Lately I've been taking the QM1 (Fresh Meadows-Wall Street) Express (operated by Queens Surface) and usually get an MCI Classic, but today we got '94 TMC RTS #323. My question is, are the Local buses used by NYCDOT Contracted companies governed. While on the LIE, 323 was cruising effortlessly at 45 MPH and we hit 55 MPH going southbound on the FDR. I also noticed this on my trip home, where I usually ride the '98-'99 Orion V CNG's in the 500 series(Suburban). Two weeks ago #411(a local bus) was running the QM1.
Thanks in advance for your answers,
Tony C.
I don't think the NYCDOT companies govern their buses. I used to ride QSC's QBx1 regularly in the late 80's/early 90's and they always could easily keep pace with traffic on the highway.
I know GBL buses were wide open because I (and a friend) got many opportunities (when we were teenagers) to push their fast buses - which at the time were their GMDD T8H-5307A's and Grumman Flxible 870's and a few of their older T6H-5305A/7A's. The fastest of their GMDD fishbowls and 870's would run right into the 70-75 MPH range. Boy were those the days.
Wayne
Liberty Lines Express buses are governed at 55 mph. Of course I have a list of buses that are not governed. There are also a few buses that are governed below 55mph. Most drivers tend to stay away from those.
Peace,
Kevin
LLE Operator
when thre x 27 was at gleason we had a whole range of governed buses. the fastest at one time was 1777. it use to get up to about 68 miles an hour. the slowest was 1768. it use to do 49mph if you were lucky
At Liberty Lines Express the slowest buses as far as takeoff and highway are concerned are 3031,3043,3068, and 3110. These buses are dangerous and shouldnt even be on the road. Watch out for these. Thankfully there are only a handful that are very bad.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
LLE Operator
When the MCI's come to the X68 will they use the Grand Central Pkwy to deadhead back to the depot? I have seen SOME X68 buses along with the Q46 LTD buses deadhead east on the Grand Central Pkwy in the morning rush only. Can those MCI's fit? I guess the X68 were on the GCP because the LIE was backed up or something. Normally, I see them on the LIE. My friend and I see the buses on the highway in the morning. Again, this is an X68 question...I know why the Q46 is on the GCP during the AM/PM rush.
If they don't fit on the GCP they can deadhead them via the Clearview and the LIE..
Thanks MIKE M for responding to my question.
I see in the pictures of RTS buses with a "white stick" or something on the roof oof the bus. When 1987 came, the TMC's did not have it. What was that white thing on top? It's on the BusTalk Pics of NYC Buses Photo Album I. All of the buses from 1981-1985 have it. I got brochures of buses with it as well. I have a brochure of bus #3609 from the Jamaica Depot being used as a Wheelchair bus. I hope somebody knows what I'm talking about.
Are you talking about the 2 way radio antenna? In the center of the roof towards the front?
Peace,
ANDEE
Is he talking about the little white cone on the roof? Thats a radio antanna(VHF-FM). All NYC buses I seen are equiped with that.
Yes, thank you SUBWAYSURF! I appreciate your answer very much as well.
Yes, that's what that was? Okay but why did they need an antenna on top of the bus? Thank you for responding to my question, ANDEE.
Because NYCT buses have 2 way radios.
During that time, the RTS's had that large fin type of antenna. I believe Renault demo 961 had the same. The Grumman's had the antennas same as the New Looks, either the small fin or the large housing box.
That design was not exclusive to the RTS. The 1968 and 1975 GMC Fishbowls used by Altoona Metro Transit (Amtran) had that same antenna.
there were different types of antenna`s on top of all buses through the 70`s and early 80`s. some had a huge square antenna. some had a thin long antenna . when they changed all the radio system`s to the now motorola system all the buses now have the little cone shaped antenna on top.
I was away for a while so do not know if this question has already been raised but the new mall being built behind starret city near the mail facility, command bus company and the b13 route with the exit/entrance from the belt pkwy is great idea but iwas wondering where there any talks about adding service out to this area similar to the type of service provided to kings plaza? I mean the 13 is there but 14, 15, and 20 are in that area as well (with the 6 an 83 a bit further off) will there be any looking into a reivising of or creating a new route
I believe the service planners are looking at extending the B14 route to the mall when it opens (not sure when that is).
David
The mall is supposed to open sometime next year but I dont think its going to happen. Besides in the B13/18 merger plans, it states that B13 would serve the mall area. The B14 would be a prime canidate for the mall extension. As someone else mentioned, the B82/83 could swing a left on Seaview and hit the back of the mall. Well see what happens......
The B-82 and B-83 will not be able to enter the mall site from Seaview Avenue unless they build a bridge over the creek from the Sewage Plant which is right next to a DEP plant. The creek goes into Jamaica Bay.
Ifi remember correctly they are building a new exit from the Belt Parkway into the mall so i doubt that you can will be able to enter from Seaview Avenue
Thank You
I stand corrected on B82/83 issue. And yes you are right about the Belt Pkwy exit. I still say extend the B14 to the mall. Right now the eastern terminus of the route is better served by the B15 and B20.
maybe they'll just have the 82 and 83 hang a left at seaview from penn to head over to the shopping center. The 15 and 20 are long shots. The 13 can come down flatlands after swinging by the spring creek center on fountain av.
I am building walkways behind station houses and between platforms on the Sea Beach route. I think that NYCTA covered the windows on the walkways because they didn't want to waste any more money fixing broken windows. I can't decide if I want to build the walkways with or without windows. Jeffrey.
Tomorrow, myself, Thurston, BMTman, Da Wheel Flange and several others are heading to the Amherst Rail Society's model train show at the Exposition Grounds.
Although primarily for trains, there will be at least one bus modeler there as a vendor.
Weather is supposed to be cold but sunny and dry. Great driving weather.
Will post a report on either Sunday or Monday
It used to be each bus had a number on the roof. They are no longer there. Why? In these times, I would expect them to be there.
Nowadays most police helicopters have cameras which could zoom in on the numbers place elsewhere. That's what they told us at the agency where I work, as repainted buses don't get roof numbers.
I guess they don't care about the busfan who stays in an apartment overlooking the street. It used to be I could busfan and identify the buses from where I stayed. That location also allowed me to take this photo, one of the honorable mentions in the photo contest held here.
And just WHY should they go through all that expense just to "care for a busfan" ???????
Trsut me, the bus companies/transit agencies do NOT exist just for busfans.......
To which system do you refer? Numbers are only decaled onto the roofs of buses if the customer so requests. The one exception I know is that New Flyer used to put numbers on the roofs of all buses, but I don't think they do that anymore by default.
None of the EMTA New Flyer Low-Floors have roof numbers. No current EMTA (Erie) or PAT (Pittsburgh) buses have roof numbers and don't believe any ever did.
I was refferring to MTA New York City Transit.
All of SEPTA's NABI, Neoplan artic, ElDorado, and New Flyer fleets have fleet numbers on the roof. Some of the 1988-1989 Neos also have these numbers on the roof, but not too many of the older Neos have them. As far as I know, none of the cutaway buses have fleet numbers on their roofs.
DART First State and NJ Transit also have fleet numbers on the roofs of their buses.
I check the R2 Warminster and R7 Trenton and I notice something that on the route map on R2 at Warminster next to the map show the 22 and Warminster RUSH and the same thing with the R7 at Levittown exept it's Levittown RUSH.
I got a question on this.
1. How long these lines have been in service?
2. Is it run by SEPTA?
3. What buses run on there?
I have no idea about when this service is supposed to start. The routes are being managed by the Bucks County TMA (the same people who operate the Doylestown DART minibus service).
SEPTA is not involved in these services, as far as I know.
The buses used will most likely be cutaway buses owned by the contractor, whomever that may be.
I was wondering if anyone knew exactly what was being built by the mta over by cozine near lousiana avenue near the B6 route and what will it be used for??
An Iron Shop.
A Bee-Line Neoplan (going in the direction of Valentine Av),...#505 at Sedgwick Av/Fordham Road, probably coming from 242nd-Van Courtlandt or somewhere, like many BL buses do...with an MTA NYCT NFI D60 artic on the side there...two for one (sorta)! Have fun!
BTW, #505, #522, and #50x were on the 60, with #5xx on the 61 today...don't remember the numbers...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...Cruising the Northeast Fare-Free!
Nice, when I saw the Neoplans while riding 7560 it took me a few seconds to figure out that it was a new Neoplan. Not much has changed! If the destination sign wasn't like that, I'd need a magnifying glass!
saw 526 testing on the 42
Nice shot. I'd guess that it's likely to be deadheading from the depot to go into service on the 60 or 61.
Wayne
The 61 just see's only Flxibles and sometimes Orions if you get lucky getting one on the 61
No, the 61 sees Neoplan artic nowadays...along with Flxibles and the occasional Orion.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...Cruising the Northeast Fare-Free!
Here's a topic that's not like my others. Has anyone ever fell asleep on a bus, and missed their stop? I seen it happen to a lot of people, and it's pretty sad when the B/O has to get up at the last stop and see the person their still sleeping in the back when everyone already got off. I fell half-asleep once, but it was only for 15 minutes(maybe because of the cig I had that day). I try hard to avoid this from happening, because of leaving yourself exposed, where you can get robbed. This is even worse in the subway. Anyone ever had this experience before?
-Jay
I've fallen asleep on Greyhound buses before, which is nice because it makes a trip go SO much faster. As far as transit buses, I have fallen asleep on them before, but my internal clock/instincts or whatever you wanna call it have alwyays made me wake up before my stop. I have never missed a stop because I have been asleep.
I do have a funny sleep story though while we are on the topic. About two years ago I was riding a PAT bus up in Pittsburgh. It was the same trip I rode every Sunday afternoon. On the first half of the day, which was the 500 Highland Park - Bellevue, he picked up a guy in Oakland heading towards West View Plaza. The guy sat down amongst the other 20 or so passengers. When the op got to West View, the trip was over and he signed the bus up GARAGE and took the bus back to the division, ate lunch and then took the same bus back into town for an outbound on the 12A North Hills Shopper. Halfway to Showcase North (the 12A terminus) a guy comes up to the front of the bus and asks when are we getting to West View Plaza? It turns out this guy boarded the bus in Oakland when it was a 500, and slept through the entire rest of the 500 inbound, the 500 off-road back to the garage, an hour lunch break, the 12A on-road to Downtown Pittsburgh and half a trip on the 12A. Now that's what I call "deep sleep!!!!"
If I do recall correctly this all happened in an Orion V that was retrofitted with a Detroit Series 50. These particular Orion's are not very quiet at all and tend to vibrate a lot, so how this guy was able to get so comfortable to the point of sleeping for almost 3 hrs is quite amazing. How he went undetected for so long is interesting too!
>>> Has anyone ever fell asleep on a bus, and missed their stop? <<<
Who hasn't seen the "commuter doze" on transit buses? Particularly on the early morning 5-7:00 A.M. buses. Some kind of internal timer usually wakes the person up before their stop. Last week I was on the last leg toward home (the third bus) which was a 55 minute ride and dozed on and off. I was awake two stops before mine, but dozed off again. The B/O pulled over at my stop which was one before the last stop (there were only three passengers on the bus then), and looked over at me and said "Don't you get off here?" That woke me up and I was able to get off without missing my stop.
Tom
I haven't but a few weeks ago, I saw someone miss their stop because they were talking to someone else. They had to get off at the next stop and take the return trip back, which had luckily for them, not passed by yet.
I've seen people fall asleep and their head leans against the yellow stop strip, triggering the bell. Sometimes this will happen a few times until the driver starts getting annoyed and finds out who is ringing the bell but not getting off.
I try my best not to do so, but if I do, it's only for a few minutes. I never miss my stop though. The SEPTA Neoplans (particularly suburban) are really comfortable, and therefore are sleepable. The new buses (including NABIs, although they aren't particularly new) aren't so comfortable, especially the Neoplan Artics, which have rock hard seats (the NABIs have the tiniest bit of padding). El Dorados are sorta sleepable, but the slant of the windows and the height of the windows, which are really low, don't really give you that much comfort.
It's very easy on long-distance coaches with front-facing padded seats. I'd always sleep on the way from Atlantic City- at least until they started running those damned loud, bad movies, which made it impossible to sleep or read.
It's also possible on transit buses with plastic seats. One day after high school I was in a front-facing rear seat of a 1963 3900-series Fishbowl on a Flushing-bound Q17. The last thing I saw was the strip mall on Kissena between Laburnum and Holly. Next thing, I was all alone parked on 38th Avenue between Prince and Main, which was the relief point at the time. I made my way for the front doors as the driver was coming back from his break and started to explain what happened. He had no reaction.
Shouldn't the drivers CHECK the bus for sleeping passengers at the last stop?
they should and on occassion i pulled in with sleeper on board.
They usually do, at least on the LI Buses I see.
Delieveries are about to start flowing like water again folks.....
1) 100 New MCI D4501 Cruisers will be in around June (#2825-2924)
2) 50-56 New Orion 07.501 CNG Low Floors will be in around the fall and assigned to Jackie Gleason (#7560-7615)
3) 260 New New Flyer D60HF "Galaxy" Articulateds will begin coming in around the fall at a rate of 20 per month (#5510-5769), And No none of these will see Brooklyn Service & Queens is unknown at this point.
Keeping you posted...Signing off!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
That a very good news & look to me like Orion Low Floor CNG #7560 will be heading to Jackie Gleason Soon.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT
looks like the 8400's and 8500's and JG are leaving. Gentlemen, its picture time with the JG depot decals on them. and the controversey is: what depot should get them? I believe it should be 25 for UP and 25 for FP. Unless u want to get all cocky and send all the 8500's to UP to remove the 4700's(and have a few estras)
FP should get all of them to get rid of the 4700 Series RTS's that have been running to the ground and so as their older buses.
FP and other depots have lots of older buses that should be replaced well before the 4700's should.
FP should definitely get rid of the 3900's, and NEVER, EVER receive any more. I'm still hoping for the 9100's at KB and 126St. to come here to Ridgewood.
-Jay
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches Professional Motorcoach Operator
www.transitalk.com
Saturday Night, 7:30 PM unless otherwise specified in the subjectBusTalkers are also welcome!
Chatham Square is a unique oppurtunity to hold LIVE chats with other siderodromophiliacs (railfans) and busfans. Everyone is welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun-filled evening.
ARE YOU READY FOR CHATHAM SQUARE???
Just go to http://www.subtalklive.com and join in. IRC users, connect to channel #subtalklive on the DALNET network (http://www.dal.net for more information).
WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU!
Saturday Night, 7:30 PM unless otherwise specified in the subjectBusTalkers are also welcome!
Chatham Square is a unique oppurtunity to hold LIVE chats with other siderodromophiliacs (railfans) and busfans. Everyone is welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun-filled evening.
ARE YOU READY FOR CHATHAM SQUARE???
Just go to http://www.subtalklive.com and join in. IRC users, connect to channel #chathamsquare on the DALNET network (http://www.dal.net for more information).
WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU!
I took a trip to the Walt Whitman Mall today.
But I'll start with HART. I saw Huntington Area Rapid Transit buses at Walt Whitman, and one bus really caught my eye. This was an Orion numbered 303 but did not look like today's Orions at all. It looked like an older Orion model, and it looked in pretty good shape. I like the classic styling, and it looked and sounded pretty good. Sounded like a 6V-92 engine. And boy am I glad I brought my camera with me, I took 3 pictures of it. They will be posted soon at
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/railsandtrains
I always thought HART just had Gilligs. Saw some SCT Gilligs as well, one sounded like it was repowered with Series 50.
In other news, the bus stop has been moved once again. This location I feel is better. It is right in back of Lord and Taylor, and is no more than a minute walk from the Lord and Taylor entrance. Still no shelters of any kind and poor signage, but at least it is not too far from the entrance. Hopefully the mall will eventually build a permanent bus stop, like Roosevelt Field.
Also saw LI Bus number 186 broke down on Woodbury road heading west, there was a maint. truck on scene.
Did you took pics of the SCT Orions?
I didn't see any SCT Orions.
Those Orions are what are known as "01.50x" series, the "x" a number from 1 through 9 which denotes length/features. They are the older Orions and are no longer made. Many smaller cities got them, as well as airport shuttle operators. (The present MTA NYC Bus and MTA LI Bus Orions are model 05.501's.....the 02's were ugly paratransit types, 03's were articulated, 04's were the "Peoplemover" vehicles for Niagra Parks Commission. There are 06.xxx and 07.xxx models as well.)
TMC (who made the RTS's for awhile) was licensed by Orion to make them; the TMC units were known as 'TMC Citycruisers". The way to tell a TMC-built bus, for the most part (but not always) is that they had a single-leaf front door that rotated open.
I wonder how old those HART Orion 1.5's are?
It looked in pretty good shape, I guess it should come as no suprise the bus seemed like it was made of better materials than the more recent models of Orions.
I miss the manual signs, they always WORKED!!
The Hart system started about 20 years ago by the Town of Huntington taking over one route from, IIRC, Northport Bus Company.
In the takeover, Huntington got NBC's 3 Fishbowls that were renumbered 101,102 & 103.
They then got Federal money and purchased 11 30-foot Flxible New Looks to start service. Numbers 201-211.
The Fishbowls were replaced by the Orion I's numbered 301,302,303.
I would guess that these vehicles are about 10 years old. Perhaps someone has production lists on the internet and you can have an exact answer as to date of acquistion.
The Flxibles were replaced by Gilligs numbered 401 + + + and by two orders of Orion V's. 501 +++ and 601 ++++.
There are also several Airport Shuttle type vehicles for the Senior Citizen and Handicapped service. Don't know those numbers.
The buses are in good shape since the roads are generally well kept and there is almost no severe bumper to bumper traffic.
One of those fishbowls is still in existence. Saw it in a scrap yard not far from HART about 3 years ago. Part of the mid section had been chopped away (don't ask me why) and it seemed as if it had some sort of use at the yard.
Also, 210 (HART's last 1977 Flxible) is being privately preserved.
Can you tell where the two buses are? Would love to get some pictures of them.
BTW technically the last 1977 Flxible is number 211 since the order was 201 - 211.
Is MTA also going to do tseting on the Orion7 Hybrid like the Orion7 CNG is doing right now? If so, What route is it going to be tested on?
If anything, like The Orion 07.501 CNG testing, the MTA is gonna pick a line and depot for the 45-day test.
At this point, the Test Route and Depot has not been selected, if history holds true, it'll be a depot that'll never see this type of bus, my like the CNG Orion 7 @ Gun Hill.
Info may or may not be posted at the Hybrid test when it is recieved, until then........
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches Professional Motoracoach Operator
www.transitalk.com
While I only can think of the pseudo-RTS/Flxible of Midtown Madness (as well as the Nova LFS add-on), and the Sorta-Fishbowls in Crazy Taxi and Artics in Crazy Taxi 2, I'm sure there are others who can add some good bus sights to be seen in the many video games out there- I have to be missing some!
I have the sim "Traffic Giant" that uses a number of european and british bus designs.
Three front views: 1) at Co-op City, 2) at Norwood-206 St/Bainbridge Av, and 3) at 192nd St-Kingsbridge Road, Fordham...all taken today, courtesy of the one and only, Cleanairbus!
Have fun!
This is the one at Co-op City...
...this is the one at Norwood--206 St/Bainbridge Av...
...and this was taken at Kingsbridge/192nd!
Three fronts, three different locations, all three terminals of the Bx28 line! Next...three backs...maybe!!!!!!!!!
BTW, IF ANYONE ON THIS BOARD HAS ANY ORION VII PICS THAT YOU WANT DISPLAYED IN A GALLERY, PLEASE E-MAIL ME AT CARLWAL@HOTMAIL.COM. YOUR COOPERATION IS GREATLY APPRECIATED! NOTE: ALL ORION VII PHOTOS WILL BE PLACED IN MY ORION VII GALLERY AND GIVEN CREDIT FOR.
Here is a link to that gallery...have fun!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...Cruising the Northeast Fare-Free!
Here are the back views as I promised...
Three rear views..same three locations, respectively...Have fun!
BTW, AGAIN...IF ANY BUSTALKER HAS ANY PICS THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN MY ORION VII GALLERY, PLEASE E-MAIL THEM TO ME AT CARLWAL@HOTMAIL.COM AND YOU WILL BE GIVEN CREDIT FOR ALL OF THEM. THANK YOU GUYS!!!!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...Cruising the Northeast Fare-Free!
1. How many Orions do Frederick TransIT have?
2. What other buses do Frederick TransIT have?
Thanks! :)
I was riding on an LAMTA bus last Wednesday afternoon when a call came over the radio advising all Division 9 drivers with CNG buses to stop at another division and refuel before returning to their depot because Division 9 was out of fuel. Is this something that happens in other big bus operations?
Tom
Yes, it sometimes does. The big problem with CNG systems is not that they are out of fuel, but the pumps might be out of service temporarily, etc. Sometimes the supplier's lines are down for maintenance, things like that. Or maybe the division involved had to do a maintenance project on the CNG fueling system.
and also ... the division 9 cng fueling station is not fully functional - yet.
I had occasion to observe two B/O's with what I thought were unsafe driving postures. What really surprised me was that I saw this on two different buses, one right after the other. In both cases the buses were Neoplan AN440s, and both B/Os were females who were slightly built, probably weighing less than 120 lbs. Each seemed to have the driver's seat set so far back and so low that their legs seemed to be extended with very little bend in the knees to reach the pedals which were being operated by ankle movement pivoting on the heel rather than pressure from the knee. The steering wheel was horizontal, and each B/O was holding it at the six o'clock position with one hand and steering in a tiller fashion. Her arm was extended so far that she could not reach past the five to seven o'clock positions on the wheel without leaning forward. I have to admit that both operators handled their buses well, but the positions looked too relaxed to me, like they were not ready to respond immediately if necessary to an emergency situation. Any comments from B/Os?
Tom
if they looked to comfortable maybe they could react better than what you think. what would you rather have, a bus driver all stiff or nervous or one that looks comfortable and in total control of his/her vehicle. remember, buses of this day and age are equiped with power steering . if you described to me the posture back in the 70`s on a fishbowl or a flex then i would say you should be concerned. as long as the drivers are alert and are being defensive i see no problem with looking comfortable
Most people would call that unsafe driving, but talking from being a Bus Operator, you have to realize that the "taught" way to drive a bus in VERY uncomfortable, I find that I drive with me seat back leaned back, the seat raised, I usually drive with either my hand at the 3 o'clock position and the other hand on the side dash panel OR one hand at the 9 o'clock position and the other resting on the register.
Everyone has their own way of being comfortable behind the wheel.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I agree with Trevor....the recommended position is VERY uncomfortable, even though it LOOKS the best. I'm the same way when I drive -- I feel I am in complete control with one hand doing most of the work and the other resting on the panel (on RTS's)....on the D40LF's on my morning run on the freeway (in HOV lanes) I'm usually using my right hand and the left is resting on the dash to the left -- but when the freeway starts jamming (and the HOV lane running, it isn't separate by a divider) both hands are on the wheel just in case some fool decides to jump in front of the bus from a dead stop!
Heheheh, the most "unnatural" looking position used to be prevalent on the GM old looks at SCRTD. Drivers would have the seat all the way back, all the way down to the floor...the back panel would be tilted as far back as it could. All you'd see peering over the bottom of the windshield was the driver's eyes!!! (Bus fans developed a name for this position, but I would rather not post it and offend anyone as it was sort of a racial thing...)
How the hell they steered those old looks, I could never figure. They took three men and a little boy to steer normally, without the power steering.
i drove fishbowls, blitzes and flex`s in the early 80`s. working at gleason(which was the last depot to receive the newer buses with power steering)we only knew manual steering. to me, i never had a problem with it. the whole secret was technique. you could be the weakest person in the world to steer them if you used the right technique.
In my opinion, there might be a safety factor when sitting so low in the seat, and so far back, especially if you're shorter than average (example given of the fully-extended legs), and that would be the inability to see a small child, possibly a school kid, as s/he walks across the very front of the bus (as many do).
Personally, I sit as high as possible in the seat, adjusted slightly towards the rear, with the horizontal adjusted as 'flat' as possible (not arching backwards). This provides me complete control over the bus, with complete visibility on both sides, and the front. My left index finger usually steers us, while my right arm relaxes on the grab bar (completely in violation of NYCTA rules). When I switch hands, my left arm is on the console.
I find it extremely difficult and uncomfortable to operate a bus with 2 hands (as is evident on my biannual review, where my instructor usually says, "Okay, we're done, can we GET GOING now"??)
:-)
>>> I sit as high as possible in the seat, adjusted slightly towards the rear, with the horizontal adjusted as 'flat' as possible <<<
That sounds like what my father, who was a pre power steering truck driver, taught me was the best driving position. He was 5'9" tall, and always insisted on additional seat and back cushions when driving his private car, and used to mutter about little old men (or women) peering through the spokes of their steering wheels.
Tom
For me, it's most comfortable and affords the best safety because I feel I'm in complete control of the vehicle, as well as have the best possible line of sight in and around my bus.
Was out near Trenton and Philidelphia last night. Caught sights of lots of buses. Anyone who rides NJ Transit and wants to see Flexible Metros-the Hamilton Station is the place to go. The garage is right there and i did see 2 Flexible Metro buses there(one was #NGV2)-I got off at Trenton and did see Flexible Metros, 30 foot NOVABUS and the 30 foot SEPTA BUS that people here on Bus Talk have mentioned(kinda small).
When i got to PA, saw the Neoplans(which 2 of them were broke down on Broad Street)-and lots of Low Floor Buses. Most of the buses were on Broad near Market Street-apparently doing the El Shuttle Line.
One Question i do have though. When riding NJ Transit, i know there is a bus garage past Newark. Used to see NOVABUSES and Grummans parked in it. Last nigh i passed by it and saw nothing in it and the placed looked closed. This isnt a NJ Transit gargage. Any idea who it is and is the bus garage still in use?
The garage along the NJT corridor was for the South Orange Avenue Bus Line. After Coach USA bought them out they split up the services operated by them and moved the Newark-South Orange-Livingston Mall route to One Bus on Frelinghuysen Avene and the Central Avenue Jersey City route to Trans Hudson Express in Jersey City.
I think the "30-foot SEPTA bus" you allude to is the Eldorado National bus they've started using on certain routes. I first noticed them in service near Route 422 last November on a suburban route. I this is the first time I've seen this manufacture of bus used in severe-duty transit service; I've only seen them before in commercial applications like rental-car shuttles and the like. Should be interesting to see how they hold up . . .
C
Several large systems use ElDorados in revenue service. San Diego and Denver come to mind, as does LADOT (not to be confused with LACMTA).
Are you talking about the bus garage that's south of Newark Penn Station adjacent to the Northeast Corridor tracks? If so, I believe that garage is a Coach USA/ONE Bus facility.
Speaking of NJT buses, what are they going to do now that the Roswell plant isn't going to produce RTSs anymore? I know they were planning to get a lot of RTSs to replace the METROs.
NJT was planning to purchase some RTS Suburbans, but there was no official contract to the best of my knowledge. My guess is that NJT goes with a different manufacturer. I don't believe that any order to replace the Flxible Metro Bs was placed before the news about Roswell broke out. I had heard that either NJT was going to rehab the existing Metro Bs or go with another company (possibly Neoplan - it'll be interesting to see a single door, two-axle Neo Suburban in NJT colors).
ENY's 8121 now joins the elite club. Spotted her E.98St on the B15 heading to JFK Airport.
all 8000`s through 8564 will eventually be repowered to meet federal emissions standards.
I saw a few from FP in recent days which I have not seen previously: 8001, 8139, 8157.
Went to the Amherst Rail Society train show up in West Springfield Ma. yesterday. Manic because it was a 330 mile round trip in one day.
Left 223rd st and Northern blvd at 7:15 AM and arrived at 9;45AM. As soon as we entered the first building (of three used for the show) I and my friend were met by Thurston and BMTman. Thurston bought me the Jimson RTS model # 737 in Queens Surface colors. He also gave me a draft of the History of QSC that he is working on.
The show was primarily for model railroading but there was very little in the way of model buses that could be used on lay-outs. Several vendors had a couple of Corgi's but not much to mention. There was one vendor (B.Rooster on e-bay) who was selling buses and cars. He had the Greyhound friction Fishbowl in the two colors and the TA look-a-like. He didn't have the Straight-back RTS friction one either.
B. Rooster told me that an "odd-lot" place in a local shopping center was selling an articulated toy bus. I found the store and found the toy. It was selling for $4.99. It was about 18 inches long with the according fold in the middle. The front was like an RTS and the sides like New Flyer. Three doors and was labeled "Dragon Express", which led me to believe they were made in China although the box didn't say where it was manufactured. Between both the red and blue colors looking like crap and the bulikiness of the bus (over 18 inches long) I passed. Anyone ever see this toy ?
did u buy the bus and if so can you send me the picture?
I bought two RTS Jimson's at the show. One from Thurston decaled in QSC colors, the other in Boston MTA colors.
if you are referring to the Chinese articulated toy ----No I didn't. Both colors looked like cheap crap and since they were about 18 inches long I have no place to show it off.
how do i get thurston to do a rts bus for me in the paint shceme?
Ask him, maybe? ;)
His BusTalk handle is Mr_T.
--C.
Whoops, had that backwards. His BT handle is "Thurston" but he signs his posts with the cryptic "Mr^T" appellation.
=)
C
Hi all, it's that guy you are talking about ... was wondering why the back of my neck was itchy < G >
As many of you know I work for QSC. They realy don't sell these buses to the general public. Al (Hart Bus) is a colleague of mine from Shoreline at Branford and asked me to do him a favor.
If you've just got to have one, send me a private e-mail & I'll try to accomidate.
Now as for my signature, it's a "smiley". If you've been emailing as long as I have you'll know that there were a lot of "shorthand" used, e.g. B4, 4U, b/c, LOL, BRB, IMHO, RSN, RTDM (read the dam manual)
I've had folks missunderstand a comment or two of mine, i.e. they thought I meant it in a mean way. My smiley says I don't.
- grin < G >
- normal :-)
- no expression :-|
- sad :-(
- wink ;-)
- glasses 8-)
- sun glasses B-)
- scubadiver (:)-)
- mine is a variation :^)
I just missed you; I met up with Thurston, BMTman, Todd Glickman, and Danny Cohen at 10:30! I got there a little earlier than expected, so I ventured into downtown Springfield before the show to shoot PVTA and Peter Pan buses. I was glad I made the side trip -- I managed to stumble upon the remains of the GM Futurliner that Peter Pan used for parts, sitting in an open lot on Carew St with three wrecked Atlantean double deckers.
When were the Bx49 and Bx56 routes begun and discontinued, and the streets it operated on?
There has been a lot of recent conversation here about some depot assignments. Here is a list of SOME depot assignments between 1960 and 1987
JULY 1960-OPENING OF FRESH POND DEPOT AND CLOSING OF WEST 5TH STREET
AND BERGEN STREET(ELECTRIC BUS)
EAST NEW YORK-B10,B12,B14,B22,B25,B40,B45,B47,B56,B60,B65
FIFTH AVENUE-B11,B15,B16,B23,B33,B35,B37,B63,B67,B69,B70,B71,B75,B77
FLATBUSH-B2,B3,B7,B17,B31,B41,B42,B44,B46,B49
ULMER PARK-B1,B4,B5,B6,B8,B9,B21,B34,B36,B64,B68,B74
FRESH POND-B13,B20,B26,B38,B52,B53,B54,B55,B57,B58
CROSSTOWN-B18,B24/29.B39,B48,B59,B61,B62
Notes:B10 is now current B15,B22 is now currentQ24,B24/29 is now current B24,B53 is now currentQ54,B55 is now currentQ55,b56 is now current Q56,B58 is now Q58,B59 is now Q59. No B78,B83 or express routes B5 now part of B82,B43 and B62 are now B43,B34 now part of B1
NOVEMBER-1978-B21 AND B34 DISCONTINUED
EAST NEW YORK-B10,B12,B14,B22,B25,B40,B45,B47,Q49,B50,B56,B60,B65,B83
FIFTH AVE-B15,B16,B19,B23,X25,X27,B33,B35,B37,B63,B67,B69,B70,B71,B75,B77
FLATBUSH-B2,B7,B11,B17,B31,B41,B42,B44,B46,B49,B78
ULMER PARK-B1,B3,B4,B5,B6,B8,B9,X25,X28,X29,B36,B64,B68,B74
FRESH POND-B13,B20,B26,B38,B52,B53,B54,B55,B57,B58
CROSSTOWN-B18,B24,B30,B39,B48,B59,B61,B62
NOVEMBER 1981 AFTER CROSSTOWN WAS CLOSED
EAST NEW YORK-B10,B12,B14,B20,B22,B25,B40,B45,B47,Q49,B50,B56,B60,B65,B83
FIFTH AVENUE-B15,B16,B19,B23,X25,X27,B33,B35,B37,B61,B63,B67,B69,B70,B71,B75,B77
FLATBUSH-B2,B7,B11,B17,B31,B41,B42,B44,B46,B48,B49,B78
ULMER PARK-B1,B3,B4,B5,B6,B8,B9,X25,X28,X29,B36,B64,B68,B74
FRESH POND-B13,B18,B24,B26,B30,B38,B39,B52,B53,B54,B55,B57,B58,B59
Note-x25 was split between 5th Ave and Ulmer Park and Q49 was split between ENY and Jamaica(Queens Division)
Hope this information helps you
Thank You
Sorry I left off the JFK Express Shuttle which was assigned to East New York for its entire span 1978 to 1990
Thank You
If I am not mistaken,I think the present day Q72(now operated by CTC)was operated out of ENY when it was changed from a streetcar to a bus rt. as the B72 until it was changed to FLU as the Q72 before being sold off to Triboro.I remember a post about this a yr /yr and ahalf ago.
The B-72 was transferred out of Brooklyn at that time. It was assigned I belive to Crosstown Depot prior to the transfer
Transfer was July 1960
Thank You
and who here knows the electric bus routes prior to 1960. i believe there were 6 routes.
I know that the B57 ran operated as a trackless trolley.You can get more info on this site under New York City Buses -they have a subheading for trackless trolley operations
I remember riding 2 as a kid: the B48 & B62 (now primarily the B43).
At the end they were the following:
1-B-47 Tompkins Avenue
2-B-48 Lorimer Street
3-B-57 Flushing Avenue
4-B-62 Graham Avenue
5-B-65 Bergen Street
The B-45 St Johns Place route was converted to buses in 1959
Thank You
the b15 in 5th avenue for those that don`t know left hansen place to north on flatbush over the manhattan bridge to lafayette and canal street.and then back. the last few years of its existence it was not a picked run . there were 2 extra`s 1 in the morning one at night.
Let's see who can come up with this brain tease...All in the name of fun, of course. Using an unlimited metrocard, and using Tottenville, Staten Island, which LOCAL buses would connect you to all 5 boros of NY?
Here's the catch.
1.You cannot include an express bus for travel from point A to point B.
2.You have to include the Rockaways in your travel plans.
3.You have to end your trip in Riverdale in the Bronx.
4.You can include private bus companies (ex. Jamaica, Green Bus...etc.)
Good luck!
1-S78 transfer to S-79 Staten Island
2-S-79 transfer to B-63 Staten island to Brooklyn
3-B-63 transfer to either B-41 or B-67 Brooklyn
4-B-41 or B-67 transfer to B-26 or B-52 Brooklyn
5-B-26 or B-52 transfer to Q-55 Brooklyn to Queens
6-Q-55 transfer to Q-11 Queens
7-Q-11 transfer to Q-21 Queens to Rockaways
8-Q-21 transfer to Q-22 Rockaways
9-Q-22 transfer to Q-113 Rockaways to Jamaica
10-Q-113 transfer to Q-44 Queens to Bronx
11-Q-44 transfer to Bx9 Bronx to Riverdale
12-Bx9 transfer to Bx7 Bronx to Manhattan
13-Bx7 transfer to M-100 Manhattan
14-M-100 transfer to M-103 Manhattan
15-M-103 transfer to B-51 Manhattan to Brooklyn
16-B-51 transfer to B-37 Brooklyn
17-B-37 transfer to B-63 Brooklyn
18-B-63 transfer to S-79 Brooklyn to Staten Island
19-S-79 transfer to S-78 Staten Island
How's that
You could have used the B54 from downtown Brooklyn to Ridgewood for the Q55 as well.
well done.now i have another question . how much would that whole trip cost at the fare being a 1.50 before the inseption of the metrocard?
The trip above would have cost $15.00 without a MetroCard.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
you win the prize. but that is amazing how much money one saves with the metrocard
Starting in Tottenville, Staten Island:
1) Take the S78 or S59(depending of time of day) to Hylan Blvd. & Richmond Avenue.
2) Transfer to the S79 and take to 86th Street Terminal in Brooklyn.
3) Board the B64 Coney Island bound to 25th & Bath Avenues.
4) Transfer to the B3 and take going east.
5) Transfer to the Q35 (GBL) at Avenue U and Flatbush Avenue going to Rockaways.
6) Transfer to the Q22 (GBL) at B. 147th & Rockaway Beach Blvd.
7) Transfer to the Q53 (TCC) at B. 116th & Rockaway Beach Blvd.
8) Transfer to the Q72 (TCC) at Junction & Queens Blvds. going North.
9) Transfer to the M60 at 94th Street & 23rd Avenue going to Manhattan.
10)Transfer to the M100 at 125th & Amsterdam going North.
11)Transfer to the Bx7 or Bx20 at W. 215th and Broadway going to Riverdale - it depends where you want to go from here.
To go to Riverdale/246th via Henry Hudson Parkway, use the Bx20.
To go to Riverdale/263rd via Riverdale Avenue, use the Bx7.
Takes into account all criteria listed.
Good idea but the reason i did not use the Q-53 was because its an extra fare service even though its not an express route.
How about the Q-21 transfer to Q-11 and then Q-38 and then Q-72
Thank You
The Q53 is an express route (even though it doesn't travel to Manhattan) and it is not an extra fare route.
he said dont use express buses. the Q53 is a express route.
According to the fare listing at the TCC web site, the Q53 is apparently considered a Limited-Stop local service as opposed to an express service. As such, I would imagine an unlimited use MetroCard would be valid on that line.
you dont even need to transfer to the Q22. that transfer is pointless
lets see:
S78 to S53 to Brooklyn
b64 to B3-take B3 to Flatbush av-Kings Plaza-connect to Q35
Q35 to Q21-take Q21 from 116th St to Liberty Av-Cross Bay Blvd.
Q11 to Q60-Q60 to 60th St-2nd Av-walk 1 block to M15 on first Av
M15 to M100-connect with M100 at last stop on M15 route
M100 to bX7-bx7 connects with M100 from 168th-bway
not that hard ;-)
lets see:
S78 to S53 to Brooklyn-transfer to b64 at 86th st-4th av
b64 to B3-take B3 to Flatbush av-Kings Plaza-connect to Q35
Q35 to Q21-take Q21 from 116th St to Liberty Av-Cross Bay Blvd.
Q11 to Q60-Q60 to 60th St-2nd Av-walk 1 block to M15 on first Av
M15 to M100-connect with M100 at last stop on M15 route
M100 to bX7-bx7 connects with M100 from 168th-bway
not that hard ;-)
s78 to clove road
s53 to 4 avenue
b63 to court street
b51 to city hall
m103 to 60st
Q60 to Jamica
q44 to bronx
estimated time 5-6 hours
s78 to clove road
s53 to 4 avenue
b64 to coney island
b36 to avenue z
b44 to flatbush avenue
q35 to beach 116 street
q22 to crossbay
q21 to rackaway blvd
q11 to metropoliiation avb
q54 to bridge
b39 to allen street
m15 to 125 street
bx 15 to fordan plaza
bx 9 to 262st
You can transfer from the Q-35 to Q-21 at Beach 116th Street
OK, here goes...
From Tottenville
S78 to Clove Road
S53 or S79 to 86th Street and 5th Avenue
B63 to 60th Street and 5th Ave
B9 to Flatbush Avenue
Q35 to Jacob Riis Park
Q22 to Far Rockaway
Q113 to Jamaica
Q44 to West Farms
Bx9 to Riverdale (the stop at 225th & Broadway is in Manhattan)
Mark
You guys know your stuff...I might just try this trip myself (on the weekend, of course)
S78 to Richmond Av-Hylan Blvd., then
S79 to 4th Av. & 86th St. Bklyn, then
B64 to Bath & 25th Avs., then
B3 to Flatbush Av-Av U, then
Q35 (Green Bus) to B. 149th St & Rockaway Beach Blvd. Rockaways-Queens, then
Q22 (Green Bus) to B. 20th St & Seagirt Blvd., then
Q113 (Jamaica Bus) to Archer Av & Parsons Blvd., then
Q20A\Q20B\Q44 to Archer Av & Sutphin Blvd., then
Q60 (Green Bus) to 48th St & Queens Blvd., then
Q32 to 60th St & 3rd Av. Manhattan, then
M101 to Bway & 168th St., then
Bx7 to 263rd St., Riverdale
N21 was late to Flushing again. So as the bus finally comes, I hear eeerrrrwww and then quiet, the Series 50 CNG engine stalled as it pulled up to my stop (yup the new 300s are turning out to be pieces of junk?)
So the driver got it restarted and I boarded. He said he was late because the bus originally assigned to him couldn't make it out of the depot (broke down).
Fortunately it made it to Great Neck where I got off and thanked the driver, and wished him luck. I really feel for you LI Bus drivers and riders. It seems those CNG's just keep breaking down.
But if CNG was this bad how come I don't see Queens Surface or NYCTA's Gleason depot having these problems?
Again it probably boils down to maintainance, as LI Bus has hired Homer Simpson to be put in charge of keeping the buses running.
Still I think diesel is a better choice. Diesel engines have a nice strong idle and have a better track record (plus I like the way they sound better).
All the envirofreaks need to stop their meddling. A diesel bus creates alot less pollution than 30 SUV's. To me that is good enough.
>>I hear eeerrrrwww and then quiet, the Series 50 CNG engine stalled as it pulled up to my stop (yup the new 300s are turning out to be pieces of junk?)<<
Gee, you have a real hardon for Cummins engines these days. I hope you didn't buy stock in Cummins, if so sell it. I hear Enron stock is dirt cheap!
Old Ralph Kramden complained about freezing from the cold and dying from the heat as well as taciturn passengers on his bus routes. But that didn't stop him from wearing a fur hat with a tail and sneaking out the kitchen window to go bowling !
What if he didn't retire and still was driving today and had to deal with the CNG phenomenom ? He probably would still come home and fight with Alice and conspire with Norton on another get rich quick scheme.....refueling CNG buses with methane gas from the nearby sewer! Of course with Norton being a sewer worker that would be a conflict of interest. But Ralphy boy has dollar signs in his eyes of the non stop refueling a day after St.Patrick's day and a result of those corn beef and cabbage dinners. If the depot isn't in a Irish neighborhood, perhaps a local White Castle will keep those CNGs purring.
Now what does all this have to do with what you're saying ? I don't know, let's junk all the diesel buses and string up wire and bring back trackless !
Bill "Newkirk"
The series 50 CNG is a Detroit Diesel product, not Cummins.
It seems the LIB breakdowns have no bias for the new or older CNG buses lately.
It must be the maintainance. It seems all the LI Bus CNG's develop what I call the "LI Bus groove", when the bus slows acceleration momentarilty then picks up again.
The QSC buses which are CNG run fine, and are much smoother and faster than the LIB ones.
Now what I should do is ride the JG Orion CNG's. I know they are not many, but they do use the Cummins L10G. Interesting to compare to the LIB Cummins buses.
I have a hunch they run fine.
From my observations I conclude that while CNG needs more TLC, the breakdowns at LI Bus are the result of poor maintainance due to the bare bones budget LI Bus is on. A solution to the problem is to create a gas tax in Nassau county to pay for better funding for LI Bus, as well as a new luxury car tax that will be applied to auto purchases above $40,000.
THE cng orion`s at gleason are no bargain . i have stalled many times in the middle of intersections, coming out of bus stops and in other instances also. when running these buses are fast and run real good. but they do have lots of problems.
Yeah that's the Cummins L10G. I guess that's why they don't make the engine anymore.
Anyone with experience with newer Cummins CNG engines? Are they just as unreliable?
How are the New Flyer CNG's working out at JG?
Let's just say that we hope JG retains it's 40-50 RTS' when the rest of the CNG LF order comes thru later this year.
the new flyers have some issues too. they do run much better than the orions. they are the most comfortable bus i have ever driven.
>>> the new flyers ... are the most comfortable bus i have ever driven. <<<
If you are talking about the LF model, I would say it is the most comfortable transit bus I have ridden on lately. The seats on the NABI are too close together and therefore do not have enough leg room, plus a really hard ride, and the Gillig Advantage does not have sufficient vertical poles, nor a decent handhold when exiting the back door. The Orion VI is the second most comfortable bus to ride on, but out here they have ghastly blue interior lights and longitudinal seating all the way to the back door.
Tom
better yet alice would be driving the cng bus and ralph the househubby. what do you think people.
>>better yet alice would be driving the cng bus and ralph the househubby. what do you think people<<
What's next, Trixie working in the sewer ? You know with the boys as house husbands nothing will get done because of bowling etc.
Bill "Newkirk"
I saw a Queens Surface RTS 389 turning onto 75 Ave from Utopia Parkway in a RARE Part of Queens that Queens Surface Buses are hard to find. Before I saw it. It was parked next to the Church and People where getting on it. And then saw it 10 Minutes Later turning from 188 St onto LIE Service Road.
idk if this bus was being used as a CHURCH BUS or not. I just like to know that if it is since it was parked next to a church and people where getting on it.
Thurston, perhaps you can find out the answer to this. If Q46 had put something about QSC in the title maybe it would have caught your eye.
It's a church charter. I've seen it before on 73rd Avenue, Union Tpk in and around the 190-200's.
Enjoy! Taken yesterday standing on the Flushing Avenue J fare control level.
For some strange reason, the picture seems pixelated (or at least on my comp). If you want to spring for the 1.36MB dl of the pic (taken in SHQ mode on my olympus camera), just omit the resize from the filename. Enjoy!
It does seem a little pixelated; possibly because of how it was resized . . . next time try resampling it as well if you can; that usually smoothes out the jagged edges.
That aside, gorgeous shot! Looks like it belongs in an art magazine or something.
C
Thanks.
Great Shot Clayton, The Color version I did of it came out about the same, though I had more of the bus, but I love your B&W over my color version. We must hang again!
Trev.
No, I'm still a MAJOR Flxible METRO Buff!!!!!! LOL! :o)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Is MTA now going to have WMATA sign woes? I saw one J2 today that had its rear sign reading C4 and another said J2 but other LEDs were on making it hard to read. I also once saw a New Flyer Articulated on the M86 reach the end of the line, then change its sign to the X17.
The MTA is having big time sign woes becuase some big wig, will remain nameless convinced the even bigger wig that they could take over the sign maintenance, this caused Luminator to loose its sign maintenance contract for the TA.
So expect more sign "woes!"
Regards,
Trevor Logan
You must have seen possibly the best driver on the M86, or even out of Quill, Vincent Mashburn. He's the most friendly driver you'll ever meet. He also likes to fool around with the signs a lot.
I don't pay much attention to the drivers. This happened back in June of 2000 though, if I recall correctly. It was the summer the 5000 series artics were at Quill, whatever year that was. It could have been anybody as far as I'm concerned! He went back east on 86th, so I never saw what it ended up being changed to.
One guy on the M79 made excellent announcements for transfers, indicating which street had uptown M1 and downtown M1 and even announced transfers for the 6 and Bloomingdales.
Wow, Fresh Pond is really stretching its territory now...LOL.
so someone made a mistake with their destination sign.i ride around with bx13 (in broolyn) yankee stadium.
Ah, 4708, an FP star! Some of the drivers while operating passenger-less back to the depot log in random destination number codes. Raises eyebrows, makes for an eyeopening pix in the slide collection!
I knew it had to do something with FP, before I even clicked on this topic! The title gave it away, LOL!!!
I'm not suprised to see this, those 4600's and 4700's can't even get the right destination.
One time, I remember seeing the 4663 say Bx3, G. Washington Bridge Plaza. I also saw the 4748 say Bx16 at the back. And many times, I see FP buses say Bx13:Yankee Stadium. I wish they could go there!
Keep up the good work Fresh Pond ((insert sarcastic remark here)).
-
Will the drought at Fresh Pond ever end? 3 years, 1 month, and still going.
Maybe the drive just put in the wrong code number for the sign he/she really needed....
I've done it myself -- and of course, as NOBODY reads the signs before the jump in the bus, I didn't know until I got to the end of the line and looked up to change signs again...
....for the feat that one of your beloved sports team FINALLY WON A CHAMPIONSHIP. I mean the NE Patriots winning the Super Bowl. I know its been way too many years since your pro sports team has won any significant championship, but I would love to tip my hat to you for the Patriots' achievement. What a fitting victory too, a Super Bowl with a theme of patriotism, won by a team named the Patriots, whose entire being was a living and breathing example of true patriotism. Now I bet that half of the male population would drop dead with smiles on their faces if somehow, the Red Sox would win the World Series. Now that would be a double treat wouldn't it?
With all the talk of CNG, here is a poll I'd like everyone to answer
What is the best CNG bus engine out there? Reliability being most important?
My take on this, maybe that the John Deere CNG engine at Queens Surface is the best one out there. DDC Series 50G comes in second.
(Do they make a Series 60 CNG?)
For me, I think L10G is good too because I took a LACMTA Neoplan AN440 CNG before and the ride was really smooth, same as what Muni has for their AN440 Diesel.
BTW, what engine/transmission does this Orion V, #317 have?
Stephen
When the TA enabled service cutbacks in 1991 (?), some Brooklyn routes stopped operating 24 hours a day. One of the routes included the B16.
Has the TA any plans to reverse this change, noting that the last bus from Shore Road to 37th Street is around 1:30AM and the first bus out of 37th St. - 13th Av. and/or Flatbush/Lincoln and/or Shore/4th Av. is 4:05AM?
Additionally, when is the next time the DOB reviews the loading frequencies (or whatever the terminalogy may be) for this route? It has shown growth in the past survey.
It was 1995.
There are no plans to reinstate 24-hour service. Believe me, the line couldn't support 24-hour service.
DOB (Department of Buses) doesn't review ridership levels; Operations Planning does. If a ridership count shows that riding has grown to the point that more service is needed, more service will be provided. All routes are surveyed on a regular basis.
David
David, can you per chance post the ridership figures for the B11 and B16 routes, if available for the past few years? If it isn't feasable, thank you anyway.
I wanted to observe the growth pattern on these lines.
I can provide 1998-1999 annual bus ridership:
B11
1998: 2,941,177
1999: 3,114,277 (+5.8%)
B16
1998: 2,042,587
1999: 2,115,743 (+3.5%)
David
David,
Would you be kind enough to list the Brooklyn Division routes besides the B-18 and B-40 that have showed a decline in ridership over the past several years
Thank You
No :-)
I only have data for 1999 vs. 1998. The routes that lost ridership in that time, on an annual basis, were:
B18 (-7.4%)
B37 (-4.2%)
B39 (-31.4% - 1999 was the year of major service disruptions on the Williamsburg Bridge, including a subway closure during the summer)
B48 (-0.2%)
B51 (-7.6%)
B68 (-1.7%)
B40 was up 6.0% from 1998 to 1999.
David
Thank You David
It is interesting but if you look at the B40/B78 route consolidation report the TA says that the B-40 was one of 9 routes to lose ridership over the past several years.
Please check the MTA Web site for the information under "News"
Thank You
Again: I was comparing 1998 with 1999, the only two years I had. Perhaps over a longer period, the B-40 HAS lost ridership.
David
I just got 2000 statistics. In 2000, B-40 ridership was down 7.0% compared with 1999, more than wiping out the increase from 1998 to 1999. See what happens when one compares only two consecutive years?
David
David,
Please advise what other routes had lost ridership between 1999 and 2000
Thank You
Brooklyn:
B18 (-7.3%)
B37 (-7.3%)
B40 (-7.0%; already mentioned)
B48 (-0.2%)
B51 (-8.8%)
B63 (-0.9%)
B68 (-2.0%)
B69 (-1.0%)
B71 (-4.5%)
B75 (-3.2%)
Q54 (-0.8%)
Q56 (-10.6%)
Bronx:
Bx4 (-0.8%)
Bx14 (-1.8%)
Bx20 (-1.0%)
Bx55 (-1.4%)
Manhattan:
M2 (-2.0%)
M5 (-4.4%)
M6 (-0.3%)
M7 (-0.2%)
M27 (-0.5%)
Queens:
Q48 (-1.7%)
Q79 (-0.2%)
Staten Island:
S55 (-7.2%)
S56 (-1.3%)
S60 (-4.8%)
S66 (-0.6%)
X3 (-1.4%)
X20 (-5.4%)
David
Interesting about the B-68 route losing riders. I wondered if it had anything to do on being transferred from Ulmer Park to Jackie Gleason
Thank You
Do the passengers pay attention to that? I don't really understand how a depot change could lower ridership, unless the deadhead time makes service irreliable.
the depot a line comes out of has nothing to do with ridership. the b68 proabaly fluctuates on an annual basis. remember in the summer wather greatly affects what the count will be. bad weather means less people going down to brighton beach. good weather means packed buses down in brighton beach. the run on run off is just about the same time as it was in up.just different ends of the line.
sure it can. some garages are more efficent than others it depends on where a swing point is etc.
Take the B-68
At Ulmer Park drivers swing at Ocean Pkway/Brighton Beach Ave. you just go out and make relief. the bus is always there
At Gleason i understand they pull in and out. If no bus no trip
If a driver is late than you short tune. Since most ridership on the B-68 is between SurfAve and Park Circle Ulmer Park service will be short turned there and the driver can be put back into place
At Gleason since the buses originate at the north part of the line you have to short tune say at Kings Highway
Believe it or not this effects ridership
Thank You
sorry its short turn
Thank You
well i disagree . the same people are still going to get on the bus and the next bus is going to get packed. this isn`t flatbush avenue where there are other modes of transportation (dollar vans). so you tell me where the people go if a bus is missing. what happens is the buses just get more crowded. and for your information all the moves to turn a bus around (thats right turn not tune) are usually done from kings hwy, where there is a dispatcher post. and also if i am not mistaking the relief point when at ulmer park except for the summer was kings hwy.
No the relief point was always at Brighton Beach Ave and Ocean Parkway. Travel was via B-64 bus and Brighton train from Stillwell Ave to Kings Highway.
Travel time was 20 minuates i believe
Thank You
BTW i use to work for NYC TRansit and when i was growing up in Brooklyn my neighbor was a driver in Ulmer Park
i worked it in 1983 and the relief point then was moved to kings hwy
does not make sense but thats the TA for you
before it was moved to gleason the relief point except for the summer was kings hwy
Nope. I know the relief point was at Kings Highway at one point while the B68 was in Ulmer Park, but the last few years the line in Ulmer Park it was all pull-out/pull-in in the summer.
When the route was moved to Jackie Gleason Depot, the relief point was established at the end of the line (Bartel Pritchard Square). This requires two buses (B63 and B75) to get to/from the depot; the B63 reportedly was so unreliable that reliefs weren't being made on time, so the relief point was recently moved to Coney Island & Church Avenues, reachable via the B35.
On weekends, the B68 was and is all pull-out/pull-in (no road reliefs scheduled).
David
to get to brighton from up you were suppose to take b3 to 25the avenue to b train to d train.
When i use to go to Ulmer Park which was before 1983 granted my neighbor retired then
why would you take one bus and 2 trains when you can take 1 bus and 1 train
if i recall its 10minuates from depot to Stillwell via B-64
Thanks
your right but thats the way the ta posted on the schedule to get to brighton1 bus 2 trains
No...at least at the end of the time of Ulmer Park's operation of the B68, "Barry's" information was correct: travel on the B68 was via the B64 and the D train.
David
then bring the b68 back to Ulmer Park
The relief point was moved to Kings Highway I believe because the union requested it. by teh the path of relief was via the B82
30 minutes i think.
The relief point was at Kings Highway before there was a B82. Travel would have been via the B5.
David
I should have knowen that. lol
What was it, a 1.8% loss? I am certain when the new numbers come out, the B68 will gain ridership. It's a "senior/school" special, with a majority of it's riders being elderly and/or of schoolage.
now there is a line the could benefit from limited service!!!!!
The planners have thought from time to time about creating a B68 Limited. However, the line doesn't have (or need) enough service to be able to split it into Local and Limited trips -- whatever time would be saved in skipping stops would be more than offset in waiting for the bus!
David
the limited service could be done at certain times. rush hour could definitely be a good time. also with all the hebrew kids that go to and from school in midwood it could benefit alot of the senior`s that ride from transfer point to transfer point. the b68 is a nightmare midday!!!!!!!!!
The best the B68 does (off the top of my head) is a 6.5-minute headway. Running half the service as Limiteds would mean a 13-minute Limited headway and a 13-minute local headway. Unless a SUBSTANTIAL decrease in travel time can be expected by using a Limited (and, really, that's not going to happen unless someone's riding end-to-end, and how many people do THAT?), it's not worth it for someone to wait for a Limited bus on the B68. That's why the idea has been rejected.
David
that would make no sense. If the B68 was losing money to beign with-what difference would it make running it from either JG or UP?
Who said that the B-68 was losing money?
Thanks for the information. As I suspected, the Borough Park corridor has shown steady increase.
I was comparing TWO years. I don't have enough information to call anything "steady."
David
Even for two years. I'm sure when the the numbers are available for the more recent year(s), it will show the same rate of growth.
the b16 ridership is way up in bay ridge from along shoreroad and up 86 street. lots of people use to walk to the subway before the metrocard.also from fort hamilton pkwy and 7th avenue lots more people take the 16 to the n train at 62 nd street.that is one reason for the rise and also the extension of the line to empire and flatbush.
the b16 after 10pm at night picks up maybe a handful of people. don`t hold your breath for them to reinstate 24 hour service!!!!
Agreed....I used to get the 11:37 (from Shore Road and Ridge Blvd.), and I was the ONLY passenger 'til 4th Avenue sometimes.....and even then there was only a few people getting on between 4th Avenue and 81st Street/7th Avenue (at the very end of the overpass of the Gowanus/BQE), which is my home stop.
Stuart, RLine86Man
Hay guys what do you think of the porposed route combimaation 13/18 and 40/78? Do you have altenate ideas? do yopu aagree with the porposals?
I my seelf have problems with the 40/78 combimnation not that i don't whaat a true ralph ave bus but how about the peaple who transfer to crosstown route who ariginate in teh eny industrial area their commutes will be more indirect if this plan is aproved.
As for teh 13/18 i have no problems with it except that I believe the proposed service levels along Bushwick ave will not be enouph in the long run. What ever saving in the short run will evenaly have to be spent an increraing service.
This would not be the frist time this would happen it happpened is the early 90's when the B5 and B50 became the B82. It might have saved money in the short run but it caused alot of other problems mainly operaation. But also it happend right before metrocard which has changed everything.
Mike,I like the idea of a B40/B78 combination but not the way the TA wants to do it. I would run the combined route from Williamsburg Bridge Plaza to Kings Plaza 24 hours a day and assign it to East New York Depot. Howerver i would extend the B-65 Bergen Street route from Ralph Ave via the current B-40 route to Pennsylvina/Liberty Avenues but if there is not enough traffic then i would have alternate B-65 buses terminate at Ralph/St Johns. If i ran the TA then the B-65 would be transferred from Gleason back to ENY with the B-45 going to Gleason in its place.
The B13/B18 combination is also a good one. The B-18 part which is going to be eliminated on Cypress Avenue is basically running near cemetaries and unless the dead get up and start to ride buses no potential ridership gains in this vicinity will be realizied. Also the B-26 operates one block away between Halsey Street and Myrtle Avenue.
Unlike the B5/B50 combination which created the B82 you are not eliminating duplicate service. The problem of the B-82 will be posted in another message
Thank You
The B40/B78 is a good one. The B40 is basically dead at night, especially at the ENY Industrial end. I doubt that the new B47 will be a 24 hour route. Ridership does not warrant it and itll basically duplicate the B46. Im thinking ENY will get the route but we will wait and see. I cant comment on B13/18 issue so I never rode either one of these bus routes. As for the public hearing, Im thinking of going and check it out.
Having grown up in the Ridgewood area the elimination of the 18 and extending the 13 to Williamsburg is a good idea.After the 18 turns off Cypress on to Cypress Hill and "snake hill" it basically duplicates the 13 for that short stint even in the schedule.Both buses leave Jamaica/Crescent at almost the same time.The ridership between Cypress Hills and Ridgewood on the 18 is far less than that of the 13(granted that Cypress Ave to Myrtle/Wycoff is more direct than Fresh Pond/Forest/Gates Aves.)And at least weekdays there is more frequency of 13's to 18's(Weekends both run every 1/2 hr).
I've noticed a few typos on bus signs recently. Some signs on the Q60 will say that they go to 190 Avenue and 157 Street. Meanwhile, in Manhattan, you can take an x28 from 5th Avenue to a place called Bensonhursrt.
Anyone else notice strange typos?
I once saw a NJT-owned Coach USA bus which it's headsign read "NOT IN SREVICE". There's a picture of it at Trevor's TransiTalk Community Page at MSN.
On the cover of "Trolley Buses 1913-2001 Photo Archive" by William A. Luke the Seattle Metro Gillig Trolleybus #4100 says ASLTOM/GILLIG on the front sign and ALSTOM/GILLIG on the side sign. Oops.
PAT Transit operates two trips Monday-Friday to a retirment home called St.Barnabas. Originally, it was spelled correctly in the signs, however one pick they changed signs around and somebody must have recreated the sign and made a typo. For a while, the headsigns said 11A TO ST.BARNABUS and stayed that way for about a year until it was corrected back to the correct way, 11A TO ST.BARNABAS
I've seen many vague and/or misleading headsigns, but the above is the only typo I've ever noticed.
Here's a good one:
A short-sign on the Q58 in intended to indicate Corona Avenue & 108th Street. However, the sign has TWO typos, one each on the front and side.
The front sign (16x112) says...
Q58
CORONA AV
180 ST
...while the side sign (7x90) says...
Q58 CORONA AV
Q58 108 AV
I have seen a sign M6 to 59th Street via 5th Avenue before i relocated to Florida.
Thank You
Oh That was a big one! I remember that sign error!
Rockland has a lovely one on one of the Orion 1s:
TZX 2
TERRYTOWN
WHITE PLAINS
TERRYTOWN is supposed to be TARRYTOWN and what makes it even more wierd that only one bus has this error!
Trevor
I remember another sign typo on bus 3930 which is now scrap. Front and side signs said Q46 Kew Gardens Queens Blvd-rear sign says M10.
I was like HUH?!
#3933 Q46
Here's a Typo from one of the Bee Line Flxibles that I saw on the 45 once and the side sign show ( zzzzzz )(45)
I saw a minor error on #466 on the Q104 tonight as the sign said NOT IN SERVICE. Also CS bus #138 the front and side signs say Q32-the rear Q26. 138 was on the Q32 this weekend BTW.
#138 Q32
#466 Q104
And what is up with Orin #197 out of Mother Clara Hale with the at HUGE "S5" on the rear?!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I have a pic of MCI 2046 with a HUGE 55 in the rear. It was when the bus was 1st in service.
#2046 X10
How about FP's 5072 that said M60: LaGuardia Airport, when it was parked near the B52 stop on Palmetto St.
-Jay
The Regional Transportation Commission of Southern Nevada
Does anyone have idea what bus model those new buses are?
Can possiblly be New Flyer C40's.However it doesn't specify HF or LF as they do operate both.
It's also possible that the buses could be NABI low floors, similar to the newer NABIs operated by LACMTA. RTC of Southern Nevada had been placing orders with NABI in recent years.
"Ctrabs" I was checking out your website. I noticed that the Las Vegas Roster when you open it beomes the New Hampshire Roster. Can you fix that, please? Otherwise, nice job on the rosters.
As of 3:30pm, that error has been fixed. (Here's the link to the CAT/Las Vegas Roster)
These are New Flyer Low Floor 40 foot buses. I had seen one when in Las Vegas a few weeks back. There is a very poor picture of #672 at "http://communities.msn.com/thetransitalkcommunity/lasvegascatphotosbysid.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=796" (Unfortunately, I have not learned to do a decent job scanning slides yet! I apologize for the terrible quality of this photo!)
Where can I find more pics of the Blue Bird LTC 40? exterior, interior
I tried looking for web sites, but this model seems pretty rare.
I also appreciate help in finding more info on the dashboard.Maybe a close-up.
Thanks
Was the Bx56 a Culture Loop Bus Route in the Bronx?
Yes but the route was short lived
Thank You
Yes it was, heres a picture of one on the Concourse.
Peace,
ANDEE
thanks for the memoires-i do remember those buses.
Somehow I remember that I rode 8802 the only time I rode the route! Sorry Bronx guys, I didn't get off, just rode it back to my starting point!
Saw 995413 on the 35 on Connecticut Avenue between Knowles and University, heading to Wheaton, at about 4:30.
I didn't make my usual commute this morning, no idea what was running up county.
The pretense of creating the B-82 route was to eliminate the duplication between Coney Island Avenue and Flatbush Avenue that existed on the B-5 and B-50 routes which operated prior to September 1995. Here are some of the reasons that the B-82 has had problems:
1-Identity- People on the western part of the line still refer to the route as the B-5 today and its only been 6 and half years since the change. Heck even the TA did so once when a GO required that subway service on the entire Sea Beach N line between 59th Street and Stillwell Ave one weekend. The replacement Shuttle Bus Service refered to the bus stop at the Kings Highway N Station as the "B-5 bus Stop" in the brouchure that was issured for the service change. I would not be surprised that residents of Starrett City refer to the 82 as the 50.
2- The route is too long. I believe you have a one way running time of at least 1 hour and 15 minuates. It has to be one of the longest running times in the system today
3- At first the line was split between East New York and Ulmer Park. The drivers however never helped each other out because your leader may not have been from the same depot as you. I know this is true because drivers from each depot told me so.
4- Even though the B-82 is assigned to one depot(East New York) today problems still exist because of the lines length. If supervision has to short turn a bus it is usually done on the western part of the line.
Possible B-82 solutions
1-Return to two seperate routes. This is not a solution only because you now have a decent ridership between the old B-5 part of the route(Canal/Cropsey Ave to Coney Island Ave) that now travel to the old B-50 part east of Flatbush Ave.
2-Implement a Limited Stop service such as the Q20/Q44. This can be done by either of two ways
#1-Extend the B-7 from Coney Island Ave to Canal Ave as an all stop service with the B-82 as a Limited Stop service. The problem with this is that both the B-7 and B-82 are East New York Depot routes which originate at the eastern part of both routes
#2-Bring back the B-5 as a local service between Canal Ave and Flatbush Ave and the B-82 continues as a Limited Stop service. The problem with this is that the B-5 would have to be assigned to Ulmer Park and then you have the problem of two differnt depots
3-Transfer the B-82 and the local service to Flatbush Depot. This will be the idea solution but because Flatbush is right in the middle of the B-82 as well as the B-7 routes but Flatbush has no room unless you transfer the B-49 to East New York which is not a viable solution because you have to adjust the B-49 which now originates and terminates at the southern part of the route unless you implement 24 hour service on the B-7
Just a few ideals. Your comments are appreciated
Thank You
Return the B82 To Ulmer Park, re-rename it to B5.
Run the B5 between STILLWELL/SURF and ROCKAWAY P'KAY via present B82 route.
Run the B82 from it's present terminal at Starrett City to Flatbush and Flatlands, with a stop at R'kay P'way "L" station. B82 will be out of ENY.
Which will be the next bus fleet to retire and what will be it's replacement?
Off topic:Is there any website which specializes in this type of stuff?
RTS with New Flyer & Orions
As I predicted in the beginning of this year, The 1999 Nova RTS are starting to get their 3 year upgrades. Saw 5061 along Greenpoint Ave tonight freshly repainted, white paint on the doors and the new numbers. It has begun and boy do those 1999 Nova buses need it.
#5061 B24
Its not the first, I saw MJQ's 5177 about two weeks ago with the "white boy" scheme!
Trev.
It's the 2nd. LOL. The 4900s really need it badly-the suspensions are very shot on those.
#4919 Q46
I saw bus 4949 from ENY depot repainted and bus 4935 from QV is half repainted.
If it's true that the upgrades have begun, I'd better be writing to Jay St. and DOB right now. I really wish they expand the seat pitches on those units, cause they're a pain, no, squeeze to sit in.
You can add the Orions to this list as well 6121 looks like she was repainted.
Now that I've been riding the Neo artics on the L and 27, I've discovered something very interesting about the engine. It starts of painfully slow, but the after a while, it picks up speed. I thought it had to do with the RPM or just the gears, but when it was starting down the hill and switched into the 2nd gear, it still took about the same amount of time to pick up speed. Is this something that's governed or are all buses with this engine/transmission ratio the same?
If probady a govern in the transmission.
Can anyone confirm the routing in the area of Jewel Square for the B25 B83 Q24
etc??
thanks
If you are talking about near ENY depot,
B25: Fulton, Right on Williams, Left on Fulton to Alabama, drop off/pick up pax, left on Alabama, slight right onto Fulton.
B83: SB Van Sinderen, left on Fulton, Right on Williams, left on Fulton to Penn Ave, right on Penn Ave, normal. NB Left on Jamaica, slight right onto Bway, left on Van Sinderen to stand.
Q24: SB Same as B83 until Penn then left on Atlantic, normal. NB. Right on Penn, Left onto Jamaica, slight right onto Bway, normal.
what about the q20
sorry
thanks again
steve
what about the 20
(Decauter etc)
sorry
thanks again
steve
The B20 (Ridgewood) would follow the same routing as the B83 N/B until the depot then follow the Q24 until Decatur and then make a right onto Decatur, then normal.
Thank you!
Steve
I am sorry ,,again,,and again,,what about the B12
Thanks,,again and again
Steve
The B12:
From City Line/Cypress Hills:
Liberty Ave, right onto Penn to Jamaica Ave, Left onto Jamaica, straight past Jewel Square onto ENY Ave, then regular.
To City Line/Cypress Hills:
ENY Ave, slight right onto Fulton Street, right onto Penn Ave. Penn Ave to Liberty, left onto Liberty, then regular.
Thank you
Steve
In fact, I believe the B12 stops at Jewel Sq. (Prospect Park direction.)
saw this bus mentioned on a previous post. it too spent its last days at yukon. besides being slow it had its original hard as a brick operators sear circa april 1982. thankfully it was soon put out of its misery.
Took a rare trip to Queens today and saw Orion V bus #5542 on the Q-11. The exterior was all-white, except for a Green Bus Lines logo near the front. I am guessing this bus was recently repainted and the green stripes were not yet applied. Anyone have any more definite information on this bus? (I remember all the Orion V's were all-white when first placed in service, but I assume all of them, including 5542, eventually received the GBL paint scheme.)
IIRC, 5542 was in a bad accident and got repair but never recieved the full paint scheme again, last time I saw here she was sporting a Street Side Body Wrap!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Heres a shot i got of 5542 a long time ago:
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
5542 was involved in an accident on the Q10 route a long time ago-I believe a truck hit the bus. I do not know where it was damaged though. It has never received the paintjob that the other 5500s have received-only that it says Green Lines on the front and sides. It does have the Orange Balios signs. Also it no longer has the street side wraps.
Hope this helps you out.
#5542 Q60
Today I bought a $4 fun pass at a Metrocard Subway Vending Machine, so I assume all the revenue from that sale goes to MTA. I used the pass on a number of private NYCDOT operators in Queens. Do they get any revenue from my use of the Metrocard on their buses? Does it work the same way with a regular Metrocard (i.e., not an unlimited ride card) that is bought from an MTA source and then used on a NYCDOT bus?
The NYCDOT operators simply report the number of Metrocard trips to the MTA from the farebox computer records, and they get reimbursed a set fee. Same thing happens in NJ - independent bus companies report NJT Bus Pass use to NJT and are reimbursed a fee per trip.
(I'm only messing, I do know how to spell Buck or Butt Naked, LOL!)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Trevor, you spelt buck wrong :-) Nice pic 007!
Hey if they are repainting it, maybe it will stay around longer than 2003?
Put some pants on that bus!
Heres one for the Classic fans:
This was my bus this past Sunday. I love this wrap and its a good bus too(hint.....hint.....).
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
LLE Operator
What buses are there in Florida? Are they worth riding?
Thanks, in advance.
The only one worth riding is the METROBUS system in Miami.
Miami/Dade,Broward and Palm Beach each ave their own bus systerms.
It is MetroBus in Miami/Dade,BrowardCounty Transit in Broward County and PalmTran in Palm Beach County.
Since i live in Palm Beach County i can tell you that Palm Tran has about 300 buses in 2 depots West Palm Beach and Delray.Nost buses are Gilligs but have seen some Orions.
Broward County still uses Grummans. Also have seem Gilligs and Orions
I know that Miami/Dade has some articulated and some shuttle buses but really do not know much about the system
Hope this helps
Thank You
I know that Miami-Dade basically has NABIs, and there are some Flxible Metro D/Es the last time I was there. It has low floor, high floor, and articulated NABIs
AFAIK, Palmtran doesn't have any Orions, just some Flxibles, Gilligs (Phantoms and Low Floors) and a few Chance small buses.
Broward DEFINITELY has no Orions, just Flxibles (Metros, no Grummans),
Gillig Phantoms, New Flyer D40LFs and Gillig Low Floors.
Miami-Dade Transit has Flxibles and Ikarus articulated buses, but since 1997 have purchased NABI exclusively. They have 50 1997 Hi-floor NABIs, everything after that has been low-floor.
They also have 90 Blue Bird CS (I think) buses for lightly-traveled routes.
I have seen some pictures of Orion II buses in PalmTran colors, so you might see some Orion IIs in Palm Beach County.
Oops--when I made my post just now, forgot about those.
But BCt definitely doesn't have any Orions.
Florida features several "good but not great" transit systems. Outside of heavy urban routes in Miami, expect to see a lot of 15-peak/30-base service. For some reason, Floridian transit authorities bought loads and loads of Flxibles - both 870s and Metros - from the early 80s through the early 90s. Here is a brief rundown of the Florida TA's with which I am somewhat familiar:
- Lynx (Central Florida Regional Transportation Authority) operates a decent system of about 50 routes in the Orlando area. Most routes operate every 30-60 minutes; the system is used primarily by local workers, but there are a few routes of interest to the tourist as well, such as the #8 International Drive bus. In the past, they have had 35-foot and a few 40-foot Flxibles. They have a few mid 80s Neoplan AN-435-As still around as well as Orion V (30 and 40 foot) and lots and lots of 40-foot Gillig Phantoms. Over half of their buses are ad-wrapped, but the others sport bright and unique paint schemes for Lynx itself. Very photoworthy. Of interest, there is a route in Central Orlando called "Lymmo" which operates New Flyer C35LFs at 4-5 minute headways over reserved lanes - it's free. More recently, Lynx has begun using suburban Phantoms on longer-distance runs to places like Daytona Beach. http://www.golynx.com/
- JTA in Jacksonville has an interesting fleet including Flxible Metro Bs, Flxible Metro Ds, 30- and 40-foot Neoplans from the early 90s, a handful of Ikarus 416s (not sure if these are still in service) and some newer WFD Nova RTSs. They have some decent bus routes, many of which connect with the automated people mover system which travels in the downtown area. Incidentally, Jacksonville is Florida's largest city - almost twice the size of Miami in population. http://www.jtaonthemove.com/
- In Tampa, HARTline operates a so-so bus system in Tampa (in addition to a short, two-station downtown people line to Harbor Island and a center city streetcar which is currently under construction) using some late 80s Flxs, various RTSs, and some newer 30- and 35-foot Gillig Phantoms. They might also have Gillig low floors. On the St Petersburg side of the Tampa Bay, a seperate system called PSTA (Pinellas Suncoast Transit Authority) operates about 175 buses (all lengths of NFI low floor, 35-foot Gillig Phantoms, perhaps a few 35-foot Flxibles left) on a pretty skeletal network with fair-at-best headways.
- Palm Beach County's PalmTran has improved leaps and bounds over the last decade. This system now operates over 200 buses on a pretty thorough network of routes in PBC - although the frequencies leave something to be desired. Due to the tall, thin geography of PBC, there are only four main north-south routes, numbered 1-4. Route 1 is a long, long route which treks Federal Highway (US-1) from the Broward County border all the way up to Palm Beach Gardens. There are many east-west routes, which are numbered in series based on the areas they serve. PalmTran probably has some 30-foot Flxible Metros from 1991 still at work, as well as eight or so 40-foot Metros from 1995. When PalmTran expanded majorly in 1996-97, they purchased about 50 Chance Coach RT-52s; I am not sure if these are still around. In more recent years, they have bought loads of Gilligs - including 30- 35- and 40-foot Phantoms as well as 40-foot Advantage low floors. PalmTram connects with TriRail at several locations along the I-95 corridor.
- Last time I was in South Florida, transit in the Fort Lauderdale area was operated by a fleet of bland-looking Flxible Metros belonging to Broward County Transit. Since, BCt has rebranded itself to "B-Line" and come up with a new honeycomb paint scheme - and has replaced many of the Flxible Metros with a batch of 32 - 1996 Gillig Phantoms, 28 - 1997 NFI D40LFs, and more 1999-2000 Gillig Advantage low floors. B-Line operates some surprisingly frequent routes, many of which connect with TriRail at various locations. You will have no trouble tracking the fleet, as all buses are year-numbered. I never got a chance to ride this system, but it looks kind of interesting.
- MDTA, Miami-Dade Transit Agency, operates the massive Metrobus, Metrorail, and Metromover systems in Miami-Dade. I question their bus operation techniques; they have been pulling 10-12 year old Flxible Metros from service left and right where I really don't think these buses need to be retired. However, there are still plenty of Flxibles in service for Metrobus, at least the 9300 and 9400 series buses seem safe. There are also 50 - NABI 416 buses (9701-9750) and the NABI 40LFW low floors are really starting to take over. I would estimate that 200 are currently in service and there are over 400 more on order. 4000- and 5000-series buses are Ikarus/NABI 436 artics from 1994 and 1995. MDTA is currently running two paint schemes. Numbered routes travel on the mainland; lettered routes go to Miami Beach. Some bus routes are quite frequent and quite overcrowded; others are underserved and underused. The South Dade Busway parellels US-1 from the Dadeland South station of the Metrorail line. This is a nice application of true Bus Rapid Transit. Metrobus has several routes designated as "MAX" routes - these make limited stops. There is a Busway MAX as well as other local feeder routes which serve it. Metrorail is a one-line, elevated heavy rail system snaking from Dadeland Mall, up past Vizcaya, through Downtown Miami, and then west toward Hialeah. It's reasonably well-used, but it does not run all that frequently - maybe every 7-8 peak, every 10-15 base. Pretty weak for heavy rail. The Metromover system is an elevated, automated train system of three lines in the central Miami area. It stops about every two-three blocks and uses dinky little shuttle rail cars. It costs 25 cents whereas Metrobus and Metrorail cost $1.25. It is my belief that MDTA has some severe management issues, but I would still think this system is worth a ride, particularly one of the lettered routes out to Miami Beach (try the S bus.)
- Tri-Rail is a commuter rail system linking Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami-Dade counties on the I-95 corridor. In fact, Tri-Rail was launched in 1989 is an alternate to I-95 during a period of extended construction. Tri-Rail became so successful that they have double-tracked the railroad, built new stations, and added several new trains per day. On average, Tri-Rail operates about every hour, seven days a week. Fares are zone-based, and MDTA, PalmTran, and B-Line make excellent connections with Tri-Rail. One of Tri-Rail's greatest functions is its proximity to all three of Sotuh Florida's major airports - PBI, FLL, and MIA. Shuttle bus connections are available to all three. There is also a Tri-Rail/Metrorail transfer station.
- Various other smaller systems exist in other Florida cities. Virtually every city to speak of has some sort of transit system. Most of these systems, like the larger ones, bought Flxibles historically, and many of them have switched to Gillig since the demise of Flx. To my knowledge, none of these systems is particularly noteworthy.
Have a good time! Be sure to tell us of your transit travels in the Sunshine State!
--N.Greenberg
¡Qué viva el subjuntivo!
<<- Last time I was in South Florida, transit in the Fort Lauderdale area was operated by a fleet of bland-looking Flxible Metros belonging to Broward County Transit. Since, BCt has rebranded itself to "B-Line" and come up with a new honeycomb paint scheme - and has replaced many of the Flxible Metros with a batch of 32 - 1996 Gillig Phantoms, 28 - 1997 NFI D40LFs, and more 1999-2000 Gillig Advantage low floors. >>
Believe it or not, after only 3 years, BCt is scrapping the honeycomb
c/s--Broward County wants all county vehicles to bear the words "Broward County Commission". Strange.
They actually have 45 NFI D40LFs. 35 1999 Advantages, 33 2000 models,
and 41 2001s.
As far as Miami-Dade Transit, the Flxibles they are retiring are actually 1987 and 1988 models, which are life-expired and also the only buses left in the system without wheelchair lifts. Even so, several remain, in fact I've heard 2 1987 buses (7025 and 7044) are being returned to service.
Still you are correct in saying MDT has management issues (when they still used the initials MDTA, the joke was it stood for Most Dysfunctional Transit Agency) :) A friend of mine is a road supervisor for them, and oh the stories he could tell (he does read this board so perhaps we will hear some of them) :)
As of now, I think my travels will be restricted to the Disney World Monorail, I don't know how much time I am going to have. It might just be I get photos and never ride, something that occasionally happens. The Miami system seems interesting.
[As of now, I think my travels will be restricted to the Disney World Monorail]
Actually, the one interesting system Neil omitted from his excellent, detailed summary of Florida bus operations is the Disney World System. There have been other posts about this system in recent months, if I remember correctly. They have mostly RTS's, although the newest buses are Nova LFS's. I believe they also have a few OTR coaches.
The vast majority of the Disney bus fleet consists of RTS coaches. I have a partial Disney roster at my web site. I also have a partial Jacksonville roster (I don't have info on the Neoplans that Neil was referring to, but I do have a listing, including the Flxibles, Novas, and even the Ikarus buses) and a complete Orlando roster at my site.
This is Metro Dade's Site: www.co.miami-dade.fl.us/transit/
Most of the smaller systems in Florida are either weekday only or have limited fixed-route service. Space Coast Area Transit in Brevard County runs Thomas buses based on a school bus chasis.
I believe either Tallahassee or Gainesville operated Orion Is and some Nova RTS buses as well. Sarasota County Area Transit also operated some Orion I coaches as well.
I did see some pictures of these buses at a web site, but I can't recall which one...
I'm about talking about the Q55 and B54. I think this would be great for people that get off the B54 at Palmetto St. who want to ride the Q55. The has HORRIBLE service during rush hour because of constant lateness, mainly because of the traffic in Ridgewood. Believe me, I live near Myrtle AV long enough to notice this. The only time where people actually ride the Q55 is at Palmetto St. By the time the B54 gets to Ridgewood, its nearly empty, and shouldn't have a problem picking up the passanger that make huge lines outside the L-Train station. This new route should provide the same amount of service as the Q58. Hey, if NYCT can combine the B47 and B62, why not do it to the Myrtle Av. routes?
-Jay
Believe it or not you just answered your own question. There have been talks of merging the 54 and 55 for years. A combined 54/55 route just will not work because of the traffic. Do you want another B 82 mess created
Thank You
For the past 2 days, I've seen this bus in 3 different locations.
Yesterday I saw this bus on 34 Ave going w/b at 70 St at 330pm. Today I saw this bus in 2 locations: At 150 St and Union Tpke at 220pm and at Queens Plaza North and 27 St at 400pm.
Question is-wassup with this bus? What is its purpose-where is it going?
#448 BM3
448 is always parked somewhere around Union and 150 almost everyday - sometimes on 150 and 78 rd, sometimes in the stop in front of carvel at 152 and Union. It's obvious this guy lives around there (or visiting his girlfriend :-> ).
This has been going on at least the last 2-3 years.
Or perhaps he hits his girlfriends house at 330 on 34 and 70 on his way to manhattan (thus passing QP North and 27 street at 4pm).
Why is he allowed to take the bus home with him though? Does he get specific permission to do that? This bus to me has been a mystery.
#448 ???
Well if he has enough clout to get the same bus everyday, he must have enough clout to persuade the yard dispatcher to let him keep the bus everyday..
A lot of Command drivers take their buses home with them. Most drivers have an assigned bus to their run so even if the driver is out sick or on vacation you will still get the same bus at the same time everyday.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
[Most drivers have an assigned bus to their run so even if the driver is out sick or on vacation you will still get the same bus at the same time everyday]
Assigning a specific bus to a specific run is pretty rare nowadays. It brings back memories of the pre-MSBA days in Nassau County. Two of the largest operators, Bee Line and Schenck, did operate in a way that most of the time, you would get the same bus on the same run each day. Frankly, I found that more boring than the random assignment of buses prevalent today.
I know this is the case for New York Bus Service, Liberty Lines Express and Command. Cant speak for the rest of the privates.
Peace,
Kevin
Today I observed a couple of NABI buses turning corners and they really seem to lean quite a bit on the turns even at low speeds. I have also noted when riding them that I have had to hold onto something to keep from being thrown out of a seat when they turn a corner. These buses all have large CNG fuel tanks on the roof of the bus. This got me thinking. Are these buses top heavy from the fuel tanks on the roof? I know natural gas is lighter than air, but when compressed, I assume there is some amount of weight to the tanks. Does anyone know how much a full tank of CNG adds to the weight of a bus? A few days ago, a B/O left the bus to check the amount of CNG remaining somewhere at the back of the bus, and returned saying there was still 500 lbs. of fuel and that the bus burned 125 lbs. per hour in operation, so we were not in danger of running out of fuel. I was not sure whether the "pounds" she was referring to were pounds of weight or pounds of pressure.
BTW. I have not noticed so much of a lean when the New Flyers make a turn although they also have the same sized CNG tank on the roof.
Tom
CNG are more top heavy then a diesel version. Notice the "allowed" standees between a Orion diesel vs. CNG.
The early "Vs" had 12 tanks, the later ones 8. Same amount of CNG but less steel, so less top heavy.
Mr rt__:^)
Orions have the same problem when they are CNG. It's another drawback of CNG compared to "good old diesel".
Drawback my ass, nothing is more fun then having a nice lean on a turn with a bus. One of the MAIN reasons I Love Flxible METROs and MCI Ds.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
[... nothing is more fun then having a nice lean on a turn with a bus ...]
Well that a matter of opinion my friend. Some of us prefer the scrEEEEch of steel wheels on a curve ;-)
>>> nothing is more fun then having a nice lean on a turn with a bus. <<<
That's easy for you to say when you are strapped into that comfortable seat with a big steering wheel to hang onto. The "cargo" behind you has to hold on tight (especially with hard plastic seats) to keep from being thrown to the aisle or suffer the social embarrassment of being pressed against the stranger along side. :-)
I still remember driving a ‘55 Chevy in the days before seat belts and bucket seats, when if you made a fast left turn you found yourself hanging onto the steering wheel with your ass way over by the right side door, and then you had to pull yourself back over to the driver's seat without twisting the steering wheel or doing anything squirrelly with the accelerator.
Tom
Yes, and I wouldn't want to be on my friend Trevor's bus reading a trade mag in the rear stairwell while he having fun up front.
Mr rt__:^)
Whats the reason that they don't store the CNG in the same compartment as Deseil fuel. Is it the size constraints.
Is the space formalyy occupied by the deseil tanks empty
A little known fact about deseil vs. CNG
CNG are inherently a safe motor fuel.
Unlike gasoline or diesel fuel, natural gas can only burn in a limited range of concentrations in air. Should a leak develop it leaks at a slower rate than liquid fuels and quickly disperses. Only a small fraction of the fuel can typically be involved in a fire. Also, unlike gasoline, natural gas can not detonate in the open air
>>> Whats the reason that they don't store the CNG in the same compartment as Deseil fuel <<<
A good question. I have heard, but am not sure if it is true that natural gas is lighter than air, and therefore any leak in a roof mounted tank would disperse upwards away from the passengers. If stored below the passenger compartment, it could leak upward and into the passenger compartment.
Tom
True but proper ventilation of the gas tank area should solve that concern.
According to Keyspan energy's website, cng will not burn in small quantities. It takes a large concentration of natral gas in a confined place to explode.
I agree that leaking of CNG into the passenger compartment was probable concider in tank location.
>>> It takes a large concentration of natral gas in a confined place to explode. <<<
It can happen though. Every so often there are news stories about houses exploding because of a leaking natural gas accumulation. If a CNG tank were to rupture in an accident, I, as a passenger would not want it below me. BTW, is the CNG used in buses odorized like that used in homes, or is it odorless? If odorless, the first hint of it leaking into the passenger compartment of buses would be sick passengers.
Tom
Hi,
I`m almost sure that CNG buses "must" be sensor equipped inside the bus to detect possible leakage of CNG.
On the New Flyer`s I seen, they have a computer controlled starting system where the sensors are activated to check for CNG leakage even before the engine can be actually started up.
Dave.
yeah...
there is a gadget on the dashboard that senses for gas leaks and fire.
Posted by Limey Dave on Sat Feb 9 11:12:40 2002
I`m almost sure that CNG buses "must" be sensor equipped inside the bus to detect possible leakage of CNG.
The reason the house exploded was a large build up of gas due to No ventilation.
According to keyspan energies website, deseil fuel is far more flamable for two reasons
1) a tank rupture releases a higher concentration of fuel which vaporizes and is flamable in smaller quantities in the air
2) CNG disperses quickly and tank ruptures normally release the gas in a small quantity. A fire may occur at the leak point but will not explode. Explosions occur when the gas obtains a density of more than x % and is comfined in a small place. imagine a plastic bag full of air. IF you seal the bag and than step on it a big pop sound occurs the bag has a huge hole in its side. If the bag is open and the air has an escape route, no pop the bag has no hole.
Keyspan give an example of a bus ramming the rear end of a NYC taxi. The taxi back end is destroyed. No Fire.
Also keep in mind that if a gasoline or deseil tank recieves a direct hit, it explodes violently. . A good example of this is the ford F series pickups of the early 80's that had side mounted fuel tanks. Rear end side hits resulted in large explosions.
src=http://delivery.keyspanenergy.com/ps_business/products/energy_perspectives.cfm
1. [Natural gas is lighter than air, and therefore any leak in a roof mounted tank would disperse upwards away from the passengers.]
That is correct.
2. CNG is gas so politatians & public are afraid of that word, even though CNG is safer then gasoline. So there are more restrictions about CNG. .... maybe someday this will change.
3. BTW, Calif had a big CNG explosion a number of years ago at a bus depot.
Mr rt__:^(
>>> It's another drawback of CNG compared to "good old diesel". <<<
It is not a drawback of CNG, it is a design defect if the suspension was not modified to compensate for the fuel on the roof. As I indicated this seems to be a characteristic of the NABIs only. The New Flyers LFs with the same size roof tanks do not lean like that. Trevor mentioned that the lean is a characteristic of the Flxible Metro also. I rode a Flxible Metro for the first time today, a diesel powered bus, and noticed the pronounced lean on turns.
Tom
I've been driving low flyers for the last 7 months and I don't think i've ever thought about the lean while turning. I seem to turn the same whether it's a low flyer or a high neoplan. Wouldn't mind giving a NABI a try someday...
Posted by Old Tom on Fri Feb 8 00:00:58 2002,
As I indicated this seems to be a characteristic of the NABIs only. The New Flyers LFs with the same size roof
tanks do not lean like that. Trevor mentioned that the lean is a characteristic of the Flxible Metro also.
There is a PSI fuel gauge on the right side rear of the bus.
At 500PSI ... I dunno ... but I'd start to get a little worried. I've heard (not experienced) that the engine starts to jerk/hesitate/stall somewhere around 300PSI - something about there not being enough pressure...blah...blah...blah.
Posted by Old Tom on Wed Feb 6 03:50:27 2002
A few days ago, a B/O left the bus to check the amount of CNG remaining somewhere at the back of the bus,
and returned saying there was still 500 lbs. of fuel and that the bus burned 125 lbs. per hour in operation, so we were
not in danger of running out of fuel. I was not sure whether the "pounds" she was referring to were pounds of weight or
pounds of pressure.
BTW. I have not noticed so much of a lean when the New Flyers make a turn although they also have the same sized CNG
tank on the roof.
>>> I've heard (not experienced) that the engine starts to jerk/hesitate/stall somewhere around 300PSI <<<
The incident I described where the B/O went back to check the CNG level and said there was 500 lbs. was because she was worried about a low fuel condition, and we were about to go on a freeway (LAMTA 460). In fact almost immediately after we got up to freeway speed, a buzzer started, a dashboard light came on and the bus began to have a bucking motion. Then the buzzer and light stopped and we ran smoothly for a few minutes and the light and buzzer returned and the bucking started again. The B/O notified the dispatcher, then pulled off the freeway and took a parallel surface street, still with the intermittent buzzer and bucking. This continued until I got off. The B/O mentioned that the city of L.A. will not permit refueling on the street, so if a CNG bus runs out of fuel, it must be towed to a refueling depot.
Tom
Sounds like the low fuel light. You know, I always thought a cng bus could not be refueled on the street because of the high pressure nozzle that is needed ... I could be wrong though.
Posted by Old Tom on Thu Feb 7 23:47:05 2002,
The B/O notified the dispatcher, then pulled off the freeway and took a parallel surface
street, still with the intermittent buzzer and bucking. This continued until I got off. The B/O mentioned that the city of
L.A. will not permit refueling on the street, so if a CNG bus runs out of fuel, it must be towed to a refueling depot.
You can slow fill it, but most cities don't want you doing it on the streets. At this depot we re-fill every bus every night, even if we're sure it didn't go out that day, i.e. they should be able to go all day long on one charge.
Mr rt__:^)
As I leave work in Philadelphia, I have been noticing brand-new Greyhound coaches on Market Street (passing the liberty bell, i should have a camera!) Anyone have any information on these new coaches, when they were bought, and who makes them (they look custom, ive never seen a similar design.)
Yes you are referring to Greyhound's new MCI 102-G3 (G4100) 32xx Series and G4500 7xxx Series Coaches (Pictured Below). These buses were designed by MCI with the great help of Greyhound, thus the use of the "G" in the model name/number.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Thanks Trevor, any information on the specs. I know that the old greyhound buses do not even have radios...will these be the same. Also will they replace all buses with these new coaches?
Nice looking bus. By the way many years ago Greyhound and MCI were one company. If I recall correctly when the companies were split it was the Bus routes that were sold and the company was renamed MCI
Thank You
I believe Greyhound did sell off the bus routes, but I am a little foggier on what happened next. I think eventually Greyhound sold off MCI and, subsequently, as mainly a consumer products company, renamed itself Dial Company, which is still headquartered in Phoenix, AZ.
My friend Heypaul would know, but he does take this line anymore.
Mr rt__:-(
ah excuse me
this greyhound employee saids that the G4100s are #3200-3214
the G4500s are # 7000-7125
eddie a.
If someone postd this then give me the thread, otherwise I did some digging. I remember growing up in Queens that the QV depot had received buses #1260-1289. I remember riding on buses #1274 going and #1275 coming back on the Q44A (Q46) to LIJ Hospital. Again, if someone posted this o BT with the roster info, can you direct me to that thread? Thanks. Just some memories I had of the 1200's. BTW, yes...I could be wrong....there's always room for error.
I do remember riding the M15 with lat 15xx to early 16xx back in early 80's than around 1983 i remember seeing 3001 to 3030? coming out from 126th Street Depot & 3160-3170/3199-3249 coming out from old 100th Street Depot when they first deliveries.
I believe 3025-3069 were at Flatbush at one time.
The rest of the GMC-RTS fleet were delivered as follows:
1983 RTS (TA only):
3001-3022 to 126 St (then soon moved to QV)
3023-3066 to FLA
3067-3090, PA3250-PA3251 to JAM (3250-51 were quickly moved to HUD)
PA3171-PA3200 to QV (PA3199 & PA3200 quickly moved to 100 St)
I need help remembering the MaBSTOA deliveries.
The 1984's were as follows:
3400-3486 to Fifth Ave (now JG)
3487-3577 to Walnut, Bx (now closed)
3578-3650 to JAM
3651-3748 to UP
3749-3799 to CAS
1985 RTS's
3800-3885 to YUK
3886-3899 to 100 St
3900-3984 to FLU (now Stengel)
3985-4070 to ENY (4014 is the last one there)
4071-4151 to FP
4152-4218 to 132 St (now MV)
1986 RTS's
PA4300-4357 to KB
4358-4461 to WAL
4462-4507 to the original Coliseum
4508-4553 to 126 St
4554-4599 to JAM (most are still there)
Thanks "Q5Merrick" as always! Couple of questions....I thought 3487 was with the Fifth Av fleet? Also, I thought that 1983 was the year that they stopped the NYCTA buses and MaBSTOA buses? ALL 1983 buses were purchased or went to the NYCTA according to the Ohio Museum of Transportation.
last bus at gleason of the 3400`s was 3486
Thanks "Newflyer7"
you are welcome
1983 was the first year (in a while, at least) in which the buses had one numbering scheme no matter which Authority they went to -- for example, the 1981 and 1982 RTSs: TA buses were 1xxx series, while OA buses were 2xxx series. All of the 1983 buses were encompassed in the 3001-3325 range.
David
[1983 was the first year (in a while, at least) in which the buses had one numbering scheme no matter which Authority they went to]
That is quite true, although the last new look order (1976 Flxibles) came close to being one numbering scheme. According to Bus Rosters on the Web, #9000-9156 went to the TA, while #9160-9309 went to MABSTOA. This was the only order until the 1983 RTS's in which some buses that went to MABSTOA had the same first two digits as the buses in the same series that went to the TA.
3790-3799 were soon sent to a bronx depot from castleton.
#3659-#3674 were not assigned to Ulmer Park. Those went to Fresh Pond. Ulmer Park had #3651-#3656 and #3678-#3748.
My mind is a bit fuzzy about the 3600's at FP. I think they did start out at UP, then a few after they were a few years old were transfered to FP. I am not sure of the first number, it may have been 3656, but I am quite sure that the last bus in the numerical sequence was 3680. I believe some of the lower numbers were eventually sent back to UP. The higer numbered ones ended their service life at FP. 3669 was ultimately transfered to ENY, and according to the UTC roster, it is still running.
Yes it is. I saw 3669 on the B15 this past week. She and 4014 are still going strong at ENY.
Once again, the original assignment was 3651-3748 to Ulmer Park. Around 1987-1988, buses 3656-3680 were transferred to FP, were they spent most of their lives. And yes, 3669 is still in service at ENY.
Correct, FP's 3600's came in second hand. Also include 3655 to that FP list as well. 3682 eventually made its way to FP also but sometime later than the other 3600's. Don't know about 3681 though.
Yeah, now you mention it, 3681 and 3682 may have operated out of FP for a short time before being sent back.
I think the last of the 1983's, starting in the 3290 range to the last one 3325, was initially assigned to Hudson. They were all transfered to FP I believe in 1990 when Hudson received the 8200's.
why werent there RTS numbered 3326-3399?
The 1983 RTS order was for 325 buses. Evidently, the person in charge of numbering buses for NYC Transit at the time decided that the next order should start with a "00" number...hence, the 1984 order (400 buses) ran from 3400 to 3799.
David
I guess because NYCT wants to start bus fleet numbers with a round number at the end: xx00 or xx01. Same goes for the the 1985's: last number 4218 (4219 had the next sequencial serial # and wound up operating for Hospital Audiences). The first number for the 1986's was 4300, so #'s 4219 to 4299 were not used as well.
What about 318-399? Also 681-799 and 990-994? Why weren't they used?
#996 x51
Best answer? "Because they weren't."
David
Use the same reasoning I gave previously.
What Depot did 1983 GMC-RTS 3250-3325 went? I know 3199-3249 deliveries to old 100th Street Depot back in 1983 expect 3199-3200.
David "Coolist" Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operations/Operations Planning
I believe 3252-3325 were delivered to Hudson Pier, I believe. However, buses 3250 and 3251 were originally delivered to JAM.
Mark
I remember riding on a Q5 bus in 1985 and the bus number was definately 4480.
Granted, about a month and a half later the only thing I witnessed coming out of Jamaica was 4500s.
Is it possible that some of the 4400s were operating out of Jamaica for a couple of weeks before sending them to Coliseum?
RTS 4480 in 1985? 3800-4218 were first delivered in 1985/1986.
One question which depot that have 1983 GMC-RTS #3091-#3159 when they first deliveries? BTW: i am making a list of all buses originally deliveries from 1983 & up.
David "Coolist" Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operations/Operations Planning
I'm making a list as well except that mine includes the 1981 and 1982 orders. I need the 1200's-1600's for ENY, FLA & 126 St. I have a close idea what they had but not the exact numbers.
Lemme take a crack at this:
1201-49? were at ENY, with the exception of the 1230s which was at JG for a while.
1330-1379 was at ENY
1380-1434 was at FLA, later on FLA would receive 1376-79.
1435-1479? was at FP
1480-1500? was at JG
1640-59 was at FLA.
I know Im wrong somewhere, Q5Merrick please correct where possible........
PA1430-PA1480 to UP
PA1481-PA1516 to FP
PA1517-PA1534 to FLU
When the '81's debuted I was a youngster, and didn't travel outside of Queens much, but here goes nothing
1201-1219, 1240-1259 to ENY
1220-1229 to FLA
1230-1239 to Fifth Ave
1260-1266 to FP
1267-1272 to FLU
1273-1275 to JAM
1276-1282 to QV
1283-1287 to 126
1288*-1297* to YUK
1298X*-1317X* to CAS
PA1318-PA1327 to ENY (for JFK Express)
PA1328-PA1374 to ENY
PA1375-PA1429 to FLA
PA1430-PA1516? to FP
PA1517-PA1534 to FLU
PA1535-PA1544 to JAM
PA1545-PA1569 to QV
PA1570-PA1608? to 126
PA1609-PA1634 to YUK
PA1635-PA1658 to QV(then to FLA)
As for the 1982's--well, those were a bit easier
PA1659-PA1699 to 126
PA1700-PA1734 to FLU (1700-1704 later to 126)
PA1735X-PA1749X to FLU
PA1750X-PA1759X to JAM
PA1760X-PA1799X to 5 Av
PA1800X-PA1853X to UP
PA1854X-PA1858X to KB
I am definitely unsure about the Brooklyn deliveries. Maybe someone can help with the JG and UP express deliveries.
Mark
I thought buses 1517 and 1716 were with FLATBUSH? I have the "Bus Cards" that the MTA mailed to me about 6 years ago and I saw 1517 and 1716 with Flatbush patches and the advertisment "Bon Jour" Jeans. That wa an 80's thing. I know...just like those "CATS" eyes on the back on the buses in the mid to late 80's especially on those MaBSTOA buses.
I remember seeing 1716 on the Q13 one time. Not sure about 1517 however, but I assume she was at FLU which is now CS.
#1716 Q13-OLD SCHOOL!
I agree 110% about that because I used to live in Queens and I remember buses 1705-1733 (local) and 1734-1745 (express). But this must have been an older picture of 1716. Both 1517 and 1716 rear numbers were WAY up on top. No space between the top of the bus and the bus number.
Personally, my recollections of the original assigmnments of the 1981's & 1982's is extremely foggy because when the Grummans were grounded by David Gunn, the RTS assignments were greatly shaken up. I do remember 1500's assigned to FP in their earlier years but slowly these left and additional 1200's and 1400's took their place.
5th avenue didn`t receive any rts buses till early 1984 when the first half of the new building was completed. bus 1230 did arrive at gleason on or about 1995. the 1700` s were the first rts to arrive at gleason in late 1983.at the time it was buses 1770 through 1796. 1768,69 97,98,99 were brought to gleason a couple of years later.
I thought that the 3400's were the first RTS's to arrive at 5th Ave.(Gleason).
the 1700`s were there before the 3400`s by a couple of months. they were actually at the depot right when they started to construct the new building.
I can give you the list for 126th st-yukon and castleton
Yukon:PA1606-PA1623
Castleton:PA1624-PA1649
126th Street:PA1650-PA1683
I think Gun Hill had them.
Actually, FarRock, you're a little off on the year, as 4480 is a 1986 RTS, however, YOU ARE RIGHT about Bronx buses being delivered to JAM prior to finding their permanent home. I remember some of Walnut's high-4300s and low-4400's running in Jamaica service before the 4500s came along. I know for a fact 4392, 4405, 4421 and 4427 began their lives in JAM.
Mark
I think buses PA3201-PA3253 were with 100th St? I saw that in the movies where 3223 was on Lexington Av. Also in my National Geographic book (May 1990) shows bus 3223 going uptown on 3rd Av. Maybe that's it?
1257-1266 went to FP. I think FLU had some 1280's.
1239-1256 ulmer park along with then pa1430-pa1480.
I remember riding 1480 on the S54 back in the mid-late 90s out of CAS. I think this bus had no opening windows up to that date.
GMC-RTS #1201-2704 didn't have the no opening windows & the first opening windows was GMC-RTS #3000-3325 back in 1983.
David "Coolist" Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Opearation/Operation Planning
[GMC-RTS #1201-2704 didn't have the no opening windows & the first opening windows was GMC-RTS #3000-3325 back in 1983.]
That is not exactly true. The 1981 RTS's (1201-1658; 2201-2579) did not have windows that opened, but the 1982 RTS's (1659-1858; 2580-2704) had two windows on each side that opened, as did all subsequent RTS orders.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm i didn't remember that 1982 GMC-RTS 1659-1858 & 2580-2704 had two window on each side that can open. I might have mix up & thank Sid.
David "Coolist" Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operations/Operations Planning
I remember riding on PA1435 on the B24. I also remember riding on 1459 at Belmont last year when I went to the horsetrack for the day.
Boy was 1459 delapidated-looking.
#1435 B24 OLD SCHOOL!
Bus 1459 USED to be with CS because I was on the Q28 back in 1995 in the snow. It wa a miracle that it survived those hills on Crocheron Av.
Actually, QV only received 1276-1282, then later on PA1545-PA1569.
Jamaica Depot received 1273-1275, then PA1535-PA1544, and finally Flushing had 1267-1272 and PA1515-PA1534.
About a year or so later, when RTS and Grumman Depots were established, QV sent 1545-1559 to JAM and 1276-1282, 1560-1569 to FLU. I hope this helps.
Mark
Actually, I think FLU had something like PA1517-PA1534 because FP had PA1481-PA1516 originally. 1515 & 1516 did go to FLU but probably after when FP went Grumman.
Yes you're right--FLU did have 1517-1534 originally. Thanks
Does anyone know what was the first assignment for the 1982 GMC RTS buses and which depot they went to?
The ENY depot must have gotten quite a few of them since the first ones I rode were 1213 and 1201.
flatbush had a few of the 1200's. I remember riding the B41 to school and getting #1229-it had a AC vent on the top-at least thats what i think it was.
B36-#4777
Channel 2 WCBS News At 4:30 (I Have A Satalite Dish) Spoke Of The Fare Increaces on Suffolk County Transit Effective Monday 02/11/02
Full Fare 1.50 > 1.75
Senior Fare .25 > .75
They said it would be the most expencive transit bus fares in New York State!
Pick up the Journal News Newspaper tomorrow, as the Terror of the Tappan Zee (Myself) will be in it for a article about ADA on Rockland Coaches, and I will also be in a wheelchair for the photo being boreded onto a Tappan Zee Express MCI 102-DL3.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
I live walking distance from Rockland County. Picked up the paper this morning and loved the picture, Trevor. I'll have to ask you to autograph it for me next time I see you! I assume that the bus whose lift you were photographed on is a Short Line operated bus rather than a Rockland Coach bus. I forget the exact numbers, but recollect they may be RC141-144. When the Tappan Zee operations were considerably revamped early last year, I believe Short Line wound up with the trunk routes over the Bridge and Rockland runs some or all of the rush hour shuttle buses. Is this correct?
Link To On Line Article
Yes that was a Short Line/Tappan ZEExpress MCI 102-DL3 I was being loaded on, we had that and one of Rockland Coaches/TOR's Gillig Phantoms for the demonstration. You are corrrect about the route revamping!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
Hey Trevor, can i have your autograph?
David "Coolist" Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operations/Operations Planning
Pretty Cool, Trevor!!! You are famous now! LOL!
Nice pic Trevor. Whats it really like to be on a wheelchair on a wheelchair lift looking down?
Should every Driver get put in a similar situation to let them appreciate what it like for the user?
I think its a good idea to have some sort of training like that. When I worked for MetroAccess, a paratransit provider for WMATA, one of the first things they did was put me in a wheelchair, and put a blindfold on so it would simulate what it is like to be a passenger. That driver did everything possible to make me tip over. I swear we went offroading, but it was a great way to understand how careful you must be as a driver. Thankfully, I never had to drive as I had enough drivers to cover every shift, but I had to be ready.
This was in todays Journal News. I wrote down on how much is to ride Transport of Rockland and Tappan Zee Express when the Fare's go up on April 1 2002.(> means how much it's going up to and those fares below are as of April 1.)
TOR Regular Fare: $0.90 to$1
TOR Transfer: 10 Cents
TZX Regular Fare :$1.25 to $1.50
TZX Transfer: 40 Cents
Book of 10 Super Saver Tickets: $6 to $7
With Super Saver Ticket on TOR: 60 Cents
With Super Saver Ticket on TZX: $1.05
Monthly Joint TZX/MNRR UniTicket: $44
Thanks for the info. Between TOR, Suffolk Co. and NJ Transit, there are lots of fare hikes coming in the next few months. To be honest, the TOR fares are quite reasonable, so the increases indicated above are not that terrible.
5580 on the 47 at Tuckerman/7 Locks at about 7:50
5586's front sign has been reading NOT IN SERVICE the past few days. The side sign has the correct 47 GROSVENOR/PARKSIDE reading.
Both buses are Ride-On Orion Vs from the new order.
I drove past Hwy 3 on the GCP near Francis Lewis today. In the yard is an RTS (couldn't see the number)in NYCTA colors. This bus has been there for a while.
Anyone know where the Fishbowl (ex TCC 743) is ?
Is this RTS the replacement. It still has a large ad on the drivers side and not in any NYPD colors. I realize that many things have, unfortunately, been changed due to 9/11.
One more question regarding my trip to Queens yesterday. While riding the Q-11 south from Queens Boulevard yesterday around 1:00 p.m., I couldn't believe the number of Command buses that were travelling along Woodhaven Blvd. Most were going towards the L.I.E., but there were a few going southbound also. I am guessing that Command uses the Woodhaven Blvd. routing as the quickest deadhead route between its garage and Manhattan, but I am not sure. Anyone know why Command uses Woodhaven Blvd. so much? Thanks in advance for any help here.
I think Woodhaven/Cross Bay is the easiest route to their garage.
Route BQM1 runs via Woodhaven Boulevard and Cross Bay Boulevard between Brooklyn and Manhattan. Some of these buses might have been staging for the evening peak.
Updated Rosters By TransiTALK (Credit to Q5Merrick & T-Drive Cruiser), Click The Links Below. If that annoying Yahoo! Menu comes up, just tap the up arrow to kill it.
MTA New York City Bus "List Style" Roster
MTA New York City Bus "Depot by Depot Style" Roster
New Jersey Transit Bus Roster
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Rockland Coaches B/O
RTS #3965 out of service since mid-January for entire bulkhead replacement.
why not scrap it rather than spend the money. that is a coach bus which spent time at yukon in 1998.
Damn!!!! I just saw 4014 at the Willy B Plaza last week on the B60. Shes out now. As long as she come back and is still going, then its all good.
What company is the bus from? I don't see any marking.
Robert
[What company is the bus from? I don't see any marking.]
The "Schenectady" gives it away - it must be a CDTA bus from Albany, NY. Besides, as we've posted in the past, not too many operators outside of Quebec Province operate Nova LFS's. CDTA has had at least three separate orders of Nova LFS's.
the 4800's at crosstown-why dont these buses get send to either Ulmer Park or one of the other depots that could use the buses?
#4883 is already at QV, and I'd been informed that 'many more' are on the way. Whatever that means...
i notice on gleason`s bus roster 4662 is not listed. that bus is still in the yard. we call that angel`s bus. the ront has adrape over it with a pic of angel gautier on it .God bless his soul!!!!
Trev.... how did you sneak that one in....????You were around and didnt holla at me? am i ''pissed '' at YOU!!!!!
5507 at kingsbridge
On the corner of Peninsula Blvd. and Franklin St., there is a church called the New Greater Generation Church of Christ. In their yard sits a Fishbowl numbered #416. Does anyone know where this bus started life? Could it possibly have been a Command Bus?
Hempstead Bus Corp/MSBA had a TDH-5304 that was numbered 416, so that is a possibility.
As a station agent I have to clean the swipes on the turnstiles at least once on my 8 hour shift so that people can use their metrocards. Lately I've been getting alot of complaints from people who couldn't use their cards on the bus. On my TBT I read that their cards should work fine at the turnstiles. and they do. But they don't work on the bus. I think the fareboxes are dirty. How often do bus operators clean their fareboxes?
Bus operators are not required to clean the fare boxes, this falls to the Revenue Department. If a fare box has many "READ ERRORS", the B/O is to write it up on the OVCR card, and when the bus pulls in at night, the people from revenue will take a look at the box.
At this depot a staff of four spends a large portion of their day cleaning those R/W Heads as a result of driver Defects.
Some drivers even show up at our door between runs for service.
Earlier this week a farebox eat two cards, I got a call from the complaint desk upstairs & retrived the cards. Fortunately the customer lost a unlimited card, so there wasn't a $1.50 service charge (we don't have a reader, so short of going using a reader at a subway station, the only way to check the card is to dip it). One was empty, one was a monthly unlimited, just what the customer said he lost ... it was returned to him with a smile.
Mr rt__:^)
So on the average, How often does a person from Revenue clean a farebox a day?
Once weekly, if the defect has been entered. If no defect is entered, the farebox isn't cleaned.
I use to get Head Cleaner from the Token Both all the time. I alway cleaned the F/Bs on my buses just from getting out of aguments by the people on my bus. Sometimes the clearing card after four dips came out all black, then I turn it around and it still came out black. So F/B DON'T get cleaned to offen, even after being reported. This is not alway the mantence person at the depot falt, it is most of the time the Shifter falt, by not putting the bus in the right place in the depot and giving the OVCO card to the mantence person so he can fix it.
Robert
At all token booths the turnstiles are to be cleaned at least 3 times a day. When an Agent is relieving another. And sometimes more as needed. And some stations need them.
Bus fareboxes, which handle more people daily than the average turnstile, only are cleaned once a week?
And only if there is a defect is filled out?
Correct.
Why does this suprise you? How long have you worked for NYCT?
Here's another (semi-related) tid-bit for you:
When a bus operator fills-in an OVCR (defect card) with defects, the bus is *subject to* be removed from service, and placed on the "BO" (bad order) line for maintenence. However, if the Yard SLD doesn't think your written defect qualifies as a defect, the card will be tossed, and the bus placed back in service for the next pull-out.
It gets better!
Suppose you do enter a defect that passes the judgement of the Yard SLD and the bus is placed on the BO line. If the following days service lacks enough buses to "make score", the midnight driller shift will "turn around" the BO line, meaning, trash (or remove) the defect cards, re-write them without defects and park the buses on tracks for pull-out for the morning rush (with the exception of brake or steering defects).
Truth be repeatedly told, the TA is not as interested in your safety as they are in receiving full federal funding via placing a fully scheduled fleet in-service, regardless of the safety and reliability of the equipment.
Hypocracy reigns supreme at the NYCTA.
I've worked for transit over 22 years. The last 8 with the AFC program with stations. I was with the agent who had his picture in the paper as the first agent. (But not in it!)
Stations has always been after us to clean the turnstiles at the beginning of every tour. And in the last month has been getting L/R's (Meal Reliefs I think surface would call them) to clean them some more every day. I just find it amazing that in surface the fareboxes are cleaned once a week. No wonder why I get alot of people at the change booth who complain that the buses have READ ERRORS when their cards are used.
I know transit isn't interested in the safety of their customers. But I would think they would at least be interested in getting your money.
I know transit isn't interested in the safety of their customers. But I would think they would at least be
interested in getting your money.
Knock, knock .... h-e-l-l-o
The TA already has your money if you're using a MC. If it doen't work maybe you'll throw it away & buy another.
Mr rt__:^)
True, they already have your money. For the relatively small percentage that have read or write error problems, the TA is willing to forego the transaction at the surface level because bus operators are required to ask for payment in the event of a read or write error.
However, many people who are 'in the know' purposely bend or magnetize the stripe knowing it will create a read error in the hopes for a free ride. As has always been TA policy, in the event of a problem, it is required to 'pay the fare' while noting the bus number, date, time, etc for followup and refund (if necessary).
Getting back to the cleaning of fareboxes, I don't believe they are cleaned on any particular schedule, other than a noted defect as mentioned above. But I could be wrong, I just have never witnessed such, nor heard about anyone doing any particular farebox reader cleaning.
From hereon Whenever I see a surface dispatcher or driver, I will give him (or her) a bunch of TBT cleaning cards to use.
Generous of you.
I'd like to have a few of those myself. I already have a #69 and #400 key from Rapid. Why not add to my collection? Could certainly use them. Are you by any chance coming to Queens in the near future?
What part of Queens? I won't be able to bid on a job anywhere in Queens for another 2 weeks.
I looked at the Bus Rosters on Transitalk, and couldn't find her. Last I heard she along with the other hybrids were being transferred to Mother Clara Hale Depot.
Anyone know where she is?
Tony
NovaBus-RTS #6360 & Orion Hybrids #6350-6353 & 6359 are still at Manhattanville Depot & Orion Hybrids #6354-6358 is at Mother Clara Hale Depot.
David "Coolist" Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
talk about a waste of money, the B 41`s traveling south bound after 930pm make some really wasteful not in service trips. every other bus either runs light to kings plaza or to veterans avenue after the trip from downtown. a bus going to kings plaza gets to the plaza puts a not in service sign up and travels over to veterans to make the next trip down town. and the buses to veterans go not in service to the plaza. what a waste of fuel and money
Could be they are running late and need to get back into place
Thank You
i drive it thats the schedule!!!!!! try again late at 10pm at night . i kill time to not run sharp.
Is it ture that the hawks operate as follows
Leave Kings Plaza to Tillary Street
Return Tillary Street to E. 71st St
Dead Head E.71 St to Kings Plaza
or
Leave E.71 St to Tillary Street
Return Tillary Street to Kings Plaza
Dead Head Kings Plaza to E. 71 St
Thanks
not sure about the hawks but the pm runs do exactly what you described
does any one know whats going on at DOB?
nope
well i don`t mind going not in service because i get my coffee and i can sit where no one can bother me for a few minutes
The reason is at that time there are a lot of driveres ending there days work. And in order to porvide the right level of service from kings plaza to the closing of the mall you have to dead head a few busses from bergan beach to the plaza to provide it. And further more the riding out of the beach is low enouph so the don't miss the trip.
wrong, i work it every night. my leader goes light from veterans to kp. i go light from kp to veterans.my follower goes from vets to kp. you people crack me up. i work it every night . your giving me reasons. there are no reasons . its call operational planning. throw money away.
Nope...it's scheduled that way, usually in the overnight ("hawk") period, and it saves a ton of money by minimizing recovery time at the southern terminals, thus (for example) allowing a half-hour "hawk" headway on each branch while using only four buses.
David
Dave, I don't believe he is not talking about hawks, He his talking about evening.
I know, but the B41 "switcheroo" is mainly (though not exclusively) an overnight event. In any case, the reasoning I gave (saving money) stands at other times it is done, too.
David
How do you save money
If Bus A from Tillary St goes to E. 71 St in service than runs lite to Kings Plaza to return to Tillary St in service and his follower
Bus B goes from Tillary St to Kings Plaza and then runs lite to E 71 St to return to Tillary Street in service and his follower Buc C
doesthe same as Bus A Pattern and his follower Bus D does the same as Bus B
WHERE'S THE SAVINGS IN WASTING FUEL AND TIME
If you say that saves Money than thank the good lord you do not work for me because i would fire you in a minuate
This is plain stupid and a WASTE OF MONEY
Thank You
And if I worked for somebody who didn't understand the job, I'd quit.
Look at the B41 timetable (I'm going to use overnight trips here because that's the period where most of this is happening):
The first "hawk" trip to downtown leaves Veterans Av at 1:02 AM; thereafter, they leave every hour on the :02s. The first "hawk" trip leaves Kings Plaza at 1:35 AM; thereafter, they leave every hour on the :35s. This is done so that they can be exactly 30 minutes apart along the trunk of the line on Flatbush Avenue.
The first "hawk" trip to Kings Plaza leaves Cadman Plaza at 1:58 AM and arrives at 2:42 AM. The first "hawk" trip to Veterans Avenue leaves Cadman Plaza at 2:28 AM and arrives at 3:13 AM.
Since a bus arriving at Kings Plaza at 2:42 AM wouldn't leave Kings Plaza until 3:35 AM, it instead deadheads to Veterans Av and leaves at 3:02 AM, thus saving nearly 30 minutes of wasted recovery time (contractual minimum is 3 minutes). Likewise, the bus arriving at Veterans Av at 3:13 AM wouldn't leave Veterans Av until 4:02 AM, so it instead deadheads to Kings Plaza and makes a 3:35 AM trip, thus saving, again, about half an hour of wasted recovery time.
Is there a better way to do this, short of cutting the running time (which is a disservice to the drivers and the passengers since it is not warranted) to make things "fit?"
David
i am not talking about the hawks
i am on this job 20 years and for the life of me i have never sen anything so asinine in my life like the pm schedules for the b 41. we are talking from 10 pm to 12 midnight!!!!!
First of all, I recognized that "newflyer" was talking about the late evening period. I mentioned that in my previous post and noted that I was using the "hawk" period AS AN EXAMPLE. What happens in the "hawk" period, though, also goes for the late evening: I took a look at the late evening service and observed that the cross-deadheading saves several minutes of layover every time it's done -- as much as 18 MINUTES A TRIP! Don't believe me? Look at a recap (not the customer timetable, since it does not list deadheads or recovery time).
Nevertheless, "Barry" has posted an intriguing alternate way of scheduling the "hawk," and (in another post) I've promised to pass it along. Perhaps the late evening service can be looked at as well, in the same way.
David
David,
Is it possible if you please check the hawk running time between Flatbush Ave/Ave N and E 71 St/Veterans Ave. If a bus can do this part of the route round trip in 10 or 11 minuates then why can't the B-41 hawks do a round robin service
Leave Kings Plaza in service to Flatbush/Ave N right on Ave N and in service to E 71 St and return via regular route from E 71 St St to Tillary Street
Leave Tillary St in service to E 71 St turn arond and operate in service via Veterans Ave/Ave N to Flatbush Ave and left on Flatbush to Kings Plaza
If the timing is possible combined round trip of 55 minuates than why can't the hawks do this . You still maintain 30 minuate headways from Ave N to Tillary St but instead of 60 minuate headways on each branch you can have 30 minuate headways. No extra buses but a slight increase in vehicle time because of the round robin
Another route that can be combined into one hawk run is the B-2 and B-31. The B-2 had a hawk until the 1995 cutbacks and the B-31 still has a hawk every 40 minuates i believe.
Why can't the bus leave Brighton Station every 60 minuates operate via the B-31 to Gerrittsen Beach ,turn around go back on Gerritsen to Ave R and operate via the B-2 to Kings Plaza. RETURN via the B-2 route to Gerrittsen and Ave R left on Gerrittsen to the Beach and turn around and operate via the B-31 to Brighton Station
I know that a one way trip can be done in 20/25 minuates and the driver can still have a 5 minaute recovery time
The hawk run will have to be transferred from the B-31 to the B-2 route. No change in buses or drivers (only need 1 of each)
Major headway increase from 40 to 60 minuates for B-31 passengers and a slight increase in vehicle mileage
Please let me know
Thank You
Interesting ideas...I'll pass them along. (I don't have the B41 recap in front of me, but I believe the overnight running time between Avenue P -- not N -- and Bergen Beach is in the neighborhood of 5-7 minutes each way.)
B41 passengers on the Kings Plaza branch might object to going through Bergen Beach, but (a) there aren't very many passengers overnight, and (b) it might be worth the few minutes' extra traveling time for them to get a bus every 30 minutes rather than every 60.
A B2/B31 hawk combination was considered at one time; I never found out why it was rejected, although I think there was a concern about going over a 60-minute headway (or needing a second bus) due to running time and deadheading time considerations.
David
Unfortunately, when the B57 started terminating at the Livingston St. TA building, the hawk headway had to go to 70 minutes. It was 60 when the line went to Samds St.
That is correct. It was determined that B57 overnight ridership did not warrant running a second night bus, but that the one night bus should cover the entire (extended) route rather than continue to terminate at Sands Street overnights.
However, the B41 is not the B57. There isn't much overnight riding, but it's more than on the B57 (no, I don't have numbers handy).
David
About 8 years ago, I was a regular M-F customer on one of the B57 hawk trips out of Flushing Ave/61st St. (approx 4 AM) on my way to an early AM report on the M out of CIYD. The ridership was extremely light to put it mildly! 2002 is not 8 years ago. I would imagine that ridership has picked up a bit otherwise in these fiscally prudent times, the hawk would have not survived today.
you have to take in consideration the people that transfer from the b9 and the b7 and the b82. if you throw in this round robin the connections might get thrown all off. when i go light to veterans from kp between the hours of 10 and 12,when i leave e71 street of 5 nights i am lucky if i get one passenger all week.
David,Based on the information you supplied as follows
Running time Kings Plaza to Tillary Street- 44 minuates and running time E. 71st St to Tillary Street-45 minuates here'smy schedule
Bus 1 Leaves E. 71 St- 102AM Arrives Tillary-147AM
Leaves Tillary St- 202AM Arrives E 71 St-249AM
Bus 2 Leaves Kings Plaza-135AM Arrives Tillary St-219AM
Leaves Tillary St- 232AM Arrives Kings Plaza-316AM
Bus 3 Leaves E 71 St-202AM Arrives Tillary St-247AM
Leaves Tillary St-302AM Arrives E 71 St-349AM
Bus 4 Leaves Kings Plaza-235A Arrives Tillary St-319AM
Leaves Tillary St-332AM Arrives Kings Plaza-416AM
Bus 1 2nd trip-302/347 E 71 St
402/449
Bus 2 2nd trip -335/419 Kings Plaza
432/516
etc etc
No dead heading between Kings Plaza and E71 St
what'swrong with this
Thank You
Actually, not much is wrong with it. It would require retooling the trips at the end of the day to avoid having two trips in a row (last of the day/first of the next day) go to and/or come from the same location (Kings Plaza or Veterans Avenue), but it might be workable. I'll pass it along.
David
it is not the hawks, it is the late pm runs. i do it every night and it is a total waste. after traveling to veterans light i still have 10 minutes recovery time. the only thing good about it is i can get coffee at a decent place on avenue u!!!!!
Around 9am this morning i was heading to #2 Train Station & i saw Orion #408 on Bx27 at West Farms Rd than after than the bus was deadheading back to Depot. Few months ago i saw least 2 Orion bus running on Bx28 & Bx30. I though that Orion Buses only run on Bx29.
David "Coolist" Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
I haven't heard anymore about the contract with the private lines in Queens,were they settled or will there another strike in the future.
not even close to a contract. srike is looming
As a V/R for Stations, I think for the time being I better pick jobs in Brooklyn.
What's a V/R?
(unlike you, I am sentenced to Queens for life.... with no parole.)
V/R = Vacation Relief. From the part of Queens I'm in, the nearest TA bus is 7 blocks away. Green Buses stop at my corner. I can take the A train to work. But when I have to work the other side of Queens, I take a Green Bus. I have to pay (sometimes) But it's faster than going around.
Roger Toussaint has been to this depot (twice) wiping the troops up.
The message is, the City (Bloomberg) won't give us what we want so we're going to have to get their attention.
The issues seem to be money & job security, but there are a significant number of members who are just waiting for a pension increase, then they'll be gone to their favorite fishing hole.
Meanwhile the drivers seem to have a good attitude toward the public & almost normal service is being provided.
Mr rt__:^)
The issue is the TWU local 100 health benefit crisis, and how 'regional bus' fits into the solution (which it doesn't)....
Stay tuned.
As of this coming Monday, the ST fare will be going up by a quarter. This to ride a bus line that doesn't run on Sundays or holidays and after 8pm. Makes me glad I have a car, but I feel for those people who ride the bus every day. A sign of the times I guess.
Does Suffolk Transit accept Metrocard?
Nope, SCT is own and and operated by the county not the state. So no metrocards.
Can people on Long Island Bus transfer to Suffolk Buses?
Nope, LI Bus is part of the MTA, SCT is not.
I didn't think SCT was part of MTA. I was just wondering if customers could transfer. Thanks.
Well that just about settles any argument for paying elsewhere for the ride.
Yes you can. I transfered from the N79 to the S54 at the Walt Whitman Mall a few times.
What kind of transfer? Paper transfer?
There are lots of toy bus collectors out there. Myself included. Of particular interest to me are the cardboard cut-out types. Now transit agencies have a new method to promo their services: squeeze type buses and railcars. I have gotten a few over the last few years. DC's WMATA has a neat bus; it looks like an AMGeneral in the new paint. They also have a metro rail car. Does anyone know of other agencies that have these items?
jrc
I have two of the WMATA metrorail cars and one bus. The bus is actually an Orion V. They did a pretty good job of making it seem 'somewhat' like the Orions. I've seen the metrorail squeeze toys at the National Building Museum for $5.
Yes. Rail cars always look better in "two's". I did that with the PATH squeeze toy railcars. Shudda ordered two Metro cars.
jrc
Many of the California agencies have or had the cardboard buses. Offhand, I can think of Santa Monica, LACMTA (bus, Red Line and Blue Line rail), Fresno Transit, Santa Clara valley Transportation Agency (buses and railcars). Metrolink, the southern California railroad commuter agency had a loco/cab car combo. Best bet there was to get three of them, and cut off the locos from two -- to make a three-car train which is the normal minimum trainset.
As for the "Squeeze Bus", Orange County Transportation Authority had them -- there were twoor three different versions, just very minor detail changes on each issue (the first issue had simulated doors painted onto both sides).
Thanks, Steve, for that info. I'll keep checking around.
joe
I have a cardboard HBLR, LRV vs. bus and a "squeeze" Detroit Diesel, solid blue with gray windows ... I'ld be willing to trade it for some MetroCard (in or out-of-town) that I don't have.
P.S. I also got a Mickey Ds MCI as a Christmas joke gift. Wonder if the Hamburglar snuck on :-)
Mr rt
Morning commute was uneventful. I got the T/O who alerts passengers that Grosvenor is above ground and if they wanted to avoid the rain (today it was freezing). The 37 left 3 minutes early (I barely made it) and I saw no reason for this. It was the usual driver and we didn't go any slower because of the weather, since we were only 2 minutes early when I got off. The train number was 1188, the bus was 5350A.
This afternoon, I got 5324A on the 37. The trip was a little wierd, since I normally go in the other direction. The driver was slower than the one in the morning. The 37 must be one of the only routes that does this: In the afternoon, one run is operated by Silver Spring, the other is operated by ATE (5150 was doing that trip).
Got to the platform, a train was coming in which must have just been told to Shady Grove since the destination signs were just changing. PIMS displayed the Out of Service Message until the doors opened, then changed to the right sign. A train was on the pocket with the southbound head ready but a train from Shady Grove, led by Breda 3151 came first. The seat behind the cab was taken. It seems the 35 MPH restriction is in place at the Pooks Hill portal for both directions. Got off at Bethesda, where I was informed that you are not allowed to take pictures of "special work". I was taking pictures of the leaking water in the passage from the vendors to the faregates. Went upstairs and saw 5702, meaning I now have the whole Ride-On Flxible Metro-D fleet on film to be developed. Took Cutaway 5132 home. 5298 was on the 92 (one of the trolleys), as was 5545, an Orion I, with the Route 28 free signs.
Let me also add that two of the three escalators at Bethesda were not working. Those used to be the longest in the world. Also, there was a delay on the Red Line when I was traveling, although there didn't seem to be any problems where I was.
I'm sure that there are many answers to this but Carlotte Area Transit (CATS) has a few Flxible 870's in it's fleet and from the outside they look like they been around at least for 15 years. I know the bus was around during the early years of Charlotte Transit. Some I'm guessing the 1980's. What they have done to the Flxible's here is installed automated voices for stops and the stop requested notifications. How long can the Flxible's last.
If they maintenace is top of thier game, the Flxibles could go on and on and on and on....Like the Fishbowls!
Trevor
Considering not much else is going on in Charlotte other than "fine tuning" the 2025 transit plan, these Flxibles will be around until at least 2085
Well, look at NJT, they are in the midst of a major rehab of thier 1994 Model 40102-6C8 "METRO-D" Buses and from what I understand because of this rehab these buses can do 12-15 more years easy on top of the 8 years of service they've already provided and there is still a few of the 1980 ex-TA Grumman Flxibles trucking around the state in private use, that's 22 years of service my boy!!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.org
According to "Bus Rosters on the Web," as of 11/98 there were still 8 Flxible 870's on the roster from the original 135-176 series. Charlotte Transit also received Flxible Metros 227-268 in 1992.
There all still here.
The Flxible's in the 200 number series are all still here and only a few of the 870's are still around.
Good! I remember when I was in Charlotte I used to both the 870s and the 1992s on the 7-Beatties Ford Rd route. Long last Flx!!!!!!
Are the 1992 Metros still there? I would assume so.
The 870 stopped producing in early 1983, so you know that ANY 870 is close to 20 years old right now.
The Charlotte fleet was delivered January 1983, so they are a ripe old 19.
The Charlotte Grummans are circa 1982. Are they still in service?
All three x32s bound for Queens at 3:30pm, 205th St/Paul Av, the Bronx...
Have fun!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...Cruising the Northeast Fare-free!
What's the 1st Orion? Looks like 122 and 616 are the other 2.
#616 Q46
#122 X32
PS Nice shot!!!
#619...The first bus is #619...yes, the second is #122...
Thanks, BTW, for the comment about my pic...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...Cruising the Northeast Fare-Free!
Are all three buses from QV? And yeah, what's the first number? It looks like and 500's or 600's bus.
All three buses are out of Queens Village Depot...all are the same bus route with three different services...
1- The first one, #619, was doing the Bronx-Bayside service
2- The second one, #122, was doing the Oakland Gardens service
3- The last one, #616, was doing the Jamaica service, which is combined with the Oakland Gardens service.
Does this help?
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...Cruising the Northeast Fare-Free!
A bunch of schoolkids and soft seaters? Not a good idea. But then, maybe those kids are a bit more respectful of property vs. kids in a run of the mill h.s.
Well, we are talking about kids from the prestigiuos Bronx High School of Science, here...they haven't done anything to the buses...don't be fooled by the graffiti and marker markings on the buses...that's what kids on some of the Queens Village local routes (like the Q30) do...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
what was going on
X32 Service. Bronx Hall of Science school dismissal.
#122 X32
they send Queens buses their.cool
I actually found the reason why Bee-Line's Neoplans do so well in the snow...I know it's probably VERY old news by now, but...
Them thangs got traction control! I was talking to a B/O on the 20/20X line when I brought it up...traction coupled with a DD60 and an Allison B-500R tranny, and we're talking some mean-ass shit ramming up snowy Yonkers hills...WHHOOOOOOOOSSHHHHHHHHHHH! Also, we talked about the bus have SpeakEasy technology and how #501 originally had a Detroit Diesel series 50 engine instead of a DD60, adding that it is being retrofitted with a DD50 while it's out...
BTW, about 35-36 Neoplans are in service, with about 22 M.A.N.s retired...since there is no room in the 475 (Saw Mill River Road) garage to keep them...all 22 MANs are up in a storage yard up in Yorktown somewhere...near FDR Park? lol...Those MEN (MANs) are slowly getting the boot and fast...#501-536(?) are in already with about 2-3 per week coming in, with #528-536 W/O ads...AFAIK...I went up to White Plains on the 20X and back down on the 20. A 3-hour trip (A Three-Hour Tour...like the song...lol!) Whoa, was it fun! The sound, the ride, the power! Phew!
Also on the trip I saw the following:
#503, 504, 506, 507, 509, 513, 516, 527, 528 on the 20/20X/21
#513 on the 40
#517 on the 60
#520 (I think) on the 5
#532 on the 7
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...Crising the Northeast Fare-Free!
P.S., here's the bus I rode today...
The bus is seen here sitting at the White Plains TransCenter.
One thing you have to remember about artics and traction... the MANs and Volvos are mid-engine/center-axle drive with a steering rear axle. The rear section is a true "trailer" - they're very light in the butt, so to speak. On the other hand, Neoplans, NABIs, and NFs are all rear-engine/rear-axle drive and the rear section pushes the entire bus forward. This makes a big difference.
The NJT Volvos have a locking differential for the drive axle, but that still doesn't keep the rear section from sliding around on icy roads.
Yes, kcram, I am fully aware of that...thanks for reminding me...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
Two nights ago, FX was showing "Speed." Twice during the film, they aired a commercial for match.com where a guy gets hit with a fishbowl numbered 6227 painted in turquoise and poppy red (not unlike the old A/C Transit paint scheme). Did anyone else see it?
Earlier this week, Academy started running a rush hour route from Hoboken Terminal to the Wall Street area via the Holland Tunnel. Buses leave Hoboken every 10-20 minutes from 6:30 thru 9:00 a.m. Buses return from Wall Street at 4:00, 4:30 and every 10-20 minutes until 6:30 p.m. See www.academybus.com for more details. There is no indication what the fare is. I assume they are supposed to used 96-inch buses, but I wouldn't bet on it. With PATH out of service to downtown and the ferry overcrowded, this new service should do well if publicized properly.
I saw a flyer for this service just last night at......
168St dispatchers office on the A/C lines. It looks about a 45-1hour run.
Huh? How did a bus get into the dispatchers office! And I hope it didn't collide with the column in the middle of the office! LOL!
IDK, I was just in there waiting for the A train, reading other material, and I glanced upon it. It did catch my eye......
Sid,,I checked the Academy Site,,there is no mention of this new route
Steve
Look under Wall Street, it should be at the bottom of the page.
I did check that,,did not show on the site---Academybus.com???
Click on Commuter, once you are on that page click Wall Street and Hoboken will appear on the bottom.
thank you
After only one week in service, Academy has already modified the timetable for this service. There are now 11 trips each way instead of the previous 12. The first and last trips into NYC in the AM leave later than previously scheduled. The first return trip is now scheduled 45 minutes earlier, and the last trip is 30 minutes earlier. My friend who used this service indicated an average of less than 10 people per trip. But she thinks Academy may be getting some Federal aid to run this service. Time will tell whether it will succeed.
I think time will tell, since its brand new I don't think too many people know about it. You have to think of it as this back when the PATH went to the World Trade Center, alot of people went there from Hoboken. I am sure most of those people are using services such as the PATH to 33rd Street and Port Authority bound buses. I think once it becomes a bit more popular and known to people ridership will increase.
Jason
What kind of buses are they using? RTS, MCI, or something *else* ...?
The 1983 RTS's from Newark Airport and are painted for Continental Airlines. They cant use the ex-NYCT's since they are 102 inches wide. There has been cases when a 96 inch MCI needed to be used, so mostly its RTS's but could be an MCI here and there.
Jay
This morning bus 1039 a 1999 Novabus RTS-06, Model T80-206 operated by ONE Bus crashed into a car on Central Avenue in Newark, no one knows who fault it was. I have just seen this on the news, from what it looks like though the car probably crossed into the intersection and the bus hit the rear of the vehicle. the left side of the bumper is damaged, and 10 passengers are believed to be injured in the accident. This accident occured sometime early this morning. If anyone has more info on this accident, post some info.
Tone
I saw a bus yesterday. The front sign was set for Q58 to Flushing, while the side sign was set for B24 to Williamsburg. What was strange about this was the fact that the LED's on the front sign (not the flipdots) were flashing on and off.
I love it! Amother FP bus with a defect!
What became of the Triboro #s 931 - 946 (TDH 5303).
These were originally ordered by Greyhound At The World's Fair (1964) and sold to Triboro in 1966.
At least one was sold by Greyhound to Queens Transit.
When were they retired?
These buses had folding rear doors and air operated emergency/parking brakes.
One unusual feature was that the entrance and driver area were painted in an ugly gold hue.
there are some triboro fishobwl still in the back of the garage-they dont run them anymore though.
The two fishbowls on Triboro property are in the 700 series (perhaps 719 and 721). They are in running condition and are used at special events and for charters. I think 719 is in the original cTc scheme, while 721 received a new red scheme paint job a few years back.
nope-600 series. 621 and 623. I saw them there new years eve 1999-2000. Miss riding in them though. 623 was at the Transit Museum bus Show on July 4th.
9300-b1-NOVABUS
Yes, you are correct - they are 600 series, not 700 as I mistakenly said. But the bus at Busfest 2001 was #621 - I've got a few pictures of it here at the nycsubway.org site:
Are there any other fishbowls stored by bus companies in the New York-New Jersey area?
Jamaica bus also is storing a fishbowl, inside the depot. Up until a few years ago, Jetaway Transit was using their 1971 Flxibles for the racetracks. Those buses had the cushioned seats. Eventually, Jetaway got the newer RTS's, and the Flxibles were retired. Wonder if there are any Flx New Looks still floating around? Last one I saw was bus #216 in Canarsie.
JBL's fishbowl is numbered 3001 and is owned by the Cooper family (not a DOT vehicle) It is in a suburban configuration and was once owned by Rex Bus Lines of NJ.
A handful of the 900s were borrowed by Green Bus lines in the early '80s for a short period of time. I'm not sure of the exact date.
If anyone hasnt noticed already it may be of interest that a handful of former Triboro GM new looks are running for some local Hasidic community floating around just about everywhere in NY according to the King of NY himself.
Blue in LA
Does anyone know what buses Chet Furmanek owns?
Can you post, as a response, the roster of what he has?
Thanks
PS if i mispelled his name, sorry
Why dont you contact Chet. He has a 800 number and a website.
800 329-7777 or info@centraljerseybus.com
He has an ex ACTransit (817) T6H 4523A I traded him for a NYBS (1322) T6H 5308A
How many do they have and what are the numbers? I saw and photographed 5702 at Bethesda yesterday and thought to myself I had the whole Metro-D fleet on film. Well, this morning, I see 5700 on the 37. I didn't even know that bus existed! Are there actually four buses? I had always thought it was three. 5704 is definately a 40 foot Orion V.
There is 4 of these METRO D puppies. 935700-935703 ex Baltimore 9300-9303.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Thanks. I guess I need to have another meeting with 5700 to get a photo. If my luck continues, I will see one soon, I saw the other 3 all within the past two weeks, all on the 70.
The four ex-Maryland MTA bus operating for Ride-On were originally LNG fueled (they were actually numbered 9301-9304), however there were some major problems with these buses when they were at MdMTA.
This is an exerpt from Adam Paul's Baltimore Transit web site:
Touted as the wave of the future were 4 (yes, 4!) LNG fueled buses that arrived at Northwest Division, where a fueling facility was set up. (The coaches were stored outside [at an indoor division!] for safety reasons). These coaches were almost a disaster from the start, as they generally served only small mileage trippers and the seasonal 67 line. It was rumored that they had to be used soon after fueling or the supply would merely evaporate. In any event, these buses ran no later than 1995, and were transferred to Montgomery County "Ride-On" who has spent immeasurable time trying to reconfigure the coaches to Diesel power - only finally meeting with success. About the only real innovation provided in these coaches were the Luminator "Super Max" signs.
I thought I saw a new Hybrid on Gun Hill Road last week...
in the 7000 series....Is there a site I can find out more
about them??....How many did the TA buy..or is this just a
prototype being tested..??? many thanks.....
You saw the Orion 7 that's currently running on the BX28: bus #7560. As of now it's the only 1 of its kind and it'll soon go over to JG.
I know for a fact more Orion 7 CNG's are coming but I forgot how many.
7560 is at GH for testing and so far it's so good. It refuels at QSC.
Hope this helps.
#7560 BX28
That's right she stops by for a gas & go. We even clean the windshield with a smile ... would you like us to check the oil ?
Mr rt__:^)
I'm coming to the city next weekend and I'm printing out schedules. The schedule for M6 reads Winter 2002 (sounds current) with a map and schedule showing service to South Ferry. Has service been restored to the Ferry?
The service advisories reads M6 stops at Park Place.
Is the left hand of the TA talking to the right hand?
Michael
im pretty sure srevice has been restored to south ferry on both m1 and m6. call 718 330 3000 to confirm.
The MTA website says service on the M6 (and M1) hasn't been restored to South Ferry yet. Since this is a temporary service change that can end as soon as the "powers that be" decide that buses can operate south of Park Place, it isn't surprising that the new timetables would list the regular schedules (showing service to/from South Ferry).
NYCT's (24-hour) travel information number is 718-330-1234. 330-3000 is the main switchboard.
Davdi
only problem. that is a computerized message. at 3391234 you speak to a real person. thats why i gave that number.
That's my point. 330-3000 (the number that was given) is the main switchboard and I wouldn't recommend it for travel information, though it probably has a number to push to be connected to Travel Information. The number I gave, 330-1234, is staffed 24 hours a day, though it starts out with a computerized message.
David
Today, I decided to take the bus to BCC, and while waiting for the #756 at GS Plaza at around 9:15, NJT Metro D #1802 came by on the #770 line. I caught a glimpse of the seats, and they were reupholstered with a completely different color scheme - gray with blue brushstrokes.
On the way back from BCC, I was once again at GS Plaza, this time at around 1:20 PM and waiting for the #709, when lo-and-behold, #1802 shows up again! I got a little better look inside, and didn't really notice any other changes except for the seats.
I know the Metro D's are being refurbished a little and I've been on several that had reupholstered seats, but with the same tan-and-blue stripe scheme, and new lighting, but not with gray and blue seats.
What's the story with this bus?
Is there any reason why there are no low floor articulated busses on the market!!
NewFlyer makes the D60LF. Diesel 60ft Lowfloor. Pictures of the Sound Transit D60LFs can be seen here: http://busdude.topcities.com/st_nfi_d60lf.htm
Tri-Met of Portland, OR is also ordering some. OCTA, Missasagula(SP?), Translink (Van, BC) also run them.
It have been since 1997 People in Portland that people rideing Heavy Ridership Routes have been delling with 40 Foot Buses. Once again these people would be happy to get MORE Seats on those routes
I could be wrong, but I thought that NABI and/or Neoplan also offer low-floor articulated buses. Can't think, off-hand, of anyone who has any though! (although I thought Academy was getting some from one of those two manufacturers for the Rutgers service)
Mississauga, not Missas...whatever you said...Jeez!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
To heck there aren't.
I drive one four days a week. A New Flyer D60LF. Orange County Transportation Authority in southern California has 50 of them. San Diego Transit is in the process of taking delivery of some right now. Community Transit (Snohomish County, Washington) has 'em. Vancouver, British Columbia has 'em. A handful of other Canadian properties do too.
Hi Steve,
OCTA Orange County CA has "50" D60-LF`s?
Apart from the 7200`s and 7300`s....what numbers are the others that take the total to 50?
Dave.
The US has the CHANCE OPUS bus. This is based on a design by WRIGHT a bus builder in Northern Ireland.
Over here it has a bigger sister AND a bigger sister Articulated version.
Im not sure how to post an image on this site,however if you mail me I will send you a JPEG of each.
Both of the bigger versions would do well in the US market--perhaps CHANCE have this in mind.
I haven't taken either of these buses to the Sunrise Mall in awhile.
I wound up waiting nearly 45 minutes in Hicksville because the schedule of these buses have changed. When the bus came (expecting an 81) there was an 80, so asked what happened to the N81. The driver told me they changed the schedule in January and I took new schedules.
Service on the N80 and 81 has been cut back. Each route ran hourly, so if you're traveling from Sunrise Mall to Hicksville and vice versa the headway between N80/81 was 30 minutes.
But under the new schedule, each route runs roughly every 90 minutes, so it's about a 45 minute wait, definately not a good thing for riders in Massapequa and Bethpage.
I always wondered where they were getting the extra buses from for those N20 Great Neck runs. Now I know. It is a light ridership route so they can pretty much get away with the longer headways on the N80/81.
As far as the Sunrise Mall is concerned, they are building a food court where the Wiz was. The bus stop is still on the eastern edge of the parking lot but now has Suffolk buses stopping there as well.
There is a place in Queens if you guys out here are still looking for the Road Champs Flixible Buses. These are what they have left:
DART
CTA
they had AC Transit and another DART, but i bought them. The guy charges $9 each. Here is the address.
30th Avenue and 37th Street
Queens
N or W to #30th Av
or Q18 bus or Q101 bus.
Get them while they still have them
For those of you who haven't visited the website, here's the address:
http://www.qvdepot.com
You may or may not find it interesting. It's not from or for the perspective of the busfan, but rather from and for the employee. But you never know... so here it is for those concerned.
Here's a photo of #3920 on the S79 line (yes, sporting Yukon stickers) at Hylan Blvd/Tysens Lane, in New Dorp, Richmond County (Staten Island). This is one RTS that you don't usually find down here...
(Among others I saw today:
#8293 (repowered), #8300, #4889, #4893, and former Gun Hill RTS #4482, ALL on the S79 today.)
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...Cruising the Northeast Fare-Free!
If you like 3900's, pop on by Queens Village. We have more than enough of those relics to view... some even without a tow or road truck.
LOL...no thanks...I'd rather stick with TMCs or Novas anyday.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
Add 2270 - She was working the S79 today also - nothing has been done though with the hole for the rear destination sign.
Some kid can hold on and ride in the back of the bus by inserting his hands into that hole!
Since the danger bus doesn't want the GMCs, I'll come get them.........
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
Well.. you know where we keep the keys....
:-)
where you been. i drove 3920 last spring on s61 several times. its one of yukons better rts buses. no other rts have come sinc spring of 2001 to yukon.
Hey - whatever happened to 3963 at Yukon - I sometimes rode this one to HS on the S78 - it was the only 3900 series bus I remember YUK having back in the mid-late 90s. Why have just one 3900 when they had almost all the 3800s and then the 4800s?
3963 went to castleton and back to queens. brooklyn 67 may know if its still active.
3963 is scrap. 3965 was at UP and then at FLA but now she's active at QV. I remember riding 3920 on the Q17 a few years ago. 3944 I remember was a QV Bus-rode her on the Q46. I rode 4482 on the S55 last year when I was at SI.
#4482 S55
#3920 Q17
#3944 Q46
PS Nice shot of 3920.
WAIT A MINUTE! How could #4889 be doing in SI when it's out of FP. I been on #4889 once on Q54 and it had FP Stickers on it!
OK, maybe it wasn't #4889, BUT IT WAS A 4800 series bus...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Old Cruisers On One End.....
The CNG Cruisers On The Other.....
And The New Cruiser Careening Around & About....
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
Beautiful shots as always, Trevor. Nice aerial view!
BTW, was the Red & Tan Lines MCI MC-9 you depicted a couple weeks ago under the subject "Dashing through the snow" a former NJT unit? I seem to recall it had a so-called "Jersey box" signboard . . .
C
Thank You!
That "Cruising in the Snow" photo was a bus that I was driving that day. It's one of 20-30 buses that Rockland has contracted from NJ Transit. It is a NJT Bus, when the rest of the D4000 Cruisers come in for us (Around May), these MCI 9A and 9B Cruisers will be gone forever!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
Too bad about the outgoing MCI-9As and Bs. I wonder who'll buy the used units from them . . . Thanks for the prompt response, though! It's interesting that even though you quit working for NJTransit, you can't get away from their equipment ;-).
Have a good one!
C
I know, but its cool, I can't stand NJT but I love the MCIs!!!!!!!!!
ESPECIALLY THE 9Bs and the D4000s
Regards,
Trevor
During the past two days I learned why public transportation will not replace the automobile in Southern California anytime soon. I went on a bus odyssey that matches those taken by Qtraindash7. I am providing bus route numbers for those who are familiar with Southern California buses, and the types of buses for all the bus fans.
As background, I try to visit a friend of mine for dinner once a week. She lives about 35 miles away in Upland CA. Wednesday I planned to make that trip, to arrive there about 7:00 P.M.
On Wednesday, I had to go to the local Office Depot store to make copies and buy envelopes so I could send copies of various documents in the mail that day. My travels (and travails) were as follows:
10:00 A.M. I caught a (Norwalk 9) RTS
10:12: A.M. Transferred to a (LAMTA 111) New Flyer C40
10:20 A.M. Transferred to a (LAMTA 460) NABI
10:36 A.M. Transferred to (LAMTA 115) New Flyer C40 which arrived at Office Depot Store at 10:40, made 305 copies, purchased 500 envelopes and returned to the bus stop by 11:00 A.M. to catch the bus due at 11:05 A.M.
11:25 A.M. The (LAMTA 115) New Flyer C40 finally arrived. Because of this 20 minute delay, I missed my next connection and instead of getting home at 12:05 P.M., I did not get home til 12:45 P.M.
12:07 P.M. Transferred to a (Norwalk 4) Gillig Advantage
12:30 P.M. Transferred to a (Norwalk 3) RTS which got me home at 12:45 P.M. I planned to catch the 3:45 bus later to go to the post office, and later to Upland, but because of the delay in arriving, I was not done addressing stuffing and weighing the envelopes for the proper postage until 4:00 P.M., which meant I would have to wait till 4:45 for the next bus.
4:45 P.M. Caught the (Norwalk 3) RTS to the post office, mailed the stuff I prepared, and waited for the next bus due at 5:40 P.M. which would take me to downtown L.A.
6:00 P.M. Caught a (LAMTA 460) NABI which was 20 minutes late. The driver made good time though so we arrived in downtown only 5 minutes late at 6:40 P.M. Unfortunately as we approached the intersection where I had to change buses, the bus I wanted to catch was crossing, so I missed it.
6:48 P.M. Transferred to a (LAMTA 58) Bluebird to go to Union station where I hoped to catch the last Commuter Express bus (Foothill 699) at 7:00 P.M. The bus got to Union Station at 6:57 P.M., but one block before the station, the bus I was trying to catch turned onto the street immediately before us running 3 minutes early. At Union Station, the bus loading area is a rectangular island. If you imposed an elongated clock face on it, the freeway buses enter at the 7:00 o'clock position and leave at the 5:00 o'clock position. There are stop signs at the 9:00 o'clock and 3:00 o'clock positions for pedestrians and buses entering from the street. The bus I was trying to catch stopped at the 2:00 o'clock position, and the bus I was on stopped at the 10:00 o'clock position. Although I was the only passenger on the Bluebird, and the there were no passengers waiting for that bus, the B/O would not let me get off the bus at the 9:00 o'clock stop sign where I could have crossed and waved at the Foothill driver to wait for me, but insisted that I stay till we reached the 10:00 o'clock position. As I got off that bus, the one I wanted to catch was just closing its doors and pulled up to the 3:00 o'clock stop sign. Since I was now behind it, I missed it. That bus was scheduled to arrive in Upland (Montclair Regional Transit Center) at 8:21 P.M., but because it is discharge only at various park 'n rides after it leaves downtown L.A. and it runs on the freeway, it usually gets there before 8:00 P.M. I waited till 7:10 P.M. in the forlorn hope that I had missed an earlier bus running late rather than the last bus running early. I went into the station and looked at the Metrolink (train) schedule. There was a train leaving at 7:55 scheduled to arrive in Upland at 8:45. I also looked at my Foothill schedule and saw there was a bus leaving at 7:26 P.M. due to arrive at Upland at 8:57 P.M. The bus stop for this bus was way on the other side of the station, but the bus would save me $3.50, so I hiked through the station to get to that bus stop. Once I was there I waited until 7:40, and was just getting ready to go back into the station to catch the train when a Foothill bus turned the corner. Since the next one was not due till 8:16 P.M., I assumed this was my bus running late.
7:40 P.M. boarded a (Foothill 480) Gillig Advantage. The head sign read West Covina rather than Montclair, but relying on the schedule, I got on anyway. The bus got to West Covina at 8:19 P.M. and went Out of Service. In the dim light at the bus stop I had read the wrong schedule. I was reading the Sunday schedule which had no Short Turns. The weekday schedule had Short Turns in West Covina for buses at 7:30, 7:40, and 7:55 P.M. The next 480 that pulled up to the stop was also going Out of Service, but it was interesting because it was a Gillig Advantage with all perimeter seating. The first time I had seen that configuration.
8:49 P.M. A (Foothill 480) Gillig Phantom going to the Montclair Transit Center finally arrived. It got to its destination 15 minutes early at 9:45 P.M., where my friend picked me up in her car. A total of five hours of travel by bus to go a distance I used to drive in about 45 minutes.
The following day things got worse. I woke up at 6:50 A.M. and rushed like mad to dress and get my personal possessions together so I could catch a bus two blocks away at 7:15 A.M.
7:15 A.M. caught an (Omni 68) RTS to the Montclair Transit Center.
7:24 A.M. transferred to a (Foothill 699) soft seated Gillig Phantom for the ride to downtown L.A.
8:30 A.M. Transferred to a (DASH D) National E-Z Rider at Union Station to go to the Federal building where I had to deliver some papers. While waiting on line to go through the security checkpoint, I had to remove all the metal from my pockets, and lo and behold, I found an extra set of keys. When I had been in such a rush to leave, I had picked up my friend's house and car keys. I immediately called her and told her that I had her keys. She had just begun to look for them so she could drive to work, and did not have a spare set. The office where I had to deliver the papers opened at 9:00 A.M., so I delivered the papers and left to return the keys.
9:07 A.M. I caught a (DASH D) National E-Z Rider back to Union Station where I checked the Metrolink schedules. There were no trains between 8:58 A.M. and 11:30 A.M. and the 11:30 train did not get to Montclair until 12:27 P.M. Once again, I schlepped through the station to the place where the local buses stopped out front.
9:25 A.M. I boarded a (LAMTA 490) Flxible Metro which was at the bus stop when I arrived. I planned to call MTA trip planning to find out what bus to transfer to while riding on this bus, but got a busy signal. I asked the B/O where was the best place to transfer to go to Montclair and he suggested El Monte Transit Center. It was a 13 minute trip to El Monte so I checked the various schedules I had and found there was a Foothill 480 only two minutes behind us.
9:43 A.M. Transferred to a (Foothill 480) Gillig Advantage at El Monte which arrived at Montclair Transit Center at 11:12 A.M.
11:15 A.M. Transferred to an (Omni 66) RTS which dropped me off a block from my friend's house at 11:30 A.M. I returned her keys and she then dropped me off in Pomona on her way to work.
12:26 P.M. Caught a (LAMTA 484) Flxible Metro to the El Monte Transit Center which arrived at 1:50 P.M.
2:00 P.M. Transferred to a (LAMTA 270) Orion VI to head back to Norwalk, arriving in Santa Fe Springs at 3:00 P.M. By this time I was very hungry and stopped for lunch, letting two buses go by.
4:12 P.M. Caught a (LAMTA 362) NABI for the ten minute ride to the post office to pick up my mail on the way home.
4:55 P.M. Caught a (Norwalk 3) RTS for the final ride home arriving at 5:05 P.M.
This was total of 23 different buses on two days totaling 14.5 hours of riding and waiting for buses.
I trace many of my problems back to that 20 minute late bus at 11:05 A.M. on Wednesday. Because it was late, I was 40 minutes late getting home, which in turn caused me to be an hour later leaving home that afternoon, which resulted in missing the last Commuter Express bus of the day. The extra bus travel that evening made me oversleep the next morning which caused me to rush to leave. That hurry resulted in me picking up the wrong keys which in turn resulted in all the extra bus riding I had to do on Thursday to return the keys. OTOH, it sure was bargain travel. The total out of pocket cost for all this travel (after purchasing a $12.00 monthly bus pass) was $1.60.
Tom
Wow! That's quite an odyssey, Tom. As you noted, I don't think that buses can be remotely compared to private automobiles for running errands and other multi-leg trips -- however, they work quite well for simple A-to-B commuting. Sounds like you had fun, though. ;)
C
Only in NYC can one have a multi-leg trip fairly easily because buses and subways run fairly often.
Today I wanted to go to Sunrise mall and Levittown. Left 9:32AM and got to the mall at 12 noon because I had to wait 45 min in Hicksville because the schedule was changed for the Sunrise Mall bus.
Then I took the bus (N71) from the mall to Levittown where I briefly stopped at a used CD store. Got the 2:51pm N70 to Hempstead, supposed to arrive at Hempstead at 3:19pm, plenty of time to catch the 3:37pm N27 to Glen Cove. it ran 10 minutes late and I got to Hempstead at 3:30pm, and ran across the terminal and just made the N27 as it came a minute after I got to the stop. N70/71/72 buses running into Hempstead get packed at around NCMC.
After stopping in Greenvale for dinner I head home, make it back at 6pm.
Taking the bus in the "burbs" and non transit friendly cities like LA can take at least 3 times longer than by car.
That last statment I D K....
Because I live in a Jersey Suburb and I have one of only 3 24-Hour NJT Bus Service with a 20-40 Minute overnight headway. Weekdays its like 10 minutes, Saturdays its 20 minutes and sundays its 30 minutes.
So its "some" suburbs you are screwed!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
>>> Because I live in a Jersey Suburb and I have one of only 3 24-Hour NJT Bus Service with a 20-40 Minute overnight headway. <<<
That sounds like the big city to me. My local line runs hourly from 6:00 A.M. to 6:00 P.M., on weekdays, and bi-hourly from 10:00 A.M. to 4:00 P.M. on weekends.
Tom
The last bus of the day shouldn't be running early...
I have only done one 'last bus of the day' assignments...and i made shure I always ran a little late.
Posted by Old Tom on Fri Feb 8 22:27:03 2002
Transferred to a (LAMTA 58) Bluebird to go to Union station where I hoped to catch the last Commuter
Express bus (Foothill 699) at 7:00 P.M. The bus got to Union Station at 6:57 P.M., but one block before the station, the
bus I was trying to catch turned onto the street immediately before us running 3 minutes early. As I got off that bus, the one I wanted to catch was just closing its doors and pulled
up to the 3:00 o'clock stop sign. Since I was now behind it, I missed it.
>>> The last bus of the day shouldn't be running early. <<<
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Unfortunately there are those B/Os who's priority is getting back to the garage as quickly as possible. With the Foothill 699, at least there are alternate (much slower) buses running over the same route, and the last express bus usually has less than ten passengers since it is picking up the stragglers of the downtown office workers.
Tom
Today comming back from Jamaica, I saw a coach, NYCTA paint scheme. It had a large green LED sign "Express" on the front. There was no one inside but the driver since it was a dark. The back had couple of round LED stop lights. It was some sort of NYCTA coach. Anyone know what type of bus this was? A Viking? MCI Cruiser?
Probably Viking 996 on the X51 deadheading back.
More than likely you just saw a viking!!!!!!
Trevor
In a recent United States Postal Office incident, someones mail was incinerated by a X-Ray machine that scans for anthrax.
Apparently the X-Ray machine was giving off a immense amount of heat, the Postal worker put the letter on the machine and walked away, when the worker returned, the letter was barbequing in its own ink on the machine!
Hmmmmm, makes you wonder about letters you've never gotten!!!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Hey...
Be careful what you say about the USPS. In many ways, the Postal Service is a close cousin of transit. If anything, I think the USPS is a model for transit operations: It is a highly marketable, financially responsible, competitive, comprehensive service that operates solely as a service to the people, not for a commercial profit. I would love it if transit authorities could be just the same way.
yes but have you ever heard of anyone losing it going transit?
Oh well, the post office like everyone else, makes mistakes. We should be thankful that we have the best postal system on the planet.
According to my sources, 7560 has to undergo another 30 days of testing due to failure with the kneeler and the wheelchair lift.
30 days of testing because of a kneeler malifunction?? That sounds absurd... Fix the kneeling device. As far as a ramp failure, can be manually deployed. For a bus to be out of service for 30 days due to that is ridiculous.
Have you heard of the MTA's Subway 30-Day Testing, its the same thing. The Kneeling and WC system is a major component of the TA's equipment. If this buses sytems have failed with in the initial 30-days, the TA has EVERY right to have Orion fix the problem and restart the clock, just like they do with thier Millennium R-142 and R-143 Subway Cars.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Why does orion 7 have a wheel chair lift. Isn't the point of low floor buses is to remove the expensive wheel chair lifts?
No, the point of low floor buses is to help out people who can't walk well, but don't use a wheelchair. I showed my pictures of these buses to my mom (who has Multiple Schelrosis) and she said from the looks, it would make it much easier for her to board. Only one step, and it's not that steep.
[Isn't the point of low floor buses is to remove the expensive wheel chair lifts?]
That is a good question, and I don't have a ready answer. Perhaps it is not really a lift but a mechanism (i.e., ramp) to allow wheelcheers into the bus. I have observed New Flyer Low-Floor buses in Phoenix (Valley Metro) and there is a ramp that slides out from the bus to the curb.
Low-Floor coaches do not have a Wheelchair Lift, rather a ramp. Basically, it is a floor board that rises up, flips out to the curb and then is stowed back. Both the Neoplan LF and the New Flyer LF have a manual over-ride that allows the operator to physically deploy the ramp and then physically stow it back. This completely eliminates wheelchairs from getting passed up as even if the automatic mech fails, the operator can still manually operate the ramp. Also, W/C maintance which is timely and expensive is eliminated as well as service calls for a unit that has a jammed lift or somebody stuck on the lift.
The only bad thing is that the front end of a Low-Floor is lighter than a high floor coach with a front loading W/C Lift and thus they slide a bit more in snow and bad weather. That is the case at PAT which has the Neoplan LF coaches.
For instance, in one snow storm, I rode to West View in one of the Classics on the 500. Our operator ran it with all 5 gears avalible the whole way. A few times the tires spun, and it slide a little a few times. I went back to Downtown on the 500 again, this time in a Neo LF and by this time, the roads were more salted and the snow had let up and we had a very cautious operator who ran the bus with only the first 2 gears, but this bus was all over the place. We slid many times, the highlight was sliding through a stop sign. The best PAT buses in the snow are the Orion V coaches by far.
The New Flyer Low-Floors here in Erie seem a bit less prone to sliding than the Neo's, but the other day there was an accident in which one slid into a house and ended up cracking the foundation quite badly. Two years ago my one friend who is an operator always wrote than 9757 up for pulling to the left in the snow. LOL Check out the pic...
It won't be out of service, it will have it's test extended another 30 days in passenger service.
1 If a Person pays in Coins and/or Tokens on a Express Bus. Can they get a Paper Transfer?
2. Why Express Buses don't take the 1 Day and 7 Day Passes?
3. Why Most Express Bus Routes only run doing Rush Hours when some of them could run on Weekends?
Thanks!
1- There are no transfers for people who pay with tokens and/or coins...only passengers with MetroCards can transfer to a local bus or another express bus, like I did Friday.
2- As to why they don't accept Fun Passes and 7-day unlimiteds? Well, idk...my guess is...they aren't routes where any ol' person can get on...those Unlimited Cards are used by people who use the subway and local bus often and are not going to use the more expensive express bus every day IMHO.
3- The majority of express customers are commuters in the downtown areas that mostly travel during rush hours, going to work before 9AM and leaving work at or around 5PM. If you offer all of those same services on the weekends, there'd be very few riders needing to use it and it'd be a waste of time to operate them. Plus, there might not be that many B/Os that are up to the job, working 7-day weeks as opposed to their 5-day weeks only doing commuter routes...idk about that...
Anyone else can explain the last two questions, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
Thanks. As for Question to #1 was that in the MTA Timetable for the X63 that I have says that "If you pay your bus fare with Coins or Tokens,You can get a FREE Paper Transfer to Another Bus"
Dont' know about that one...got me there...
1 If a Person pays in Coins and/or Tokens on a Express Bus. Can they get a Paper Transfer?
Yes.
2. Why Express Buses don't take the 1 Day and 7 Day Passes?
Because these cards are local bus "time validated pases" which do not have monetary value, other then the $4 or $17 local bus fare paid at the time of purchase, which is electronically deducted via successive use.
You must use the express-bus fare metrocard, or express-bus pass for use on express buses.
3. Why Most Express Bus Routes only run doing Rush Hours when some of them could run on Weekends?
Express service, for the most part, is operated in 'peak direction' during 'peak hours', meaning, express service runs in the direction of rush hour travel to accomodate those going to work in the mornings, and coming from work in the evenings. The direction of peak direction is related to the adjacency of the borough of Manhattan.
The express service offered by NYCT doesn't meet capacity qualifications (ridership levels) for sustaining service at other times. While some private bus companies offer weekend and off-peak express service, NYCT does not.
Thanks.
1. If NYCT don't run Express Service on Midday Hours and Weekends. Then how come X1.X10,and X17 run doing those times?
2. There's some routes that can be used on weekends for people that just want to spend the day in the city like for example from a Aera that don't have a LOCAL Bus to a Subway Station. Can it be Possable?
1. X1, X10, and X17 obviously have the ridership base to run during those hours, otherwise, they wouldn't.
2. Obviously not. Clearly those people want to drive or the MTA will give them a local bus to the subway first. Unless it really makes sense to run an express bus all the way into the city, it won't happen. Besides, the local/subway option has more frequent service.
no paper transfers are issued on express buses.
They used to be - i have one somewhere.
no paper transfers were issued since the advent of metro card fareboxes. i believe that was in 1995. before that they were issued.
1. If NYCT don't run Express Service on Midday Hours and Weekends. Then how come X1.X10,and X17 run doing those times?
Because Staten Island has no rapid transit service to the outer boroughs. Had Staten Island a subway connection, there would be no express service other than during peak direction rush hour service. As a general rule, express service is only available towards manhattan in the morning, and back in the evening. There are a few exceptions, however, and your example is one of them.
2. There's some routes that can be used on weekends for people that just want to spend the day in the city like for example from a Aera that don't have a LOCAL Bus to a Subway Station. Can it be Possable?
Probably not. NYCT isn't interested in tourism. There's always a bus connection to a subway station, even if that means two or three buses on weekends. Or walking a short distance to and/or from the station.
Also, as an aside, most NYCT express bus operators pick these runs because they are off weekends, and because (many) only make 4 trips daily. They also pay the most money, and are known as 'swing runs' (large break between halves).
HTH
Except for the x1, x10, and x17 (in some instances, the x27 and, I think the x28).
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
I realize I'm probably going to open a can of worms here, but here goes: What did people do prior to the late 1960's to go from the outer boroughs to Manhattan? They took the SUBWAY! Even in the old "2 Fare Zones", people took a LOCAL BUS to a SUBWAY! I realize that times have "changed", but if anything, in certain aspects, times have changed where express buses are no longer needed. For example, 20 years ago, if you wanted to go from Nostrand Ave and Avenue Z in Brooklyn to midtown Manhattan, it was preferable to simply ride the BM-3 express bus. The alternative was paying 2 fares and riding an un-air conditioned bus to the un-air conditioned, graffiti strewn subway. Today, with a Metro Card, the transfer is free. The bus, though most likely an RTS, is usually air conditioned and tolerable, and the subways today are much more clean and comfortable than they were 20-25 years ago.
The other problem with express buses is that it takes forever to get from the beginning of the line until it gets to the "express" part of the route. Regarding the aforementioned BM-3, by the time you get to the Prospect Expressway, you would be in Manhattan already via the subway!
I don't have exact figures, but didn't ridership on New York Bus Service routes in the Bronx go down as the equipment on the #6 Train improved and the free bus to subway transfers were introduced?
With the exception of Staten Island, express buses, in my opinion, are a LUXURY, not a necessity.
Express bus service provides a one-seat ride at a premium price. The subway probably is much faster than routes like the BM-3 and X27 but the demand is there. Political considerations also enter into the equation. The NYCDOT franchised express buses are heavily subsidized by the city yet you don't hear much talk of redcucing or eliminating the subsidy. The MTA has been crying for years that their express routes are money-losers (along with the rest of the transit system) and yet they keep the routes in operation.
the x27super express is a much nicer ride than the subway. its alot more comfortable and for the people that ride it need to take a bus to the train any way.shore road isn`t exactly around the corner from the subway station.
there is also a rumor that the X27,X28 and X29 will return to their regular route via Broadway within 2 weeks(just a rumor)-but is it true?
It's something NYCT wants to do, but won't until traffic conditions on lower Broadway (southbound) and on Church Street (northbound) allow it. Two weeks? Best answer is, "maybe."
David
Website Update: New Las Vegas Citizens Area Transit Section to NA Transit
Fleet Number: 206, 201, 208, 204, 205 and 260
Bus Route: N/A
Retired Grumman 870.....
NA TRANSIT
I did not see this in the BT Archives...if it's there then please give me the thread on this. I was riding L & G IBOA bus #21xx and this bus (I thought) was suppose to have the same engine as the ex-NYCTA Grummans...It did not! It sounded like the Flxible Metro's (3000-3280, 3500-3605). I guess all of them (the Grumman rebuilds) were like that....which explains why buses 2300's and 2400's and 2500's have a bigger destination signs than buses 2000-2299. I apologize if this is a repeat question.
Well, IBOA sometimes do engine upgrades on there own. But as far as 2000-2299 not having big signs, that is not true. The reason why the 2300's, 2400's and 2500's had big signs was that most of them were operated by NJ Transit. NJ Transit did have 2000, 2100's and 2200's and they featured the big signs. Most of the 2000-2299 were operated by contractors though with manual signs.
I have been through hell in Center City Philly. Thanks to the NBA All-Star game, and all of the gawkers (looking for the rich and famous), much of Center City is in a state of gridlock. Every SEPTA and NJT bus route down there are off schedule, with delays upwards to 1/2 hour or more. This mess will last all weekend. Consider yourself warned about the treffic conditions. But you might get sightings of all the athletes, rock, rap, movie, and TV stars on Market St around the Hard Rock Cafe, Mariott Hotel, and Reading Terminal area.
I had gridlock problems of a different sort yesterday. The 109 and 113 buses were delayed anywhere from 5-15 minutes yesterday due to utility crew work on Baltimore Av in Lansdowne Borough. The westbound 109 was forced to detour off of Wycombe Av and operate via Stewart Av and Lansdowne Av to Lansdowne & Baltimore. The 109 eastbound was detoured via Lansdowne and Stewart to Union Av (where the Lansdowne Acme supermarket is located). There were a lot of traffic problems along Stewart between Wycombe and Lansdowne, which caused the 113 to run very late. My 4:30pm trip didn't arrive in Collingdale until around 5:10pm (it's due there at around 4:53pm).
On Friday, I made the mistake of going into Center City. At around 1:00pm, I had only seen 1 or 2 SEPTA buses pass by 12 & Market, when there's usually several going by in a 10-15 minute span. The bus that I did see - a NABI on the 17 - was overcrowded to the point where we had to pass by some passengers at 13 St.
This weekend was TOTAL HELL in Center City. My NJT Rt 403 was running around 40 minutes late, a disaster on a Sunday Schedule. The average trip time on Market Street has been tripled due to the extremely heavy traffic. The throng at 12th Street is holding up all of the traffic. \
On another subject, it seems that Coach USA has sent a horde of buses from North Jersey down here. Every company it owns in NJ is represented, and a lot of them sent their 85xx D4000's on the shuttle runs. All total, the amount of shuttle buses number around 100. Another company represented is Academy. They sent down some of their 86xx D4000's for the shuttles.
But it will be nice when we get our city back.
I LIVE IN CENTER CITY...AND DECIDED TO GET OUT OF DOWNTOWN ON SATURDAY NIGHT. AFTER DINNER AND A MOVIE IN MANAYUNK, I DROVE BACK DOWNTOWN AT ABOUT 1230A. AFTER GETTING OFF 676 AT 15TH STREET IT TOOK NEARLY 45 MINUTES TO GET FROM RACE STREET DOWN TO MARKET, THEN ANOTHER 20 MINUTES TO GET TO MY PLACE ON 21ST....
ALTHOUGH IT WAS EXCITING WITH ALL THE EXTRA TRAFFIC IN TOWN....IM GLAD ALL WILL BE BACK TO NORMAL MONDAY.
2 QUESTIONS, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW HOW LONG THE DELAYS LASTED OVER THE WEEKEND, DOES SEPTA/NJT KEEP AND PUBLISH THOSE TIMES? AND WHY DID SEPTA SEEM NOT TO REALLY ENCOURAGE USE OF SEPTA OVER THE WEEKEND (THE EL WAS STILL USING IT'S BUS BRIDGES)
The All-Stars have left town, and we got our city back. Now the gridlock is totally of our making, and not from all the limos and star-gawkers. This weekend was a total mess. Traffic was mostly standstill in Center City, and it was worse on South St, prompting SEPTA to put on its Weekend night reroute of the 40 bus on Sunday afternoon.
The delays and the overcrowding caused by the All-Star "If you got it, flaunt it" fest made for some intertesting bus watching. The delayed NJT buses often left Philly mostly filled, and the usefulness of the articulated buses was seen in a nearly-packed 33 bus going west on Market st. The crowd on the one bus would have overwhelmed maybe 3 or 4 NeW Flyers or 2 Neoplans/ Nabis. That was one of the best things SEPTA did in buying 155 artics. (one of the few bright things done by these nitwits).
Did your employer (Coach USA-Rockland Coaches) send you down here on Shuttle duty? I saw many a Coach USA bus from several companies, like Rockland, Suburban, Olympia Trails down here in Philly this past weekend.
Nope, I'm off on the weekends, thank god!!!!
Regards,
Trevor
That's a pretty good deal for someone who recently started with the company!
Dont worry rookie, youll be paying your dues.........:):)
Thats right, weekends dont last for long when your new. When it comes time to pick your run and your off the extra board you will no longer consider Saturday and Sunday your weekend (I know you are already aware of this). Honestly I like working the weekend and would much rather have Thursdays and Fridays off. Those seem to be the worst days for driving in Manhattan. Working weekends at Liberty has its advantages since i get to pick my own bus which makes my day much more enjoyable.
Peace,
Kevin
LLE Operator
Ive gotten used to working the weekends. Life's a lil bit easier on the weekends. The jobs are easier, less people to deal with etc.......
Last August Township council voted to give their Route 18 Park And Ride Line to Academy. Academy was to take this line over on October 1stbut on September 18th, an appeals court granted an injunction sought by Suburban.
The Judge said that neither company met all the requirements for this $14.3 million contract. The mayor and and council must make the decision on who will operate this contract. The Township is using the judges advice and will do a rebid on the line. Suburban is still operating the line with no contract. The number one complaint about Suburban's service is no room on the buses, and even coming 10 minutes early didn't always help. People were being sent to the next bus.
Is this East Brunswick Township you're talking about?
Yes, The East Brunswick Park/Ride Contract.
Hmmm, I'm not too fond of either one. I ride the 139 and try to avoid the Suburban/Coach USA busses. Many people I ride with don't like them either. They use old NJT 6000 series buses or the charter-type busses. Either way, they suck.
Friends who take the Academy Buses don't like the service, either. Other areas that Academy serves, gets new buses. I have yet to see new ones on the Route 9 run.
I think Academy will be deploying their NJT-owned D4500s on their US 9 service once they arrive later this year.
Academy's route 9 service is to Wall Street via the Holland Tunnel, thus they have to wait for the 96-inch D4000N coaches to arrive. Suburban has not really received their allocation of NJT MCIs; those are expected in this year's batch of 325. NJT and Suburban will both be using D4500s on the #139.
Well, Academy has both D4000's and the old MC-9A's and B's. You can't really complain much since Academy does cover alot of ground. At one time Academy had the oldest buses in the system, since they had about 77 3rd hand 6800's from NJ Transit. Academy has 8563-8612 and still that leaves them with all MC-9B's in service with some MC-9A's. Now the amount of D4000's they got from NJT, could have easily replaced all MC-9A's, but with the lines and service they have they had to keep some of them, and are still in use.
As for Suburban, they haven't really recieved any new buses. I mean they recieved a couple, but not really much. So really Suburban is still stuck with most of the old buses for now.
I personally think after rebidding and new decisions Academy deserves the Route 18 contract. Academy I think has their buses running and looking better than the Suburban equipment.
What's the ridership on this line?
The Orion VII came southbound along Paul Avenue side by side with a Bee-Line Neoplan artic, but turned onto Bedford Park Blvd one by one...the artic first, on the left, followed by the Orion VII Shitbox, passing on the right...
(BTW, I bumped into two Bustalkers, Bingham C50 and Flx870 today, right after I took this shot.)
Have fun!!!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...Cruising the Northeast Fare-Free!
Nice shot Carlton.
Thanks...
Nice to hear from you again!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
Today was the Chinese New Year festival in Flushing. There was a huge parade down Main street, and then shows in the Flushing mall in the afternoon. All in all a great time.
As for the buses, my N21 traveled straight down Northern Blvd instead of going left onto Sanford, and made a left on Bowne street where we were let off at Bowne and Roosevelt ave.
Most NYCT buses that came from the north and east stopped in this spot, the ones from the south stopped at Sanford and Main. Signage near regular stops could've been better, but the streets opened back up by 2pm.
the Flushing mall has a new section called the Marketplace that will soon be full of merchants. Also a display on plans for the future in Flushing. From what I've seen Flushing is well on the road to sucess, it's already there. They seem to be doing alot better than Chinatown.
Again it was a great parade! There will be another parade in Chinatown next Sunday.
Gung Hay Fat Choy! I happened to be in Flushing with a friend also this afternoon for lunch. Was there around 1:30 to sometime after 3. Several buses that I remember seeing were 400, 456, 505 from CS and 8958 from JAM. I must be mistaken but I thought I saw 9090 on the Q17 turnaround at Prince & 38 Ave. According to the roster, 9090 is at UP.
Oh boy! Got to go to the bank and get a wad of brand new dollars!
The Q20/44 were on College Pt Blvd, along with the rest of Main St's traffic :).
I am selling a group of 50 oddball slides of mostly Orion's from all over the US for $10.
If anyone is interested please contact me directly, please for the sake of the board do not reply here.
Thanks,
Blue in LA
CHATHAM SQUARE IN SESSION
RIGHT NOW!
BusTalkers are welcome, too!Chatham Square is the place to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
As in any Internet forum or chatroom, certain polices and rules need to be created and enforced. SubTalk Live is no exception. The following policies are in effect at all times in the chatroom or when making posts on SubTalk and BusTalk pertaining to the chat:
1. ANY public transit related topic can be discussed (bus, subway, or railroad).
2. It is requested that you use your handle as your chat nickname.
3. OPs will be the sole people in the chat to deem a topic off subject and are the only people who can make announcements on SubTalk and BusTalk pertaining to the opening, closing, delay, cancellation, postponement, software, server, or technical difficulties with the chat. When in doubt over what you are about to do, don't do it! If you have a problem with any of the above issues, e-mail an operator. Please do not post on SubTalk or BusTalk! This also applies to responding to this message. Do not respond to this message unless you are posting a question relevant to Chatham Square. Do not post announcements pertaining to the chat.
4. Anyone who disrupts the chat in any way (scrolling, profanity, obscene remarks, constant chatting off-topic, or any of the above) will be punted and/or banned from Chatham Square with or without warning.ARE YOU READY TO EMBARK ON AN EXCITING JOURNEY TO CHATHAM SQUARE???
Just click here and join in! If you have mIRC, do not click the link, just do your thing! Please note, the room has now moved to webchat.org. The room name is still #chathamsquare.COME HAVE SOME FUN! JOIN IN NOW!
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE. YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED IN THE CHAT ROOM.
I didn't notice any changes. Seems like the same dictative and authoritative drivel as in past postings. lol
Well, I did revert it to the old, colorful notice. The change had to do with the location of the room for people who have mIRC. Provided you came, you would have noticed.
He was talking about all of your fascist regulations, the ones that are missing in the ATLAS notice that I made:
Saturday Night, 7:30 PM unless otherwise specified in the subjectBusTalkers are also welcome!
Chatham Square is a unique oppurtunity to hold LIVE chats with other siderodromophiliacs (railfans) and busfans. Everyone is welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun-filled evening.
ARE YOU READY FOR CHATHAM SQUARE???
Just go to http://www.subtalklive.com and join in. IRC users, connect to channel #chathamsquare on the WEBCHAT network (http://www.webchat.org for more information).
WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU!
Does anyone know if the NJ Transit Volvo Artic's have wheelchair lifts and what routes they are assigned to?
Thanks, Laddie
All of them have lifts.
The transit versions are generally running the 13-Broad, 39-Kearny-Irvington, and 25-Springfield Avenue.
The suburbans usually see duty on the 156, 159, 166, 167, and 321 out of the PABT.
Thanks for the information. Any idea how long they will remain in service?
Laddie
The first Neoplan artic should be here by this time next year. NJT usually tests the first unit for 45-90 days, and if all goes well, then the rest of the order proceeds.
The transit versions are generally running the 13-Broad, 39-Kearny-Irvington, and 25-Springfield Avenue.
I've never seen the Volvos on the 25 line. I do recall seeing Volvo Transit artics on the 70/Penn Station-Livingston Mall line on weekends.
The suburbans usually see duty on the 156, 159, 166, 167, and 321 out of the PABT.
I've also seen them in the past on the 320/North Bergen P&R line. The units assigned to Meadowlands often show up on some of the longer distance routes during peak hours as needed, particularly, some of the lines out of Oradell.
The 25 lent itself very well to the artics early on because the bus basically never turns. They have also shown up on the 78 Newark-Secaucus from time to time.
The 166 and 167 are primari;ly Oradell routes getting support from Meadowlands. when the Volvos are gone, these routes will get MCI D4500s instead. For some stupid reason, there is only a 2-seat difference between the D4500s (57) and the new Neoplan artics (59), so NJT felt why take up the extra 15-feet of road space.
I think the rationale for the artics is that you can get a larger standing load on the Neoplans as opposed to the D4000/D4501 cruisers.
True, but the Volvos are also 60-footers with substantially more seats (65 transit, 67 suburban). Removing 8 seats on the suburbans will not add 8 (or more) standees, because there isn't much more additional floor space to work with.
It will all depend on how the Neos are outfitted. The Volvo suburbans are pretty much the same level of comfort as the Flx suburbans which followed 3 years later. Does NJT decide to outfit the Neo suburbans to the same level, or are they going for MCI-level interiors, that is the question.
[I've also seen them in the past on the 320/North Bergen P&R line.]
The times to generally see the Volvo artics on the 320 are the AM rush hour and on Saturday mornings and early afternoons.
Does anyone know what year the NJ Transit 1976 Flxible Suburbans last ran and if there are any pictures of them posted on the web?
Thanks, Laddie
The last year these Flxibles ran in NJ was 1990. They were replaced by the rebuilt ex-NYC 870's and the Metro B's during a three year period from 1987 to 1990.
I believe the Flxible New Looks were off the roster by the time the Flxible Metro Ds arrived in 1993-94. Most of the New Looks were off the roster by then. A handful of New Looks were still operating for various private carriers.
As far as pictures, check out Dave Mackey's NJT Gallery or Joe Testagrose's New Jersey Gallery at the nycsubway.org web site, which has a wide variety of Flx New Looks and GM New & Old Looks.
Laddie, hope you're doing well; e-mail me when you can.
-Fred
As a service to those BusTalkers who recently have been asking about original Blitz numberings, within the next few days the Urban Transit Club will post on its' web site the entire roster of NYCT Blitz Fishbowls with their original numbers. As an added bonus, a listing of non rebuilt remumberings for GM & Flxible fishbowls will be provided as well. The url is: http://www.utcny.org/ While you wait for the roster, we invite you to explore the site for the latest news and photos of rail and bus subjects along with the dates for our meetings in 2002. We hope you enjoy your visits to our site.
Thanks so much for this information Bill. I've been trying to get this list of renumberings for quite some time now. When those non-rebuilt GM & Flx newlooks were renumbered into the 6000's/7000's, it screwed up my roster because I no longer knew what the original numbers were. It was difficult to look at the license plates to see the original numbers etched on.
Bill, When is you next meeting & what will be the main topic ?
Mr rt__:^)
Next UTC meeting is March 9th. Mr. Bill Myers will share his work. He does some fantastic night photography and amuses us with some trick slides. For example, stuff like a Philadelphia streetcar operating under a NYCT structure with a NYCT subway train passing overhead!
Saturday March 9th it is, thanks.
Only been to one of your affairs, it may be time for a second.
Mr rt__:^)
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Why are some buses missing their roof numbers?
When the buses are repainted, they are not putting the roof numbers on, since police are now able to use cameras to zoom in closer to the numbers in other locations on the bus.
As always, great shots Trevor
What happened to the pic of 220 with the M86 sign Trev?
Since we are talking about hawk. I'm wondering if lines like the B39 acually warrents a half hour hawk. With the ta pokets beginning to run low. and ridership being larger elseware would the ta look to cut the headway down to 1 hour. I realize the hawks are interlined with the B46 And the Q54. I also realize that it helps fill in what other wise be layover and both line. But i would not be surprised if the B46 could use an increase in hawk service. which the ta was/is reluctent to do as in the case of the Q44. Which i beliive took around 2 years to approve the increrse from 60/30 and if i remember correctly it was carring close to a seated load all night long.
As for the b41 I relize the reason why it is a 30 hour coridor. (becuase in its branch route) I just wondeing if the riderships
has increased to warrent the 30 min line headway.
For the 1985 bus model year certain old NYCTA GM and Flxible fishbowls got renumbered because they were in the 4000 number range and it was the desire of the TA to start the first 1985 RTS with the number 3900. These fishbowls were to be scrapped in a short amount of time anyway. The surviving TA group of 1969 Flexibles (originally 4000 to 4202) became 7205 to 7299. The surviving MABSTOA group of 1969 Flxibles (originally 4600 to 4727) became 7360 to 7467. The surviving TA group of 1971 GMC's (originally 4300 to 4499) became 6350 to 6449. Finally, all but one of the original MABSTOA group of 1972 GMC's (4800 to 4919) became 6500 to 6518. Which bus was the unlucky one you ask? Turns out the missing bus was actually lucky! 4800 became Blitz 5511. All the other 5500 hard seaters were original TA. 5500 to 5527 (except 5511) were originally in the 6200 to 6349 (hard seats) group; 5528 to 5571 were soft seaters originally in the 6900 series. I remember one 6900 series hard seater operating on local routes: 6948. This bus was not Blitzed. Blitz 5572 to 5576 were originally the MABSTOA soft seat group of 4500 to 4505. 4504 did not get Blitzed: that became 6957 after renumbering.
For the original group of 1971 GMC's 4300 to 4499, 85 of these got Blitzed into the 5200 to 5284 series, the remaining 15 got scrapped while wearing their original numbers.
Some of those renumbered GMs went up as high as 6559, which was at FP around the end of 1988.
If anyone is interested I still have in stock a few of the ultra elusive Santa Monica NABI models availiable for $25 each.
These sell for nearly $40 on ebay.
Please email any serious inquirys.
Thanks,
Blue
r they 1/60 scale like the friction RTS buses? Cause if they are-id be curious.
Last night on a repeat of the Sopranos, Tony puts his sister on a Greyhound with a "Seattle" destination sign.
The bus was an MCI-12. She boards the bus in front of what was supposed to be a bus station but probably was an old hotel. The bus goes down the street and turns right. In the background is a bridge. Since the show is shot in the NYC vicinity does anyone know where this scene was filmed.. What building was used to portray the pick-up spot? The bridge looked like a cheesy version of the GW.
>>What building was used to portray the pick-up spot?<<
Looks like Newark Penn Station to me.
Bill "Newkirk"
I do not watch the Sopranos, but I did go by Penn Station Newark about 1-2 years back when they were doing some shooting for the show. At the time I was there, the cameras were where the Greyhound buses stop, although I don't remember seeing a Greyhound bus there.
It was Newark Penn Station.....but for a bus going to Seattle it turns the wrong way. It should take a left then a right and go up to 280 into 80 and westward ho.....
.......it was amazingly uncongested there which is a total 180 from what it is usually like there as the GLI nimrods decided to have 6 schdules show up at the same time...not to mention their resoective extra sections...maybe they have fixed things up since i was last involved in that operation 2+ years ago...but on second thought - probably not. This is the 'dog' we're talking about.
I'm sorry to ask this but are those buses going to private carriers? I ask because they are not on the Transitalk NJT bus page.
Those buses have not been delivered yet. They will be the 96-inch NJTs, the 45-foot NJTs (8201-8204 exist), and the overflow numbers in case they exercise the option on the extra 156 units. Further confusing the issue is the handful of 8900s in NJT colors. 7503, the original 96-inch unit, and 8201, the first 45-footer, are in Altoona for long-term testing.
The 1982-84 MC9s were not delivered in numerical order either (6102-6799), and was really confusing for a while until they were all in. Most of the 6700s were in before the 6400s (which were last).
Thanks "kram3500" for your info.
What about the 8900s operating out of Oradell? What's the story on those units?
Similar strange numbering happened with the 6000s. Oradell basically had all the 6300s and 6400s... except for the 6390s. They were scattered amongst a few private carriers, while NJT got the 6670s which were smack in the middle of the private carrier allocation.
I would guess the high 8900s were the result of a private carrier turning down all or part of their original allocation. Remember, even though NJT is replacing all of the MC-9s and Eagles they had, most of the private carriers have much less equipment need than they did 20 years ago. Good example would be Trevor's employer, Rockland Coaches. They had almost 125 NJT MC-9s, but they apparently will only be getting about 90 of the new MCIs, because they have a lot less service than they did in the 1980s.
As kcram3500 has stated 8113-8399 is slated for another MCI Model, more than likely the MCI D4501s since they have already started up in that series with 8202 and 8204 currently in operation.
We are looking at the MCI D4501s more than likely being 8113-8399 since that adds up to the 285 Numbers required for the D4501 order which is 285 buses.
The 89xx Series has not shown up at Oradell, they are only getting 76 out of this batch so I don't see how the 89xx Series works for Oradell. If the math is done correctly, Oradell's 76 buses have started at 7822, so plus 76 puts their allotment to 7897, WHICH they already have up to 7871.
The explanation for the 89xx Series falls because they have basically run out of Numbers in the series for the MCI Order which is 7504-8112 for NJT D4000s, 8401-8915 for Private D4000s, 8113-8399 for the D4500/D4501s, this leaves 8916 and up for the spillage over into the rest of the D4000, D4000Ns, & D4000Hs. Also available is the 71xx-74xx & 9000-9099 Series that can easily be used on the D4000N or D4000H coaches.
Also 7502 is NOT a 96-DW3SS and 7503 is NOT a 102-DLW3SS, 7502 and 7503 is JUST like 7501, a 102-DW3SS. I've been in all three of these buses and all three are currently down at the acceptance lot, ALL in NJT schemes.
________________________________________________
This second batch (325 buses) currently goes as such:
7618-7873 to Wayne
7810-7811 to Market Street
7812-7821 to Ironbound
7822-7879 (Supposed to be 7897) to Oradell
7941-7980 to Market Street
7981-8023 to Washington Township
8024-8031 to Egg Harbor
8032-8041 to Meadowlands
8042-8072 to Ironbound
8201 (Suppose to be in Altoona testing, But I talked to someone at MCI and they said 8201 nor 8203 doesn't exist yet)
8202 (D4500) to Howell
8204 (D4500) to DeCamp
8703 to Nate's Transportation
8704-8745 to Lakeland
8971-8988 to Oradell (Don't know how true this is because I haven't seen NONE yet and I ride Oradell buses everyday to work)
___________________________________________________
Also in information given to me by MCI, the order will continue from here on at a rate of 50 buses per month. The next batch of 325 buses will allow Suburban & Community Coach to finally receive their allotment, DeCamp-Rockland Coach-Academy to see the REST of their allotment. Also in the next batch D4000Ns & D4501s will start appearing, so expect to see their weirdo puppies on the road by springtime.
Keeping You Posted!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Short Line has some 5000 and 6000 series state buses. Will they be getting any of the new order to replace these? (I realize that even if they do, Coach USA may be able to send them elsewhere, but that's another story.)
Leisure Lines does too, I have a feeling that Short line and Leisure lines may not get any and the ones allotted for them will be sent elsewhere!
Regards,
Trevor
When JA, and QV get their MCI's, there is a possibility that they will go to other depots. Someone posted that the hard seat convertion is too much money for NYCT to spent. Is this true? I know they already spent a lot on the repowering. So there may be a chance that the Surburbans will be rolling near your area.
BTW, UP needs to lose some of theirs, and replace them with hard seat Novas(give them the 9000's at ENY).
-Jay
I was the one who quoted a price of $15,000 per bus for seat conversion at NYCT.
The engine repowerings are being done because NYCT is under a political mandate (unfunded as far as I am aware) to be 100% clean-fuel or clean-fuel "alternative" by next year. Clean-fuel (around here at least) mostly means CNG, but the alternative for the existing fleet is a combination of the Series 50 engine (replacing the "dirty" 6V-92) and a higher-grade (low-sulfur) diesel fuel than had previously been used.
As to the bus assignments, again: if the Department of Buses decides to move the soft-seaters around it will be done. If not, it won't.
David
if you do the math as it involves over 200 buses it is more than a million dollars that mta definitely will not spend on seat replacement.
"if you do the math as it involves over 200 buses it is more than a million dollars that mta definitely will not spend on seat
replacement."
Just out of curiosity, what does it cost to replace or repair the padded seat cusions that have surpassed their service life or have fallen victim to vandalism? Perhaps that cost outweighs the cost of conversion.
Hmm... bout 155 rolls of tape (high quality, of course)= couple hundred. I say keep the ol' softees (pun intended)
Why not just take out the seats from older scrapped locals and replce the soft seaters? - The TA owned those buses - the only thing that really had to be done was to lower the floor.
as david a former mta manager i believe said the cost is expensive even doing that. as you said the orion and nova coaches are both built with platforms which have to be removed.
They should just replace the Seats and keep the platforms there
Hard seats will sort of be a disadvantage when you have those raised platforms on both sides. The 2X2 Hard seats are not as wide as the 2X2 soft seats,(think of the upper 4800's series). When you have many people standing in the aisle, those platforms make it very uneven, especially when people want to through when it is crowned.
My suggestion is that the seats should stay, and they should be transfered to a depot that has routes with a low number of riders. Just DON'T SEND THESE BUSES TO ENY or KB! They won't last more than a month over there.
-
Will the drought at Fresh Pond ever end? 3 years, 1 month and still going.
-Jay
and what do you replace the ENY 9000's with???
send ENY #9440-#9443 to UP. Why only have 4 of these numbers anyway?
B1-9295-NOVABUS
QV should have got those 4 ENY 94xx Series RTS's instead of the 48xx Series RTS's.
Rode the B1 this morning. The bus was extremly mobbed by the time it hit 86th Street-Bay Parkway. I had A Novabus(#9300-run 008)-the bus driver turned off the motor and said "Everyone move to the back". I was sitting in the back and there was no room. He stood there for at least 10 minutes. People on the bus were creaming "i'm going to faint" and "If you dont start the bus im going to kick you in the A@@" and "Call a cop-get his run number and bus number"
At this time, the driver said "This bus is out of service". He kicked off at least 1/2 of the customers and continued down the line. I got on his follower(#9313-run 022) with a woman who was having a hysterical breakdown(she was orignally on my bus).
I get this driver a lot in the mornings when im going to work(he even waits for me when he sees me getting coffee). The question i have is this:
1-can he actually pull the bus out of service?
2-if the bus is truely packed, which it was, how can he expect people to move?
3-would this happen if this bus was a hard seater?
A word to the TA:Get the 9200's and 9300's of UP to hard seaters ASAP.
B1-9300 and 9313-NOVABUS-run 008 and 022
Bring back 5303 Fishbowls and the B-34!!!!!!!
Amen to that, brother!
-Fishbowl Fanboy
the answers to 1 and 3 are no. i suggest you write or call larry reuter nyct president and complain about coach buses on a heavy local line as this route was mentioned before on bustalk.
that is not a new story. the same thing was happening in july when the 9200`s were at gleason during the wheelchair olympics. people were screaming at each other even when the bus only had 5 to 10 people standing. the ta will do something about it when someone gets seriously hurt.there are enough scrap buses around to pull seats out of and convert these buses to hard seaters.
then why doesnt the TA do it..like they did it to #4742 and #4497? If they did this to the 9200's and 9300's, it would be a heck of a lot easier. And for what it's worth:Today, got a NOVBUS on my trip, but differnet driver.
9295-NOVBUS-B1
I see lots of those soft seaters on the B1. Eventually the seats will have be replaced. Just pull the hard seats out of an old RTS about to go to the scrapper. I hear that the old seats are starting to break on the rebuilt 7500's. Fine. Have an inventory to replace cracked old hard seats. When will the TA pull the soft seats out of buses 9250 to 9349? When the public and political complaints get out of hand after there is an ugly situation on one of those buses where a member of the riding public gets seriously hurt following some kind of a brawl on one of these buses where NYPD will have to be called to quell a disturbance.
5590 on the 47 (the bus after the 7:02 from Rockville)
5802 on the 37
35 foot Gillig on the 46 at about 7:35 at Grosvenor
Last night, can't confirm but it appeared to be a 35 foot Gillig deadheading to Lytonnsville at Connecticut near Bradley. The sign appeared to be an LED.
I saw one of the 35 foot Gilligs with the large numbers on it on the 26 recently, but didn't catch the unit number. I was coming off of the N7, Flx Metro 9451 at the time.
Have been seeing American Flags on WMATA buses here and there. Saw one on a 30 foot Orion V at Ballston the other night. I think it was 3908.
Also saw Orion V 9649, which used to be a Western Avenue bus, but was on the 25B headed to Van Dorn St. Metro coming out of the Four Mile Run garage.
How many people were on the N7? I know MD is currently funding the route...
It was depressingly low. There were two of us at Federal Triangle. ( I was meeting my parents up at Montgomery Mall that night for my b-day and decided to have some fun and take this bus rather than drive up or take the subway). At the maximum point, which was on Mass. Ave. North of Dupont Circle, we had about 12 people on. Some people got on this one rather than get on the N2 that wasn't too far behind us, I think by mistake, but they didn't seem to mind paying the $2.00, or maybe they only paid the difference from a transfer, I couldn't tell. I was on the 5:30 bus that arrived at Montgomery Mall around 6:40. I don't know what load factor WMATA or Maryland is eyeing to keep it running.
The driver was really friendly. I was the only one to get off at the Mall and as I said goodbye to him, we ended up getting in a 5 minute conversation about the Super Bowl.
Click here for the release. There are a total of 10 buses runnning on the U2, U5, and U6 routes.
Channel 9 just showed one of the buses, 2340. The seats are a little different than what's been used lately. Instead of the padded seats, it looks like they are using the regular ones that in the rest of the older buses, except it seems like the seats have the same fabric as the Ride On's.
I'm curious to see what routes are going to use them since they'll all be coming out of the Bladensburg depot. That will be one heck of a deadhead for the VA and Montgomery County runs.
There won't be any runs in MD or VA. Right now, they are only running the U2, 5, and 6.
Too bad someone in WMATA's public relations office couldn't get the group "U2" to ride on the U2 route on the CNG buses since they are an environmentally friendly group. : )
Maybe do a play on their old single "Who's Going to Ride Your Wild Horses" . . . "We're Going to Ride Your Nice Buses" . . . could be the theme song. ;)
C
Yeah, they could follow that with "Where the Streets Have no Name"! That was a great U2 video that featured some nice pics of LA buses.
Fabric seats? That's a first for WMATA, at least in recent history. I question the wisdom of that, especially in late-night DC service . . . even with Scotchgard or whatever, once some drunk guy pukes on the fabric, it'll never be the same.
C
LOL, yeah, that could be a pretty bad sight! I'm sure NYC, SEPTA and other agencies that have similar seats have those problems too.
The seats on that bus did surprise me. Of course, they could do what they did on Flx Metro E's and have half with the older type seats and half with the softer padded seats, too.
It always surprises me that transit systems, for the most part, do a pretty good job keeping seat fabric clean. Even more interestingly, massive big-city TAs have switched to fabric in recent years whereas before they went with vinyl or plastic - some to follow this trend are LACMTA, NYC Transit, SEPTA, CTA, and now, WMATA.
I like the fabric on seats. It looks nice and is reasonably comfortable. My "home" TA on which I took some of my first-ever bus rides has traditionally had padded or fabric covered seats. I remember the first time I got on a bus with hard plastic seats and I was almost scared. I did not know transit could be so uncomfortable!
With regards to WMATA, they had to be one of the last TAs to use the very mid 80s big blue padded vinyl seats with excessive wood-stain paneling. A classic and time-proved look, but it is nice to know that they are updating a bit with their newest buses.
A photo of New Flyer D45S "Viking" Cruiser #997...is it in service yet (either this one or #996)?
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
Although I cannot confirm personally, my understanding is that at least 996 and, perhaps, 997 and/or 998 are in service on the X-51. I may be in Manhattan tomorrow afternoon and will try to track one down.
So will I...I will probably be near 35-36th Sts and 2nd Av or at 34th/2nd Av...around that area...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
Yes, in service since last week, I found out...I was on it today...#998...the 4:35pm out of Midtown...#996 was the 5:05pm bus...#997 was in the Casey Stengel barn today...there were some technical problems, I think, with it...
The bus was much better than the MCIs...larger door width, sound-proof ceiling, better interior lighting (though on my bus, the reading lights were out...the driver thought because the power and electricity for the lights was taken by the operating farebox, oh Lord!), and the series 60 engine sounds much more unique than on the MCIs...and those LED destination signa, Twin Vision signs, are so much nicer than on those MCIs...with its Detroit Diesel series 60 engine comboed with that Allison B500R was blazing the 59th St Bridge and just zipped along the Horace Harding Expwy with so much more ease than MCIs on the Gowanus...I also was finally able to look at the Viking Operator's Manual...
I also bumped into Sidney Keyles when I took some shots of the buses...Sid, this is Carlton saying hi and thanks for a great conversation...
BTW, here are some pics from today...
#996 at 37th St/2nd Av, Midtown
#996 sitting next to Queens Surface MCI #933
#998 at Northern Blvd/Sanford Av, Flushing
Interior view of the bus.
Have fun!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...Cruising the Northeast Fare-Free!
It looks like a bloated Orion I. Or like an Orion I that was smashed in the face. Must that confounded blue stripe always follow the contour of the window line? It gets worse with each new bus. Whatevr happened to design flow?
I don't know...but the ride pretty much compensates for the sorta ugly design...the ride rocks! The ride makes me like the Viking a lot more...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
nice bus !!!
looks like a neoplan
eddie a
Saw This bus being towed down Richmond Av today heading toward Yukon Garage. What is the story with this bus? it looked in bad shape, the front of the bus was all smashed in body included.Looked to be in a very bad accident.
This posting is to notify you of a Website Development Contest sponsored by the U.S. Department of Transportation is designed for teams of High School students with an academic representative providing guidance. The contest is intended to provide a hands-on creative educational activity for the students and result in website pages with career development information that will be usable by high school guidance counselors and students throughout the nation.
Contest entry websites are to be useful to students in examining transportation career opportunities. These opportunities include a range of career paths and directions one might take (design, construction, operation, financial, legal, management, public relations, etc.) which result in materials that may inspirational and appealing for all interests. We seek your assistance in working with teachers and students to develop contest entries in their discovery and pursuit of meaningful careers.
The due date for contest entries is being extended to May 31, 2002, to provide more time for the student teams to develop entries. Details of the contest may be found at http://education.dot.gov/ or directly at http://education.dot.gov/contestl2002contest.html.
We would appreciate receiving an indication of interest from those planning to prepare entries for the contest (email can be sent to the individuals below or can be forwarded through the contest entry mechanism located on the contest website). We may be able to offer some information about some local contacts who may be willing to assist contest entry teams with ideas for gathering and developing materials for the contest entry. Local and national transportation companies, for instance, may be an excellent source for photographs and descriptions of career paths and future job options. If you have any questions or thoughts regarding the contest, please contact Alex Landsburg at 202-366-1923, alex. landsburg~marad.dot.gov or Robed Owens at 202-366-1689, robertowens~fta.dot.gov
I will be away from the evening of Monday, February 11, 2002, until the afternoon of Monday, February 18, 2002. During that time, I will not have access to e-mail or the Internet (and thus, no BusTalk). No updates to my website (orenstransitpage.com) will occur during this time, nor will I be able to answer e-mails. See you all again next week, have a restful holiday weekend. I might catch the B30 from BWI, I'll let you know next week.
Sincerely,
Oren H.
Have a great time off. Enjoy the B30 if you take it!
Bus 1936 was in an accident today on Richmond Avenue. The whole drivers side front was destroyed. Out of what I know, the driver suffered cyts and bruises. Just thought i would let you guys know.
Looks like there are so many of these MCI Cruisers involved in accidents. 1867 1936 1998 2013 2014 2185 just to name a few. If this keeps up, they'll definitely have to use the extra Orion Suburbans on the SI Routes. Let's not hope for that.
#1979 X17
six buses involved in accidents in 3 years is not much. 2013,2014 have been repaired 1998 was totalled as the result of a terrorist act 2185 belongs to ulmer park and is being repaired also as the result of terrorists. your list only leaves two possibilities. one occurred yesterday.
I saw 2139 smashed up bad too - so add that one. But Hudson is right - they are really great buses - how many RTSs get into accidents a year?
i wouldnt exactly call what 1998 and 2185 were involved in an accident.
Hello,
I have another sound clip of Neoplan AN460. It is a Samtrans bus #9116.
Here is some background info:
Samtrans contracts out their major and express routes to MV Transportation in San Francisco Bay Area. These buses usually have 4 digits in their fleet number starting with a "9". All 15 AN460 buses are numbered as 9116 to 9130. They can be usually found on routes linking SFO and Downtown such as KX and 292.
They were built in 1985 and equipped with Detroit Diesel 6V92 and ZF 4HP600 Transmission.
9116
Enjoy,
Stephen
Nice sound, Stephen! This kinda reminds me of a BAD RTS-04 engine from the MTA-NYCT. Although, as the sound gets going, it does not really sound like it. However, nice sound!
Thanks for enjoying, I would like to record some RTS sounds to share with you guys. However, it isn't easy for me to go to Marin County where the majority is RTS in the Bay Area coz I leave in San Jose and I have a pretty loaded semester. Anyway, I will try to find some VTA RTS during weekends when I have time.
I also have some sounds of VTA's Flxible Metros in progress.
Thanks
If anyone is interested I have a friend in Montreal who is a photographer and has some bus photos for sale including Nova LFS, Classic, Greyhound Canada Prevost, and other intercity buses.
He also takes requests and is very reasoabe in his prices.
Email him at allcoolpup@aol.com for further info.
Blue in LA
Or....I'll be glad to send you mines, Free of charge!!!!!!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The NJT buses were terminating on 42nd St. Was that between 8th and 9th Avs or 9th and 10th Avs? If it was between 8th Av and 9th Av, then how do the buses go back? A left on 8th Av to 43rd St and back that way like the M16? Or like I think was between 9th Av and 10th Av on 42nd St then a right on 9th Av to regular into the Lincoln Tunnel.
Buses were discharging everywhere - from 34th and Dyer all the way to 42nd, and from 8th to 10th Avenue, anywhere there was curb space. The PABT was closed from 8:15am to 9:05am because some loser decided to wrap wire around a cell phone, drop it off at the PABT police desk and claim it was a bomb. He is in custody.
Thanks "Kcram3500" for your answer!
No problem - I was out this morning on the road, and has 880 on the whole time. It started with a traffic report where they noticed buses on the PABT ramps being U turned and sent back down to the street, then the report of the evacuation, and finally the report of the who what where when why.
As if a terrorist threat was not enought:
More info here
Bus Accident today ,,Farmers Blvd and N Conduit,,I was working OMA today ,19 Injuries,,500 series Number
Bus vs Car,,,2 RMA in the Car
Approx 1530 Hrs
Shouldn't ALL of the MTA's depot projects be this productive and NOT like the heap of crap that Coliseum is starting to look like? BTW, I was on the (2) today and passed by Coliseum...looks like some progress, but not much different from a year ago...but still progress...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
http://cleanairbus.tripod.com
First time i have ever seen a bus barn like that. How many Multi-Story bus garages does the NYCTA have?
Let's see...
Michael J. Quill, Kingsbridge (in a way, the storage building has 2-3 floors, the maintenance building has 1 floor, I think), East New York (I think, looks like it from the outside...haven't been overe there in ages),Manhattanville...I think that's four, plus 100th Street...unless I am forgetting some...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Nice pic, Trevor!!! Did you drive this bus into the city?
Add ENY 8126. Spotted her on the B60 at Hegeman and Rockaway Avs, Brownsville.
Another good bus that becomes junk. Not in a hurry? Ride a repowered bus where we never go above 40 mph.
#9370 Q46
where on new york city streets in the 5 boro`s of new york city do you need to go over 40 mph? i know when we got 5200`s from kingsbridge a cpl of years ago here at gleason, we had run on and run offs using the belt pkwy from shore road. if you had a 5200 you didn`t use the pkwy because the bus was governed at 40mph. it was to dangerous . at flatbush a cpl of years ago the buses were governed at 30mph by then boss livingston . this was done because a bus was clocked on the b49 on oriental blvd doing 55 mph. the driver received a speeding ticket.
For example: the Q46. It makes deadhead trips on the GCP from Springfield Blvd back to Queens Blvd. From what I heard, most of the buses do NOT go above 40 mph and that is a definite hazard. The buses could get a ticket for going too slow. You also have drivers that drive too fast. So I guess no matter what-it's better to go too slow than too fast. However, in most areas I admit you do not need to go above 40mph, but I do say that they need to go faster espeially if they're on the Expressways and Parkways to stay with the flow of traffic.
#4499 Q46(Was clocked at a speed of 67 mph by a friend of mine.)
"where on new york city streets in the 5 boro`s of new york city do you need to go over 40 mph?"
The speed limit is 30mph, however, we utilize the LIE and GC/CI parkways. Legal minimum highway speed is 40mph, and that's just about the limit of these buses.
However, I inquired to the C.M.O. at Zerega in the Bronx about this. He told me that the governers are defective, and that the buses should be governed at 55mph. There is no federal speed limit regulation according to this C.M.O. at Zerega or any BMA/BMB Q.V. personnel I speak with.
Once I been on a Nova RTS that done 45 MPH. 5 MPH Higher then 40 MPH.
Having been behind the unfortunate souls who have to return to Queens Boulevard on the GCP, I was wondering if you QV guys can answer this one:
On a bus that's governed at 40 MPH, is the rate of acceleration similarly stunted? That would be a truly dangerous situation when trying to merge on to the Grand Central.
Not at all. The accelleration rate has nothing to do with the governed speed. Many of the buses governed in the 40mph range have excellent 'pick up', and it's quite a suprise to feel the bus suddenly coast at three-quarter-throttle.
The 4 2000 model year New Flyer articulated buses (#'s 5506, 5507, 5508 & 5509) have been transfered out of 126th Street Depot and returned to MaBSTOA. Buses 5506-5508 have been sent to Kingsbridge Depot while # 5509 has been assigned to Gun Hill Depot. Replacing the artics (and you gotta love this) are decrepit 1985 RTS buses #'s 3828 & 3895 and even more decrepit 1984 RTS buses #'s 3483 & 3485. One of the '84's (I forgot which one) was even slated to be scrapped! I'm sure all 4 of these shitboxes will follow in the path of their sister bus # 3469 and receive some kind of patch and paint job to keep them operational at least till the end of the year.
In a casual conversation I had with a dispatcher at 126, I learned that the possibility exists that the depot may never become an articulated depot. As I've stated before in previous posts, the depot is just not physically capable of handling a large fleet of articulated buses. I guess we'll have to wait until September when the first deliveries of new New Flyer articulateds commences to see if any make their way to 126.
This 1 I can't figure out: 7536 is at Hudson Pier?! I know HP recieved 8488 8489 8493 8496 and 1 or 2 others from 126 St but WHY 7536?
#7536 Q32
Speaking of the 260 NFI D60s coming this fall (lol), what are the garage assignments going to be? 126, KB, and Quill like previously stated last year? Or those plus a bumch of others?
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
hopefully gunhill gets more
Posted by DHF60 on Wed Feb 13 10:50:01 2002
The 4 2000 model year New Flyer articulated buses (#'s 5506, 5507, 5508 & 5509) have been transfered out of 126th Street Depot and returned to MaBSTOA.
You can always move to Los Angeles and drive one of these Flyers ...
Replacing the artics (and you gotta love this) are decrepit 1985 RTS buses #'s 3828 & 3895 and even more decrepit 1984 RTS buses #'s 3483 & 3485. One of the '84's (I forgot which one) was even slated to be scrapped! I'm sure all 4 of these shitboxes will follow in the path of their sister bus # 3469 and receive some kind of patch and paint job to keep them operational at least till the end of the year.
Or maybe one of these "not noteworthy unit"
That LA fleet is looking better all the time. Thank heaven many of those tire-looking RTS's have been replaced. Some of my worst memories of my trips out there are standing in the hot sun and having these monsters roar passed belching out smoke.
jrc
This bus is such a rip off of the D40LF's at Gleason. I though that they would have kept with the same Orion 6.1 or 6.5 design. I was certain the transmission would sound like the 6350 series hybrid Orions. If that was the case, they should have just sent an 800 series bus from Brooklyn to test in the Bronx. I'm dissapointed with Orion and the TA.
I 1st started with Q60 with a Orion5 #5511. I took it to Jamaica LIRR Station. I went inside for a bit and then went outside and got on Q6 to Parsons Blvd that I got #5501. The Talking thing is off and so as the LED Board. After that I was walking around a bit and took pics of
9285 and 657.
Then I got on the N4. And finnaly I fround the bus I was looking for. It was one of the 10 1991 Orion5 CNG's I got on. it was #657. The engine sounds Much Diffent and faster then the NEWER Cummins Orion CNG's. They had padded seats that looks verry nice and even have a Talking Thing that just talk but the LED Board was off and the speaking thing worked!
I got off and went across the street and had to wait almost 30 Minutes for the JFK Flyer. And I got on JFK Flyer was a Diesel Orion5 #612. Not much people where on it. About 6 People when I got on. And I was the only one took it to JFK Airport terminals and it went FAST on the JFK Expressway and no one got on in the Airport until Terminal 3 where the driver stop for 3 Minutes to smoke and a Lady came on and she did not pay her fare. I got off at Terminal 4.
For a FEW Minutes. I took pics of Green Lines 1155 and 707 and so as LI Bus #612 and MTA 5163. Then I got on #707 to Kew Gardens and it was a good ride exept when somewhere near going out of JFK Airport the bus hit a HARD Bump and it got standing room only by Liberty Ave. And that ends it for rideing buses this morning.
Then I got on the N4. And finnaly I fround the bus I was looking for. It was one of the 10 1991 Orion5 CNG's I got on. it was #657. The engine sounds Much Diffent and faster then the NEWER Cummins Orion CNG's. They had padded seats that looks verry nice and even have a Talking Thing that just talk but the LED Board was off and the speaking thing worked!
That's about the only good thing about the LI Bus fleet. When it works properly, the stop announcements on those buses are extremely helpful, especially if you've never been on a particular LI Bus route.
I'm surprised that they still have those 1991 CNGs running.
Yup! They still running but they seeing Limted Service to RVC Depot.
Yeah they are barely running. :-0 But those 1991's do run smoother than the newer Cummins. But they love to stall out, especially in the middle of intersections.
Still prefer the engine in the newer CNG's 288 and up, they are the Detroit diesel Series 50 CNG's.
[I got off and went across the street and had to wait almost 30 Minutes for the JFK Flyer.]
I noticed that LI Bus changed the N91 schedule last month so that the buses run closer to hourly rather than closer to every 30-40 minutes. I can't say I am surprised, as ridership never seems very good for the JFK Flyer.
From "SEPTALand", Midvale is sending several ElDorados to Callowhill within the next few weeks. A couple of ElDos were seen in driver training at the 63 St/Malvern Av trolley loop. I highly doubt that they're going to put them on the 46 between Malvern Loop and 58 St/Baltimore Av (which has a high passenger count for a relatively short route). Likely candidates are the 30/69 St Terminal to West Philadelphia and Amtrak 30 St Station via Haverford Av, the 63/Christian-Catharine crosstown, and the 76/Center City Shopping Spree.
Watch, it'll only take a few weeks before an ElDorado sneaks onto one of the other routes (ie. 21/42, 52, 65), though I think Callowhill has their act together when it comes to assigning buses, unlike Midvale.
Click me
Sometimes we all forget.
This connects to a Newsday article (Feb. 12,2001) on the fare rise effective 2/11/2001. It includes a photo of a fare box.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-libus0212.story
You can also go to http://www.newsday.com and search for "Suffolk bus fare."
I think the high fares have been edging up ever since seniors got half fare because of federal requirements about 1970 (wrong date?). I think (and can be wrong) that under UMTA, transit agencies receiving funding were required to show a discount program for the elderly and disabled. A result: push the base fare higher so the discounted rate is high enough to contribute real money. Note that Suffolk County accepts dollar bills, not Metrocards, so there is no discount for the "adult" base fare.
Suffolk Commuters Ride Out Fare Hike
Most don’t like it but can’t do without the bus
By John Valenti
Staff Writer
February 12, 2002
Riders complained yesterday when Suffolk Bus fares went up 25 cents to $1.75, the highest in New York. But with little choice on how to get where they were going, they coughed up the extra quarter.
"It's unfair, because taking the bus is the only choice some people have,” said student Michael Cocivera, 19, of Lindenhurst, as he waited for the S 23 yesterday at the Babylon train station that would take him to Five Towns College in Dix Hills.
"It's just an extra quarter, so it doesn't sound that bad. But, it adds up after a while.”
The fare increase, announced last month, became necessary because of a $1 million shortfall in the 2002 budget for Suffolk Bus. County officials were offered "emergency funding” from state lawmakers, funding that could have eliminated the need for the fare increase but chose to raise the fare because the final state budget has not been approved.
The result was the 25-cent fare increase, including raising senior fares from 50 to 75 cents.
Suffolk Bus services about 4 million riders annually, about three-quarters of them blue-collar workers, students and senior citizens.
"I don't like the idea,” Josephine Pressey, 63, of Wyandanch said as she waited at the Babylon train station for the S 42 that would take her to her church in Central Islip. "But, my reaction was I've got to pay the money if I want to get on the bus. I'm not some union. I can't fight City Hall. Whether it's income tax or Social Security, the government is going to get what it wants. The county wants to charge more for the bus, we're going to have to pay it -- even if a lot of poor people can't really afford it.”
Suffolk Bus director of transportation operations Bob Shinnick said yesterday that the bus line had received a handful of calls from disgruntled customers. "People are concerned that the fares went up,” he said. "They're just upset.”
"I think a lot of people are upset,” said one Suffolk Bus driver, who asked not to be identified. "We've definitely got a comment or two, but I think everyone has pretty much accepted it. I don't think they like it, but they've accepted it.”
As Anthony Morrelli, a senior citizen from Deer Park, said: "No one wants to pay more. But, I don't mind it so much because I still think it's a reasonable amount for the ride.”
Copyright © 2002, Newsday, Inc.
its insulting to pay the extra fare of Suffolk on a service that DOESNT run on Sunday. If they ran on sunday, at least some routes, they would make a revenue.
Don't forget that unlike NYCT and MSBA, we have to pay a quarter for a transfer.
The 54 bus that runs along Metropolitan Avenue in Queens sometimes terminates at Fresh Pond Road. This happens on both Queens and Brooklyn bound buses. I have no problem with the shortend routes, but I don't understand why passengers are required to exit at the Metro & FPR intersection. These buses are ultimately going to the FPR Depot. The passengers should be allowed to stay on the bus as it makes its way to the depot. The Fresh Pond Road depot is right next to the M Train station and also is a transfer point to the B13 & B20 buses. This would give passengers a much better transfer location and save them an extra fare
Basically its a very short run off from Metropolitan Avenue to Fresh Pond Depot and it will confuse the Q-54 riders if only a few buses each day terminate at Fresh Pond Rd and Putnam Ave.
It does not pay to make these buses a Q-58 for a run off as these passengers will have to get off at Putnam Ave
Thank You
Do the N91 would take Paper Transfers from Q10?
No. Only Metrocards.
You have to pay for non-MetroCard Transfers at LI Bus.
That's to get one ... Joe is right that they don't take them from NYC.
Mr rt__:^)
LI Bus don't take Metrocard transfers. But they do take Metrocards!
[But they do take Metrocards!]
BTW, with your FUN PASS in hand you can start out in NYC and transfer to LI Bus for no extra charge, shuch a deal you can't beat it with a stick !
Last year I started out at Main Street, Flushing went into Manhattan, then met some friends at Jay Street for burgers & fries, rode out to Far Rockaway, then LI bus to Long Beach, had a couple of drinks at a bar on the boardwalk, then another LI Bus to home, a 5 hour commute on one Fun Pass.
Mr rt__:^)
With a fun pass you can go anywhere as long as you wait 18 minutes before using it again. But with a Pay-Per-Ride Card you can not transfer from NYC Bus/Train to/from a LI Bus. It will remove another fare from the card.
I think there might be some cases where you can make a transfer. At Far Rockaway or Jamaina or Flushing. But only with the trains or buses that are there.
The Fun Pass you don't have to wait 18 Minutes to ride NYCT Buses and Subways. And I have used a Pay Per Ride Metrocard many times on LI Bus and I transfer to NYCT and took the Transfer from LI Bus(It was not a Paper Transfer,It was a Metrocard Transfer)
Ok Thanks! I Used Metrocards so I ws just asking.
.....was seen operating on the X51 (Flushing-Manhattan) this morning; also, another similar bus was "waiting in the wings" at Northern Boulevard and Sanford Avenue, but I was unable to see its number, although it, too, was obviously waiting to also serve the X51.
An addition:
All three (3) Vikings were spotted in service on the AM rush. Now here's hoping that they prove themselves worthy and that someone notices that they are a bit more accomodating than the MCI D's.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.com
Cleanairbus and I both observed New Flyer Vikings 996 and 998 laying over in the 34th-37th Street/2nd Avenue area at the start of yesterday's PM rush hour, ready to do service on the X51. Thus, it appears that all 3 of these oddball buses are in service.
I remember seeing a picture of a Bus numbered 995,does anyone know what happened to it?
995 was a LF NovaBus which failed miserably here and was sent back to Nova for remodifications. It was also numbered 999 at 1 time. What happened from there I have no clue. My guess would be that it's now Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority Bus 956? Guys can you help me out on this 1? Thanks.
#995 Q32-OLD SCHOOL!
I saw some pics of that 995 bus,and it looked just amazing.too bad there were a lot of problems with it,i wouldve liked to ride it one day.
We have them here in ALBANY.. they dont do too well in the snow or bad weather.... sometimes they are replaced with the old ORION 1'S [man are they butt ugly!!] saw the one Trevor posted up on the tow truck the next day[after he posted the picture at a shopping mall]...
I rode #998 on the x51 Wednesday evening approximately 5:15 pm from 34th Street & Fifth Avenue. Beautiful interior. The MTA has definately come a long way.
Unfortunately, did not get a chance to experience any speed because we were stuck in back to back traffic from 34th St. all the way to Main St.-LIE.
Not on MY ride on Tuesday...you were VERY unlucky...I rode ALL the way over to Sanford Av...no problems there...I had #998 on the x51 as the 4:35 out of Midtown...had noooo problems...the bus rides like a charm...wayyy better than the MCIs EVER will...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
As hudson said in a post, the MCI Cruisers are leased to NYC for 7 years. What are the plans for them when the lease is up? Will NYC keep them like PA 1201-XXXX? or will they disappear and we will see more Vikings?
[Will NYC keep them like PA 1201-XXXX?]
I don't think there is any similarity between the MCI lease deal and the PA buses. The PA buses were purchased for NYCTA/MABSTOA (and other operators who received such buses) with funds from the PANYNJ. They were owned by the operating authority from day one, and no lease was involved.
I really don't know much about the MCI bus leases, but somehow I suspect that MTA-NYC Bus has either an option to buy the buses at a fairly minimal amount and/or an option to extend the term of the lease. If that is true, it is more than likely they will stay on MTA-NYC Bus property for their useful lives.
Judging by how long the NJT cruisers lasted (15-20 years), I'd expect the MCIs at the TA to last a long time...
Concerning the RTSs, today they have MTA New york City Bus and the bus number on the side.
When these RTSs first came in from the 81-86 Orders that were PA NY/NJ, they had the following sticker above the number.
Purchased by the Port Authority of NY/NJ
Leased to New York City Transit Authority
nyct has no purchase option as when leasing a car. the lease is for 7 years. these buses will be garbage by then. forget about new flyers. they only fit in one or two depots and tunnels. that was a so called jackass purchase by nyct. you wont see any more.
I think the "Flyer Fitment" problem is a bit of a myth. Granted, the coach is listed as being 12 feet 1 inch tall. Yet, riding it recently, I wondered how we were going to fit on the Queensboro Bridge where maximum height at the intersection of the #7 elevated and the upper roadway is 12 feet 0 inches. Obviously, the roof of the Viking didn't shear off on the bridge, and similarly, hasn't had any run-ins with the Queens Midtown Tunnel either. Perhaps there is a bit of a margin on what's listed on roadway signs afterall. One noteworthy item though is the prominant decal that states not to run the bus through the wash.
Regards,
Mark Valera
bus will not fit in many depots. also some modifications were made since it arrived 2 years ago.
The Port Authority held the paper on those buses for 12 years (the useful life span), then turned them over to the operating TA. NJT's PA-owned buses were the same way (1981 Flx 870, 1983 Flx Metro, 1982-84 MCI MC9, 1986 Volvo B10M, the first NYC Flx 870 rehabs in 1987, 1987 MCI MC9). When 12 years were up, the "PA" was removed from the bus, and NJT became the title holder.
Finally got a chance to try out Metro's new B30 service today, coming home for a week's break.
I took RIPTA route 12 (TMC RTS #9820) to TF Green in the morning, passing disabled RTS #4304 (I think that's the number) near the Warwick line being towed back to the garage.
I deplaned at BWI at 2:08. Knowing that the B30 runs every 40 minutes and buses were scheduled for 2:20 and 3:00, I scrambled to the SWA baggage carousel to collect my luggage and dashed to Pier E (the location of the light rail stop and the WMATA stop) as fast as I could. I arrived there at 2:20 on the dot, according to my phone, but the bus had already left, evidently slightly ahead of schedule. I considered heading back to the terminal to grab some lunch, but decided against it because it was such a long walk. I steeled myself for a 40-minute wait.
2:27 Fortunately, I didn't have to wait long. A B30 signed for the BWI Business District light rail station (the northwestern terminus of the route) appeared, and the driver, a nice young lady, said that I and the other two passengers waiting at the stop were welcome to ride around and sit on the bus during her layover, rather than stand outside. I gratefully accepted and boarded the bus, 1998 Orion V #4393, which has been fitted with tall-back seats replete with tasteful cloth pattern and armrests, like Greyhound seats, as well as luggage racks, which was very handy.
We made the eight-minute trip to the light-rail station (a superfluous leg of the route, if you ask me, because the light rail goes directly to BWI as well) and I spent the 20 minutes or so busfanning: as I've mentioned in the past, BWI Airport has quite an eclectic fleet of buses in their shuttle fleet, including 40-foot Gilligs and Orion Is, Escort RE minibuses, and all manner of other vehicles. As an added bonus, I spotted a pristine 40-foot Eagle AE-10 motorcoach (I now forget the name of the operator, but it was a local Md. charter line).
Soon enough, we were moving again, swinging back to the airport and picking up one additional passenger, bringing the total for the run to four. (I think the service is underutilized right now, but with a decent publicity campaign and (dream on) OTR coaches, Metro could really make something of this.) The routing is straightforward: I-195 to B-W Parkway (MD-295) to the Beltway (I-495), briefly, before exiting at Kenilworth Ave and rolling through the Greenbelt office parks to the Metro station. It's a pretty route, but maybe not ideal for a busfan just 'cause there's so much highway mileage involved.
3:27 I get on the Metro, fighting my way up the escalator with my cumbersome luggage after grabbing a bus transfer. A beautiful, blue-skied day . . . picturesque moments included passing the College Park airport and also catching a glimpse of one of UM/Shuttle's red 35-foot Flxi Metro-Bs.
I transferred at Gallery Pl to the Red line, fighting my way through the crowd with my baggage.
4:27 I emerge from the subway at Friendship Heights and go to wait for the E6, which turns up at 4:40. But first, a most peculiar observation . . .
. . . southbound in the left lane of Western Ave near the Chevy Chase building, a small bus, perhaps a 28- or 30-footer, about the size and proportions of an ElDorado National Escort, though it's not. The bus's paint job is emblazoned 'TURBINE ELECTRIC by EBUS.' It's evidently a demonstrator unit: I hypothesize that because it's on Western Ave. it's being given a test drive by WMATA brass; there were three men aboard, a driver and two others leaning forward in the front seats chatting. None were wearing Metro uniforms, but they could be higher-ups. Anyone else know anything about this? The signboards were blank.
Anyway, I finally got home about five, so the whole process took a little more than two hours, compared to fifty minutes if I'd driven down I-95. Still, I think it's great that there's an alternative to MARC as far as mass transit to BWI goes.
C
Passed Highway 3 on the GCP this AM. There was no bus there at all. As you all know Highway 3 was home to NYPD vehicle 3301 a/k/a GM T6h-5307A-0148 formerly TCC #743. That bus hasn't been there in a while.
and nobody seems to know what happened to it.
Last week an MTA RTS was there still in MTA colors with an ad on the drivers side. This week its MIA.
As an aside to a poster who responded to my note about the RTS---The big beige building on the Creedmoor property is still there. Check your eyeglasses.
Where do you put the ignition key to start an RTS?
Before you answer, think and research carefully - this COULD be a trick question
There isn't one, normally -- you throw the battery cutoff switch and hit the engine start button.
C
Where do you put the ignition key to start an RTS?
Well, since NYCT RTS buses don't have an ignition keyhole, you probably wouldn't have an ignition key looking for a home.
Before you answer, think and research carefully - this COULD be a trick questionI think my research is complete.
And why do you want to know ?
BTW, you don't get the KEY until you get your CDL.
Mr rt__:^)
At this morning's SEPTA Board of Directors meeting, Faye L. M. Moore, who had served as Treasurer and CFO of SEPTA since 1995, was named General Manager of SEPTA, effective tomorrow. Moore was given a three year contract to operate the bus and rail system in the Philadelphia area. This is a bit of a departure for SEPTA GMs, who usually get a 5 year contract, as Jack Leary did. This is only the second time that SEPTA has appointed a new GM from inside the agency.
What happened to Jack Leary?
Leary resigned when his 5-year contract expired at the end of January. I don't think he was under a lot of pressure to do so like NJT's executive director is now.
Leary did in fact retire on January 31, after his 5 year contract expired. There was no pressure from anyone at SEPTA for Leary to leave SEPTA. I think there were some people at SEPTA who wanted him to stay for a couple more years.
For all of his faults - specifically, the fare increase from last year and his handling of the 1998 TWU contract negotiations among other things - Leary did turn SEPTA around during his 5 year term. Several new services - mainly in the suburbs - were started during Leary's term as GM of SEPTA. There's still a long way to go for SEPTA, at least from a rider's standpoint, but things are better at SEPTA now then they were 5 years ago.
From what I had read in some published reports, Leary plans to retire to his native Massachusetts (Cape Cod to be exact).
Well, after the fiasco on Monday with the b1 trip-which i did post here-that driver hasnt been on that run the last 3 days. I had the same problem this morning, but this time, the driver didnt pick up any more people once he got full and the run behind him (run 022) was empty. 2 questions i need to ask:
1-if UP knows that a specific run is having problems with express buses, why dont they assign a hard seater to the line(example, instead of putting a 9200 or 9300, we get a 4700,4800,7500 or 9000).
2-run 022 on the b1 in the am-does he start around 7am from Manhattan beach or 86th st-25th av. That run always gets a hard seater bus.
b1-9295-NOVBUS-run 008
problem any line you assingn the nova express buses will cause the same problem
UP drivers have to be the worst drivers in the system
Enjoy & Happy Valentine's Day!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I noticed a few differences between that RTS and those of NYCT:
No emergency lights on either side of the destination sign. Does Academy have such a feature?
Different window configuration.
Right-side mirror pointed downward, with both mirrors having external radial-arm affixed convex mirrors, as opposed to NYCT using tiny three-inch self-adhesive convex mirrors affixed to the mirrors. Our right-side RTS mirrors point upwards towards the pivot point.
Side destination sign (apparently) atop the window frame, as opposed to the hazzardous and dangerous placement of recently installing them at the window base, interfering with the operator's view of the right-side passenger line.
This bus looks clean and relatively new. What year is it?
What type of passenger bell system do they use (touch-tape or pull-cord)?
Academy #1008 is one of the earliest of the NJ Transit 1998-2000 Nova Bus RTS's that are in service with NJ Transit as well as many private operators. I forget exactly how many buses were in this order, but it probably isn't far from around 600.
572 40-footers, 78 30-footers in the order, total of 650
Nice picture Trevor.
I printed it off , signed it luv n kisses and all that stuff and gave it to my wife--------for some reason she got mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I may give her her real card then again I may not.
Thanks Trevor, I'm going to forward it upstairs here ... hint hint
Mr rt__:^)
Today's gift was a "no show" of the 1:32pm Flushing bound N21. Really enjoyed waiting in the freezing cold for the 2:22pm to come. As usual the driver knew nothing of what happened to previous bus. I'm just guessing it had a breakdown.
Of course they didn't send another bus, they just made us wait till the next one! Typical LI Bus monkeyplay.
by the time they learned the 1:32 bus was down, found an extra list b/o to send with a bus up there, the bus pulling out and going to the spot to pick up the route at whatever place u were, the 2:22 would probably have shown up and picked up already.
John, I enjoyed Trevor's Valentine photo post much better !
Mr rt__:^)
Yeah me too! What engines does Academy use in thier RTS's?
...that it might be a trick question, and no one got it.
This is from the original RTS Operating Manual, GMC Truck & Coach form C-7602, Model TH-8201 on starting the engine. Yes indeed, the original RTS did require a standard GM ignition key! Unlike the Master Switch, the lights were controlled by a separate three position toggle switch.
----------------------------------------
They still can be. You can order your bus with an ignition key, however my answer pertained to the NYCT fleet specifically, which, were never ordered with ignition keys.
The same could be said regading passenger bell signals: "Where would you find the yellow tape?"
RTS orders can be (and are) ordered with pull-cord bells, rather than push-tape.
I have worked for probably eight different bus companies in my 29 years behind the wheel and have seen only ONE company actually order any type of buses with ignition keys instead of "Master Control" knobs (in transits) or toggle switches (road buses). (The company was Starline Tours in southern California, operator of Los Angeles Gray Line). The ignition keys (in MCI buses) were a standard double-sided Ford key -- and for some strange reason, my key from my '83 Mustang would work in the buses!!!
I also drove a Neoplan N116/3 for awhile at Starline -- and it had sort of an ignition key -- it looked more like a nail with a long notch cut into it. Once the original key did get lost somehow by the nighttime bus cleaning crew, so we used just that -- a nail, with part of it ground away on the bench grinder in the shop!!!
As for door locks -- again, I worked for only ONE company that even had door locks on their buses. But it wasn't the same company that had the ignition keys. It was on MCI buses, and again, a standard double-sided Ford key did the trick. (But it worked ONLY in the company bus locks....)
Interesting. The NYPD buses use a padlock and latch under the front doors to lock the bus!
METROCARD MANIA BOOK - Fun With Used MetroCards!
This beautiful paperback book was published by Price Stern & Sloan. It is now OUT OF PRINT. It includes over 30 different projects using NYC MetroCards. Games, magic tricks, toys. Great for kids from 8 to adult. Autographed by author at buyer¹s request. To order send $8 each + $3.00 (s&h) (outside USA $6.00 s&h) in US money, check or money order made out to: Michael Makman. Send order to: Professor Putter PO Box 755, Planet Station New York , NY 10024-0539
METROCARD & CARDHOLDERS COLLECTORS CATALOG
This is an 8.5 inch x 11inch 20 page booklet printed by the MTA. They later decided not to distribute it. It contains 20 glossy, color pages of actual size photos of the 1997-99 commemorative MetroCards & cardholders. Full color photos of the Subway Series 97, Then and Now, Emigrant, JVC Jazz, Healthy City, Ferry Boat, Yankees 98, Subway Cool, Millennial Journeys, Mets International Week plus 63 Cardholders including the complete Great Subway series. All photos are actual size & in full color! A beautiful collectors MUST HAVE. My supply is limited. When they are gone, they are gone.
Send $10.00 ea. plus $2. P & H in check or Money Order
made out to: Mike Makman, To: Prof. Putter, Po Box 755
Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
Professor Putter: Are you from Transit Transit-the News Magazine show on public access?
#1979 X17
No he's a guy who bought this stuff because the museum decided they didn't want it. I have both, but they are getting a bit dated now.
The book on what to do with old MetroCards is creative. If you have a lot of time on your hands it will give you something to do. A colleague here bought it for me as a joke because I collect MCs.
Mr rt__:^)
Star-Ledger article
NJT may get a true transit professional in charge soon!
Or they might get a non-professional who never rode a train or a bus in his or her lifetime. A non-professional who will commute to work via cheauffeur driven limousine and never step foot on a train or a bus unless a new piece of equipment is being "christened".
At least Mr. Warsh rode the Raritan Valley Line back and forth several times per week, and when WCTC Radio in New Brunswick used to have LOCAL talk shows during the mid-day hours, Mr. Warsh used to appear on occasion VOLUNTARILY, to field questions from the host as well as from phone callers. I don't recall any previous executive directors being as "available" as Mr. Warsh was to the public. Plus, he is a train buff, as well.
DISAGREE... the loss of Mr. Warsh will be a true loss to NJT...IMHO.
Peace,
ANDEE
I personally dont like Governor McGreevey. I think telling Mr. Warsh to leave is a mistaken. I don't like McGreevy he was the mayor of my township Woobridge and he is nothing but a phony. Sorry to use the language but he is a bunch of bullshit in my opinion.
McGreevey isn't making too many friends in the transit world, particularly in South Jersey. He recently vetoed all of the Delaware River Port Authority's January expenditures, including over $22 million of the PATCO Hi-Speed Line, delaying critical rehab work on that line for a few months. (Sorry that this isn't bus related, but it is relevant to the thread above.)
As for NJT, I'd be very sceptical about seeing strong $$$ support from McGreevey, at least while the rest of the state's budget is in turmoil.
What exactly did Warsh accomplish? The MCI and bi-level rail car orders were already on the table when Shirley DeLibero was still in charge. Ms. DeLibero never had a raise the entire time she was here. Yes, she misrepresented her resume, as was discovered in Houston - but she ran the Dallas transit system before she came to NJT. Her parents owned a bus company. She had EXPERIENCE. She just never had the money to keep new equipment coming in until the Fed transportation bill came through in 1998. Under DeLibero, on time performance grew to its highest levels since NJT was formed. Fares stabilized. Middle management was eliminated. Costs were kept in check. Equipment was obtained in unusual ways (the Metro Ds were originally leased by foreign companies who then used the international tax laws to profit from the depreciation; the 1996 RTSes were federally funded on the condition that they would be sent to the Atlanta Olympics directly from the factory).
When Ms. DeLibero was introduced to a group of writers assembled at the Bergen Record newspaper offices, someone asked a question about her capabilities. A spokesperson began to give a "politically correct" answer, when Ms. DeLibero interrupted, "I can STILL change a bus tire" with an edge in her voice that one writer suggested meant "Come across the street to the Hackensack Bus Terminal and I'll prove it!"
Jeff Warsh had ZERO experience managing ANY mass transportation entity. He failed to alleviate overcrowding, which was a problem long before September 11th (just ask any #166 or Northeast Corridor rider). He failed to address the ticket collection debacle on the rails. He didn't work to delay or prevent questionable projects like the SNJLRT or Secaucus Transfer until vital daily operational needs were met, like lobbying for the badly-needed 4th tunnel into NY Penn Station which would benefit NJT and Amtrak immensely. Warsh hired a "design guru" for $140,000 a year, and all he really came up with was 9256, which Warsh admitted he didn't even like. I think we can both agree $140K puts 4 more bus drivers on the road. Warsh hired 200 managers AFTER McGreevey ordered a hiring freeze.
Even the fare increase, which I agree was necessary, failed to address things like
* zone disparities - why zones on PABT bus routes are larger than other routes
* consistent monthly pass discounts - the longer your trip the less you pay. A monthly-pass bus rider from Toms River to NYC pays the same >50% as a senior citizen.
* the use of train passes on parallel buses and vice versa
* the Hudson Bergen LRT fare po;icy is completely incompatible with the bus or train fares it connects with
NJT needs two things - a true transit management professional, and dedicated funding, such as a hike in the NJ gasoline tax. The right person will do wonders here.
I have never heard of this company until today. I read this on "Ctrabs" webpage of NJT bus rosters and stuff. What are the colors of these FOUR buses and THREE vans? Thanks for answering in advance.
Lion Corp of N.J. operates the Cape May-Lewes Ferry shuttle bus between the Ferry Terminal and Cape May City Transportation Center. AFAIK, the four Flxibles used by Lion are in NJT colors. I haven't been to Cape May in about three years, but I do recall the vans were painted red for use on local bus services within Cape May City.
Don't they run Routes 890/891?
The 890/891 buses which operate in Phillipsburg, NJ and Easton, Pa. are operated by Delaware River Coach Lines, which, IIRC, is a subsidiary of Trans-Bridge.
Have fun!
Kinda bland for now, huh?
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
Can somebody tell this bus to cover itself up?
Have fun!
Lemme know if it's too dark...if it is...too bad...I don't have Photoshop...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
You might not wanna be lopsided when you do you photos.........Words for the Photo Expert!!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Anyway, its a D4500 - the rear section between the wheel and the bumper is too long.
No,
#8503 is a D4000 Cruiser, not a D4500...the D4500s (with the exception of #8202 and #8204) haven't come in as of yet AFAIK (correct me if I'm wrong)...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
That's not where you check the length of an MCI D-series. The rear azles are NOT in the same place as they were on the MC-series or A/B/C 40-footers. They were moved forward 6 inches to accomodate the new engines (Cummins M and Detroit 60) which because they are inline-6 cylinder config, take up more space than a Detroit 6V/8V-71/92 engine (which would only be 3 or 4 cylinders long).
The correct way to determine the length of a D-series is luggage door 3. If it's a narrow opening, you have a 40-footer. If it's a same-size opening as doors 1 and 2, and has an additional panel before the drive axle, you have a 45-footer.
Another easy way to check lengths of the D-series cruisers is count the number of passenger windows. If there are 7 passenger windows behind the driver/door, then it's a D4000; if there are 8 passenger windows, then it's a D4500/01/02.
Actually,
As I was trying to get two things at the same time, let's just say it was a bit intentional, getting the bus and the Midtown skyline at the same time...it was quite an intentional thing to do that (why, I dunno...but thank you...
>>>By the way, for those who don't know...I am not posting pics trying to compete with T-Drive or anybody here, for that matter...I am just doing something with my time as opposed to making spam posts about garbage that gets everybody mad (like SOME person or people, wink wink)...if anybody thinks there is competition between me and T, please just get over it, there isn't any...he's doing what he does best and I''m doing what I do the only way I know how...
Just wanna let y'all know..
Carlton
BTW, T-Drive, I thought you told me that you don't consider yourself a professional photographer...lol
Any word if the 8000's at Jackie Gleason will leave or will they stay?
Until the Orion VII CNGs come in, they wil stay. When the VIIs come in, about 50 of them, the JG Depot 1992 TMCs will leave and go to another depot, which AFAIK is unknown at this point...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
i guess they will move to either UP or FP once the new Orion VII come in-just a thought.
8565 and 8566 are the only 2 that i would like to see come to flatbush. they were there for a while but were returned to gleason. they both already had the series 50 dd motors when they were brand new. they were so to say the test vehicles for the 50 motor. both are still fast .
Hope ya like! (This will be the last pic post for tonight...)
Are they crazy or what? NJT colors splattered all over the bus like that? What are they trying to do, make people drop everything and say "HUH?!?!?"
Well, 'till next time, be safe, be cool, and for God's sake, stop the fighting here!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
People at NJT call that a work of art!
How come NJ Transit doesn't run these buses on the 139 (rt 9) line?
It's time to get rid of the old 5000 and 6000 series and Suburban/Coach USA buses.
The 139 line has some 102-DWA3 CNGs and I believe I saw some D4000s on that line the day I took that pic...
BTW, I was on 40th St...on the incline, so that's why the bus is diagonal in the picture plane...nevertheless, a good pic, ya agree?
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
That would not happen to be the same bus I saw in a NYTimes article a few weeks ago, would it? For me, the paint scheme fits the B10m design really well. Whether it will fit the design of the T80-206, Metro D, or D4000 is an entirely different matter.
Yep, same one...#9256.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...Cruising the Northeast Fare-free!
This is a bold step for NJT, or for any agency for that matter. There is a great need to break out of the moldy-oldie look of last 2 or 3 decades. CTtransit did it with the new low-floors.
The over the top stripe has seen its time. (So,naturally, Westchester picks it up!)I'm sure NJT won't stick to this scheme. It fits the Volvos which won't be around too long. Not sure what it would look like on a railcar or locomotive.
Tri Met, a transit service provider in Portland, Oregon, rated 21st largest bus transit agencies in the US. Tri Met is currently operating 33 miles of Light Rail named MAX and 101 bus routes....
A New Tri Met Photo Section in
NA TRANSIT
Enjoy!
A Little Something For The Yankee Fans....
A Little Something For The Mets Fans....
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
You really like that x83 routing, dont you????
The Viking is VERY European looking . Trevor can you or anybody else tell me more about it?
Tommy, you can get more details at the New Flyer website - click here:
New Flyer D45S
Kcram3500 Thanks for that. Ive put it on to my favourites and will take a good look.
In the interest of fair play....
SEPTA 5395 in Phillies full wrap
... And a little something for Phillies fans...
I get an image saying that this image is hosted at Angelfire.
AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!! (Sorry, had to vent.)
When I posted the article earlier, there were no problems. I guess Angelfire is very touchy about pix being posted for whatever reason.
In any case, go to my web site, and click on the 2001 SEPTA Roadeo link to see a picture of NABI 5395 in a Philadelphia Phillies full wrap.
I just right clicked the link and selected "copy link location" then pasted it in the netscape browser
Posted by Tevi on Sun Feb 17 19:42:17 2002
I get an image saying that this image is hosted at Angelfire.
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Yes!!! She was and is still my vote for the last 1982 RTS to go, even though she is not doing any more xpress service.
No one will beat 2270 for 1981 RTSs
And that bus is now legal - 21 years old and still going.
i saw her last night on the M16 route-along with #4879 and #3476(keep your eyes out for that one-shes got the old windows-hope it lasts)
I saw her around 1230pm yesterday at 34 St and 6 Ave on the M16 going away from Penn Station. 9522 was right behind her on the M34. Someone had 1826 as a MJQ Bus? I think she's been there since her revival. Also saw 4886 on the M6. And just to think this time last year, I rode 4879 on the Q17?
Trevor-great shots of both the Vikings and 1826.
#1826 M16
#9522 M34
#996 X51
#4886 M6
Enjoy! (Look at the Destination Sign Glass)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Sorry...
Hard to tell using a television screen as a monitor.... but could that be the result of vandalism, or damage resulting from the bus wash?
Looks Okay to me! Then again, I mostly see Triboro Orions, and they look like crap already. I do see QSC 400 series Orions on the Q67 daily. They still look and sound fine to me!
Well that Series 50 (as well the 60 like in the new NJT Cruisers) does shake alot. Both in CNG and diesel versions.
Run 01/QB44 under the Queensborough Bridge facing east towards Jackson Avenue.
Photo property of and copyright QvDepot.Com
This time, i did have a express coach(#9295-run 008)-but we HAD A LEADER BUS IN FRONT OF US!!!!)-the ride wasnt as crowded-in fact-our bus was early becasue the lead bus was picking up the extra passengers. If the B1 had a trip starting at 86th St-25th Av-my run would not be so crowded in the morning.
Any reason why the MTA did not purchase this model bus when getting the artics?
The D60LF lookd real good from the New Flyer site.
Also the same be said about the 40HF as well(can be used as a replacement for the Nova RTS);unless the TA goes back to Orion V's for high floor transit buses.
Today, I finally got out of the house/work routine to do a little shopping and other things. Now as I'm riding around South Jersey, I caught sight of these buses; 1264 on the 407, 1267 on the 405, and 1266 on the 453. They look like they had a minor paint job, and they're stripped of all of their advertising. Now what are they doing here in South Jersey, and which buses are going elsewhere?
Those are the former Airlink buses from Newark Airport, 1262-1267. Now that the Newark Airport rail station is open, those buses were converted back to normal RTS interiors (they used to have large luggage racks), and have returned to normal service. Considering where you saw them, they are likely all Newton Avenue residents now. They seem "naked" because Airlink buses never wore ads.
Trevor has some really good shots of 1263 in the Airlink scheme at Newark Penn Station.
Thanks for the info, but I have another question, why Newton Avenue?
Is it that we need more wheelchair buses? Or is there another reason they're down here?
That's a possibility. Many of the Metro B suburbans are down in South Jersey, and most of them are not wheelchair accessible. NJT is still deciding whether to rehab them or replace them - that will depend on what capital money they can get from Trenton or Washington. If they can get the replacement costs (close to $300K per bus), they'd probably put out a bid next fiscal year (after July 1, 2002). If Nova is still producing the RTS by then, they'd be the lead, but Neoplan could make a strong push with AN440 suburbans that would match the AN460s.
About 80 Metro B Suburbans (40096-6T; 3000-3280) are wheelchair accessible. The entire 40102-6T Metro B fleet (3500-3605) - which is almost entirely in North Jersey (mainly Market St and Fairview) - is not wheelchair accessible. The bulk of the Metro Bs are actually at Washington Twp, while Newton Ave has a handful of Bs and about 20 Metro Ds.
Now according to policy, all Southern Division transits and suburbans have bike racks, I wonder, do any North Jersey buses have bike racks on them?
I saw it running the M14 line today. I saw it once on the M15 and this bus now have Hudson Pier Depot Logos. Do anybody know why Hudson Pier got this bus?
I rode it on the M42 which is a MJQ Depot Line. Guess HP needs buses.
#3893 M42
Just like every other bus in the fleet, EVERY bus is subject to movement. No bus is "PERMENANTLY" assigned to a garage, when Coliseum opens up and Manhattanville gets thier CNG upgrades, you'll see CNGs being moved around. Again, NO BUS IS PERMENANTLY ASSIGNED TO A GARAGE/DEPOT.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Everybody LOOK at this Photo of a Tri-Met D40LF with Ad's abouve the Window.
Almost Bat-Wings !!!!!!
Now THAT's practical. Getting some ad revenue out of the otherwise unsightly and useless whitespace above the windows on low-floor buses. WMATA's done something similar, but only for service promotions -- when they start selling ad-space on these neo-Batwings, we'll really be cookin'.
C
That Tri-Met bus ad is very European looking. That type of advertising has been popular there for many years particularly on street cars. In fact I believe the MAX LRV's in Portland have been using the top spaces for ads. It is very practical and does not conflict with any attempt at putting colors on the car body, like striping.
Don't get so excited. Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) has been using the large "forehead" above the windows of their MAN Americanas (4000-4361, 1985 792 SL40102L) to sell strip ad space for some a few years now.
It's kind of a cool look, but I think it could get a bit out of control were it applied to every bus.
Well considering how SEPTA is always crying for money, maybe this could be a cool idea for them to try. Oh by the way, they are finally putting ads on the Flyers. It looks somewhat OK, but it seems too low for the pedestrians to see.
Is SEPTA always crying for money?
No wonder their system map cost $7.44 that expensive when I went to the Museum Store...
Hello,
Some of you will probably reckognize me from Subtalk but this is the first time I've used bustalk. Anyways, I'm selling some extra slides including a lot of Toronto bus slides, most of which are fishbowl pictures. If your're interested, please see message 326951 on Subtalk for more information. There are also streetcar and subway slides for sale.
Thank you,
Robert King
Hi! I've been looking at a list of bus numbers by depot, and I noticed something: some of (but not all) of the older bus numbers have the letters "PA" before them. One that pops into mind is PA1767 from the Queens Village depot. I have seen this bus in person once before (running on the Q31), and it only said 1767 on the bus. Now, I'm assuming that PA stands for Port Authority, but I could be wrong. And if I'm right, what makes these buses different from the others?
The Port Authority paid for them when they were purchased in the 80's. A large number of NYC abd NJT buses were purchased in this manner, and then they were leased to the agencies for 1 dollar a year.
Also - many of the "PA" buses at NYCTA did not keep their "PA" markings too long. In most cases when the TA painted the buses the "PA" decals were not re-applied.
Wayne
The buses purchased by the Port Authority of NY & NJ were as follows:
1981--PA1318-PA1658, PA2301-PA2579
1982--entire fleet
1983--PA3091-PA3325
1984--none except for PA3634
1985--none
1986--PA4300-PA4344.
While all of remaining "PA" buses no longer carry the PA designation, they are still regarded as Port Authority purchases. Some buses, however, still carry PA's on their interiors (PA1751, PA4342 out of QV come to mind.)
Mark
Memories, memories. Now 3634 is one I did not know about. Of course there was also the Grumman 870 #PA1-PA175.
Wayne
I was on RTS 3976 a few days ago on the Q88. That bus was from 1985, and it certainly looked it. Interestingly, all of the logos on the outside of the bus were Ms that were dark blue on one side, and then gradually turn to light blue on the other side. Underneath the M it said "Surface Transit." I was born in 1985, and I lived in Flushing until 1994, when I moved to Vegas. In July of 2001, I moved back to Flushing again with my parents. Back in '94, I remember bus numbers being in the 3000s, with the M logos on them. Nowadays, the buses all say MTA on them. I'm assuming that sometime between 1994 and 2001, Surface Transit changed its name to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. Am I right about this? Oh wait, I'm getting off topic here. My original question was this:
3976 had the Ms on it, but I've seen older buses (3960 comes to mind) with MTA logos on them. Did the MTA change all the logos when they took over? If so, why was 3976 an exception?
I'm curious. :-)
The MTA reorganized the bus system around 1994. Gone were the distinctions between the NYCTA (Transit) and the MABSTOA (Surface) designators on the buses. Each borough became its own division, and these divisions are part of the new entity called New York City Bus. The subway became know as New York City Subway. MSBA became Long Island Bus, and the LIRR and Metro-North kept their identities. All of this was a marketing and organizational move by the MTA.
Keep in mind that the new monikers for the different afencies are purely for customer service purposes only. When the time comes for official documents, e.g. legal briefs and legislation, you will still see names like "New York City Transit Authority," "Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority," etc.
Posted in part by mdlbigcat:Each borough became its own division, and these divisions are part of the new entity called New York City Bus.The "New York City Bus" designation isn't really a new entity unto itself. The idea behind the designation is geared towards a new entity however. See below.
All of this was a marketing and organizational move by the MTA.The marketing move was actually to designate the shortened name "New York City Transit" from "New York City Transit Authority" in order to appear "friendlier" (as if that was possible).
The idea was to drop "Authority" from the agency name to better interact with the general public. THIS is the 'marketing camaign', and where it ends. More below.
Posted in part by 137th St - CCNY:Keep in mind that the new monikers for the different afencies are purely for customer service purposes only.The reality is, NYCT (formerly NYCTA and Surface Transit [official designation of the agency is now 'Department of Buses'] abbreviated the name "New York City Transit Authority" for customer service purposes, however, the designation "New York City Bus" is part of a greater plan. One in which the MTA and NYCT are hoping to create. A new non-civil-service entity deemed "Regional Bus Company".
Without detailing it here, you can find out more about regional bus, the inception thereof, the merger of NYCT TA/OA/LIB and possibly the privates at http://www.qvdepot.com/union and click on 'Regional Bus', or access QvDepot.Com and select "Union Info from the main menu.
HTH
Considering that the TWU's contract is up this coming December, along with the state of their health plan, things are bound to get ugly. ATU in Queens will not bite at the consolidation for the sole reason that it will get swallowed up and digested into the books of history. And since Toussaint said that he won't accept a deal that ATU won't accept, were looking at some serious **** for this winter.
Actually, the TWU contract expires the same time as the ATU contract- December 15th 2002. For the first time in many years, all three surface transit unions will be bargaining (although the TWU usually does much of the bargaining, while the ATU does the collecting).
I can tell you this- if the TA pushes this Regional thing, there will be no NYC bus service, and most likely, no transit service at all.
There's an entire laundry list of demands that the unions have come up with in order to accept the RBC. Demands that NYC couldn't possibly afford, or want to offer. Hence, the discussions are moot.
You're right about what might happen in December. Keep reading The Chief, Qvdepot.Com and the Regional Bus section of the TWU Local 100 website for updates.
Regional bus company seems like a great idea.
Reduce adminstrative costs of 4 separate organzations
Well sure, to the general riding public, it probably would be better. However, because it means consolidating my agency, numerous givebacks and loss of benefits, as an employee I'm against it. Just think how you would react if your agency were to do the same.
It's look out for #1.... through #50,000± (including TWU/ATU/LIB and privates) and it won't be pretty.
Maybe they just never got around to changing the logos on 3976?????
When you have over 4,000 buses, doing a change on the fleet, surely one bus or two might slip through without getting done -- especially when it is NOT a safety related issue.
Spotted GBL Orion 5522 parked on the lawn in front of the paint shop. I think she was getting a new coat of paint since they were in the process of applying masking tape and covering the windows.
Is this the shop on Route 112 on the Medford / Coram border ?????
That's the one.
In reading bus manufacturers specifications there are three terms that I do not fully understand. They are "Approach Angle", "Breakover Angle" and "Departure Angle". They all usually have values in the range from 8.5°-10°. I am not sure what exactly is being measured by each term and whether higher or lower numbers are preferable. Any help???
Tom
Approach angle determines how steep an ascending-angled driveway or ramp a bus can approach without scraping the bumper/front end. Departure angle is the same when leaving that same ramp back to level ground for the rear bumper. Both of these angles are measured from the centerline of the tire at the ground to the lowest portion of the body at the bumpers. If something is hanging lower than the bumper, like a tow hook, the angle is measured to that point. If a bus has an approach or departure angle of 9 degrees, that means it can only negotiate a ramp that is 9-degrees or less above level.
Breakover angle is measured between axles to the lowest body point midway between the axles, and determines what kind of descending angle a bus can take without getting "high-centered", or the body between the axles scraping the ground. This is often encountered when turning from a level street downward to a ramp, or coming up a ramp to a level street. It also applies when the bus is cresting a hill. If the breakover angle is 8 degrees, then a bus cannot handle a change from level road to a ramp that s more than 8-degrees below level.
Obviously, the higher the numeric value, the more agile the bus is. In order to do that, the axles must be relatively close to the bumpers, and have a short wheelbase. Or, the bus body must be relatively high off the ground. None of these "extremes" are useful. If the axles are too close to the ends, the turning radius gets much wider. If the wheelbase is too short, the bus has a bouncier ride. If the body is too high, then people can't get in it easily and the bumpers will be too high to keep from destroying a car in a collision. So what you see on most spec sheets is a reasonable compromise of all these factors.
Today's Newsday, 2.17.2002, in the LI Life Section, has an excellent four-page article about the S92, the "Point to Point," which serves both forks of Long Island, Orient to Riverhead to East Hampton. Title: The Bus Stops Here. It quotes Suffolk County's director of transportation services saying that the route gets 250,000 paid fares a year. Could someone identify the old bus (1940's)in the photo on page G9 with Harry Reppin as driver? The article says that the county pays Sunrise Coach Lines $850,000 annually to operate the lane, and Sunrise collections $268,000 in fares, which it turns over to the county. The main photo shows Gillig bus 960. See www.newsday.com
That Bus in the Pic is happin to be one of the 20 97xx Series Gillig 30 Foot Buses. Those buses are often on the 10C and some Riverhead Lines.
No. Take it from me. I live in Southampton and the S92 runs right by my college! The S92 is the longest and most deppendable route on the East End today. As for the photo, that is a 97xx bus on the 10C from East Hampton to Montauk BUT they run in Riverhead, Bridgehampton, Montauk, Southampton and Hampton Bays on the 10A, 10B, 10C, 10D and 10E. Once in a blue moon, they also run on the S90. But the S92 runs about 5 to 6 buses during the weekday and about 3 to 4 during Saturday. No service on Sunday or holidays...except for today. The 10A bus at my college...Southampton College is running!
I found the link to the Newsday story about the S-92.
Yeah that sounds like nice pretty rural bus run. And just like in my neck of the woods, there are the poor migrants who spend their lives trying to please the rich.
So what other routes would you nominate for rural bus runs?
LI Bus has several semi-rural runs, one of them is my home run.
The N21 once it passes east through Roslyn, you go on winding roads with crescent moon indcandescents, and up through Sea Cliff. It's pretty hilly up here as well. The end though is not scenic, it's in decrepid run down Glen Cove.
The N20 has some pretty out-there stretches on Northern Blvd in Old Brookville as well as route 107. The only bus stops are at NYIT (on 25A), CW Post, and SUNY Old Westbury collages.
I guess it you want to get off on 107 you're screwed because there's no bus stops there. Unlike SCT I don't think LI Bus offers flag down service, not at least there.
The N23 also ends in a nice nautical setting in Manorhaven.
The N57 (Great Neck loop) which I haven't taken in awhile runs through some pretty middle of nowhere areas of Kings Point. And I have actually seen flagdown service there, I don't even think they were marked bus stops.
Bee-Line also has runs like that as well(i:e the W1-White Plains/Riverdale via US9(Bdwy))is nice rural run until it hits Yonkers.
The 11A route of Rockland Coaches was the most scenic for me taking me through towns in NJ like Leonia and Westwood, then on a winding road in NYS before it gets to Route 9W with a gorgeous view of the Hudson River.
Bee Line 45 Line is verry nice when it go's on Shore Road from Pelham Bay to New Rochelle.
NJT has some really rural bus runs, particularly in South Jersey. Lines like the 317, 408, 410, 508, 552, 553, 554, and 559 are real country runs that take you into farmland (yes, they still exist in NJ!), Pine Barrens, and rinky-dink one-stoplight towns. These are some of the most scenic runs in this state, and few other systems can duplicate them. And these lines have regular schedules, like hourly or 2 hourly schedules, not a trip here and a trip there (although the 313/315 operatres in this manner). The 553 can get down to trips every 15 minutes at certain times of the day, what a remarkable schedule for a rural line. So if you want to see some rural scenery, come to South Jersey and get an eyeful.
The 553 tends to operate more as a connector route from Atlantic City to the "cities" of Cumberland County (Vineland, Millville, Bridgton), hence the service levels. You could make the same arguement for the 552, 554, and 559, since those lines also connect Atlantic City with the more "rural" parts of South Jersey. The 508 operates to Stockton State College in Galloway Twp, but also serves Pleasantville and Absecon, which could be considered "suburban" to Atlantic City, but rural to the rest of the state.
You could also make a good arguement that the 193 and 196/197 are also rural runs once you get past Willowbrook Mall/Wayne Twp.
On Staten Island, believe it or not, there is a small area where you feel like you are riding a rural route. The S-54 and S-57 in the area of Rockland Avenue reminds me of riding buses in Upper Westchester County, especially the # 15 Northwest Limited. Unfortunately, that ambience in Staten Island only lasts for a mile or so, then it gets back to the "Brooklyn West" feeling.
Yes Staten Island has some pretty rural runs. The S78 to Tottenville as well as the S74. Tottenville itself feels quite "out there".
Someone explain this one to me. In a article posted in Fridays Daily news, the new subway cars are comning to 10-30 per month. HOWEVER, the majority of any bus order isnt taking till the summer at the earliest. I mean, #7560, the Orion VII bus currently being tested in GH is almost complete. If the TA has decided on this bus, why is it taking so long for the order to come in? Just a thought.
The bus is not fully decided on, its still on its 30-day acceptance testing, and after that, what ever changes that need to be made will have to go through a design team at Orion.
This is why the 50-56 Orion 7s that are slated for Gleason this year will not show up until the later summer-early fall!
Also bus manufacturing and rail manufacutring are totally different in delivery levels!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Does anybody know the roster for the GM Blitz for each bus depot?
It had been posted within the past 1-2 weeks that the Urban Transit Club plans to post the entire Blitz Fishbowl rebuild roster at it's website (http://www.utcyn.org). My advice would be to check that website within a few days, as it should be up by then. (If it's any consolation, I've had a few emails about that myself...)
It had been posted within the past 1-2 weeks that the Urban Transit Club plans to post the entire Blitz Fishbowl rebuild roster at it's website (http://www.utcny.org). My advice would be to check that website within a few days, as it should be up by then. (If it's any consolation, I've had a few emails about that myself...)
The UTC webmaster is in the process of posting a list of the original numbers and new numbers of the TA fishbowls which were rebuilt by the Blitz company. I think the original poster is interested in the depot assignments for the individual buses.
Okay, so the Casey Stengel Depot has the Vikings (996-998). Now, my question is this: Will they get rid of them when the MCI's come in? I mean, the Casey Stengel Depot is getting MCI buses 2875-2889 at least so I'm wondering will CS give the Vikings to MJQ since 997-998 were there earlier for there X90 and X92 routes?
No they will not loose the vikings and the numbers for the Stengel, Jamaica and QV MCIs haven't even been finalized, so how can you put out a Series number figure like that.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I just took an educated guess. Figuring that 2824 was at Yukon so I figured that Castleton, CS, JAM and QV were getting them. So, I tried to break it down like that. That's all.
The UTC roster dated 2/13 has the #'s finalized for the MCI distibution.
And I guarantee you it'll change at least two more times before the July delivery date.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I remember living in Queens that the Carey Transportation would take passengers from Jamaica LIRR Station to JFK or LaGuardia Airports. Now, with the NEW AIRLINK service from Jamaica Station to JFK Airport starting soon (like about two years or so) what will happened to Carey Transportation? Will all the buses go to LaGuardia Airport ONLY?
Also, I remember that Carey Transportation has or had MC-9 buses (similiar to ex-NJT 6800-6999 buses). Will Carey Transportation get MCI D4000's. It's been so long since I've been living in Queens. I moved away in 1997 and I saw an MC-9 bus going to JFK from Jamaica Station. Thanks in advance!
Carey Transportation is NON existant and hasn't been for a while now. You have New York Airport Service providing Service from the PABT, GCT and Jamaica. They have some of the ex-Carey MCI A3s and A2s, but for the most part they have brand new/second hand MCI 102-DLA3s and brand new Girardan Cutaways. When Airtrain starts the Jamaica route will probably discontinue. But the PABT and GCT route will remain. But more than likely you'll see a ridership reduction in that too!
NY Airport Service is also Private Transportation which runs the B110 route which currently uses second hand Orion 01.509s and Grumman Flxible Model 40102-6-1 "870 B" buses, NYAS also provides shuttle service throughout the city including a employee shuttle for B&H Photo and Video on 34th St & 9th Avenue. So if NYAS/Private even looses thier Airport services, the will remain with thier other services.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Thank you for that information, Trevor!
Where does the B110 run? Is there a link or something?
I think Carey still operates as Carey Limousine, though . . . I believe the company's still around even if they've discontinued LGA airport service.
C
Do you what the endpoint or endpoints are for the bus for the B & H Photo employees? That's a pretty good fringe benefit, if it is free to employees or not!
NYAS currently has one MCI stick non jersey cruiser in its active fleet(the bus is in the private trails scheme).
There are currenly two junked ex carey mc-9s and one junked mc-8 reposing at the depot
Here is a list of the current NYAS fleet
fleet #
104-109 1988 MCI102A2 RR ex erin tours
110-117 1989 MCI96A3 RR ex video tours
115 destroyed in fire
120 1988 MCI96A2 RR ex private trails
121-123 1989 MCI96A2 RR ex carey
124-126 1989 MCI96A2 no RR ex carey
127 1989 MCI96A3 RR ex Carey
701-705 2000 MCI102DL3 RR ST/TV
721-727 1994 MCI102DL3 no RR ex Hounolulu graylin
21-28 17 pax minibuses
71/76/86 26 pax mini buses
206-218 1995 Orion 1 ex PACE
all Grummans have been retired
For your information, the B100 goes from Williamburg to Boro Park in brooklyn the fare is $2.75 per ride. Neither the NYAS routes or the Private Transportation rute is public funded. Video tours is the other division in the company offering scheduled serve from Brooklyn,Queens , and Long Island to Altlantic City and OTR charters with four additional Prevost 45 series coaches and pool arrangement with the 700 seies MCIs. All three compaies are run by the MCIZ group
Carey folded in late 1998. My mother used to work in the office located in the JFK cargo area.
With the MTA-NYCT, the dispatcher or supervisor tells you what bus you are driving. In one week, you could have driven three to five different buses...at least (I'm not an expert so let me know). With Suffolk Transit, you are assigned the SAME EXACT BUS EVERY SINGLE DAY...unless that bus is in an accident or needs work. On the S92, I see the same guys driving the same buses....#9604, #9608, #9661, #9664. On the 10A route....#9714 is always the one. MAYBE #9711 will sub for the day and even a Flxible Metro-B #9332 (The only Flxible bus we got). Just wanted you guys to know just how small Sufflok Transit really is despite the 50 routes in Suffolk and Eastern Nassau Counties.
S92 - #9608
10A - #9714
i think that only happens becasue a bulk of the Suffolk Transit routes are not comning out of the headquarters in Happauge. The S1, for example is currently running Gillig buses(#9600's) and have been running them there for the last 5 years or so. Havent seen many newer buses, except for Orion V or the S54 line.
That's actually true in a sense. I used to always get 9108 on the 7B route every morning and 9630 or 9631 on the S54 depending who's driving. I got to know one driver on the 7A that used to let me ride to Ronkonkoma and back to Patchogue without charging me an extra fare so I wouldn't have to wait an hour for her to come back.
What is #9108? A Flxible Metro?
Bus 9108 is a 1990 Gillig I think!
I was on bus #9711 and it sounded better than #9714. Again, this bus appears once in a while at Southampton College!
[... Just wanted you guys to know just how small Sufflok Transit really is ...]
It's not just result of the company being SMALL. At this depot we have 337 buses & many drivers WANT the same bus every day.
I'll re-tell a short story of two fellows who are now retired. One worked the AM the other the PM & drove the same bus. One afternoon they were complaining about the fare box not working. The next day when the bus came in from it's AM run the fare box repair crew went to fix it but found the PM guy resting in it & he didn't want to give it up unless they promised that it would be ready by his shift.
I hear guys & gails kidding one another about stealing a colleagues favorite bus. A long time ago we had a driver who would only drive a stick shift bus, even when we only had a couple left. He also liked to drive trolleys at a local museum.
Mr rt__:^)
Yesterday, Sunday 2/17/02, I saw Orion V Suburban 139 running on the S79 route to Brooklyn.
Any idea why this bus was placed on the S79, especially on Sunday when there are less buses running? Yukon has Orions and RTSs - so what's the deal?
The TMC RTS that they have are out of service for repowering.
They do not want to run the oldest GMC buses on the weekends.
Perhaps it was the driver's preference to have 139 rather than a 6000 series Orion.
Either that or he had another bus a 6000 Orion perhaps-broke down with it and they swapped with it 139.
I've also seen 138 on the Q32 on a Sunday. It does happen pretty often.
#138 Q32
#139 S79
If anyone wants to do a comparison between the various B30 experiences, feel free. Mine was today.
My plane landed at gate B13 and I was in the terminal at 10:03 AM. I parted from the rest of my party at about 10:06 and started my sprint to the bus stop. Getting to it is quite a hassle when you have 15 minutes until the next bus (10:20) and the next one isn't for another 40 minutes (11:00). Anyway, I made it with about 5 minutes to spare. The stop is poorly marked in my opinion, I would have never looked for it on the outer roadway. In addition, the sign faces the wrong way, you can't see it from the terminal.
At about 10:18 or so, the bus came. It was Orion V 4393, the same bus Aerotech Shuttle got back on Wednesday. The sign read BWI AIRPORT (no route) and I asked the driver about the destination and she answered she was in fact going to Greenbelt. I paid the 2 dollars, asked for a transfer, and she reminded me it wasn't good for the train, which I already knew. We left a few minutes later with about 10 people on board, half of which had gotten on at the Industrial Park. We went straight onto I-195, then down the BW Parkway which is quite a nice ride, and then onto 495 to Kennilworth Ave to Cherrywood Road and then into the Metro Station. The trip took exactly 25 minutes. The bus has no ads, just posters with the B30 advertisements (great technique, advertise the service we (the passengers) all must know exists since we are using it). There are banners above the windows as well.
I entered the Metro station and went up to the platform to catch a train. I took the one sitting in the station, led by car 3043. I took this to College Park and got off there in hope of catching the CAF cars. The driver of the first train informed me (by grunting, typical green line operator) they were in service, although in the 20 minutes I spent at College Park and then once on board Breda 3234 (I was still dressed more for Florida than for DC), I did not see a single one. The operator of 3234's announcements were quite poor.
At Gallery Place, I changed for the Red Line. I was not wanting to wait at Fort Totten, outside, again, even though it is presumebly faster. I got Rohr 1015, which I took to Friendship Heights, then caught 5131 on the 42, then walked home. Arrival at my house, 12:17. The rest of my party got delayed an hour at BWI when someone left a suitcase unattended and they had to deal with a prolonged police process. They got to the driveway at 12:16.
More on my trip to Florida both here and on SubTalk as time permits...
Welcome back, Oren; thanks for sharing your experience. I'm amused that despite your fruitless wait for a CAF car and all the transfers that you still very nearly beat your family home! My B30 trip also took slightly more than two hours door-to-door . . . it looks like I'll be taking it back to the airport on Wednesday so I'll see if I can beat my time going in the other direction.
Hope you had fun in Fla. Did you get to ride any of the various Sunshine State transit properties? Post the particulars if you did . . .
C
Well, they parked in a sattelite lot and they did have the security issue. I normally don't use BWI but it is a nice thing to have. Shows public transit is pretty fast.
For those of you not aware, Walt Disney World has an extensive system of buses connecting the resorts and theme parks with each other. It is a fairly reliable system for the most part. Buses come approximately every 20 minutes throughout the day on most routes. The fleet is made up of GMC and TMC RTSs as well some Nova low floors (like those in Montreal). The RTSs are quite old. The destination signs are flip dots (and are impossible to read from far away) and the interiors vary. Some are brown 70s colors, others are purple and green. Most buses have wheelchair lifts and the GMCs have their stop requested tapes removed. No one used them on the TMCs even though they were there. The Novas had Balios signs. I did not ride them during my stay. Overall, I was quite impressed with the system, although I think having route numbers would be helpful so people can identify buses more easily. For example, if the PORT ORLEANS sign on the bus also carried the number of the queue to use at each theme park, it would be nice. Also, since I am going on about dislikes with their destination signs, it is absolutely wonderful when your bus can be displaying one of two things and you never know which it will be! The buses appear to be serviced at a garage near the Magic Kingdom, I saw many of them sitting at an Exxon station near the enterance gate.
The LYNX buses in Orlando have got to be the craziest things I have ever seen. I did not ride them but their paint scheme sure looked wierd. I did see one Orion V, the rest were Gilligs. They are also early risers, I saw one out and about at about 6:15 this morning near the airport.
Also, last but not least, if you want to see the craziest airport shuttle bus bay, it is at Orlando International Airport. The buses actually pull into designated parking spaces, then back out once everyone is on board. I think it is somewhat unsafe and am surprised no one has gotten hurt yet.
We and some friends were at Disney World back in June. We saw an old NJ Transit bus. What a hoot. Some private company got the bus and obviously forgot (?) to take the NJT stripes off.
The Disney transit system is pretty good, between the busses and monrail. You do get around very efficiently. We left Epcot at the closing and there was a long line. Some family (mainly the father) tried to cut in front of the line. The Disney bus personnel sent them to the rear. When a bus filled up, they brought in extra buses to make sure that the people got back to the hotels with a minimum of stress.
Our family was down there a couple of yearsd ago. I was amazed at the efficeincy of the bus operation. I wonder why they don't use artics. I think they would do very well down there.
I wonder whether the need for articulated buses as each park closes is great enough to warrant them. Most of the time, a standard 40 foot bus does the job, although some people were forced to wait for another bus after the fireworks at the Magic Kingdom.
Disney's system does seem to be run cery well. I was suprised by the speeds they reached on the Disney highways. At one point a Disney TMC RTS was outrunning the Monorail that I was on.
Wayne
The monorail has a maximum speed of 40 MPH, most cars do outrun it.
Yes, I realized it's not very fast, but I should've mentioned that this particular RTS pretty much flew past us. At that point I knew I needed to take a ride on their buses.
Wayne
I plan to be out in Suffolk County next weekend on a saturday. Is there any Suffolk Garages that i can get good pictures of buses. The furthest i will be out is Syosset, but i want to get to the garage of the S1 route. Anyone know where the garages are?
Syosset is in Nassau County. I'm not sure where the closest Suffolk garage is from there. There's a garage with an open lot out near MacArthur Airport in Ronkonkoma on Lakeland Ave. near Ocean Ave. though it's quite a distance from Syosset, around 20 miles east.
im looking for the Suffolk Garage that houses the S1 route-i know that Suffolk DOES NOT OPERATE the S1 in a sense-i think its ebs bus corp-where is that garage?
Educational Bus Service's garage is lolaced on Sunrise Highway in Coipague, two blocks before Straight Path road.
Just take NYS 27 to County Road 28 (New Highway) you can not miss it. This depot has both Suffolk Transit buses and School buses.
The S-1 is operated by EBT, Inc. a subsidiary of Educational Bus. Their yard is on Sunrise Highway at the corner of New Highway in West Babylon about 15 miles southeast of Syosset. The closest transit bus garage to Syosset is the HART garage which is walking distance from the Huntington LIRR station.
THEY ONLY SERVICE HART BUSES, NO SUFFOLK TRANSIT BUSES !!!!!
Suffolk Transportation Service is one of the garages, 6 Moffet Blvd. in Bay Shore. Next to the railroad tracks at (I think...) Brentwood Road.
Inter County used to have a yard very close to the Babylon LIRR -- at Deer Park Avenue just southof the tracks (east side of street behind buildings).
Today when I got on the Q60(I had MCI Classic #715) about 4:15 this PM. I ask the Driver how much it was and he said $1. I put $1 in and asked for a Transfer and took the Transfer and I sit down.
1. The bus was running on a Weekend Service. Do this mean it's only $1 today?
2. Do they even charge $1.50 on Weekdays when GBL Runs on Weekend Service?
Perhaps they were considering it weekend service because of President's Day.
Thanks! Green Lines and other DOT Complanys charge $1 to ride Local Buses doing weekend service. I got on doing the time when they was to charge $1.50 since that day was a Weekday
****The bus was running on a Weekend Service. Do this mean it's only $1 today?****
You already asked the driver what the fare was and he told you $1. You put in $1 and took a transfer the operator gave you. So what does that tell you what the fare is?
****Do they even charge $1.50 on Weekdays when GBL Runs On Weekend Service?****
You already know they are running on weekend service on a weekday and the operator told you the fare is $1. Again, what does this tell you what the fare is?
BIG AL
I had GBL Buses today also. I started off with 608 on the Q60 which had 288 right in front of me. It idled at 58 St for like 5 minutes and I got off at Queens Center Mall. The ride took a total of 30 minutes from 48 St and Queens Blvd-Woodhaven Blvd-all b/c of the pathetic 1 lane traffic which HAS TO GO!!!
Then 2 GBL Buses were lined up on the Q11 with a mob of people-1162 and 1172-I took 1162 which it was also mobbed with people and very rattly. Its idle sounded like a snake. Got off at Pitkin Ave where I met a friend of mine and hung out. 1172 was a Liberty Ave bus-could not take that.
When I headed back to 48 St and Queens Blvd, I had bus 711 on the Q11 which it was flying up to Queens Blvd. At 62 Dr, when we stopped for a light, someone tried jumping onto the open rear window of the bus yelling come here. I didn't know the person but it happened so quick.
I got off 711 and got on 224 on the Q60 which was as slow as molasses. 15 mph I'd say was tops on this bus on the open road. No wonder why it was a full seated load at 930 pm. I got off at 49 St and once I opened the rear doors, I stepped right onto a spare tire.
Talk about awkward GBL Riding.
#608 Q60
#711 Q11
Isn't this an everyday occurance on Green Bus Lines routes? By the way, If you don't like the Q-60, there is this alternative you may not be aware of, it's called the subway! The subway consists of rapid transit coaches that travel UNDER the ground, where there is usually no double parked cars, no traffic, and usually, NO SPARE TIRES!!
I like buses just as much as the next guy, but if I have to be somewhere quickly and efficiently, I ride the subway. I understand that you would have had to take the #7 to 74th Street, and then transfer to the IND to get to the Q-11. However, it's still usually faster and there is much less aggrivation than the Q-60.
You do have my apologies if you are elderly or handicapped. I realize that subway steps would be a hardship if that was the case.
9 times out of 10 I'd take the subway but I'd have to take 2 trains and walk through the station and up the stairs just to get the Q11. However, I just thought that since the 7 had a G.O. and it was messed up, that the Q60 would be easier to take. I guessed wrong. Queens Blvd is ever so horrible to take above ground. Next time-I head below.
#5506 Q60
#711 Q11
>>>...someone tried jumping onto the open rear window of the bus...
Just what do you mean by that.
Peace,
ANDEE
Maybe someone tried climbing thru a back window.
Yep exactly!
#711 Q11
The fare on the privates for ANYTIME EXCEPT 6am-10am and 3pm-?pm on WEEKDAYS IS $1. That includes weekadys, and weekends
It's called "Off Peek", Monday was a Saturday schedule.
On the LIRR it was also Saturday schedule vs. Martin Luther King's monday which was regular "Peek" weekday.
Mr rt__:^)
The off-peak dollar discount fare is VERY well known to riders who live in areas where the privates dominate. So well known that some passengers assume the same discount applies to TA buses. Whether this is an honest mistake or intentional is debatable.
One Sunday a man boarded a Manhattan-bound Q32 at Roosevelt and 69th. He must have only put in a dollars' worth of coins, because the driver requested full payment.
The guy became very belligerent, insisting that ALL Queens buses charge a dollar on weekends. Assertions from the driver and other passengers that this discount does not apply to TA buses did nothing to change his mind. The driver refused to move the bus until another fifty cents was coughed up. Another passenger offered the troublemaker a swipe from his Metrocard, but no dice. Only after the driver got on his radio and loudly requested the police did the deadbeat drop in another four bits.
The guy got off two stops later. All this nonsense was really WORTH the half a buck and ten minutes delay, wasn't it?
why did the driver waste his time.the policy of nyct is to inform the customer of the correct fare and then just keep driving. the drivers only an operator and if it gets to the point where the customer is arguing with the driver, the driver didn`t follow proper procedure.
You're right, I guess. In the interest of keeping up with the schedule, the driver just should've let it slide, but he might have been fed up with people pulling this "I-thought-the-fare-was-a-dollar-on-weekends" scam. The Queens segment of the Q32 is dominated by routes operated by Green and Triboro, so that driver may well be accustomed to passengers intentionally or otherwise being 'accustomed' to the dollar off-peak fare structure.
It's not the first time a driver has reached the breaking point and refuses to move the bus whether it's justified or not. Some years ago, when the fare was fifty cents, a driver on a morning Q76 wouldn't pull out of a stop for more then ten minutes because he claimed one passenger (out of many getting on) deposited FOUR dimes instead of five. Naturally, this person claimed to have put in five.
I would imagine that in 1977 a driver could tell, even with a bunch of people boarding, whether they've all paid their full fare- digital display of the amount in the farebox? This one must've had a real chip on his shoulder because he turned off the engine and wouldn't budge, even after another passenger offered to put in the disputed missing dime. He kept saying that he was already at his job and couldn't care less if he made the rest of us late for ours.
The allegedly delinquent passenger finally dropped in ten more cents under protest and the bus moved to sarcastic applause. A different passenger suggested to his seatmate that this driver was apparently in need of a specific kind of sensual gratification. He must've heard, because he put the bus out of service at the next stop- didn't offer transfers or add-a-rides. When the masses wouldn't get off, he got on his radio to call the police. Luckily we were at a stop where there were several other lines, and I had my nickel school pass. The indignity was far greater for those who had to pay another full fare to complete their trip to the subway.
This incident, which I still vividly remember almost 25 years later, reflects inappropriate action on the part of the driver. SOMETHING must've pushed him over the edge. If it was a personal matter, there's no excuse. But drivers take so much crap- school kids, people without exact change, people who keep ringing the bell falsely, fare-beaters who pretend not to understand English, people who ask about extremely vague destinations ("Do you go to that store on the busy street by the post office?")- you can't help but understand, ever so slightly.
In most driver-passenger disputes, sympathies among the other passengers usually slightly favor the driver.
Sounds like that N21 incident I had where there was a dispute and the driver didn't move the bus. I'd report the driver, write a letter to the TA this guy should be reprimanded. There's no need to shut off the engine and go OOS just because some guy is short 50 cents.
I haven't had any sensual gratification for a while but I don't act like a jerk.
Whether you're a TA employee or work in customer service, there the old saying "the customer is always right". When you have an upset passenger you just have to let it go or the situation will escalate. Some people can get violent so it's not a good idea to argue 50 cents.
Get a gun with bullet prof vest. Maybe the bus drivers need a taxi style partion.
>>SOMETHING must've pushed him over the edge.<<
Watching reruns of the Honeymooners doesn't help !!
Bill "Newkirk"
Pins and needles, needles and pins.................... :}
Every situation is circumstantial. While it's true that NYCT policy is to remind the customer of the correct fare, then proceed in service, it's also important to remember that there is also a safety factor involved when a customer becomes beligerant. Once this happens, the operator must safeguard the passengers (and possibly him/herself) via notifying console or obtaining police assistance. We're not prison wardens, but we also don't drive with blinders on. There is a certain atmosphere that must be maintained on a bus in order to provide safe service. An unruly passenger, regardless of the cause, is a detrement to others, as well as the safe operation of the bus.
Regarding fare payment, or lack thereof, it's also important to remember that although NYCT policy extends towards operation, it in no way relieves the would-be customer from his responsibility to pay the fare. Any NYCT bus operator has the right and responsibility to flag down a passing patrol car and request assistance from the officers. The rule reflects the personal involvement where operators are concerned, out of safety (or more probably, Injury on Duty status- but that's another issue).
Simply because the individual "beat" the system at this point in time, doesn't mean that s/he won't be arrested five minutes along the route.
For your own information, ignoring the bus operator where fare payment is concerned is no different than turnstyle hopping. They are both fare evasion, and are both governed by NYC statute, punishable by fine or imprisonment.
Thank you for setting the record straight.
it dosn`t pay to get into a dispute with a customer over nickles and dimes.a passenger will only get upset if you start demanding the fare. its not policy and all the driver is suppose to do is follow procedure and that doesn`t involve getting the authorities.
[... the driver is suppose to do is follow procedure and that doesn`t involve getting the authorities.]
Not true ... buses have radios now, so he/she can call the depot & ask for help: be it a sick passenger, a fare beater who he/she feels is a potential threat or to report a mechanical problem. This serves to ensure that service will continue to be provided with little disruption.
Disclaimer: I'm not a official spokesperson of the MTA, TA, nycDOT or my employeer.
Mr rt__:^)
ARE YOU A DRIVER. I AM AN OPERATOR FOR NYCT . our procedure only calls for calling authorities if the customer gets out of hand. i am not about to call and waste my contol`s time with ."yes i have a woman that short changed me $.25. please call the police to have her removed".our job is to inform the customer what the fare is. thats it . we have a key we are to press to record the short fare.n
Newflyer, I appreciate your position, however as I stated above, every instance is circumstantial. Should you follow policy and remind the passenger that 'the fare is $1.50' and subsequently, such passenger becomes beligerant, you are obligated to safeguard the interests of all parties on your bus, which may mean calling console and awaiting instructions.
I never agreed with previous positions which stated that the operator 'held the passengers hostage' over a fare (as in shutting off the bus and sitting idle). I'm stating, if there is a problem, it is your duty and obligation to ensure the safety of all concerned. That may mean contacting console or flagging a police car.
None of which release the passenger from the responsibility of fare payment; and in the interest of the Authority, it is your right to flag down a police officer to remove the farebeat.
thats what i meant when i said if the customer gets out of hand
But getting the cops because of 50 cents is okay with me. It will show other people to not try to beat the fare.
can i ask you a question.do you lose some of your pay if some person comes on and shorts you 50 cents? if you need to make an example of someone then you have more issues to deal with. i have to work my same run every day. i like things honky dorry. if i start challenging people for nickels and dimes then i am asking for trouble. thats why the policy the ta uses is in effect. you don`t raise the tensions of customers thats right they are considered customers and the customer is always right!!!!!! the ta wants the customers to be happy.
In addition to fare evasion, do you also allow smoking on your bus?
i don`t allow fare evaders or smoking. i follow ta policy. if someone smokes on my bus i tell them there is no smoking. at that point i did my job. now if it looks like there is going to be a problem i then take action but i did my job. after 20 years on the job i have had every possible problem on my bus from robberies at gunpoint , stabbings, pick pockets.i know what calls for action and what doesn`t.i have had people on my bus on a hawk trying to have sex in the back of my bus. to me fare evasion by shortchange (nickel and dimes) not something to pull over and not move the bus for.
I see. I'm asking because I'm trying to get a feel for the atmosphere on your bus. While I agree with you that a few nickles and dimes are no reason to interrupt service, I'm wondering, to you, what is reason to interrupt service, or take action. Each of us determines what "necessary action" means, and what circumstances determine reason for interrupting service.
Although you have been operating longer than I, I haven't had many serious problems where police assistance or removal of service was necessary. Basically, because I create my own atmosphere on my bus. Also partly because I know most of my regulars, and know who to keep an eye on to prevent possible situations. Knowing your regulars helps to know when your bus will be empty, and when your bus is most succeptable to incident.
Of course, there isn't much I can do about an individual with a predetermined notion to rob customers (or myself), I can create the atmosphere that everyone knows one another, and we're all 'together'. This may seem inconsequential or insignificant to some, but to the 'new passenger', a feel of closeness among a particular group of bus passengers who engage in conversation with one another, including myself, might not seem like the best forum in which to engage in illegal activity.
At any rate, I want to understand you correctly regarding the above. Should you inform that there is no smoking and subsequently you're ignored, what is your course of action, if any?
In the case of the couple(?) having sex, what action, if any, did you take?
Thanks
i haven`t had a problem with smoking for a long time. in brooklyn that was more of a problem back in the 80`s.i can only speak for the lines i worked in gleason for 181/2 years and on basically the b 41 for the last cpl of yrs.as far as the cpl i told them nicely to leave and find a good motel .
my first 2 trips are rush hour and i do 2 full round trips limited on the b41. i have about 1/3 the bus regulars . most wait for me because i usually get them home faster than my limited leader. the atmosphere on my bus is always the same.relaxed!!!!!
What is the B/O expected to do if large quantities of passengers board through the rear door on a crowded bus? (Does it make a difference if those farebeaters proceed to complain to the paying customers that their bags are taking up too much space -- this on the M60 from LaGuardia?)
I think in an instance like that (large number of people forcing their way aboard through the rear), the B/O could (and should) put the bus out of service and call the transit police. It's one thing if a little old lady is 25¢ short of the full fare; it's quite another thing if an unruly crowd converges upon the bus.
As for farebeaters complaining that travelers who have paid the full fare are taking up too much space with their luggage, tell them to go ____ themselves.
C
My one rush hour M60 ride, numerous passengers poured on through the back door at each stop between the airport and the bridge.
Taking the bus out of service would have been a bad idea. Headways are 15 minutes or so, and most if not all of the seats filled up at the airport itself. That next bus would have been awfully crowded. It's not like there are any other ways to get to Manhattan from the side of the GCP -- the Q33 and taxis were available back at the airport, but not halfway between the airport and the nearest subway.
My subsequent M60 rides have all been uneventful and relatively quick, but they've all been off-peak. Rush hours, the M60 should be restricted to airport passengers: westbound, no passengers should be allowed on once off airport grounds; eastbound, no passengers should be allowed off until the airport. If there's demand for an Astoria-Harlem local, it should be implemented as a separate route.
NYCTA policy is to immediately remove the bus from service and contact console and the authorities.
Well, I'm glad he broke that rule!
Who gets continuation transfers? The farebeaters shouldn't, obviously, but is the B/O expected to remember who's paid?
The B/O is not required to remember who pays the fare and who deosn't. It's the responsibility of the passenger to ask for a transfer as soon as he pays the fare upon boarding. In fact, the sign on the farebox even states, "transfers issued upon boarding and payment of full fare", or something close to that. Once the customer steps away from the farebox, he is no longer entitled to a transfer if he did not ask for one. Most people generally wait to ask for a transfer when they are getting off when they know they put a transfer in the farebox upon boarding. This is especially the case at the last stop on the Q17 in Flushing. I would almost never give anybody a transfer upon alighting the bus, no matter how much crying they did. Once people see one person getting a transfer, then they feel it is OK for them to get one also, and that's how habits start. The only exceptions would be if it was an elderly person who most likely forgot to ask. And unfortunately, I've caught the elderly trying to squeeze an extra transfer from me also, on more than one occasion.
BIG AL
No, I'm referring to continuation transfers, issued when a bus is taken out of service, to allow passengers to continue their trips. In fact, a regular transfer (paper or MetroCard-encoded) wouldn't be valid on the next bus running on the same route.
Well, I'm glad he broke that rule!Hmmm... doesn't sound like the same David who posts in usenet... LOL!
Who gets continuation transfers? The farebeaters shouldn't, obviously, but is the B/O expected to remember who's paid?I didn't mention continuation transfers. Continuation transfers are those which are valid on the same route, in any direction, in addition to other routes, however expire after 30-minutes of issue. Continuation transfers may be issued to persons who've missed their stop, persons transfering to another terminal from the main portion of the same route (Q-46 eastbound LIJ to Glen Oaks or Q-1 Queens Village to Braddock Ave for example), or when a bus is taken from service.
The three leg transfers are issued at point-of-transfer only.
Farebeats do not receive transfers unless the operator feels it is in the best interest of concerned parties (drunk or unruly passenger, mental illness, threatening individual, etc).
And again, every situation is circumstantial. Perhaps those individuals who boarded that particular bus are troublemakers and the operator feared a worse situation could have occured had he stopped the bus and removed it from service. He may have pretended to ignore them although looked for a police car along the way. I've done that on occasion, where I felt any interactment by myself would have worsened a situation.
However, if this is a regular occurance, there are procedures in which the transit police will ride under cover to correct the problem.
Actually, the continuation transfers are valid on the same route in any direction, but NOT in addition to other routes. If people try to use them on any other route, the farebox will say "wrong bus". As stated, they expire 30 minutes after issuance. The prime place where people try to abuse this rule is at Farmers Blvd and Bedell st on the Q85. People will pay with a transfer and purposely get on the Q85 that terminates at Farmers blvd. Then ask for a continuation transfer and try to get on the Q3, JFK bound. No dice. Also, most of the time, if a bus is taken out of service, B/O's are instructed that instead of dumping the people on the street, keep them on the bus until the follower shows up, and load them directly from one bus to the other, without issuing any transfers what so ever.
BIG AL
What, would the luggage-laden David of Usenet prefer to get off a crowded bus, wait 15 minutes for the next crowded bus, and pile, luggage and all, onto a now doubly crowded bus?
I see from Al's response that continuation transfers wouldn't be issued in such a case. Still the question stands: Who gets to board the following bus for free? Everyone on the bus that was discharged? That includes the farebeats.
My impression, although I've only seen it once, is that this is a regular occurrence. Multiple passengers boarded through the rear doors at each stop between the airport and the N train. They were clearly used to it. The practice is tolerated, I suppose, because the bus at that time is crowded and the B/O doesn't feel like dancing around piles of luggage to kick people off.
Off-peak, though, the M60 is a nice ride, especially for the few of us who manage to board at 106th. Aside from my one peak ride, I've always managed to claim the double of my choice, me on one seat and my luggage on the other, and keep it for the rest of the trip.
What, would the luggage-laden David of Usenet prefer to get off a crowded bus, wait 15 minutes for the next crowded bus, and pile, luggage and all, onto a now doubly crowded bus? Ask luggage-laden David! I'm saying, rules and policy is great, unless it's a personal inconvenience.
I see from Al's response that continuation transfers wouldn't be issued in such a case.I wasn't aware that continuation transfers weren't valid on a different route. I'm going to test that on Monday. In any event, if a bus is taken out of service, the newest SOP dictates that each passenger be issued a continuation transfer so the data can be downloaded from the farebox. In theory, that is. In reality, everyone would board the next bus without one, unless the operator is a rookie and following schoolroom rulebook procedure. Technically, I would be in violation of the rules had I not issued a continuation transfer to each alighting customer. Still the question stands: Who gets to board the following bus for free? Everyone on the bus that was discharged? That includes the farebeats.If there is police presence, then no. If not, it's subject to the disposition of the next operator. Of course, in the case of excessive farebeating, I would issue continuation transfers to only those passengers who've paid the fare.
Ask luggage-laden David! I'm saying, rules and policy is great, unless it's a personal inconvenience.
No, I'm saying that this rule doesn't seem to make much sense if headways are more than a few minutes, or if the bus is SRO, or if many of the passengers have luggage. We wouldn't have fit onto the next bus. If the bus had never entered service at all, we could have taken cabs or used the Q33, Q47, or Q48 from LGA -- but once we're on the side of the Grand Central Parkway, there isn't much that'll come along to help us until the next (SRO) M60 pulls up.
I wasn't aware that continuation transfers weren't valid on a different route.
I'd be a bit surprised if that were the case. Some southbound evening M4's turn at 110th and 5th (one such bus pulled up while I was waiting at 122nd and Broadway, just a minute or two after a through-routed M4, with no M104 in sight) -- the idea, I assume, is to get passengers to the point where they can board the M1, M2, M3, or M4, whichever comes first, since their routes are identical for the next 3.5 miles. But if the continuation transfer is valid only on the next M4, what's the point?
If there is police presence, then no. If not, it's subject to the disposition of the next operator. Of course, in the case of excessive farebeating, I would issue continuation transfers to only those passengers who've paid the fare.
Of course that's what you'd like to do -- but now that everyone's mixed together on the same bus, how do you know who's paid the fare?
No, I'm saying that this rule doesn't seem to make much senseWell there's your first mistake, and you know better. Trying to make sense out of NYCT policy. Shame on you.. if headways are more than a few minutes, or if the bus is SRO, or if many of the passengers have luggage. We wouldn't have fit onto the next bus. If the bus had never entered service at all, we could have taken cabs or used the Q33, Q47, or Q48 from LGA -- but once we're on the side of the Grand Central Parkway, there isn't much that'll come along to help us until the next (SRO) M60 pulls up.As stated, the operator placed priority to the passengers on the bus, rather than farebeats. In that situation, a report to supervision and subsequently the NYPD would better service the customers. You shouldn't have to suffer for the actions of a few, however, the rules are the rules. An oxymoron? Well, this is the NYCTA, and is the reason for your initial question of the rule.
I wasn't aware that continuation transfers weren't valid on a different route.
I'd be a bit surprised if that were the case. Some southbound evening M4's turn at 110th and 5th (one such bus pulled up while I was waiting at 122nd and Broadway, just a minute or two after a through-routed M4, with no M104 in sight) -- the idea, I assume, is to get passengers to the point where they can board the M1, M2, M3, or M4, whichever comes first, since their routes are identical for the next 3.5 miles. But if the continuation transfer is valid only on the next M4, what's the point? I agree, which is why I said I'd check it out Monday (or tonight if I get an RDO).
Of course that's what you'd like to do -- but now that everyone's mixed together on the same bus, how do you know who's paid the fare?
Original bus: Every operator can see every person entering through the rear doors, regardless of capacity. We can see just about every square inch of the bus behind us. The identity of those farebeats can easily be described to the next operator or the NYPD.
I already tested the continuation transfer on a different route shortly after the new style transfers came out. The continuation transfer is a code 11, which comes up "wrong bus" on any other route other than the one it was originally assigned to. I believe there is a buffer in the farebox computer which still encodes the continuation transfer from the previous route the farebox was set to. If you set your farebox to code 12, which is "not in service", that transfer will also come up "wrong bus", on all the routes. Every now and then I would get a group of customers coming on my bus with transfers that all came up wrong bus. At first I could not figure out why that was happening because I knew they did not come off my line. I also checked to make sure my farebox was set correctly. Then upon closer examination of the transfer, I noticed it had the wrong code, but the operator of the bus they came from never even knew his farebox was set incorrectly.
BIG AL
Why do they have a continuation transfer if stop-overs aren't allowed. Is that in the event of a breakdown, riders that are on the bus get these so they can get on the next bus?
I explained the reasoning for these transfers in the above thread. You're partly correct. See above for details.
Didn't the TA issue a bullietn to use "10" rather than "11" or am I mistaken? It doesn't matter. I'll check out both tonight. I got an RDO hawk. Be leaving soon.
Then let him not open the rear door. They can do that. Thats how they stop the ghetto at the back from letting people on.
That like the Q17 at 3:05 at Susen B. Anthony H.S.. Rose Parks (is that right? (the black lady from the south that fought segregation on busses)) fought so blacks can sit in the front even though today all the teen black (crazy, durg up, high, violent, spontanious) seiz the back of the bus. Also can a Bus driver forceably close the door on the back if someone is letting people on though that?
The rear door is passenger-operated. Once it's unlocked and open, it's under passenger control until the passenger lets it close. This is a safety feature. (I've had numerous bruises from rear doors on buses without this safety feature -- not in NYC, of course.)
Rosa Park was not a teen. BTW times changed. There are white teen who do that too BTW.
I sit in the back too usually on LI Buses. As far as the kind of people that sit in the back, it is usually young males.
Why I sit in the back? Well because there less congestion back there. On NYCT buses I sit in the single seated side.
I once experienced rear door boarding on an SI Bus. I was riding the S78 from Tottenvile to Eltingville in the afternoon when the schools let out. It was chaos. At a bus stop near Annadale hoards of school kids were waiting to board. Some boarded the front, then opened up the back door and they all poured on. It was totally out of control, and so crowded the B/O could not tell who paid and who didn't. Most who boarded the back did not pay. At the next bus stop more kids, but the B/O just passed them by since we were full (I was worried they'd throw something at the bus, sure enough I think I heard something). Getting off at Eltingville Richmond road, I had to fight my way out through the back door, they were sitting in the stepwell.
They need some more buses out there. One thing's for sure that I won't ride the SI buses in the 2 or 3 o'clock hour.
I should've written a complain about the poor service in that area but I never did. I'm just glad the B/O proceeded to move even though like 30 kids didn't pay the fare. I don't think he'd even attempt to force 30 people to pay their fare.
We at NYCT already know about school kids pouring in through the back doors. We don't need a complaint from you to alert us to a nonexistant problem. The reason I call it nonexistant is because most of the kids you saw coming in the back door have bus passes that let them basically ride for free anyway. I had them pouring in my back doors also from time to time but did nothing about it. In fact, right now on Tues and Weds. I monitor a Junior High School in Brooklyn and actually tell the B/O's to open the back doors to let them in, just to get them on the buses faster. The government and Transit is paying for these kids to ride the buses in the first place, so going after them simply because they did not dip their passes is at the bottom of our priority list. I am more concerned about the regular adults sneaking in the back doors than the kids.
So do us a favor at NYCT, keep sending your complaints to MSBA and annoy them instead.
BIG AL
A key point is that there's no money on the student cards, so all you're doing by requiring them to enter thru the front is record the boarding ... the driver can key them in (keyboard) if he/she has nothing better to do that trip.
Mr rt__:^)
NYCTA policy requires everyone enter through the front door, regardless of fare payment media, including the NYPD and NYCT management. The only exception to this memo are wheelchair passengers or those in need of the rear door area lift.
Hey Al, I hope you come back to Queens soon. We really need an SLD with brains around here. I'll tell you what trick is best to pick.... ;-)
Does that apply to free shuttle buses as well? I often board those through the rear and nobody's ever complained, but is that officially or only unofficially tolerated?
(And I apologize for trying to make sense of the TA's rules. I won't do it again!)
Yes, it applies to shuttle buses, fare paid stauts or not. However, there is usually supervision along a shuttle route who can (and do) override the rulebook with verbal instruction.
Unless otherwise instructed by proper authority (NYCTA), all non-lift passengers must enter through the front doors.
shuttle buses are funded for by rapid transit. their supervision always wants both front and back doors open at terminal points to load the bus.so when i work a shuttle bus i know to open the back door so we can get everyone on the bus and get it moving as fast as possible.
As long as supervision is there and instructs that the rear doors be used for access, then this is correct. If there is no supervision present, all customers board via the front doors. What you decide to do when supervision isn't around is your business, however, safety and regulation still mandate entrance through the front doors exclusively.
If you board via the rear doors without instruction, and a passenger falls on those steps, it's your negligence.
Correct, the policy is for everyone to enter through the front doors. However, just like Brooklyn has been saying, it's circumstantual and every policy NYCT has is rarely followed to the tee. I only let the kids board the rear doors when they are in front of the school at dismissal. I've seen other dispatchers do it also in an attempt to get the buses on the road faster. Most of the school trippers have other trips that have to be completed immediately after the school tripper. This is what John was referring to on Staten Island, but since it was in front of the school, chances are T/A already knows about the problem, if you can call it that. We also have the people board through the rear doors in addition to the fronts on the followers bus when the leader bus is being taken out of service. It is a better way of utilizing maximum load capacity since most people tend to jam the front and nobody likes moving back when the bus is crowded. I have never issued a continuation transfer on my bus when I was going out of service, despite the policy, because most follower operators will not even question the people who just walk on their bus in the stop where the leader just went out of service. It's more or less a waste of time since the main objective is to get the people loaded A.S.A.P., thus another reason for loading through the rear also. I'm sure there were some people who weren't on the leaders bus at the time who just walked on as well. Just call it a lucky day for them. However, absolutely no transfers should be given out to ANYONE getting off the bus for the duration of that trip.
It is correct to follow the exact rules and regulations set forth by the NYCTA. It is also correct to follow good common sense.
BIG AL
One time when I got on a Orion5 532 on Q32 after broading at Penn Station. The next stop 532 went OOS. The Driver said to exit from the front and there was about 20 People on 532 and the driver gave transfers to everyone exept for a Lady and a FEW Others got out from the back door and went on 9532 behind 532 and the Transfers did not show "Q32" on it after everybody got a Transfer. The Driver left and everybody on 532 got on 9532 and put the transfers into the farebox.
When 9532 got up to 5 Ave. 532 turn south on 5 Ave to idk where that bus was going to.
But what about if they live 2 blocks from school and don't legally have a pass. A 3 trip metro-card is I think 1 mile from the school and a 4 trip is if 2 miles or more from the school.
Not correct. Kids that live 1 mile or less from the school are given 1/2 fare metrocards. Over 1 mile and they get free cards. This applies to the green student cards only, not the orange ones. The idea of the 1/2 fare card is to have the kids find an alternative way of getting to school since they live farely close. I don't even know if there are 4 trip student metrocards. I remember when they first came out there was a debate if the kids should be allowed 3 trips or 4. It was decided at the time that the number would be 3, but if the school could proove the kids needed 4, mainly for extraciricular activities, then they could petition for a 4 trip card to be issued to those students. But the last time I heard about that was the first year the cards came out. As far as I know, all student cards are only good for 3 trips.
BIG AL
My mistake! I thought students had to pay for the transit buses in NYC. On Long Island fare with a student card is $1.35.
If students don't have to pay in NYC I can understand the rear boarding thing, though I wish they wouldn't use the stepwell as a seat.
How much is the student fare in NYC anyway? I think it's only like a 25 cent discount here on LI Bus.
Students have two passes. One is a free pass, while the other is a half-fare pass. Since the fare is $1.50, students (as well as seniors/disabled with proper identification) pay $0.75
There is a third student metrocard pass. It's a "Special Program Pass" which seems to be valid for a round-trip with transfers. I believe they are issued to schools in the event that passes are needed for after-hours or extra-ciricular activity, and to any student who needs it. If anyone can confirm, please do.
My high school gives em out when the students go on field trips within the city
Then he shouldn't open the back door. Or he could have two Undercover Cops on problem busses. With a zero tolerence policy with 2 weeks jail time or $50,000 fine for a single violation. Gangstas are kids and they aren't that stupid to beat the fare if one of their buddies is in jail because of fare beating.
Problem is, we weren't issued guns with these badges, and I highly doubt the taxpayers want to fund the extra necessary officers to ensure front-door boarding. The transit police primarilly service the subway system these days.
Also, the TA is in the process of disguising themselves as a 'warm-n-fuzzy' customer-service, customer-oriented transportation company, rather than the cold, heartless, ignorant mis-managed city agency that they really are. Calling in the swat team for their customers bundles of joy wouldn't do much for customer service.
NO, I only DRIVE trolleys & subway cars for FUN at a local museum. I do become aware of some of the problems that drivers have & therefore an interest in understanding. I am also involved in what the farebox charged the customer, the data as well as the health of the box. In a small company like ours it makes for an interesting job, i.e. the variety.
I also know a lot about the various flavors of MetroCards, but that is mostly because I collect them. Had a driver come up to me yesterday with a question about what he had seen a customer do with a MC.
Mr rt__:^)
I have to ask since I make metrocards:
What did the driver see a customer do with a metrocard?
It had to do with the graphics & the expiration date.
The new "Premium" Transit Cheks are unlimiteds that are good for a year. They are yellow vs. grey & get automatically re-newed for another month, again, and again, and again.
Mr rt__:^)
In the incident I site, no one except the driver and passenger knew whether four or five dimes were deposited in the fare box. Who knows? Maybe the driver got confused with so many people getting on at once. Maybe the passenger honestly thought he dropped five in. Dimes are thin, the weather was hot (coins stick to your hand) and it was early in the morning. Anyone can make a mistake.
Point is, this driver seemed unnecessarily officious and nitpicky to make such a stink over one dime- even though that was 20% of the fare back then. To penalize EVERYONE on the bus by first staying in place for ten minutes, and then kicking everyone out (because of someone's off-the-cuff remark about his uptight attitude indicating a need for 'gratification')- well, that's TOO much!!
Funny thing is, it's usually late in the day when drivers would feel burnt out and fed up by all the nonsense they've had to put up with.
Well, if I'm early, and need to kill time, I might make a little stink... it looks better than standing there staring at a green light, pretending to be busy doing something...
;-)
(a little b/o humor here)
I agreed with everything you said except for your last sentence. In most operator-passenger disputes, sympathies among the passengers favors the other passenger 95% of the time. All the operator hears are comments like, "Oh, that bus driver is so mean" or "just pay what you have. He can't throw you off the bus", or "Drive the F**KIN bus will ya". I'll admit, I didn't go as far as sitting in the bus stop and waiting for the passenger to pay the fare. But I did like to play mind games which usually worked even better. I would say,"you don't want to pay the fare. Fine. I'll just flag the next patrol car I see". Usually that would get them up and pay the fare or the balance there off, even though I had no plans of being bothered going to a cop to have the guy taken off and arrested. Granted, bus operators are not allowed to throw anybody off the bus, but there is no rule that says we can not have a cop come on board and arrest somebody for fare evasion. Once the people come to realize that, they tend to have a change of heart about short paying the fare.
BIG AL
>>> In most operator-passenger disputes, sympathies among the passengers favors the other passenger 95% of the time <<<
Maybe it's because of the Bus Riders Union here in Los Angeles, but I have seen several times when a passenger is short on the fare, other riders, particularly Hispanics, will give him/her change to make the fare. The most recent time was yesterday when a man got on a bus (#51 Avalon Blvd) with an invalid transfer (he was trying to round trip with a transfer for the opposite direction). When the B/O said he could not accept the transfer, the man put a dollar bill in the fare box, and rummaged around for change. He didn't have any, so he asked for change from the people on the bus and three people contributed a total of 35¢ he needed to complete his fare. Often the person fumbling for change does not even have to ask. Other passengers will offer coins. Does this happen in New York?
Tom
here in new york i have on occasion have someone give a customer who is short her /his fare some change. it is ussually only after the customer asks if anyone has change.
In southeast Queens, the majority of our bus lines are "feeder routes' to the subway, hence the majority of our customers are bus/subway transfer commuters. I always try to help a passenger with no change by asking others on the bus behind me to accept the individuals' $1.50 in cash, and dip their metrocard into the farebox. This way, the passenger can follow the other through the turnstyle and receive the free transfer.
I know most of 'my people'. I create a very comfortable and friendly atmosphere on my bus (they don't realize it, but I have them talk amongst themselves about a given topic every now and then). Most are willing to help in a heartbeat.
I once got change beacuse a had only 50 cents in change. maybe NYC should have machines that accept dollar bills.
buy a metro card
I have about 50 different aded metro-cards (with ads on the back).
Al, read the latest customer service manual regarding "Ejectment of Passengers".
Maybe a number of TA drivers are seeing that only a dollar went in & just dumping the fare without comment to the passenger. THIS driver didn't do it, so the passenger was upset.
Mr rt__:^)
It happens. Especially in southeast Queens on those routes that intersect with the private lines. I just remind them that the NYCTA does not offer weekend or off-peak discounts. Most are willing to pay, or already have those 2 extra quarters in their hand.
Some still try to slide dollar bills into our metrocard slot, even though we haven't accepted dollars since... 1969?
[The off-peak dollar discount fare is VERY well known to riders who live in areas where the privates dominate.]
What those riders tend NOT to know is that the dollar fare was a purely political move, Rudy Giuliani's gift to Queens - a gift which Bloomberg may have to rescind for fiscal reasons.
As for fare evasion, remember that the DOT carriers don't need to care whether a rider actually pays or not. They're guaranteed to receive their "management fees" plus reimbursement of all costs (including campaign contributions, liability settlements, and "penalties" for lousy service) regardless of fare compliance.
I think the fares should be a uniform $1.50 on the privates all the time. It'll stop the confusion and raise some money for the city.
I think there are a lot of residents of Queens that have a different opinion !
Mr rt__:^)
And I guess you feel that the TA covers it's cost from the fare box ?
Both systems loose money which the State makes up.
Mr rt__:^)
[And I guess you feel that the TA covers it's cost from the fare box?Both systems loose (sic) money which the State makes up.]
"The State" may make up DOT's losses, but not NYCT's.
By law, the "state" portion of NYCT's funding is supposed to come from dedicated sales taxes (0.25% out of 8.25%). However, since 1995, Governor Pataki has diverted that money to upstate interests, as a way of punishing city residents for voting against him in the 1994 election. (That's what forced the 1995 fare increase!!)
I've been driving a bus for NYCT for over 11 years and can tell you firsthand that NYCT buses take an incredible beating during the course of their workday. I was always curious as to what the average duty cycle was for the typical NYCT bus. This months issue of Bus Ride magazine answered my question. In an article dealing with the catalytically regenerated particulate filter that NYCT is installing on it's buses the following statistics were brought out: The typical NYCT transit bus averages 10 miles per hour, stays out in service 12-18 hours per day, makes 10-20 stops a mile and spends about 40 percent of it's time idling. Talk about a difficult duty cycle!
Once again (and it kills me to say this) you have to tip your cap to the RTS for being able to consistently handle this difficult duty cycle over the past 20 years. It remains to be seen if the MCI's, New Flyers and Orions will be able to match the RTS's rugged reliability.
I would say it is highly doubtful any of the other models will stand up to the longevity of the rugged RTS. We all know the Orion certainly can't stand up to the challenge. The people who really deserve all the credit is General Motors. The legacy of the RTS is really being carried over from the GM newlooks which also were the workhorse of NYCT. (Sorry all you Flxible fans) As mentioned before, especially with DHF60 and myself, the only major shortcomings of the RTS is the miserable operator's compartment and the lack of efficiency of the accesories like defrosters, operator's A/C, etc.
BIG AL
Well the Orians seem to be doing pritty good so far.
I remenber when they first arrived folks here were saying how they were going to fall apart in a year, but they're still going & going.
Mr rt__:^)
Is it possible? The answer to this question is YES!
You may say it's impossible-no way! Well a friend of mine who lives along the Q19B Route saw Buses 2144 and 2145 today repainted in the new futuristic scheme and repowered with a tailpipe on top. Who said that the 2100s at TCC were scrap? The CH30H Power is the only thing that was scrapped.
Also, was 2146 lost in a garage fire with 660?
They're ba-a-a-a-a-ack!
#2144 Q18
#2145 Q19B
If I know my Triboro bus numbers correctly, I think the 2100's are the RTS methanol buses and the 2000's are the RTS CNG's, both models from 1994. Perhaps 2144 & 2145 were converted from methanol to diesel. But if I remember, these had the tailpipe on top when they were new.
Nope. TCC buses #M2136-M2147 were similiar to the MTA-NYCT #8401-8564 with the exception of the Methanol. Buses #2144 and #2145 should be repowered and it did not surprise me that they already are.
Are there any MEthanols still running for Triboro?
Blue
I doubt it. Yesterday I was in Ridgewood very close to the corner of Forrest & Myrtle Ave. TCC has a route that passes the location. Several of their RTS's had the large hump on the roof and had the words "Clean Air" on them but no mention of methanol.
Also TCC numbered their methanols as M-24xx. None of the coaches I saw had the "M" prefix.
When I last visited the DOT yard in Canarsie on 8/23/00 bus M-2437 was in the yard awaiting disposal.
It seems that CNG has won out since Methanol isn't mentioned on this board at all and no other company experimented with Meth.
Triboro Coach never renumbered their Methanols to M24XX. They were M2136-M2147. The 1 can look like a 4 from far away or at a very quick glance.
Last I knew, M2140 was still running around as the sole Methanol Powered Bus. If it's still running as a Methanol now I doubt it.
Look for 2136-2147 to be back on the road-repainted and repowered. CH3OH Power is no more. It is now extinct in North America as Triboro Coach was the last company operating them.
#2140 Q18
#2145 Q53
Also what became of Triboro M-1 thru M-6 number wise?
Were they re-numbered upon repowering or sold outright?
Blue
M1, M2, M4 I think were scrapped. M3 was reconverted to diesel and is now running as Jamaica Bus Lines #3701. M5 is now Green Bus 653.
M6 is now Green Bus 654.
Hope this helps you out.
#653 Q10
#654 Q10
#3701 Q111
Thanks for the info.
MEthanol has always intersted me since we here in LA had the largest and most disaster plauged fleet 333 TMC RTS 06's from the factory, 10 home made conversions to GMC RTS 04's,a nd ne M.A.N testbed that never ran in revenue service.
All now happily forgotten by LACMTA.
Blue
Did any of the East Coast Bus operator's send buses to Salt Lake City to help out with the large amounts of people to be moved.
If they did , did they send good stuff or old rubbish.
I always think that events like that give Car people a chance to sample what Buses have to offer.
Who knows. I was on the list to operate in Salt Lake City, but because the union is so disorganized and there's so much misinformation from unreliable sources, nothing ever happened (as far as I know).
First, they were sending us in lieu of our runs, then they mandated that we use our own vacation time while working there. Would you want to work on your vacation, regardless of where and why? Not me! I don't want to see a bus on my vacation... regardless of where it is.
We had the same situation where I drive (southern California). I was on the list to go, but decided against it just before last November, when I heard a couple people saying how drivers who did this sort of thing at the Atlanta 1996 Olympics never got paid, that the company administering the temporary drivers filed bankruptcy.
Our agency sent 60 1988-1989 Gilligs up there and about 50 drivers. I know San Francisco Muni sent 50 brand new buses -- Culver City sent five 1998 New Flyer C40LF's. I also saw some San Bernardino Omnitrans RTS's being flat-bedded up to SLC a couple months ago.
Steve thanks for that.
It is amazing how many companies have that type of attitude. They want the work covered BUT expect their workers to do all the graft.
We had the Tall ships race here last year with thousands of extra visitors. No cars were allowed into town, anybody going to the event HAD to park in temp Park and Ride carparks miles from the event and the buses supplied for the transfers were mainly old reserve fleet stuff-------not a good impression for car users.
Out of town drivers were put into Travelodge type rooms---Basic but instead of 2 to a room they sqeezed in 4.
As you say why drive a bus for your vacation, you do it all year.
Same for lacmta. If you applied to go - you had to bid your vacation during the olympics before knowing whether you were selected or not.
Posted by Brooklyn67 on Tue Feb 19 09:10:13 2002
First, they were sending us in lieu of our runs, then they mandated that we use our own vacation time while working there.
Yes, WMATA has sent 40 of their brand new New Flyer C40LF buses to Salt Lake City.
Wayne
Good for them. Did they send drivers as well?
No, but they sent two Metrobus supervisors (one a Bladensburg Garage superintendent) to oversee the transport and loading/unloading of the buses (they were transported cross-country by a contractor on flatbed trucks). The Olympic Committee is paying for the cost of hauling the buses XC and hosting the supervisors.
C
BTW, most of the buses WMATA sent to Atlanta for the '96 Olympics (primarly the then-new 1995 Flxible Metro-Ds) bear small plaques on the dashboard commemorating their service as part of the Olympic Transportation System . . . I suspect they may do the same with the C40LFs sent to SLC.
C
>>>...bear small plaques on the dashboard commemorating their service as part of the Olympic Transportation System . . . <<<
Brand new NYC busses (at the time) have no such plaques on them.
Peace,
ANDEE
Only WMATA got them I would imagine and we applied them ourselves. I have only been on the Metro-Ds once or twice and never saw it. They don't run in my neck of the woods.
I knew of a few of the WMATA's at the time that had gone down becuase the ads inside were replaced with Olympic ads all through the bus that none of the others that stayed up here had. I know 4050 was down there and I think 4039, too.
Ridership on the QM1/QM1A is aready going up and up and won't stop going up! This Morning, I saw #505 on the QM1 Wall St Express at 8:54 AM and it was PACKED with 35-40 People standing up. And #531 on QM1A to Midtown via 6 Ave at 8:58 and 25 people standing up. This route relly needs MORE BUSES to ease the standing load and at least this would solve the problem.
I can attest to what "Q46 Nova RTS#9288" is saying. I catch the QM1/QM1A Wall Street Express at Union Tpke & Parsons Blvd. I got to the stop at 8:15, came at 8:19, bus was packed and had to pass it up (it was a MCI Classic, but didn't get the number), the next bus came at about 8:25, again it was a MCI Classic #934. This bus was packed as well, but I got on and stood. There was about 10 people standing. Once we got the Frankfort and Pearl St. (First stop in Manhattan) it took about 2-3 minutes just to let about 4 people off. I think there should be more buses put on the QM1/QM1A in the morning or either put the Orion V's (CNG). Ultimately I think Queens Surface and the DOT are gonna have to invest in bigger buses like the D4500's at New York Bus Service because the Classics aren't big enough especially their aisles.
Tony
QM1A (Wall St. Express)- MCI Classic #934
Hey fellas, hopefully Thurston can address your concerns. You can e-mail him privately through this site. When you see the @ in his address you'll see what I mean.
Thanks for the suggestion!
Tony
First of all I'm just an employee of that company. I have an interest in what kind of service we provide, but don't have much to do with changing it. Also QSC just does what's it's told, as far as the routes & runs.
To get the most bang for your bucks I suggest you write NYCDOT at Battery Park Bldg., NY, NY 10004. You can call (718-445-3100) or even e-mail us (QSbus.com) or visit our Web site (www.qsbus.com), but you'll get the greatest impact by contacting nycDOT.
BTW, we do get asked by nycDOT & the Mayor's office what our customers think. I'm just suggesting you talk directly with the boss.
Mr rt__:^)
Mr. Thurston what does QS do with its retired busses, and ones which will be scrapped. If QS does hold auctions to get rid of them could you please inform me of there location and time.
D4500's or any 45 footer would definitely be an improvement with their increased passenger capacity. However, in regards to the aisle width I don't see much improvement since both buses are 102 inches wide.
Wayne
Maybe what you saw had to do with the slowdown that occurred at Queens Surface, Jamaica, and Triboro. I heard on the news that they still don't have a contract, and they staged a work slowdown this morning delaying buses.
[I heard on the news that they still don't have a contract, and they staged a work slowdown this morning delaying buses.]
The first part is correct, but the second is just a vicious rumor :-)
Actually what the NYC DOT should do is invest in purchasing artrics for some its busier lines(i:e Q60).
Well during off peak hours they have only 2 to 4 people. They are like a dollar van but they aren't a dollar.
Off Peak is about 15-20 People on QM1/AM1A. On weekends it's 10 People sometimes at the highest 25 People.
Is the Jamaica Depot serving the LIRR shuttle service from Rosedale to Locut Manor including Laurelton? I heard about it on Metro Traffic and Weather on the East End. I was just curious!
TThe LIRR shuttle is handled by LIBUS, out of Norman Levy depot.
Okay, thanks. I just thought since they were in Queens I figured that Jamaica and maybe QV would handle this. Just like the Jamaica to QV station.
What buses are they running on the SHUTTLE? Orion2's?
Usually Orion V CNGs. Ridership is heavy eastboud, but light westbound.
What radio frequencies are used for Suffolk Transit, LI Bus, Bee line Buses, DOT Buses in Queens and for that matter NYCT?.
I have some of them. But it would be nice to have them all. Sometimes at work I can listen in to the buses in case something happens.
There are a few located at http://www.qvdepot.com/buslinks.html.
Radio Shack sells though their stores and on there web site reginal guides Showing Scanner Feq. for Fire, Police, Transit, Weather, Avaiation, Millitary, Sceurity & Special Event Radio (110.00 MHZ - 900.00> MHZ) There about $12.00 and are updated yearly
I've read those books. They're good. But they don't say which frequencies are actually for the buses. And those I've listened to I haven't heard anything.
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Are these the units that replaced the Newark PCCs? Which station is that?
C
These are similar units that replaced the Newark PCCs. These photos were taking at various stations along the Hudson Bergen Light Rail line.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I still prefer to call it the "Hudson Light Rail Line" because it will NEVER, I repeat NEVER reach Bregen County. Especially after the latest talk by the McGreevey administration.
Otherwise, Trevor, they are great pictures!!
It's a bus!
It's a train!...........
You take those tonight, Trevor? Stop by and say hello next time!
Great pictures, Trevor, especially that first one! And they're nice cars to ride in. How successful has the HBLR been, in comparison to any bus service that ran before it?
In the mid 1990s one of the independent bus companies attempted to operate a route from west of the vicinity of the Liberty Science Center to the Hudson Mall, which is west of the West Side Av light rail terminal. It didn't make it through the year.
As for those photos, they say even an ugly woman looks good in the dark. Who knew Jersey City photographs that well at night??!!
Trevor, sometime in the earely to mid 1960s NYCT demonstrated a railbus which had rubber tires and flanged steel wheels. Whatever happened to that bus.
According to the TV report I recall seeing it ran on streets and coudl then go to a railroad track and extend the train wheels and run on rails.
There was a similar bus used by the Red Arrow Lines around that same time, which was tested on the P&W and Media/Sharon Hill trolley lines. The tests on the P&W weren't as successful as they were on the Media line, since the P&W is a high-level environment.
CT Transit's predecessor, the Connecticut Company, tested a fishbowl with both tires and steel wheels back in the late 1960's or during the 1970's. The original proposal was to use it on a freight rail line between downtown Hartford and Bloomfield, CT. I believe the rail union killed that idea. The bus was fleet #1712 and I believe it is retained somewhere in the area, possibly at the Branford Trolley Museum.
By the way, the later Hartford light rail plan was going to use the same rail right of way. Plans were to extend it as far north as Bradley Airport. Eventually, that plan died. Right now, there is some sort of rail plan moving forward between Hartford and New Britain, CT, but I don't know the exact status of that line.
Sid is correct; #1712, a General Motors New Look, is in a museum, stored indoors, but generally available for viewing. It is in the Fire Museum, adjacent to the Connecticut Electric Railway Museum in East Windsor, Connecticut.
To see a photo of this bus on the rails of the Branford Trolley Museum, and an opportunity to purchase a beautiful photo of this Railbus, as it was dubbed, in operation, see eBay item number 1076997443.
There isn't. They're looking to convert the old line between Hartford and New Britain into a busway. Personally, I don't see why ConnDOT can't (or won't) use diesel-powered light rail, like NJ Transit is doing between Trenton and Camden, or like the O-Train in Ottawa, Canada.
Now that would have been something. I wonder why the rail-bus didn't catch on.
A SEMTA/DDOT (Detroit, MI) 1984 Flxible Model 40102-6-1 "METRO A" finds a final resting ground in the Cheesequake Rest Stop on the Garden State Parkway, Advertising for Academy Tours' Atlantic City Services.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Is this some sort of diesel billboard ?
Was the trash in the bus also imported from Detroit ?
Bill "Newkirk"
I hate it when people treat Flxibes like garbage!
It is pretty sad, but we never much liked our Flxibles here. The unit shown in Trevor's photo is one from an order delivered in 1984. Some wonder if more Flxibles would have been purchased, but there was a six-year bus purchasing drought in suburban Detroit between 1984 and 1990 (due to capital funding being diverted to the PeopleMover.)
SEMTA's 16 one-door Flxible Metro As all spent their entire career at the Oakland division, and they were all retired the day they turned twelve. I remember riding #8408 on one of its final journeys and it was in pretty sad shape.
However, in about 1992, SMART (SEMTA's successor) acquired a dozen or so second-hand 1980 870 40096-6-1s from Grand Rapids. So for a short while in the mid 1990s, the Detroit area had damn close to 30 Flxibles!
Also, please note that these buses were used on the suburban SEMTA lines, never on the urban DDOT lines. This is listed incorrectly in the Flxible production log.
>>>...finds a final resting ground...<<<
I strongly doubt that it is a final resting ground. But, nice pictures none the less.
Peace,
ANDEE
Didn't Academy have a similar bus resting in the Intercept Lot on the Atlantic City Expressway? Or is this actualy the same bus?
I am sorry to say but that bus is dead. That bus has been sitting to advertise for Atlantic City for like 3 years. It has rotted, and for it to be in service again would not be worth it.
>>It has rotted, and for it to be in service again would not be worth it.<<
Looks pretty good for a rotting bus !! I assume it was towed there ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Hey Trevor,
Let's get this straight..... Academy Bus Line purchased this old SEMTA Metro just for use as a billboard ?
Could they have purchased a scrapped NJT Metro and maybe saved some money ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Underneath I meant is probably rotted. This bus is only there for advirtising use. They did some things to the bus, like took the air tanks for air brakes probably out, so that it wouldn't be all low to the ground. The bus also has something attached to it below so that no one attempts to tow the bus away for their own uses. I believe the shocks are off, thats why the bus is probably so high, or if they were doing mechanical work, they probably purposely made it higher.
Another reason why that bus would never see service again and as well as purchasing old ones is because RTS's overule the fleet. They are very much into the RTS design. When the Flxible was around they had a couple of their own in addition to having the NJT units. They were used for Newark Airport uses, but once Flxible went out of business they scrapped every single Academy owned Flxible they had. Maybe recieving parts were an issue, I do not know. But as of now, they are really into the RTS.
Academy still does has Flxibles in the fleet, but those are the 1989 Metro-B's from NJ Transit.
That's the first time I have ever seen a Flxible in Academy lettering. She may be an old bus, but she is not trash.
[That's the first time I have ever seen a Flxible in Academy lettering.]
Academy had a number of NJ Flxibles (ex-NYCTA/MABSTOA) in its colors, mostly on the #22 route out of Hoboken. They were replaced by the 1998-2000 RTS's. There were also a few 3000 series Flxibles; perhaps, these are still around.
I would imagine, though, that most of the NJT-owned units operated by Academy are in NJT colors and used on the Hudson County contract lines (1, 88, 123, and 125).
As for 3275, 3278-3280 can be found floating between Willow/Clinton Line and the Port Authority Line.
The Metro-B's in the Academy scheme are still around. Units #3275, 3278-3280. 3275 is in the scheme that the 1000 series Novas are. 3278-3280 are in the old scheme. I guess NJT doesn't have no use for them, thats why they are keeping them until replacement.
The original use for 3275 was for the Sayreville Contract to Wall Street originally operated by Blue & Grey Transit. That bus did that line in case of the wheel chair lift was needed since the MC-9A and B's didn't feature them. 3278 and 3279 were assigned for Academy Lines in general for any of the shore lines for when they needed the wheel chair lift. As for 3280 its original contract was for Asbury Park Transit in case of a wheel chair lift being needed. There was not much need, so instead of letting them sit, they sent them to 22 Hillside Corp, and whenever they were needed for Jersey Shore service they just went. 3275 didn't enter service with Academy until 1999 when Academy took over that Sayreville Contract from Blue & Grey Transit.
That's interesting. I knew NJT and a few other NJ carriers gave the ex NYCT Flxibles a new lease on life, but I never saw one in Academy colors. Most Academy buses I saw were MCI's and Prevosts. Live and learn.
Today on every bus or station i was at there was a bulletin that mentioned a public hearing on March 6th that will hold the fate of the B18,40 and 78 routes.The hearing will be about combining the B13 and 18 routes to be just the B13 and serve Brunswick.The B40 and B78 would be combined to become.....THE B47!!!it would start at the Williamsburg Bridge Plaza Term. and end at Kings Plaza like the B46 does but it would first follow part of the current B40 route to Ralph Ave then go the rest of the way on Ralph to Kings Plz.I dunno how many of you missed the B47,i do even though i never been on it before,but now if this gets approved,we can throw a party and put up a sign that says "WELCOME BACK B47!" lol
This is not the original B47
If you need the routes ,,let me know,,
Steve
I know that but still,its cool to see the return of the B47 even though it wont be running exactly like it did before
From what I heard, the proposed B-47 is not supposed to start at Bridge Plaza. It is supposed to start at Woodhull Hospital, by Flushing Ave and Broadway. People were talking about how the only surface route between there and the bridge will be the B-46. Does anybody know if they will send more B-46's to the bridge to make up for it? I know that many B-46's short turn at DeKalb Ave.
From what i read on the bulletin,thats what it said,start at Bridge Plaza.so what you heard was totally incorrect
this does suck... but as far as short 46's going to the bridge??? possible- not likely maybe with outcry- so get your gloves, cocoa and signs and meet at 347 madison ave. althouhj the reality is that the b40 runs like crap i've waited for it a few times and my god i walked from myrtle to marcy B4 when i got to hewes like 3 46's came still no 40. also most all the LTD buses go to the bridge its inconceivable to extend the nightmare 46 local any further than dekalb. wish there was
a LTD stop at lafayette/ Malcom X though.
The "totally incorrect" info I heard was actually from the OFFICIAL MTA WEBSITE. For the convenience of all, I will post the link to the "totally incorrect" info from the OFFICIAL MTA WEBSITE:
Link To B-47 Info
Now, mr. 5301, if I may interject an opinion for a brief second. Please remember this as you go forward in life, as others attempt to guide you along the road in such a troubled environment. DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ.
I thank you for your time. And happy riding.
If that's the case, then Q Train-S 79 Bus should not believe everything HE READS! And if that's the case, none of us should believe ANYTHING we read! However, instead of flat out saying that what I heard was "totally incorrect", Q Train-S 79 bus should have said something to the effect of "I believe what you heard was wrong", which sounds more courteous than the arrogance that was displayed.
In any case which is correct? The info straight from the MTA Website, or the "bulletins" posted in a bodega somewhere?
Nope!! You're wrong. The new B47 is supposed to run from Woodhull Hospital to Kings Plz. It will be similar to the B46 bus.
I came into the city over the weekend to dance tango and ride the transit system, particularly the buses. I finished all the north south routes and am now working on the east-west routes. (I've already covered most of the crosstown routes.)
I noticed that the M42 goes to both the Javits Center and the Circle Line Pier with the SAME route number from the UN. Yet the 34 Street Xtown has two route numbers (M16 and M34) going to four separate destinations (Waterside Mall, PA TERM, E 36th Street, Javits Center). The 49th/50th Street Xtown has two route numbers (M50 and M27) going to two different destinations (PA TERM and Circle Line Pier) from the UN.
I can see the 34th street Xtown having two route numbers because the destinations are different at both ends. I don't understand why the 49th/50th street Xtown has two different route numbers when only one destination is different (PA Terminal vs. Circle Line Pier.) Does anybody know why?
Michael
Because the M27-M50 divergence point is as far east as Broadway while the two M42's run together all the way to 11th Avenue.
Before the great renumbering of the 80's, there were two branches of the M27 and two branches of the M16. There was only one branch of the M106; IIRC, the switch to the M42 was timed for the opening of the Javits Center.
I am frankly tired of seeing RTS's on the B24 and the whole Fresh Pond Depot Fleet! Can anyone provide some insight on whats going on with any new buses in that depot?
- R62's Rock
i feel your pain fresh pond has some of the worst damned buses on the earth- save maybe flatbush? no not really they have great 5000s (5080-5124) ok so back to fresh pond. nope no relief in sight for the buses or the runs such as on the damned B38. there was discussioin of artics- but i hear they'd never fir down the samll streets of ridgewood. the irony is that 1. artics have a tighter turner radius though being a little wider and @. if B/O's Pull in and out properly atleast on the 38 there is never any reason to be on the side streets of ridgewood and if they're in the way.... 60' bus vs 14' Mazda or even 20' excursion.... My money is with metrocard
I definitely agree with both of you. Fresh Pond has the worst fleet in the Brooklyn Division. I love their 9100's, but their fleet doesn't change. When they do get more buses, its always garbage (the 3997 should burn in hell). Ridgewood residents have to suffer with the same old crap every single time. I'm am so sick and tired of the 4600's and 4700's, thats all you see around here, I hate them all. Thank God I can look forward to the new R143 Subway cars, they're a gift for the FP riders.
Artics would fail miserably, because Ridgewood has the smallest streets out of all the Queens neighborhoods. There is absolutely no large street in Ridgewood, and Metropolitan Av. doesn't count because its part of Maspeth. Artics can't even get in and out of FP depot because of that tight area under the train station. An artic would easily get stuck in any Ridgewood street, trust me I lived here most of my life. Plus FP doesn't even have the lifts to hold Artics. NYCT will not even spend a dime to help out FP.
Don't get me wrong, I love RTS's, but only 1990 and newer.
I hate nearly all the RTS's older than 1990, especially the ones in FP. Lets hope FP gets more Novas when the Orion7 comes in.
2/19/02
B13- RTS Nova #9584
-
Will the drought at Fresh Pond ever end? 3 years, 1month and still going.
-Jay
OK, here we go again. Now let's get real. I am no longer a bus operator in Jamaica depot. All though I made no anouncements on bustalk, I was promoted to dispatcher several months ago and am currently working in Brooklyn, dealing with all the depots except Jackie Gleason. I monitor Fresh Pond lines, ENY, Flatbush and Ulmer Park. If any depot in Brooklyn needs new buses, it is Ulmer Park by a long shot. I have already recommended to upper management that U.P. should be the next depot to get new buses, despite my recommendations as a dispatcher probably won't go very far. Currently, the newest local buses U.P. has are the 1996 RTS, and not many of them at that.
I monitor the B3 on Sundays and these poor people (operators and passengers alike) are dealing with 7500's like it's not going out of style. Oh, and by the way, guess what. They are dealing with 4700 and 4800's also. On Sunday, if you want a new bus, be prepared to stand up and be cramped. Because the Nova coach you are getting on doesn't have enough seats to accomodate all the people going shopping at Kings Plaza. Standing up can be a challenge on the coaches when they have 50 or 60 people on them. Don't believe me? Come out and ride one yourself on Sunday going to Kings Plaza. If you want a seat, well, you will just have to deal with a 7500 that was built in 1981 or 1982 or a 4700 or 4800.
Fresh Pond on the other hand at least has the newest Novas to offer the people. Yes, they do have the most 4700 & 4800's in the system (don't get me started with what Jamaica and QV has) but at least F.P. doesn't have to send out buses that were built in 1981 and 1982 on the weekends.
So for all you guys who are crying how tired you are of seeing the pre-1990 RTS's in F.P., I would suggest you either move away or get used to seeing them and learn to like it because they are going no place any time soon, nor should they, and I hope U.P. will be the next depot to get new buses because it is one depot that deserves it, along with everybody who has to ride the B6 line, which probably runs the oldest average buses on the line in the entire city of New York!
BIG AL
So that explains why you did not answer my question bout the LIRR shuttle bus service I posted. Sorry about that. Well, congradulations on your promotion though and good luck with it.
Thank you. Being a dispatcher is quite different from being a bus operator. You have to do the job to really understand the whole picture as to what kind of bus service you are actually dealing with. I was never aware of how bad the dilemma was with Ulmer Park until I started monitoring and booking their buses, especially on the weekends. As I said, in Brooklyn, U.P. needs to receive newer equipment for their local routes first. Unfortunately, they were short handed because all their express buses are now MCI, which raises their avg. bus age in their fleet to as new as anybody else, except S.E. Queens. But, with the exception of the few 1996 local RTS's Ulmer Park has, ALL their other local buses are pre-1990. No other depot in the city, not even Jam.& QV. or FRESH POND can stake that claim! The 4700 & 4800 in Fresh Pond from what I see are in very good condition, alot better than the pre-1990's at U.P. I know there are some dogs in the F.P.TMC fleet, but every depot has their share of animals. Do I think F.P. needs newer buses? Yes. But only after U.P., Jamaica and Q.V. get some first.
BIG AL
Give me a 10-year-old TMC RTS over any bus in the fleet.
thank you AL.I have complained and complained for who knows how long about the 9200's and 9300's express coach at UP(i live near the B1)-hope UP does get the 8500's from JG once the Orion VII comes in htis summer.
4777-b1
I ride the B6 often and its a damn shame!!!!!!! Nothing but remans and 47/4800s. You know its bad when you're excited that a 9000/9100 comes to pick you up. At least the B3 gets Nova coaches. The B6 doesnt even see those buses!!!(which btw, brings up another topic I wont touch......)
BTW, BIG AL: If I havent told you the day we met, then congrats on your promotion.......
Sigh........:(
-R62's Rock!
Beginning 2/25/02-the X27,X28 and X29 are returning to their normal route (via Church street northbound-via Broadway southbound)-Thank goodness!! The reroute via Houston Street was nuts. Im going to try to take the trip on a pm X29 route from 5th Av-41st Street-home. Will post my results when i make the trip.
Here is something to take note of:
At 8.02 p.m. on February 20th this year it will be an historic moment in
time. It will not be marked by the chiming of any clocks or the ringing
of bells, but at that precise time, on that specific date, something will
happen which has not occurred for 1,001 years and will never happen
again. As the clock ticks over from 8.01 p.m. on Wednesday, February
20th, time will, for sixty seconds only, read in perfect symmetry 2002,
2002, 2002, or to be more precise:
20:02, 20/02, 2002.
The last occasion that time read in such a symmetrical pattern was long
before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock - at 10.01
a.m. on January 10, 1001. And because the clock only goes up to 23.59, it
is something that will never happen again.
Actually, it'll happen again in 2112:
21:12, 21/12, 2112. (9:12 PM, 21 December, 2112).
C
I found that after posting. I don't think anyone here will be around to experience it though.
Well, if I live to be 131 years old . . .
;-)
C
Here's something that totally baffles me. Two of our E450 diesels went away for repair recently. 752 had major electrical problems while 798 needed a new driver door. The story behind that is interesting. I had just opened the door one morning and I was getting in when the guy in the bus next to me FLOORED it. Like, why would he even do that within yard limits? My hand and the door nearly came off. So anyway, we got 752 back in two days. 798 is still away waiting for that door. It has been about four weeks now.
So after nearly losing my hand, I learned not to park alongside the other buses. I park at the very end, which means I have a long walk to the office, but the peace of mind is worth it.
Yikes! He actually hit the door? That's pretty amazing (from my point of view, anyway . . . you're probably not so amused since it was your assigned bus!). I'm glad to hear your hand is still attached, though. :) Did the bus that struck the door sustain any damage (broken headlights, whatever)?
Thanks for posting.
C
The paint on the right side is probably scratched up, but otherwise, the other bus sustained no damage. On these buses, you can't get into the driver seat from the coach because the floor is high and the driver seat is mounted too far forward. Only on 180, 535 and 808 I can do that.
About a year ago, a similar occurance happened up at the Port Authority up in Pgh at the Collier Division. One of the small transit vehicles (STV) ripped the boarding doors off another. A few weeks earlier, an '86 Neoplan AN440 which was up for retirement soon, supposedly had a jammed accelerator comming off the row and crashed through a closed garage door. Needless to say, it got an earlier retirement than was planned unfortunantly.
A few of the operators I know up at Ross division had some close calls while parking their buses on the lanes. It seems that some garage attendants that are in a hurry to run the buses through the washrack and get them set for the next morning are racing coaches through the garage at speeds up to 25-30 mph, when the speed limit is never to exceed 5 mph. The guys I talked to came close to getting hit. This situation was brought to the attention of the union board man at Ross and the Maintance foreman. I haven't heard any complaints as of late regarding this.
Garage safety often isn't a top priority at many systems, but at least in the case of PAT, a good percentage of equipment damage occurs at the garage. Buses that aren't properly secured and roll into other bus or fixed objects. About two years ago at Ross, a fueler who was standing in a place he wasn't supposed to be, was hit by an in-service coach with people on board at the garage. The operator was told to make his own bus change at the garage due to a mechanical problem with the vehicle. The man who was weeks away from retirement was killed (flew into the back of a bus parked on the B/O line.) The operator who was new at the time originally lost his job, but I believe after the investigation he was cleared of wrong doing and was given his job back. It was a terribly tragic incident, but it made everyone remember (atleast for a short while) that you must not let down your guard when you enter the garage.
Today it was GBL Orion 5527 seen northbound on Route 112. This is the first Orion that I have ever seen with a orange destination sign. Very cool. I wonder if the driver knew that he only had brakelights on the left side only. Love the three LED high mount brake lights.
[This is the first Orion that I have ever seen with a orange destination sign.]
I believe all of the Green Bus Lines 5500 series Orions got new destination signs within the past few months. I hope they work better and last longer than the signs they replaced.
That may be true but this really was the first time I've ever seen it. I don't go into the city much so that why I come to nycsubway.org to find out about all the new equipment.
Today I had a chance to talk with New York City Transit's On-Site New Flyer Technician.
Here is the latest news from the Flyer Front:
1) The Holland Designed & Built D45SHF "Viking" Intercity Transit Vehicle is NO LONGER in production in the US Market. Houston, TX and the MTA have and will ONLY have the only known US operated D45SHF coaches. (New Picture Below)
2) The D40i "Invero" Low Floor is NOW in production with orders from Long Beach, CA; Millwaukee; Houston, TX; and two Canadian Properties (I forgot the two).
3) Confirmation that the next 260 New Flyer D60HF "Galaxy" Articulated buses will commence delievery in or around September of 2002 at a rate of 20 buses per month.
(There is desktop wallpaper size available of this photo for you computer, I also have a Quick Time Movie available of this bus)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Interesting news, Trevor. Thanks for the update. Regarding the articulated order, which depots will be the recipients of the new buses? Is it still 126, MJQ & KB or has that changed? Is NYCT planning on keeping the "Vikings" or will they be returned to New Flyer? Has NYCT expressed any interest in the Invero? Thanks in advance for you responses.
The is no known interest of the Invero for the MTA. The Vikings are TA's permenantly and aren't going anywhere!
Depots for the New Artics are supposed to be 100th, MJQ, KB and MAYBE 126th.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I find it interesting that NYCT would only order 3 of one type of bus as they have done with the D45S "Viking". What was the reasoning behind this and is it the first time that they have ordered such a small quantity? I see the buses everyday in the course of driving the M31 across 57th Street. Initially I thought they were ugly but the more I see them the more I've grown to like them.
Well these were demo units, the DOB GM found out there was three buses not in use that the TA purchased and furious due to the fact of the TA bus shortage. This is the ONLY reason the bus is even on the road! If it wasn't for that, they'd still be in Lodi!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
2) The D40i "Invero" Low Floor is NOW in production with orders from Long Beach, CA; Millwaukee; Houston, TX; and two Canadian Properties (I forgot the two).
St. Catharine's (6) and London (22) - which are both systems in Ontario - are the two Canadian systems which will get the Invero. According to Andre Kristopans' New Flyer Delivery List web site, the St. Catharine's order should be on that property soon, while the London order could arrive there later this spring (assuming New Flyer is delivering the buses in serial number order). I don't believe the rest of the Inveros have been given delivery dates yet.
I'm basing my guess on the London order on the fact that SEPTA will be getting it's second batch of New Flyer D40LFs (5501-5600) possibly staring as early as next month. The London order follows the second SEPTA order in the serial sequence.
Rumors from my friend at Long Beach Transit that they are working on getting the Invetro as well as Artic versions.
BTW the New Flyer logo is identical to that used by parent company Den Ousden in Holland.
Blue
Have you seen these?
Wayne's World: http://www.100megsfree3.com/dwanedoe/one.html
http://www.100megsfree3.com/dwanedoe/two.html
Now you've done it. Gone & told management :-(
Mr rt
Well, it isn't like it was a secret or anything. If management isn't smart enough to know how to use an internet search engine looking for depot websites, maybe they shouldn't be management..
;-)
That's been said about some of them before, particularly those that reside on the 13th floor at 370 Jay Street < G >
Our Personal/Labor Relations Department (one person) was very pleased when I showed her the site.
One thing I learned a long time ago, when I first went into management, is that there is two sides to the story. So, no matter which side you're on, you should hear both sides to better make a informed decision about the topic in question.
BTW, neither side wants you to question what they are saying.
Mr rt__:^)
I've always heard there are 3 sides to a story.
1) Management,
2) Union
3) the Truth.
That is generaly correct, but you will have a hard time getting either side to admit it.
Mr rt__:-(
I like to think of myself as a good citizen and not a fare beater, so I will submit my fare dispute to the impartial community of Bus Talk. The dollar value is de minimis, but I thought I was right. Put on your black robes. Here are the facts.
Today I got into a fare dispute with a B/O on our local bus line. I boarded with an MTA pass and asked for a 5¢ local transfer. The B/O said he was not authorized to issue a transfer unless I paid a 30¢ cash fare. I said I had always gotten a transfer before, and I had already dropped my nickel in the fare box, so the operator gave me a transfer and told me the transfer policy was on a sign partway back in the bus.
I read the sign and it said:
"NTS transfers issued only upon payment of the local fare." (NTS is the local bus line)
Here are other pertinent facts. The NTS cash fare (disabled) is 30¢. The NTS (local) transfer costs 5¢, an NTS (interagency) transfer costs 25¢
Elsewhere, NTS policy is stated as follows:
"MTA passes accepted on ROUTE 4 ONLY. Interagency transfers accepted at transfer points."
"MTA TOKENS-Accepted on all Norwalk Transit buses for one full fare. Transfers additional." (MTA tokens are sold 10 for $9.00, the full cash fare on NTS is 60¢.)
I had been traveling on MTA buses using my MTA pass. The final bus I must take to get home is an NTS Route 3. To get to route 3, I catch a bus where both NTS Route 4 and MTA Route 121 run. An MTA interagency transfer costs 10¢, so I usually take the first bus to come along and get either a 5¢ or 10¢ transfer. I do prefer the NTS bus, not to save 5¢, but because it is a Gillig Advantage LF, and the MTA bus is a high floor bus.
The differing interpretation is whether boarding the Route 4 bus with an MTA pass is "payment of the local fare." I think it is because the NTS tariff specifically allows me to ride on Route 4 with my pass. It does not restrict me to using the pass only at transfer points. Every time I board with the pass it is recorded by the B/O so I assume NTS receives some revenue from MTA from the use of the pass. My interpretation of "NTS transfers issued only upon payment of the local fare" is that I cannot chain transfers, boarding with a transfer and getting another transfer.
Am I right or wrong?
Tom
..
Years ago the MTA wasn't willing to work with CT transit, i.e. it wouldn't let THEM sell MetroCards. The "privates" initially had the same problem with the MTA. For several years QSC sold MCs that basically replaced our "tickets", then the "Travel Card" that replaced it. We gave it up as most of our customers found other places to purchase MCs. The preceeding is ment only to illustrate that the "one card" policy doesn't always work seemlessly.
Your dipping of a Senior discount card is counted as a "fare" paid, so the amount of the fare doesn't matter. I assume the part you forgot to mention is that your MC doesn't work in the Norwalk bus ? Otherwise you could use a Transfer on the MC.
In NYC the "policy" is that a paper Transfer is only to be issued for a cash fare, but many customers ask for and are given same. LI Bus has a similar fee charged for a paper Transfer, so the cutomer is better off with a Transfer on the value MC, or a unlimited MC, i.e. no additional cost.
BTW, we get ZERO when a customer takes advantage of their on MC Transfer (from another bus or subway), but they are counted as a customer (except Express customers who pay a "Step Up" fare of $1.50.
Mr rt__:^)
There are exceptions to double-transfers. There are certain 'three-leg-trips' that are governed by NYCTA regulations. There are certain lines that are afforded double transfers. One that comes to mind is the Q-79 Little Neck Parkway. A subway customer who transfers to the Q-46, Q-43, or Q-36 is entitled to a second transfer for the Q-79 but ONLY at Little Neck Parkway (to avoid those asking and obtaining a second transfer to use earlier along the route).
This applies to all metrocards (Senior/Disabled etc).
That is absolutely correct, but I still don't understand with all the "unlimited" use why they bother themselves with these exceptions/restrictions.
Mr rt__:^)
>>> I assume the part you forgot to mention is that your MC doesn't work in the Norwalk bus ? <<<
LAMTA passes are sight only. They are not swiped in the fare box. The NTS B/O has some kind of a recording device where he pushes a button for anyone boarding with a paper transfer and another button for those with passes, and possibly those paying with cash to determine the number of regular, senior and youth fares. There is a shared debit card that several of the companies use (but not the MTA), but I believe the B/O has to enter a code to determine each time how much is used, since the same card is used for regular and senior fares and purchasing transfers.
BTW, the MTA paper transfers have an area to be punched marked "sold on pass". I assume that is to prevent a person with a pass buying a transfer and reselling it on the street.
Tom
I gather you're in the Los Angeles area where I am minimally familiar with the various bus systems, so I have no way of knowing whether you were invalidly charged 30 cents.
However, I can tell you that here in the NY City-Long Island area, the Metrocard is a universal media accepted on NYC Transit, all NYC DOT private bus carriers, and Long Island Bus. The driver never handles the card or the paper transfers issued when a cash fare is paid. The fare box dip reader determines Metrocard or transfer validity. Sounds like the LA area bus operators need something similar - but would be a monumental task to implement.
>>> Sounds like the LA area bus operators need something similar - but would be a monumental task to implement. <<<
Some of the smaller companies have more automated fare collection, particularly Omnitrans in San Bernardino, but the 800 lb. gorilla, the LAMTA is strictly visual passes, cash or tokens (they do not have a one day tourist pass) and hand punched paper transfers. Very few of the smaller operators will accept the LAMTA pass.
Tom
Yesterday at about 8:45AM I passed NYPD Highway District 3 on the GCP. In their yard was an RTS ---ALL WHITE---- probably being prepped for a new paint job into NYPD livery.
I guess that ex-TCC 743 - a fishbowl is gone for good.
Hart Bus :(
We were travelling in opposite directions. I'll bet you saw me..
:-)
Yeah, that really is a shame. The same thing happened with the police buses at MSBA. 1973 GM #117 (one of the coaches, renumbered #9117) disappeared one day without warning also. Guaranteed that bus saw no use by the NCPD. Flxible Metros #1001 and #1003 met with the same fate.
I think I saw (9)117 in a TV piece when it was used to help evacuate the resident of a nursing home (Parkview, I think) that is on the corner of Merrick Road and Udall Road across from Marjorie Post Park when there was a fire there about 12 - 18 months ago. Check back in the threads----I think I raised the question and someone who lived nearby answered it.
I know this is off topic but please dont delete it. It is for a school project. I created this poll to get peoples opinions on whether or not the WTC should be rebuilt. And I figured who better to ask then New Yorkers. The poll is below. Please take the time to choose an answer.
Thanks,
Ryan
WTC
What should be done with the WTC land once it is cleaned up.
It should be rebuilt the same as it was
It should be just a memorial
It should have smaller buildings
It should be a memorial and a complex
It should be a park and a memorial
Current Results
When? Where? Which Routes? and Why if the FPDepot already is sort of Nearby?
Two Buses Headed for Federal Triangle Evacuated
(Washington) -- Two Metro buses were evacuated on 16th Street in Northwest Wednesdsay morning after an unfounded bomb threat.
Metro spokeswoman Taryn McNeil says the first bus, carrying 50 people was evacuated around at 6:04 a.m. after Metropolitan Police Department officials called Metro to say they received a call claiming their was a bomb on an S-2 bus headed to Federal Triangle. The second bus, with 40 people was evacuated at 6:15 a.m. McNeil says that bus was also an S-2 bus headed to Federal Triangle.
McNeil says nothing was found on either bus and the scene was cleared around 6:40 a.m. Traffic in and around 16th Street had to be diverted while a check was made of each bus. causing really bad traffic according to WTOP although they reported it as an accident at least until I left the house
Rough day on the street today:
Dow Jones down 106.49 or 1.07%
Nasdaq down 59.33 or 3.34%
S&P 500 down 17 & change or 1.55%
Transit Related Stocks:
Cummins Engines up 1.48 to 39.66
Kawasaki Heavy Industry UNCH to 3.40
DiamlerChrysler (owns MCI and Orion) up .58 to 37.53
DiamlerChrysler owns MCI? That's a new one...
See the DiamlerChrysler commercial... it features a MCI bus in the background. Also features freightliner, which currently owns Orion
DCX does own Freightliner, and subsidiary Orion, but not MCI. MCI is a product of MCII, the parent company of which is the former Greyhound Corporation (which divested itself from Greyhound Lines (GLI), now owned by Laidlaw, in the late '80s). They changed their name in the early '90s to some modish high-tech-sounding synthetic moniker, which I can't recall off the top of my head. Their website may have more details.
C
There's a bunch of Bus yards in JFK Airport and I saw some today.
1st Yard I saw was a Yard before going into the Airport Terminals. It had Avis 35 Foot GM RTS's and 40 Foot Gillig Low Floors. And so as Hertz 40 Foot Gillig Low Floors.
2nd Yard I saw was the JFK Shuttle Yard. It had New Flyer D40LF's in 2 diffent paint jobs,Some SOLO's,and I saw a Cutaway leaveing the yard.
And the 3 Yard I saw was for American Airlines. I only saw verry FEW Buses in there. I only saw a bunch of Cutaways and 2 Eldorados with rust on them(YUCK!).
Yep-it happened. I GOT A LOCAL!!! #4777-run 008 is a local on the b1 this morning. No problem with the crowds at all. my hope is that when the Orion VII arrive at JG, the 8500's go to Ulmer Park. Will this happen?
I saw a FEW Airport Buses today.
I saw a FEW New Flyer D40LF's in Yellow Paint Job,maybe 1 in RED Paint Job. And also saw a SOLO with a BLUE Stripe. And I saw a Untied Airlines Neoplan AN440 Low Floor(1st time seeing those) and they look NICE! And I also saw a American Airlines Gillig Phantom that looks VERRY RUSTLY(Yuck!!!). I also saw Budget Junkbirds.
[I saw a FEW New Flyer D40LF's in Yellow Paint Job,maybe 1 in RED Paint Job]
My recollection is that the New Flyer D40LF's in the blue and yellow paint scheme serve the long term parking lot and the Howard Beach subway station. The D40LF's in the blue and red paint scheme circulate around all of the airline terminals. In both cases, no fare is charged. I am less sure of this, but think the Solo buses serve as parking garage shuttles (or, perhaps, employee shuttles).
Those are not Champion SOLOs, Those are the Spartan Motor Coach Buses, I forgot the exact model though!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Do anybody know what are the odds to getting a Orion2 on the JFK Flyer? I rode the JFK Flyer 2 Times and keep getting Diesel Orion5's and I rode it at 9:32 AM and 8:06 AM. Is it have to do with the time or what the driver picks in the depot?
Slim to None! The JFK use to have the Gillig Phantoms and the Thomas MVP Transliner buses on them, Now its ALL Orion ALL the Time!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Thanks! Would I have better chances to get one on the Nassau Hub Shuttle?
There is ONLY 1 in service, and that bus barely runs as they have severe issues, Seeing a Orion 02.501 in Service for LI Bus is as rare as finding a Gillig in Daily Service......
Sorry!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Thanks. What problems do LI Bus haveing with that Oiron2?
Orion 2s usually will only be found during the weekday rush hours.The normal assignment for the run would be a older CNG or diesal Orion V. The best chance to see a 300 series Orion would be on a weekdend when most flyer runs are straight pieces (usually a 10 hour run with no break at the airport and an hour long layover in hempstead) paired with regular runs(N54or N6)
But we're not discussing the late 200 and 300 Series Orion 05.501 (V), we are talking about the VERY seldom used Orion 02.501 (II) Low Floor buses in the 700 Series (700, 701-706) of which of the total 5 on the property only one sees VERY limited Service!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Come on down to DC . . . we've got 41 of them!
:)
C
A few yrs back I managed to get an Orion II on the N2 on a Sat no less.
Today, for the first time in a very long while, I took a ride on SEPTA's suburban division in the western suburbs. It was a interesting ride consisting of New Flyers, those THINGS in the 2000 series (I will not justify calling them a bus), Eldorados, as well as the ABB and Kawasaki trolley cars.
My first bus was 5406 on the 104 to West Chester. Either the bus was late, or he was a pull-out on the way to do the 119, this bus picked up passengers, and took us to West Chester and he made the run in about 45 minutes, mostly non-stop.
The next bus was that thing (2039) with a busted destination sign. The driver had to shout out the route to anyone who asked. As usual on those cheap-assed pieces of shit, I felt every bump on the trip to Exton Square Mall.
After my lunch break, I hopped on the 133, an Eldorado. Now I have a question, The difference in seating between that POS and an Eldorado is about 2 or 3 seats, why can't SEPTA dump those crappy cutaways, and replace them with more Eldorados?
At K of P, I got 3200, the only NEOPLAN AN440 with the Orange Twin-Vision sign, rode that to Norristown Transit Center. Got on the 100, an ABB N-5 car in a 2 car train. At 69th st, took a short, round trip on the 101/102 trolleys. Two things I noticed, one is the fact that despite repeated warnings, teen STILL use the trolley tracks as a shortcut. I wonder how many kids were killed by trolleys over the many years, and STILL they don't listen. The other thing, is the 101 going to 69th st was crowded. The reverse commute on this line has grown quite quickly.
At 69th st, I saw 5401. It didn't look like the prototype I saw a long while ago, but looked like the rest of the Flyers. No trim, or the original Twin Vision LED sign, jut the orange sign like all the other Flyers. Apparently SEPTA returned the prototype, and got 5401 as part of the production order.
Another observation was at Exton Square Mall, Krapf`s Transit still is using used buses. This time I saw a RTS. Krapf's used all types of used buses, mostly RTS's. The only time I saw new buses used by Krapf's was the Thomas Buses (9812,9813). I wonder where they are.
After a quick ride on the MF el to 13th st, I jumped on a NJT Flxible to the Supermarket, then home on the 403.
Another question, where are the 1262 to 1267 RTS's on NJT. I saw them on the weekend, but I didn`t see them in action this week. Maybe my limited time in NJ during the week enabled them to be unseen.
Tommorow, I`ll ride NJT and SEPTA Bucks County Routes. I might see them on NJT routes tommorow.
My first bus was 5406 on the 104 to West Chester. Either the bus was late, or he was a pull-out on the way to do the 119, this bus picked up passengers, and took us to West Chester and he made the run in about 45 minutes, mostly non-stop.
[What time was your trip? The only 104 trips that run as 119 pull-out are the 5:40am, 11:30am, 12:20pm, and 1:20pm departures from 69 St Terminal. Usually, those buses see Neoplans, since I've never seen a Flyer and rarely - if ever - see a NABI on the 119.]
The next bus was that thing (2039) with a busted destination sign. The driver had to shout out the route to anyone who asked. As usual on those cheap-assed pieces of shit, I felt every bump on the trip to Exton Square Mall.
[There's a shock. You should see some of the "buses" (and I use that term loosely) operating on the 204 and 208. The signs don't work on those buses either.]
After my lunch break, I hopped on the 133, an Eldorado. Now I have a question, The difference in seating between that POS and an Eldorado is about 2 or 3 seats, why can't SEPTA dump those crappy cutaways, and replace them with more Eldorados?
[The latest rumor I hear from SEPTA is that they're planning to buy 27 ft cutaway buses on either an International or Freighliner chasis, a la Ride On in Montgomery County, Md. I'd rather see those 25 ft Chance RT-52s instead of more cutaways. The ElDorados seat 26, while the vans seat only 20, but the vans cannot take standees.]
At K of P, I got 3200, the only NEOPLAN AN440 with the Orange Twin-Vision sign, rode that to Norristown Transit Center. Got on the 100, an ABB N-5 car in a 2 car train. At 69th st, took a short, round trip on the 101/102 trolleys. Two things I noticed, one is the fact that despite repeated warnings, teen STILL use the trolley tracks as a shortcut. I wonder how many kids were killed by trolleys over the many years, and STILL they don't listen. The other thing, is the 101 going to 69th st was crowded. The reverse commute on this line has grown quite quickly.
[It would be nice if, in the near future, SEPTA and/or PennDOT installed crossing gates at some of the intersections (particularly along Garrett Rd between Fairfield and Shadeland Av; Aronomink, Springfield Rd, Leamy Av, Woodland Av on the Media line, and at Baltimore Pk and MacDade Blvd on the Sharon Hill line). The long wait for the trolleys to cross Lansdowne Av slows the travel time dramatically. As for the volume, the 101 serves Springfield Mall, so that's probably where a lot of reverse commuting occurs. Also, the 101/102 serve Archbishop Prendegast and Monsignior Bonner High Schools, which account for some very heavy ridership on the 101, 102, and 115 before and after school. (On a side note, the 115 is the only Red Arrow route which uses school trippers, operating from Lansdowne and Garrett to Folcroft.)]
At 69th st, I saw 5401. It didn't look like the prototype I saw a long while ago, but looked like the rest of the Flyers. No trim, or the original Twin Vision LED sign, jut the orange sign like all the other Flyers. Apparently SEPTA returned the prototype, and got 5401 as part of the production order.
[That's the same prototype bus, but the modifications were made to match the rest of the fleet. 5401 only just returned to SEPTA within the past few weeks (I had that bus today on the 6:02pm 104 to West Chester).]
Another observation was at Exton Square Mall, Krapf`s Transit still is using used buses. This time I saw a RTS. Krapf's used all types of used buses, mostly RTS's. The only time I saw new buses used by Krapf's was the Thomas Buses (9812,9813). I wonder where they are.
[Krapf's only has one RTS - 7901, which was a test bus for the Methanol engine. The Thomas buses are 9810 and 9811. Yesterday, I saw Krapf's use an older MCI 102A3 from one of it's other companies - Macronis of Reading - on that Coatesville to West Chester run. They've been known in the past to use flat front school buses or Blue Birds if they're really short on buses. I avoid taking their buses unless it's a dire emergency, since their service is pitiful.]
After a quick ride on the MF el to 13th st, I jumped on a NJT Flxible to the Supermarket, then home on the 403.
Another question, where are the 1262 to 1267 RTS's on NJT. I saw them on the weekend, but I didn`t see them in action this week. Maybe my limited time in NJ during the week enabled them to be unseen.
[It's possible that 1262-1267 were operating on the routes out of Newton Avenue which don't serve Philadelphia (450, 451, 452, 453, 454, and 457).]
Here's my response to CTRABS74 comments:
The trip I was on left 69th st at 11:30 am. In fact 2 buses left 69th st at 11:30 am, both were 104 to West Chester. I was on the Flyer, the other bus was a NABI.
I rode the ones Ride-On uses back in October. They had a nicer ride than the Shit-on-wheels SEPTA runs, and they can accomondate standees. Here's a thought: maybe SEPTA can get some Orion2's (like the PHLASH buses) on routes like the 92. Is that a good idea?
SEPTA wanted to install the crossing gates on the trolley lines a few years ago, but Upper Darby Township residents and motorists said
"F--k NO!!!!!"
Krapf's , SEPTA, and Chester County should get together and improve the bus service between West Chester and Coatsville. My idea is for the line to be converted to a SEPTA line, with Krapf's operating it. SEPTA sets the schedule, supplies the buses, (like about 6 New Flyers), Krapf's operates the route, and Chester County supplies the funding for expanded service. That would rectify your complaints about the line.
I've had to walk ten blocks down from my school to 125th St just to catch a bus, after 11 PM! And when I manage to get a Bx15, no sooner do we get about three blocks across than a M100 or M101 pops up out of nowhere, when you'd expect both to short turn on Amsterdam. This is really getting annoying.
From the previous thread regarding "Fare Evasion", the item of ejecting passengers came up. I thought I would post the following rule from the NYCTA rulebook:
Rule 31. EJECTMENT OF PASSENGER; REPORT THEREOF
(a) In case of ejectment of a passenger, no more force must be used than is necessary to remove the passenger from the car, bus or System property. No blows must be struck nor weapons used by employees, unless absolutely necessary for the defense of themselves or other persons, and under all circumstances care must be taken for the safety of passengers. When the passenger voluntarily leaves the car, bus or System property or shows a willingness to do so, no hand must be laid on such person except to give needed assistance.
(b) When an ejectment or arrest is made, a full report must be made as in accident cases. Equal care must be taken to obtain names and addresses of witnesses, particularly the shield and district/precinct number of the police officer, if any, assisting in an ejection or an arrest.
http://www.qvdepot.com/rulebook/rules-027-034.html
The entire rulebook can be seen by accessing qvdepot.com and accessing "NYCTA Rulebook" from the main menu.
Comments?
I have heard you can get a RTS at auction. And someone reccommended me to goto the bus auctions of the local TA. Now could someone please give me some info on where they are held and times and who to contact?
Today I went into Jamaica to get my haircut and to do a little shopping. Here's what I saw today. MOST of the info you guys should already know. Oh, I'm not going to give the street names either so this will be short. Here I go:
#8394-Q30
#7012-Q30
#529-Q27
#533-Q27 LTD
#9357-Q88
#4326-Q88
#4939-Q88
#5163-Q17
#4558-Q17
#8371-Q75
#3933-Q43? (I'm not sure)
#4934-Q43
#621-Q75
#231-Q76 (THIS BUS IS ONE OF THE FEW ORION'S THAT HAS NOT BEEN REPOWERED....YET!)
#4198-Q1 (Looks like it will be scrapped within the next two weeks or so.)
#4910-Q36
#5159-Q77
#9535-Q3
#9548-Q77
#9373-Q43
#9539-Q17
#4919-Q36?
#307-Q76 (The bus is repowered BUT the engine sounds like it's doing 40 MPH and the bus itself is doing 15-20 MPH.)
#653-Q76
#8395-Q75
#9072-Q17
#4913-Q30
#8974-Q17
#8345-Q56
#7020-Q2?
#532-Q12 (The destination sign was so small, you would have need glasses to see the bus route and destination.)
#643-Q12
#8949-?
#8379-Q1
MTA LI BUS
#308-N24
#270-N6 (Cummins Engine was REALLY GOOD on that one!)
#170-N22
#621-N20
#642-?
#103-?
(Both at the Jamaica Bus Terminal)
NYCDOT Buses
#649-? GBL
#3845-Q110 JBL
All the 8300's I saw are repowered. All the 9300's are repainted. As a matter of fact, buses #9350-9381 ARE repainted. The 9500's I mentioned have been repainted but I do not know if they are ALL repainted. The 4900's and the 5100's are NOT repainted...YET!
As I was going into the city, I saw a few Suffolk Transit buses on the S-92, S-10A and these makes no sense...but the S-110 as well. This was a waste, especially with only THREE PEOPLE ON THE BUS! It's a waste of time and money from Exit 49 to Exit 63 via the Long Island Expwy. That's just my opinion. By the way, One of these buses was repainted to the new scheme...Bus #2004!
#9607 S-92
#2004 S-110 (This bus has cushion seats)
#9711 S-10A
How far into Nassau does the Suffolk buses go? Wednesday I was in Hicksville and I was hoping to see one.
Suffolk Transit stays in Suffolk. The only exceptions, if it exists would be if the S-1 veers into Nassau briefly as it goes into any industrial park because the county line runs close to Rte 110 in the Amityville area.
Also don't know if there is a route on Merrick Road and perhaps that bus may briefly enter the county. Certainly no Suffolk Route goes as deep into Nassau as LI Bus comes into Suffolk with the N79 going about four miles into here to the Walt Whitman Mall or the bus that goes into Babylon Village via Route 109.
The bus you saw on the LIE is the Suffolk Clipper designed to take people to their jobs from Park and Ride lots that serve the LIE. Originally Harran Coachways (under contract to the county) was running Prevost buses and that didn't draw people. Obviously the smaller and less costly to operate buses are failing also.
I think part of the problem is that many people cannot get away from their desk at an exact time in order to catch the bus. Since you can't guarantee that the boss will let you leave on time to catch the bus, you take your car. Also some people need a car to run errands or sales calls during the day. They can't take the bus. Also coming to work by bus also limits your choice of lunch. Basically you're restricted to the same restaurants if they're within walking distance or you brown bag it to work. Also by taking the bus limits the running of errands during lunch.
Suffok Transit has a number of lines that travel to Sunrise Mall In Massapequa Park.
LI Bus Has Lines to Walt Whitman Mall In Huntington, Several lines that go to Central Babalon and a shuttle that travels to NY110 In Farmingdale Near the Old Republic Airport.
Only into Eastern Nassau County...like Massapequa Park (Sunrise Mall).
[By the way, One of these buses was repainted to the new scheme...Bus #2004]
Bus 2004 is one of several that came in during 2000 specifically for the express service to Huntington. The new scheme is its original exterior. I forget exactly how many of these buses they have - perhaps 4 to 6 of them.
There are 6 of these Suburban Gilligs which are numbered 2000-2005.
When i lived in Long Island i recall seeing SC Buses at the Sunrise Mall is Massapequa
Thank You
Former QV bus #3924 which was sitting at a Police Station off the Grand Central Pkwy and Francis Lewis Blvd.....has been REPAINTED!!! The blue stripe has been painted over and the back of the bus has been painted ALL white! The white paint the MTA used to repaint the buses is still on the window frames but nonetheless bus #3924 is now all white. Obviously, the NYPD will use this bus for their use. I saw this today on the GCP.
Are you sure it's #3924? How?
Wait, I'm sorry. You are right...I believe it might have been #3922! My mistake. When you are in the car going 70 on the GCP, you would see almost anything.
I think brooklyn67 is asking how do we know it's 3924 if it is now all white.... are the numbers still visible on it?
Wellp, I feel like going on a huntdown for a while of erroneous bus signs before they city DOT fixes them and corrects them...here's one now...
Tune in for more...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
That sign, for some reason, has been up there for more than two years now. In fact, it is the same sign from when the bus stop at Fordham and Crotona was moved one block back to accomodate the entrance to the parking lot OF... the NYS DMV (how ironic; a bad bus sign outside a transportation agency).
Wasn't the M12 discontinued 25-30 yrs ago
Every limited stop sign on Lexington Avenue is incorrect. Ironically, they were correct to begin with! They all have the M102 as a limited line, even though no such service has ever existed. The signs on 3rd are all correct.
until 2 weeks ago the bus stop sign on the southbound be b 41 at the prospect park zoo had b41 local and b41 limited. b41 limited sign has now ben covered with duck tape.
lol
Spotted at Pelham Bay today...
If I find this bus again, I will get a rear and right-side shot just to show how funny it looks...are there any other New Flyers, or any other buses period, like this?
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
Right above the "Quality Control" sticker, too. Is the NYCTA the epitome of an oxymoron or what?
There is NOTHING wrong with that pipe, a lot of D60HF Galaxy's have thier pipes laying that way!
Trevor Logan
Air brake. Guess the tailpipe catches the breeze and slow the bus down.
Green Lines Orion #5505 has its pipe pointing downward, and it look strange.
-Jay
Purposely fitting the pipe like that would be inefficient as the rush of air hitting it would seem to inhibit the exaust from coming out when the bus is moving. My guess is that the pipe is probably loose and spun around, probably going through the bus wash. That is really just a tail pipe with an outer diameter fitting over a slightly smaller diameter pipe coming directly from the exaust. I can take the chrome tip over my tailpipe on my car and angle it in different directions also.
BIG AL
NY1.com reports that the Koskiusko Bridge will be going a massive long-awaited overhaul very soon. The B24 uses the Bridge to go to Brooklyn. May this mean the return of two MTA routes along 48th Street in Queens, the B24 and B30? Hmmmm.....
Do anybody know why Green Lines only runs the Q10A JFK Airport Express only between 7:14-8:54 in the AM Only? And why not going Northbound? They could make better use of the Q10A if they expend it doing the day from 7 AM to 7 PM with 15 Minute service from 7 AM to 9 AM and 5 PM to 7 PM. 30 Minute Serivce from 9 AM to 5 PM.
And anouther thing is the buses on Q10A. They could put 700 Series Oirons on there b/c it have Overhead Luggage Racks.
And anouther thing is the buses on Q10A. They could put 700 Series Orions on there b/c it have Overhead Luggage Racks.
Once the new AirTrain opens up i believe the Q-10A will be discontinued. Just my opinion and i have no inside information
Thank You
Another day off, another ride on SEPTA and NJT. My trip started at the Frankford Terminal. What a mess, but construction projects are messy, an indicator of progress. I rode the 66 Trackless trolley. It might be the last time before SEPTA removes the trolley-coaches form service. The AM General trolley looks like its not going to match the longevity of the Marmons and the Brills. The trolley is 22 years old and is looking like it.
At City Line, I got an Eldorado for my ride on the 129. This is the second time I rode the line since SEPTA restructured it, and it is a 70 minute grand tour of lower Bucks County, industrial parks, and faded suburbs. The original 129 was a 45 minute quickie through these same bland areas.
I took a break at Oxford Valley Mall, then I waited outside for my next bus. Either I was getting on the 127 to Trenton or the 14 to Frankford. After seeing the shit-on-wheels running the 127 (the dreaded cutaway), I decided to wait for the 14. But when another cutaway arrived on the 203, I took that to the Woodbourne Station to catch the R3 into town. Bad Move. The train sat outside of Neshaminy Falls for 15 minutes because of a switch problem. I got to Fern Rock late, then I took the Broad St Subway to City Hall.
After I got out of the subway, I walked to the Gallery. During the walk, I saw almost every type of transit bus seen in Philly form a huge wall of buses that is almost 3 blocks long. Flxible Metro B's and D's, Flyers, Neoplan An440's and 460's, MCI D-4000's, and NOVA RTS's were slowly rumbling by me. If I had a camera I'd take a picture of it, what a sight!
When I finally got on a NJT bus, I took the 407 to Moorestown Mall, and express trip that used Rt. 30 and 130 to the Pennsauken-Merchantville border (1st stop) and diverted via the Fox Meadows
Apartments. If the bus served the complex on a regular basis, not rush hours, it probably get more business. If we were in Washington DC Suburbs, this route would have diverted to serve this complex en-route to the mall, since the bus routes do that as a tradition. During non-rush hours, the 407 keeps going straight on Rt 537, ignoring a market that could use some Public transit.
After dinner, I got on the 413 to Camden. This bus literally flew on RT 38, getting me to Camden in about 1/2 hour. Once I got across Broadway, my 403 arrived and it took me home. The 407 was a 37xx Metro D, the last two buses were Metro B's in the 31xx series.
I got one more really good day of riding tommorrow, so I'll give you guys my report on that tommorow.
Where would be the best place to spot the Bee Line's Neoplan AN460?
If you have a TON of patience and are willing to travel, try the TransCenter up in White Plans, the junction for most of the Bee Line bus routes. Otherwise try Bedford Park Blvd - Jerome Av (Route 20), or Fordham Rd - Valentine Av (Route 60).
Continuation transfers will work on ANY bus line within 30 minutes of issue. As a matter-of-fact, farebox code entry 10, 11, and 12 (yes, not in service) will work on any route, including the original bus route.... because... the bus was "not in service" which isn't any particular line.