If anyone is in the Los Angeles area this weekend or next I will be running buses for shuttles for the auto show. This years line up will be:
5034 TA60-102N Ex Mississauga Transit articulated GM
3907 TDH 5304 Ex DCT #6342, ex RTA #162, currently NYCTA
5285 T6H 5307A Ex PANYNJ #20, ex LAX #20, ex ETS #2455 cur.NYCTA
1415 T8H 5307A Ex Steinway Transit #8, ex Double A #1415
2363 1990 RTS TMC Ex SCRTD/LAMTA
This will be great this year with all the NYCTA running. Even more interesting is that 1415 will be in the Double A paint scheme one weekend and NYCTA metallic green the next. If anyone is interested, let me know.
>>> If anyone is interested, let me know. <<<
Where is the auto show, and where are the shuttles running to and from?
Tom
You can board the shuttles free of charge at either Pico & Figueroa MTA bus stop or Grand & Venice at the bus loading station.
The Auto Show happens at the Convention Center.
However this will be a true busfans paradise.
I will be on the buses keeping an eye on things.
Mr.Blue
First off a Happy New Year to everyone.
New Years day brought little in the way of traffic, just cold temps. I took the N21 going to Flushing, which was one of the new 300s. At Great Neck the driver shuts the engine off. There's no mention of why until I asked a few moments later. She said there was no coolant in the engine, and said we'd have to wait for a truck. We'll the train was coming in a few minutes so I bailed and hopped on the LIRR for a quick ride to Flushing. Normally I'd wait, but it was freezing cold and who knew how long the maint. truck would take to get there.
As far as why the fluid ran out, well I guess we'll have to wonder. When I got to Flushing I walked on over to the bus stop and informed the outbound customers that the N21 bus was running late due to a mechanical problem. Yeah I know it's weird but when there's a delay and I'm waiting in the bitter cold I'd like to know about it, so I informed them that it was running late.
I saw #304 arrive in Flushing at about 1:40pm, it only got in about 20 minutes late. It left only 15 minutes late, but the B/O lost her break.
Yes I know what you Cummins fans must be thinking, the Series 50 broke down. Well it didn't "break down", somebody at the depot didn't check the fluids before it pulled out so all it needed was a little fluid and it was running fine.
And running fine it was. Rode it later in the afternoon home and it ran fine. I have mentioned before that the numerous problems LIB has have alot to do with poor maintainance. But at least with detroit diesel products they can take the abuse and run fine after fluid is put in. BTW I have yet to see any diesel Orion (w/6v92) or 2000 Orion CNG (w S50G) have to be towed.
I came to the city yesterday to spend the night dancing Argentine tango. I arrived early at 5:37 on Amtrak from Wash, DC. I rode the M4 to Cathedral Avenue and back to 57th street where I caught the M31 to York Avenue. I walked up to 60th Street and caught the M57 to 8th Avenue to catch the subway to Dance Manhattan.
I noticed the M27 and M50 where rerouted on 57th Street as I guess 49th and 50th Streets were closed for New Year's Eve.
What other buses were rerouted? I guess M5,6,7, 34, 16, 42, 104.
Michael
P.S. Still can't find timetables on the bus.
call me 914 668 9218
steve
if you need them ,,call me
There is no Cathedral Avenue. You're thinking of Cathedral Parkway, which is universally known by its other name, W. 110th Street.
Because of the need to balance the depots (AM versus PM Bus Requirements), There is 1 out of the 15 M98 Runs coming out of MCH. Run X1, The 7:24 out of The Cloisters, So in speaking this is VERY small split run, it will not totally move to Mother Clara Hale. Micheal J. Quill still runs the majority (99.94%) of the M98.
Same goes for the M30...Only 2 of the 9 or 10 runs (Run X2 & X3) will come out of MCH. Micheal J, Quill will still again run the majority (78%) of the M30.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Well X-runs are not full runs. They are just overtime peices. In MABSTA Driver pick the X-Runs bast on list number, so someone should have them every day unless the driver pull sick. But then I think a person from the X-List pick up both jobs while the first day if was to late of a call gose to someone on report. I liled Brooklyn TA way better, if you want to work a X-run then you put in for it. If you have less peices they anyone else you get it, but this can lead to having some X-runs stay open.
Robert
What time runs X2 and X3 would leave?
I've been on that M98 before...they mostly run old Orions, yet the last time I rode on the M98 out of MCH it was on an un-repowered bus. :-\
I have seen #6024 on that line i the morning...around 8:00-8:15am...if you call that old, then that's pretty much right...I guess they put anything on that line...not just 1993 un-repowered Orions...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
The M98 is my long suit.
Here's a re-post of a table of bus numbers that can run on the M98, and their top speeds:
BUS SERIES
GOVERNOR
51XX
60 MPH
86XX
55 MPH
96XX
60 MPH
--Mike
Run X1 comes from the Cloisters? The M98 in general ends at the traffic circle at the south end of the park.
Being the M98 savant that I am (I publish an anatomically correct bootleg version of the timetable in Spanish for my uptown neighbors) I can tell you that all the southbound M98s start just south of the Margaret Corbin traffic circle--Fort Washington Ave at Cabrini Blvd. It's not the Cloisters, but as far as people who don't live up here are concerned, it might as well be.
It's close enough for government work.
The M4s, of course, travel to and from the Cloisters when it's open.
--Mike
December 26:
My trip started off in a rather interesting way. I made a unique acquisition to my collection when I was able to pick up a piece of upholstery off the floor of Breda 3219 on my way to Union Station. It was more like a strip. I could see where it had come from and it was about 6 inches in length. I saw the holiday display at Union Station and then went to board my Acela Express to New York. The train we had was trainset number 14 (2015-2005). I got the conductor who gave me the carbide in September and I found some other things out from the train crew. All the Acela trainsets are to be in service in June. Eighteen will run daily and two will be in "reserve". The bathroom doors, as I mentioned in the post earlier this week, are still problematic and some people at Amtrak are bracing for a big PR issue if anything happens. This was a conductor who said he was bracing for the trouble, I wonder if the dark suits even thought of this. As I said, they needed a crowbar to get one of those doors open. Also, the curve at the Metropark station is the reason why the Acela has to spend such a long time at that station. The doors can't get enough air to close due to the tilt and they must be closed manually. They had to do this with three of them on that trip. Maybe the Acela should only open selected doors at Metropark. While we were there, a NJT train with Comet cars pulled in while we were platformed and left before we did. Also, it didn't appear too many people on the platform were happy to see us pull in and sit forever. What surprised me was the number of thru passengers from points south to Boston. We arrived one minute late. While taking the switches at Penn, someone commented that the Acela was less stable than the Metroliner. I told them it wasn't and the switches we were riding on were the problem but he refused to believe me.
I went to the subway where I added money to my MetroCard, then entered and waited for an E train. An R38 C train came, followed by an R32 E to 179th that was suffering a really bad case of lost train syndrome. The first four cars were signed as follows:
179th Street
Queens
Canal Street
Manhattan
E 8th Avenue
Local
The next four cars were signed this way:
179th Street
Queens
Canal Street
Manhattan
F 6th Avenue/
Culver Local
Finally, the last two cars were signed:
Jamaica Center/
Parsons-Archer
Canal Street
Manhattan
E 8th Avenue
Local
I got a photo of the F sign, which I might get developed later today. I got on in the last car, 3885, then moved through to its mate and wound up in the last of the F signed cars, 3468. The conductor announced several times "This is an E train operating over the F route to 179th" which confused a few people but it seemed most people knew where to go. I got off at Lex where two V trains came in following the E I was on, both were rather empty. This was at about 7 PM.
I went upstairs and caught R62A 1805 on the 6. The T/O on this train accelerated so quickly it was amazing. The instant the doors closed, we were off.
December 27:
My travels today by transit were limited. I took Artic 1048 on the M79 from Madison to Columbus and RTS 4828 from there to Lincoln Center on the M11.
December 28:
Many travels today. I started at 77th Street where I bought a Fun Pass and caught R142A 7261 to Grand Central, where I switched for the express and got R62 1391 to Union Square. 1391 seemed to sway quite a bit between 42nd and 14th. The plan was to arrive about 5 minutes before the 8th Avenue bound R143 at 9:35, take it to 8th, then go to Canarsie on its 9:46 interval, and then continue elsewhere. I asked a C/R on a train of R42s heading to 8th if the 143 was in service, he said yes, but he didn't know how far back it was because there was switching trouble in ENY that morning. It eventually came, about 45 minutes late. The problem with my choosing Union Square to wait is that it is hard to identify the Manhattan bound train car types as they enter since there is a curve and a grade before they enter the station. I noticed while I was waiting many trains were signed J on the head ends (the ends were signed correctly) and that these signs were illuminated, even though they served no real purpose at that point.
Once on the R143, I went to 8th Avenue. It was about to go out for the Canarsie trip immediately but they decided to push it back an interval so the crew could get a break. When they announced the next train would be on the opposite track, everyone left except me, which made the train crew realize I was in fact a railfan. The speed in the river was good, although some of those curves are really slow. I wish they had let the male recording do the transfers or they should have gotten rid of him altogether, his limited existence is really stupid in my opinion. Also, there is an S bullet under 6th Avenue on the trip map, any reason why? I do like the R143 much more than the R142A. I think it looks better from the outside and maybe because it isn't replacing the redbirds. I can't say the R42s are my favorite cars in the system, but the R40 slants are up there. I think as we left the station before Halsey, I was invited into the cab for a brief ride. The controller is in a really uncomfortable position. I had to leave just before we entered ENY due to the possible high numbers of supervision in the area. I rode out to Canarsie, where I ran back to the lead for the Manhattan bound trip, and doubled back to ENY. They did a partial shutdown at Canarsie which they told me often does not work. I hope to be able to ride the R143 again in the future, it seems like quite a nice train.
At ENY, I changed for the J. That platform needs a windscreen badly! I got R42 4808 which I took out to Jamaica Center. Can the lower levels of the Archer Avenue Stations hold 10 cars? Also, why are there no real stop markers, just numbers sprayed on the wall? We passed over a set of railroad tracks in the vicinity of 121st Street. Who uses those tracks? I am not talking about the LIRR tracks the train passes right before the Archer Avenue portal, but the ones before those if you are on the outbound train. Lastly, for anyone who complains that the curves on the J are really bad, they aren't much worse than some others on the NYC subway system. While I have yet to complete it, the N/R/W at 57th, the 1 and 2 near Chambers, and the L in various places come to mind immediately.
Went upstairs and caught an R32 E train. It was about to leave so I got on towards the back and walked up. The lead car was 3589. I got off at Union Turnpike and noted that car number 3862 was paired with car 3839. I then took R46 6038 to 179th Street. I went "up and over" to wait for an R32, which lasted about as long as I had food to eat. I eventually took 5958 from 179th to 47-50. It was a nice run but I can't say the Queens Boulevard Express is really that fast. We couldn't even pass an R train between Elmhurst and Roosevelt. The train also has to slow down quite a bit at 36th to get to the 63rd Street Connector. Lexington appeared to be used quite heavily and it seemed everyone knew where they were going. The C/R announced before Roosevelt the service change but didn't announce the transfer to the 6 at Lex. I went "up and over" at 47-50 where I caught a R46 5652 on the V to Queens. The V was quite full, all seats were taken, and many people exited at 23rd Avenue. I went to Queens Plaza, only because the C/R didn't announce the 7 transfer at 23rd which I had forgot. Our V pulled in at the same time as an R across the platform but I changed for an Manhattan bound E and didn't look to see which left first. I rode in the 9th car, 3420, which was paired with 3465. I then used the MetroCard transfer (although I had a Fun Pass) to get to the 7. I took the express to Main Street with R36 WF 9697, then came back stopping at Willets Point to walk the bridge towards Corona and Casey Stengal where I saw Viking 996 and also stopping at 111th, 82nd, and 46th, for photo ops, before going to Grand Central. I rode the following WF and ML R36s on the inbound legs: 9650, 9377, 9527, 6475, and 9404. I bought this year's calendar, and then shuttled over to Times Square on R62A 1931 to see the Jacob Lawrence mosaic. I then took R62A 1880, which I believe had a blue sticker on it, to 148th Street. I saw 1731-1735 on the 3 with Pelham stickers and 1771-1775 had red stickers. I exited at 148th, hoping to find the M102 stop at 147th. When I got there, I found the stop but it seemed to be the last stop. The driver of an M1 took me around to 146th and Lenox, the official stop, on board Orion V 6042, and then I got TMC RTS 5187 on the M102 back to the Upper East Side. That terminal stand should be moved to 147th and Clayton in my opinion so it is closer to the subway, the M2, and also because that is what the map depicts.
December 29:
A far less eventful day. I should have bought a fun pass because it would have saved money but I didn't. I was going from the Upper East Side to Rockefeller Center and without the F on weekends, it was quite a trip. I first took R62A 1811 to 59th Street. I then walked up to 63rd to get the F there. The conductor announced the W at 59th and not the F. Someone has got to get these 6 C/Rs to get it straight. They always announce the W when it doesn't run and no one on any line is announcing the MetroCard transfers. There was one person on the platform at Lex who didn't realize it was a MetroCard only transfer so someone was trying to give them directions. I got R46 5952 which I took to 47-50. After seeing the tree, my next destination was the Met. I was going to go by bus, so I eventually wound up at the stop at Madison and 58th, a limited stop. Two limiteds had just left, and on Saturdays, I have found the limited beats out the local despite the 10 minute wait. The only problem was that the wait ended up being about 20 minutes for any bus. First came an M1 which I passed up, and nothing came on the M3 or 4 either. It was the worst Saturday M2 Limited I have been on since it was fairly crowded. The bus was TMC RTS 8791. Later in the day, I took R62A 1721 to Grand Central where I took the 5:20 Hudson Line train to Tarrytown. The first two cars were closed off to passengers which made no sense to me since some passengers were standing. The car was 8086, what type is that? Also, what are the three lights (green, amber, and blue) above the cab for?
December 31:
Spent a few minutes at Irvington photographing. Unfortunately, since my camera battery is lithium and it was about 30 degrees, it wasn't working too well. I missed a shot of a passing Empire Service train as well as the rear of a northbound local. I got a few pics which I hope do come out.
To anyone who finds the questions in this post and answers them, thanks in advance. Also, the pics will be on my site ASAP.
I was also at Lincoln Center on 12/27. Avery Fisher Hall, seat R7 or thereabouts.
The S bullet on the R-143 is for the now-defunct 63rd Street shuttle. It should be removed.
At some stations, the stop markers are under the platform. Is it possible you were looking in the wrong place?
There's no such street as Clayton. If you mean Adam Clayton Powell Jr. Boulevard, I believe (although I'm not certain) that the locals call it 7th Avenue.
Did you notice that the 148th Street subway station is at 149th Street?
I wonder why they call it 148th Street, I guess not to be confused with the 149St-GC across the bridge. When I used the official entrance, I also noticed its at 149St and not 148St.
(I know this is supposed to be at Subtalk)
I didn't see anything at those Archer Ave stations other than the spray painted markers.
Clayton was Powell then. After riding the subway for 8 hours, you aren't going to remember the name of each and every NYC street that carries more than 1 name.
I noticed 148th not being at 148th. Sorta confusing in my opinion. There isn't any enterance on 148th is there?
Among them:
New route 96 from Grosvenor to Rock Spring and Montgomery Mall
Routes 23 and 90 now have Saturday service
Route 43 now goes somewhere it didn't used to
Other changes on other routes.
Here is the info off of Ride-On's site.
RIDE ON SERVICE CHANGES
Effective Sunday, January 6, 2002
On Routes 1, 2, 5, 6, 9, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 23, 26, 34, 35, 38, 43, 46, 48, 49, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 61, 62, 63, 64, 70, 71, 73, 74, 78 and 90 there are schedule adjustments, added, reduced and new service. Refer to your individual timetables or call 240-777-7433 for exact times.
New schedules are available on this web site
WEEKDAY-SATURDAY-SUNDAY
Route 1-Increased frequency in midday and additional evening weekday and Saturday trips. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 2-Additional PM weekday trips.
AM service to Walter Reed Medical Center is by request only.
Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 5-Trip time adjustments on this route with two late night trips reduced.
Check your schedule for adjustments.
Route 6-Trip time adjustment and new Route 96 operating Grosvenor/Rock Spring. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 9-Additional AM Sunday trips.
Check your schedule for new trip imes.
Route 11-Trip time adjustments on this route. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 13-Trip time adjustments to AM trips.Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 14 Additional AM and evening weekday trips.Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 15-Midday trip time adjustment.
Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 16-Trip time adjustments on weekday, Saturday, and Sunday. Check your schedule for adjustments
Route 17-Saturday service frequency in midday hours now every 20 minutes and additional weekday, Saturday, and Sunday trips. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 21-This route will be discontinued. Call Transit Information Center at 240- 777-7433 for more information.
Route 23-New Saturday service with 30 minutes frequency starting 6:30AM to 8:00PM. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 26-Reduced two weekday, Saturday, and Sunday late night trips. Check your schedule for adjustments
Route 34- Additional AM and PM trips.
Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 35-Additional weekday and Saturday trips. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 38-Additional weekday and Saturday trips. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 43-New Extended Route/New Saturday Service
This route will be extended to serve the University of Maryland Shady Grove Campus. All trip times have changed.
New Saturday service starting at 6:45AM to 7:00PM. No service on Broschart Drive. Check your schedule for new map and trip times.
Route 46-Time adjustments on AM and midday trips. Only designated trips will serve Shady Grove Station. Additional weekday and Saturday trips. Check your schedule for adjustments.
Route 48-Additional weekday and Saturday trips. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 49-Additional weekday and Saturday trips. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 54-All Saturday trips go via Muddy Branch Shopping Center between 9AM-5PM. Additional PM trips. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 55-Improve weekday service frequency to 20 minutes during the day to connect with route 43. Reduced two late night trips weekday and Saturday and three on Sunday. Check your schedule for adjustments.
Route 56-Additional Saturday and Sunday trips. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 57-Trip time adjustments on weekday AM service. Additional Sunday AM and PM trips. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 58-Additional weekday and Saturday trips. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 59-Reduced late night service on weekdays, Saturday, and Sunday. Check your schedule for adjustments.
Route 61-All weekday time adjustments. Additional Saturday and Sunday trips
Check your schedule for adjustments.
Route 62-Additional weekday, Saturday, and Sunday trips. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 63-All trip times now changed.
Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 64-New Sunday Service
This route will operate on Sunday from 7:00AM to 7:30PM starting January 6, 2002. Additional weekday and Saturday trips. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 70-Additional weekday trips. Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 68, 69, 71, 74, 78-Will serve New Germantown Transit Center located at Aircraft Drive and MD 118. Check your schedule for new maps.
Route 73-New Extended Route
This route will be extended to serve the newly finished Goldenrod Lane and continue to Milestone Park & Ride. Check your schedule for new map and trip times.
Route 90-New Saturday Service
Trip time adjustments on weekday service. This route will operate on Saturday from 6:30AM to 7:30PM.
Check your schedule for new trip times.
Route 96-New Shuttle Service
This route will serve Grosvenor Station, Rock Spring Park and Montgomery Mall. Check your schedule for new map and trip times.
For schedules, check out www.rideonbus.com
The exam leading to a position as Bus Operator for New York City Transit has opened. Filing begins Wednesday January 2 2002, with the exam scheduled for April 13 2002.
Applicants must have a drivers license and at least three years driving experience. You do NOT need any prior bus training or a Commercial Drivers License.
Because the position is highly competitive, a clean driving record (by the time you are called for review) is essential. If you can remove points from your record via 5-hour classes, take it before you are called.
At the time of appointment, you must have a Commercial Drivers Learners Permit, obtained on your own personal time. Upon passage of your exam, the NYCTA will secure your CDL license as part of your training.
Official exam announcements are available during the filing period, along with application forms, at the:
Department of Citywide Administrative Services
Application Center
18 Washington Street
New York, New York
Monday through Friday
9am to 5pm
(212) 487-JOBS
Application forms may be downloaded from the internet at http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcas/html/examforms.html
I highly recommend anybody who wants to file, FILE RIGHT NOW, or as soon as possible. Reason: people who get the same score, are called in the sequence of when their application was received. So somebody who get's a good score, but filed near the last day could wind up waiting a whole year longer, than somebody who filed near the first day. In the event same score applications are received the same day, then it goes by the first letter of the last name, in alphabetical order.
BIG AL
Al is 100% correct, however, if you don't have a "stellar" drivers license, and need a bit more time to remove points or accident ratings from your license, then filing on the LAST day would actually benefit you because you would be called later in time, and hopefully be accepted because points were removed from your license during the time that others who filed earlier were called.
Because I myself hadn't had the perfect driving record, I filed on the last day. It actually helped my cause because it took an extra year to be called. During that year, a few points were removed from my license and I was able to get the job. Had I been called earlier, neither MaBSTOA nor TA would have had an interest in me...
:)
Good point. I was mainly giving a shout out to people in general with clean licenses who just want to get hired as soon as possible. However, if your license in less then perfect, then follow Brooklyn67's advice.
BIG AL
Like I said, you were 100% correct as stated. I was just looking out for those who might not take the test thinking the TA wouldn't want them because of their less-than-perfect driving record.
Point being- get the job any way you can, IF this is something you really want to do (lol)...
Sorry for the short notice, but in case anyone needed a reminder, NJ Transit will be holding public hearings tonight at 8:00pm to gather input on the proposed fare increase. The hearings will be held at:
* - NJT Headquarters, Newark
* - Paramus Catholic High School
* - Freehold Borough Municipal Building
* - NJDOT Headquarters, Ewing Twp
* - Walter Rand Transportation Center, Camden
* - Atlantic County Government Center, Atlantic City
Visit the NJ Transit web site for more details.
beginning 1/6/02, the B74 will no longer go through the Coney Island loop at mermaid Av and Stillwell av. B74 to Coney Island are rerouted as follows:
right on W16th St
left on Surf Av
left on Stillwell Ave to the new bus shelter.
return regular route
here's hoping the new terminal there will work.
B1-#4786
B64-#9301
And B64 buses going to Bay Ridge will leave Stillwell Terminal by continuing along Stillwell Avenue to Surf Avenue, then right on W. 17th Street, then right on Neptune Avenue, then left on Stillwell Avenue and regular.
David
Thank you ,David
Steve
That meen that they are going to start tearing down 1 track of the N line.
Robert
A little off topice===does anyone have NEW drawings of the Stillwell Terminal ---updated for year 2003 etc
I have posed this question to Subtalk ,,with no response
Thank you
Steve
A little off topice===does anyone have NEW drawings of the Stillwell Terminal ---updated for year 2003 etc
I have posed this question to Subtalk ,,with no response
Thank you
Steve
FDNY
On Thursday, January 3, 2002, the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (WMATA) will send the first ten of 40 CNG (compressed natural gas) Metrobuses to Salt Lake City, Utah, to provide transportation for the Winter Olympics games. The first ten buses will begin pulling out at 7 a.m. Thursday at the Montgomery Bus Division, 5400 Marinelli Road in Rockville, Maryland. Ten more will be sent to Salt Lake City next week and 20 will be transported the following week.
"As we did with the Summer Olympics in Atlanta, Georgia, we are providing this support for an event of world-wide significance," stated General Manager Richard A. White. "This is our way to say, Go, USA.' "
"We are able to make these buses available as we complete our CNG bus facility at the Bladensburg Bus Division. That's where a total of 164 CNG buses will eventually be housed for operation in our system," noted Jack Requa, Chief Operating Officer for Bus.
The buses will be transported on flat bed trucks to Salt Lake City. Ten trucks will arrive at the Montgomery Division tomorrow morning to begin loading the buses, one per truck. A special flat bed truck will front load each bus and then back each bus onto the flat bed that will take it to Salt Lake City.
Salt Lake City has CNG facilities where the buses will be fueled in time for the games. Once fueled, the buses will ferry participants and fans between Winter Olympics venues for the duration of the games.
Metro will also send one Metrobus supervisor to Salt Lake City to oversee the operation of the buses. The CNG buses are manufactured by New Flyer, and the Bennett company is supplying the drivers for the flat bed trucks that will transport the buses.
I heard there might be raise in the bus fare later in 2002. If anyone has any info, then post it.
-
(A New quote for the new year)
Will the drought at Fresh Pond ever end? 3 years and still going.
I heard the opposite, that the fare would not be increased this year. Where did you hear otherwise?
What happened was, New York State Comptroller McCall (running for governor, or at least thought to be running for governor) claimed that NYC Transit would need a fare increase in 2002. Governor Pataki (also running for governor, or at least thought to be running for governor), who is in a position to prevent a fare increase, responded that there won't be one in 2002.
David
Yes. By the end of 2003, the local bus and subway fare will be $2 and the express buses will go back to $4. The State Comptroller has been saying that the MTA needed to raise fares since mid-2000, but no one has been paying attention to him.
I'll take Pataki's word with a grain of salt. It's so nice of him to want to keep the fare down, but if the MTA can't fund all of its capital projects, I'd like to see if this money appears out of thin air or whether it will be a diversion from a capital project. I would not be surprised if the higher fares are in place by September 2002. If they touch that Second Avenue money again...
The Governor made the no-fare-increase pledge for 2002. He made no comments about subsequent years, to my knowledge.
David
I'm back guys! It's Ray wishing all of you and your families a Happy New Year! I would also like to wish a late Merry Christmas to all as well because I did not do that last year....I had finals at Southampton College on Long Island. My GPA is now 3.40!
Okay, now to business.....I went to the city (Queens) to get my haircut and here's what I saw. I saw bus 8377 (repowered) on the Q30 at Horace Harding and Springfield going towards Jamaica. As I was getting off the LIE (westbound) and onto the Clearview Expwy (southbound) I saw bus 9xx (QSC) coming off the LIE (esatbound) onto the Clearview (southbound). I think it was 935, I forgot to post this message yesterday. Where was that bus going anyway? Back to North Shore Towers or to 73rd Av and Bell Blvd or what? Anyway, we (my father and I) got off at the westbound Grand Central Pkwy and I saw that bus at the Police Station off the G.C.P. It has a QV patch but I could not read the number. As we worked our way to 169th St and Hillside Av, I saw bus 626 in front of me. I could not tell if it was the Q30 or Q31 because the rear sign was not working however the bus was proceeding down 169th St as if it was runnning on the Q30 or Q31. I also saw something very strange....at Hillside Av and 168th Pl, the Q2, Q3, Q75 and Q76 are dropping passengers off and picking up passengers at that stop. They use to stop at 169th St and Hillside but I guess they moved them because of the Q30 and Q31 being overcrowded or something like that. The last time buses were stopping on Hillside Av and 168th Pl was the Q42 back in 12/10/1988 before it went to Jamaica Center (Parsons/Archer). My barber is on 165th St Mall so I saw the buses....most of the QV's 9300's have been repainted because I saw 9364 and 9367 naked especially 9367. I saw 270 with a long exhaust pipe sticking out. To wrap this up, I also saw at various points buses 4330 (Q43) with the paint on the roof chipping away, 8971 (Q3), 263(Q44), GBL 5501 (Q60) (orange balios sign on front AND BACK), 670 (Q44), 9170 (Q54) repainted with chrome wheels?, 9376 (repainted on the Q31), 4929 (Q30), 4942 (Q36), 8392 (repowered), 8956, 4579 (Q17), 9369 (repainted), 4332 (Q30), QSC 485 (QM1A from North Shore Towers) at Horace Harding near Marathon Pkwy. In Nassau, I saw bus 305 on the LIE at exit 38 (Not In Service) going east.
That's it! Sorry if this was long. It's good to be back.
Ray
All of the 9300s have been repainted. Also were you on Union Tpke and Utopia around 10am this morning, January 3, 2002? If you were, then you may have seen a whole bunch of people there with cameras. I took a pic of 4332 on the Q30 for a class that I'm taking. I did not see 626 4929 or 9376 however-yet I may have missed them pass me by.
I did not see QSC 485 either. I saw 495 on the QM1A. Also 339 and 443.
I got pics of...well I'll surprise you with that eventually on transitworld.
#485 QM1A
#7001 Q46
#4332 Q30
www.transitworld.org
PS Happy New Year to you too. Glad to have you back!
I saw bus 4929 and 9376 at Grand Central Pkwy Eastbound Service Rd as those buses made a right from under the pkwy and onto Homelawn St about a little after ten. So you probably did miss them.
Ray
An article from the New York Times' site (free registration required) exploring the post-Sept. 11 rider crunch on Tri-State transit systems, particularly New Jersey Transit and PATH. Includes an exploration of possible alternatives, including "bus rapid transit" -- or a subway-like system of buses travelling on dedicated pavement with turnstile passenger control.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/03/nyregion/03TRAN.html
C
OK this will get ye all going.
According to the legend J.C Rebis Jr he said that back in the early 80's NYCTA tested out some bat wing cocept on an RTS like they did on the Grumman.
Unlike the Grumman 681 which were actually drilled into the bus, he said the RTS was done for a very short time with the wings held on by suction cups.
I am curious as if anyone has any info or saw this when and if it took place.
Maybe it was TA 200 the GMC RTS 04 demo?
Ideas?
Mr.Blue
Wow - I never saw or heard about it on a NYCTA RTS (or any RTS). Also - The Grumman Flxible 870 was #631.
Wayne
That's what I thought it was; I have seen pics of this bus. It looks really different and has a European look with those installed. In fact, it inspired a custom Road Champs Flx with batwings that I recently made for caine824; that one came out really sharp!
-F.
Yes, it did look quite different. Can you imagine my shock as a 14 year old enjoying the then new Grumman Flxible 870's... And then one day I was waiting for a M3 bus and #631 shows up.
Wayne
Are you saying that J.C. Rebis, Jr. is a legend? Or are you saying, "according to legend....." referring to the story?
Perhaps he meant J.R.Caronetti. He's a legend! Our initials are the same although somewhat 'twisted' around.
The legend of that "ghost" RTS has been knocking around and NO one has a foto. Hmmmm. Back in the day, WAY before MaBSTOA tried out wings on the TDH5303's in the last of the 5500 series, it did one in the 3000 series. That disappeared quickly. A shock to behold.
That pilot batwing bus was 3472. Any photos of that bus floating around?
Thanks for the follow ups.
Like I said "The Legend" J.C Rebis Jr gave me a story of the bus and I was just followed up on this reporting.
If indeed it was 3472 it was rumored to have been only done for use in promo photos for a program that obviously never happened.
Maybe it looked like the "Fins" on nova 6360?
Blue
Just to clarify, the 3472 I mentioned was the first fishbowl to get batwings, not 3472 the RTS. Haven't got a clue to any RTS with wings.
Thanx for clarification on BOTH those bus numbers. I never saw that 5303 again after that one-time sighting running up Manhattan. I was at 145 th waiting for the old "30" crosstown, now the BX19. That bus was the forerunner of the 10(?) 5500 series 5303's to follow. Inside these buses one could view the actual standee window area, blackened out by the wing's overlay. When the 5303's in the 6000 series arrived, 6701-6900 had wings. These had the standee window area covered over by aluminum painted the interior green then in use on the OA/TA fishbowls. The 8000's that came in 1967 had the car card ad racks lowered and removed the standee windows altogether.
That RTS, though. No one ever snapped a picture as far as anyone knows. It shall always be the phantom RTS. Additionally the winged 870 was never repeated in this city nor in any other.
Also don't forget 7768,the only New Look Flxible to have the Bus-a-Rama advertising.
I think it was 7753.
Not 7768 but 7753.....
Actually, NYCTA 7753 was NOT the only New Look Flxible to get Bus-O-Rama displays!!
Southern California Rapid Transit District had a bunch of their 6100-6274 series Flxibles with them.
Mr. Blue can probably elaborate on which specific fleet numbers within the series had them.
Kansas City also had some 30-foot Flxibles with them I believe.
Add Miami-Dade and Broward Counties to the list of having winged Flx New Looks.
SCRTD Flxible 6082 was the RTD testbed for Bat Wings here in LA.
In early pics you will see artwork by Peter Max with the "Bus O-Rama" as they were called logo.
Somewhere I saw a pic of Peter Max sanding on the rear bumper of a Belski 5301 promoting an earlier ad design did.
Blue
Okay, I WAS gonna say something about a 6000 with Batwings, but wasn't sure....thanks for refreshing my memory.
Which 6100-6274 series buses had 'em? (I know 5050-5099 GM TDH5303's also had 'em.)
I will have to look up my rosters but as I recall the 5000's and 6100's with the wings were operated out of Div.1 and Div.7 and as I recall there was little order to what buses had them as they were all applied under RTD operation.
Also note were the HUGE sidgesigns that winged buses got abve the rear door but were usually plastered with an ad later on when the signs went haywire.
Next to the rear door was a switch for these side rollsigns and I think the readings were limited to use on certian ines such as the 26, 28, 44, 83 thus reflecting Div.1, and 7 useage.
A certian "Noted Transit Historian" who works in your office should have them in an old WT roster file.
Blue
Miami had a rather interesting fleet of buses with bat-wings!
The fleet consisted of the following:
Flxibles
models 53096-8-1
#s500-574
#s 1-30 (express buses with high padded seats)
GMs
model T8H-5306A
#s100-199
model TDH-5304
#401-420 (the first in Miami)
some in the 200, 300, & 800 series were retrofitted with wings locally.
The local Gray Line operated two local routes with New Looks, some had wings. They were in the 80-83 (T8H-5306A) and 84-86 (T8H-5308A).
I’ve seen photographs on the Internet of bat-wing Flxible New Looks operating in Syracuse, NY (CNY Centro) and Rochester, NY (Regional Transit Service).
Jim D.
Do you still have the link to these websites? I'd like to check these out also. I never knew that upstate New York cities had batwing buses.
There's photos of the upstate buses with Batwings in the new Flxible book by John McKane.
I had seen some Empire Trails Flxibles in albany with them too, in the 80's. The ads were a bit shorter than usual, though
Both JCR and JRC are legends in their own minds!
I thought the Grumman was either 631 or 641? It sounds like the drilled Batwings were a lot more sturdy thought than the suction cups. Where are there photos of this RTS?
-F.
The Grumman 870 with the pseudo-Batwings was NOT 681. It was 631.
Suction cups? Sounds a bit dodgy . . . they'd fall off the first time you sideswipe a low-hanging tree branch!
If anyone has a photo of this vehicle, please post . . . would be interesting to see an RTS with batwings!
C
I bet it would look strange since the RTS's give the appearance of being curved and not as boxy looking as the Fishbowls and the Bat-Wings are straight.
It wouldn't look any stranger than a fishbowl -- those were pretty rounded too.
I think if "standard" Batwings were used, on an RTS the forward-most piece should have slanted the opposite of the fishbowls' front piece, as it would then match the slanted front of the RTS a tad better (some cities did do just this on fishbowls....)
HAS ANYONE RIDDEN THE NEW CART SERVICE ALONG CITY AVENUE.....IT FEATURES "NEXTBUS" TECHNOLOGY AT ALL OF THE STOPS WHICH TELLS YOU HOW FAR THE BUS IS AWAY...IM NOT UP THERE MUCH, IS THE SERVICE FREQUENT AND ARE PEOPLE USING IT?
VERY nice. NextBus is a neat system; that may soon be implemented at Blacksburg Transit, which is just next door to the Smart Road. :)
-F.
This is not a SEPTA service, however I had seen a 1990 City Transit map, and the present CART service (managed by the City Avenue Services District and operated by Krap's - uh, I mean Krapf's) operates over parts of former SEPTA route 69 through Lower Merion and into Manayunk. CART originates near the Overbrook Rail Station, then operates via City Avenue and Bala Cynwyd into Manayunk. I haven't really seen that many people taking this bus, but I'm not on City Av as much as I used to be. It would have been better if the City Avenue District had contacted SEPTA before starting this service so that the CART service could accept SEPTA tokens and passes.
WHO ELSE THINKS THAT SEPTA'S SHOPPERS LOOP IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME. IVE RECENTLY MOVED OFF OF LOCUST STREET AND I WORK AT 5TH AND MARKET SO I SEE ALL OF THESE BUSES ALL THE TIME....AND NO ONES ON IT. I THINK A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH THE ROUTING, THERE'S NO REASON TO REALLY CATCH IT BECUASE IT TRAVELS OVER STREETS THAT ALREADY HAVE HEAVY TRANSIT OPTIONS INCLUDING THE EL AND TROLLEY.......
CAN ANYONE THINK OF A BETTER ALTERNATE ROUTING THAT MIGHT GET BETTER PATRONAGE.....IM THINKING OF A LATE NIGHT/EVENING SPUR TO SOUTH STREET FROM 15TH AND MARKET, TRANSIT OPTIONS DOWN THERE PRETTY MUCH SUCK
I agree. There should be more service down and along south st. Anyway, it's interesting that SEPTA's newest buses and only low floors are being used for this almost useless service.
The initial plan was to use the ElDorados. However - depending on which version you believe - (a) Callowhill Depot, which operates the Route 200/SPREE service (formerly Route 76) does not have the proper lifts to maintain the ElDorados or (b) pressure from the Center City District and the City of Philadelphia was high to use the new low floors on the Spree. Either way, I don't see the City supporting this route for more than a year as long as ridership is practically nil.
I think I was the SPREE bus route's only passenger...it was my first ride on SEPTA's newest low-floor...
Yay...(sarcastically) I am SEPTA's SPREE BUS's first and only passenger...and why in the hell is it not free? Maybe if it were free, it might help gete some ridership...I'm not saying that flocks of people and shoppers will start riding this useless bus line, but I think more people will ride it...maybe...Is SEPT too poor to run a route like that free...with these new buses?
And I thought they were supposed to have NABIs at first???
I guess when I saw the Ad about the bus(it showed a NABI), I guess that was what I was expecting...
Carlton
This piece of stupidity was the creation of the Center City District, and the City of Philadelphia. I for one think this the most useless waste of transit service in recent years. This route duplicates so many other routes, and as a person with a Transpass, I can use the first bus that comes along, or even the Subway Surface to get to the shopping areas east of City Hall. As far as Chestnut St Shopping, that street has gone to hell in the last 20 years, its full of tacky discount stores, not the classy, middle class stores that dotted it during the 70`s and early 80's. If they think that they're promoting shopping in Center City by running this stupid route, they're surely doing a putrid job at it. If SEPTA wants to set things right, they'll dump this mistake, and restore the 76 bus to its former route.
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Write for QvDepot.Com?
http://www.qvdepot.com/reporters.html
Remember a couple of months ago, someone on BT posted a message saying that they could not take pics at a Coram (Long Island) of a Green Bus Lines Bus----well the same happened to me but it was a lot nicer. I could not get any pics from the riverhead scrap yard because they are protecting it (terrorist attack frm 9/11). Again, in that scrap yard are ex-NYCTA GMC "New Look" buses that were used in Nassau County (MTA LI Bus), also a good number of ex-QSC GMC RTS-04 buses (mostly 200 series), an ex-MSBA (now MTA LI Bus) Flxible "New Look" 854 and ex-NYCTA GMC RTS-04 buses that were used in Nassau County (MTA LI Bus). I could not get in. I tried standing on a bridge looking over the yard from NYS Route 25 (next to Tanger Shopping Mall) but it was to far and to many trees in the way. Outside the yard, you could see the top of the buses but this about it. That would not be a good picture. Sorry.
Ray
P.S. I wish they could rebuild them so they can use them on Suffolk transit routes r even make more routes for the East End. I estimate about 30 to 35 buses that are still intact, just turn on the engine (If it's still there!---LOL!)
That would be great. If only someone would come along and salvage those buses...I think NYC would really turn on some interest by having a vintage fleet running on regular routes. Perhaps a "Retro Metro Friday" with the fare at the rate of what it was when each bus was built? I always thought that would be a good way to utilize our museum buses here in Roanoke; I just hope that Valley Metro would go for it. Who knows, it just might happen one day.
-F.
That someone was me. I'll be passing the Coram body shop sometime later this month if time permits me that day. If I'm able to stop I'll post a report.
There are now Orions o the S62 from Riverhead to Smithhaven Mall in Lake Grove. It was ALWAYS a Gillig route, now I saw it today as bus 9920 (I think) was racing down on River Rd (NYS 25) going west toward Calverton and then to Lake Grove. Bus 9620 is on the S90 from Riverhead to Quogue and Center Moriches. The S90 and S92 comes from the OMNI (Southampton Depot which is operated by he Hampton Jitney) The S62 comes from I think from Hauppage. That's all.
Ray
Ray, who is the contracted carrier for S-62 and where in Hauppage is the yard? I live about 10 miles from Hauppauge and can possibly get over there and see whats parked there on a Sunday.
I was told that there was a yard in or outside of Hauppauge. I'm not sure about that and I think Suffolk Transit runs the S62 unlike the S92 which is operated by Hampton Jitney.
Ray
Ray----I think you mean Suffolk Bus Corp, a private primarily school bus operator out of Bay Shore. I don't think that Suffolk County, via its Suffolk Transit Agency, actually operates any buses.
I wish the MTA would run the buses out there and Metrocard could be used.
Maybe it's better to just put MetroCard Fare Boxes or a MetroCard Slot to put the MetroCard in next to the Farebox like CT Transit,But they got their own pass systerm.
That would be nice. Buy a $4.00 fun pass and bus as far east as one could go!
No, all those buses have on the side of the buses "OPERATED BY HAMPTON JITNEY" and the Suffolk Transit logo is on the side of the bus as well.
Ray
Wonder where in Hauppauge the yard is? Hampton Jitney operates out of the Omni building in the Hamptons. Granted it is a long way to dead head buses twice a day.
The only yard that comes to mind in the Hauppauge area is that of Towne Bus Corp which is a school bus operation. They had a OTR Charter operation a while back but haven't seen any of their coaches in a long time. Maybe Towne is out of the OTR business and is leasing some space at their yard to HJ
No, I'm confusing you. The buses in Southampton (OMNI) depot are the S90, S92, S94 (summer only) S10A, S10B, S10C, S10D, S10E and S8A. Those buses are operated by the Hampton Jitney. In Hauppauge, I do not know where that yard is by the way. I do not that in North Amityville (Sunrise Hwy - NYS 27 and New Highway - CR 28), that depot has buses operated by a school bus company as well. It's has school buses and ST Gilligs and a few Flxibles. I could not find any Orions in that yard. Maybe I missed it or something.
Ray
That yard in North Amityville/West Babylon is Education Bus. They operate the Suffolk Transit buses as E.B.T., Inc. I think that is due to the fact that the original Education Bus, Inc. sold their operations to someone who now is WYZ, Corp d/b/a Educational Bus and perhaps for legal purposes formed a second corporation to operate the county routes.
That's right. It has been a while since I've been there.!
Ray
I apologize in advance if this is ancient news but a friend of mine sent me this URL which has a press release from Nova Bus concerning the future of the RTS plant in Roswell, New Mexico. http://www.novabus.com/english/PRESS/PRESS.HTM
What a terrible shame. I hope someone comes along and buys the plant; it would be a shame to see such a proven design bite the dust with so many miles left in it. It is a proven bus with much thanks to NYC and the MTA.
-F.
Okay, regular posters will remember I offered complete sets of the old Bus World as well as 1985-on issues of MCA a couple months ago right here in SubTalk for almost next to nothing (whoever wanted them would have paid $20.00 each set for shipping and that was it).
Well, there was a bunch of interest, and both parties that said they would send payment for the shipping flaked out.
So, once again, I am going to offer y'all out there a complete set of the old Bus World and all MCA issues, all you have to do is pay the postage. They are just taking up space in my residence and I never ever refer to them any more.
Reply ONLY via e-mail. If you reply IN HERE IN BUSTALK, you nix yourself out of the offer. There's no need to fill this place up with "Me Too" crap.
I did have all the Motor Coach Today issues, and one regular did pay up right away and give them a home. THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!)
steve,
i would email ya but when i click your email all i get for ur address is "~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~".
i will take the bus worlds. hope you don't disqualify me b/c i answered up on the board due to an email glitch..
Magazines are already spoken for.....sorry. Hopefully those who did get intouch don't flake out. If they do, next stop will be eBay and everyone will pay a price for each issue. No freebies there.
Got a spare?
Blue
Hehehe, no -- I don't even know what I did with my original of that magazine.
(Now we'll get everyone wondering, won't we???)
BOTH SETS ARE GONE.
AMSTERDAM
Bx 3,6 13,15,
M101 101 104
GUN HILL
Bx 1 4 5 8 9 12 14 16 17 22 25 26 27 28 29 30
bX 31 34 36 39 40 42
KINGSBRIDGE
BX 1 2 3 7 9 10 11 13 16 18 20 28 31 32 35 36 39 41
BX 42 55
MOTHER CLARA HALE
BX 19 21 33
M 1,7,30,98,SH
126
M15 31 35 57 66 116
MANHATTANVILLE
M2 3 4 5 18 60 96 101 103 106
HUDSON
M6 8 9 11 14 16 21 22 34
Q32
MICHAEL J QUILL
M10 20 23 27 30 42 50 72 79 86 96 98 101
X90 92
EAST NEW YORK
B7 8 12 14 15 17 20 25 40 42 45,60 82 83
Q24 56
JACKIE GLEASON
B9 11 16 23 35 37 43 51 61 63 65 67 68 69 70 71 75
B 77
FLATBUSH
B2 6 31 39 41 44 46 49 78
FRESH POND
B13 18 20 24 26 38 39 48 52 54 57
Q 54 55 58 59
ULMER PARK
B1 3 4 6
B36 B64 B74
X25 29 37 38 27 28
CASEY STENGEL
Q12 13 14 15 16 20A 20B 26 27 28 32 44 48
Q58 74 76
X51
QUEENS VILLAGE
Q1 2 30 31
Q36 43 46
Q75 79 Q83 88
X68
X32
JAMAICA
Q3 4 5 17 42
Q 77 84 85
X63 64
STATEN ISLAND =NEXT
Bx1, Bx9, and Bx36 DO NOT COME OUT OF GUN HILL, NOT NOW, NOT ANYTIME SOON. NOT EVEN SPLIT ROUTE
In the Bronx, the depots tend to "help out" with each other's spotted (school) trips. Perhaps that is what is meant here.
David
It was posted eariler that the Bx1/2, Bx9, and Bx36 would run as split routes from GH, this is not the case, I do not wish to start a back and forth, and certainly do not mean any disrespect.
Yesterday, I was driving through downtown Silver Spring and spotted Ride-On's #5423 (a 1997 35 foot, Gillig Phantom) operating on route 15. This bus is normally assinged to Gaithersburg (upper county), but there it was last night on the 15 (a lower county route).
Wayne
Shifting for Sunday perhaps? I still can't figure out why they would change the assignments for that bus. Probably on loan. I got 5706 on the 37 in the morning back in June. The 37 is upper-county in the morning.
More than likely, the next 95 Orion 05.502 (35' long x 102" wide) coaches are coming in and Gaithersburg are probably shipping the Gilligs down to Silver Spring (al la Gillig Heaven).
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Excellent. Are any of the super old Gilligs (like 5252 for example) on their way out because of this?
The 5200 series are Orion I's. I think those lower 5300 series (30 footers) Gilligs are the oldest Gilligs in the fleet. They have that strange sounding engine (I don't know who makes it) which seems to be the same engine in the Gaithersburg's 35 foot Gilligs. UMD new '01 Gilligs (also 35 foot) have the same engine.
Wayne
Oops. My bad. I meant 5353 and 5352.
When I heard CBS 2 News back a few months ago. As because of being short of $$$ for 2002. They increase the fares on Suffolk Transit to $1.75($2 with Transfer). And this is the highest fare for transit services in the suburban aeras.
SCT service is pretty awful too, hourly service on most routes and no Sunday service. I've never rode Suffolk Transit.
Personally I think MTA should merge SCT with LI Bus and accept Metrocards (fare $1.50).
Right now school bus companies run various SCT routes. Geesh what a mess!
Yes John. I go to school in Suffolk county. Bus service is horrible.Hourly service on most routes even on peak hours. On Sundays and holidays 50% of the routes don't operate. Some lines have 2 hour headways. SCT should not merge with LI bus. Hell no. LI bus will destroy everything. SCT is ran and financed by the county. It is completely independent of the state, city and MTA even LI Bus. Unless the county approves, SCT will remain the way it is.
Good thing is that they use Orion DD50 engines. Buses are fast too.
SCT is not part of the MTA and should not be.
I used to take the 35 from North Lindenhurst to the Lindenhurst LIRR station. Sometimes it came. Sometimes it didn't. All in all SCT serivice is horrible. These are the last people who should be overcharging. I don't know whether merging it into the MTA would improve anything. Maybe. But LI Bus is really a Nassau operation, isn't it?
:-) Andrew
Do anybody know when I would see a Orion5 on M30? And at what times?
Run X2 and X3 in the AM Rush! There is ONLY 9 Buses on the M30, so it shouldn't be hard to find!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Thanks. And what times in the AM would be a good chance to get one? Around 8:00-9:00 AM? And would it run to 72 St?
When the new MCI's come in, where will the Orion Suburbans at Yukon and Castleton go? CS can't fit anymore Orions, so will those Orions go to QV?
Also, will CS see any MCI's, if so how many?
-----
Will the drought at Fresh Pond ever end? 3 years and still going.
-Jay
All the suburbans (both Nova and Orion) are going to be converted to transit as more MCI Cruisers come in.Also as staed before on this board,Orions were suppose to go to FP back in 93 but unfortunately they were too wide for the bus wash.
#138-a EX Yukon SI Orion V express, was seen by yours truely on the Q32 route going to Penn station. It seems the Orion V hve found a home at cS
Yes they found a home 8 years ago.
I saw 122 on the Q46 yesterday. For those who thought that 122 had local configurations, think again. 517 was also there.
#122 Q46
I saw 126 and 129 at the QV depot. I guess they found a home too.
Ray
Hello. Everone the beeline put out the new Neoplans on the road today!!!!You guys have to check them out!!!
Can't wait to see their snow performance.
These buses are MCI D4000 Cruisers in sheeps clothing, DDC Series 60 Engines with Allsion B500R Transmissions. Quick Take Off, Very Fast Moving! A Delight To Ride!
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Very nice looking bus. Thanks for the photos Trevor. In light of all the problems NYCT DOB has had with the New Flyer artics do you think they would give serious consideration to the AN-460? Is the 20 the only line featuring this bus or are they in service system wide?
The 5, 7, 20/21, 60/61/62 and Playland Routes will see these jewels!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I rode one on the 20 and the 60 on Saturday!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Congrats!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Bus Operator
Rockland Coach
What's with the step up for the rear row?
The seat in the rear is raised to compensate for the engine's size, so they placed the step up so you can get in the seat!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Sweet.
Is this what NJ Transit will be getting also?
CORRECT!!!!
I forget how many NJ Transit now has on order and/or on option, but I recollect the number may be fewer than the number of Volvos now in operation. I had heard that the new Neoplans will be transit versions only, to replace the transit Volvos. The suburban Volvos are supposed to be replaced by D-4500's according to what I heard.
Sorta Correct!
New Jersey Transit ordered 85 Neoplan AN-460 Transliner Articulateds (50 Transit, 35 Suburbans). All of the 35 Suburbans will land at Fairview. Meadowlands is the ONLY garage recieving 45 foot MCI D4501 Cruisers in place of thier Volvo B-10M Articulateds. There is also a option of 70 more artics on the Neoplan order. So yes, there will be Suburbans in the Neo order BUT only for Fairview.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Hey Trevor,
What is the correct way to refer to 2001 and 2002 model MCI buses? While I've heard in here in the past was series + length + year, as in D4500 or E4001, MCI's website still refers to all models with "00" suffixes. Are they even following their own rule about putting the year in the model number? What do the build plates say, "2001 D4500" or "2001 D4501"?
C
Appointment of Models:
Model + Size + Series = D4000 or D4501 or E4500 or J4500
Whenever a model is changed in design be it interior or exterior or mechanical, the last two digits change. I was made aware that the D45 model had a change and that it is now referred to as D4501. As from what I understand the D40 is still the D4000, same for the E4500 -> F3500 -> G4100 & G4500 -> and J4500.
I originally thought that the last two digits meant year, BUT come to find out that MCI adopted the old GMC Style of Modeling (TDM-5301 or TDH-5305) and changes the last two digits according to design alterations (Be It Interior, Exterior or Mechanical).
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Cool, thanks for clearing that up, Trevor. That makes more sense than changing the model designation every year!
C
Cool, thanks for clearing that up, Trevor. That makes more sense than changing the model designation every year!
C
If NJT gets more Neoplan artics, will any come down south? We have a few routes that could use them like the 400, 551, and especially the 553. Particularly the 553, for a rural run, it gets pretty crowded on a daily basis. This route also qualifies for some of the 45 footers, if NJT doesn't want to send artics down south.
I don't think you'd ever see an artic on the 551 or 553, but D4500s would make some sense. I highly doubt any artics would ever head south, since besides the 400, I can't think of too many routes where those buses would make sense. Speaking of which, I've seen a few D4000s out of Washington Township operating on the 400 and 403, bus routes which would normally see Flxibles.
The only other routes in South Jersey I can think of where an artic would make sense would be the 404 out of Newton Avenue, which operates between Philadelphia, Camden, and Cherry Hill Mall via Federal St. During the summer, however, you could make a good case for some of the Atlantic City local routes such as the 507 to Ocean City via Shore Road or even the 552 to Cape May.
Also, I don't know if either Washington Twp, Newton Ave, or Egg Harbor have the proper lifts to maintain artics. That's one reason why some West Philadelphia routes (such as the 21, 42, and 52)operating out of Callowhill don't use artics - Callowhill doesn't have the proper lifts to maintain those buses.
The strange thing is, according to the NJT press release, the Neoplans will only seat 59 (compared to the Volvo's 65 transit and 67 suburban), which means they only have 2 extra seats to show for the extra 15 feet of length over the D4501 (57 seats). Makes sense that Meadowlands would use the MCIs instead - they don't have a route like the 159 which would benefit from the extra standee space and rear door.
so why doesnt NYC buy these buses if they are currently having problems with the Flyer Order? The Neoplans could go to 126th Strett to use on the M15 route-this would be the test depot for them.
Reason: The way Neoplan makes the AN-460 is WAY different than the way New Flyer makes the D60HF. Neoplan uses a steel frame with chassis powered by a DDS60 with an Allison B500R transmission. New Flyer uses an aluminum/fiberglass "chassis-less" frame powered by a DDS50 with an Allison ATEC, both of which are boosted with vitamins to get the thing to move. Thus, the Neoplans are more expensive and take longer to build than the New Flyers, a major factor when NYCT needed about 500 units ASAP and on a short budget. Of course, the result is inferior bus units compared to the toys Liberty Lines/Westchester Cty gets (just compare their Orion Vs to ours, and be sure to use #400-580 & #611-680 as the control group, since they were built in the same year that the Bee-Lines Orion Vs were built).
Hmmmmm.....Not much different from the SEPTA versions. I would like to hear the sound of the engines, SEPTA Neoplans sound like the MTA Flyer artics.
That is because like our (NYCT) New Flyer artics, the SEPTA Neos have the DD Series 50 engine. These new Neos for Westchester have the DD Series 60, and hold the honor of being the very first true transit buses to ever be powered by this plant.
There is 5 Flxible Model 40102-6D "METRO E" Coaches in Baltimore with Series 60s comboed to a ZF Tranny.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I was unaware.
I stand corrected.
How do they sound?
the ddc 50 series is slow on a artic.
Beautiful photos, Trevor.
And a beautiful bus, too!
Let me put it this way: Fordham Rd. is not going to be big enough (if and when the #60/#62 gets the AN-460s on the route) for these and the NF D60HFs.
I saw bus #502 on Tuckahoe Road in Yonkers yesterday.
#3 West End Jeff
I have created a website that shows five new Staten Island-Manhattan express routes that I have proposed, including one that will provide direct bus service to the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail from Staten Island. Take a look and let me know your thoughts.
and how do we do that without a link??
I apologize for the dopey mistake.
www.geocities.com/ja_11203
Are there any NYC 5309's or 5310's still around anywhere or preserved in the NYCTA historic collection?
6000 and 6149 are both in California. Last word on 6149 was that it was beyond hope (thanks to many years of being thrashed ont he streets of New York...)
When did they last run in NYC?
The city used them up until around 1991-92, then a large portion of them were handed over to MSBA, along with several RTS's. The last one to be retired, #5403 was put out of service in May of 1997. MSBA had 6179 for awhile also. For years it was used as a training bus.
MSBA also had 6149 during the early 90's.
Meanwhile, here in NYC, 1971 T6H-5310A #6179 is currently being stored at College Point Yard. It can be seen from the #7 train just before the train enters the portal near the Main Street station.
Mark
6179 is a 1972 model, built in March of that year, serial # 016. The 5309/5310 was produced only in 1972 and 1973.
I knew that, thanks. Bus 6179 is a 1972 model. I was victimized by the ol' typo.
Mark
I own NYCTA 6149. Its a sad sad piece of crap, but original
Who owns this one now? Is College Point Yd. a bus storage lot?
Thanks
Someone in NJ owns 6910 - an ex-NYCTA express Fishbowl - and is still running.
Ask Trevor - he knows who has it and has pictures of it on a tour of SI at the CAS garage.
I recently rode on #4887 on the M6 yestrday. This bus orignally was a express bus out of Yukon and now asigned to Hudson pier. Why dont they send this bus to Ulmer Park. Ulmer Park has #4854-#4872(that were orignally assigned to Castleton). Send #4874-#4879 there as well. This should help Ulmer Park somewhat with bus serivce.
Some 4800s are in FP too. I think 4880-4881 and 4884 are there. Also 4889-4891.
All the other 4800s are split up among the other depots.
#4884 B24
This post assumes two things:
1. Ulmer Park has a bus shortage.
2. Hudson has buses to spare.
I don't believe that either of these assumptions is correct. Would someone WITH FACTS care to comment?
David
Those Suburbans were in Brooklyn. How the hell did most of them get from Brooklyn storage yards to Manhattan. Brooklyn is always left with nothing, I swear, let me change the Brooklyn Division's bus fleet, I would make it a lot more balanced. UP and FP won't be left in the position they are in. The Manhattan Division is a lot more balanced than BK, I hope they keep their 3400's.
-
Will the drought at Fresh Pond ever end? 3 years and still going.
-Jay
Brooklyn has the most buses out of ALL the five boroughs! UP is not under no shortage...just short tempers! With the suburbans on local routes, who knows how many people will cause a bus back up with overcrowding. Also, we all know what the deal with FP is.
Ray
Send more suburbans to UP?
People I know are pissed already they have the Novas on the B64, 1, etc. - b/c the aisle is too tight and a lot of elderly rely on the bus for shopping and have very little place to put their bags.
You're right in that 4854-4899 were originally assigned to Staten Island.
4854-4872 were at CAS but were shipped out when the Orions arrived. 4873-4899 were at YUK. 4873-4888 were converted to soft seaters and left with the Nova & GMC Suburbans when the MCIs arrived. 4889-4891 disappeared to Brooklyn - I don't know why only 3 buses left. 4892-4897 are still at YUK with older GMCs and 8200-8300s TMCs. 4898 and 4899 are in the scrap/storage because their engines were shot and NYCTA didn't want to repower them.
I am assuming there are a lot of operators on here, and this question may have been asked before, but here goes. :) Feel free to answer even if you're not an operator.
Scenario: You are given the opportunity to choose your own route, bus, schedule, depot, kind of passengers, fare, and other slight modifications to your journey.
1) Which route would you choose? If you work for the MTA, it can be a private company if you want, or visa versa. Tell us why.
2) Which bus would you choose? And I am not talking what TYPE. I want to know what specific number. I want ONE special bus, not a particular number RANGE. Tell us why you chose the one you did.
3) What would you prefer your schedule be? How long would you prefer your day was, and what time would you like to start and finish? Make sure your schedule coincides with the route you chose. Why did you choose this time?
4) Let's say that you didn't necessarily have to use the bus depot of the route you rode. Which one would you choose and why?
5) What's the ideal passenger? Don't just say 'clean', give us more detail,a nd include some more personality traits, and even physical features with brief explanations.
6) What do you think is a reasonable fare to charge? Soemthign that you think is seriously enough to cover costs and not make your riders broke.
7) What other modifcations would you make? Nothing too drastic like turning your chair into a couch. Just any other slight modifcations to the bus, the route, other Metrocard capabilities or payments options or what have you. Tell us why.
I hope my questions are reasonable. Thank you for your time.
1-Route S79-Yukon Depot Route.
2-#7560-The Orion VII-it looks much better condition then other buses assigned to this garage.
3-afternoon (4p-12a)-you primarally get the people returning home after a long day at work. By this time, most of the stores are closing. The traffic lightens up the later it gets.
4-Yukon. Nice garage. Ulmer Park is the one i like the best but the S79 does not operate from that garage.
5-One who pays their fare and has a pleasent atmosphere when riding my base. He/She may ask questions.
6-$1.50 is fair during peak hours-but would definately charge $1.00 during off peak to get more riders to ride the bus.
7-Make my route go 24 hours. There is no bus service Crossing Staten island during 1a-5a(to go between North to South Shore).
I am not a driver-just a fan of buses.
B1-#4765
I will not go ignored. I will be HEARD. :p
My fantasy is to pull into "WMATAGMOAGH" bus stop 19 minutes late, then take a 20 minute bathroom break and enjoy a smoke.
;-)
LMFAO!!!!
Just make sure you socialize on that break as well!
Better yet Pull in 5 minute before pull out, sit in the drivers seat (in view of the passengers) with the bus on, eating my donut and drinking my chocolate milk and not pulling off till 5 minutes after departure time!
RCBO.........
Don't worry, by that time the next bus will have come, gone, and will be back 10 minutes later and you can read my post on BusTalk in the evening.
I think not. You see, the person I'll be socializing with is my follower. If you know anything about NYCT B/O's, you KNOW we don't pass our leaders into a terminal unless directed by supervision.
I'm sure, my follower knowing you, would be in no rush to board you either. Suffice to say, his coffee would be my treat, while we sip them together inside my bus (eating Trevors donuts) watching you pace up and down the stop checking your watch and writing down numbers.
Who's to say the follower bus wouldn't take a personal either? We've all dealt with 'problem passengers' before, and know how to correct the situation post haste.
By the book :-)
I really wish you were my passenger.
LOL! Hit 'em hard Brooklyn, I wish we'd were leader/followers together with WMATA as our passenger. We'd get a good laugh that day.
RCBO....
I'd like to join you guys, but I'd be too busy rolling out of the terminal with a Deadhead sign, leaving WMATA and heading down the street so I can leave the people like QTraindash7 in the bus stops, and tossing the people around in the stepwells who think they're entitled to several minutes of pocket-mining as they search for their pass or fare!
But if you wouldn't mind guys, save me a donut, unless I can stop at the Chicken Shack enroute to get a 3 piece while displaying the wrong sign, and refusing to issue a transfer or continuation to my helpless victims!
Oh, and when you do come back in service, despite being late, make sure to drive REAL slow. We really hate that. And when you see a connecting bus people want to catch, take your time stoppiung your bus, that way the connecting bus will have ample time to pull off leaving a throng of angry passengers. When the connecting buses' passengers come running for you, gun the bus up to the red light. They'll come running after you and knock on the door, signal that they can't get on and watch in glee as they curse you through the door.
As a reward for your good work, stop at the nearest fast food joint, park your bus right in front of the window and go place your order. That way, the passengers that were fortunate enough to catch your bus will be late anyway and will fume silently as they clearly see you socializing and flirting with the cashier at your local KFC.
Then and ONLY then can you call yourself a master bus driver. Good luck. :-)
He won't make his connecting bus, because I'll have already shut off the bell, put up a Limited sign, and let him off where I felt he could have the most time to reflect upon his BusTalk comments..
I really think he'd be in trouble if Trevor and I were leader/follower.
Seriously though, we don't always show a lack of concern for our customers. It's when some pompous ass thinks he has all the answers and knows it all that we need to set him straight. You'd think that someone who deems himself a "transit buff" would know a little something about 'transit'. Not only that, but because he IS a buff, fan, whatever, you'd think he would have that much more compassion and understanding for the position, and understand just how difficult a job it really is, without adding to the chaos.
I've met one bustalker from here and he's a dynamite guy (you know who you are). He's been on my bus on deadheads, on layovers, and in service. He 'always' waits in line, never confuses friendship with professionalism by not paying, and is always curtious to the people. It's people like HIM that make my job easier.
Anyway, we deal with problem passengers all the time. Problem passengers are discussed at meal time, or in passing between operators and we decide the best course of action to take. I'm sure that you have all these complaints because your regular operators are 'dealing with you', and we can all plainly see why.
You're lucky you're not mine...
Maybe you haven't realized this but my original post was not about the MTA or whatever agency you work with. The way the route that started this discussion works is that it is a group of people who ride daily and expect certain standards of service. We don't wish to stare at a bus for 10 minutes while the driver goes off to wherever he decides to go. Considering the location of this terminal, there is no fast food, no shops, no quiet places to sit and read the paper, etc. Your only option is to pull out of the station and pull over on the road that leads back into the station. I respect your want of a quiet, peaceful, break because you probably do deserve it. But, as I have said, there are ways to do this without confusing people, making them mad, etc. Perhaps, if you don't want to be bothered by some passenger who doesn't know when the bus is leaving, you should remove yourself from the situation. After all, the passenger can't ask a question when you aren't there. I've seen plenty of drivers in the agency in question do this. They drop off passengers, go somewhere, and show up again about 2 minutes before departure. What can I say? There isn't a bus to get on, so I can't complain of being left in the cold. The driver wasn't rude or unhelpful. The bus simply wasn't there, so I waited. Get my drift?
Enjoy your break, but don't complain about being bothered because you left the bus right in the stop when it is 30 degrees out and the sun has yet to rise and you changed your destination sign already.
>>>Anyway, we deal with problem passengers all the time. Problem passengers are discussed at meal time, or in passing between operators and we decide the best course of action to take. I'm sure that you have all these complaints because your regular operators are 'dealing with you', and we can all plainly see why.<<<
I hope you aren't directing that at moi? I'm FAR from a "problem passenger." Even when the same bus driver makes me late for work/school numerous days in a row, do I complain? Nope. Not a word is said to him/her.
I think you all do it differently out there in NYC. Down here bus drivers form patterns based on what they want to do, not based on a "problem passenger." If a Houston driver wants to be late, he will be late every day, every run, and every route he works. No passenger dictates that. If he wants to run hot he will run hot every day, every run, and every route. If he wants to adhere to the schedule and guidelines for operating the bus he will every day, every run, and every route, passenger(s) not withstanding.
Also, as far as layovers go,here, I believe you can report bus drivers if they decide not to let you in during adverse weather conditions and they are parked at a bus stop with passengers. In fact, I think you can report them if they just refuse to let you on at a marked bus stop. I've seen very few drivers on layover not open up the doors and let passengers in though the trend is growing. Despite the "nuisance" of having to deal with passengers, our bus drivers are very friendly, knowledgable, enjoy the job, and do an overall great job.
Oh, and a last word, do you ever think that "dealing with" one problem passenger could cause inconveiniences for many other "dynamite" passengers? Why let one bad apple spoil the bunch? Besides, passengers have ways of "dealing with" bad bus drivers. Houston has a good record of weeding out any undesrieable elements to the passengers, drivers included.
LOL, no. I wasn't directing my comments to you. I already posted how I operate elsewhere in the [103] thread of John's. This is directed to Oren, and his attitude in his original postings. The result of a snowballing of replies.
:P
....Oh. Well, forget you read that.
Read what?
>>> Anyway, we deal with problem passengers all the time. Problem passengers are discussed at meal time, or in passing between operators and we decide the best course of action to take. <<<
I hope you do not think discussing problem passengers is in some way unique to B/Os. It is true of any occupation that must deal with the public and must restrain themselves from letting their customers know their real feelings, from police officers to retail clerks to ministers or hotel workers. We all have our crosses to bear, so it is possible for an outsider to understand and empathize with the frustrations of your job.
Tom
That's exactly my point. Our passengers are just as much a part of our day, as whatever it is that you and anyone else must deal with during your work day. The only difference is, my desk seems to be an open invitation to deposit expired Metrocards, while your desk is hidden safely behind your cubicle (offered as a general example only).
We discuss customers all the time. Not only problem passengers, but the extra kind and compassionate as well. We also discuss the buses, routes, traffic, lights, dispatchers, etc within our "line group". Most of us usually pick the same route, and know the regular passengers, even though we may pick different schedules. Many times we'll chat and say, "Hey, do you get that sweet lady who always..." or "Do you get that pain in the @$$ at..."?
Keep in mind I am NOT a B/O. I can only see things from the perspective of a passenger and this what I can see, understand, and post. Maybe they were legitimate reasons for why they couldn't leave on time but from what I could tell, there were none. We passengers are human too and we don't like waiting in the cold or rain for very long periods of time when you park your bus right in front of us. Obviously, we can't complain about not being allowed on a bus not at a stop. I, as a passenger, would rather you park the bus a few feet away from the actual terminal stop so we actually know you are on your break and we can understand that. Buses at the stops themselves are invitations to board, we don't want to get there and discover we have to wait in the rain.
Keep in mind I am NOT a B/O.
Do I strike you as someone who has you confused with a fellow operator? I thought I'd made myself abundantly clear that I find you to be a problem passenger with an arrogant and pompous attitude, and less knowledge of 'transit' than most 'transit buffs'.
I can only see things from the perspective of a passenger and this what I can see, understand, and post.
There are other passengers here who have a great deal of understanding. Probably because they ask *questions* rather than post bitchy and whiny crap.
Maybe they were legitimate reasons for why they couldn't leave on time but from what I could tell, there were none.
Legitimate reasons are mine. You just wait for your bus. Legitimacy is not your call, nor is it something that needs your acceptance or approval. Get a grip, Oren.
We passengers are human too and we don't like waiting in the cold or rain for very long periods of time when you park your bus right in front of us.
Why are you at the stop so early in the first place? Or has the leader bus had enough of your whining that he leaves just as you approach, thereby leaving you to wait a full headway for the next bus, who forces you to wait in the elements. Don't you think that you've been the topic of discussion inside the depot bathroom? I do. You're now reeling the effects of being a big mouthed know nothing.
Obviously, we can't complain about not being allowed on a bus not at a stop.
Seems to me you complain about everything.
I, as a passenger, would rather you park the bus a few feet away from the actual terminal stop so we actually know you are on your break and we can understand that.
Well, I, as an operator, would rather I park my bus in a bus stop where I am held harmless should an accident happen to my parked vehicle.
Buses at the stops themselves are invitations to board.
Open doors, with an operator in the seat is an invitation to board. Anything less dictates you stand there and wait.
We don't want to get there and discover we have to wait in the rain.
Bring an umbrella. And if you move to Queens, $10 for car service.
Brooklyn67 - It's too bad that this thread had to go this way, but I think you (and the others) have done an excellent job of defending the B/O position. I'm not a B/O, and I won't pretend to know what the job is like, but I do realize it's not easy and can be quite stressful. I know I don't like it when someone tries to tell me about my job and how to do it. I do appreciate the job you all do - and I just wanted to add my 2 cents to basically say... We're not all against the B/O's.
Wayne
Actually, I think the thread ran rather well. Those who thought they had all the answers quickly realized they didn't. If they were mature and sincere enough, they'd ask questions rather than offer silly uneducated replies.
Also, we're not all against the passengers. Most of us who've tagged this thread probably act professionally and responsibly, without the added sarcasm indicated above.
We all thank you for the supportive post :-)
[Mental note: Don't flag Wayne]
My fantasy would be operating the bus in heavy rain, then seeing WMATAGMOACH standing near the curb in a bus stop alone with a large puddle in front of him.....
I'll leave the rest for Brooklyn67 to fill in.
BIG AL
Sorry for the delay but Chatham Square is open tonight. Please point your browsers to www.subtalklive.com.
I saw this movie and it's Verry Good. One Night it shows a MUNI New Flyer D40HF #8926 on the 22 Line and Mrs.Doubtfire got on it and put in a $1 Bill into the Farebox and sat down on the side seat. Then the next night it was anouther D40HF she got on. This time it was #8922 on the 22 Line and it also show a New Flyer Logo in the front and she put in $1 Bill in the farebox and sat on the Single Front Faceing Seat on the door side of the bus and the driver saw her legs.
Now this movie have Verry Pretty girls in it. The contestents that was in a contest for Miss USA have to board a Small Trolley Bus painted in Red and Green and Woodtone. And Poor Miss New Jersey fall to the ground before she got on that bus and then fell again on the steps and it showedthe inside with a Farebox that looks like the Slopeback Fareboxes that Baltmore MTA and LA Metro uses and the bus pulled off turning from the hotel onto a street and the side show that it was run by United States EXPRESS.
Do anybody know what routes are running the 30 Foot Flxibles in Baltmore?
Hey There - sorry for the slow reply to this post, but I'm just seeing it.
For the most part, the Baltimore 30 Foot Flxibles see more and more limited service.
Bush Street Yard: 3 active coaches, largely inactive since the discontinuance of Route 30- In the AM, they may be used for the #31 line trips to Harlem Park Middle, while in the PM, all 3 can usually be spotted working the #47 from Southern High School.
Eastern Avenue Yard: 5 active coaches. May be used as and if needed on the #24 line, requiring one coach. The others may be used on late peak school trippers, primarily on the #49 line service, but may also see service into Lake Clifton in the AM.
Kirk Avenue Yard: 2 active coaches. Primarily used on Route #50 shuttle, but not guaranteed, as 9200's have been often spotted there recently. Otherwise, a possible sight on the #15 into Lake Clifton HS in the AM.
Northwest Bus Garage: 8 active coaches. Used largely on route #M10, and to some degree on route #M12 as well, though may fill in as needed on school trippers when short, often on the #46 line service. Also spotted with growing frequency on the Hampden and Mondawmin Shuttlebug services when there are not enough Thomas buses running to meet the service needs.
Hope this is what you're looking for!
Thanks. I got some questions that I think you could answer.
1. Don't it get PACKED with 30 Foot's on School Tripers?
2. Is the 50 Line runs anywhere near the Zoo?
3. Do they see service on any other route like the 14,17,77 for example?
4. Would the 30 Foot Flxibles from Northwest Garage run the M10 on Sundays?
Thanks for answering! :)
Answers...
1 - It can get packed using a 30 footer on school trippers, but I'm sure some of the kids will avoid using that bus (they'll tend to go to a school service that has multiple coaches on the same route), particularly for the one door. Besides, when you're in a crunch, a 30 footer holds a lot more than no bus at all.
2 - The 50 line runs nowhere near the Zoo, it's a neighborhood line in Northeast Baltimore, while the Zoo is in Northwest Baltimore. I think you might be asking this because of coach #8760, which is wrapped with a Baltimore Zoo Shuttle advertising, for an ill fated seasonal shuttle that ran from 1998 to 2000 during Summer Months. During the off season, the wrap remained, and still does, and for 1998 at least, the coach was a regular sight on the #50 line, and photos probably exist of it there as well.
3 - While the 14 or 17 MAY see a "polo pony," I doubt one would venture onto the heavy #77 line. But faced with the lack of anything else, theoretically, a 30 footer can turn up anywhere.
4 - YES. I cross paths with the M10 on my run every Sunday, and it is always a 30 footer, typically 8751 or 8752.
Thanks.
One Question. What do you mean by a "polo pony"?
Just a little nickname the coaches sometimes get,
Shorties,
Ponies,
Babies,
Little pieces of crap,
etc.
What model of that bus you mean by that?
Caught the end of this flick last night. Robert De Niro plays a catatonic patient at a psychiatric hospital in the Bronx in 1969. Robin Williams plays Dr. Sayer who tries to bring him out of the state with a combination of drugs. De Niro becomes friends with a young girl who is visiting another relative. He waves goodbye to her from a window as she walks to a bus-stop.
Waiting at the stop is a GMC Fishbowl, but it is not in MTA colors. The bus is a faded light green and an emblem on the side that looked like it could be from a PST bus from New Jersey.
Another Hollywood lack of detail since the hospital in in a territory that is only servicecd by NY Transit, except for NYBS or LL ant the bus didn't look like either of those.
I know what scene you are talking about and that color scheme is from GBL in the late 70's when they stared eliminating the green and red scheme.
How many New Looks are still around that are not in the Historic Collection? Too bad a 5309 or 5310 is not preserved.
Steve Hoskins may clarify this one. Did Mr Joplin or Mr Cantos ever get a 5309/ 5310 in their respective collections? For the other posters, these "collectors" are in California. Both collections worth seeing.
joe c
Isn't there a private collector in the area who preserved New Look #6910(1972 T6H-5310).
There are a few. One collector is in NJ. Another in the HArtford area, Double A bus lines. They run line service but also maintain a terrific collection of buses.
Mr. Joplin got 6000. As for 6149...."gmartic" who posts here has (had??) it.
Hello group.
This is Mr.Blue here in LA with some interesting info for anyone interested.
I was involved with Gmartic this weekend in his contract for hauling people around this small shuttle route at the LA Auto Show.
Of the total 10 buses he had two in use that bieng the Missasauga GM Articulated 5034 and former SCRTD TMC RTS 06 #2363.
I had a total blast photographing and riding the buses as did the riding public.
The 5034 quickly gained the term of "The Train" from many passengers as the bus would load and unload upwards of 175 to 200 people within a 30 second dwell time.
The other buses involved operated by the Flying Burrito Brothers got wise to this and let us do all the work while they broke down or forgot to pick people up.
Also it was fun riding the TMC (Amazing LA dumps 1990 vintage TMC 06's while NYCTA rebuilds them!!!!) with a fun driver. I even serviced two wheelchairs when acting as loader on this bus.
Even this bus held some capacity loads.
It was interesting to see the other involved buses and it was truly a busfans dream.
This happens again this coming weekend and may involve more vintage buses. I may try to get Gmartic to use a NY one but we shall see.
Hopefully everyone on the East coast is keeping Busy.
Blue in LA
I know an artic can hold a lot of people, but 175 to 200! Did you stack them on the roof too?!?!?!?!
The Flying Burrito Brothers?????
It should also be noted that Queens Transit Co bus #8 was working but was a failure as the company that leased the buses from me kind of put "invisible fuel" into it. The guy swears he put 20 something gallons in it and it was full. Amazing........ fuel didnt even drip out when the plug at the bottom of the tank was pulled. It should operate this next weekend in the metaillc NYCTA green scheme. Also... 5285 and 3907 will be replacement buses for some of this charter companys less than desireable neoplans.
#8 was actually a Steinway Transit bus. During the time that Queens/Steinway Transit operated separate fleets - Steinway buses always had the lower fleet numbers.
Wayne
Does anyone have any pictures of this bus in service for Steinway?
I would be interested to see any pics of TA 2363 GMC RTS thanks.
Blue
Yes and no. There's a Steinway GMDD Fishbowl (I think it's #17) on this site taken by J. Testagrove in the "Other Bus Pages" Manhattan section, probably Queens too. I say yes and no because the first few of Steinway's GMDD T8H-5307A's (I forget the exact numbers, perhaps #'s 3-10) were not painted in the regular Queens/Steinway Transit Orange/Cream paint scheme. They had a rather wild paint scheme in which the basic colors were yellow/white with thin red/green lines and black window outline. They also had the words "AIR RIDE" just in front of the entrance door near the bumper.
Wayne
[because the first few of Steinway's GMDD T8H-5307A's (I forget the exact numbers, perhaps #'s 3-10) were not painted in the regular Queens/Steinway Transit Orange/Cream paint scheme. They had a rather wild paint scheme in which the basic colors were yellow/white with thin red/green lines and black window outline.]
I believe the Steinway buses with the odd paint job were #3-8. As I remember, these buses were originally produced for another operator, but delivery was not taken. I think it was an operator in Wisconsin, Minnesota or Canada, and the paint scheme was that of the operator who rejected delivery. My recollection is also that the seats in #3-8 were more suburban than transit. Buses #9 and higher, delivered later, had the usual Steinway/Queens Transit paint scheme and seating.
Thanks for the info. on Steinways' GMDD #3-8. Your info makes perfect sense to me.
Wayne
I'm going to guess that the operator that they were painted for was ROCHESTER CITY LINES of Minnesota, as it matched what they already had. I always wondered why the Steinway buses got the paint job, that explanation makes sense that they were not delivered to RCL.
[I'm going to guess that the operator that they were painted for was ROCHESTER CITY LINES of Minnesota, as it matched what they already had.]
Steve, Rochester City Lines rings a definite bell. I am quite sure that you are right!
Steinway # 8 has a really nice interior with deep padded seats like an RTD 1000.
Blue
OK kitty-cats the Auto Show Shuttle runs again this weekend here in LA with additioanl new looks.
Reports will follow the festvities that begin today.
Blue
Hello-
This s Blue in LA with a quick rumble.
Today I was with our own Gmartic on his GM Artic and as we operated the Auto Show Shuttel here with all vintage equipment that boasted:
A 1961 TDH 5301
A 1976 GMC 4523A
A 1981 GMD 5307 Steinway #8
A 1990 TMC RTS 06
And the mothership GMD Artic #5034
And other assorted vintage buses.
However the main group of LA fans passed us by in 1998 Neoplan CNG 6519 (One of several hundred in operation by MTA and not a noteworthy unit) and seemed to petrified to ride along.
Now if you had the choice would you ride the Neoplan or teh assortment of retored and one only buses?
Awaiting replys,
Blue in LA
>>> the main group of LA fans passed us by in 1998 Neoplan CNG 6519 (One of several hundred in operation by MTA <<<
Hey, those are car fans, not bus fans. They recognized the MTA livery and went to what they know. I was in the downtown area last weekend on the Blue Line, and again on a 439 Bus headed toward Redondo Beach, and saw some of the veteran buses, including the one in RTD livery. I had planned to stop and possibly ride one or more of the buses, but I was not going to the auto show, and there was so much congestion in the area I decided to pass.
Tom
Whaddya expect, most of those LA bus fans have absolutely NO taste!!!
(Or brains, either....)
HAHA good show Mr.Steve!
Blue
Those fans rode those shuttles the first weekend of the auto show.
Why are you so pissed that they didn't ride the 2nd weekend?
And besides, those shuttles were whaaay too jammed with people to enjoy any kind of ride on them *anyway*.
The auto show seemed interesting. But before the autoshow ... I recall scottie sent a email to some of us stating that these vintage buses were to be used to transport people to/from the convention ctr to the parking lot. I did not wanna interfere with scottie, tony, and the other people driving the shuttle buses. I took a picture or 2 of the shuttle buses. i respect all of you that attended the auto show and all ... but c'mon .. theres gotta be more than just riding the auto show buses just for the hell of it. One day is ok ... maybe 2 if youre really bored .... but like i stated earlier the reason why I chose not to bail at the convention ctr is that i didnt wanna interfere with those that were operating the ASS and I congratulate the ASS operators for a job well done
eddie a.
Maybe they just wanted to ride with a friend.
Funny how all you guys clain to know Mr. Blue's personally but when it comes to this you take his side and you don't get the whole story. I was at work when this happen. These people don't talk to you when you ride the shuttles anyway and its B-O-R-I-N-G riding around in circles even in vintage equipment with people who don't talk to you. Not only that. This is all a show becuase Blue is still mad at what happen with the fans and him last year. He wishes he could've been with those people on the Neoplan instead of the vintage equipment. Since he wasn't he got upset and now we have this brewing again. You guys who claim to not like blue what happened to listening to the whole story before making judgements.
I could hardly be considered bitter.
I find the waring fandoms laughable, and I am really not concerend who is presently at war.
All in all "We" had fun.
Wow maybe when I grow up I will be just like them.....
Blue
you didn't answer my question though ...
Why are you so pissed that the fans decided to ride with me on a brand new 1998 neoplan 6516 instead of with you on "restored buses!!!!"
----------
I could hardly be considered bitter.
I find the waring fandoms laughable, and I am really not concerend who is presently at war.
All in all "We" had fun.
Wow maybe when I grow up I will be just like them.....
Blue
I dont even understand what this is all about and really dont care. Everybody knows the buses were out there and whoever chose to ride them was welcome. Those who didnt??? who cares?? Busprowler said it perfectly.. maybe they just wanted to ride with a friend. Every bus was jammed with over capacity loads. It was hard to chat with the people that did come out as the main concern of mine was the safety of all my equipment. The stress for me was enormous. I had a few drivers that werent exactly ready for the thousands and thousands of people that rode and that was a major concern for me. Not to mention I didnt want to look bad with a breakdown. We had no breakdowns and none of my buses missed a trip. Unfortunately we had to take up the slack for the FBB's many problems. For those that chose not to ride for whatever reason...... this brewing "jihad" has nothing to do with me. Its between Blue and the others and dont think the thread should have ever been posted here anyway. Blue was very important in assisting the other drivers and to help me from flipping out many times. I can honestly say after having one bus crashed into twice while it was not even moving, if it wasnt for Blue.... I would have taken what was left of my TMC and ran it ran these ignorant people down. Lets hope this is the end of this thread............
I hope so as well. All was going well til Blue decided to post this mess on the board in front of a national audience. This matter should have been handle personally between Blue and the people he had problems with. I just don't like having people I know thrashed on a national board because someone has a problem with someone else. If you have a problem with someone. Be a man and settle it with that man you have a problem with. Don't spread stuff in front of an audience who doesn't know what is going on with this. I am glad everything went well for you gmartic. I heard your buses did well at the Auto Show. I hope that whatever problems that Blue and the other fans can be settled between them and not on this board. This is suppose to be a hobby exchange here. Thank You.
END OF THREAD.
This forum is too good for this.
Well....off to New York I go. My train leaves in a few hours.
Awww! The New York experience....See you soon D60LF
You do want to be just like them. Isn't that the reason you started this thread in the first place?
The "not a noteworthy unit" in question ...
osted by Mr.Blue on Sun Jan 13 03:06:11 2002, in response to , posted by on Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969.
However the main group of LA fans passed us by in 1998 Neoplan CNG 6519 (One of several hundred in operation by
MTA and not a noteworthy unit) and seemed to petrified to ride along.
Now if you had the choice would you ride the Neoplan or teh assortment of retored and one only buses?
Awaiting replys,
Blue in LA
I would rather ride the restored buses and relive the moments. It doesn't hurt taking a Flxible Metro for a ride.
Speak to our mutual friend in San Diego, I think I actually gave him a slide of it....
Hey Steve-
The "Flying Burrito Brothers" (DBA Los Borachos Inc) is the name we have given to the outfit that blew up our bus 1415 while under lease.
This s run by a former Santa Monica operator who has a fleet of broken down former RTD/MTA Neoplans, etc.
No two "Repainted" buses are in the same paint scheme.
Thats only the beginning.
Blue
Good luck getting to work this morning!
I'm here on the other side of the picket line.
Lots of "members" walking the line & a couple of "Hawks" still to come in.
Mr rt__:^)
From http://www.qsbus.com:
We regret to inform our passengers that this morning, January 7th at 5:00AM, our unionized employees walked off the job without notice. There will be no bus service today. If there are any changes we will update this message.
How can they print such falsehoods? Queens Surface operators have been working without a contract for over a year now, and gave ample warning to management well over three weeks ago that they might strike at any moment if a deal wasn't reached.
I think the union showed great compassion for their ridership via maintaining service throughout the holiday season, while working without a contract and without parody of their "blue brothers".
1010 WINS reported that "the strike was supposed to commence a bit later in the week. However, when Queens Surface drivers reported to work this morning, they found out that in the event of a strike, NYCT would cover the routes. So it was decided to get one step ahead of NYCT and strike now"...........The only way for the NYCT to cover the routes would be to pull some buses off their own routes and put them on private routes. There would be a few extra buses and drivers on extra board to be used as well, but practically speaking, NYCT could only operate a fraction of the service without impacting their own routes. For purposes of union solidarity, this would put NYCT drivers in a very precarious position. They would refuse overtime if it entails being a strike breaking scab. If already on duty and ordered to run on a private route and they refuse, the driver could get taken out of service and dragged downtown on charges of insubordination. TA drivers could be penalised under the Taylor Law. Also, TA drivers in the Brooklyn division are represented by TWU Local 100, the same union which represents drivers at the 3 striking companies. These TA drivers operate routes like the Q54/56/58/59 and others which run in the same neighborhoods as the routes which are not operating. Drivers for Green are represented by a different union, the same which represents drivers at the Queens Division depots. These drivers do not want to be scabs either.
The part in quotes I was para-phrasing. I wanted to seperate the what was reported and my own analysis/opinion.
NYCT bus operators cannot cover those lines. It would be a violation of our own contract, as well as a safety hazzard. Not to mention that before an operator can run a route, there must be a form of line training.
Even if we could, we don't have enough buses or operators. I certainly wouldn't operate a QS route. If ordered to do so, I'd go sick off run immediately.
So Green Lines didn't join the strike?
I'm not sure why these private bus companies are still in business when they have never been as good as the NYCT routes.
:-) Andrew
That is becasue they are followinf the rules set forth by the city DOT. They are not allowed to add service on their own.
There will be no limited Q-46 service throughout the duration of the strike by Queens Surface unionized operators. All buses will run local, regardless of the posted schedule.
However, we will stop ONLY at our bus stops on Union Turnpike, and not at the designated QSC bus stops.
At this time, there is NO Q-46 service to North Shore Towers, although that could change via the Glen Oaks branch.
They're back as of about 11:30 AM.
I'll leave it to the union to comment on why they went out/what they got or didn't for 1/2 half a day.
Expect normal service for evening rush hour at QSC.
Disclaimer: I am N-O-T a official spokesperson for nycDOT, the Mayor's office of my employeer.
Mr rt__:^)
There may be another walkout Wednesday from what I heard. Meetings will resume then.
#369 Q66
#671 Q18
M6 Southbound
via regular to Eastbound 57 st 5 av,34 st Broadway SB and Regular
M7 Southbound
via SB on Columbus Av,9 av,34 st,Broadway southbound
M10 Southbound
regular to 66 th street, Columbus Av,9 av,34 st,,7 Av,southbound
M10 Northbound
regular to 34 st,10 Av,50 st,8 av,and regular
M20 Northbound
regular to 34 st,10 av,50 st,,8 Av
M20 Southbound
regualr to 66 st,,Columbus Av,9 av,34 st,7 av and SB
M16 Westbound
regular to 10 Av,42 st,to 9 av and terminate
M16 eastbound
south on 9 av,from temporary stand and regular
M42 westbound
regular to 5 av,34 st,10 av,42 and regular
M42 eastbound
regular to 9 av,34 st,Madison av,42 st eastbound
M27 eastbound
from Temporary stand via west on 42 ,10 av,57 st,5 av,50 st,eastbound and regualr
m50 westbound
regular to Madison av,57 st,9 av,49 st and regular
M50 eastbound
regualr to 10 av,57 ,5 av,50 st and eastbound
M104 southbound
regular to 57 st,5 av,42 st, and eastbound
m104 Northbound
regualr to 6 av,57 st,8 av and regular
x1 southbound
south on 7 av,57 st,5 av and regular
January 1
Mayoral Inauguration
City Hall
M22 westbound
regualr to Worth st,West Broadway , Chamber st,westbound,and regular
While walk though Jackie Gleason last night, I walk past the Viatage bus line. I saw that they get Grumman bus # (I think) 251. When did they get it. Last time I saw it, it was a Gum Hill. I almost forgot what one looked like. They were some nice looking buses.
Robert
Is bus #251 in good condition? I thought that bus was in New Jersy as a NJ Transit bus?
Ray
The Grumman is #236. I have a very good picture of it that i took from the last Road Show in staten Island. I remember when Ulmer Park ahd them. I do miss them.
#9317-NOVABUS-B64
Isn't this bus in the Transit Museums collection?
NYCT's only Grumman is 236. Could that be it?
David
Possibly but there is even word of a 9000 Series Flxible in hiding somewhere, I don't know how true it is, but if it is true, I WANNA SEE IT!!!!
Trevor Logan
Bus Operator
Rockland Coach
Isn't there a 9000 Flxible at Crosstown?
Yeah, I think it's 9053 at Crosstown!
Ray
Grumman Flxible bus 251 became bus 2193 with NJ Transit after it was rebuilt. I thought that bus number looked familiar. I saw that bus on the New York Times reel-to-reel newspaper in my library (February 8th, 1984) at the Brooklyn Navy Yard with Grumman Flixble bus 856.
Ray
Can anybody confirm that there really is a 9000 series Flxible someplace, possibly at Crosstown? I never heard of any 9000's surviving after 1994 and this would really be a tresure if it's intact and in good shape. I always thought this finale run of '77 Flxible New Looks were the best Flxible New Looks Transit ever had and if somebody can confirm there is a survivor out there, I'll be there the same week with camera in hand, and probably asking for a test drive also.
BIG AL
the last time i saw one was #9178-orignally assigned to Coney Island for Police officers, it saw its final days at Ulmer Park. This was in 1993 or 1994-i have the picture of this bus but not sure when he was there.
I hope it's true. It would have been a sin to not preserve at least ONE of that distinctive #9000-9300 series Flxible New Look package for NYCT.
Does anyone what one. I just got 100 from somewere. (Can't say were.) E-Mail me and I will give more info on how I can send them to you.
Robert
I just ckecked to seed if the link work it did not. So this is my new E-Mail Address is r.g.mencher@verizon.net
Robert
Have they been in limited supply? While waiting for a 1 train on Tuesday, I spotted one sitting unattended just outside fare control, so I reached out and claimed it. It was empty but it didn't look like it had been used much.
Why is metrocard.citysearch.com advertised on the card?
NJ Transit approved a fare hike and new fare policy at it's Board Meeting today. Follow the link to get more details.
Oh Well, It was bound to happen. A decade of a steady base fare was great, but this was a long time coming, and we'll adjust.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Bus Operator
Rockland Coach
Have they released the specifics yet?
Most interesting was the elimination of the 126/Bridge Plaza "one zone" fares to NYC, now reverting to the standard interstate fare. By law, the state line must be a zone change for an interstate carrier, and for NJT, that's the middle of the Hudson River. The fares for the 126 and Bridge Plaza got around this by being labelled as "special" fares.
Trevor, any word on whether Rockland will match NJT's lead on returning Bridge Plaza to GWBBS trips to a standard 2-zone interstate trip?
Well, while in training today, we mentioned that NJT was getting a fair hike, nothing about Rockland!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Bus Operator
Rockland Coaches
[Most interesting was the elimination of the 126/Bridge Plaza "one zone" fares to NYC, now reverting to the standard interstate fare.]
Regarding the change in fare for the #126, interestingly Academy recently raised its fare on the Hoboken-PABT run from $1.25 to $1.50, which brought it at the NJ Transit fare level. If the #126 fare goes up to approx. $2.10 on April 1st, then Academy will have a real advantage, even if Academy chooses to raise its fare slightly above the current $1.50. Sounds like the #126 riders are getting hit much harder than the average NJ Transit customer (40% fare increase).
Why was there a discount on the 126?
Why does the law require a zone change at the state line?
I think the discount was to compete with the Red Apple service, taken over by Academy in 1998 or 99, which is a carbon copy of the #126.
The Academy service (not numbered) used to be $1.00 local, $1.25 to NYC. Now I think it's $1.50 to the city.
IIRC, the Academy routing between Hoboken and PABT operates on a different cross street than the NJT 126 service (I can't recall the street names off the top of my head).
So what they're saying is that now, if I were to try and board a local bus Broad & Market, it would cost $1.65 one-way, not including the additional zone surcharges? Along the same line, if I were to board a train at Penn Station (NY), it would set me back by at least $4.00? Ouch!
One zone local (intrastate) will be $1.10, not $1.65. Two zone trip goes from $1.55 to $1.70.
If your concern is the $1.50 fare of the 24/44 operated by ONE Bus/Coach USA, they are not part of this fare increase; these routes are fully independent and ONE is free to set their own fares.
Thanks for the clarification.
I had this info sometime ago but misplaced it.....
what 'under the surface' differences are there btween TA and MaBSTOA in terms of sick days, etc????
I know OA probation is 6 months, and TA is a year.
Anyone know if they are on their way? I wonder if any were needed for the new schedules since they seem to have added alot of trips without dropping any. I'll post tomorrow and the next few days on my observations of the new assignments, etc.
NJT service in Philadelphia only operates along Market Street East in Center City Philadelphia, while most of the office towers and employment in center city seems to be more to the west side of market. I'm thinking that more people would ride if the bus continues more west.
Im thinking just keep straight on JFK instead of turning on Broad, it can follow 16th up to Vine, and then take it over to the bridge entrance....it would probably take the same amount of time it takes to go up broad....anyone else agree, or can think of a better routing?
Another routing idea would be a godsend for all of us Jerseyans who work in the office owers of Philly; Market, Juniper, JFK Blvd, 20th, Market to Schuylkill Ave (East side of 30th st Sta.), then on to the ramp to I-676 east (Vine St Expy) to 15 st ramp, then Vine St service road back to the bridge. Not only would this route bring more riders onto the NJT buses, but it would service all of the major employment centers in Center City, but connect with Amtrak, and skirt the edge of University City. My firm is moving to Commerce Square at 20 th and Market, and the walk to 13 th st to catch a bus is a hike now (I work at 18th and Market), the extra 2 blocks may nor be much, but when you're pressed for time, it can be a major inconvenience. i can save a lot of bucks (spent on SEPTA Fares) if that reroute was put into effect. Maybe we could petition NJT to explore any routing that would bring its passengers closer to Philly's Market St west towers.
I like the idea of extending NJT bus service towards Amtrak/30 St Station, however there's only one slight problem. Traffic along 676 East is very congested during peak hours. Plus, I have a feeling that either SEPTA or the City of Philadelphia would also pitch a fit. SEPTA would complain that such a proposal would hurt ridership (which I think is a load of BS).
What about a PATCO extension?
Here is the roster for NYCTA/MaBSTOA buses with "Bus-O-Rama"
#3472; TDH 5303; 1963; MaBSTOA
Wings added in 1964.
The end chrome section of the wings was more straight edge than the wings that came later.
#5516-5525; TDH 5303; 1964-65; MaBSTOA;
Some buses had a white sticker with the letters in green "MaBSTOA" placed above the front door/driver's window between the side marker light and the front of the wing.
#6701-6900; TDH 5303; 1965; MaBSTOA
#8001-8202; TDH 5303; 1967; NYCTA;
The colors of the seats were different from MaBSTOA
#8301-8780; TDH 5303; 1967; MaBSTOA
The 8001-8202 & 8301-8780 series also came with air condition and a roof top blister housing two-way radio equipment (equipment was also housed behind the drivers seat). Since they had a/c, the roof was painted white!
These were the best of the "New Looks" the city operated
#8829-8878; T6H 5305A; 1968; NYCTA
All of the "New Looks" listed above were delivered in the green color scheme.
#7753; 53102-6-1; 1976; MaBSTOA
Delivered in two-tone blue.
#631; 53102-6-1 "Flxible 870"; 1980; MaBSTOA
Delivered in white with blue stripe scheme.
Nice roster. Thanks for sharing that information with us. One question...if the "New Looks" are 6000's series and up, then what do you call the buses 3472 and 5516-5525? I know that they are not "Old Looks" The "New Looks" have that flap on the top above the back window. Buses 3472, 5516-5525 do not. Are those buses "New Looks" as well? The same goes with the Flxibles. Buses 5000-5165 and 5601-5700 (all forest green) are they Flxible "New Looks" too?
Ray
All of the buses listed there (except 1 ADB, Grumman Flxible 870 #631) are indeed "New Looks". I believe J.L.G. was referring to the 8000 series as the best of all NYCTA/MaBSTOA new looks. I'd probably as I rode them as a child on KB routes for years and they were my favorite until the T6H-5309A/10A came along. ...And of course later the Grumman 870/Flxible Metro became my favorite transit bus.
Wayne
The city preserves #8466 (ex MaBSTOA) in their museum fleet.
However, for the purist, this bus is not preserved in its true fashion.
For example, as originally delivered and operated...
exterior wise:
a) the horizontal chrome belt below the windows (where the fleet number is) was not painted at an angle at the base of the quarter window, but rather a straight 90 degree cut.
b) ad racks:
1 on the front between lights
1 on the rear engine cover between lights
1 long rack on either side of the coach
2 smaller size racks on either side, one in front and one behind the rear wheels.
c) logos: NYCTA buses had the "TA" emblem; MaBSTOA had the "OA" emblem - not the "M"
d) destination signs were black with white letters & numbers
e) "DO NOT PASS" decal on right rear bottom of engine cover hatch
f) during winter, the a/c condenser was covered up with a sheet of aluminum.
interior wise:
a) seats were hard plastic longitudinal seats (aqua green for Mabstoa and gray for NYCTA) only horizontal seat was the rear lounge over the engine. Buses carried 47 seated passengers.
b) steering wheel was a new design with new horn button, painted grey
c) hand held stanchions had stainless steel grab loops.
d) originally had the exact fare Johnson/Keene K-25 fare boxes with locking vaults
Did I miss anything?
I did say for the purist!
I agree, I agree (and remember). Some of the others in the TA's historic fleet also have some inaccuracies as well.
Wayne
Al the buses listed with the exception of the 631 are considered to be "New Look" design. Yep, both the GM and the Flxible.
The "thing" on the rear of the bus is the condenser/fan housing for the air conditioning, it was an optional item.
The old looks were....well, what Jackie Gleason drove in the "Honeymooners", that type.
Thanks a bunch, Steve and everyone else.
Ray
[if the "New Looks" are 6000's series and up, then what do you call the buses 3472 and 5516-5525?]
As responses already suggest, there were many new look (fishbowl) buses numbered lower than the 6000 series (which, by the way, were the first new look buses in the two-tone blue instead of the green scheme). The first new looks were #1-190, then #501-805, then 1000's, then 2000's, then 3000's, then 5000's, then 6400's+, then 8000's, then 4000's, then finally the 6000's.
Today I just happin to saw a Neoplan Artic #513 on the 7 Line on Main St in New Rochelle @ 8:10 AM. Pretty Nice Bus! The Signs are Bright LCD Green Signs and it have a DD60 Series engine that sounds like the NYCT MCI D4500's and NJT D4000's. I like the DD60 Engine now these days. And the side signs where like this: (Yonkers)(7). The front sign was like this: (7 Yonkers). Instead of this on a MAN:(Route 7) (Yonkers).
An LCD would be a sickly yellowish color like on the R46. Buses use LEDs.
Opps. I ment to put in LED. Sorry!
I thought bus 122 was suppose to be in Canada? I must have missed something. Can somebody please repeat that answer for me? Thanks!!
Ray
P.S. I saw 122 on the Q46 last Friday!
I saw Orions on the Q79 today.
Bus 122 was in Winnepeg, Manitoba, Canada for reasons unknown. It was retuned to NYC and Queens Village Depot last month.
Mark
Big Tree--Central Division
13, 39,40 ,76,78,99 303 ,304
Fairview ===Northern Division
128 154 156 158 159 321
Greenville ---Central
43 80 81 87 120 126
Hilton--Central
1,13 25 26 27 37 39 42 52 70 90 107 108
Howell--Southern
54 67 68 131 133 134 135 137 138 139 307--contract
308
,309 contract
126 128 321
Ironbound---Central
56 57 58 59 62 65/66,80 81 111 112 113 114 117 115 116
126---Greenville ,Howell ,,Meadowlands
Light Rail--central
7
347 substitute Bus service
R100--HBLRT
Market Street--Northern
72 74 145 148 160 164 171 175 178 182 703 704
712 770
Passaic Local Lines[ P-Lines)-Northern
Operated by Market St Garage
702 705 707,
709
722 742 744 746 748 758
Meadowlands--Northern
82 83 84 85 86 87 88 121 124 126 127 128 129 166,167 181 188 190 319 320 351
Oradell ---Northern
144 155 157 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 186
Orange ---Central
5 11 21 27 28 29 34 41 71 79 92 93 94 96 97
Wayne--Northern
75 161 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197
361-chase manhattan band contract
Egg Harbor--southern
313-315 ,316 319 501 502 503 504 505 507 508 509 552 553 556 559
Hamilton --southern
600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 976
Newtown Av--Southern
316 317 318 404 405 407 409 413 419 450 451 452 453 454 455 457 460
Washington Township--Southern
313-315 ,316 400 401 402 403 406 408 410 412 459 460 463 551 554
Contract Carriers
Mini Bus Routes
Central Service
305 7 Bus Co
306 Red and Tan
884 Suburban Management
890 891 Deleware River Coach
966 Town and COuntry
967 Town and Country
973 same
976 same
978 Red and Tan
979 Red and Tan
986 Suburban Management
989 same
Contract Carriers--Central
302 O N E--discontinue Jan 2002
978 ONE
PABCO
MCM1 MCM2 MCM3 MCM10
Academy Express===Middlesex Cty and Plainfield Local Southern
Contract Services
801 802 803 804 805
822
810 811 813 814 815 817 818 819
980---operated by Suburban Management
TCT-LLC Momouth Cty Local Contract Services
Southern
830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837
Salem Cty Transit Contract Services
Southern
423 468
Wheels -North Jersey Mini Bus
(community Transportation )
Northern
970 971
Hudson Cty Lines
Operated by 22 Hillside Corp-Academy Bus
Northern
2 88 123 125
Bergen Local Lines (B-Lines)
Operated by Community Transportation
Northern
751 752 753 755 756 762 772 780
January 2002
Steve
This is not completely correction!
The 302 from ONE bus is not discontinued, it has been redesigned as a Newark Shuttle, still operated by ONE Bus.
144 is a two way split to Oradell and Market Street
190 is a Three Way Split to Wayne, Market St and Meadowlands
709 is Orange
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coach Bus Operator
www.transitalk.com
709 is Orange ... I KNEW IT!!!
It's been like that since June, ever since I saw a 2600-series bus on that line!
Then why, pray tell, if it runs out of Orange, do the last few departures from Paramus do not go all the way to Bloomfield??? I mean, it's right on the way to Orange!
Now here's another strange one - yesterday, I saw bus 2756 on the #72 line. Is the 72 going to Orange also?
No, the 72 is split, I still see that garden variety Metro-D from Market Street on that line.
Trevor
Big Tree--Central Division
13, 39,40 ,76,78,99 303 ,304
Fairview ===Northern Division
128 154 156 158 159 321
Greenville ---Central
43 80 81 87 120 126
Hilton--Central
1,13 25 26 27 37 39 42 52 70 90 107 108
Howell--Southern
54 67 68 131 133 134 135 137 138 139 307--contract
308
,309 contract
126 128 321
Ironbound---Central
56 57 58 59 62 65/66,80 81 111 112 113 114 117 115 116
126---Greenville ,Howell ,,Meadowlands
Light Rail--central
7
347 substitute Bus service
R100--HBLRT
Market Street--Northern
72 74 145 148 160 164 171 175 178 182 703 704
712 770
Passaic Local Lines[ P-Lines)-Northern
Operated by Market St Garage
702 705 707,
709
722 742 744 746 748 758
Meadowlands--Northern
82 83 84 85 86 87 88 121 124 126 127 128 129 166,167 181 188 190 319 320 351
Oradell ---Northern
144 155 157 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 186
Orange ---Central
5 11 21 27 28 29 34 41 71 79 92 93 94 96 97
Wayne--Northern
75 161 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197
361-chase manhattan band contract
Egg Harbor--southern
313-315 ,316 319 501 502 503 504 505 507 508 509 552 553 556 559
Hamilton --southern
600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 976
Newtown Av--Southern
316 317 318 404 405 407 409 413 419 450 451 452 453 454 455 457 460
Washington Township--Southern
313-315 ,316 400 401 402 403 406 408 410 412 459 460 463 551 554
Contract Carriers
Mini Bus Routes
Central Service
305 7 Bus Co
306 Red and Tan
884 Suburban Management
890 891 Deleware River Coach
966 Town and COuntry
967 Town and Country
973 same
976 same
978 Red and Tan
979 Red and Tan
986 Suburban Management
989 same
Contract Carriers--Central
302 O N E--discontinue Jan 2002
978 ONE
PABCO
MCM1 MCM2 MCM3 MCM10
Academy Express===Middlesex Cty and Plainfield Local Southern
Contract Services
801 802 803 804 805
822
810 811 813 814 815 817 818 819
980---operated by Suburban Management
TCT-LLC Momouth Cty Local Contract Services
Southern
830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837
Salem Cty Transit Contract Services
Southern
423 468
Wheels -North Jersey Mini Bus
(community Transportation )
Northern
970 971
Hudson Cty Lines
Operated by 22 Hillside Corp-Academy Bus
Northern
2 88 123 125
Bergen Local Lines (B-Lines)
Operated by Community Transportation
Northern
751 752 753 755 756 762 772 780
January 2002
Steve
Updated
One minor correction... 976 (Princeton Jct Rail Shuttle) is actually operated by Lion Tours of Pa.
Note---i am using NJT Documentation
Service Changes January 2002
NJT Documentation CAN be wrong.
Look at my corrections also! They are to the letter of reality! Also remember that we live in these service areas too!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Well, to start, they took away my nice 40 foot Orion V/CNG and we now have an Orion I daily. Today it was 5524, still out of northern. I can't say I like it. There is far less room and we can't spread out as much. Some mornings, almost half the seats outbound are taken so inbound must be really bad. One of the other passengers informed me that ATE got the PM 37 trips again. As you may remember, about 27 months ago, ATE got the AM trips, then got all of them, and then gave them all back to the county. I guess PM loads are lighter than AM but I still don't get why they would do that.
Speaking of ATE, they seem to be operating the new 96 route. I saw one bus incorrectly signed "96 MONT. MALL". The 96 only goes to the mall after morning rush hour so the sign should have read Rock Spring or something to that effect.
5701 was on the 46 arriving at Grosvenor running on the 7:15 trip from Montgomery College.
5421 was on the 47 on the 7:02 out of Rockville.
I'll keep you all informed on what the next few days bring.
Now before I begin let me make clear that 99% of B/O's at LIB do a great job. Now with that aside, let me tell you what happened this morning on the N21 to Flushing.
I had this driver who I get occasionally, usually not in the AM tho. I feel he drives the bus in an unsafe manner. He misses stops when people ring the bell, and does not pull into bus stops. He does this all the time. Well today one passenger finally let him have it.
We were on Northern Blvd in Great Neck, there's two people waiting at a bus stop about two bus lengths away, but there traffic ahead of us. So the driver opens the door, one of the guys comes running up to the bus, the other guy waits at the bus stop.
Well when the light turns green we move, but the driver does NOT stop at the bus stop to pick up the guy waiting there. The guy flags him and yells stop but the B/O keeps going. Well we get into a traffic jam near the city line and the guy who was stranded runs up to the bus. The B/O still does not let him on. He pushes the door open and boards, but the B/O yells at him to "get off". Well the passenger did not. They got into a bad verbal argument. But instead of moving the bus, the B/O refuses to apologize to the guy and does not move the bus. The B/O just didn't feel like picking the guy up, so we sit there at the side of N.Blvd in Little Neck for 15 min all because the damn B/O is a jerk.
The driver radios for the cops to come and take the guy off the bus. At this point I was seriously thinking about getting off, and an N20 came in behind us and picked me and several other people up, including the passenger. When the cops came he got off the bus and got on the bus behind us.
I had a good conversation with the guy riding to Flushing. I told him he had guts to stand up for himself like that. He was telling me he was waiting for 20 minutes, and wasn't gonna let the B/O get away with skipping him. I was also talking to several other pax on the other bus and they agreed with me that particular B/O is bad news.
But the troubled B/O has done other things. For instance he starts moving the bus with pax on the first step and the door starting to close. Someone could fall on the steps, or worse fall out of the bus.
You can hear the warning beep, which also sounds when he opens doors before the bus stops moving.
So it was an interesting morning, and no I don't think I could yell like that in public, but I'm glad someone had the guts to do so.
(the fellow who was angry was quiet guy when talking to everyone else, and from what he said the B/O started it)
As for the B/O on that bus, he should be fired and I am writing a letter to MTA LIB about this dangerous operator. I did write one about a year ago but this one is going to be much stronger.
And to those who may think I'm over-reacting, let me just say that when someone operates in such a manner that people could get injured, and skips passengers when the next bus don't come for 20 minutes, and who does not know how to deal with riders, should be fired immediately. Generally skipping people is only proper when the bus is very crowded (the bus had plenty of seats) or when he is running very late and there's another bus right behind (the next one wasn't for 20min).
Again most LI Bus drivers and MTA bus drivers are great, but there are always a few bad ones out that should not be on the road.
Let's see what canned response you get from them.
Presumebly one of the new Ride-On 37 operators arrives at Grosvenor 10-15 minutes before his next trip and spends that time talking w/ other operators and doing other things. Meanwhile, the passengers are forced to wait in the cold (this is at about 7 AM). The person who I know who takes this bus says she will complain if it keeps up since she has no desire to spend 15 minutes in the cold so the bus driver can socialize.
I wish i'd do that at Rockland, I'd be put on the street for 3-days for not loading my passengers in the cold before taking off!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Good, IMO. While not everyone here shares this opinion, I feel, as a passenger, the driver's first and foremost obligation is to provide the best service for their passengers. For example, punching in a PR code every morning is always appreciated and can be one of the highest points of a passenger's day. I do understand that the drivers are human and do need to do certain things, like use the restroom. But socializing with other drivers doesn't please me. Agree to call your couleege some other time or meet when you aren't on the job. Remember those people freezing in the cold who pay the fares towards your salaries?
Just my two cents.
I tend to not agree, 5 minutes before is fine, but when I have a 15-20 minute layover, which happens a lot on Rockland Routes, we even have a run with a 45 minute layover, I expect 40 of the 45 minutes to be mines and not a minute more because I was some release time from the passengers, not bring them on while i'm recovering!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
*want some release!
Also Rockland's rule is load 3-5 minutes before Departure time.
Regards,
T.L.J.
Just curious - what line are you on?
I've ridden the #20 several times going to Palisade Center, and the 9 and 11A a couple times. But I'm most familier with the 20. It's a nice ride, albiet long, but it's pretty scenic north of about Englewood or so.
Extra Board, It'll be pot luck if you catch me!
Trevor
45 minute layover yes, maybe even fifteen, but if it is less than about 10, if you are socializing with your coworkers, I won't be very understanding of why you couldn't let us on.
When I was in NYC, I had to wait a minute for the M102 driver to finish his layover and move the bus up about 12 inches. Why? Who knows. Seems stupid to me.
Its called our time, when and if you become a bus driver, you're sitting behind the wheel from 45 minutes to a 1 and a half hours without getting up, you'll see how much you value the time you have at the end called YOUR TIME!
Don't mean to be cruel but your extra 5 minutes of freezing is absolutely shit to me when I've been in the seat a straight 1 hour or so and my ass is hurting!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I agree 100%! I'm a railroad conductor on NJT, and on weekends, we have a 1 hour break on Track 5 in Newark Penn Station. We don't have to open up until 10 minutes before departure time. The first part of my break is spent on the train adding up the money I collected on the way in, and the remaining few minutes before I remit that cash is spent just plain relaxing on the train. And wouldn't you know it, people actually have the balls to bang on the windows, trying to disturb our break because they want to make sure they are on the right track for a train that's not leaving for a half hour or more. One guy even complained it was cold, why don't we open up? To which I replied, "That's why there's a thing called a waiting room downstairs, and do you like it when people disturb you during a break at your job?" Of course, most of those people never worked a day in their life, so they have no idea what I'm talking about!
>>>That's why there's a thing called a waiting room downstairs,<<<
Well, if we had heated bus shelters, I doubt there would be any complaints. But we don't. And I don't think ANYONE likes being freezing cold.
I look at this issue two ways.....
Passengers who've never been bus drivers - Complain without being knowlegeable. Yet, since they are the bus patrons do have a right to voice their complaints on the issue. Though most are petty. I do side with the passengers on this one though.
Bus Drivers - Have to sit in a seat for an hour. Well, as a student, so do I. And our seats aren't nearly as comfortable. But the point is that yes, the bus drivers do deserve a break. They may not want to let a single individual on the bus for fear he may attack or something. But a group of ten people is totally different. Why let them freeze? It's not like they're going to be loud, or talk at all in most cases. Unless they're bus fans, they're not going to want to talk to you either. Most of the time the driver sits on layover with a blank stare anyway. Is that something that ten other people can't see? If they want to smoke on the bus, they shouldn't anyway. They're not supposed to.
So in the end, the bus drivers really do have the power. Most of the ones down here let you on the bus, cold or not. Sometimes THEY even strike up a conversation. Us passengers do appreciate such courteousness. I guess it's just good old fashioned hospitality.
As for the uncomprimising bus drivers. I'd like to see how they'd respond if their heater conked out. I mean, a driver's ass may hurt from sitting down for an hour or so, but our feet hurt from standing at a stop for just that long, in the cold while the driver had the pleasure of a heater.
But that's just my opinion.
I was a bus rider for almost 40 years prior to moving from Brooklyn to New Jersey, and I agree with you. I just wanted to relate the similar experiences of a trainman vs. B/O. By the way, prior to working on the railroad, I roder trains very often, and I never would have even CONSIDERED banging on the windows of a closed train to bother the crew. If I had a question, I would ask the ticket agent or information booth clerk, like a normal human being. I wouldn't just walk up to a platform blindly and start banging on windows!
Well banging on the window is stupid. But as bus riders, we really don't have alot of options at your common bus stop.
Bus Drivers - Have to sit in a seat for an hour. Well, as a student, so do I. And our seats aren't nearly as comfortable.
Apples to oranges comparison. A student sitting in a wooden school chair is inside a heated building, and the chair is not moving one inch. The driver may indeed have a cloth-upholstered Recaro to sit on, but add in road shock and potholes, the physical effort of steering, the sometimes frequent opening and closing of doors letting in the elements, not to mention the various noises of everything from the engine to the farebox to any number of conversations from the passengers - and the sympathy clearly goes to the driver.
If the bus is scheduled to depart at 10:45, and you arrive at 10:30, expect to wait 15 minutes - don't assume that because you're there and a fare-paying passenger that you are entitled to board. And complaints to the main office will fall on deaf ears - passengers simply are not allowed on a layover or deadhead vehicle, so why get mad because the driver or conductor didn't let you on? Instead, compliment the one who DOES when a situation calls for such (heavy rain or snow, bitter cold with no physical shelter available). I've had drivers wave me and other passengers to get on at the Hackensack bus termional when the building was locked for the night, and it wasn't a balmy 70 degrees. First word out of my mouth is always "thanks".
I almost always got out of the seat and the bus at the end of the line no matter what the weather was like. I had people tring to get on after the last people on the bus got off, I just told them that I am leaving the bus and they can't be on the bus. This time is my time to relax if I was runing late and did not have all my time and a had to go out right way then fine I let them on if I did not have to go the Bathroom. Then I would call Command and let them know that I am living the bus to go the the bathroom and I might be late leaving. This way they can't say I was delaying sevice for no resion.
One time I got to the end on my last trip. I was pulling into the Depot but had to goto the bathroom. I told the people that the bus was NOT IS SERVICE and the sign read the same at the time. I left the bus and I have locked the door (some lock a botton inside the driver windows) the person after he saw I was not insite open the door and let ehm self and other on the bus. When I got back to the bus and saw this I told evey one that the bus was going back to the depot and they had to get off. They all were compling that they payed there fairs already (This was before Metrocard, so everyone payed in cash, I put the transfers alreading in my bag so no one got one then). I could see the money was put in be looking and the F/B data(It was already set to NIS). Well this was at 10:30pm they all compand that the other bus just left 2 mins earlyer and the next bus was 30min away. Lets just say most of them compladed that the door was open and they just got on think that it was the next bus to leave. Then I saw the person who tried to get on and he said that he open the door becouse he was cold and everyone folled him on. Well I called command and told them that I realy had to go to the Bathroom and locked the bus up when I left and what had happen. they told me to give them all transfers and head back to the depot NIS. Well these people all started to complain they it was cold and they will be late for work. Afew asked if I could at least take them up the line back to the depot, I told them no it was not alowed. I told them this will then teach them not to get on a bus without a driver atleast out side the bus letting you on. They all got off and I dove away leaving them out in the cold, not fealing gelty or anything.
Robert
If I arrive at 10:40 for the 10:45 bus, I kinda do expect to be able to board. If I arrive at 10:30, I will wait though.
I did let people in about five min. before I left, and if I got back to the bus early then I also would have let them on.
Robert
Like many things in life, a little common sense goes a long way in these situations. During my brief career as a bus operator, I would sometimes let passengers on early if the weather was harsh (i.e., heavy rain or snow, or bitter cold), and the bus was at a location where adequate shelter was not available. Most times, though, I took my allotted break time.
Jim D.
Your advice seems right on point.
One argument I haven't seen in the entire thread is that passengers boarding a bus at a line's first stop shouldn't feel entitled to any greater privilege than those getting on at subsequent stops. They should be allowed to board only when the bus actually arrives to take on passengers, which is generally at the scheduled time. On the other hand, if a driver decides to come early to her/his initial starting point and allow passengers to board, the passengers should thank that driver, especially if it is in harsh weather. The only time a driver should be required to start loading at first stop before the scheduled time is when the number of passengers likely to board is so great that it would make it impossible for the bus to depart at its scheduled time.
Last Fall a group of us went to Long Beach via Far Rockaway. 1/2 the group went over to the N33 as soon as it arrived, but others wanted to view rements of the LIRR.
The bus started off & they came running. The bus got stuck behind a Green bus & they started banging on the door. The driver made some comments about it wasn't a stop & he wasn't supose to let them on. He did & they thanked him.
Mr rt__:^)
Because if you let them on early and not move the bus right away, they bitch, they do not want to know about a schedule, they want taxi service.
This route, we know the schedule. It is the same people daily, we all know the bus doesn't move until a certain time. People down here act differently than in NY when it comes to buses sitting in layovers.
When did you finly start with Rockland Coach. I though the you were going with Red & Tan, or are they the same. Well anyway go luck with it and hope you do well in the NYCTA B/O Test coming up.
Robert
Yes, Rockland Coach is Red & Tan.
Wayne
Thanks.
Robert
>>> I tend to not agree, 5 minutes before is fine, but when I have a 15-20 minute layover, which happens a lot on Rockland Routes, we even have a run with a 45 minute layover, I expect 40 of the 45 minutes to be mines <<<
I can understand not wanting to deal with passengers during a layover, but unless the layover is away from the bus stop, you have to be pretty hard hearted to leave 5 to 10 passengers standing outside in 20º weather or a rainstorm for twenty minutes while you sit warm and dry in front of them.
Tom
Exactly the point of the original message. If the bus isn't sitting in front of us, what can we do? Just as a driver, don't tantalize the passengers, intentionally or not, by parking in front of the stop and then sitting there the whole layover while we are freezing or drenched. There are ways to enjoy your break without infuriating the passengers. Also, don't sit at the stop in the back of the bus, and expect us to knock to get in. The assumtion is if you aren't at the driver's seat, you don't want to be bothered. (Luckily, that morning had good weather)
>>>Exactly the point of the original message. If the bus isn't sitting in front of us, what can we do?<<<
Complain to each other I assume, or to someone who doesn't care to hear rantings.
>>>Just as a driver, don't tantalize the passengers, intentionally or not, by parking in front of the stop and then sitting there the whole layover while we are freezing or drenched.<<<
Excuse you, sir. There is no "tantalization" on my part via my complying with my rulebook, and bringing my bus to the end of the line, out of harms way, and in a safe and prescribed location.
For you to receive such as "tantalization" shows your arrogance and lack of knowledge where my job is concerned.
>>>There are ways to enjoy your break without infuriating the passengers.<<<
If you're not on my bus, you're not yet a passenger. Life must be pretty difficult for you.
>>>Also, don't sit at the stop in the back of the bus, and expect us to knock to get in.<<<
Actually, I expect you to wait in the bus stop. If I wanted to hear from you, I'd pull into the bus stop and open the doors. I don't want you knocking on my doors. There's no reason to knock on my doors. I can plainly see you standing there, and I'll board you when I'm good and ready. Deal with it.
>>>The assumtion is if you aren't at the driver's seat, you don't want to be bothered.<<<
That's not as assumption, that's a FACT.
Ya know, Oren, it's quite a ponderable considering that one has more respect for the equipment, than for those who operate such. Please move to Queens.
Is the MTA rulebook so strict you can't stop short of the terminal post? I can figure a bus that isn't at the end of the stop at a terminal isn't ready for us but if it is, I will assume I will be able to get on.
Secondly, any potential passenger should be treated just as well or even better than a passenger. A potential passenger can easily decide to not use the bus again, not pay again, and that is less money for the TA and ultimately, your salary.
And about the sitting in the back of the bus and knocking, a driver did expect us to do that. No one did obviously, but when she opened up 2 minutes before departure, we were not all that amused.
Is the MTA rulebook so strict you can't stop short of the terminal post?
I already told you that there are rules governing bus stoppage in terminals, however the rules are moot when I call in a bathroom break. Also, what makes you think that the people exiting want to exit anywhere else but in the bus stop?
I can figure a bus that isn't at the end of the stop at a terminal isn't ready for us but if it is, I will assume I will be able to get on.
Assume you can get on when the bus is in the bus stop, the driver is in his seat, and he opens the doors and looks at you.
Secondly, any potential passenger should be treated just as well or even better than a passenger.
Explain.
A potential passenger can easily decide to not use the bus again, not pay again, and that is less money for the TA and ultimately, your salary.
Now THATS laughable! Tell ya what, Oren. Get back at me and never ride another bus. If you do, refuse to pay. See if the driver still pays his bills. LOL
And about the sitting in the back of the bus and knocking, a driver did expect us to do that. No one did obviously, but when she opened up 2 minutes before departure, we were not all that amused.
I highly doubt that's what happened. I believe she was in the back to avoid you, and looked at her watch when you were knocking (pestering) and decided that it was time to leave. I'll go so far as to venture a guess that you'd knocked before, and you'll continue knocking.
Please move to Queens and knock on my doors.
>>>Also, what makes you think that the people exiting want to exit anywhere else but in the bus stop?
I'm talking a distance of 5 feet. I don't think many people on board will really even notice, considering they will get the same treatment in the afternoon when they come home.
>>>Now THATS laughable! Tell ya what, Oren. Get back at me and never ride another bus. If you do, refuse to pay. See if the
driver still pays his bills. LOL
I am talking about people who aren't forced to use mass transit but do it anyway. If you must know, I have other ways of getting to this paticular destination, mass transit just happens to be the best. I have never been with driver who acted like a jerk in the opinions of two people I know who also ride this route, but these two people aren't forced to take the bus either. Again, it is a matter of convenience. I am sure that if they decide, they can find alternate modes of transit and if those two can, so can other riders.
>>>I highly doubt that's what happened. I believe she was in the back to avoid you, and looked at her watch when you were
knocking (pestering) and decided that it was time to leave. I'll go so far as to venture a guess that you'd knocked before, and
you'll continue knocking.
She said herself next time we could knock. What more can she say? At least it wasn't cold or raining that morning. I don't think we ever had her again.
>>> Actually, I expect you to wait in the bus stop. If I wanted to hear from you, I'd pull into the bus stop and open the doors. I don't want you knocking on my doors. There's no reason to knock on my doors. I can plainly see you standing there, and I'll board you when I'm good and ready. Deal with it. <<<
Aren't you talking at cross purposes? WMATAGMOAGH's earlier post was about a bus in a bus stop. No one suggests that a B/O in a distinct layover area should have anything to do with passengers. If a B/O pulls into a terminal stop, discharges his passengers, then closes the doors and just sits behind the wheel for ten minutes relaxing while potential passengers are standing outside getting soaked or freezing, he may not want to be bothered, and company rules may support him, but he can be sure he is not going to get any commendations from them, and if he commits any minor infraction while operating the bus, he will have a group ready to bang him in about it, possibly immediately if any have cell phones.
The attitude that passengers are nothing but an unfortunate annoyance while moving a large vehicle along urban streets misses the whole point of the job, and when a B/O gets to that point it is time to switch to driving trucks.
Tom
Good point. But we're not talking about all passengers. We're talking about one particular problem passenger, and as a BO, we can identify them simply from their written words, because we know the context in which they're used.
Personally, I open my doors at a terminal and allow passengers to board while I'm off the bus. Especially in inclement weather.
Do not mistake my commentary to WMATAGO as a generalization of how I personally operate. But by the same token, just as you are people, so are we, and expect some courtesy and a simple thank you when we go beyond the title (and many of us do).
As far as complaints and commendations go, I can take or leave either. I just go out there and try to get through my day without having an accident or incident.
Commendations? I have a wall full of letters and a box full of apples (11 or 12 I belive). I wear only one on my badge,
Complaints? I have 2. One woman accused me of flagging her while she stood behind a parked school bus and out of view. Another grew angry when I asked if she'd forgotten to pay her fare while she was busy chatting on her cell phone, ignored the farebox, and took her seat and continued her conversation.
You can't please everyone.
If my attitude strikes you as cold and heartless in this discussion topic, it's because I'm showing the same kindness that WMATA shows his drivers.
Something about shoes and feet...
I got news for you:
I do thank the driver pretty much daily. I am appreciative of what he does. The bus driver who sparked this debate was reported to me by other people so I am really relaying what they said and personal experience. I understand a BO's perspective is different than that of a passenger and vice versa. I personally believe there is a way to satisfy the majoirty of both drivers and passengers.
>>>I got news for you: <<<
That's not a very pleasant salutation.
>>>I do thank the driver pretty much daily. <<<
You haven't thanked me once. I must be that "pretty much" value.
>>>I am appreciative of what he does.<<<
I'm all warm-n-fuzzy.
>>>The bus driver who sparked this debate was reported to me by other people so I am really relaying what they said and personal experience.<<<
"Reported to you"?? What title do you hold that people report bad bus drivers to you?
>>>I understand a BO's perspective is different than that of a passenger and vice versa. I personally believe there is a way to satisfy the majoirty of both drivers and passengers. <<<
A sound-proof glass partition, BOSE "The Wave" radio installed in the dash, and an eject console?
Thanks for your efforts. I meant upon leaving the bus and since I don't ride your bus daily, you don't get a face-to-face thank you daily. When I ride your bus, you probably will unless I feel shouting from the rear door isn't necessary. In that case, you will probably get a wave when you leave the stop.
As for reporting to me, these people would much rather tell me of their troubles and have me tell them what to do about it than call the TA and deal w/ customer relations only to find it was a waste of their time. I don't hold any official capacity for any agency. I only can advise other people how to go about their issues.
As for reporting to me, these people would much rather tell me of their troubles and have me tell them what to do about it than call the TA and deal w/ customer relations only to find it was a waste of their time. I don't hold any official capacity for any agency. I only can advise other people how to go about their issues.
Who are "these people"?
How and why would they tell you their troubles?
Who are you to "advise" anyone on the particulars of bus operation when you have absolutely no knowledge of bus operation?
You seem to consider yourself some kind of self-appointed transit advocate, yet have no knowledge of transit operation.
Maybe you should learn the details of what it means to be a bus operator, and/or the rules and regulations that govern such before you decide to "advise other people how to go about their issues".
Especially since you seem to enjoy telling bus operators how to operate buses.
Sure. I can tell them if it worthwhile to complain. I actually told them that it wasn't since he hasn't really done anything illegal, it just isn't curteous.
I see you aren't all that appreciative of passenger feedback. I am telling you, down here, we don't care if the bus driver isn't in the bus during the layover. But, if he is there and we can see him and it is freezing out, we will want to get on.
Evasive non-answers to my previous questions. I, and other operators systems-wide explained themselves and their actions to you, yet you offer no quality responses in return.
What was that you were saying about feedback?
I understand your statements, do you understand mine? We, as passengers, not buffs, do not like staring at you while you sit in your heated bus while we freeze. I understand the motives but not every passenger does. Most passengers think just a few feet makes a difference because a bus at a stop, to us, means we should be able to get on.
I didn't ask "statements", I asked *questions". Here are the questions. Do you understand them? Why do you evade answering them with redundant posts?
Yes, I understand your questions.
I have no official capacity with Ride-On. People just come to me to ask why something was the way it was before bothering to complain since I can save them alot of trouble by telling them "don't bother". Happy now?
You also seemed to have missed one of his replys where he said he takes the bus out of sight of the first stop, so folks don't know he's relaxing in the bus taking a few minutes before his next run.
Why should folks get different service on the first stop vs. any others on the line ?
Mr rt__:^)
I wouldn't "sneak" my bus and hide it somewhere. On route or off. I bring my bus into the terminal, and if I have a few moments of recovery time, enjoy them peacefully by myself, or with other operators, before I start the adventure all over again. Moving my bus at any time when not in scheduled service raises my chances for an accident or incident. Something I don't need, and won't risk for the sake of piercing eyes or slurped spit.
I didn't mean anything bad by my remark, that's why I didn't use a word like sneak.
John will like this one, on Sunrise Highway in Freeport the N4 terminates. It's a L-o-n-g run to Queens. There's a big parking lot near a Dunkin Donuts, you'll typically see a bus or two parked a good distance from the store. The drivers use the facilities & obtain fresh caffeine ... it's not near the first stop on the route.
Mr rt__:^)
Granted. There are some lines that terminate in areas where the first stop isn't visible or terminates away from the last stop (as in the Q-2 laying over inside the Cross island loop out-of-view). Many, such as the routes that terminate inside the 165th Street Jamaica Terminal don't have much of a choice other than to stand in the first stop (unless the bus is empty and you can stand on 165). The line I work is one that is visible from the last stop, however, I will not allow the line I work to detrement my health by not taking a few moments of peaceful and relaxing solitude, whether inside the bus or otherwise.
But as I've stated before, I will not place my bus in possible jeopardy where the fault would lie with me via moving it elsewhere for the sake of visibility. Just as there are rules that govern the terminal area, there are rules that govern the movement of buses. Picking the "lesser of two evil rules" to break isn't something I'm inclined to do unless absolutely necessary under obscure circumstances.
I can see the potential risks of moving your bus elsewhere for your layover. The key isn't whether or not the bus is there, it is whether or not the passengers can see you really.
It doesn't matter whether or not you "see me". It doesn't matter if I'm 5 feet from the stop or not. Many times, the schedule will place a bus at a terminal, even if that bus isn't the next bus to leave, as in the case of deadhead run-on trips.
The only difference between a terminal stand and a route bus stop is visibility. Simply because a bus is visible doesn't mean you can board. It just means that there's a bus at the terminal. You board when the operator pulls into the stop, with the correct destination sign displayed, and the doors open. Sucking spit, door rapping, stairing or foot tapping isn't going to help you board any sooner. It's just going to frustrate you more as you go ignored while the bus operator relaxes during his few moments of peaceful silence however he chooses.
Deal with it.
>>> It just means that there's a bus at the terminal. You board when the operator pulls into the stop, with the correct destination sign displayed, and the doors open. <<<
You guys seem to be talking at cross purposes. Out here we usually have an area outside of the terminal stop on a street (possibly immediately adjacent to it) which has a sign marked "Layover," where most passengers would not even think of knocking on the doors. If the B/O actually does pull into the bus stop itself and sits there without opening the doors, someone will probably knock on the door. At off street terminals with bus bays, passengers are used to buses sitting there for extended periods of time and will wait patiently until the B/O signals that he/she is ready for them to board.
Tom
Drivers sometimes do give the impression they are ready, then give you hell if they really aren't. Sounds like your drivers out there seem to know how to avoid uninformed passengers.
And if you pull into the stop and act like you are ready even though you aren't, don't complain about some passenger who bothered you during your break. Also, don't come back from wherever it is you went after we are susposed to be loaded and en route if you arrived on time. I've seen drivers here do that and that REALLY bothers me.
I remember that comment and that is what we want. He can even just stop 10 feet from the stop. The problem we have is when the drivers give us additude because we bothered them during their break which they chose to take right in front of us.
Some of us don't have a choice where we place the bus. You still haven't answered my questions.
How many times must I answer them? If I am missing something because I looked it over, repost them.
As passengers, we don't care where the bus is. It is where you are. If you are sitting in your seat in the bus at the stop giving the impression you are ready, chances are, you will be bothered by someone.
How do you get the impression the operator is ready to board you when:
a)the doors are closed
b)the destination sign has not been set
c)the operator isn't even looking at you
DUH....
BIG AL
Guess I'm a cold hearted SOB because 15 of that 20 minute layover belongs to me and I do not tend on spending it anywhere near the bus!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
>>> 15 of that 20 minute layover belongs to me and I do not tend on spending it anywhere near the bus! <<<
Of course I do not begrudge you a break, but being away from the bus is quite a bit different than sitting in comfort inside the bus during the 15 minutes, while others stand outside in bitter cold weather.
Tom
>>> For example, punching in a PR code every morning is always appreciated and can be one of the highest points of a passenger's day. <<<
Huh?? A passenger who finds the useless message one of the highest points of his day really needs to get a life. And who is it who appreciates having the destination sign inoperative for 33% of the time?
Tom
Maybe he meant to say "...one of the high points of a bus foamers day"
8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
It certainly is uplifting. It shows the operator does care about his passengers, especially since it does take time to punch in the code. It is nice to see the operator do such a thing on a daily basis to make the passengers happy, and we all liked him very much. He was on time, courteous, and occasionally chatted with the passengers. When I asked him if he had a schedule for a route not at the station, he offered to bring it the next day, although I refused his offer since I wouldn't need it then. PR messages do matter to some more than you may have previously thought, although if they don't interest you, so be it.
NYCT has removed support for many of the previously available PR messages. "Limited Stops" and "Express" are no longer available on most buses, and will be phased-out to include all NYCT buses.
Some idiot suit downtown probably got a raise for this disaster. If it works, get rid of it. If it's broken, send it out. There is no more incompenent, militia-like agency than NYCT, and they are slowly burying themselves with every move they make.
Not to worry however. Sometime in the maybe-not-so-distant future, you'll swipe your card through an employeeless station, enter/exit your employless, fully-automated train, transfer to your employeeless, fully automated GPS navigated bus and be on your way! (good luck)
Just remember, your card BETTER work. You BETTER have a FULL fare. You can't argue or sing sad songs to a computer. And a computer will never violate a rule, such as allowing you to board after the bus leaves a bus stop, or engage in speeds over a posted speed limit. Think buses are late and bunch now? Just WAIT and see what your future holds!
Soon, you'll have what you want.
Of course, AL, myself, and the rest of us here will have long since retired, but browse the latest "Bus Talk" boards on occasion from sunny Florida to read the complaints of those current, while others post messages the way it was in the "good old days" when all you really had to worry about was when the driver would let you on at a terminal..
:-)
Why did they remove the "Express" and "Limited Stops" PR signs?
They were of great help on the Bx12 Limited
They weren't being cleared on non-limited runs.
The PR signs were cleared on most, and soon to be all, of the buses. There is a LIMITED integrated with the limited routings of limited routes, so while the LIMITED is still there, it's not there twice, while it seems slight is actually a major pain in the ass, and also, the back sign won't clear every 6 seconds to let you know it's a limited, so that's annoying.
When the PR LIMITED STOPS showed, it came right after the M2 LIMITED reading, which did not do so much good IMO. Can the rear sign be programmed to flip between M2 and LTD?
Why did M2 LIMITED not do much good?
On the Luminator signs, the rear sign is not wide enough to fit "LTD", but I belive it was programmed to do so on the TwinVisions with the PR limited sign.
I don't need to see the M2 LIMITED and LIMITED STOPS messages back to back. Too much info. You've told me you are a limited, now tell me where you are going.
I misunderstood you, I thought you meant the M2 LIMITED sign didn't do much good. My mistake.
If the rear sign can fit M102, how can it not fit LTD?
Hey, doesn't make sense to me either, just what I've been told.
>>> NYCT has removed support for many of the previously available PR messages. "Limited Stops" and "Express" are no longer available on most buses, <<<
Those do not seem like PR messages since they actually impart route information. The ones that bother me are the "Good Morning", "Good Afternoon", "Welcome Aboard", etc. which I think should be banned everywhere.
Tom
They are PR destination sign inputs. We don't have the other "greeting" signage.
I agree. The Champaign-Urbana Mass Transit District is particularly bad with these. I've seen personal birthday wishes and the like. And would you get on a bus that shouted, "PREPARE TO BE TAKEN BY FORCE"? (I hope so, since all buses with electronic signs were displaying that PR message for a few days!)
We have a few that read:
STORM EVACUATION ROUTE
TRAINING BUS
TESTING DOTS BLACK
TESTING DOTS YELLOW
NEXT BUS PLEASE
SEE SIGN BELOW
SUBWAY SHUTTLE
TO SUBWAY
and a few more. I believe we once had "Happy Holidays", but I'm not sure. Some of them are 2-digit PR codes, while others are buried within the 9000 subway codes. See FDNY (Steve's) site for details.
Also forgot to mention that although this was an (N21 FLUSHING no Great Neck RR this B/O had it as N20 FLUSHING (also had it signed wrong like that on Sunday). The result was several pax got on today and we did not go up Middle Neck so they had to get off and walk up Middle Neck in the cold this morning (no the B/O did not give them transfers).
You could have at least pointed the wrong sign out. Most drivers appreciate the reminder.
I have when it has happened before with this guy, he doesn't reply.
This has been going on for years, I think this guy is a senior operator and can pretty much gets his own way with everything.
Also to add in the past when I used change because he had the sign wrong it wouldn't accept my transfer and if it hadn't been for three other people who got on with the same problem he would've thrown me off.
Another reason to go with unlimited cards.
That 10-15 minutes is break/layover time. Thats the drivers break, I can understand its cold out, but thats kind of too bad. The person should pass by a couple minutes later, so they are not as cold. If the driver wants to socialize with other drivers thats what he wants to do, thats his break and he/she can use it whatever way they want. Plus when the bus is not in service, the people are not insured like if someone fell on the stairs the driver could get in trouble for having someone on when he was not suppose to.
I have to differ. You can enjoy your break without causing your passengers discomfort. Also, they tell us to come early, so when we start coming in large numbers, we expect to be admitted onto the bus.
At least I hear he leaves on time. I've had drivers from ATE who come in late and leave later.
The thing is that its his/her time, even though it would be nice to pull up to the stop and let everyone on. If the driver had to leave the bus for whatever reason, restroom, phone call, etc., the rules are mandated, I would think, that no passengers should be left unattended. The unions, especially, I bet have rules that allow the driver to take their break for however long it may be whether they are on time or not.
I mean, I take 30 minutes for lunch at my office and I sure as hell am not going back after 20 just because my phone is ringing or there is a fax or something like that waiting.
I've been out in the cold so many times waiting for a bus wishing they'd pull up, but inside I know that its their time to have like it or not.
Pax have been left unattended on LI Bus several times, once when the bus was in an minor accident another time when we ran early the driver took a smoke break.
The thing I don't like is that the bus driver not only takes his/her time, but also the passengers time as well. If you're on schedule, DON'T STOP AT JOE'S CHICKEN SHACK TO PICK UP A THREE PIECE!!!!! Some us DO have connecting buses to catch.
And if it's really a rule to not leave the bus unattended, why do they do it when they stop in the middle of the route to buy something to eat? You can't follow the rules then bend them when it suites you. Be consistent.
Restroom, phone call, yes. Socializing, I am not as tolerant with.
I do remember a time on Ride On when I was on the 35 or 38 at Montgomery Mall and it was a very very cold day out and you can hear the dispatcher through the radio telling all drivers to pull up to the stops as soon as they could so the passengers didn't have to wait outside in the cold.
Well, you'll never make it as a bus operator, socializing is part of the job. Like I said before, my 10-45 minutes at the end of my line is my time and I will do as I please, Socialize, Eat, Shit-Shave-Shower, Whatever. You become so engrossed with Passenger Pleasing and you'll go nuts.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
I tip my hat to all the bus operators. The driving I did at the University of Maryland was not even close to dealing with the "real" public. Yes, I had to deal with traffic and Lord knows I had my fill of drunks on the weekend late shift, but those were only 3-4 hour shifts, not 8-10 or even more hours for a regular city run.
Seeing both sides of it as both a driver and a passenger, its kind of cool to know what goes on "behind the scenes". Its like the days I worked at Sears selling shoes for four years, and being a customer now, to know what that sales person is going through.
Perhaps not. I do agree you deserve time off, but there should be a cutoff about 5 minutes before you need to leave.
>>>Socializing, I am not as tolerant with.<<<
Actually, when bus drivers are laughing and joking with their colleagues, they'll most likely let you on during the layover.
I never did. I am not on the bus, then no one is one the bus.
Robert
Here in Baltimore, we are by rule supposed to let any passengers in the loading zone on the coach at the beginning of the layover, a rule to which I basically adhere.
I basically have no real problem following this, but why does it always seem that on the rare instances where I have a 25 minute layover, I have to pick up the arrogant asses who all individually interrogate you with the "How Long Before We Leave" questions, then express irritation in your polite but honest answer. Then they sit and try to "coax" you to leave with a chorus of sighs, lip smacks, and muttered comments, all because they're too inept to pick up a bus schedule. Any attempt to explain to these riders that the bus leaves at 9:26 regardless, and that they might want to be thankful that they're spending this time on a warm coach instead of in the elements falls on deaf ears.
A few occurences of this, and you'd be cold to picking up patrons to avoid hearing this crap during a time that is supposed to be YOUR break time.
Doesn't the driver have a right to stretch his legs and unwind after a trip? If the woman knows the schedule and waits in the cold every day for 15 minutes, why doesn't she come 10 minutes later?
She doesn't come 15 minutes early as far as I know. From what I know, she gets there about 3-5 minutes before I do, I normally arrive anywhere from 3-7 minutes before departure.
John, A bus drivers job is not an easy one with lots of traffic in the City that mngt. & customers doesn't understand why they can't fly over to make your trip on time, plus they get a lot of rude folks in their face all day long ... this said the driver in question would seem to need some re-training.
My suggestion: don't have it out with the driver, record the bus, run & badge number & write a letter. You won't blow a blood vessel & may prevent the driver, who may be having a realy bad day, from doing something he'll regret for a very long time.
Mr rt__:^)
Some observations:
1. John complains about his bus trips again (yawn), and this particular operator, who by John's description, might need a review. However, there are 3 sides to this story- John's, the Operator's, and the truth. Who knows what really happened.
2. There are rules that govern the operation of each authority mentioned above. These rules may or may not be consistant. Those who have problems with a particlular authority should post relative questions pertaining to the situation, and ask about the regulation(s) that govern such.
3. There is at-best, minimal understaning of the job of Bus Operator from the customers/passengers perspective. We fully understand how to do our jobs. The frustrated are those who *think* they know how we are *supposed* to do our jobs. Educate yourselves. We'll all be better off.
4. Complaints. People, this is a public transportation agency, providing public transportation. It's not car service, not a taxi, not a dollar van, but a bus. A bus that runs along a prescribed route according to a given schedule, operated by a human being who is subject to the same faculties that you are.
5. Terminal Layover, and the rulebook: There are rules that govern layover time and what an operator can or cannot do within this time at this terminal. None of which means anything if the operator decided to take a "personal" (restroom break), so quoting the rulebook is moot because *I* override and overrule the rulebook via contract. Deal with it.
At my terminal, after operating upwards of 55 minutes, and negotiating through intense rush hour traffic (being cut-off, having people walk in front of my bus, etc), making every local stop along the route, dealing with questions, farebeats, school kids, the elderly who cannot climb the stairs, a wheelchair passenger, everyone and their mother having cellular conversations trying to deafen the other, avoiding accidents at almost every intersection, trying my best to have a few spare minutes at the end of the line to get out of my seat, strech my legs, enjoy a smoke, I can empathize with you idf you've been waiting a long while, however to the idiot who has a problem with that, I say *too damn bad*.
If my few moments of relaxation and stress reduction annoys you, that's just tough. Deal with it. Write your letter, make your phone call, do whatever it is that you feel you should do because a bus driver left you standing in a bus stop for a few moments on his personal time. While you're stressing, and jotting down bus numbers, we'll be relaxing and enjoying a smoke.
:-)
Some thoughtful remarks from a colleague who has to sit in that seat every day. I hope it helps some of the "customers" here appreciate how tough a job it is, thanks for sharing.
Mr rt__:^)
As usual, I agree with Brooklyn67 100%. Operating a bus is more stressful than most people imagine. The only way you can possibly know, would be to be an operator yourself.
One thing John did not mention. Was the bus operator in the stop when he picked up the first passenger? John mentions the bus was 2 bus lengths away. However, how long was the stop? When I operate a bus, if my front doors are in the end of the stop, I consider myself, IN THE STOP. The people are obligated to walk over to get on the bus. There is no rule that says a bus operator must stop directly in front of the customer. The bus merely has to be in the stop. We try to stop in front of the customer as a COURTESY. Nothing else. If I know that I have a very long traffic light ahead of me and there is traffic preventing me from bringing my bus to the front of the stop, I would open my doors, as long as they are someplace in the stop. Simple as that. Otherwise, by the time you get to the front of the stop, load the passengers and start to pull off, guess what? The light is red again. Unfortunately, there are alot of premadonnas out there who expect you to stop in front of them, even if it means making 2 stops in the same stop. I absolutely refused to do this and if this is the case that John is talking about, than that guy DESERVED to be left out there. No sympathy from me. About 6 months ago, when I was operating the Q85, I pulled into the stop at Springfield blvd and 144th ave, in front of Springfld. Gdns H.S. This is a rather long stop and I had the front of my bus in the middle of the stop with traffic ahead of me waiting at a light. There were 10 people waiting in the stop. I opened my doors. 9 of them walked over to my bus and boarded. No problem. Of course, 1 of them, a lady, just stood there and looked at me, even as my doors were still open. I drive off past her and I hear her screaming out there. I didn't even think of stopping, nor did I feel guilty. 2 days later she gets on my bus again. (She walked over to the bus this time.) She asks why I left her. I said "I didn't leave anybody. The fact is, you just didn't get on my bus". Of course, she starts in with the other customers about how rude I was, this and that. Then another customer who was also on the bus the same day, said "Well, he did pick up in the stop!" End of story. Lady was speachless. I did my job, plain and simple. But the customers have to put a little effort in themselves. It's the same as when you are pulling out of a stop, when suddenly you see a customer coming up to you from down the street waving. The only problem is, he's taking his time (excluding the elderly or handicapped). People taking their time like school kids that you know can put some effort into it getting to your bus faster. You think I would wait for them when I saw this? I won't say. It's just a lousy shame that some people feel we have to give them the world on a silver platter...
BIG AL
>>> Unfortunately, there are alot of premadonnas out there who expect you to stop in front of them, even if it means making 2 stops in the same stop. <<<
How far should a passenger to walk to board a bus? I am serious, not sarcastic. There are a few streets in downtown Los Angeles where as many as 10 bus lines stop at one stop. One, Spring Street, has a bus only lane and the curb is red for the whole block. If three buses come along at one time just as the traffic signal turns red, they stop one behind the other and all open their doors. The entry door on the third one is more than 80' away from the bus stop sign, and it is hard to even tell what the destination sign on the third bus is without walking back to it. I am always concerned that if I do not walk back to the third bus, it might not stop for me after the light turns green. On the other hand, if I do walk back there, the light may change before I get there and the bus will leave without me, or if it is not my bus, I will be 70' away from the bus stop sign when the light turns green, and if my bus arrives now, I will not have time to return to the bus stop sign to board it. So my real question is whether it is reasonable to remain at the bus stop sign when neither the first nor second bus is the one I want, and then flag the third bus after the light turns green? These are not terminal stops, so the doors only remain open as long as passengers are loading when the traffic signal is green. BTW, walking is painful for me, and it takes almost a minute for me to walk 80'.
Tom
How far should a passenger to walk to board a bus? I am serious, not sarcastic.
From memory, the rule pertaining to boarding passengers dictates that the bus must pull as far into the bus stop and as close to the bus-stop signage (if applicable) as humanly possible (barring obstructions i.e. idling traffic at a red light). Bearing in mind the "10-foot" rule, which dictates that a bus operator must leave at least 10' of space in front (in the case of parked cars, or other obstructions), and the latest "parallel" rule, which states that a bus can no longer "angle into" a stop, but rather stop parallel to the bus stop (rear-end straight and square, not sticking into the traffic lane), you are required to walk wherever I open my doors to board my bus, as long as I am anywhere within the bus stop.
Should you decide to stand at the bus sign, after I've boarded those who've walked to the bus, you'll be riding the next bus. The rule that governs this situation dictates that a bus is to make *one* bus stop per stop. This is also why, when a bus leaves a stop and is idling at a red light, we cannot board more passengers. Those operators who do so are doing this out of courtesy (and most of the time, without benefit of a simple return courtesy called a "thank you").
>>> Should you decide to stand at the bus sign, after I've boarded those who've walked to the bus, you'll be riding the next bus. The rule that governs this situation dictates that a bus is to make *one* bus stop per stop <<<
Big Al has indicated there exists a rule that only two buses are allowed in a bus stop at one time. If you are driving the third bus which opens its doors with only the front bumper in the bus stop, you are clearly not following the spirit of the rule which was intended to prevent the 80' dash for passengers who have arrived at the bus stop in time to board a bus.
Tom
The two bus maximum per stop rule is not meant to prevent the so-called 80 ft dash to the bus, a rather monumental feat for someone who is just plain lazy! The rule is in place for safety. The more buses you have in a stop, the higher % chance you have of an accident happening, either with the buses or with the customers.
BIG AL
>>> The two bus maximum per stop rule is not meant to prevent the so-called 80 ft dash to the bus, a rather monumental feat for someone who is just plain lazy! The rule is in place for safety. <<<
The 80 ft. dash is also a feat for the disabled as well as the lazy as I pointed out in an earlier post. On top of that, at the locations in Los Angeles where ten buses stop at the same place, during rush hours there are people milling around on the sidewalk, entering and exiting buildings, selling tokens, panhandling (close to skid row), and those waiting for different buses are going back and forth to see if the next bus arriving (the one with the "Welcome Aboard" head sign) is theirs. At least on Spring Street at the stop I use, because it is a single lane, the buses do not pull out into traffic, but play follow the leader down ten blocks.
Tom
Understand the TA rulebook- it's there to 'hang' problem bus operators, more than to provide an accurate guideline to operating a city bus. I can violate 3 rules but justify them with 3 other rules, and vice versa. The rulebook, for the most part, is the epitome of an oxymoron. There is more double-talk and rule contradictions than anything else.
To be perfectly honest, there is a rule for everything we do, or don't do. It's our descression to follow rules "to the tee" or using our judgement/experience.
I'll tell you the honest truth- if we, NYCTA bus operators were to follow the rulebook verbatim, every single bus on every bus line would be at least an hour late and getting later, probably operating contrary to peak direction, and probably a long caravan on one side of the street with no service in the opposite direction.
Don't think so? When was the last time you had a "NEW DRIVER"? How slow was s/he? Why? Because s/he is following the rulebook verbatim in order to keep his/her job. Imagine that we ALL drove as if we were new. That's actually how the TA wants us to drive.
DO YOU?
In my earlier posts, I also mentioned that I was excluding the elderly and handicapped as somebody I would consider leaving behind due to being lazy and not wanting to put any effort into catching a bus. Now, Old Tom, I know you are going to mention about "hidden" handicaps. But when you become an experienced bus operator, you can tell the difference between hidden handicaps and hidden laziness.
BIG AL
>>> I know you are going to mention about "hidden" handicaps. But when you become an experienced bus operator, you can tell the difference between hidden handicaps and hidden laziness. <<<
I wish the B/Os out here were as capable as you are. I have been left behind several times when I have been within 20' of the door of a bus. When I am standing at a bus stop, I have no aids which would indicate I am handicapped, and I stand straight without stooping over. When I walk at a slow pace, there is only a slight limp (if I try to go faster and a knee gives way, I fall on my face, or chest pains require me to stop for a nitroglycerin pill). Therefore when approaching a bus I appear to be ambling along. It isn't until I have to haul myself up the steps of a high floor bus leaning heavily on the support rails that it becomes obvious that I have any difficulty.
Tom
Then taking the same bus every day should be a benifit because you will frequetly get the same driver ?
Mr rt__:^)
>>> Then taking the same bus every day should be a benifit because you will frequetly get the same driver ? <<<
Los Angeles, like New York is a big city. I go to many places at many different times rather than a regular commute. I recognize the B/Os on the local line that passes right by my home, although even on that line which has only two buses, I have met about ten different B/Os (another rider told me that this company hires mostly part time B/Os, to avoid benefits) but virtually every trip consists of three or more buses. so I see many different B/Os.
Tom
When you operate a bus for a living, reading people becomes second nature and part of the job. Just as we can identify a potential problem before it happens, we can usually identify a passenger who is distressed, meaning, that although many disabilities aren't visible, facial expression and body language is. We can identify those who are "primadonna" from those who would have trouble meeting the bus some distance behind. I'm sure, that although some tempers flared within this thread, the majority of us would stop again to board you. I would.
Tom,
If you start feeling chest pains when you exert yourself, please, for your own sake, see a cardiologist ASAP and get either a stress test or an angiograph. My father used to have these symptoms when he walked briskly or did strenuous things and his life was pretty much spared because he found out early on that he needed bypass surgery before he had any sort of massive heart attack.
And if I just told you something you already know, I apologize, but I just wanted to "remind" you!
Just remember that heart attacks are the #1 killer in the United States.
>>> If you start feeling chest pains when you exert yourself, please, for your own sake, see a cardiologist ASAP and get either a stress test or an angiograph <<<
Thank you for your concern, and that is good advice for anyone reading the post. Of course I got my prescription for the nitroglycerin pills from a physician who is monitoring my heart condition.
BTW, the most common first symptom of heart disease is sudden death. Anyone who gets a warning pain should feel lucky and not ignore it.
Tom
Why? Because the JAMA rated heart attack as the number one killer of bus operators. They also rated bus driving as the number 2 heart related profession, and the number one stress related profession.
Go figure?
There have also been independent university studies of bus operation which concur with the above findings.
My dad was a NYCTA bus operator. Had a heart attack 10 years ago. Triple bypass. We had a dispatecher die of a heart attack last month. Two other retired operators from QV died of heart attacks within the month.
I will take those few moments of peace at the end of the line, regardless of the schedule.
Tom, best of luck to you.
keep yourself helathy. my dad had chronic heart diease and died of 2 hearts attacks on 11/6/01.
Here in NYC, we don't have that many bus stops that extend the whole block. Of the stops that we do have that are longer than normal, it is unusual for more than 3 buses to be in the stop at the same time. NYCT rules state that the maximum number of buses to be in any given stop is 2, a rule that is seldom enforced. I also know of the rule that states a bus is to stop as close to the sign as possible. The key word here is POSSIBLE. In the 8 years I've been with transit now, I have NEVER seen this rule enforced. It is only taught to the operators when they are students. As a supervisor, I wouldn't enforce it either.
In the event that 3 buses pull into the stop at the same time, I see no reason why any healthy person can't see the destination signs on the 2nd and 3rd bus in a reasonable time before they leave the stop. Common sense should dictate that you simply step back as far from the curb as possible, and you should be able to see all the signs without walking back at all. Unfortunatly, many people just stand there oblivious as too what's going on around them until it is too late and the bus is already passing them.
As for the case with John's story. He also mentions that the man who got left in the stop, RAN up to the bus when it got stuck in traffic, PUSHED the doors opened and boarded the bus. Sounds like a healthy able bodied person to me.
Why didn't he get on the bus when he saw the other person getting on?
Oh yes, it must be one of those premadonnas I mentioned.
BIG AL
Why should the M1-4 for example not share a stop on the upper east side?
"Why should the M1-4 for example not share a stop on the upper east side? "
They do share on the UES, but in midtown they will often be arranged so that the M1 and M2 stop at the corner, and the M3 and M4 stop mid-block. Works pretty well during times of congestion - if you need a particular line then stand near that sign. Otherwise head over to the first bus that comes along.
Also some extended bus stops will be marked for designated routes to stop only at a particular spot rather than having to stop anywhere within the extended stop.
And if the person not willing to walk that far has an apparent reason for not doing so, you just leave them there?
An "apparent reason" as you state above would include the use of a wheelchair or crutches. In that case, I would stop. When it isn't "apparent", then yes, that person would be left there. If the person was able enough to get to the bus stop signage, there's no reason he or she couldn't get to the bus itself, while loading the rest of the people.
I agree with Brooklyn here. I hate when a person (sadly usually a woman) feels they're too good to walk a couple of cars back to the bus stop. The Houston drivers NEVER leave them so we end up missing the light, pet peeve numero uno for yours truly. One of my biggest fantasy's is passing up one of those primadonnas, slowing down as if I'm going to stop, then gunning it. Of course if there was a bus behind me then it would all be for naught.
This was a short bus stop as most LI Bus stops are, barely a bus length. That bus was not in the stop, not even near it.
Yes there are drivers who put part of the bus in the stop, there is nothing wrong with that.
But this guy was 2 bus lengths before the beginning of the stop, and the one guy that did "move back and board) had to run and squeeze in between parked cars to get on the bus.
It's the same thing when I was a Conductor. People would simply expect you to hold the doors for them, then were quite dismayed when they found the train in the tunnel and they were still on the platform. Anytime you have direct dealings with the public, you're going to come upon "problem childs". If they don't want to put forth an effort, then they must suffer the consequences.
BTW, I could never be a bus driver. If I was stressed out as a Conductor, then I'm quite sure that I would've been fitted for a strait jacket if I was a B/O. I truly feel for you guys everyday.
Zman, you know what I go through everyday. And I agree with you 100%, I feel for the bus drivers everyday. Dealing with the public up, close, and personal.........
as a b/o in brooklyn i worked a line that terminated at the subway. i would take my swing there some nights. people would always come knocking on the door. i wouldn`t even give them the satisfaction of a responce. its my break and my time so if i am sitting relaxing i am not about to get up. after a while they get the hint
Me too. I wanted to drive a bus when I was younger, but when I found how "fun" it was to drive a car, I thought otherwise. As desperate as I was to leave the banking business, I was called for bus op first, but passed it by since I would only have to wait a week to be called for conductor. Today, these tests are now seperate.
Once customers realize that operating a bus is nothing like driving your car, half the battle is over. I'd always hoped that the NYCTA would televise safety ad campaigns showing elderly passengers standing at the farebox when a bus is abruptly cut-off, and the consequences of that action, with the subtitle reading, "Would you do this to your grandmother"? or some such message.
Too bad the NYCTA doesn't *really* care about safety.
Yeah, when I saw how "fun" it was and still is to drive a car and by observation seeing how much more crap the bus operator has to put up with, my decision was a no brainer.
I see what happens on the road while driving and the headaches just to own a car everyday. People cutting you off while driving, road rage, worrying about people breaking into your car, accidents, tickets, the high cost of insurance, upkeep, mechanics ripping you off, and on and on and on.
As long as I live within NYC (except Staten Island, but there's no shot of me moving there), I will NEVER own a car. Don't want one either.
Now compound those feelings with also having to operate a 38,500 pound bus loaded with loud school kids, standing elderly, chatters on cell phones, who-doesn't-have-the-fare, who-has umpteen-metrocards-with-no-money-and-will-insert-every-one-of-them-while-the-line-to-board-grows-even-longer, while answering multitudes of questions, makibng every bus stop, trying to announce bus stops, avoiding accidents that could jeopardize your job at every turn, trying to navigate through bumper-to-bumper rush hour traffic (while no car will willingly let you back into the flow of traffic) in an attempt to stay as close to the posted schedule as possible so we can have those precious _few moments_ at the end of the line to ***BE ALONE***.
Without the rapping on the doors or the dirty stares or the spit sucking or any other form of annoyance.
I have read most of the posts in this thread, and my opinion has only been reinforced -
I side with and totally sympathize with the bus driver.
These men and women really are wonders, to have to put up with all the crap that they do, day in and day out and with mediocre pay.
As someone else stated here, it really is amazing that they don't go nuts and start shooting up bus terminals or what-not.
Every time I ride a bus, I always greet the driver when I get on and wish them a nice day or night when I alight. Even if they ignore me or grunt, I still do it. And for the drivers that are pleasant and upbeat, I have three words for them:
GOD BLESS YOU!!!
Believe it or not, your message goes a long way :-)
Even if you do have gripes or complaints, isn't it better to ask why these things happen, rather than post accusatory and uneducated messages? I think so. At least you'll receive answers to why certain situations occur, and what, if anything, you can do to improve the situation.
Thanks for the supportive post.
Dealing with the public, you can't please everyone, how about the times I pull up to the the last/first stop at 207 street with only a minute to spare and let everyone on and go?, for another hour drive accross the Bonx?, The public don't give a S#*$ about us.
If I get to the other end, at Bay Plaza with time to spare, I'll let everyone off, and pull the bus behind JC Penny, out of view, take my time, stretch my legs, call my honey, then pull up to the stop and p/u 2-3 minutes before I head out. T/A rules state you cannot idle the bus at the stand, so it you let on these people right away, with 10 or more minutes, you get the usual teeth sucking, snide remarks, "when are we leaving", who the hell wants to hear that? Just my two cents in this topic.
You'll soon learn that being a healthy human being is more important than leaving on time, and more important than a posted schedule set by some faceless suit from the comfort of his cubicle, who's probably never even ridden a bus, let alone understands the details of what it takes to operate according to these ridiculous schedules.
Repeatedly bashing your organs and stiffening your muscles will surely lead to health problems. The added stress of concerning yourself about "saliva sucking" and the like, will surely lead to mental issues.
First, and foremost, you are a person. You have contractual rights, as well as human rights to ensure the safety and comfort of yourself first. Call console, take your 20 minutes, relax, and let them put you in place. If you persist in "making time", you'll never get more time. On the contrary, they'll cut into your running or personal time elsewhere.
There's a reason that in 1989, the JAMA recognized the profession of bus operator as the #2 heart-attack related job and the #1 stress related job in the world.
You better care about yourself, because they sure as hell don't.
[You'll soon learn that being a healthy human being is more important than leaving on time, and more important than a posted schedule set by some faceless suit from the comfort of his cubicle, who's probably never even ridden a bus, let alone understands the details of what it takes to operate according to these ridiculous schedules.]
If that suit has a meeting cross-town or must travel from Manhattan to Brooklyn (e.g. Jay Street). Why shouldn't they have to take public transportation vs. the company car/truck ?
I for one enjoy going for a ride on one of our express buses when I have to visit nycDOT at South Ferry or the TA at 130 Livingston !
Our Treasurer gets a laugh out of my expense report ... one FUN PASS.
Mr rt__:^)
[Our Treasurer gets a laugh out of my expense report ... one FUN PASS.]
Don't you receive an employee pass? I honor all private passes as well as LIRR passes.
The "privates" don't get a free ride on MTA equip., same goes fror them on our buses, so the ride on our Express is "Employee Free". I use the Fun Pass to complete the trip.
The story I love to tell: I was a few minutes late to a small meeting at South Ferry. I apologized to the group & said I was delayed waiting for a Slant 40 ... they gave me strange looks.
Mr rt__:^)
I know you don't get a free ride on NYCT buses. I asked if you had an employee pass. Most of us are pretty accomodating when it comes to these things :-)
The mngt. of the "privates" were offered those cards & declined them.
Mr rt__:^)
Why?
They had there reasons. Maybe it had something to do with them being private companies & employees vs. part of a public corporation.
The fact that big brother can track you movements based on your use of that card might have had something to do with it.
I am just guessing here as I'm not in a position to have any idea of what the real reason was.
Mr rt__:^)
Thank you for realizing that passengers are going to inquire when you will leave if you just sit in front of them. Sometimes, the best solution to a problem is to remove yourself from it. Of course if we aren't familiar with a route, we will ask when they are leaving.
The bus driver did not give his badge number when asked. But I do have the bus number and route number and will put the letter in the mail by the end of this week.
To the other fellow here who complained about layover time there are rules that don't allow passengers to be picked up sooner than 5 minutes ahead of schedules. There's nothing wrong with a driver taking a break as long as it doesn't cut into the schedule.
Bus drivers taking layovers don't bother me, they do need their rest, this is THEIR break time. It's when drivers don't pick up passengers legitametely waiting at bus stops and starting to go when people are on the first step that bothers me.
I think there is a stated rule on a sign in the bus that states that passengers must be BEHIND yellow line when the bus is moving. I wonder if LIB has "undercover riders" watching drivers? I think I heard NYCT has them.
"Undercover Riders"?? Oops, I think John just blew his cover....LOL!
Ah So John's A Spotter eh?
I know a spotter like a mile away, don't even try to board my bus!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
>>> I know a spotter like a mile away, <<<
I'll bet it's the clip board, stopwatch, sunglasses and shiny trouser seat that gives them away every time. :-)
Tom
Nope, NJ and Rockland's Spotters are plains clothes, however when you know your customers and this wierd person boards its kinda suspect!
Trevor
John, they are supose to ware their bade on their right sleeve. If he wasn't, that's another violation.
At this depot our president died a couple of years ago, but some still have a black piece of tape over their badge number. He was closer then most to the drivers, but are they still in morning or just covering up their badge number ... no one wants to push it.
Mr rt__:^)
There's nothing wrong with a driver taking a break as long as it doesn't cut into the schedule.
Is that right, John? Interesting.
What if I'm late, and have no layover time left, yet have to use the bathroom? Am I not afforded the "luxury" of human relief because of a schedule?
So what you're saying is that it would be "wrong" for me to use the restroom in this case. Correct?
Worst, if John was driving, he'll only pick up mystical girls and no one else.
Too bad there can't be a simulator that allows passengers to be the driver and try to concentrate while people are running up banging on the doors, yelling about the schedule, etc. You could set up a point scale to show how they would rank if this were a real world situation, lose points for being off schedule, driving too fast, running lights, things that would happen if you lose concentration.
Take the test and try it in real life.
It's great being a guest of the FDNY. Ring the bells, sound the siren, slide down the pole. Extinguishing a fire is something else.
Yeah, I've had some experience driving for the University of MD, so I went through all the written stuff and the driving exam for the CDL. That's one licence I'll never get rid of. Of course, driving for a university is a whole lot different than driving in a big city with the real general public.
I've always wanted to do a ride along with the local police. I bet the FDNY was interesting. Anybody that wears a uniform is a hero to me, that includes bus and train operators.
Yeah a bus simulator would be cool.
Maybe we'll get the opportunity to find out. Anyone here taking the NYCTA B/O test?
Restroom no, to do other things, yes. I've seen operators who arrive late and act as if they were on time. You might deserve about a minute but if you were late for any reason, within your control or not, it isn't very fair to act as if you showed up on time because you weren't.
Restroom no, to do other things, yes.
What exactly is "other things"?
I've seen operators who arrive late and act as if they were on time.
What do you mean by "act as if they were on time"?
You might deserve about a minute but if you were late for any reason, within your control or not, it isn't very fair to act as if you showed up on time because you weren't.
"About a minute"? How gracious of you! Well, you might deserve to wait in that bus stop until I feel I'm good and ready to board you. I'm sure, given your pompous attitude, the operators who actually serve you would concur.
>>>I've seen operators who arrive late and act as if they were on time.
From what I can tell, they act as if they have all the time in the world and they just become later. Now do it on every trip and see how late you are at 9 AM.
WAMATAGMOAGH, you really need to become a bus operator to have a full understanding of how much we value the very few minutes we get at the end of the line. Bus operators are not robots. Do you realize that every time we get to the end of the line, we are supposed to do a full inspection of the bus? When I say full inspection, I don't mean just walk up and down the aisle and check for lost articles. We can go outside and walk around the bus very s-l-o-w-l-y, checking every lug nut, light bulb, panel, window, reflector, tire, rim, so on and so forth. Inside, we can check the seats, grab bars and bell just to name a few. In a nutshell, we can really drag it out. And guess what. It's all part of our 19-A inspection duties, which state the bus is supposed to be inspected after every trip to make sure it is still deemed safe to carry passengers. Of course, in the real world we don't do that.
But don't push it, man. Otherwise, you can really get a taste of how a bus operator can keep you waiting out there in the cold and still be doing his job correctly.
BIG AL
He probably couldn't hack the 10 day training class, let alone the job. Maybe he'll see for himself and take the upcoming test. I'd love to be at Zerega for that.
No, if you need to use the restroom then by all means you can.
Thanks for giving him permission teach. Now, when he comes back I need to go to my locker.
Again most LI Bus drivers and MTA bus drivers are great, but there are always a few bad ones out that should not be on the road.
You know what, John? You're right. My only question here is-- why do you always seem to find that fireable 1%?
For me, the deal is the passenger makes the operator....
If you come on the bus bitching, sucking your teeth, rolling your eyes towards the operator, We as operators NEVER forget a face, and the next time you see our bus. You are either in for:
1) The Ride Of Your Life
2) To Be Late To Your Connection (We still get paid if we're late)
3) To Be inadvertanly (Spelling?) passed up as we dig for our paddle
4) For a Bell to be cut off so when you ring it, we don't hear it and you end up 10 blocks from your stop
5) OR for the B/O to be just as nasty.
Bus Operators get a very bad rap all time, but the question is, Has any of the passengers sat and thought about why we are irritable sometimes, or have a bad attitude..........
I know for me I come in with a great attitude ready to enjoy some driving and here comes the 1 or 2 assholes of the day to ruin it.
Oren: Think about it, because if you came on my bus with that mess......Oooooo Nelly!
Think about it?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
RCBO........
He's right.
Passengers have bad days too. I'm not wanting to be with people at 7:30 AM, one of the reasons I take public transit. I'm not going to act rude to the operator if he doesn't let us on the bus, I am just not going to be very happy if I spend more than 5 minutes staring at a comfortable, heated bus while I am standing, it is just slightly above 30 degrees, and raining. You won't be in a good mood either. Waiting in those conditions when the bus isn't there and it is freezing rain and the whole walkway and every single bus stop is covered in ice isn't much better, but that is another story.
Considering I have never taken RC before, I probably wouldn't care as much. But if a driver has to move a bus 12 inches just to let me on (MTA, M102 at 146th Street, friendly driver afterwards), please, just give me a break.
This is not a Rockland Coach thing, this is a Industry wide thing, As a passegner you should respect us as operators and let us have our friggin' 10-20 minutes at the end of the line without have to look at ya'll faces, smell the horrid smoke breathe or hear the sucking of the teeth because we haven't pulled off yet....
The point is PLAIN AND SIMPLE...YOU ARE THE PASSENGER, I AM THE DRIVER, I CONTROL BUS, YOU RIDE IT AND DEAL!
I tried being nice about this, but now its REAL reality....
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
RCBO....
For the last time, take your 10-20 minutes but don't expect everyone at the stop to know you don't want to be bothered, especially if they normally don't ride that route or system. Not everyone knows everything about how the system works.
Not even "transit buffs", eh?
I hope no single person on this board claims they know everything about transit because no one here does.
Maybe not, but in the grand scheme of things, you'd tend to think that someone who calls himself a "transit buff", named himself after a transit agency, and posts messages in a forum named "Bus Talk" would know a little something about.... buses.
No?
I do but I don't know all. Also, as it has been stated numerous times, I have never been a bus operator. I am commenting from the perspective of a passenger. I can see your reasons for what you do on your layovers and I hope you understand why I, as a passenger, not as a busfan, have some objections not to you personally, since I have never been on your bus, but to select drivers across the industry.
But as a self-proclaimed "bus fan" you (should) have a better understanding of bus operations than the average passenger, hence have a bit more compassion for the operators and understanding of the job itself. You can't claim you're "just a passenger" in one arena, and a "bus fan" in another. Especially since you claim there are those woefully uneducated commuters who seek your transit expertise.
I do. I am writing these posts using extreme situations, just as you are. It has been constantly said in this discussion that neither of us are like this in reality (or I hope you aren't), we are just posting worse-case scenarios. If a bus driver thinks that they can sit in front of the passengers on their layover and not be bothered, they are wrong. Move a few feet away and it won't happen.
I have to admit that one time, I did suck my teeth at a TA bus driver, and I was in my TA uniform too.
I was riding on a subway shuttle bus during a General Order from Rockaway Blvd to Beach 98 Street. The bus picks up no one along the way, and the driver does 20 mph down Cross Bay Blvd (speed limit-50 mph) all the way to B98. I barely made the subway connection at 4:30 am and was almost made late for work. I swear to god, I wanted to pull out my brake handle and.........um, well........
I can understand driving slow on a regular route to stay on schedule, BUT C'MON!
Somebody that wears a T/A uniform shouldn't even be making a post like this. If the operator was driving slow, you should know why. The reason he was driving slow, was because there was nobody to pick up. Even shuttles have a schedule to stick too, which takes into account the average number of people the schedule makers feel will be picked up. But it really boils down to a guess by the schedule makers, since there may be many people to be picked up, or nobody at all at any given time. If you were running late, then you should have caught an earlier bus, plain and simple. Otherwise suffer the consequences of the next bus who may be running ahead of schedule and the operator is trying to adjust his time, to keep from getting in trouble.
BIG AL
If you were running late, then you should have caught an earlier bus, plain and simple.
It's kind of hard to catch an early bus if you're running late.
He was running late because he caught a late bus. If he left the house earlier, he would have caught an earlier bus and not been late.
Get it?
BIG AL
Sí.
Al, I was thinking the same thing. You would think that a fellow NYCTA employee would know what it's like working for the NYCTA... LOL
Anyway, schedules are schedules. Whether it's a local bus schedule, subway shuttle schedule or NYCTA subway line schedule. And anyone who works for the TA should know that, and be more sympathetic to their co-workers who are doing their jobs.
But then again, as I know nothing about subway operation, most motormen/conductors know nothing about bus operation. Assuming they do is akin to assuming all transit employees know all transit lines (including the privates in all boroughs). Of course, we don't (even though most passengers feel or believe we do).
Even so, if I were in the subway while the train was creeping along while I stared at conescutive green signals, I surely wouldn't give the TO a hard time or suck spit. I'm sure he has a reason for doing so. I'm sure he knows how to do his job, and doesn't need my help. Or complaints.
>>> Even shuttles have a schedule to stick too, which takes into account the average number of people the schedule makers feel will be picked up. <<<
Al;
What Zman described was an 18 block shuttle with only one intermediate stop at 4:30 A.M. Of course the B/O had to keep to the schedule, but you have to wonder if the person making the schedule only considered the running time during the day, and the times the bus was to leave the Beach 98 terminal, so passengers could load from arriving subway trains, without allowing enough dwell time there so bus passengers would get there soon enough to catch the departing subway trains. Since he just "barely" made the connection (but did make it), the schedule did work, but there certainly shouldn't have been any problem with running hot between the stop at Beach 105 and Beach 98.
Tom
It is possible that the schedule may have had too much time built into it for the time of day that run was operating. I know alot of runs that have either too much time built into it where the operator has to creep along, or not enough time built into it where the bus is always late and the customers are always crying about it. I'm sure the schedule makers try to do the best they can, but as I said, alot of times, it is based on the average number of people they feel the bus will be carrying. This is based on the information the "checkers" are supplying to the T/A.
Another thing to consider. Traffic patterns are always changing, usually for the worst. New traffic lights are put up, which causes the running time to increase, holiday traffic adds to the problem, construction, you name it. Regardless of the situation, the bus operators overall try to do the best job they can to adhere to the schedule, something they are seldom commended for. Being caught running "hot" by the T/A is considered a major offense since basically there is no reason for it. People wind up being left outside waiting in the cold when the bus has already past, meanwhile the schedule on the bus stop sign says the bus is due in 2 more minutes. These people have a legitimate gripe. How would you like your mother to be left standing outside at 4:30am when the bus already went by 5 minutes earlier, and the headway is every 30 minutes? I'm sure the bus operator Zman is referring too was trying to avoid that. If there were no dispatchers out there monitoring the line at that time and the operator knew that and was dragging the line to keep his schedule, than he should be commended, not "I felt like pulling out my brake handle and....", especially by somebody else who supossedly wears a T/A uniform.
BIG AL
Wait a minute. If this is the shuttle bus I think it is, its route is a few miles long but it only has one intermediate stop, at Broad Channel. As long as it doesn't leave Broad Channel early, what's the harm in arriving at B98 a few minutes earlier than scheduled?
I don't know about the rules outside of NYCTA, but we are NOT allowed to idle the bus at the stand, unless we are departing right away, the notion of the B/O sitting in a heated bus while the rest of you stand out in the cold is absurd, the buses loose all the aquired warmth in a matter of minutes, so don't think that we sit in a heated space taking a break. AND if I am not mistaken, the time between runs, is NOT there for our benefit, that is called "Recovery time" to make up time lost on the run so that you may leave on time, IF you make it to the stand on time, then BINGO, you get all the recovery time, if you are late, then sometimes you get 4-5 minutes, sometimes, it's drop off and go back.
And after reading this morning on this topic, I took my 12 minute layover at 207 street, OUTSIDE of the bus, I only got on when it was time to go.
Trevor, you hit the nail right on the head.
You are SOOOOO RIGHT, Trevor!!!!
SO RIGHT!
Welcome aboard, Steve. The operators are complaining about the passengers for a change.
Aint that a 'hum-dinga'....
Maybe we should go to alt.walmart and tell him how to do his job.
there are alot of bad apple drivers out on the road. But there are more ass**** customers. I still get my paycheck every two weeks no matter what you all say as passengers. passengers think that the driver is someone to spit on and abuse. driving a bus almost 20 years now and not one passenger has ever gotten the better of me. i ignore passengers. its the only way to survive. in written on one ear out on the other.:>)
There are definately more annoying passengers than drivers. Passengers often will run after a bus once it leaves the stop and bang on it like a lunatic. Then there's those that ask too many questions and think the driver knows every address and store along the route.
A driver on the B64 told me that when Stillwell Terminal is colosed for rehibilitation,the shuttle routes willb e served by Ulmer Park buses. While buses from Brooklyn depots will also serve shuttle route, Ulmer Park will do THE BULK of the runs. Does this mean more buses for Ulmer Park? Stay tuned.
B64-#4865
The TA is going to put a smaller Depot somewere near Stillwell Ave, just like with the Willy B.
Robert
thank robert-the rdriver i ride withknows you-his route is the B64 run 011-
I know most of the driver out of Ulmer Park. I worked ther for the first four years of Driving. I am not shore who is the driver of run 11 on the B64 know.
Robert
Take a guess what it is?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
Flxible. Where is it?
Oh You're Good, Spotted by TransiTALK Pacific Northwest Correspondent Neil Greenberg at the Detroit Diesel Plant in Michigan.
We are working at TransiTALK on getting a photo of the bus.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
I know my stuff.
What's the current number of New Flyer artics running on the M15? On a trip to Manhattan on Dec 30, I spotted at least two on that route. And will the M15 become entirely artic during 2002?
There are currently 4 articulated buses assigned to the M15. They are #'s 5506, 5507, 5508 & 5509. It has long been a goal of NYCT DOB to make the M15 an all articulated route. However, various logistical problems with 126th Street Depot and quality control problems with New Flyer have prevented this goal from coming to fruition. Unless NYCT DOB resolves it's problems with New Flyer or finds another manufacturer then it will be quite a while before the M15 will become an all articulated route.
What are the logistical problems w/126th St.?
I was listening to a sound bit on this website and this was a good sound. It was a Gillig with a BR400 or B400R or something like that also with a Cummins M11 engine. However, it is not the same sound as the MTA LI Bus Gilligs. BTW, what are they using those Gilligs for in the first place (MTA LI Bus)? Also, the same sounds can be heard from the VTA Gilligs as well.
Ray
And what the hell does this have to do with the M15 being articulated?
Whoops! Sorry wrong message! My mistake!
Ray
Give him a break, at least he changed the subject header. That's more that some people do here.
Good point, message partially retracted.
All the latest SamTrans Gilligs have Detroit Diesel Series 50's in them.
If we are talking about samTran that replaced Greyhound in San Mateo they do have some with Cummins.
When I worked for them in 1999 they were just getting the 600's and as I recall they carried the Cummins M-11.
Also if anyone is interested SFPD has two former samTrans Gilligs still in the old colors.
Blue
The Gilligs are all but a memory at MTA L.I. Bus. The last time one was used was for the World Trade Center disaster (bus 544). L.I. Bus had 35 foot versions (numbered 500-519) as well as 40 foot. Unfortunately now that they're so gung ho on this new CNG technology, it won't be long until all the diesel Orions are gone as well.
Not all of the Gilligs are gone. There is still several around and are used upon emergency since they have had Emissions Upgrades to Series 50s.
Again, NOT ALL of the Gillig Phantom 40-T Buses are gone from MTA-LI Bus.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Yes, that's true. But you know as well as I do, that unless some major catastrophe happens at M.T.A. LI Bus, those buses will never see revenue service again. They have a way of wasting money on equipment that's about to be scrapped. Take for example, the '81 and '84 Flxible Metros - just before those buses were scrapped, each one had a new starter put in. For what?
126th Street Depot, which was built in 1949, is a cramped and outdated facility not really suited to handle a bus as large as the articulated. The fuel station has to be reconfigured so that the bus can be refueled and have it's farebox vacuumned at the same time. Currently that is a two step process and is time consuming. There are currently only three lifts capable of handling articulated buses. With a projected fleet of 70 or more that is a totally inadequate number. Maneuvering the bus in around the depot is a chore since there is not a lot of space inside.
As I have stated in previous posts on this subject, the M15 is the perfect line for the articulated bus. Unfortunately 126th Street Depot, as it is currently configured, is the imperfect depot to handle a fleet of articulated buses.
Switch the M15 depot perhaps.
The 15 will never leave 126. The TA side of the whole bus opertaion would never surrender 130 or so weekday runs to an OA depot.
The TA side wouldn't have a choice. The TWU fought that battle and lost. Per an arbitrator's decision, NYC Transit has the unilateral right to move routes around, even between "authorities."
That said, however, the route starts right outside 126th Street. Hard to beat that for efficiency. Any savings brought about by running artics on the M15 out of another depot would be eaten into by administrative expenses (travel time, etc.).
David
i agree completely about the economic impact of the run-on, run-off time, travel time and relief points on the M15 running out of another depot other than 126. makes no economic sense to the TA. then again this is the TA we're talking about.
No, this is BusTalk we're talking about. The idea came from here, not from the Department of Buses.
David
I decided to break my trip up into two parts since I only got to do any type fanning for two days. So here we go:
December 26
-- My day started in Downtown Dallas where I caught a GMC RTS II on route 19 to Baylor Hospital. On the return trip it was a Nova RTS-06. I then caught a the light rail (Blue Line) to the Cityplace subway Station where I took some photo's of the station. I then Caught the Red Line out to the Hampton Station where I met up with bus 4676 on Route 453 (also a NOva RTS) and took it to Southwest Center Mall.
-- Next I caught another Nova to the Redbird Transit Center. The Bus Number was 4443 and was also on Route 453. I quickly got some observation's about this bus and I found the Drivers seat was made by Recaro and looked very comfortable. There are also 3 security camera's placed througout all of the Nova buses in Dart's Fleet. The camera's were tested on the light rail cars a couple of years ago and are now placed on the buses. One is over the drivers head looking at the door, another is placed right below the inside led sign looking at the back of the bus, and the last one is in the back of the bus looking forward.
More coming soon...
The other obsevation's I made for Dec. 26 about the NOva's are that they are model T80206 and most were made in 1998. Part 2 is next.
With Amsterdam depot closing indefinitely, where will the Orions from that depot go?
[With Amsterdam depot closing indefinitely, where will the Orions from that depot go?]
Obviously, they'll go wherever NYCT's Department of Buses chooses to send them. When that decision is made, some BusTalker in the know will report on it.
When new 100th Street Depot open mid or late 2002 than the Amsterdam Depot will be close but they will be becoming a repair shop. Orions buses might go ethier Gun Hill Depot or other Depots. I know Gun Hill Depot already have couple 4xx series running on Bx28,Bx29,Bx30 & othere routes.
Peace
David J.
MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
All in all, a wierd morning for Ride-On. We had a freak frozen rain shower this morning which made things quite a mess. When I went out at about 6:45 to get the paper, it was raining but it wasn't frozen. About 15 minutes later, I headed for the subway and only encountered black ice a block from my house and then at several other locations along the way. Headed down into the Metro and got my normal T/O. When I got to Grosvenor, I got off the train, had traction on the granite edge, but as soon as I stepped onto the red normal tiles, I realized that it had all frozen over and one could barely walk! I managed to get to the overhang and the tiles there were, luckily, dry. The slippery conditions were found again as soon as I had exited the station and was walking towards the buses. At this time, the J5 had arrived on the other side of the station and the ladies who transfer from the J5 to the 37, some of which were wearing high heels, were trying to get to the shelter.
Most buses were late. The 6 seemed to be doing OK. The Rock Spring bound bus was a 5200 series (I got a photo to be developed). The Wheaton bound bus was 5151, one of the highest of that type I've seen. The 37 was Orion I 5525, arriving late due to the icy conditions. More people were going outbound than coming inbound, although this 30 foot thing really doesn't work for this run. The 7:15 46 from Montgomery College was a 35 foot Gillig although I didn't catch the number. I didn't see the 47 I mentioned yesterday. The other 37 was a CNG again although I didn't wait around to see what number it was.
More to come as time progresses!
Caught sight of #6356-a orion VI on the M1 today. Are all they #6350-#6359 assigned to MCH or are they still split and MV? Also, caught sight of a 30 or 35 foot RTS Academy Bus on Broadway near Worth Street. Also, after talking to a dispatcher, he reports that the X1 is next to return to its orignal route via Broadway next month. any rumor to this one?
That Academy RTS was on a Commuter Shuttle to take some workers to a Job Site
Yeah, nice way to give out info that I gave ya!
Well, it was sorta right...it's like an employee shuttle for either Merrill Lynch or some other company...it was, by the number of the bus and some info a friend gave me, #40, a Newark Airport shuttle bus, a 35 ft RTS, 96" wide. COntinental on the front, Academy in the rear...
Carlton
Celanairbus
cleanairbus.tripod.com
If I remember correctly, the 35 foot RTS's were used by Academy at Newark Airport when the monorail was shut down last year. I believe they were former Hertz buses (or another car rental company).
I happin to get a E-Mail and it happin to be a Shuttle to Transport workers to Merrill Lynch.
And I think that bus is a Ex Hertz RTS and they also to happin to have a Ex Hertz Gillig Phantom
IIRC, at least one Orion VI is assigned to MCH, probably a good idea to check out the roster at Transitalk.com to confirm this.
I think 6354-6359 are at MCH and 6350-6353 are at MHV. I rode 6352 on the M103 yesterday. Saw 6355 on M1.
#6352 M103
Enjoy!
Photo 1: WHOOOOOSH!!!!!!
Photo 2: Glistening In The Night.....
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Beautiful night shot, Trevor!!
Great Shots Trevor.......
Now why can't the TA keep there buses looking so clean. They look spotless even in the rain.
Nice Shots.
Robert
7595, I will guess Kinderkamack Avenue.
sheesh Kinderkamack ROAD - I've only lived in Bergen County for 33 years...
Correct!
Trevor
Hey Travis, what happened with that luncheon you where talking about?
Bro, I just started working for Rockland Coach, once I get my steady schedule of runs, I'll fully plan it, until then, CHILZNILZ!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I was thinking that it was #7995
BUT it's relly #7595
You mean, Kinderkamack ROAD.
Peace,
ANDEE
I corrected that 30 seconds after I posted :)
Yea, saw that afterwards. 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
Can you please post a 1024x768 version of the NJT RTS #1126? it would make a great desktop background
thanks,
Thanks for more "bus porn"! That MCI is freakin' gorgeous.
C
Anytime, I will try to keep bringing the goods.......
"You Got The $#!T, You Got The $#!T, Give Me The Money, QUICK"
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
And that RTS is kinda hot too.
The nighttime shot makes it look even sexier ... ah, what I would give to spend a night riding that ;-)
Wow, those are great shots! Some of the best yet!
And the clarity is amazing!
What speed film did you use for the first one?
When I would see MORE Neoplans on the 7 Line and would the 7 Line be a Wheelchair Line also?
I heard that Kansas City had a large portion of their bus fleet outfitted with batwings back on the 70`s. All manufacturers were represented, GM, Flxible and even AM Generals. Does anyone have pictures of these buses? Please post them either here, or on the TransitTalk web sites.
No Flxible's anywhere and all Neoplans have been retired. The only Neoplan I saw in the system was unpainted at a transmission shop.
Well... Being that WMATA has nearly completed the rehabbing of their Flxible Metro E buses I knew the day for the NABI artics were coming. This morning I spotted NABI #5212 (on route 70) sporting the new WMATA paint scheme. It looked pretty good but that's always the case before the advertising is applied. The two red stripes are actually a bit thicker and a further apart. ...Of course this is the day I decided not to carry my digital camera. Oh well...
Also - On Monday evening I was driving along Army-Navy Blvd. near the Pentagon when suddenly what appeared to be a new MCI came hauling *ss out of the Pentagon parking lot. I couldn't go after it because I was waiting in traffic with the light against us. The PRTC bus had the orange destinations signs and it was either a D4000 or D4500/01 - I really couldn't tell because the bus was moving that fast.
Wayne
Yeah, I've seen quite a few of the new PRTC buses. I saw several coming down the Beltway towards VA from Montgomery County a couple of weeks ago. They must have been coming from the factory.
I'll have to start looking out for the NABI's in their new paint scheme.
I haven't seen anything interesting in VA regarding WMATA vehicles. Other than seeing the new CNG's at the Montgomery Lot, they've actually been a pretty boring system to follow lately.
Do you know if they're D4000's or D4501's? I wonder if this means the end for their Eagle 15's. I saw two of them on the 14th Street Bridge HOV lanes right after I saw the fast moving MCI. Also I'd guess that the next time we see the NABI that was separated by the freight train - it will be in the new paint scheme also. Was it 5239???
Wayne
The MCI's look like D4500's as they appear longer than just a 40 foot bus. I really like how they look with the teal PRTC scheme and the orange destination signs.
I have a feeling that does mean the Eagles will be on their way out.
I'm trying to remember the number of the bus that was hit by the train. It was in the 5230's, I remember that. They actually reattached the two parts?
My thinking is that WMATA did intend to return that bus to service. I say this because I saw it a Bladensburg division and it didn't appear to have become a parts donor. If it is repaired... I wonder if WMATA or NABI will do the work.
Wayne
Hmm, that's a good question. I think WMATA has a pretty good repair dept., but maybe they'd use NABI's crew for assistance. That's great that it wasn't scrapped.
One time when I was at the Baltimore MTA garage, I saw workers putting a NABI artic back together, but I don't remember if it was MTA's crew members or NABI's or both. Modern technology is great!!
Anyone know why Riverdale Av is closed from its base @231st up the hill? All#7's now go north up Johnson Avenue...the roads been closed for the past few days...
Could be that the recent snow and ice made the steep hill treacherous for buses to negotiate. Of course, the alternate route the BX7 is taking via the BX10 and 20 also has some very steep hills, especially Johnson Avenue from Kappock down to 230th.
As of Sat 1/12...Riverdale Av is still closed...now concrete barriers
bar access @West 231st St..Still can't find out the reason for the closure..Looks like the BX7 will be on Johnson Ave for the forseable
future....
It appears a contractor was excavating and caused a partial collapse of the east retaining wall on Riverdale Avenue...thus the street closing...Now all northbound BX7's run on Johnson Ave...southbounds
run on a narrow service road to the west of Riverdale Ave..
I have been hearing rumors that MCI will make the announcement on Tuesday that they have acquired Nova Bus, moving the MCI coach back to Roswell and doing away with the RTS. Anybody here anything else.
I have not heard that, but if this happens, there should be now hope that the Flxible design will hopefully making a comeback to dominate the streets once again.
Tone
www.transitworld.org
>>I have not heard that, but if this happens, there should be now hope that the Flxible design will hopefully making a comeback to dominate the streets once again.<<
Who owns the design patent on the Flxible Metro ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Last I heard, I believe MCI does own the patent for the Flxible design.
Tone
>>Last I heard, I believe MCI does own the patent for the Flxible design<<
As "Laugh In's" Arte Johnson used to say.........very interesting !!
Bill "Newkirk"
Hello people.
My name is Ronnie for those who don't know.
First time visitor and my first response.
Before Flxible Corp. went out of business, they were doing a low floor project. It never made production as it was about 70 to 80% completed. China, although has the simular design to the U.S. version.
Flxible named their low floor Flxible Metro-G "Common Sense Bus".
I have read all your response about NovaBus plant in Rosswell being sold to MCI. My response to this: YEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!
A few of you people know that I'm a huge Flxible Metro fan. I print pictures of the Metros off the internet to collect and show my buddy who drives for TARTA(Toledo Area Regional Transit Authority) here in Toledo, Oh. He's a Bus enthusiast. Twenty-five years with TARTA and even some years with Lakefront lines.
NJ Transit Flxible Metro-Bs and Ds are my favorite Metros. They're also my favorite transit authority. I have bus models of the Metro-E: CTA(Chicago), T(Mininepolis & St. Paul), MTA NYCB, NJ Transit(Life, enjoy the trip ad.), and SEPTA. If MCI brings the standard and low floor design improvement Metros in the bus market, expect NJ Transit be all over them: so long Neoplan Transliners. Plus, transit authorities in Ohio. Why Ohio? That was the home of Flxible Corp. Transit authorities thought it was a good product, attractive, reasonable price, but most important they have a good relationship with Flxible Corp. Alot of transit authorities here in Ohio and across the U.S. miss the Flxible Metro. Ofcourse, I want forget us Bus enthusiasts, drivers, mechanics, transit buffs, Flxible fans, ect.
I hope it want be to soon. I would like to see a special display of the Metro high and low floors at the bus convention from MCI. I want them to make there point we're back in the transit market with a popular bus product, but much improved. Brochures, specs, options list flyers on the table and salesman for transit authorities to set appointments for a demonstrator at their site. Yea, I also wish MCI would manufacture all three buses- standard and low floor. They are: Flxible Metro E/G low floor, RTS T80-206/RTS-WFD/RTS Low floor, and the Classic standard floor and classic low floor. I mean a huge display at the Alantic Convention Center in Atlantic City, NJ.
Until then, you all have a great day!
Flxible lives on!!! -Ronnie
>>> I believe MCI does own the patent for the Flxible design <<<
Yeah, and Ford still has all the drawings for its Model T, but don't expect to see them rolling off the assembly lines anytime soon. MCI knows which side of its bread the butter is on.
Tom
I think that it's been discussed before that there's a few reasons that MCI can't or won't bring back the Metro.
Chief among them that they're happy in the motorcoach market and the last thing they want to do is (1) redesign the Metro, (2) build it, (3) test it on site, (4) demo it, (5) evaluate and then repeat all of those steps numerous times until it is suitable fore service.
Also, I heard that MCI doesn't have some of the necessary parts to even produce the bus.
Besides, why do way with a proven RTS design, that only needs minor modifications to reactivate a somewhat inferior product line? That's not good business sense.
well, if MCI has bought NOVABUS, this could get interesting. I mean, MCI does have local buses(#709-#716 assigned to Green Lines)-If these are what the buses will look like for Local service that the TA and the DOT gets, this could get interesting
If MCI bought NOVABUS and did end production of the RTS,it would be interesting to see if it would reintroduce the Classic(which is the true heir appearent to the fishbowl)or better yet the return of the Metro.
Yes, let's also bring back the Pinto while we're at it. There's a reason why they don't make New Looks anymore. Their time has long sinced passed. Anything associated with their design should be melted down and turned into paper clips.
I was watching Eyewitness News last night and they had a story about security. Less NYPD officers at the tunnels and near the United Nations. Speaking of which, I saw an M15 bus pulling away from a stop on 1st in front of the U.N. does this mean that the M27, M42, M50 and M104 are back to normal? That was shot that morning. They showed those around snow plows blocking 1st Av and now they disappeared. Also, fewer stop checks at the Lincoln Tunnel. NYC must have a death wish BUT since this is BusTalk....are those routes back to normal based on the information I gave you guys and what I saw on T.V.?
Ray
It's coming up on the 4th month since the attacks. Granted manny times from now on people are going to get bad memories whenever it comes up on the 11th of each month. However, that does not mean that sites on Manhattan Is. are always going to be wrapped up in security. Case in point, the subway tunnels: there used to be at least two police officers positioned at the station before an underwater crossing. Now in many cases there are only one (except probably the #7 line, which passes directly under the UN HQ). And if Kelly has his way, that will change very soon as well.
Good point.
>>>Now in many cases there are only one....<<<
Try none.
Peace,
ANDEE
<Av and now they disappeared. Also, fewer stop checks at the Lincoln Tunnel. NYC must have a death wish>>
I made a similar observation not too long ago at a dinner meeting I was hosting for a civic organization I belong to.
You know what I got as a response?
I was told that people are used to live in a free society where they don't want to see checkpoints and security measures.
I just stared at the person. This person must live by the motto: ignorance is bliss.
Freedom does not mean acting recklessly. It does not mean putting on rose colored glasses and pretending that all is right with the world. Freedom is something you need to defend and make sure it is not threatened. It does not mean acting without caution or not being careful.
>>> Less NYPD officers at the tunnels and near the United Nations ... Also, fewer stop checks at the Lincoln Tunnel. NYC must have a death wish <<<
It is not a death wish, but a realization that an economy can be bled to death as well as suffer physical attacks. Security is expensive, and like insurance premiums does not immediately contribute anything productive to the economy.
Although they should not have come as a complete surprise, the attacks on 9/11 came out of nowhere as far as the authorities were concerned, and therefore with the fear that there was an all out coordinated terrorist attack on multiple targets, maximum security everywhere was ordered regardless of the cost. Just as an individual who is attacked gets a sudden rush of adrenalin to give him extra strength, but cannot maintain his health if that adrenalin level continues, the city cannot maintain maximum security forever without suffering economic harm. Therefore there is bound to be a scaling back of the extreme security measures which were in effect at the end of September.
Tom
The following Ride-On buses were sighted today:
5154 on the #6
5410 (Silver Bus) on the 47 on the 7:30 something trip from Grosvenor
Two other 35 foot Gillig Phantoms on the 47
Doesn't look to me like any new Orion Vs are here since the Gilligs have yet to be moving. I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary on the southern routes I see daily.
Also, another person complained about the socializing driver.
I took the B/O exam back in 98 and scored an 87.50, my list number for TA is 6112. Should I re-take the exam or remain on the same list that will expire in 2003?
If you havent been called yet, i would sign up for it. Or you can call 1250 bway and find out what number they are up to on that list from may of 99. You would have to weigh the fact if you're on the borderline of getting called or they will terminate that list right b4 you then you are out of contention for another 4 years......IMHO, a wise $35 investment in exchange for starting at $33K. I would pay the $35 bucks and take it again.
You guys are slipping! On Monday morning, there was a major accident on Archer Ave involving MTA bus #9563, a "dollar" van, two cars and a LIRR bridge abutment. Bus 9563 was traveling eastbound on Archer Ave after just leaving Parsons Blvd. There were no passengers on the bus as it was deadheading to the 238th Street terminal of the Q84. Anyway, the bus was behind an illegal van. The van stopped short, causing the bus to skid on the snow/rain-slicked roadway. The bus rear-ended the van, and hit two cars in succession traveling in the OPPOSITE direction on Archer Avenue before swerving sharply to the right and slamming into the LIRR bridge abutment at the old Union Hall Street station entrance.
There were six injuries, including the bus operator and two passengers in the van. The bus itself is MASHED, with extensive front end damage, and apparant frame damage. I've seen other buses scrapped with less damage than this. So badly is 9563 wrecked that Jamaica Depot personnel have stored the bus outside and placed a blue tarp around its front end. I've never seen an accident bus stored in such fashion. During the AM and PM rush, photo ops are available of the bus, as it is stored along the back fence of the yard. The good news is that since the bus is only 3+ years-old (it entered service in July, 1998) it would most likely be repaired. The bad news is, like a car, once a bus is involved in a bad accident, it is never the same again.
Hmmmm, where were the Queens Bus Talkers all week?
Mark
I don't know, but let's hope the van operator had no insurance so the injured passengers get no compenstation! That may teach a few people to stay away from those stupidity mobiles.
"That may teach a few people to stay away from those stupidity mobiles."
Although I call The Bronx my home, there are quite a few people in Queens who might disagree on that.
In my view, there is something about bad weather, especally snowy and icy weather, that is associated with people driving ultra-aggressivly. I was out on the roads that day, and I can recall a number of instances where I was bypassed by people who were doing at least 15-30 MPH over the speed limit (which, according to the New York State DMV, is made for a GOOD day), had to stop short because people cut in front of me for God-knows-what-reason, and witnessed some pretty nastly wrecks that probably happened because the "Cracker-Jack-box-licensed" driver ignored simple ROW rules. I just take solace in the fact that nowadays I observe the speed limit, look around when I'm driving, and use techniques I learned while trying to get my license.
>>> let's hope the van operator had no insurance so the injured passengers get no compenstation! <<<
Is New York a no fault State? If not, it will not be van operator the injured passengers will be looking to for compensation.
Tom
>>>I don't know, but let's hope the van operator had no insurance so the injured passengers get no compenstation!<<<
Boy, you're a regular humanitarian, aren't you. Tell me, would your tune change if any of your friends or family members were among the injured?
Peace,
ANDEE
I don't think any of my friends or family would ever ride in those "illegal" vans. I know that debates have been going on for many years regarding vans (illegal or not) vs. transit buses. However, I have seen with my own eyes, and I'm sure any B/O who works on Merrick Blvd in Queens or Utica or Flatbush Aves in Brooklyn can vouch for me, the agressive and unsafe manner in which most of these vans operate. I'm not saying that the van passengers deserve to be injured, just that if this kind of thing happened more often, maybe the message might get out and less people might ride the vans (a pipe dream, I know!).
No one is going to bother the vans, particularly when it takes some heat off of the City of New York for not allowing NYCDOT to authorize more private lines.
As you know Mark, I've been in Brooklyn lately, and have not been able to give much info on Jamaica depot. Unfortunatly, the B/O is going to get blamed for this, which means the passengers on that illegal van will get some compensation from NYCTA, a rather annoying circumstance. I'll have to stop by Jamaica depot and have a look at 9563 myself. I hope the operator is OK. If you know who the operator is, drop me an E-mail. And yes, I'm quite sure 9563 will be repaired. Anybody remember "THE PHOENIX"?
BIG AL
>>>Unfortunatly, the B/O is going to get blamed for this, which means the passengers on that illegal van will get some compensation from NYCTA, a rather annoying circumstance.<<<.
While it may indeed be unfortunate the fact, as stated, that the bus rear ended the van indicates that the B/O was not in full control of his vehicle.
Peace,
ANDEE
I seem to recall a 1970 Flxible at MSBA (#434) with that nickname. It was the last '70 Flx MSBA had. They spent all that money fixing it up only to scrap it a short time later. What a waste!
>>>...the bus was behind an illegal van.<<<
Is this a known fact that that this van was illegal? It is not good to make assumptions. Many of these vans ARE legal and are regulated by the TLC.
>>>There were six injuries, including the bus operator and two passengers in the van. The bus itself is MASHED, with extensive front end damage, and apparant frame damage. I've seen other buses scrapped with less damage than this. So badly is 9563 wrecked that Jamaica Depot personnel have stored the bus outside and placed a blue tarp around its front end. I've never seen an accident bus stored in such fashion. During the AM and PM rush, photo ops are available of the bus, as it is stored along the back fence of the yard. The good news is that since the bus is only 3+ years-old (it entered service in July, 1998) it would most likely be repaired. The bad news is, like a car, once a bus is involved in a bad accident, it is never the same again. <<<
Let's hope the people are OK. Screw the bus, it can be replaced.
Peace,
ANDEE
I hates those Dollar vans! I always have abnd I always will. Most bus operators that I've spoken to before I moved out to Long Island told me that they wish those vans would go out of business. Of course, that's wishful thinking but I wish it did!
Ray
Don't forget, dollar vans came into existence because the great TA could not provide proper bus service. If the TA had it's act together dollar vans would never have come into being, supply and demand you know. The TA has no one to blame but themselves for dollar vans.
Peace,
ANDEE
Yeah, I know but they should do is to bring back the Q5AS or Q5ALS. That bus runs from Merrick Blvd-229th St-Rosedale to Brookville Blvd-147th Av-Rosedale. It was terminated around 1988? I think it was December 11, 1988 when the Parsons/Archer station opened. Also, bring back the Q86 (formerly the Q5S). These could help somewhat.
Ray
Let's go back in time to the 60's and 70's on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn. The sun was shining, birds were chirping, and all was relatively well with the world. People were standing at bus stops up and down the line, and the B-41 did it's job as best as possible. True, there was the occaisional "bunching" of buses, but that was and is common for long, busy lines like the B-41.
Fast forward to today. You have passenger vans careening in and out of traffic, stopping short when they see a "fare" or creating noise pollution by constantly sounding those annoying horns. A full-size transit bus with plenty of seats is about to pull in to a stop, and do you know what happens? 2 or 3 of the people at the bus stop step in to the street to "flag down" a van, causing the van to block the bus stop, causing the flow of traffic to be disrupted on the avenue, and causing the transit bus to be late as well.
What I am getting at is that years ago people had the maturity to realize that public buses could not run every 30 seconds, and they knew that they had to wait a few minutes. It seems that today, people have the attention spans of GNATS, and they want IMMEDIATE service, otherwise they will melt away or something.
I don't think that's the T.A.'s fault.
I will repeat, the TA has no one to blame but itself for dollar vans. Don't cloud the issue. The reason these vans came into existence, in the 80s, was the TAs constant whittling down of service. Elimination of routes etc, etc,
Peace,
ANDEE
I am no "company man" by any means (especially since I don't work for the company in question), but anyway: The B-41, the B-46, and the B-35, all routes that compete with vans, never had service reductions or eliminations to the best of my knowledge. In recent years, even with service IMPROVEMENTS such as 365 days per year limited stop service on the B-41 and B-46, people STILL flag down vans when 1 or more buses are visible! What does that tell you?
By the way, I never thought in a million years that on BusTalk, a message board that normally caters to people interested in buses, would I have a "discussuion" where I would have to defend BUSES over vehicles that make the lives of transit buffs and employees miserable.
Who would have thunk?
I am in no way defending the actions of the van drivers. Some of them are indeed dangerous. I do not use them. My only contention is that the TA created the problem. They should have driven them out of business when they had the chance. Now, it's too late. BTW, I'm a transit buff but the vans certainly do not make my life miserable.
Peace,
ANDEE
After all, couldn't the TA bought smaller buses and vans and used them on certain routes? They could use them on some lesser used routes and free up some more equipment for busy routes. Or this equipment could be used to handle overflow problems on busier routes.
Suffolk Transit and to a lesser extent the Hart System use different length equipment on different routes.
Of course this would lead to a two-tier salary scale and a whole discussion as to whether the TWU would allow it.
Those three bus routes compete with dollar vans daily. Especially the B41 where the dollar vans run the whole route, (at least up to Smith St-Livingston Sts). Other buses that compete with the dollar vans but on weekdays is the B6 and B8 buses. Notice that all 5 of these buses run in an area that the councilwoman supports the idea of dollar vans. (I wonder why?) Dollar vans will stay in competition with the B35,41, and 46 buses for a long time to come.
I'm with you Ray, I will never ride those dollar vans either. Although it isn't a problem in Ridgewood, I just hope it stays that way!
B13- RTS Nova #9171
-
Will the drought at Fresh Pond ever end? 3 years and still going.
Putting tarps on damaged vehicles until they are allowed to be repaired is nothing new. It can take years until the insurance companies and lawyers are done with the vehicle for evidentiary purposes.
The bus involved in the Thanksgiving Day 1999 accident in Brooklyn was still not repaired as of 8/26/01.
If you get a chance get over to the DOT yard on Flatlands Avenue in Canarsie. They had the Command CNG bus that hit the underpass at Belmont Racetrack under a tarp when I was at the yard a while back. I believe there are pictures of the destroyed bus on either Transit World or Transittalk. Also search the archives Bus-talk. IIRC someone put up a post with some of the pictures about 2 years ago.
There's also Dollar Cabs that run along Jamaica Ave to as far as the Queens/Nassau Line and I have been in them before and once Me and my MOM got kick out and a few others on Jamaica Ave somewhere past 171 St b/c the driver was running late for his end of the shift and I cause him to be late b/c I was getting on Slowly into the cab and caused most people pay anouther $1(Ha! Ha!).
Overall those Dollar Cabs are Ok BUT I won't ride them nomore since it's of a discomfort that they take about 4 People per cab(3 in the back,1 in the front) and I feel like I am being sueeze in too much in the back and anouthr thing is that you have to hear the music that the driver got on and somepeople won't even like that Music on the radio.
I just came back from viewing 9563 at Jamaica. For those of you who want to come down for photo ops, I would say, don't waste your time. The bus has a tightly rapped blue tarp around the front of it, like Q5 said, so you really can't see the damage from the outside. And unless you work for NYCT, don't bother trying to get in. The rear doors were stuck open, probably by the FDNY forcing them open to get in. I went inside the bus. The damage is totally confined to the front module. The rest of the bus looked fine. Needless to say, I've seen worse, on buses 4588 and 3916. 4588 was the worst. It was totally demolished in the front, with the first seats on both sides of the bus shoved back and the floor buckled in the middle of the bus. The bus was scrapped. It had hit a tree. 3916 also hit a tree causing similar but in my opinion a little worse damage than on 9563. 3916 was repaired and converted to a soft seater. On 9563, the farebox was removed along with the farebox lights behind the operator, so I would say the bus will be out of service for a long time pending legal hearings. The operator involved, who's name I will not give, is a 2 year female veteran.
One other point. 9563 does rank up there among the top 3 when it come to heavy damage. 3916, 4588 and 9563 all sustained severe frontal damage, and all 3 buses were working the Q84 line when it happened!
BIG AL
And as a side note this leaves Jamaica Depot at least three buses short for this current pick. They were already operating one short, then 4216 which has been down for weeks and is being stored at Stengel, and now 9563. No doubt, this is light stuff for the 2001 Maintenance Champions. Officially, JAM was #1 in maintenance and MDBF (Mean Distance Between Failures) for 2001.
For those that remember, this is a VERY similar accident to Ms. 8808 of Kingsbridge, she was out for a while but now she's back looking brand new, I see her all the time on the Bx36.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
RCBO
Good point. Based on 8808, I guess you could expect 9563 to be back sometime in the distant future.
Mark
I would also say 8808 was alot worse than 9563, so 9563 should be making a full recovery sometime in the future.
BIG AL
This is the first time I've posted a message on "Bus Talk". If anyone is familiar with me from "Sub Talk" I'm #3 West End Jeff. I'm only posting this message on "Bus Talk" because I spotted a brand new articulated bus today on Tuckahoe Rd. in Yonkers on a test run. The bus that I saw carried the roster #502. These are expected to be replacing the older model articulated buses numbered from 600 to 661 over the next few months to my best guess. If anyone has any information on these new articulated buses that are going to be used on the Westchester County "Bee Line" system please let me know. If any of them have entered service they'll probably be seen on routes 1, 1C, 1T, 1W, 4,5(occasionally),6(occasionally) 7,13(occasionally),20, 40, 42, 60, 61 if experience is any indicator.I'm not sure of the engine & transmission configuration.
#3 West End Jeff
Jeff, there were photos here on an earlier thread. Here is the address:
http://bustalk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=42504
Take care!
Teacher Donald Lee was killed as his SUV was hit by a car which ran a stop sign. That car pushed the SUV into a NJT bus with no passengers. It was a Flxible Metro BUT I did not see the number. It looked like a Metro-B (3000-3280, 3500-3605). This happened in Passic County. The teacher died but the other two survived. It was on Eyewitness News last night at 11:00. Just thought you guys should know. The bus was badly damaged on the right side. Similiar to bus 9563 from Jamaica Depot that "Q5 Merrick" was talking about.
Ray
All of the details are at this address:
http://www.bergen.com/news/busjb200201117.htm
Take care!
My friend and I were talking about how things have changed in our neighborhood in Jamaica/Jamaica Estates/Jamaica Hills, Queens. We agreed that there is a need for a FEW more bus routes. Just like in Brooklyn, you have the X37, X38, X42 bus routes...Queens needs some NEW routes as well. I know that those routes were form because of 9/11 BUT these routes that I'm proposing could be useful. No, I did not talk to the MTA about this and I'm sure that they are not even thinking about discussing this issue now but at least I can share this with you guys. These ideas just come to me. At least I'm contributing to BusTalk. LOL!
Here are some of my routes:
Q49 (A revised Q49. Not the on that use to go to Jamaica Av-121st St-Richmond Hill)
Jamaica Av-168th St-Jamaica, to 130th Av-238th St-Laurelton via Jamaica Av, Hollis Av, Springfield Blvd, Francis Lewis Blvd to 121st Av and follow the Q84 to the last stop.
Q50 (there is a Q50 from what I hear. It runs from Main St-Roosevelt Av in Flushing to the Hugh J. Grant Circle. It's on the Destination list but never used. That's why you have a route called the Q44!)
The Q50 would run from Queens Blvd-Union Tpke-Kew Gardens (near the Q37's last stop), to Francis Lewis Blvd-McLaughlin Av-Holliswood via Grand Central Pkwy Service Rd. This would be good for people who live along or near the GCP. This way they do not have to walk to catch the Q17/Q75 or Q30/Q31 or Q44. I have seen buses on the service rd. I use to live on 169th St between Gothic Dr and 84th Av (two blocks south of the GCP) and I would know. WHen Homelawn St was being repaved, the buses (Q30, Q31) went to 168th Pl then onto 168th St bypassing Jamaica and Edison High Schools (happy day for them) then east on the GCP to Utopia Pkwy. Southbound, they would go east on the GCP to Edgerton Blvd (178th St) and south until Hillside Av.
Well, I'll stop here. Let me know what you guys think. Oh, the Q49 would be a JAMAICA Depot route and the Q50 would be a QV route. You could used the Q46 limited drivers on that route. Just a suggestion.
Ray
Before anybody can get any additional routes, let's address two simple issues. Where do you get the extra buses when apparently nobody can make a decent bus anymore and most importantly, where do you store them when nobody wants a bus depot within 10 miles of their house?
BIG AL
Al,
The two routes I mentioned come from JAM and QV. They have plenty of buses in my opinion. No new depots are necessary. If anything, just add a few more buses like QV is getting the Orions. So, anything is possible. I'm not saying that we should have a limited service but decent service. The Q49 would come from JAM and the Q50 would come from QV. Both routes could be like the Q42. Not operate all the time. Remember it's just a thought. I know my ideas are not EXCELLENT WHEN THE MTA STOPS WHAT THEIR DOING AND SAYS, "GOOD JOB!" I know that will not happen.
Ray
Ray,
I know where you are going, but there is one thing you do not understand. Both Jamaica and QV are packed to the bone with buses right now. In fact, it's so bad at Jamaica that buses have to be parked on the front apron at night and along Merrick Blvd. They have to post an operator at night on guard duty just to keep the buses from being vandalized. That's why these two depots can not see any additional buses sent to them right now, especially Jamaica. Also, if you take buses from the other lines to create the new routes you mentioned, you are compromising service, something that fuels the van issue in the other bustalk posts. Until a new and bigger depot is built, creating new lines for S.E. Queens or even seriously improving the existing service will continue to only be a pipe dream.
BIG AL
Without question, Jamaica needs an entirely new structure. Al can elaboarte more on the problems at JA.
At Queens Village, our structure is sound, but space limited. Both depots are over-capacity as it stands. NYCT has purchased the former "Lincoln Studiois" building across from the depot. I'm not sure exactly how they're planning to use the space, but I have heard discussions of everything from condemning and raizing a sub facility, to closing-off the now-public 97th Avenue entrance to the depot grounds (and entrance to Lincoln Studios).
Our employee parking lot has been redesigned 3 times within the last 6 years to accomodate more employees.
The bigger picture is a fourth depot in Queens. Ideally, Jamaica would be replaced off-site, while a new depot was built elsewhere. The 2 new facilities should include three fuel stations and fueling capabilities for CNG buses outside.
The nightmare would be Jamaica sharing Queens Village during construction. Hopefully, we'll not have to discuss that....
I understand there was a proposal to build a new depot near Kennedy Airport to replace the current Jamaica Depot. When that depot is completed the plan was to replace the current Jamica Depot and to create a 4th Queens Divison garage.
What happened to it?
Thank You
I was actually hoping that you would take up where I left off and provide that info. I have no idea. Anyone?
I recall seeing a report at an MTA Committee Real Estate Meeting about a new garage last spring
Thank You
Is there a URL? Would love to read it. By the way, is the employee TENS site available online? I know it's available within the depots and locations, but I can NEVER access it online.
Sorry i was at the MTA when i saw the report. I do not believe it is available on line. It was the same day that the MTA Board approved the current Queens Blvd service plan
Thank You
Thanks anyway.
TENS is NYC Transit's INTRAnet (as opposed to INTERnet) website. It's only available within NYC Transit's internal network.
David
That answers my question. It has an IP address, but no DNS. I'd try to access the site but to no avail. Thanks.
The deal for the new Jamaica depot to be built opposite the post office in JFK fell through about 6 months ago. From what I heard, the Port Authority changed it's mind and decided it doesn't want a bus depot on it's property anymore. The sad fact is that I was serious when I said NOBODY wants a bus depot built near them. Brooklyn67's nightmare probably has the biggest chance of coming through right now being that they are more and more pondering just tearing down the old Jamaica depot and building a new one in it's place and splitting up the routes to share QV and Stengel depots while the construction is in process.
BIG AL
they could always take some lines from jamaica and send them to Jamaica Bus lines. For instance, let Jamaica depot lose the Q4 and Q42 routes. Send them over to Jamaica Bus Lines. Jamaica Bus Lines only has 4 local routes-surely they could do the work.
Will never happen. TA Queens is ATU and Jamaica Buses Inc is TWU.
No way will a union just give up work
Thank You
The 4 and the 42 to JBL???
ATU 1056 will consider that idea for all of .....oh........ 6 seconds
We'd accept a 20/50 non-contributory, a 10/15/20 increase over 3 years with no give-backs, elimination of progressive discipline, revertion to fault/no-fault accident ratings, elimination of the "regional bus company" discussions, and a protection clause for new hirees.
There... that took about the same 6 seconds.
:-)
That Q50 you propose.....i doubt anyone in Holliswood wants a bus running down their street. And i doubt alot of those people in those houses dont take the the bus and if they had to get to the subway, they could either take the 17 or 75 to 179 street or the 17or 175 north and transfer to the 46.
Sacrificing 46 LTD runs for a new route?? If the 46 ain't broke, don't fix it by taking trips off of it..it's only been operating since 1974
First, that street in Holliswood is McLaughlin Av which is a wide street for a bus to run on. Second, I'm not saying take trips off the Q46. I'm saying that I see Q46 buses racing up and down the GCP during rush hours deadheading to Kew Gardens or Oakland Gardens. After rush hour, if those guys ain't doing nothing but just sitting at the garage (unless if they do a trip on a different route) could do that route during the day. Who knows! BTW, Mc Laughlin Av is sort of a service rd to th GCP going east. The route would end at Francis Lewis Blvd and Mc Lughlin Av (GCP) where you could transfer to the Q76! Remember, it's just a thought! Don't you feel bad for the people living on the servic rd who have to walk five to six blocks in either direction for a bus? Or to walk past Jamaica and Edison High Schools to catch the Q65 when there are fights over there. I would know. I got into trouble once. So that's my reason.
Ray
The Q-46 buses you see deadheading via the GCP are either deadheading to make a scheduled trip, or deadheading to pull in and go home or eat lunch. We don't deadhead then hang around with nothing to do. I thought you knew that every second of a bus operators day is accounted for, Ray.
Secondly, this supposed Q-50 out of QV would require more buses, because we can barely make score as it is. For the record, a rather unsafe practice at the expense of YOU, our riders, is "turning around the b/o line" to make score in spite of the fact that these buses were logged as defective (for whatever reason).
Lastly, Queens Village Depot is already in violation with the Comminuty Board. In 1973, the agreement signed included a clause that required the NYCTA to house 100% of the fleet indoors. Today, we house buses on the rail, behind the maintenance area, and elsewhere, in complete violation and disregard for the community. Why? Because although NYCT has "officially" dropped the word "Authority" from the agency description to appear warmer and fuzzier, it is, in fact, an authority that does whatever it wants, whenever it wants, regardless of contracts signed or laws enacted.
Hypocracy runs rampant within the NYCTA.
Does anyone have any info on this issue
Phases 1 and 3 will start on January 21, as follows (Phase 2 will start later and I don't have the information handy now):
B63 southbound: regular route, right on 60th Street, left on 4th Avenue, continue on 4th Avenue into regular route
B63 northbound: continue on 4th Avenue, right on 60th Street, left on 5th Avenue into regular route
B64 westbound: continue along 86th Street, left on 3rd Avenue, left on 88th Street (residents'll just LOVE that one), left on 4th Avenue to 86th Street stand
David
[left on 88th Street]
This won't last very long..LOL
Thank you
So the buses are turning around via 3 av and Marine av,I am correct (the B63)
steve
As far as I am aware, B63 buses will be using their normal turnaround routing.
David
thank you
B63 s/b from 86th Street:
5th Avenue to 94th Street, right on 94th
left onto 4th Avenue
right onto Marine Avenue
left onto 3rd Avenue
left onto Shore Road
--terminal--
I feel like I'm on PCP looking at the off the wall paint scheme......
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
That looks so COOL! I hope they use that on their Neoplans they getting Next Year
I hope to hell not! That Bus is a hazard especially the dark rear!
Trevor
Hazard? Why that bus is a hazard?
I think they are. Part of their publicity effort.
Looks like that paint scheme was designed by the same person who designed the new SEPTA blizzard white with high color band on top scheme!!
Bill "Newkirk"
That bus was pictured in the NYTimes a few days ago.
Yeah Yeah I know, I have the article cut out, but some of us here don't get the times. OK? OK...........
So quit raining on the parade!
RCBO.....
Right you are, Trevor! My brows don't go up that high, anyway.
Well, Trevor's pictures are far superior to virtually any picture in the Times...
Thank You C.R., I try very hard to do so!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
RCBO.....
The Times was pretty crappy, I must say Trevor's was up to the usual standard and I hope he keeps it up.
This was the "styling exercise" by NJT's new "design guru". They are actiually paying a guy six figures a year to consult on various appearance concerns within the corporation, and he was given a Volvo to repaint. Warsh was quoted as saying he did not particularly like this scheme, but it was just a one-off.
If you have a registration with the NY Times website, here's the article link:
New York Times article
Boy, I was wondering how NJ Transit was planning to spend that fare increase. Why do I get the feeling that NJT is taking pages out of SEPTA's book on how to spend money on silly things...
This is pre fare increase, so that statement is null and void, when the fare increase happens and then silly shit starts happening then we can make that comment.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
RCBO
www.transitalk.com
The B61 was rerouted onto Miguiness street when Manhattan ave. was reconstructed. My question is why didn't they leave it on Miguiness rather than put it back on Manhattan ave, traffic is lighter on Miguiness than Manhattan ave?
the reason is quite obvious in my opinion. that was always the route before. it also is where all the shops are. and why would the city pay all that money to install the pads at the bus stops. as operating on that line for most of the last 5 years i hated driving on macgunness blvd.sure you save time but you are also run off the road by tractor trailers thinking they were on the expressway. the blvd was a very dangerous street in my opinion . its a speed way!!!
I bought a Johnson Model D bus farebox at a Manhattan flea market about 11 years ago. It has been in storage awaiting restoration, but now I have the incentive to do it.
The prior owner must had attempted to restore it by removing the paint right down to the copper body. He didn't remove all the paint. there still some light gray paint on it. Now NYCTA Johnson "D" fareboxes were painted black as I remember. The ones used in the Brooklyn PCCs were painted green as I was told becuse their motors ran on a different voltage than the buses. And now the question:
Does anyone here know any local bus systems that had light gray painted Johnson "D"s ? Any New Jersey or Queens companies ?
Your help is appreciated.
Bill "Newkirk"
It's a good possibility for the Newark City Subway since they did carry the lovely Grey Scheme on the exterior.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
RCBO
Back on the "Buses on TV/Movie" Thread from a couple weeks back:
WHERE: LAW AND ORDER, tonight jan 11
WHAT: NYCTA RTS PA1576 with aluminum wheels and an MTV decal next to the door.
let the responses begin.....
Might be a west coast imposter as several former Long Beach, CA RTS live here in LA done up as NYCTA including a 35 foot 03 former Avis!
I have seen it a few times and photographed it here in LA.
ITS STRANGE!
Blue
Nope. 1576 is really an ex-NYC Transit RTS II-04 from 1981. It ran out of Flushing/Casey Stengel if memory serves. NYCT sold it to a scrapper, who sold it to AA Transportation in Connecticut. It's been sold again since, and I don't recall who has it now.
David
I wonder if it was sold to the same company that owns "PA4199". That particular bus was seen on a L&O episode about three years ago...
Yes, both are owned by Picture Cars East in Brooklyn.
Thanks for the updates.
I know the NY imposters here in LA have appeared in NYPD Blue, as well as many other "Los York" movies.
Blue in LA
Wasn't 35 feet. Law and Order is made in NYC.
Everything looked legit.
Also at the end of the episode the victim and her son get on a Coach USA MCI 102 E (Renaissance) that is marked "Dallas". It appeared to be filmed at Riverside Drive. She gets on as if its a normal stop for an OTR bus. Not filmed at the PABT.
Also couldn't get off the couch quick enough to catch which CUSA company the bus was from...
I previously wrote a post about this bus on Bus Talk back on Sun Jan 28 18:32:31 2001, post # 25413. I may have seen the bus being filmed for the TV episode you've seen. Here is the link to the archived post:
adhttp://bustalk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/btarchives.cgi?read=25000:25413
I know you guys and gals have them, we all do, but what would you say is your biggest PET PEEVE about driving a bus.
Is it the passengers who:
* Go Fare Mining, pulling out the fare nickel by nickel?
* Have a BO problem and want to sit immediately behind you, making you hesitate to hit the brakes?
* Ask you, and then re-ask you the obvious?
* Will counteract your good information you give a lost passenger with their own BAD info?
* Won't walk back 20 feet to board your bus when you're behind 2 cars at a long light you don't want to get stuck at again?
* Wait until you pull up and open doors to decide to put their cigarette out, then treat you to an exhale full of smoke?
Is it the other private drivers out there who:
* Cut you off at an intersection, just to go to the 7-11?
* Double park in front of someone's house, because they're too good to pull up the 30 feet to the open curb?
* Will break their back to cut you off, only to slow up?
* Will honk at you for making a bus stop, like the patrons are supposed to hop on a moving bus?
or Is it the Stupervisors who:
* will try to write you up for running ahead of your Follower's time (i.e. bad eyesight)?
* will give you completely opposing instructions to follow, depending on who and when you get it?
I'm sure that there are many on here who certainly have their own Pet Peeve!
No need for me to say, I have the same dammit pet peeves.....
Including:
1) People who comes up to my door during a layover and knocks and ask me am I the next bus or what bus am I.
2) People that wait till you pull up, stop, open the door then decide that this isn't the bus, they wanted.
3) WHEELCHAIRS! Nuff Said!
4) People ask you what is your destination, after they'd looked at the sign at least twice. Especially with the new buses and the LARGE, Readable from 40 blocks away signs.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
RCBO......
My pet peeve even though I am not a B/O is when cars pull in front of the bus and drop someone off, causing you to slam on your brakes.
Now that is one passenger that SHOULD not be picked up.
I call it "pop and drop"!
I am not a driver, but I hate that too. Over the summer, I was riding a Flxible Metro up in Pittsburgh on the 11A McKnight (notorious route for tight, almost impossible running time). The operator, a friend of mine was already stressed out... Over 15 minutes late, the bus had already overheated two times and between bargaining on the radio for a bus change and being behind schedule with a full load, the last thing she needed was a car to cut us off as we came down a hill full speed, slam on it's breaks which forced into the left lane. Very close to creating a nasty accident. We practically came to a full stop, and then the passenger of the car wants on the bus. NO WAY! After the operator screamed some obsenties not to be mentioned here, we proceeded on without that passenger. What nerve some people got.
I only drove a bus for one year, and it's been a few years since then, but I can clearly say that my A-Number-One pet peeve was ...
TAXIS!!!!!!
Worst example - I was driving in the left center lane of a four-lane highway on a rainy winter day when a taxi comes racing up my left side, and cuts right in front of me and goes across all four lanes of traffic to exit the highway on the right. I mean, this a**hole swerved mere feet in front of me while I was going about 40 MPH. I jammed on the brakes to avoid a sure collision, and the rear end of my RTS-04 went skidding out into the next lane on the right, and left me diagonally across the two lanes. If there had been any cars immediately adjacent to or behind my bus, we'd have had a major collision. And that wasn't my only close call with taxicabs either. Friggin' maniacs.
Jim D.
JD
Double parking is also pretty bad. Big problem in Queens.
Every single one the peeves you mentioned gets under my skin. It's a wonder that more bus drivers don't become mass murderers.
I don't think there's enough bandwidth for my list....
LOL
the best pet peeve of them all is the guy or gal that boards the bus with about ten metrocards and the last one he tries is the one that works!!!!!
another pet peeve of mine is when i can`t get to the curb and i have allready kneeled the bus to the ground and a passenger at the end of the line of boarding people starts yelling why i didn`t lower the bus. my answer to them is that it is broken . meanwhile the bus is now stuck because the kneeler won`t raise . not really lol
Control of New Flyer will be sold to New York equity fund
Financial Post - Canada; Jan 11, 2002
WINNIPEG - New Flyer Industries has agreed to sell a controlling interest in the company to a New York-based private equity fund, which will invest more than $40-million into the bus manufacturer.
The Winnipeg-based company has signed a letter of intent with KPS Special Situations Fund, but the deal likely won't be completed until the end of February, said Paul Smith, spokesman for New Flyer, on Wednesday.
"Some confidentiality needs to remain in place for now," Smith said, adding he could not comment on what percentage of the company KPS will acquire.
It is expected the province will provide support to New Flyer through a loan, and New Flyer will enter into a new credit agreement with its bank.
"As the province is involved, I'd think it's safe to assume it's an indication New Flyer will stay in Winnipeg," he said.
However, this will not affect layoffs announced late last year of 500 Winnipeg employees, including 400 Canadian Auto Workers. The workers were to be laid off in March, but that was bumped up to January. The company said laying off almost a third of its Winnipeg workforce was necessary because of a drop in orders.
"The business plan we put in place for this year will remain," Smith said.
Jan den Oudsten, chairman and CEO of New Flyer, said the additional capital will allow New Flyer to achieve its full potential and overcome the financial constraints from the past year.
David Shapiro, managing principal of the US$210-million KPS private equity fund, said he expects New Flyer will emerge from the transaction in a strong financial position, maintaining its spot as the "premier producer of transit buses in North America."
New Flyer is recognized for industry innovation and high-quality production, as well as its good corporate citizenship, Mr. Shapiro said.
(Source: vinmen@yahoogroups.com)
RCBO......
New Flyer is recognized for industry innovation and high-quality production...
I can attest to that. For once, SEPTA bought a bus that doesn't have more bugs than a forest...
Well at least there'll be ONE good bus manufactuer around.
You can't say that, NABI bangs out a quality product and Neoplan's Transitliners have been redesigned from the ground up and I'm glad that properties in the NY Region are going else where than the usual suspects.
Don't get me wrong I love New Flyer, but NABI and Neoplan has thier place too! Now as for Gillig and Orion, they can sink in the river for all I care. As I say that, Gilligs are part of my garage at Rockland, however Rockland still uses the best Orion Coach to come off the line and that is the Orion 1.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
RCBO.....
New Flyers remind me of the RTS, durability wise anyway. To be such a prissy bus, they do well on the ghetto streets on the northside and provide a smooth ride anywhere else. The older ones make a howling sound that just can't be beat and they're in a dead heat with the Flxbie Metro/870 as the 2nd best looking transit bus ever created.
Trying to read between the lines, it sounds like this is an attempt to boost the financial structure of the company rather than a change in management. However, only time will tell.
>>> Trying to read between the lines, it sounds like this is an attempt to boost the financial structure of the company rather than a change in management. <<<
Those are the lines, not between them. The new money guys want to be able to veto anything they do not like if they sense their money is in danger of being lost.
Tom
Will this influx of new cash allay NYCT DOB's fear of New Flyer's shaky financial situation and get the 140 articulated bus order back on track for the near future?
It is amazing to me to see this just after Novabus seemed to enter uncertian times.
it has appeared thet the main transit agencies all over the US and Canada went on a mad binge to replace as many standard floors with loafers as well as a mad spree of CNG to replace Diesel.
As it has turned out the transit agencies bought buses at an accelerated rate and filled out thier next several years worth of orders.
As it has resulted in this sharp drop in new pickups.
Sad to see real buses replaced with "Flavors of the month" oh well "Phtograph 'em while you can" has always been my motto.
Blue in LA
Treat For The Day
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
RCBO....
Nice pictures, Trevor. Do you know if Rockland Coach has any plans to dispose of those 1100 series coaches? I forget what year they are from, but suspect they have a couple of more years left in them. I believe those may be the only non-NJ state buses at Rockland Coach.
Those MCI's are 1985 models.
Jay
Some of the 1150s are 1987s, 1160s are 1988s. The 1150s and 1160s had 8V92TA engines instead if the usual 8V71.
Those 1100s are still running strong, haven't heard anything around the garage about the replacements, however 1147 and 1148 has been permenantly sidelined and has had thier decals removed, I have a shot of both of them by the classroom.
We are getting D4501s when the order comes in.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
RCBO.....
what kinda buses does rockland have ?
eddie a
Hey Trevor, now that you work there, you really should talk to the management about taking over as webmaster for the Rockland Coaches website. That thing hasn't changed in ages... the "What's New" page is still the announcement of the NJT MCI order from April of 2000! I'd bet that pic of the #14 approaching the GWBBS with the bridge in the background would be a better front page image than the current web company could ever dream of.
Some nice pics Trevor, Good Luck in your new job.
Tone
I rode the "N" shuttle last night. It operates from the 86th Street station to Ocean Parkway. the bus was #9079-NOVABUS from Ulmer Park run #002. Why run the shuttle to Ocean Parkway? Wouldnt it make better sense to run the bus to Coney Island to connect with other trains?
It's academic. Due to low ridership, the N Shuttle bus will be going away as of March 31.
David
Perhaps that's because the N shuttle wasn't publicized much. I keep myself pretty well-informed on these topics, but this is the first I've heard of an N shuttle bus!
What is the fare arrangement? Can I transfer from the N to the Q (via the bus) with no swipes of the MetroCard?
The N shuttle bus runs late night through early morning seven days a week between 86th Street (N) and Ocean Parkway (Q), hitting Avenue X (F) along the way. Passengers may also use the B1 bus to reach both places, or the B4 to hit Avenue X.
I don't have the operating specifications handy, but I believe this route runs fare-free.
David
Generally, all subway shuttles operate "fare paid" meaning, you'll have paid entering/exiting the subway. Most subway shuttles will board passengers free of charge, and without proof of fare payment. No metrocard/block-ticket necessary.
Those who "get over" are locals who use the bus without using the subway (those who usually walk the short distance during their neighborhood travels).
But without special arrangements (e.g., transfer tickets), I wouldn't be able to take an N to 86, ride the shuttle bus to the Q, and take the Q to Stillwell on a single fare. Can I assume no such special arrangements are made?
Dave,,can you help me
I did get the 5 av project from the MTA people ,,,i am OEM ,,as you know
Steve
I'll have to look it up and then post it. It's not handy at the moment.
David
Thank you
Steve
914 668 9218
Sorry...I forgot to look it up. If I remember I'll do it tomorrow and post it.
David
From: 86th Street & W. 8th Street via:
86th Street, Avenue V, Stillwell Avenue, Avenue U, 86th Street, Avenue X, Ocean Parkway, Neptune Avenue, W. 5th Street, W. Brighton Avenue, Brighton Beach Avenue, to stand on Ocean Parkway Main Roadway at Brighton Beach Avenue (far side).
Return: Brighton Beach Avenue & Ocean Parkway via:
Ocean Parkway, Avenue X, 86th Street to stand in B-1 & B-4 bus stop on 86th Street at W. 8th Street.
David
Thank you David
I have seen this a lot and can someone help me on this. I ride the buses from UP a lot and they are missing stickers that are normally on the door. the stickers would say
DANGER
DO NOT STAND IN STEPWELL
WHILE BUS IS IN MOTION
or
WAIT FOR LIGHT
THEN OPEN DOOR
or
Air Assist Door:
Door Opens Automatically when:
1-Green Light is On
2-Tape is touched.
Why doesnt the stickers get replaced on the buses if they are not on the doors? This would make the bus look somewhat neater. Can anyone help me?
B1-#9308-NOVABUS
If the destination sign isn't working, or if the farebox isn't working, many times we, the operators, will look for any adhesive we can find to tape a sign to the windshield or over the farebox.
I think the bigger reason why alot of the stickers are missing is because the school kids keep peeling them off and putting them on their bookbags or elsewhere. Alot of times you will even find the missing stickers someplace else on the bus. For instance, sometimes I would find that "wait for green light" sticker, or "air assist door" sticker stuck on the rear wheel well by the back seats over the engine. And we know which type of people love to sit over there.
The reason why the stickers don't get replaced quickly is because the operators seldom mark it on the vehicle condition report card. I wouldn't mark it either since maintainence has more important work to do on the buses. However, when the bus does come in for general maintainence, usually these stickers are replaced, if the maintainence worker repairing the bus is on the ball and even notices.
BIG AL
Chatham Square is open tonight. If we get enough intrest, we may even do some trivia, a rather fun activity. Please point your browsers to www.subtalklive.com.
Trivia?
Is that more fun than waiting for your bus in the freezing rain at 7:30AM staring at a warm and comfy bus driver lazily sitting in his seat smoking a cigarette, sipping coffee and reading his paper with his head turned away from the front windshield standing 5 feet from your bus stop while you stare at him, pace, and jot down numbers?
I can't imagine...
Does anyone know where Picture Cars East is located and if they have any other buses?
thanks, Laddie
>>> Does anyone know where Picture Cars East is located <<<
72 Huntington St.
Brooklyn, NY 11231
(718) 852-2300
Tom
There was a two or three page article about this company in Part II of Newsday several weeks back. Perhaps a search of www.newsday.com can bring up the article.
Also they may have a website.
Good luck with the research
The web site is "pixxcars.com"
When there is thin aisle, and raised part where all the seats are. Are they going to take out the raised part, or is it going to stay? How will the Nova & Orion Suburbans look? How will the seats be arranged? That low thin aisle might cause problems for people walking to the back/front.
How will these buses be given even floors?
-
Will the drought at Fresh Pond ever end? 3 years and still going.
-Jay
i cannot wait until the suburbans get changed to hard seats. UP needs to get them changed ASAP.
"i cannot wait until the suburbans get changed to hard seats."
Don't wait, then, but not waiting won't make it happen any sooner. Changing seats is an expensive (parts/labor), time-consuming proposition, and there is little if any money in the budget to do it.
David
Found this article in Newsday about a fare increase for Suffolk County buses.
http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/ny-sgwar2547377jan13.story?coll=ny%2Dnews%2Dprint
Blame for the increase can be laid at the feet of Gov. Pataki and the state legislature for not increasing subsidies. The article states that in the past the state has promised more subsidies if SC didn't raise fares and never came through on the promise.
Also this will be the FIRST INCREASE IN TEN YEARS !!!!
I'm sure that the passengers' incomes have increased more than that in the period so what's the complaining ???
[Also this will be the FIRST INCREASE IN TEN YEARS !!!!
I'm sure that the passengers' incomes have increased more than that in the period so what's the complaining ???]
From my limited Suffolk County riding, it seemed that most riders were low-wage workers, day-laborers, and fixed-income elderly. I'm not so sure that their incomes have increased all that much.
give me a break to raise fares!! I mean, there is NO SERVICE ON SUNDAYS!! If they ran buses on Sundays, they could make up the renenue on routes that make money(S1 for example)-the route operate with headways of 30 minutes to 1 hour on some-this blows.
Last night saw a tampon commercial and the woman was on a NYC bus and the bus # in the front above the farebox read something like 15xx.
I didn't know the 15XXs are still being used and are in existence.
plenty of those buses are laying down at atlantic avenue in the old daily news lot.they may have a few that they use for making advertisements
See the thread from yesterday or the day before entitled, "Law and Order 1/11/02". The bus you speak of may be the same #1576!
I believe that bus is leased from Double A Bus Co. in Connecticut. AA owns that ex-NYCTA RTS bus and a whole slew of buses that'll make you go nuts !
Bill "Newkirk"
As was mentioned in another thread, Double-A in Rocky Hill, Conn., owned RTS #1576 at one time, but that bus is now at Picture Cars East in Brooklyn.
perhaps the law and order bus 1576 again
I have to admit, this is probably the first time that I've seen the words "buses" and "tampons" used in the same sentence. I'm scared to check in over at subtalk, to see what awaits there!
Hmm... how come when I saw "Buses" and "Tampons", I automatically thought RTS? :)
Back in the day, the Bx40 used to have 4 branches at the Throgs Neck end. Now, 2 of them are part of the Bx8 instead and one of them is the Bx42. When did this change occur?
What happened to the old Bx7 on Boston Road?
What happened to the old Bx24 that went to Riverdale?
When was service via Fieldston Road in Riverdale eliminated?
When were the Bx8 and Bx23 combined?
When was the old Bx19 eliminated, and when was the old Bx14 made into part of the Bx16?
When was the old Bx21 eliminated?
[1. Back in the day, the Bx40 used to have 4 branches at the Throgs Neck end. Now, 2 of them are part of the Bx8 instead and one of them is the Bx42. When did this change occur?]
Actually, the Bx40 had only THREE branches. Two of them looped through Edgewater Park (an odd co-op development consisting of about 600 single-family houses crammed into a quarter-mile-square parcel) but no trips actually ended there. The three branches were as follows (the letters are my own):
A. via Edgewater Park and Pennyfield Avenue to Fort Schuyler;
B. via Edgewater Park and E. 177th Street to Locust Point;
C. via Throgs Neck Houses and Harding Avenue to Davis Avenue.
The restructuring took effect in Septamber 1989. Branch A is the current Bx40, but without the loop through Edgewater Park. Branch B is now part of the Bx8. Branch C is the current Bx42.
- - - - -
[2. What happened to the old Bx7 on Boston Road?]
It was discontinued in the early 1980's, due to minimal ridership. It was replaced with open-door service on Westchester DOT routes 60, 61, and 62.
- - - - -
[3. What happened to the old Bx24 that went to Riverdale?]
[4. When was service via Fieldston Road in Riverdale eliminated?]
The Bx24 was discontinued during the 1990's, due to minimal ridership. The old Bx10 once had a part-time loop through Fieldston; it probably died in the early 1980's, when the old Bx10 became the Bx7 and the current Bx10 was created.
- - - - -
[5. When were the Bx8 and Bx23 combined?]
September 1989 (see above). Basically, the Bx8 absorbed both the Bx23 and the Locust Point branch of the Bx40.
- - - - -
[6. When was the old Bx19 eliminated, and when was the old Bx14 made into part of the Bx16?]
Both were part of the "great Bronx bus service overhaul" of February 1984.
- - - - -
[7. When was the old Bx21 eliminated?]
I'm pretty sure that was in the early 1980's. The old Bx21 (Triboro Bridge) was already gone by February 1984, when the old Bx26 (Boston Road-Morris Park) was renumbered Bx21.
>> The Bx24 was discontinued during the 1990's, due to minimal ridership. The old Bx10 once had a part-time loop through Fieldston; it probably died in the early 1980's, when the old Bx10 became the Bx7 and the current Bx10 was created. <<
No, the Bx10 never ran through Fieldston or along Fieldston Rd. The Bx24 used to loop from HH Pkwy to Fieldston Road (via 253rd) ,to Mosholu Ave, back to HH Pkwy.
My 1976 map shows two Bx10 branches, one to the city line, the other to Mosholu Avenue/Fieldston Road.
I can answer a few of your questions:
#2 and #3: BX7 and BX24 were both eliminated due to low ridership - not sure exactly when, but my guess would be about twenty years ago when there was a major restructuring and renumbering of Bronx MABSTOA routes.
#6: BX19 was eliminated around 1970 when it was combined with the BX12 (BX12 was extended to 207th St. and Broadway). The BX12 and BX19 remained separate for years because the BX19 had been a trolley route until 1948, but the BX12 was always a bus route.
Re #6: I was talking about a Bx19 that operated from 241/WPR to Eastchested/Boston Rds, but this other Bx19 is even more interesting? What were its terminii and what was the Bx19 to which I referred called if it existed?
The original route was "BX19 - 207th St Crosstown" and ran from 207/Broadway to Fordham Road and Southern Blvd, via 207th St., University Heights Bridge, and Fordham Road. It was an old 3rd Ave. Railway trolley route that was converted to bus in 1948. The BX12 was always a Surface Transportation/MABSTOA bus route ("Fordham Road - City Island") running from Sedgwick and Fordham straight across Fordham Road and Pelham Parkway. Around 1970 both routes were combined into one BX12 running from 207/Broadway to City Island - an obvious merge of two overlapping routes.
I believe the Bx19 that you are referring to was discontinued in the late 60's to 1972. I have family that lived on Schieffelin Avenue (one of the streets the Bx19 supposedly operated on) since 1973. In all of the years that they have lived on that block, plus all the times that I've spent nights up there, we have never witness a Bx19 or any other bus ever run down that street.
This line was originally the "15B", "B" for Baychester. The Bx17 became was the "15C". About 1970 it was changed to Bx17 (Allerton)
When were the M100 and Bx20 split? Did the Bx20 ever operate to 263rd?
When were the Bx12 and Bx29 split?
When did the Bx5 stop running along Pelham Parkway?
When was the Orchard Beach bus (I forgot the number) replaced by summer Bx5s?
If we're talking ancient history, YES!, the Bx20 DID go to 263rd Street.
I'm talking waaaaay back int he 1960's when I lived in Fordham. It started at West Farms Square, headed up Southern Blvd. to Fordham Road, then over to Kingsbridge Road. It used Kingsbridge to Broadway then up to the City Line.
Sounds like today's Bx9 route. In fact it sounds quite identical.
I'm talking about the current Bx20 split from the M100, not the Bx9 before 1984 (I don't consider 1984 to be ancient history anyway).
Are you talking about 263rd Street-Riverdale Ave. Remember: Today's Bx20 is not the same one most of us know of. The old Bx20 became the Bx9 in the early 80's and operates along the same route today between West Farms Square and 262 Street-Broadway.
I'm thinking it was the early 90's when Bx12 stopped serving City Island and the Bx29 was created.
Again - I don't remember the year, but I'm guessing that the Bx5 stopped operating along Pelham Parkway (to Williamsbridge Road) during the 80's. It's possible this and the elimination of the Bx52 ocurred at the same time.
Wayne
The current Bx20 was created maybe 10 years ago. It has never run to 263rd. (I live along its route).
So did the M100 run to the city line up to its cutback to 207, or was it cut back to 254 at an earlier time?
The M100 operated to 263rd-Riverdale and on weekdays some terminated at 246th Street-H. Hudson Pkwy until it was shortened to 207th Street as the north terminal.
Wayne
just a little poll. what depot in brooklyn would you guys and gals rate as the depot with the best lines to operate? my vote goes to gleason. i have worked ulmer , gleason and flatbush.
my picks:
1-Ulmer Park
2-Jackie Gleason
3-Fresh Pond
4-Flatbush
5-East New York(they took Ulmer Park routes B82 and B8 and they ALWAYS GET NEWER BUSES FIRST)
When did the B8 switch from Ulmer Park to ENY?
it is atleast 2 system picks and maybe three that the b8 is at eny
I worked at only one Brooklyn garage- Gleason. I can't compare between them, but Gleason seemed to have good routes and decent equipment.
With the announcement by NovaBUS that it is seeking a buyer for the Roswell, NM plant, and the threat that RTS production will shut down if a buyer is not found, I have to ask: which transit operators have recently purchased new RTS buses? Are any new RTS buses coming off the line? I cannot recall any major urban transit properties who have purchased the RTS in the last year or so.
It's interesting to consider that GMC/GMDD produced the 'New Look' bus for 27 years (1959 through 1986), and that the RTS has now been in production for 25 years (1977 through 2001).
Jim D.
DART ordered 488 new RTS buses in 98 and they are still coming in. You can go to the transit talk community site later on this evening and look under the CATS Man photo album to see what they look like.
City of Detroit Department of Transportation has taken delivery of 303 standard RTS T80 206 units between 1995 and 2001, of which 100 were acquired during the last year.
The RTS is indefinately no more. Word is that MCI brought that plant and is planning to gear it up for MCI productions.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
RCBO...
So, will it be retooled for the ex Flx Metro? Or the ghastly-looking Nova LFS? Or a new model?
According to a press release on the NovaBUS website (www.novabus.com), Nova will retain production of the LFS bus in Quebec and in Schnectady, NY.
It appears that for MCI to truly get back into the transit bus market, they will need to buy or develop a low-floor model, as the market for Classic or RTS buses is fairly limited. MCI may want to buy the Roswell plant simply for production of intercity coaches.
Jim D.
Hmm, a low floor Metro...
Or an artic Metro?
How about a Classic Low-Floor? I'd think that would be easier than creating a whole new design. There is money to be made for MCI if they created a Low-Floor. Why not a Classic Low-Floor? It would look better than that LFS coach Nova currently makes. Some site the rivets as being a factor as they drive up costs, however, couldn't they use fake rivets just for the effect?
According to a press release on the NovaBUS website (www.novabus.com), Nova will retain production of the LFS bus in Quebec and in Schnectady, NY. No word on the fate of the Classic (NovaBUS probably considers it a discontinued product).
It appears that for MCI to truly get back into the transit bus market, they will need to buy or develop a low-floor model, as the market for RTS, Metro or Classic high-floor buses is fairly limited. MCI may want to buy the Roswell plant simply for production of intercity coaches.
Jim D.
:-(
I heard that the Orions Vcng at JG will Command when the Orions VIIcng start coming in. Had anyone else heard this.
Robert
Nope, that is not happening as far as I know. Why would the TA send 34 buses to Command when there is a SERIOUS bus shortage and even at that JG is only getting like 50 of the Orion VIIs and thats the clear out the remaining diesel RTSs. The TA can not afford to just release 34 buses like that.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
RCBO.....
as someone that has friends at command, i heard that the talk there is that they indeed are going to get 34 more cng buses from gleason.they already have 8398, 8399, and 8567 running on the local lines like the b100. i was told they were to get the rest of the original cng`s from gleason.
Unless the allottment of new Orion VII CNGs to JG has been increased way beyond the original amount (50 buses), I don't see that as becoming reality, either. The NYCT bus shortage crisis is, unfortunately, the current reality.
See what getting rid of ALL of the 1983 and 1984 RTS Buses does-it places us in a severe shortage. There are no 1983s on the road anymore. Yeah they were junky buses but at least you had service. The MTA should've kept a few around. There are only about a dozen 1984s left.
Could it be possible that they could bring some buses out of storage and back into service if needed?
Another thing: I hope that there won't be a shortage of subway cars once the redbirds are scrapped.
#3233 Q46 (OLD SCHOOL!)
#3503 Q31
#7920 Broadway Express
The TA did transfer some RTS CNGs to nycDOT (Command), because they were odd balls in TA fleet & DOT already had some at Command & Triboro, but this doesn't seem to make any since.
Mr rt__:^)
They were odd balls becouse there tanks were not upgraded to take on me gas.
Robert
The TA's Orion V CNG's are going nowhere.
Mark
I agree. JG already has a shortage of buses. They need those 31 CNG Orions. Let Command keep those damn GMC's
My question is how the hell could NYCT get themselves in a predicament, where there is a shortage of buses? That's sad. I'll agree with the other person who posted that they should take those stored RTS's and use them. Just don't dump them in FP or QV!
-
Will the drought at Fresh Pond ever end? 3 years and still going.
Command doesnt need 31 local buses anyway. At most they could use 10 of those Orions to replace the remaining 1985 GMC RTS. Either way its not gonna happen and the GMC RTS will keep on rolling.
Peace,
Kevin
LLE Bus Operator
TransiTALK
Who supplies the buses for Command and Triboro, etc? Does the NYCT Purchase and assign them out, or do the companys buy the buses themselves?
NYCDOT purchases buses and assigns them to Command, Triboro, etc. In the case of the MCI over-the-road buses running for NY Bus Service, DOT tacked them onto NYC Transit's order (with MTA Board approval, of course).
David
Thank you for the awnser, one more question, what is the diffrence btween NYDOT and NYCT? is NYDOT a state agency or a city agency?
NYCDOT is what I said. The "C" is for "City." NYC Transit is part of the New York (State) Metropolitan Transportation Authority, a state agency. NYC Department of Transportation is a city agency. Though they work together when necessary, they are two completely different entities with two completely different reporting structures.
David
I wonder if they will repower the Orion V's to Series 50G when they go to Command?
Let's see if the buses go to Command first, and then worry about what's going to power them.
David
As a true transit bus buff, is there anyone out there who works for New York City Transit at the Jackie Gleason Bus Depot and happens to know about the progress on their 1948 General Motors 5101 model bus #2969 (Ralph Kramdem Bus) and the 1963 GMC TDH-5303 model Fishbowl former New York City Transit Authority bus #3758? Is it possible that both of these Classic Transit buses can finally make it out to this years 2002 NYC Transit Bus Roadeo? About 9 months ago I was aprised by New York City Transit's Bus Customer Relations that the Gleason Depot was just overhauling the generator on their senior
1948 GM 5101 model bus #2969. If N.Y.C. Transit can't fix the 1963 GM 5303 bus #3758, then would it be possible for Bus Maintenance to
convert their similar Vintage 1962 GMC TDH-5302 model bus #2151 into a
'63 Fishbowl by adding bullet lights to the top of 2151(instead of the
original flat top lights)? The reason I metion that NYC Transit should add bullet lights to the top of 1962 GM bus #2151 is that it is really just like 3758.
But then that's defeating the purpose of saving 2151 as a Historic Bus.
2969 is out for a remake over so that when it returns it'll be what is was originally. As you know 2969 is NOT the original number of that coach. 3758 has a set of problems of its own, JG is working to get it done, but the priority is to the coaches that need to be on the road everyday!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
[As you know 2969 is NOT the original number of that coach.]
If memory serves me, the original number was 4789. In any event, it was part of the 4500-4899 series.
Sid, you can rest easy. Your memory is correct. I check with OMOT.org. 4789 it is/was.
I think it was a great way to honor "the Great One". I can certainly understand wanting to undo a bit of "revisionist history". But lets have a bit of whimsy in our lives.
bus 2969 was having a problem with the generator as of august of last year. apparently the company that the mta was dealing with to get a new generator was not producing the right one. that bus uses a positive ground generator. the compant shipped negative ground. i picked out of gleason in sept and know that the bus was not running when i left.
If N.Y.C. Transit can't fix the 1963 GM 5303 bus #3758, then would it be possible for Bus Maintenance to convert their similar Vintage 1962 GMC TDH-5302 model bus #2151 into a '63 Fishbowl by adding bullet lights to the top of 2151(instead of the original flat top lights)? The reason I metion that NYC Transit should add bullet lights to the top of 1962 GM bus #2151 is that it is really just like 3758.
I can't take it anymore! If a 5302 was really just like a 5303 then why would GM change the model number! There are many differences between 1st and 2nd generation Fishbowls. Marker lights are just the beginning. Changing a Fishbowl alternator or even getting a replacement is not a big deal! Maybe 2 or 3 hours work. I am willing to bet that manpower and other priorities are stopping the repairs or more serious problems exist.
The Ralph Kramdem bus was in Manhattan this past Fall as part of a "museum" event at the Public Libary (the park there).
Mr rt__:^)
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
RCBO....
Aaaaaaaah! They killed it! Scenes like that will be rare in 15-20 years.
I kept guessing as to where what bus fleet was in the NJ Transit system. At this point I figure that the '95-'96 RTSs run in the Northern division, while the '99-'00 RTSs are in Central division. Is it safe for me to assume that the "baby" RTSs (by that, I mean the T60-206) are in the more rural Southern divison?
Let me not even try to guess where a particular MCI fleet is, b/c NJT has so many of them and they're all over the place.
The 1996 RTS fleet replaced the 1983 Flx Metro A (1300-1464), and is pretty much limited to Meadowlands, Hilton, Orange, and Trenton/Hamilton garages.
The 1999-2000 RTS fleet replaced the NYCT Flx 870 rehabs, and can be found all over the state, from Market Street (Paterson) to Egg Harbor.
The baby RTSes are generally found in Egg Harbor, hamilton, and Washington Township in south Jersey, but they run in NJT colors in Monmouth, Morris, and Bergen counties by TCT, PABCO/Morris Metro and Community Transportation, respectively.
As a Transit Bus buff, I would please like to find out if there are any Bus Enthuisiasts out there who have photos and slides of 1963 General Motors TDH-5303 model buses painted in green with the script New York City Transit Authority logo on top? I understand that many of the bus pictures on the Bus Talk Website are no longer available from the owners (ex: Joe Testagrose). I even tried writing to
Gary Grahl at the NY Metropolitan Bus Club inquiring about 1963 GM bus photos, but I never received a reply from him. I am very surprised that NYC Transit does'nt keep an extensive photo collection of their buses that were once in service.
Try your newsgroups
alt.binaries.pictures.vehicles
Joe Testagrose posts his pictures there so you can get one or two of your liking.
Prior to the late 80's bus numbering done by NJT, does anyone remember the original number(or letters) of the following NJT southern division routes:
507 - AC to OC
553 - AC to Bridgeton
606 - Trenton to Princeton
403 - Phila to Erial
400 - Phila to Sicklersville
505 - AC to Longport
409 - Phila to Trenton
In order:
507 - A7
553 - 103
606 - Mercer Metro P
403 - L
400 - F
505 - A5
409 - 9A
Of the 5 Subway Surface Lines, (10, 11, 13, 34, 36), which of these were NOT original Subway-Surface routes? (That is, did not use the subway from the line's opening)
None of them were, if I'm correct. They ran on market street until the subway surface tunnel was built.
I believe it was the 13 car, which originally used Chestnut Street into Center City, until that thorofare was abandoned, when the 13 was routed into the portal.
Neat to note is the other subway surface route that didn't get retained, the #38 line. And the #37 may have also used the routing as well.
The 37 did, all the way from Chester!
I should have put this on the SUB TALK page.
And,.... Some of us here don't discriminate. :)
Anyone know what kind of engine Los Angeles RTS 2315 would have had? Was this series diesel? The LA 2315 was sighted in Toledo, OH. I don't know why it is there.
Thanks
MTA (formerly RTD) 2300-series RTS buses were delivered in 1988-1989. They were definately diesels; I would venture to guess that they have/had DDC 6V92TA engines. Why they are being retired is beyond me.
I just happen to own ex SCRTD/MTA 2363. Its powered by a 6V92 DDEC TA. I bought the bus about 3 months ago as a non runner and partially canibalized and its now in better shape then when it was at ATE. It had no problems at all being one of the lead buses for the LA car show. Except for 2 accidents.......... Its just an awesom bus now.
There oughta be a special place for bus preservers as yourself. Keep up the good work, S.
buses that are 12+ years old are being retired and replaced by clean air buses .. aka CNG.
blame it on our local bus riders union.
eddie a
Interesting that 2315 was spotted. This bus was one that RTD/MTA sold to Detroit Diesel for LNG fuel testing. The bus has never returned to LA. If anyone has or knows where to get prints of the bus, I would greatly appriciate it. Email me.
Thanks
Mr. Red
Yes 26 has been known to have carried at least 2 diffrent LNG test engine since it was sold back to TMC by RTD very early in its life.
This bus holds a defiate mystery to us here in LA.
Anyways built as a DD 9v92 then under the forces of TMC wore a Cummins L10 and later Detroit Diesel Series 50 LNG.
Little is known of what happened to it.
Maybe now that Roswell is shutting down they are selling off testbeds and other prototype RTS that may have been lying around for a long time.
Yes LACMTA is selling off all of the non CNG buses at an alarming rate while NYCTA repowers the 1990 TMC's with S50's.
I would also be interested in further info on the bus and pictures.
Blue
Yes 2315 has been known to have carried at least 2 diffrent LNG test engine since it was sold back to TMC by RTD very early in its life.
This bus holds a defiate mystery to us here in LA.
Anyways built as a DD 9v92 then under the forces of TMC wore a Cummins L10 and later Detroit Diesel Series 50 LNG.
Little is known of what happened to it.
Maybe now that Roswell is shutting down they are selling off testbeds and other prototype RTS that may have been lying around for a long time.
Yes LACMTA is selling off all of the non CNG buses at an alarming rate while NYCTA repowers the 1990 TMC's with S50's.
I would also be interested in further info on the bus and pictures.
Blue
How many NJT buses are assigned to Salem County, and what type are they?
If you're talking about the 423 and 468 lines operated by Salem County under contract to NJT, then the answer is 6 1500-series RTS buses. The 401 and 402 - which also serve Salem County - are operated by NJT Washington Twp Garage, using MCI D4000 cruisers.
Greetings fellow Bus Talkers, I am in search of an original "OA" shoulder patch to add to my collection. Can anyone point me in the right direction for my quest? Thanks......
Try at the Transit Museum Store (at Grand Central station I believe).
I don't know about anyone else, but since I've been here, the thread started by John ("Someone finally has the guts") seems to be the highest numbered thread at BusTalk, with 142 messages to date.
Anyone have any idea if the thread is the largest in BusTalk history? Not that it means anything.. but it's interesting to see what topics generate the most activity.
Apparently, topics that include passenger opinion of operator performance (and vice-versa) receives the most interest.
I for one was VERY PLEASED to see the drivers from far and wide add their two cents. I feel it provides two benifits:
- Yea, yea, been there, done that (or had it done to me), i.e. I thought I was the only guy in the World with that problem.
- Oh now I undersatnd why he doesn't want to open the door.
It's like the girl who was an office sect. for an airline, a job she took because she always wanted to be an airline stewardees. When she got that job in the air, she realized that the sect. had all the benifits & none of the yucky stuff.
So, I say thanks Dave for providing a place for employees of the system to talk to each other & hope that the customers come to understand that most of us try to do the best job we can, because we realy care about the kind of service provided to the public.
Mr rt__:^) ... just the guy counting those nickles & dimes.
In a previous posting Trevor Logan had mentioned that the former New York City Transit Authority green body 1963 General Motors TDH-5303 model Museum bus #3758 has had a number of different mechanical problems besides a defective alternator. Could anybody possibly tell me what other major work needs to also be done on this reknown Classic
non-airconditioned Fishbowl Transit Bus? If not this year, would 1963 GMC 5303 bus #3758 be all overhauled for next years 2003 NYC Transit Bus Roadeo when that vehicle turns 40 years old?
You read that e-mail wrong, 2969 has a different number, 3758 is original!!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
RCBO...
If I have to refresh anyones memory; it was said to me that the 1963 GMC 5303 Museum bus #3758 is slowly being repaired at the Jackie Gleason Depot. The true fact is that both the 1948 GMC 5101 bus #2969 and '63 GM 5303 bus #3758 have defective alternators.
However, I was aprised that the 1963 GMC Fishbowl also has some other mechanical problems. And that I was advised by Trevor that the JG bus #2969 is being completely restored. Nonetheless, my chief question was what other mechanical problems does the '63 GM bus #3758 have?
If original 2969 should have a generator.
Coming soon to a run on the Bx28 near you ........ Orion VII 7560 !!!
The dreaded Orion VII was at G/H depot this afternoon being prepared for service next week on the Bx28. Several Operators were being trained, while technitions were STILL making adjustments on the bus.
as soon as I find out which run(s) will be assigned to the Bus, I'll post it.
Ya!!!!!!! #7560 is back home. Just don't crack up too much #7560! :)
Garbage, and now they got some rule say they don't want the bus under any elevated structures.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but the Bx28 goes under and (2) at Gun Hill Road and the (4) at least twice in the Bedford Park area. So doesn't this disqualifies the P O S from even being tested on the Bx28?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
They should do the testing on the Bx29 or send it to JG or CS for testing instead
Sending it to CS would pretty much not make sense either since to pull in or out of CS you must go under an elevated structure!!
Try again
How many routes have just been eliminated from where it can run then? I can think of many routes that go under elevateds.
...and now they got some rule say they don't want the bus under any elevated structures.
WTF?
Well Lads, the crate is IN service, saw it twice today running on the Bx28, I think the run was 10, but I'll have to check to make sure.
And I'll also clarify the running under the elevated subway, as I understand it, they don't want it under any elevated if possible. why?
maybe they don't want a third-rail spark to come down on top of the Gas tank...
I know very little of Bronx bus routes. But just taking into account all the subway routes operated on top of structures in the City of New York, I would dare say that the overwelming majority of bus routes either cross under or actually ride underneath an elevated line. For example, in Brooklyn/ Queens, I assume that this bus would be disqualified from routes like the B1 (86th St. under the M/W lines); Q32 (under the #7 line); Q56 (Jamaica Ave. under the J/Z line), yet could they run on lines like the the B43 and B57 which merely cross underneath an elevated structure?
I dunno if i should apply for NYCT Bus operators test. Does anyone know the requirements for Bus operator for NYCT. Also MaBSTOA is coming out after Trackworker. Anyone know the requirements to that one?
This was originally posted at another well-known and populated transit fan forum, but I feel in light of the current industry trends and New York's present and future bus situation, it should also appear in this forum in order to generate some additional and hopefully meaningful discussion. The poster agrees, and has graciously granted me his permision to do just that.
And so here it is. Enjoy.
The Ohio Museum of Transportation
Transit Talk
Posted By: Ronnie Cathcart Date: Wednesday, December 26 2001, at 10:56 a.m.
With these low floors there has been a declining of seats. Neoplan's AN440 low floor seats 37, New Flyer's D40-LF seats 39 and there's the other manufactures that seats 40. Transit authorities who are low floor crazed are going to miss the standard floor bus. Yea, they can purchase a few, but they want to save money and it's good for ADA and senior citizens. The only major transit authority that is going low floor is NJ Transit.
The manufacturers have already heard the crying for more seats in a low floor bus from transit authorities. The ones that heard them and obliged by making a bus that has more than forty seats are NABI and New Flyer. New Flyer's Invero seats 44 passengers, but the downside is that the seats in the back are too tight. Your knees touch the back seat and there's little movement with your legs. When their demo came to TARTA last year we told the salesman about the problem. His answer is to either make it longer or as an option, you can have it seat 40. The Invero has been quiet for two years and orders were either cancelled or delayed. Long Beach Transit were the first to bid on them, but their order was delayed. Now we should expect to see them on their property in Feb. of 2002. About 27 buses. I don't know if the delays came because of opinions especially regarding the seats, but the Invero is and ready to take some aim. I wouldn't mind TARTA having a couple of those buses. It would sure attract a lot of people. Maybe a chance to ride TARTA for the first time.
NABI on the other hand has already built their low floor that seats more than forty. I beleive it's called 45-LF COMPO BUS. A composite shell two axel 45' bus that seats more than forty. I thought the design would look like the 40-LF, but like New Flyer's INVERO, it has a sleek look with curves and roof mounted A/C connected on the top of the bus. The windshield of that bus reminds me of a New Look "Fishbowl". No orders yet of this bus, but its the next thing for low floors to grow longer than 40 feet to have around 42 to 47 seats.
With these school runs TARTA have to deal with that some buses had a full load of 80 plus people on board, they have to make a choice to send in extra buses, add another bus to that run, go back to standard floors (which they won't ever), or purchase an articulated bus. I had that conversation with Mr. Danford when I was showing him copies of MTA NYCT buses that I print off the web. He likes the New Flyer "Galaxy" articulated. I'm starting to like their bus too. Only in MTA specs and its colors. NABI's articulated design I like the best.
Have a nice day
-Ronnie
Transit Talk is a public forum of the Ohio Museum of Transportation.
Great points!
Personally, I feel the ideal length for a truly successful low-floor urban transit bus design would and should be 45 feet.
I hope that original post meant NJ Transit is NOT going low floor.
Where have all of you been? Neoplan has been making a 45-foot fully low floor for years - Transliner AN445TLF.
Neoplan TLF
[Neoplan has been making a 45-foot fully low floor for years - Transliner AN445TLF]
Are you sure they have been "making" it and not just offering it for sale? Do you know of any transit property that has ordered and is operating any of these?
United Airlines ordered a fleet a few years back for airport shuttle duty.
New Jersey Transit has ZERO use for low floors. That is one of the reasons why they gave up the Orion 06.501 Hybrid Electrics to the MTA (#6350-6353). Among other issues!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coach B/O
TransiTALK
Phoenix Valley Metro (www.valleymetro.org) Is Slowly replacing all RTS GM/TMC 4 & 6, New Flyer LF40d and MANN Artics) with NAMBI 40 & 45 Foot Natral Gas Low Floor Buses. (Just Recived 36 New NAMBI 40 Footers)
NABI!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Rockland Coaches B/O
I assume Phoenix Valley Metro has still not received any of the NABI 45-foot low floor buses. These were ordered at least a year or two ago, and there have been delays in getting the first bus of that order delivered. I don't know what the problem is.
The NABI Buses (40 & 45 Foot) Buses Have Been Delayed For Delivery, The 40 Footers were sch to arrive in may - Jul 2001 for operation in August 2001 but are ow being placed into service on monday. I'm going to miss the 23 GM/TMC RTS 4/6 Going to Retirement. :(''''
I have a pic in my documents of 9053 at Crosstown - I took it from one site and I don't know how old it is.
It has 9053, behind it a repair truck, and another Flxible.
Interesting thing. When you look at the roof of the bus, there is the Hump like there were on the GM Blitz remans.
Were the Flxibles remans?
I will e-mail pic if anyone wants - just respond to the post.
Hey, e-mail me a pic. I like the Flxibles.
Ray
the hump on the top was one of 5 ac units the ta was testing back in 1983. there were 5 9000`s at glason being tested. after the test they chose the unit you saw on the blitz buses.
can you send me a pic too thanks
I'd love to see a pic as well, please email to perrinp@cs.com
Thanks!!! Long live the Flxibles!!!
Hey email me a pic I want to see this!
Tone
Enigman6903, I would love to see that picture & also i used to ride flxible alot on M101/102 back in the early 80's.
Peace
David J.
MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
send it to pingu45@aol.com i want it to
Please send a copy to Busdude@Blarg.net
E-mail it to me also. I'd love to know when the picture was taken. Maybe you can send that pic to somebody, like Trevor for instance, so it can be posted on this board.
BIG AL
I too would like to see the pic. There was an old 9000 series Flx at MSBA (I forget which number) when the new Cubix fareboxes arrived. It was used as a training bus. Looked like a million dollars going down the road. Long live the Flx NewLook!
Please send me one.
Flx7595
I will be visiting Toronto in the near future. Can anyone suggest good locations (particularly station busways) where I can photograph, see and/or ride GMC New Look buses on the weekends? I'm preferably looking for locations where the Fishbowls run on multiple routes.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
Jim D.
Hello Jim:
The answer is: ANYWHERE! TTC currently operates somewhere between 500 and 600 GM New Looks, rebuilt and unrebuilt, and by no means are they confined to weekday, rush hour service. These buses are still very much on the front line of operation and will be for many more years.
Keep in mind that TTC is arranged somewhat differently from other North American transit systems. In Central Toronto, you might be surprised by how few buses you will find. The diesel buses act as feeders to the backbone lines, which are the subways and to some extent, the streetcars. If you really want to see all varieties of TTC buses in action, I recommend riding to one of the outer stations on either subway line. Finch Station, at the extreme end of the YONGE-University-Spadina line is always a great place to see lots of buses at anytime. York Mills is another good one, as is Eglinton. On the Bloor-Danforth line, you might want to check out Victoria Park and Kennedy. Also, the Scarborough Town Centre station on the RT line is another big multi-modal transfer point where you are bound to find TTC New Looks.
For easy riding and a good chance at a New Look, try one of the major east-west feeder lines, perhaps the 32 Eglinton West or the 85 Sheppard East. Come to think of it, I am not certain that the divisions operating those routes have New Looks, but you will not have any trouble finding them.
Have fun! TTC is a great system is all aspects, and their commitment to keeping the reliable and practical New Looks in service is always appreciated by the transit fan! Be sure to tell us of your travels when you return. If you need more specific info on TTC routes, please email me...
Neil
Neil's advice is right on point. In my opinion, Toronto is the best city in North America from a transit fan's perspective. Have a great time!
Those GMC "New Looks" are ther best! Toronto really takes care of their buses. They are about 18-20 years old and they show no signs of slowing down (that's my opinion).
Ray
While reading the posts about B/O and the problem/issues they deal with... I thought of another that I witnessed. I make the trip home (New York City) regularly and I'll drive or catch a cheap fligh most of the time, but sometimes I'll take the bus. Well, back in August of last year I rode Peter Pan Bus Lines to NYC and it was a good and quick ride. However some ladies started to voice their opinions/complain amongst themselves (and loud so the B/O would hear). What happened was that the B/O stopped for a second (or two) to let someone off (I guessing the person was a friend of the B/O) on route 206 in New Jersey. We heard a few sighs etc., then the next thing really pissed me off. The B/O was actually doing everyone a favor and using a alternate (and quicker) route to avoid crawling traffic. I'm sure most (if not all of us) know well how slow the traffic can be approaching the Lincoln Tunnel. Well... this day traffic was moving at about 10 MPH and the B/O decided to "bail out" and took side streets to the Lincoln Tunnel. Now along the way we had traffic lights, stop signs etc. to deal with, but we were moving along. Well one lady (the loudest one of course) starts bitching about how "he's not supposed to leave the route" and other sh*t. Then she says something about if he can "break the rules then why can't she break them and have a cigarette". If I enjoy the ride I'll often tell the B/O that as I getting off and this time I was sure to thank him for a nice ride - and I felt bad that he had these ungrateful women who obviously had no idea that (1) the B/O was actually saving us time and (2) he doesn't have to stick the the an exact route. Now on my last statement B/O's please correct me if I'm wrong... But I always thought that a B/O ( on intercity, commuter and express runs) can use their discretion and take a different route. I realize local routes can't do this because there stops along route, but intercity and commuter runs will have this flexibility because of the portions where there are no stops.
Wayne
[But I always thought that a B/O ( on intercity, commuter and express runs) can use their discretion and take a different route.]
I don't know what the rule is from company to company, but the frequently bad traffic on the approach to the Lincoln Tunnel from the vicinity of the NJ Turnpike probably causes the most detours off-route. I have been on a number of Short Line and NJ Transit buses that have taken different routings through the side streets of Union City, Weehawken and/or Hoboken to get to the Tunnel faster than I-495 would get them there. And I have seen buses from other lines do the same, e.g., DeCamp, Rockland Coach.
Quite true. Often times DeCamp (and others) buses approaching the Lincoln Tunnel will bail out at the Last Exit and go down Blvd East to the U-Turn toward the toll plaza (though it puzzles me when they do this when the helix is not congested ...)
I think that for the express portion of a route, or otherwise a portion where passengers are not picked up or dropped off, a driver can deviate from the established routing either at his/her descretion, or upon advisory.
Like once I heard a radio message to NJ Transit drivers that any Turnpike North express trips from New York could use the Western Spur due to heavy traffic on the Eastern Spur.
In general (in NYC and elsewhere), are B/O's permitted to deviate off the route if they don't miss any stops? What if they miss a stop, but (a) there's another bus on the same route directly in front making the stop and (b) no passengers on board want to get off there? I've experienced the latter on the M104 at 73rd, where, until recently, NB buses could bypass the stop on Broadway (now permanently eliminated to make way for the new subway entrance) by using Amsterdam for one block instead (as all M104's do now).
On tonight`s episode of SMALLVILLE, during the first 5 minutes, our hero, a teenaged Clark Kent, stopped a GM fishbowl from crashing into a shelter containing a homeless man and his pet dog. The fishbowl went out of control because the driver had a seizure. Too bad our hero completely trashed the front end of the bus, not mentioning nearly blowing up the poor bus. I guess that was added for dramatic effect.
They always gotta wreck a fishbowl! They also trashed a fishbowl for the movie "Jurassic Park - the Lost World." They should use instead an RTS or an Orion. No loss there...
It looks like Southern's Flyers are spreading over the SEPTA system. They are being seen on the C, 64, and 47.
Now, when are the 55xx and 56xx coming?
[It looks like Southern's Flyers are spreading over the SEPTA system. They are being seen on the C, 64, and 47.
Now, when are the 55xx and 56xx coming?]
5501-5600 are due to start arriving this coming spring, which should mean the retirement of any and all remaining 8xxx series Neoplans. 5601-5700 are due sometime in 2003. When the 56xx's are delivered, the Neoplan DK's (3000~3130) will begin to be pulled from service. I just hope these 200 buses will arrive at a slightly quicker pace than the 54xx series, though that would mean that the Neoplans would be retired more quickly. I will be sad to see these workhorses go. (I don't care if they're complete boxes on wheels! :-) )
This afternoon I rode with a B/O who was so good, I almost decided to ride past my stop just for the pleasure of riding with him. I had been waiting only about five minutes when the bus, a NABI 40LF (LAMTA Line 460) came along right on schedule. The bus stop is on the far side of an intersection so there were no parked cars to worry about so the B/O had a straight shot coming in to the bus stop. As he came in I got ready to jump back or try to shinny up the Bus Stop pole because there was a large pothole filed with water right at the curb, and on previous occasions I had seen how far the spray pattern went.
With the front bumper already over the pothole, the B/O moved the steering wheel just enough to guide the right front wheel out past the pothole. I was thinking I was glad he saw that pothole at the last minute, but now the bus is more than 18" away from the curb so I will have to step down into the street and pull myself up the 14" height to floor of the bus. Wrong!! He brought the front end of the bus right back into the curb so the right front wheel went around the perimeter of the pothole like it was on a track, and the bus stopped directly in front of me parallel to and within 4" from the curb.
I got on, showed my pass, and grabbed the gimp seat right behind the front wheel well on the right side of the bus, so I could clearly see what the B/O was doing. I was really impressed with how quickly he loaded passengers at stops. This line has zoned fares, transfers, and discounted fares. At one stop two people got on with different destinations and one with a discount. He immediately told each of them in a clear (no mumbles), friendly but authoritative voice the correct amount for each to deposit in the fare box and handed out the transfers and zone checks to each of them within a few seconds.
He seemed to handle that NABI like a sports car. He pulled into and out of bus stops quickly, but smoothly. I noticed that I was never thrown forward or backward. On the street we kept up with the 40 mph traffic, and I noticed that although this driver seemed to be the most relaxed B/O I had ever seen in a driver's seat (no drumming fingers or expressions of annoyance with other drivers), he was alert and constantly checking his mirrors. When stopped at a light, he would even scan the interior mirror to check on the passengers. He glanced at his watch occasionally, presumably checking the schedule, but appeared to be dead on it for the relatively short (less than 10 miles) ride I took. Maybe we were just lucky that no other drivers cut in front of him (there was moderate traffic) causing him to have to brake hard, or perhaps he made his own luck through good defensive driving.
I may try to catch his bus tomorrow for the express purpose of writing down his operator's number so I can send in a commendation letter to the MTA.
Tom
[I may try to catch his bus tomorrow for the express purpose of writing down his operator's number so I can send in a commendation letter to the MTA.]
It's nice to be nice. I also am just as quick to give someone prase as I am to criticize. When I do that to the same individual/group, at different times, you would be suprised the respect you get.
Mr rt__:^)
Decided to travel today. Took MNRR to GCT. Took #5 Train to Bowling Green to go to NYS DMV office on Greenwich Street. Had a set of redbirds. Interesting in that the Shuttle platform was in view - only blocked by a wooden half height wall.
Took #5 - more redbirds - back to Brooklyn Bridge - and walked to Chambers street. Took TMC 8502 on the M22 to Battery Park City where I waited to get the X25 - Nova 9335 - run 1 - doing the X29 also. Was the only one on the bus. Disembarked at GCT.
Took X22 - MCI 1881 - to Tottenville via NJ. Eventhough it is governed this bus ran pretty well keeping up with other vehicles.
As exiting Lincoln Tunnel, saw the Artic Trevor shot the other night which is half orange half purple - looks like shit to me.
In Tottenville, Took S59 to X1 at Richmond Avenue - Flew through the Battery Tunnel since no one else was in the tunnel.
We took Water Street - but on Saturday the X1 took Church past WTC. Why at like 7:30PM can't the X1 run up Church since no other buses except X10 & X17 running to Manhattan at that time?
On Water, saw NYU shuttle - a RTS - with 2 side destination signs on both the right and left sides of the bus. This is the first I have ever seen like this.
Took X1 to 42nd and then went to GCT back to MNRR.
No disrespect intended, but I never heard of anybody taking so many Premium Fare express buses in one day! I assume you did it for the variety, not because you are "afraid" to ride subways or local bus routes. I see that you rode the #5 train, the M-22 and the S-59, unless you did so only out of necessity. Just thought it was odd, that's all!
It's possible he has a 30-day express bus unlimited pass. Otherwise I couldn't imagine spending all that money just to ride a few buses.
Why have the older buses (pre-1994 TMCs) had the triangle in the back painted white?
I personally think they looked better black than white, especially the ones that have been repowered. I looks better when there is a square shape the same color when there is a pipe out its ass, like since the post 1994s do not have the triangle window (covered up by the white cover shell.)
There are only 1-2 buses I know left like that - one is a 41XX from Hudson, I think 4158.
The "triangle," or "pork chop window" as it is known around NYC Transit (unofficially if not officially), is now painted white because doing so means less masking during repainting and one less color to use, which saves time and money.
David
Speaking of which, are we late with painting buses 4900-5249? I mean it's after three years already. Already bus 4935 has some white but that's about it.
Ray
Saw AE # 180 - MCI D4500 - with a side electronic and rear destination sign - but not programmed. Are they going to be getting the Luminators?
Also, why the hell did they put the farebox in the first seat on the right side? - anyone can play with the numbers and functions.
When LI Bus installed fareboxes in a similar location on their Ford cutaway buses (I rode one such bus once a few years ago on the JFK Flyer), the driver was able to control the farebox via a control panel located within his reach. I'm sure that Atlantic Express is going to do the same thing with their buses if needed.
The keyboard (ODI) can be put on at another location, i.e. with the driver.
Mr rt__:^)
What are your favorite SEPTA Bus Routes and why??? For some reason I like the 27, becuase it goes through many different terrains, and always uses artics, and never gets too crowded
I love the 95. The buses (el dorados) are my second favorite (the neoplan 40 footers are my favorite), and the route goes through many narrow roads between Gulph Mills and Conshohocken. It's especially fun when you ride an El Dorado or a Neoplan thats going really fast and fly down front st, which is probably one of the reasons why the 95 can only use 96 inch buses.
I'd have to say the 92, except when they put cutaways on that line.
Isn't that most of the time, though? I dislike the cutaways as well, and I'm always disappointed when I have to ride one on the 95. (I miss the days when all the buses to Penn Square, except 1, were El Dorados). BTW, I rode 2047 yesterday, which had the pull cord buzzer thing. Also, on another Cutaway note, are the people who aren't really the best bus drivers given cutaways to drive? The driver I had yesterday seemed to have a fairly hard time staying entirely in one lane.
Personally, I like the #30, that odd little line that meanders about the Westside after leaving 69th Street. It's a great line for an outsider like me to scurry about the area and just take in the scenery, and it never really gets too crowded. The 65 is a neat ride as well, though I only wish it went all the way out to Olney, instead of requiring the transfer from the 26 at G-Town and Olney.
And would you count the #66 as a SEPTA BUS Route? If so, it makes my cut as well.
I always wanted to take the 66 since I first saw it. When I saw the 66, that was the first time I ever saw, or even learned that trolley buses existed. The 30 is nice, it shows you some of the neighborhoods of philly. Plus, I don't think Haverford Avenue ever really has horrible traffic.
SEPTA has at least one train that has a full engine (sorry i dont know the name for it) and a set of bombardier coaches. I always see the train on layover at Trenton. Two questions, what is the schedule for this train and does septa plan to add more of these trains to its roster.
Also for those who have ridden it, is the ride different than the one on the silverliners? And is there one of these train sets on thre R5 too?
sorry...wrong board for this one
There are many of these trains around. They are on the R5 allk the time during peak service hours. The ride is quiet, no hum like the silverliners. The seats are also more comfortable in my opinion.
I'm only aware of one set of push-pulls for the R7 Trenton and one each for the R3 Elwyn and R3 West Trenton lines. I know of at least 3 push-pull trains used on the Paoli Line during peak hours. Most of the push-pull equipment is maintained at Frazer yard, which is just off the Paoli line between Malvern and Exton.
just got back from Atlanta.Their bus fleet is mainly New Flyer low floors in either CNG or diesel. They also have some mini-CNG buses which have one less window per side, no rear door and one hump on top vs two. They also still have some Flxibles (not new looks). Peggy took soem photos which will be sent to Dave to put on the site. Other nwe flyer cities seen include Charlottesville, VA. CObb Co. and Gwinnet Co. Ga use RTS.
I don't know about other transit agencies, but these 9300/4900 series Nova buses are complete garbage. They rattle like they're 15 years old, the suspensions are horrible and much of the interior electronics systems fail miserably, including the mirror controls and horn. The wheelchair lifts are slower, and prone to failure. The kneeling system rarely raises a loaded bus. They idle so low that at a red light you literally feel your internal organs vibrating. The farebox rattles, and the mirrors shake so profusely, they're useless until you begin driving again, not to mention the fact that attempting to view objects through the mirrors can give you a migraine. The operators seat on 9300 series buses are misaligned to the steering wheel. The seat is actually 4-6 inches from center. Most of these buses are governed at 40-45MPH.
Who was responsible for accepting such garbage? Did someone say Nova was going out of business? Good riddance.
Personally, the best bus is the original 8000 series TMC (as opposed to those horrid repowered 8's).
Are you talking about the Nova RTS? Are these the MTA's RTSs? I guess Novabus really did build shoddy buses, if they can make the RTS design , of all designs, appear non durable
What I've noticed from the Nova RTS' in Dallas was that they were not as quick as the old RTS' in DART's fleet. However, they seem to be built like tanks.
Yea well I take offense to you thinking that the Nova RTS's are trash...Maybe if they had anybody that knew how to maintain them, they would still be the great bus that they were when they were built.
Well, in that regard, and for what it's worth, the NYCTA has deemed Queens Village Depot the #1 or #2 rated maintenence department systemwide within the last 10 years (or so) fluctuating the top spot between Jamaica (I belive).
However, when I see first-hand the job by QV maintenence wedging bus maps into crevices to lessen vibration, or solidify a loose mirror for example, I can only agree with you.
It's been noted that there were suspension defects from the manufacturer. Might they have been sucessfully repaired in updated versions as in the 5000 series?
Orions are much worse than any RTS in my opinion.
The RTS 85'GMC's are the worst, especially if they came from FP or ENY.
-
Will the drought at Fresh Pond ever end? 3 years and still going.
The worst built bus in Washington were the AMG (American Motor Corporation.) They couldn't climb hills with the A/C on. They made a rapid disappearance. I know Metro bought some Neoplans, which haven't been in use for years. I'm not sure, but AFAIK, they're in storage because they were bought with federal funds and Uncle Sam says you have to keep them for X number of years before you can dispose of them.
Michael
Washington, DC
Coming to NY this weekend to go dancing -- and ride more bus routes.
The AM Generals were definitely horrible buses. I think by the time the first Flxible Metro B's came around in 1986, they were gone. Before they changed the seats inside to the red vinyl, the tweed material seats weren't the greatest. I don't know how they were for a driver, though. Its a whole different ballgame between being a passenger on the bus for a half hour and driving those things for 40+ hours/week.
Well here in Philly, (which can't take good care of a bus even if they tried ) our NEOPLANS are still running. We have a handful of '85 NEOs that are on their last miles, and that`s a miracle for a bus that's 17 years old. I know for a fact that WMATA junked their 9500 series Neoplans in '96, and that wasn't fast enough for them since half of them were dead by '93, and they had the stellar reputatuion for maintaining their buses! I got on many a WMATA Neoplan in the early 90's that looked like they ran in a war zone, (come to think of if, SE DC is a war zone), they looked really crappy.
Meanwhile up in Philly, our 8285-8434 (1st set of) Neoplans almost ran like new. They were sent to pasture by the arrival of the NABI's, (which sent the hated RTS's to the scrap pile), despite the fact that they could run for maybe another year or two more. So please don`t diss the Neoplans. Up here, they have been the reliable workhorses SEPTA has seen in a very long time, despite occasional lapses in the care of these buses.
Say what you want about Neoplan's, but they sure have lasted in PA, depsite problems early on. Once the rust problems were worked through, they were solid, reliable coaches. I don't think Neoplan has manufactured anything that qualifies for a "Worst Bus Award."
PAT Transit up in Pittsburgh which is know for less than sparkling maintance (the average bus usually breaks down 3 or 4 times within a 2-3 day period before they decide to do something about it -- even though it's been written up and written up and written up over and over again) still has a handful on 1600 series 35 foot Neoplans from the 1983 order running. They will probably run until the new Gillig 35 footers come in later this year. All of the 1983 40 foot coaches are gone (3500-3800 series), but a handful of the 1986 40 foot coaches remain. The three I know of are PAT 3907, 3923, 3932. Despite all the problems PAT had with Neoplan (the massive rusting, the lawsuit by PAT, the thrown out bids, the threat of a Neoplan lawsuit and the years of bitterness which ended about 4 yrs ago) the buses that didn't die young (many did) lasted for a long time and proved to be true workhorses.
Up in Erie, the last 8300 Neoplans which were 40 footers left the property after 18 years of hard work. And they weren't dead either. They still had life left. Hopefully, they were sold and can continue on for someone else.
Well the 85 GM's ARE 17 years old u know.....
I have to agree with you on the poor build quality of the 5000 series of Nova RTS's. At 126th Street Depot we have buses 5025-5054. After only a little more than three years of service they sound like they're ready for a visit to Nimco! They rattle and vibrate like crazy. The brakes stick and squeak, they accelerate slowly and spew out more smoke than some of the older non re-powered buses. In comparison our two oldest RTS's, #'s 3469 & 3887 which are 18 & 17 years old respectively, run much better and have fewer rattles.
As you all well know I despise the RTS because of it's lack of comfort. However, I will acknowledge that when GM made the bus it made a superior product. 3469 & 3887 are a testament to that fact.
I wish people would would stop f%&kin' bashing the RTS Novas. Tell me what bus doesn't shake when it is hits a f%&kin' bump? The 96'Novas are are 6 years old, and doing f%&kin' fine in FP, they will last just as long as those crappy 4600's and 4700's. The best GMC's were the 81' and 82'. The 83' through 87' suck.
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Will the drought at Fresh Pond ever end? 3 years and still going.
In my opinion, there's a difference between "bashing a bus" for personal reasons and stating facts. I stated facts which are common for the Nova from an operator's point of view.
Do you drive for Fresh Pond?
I have a link I want to share, but not on-hand. I'll post it in a few moments. It's regarding the Nova bus suspensions.
Here is a message from one of our Queens Village Depot maintenence employees regarding the 4900 series RTS suspensions in reply to the messages posted at the QvDepot.Com
Bus Defect Log where we list defective buses. Take note of the model that is most often listed, and you'll realize that this isn't "bashing", but rather a state of fact.
as one that drove 3469 in gleason when it was brand new i have to agree. the only upgrade in the rts that made it a better bus was the 4300`s to 4500`s . gm changed the front end to a solid front end instaed of independant suspension that was on the older models. the buses became much smoother riding buses.
The worst bus, in my experience as a driver was Iveco mini buses, and by far the smelliest (though I never drove one) has got to be the Leyland National. Some of which have been re-po
wered by Volvo.
This morning, I was on Rohr 1092 and as we pulled into Grosvenor, I saw an oragne Balios sign on a bus at the 37 bay. When I got off the train, I saw the back of the bus and it was an Orion V!!! I walked through the station and after adding money to my card, saw that this was bus number 015588, one of the new 35 foot Orion Vs. I took it. The ride was quite nice, there were no ads on the bus as of yet. I don't know what engine it has. The bars are still yellow, I guess this fad is continuing for Ride-On. The driver said it had been on the property for about 2 weeks and there were about 4 others out on the road. These buses are out of Gaithersburg but I don't know what is being displaced and what routes they are on.
Heard a report of the Orion VI on the 46 but can't confirm.
Also, the front destination sign was not working. It read NOT IN SERVICE the whole time. The console inside the bus also said NOT IN SERVICE, but the side sign said 37 POTOMAC and the rear sign said 37.
You have a pic of it by somechance?
Took 3 of the front, one of the back, approximately midway through the roll. I don't know when I will finish it.
Thanks I would be glad to see them.
I keep reading about everybody crying and complaining about depots like Fresh Pond and Ulmer Park, talking about the old, reject RTS's they have, and how they want Orion's or even Low Floor Flyers, to get some variety. I agree! However, to me, an RTS is an RTS! I don't care if it's a 1200 series or 5000 series, it's still an RTS! Folks from my generation who like GM Fishbowls like ALL fishbowls. Not just 5301's, not just 5303's, but everything else that came afterward. If the RTS is so great, as some of you say, how come you say that the 3900's make you puke? Or that the 9300's are poorly made? To me, ALL RTS's suck!
Besides the fact, for about 13 years straight, that's all NYC bought! It made for no variety for a typical bus fan. If NYC bought 2 door Classics during that period, the NYCTA would have had a nice variety, PLUS there would have been the direct descendant of the Fishbowl roaming the streets, not just the 4 or 5 Green Line or the 1 Jamaica Bus Company versions that were limited to Queens. And the express bus Classics don't count!
Classics would have been nearly impossible for NYCT to acquire in the mid 80s because GM did not have a US assembly plant for them. This was still the "Buy America" days, so unless you had both domestic content and domestic assembly, you had to prove that there was no domestic-made bus that met your needs. This was the rule that made Neoplan, MAN, Volvo, and Scania build US plants. They could not sell to American TAs without them. When MCI began assembling the Classic in Schenectady, they became US-assembled buses and met domestic rules.
What about the hundreds of Express Bus Classics bought during that period for the private companies?
all of them are MCIs except for the first three which NYBS bought themselves. All after GM had left the business and the Buy America rules had been relaxed.
In addition, the Classic did not come with a rear-door wheelchair lift option, at a time when NYCT(A) required a rear-door lift. NYCT(A)'s ban on front-door lifts came following the Grumman purchase, of which 200 had front-door lifts. The lifts were unreliable, and the front door area of the bus tends to get hit in accidents, giving NYCT(A) reason to be concerned about using front-door lifts.
David
I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the only reason that NYCTA received rear door lift buses is because RTS's ONLY CAME WITH REAR DOOR LIFTS!! Due to the design of the front door at the time, it was impossible to have front door lifts on an RTS. If RTS's had a different design at that time, I'm sure there would have been front door lifts, since that seemed to be the industry standard. And the only reason the NYCTA got rid of the Grummans...., well you all know!
It is true that the RTS only came with a rear-door lift in the early/mid-1980s, though the later RTS-8/RTS-6WFD came with a front-door lift. It is also true that the Grummans were retired early for reasons other than wheelchair lift problems. It is ALSO true that the RTS was the only bus NYCT(A) bought for a good long time. However, when Orion came along and was willing to build a bus with a rear-door lift (in New York State to boot), NYCT(A) bought it; until then, NYCT(A) bought nothing but RTS buses because the RTS had a good track record on the city's streets and because it had a rear-door lift, which was a CONTRACTUAL REQUIREMENT FOR THE PURCHASE OF BUSES BY NYCT(A).
It was a CONTRACTUAL REQUIREMENT drawn up to preclude Flx from winning bids in NYC, (legally?)
Hey...I'm not the guy who drew up the contract :-) But the requirement of a rear-door lift did exclude Flxible, as well as a host of other manufacurers.
David
I know you didn't draw up the contract; never stated that. And about that time, there really weren't a whole heck of choices out there. Many of todays popular buses were just cutting their teeth then. NYC would not take another chance on unproven products.
I have a question. If this is this case then why did transit systems like UTA in Utah, have 1983 GM Classics and Santa Monica Municipal Bus Lines and others have Canadian built fishbowls?
Thanks in advance!
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
Some states followed the "Buy America" rules more closely than others. New York State is one of them, which is why NYCDOT and the MTA are currently ordering a whole bunch of Orion Vs, which are made in Oriskany, NY I believe.
not entirely correct.
Buy America was a regulation that all federally funded TAs had to obey. Buy New York, or any other state, is illegal - you cannot disqualify or give preference based on a manufacturer's state location.
If UTA and SMMBL were not receiving federal funds in the early 80s (which is entirely possible, since smaller TAs were able to get by without them if they had dedicated local funding), then they would not be subject to the Buy America regs. To put it another way, if NJ Transit could become completely sufficient on its own revenue and state-only funds/taxes for both operating and capital expenses, then NJT would not be subject to many FTA restrictions.
I have a question. If this is this case then why did transit systems like UTA in Utah, have 1983 GM Classics and Santa Monica Municipal Bus Lines and others have Canadian built fishbowls?
Thanks in advance!
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
Then how come UTA in Salt Lake City got GM Classics back in 1984?
So, when NYCTA had a fleet of 100% fishbowls that was a variety? Please. Give me some reasons that the RTS is so bad, and the classic is so great. I can shoot down ANYTHING you bring. I've been through this too many times before. The Classic is nothing but a Fishbowl reject, the RTS is the TRUE decendent.
I realize a lot of people truly love the RTS, there are A LOT of people on the other side of the coin. Here are some reasons why the EMTA operators up here in Erie Pa hate the TMC RTS.
- The "power-stearing" these coaches came with is a joke. One of my friends who is an operator refers to them as "the boat anchors." They remind her of the old Flxible/GM Fishbowls which didn't have power-stearing, only she liked driving them.
- In the snow these buses often become uncontrollable. Several operators have slid off the road with them while "stopped" at a light. They like to "drift" while stopped.
- They are dogs from the take-off and cause you to loose time on a tight schedule.
- Heavy operators have a hard time getting into the seat. Why must the drivers area be so confined?? Passengers with shopping pull carts or really big individuals must go through the back-doors cause the first seat and the farebox and farebox poles make for a tight fit.
- The rear wheelchair lifts have a 50% fail rate. Totally unreliable. The EMTA Orion I's with the rear chair lift never had the problems the RTS had.
Find a PAT operator up in Pittsburgh that was around when they had RTS coaches and they will tell you what pieces of junk those were. Same with the original 8000 series EMTA RTS coaches. To call this bus a "decenant" of the New Look, is a disgrace to that bus!
I can't find one EMTA operator that likes the current RTS in Erie or the since retired 1980 GMC RTS either. I'm not claiming the Classic is the world's greatest bus. Sure, they have their faults and quirks, but I'd rather ride in one of them over an series or make of RTS out there. In fact, in Pittsburgh, the Classic is one of the most popular buses amongst the operators. I must admit, the Classic and Orion V are my two favorite PAT series.
>>>The "power-stearing" these coaches came with is a joke. One of my friends who is an operator refers to them as "the boat anchors." They remind her of the old Flxible/GM Fishbowls which didn't have power-stearing, only she liked driving them.<<<
I've seen operators twirl the wheel with ONE finger.
>>>In the snow these buses often become uncontrollable. Several operators have slid off the road with them while "stopped" at a light. They like to "drift" while stopped.<<<
NYCTA has about 1,000 of these buses, though they have the normal "drift factor" any other bus has, they aren't any more or less prone than your average bus. The New Flyer artics are the only buses NYCTA has to worry about performing in winter weather. Besides, an anvil will slide in the right conditions.
>>>They are dogs from the take-off and cause you to loose time on a tight schedule.<<<
Some are fast, some are slow. It depends on a HUGE variety of factors including engine/tranny combinations, type of engine, engine up kepp, etc. etc.
>>>Heavy operators have a hard time getting into the seat. Why must the drivers area be so confined??<<<
A complaint I've only heard from drivers in the NE. I've seen VERY heavy individuals in the drivers seat with plenty of room to spare.
>>>Passengers with shopping pull carts or really big individuals must go through the back-doors cause the first seat and the farebox and farebox poles make for a tight fit.<<<
The bus specs must be off. I've seen very large individuals get on the front of an RTS. Shopping carts I've never seen boarded. Besides, why would there be need to have a shopping cart on a bus anyway? But I did see an RTS board a W/C (without a lift mind you) through the front door no less. And last I checked W/C were pretty large objects.
>>>The rear wheelchair lifts have a 50% fail rate. Totally unreliable. The EMTA Orion I's with the rear chair lift never had the problems the RTS had.<<<
Wheelchair lifts are unreliable in and of themselves. The bus type doesn't really matter. And since you seem to have a bias against the RTS, I figure you would say that the Orion I had a better lift. But when you use percentages to prove your points, I must ask questions such as what is the ratio of RTS to Orions and RTS to Orion W/C boardings?
>>>Find a PAT operator up in Pittsburgh that was around when they had RTS coaches and they will tell you what pieces of junk those were. Same with the original 8000 series EMTA RTS coaches.<<<
Find an operator down here that hated them. They weren't called the "Cadillac of Buses" for nothing.
>>>call this bus a "decenant" of the New Look, is a disgrace to that bus!<<<
Your opinion, though your opinion has few proven facts to back it up. Believe me, there's a reason that over 15,000 RTS still ply the streets compared to a few thousand Classics or whatever other bus you want to mention. RTS buses outlast the Government Mandated life cycle of an average transit bus at least 75% of the time. Most of the RTS retirements are due to W/C and EPA regulations not mechanical problems. It's been proven time and time again that the RTS will keep on going. Bus operators say the RTS is like a Timex watch, "Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin.'" There's a reason why in Houston the RTS outlasted the Flxibles by two years despite being ordered four years in advance. There will NEVER be another bus like the RTS. Never. Nothing can compare, though the NFI D40LF comes close.
The only thing I can find wrong with your RTS is poor upkeep on the part of the maintanence department of EMTA. It seems of the few agencies that have had complaints about the RTS, they buy the early models (whcih lasted 22 years at WMATA I might add) and use that to brand future models garbage. Yet, in turn they buy unreliable buses (Orions) as replacements. Ridiculous.
I will say that EMTA runs a very good maintance program and although all of the series have had their share of problems but the 1st series of RTS coaches were more problematic for maintance more than anything else. Just come down here and ask the ops and talk to the maintance personel. They will tell you how much they "loved" the RTS. The happiest day at EMTA was when the last 8000 series was sold for scrap. The Neoplans from that problem plagued PennDOT order which came in three years after them just left the property in 2001. The last original RTS left in 1996. The RTS recieved the same care as the other buses. So, unless it was a big conpiracy against this coach, that should say something.
As for the TMC ones, they ARE miserable in the snow. Nothing like sliding off the road when your not even trying to go anywhere. And nobody is able to drive them with ONE finger. Comparing a NYCTA coach with an EMTA one is unfair. Totally different specs, in essense a different product. Maybe the RTS could have been a good bus here with better spec writing. If that's the case, that's a shame, but I'm just reporting our system's expirience.
As far as Orions being unreliable, except for occasional overheating, I have never met an overly problematic Orion. Most PAT operators love them, especially in the snow, 'cause they hold the road.
Obviously, you are biased so strongly in favor of this coach, you fail to see any of it's shortcommings, even if they don't exist in RTS coaches in your system. I will agree that the D40LF is a good vehicle, one that is adored here at EMTA. I understand that you admire this bus, and I respect your opinion. I just ask that you respect mine and not write it off as invalid.
First of all, the NYCTA never had a fleet of 100% Fishbowls. In the beginning, the Old Looks still ran, some until 1971! In the mid sixties, the Flxibles arrived. Though I didn't particularly care for them, at least they made things a little interesting.
The RTS's are cheap-looking plastic things that were made just to satisfy the "advanced design" requirements. The Claasic still looked like a "real" bus, sturdy and strong, and in fact from the bottom of the windows down to the wheels, the Classics WERE Fishbowls. The RTS is nothing but a decendant of a space ship made of paper mache'!
Amen to that!
>>>First of all, the NYCTA never had a fleet of 100% Fishbowls. In the beginning, the Old Looks still ran, some until 1971! In the mid sixties, the Flxibles arrived. Though I didn't particularly care for them, at least they made things a little interesting.<<<
The Flxibles WERE fishbowls, moron. Have you ever heard of the Flxible New Look? Duh!
>>>The RTS's are cheap-looking plastic things that were made just to satisfy the "advanced design" requirements.<<<
Not only did they satisfy the AD requirements, they surpassed them. That's why you have 20 year old RTS running the streets and Classics awaiting their last rites.
What's the purpose of arguing with you? You can't come up with anything but cheap insults anyway. Holla when you can match wits with me.
In the real world, when somebody says Fishbowl, people automatically think "GM". The Flxible New Looks were poor, square imitations of THE Fishbowl. Nothing matched the beautiful curves of the windshield or the exquisiteness of the "Tear Drop" windows on the front sides of the bus. And resorting to "name calling" is an immature thing, but you must be extremely young anyway to be such a lover of a modern day bus as opposed to the classy vehicles of the 60's and 70's! I'll now let you get back to your Saturday Morning Cartoons (is there still such a thing?)!
5301 fishbowl is correct when he says "fishbowl" refers to the GM product. The term was coined because of the large side windows and large bowl shaped windshield. This term was coined BEFORE Flxible came out with there equivalent. When Flxible did come out with theirs, it was also refered to as a "New Look" bus. (Duh?)
"This term was coined BEFORE Flxible came out with 'there' equivalent."
Correction "their" - it's late, I'm tired.
I also spelled "descendant" very incorrectly a few post back, don't worry about it! I'm not tired until Saturday night at 1:04 am, however!
Actually, "fishbowl" was a name coined by the bus fans, as transit fans are likely to do. On the west coast the common name is "dreamliner". "New Look" is the actual name of buses of the post-"old-look" era. Until, of course, the ADB era.
jrc
Well, in the real world most intelligent people embrace modern technology. Since you're so in love with the past I suggest you find a nice Amish community. It'd save this forum from reading your uninformed drivel.
And you have yet to present ANY facts that state why the Classic was a better performing bus than the RTS. You just use poor evasive tactics around the argument. Do you even know anything about the so-called "decendant" of your favorite bus? Judging by your overall poor posting I seriously doubt it.
And for me to be so young, I've dragged your old ass to the corner and back in this debate. Try to keep up old man.
And you have yet to present ANY facts that state why the Classic was a better performing bus than the RTS.
In all these posts, you've failed to give any reasons why the RTS is so much better than the Classic. All you've done is compared the number of RTS's to Classics. Just because there are more RTS coaches out there doesn't mean they perform any better. Have you ever even rode a NovaBUS Classic?
Take a trip to Chicago or Buffalo or Pittsburgh and ride the Nova Classic before you bash it. If it was such a horrible bus, why did it last as long as it did. If it was a true bad bus, it wouldn't have made it through the 80's. One of the main reason the Classic was made, was for the Canadian properties that thought the RTS sucked and wanted nothing to do with it.
Since when does Chicago have Classics? I know they have Nova LFS, Flxibles (that are to be retired) and RTS (which are being overhauled for another 10+ years of service), and some MANS.
The numbers speak for themselves. If the Classics were such good buses, why don't they last as long as the RTS? The only reason there are any Classics left at NYCDOT is because they can't seem to procure a bus to replace them. If the Classics are such a runaway success, why didn't NYCTA buy them back in the 80s? They are an average bus, that's why.
Look at the numbers. They're more RTS because they last longer, more were bought because they were proven workhorses. They out performed any bus they were put against. Looking at the success of the RTS in so many different type of transit systems, when a couple of TAs have complaints about the RTS, usually the early models, I have to assume it's bad maintanence. Even WMATA squeezed 22 years out of the RTS-03s.
The hate for the RTS stems from the simple fact that in the end they will be looked at as the LAST successfully built bus that was meant to last more than 12 years. They are on the verge of eclipsing the New Look in that department.
I can attack numerous points of other buses while RTS detractors only attack the looks of the bus. Can you be anymore pathetic?
No more pathetic than your weak attempts at trying to discredit a very credible vehicle.
You admit in a previous post that WMATA never bought any more RTS's... If they were soo incredibly awesome, why didn't they signup for more?
You like to play the "bad maintance" game... Two can take that route. Perhaps some of the Classics would have laster longer with better maintance, more TLC.
At EMTA, the problem plagued Neoplans were the true bus in the 80's. Once they worked through their problems, THEY were the workhorses. The only time you saw an RTS out on the road was to fill in when Neoplan needed an oil change or new tires.
My loathing of the RTS is not a shallow "I think they look weird" type deal. I have issues with the way they handle, the way they ride, and the way they rattle (the pharse "trash can on wheels" was uttered by one EMTA operator in refrence to your cadilac of a bus). And the interior... It's almost like their designed to be greenhouses. Why no light? What so dark and dingy??!! Let their be light!
BTW, http://www.busexplorer.com/NABus/MidSize/PaceNovaClassic.html
pictures of PACE (Chicago) NovaBUS Classics. You still never answered my question about riding a NovaBUS Classic and you still have yet to list in detail SPECIFIC aspects and issues of the CLASSIC (as I have done SEVERAL times in regards to the RTS) that you take issue with. The, "there are more RTS buses and some systems kept the really long" aint' cutting it. Come on, as Emeril would say, "let's kick it up a knotch."
Hey 2150 at the risk of being attacked I will ask if you have ever ridden a Fishbowl? You never answered if you had ridden a Classic either. Let the insults begin! :)
No, I won't insult you. You didn't go on an idiotic diatrebe about the RTS using clever facts like it "sucks" or is "ugly." You just asked a simple question. So here's the answer. I've never ridden a Fishbowl NOR have a ridden a Classic. There you go.
DOT could order the MCI express buses currently running at YUK,CAS and ULP.
They're very big, and MCI has an exclusive contract to maintain (mechanically) the MCI coaches.
Stuart, RLine86Man (from Subtalk)
"Well, in the real world most intelligent people embrace modern technology."
True, as long as the modern technology is superior to the technology it is replacing.
In addition to all that has been said about the RTS, it is not an efficient mover of passengers. The 40 foot transit fishbowl could seat 53 people if configured with maximum seats. When configured the way it was in most TA buses, the number of people seated and standing, far exceeds that of an RTS.
The RTS is an extremely heavy vehicle, and because of this, it's fuel ecomomy is not as good as a fishbowl.
I also believe that passenger flow entering and exiting the bus was better in a fishbowl (and Flxible equivalent) because the rear exit door was not as far back as it is on the advance design models. Since more people could fit in the rear of the bus, more people were inclined to use the rear door as an exit.
On an aesthetic view, the fishbowl was a good looking vehicle. A lot of design work went into the look of that bus. Looking at an RTS, I can't imagine how much imagination it took to design this lifeless, plain, plastic looking vehicle.
As far as variety, back in the fishbowl era (in NYC), just fishbowls alone -
there were airconditioned and non, there were standee windows and not, there were bus-o-rama "wings" and not, there were green ones, blue ones, white ones and variations of each. There were some with all logitudinal seats, all forward facing seats and a combination of both!
Thanks,
Steve
You're obviously a Fishbowl Fanboy. What facts do you know? Your whole post is littered with "I thinks" and "I believes." Come on boy, get with the times.
>>>As far as variety, back in the fishbowl era (in NYC), just fishbowls alone -
there were airconditioned and non, there were standee windows and not, there were bus-o-rama "wings" and not, there were green ones, blue ones, white ones and variations of each. There were some with all logitudinal seats, all forward facing seats and a combination of both!<<<
You want to play that game little boy? Let's go....
In the RTS era (now) there are these variations....
-Ones with stee rims
-Aluminum rims
-6v92TA engines
-6v71N engines
-Cummins L10G
-Cummins M11E
-Buses with police lights
-Buses without police lights
-Buses with ads
-Buses without
-RTS with slopedbacks
-RTS without
-RTS with modified slopedback
-30ft. RTS
-35ft. RTS
-40ft. RTS
-60ft. RTS
-65ft. RTS
-T Drive RTS
-V Drive RTS
-RTS with one door
-RTS with two
-RTS Transit
-RTS Suburban
-RTX
-RTS-01
-RTS-03
-RTS-04
-RTS-05
-RTS-06
-RTS-08
Do you want me to stop now or further embarrass you?
If you read Mr. Olsen's post carefully, he was referring to just NEW YORK CITY:
>>>As far as variety, back in the fishbowl era (in NYC), just fishbowls alone -
there were airconditioned and non, there were standee windows and not, there were bus-o-rama "wings" and not, there were green ones, blue ones, white ones and variations of each. There were some with all logitudinal seats, all forward facing seats and a combination of both!<<<
The variations of RTS's that you listed were INDUSTRY WIDE. In New York City, with a few SLIGHT barely noticeable alterations over the years, the RTS was white with a blue stripe. Period. and there was no variations in the seating except for a few buses that had the "double seats" on the left side.
and those were either RTS express buses, or 4800-series seat changes--from express bus soft seaters to hard seaters.
Stuart, RLine86Man
Speaking of embarrassment, you should be suffering some, since you're wrong in your "list" on a few points.
- The articulated RTS models were 56 and 61 feet, not 60 and 65.
- The RTX was designed in 1967, so your "modern design" theory is out the window - that was less than 10 years after the first Fishbowl prototype
- your so-called "variations" of things like wheels, ad racks, and engines are pretty pointless - ALL buses have options like that. Did you know Fishbowls had electronic destinations signs? And you left out a LOT of engines that were available.
- the change from slopeback to squared was because of a horrendous design flaw in the engine cooling and HVAC systems. They were both crammed in the radiator compartment and overheated daily. That is why the HVAC was moved into the new square cap (the actual steel body is still the sloped design underneath). The "modified slopebacks" were made by companies trying to take advantage of the TAs that were literally broiling themselves
- It took 23 years for the RTS suburban to have underfloor luggage compartments - fishbowl suburbans had them from day 1 in 1960. NJ Transit still has SDM5301 serial number 001 in their historic fleet.
- no RTS has ever had the option of a manual transmission.
- and you left out the RTS-07, the TMC-built T-drives which are still on the road in suburban Detroit
shall *I* go on?
Okay, let's go.
>>>The articulated RTS models were 56 and 61 feet, not 60 and 65.<<<
I'll give you that.
>>>The RTX was designed in 1967, so your "modern design" theory is out the window - that was less than 10 years after the first Fishbowl prototype<<<
Read the posts, this has already been stated, by myself. And, um, I don't see any RTX models running the streets, do you? Therefore, the RTS is semi-modern being produced from 1977 on. And it still beats the Classic if you want to get technical because the Classic is just a re-designed, boxy fishbowl. So the RTS has about 20 years on the Classic and Fisbowl.
>>>your so-called "variations" of things like wheels, ad racks, and engines are pretty pointless - ALL buses have options like that. Did you know Fishbowls had electronic destinations signs? And you left out a LOT of engines that were available.<<<
If you had read the post I was was respnding to, you know why I would have made such a pointless list. He did the same thing. My poit that was to be made that a Fishbowl is a Fishbowl, Bus-O-Rama ads notwithstanding, and an RTS is an RTS, slopedback notwithstanding. And duh, New Looks had electronic destination signs, I first saw tham on Houston's Fishbowls. And I left out engones? Thanks for helping MY cause.
>>>the change from slopeback to squared was because of a horrendous design flaw in the engine cooling and HVAC systems. They were both crammed in the radiator compartment and overheated daily. That is why the HVAC was moved into the new square cap (the actual steel body is still the sloped design underneath). The "modified slopebacks" were made by companies trying to take advantage of the TAs that were literally broiling themselves<<<
Something I've gone into detail to document in this forum before. If you noticed, which you have not, I have made reference to the "early models" of the RTS. And what early models would I be referring to? Oh yeah, the HVAC probelm plagued 01 and 03.
>>>It took 23 years for the RTS suburban to have underfloor luggage compartments - fishbowl suburbans had them from day 1 in 1960. NJ Transit still has SDM5301 serial number 001 in their historic fleet.<<<
Oh boy.
>>>no RTS has ever had the option of a manual transmission.<<<
And that's a BAD thing?
>>>and you left out the RTS-07, the TMC-built T-drives which are still on the road in suburban Detroit<<<
Even better.
>>>shall *I* go on?<<<
You shall.
And you wonder why no one will debate with you in a civil manner.
I happen to like the RTS, but I can admit in a hurry that it is FAR from the best bus GM or anyone else ever made. Have you noticed that over the years, the RTS has continually added more and more options that were STANDARD on the Fishbowl?
If you had read the post I was was respnding to, you know why I would have made such a pointless list. He did the same thing. My poit that was to be made that a Fishbowl is a Fishbowl, Bus-O-Rama ads notwithstanding, and an RTS is an RTS, slopedback notwithstanding. And duh, New Looks had electronic destination signs, I first saw tham on Houston's Fishbowls. And I left out engones? Thanks for helping MY cause.
Read your own post, smart-mouth. You combined a list of NYCTA options with a longer list of general options and model configurations that had nothing to do with NYC. If you're going to debate a poiunt, keep the same consistency, and you might be taken seriously.
You remind me of a kid from the newsgroups a few years back. Everything he said about the Gillig Phantom was gospel, and all other opinions (and buses) were worthless. You two must be related.
What are you not getting. Steve Olson's list of "variety" was pointless in the first place. So, I beat him at his own game by making a list of my own. And what rule stated the list had to be of NYC buses only? And how did we get on Fishbowls anyway? I thoguht this was about Classics? Where's the consistency.
And what rule stated the list had to be of NYC buses only? His list. And BTW--I've seen some pretty stupid attacks on message boards, but this is an all time low...
I have read thru this crap about what is better and what is junk. You guys write about what buses ride better or look better or whatever. How can you try and judge something that you have never worked on? The early production RTS design was flawed seriously from the beginning. The front suspension was changed to eliminate sway. Unfortunately it made the bus ride like it was a spring ride. The ride was so bad that it was cracking the structure that holds the entire front wheel assy. to the bus. The climate control system was horible as heat rises and the engine muffler was located directly below the AC unit. DUMB There was also many frame problems do to the fatigue caused by the A arm type front suspension. The RTS was and is still a very heavy bus. Common sense will tell you that with the extra weight there is extra wear on EVERYTHING. The wedge type brakes that the RTS was delivered in were awful as they grabbed when hot and constantly came out of adjustment. After many many complaints about the cost to run and maintain the RTS, they finally did something to make it lighter. They changed the front suspensions back to the same type used to this day on the FISHBOWLS. Its called rolling lobe. Thats what changed the ride. Also the AC systems were redesigned to deflect the heat of the engine compartment. The RTS has proven to be a work horse for the transit industry but only after many many complaints by EVERYBODY in the industry. Keep in mind that when the Fishbowl was new it also had many problems that were worked out. Everyone talks about how bad a bus is.... Its only as good as the people that maintain it. From a business standpoint... The RTS cost much more to operate and maintain because of the weight and the lack of ease to repair anything. I have been in charge of many rebuilding programs for the RTS/TMC/Fishbowl/Gillig and others. RTS's are the hardest bus to maintain MECHANICALLY than any other besides the rolling crap wagons we call Gilligs. You can debate what looks good or rides good but when in business you have to decide what will bring you the most return and the RTS isnt and wasnt that bus. A note to RTS 2150. Before you start with your ramblings...... HAVE YOU EVER MAINTAINED ANY TYPE OF BUS INCLUDING THE RTS? Your riding the RTS doesnt make it a better bus. As with any new model bus they all have there problems. Thru the years the RTS has proven itself but only after many many modifications most of which were designed by the poor mechanic that was forced to keep this bus on the road. GMC didnt care about it and they just said, this is what we build... take it or leave it. Please dont try and bash people about something that you have never had the misfortune to work on. Let the BS begin....
Now for the body problems of the RTS. For those of you who dont know the RTS basically has 2 bodies. It first has a shell that the outer body panels connect to. Which in part has alot to do with the weight problems. It was a nice idea for ease of accident repairs. The problem is that when the bus was hit hard enough to break thru the fiberglass panels the underbody would be damaged. The underbody is welded together at all points and to repair this meant that the area had to be cut out. Now instead of a panel replacement... you have a major repair to the structural body. Instead of a 2 hour panel replacement.. you have 4 days in the shop with a qualified welder. That was and is still a major complaint with body men. The windows weigh alot and to be replaced they must slide thru a rubber hinge at the top. What use to be a one man job on a fishbowl is now a job that takes 2 men, a forklift and according to the book is allowed 9 hours to replace one window assy. Lets move on to the interior body. Since the ride was so bad on the RTS the interior basically just tore itself up. You shake something around for a few years and things will break. The RTS had many problems with where the seat assy's connect to the walls they would crack. Look at the floors of any early RTS and you will more than likely find cracks on atleast half of them. The common area for cracking on the RTS was right behind the front wheels on the floor. From the standpoint of the comapnys that were stuck with these buses....... You have to adapt. You can make anything work if you are forced to and in the transit industry that is what happened. When the RTS arrived it was touted as state of the art. You compare ANY mechanical times to replace parts or simple maintenence from the fishbowl/classic to the RTS and you will see the difference. try and change an air compressor on an RTS at allowed time of 12 hours and on the fishbowl it takes you 3. At 20 bucks an hour or so for the mechanic.... there is a huge difference. Why do you think not very many private companys without funding bought the RTS?
>>>Your riding the RTS doesnt make it a better bus. As with any new model bus they all have there problems.<<<
I've already stated that. Go back and read please.
And I've heard VERY different opinions from yours on people who've actually *gasp* WORKED ON THE RTS! What a concept! Yep, I've visited a garage where there were about 100 RTS stationed and the drivers and mechanics had nothing but praise for them. Their only complaint was the lack of W/C lift and their age had made them VERY slow. Other than that they were excellent buses.
Some of the things that the maintenence department liked about them is that they were easy to work on! What did I say? They were easy to work on! Yep, trained journeyman mechanics said that. It had VERY easy access to the engine via some type of device I've forgotten, and the body panels are easy to replace.
For all of your harping over the RTS cost more compared to this or were harder to work with because of that, Houton's and many other TAs RTS lasted quite a time. For a bus that's so expensive and time consuming to maintain, I'd think that cost conscience and time aware TAs would have stopped buying this bus long ago. Unlike the Fishbolw, the RTS faced domestic and foreign competition. The fact that some fleets were even 80-100% RTS at one point is a testament to the relaiblity and dependability of the bus. And remember, this in the era of competition.
The only cost related issues Houston had with the RTS is that GM was never the lowest bidder and that a 20 year old bus was very costly to maintain, but they said ANY bus was a high cost, not just the RTS. I do my research despite what you may think.
And you think just because you've worked on a bus, you can say I don't qualify to judge it? Please. People critique movies and don't make them, but, I guess that's okay. Historians don't have time machines to go back and get a hands on feel of what they're researching, but does it discedit them? No, it does not. But of course, I see the same old bull on here about, "Well you haven't blah blah blah."
Just as I thought. I refuse to play your game.
The only person in the entire universe who is qualified to judge anything is you.
The question HAS STILL BEEN LEFT UNANSWERED. I think the silence speaks for itself. You refuse to answer or address the question, have you ever RODE a NovaBUS Classic (the 4th time asking it) or a Fishbowl for that matter. I have. I have rode Flxible New Looks, GM New Looks and practically any thing else out there.
I don't think you have and I think it is ridiculous to judge a bus that you have only seen pictures of (debatable too by how you describe it). Talk to me about a NovaBUS Classic when you have rode one day after day. You don't even know what cities have them, such as PACE in Chicago.
And it still beats the Classic if you want to get technical because the Classic is just a re-designed, boxy fishbowl.
The Fishbowl was good enough to have a bus based on it. I don't see anyone waiting in line to build a re-designed RTS. As is, the company that builds it doesn't even want to make it anymore. Not holding out much hope for a legacy like the New Look, which still lives vicariously through the Classic (a reason RTS fans hate this bus) You are not the bus god of the Western World! Have you ever looked at a Classic? It's obvious you never rode one, but look at a picture or something... What's boxy about it? The front is square, but the bus has a lot of definition and personality. An Orion is boxy, especially the back... So is a Gilig. Hold their pictures to one of a Classic.
You have done nothing more than taken cheap shots at anyone with an opposing view and voice ignorant opinions about vehicles you have no/little experience riding. You have not discredited the Classic. All you have discredited is yourself , with your mass of incorrect information everyone else has to correct and your "holier than thou" attitude. Wise up kid, this is the big leagues.
Let's try for a fifth time... Have you ever ridden a NovaBUS Classic? I think a lot of the RTS fans harbor resentment towards the Classic because it was a thorn in the side of the RTS. Never to the point of really seriously hurting the RTS, but think of all the cities that would have RTS though if it wasn't for Classic. Especially in Canada. Most properties took delivery on Classics because they heard about the RTS problems or had a bad batch themselves. That is exactly why Pittsburgh got them. They didn't want the NovaBUS RTS and they have been very pleased with their Classics. In fact, the ones with the new Recaro seats are in high demand because of their comfort, easy maneuverability, power and performance.
Not to mention all of the Classics that Ct. Transit purchased a few years back for Stamford, New Haven and Hartford. And not to forget SEAT's Classics in New London and Norwich.
By the way, I think the "silence" you refer to is just "2150" resting up so he can inflict his anger and bitterness toward people he disagrees with!
I have to go to work, but this one sentence sums up your intelligence....
>>>As is, the company that builds it doesn't even want to make it anymore. Not holding out much hope for a legacy like the New Look, which still lives vicariously through the Classic (a reason RTS fans hate this bus)<<<
You may or may not have known this, but the Classic and the RTS were built by the same company. In 1996, Nova KILLED OFF the Classic design (after 13 years) and the RTS line continued. That was five years ago. And despite the news to the contrary there has been NO OFFICIAL word that the RTS is dead, though it seems that way as of now. So tell me, how is the Classic, let alone the Fishbowl living vicariously through anything?
So let's look at the legacies for Canada AND the US on these buses....
GM New Look 1959-1977 (18 years/27 if you want to get technical)
RTS 1977-Present (25 Years)
Classic 1983-1996 (13 Years)
Technicalities barred, the RTS has the longest production span of any of these three models. If they were so shoddy as you have us to believe, why did they outlast the venerable New Looks and riveted Classic?
Don't talk to me like I'm a bus idiot. Just because you are ignorant, doesn't mean the rest of us are. (Why do they give little boys computers with Internet Explorer?)
The RTS and Classic have ALWAYS been made by the same company. I never claimed they were not. Just because you can't get your facts straight, doesn't mean I can't. The Clasic was offered by GM, MCI/TMC and finally Nova as the RTS has been. When NovaBUS won the PAT bid, PAT HATED the RTS so much, NovaBUS sold them the Classics instead. If there was no Classic, PAT would have got RTS and that is how the Classic design competed with RTS, despite they were built by the same companies and interests.
Nova discontinued the Classic to expand their focus on the Low-Floor market with the LFS coach. Now the RTS is getting ditched for the same EXACT reason.
The reason the RTS coaches have lasted longer is that bigger sysstems bought them. Bigger systems have to keep equipment longer, cause they have more of it. Quite the concept, huh. 800-1000 RTS's are harder to phase out than 50-100 Classics. All of the systems you quote as having kept RTS's for an extrodinary period of time are LARGE systems, that probably didn't have any choice but to fix those buses due to lack of funding for new equipment. Any of the systmes that kept RTS coaches so long, could have kept a Classic just as long as well if needed be.
The Classic was primarily the bus the three manufactors used for the properties that didnt' want a RTS headache. It did pretty well for itself too. Now really, in theory, if the RTS was so superior, no Classics would have sold. There would not have been a market or demand for them. The Classic went where the RTS wasn't wanted. And it lasted for over a decade!
I'll ask for you sixth time? Have you even rode a Nova Classic? I didn't think so. You conviently forget to address this point in each of your posts. Let's continue this when you've actually taken a ride on the coach your trashing.
...because "RTS_2150" doesn't get it, and never will.
It took the RTS 25 years to get to 20,000 units, and that's a total of GMC, TMC, and Nova. The GMC New Look, Pontiac MI production only, was 33,600 units in just 18 years. GM Canada built an additional 10,700 New Looks 1960-1986. They also built 353 Classics (1982-86) *before* MCI and Nova, including 53 artics. My math tells me GM was way more successful with the riveted New Look than the RTS.
Please explain to me what SERIOUS competition the New look had besides it's rip-off clone the Flx New Look? None? Thank you.
Looks like you don't get the simple concept of a changing market place.
From all accounts and recollections, the New Look bus, both Flx and GMC, were faced with the same SERIOUS competition the old looks had and the streetcar had prior to that. The private auto. Just as streetcar companies needed to update or die, which many did, even with the advent of "modern" buses, the cycle surged again necessitating a more modern bus design. The New Look bus, under its many configurations and names, struggled and won back many riders that would have otherwise been lost. Others, such as Mack's New Look, made it just barely into the new "era" and then died. Unfortunate. And those operators of GMC & Flx New Looks survived until the obvious next step, the ADB. These, of course, were the offspring of the infamous "white book" specs and the Transbus. Many folks on this board don't know of these events or even care to know. As bus enthusiasts, and in effect, historians, it is we that carry on these informations to future generations, like it or not. And like it or not, many operators had to buy the ADB. There are those that found comfort in buying New Looks to the end; then it was onto the Classic. Witness N Y Bus Service. No slouch operation by any means.
With the ADB, we lost buses lighter in weight, elaborate paint schemes replaced by boring white. With GM it was take the RTS our way or not at all. TMC and Nova did manage to change that, thankfully.
Also lost was interior paint and wall panelling. There isn't a heck of a lot that can be done with the window posts on an ADB bus.
With the ADB we received inferior airconditioning. Many passengers were taken to kicking out these windows in extreme heat. Hence the redesign of the slope back to the square. Cleveland had RTS's run out of fuel in mid-runs. No fuel gauges.
Because of the Grumman debacle there is no doubt many of today's buses exist. In the early days of the RTS and 870, Gillig was a school bus builder; Neoplan built coaches, in the US, and several types in Europe. Orion had the 01 model, not considered a viable product for many big time operators. Flyer was still Canadian. AMGeneral was gone.
I have seen quoted in newspapers by David Gunn that many industry people did not consider the RTS to be such a hot bus. It was ordered repeatedly as a matter of consistency. The wheel chair spec, at the front door, was written to exclude Flx from bidding. As the years went on, new competition arose and RTS sales fell. At its folding, Flx was building the lion's share of transit buses.
The RTS like the Flx ADB is now history. Like it or hate it, another page has turned in transit bus history.
jrc
It was the CLASSIC that was a decsendent of the Fishbowl, and they were both produced at the same time, in the same plant, in Canada!
Whatever. The RTS had been in the works to replace the Fishbowl since 1967. For all of you New Look fanboys who understand little, 1967! When was the classic produced, late 70's, early 80s? There's about a ten year difference there.
Also, the only reason New Looks and Classics were built in Canada is because the US had given up on that obsolete design and production in the US was halted. NEXT!
Don't be so rude - you seem to think you are some kind of know-it-all. It sure appears you don't know so much......
Get your facts straight, the Classic was started in 1983. And if the GM Fishbowl was such an obsolete design, then why were there so many Canadian units ordered by US systems?????
I see a contradiction between two threads posted here. In this thread RTS 2150 states that the RTS goes back to 1967. In another long debated thread RTS 2150 states that the RTS goes back to 1977. Also, U.S. transit agencies didn't give up on the fishbowls because of their obsolete design but rather to continue to receive government funding, they were pushed into purchasing advanced design vehicles. Many U.S. transit agencies would have continued to purchase the New Looks.
The RTS does date back to 1967 as the RTX prototype bus. The first PRODUCTION RTS hit the streets of Long Beach in 1977. See the difference. No contradiction, just misinterpretation.
NYCTA has NEVER been 100% fishbowls.
Wayne
Very well. According to one of the posters I've been "debating" with, the last Old Looks were gone by 1971. I'd like to know what bus models NYCTA employed in their fleet between then and 1980.
My bad! I didn't realized they already addressed that.
Between 1971 and 1980. NYCTA purchased GMC T6H-5309A/10A, Flxible 53102-6-1 (7000-7204, 7300-7361), Flxible 53102-6-1 (7500-7659, 7700-7937), Flxible 53102-6-1 (9000-9154, 9165-9309) and Flxible 53102-8-1 (9155-9164).
Wayne
NYCTA Old Looks ran until 1973. Last one I saw was #7030 out of Fresh Pond winding down on a Friday evening. The next day the new 5309A's went into service.
Hey, I got it from one of the Fishbowl fans.
NYCTA has NEVER been 100% fishbowls. Now they have been 100% New look with both GMC and Flxible new looks.
Wayne
That's basically having GMC and Nova RTS running around. One's a cheap, poorly built ripoff of the other one.
RTS 2150 suggests Fishbowls at one time covered 100% of NYCTAs routes and that's not really true. Fishbowls were running the streets when early on - MACKs were in service along with Old Looks. Later on, Fishbowls were in service along with Flxibles. So at No time were Fishbowls 100% of the fleet.
While having a few minutes to look at www.mtamaryland.com, I was checking out their commuter bus lines and noticed midday service from Hagerstown to Bethesda. That part was intriguing, but the better part was when I went further into the legend where they described how to read the schedule, I noticed this:
No. 900 Line Southbound from Springfield to Capital City:
Springfield:
Quik E Mart
Evergreen Terrace
Nuclear Power Plant
Springfield Elementary School
Capital City:
Crosstown Bridge
The Penny Loafer
4th and D
Duff Brewery
It than gave them pseudo times. Its great to see a transit system with a sense of humor. It didn't hit me until I started reading more what they were doing!
The Simpsons and transit have always seemed to get along pretty well. Now, I will go and watch the "Soul Mass Transit System". : )
What route is Hagerstown to Bethesda? You sure it wasn't the 991 to Shady Grove?
It is the 991. They apparantly have some kind of midday extension to Rock Spring.
It isn't on the Ride-On map...
Speaking of Rock Spring, they should make either the 47 or the 96 a 7 day route between the Mall and Grosvenor.
Its on the MTA website at www.mtamaryland.com, under the commuter routes.
991 has been extended
Does anyone have any detailed info on the routing involved
THank you
Steve
Can anyone assist me in this request
Battery Park City Authority Route
From River Terrace and Chambers via River Terrace,Warren Street,North End Av South Plaza (west side),
Murray St,North End Avenue,World Financial Plaza,Liberty Street,South End Av,West Thames St,Battery Place to Battery Plaza..
Return on Battery Plaza,Battery Place,West Thames St.South End Av,Liberty St,,World Financial Plaza,North End Av North End Av North Plaza (east side),
Chambers Street,River Terrace.
On Saturday and Sundays,,,continue via State Street,Water Street,to South Street Seaport.
Return via Fulton St,around the Park Plaza,and back on Water Street
M9 via Water Street ,State Street,Battery Plaza,Battery Place,West Thames St,South End Av,Albany Av and Terminate.
Return via Albany Av,West St,West Thames St,Battery Place,Battery Plaza,State St,Water St and regular
M20 M22 and the X25
Via Chambers St,River Terrace and Stand.
Return via River Terrace,Vessey St,North End Av North Plaza (East Plaza) ,Chambers Street
The NYCTA has issued a pamphlet titled "Getting Around Downtown" which details the above, as well as provides a bus/subway map and helpful route information. The pamphlet also includes helpful online resources.
Call 1-888-NYCTBUS and request a copy of "Getting Around Downtown, a guide to public transportation in Battery Park City and the Financial District", or obtain your copy from buses (when available).
That guide doesn't show the terminals, though. Just the routes. I was suprised by this, was anyone else?
I gave the Terminal Points
It's also available online (although this may not be identical to the printed version, which I have not yet seen).
Here's one i heard today. There are currently 4 4700's at Ulmer Park that are out of service parked at the bark of the outside garage. I asked my friend on the b64 if these buses are to be reput into service. He said that the buses are too old and that there is no rebulting of their engines in service. Supposedly, Ulmer Park is losing the 4700's and 4800's. My friend said they were getting more 9000's. Does this mean somewhere 9000's are comning(maybe from Gun Hill as more orion VII arrive)-someone let me know.
B64-run 011-#9309 NOVABUS
///Does this mean somewhere 9000's are comning(maybe from Gun Hill as more orion VII arrive)-someone let me know.
Yeah, let's see THAT happen...I'd like to see that while I'll be sitting on cloud nine chewing on Jolly Ranchers (lol)...
What I'd like to see are 5200s or 9000s from ENY moved to UP or some of the 5000-5100 series Novas from Flatbush or something...BUT...with the bus situation, WHO KNOWS what DOB will do...
Cleanairbus
Repower them too!!!!!!!!!!1
they can take all the 5000`s out of flatbush . those buses are pieces of junk. i rather drive a 4600 or a 4700
Apparently, UP and Gleason employees have nothing better to do than start these silly rumors.
1) The 47-4800's are going NOWHERE, for now. True enough, buses that have developed engine troubles will not be repowered. One or two may even be scrapped, however, there will be no mass bus moves/swaps taking place until new buses arrive, which leads me to...
...2) The Orion VII (its return to Gun Hill notwithstanding) is still being tested and evaluated by NYCT. Overall deliveries to Mother Hale and QV are still, at least, a year away.
Bottom line--GET USED TO WHAT EVER FLEET YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD DEPOTS MAY HAVE TODAY, FOR THERE WILL BE VERY LITTLE CHANGE UNTIL NEXT YEAR.
Mark
THANK GOD I'M GOING TO SEE MORE R143 SUBWAY CARS NEAR ME!
-
Jay
Enjoy!
If you cannot see the image, here's the link...enjoy!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Awwww! Damn, Geocities is messing you up too!
I would appreciate it if you'd result to another word other than "enjoy" as I've kinda coined that phrase for my photos.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
Geocities doesn't allow remote loading anymore :-(
Oh, really? IS THAT SO??!?!?!
Well, we'll have to see about that...
Peace!
CarlWal...just got in from an Orion VI-filled day...
Which is the exact reason TransiTALK is/has invested in a server of its own! Geocities used to be pretty cool, now that Yahoo brought them out, they just suck BAWLZ!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
Once(if) they give me trouble, I'll need to find a new server too. Do you still use NameZero?
BTW--If anyone wants free servers, check out www.fateback.com. Only prob is that you can't upload files over 200K. www.portland.co.uk is excellent, no file limits that I know of.
Cheers and Kudos (lol) to Tevi...for that server option... :)
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Okay, Trevor...you can have your word...from now on, I will use the word...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
Damn Trevor
Regards,
Nappy
It's called Originality!!! That's All....Sorry for being so blunt, but It's just me.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
When is Trainsitalk coming back. I looking forard to look at all the bus and trains photo that you have. You take some great shots.
Robert
page not avaible.
Try the link I posted...THAT at least should be the link to the pic...
Carlton
Can y'all see it now? Is so, Mazeltov! (I'm just trying this phrase out, do not take it the wrong way or take it too personally...BTW, what does that phrase mean?))
If not, Try this link...
Cool pic! Actually, mazeltov means congratulations, so either you didn't use it right, or you're congratulating yourself :)
Ok, so then Mazeltov (Tevi, you're right, I ain't using it right) will not be used...but thanks for the comments...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
No problema.
Actually, mazeltov means congratulations...
Or, literally, good luck. It can also be used facetiously (Three windows fell out of the Orion VII when it hit a pothole; mazel tov!).
LOL!!
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
I do have a Desktop Wallpaper size of the NJT MCI photo if you wish to have it, I usually don't keep the large files after I cut them down to 600x450, but since you've been asking I've been trying to keep a few just in case you ask.
Sorry I didn't know your e-mail off hand.....Apologies to the BT Crew for this personal post.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
So now they are running D4000's on this route. When I rode the 171 a few years ago, I rode a 31xx Flxible, rough ride (on Rt 4) and all!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Broken Link buddy! Please try again.
Thanks.
#951 Amtrak AEM-7
It's not a broken link, but as someone mentioned before, geocities isn't allowing remote loading anymore, but here's a way to get around it. Surf to http://www.geocities.com/transitdownloads. Then once that page has loaded (it should say “I haven't started building my site yet”, etc.), put http://www.geocities.com/transitdownloads/NovaBUS_M20_5175.JPG in the address bar. Problem solved :).
Here's the image that i promised to show you...
I have realized (now, I realized after everyone knew that already, sheesh) that Geocities sucks now, so I moved that image onto another server...
BTW, here's another one...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Thanks for the shots. They really came out good.
Geocities has been a poor excuse for a server as of late-and I have an idea why-because it is free.
#951 Amtrak AEM-7
So is the server I'm using...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Wemaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
On Thursday January 17 Valley Metro Phoenix Is Offering Free Service As Part Of Try Transit Week, However It's Only On The 7 New Flyer LF40 Arizona Lottery Rapped Buses. the buses will be operating on the following bus routes:
Red Line Metrocenter To Mesa
Blue Line Paradise Valley Mall To Southern Avenue
Green Line (Thomas Road) Desert Sky Mall To Pima Road, Scottsdale
0 - Central Avenue Sunnyslope To Dobbins Road
41 - Indian School Desert Sky Mall To Loloma Station, Scottsdale
61 - Southern Avenue 43 Ave To Power Road, Mesa
72 - Scottsdale Road/Rural Road
Bell Road/Frank LLoyd Wright Blvd, Scottsdale
To Intel/Chandler Blvd, Chandler
156 - Chandler Blvd Intel/Rural Road, Chandler To
Chandler Gilbert CC, Chandler
Isn't Odd Just These Buses Only For Free Service?
Try Transit Week was moved to January? It was originally the week of September 10, so we all know what happened after that. I wonder if it will be in September this year as well. It has been that way ever since the first, which was in May.
Once upon a time, BusTalk used to be a great source of information and news for "bus fans". I would log on, and to check out the latest sightings, and pending news. It was great--key word "WAS". Now BT is being inundated with kids asking stupid, inane and repetitive questions that make no sense!! In addition to the dumb-ass questions, there are also the dumb-ass rumors. The ones regarding UP losing its 4700's and NYCT CNG Orions going to Command were the last straw, as far as I'm concerned. If you hear a rumor, USE YOUR HEAD and ask yourself, "Does this make sense?" If there is a shred of doubt in your brains, DO NOT POST THE MESSAGE!! Confirm the rumor first, but don't do it here.
The buses are where they are and that's it. Stop fantasing about bus moves. For you kids out there take a moment to read some of the other threads--you might learn something. At the same time, you'll save BIG AL, David, T-Drive and myself the time we spend in correcting your crap. If you want to know what buses are where, check out the Bus Roster on T-Drive Cruiser's web site...PLEASE!!!!!
Mark
Thank You Q5, some of us here have been trying to say this for the longest. Lord knows it can be aggrivating at times, especially having a YOUNG kid call you a "Jackass." That was about the last straw for me.
Piggy backing onto Q5's comments, if you hear something, research it over and over and over until you hear or find somethat that sounds remotely factual, bring it here for confirmation. Some of us here have the inside track and can either verify or tell you its wrong or right.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches Bus Operator
www.transitalk.com
One other thing that I find is also annoying that I noticed on bustalk lately. Everybody, please think of EVERYTHING you want to say and put in into 1 post. Please stop creating 10 different posts, one right after the other, on the same subject, within a span of 15 - 30 minutes. You will save us all alot of time and make the board alot easier to read when you don't see alot of redundant posts put into different threads on the same subject by the same person.
BIG AL
Thank you so much for posting this. I was hoping that the recent bouts of posts was merely a passing hiccup.
As far as posting rumors, the advice of "USE YOUR HEAD" is some very sound advice. Ask yourself if the possiblity of what you have heard could be true given what you would know as fact. Here is a good example: knowing that NYCT is facing a shortage of buses to "make score" (meet service demands), would the transfer of close to 10% of a depots fleet to another operator possibly make sense? Also consider the source of your source of information. Have they proved to be reliable in the past? These are all things to take into account when judging the validity of what you've heard.
We were all new to this at one time or another. There surely have been and will continue to be times where one will hear something that is very unlikely; but one will learn after a bit of time to filter out what has a possibility of truth and what is highly uncertain.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.com
Very well put. I hope the offenders will take this as positive criticism so that BusTalk will return to its once loftier level of service to its participants!
I agree. I had mentioned something about that on the East New York Thread about that "Fresh Pond Depot" crap. I agree, let's be realistic and use better judgement.
Ray
Look, BIG AL and Trevor made it clear that the New Flyer Artics or ANY new buses won't be coming in until next year. Let's all be patient! Right now, all we are doing is talking about what is going to happen or what MIGHT happen. That's what makes some of us upset. Chill out...take it from me...do not ask silly or repeat questions. You will regret it in the future. Trust me!
I'm sorry, this is what I mentioned before. Thank you.
Ray
Also, if you contribute, people won't care so much if you ask stupid questions every once in awhile. This isn't some help desk where you ask what you want and you can expect an immediate answer. Contribute, and then when you say "I think...", you will probably be listened to.
I agree with you Mark but I think we need to exhibit a little more patience with the newcomers to Bus Talk. Many are young and are obviously excited about finding a forum dedicated to their hobby. Give them some time and I'm sure they'll become acclamated as to how things work here at Bus Talk.
I agree with that response Dan. That could be the main reason. I was like that to went I first came on BT back around this time a year and a half ago.
Ray
First of all I do enjoy reading both Bus and Sub Talk especially since i now live in South Florida.
Please remember the following:
In the TA they are loads of rumors most of them are false. Just because someone says something don't accept it as fact such as the Orions CNG going to Command from Gleaseon. Common sense will dictate that it is not true. Why? Because if the TA is buying additional OrionCNG's why would they give the same bus away?
Also please remember the following: Unions pay a big part of the workings of the TA . To say if a line should be in Division A or B depends on a lot of details: Jobs,Costs,Space etc.
Also remember that it easier to change a bus route than a subway route. Really the stories I read on Sub talk about rerouting the #1/9 line between Chambers Street and South Ferry to West Street are so unreal. How is the city going to pay for it? What are the benefits of such a change?
Please a little common sense can make this site a most enjoyable one to read and to participate. Lets all have a good time
Thank You
I agree Q5
Well said, Q5.
BT posters, like myself, don't mind answering the occasional question, but the foaming-at-the-mouth observations about roster transfers, new bus orders, and rumors get a bit irritating after the 15th post or so.
I'm from Boston, and I do know about some of the garages residing in New York (I even know a few names, like the Mother Clara Hale and Jackie Gleason), but BT shouldn't be just about one thing repeated ad infinitum until one of us screams stop!
As for rumors: Great Fleetwood Mac album, but not to be depended on for facts. And they evolve from something innocent to something so outrageous it's hard to believe. Best to ask someone first - there's plenty of us who might know your answer.
In Queens, ex-KB and current JAM clunker, 4216 will be scrapped. A little before X-mas it died on the Q17 at Main-Roosevelt. It was towed to Stengel and has been unable to move since. I'm not sure what "the cause of death" is. To make up for Jamaica's shortage, QV has sent JAM two more ex-KB 4100's (4175 and 4198).
Accident bus 9563 will be repaired after the lawyers go through it with a fine tooth comb.
Finally, has anyone noticed that rear advertising wraps (for "yhd realty") have now started to appear on FLA and JG RTS's?
Mark
Also on the rears of Bee-Line MCI 102-A2 Cruisers...Amazing!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Saw something I haven't seen yet, one of the new Orion V CNG's at LIB getting towed. Saw 311 heading east on Northern Blvd in tow.
Also alot LIB Orions even the new ones are missing yellow stop strips in spots. Ya know they're skimping on maintainance...
Actually, 4216 was one of the better "clunkers". It was one of the fastest buses in the depot. It used to ride very hard, but I believe even the suspension was repaired because the last time I had it, by request about 3 months ago, it rode very smooth. I know alot of operators used to request that bus also, which is why you saw it on the rode more than the other 4100 & 4200 wrecks. I'm sure this is one 1985 bus that is going to be missed, especially with what the depot got in it's place.
BIG AL
P.S. Another good "clunker" still rolling: 4218
Well, I can assure you that nobody will request 4175 or 4198. Let me know if the handfull of late slips in the take-one box needs replenishing..
Saw the same Realty rear wrap ad on LI Bus #624 this morning running on the N78.
I have to give the Jamaica maintance forces credit for keeping 4216 and the other 4200's running for so long. I believe they were in KB before being transfered to the TA depots. FP had a bunch, 4201 to 4213 (except 4204 & 4211). These came to FP as rolling wrecks. Naturally, FP maintance forces kept them that way. According to the drivers I know, they broke down frequently and were in much worse shape than the 4000's and 4100's. The 4200's were among the first 1985's FP was able to take out of their collective misery. The best one, 4213, was wrecked inside the depot I was told. Its' engine was transfered to a 1987 bus. 4212 was the last to go.
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On WMATA's website, there is a big thing about the changes to metro this year, including the new CNG buses, which will total over 160 eventually and the arrival of 21 Neoplan artics to replace the MAN's. I can't wait to see these. I guess any bad vibes between WMATA and Neoplan with the disaster of those 40 footers they had are over enough to take two dozen buses from the.
Interesting. They should get more than just enough to replace the MANs since artics would be good on a variety of routes like the even 30s and the 42.
Yeah, more than 21 would be nice. Having some artics during peak hours here in VA would be great as well. So many of the bus garages are so small that they probably couldn't hold them anyways.
The 42 goes out of Bladensburg on some runs, those should be all artics without question. I know Western can't handle artics but I don't know about the other divisions.
I was hoping WMATA would get more NABI's. Have you all seen 5212 yet in the new paint scheme?
Wayne
No, I haven't had a chance to see that. I bet it looks pretty sharp in that new scheme!
No. The only noteworthy artic sighting I've seen was today at about 7:45 or 7:50 AM, a MAN artic was heading towards 355 on Tuckerman Lane. No idea why it was there but it seemed to be out of service.
After the M7 drops off all passengers on B'Way and 14th, how it circles around to get on to 14th St going west?
Thanks.
I believe it goes to 13th St then a right onto Unversity PL and a left onto 14th St. It picks up passengers behind the M2 and M3 on University Pl and 14th St. I saw this on the map (I think). Can someone back me up on that. Thanks!
Ray
This is not the case as buses often lay up on 14th between Broadway and Univ. Pl. westbound.
Okay, I'm confused. Are you asking for the last stop or the first stop of the M7?
Ray
Neither. I'm asking for the routing between the two.
According to the official NYC Transit bus map, the bus simply turns right onto 14th from Broadway (south side of Union Square), stands on the north curb of 14th west of University Place, and then continues west on 14th to 6th Ave, where buses turn north.
This is the routing I remember from past experience...of course, it may have changed since the map was published.
This is the routing I remember from past experience...of course, it may have changed since the map was published.
It apparently must have. I was suprised when the bus did this too. I figured it might have been a temporary routing, but you rarely see a temporary routing with no notices posted that lasts for over 4 months :)
The last stop on the M7 is Broadway and 14 St. Then the bus makes a right on 13 Street and a right on University and are supposed to take their stand on University. The first stop is on University and 14 st like the m2 and m3 and then make a left onto 14 St next stop on 5 Av.
Operators are not supposed to take thier stand anywhere but on University and 13 St.
Their first stop isn't on 14th St. anymore? Why not?
Apparently there was a problem with using Union Square West, something to do with extending the park westerly or congestion due to delivery trucks.
The first stop is on 14 Street and University and then the next stop is 14St. and 5 Av.
After reading the thread on this board about WMATA's new Neoplan order, I went to the WMATA website myself to read about the changes planned for this year.
I was delighted to see just how "fan-friendly" their information was. First, it's always a good sign when a transit system is communitcating with the public about all of its goings on. Second, the fact that WMATA actually refered to railcars by their fleet numbers and buses by their manufacturers is a refreshing change from the ambiguous info supplied by some TAs.
Kudos to WMATA for providing this info straight from the source, rather than having us transit fans learn things through rumors and hearsay.
My reactions to the contents of the WMATA info:
* When are the original 1000-series Metrorail cars slated for retirement? Perhaps they are to be rebuilt?
* As far as I know, WMATA introduces a new thousand-series for railcars only when there is a manufacturer change or major model change. I noticed that they are soliciting for new 6000-series cars. Are they unhappy with the 5000s?
* It appears that only 100 Metrobuses will receive the digital camera treatment, as opposed to the entire fleet (which is what was heard here a few weeks ago.)
* Metrobus Neoplans?! AWESOME!!! I cannot -wait- until these hit the streets! (although honestly, I somehow think these would look better in the old paint scheme.) Even though the M*A*N artics are numbered 5101-5133, only about 20 or so are active, so the order size of 21 Neos will make for a one-to-one replacement. I predict the Neoplans will be numbered 5300-5320 - at least that would make sense.
* At the end of the Neoplan announcement, WMATA refers to a possible 100 additional buses. Do they mean more artics? Or just 100 more 40-foot buses?
* WMATA will continue to be a solid customer for 40-foot, standard floor buses in the future. If the Neoplan artics succeed (and I am confident that they will), I could seriously imagine WMATA going to Neoplan for all of its fleet needs - 40-foot LF, 40-foot standard, and 60-foot.
Please respond; I LOVE talking about Metrobus!!
* When are the original 1000-series Metrorail cars slated for retirement? Perhaps they are to be rebuilt?
Are you kidding me? This part should be on SubTalk but anyway, how can Metro possibly afford to retire cars considering their current ridership levels? The 5000 series cars will allow the 1000 and 2000 to be rehabilitated, extending their useful service lives.
* As far as I know, WMATA introduces a new thousand-series for railcars only when there is a manufacturer change or major
model change. I noticed that they are soliciting for new 6000-series cars. Are they unhappy with the 5000s?
The 5000s are slowly coming, 28 are in service according to the press releases, I have yet to see any since I haven't taken the green line recently. The 6000 cars are to add much needed capacity. I just wonder if they will keep going with the current numbering scheme. I did that in my fantasy DC subway system and after my 6000 series, I went to 1500, and the two next series are 5700 and 7000.
* It appears that only 100 Metrobuses will receive the digital camera treatment, as opposed to the entire fleet (which is what
was heard here a few weeks ago.)
* Metrobus Neoplans?! AWESOME!!! I cannot -wait- until these hit the streets! (although honestly, I somehow think these
would look better in the old paint scheme.) Even though the M*A*N artics are numbered 5101-5133, only about 20 or so are
active, so the order size of 21 Neos will make for a one-to-one replacement. I predict the Neoplans will be numbered
5300-5320 - at least that would make sense.
* At the end of the Neoplan announcement, WMATA refers to a possible 100 additional buses. Do they mean more artics? Or
just 100 more 40-foot buses?
* WMATA will continue to be a solid customer for 40-foot, standard floor buses in the future. If the Neoplan artics succeed
(and I am confident that they will), I could seriously imagine WMATA going to Neoplan for all of its fleet needs - 40-foot LF,
40-foot standard, and 60-foot.
* When are the original 1000-series Metrorail cars slated for retirement? Perhaps they are to be rebuilt?
Are you kidding me? This part should be on SubTalk but anyway, how can Metro possibly afford to retire cars considering their current ridership levels? The 5000 series cars will allow the 1000 and 2000 to be rehabilitated, extending their useful service lives.
* As far as I know, WMATA introduces a new thousand-series for railcars only when there is a manufacturer change or major
model change. I noticed that they are soliciting for new 6000-series cars. Are they unhappy with the 5000s?
The 5000s are slowly coming, 28 are in service according to the press releases, I have yet to see any since I haven't taken the green line recently. The 6000 cars are to add much needed capacity. I just wonder if they will keep going with the current numbering scheme. I did that in my fantasy DC subway system and after my 6000 series, I went to 1500, and the two next series are 5700 and 7000.
* It appears that only 100 Metrobuses will receive the digital camera treatment, as opposed to the entire fleet (which is what
was heard here a few weeks ago.)
IDK
* Metrobus Neoplans?! AWESOME!!! I cannot -wait- until these hit the streets! (although honestly, I somehow think these
would look better in the old paint scheme.) Even though the M*A*N artics are numbered 5101-5133, only about 20 or so are
active, so the order size of 21 Neos will make for a one-to-one replacement. I predict the Neoplans will be numbered
5300-5320 - at least that would make sense.
Are you actually trying to predict the WMATA numbering scheme? LOL
* At the end of the Neoplan announcement, WMATA refers to a possible 100 additional buses. Do they mean more artics? Or
just 100 more 40-foot buses?
40 footers is my guess
* WMATA will continue to be a solid customer for 40-foot, standard floor buses in the future. If the Neoplan artics succeed
(and I am confident that they will), I could seriously imagine WMATA going to Neoplan for all of its fleet needs - 40-foot LF,
40-foot standard, and 60-foot.
I want some diversity! A mix would be nice.
Sorry if I double posted.
I would gather that they're purchasing more 40 footers too. Of course a few more artics would be nice, as Oren was mentioning to help ease some overcrowding on a lot of these routes. The only bad thing would be to add an artic and reduce headways.
I can't wait to see the Neoplan Artics. 21 is an odd order, but, at least they're not reducing the number of artics in the fleet.
I'd love to see Neoplan 40 footers and end the domination of the Orions. NABI 40 footers would be great too. The next couple of years will be great with the New Flyer CNG's coming in, plus these other new buses. Of course, this also sounds like the end of the road for some of the Flxible Metro B's. : (
Well, we can't run on the even 30s unless it gets transferred elsewhere and since Western is three blocks from Friendship Heights, that won't happen. A few runs come from the Southern Annex but I don't know if they can handle artics.
My reccomendations for articulated routes:
30s
42
I really question the decision to run them on the S and 70s, especially the latter with the Green Line now running through DC. The J2 makes sense. Note that when I mean put artics on the route, the current headways must be maintained.
First, my kudos to WMATA as well for an informative press release -- nice to get info direct from them instead of through the rumor mill.
I agree with Oren that artics would be nice for the 30 in terms of ridership numbers, but I wonder how feasible that would really be. Between the many lane-changes necessitated on upper Wisc Ave and the double-parking, sharp turns, and bumper-to-bumper traffic in Georgetown, I think it would be a gigantic pain in the butt to be at the helm of a 60-foot vehicle, albeit articulated, during rush hour. My suspicion is that they'll stay on the routes they're on -- we're talking a 1:1 replacement for the MANs here -- probably weighted towards higher-volume suburban routes, like that Silver Spring to Shady Grove route -- forget the route number off the top of my head.
As for forty-foot Neoplans -- we've been down that road before. WMATA had a number of AN440s in the '80s, and yes, they did look handsome in the old paint scheme, but they were plagued by various problems, including hairline frame cracks and were removed from service by the early '90s, I believe. And frankly, I don't have that high an opinion of Neoplan's build quality, at least on their transit coaches (the OTR coaches are nice tho): while SEPTA's are pretty well-kept, RIPTA's AN440s here in Providence are absolute rustbuckets, with holes rusted through the sheetmetal behind the rear wheelwells. My vote for WMATA's new units? Twenty MCI D4501s, for sundry routes including the expresses to BWI and Dulles, forty 40-foot Orion VIIs, and forty 30-foot Orion Vs (or Nova RTSes, just for a change, if they're still in business at the time of the order ;-), which I think are much more useful, versatile, and comfortable than the little Orion IIs which have superceded 30-footers on some routes.
Sorry to be so long-winded . . . thoughts, guys?
Chris
The Silver Spring to Shady Grove route is the Q2. I have taken it off hours and question its need for articulated buses. I have gotten Orion Vs both times and no one stands.
Maybe if Georgetown sees the big buses, they might use them but it isn't going to happen since Western can't handle them.
The Q2, that's right, thanks. I've only taken that route once, during the late-afternoon pre-rush-hour, but rode on an American Ikarus articulated . . . it wasn't all that crowded, but it was probably enough to justify the use of the extended bus.
C
A few runs come from the Southern Annex but I don't know if they can handle artics.
There were 2 or 3 MAN Artics at Southern Annex a year ago when I was there. When I stopped back this spring the MAN's were gone and were replaced by NABI artics as the runs they were on needed lift equipped buses.
Laddie
I haven't been on 16th Street in a long time. I didn't know they were running artics on the S line. They run such frequent service on that line in the peak times.
Western is definitely too small for artics. I didn't know that Northern was large enough to handle them, Arlington is way too small here in VA. Four Mile Run should be large enough since some of the NABI's had originally been slated to run on the 16 line up and down Columbia Pike.
On a side note, tonight on the C8, a Smartmover bus was on that line decked out with all its signs and pictures on the windows.
I need to find a Saturday where I can take an adventure on the new C18 down to Waldorf and check that one out. THat and the B30 are prime candidates for OTR coaches if WMATA were to ever purchase them.
Let me know how the C18 goes if you take it -- that one really sounds interesting. I send an email to Metro last night suggesting that they buy 10 or so D4501s for airport express service (B30 and the other route to Dulles) and maybe market it as the "AirCoach" or something -- "take the stress out of flying," &c. I think there'd be a real market for that . . . the B30 is a bit of a niche market right now; transit-savvy people will take it but most folks aren't willing to struggle with their luggage all the way out to Greenbelt and then get on a transit coach for a slow ride to the airport. If Metro ran OTR airport coaches from downtown and key suburban locations, I think they'd have develop quite a rider base.
C
I know someone who took it, she complained it took too long. Now in the ads for BWI on WTOP, they are advertising the B30 bus.
They said the C18 was too long or the B30? I found the B30 to be really quick as it goes on the highway and makes no stops until it arrives at the airport. They don't travel 75 mph like the maniac cars, but they still get there in a decent time. Hey, for $2, or whatever, I wouldn't complain. Its a whole lot better than $50 for a taxi or those super shuttles that cost an arm and a leg.
The C18 diverts into several park and ride lots. Although its time consuming, its a commuter bus specifically designed to do that. Hopefully, it does well.
I'll have to try it soon. I have a friend that lives down there, so we'll meet up, otherwise there is no reason in the world to go to Waldorf.
B30. She had to take the Metro to DuPont Circle as well.
Oh ok, yeah, the subway ride on top of that can take awhile. Its cheap, though.
I dunno. It would sorta be wierd for me for WMATA to have Neoplans. When I was growing up, SEPTA and Metrobus were (and still are) my primary transit systems. They both had different buses (WMATA with Flxibles and Orions, SEPTA with Neoplans and RTSs/NABIs). I know that both WMATA and SEPTA had RTSs, but they were so different that they seemed to be different types of buses, at least when I was little. Then, WMATA got Ikarus Americans, although they are articulated and SEPTA's were 40ft long. Now, they both got New Flyer low floors. I guess the point of this post is that I think of WMATA with Flxibles, although Flxible went out of business, and SEPTA with Neoplans. Now, when WMATA gets Neoplans, although it would be pretty cool, at the same time, it would be pretty odd. I'd really like to see them with mokre Flixibles, although that won't really happen. :( But, anyway, even though I don't love Orion, I'd rather have metro be full of Orions than Neoplans. those shoudl be for SEPTA :)
In the 80's, SEPTA got its first set of NEOPLANS, then WMATA got their set of the 95xx's series NEOPLANS. When I got homesick, I went to DC to ride the NEOPLANS, because they reminded me of the Philly NEOPLANS. In '84, I moved back to Philly, and got the NEOPLAN fix I craved. However I went across the river to NJ to get my " Flx fix".
Now since '90, I've been living across the river in NJ, and get a daily ride on NJT Flxibles, and go across the river to get my fix of Flyers, NEOPLAN artics, and NABI's, (with a little of the Eldorados).
Now I go to DC to get my fill of the Flx Metro D and E with the heavier sounding Cummins engines, Not the NJT's with a glorified truck engine.
Anybody have the numbers of the buses loaned to Salt Lake City?
No but I would assume it was the lowest of the C40LFs, starting with 2301.
...was the lowest of the C40LFs, starting with 2301.
I am nearly sure the C40LFs start at 2300, not 2301. Since the Orion order of 2000, WMATA has realized how much more sense it makes to start numbers at xx00 rather than xx01, especially true for order quantities of 100. When I saw that the Orions were numbered 2000-2099 and 2100-2229, I was quite pleased. It would be quite stupid to number the C40LFs 2301-2400, thus wasting the entire 2400 series on a single bus. Hear that, SEPTA??
Maybe I am getting my info confused. I am sure Trevor said something about 2301, maybe that happened to be the first bus off the line, sort of how the MTA got D60HF 1001 before 1000.
It will be nice to see some diversity in the fleet with the New Flyers and the Neoplans. Maybe they'll order more 40 foot Neoplans for the future.
Yes, the pilot bus was 2301. But there is a 2300! However there is more than 100 buses in this order. I heard that its been hiked up to 170?!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
OK. I knew you said something about 2301 being made first. The Metro Press Release says the order is now 164 buses (located at the top of the main page).
The order from New Flyer is for 164 buses; the first batch (2300-2399) has been delivered, and will probably be put into service once the CNG fueling station at Bladensburg Division is operational. The second batch (2400-2463) will arrive later this year.
It's about time Washington D.C joined the ranks of CNG bus fleets across the country.
ILK! More environmentally damaging buses on the road. This is beginning to become sickening!
It's gonna take for someone in high ranks to realize that CNG is just a way more volitile, environmentally damaging and just down right dangerous.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Rockland Coaches B/O
* As far as I know, WMATA introduces a new thousand-series for railcars only when there is a manufacturer change or major model change. I noticed that they are soliciting for new 6000-series cars. Are they unhappy with the 5000s?
This question is probably more suited for SubTalk, but anyway, the way I read the item at the WMATA web site was that the 6000-series Metrorail cars would be used for future expansion.
* Metrobus Neoplans?! AWESOME!!! I cannot -wait- until these hit the streets! (although honestly, I somehow think these would look better in the old paint scheme.) Even though the M*A*N artics are numbered 5101-5133, only about 20 or so are active, so the order size of 21 Neos will make for a one-to-one replacement. I predict the Neoplans will be numbered 5300-5320 - at least that would make sense.
Of course that would make sense, since the 5300s have yet to be used. However, remember that this is WMATA...
Today's was not all that interesting. The only thing of note is that they are changing the destination signs for the #6 route for westbound service. They used to say:
6 ROCK SPRING SHUTTLE
They are now being changed to say:
6 ROCK SPRING
The eastbound sign remains the same:
6 WHEATON
This is because the 6 is no longer shuttling between Grosvenor and Rock Spring. All 6 trips operate every 30 minutes during rush hour and there are about 4 trips all going the full route. The 96 now operates every 20 minutes and goes from Grosvenor to Rock Spring and then Grosvenor to Montgomery Mall after about 9:30 AM weekdays only. The 96 signs are as follows:
96 MONT. MALL
96 ROCK SPRING
96 GROSVENOR
Problem: There is no bus service from Grosvenor to Montgomery Mall weekends. The only way to get from a Metro station to the mall on weekends is the J2, 35, or 38 (Saturdays only), all of which are somewhat long trips.
Current Times: The 47 operates Monday through Saturday between Rockville and Grosvenor. On Saturdays, the southern terminal is Montgomery Mall. The 96 operates from about 6:30 AM until 7:30 PM, service to the mall starts at 9:30, weekdays only. Before 9:30, service terminates at Rock Spring.
The Question: Which route, if either, should be the route to operate weekends? I vote for the 96, since it is quicker than the 47. An expansion of 47 service would mean Sunday service would need to be added. What do you all think?
I think the 47 should just be extended, so they can have the whole route operate instead of just Rockvile to Mont.Mall. This gives the Parkside residents service as well.
The Parkside people can't walk? It isn't all that far? I think Seven Locks Road could warrant Sunday service but I would run the 38 on Sundays before I ran the 47.
It would be nice to see the 38 run on weekends since there is absolutely no service in a lot of the areas it serves. There probably isnt' enough demand to have a bus run from Grosvenor to MOntgomery Mall since the 46 runs to Medical Center and connects with the J2. Its cumbersome, but its doable.
The 38 would pick up more people than the 47 would. Also, I have taken the 38 on Saturdays on several occasions, the ridership seems to be there then, perhaps maybe not at 30 minute intervals but I could see a profit from that route.
Enjoy!
* Note: I have this shot available in Desktop Wallpaper Size if Wanted, just e-mail me at tlogan@transitalk.com
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches Bus Operator
www.transitalk.com
I'm in a good mode, so I'm going to end this little RTS debate.
But to answer a question the EMT guy was pissing his pants for me to answer. I've never ridden a Classic NOR the venerable Fishbowl. How do you like that? Of course, that doesn't mean I'm not qualified to judge the bus. You see, riding the bus doesn't mean jack. If you could find out all you needed to know from riding the bus, then you everyone from Homeless Joe to Snobby Susie would be "in the know."
But, it doesn't work like that, unless you can somehow absorb bus knowledge through your butt cheeks. And if you can, I'd like to know how and when you can do this. Or is it just a power gods among men like Erie possess? Who knows?
Anyway, since I'm ending this debate, I'll let you in on a secret. I know little about the Classic, but I know alot about the RTS. Your problem was that you knew little about BOTH buses. Your knowledge of the Classic was about as good as my knowledge of it. You had neither offense nor defense to work with.
As for my attitude, yeah, I had one. That Fishbowl guy posted a very ignorant statement. Had he had some actual factual gripes about the bus, I would've repsonded more civilly. But he didn't, all he did was insult the RTS based on his own VERY LIMITED opinions and lack of knowledge of the bus. Then, you added to that and then Steve Olsen. So yeah, I got pissy with y'all, and if you don't like it, tough.
I also like it when people like Kcram3500 posts a message like "Don't waste your time with RTS_2150" when he could've just sent an e-mail to you instead. It's not like people on here will like me any less now that this has happened. I've been through three or four of these with FAR better opponents if you even want to call them that.
So, that's it.
To quote the Comic Book Store Guy.....
"Toodle-oh."
The funniest part of all this is how you say that I "insulted" the RTS. Let me let you in on something, buses do not get insulted, humans do! And instead of "insulting" Classics back, you have to resort to name calling and belittlement of humans. But, I guess that's how you were raised.
One of the strong points of Mr. Olsen:
"In addition to all that has been said about the RTS, it is not an efficient mover of passengers. The 40 foot transit fishbowl could seat 53 people if configured with maximum seats. When configured the way it was in most TA buses, the number of people seated and standing, far exceeds that of an RTS.
The RTS is an extremely heavy vehicle, and because of this, it's fuel ecomomy is not as good as a fishbowl.
I also believe that passenger flow entering and exiting the bus was better in a fishbowl (and Flxible equivalent) because the rear exit door was not as far back as it is on the advance design models. Since more people could fit in the rear of the bus, more people were inclined to use the rear door as an exit."
Of course, you completely ignored that argument.
The bottom line is that transit agencies bought advanced design buses because, as stated in another post, if they didn't, they would not get Federal funding. And they picked the RTS because they were the lowest bidder at the time of the purchase. Fishbowls and Classics were purchased because agencies actually WANTED them. The RTS, and I think I can speak for most of us when I say this, seems like a bus that was FORCED upon us, while the New Looks and Classics were buses that agencies actually SOUGHT AFTER!
Ahhh, opinions are like assholes....
Oh, and by the way, the RTS WAS NOT the lowest bidder. Many TAs (Houston especially) sought not to buy anymore RTS because they were too expensive. But, I guess you were too ignorant for the argument. Once again, the simple task of seperating fact (what I just stated) from opinion (the quote from Mr. Olsen) escapes you.
But, I've already beaten you so the point is moot.
Oh, and that's the other thing. This "beaten you" stuff. Even if you disagreed with evrything that I said, even if every word I printed was a pack of lies, it seems that you are obsessed with "WINNING AND LOSING". This is a message board where people state both facts and opinions, and whether you agree with the opinions or not, or whether the facts are 100% correct or not, that should not produce a winning or losing outcome. If you find that somebody's "facts" are incorrect, then simply correct the person like a civilized human being. Acting like a pompous "Know It All" will get you nowhere. And if you look at my original post prior to your "running off the mouth" tirades, you will notice I did not attack anybody PERSONALLY, execept your beloved RTS. I do hope that you seek psychaitric care shortly to control your anger, and some "ettiquite" lessons on how to communicate with people in a civilized fashion.
I know little about the Classic, but I know alot about the RTS.
You're not in much of a place to judge something when you have unequal knowledge about it.
Is that supposed to stop me or something. And like you have alot of room to talk yourself. But that's another subject altogether.
Is that supposed to stop me or something.
No, it's supposed to make a point. BTW--I'm a stickler for correct puncuation...
And like you have alot of room to talk yourself.
For what I said, yes, I do. I have enough common sense not to talk about something when I don't know what I'm talking about.
But that's another subject altogether.
Actually, since you were replying directly to what I said about what I said, it's the same subject.
You picked such a cute title for this thread, "Let Me End This" as if you were planning to agree to disagree. But then, you proceded to elongate this even further by continuing to challenge everybody. Well, that is no way to end anything, so it continues. Let's go back in time to this quote, shall we...?
I've never ridden a Classic NOR the venerable Fishbowl. How do you like that? Of course, that doesn't mean I'm not qualified to judge the bus...
Yes it does. I hate to come off as blunt, but just as an eligable voter who did not vote in the election voids any complaint regarding the outcome of the election, you void your opinion by the simple fact that you never rode it. It's a "you can talk but nobody takes you seriously" type of deal. How can you critique something you have never expirienced on a first hand level? You pride yourself on being such an expert bus critic. Well, what movie reviewer doesn't watch the movie they are critquing? What restraunt critic, doens't eat the food from the restruant his review is about? Statistics will only get you so far. You have to back up what you are saying with expirience. For instance, if every Classic you ever rode didn't impress you and all the drivers you talked to hated them, that would be a vaild reason for not liking the bus. But that is not the case.
I mean, how seriously would I be taken if I went to a video store, only rented two videos, watched them and said "these are the two greatest video's in the entire store. No other video in this store can compare to these two, even though I haven't watched any of them. The rest all suck." I would be laughed at. But, that's what you do here, but you laugh at us. Well dude, we are all laughing right back at ya!
Your knowledge of the Classic was about as good as my knowledge of it. You had neither offense nor defense to work with.
Since I have rode many miles in the Classic, talked to hundreds of operators who have drove the Classic, and talked to mechanics who have worked on the Classic day in and day out, I feel that I DO in fact know quite a bit about this bus and I'm just wondering since none of the above apply to you, how you became so educated about this bus. Where did you get your Classic knowledge? I know exactly where... from where the sun don't shine. You've never even seen a good picture of one based on the way you describe it.
And as far as the RTS. How much do you really know? All you've shown us is that it comes with a bunch of options that a Classic, Orion, Gillig, NABI, LFS, and countless other buses come with. Oh, and you don't even have specific production numbers which other posters have graciously supplied which contradict you and prove that the RTS production never has or never will exceed the Fishbowl. You can't get your dates straight, and you compare apples to oranges. You have flimsy excuses when you do get called on something and you are no bus fan. A bus fan is open minded and enjoy's a variety of buses and rides a variety of buses and systems. You are just obsessed with the RTS. Although I like the Classic, I like various other types of buses too. Stop being so one dimentional.
Let me give you some serious advice... If you want to become a true bus fan and have your opinions taken seriously around here, plan a trip to a different city every once in a while and ride different systems and different types of equipment for a few days. Talk to those drivers and listen what they think and their expiriences. Their likes, dislikes, complaints. Just expirience something new. You will learn something and you would have a good time in the process. It will make you more cultured and a little less one-sided when it comes to buses. Being a bus fan is work. Start doing your fieldwork.
I love it when someone is so blind to see that they are not winning! Oh, and it's EMTA not EMT... I'm not a paramedic... Never claimed to be. No surprise, just another inaccuracy... LOL
That's all for now... That is until your next sad, pathetic attempt to prove me wrong. Laterz ;)
I couldn't catch the number but I saw the flag on the rear of the refurbished Metro-B at Freindship Heights at 7:20 this morning. It was on either the even 30s or the N2.
are these flags actual flags or just the little decals?
They are the size of a rear advertisement, as that's where they are placed. Actually, they could be slightly larger since it goes from the left tail light, to the right ones. I saw one on a Metro-D the other day, but I was too far away to catch the number, it was at Seven Corners in VA.
Today I was informed someone has plans to start a massive posting of non bus related messages intended to cause a distruption to this message board.
Just thought you might be interested as this is truly a great site and need not be tarnished by this sort of thing.
Blue
On Thursday evening, I'm at Pelham Bay getting off the Bx14 and looking for a bus to Bay Plaza. With no Bx12 in sight, I make a bee-line for the QBx1 that's doing the 1-2-3-4 shuttle, the next best thing. Its an RTS, #354. And although it was built in December of '93 (yes, I peeked at the manufacturer's plate), it looked newer with its vandal resistant seats. Now, getting off the bus at Baychester and Bartow, I ask myself "was the vandal-resistant material just recently installed, or did they come with the bus when DOT made the order with TMC?" If the latter is true, then why is it that there are buses rolling around town, not with MTA colors, that had this advancement three to five years before the blue & white caught on, and only then with a set of buses that have issues?
Indeed a few of the TMC RTS's at Queens Surface have "shag seats" and were installed from new.
Observe carefully and you'll see that the material on the TMC RTS's are a bit different than those on various NYCT and NYCDOT local Orion CNG coaches.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.com
You definitly have a point there.
When the Marine Pkwy/Gil Hodges Bridge is closed for construction, how does it affect the Q35 service patterns?(destination,frequency, etc...)
You may want to call Green Bus Lines and/or NYCDOT for a definite answer to that question. It is safe to guess, however, that the Q35 is going to have massive disruptions during construction, depending on directions.
I can't tell you the exact routing, but I do know that during the closing of the Marine Pkwy. Bridge, the Q35 operates over the Cross Bay Bridge to get to/from Rockaway Park. I've witness this on many an occasion while driving on the bridge.
They are closing the entire bridge for work???? From a transporation standpoint, that's bad.. From a public safety standpoint, that's worse. Hopefully there will not be another catastrophic event in the Rockaways ever again along the lines of Flight 587 because you can only pull so many of your emergency resources from Queens.
The bridge is already being worked on. The closures are a 1-night type of thing from 12-5am. This happens when the crews need to occupy 1or 2 of the traffic lanes, or they do tests on the vertical lift. It is rarely closed (with the exception of the bridge rising) during daylight hours!
Thanks for the clarification.
Back when I was with the NYC High School Marching Band (1996-1997) I remember going to a parade in Brooklyn (Norweign Parade on May 18th 1997). My band instructor rented a couple of Lafayette and Greenville IBOA buses (Grumman Flxible 870 models). Buses #170 and #236 had the same sound as the NJT Flxible Metro-B buses (3000-3280, 3500-3605). No cushion seats EXCEPT for the seats around the bus driver ( the first three seats on either side). We used those buses a lot during that time but now they are scrapped or been scrapped.
My question is this:
Does the IBOA bus companies still rent out buses to groups or in this case, school bands?
Ray
P.S. This is not a repeat question. Although I do appreciate being on BT. I also think that we were the only group from NYC to rent from IBOA. In NJ, I do not know.
A new section of QvDepot.Com will be detailing the New York City red-light camera locations, and the bus routes that travel along these affected streets.
If you'd like to help, please send an email to qvdepot@qvdepot.com with the location of the red light camera. Include the direction of travel, intersection or cross-street, and the bus route(s) affected (if applicable).
Current list of cameras are located at http://www.qvdepot.com/cams.txt, which will be converted to an .html file and included in the main menu once completed. Your updates will be reflected within this file.
If you'd rather not send email, please post the information here at BusTalk.
Thanks for any help.
When does the camera take the photo? I've heard down here in Fairfax, they go off on the yellow, which I think is a little unfair, but say the bus stop is right at the crosswalk, and you are just accelerating through on the green then all of a sudden as the first half of the bus has cleared, it changes and the *snap* there goes the photo?
In NYC cameras and Wash DC cameras seem to operate alike. In NYC when the camera is triggered it takes 2 photos. One show the vehicle passing the crosswalk and the second shows the vehicle in the intersection of course they also show the traffic signal displaying red. I've heard that in NYC if your vehicle is not in the second photo you don't get the ticket because it means you didn't proceed through the intersection - but I don't know how true this is. I've gotten one in NYC and one in DC and for anyone with doubts - it works well. You can see the license plate clearly. I was lucky to get out of the DC ticket. Everyone hates to get tickets of course (especially moving violations). However, if you're going to get a red-light ticket this is probably the best one as the ticket is issued against the registration of you vehicle - therefore you don't get the points on your license, higher insurance, beatdown by the cop etc.
Wayne
There are two lights on my way to work that I pass, one in each direction that I know have a camera. I just hold my breath every time when I approach because if I'm right at the line and the light changes, there is no way I'm going to be able to stop, so I end up speeding up slightly at the light just to make sure I'm in the clear. The other day, I think I narrowly missed it as it was that morning of the ice storm and it was turning yellow just as I approached it, but I had to go through the light because the guy behind me would have nailed me. It turned red as I was under the light, so I think I'm ok. I don't like these cameras at all.
>>> I just hold my breath every time when I approach because if I'm right at the line and the light changes, there is no way I'm going to be able to stop <<<
This is hard to believe in any place that has the three color signals. The yellow is supposed to come on early enough for anyone too close to the intersection to safely stop while traveling at the speed limit to pass through before the light turns red. The only ones who should have to worry are those who consider a yellow light as a signal to accelerate no matter how far back from the intersection they are.
Tom
Only because I've heard that the camera will sometimes go off on a yellow. If I have a car directly behind me and the light turns yellow as I'm approaching the line, I'm going through. Maybe they should just put up spike strips when the light turns yellow.
>>> I've heard that the camera will sometimes go off on a yellow <<<
If the camera goes off on yellow, it proves nothing since there is no violation at that time. You seem to think the camera is some kind of God like device which determines all by itself who must pay a ticket. It isn't, and no tickets would be valid at an intersection where the camera was taking pictures on the yellow light since that would be clear evidence that the camera was malfunctioning.
Tom
I don't think anything is a "God like" device. I am stating what I've heard and I don't want to have to pay for something like that. I think all red light cameras are just a money making ploy.
I agree! I think these cameras are just another way to shake down motorists.
Wayne
Red light running here in Brooklyn is out of hand. The use of red light cameras is a good way to increase safety. People who run red lights should pay a price. Reckless driving drives up insurance costs for all motorists
A recent drive down Utica Avenue was scary. Motorist ran red lights at nearly every intersection I passed. Sometimes they ran the light 20 seconds after it turned red
In addition it is not practical to man intersections with police officers.
I know, too, that they've helped in lowering accidents. However, like everything else, it is flawed. It seems like it would be easy to just go to the magistrate and say you weren't driving the vehicle if they don't take a picture of the driver. Also, here in DC, there have been cases of the light going to red without a yellow, things like that which cause people to belive its just a money making ploy. I'm ready to take a baseball bat to the one camera I have a problem with.
Wait, not yet my friend. Give it time. On Queens Blvd, they got those birdhouse cameras and my father ran the light.....he got a nice pic of the car plus a bill. Now he's driving with caution so give it time. Besides, I think that Queens Blvd is A LITTLE BIT SAFER then it was about two years ago.
At least in New York, it doesn't matter who was driving the vehicle. If the vehicle is registered in your name, you're responsible. If you don't want to get tickets for people who run red lights, don't lend your car to people who run red lights.
I definitely don't let anybody drive my car. At least it seems NYC doesn't have a problem making duplicate licence plates like the brains at the DC DMV did recently. There was a story in the paper down here about someone that kept getting these notices about unpaid tickets from running red lights, but it turned out that someone else had the same plates, issued by DC, and this person kept getting caught on camera. It was believed that hundreds of plates were duplicated due to a computer glitch. Our tax money at work. : )
I, like the next person do not enjoy paying tickets, but (again) one thing I like about the NYC red light cameras is that it's issued against the vehicles registration - which means no points/insurance increase. I understand the importance of safe roads, but I think they're being used to generate revenue.
Wayne
The point of the cameras is to get people out of the habit of running red lights -- not only where they see a cop, not only where they see a sign, but everywhere. An automatic fine for everyone who runs the light at select (but unannounced) intersections is a good deterrent.
Points can't be issued since the cameras don't know who's driving the car. If I lend you my car and you run a red light, I can ask you for $50 to pay the ticket but I can't transfer two points to your license.
>>> The use of red light cameras is a good way to increase safety. <<<
They have been effective in Southern California. When they were purchased (at some astronomical cost per unit) they were placed at intersections where there had been a high incidence of red light running with the expectation that they would pay for themselves from the tickets generated. Shortly after they were installed there was an article in the newspaper about how they might have to discontinue some of the cameras and return them to the vendor because the number of people running the red lights at those intersections had dropped so much that they could not pay for the cameras.
As time goes by drivers are less aware of the cameras and the number of tickets has risen, but there are less drivers running red lights than there were before the cameras were installed.
Tom
Nor do I. I particularly don't approve of the way they are administered, at least in D.C.: they're installed and operated by a private contractor (Lockheed Martin), which gets a hefty cut of each ticket. I think they're just a revenue-generating device for the D.C. government, and as you alluded to, may actually impact safety as people make panic stops on yellow lights. Fortunately, I haven't been nabbed yet.
I've seen special license-plate covers advertised in Car and Driver that purport to foil photo-radar devices on highways by obscuring the plate when viewed from a side angle. Now if only they'd do the same thing for red-light camera angles . . .
C
To be specific, the red light camera goes off .75 of 1 second AFTER the light turns red, if memory serves me right. This is designed to catch anybody passing the red light after the light is red and before they entered the intersection. A way you can observe this more carefully, is by watching the thin strip sensors embedded in the roadway around the intersection. You should see two sets. One set will be right before the intersection and the other in the middle of the intersection. If your car is already past the first set, and the light turns red, you are safe. The camera will not go off. If the light turns red before you pass the first set, then the first set initializes the system which sets off the first picture, then snaps the second picture as you pass over the second set of sensors.
I hope this clears up the confusion of how the system works in NYC, for anybody who is worried about getting a gift in the mail from one of these electronic cops.
BIG AL
Thanks, Al! I'll have to see if its like that here, too. I like the idea of covering up the licence plates, too!! LOL
I find these things more of a menace than a help. Just like anything, there are benefits, but I've seen some crazy braking by people when the light changes.
>>> if you're going to get a red-light ticket this is probably the best one as the ticket is issued against the registration of you vehicle - therefore you don't get the points on your license, higher insurance, <<<
That is not the way they work here. The picture of the driver is also recognizable. The registered owner is sent the ticket (which definitely is a moving violation with points), but if the registered owner is an 80 year old man, and the driver in the picture is a teenaged girl, the ticket will be dismissed if disputed. It is possible to contest the identification of the driver but when an owner who was driving gets to see the picture he immediately recognizes himself, and figures that everyone else will be able to recognize him and therefore does not contest the ticket. Pretty soon it will become fashionable to wear a ski mask while driving. :-)
Tom
The cameras in NYC and DC photograph the rear of the vehicle - therefore the authorities wouldn't get a picture of the driver.
Wayne
There is one at Webster Av/Gun Hill Rd facing north & other is Pelham Parkway/Boston Road facing north.
Peace
David J.
MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
There's another camera on Queens Blvd. Now - I forget the exact intersection, but it's probably about 2-3 blocks east of Continental Ave. and if IIRC the camera is located on the center island the separates the Westbound and Eastbound main road, and it photographs eastbound traffic on the main road.
Wayne
2 on Queens Blvd were missed:
1. EB Queens Blvd Express Lane at Ascan Ave.
2. WB Queens Blvd at Roosevelt Ave/49 St.
#274 Q60
Northern Blvd and Douglaston pkwy. Camera is recently replaced with a a smaller one.
Three locations in Bklyn:
Linden Blvd and Pennsylvania Ave.
Howard/ENY/Pitkin Avs intersection.
Linden Blvd and Bedford Ave.
Everyone, thanks for your help. I need to know the street the camera is actually on, and the direction of the camera. As in AEM's description. If there's a bus that crosses the light, please detail.
Thanks again.
The text file has been updated and moved to http://www.qvdepot.com/cams.html. Keep sending your info!
Jewel Ave & Park Dr East, not sure which direction(s), on QSC's Q65A & QM4.
Horace Harding Expy & College Point Blvd, definitely westbound (Q88), possibly other directions (could affect Q58 & X51).
Park Drive east and Jewel appears to be for northbound Park Drive East. It's a short light and a fair amount of traffic so it's probably a moneymaker.
This one is a rather newer model of camera that actually hangs over the lanes (similar to a traffic light). There seem to be what looks like either 3 lights or possibly even camera lenses at the end of the arm. It is placed about 8-10 feet south of the southeast corner, so it may not be multi-directional. I think a camera of this type was also placed at QB and Ascan replacing the original model of camera that was one of the original installations when the program started.
The same over-hanging camera was recently installed at Francis Lewis and Union Turnpike. Thanks again to all.
Ocean Parkway at Church has the new type of camera. I believe the housing for the old one is still present.
i tried applying for Bus operators test coming this april i believe. I did hear from some operators that they were waiving the 3 year thing. Anyways i hear they did not from my dad who is a B/O at QV. Anyways i am rescheduling my road test next week. Anyways i figure i will wait around till the next test altho that probably will not be till 2005 or so. Anyways, i hope Casey Stengel will keep their Orion Vs by then. I always wanted to operate one of those. Anyways my dad is teaching me to drive a car because i figure if he can operate a 40 foot RTS on the Q88, he knows how to drive. LOL anyways he tells me MTA wants their operators to scan their mirrors every 3-5 seconds. I have been Driving a SUV which is pretty big myself, and i try scannin it every 3-5 seconds. does that help u guys who operate buses? I try it, and it works but i never drove the car with passengers other than family. So how do u guys remember to do it with all those distractions?
Are your dad's initials "P.R."?
The mirror adjustments on your personal vehicle are not the same as on the bus. The right side mirror, for example, isn't focused on traffic, but rather the right rear tire as it makes contact with the ground. This is so you can judge your "pivot point" while making turns. If you adjust that mirror to anything other than your right rear tire, you will hit a pole, kill a pedestrian, or anything else involving turns.
Most passengers aren't aware of this adjustment, and is one reason why a bus will pull away from a bus stop as you approach- simply, unless we strech outward and downward, we cannot see you coming, although you may think we can.
Just another example for our resident advocate seeking to inform passengers and such.
LOL. No one has made that complaint yet. For some reason down here, a driver almost always sees you coming from behind whereas in NYC, you are probably out of luck.
Now I'm wondering: how come sometimes bus drivers do see you coming without out and downing?
It's possible that they've adjusted the inside rear-view mirror to the right side windows, where it's possible to see intending passengers (to a point). It's also possible to see pedestrians via the small convex mirror on the right side mirror, but they must be relatively close to the bus, and no further than a few feet adjacent.
Actually my Dad is R.R. lol
Come to puerto rico and see that in action. but sometimes u forget about that or the space is to small to turn and you go on trhe sidewalk when turning. I on the otherhjand am not afraid of the driver when that happens because many of the drivers are friends or they see me a lot
Run 23 on the Bx28 had this bus today(one of several runs i would imagine). Just heard one of the SLDs on the line talk about it on the radio.
So i would think that the 'elevated structure' rule either isn't being applied or it just flat out does not exist.
BTW - if anyone cares - 517 working on the Q46 the other night.
Did that bus fell off when you saw it? What times for Run 23 on Bx28 would have that bus?
As for #517. Idk why it's doing @ QV BUT I know #519 and #521 is @ Queens Village Depot
Fell off where?? huh?? what are you talking about??? and where does it say i saw it??
Opps! I missunderstand your 1st Message. Sorry!
Then again. What are the times for Run 23 on Bx28?
Orion Low Floor CNG #7560's height is only about under 11" & same go to New Flyer Low Floor C40. They can go under any elevated depend what elevated height.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT
Yes, I will put them on my website...maybe...
But in the meantime...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Commemoration in Transit, a look at how transit properties publically commemorated the events of September 11, is now open. This is a slideshow showing how authorities commemorated those who lost their lives in the national tradgedy. An example of such a commemoration would be the displaying "IN COMMEMORATION" message on the information signs on the DC Metro on September 14.
To see Commemoration in Transit, click here or point your browsers to http://www.geocities.com/otpcommemoration/ (the link will work even though Geocities doesn't allow remote loading, I have my ways). Links from the rest of my site, www.orenstransitpage.com, will be available within the hour if all goes well. I stongly advise your using Internet Explorer to view these and all the other pages on my site.
If you have a photo you wish to contribute, questions, or comments, please e-mail oren@orenstransitpage.com. You may also use one of the customer service buttons located throughout the site.
If traffic is heavy, additional servers will be added.
Sincerely,
Oren H.
Webmaster of Oren's Transit Page
http://www.orenstransitpage.com/
Can't access anything on web page posted.
If you got the data transfer limit message, there isn't anything to solve that other than waiting. The site will return within one hour.
Click here to try again.
On top on the Bee Line, NJ Transit and New WMATA order, Baltimore MTA has jumped on the bandwagon and has order something of 200 buses, mixed high floor and low floor 40 footers.
Neoplan is getting hot!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
LESSON TO BE LEARNED....
Don't let Trevor know any good juice on an AIM session, or he'll spill the beans before you get a chance to.
Hmm, I guess I know who I'm NOT telling, when the first of those babies arrives! pfffffbt!!!!!!
:-P
Yeah RIIIIIIGGHHHHHHHTTTT! If you don't know, I know who to ask!
Trevor always has many secret weapons!!!!!!! Never under estimate TLJ!
Regards,
Trevor
just remember nyct will never jump on that bandwagon for reasons ive detailed before.
Not so fast.............If the TA gets into a bind and has abosolutely no choice, they will. Never ever ever RULE out a manufacture. Especially when the usual suspects (Orion) is not pumping out a quality product.
The MTA will screw the buy NY rule and go elsewhere.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
I know MTA would order MORE Artics soon. I hopeing they get AN460's and Neoplan AN440 Low Floors instead of Orion7 Junkeys.
its not the buy ny rule that is keeping them from buying neoplans.
Oh Yes It Is. If it really came down to it and the Orion product just sinks (which we know it will), NYCT will buy from someone else. That political garb will go out the window so fast.
But as of right now, Its Buy NY or Buy Nothing!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Pierce Transit's Orion 1's and V's are holding up really well. It will be a shame when they retire the orion 1's prematurely.
youd be surprised. you remember nyct tried their products. when it was found out they built their product in boulder colorado nyct ran from them like a bat out of hell for political reasons.
How ironic, Baltimore MTA , NJT, and WMATA are getting Neoplans, and we here in Philly are retiring ours. I hope that SEPTA remembers how reliable they were and orders more new NEOPLANS in the future, perhaps after we get all of the Flyers in. SEPTA lost the "Most NEOPLANs" title to LACMTA and now the only new NEOPLANS are the artics.
I'm actually quite surprised at Neoplan's redemption in the eyes of WMATA brass . . . I thought the piece-a-shit lot of AN440s we had in the '80s were ample grounds for a permanent blacklisting of the manufacturer, at least as far as folks in the Jackson Graham Building were concerned.
Why have SEPTA's Neoplans held up so well? I'm guessing the difference is climate, vintage, and maintenance, but the RIPTA AN440s in Providence are basically falling apart rolling . . . significant body rust, noisy engines belching black smoke, etc. Yikes!
Cheers,
Chris
But see just like every other bus in the industry, all it takes is time to improve upon a product, now Neoplan puts out stainless steel frame buses, which last WAY longer than thier earlier counterparts that was built with tubular construction.
So now Neoplans will last WAY longer in the east coast climates.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
Is the old NeoPlan Tubular steel construcion similer to the kind Newflyer uses to build their buses? Bye Bye NewFlyers.
Why have SEPTA's Neoplans held up so well? I'm guessing the difference is climate, vintage, and maintenance, but the RIPTA AN440s in Providence are basically falling apart rolling . . . significant body rust, noisy engines belching black smoke, etc. Yikes!
Dunno about vintage, but the other two are good guesses. Two things that absolutely amaze me about RIPTA's fleet are 1) the number of 1998 and newer buses with engine covers that won't stay shut, and 2) the fact that the '92 TMCs are apparently being scrapped already.
BTW, also on the scrap line are ex-NYCT 4186 and 4386, after less than a year in RIPTA service.
Didn't realise that the '92 TMCs were on their way to the scrap heap already. Were they purchased with federal funds? Doesn't RIPTA incur some sort of penalty if federal buses are scrapped with less than 12 years of service?
I think RTS engine covers are simply poorly designed. WMATA in DC had a fair number of GMC RTS-04s (virtually all scrapped in 2000), and in any given sample of four buses, three would have the the stupid doors open. Strangest thing . . .
I took Orion V 0103 to and from the Wal-Mart in Cranston today on the 19 route, since I had no classes today; also saw its sister units 0104 and 0119. Nice trip, although we were sliding into curbs at every stop in the rainy slush.
Chris
Didn't realise that the '92 TMCs were on their way to the scrap heap already. Were they purchased with federal funds? Doesn't RIPTA incur some sort of penalty if federal buses are scrapped with less than 12 years of service?
I don't have the foggiest idea, but 14 of 'em were sitting in the yard with "OOS" painted on the windshield and various parts removed. Actually, I may stand corrected; the 2001-2 TIP allocates funding for the remanufacture of the '92s.
I think RTS engine covers are simply poorly designed. WMATA in DC had a fair number of GMC RTS-04s (virtually all scrapped in 2000), and in any given sample of four buses, three would have the the stupid doors open. Strangest thing
Gaping engine doors are excusable on '79s, not on 2000s :). RIPTA's Neoplans have had the same problem for about ten years, too.
They would have been scrap sooner if they were still running for the TA.
The RIPTA Neoplans were built in 1988. Plus, the winters are probably a little harsher in Providence than they are in Philadelphia.
and new york, either the city lines nor the privates arent getting them. As the WWF Star Hurricane would say, "What's up with that ?"
HALLELUJAH!
When I saw the bid for up to 500 buses from MdMTA, I had a gut feeling that NEOPLAN would nab the order.
Many people are wondering "What's with all these NEOPLAN orders when NEOPLAN makes crappy buses?" A few things: Yes, it's true that NEOPLAN turned out some rather shoddy products in the early and mid 1980s. Also, what I don't understand is NEOPLAN's generally bad rep on the East Coast until very recently. EVERY bus manufacturer has had problems on some order or another, but it used to seem like if one transit property had a minor problem with a NEOPLAN, then the whole transit industry would refrain from ordering NEOPLAN buses. Holy cry. At least now, transit properties are seeing that a lot can change over the course of 15 years. As Trevor said, NEOPLAN has much improved their product in recent years. It is nice to see that transit systems on the EC are finally recognizing that.
I think that NEOPLAN's popularity will only continue to grow, primarily because NEOPLAN is flexible! (aah! It's hard to spell flexible the right way after talking about buses for so long!) Take a competitor, oh let's pick on Gillig. Gillig's low floor bus, the Advantage, offers the customer very few options: a choice of four powertrains and transom vs full-sliding windows. That's it. NEOPLAN, on the other hand, offers a multitude of options. Different door configurations, roof-mounted a/c or rear-mounted a/c, weird and new powertrain combos (eg the DDC Series 60 in the Beeline artics), different taillight arrangements, the list goes on. Also, NEOPLAN has had the low-floor bus nailed since 1989 - and the fact that they are continuing to offer standard-floor buses is very nice for many TAs.
I could go on praising NEOPLAN, but now, I can rest assured that NEOPLAN buses will finally have their due chance to prove themselves on the East Coast. Remember, these are not the questionable buses of the mid 80s; these are quality, thoughtfully-designed products that I am sure will succeed. In a few years, I would not be terribly surprised if NYCT has NEOPLANs on order.
At last some one has a good word to say about Neoplan. Once something like a bus gets a bad reputation it stick's with it for ever.
Neoplan have come on leaps and bound's in recent years. In fact in Europe, both transit bus and coach version's from this builder have a great reputation.
They are making inroads into the HONG KONG market and that is just as tough and just as hot as the US for buses to work.
With the shortage of US home bus builders your MTA's have to get their fleets from somewhere. I think the days of US built buses for the US market are over.
Well we transit lovers in Philly has proved everybody wrong about the quality of the NEOPLAN buses. We've been using these buses since 1982, and they have been instrumental in keeping SEPTA reasonably on track since. Our highly standardized fleet of these buses provided stability and a lower cost of operation. I hope that the NABI's and the NEW FLYERS can give us the reliable service the NEOPLANS gave us.
I wouldn't count on the NABIs, but so far, the New Flyers seemingly have held up well. When the NABIs first arrived in 1996, there were times when about 25% of that fleet was out of service. The Flyers, on the other hand, seemingly have held up well for the first few months of service. I didn't hear much about how well they held up after this weekend's snow storm, but so far so good, save for a couple of minor accidents (5471 was out of service after a minor accident at 12 & Market Sts in Center City, while 5412 has a minor fuel leak problem at Germantown & Chelten).
new flyer braking system active when the wheels is about to spin out in ice,and snow.
I surprise that Baltmore is getting Neoplans. Now I starting to see more AN460's when I in New Rochelle.
Let's not forget the MBTA's order from Neoplan (44 60-ft low floor artics from Neoplan USA and 32 dual-mode artics from Neoplan Germany).
Really? When's that due for delivery? I'm really intrigued by the thought of Neoplans in MBTA colors . . .
C
The MBTA Neoplan fleet is due in 2003. According to Brian Colby's MBTA web site, the CNG artics will be used on the 39/Arborway-Back Bay and SilverLine routes. The dual-modes would be used on the SilverLine as well.
Great; thanks for the info! I'll look forward to their delivery. Is this the death knell for the existing fleet of trackless trolleys (the AM General lookalikes)?
C
Thanks for the mention, ctrabs74!
I think they will also use the Neoplan artics on the denser routes. I was looking at Shawn Bennear's site from Pittsburgh - if it's any indication of the 44 the (T)'s getting, they look pretty good!
Anyone see "Flixible"? He hasnt been around for over 2 weeks. I know when an emergency arose i was not around online-anoyne hear word?
I don't think he has posted on the Yahoo A1 Model Club either. He has two e-mail addresses that I know of--
1 - Fredman176 @ AOL.COM
2 - StarCityCustoms @ AOL.COM.
Fred is also active in a bus museum. I think its called something like the Commonwealth Bus Museum. Perhaps a search will yield the museum's website and you can e-mail the webmaster and inquire.
Simon, I see that you're with AOL. If you send him an e-mail, then you can check the status later to see if he's read it if you haven't gotten a reply
Kindly report back and let us all know how Fred is doing.
I sent him an e-mail a few days ago and it occurred to me as I sent it he hadn't posted for ages. No reply as of yet though. I do hope all is well.
someone heard from him and sent me email. apparently, he had some sort of emergency and wont be around until july at the earliest.
Wow; hope he's OK. He'd been conspicuously absent the last couple weeks . . . we'll miss his cheerful posts and look forward to his imminent return.
C
I too received the same e-mail from someone who must be Fred's friend and is handling his mail.
Let's hope and pray that whatever his emergency is that it is a short one and he overcomes it quickly.
Ok-2 points to make.
1-When will the X29 return to Broadway fully during evening rush hour? I see that is open and that some expres buses are operting on Broadway past Canal Street-the detour via Houston and Allen Street takes 20 minutes extra.
2-The reason MCI Classics didnt come to nY wa this: Back in 1989, MCI Classics were offered to the MTA, But they were made by the same company that made the RTS at the time. MTA didnt want to compete with the same company for 2 different models.(it's all listed in a daily news article from September of 1989).
B1-#9101-NOVABUS Run 008
B64-#9317-NOVBUS run 008
X29-#2173-MCI Run 003
The X29 (and X27 and X28) will return to lower Broadway (and Church Street in the other direction) when The Powers That Be determine that doing so would be more efficient than the current diversion routing via Water Street. SOME of the Staten Island express routes have returned to their normal Manhattan routings, but the results have been mixed at best.
David
Let me get this straight: you're saying that something will happen when someone that has a say decides that it should? That seems par for the course.
Exactly. It will happen when someone with the authority to make it happen, makes it happen, and not before.
David
most staten island buses have returned to bway. my wife rides almost every day and states there are no problems other than passing the huge gravesite on church st everyday. some buses on the x1 still divert at houston and pick up on water st along the x8 route. an operator who does such says she hates the diversion.
I know that returning to the normal routing is something the Brooklyn Division people want to do fairly quickly -- I've talked with them about it. I also know that, at least over the first few days of "normal" Staten Island express operation, there were times when extreme congestion was encountered because there were trucks lined up to either take away debris or deliver materials to the ex-World Trade Center worksite. Perhaps the situation has eased somewhat, which bodes well for the Brooklyn expresses.
I haven't kept up with the Manhattan end of things -- have the Manhattan local buses returned to Broadway/Church Street?
David
that would be m6 and 7. ill have to check since i am now retired.
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
How old is Roosevelt Is. Op. Corp? I've never heard of it.
Is was created in the Early 1970's to Place development on Then Welfare Or Blackwells Island Now FD Roosevelt Island Manhattan. They operate shuttle buses along Main St. (There Are Only 2 Streets On The Island) and also operate the Roosevelt Island Tramway.
Thank you.
ive seen this-it is from Roosevelt Island. The garage is kinda small. have been to it. mostly models like the above one.
Any time I see a picture of a bus in which the predominant color is not white, it is like a breath of fresh air!
This bus looks very similar to the buses that Caravan Transport ran at LAG & JFK airports. Wonder if these are CT retreads or were they bought new from the manufacturer.
They were purchased new in the early 90's. I could be wrong, but I thought those Caravan D40LF's had the DD 6V92 engine. I do remember that those that were being used at EWR did indeed have the DD 6V92.
Wayne
Roosevelt Island Operating Corp purchased 5 New Flyer D40LFs in 1994, fleet numbers 1, 2, 3, 6, and 8. The pictured bus is s/n RU015141. I would suspect that the Roosevelt Island buses have a DDC 50 engine.
GBL MCI Classics have been getting a Rear Wrap Ads in the backend of those buses. Those ads are for yhd foxtons. So far I saw #701,#702,#705,and #715 with that Rear Wrap Ad
When was this? Are there any other buses that "got cut"?
bm 10 and the bm 15 were run by apple buses which went out about 8 years ago. bm 10 ran on third avenue in bklyn and the bm15 was on bay ridge parkway and 65 th street.
on cleanairbus' web page, there is a BM-15 (command bus), whoise sign reads "OCEAN PKY, and AVENUE Z"
Coach 9735
Location: Lexington and Gay Streets - Baltimore, Maryland
City Hall lit up Purple in celebration and support of the Ravens in the NFL Playoffs
I finally caught a re-powered bus this morning: 8017 on the Q59. When I first heard these buses were going to get a second life cycle, I had the skeptical attitide that we were simply getting an old bus with a new engine. My attitude was the correct one. The bus was moving like a bat out of hell! Good thing because between the auto traffic on Grand Avenue/Street, the passenger ridership going to/from Williamsburg & the Queens Blvd. malls, and late (as usual) Q58 service in Masepth and Elmhurst, it was a chore to keep to schedule. There is insufficient recovery time at the end points. These buses should receive a good general overhaul while the bus is being repowered at the base shops. Maybe the TA will say they are, but the reality is they are not. This bus came back only a couple of weeks ago, but the driver was complaing of a defective seat, a kneeling device which didn't work and a defective digital sign which simply said: "Ridgewood". A lot of fun during the portion of the route where it runs with the Q58! After a while, we must have hit a bump because all of a sudden the sign decided to work again!
With a few exceptions most of the re-powered buses at 126th Street Depot have just received a new paint job in addition to their new DD-50 engines. Nothing else has been repaired or overhauled. Apparently in their rush to get all the buses re-powered before 2003, the TA has decided to take the slap dash approach instead of performing a serious overhaul.
the repowered 8000`s also have been retrofitted with brake retarders.the rear seats are raised about 3 inches to accommodate the new 50 engine. the 8000`s here in flatbush are about 50/50 repainted.
I noticed they also have that fire supressant/retard switch on the dashboard which are also stnadard equipment on the 1998 and 1999 Novas.
they are using two different systems. one has a cover you must lift. the other you must pull the pin to engage the system
TELL THE BUS COMPANY TO DO THAT HERE IN PUERTO RICO BECAUSE SOME 1992 BUSES (methanol switched to disel) REALLY NEED THE WORK AND SOME 1991 FLXBLE BUSES AS WELL
There is a commercial currently running promoting a new NY Lottery scratch off game revolving around a cross word puzzle. Most of the commercial takes place inside a bus with an excited female passenger yelling "help me, help me'.
Apparently there is a short version (30 seconds) and a longer version (60 seconds). In the longer version an RTS bus is shown swerving around because the driver is excited. There is a number inside the blue band on the front shots but I couldn't catch it.
Wonder if its 4199 or 1576 or a different one from Picture Cars.
Anyone seen it ?
Yup! I saw it. I notice that there was a fake Farebox inside and I also saw that a Passenger got off and fell to the ground.
the bus number is 2606 and the bus driver is wearing an old transit shirt with an m on it. i did not see passenger fall off. wouldnt bus driver have to go for a drug test since this is an onboard accident. LOL
I have been noticeing that the NEW Neoplans from Bee Line are almost everywhere. Lately I have been seeing MORE Neoplans in New Rochelle when I up there. I have saw them on the 7 and 60 Lines. I like those DD60 Series Engine! I LOVE THOSE NEOPLANS!!!!!! :)
The Neoplans I have saw so far in New Rochelle:
Route 7: 502,510,521
Route 60: 503,512.
I notice the side signs on the Neoplans on the 60 Line. The front shows (60 WHITE PLANS) and the side sign shows (GO WTE PLANS)(60).
Bee Line should fix the side sign on the Neoplans for the 60 Line going N/B. Why they have it like that?
Anybody LOVE those Bee Line Neoplans?
saw 507 on the 60 yesterday night
The reason the route number may be on the right on the side is so that it can be seen more easily by someone who is getting on. Most people will know where the bus is ending, they just need the route number.
Post Yes or No. You don't have to have a reason for it. You could type downa reason why if you want.
Post Yes or No. You don't have to have a reason for it. You could type down a reason why if you want.
Why not !
I apologize for the delay, due to circumstances beyond my control, Chatham Square was delayed but is now open. Point your browsers to www.subtalklive.com to join in.
Can the Neoplan Starliner AN 516/3 run on city streets? They seem a little tall.
Yes, they can, there is two that regularly visit a hotel in Jersey City, I have shots of them if you want. Just e-mail me.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
I first saw this bus in July of 2000 and rode it later that day. I have seen it on countless other occasions, and its side destination sign only shows the destination, no route number. It was still doing it Friday at Friendship Heights, showing it was going to "NAYLOR GARDENS", which isn't even a destination anymore. I can't recall if it shows that and then flips to NAYLOR ROAD STA. Anyway, why is this bus the only one that does this and when might someone realize and change it?
Inertia and apathy on the part of WMATA's drivers, I expect . . . they get different equipment each run, usually, so many probably either don't notice it or don't bother to fill out an equipment form.
Isn't 2219 the "famous" Metrobus that was involved in catching a shooting suspect in summer 2000? I think it was one of the new 2200s . . .
C
That was 2218, which I see quite a bit too.
New York should order Neoplan buses. They could get them into service by either the summer or fall of 2002-with the bus shortage that the city currently has, why not order them?
Neoplan is backlogged - no way they could get buses into NYC for summer. NJT won't even get their demo artic until about December.
Is NEOPLAN seriously backlogged? I wonder with what. All of these recent orders from the East Coast are the only significant orders of theirs I know of, except for the San Francisco Muni buses on the west coast. Where else is NEOPLAN currently selling buses?
Has the TA considered a B-Division car version of the R-142A? If so, would staggered or semetrical dooring be used? And would standard B-Division door widths be used or A-Division door widths?
Um, wrong board. But since you asked, I will answer:
No. If they wanted an R143A, they would have ordered it. The rest of your questions make no sense. The R143 is a B division car, thus it is built to B division standards.
The R-143 has standard door widths (openings) for a B-Divison car, what I'm saying is can the widths be wider like the R-142's.
You really are on the wrong board and probably, yes, it might be possible. Take it to SubTalk.
im waiting to see the R143A replace the R40 slants along the "Q" line(im posting it here becasue i do not have a password to get to subtalk)
BusTalk handles and passwords work for SubTalk as well and vice versa.
R143s will most likely never run on the Brighton Line.
I believe the plan is for the R-143 order to fill up the L and to overflow into the M. If the M returns to the Brighton line, or if an occasional West End M is rerouted, the Brighton line will see R-143's. There's also the possibility the cars will be moved around at a later date; just because they start on the L and M doesn't mean they'll be on the L and M forever.
I was looking more towards are car design like the R-142A but to commemorate the BigBirds R-27, 30 and 30A that ran on the BMT before the R-42's. Hence the R-143 or R-143B.
Slight problem: First of all, they can only be in 4 car sets. That means a train won't be longer than 8 cars since we can't have 12 60' cars. I proposed this on SubTalk. The R160 or R161 will take care of these needs for other lines.
The same password you use here will work on Subtalk.
There is no such think as the R-143A.
The R-143 order is not planned to replace any existing cars, except perhaps those in absolutely horrific shape. If it helps, think of the R-143 as replacing the R-27/30 about a decade late.
But will it be low floor >G
I don't want to fuel the thread here but just for the sake of answering, the R14x series are all New Technology Subway Cars. The R142 and R142A for the A-Division and the R143 for the B-Division.
Has Nova Bus Corporation considered an articulated Nova?
If you're referring to the RTS, GMC made 2 RTS artic demos back in 1983. One was 56 feet long, the other was 61. GMC does not release information on their prototypes that do not make production, and they claimed that they created some unique/exclusive articulation components that TMC and Nova would not be privy to. Thus, if Nova wanted to make an RTS artic, they'd have to start relatively from scratch. And with no guaranteed market for the bus, it just simply is not worth the R&D time and money. The RTS suburban never did sell that well either.
GM built several testbed Mega RTS and I have several P/R photos of the completed 60 footer, along with ULTRA TOP SECRET press release outlining the proposed MEGA RTS model.
As I have been informed by GMartic and my findings all of the prototypes were dismantled circa 1985.
The main problem of an RTS seemed to be the weight factor as the RTS is one of the heaviest buses around which made the Artic an almost impratical concept.
Blue
There were no secrets about the model's existence to the public, just its componentry - I still have the sales catalog for it. The 56-foot was model R10204, the 61-foot was R20204.
It was just never sold to anyone.
Where have you been, Nova is no longer building the RTS, the RTS is dead, AGAIN DEAD!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
NO, THE RTS IS NOT DEAD!!! LAST TIME I CHECKED, WHICH WAS ABOUT 10 MINUTES AGO, WE WERE STILLING BUILDING THE RTS. (GREATEST BUS AROUND).
It's more likely that you are (DIS)STILLING your beverages!
We?
If "WE" means you are in with Nova what RTS orders are on zee books right now?
Advise,
Blue
The ONLY bus YOU/Nova is building is what is left on the book, after what is on the books is taken care of,
AGAIN! THE RTS IS AND WILL BE DEAD
And if you work for Nova, you ought to read you own damn press releases!!!!
Your employment by Nova is VERY questionable!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
Note: If you go to Montreal, Quebec, or to Halifax, Nova Scotia, you'll see some articulated NOVA Classics in service. These buses were built in the 90's so if you decide to go to these cities, you'll see them in service.
That I know that, I have slides of them, there is ONLY two in existance that is running in service.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
Minor correction:
The Classic artics are actually in Halifax and Québec City Québec, not Montréal. For as huge of a fleet as it is, STCUM (that's a slightly outdated name) has only three types of buses, and every single unit is 40 x 102. They have never had any artics!
Geez calm yourself mister...you may give yourself a heart attack. I did read my damn press release and yet you know less than we do so shut the hell up.
Pffffttt...........(With a hint of sarcasm!)
another RTS 2150............
TMC RTS 2159 is out of Div.2 as far as I know.
I know it used to be at Div.7.
Poor SPearmint I always think of his forlorn TDH 4801 RTD 2150 when I hear the number.
He just didnt have the time...
Blue
Who will make kick ass buses like those? i know the lfs's are piece of shits and had bad experiences with some. Sorry if anybody from nova does not agree but ask aournd and will see many do agree.
For those of you who might be interested in the Baltimore System, Past, Present, and Future. I've finally updated my Baltimore Transit Archives Site.
The site has now moved to it's own domain at www.btco.net Feel free to stop past and enjoy!
Here is the first look at OBI-Orion CNG #7560 on Bx28 at Gun Hill Rd this afternoon.
Peace
David J.
MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
thanx
Nice shot!
C
WOW!!!
Wow... that's not the worst looking bus I've ever seen. Looks-wise, it's actually OK. Of course, we all know that the Orion VIIs are going to fail miserably in NYC and we will have another Grumman 870 fiasco on our hands (that is if Orion even manages to produce the entire VII order for MTA) but if nothing else, these next few years will certainly be interesting for transit critics such as ourselves.
I stand by my prediction that MTA will be ordering NEOPLANs by 2004.
Great shot, ugly bus!
nice..snazzy..hope it comes to brooklyn sooner or later.
That is one nice looking bus,it does look like New Flyer C40LF except it does have the Grumman/Flxible/Gillig/Orion V & VI slanted windshield.Can't wait til QV gets them next in HEV mode.
Where is a picture of the bus?
Even if you are under a time constraint, look back in the thread. I have some understanding for not always being able to go back a few days since you are pressured, but you are asking a question which probably was answered in the thread, since you are in the thread itself.
Also, I just answered your question. Please take a look.
At first, I thought this bus would look like an ugly piece of crap, but it actually doesn't look that bad. It looks too similar to the Newflyers at JG.
-Jay
Has anyone got pics of this bus?
If so I would apprieciate them.
Blue
What do you want with a pic of a 1999 Nova?
Trevor, it's not only why he wants a pic of a 1999 Nova but why 5031?
#5031 M57
The 5031 is only special as my good friend Mr.Orange gave me a pic of the 5031 from a past trip.
I would just be curious to see a pic of it in service.
One of my many offbeat requests.
Mr.Blue
P.S Maybe the bus carries some ULTRA SECRET test engine and I am keeping everyone in suspense!
L
O
L
Do anybody have any info on #7560 on when it leave's Co-Op City and the other end of the line?
Q46 Nova, I know you are a young guy, but we have to start treating you like a big guy for you to learn how this board works. I have a feeling you are not going to get too many responses, if any besides my own. And I am not going to answer it either, based on what we've been discussing recently on bustalk about certain types of posts. I think you should be able to answer your own question if you research previous posts and what I personally told you in the past about buses.
BIG AL
Thank you anyway since I fround out myself
Stand somewhere on the 28 line for an hour or so and you're sure to see it roll by eventually.
Other than that nobody can be sure that it's gonna be assigned to the same run(s) every day. The yard dispatcher probably has instructions about who to give that particular bus to. As was mentioned here I think BUSter mentioned it being on run 10 the other day while i heard via radio it was working 23 run another day. Now maybe 23 relieves 10. But if 10 has it monday and another b/o works 10 on tuesday (not knowing RDO's for 10), he/she may not be qualified or trained on 7560. Abd so on and so on.
Therefore continuing to ask about what times you will see 7560 on the Bx28 will prove fruitless each and every time.
Thank you verry much! Now I stop asking what times for it since I would just find out myself when I see it.
If u want to see Orion Low Floor CNG #7560? Than walk down on Gun Hill Rd & you will find that bus running ethier going east or west. Don't worry they will come to you kid.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT
I'll preface this by saying that I know that there are many on this board who don't care for "cutaway"/shuttle/type-C buses, but for those interested . . .
I think I mentioned back in December an item in Metro magazine about Ford's new E-550 heavy-duty cab-and-chassis for transit applications -- to recap, the lighter-duty E-350s and E-450s just couldn't past muster, especially when compared to Class 7 truck-based buses now appearing on the market, like the International 3400-based units Ride-On has recently taken delivery of. To compete, Ford has reengineered its E-series to be considerably more robust (I think it's actually based on Ford's existing Class 7 commercial truck chassis with an E cab grafted on) . . . the effect I don't particularly care for; it looks kind of like a monster truck/bus hybrid. Anyway, here's a photo of the first bus I've seen based on this new chassis, a Goshen coach on steroids:
Thoughts, anyone? What would this look like in Ride-On colours?
C
Ride-On seems to have turned to a new paint scheme with the 5100 and 5200 series buses. I have some pics of 5202 and 5209 now on my website, as well as 5101 and 5124, the former being online for some time.
I was watching the movie "Quick Change" with Bill Murray as a bank robber. Towards the end of the movie, they showed Bill Murray and friedns getting on an NYCT Flixble New Look 7098 which had the sign "Q9 Jamaica/JFK Airport" (Yeas, Q9 is operated by Green Bus Lines but this is a movie). The bus driver was funny because he was acting like a few bus drivers do...being on time. Qtraindash7 would have loved this guy on the N20 or N21. He's very nice, on time but crazy. Lol! Let me know if you saw this movie.
Ray
Hey Ray, We spoke of this movie here several times, even just recently. Check out some of the Bus Talk archives for more info.
Rich.
I still say that bus #7098 really WAS a city bus, and not something done up for the movie (I know Steve Hoskins will disagree with me on this). I watched the film again, and everything inside would have been correct for that time. The farebox, seats, interior color scheme, and lighting all appeared original. What really surprised me about that bus was that it still had the Flx nameplate on the front. Thought a driver or mechanic would have stolen it long before then....
Im looking for someone who paits model buses. I own NOVABUS models and GMC New Look and trying to find someone who can paint them to look like CAT design(that's citizens Area Transit in las vegas)-i used to ask Flixible, but her is not posting till july. I tried Collectors corner, but no response. Does anyone do them? If you do, maybe we can work out a deal.
email at pingu45@aol.com
Simon, there are several people who may paint buses.
1 - Steve Hoskins ---shoskins@ix.netcom.com
2 - Dave Dearstyne --mackbuses@aol.com
3 - Fred Donaher--Fredman176@aol.com (but as you know he is "away on an emergency of sorts" for a while
And I am NOT cheap!!! My time and efforts are valuable.
ok steve-give me a offer for the following item:
GMC New look-the model with the wheels that you push back in CAT-LAs Vegas Transit scheme. Please email me at pingu45@aol.com with price and way to send check, and how long work would take.
Yestday i rode 2 buses out of Yukon Depot(Orion V #6328 and RTS06-#8294)-both were missing the Bus Information Center normally on board the window behind the driver. Has Yukon failed to put it on or is something happenig to these buses that wqould make them not put in on to begin with.
Washington Post article on proposals being entertained for light-rail lines on Georgia Ave., crosstown to Minnesota Ave., and through Georgetown and M St., to replace/supercede bus service.
I'd love to see some restored DC Transit PCCs like San Francisco has done with their trolley service.
C
There is a thread about that on SubTalk.
Enjoy! (This was my bus today)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
A far cry from the days of suburban GM and Flxible Fishbowls when I use to camp at Alpine with my Boy Scout Troop
The last I heard, there were 4 Viking cruisers at Casey Stangel depot.
What is the total order and when will they enter passenger service? Aside from Casey Stangel, what other depots are to recieve them?
It's unlikely that there were/are 4 Vikings at Stengel, considering that NYC Transit only ordered 3. Apparently Stengel is it as far as assigning the buses.
David
996 is there, I have a photo of it on my website taken on December 28. I don't know where the others are. Someone reported seeing them at MJQ but it was then posted that was for acceptance and would eventually go to CS.
My photo is here: http://www.geocities.com/otpnycpics2/viking1.jpg. The bus was parked in a rather poor place for me to take photos, practically under the bridge between the subway and the tennis stadium.
I go to depots often, I'll act lost take pictures of anything that looks new or damaged.
One Question? What is wrong with you? And I don't think I need to go any further into explaining why I'm asking you this!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
I told you, I don't get online that often. And I use timed internet service, if I were to read every single tread, I'd loss money and time.
Ugh! That's not it! You have acess to TA equipment, LEGALLY, and you don't take advantage of photographing it. OH GOD, that makes me sick, not like I don't get my share of the juice, but if I had 24/7 access to TA equipment, I'd have every friggin' thing on photo that I could!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
Enjoy! (By TransiTALK's Own J.E.P)
Hot shit! Nice!
C
Man, that would look sweet in WMATA colors, too!!! They are probably a little cheaper than an MCI, too.
Tell me about it. I very much doubt Metro will ever buy OTR coaches, though, of any manufacture . . .
OK, time for me to sign off . . . it is kind of a luxury to have a Monday night free with nothing else to do than read BusTalk, though. Back to the grind tomorrow, though . . .
C
THATS MY BUS!!!!!! WHERE ARE THE REST??????!!!!!!!!
Great shots man Da' Bomb!
This West coast busfan is well impressed.
For the sake of me relaying the info to the King of NY what line(S) are these running on?
Please advise?
Blue aka DJ MUNI
there goes yet another one of my typos
Currently the Vikings can be seen on the X51 express bus route out of Casey Stengel Depot in Queens.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.com
What kind of engines do they have? DD50 series engines or the DD60 series engines?
Where was the 1st pic taken at? I'm puzzled by the location on that 1.
2nd I know for sure is along Queens Blvd.
I guess 996 is in revenue service now. About time.
#996 X51
Right now Casey Stengal Depot have one Viking Cruiser that is #996 & other two viking #997 & #998 are in Michael J. Quill Depot. Only one buses are in service that is #996 on X51.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT
LAst i heard, Green Bus Lines was to recieve about 100 Orion V to replace the 200's and 600's series. Is this order delayed or we will see the order in 2002? Also, whats the number series to be.
This afternoon, I took a trip into Philly to kill some time on my day off. One of my destinations was Philadelphia International Airport. I haven't been there since before 9/11, so I figured that with all of the security provisions in place, I would not be able to go to half of the terminals,(A, B, and C), without being a ticketed passenger. Despite that impediment, I was able to observe most of the ground transportation in the airport area, and what I found was quite fascinating. Outside of the usual SEPTA subjects (NABI's, NEOPLANS, and the El Dorado on rt 305), I saw a smorgasboard of buses at the airport being used in shuttle service.
Let`s start with the shuttles to the employee lot and the Long Term Parking. This line uses NOVA LFS's. the Inter-Terminal Shuttle uses a RTS that looked like it came from Rutgers Shuttle Service in New Brunswick. I know because it had a destination sign on the right and left side of the bus. Avis had 35 foot RTS,s, some looking like they were at least 20 years old (but did not look it!), Hertz had their assortment of Gillig Phantoms and Low-Floors, other car-rental companies had their assortment of cut-out buses, and the most unusual sight went to US Airways Express. They had NEOPLAN Low-floors with 3 doors, shuttling passengers from the terminal F to where they load up their small jets and turbo-prop planes. From my observations, they are 100% low floor, not the rolling lawsuits that SEPTA got from New Flyer. These buses are sooo handsome, and I wish that SEPTA would get some ASAP! They look quite nice in their dark blue and grey. After the airport, I took a quick trip to Broad and Olney. Outside of the short subway trip from Snyder to City Hall, I noticed that the Broad St Subway is getting more and more underutilized. maybe it is from the Holiday, but on occasions during non-holiday times, I see more empty seats on the trains than full trains, ant it is at the height of rush hour! I feel that this route needs some extensions or other radical surgery fast because it gives the impression that it is a dying route. It probably would habe been dead except for the crowds that pack the trains for trips to the stadiums.
Getting back to the subject, the MLK Holiday cut deeply into patronage, many of the rush-hour buses being half-full. The loss of school kids, bank, government workers, and some private employers, creates some space on most of the buses. After a 15 minute stay, I proceeded to go home, so I used the Ridge Spur line to get to 8th and Market st Station. This was a surprising and unusual trip, because the operator of the train had a British(?) accent! I never thought that in a million years that I would hear that type of accent on a SEPTA train, maybe a NYC subway or a Washington Metro train, not a SEPTA subway train. That made my day rather unusually fulfilling.
Yeah, those USAirways Express low-floor Neoplans are pretty cool. I rode on them in August when transferring planes at Philly -- they run over a fixed route (painted line on the tarmac) between the terminals. It looked to me like USAX had about ten units -- I think when I rode it there were three or four in service and six or seven sitting in a row unused (perhaps for direct-to-plane service in exigencies?). A real treat, especially with the three doors and luggge racks!
C
(I thoroughly enjoyed your review; it is well written and informative.)
Do you have any pictures of the USAirways NEOPLANs? I know United Airlines has some similar buses. I posted here a few months ago about information on "almost transit" fleets, such as those at airports and universities, but I did not even garner a single response :(
I came into the city this weekend to dance tango. When I wasn't dancing, I was joyriding the buses in Manhattan. I think my motivation was to scout the city for where I'd like to live when I retire from the Government in Washington.
One night I noticed a B/O change off on 110th Street and 5th Avenue on the #2. When the relief didn't show up on time, the B/O gave transfers to everybody was about to throw everybody off the bus. The relief did show up so we didn't have to get off.
In the day time, there was a change off on the #3 to Ft. George. I saw the relieved B/O go into what looked like a store on 110th with a sign that said "MTA." Does anybody know what this location is?
When I rode the M72, operators changed at W. 72nd and B'way.
Except for terminals, where else to operators switch off?
Michael
Any where, most relief points are made either:
1) Where the bus can safely sit for X-amount of minutes
2) Close to or at a Depot
3) End of line
There is so many relief points in the system there just isn't enough time to tonigh to even calculate and type them all!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
I'm not sure if this subject was ever discussed here in the past, but here goes: When I lived in Brooklyn, I rode the B-41 Limited Bergen Beach Branch on occaision from Flatbush/Nostrand to Utica Ave/Avenue N. The relief spot for that line was Ave N/Flatbush (I think it's now Ave P/Flatbush, 1 block difference). It seemed that EVERY time, we would pull in to the Ave N bus stop, sit there for a few minutes, then relief driver would slowly walk in to the bus, take his or her time changing the run number display, then log on to the fare box, then adjust the seat and mirrors. While this is all happening, 1 or 2 buses would go around us, all with passengers. These were usually "local" buses that we passed along the way, or were even behind us prior to Flatbush/Nostrand!
Now, I understand that the B/O's have to take care of all of those things that I mentioned, when entering the bus for the first time. However, doesn't it make the whole point of "Limited" stops USELESS if passengers traveling beyond that point have to sit for 5-6 minutes, or sometimes longer if the relief guy is late, waiting during that scenario, while other buses pass them by? Of course, passengers who exited PRIOR to that point had a beautiful ride!
Just curious about that!
Relief points and limiteds and all that stuff are not a perfect science. Especially on the 41. As scheduled, things may be timed right, but if the schedule is out the window duee to traffic. wether, etc you just have to go along with it.
And really how much time are you losing from Av P to the Plaza or to Veterans Av if you sit on the bus for an extra minute while another bus or 2 passes by and the end of the line is 4 minutes away?
Also the B/O getting relieved may have brought it to the relief point a couple minutes 'hot' so the relieving B/O may just be taking his time to be on schedule and not have sit at veterans av with the engine off in the cold for any longer than he has to.
Sounds reasonable. But it did get very frustrating when, after a long day at work, I'm trying to get home and I'm sitting there and other buses I could have boarded earlier are passing me. Even if we only sat for 3 or 4 minutes, it felt like a lot longer.
lots of times the limited bus is very early at the relief point. which mans in reality the buses that are pasing while you are sitting you should have never seen in the first place. i know first hand cause i drive the 41. 2 years ago i drove a run that did all reliefs my first half and i did nothing but limited trips and it was very hard to be on time at the relief . i was always 3 to 5 minutes hot at ave p.
Out of ALL the limted service routes in Brooklyn, who you say that the B41 is the busiest beyond the B44 and B46?
44 and 46 limiteds are busier and also those lines run limited service much later than the b 41
I believe they're what Seinfeld referred to as "tough minutes".
Around 1989-91 I worked on the upper East Side and during those days I'd rode the M4 Limited and each day northbound the B/O use to haul ass up Madison Ave and once we reached 110/5th... He'd calmly walk into the swing room, take about 5 min., slowly board the bus again and then haul ass across 110th Street and up Bway. At least one other M4 would pass us while we waited, but it was always a fun ride.
Wayne
I know on Valley Metro Phoenix The Relif Points Are:
Metrocenter: Red Line, 27, 35
19th Avenue At Desert Cove Ave: 19
Any Cross Street at 19th Avenue: Red, Yellow, Green, 3, 10, 13, 17, 19, 24, 41 & 50.
Any Cross Street At Northern Avenue: 59, 67, 80 & 122
Sunnyslope Transit Center: 0, 8, 12, 16, 80, 90, 106
Any Cross Street At 67th Avenue 60, 67, 90, 106, 138, 170, 186
Central Station: Red, Blue, 0, 3, 7, 8, 10, 12, 15 & Express (Some First Trips Double Back)
Any Cross Street At Washington & Jefferson St: 16, 19, 24 & 44
College Avenue Transit Center Tempe: Yellow, 30, 44, 56, 62, 65, 66, 72, 76 & 81.
Mill Avenue At University Drive Tempe: Red Line & 40
Arizona Mills Mall Tempe: 56, 77, 92 & 108
Mill Avenue & Broadway Road Tempe: 45
Kyrene Road & Warner Road Tempe: 124
Mesa Senior Center: 30, 104 & 120
Main Street & Country Club Drive: 112
Main Street & Stapley Road: 128
East Mesa Bus Yard (University Dr & Power Rd): 30, 184, 532 & 533
Central Avenue & Southern: 61
Alma School & Southern Mesa: 61, 104, 112
Phoenix Transit Divison Runs An Employee Shuttle Route Using A Van From South Garage At 22nd Avenue/Lower Buckeye Rd N On 19th Avenue Then East To Central Station Then Back To 19th Avenue then N To North Garage at 19th Ave/Desert Cove Ave. and Reverse. From Central Station They Have also Designated Buses Usally Artics Or NAMBI To Be Refulled At South Garage. For Other Routes A Service Car Or Van Is Used As A Shuttle
The M79 OPs switch at Broadway so they are closer to food, subway, etc. Not a big inconvienece though because most people don't go to/from Riverside Drive.
And for WMATA, the even 30s are at Jenifer Street so the operators are closer to the depot. It is one of the stupidest relief points since everyone on the bus wants to go to Friendship Heights (1 block away or for lazy people who can't cross the street, the bus loops into the bus station) and we want to make our connections. Drivers love to take their leisurely time, even if they see the bus just sitting there AND the driver and/or the bus is late. I guess customers ringing the stop requested doesn't mean all that much. After all, we would much rather all like to walk a mile to our destinations during the summer in Washington instead of taking an air-conditioned bus, right?
Union Station is a relief point for WMATA buses. (D line).
Michael
Is this new? I rode the M79 every weekday until 1992 and I never noticed this. Then again, I boarded at Broadway, so it's possible I just wasn't looking.
If you got off at Broadway, maybe that is why you didn't notice. I used to take the bus to Riverside Drive quite a bit.
The following are the relief points for the following routes:
Ulmer Park
B-1 Stillwell Ave and 86th Street
B-3 25th and Harway Ave-Ulmer Park Depot
B-4 Stillwell Ave and 86th Street
B-6 Bay 38th Street and Harway Ave-Ulmer Park Depot
B-36 Stillwell and Surf Aves
B-64 25th and Harway Ave-Ulmer Park Depot
B-74 Stillwell and Mermaid Ave
Express Routes-Pull In and Pull Out at Quill or Ulmer Park
Flatbush
B-2 Avenue S and Flatbush Ave
B-31 Avenue U and Gerritsen Ave
B-41 Was Flatbush Ave and Ave N
B-44 Flatbush and Nostrand Ave
B-46 Utica and Fillmore Ave-Flatbush Depot
B-49 Ocean Ave and Ave U
B-78 Kings Plaza
East New York
B-7 All Pull Outs and Pull Ins
B-8 All Pull Outs and Pull Ins
B-12 Alabama and Jamiaca Aves-East New York Depot
B-14 Utica Ave and Eastern Parkway?
B-15 Ralph Ave and St Johns Place
B-17 All Pull Outs and Pull Ins
B-20 Broadway and Jamaica Ave-East New York Depot
Q-24 Broadway and Jamaica Ave-East New York Depot
B-25 Alabama Ave and Fulton Street-East New York Depot
B-40 Ralph Ave and St Johns Place or Penn and Liberty Aves?
B-42 Rockaway Parkway Station or Pull Out and Pull Ins?
B-45 Ralph Ave and St Johns Place
Q-56 Broadway and Jamiaica Ave-East New York Depot
B-60 Glenwood Road and Rockaway Parkway
B-82 Rockaway Parkway Station-To Canal Ave, Glenwood Rd To Seaview
B-83 Broadway and Jamaica Ave-East New York Depot
Jackie Gleason
B-9 60th Street and 5th Ave
B-11 53rd Street and 4th Ave?
B-16 13th Ave and 39th St?
B-23 New Utrecht Ave and 62nd Street
B-35 5th Ave and 39th Street or Church and McDonald Aves
B-37 3rd Ave and 39th Street
B-43 All Pull Outs and Pull Ins I believe
B-51 Smith and Fulton Streets
B-61 Jay Street and Myrtle Ave
B-63 5th Ave and 36th Street-Jackie Gleason Depot
B-65 Smith and Fulton Streets
B-67 Church and Mc Donald Aves
B-68 Bartel Prichard Square
B-69 Bartel Rrichard Square
B-70 5th Ave and 39th Street
B-71 Union Street and either 4th or 5th Aves?
B-75 5th Ave and 9th Street
B-77 5th Ave and 10th Street
Fresh Pond
B-13 Fresh Pond Road and Putnam Ave-Fresh Pond Depot
B-18 Myrtle and Wykoff Aves
B-20 Fresh Pond Road and Putnam Ave-Fresh Pond Depot
B-24 Broadway near Williamsburg Bridge Plaza
B-26 Myrtle and Wykoff Aves
B-38 ?
B-48 ?
B-52 Myrtle and Wykoff Aves
Q-54 Fresh Pond Road and Metropolitan Aves
B-54 Myrtle and Wykoff Aves
Q-55 Myrtle and Wykoff Aves
B-57 Flushing Ave and 61st Street
Q-58 Fresh Pond Road and Putnam Ave-Fresh Pond Depot
Q-59 Grand Ave and 61st Street(Near the B-57 not sure of exact spot)
I am doing this from my recollections and I may be wrong on some of them
Hope this helps
Thank You
B38 and B48 are all pull out/pull in.
At Fresh Pond on the B38 & B48, all drivers pull out of the depot, they keep the bus during lunch, then return the bus to the depot after their tour of duty. For the B57 and Q59, the relief points for both routes is at Grand Ave/64th St.
Bill , the be 38 dose have road reliefs during the week the point is Wycoff & Dekalb Avenues
No, it used to be there but no more. Wycoff/DeKalb is not the safest area of Brooklyn to have your lunch (especially after dark!). Additionally it was a pain in the butt to deadhead from there to the depot. They would have to take the L and M trains and deal with that long stairway at Myrtle/Wycoff.
the operators on lunch -when keeping the bus , can they go anywhere with the bus.
Actually, in Brooklyn, by the schedule, the Operator is not supposed to keep the bus, except on bus shuttles. The Operator is supposed to pull the bus in, take the meal break, and pull a bus (can be the same one, but doesn't have to be) out. If an Operator is keeping the bus, it's probably with the approval of the Yard Dispatcher, but it's not official.
David
126th Street Depot
M15 2nd Ave and 126th Street-Depot
M31 York Ave and 92nd Street?
M35 2nd Ave and 125th Street
M57 Broadway and 72nd Street
M66 York Ave and 68th Street
M116 Belive all Pull Outs and Pull Ins
Hudson
M6 14th Street and Broadway or 6th Ave
M8 All Pull Outs and Pull Ins
M9 Union Sqaure
M11 15th Street and 10th Ave-Hudson Depot
M14 15th Street and 10th Ave-Hudson Depot or 8th Ave and 14th St
M16/M34 9th Ave and 34th St
M21 All Pull Outs and Pull Ins
M22 All Pull Outs and Pull Ins
Q32 7th Ave and 32nd Street
Michael J Quill
M10 41st Street and 7th or 8th Aves
M20 41st Street and 7th or 8th Aves
M23 Chelsea Piers
M27 41st Street and 8th Ave
M30 None
M42 12th Ave and 42nd Street
M50 12th Ave and 41st Street-Michael J Quill Depot
M72 Broadway and 72nd Street
M79 Broadway and 79th Street
M86 Broadway and 86th Street
M96/106 Broadway and 96th Street
M98 None
M102 42nd Street and Lexington or 3rd Aves
More time points later
Thank You
Thank you!
Do post the others if you get a chance, I would very much appreciate it.
Additonal Relief Points
Michael J Quill
Express Routes- Pull Outs and Pull Ins
Mother Clara Hale
M1 West146th St and Lenox Ave-Depot
M7 West 146th St and Lenox Ave-Depot
Bx 19 West 145th St and Lenox Ave
Bx 21 ?
Bx 33 Lenox Ave and 133rd St?
Manhattanville
M2 5th Ave and 110th Street
M3/M18 5th Ave and 110th Street
M4 Broadway and 133rd Street-Manhattanville Depot
M5 Broadway and 133rd Street-Manhattanville Depot
M60 ?
M101 ?
M103 125th Street and Lexington Ave
M101 is along 125th Street and Columbus, M60 must be at Broadway and 106th since I've ridden the whole line except the last 4 blocks and haven't seen it.
M60-125th street-Amsterdam Ave
M101-same locale
Yes, that is right. I knew it was the street where the M101 started heading east on the southbound run.
Casey Stengel Depot
Main Street and Rooservelt Ave-Q12,Q13,Q14,Q15,Q16,Q20/Q44,Q26,Q27,Q28,
Other routes:
Q32 Northern Blvd and 81st Street
Q48 Rooservelt Ave and Willets Point Blvd-Casey Stengel Depot
Q74 Pull Outs and Pull Ins ?
Q76 ?
Express Runs-Pull Outs and Pull Ins
Queens Village Depot
Q1 Hillside Ave and Springfield Blvd
Q2 ?
Q30 Hillside Ave and 169th Street
Q31 Hillside Ave and 169th Street
Q36 Jamaica Ave near Depot
Q43 Hillside Ave and Springfield Blvd
Q46 Union Turnpike and Springfield Blvd
Q75 ?
Q79 ?
Q83 ?
Q88 Queens Village LIRR Station
Express Routes- Pull Outs and Pull Ins
For Jamaica Depot Hopefully Big Al will post that
Sorry I do not know Staten Island and the Bronx
Thank You
I THINK the Q75 relief stop is at Hillside Av and 179th St. I saw bus ops switching at that stop about a year ago. Of course, anything can change. I ALSO THINK that the Q76 changes at 32nd Av and Francis Lewis Blvd because I use to go to Bayside High School not far from there. Again, don't quote me on this because I could be wrong BUT thanks Barry for posting this.
74 is and 76 i am pretty sure is Po and PI
I remember the Q30 having one at HH Xway W/B & Springfield Blvd. Or is this old news?
All Queens Village Depot routes pull-in and pull-out except for the Q36 (Jamaica & Springfield).
Jamaica Depot's relief points are officially located at one of three locations:
1) Archer Ave Teardrop Area--Q4, Q5, Q42, Q84 and Q85
2) 165th St Terminal--Q3 and Q77
3) Merrick & Archer--Q17
The X63 and X64 pull-in and pull-out.
Mark
kool. for QV i believe its at the Queens village LIRR station
for
Q36. i dunno what else gets relieved. i believe some Q88s. Stengel used to relieve Q44s at roosevelt avenue in flushing by main st. i dunno if they still do that
I AM OPEN TO CORRECTION....................
All Queens Village Depot routes pull-in and pull-out except for the Q36 (Jamaica & Springfield).
Not true. The Q88, Q83 and Q1 still incorporate reliefs (some even on weekends). The Q36 unofficially makes reliefs at Jamaica Ave and 222nd Street (things you'd only know if you worked at the garage, although understandably posted via official route descriptions and such).
Queens Village Depot
Q1 Hillside Ave and Springfield Blvd
Q2 ?
Q30 Hillside Ave and 169th Street
Q31 Hillside Ave and 169th Street
Q36 Jamaica Ave near Depot
Q43 Hillside Ave and Springfield Blvd
Q46 Union Turnpike and Springfield Blvd
Q75 ?
Q79 ?
Q83 ?
Q88 Queens Village LIRR Station
Maybe these are official designations, but most are incorrect as practical relief points. Actually, most runs out of QV pull in and out. Here are the relief points from the garage:
Q1 Queens Village LIRR Station (Jamaica Ave / Amboy Ln)*
Q2 No reliefs
Q30 No reliefs
Q31 No reliefs
Q36 Jamaica Ave and 222nd Street (unofficial)* **
Q43 No reliefs
Q46 No reliefs
Q75 No reliefs
Q79 No reliefs
Q83 Queens Village LIRR Station (Jamaica Ave / Amboy Ln)*
Q88 Queens Village LIRR Station (Jamaica Ave / Amboy Ln)*
*Only certain runs incorporate reliefs. Many runs will pull in and out.
** Official relief point is Jamaica Ave at Springfield Bl, however this is never used unless a probie or rookie is operating and isn't aware that we make reliefs at 222nd Street.
Also, it can be noted that because Queens Village depot is so close to the LIRR Station, many operators discuss their reliefs at the beginning of the pick, and work out an arrangement to actually make their reliefs in the depot driveway (an operator will discharge passengers, take the bus to the garage, where the relief operator is waiting to take the bus).
This is convenient if there is enough layover time between trips, however, I had a run on the Q88 which relieved AND LEFT at the same time!
I just gotten word that Flxible (Fred Donaher) is incapacitated for a while. I don't know how serious it is or what the details are. I will keep the members here posted.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
Wow, that sucks. Thanks for the update, Trevor. I've really missed his posts. : (
Fred (Flxible) will not be around until about June of 2002. I do have the details but in respect I will not share. For those that know him, do not worry he is ok, just having a little trouble.
Keep him in your prayers...Thanks!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
Keep him in your prayers...Thanks!
Done! It's been waaay too quiet around here lately :(
Today I was driving on I95 to CT. I took I95 through the Bronx. Between 2 of the elevated IRT lines (4 and 5 I assume) I saw 8307 of Yukon Not In Service Repowered. Is this a new repower or just a fix at Zerega?
Also, In CT around Stamford, I saw a truck hauling a frame. The frame was a stailess steel frame of a RTS. It was just the front nose piece - similar in size to the mockup at the Transit Museum. Any idea where this was going?
That maybe the piece for the wrecked bus in queens.
Regards,
Trevor
The frame was heading North in CT, not to NYC.
I think it was repowered recently because I know that buses #8299-8301, 8305 and 8310 were already repowered and are running in Staten Island. I guess now Yukon has 6 repowers.
Besides the fact that JG is becoming all CNG, how come there isn't going to be any diesel OrionVII's(like the orionV)? There are only a few depots that can hold CNG and Hybrids. Please don't tell tell me NYCT isn't going to get anymore diesels!
-
Will the drought at Fresh Pond ever end? 3 years and still going.
Because the new rule is that any new buses (Outside of the Artics and OTRs) must be a clean fuel bus. CNG is not the way, so that's why the TA is opting more for Hybrid. CNG is being pushed by politics, the TA would rather do without it.
Regards,
Trevor
The beauty of "hybrid" is that the fuel that allows the electricity that powers the bus to be generated can be just about anything, diesel included. The massive infrastructure costs incurred in converting a depot for, say, CNG, can be avoided.
David
All depots can handle Hybrids. I not like that need any special fueling station. The might be some special equement needed to repair them, but nothing that would requiered the depot to be rebuilted.
Robert
Last Saturday, I joy rode the M1 from 50th Street to the 147th Street Terminal. The bus went around the corner and discharged on 147th. Then the bus ran around the depot, came back on 146th, made a right turn on Lenox, and then backed up into the terminal stand. (Before I go on, what is the title of the person who stands at time control points and records a bus's passing time?)
Raegardless of title, the man yelled at the driver (female), "Mary, I want this back backed up and I want it backed up now or I'm giving you a citiation!!" (The bus WASN'T the next M1 out.)
When the next M1 showed up, the driver didn't set the destination before pulling up. The man signalled that the sign wasn't set right. The bus drove away before the man and the operator of the other bus came to fisticuffs.
I appreciate the man's devotion to customer service and having the next bus out sit at the terminal steand, but it really wasn't necessary to make a scene with the operator.
Michael
Enjoying New York every time he comes to dance tango.
The title of the person is Dispatcher. Somehow I doubt he used the word "citation". He probably said "violation". He is not supposed to yell at the operators like that in front of customers since this is very unprofessional. Maybe he was just having a bad day, or maybe the operator he yelled at constantly needs to be instructed. I'll admit there are people who tend to get carried away with their positions, and forget where they came from. The best thing for the operators is to try not taking it personally.
BIG AL
I work 146 St and Lenox Av. and I was there last Saturday, I hope it wasn't me!
What time did this occur?
If it was before 3 PM then it wasn't me, it was the morning man.
I don't remember the exact time. It was between 11 and Noon. And it was a WOMAN who was yelled at.
Michael
I spoke to the dispatcher about this incident yesterday and he remembered it vividly.
NJ Transit continues to reshape police force following terrorist attacks
TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- The restructuring of New Jersey Transit's security force -- which began in the wake of the terrorist attacks -- continues to be a work in progress.
Agency officials, with input from the state Attorney General's office and the FBI, have changed the way its 123 police officers patrol the transit system. They have added 22 officers and two bomb-sniffing dogs since the Sept. 11 attacks, and also shifted responsibility for routine patrols at train stations to municipal police departments.
"We are changing in accordance with changing times," NJ Transit Police Chief Mary Rabadeau told The Star-Ledger of Newark for Tuesday's editions.
The agency now concentrates its security staff in five core areas: Newark Penn Station, Newark Broad Street Station, Hoboken terminal, Walter Rand bus station in Camden and the Atlantic City bus station.
It also has increased police presence at Newark's Penn Station, especially during the morning and evening commutes, and a new security post is in place in the terminal's waiting room.
By the summer, NJ Transit expects to increase its police to 141 officers, the limit in its current budget. Staff turnover is now less of a problem for officials, who said the change is due in part to salary increases included in the union contract.
More changes may be coming later this year, when the agency undergoes a federal security audit. Meanwhile, officials are still reviewing recommendations made in a $100,000 police study conducted last year by former New York City Police Commissioner William Bratton.
"Are there going to be wholesale changes? No," said Jeffrey Warsh, NJ Transit's executive director. "Are there going to be significant changes that people will see that will make them feel more comfortable? They're already seeing those."
(Copyright 2002 by The Associated Press. Reprinted without permission.)
Sorry, New Yorkers, but while I'm convinced you have the world's fastest, most efficient subway, I'm equally convinced you have some of the world's SLOWEST bus routes, or drivers, not all of them, but too many. For example, I rode the M20 round trip from 34th to Battery Park and both ways we're creeping along as if the driver can't hit 15 or the bus will explode and plus he kept having issues getting back into traffic. As a part-time RTS driver myself for UMass Transit, I don't know if the TA just has some the world's most timid drivers or if they are genuinely trained be "drive defensively and slow enough so that everybody reads the banners," but c'mon 35 minutes each way is nuts. If there's too much time padded into the schedules, that needs to be looked at too.
I think the reason way they are slow is because the streets in lower Manhattan are narrow just like Lexington Av. I think the traffic is also there becase of the Holland Tunnel.
I think I disagree with a fellow poster here. As a frequent rider of both Philadelphia and NYC Subways (although I'll admit most of my NYC subway experience is in Manhattan), SEPTA's Broad Street and Market Frankford Lines host breakneck speeds on their lines, even on curves and close together stations.
Has anyone ever ridden the el as it leaves Spring Garden Station and dips on a curve under I95 to the Girard Station----thats a fast, and fun ride.
I can't comment on bus speed, NYC street traffic is much heavier than Philadelphia's although most SEPTA routes seem to operate at a good clip
And WMATA has better. I've been on a train going 77 MPH there, although the BSS does come close.
If you rode it yesterday then everyone of us (myself included) was creeping along. Yesterday was a holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King so traffic and ridership was not at normal levels. Despite the fact that it was a holiday, NYCT was running a normal weekday schedule which meant that the running time was too great for the conditions. As a general rule you're only allowed to be three minutes ahead of schedule at each designated timepoint. If the dispatcher on the line is a realistic individual then you can even run up to 5 minutes up. If the dispatcher is a total prick then you're in trouble.
Come and ride the bus today and you'll see pedal to the metal action.
Thanks! 'Tis true the system ran in needless full-service. Should've thought of that one sooner myself.
As a general rule you're only allowed to be three minutes ahead of schedule at each designated timepoint. If the dispatcher on the line is a realistic individual then you can even run up to 5 minutes up. If the dispatcher is a total prick then you're in trouble.
Actually, this isn't true. It's always been "practice" to "afford" a maximum of 2 minutes at a normally heavy bus stop, however, the rules stipulate that an infraction occurs and a violation may be issued for running even one minute early. OA is a bit more lax than the TA where the schedule is concerned because of the heavier traffic in Manhattan than the outer-boroughs.
Technicalities aside, we were all creeping along yesterday due to the implementataion of full scheduled service (barring school trippers) on a National holiday.
The latest rule went into effect 2 years ago which states bus operators are to be 0 minutes hot. I remember seeing flyers all over the place. Of course, 9 out of 10 dispatchers won't bother you if you come up 1 or 2 minutes hot at the most. However, if you are at a stand where there is a subway station, most will hold you till the time you are scheduled to leave. There really isn't any reason why somebody should be running 5 minutes hot. Besides picking up hardly anybody, all you are really doing is murdering your follower. I don't think there is one bus operator in the whole system who would appreciate their leader running 5 minutes hot. I know I wouldn't.
It is probably true that the dispatchers DHF60 deal with in Manhattan are more lax than the ones in the other boroughs because of the constant congestion the buses are always in which causes them to be late further down the line.
BIG AL
Sometimes you are going to be 5 minutes or more ahead of schedule through no fault of your own. Manhattan is a different animal than the rest of the boroughs. The schedules are written and running times are drawn up to compensate for heavy traffic. If there is no heavy traffic, which believe it or not does happen some days, then there is no way that you can not run ahead of schedule. I'll give you an example. On my first trip westbound the schedule gives me 12 minutes to go from Park Avenue to Broadway on 57th Street. A distance of 5 blocks. In heavy traffic conditions that is sufficient time. On a day that traffic is light, it is way too much time. The only solution to not running ahead of schedule is to either leave late from the beginning of the line (which cannot always be done especially if the dispatcher is a stickler for buses leaving on time.) or drive real slow (drag) down the line. I hate to drag since I feel you're doing a disservice to the passengers who have paid their fare and are looking to reach their destination in a reasonable amount of time. They should not have to suffer because of an unrealistic schedule. On a light traffic day any dispatcher with a brain in his/her head should realize that buses are going to be running ahead of schedule and not penalize the operator. As far as hurting your follower, believe me, on a light traffic day your follower is also running ahead of schedule.
well u guys try that here in puerto rico, and many of the assholes that dispatch the buses here will start talking shit, make you go around the block until u have to arrive at your hour, or make you leavbe ahead of time in a different time (TURN... the numbers in the right hand side of the buses variers from what turn you are working and route)or send u with no passengers to a certain bus stop and make you start from there
If there is no traffic, you follower won't be hurt, he will be just as early as you are.
B64
Western Detour
via 86 st,Left on 3 av,Left on 88,left on 4 av.Stand
.Return via 4 av and R on 86 st
Eastern Detour Stillwell Terminal
Via Stillwell Av from Nearside of Mermaid Av ,via Stillwll ,Right on Surf Av,R on West 17 st,Right on Neptune Av,Left on Stillwell Av
B74 From Stillwell Av at Surf Av via Stillwell Av, Left on Mermaid Av,Right on West 37 st,Right on Bayview Av,Right on West 33 st,Left on Mermaid,right on West 17 st,Left on Surf Av,Left on Stillwell Av
X27 Midtown
57 st
via Water
via Madison
X37 Midtown
57 st
via FDR Dr
via Madison
X28 Midtown
57 st
via Water
via Madison
X28 Midtown
57 st
via FDR Dr
via Madison
X27 Bay Ridge
Shore Rd
via FDR Dr
X38 Coney Island
Sea Gate
via FDR Dr
X28 Bensonhurst
Cropsey Av
FDR Dr
X14 West Midtown
57 st
via F D R Dr
via Madison
x17 Arden Hts
via Hugenot
via Drumgle
x17 Arden Hts
Hugenot av
via New Jersey
Via Drumgle
x21 Pleasnt Plains
Bloomingdle Rd
via New Jersey
via Rossvil
x22 Tottenville
via New Jersey
via Amboy Rd
x31 New Sprngvil
Ar Kill Rd
via New Jersey
X42 West Midtown
57 st
via F D R Dr
via Madison
x42 Mariners Hbr
South Av
via F D R Dr
Does anyone have a listing that shows what the original GM Fishbowl bus number was and what number it was changed to when Blitz rebuilt them?
The 5000 to 5099 were the 8000's
5100 to 5199 were the 8800's
5200 to 5299 were the 4300's
5300 to 5399 were the 6000's(TA) and the 4800's(OA)
5400's were the express 6900's
Best I can offer you
Thank You
I've been trying to get this list myself for sometime now. The following was from a list posted by Mike M on Bus Talk on Oct. 18,1999 post # 7208:
1966 GMC 5303A 5000-5022 (original 8000's)
1968 GMC 5305A 5100-5159 (original 8800's)
1970 GMC 5305A 5200-5284 (original 43/4400's)
1972 GMC 5309A 5300-5340, 5365-5404 (original 6000's & 4800's ?)
1972 GMC 5310A 5341-5364 (original 6100 expresses)
1972 GMC 5309A 5500-5527 (original 62/6300's ?)
1973 GMC 5310A 5528-5576 (original 6900's & OA 4500 expresses ?)
Also the following info I received from various BT posters on various occasions, though I don't know how accurate these are, this is what I have:
4487=>5200
8849=>5130
6164=>5341
6349=>5527
4503=>5575
4504=>5576
4401=>5227 (last TA fishbowl retired 3-8-94)
Holy cow, even i dont remember that!!!!!!!
Found it amongst some papers I printed......LOL!
Rich, Mike, Barry, thank you for your responses. You are very helpful. Can anyone find out what the bus numbers were bus-to-bus? I.E. GM Fishbowl #4567 became Blitz #5010.
Sorry I could not help you even more. Try contacting the TA Public Affairs Department as they may still have the information. Please do not forget that these buses were rebuilt in late 1984 and in 1985 which is almost 18 years ago.
Thank You
Thank you! Do you have any information on which depots these buses were in for their last days? I know the 5200's were at Amsterdam and possibly 100th Street; as a frequent rider of the M104, M86, and M79, I got to know them very well.
I really wish a few of these buses could have been kept in service. They ran very nicely and they handled rush hour crowds much better than their successors.
Blitz did a really nice job refurbishing them. Many of those buses saw their way to MSBA after the city retired them. Not long after MSBA got them, the first thing they did was disconnect the A/C units (many of which ran beautifully) so the drivers wouldn't want them. Out of all of them, 5549 was the fastest, since it had a 4-speed transmission. 5403 couldn't get out of its own way (MSBA finally corrected that just before it was scrapped). Towards the end, they didn't bother changing the fluids or doing anything to maintain them. Really a shame....
Yes, I remember 5549 well. Didn't a few others get the tranny upgrade?
Also... why would they not want the B/O's to want them? Possibly the maintaners didn't want them around????
Wayne
some of those 5500's series following the incident of the Verrazano Bridge did see work. they were assigned to Ulmer Park(though i do not remember which numbers though)-a few of them ever went to MSBA(now Long Island Bus)-it's amazing. The TA pulls them off express routes becasue of what happened and brooklyn gets them-go figure
When they were removed from express service, many (if not all except for the one in the accident) were reassigned to local service -- Ulmer Park was not the only depot that got some. I used to ride them out of Flatbush.
David
Can you elaborate about the Verrazanno Bridge accident, and what happened with the re-assignment.
Thanks
the way i heard it was a blitz was running on the X17 returning from manhattan to Staten Island. apparently, someone was sitting over the back wheel on the passenger side when all of a sudden, the bus hit a bump. The bottom part came up and smashed the guy in the eye. Must have been political complaint or fear that send these buses out of Yukon and off to local lines. Isnt it amazing that Castleton NEVER had Blitz express buses?
FP received 5531, 5534, 5536.
5549 is the only bus I can remember with the tranny upgrade. I'm sure there were others, but MSBA didn't get them. Originally, there were about 50 Blitz rebuilds, and several retired RTS's. The transmissions I liked the best were in the '78 Flx NewLooks (the Selec-Trac). Those were MSBA's high 800 series.
You may have a point - by that time they were already all gung-ho to make the transition to CNG, so I'm sure they were trying to expedite the fishbowl's demise.
Oh yes, I remember those late 70's Flxibles - of course MSBA's were awesome with their 96 inch width and DD 8V-71N engines.
Wayne
I absolutely remember those rockets flying past my Q43 while I was on my way to school. Buses 850-904 used to absolutely "terrorize" TA buses along Hillside Avenue and were, by far, the best and fastest buses that MSBA/LIBus ever had. EVER!!
Mark
My favorite of that series was #854. Not long before MSBA scrapped it in 1997, it had been completely refurbished, with new paint, a rebuilt transmission, and the a/c actually WORKED! Originally, buses #850-875 were assigned to the Rockville Centre depot and buses #876-902 to the Mitchell Field Depot.
Does anyone out there besides me remember when MSBA had the 8 1/2 foot wide 1975 Flxibles from the city? They were white with a reddish-orange stripe. This was back in the early '80's.
You mean MSBA actually used some of the Flxibles (TA 7500-7659, OA 7700-7937)??? These were the Flxibles that I just did not like. I though they sounded really bad when they got older and many of the seemed to have sagging rear ends. I also fondly remember MSBA's T6H-5310A's. I lived in the Bronx, but I had an aunt that lived on Francis Lewis Bvld., one block south of Hillside. I used to enjoy watching/listening the fishbowls and those all too awesome Flxibles cruising along. I agree with Q5Merrick as they really did terrorize TA buses.
Wayne
Wayne - were those MSBA 5310As numbered from something like 800-850? If those are the ones you?re thinking of, I used to ride them between Hempstead and Jamaica. That was during the first gas crisis (around 1974) while I was a student at Hofstra. ?P?If you found those impressive, you would have gotten a kick out of the 5301s that were in service for Stage Coach Lines and Mid Island Transit. I had to transfer from the Bee Line route (well back then it was Bee Line not connected in any way to current Westchester Bee Line) at Hempstead bus terminal to the Hempstead Turnpike bus - to reach Hofstra. Those 5301s were in pathetic condition - obvious victims of bad maintenance for many years.
Dave, I believe MSBA's T6H-5310A's that Wayne refers to were fleet #105-112. They were the first new buses for MSBA, arriving in 1973. I recollect that they were added on to a NYCTA express bus order, and had the same high back express seats.
Fleet #800-849 were MSBA's 2nd order of new buses, and were T6H-5308A's arriving in 1974. They had plastic transit seats with blue vinyl cushion inserts.
[Does anyone out there besides me remember when MSBA had the 8 1/2 foot wide 1975 Flxibles from the city?]
There were a number of occasions on which new look buses from NYCTA or MABSTOA finished their lives as MSBA buses:
571-580 were originally TA 5301's in the 1001-1130 series.
500-506 were originally MABSTOA 5303's in the 6401-6699 series.
507-511 were originally MABSTOA Flxibles in the 4600's
350-399 were originally Flxibles in both lower and upper 7000 series. These 50 buses came when MSBA was really having a major equipment problem.
Wow - I certainly didn't know about those particular TA/OA new looks going to MSBA. BTW-Those 4000 series Flxibles from MABSTOA were numbered 4600-4727.
Thanks for the info.
Wayne
[BTW-Those 4000 series Flxibles from MABSTOA were numbered 4600-4727]
This is true. However, the one's MSBA got were all 4600's, not any 4700's.
Oh - OK. Thanks again. Sometimes I wish I had grown up in Queens because I missed much of the MSBA scene when it was interesting. However, it's great that you all are filling in the missing pieces.
Wayne
During my days back in OV, I would sometimes see a Blitz soft seater running as the N6. usuall crowded. I liked the fact that the original livery was unchanged, except for the addition of MSBA lettering. The only softseater I was ever on was 5105 running as the M2. Believe it or not, the seats were not torn up yet. Kinda sad to see them go. Most of my time was spent riding unmodified Fishbowls.
I'm proud to say that I drove this bus for most of its short career at MSBA, including its final run, and used it extensively on Routes N20/N21 on the North Shore. The passengers loved its soft seats and many times at the terminals it was necessary to wake the passengers since the bus' comfortable seats put them to sleep. Mechanically, this bus was in excellent condition when retired. It never received official destination signs so I made some of my own. Personal efforts to have this bus, and Flxible 434, which I also drove almost exclusively after 5549's retirement, were fruitless. But, as many BusTalkers know, I was able to purchase and restore Flxible 699, a true sister to 434. And, I also had the privilege of ending 434's career, but on a sad note. A transmission leak gave way on its deadhead from Glen Cove to Mitchel Field Depot that evening, and the bus had to be towed to the garage; the bus would have probably been in service longer except for this. 434's demise ended the New Look era at MSBA. An even sadder note - since the New Looks, with their absence of power steering, were retired, my stomach has grown! They were superb exercise vehicles! If we could only have buses with the driver's choice of power or manual steering, perhaps I could choose the latter and get the waistline down....
Joe,
Did you attempt to acquire #5549? I remember seeing it too laying over in Flushing a few times. Maybe buses could have power-assisted steering. I've driven a few fishbowls and like car w/o power steering I like the feel when turning at speed, but it was a workout at low speeds.
Wayne
Joe,
This is Denny from Shoreline Trolley Museum. I either instructed you or tested you on trolley cars about 3-4 years ago. I also have one of you MegaBus Calendars. I also have a pic of your MSBA bus next to 4573 in front of Sprague.
I posted the original question if anyone knew what were the TA fishbowl bus numbers before they were rebuilt and what was their new Blitz bus number. No one has a listing. Can you help?
I really miss the Blitz Rebuilds too here. The seating was pleasant, even hard backed, and those throaty two speed transmission shifts were fun for a ride. Those Bell Rang signs, the working A/C and the clattering fareboxes at Hudson Pier made riding a 5300 worth saying something nice of MABSTOA.
RTS-Rolling Ton of Scrap
Good Sounds!!!!
Those were pretty good. Thanks for a pleasant flash back in time. I have lots of fond memories of the fishbowls and those that were "Blitzed". It appears that your pics were taken during those early days before the (local) Blitz fishbowls were retrofitted with the rooftop A/C. It was also good seeing the good 'ol farebox as well. I t liked them because they had the depot on them.
Wayne
Thanx for posting the pictures. Brings backs a lot of memories.
Can't Triboro just PUT the ones that just WHITE into the NEW Triboro Colors that they got on #602 and #2067 and some others? The WHITE paint job is just Boring! And I refuring to Orion5 CNG's #3033,#3067-#3069,and #3071-#3072.
I believe #3049 is plain white...unless they did something to that one...I believe I have a pic of #3049 without any red stripe...plain just like the others you mentioned...I also thought #3031 was also plain white...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
3031 has the red paint on her. Here are the ones without them:
3033 3049 3053 3067-3069 3071
#3033 Q18
I got 5588 again today. There are some ads on the inside now and the front sign now works. Driver said a total of 5 or 6 were on the road and more were slowly coming in. 5421 was on the 47. Also, the 5100 thingys do still say ROCK SPRING SHUTTLE at least on their side signs for the 6 route, it seems the front omits the word SHUTTLE now. The reading for the 96 is ROCK SPRING PARK.
Here are a few front, back, and interior views of the one and only (for now) #7560...Howdayalike? (Comments are always without a doubt welcome...)
Photos:
1- #7560 @ 205th St/Bainbridge Av, Norwood (view 1)
2- #7560 @ Earhart Lane in Co-op City.
3- #7560 @ 205th St/Bainbridge Av, Norwood (view 2)
4- #7560 interior.
Have fun!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Very nice pictures! I can't decide what to think of this bus. I'd like to say that it looks cool, however, the windows might look better if they had the white trim around them. I don't think Orion knew exactly what to do with this bus, so they took a little bit of every bus out there and made it into this thing.
Has anyone on the board had a chance to drive it?
White trim? Are you nuts? White trim around anything makes them look like shit! (Only my opinion...)
"...makes them look like shit!"
Sorry, makes it look like shit.
LOL, well, ok, if not white trim, then something! Of course the bus is suffering such an identity crisis that it appears to be a total work in progress.
I agree, the windows need some modifications.
The ORION VI is a better looking bus than thissquare monstrosity. All they had to do to improve the VI was to relocate the engine from its stand-up position and place it in its normal position (across the bus) and it would be a better looking bus. This looks like a ripoff of the New Flyer Bus, both interior and exterior.
Agreed!
If New Flyer sues, boy will they ever win. Orion go back to the drawing board, and fast!
Next up.....Neoplan!
LOL...Orion REALLY needs to get back to the drawing board...or just simply hire ME to do the job...I am a busfan/phtographer/artist...(Trevor, you've seen my drawing, the one I sent you last year, that's proof...) SOme of you may know...Trevor, Bingham C50, Flx870, etc...
For those who do not know my drawing potential, I will post a few drawings that I created...real soon!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Great shots Clean... To me, the "deck and 1/2" is back in production. That's this bus, for sure. I'm undecided but I think i favor the VI and the New Flyer, however those are also deck and 1/2's. Other than Gillig, can't someone produce a "true" single-deck low floor? And why the break in the black-out around the windows?
[Other than Gillig, can't someone produce a "true" single-deck low floor?]
Even Gillig can't! Even though the windows on the Gillig low-floor bus are all at the same level, the bus has a stepped-up rear, just like the NABI's, New Flyers, etc. I believe the only true somewhat totally low floor buses in North America are the Orion VI and the Nova LFS.
I don't think that's completely true. I do believe from what I've seen is that the NOVA LFS' Charlotte has have a step up in the rear. The other odd thing about CATS' Nova's and Gillig's are that they have the old school stop request pull cords. The Flxible's have the strips but the rest have the pull cords. I said to myself I haven't seen these things since I was going to kindergarden on the B38 in Brooklyn.
If New Flyer sues, boy will they ever win.
Does New Flyer have a patent on the low-floor 'deck and a half' design?
If they do, then NABI and others besides Orion are in trouble too.
I happen to believe that the proliferation of New Flyer and other similar low-floor 'decks' means that this design is winning out over the buses which are 100% low-floor. Which is a good thing, IMHO.
Jim D.
The ORION VI is a better looking bus than thissquare monstrosity.
I diagree. I actually don't mind the Orion VII. It looks more like a 'regular' bus than the Orion VI with its too-low windows and doors. And don't get me started about the transit operators who have purchased their Orion VI's with the rear door at the very back of the bus.
Jim D.
my sister loved the pics of the Orion VII-cant wait till the test is over so these can come to JG for the B68 lines.
Tell her I said thanks...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairubs Transit Page
Whew! That's kinda funky looking. I usually like windows to have the black outline, but I'm not feeling it in the case.
Wayne
I'm with you, man. This bus is a hodgepodge of parts-bin pieces thrown together, and the end result looks like a New Flyer C40LF on crack.
I think the windows, which look similar to the Excel units used in some Flxible Metro-D and -E units, are problematic because the black trim and thick, angular frames don't gibe well with their placement at two levels and heights and in two separate banks. White trim alone wouldn't help it . . . I think the windows need to be the thinner-framed, rounded-edge type units used in the Orion VI and New Flyer C40. (Believe Excel was the manufacturer of those as well.)
That's actually my only main objection . . . yeah, it looks a lot like a C40LF, but there's only so much you can do with a low-floor bus, design-wise. Personally, I'm no great fan of the awkward Orion VI, either, but with the compromises required by different floor heights and such, there's no way around the stepped beltline and "turban" roofline.
C
First impression is: WHAT THE HELL IS THIS!!!
Second impression is: Windows are way too big
I think that this bus should be scrapped IMMEDIATELY! What is the MTA thinking? I hope these buses have the same type of problem as those Grummans that NYCTA had in the early 80's. Although, nice pics Cleanairbus!
Under what criteria should a brand new bus be scrapped immediately?
David
I'm sorry if I was not clear David. I think it looks ugly. From what I hear from Carlton, it's going to Queens and Brooklyn? I'll give it a chance but I'll stick with the traditional buses for now.
Well, according to original plans, the Orion VII CNG (once the buses come in)would have gone to Jackie Gleason, Coliseum, and Manhattanville Depots...the Orion VII HYBRID (again, once the buses are delivered) would have gone to Queens Village Depot, as well as Mother Clara Hale Depot.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Thank you.
You can call me Carlton...hey, BTW, the bus was nowhere to be found today...unless someone actually saw it either early this morning or after 2:00pm, when I left Co-op City and travelled the Bx28 line looking for it...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Is it only on the Bx28?
yes .maybe ill take the 31 to the 28 today
Let's give it chance, I understand that the Coliseum won't open up to 2003 so by that time they should of worked the Bugs out if it.
It kinda looks just like a New-Flyer bus, very nice. I must ride it.
The Orion VII Demo I seen at least 6 months ago had full New Flyer D40 style frontal windows and the front looks like a D40 Clone. I wonder if words have been said between New Flyer and Orion because the New York version has reverted back to the usual Orion V design.
I have always liked the Orion V, hated the Orion VI, so the VII is a winner to me, very nice bus.
If I may put another slant on the passenger windows subject, does anyone think there is a touch of the early model Nova LFS style about them?
Dave.
Oh yeah. Certainly.
I think there is a touch of Flxible in them which tears me up with those windows, which the same can be said for the 1st and 2nd Generation LFS.
Yes Orion did change that window and a few other New Flyer like things on the bus, now it looks something of a Orion. However that back is just plain nasty, It looks like it has its ass in the air, UGH!. I'd have to do some serious posing when I do photos to really make the bus look good in my eye!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches-TOR B/O
www.transitalk.com
Well, (lol) I thought I already did that with MY pics! (IMHO) Or at least made a very good attempt trying to...don't ya think?
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Personally, the Orion 7 looks cool to me everywhere except the rear of the bus. The design seems rare to me. Anyway, thanks that Orion still keep its new buses with slanted driver's windshield despite the previous "D40LF New Look" demo Orion 7s.
Could anyone tell me if the bus is powered by Detroit Diesel Series 50G and Allison B400R?
Thanks!
Detroit Diesel Series 50G DDEC IV 275 Hp to a Allison B500R World 5-Speed Automatic.
Trevor......
OK--I always see these Continental shuttle run by Academy downtown, I'm wondering, where do these go to/from? And are they free?
I was thinking it was an employee shuttle. Over the Thanksgiving holiday I had an airline connection at EWR in which I boarded a small (Embraer 135) jet and one of the Academy/Continental buses shuttled us from the terminal to the plane which was about 1500 feet away.
Wayne
D.C. Transit May Go Retro
Streetcar Revival Considered 40 Years After Departure
By Lyndsey Layton
Washington Post Staff Writer
For nearly a century, streetcars clattered along steel tracks dug into the broad boulevards of the District and its suburbs, one of the most extensive trolley systems in the country.
Congress killed the cream and green trolleys in January 1962, replacing them with diesel buses that promised a modern way to get around the city.
But the explosion of downtown traffic, the pollution belched by buses and the difficulty of traveling across town on a hub-and-spoke subway system have forced city leaders to reconsider.
On the 40th anniversary of the last trolley's final trip in the District, officials are looking to the past for a solution for the future: They want to revive the electric streetcar. And they have identified three possible routes.
They are a north-south route that would run from Silver Spring on Georgia Avenue to the Waterfront Metro station before turning east to the Potomac Avenue Metro station; a crosstown route from Woodley Park through U Street to the Minnesota Avenue Metro station; and an east-west route from Georgetown along M Street to the new convention center.
"It's interesting how the world turns," said Mahlon "Lon" Anderson, of AAA, an automobile advocate and unlikely booster of the trolley idea. "When they were eliminated, they were seen as a nuisance. And today, they're seen as quaint and charming and good for urban transit."
The District's revived interest in trolleys comes during a national renaissance of streetcars, also known as light rail. In 1975, seven cities operated light-rail systems. Today, that number is 19, with 10 extensions or systems under construction. An additional 43 systems are proposed or have been approved in places as diverse as Arizona and Hawaii. Even in New York, the U.S. city best served by transit, residents want a river-to-river trolley to link the East Village, the West Village and Greenwich Village.
"It's not just in the U.S.; it's worldwide," said Tom Larwin, general manager of the transit system in San Diego, which was built in 1981 and was the first in the new wave of U.S. light-rail systems. "Light rail offers a lot of capacity, speed and performance like your Metro, but you can do it a lot cheaper."
The federal government has backed the District's dreams with $750,000 in research money. Metro engineers, asked by the city to study trolleys, spent two years analyzing 13 potential routes and have narrowed the choices to the three corridors deemed worthy of more analysis.
This week, city officials will brief the D.C. Council and launch a series of public meetings in neighborhoods along the proposed lines. The next step is to seek federal funds for preliminary engineering.
The District's project -- its first proposal for new transit in a generation -- coincides with plans by Maryland to build a light-rail Purple Line from New Carrollton to Bethesda and studies by Arlington County into light-rail possibilities along Columbia Pike and Route 1.
"We're interested in making connections with light rail that Maryland and Virginia are considering," said Alex Eckmann, administrator in the D.C. Office of Mass Transit.
As a means of transportation, light rail falls somewhere between bus and subway. It consists of rail cars that can run alone or as a train at average speeds of 10 mph, compared with 8 mph for buses and 27 mph for subways, according to P. Takis Salpeas, of Metro's department of transit system development. Stops are typically closer together than in a subway.
Light rail runs on electricity, and most cars draw power from a pole that connects with overhead wires.
In Washington, a congressional ban on overhead wires in the heart of the city poses a special problem.
The old streetcar companies buried the power source under the track bed. Dan Tangherlini, the District's director of transportation, is hoping for a modern-day solution that will not significantly add to the cost.
The idea of a streetcar revival excites some Washingtonians, who wistfully recall the trolleys, post their memories on a Web site and make pilgrimages to the National Capital Trolley Museum in Colesville to ride a refurbished car around a small track in the woods.
Anderson, 53, remembers vividly when his grandmother took him and his sister to ride the last trolleys on Jan. 28, 1962.
"She told me, 'Mahlon, you mark my words: Washington will rue the day it eliminated trolley service,' " he recalled.
Bringing light rail to crowded city streets might mean the loss of on-street parking or a travel lane for cars, but that does not trouble Anderson. "This may be one more tool to help us move people in a very, very congested area," he said. "If it comes at the cost of some automobile traffic, so be it."
Metro's senior managers say they have no bias against trolleys, but many believe that the best solution to crosstown travel is building another main subway line through the heart of the District.
"Heavy rail makes more sense for places like M Street," said Royce Drake, a Metro engineer leading the District's light-rail studies. "That's just my opinion. And I recognize that these are decisions that are going to be made by the political leaders."
Peter C. Kohler, a transportation historian and author of a new book about the waning years of the District streetcar, is blunt:
"I don't see Metro as having any kind of commitment, emotionally and financially, to surface transportation," Kohler said. "Metro is heavy rail."
Tangherlini said Metro's "organizational inertia" is a challenge. For example, Metro engineers say they require a width of 24 feet to lay a double track for light rail -- which would require the removal of on-street parking and maybe a travel lane and part of the sidewalk on some streets. But a new light-rail system in Kenosha, Wis., used only 16 feet to build its double track -- making it easier to fit on a street.
"There are solutions that other cities are exploring," said Tangherlini, who keeps a model of a D.C. Transit streetcar in his office.
"We have huge internal circulation needs," Tangherlini said, adding that trolleys could replace shuttle buses run by federal agencies to ferry workers across the city.
One of the biggest light-rail successes is in San Francisco, which opened a line in 1995 that runs vintage trolleys painted the colors of companies that ran streetcars in various cities.
The historic F line was an instant hit with tourists and trolley buffs, and commuters also embraced it. When the single trolley line replaced two bus lines, ridership nearly tripled, said Ronald Niewiarowski, a planner at the San Francisco Municipal Railway.
The San Francisco line is so popular that volunteers sweep and wipe the cars at the end of each day. "We have no other line where people volunteer to clean our cars," Niewiarowski said. "The operation is a gem. It's a jewel."
Tangherlini sees the potential for a historic D.C. route for tourists but says the city's first obligation is to transport locals. Most District residents ride Metrobus, not Metrorail, because the bus network reaches far more neighborhoods than the subway, he said. Those bus riders need a faster way to get around, he said.
The corridor with the most promise appears to be Georgia Avenue. The congested boulevard, once a major streetcar line, is one of the city's busiest bus routes.
As many as 45,300 riders a day would board trolleys on the corridor, according to planning estimates. People who would not ride buses would ride a streetcar, experts say. It's easy to board, and it has a sense of fun, they say.
What's more, "There's something reassuring about a streetcar line," Kohler said. "It's permanent. It's a commitment to downtown. It defines cities and neighborhoods."
Metro officials have only rough estimates for the cost of building a light-rail system and point out that variables -- such as whether the trolleys would run down the middle of the street or alongside it -- have yet to be determined.
District officials are counting on federal financial help.
"If it were entirely a matter of local resources, this would just be a paper exercise," said D.C. Council member Jim Graham (D-Ward 1), who is a vice chairman of the Metro board of directors. "But it isn't. The federal government has a very important role to play here."
Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.) said she will push for the project when the nation's transportation spending plan is reauthorized next year. Norton, who rode the streetcars as a teenager, said she is not driven by sepia-toned memories.
"I don't want to romanticize the old streetcars," said Norton, who lived near the Georgia Avenue line as a girl. "I was very pleased to see them go. They held up traffic and had so many stops that if you wanted to go downtown to Hecht's, it was one of the longest rides in captivity. Everybody rode the streetcars, and it took forever to get there."
But times have changed, she said. "I'm very much for funding light rail for air-quality reasons and because of the inefficiencies of the buses. We need to move back to the future and try the light rail."
Source: The Washington Post Company
Is in the process of being scrapped.
that bus use to fly on the hwy. drove it on the 27 x out of gleason.
They all fly on the highway. It's local service that's of concern; a bus that can get out of it's own way (or up a hill).
1 down 3 to go at QV 1 at MJQ. Who will be the last?
#1751 Q46
They should keep the last one and put it in the Museum fleet
They should keep the last one and put it in the Museum fleet
1201 is already there. Anyone know if 2679 considered historic or storage?
I talking about the 1982 RTS Soft Seaters NOT the Hard Seaters
2270 - 1981 RTS @ Yukon
2660 - 1982 RTS @ Yukon
STill Here.
1826 may be the last express, 2270 the last local.
RTS #4883, from Fresh Pond, is being furnished with a Queens Village Depot radio as I post, and will enter service shortly.
Is that the only bus you are getting so far?
The shop foreman inferred we've "got a few of them" (coming). Don't have the bus numbers though. I saw 4883 on the lift.
I guess QV will get 4800s to replace those 1982 RTS Suburbans. Brooklyn67: I've rode on those buses before when they were at Jamaica and they're not pleasant-They're a slow batch of buses. I remember riding 4879 on the Q17 in the snow last year and that bus was sliding more than Derek Jeter stealing bases.
Look forward to more dogs at QV. Sorry.
BTW: Whatever happened with Orions 122 126 129 131-133 are they still at QV? Are they getting anymore?
#4883 Q46
How long was 4883 at FP? I don't see it on any of the rosters.
Actually 4883 was at Crosstown Storage. It never saw service at FP. Incidentally, 4874, 4882 4885 and 4888 are still at X/town.
Mark
I was told that 4883 was stored at Fresh Pond with their "junk buses", although it never saw service there.
I think 4883 was stored at the future site of Maspeth Depot over the summer. When that facility was cleaned out, it was moved to Crosstown. FP, back in September received 4880, 4881 and 4884 from Maspeth depot. You can find at least one running daily on the B24 or B39.
Don't be surprised if you see the other 4800s from X-town in service at QV soon.
#4883 Q88
Just took a ride on the B71 to the Brooklyn Public Library and was the only rider on the bus. It would seem the TA should extend it to a terminal where it would increase ridership...maybe to Nostrand Ave. A & C line.
Submit a signed petition to the TA. You might also want to enlist the help of those who frequent the Straphangers Campaign at http://www.straphangers.org.
I would not help. I drove it every Saturday of a pick. Them most that I had on the bus was 20 people. Most of the time I had 10 or less. This also was becouse the other driver on the line used to leave 10 or 15min in front of me, when the headway was 30min. The other driver always played game like this. It was so bad that my lunch was 2hours long, I would give hime the bus on time and then I would take it back from him after lunch. He would come up 30 or more min. late. This went on the hole pick. Well this guy is not driving anymore becouse he was cought coving the F/B and having people put there money into a bag next to the F/B. They fired his ass right away.
Robert
tony
How did you know, are you him?
Robert
of course i am not him. he was asking to be fired for years. all i know is he picked right in front of me and i moved up a peg!!!!!
i only worked in gleason for 19 years. tony was one of the weirdest people you would ever meet. his car was a rolling garbage can. he carried a bag with everything he owned all the time. he was like a bomb waiting to explode.
Well it did not help me, I left right before he was fired. Are you look forard to the Orions VII coming to Gleason, They look like a nice bus IMO. By the way what line do you drive, I was mostly on the B16 for the five picks that I was there, I ether had WR "A" or "B" there.
Robert
i work the b41
The B71 has one big load of students going to a particular school in the morning on one particular trip (and presumably returning in the afternoon). Other than that, the line is EXTREMELY light.
Extending the line has been considered. However, it was determined that the number of additional riders that could be generated would not come close to justifying the expense incurred in extending the line.
David
I say extend it along Eastern Pkwy as a supplement for the IRT subway. Wait a minute, I forgot the B45 is only two blocks away. Still, extend it to Utica Avenue.
hey they already extended it a few years ago. it use to terminate at grand army plaza!!!!!
i need info on 1995 flxble buses. If you guys want to see pictures of the buses here in puerto rico feel free to ask me for some. But please tell me where i can find a site for flxble bus company. i know they went bankrupt back in 1996but please help me
john
Still around...In China. Here's a short cut and paste article.
Flxible changed ownership several times. In 1970, Rohr Industries became the owner. In 1978 Grumman Allied Industries purchased Flxible and finally in 1983 General Automotive Corporation (GAC) became the owner. In 1995, the Flxible Corporation ceased operations, and their assets were liquidated. In its years of existence, Flxible was a dominant bus manufacturer in the US.
The 1960s Flxible coach design continued in production in Mexico by Dina until the 1980s. Also, an associated company in China called Jiangsu Flxible still produces models using the Flxible name although not all styles are the ones that are seen in American cities.
The 1995 models or before is what i'm looking info for. I know the ones from 1988 got sent to colombia or some 2nd or 3rd country because their operting costs were cheeper than here in puerto rico. Do you know if there is a way to repower some buses from 1995? If you want i can send some pictures of how they look as well as the nova lfs and rts buses. Trust me , not a mjor difference but maybe in facial desing and motor
Thank You Very Much
John
Frankly, I don't see the purpose of having 3 trains end at 71 street, the R train should end at 179th street via local stops, while F trains make all express stops to/from 179th street. And the V and G train can end at 71 street.
when did "V" come out?
The V came along in December '01.
Wayne
December 16 at 6am to be exact
No, the V, a weekday-only route, first entered service on Monday, December 17. The service plan as a whole was in effect as of 12:01am (or so) on December 16.
Frankly, I don't se the purpose of posting train-related stuff on a bus board when there's a perfectly good train board called SubTalk :-)
David
I think you are on the wrong board- this is bus talk
Saw a NABI Articulated at Grosvenor in the new paint scheme. I had just gotten off the train and saw it heading north on Rockville Pike. I am guessing it was out of service since the scheduled J5 was right behind it.
What bus you got on 37 today?
If you must know:
My train was Rohr 1277
My bus was 5340A
Spotted NABI artic 5225 with the new paint scheme at Silver Spring this morning. I think the new paint job looks pretty nice on the artics. The front looks a little odd since the red stripes don't come all the way across the front, at least on this bus. There was a big white space with "Metrobus" in the middle, a la the Orion VI.
I, personally was on Flxible Metro E 4006 on the Z2 and returned on 4043 on the Z8.
Castleton:
all express routes-pull in and pull outs at depots.
S40/S90-Ricmond Av-Richmond Terrace.
S42-
S46/S96-Castleton Av-Jewett ave
S48/S98-Forest Av-Richmond Av
S51/S91-?
S52-?
S53/S93-Castleton Av-Jewett Avenue.
S54-
S57-Ricmond Terrace-Park Av.
S59-Richmod Terrace-Park Av.
S60-pull in/pull out.
S62/S92-Victory Blvd-Richmond Avenue.
S76-?
Yukon:
Express-all pull in/pull outs.
S44,S61,S79,S91,S94-Yukon Garage.
S55/S56-?
Hope this helps.
s62/92 is either pull in pull out or relief at ferry.
Wound up doing some work for my friend in Queens this afternoon, and took the Q13 both diretions. Kudos to CS for keeping scrattchi off the windows of the Orion V that i saw. Mostly caught 200's,500's,600's and one 400(#425)-also saw repainted #511,#561 and #509 today. Looks sharp. Keep up the good work.
Q13
#528-Orion V
#286-Orion V-REPOWERED
Just returned from a vacation in Las Vegas and noticed some new things about CAT. Here are some updates to the Las Vegas posts of a month or two back: CAT seems to have recently received delivery of some New Flyer Low-Floor CNG buses, numbered in the higher 600 series (above the older New Flyer Low-Floor numbers). CAT has a new paint scheme. It looks like they started out with white, with some blue stripes in the middle (front-to-rear), with the CAT symbol thrown in. Then they must have switched to a combination blue and gold stripe. Frankly, I like the old (and still dominent) turquoise and pink scheme. Many of the New Flyer artics have been repainted, along with a few 40 foot New Flyers (both HF and LF). Didn't see any NABI's in the new scheme. The Flxible Metros in the 200 series seem to have disappeared, but I saw a number of Gilligs in the 300 series. The book with timetables, maps, etc., now costs 25 cents, to cut down on people getting one and immediately discarding it. The Flxible Metro model buses are still being sold at the Downtown Transit Center.
Thatnks for the note regarding the new paint scheme....when my wife and I were up there in November, we saw one bus in that new blue and gold scheme and I wondered what was up. I didn't really like it as much as their older teal/purple.....but maybe they figured they were looking too much like Phoenix, Arizona, who also uses teal/purple though nowhere near the same patterns.
Both Valley Metro Transit In Phoenix & Citizens Area Transit In Las Vegas & Laughlin Are operated by ATC Transit Divison Of National Express LTD Of The UK.
Both Valley Metro Transit In Phoenix & Citizens Area Transit In Las Vegas & Laughlin Are operated by ATC Transit Divison...
Actually, that's not entirely true. While the Mafia-related ATC/Vancom does operate all of CAT, Valley Metro's operations are contracted out to numerous private-sector operators. ATC/Vancom does represent a tidy share of the service operated in Phoenix, but numerous other contractors, such as Forsythe and Laidlaw, can stake claims to some Valley Metro routes.
National Express LTD Owns Both ATC/Vancom Transit and Forsythe Transit.
GET THEM FOR ME!!! I HAVE ABOUT 18-how do i get them?????
In an attempt to get a little more computer literate, I will try to post below photos of NABI Low-Floor Buses from CAT Las Vegas in the old and the new schemes. I hope it works!
Whoops!!! Guess it didn't work - sorry about that. Here are the site addresses to get those two photos:
Old scheme:
http://communities.msn.com/thetransitalkcommunity/lasvegascatphotosbysid.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=778
New scheme:
http://communities.msn.com/thetransitalkcommunity/lasvegascatphotosbysid.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=777
(Thank you, TransiTalk!)
i got to ask. the pictures look fantastic. But i recently did a bus order of 2 Road Champs Flexible that Las Vegas does in their colors. I currently own 15 of them in the orignal color. Any word if the ones i am getting will be sporting the new color design?
B36-9102-NOVABUS
[Any word if the ones i am getting will be sporting the new color design?]
My best guess is that your models will come in the old CAT colors. I suspect that, when and if CAT offers a model in their new colors, it will be something in their fleet other than a Flxible (which, as I posted earlier, I believe are all gone). Of course, that assumes they can obtain a model other than a Flxible!
Does anyone have a pic of the MTA bus that is my handle?
I due believe I saw that pic at Transitworld.org. However, somebody told me that website is close or shut down. Try Transitalk.com! They should have it.
Does anyone have the exact routing ----of the shuttle,,in both directions
There is a map on the MTA site,,but it is very very unclear on this lovely webtv thing,,if you know what
I mean
Thanks
Steve
NYC FD
Here it is, should be clearer.
Hmm. I doesn't hit any LIRR stations. You would think it should at least connect with Carle Place, which it comes quite close to.
:-) Andrew
Or Westbury where there is better service.
thank you
Steve
Has the TA ever considered the implementation of an Express Service from anywhere within these areas? The corridor from 65th to 75th as well as Borough Park has no service. I am certain it would be a profitable line, since a good many people in this area are forced to take a local route to a subway.
There are private bus companies that operate in Borough Park. One service operates along 49th Street/50th Street, and another along 65th Street, although I don't recall who they're operated by nor the full route descriptions.
several hasidic outfits operate as charters from borough park to manhattan some using school buses. there is also j hanokov who directly competes with b11 local service.
Yes at one time the TA was going to start an express route along Bay Ridge Parkway but did not get the franchise.
It was given to a new company I believe was called Fiesta Bus and was designated Route BM-15. The company could not operate the route properly and the Bureau of Franchises gave the route to Metro Apple Express which then operated two routes BM 10 along 3rd and 4th Ave and BM-11 which operated along 65th Street.The company also had a route BM -12 which operated along Ft Hamilton Parkway.
Metro Apple Express was once operated by Red and Tan Buses of New Jersey and I believe their original equipment came from them. Metro Apple was then sold to a cmpany Erin Tours which operated several routes from the Rockaways and Kings Plaza to Manhattan.I believe Metro was then sold again and ran into trouble. They had some Blitz rebuilds from the TA(5500's) and then went out of business.
At one time the TA was thinking of reviving the BM-15 route but never did for two reasons lack of express buses and were to store them.
Hope this helps
Thank You
What routes in Rockaway? When?
Sorry i do not recall except these routes were operated under license from New York State and not the Bureau of Franchises which approved all bus franchises until the early 1990's
They had some Blitz rebuilds from the TA(5500's) and then went out of business.
Are any of the TA's Blitz rebuilds still in service anywhere?
What were the exact routes of these busses?
When did it go out of business?
I was checking out CTRABS's website and notice that there are less Express buses in Philadelphia. IS SEPTA going to oredr more express buses or are they just going to keep what they got? Also, those Neoplans.....the ones that were built between 1984-1989....do they sound just like the MTA NYCT's RTS-04 and RTS-06 buses from the 80's because I think they to have that DDEC 6v92TA engine.
The Neoplan "Express" buses aren't really express buses per se. They are more like regular transit buses with blue cushioned seats as opposed to the hard seats seen on the city Neoplans. There have been rumors that SEPTA might try out an MCI D4501 cruiser, but I haven't been able to follow up on that. If SEPTA were to purchase cruisers, they'd be used primarily on the 123 between King of Prussia and 69 St Terminal and on the 124/125 between Center City and King of Prussia.
The Neoplans do have the DDC 6V92TA engine, however the 1986-1989 models (3000-3491 series) have a ZF transmission, while the 1982-1985 Neos (8000-series) have an Allison transmission.
Thank you CTRABS!
I don't really think they sound like the RTSs. They really sound more like Ride-On's Orions Is, or the WMATA 1992 Orion Vs (actually, more like the Vs).
Or like the MTA Orions before they were repowered? Cool. Thank you Basman.
Things seem to be taking shape for the duration of the pick. Here goes:
5817 has been on the 37 instead of 5811 (runs leaving Grosvenor at 13 past the hour).
5340 has been on the other runs except for when we get 5588.
5586 was on the 47 heading from Grosvenor to Parkside at about 7:40. Normally, that run is done by a 99 Gillig. I got a picture of the back.
No NABI sightings today.
I was hoping to see new Orion V's at Silver Spring, but I could only see Gilligs from the Z2 and 8 stop. It sounds like that they are mainly on upper county routes for now.
I saw a lot of MAN artics coming through on the J line. Some of them are in really rough shape. The Neoplans can't come any sooner!!
I did see a WMATA Flxible 30 footer in Ride On colors roaming around but couldn't catch the number.
Last night I caught WMATA Orion V 2161 on the 1E without the route number on the side, similar to what you've been seeing on buses in your neck of the woods.
The new Orions are all up county. I've only seen two buses on three occasions so they aren't really out in large numbers.
I've been cruising through Rockville, but I've still not seen them yet. However, I see WMATA's NABI 5212 (on the 70) in it's new paint job quite often.
Wayne
That new paint job looks great on the NABI's. 5225 was sitting in the pull off area at Silver Spring yesterday morning. It was dirty from the salt that was put on the roads the other day, but otherwise, looking sharp.
Those MAN's look horrible right now. You can see they are ready for replacement, big time!!
I agree, I agree. I don't dislike WMATA's new paint scheme, but I do think the older one was a better fit. However, the NABI's look awesome in it. Those MAN's do appear to be ready for replacement. I guess part of it is that they haven't had a paint job in years. I say this because the Bee-Line MAN's look pretty good and they're being replaced now.
Also I have a picture (not too good) of NABI 5212 that I took a few days ago. I was driving and as I turned off of Georgia Ave I spotted 5212 heading NB. I grabbed my digicam and squeezed off a shot, but I didn't have time to zoom in. I'll send it to anyone who wants a copy.
Wayne
I need to start bringing my camera along with me, too!! I dont' see a whole lot of buses on my way to the office since the 1 line here in VA only runs about every 30 mins. for each line.
The National Building Museum has an exhibit on public transporation starting tomorrow. I was thinking of checking it out. It runs until October for anyone interested.
I just happened to have mine that day because someone at work wanted to see it. However, 95% of the time I'm not carrying it.
Wayne
"I say this because the Bee-Line MAN's look pretty good and they're being replaced now."
They going out Fast and they still running around. Now the 7 Line see's MAN's only on Short Turn Trips doing Rush Hours and sometimes to New Rochelle(WHOLE ROUTE). The 42 is seeing some MAN's on some trips like today there was a MAN on the 42 at around 1 PM going up Main St to New Rochelle Metro North Station. There was a MAN on the 62 this Morning and there's Neopalns on the 60 Line doing Rush Hours.
Wow - I'd better get my pics fast. The B/O's are probably more than ready for them to go - as they accelerated pretty slowly. It's hard keeping up when you no longer live the NYC area. Can you still find MAN's on the 21/20-X/21???
Wayne
The J2 might be a good place to find them. I must say, they were fun buses to ride.
Thanks, but I was referring to Bee-Line MAN's.
Wayne
There's still some MAN's out there from Bee Line. Those are still running on the 20/21 LTD Lines and also sometimes on the 40/41 LTD Lines,60 Line,and 62 I-95 Express Lines. They be gone by Late Febuary to Early March.
BTW. The Highest I saw of the NEOPLAN AN460 Artics where #523. It was running the 7 Line today. I LOVE THEM! They sound sweet with the DD60 Series Engine.
In the times of NABIs losing their black trim I saw something I never thought I would see again. A black strip NABI still retaining it's SEPTA logo in the back window. Midvale's 5203, operating on the L, was seen with this. This is one of the very few, if not the only one, NABIs with this logo. If, when the NABIs are retired, SEPTA wants to preserve a NABI as a museum bus, even though that would be way into the future, this is the bus they should keep. This way, people in the future would remember, or learn, the days when these buses first arrived in a beautiful new paint scheme and look for SEPTA vehicles. Long live the black trim (although it probably won't last for very long).
I have a pic with (I believe) #5254 still with that logo on the window...if you want to see it, e-mail me at carlwal@hotmail.com and I will dish it out of my files.
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...Cruising the Northeast Fare-Free!
I guess there are more around than I thought. I also saw Frontier's 5334 (I think that's the number) with the logo
yesterday, I saw a driver for the 27 wearing this jacket saying "Allegheny Bad boys" with a picture of an articulated on it. Do all the depots do this? If so, that'd be awesome.
The jackets aren't uniform. They're ordered and paid-for by employees. Actually, they're available to anyone who wants one (not just employees), with any printing you wish.
There are a few guys who make rounds at the depots on occasion who take orders for jackets, and other related wares.
This morning, I got 5584, the lowest number I've seen to date. It had no ads and smelled very new, kinda like an airplane (awful smell). At one point in Cabin John Park, we went over a bump and a window fell open, other than that, the ride was uneventful. Also, those Balios signs are bright! I also saw 5886 on the 47 again and 5114 has the updated destination signs for the 6.
That great Orion quality!!
Actually Orions are very solid buses. The Orions we have over here in WA are in great shape. Very solid buses.
The newer ones that WMATA have, the 2100-2200 series, feel very solid as well, actually. The Ride On ones, especially the older 5500 series, look like they will fall apart at the next pot hole they hit.
Other observations made today is Orion VI 2004 still had the flag instead of the rear advertisement. Nice to see them on some of the buses.
Also an Arlington Transit bus, known as "ART" has a flag in its back window with a message underneath. "Proud to Be an American".
there where about 2 of them #511 and #513.its was about 1:45 on the 42 new rochelle.
I saw 502 on the line near CCY in the Bronx.
Robert
I saw #513. BUT it was not on the 42 Line. It was on the 7 Line when I saw #513 at about 1:15 PM going to New Rochelle Train Station
when i saw it it was testing .it said driver training
Does anyone think they are too bright? I don't like them as much. Also, they take way too long to change between readings. On the 47, it must be twice as long as on the old LEDs for the sign to change between GROSVENOR and PARKSIDE. Wouldn't the assumtion be a easier to read sign could be read faster and change faster or do I just read much faster than the average commuter?
Are we talking Balios signs, or the Luminator Horizon signs?
The agency where I work recently got a new order of buses with the Luminator Horizon signs. Yes, they WERE way too bright. To the point where a driver could operate the bus without headlights at night!!! But they have been adjusted somehow, and are now at a decent volume, so they don't blind motorists coming the opposite direction on a bus route.
Whatever is on the new Ride-On Orion Vs. I would imagine they are the same as on the new Ford Cutaways, pictures are on my website and you can go straight to the Ride-On section by going to www.geocities.com/otprideonpics/rideon.htm. The photos of the cutaways are on the last page or 2nd to last page.
To clarify, those are Ford E450 chassis with Champion cutaway bodies. I don't think the signs are too bright -- it's actually kind of refreshing to see a sign you can read in the bright noonday sun -- but I've only seen one or two of these units, back in late December when I was home.
C
The couple that I've seen, particularly WMATA Orion V 4309 and a DASH Gillig were bright, but they were very readable. I've never seen them change though. The ones in Baltimore don't seem as bright.
>>> Does anyone think they are too bright? <<<
Possibly they should be dimmed somewhat at night, but they are great for quick identification of the destination on a bright sunny day. They also make it certain that a bus is coming when it is still so far away that you cannot make out the outline of the vehicle as a bus rather than a truck.
Tom
Too bright? The last time I was in Baltimore, I felt the Ballios signs on the 99xx and 00xx series NABIs were difficult to read in direct sunlight. However, at night, they aren't too bright to the point of causing problems.
The TwinVision All-LED signs (such as those on the SEPTA New Flyers)have some of the same visibility issues as the Ballios signs. I will say, though, that they are a major improvement over the TwinVision LeDot signs on the Neo artics and ElDorados.
Ironically, the better the visibility is outside, the harder these LED signs are to read. The new EMTA New Flyer D35LF 01XX buses have this sign and on one sunny Sunday afternoon, I could have sworn the bus was running with a blank sign, until it got about 100 feet from me. I still think it is a great sign however. The only complaint I have is that I wish they would change faster. Since the front signs don't support dual lines, I have concerns especially at PAT that a sign that has 6 readings will not be able to complete the sequence fast enough to be useful. Sure it's bright and visible but what's the use if people are only seeing less than half a reading?
As far as the Twin Visions LeDot sign goes, it is a rip-off of the Luminator MAX 3000 W/LED Illumination. The EMTA New Flyer C35LF 00XX buses have these and the only difference is that it changes/refreshes MUCH slower and if you look closely the dots are a slightly different shape. Basically, they took a Luminator flip dot and cut a small bit of the top right corner off at a sharp angle. This is virtually impossible to tell unless you are right up close staring at the dots. Also, the LED dots that do the illuminating are slightly bigger and more round on the Twin Visions version. Make no mistake about it, it's a rip-off from Luminator.
What exactly is the Luminator Horizon anyways? I'm assuming it's another all LED Destination Sign but it doesn't seem nearly as popular as Twin Visions is atleast in PA. Anybody got any pics of this Luminator Horizon?
The newest SEPTA and EMTA orders have Twin Visions and the next PAT order will have Twin Visions too. Beaver County Transit Authority also has some new coaches with Twin Visions.
The signs on the Internationals are actually from TwinVision, not Ballios. The TwinVision LED signs have a font almost similar to a computer font (I think it's Arial).
OK. My roll of film with the Orions is nearing completion so I hope to have it online within 4-8 weeks at the latest.
Which picture did you look at? If you didn't see all of them, they are on both the last and 2nd to last page. You can barely read the one on 5202.
I got some more of the 5200 series coming on the next roll, I got a pic of one at Grosvenor the morning of the freak ice storm.
Of the cutaway bus pictures (Int'l and Ford) I saw 5101, 5202 and 5209. I agree with you on the sign for 5202.
Those are the only cutaways I have online at the moment. 5202 and 5101 look the same to me.
I have a few questions, thanks in advance for answering any or all.
1. When did 100th Street close?
2. What routes were there at this time?
3. When did the M79 move from Amsterdam to Westside (now Quill)
4. When did Manhattanville open?
5. Where did the routes that operate from there come from (namely the M2, 3, 4, and 5)?
100th Street closed at the same time as Walnut when Michael J Quill then known as West Side opened in the spring of 1998. The following routes were assigned M86,M96/106,X90/X92,M101/M102/M103.
The M79 was transferred at the same time from Amsterdam to Quill
The M2 was transferred at the same time from Hale to Manhattanville.
Manhattanville reopened in the mid 1990's sorry i do not remember when. It was built on the old 132nd Street Depot site.
The M3 came from Hale i believe,The M 4 did come from Hale and the M5 was in Amsterdam.
I recall that the rebuilt Kingsbridge reopened shortly afterwards.
Hope this helps.
Thank You
Do you know when the M79 was transfered from 100th Street to Amsterdam and why? It doesn't make all that much sense to me to move the 79 since 100th Street is much closer to the route than Amsterdam is.
The M79 was never in 100th Street. It was in the old 54 th Street Depot. Prior to the late 1980's the M79 was known as the M17-79th Street Crosstown. The M 17 was in 100th Street I belive till 1972 when it was transferred to 54th Street as part of the changes when Hudson Depot replaced the old 12th Street Depot.
Thank You
I clearly remember seeing the apple logos on the depot stickers. Are you sure?
Yes the M-79 was in 54th Street until it closed then was transferred to Amsterdam until Quill opened in 1998
Thank You
At some point -- I don't recall exactly when -- the M3 was out of Amsterdam. The M1, M2, and M4 were out of 146 (Hale). At the time, the M5 was from Kingsbridge.
But I can vouch for you on the M79, having ridden it (and its M17 predecessor) regularly from 1986 to 1992. It was at 54 when the depot labels were first applied. Around 1990, 54 closed, so the M79 went to Amsterdam. It moved to West Side (Quill) on opening.
On the Orions (example, Q76), to the left of the steering wheel there are some buttons on the floor. What are they for?
Those two switches are turn signals. The drive activates them by pressure(stepping on them). I guess it takes the load off since they dont have to activate a signal lever.
The Flxible Metros I drove and most likely most other modern day buses have them as well. On the Flx Metro, there was a third one that controlled the high beams. I used to just rest my left foot in between the buttons for the left and right turn signals. Once in awhile, I'd forget to take my foot off of it, but it did make it easier to keep both hands on the wheel. The worst was when one of the drivers before me spilled some kind of soda and it was sticky and caused the turn signal button to stay down so I had to kick it to pry it back up.
Floor mounted turn signal switches are nothing new, they have been around since fishbowl days. A third button, just a little back from the turn signals, would cause all lights on the outside to flash.
Peace,
ANDEE
>>> Those two switches are turn signals. The drive activates them by pressure(stepping on them). <<<
Are the switches push button switches that are activated by pressing them and releasing them, and turned off by pressing and releasing a second time, or does the driver have to hold the switch down for as long as he wants the turn signal ro remain flashing?
Tom
Those are pressure switches. The driver steps on them and keeps their foot down on the switches to engage the signals. Releasing pressure will cause the spring loaded switch to pop up and therefore, cancelling out the signal.
The switch in front of the steering column is the high-beam switch. It unlike the turn signals, is a push-on/push-off type switch.
On Orions used by MTA Long Island Bus, there is a third foot switch. located on the left side adjacent to the wall; this is for the high/low beams, high beams are activated and held by pressing, returned to low beams by pressing again.
As a historical note, on the 1970 Flxible New Look buses (the last of which was retired in 1997), there was also a footswitch in front of the steering column. Its purpose was to temporarily disconnect the air conditioning system from the engine when the bus needed extra power, such as when ascending hills.
Were there any on the flxible buses from 1970 1972 1974 buses???? Where can i find pics from flxible>?
john
jcchasez_pr@starmedia.com
>>> Where can i find pics from flxible <<<
Try a Google search with the word "flxible."
Tom
bUT A PAGE UNDER CONSTRUCTION KEEPS COMING OUT. i'LL TRY TODAY WISH ME LUCK
THANKS
On the PAT Transit buses in Pittsburgh, there is a fourth switch on the floor which an operator can push with his/her foot to activate the sanders on the bus. When the button is depressed, sand comes out of nozzles in front of the back tires giving the bus traction in icy conditions. As soon as the foot comes off the button, the sand stops. The Neoplan Low-Floors however don't have sanders, thus they only have 3 switches.
Are the MBTA trackless trolleys in the Cambridge/Harvard Square area still operating seven days a week, or are the electric trolley buses replaced by diesel buses on weekends and holidays? Has the MBTA ordered replacement vehicles for the now rather old current vehicles (which, I believe, are either AMC or New Flyers)? Thanks in advance for any help here.
Are the MBTA trackless trolleys in the Cambridge/Harvard Square area still operating seven days a week, or are the electric trolley buses replaced by diesel buses on weekends and holidays?
The trackless trolleys operate all service Monday through Saturday on routes 71, 72 and 73. All three routes operate buses on Sundays, with route 72 operating as a combined route with route 75 and extended to Belmont Center.
As info, Route 77A is 'officially' rush hours only (through-routed with route 73 and some route 71 trips), although pull-in and pull-out revenue trips to and from North Cambridge carhouse do occur at other times. The MBTA has recently proposed eliminating route 77A and operating route 77 buses as local from North Cambridge to Harvard.
As for new equipment, the MBTA does have 28 low-floor 40' trackless trolleys on order from Neoplan. There has been talk that these new TT's may first be used on the South Boston Transitway portion of the new Silver Line if that line's new diesel/electric dual-mode articulated buses (also on order from Neoplan) are not ready when the line is scheduled to open in late 2003.
Jim D.
I have always wondered how a trackless trolley or trolley bus stays connected to the overhead power. Do the poles expand and contract or or are they of a fixed length?
What happens if they have to swerve to avoid an accident. Does the pole get disengaged and the vehicle lose power? If so how is the vehicle lined up to reset the pole ?
>>> Do the poles expand and contract or or are they of a fixed length? <<<
The poles are a fixed length, but have the ability to swivel side to side. Upward spring pressure and the flanges on the trolley wheel keep it on the wire. If a trolley wheel slips off the wire for any reason, the operator goes to the rear of the coach on the outside where the pull down rope is attached from the boom to the rear of the coach and pulls down against the spring pressure and guides the trolley wheel to a point where it is under the wire and then allows the spring action to lift the wheel back in place.
Tom
but if he is out of range?
Hey There!
In the event that the vehicle strays too far from the reachable radius that the poles are able to connect to, the options depend on the age and serviceability of the vehicle.
1. Most if not all new vehicles will include a system that will enable it to move for a limited distance off an onboard bank of batteries. Depending on the battery capacity and the passenger load, passengers may have to offboard while the reposition move is made, then reboard. This is VERY useful when a coach has to circumnavigate a POLICE or FIRE problem, as otherwise everything just STOPS and waits till it's OVER!
2. Older vehicles probably will not have the backup system, and will require either a "pusher vehicle" to move it or - I suspect these days an unlikely prospect - enough passengers volunteering to push the vehicle to where it can take power (In Bklyn, we did this regularly on the 45 St Johns and the 47 Tompkins when a new driver would blow the route!).
In SF, poles come off all the time, for that reason, drivers always have gloves handy to handle the pole ropes with. Sometimes the bus comes to a stop at a place where for some reason it cannot take power or the pole can't reconnect easily with the wires (such as in a switch), in SF (not flat!) the drivers will let the coach coast until
they can reconnect; or swing the poles to connect with the opposite direction wires and move to a better point then switch back to the correct direction wires.
>>> In SF, poles come off all the time, <<<
They certainly do. On one day there last summer I saw two poles come off at different places for no detectable (to me) reason.
Tom
Nice pictures. Those are interesting looking seats. They look like the material is similar to the cushioned insert seating on the newer NYC-MTA buses, but with larger seats. Also, they look like they are somewhat contoured in shape. Has LACMTA used seats like this in prior orders? If so, are they comfortable?
>>> Has LACMTA used seats like this in prior orders? If so, are they comfortable? <<<
This type of seat is in most of the buses in LACMTA, They are not padded at all, just carpeted to make them non-slip. They are slightly contoured, just a little too narrow to be comfortable when the bus is crowded, and on the NABI they have too little leg room between seats on the forward facing seats.
Tom
these are USSC seats ... the same types of seats that also confort drivers.
These seats are not comfortable. any transit agency ordering these types of seats are doign the public a favorby causing them to get back aches,
eddie a
Nice pics, G!!
(Yes--this is who you think it is) :)
Fred
Very nice!
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
These "Nice" buses are killing off all the flavor filled buses here in LA.
Blue
I have to agree with Blue. Since all these NABIs have been arriving in LA many of the fan favorite buses are being sold off and some, like the 1988 TMCs, with some good years still left in them. The other day I rode NABI 7623 and the seats on these buses stink. If you did not have back problems before you rode that bus, you sure would after.
Andy
As promised, here's the weekday runs that 7560 is assigned to on the Bx28: 6, 10, 23, and 31. run 31 pulls the bus in at about 10:07pm, the bus is then emptied of money, the Orion techs make a once over, then the operator takes the Bus to be "fueld" at the Queens Surface Depot near the whitestone bridge.(on OT)
7560 is a test bus, it won't go into actual service once the order is completed, the only problem to date is that when the bus goes thru the bus wash, it leakes. I rode it today to queens surface, and when we went thru the wash, both front and rear doors leaked, as some of the windows.
An intresting addition to the bus is automatic ADA annoucements, and P/R announcements, such as "Please, no eating, drinking, or smoking on the bus". The bus is governed to 40 MPH, so we were being passed by almost everyone.
finally, I spoke to the Orion tech who said that the TA order for Orion 7 will also include hybrid buses built on the same chassis and body as 7560.
Today 7560 was on Run 15, which was relieved by 19 at 12:44. I was on it, pics up soon.
Alot of people in the bronx except for the students at Bronx Science know of the X32 existance as a bus line. It doesn't show up as a bus line on the bus map, its not even mentioned in the back. It only has a total of 3 trips daily from queens, and three trips to Queens. This line can be a great thing if hooked up to Fordham Plaza and they gave it more trips. Like 1 every 30 minutes, or every hour. A Bronx-Queens Express line that links fordham to Jamaica or to Flushing would be good, it could take crowds of people who take the 4 to the 7 and elimante the 90 minute trip or the need to go through manhattan.
So when was the bus line created? Was it created solely for the students at Bronx Science?
It's called the Q44 Limited.....they shot down extending it to Fordham sometime ago..
Not sure what bus map you're referring to, but the X-32 is listed as far back as the 1999 Queens Bus Map in description as well as routed on the map diagram. It's listed under "Queens Express Service" headed Queens/Bronx Express (school days only) and is solely a service for Bronx High School fo Science.
It doesn't run on holidays or when school is closed.
X-32 Springfield Blvd to 205th St/St Paul Ave at 6:54am and 6:59am
X-32 165th Street Term to 205th St/St paul Ave at 6:43am
X-32 Bell Blvd/23rd Ave to 205th St/St Paul AVe at 7:00am
In the morning, there are 4 runs (3 of which are Queens Village extras). In the afternoon, there are 2 runs from Bronx High School of Science, combining the Jamaica/Sprignfield buses into one trip.
I know, but on bronx bus maps, it doesn't even get put on the map or get mentioned
Because it's a "Queens" service. It only runs one-way in peak directions. For Bronx residents to use the X32, they'd have to ride with the PM trips towards Queens and stay until the following morning to return to the Bronx.
:-)
you say this is an express route for bhs students what is the fare? nyc students pay on express buses i thought.
They do pay on the X32.
It's been around since at least the early 80's. I used to see it when I was in high school with 8800 series GMC T6H-5305A's from FLU depot.
Wayne
I thought the 8800's were only on the X51 and the Q44VP.
FLU used any of it's express buses on the Q32 run. Sometimes they'd send a local bus too, but the usual was an express bus. Later the express RTS at FLU also servered this route.
Wayne
This old dog, (1984 GMC RTS-04 T8J-214) only one of nine still active in the NYCT fleet, was assigned to me yesterday. It's the oldest bus in the 126th Street Depot fleet. Surprisingly, the bus ran remarkably well. It just returned recently from a stay at one of the CMF's. (I believe it was Zerega but don't quote me.) A new coat of paint has been applied to the exterior and the interior has been cleaned up a bit. All of the lights, signals, switches and instruments were working properly. Some work was obviously done to the powertrain since the bus now accelerates well. When it first came to 126 it could barely get out of it's own way. The brakes and steering also performed well.
Judging by # 3469's freshening up, I would have to say that NYCT is definitely intent on sticking to their pledge of not purchasing any new local transit buses for the year 2002. It appears they will try to squeeze all of the life they can out of their aging RTS's.
I haven't driven anything other than a 1999 Nova or repowered TMC in over 2 years. I'm curious to know if during these overhauls, maintenance is installing that annoying front door safety device (along with the whining 'alarm') to these older buses?
I fondly remember the 2 best buses I ever drove:
RTS #1230 out of (then) Jackie Gleason.
RTS #3220 with a newly installed engine (which was promptly scrapped just a few short weeks later).
I wouldn't call what # 3469 received an overhaul. NYCT basically did enough work on the bus to keep it in service at least through the end of this year. It's more like patch and paint job. Thankfully no annoying front door safety device has been retrofitted onto the bus.
3220 saw life at hudson pier as a training bus for new students for quite awhile.
what it really means is look for nyct to soon scrap this bus.
That's a rather cynical way of looking at things, but MTA L.I. Bus does exactly the same. Nice to know they're not the only depot to do everything bassackwards.
I saw bus #7560 operating on the Bx28 earlier this afternoon, after driving most of the length of the line and worrying that maybe it was being used on weekdays only. I don't know what run it was on, but I spotted it leaving Jerome and Mosholu towards Co-op City around 12:20 PM. Frankly, I thought it looked very nice.
I SAW YOU!!! You were standing in the middle of the parkway, it was on Run 15, me and John P. were waving to you, but you didn't see us. I will make a new post when I get the resized pics up from the bus.
I should have figured someone from BusTalk would be on 7560! Guess I was concentrating so much on getting a few pictures as it drove by, I didn't bother trying to look into the bus. Sorry I missed you!
A person from the MTA and I met up on the east side today to go ride 7560. He had the Weekend schedule for the Bx28 cut down to every run's schedule, PO and relief time. He called the dispatcher yesterday and he said it would run on Run 15. So 15 was scheduled to leave White Plains Road and Gunhill Road at 11:27. Sure enough, it arrived then on the dot. We took it to the last stop, 192st (arrived there at 11:51), stayed on for the layover (9 minutes) and took it to the 5 train stop. This weekend, the 5 was on a G/O. The 180-Dyre was served by two shuttle trains. We got on the R62A one, (at the time, there was a redbird shuttle as well). 6841 was the highest car I saw in Unionport. We saw two people at the Bedford Park Blvd bridge taking pics, one of which my friend knew. Then we saw Sid from NJ on the Mosholu Parkway median. Enough of my ramblings, here's the pics (click on the ones with medium in the filename for the resized ones)!
Work Train pics at 149-GC, some R142 shots, and 7560!!!
Very nice...you REALLY went all out to get so many pics...I will give you that..I only gave a view of the Orion VII front, back, interior, and that was it...see the post labeled "Cleanairbus's Orion VII pics!!!!!(LONG POST)" and you'll see what I did, if you haven't already...
Carlton
Cleanairbus
CTP Webmaster
The Cleanairbus Transit Page
Thanks man, I saw your pics, yours were nice too!
Nice pics!
If it wouldn't be too much trouble, having thumbnails would be very much appreciated. I don't know if anyone else minds having to click each and every image but it gets tedious after awhile.
Aye, it's an IIS server on my comp, I'll do what I can!
One thing that I saw in the Pictures was that the F/B base was not the TA type Vack base, it was like the Pirivet companys were they put a probe onto the box black dot and remove the coin volt from the base. Also how dose tyhe driver get into to seat with the wall between him and the seat. I would think that the F/B would be updated before the rest come in.
Robert
The little thing between the wheel base and the farebox swings outwards.
Hey Clayton, great pictures & i know there was a G.O that early saturday morning while going to work at Brooklyn Bridge. Keep up your work Clayton.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT
Thanks, not to mention that my friend had a delay in meeting up with me, as there was some sort of fire at the 4/5 borough hall at around 9:10ish.
Nice shots, Clayton! Thanks for using PSP to resize the photos . . . it's a convenience when there are no thumbnails not to have to load the full 1MB file to check stuff out.
7560 has a nice-looking interior (for a low-floor bus -- that's not saying much, but it's a definite improvement over WMATA's O-VIs). I bet the operators appreciate the power mirrors!
On to the exterior: I kinda like the assymetry of the rear, where the engine grille line dips by the sign display, but overall, I think the exterior design of this bus is pretty sloppy. Between the seemingly arbitrary placement of window banks and blackout trim and the cheap-looking cutline behind the front sign display -- not the best-looking bus Orion's ever produced. The varying beltline is a stylistic problem with all low-floor buses, and no manufacturer has yet dealt with it satisfactorily. It may be as simple as using blackout trim or the paint scheme to force a transition between the two levels, but I think the issue deserves some consideration by bus designers.
Chris
Thanks man! I didn't use psp to resize em, I opened em up, indexed them, but I found out I couldn't do a mass resize. So i took it over to my XP machine, ctrl-a, right click and resize to medium. Easy as that!
Anyone out there who collects model buses? I have a pretty good collection of British models, and
wondered if anyone in the States had a similar interest in collecting buses. I have several variationson Leyland Atlanteans (Newcastle, Birmingham, Glasgow), Bristol, AEC, Routemaster, etc. I only collectcollect on one scale, that is 1:76, and every model is an exact replica of what used to run on the
streets of Britain. I used to be a bus driver too, so if there are like-minded people out there, then
please feel free to leave me a message. All too often, bus enthusiasts in the U.K are regarded as
nerds....which is a pretty bad press in my view.
Anyway look forward to some replies.
I have a collection of the same buses...as well as a vast collection of American prototypes in different scales. I still drive transit buses.
There is a Yahoo Club out there for those interested in the British bus models....."diecastbuses" is the name of the club.
The Good:
It seems apparent that when NJT improved the 413 (Phila-Burlington via Mt. Holly) weekend schedule from 90-120 minutes to hourly on weekends, the ridership apparently doubled or tripled. Today my trips from Camden To Moorestown Mall has been full both ways. The trip from Moorestown was almost SRO. It is a testament to the idea of putting out a logical, and easy to understand and plan around schedule. Now only if they would improve the weekday schedule, especially nights after 7 pm.
The Bad:
I hope I don't see the ASSHOLE who blew by me at 6:45 pm on 1/26/02, on the 403 going to Erial/Turnersville, at the White Horse Pike and Newton Lake Dr. bus stop. Now I admit the stop is kinda of dark and hard to see, but it is ABSOLUTELY NO GODDAMN EXCUSE TO BLOW BY ME LIKE THAT. ANYONE WITH A HALF-DECENT SET OF HEADLIGHTS WOULD SEE A GUY WAVING HIS ARMS AT THE BUS, PLEDING IT TO STOP AND PICK ME UP. YOU SCREWED MY TRIP TO THE SUPERMARKET AND RUINED MY EVENING. NOW AFTER THIS POST, I'M GOING TO THE NJT WEBSITE AND TEAR THEM A NEW ASSHOLE.
Thanks for letting me vent my spleen.
It's happened with LI Bus too. Once I had a 171 pass me by on route 4. Fortunately now alot of 171's stop at the mall now, so no having to wait along rt4.
Definately write NJ Transit.
From what I've seen though, the 171 route drivers are excellent and don't pull the crap LIB drivers do.
In the late 60s and early 70s, my dad worked in Spring Valley NY, and if he was in no big rush, or the car was in the shop, it didn't bother him at all to take the Rockland Coaches (Red and Tan) 11A or 11C from Teaneck. Prior to this job managing a store for his cousin, he drove for Public Service out of the now-gone Lake Street Garage in Newark, and he kept his ATU card for a while since it was still valid.
One morning in the early 1970s, he was at the Teaneck Road bus stop on Route 4 west. For those unfamiliar, this was until recently, one of the few stops on 4 that had a full pulldown out of the right lane - the others were only added about 5 years ago. Dad saw the 11A approaching and waved it down. Not only did the bus not pull to the stop, it never even slowed down out of the right lane. About 20 minutes later, the 11C arrived and picked him up with no problem. After paying the fare, Dad asked the driver if the 11A was still going to be there in Spring Valley when they arrived. 11C driver replied that it should be. (Back then, the 11C also used Kinderkamack - this was long before the 11C was merged with the 25.)
Got to the Spring Valley terminal, and yep, the 11A was still there, driver in the bus alone. Dad got off the 11C, opened the door to the 11A, shoved his ATU card in the guy's face and said "don't you EVER pass by me like that again!"
Needless to say, Dad didn't even have to wave for that 11A any longer; it pulled in like a guided missile, with the door directly in front of him when the bus stopped.
Yea stick it to 'em for the passing by just like that guy who did almost the same on the N21 in Great Neck.
That happened to me about a month ago on the 113. I was waiting at Long and Church Lns in Upper Darby, when 5134 (11 block) passed by me, despite the fact that I was flagging him down.
Can anyone tell me why the idea of using trolley buses on Long Island never caught on, either past, present and/or future? These buses would be a gem since they are quiet, they don't pollute and are quick in traffic and also can go up quite quickly on hills, which Long Island does have. I know that regular trolleys did roam the streets in some locals, but I never once heard of any trolley buses being used in service.
Maybe the ridership doesn't make it lucrative enough to run that many buses?
The private bus predecessors of LI Bus were established in the 1920's at the same time the private auto first became a factor. The fluid, rapidly developing nature of Long Island suburbs made fixed surface transit services (streetcar or trolley bus) unfeasible. Buses at least had the flexibility to change services quickly. Remember too that Long Island has significant heavy commuter rail service.
Using hindsight, it's probably a safe bet that trolley buses would not have worked well on Long Island. Heavy private car dependence means that bus service became the choice mode primarily for transit dependent persons (non-drivers).
The first significant electric trolley buses ran in Philadelphia in the early 1920's - and this mode reached its peak in the early 1950's. So by the time the trolley bus was perfected, the motor bus had already become the dominant surface transit mode in newly developing suburbs such as Long Island.
CNG has effectivley killed off any future hopes of trolleybus systems for the most part.
In LA we lost the proposed ETB system in favor of alternate fuels.
Blue
LI Bus is now predominantly CNG buses with an aim to be 100% CNG when its current oldest buses are replaced.
Keep in mind that the problem with any ETB system is that a heavy capital investment is required in infrastructure (overhead wires and substations) before one bus leaves the depot. So this means the routes should be heavy haulers and will remain heavy haulers. Also, you need a reliable, inexpensive source of electric power. LI Bus has maybe a half dozen routes that qualify as heavy haulers, but "reliable and inexpensive electric power" is something that we have historically lacked. So that's another reason for the absence of ETB's on Long Island.
The reason San Fran MUNI's system will survive is that they are a self sufficent utility with thier own power suppy from teh Hetch-Hetchy dam.
The end may have came year earlier if it wernt for this fact.
Blue
Hi folks,
Could anyone tell me if NJ Transit's Flxible Metros in the 3700 series are using a ZF transmission with a Cummins M11 or...?
Also, for 2600 series RTS, are they using a Cummins ISC and Allison B400 transmission?
Is it really hard to get a photo of a particular bus in NJ Transit's fleet?
Thanks for answering..
The Flxible Model 40102-6C8 "METRO-D" (17xx, 18xx, 19xx (Except 1966-1976) and the 37xx Series) are all using Cummins C8.3 Engines with a ZF Ecomat HP-590 Transmission
The Nova Model T80-206 "RTS A" (26xx and 27xx Series) are using the exact same combo as the METRO-Ds.
The Nova Model T80-206 "RTS B" (10xx, 11xx, 12xx, 13xx, 14xx, 15xx and 25xx Series) are using the Cummins ISC Engine with a ZF Ecomat HP-592 Transmission.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Rockland Coaches B/O
Is it really hard to get a photo of a particular bus in NJ Transit's fleet?
The only real tricky photos to get are of the artics. The 2-door suburban artics are really hard to find, unless you're in the Union City/Fairview area during rush hour. The 3-door artics are used on the 13 line, which operates along Broad Street in Newark.
As for the others (Novas, Flxibles, and MCIs) they are easy to find throughout the state.
I just spent all day Friday and Saturday reading all of the posts of Bus Talk. BIG AL, Q5 Merrick and T-Drive Cruiser are right. All the information is all in the previous posts. Anything from Grumman 870's to GMC New Looks to the Orions and so on. It's pretty good....hopefully this will eliminate all repeated questions.
Can someone please explain why when the NYC TA purchased the MCIs, they didn't put the amber lights next to the destination signs for emergencies like all the other buses, even the Orion VII?
Perhaps they have the marker lights pulse in an EMERGENCY situation as we do here in LA.
Blue
I just saw an MCI with the emergency sign going today and the only thing flashing were the signal lights.
BIG AL
Hello,
I have a several bus engine sounds for sharing.
The first one is Samtrans 646, Gillig Phantom C21D102N4, that has a Cummins M11 and Allison B400. This is why I first started to like GP. Because this is one of my earlier sound clips, the volume might not be high enough and I would suggest to use a headphone. The route was 250 and the date was 11-21-00.
Please right click and save 646
The second one is also a Samtrans GP, but it has been rebuilt in 2000 with a new Cummins ISM and Allison B400 replacing the old Detroit Diesel 6V92 and Allison HT748. I was standing at a stop sign when 967 on Rt.250 (12-18-00) approached. At 5.0 seconds of the clip, there is a "chi" sound, I think that is the retarder sound of the B400.
967
The third one is an 2001 Orion V Vallejo Transit 4414 on Route 7(12-27-01). It has a Cummins ISM and ZF HP590. I just got a reply from Trevor that the NJ Transit' Metro Ds and RTS are using same transmission with a different Cummins engine. Could anyone compare this with NJs and tell me the differents?
4414
There are more sounds from different bus to come when NA Transit and its subdivisions get back to normal.
Stephen
Do you have a pic of that Orion from Vallejo Transit?
ooh, here is the photo of 4414.
ooh, here is the photo of 4414.
I loved the sound clip of the Orion above. That Cummins sounded pretty good, better than the crappy L10G's we have at LIB.
I like that paint job. Are they going to Repaint the buses that are in the OLD Paint Job?
Sorry, I don't go there very often but it would be nice if Vallejo Transit does that to other buses.
Where can I purchese a NYC city bus? Also what is the fuel economy of a RTS and Orion?
Try Transit Sales, ABC, or Nimco.
try flxible. those are pretty good
Two questions about them.
1) Is it possible to request for one to be built at a bus stop?
2) What do the white numbers on the side mean?
There are very few in the Glen Cove area. I think the towns are responsible for bus shelters, and Glen Cove doesn't give a rat's ---
about bus riders.
The NYC Department of Transportation is responsible for the installation and maintenance of citywide bus shelters. The numbers on each shelter identify them to the DOT and to "Shelter Express", the sublet franchise that maintains them.
You can probably find more information at the nycdot website.
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
Beautiful shots, Trevor, particularly the first one! Did you take them with a digital camera or conventional?
I bet the Bx28 drivers get pissed at having their photo taken every day by various BusTalkers . . . LOL!
Chris
Digital, on Manual Settings. Actually the driver's and dispatchers are quiet cool about because they understand, its like the new puppy of the Bronx.
Regards,
Trevor
That's good to hear . . . I've gotten some squirrelly looks in the past from B/Os when taking bus photos, so, being shy, I usually try to take the photos when the bus is sitting unoccupied on layover. When's the remainder of the Orion VII order due for delivery? Will there be any delay of service entry because of acceptance testing?
C
Great Shot!!! Trevor & i like the night shot. This remind me that this bus is not ugly & it great. Any way we haven't chat for long time & i been busy working so hope to chat with you very soon.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT
he he he!
That thing looks like something I made with Legos when I was 10!
Great pics, BTW.
Could you please add some contrast to these photos.
It took over an hour to..........
Get a quicker connection. I'm running at 56K and it all loaded in about 10-15 seconds.
Buh Bye!
Trevor
mr blue is right. u need more contrast. also it took me over 4 minutes to download your ehh..pics
Again, Slow Connection, it must be a California thing, Like I said my previous post......It only took me 20-30 seconds and I ONLY have a 56K Connection that rings in a 50,667 BPS.
Thank You
Trevor
Hey Trevor - I put the Orion VII on my website as Picture of the Month. Is that OK? I sent a link back to your page.
Works for me.......No Problemo!
Trev.
I have had no problems over here downloading these pic's. All four came through in about 1min 30 secs.
For those asking for more contrast... you are obviously new to night photography. The camera lens can't "see" any better than you can in the datk, and is limited to available light. Raising the gamma settings too high will wash out the details of the object in the picture.
As for download speed, like Trevor, I can get the pics in about 30 seconds on a 56K dial-up, and I do not use any "internet accelerator" programs..
you guys are totally missing the point of the "add more contrast" comment...think about it Trevor.
How about you californian's explain it?! Huh! Becuase now your just aggrivating me!
Trevor
Trev, I really hope they don't mean post some west coast pics. I guess they don't realize you're taking these pictures real-time and you actually LIVE here in metro NYC/NJ. I guess posting to a board at the nycsubway.org website eludes a few of them (but not all, there are a few Californians who understand).
Now - why would I expect people on the east coast to post west coast photos on a NY BB?
Evidently, there are a few new yorkers that are a few french fries short of happy meal...
Posted by kcram3500 on Mon Feb 4 10:33:43 2002,
Trev, I really hope they don't mean post some west coast pics. I guess they don't realize you're taking these pictures
real-time and you actually LIVE here in metro NYC/NJ. I guess posting to a board at the nycsubway.org website eludes a few of them (but not all, there are a few Californians who understand).
Yeah and the more than enough californians running around with no film in thier camera!
you guys are totally missing the point of the "add more contrast" comment...think about it Trevor.
No, there are a LOT of New Yorkers who have better things to do than play "guess what I'm thinking" over the internet.
I heard these two kids talking in a Subway restroom yesterday.
One says "Whats choclate moose" the other says "Its good it tastes allot like choclate pudding"
Quoted from the great Lionel Dobie
No...I'm not going to explain it. I put down the hint - you fail to pick up on it.
Posted by Mr.Blue on Mon Jan 28 02:07:54 2002,
in response to LUCKY 7s: Twilight and Night with the Monstrosity, posted by T-Drive Cruiser on Sun Jan 27 21:48:09 2002.
Could you please add some contrast to these photos.
---
Posted by gsoma on Sun Feb 3 11:07:28 2002,
in response to Re: Add some contrast PLEASE Re: LUCKY 7s: Twilight and Night with the Monstrosity, posted by kcram3500 on Sun Feb 3 00:17:32 2002.
you guys are totally missing the point of the "add more contrast" comment...think about it Trevor.
---
Posted by T-Drive Cruiser on Sun Feb 3 21:32:11 2002,
in response to Re: Add some contrast PLEASE, posted by gsoma on Sun Feb 3 11:07:28 2002.
How about you californian's explain it?! Huh! Becuase now your just aggrivating me!
And I will continue to fail to pick it up, as I don't have time for games.......Good Daaaaaaaaaaaay!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
why are you getting upset about it?
Posted by T-Drive Cruiser on Mon Feb 4 20:59:40 2002, in response to Re: Add some contrast PLEASE, posted by gsoma on Mon Feb 4 20:50:25 2002.
And I will continue to fail to pick it up, as I don't have time for games.......
Good Daaaaaaaaaaaay!
Who says I'm getting upset, I'm just plainly stating that I don't have time for games.
Now if I was upset there'd be a paragraph or so full of words and 9 times out of 10 this board would be shut down because of it. When I get mad, Mushroom Clouds Come Into Play!
Good Day!
Trevor Logan
and who says I'm playing games?
wasn't me who said people need more contrast in their photos...
Posted by T-Drive Cruiser on Mon Feb 4 22:21:44 2002
Who says I'm getting upset, I'm just plainly stating that I don't have time for games.
And it sure as hell wasn't me, so why don't BLUE step up to the plate....Whoops I forgot, he only likes the Hit and Run!
T.
I haven't spoken to the person who calls himself "blue" in more than six months - so I wouldn't know. But there is more to this "contrast" thing ... I just can't say exactly what it is.
Yeah - I noticed that "hit and run" thing too on this BB.
I/we? never did learn why he was so pissed off at the fans for riding with me instead of him back in January. Oh whell.
Anyway ...
Posted by T-Drive Cruiser on Tue Feb 5 22:34:06 2002,
And it sure as hell wasn't me, so why don't BLUE step up to the plate....Whoops I forgot, he only likes the Hit and Run!
When I grow up i will be just like you.
:-)
You will never grow up...
You will grow old, bitter and lonely just like your idol ... Mike DeFiliche
Oh wait ... you are already bitter and you are already lonely.
Posted by Mr.Blue on Thu Feb 7 00:43:36 2002
When I grow up i will be just like you.
:-)
OOOOooooooooooo! (Yes, I'm instagating! [Spelling ?])
I don't usually address particular posters, but in this case I'm going to break character.
Guys, if you're going to carry on what is essentially a two- or three-way conversation about what is essentially a personal matter, please do it by e-mail so the rest of us don't have to slog our way through posts that we think actually have something to do with BUSES but really don't.
David
Thank You, I may take that under advisement considering.
T.
Also, now that I think about, it gets a little reptitive sifting through the same post over and over and over and over and over and over again about the same subjects.
Yet, I don't see a bitching about that. No harm David, but find something else to moan about please! Let's get a dose of reality, BusTalk is far from what it really needs to be and what it used to be. Now its just numbed down to rants and raves and filled with Hit & Run Posters.
T.
Slam the west coasteres, yet again.
I'm not dissin but theres something that your missing, touch reality, if its meaning dosent manifest put it to rest.
It takes concentration for fresh communication, and observation to say without speaking.
I am not a King or Queen I am not ruling.
From my point of view, backtrack stop the attack.
This is not poetry that is insanity, simply fantasy, far from reality.
If you want I will simply change the program, then you will simly say DAM!
Blue
Nice shots, what is up with the X83 sign? I know what they have it for but why would they be using it on that bus?
I had a little personal session with the bus and had that sign put up!
That's All!
Trevor
I said it before. What an ugly bus. MY GOD!!!
Well I don`t think the Orion 7 is ugly, nor is it a monstrosity. Although its seen as a Mongrel of bus designs by you guys, seen by Limey eyes, its a Pedigree.
Limey Dave.
It's a mutt.
Orion Front
Flxible METRO-D Windows
New Flyer Front Panel Door and Entrance Door
And I don't know what the hell is up with that ass.
Regards,
Trevor
...And I don't know what the hell is up with that ass.
Gillig?
A Gillig that got left in the microwave too long. Did you check out the route sign "melting" into the rear grille?
C
Yeah; it looks like a postmodern version of the out-of-place fleet number on the Gillig :).
The more I look at that bus, it looks more and more like an Orion than a New Flyer C40LF bus. Nice shots Trevor! Great pics!
People who use buses dont care who make 'sit OR what it looks like. They just want abus to get them from A to B.
Evidently this bus is now owned by Picture Cars. It showed up recently on the NYS Lottery Commercial for their "Crossword" scratch-off game.
Last night it was featured on Sex in the City. The protagonist, Carrie Bradshaw realizes that she is now 35 y/o and has about 1,500 bucks and 100 pairs of shoes as her net worth. She decides to start cutting down on expenses and will take buses instead of cabs. She gets in line at a bus stop. #2606 pulls up with a large ad on its side for her column. Another passenger sees the ad and looks at her and says "honey, YOU have to take the bus ? ".
2606 is owned by Blue Water Bus Center.
Hmm... maybe this scene will make bus riding trendy? :)
bus 2606 made an appearance last night as down on her luck carrie boarded after finding out the fare was 1.50. the frequent cab rider remarked last time i rode the fare was 75 cents.
Good Day
I am doing a small project of Route Descriptions and Bus Stops
CARLYLE ROUTE
Chelsea to Caryle
Stops at
Chelea Piers---12 Av and West 23 st
34 st Residence---9 av and 34 street
Greenwich Residence--636 Greenwich St
Main Campus--715 Broadway
Carlyle Hall--NW corner of East 14 and Union Sq E.
Midtown Center--11 west 42 st
CHELSEA ROUTE
Carlyle to Chelsea and 34 street
stops at
Midtown Center
Carlyle Hall--NW Corner of 14 st and Union Sq West
Main Campus
Coles Sports Ctr--Mercer St bet Bleeker and Houston
Greenwich Residence---636 Greenwich St
Chelsea Piers
34th St Residence=-9 av and 34th St
ROUTE 80
Stops at
Lafayette Residence---80 Lafayette St
Broome St Residence--Cleveland St at NE Corner of Broome st
Main Campus
Broome St Residence--Lafayette St at the NE Corner of Broome St
Lafayette Residence
EXCHANGE ROUTE
Stops at
Ocean Residence---17 Battery Place
Exchange Residence--Water St at Broad St
Law School---40 Washington Square South
Main Campus
Exchange Residence==Broadway at Exchange Place
Ocean Residence
SOUTH ROUTE
Stops at
Water St Residence---2oo water St close to John St
Main Campus
Water St Residence
South Rte on Thursday,Friday ,and Saturdays only
stops at (Nights only)
Water St Residence
John St Residene---99 John St
Lafeyette St Residence--80 Lafayette St
Broome St Residence --400 Broome St
Lafayette St Residence
Water St Residence
Carlyle and chelsea Routes use VANS ONLY
NORTH ROUTE--6 AM to 359 PM
stops at
Leydon House--2 av bet 52 and 53 st
NYU Medical Ctr--1 av and East 31
University Court Residence---334 east 25
Coral Towers/U Haul--3 av NW Corner of east 13 st
3 Av North Resid.---3 av bet e 11 and east 12
Alumni Hall Residence--NW Corner 3 av at east 9 st
Rubin Residence Hall --NE Corner of 9 st at 5 av
Bus Stop-8 st betwee Mercer St and Broadway
Drop Off Bus Stop--west 3 at NW Corner of Mercer St
Campus Bus Stop--Rear of Shinkin Hall
Bus Stop--8 st bet Mercer St and Broadway
Alunmi Hall Residence
3 av North ---3 av bet east 11 and east 12
Coral Towers ---3 av and NW Corner of 14 st
Bus Stop eye and ear Center--NE corner of 3 av /23
University Court-334 east 26
NYU Medical Ctr---1 av and east 31 st
Leyden House---2 av and SW corner of 53 st
NORTH ROUTE
bet 6 PM and 3 AM
Stops at
Leyden House
N Y U Medical Ctr
26 st Residence--334 east 26 st
University Court Residence--334 east 25
Coral Towers / U Haul
3 av North
Rubin Residence Hall
Bus Stop
Campus Bus Stop
7 st Residence--NW corner of 3 av at East 6
Alumni Hall
3 av South
Coral Towers
Bus Stop Eye and Ear Center
University Court
26 st Residence==334 east 26
NYU Medical Ctr---
Leyden House
NORTH ROUTE 4 PM to 559 PM
Stops at
Leyden House
NYU Medical Ctr
University Court Residence
Coral Towers / U Haul
3 av North
Alumni Hall
Rubin Residence Hall
Bus Stop---8 st bet Mercer and Broadway
Bus Stop---715 Broadway at Washington Place
Bus Stop---3 av at 6 st
Alumni Hall
3 av North Residence
Coral Towers
Bus Stop--3 av at NE corner of 14 st
Bus Stop--Eye and Ear Center
University Court
NYU medical Ctr
Leyden House
Part 2 will consist of the route descriptions
Carlyle Route --Chelsea to Carlyle
Leave CHelsea Piers via 12 av, West 34 st,9 Av, 14 st,Washington St,Morton St,Greenwich St,West 10 st,Greenwich Avenue,West 8 st,Broadway,,West 4th Street,,the Bowery ,,3 av ,17 street,Union Square west,,,14 st ,,3 Av,42 st,
Do not layover on 42 st or Park Av
Chelsea Route---Carlyle to Chelsea and 34th Street
via 42 st,6 av,44 st,5 av,Broadway, west 17 st,Union Square West,14 st,Broadway,West 3 st,Mercer St,Houston St,,,Greenwich St,,Christopher St,West Side Hwy,,12 av,24 st to Chelasea Pier, then via
,12 av,west 34 st,9 av ,to 34 st
Route 80
via Lafeyette St,Worth St,Centre St,Cleveland St..Lafayette St,Wanamaker Place East 9 st,,Broadway,Spring St.,Lafayette St
Exchange Route
,via West St,Battery Place..State St,Water St..Wall St,South St,Pike Slip ,Allen St,Houston St,6th Av,west 4 st ..,,Washington Square South ,Washington Sq East..,8 st,,Broadway ,,to Battery Place,,Stand at 17 Battery Place
South Route
begin at 200 Water St,,,Maiden Lane ,,South St,Pike Slip..Allen St,1 av,East 9 st,Wanamker Place,Broadway ,,Houston St,,,Allen St,Pike Slip,South St,,Peck Slip ( Not Beekman).,Water St,,Maiden Lane,Williams Street,,John St.Water St,Pearl St,St James St,Worth St,Centre St,White St,Lafayette St,Worth St,Centre St,Grand St,Mulberry St,Broome St,Lafayette St,Worth St,St James St,Pearl St,Water to to 200
North Route ,,6 Am to 359 PM
via on 2 av,30 st,1 Av,east 34 st,FDR Drive,east 25 st ,2 av,14 st,,3 av,,East 9 st st,,5 av,East 8 st,Broadway ,East 8 st,Broadway,East 3 st,,6 av,west 8 st,East 8 st,3 av,east 26 st,,,1 av,55 st,2 av,,,
no buses or Trolleys on 53 st
North Route 6 PM to 3 AM
from 2 av and 53 via 2 av,E 30 st,1 av,E 34 st FDR Dr,E 25 st ,1 av,e 26 st,2 av.E 23 st, 1 av.E 25 st .2 av.E 14 st ,,3 av.,, 9 st,5 av,east 8 st,Broadway ,west 4 st,3 av, east 23 st,1 av ,25 st,3 av,east 26,,1 av,55 st ,2 av,
no buses on 53 st
North Route 4 PM to 559 PM
on 2 av,,30 st,,1 av,east 34 st,FDR Dr 25 st,2 av,14 st, 3 av 9 st,5 av,east 8 st,,Broadway,west 3 ,,,Broadway ,west 4 st,3 av,east 26 ,,,1 av,55 st,2 av
no buses on 53 st
Atlantic Express To Provide More Services for the NYCMTA
NYMTA awarded two 5-year contracts to Atlantic Express to operate Access-A-Ride Paratransit and the Hudson RailLink Feeder Bus Service for a contract worth $194.7 Million.
NJ Transit Neoplan Order Upgrade
As many of you may know, NJT awarded a contract to Neoplan USA for 85 Neoplan AN-460 Transliner Articulated Coaches (50 Transit-Style and 35 Suburban-Style) with a option of 70 more. However the option contract has been uped from 70 additional buses to 160. South Jersey folks just may get thier wishes for Articulated buses.
NovaBUS wins Canadian Bus Contract
Nova was awarded a 5-year contract by the Association du Transport Urbain du Qubec (Association of Urban Transport of Qubec), a canadian consortium consisting of 9 transit operations, to supply 825 buses (Nova LFSs) in a deal to be worth between $250 million and $438 million. The contract has an option for 250 buses for FY 2008 and 2009.
Van Hool Introduces Three New Coach Models
The latest release from Van Hool is the T911 Alicron, a 33-foot luxury coach with 33 seats. The T917 Astron, which is a 45-foot coach that seats 59. Van Hool also released the T913 CL for interurban service work and excursions, this coach is 34-feet and seats 47. Look at www.vanhool.com to see the buses.
(Source: METRO)
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
Thanks Trevor! I think this will put an end to all or any speculation about the neoplans to NJT. I look forward to more of your news updates!
NJ Transit Neoplan Order Upgrade
As many of you may know, NJT awarded a contract to Neoplan USA for 85 Neoplan AN-460 Transliner Articulated Coaches (50 Transit-Style and 35 Suburban-Style) with a option of 70 more. However the option contract has been uped from 70 additional buses to 160. South Jersey folks just may get thier wishes for Articulated buses.
For the sake of those who have to squeeze onto a Cherry Hill Mall bound 404/405 or a longer distance 400 or 403 or on some of the Atlantic City routes during the summer months (507 to Ocean City and 552 to Cape May come to mind), let's hope so...
I must say that I am very impressed with the way that NYU has their on/off campus transit setup. I mean, they got students from as far north as Midtown and as far south as Soho all hooked up. They even use vintage T8J-204s on some of their routes. They must think that they're the MTA or something.;-)
That being said, it makes me very incensed that my school, City College, has a campus enrollment nearly as equal as NYU, and yet the bus service is, at best, half-assed. I mean, we up in Harlem use two "cheese buses" to cover a short distance from 145th/St. Nick's (A/B/C/D subway lines) to 137th St/Bway (1 subway line). Granted that the traffic is good at these two places, but somebody forgot to tell CUNY, CCNY, and whoever else plans the schedule, that the subways deposit students at 5-10 minute intervals (not 20 minutes, as the bus service is set up currently), which forces students on the Bway side to walk a steep hill (and possibly get lost in the neighborhood, if they're not familiar with CCNY's location) and students on the St. Nick's side to walk up three steep hills to campus, if there's no M18 due in at the time of their arrival (God forbid they also don't know my school's location, never mind if they're late for class). And forget about those (like me) who get off at 125th and either Lexington, Malcolm X, or St. Nick's; we're all forced to rely on the M100/101, which are not the most reliable buses in Manhattan especially if something's wrong on the Triboro or the West Side (oh, and they're usually SRO).
This ain't just a rant; I've taken this to Student Gov't already with no response to the issue. I'm not sure whether I should go higher up, even down to Jay Street, to adress this issue. Any ideas?
One word money.
NYU costs close to 30 k to attend plus students are charged for the use of the bus system on thier tutition bill(whether they use the buses or not). NYU needs to make the students parents feel comfortable about sending thier children to NYC. Connecting thier far flung campus with safe student only transit goes along way to that end.
IF you want to anti up the money, you will get better bus service. Quite frankly people go to CUNY because they are not willing to pay the higher tuition.
It would be nice if CUNY made an attempt to provide better bus service. It was easier to walk a half mile across campus than wait for the bus at CSI. One positive, CSI had an electric bus on loan from the ny power authority. Not sure of the manufacturer
An fee of an extra $50 a semetster for better bus service would be worth the money
You make a good point, but we all know that very few students who attend CUNY campuses (especially those near transit hubs) will in their right state of mind shell out an extra $50 of their hard-earned money to finance inter/intra-campus transit. And even if there is a general agreement that there should be better campus transit (as there is and will be on my campus once the BMCC journeymen acclimate themselves to our campus on the hill), will CUNY central and Albany be coutreous and receptive enough to shell the supplemental cash on top of our $50/semester to provide better buses and bus service? Keep in mind that many of the junior college students were just in the midst of a battle to prevent a major mid-FY slashing of their budgets that was supported by then-mayor Guiliani.
Keep in mind that NYU has become a resident campus school, not a commuter school like CCNY. The main purpose of the NYU bus service is to shuttle students between the campus and various dorm facilities. Because most colleges have dorms within walking distance of a campus (and NYU does have some of those), NYU does the next best thing regarding dorms that are not within walking distance of the campus.
I looked all over the archives for this one but I did not find one on it. If so, please point it out to me.
The MTA Grumman Flxibles sounded like the Flxible New Looks. The NJT Grumman Flxibles (PA1000-PA1270, 1300-1464) sound like the NJT Flxibles 3000-3280 and 3500-3605. Also the NJT's 1500-1619, 2000-2579? sounds like the NYCTA's Flxible New Looks (they were rebuilt). All of that I found out through the archives.
My question is what TYPE of engine did the Grummans have when they were with the NYCDOT and MTA Long Island Bus (MSBA)? They have the same engine sound as NYBS #1481-1505. Is it the DD-6V71N?
MSBA - 750-799, 925-999 and PA1000-PA1033
GBL - 550-591
JBL - 400-425
TCC - 100-135
QTC - 800-842*
STC - 400-442?*
* - Both combined to form the Q ueens Surface Corporation.
If this is a dumb question, then I do apologize for asking.
The MTA Flxibles used the 6V71, the NJT Flxibles used the 6V92TA.
What about the NYCDOT flxibles and MSBA (MTA Long Island Bus) Buses?
Thank you, otherwise.
They used the 8v71 for NYCDOT & MSBA. Great sounding engine!!
Thank you, slayer.
Don't worry. Not a dumb question
DD 8V-71 - NYCDOT & MSBA Grumman 870, MSBA Flxible Metro and NYBS GMDD fishbowls (1481-1505)
All NYCTA/MABSTOA Grumman 870 (and new look Flxibles) used the DD 6V-71N.
GBL Grumman 870 were 550-589. A couple of years later they got a few second-hand 870's. I think they were 541-549. Sometime around 1984 Green Bus Lines and Queens Transit had 2 Flxible Metros each. GBL had 590-591 and QT had 860-861. These buses had the DD 6V-92TA engine, but they did not stay around too long. I know there is a picture of 861 in an old copy of Bus World magazine.
Wayne
Is it possible you could send me a copy of the Bus World Magazine by mail IF POSSIBLE...of course? I'll e-mail you my address.
Thanks for the input Wayne!
Anybody know of any company doing a model of the Flxible from the 60's such as the Corgi version of the fishbowls? Also anyone knows who does custom paint work on buses like the Corgi fishbowls? Would like to do one up with "batwings" with the old green color scheme.
One other thing...did any flxibles with "batwings" run in NYC?
NOBODY makes models of Flxibles other than the somewhat HO scale highway bus from the early 1950's, made by American Precision Models, and the Flxible Metro's of the 1990's by Road Champs. A close friend who had many contacts at Flxible Corporation said that they would never license anyone to produce scale models.
As for batwings on Flxibles in NYC, I believe there was only ONE -- I think the number was 7753.
Los Angeles had a load of Flxibles with batwings, as did a few other cities.
Didn't Flxible go out of business? Who would you contact if you wanted to make a model? I would think they would rack up a few thousand in licensing since I would think it would be a collectible
A dear friend of this board, Fred Donaher of Star City Customs has bash-built several Flx New Looks that occasionally appear on E-bay. I think that they are 1/64. I have never seen them in person so I cannot comment on Fred's work.
Unfortunately as noted in a previous thread, Fred is away on an emergency and is not expected back before June or July of this year.
If they are anything like the photograph he uses on all his eBay sales, they are NOT good looking at all. The one he has on that eBay photo has a totally bogus window arrangement for starters....
I have two Fred Donaher products, one is a WMATA Flxible METRO D and the other is a CUSTOMIZED TransiTALK Flxible METRO. His work is pretty good, don't judge a book by its cover or its photo.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I actually bought one of those new look Flxibles from him on eBay awhile back, and when it finally got here (it took two months from payment to delivery), I promptly returned it because it was so bad.
He must have good and bad days -- there's a Yahoo bus model group in which others were complaining....and yet others have compliments.
Flxible went bankrupt in 1996, and has been involved in messy and protracted legal proceedings since then. I believe that MCI ended up purchasing Flxible's "intellectual property" (including the designs to the Metro and a Flxible low-floor bus that was under development). Perhaps they would be a starting point.
Jim D.
Kansas City had Flxibles and (incredibly) AM Generals with "Batwings".
If anyone had a pic of these buses please post them on the net ASAP!
In the movie "Superman II" there's a bus that looks like an AM General with batwings with Evita ads.
Fred Donaher at Star City did me a Flexible with Bat wings-looks real cool. NYC Did have a Grumman 870 running with Bat-Wings. The Bus number was #631-and i do have a picture of it in a Bus world Magazine.
4779-B64
SCAN THAT BILZNILTCH AND POST IT!
PUHLEASE???
Regards,
Trevor.....
Would love to see that pic also...does anyone know when the last bus and what type it was that had "batwings"?
In NYC it was that Grumman Flxible 870 #631.
Wayne
Does anyone know how many Fishbowls are left at New York Bus Service? How about any information on what routes they are on?
Thanks, Laddie
on yesterdays show the perpetrator flees from a holdup at a laundromat. he is chased by officer bosco who loses hin as he hitches a ride on the back of bus 1576.
We call the PERPS---on the job
Steve
on yesterdays show the perpetrator flees from a holdup at a laundromat. he is chased by officer bosco who loses hin as he hitches a ride on the back of bus 1576
Is #1576 still a NYCT bus, or is it owned by Picture Cars or some company that operates vehicles for film crews?
Jim D.
That's the same bus on from law and order about 3 weeks ago
you will never see a nyct in service being used for such shows. i believe they are all owned by picture cars. 2606,1576 and 1648 on which they use a different number.
Enjoy (NJT Volvo B-10M Articulated Suburban #9256, ROUND II)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Rockland Coaches B/O
www.transitalk.com
MY GOD! This bus change it's paint job 3 Times Aready. I like this one since BLUE is the Color I Like.
I gotta say, it is quite a stark difference from most paint schemes. They just need to paint the articulated joint as well. I do like it.
I applaud NJ's initiative towards better aesthetics in transit and the hiring of a design guru to oversee it, but ye gods, that thing is decidedly hallucinogenic. I hope that it, as they say, is merely a "styling exercise" and not a portent of uglier things to come . . .
C
LOL! This is a exercise to pick the paint scheme for the upcoming Neoplan Artic order for NJT.
Regards,
Trevor
yesterday mta board approved nyct request for 100 more over the road buses. this order was previosly discussed here. the buses will feature easier boarding due to a change in placement of the farebox and seat grab handles. 25 will go to castleton,25 to ulmer park and 50 to queens. the 38 orion coaches at castleton will then go on local routes. no delivery date mentioned but probably will be in time for the summer as this is another revision to the original 120 bus order. nyct states they dont know how many mci in service on si. why not check their own roster? (its 375)
Wow, thanks for the update "HUDSON"! Keep us posted.
this means that MAYBE the Orion Suburbans will get a seat configuation?? Could they send #471-#504 to Yukon?
i have a friend at eny cmf who says he has heard nothing of seat replacements. as far as the second idea i doubt it as they are needed to make service at castleton.
I know the 1st order has arrived (2805-2824). There are 3 Queens Depots in need of buses for their Express Routes-CS JAM and QV. What will get what I have no clue. I do know the order goes up to 2924.
A possible extension of the order?
#2805 X17
All Ride-On unless noted otherwise.
1. 5585 on the 37
2. 5817 back on the 46 (had been on 37 past few days)
3. 5811 back on 37
4. 5586 on the 47, seems to be there daily now instead of 5421
5. 5418 is still on the 46
6. 5820 is on the 46
7. 5530 is on the 47, used to be on the 37 from the September pick
8. Eastbound 6 also has a new sign reading: GROSVENOR/WHEATON on the side, alternates between the two on the front
9. Those Orion Is and all white (numbered 5xxxC) Ford Cutaways that ran on the contracted routes are still around, I've seen them on the 96
10. WMATA T2 had 2132, a rare sighting since it normally gets older Orions and Flxibles
Orion Bus Industries and Thomas Built Buses are to be rolled in to one major bus manufacturer.
This is due to DaimlerChrysler's (DCX) financial problems, as some of you may know that DCX has ties with Sterling, Western Star, Freightliner, Thomas, and Orion will be condensed.
The truck companies, Sterling-Western Star-Freightliner will be rolled into one major truck company and Thomas-Orion will be rolled into one.
Stay Tuned For More Information
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Orion and Thomas would become........EVOBUS!
Here is the press release:
To achieve the objectives of its turnaround plan announced Oct. 12 and to secure commercial vehicle manufacturing leadership in North America, Freightliner LLC today unveiled a new management structure. The new organizational structure enables more focused decision-making, stronger control over costs and transactions and enhanced customer focus across the company's brands and business units.
Freightliner LLC, a DaimlerChrysler Company, is North America's largest heavy-duty truck manufacturer and a leading manufacturer of medium-duty trucks. The company produces and markets a wide range of commercial vehicles including Class 3-8 trucks, commercial chassis, school buses and fire and emergency service vehicles.
Key changes to Freightliner's management include:
A streamlined Executive Committee focused on business and product development, customer service, operational excellence and cost control;
Consolidation of order administration, manufacturing, purchasing, logistics and information technology under a single operations group;
The centralization of functions like financial controlling, dealer operations and employee services for maximum operating efficiencies;
Strengthening of management resources in the company's used truck operations; and
The re-alignment of Orion Bus and Thomas Dennis Corporation under DaimlerChrysler's commercial bus division, Evobus. Thomas Built Buses, the High Point, N.C.-based school bus manufacturer, will remain part of the Freightliner family of companies.
"Our new organization is designed to achieve the materials cost savings, production savings, overhead reductions and business model improvements set forth in our turnaround plan, and to return Freightliner to profitability and sustained financial performance," said Rainer Schmueckle, President and CEO, Freightliner LLC.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Great...the combined bus will be a...
Gillig :-)
David
Couldent they have came up with a better sounding name. like Orion. EvoBus ieeek.
Are they going to change the Model Names like the SLF 200 and Oiron5 for example?
Totally Unknown at this Time!
Trevor
EvoBus? What kind of name is that and where did it come from? And some people thought Acela was bad...
EVOBUS...? sounds like EVILBUS...!
BRING BACK THE FLXIBLE METRO !!!!
Bill "Newkirk"
I read about this a few days back, and haven't seen any additional information since. Evobus is apparently Daimler-Chrysler's bus subsidiary (their website is www.evobus.com). I believe it is selling buses in Europe under the Mercedes-Benz and Setra names, so we can probably plan on seeing the Orion and Thomas nameplates around for a while.
Coonsolidating the U.S. companies makes sense, both in terms of combining the Orion and Thomas commercial bus operations and in keeping the Thomas school bus operation separate. This gives Orion/Thomas a full line of transit buses from minibuses to 40-footers, both low and high-floor. Having Daimler as a corporate parent will also strengthen Orion as it works the bugs out of the Orion VII (can a new Orion articulated bus be far behind?).
Given the uncertainty surrounding New Flyer and perhaps other transit bus manufacturers, a healthy Orion is a good thing.
Jim D.
It would be good for Orion to have a new articulated model. Only a handful of companies actually make artics.
True, but I don't believe the North American market for articulated buses is as strong as it may be in Europe. Many operators which use artics have either already received their new artics (NYC Transit, SEPTA, PAT, Westchester County, MUNI, Nashville, Houston) or are in the process of recieving them (NJ Transit, WMATA, Chicago).
What's the artic situation at MUNI? I haven't been to San Francisco in years, but last time I was there, the oldest artics were MAN's, and there were some newer New Flyer artics. Have the MAN's been replaced?
Yes. They were replaced by NEOPLANs.
Groom Killed By Stripper's Boobs
Wednesday January 16, 2002
GENEVA - A fun-filled bachelor party at a strip club turned deadly when a 32-year-old groom-to-be who was enjoying the attentions of a well-endowed stripper suffocated while his face was buried in her breasts.
The mind-boggling drama unfolded, say cops, while Daniel Greene was attending his bachelor party at the Pretty Kitty strip club.
The club had been rented out for the private affair.
According to investigators, Greene was enjoying a lap dance when disaster struck: One of the strippers, Kandy Kane, got too into her performance and suffocated the man between her 72-DD breasts.
Witnesses said that Greene had had his fair share of beer, but didn't seem out-of-control.
When the song "I'm Too Sexy" began to play, Greene became excited and began to dance on the tabletop, hooting and hollering, pals said, "like an idiot."
Miss Kane, apparently pleased to see someone enjoying her choice in music, moved in closer.
When Greene took his seat, she began giving him a lap dance, shaking her breasts in his face.
The more she shook, the deeper Greene got lost in her cleavage.
"Daniel was having so much fun," partygoer John Gillman said.
"We all thought he loved being in that gal's chest.
"Who could have known that when he was waving his hands around, he was signaling for help?"
Cheering onlookers eventually realized that Greene was no longer moving, and pulled him from between Miss Kane's breasts.
Now Greene's family is suing Miss Kane and the Pretty Kitty for wrongful death.
Greene's father, George, won't specify the amount they are suing for, but claims that it isn't about the money.
"Those breasts were lethal weapons," he told reporters.
"The Pretty Kitty should not have allowed Miss Kane to have her bust enhanced to the size that she did.
"We hope that by filing this lawsuit, we can send a message to other strippers: keep your bra size within a reasonable range."
Kandy Kane made a statement through her attorneys: "I thought he liked it in there. "
The Pretty Kitty declined comment.
(source Yahoo! Entertainment)
Regards,
Trevor
It's not too far off topic - bust vs. bus!
Did he die with a smile on his face ? Wotta way to go !!
Bill "Newkirk"
I can't deal with this, this is too much, I've been laughing for the past 20-25 minutes over this.
Trev
will the stripper be brought up on homicide charges?
>>will the stripper be brought up on homicide charges?<<
Nah! she will probably continue her alternate career as a model for helicopter floatation pontoons !!!
Bill "Newkirk"
I heard that on the radio this morning. I find it hard to believe, but it's funny nonetheless.
Hey, there are worse ways to die . . . LOL!
c
72-DD??? About as likely as a Bergen Avenue bus actually pulling into a bus stop!!!
The point of it is its comic relief not so much as the reality!
Regards,
Trevor
(Still Laughing)
Damn! I like big tits but shit 72 double fucking D is way to damn much!
john
i thnik of it happening and the laughtter that takes me over is horrible
72-DD. Holy Cow!
Peace,
ANDEE
My version of a New NJT Scheme, Kept a little of the old style with a twist (Thanks to TT's Neil Greenberg for the Orion outline)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I like it. Now if only NJT felt the same way, you would be branded a genius.
Is that a Neoplan, or an Orion?
Orion!
How about something like Metrobus with the stripes going horizontally the length of the bus? I prefer the current design more than this one, but that is just my taste.
Current Design is played out and you cannot apply the MCI scheme to the standard buses as it would play with ad space. So NJT is coming up with new ideas but that Volvo is just a hazard on the road. This is ONE of my interpretations which is about to followed by another.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I'm really feeling the second one especially since it's already placed on the MCI's. I wish the dedication you have to such a project could be applied to the design team here in Charlotte.
Should we get out the check for 140,000$ I think you have just done the job of the NJ Transit designer
I like both are pretty sharp, but I'm really feeling #2.
Wayne
Not bad Trevor! Hey is that a new bus they are getting? I do not remember seeing that number. Or did you just mke it up? Nice design!!!
Not bad Trevor! Hey is that a new bus they are getting? I do not remember seeing that number. Or did you just mke it up? Nice design!!!
Now, that looks nice! How is the Volvo a hazard? I can't see any logical reasons. I happen to like it.
1) The Back is a dark blue, which makes it hard to see at night.
2) The Orange being reflective, if your headlights hit it the wrong way you are blinded.
I can go on and on....
Regards,
Trevor
OK. I'll take your word for it. It still looks cool in my opinion. Does that bus run on the same route(s) for the most part?
Same Route, Same Run Everyday! The senior guy in the garage has it!
Regards,
Trevor
So that bus runs the 159 Line everyday?
I altered the blue slight, its a basic scheme with a SEPTA flare to it, money saving on paint.
Regards,
Trevor
This one is for the crazy ones who love that Volvo Scheme.....
Regards,
Trevor
I am debating between 2 and 4. Nice job!
Great job on the designs Trevor,now only if NJ Transit would consider purchasing the Orion V's
This happin today as a MCI Classic #716 on Q60 pulls into the bus stop at Queens Blvd and Main St. I put my Card into the farebox and I saw this.
2 Seats where missing the Bottom part of the seat. Writeings on the walls and seats. Brown Tape on the rear side seats and the Wrap Ad is comming off. IT WAS VERRY BAD!
And even worst. 2 Passengers where getting off and they told the driver to open the back door and the driver said "Open it!" and the Green Light was not on when he said it and then the Green Light when on and out they went. And anouther thing about that Driver I got on Classic #716 was that when I ring the bell after the Driver closed the door to get off the next stop. Then He was about to skip my stop and then I said Outloud "GETTING OFF!" As the driver was thinking that I was going to get off at 80 Road when I was getting off at 82 Ave. So the Driver stop and the Green Light Turn on and I got off.
Should I write a letter to Green Lines on 716 and that driver?
No, because nothing will be done, Green Line's Fleet has been like this now for over a year or more, its not gonna change anytime soon. As for the driver....its not that deep!
Trev
And the rear door problem may have been caused by the passengers themselves.
Too damn many passengers get in a royal rush and start pushing on the door BEFORE the driver activated it/green light comes on.And when they do that, they jam the relays/switches so that NOTHING can happen until they stop pushing the door momentarily and it relaxes into its normal closed position. Then the relays/switches can activate, the green light will suddenly appear, and the door magically unlocks.
In the meantime, those passengers in the rush, and NOT following the very plainly marked instructions on the back doors (WAIT FOR GREEN LIGHT....etc.) start blaming the driver when it was the PASSENGERS who caused the problem.
And some of them just can't read signs
Don't waste your time writing unless its really common. One time thing, no big deal.
I saw NF 5500 in route 17 tonight. Too bad some asshole already put a graffiti scrawl on the bus window. The next question is this: when will additional Flyers come in, and where will they go?
The 55xx series is the next batch and is scheduled for delivery this coming spring. The first group of them will probably go to Comly since that depot still has about 50 8xxx series Neos in service. Midvale and Frankford should probably follow as they still have older Neos running as well. It's unlikely (but not impossible) that any of this batch will go to Frontier since their fleet is free of older Neos and the low floors may have trouble turning into Norristown TC.
The 5501-5600 series is due to arrive on SEPTA property sometime this spring. Comly and Frankford will definitely get most of this order. I had heard talk that Midvale may get a few of the 5500s, but they may hold off on sending the New Flyers until the 5600s arrive next year.
(This data below is subject to confirmation as buses may have been pulled out of service since my last roster update.)
There are 58 8700-8800 series Neos (CD batch from 1985) still in service, including 2 CD suburbans at Southern (8852 and 8855) which were still used for trippers as last month. 43 of the CDs are at Comly (which also has 8603), 12 CDs remain at Frankford (as does 8655 and 8674; 8831, 8836, and 8841 were recently scrapped as of last week), and 8827 is at Midvale.
I had heard that Red Arrow/Victory Depot may get at least 5 more Flyers this time (which may force the retirement or transfer of 3059-3063).
Midvale has only 19 8600-series Neos (BM series from 1984) remaining, which I would expect to be gone within a few weeks, if they haven't been pulled out of service already. After the 8600s, the oldest buses at Midvale are 40 3000-series Neoplan DKs (15 of which were sent to Callowhill for some strange reason), which may be kept in service until the arrival of the 5600s.
Incidentially, the remaining Neoplans assigned to Callowhill are mainly being used on the 15 (Girard) and 46 (60 St) lines due to width restrictions on those two lines. Occasionally, they pop up on the other Callowhill routes. I have been seeing NABIs and New Flyers more frequently on the 31, 40, and G buses. I'm guessing that the DKs recently sent to Callowhill are being used on the 15, which is not a wheelchair line.
Speaking of the G, which is split between Callowhill and Southern, the Callowhill trips are using the NABIs and New Flyers, while the Southern trips are still using the 3100/3200 series Neos.
When exactly will it open? When the CNG Orion7's come in?
-Jay
2002 LACMTA cng low nabi 7645
Assigned to San Gabriel Valley/El Monte Division 9
Luminator Horizon destination sign
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the sign, but I guess based on that picture, it looks a lot like a TwinVision instead. But, that's probably just me...
luminator usa-what's new
Annoucements
LUMINATOR'S HORIZON DISPLAY SIGN OF CHOICE FOR LAMTA AND OCTA'S NEW BUSES
Plano, TX -October 10, 2001 -- Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority (LAMTA) and Orange County Transportation Authority (OCTA) have ordered a total of 350 new buses that will be fitted with Luminator's 100% LED Horizon signs systems. The system consists of a front, side, rear and Run Number signs. LAMTA have 350 buses on order with an option of up to 700 buses. OCTA has 170 buses on order. Both orders are for NABI buses. Horizon is growing in popularity because its many appealing features including the use of long life LEDS that will reduce maintenance costs, superior readability, wide viewing angle, automatic brightness control, and solid state design. Luminator is a major supplier to the public transportation industry since 1934. In the mid-seventies they introduced electronic destination signs to the transit industry and successfully convinced the majority of transit authorities throughout North America to use electronic signs as replacements for traditional curtain signs. The company continues to be a leader as a supplier of passenger information display systems for use on public transit vehicles. For more information on Horizon or other Luminator products, contact Dan Kelleher at 972 516-3073 or via e-mail: lmtsales@luminatorusa.com.
# # #
Contact: Barbara Lange 972-516-3136
--------
Posted by ctrabs74 on Thu Jan 31 13:09:01 2002, in response to LACMTA 7645, posted by gsoma on Tue Jan 29
23:11:42 2002.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the sign, but I guess based on that picture, it looks a lot like a TwinVision
instead. But, that's probably just me...
1999 lacmta high flyer 5197
2001 lacmta low flyer 5377
LI Bus hasn't accepted dollar bills for quite a few years now, so why do I still see so many passengers perplexed when the farebox doesn't accept dollar bills? They walk through the bus pleading for change.
That is one pet peeve of mine.
Just like all the riders who ask me for the time. I feel like saying "time to get a watch!".
Perhaps the dollar bill ones need the saying "time to get a Metrocard!".
Please it's not just on LIB, it's on all buses. I have seen it done many-many time on my bus sometime the same person dose it all the time. The even sometime ask me as a driver, Even if I had the change I could not give it to them. It is not alod by the TA. The best now is when I am riding the bus now as a passage and no one has change on the bus and the person thinks he/she is going to get a free ride and I pull out a gold dollor from my pocket and piis them off.
Robert
Remember the bus driver (or was it dispatcher) on the M41 Manhattan Culture Bus many years ago? He had change in the back of his car for the passengers who would otherwise been unable to ride the bus and the loss of a customer?
Well I think the Culrure loop bub driver were the only one who mad change after 1969. I will ask my farther about this, he drove it right before he made dispatcher. Right now he has 8 day left to retirement. He earned it after 33+years with the (OA)MaBSTA.
Robert
Eight days to go? Congratulations! Hope he enjoys being able to relax after all those years on the road.
C
He is a Dispatcher, for about 28 years. He been a midnight Crew in one or another Depot in Manhattan from about 20 years or so. The last full time road post he had was City Hall 7a-3p. He was in the movie "Splash" for maybe two seconds. He work in 100st before it closed, then when to 54st and closed it out when MTV open. He was the first Dispatcher at MTV, and from then on he bounts between Hundson and MTV, were he is now. He did want Westside but the Number 1 man had it since day one.
Robert
Wow! That's quite a career. He must have some good stories to tell. Again, congratulations on his retirement. :)
C
Eight days to go? Congratulations! Hope he enjoys being able to relax after all those years on the road.
C
Yeah - Many passengers have been doing this for many years in NYC. I think it's a ballsy thing to do. I remember I'd always either make sure I had exact fare, try to get change in a store or just buy token(s) at a subway station.
Wayne
At this Depot our customers have found that the Sacagawea & Susan B's work just fine ... more then 1,000 a day.
I don't think the folks you are talking about are "regulars".
Mr rt__:^)
It took them long enough to find out that they work. It's was like with the old F/B as well.
Robert
Yes, BUT at the "private" operation we had fareboxes that took bills.
The problem was some folks thought they could get change for their $20. When that happened you could see them buying rides for others & taking change form them until they made up the $20. Was had to do when only 3 wanted to board at a stop < G >
Mr rt__:^)
Yes the dollar COINS work fine. But most riders at LIB probably don't know what the heck they are.
dollar bills haven`t been accepted since 1972. thats when the ta required exact fare on all buses.i do not in any circumstance make change for anyone. its not my job and you never know if someone is casing you for a robbery. the people are lucky they get the correct time when they ask me what time is it.
I think that was 1968.
It was August 31, 1969.
David
that was the best summer mets won the world series
Not true, you can STILL board a express bus from the Bronx (NY Bus Serv. or Liberty Lines) and pay with bills.
The other "privates" didn't add the shoe box to the fareboxes that enable tyhem to accept bills.
Mr rt__:^)
i am talking about nycta buses, which i have been corrected (1969). i really don`t care what private lines do. i drive for nyct.
Yes, but if we're talking about public service in the CITY, that's the ones with the blue stripes, plus a few other colors, all of which take MetroCards, coin & some even take photos of George Washington.
It's one system, but there are some differences, e.g. the TA fleet doesn't offer Off-Peek fares, the "privates" do. So, all day Saturday & Sunday it just costs you a dollar in coin to ride in Queens. You can even ask for a paper Transfer.
Mr rt__:^)
like i said i don`t care about private transportation. did you know it costs lots less to remove coins from fareboxes than removing paper. carry the gold dollar coin it works fine. better yet get tokens or get a metro card. dollar bills are a waste and often lead to other problems
Bills are a problem for the mechanism (they get ripped, you get a lot of miss-reads, other paper that goes in confuses it) & the company (the presents gives people sticky fingers).
But, if your business is 100 % Express riders (NY Bus & Liberty), then accepting bills is an important part of the service. In Queens the "privates" carry more folks local then express and they have easier access to MetroCards, so the lack of our taking bills isn't as much of a inconvience to the public.
BTW, at the TA you SUCK ... the coin out, the "privates" dump, but the top of the farebox is exactly the same !
Mr rt__:^)
if you take express service into the CITY , you have acsess to buying metrocards. there ae plenty of ways to obtain one if you are in the city.if one can`t obtain one then thats just a sign of one being lazy to go on lunch and buy a metro card.
[... there ae plenty of ways to obtain one if you are in the city. If one can`t obtain one then thats just a sign of one being lazy to go on lunch and buy a metro card.]
Sounds like you know a customer or two from the Bronx & Westchester ?
Mr rt__:^)
Why don't they charge Off Peek Fares on the Express Lines and people that have to use coins on the Express Buses often don't get a Bus-Bus Transfer unless the Driver is nice to do so?
Exept for the QM1/QM1A when a person needs to Transfer from the QM1/QM1A going to Midtown to a Wall St EXPRESS at 188 St in the AM.And going back from Wall St in the PM could get a Bus-Bus Transfer to transfer to the Wall St Express(AM) and from the Wall St EXPRESS(PM). The thing is that even if you have Metrocards. You would have to ask for a Transfer when you get off from the QM1/QM1A to Midtown(AM) and from Wall St(PM) to go on the next QM1/QM1A Bus to whereever you going.
Well, not exactly. Most Express riders who ask for a paper Transfer are switching to another express bus AND still need to use the MetroCard Transfer to complete their trip. This is called a "3 legged transfer" which the TA would rather you pay another $1.50 for.
The "privates" "grandfathered" it into service. The TA recently tryed to stop it again but couldn't because it's been going on long before MetroCard arrived.
Disclaimer: I'm not the official spokesperson of the MTA, TA, nycDOT or my employeer.
Mr rt__:^)
MR T-i understand u did a rts in Queens Surface colors(the 1/60 scale)-any chance you can do one like that for me?
The ones that really get on my nerves are those who hold the bus up as they run for it, realize once they're on board that their MetroCard (if they have one) does not have enough money on it, and then hit up the rest of the passengers for change. Unfortunately I don't have enough guts to up and tell these people to get off and get some change so that we can go.
Yup that happens too. Add the annoying pax to lousy running buses and I don't know how the B/O's put up with all that.
Even though I'm a busfan, driving a bus, especially a LI Bus, would make me insane.
Valley metro In Phoenix takes and records dollar bills in the fareboxes. however both the Susan B Anthony and golden dollar coins are recorded as quaters inserted in the fare boxes.
Does the New York and New Jersey buses have the troubles with electronic signs failing the way they do in Baltimore?
Here, buses as new as 2000 have malfunctioning signs. Buses run with hand-scrawled route numbers and cryptic destinations all the time. Buses with Twin-Vision and Balios signs are no better. I have seen Balios signed buses with partial displays (i.e, 3 CROMW followed by BRID for what should be 3 CROMWELL BRIDGE P&R)
It has to be piss-poor maintainence by the MTA here.
Any Comments
Actually, as much as I want to say that I like the Balios signs, I just don't think they are well-made. Here in Detroit, we have about 120 buses with 1-2 year old Balios signs and the failure rate is staggering. I really like the way they look when they work properly, but they seem to be malfunctioning almost half of the time.
As far as maintenance goes, I'm not really sure that maintenance has all that much to do with the basic functionality of a d-sign. It seems to me that as long as the destination sign is properly powered and that part of the bus is well maintained, then the signs should work OK, but I don't know all that much about wiring and whatnot...
Pierce Transit's 2001 C40LFs have horrific Balious signs. Most of the side displays only display partial information if anything at all. The TwinVison and Luminators still work just fine. I prefer the TwinVision and i hope PT gets smart and swap the Faulty Balious for TwinVision signs.
Most in this area are Luminator's & work fine.
Mr rt__:^)
I recall a post once that mentioned that signs, no matter what type, get messed up wheneve the bus its attached to hits too many bumps and potholes.
Don't remember that thread & haven't heard that at this depot ... but then I haven't asked. I will & see what the reply is.
Mr rt__:^)
Both the "Flip-dot" and "LED" type Luminator signs seem to work much better and prove more reliable than many of the other previously mentioned signs. However, as is true with any type of electronics or machinery, jarring will cause problems. Not necessarily with the sign itself, but with the wiring (or harness) that connects the signs to the farebox, etc.
There is also cause for 'stray dots' and inputs when intense jarring is present.
I just saw a WMATA Orion V (think it was 2142) displaying J1 SILVER SPRING on the front but Z8 STATION on the side. WMATA signs are so erratic. Ride-On 5703's sign wasn't working and 5701's side sign had this:
70|70 MILESTONE
The 70 was duplicated on the sign for the destination as well as in its regular place.
Well LI Bus has more than just sign problems. Do you see buses breaking down every day? Do the buses have missing stop strips?
These are just some of the things that result from crappy upkeep.
I've always felt that SEPTA made a big mistake going with the TwinVision signs instead of staying with Lunimator. On the 2056-2069 cutaways (used by contract operators), many of the TwinVision signs are barely working, and when they do work, are difficult to read. Krapf's - which has 2058-2059 and 2063-2069 - does a horrible job keeping the signs on their buses working.
As far as the artics and ElDorados go, the TwinVisions aren't much better. A lot of the side signs on the Neoplan artics don't work properly. The TwinVision LED signs are a slight improvement, but are slow to refresh and have only one-line readings on the front signs.
By contrast, NJT, which uses Luminators on all of their buses, has very few problems with malfunctioning signs. Even the older Luminators on the 1989 Flxibles are often in better shape than SEPTA's signs on the artic and ElDorado fleets.
Now, MdTA (Maryland Transit Administration) wants to replace the signs on the 92/94/9500 Flxibles and on the NABIs with Ballios signs? I hope the Maryland Board of Public Works (which approves all MdTA Capital projects) reconsiders the project and goes with a better sign.
Finally I get to start one of my own. Anyway, last weekend I saw the movie Swordfish. A pretty good movie, if I must say. Anyway, I saw a Flyer bus (Not New Flyer) and it seemed to be a D902 or D901 (is there a difference?) It was used to transport the hostages to wherever they were planning to go, but when the bus went areial (with the help of a helicoptor, of course) two of the chords snapped, and the bus was hanging vertically. Two people actually fell out the back window (a problem with having buses with rear windows). Anyway, I tried to figure it out by the interior, but i couldn't figure out what company that was from, although the dark ugly brown seats seemed familiar. Anyway ideas?
Ex Seattle Metro bus repainted in MUNI colors with redone side windows. I forget the fleet # but i think it was an ex KCM/BC transit bus.
My mom and I got on GBL #5502 last night. As some of you know, #5502 is one of the two GBL buses that has that "talking bus" feature.
Anyway, I look at the LED display and say to my mom, "Merry Christmas, Mom."
The interior LED display said "12/25/97 09:31 AM."
As we got off the bus through the front door, my mom said thanks to the driver. I said "Merry Christmas!" I wonder if the driver got it. Hey, at least I didn't say "...and a happy 1998!"
i saw that on friday night-dont get it either. Guess GBL maintence is shot to !@#
Saw 5169 on Wortman Ave in Brooklyn today the flag on the passenger side was backwards.
Murf................
Alot of buses are like that. They belong on the other side.
Robert
No. When a permanent flag is attached to a vehicle, the Union faces the front and the stripes face the rear. There was a big debate about this, but even though it looks backwards, it is technically correct according to proper flag etiquite.
Why is the flag sometimes backwards on the side of airplanes, buses, and military uniforms?
The flag decals have the union (the blue area with the stars) on the side closer to the front of the plane. On the plane's left, the decal shows the flag with the union at the left, as usual. On the plane's right side, the union is on the right. This is done so that the flag looks as if it is blowing in the wind created by the forward movement of the ship or airplane. You can see this on cars and trucks as well. Click to see pictures of the flag decals on Air Force 1. There are two separate flag patches in the Army inventory: the normal U.S. flag replica that is worn on the left sleeve, and what is referred to as the "reversed field" flag patch, which is worn on the right sleeve. Excerpt Credit: Flag Rules and Regulations (http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html)
I thought bus #5169 was with Jamaica. Why would it be in Brooklyn? Only buses 5100-5124 are in Brooklyn and they are with the Flatbush depot. Jamaica has 5145-5169.
The side sign indicated "Not in Service" even though there were several people in the front of the bus. Maybe it was being used for training??
5169 is the main training bus for Jamaica depot, followed by 4572. If the bus was seen in lower Brooklyn, then probably the rookies had some paperwork to do around Jay st.
BIG AL
Jamaica training bus i think....saw a bus with the 'training bus' shingle in front of the run box heading west on belt pkwy around rockaway pkwy about 1pm, possibly that was it....
They are all like that.
I'v found out from bus talk on the Ohio Museum of Transportation website that PAT(Pittsburg Area Transit) in the state of Pennsylvania wanting to get rid of all their Flxible Metros and rehab their old Neoplans and Orions. Their METROS are 1993 Metro Ds and 1994/95 Metro Ds, in their prime!
The reason PAT's desperately trying to get rid of them is because of shortage and in some cases no certain Flxible bus parts. Other reasons is they lack power, it's a maintenance headache, and some have tightness when driving. PAT's been known from some area garages poor maintenance. One maintenance garage is better than the other five garages instead of being eqaul.
LACMTA is retiring all their Flxible Metros I heard due to the arrival of NABI low floors and parts. Although, they did sell some to their adversaries in CAL.
I don't know if it's the parts issue because look at Cleveland RTA. They have Flxible Metros that are 20 years old and running. It's to bad that those buses including the 20 year old remaining RTSs they have are going to retire this year due to the arrival of 50 NovaBus LFS all at the winter Olyimpics, and in the spring or fall the arrival of the first bach of NABI 40-LFWs: 120 this year and next year the remaining 115.
I would love to have NJ Transit to purchase if not all of PAT's 257 totaled Flxible Metro Ds and Es and remanufacture them to their specs and upgrade their power. The majority of those Metros are in transit config. while some are in suburban arrangement.
Question: Has anybody heard from NJ Transit the final say of wheather yes or no to remanufacture their 1989 Flxible Metro Bs?
Thank you and you all have a good day!
-Ronnie
LACMTA is retiring all their Flxible Metros I heard due to the arrival of NABI low floors and parts.
Actually, from what I've heard, MTA is keeping its 33 1992 Metros,
at least for the time being. However all the earlier models will
be departing as the NABIs arrive.
Fred
FDNY talked about this earlier, now the MTA has it on it's website. Just go to www.mta.nyc.ny.us and then go to the NYCT bus section and you will see "Proposed Changes in Brooklyn - Public Hearing" That will give you more info on what FDNY was talking about in the previous BusTalk postings. This involves the B13, B18, B40 and B78.
the new web address for the mta is www.mta.info. its easier to remember than that old web address!!!!!
The Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) will hold a public hearing on a plan to change local bus service in Brooklyn on the B13, B18, B40, and B78 routes.
B13/B18 Changes
The B13 and B18 bus routes would be consolidated and a portion of the B18 route on Cypress Avenue in Ridgewood would be discontinued. The consolidated route would be called B13.
The new B13 would become the prime bus route in the area and would operate in the sections previously served by the B18 in Ridgewood, Bushwick, and Williamsburg.
The new B13 would travel on Bushwick Avenue instead of Morgan Avenue in Williamsburg, and would serve residents of the Williamsburg and Bushwick Houses.
The new B13 would serve the new movie complex on Elderts Lane and Linden Boulevard and the new housing development in Spring Creek.
B18 customers who travel to Cypress Avenue south of Ridgewood Terminal would be able to use the L Subway line, which stops at Wyckoff Avenue and Halsey Street.
Click here for details in PDF format.
B40/B78 Changes
Consolidate the B40 and B78 routes and rename it the B47. The new B47 would travel the length of Ralph Avenue connecting Williamsburg with Kings Plaza.
Discontinue the underused and redundant portion of the B40 route in Williamsburg, north of Flushing Avenue, and the segment that travels east of Ralph Avenue in Brownsville and East New York.
Click here for details in PDF format.
Date and Place of Hearing:
Wednesday, March 6, 2002
Starting at 6 p.m.
Public School 257
Auditorium
60 Cook Street
Brooklyn, New York
You may register to speak until 7 p.m. on the day of the hearing.
last post was found at this site: http://www.mta.info/mta/communications/hearing-brooklynbus.htm
I really hope NYCT doesn't go through with this B13/B18 change. I know these two routes better than anyone on this board. Trust me, these routes should be left the way they are. These routes have VERY accurate schedules, so why change them? The new B13 plan will flop IMO.
-Jay
I rode the B18 once on a Nova RTS. From where I got on(Wyckoff and Gates Aves) to 2 stops after I got on it was Me,My MOM and 2 other people. After that it was just me and MOM all the way to Metropolitan Ave. Overall B18 is fast BUT the view past Flushing Ave SUCKS. Why? It's mostly RUN DOWN BULIDINGS AND EMPTY LOTS. They should keep the B18 and just reroute it by that plan for the Westend part of B18
The MTA doesn't care what the scenery for the ride is. Just enjoy it. If you want scenery, take the WMATA T2, Ride-On 90, or some route not in the middle of the city.
I just got it through email. Looks like the B47 will be making a comeback (sort of). If the merger goes through, I wonder who will get the new B47? ENY or Flatbush?
Today, taking advantage of the wonderful January weather, I went on an 11.6 mile bike ride and I figured I would take my camera, since you never know what you might see. Well, sure enough, I was in for quite a bit. I saw 5409 (silver bus) on the 35 at Medical Center, 5703 (Metro-D) on the 70 at Medical Center, and 5701 (Metro-D) on the 70 at Bethesda. Also, a WMATA Orion II was at Medical Center, number 3701, a Western bus. I got pictures of all, both of my rolls are nearing completion. This means that those and the new Orion Vs shouldn't be too far off!
In addition, this morning, I rode 5356.
How did this bus get in QV? Wasn't it stored in Brooklyn last year? I seen it on Union Turnpike and main St. at 7:50 A.M. today.
http://bustalk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=43938
You didn't hear? FP sent 4883 to QV in exchange for 1773 last week!
(OK, I know that was mean...)
i saw this on the Bx31 about 10 min ago.
Saw 2 broken down LI Buses today. First one was 313 on Northern Blvd in Roslyn, no supervisor on scene yet.
The other one was 206. died out on the hill going up Glen Cove ave around the "projects". Supervisor was on scene and the tow truck did eventually take it away.
Also going back from Glen Cove I had a new 300 that was acting up, struggling to get up to speed and felt like it was gonna stall.
As you can see the new 300s are giving us problems as well. Whether it's DD Series 50G or Cummins L10G they are constantly breaking down.
Are CNG's that unreliable, or is there a maintainance issue?
My guess is there is very poor maintainance at LI Bus as a result of cost cutting, so the buses keep breaking down. It seems lately there's magic marker all over the place, missing stop strips and back doors missing/broken upper compartment covers (saw 3 of those today). Did I mention the litter?
To the fellow who complained about Green Lines, LI Bus is getting to be just as bad. It's (expletive deleted) that in a county with so many rich folk that we can not afford to keep up the buses. After 3 years of this garbage and it continues.
Nassau county sucks!
I don't like CNG much at all. Up here in Erie, we have six 2000 model year New Flyer C35LF coaches that have been nothing but problems. They have the Detroit Diesel 50 series in them as do all the RTS and Low-Floors EMTA has. A few months ago, coach 0085 was working the Saturday #5 and right outside my work emmited a big bang, tons of white smoke (enough to fill the sky) and stalled out. At one point I witnessed actual yellow flames shooting out the tailpipe. Coach 0086 had a similar incident about two months before hand with a standing load on the #9. Both coaches had to be evacuated and towed. Two months ago 0086 missed a whole month and my friend who usually drives it didn't really knew why.
These CNG coaches often feel like their are going to stall out for no reason and often do. They don't ride every smooth like the D35LF coaches that just arrived. The other day, my friend was driving 0086 which has spent almost as much time in maintanace as it has been on the road. Two times her Check/Stop Engine came on and the bus immediately shut off.
When she goes to lunch, she is treated to coach 0085 which often sputters and chokes comming up the West 26th St hill on the #9. This bus is currently off the road and EMTA has called New Flyer about it. EMTA changed some filters on it, but the bus still almost died comming up the hill, so they are at a loss.
Usually once a week 0087 has some sort of issue that causes it to get changed off as well. None of our other New Flyer Low-Floors act like this. Sure, all buses have thier share of issues, but between the stalling out, choking and sputtering around and the fires, this is overkill. I have a feeling all of these problemss are tied in with the CNG somehow and see it as a true waste and hastle.
Well Nassau County got CNG because they wanted to please those damn environmentalists. To quote former County Executive Thomas Gulotta "Drivers who got stuck behind buses complained about the diesel fumes, so we listened and are converting the bus fleet to 100% CNG".
See the riders don't count. However in defense of CNG, JG depot and QSC have a large CNG fleet and I don't see so many breakdowns, but I don't go there everyday.
Still if it was up to me we'd have stuck with good old reliable diesel. Diesel buses cost less, including maintainance. Plus they don't have to be towed when they run out of gas (like CNG's do).
Still I remember when I was younger, going to Jones Beach seeing diesel Gilligs and Flxibles stuck broke down in the summer on the Jones Beach route. Which leads me to believe MSBA/LI Bus is a second grade bus service held up to a much lesser standard than NYCTA.
Don't forget the asthma that desiel causes
A real cost saver when the city flips the bill for poor childrens medical bills
the problem is that the engine makers need to design a CNG only engine. Most engines used in CNG buses were designed as deseil engens and modified to work with CNG.
How about the electric hybrid buses? It's probably a more reliable mode than CNG. I've also heard they are cleaner.
>>> I have a feeling all of these problemss are tied in with the CNG somehow <<<
If your bus company has very few CNG buses the problem is probably lack of experienced mechanics. Here in Los Angeles with a large fleet of CNG buses, I rarely see any broken down buses by the side of the road. Of course I have no way of knowing how many buses are sitting in depots undergoing repairs at any given time, or whether CNG buses need more maintenance per mile than diesel, just that the MTA is keeping them moving on the road.
Tom
Well I have a feeling LIB's problems with CNG have more to do with poor maintainance than the CNG itself. But diesels can take the abuse better.
LIB is starved for cash and streching it's budgets thin. Now I'd just hike taxes on the rich, they can tolerate loss of money better than most of us LI Bus riders dealing with these crappy buses.
And I really feel for the LIB drivers, they have to drive these poorly maintained buses for a living!
5 AM Wednesday to 1200AM Tuesday
M101 and M103
Southbound
Regular route on Lexington to 54 st,,EB on 54st,SB on 2av,WB on 45 st,to Lexington ,SB on Lex and Regular
M102 and M98
Southbound
s/a/a
M27/M50
Eastbound
regular route on 50 st to 6 av,to 54 st,to 2 av,SB on 2 av to 50 st and Terminate
(Buses are to layover on 50 st between 2 and 3 av ,.after making last stop on 2 av at 50 st..Then make right on 49 st,right on 3 av,righton 50 st,to take stand)
M27/m50
Westbound
from temporary stand south on 2 av,to 45 st,WB on 45 st to 6 Av,WB on 49 and regular
M42
Eastbound
regular route to 42 and 2 av,and terminate..Buses are to take stand on 42 st between 1 and 2 av.
(South on 2 av,eb on 40 st,NB on 1 av,use right side ramp to 42 st)
M42
Westbound
from temporary stand ,,make 1st top at 2av and 42 st and regular
M104
eastbound
regular route to 42 and 2 av and terminate.Buses are to take stand on 42 st bet 1 and 2 av.
(South on 2 av,eb on 40 st,NB on 1v,,use right side ramp to 42 st)
M104
Westbound
from temporary stand,,make 1st stop at 2 av and 42 st ,,then regualr
M15
Northbound
use underpass at UN from 41 st to 49 st
ALTERNATE DETOURS IN THE EVENT THAT LEXINGTON AV CLOSED AT 57 ST
M101 M103 M102 M98
Southbound
Regular route to 57 st,,EB on 57 ,,SB on 2 av ,WB on 42,to LExington av SB,,and regular
ALTERNATE ROUTE IF 54 st or 45 st is BLOCKED
M27 and M50
EASTBOUND
regualr route on 50 st to 6 AV,NB on 6,EB on 57 st,SB on 2 Av,to 50 st and terminate
(Buses are to layover on 50 st bet 2 and 3 av)
M27 /M50
Westbound
from temporary stand ,SB on 2 av,WB on 42 st,NB on 6 av,wb on 49 st and regualr
Streets closed
Lexington av 57 to 45 st==open to buses to 54 st
East 50 st---5 av to 3 av
East 49 st --3 av to 5 av
East 42 st---closed at 2 av,(FDR Ramp 42 st closed)
1 av closed at the UN ,(underpass open for buses)
Madison Av-- 49 and 51 st,,three lanes closed --east side of the street
at the Palace Hotal
x21 x22 x31 via Lexington Av,east on 54 st,south on 2 av, west on 42 st and regular
x2 and x5
via Lexington av,east on 54 st,south on 2 av,west on 45 st,south on Lexington ,,and regualr
use all stops on 2 av
Operators rollling on to 57 and Madison
will use FDR Drive ,23 st,Under FDR left on 35 st,right on 1 Av,left on 55 st,right on Madison Av to 57 st
effective 1/21/02
B63 southbound to 60 st,Right on 60 st,to 4 Av SB,to regular route
B63 Nouthbound via 4 av,right on 60 st,left on 5 av
B64
5 av construction betwwen 86 and 87 st
to Bay Ridge via 86 st,3 av,left ,,left on 88 st,left on 4 av ,,to stand
to Coney Island
No Change
this will take 10 1/2 months to complete
stops on 4 av bet 60 and 86 st,
will be installed
from 86 st to 98 st ,will use existing stops
For a period of 3 years
the Loop will be closed
Start Date
January 6, 2002
B64 to Bay Ridge
from Stillwell Av ,near side,Mermaid Av via Stillwell av,Surf Av,west 17 st,Neptune Av,Stillwell Av and regular route
Southbound to Coney Island---
no change
B74
Eastbound to Stillwell Terminal
Regular route from Sea Gate,via Mermaid Av,West 17 st,Surf Av,Stillwell Av,to stand on Stillwell Av,Far side Surf Av. (east curb)
This is the last stop for eastbound B36 buses running off to the Ulmer Park Depot.
Westbound to Seagate from Stillwell Av and Surf Av,via Stillwell Av,Mermaind Av,,and regualr route to west 37 street,
a new Bus stop on Stillwell Av far side,Surf Av ,(east curb)==the new terminal location
I'm just wondering how one goes about putting a picture in a post? I don't know the code to do it and was hoping somebody could fill me in.
Thanx...
It's fairly simple. BusTalk accepts standard HTML markup, so you can use most code that you would use in a simple webpage. Here's a brief rundown:
Get yourself some web server space. There are a number of free webhosts out there, although some, like Yahoo!/Geocities, no longer allow remote loading of images (which makes them unsuitable for hosting BusTalk post images). Many ISPs, including AOL and Starpower (the two I use, for example), will give you several megabytes of web server space for free.
Using an FTP program like WS_FTP, upload your image(s) to this server space. Refer to program documentation or instructions from your webhost for specifics. Make a note of the path and filenames of your pictures (their URL addresses).
Finally, in BusTalk add an HTML IMG tag to recall your image. Example code:
[IMG SRC="http://www.yourhost.com/abc/newflyer.jpg"]
NB: replace the brackets [ ] with greater/lesser than signs < > when you go to actually do it. I put the brackets in so that browsers would not actually try to render the above as an image.
Hey presto!
Hope this helps. Any questions, just post here again -- this is a frequently revisited how-to topic. ;)
Chris
Check out my new site i been working on Past Bus Roster NYCT/MaBSTOA Assignment. I will add more from 1999, 2000, 2001, & 2002 past bus roster assignment.
DNJ
MTA-NYCT
Well, it looks like FP's roster from 1999 is mostly the same from the one now. There hasn't been any significant changesin FP, for the past three years.
...about 1145am 1/30/02....seen on the Belt eastbound around coney island av.....i assume it was running on to the 4 at knapp street. I think some 4's also do an express trip or two so i guess this was one of those runs....
...about 1230 pm .... an MCI signed up as an X27 westbound on the belt around 14th avenue......
am i correct to say that the 4s can run on to knapp street via the belt and the X27s can use the belt to shore rd? or was i seeing two b/o's committing no-no's??
you are correct
i thought the mci cuold not fit under the bridge on the belt where son of sam committed his last dastardly act.
they fit
i saw it right at one of those horseshoe-shaped pedestrian overpasses where the posted clearance is 10-8. i guess that is for the right lane though which would be the lowest point over the roadway.
it certainly fit - lol
well i hope no one is stupid enough to drive one there in the right lane but i wouldnt be surprised. mci height is 11 feet 5 inches.
NYCT's MCIs fit under the Bay 8th Street overpass no matter which lane is being used. This was proven by actually operating one there as a test.
David
well then that ten feet eight inch sign must be wrong since nyct mci height is eleven feet five inches.
The sign is wrong. From what I understand, ALL of the height signs in the city are wrong -- a little insurance against someone trying to drive a vehicle that's just a l-i-t-t-l-e too high. I wouldn't want to test it, though, at least not with my own personal vehicle...if I had one that high :-)
David
the same holds true for the height restriction on ave j under the brighton line. gleason would not book out any orion cng`s on the b11 because the sign listed less than 11 ft. when the newflyers arrived they tried out both the orion and new flyers and realized they fit!!!!!!!
2001 lacmta cng low nabi 7419
assigned to west hollywood division