I just got through checking the websites for NABI, Neoplan, and New Flyer. And to tell you the truth I'm a little incensed right now. Why? Well, as we all know NYCT went with New Flyer for it's fleet of 400 D60s (#5250 to what-should-be-#5649). At first, nothing wrong with that. But then I compare the way the three manufacturers make their buses. Both NABI and Neoplan uses stainless stell-on-frame for their buses, while New Flyer uses aluminum sides, fiberglass tops, and a "chassisless" structure for their buses. I see this, and say to mayself "no wonder that whenever a D60 hits a bump, it rattles as if its about to come apart!" Sure, the materials New Flyer uses for their buses would probably make them a good alternative for a buget-conscious transit authority, but considering the problems that NYCT is reportedly having with its D60s, I get incensed when I see that there were manufacturers out there who use more dependable equipment (not to mention A/C) for their buses.
Sorry if I just beat a dead horse, but I've got to vent my frustration someplace.
Sounds like the D60s are not cut out for NYC. Give me a good old RTS anyday! THAT is the official bus of New York to me.
-F.
Thanks guys for all the help. If this movie deal goes thru looks like So. Cal. will have a bunch more NY area buses running around. Buses to be repainted are NYCTA 3907 and 5285 for the New York buses. 351 (TDH 5303) ex Dallas #120 will go for the Dallas bus and 364 (TDH 4517) ex Overlake Transit will be used for the Miami bus. 5034 (TA60-102N) will be used for interior shots as crew can be located in the front while the bus is driving and can film at the same time. I will keep you guys posted if the job goes thru. Any other pictures would be great.
Very nice; I look forward to the movie. What kind of buses will be used? Also, will you be using any models in the filming?
-F.
I will be using only GM fishbowls for this movie. I am thinking of repainting 3907 (TDH 5304 serial 222) ex DCTransit into the metalic green NY paint scheme. Its currently in the blue and silver NY scheme. I know NY didnt have 5304's but the bus needs to be repainted badly. Also under consideration for the NY bus are my ex Steinway bus #8 T8H 5307A serial M064 or the ex PANYNJ #20 T6H 5307A #20. I dont currently have any other true NY area buses available to do this. These buses are to new for the time period but to the average eye, they all look the same.
http://www.geocities.com/regtransit/
Sounds like a great plan. Keep us all posted on your progress; if you need models for the filming, let me know!
-Fred
MTA Bus Rosters Updated @ TransiTALK Effective December 1st.
Depot By Depot Style with Repowers and Out Of Service
List Style with Fleet Notations
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Everything seems good, except the 8169 listed as repowered. I just got off it about an hour ago
-
Q55- RTS TMC #8169(non-repowered)
What is bus #122 doing in Winnipeg, MB?
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk/Rosters/NYCB3.html
Got Me Beat, But it's there and it's never coming back!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
RTS #4326 is out-of-service, and apparently waiting to be scrapped. It's been on the scrap line for weeks.
1996 RTS's #'s 9050 & 9186 have been added to the 126th Street Depot fleet.
9050 for some reason was in FP for a few days a couple of years ago (saw it on a Sunday laying over @ 64th/Grand), and 9186 started at FP. That bus has bounced around between various depots. FP will get it back around scrap time!
Thank You all for your additions and personal updates, the roster has been adjusted accordingly!
Any other omissions or anything else missed, e-mail me @ tlogan@transitalk.com
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Better go back up to Mannyville and check for more repowers. To my knowledge there's also #8250 and #8290 that's milling around with the new engines.
8250 is a 126th resident and I already had it noted as a repower! But Thanx!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Trevor add 8383 to that mix from QV. 8357 IS NOT repowered. Saw her on my travels on Friday run 007 but in due time she will be repowered.
#8383 Q36
I noticed that you have included #4326 as scrapped. I want to be clear with my message, if I wasn't earlier:
RTS #4326 is on the scrap line, and hasn't been in service for weeks BUT it has not yet been scrapped. It still contains a farebox, and seems to contain all salvagable parts to date.
It wouldn't be correct to list this bus as scrapped, but rather "Out of Service". Once they pull the farebox, it's all over. Until then, anything is possible.
Yeah, I'm not suprised when I see FP ordering more buses that aren't going to last too long.
That's why I will always give FP the worst ranking.
BTW To Big Al, FP constantly uses their 4600's and 4700's, see them all the time(esp. on the B52). And they are dirt, not clean. They only look clean on the outside. And 103 Novas is nothing! And 41 TMC's is nothing, 87'RTS's don't count! It just doesn't impress me, at all. However I think UP gets treated unfairly also, they should get more Novas and TMC's too, not using suburbans on regular routes.
You complain too much. If you lived in Queens you'd have alot to complain about. You're bitching about buses that are only 14 years old. HELLO! PA1767 in Queens is about to turn 20 and 2270 in S.I. is on her way to 21. You could have THOSE buses rolling through your neighborhood. Be thankful or else WALK!!!!!!!!
Well said RTS_2150. DaRidgewoodBusBuff needs to suck it up. Granted, FP has a LOT of 1987 TMC's (101), but every depot has their share of clunkers running around. For example, today on the Q5 Merrick route was 4596--a 1986 GMC RTS, and on the Q85 was 4218--a 1985 RTS. If you look around Brooklyn and The Bronx you would find similar examples. FP has a younger fleet than JAM and QV, so complain to the maintainers at DaRidgewoodDepot.
Mark
I'm sorry, I know I get angry with FP a lot and complain about it too much. I know you guys near JA have been through the same thing. I know I sound too harsh when talking about FP depot, it's because I see ENY and FLA getting treated so good. My expectations for FP aren't that high, I wouldn't mind getting the 87'GMC's if there were a couple of 90'TMC's(or newer) during this almost 3 year drought of getting nothing newer than 1987. And like I said before, FP dominates my area. FP buses are the only thing you're going to see in Ridgewood, except for Triboro's Q39 on Forest Av. FP just went downhill after Jan. 1999. Every other depot managed to get something newer than 1987, except FP and HP. But Hudson Pier has reason not to get anything newer than 1987, because they're closing down.
Do I want FP to have everything newer than the other depots? Of course not. Do I want to see a couple newer buses? That would be nice. Getting rid of the 85'GMC's for 87'GMC's was pointless. In 1999 the 85'GMC's were 14 years old. Now its almost 2002 and the 87'GMC's are going to be 15 years old. So their buses hasn't changed a bit if you look at it that way..
I'm sorry if I sounded too harsh in my past posts, but my opinion of FP will stay the same.
-Jay
I hear what you are saying but HP has excellent equipment and maintainance. That is why we have more up to date equipment. I personally like FP, my Mother lives in Bed-Stuy on the B52 and I must say I like the FP equipment a little more the ENY equipment used on the B15. Hudson Pier has some old equipment also, we have 34xx, 41xx, 45xx, 48xx, along with the usuall suspects, the 82xx,84xx, 85xx, 94xx, 95xx, 96xx, 519x, 5200-5204. If FP's maintainance would improve then your feelings about the 87 RTS's would change. Maintainace is everything!
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
Are you a driver out of HP?
Nope, But I live right in the heart of the Hudson Pier Operations!
Regards,
DaSahwn
www.transitalk.com
You took the words right out of my mouth, RTS_2150.
I have a splendid idea for DaRidgewoodBusBuff. Instead of crying so much about how Fresh Pond has so many of the worst old buses, why don't you write a letter to transit and ask them to send all the '87 TMC's over to Jamaica and QV depots in exchange for the 1985 & 1986 GMC's from them. Maybe that will make you and everybody else in Queens much more happy campers.
BIG AL
How is 2270 older than 1767?
Actually, it is. 2270 is a 1981 RTS and 1767 is a 1982. The numbers did not run in exact sequence in 1981 & 1982 corresponding to the years. It must be a transit thing.
BIG AL
Yup.
I think the 81's ran 1201-1658, 2201-2579
the 82's were 1659-1858, 2580-2704
something like that
The 1000's were TA, the 2000's were OA.
Re: 1981 TA/OA RTS: Exactly like that!
Wayne
2270 is a vintage 1981 RTS
1981 RTSs were 1201-1658 and 2201-2xxx
1659-1858 and 2xxx-2704 are 1982 RTSs
The differences in numbers is a result of MABSTOA and NYCTA
The OA 1982's are 2580-2704.
Wayne
Hey! What do you have against the dependable 1982 RTS?
Absolutely nothing!
Again: NYCT depots don't order buses and they don't transfer buses. The Department of Buses' central staff orders the vehicles and sends them wherever it sees fit.
David
I was along Grand Ave yesterday and saw mostly 9100s and 9500s operating on the Q58 and Q59. The buses appeared to be very dirty and run down looking but at least they have newer buses unlike QV which still has the most GMC's operating in NYC. QV has remans 7001-7037, 1751, 1767, 1773, 1852, 3503, 3562, 3807, 3818, 3824, various 3900s 4100s 4300s and 4400s and also 4501. 4600s and 4700s are TMC's. They're 1987 buses. At least FP doesn't have as many as GMCs as QV has. Be happy that you have TMC buses and not GMC buses that are outdated.
#1767 Q46
#4733 Q59
#9153 Q58
Artic 5402 back at Gun Hill, also add Orions 406 and 407 to the GH roster.
AMEN....
Surprisingly, I saw a 3900 on the Q58 on Sunday. Of course, it looked and sounded good, and no customers were complaining or refusing to get on...
Due to Bronx Division receiving more artics.
310 and 231 from CS are not repowered yet. Saw both last week.
Saw 231 on the Q74 on Thursday on the Q74-looked horrible.
#231 Q74
Saw 231 on the Q74 on Thursday-looked horrible.
#231 Q74
275 - stengel - not done either
saw 2 days in a row on 44/20
I find myself hear the correct pronounciations for a lot of products in the industry. Here is a few:
Prevost is pronounced Prey-Vo (I hear people say Pre Vost)
Balios is prononuced Bailey-Ose (I hear people say Bal-E-Ose)
Bombardier is pronounced Bomb-Bar-Dee-Air (I Hear people say Bomb-Bar-Deer)
Flxible is pronounced Flexible (You don't know how many times I hear people say Flix-a-ble)
Annotation: NABI pronounced Na-Bee (I Here some people say Nay-Bi)
Orion is pronounced Or-I-on (I here some people say Orie-On)
If anybody has any more to add, go ahead!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Good list Trevor . . . I've also heard Bombardier pronounced as bom-bar-dee-ay, which I guess is the French/Canadian pronunciation. Depends on which side of the border you're on, I suppose . . .
C
Most People I head pronounce NABI as "Nob-Bee" instead of "Nah-Bee" - Which is Correct?
I'm sure there are a lot of localities people know of which are pronounced differently by the locals than the outsiders, such as "Mar-ga-REEET Orthodox" on the SEPTA el, or "Ahl-nee" on the Broad Street.
Its more Nob-Bee than Nah-Bee!
Trevor
Trevor, how about the DINA VAGIRO? I dont know about the spelling, but I always wonder how its pronounced. AKA Marcopolo
Dina Viaggo is pronounced Dee-na Vee-aah-go
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Dino VAGIRO? Oh boy...either that bus is a feminine hygiene supplement or it will stop men from being flaccid for sure...Dino VIAGRA. LOL!
-F.
Hehehehe, I heard someone callone of them once a DINA VIAGRA!!!!
Think it'll "keep up" on the highway? LOL...when it hits a car, it hits it HARD!!!
-F.
"NOB-bee"? Oh my...that is just terrible! Remind me to ask Baltimore MTA about their new "Knobby" buses.
-F.
I know what you mean, Trevor...it makes me want to strangle someone when they say "GRUE-man" or "Gill-ing". SHEEZE...how hard can it be?
-F.
Maybe if so many of these manufacturer's names weren't French, we wouldn't have so many problems with them!! :-)
LOL..maybe we should call them Le Bus. It worked with Renault!
-F.
Pronounciations (sic) is both spelled and pronounced "pronunciations".
If there was, tell me where it used to be, and what depot it was owned by. Also tell me what depot owned the B5.
Q56- RTS TMC #8692 (GMC #4408 was rejected)
Q55- RTS TMC #8169
-
All RTS 85'GMC's must die!
I do know a B10 used to run a route similar to the present day B15.
The B5 depot was Ulmer Park in Bath Beach.
There were buses with those designations. The B10 is the B15 without the JFK extension. The B19 was a downtown shuttle route that started at the Atlantic Ave LIRR station. The B21 was swallowed up by the B1 around 1980.
I believe the B-21 was an Emmons Ave or Mermaid Ave bus, similar to the B-74?
The B-5 ran from Flatbush Ave to Canal Ave via Kings Highway out of Ulmer Park depot. My dad drove that route in the 70's, and my brother and I would meet him with coffee in-hand, as we lived up the block from the bus stop :-)
There was a B5 and a B50. They were combined into the B82.
The B-21 was called the "Plum Beach" route, according to the paper transfers issued. One end started at Knapp Street and Voorhees Ave, where the current B-4 route starts, and the other end was at Kingsborough Community College in Manhattan Beach. The B-4 took over the Emmons Ave-Neptune Ave segment, the B-36 took over the Avenue Z segment, and the B-49 took over the West End Ave-Oriental Blvd segment. This all happened on that infamous date, November 12th, 1978, when a number of Brooklyn bus routes were changed, re-numbered, or re-routed.
I just noticed that "Barry" posted the correct info, I forgot about the Brighton Beach Ave segment, which the B-1 took over, as well as the Oriental Blvd segment as well. Forget I even mentioned the B-49. It's very late, and I was going by what turned out to be my bad memory, I aplologize!
nov 12,1976 b21 stopped running and was replaced by b1 and b4 routes.
that sould read nov 12 1978.
b21 was a combination of the current B4 and B1 route. it ran between Oriental Boulevard-Mackenzie Street to Vorihees Avenue-Knapp Street.
B5 orignally operated out of Ulmer Park-it was discontinued when the B82 was put in service.
The B-10 is the current B-15 route. The number was changed when the route was extended to JFK Airport to avoid confusion with the Green Line Route Q-10
The B-19 Carlton Avenue route operated from Ashland/Hanson Place(Flatbush Ave LIRR Station) to Grand/Park Avenues near the old Brooklyn Navy Yard. Prior to 1961 it was designated B-19 Navy Yard.
The line was discontinued in the late 1980's or early 1990's because of low ridership. It should be noted that because of changes in the area the line would be more useful if it was in operation today.
The B-21 Brighton Beach Avenue ran from Mackenzie Street/Oriental Blvd to Knapp St/Voohries Ave. The route was discontinued in November 1978 as part of the Southwest Brooklyn Service Changes and replaced by the current B-1,B-36 and B-4 routes.
The B-19 was assigned to 5th Ave now Jackie Gleason and the B-21 was assigned to Ulmer Park
Thank You
Thank you Barry for the info!
-Jay
Okay SEPTA-philes, here`s another quiz on SEPTA routes. This Time is Named Routes to Numbers. I'll give you the named route, You give me the number (or in 1 case, the new name) of these routes. So without further delay, here they are:
1)Mid-City Loop (this changed a couple of times. What were the changes?)
2)Blvd Ltd
3)FOX
4)Airport Express (what was the unique thing about this route when it was changed?)
1. The Mid-City Loop originally operated along Chestnut and Walnut Sts. In the early 1990's, it became Route 76 and was extended east to Penn's Landing, and west to the Ben Franklin Parkway museums and the Philadelphia Zoo. Tomorrow (Monday, 12.03), the 76 becomes the "Spree", which will operate between 6 & 20 Sts via Chestnut/Market and Walnut, essentially the old Mid-City Loop routing with a few minor changes.
2. Route 1
3. Route 8
4. No idea.
Ctrabs74, You`re right on the first three. Now on number 4, here's the explaination, The Airport Express was a route started by SEPTA in the 1970's as a response to a strike by cab drivers. It was successful, so SEPTA kept it in operation. In 1984, the BUS route discontinued and (in a uniqie way), replaced by the R1 Airport RAIL line.
M1 City Hall
Park Pl
(revision)
M6 City Hall
Park Pl
M9 Bat Pk City
via Water St
Bx13 3 Av
revised from Bx13 Washtn Av
These are ALL REVISIONS
x1 West Midtown
Cntrl Pk S.
via Water St
via 6 Av
X3 Downtown
Frankfrt St
via Water St
X4 Downtown
Frankfrt St
via Water St
X10 East Midtown
57 St
via Water St
via Madison
ALL THESE SIGNS ARE REVISIONS
x11 Downtown
Frankfrt St
via Water St
X12 Downtown
Frankfrt St
via Water St
X12 West Midtown
57 st
via water st
via Madison
X13 Downtown
via Water St
X14 West Midtown
57 st
via F D R Dr
via Madison
X15 Downtown
Frankfrt St
via Water St
X16 Downtown
Frankfrt St
via Water St
X17 East Midtown
57 st
via Water St
Via Madison
ALL THESE SIGNS ARE REVISIONS
X17 Arden Hts
Hugenot Av
via New Jersey
via Drmgle
X18 Downtown
Frankfrt St
via Water St
X19 Downtown
Frankfrt St
via Water
X20 Downtown
Frankfrt St
via Water St
X21 Pleasnt Plains
Bloomingdle Rd
via New Jersey
via Rossvil
X22 Tottenville
via New Jersey
Via Amboy Rd
X25 Downtown
Bat Pk City
X27 Midtown
57 st
via Water St
via Madison
DELETE
X27 Super Exp
Bay Ridge
Shore Rd
X28 Midtown
57 st
via Water
via Madison
DELTE
x31 S I Mall
x31 East Midtown
57 st
via New Jersey
via Madison
(Rev.)
X31 NW Sprngvil
AR Kill Rd
via New Jersey
(Revision)
X37 Midtown
57 st
via F D R Dr
via Madison
X37 Bay Ridge
Shore Rd
Via F D R Dr
X38 Midtown
57 st
via F D R Dr
via Madison
x38 Bensonhurst
Cropsey Av
via F D R Dr
x38 Coney Island
sea Gate
via F D R Dr
X42 West Midtown
57 st
via F D R DR
x42 Mariners Hbr
South Av
via F D R Dr
X90 Downtown
Battery Pl
(revision)
update my
community-1.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT/
as always ,,I DO NOT give out code numbers
X37
X38
will appear on Ulmer Park Readings
X42 will appear on Castlteton and Yukon Readings
As of about five minutes ago, RTS 9654 is on 86th Street (eastbound) east of West End Avenue. It's been sitting there for at least a half hour. What's going on, and how on earth did an RTS end up on the M86? (Run 6, if that helps.)
Perhaps as like GBL, he tried pulling out an Artic that was defunct and wound up taking 9654? Otherwise clueless.
#9654 M86
But RTSs are never used on the M86. I live right near it. I walk along 86th Street all the time. Always artics. Days, nights, weekends, weekdays -- never an RTS.
I could understand if, on a weekday, an RTS had to occasionally stray onto the line. But on a Sunday afternoon, there should be plenty of artics sitting around.
(Don't get me wrong -- I wouldn't mind at all if some RTSs were still used on the M86, as long as the appropriate schedule adjustment is made. I'm just very surprised.)
It's quite possible that the operator is a new hiree who has not yet been trained on an articulated bus.
It's also possible that the bus was swapped from another line (originally pulled-out an articulated, notified console of an apparent defect, and a replacement bus from another line sent while the artic was taken back to the garage).
It's possible that when the operator reported to the yard SLD for a bus, maintenance brought an RTS to the front for pull-out, hence the SLD sending out the bus, rather than having it drilled and parked.
Anything's possible. Why not ask the operator himself?
Someone told me that they were now working for the MTA as a mechanic at a garage right near Ground Zero? How true is this? Is there a bus garage anywhere near ground zero? the closest one I know of is Hudson Pier on 14th Street and 10th Ave.
As indicated, Hudson Pier is the closest NYCT depot to "Ground Zero."
David
This one makes no sense to me. Saw #645(GMC RTS) on QM15 route on 6th Avenue yestrday. I know this line is a express route,but why would green lines operate a local bus on it? Couldnt they put out one of the orion V express buses that they have? It's not like the bus is there all day. Can someone explain this move?
I've seen 289 628 633 and 650 on the QM15 before. Green Lines is short on Express Buses: 719-722 are the Orions from NYBS and 701-702 are MCI Classics. If you don't see the Express Buses, you either see a 5500 or an 1100. I usually see an 1100 (1147, 1174, 1177 etc).
Why 645 was on the QM15 beats me. This would be my only assumption:
The driver tried to pull out a 5500 or a 700 Orion and it was a defunct so since there was nothing else in the yard at that time, he pulled out 645.
Every morning around 930am I see bus 1174 deadheading down Queens Blvd probably from the QM15 as well.
Hope this helps.
#633 QM15
MMMMMM, I didn't know the QM15 operates on Saturday! Nevertheless, nothing that the Queens privates do suprises me. Even Triboro Coach, who regularly assigns soft seat CNG Orions to local routes, had one of those '85/'86 hard seat RTS on an express route, saw it while I was passing over the LIE one morning last week. I would hope that these companies assign these old rattletraps when the intended assigned newer bus is unable to leave the depot at the last moment and the only substitutes are the old stuff.
And I don't think the old Triboro RTS's were ever re-powered. They still use the 6V-92 I think.
I just saw another bus on TV; in the Homedics massager commercial, there is a great shot of a therapist steps off of NYCTA RTS no. 2606.
I'm not sure what vintage the bus is or if that is even an actual fleet number; does anyone else know about it? Let me know; thanks!
-Fred Donaher
"The Coach Potato"
The 2600's are (were) 1982 RTSs; I don't know about 2606 in particular. (Great buses.)
I'll bet; those are the ones with the 6v71 and I understand most of them are still in service at nearly 20 years of age.
On a lighter note, 2606 is also the number of a 1987 Flxible Metro B currently in service at Blacksburg Transit...it also features the 6v71 and is one of my favorite buses there. :)
-F.
Fred -
2606 (actually PA2606) was one of the 1982 GM RTS (1660-1858 TA, 2580-2704). All of them came with the DD 6V-92TA engine. All 1981's (except 1288-1317, 2281-2300) and all 1983 came with the DD 6V-71N engine.
Wayne
I see; thanks for the info!
-Fred
nyct 2606 no longer exists. only 2660 survives.
I see...was it scrapped? Maybe the one in the commercial was "typecast" by creative numbering...who knows. I do seem to remember the number 2606 though.
-F.
That's the real 2606 (1982 T8W204); it's owned by Blue Water Bus Center. IIRC, it was also the bus in the "Quit Yet?" antismoking campaign.
Oh wow...how cool! I was afraid it was long gone. What exactly is the Blue Water Bus Co.?
-F,
Artics are a rare beast in Los Angeles, so yesterday afternoon when I had some free time I decided to take a ride on one of the OCTA New Flyer D60LFs in neighboring Orange County. I caught one on the #29 route at Knott's Berry Farm and rode it for a little more than an hour to Huntington Beach.
When I boarded, I went to the rear of the bus and took a forward facing seat just in front of the rear wheels. I had expected some side to side swaying, but there was none either turning corners or switching traffic lanes. Once I realized the rear wheels were pushing the bus rather than the center axle, that made sense, since swaying is something which occurs with a trailer.
One thing that did bother me though was the up and down motion. When the front wheels went up to go over a slight rise in the road surface, I could see the windshield going up, but since the connecting area between the middle axle and the rear axle was lowered, the seat I was in pitched forward (ever so slightly). When the middle axle went over the rise, the windshield went down, but now the seat pitched back, and finally when the rear axle went over the rise there was lifting motion which had no relation to what my eyes were seeing looking forward through the windshield.
It took me a few minutes to get used to this action, and I was starting to get a bit of motion sickness until I got my "sea legs." The cause of the malaise was the difference between what my eyes were seeing and what my body felt. I doubt that anyone looking out a side window or reading a newspaper would have noticed this at all.
Of course I can not know what the driver was experiencing, but this bus, which has the bend in the center as opposed to the NABI which is more like 2/3 in front and 1/3 in the rear, seemed to be at least as maneuverable as a 40' straight bus if not more so when turning on narrow streets. From a rider's point of view it was quite comfortable, and the acceleration, braking and noise level was similar to a 40' straight bus. If the B/O is getting a pay differential for driving this bus rather than a 40' straight bus, it appears to be easy money.
I noticed there were only one or two other artics on this route that day. Most of the other buses that I saw going the other way were 40 ft buses. It rather surprised me that several times during this Saturday afternoon, more than 90% of the seats on the bus were occupied.
Tom
Wow...what a ride. Bet it was interesting! I'll never forget my first artic ride; it was in March, 1997 on a day trip to DC. My girlfriend (at the time) and I were finishing up a great lunch at a restaurant in Chinatown when suddenly no. 5207 stopped outside heading north, so at my request, we sprang up, paid the check, left a nice tip, and ran outside.
As we rounded to board, I tried to figure out what make this strange-looking thing was (turns out it was a NABI). We got on, paid the 2.00 fare; much to my dismay, the driver was somewhat rude (then again, he WAS lugging around 60 feet of bus) yet we rode on anyway. I found the ride to be quite interesting, what with the turning "manhole cover" in the middle of the floor and all. (I also thought to myself, "How the hell does that little engine behind me push the REST of the bus?". When we found out we were almost to the MD border, we jumped out and tried to find a bus going back towards the Smithsonian, where we were to meet our group within an hour. For every bus not heading south, it seemed there were 70 heading the other way.
Finally, after 30 to 45 minutes, we hopped onto Flx Metro no. 9813 and found the driver to be pleasant and helpful. My biggest observance was that not only did the bus have bell cords (as opposed to the tape I was used to on Metro Bs and Grumman 870s in my area), this bus had a strange-sounding engine that sounded NOTHING like the 6v71s in the above Flxes (I later found out it was a Cummins L10, nee ISL). And that concluded my travels.
I can't wait to go back and ride again; if only I made it up there before the GM and Flx New Looks were bid farewell. Oh well, at least I still have the Metros....hopefully for a good while.
-F.
Whoops, scratch that...I meant M11E in the 9813...that is now known as the Cummins ISM. Thanks Trevor!
-F.
Sundays they try and do all the defect repairs on the artics, so that they will be available for full service during the week.
If you rode the 29, it is ALWAYS 90% full most of the day at almost any point on the route. I used to drive it whenit went all the way up to (Guada) La Habra Blvd, then all the way across th Brea Mall. Believe me, my ass was sore after doing that long trip, as you had to drive hard the whole way just to stay on schedule with all the traffic lights on Beach Blvd. I hated that route.....
I've seen the Verrazano Bridge traffic backed up for the last 2 days during the week. I know this affects X1,X10,X17 and S53/S93 and S79(and this was during 1pm in the weekday)-are schedules adjusted to the local lines during traffic tie-ups and what is the contigenty plan if S53 or S79 buses get stuck in brooklyn?
It is the job of the Surface Line Dispatcher to adjust service on the road. Rarely, if ever, will a schedule be pre-adjusted. Instead, the SLD on the post will deadhead a bus, put him in place, or request from Road Control additional service via extra as-assigned or as-needed runs.
the contingency plan is you will wind up waiting for the delayed bus.
northbound from Quentin Rd via Quentin Rd,Coney Island ,Kings Hwy ,Lenox Road ,,via regular route T Boyland ,Elder St,Left on Broadway ,,Left on Hancock St,left on Saratoga,,to near side of Halsey St
SB via Saratoga Av,and regular
Is this reroute due to traffic conditions in the area?
to alleviate some bad left turns onto Bwy
via regular route to Glenwood Road and Rockaway Parkway via Glenwood Road ,East 103 st ,FLatlands Av and regular
westbound routing is unchanged
Southbound
from East 42 st and Park Av via East 42 ,2 av,34 st, FDR Drve Service Road,,entering at east 26 st,FDR Drtive,East 23 st exit into ,Av C,East 18 st, ,,entrance to FDR Drive ,exit at exit 2A Civic Center,Robt Wagner Place,Pearl St in St James Place,worth St,West Broadway , Chambers St,River Terrace ,,Vessey St,to terminate at North End av
Northbound
from Vessey st and North End Av via Vessey st,North End Av,Chambers St,Broadway ,Park Row,,Frankfort St,North Bound FDR ,20/23 st exit,,East 20 st,1 av,east 42 to terminate at Park Av
Northbound
from stand on Thames St at South end Av via Thames St,Battery Place,State St,Water St,Pearl St,St James Place,East Broadway Clinton St,,Grand St,Essex St,Houston st,Avenue B,,East 14 st,,3 av,East 15,noth on 4 av,to nearside of 14 st
Southbound
from stand on 4 av ,east on 14 st,Av B,Houston st,Essex st,East Broadway ,St James Place,,Pearl st, Water St,,State St,Battery Place ,Thames St to South End Av
M9 UNion SQ
M9 Bat Pk City
M9 Chatham Sq
[Northbound... East 14 st,,3 av,East 15,noth on 4 av,to nearside of 14 st]
Something doesn't jive. If you head east on 15th Street and north on 4th Avenue, the next intersection is 16th street. You are north of 14th street and don't intersect with it.
I know the old routing was via 15th Street, but I thought the revised route took the M9 south of 14th Street.
The M9 Timetable on the MTA website shows the northbound buses going west on 14th Street, south on 3rd Avenue, west on 13th Street and north on 4th Avenue. I assume you meant to type in "East 13" rather than "East 15".
Union Square
from Stand on 4th Av ,,east on East 14 st,South on Avenue B,West on Houston St...etc etc
From Battery Park City
North on Essex St,East on Houston St,,North on Avenue B,West on East 14 st,South on 3 Av,West on East THIRTEENTH,,North on 4th Av,to a terminal ,,near side of East 14 st
Is the stand on Thames also for the M20? I complained a few years back that people returning from the Jewish Heritage Museum had to walk an additional 4 blocks to Albany St. to board the M9 or M20. I am glad they moved the stand.
Southbound from Yorkville
on 92 st near side of York Av via South on York Av,East 55 st,,2 av,,east 34 st,,FDR Drive ,,exit at South St ,, ,Wagner Dr,Pearl St,,Water St,State St,Battery Place to west St
Northbound
on Battery Place and West via Battery Place, State Street ,Water St,Pearl St,Wagner Drive,South St,FDR Drive ,exit at 20 st,,east 20 st,1 av,east 72, York Av,91 st,to far side of York Av
X90 YORKVILLE
X90 York ---92 st
X90 Downtown
X90 Battery Pl
via east 72 st,North on York av
Staten Island Bound Buses
regular via 7 av to 42 st
Left on 42 st to 5 av
Right on 5 av
regular route
Bus Stop at 8 av ,far side of 50 st
Discontinue stop at
50 st at Rockefller Plaza
and
5 av at 48 st
X14 via FDR Drive effective December 10 ,2001
X17 B trips ,X21 X22 X31 ,,to Staten Island Via New Jersey ,,effective December 10 ,2001
X27 X28 and X37 X38 Midtown Direct Effective December 10,2001
X12 and X42 Midtown Direct ,,via FDR X42 ,,Effective ,,December 10 ,,2001
X92 restored to regular route on Dec 2,2001
BRONX DIVISION
Amsterdam
Bx3
Bx6
Bx13
Bx15
M100
M101
M104
Gun Hill
,Bx1,4,5,8,9 , 12, 14, 16,17,22,25,26 ,27 ,28 , 29
Bx 30,31,34,36,39,40,42
Kingsbridge
Bx 1,2,3,7,9,10, 11, 13, 16 ,bx18 ,20, 28, 31,32, 33
Bx 35,36 ,39,41,42,45
Mother Clara Hale
Bx19
Bx21
Bx33
M1
M7
M30,
m98
Lenox Av Shuttle
MANHTTAN DIVISION
126th Street
M15,M31,,M35,57,66,116
Manhattanville
M2, 3,4,5,18,60,96,101 103 106
Hudson
M6 ,8 9 11 14 16 21 22 34
Q(ueens) 32
Michael J Quill
M10 20 23 27 30 42 ,50 72 79 86 96 98 ,102 106
X92 and X90
BROOKLYN DIVISION
East new York
B7 8 12 14 17 20 25 40 42 45,60 82 83
Q24 Q56
Jackie Gleason
B9 11 16 23 35 37 43 51 61 63 67 65 68 69 70 71
B75 B77
Flatbush
B2 6 31 39 41 44 46 49 78
Fresh Pond
B13 18 20 24 26 38 39 48 52 54 57
Q54 55 58 59
Ulmer Park
B1 2 4 6
B36
B64 b74
X25 27 28 29 37 38
QUEENS DIVISION
Casey Stengel
Q12 13 14 15 16 20A 20B 26 27 28 32 44 48
Q58 74 76
X51
Jamaica
Q 3 4 5 17 42
Q77 Q84 Q85
X63 X64
Queens Village
Q1 2 30 31
Q36 43 46 75 79 83 88
X32 X68
STATEN ISLAND BUS DIVISION
Castleton
X2 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 20 30
X42
S40 42
S44 46 48 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 59 61 66 67 74 76
S78 81 90 92 93 94 96 98
Yukon
X1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 15 17 19 21 22 31
S54 55 56 59 61 74 76 78 78 91
how about the bx.55x what garage it's assign.
Growing up the B 17 and B42 was from Flatbush how come now they are from ENY?
There is no room in Flatbush for them.
That was not the case when they were transferred in 1987. At that time the TA was to modernize Flatbush and Ulmer Park Depots. The following line changes were to be temporary only.
B-1 Ulmer Park to Jackie Gleason(5th Avenue)
B-9 Ulmer Park to Jackie Gleason(5th Avenue)
B-11 Flatbush to Jackie Gleason(5th Avenue)
B-17 Flatbush to East New York
B-20 East New York to Fresh Pond
B-42 Flatbush to East New York
B-65 East New York to Jackie Gleason(5th Avenue).
In the case of B-9,B-11,B-17,B-42 and B-65 temporay is a long time but at least the B-1 and part of the B-20 returned to their old depots.
Thank You
thanks
Kingsbridge says Bx45==should be 55
Will there be bus fleet changes as well as the route changes?
unknown,,i only deal with routes and signs
You can expect minor bus moves to the depots where there will be increases in runs.
You missed the B15, East New York.(No pun intended...LOL!)
Bx1, Bx9, and Bx36 do not come out of GH.
in some cases,,these are NEW changes,,other cases,,,split depot operation
BX1 King and GH ,Split Depot
Bx9 Same
Bx8 GH
Bx36 Split Depot
Effective Jan 6 2002
You have got to be kidding me! The Bx1 needs to be split! What about the Bx2? Will that be split as well? KB has plenty of buses and they need help on the Bx1? Also, why a split on the Bx8, Bx9 and Bx36? GH is doing a good job on the Bx8 by themselves! This makes no sense to me. Then again, it's the MTA. The same MTA that would not order any NABI's!
Ray
the bx31 is spilt now! what going on .does that mean more artics
Okay, wait a minute. No offense but this has GOT to be a planning process. The Q58 will be split between FP and CS? Then you got the M106 split between MV and MJQ? All of these changes are do to the shortage of buses? This is very weird BUT thanks for sharing this info Steve!
Ray
I have heard rumors about the Q58 being split between FP and CS for a long time. I don't know if it will be done on a large scale on 1/6/02 or it will be kept the way it is now: CS having a few after school runs which run from Flushing and terminate at Queens Blvd./Broadway. But the TA does have some logic for splitting routes between depots on a larger scale. Take the Q58. You need heavy early AM service out of Ridgewood in order to bring the AM rush crowd out of Flushing. If the route is split between the 2 depots, the TA would not have to send as much early service from Ridgewood. Just pull 'em out of CS and the first trip of the bus is at Main St. rather than Ridgewood an the TA feels that they do not have to send a out virtually empty bus so early in the morning. Reverse the process for the PM rush. Saving a half trip here and a half trip there can save the TA money in operating expenses.
OMG, MTA Orions in Ridgewood, I thought I would never see the day. However CS buses might not actually go to Ridgewood, it might only complete some of the Q58, just like ENY buses for the B20 only going up to Bway Junc.
I would be very surprised to see Orions around here and seeing them parked on Palmetto St. Everyone is going to be shocked to something they never seen before in Ridgewood like Orions.
Let me reinterate. I did not say Orions in Ridgewood. I do not know if the whole route will be split with CS effective 1/6/02. It bears repeating what I said previously: currently the route is split with CS solely for the purpose of running a few after school specials from Main to Queens Blvd. That is the extent of CS' current involvement. When I talk to a bus operator friend from FP whenever they start picking, he will be able to tell me if indeed the entire route will be split as of 1/6/02.
Please note,,i just report this material ,,to assist you and keep you up to date with various issues
I do NOT know the whys and the wherefores of things happening internally or politically----i work for the Fire Dept
I will be reporting Agendas notes,,and destination signs readings,,various operational changes regarding Bus Routes
Everything comes from offical sources,is not opinionated ,,I leave out the Codes out of requests from my sources
I do need your help in obtaining the new R44 R46 readings
or the Routing materials on LI Buses
Thanks
Steve
You may recall that FP was promised Orions in 1993. It was determined that they could not fit in the garage.
The right side mirrors would have been knocked off in the bus wash. As it turns out, based on all the problems with the Orions coupled to FP maintance issues and the tough operating conditions incurred by Brooklyn Division buses, it was just as well.
Of course, FP is denied to have anything. FP would rather have 87'GMC's. FP was never meant to be an Orion depot. RTS's fit much beter in FP than Orions ever could.
RTS's are the only buses that FP should ever have. Orions don't look right in Ridgewood, besides RTS's dominate the Brooklyn Division. I just wish FP had a better RTS fleet. It seems ENY and FLA get everything, leaving FP and UP with nothing. If ENY or FLA ever had their TMC's or Novas transfered to a different division(like Queens), I would be very pissed off. FP and UP deserve their buses more than any other depot if ENY or FLA were having their buses transfered.
The Queens Division can have the Orions, just don't take any of Brooklyn's TMC's and Novas, QV and JA doesn't deserve them. Queens should get TMC's/Novas from Manhattan or the Bx, just leave Brooklyn's RTS TMC/Nova fleet alone.
I really hope this Jan.6 change isn't going to let ENY and FLA have more TMC's/Novas. I hope FP and UP doesn't get dumped once again. I'll just have to wait and see what happens.
I don't want that post I just did to became a huge argument, so that is the last one I will make dealing with FP's bus fleet. I won't make other one until January, when I notice any fleet change in the Brooklyn Division.
-
All RTS 85'GMC's must die!
-Jay
I really doubt that the Q-58 will be split between Fresh Pond and Casey Stengel. The reason unions.
Brooklyn is TWU and Queens is Amaglmated. Several years ago the TA attempted to transfer the Q-56 from East New York to Jamica. The TWU stopped that.
Yes it was true that the Q-32 was split between Hudson and Stengel in March of 1995 but do not forget that Hudson is OA and not TA. It was also that a number of jobs were transferred from OA to TA when the M-31 absorbed the M-58(an OA route) sometime before(I believe late 1994). Also at the same time to compensate the OA the M-22 was transferred from 126th St(TA) to Hudson(OA) and that a small number of jobs were transferred to Queens.
The only was the Q-58 can be split is if the Q-44 can be split between Stengel and Colusieam(OA) once that depot reopens but it really doesn't make sense to do that. What will happen if a Bronx bus breaks down at 165th St and Archer. Thats a long way to send a piggy back especially late at night. But i do not believe that this will happen. The TWU is very strong in Brooklyn and all hell will break lose if they try
Thats my opinion
Thank You
An arbitrator found that NYC Transit has the unilateral right to move routes between authorities (TA/OA) and union "jurisdictions" (TWU/ATU) as it sees fit.
David
David,
That is correct. But the unions can still stop it by refusing to pick assignments.
Believe me the unions can still play a major role in the operation of the system
Thank You
"But the unions can still stop it by refusing to pick assignments."
That is a delaying tactic at best. There are ways around it, all perfectly legal and within the boundaries of the contract.
David
its worth noting that since roger toussaint has become twu pres. twu and atu local 726 have become extremely close.
[...CS having a few after school runs which run from Flushing and terminate at Queens Blvd./Broadway.]
Actually, those "after-school" trips start at Main Street & Reeves Avenue (John Bowne High School) and end at Corona Avenue & Junction Blvd. After that, they either turn right on Junction to pull in, or turn left on Junction to deadhead back to Bowne for the next dismissal.
What about the B15? I assume itt'll still be ENY?
Correct. B15 is staying in East New York.
David
Is the M98 at MCH new? Why the change?
i see Yukon is getting routes back-does this mean the orions are comning back too? Also, Ulmer Park correction, you missed B3 to UP not B2-still at FLA
sorry ,i am not the greatest typist,,especially after working 20 hrs at the FDNY
S78 is out of Castleton AND Yukon???
S79 is out of WHERE?
As stated previously ,,i work long hours at FDNY
, sorry
the S79 is out of Yukon
This material all comes from official documentation
Steve
and of course,,the B2 is out of Flatbush and the B3 is out of Ulmer Park
Tired Steve
I've been thinking about this.
In 1996 in Atlanta, the 1996 Novas first went there for service for the Olympics before coming to NYC.
Now, Will MTA be sending buses to Salt Lake City in 2002?
If yes, which kind of buses will they send?
Seeing that they sent new buses in 1996, my guess would be the MCIs, based on how new they are, but highly unlikely.
Maybe the 3800s and others in storage and others waiting retirement and they will be scrapped after use?
Or maybe Orions 101-172 and Novas 9250-9349????
The MTA will not be sending any buses over to the Olympic Games. They had planned to, but were forced to pull out of their arrangement with Salt Lake City simply because they cannot spare any. We're kind of in a bus shortage. YDWIS(Ya Dig What I'm Sayin').
Mark
I'm on the list of operators to transport Olympic personnel in Salt Lake City. Has the TA changed their plans to send us there regardless of bus usage?
The original plans didn't include our driving buses to Salt Lake City, but rather flying out there to operate whatever buses were assigned.
Pierce Transit of Tacoma, WA is sending 22 orion 1 coaches, Seattle Metro is repordity going to send fifteen Gillig Phantoms down. Anyone have any other information?
All WMATA C40LFs that arrive prior to the Olympics are to go. Bladensburg is not ready for them yet and it satisfies the number of CNG buses they want to have out there.
Correction, Pierce Transit is sending 13 1987 orion 1.508's (401, 403-4, 407, 409-10, 413-419) Is anyone planning on keeping track of who is sending what to SLC?
87 Orion Is? In that case, we may very well see Flxes in SLC just yet! I'd love to hear more about what equipment will go there.
-F.
A few weeks ago, my wife and I were up in Las Vegas...there were three flatbed trucks (with a SLC company name on them...) and atop their beds were RTS's from Omnitrans in San Bernardino, California.
Orange County, California is sending up to 60 buses up there -- I'd guess they are our 1988-1989 Gilligs as those are being retired as new NABI low-floors are being delivered now.
Wow...so the buses are trucked in to SLC? That's neat! Also, I'll bet those NABI low floors will be nice rides.
-F.
>>> I'll bet those NABI low floors will be nice rides. <<<
Not unless they have softer suspension than the ones in Los Angeles. Between the hard seats and hard suspension, I was worried about spinal compression after the driver (with his nice air suspension seat) went over a dip at about 30 mph. It bounced me off the seat and back down onto it. The last time I had that hard a ride was in the back of a deuce and a half in the Army.
Tom
LOL!!! When were you in the Army?
-F.
>>> When were you in the Army? <<<
'59-'62
Tom
Ah, I see; were you in actual combat involved with the Vietnam War?
-F.
>>> were you in actual combat involved with the Vietnam War? <<<
No. I was a cold warrior who helped successfully protect the country and Western Europe from a Russian attack. Our senior NCOs were WWII veterans. At the time I served there were only a relatively few Special Forces MAG people in Viet Nam. The Army was sending around memos for volunteers to go there just before I got out. The big buildup of U.S. forces did not occur until 1964.
Tom
Very cool; thank you for the info!
-Fred
Md MTA will be supplying 24 buses for the Olympics - 6 from each divsion, assumedly all NABIs wearing the state flag scheme. If and when I can obtain coach numbers, I'll post the info!
I hope they send some Flxibles!
-F.
we have some here from other city I don't know what model yet but I get it soon on bus talk
I'm not sure what will happen; I know MARTA supplied some buses in 1996 (Flxible Metros, I think?). I wonder if any Flxes will make it this year as they are all at least 6 years old now? Do they only accept new equipment? I know that the flyers they had for SLC at Blacksburg showed a Gillig Advantage low floor on the cover in MetroBus-style colors with SLC 2002 badging on the sides. Also, one of my Blacksburg alumni was chosen to drive there next year. :)
-F.
I think the Olympics are picky with how old the buses are to be. 6 years may be "too old" for them. Heaven forbid they have something that old!! For the 1996 Olympics, they took WMATA's 4000 series Flx Metro E's. It was cool to see them when they came back with the ads inside for the Olympics, but the outsides were chipped and dinged from the rough use. I fear for the New Flyers when they come here. First, they'll have several thousand miles on them already, then they'll be run to the ground out there. I hope they stil retain that new bus smell, though. Nothing like it!!
I know. I loved that new bus smell when we first got our Gilligs and Thomas SLFs here a couple months ago...nothing like it! Also, do you know if Baltimore sent any Flxibles in 1996?
-F.
That's a good question, I'm not sure. I bet Broadway Express or Trevor might know, though.
I love riding new buses while they have that smell. I guess its from all the vinyl from the seats that cause a lot of it.
They must not be that picky, the equiptment i think Pierce Transit will be sending down is 10-12 years old. Metro will also be sending 6 year old gilligs (with suburban interiors none the less) down.
I would be shocked if SEPTA sent some their New Flyers - either the current 5400 series or the soon to be built 5500 series. I don't know when those buses are scheduled to be built, but if they're built sometime early this year (which I doubt), SEPTA might send a contingent of buses out west. OTOH, I don't think there will be that many buses to spare.
I do recall that the bulk of our NABI order arrived after the Atlanta Olympics in 1996. BARTA (Berks Area Reading Transp. Authority) also sent their new (at the time) C40LF buses to Atlanta as well.
I heard sometime in 2002. All Queens Depots would get D4500's for use on Queens Express Lines. However with QV throwing Suburbans on all of their lines,even Q75 and Q79 being Low Ridership Routes and they Mainly see Suburbans on there. idk if QV would throw them onto other QV Lines,BUT more likely Q75 and Q79 would see a MCI since those Route's are LOW Ridership.
NICE TO SEE THE MCI'S ARE COMMING TO QUEENS! :)
(BTW. Is MJQ going to get D4500's too?)
An MCI running on the Q75, Q79 or Q-anything is nothing more than a pipe dream! The MCIs are "scheduled" to come to Queens by the summer, but guess what the key word in this sentence is. When/if they come, they will be used on express routes only. However, there will be soft seaters still on local routes. They will likely continue to be the Novas and Orions which won't be going anywhere.
Mark
No MCI's will be running on local lines. Also the Nova and Orion Suburbans may be reconverted into local seating. The platforms are screwed in and would be taken out to retrofit the local seating pattern. Only time will tell.
#618 Q46
#9253 Q17
You will never see a MCI on a low-ridership local line.
Hey wouldnt everybody in Queens Division have to get 45- foot qualified or something like that?
They'll probably qualify the guys who pick an express job, the regular extra list guys and the vacation relief guys.
Nope. Every operator in the depot will have to be qualified to drive an MCI before they officially go into service. Just like when the chemical safety class bus comes around, they will ask the operators to sign up to take the training on their free time. Any operator who does not sign up by the last couple of weeks of training will be assigned by the depot.
BIG AL
Quill getting MCIs? That's like the (7) subway line being assigned R142s!!! Or the MTA actually buying NABIs!!!
Point is, it's NOT (AFAIK) going to happen anytime soon!
Quill will only store UP, CAS and YUK MCIs for the evening rush hrs (correct me if I am wrong) and they are not assigned to Quill for the X90/X92.
There is a whole thing I was told about in terms of the reason Quill will not get them...something abou tdistances between the depot and the two terminal, Lower Manhattan and Yorkville...mileage issues as well (again, anyone, correct me on this)...
Responses will be greatly appreciated...
Carlton
a.k.a.
Cleanairbus
Plus, it doesn't make sense, BTW its AM and PM rush. Like if the X25 was a seperate route and considered that, running MCI's is pointless. But since it's sort of integrated into the X27/28/29...There is a point.
Not So fast buddy........Quill is not completely out of the box for MCIs. The deal is that ALL express routes will eventually run MCI Cruisers.
It may not be in the near future, BUT it will eventually happen!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Yeah, Trevor, like I said, Ït's not gonna happen anytime soon!"
Read my last post more carefully and you will see those words there...just a thought...
Yes, it makes sense to put MCIs on the X90/92 due to its ridership in the mornings, but because of (I think) mileage and distance issues, it might not be a good idea to go with that...for the X90/92, either suburban artics or something else...RTS-08s? IDK
Carlton
New Jersey Transit is currently un-happy with the Allison B500 World 6-Speed Transmission currently being placed in the new MCI D4000, D4000N and D4501 Cruisers.
Starting this week, NJT will be demoing a D4000 Cruiser with a 10-Speed ZF Transmission out of the Wayne Garage on the Warick Line which is the 196 and 197 Lines.
If this test works, and this comment here is pure speculation, they will probably start using the ZF transmission in the next round of D4000 Cruisers along with the total order of D4000N and D4501 Cruisers.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Just looked up the spec data on the ZF AS-TRONIC 10-speed automatic...
That thing will be shifting a LOT in NJT service. Imagine one on the 159 going down Bergenline Avenue. That would be going through gears 1-5 every traffic light.
It might do ok on the 196/7, because that is almost a country route, but I'd question it on as the standard-issue transmission when a lot of MCIs do stop and go work in busy suburbs.
A 10-speed automatic transmission? That's got to be a first...
If any more D4000s were sent south, they'd have a heck of a time holding up on the 400-series routes which operate into Center City Philadelphia.
[Imagine one on the 159 going down Bergenline Avenue.]
As far as I know, Cruisers are never used on the 159. Weekdays you generally see the Volvo artics, while on weekends the 3000 series Flxibles.
Nevertheless, I do agree that there are some Cruiser routes, e.g. the 128 (and its related 165, 166, 168 locals), where a 10-speed automatic may be a bit of overkill.
Yes, we tackled this issue BUT Jay, Fresh Pond has buses 5055-5074 and 9569-9605. Those buses are 3 to 4 years old. I use to live in Queensand while you was happy with FP getting the 4600's and 4700's as brand new buses, CS was shipping their old buses to JAM and QV when they got the 3900's in 1985 and the 4300's in 1986 (I think)! Point being, when CS got the Orions in 1993, JAM and QV got the 1500's, 2200's, 3200's, 3900's and 4300's (4321-4345). Also they got some 1400's, 2300 and 2400's as well. The 2500's (2580-2586) came from I THINK MCH! Anyway, Queens got it worse than you so if anything and knowing the MTA, FP will probably get new bus before JAM does. QV is getting Orions VII (At least I think)!
Ray
Just for the record, FP did not get the 4600's and 4700's brand new. Gleason, UP and FLAT did. Before 1996, FP last got brand new buses in 1985, the 1987's and 1990's were hand me downs.
Didn't Jackie Gleason have the 4600-4722 first?
-Jay
nope. it went like this, if i remember it:
4600-4682-JG.
4683-4722-UP
4723-4752 were initially assigned to FLAT, IIRC. When I moved to Maspeth in 1990, FP received some 4600's from JG (4668 to 4682 I think) and 4723 to 4752 from FLAT. My first ride on a 4700 was 4744 on the B57. 4668/4669 were eventually returned to JG. In 1993, FP received the 1990's from FLAT (several but not all #'s from 8131 to 8171). FLAT received new 8400's in their place. In 1996, when the 9100's came to FP, several in the 9140 series (Cummins 6 cyl engine) had FLAT stickers. I do not know if FLAT ever ran them in service tho.
I guess 4668 & 4669 weren't at FP too long. I never saw these buses at FP. Were these ever used on Q54 service?
you guys complaining? At Ulmer Park they had #5075-#5099 and sent them over to Flatbush. What did Ulmer Park get for local service? CRAP!!! The 9100's are cool, so is #4497 and #4742. But the 7500's and the 4700's from Amsterdam are putrid. If there is complaints about the 4700's at FP, send them back to UP. #4683-#4721 orignally were Ulmer Park buses. And we were supposed to get some of the 9300's from FLA. We got screwed.
7529-b64
I know, UP deserves better than that. I will admit one thing about FP, is that its managed to keep their Novas, and doesn't give them to other depots. All of FP's Novas are true FP buses. They have always been at FP. And caine824 I agree with you 100% on this one, UP didn't deserve to have the 5075-5099 taken away. Since they don't have enough local buses, they were forced to use their Nova Suburbans. ENY gets the 9440-9443, and they aren't treated good at all. And ENY even robbed UP's 8340-8350. So I believe UP should be treated better.
I'm sorry if I don't think about what JA and QV has, but I only compare FP with other Brooklyn Division depots.
-Jay
today i seen nabi on the 40.whick mean in a week i will be seen new flyers on the 40.
That surprised me too! Also, I saw a NABI on the 31. Very odd indeed, since both of those routes were dominated by NABIs. I saw a New Flyer on the 30 for the first time, and on the 43 and G. Two buses didn't have working destination signs-one was blank and the other covered with triangles. I also found it interesting how the front sign was single leveled and cycled, while the side sign was bi level. i can't wait to ride one of these.
It seems like Callowhill is basically empty of the Neoplans now.
Not entirely. About 20-30 Neoplans will remain at Callowhill for use on the 15. Apparently, the 15 and possibly the 46 are the only two routes which cannot support the NABIs or New Flyers because of width restrictions. I don't know the full story on the 46, but the width problems for the 15 are east of Front & Girard.
I don't know if this has been discussed before, but did anyone notice the oddity in the movie "15 Minutes" (7 minutes, 30 seconds into the film)???
The scene probably wasn't even shot in New York City, anyway -- but there is a 35-foot, 03-series RTS parked ont he other side of the street from the "action". It's fully painted (kinda crappily, though) in NYCTA's present color scheme.
Anyone have any idea whose bus it is???
Yeah, I had seen that too, when the movie came out. I asked on here, too, but nobody seemed to know whose bus that was. It was a very bad replica and very bad research to put a 35 footer in NYCT colors.
I tell you something else very bad about that movie - my all-time favorite actor, Robert DeNiro dies!
What kind of moron casted Robby D. for that part???
Now there is something I agree with.....shocked me when it happened in the movie.
Robert DeNiro is one heck of a nice guy -- I met him in 1989 when I used to drive tour buses for a company up in Los Angeles. We had the charter to do shuttles after the Grammy Awards, taking folks out to various parties afterwards. Robert DeNiro didn't jump in the limo like everyone else -- he wanted to ride the bus! And y'all may find this hard to believe, but he's somewhat of a bus fan. He was quite interested in the then-brand new MCI 102C3 I was driving at the time, and when we got out to West LA, I let him sit in the driver seat, and he gave it one of his "all right" looks, and said, "Gee, I always wanted to drive a big bus like this!" (I guess he got to in the movie "Bronx Tales"....)
Wow...that really proves Robert DeNiro to be a true New Yorker. He loves buses! Hot damn...now we have a celebrity to add to our cult following. You shoulda let him drive just for kicks..LOL!
-F.
Well, he did start off his career as a Taxi Driver ... so why not buses now?
Tell me about it. Ya don't kill off DeNiro; that's right up there with blowing up a Fishbowl at the end of the movie. Oops...I mentioned that movie again. LOL!
-F.
What was this movie about?
Last time I was in White Plains was when there was that Bee Lines strike. That was a long time ago. Today I returned to White Plains. Going I took the 10:41am train to Brewster North that ran express to Scarsdale, then local stops (stopping at 125th of course). The ride was pretty fast, they take those curves on the Harlem branch pretty fast.
Got off at White Plains and spent time in both the Galeria and Westchester Malls. They are two very different malls. The Galleria is more budget and midscale whereas the Westchester is upscale. Westchester is a nicer mall to walk around but the only stuff I bought today was in Galleria. Both malls weren't too busy, I would say Galleria may have been a bit busier tho.
White Plains is pretty pedestrian friendly I guess because it is a City. Lots of 10 and 20 story office buildings too. I sure wish Glen Cove would've been more like White Plains but Oh well.
Going back I took the 4:25pm express train to GCT stopping only at Fordham and 125th. It was very fast.
On the bus side I saw Bee Line Orions which sound like they using the good ol Series 50, but I also saw MAN Artics and the engine sounds like it's near the front on those, it sounded like a Cummins.
Bee Line seems to get a similar crowd to LI Bus. I did pick up a few schedules in the mall. The 3 bus for instance only has runs in AM and PM rush. Generally from what I saw on the schedules Bee Line aint much better than Suffolk Transit. But they do use Artics which LI Bus does not have. The Bee Line Orions look nice though, with the tinted windows that open at the top. Also saw a few Flxibles which sound like they're using a 6V-92.
Traffic didn't seem to be too bad in White Plains, at least compared to the Bottlenecks of Northern Blvd.
Bee Line is better then Suffolk Transit. The 20,40,60 Lines run verry often, Even the 7 and 42 Lines run often too. Most Bee Line Routes run every 30 Minutes so it's relly better then Suffolk and LI Bus togeather. The 3 is a Rush Hour Express to Yonkers and 242 St Subway station. And their buses tend to run better and cleaner then LIBus,Suffolk,and NYCT all in one!
I got my schedules in the Galleria Mall so I guess they did not have that many locals. So Bee Lines diesel fleet runs cleaner than LI Bus CNG fleet? Wow, isn't CNG supposed to be cleaner than diesel.
Anyway I'd be curious if there's a Bee Line roster around, and as I said in the original post it sounds like the Artics were using Cummins engines. Their Orions seemed pretty quick as they sped by me on the road.
[Anyway I'd be curious if there's a Bee Line roster around]
Ctrabs maintains a Bee Line roster at:
http://ctrabs74.50megs.com/rosters/beeline.html
A friend of mine told me that he saw one of CT Transit's brand new New Flyer Low Floor buses in service on the Stamford - White Plains I-Bus route today. It will be interesting to see if this is permanent, in which case it is possible that the high floor 1994 New Flyers (961-965) always used on this route may wind up going back to their original home in the Hartford Division.
I learned earlier today that high floor New Flyer buses 961-965 are, indeed, returning from Stamford to Hartford. Also, the precise number of New Flyer low floor buses recently delivered to CT Transit is 36. 31 will be used in Stamford and 5 in Hartford.
Had a chance to take this bus on Saturday as I had way too much time on my hands and decided to go to the train show in Timonium, MD by driving to Greenbelt, taking the B30 to BWI Airport, then the light rail up to Timonium. Took a little over 2 1/2 hours, including my drive time from Arlington to Greenbelt.
I was on Orion V Suburban 4393 both directions, but also saw 4394 and 4395. The schedule calls for three buses, but not sure if there are a couple of spares in case one breaks down. They have ads all over the inside and outside the bus advertising this service and a big sign on the shelter at the station. It looks like two sets of seats on each side were taken out to accommodate the luggage racks. I was on the 10AM trip and about 15 people boarded, which was great to see since the service is only a couple of weeks old and it was a Saturday. The bus was 10 minutes late coming in, which was discouraging since it wasn't coming from BWI, it was coming from the garage in Landover, but he made up great time and was on time at the airport. I thought they'd use I-95, but they are all using the BW Parkway to get up there. The driver let us know he wasn't sure of how to get from BWI Airport to the BWI Business district which eliminated me going to the end of the line since I didn't feel like riding around the airport parking lot with him while he figured this out. He did make it since I saw the bus when I was on the light rail passing through. I did get off there coming home so I could see the whole route. We did make one boo boo as instead of going through the arrivals section, he went into the departure zone and cut over when there was a break in between a construction zone to get back on track.
Overall, not bad at all. The drivers will catch on once they do this trip more and more.
Interesting; thanks for posting. I may have to try that when I come back to DC for winter break. I flew in and out of BWI when I went home for Thanksgiving, but was picked up at the airport and thus didn't get to try the new B30 service as I'd been itching to do!
Gratifying to hear that they've installed luggage racks in the buses . . . I took RIPTA TMC RTSes to and from the Providence airport on this end of the trip so as to save a few bucks compared to shuttle vans, and squeezing into a double seat with two carryon bags for the duration of an hour ride was exquisitely uncomfortable. (Although not as bad as the the time I had to take the bus to Home Depot and ride from Warwick to Providence with three 2' x 4' acrylic ceiling-light panels on my knees!)
C
No problem! Right now it runs every 40 minutes, 7 days a week. Maybe if it becomes more popular, they could try running every 30 minutes or so. The stop is at Terminal E, right near the light rail stop. The bus stop isn't the normal red, white and blue flag metrobus sign, but a white sign that says "Regional Bus Service B30 to Greenbelt Metro Station".
I was definitely not used to seeing people with suitcases boarding a metrobus, but they got on with no problems and made good use of the luggage racks.
This could also be a good alternative to the Orioles Weekend shuttle that runs from Greenbelt Metro for Saturday and Sunday afternoon games (night games the shuttle would be better). I would rather take this bus and switch to the light rail, total cost $6.70, and then come back at my leisure rather than rushing out to make sure I catch the return trip 20 minutes after the game and have to pay $9 for it. The last trip leaves BWI at 10:40 PM, so you can take your time after the game ends and hang around the Inner Harbor for a bit.
If you ride MARC with a monthly ticket, it's good for $1.10 of the $2 fare. With a monthly MARC ticket, you ride for free on the light rail, Baltimore subway, MTA bus and WMATA bus.
This is a great benefit for MARC riders.
I used the B30 from the airport on November 23, the day after Thanksgiving. The bus was on time. The schedule is configured so that the SB bus has about a 30 minute layover at Greenbelt Metro. They will need it on days the Baltimore Washington Parkway is jammed with traffic going towards Baltimore.
The driver liked the job because of the hours involved. She used to work express routes out of Crofton to New Carrollton.
Michael
It is a pretty easy run to do, minus the traffic on the highway they'd get caught in. Hopefully, air travel will pick up more and this bus will be used even more. I think if marketed properly, WMATA may find that there will be a decent percentage that would use it for regular travel to downtown Baltimore.
Why not start it somewhere more convinenet like Union Station? It isn't too hard to get to the BW Parkway from there.
I'm guessing they picked Greenbelt for the large parking lot there. The ads I've seen for it have been telling people they can park at Greenbelt and take the bus to the airport. Not sure what type of enforcement there is if someone leaves their car there for a week. It was pretty easy to get to the Parkway from the station. We took Cherrywood Lane to Edmonston Road to Kenilworth Ave, to I-95 South to the BW Parkway North. Sounds conviluted, but we weren't on any of them for more than a minute or so. Leaving from Union Station would make for a cheaper metrorail ride, but then wouldn't give anyone a place to park. Kind of a no win situation.
I'm guessing Metro picked Greenbelt instead of New Carrollton was to not compete with MARC nor Amtrak who also provide service between Union Station, New Carrollton, and the airport.
Today, the "Spree" began service. The route uses SEPTA's D40LF buses, wrapped with the "Spree" logos, and a map of the route. Originally this route was to use the Eldorados, but the Center City District insisted on using the Low Floor buses, for ease of boarding and alighting. Now the interesting thing about this route, is that the route number is not the 76, but the 200! This reading was seen on the route number indicator on the back of the Flyers.
In other observations, the arrival of the Flyers, has moved some of Callowhill Neoplans out of the depot. One of them is 3483, seen on the 125. This bus either moved to Victory or Frontier Depots.
And last but not least, the drivers at Frontier, trying to hold out for more money that was accepted by the City and Victory districts, voted to strike on the 12th. They were the only division to reject the contract that SEPTA negotiated earlier this year.
Today, the "Spree" began service. The route uses SEPTA's D40LF buses, wrapped with the "Spree" logos, and a map of the route. Originally this route was to use the Eldorados, but the Center City District insisted on using the Low Floor buses, for ease of boarding and alighting. Now the interesting thing about this route, is that the route number is not the 76, but the 200! This reading was seen on the route number indicator on the back of the Flyers.
The Flyers in question being used on the Spree are 5432-5436. Each of these buses have a distinctive rear ad for various stores or areas along the Spree route, including Jeweler's Row, The Gallery at Market East, and the Reading Terminal Market. I don't recall SEPTA considering a route designator change as well as the routing change.
BTW, the 38 is now serving the Art Museum in the outbound direction only, while the Phlash has been extended to serve the Philadelphia Zoo. These two locations were formerly served by the 76.
In other observations, the arrival of the Flyers, has moved some of Callowhill Neoplans out of the depot. One of them is 3483, seen on the 125. This bus either moved to Victory or Frontier Depots.
3483 is at Frontier, along with 3480-3482 (so far). I would guess that the rest of the 348x series will also end up at Frontier, where they will join 3490. By the way, all 60 of the Flyers (5411-5470) are now at Callowhill. Only about 15-20 Neos will remain at Callowhill for use on the 15-Girard Ave line (there are width restrictions on Girard east of Front Street and along Richmond Street). Once the 15 returns to LRT status, the Neos will be moved from Callowhill, making that depot a NABI/Flyer only location.
And last but not least, the drivers at Frontier, trying to hold out for more money that was accepted by the City and Victory districts, voted to strike on the 12th. They were the only division to reject the contract that SEPTA negotiated earlier this year.
That's news I didn't want to hear. I am not looking forward to the prospect of having to patronize those non-union clowns at Krapf's Coaches if I need to get between West Chester and Exton Mall. I had forgotten that Frontier didn't approve the contract.
......College Point storage yard. I saw her last night while working the 7 line. She looks pretty good sitting next to the fishbowl.
Brand New! eBay Item #1043589978.
Based on what I read, are the Bx3, Bx13, Bx16, Bx28, Bx31 and Bx33 being split? This what I read from the routes that Steve posted. I thought these routes were being split up because they were articulated routes. The Bx16, Bx28 and Bx33 are not Articulated routes. Wait....Bx28 is during hours but otherwise no. However, I do appreciate Steve for keeping us informed.
Ray
Neither is the Bx3, but they DO once in a while place them on there...I actually DID see one up on University Avenue near Bronx CC this past summer...but that's very rare...
Carlton a.k.a. Cleanairbus
I have a friend from out of town who has to get from LaGuardia to JFK for a connecting flight on Thursday afternoon. Is there a fairly simple way to get from point A to point B?
Use the Limo Shuttles---much faster than anything else
IIRC the company is called Airport Express---a division of Private Transportation, Inc. of Brooklyn NY.
Perhaps they have a website with more info, such as fares, schedules. Hopefully your friend has left him/herself enough time in case of traffic on the Van Wyck.
Try going to the following web site for info on connecting transportation between the major NYC metro airports:
http://www.panynj.gov/aviation/connfram.HTM
I saw QSC #906 on Queens Blvd the other day. I noticed that it had ILLUMINATED ADS on the exterior of the bus! Strange...
An article in Monday's USA Today said that a bus that may have been the one Rosa Parks rode will be refurbished and will go on display at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan.
I know. The bus was purchased via auction for $492,000 (about the cost of a pair of brand new buses!). I think it's great that it will be preserved as the important artifact of civil rights history that it truly is. Bravo, Henry Ford Museum!
-Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Saw a few interesting bus assignments today:
* - 3385 is one of the latest buses to be shifted from Callowhill to Frontier; 3385 was used today on the 206 (16 block) between Paoli and Great Valley.
* - 4541 pulled a 105 Paoli assignment today (3 block); saw this bus at 69 St Terminal around 4:30pm.
* - 5326 was either transferred or loaned for the day to Red Arrow; this bus was seen on the 111 (8 block) at around 4:40pm.
I was wondering when the 105 would use the Dorados to Paoli. Anyway, It's odd that they would use them at that time, because if I remember correctly around that time the 105 buses get full.
At least between 69 St & Radnor, those buses fill up, but past Radnor, the ridership thins out dramatically. I'd say the bulk of the ridership is between the terminal and Lankenau Hospital.
I have just posted 17 pictures of SEPTA's New Flyer D40LF buses, which were taken a couple of weeks ago. I will be adding about 50-60 more images over the course of the week, with a good mix of NABIs, artics, and older Neos.
Very nice pics! Those signs are very clear and visible.
The (T) just got some NFI C40LFs for the Silver Line, which will open in March of 2002.
I just overhauled my Buses of the MBTA website.
I had to change from Netscape to Angelfire, since Netscape was a pain in the neck in updating pages. Angelfire is 100% easier to manage (ctrabs74 ought to know this!) and in the future I ought to have more goodies such as pictures and bus sounds.
If you have old links to the former Netscape site, please update them to the following:
http://www.angelfire.com/mb2/orion5bjc
Hopefully I'll be able to expand it soon - in the meantime, enjoy!
Brian Colby
Buses of the MBTA
orion5bjc@yahoo.com
Yep. This morning, I get out of the station at 125th and Lex. I look around the recently completed drugstore to see what bus to my school I'm about to miss.;-) I also look to the bus stop across the street, but then has to do a double take. I see that MTA B&T has a new (or new-looking) Nova LFS for their Wards Is. runs from Harlem. It's #957, painted in their white, orange and yellow-orange scheme.
One of the MTA's branch agencies trying to show NYCT how it's done, perhaps?
What time did you see this wonderful piece of machinery?
Trevor
It was around 9:15 AM after I got out of the station and saw the bus.
Could this be ex-bus 999/995?
Na 999/995 is currently operating in Montreal at STCUM. I have a photo of her up there when I was up in Montreal in Ocotber.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Anybody know how to get to Woodbury Commons via Public Transit from Manhattan, or better yet Philadelphia?
Coach USA/Short Line operates frequent service from PABT to Woodbury Commons.
There is also a connecting bus service from the Metro North Port Jervis Line at Harriman Station to Woodbury Commons.
visit toy liquidators there. they may have one or two corgi buses.
Gray Line New York
Shopping Excursions to Woodbury Common from Port Authority, New York City (42nd Street & Eight Avenue)
Shortline New York
Daily transportation to Woodbury Common.
MTA Metro-North Railroad
Weekend transportation to Woodbury Common.
--Mike
Yesterday morning I was headed east on 25a behind
the wheel of E450 799 when I ran into a huge traffic
mess. Seems like all the Laidlaw yellow submarines
all decided to converge on their yard at the same
time I was passing through. One guy had his tail
end sticking out into the street trying to get in
while two more buses going west were waiting to come
in. Thankfully, the two westbound buses coming in
left the turning lane clear, so I had to carefully
go around the one sticking out. And for the record,
the E450s may not be "real buses" but imagine taking
a full size 30 footer into the hills and cul-de sacs
of Sound Beach every day and you'll see why we use
mini buses.
Personally, I love cutaway/shuttle buses, though nearly everyone else in here seems to denigrate them. They fill a lot of holes that full-size buses -- even 28- or 30-footers -- can't fill, such as shuttle service, neighborhood routes, loop routes, special service, and are, IMHO, quite stylish to boot.
My only quibble is that the build quality on most units sucks, and so as not to exceed the chassis GVWR, the bodies are often built with lightweight but cheesy materials like fiberglas with plexi windows. As such, they don't last that long in severe-duty service; I believe Aerotech is the only manufacturer to have Altoona-tested their vehicles for any length of time.
C
Saw the last few minutes of this 1980 movie starring Neil Diamond, Lucie Arnaz and Sir Laurence Olivier. Neil Diamond comes back to NYC to film a TV show and while standing somewhere in Manhattan you see the right rear corner of a non-A/C BAT WING MTA Bus. Was watching on an old B/W set. Bus seemed to be in the all blue scheme...Didn't catch the #.
OOOHH...gotta see it!
-Fred
Is this news to anyone but me ?
Saw a small item in the on-line version of the industry magazine I get which says in part: NovaBus is looking to sell it's Roswell NM plant that makes the RTS model, BECAUSE orders in the past 12 - 18 months "... have not materialized ..." and "... market share for the high-floor buses has dropped because of requirements for wheelchair lifts ..."
BTW, Not too long ago one of their Express versions with a whell chair lift visited this depot. It seems that the TA & ncyDOT like the MCI cruiser better. That wheel chair lift that comes out it's side sure is a trip for customers < G >
Mr rt__:^)
That's a shame. The best-looking new bus is going away; we all knew about it through posts and it really sucks that it is materializing. Hopefully someone will buy the tooling; you never know, someone may rig a low floor out of it just yet.
-F.
I got mixed feelings about the RTS being discontinued. After more than 20 years of production, I tend to think everything that could be done to improve the bus has been done. I had hoped someone would buy the tooling for the fishbowl, but alas. It's too bad the articulated fishbowls were never officially imported to this country, I thought they would do quite well.
There is a God!
I saw that on the NovaBUS web site. That truly sucks, but I think if NovaBUS had introduced a low floor version of the RTS, the design as a whole probably wouldn't have been threatened. I say this because when you look at the other low-floor buses on the market, you can see that they are pretty much look the same, and I'd imagine share a high percentage of equipment and componentry with their high floor cousins. NovaBUS of course _had_ to have the LFS, which AFAIK isn't doing bad, but I don't think has been getting the kind of love the New Flyers or NABI 40LFW has been getting in terms of orders, and I think a low-floor RTS, with an improved driver position like the RTS-08/RTS-06WFD and a 6 foot #1 module on versions with the plug doors would do pretty good business.
The NovaLFS seems to be selling well in Eastern Canada (ie. Quebec and the Maritimes), and Chicago recently bought about 400+ of these buses. Besides that, I can't think of any major customers.
[The NovaLFS seems to be selling well in Eastern Canada]
For quite a number of years, the transit operators in Quebec Province pretty much had to buy buses produced in the Province. That forced them all to buy Nova LFS's, which is why the bus sells well there. I believe there may be somewhat more lattitude on the part of Quebec operators today, but the recent announcement about another large order for Nova LFS's among several Quebec operators makes me suspect.
Although not operators of the size of a Chicago, Charlotte and Memphis have purchased a good number of Nova LFS's in recent years. I believe Buffalo purchased some about a year back, and Albany counts a good number of LFS's among its other low-floor buses (Orion VI's and NABI's).
i like the RTS08 model with the wheelchair in the front. it is used in Chicago. why didnt NYC buy this version?
At one point, NYC Transit had an extreme opposition to front door wheelchair lifts -- the Grumman 870s had them, and those were extremely unreliable, plus that part of the bus tends to get hit in accidents.
That opposition has been dropped. The units have become more reliable.
David
[... why didnt NYC buy this version?]
1- Too many seats lost in Express version.
2- Loose 2nd door
Mr rt__:^)
Nova now has 3 potential buyers for thier Roswell Plant, so if one of these buyers get in, the RTS will live on!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Good.
Whatever the new company does, Don't Tinker With The Design.
Let The RTS LIVE On.
I wonder who might be interested in buying the RTS, anybody know?
I'd love to see what PACCAR would do with the RTS. The Kenworth and Peterbilt marques are known for quality and longevity in the heavy truck business, and they are no slouches with innovation.
>>> The Kenworth and Peterbilt marques are known for quality and longevity in the heavy truck business <<<
But they are not known to compete on price, and since most buses are bought by public agencies, low bid is very improtant.
Tom
does this mean MTA-NYC Bus and the private lines will order the new buses, when and if it happens?
B8-8689-TMCRTS-06
Dont cry you guy's send all your old RTS over to London Transport. They are buying back our classic bus the much loved Routemaster from any source they can including preservationist's at premium prices for renovation and further service in the UK capital.
Originally built in the late 50's,the ones in service now IF they keep running till the end of recently won contracts will be 50-- YEP fifty years of age.
So perhaps there is some hope for the RTS family yet, after all further refurbishment could be a viable option considering the bleak outlook new bus builder's seem to be offering at present.
Have we been doiged, like willie says, we scots pop up everywhere.
I hate to see the RTS go. The RTS was the first bus I ever remember riding on. It was in 1982 and the route was the B38 going towards Ridgewood. I think there is a high demand for the RTS for example DART's whole fleet in Dallas will be made up of the NOVA RTS's once they phase out the rest of the old Neoplan's
I feel your pain. The RTS should be able to last for more Americans to take their first bus ride in. Mine was in a Flxible; unfortunately, those are no longer made. However, MCI is sitting on the tooling so they could make more of them if they wanted to....
-F.
My first bus ride that I can remember was on a GM Old Look in Cuba. I also fondly remember the Leyland Worldmasters.
The first bus I drove was a 1962 GM 35' fishbowl.
Right now I own an RTS but would love a fishy.
-Joe
I'll bet you would like to own a Fishy! We are getting another one for our museum in March; it is a 1973 3302 (30-footer) with the Toroflow. We also have one of its twin brothers, along with a 1966 model 5303 with over a million miles...and it still runs!
Tell me more about your RTS...I'd love to know more. Also, I just finished building a model of a CAT (Las Vegas) FIshbowl in 1:64 scale...it now features actual bus wheels and a scratchbuilt A/C unit for added realism. I hope to have pics up soon.
-F.
If you've never been before, I highly recommend visiting GMBus.com. He's got photos of over 50 fishbowls, and a few are for sale. Also, they do appear on eBay from time to time (a few months back, one transit agency was looking to sell 10 of them - but most needed major work). Right now, someone's listing a 1957 Flxible for $20,000. Unfortunately it was converted over for motorhome use some time back.
I used to love the '62 Fishbowls, since that was the last model year with the square marker lights. MSBA had them in the early '80's.
Thanks,
I am familiar with Loren's GMBus.com.
California is too far for me to drive an old 'bowl home. I was nervous enough driving my RTS 320 miles home.
-Joe
You won't believe this; I was watching Ren and Stimpy last night, and they are lost in outer space without a way home. Suddenly, guess what pulls up? A nicely illustrated red GM Fishbowl with a destination sign that reads "JERSEY CITY". The artwork was right on; this thing even had a proportionate windshield!
This was right up there with the Simpsons episode set in New York where Homer sees a NYCTA Orion pull up with a "FLUSHING" destination sign when he really has to pee. The buses even had 6V92TA SFX that were highly authentic as they went by.
You never know where you'll see buses pop up on TV. How bizarre!
-Fred Donaher
"The COACH Potato"
Lisa Simpson rode a bus, too when she was trying to go to a museum or something like that but ended up in the middle of nowhere instead. It almost looked like a Classic. I think it was the route was 22A or something like that because one derivation ran only a certain day of the week and one with a different suffix ran the other days.
Yes...that's correct. And in another episode, Homer rides an RTS. Great stuff!
-Fred
Lisa Simpson rode a bus, too when she was trying to go to a museum or something like that but ended up in the middle of nowhere instead.
"Little Newark! Liiiiiittle Newark!"
"Crackton! Next stop is Crackton!"
LOL!!! That was too funny. It's amazing what that show has gotten away with!
-F.
Little Newark...LOL! Wonder if there's a little Queens anywhere?
-F.
i miss this low floor. i remember riding on it when it was on the M14 route. Now i see according to the posts here that it is currently runnig in canada. did New York City not like this bus? Why isnt more of this model operating and why no NABI to either DOT or NYC?
I believe it was 999 on the roof, but 995 on the rest of the bus!
I was with Trevor when we saw it at Nova Bus's plant in Quebec Province. I was under the impression that it had been running in Montreal, but had been returned by STCUM to Nova. Don't know what its future holds but, unfortunately, I doubt you'll be seeing it return to NYC again. Hope I'm wrong; as I've posted before, I've become a big fan of the Nova LFS.
With Leary leaving and all, who else is worried that SEPTA's bus replacement program will end, and all the new buses were getting now will be the same ones we're on 15 years from now?
I don't think that'll be an issue at all. SEPTA will still continue to replace it's older buses over the next few years. After the Neoplans are replaced (around 2005-2006), I wouldn't expect any more bus replacements until around 2009-2010, when the NABIs reach the end of their useful lives.
I don't realy think so. At least, not for now, because fo the 5 year program that Leary left. Besides, there are so many plans for SEPTA already laid out. Anyway, who is going to be the new guy, or has that not been decided yet?
A decision on Leary's replacement will be made early next year (which in "SEPTA speak" will probably mean the summer). Initially, SEPTA wanted to go with an "inside" candidate, but they have since expanded their search to include candidates from outside SEPTA.
Inquiring minds want to know!
I spoke to him on Tuesday, and he say he took the job with........
I let him tell you guys.
Robert
LIBERTY LINES IT IS!
I get my start date later on today!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Congrats, Trevor - best of luck to you! I hope they recognize they have hired someone who "gets it".
Congrats, Trevor - best of luck to you!
Tone
Congrats Trevor!!...I mean Terror...as in the terror of Madison Avenue. Here's hoping you'll enjoy your stint behind the wheel of one of LL's fine Classics.
Congratulations Trevor! Best of luck behind the wheel of LL's Classics. Be thankful you don't have to drive the !@#$%^&* RTS. By the way, if you ever cut me off I'll run you off the road! :^)
I'll be sure to aim for you and the yellow roaches!
Regards,
Trevor Logan aka The Terror Of Madison Avenue
That sounds good, "The Terror of Madison Av". What about 5th Av? Do you like 5th Av or Madison Av better? Why not call it, "The Terror of 5th and Madison Avs"? Just a suggestion, whatever you chose is good. have fun on LLE!
Ray
It could be Terror of Madison, 5th, 3rd, Lex, Broadway, The Grand Concourse, The Major Deegan, The Sheridan, White Plains Road, or even Central Park West because those are major roads Liberty Lines takes, just that Madison Avenue was kinda given to me by a friend so I used it!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Sorry about that Trevor, my mistake. Anyways, enjoy those classics!!!
Ray
Of course if this was the "left" coast you could use "THE TERROR OF COLORADO BOULEVARD".
So it's Liberty lines for you Trevor. I look forward to seeing some nice behind the scenes pix on TransiTalk.
Please remember to smile at the tourists who ask you when the next bus to somewere is due---as you know most visitors to the Appple expect Bus drivers to be clued up on ALL routes. LOL.
Trevor,
Congrats to ya. I'll have to look you up - especially if you land on the Bx4A/B. I know you'll have a grand time with those awesome Classics.
Wayne
Good thing you went with LL. You working in LLE Garage or LL Bee Line Garage?
It couldn't happen to a more qualified...or nicer guy.
Best of luck to you.
YES! YOU ARE DA MAN! DRIVE them Flxes Trevor!
-F.
Congratulations and best of luck with the new job, Trevor. You already know I think you made a very wise choice. It won't be very long before Liberty lines realizes what a fine asset to their company you will be to them.
BIG AL
P.S. If you are ever driving and happen to see a supervisory vehicle from NJT, blow your horn so they can see you and be sure to give them the finger!!!
Congrats T-Drive. Good Luck with LLE! Here's some advice: with just about every bus company (except NJT) working Madison and 5 Avenues, things can get pretty hectic during rush hour (the bus lanes are not big enough for NYBS, LLE, NYCT, Command, QS, Triboro, and Jamaica all put together). If someone tries to one up you, be sure to gun it!
Regardless of what any of us think of the entire low-floor concept, there is currently and there will continue to be a demand for standard-floor buses.
As we here have predicted and as is now true, low floors make up the majority of new bus sales and this will continue to be the case. However, any TA still buying standard-floor buses now (a significant number) will go on to buy more. A great example is WMATA. For their frequently-stopping District routes, they have purchased 200 low floor buses (perhaps with more to come). But, as they operate a large number of longer-distance express routes with few stops, they also remain a strong customer for standard-floor buses. No one here can tell me that it would be "better" to use low floors on Metrobus routes like the N7 and the 29-line routes. The same can be said for hundreds of other routes on dozens of other systems.
Now... buses like the New Flyer D40(HF) and even the (dare I say reliable) Orion V I can see fizzling away for good. These are 'average' standard-floors with no particular redeeming qualities (not to say that I don't like them, but they are not really exceptional buses.)
However, the RTS is a lot more than an average standard floor bus. It's design is timelessly modern (even the WFD looks OK) and no other bus can match its 24-year record of quality, versatility, and repeat orders.
Personally, I am tremendously fond of the RTS. It's a simply outstanding vehicle which has more than proven itself in cities large and small from coast to coast.
However, removing my personal preferences from the equation, ¡there needs to be a standard-floor bus on the market! As a service to the transit industry, at least one or two reputable standard-floor models must continue production. I think the RTS is more than qualified to be one of those models.
The problem still remains manufacturer overcapacity. A city that needs standard transit buses is looking at:
- Nova RTS
- New Flyer
- Neoplan
- NABI
- Gillig
- Orion
If demand has been reduced to thje point where agencies like NYCT and NJT are only going to make purchases every 3-5 years instead of 1-2 years, then a few of these manufacturers need to drop their standard floor bus as a product, and concentrate on low floor quality improvements.
The primary mistake that Nova made with the RTS was not moving it to the Schenectady NY plant. MCI/TMC moved the RTS to Roswell NM because they had an existing base of operation there (and at the time, MCI was still owned by Dial, headquartered in Phoenix). For Nova, that was a continent away from their Quebec headquarters. The Schenectady plant was already doing final assembly of the Classic and LFS - adding the RTS would have given them significant cost savings by having all their US operations under one roof, and would have made workers more efficient by not having to idle a plant when orders were only prevalent for one model.
If someone does indeed buy the RTS and decides to keep it in production, they need to move it out of New Mexico. It should be moved to an existing bus or heavy truck plant where workers will still have something to do when bus orders are not there.
And ironically, all 6 manufacturers above make low floor transit buses as well.
If anyone is interested, the New York City Transit Authority publishes a newsletter in conjunction with the Department of Buses (Surface).
This issue, dated November 2001 is dedicated to the events of September 11th, and includes a photograph of a dust/debris covered MCI Staten Island Express coach #2185 being prepared for tow at Ground Zero.
It also includes various articles submitted by NYCTA personnel, as well as the usual featured colums.
If anyone would like a copy, please email to me your mailing address. I have about 20 of them, so first-come first-served. The newsletter is 8 pages, 8.5x11 inches and will be folded to fit inside a business envelope. If you would like your copy unfolded, please let me know when you email me. I will send them either way, postage paid.
Hey, do they have the September and October 2001 issues? I was on there mailing lists and they (MTA) never sent me either. Can somebody or you....Brooklyn67 tell me if they did? Thanks.
Ray
There is a September and October Leader, but I only have one copy of each, which are my personal copies. When Steve Nacco left the DoB Customer Service Dept, apparently some of that service left with him. Direct your new inquiries to Mr. Chris Lake and see if they can help with the back issues.
I'll send your November copy later this week.
2185 is a Ulmer Park bus
Two things:
1) Yes, that's an Ulmer Park MCI. My mistake.
2) I cannot find a copy of the September Leader anywhere. I thought I had it, but apparently I do not. Didn't even realize I missed that issue until you asked about it above. I checked, and it's 'missing'. I'll find out if a September issue was published and send it to you if there are any laying around at the depot.
To those who have emailed, I'll be sending them out this weekend.
send it to me. email me at pingu45@aol.com and i will send u my address
thank you
steve lowenthal
216 n fulton av
fleetwood ny 10052
Sorry. I didn't read these messages until after I accounted for those who emailed. All newsletters are gone. Next time, please email me directly.
as u all know i believe i mentioned here before, my dad is a bus operator. whats new at QV is i notice they have a new way to get in. back in the day it was entry and exit thru the main parking lot entrance. now the cars entering must go where the buses pull in. not only that but they got vehicle checks and u must have ur pass and decal ready upon entering! wow tight security. but my dad and fellow operators tell me there are plenty loopholes. not to mention some people inside that lil office are not property protection, some are u guessed it, BUS OPERATORS!!! either overtime, time and a half, or doing restricted duty.
as a matter of fact when Motormen get into trouble their restricted duty is either yards or platform duty along with C/RS
so remember one thing
Safety
Attentiveness
Train control
ARE U ACCEPTING THE PROPER LINEUP?
LOL
See http://www.qvdepot.com for details about the new depot security issues, as well as other features and information.
I suspect it's ENY, because I've been seeing a lot more 1999 RTS on those routes, but I can't be positive. All I know is that, according to Transittalk's bus roster page, Ulmer Park local routes (is it abbreviated ULM? ULP? UP?) only has 47/4800s, 90/9100s and express refugee 92/9300s. Obviously, the converted expresses replaced the 1999 RTS sometime during summer 2001.
I recall riding the King's Plush on the B1 Easter Sunday and the B3 on June 10. The next time I was in Ulmer territory was August 19 and have been back numerous times since and have only seen the buses from the roster page as indicated above.
So did they go to ENY, or somewhere else? It's said that ENY already inherited '99 RTS from KB, whose RTS fleet seems to be at least 80% 1996 RTS, the rest 1986. The only time I recall riding a '99 RTS out of KB was on the BX7 way back in February 2000.
The 1999 RTS's that were at Ulmer Park(UP) are now in Flatbush Depot. This happened around August(I think). These 1999 RTS's were the 5075-5099. They went to Flatbush to be with the 5100-5124. It's strange how UP went from 290 buses to 264. UP should get more buses.
ENY Depot is greedy. They have 125 99'RTS's, they are the 4945-5024 and the 5205-5249(from KB).The Brooklyn Division is very unbalanced, I hope this changes soon.
-Jay
Ulmer Park currently has this fleet roster:
7511-7534=remanufactued all orignally at ENY
4753-4752=all orignally from Amsterdam.
4854-4872=all orignally from Castleton.
9077-9110=there buses orignal.
9295-9344=express now used for local lines.
ulmer park HAD 5075-5099 but sent them to ENY. Ulmer Park were supposed to get 9385-9399 from FLA but that did not happen.
No: 5075-5099 went to FLA to be join 5100-5124.
Okay, the buses are good BUT the rear sign on the top......WHAT?! That's disgusting!!! Also, the A/C roof top....that reminds me of the Long Beach, CA's New Flyers (1994-1996 or 1998). Those rear destination signs should be on the back...not the top like a flap or something.
Ray
I don't think they look that bad at all, since you can even add words to the rear sign...I just hope they don't blow dead in a few years and you can't tell which route there on. If you want to see a weird bus check out the New Flyer Invero.
The only problem I see is the SEPTA livery is almost all white....I'm surprised there is no graffiti on the exteriors of Nabi's or Neoplans.
Luke
That's one of the reasons I like the NABIs old livery with the black stripe-there is jsut more color. Anyway, about the signs, it seems like there are already problems with the destination signs, from what I've seen.
My guess is that SEPTA wanted to keep the top rear cover clear for advertising, if and when they're ever applied. It does look strange, but the rear a/c isn't that much different from looking at a New Flyer CNG low floor.
Well, there is a good reason for the rear number sign being so high up. Anyway, it's hard to describe, but out of all the new bus orders since the Neoplans, the New Flyers are the ones that have the SEPTA look. The Breeze buses don't really have it, as with the NABIs mostly, the Dorados pretty much have it, but the New Flyers definitely have it. They are the most SEPTA-y buses I have seen, other than the Neoplans (they are the SEPTA bus look, if you understand.
Basman, you state right off that there is a good reason for the rear number sign being so high up. What is the reason?? That you didn't state. From my point of view, after seeing these buses in person last Thursday, the sign is located where it is so a person can see it well over most traffic. Worked that way for me. Perhaps that isn't a bad idea,as strange as it looks.
jrc
On regular New Flyer newfloors, the rear sign is like in the middle of the back wall, right? It's not like Flxibles, where the sign was high up anyway? Anyway, I agree with your reason. I was thinking about the advertisments. If you notice with the Neoplans with the rear number sign, they don't have any advertisemtents on the back wall.
I don't often see that many of these buses. I was comparing them to the Brooklyn buses. We have air intakes on the back, for a/c I suppose. The Philly buses are smooth and clean. Any reasons?
joe c
So SEPTA can slap those huge, billboard sized ads on the back of the buses. They're becoming common on the Neoplans and the NABI's. Expect to see them on the Flyers when the new year starts.
After seeing them in action, I'm beginning to start liking these buses. It's about time SEPTA put route number indicators on the back of their buses. The indicators on the top of the buses give these buses a distinctive look, not the average "Carbon Copy" of the other Flyers, from other cities. After seeing the ones from NYC, Boston, and LA, the SEPTA buses are quite different from the other cities. I credit SEPTA for a daring look on these buses.
Check this out. I've been cleanig my room and keep finding maps i dont want. I got a 1977 Bronx Bus Map which features information about the famous Culture Loop buses(B88 and M41-remember them?)-plus a 1958 subway map. this map features the famous 3rd avenue subway line, the Culver Live and the Myrtle Line(including the famous 15c point information if going to the rockaways)-best offer-but shipping will be charged(sorry). email at pingu45@aol.com if interested.
itseems since steve nacco left nothing is being published by dob, i.e leader, making score and the insiders guide. anyone know if dob will publish a 20001 insiders guide?
I was just about to ask the board about the 2001 Guide..
I saw this D4500 bus on the 139 today on route 9 today. It is a nice looking bus, I like the new paint scam on the NJT buses.
Robert
Does anyone know if the MTA or NJT recently sold any of their MCI buses? CATS (Charlotte Area Rapid Transit) recently aquired some and they don't look new. Hopefully I will have some pics up once I get a digital camera. Also the NOVA LFS makes up about half of CATS' fleet (the other is made up of old, well beyond useful life, and completly useless MAN, TMC RTS', and some Flxible 870's). I think that with the 2025 bus/light rail plan. CATS would probaly be better served with New Flyer D40's or even better Neoplan's. The LFS' look a little bumble beeish to me.
What happened to that order of Gilligs that came in to Charlotte just before the first order of Nova LFS's started coming in? I assume they are still around.
You know I completely forgot about the GIllig's that are here. You would think that the way they keep them clean around here the damn things are 10 years old. The Gillig's mostly run on the express (more like limited stop) routes during the week and on the locals and express on the weekends. from what I've seen their numbers start at 701
I know all about new Gillig buses looking old. We have a mostly all-Phantom fleet (1991s, 94s, and 2001s) here in Roanoke, but most people would never tell; the new 2001 models, save for a few minor changes, look basically like the 1988 Gilligs that they just replaced! We desperately need a new paint scheme for our buses here; for a picture example, go to www.valleymetro.com.
The exception is our two new Thomas SLF 235 low floors for the Downtown Express shuttle; they are in a nice deep blue with grey below the beltline, black around the windows, and retro-40s style yellow and white triple stripe designs. These are really sharp and turn heads all over town...I hope to put pictures up soon!
CATS just got a new paint job that dosen't make much sense either. Hopefully in the new year I'll have pictures up. The paint scheme only works on the NOVA's due to the fact that there's not much to room to work. It's kind of hard to find any types of pictures on the CATS site (wwww.ridetransit.org) and I have a couple from a regular camera that I have to scan in on my computer but very unimpressive.
Oh..so the old paint with the green is gone now? I hope it looks as good on the Flxes as their original scheme did!
-F.
It dosen't
Oh God. TELL me they didn't ruin those Flxes!!!
-F.
Ooh..bet those Flxes are SWEET! Please post pics of those and the RTSes if possible. Thanks!
-F.
who make the rideon buses51xx series
International
Well, Navistar International makes the chassis and the front clip . . . basically their commercial truck/school bus chassis co-opted for a bus platform. I'm not sure who builds the bodies, however; I'll try to look it up and post it here when I get a chance.
C
thanx
I was shock I saw a bike rack on a mdmta bus. I did not see what bus it was but it had the new paint job the flag. SUPRISE SUPRISE SURPRISE
Hell a bike rack is a requirement down here a Charlotte.
We don't have bike racks at Valley Metro (Roanoke, VA) but they are common at Blacksburg Transit (home of Virginia Tech). Being a college town, they are more useful there, as must be the case at CATS.
-F.
Oddly enough Charlotte isn't much of a college town. We have UNC Charlotte but that's the only big college we have. Charlotte, as well as it's neighboring cities, are really big on bikes although most of the roads aren't big enough to accomodate bikes and cars. I even saw a bike rack on one of the new MCI's we just got.
Whoa....a bike rack on an MCI? That's different. I assume it's a commuter coach?
-F.
It's definitly a commuter coach. It's the oddest damn thing I've ever seen.
IIRC, AC Transit also installed bike racks on its MCI D4500s.
I've gotta see this.
-F.
Ride-On (Montgomery County, MD) and Sun-Bus (Palm Springs, CA), have racks on all their equipment.
I hate the stupid flags; they look like frigging NASCAR for crying out loud. Give me the blue stripe any day...that's what made me fall in love with Baltimore buses!
-F.
The November 2001 issue of Bus Ride Magazine features an ad from Blue Bird showing off their XCEL 102 102-inch wide commercial transit bus. The bus is your typical shoebox and looks like a cross between a New Flyer and an Orion. It is available in 29, 35 & 40 foot lengths. You can view the bus at www.blue-bird.com/xcel-html. Is this Blue Bird's first attempt at a commercial transit bus? If so, do you think NYCT DOB would be interested?
I'm very doubtful. Blue Birds tend to be used by very small agencies.
Wayne
It looks Good. It show's that Blue Bird could build a better bus then like all the other Blue Birds out there,That is like School Buses. BUT it's better then the Gillig Phantom and something that could make Gillig lose some buyers of the Phantom.
I don't think the X-cel 102 is a threat to the Phantom. The X-Cel still looks like a light duty transit bus and offers light to medium duty powertrains. No DD 50 or even 40 series and no Allison 500.
Here in Miami we have Bluebird Transhuttle CS for our lighter routes and they have worked out well.
We do not have Gilligs here, but I've toured some transit agencies (as St Louis, Seattle, Portland) that absolutely LOVE their Gilligs.
-Joe
Here in Miami we have Bluebird Transhuttle CS for our lighter routes and they have worked out well.
I'm glad those are working out. As ugly as they are, they kind of provide a nice contrast to the rest of MDTA's reasonably solid fleet.
We do not have Gilligs here, but I've toured some transit agencies (as St Louis, Seattle, Portland) that absolutely LOVE their Gilligs.
I've never been to St Louis, but I talked to a few drivers in both Seattle and Portland and they gave the Gillig Phantoms so-so reviews. I know that Tri-Met had a Gillig low floor for a few weeks and was disgusted with it. I think the Seattle order of 1996 really put Gillig to the test, and they passed. Prior to this order, it was almost unheard of to see a Phantom in a big city, but they made some nice adjustments to the bus to make it appropriate for "the second ring" of big cities, such as St Louis, Minneapolis-St Paul, etc.
I've really never heard a driver give a good review on a Phantom. But maintenance raved about them. Both in Portland and St. Louis.
And yes, the Transhuttle CS is a remarkably ugly bus.
Our transit neighbors to our north, Broward County Transit, runs Gillg Advantage Low Floors. A few drivers I've talked with say its a much improved product from the Phantom which they also run.
I guess the jury is still out on them.
-Joe
Yeah, the Advantage is a good-looking bus. Our Phantoms have done okay, but maintenance agrees they are nowhere NEAR as trouble-free as the Flxibles they replaced.
-F.
Yeah, the Advantage is a good-looking bus.
You MUST be kidding! What could possibly be good-looking about this quintessential box-on-wheels?! The front of the Advantage is OK: the bowed-out wraparound windshield renders it a minimal amount of character. The sides are unimaginative and uninspirted. And the back is so hideously ugly that even I, a sworn bus fan, gets angered driving behind one! Worse, the Advantage has practically NO options available, so there is no variance within the same model. Uch. That f*&%ign Gillig Advantage is pushing me over the edge. It's what's wrong with American transit bus design...
I was typing about the Advantage in such disgust that I made a few errors:
The sides are unimaginative and uninspirted.
The sides are unimaginative and uninspired.
...that even I, a sworn bus fan, gets angered driving behind one!
...that even I, a sworn bus fan, get angered driving behind one!
That f*&%ign Gillig Advantage...
That f*$#ing Gillig Advantage...
Sorry about those errors. (What can I say? Language is my second passion after transit, so I felt the need to make these corrections...)
LOL! No problem...you were venting after all.
-F.
>>> What could possibly be good-looking about this quintessential box-on-wheels?! <<<
For those of us who appreciate simplicity and form following function, this is a very good looking transit bus. A bus is basically a box on wheels so why shouldn't it look like one? The flat smooth sides lend themselves to many different paint schemes in accordance with the wishes of the operator. The side windows are nicely proportioned to the overall height of the bus. The rear of the bus is plain to allow the sale of advertising space. This is a design that can last many years without looking outdated. I hate to break it to you, but the days of the Flxible Clipper are long gone.
Tom
Old Tom:
You and I obviously have some different views about the entire mindset surrounding a transit system.
Status quo, inside-the-"box" thinking is precisely the reason that transit ridership has generally plummeted over the past fifty years - and physical, aesthetic vehicle design has a lot to do with this.
Listen to what you say: "A bus basically is a box on wheels." That is absolutely true. But if transit systems and bus manufacturers maintain that mentality, we are doomed to a hundred more years of unimaginative, just-good-enough designs.
That would be like a busy transit system having the slogan "We move the cattle." Once again, this is the bottom line of transit operation, but using such a slogan would convey a half-ass, settle-for-less, ho-hum attitude.
Look at virtually any European transit system. They pride themselves in sharp paint schemes, attractively designed and customer-friendly vehicles, and retail-style marketing. Same goes for America's #1 transportation choice: the personal automobile. Cars are vigorously marketed and their designs are constatly updated to be as appealing as possible to as many people as possible.
Back in the era when transit operations were privately owned, companies had to be on the cutting edge of marketing and consumer appeal. Now that transit systems have taken a back seat in the day-to-day transport of most Americans, many of them can get away with no marketing at all and overall poor thinking.
I will give you this about the Advantage: It is so boring and boxy that it does provide a good canvas for unique paint schemes. However, very very few transit systems take advantage of this. My transit system, SMART, is getting a whole load of Advantages. Due to the same ol' same ol' attitude and the application of the boring old paint scheme, these buses look like refrigerators. They are not attractive, and they do nothing to help the public image of SMART.
There is no reason why buses should not be practical, user-friendly, maintenance-friendly, AND attractive! Once again, an attractive bus in and of itself will never be enough to convert a motorist, but it can be part of a larger, improved marketing scheme to make a transit system look better to everyone.
these are good points, but I personally think it would be wierd to see one of those retro style buses that are being planed driving around on the street. I remember seeing a picture of one of those pat Neoplans (I don't remember what it was called) that was a retro mini bus. It sorta looked ugly.
Retro mini bus? What did it look like? Where can I find pics?
Also, I like retro styling cues; the Thomas SLF 200 and the New Flyer Invero are prime examples. Their curved contours and rounded-style lights give them a "New Look" (pardon the pun). Maybe the past is the future of bus design after all.
-F.
I don't remember the exact site. I think it was a link that I found from ctrabs's site. It was for PAT transit. The only 3 of these that exist.
I agree; transit buses have really gone downhill in design and look WAY too plain and boxy. At least the Grumman 870/Flxible Metro had a sleek look to its simple design. The only good-looking bus left is the RTS; hopefully that design will survive somehow. If only new bus designs were as advanced as they were in the late 70s and early 80s; you'd think they would look even sleeker now in 2001, but not so.
It's sad when 20-something year old buses that are all worn out and banged up look newer than the sparkling brand new buses that have replaced them. It's GOTTA get better than this!
-F.
Tom, I like the Clipper but agree that it would never work design-wise as a new bus. Good point on the sides; also, the great thing about Gilligs is that they are styled very proportionate, as opposed to other designs. That is why I like them.
-F.
The front end design is what makes it look good; also, I like the use of regular transit wheels and the trademark octagonal fenders on the 35 and 40' models. The 30-footers, however, look less attractive with its smaller wheels and fenders that make the bus look ridiculous. I agree about the back end; it is a bit hideous. And yes, they are a bit sparse on the inside.
-F.
Yes, this is the Bird's first serious endeavor into the heavy-duty transit bus market. A close competitor for the Gillig Phantom.
Dude...it looks like a GILLIG PHANTOM! Maybe a hint of New Flyer at the windshield and a bit of RTS-08 with that bulging front end, but overall it looks like a light-duty Gillig. NO WAY that looks like a NYC bus!!!
-f.
nyc can use a new bus-this could be the future of transit.
The 102 looks OK but is just not big city material. Let's hope that heavy-duty transit vehicles have a brighter future than this. Shoot, the Gilligs look more like NYC buses than that thing.
-F.
Yesterday was payday at NYCT so along with our paychecks we received a letter stating that NYCT had won the American Public Transportation Association's (APTA) prestigious Public Transportation System Outstanding Achievement Award as the best large transit system in North America. Every NYCT employee received a little APTA Award Winner pin to signify receipt of this prestigious award.
Today i went to NYCT Headquauter to pick up my work assignment for next week & i received a MTA-NYCT APTA pin today.
Peace
David J.
Very cool! Our restored PenTran 1976 Flxible New Look (Hampton, VA) has 1993 APTA decals on the sides from where that TA won the award. The decals were sent with the original PenTran logos from the TA when we restored the bus and we felt they would be a "badge of honor" for the coach. You should see this thing; it looks great!
-Fred
>>>Every NYCT employee received a little APTA Award Winner pin to signify receipt of this prestigious award.<<<
For which APTA charged the cash strapped TA approx. $1 a piece. What a waste!
Peace,
ANDEE
The correct URL for the Blue Bird XCEL 102 site is: http://www.blue-bird.com/xcel.html. My apologies for the error.
Talk of the new Blue Bird coach made me remember all of the many 'almost' transit systems out there - that is to say transit systems at airports, universities, office complexes, fringe parking facilities, etc. Of course, none of these systems are anywhere near the size of the systems we are used to talking about, but a lot of them actually run pretty respectable operations.
For instance, the ATC/Vancom ShuttlePort operation at PHX Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport has a very nice fleet of about 50 total Gillig Phantoms, Orion Vs, and NFI C40LFs and their route structure is quite interesting. LAXShuttle is another solid airport system.
Last week when I was in Cincinnati, I came across a large privately-owned public parking lot on the northeast edge of downtown which had an interesting variety of at least 15 buses running two or three different routes.
I gotta run at the moment, but I would appreciate to read about any of these shuttle operations with which any of you have experience. It can be very hard to obtain info on them, so this would be a great place to discuss!
Regarding the new Blue Bird coach - I can see that selling well with such shuttle operations as those which I mention here. But, I really don't think Blue Bird has its sights set on the 'real' transit market (although they probably will sell a few to public TAs). Introducing a new standard-floor bus is pretty contrary to what's going on the industry now, just ask the RTS!
The Blue Bird XCEL 102 is a two-step entrance vehicle...between a standard-height (three-steps) and a low-floor (no steps).
True...they may actually score a few smaller TAs with the XCEL 102 (am I the only one that thinks it sounds more like a radio station than a bus model?). Valley Metro (Roanoke,VA) tested a Thomas SLF 200; many drivers were unimpresed with it in regular service (it bottomed out going into the Campbell Court transit center...it was just too low for the ramps!) yet we still got two for the Downtown Express shuttle run.
Every driver agrees; it is more suited for shuttle or airport service. There was talk of putting them in regular transit service on Saturdays but one has already been bottomed out all along the left skirt panel from just going around on the shuttle. They are neat-looking though, and they really turn heads Downtown; a lot more so than the regular Gilligs!
-F.
Looking for issues of Bus World to fill gaps in my collection as well any NYCT(bus & sub), MSBA, Suffolk, Westchester, Metro North or LIRR maps from 1980's and early 90's.
Please email me(don't post on the board) with what you have and your asking price....
Thanks
Hello,
I am offering New Officially Licensed MTA / NYCTA / LIRR Products
Hat / Lapel Pins
RTS Bus Key Chains & Hanging Ornaments
Subway Car Key Chains & Hanging Ornaments
Subway Destination & Line Letter Pins
NYCTA RTS Bus Soft Stuffed Squeeze Toy
NYCTA Subway Car Soft Stuffed Squeeze toy
New Products Coming In Daily
You can buy direct from me or visit my E-Bay Auctions to place a bid.
www.ebay.com
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For a Photographic Download of my products please send me an e mail at M23BUS@CS.COM & use the subject heading " MTA MERCHANDISE "
Thank you
Anthony Irace
The only location I know is by Kings Plaza. Are their any other, because I never seen one anywhere else.
-Jay
They go all over the city. Local newspapers usually carry either ads or announcements from elected officials indicating where either a bus or a MetroCard van will be on a particular day.
David
You can get a Metrocard Bus/Van schedule for the year from the Bus Customer Relations Center. Call 1-888-NYCTBUS and they'll mail you a schedule free of charge.
I thought they did them by season (winter, spring, summer, fall). They don't vary all that much. Third Avenue at 79th Street is the 1st and 3rd Wednesday of each month and ties up the M101/102/103 bus stop quite a bit.
Ive seen it in Starrett City, Bay Ridge, and on Thursday when I picked up my Dad from 370 Jay St. It was parked near the TA building.
The MetroCard Bus and Van
Click the "locations and daily schedules" link.
--Mike
Actually there is only 1 Metrocard bus and 1 van. They try to have the bus at a different location every day, but it does run according to the schedule card. However, don't look for the bus right now. It is currently off the road. It broke down! While it was in the shop, a manager saw it and didn't like the way it looked. So after it is repaired, it will have all the wraps ripped off of it and have a brand new wrap installed so it will have a fresh look for the new year.
BIG AL
Sure about that? There were two Metrocard buses at one point...perhaps the van replaced one of them?
David
Wait - I thought there were 2 ex 1981 RTSs as the MC Bus - one being 12xx and the other I forget???
Did one get scrapped?
As far as I know, there was only 1 metrocard bus, a 1200 series I believe also. I'll check some of the higher ups this week to see what the exact number is. But just by coincidence, I was talking with a superintendent about the Metrocard bus on Thursday, 12/6, and he told me the story about what happened with the bus. He implied that it was the only one also.
BIG AL
the mertocard bus is 1291-a 1981 RTS-i saw the number on the licence plate.
Does anyone know what number the other one was?
And will there be another Metocard Bus soon, or will the 1291 be the last one?
Hello,
I am offering New Officially Licensed MTA / NYCTA / LIRR Products
Hat / Lapel Pins
RTS Bus Key Chains & Hanging Ornaments
Subway Car Key Chains & Hanging Ornaments
Subway Destination & Line Letter Pins
NYCTA RTS Bus Soft Stuffed Squeeze Toy
NYCTA Subway Car Soft Stuffed Squeeze toy
New Products Coming In Daily
You can buy direct from me or visit my E-Bay Auctions to place a bid.
www.ebay.com
Search /
Search By Seller /
E BAY USER ID
THE-GOOD-ADS-GUY
I accept Pay Pal on line credit card payments
For a Photographic Download of my products please send me an e mail at M23BUS@CS.COM & use the subject heading " MTA MERCHANDISE "
Thank you
Anthony Irace
You posted this yesterday. It's only a few lines down. You should be banned for spamming.
If you work for transit be aware Mr. Reuter has banned distribution of such items to non-employees via the internet or other sale.
I agree you are a nuisance.
"If you work for transit be aware Mr. Reuter has banned distribution of such items to non-employees via the internet or other sale"
He states at the top of his post that the merchandise is Officially licensed by the MTA.
Bill "Newkirk"
Please do not inquire from this point on. All newsletters are gone. Those who have emailed will receive them during the week. Thanks.
While driving down Tulip Avenue in Floral Park i encountered a Fishbowl coming in the opposite direction. I didnt get a look at the side too well because of the rain, but i did note a red stripe with yellow lettering on the stripe. The rear had orange directional lenses. (btw, the taillights were out)
I dont know if it was an old Triboro, or maybe a Metro Apple Express refugee......
....and 3973 on the Q46 yesterday.....i was ready to push it with my car....that front suspension has to go
The fishbowl sounds like it's owned by small start-up company or owned by a church group. Keep yours eyes open and keep us posted.
Saw this movie last night on the Bravo Cable Channel. It starred Angie Dickinson, Michael Caine, Deborah Allen, the kid who later was Rodney Dangerfield's son in Back to School, and a young Dennis Franz of NYPD blue. He had longish hair and was about 40 pounds lighter.
The flick was filmed in 1980 in New York City.
Anyway at one point "Rodney D's son" drops off a roll of film at a walk-up window. In the background is a NYCTA Flxible New Look in the White/Blue livery going across the screen. Didn't catch the passenger door to see the #.
I also have a post about this flick on Sub-Talk
Saw this on HBO(or was it SHO),however it showed a scene were 6128(then a 1972 TDH-5310) was supposedly sprayed painted by the Timothy Hutton character in the flim as well as a RED & TAN MC-9(# was 11--,couldn't see the rest)Also even though not bus related your obligatory graffiti painted R-30(Did that bring back a flood of memories).
Bus 6128 was a 1971 (not '72) T6H-5309A (not 5310). The 1971 T6H-5310's were the express coaches 6165-6199.
Mark
Usually, in animated shows, buses are usually drawn quite poorly, or in shapes not seen in reality, but on tonight`s show, there were several scenes in which buses were seen. Apparently, the animator had NEOPLANS on his mind, since the buses were drawn to look like NEOPLANS, both interior and exterior.
No way..too cool! Yeah, Mike Judge is good about making vehicles look prototypical...for example:
-Hank Hill's Ford Ranger pickup (although it is claimed to be a 92 by Hank, it is actually a 93-97 body style.)
-Peggy Hill's 1980 Buick Century
-Boomhauer's 1968 Dodge Super Bee (I LOVED that one...ARRH ARH AHHH!)
Beavis and Butt-Head:
-RTS full of nuns in the movie
-Dodge Intrepid in a neighbor's garage
The Simpsons is also good for this as well. Examples:
-The Springfield Philharmonic Orchestra's RTS
-NYCTA Orion Vs (complete with 6V92TA sound effects!)
-1987 Buick Skylark (spun basketball-style by Johnny Carson...LOL!)
-Hans Moleman's AMC Gremlin (Marge also had one in high school!)
-Homer's 1970 Plymouth Road Runner from high school (again, I liked this one!)
-Moe's 1977 Oldsmobile
-Mr. Burns' 1990 Pontiac Trans Sport (called a 1997 Astrovan inn the show, though the Astro is totally different and the Trans Sport was ended in 1996)
-1991-94 Ford Explorer (called the "Canyonero")
-Superintendent Chalmers' 1979 Honda Accord (complete w/ "H" emblem)
-1996 Ford Crown Victoria (rented by Bart with a fake ID)
-Ned Flanders' 1989-94 Geo Metro
-1964 Ford T-Bird convertible owned by Marge's friend (the friendship and car are reminiscent of "Thelma and Louise")
And last but not least...
-Troy McClure's DeLorean DMC-12 (You may remember him as Phil Hartman)
Also, I saw a Fishbowl on "Ren And Stimpy" recently. What a great job they did on the windshield!
-F.
-1964 Ford T-Bird convertible owned by Marge's friend (the friendship and car are reminiscent of "Thelma and Louise")
That was a '66. And you left out Snake's '68 Firebird 400 :).
Oh, snap...my bad. You're absolutely right! And how could I forget Snake's 68 Firebird? Too many bus fumes, I guess....LOL.
-F.
Ooh...very cool! A Flx New Look still in service and Sipowicz with long hair...LOL. Gotta see that!
-F.
Breezed thru Stamford last Wednesday. Scanias are still running, happily. When they are gone, Madison, Wisconsin and Hawaii will be the only properties still using Scanias. Or are they?
Stopped in Westport. Plenty of Caprice taxis, for those interested in this. And the Westport Transit operates a small fleet of Thomas lowfloors, designed by Dennis of England. Beautiful little bus, nice looking interiors.
Just missed one New Flyer Lowfloor in Hartford. It was running the airport line. Same buses as Stamford. Plenty of New Flyer high floors but unable to tell if the x-Stamford's were there or not. I was impressed with the New Haven division's ElDorado E-Z Rider low floors.
Much happenings in Connecticut. Should make a return trip this week.
jrc
I am surprised you still saw some Scanias. Perhaps not all the New Flyer low floor buses are in, because the Scanias are supposed to be history when they are. The 1994 New Flyer commuter express buses that had been in I-Bus service in Stamford (961-965) are headed back to Hartford (if they are not already there). I understand Hartford will be getting an additional 40 or so New Flyer low floor buses in the Spring of 2002. I believe all three CT Transit divisions originally had some 1999 ElDorado E-Z Rider low floors, but don't know if this is still the case.
I heard that Stmfd division had the EZ's but not confirmed it. No one I know ever saw one. If anything it would have replaced the 35 foot Scania they operated. And that would loop thru the train station.
The New Flyers would need to be renumbered into the HArtford fleet. Perhaps this has not happened. It would be a hoot if the Stamford classics get sent to Hartford or New Haven.
Well, Joe,
the last time I went up there...I did see one lone ElDorado, but it was far away and travelling so fast, I didn't get the number...I don't think Stamford has it anymore, but youcan check the Stamford Commuter lines from the Gateway station and see if they're there...otherwise, they might have given it to New Haven.
Carlton
COAST of Portsmouth NH also has Scanias, although when I was up there in June they had gotten a few Gillig Phantoms.
Great to hear that Caprices are still being put to good use; our local Yellow Cab is running a bunch of them,and most are ex-Virginia State Police cars. You shouldsee them when they first come in with the battering ram bumpers..if only they'd keep them on when they are "hacked out" for revenue service. That would look tough! GM really lost out when they stopped making those..that and the RTS.
Thomas SLFs are neat buses; we now have two here in Roanoke for our Downtown Express shuttle. They have a really neat paint scheme; deep blue with grey skirt panels and retro-40s style triple white and yellow pinstripe designs on the sides. I hope to have pics up soon; also, I just finished making a model of one, and it looks great!
-F.
Thanx for the info on the Thomas AND the Caprices. Love that car!
I hope the Thomas catches on. Has that distinct front windshield with a false curve to it. If I can ever learn to scan pix to this site I can do it with the shots I took. Hope to see your Roanokes.
joe c
You bet....that's what we're all here for! Yeah, the Thomas loks pretty neat for sure...the front end treatment lends sort of a "retro" look that is fresh and new. The curved windshield and bold chrome emblem underneath reminds you of the fishbowl, while the "bug-eye" round headlights recall the Old Look. Very neat.
I will try to put up pics of the Roanoke versions soon.
-Fred
It is a hoot to see the actual Dennis buses in British service. They are mirror images with the "Dennis" name displayed under the windshield.
joe c
I know...they are really something. Actually, that bus, the Dennis Dart, usually looks totally different in the front end; it has flush Euro-style headlamps and looks a lot like the DMC-80, the MAN-based DeLorean bus (yes, you read it right) that was never produced.
-Fred
I recall that DMC very well. It debuted at the NY 1979 APTA show. I still have the builders literature. The DMC would fit in nicely in today's lowfloor market.
joe c
Yes it would. Reminds me a lot of the New Flyer LF, actually. A DeLorean buff friend of mine saw a pic of our old 1979 Grumman 870s from here in Roanoke and said they resemble the DMC-80 but I just don't see it. They are WAY boxier than a Grumman.
-F.
DeLorean put together a first class car. People around my corner here had two of them. Not sure where the cars or the people went.
The bus, well now that was a boxy baby. And it did look sort of like the NF. Many more European buses are quite similar to it. Ahead of its time.
joe c
Right...very ahead of its time. I LOVE the DeLorean cars...if only the bus was as sleek. The DMC bus was WAY too boxy for my taste. In design aesthetics, I'd say the Grumman 870 looked closer to a DeLorean than the DMC-80 did. Put some gullwings on a silver Grumman and you'll have a "BUS To The Future"...but don't forget to check the FLX capacitor. LOL!
-F.
Is the constuction already done with the Bway Junct./Rockaway Pkwy L-line tracks?
The shuttle buses are now running between Myrtle Av. and Lorimer St. . So I decide to take a few free rides.
FP put more crap on the shuttle, while ENY and FLA used their Novas.
Off topic, but I need to know if the new R143 Subway cars are being tested on the weekends. If so, tell me where.
Shuttle to Lorimer St.- RTS Nova #9217(126St.)
Shuttle to Myrtle Av.- RTS TMC #8564(JG)
Q55- RTS TMC #8152
-Jay
Today, the R143 train is on the L running on the shuttle segment from Canarsie to Myrtle/Wycoff. I just rode it......Construction seemingly will never end on the L line. Just saw another poster today refering to shuttle bus service during the midnite hours from now till March, 2002 betweem Lormier and Myrtle/Wycoff. A new signal system will be installed on the L line, so service interruptions will continue well beyond that time. NYCT still has a long way to go regarding the structural reallignment in the Atlantic Ave, area as well.
Just a note. YUK has all 20 of its new MCI's in. The Orion V's currnetly at Yukon will likely be reassigned.
Mark
Where will the other MCI buses go-UP, JAM and QV? Where would the Orions go to-CS/QV? I remember when QV had 143-148 and 153 so I could see them getting more to replace 1751 1767 1773 and 1852 and the remaining 1985 RTS.
Also will buses 101-172, and 9250-9349 get retrofitted into local seating or will they just leave them the way they are for the local lines? BTW: Last Friday 9290 was on the Q46. I could see the retrofitting-the platforms are bolted down by screws in which they can be replaced by the regular hard seats. Just take the seats that are in the 3900s and place them inside the 100s and 9200s. However to do 200 or so buses like that is a tedious process. 4878 has had this treatment done-why not the others too?
#9290 Q46
#4878 M4
While driving past the Montgomery Division in Rockville today, I saw a whole bunch of New Flyers sitting in the parking lot. I had to drive around the block and come back one more time because it surprised me to see them. I couldn't see the exact number of vehicles there, but it looked like about 20. The only fleet number I could make out was 2312. The best view is coming down Nicholson Lane heading towards 355. If you go down Marinelli, you can see one lone New Flyer near the garage doors on the side of the facility. I guess they are temporarily storing these buses at other locations until Bladensburg is ready to handle them. That would probably mean some other bus jugglings to make room for them as well. We shall see.....
Are they in service yet on any routes? I'll make a point of going to Rockville to see them when I come home later this week, but it would be cool to be able to ride them.
C
I haven't seen any of them in service yet, but it would be interesting to see what routes they put them on. From what I've read on here, I believe they're being held for service at the Olympics. They are parked along the wall that faces Nicholson. As you head down the hill past Nebel Street towards the Budget Rent A Car site, you'll see them lined up looking pretty sharp. I almost ran my car into the curb looking at them as I wasn't expecting to see anything there other than the usual fleet.
Thanks for the info; I'll try to drive up there next weekend and get some pictures. Will post here . . . :)
C
Great! I wont have a chance to get up there anytime soon. You should be able to get some decent shots. Enjoy!
No, they can't fuel them.
Cool - I'll try to drive over there during daylight hours with the dig camera to get some shots.
Wayne
That will be great, enjoy!! I hope you can get some good shots. I'm sure they'll be there for awhile, especially if they're going out to Utah for the Olympics.
They are going to Utah since Bladensburg can't fuel them yet. Why they even came here first is beyond me.
Bladensburg can't fuel them...
In a few of the more recent Honda commercials, they use a fishbowl. One was filmed inside the bus, and I've seen a few with the bus in the background. Is this a bus that's privately owned (used just for this) or something that's in revenue service?
Very nice. Also, a Fishbowl was seen in a BMW commercial in the early 90s. Also, at Miami-Dade, a Flx Metro is wrapped for a local Honda dealer...complete with Fishbowl-style side windows in the wrap. Very interesting indeed!
-F.
I noticed yesterday at the B78 bus stop at Rock Pkwy and Winthrop St(E.98St/Rutland Rd Bound), there is now a guide-a-ride map. In all my life that I lived in the area there has never been one due to the fact it is only two stops away from the last stop. Looks like is getting ready for the new combination.
& SO here she is !! a flexible bus ??
hmmmmmm???
I THINK THIS IS A FLEXIBLE ???
"I THINK THIS IS A FLXIBLE ???"
You think right.
Great shot, BTW.
appreciate that thank you ....
Yes....it is a FLXIBLE (note there is no "e" between the L and X -- supposedly that was done when the company incorporated, as the government wouldn't allow common words to be used in copyrights, etc.
thats what i thought it is owned by L.A. M.T.A. metro ...thankz
That's it...you've got it! That was exactly why. Great job Steve!
-F.
Wow...great shot! Also, nice architecture...you must live in a really affluent neighborhood.
As an aside, I am not a fan of LA's colors...the stripe is fine but the black wheels are ugly and make the bus look like it is missing hubcaps! White wheels or Alcoa rims would be a vast improvement. Also, the all-white look is TERRIBLE on Flx Metros...and those aluminum window sashes make it look like a prison bus! Black around the windows make the styling on these buses. I mean, come on, LA is a big city..its buses shouldn't look like they're from a small town.
-F.
So how many here remember transfers like these?
I've listed them here on eBay.
I remember those well (also in Queens). In OA territory we only had the Add-A-Ride for an additional cost. I never understood why we didn't have those transfers.
Wayne
Ride a QSC Express & you can still get one, or when the subway is down for a GO & the TA provides a bus (scheduled ahead of time) you'll get a "General Order Transfer". There's also a pink one called a "Block".
Mr rt__:^)
I have an old yellow "block" ticket from the 70's.
Right ... the current one has the same purpose, i.e. an unscheduled event has occured on the subway & folks are given a "Block" so they can transfer free to a bus (NG for another subway line).
At this depot we ask the drivers to turn them in because Jay Street pays us hard cash for them.
Mr rt__:^)
Starting in 1974 when I went to high school in Jamaica and had to ride the Q76, I actually rode as many different lines as I could just so I could get one of those green or yellow-striped slips. Back then the fare with a TA pass was a nickel, while the regular fare was an astronomical 35, later 50 cents. Even though you were only supposed to use the pass on the line listed that you used to and from school, most drivers didn't check.
During the week, after school I'd ride Queens routes and Brooklyn routes that ran into Queens from the FP and ENY depots. On weekends, I'd have to pay full fare to ride Brooklyn buses in other areas, or those on Staten Island. Usually I'd find a treasure trove of Staten Island transfers on the floor of the ferry terminal, so seldom had to pay to ride a bus. For some reason, MABSTOA routes didn't seem to have transfers, so I never got any in Manhattan or the Bronx.
I'd proudly hang them on the bulletin board in my room to the utter bewilderment of my folks. When the painter came and removed all detrius from the wall, my transfers for the Q1, 3A, 13 and 17 somehow disappeared and I had to ride them all on a combined trip one Sunday in order to get new ones. Compulsive, huh? By 1979 when I got my own car I pretty much stopped using the bus except to get to the subway and Manhattan.
That Add-a-Ride racket was confusing as all get out, because you had to know which lines you could change to free, and which ones you had to buy an Add-a-Ride for. The A-A-R had a separate list of intersecting lines, but neither it nor a transfer covered every combination. When asked, a lot of the drivers weren't even sure what you could or couldn't do. I once paid for an A-A-R boarding the Queens-bound B59 in Williamsburg thinking I could use it to change to the Q88 at Queens Center. THAT was money wasted!
Even a lot of the transfers listed obsolete information. As late as 1977, you could transfer from a Jamaica-bound Q31 to a Jamaica-bound Q17A at Horace Harding 'Boulevard' and Fresh Meadow Lane. This despite the fact that the 31 was extended south from the LIE to Jamaica (hence duplicating the 17A) around 1963; when the LIE was built through the area (late fifties), it cut FML into two; and both buses were shifted off FML onto Utopia Parkway south of the LIE around 1974. Nonetheless, I could get on the Jamaica-bound 31 in Bayside, get a transfer, get off at Utopia & 56th, visit a friend, walk down Utopia to the LIE overpass and board a Jamaica-bound 17A. No 17A driver ever challenged me for using a transfer from a route that was overlapping his.
I believe the type of transfer pictured above was discontinued in 1981 when the fare went to 75 cents and free blue or orange transfers were offered between all intersecting lines- no more A-A-R. Of course, this often didn't apply in Queens with its stew of TA and private lines. You could transfer from QS' Q65 and the TA's 44 at Main & Roosevelt because the two routes ran through there, but not from the 65 to the 16 because the 16 terminated there. The driver on the second bus would sometimes accept an illegitimate transfer if he was in the mood (or if you played dumb) but you couldn't count on it.
Of course, with the unlimited Metrocard, none of this matters.
When I moved out on my own in 1983, I put all those transfers, most of which were frayed and faded into a plastic sandwich bag. They might still be around somewhere, but there's in no shape to be sold. Don't know that I would even if they were.
That story sounds very familiar to me. I started collecting transfers in 1973 when I was in Jr. High. I lived in Brooklyn, (still do) and had the pass where you didn’t have to pay a nickel, so I couldn’t get transfers that way. I had a neighbor who was a bus operator, and he would bring me transfers and block tickets from the Ulmer Park depot, at the end of his shift.
I would go around on my bike to the other depots, and look in the trash and find loads of transfer pads. I remember at one point I was missing a transfer from the B33 Hamilton Ave. line, and actually took a ride and paid a fare, (in each direction) just to get the transfers.
And yes I also did the Staten Island Ferry terminal thing too :-)
I had written to the Transit Authority once and got a list of all the bus depots, but instead of visiting them, I sent a stamped self addressed envelope to each depot asking for transfers, and most of them sent them.
I used to take trips to Transit HQ at 370 Jay. The office of public affairs (I think it was on the eighth floor) always has plenty of interesting stuff that they gave out, like old badges, photocopies of old subway maps, and some original 1964 Worlds Fair maps.
They also had one more thing. A package of one of EVERY transfer from the entire city! (even Manhattan and the Bronx) They even put in Subway to Bus transfers, ie; Franklin Avenue Shuttle, and tickets the bus drivers would give on bridges “in lieu of Toll”.
Every once and a while I’d write to 370 Jay, and they’d send me a new pack of transfers. I don’t really know why they made up these sets, but they gave them out for free if you’d write. Newer ones contained every “Add-a-Ride” ticket from the entire city.
I moved out also in 1983, threw out most of my transfers, (I had stacks) put the rest up in the Attic of my parents house. Up until recently I didn’t give them a second thought, but have just started going through my old stuff.
I’m thinking about scanning some of my stuff in and setting up web site of my collection.
I wrote to every city I could think of and have transfers, maps, schedules and annual reports from all over the place, mostly dated 1973.
I have a small stack of transfers sitting somewhere in my room. I even have a stack of MetroCard transfers and MetroCards.
Look at those MC Transfers carefully, you'll find there have been 3 versions of them (not counting the test versions). The early plain "blue" MCs are a hot item with collectors, so don't just give them away. If you want to talk more about what you have in early MCs please feel free to e-mail me directly.
At this depot it was OUR job to issue school passes (cards) to kids that needed to ride our routes ... I'm glad that job went away !
Mr rt__:^)
I have one of the blue and white MC transfers, which version is this?
I have transfers marked "B99" with bus numbers like 996 and 999.
Guess where they're from?
One hint: No Vikings involved.
I have many transfers dating from the 1930's through the 1990's, of the NYC area, as well as other areas of the U.S. and Canada. Anybody interested?
Harry P.
Sure! What are some of the transfers that you have?
I have thousands of duplicates -- all major systems and many others. The bulk is from the 1940's to 1980's. Heavy on Philadelphia, Brooklyn trolleys, other NYC sytems, California (L.A., San Francisco), Chicago, Boston, etc. For more details, email me at HP1944@aol.com.
Harry P.
I have transfers marked "B99" with bus numbers like 996 and 999.
Guess where they're from?
One hint: No Vikings involved.
The Answer: Transfers described above were issued at the Franklin Avenue/Fulton Street stations before the Franklin Avenue Shuttle was closed for renovation. Each token booth had a bus farebox and clerks issued the transfers. The renovation features an enclosed transfer so this practice was abandoned.
As long as there is not a transfer marked 666. LOL
Only on the Orion V out of Stengel, or the Triboro Coach bus of that number. I actually had an experience on Triboro 666. The wheelchair seats were broken.
I've experienced both 666 buses. 666 on the Q18 and 666 on the Q32. Triboro 666 has happy faces inside the 6's. Stengel 666 I believe have different fonts on the #'s on the inside. TCC 666 was slow. I do have to say that MTA 666 was much better and faster than TCC 666.
Case in point TCC 666 is a 1985 GMC RTS-04 and MTA 666 is a 1996 Orion 5. No wonder why MSBA aka LI Bus got rid of their 666 bus. They thought it was evil.
Imagine if QSC had #666. I can see it now-#666 on the Q66. LOL-EVIL!
#666 Q18
#666 Q32
Too crazy! IIRC, the original fleet no. of Joe Saitta's restored Flx New Look was 666 but he changed it to 699 to avoid confusion with the occult. I wonder if he has notation of that when he displays the bus, or if he just lets it slide and does not make note of it?
Not correct. Bus 699's number was changed by the Metropolitan Suburban Transportation Authority, when MSBA was formed, to avoid a conflict with ex-Bee Line Fishbowl 666. The Bee Line GMC Fishbowls were numbered from 650 through 698; the number 699 had not yet been used and that number was assigned to Mid Island Transit 666. Incidentally, Mid Island Transit received the (now my) bus, a 1970 Flxible, with the fleet number 666, but this bus and its sisters (series 663-668) never operated in revenue service for MIT, which had gone bankrupt just prior to the arrival of these Flxibles, 35 of which were purchased by Nassau County for not only MIT, but also Universal Auto Bus in Great Neck, Hempstead Bus Corporation and Semke.
It is true that MSBA/MTA Long Island Bus 666 has not seen much service. Perhaps Bee Line 666 and Flxible 699 (ex-666) cast a "don't use my number or else" spell over it!
Isn't 666 one of the first Orion CNG's to arrive at MSBA/LIB? They have the oldest form of the Cummins L10G and my guess is 657-666 are pretty hard to keep on the road.
Wait a minute...isn't that a Detroit Diesel-powered coach? Joe, you know better than we do!
-F.
When the Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority was formed in 1973, there were originally two buses numbered 666: a 1965 Bee Line Fishbowl TDH-5304, which retained its number until retired by MSBA, and a 1970 Flxible Fishbowl Model 111CC-D51, which was immediately renumbered to 699 as that number was unused in the MSBA roster. Thus, the Flxible spent most of its life operating as number 699. Both were Detroit Diesel powered. Orion 666 was in the first order for ten CNG buses for MSBA. I am uncertain of the engine type, but it is Cummins powered.
Wow, what a fascinating history; thanks again, Joe!
-F.
Oh, I see; thanks for the information, Joe..I always wondered about that. What a nice bit of history there!
-F.
LI Bus still have #666.A 1992 Orion5 #666 it's one of the 10 Order in 1992 and it runs on the N25 and N14. BUT IT A RARE BUS AND CAN BE FROUND ON THOSE ROUTES.
PenTran (Hampton,VA) had a fleet of 1976-77 Flxible New Looks numbered 600-682, including a 666 which I have seen pictures of. We have no. 621 in our museum fleet, which we have restored to original 1976 colors. And its 8v71 still runs GREAT!
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
That is the FIRST official version. The second said MetroCard Transfer, and the current one says MetroCard Bus Transfer.
There is also a green one, but that is actually a single ride ticket/MetroCard vs. a Transfer.
The other three I have are: Orange, which sayd $1.25, "Test Period Only"; and Cubic internal (used to test out farebox). I believe there was a variation used on SI, but I don't have any of them.
Mr rt__:^)
I use to collect bus transfers myself. I have a shoebox full of them from the orange and blue strips of paper. I have a lot of Q17A, Q30, Q43, Q36. I use to live on 169th St two blocks north of Hillside Av. I also have some NYCDOT bus transfers from the Q6, Q10, Q60 and transfers from the Q65 as well. Also, I have a B68 transfer.
Ray
The "private" ones had the names of the different companies on them.
Mr rt__:^)
I mistakingly posted this in subtalk. The TA wants to retire all 6V92 engine RTS's. The repowered detroit diesal series 50 transmission RTS's will replace these. Some repowers have recieved 6V92 RTS destination luminators. The razed seats in the rear of the repowers is ok, my feet still don't touch the floor. Why didn't they slop the floor up like the Orions?
Late again son, Most if not all of us know about this like a year ago! LOL!
Sowwy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
My fault, I just got a handle here.
It's Ok Though! :o)
Trev.
What a shame...I love the 6v92s. In spirit, the Cummins ISL would be a MUCH better replacement than the Series 50.
-F.
I will miss the sound of the DD 6V-92. I think it sounds much better than the DD Series 50/60. I've gotten used to the Cummins engines, but I don't think they sound good at all. Soon the only engine I'll probably enjoy hearing is the 3.0L 24V V-6 in my car. ...Or maybe these new generation diesels will grow on me.
Wayne
Wayne, I agree; I LOVE the sound of a 6V92. Actually, the ISL coupled to a Voith sounds nice and smooth...kind of like a quiet 92 Series if you will. Either sounds MUCH better than the clanky Series 50, at least in my experience.
-F.
NYCT knows Cummins is a risky proposal. Detroit Diesel has a much better track record.
True..and they are also more widely used in transit.
-F.
I guess I'm the lone DD50 fan here; I LOVE the sound of it. Having said that, I also like the 6V92 sound and can truly appreciate the sentiments expressed here.
I like both the 6V-92 and Series 50. What I can't stand are those Cummins engines, I am no fan of those loudmouths.
Really? Yeah, they are kinda loud...but the larger 6-cylinder variants are surprisingly quiet in newer models.
-F.
You're not the only DD 50 fan here. Being a 6V92 fan, it took awhile for the DD 50 to grow on me. But their power and reliability has converted me.
Our newest NABI LF with the DD 50 really have an awesome takeoff. You have to be careful not to knock standees off their feet.
Since the artics we purchased in '95, Miami-Dade has been all DD 50 til now.
-Joe
Hmm...well, the Series 50 has grown on me somewhat as I have become more of a regular bus rider. The more I hear it, the more it sounds like a bus engine; also, the vibrating and droning sounds that it makes on our 94 Gilligs puts me right to sleep after a long hard day!
I still like the sound of the 6v92 MUCH better though...:)
-F.
Yukon depot has new 2800 series D4500's. Most drivers complain that they smell too new. I have yet to ride one.
The smell will die down like any new bus. The 28xx Series MCIs (2805-2824) has been fully in for close to a week now! A Little Late there!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Does Castleton have the same buses?
No, 2805-2824 are all at Yukon!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
These are MCI D4501s!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Any differences between D4500 and D4501?
#2804 X27
#2805 X17
On the page that lists all Brooklyn routes where you click for the schedule, the description of the route is "Bay Ridge Parkway/ Neptune Avenue." That's NOT the route of the B41. Which route is "Bay Ridge Parkway/ Neptune Avenue"? and how do you get the MTA to change the description?
That route hasn't changed in 50 years.
Michael
I know I'm NOT going crazy
even though I live in Washington, DC
Sorry, I just found out that the description for B4 is listed for B41. The question remains: How do you get the MTA to change the description?
Michael
When is the Orion 7 coming, I do know that they will pick up the 9700 series.
Orion 7 order is delayed until 2003.
Orion 07.501 CNG #s will be 7560-7809, the Orion 07.501 Hybrid #s will be 9700-9824.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Why number them 7560-7809, why not 5510 and so on...
Because 5510 and up are slated to for remaining Articulated Orders.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Uh huh.
When will artics come to Flatbush?
Not for a good long time buddy! Flatbush is no where near ready for thier alotment of Artics.
126th is barely ready!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
One artic did go to Flatbush, do it not?
Yeah BACK IN 1997!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Anytime soon.
Barely is overdoing it...what's the word below barely? Unsuitable? :-)
Thank You Clayton!
Trev.
When will Amsterdam depot close and where will those Orions go?
Look at the archives...
You seem to be a very inquisitive young man. Well, let me help you out with something. Because of the current state of affairs including the MTA facing a multi-billion dollar deficit, and its primary bus manufacturers (Orion, Nova and New Flyer) having all kinds of trouble, allow me to let you in on a little secret--aside from 100 new MCI's for Castleton, Queens Division and perhaps Quill in June, NOTHING ELSE IS GOING TO HAPPEN!!! NOTHING!!!! No new CNG's, no new Hybrids, no new diesels, no new Orions, Novas or Flyers. No new depot openings (Coliseum/Maspeth) and no depot closings (Amsterdam, et al).
Just follow the message board if you want to keep yourself posted on any developments. Until then, it makes no sense speculating or guessing what is going to go down in the future. That goes for anyone else out there who dreams of new and fancy bus scenarios.
Mark
Sure nuff
I am interested in people's ideas, but as long as it is clear they are on the basis there is unlimited capital and viechles. I've got some ideas that are great on paper but won't work when they pull out of the depot.
So this means Hudson will not close and The 4600s-4800s may be repowered and live on with older models?
OMG, I really hope the 4600-4899 doesn't get repowered. If this happens, the Brooklyn Division(esp. FP) will have to suffer with them forever!
-Jay
I know I shouldn't be posting this here, but here it is. I assure this information will be discussed at that site. This goes out to MTA bus operators and others. The intent of this is for bus operators Of the TA and elsewhere. So don't flip out. The proper way to start an engine on a bus with a computer controlled transmission is:
A. Turn the Run Switch
B. Wait 5 seconds and listen for 4 clicks or sounds. (This means the computer is initializing the transmission system).
C. Then press engine start. Not only will the bus run better, but it won't stall in service or vibrate as much. Excessive engine
vibration damages the luminator LED display.
This applies to Nova Rapid Transit Series 9500, 9600, 4900 and 5000 units. Orion V 6000-6349, Hybrid 6350 units all New Flyer D60HF 5251-5504. All New Flyer D40LF (Gleason) 800 and 900 units and all MCI D4500 (MC102DL3 cruiser) as well as the new 9700 Orion 7's to be delivered soon. Drivers are blowing transmissions and don't know it and some are getting in trouble and don't know why. Any drivers reading this, please pass it on to the fellas in the field. It is not your fault, it just wasn't properly taught.
Well Kid, Most of us here are bus operators or know bus operators, and I guarentee, 95% to 99% of us knows how to start up a bus! I have since age 5!
Give us something fresh here please?!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I posted this at the riders diaries and they flipped a script on me. They even removed a star from my rating, they buggin'.
Well you have about 2 years of catching up to do on post here. Everything you are posting has either been posted in the past or is widely known!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I've been speeding to much time at that other place. They don't posses half the knowledge yall do.
Wanna bet?
Really?
No, I'm broke.
Because nobody gives a ****!
What the ....
Hmm, apparently we're both leaving out the same word, eh?
LOL!
chill out Tevi. You were new here once...
I'm not that new, I just had trouble getting a handle.
Touché, I retract my annoyances of the previous 10 minutes.
No kidding. Let's not roast the new guy. WELCOME him!
-F.
Hey, how old are you?
Now that is not nice!
The brother has a valid point. All bus operators do know how to start a bus, but hello! This is a new generation of buses with full authority electronic controls. If the operators are not operating these buses in the correct way then you know what? These buses warranties become void! Now if the TA or whomever doesn't want to take the time to teach these minor but new techniques to the operators, then it suits the TA just right for paying extra money for work that would have been covered under warranty. Also if these practices are followed these new buses would last alot longer, I can tell you that these new Nova RTS's and Orion V's are not built worth Sh*#! Even the newer Flxible METRO D's, compared to the METRO B series the D's are not as solid because they are we now dealing with buses that use more "Universal" parts that have been used in trucks for years to make the overall cost of parts replacement "Cheaper". I for one am not impressed!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
DaShawn, you have made some very valid points here indeed. Care must be taken not to screw up the bus! Who pays for it when they break down? WE do. Amen!
-F.
Nice explanation. Many of us here are pretty well versed on buses. Especially T-Drive and myself. This is no real news to me. The 1996 Novas/Orions were the last to come in with air starters. I'll tell you what. Since you seem to know your stuff I won't flip on you too much. In fact go check out my bus roster on Trevor's web site.
Mark
You are right ... you shouldn't have posted it here.
Mr rt__:^)
I don't know why anyone should have trouble starting a bus....if they were meant to wait 4-5 seconds, then that would be set in the computer to begin with.
I drive 1995/1998 NFI D40LF's, as well as some older RTS's that have been updated with the Allen Bradley computer systems. And on ALL these buses, you CANNOT start the bus utnil the computer lets you start it. There's no such thing as rushing....you turn on the master switch, wait until all the lights light up then go out, and then it will start. It will NOT start until it's ready to do so.
What exactly is an Allen Bradley computer system? I am not familiar with those and would like to know more.
-F.
Allen Bradley is the manufacturer of the computer systems.
You might be able to find out something about it by going to:
http://www.ccw.com
That's the site for Complete Coach Works (unless they changed it AGAIN...) and they did have a dissertation on these systems. They're the ones that rebuilt 41 of our RTS's with the system.
Oh, I see; thanks for the info!
-F.
So, no key? Anyway, speaking of starting up buses, I saw this driver take the key out of a Neoplan and the engine kept running. Isn't this sorta not good in some way that the bus was built with that ability?
Since when did buses come with keys? This is news to me...never seen one on a bus, even when I drove them.
-F.
A question about bus security. When transit and MCI tour buses are parked on the street, how secure are they? As I remember it is very easy to start a MCI and a city bus. You dont even need keys. Most European bus companies like Neoplan, Van Hool use ignition keys.
It easier then stealing a car. I think that this is a importent issue that have to be taken care of.
(Throughout this post, I am going to pick on bus #5232. Not necessarily the 1999 NYCT NovaBUS RTS by that number, but just any bus with that random number.)
You raise some interesting points, but a theif would have to be pretty dim to steal a bus, transit or tour.
You could be driving in the midst of stolen cars and never know it. A bus, on the other hand, is clearly identifiable by company markings, fleet numbers, and other characteristics. Since bus thefts are far less common than car thefts (an understatement), were a bus stolen, people would be asked to keep their eyes open for bus #5232. I cannot imagine that any general criminal would have the prowess to
think to change the number.
Also, several large transit systems have fleet numbers on top of the buses. So say if a dumb theif steals bus #5232, the police would be able to comb the area by helicopter and look for buses in strange areas. If they spot #5232, it's then as simple as telling its whereabouts to police on the ground.
In the one incident of bus theft that comes to mind for me, a SEPTA NABI was stolen in 1997 or so. The theif drove it wrecklessly for a few miles and then lost control and crashed it. I don't believe any passengers were involved and the perpetrator was punished accordingly.
There was also a incident in California where a man stole a tour bus and wreck a whole bunch of cars and police crusiers before crashing into a house.
I few months ago a couple of guys stole a Greyhound bus out of the Charlotte terminal and drove it all the way to Atlanta. They were not caught.
Operators can deactivate the starter, which is part of the rule governing bus securement, however, there will always be those who have the knowledge to defeat the effort. Buses in general aren't very secure, which is why, given the events of late, discussions based on topics of this nature should be handled responsibly, and with care.
How do you deactivate the starter other than the battery switch? (Example: on an older bus such as a Flx New Look).
Also, you'll love this; our new Gilligs have a large label that reads "BATTERY DISCONNECT" and a large orange arrow that points to the access door. How stupid is that? It might as well say "STEAL ME". Also, what if some joker decides to shut down the bus while no one is looking?
-F.
Yeah, most of WMATA's Orions and Flxibles have that same kind of label on the door. However, they're normally kept on 24-hour secure lots when not in service, so the only real opportunity for theft would come between routes when an operator leaves the bus for a few minutes to take a bathroom break or wait for the next operator. But as others have pointed out, stealing a bus is pretty damn stupid.
C
Exactly. And our buses are not only kept inside at night, but there is also enough people and bus traffic in our Downtown terminal that someone would surely catch the culprit in time. And yes, stealing a bus is pretty damned stupid; where would you hide it?
-F.
I remember something about a NYCTA bus operator back in the 1960's who attempted to take a bus to Florida. What I think happened was that the bus was spotted somewhere in New Jersey and was stopped by police.
I was always concerned as a bus driver for the University of MD, that someone would try to take the bus if I left it when I was parked in DC or somewhere that wasn't on school property. On the Flxibles that I'd take, not only would I shut the battery disconnect off, but the handle that operates the door is removable, so I'd carry this big metal thing around with me. It usually fit in my pocket. This way, if someone gets on the bus, they can't go anywhere because there would be no way to turn off the interlock unless they knew of a way of overriding it, which I don't know if you can.
That's a great idea; we have that on our restored Grumman 870 at the museum. The handle is dual-purpose; it also unlocks the front panel between the headlights for towing.
-F.
Yeah, I think ours must have been dual purpose, too, as the maintenance people would refer to it as a "key", even though there was an electric starting mechanism that didn't require an actual key. Putting it back in the little box was always a little challenge, but for the most part it gave me a better sense of security.
Little box? What do you mean? Did you drive Flxes at at TA? I'd like to hear more about this.
-F.
Yeah, I drove Flxs for the University of MD-COllege Park from June 1993-December 1994. I had a great time there. We had other equipment, too, Blue Birds (yuck), Thomas Saf-T-Liners from 1980 (even bigger yuck), a stupid trolley and then we had 1986, 1987 and 1991 30 foot Flxs along with 2 1991 40 foot Flxs.
When I'd do a charter and left the bus in some odd place by itself, I'd make sure to take the silver door handle from the compartment that it was in. That's the box I was referring to. The bottom of the handle was square, so you had to make sure when you put it back in, that the sides were matched up correctly, otherwise the handle would slip in and not reconnect properly. Usually, I got it right away, but a couple of times I timed it wrong.
We had a combination of detroit diesels and cummins. I preferred the pickup of the cummins, but the braking was better on the DD. Also, when I'd be idling at a light or wherever, with a cummins, that engine shook the you know what out of you. The 1991 buses were a little better than the '86 and '87's.
Very nice; the Flxibles are my favorite buses there. Bet they were fun to drive!
-F.
They were great to drive. The turning radius was excellent, too. I have to get back over to Univ. of MD one of these days to check out the new Gilligs. Maybe when we win the Orange Bowl I'll have to check them out. : ) Hey, we're only 18 point underdogs right now, I should dream a little!
Yeah...sounds like Virginia Tech, where I used to drive the Flx Metros at Blacksburg Transit. Always fighting to get to the big bowl! Unfortunately, Miami beat us by 2 points. :( Ouch!
-Fred
I remember that game. Tech had a rough year, this year.
Didn't Blacksburg Transit have a hybird electric bus that they were testing out at one time? I thought it was a Blue Bird or something like that. I remember reading it someplace a few years ago.
I miss driving and whenever I get frustrated with my job I sometimes get the urge to pursue it again. I've kept my CDL since its so hard to get.
Yeah, they have. If only Michael Vick was still there!
I'm not sure about a hybrid electric at Blacksburg but I do know they tested a New Flyer Invero....however, an actual order of those may not come into fruition as regular LFs seem to be on the horizon to replace their 1989 RTSes.
I recall that Richmond (GRTC) had at least one electric bus they were testing...I recall a blue bus and then a yellow one sitting in their garage around 1999. However, with the "Smart Road" in their backyard, it wouldn't surprise me if Blacksburg did test one out...they are pretty much the NYCTA of Southwest Virginia!
-Fred
Yeah, doesn't Virginia Tech have a big transportation program? That's pretty cool to have all these experiments come through there. Maybe they can help MCI design the new Flxible Metro!
Oh, I'd LOVE to see that. The Smart Road would be a WONDERFUL place to test them, especially since the Flxible Metros are proven at their TA. Yes, Blacksburg has a very ample transit system; even more so than Roanoke (as much as I hate to admit it), which has a much larger metropolitan area).
The reason? Tech money. Blacksburg is a college town, with many students who need to get around and parents from all over paying for their childrens' education and a way to get to class. Therefore you have cheaper fares, bus service every 15 minutes (sometimes 7!), and a greater diversity in ridership. Also, students there have a greater respect for transit than most people do here in Roanoke. Another benefit is that the TA there is mostly operated by students, which keeps costs low and gives the bus ops a great experience.
As far as popular opinion about Flxibles in Blacksburg, it's a funny thing; they were supposed to get a new fleet of Metros in 1996 but unfortunately the factory closed down. As a result, they had to wait two years before another manufacturer could accept a bid and got 15 New Flyer LFs in 1998. Those are now the "babies" of their system and all the drivers love their bells and whistles. Unfortunately, the 1986-87 Metros are now the "dogs" of the fleet to most drivers as they are the oldest. But they are still my favorites!
How the new generation of BT would react to new Flxibles remains to be seen, but I do know the maintenance department LOVES them and wishes they were still made. Who knows? I think it would be great to see more Flxes there..preferably with the ISL and Voith combo. Only time will tell!
-F.
We should dare to dream that the Flxs get produced again.
From what I've read about VT, it seems like a really cool place. Who would thing that southwest VA would have such a diversity since there aren't any huge cities down there. That's great that so many of the students use the service. I'm sure they run pretty late so they can all go out and party and not have to worry about driving home.
That was the case at MD. I'd drive them down to the bar area or Fraternity Row, for a night of drinking soda pop and eating pizza of course : ), and then picking them up later that night after a night of playing Monopoly and Scrabble. It was better than having them drive around, that's for sure!
7 minute headways is better than most large transit systems!
Maybe we can write the Engineering or Transportation Dept. there and have them work on a design!
Very true. Blacksburg is certainly a unique Southwest Virginia community in many ways, especially their transit system which rivals that of larger towns and cities in both courtesy and service, seven days a week. Buses run until about 3AM on weekends which greatly reduces the chances of drunk driving. If only we had that in Roanoke where drinking is seemingly the only thing to do around here!
Our buses go back to the garage at 8:45, and there has been no Sunday service since 1978. But we are lucky to have what we do, what with the lack of support for public transit here. Here is a perfect example: for the past few years, the revitalization of our Downtown has inspired well-to-do citizens to renovate older architecture into nicely done storefront apartments and the like, which is wonderful. They formed a Downtown Residents Association, which is also great. BUT..the committee wishes to shut down Campbell Court (our transit and Greyhound bus station) and move the buses out of Downtown because they "don't like the bus noise outside their homes".
To the Downtown Residents Assho...er, I mean Association, I say that is the STUPIDEST thing I have ever heard! You live in a CITY...DOWNTOWN. Hel-LOOOOOOOOOOO?!?! Buses are a part of metropolitan life and actually reduce pollution and traffic in your precious little village. Besides, you restored abandoned older buildings for a useful purpose to save them from the wrecking ball...same story with Campbell Court, built in 1905 and revitalized in 1987 for use as an advanced bus station! If you pansies can't handle that, carry your candy asses BACK to the suburbs you crawled out of when you moved out of Mommy and Daddy's house!
Pardon my rants, but I live in a cesspool of idiots. Sometimes I think I am one of the only people here that actually has some sense.
-F.
It sounds like a lot of wealthier areas around here that don't want the buses coming down their streets. Here in DC, the D2 route was switched to those UGLY Orion II's because the residents moaned and groaned so much about the bigger buses, that WMATA had to bend. I don't know if they could have banned the buses since DC does own the streets, but the smaller buses were put in. From what I understand, these little camper, space coaster looking things had very noisy brakes that made the noise even worse than when a 40 footer rolled through. Oops.
In College Park, MD, there is a street that led directly from Route 1 to the College Park Metro, but the citizens there banned all Shuttle UM buses to use it because they were noisy and an eyesore. However, they had no problems if our ugly trolley came through because it was nicer looking. Screw them. One day I was doing a shuttle loop from the campus to the metro back and forth and a huge thunderstorm rolled through knocking over trees, knocking out the lights, flooding some of the streets, so my only choice was to take that stupid road down. From what I understand, nobody complained, but it was either that or get stuck someplace.
Oh God. Orion IIs. Those damned things are NOT real buses...they look like a mobile home for Mother Goose! Sure, take away the nice-looking buses and put in something ugly. VERY nice. Sounds to me like if they can't handle it, they need to get the hell out of DC!
-F.
How the hell do you get to Florida from NYC by going to Jersey?
-F.
I-95!
Oh, I see; gotcha. That reminds me of a joke:
Two retired businessmen from Jersey are conversing on a beach resort in Florida. One says to the other, "How did you get here?" And he replies, "Well, my business burned down, and my insurance company took care of me, so here I am. So how did you get here?" And the second one says, "Well, my business was flooded out, so I took my insurance money and came down here to retire."
With that, his friend looks back in amazement and says, "So..how did you start a flood?"
I thought that was HILARIOUS when I first heard it!
-F.
True. That and a simple fact....how are you inconspicuous in a big ass BUS?!? And unless you are Sandra Bullock or have swapped in dual supercharged racing Hemis, you will NOT outrun the cops in one!
-F.
For some theives, the intent may NOT be to get away. Ever see World's Wildest Police Videos? Yeah, you know, the clip of the maniac out in LA who swiped an MC-9 and led cops on a high speed chase thru the city, using the behemoth as a battering ram in some cases?
Wait a minute...isn't the intent of a chase to get away in the first place? If not, I have a lot to learn about eluding the police..LOL!
I've seen that too, which reminds me: am I mistaken, or is there, on the front of MC-9s, a button... no... I don't know what exactly to call it, but when the door is closed, it pops out, so you can open it by pushing it in?
[You could be driving in the midst of stolen cars and never know it. A bus, on the other hand, is clearly identifiable by company markings, fleet numbers, and other characteristics.]
When I lived in CT a number of years back, there was a story about a Dattco over-the-road coach being stolen and not heard from in months. Then one day, a Dattco executive or employee spotted the bus in a parking lot in The Bronx, with the Dattco sunshine symbol still on the rear exterior of the bus (which is why it was spotted). The rest of the bus had been repainted. Don't remember whether the police were able to trace back the bus to the criminal who stole it, but I believe they were.
"In the one incident of bus theft that comes to mind for me, a SEPTA NABI was stolen in 1997 or so. The theif drove it wrecklessly for a few miles and then lost control and crashed it. I don't believe any passengers were involved and the perpetrator was punished accordingly"
That was #5267, which was running on the 54 at the time. The hijacker crashed it into the market-frankford el at the intersection of Kensington & Lehigh Avenues, damaged the bus beyond repair. It is SEPTA's only NABI that is scrapped.
And last fall, two teens snuck into the Red Arrow lot and drove off with Neoplan CD #8859 (a suburban soft-seater). But police quickly tracked the bus down and ended the thiefs' joyride about a mile, maybe two, away from Red Arrow--somewhere in West Philly. One cop received minor injuries in the ending of the chase. BTW, to open the front door of a SEPTA Neoplan, open the driver's window from the outside and press the little red button in plain view. But keys are needed to start the engine.
You can make it hard to open the door so they can't get in.
Mr rt__:^)
I can remember years ago there was a guy in NYC that the cops called "Bus Willie" because he used to steal buses and basically joyride. I think once he stole a Greyhound MC-8, pick up some neighborhood kids and took them to Great Adventure.
Wayne
Better example. Some years back, out in NJ, a bunch of kids in Newark managed to get into a Flx Metro D and took it for a wild joyride in the city streets at night. Raised all kinds of H***. NJT earned a black eye from that incident, and I believe that they had to change layover rules afterwards (if my history is wrong, please correct me.)
Oh jeeze. How much of a "black eye" did they get from that?
-F.
Some kid stole a Greyhound bus in DC some time ago. Presumebly he was quite a busfan.
There was also the one where this guy stole a Baltimore MTA Flxible on election night 1996 and took it on a ride down I-95, into Old Town Alexandria where he smashed into a few cars, then took off back onto I-95 where he just glided over spike strips the police put down. I remember the date since I was more interested in the police chase than Clinton winning the election. In fact, the spike strips blew out the tires on the police cars instead of the bus. Eventually, he lost control of the bus around Potomac Mills.
The funny thing was, the local news would put up pictures from the black and white traffic cameras and all of a sudden, you see the bus fly by with a dozen police cars chasing after him.
I know some people at Baltimore MTA and they took me on a tour of their maint. facility and the bus was there. This was a couple of years later, but it was still damaged. I can't remember the number, off hand, but it was either 8639 or something like that.
Sheeze...how badly was it damaged? What could not be fixed, and was/is it still in service? Also, isn't 8639 a 30-footer? If that's the case, that must have been some wild ride!
Incidentally, I do models of the Baltimore Flxibles and have plenty of Chevy Caprice police cars in HO scale should you ever want a diorama of the whole thing...:). If you are interested, let me know and I will also make a "1C BALLSTON" destination sign for your WMATA Flxible Metro model that I did for you earlier this year. Thanks!
-Fred
It was definitely a 40 footer. That guy was flying all over the place with it. The damage I saw seemed to be to the rear of the bus as I believe the engine cover flew off in the process of the chase. It was definitely more interesting than watching the election coverage. I had to reassure my coworkers that it wasn't me driving that thing!! LOL.
I'll definitely give that some thought about my bus you made for me. It looks great in my glass cabinet that I have set up for all my buses.
Actually, you were real close... The coach that he stole was #8739, a 40 Foot bus, and interestingly, one of a set of 10 CUMMINS L-10 Coaches which were purchased in 1987. I remember the coach returning to the property, and it did take some time for them to fix her - she was nearly totaled, but she spend's her time in much quieter duties, filling mostly trippers from my Bush Street base, as most of the Cummins do.
There are a handful of Cummins fans amdist us Operators, and I'm one of them. 8739 is actually one of the better ones of this set, running from 8731-8740. 8735 caught fire in 1996 and was not returned to service.
Thanks for the info! That must have been the Bush Division that I was at when I was taken on a tour. With my job, I'm friends with someone in MTA's accounting dept. and he was able to hook me up with a really cool tour since he knows of my love of buses. The people there were so nice to me and showed me their painting bay and all the buses in the garage, including 8739. They were so surprised that I remembered that bus was involved in that incident. I also saw the newer facility that is all indoors in Balt. County. I heard the drivers had all chipped in to by a big screen tv, which I thought was very cool.
A couple of years later, actually, Nov. 2000, I was able to arrange a field trip for all the analysts in my dept. to visit and the MTA arranged a van to pick us up with a really great driver. I think he was one of the supervisors. I wish I remembered his name, he was awesome. All of us chipped in and bought a thank you gift.
So what happeed to 8735 ultimately? Also, the L-10 is actually the modern ISL engine. That sounds sweet in our new Gilligs annd I'll bet it sounds nice in those Flxes too!
-F.
Really...glass cabinet? I've gotta see this...bet it looks SHARP in there! Yes indeed...let me know please.
-Fred
Yeah, its my shrine, or "bus museum" as I call it. I have about 30 buses in there. Its a big cabinet, kind of like what you'd put china or other things that you'd display. It has a light at the top, too, so I can brighten the whole thing up. Everyone that comes to my place is drawn to it. I get ridiculed about liking them so much, but then when they see the collection, they kind of clam up. The bus you did for me is in between a Matchbox McDonald's MCI and a CTA Flxible Metro. I need to move some things around in there, so I can make room for a Toronto GMC Fishbowl I purchased recently, but nothing will be leaving the cabinet. : )
LOL...yeah, people really get fascinated when they actually see the models. Bet that's a sweet setup; I've always wanted a cabinet like that! Maybe I'll have one someday..who knows. I'd love to see pics of how your WMATA looks in there!
-F.
I'll have to do that! I'll just have my friend scan them in for me. I should just buy one of those things myself, they aren't so expensive anymore.
Its funny to see people's reaction. They go from having a "whatever" attitude to actually liking them. When I was a kid, I could never find transit buses, always school buses, but then I hit pay dirt about 5 years ago and I've been going strong ever since. Thanks to you, I finally have a WMATA Flxible!
You bet. Always a pleasure to help a collector! :) Actually, 5 years ago is when I discovered those models as well..and what did I do with the first ones I bought? Tore them down and CUSTOMIZED them, of course! If I knew they would get rare one day I would have bought them all. Oh well...I still have a small handful to last me for now. Let me know if you wat to add a Baltimore to your "fleet"!
-F.
Either that or he was an idiot. As if TRANSITS aren't hard enough to maneuver in a high-speed chase!
-F.
I've ridden the 92/9300 former express RTS on several UP routes recently. Those narrow aisles left by the jumbo padded seats have led to extreme congestion and several loud arguments, especially on the B1, which connects several busy shopping areas and is heavily used by the many local senior citizens.
On Saturday I waited for a Bay Ridge-bound one at Brighton & Ocean Parkway. It was already late, or the previous one (10-minute headway) didn't show, so was packed, with people standing all the way back. I saw another bus a couple of blocks down, so let the first one go. The next was also an express convert, but not as crowded.
Of course, the standees were all clustered in the front. The driver and boarding passengers were begging the standees to move further back, but they wouldn't. People were trying to get out of their seats to get off, but were blocked in by standees. No one would, or could, get out of anyone else's way. Two teenage girls were sitting in the aisle seat with their packages on the window seat! They became abusive when asked to move their packages so someone could sit down and clear the aisle. It took almost five minutes to pull out.
Things got REALLY ugly when we got to Coney Island Hospital, where there was huge turnover. Someone vacated a seat next to where I was standing, so I sat down in order to clear the aisle. An older (seated) woman yelled at me for sitting while older women were standing, so I got up. Another older woman (seated) yelled at me for blocking the aisle so no one could get by. I asked both of them just what WOULD please them. Another older woman (seated) answered, "Walk or buy a car!" Other older men and women murmered in agreement. After Bay Parkway, and other skirmishes along Avenue X and 86th Street, we pretty much emptied out, and the ride was peaceful till 4th Avenue. The ten-minute headway must have telescoped, because despite long dwell time at stops (and abundant triple-parkers along 86th), only one other bus, a 7500-series, passed us. We never caught it.
The driver and I chatted about what a nuisance these seats are, and how all the Ulmer drivers wish for conversion to hard local seating. He said that all local routes get very crowded, either for subway feeder service (especially the 3, 36, 64 and 74), weekend shopping (especially the 1, 3 and 6), or both. Moreover, all Ulmer routes serve large senior populations and are heavily used by same.
No fistfights had yet occurred on his watch, but he said loud arguments, threats and ethnic slurs have sprung out of space conflicts in the aisle- AND when someone reclines their seat into the lap of the person behind them. Wait till cold weather, and bulky winter coats, settle in full time!
Problem is, express bus habits are a lot different than local. People board in the early parts of the run and disembark in the late parts. There's no on-and-off turnover like on local routes. The passengers on an express route tend to ride the same bus regularly and may come from the same neighborhood and get to know each other.
I'm staying off these express converts on weekends till after the holidays.
I agree Howard, I've been on the B64 and it is a heavily populated senior bus route. However, I was on buses 9078 and then 9102.This was back in August 1999 (9102) and June 2000 (9078). It must have been rough getting jumped on by the seniors. I would say, "@#$%^&*" to them. Yeah, it's harsh BUT you should not let them talk to you like that! Nice story though. I hope they can convert them soon.
Ray
Sounds like an understandable response when so many people give you grief in one day.
How funny you mention 9102; that is the number of the Valley Metro Gillig that I just rode home on. The seats were so comfy in it and the 6v92 ran so smoothly that I fell asleep! Was your 9102 an RTS?
-F.
Fred,
Yes, 9102 is a '96 Nova RTS w/DD Series 50 engine.
Wayne
I see...just wanted to make sure. I know the Flxible New Look 9000s also bore those numbers at one time. I assume the 96 RTSes replaced those? How does numbering work on NYC buses when a fleet retires? Also, how do the Series 50s sound on an RTS? Presumably better than they do in our 94 Gilligs, I'm sure!
-F.
That's terribly impractical...sounds like they need to be converted to all side-facers, a la the Flx New Look 73xxs. Just be glad the Express units aren't 96-inchers...heads would REALLY roll then!
-F.
I empathize with you totally. Until the D60s came, we in the East Bronx (particularly on the Bx12 and Bx22) had to make do with 8000s, 8800s, 9200s, 9400s, and 5075-5124 (now getting a good workout at Flatbush).
When the first D60s came (1001-1069), they all did service on the 12 (dedicated) and 40/42 (sometimes). That left the 22 with the RTS, and let me tell you something, things were getting progressivly worse by the month. When winter came around, it was a nightmare; first a typical B/O on the 22 would have to deal with the crowd coming from Castle Hill getting to the #6 subway (a weekday ordeal oftentimes; many buses were short-turned at Westchester Av. solely for this reason). Then he had to deal with the crowds building up inside Parkchester, which were mostly Columbus High School kids (some of Roosevelt's too) on weekdays, and shoppers going to Fordham Ctr. (our answer to King's Plaza) on weekends. Things get worse the closer we get to Pelham Parkway, until finally there is a human crush on Fordham Road itself; no relief until Fordham Plaza or, in some cases, Valentine Av. itself (the last stop).
Forget about the return trip; passengers getting off the D subway frequently miss buses due to the long walk from 188th street, and unless you're one of the first ones on the bus at Valentine, forget about a seat until after Parkchester. And if you're trying to get on at Fordham Plaza or other intermediate points, be ready to be left standing as you watch the next 22 go limited to the Zoo due to lack of space (not to mention waiting for another 20 minutes just to get ON a bus).
Of course people crowded up front, making matters worse. Buses I was on didn't usually have incidents, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were legends of men and women getting thrown off buses barroom style. This was the case until the D60s (5250-5399) were delivered, and the 5000 series RTS were sent to greener pastures in Brooklyn.
I'm pretty sure there are similar dramas being played out on other major bus routes in the city. Bay Ridge's lines are the perfect example (with the T80206 express being the cannon fodder this time).
"I empathize with you totally. Until the D60s came, we in the East Bronx (particularly on the Bx12 and Bx22) had to make do with 8000s, 8800s, 9200s, 9400s, and 5075-5124 (now getting a good workout at Flatbush)."
But aren't those all RTS models with the traditional local plastic single-on-the-right/double-on-the-left seating? Clearly such buses are inadequate for the heavily crowded Bronx routes that now run Artics. But imagine the carnage if formerly express RTS were used! It's bad enough in southwest Brooklyn, with the possible exception of the B4 which seems to run empty on weekends between Bay Ridge and Bensonhurst.
Stengel also uses express Orions on local routes, but seems to restrict them to 'less crowded' routes. I've seen them on every Stengel route except the 20s, 27 and 44; putting express coaches on those would be suicidal! Problem is, virutally EVERY Stengel route is crowded in directional peak, i.e. to the subway AM; from PM. I often get a 100-series on the Q14 coming home, and there have been similar conditions to the B1 chaos experienced this past Saturday.
The structure of most Stengel, and Queens TA routes, is that they originate in a residential area and terminate at a subway station, resulting in less turnover. Converted expresses might work okay in times of lighter ridership, i.e. middays and evenings- but peak weekday and midday weekends (heavy shopping volume combined with long headways) just doesn't cut it. I have enjoyed peaceful, hassle-free rides on expresses on the Q13 and 16 during early evenings.
Problem is, many routes in other boroughs, such as those that run out of Ulmer, not only feed into subways but serve multiple popular shopping areas, so you've always got passengers coming and going. The B1 does Brighton Beach and 86th/Bensonhurst, as well as Coney Hospital. The 3 runs along Avenue U, which is lined with stores for several miles AND is served by three separate subway lines, not to mention Kings Plaza. The 64 and 74 also get extremely crowded since they connect subways with isolated areas of Bath Beach and Coney Island respectively. It's good that, as someone else posted, the 6 doesn't seem to use the expresses, as it serves the 86th Street, Bay Parkway, Avenue J and Junction commercial corridors, Brooklyn College and SIX separate subway lines.
If new buses or more service is not possible, then wide aisles are a necessity. Ironically, federal regulations prohibit standees on Greyhound and other long-distance carriers, all of which have the same seating format as the 92/9300s.
"If new buses or more service is not possible, then wide aisles are a necessity. Ironically, federal regulations prohibit standees on
Greyhound and other long-distance carriers, all of which have the same seating format as the 92/9300s."
Since when has NYCT been known to honor federal regulations to the best of its ability? The very fact that they are using express buses on local routes which get heavy ridership, forcing people to stand on a bus that they are not supposed to stand on, is a testimony to how NYCT has had to cut corners (for whatever reason) just to provide basic service to its customers.
"Since when has NYCT been known to honor federal regulations to the best of its ability?"
WHOA!!!!!!
Federal regulations that apply to long-distance carriers do not apply to NYC Transit. This includes, but is not limited to, rules about standees on over-the-road coaches.
David
As has been posted here before, NJ Transit Cruisers regularly have standees. I believe the standee capacity is shown on the bus exterior near the front door. Of course, if there are too many standees and passengers in the rear have to get off, it is a real pain in the neck.
i once heard a rumor that a MCI ONCE was on the B64-was this true?
You state that:
"the B4 which seems to run empty on weekends between Bay Ridge and Bensonhurst."
I find the opposite is true, the B-4 is light between Sheepshead Bay and Bensonhurst, and is heaviest between Bay Ridge and Bensonhurst, even on weekends. I used to ride that line regularly in the early 90's when I lived in Sheepshead Bay. Unless things have changed dramatically since then.
If only the world were perfect. We could solve this in two ways:
1) Buy a mass group of Orion Vs and Articulateds to handle the volume, which we have little money for.
2) Tell people to wait for the next bus so the bus doesn't become overburdened, screwing large amounts of people over in all five boroughs.
Yes, the suburban coaches are not designed for every route, but since the MTA is yanking buses out of storage to meet service demand, it is moving towards a situation where we either take a suburban coach or a good pair of walking shoes.
By the way, those same federal regulations apply to MTA express buses operating through NJ, but they BREAK THE LAW all the time. I don't know if I want to tell the drivers not to pick those people up, however. Until private carriers step up and/or the MTA obtains more resources, we need to be banging down every political figure's doors within reach.
"By the way, those same federal regulations apply to MTA express buses operating through NJ, but they BREAK THE LAW all the time. I don't know if I want to tell the drivers not to pick those people up, however. Until private carriers step up and/or the MTA obtains more resources, we need to be banging down every political figure's doors within reach."
Nope...again: federal rules regarding standees on over-the-road coaches do not apply to NYC Transit.
David
Yep...that's kinda like asking if a side-ramming in a demolition derby is against NASCAR regulations. Whole different ballgame there!
-F.
>>> Nope...again: federal rules regarding standees on over-the-road coaches do not apply to NYC Transit. <<<
I find it hard to believe that a law regulating interstate buses would not apply to NYC Transit with regards to buses operated to New Jersey, i.e. as interstate buses. It is not the style of the coach which triggers the law, but where it is operated. I am not familiar with the federal regulations regarding standees, but the prohibition may have exceptions for "short" runs as measured by some maximum time or distance.
Tom
And yet, the good ol B6 stays with the high 4700's from AMS and the 9000-9100's. I havent seen an xpress bus on the B6 in a couple of months now.....
you never will. from what i have been told by a driver on the B64 route, it was told NEVER to put a 9300 or the 9200 express series due becasue of the neighborhood in goes through in East New York.
You know, I was thinking along those lines, but did not want to go there. I did not want to start any flame wars.......
It may not be necessarily the neighborhood a bus operates in, but the fact that the B6 is a very long route, going from outer Bensonhurst to East New York by way of Flatbush, that's keeping the express converts off it. Any driver would quickly get an ulcer having to remind standees to move all the way to the rear for such a long trip.
The route is too crowded too.
Yes, it is one of the four longest routes in Bklyn.(The B8, B44, and B82 are the others.) It is very crowded for most of its route. The B6 was my high school bus before I switch to taking the subway. The amount of schools it serves as well is probably another reason for the xpress buses not over there.....
The two Flxible picture I have from Charlotte Transit are up on the Transit Talk Community pageover at MSN. Both picks are in the old green stripe scheme so enjoy!!
Ooh...very nice; thanks for posting them. How do I get there?
-F.
If you go to the Transit Talk web site (transittalk.com or transitalk.com) head towards the image showroom icon and on that page right above the bus photo of the month is the link to the msn transit talk community page and you can find in the CATs Man photo album
Cool deal; thanks!
-F.
I went to JCSU for a year and a half. That 7 bus along Beatties Ford Rd came very frequently. I know when it got to Uptown(later the Transit Center), it would turn into the 27 or 28 buses. I also rode the 1,8,9,19,20,and the 39 to UNCC. I love their Flxs. I need to go back Charlotte to visit.
I went to Smith the first year I moved to Charlotte in 2000. The 7 still runs frequently along Beatties Ford and now just turns into the 28 on selected trips. I have no clue what that's about but I have a feeling that will change. By the way Smith was a complete waste of my money.
Hey!!! I did say I was there for a year and a half. I transferred to USC. When I left, the Panthers just moved into their new stadium just down the street and the Transit Center just opened up for business. I remember the Flxibles, the old blue artics, and a bus (I think NABI, im not sure) a square looking bus(not an Orion.) This was 1995-1996.
I think the square bus you are reffering to are the old MAN buses and they are still in service. I only went there for a year and it just wasn't worth it.
Notice I said that one of the buses I rode down there was the 39 to UNCC. I had to go there sometimes to get information for my classes.
When issuing transfers, do drivers have to worry about the number of transfers in the farebox? What do they do with the collected transfers, recycle them by putting them back in? How many transfers do the farebox hold?
When a transfer is inserted, it goes into a box which can be removed. The used xfers I guess are either thrown out or something else.
As for unused xfers being stored, they come in the form of a roll. I don't know how many are in the roll.
1) Used Transfers are put in the trash. They get voided by the FB.
2) The FB can hold two roll of transfers of 500 each. When the FB uses one up durring the day it displayes to the driver the ether the top or bottom roll is out. I have had onec or twice were both roll were out, at this point I had to let everyone ride for free. Yes even one with Metrocards. This happen when the Shiffter of the Depots don't read the top of the FB when they are vacting out the money during the day or if one roll fall out of the feeder in the FB.
Robert
Ten years is JUST TOO LONG. I for one think it's about time.
NJT Fare Increase Proposed
An additional link of information
NJT Press Release
As many of you may know, frontier is set to go on strike tomorrow. However, don't worry, because most of the routes will still be in service, although some of it is modified. Now, i'm happy about this, considering the fact that the two frontier routes I use are still operating, although one of them won't really serve my neighborhood anymore. However, here is the unfair part(s).
1)For one thing, Frontier and the City are the same union, i believe. When the city strikes, frontier strikes. Now frontier is striking, but the city isn't? (I know, they aren't having a problem with the new contract)
2) When the city is on strike, no transit routes, not even the victory operated suburban routes, are allowed to run in the city of Philadelphia AT ALL. That meant routes like the 105 and 106 had to be detoured. However (I'm personally happy about this), they are still substituting service on 12 out of the 21 bus routes!
I guess I wasn't really wrong a few monthes ago before I moved into the Frontier district (I think differently now) when asking the question, "Who cares about the little Frontier district? It's just this little district up north somewhere." Obviously, SEPTA doesn't, and since they really don't, I'm left to wonder just how long this strike will last.
Obviously, this is no longer relevant, since an agreement was reached at around 6:00pm tonight.
As many of you may know, frontier is set to go on strike tomorrow. However, don't worry, because most of the routes will still
be in service, although some of it is modified. Now, i'm happy about this, considering the fact that the two frontier routes I use
are still operating, although one of them won't really serve my neighborhood anymore. However, here is the unfair part(s).
You would have better off than I would've been, since the 92 would not have been operating. And there's no way in hell I would take Krapf's (even though their fares are cheaper) because their service sucks.
1)For one thing, Frontier and the City are the same union, i believe. When the city strikes, frontier strikes. Now frontier is
striking, but the city isn't? (I know, they aren't having a problem with the new contract)
Not neccesarily. The City contract expires March 15; Red Arrow contracts (both TWU 234 and UTU 1594) expire April 1; Frontier expires April 8. (These are all in the same year of a three year cycle; next time this threat would occur would be 2004.) In 1995, the City went out on strike first, then Red Arrow drivers were locked out because mechanics went out on strike (operators are represented by UTU 1594; mechanics and support staff are represented by TWU 234), and Frontier followed suit a few days after the Red Arrow lockout.
2) When the city is on strike, no transit routes, not even the victory operated suburban routes, are allowed to run in the city of
Philadelphia AT ALL. That meant routes like the 105 and 106 had to be detoured. However (I'm personally happy about this), they are still substituting service on 12 out of the 21 bus routes!
Primarily, that's done to avoid serious problems between City and Red Arrow or Frontier operators. During the 1998 strike, the 108 also had to be detoured from Yeadon to the city line on Hook Road in Darby Twp via MacDade Blvd as a closed door express. At the city line (where Hook Rd becomes 84 St), the operators turned the bus over to supervisors.
I guess I wasn't really wrong a few monthes ago before I moved into the Frontier district (I think differently now) when asking the question, "Who cares about the little Frontier district? It's just this little district up north somewhere." Obviously, SEPTA doesn't, and since they really don't, I'm left to wonder just how long this strike will last.
SEPTA has always treated Frontier like the rotten stepchild that nobody talks about. Whether it's the pay scale for its operators or the equipment (usually junkers from the city) sent there, Frontier has always been treated with second class status. As noted earlier, there is going to be no strike, pending ratification by the TWU rank and file at Frontier.
I like the UTU better than the TWU. I mean, the UTU never strikes, yet the TWU basically threatens to strike every 3 years. That's why I like Red Arrow so much. It's very dependable (except the 105).
UTU has taken strike authorization votes in the past few years, but the UTU leadership takes a much lower profile when it comes to contract talks than TWU.
Speaking of dependable, today's 11:30am 113 to Marcus Hook left 69 St Terminal about 25 minutes late. At first, I thought the driver was leaving about 5 minutes early. I didn't stick around to see if there was a 12:00pm to the Hook, but it probably did run.
Hi
Does anyone know of a group that follows Transit in the Carolinas and Virginia--Bus Operations
Thank you
Steve
NYC FD
I DO!!! I have TONS of information and photos of Virginia TAs, including Valley Metro (Roanoke) and Blacksburg Transit at Virginia Tech. E-mail me for more details or post a message here and I will be glad to help. Also, a new member (I think it's "CATS Fan"?) is affluent in Charlotte's transit system and buses. Another interested party would be Bev Fitzpatrick, our museum president; his contact info is listed at the site below. If there isn't a group already, we'll make one! Hope to hear from you soon.
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
thank you
You bet; keep in touch and let's get this thing going!
-F.
Hey you two are getting ahead of me. i guess I need to take somemore pics in the Charlotte area when I get back from Dallas
Absolutely. I say the group is a great idea; let's do this! Have a great trip and shoot some DART Flxes for me.
-F.
I will but unfortunatly all of DART's Flxibles were retired and I believe sold a few years back. I just hope they haven't sold them all yet.
What?!? Even the 1990 models? What do they run now...RTSes?
-F.
When I moved from Dallas in 2000 they were in the process of recieving the first of I think 488 new NOVA RTS's that to this day I haven't seen anywhere else except Cleveland. They were putting their Neoplan AN460's out to pasture, phasing out the AN440's, and there were no Flxibles on the road. Since I'm going to Dallas in about 6 days I'll find out all that I can.
Please do; thanks!
-Fred
This page have photos of SEPTA D40LF's. go to http://photos.yahoo.com/derekinn1996 and go to SEPTA New Flyer D40LF's.
According to news reports, SEPTA and its Frontier District operators and mechanics reached a tentative agreement. The union members will vote on the contract tommorrow. Let's hope that this contract will pass, and service will continue on the Frontier routes.
I saw an ad for The Royal Tenenbaums this morning, showing Gwyneth Paltrow standing in front of two green and white Fishbowls. Maybe the movie won't be as bad as I expected :).
It looks like an RTS is used to run over someone in the ads I've seen for this movie. The bus looked to have blue strips, a black bumper and silver rims, but it flew by so quickly, I couldn't make it all out.
I saw that ad myself. While the colors remind me of Foothill Transit in suburban LA, I don't think that was the paint scheme in question. And yes, it is an RTS.
I was thinking it looked like a Foothill Transit bus, too. I've seen that similar color scheme on Fishbowls used in other movies. The only one offhand I can think of is "Moving Violations".
HOT DAMN! Gotta see it now!
-F.
OOOHHH...GOTTA SEE THIS! Gwyneth and buses...DOUBLE SCORE!!!
-F.
I noticed that too.
Those are ex-GO Transit suburban fishbowls (retired two years ago)
A colleague of mine at 126th Street Depot recently returned after spending 4 years or so working at the Nova Bus plant in Roswell, New Mexico. I encountered him the other day and we began discussing the fate of the RTS. He is still in contact with some of his former co-workers at Roswell and they passed along this interesting little tidbit. According to these individuals, General Motors is expressing interest in returning to manufacture the RTS. Personally I find this hard to believe. Why would GM want to reenter the transit bus manufacturing business which is marginally profitable at best? If they do decide to do this how would they go about it? Do they still hold the patent on the RTS or was that sold to TMC when they began producing the bus? Is the old Pontiac, Michigan Bus and Truck assembly plant still in existence or was it torn down when production ceased?
This is probably all a pipe dream but if it comes to fruition I would hope that one of the first things GM would do would be to redesign the driver's compartment. If that's not economically feasible then just produce the RTS 08 WFD which has the best driver's compartment of the RTS family. Yes I know the WFD is uglier than a pig's ass but the front door mounted wheelchair lift of the WFD would make perfect sense especially for NYCT DOB since you can't properly pull in to most bus stops in NYC anyway.
AGREED! NOW SOMEONE (MCI) NEEDS TO DO THE SAME WITH THE FLXIBLE METRO!
What a christmas list!
Regards,
Trevor
Did MCI ever build transit buses before though other than the classic?
TMC built the 30-foor Orion I under license as the TMC T-30 Citycruiser in the late 70s and early 80s.
Not that I know of!
-F.
Wow, that would be a very nice gift to receive. If GMC were to make buses again, too bad they just couldn't go all the way back and make an updated Fishbowl.
The Classic is just that, an updated Fishbowl. When GM-Canada introduced it, its full name was "GM New Look Classic". In fact, almost all of the body panels below the windows are interchangeable with the 530x models.
The only further changes that could be made ot the Classic would be adding smoothside unriveted body paneling, but the mechanicals are up to date - the last Classics were using Cummins C8.3s and Detroit 50s with T-drive Allison or V-drive ZF transmissions. The lightweight New Look body precludes them from needing engines stronger than that. An ISL in a Classic would be a speed-demon that most TAs would shy away from unless they needed expressway service suburbans.
Well, yeah...but that would be so COOL! HEMI BUS...LOL!!!
-F.
As soon as I hit post, I started thinking that the Classic was indeed the new Fishbowl. I wish we had some Classics in the DC area. The only one that I know operates them in PRTC in VA, but they are just commuter runs. Seeing one in WMATA colors would be very nice!
Really? Classics are here in Virginia? I've gotta see this! Get pics if you can. Thanks!
-Fred
Yeah, at least a few months ago I saw a couple of PRTC Classics. I'll definitely have to get a camera and track them down. The ones I saw were leaving the Vienna Metro and heading West on I-66 towards Manassas. I took a double take when I saw them.
I believe Trevor had some pictures on his website at one time after a trip he and another gentleman took to the Pentagon.
I've gotta see this!
-F.
Now THAT would be sweet!
-F.
I wholeheartedly agree. If they could build an updated version of the fishbowl (that more closely resembles the original than the Classic did), they'd really have something there. Unfortunately, most times when car designers go for a retro look, the result is an abomination at best. The New Beetle is the perfect example. It's only a mere shadow of its former self. The engine is in the front, it's water cooled, and worst of all it's front-wheel drive! Chances are, were they to reintroduce the fishbowl, it would have a DD series 50 engine in it. I still haven't gotten used to their choppy sound.
Yeah, it would be pretty cool to see just one "new" Fishbowl, but like you said it would never be the same. First, they'd have digital destination signs, although I guess an Orange Balios sign could look good on it. The Classic is a pretty nice looking bus, too.
Those VW Beetles look like they need a key to wind them up or need a remote control to operate! What's the deal with the flower vase on the dash, too? LOL
The flower vase is kind of a retro-hippie thing..."Flower Power" and all. And a conversation piece as well!
I think a new Fishbowl would be great...basically all you need to do is take the New Flyer Invero, put some REAL transit wheels on it, slant the side windows, maybe add an A/C unit to the rear, and BAM...instant neoclassic!
-F.
I agree; the Series 50 sounds WAY too choppy for such a bus. Actually, the New Beetle is basically a Golf with a retro-styled body over it. Neat car, but it totally misses the mark of the original in intent and soul. A New Fishbowl would be interesting...put slanted windows on the sides of the New Flyer Invero, get rid of those stupid roller skate wheels, and you've got it. That would be a cool bus!
-F.
If you think the beetle was terrible, the new VW bus is worse. When things get too retro too soon, they look awful.
Amen. That new VW Microbus makes me want to BARF! It is HORRIBLE. I just hope transit buses never look that bad. Ugh.
-F.
DAMN RIGHT! Hop to it, elves...CHOP CHOP!!!
-F.
GM's advantage would be, having the R&D resources to make worthwhile improvements. Look at the RTS artic that was never produced. The RTX and Transbus prototypes were intended as low-floor. They could put together an RTS low floor in short order that would maintain masximum interchangeability with the existing RTS, giving RTS strongholds like NYC, Boston, and now NJT a progressive model to move to. GM's Allison division is also producing a hybrid powertrain, which could make the RTS the leader in hybrid bus production.
It would also be nice to hear the name "GMC Truck and Coach" again.
That WOULD be a nice surprise for the holidays.
It sure would! Wow...the RTX was a LF? Didn't know that!
-F.
It wasn't a low floor as we know them today. Remember, there was no such thing as ADA in 1967. The RTX was what we would refer to today as a "one step". Now, we consider a low floor a "no-step".
Regardless, GM has the resources to get it done. The GMC RTS 05 and 07 models were the experimental units with T-drive that is now a factory configuration at Nova. If they really wanted to, GM could easily develop the RTS-III, the 09 series, with the best of the 01-06, the 08, and with a low floor. The biggest problem will be return on investment. Can GM make a bus that would corner the market the way the Old Look, the New Look, and the RTS did when they were introduced, and make enough money to get that return. This new RTS would have to be ahead in quality AND price of New Flyer, Neoplan, NABI, and Nova (LFS) in order to get sufficient demand to justify the investment.
If I remember right the RTX was a 3 axle job with very small wheels and a rear window. A nice vehicle.
jrc
Yeah, the RTX was neat for sure. Never knew it had a back window though. It reminds me of a cross between the production RTS and the bus from The Beatles' "Magical Mystery Tour" movie. And the name sounds like a late Sixties musclecar. Very neat indeed!
-F.
Whew...sounds like a tall order, but if GM's bold transit history is recalled by major TAs, they just might pull it off. I hope so.
-F.
It may be the right time for GM to get back to the bus maufacturing industry. The industry is ripe for consolidation and it seems a few manufacturers are struggling.
Apart from NABI and Gillig, the rest seem to be in some kind of trouble. GM re-entering the market may be the blow that may put them out for good.
It seems to me that some agencies are desperately looking for tough quality bus to adopt and commit to. Differrent cities are trying different makes to sort out who fits their needs the most. LA at one time was buying Neoplan, NABI, and New Flyer.
Miami is committed and satisfied with NABI. And NABI does make a very good and much improved bus from the shameful Ikarus design they inherited. Today's NABI is a very well designed and comfortable bus. But it is in now way in the same league as the GMC RTS were.
-Joe
Joe. great points; actually, I can see that as the "smart" TAs which were once exclusively Flxible are now going with NABIs. (Ex:Baltimore MTA, Miami-Dade) Also, many former Flx employees were hired there shortly after Flxible shut down. so it makes good sense. Yes, it is time for GM to come back to transit with their original RTS design.
-F.
send NABI to the private lines. Noone has said why NABI isnt running in new york?
GM would be contradicting themselves if they were to get back into the transit bus business after a 16-year hiatus. I say contradicting because they are in the process of jettisoning Oldsmobile for good and killing some cars that have been staples of the auto market for decades (such as the Cavalier). At a time when they are spending millions in a patriotic ad blitz aimed at getting people to open up their wallets and buy 2002 model year vehicles, I don't think GM would want to risk restarting transit bus production and possibly put one of its marginally-profitable divisions at risk of going belly up.
I think GM would take a chance, they could do so much for the RTS, major improvements and such.
NovaBUS really didn't want to do much with the RTS. So they really left it as it was handed to them from TMC.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Instant Message: Metro D 3700
Yeah...with the exception of that UGLY ASS front end on the WFD.
-F.
True on business sense. And isn't it ironic they are killing off Oldsmobile and the Cavalier when the sales are seemingly UP? Weird.
-F.
Well if GM does make a return, the best I can hope for is that we have serious trade agreements with China. Since they have license to build the Flx Metro, which they do, let THEM build the Flx Metro and ship them to us. Or they should open a plant in the U.S. where we could build THEIR Metro under license.
joe c
Hell yeah! That's a GREAT idea...bastardized or not, the Flx Metro would be a GREAT addition to new transit buses once again. Maybe MCI and China can get together over some General Tso's and talk it out. I'd LOVE to see those back in DC!
-F.
I'm still waiting to get my head around the idea of GM resuming RTS production; I will get back to y'all on that.
Regarding the plant which produced the GM RTS and the venerable Old Looks and New Looks, that plant continues production today. It's on Opdyke Road in Pontiac, about eight miles from my house!
Nice; what is built there now? Cars? Trucks?
-F.
Bus #996 is now residing at Casey Stengel!
WOOHOO!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
So will 997 and 998 join them and are they permanent?
ahh, the Vikings. The only bus in the fleet that SMILES at you! :-)
How so? Explain...
-F.
Look at the "nose" on the bus, It's got a retainer or something that is shaped resembling a cute little smile.
Take a good look at the front of this bus, and see if you can't help but to see the smile the bus is wearing. Once you notice it, you'll never ever ignore it!
If someone can post a shot of a Viking, I'd be glad to illustrate!~
Please do post a photo; I've gotta see this!
-F.
its smilng thinking how stupid it was of nyct to buy a bus that cant fit in its depots and most tunnels.LOL.
What do the Vikings sound like? I assume the DD50 engines as usual?
Ray
Bring on the viKINGs to QUEENs!
OK, so it's late and I had a long day, but this news makes me smile!
Question is will it ever be in X51 Service?
#996 X51
With the current plans to bring MCIs to the Queens Division, the likelihood that the Cruisers (Be it MCI or New Flyer) seeing X51 service is greater than before.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitlak.com
Instant Messenger: Metro D 3700
ALRIGHT! What a great-looking bus.
Hard to believe it's a New Flyer!
-F.
So, I guess the MTA has changed it's mind about the Vikings! Does that mean that will order more? To me, they are ugly looking....Houston has like 50 of them!
Ray
The Vikings are off the hook! I love these things!
I get this feeling that alot of people are just not ready for the new era in bus looks. Everyone is kinda stuck on the older designs. I feel VERY alone in this subject because sometimes I feel I'm the only one who really welcomes a new bus design with open arms.
My Question to everyone is, WHY?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I think its like anything new, it just takes time to get used to things, especially since most of us grew up with the older buses. They were on the road for so long and became a symbol of the American Transit system, so it was one of those sacred things.
I'm definitely open to new styles and innovations as long as they don't compromise safety and reliability.
It not that I find the Vikings ugly in terms of the engines and stuff but you are right...it's the design! I mean take a look at the Orion VII....you said and most of us agree that they are ugly. I tried to picture the Vikings in a different way and I just can not find that magic. Hell, it took me a year to jump on the SEPTA bandwagon. It took me two years to accept the Neoplan buses (nationwide) which by the way, Pittsburgh Transit has Neoplan suburban and Neoplan Low Floor. I wish the MTA would get those buses BUT I know they are not but it would be a nice Christmas wish.
Ray
Ray, are the Flxible Metros still alive and well in Pittsburgh? I wish SEPTA would have gotten some of those in real life. The Road Champs SEPTA models make ME want to wish for Christmas...sigh. :(
-F.
Actually - I do like the Vikings. However, I'm not too fond of MCI's newest designs.
Wayne
My issue with the D45S is both design and experience. Up til now, TAs that wanted over-the-road coaches got MCIs and Eagles. Buses with the experience of production behind them. Buses with the heritage of Greyhound and Trailways daily service. And while Eagles were stupidly stuck i9n their design, MCI has indeed modernized the appearance of their mainline offerings. A D4000 certainly doesn't resemble an MC-8.
Conversely, Flyer has not made an intercity coach since the 70s. These new coaches have windows with visible latches, and apparently not all of them open as emergency exits. ALL MCI windows open for escape - they are completely interchangeable. The New Flyer tried too hard to match what MCI offered instead of breaking new ground. Just as they took the plunge with a mass-market low floor, why didn't New Flyer design a front door lift, instead of using the less-efficient window cut method that requires the driver to physically leave the vehicle? Drivers would LOVE that. The rear of these things look like, "ooops, we forgot to draw up the back... just cut an engine door and scatter some lights on it."
In effect, had the D45S been more innovative, I might appreciate it more. But it's just a "me too" effort instead of anything groundbreaking. Neoplan's Metroliner fails for the same reason.
Really? Flyer made intercity coaches through the 70s? Do you have pics? I've gotta see there!
-F.
The Canuck line of Flyer intercity coaches was a big seller in Canada. I have a few Bob Redden shots somewhere, I'll see if I can dig them up.
Please do; thanks!
-Fred
You aren't alone in your appreciation of newer designs. I for one look forward to the day that the New Flyer Invero is commonplace. You have to remember that when the Fishbowls made their debut in 1959, they had to have been equally as shocking. Fast Forward to the mid 70's and with it the RTS with the same reactions. Now those two are what we think of when we hear "bus".
I think you're right; we have to move forward in what we think of in terms of design. That's why I'm hoping the Viking is given the chance to reign supreme. We need to break away from the convention of the MCI D's (an opinion I'm sure I'll catch a lot of heat on).
Exactly. The Viking is fresh and sleek in design; IMO, it looks newer than the D-series. I wonder what MCI will replace them wit one day? Who knows...it will surely be interesting!
-F.
I like new designs as long as they are sleek or interesting. Example: New Flyer Invero and Viking, MCI Renaissance, Thomas SLF. However, some older designs still look new to me: (i.e. the RTS and Flx Metro).
It's all in what your eyes like!
-F.
You're not alone Trevor. I love seeing new and different designs. Remember, I drive that condom on wheels (The RTS) every day so anything different would be welcome.
Do ya ever burn rubber? Hope you can "keep up" with traffic...LOL!!!
-F.
Actually, we have 104 of them; 4700-4803. I've only ridden them once, but I lied it. Very fast.
I had a job on the 7 train today. I park at Corona Yard/CS depot. I saw 996 and another surprise, RTS #4448. I thought someone said that this bus was supposed to scrapped. RTS#2679 is still at CP storage yard.
I was talking to a driver on the X1 route and asked him when downtown buses are to return to broadway. He said he did not know. But, if Broadway IS open between Canal street to Bowling Green, doesnt it make sense to return at least SOME of the express route back to Broadway instead of them going through Houston Street? I understand it northbound via WAter, but what about Broadway?
I heard that Green Bus Lines is due more Orion V to replace the RTS buses they have. Is this order delayed becasue of 9/11 or is it not happening? And if it is, what will be the numbers of this model?
Green Bus Lines cannot order buses. They are under contract by the NYCDOT to run bus service in areas of Queens and Brooklyn that the MTA cannot or will not serve. Thus, the buses GBL gets are from orders put in by the NYCDOT themselves, who then assigns them to the different private bus lines. That's the reason why if you look at the fleets in private bus colors, you will see the #s run up consecutivly, the lowest being Queens Surface (RTS) and the highest being GBL (Orion Vs)
NYCDOT ordered 102 Orion 05.501 CNGs. Originally these were slated for Triboro use, but came to the realization that Triboro's current facility can not handle any more CNG buses.
NYCDOT decided to turn the order over to Green Lines, HOWEVER Green Lines is NOT ready for CNG. So until Triboro gets a new facility or Green Lines gets thier CNG Modifications, No Orion 05.501 CNGs.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Instant Message: Metro D 3700
The key point here is that Green didn't have a CNG facility, but nycDOT is building one for them. I don't know what was resolved between the Cooper group & the City to make this happen, but would be interested in knowing the details ... you can email me privately if you prefer.
Mr rt__:^)
wouldnt this make better sense? order more cng Orion V and send them to Queens Surface, sending the remaider of the RTS buses to Green lines.
NO NO NO NO NO!!!! I HATE THE RTS's I take em EVERYDAY ON THE Q35 (well, inthe AM, i get aneof the 1100s), but I cant stand em! I want quality busses, hopefully younger than me!(im 15)
The other "privates" (and their customers) have waited long enough to get some new equipment. Once Green has a working CNG facility they should get their share of the new order. The RTS has provided loyal service but won't last for ever.
Mr rt__:^)
Looks like QSC is having problems with its destination signs because I saw 4 buses in the past 2 days with broken signs: 466 and 506 said nothing at all. Also 466's tailpipe looks like it got crushed.
526 and 528 were running along the Express Routes on Queens Blvd today with Not In Service Signs on them with passengers aboard. Perhaps QSC may soon be going to the Balios signs that's similar to the ones that GBL have now?
#466 Q104
#506 QM1A
#526 QM1
#528 QM4
Thanks for the input, I'll pass it along.
The drivers of these buses may not have written up the defect, or they may be on a "to do" list somewhere. I'm not aware of a mechanical reason for what you've seen. We have cut back a little on the OT, but I don't think it's had much impact on the condition of the fleet either.
Disclaimer: I'm not a official spokesperson of MTA, nycDOT or my employeer, who is a private company that operates buses.
Mr rt__:^)
I spotted '84 GM RTS 3669 at Marcy Ave/Broadway on the B40 last week.
It is from ENY. Does anybody know why 3669 still exist?
There is a few 3600s still rolling around the city! Along with a few 3400s, about 4 3500s, some 3800s, some 3900s. Those GMCs just keep going and going and going!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Instant Message: Metro D 3700
1826 was spotted on Monday running on the M30 at 57th St/8th Ave.
1751 today and 1852 yesterday on the Q46. Also 3807 was there this morning too but when I saw it, It was about to deadhead back to the depot.
#1751 Q46
Now THAT's what I like to hear!
-F.
3669 was on the B15 as of Wednesday afternoon.
1826, 3669 and the others just don't want to die! No doubt once a severe mechanical defect befalls any one of them, y'all can start playing taps!
Breezed thru Stamford today. Saw one Scania and a few lowfloors. On up to Milford, my intended target. Nice 'wave-like' paint scheme. Lots of mini buses, but I was after the Thomas Transit Liners. Got a few pix at the pulse point which is very interesting. The CTTransit classics come thru plus Gilligs from GBTA and Wheel's RTS's. Auto traffic is a big pain in the ***! Got to be on your toes here. Derby/ Ansonia was crap; the Metro North FL9 double header was worth it though. Middletown has several Gilligs, 35 footers I believe. They've been around for some time now.
Unless I hear of some other goings on up there, I'll keep away from the nutmeg state for a while I think.
joe c
I believe Danbury received some new buses recently, Orion V's. I assume they replaced whatever remaining Orion I's Danbury had, as the other buses (RTS's) arrived in Danbury in the mid-1990's as I recollect.
Back up I shall go!
Joe C
1982 GM RTS 7512 (Ulmer Park) has a "Stop Requested" sign like the
Blitz New Looks. Anyone know about the Blitz New Look "Stop Requested"
Signs on a GM RTS
7512-RTS-B6
Thanks
R143 Canarsie
I too would like to know, since I have a stop requested sign out of one of the 5500 series fishbowls.
Oh? How old were the 5500s?
-F.
I remember riding PA3309 a year or 2 back on the Q59 and she had a stop requested sign that looked like it came out of 1 of the Fishbowls. Is it half the size of the Stop Requested Sign Now?
#3309 Q59 Old School
Now PA3309 is a NYPD Bus.
No doubt the original one broke or was vandalised and they "stole" one out of a bus to be scrapped.
Yesterday, at Gun Hill when I went to the yard dispatcher for a pull out bus, I observed two Police officers from the NYPD Bomb Squad, checking out the parked Atrics with a bomb sniffing dog, they went thru each bus, I asked them what they were doing, and they responded
"Looking for Explosives", with that I stepped back and let them finish what they were doing. .... Kinda makes you think.....
That is scary! To think that could happen in NYC! Then again, "The Siege" It's a screwed up world we live in!
Ray
I saw a bus yesterday at H. Harding and Junction. Its rollsign was set to SPECIAL and there was a training bus banner between the headlights. As I passed it on the Q88 bus I was on, I noticed "Triboro Coach Corp." on the side, which was the red, tan, and brown of the Jamaica buses.
Question: Is it a Jamaica bus or a Triboro Coach bus? It may help if I told you the bus's number: 531.
That's former Jamaica Bus 531 which is now at Triboro Coach for training purposes.
Here are the links to 2 JBL Pics that I've taken of 531 at Woodhaven and Queens Blvds a few months back:
http://www.geocities.com/transit_world44/GC/JBL531.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/transit_world44/GC/JBL531A.JPG
This is what you saw.
Enjoy!
#531 Q29
www.transitworld.org
[http://www.geocities.com/transit_world44/GC/JBL531A.JPG]
Are those form-fitting (as opposed to indented) rear doors I see?
Yep similar to the ones GBL had except GBL had 1979 RTS-03. 531 is a 1980 GMC RTS-03.
#531 Training
#1012 Training
Excellent shots!
Thanks. Transitworld to be back in full swing by early next year.
I'll keep you all posted on any updates. Till then enjoy!
#531 Training
www.transitworld.org
Did these buses come from Gun Hill or were they always in Flatbush?
-Jay
orignally at Gun Hill. #9382-#9399 were SUPPOSED TO GO TO ULMER Park
I'd think we'd better have a roster check here. I don't remember #9382-9443 at GH, particularly since its buses cover my area. I do remember higher numbered 9400 and the ZFs milling around, though.
AFAIK - Gun Hill has never had any 93XX RTS. They did (and still do) have some 9400's which are from the same group (9350-9699).
Wayne
The only 93xx buses Gun Hill ever had were 9350 & 9351. These buses were the test buses for the coming order. One of them has the upolstered seats like in most of the 93, 94 and 95xx series and the other one has the plain blue hard seats. Once the order had begun the delivery process, 9350 and 9351 were sent to QV where they currently reside. The upper 94xx series were sent to HP.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
For a short time also, 9352-9360 were residing at Kingsbridge for short time then they left.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
You are right! I forgot about that!
Peace!
DaShawn
aka Flxible METRO D #1975
Is 9351 a 1997 Nova RTS? Reason the interior # is white with blue numbers like the 1996 Novas. Also 9351 does NOT have carpeted seats.
Last time I rode 9350, she did not have carpeted seats either. I'll get back to you all on that though since I ride QV Buses often.
#9351 Q30
#9350 Q46
My bad. Yes, I do remember when those 2 buses were at Gun Hill.
Wayne
No problem! That is why we must help each other out! Its hard to remember all these damn numbers and bus locations. We are all Human and that is hard enough! LOLOL!
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
So were the 9382-9399 always at FLA. ?
And the 9400-9443 came from Gun Hill? How long were they there?
No, 9382-9443 were always at Flatbush!!!! I do remember bus 9383 at QV for a brief moment, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Ray
I do not believe 9383 was ever at QV. 9382 perhaps was shipped to QV by mistake and then was reshipped to FLA? Anyways QV got 3503 3562 3916 and 3965 from Flatbush. QV gets all of the junk-LOL. I know these 4 were at UP also but I think they were at UP 1st before they went to Flatbush.
#3503 x27
#3562 B41
#3916 B36
#3965 Q46
IIRC, 9382-9443 were all delivered to Fkatbush in the sumer of 98 while i worked there. I remember them when they were naked without ads. One of that group maybe it was 9382 or 9442 was deleivered several weeks after the rest of the group for some reason...
I was waiting for a bus home at Campbell Court this week (Roanoke's version of Port Authority..LOL) and saw a couple of interesting buses over on the Greyhound side. Here is what I saw:
-MC-12 no. 1974 (gotta love that number) had the rear rims nicely repainted in white but the fronts were still in normal "weathered condition." I wonder why they were not done as well? It would really make the whole bus look better. The MC-12s are actualy my favorite Greyhounds.
-102 DL3 no. 1007(?) in the new all-blue paint scheme with Greyhound stripes and dogs. That baby looked SHARP! It's MUCH better looking on the DL3s than that awful plain all-white scheme. Will these colors be done across the board?
Also, some other notes: I wonder if Greyhound ever considered upgrades such as LEDs or Alcoa aluminum wheels? Personally I think the white steel wheels look best on a Greyhound but it seems as if cost-conscious Greyhound would want to save weight and fuel. Also, the LEDs would shine brighter for greater visibility. I see Greyhounds running around all the time with either dirty or burned-out rear lights. If only they would take pride in the looks of their buses like they did in the old days!
-F.
1007 is a 102D3 - 40-footer. There were about 10 buses in that order painted in that fashion, the rest were the standard "Pepsi" paint scheme, identical to what the 96A3/102A3s had.
As far as the Dog using Alcoas, LEDs and even electronic signs, don't look for it anytime soon. Greyhound is a creature of habit. It costs them less to keep the steel wheels because they are interchangeable over all their MCIs. There is a major electrolysis issue if you put steel wheels against aluminums on a dual axle, as well - you have 6to use a special coating to keep the metals from reacting against each other when they encounter road salt and other road grime. They would have to replace ALL the wheels with aluminum at once, ad they certainly don't have the money to do that. (As for that MC-12 you saw with the freshly painted rims, that was likely a tire swap.) Greyhound also probably has a supply of bulbs to use at a serious volume discount. The advantage of using bulbs over LEDs is, in most circumstances, LEDs are only at their brightest when seen dead-on. If the lens is flat, the lights fade substantially as you come to the side of the light. I notice this all the time with NJT's new MCIs and RTSs, which are primarily LED.
Oh, I see; thanks for the info. Actually, I'm not sure if that was a MC12; it may very well have been a 96A3. All I know is that they are about 1980s vintage with a slight slope to the back and quad rectangular rear lights in a squared pod on each side. I always assumed they were MC-12s!
-F.
Remember the MC-12 looks almost indentical to the MC-9. The sloped roof line at the front appears to be slightly lower on the MC-12. Also the MC-12 have the square headlight and tail/brake/turn indicators on the back end. Also - MC-12 had the DD 6V-92 engine (later units have the DD Series 50). The MC-9 had either the DD 6V-92 or DD 8V-71.
Other than these - they're nearly identical in appearance.
Wayne
Wayne, thanks for the info; I figured that was about right but wanted to make sure. Are a lot of the 96A3s still in service as well?
-F.
Fred,
I think you may mean 102A3's. They also seem to be quite rare these days, but I'm thinking that the MC-9's are probably all gone (maybe there's a few hanging around somewhere). These days between NYC-DC all I'm seeing is MC-12 (of course), 102D3's, 102DL3/D4500 and I've even seen a couple of G4500's.
Wayne
Might be the case; anyways, I like those older buses. And I LOVE the G4500s!
-F.
i think the 102a3's are being retired and sold off, at least on the west coast... as of a couple of weeks ago, i was still seeing 102a3's in new york... a lot of the drivers will be happy to see them go, as many drivers complained that they were not in good shape...
as of 2 weeks ago, carolina trailways still has at least 20 mc9's in their livery that i still see in the city... i like seeing the 9's still in service...
as for the g4500's, i've heard some driver complaints about the comfort of their seat, the control panels, and that the bus tends to wander in windy conditions... i've seen the 4500's marked up for philadelphia, which struck me odd for a new bus to doing a local run...
How old are the 102A3s? About 85s or so? Also, are they being replaced by the G4500s? Hopefully they will get the bugs out of those...they are sharp buses!
-F.
according to greyhound's website, the 102a3's first came on in 1985... whether they are being directly replaced by the g4500's, or they are partially replaced by the dl3's purchased over the last couple of years, i'm not sure...
greyhound has some information about the fleet as well as a lot of other stuff on their website...for the fleet information, click on ABOUT US on the left side, and scroll down to FLEET... it's a little outdated...
http://www.greyhound.com
if you're interested in greyhound, there is a greyhound club on yahoo that you might want to check out... there are some drivers, bus nuts, collectors of greyhound stuff, former drivers, and a few assorted crack pots like myself...
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/greyhoundthroughexpress
GO GREYHOUND
Would there be anyplace to obtain a complete Greyhound roster, or is that near to impossible?
There were very few 96A3s. They were 1985s, all in the 1300-series. They are LONG gone from service. The 102A3s then went from 14xx-17xx and 19xx-22xx. When Greyhound went bankrupt, the higher numbered 102A3s were sold to raise cash. The MC-12s were then numbered 18xx-31xx.
Whoa...Greyhound went bankrupt? When did THIS happen? And how are they still alive? I seem to recall DL3 no. 6262 at Campbell Court within the last month or so. Where did all the high numbers go? Also, how old are the MC-9s?
-F.
I was wondering what happened to those blue 'hounds. They're 1996 102D3's. At one point they could often be seen operating between NYC and Washington DC.
Wayne
Oh, very cool; I think this one was heading south or to Richmond. It was really neat-looking...MUCH more so than the plainn white DL3s!
-F.
Has anyone noticed that the old MC-9s that Greyhound still has are now sounding like they've been repowered with a DDS50 engine?
I seem to notice that on some of those older ones; I still like them best with the 92 Series though. And if Greyhound is a cost-cutter, then why are they transplanting perfectly good engines? That makes no fiscal sense whatsoever!
-F.
Again MC-9's and MC-12 look nealy identical. The latest MC-12's at Greyhound have the Detroit Diesel Series 50. I think Greyhound has very few MC-9's left.
Wayne
Wayne, I have seen those; it's good to still see the old MC-9s around.
-F.
I heard this from a driver on the b64 today. #7517 and #7520 were removed from the garage at Ulmer Park last night. The question is, where are they headed and are they gone permantly?
B64-#9311 NOVABUS RUN 013
Perhaps Lodi NJ for upgrades and repairs?
#7517 B36
#7520 B4
No time to post until now so here goes (and I'm not linking you to SubTalk!):
The day started on WMATA Rohr 1084. This train had no door chimes. I recall having one other train without the door chimes although I don't recall the number (may have been 1088 or 1089). Very nice not having them although considering the fact I had to run for this train, to hear a door chime would be reassuring.
At Grosvenor, Orion V/CNG number 5804 was waiting. I noted the "birthyear" being 99 on the front under the windshield but as I paid my fare and looked up, I saw it read 00. What year was this thing made??? The rear says 99.
Later in the day, I caught the 47 and went to Rockville. The bus was number 5353A, yet another proof the January 2001 37 AMs are from Gaithersburg as they still are (if CNGs aren't enough for you, maybe I will see if they can get 5410 out there and then what can you say?). This was my second 47 ride, I don't remember being it as fast as it was, especially north of Montrose Road. Also, why do the 47 and 56 use Maryland Avenue while the T2 uses Great Falls Road?
While in Rockville, the place I was at overlooked a street with buses on the 46, 47, 54, 56, 63, and 65 going by, and maybe some others. No interesting observations although I did see one or maybe both of the 35 foot CNGs.
After my business there was complete, I walked in through the misty rainfall to the Rockville Station. A T2 pulled in although I opted to take the Metro, for it was faster. It was now after sundown, so I got to do some nighttime photography, which I normally don't do. I got some trains at Rockville. Luckily it was the end of rush hour so about 4 trains went towards Shady Grove between the one that left for Silver Spring as I was at the T2 stop and the one I actually got on. I also tried getting a photo of a MARC train entering their Rockville Station which probably won't come out anyway due to the light or lack thereof but a CSX train had to come along just then.
The train I took towards DC was Rohr 1154. We went manual from Rockville to Bethesda (no idea why but it seemed every other train was, too) and reached speeds of up to about 65 miles per hour. Night railfanning, which I normally don't do, is fun, but the lighting from the interior of the car can be annoying. The T/O covered up the speedometer after Grosvenor :-(.
Please try to answer the questions enclosed, thanks in advance.
Seen here in the Philly-South Jersey area, were these three new MCI D-4000's:
8011- on the 551
8000- on the 412 Express
8005- on the 401 Express
Any more 8000's coming down south?
Will NJT convert the 400, 403, 406, 412, 459, and the 463 to exact fare anytime soon? Will more suburbans come to Washington Twp. garage to convert these lines to exact fare? Will more RTS's come down south? Will we get the Market St surplus transits?
Why are the windows on the Washington Twp. Flxibles so badly scratched up?
Yes, South Jersey will see up to 8020. 8021 is supposed, NOTE SUPPOSED to start the Ironbound units. As for the Fare Structure I can't tell you.
The Market Street surplus RTSs already have been placed at Orange Street and Hilton.
And for the scratched up windows, it's all about maintenance!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I seen 8013 as a training bus on Monday in Seacaucus, she looked really nice and new.
Tone
The 8000-8020 series is in addition to the 7980-7999 series and the 7700s (many ex-Egg Harbor units) already at Washington Twp.
I just saw another interesting Greyhound bus in Downtown Roanoke today; it was one I had ever seen before. The coach was coming up Jefferson St. from Campbell Court; in the distance I thought it was an MCI Renaissance from Abbott Lines as it was all white and rounded in the front with a large windshield area.
As it pulled up to a stop, I noticed it has a large slicked-back windshield and thought it was a Viking. Then I noticed the headlights; they were a neat-looking cluster of round lights on each side, a la the newer Lexus automobiles. As it turned, I noticed that the roof sides arched up slightly to a point just above the rounded roof, much like Batwings. Also, the bus had a pair of large vertical LED-style brake lights at the top of the rear which reminded me of Cadillac taillights. The engine had a smooth sound to it; not sure what it was but it might have been a Series 60.
The fleet number was 3207; any idea what this thing was? It was really neat looking...I think it may have been a new MCI!
-F.
Here is a bus that looks similar to what I saw; imagine this coach in white Greyhound scheme with white five-hole wheels. Come to think of it, I think this was it; I also recall that it had Dodge Intrepid-style bumper mount fog lamps as shown here. Nice coach!
http://www.dinamci.com/linehaulg4500.html
-F.
That was a MCI 102-G3 (G4100) that you saw, they are regular here in the NY Area!
They also have MCI G4500s (The 45 Footers) which are in the 7xxx Series, that show up here from LA once a week or so.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I happened to see one of the new G4500s at the Philadelphia Greyhound Terminal yesterday. I think it was 7032 or 7052; I didn't get a chance to see the number clearly as I was on an outbound 48 along Arch Street.
Aren't they neat? The one I saw here in Roanoke really caught my eye!
-F.
Man, those are neat buses; I LOVE 'em! They bring a fresh new look to Greyhound. Now if only they would do them up in the all-blue Greyhound scheme like I saw on DL3 no. 1007 the other day....that would look SHARP. Thanks for confirming!
-F.
A number of questions here:
First off, why have there been changes in lifts on the RTS... from the GM's and early TMC's, to the late TMC's (minor differences there, mainly speed of operation), to the Lift-U's on Novas, to those '98 Nova lifts (unbearably slow!), back to the Lift-U's again...
And why the hell did they make the lift on the '98 Novas so slow?
Not sure about the 98, but I would assume either design iterations or bid pricing had a lot to do with that.
-F.
The original RTS lifts were the best.....
I don't know if it is true or not, but I heard that when GMC sold off the design/tooling for the RTS to TMC, they refused to sell the design/tooling for the lifts. Sounds rather starnge to me, but that's the rumor that was going around the industry for years.
You mean GMC had their own design? Wow..I thought that was done by lift companies! So when did buses start coming out with lifts?
-F.
I assume that TMC thought they could do it cheeper then GMC to start making a profit right away. The first TMC RTS Wheel Chair lifts were quite bad & were out of service maore then they were in.
Mr rt__:^)
Ugh. Well, I guess they learned a lesson! Is TMC even still around?
-F.
I had this strange observation this morning while I was riding on 627 on the Q60 this morning. My bus pulled into the Grand Ave stop on Queens Blvd and saw across the street waiting to turn onto Grand Ave (Q59) Repowered TMC Bus 8000. I thought 8000 repowered-cool. I then got a glance at the depot decal. It did NOT have a Fresh Pond decal. The decal said Yukon Depot. I was like WTF? I do not remember 8000 being at Yukon at all. Why does 8000 have a Yukon Decal on her? Can anybody clarify this one cause right now I'm scratching my head? Thanks.
#627 Q60
#8000 Q59
#8000 S61?!
It must be a mistake. That's strange, I seen the 8000 last weekend on the L-Train Shuttle and I didn't notice it having a Yukon patch. They are not getting one of our buses. When I see it again I'll look to see if it has this Yukon patch on it.
Q55- RTS GMC #4720(UGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!, my damn friend forced me to ride this piece of crap!)
-Jay
4720 way a good bus about 4 years ago when I drove her out of Ulmer Park.
Robert
I'm scratching my head about how you can see across Queens Blvd and notice a decal....
I saw the "Y" in the decal while I was on 627 on the Q60. It clearly stood out. I'm used to seeing the "Blue and Black Duck" that FP has and when I saw the "Y" I was puzzled.
I must say that I have bionic eyes. :)
#8000 Q59
The FP patch is Blue, Black, and Orange with a duck in a pond. It's pretty easy to see it from a distance.
However Yukon isn't the only Depot that has a large "Y" in its logo, ENY has it too. It depends on the color, Yukon is yellow & blue(I think), and ENY is orange & blue. ENY has a side view picture of an RTS.
I'll have to see the 8000 for myself to find this Yukon patch.
-Jay
Probably has a FP Logo by now.
#8000 Q59
Hey Guys,
I am looking for a listing as to what paint schemes came in what years. The production company is getting cheap and they want to know if any of my current NYCTA painted buses will work. 3907 has silver sides and white around the windows and the blue stripe and blue skirt panels. 5285 is painted white sides, blue stripe and skirts. I am also leaning towrds repainting my T8H 5307 serial M064, ex Steinway Transit Co. #8 to the metallic green if a bus has to be repainted for this movie. Any help is appreciated.
When the first new looks arrived at NYCTA around 1959, they had the all-green paint scheme. This lasted, in a few variations, until around 1971, when the 6000 series GM fishbowls came in in the two-tone blue scheme. The remainder of GM and Flxible new looks through 1976 came in in this scheme. When the Grumman 870's started arriving (around 1979-80?), some of the new looks were subsequently repainted in the dark blue and white scheme (especially the 9000 series Flxibles). After the RTS's started arriving in 1981, the new looks repainted after that sported the lighter shade of blue of the RTS's rather than the darker blue of the Grumman's (similar to the blue on the later Blitz rebuilds).
That sounds about accurate; you're right on the ball! Also, most buses through at least 1969 were in metalflake green with silver sides...a very neat color scheme. I did a model of a NYCTA 1965 Flxible New Look in those colors once and it turned out great!
-F.
Thanks for the excellent information. I am going to pass it along to the transportation coordinator. Now it looks like I will also be repainting my Neoplan AN440-3 suburban ex Los Angeles 1124 into the most current paint scheme for New York to represent present day. Any ideas guys?
When did NYC have Neoplan suburbans? I never knew about those!
-F.
[When did NYC have Neoplan suburbans]
They didn't! I assume he is merely painting that Neoplan to look like a NYC bus even though NYC never had any Neoplan suburbans (or any Neoplans).
Untrue,the TA test a Neoplan Artric in the mid 70's and I remember them testing a AN-440 out of QV on the Q88 in 84/85
Hmm...interesting. I'd like to see pics of the mid-70s Neoplan artics. Were those even offered in the US at that time?
-F.
That's what I thought. The average moviegoer won't notice, but as for us...well, that's a different story.
-F.
Having seen both 3907 and 5285, I'd say they'll work just fine for mid-1980's to 1990's.
I'd give my left nut to see a fishbowl in the old metallic green with the proper black-outlined gold numbers. The green is the same green on Chevy trucks (S-10, etc.) from 1996 to 2001.
Well Steve, Looks like you will have a *** to lose. If the deal goes thru next week, I will be repainting the Steinway bus to the metallic green. You will have to come over and help with the details. Also 1124 will have to be repainted as current NYMTA. The Dallas scenes will be done with 351,since it was originally a Dallas Transit bus (TDH 5303 serial#3040 bus # 120) It is currently painted as San Diego Transit #351.
I'd give my THIRD one to see that paint scheme again. Oh wait, I lost that one during my hernia surgery...LOL!
Anybody hear anything about any potential buyers for the failing Nova Bus in Roswell?
There's a New Flyer D45S and 2 RTS's(One GM and anouther looks like a Nova). Is this me seeing things or this is for REAL?
Surely somebody has heard some news about Nova Bus. Anybody that knows buses knows that the RTS is the best transit bus out there, and will be missed if the manufacturing plant is closed down. Many say that the market is in the low-floor now, but I think there still a future for the high-floor RTS out there.
Amen. Let's save the grand New York flagship before it disappears.
-F.
There may indeed be a future for high-floor buses, but it is likely very limited. Look at all of the major cities that are now purchasing low-floor buses - New York, Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, Washington, Los Angeles, Miami - the list goes on and on. That is why, if I were an investor in NovaBus, I'd certainly want to know what the company was doing to improve its standing in the low-floor bus market. The New Flyer C40LF/D40LF and others have been running circles around Nova's LFS.
Jim D.
[The New Flyer C40LF/D40LF and others have been running circles around Nova's LFS.]
While you don't see that many Nova LFS's in the U.S., there are plenty of them in Eastern Canada, especially Quebec Province. When I visited the LFS manufacturing plant this Fall, the host said that the plant has been producing buses at capacity for several years. Subsequent to my visit, I saw an announcement about another large order for LFS's from Quebec Provincial operators. Sounds to me like Nova is doing just fine with its LFS.
Yes, I'm aware that Montreal in particular has a large fleet of LFS buses, and Nova landed a big order in Chicago too. From my observations, though, it appears that New Flyer is the leading producer of low-floor buses, and that NovaBus is somewhere back in the LF pack with Orion, Gillig and NABI.
Considering that Nova inherited the leading North American bus 'franchise' when they bought the RTS from TMC, that is quite a comedown.
Jim D.
Jim, I agree; that is a letdown. Then again, the LFS is less recognized as a standard in low floor design, whereas the RTS had been a standard since the late 1970s. New Flyer is definitely on top of the LF market, with Gillig looking to be second, followed by Orion, and then NABI. And there are HUGE gaps between those ranks.
-F.
>>> the LFS is less recognized as a standard in low floor design <<<
I believe I saw the Nova LFS on the streets in Santa Barbara, CA without knowing what it was. Somehow it looked very "European" to me. I wonder if that effect is having an influence (possibly subconscious) on decision makers when purchasing new buses for their fleets.
Tom
Could be. A lot of newer buses here in the US have a "Euro" design...same as what happened with cars such as the Plymouth Valiant in the early 60s. The Europeans somehow inspire us!
-F.
New Flyer is definitely on top, there is no doubt about it. However, I would think the NABI low floors are becoming more popular every day. Gillig advantages main order is probably from Hertz, but is it inexpensive like the phantom? Anyway, not many big orders for Advantages come to the east, anyway.
[Anyway, not many big orders for Advantages come to the east, anyway.]
I guess if you count the southeast as part of the east, both Broward County and Palm Beach County, Florida, have ordered a decent number of Gillig low-floor buses in the past couple of years. Broward had some low-floor New Flyers before they ordered the Gilligs.
I think I have seen the Palm Beach ones; aren't they 30-footers? I have seen a pic of one and unlike the larger Advantage models it has the smaller wheels with round fenders a la the New Flyer et al. I think those look tacky and very un-Gillig. The regular 22.5" wheels are more practical and the Phantom-style fenders look MUCH better.
-F.
MetroBus in Buffalo recently received some Gillig Advantage buses.
Jim D.
True. However, GRTC in Richmond bought a heterogeneous mix of both Phantoms and Advantages to replace their Flxibles. Also, HRT in Hampton has a ton of new Advantages in place of recently retired Flxes as well.
-F.
Low-floor buses in my opinion are annoying, ugly, and actually hold fewer passengers than a high floor bus. You can add more seats or space for standees if you are on a level above the wheels. There are other problems with the low floor design. Long live the high floor buses!
>>> Long live the high floor buses! <<<
Why don't you advocate the return of the horse drawn omnibus?? :-)
Let's face it, low floor is a natural evolution given that the purpose of transit buses is to transport people for relatively short distances. The high floor design was the result of converting truck chassis design to hauling people. The high floor on trucks came from the basic horse drawn wagon which needed high clearance to negociate rutted dirt roads. Lowering the floors on most trucks has not been important since much freight is loaded by fork lifts from docks, or from and to the shoulders of men. But in the applications most analogous to transit bus operation, package delivery (UPS or Fed Ex and mail), garbage pick up, and home delivery of bread and milk, low floor design evolved long ago.
Yesterday I rode a total of 16 buses during the day from 7:00 A.M. until 6:00 P.M. (All buses were ridden for business, not bus fanning.) At three steep steps per bus that would be quite a bit of climbing if they had all been high floor buses.* In fact, by mid day I was willing to let a high floor bus pass by and wait for the next bus when I was pretty sure it would be a low floor model. A vehicle should be engineered for its intended purpose. There is no reason to require all passengers to climb to ride. The high floor design is obsolete, and although it may be associated with fond childhood memories, it belongs in a museum along with the stagecoach and horse drawn omnibus.
Tom
* For the real bus geeks, here is the list of buses I rode:
1. Norwalk Transit Nova RTS 35ft.
2. LAMTA NABI 40LF
3. LAMTA TMC(?) RTS 40ft,
4. LAMTA New Flyer 40HF
5. LAMTA Neoplan 40HF
6. LAMTA Neoplan 40HF
7. LADOT Thor HF (a local shuttle bus)
8. LADOT Thor HF
9. LADOT National E-Z Rider LF
10. LADOT National Escort HF
11. LADOT National E-Z Rider LF
12. LADOT National E-Z Rider LF
13. LADOT National E-Z Rider LF
14. LAMTA Neoplan 40HF
15. Norwalk Transit Gillig Advantage 40LF
16. Norwalk Transit Gillig Advantage 40LF
A vehicle should be engineered for its intended purpose.
In many systems, a bus' (Is that right? Since I'm talking about the singular possessive form of bus... whatever. Maybe it should be bus's? Or is there the s rule that you just replace the apostrophe with an e, to make the word buses, even though that word is used for the plural non-possessive form?) main purpose is to carry a high capicity of people. Due to the large space the wheel well takes up, you get higher capicity in a high-floor bus, since seats can cover the wheel well and engine compartment (partly). Also, since transit companies usually want their buses to do well in all weather, a high-floor bus has shown more reliability in the past. This is one of the few cases where I'm applying the rule, "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it, mess up, then market the failure as something better."
plural of bus is buses or busses whichever you prefer. both are acceptable spellings. there is no comma involved.
Buses is correct. "Busses" is only used in British nations and territories; in the States, it is part of what a couple does when they are making out with each other.
-F.
I saw a fire truck wreck into the side of a RTS bus in Queens. The hugh bumper dug in right behind the drivers side frt wheel and peeled bulkheads all the way back to the rear wheel, even taking out the battery box. This was all inches below the floor. All the passengers walked off the bus with no injuries. I always wondered what would of happened if that would have been a low floor bus.
If that was a low floor, the passengers would have been screwed.
Tevi, your question is further proof that high floors make more sense for safety.
-F.
>>> main purpose is to carry a high capicity of people <<<
That is much too simple. If capacity were the prime consideration, you would remove all the seats except over the wheel wells. In practice most transit buses do not operate at full capacity all day long. The tradeoff of a few seats for easier boarding on transit buses makes sense. On long distance coaches where people get on and ride for hours with luggage which needs to be stowed, the high floor makes sense.
High floor transit buses remind me of the time when consumer products were manufactured with an eye to reducing manufacturing costs, and let the consumers live with the result. The Japanese in the late ‘50s and early ‘60s put an end to that by designing products to please the end users (think of cup holders in autos, TV remote controls), and the world has followed. The end user (the fare paying passenger) has to be the one considered in designing transit buses. As I pointed out in my earlier post, climbing three steps each time a passenger boards a bus (a total of 48 steps on the day I described) is a lot to ask of the passenger, when it can be done in a more user friendly way.
Tom
You can't deny that access to a low floor can't be beat but I believe for the TA it's the reduced cost of not having a WC lift. By the way are fares any cheaper on a LF bus? If you look at the auto industry you see seats that are a foot off the ground in sports cars to seats you have to crawl up in on a SUV, I think it's a matter of preference.
If I ever get a chance to ride a low floor bus I hope it has a high section in the rear because thats where I'll be. By the way, my fat ass can use all the exercise it can get!!!
>>> but I believe for the TA it's the reduced cost of not having a WC lift <<<
I doubt that. A low floor bus has a motorized loading ramp for wheelchairs, which may cost less than a lift, but still is an expense. It is a time saver because the B/O does not leave his seat to operate it. Low floor buses do tend to cost more initially and have slightly higher maintenance costs per passenger mile than high floor buses.
Tom
Thats good news for the high floor buses, thanks for the info.
Absolutely. Therefore, a low-maintenance high floor is more value for the money due to less down time and longer service life!
-F.
>>> Therefore, a low-maintenance high floor is more value for the money due to less down time and longer service life! <<<
Only the smaller transit companies will ignore the increased user acceptance of the modern buses. They will probably use converted Bluebird school buses to reduce their expenditures. :-)
Tom
Bluebirds? UGH!!!!
-F.
Most low floors have a high part in the rear that is reminiscent of a church choir section; that should keep you in shape somewhat. LOL!
-F.
You can't beat the boarding time of a LF either
But 48 steps is the average workout on a StairMaster, so look at the bright side...those who are able to do so are staying in shape!
-F.
Absolutely. Good points, Tevi. For those reasons I see high-floors staying in demand for a good long time. After all, they are usually built more "heavy duty" than most low floors AND sever a better purpose what with their higher capacity. All that used up space on a low floor defeats its purpose as a MASS transit vehicle; with the room left over, you might as well run a van! And THAT would be a sad day in transit history. Besides, lifts make them just as practical as anything built two inches off the ground, especially in snow.
-F.
High floor buses are great, and I certainly hope they won't disappear, but low floor buses do have their advantages. Like, for instance, it's helpful for the elderly and other people who can't climb steps very well. However, high floor buses do make you feel like you are actually riding a bus. Also, if you are in a bilevel lowfloor bus, like most lowfloor buses are, it's sorta wierd to sit so low in the front and then have a section so high in the back. I also heard someone say that high floors have a smoother ride than low floors, although despite the fact that I have ridden exactly 3 low floor buses (Two Miami Dade NABIs and a WMATA Orion VI) i can't particularly vouch for this. I don't see how they are particularly annoying though.
>>> Also, if you are in a bilevel lowfloor bus, like most lowfloor buses are, it's sorta wierd to sit so low in the front and then have a section so high in the back. <<<
That is particularly true in the NABI, if you are sitting on one of the laterally facing seats right behind the front wheels, and you look toward the back of the bus, there are front facing seats at three levels so when the seats are occupied it looks like people in a theater balcony. If you are at all paranoid, you feel like twelve people are staring at you.
>>> I also heard someone say that high floors have a smoother ride than low floors <<<
It may be an illusion, but is seems that with the floor of the bus so close to the ground, there is less room for vertical movement in the springs, and therefore a harder ride.
Tom
Ah, nothing like the back seat jury...LOL!
Also, the spring explanation makes perfect sense; I would have thought it was more of a structural issue, as in a lack thereof.
-F.
Now that the TA has a mixture of low-floor and high-floor buses, have there been any statistics out on the comparable speed of loading and unloading passengers? Before the arrival of the "New Look" GM, New York had several bus and trackless models with double-width front doors or double-width center exits. Speedy loading and unloading not only helps the riders get to their destinations more quickly, but it should reduce the operating expenses of the company. The slow loading of the New Looks and the RTS hinders the movement of passengers.
>>> Now that the TA has a mixture of low-floor and high-floor buses, have there been any statistics out on the comparable speed of loading and unloading passengers? <<<
I am not aware of statistics, but observation is enough to tell that loading and unloading is faster with a low floor bus. There is one stop with a popular transfer to another bus with a very tight time frame. When the NABI pulls up to its stop, passengers pour out of the front and back doors like paratroopers jumping from a plane. 10-15 passengers leave the bus within ten seconds. There is not such an increase in speed in loading because there is still a traffic jam at the fare box. There is a noticeable decrease in loading time on buses where a majority of the boarding passengers have a pass which they show the driver. It is really noticeable at a stop in front of a retirement home, where many of those boarding not only have a pass, but are also elderly and walking with a cane or walker.
Tom
Joe, you have a point about loading, but doesn't the higher maintenance of a low floor slow the transit system as well?
Actually, I have found that low floors do have a rougher ride than high floors. I rode New Flyer LFs and Thomas SLFs and found that to be just the case.
-F.
Very true. New Flyers are becoming very much commonplace all over.
-F.
Saw 9375 on the T2 at River Road and Little Falls on the 3:30 out of Friendship (MT10, IIRC) and its rear lights were not LEDs. It did have the newer lights (circles) but they were bulbs.
Also, the flags have been removed from the backs of buses. I have seen some of the ones that had them and I have simply seen no others for the past few weeks. I'll try to get the flag pics online soon.
OK..that's a little backwards. Round lights without LEDs? In that case, they should have just left that one alone and kept the wraparounds on there..they are MUCH more aesthetically pleasing.
As for the flags, I guess patriotism is unfortunately seen as a passing fad by the folks at WMATA.
-F.
Well, that might be a little unfair . . . the country as a whole is not as star-spangled as it was two months ago, and some of the immediacy has passed. I can appreciate your sentiment, but I see a super-size flag like that as more of a temporary thing, like the holiday bus. (The flag decals on the Metorail cars, however, seem to be permanent, so there is some lingering patriotic sentiment. :)
And speaking of the holiday bus . . . is the contest going on this year? I haven't seen any since I've been back in DC (Wednesday). Traditionally, each garage decorates a bus for the competition . . . they appear at the Metro Christmas party but also in revenue service.
I rode my first CAF 5000-series Metrorail car today, just from Gallery Place to Mt. Vernon Square on the Yellow line (I was actually going in the other direction, to King St., but I took the brief ride just to check out the cars). They're very nice; I like the interior colours and LED signage much more than the original schemes. I'm just surprised at how little they changed . . . surely some elements of the original interior design were ready for improvement? (I didn't check out the operator's cockpit, though.) It's a little weird to see that shiny new stainless-steel and a "CAF" logo instead of the Breda stallion, but on the whole I like them. I just hope that they don't bastardize the design with NYC- or MBTA-style longtitudinal seating in the next order, though, as has been proposed . . .
C
Maybe the flags came off this week, because I know I saw one on an Orion VI last weekend, but I haven't seen a whole lot of buses the last few days. Now that a lot of buses my way are using Arlington Divison buses, Flxibles on the weekend are few and far between. When Four Mile Run was providing all of the Virginia buses, they were all over, but its mostly newer Orions from the Arlington Division being used. I have been seeing a lot of side advertisements on the Orion VI's lately. I guess it was only a matter of time for them to get the right size for the lower sides.
I was downtown tonight and on Connecticut Ave. near the Dupont Circle Station, 9632 was sitting there with the engine turned off and a "Call Police" sign on it. The side number box had 911 on it. Not sure what was going on as there were no police around. Then, on the southbound side of Connecticut, 9316 was sitting there with a supervisor SUV behind it. Not sure what was going on down there.
The contest is going on, but the trains wont be running in service with the decorations. From what the WMATA website said, it was to alleviate concerns of people who see an "unknown substance". I guess since they were using fake snow and didn't want to freak anyone out. Its a shame that something innocent like this can't go on because of morons. There was or is a bus parade slated near the MCI Center to display several buses that are being decorated. I doubt those will go in service like that either.
No kidding...those damnned terrorists have even ruined the holidays! I say that when we all take down our trees, we need to capture the Taliban so we'll have a good place to shove them!
-F.
I see your point on the flags; I just think people should be more proud of their freedom and not take it for granted. Hey, do you have any pics of the new 5000-series? Also, are the Bredas still in service? I know they were built around 1981 but WMATA tends to keep equipment longer (i.e. the 1963 Fishbowls retired in 2000), especially if it is as proven as the Breda. Let me know; thanks!
-F.
Don't listen to the Breda sucks propaganda on SubTalk. The Type-8s seem to be just one trouble plauged order and our Bredas are perfectly fine. They were delayed, too, but it was due to labor relations, not faulty construction. The 2000 and 3000 Series Bredas are off for rehab as the CAF cars arrive, so we won't really have a car surplus until the rehab is finished.
I agree with you that people shouldn't take freedom for granted . . . I guess every cloud has a silver lining, and in the case of 9/11, it was the resurgence of patriotism and an appreciation of this fine country.
The Bredas (2000, 3000, 4000) are indeed still in service, as are the original Rohr cars (series 1000) . . . they likely will remain in service for the forseeable future, as Metro is experiencing a car crush as ridership surges (although the tourism nosedive after 9/11 has helped somewhat). As Oren pointed out in another post, though, the Breda cars can now be taken out of service for refurbishment without compromising service.
C
Absolutely. Also, it's good to hear the Bredas are still around; what will be refurbished in them? Also, ever ride the Rohrs..what are they like?
-F.
I would think that the refurbishment of the Breda cars would be on the order of a general overhaul -- i.e., upgrade/repair traction and electrical systems, replace carpeting and seating as appropriate, fix balky doors, etc. Oren probably knows more about this than I do, so I'll defer if he has any additions.
The Rohr (1000) cars are not markedly different from the Bredas, but they "feel" a little older. Some of the most obvious differences include a different pattern on some interior panels (as opposed to flat beige on the Bredas), more seats (additional seating around the doors on the Rohrs was omitted on the Bredas in order to increase standee capacity and increase handicapped accessibility), variations in trim and lighting, and a distinctive sound to the propulsion system, particularly when accelerating and decelerating.
C
Oh, I see; bet those Rohrs are neat! I look forward to seeing the differences in the refurbed Bredas. Also, what kind of cars are used at Cleveland RTA?
-F.
You got most of it. The most noticible change will be the upgrade to the new interior color scheme which is on the CAF cars.
So they ARE going to change that? I didn't know that -- thanks for letting us know.
Not sure what I think about that -- the new colors are very modern, high-tech, spiffy, but I also like the warm glow of the Bredas' and Rohrs' colors. I hope they don't retrofit the entire fleet with the new colors, though.
C
They are going to. Enjoy it while it lasts. I have yet to see the new scheme yet since I haven't ridden the CAF cars.
What colors will they go to? Grey? Blue? Let me know; thanks!
-F.
Potomac blue, Colonial burgandy, and Chesapeake sand.
Whoa...bet that'll be nicer than the tired old tannish yellow!
-F.
CAF cars on the yellow line? You sure you weren't on green? Some yellow line trains do come out of Greenbelt but I don't think the are going to run the CAF cars there for now.
Yes, you're right; it was Green . . . I must have absent-mindedly typed that while thinking of the Yellow line train that I was originally waiting for. As I said, I only rode the CAF car for one stop . . . I would love to ride them on the Blue or Red lines, though . . . that would be quite a ride, particularly on the Blue line stretch from National Airport to Franc-Springd and the Red from Medical Center to Shady Grove.
C
>>> As for the flags, I guess patriotism is unfortunately seen as a passing fad by the folks at WMATA. <<<
I think it is the flags rather than patriotism that is a passing fad. Considering the way the rear of a bus gets dirty when operating in inclimate weather (particularly with slush on the streets), it is hardly an appropriate place for an American flag. Here on the west coast I have not seen the larger transit agencies rushing to place flag decals on all the equipment, but I can assure you the people here remain patriotic. You might be interested in my Sub Talk post on the subject of flags.
Tom
Thanks Tom; I'll take a look.
-F.
Whats up with this? The Orion V numbers run 101-317 then 401-680. What happened to 318-399? Are they never to arrive? If MTA-New ?York City Bus is short, then they should go back to orion to get them to make 318-399
I saw it. #996. On 42nd Street towards 5th Avenue. The side sign said Express. looks mighty nice. Maybe it headed to Quill. Could this bus be going to the X90 and X92 route? Stay tuned.
And I got a picture of it. Tune in soon to http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/railsandtrains to check out my transit pictures.
So I said to the tow truck guy "Those Cummins are givin ya trouble" and he said "all the time, all the time".
Hmm..sounds like the Allison 5-speeds in our 94 Gilligs. They are so bad that Gillig had to extend the warranty by two years. I was just riding 9409 yesterday and wondered why I hadn't seen it in a while ad found out why...it jerked like a bucking bronco on every downshift! It was so bad the driver had to warn everyone standing up so they wouldn't eat the floor upon egress. The mechanics dread those buses and pointed out that the Series 50 is too high-torque for those fragile gears. Some powertrains are just bad out of the box!
-F.
While I was pulling out from Quil today, i saw i think it was 995 pulling into the shop on the second floor. it is a good looking bus. and yes, the 2800's at yukon smell to new.
That had to be 996; 995 was one of the numbers of the Nova LFS demo.
I have photos of the New Flyer D45S Viking at Casey Stengel Depot...if anyone wants to see them (though they might not be good ones), e-mail me at carlwal@hotmail.com and I will send them to you...
--Carlton
Cleanairbus
carlwal@hotmail.com
The Cleanairbus Transit Page...http://cleanairbus.tripod.com
My Transit Page...http://communities.msn.com/mytransitpage
Remeber 995 were renumber 999 some time later.
Robert
[Remeber 995 were renumber 999 some time later.]
Not exactly. There were stories that when the Nova LFS first came to NYC, it was numbered 999. I can't personally confirm this, but in any event early in its test run in NYC it was numbered (or renumbered) 995, except that number 999 remained on its exterior roof during its entire stay in NYC. Hence, the confusion.
O I have it backword. Thank.
Robert
Yes, when the Nova LFS first came to ny, it was numbered 999. i have a picture of it numbered 999. if anyone wants to see it, email me.
"Here we go again" Another high-low speed Chase .....Watching LIVE on KCAL channel 9 TV..
A los angeles metro bus # 119 vermont manchester avenues location was hyjacked & stolen ...
It is now doing Aprox 60 mph on southbound highway 605 picking up high speed...
standby for next post i will keep you up to speed on this
( please excuse my errors ) thank you salaamallah
it is bus # 6589 just got off of the 605 in el montie
a whole lot of police behind this bus !!
the left inside tire has worn off from a spike strip & is sparking still in pico revera doing a high rate of speed
the left inside tire has worn off from a spike strip & is sparking still in pico revera doing a high rate of speed
i think the bus may go out of control & FLAME UP
bus is now on the 91 freeway stopped the engine has been shut off by the highway patrol & the back axle wore out ...
The bus thief holed up inside the bus for 85 minutes and then came out and laid down on the ground and was arrested. The SR91 Freeway was closed during this whole episode, which took place atop Magnolia Street in Orange County. All traffic was diverted to I-5 south.
That's what was mentioned int he Orange County Register, Saturday's edition. No name of the perpetrator, or anything else.
What kind of bus is it?
6589 is a Neoplan AN-440A CNG bus; I forget which year off the top of my head, but I think it's a 1995 or 1996.
Lemme take a guess that it uses a Cummins engine? Ya know a bus theif won't get too far from the depot with a Cummins.
I stand corrected. 6589 is a 1998 Neoplan AN-440A CNG. The Neoplan CNG order broke down as follows:
4500-4793 - delivered 1995-1997 - Cummins engine
6301-6600 - delivered 1997-1998 - Cummins engine
6700-6799 - delivered 1999 - DDC 50G engine
I didn't have my LACMTA notes in front of me when I posted last night.
by the way they guy that hyjacked that bus has been shown in court on TV here ...
...just a comment ....thankz
Many years back, we had a thief who took a NYCT bus from a depot in Manhattan, then returned it to steal a second bus, which he crashed near Grand Central. The newspapers stated he was displeased with the dirty conditions, and needed a cleaner bus. He also had a record for impersonating subway employees.
What a fruitcake!
-F.
its over the guy is captured ...
the whole thing did not make any sense at all in the end
Hyjack a bus ??? ...................what ???
To those who have websites that contain roster ##s of buses: I indicated in a message some time ago that there were two additional buses out of Manhattanville depot that were repowered. They were #8250 and #8290. Those who listed #8290 as being repowered may want to take that bus off ASAP! It hasn't been repowered yet. I'm very sorry about this to those who may have ran into trouble (legal or otherwise) over the mis-listing.
I think the same goes for 8162 out of FLA.
This movie ran again the other night on a cable channel. It was near the end of the movie when the boys are being chased back to Angel Beach by Porky and his brother-in-law the Sheriff (played by Alex Karras)they cross over the county line. As soon as they do, the band starts up and you see a GMC Old Look made out to be a school bus.
This is the bus where Pee Wee loses his "cherry"
Great movie shows a young Kim Cattral (now Samantha of Sex in the City)in brown hair as an assistant gym teacher.
LOL...losing it in the back of a Old Look. I LOVE it! I'll bet Kim Cattral looked cute as a brunette. Judging by that and "Sex In The City", she sure does like to be around buses. What a great show!
-F.
Here's another bus sighting; Daffy Duck rides an Old Look to Hollywood, then steps off and dances and whoops around like usual.
The bus was in green and white and looked very realistic!
-F.
Hey Fred since you mention Police Academy 6 in a previous post, look at one of the earlier movies in the series. One has Kim Cattral as Mahoney's love interest. Another movie has a young and chunkier Sharon Stone.
Oh? Which one had Cattral in it? Also, I remember Sharon Stone in those movies...she was looking GOOD too!!!
-F.
Saw a new ad for this phone-order coffee. Showed a Fishbowl in great condition. Didn't recognize the livery, bus number or other identifying marks (if there were any).
Anybody see this ad.
I sure have; the livery was a mystery to me as well. It's good to see transit portrayed as serving a well-to-do person on TV for once! Usually riding a bus is seen as a no-class thing to do. What a shame.
-F.
Saw this MCI parked N/B last night at 7:30PM on Deer Park Avenue across from St. Cyril's church where the service for Ray Downey Sr is taking place.
It was providing shuttle service for those who cannot attend today's service.
May Ray Downey and all the brave heros of 9/11 REST IN PEACE !!!!
Bus number 5227 from Bladensburg was the winner of the annual decorating contest, held yesterday outside MCI Center. No word on the winner of the rail contest, which was held at Greenbelt Yard. The trains (and the buses, too, probably) will not be running in revenue service with the decorations due to potential safety concerns.
Perhaps only shown in Canada (?), there is a commercial for a Video Rental Store (Roger's Video I believe)that uses a GM New Look. The bus comes along the road and a woman does a rolling fall out of the door while the bus is moving. She picks herself up, shakes herself off and drops her movie on the return slot! The movie? SPEED!
Not sure where the bus is from but it looks great. As an avid fan of the GM Fishbowl, I am always happy to see them preserved in the movies or whatever!
LOL...what a GREAT concept! That is a HILARIOUS take on the movie. I'm with you there; I LOVE to see Fishbowls in the movies.
Another great Hollywood moment was in Police Academy 6; the criminal alias "Mastermind" was found to be plotting crimes along the old No. 51 bus route. As a result, one of them commandeers a Fishbowl on the route that looked remarkably like the one used in Speed but had a "UTA" logo on it. The bus smashed a police cruiser, ran OVER numerous parked cars, and finally took out a fire hydrant, all with passengers inside. As a little girl steps off, she says: "You're MUCH better than the regular driver!".
And what's more, this was 5 years before Speed!
-F.
Saw another bus just now; in the commercial for "Not Another Teen Movie", a kid is dancing around in his prom tux and is mowed down by a speeding RTS. The bus is white with fine multicolor blue side stripes and has either chrome steel wheels or Alcoa aluminums. I've gotta see this!
-F.
I have in my possesion a redesigned Lakeland 96-A3 Bus Bank. This is the old one.
The new one is basically like their new D4000s from NJT right down to the front sign reading of 46 DOVER. I'm guessing both the paint and signs on my Bank and the D4000s have something to do with NJT contract operations of Lakeland. Who knows maybe with NJT's Proposed Fare Hike Lakeland may get its lost business back from NJT leading to Lakeland contract operating MidTown Direct ;-)
FX, started about 6PM. Enjoy!
-F.
It's been on a lot lately.
JD
It sure has; that makes us all the more able to see buses in action!
-F.
a FUn movie to watch ,,!!!!
VERY much so. And it comes on again at 5:30 PM Sunday!
-F.
Yes, I saw it Friday evening. While we're on the subject. I noticed one error or inaccuracy. It was at the point when Keanu Reeves was driving the Jaguar next to the bus. When Reeves instructed the driver to open the door... The driver did so, but instead of pushing the door control lever forward to the first position (front door open, exit door closed, locked) he pulled the lever backward. I'm sure you all know that the first backward position is (exit door unlocked, front door closed) which should applied the brakes. But hey that's Hollywood.
Just an observation.
Wayne
We modified the door controllers for the movie. Either forward or backwards opened both front and rear in any position. We also disengaged the interlock system for the scenes with the rear doors open.
Speaking of speed, can someone email me every possible minute detail of the type of bus (ie, weight, engine power, top speed, passenger capacity, GVWR). My friend's son is doing a science project to discover if it is really possible to jump a bus 50'.
-Hank
I can help a bit with that. Here is some info on the bus used in Speed....fellow BusTalkers may add to it if they wish:
Engine: Detroit Diesel 71 Series (possibly an 8V71)
Horsepower: 230 HP (give or take)
Seating Capacity: 53
Gross Weight: 25,000-30,000 lbs.
Hope that helps you get started!
-Fred
Most of the buses used for Speed weighed much more. You have to remember tha t we put power steering on all of them. We also had to do many reinforcements for camera positions.... as in being able to drive one from behind the right front wheel and another from the roof. We had to weld in sub frames to hold the scafolding that ran along the sides and stuck out by 3 foot. Each bus had a specific purpose. The engines were all 6V 71's. The Grumman that was blown up was actually an ex SCRTD bus. I dont know how to send pictures with this post so if anyone wants to explain how in a personal email, that would be great.
Wow....sounds like a bunch of work! So did that put each bus closer to about 35,000 lbs?
-F.
How many TDH-5304's were needed for Speed?
Wayne
There were no TDH 5304's used in the movie. There was a 5301, ex LA#5233(under carriage scenes),a TDH 5303 ex Dallas, ex OCTD, TDH 5303's from San Diego, (one drove from the roof, one from behind the first forward facing seat on the right, one had scaffolding along the roof and skirts, One had anti tip bars along both sides) a T6H 5305A GM demonstartor serial 087, San Diego TDH 4519's, a TDH 4519 from Stockton and a SCRTD Flx # 4301 that was used for interior sounds.
WAS THE FLXIBLE BEING OPERATED BY REMOTE CONTROL, BEFORE THE BLEW IT UP?
TONE
Oh wow...you were involved with the making of "SPEED"? Do tell us more; it's always great to hear from those behind the scenes!
-F.
Wayne, that's correct; I never noticed. Same reason why you probably saw part of the bus dented in one scene and unscathed the next. More vehicular examples of unreality:
-"Bullitt" (1968): A brand new Dodge Charger loses a total of five hubcaps and each magically reappears on the car in the next scene. Since when did Chrysler offer a "Regenerating Hubcap" option?
-"Dukes Of Hazzard" TV series: In one scene, Enos is driving a 1975 Plymouth Fury and it turns into a 1973 Dodge Polara in the next scene. Same with Rosco P. Coltrane and his Plymouth Gran Fury that turns into an AMC Matador as if by magic. In each case, the two cars look TOTALLY different from each other. Also, the General Lee was infamous for having huge dents in one scene and looking like new in the next. Maybe the car had superhuman healing capability?
-"Knight Rider" TV series: When K.I.T.T. engages in "Turbo Boost", a fake Trans Am is shown blasting up in the air in some scenes that looks more like a go-kart with a Firebird body on it. Or maybe it was a radio-controlled model?
Vehicles are CONSTANTLY misrepresented in the movies. With all the money spent on production, you'd think there would be some extra care in engineering. It really makes you shake your head when you see it.
-F.
-"Bullitt" (1968): A brand new Dodge Charger loses a total of five hubcaps and each magically reappears on the car in the next scene. Since when did Chrysler offer a "Regenerating Hubcap" option?
They did, but it was only available on the Newport, New Yorker, and 300 in '68.
LOL...very good! You must be a fellow Mopar fan yourself!
-F.
I'm more of a Ford fan, but I come from a long line of Mopars and AMCs on my mother's side :). My "new" (post-1970) cars are Chryslers. I only like GM for their buses :P
Gotcha; same here on GM..I like them for their buses and a few of their classic car designs, i.e. the '57 Chevy. For the most part, I am a Mopar fan as those are what I grew up with; I was brought home from the hospital in a 75 Fury, Mom had a 75 Dart, I had one in high school, and now I drive a 94 Intrepid. In fact, most older buses are technically adopted Mopars as Detroit Diesel has been purchased by DaimlerChrysler. (A fact of note: the 6v71 is 426 cubic inches, as was the famous Hemi engine that dominated racing and Main Street. Technically I can say that our restored Grumman 870 at the museum is a "Hemi bus"...just take a look at the valve cover design! :)
On a lighter note, did you ever notice that the 57 Chevy looked a lot like a 56 Plymouth? Take a look sometime, especially at the rear.
-F.
On a lighter note, did you ever notice that the 57 Chevy looked a lot like a 56 Plymouth? Take a look sometime, especially at the rear.
Yeah, but with the fins clipped a few feet...
A Hemi Flx? Coolness. Any Branford members out there want to do some performance mods to 2021? ;)
I made my first trip home in a '78 Volare wagon, purchased just for me; we also had a '68 Ambassador 990 at the time. I just picked up a '94 LHS to replace my '84 New Yorker; any technical advice on the '94 LH-series? :)
Orions are Mopars; what a shame...
No, but when Chrysler was launching their LH cars many said it stood for Last Hope. I not a Chrysler fan, but I'm happy that the LH cars (as well as the JA, and PL) were successful.
Wayne
Absolutely. Never heard that abbreviation before, but yes, the cars were a smash success. And they are a HELL of a lot nice than the boxy K-Car variants they replaced....my 94 Intrepid is the best car I have ever owned next to my 75 Dodge Dart. Kudos to the LH cars!
-F.
Oh yeah you're right. Those are the internal platform code names. From Chrysler the most well known one was the K car. This platform started out in the early 80's with the Dodge Aries K/Plymouth Reliant and nearly every Chrysler car in the 80's were built on the K-car platform including the Voyager/Caravan. The JA cars are the Breeze/Cirrus and PL is the Neon.
GM had a platform for nearly half the alphabet before they went to a different naming scheme.
Glad your Intrepid is serving you well. I'm a Honda guy. A few weeks ago I bought a new '02 Accord EX V-6. On Sunday I drove my '92 Accord (186,000 trouble free miles) to NYC and it continues to perfrom like a champ - which is a big part of why I didn't trade it in.
Wayne
Is it me or was there also a scene in Speeed where when the bus is hitting all the cars just as the bus is coming off the shoulder, did it look like a 30 or 35 footer?
Tone
I SWORE I saw a 35-footer in some scenes; any confirmation on this?
-F.
LOL...Hemi Flx! I have a lady friend who was brought home in a 78 Volare Wagon as well; she is 22 now and still drives it to school this very day. :) I always thought those were nice cars; in fact, I have an original promo model of a 77 in my collection.
What advice do you need on the LHS? I have a 94 Intrepid which is the same thing under the skin; a good place to go is Yahoo! Clubs: Dodge Intrepid. Concorde and Vision owners go there as well. Join the club and we'll help you out the best we can; also, check out The Flxible Fanatics while you're there...that is a great club as well.
I knew about the Orion deal; those are nice buses. I thought they were odd at first sight but I rode WMATA #3900 when it came to Roanoke for testing last summer on the Downtown Express and found it to be a smooth-riding bus. The driver actually said it reminded her of our old Flxible New Looks as it felt to her to be "a nice, heavy bus"! We ultimately got Thomas SLFs for that run though...which is ALSO a DaimlerChrysler bus as well. Guess we got Mopars after all!
-Fred
I have a lady friend who was brought home in a 78 Volare Wagon as well; she is 22 now and still drives it to school this very day. :)
Lucky man :). When I bought my '69 Thunderbird, there was a 16 year old girl who also wanted it. Too bad I already had a girlfriend at the time ;). I'm checking out the Intrepid group; thanks!
I'm not a huge Orion V fan. They look too much like shoeboxes and don't ride all that well. The VI and VII look cool but don't seem to be so reliable, like Neons. But K-Setra is DaimlerChrysler, too, and those are cool buses :).
In retrospect, I think of situations such as that where I did not cheat on my girlfriends. Would I do it if I could go back and change things? Hell YEAH I would...LOL! Yeah, check out the Intrepid site; it's great stuff.
As far as the Orion V, it's not the best-looking bus in the world but is decent and rides nicely. And the WMATA version reminds me of the Flx Metros insode...something about the faux woodgrain and that slanted-in greenhouse. Made me feel right at home!
-F.
I am a major Mopar fan. My first car was a '73 Dodge Dart 340 Sport with the original 340 engine which was worked. The car resembled a Duster. It had a factory sunroof, fold down rear seat, bucket seats and center console. Outside was burgandy with a white "up and over" stripe, similar to the one on the Starsky & Hutch car. It also had a white pedestal spoiler on the trunk and white hood scoop. The engine had a 650 holley carb, blackjack headers, larger cam and an 8 & 3/4 inch dana rear with G6014 tires sitting on Crager rims. No other small block engine in the area could touch me. And the big blocks were only faster by a nose. Of all the cars I have owned, I miss that one the most. I owned it from 1982-1987.
Yup, those were the days.
BIG AL
Yes, they were, Al. Good thing to know I'm not the only one who sings the tune of Archie Bunker...LOL! That 73 Sport sounds like a sweet car; check out my e-mail about those that I sent you.
Also, if you ever watched "Welcome Back, Kotter" you will not only notice NYC Subway cars and pre-Blitz 8800 series Fishbowls, but at the end you will also notice at least two Dart Sports, one is turning to go up the borough. Check it out sometime!
-Fred
I cried when I saw the Flxible 870 get blown up! :=(
Tone
So did I. Also, 870s are less common than their younger Metro sisters. What a waste of a rare bus!
-F.
In this move that I saw show Bruse Willis getting of a Neoplan AN440 in NEW SEPTA Colors. The # on it showed #3341. Also showed a Guy Getting Off a Neoplan in the OLD SEPTA Colors and it show the Backdoor with a BLUE W/C Logo. And even show a NJT Flxible Metro B Suburban looks like somewhere near Philly City Hall.
I this movie, "Jason's Lyric", aired on UPN this past Friday, over and over again was the appearance of Houston Metro NABI 416 #2547...Some of you might have seen this movie and can comment on it...I think the movie actually does take place down in Houston, TX. Not sure...
No ads on the bus, just bare naked with the METRO logo and #2547 on it...that was all...
Carlton
Hmm...naked bus, eh? do the women get that way in the movie as well?
Tame that tiger down a bit, Flxible...the women do not get naked...just the NABI...
Carlton
Whoa...gotta see this one. How long is the NJT Flx Suburban shown?
-F.
For "Flxible" and anyone else interested...
These are Bob Redden shots, taken in Winnipeg, Manitoba in the summer of 1978 - all credits and rights belong to him. Links will open in a separate browser window.
Old Western Flyer
This is an older model Western Flyer coach in service for Eagle Bus Lines
Western Flyer Canuck 600
This is a Western Flyer Canuck 600 coach in service for Grey Goose. I believe this was their final model.
These coaches were 35-foot standard deck, about the same configuration as the MC-5 series. The family that owned Grey Goose also owned Flyer when these coaches were developed. Grey Goose actually put in a bid with GMC to buy their intercity coach (P8M4905A/H8H649), and would have kept it in production had an agreement been reached in 1980.
Very nice buses; they remind me of a cross between a Flxliner and a MC-8. Thanks for the photos!
-F.
For all the Flx NewLook fans out there (myself included) I highly recommend the movie "Quick Change". Towards the end of the film, there's a 10-minute segment where Bill Murray, Geena Davis and Randy Quaid commandeer ex-NYCTA bus 7098, a 1973 Flxible running on the Q9. Anyone know if this bus is still in existence?
Gee, I hope so. Wow, what a neat movie to know about..must rent it.
-F.
That was really NOT a NYCTA bus in "Quick Change"!!!
The interior is gold/tan in color, there are forward-facing, cushioned seats. There were NO NYCTA Flxibles done this way.
If you look at all the advertising cards in the bus, many of them have ads for NJ Transit.
I'd suggest that somehow they used a NJ Transit bus for the bus scenes in "Quick Change".
Also the Q9 is actually a Green Bus route, not NYCT. That scene was shot at Jamaica Ave. and 124 St., Richmond Hill, Queens. The actual route is the Q56.
I remember this for that sign had Q9 on it until at least 1999/2000.
I remember seeing that bus stop sign also. Before I knew about the movie, I thought to myself either that the Q9 was extended or the wrong sign was installed which occurs now and then.
Actually the TA did have some buses in the NJ Transit interior scheme(tan interior with orange/yellow forward facing seats.These were 76 Flxibles(9000 series;9140-9155 I think)used mainly in Staten Island for express service except in the early to mid 80's when they had a cup of coffee at FLU.(they also had split curtain front destination signs.)
Wow..neat! Are you sure they are 76es? I thought the 9000s were 77s.
-F.
That sounds about right. IIRC, NYC Flxibles had blue interiors with side-facers all the way to the back.
-F.
Check the movie again. I could be wrong, but I'm 99.9 percent sure that they were the blue hard plastic seats similar to the ones used by MSBA. Also, note the farebox. It looks like either a Johnson or a Keene (the city was using those at that time). And after all, why would they go through the effort of converting a NJ Transit bus when the city still had Flx NewLooks in 1990.
Maybe the seats were blue....but the WALLS were gold. NYCTA walls were light blue. Why would they bother going through the trouble of painting the walls gold?
As for the farebox, NYCTA was NOT the only user of them, so that's not a good spotting feature. I was driving buses out here ont he west coast with the same exact fareboxes.
Why wouldn't they use a TA bus? Because TA wouldn't LET them use the bus, that simple.
Why would they go through the trouble of painting a NJ Transit bus? Maybe it was one already sold off by NJT, and owned by a private individual. Hate to tell you, but that happens quite a lot, especially right out here in California in the movie industry. I can tell you of a couple individuals who do such things for the industry.....if you don't know who they are already!! (HINT: one does post here!!)
If you want to look closely at the details in that bus in "Quick Change", try looking at the interior advertising cards. I counted at least two of them with NJ Transit ads.....
I would assume this to be a NJT unit; perhaps the blue seats were NYCTA surplus sent to Jersey while it was still in service.
-F.
Earlier in the movie, one of the items that Bill Murray asks for as part of his prisoners' ransom is a "city bus with a full tank of gas". They bring him an NYCT RTS, but there are no interior shots.
I've gotta see this!
-F.
Like any movie or TV show, there's a load of geographical errors. For me, the inadvertently funniest part of the movie (and I'm a Bill Murray fan) is that getting to the airport by bus requires walking from the stop a long distance down a dark, desolate road. Hadn't they hard of the B15 or the Q10?
Maybe one of the satirical points of the movie is how difficult it is to get to a New York airport without a car, but they overdid it.
Yes, but you seem to be overlooking a minor detail.
If these events didn't happen, THERE'D BE NO MOVIE!!!!!
At the very least, it'd be a real snoozer.
Exactly.
-F.
Perhaps they were just stretching it out for humor and plot value. As a part-time comedy writer for a morning radio show, I say there's nothing wrong with that at all! :)
-F.
I'm riding my weekend Brighton local on the subway down to Kings Highway. Since the front {Quentin Rd} exit is closed, I have to go around the Kings Highway side and walk up to Kings Highway. Unless my train came in particularly early, I get there no matter how fast I ran just in time to see my B2 leave.
1) The B2 is a short route and the driver has a lot more time at the terminals than the other routes as the route is scheduled to be a 20 minute run but at night {usually the point in time where this happens} the route can be completed in 10-12 minutes. The driver should have the morals to wait a couple of minutes especially since the arriving train is right in front of his face and he should be able to conclude that some people from that train are going to want to get on his bus, instead of worrying if he'll have 15 extra minutes to hang around the other end, Kings Plaza, which is closed and desolate at this point in time.
2) Some times the drivers actually leave early!!! The schedule for Sat night from 20:00 to 1:00 is :0, :20, :40. The drivers even confirm this when I ask them, but I still sit in that first seat driver's side and look at the TA's official time to see its :39 and we're already three blocks away from the station.
3) Drivers have witnessed to me that they have left the station 4 minutes late but have still managed to arrive at Kings Plaza 5 minutes early.
I'm enraged by this, what is your opinion???
I agree. I ride the B2 sometimes on Sunday mornings, and the Bus Operators at that time of the day do the same thing.
If it happens, call 1-888-NYCT-BUS and report the matter. If the bus has just left and is still in sight, get the number.
By the way, they're also supposed to bring the bus to the loading stand as soon as they have finished discharging at the drop-off stand (for those who don't know, the drop-off stand is on Avenue R at E. 16th Street, which is also the B31 drop-off/loading stand, while the loading stand is on E. 16th Street south of Avenue R). In my experience, at least on weekends, they never do.
David
I was getting that here all of last week; usually there is at least 5 minutes between arrival and pullout time, but it seemed that not even one minute after my bus arrived, the one I was to transfer to was heading for the hills! A few other people experienced that as well.
I had to run after my bus home one day at the terminal after talking to a friend who is a driver, and the B/O slams on the brakes whe he sees me and bitches me out profoundly as I enter the bus, but I ignored him; he's got a few screws loose anyway and is always gruff.
The next day, I missed the bus on the way to school at the terminal. Elapsed time after arrival: 30 seconds! I had to catch the one going the other way and ride it around until it got to the college. On the bright side, it gave me a chance to study a little more before I got to my final exam so it was a blessing in disguise.
I know everyone really well down at the TA; I have a good mind to tell them what's going on. That is just ridiculous!
-F.
You know what I can't stand? When I am on the N21 at 12:49pm pulling into Roslyn to see the N23 pull away. The N23 isn't supposed to leave until 12:50pm, but he couldn't wait one minute. Then I'm stuck there for an hour waiting for the next one.
>>> Some times the drivers actually leave early!!! <<<
No kidding. This is especially true if the B/O is someone just putting in time without professional pride. The buses that pass my home stop run on hourly schedules, but I have missed buses that have gone by as much as 10 minutes early. There is a place two stops further down the line where the B/O can stop and get a cup of coffee and a doughnut to go, so some of them run early, especially in the morning, to have time to make that stop. When returning home I have to transfer to this bus, and the last bus of the day is scheduled to my transfer stop at 5:35 P.M. The bus I transfer from travels in the same direction and is scheduled to arrive at the stop at 5:30 P.M. Whenever we approach that stop I scan ahead to see if the bus has already left. If I see no bus ahead of us I get off and wait. Otherwise I can ride further and catch another bus after a 20 minute wait at that stop. My problem is if I get off at the first stop, and the bus has already passed, there will not be another bus along to get me to the backup bus in time to catch the last bus of the day on that line, so I am stuck with an expensive taxi bill.
I am sure that the professional B/Os on this board realize that getting ahead of schedule, particularly on the last bus of the day is just as bad as, if not worse than, falling behind schedule.
Tom
In the case of buses consistently early, I would definitely write a letter to the bus company. I was told a long time ago that there is always a reason to be late, but never an excuse for being early.
Absolutely. This is pure ilk and should be brought to attention at once. I would call the TA itself at once AND write them a letter. You may very well get instant results!
-F.
>>> In the case of buses consistently early, I would definitely write a letter to the bus company. <<<
This is a small town with only two buses on my local route. Sometimes drivers are kind enough to drop me off between regular stops and I am familiar enough to them that they recognize me at bus stops, and will wait for me if I am hobbling up to a stop. If I were to make a complaint referencing a time and particular stop, I could expect to be identified by the drivers. I would not like to get on the drivers' s*** list. I would rather get out there early on the morning runs when I can expect the bus to be coming early.
Tom
One guy on the N20 to Hicksville in the morning runs early then stops for 5 minutes with a smoke break at the college off of route 107 in Jericho (SUNY). He smokes outside the bus, fortunately.
How do you know he's running early? Is your watch coordinated to the second with the LI Bus system? At certain times, the bus, depending primarily on the traffic flow and number of passenger stops made, can get ahead of schedule and have to wait for the leaving time at the next timepoint. John, in my opinion, you're always looking to criticize and most times without justifcation.
Absolutely. B/Os who put in time without professionalism, let alone a desire for their job, just shouldn't be employed. Transit is hard enough to sell to the public as a novel idea without some ass behind the wheel making proper service and daily life harder for everyone. There should be a better screening system for transit employees across the board. This garbage is intolerable!
-F.
>>> There should be a better screening system for transit employees across the board. <<<
It seems like every transit bus I ride on has a sign saying the transit agency is looking for operators. Either the jobs are going begging, or the agencies have tough standards.
I get the impression that the LAMTA does not have any beakies checking on the drivers at all. Some of them are quite sloppy.
Examples:
> A B/O pulled up to a stop today where the sign was right at the limit line for the intersection. There were no cars parked on the street in that block or ahead of the bus, but the B/O stopped 18" away from the curb and 10' back from the limit line and opened the front door. As soon as the three people waiting walked back to the bus, boarded and paid their fares, but before they were seated, she started the bus up even though the light was red and drove to the limit line and stopped without regard to what this motion was doing to the passengers who had just boarded.
> The same B/O was drinking juice from a 20 oz. bottle while moving in downtown traffic. Not waiting at an intersection, but while following close behind a car, and tipping the bottle up so she could only see the road with one eye. At least she put the bottle down immediately before making a right turn.
> I have observed several B/Os making perfunctory stops at railroad crossings, without even looking down the track. In one case the B/O was talking with a passenger to give her a transfer or directions, and never looked away from her from the time he slowed to a stop in front of the tracks until he started across them.
> In New York it is illegal for anyone to use a hand held cell phone while driving. Here I have seen several B/Os using cell phones while driving. Usually they are calling their dispatcher, but in one instance I could hear the B/O talking goo goo baby talk to what must have been his very young child on the other end of the phone.
> B/Os carrying on an extended conversation with a passenger (often of the opposite sex) to the point they ignore the stop request signal and pass a stop where a passenger wishes to alight.
Tom
Sheeze...someone needs to put T/As out there to watch those morons! That is just unsafe. As far as the "Now Hiring" signs, maybe there is a part-time quota to be filled. Those signs are all OVER the buses in Blacksburg, which is run by all PT B/Os, mostly Virginia Tech students. In their case, it works out perfectly in many ways.
-F.
I've seen all of the above in my years of riding Long Island Bus.
The time on the farebox is two minutes early. The TA intentionally sets that clock early hoping that operators use that time as an indication of the correct time. It is not, and it's not used. The correct time will be given by the console dispatcher after all messages via radio-phone or public address system.
Regarding bringing the bus into the stand at a route terminal- true unless the driver is on a personal break.
I thought that the farebox clock was kept about two minutes slow so that the bus would not depart too early.
This reminds me of a fill-in drive one day. I was walking over to my stop, my usual 4 minutes before the bus is supposed to arrive, and it's already there. I had figured it was the run that's supposed to arrive there 2 minutes before, so I figured I had caught the earlier run. The only reason I even caught it is because as I was crossing (aginst the light...), I saw the run number in the box, and since I knew the only other route that stopped there had run numbers in the 20's at that point, so I started to run, and it only stopped because someone else saw me running! Once I got on, I saw the run number in the windshield reflection, and it was the bus that was supposed to arrive 4 minutes from then! But, selfish as I am, I was prepared for a fun ride. It was, being as the trip time was cut by a third! Anyway, on the way back home, I decided not to go for the regular route home, since I always get the same run on the way home, I didn't want to chance missing the run, so I took another way home (which actually got me where I was going 20 minutes early!), and when I walked past where I usually get off, 20 minutes early, guess who was there? The earlier incident wasn't too suprising, since it wasn't overlapping another run. But, this one was, being that buses run every 10 minutes at this point. He would have had to have jumped another bus, by far, and this doesn't make sense, since he would have then been slowed down picking up the earlier run's passengers... so I was thinking, the only way for this to make sense, is either a bunch of people were not riding the line this day, which makes no sense at all. Or maybe somebody rigged the bus? (9528, somewhere from January to May 2000...) Hmm.
I was told the farebox clock is not official and to not go by it. Thats why there's a big ass clock at the crew window or get a time check from console.. What is 39 after to you may be 41 after to the b/o and the TA.
But the purpose of making it 2 minutes late was to make drivers late, so there's no incidents where the driver's early-I can understand that-so they should mandate that they go by TA time.
>>> I was told the farebox clock is not official and to not go by it <<<
What ever happened to the idea that I read about on Sub Talk more than a year ago of the TA issuing atomic watches to standardize the time throughout the system? Was that just an unfunded wish?
Tom
Huh? Atomic watches? Sounds more like something out of "Dr. Who" than a realistic TA solution...
-F.
Not so. The atomic clock has been in use for many years, and is also used by the government as the standard timekeeping device. (www.time.gov)
Also, there are atomic clocks for the home selling for as little as 30 bucks.
Wow...exactly how do they work? I'd like to know more...
-F.
>>> exactly how do they work? I'd like to know more...
What are commonly called atomic clocks or watches automatically receive the signals the U.S. Government sends from the official atomic clock and updates the display (adjusted to the local time zone), so the user always has the accurate time. Most portable clocks also have some kind of conventional timekeeping device which keeps time when you are in an area where there is no signal, such as the subway. Virtually all new cellular telephone handsets have this feature and display the correct time when turned on, getting the time signal from the cellular network which in turn is receiving the official time signal.
Tom
Oh, very cool; I never knew cell phones had an atomic clock! What a neat system...how did it get its name? I muct know more!
-F.
>>> I muct know more! <<<
Here is more than you would ever want to know about time and its measurement.
Tom
Also check out http://www.time.gov/ and set your watch.
C
They also have a cool program you can download to set the clock on your computer: http://boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/service/time-computer.html (sorry, don't know how to do HTML links)
Cool; thanks Tevi, I'll check that out!
I found it interesting on the R-143 the clock was set accurately, within 1 second of my watch, which is set to NIST time.
Whoa...nice info! Thanks!
-F.
An early bus is probably worse than a late one. It is one thing to leave promptly, it is another to leave early. If a driver's only way of ensuring on time arrival is to leave earlier, he should report it so schedules can be adjusted.
The other reason is that the intervals should be evenly split so that TA will not use "empty buses" as an excuse to cut runs.
The 3 buses below were all used in the 1974 (made for TV?) movie "Smile, Jenny, You're Dead" which starred David Janssen (the original Fugitive on TV) and a very young Jodie Foster.
Santa Monica # 4577 - T6H-4521A 0506, delivered 12/69 White & Blue
Santa Monica # 5357 - TDH-5303 6145, delivered 11/67 White & Blue
San Francisco Municipal Development Corp. #4004 - Flxible 111CC-C3 54039 delivered 1969. This bus was Orange and Brown.
The fleet / unit numbers I noted from the movie and used Production Lists for the remaining information.
WOW!!! Where can I find this movie?
-F.
I saw it on a movie channel that is part of "Movie Central". From what I know this is the movie package for Satellite and Digital Cable subscribers in Western Canada. It was formerly Superchannel.
I don't know if it's available for rent or not.
Since when were San Franciscobuses orange and brown???
The 4000 series Flxibles were delivered in maroon and light yellow. Only one, 4009, got repainted to the "Landor" scheme of white with orange/yellow stripes.
Sorry... either it was a dark scene or my memory has darkened!
Do anybody have a $63 Unlimted and the $120 Unlimted Wrappers?
I'd be glad to mail you one of each wrapper for the low, low price of $175. (Yes, I'll be out $8, but two 30-days for the price of two Fun Passes is a good deal by anyone's standards.)
Ok. BUT I was just want to look at it. Can you scan it by anychance?
Sorry, my only MetroCard purchases have been in the amounts of $4, $15, and $17.
Earlier today I saw ENY RTS#8688 on Liberty Avenue with no
rear license plate. What is the penalty, if any, for this?
Is a cop even gonna notice a NYCTA bus without a plate?
I have driving buses with out plates many times. I just put on the Defect cards and keep on drving.
Robert
Aren't buses required to have plates by New York State law? If so, couldn't you personally be ticketed for operating a vehicle without them?
I've seen QS buses with just the plate number (not the official plate itself) where the plate would be.
>>> couldn't you personally be ticketed for operating a vehicle without [licence plates]? <<<
The lack of registration is chargeable to the owner of a vehicle, as a vehicle defect, rather than the driver. With a private vehicle the driver is the one identified and given a ticket. With a transit bus, the ticket would also be given to the driver, but should be the responsibility of the company, and not chargeable to the driver's record. As a practical matter, a policeman will probably not ticket a transit bus for no license plate, but probably would ticket a tour or charter coach.
Tom
Absolutely. Makes sense to me!
-F.
For a TA bus - doubt if there's any penalty at all. In fact back in 1981 when the TA first put their 1980 lift equippped Grumman 870's in serice many of them at MABSTOA (Maybe TA as well) went into service w/o license plates or radios.
Wayne
I will try to contact the ENY Maintenance Foreman about this.
Yesterday when I was trying to ride the L-Train, I needed to buy a Metrocard. When I put $2.00 into the machine to get a $3.00 Metrocard, the damn thing goes back to the main screen and said there was no money put in. I kicked the damn machine, but that didn't help. So I went to talk to the guy at the both, and he said there is nothing he could do. He said call company if you have any problems.
The machine number was 0254 at the Myrtle Av./ Wyckoff Av.
Station.
Sure its only $2.00, but what if I had put in a $20.00 bill instead? I would have probably came back with a sledge hammer and make it give back my money(LOL!) Now I have worries about buying my Metrocards from the machines.
Has this ever happened to anyone?
B60- RTS TMC #8694
All 85'GMC's must Die!
-Jay
Now I know why I use credit cards whenever they're an option.
I don't know why you specifically worry about buying cards from the machines. Couldn't an unscrupulous S/A do the same -- pocket $2 and claim you hadn't given him a penny?
Good luck recovering the money, in any case.
Actually I saw an LIRR TVM charge somebody's card and never printed out a ticket.
I'm sure it happens, but credit cards have dispute mechanisms. In general, when it comes to a charge that was made with no signature (like at MVM's, gas stations, and the like), the bank will almost invariably side with the customer (more for potential fraud reasons than anything else). In response, the TA might "lock out" the card in question -- but if the card only exists in the machine's imagination, or the card was purchased with a stolen credit card, there's nothing wrong with that.
Come to think of it, if the transaction is completed but no card is ever issued, ask for a receipt and bring it to 370 Jay. I suspect that they'll confirm that the "card" in question (which doesn't actually exist) was never used, lock it out, and reimburse you. That doesn't help if the machine swallows your cash and forgets about it or if the machine somehow dispenses your card to the next customer, who doesn't look a gift horse in the mouth. I'd prefer to have the additional protections that come with credit cards (along with the convenience and the 1% rebate).
I wonder if this is a system wide problem?
I got off the train at Whitehall Street this morning, and a woman was complaining that the Metrocard machine at that station took her money and didn't add any time to her card.
How did you try to get a $3.00 card with $2.00? Were you using coins in addition to that? What did the little display that tells you how much you put in say?
Here's what happened:
When I was about to enter my third $1.00 bill, the little display said nothing was entered, then it just reset to the main screen. I check the bottom slot but I didn't get back my $2.00. That piece of crap must of forgot to read the amount of money I put in.
I usually buy myself a 2-fair($3.00) pass when I'm traveling the subway, now I can't trust these machines anymore.There's no point of calling the company, since calling them will probably add S2.00 to my family's phone bill. Going through all of that is not worth it IMO.
-Jay
Coins dude. If it doesn't work, it'll fly back down to the pit.
I regret you had a problem with the MVM. Call 212-Metrocard in NYC or 800-Metrocard (toll free) outside of NYC. Give therm the number on the front of the machine (ie 0195, 1285, etc.) This number is shown in white on a black background.
After the machine ate your money did it then display a yellow/orange No Bills accepted at this time?
There is a known problem with homeless jamming the bill slot and then returning to collect the money. The next time, please go to the booth and give the Station Ageny (S/A) the machine number. While the S/A cant give you the money, they can call in the machine.
Have the S/A check their computer for error messages from the MVM. Tell them to check equipment status on the main menu and then to select Automatic Vending Machines .
You see, the only reason why any of this happened is because you keep complaining about all the old buses at Fresh Pond. Stop complaining, and the vending machines will treat you better.
BIG AL
Yes. you are right. FP has cursed me for mocking it so much.
Merry Christmas
-Jay
Article on Transportation notes that the mall has relocated the bus stop to the middle of the parking lot in front of a sump. Supposedly temporary until a stop is built north side of the ring road. Merchants and Upscale customers didn't like crossing in front of rowdy bus passengers waiting for their buses. Car visitors incomes supposedly 100K and up since the mall was renovated.
Even with stop on ring road, passengers will have to enter a crosswalk and go through a garage to get to the mall.
Article mentions the Buffalo Galleria Mall incident several years ago, where a clerk was killed crossing a 7 lane road to get to the mall since transit buses weren't allowed on the private property. Only difference here is that the passengers only have to cross 2 lanes of traffic and walk through a garage.
I don't know how to set up a link but go to www.newsday.com (Sunday 12/16/01). Look for a weekly column on transportation in the main section of the paper.
Yup I had a feeling. Walt Whitman is such a snobby ass mall anyways, it doesn't even have a RADIO SHACK or a drugstore. They don't care about bus riders, so that's why I am boycotting the mall. The mall is very popular with the North Shore snobs.
Somebody's gonna find their Mercedes all scratched up tomorrow. :-0
why dont they bus bulid a bus station near the mall? This way, commuters have easy access to the Suffolk,HART and MTA-LI bus connections?
Hopefully the mall will build the new bus stop near the garage so at least riders don't have to deal with the elements. Personally I feel Walt Whitman mall should be sued, or an injunction issued by the Suffolk County government to force the location back to curbside until the new bus stop is built. I know it's private property but screw that bus riders have rights and I for one will not support the racist, classist institution known as Walt Whitman mall.
As far as a stop by Rt 110, that is simply insane and be stopped immediately.
If I was a legislator I would propose a bill to force malls to have equal access to all customers
Bus routes, pedestrain access and other transit access should be equally accessible. Transit will have an immenent domain to serve the mall where-ever it wants. Any malls refusing to abide by these rules will be fined $500,000 each day until compliance.
I agree we had a case in NJ at the Bergen Mall. This mall is always filled with Seniors but Simon didn't want buses dropping off at the mall.
I think NJ Transit said okay we will bypass your mall and take the customers to Garden State Plaza. I guess the stores didn't like that and i think the buses are still running.
Unfortuately the three ops who service the WWM don't have that option. There is no other large mall in the immediate area.
Were these buses ever in ENY Depot, or were they always at KB? Did ENY ever had the 8899-8938, or did they from somewhere else?
-Jay
Were these buses ever in ENY Depot, or were they always at KB? Did ENY ever had the 8899-8938, or did they come from somewhere else?
-Jay
These buses were in ENY when they came there in 1996. Bus 8899 was in Gun Hill at the time. In 1998, buses 8924 and 8926 went to Mother Hale( I know because I saw them on Park Av South when I was a t Baruch College (Park Av South and 18th St Building). Then buses 8930 and 8937 went to Kingsbridge. I believe 8937 was first then 8930. ENY did have 8898 but that went back to GH.
Ray
I'm sorry but I must correct you on that one. Those odd-ball 8900's were among the 150 buses that were sent to Atlanta for the 1996 Olympic Games. Upon their return to NYC, they were sent directly to Kingsbridge Depot and not ENY.
Mark
When a bus starts, there is a buzzing noise that remains on for a few seconds. Pushing the accelerator and racing the motor turns it off a quicker than it otherwise go away.
Not being nor ever being a B/O, I describe it as the buzz begins when the knob (run, day, nite) is turned. The buzz gets stronger when the start button is pushed.
I hope I'm describing it correctly. I'll probably get chewed out for not being exact.
Michael
Taking a chance in Washington, DC
Probably what you're hearing is the low air warning, which goes off as the busses air reaches a certain PSI.
Peace,
ANDEE
It certainly makes sense. But wouldn't that mean a bus dumps it air like a train? I don't hear a whoosh when a bus is turned off. Am I missing something?
Michael
Most don't dump air. It slowly decompresses.
Peace,
ANDEE
The buzzer is an audible indicator warning not to shift from neutral into any gears. There is also a visible red flashing "Do Not Shift" lamp on the gear select box. I believe this is only for the newer electronic-controlled transmissions.
The air compressor governer will indeed dump air, but not when the bus is shut off. The air is dumped usually between 130 and 150 pounds per square inch, or PSI.
Bingo.
-F.
Buses slowly drop pressure when turned off; they more or less "air out' by themselves, hence the reason why the suspension gradually lowers when one is parked. Depending on the condition of the air bags and lines, some drop more quickly than others!
-F.
Speaking of buzzes, I've noticed on some of NJ Transit's Metro D's, when the front door opens, there is a loud buzz that drops in pitch then fades away after a few seconds.
So ...?
saw her on the S79 route today. She was orignally assigned to East New york,guess her new home is Yukon(one step away from the scrap)
I saw that bus in the layup inside the Yukon Depot while i was ready to work with the drive this past friday. also i saw #2260 on track 12 inside the Depot.
Peace
David J.
mabstoa tco op@aol.com
This bus was at ENY at one time.
Don't you mean 2270?
#2270 S61
Yukon has the following
2270 - 1981 RTS
2660 - 1982 RTS
NOT 2260 - Scrapped long time ago
Today, I saw 4014 on the B-40 ,of all lines.
I was talking to a driver on the b37 today, and he is telling me that the B64,B4 and B8 are going to Jackie Gleason becasue Ulmer Park is closing. I asked him why the B8 and he said that East New York is BURSTING with extra buses. If this is true, send the B82 back to Ulmer park or split the route again. Is Ulmer going all express and whats the rumor with the X28 and X27 operating on weekends?
B37-888-New Flyer
b64-9104-NOVABUS
None of what the driver stated is true.
David
Not so. The fact is, that ENY is bursting at the seams.
East New York may well be bursting at the seams. However, none of what the driver in Gleason is quoted as having said about Ulmer Park Closing or any of the other route transfers is true. Bank on it.
David
They have been saying the UP is going all Express for as long as I was a driver, and maybe even longer.
Robert
They just completed a major renevation on Ulmer Park. Why would they close it. To convert it to an express line depot for 3 routes is out of the question. What will happen to the local routes.
Yes Gleason can take the B-1,B-4 and B-64
Flatbush is full so what will happen to the B-3,B-36 and B-74
Could East New York take the B-6 since it is busting at the seams.
Believe it Ulmer Park will remain open.
BTW the only way i see Ulmer Park becoming an express line depot only if the TA takes over the Command Bus Routes and I do not see that happening at this time.
Thank You
It's a Van Hool. A big, boxy, completely ugly Van Hool.
Van Hool or any European bus rules!
Go Eurobuses!
Not when they stick out like a sore thumb on a route that barely exists. Trust me bus 1694 was much better as a part of the Coach USA fleet.
When is the fare going up? I heard it was .50 more?
Joe Malinconico, the Star-Ledger's resident transit reporter, wrote an article today about Gloria Smith, NJT driver in Camden County, on the occaision of her winning the Eastern Paralyzed Veterans' award for "exceptional service and sensitivity to senior citizens and passengers with disabilities."
Her riders get bagels and banter
>>> article today about Gloria Smith <<<
Memo from Management:
Remember CYA. Send her a warning letter with a copy to her personnel file about unnecessary conversation while driving!
Tom
For those who emailed and responded to the last message, your newsletters went out today. They were held because a second edition was forthcoming. Your envelope will arrive opened and re-taped. None were sent folded :)
Enjoy
This past sunday when i was ready to go to work with my driver Run 003 on B9 around 0800am to pull out the bus. Me & the Driver walk near 36-38st Yard & i saw #950 bad accident in the front right next to TMC RTS #4662. My Driver know the guy who died behind the wheel on #4662. Both are untouch & still there right outside near the yard.
BTW i took both pictures.
Peace
David J.
mabstoa tco op@aol.com
Enjoy!
This Photo was taken back in early 2000, when the bus was brand new!
Regards & Happy Holidays,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Instant Message: Metro D 3700
That bus does smile at you!
It sure does; it looks like a Pokemon character smile!
-F.
Now THAT is a good-looking bus. You'd never know it was a New Flyer! Is that totally an in-house design or was there some help?
-F.
What's the deal with the 4 number run box?
Saw it again, same run, same place, this time got a pic but it will need to be developed...
I look forward to seeing it; thanks!
-Fred
Sorry I forgot to post here earlier--
the photo contest winners have been announced
-Dave
Do anybody know where can I find the Orion2 CNG's? Do they run to Rossevelt Field Mall too?
Yes, they run on the Hub Shuttle (N93). I have a picture of one that I took last week, you can email me if you want it. Does anybody know what engine the Orion 2 CNG uses?
ok. Wait a MINUTE! The N93 runs Orion2 CNG's? Ouch! When I over there I allways see a 1997 Orion5 CNG's on N93 and once #623 on N93.
They run all types of equipment on the N93, usually Orion 2's, Orion V diesels, and the dreaded Thomas bus.
on the N91 there was once a orion 2(for which the driver was not sure how to operate it)-they occasionally uses Orion V diesels and i once saw Gilligs on the line.
B16-587-Orion V-CNG
[i once saw Gilligs on the line]
The N91 used many of the 35 foot Gilligs LI Bus had right before the new Orion V CNG's 288-358 replaced all of the Gilligs a while back.
The 35-foot Gilligs were numbers 500-519. They weren't all that old when M.T.A. L.I. Bus scrapped them, but they're making this big push now towards CNG. The biggest atrocity was when M.T.A. L.I. bus spent all that money refurbishing buses #854 and #898 (both 1978 Flxibles) only to scrap them a short time later.
The Flxibles probably had longer miles between breakdowns then those crappy Cummins. They should've kept the Flxibles and gotten rid of those Cummins Orions.
A Thomas TransLiner was running the N91 once. It was #707
Had a very pleasant suprise on the 171 from GWB to Garden State Plaza today. The 11:15am bus was a brand new MCI. I like the new paint scheme. And man was the ride great. The engine was very fast and smooth (I think it was a DD Series 60). It sounds like a Series 50 but smoother and faster. Real comfortable ride. And the stop bell has a real space age sound. A fantastic ride along Rt.4 to the mall.
Going back from GSP I had a Flxible with the 6V-92. NJT buses are pretty quiet tho (well maybe except for the Cummins). MTA's buses are much noisier. NJT has every right to raise the fare, their buses give a great ride and are under-priced. Only $2.55 from GWB to GSP, a ride on an NYCT MCI cruiser is $3.
I also got a photo of it. I like the new large easier to read destination sign, and the side wheelchair door.
Again - if you went into Borders, you may have seen me at the reg - I was wearing a maroonish-shirt and blue jeans.
Wow, what a great experience, especially for the Flxible ride...how was it? Wish I was there!
-F.
I beg to differ on the issue of the new MCIs. Ok, I agree that the paint looks great. But the seats are configured in many of these buses so that they don't match up evenly, and many buses have at least one set of seats that don't have windows!
And as a regular rider (monthly passholder) on the NJT 165, 166 and 168 routes, all I can say is that you were fortunate to have gotten a great ride. Several of these new buses had air conditioning and overheating problems this past summer - and they were only introduced in the spring of 2001! I hope that this winter isn't too harsh. I don't think that these buses would be able to take it! Of course, I hope that I am wrong about that.
I hope that your future excursions to GSP are as pleasant as your last one. Just make sure that there is a window by the window seat if you want to look out.
The seat layout is identical to the MC-9s. MCI only has one spacing layout for a 49-seat non-lav coach. They are intentionally staggered.
The only issue is, the seats on the curbside near the wheelchair door suffer from wider window pillars.
[The seat layout is identical to the MC-9s.]
I haven't studied the seat layouts that carefully yet, but I am sure the seat layout on the new D4000's is not identical to that on the MC-9's, mainly because on the D-4000's there is extra legroom between several seats on the driver's side directly opposite the wheelchair door. On the MC-9's, there is no such extra legroom. If you crave extra legroom when riding a Jersey D4000, those are the seats to go for!
First scene: I'm coming out of the garage on E. Tremont Av near Castle Hill Av. heading westbound for I-895. It's approximatly 2315 hrs. I see, in the eastbound lanes, NYCT #539 being towed. I ask myself: what is this bus doing being towed on E. Tremont Av. at this time of the night, and what is it doing being towed so far from the nearest Casey Stengel route in the area (that being the Q44)?
Second scene: About fifteen minutes later, I've just exited I-87 northbound at 138th Street. I wind up on the center lanes of the overpass at 138th and Exterior (the service road to the Deegan Expressway/I-87). In front of me on the right is a NYBS D4500 (couldn't see the number due to the cars in front of me and the angle). It didn't take long for me or the other motorists around me to figure out that the B/O of this bus forgot that he was driving a vehicle a lot bigger than the usual GMC Classic, for the B/O not only got a head start of us onto the Madison Av. Bridge but in the process cut off several vehicles behind him, causing major confusion.
Opinions are welcome here.
CS Orion#539 was probably being towed to Zerega.
This SAturday afternoon, I've got to get to LaGuardia Airport. Assuming I take the "N" train up to Astoria, is there a relatively painless way to get to LGA via surface transit? Thanks.
Don't think so-------IIRC you have to go to 74th Roosevelt via the 7 or E,F, etc and take a TCC route (Q38?).
74th St-roosevelt Av for either the E,F,G,R, or V service. Connection is avaible to TCC Q47 or Q33 route to the airport.
[Connection is avaible to TCC Q47 or Q33 route to the airport.]
Keep in mind that the Q47 takes you to the Delta Shuttle to Boston and D.C. only. For all other airlines and other Delta service, take the Q33.
Take any subway line to 125th Street and take the M60 Bus.
Except the 1, where you'll find the M60 at 116th (or 110th, if you prefer). The M60 turns off Broadway at 120th.
Sure. Get off at Astoria Boulevard and catch the M60 downstairs. (If you prefer, you can also find the M60 at 125th Street on the 4/5/6, 125th Street on the 2/3, 125th Street on the A/B/C/D, and 116th Street on the 1. Of course, then you'll be stuck with 125th Street and Triboro Bridge traffic.)
Rush hours, expect crowding and delays. Other times, the Queens part of the route moves fast.
The other bus option is the E/F/R/V (G nights and weekends) to Roosevelt Avenue or the 7 local to 74th Street with a transfer to the Q33.
Straight from the MTA website. HOE TO GET TO LAGAURDIA
Peace,
ANDEE
Note that this web site underplays the Q33 because it's not NYCT-operated.
M60.
The M1, M6, M27, M50, M104, and M42 have been affected by the events of 9/11. They now stop short of their former terminals, e.g. South Ferry or United Nations. I'm sure the TA has created new schedules but they're not on the MTA web page. The schedules still show the buses going to the former terminals.
Do you think the schedule is the same at the unaffected end and modifications to the new terminals? Example The departure times on the M104 haven't changed at 129th street but the departure times at 42nd and 2nd avenue have been modified. Or do you think the entire schedule has been changed?
I'm coming to NY this weekend and will be riding the M6 late at night. I want to know if the departure times from Central Park remain the same as the schedule on the MTA web page.
Michael
I'm sure the schedules have changed. The TA is very slow when it comes to posting new schedules. On the subway front, the new 12/16 timetables aren't up yet, and we 1/2/3 riders still have no idea about the (very much) modified schedules that have been in effect since 9/19.
My guess is that the schedules have changed, but the first and last buses of the day run approximately when they did before 9/11. Call the TA information line to verify. If you find that you've missed the last bus of the evening, you can always take the subway.
Just read Newsday On Line Edition and read that they may be a strike tomorrow on Jamica Buses,Queens Surfice and Triboro Coach.
Any information on this.
Thank You
Saw it mentioned coming up on channel 5 tonight. If they do go on strike will the Queens div of NYCT have a sympathy strike, as well as LI Bus? If it's just the DOT's then there will still be confusion though, expect alot of extra riders on NYCT express routes and the 7 and Queens Blvd IND.
No strike today, but maybe tommorow. Stay tuned to this Bat Channel.
Mr rt__:^)
So there isn't a settlement? I only know that I saw them running today, and I haven't heard anything new on the news.
• I was on a Q17 bus approaching the 41st Avenue bus stop. This stop is used by a lot of people because of the transfer to the Q44/20 across Kissena Blvd, the nearby LIRR station, and the 7 train (for some, myself included, it's faster to walk from there to the station instead of riding the bus through the Main Street traffic). Anyway, the bus stops a short distance from the bus stop; there's traffic in front of the bus blocking the bus stop. I was waiting near the front door while someone waiting one step down into the rear stairwell says "Back door!" I reply, "We're not at the bus stop yet!" This got a chuckle from the bus driver.
• I was leaving the Queens College campus Monday evening. I see a bus approaching along Horace Harding. It's an Orion. I immediately think to myself, "That's the Q88 coming. I'll take it to the V train." I run across the L.I.E. and arrive at the bus stop before the bus. I know that sometimes the Queens Village Depot sends its express buses on local routes like the Q88. Anyway, when the bus pulls into the bus stop, I see the bus's number: 517. Casey Stengel decals on the side of the bus. I'm thinking, "What's a CS bus doing on a QV route?" Anyway, I get to the V train platform at Woodhaven Boulevard and the first V train that passes doesn't stop, so I took the R that followed it instead.
Heads up, folks! "Speed" is going to be shown on FX at 5:30 PM EST this Sunday evening. If you don't already have it or have never seen it, get the popcorn and your VCR ready!
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
At the time of filming Santa Monica Transit Had A Bus #2525, It was retired shortly after the preier of the film. #10 Line (Shown On Headsign In Film) is a real route.
That's too funny. I wonder if it was because of the number's significance in the film or just old age?
-F.
The real Santa Monical Municipal Bus Lines (as opposed to the ficticious Santa Monica Intercity Bus Lines depicted in Speed) never had a bus by the number of 2525. Since the 1950s, that system has numbered its buses based on seating capacity. They have never had any buses with such a small capacity; over the years, most of their buses have been numbered from the low 4000s through the low 5000s, with the newer electic TIDE shuttle buses somewhere in the 2000s and the New Flyers in the 3800s.
Also, the bus in Speed is signed up for a Route 33. Obviously, this Route 33 acted as an impostor for the real SMMBL Route 10, which travels between Santa Monica and Downtown LA via I-10. However, there is a bus Line 33 which does go between Santa Monica and Downtown LA, but that's the Venice Blvd local line operated by MTA.
Today I saw 2033 on 42nd street with Training Bus sign from Castleton. Is this the one of a kind Training Bus or are other DL3's used for training?
Whats your favorite European bus? I like the new Van Hools. Not that fond of Neoplane and their Cityliner.
Mines would have to be denOusten and Alexander Equipment.
Regards & Happy Holidays,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I agree; I like the ALX 200 as it is a cross-pond cousin to the Thomas SLF 200. I also like the Dennis Dart, and the MAN buses are interesting as well.
-F.
I will no longer be the "Terror of Madison Avenue." Had to back out of the Liberty offer for a couple of reasons.
So, thank god I didn't turn down Rockland yet, I will be the "Terror of The Tappan Zee."
Thank you all again for your support!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
You'll be right at home there, Trevor... those MCIs are all-NJT from the inside.
The 9A is probably the best "cruising" route as you make that long jaunt up and down 9W through Alpine. The 11A is probably the biggest pain in the butt - lots of zones, lots of weird turns.
Either way, Terror suite you fine Trevor :-)
Good luck at Red & Tan!
"Tappan Zee"? Sounds like an old stove from the 50s mixed with a diecast car I had when I was little...LOL!
-F.
I actually have a Tappan stove :)
What Trevor saying is the Tappan Zee Bridge. That is a bridge that go's from Rockland to Westchester Countys
Oh, i see. Thanks!
-F.
Proposed Service Revision
Astoria W Service
Implementation January 2002
Change the Astoria Line to all Local Service with the N and the W making all local stops in both directions (weekdays 6 Am to 9 PM )
This is due to overcrowding on the N in the affected service area
Steve
FDNY
I saw this model posted at ebay-this looks real sharp. Im not sure if it is a ho scale or o scale but anynoe interested in it, its there. go to keyword-City bus.
B4-9317-NOVABUS
B49-5082-NOVABUS
Tomorrow might be a good day for "Metro to open doors" to taxi users. The DC cabbies want to go on strike due to Mayor Williams wanting the fares to become meter based. I hope Metro gains new riders tomorrow if it happens because they could use the revenue.
The sidewalks will be safer to walk on, too since the cabs wont be all over them.
Great point! At least a bus doesn't wind up there..unless the B/O is on crack. Of course, then the bus would be on one too...in the sidewalk. Pardon the pun...LOL!
-F.
Damn straight! Anything to keep the good old WMATA in business. Maybe if riderships increase they won't be so quick as to retire the Flxes as early; that is the case in Blacksburg with their upcoming new bus order as they will run out of buses if they are simply replacing and not adding to their fleet.
-F.
Last Friday night, I saw Academy Express #152 on 34 St with the destination sign set to "Rock n roll." Is this a novelty item for deadheading, a shuttle to the Hammerstein Ballroom, or an actual town in New Jersey?
Whoops... Atlantic Express.
Sounds to me like Dr. Johnny Fever moved out of Cincinnati and is alive and well in NY as a bus driver...LOL!!!
-F.
No info from the news on a settlement, the latest they say is they are still at the bargaining table. DOT bus operators definately deserve equal pay and benefits as NYCT bus drivers. And often DOT routes are more crowded, plus the drivers have to deal with inferior equipment (like at Green and Triboro).
The deadline is midnight (that's less than an hour away). Funny how the news waits till the last minute to air the story. Well good luck to all the DOT ops hopefully the DOT will give in and finally give drivers equal treatment as NYCT.
If there is a strike tomorrow, expect the subway to be much more crowded, plus additional loads on NYCT bus routes.
Private providers are hard pressed to pay more salaries since they are relying on the profit made by the contracts with the DOT. NYCT, on the other hand, as other major agencies that receive federal funds, have more capabilities to pay higher wage rates and get the newer equipment.
At least this time there WAS a warning on the news that this might happen. During the eighties, there were at least two wildcat strikes that hit the Queens privates with absolutely NO mention on the traffic reports those mornings.
At the time I lived in College Point, which is heavily reliant on QS feeder service to the subway in Flushing. There were mobs of angry people waiting long periods at Q25/34 and 65 stops unaware of any work stoppage, until an official in a QS car pulled up to the curb and told them. He then pulled away fast before his vehicle was trashed.
A number of my co-workers also used the Queens privates and were likewise delayed. Our management allowed no dispensation whatsoever for lateness or absence. They didn't buy any excuses about a bus strike because there was nothing about it mentioned on the news, and the subways, commuter railroads and TA buses were running normally.
Even worse, another wildcat hit during the day, so commuters who rode their normal morning bus found none to take home. Flushing was a madhouse. Dispatchers at Stengel didn't add any buses to the Q20, the only route to College Point run by the TA. A lot of people were utterly confused- one woman was amazed to learn in the absence of the 25/34, she could take the TA's Q17 to her home (of fifty years!) at Kissena and Oak. She never knew the 17 existed- ALWAYS took the 25/34.
At least, most areas served by QS routes out of Flushing are also served by TA routes, long walk and crowding notwithstanding. People trying to bus home from the Jackson Heights and Queens Plaza subways were really up a creek.
Anyway, as of this morning we dodged the bullet- for now.
IF YOU ARE INTO COLLECTING TRANSIT MEMORABILLIA PLEASE CHECK OUT MY E BAY AUCTIONS. I HAVE NEW OFFICIALLY LICENSED MTA MERCHANDISE FOR SALE. COPY AND PASTE THE FOLLOWING INTO YOUR WEB BROWSER. OR GO TO WWW.EBAY.COM AND DO A SEARCH FOR MY PRODUCTS, USE SEARCH TOOL / SEARCH BY SELLER / VINTAGEDEALS@CS.COM
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STORY HERE
Peace,
ANDEE
[The three bus lines (QSC, cTc & Jamaica) carry about 116,000 riders locally and on express routes into Manhattan.]
That's incorrect, as QSC carries about 100,000 a day by itself !
Mr rt__:^)
Thurston- can you rank the Queens Private lines by passenger loads and by numbner of buses and route miles. Is Queens Surface the leader?
As a MTA Long Island Bus Bus Operator, I'd like to note some things about leaving terminals and timepoints early; this is known locally as "running hot." Most drivers are professional and run as close to schedule as possible. There is no valid reason an Operator should leave a terminal or timepoint early under normal circumstances. I say normal because there are exceptions. If your leader, or the bus in front of you, has experienced a breakdown or other mishap, the Command Center, or radio dispatcher, may call you and request you "take a few minutes" or run earlier than your scheduled time. This is to hopefully alleviate some of the overcrowding that could occur when a breakdown or mishap occurs and and is done to assist in returning the schedule to as near normal as possible. MTA Long Island Bus has, for years, posted signs suggesting that its riders get to the bus stop at least five minutes ahead of the scheduled bus arrival; this is done so that if it is necessary to have a bus depart earlier than normal, the riders will not miss that bus. However, from personal experience, I believe some riders don’t read or pay attention to the signs (just as they ignore the posted rule against eating and drinking on the bus, then complain about the garbage on the bus - another possible topic for lengthy discussion). Here’s an example.
A Bus Operator leaves a terminal or timepoint on time; he is expected to do the same at the next timepoint. Between timepoints, it is possible to get ahead of “theoretical” schedule. Let’s say a bus is due to depart at 2:00pm, and leave the next timepoint at 2:16pm. The distance between timepoints is four miles. Theoretically, at the two-mile or halfway distance mark, the bus should depart at 2:08pm. However, good traffic conditions and light passenger loading may have the bus passing the midway point at 2:06pm, which is perfectly “legal” in bus operations. The Bus Operator’s only responsibility and duty is to leave his next timepoint at 2:16pm. This is another reason for suggesting to the riders that they arrive at their stop five minutes early.
As to the matter of watches and clocks, on our system the “Command Time” is repeated over the radio quite often. This is the time to which Bus Operators must adhere. The watches worn by riders may not have the same time used by our system and can result in a rider missing their bus. Be it a Rolex or a Timex, if the rider’s watch does not agree with our official “Command Time,” that watch is useless.
Last, extra buses. Most afternoons, extra, unscheduled buses are placed into service on routes experiencing heavy passenger loads, such as the N21 or N22. These obviously do not appear on the schedule, and are normally operated between lengthy gaps in the regular schedule. Sometimes, the Bus Operator is instructed to use his discretion as to when to place the bus into service (or this will be determined by the Command Center or Dispatcher assigned to that area) to assist his follower (the following bus). This week, for instance, I have operated the N21 extra bus. From lengthy operating experience on that line, I generally enter service from Rosyln (going to Flushing) at about 6:00pm, six minutes ahead of the following bus (due to leave Roslyn at 6:06pm but sometimes late due to its having to come all the way from Hicksville, about ten miles). Normally, I’ll carry over 50 passengers to Flushing - a great help to both my follower and the passengers. However, the extra bus presents another problem. Sometimes, passengers accuse Bus Operators of running early, when in actuality the bus has not been scheduled in the first place. Sometimes - you don’t win! Run late - the riders complain; put in an extra or run early (whether justified or not), they also complain!
It is my belief that most of the posters to BusTalk may not be Bus Operators or even involved in any way in transit operations, except as riders and on BusTalk as complainers. But before making accusations, or judging someone or an operation, have the decency to get your facts straight. Those not directly involved in transit operations are totally unaware of what goes on behind the scenes. Yes, mistakes are made, but who in their lives hasn’t made any mistakes. Until you’ve actually walked in someone’s shoes, no one has the right to make a judgment.
Re: Trash on buses. I agree with you on this. I know all riders don't litter, but many do. I never could understand why people would complain endlessly about dirty buses/subway when the eat/drink and leave behind their garbage. Of course there's going to be rats running around the subway if the riders continue to provide food for them.
On the scheduling issue: I realize the typical rider probably won't know about extra buses being "inserted" into service, but too often I think riders are quick to blame the B/O when a bus is late. Common sense should tell these riders that their are many factors that can throw a bus (or train) off schedule. It's like a no-win situation, because I can't tell you how many times I'd hear passengers on the subway complaining when a train had the holding lights, red signal etc.
I'm not a B/O, but I do have a basic understanding of scheduling, etc. I think overall you all (and T/O & C/R) do a great job.
Wayne
Thank you. And so do the T/Os and C/Rs. And try to explain to a bus rider(s) why the bus is late - 100% impossible. They just don't want to hear it. I'd love for them to get a B/O job and listen to the nonsense thrust upon us. No, and I repeat NO, B/O wants to be late. If your are late, in addition to hearing a barrage of complaints from the riders, you have to shorten (or lose) your break or meal time.
Absolutely. Trash on buses is inexcusable; whenever I see something that someone has left on a bus here, I always round it up and dispose of it in the garbage bin as I step off. It's not my job to do so, but it's the least I can do to help the situation!
-F.
As a passenger on both busses and subways, whenever I see anyone leave anything as they leave I tell them IN A LOUD VOICE, Excuse me you forgot something. Most times they pick it up.
This practice has gotten me MANY dirty looks over the years.
Peace,
ANDEE
Screw them. They need to get the message. I like your good subtle technique!
-F.
I never blame the driver when the bus is late, unlike other PAX. The traffic is terrible on the N20/21, it's no wonder why many of the buses run late. The ops do their best to stay on time, but buses cannot fly over the cars.
I remember being so frustrated when I drove the bus for Univ. of MD because there were occasions that I'd start running early because either the flow of traffic allowed me to move along, even at the posted speed limit, and I couldn't just sit at a stop for two or three minutes and block up the right lane, so I used to just hope a light would turn red so I could "lose" some time. Usually, I'd be able to sit at the New Carrollton Metrorail station on one route that I'd run early and hang out there for a few minutes. The late night on campus routes were tougher to maintain a schedule, so I'd sit pull over in the parking lot for a few minutes to get back on track.
It isn't easy at all to be a B/O and I hate when those road monitors for WMATA are out there just waiting for a hot bus to show up so they can say something in front of the passengers. Some places give you only so many times of getting a warning for running hot before they are terminated.
>>> It is my belief that most of the posters to BusTalk may not be Bus Operators or even involved in any way in transit operations, except as riders and on BusTalk as complainers <<<
Joe;
I think you are coming across as being a bit defensive there. I think you underestimate the sophistication of the non professional Bus Talk posters. They are more informed than casual bus riders, because they do take an interest in transit operations. As far as complaining is concerned, just as in the newspaper business, if everything is going well there is nothing to write about. If 99% of a rider's trips go well, it is the 1% he will make an observation about on Bus Talk.
Your comment about the buses running on "Command time" is well taken, but for the schedules to be useful to the general public, command time must be synchronized with official time. Riders who have set their watches with a time signal over the phone, or other standard time checks have a right to expect the transit company to be running on the same time, and not a mechanically wound clock at the bus company headquarters which has not been adjusted in the past ten years. (Some small local operations are awfully unsophisticated.)
A lot of complaints are really about management and not the drivers of the buses. For instance, we have a single bus loop route in this area. The bus is scheduled to complete the loop in one hour. All times are listed as the same number of minutes after each hour all day long. This works fine until the afternoon rush hour when traffic slows the bus so that it is always late and getting later from 4:00 to 7:00 P.M. It is a practical impossibility for the B/O to maintain the published schedule, but the schedule is not adjusted to reflect reality. Casual bus riders may blame the B/O but regular bus riders know better.
Tom
We arrive 5 minutes early, yes. We aren't going to arrive any earlier, if at all.
I always arrive at least 5 minutes before the scheduled time, because sometimes they do run early. I totally understand why, because often in rush hours operators need to run early because the schedule does not allow enough time. The bottlenecks on N.Blvd and Glen Cove road for example can take 5 to 10 minutes (perhaps more) away.
Today going home on the N21 a bus to Great Neck was put ahead of us and it helped alleviate crowding on our bus.
whyt does that computer screen in the septa new flyers do.besides telling you the rt.
This morning I took the 5 minute qualifing class to operate the Orion V currently being used on the Bx29. The Instructor told me that Gun Hill will be getting a lot more Orions, the next route to be "Orioned" will be the Bx14, followed by the Bx8. He also said that the plans are to convert Gun Hill to Artic/Orion Depot.
I wolud like to take this moment to wish a very merry christmas, and a safe, and happy new year to all......
Orlando.
GH is going Orions/Artics. Are you serious? And what Orions exactly, the Vs or the VIIs?
On top of that, the 14 is getting Orions?! Oh Boy!
Glory Hallelujia!!! Variety comes back to the Bronx!
Your sarcasm is very unbecoming!!
Unbecoming, true. But honest. Bring on them Orions!
Haven't you Bronxites had the most variety the past few years? New Flyer Artics, Orions, RTS's, MAN Artics, Flxible Metros, The Journal News, Newsday, what more do you need? BTW, isn't 01:00:45 waaaayyy past your bedtime?
My mistake! I was looking at the time that I posted!
Orion V's at GH, and I understand, the Orion VII will be assigned to the Coliseum, when ever it opens up. Also here are the Orions currently aassigned to GH: 402, 403, 405, 406, and 407. I also saw 408 up on the lifts, so I'm thinking it will be added to the roster soon.
Look to me like Gun Hill Depot will be getting Orion V #400 to #470??
Peace
David. J
Merry Christmas & happy news years to Sub/Bustalks
It may be a question of what happens first: the arrival of the Orion 7 (if ever) or the grand opening of the new Colisuem depot.
Considering the way the Orion VIIs have been going, I think Coliseum will open first. Looking at the construction site (which is only a short ride on the Bx40/42 from my area), that's a likely scenario.
Coliseum Depot will not be open first & they will open sometime late 2002 & New 100th Street will be open sometime around april or june, 2002 if not than they will open the same time with Coliseum Depot in late 2002. BTW: CNG OrionVII won't arrived until early 2003.
Peace
David J.
Merry X-mas & Happy News Years to Bus/SubTalk
Any ideas where their RTS's might go?
-Jay
If it's true (and I hope its not), a safe bet would be somewhere on the NYCT end of things, like 126th, FLA, or maybe, just maybe, FP or QV. (Don't cross your fingers yet. I don't want those RTSs going anywhere without a fight!)
Honestly I think GH shouldn't lose all of their RTS's. 50 at most would be good enough. There is nothing that I dislike at GH, I wouldn't mind seeing anything from them over here.
I think 126St. has a great RTS fleet(except for the 3400's), I don't think it needs any of GH's RTS's. The depot that despritly needs RTS's is Ulmer Park. I will admit that they need them more than Fresh Pond. The UP suburbans are causing too many problems for their local routes. They better NOT go to ENY(greedy bastards), they're getting treated too good.
If Fresh Pond ever breaks the 3 year drought, I would be very surprised. I really want to see the 9229-9249(the best set of RTS's that could possibly come here).But I won't count on it though, FP and UP will probably get crapped on once again. As for QV and FLA, they should get the 8000's if it's possible.
Considering the amount of buses that are about to fall apart at FP, IF GH were to lose its RTS, the best scenario is for 885x-8898 to head down there, with 9229-9249, which comes to a total of about sixty buses, finishing off all of the 1984 T8Js and some of the 1985 T8Js (I'm still trying to figure out how with FP get screwed over with nearly 100 of those things). If 9444-9487 were to come over the Rigdewood would have a completly different look, for then there would only be as many T8Js left as there are at many other depots.
But then again, this is NY, and were dealing with NYCT Bus Operations. They came up with a number of crazy ideas already. If the Orion V swap rumor is true, that will be one of them.
You are correct, NYCT is unpredictable and anything could happen.
After FP got dumped with 46--'s and 47--'s, I completely lost faith in it. I was patient for two years, then I just gave up. That's the reason I have so many doubts in FP. When I hear my friend saying that FP will get newer buses soon, I'll just say I doubt it. It's a shame I have to look at FP in disgust with my cold look.
Who knows what 2002 holds, I may be right or I maybe wrong, but I won't put any hope in FP next year. Ridgewood will probably remain as plain as it was 3 years ago when it comes to buses. I really wish things would change though, it isn't fair to a bus fan like me(siiiigh...)
B13- RTS 99'Nova #5066
Have a great and safe Christmas!
-Jay
A 5 minute qualifying class?
No offense intended to you Orlando or anyone else who is a Bus Operator but somehow only 5 minutes training on equipment like that does not give me (as a passenger) a very warm feeling.
But as I am a frequent rider of the Bx29 (from Pelham Bay to C0-OP City) and well as the Bx 26, 28 and 30, I will rely on and trust in your abilities to control the "stretch machines".
Allan
CO-OP City, Bronx, NY
The "5 minute" instruction was just to introduce me to the instruments, and gages since they are diffrent from an RTS, and an RTS is diffrent from an Artic, but driving the thing is no diffrent from driving an RTS, except that you need to be mindful of the rear overhang, the wheelbase is diffent than the RTS.
Orlando, I drive RTS's out of 126th Street Depot. I was just curious, what do you think of the Orion? It looks like it's a more comfortable bus to drive. How do you like it?
when the instructor offered me the opportuniy, natrally I jumed at it, so when I got to the Bus, I set myself up, and then he told me that I would not be driving it. My heart sank faster than the Titanic, but sitting in the Driver's seat, the windows are much bigger, the right side mirror is bigger than the RTS, and it felt more comfortable than the RTS
Ah, the creature comforts of a new bus. We had a lot of those on the New Flyer LFs at Blacksburg but I still felt more at home in the older Flx Metros. Besides, the manual mirrors on those took me a LOT less time to adjust than the power units on the NFs!
-F.
Thanks for the info BUSter. It just goes to prove that the driver compartment and ergonomics of the RTS was definitely an afterthought. It's a shame because it really detracts from what is essentially a very good transit bus.
Wait a tick...didn't Nova redesign its cockpit a few years back?
-F.
Nova did a minor redesign of the RTS drivers compartment on the 1999 models. They eliminated the right side panel which created a little more room but not anything to write home about. Even with this minor change, the RTS still lags way behind more modern buses when it comes to driver comfort and ergonomics. In my opinion the best RTS drivers compartment is the one found in the WFD model which is completely different from the standard RTS.
That must be the one. Too bad the outside ergonomics of the RTS suffer from the WFD iteration. What an ugly front end that thing has!
-F.
I need some help sorting this stuff out.
Orignally, the bus companies said they didn't want to do a contract because they may not have their franchises renewed. I am assuming that the union told them BEFORE the renewal how much they wanted. Why wasn't this built into the renewal contract. Even though the rest of the contract is 1990s vintage, I am sure the dollar amount has increased faster than inflation because they have a monopoly on contracts. If I am wrong or missing something, please fill me in.
Will NYBS and LLE go on strike as well?
Question 2: How do the express buses rank by borough in terms of ridership each day? I have an idea, but I think some might be out of alignment:
LIBERTY LINES EXPRESS: BXM1, BXM3, BXM2, BXM11, BXM4A/B, BXM18
NEW YORK BUS SERVICE: BXM7, BXM9, BXM10, BXM7A, BXM6, BXM7B
COMMAND BUS COMPANY: BM1, BM3, BM2, BQM1, BM4, BM2S
GREEN BUS LINES: QM15, QM18, QM23, QM16, QM17
QUEENS SURFACE CORPORATION: QM1, QM1A, QM2, QM4, QM3
TRIBORO COACH CORPORATION: QM10, QM11, QM24, QM12, QM22
Numbers would also be appreciated.
You forgot QM2A...Midtown to Clearview via 6th Av...
And it's just Queens Surface, Jamaica Buses, and Triboro Coach, AFAIK...That's what I heard on the news...
C. Walton
Cleanairbus
Add:
JAMAICA BUS LINES: QM21
N.B.—these photos are hosted on my AOL webserver, which is notoriously unreliable. Each photo is only about 150kb, but if the server appears unresponsive, just hit 'reload' or open another window and let the photos load in the background. Sorry!
WMATA's CNG New Flyers
I had some free time today, so this morning I drove over to Montgomery Division to get some shots of WMATA's new CNG New Flyers, which are Salt Lake City-bound in February. Unfortunately, I only got three shots before my digital camera conked out . . . I forgot to recharge the batteries before I left. WMATA apparently has no refueling facilities for these units, but they must have some portable (trailered?) CNG tanks, because as you can see, a couple units were up and running, probably for acceptance testing, near the garage gate.
Taken from just across Marinelli Rd. by the Park-and-Ride lot, where I parked -- here you can see a couple of the New Flyers powered up and running. Note that the destination signs have generic "Thank you for riding Metrobus" messages.
Taken from the vantage point of a knoll on the adjacent apartment complex's property. In the background, against Nicholson Ln, you can see the row of just-delivered New Flyers, identifiable by their CNG "humps." Note the gas pump in the foreground: no CNG pump yet! (In other CNG news, I noticed a Ride-On CNG Orion V broken down on 355 near Georgetown Prep at about 11:30 am.)
I got a squirrelly look from the guy at the security booth for taking this shot from right outside the gate, but here's the main entrance again, about five minutes after the first shot. Interesting how the winter sky came out on camera . . . it was (and is) quite sunny when I took the photos, but it came out pretty dark.
Strangely, the photos don't seem to be loading correctly . . . if they don't load for you in the original message, go to http://members.aol.com/gradientfill/newflyer and just view the photos manually.
Sorry for the inconvenience!
C
These are great photos!! I'm glad they were still out there. I almost ran off the road the first time I saw them as I was coming down that hill on Nicholson Lane.
I just read on WMATA's website that they have funding to buy 110 more CNG buses, but didn't name a supplier yet.
The only thing I don't like about the New Flyers is the paint job on the front. The Orion VI is like that, too, and its strange looking. I guess I can get used to it. Those Orange destination signs are great looking. I haven't seen Orion V 4309 lately that has an orange sign, but a Gillig DASH bus the other day had one. I guess a lot of agencies are trying them out.
I'm not all that enamored with the front paint scheme on the New Flyers or O-VIs either, but I was impressed with how they handled the stripe "crossover" on the rear flanks . . . with the staggered rear windows of the New Flyers, it actually looks natural and there's a reason for the crossover. Very slick! I'm also glad that the italicized Metrobus logo on the O-VIs bit the dust . . . they didn't try to slap it on the CNG roof casing.
Yeah, those orange LED signs are great . . . the new Ride-On 51xx buses have them, and they're the only signs that are actually legible in the dank bus station underneath the Chevy Chase Metro Building. I've seen them on the DASH Gilligs too; they're much better than the rollsigns they used to use. I'm also impressed that the resolution is such that they can show (simple) graphics: the DASH units use a Metro logo when the routes terminate at a Metro station, which I've noticed on buses at King St and Braddock Rd stations. I'll keep an eye out for the retrofitted WMATA Orion V you've mentioned . . . that must be quite a sight.
In other Ride-On news -- I saw a new Ford E350-based cutaway in my rearview mirror on Antique Row in Kensington the other day in the new black-on-blue paint scheme (used on the larger International-based 51XX cutaways -- body manufacturer of those units still unknown). I only got a passing glimpse, but glinting in the midday sun, it was quite attractive. I presume they're still contractor-operated and will replace the older scuffed E350/Aerotechs.
C
Yeah, I thought that was interesting with the stripes towards the rear of the New Flyers, too. I'm so used to seeing it towards the front, but due the front wheel well cutting it off, it wasn't going to work. I agree, too, no "Metrobus" wording on the tanks.
DASH does take advantage of the graphics. They also stack the "AT" for the route on top of each other rather than just reading "AT2". The first time I saw it, it looked like a "Y". Have you seen the DASH About bus in Old Town? Its a free shuttle that runs from the King Street Metro to the City Hall in Old Town. It has a really cool paint job. They use a few of the 35' Gilligs for it.
4309, the Orion V with the Orange sign, comes out of the Royal Division. Since that garage really doesn't have a whole lot of routes, the only routes I could think you might have a decent shot at seeing it is maybe the 28A and B. I've seen in on that route twice and the 10B once. Those routes run through Old Town as well. Actually, weekdays at Washington Street and King Street can probably provide some interesting bus shots with DASH, Metrobus and Fairfax Connector.
I'm curious to see the new Pentagon bus terminal now that its open. Its not completely finsihed, but buses are allowed back on the Pentagon property. Pentagon City was way too tight to handle all of those buses. Plus, they had the buses lined up on both sides of a 4 lane divided road, so people would just shoot out in front of the traffic to get to either side. It was definitely an accident waiting to happen. Now the Ritz Carlton as well as the fancy shops at the Fashion Centre can breathe since the buses are gone.
Yes, I've seen the DASH About bus . . . seriously cool paint job! I've not had occasion to ride it yet, but it is an eyecatcher.
The stacked routing numbers are neat as well! I'd be interested to know what model of control console the signs use . . . next time I take the AT5 I'll try to find out.
Thanks for the info on 4309 . . . I'll keep an eye peeled for it on the routes you mentioned. BTW, have you noticed that some the dedicated Orion VIs on the 38B now have an above-the-windows banner in red plugging the online bus-tracking service? I spotted one in Rosslyn Tuesday near the old Gannett towers.
It's great that the Pentagon bus station is reopening -- you're right that Pentagon City makes a less-than-ideal transit center! Up at school in Providence we have a similar situation -- the main transit center at Kennedy Plaza is undergoing reconstruction, so bus stops for the dozens of RIPTA routes terminating there are scattered about the nearby blocks. It's crowded and confusing.
C
That DASH bus is really cool. Even my non bus friends think its neat looking. I rode it one time when I was meeting some friends down in that area since parking is ridiculous. I believe its only running until Dec. 31, but maybe they'll see how popular it is and give it extra funding to continue, or at least have it start again the Spring.
Yeah, I've seen a lot of those Orion VI's with the red banner on the top. There are a couple different versions. One says something about the 38B, another one had the nextbus website on it. I've seen from 2000-2007 dedicated with this, but there could be a couple of others too. Occasionally one of those buses ends up on another route as well.
They've fixed up the bus area at Rosslyn really nicely. I like those electronic signs indicating the route numbers of all the buses that stop there.
I can imagine in RI how frustrating that is to have the buses thrown all over the place. Hopefully, the new terminal will be worth the inconvenience.
Did you get a chance to take the B30? This one guy at work raves about that bus. Its so funny to hear him talk about it, especially since they aren't bus fans or regular transit users.
I do hope they get the funding to maintain service -- it's a great program, and I can imagine it benefits the King Street corridor economically, as it brings customers to businesses.
No, still haven't taken the B30 - I was thinking about using it and light rail to make for a cheap day-trip to Baltimore this weekend, and I'll post here if I do. It'll be interesting to see how it compares to MARC timewise - probably quite a bit slower, but perhaps more convenient in that I'll already be on the light rail and can just step off downtown . . . and thus won't have to transfer onto it from the MARC at Penn Station (LR service to the Penn spur is relatively infrequent - I had to wait about 15-20 minutes for a train last time I tried it (june), and it's a slow ride to Camden/Inner Harbor area).
C
Yeah, its a long walk from the Metro to the shops. That bus is a whole lot better than that stupid Bethesda 8 trolley run by Ride On. I rode that thing for kicks last weekend. The bus driver looked embarrassed to drive it.
The B30/Light rail combo is definitely slower, but it is a good weekend alternative since MARC doesn't run then. I agree the LR ride is slow, but you do get a great view of the city coming in over the River there. It feels like a slow motion rollercoaster.
My next WMATA adventure will be after December 30. There is a new route, the C18 that will run from Branch ave. to Waldorf Off peaks during the week and all day on weekends. Sounds like a fun Saturday thing to do.
One other cool new routing has the Z9 and Z29 extended from Burtonsville to Laurel.
The rest of the changes seem to be time adjustments to meet up with the metro, finally. The C4 that runs from Twinbrook to PG Plaza will run M-Th until after midnight as well as the service they already have on Fridays and Saturdays until 3AM. Where was that service when I used to live in Hyattsville and the last bus was at 7PM? That was really fun to do anything with that type of service.
Branch Ave to Waldorf? That oughta be a good Saturday outing! Guess I'll add that to my "to-do" list, along with the other new routes I haven't tried yet: the X5 (or is it X30) from Union Station to the Arboretum, the 5a to Dulles, and of course the B30 to BWI.
I did get to take one trip by proxy the other day -- I had to drive all the way out to Olney on an errand but was passing Y7,8,9 buses along the Georgia Avenue stretch. I'd been meaning to ride the Y line for a while, so I guess I got pretty much the same experience while saving the $1.10 in fare. Pretty decent scenery -- makes you really feel like you're in Maryland proper, with its agricultural/small town legacy, not just the Washington suburbs.
C
Yeah, those Y routes go wait out there. Of course, Olney is building up so much that it doesn't seem like much of a break between there and Aspen Hill. I bet those buses can fly along Georgia Ave.
I'm looking forward to the new C18. I can't figure out how long the trip will take as I haven't seen an official timetable, but it loops through several park and ride lots and the St. Charles Town Center Mall.
I believe the bus from Union Station to the Arboretum is the X6. I saw the stop when I visited there over the summer. It drops you off right at the main gate. The Arboretum is beautiful if you ever have a chance to go there. Its a great date place, too!!
If you do take the B30, enjoy. Its a nice run. Very comfortable in those seats. The airport will probably be a madhouse the next couple of weeks.
Enjoy the rest of your time here!
How do the route alphanumerics go at WMATA? I know they go by borough in NYC (i.e. BX12=Bronx, M42=Manhattan, etc.). Here in Roanoke, they are more of a "radial" system (i.e. 11/12 and 15/16 go to North Roanoke and back, 31/32 and 35/36 go east and back, 51/52 and 55/56 go to South Roanoke and back, and 81/82 goes west and back, etc. and so on). How do they go in DC? Just curious; thanks!
-Fred
The metrobus system here is really confusing because there were several different private companies that ran the routes, then they all were combined into WMATA.
Virginia Routes will have the number before the letter, For example: 1C, 38B, 13A, etc.
MD has a combination, theirs is mainly letter before number, such as Q2, Y8, J2, but there are a few with numbers only, such as 82, 87, 88.
DC is mainly numbers only, with several that have letters before numbers. The majority would be the 30-36 line, 42, 52-54, 60-66, 70, 80, and 90-98, along with some with letters first such as D2, L2, etc.
The Virginia routes are the easiest to say, these are Virgina routes, especially since only a few of the cross into either MD or DC, whereas you have so many more crossing between MD and DC, which causes this mix of routes.
I know I've probably confused everyone and there's probably a better way to explain it, but this is how I can pretty much say it and understand it at the same time!!
Thanks for the info; it's always interesting to learn more about routes.
So 1C is in Virginia, eh? How about that...your favorite route is in my home state after all!
-Fred
Well . . . Northern Virginia! I've heard more than a few people from Richmond tell me that "Northern Virginia ain't really Virginia!" LOL . . .
C
LOL, maybe No. VA should think of secession????
Ha ha! Actually, in upper NW DC, where I live, there was a fairly active movement during the Barry era of (effectively) no city services to secede and join Montgomery county. Nothing ever came of it, obviously.
C
Every now and then you hear something like that. There was also something a few years ago about having MD or VA or both take over DC again. That didn't go over very well at all! I'm sure the areas in Chevy Chase would love to be part of MD instead of DC.
Also, then they wouldn't have the eternal "which Chevy Chase" question. I find that to be quite annoying.
Yeah, that's one of my pet peeves . . . I hate correcting people. "No, I live in Chevy Chase, D.C., dammit!"
C
Ah, Virginia is Virginia. Blacksburg, Roanoke, DC, Richmond, Westassitch or whatever that county is called...it's all here. :)
-F.
Yeah, I love the 1C. I can take this bus to work, to the mall, etc. It came in handy when I didn't have my car for a couple of weeks earlier this Fall. They don't use enough Flxibles on it though! Mainly Orions. Actually, the "1" line consists of the 1B,C,D,E,F and Z. Lots of variations!
I lived in Arlington, VA for a year in 1981-1982, and I always thought when WMATA numbered their bus routes, they had picked numbers out of a hat.
It sure seems that way, Steve. There is no rhyme or reason to the way that this is all numbered as its an archaic system. I've always been in favor of somehow renumbering the lines to make some kind of sense, but it would be too hard to totally revamp it at this point. Other than the number being the line for VA bus routes, that's about all that makes any sense.
Have you been back to the DC area since? You probably wouldn't recognize Arlington as its so built up now. Its more of an urban area than a lot of DC.
Moved out in 1/82 -- haven't visited since 4.85. In just those three years, I saw some big changes.
There was logic. The numbered routes were originally trolley lines and retained their original numbers.
Yup, although it's still confusing that both DC and Maryland use letter-number route designations independent of the legacy trolley numbering (E3, Y8, etc.). I would suggest re-numbering the letter-number in-town routes with numbers-only for consistency, and re-numbering numbers-only suburban Maryland routes with letter-number combinations, except that it would only add to the confusion for people who've lived here for many years and would really only benefit tourists.
Speaking of trolleys, has anyone ever been to the Capitol Trolley Museum in Kensington? I came across a website but had never heard of it . . . wondering if it's worth a trip.
C
I think the numbering system does need to be looked at, but I doubt anything will be done. The DC routes make the most sense of any of the lines. The 30 line is the Wisconsin Ave.-Pennsylvania Ave. line, the 50 line is the 14th street line, the S line is the 16th street line, etc. Whereas in MD, if you say the J line, well, there's the J1, 2 and 3 in Bethesda, but also the J11, J12 and J13 in PG county. Virginia is close since the 1 line is more or less the the Rte. 50 line, the 2 line is the Washington Blvd. line, etc.
I like looking at old trolley maps to see what has changed since then. The Trolley museum is definitely worth a couple of hours of checking out. They have a track there that lets you take a ride on one of the older trolleys, plus there are lots of pictures, memorabilia, etc. The Ride On route 26 goes right to it on Weekends.
I found your info interesting and helpful Mr.Steve.
However werent you driving for RTA here in Sunny California back in 1981-82?
Maybe you are confusing Arlington, Va with the RTA Arlington route serviced by former DC Trasit/WMATA 5304's.
Advise?
That's the way I would've explained WMATA's route numbers. I really think that WMATA should simplify their route numbers. I know this would create a lot of confusion, but it would better in the long run. Perhaps WMATA could do the entire system at once or even do them one group at a time... MD routes, DC routes and VA routes.
I really didn't begin to figure out WMATA's route numbers until I had lived here for about a year.
Wayne
I've always thought of Metrobus as the stepchild of WMATA. Its a shame because buses are so much more flexible than the rail and is a great complement to it. They two could do so much better if there were better rail to bus transfers, more logical routings, etc. I see in WMATA's latest round of changes, they are extending many of the buses to meet the last train. Its about time they realized that everyone that uses metrorail doesn't have a car and if they have to work late or want to stay out late and needs a bus, they're stuck. I'm glad I have my car, plus I live a block from the metro, as my $1,300/mo. rent reminds me of it, but metrorail is useless if those dependent on buses are stuck having to bum a ride or take an expensive cab ride home.
True. But I thought the bus and rail were connected pretty well with each other? Then again, I don't live in DC, so what do I know.
-F.
They connect, but not always really coordinated. Its hard to be pinpoint exact, but the bus has always been the stepchild of the regio since it isn't as flahsy or fancy as the subway. Now, they schedules are being adjusted so that you can actually use a bus from the subway late at night rather than having to be home early or drive or take an expensive cab ride.
That's good; it's the way things should be.
-F.
In fairness, though, WMATA has done a decent job making improvements to the MetroBus system in the past few years, particularly with the purchase of the new Orion V/Orion VI and New Flyer C40LFs. Also, the fare structure was dramatically improved last year, which I think has helped ridership (now if only SEPTA could follow WMATA's lead).
As for Metrobus/Metrorail connections, that's always going to be a tricky point there. On some routes, that has improved, but given the nature of how Metrorail runs, every bus that connects with Metrorail obviously isn't going to be able to be timed exactly to rail schedules. That's not a problem limited to WMATA, but other systems as well.
The Bethesda 8 is not stupid. I think it is somewhat slow and roundabout but if you don't want to walk to the Metro, it is a good deal.
The service itself is great, the trolley I don't like. I'm not a big fan of those things. I hope it gets a lot of business though because the downtown bethesda area is big and has a lot of busy roads to cross.
Now THAT's when you know a bus is looking good; when a non-busfan likes the design. In fact, that is what transit needs; an aesthetically pleasing design to attract an otherwise oblivious public to use of mass transportation. You'd be amazed at the heads that turn when our restored 1979 Grumman rolls down the road when everyone around here is used to looking at the tired old plain white Gilligs that pass by and don't even make a notice. And those are the "new" buses that REPLACED our coach! Talk about bass-ackwards.
-F.
I agree. Take a little time to make the bus stand out and everyone would want to ride it. From what I understand, back when WMATA had those wraps on their Orion's, there was one that had a big Kodak ad and all the kids used to like seeing this bright yellow bus roll down the street.
I bet that Grumman looks nice. I'm definitely going to have to take a road trip down there one of these days. What are you, maybe 3 hours or so from the DC area?
It's probably about 3 hours or so from DC to Roanoke. I can find out; also, you may contact Bev Fitzpatrick, our museum president, about a visit and elapsed time travel; you will find more info at our site at www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html.
Hope to hear from you soon!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach And Trolley Museum
Thanks!! Maybe in the Spring I'll ride down there when its nice to do some sightseeing. That would be a fun overnight trip to do.
We would certainly look forward to your visit; also, we are to receive another 1973 GM 3302 "Baby Fishbowl" from Staunton this coming March in running condition so maybe we can take you for a ride in that one as well. Keep us posted!
-Fred
Very cool! I'll definitely keep you posted!! I didn't realize that VA had so much transit history to it.
Orange LED signs RULE! They are MUCH easier to read than anything else I have ever seen. We FINALLY got them this year on our new Gillig order and they make the buses look GREAT!
-F.
OH SHIT!
Metro done did it again! I will be down there the day after christmas shooting them bitches!
OH MAN!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
LOL! They're really nice-looking buses . . . I think Metro's paint scheme looks nicer on them than on the low-floor Orion VIs we got last year. Can't wait to see them in regular service. Post the pictures here when you "shoot those bitches" ;) . . .
C
Please do...shoot em till it HURTS!
-F.
only 40 are going to salt lake. by the way did you find out what brand those rideon mini are. thanx
by the way did you find out what brand those rideon mini are. thanx
Good question - still haven't found out. I haven't had a chance to ride one yet, so I haven't seen a build plate, and there is no external badging that identifies the coachbuilder. However, I know that both Eldorado National and Startrans build coaches on International 3100/3400 cutaway chassis, so it's probably one of those companies - won't know for sure, though, 'til I get a chance to ride one. :)
Anyone else know?
C
Those are NICE; I especially like the paint treatment at the headlight area. The Flx shot is nice too!
-F.
I personally don't like them.
The facility at Bladensburg won't be ready until after the Olympics. Why they are at Montgomery though is totally beyond me.
Saw a Flxible Metro-E on River Road at Burdette (just inside the beltway) on the T2 at about 3:20 this afternoon. It appeared to be 4006 but I do know it had the flag on the rear. No photo though.
Nice! Wish you had a photo of these fine buses. I LOVE em!
-F.
I think the first batch of Flx Metros are on their way out. Since I read that WMATA has funding for 110 CNG buses to replace older diesel burning buses, this only means that the 1986 Flxibles have to be the ones that are being considered for replacement. The only buses older than that are the 1983 MAN artics. : ( Of course it could be a couple of years before all that happens, so there is still time.
I did see several Flxibles over the weekend though. I was on 9784 Metro D on the 25B headed to Landmark Mall, but also saw several 4000 series E's running around as well.
Alright that does it; I'm buying one. What kind of engines, what length and width are slated to go, and which nos. are in the best condition? I hate to see them go, but I could really use one for a mobile shop and store if I have the funds by then; I am sick of hearing the neighbors and roommate bitch about the fumes while I breathe them in the process!
-F.
Oh, I don't know which ones would go first, this is just me thinking aloud since the article mentioned that with the new buses that are funded in the 2003 budget, they'd replace the older diesel buses. My first guess would be the '86 Flx Metros. If they were to go, I'd say the first ones would be the ones that haven't been rehabbed or repainted. There are still a few of those running around here as they have the old paint scheme and the old advertising frames vs. the ads that are just pasted on. There are a few out of the Arlington Division that are like that. I believe 8771 is one of them. Those have Detroit Diesels, very nice engines! At least we have a couple of years for that to happen since it would probably take a couple of years to get anything built and delivered. I wish they were just diesel fuel though, since there is such a debate whether CNG is actually that much better than the cleaner burning diesel.
I used to love driving anything with a DD engine. I didn't mind driving a cummins, until I'd come to a stop and the whole bus would vibrate so bad I thought I'd lose a few windows.
Yeah, I'm a Detroit Diesel fan myself. However, the Series 50 in our 1994 Gilligs jaded both myself and our TA quite a bit as they switched to Cummins ISLs for their latest Gillig order. They are six cylinders as opposed to four, and are surprisingly quiet and smooth for a Cummins. The 94s have been the most unreliable buses they have ever had; they are always in the shop with blown transmissions! Meanwhile, the 6v92-powered 91 models (my current favorites here) roar along just fine without any problems.
We were originally slated to receive CNG-powered Orions here in 1994 but the startup cost and maintenance of a CNG fueling station at the TA would have been astronomical so the bid was accepted for diesel-powered Gilligs that required no big startup cost but have been nothing but bad out of the box. If only we got Flxibles with ISLs!
Are the older non-rehab Flxes 71-Series or 92-Series powered? Either engine is good and sounds SWEET in a Metro. I actually prefer the older paint schemes on those as I feel it looks much better for the styling. Those new colors just don't match the bus at all.
-F.
Try taking a pic of a bus from another moving viechle and see what happens.
Saw 9206 on either the 30s or the N2 at 7:25 this morning, no more flag. I think they are being replaced.
What are being replaced? Not the buses, I hope! Yeah, taking pics from a moving vehicle is a bear...I tried it in Cleveland when I saw RTA Flx Metro no. 8823 ride by and it was a BEAR. I seem to do OK when I try it here in Roanoke though.
-F.
I meant the flag advertisements.
Any news on who bought Nova BUS yet??? We keep hearing rumors that MCI is the one!!
WHAT OH SHIT! CAN YOU IMAGIN THAT SHIT! MCI RTS-06 or MCI style lettering MCI R4000!
BRING BACK THE FUCKING FLXIBLE METRO SO THEN THE MCI LINE CAN LOOK LIKE THIS:
MCI E4500
MCI F3500
MCI G4500 AND G4100
MCI J4500
MCI M4000 FOR METRO
MCI R4000 FOR RTS!
IMAGIN THAT!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
THERE ya go...the best of BOTH worlds! Proven designs from a leading coach manufacturer that look GOOD!
-F.
NJ Transit noted at it's website that the 302/303 Airlink bus between Broad St/Newark, Penn Station/Newark, and Newark International Airport (EWR) operated by Coach USA/Red & Tan will be "suspended until further notice" - ie. eliminated. Obviously, they're pushing the new train service to EWR instead of bus service.
Eliminated is not correct. My aunt works the 302 and she was told that this line would be discontinued on a temporay basis to see if folks would use the new Newark Airtrain. Your right in the fact that by doing this it forces people to use the new AirTrain Newark, but I don't see people running in droves to use the train now and it will never get the ridership its intended to get. The 302 will be back. I am sure about that! There are people fighting to get it back now.
Peace!
DaShawn
Then one must use local buses between Newark-Penn and Newark Broad St.
Dicontinuance is a typical trick to get people to ride something else.
Like someone stated there is always the "62".
Out of curiosity mixed in with historical significance I rode the new reconstituted monorail, er, Airtrain, to see how it was. Nice. Well, nice and slow, with trains hanging above between stations for no apparent reason. Got to inspect the new EWR station. Too damn bad that at that point one must purchase a ticket to "somewhere" in order to gain access to the platform. By today's standards the station is typical, perhaps even a bit better. An excellent place to shoot mainline railroading. But the $11.00 fare to NY Penn is out of it.
Just the way Port Authority likes it, I'm sure. Now we know what to expect at JFK, although THAT airtrain will be a mini-system from the looks of it.
In an age where people in Boston can get a ride to the airport on the Blue line subway, and people in Chicago can ride the subway to the airports and so can folks in D.C. and Cleveland, why are we to be considered priveledged to have this high-priced debacle as the best that can be offered?
I'm have a friggin' Brain Hemorrhage and a heart attack over here,
LOOK AT THIS SHIT, MCI KEEPS DOING THIS TO ME
Regards,
Trevor Logan
"On my way to the hospital for fluids"
Wow! Gorgeous paint scheme! I'm not sure what I think of the 'transit'-style doors. I presume from the odd window that it has a mid-coach wheelchair lift?
C
Great looking bus. However, I was hoping I'd see an "MCI Metro". Wishful thinking for now! One of these days, they'll design that thing. Hey, if they are making so many OTR coaches for transit use, they may as well make an actual transit bus to broaden their market.
Absolutely...Absolutely! MCI, I hope you've got your ears on!
-F.
Yep, she's a beauty ain't she. These things are running rampant, all 90 of them. I've still yet to ride one. There are abot 50 more scheduled to come in.
It looks a whole hell of a lot better than the Neoplans.
So, these would be the 4800-4889 series, correct? That shows how much I know about the Houston system... =)
Good question. I was pretty sure that Metro's New Flyer Vikings were numbered 4700-4803. Perhaps the new MCIs are numbered right on top starting at 4804, or maybe they did it TTC-style and started at 4810, and the unit in the picture is the first one. Good for them. They would not have got enough mileage out of the 4800-series had they placed the MCIs in the 4900s.
What's so bad about that? It looks nice to me!
-F.
I paid a lovely visit down to the NJ Transit Acceptance Lot today. Along with the Abundance of 78xx & 80xx D4000 Cruisers were the 96 inch wide D4000Ns numbered in the 89xx Series.
Having a MCI seizure over here!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
With the D4000N's getting closer to hitting the streets, I'd like some clarification on the following: I thought the reason for ordering 96-inch buses was because the Holland Tunnel does not allow 102-inch buses. But during last night's rush hour I happened to be waiting for a red light at the Holland Tunnel exit in Jersey City and I'm sure I saw at least one Academy 102-inch bus. I recollect other BusTalkers mentioning 102-inch buses using the Holland Tunnel. Anyone know the real story behind the 96-inch buses?
Well some 102-inch buses are able to sneak into the Tunnel but the real deal is that nothing above 96 inches wide is allowed through the Tubes. So that's why NJT got the order so they can fully comply!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Then explain the TA MCI's they are 102' arent they.
Robert
Some operators do run 102s through the Holland, but they are not supposed to. The reason for the restriction is not so much that a single 102" bus can't make it. A few companies even volunteered to be "guinea pigs", notably Trans-Bridge, to see if 102s could make the cut on a regular basis. It's that TWO 102-inchers side by side will definitely make contact, either with each other or the wall. Remember the mirrors are not included in the width measurement of a bus, only the body.
The PA realizes it's difficult to acquire the narrower coach these days, but you may see stepped-up enforcement when all the D4000Ns have been delivered. The NJT order was large enough for MCI to make the narrower vehicle, and most of the D4000Ns will go to private operators. NJT only needs them for the 134.
[NJT only needs them for the 134]
I guess if the 96-inch 3000 series Flxibles are eventually replaced with 102-inch buses, NJ Transit will also need the D4000N's for the 120. Perhaps the D4000N's will be used there anyway.
No, you'd see a handful of new 96-inch suburbans for the 120. It's easier to get 96-inch transit bodies than intercity coaches - the RTS and Neoplan Transliners can be ordered that way, and with the new artic order, both types are essentially in the fleet for those body parts not associated with width.
Plus, I don't think a D4000N would get in and out of Greenville Garage. That was the reason NJT closed Warwick and Madison Avenue in Paterson and replaced them both with the Wayne garage - MCIs didn't fit in the older buildings.
IIRC, there are supposed to be about 80 or so D4000N cruisers. NJT only needs about 3-4 cruisers for the 134; this means that no more than 8-10 D4000Ns will be sent to Howell. The remaining buses will be allocated to private carriers who serve Wall Street (ie. Academy, Coach USA, etc.).
I think only the Holland Tunnel has that restriction and AFAIK the TA's buses use the Lincoln Tunnel between NY and NJ.
Wayne
What's a 4000"N"?
-F.
It's a 4000 Narrow -- i.e., 96 inches wide instead of 102. NJTransit special-ordered them for Holland Tunnel service . . . presumably, they're also easier to handle in NYC at that width.
C
I see; that makes sense. Chicago also ordered some 96-inchers for a narrow route as well; they were the first RTS-08s ever built and look a LOT more true to the original design than the later iteration that just makes me want to throw up every time I see it. Ugh!
-F.
The Chicago RTS's have a rear window too. I took a doubletake when I saw it. It was an interesting addition to see on it. I hope to go back to Chicago in March, so maybe I'll take some more rides around Michigan Ave.
Wow....rear windows? NEAT! We have that in our new Thomas SLFs; what a cool concept to look from behind in a new bus again! This is the first time Roanoke has been able to do that on a new bus since we got our Flxible New Looks in 1976, my favorite buses of all time.
We also have one of those in our museum, awaiting restoration. :)
-Fred
Actually, the 4900-series CTA RTS-08s (RTS T80 608, narrow Lake Street buses) are among the only RTSs left with the fabled rear windows. Over the last 18 months or so, CTA has retrofitted most of its RTS fleet with rear-mounted a/c units. This process does away with the rear windows and makes them look just like regular RTSs from the back. Fortunately, the original-release wide front door is still there - and for the record, CTA is NOT the only TA to have first-generation WFD TMC RTSs!
I'll definitely have to check that out if I make my way back to Chicago. I road the number 3 from Water Tower down to my hotel and at first I didn't realize that it had a back window due to the ad wrap on it, but after I got off I saw it. The first time I heard that they had one, I didn't know what to expect. The bus that is on Midtown Madness (Chicago Edition) uses one of those.
First I'm glad the DOT strike was averted. Hopefully the workers got a decent settlement.Saw a Cummins #283 broke down on N.blvd going east by Francis Lewis. Going back the 5:44pm N21 was running very late. An N20 to Hicksville departs at 5:45pm, and the N21 doesn't show until 6:05pm. Both drivers said that N.Blvd was a parking lot. I tell ya somebody has to do something about Northern. In Nassau county, especially in Manhasset and Great Neck it bottlenecks because the traffic lights are timed so you miss every one. With all the traffic in that area the lights should all clear to green so it can speed along, but I guess the North Shore NIMBY's have other plans. Also two stop signs have been added to Harbor Hill Rd in East Hills, on which the N27 runs. More NIMBY's there as well.
Personally the situation here in NW Nassau is so bad I think all crossings on N.Blvd and Glen Cove road should be eliminated. Get rid of the lights and build on-off ramps like NJ's route 4 for example. Sure stuff will have to be knocked down but we're all better off in the long run if 25a (N.Blvd) is finally fixed.
I believe that they are adding some Flushing to Great Neck trips on the N20 starting 1/6/02. Perhaps this will ease some of the crowding you've been complaining of.
CG
I saw what looked like a really old Orion model on a Liberty lines route, it was a CNG (sounded like the Cummins L10G). It didn't have that boxy look but was rounded more like Gilligs, but the sign said Orion.
This is a pure guess on my part, as I don't believe Liberty Lines has a bus that fits your description. Command used to have a few Orion I CNG buses that were transferred to Varsity Transit at some point. I believe one or more still operate in contract service, so it is possible that is what you saw.
Thats correct 902 is still in service. I see it everyday on Lexington Ave. It is used for Hunter College students. Bus 901 has been partially stripped.
Kevin
Varsity transit, that's it! I got it mixed up with Liberty, dunno why.
So that was an Orion 1 CNG, the first model Orion? Well it still used that crappy Cummins engine!
Do anyone know if this is ths the 1st DD50G Orion5 CNG? I got on it today on N25 and #289 is out of RVC.
Nope 288 is the 1st one. 288-359 are the DD50G Orions. 287 is powered by a Cummins Engine.
#289 N25
#288 N24
#287 N22
Had 287 the other day. Very slow bus and the engine was loud, kept getting stuck in acceleration gear too. Cummins is a piece of garbage. Thank God LIB finally got smart and went with DD in 288+. Now I just wish they'd repower the Cummins buses 100-287 w/DD and things will be just dandy.
THE CUMMINS MUST DIE! (actually they are on life support!)
I think they start at #288.
How many Depots do LI Bus have?
Two. Mitchell Field in Garden City is a full time depot while RVC only operates on weekdays. Mitchell field buses operate RVC's routes on weekends.
This is the highest number sighted of Ride=On's Internationals that I can recall. Saw it this morning at about 7:40 on the 6 at Grosvenor heading towards Wheaton.
Here are some questions and observations this week at SEPTA:
1) A lot more Flyers are popping up here in Philly. They`re running on the 17, 21, 31, 38, 44/121, 65, 124/125, and this weekend I saw one on the C. The routes mentioned are the downtown routes, since I do not get out of Center City during the weekdays, and I have a rare trip outside of Center City on weekends. If you see them on any other routes, please post them on the board.
2) Highest number seen so far is 5491
3) After seeing the WMATA, CT Transit and MBTA pics, and seeing the TA Flyers in action, I noticed that the SEPTA Flyers are quite distinctive looking. The smooth rear end and the roof mounted Number indicators are unique. Any other systems with this look?
4) Will Frontier get any of the Flyers? Maybe this will quell their complaints about getting City Division rejects.
5) Does anybody noticed that the "SHOPPING SPREE" is a joke? Has the Center City District, The City Gov't and SEPTA completely f$%ked up a perfectly good route in Rt. 76. This line had riders. The "SPREE" can't even draw flies!
1) A lot more Flyers are popping up here in Philly. They`re running on the 17, 21, 31, 38, 44/121, 65, 124/125, and this
weekend I saw one on the C. The routes mentioned are the downtown routes, since I do not get out of Center City during
the weekdays, and I have a rare trip outside of Center City on weekends. If you see them on any other routes, please post
them on the board.
one time I saw a new Flyer on the 110, despite the fact that red arrow doesn't operate them. Also, the 30 bus uses them a lot, and so does the 43, at lest on Sundays.
Red Arrow has 5401-5410. I also saw 5405 at Darby Loop on the 114 (3 block) this morning.
1) A lot more Flyers are popping up here in Philly. They`re running on the 17, 21, 31, 38, 44/121, 65, 124/125, and this weekend I saw one on the C. The routes mentioned are the downtown routes, since I do not get out of Center City during the weekdays, and I have a rare trip outside of Center City on weekends. If you see them on any other routes, please post them on the board.
There is usually at least 1 Flyer on the 113 every day. As for the C, I saw one today on the South Philly to Fern Rock run (5477, 74 block). As for the other routes, I would expect them on every Callowhill route except the 15 and 46. I did see a NABI on at Broad & Lombard (Route 40) but I was a couple of blocks away, so I didn't see the number. I wouldn't be shocked to see them on the 12 in the near future, as I rode NABI 5389 (252 block) from 49/Woodland to Broad/Locust. The 12 is usually a Neoplan only line because of some width restrictions on Bainbridge and Locust Sts. In fact, the trip I was on bypassed Bainbridge and reached 22 St via Catharine St.
2) Highest number seen so far is 5491
5492 and 5493 are now at Southern. I would expect the remaining 7 to arrive within the next week or so.
3) After seeing the WMATA, CT Transit and MBTA pics, and seeing the TA Flyers in action, I noticed that the SEPTA Flyers are quite distinctive looking. The smooth rear end and the roof mounted Number indicators are unique. Any other systems with this look?
None that I'm aware of. Some Canadian systems that have Flyers w/out A/C (and Seattle as well) actually have rear windows.
4) Will Frontier get any of the Flyers? Maybe this will quell their complaints about getting City Division rejects.
Probably not. The turn off onto Swede St leading into Norristown Transportation Center will pose problems for the low floors - at least that's what I've heard.
5) Does anybody noticed that the "SHOPPING SPREE" is a joke? Has the Center City District, The City Gov't and SEPTA completely f$%ked up a perfectly good route in Rt. 76. This line had riders. The "SPREE" can't even draw flies!
Surprise, surprise, surprise...
yes lately i seen a ton of nabi on the 40
I know that the New York Bus Service has them and QSC had one as a test but I wish all DOT bus companies had them. They would look cool with the logos of GBL, JBL and TCC on them.
Ray
Not to worry, they'll eventually get to the NYCDOT operators also. You have to remember that 2003 emissions regulations will spell the demise of a fair bit of the older GMS RTS's and MCI Classics.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.com
I hope so.
Ray
P.S. Happy holidays to you all! I won't believe online until at least January 2nd. See you next year everyone.
Sorry, won't BE online until next year.
Ray
Or the G4500s for that matter. What a smooth looking bus!
-F.
The December 2001 issue of Bus Ride Magazine has a full spread ad covering two pages featuring the New Flyer Invero transit bus. This is the first close up look I've had of the bus and I must say that it looks great. It's not a box but is streamlined and has some style to it. The interior looks large, well lit and pleasant. The driver's compartment is modern and looks super comfortable. In fact, the model sitting in the drivers seat looks so comfortable that he could be ready to fall asleep.
All in all it looks like a super bus but who knows if it will be successful or if New Flyer will even survive long enough to build it in mass quantities.
I hope so; it looks a LOT better than anything else out there. IF New Flyer goes belly-up, someone else better get hold of that design. It is a low-floor that is both stylish and state-of-the-art.
-F.
I wholeheartedly agree; in fact, I've been sounding the horn for this lady ever since she was first introduced.
I believe this bus is exactly the 21st Century adrenaline shot that NYC Transit needs right now.
"I believe this bus is exactly the 21st Century adrenaline shot that NYC Transit needs right now."
I couldn't agree with you more Bingham C50. The problem is can the Invero take the daily pounding and abuse in NYC and still be a reliable bus? The D60 artics have been troublesome and NYCT DOB is currently down on New Flyer products. Maybe New Flyer should provide some Inveros free of charge for a year of testing. Hell, send them to 126th Street Depot and run them on the M15 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Just bring them in for refueling, servicing, cleaning and any maintenance or repairs needed and then stick them back out on the road. That's what we did at 126 when we received the 1993 TMC RTS 8400 series buses. Those buses ran constantly on the M15 sometimes even 24 hours a day and got the living shit beat out of them. They held up well though and proved their worth. If the Invero can perform the same way then NYCT DOB shouldn't hesitate to order them.
I hope so too. I just looked at photos of the Invero on New Flyer's web site. That is one nice-looking bus. I don't ride the buses that often, I generally stick to the subways, but I think the Invero should be tested here. I bet it would be a hit.
I tend to disagree on the Invero. I saw it up close and personal at APTA '99 in Orlando. It's alot prettier in pictures.
It does have a very comfortable cockpit, though. But the comments I heard about it from people who inspected it were not good at all.
Reminds me of when we got the Nova LFS demo. It was love at first sight for me. What a dream ride too. Drove wonderfully. Then maintenance looked it over and laughed for hours.
What a disappointment.
-Joe
No NYCT bus runs 24 hours straight. It would run out of fuel! NYCT buses aren't scheduled to run more than 21-1/2 hours without pulling in.
David
Sorry to correct you David but NYCT transit buses can and do stay out 24 hours a day. With a 125 gallon fuel tank they can stay out longer if necessary. A few years back I used to have the last run on the M66 on Saturday evenings. The bus I received for the second half of my run was the bus that started the day as the hawk (night bus) on the M66. That bus would pull out of the depot at around 1:30 am on Saturday morning and I would pull it in around 2:15 am on Sunday morning.The defect card had the signatures of all the drivers who had driven it during that time frame thus proving that the bus had spent over 24 hours away from the depot.The first time I drove the run I was curious to see how much fuel the bus had burned in that time frame so I stayed and watched as the bus was refueled. The bus in question was a 1993 TMC RTS 8400 series. It took a total amount of 67 gallons of fuel meaning that it still had 58 gallons left in the tank when I pulled it in.
The majority of NYCT buses at 126th Street Depot spend an average of 16-22 hours in service. In fact on Sundays, the last run on the M66 receives the hawk bus as it's second half bus. It doesn't stay out 24 hours but comes close. In my almost 10 years of driving at 126 I've never seen a bus run out of fuel. The only conceivable way that could happen is if it wasn't refueled when it returned to the depot.
I meant 20-1/2 hours, not 21-1/2, though that just makes my case even less compelling < g >. In any case, it's unusual for a NYCT "hawk" not to be scheduled to pull in after its first half, except in cases where there are "dropbacks" (for the uninitiated: driver keeps bus during meal break instead of pulling it in). If I remember, I'll check up on that during the week.
David
I checked further. The longest time a NYCT bus is supposed to be out on the road is indeed 20-1/2 hours. However, it's not a hard-and-fast rule and exceptions are occasionally made in the schedules. 25 hours, though, seems excessive.
David
Interesting news. Thanks David. Perhaps the reason the hawk bus stayed out in excess of 24 hours on the M66 is due to the short length of the line which would mean that much less fuel is burned as opposed to a North/South line.
Absolutely. If this bus is a reliable piece of equipment that works as good as it looks, it could be a real shot in the arm for NYCTA.
-F.
And this time I was on the bus (well I just got on). Waiting for the N27 in Greenvale it is late as usual. But it comes and I get on and sit down. Then I hear the engine shut off. Then he starts it back up again but the buzzer is sounding constantly, there's no air pressure!
The driver pumps the brakes, shuts down and pumps again. This was going on for 15 minutes, then dispatch finally said to stay put and they will send another bus. We were stuck just north of N.Blvd on Glen Cove road, blocking a lane of traffic. The driver tried to get the reflector signs out of the box in the front but it wouldn't open. The driver did not know what tranmission the bus used when I asked him, I seem to remember it being a ZF but I wasn't sure (usually Cummins use ZF's). Allison is a better transmission IMHO.
Anyway several passengers outside did get on and decided to wait inside (it was pretty cold out tonight). The engine and heat couldn't run because when it was started up that annoying buzz began again.
Maint truck on the scene in about 25 min since first report. He started it up from the back, but could not fix the problem. The other bus came about 10 minutes later, 35 minutes from the first call.
It was on of the new Series 50's (yeah!) and we were on our way as soon as everyone reboarded.
The maint guy said that it will 143 (the broken Cummins) will have to be towed. All the drivers seem to know that Cummins is garbage, they just do not look suprised when there's a problem.
Well today I had fun with Cummins, not that I actually moved an inch in the POS bus. Man any LIB driver who has to put up with these things deserves a big raise!
Uhhh, with all due respect...
If the air compressor failed, what does that have to do with Cummins? You stated the engine re-started several times; there was simply no air pressure for the brakes and suspension. That is NOT a Cummins problem.
But this all started after the Cummins stalled out. When I got on there was no buzz and things were hunky dory. Then the engine stalls, he re-starts it and the buzzer continues to sound. Puts his foot on the accelerator the bus won't move, due to no air pressure. Maybe it wasn't an engine problem but if the damn Cummins didn't stall maybe it wouldn't have happened. Again most maint. guys I've spoken to think Cummins is crap.
Actually, the loss of air may be the cause of the stall. If the air system goes, the brakes will sometimes lock. With the transmission in gear, the engine would have stalled immediately when the driver tried to pull away. That would have resulted in the scenario of the engine restarting just fine, but thge warning buzzers about the air pressure.
Why blame the Cummins. If any thing I would say it was either an air leak or a failed compressor. The engine management system was probably doing it's job by not letting the bus move and also the alarm is there to warn that the air for brakes etc is low.
Usaully if people like Mechanics say something is crap that usually means they are either not used to working that type of engine or have not been trained well enough on it.
While the cause of the 143 breakdown may not be the Cummins, then why are the Cummins buses having so many problems? They seem to breakdown more frequently than the others. Also if Cummins is so great why doesn't NYCT use them in all their buses? The reason is simple, Cummins just doesn't have the reliability of Detroit Diesel and Allison products.
In the past year almost all the LIB breakdowns I've seen have been with the Cummmins buses 100-287.
QTrain, Because it is a Cummins engined bus it may not be the engine that is the problem. Maybe some of the older Bustalkers can remember Detriot's having problems in the early day's.
Over here in the UK, FIRSTBUS who are the parent company of a lot of American bus lines are farming out a lot of there fleet maintenance to Makers Dealership's. For example they have gathered a lot of Volvo engined buses in one area and a lot of say Scania engined buses in another part of the country. They put all the regular and emergency repair work to "Out of House" approved dealers. Most of these dealerships have Factory trained mechanics with all the latest technology and tools for quick and cost effective fleet care.
Some of the "Old school Mechanics" just could not come up to speed with todays modern electronic's. The Optare Solo over here is the NABI 30 something or other over with you it has NO wiring loom as such but depends on a "Ring Main" type of electrial distribution.
Well I have to admit that Orions aren't that well made buses, so that could be a factor in all the problems. I'd still love to compare miles between breakdowns of NYCTA's RTS's and Orions. I have a feeling the RTS's (when they were newer) ran longer between breakdowns.
One word on cummins from hot Miami.
While the M11 and the ISC (C8.3) have not measured up, the L10 is one heck of a reliable motor.
Yeah, the L10 is a real workhorse for sure. I LOVE it!
-F.
That could be true. When a machine is new to a mechanic, they are quick to call it crap. Example: Computer technicians who slam the iMac. I for one like the Cummins ISL; it is a nice, smooth transit engine that beats up the Series 50 and takes its lunch money.
-F.
I agree very much with that! But my only problem is that you really can't compare a Detroit Diesel Series 50 to a Cummins ISL/L10. Now maybe you could compare the 50 to a C 8.3/ISC but only to a certain extent. The Series 50 is really in a class by itself, because its the only 4 cycle, 4 cylander engine. Cummins doesn't make any engine like that, everything is 6 cylender on their end. The real competition with Detroit and Cummins would be the Detroit Series 40 to compete with the Cummins ISC and ISL and the Series 60 with the Cummins ISM.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
We ran the DD 50 head to head with the C8.3, and M11.
The DD50 won. Reliable and faster.
Now, we should run it against the ISL.
Somehow I get the feeling the ISL would beat it up and take its lunch money. It's bigger and I would think it to have more torque.
-F.
You have a point there. Wait a sec...isn't the ISB or ISC series a four-cylinder Cummins? I know they come in the Thomas SLF.
-F.
Oh yes, and e-mail me ASAP, DaShawn. Thanks!
The driver did not know what tranmission the bus used when I asked him, I seem to remember it being a ZF but I wasn't sure (usually Cummins use ZF's). Allison is a better transmission IMHO.
IIRC, the LI Bus Orions with the Cummins engines have the Allison transmission (I think it's a B400R, but don't hold me to it). There's a distinctive lurch after the bus stops with a Cummins L10/ZF or L10/Voith combo (the WMATA bus fans could verify that for me, particularly with some of the 1988-90 vintage Flxibles).
Yeah, that sounds about right. Usually a Voith is found behind the L10 (nee ISL); it sounds good in a new Gillig but I'll bet it sounds even better in a Flx.
-F.
Quite a surprise on Main Street, Hampton Bays, today: A GMC bus sporting a tall transmission tower at the rear. It was a 1978 GMC painted for a Sag Harbor FM broadcasting station, WLNG 92.1 FM. They were broadcasting from a sidewalk display, Santa, Frosty, and local businesses there too. The bus has a neat, clean paint job that makes the bus appear newer than the registration sticker says. Would it be a NY MTA cast-off? Thanks. Joe
I don't know anything about the bus you describe, but it reminded me of the 35-foot New Flyer D900 I saw at Harran back in October. It had a great wrap paint job which was an ad for WBAB 102.3 FM. I assume it makes occasional publicity stops for that radio station. Sounds like some L.I. radio stations are making some good use of old buses!
1978? I assume it is a slopeback RTS?
-F.
It looks like one of those retro-fitted slopebacks. For the full view, go to http://www.wlng.com/default.htm.
For a better view of the retro-fitted slopeback part of the bus, go to http://www.wlng.com/whoweare.htm.
Wow...what a cool bus! If you know anyone interested in a model of that thing, I'd love to build one.
-F.
Fred, try contacting the promotions department of the station via e-mail. Sounds like a cool thing for a giveaway at remote broadcasts. Sure is better than keychains, T-shirts, etc.
You might have to build one at your own expense as a sample. Then if approved you'd have to tell them how quickly you can build a certain quantity of them.
The station broadcasts over the eastern part of Long Island and has a small audience, except in the summer with the Hamptons crowd. There is a large outlet mall (Tanger in Riverhead). With the exception of the outlet mall, I don't know how many people visit their remote broadcasts. Therefore I don't think they'd want massive quantites.
Go For It......keep us posted.
Will do; thanks!
-Fred
The website shows a sharp looking RTS. However I think its a square-back. The sides look flush unlike the modified slope-backs that ran for Bee-Line (Westchester) that are now running for Commercial Driver Training School in West Babylon, NY.
If you could have gotten the serial number off the registration or builders plate then the question could have been answered with a visit to the production lists at www.omot.org
I don't think it's a NYC Transit RTS bus, since the WLNG bus is a 35-ft bus. It's possible that it could be an ex-Bee Line RTS, as Westchester County did own some 35-ft RTS buses.
That sounds about right....I noticed right off the bat that it was a 35-footer. Kinda reminds me of the ones in Blacksburg that are soon to be retired; we hope to get one for the museum.
-F.
I saw this posted on the S79 yestrday(Orion V-#6340)-it says that beginnng 12/26, the X10,X11,X16,X17 and X19 will return to Church street going uptown and use Broadway again going downtown. Anyone who is willing to see what WTC looks like up close should try to take these lines. It did not say anything about the other express routes(like the X1 or X29 for example). Are all routes returning to their regular routes on 12/26?
It's only the S.I. express routes you noted for now. But the other S.I. and Brooklyn express routes will return to Church Street in the future.
This link has all the info and maps -
http://www.MTA.info/mta/downtown.htm#express
All the info is posted on the website as well as .PDF maps of inbound and outbound service as it will be on Wednesday, 12/26.
I think they may be trying a few lines to see how the traffic flows first (they might only have a lane or two open on Church St, i don't know). Eventually you will probably see everything go back to its pre-9/11 state.
How's this for an odd spotting? I just got word from one of my email contacts in Texas, and he tells me that Gun Hill D60HF 5403 is in San Antonio, apparently being tested by VIA Transit. (1) Can anyone confirm that this is the case and (2) why would NYC Transit lease out a bus to another system when there is proported to be a bus shortage?
I think the MTA does do that from time to time because I have a pic of #5414 running in Jersey City. Taken On 12/20/01.
Proof Below (Since lately my Validity In Post Has been recently challeneged):
(Shown Here In Jersey City On Garfield Avenue & Caven Point, As A Reminder there is NO service centers for any parts on this bus in this area!!!!)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
If it were in service for another TA, wouldn't it have some sort of marker? I imagine even the most regular rider is going to balk at seeing an MTA bus outside of New York, especially in Texas.
Nope, NJT ran a Denver NABI Articulated in Service Testing in the Denver scheme!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Can you explain how I can post pictures on this message board?
The process is pretty simple. First, you have to upload your pictures to a web server. I notice that you use AOL: you can go to keyword 'MYFTP' and upload pictures (up to 2MB per screen name) on the AOL server.
Then, it's simply a matter of adding the HTML tag to your post to display the picture. The format is such:
img src="http://members.aol.com/mdlbigcat/picture1.jpg"
. . . of course, you replace the URL above with the actual location of your pictures. You must also add brackets ( < and > ) at the beginning and end of your tag; this is very important. (I left them out above because I didn't want web browsers to think the above was actually an image.)
Good luck! If you have troubles, you might try consulting an HTML tutorial -- there are dozens on the internet; just search Yahoo! for them.
C
is this the orion VI or Orion VII?
That is the Orion VI.
OK, I'm gonna try this; let me know if it comes out.
-F.
OK, I'm gonna try this; let me know if it comes out.
-F.
img src=<"http://members.aol.com/fredman176/myhomepage/metrobus.jpg>
For those of you who didn't know, WMATA operates the shuttle buses at the Redskins' games at FedEx Field. Buses shuttle fans between the stadium and USAirways Arena, Cheverly Station, Landover Station, and New Carrollton Station. There is also an employee/media shuttle but I am unsure of its exact run. Most of the buses were 4000 Series Orion Vs. There were some artics, mainly NABIs but at least one or two MANs were on site, and there were some Flxible Metro-Ds. The unit numbers I can recall seeing are 4366, 4368, 9717, and 4001. I was only able to see one route block (4368) which had a B on it, meaning that that paticular bus came out of Bladensburg. Do all the buses for the Redskins games come from there? If so, do artics get pulled off the X2 to accomodate the Redskins? I would think since the J2 doesn't use Montgomery's artics on Sundays, it would make more sense to use the Montgomery artics at FedEx. Also, when the Redskins play on Monday nights and service from the Metro has to start at 5, what do they do about rush hour service then? Pull extras from all the divisions for the game?
Lastly, most of the buses were signed with random things like "0 NOT IN SERVICE" or "FEDEX FIELD" with no route number. 9717's rear display was saying something which I couldn't make out after the game but it was alternating between two displays. I think they should progam the signs with valid readings and coordinate with the Redskins to make "route numbers". Presumebly, the queues for the buses to the Metro are numbered based on the station they go to so they already have a start to the system. For instance, route 1 can be USAirways Arena, 2 can be Addison Road, 3 for Cheverly, 4 for Landover. This way, the buses will be signed correctly. I only saw one bus with a really good sign, it was 4001 signed for Cheverly. The Employee/Media shuttles were often indicated by a paper sign in the window, the bus's real sign would read "NOT IN SERVICE".
I can't wait till Summerfield Station comes along. It is to be within 1/2 mile of FedEx Field (10 minutes) and they say they will offer shuttle service. I wonder how many fans will walk from the station to the stadium. In my opinion, putting the new stadium so far from the Metro was a mistake. When they were at RFK, everyone took the Metro. Now, they got the largest NFL stadium (80,000) and no Metro. To make matters worse, Daniel Snyder charges money for everything. They wanted to charge me three dollars for an empty cup. As it is, it costs five dollars to get off the shuttle bus from the Metro (so they can take your money even though you didn't park at the stadium). Next thing you know, it will cost 10 dollars for them to take your ticket. With all that money, we could at least have a better QB than Tony Banks.
I'm pretty sure they do use a lot of the artics from Montgomery as when I've walked to the metro at White Flint from my parents across the street a couple of hours after gametime in the past, you'd see this huge line of buses come in off of 355 to Marinelli. That definitely wasn't a normal deadheading maneuver for regular Sunday service especially with the amount of artics in the line. I've never been to FedEx stadium, and I probably wont since 1.) the Redskins are pathetic, 2.) I like watching the games on tv better, so I can't be too sure where other buses come from. I know that another Sunday I was driving down 295, near rte. 50, a slew of Southern Division Orion's were headed in that direction, so those maybe used as well.
Since the Redskins do suck, WMATA wont have to worry about Monday Night bus allocations for a long time. It must be a lot of fun to figure that one out when they do have to do it, though. Maybe Tony Banks should be driving the bus rather than being a passenger for game day. Put Kent Graham in for a change, Marty!!!!
You sound like the callers on WJFK after the game...
LOL, I try to stick with these guys, but that lack of effort really makes me upset at them. I'm definitely not a bandwagon fan, but boy are they underachieving. I'm glad Darrell is coming back for one more year. He can outplay any of those young guys out there.
It will be great once that blue line extension is open. I'm sure there will be some sort of a shuttle running even though it will be a half mile from the stadium. Danny sure knows what he's doing by ripping everyone off who goes to the game. I'm surprised he isn't lobbying to have the games on pay per view.
LOL. Maybe he will charge people to leave the stadium. My friend and I figured after the 3 dollar cup incident, perhaps he would start charging for boarding and getting of escalators, ticket stubs, and various other ridiculous things.
Good God. Sounds like what Boss Hogg did on "Dukes Of Hazzard" when Rot Orbison rolled into town; there was no cover charge to get into the Boar's Nest but you did have to pay 10 bucks just to leave. :)
-F.
Whoops...I meant ROY Orbison. My fingers are a real bunch of Travelling Wilburys on this keyboard...LOL.
-F.
Yes, some of those buses definitely come from Montgomery Division. I often see them on the beltway deadheading and they're usually MAN artics.
Wayne
Here's what I want to ride to the Redskins game:
It sounds like there's plenty of them running around from the buses Oren saw! 4001 is a Flx Metro E and 9717 is a Metro D. Years ago, a couple of the Flx New Looks used to sport around a message painted on top above the windows about the Redskins winning Super Bowl XVII. I belive one was 8563, but can't remember off hand. Then, after we won in 1992, one of the Flx Metro B's had a message at the top congratulating them about that win as well. It was funny seeing these buses running around years after they won. I was on 8563 about 10 years after they won XVII and it still had the message on it.
The parade in 1983 also featured two Flx New Looks with the Redskins inside of them as well. It was really hard to see them since it was pouring out and they were all stuffed inside the buses.
So Metro will still run a shuttle from Summerfield to Fed Ex Field when that station opens in a few years. That's nice because I feel that when the Eagles open their new playpen in '03, which will be the same distance from the Pattison Station like Fed Ex Field will be from Summerfield, I feel that the cheap bastards at SEPTA will make us poor Philadelphia Eagles Fans WALK from the subway to the stadium. This policy will kill off any public transit usage to the stadium completely, and fill the teams pockets with the EXCESSIVELY OVERPRICED parking rate the team will charge. Oh well, that's the price we'll pay for loyalty to our football teams, we pay an arm and a leg (along with a few organs) to go see a game live and in person.
For me, I'll continue to see the game from the best seat in the house, the couch in front of my BIG SCREEN TV. (36" 2 tuner PIP)
I'm not completely sure that they would run a shuttle. I was guessing that they might since its about a half mile or so, but I could be totally wrong on that. I suppose it depends on how many major roads you have to cross the get over to it. It was nice when they played at RFK because you were right there at the subway station.
They could have put a stadium near a subway station but they didn't. It took an hour from the time the game ended until we got on the beltway because there was no officer controlling traffic into Landover Crossing. Also, the beltway was slow and the rain didn't make things better.
I remember the buses had a PR message that said "REDSKINS WILL WIN TODAY" which I only saw once on a Monday morning when they were playing a Monday night game. They should use that at the games.
Oh cool! Bet that was a classic moment....wish I could have been there!
-F.
Yes, that's right! After an unfortunate hacking incident involving the server (not the first board), the Hard Drive was erased. Now, thanks to me, vBulletin is up and running, with a Bus and Subway forum, like the previous two. So point your clicker to here and register your name! Have fun!
Copy and paste the link below into your browser. I am selling NEW & UNUSED FULLY LICENSED MTA PRODUCTS
http://pro.channeladvisor.com/storefront/default.asp?spid=20048613&va=true
Gun Hill depots 5250 is known as a 1999-2000 New-Flyer Arctic when in reality it is really a 1998 New-Flyer previously numbered 1110.
Again, This is something most of us if not all of us already know! You are 3 years late!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I knew this 3 years ago myself, I was wondering why the Urban Mass Transit Club didn't update there info.
You used the wrong form of "their". My usage 3 words ago (from the "3") is the correct usage.
8300 with Christmas lights was seen decorated a few weeks ago in Staten Island, the bus had an array of stuffed animals in the window.
The Zerega maintainane facility should be used as a training ground for bus operators old and new. One of each of the MTA's buses should be placed at that facility for new as well as old operators to train on and qualify to operate.
Zerega is a MAINTENANCE facility, there is no room in that INDOOR facility for a training track. If Zerega was meant to be a Training Ground, then it would've been built as such and called, Zerega Traninig Facility. Zerega was errected to eventually replace the East New York Central Maintenance Shops which is set to eventually close down.
Ya Get It?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Not an indoor track, but on the streets of the Bronx.
That's already being done, It's called line training. You are making absolutely no sense at all.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
The 2nd floor of Zerega is occupied by the Training Center, this is where old and new operators report for "Road Training" for new operators, "19A qualification" for old operators, Customer Service, and Performance Evaluation for operators who have had accidents back to back, they also have 4 simulators there. They have several Buses there for the Road and 19A qualification.
What color signs will the hybrid Orions have, green or orange?
Well, hmmm...they are NOT 2001 models, are they?
So they MUST have the green signs (which they do)...afaik, only most 2001 bus models have the orange signs, for the most part (with the exception of a few older buses, like Command's Orion 5.501 CNG #4961 and MTA NYCT Orion V #522).
Green signs...have you seen numerous photos of this bus model on people's websites? I think you should do some more web surfing before you come back and say anything here...theat's how I got my info...maybe you should, too!
Carlton
Temper, temper!
>>>Temper, temper!
Jooooooeee!
C'mon...at least I didn't vent out my anger totally...if I had that much to being with anyway...I know what you're gonna say..Be Nice, Be Nice, Carlton....and tell Bob... Whoops...how'd that get in there?
'Till Next time...
Carlton
Is the TA considering putting turnstiles on buses to ease loading an unloading and to keep the buses on schedule?
Turnstiles would be a turn for the worse, not better.
Though it would be a turn for the rear door instead of the front.
Who is monitoring this turnstile? You sound like those fools who insisted the rear door of the artics should be used for entry as well.
No one, only the driver of the bus.
The driver is at the front...
REAR DOOR ENTRY? Sheeze...why the hell would they do that? That's a robbery for the TA with all those fares out the window!
-F.
Well, in Jamaica, the rear door of the buses that have them is used for entry and the front door is used for exiting. There are buses that actually have a turnstile. However, there is a conductor monitoring it. In America, where the driver is the only employee on the bus, this wouldn't exactly work. I mean, In subway stations, sometimes people go under the turnstiles, so I agree that the TA would lose some moneyh with the amount of fare evasion going on.
>>> Well, in Jamaica, the rear door of the buses that have them is used for entry and the front door is used for exiting <<<
Front engine buses, with rear entry and a conductor collecting fares was quite common in Great Britain and all through Europe until the mid ‘60s. British buses even had the driver's compartment separated from the passenger compartment in many buses (here is an example of a bus built in 1965). In Paris, the Renault TN6 had a back porch with an entry at the center of the back of the bus (here is an example of one of the last ones in 1966). Labor cost cutting doomed the bus conductor's job. Usually the entry door was behind the rear wheels with no seats at the back of the bus, and the conductor sat on an elevated seat over the rear wheel on the curb side. Loading was much faster since everyone would board quickly into the standing area, the conductor would close the rear door and give the go signal (usually two tugs on the signal cord), and then collect the fares, including making change and handing out tickets while the bus was en route to the next stop.
Tom
>>> Well, in Jamaica, the rear door of the buses that have them is used for entry and the front door is used for exiting <<<
Front engine buses, with rear entry and a conductor collecting fares was quite common in Great Britain and all through Europe until the mid ‘60s. British buses even had the driver's compartment separated from the passenger compartment in many buses (here is an example of a bus built in 1965). In Paris, the Renault TN6 had a back porch with an entry at the center (here is an example of one of the last ones in 1966). Labor cost cutting doomed the bus conductor's job. Usually the entry door was behind the rear wheels with no seats at the back of the bus, and the conductor sat on an elevated seat over the rear wheel on the curb side. Loading was much faster since everyone would board quickly into the low floor standing area, the conductor would close the rear door and give the go signal (usually two tugs on the signal cord), and then collect the fares, including making change and handing out tickets while the bus was en route to the next stop.
Tom
I see; I wondered how that worked. Thanks!
-F.
[REAR DOOR ENTRY? Sheeze...why the hell would they do that?]
I believe some operators in North America with articulated buses use a proof of payment method (honor system, with checkers) so that rear doors can be used for boarding as well as exiting, making dwell times at stops shorter. Ottawa is one that comes quickly to mind, but I recollect a few others. And for those of you skeptical about proof of payment, it seems to work very well on the Newark City Subway and Hudson-Bergen Light Rail.
Thank you for setting these people straight, Sid. I was going to tell them about POP systems, but you beat me to it. POP is the boarding/payment standard on a lot of busy transit systems around the world. With a few fare procedure adjustments, it could just as easily work in NYC.
That is true. I've heard with the 65 and the 52, SEPTA has an official at the back door to check for passes and transfers, and those with money and tokens board through the front door. It's convenient for the very busy stops.
No it couldn't. Yesterday morning I boarded a 3 train at 72. I had to hold my bag over my head; the doors wouldn't have closed otherwise. How do you expect a fare inspector to get through such a crowd? In effect, when the trains are crowded, no fares would be charged.
Besides, we have nice, new, shiny turnstiles that do the job quite well.
Very true; at that point you might as well have a troll at the steps asking for your favorite color, a la Monty Python!
-F.
In Sao Paulo, Brazil, the buses have turnstiles, and the buses there are way busier than buses in the US. It works very well, I never saw any abuse of it.
>>> In Sao Paulo, Brazil, the buses have turnstiles <<<
Are they front loading buses with the turnstile next to the driver, or loading further back with only the turnstile to prevent fare evasion? My dim memory of some of the pre-war buses in New York in the ‘40s includes a light weight turnstile at the front of the bus. I doubt that it was automatically coin controlled, since the coins at that time landed on a flat surface for the B/O to inspect and drop into the lower part of the box. It was either just a counting device and a method to force rear exit, or the B/O released it when he saw the coins in the fare box.
Tom
All the buses are front loading with the turnstile up front. Many buses use a paper farecard for entry, it's all automatic. One of the bus companies have some articulated buses with a turnstile further back, and a conductor to make change if nessesary.
In case anyone wanted to see some Sao Paulo buses, look here:
http://www.oubeck.com/reports/brazil/br97.htm
If these are front loading buses, I guess it is required that passengers exit through the rear door, unlike with American buses, although it is prefered that passengers do so.
That is correct. How many recall the Curitiba demonstration of about 10 years ago in lower Manhattan? These had turnstiles on the platform!
Looking at a slide of Lebanon, Pa in the early 1970's I saw a turnstile at the front door of an old look GM. It did work, but is not necessary in today's fare environments.
Nope, but last thing I heard is that they would have super strong lasers at the entry point. It would burn a hole through your legs if you don't pay your fare.
I understand that RTS's with crome rims slid under wet conditions that's why they went back to using the steele rims.
Don't you mean Alcoa aluminum rins? Ans how do they slide on the rims when there's rubber underneath?
-F.
What I mean is that the rims are light weight and in wet conditions, the bus slides.
The rims were very noises after the brakes get heated up. During the snowy wearther if you put a snow ball into one of the holes it would boil vary fast.
Robert
They sure made the buses look nice.
>>> the rims are light weight and in wet conditions, the bus slides. <<<
To reduce the weight that much, the rims would have to have helium compartments in them.
Tom
Oh, I see; in that case the metal ones are better. (And they look better on NYC RTSes!).
-F.
That would be "chrome" and the RTS's have aluminum rims. The problem was that they tend to cut the tires.
How would aluminum rims cut the tires? That's odd...
-F.
To all,
I normally do not post updates of my website on BusTalk, but since this concerns people who post here, I am making this exception.
Due to the complaints from BusTalkers and other people, I have removed CometCursor from my site. Too many people said it turned them away from my site. Because of that, I have removed it and ask that you revisit to take in all my site has to offer.
Since I am human, if there is a page that escaped the change, please e-mail me.
Sincerely,
Oren H.
Webmaster of Oren's Transit Page
http://www.orenstransitpage.com
According to Trevor, 8021 would start the numbering of the Ironbound Garage D-4000's. However this bus was seen and rode on today on the 403-Erial line in South Jersey. Also seen was 8023 on the 401. The sightings of these buses meant that all of the 61xx, 62xx, 64xx, and 65xx, (with a couple of 63xx, and 67xx's) are gone from the Southern Division routes. So which number will start the North Jersey buses?
Yeah, There has been a serious rearrangement of the 8000 Series. After a serious investigation to the Acceptance Lot. There has been a array of reassignments.
1) 8000-8039 are now South Jersey Bound Buses.
2) 8040 and above are Central and Northen Buses (8047 Spotted On The 137 Line).
3) 8900s are the D400Ns as previously reported.
4) 7812-7893 are at the Acceptance Lot.
5) There IS 5 D4000s @ Ironbound Currently, Numbers Unknown
I will continually keep my ears to the ground as to assignments.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
137 Line is from Howell Garage. And Howell was to get the 3rd Batch of D4000's. So I guess Howell got a early christmas surprise.
Howell was NOT to get the 3rd batch. Howell was 4th Batch D4000s with the D4501 Cruisers. There were ONLY suppose to get the D4000Ns which are here in this 3rd batch.
Sorry you are wrong!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Howell will be last in this order. All previous MCI and Eagle orders had Howell first, and in the case of the CNGs, they were the sole garage. NJT agreed to make Howell last based on complaints from other commuters about coddling the US-9 passengers with new equipment first.
I know 8042 and 8043 are among the 5 units that are at Ironbound. I will post the other numbers when I get them!
Peace!
Dashawn
www.transitalk.com
I rode the full trip of Command B-100 today(riding on #4903 there and #4977 back). I could see the guide a ride posted at quite a number of the stops, but at the guide a ride on Quentin Road and Nostrand Avenue-the route posted was the B3. The B3 goes nowhere near this stop. Did DOT make a mistake, or are they planning to put schedules there?
B100-#4903 TMC RTS
B100-#4977-CNG RTS(EX MTA BUS #8397)
Correction: Bus #4977 is Ex MTA #8399.
8397 is somewhere hiding out. #8397 is the ex Methanol Bus turned Hybrid Electric.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
These 3 buses were all sold to Command Bus Co. 8397, 8398 and 8399, which everybody already knows.
Um Yeah, Kinda knew that! If you would look at the post prior to mines, I was correcting someone's mistake. Nice Try! NEXT......
You are giving me no time of day at this site, but it's cool.
No I'm giving you plenty of time, not that it's my place to. Your just not using it wisely, like looking back a day or two before reposting or correcting something that has already been done.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I'm online in an internet cafe, my time on the computer is paid for I have to govern myself accordingly.
Must be a mistake. There are no plans to do anything to the B3.
David
Just wanted to wish each and everybody here a very Merry Christmas. Also a very Merry Christmas to the ones that are representing the red white and blue proudly at Ground 0 and overseas. You make us proud.
Happy Holidays!
#951 Amtrak AEM-7
The True Red White and Blue!
www.transitworld.org
Amen.
-F.
Even with the new order of MCI's beind leased to NYCT, will the TA choose a newer series bus design or stay with the D4500 cruiser make?
I once heard that a bus slid up on a parked car in the rain. It wasn't the drivers falt, the car was double parked and the engine shifted the bus accidentally.
I think you just found the cure to double parking!!
No vehicle was damaged at all.
This reminds me of the other day...
The bus approached the stop, and there was a limo there (big suprise...). I assumed we'd go around it, but we just pulled up behind it, with half the bus still in the cross-street. We started moving up really, really, slowly... then we stopped right before the bumper. Then (and remember, this was under the driver's control, not an accident), we "gently nudged" the limo back onto the road. Pretty damn funny from the passenger's POV.
Did the driver of the limo feel it?
Probably, he started driving away.
Sounds about right. Usually the trannies behind those tend to jerk a lot and are bad out of the box. Our 94 Gilligs with the Series 50 are living proof; they break down frequently and live in the shop!
-F.
Most Series 50's I've ridden (Orions and RTS's) seem to have pretty smooth transmissions to me. The Cummins Orions at LIB have lousy transmissions, those things jerk ALOT. Not to mention burps, gurgle sounds and other weird stuff. I guess you can thank Cummins for that entertainment.
Well, in either case you really have to look at the gearbox. Our Series 50s are only junk due to the trannies behind them; who knows, maybe a Voith would have done them good. They run tight behind our Cummins ISLs for sure!
-F.
>>> I guess you can thank Cummins for that entertainment <<<
John;
Why do you have such a hard on for Cummins? You seem to blame them if a transmission or drive train makes noise, or if the bus gets a flat tire or the head sign is incorrect. The engine is not responsible for everything that goes wrong with a bus.
Tom
Very true.
-F.
Merry Christmas to everyone...
Spotted to the last N21 going to Glen Cove tonight with 5 passengers.
Tomorrow, Christmas I will be headed to Flushing for a few hours. Santa please get me my Christmas present, she has dragon clips and is sweet and mystical.
HAPPY HOLIDAY BEE-YAAAATCH!
Na, I'm only kiding, really, here it is....
Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays (For Those That Don't Directly Celebrate Christmas) To You and Yours, and May god bless us with many more.
Regards,
The TransiTALK Family
www.transitalk.com
Thank you and same toyou in return.
Merry Christmas to you too Trevor. Enjoy your holiday! This goes ou to all the bustalkers as well. Merry Christmas you guys!
Tone
Thanks, and the same to you.
Thanks the same to you.
#951 Amtrak AEM-7
Happy Holidays to the entire BusTalk family.
Likewise to everybody here on the BusTalk board!
You too and keep giving us the gifts of photos and info on new developments.
What happened to this bus? Was it sent back or is it at a base shop?
That bus is in regular service. I've seen 6360 at least five times in the past month. Mainly on the M4 and M5.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
This bus was sent back to Nova bus corp. it had a list of mechanical problems.
RIIIIIIGGHHHHTTT, If it was sent back to Nova, then explain why I saw this bus AGAIN....on Sunday evening on 6th Avenue in Village heading uptown on the M5?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I was reading a copy a it today and one of the stores was on 9-11. One of the pix shows a MCI the was completly gutted out, all that left is the bottom half of the frame and part of the roff. I can't even tell the Bus #. Dose anyone know the # of this bus.
I wish I could have scaned it in but 1)I don't have a scaner and 2) It isnot my copy so I can take it with me.
Robert
Isn't it 1998 out of CAS?
You can read the article at www.masstransitmag.com
The Other Side Of The Tracks: A Website Devoted To The New York City Subway
It could have been, but the bus was totaly gone.
Robert
Can anyone subscribe to Mass Transit magazine or do you have to be in the job?
$48 a year in US, $70 a year in Canada and Mexico, $99 a year (airmail) for all other countries. I imagine these figures are all in US funds.
Mass Transit
PO Box 450
Fort Atkinson WI 53538-0450
I spent the weekend dancing tango. On Monday, I rode the buses and subways. From South Ferry, I rode the M15 to 125th Street. I then rode the M15 to E Broadway to take the bus to City Hall. (I didn't know limited buses ran to City Hall. I thought the limiteds went only to South Ferry.) The S/B M15 driver told the passengers he was running ahead of schedule 5 minutes and would be penalized. I told him not to worry. I was going to write him for commendation for running hot. He said "NOOOOO. Please don't do that."
Then it was the M103 to 8th Street where I caught a limited M101 to 50th to see the train exhibit at Citigroup Center (53rd and Lex), then back on the bus to 125th. I got off at Lex and took the S/B M101 to 14th Street, then the subway back to my hotel.
Later in the evening (9 p.m.), I took the Q32 over the Queensboro Bridge. The B/O almost missed picking me at 42nd and Madison. I waved to her and she stopped. She apologized that there was some miscommunication with another B/O. I guess she was trying to say by using hand signals the operators understood who was going ahead of the other. There are two bus only lanes and they couldn't agree who was going to follow.
I plan to continue riding up and down the avenues on my next trip. I hope to cover Madison and 5th.
Michael
I rode a M101 Limited yesterday. "LIMITED" was clearly marked on the LED. A man asked the driver if the bus was "limited." The driver, having little patience because he was asked numerous times if the bus was limited, responded "No, the bus isn't limited. It's the same size as all the others."
Michael
Wash, DC
Thats pretty funny, but you can't lose your cool like that on a passenger. Some people don't know their ways around, and the driver should be there to answer any logical questions a passenger may have. I do understand people do lose their cool, but the drivers conduct wasn't the best way to do it, since bus drivers are considered "public servants" and are suppose to help out.
Jason
To be fair to the B/Os, some people don't pay attention. They just get on the bus and expect it to go where they want. One passenger got into a shouting match with the B/O because he (correctly) wouldn't make a local stop on a limited run. The LEDs on the front and side read "limited" plus there's a "limited stop" placard in the windshield.
Also, the B/Os make announcements of future stops. Sorry, this time I'm on the side of the B/Os. When they are wrong, I'll say so and when they're right, I'll say so.
Michael
Speaking of the "limited stop" placard in the windshield, how come the Q-44 Limiteds don't display that sign in the windshield? Please forgive me if this question was answered previously, I've only been on this board a few months.
Thanks for sticking up for us Michael. As a driver I've driven the M15 line and put up with the blatant stupidity of some of these people. When I had to make a limited trip I would program the destination sign to read both LIMITED and LIMITED STOPS. In addition I would place three orange and blue LIMITED signs in the front window and use the Speakeasy hands free PA system to record an announcement so when the front doors opened it would announce that this was an M15 limited bus making limited stops only. After all that I would still get people asking me if the bus was limited or not! I was really tempted to reply "Yes and so are you!"
Similar stuff happens on the railroad at New Jersey Transit. Two people standing next to each other, one person asks, "Does this train go to Elizabeth?" I say, looking at both of them, "Yes, Elizabeth." Right after I say that, the 2nd person that was standing there the whole time asks, "Does this train go to Elizabeth?" I guess they think that the answer doesn't apply to them unless they ask directly!
You ever see an M103 limited on a SATURDAY? Now THAT is confusing. The M103 doesn't display limited on its destination sign and it was posted here that the LIMITED STOPS "PR" readnig was removed so all the driver had was the purple and orange sign. I, personally, didn't care, since I was going to a limited stop and no matter what the bus did, it was going to 125th Street which was further than I wanted to go, meaning it would stop at my stop. It was pretty funny to see the people on Third Avenue waving their arms trying to stop us and the people on the bus who wanted to get off (more of the former, luckily).
According to the MTA web page, the M103 is just local service. Only the 101 has limited service on 3rd and Lex Avenues.
Michael
That is the point. Also, it was Saturday so the idea of ANYTHING running limited baffled people.
The situation I described happened on Monday, Dec 24 NOT Saturday.
Michael
He's referring to his own experience, I think.
It's just amazing, I mean I see this happening all the time when I ride the bus uptown. Once, I've been on a bus that just pulled out of the relief stand at 125th and Amsterdam with the LIMITED on the sign up top and on the side, and the placard Limited down on the bottom left-hand corner of the windshield. Yet, when we pass the next stop (127th and Amsterdam), there are people there giving us bad looks and one lady shouting at the driver, as if he committed a mortal sin in bypassing the stop.
They (Bus Operators) try everything to inform the passengers how the bus is going, even sticking the placards on the farebox and on the front door. And still passengers ask if the bus is LTD or local, or get mad if their stop is bypassed (especially if they held the bus up straggling on at the last moment, all to find out they didn't have enough money on their MetroCard). Bus Operations could paint the bus with the LIMITED sign all over, and passengers still won't know how the bus is operating. And don't let the bus be one that's only going partial route!
Let's be honest here, and tell it like it is, without all the "politically-correct" crap; people are STUPID. Just plain STUPID.
I have an orange LIMITED sign in the windshield, one taped to the farebox, the LIMITED P/R sign entered (when available) and they still ask, "Local or Express"? I've even taped a LIMITED sign to my head (honest).
Many times while stationary in the stand, I'll even get on the external PA and announce "Limited Stops", and they still ask, "Local or Express"?
It's always the same STUPID people who ask the same STUPID questions.
Then these same STUPID morons proceed to dip into their wallets and remove umpteen useless metrocards and act baffled and stunned when they hear (you stupid) "BOOP" rather than (sit down) BEEP.
(feeling better now, finished venting)
Hehe, I guess they don't know what limited means, wether it's just another name for local or for express.
If my vocation were a bus driver, by now they'd have me locked up in a sanitarium with hand cuffs chained to the bed.
I know the feeling, Bill. Believe me, it won't be long now... LOL
I drive on the Bx12, and been asked "is this the UN-Limited"?
also you can announce 100 times that the bus is limited, and someone will always want to get off where you don't stop.
What can you expect this is NY, I love it
They're not that wasy JUST in New York.
Try coming out here to California. These people out here have NO concept of how to get on the bus, have their fare ready, or go out back doors. I gave up telling them to use the rear door. They wanna go out the front, make the bus late, F-em' then THEY miss their connections. I get paid by the minute.
Try coming out here to California. These people out here have NO concept of how to get on the bus, have their fare ready, or go out back doors.
Oh, and they do here? LOL!
I gave up telling them to use the rear door. They wanna go out the front, make the bus late, F-em' then THEY miss their connections. I get paid by the minute.
Try the "Rear doors exit first" message, and open only the rear doors while a connecting bus is in the stop. When the connecting bus leaves, open the front doors, smile, and let out a hearty heart-felt "Good day".
It works wonders for those who didn't think you were speaking to them via speakerphone because you didn't turn your head and look at them personally and individually (you know, like when you announce and ask they they move themselves to the rear, and don't move unless you turn your head and look each idiot in the face).
Uh, the problem is....almost NONE of our clientele (and that's giving them a compliment...) speaks English.
Seriously!!!!
(And I am NOT going to learn THEIR language. This is the USA.)
>>> I am NOT going to learn THEIR language. This is the USA <<<
Heh Heh! My wife who was Mexican until she got her U.S. citizenship used to kid that "the Gringos stole California from us, we are just taking it back bit by bit." :-)
Of course in Orange County you have not only the Spanish language, but the largest concentration of Vietnamese in the U.S. I am surprised the automated announcements and the schedules are not in three languages.
Tom
Try the "Rear doors exit first" message, and open only the rear doors while a connecting bus is in the stop. When the connecting bus leaves, open the front doors, smile, and let out a hearty heart-felt "Good day".
The reverse has been done to me. I was on an M104 hoping to catch the waiting M79. I was standing by the rear door, ready to push and run. Unfortunately, the B/O didn't bother opening it. I tried to get his attention by ringing the bell and calling out (along with other passengers), but he ignored me, so I pushed through to the front and forced my way through the boarding crowd, at which point the B/O told me to use the back door.
Either he didn't feel like doing his job or he was deaf. In either case, he wasn't fit to be a B/O. (Fortunately, most B/O's aren't like that.)
>>> These people out here have NO concept of how to get on the bus, have their fare ready, or go out back doors. <<<
I think they are worse here than back east. I have seen women who have been waiting at a bus stop for more than ten minutes get on the bus, sit down near the front and then dig a purse out of their handbag and fish around for change for a couple of minutes. Also on a moderately crowded bus I have seen passengers sitting to the rear of the rear doors pull the stop cord, wait til the bus stops then get up and push their way to front of the bus, passing an open rear door. Part of the problem is with the bus companies though. There does not appear to be any sign on LAMTA buses directing passengers to exit at the rear door. OTOH a Long Beach bus I rode on had a very impressive sign demanding that passengers exit through the rear doors. Still many passengers departed from the front doors.
I can understand using the front doors on high floor buses by the frail elderly patrons though. They take extra time to negotiate the steps and worry that the B/O might not see them in the rear stairwell They tend to ride in the "gimp" seats at the front of the bus and probably feel safer if the B/O has a good view of them until they are clear of the bus.
Tom
I don't ride the limited buses that often, but when I do there are inevitably passengers who don't pay attention to the signs. I wonder whether NYC Bus should seriously consider numbering the limiteds with a different route number than the local service. For example, the M1 limited would become the M201; the M2 limited, the M202, and so on (or something similar to this). This has been discussed on BusTalk before, but with the continuing confusion of passengers, I wonder whether this would help. Certainly, it should be easier for a bus operator to tell an irate passenger complaining the bus didn't stop at a local bus stop that, "This is an M201, not an M1."
They don't read, or can't understand letters (such as the alphabet, that spell words like "LIMITED"), what makes you think they'll comprehend numbers?
Changing route numbers to suit the IDIOTS is just part of the 'dumbing down of America', and instead of catering to these IDIOTS, let them educate themselves and take responsibility for their actions.
Like when I saw Roll's for 46 cents in the Shop Rite. (I've even seen an add that said 16 "years" experience!. YEARS was in quotes!
can anyone tell me why the "EXPRESS" and "LIMITED STOPS" were removed from the P/R signs on the G/H buses?, those actually helped with the running of the clinic for the confused.
Anything worthwhile is almost certainly destined to oblivion where the MTA is concerned. They are being removed from ALL buses, not just Gun Hill. Now, when you enter PR7 or PR8, you receive a blank screen.
Somewhat akin to the IQ of the individual responsible for this atrocity.
I could'nt agree with you more.
What is a P/R sign and a G/H bus?
I'm guessing P/R stands for Public Relations, amd I know that G/H stands for Gun Hill, but I understand that it's not only Gun Hill Buses, but all Buses systemwide are having those two P/R signs removed.
From the afternoon of Wednesday, December 26, 2001, until the morning of Wednesday, January 2, 2002, I will be unable to access my computer and e-mail. During that time, no updates will occur, response to e-mails will be delayed, and, obviously, I won't be posting here. I apologize for any inconvienence. I will probably reach the boards one more time before my departure. Happy new year to all of you!
Happy New Year Oren and to everyone and their families on Bus/Sub Talk. This has been one year that I can't wait to see finish up. May next year be prosperous and allow healing to all.
Three guy's are killed in a crash on christmas eve and they all go to the Pearly Gates to see if they can go to heaven or the other place.
Saint Peter meet's them and say's "Guy's, since it's christmas if you can find something christmaasy on you you can come in".
The fist guy goes into his pocket and pull's out a christmas card and he is allowed in .
The second guy goes ito his pocket and find's miseltoe and he get's in.
The third guy goes into his pocket and pull's out a pair of ladies black lacey panties.---"WHOA" says Saint Peter "how are they something connected to christmas" and the guy say's "there Carol's".
MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM SCOTLAND.
The title is a takeoff on the song "Yes, we have no bananas." But seriously, would a B/O please explain why the bus doesn't have timetables. If timetables are on the bus, they are usually for a DIFFERENT route.
While joyriding Monday in NY, there was only ONE bus that had a timetable for the route it was servicing. (It was a M101.) The other buses had NONE or the wrong route.
Are the depots out of timetables? Is a relief B/O stuck with a bus that doesn't have timetables because the pull out B/O didn't pick up timetables before leaving the depot? Did the bus interline with another route and doesn't have timetables for the new route?
I'm sure there's a good reason. I just don't know what it is.
Michael
Enjoyed bus rides over the weekend
Had brunch with a friend this morning. While en route, I saw 9208 on the L2 with the flag on the rear. I didn't have my camera. The bus seemed to think it was going to McPherson Square via Georgetown. It made the connection with the E2 at McKinley Street but Orion V 2208 missed the one with the westbound E3. This ALWAYS happens and it is why the L2 and L4 need to be rerouted to Friendship Heights. The number of people who ride the bus to/from Chevy Chase Circle isn't large enough to warrant the service, while the extension of the route to the Metro will eliminate a bus for many people. The buses have to go by the Metro anyway to get to Western Division and the amount of time added to the route isn't that much.
That would make a lot of sense. I've always wondered why they don't do that anyways. Plus, it would eliminate that left turn the L2 and 4 have to make from Northbound Connecticut Ave. into the Chevy Chase Circle terminal. That must be a lot of fun to do with the cars flying around that circle.
The routing I was thinking would still involve a left turn onto McKinley St. Also, the buses turn left at Oliver into the old trolley loop, a few hundred feet short of the circle.
Yeah, it looks like a tough turn to make, albeit not right at the circle, but having to deal with the way the cars fly down Connecticut, it can't be the easiest turn. I guess its too conviluted to just have the buses go around the circle and come back south on Connectiuct and make a right into the trolley loop. That turn looks like its too tight to do something like that. A left on McKinley wouldn't seem to be as bad. You could email WMATA and make that suggestion. I've done that before and they emailed me back saying they'd forward it on. Of course, they failed to say that they probably forwarded it to the shredder, but, hey, I tried!! LOL.
I know the BX24 was dumped due to low ridership some years ago, but I forget exactly when. Last week while waiting for the '1' at 225th/Broadway, I glanced at the neighborhood map. It was dated 1989, and displayed the '9', which was established in August of that yeat. Funny thing was, the map also showed the BX24 on its usual route along Bailey Avenue between Fordham Road and 230th(?).
Seems to me the 24 died some time BEFORE 1989. Most neighborhood maps posted by token booths are outdated only to the extent of the date posted on them- there are still some dating back to 1985 when the whole concept started.
However, I get the feeling this map was outdated from its conception if it showed the BX24 after its demise.
The Bx24 was discontinued as part of the massive service cutbacks made in September 1995
Thank You
Today being the day after Christmas, one could say Queens Village received the following Christmas gift:
Orions in the form of 517 on the Q46 and 122 on the Q75 from Casey Stengel and Yukon respectively. Interesting to note that each coach is still sporting the logos from whence they came. I'm sure more transfers are in the works.
Regards,
Mark Valera
www.transitalk.com
Orion 517 has been at QV (along with 519 and 521) for quite some time now. Bus 122 is a new arrival, forced out of Yukon with the arrival of the 20 new MCI's earlier this month.
Mark
122?! Didn't Trevor say that that bus was in Canada and never coming back? I guess SHE'S BAAAAAAAACK! Now at QV. Was she repowered? 517 and 519 have been at QV for a while now as someone has mentioned. However a few weeks ago I did see 521 on the Q32.
Still scratching my head about 122 though.
#122 Q75
#519 Q46
www.transitworld.org
I did saw #521 on Q31 on Friday
First of all, did you know that the Vintage former New York City Transit Authority green body 1963 General Motors TDH-5303 model bus #3758 was used in the 1985 Movie "Heaven Help Us". Unfortunately, I think that today it is a real shame that this same 1963 GMC 5303 model bus #3758 is out of commission due to a defective alternator. From my knowlege, the Classic Fishbowl bus is currently stored at the Jackie Gleason Bus Depot in Brooklyn and just collecting dust there. Yet the Gleason Depot is in the middle of repairing their senior Museum vehicle the 1948 GMC 5101 model (Jackie Gleason) bus #2969. If the mechanics at the JG Depot are so backed up with other maintenance repairs, then NYC Transit should have
the 1963 GMC 5303 New Look bus #3758 transferred over to another bus depot (by way of tow truck) such as Ulmer Park so that this green bus can
finally start getting overhauled. Most of all, I would hate to see this
1963 GMC bus scrapped just because the alternator does not work properly.
I agree wholeheartedly. I remember 3758 had to be towed from the 1997 BusFest after it started leaking transmission fluid something terrible. The real problem is the fact that these buses aren't used enough. Only taking them out of the garage once or twice a year is not sufficient.
...and here is another vintage bus that needs major mechanical overhaul work: the proud, mean and gorgeous 1956 Mack C-49DT #6259. Specifically: the engine and transmission.
If moved by tow truck to the Ulmer Park Depot, the bus garage on
Harway Avenue would be able to actually start overhauling this reknown
green body former New York City Transit Authority 1963 GMC 5303 model bus
#3758 by finally installing a new or rebuilt alternator. Most of all,
I hope that 1963 Museum bus #3758 is fixed in time for next years
2002 NYC Transit Bus Roadeo.
I agree. We try to get our museum buses out at least once every couple weeks; in fact, I got to ride around on our 76 Flxible on Christmas Eve when we took it out. We had to feed it a couple cans of starting fluid due to the cold weather but it fired up a lot better than expected. That old 8V71 sounds great every time. However, the tranny is a bit sluggish during the first few minutes; any suggestions there on how to speed it up? I thought about B&M Trick Shift but don't know what it would do in a transit bus.
Anyways, taking a bus out only once or twice a year is atrocious; you HAVE to keep those fluids running through and get the wheels rolling for exercise. The worst thing you can do to a vehicle is let it sit; our Grumman 870 sat for three years and we had to fight like HELL to get it running again. Fortunately, we succeeded; I just hope our other Flxible won't be such a hard case as it has sat since 1989. Our 5303 still starts and it was parked in 1993; it had over one million documented miles when retired What a bus!
-F.
rent the flamingo kid if you can. its in that movie also.
A friend of mine has asked to me to place his hobby of Corgi Bus and PCC Conversions online to place on sale. Each one is one of a kind, and will be sold on a first come - first served basis. Contact Information can be located on the webpage, which contains extensive photographs of all of the available models.
Click Here to See the Models!
Available Models are as follows:
PCC Streetcars
SEPTA Banana Car
SEPTA Modified GOH Scheme
PAT Tri-Color (Green and Yellow)
PAT 80's Scheme
GM Fishbowls
SEPTA RWB
New Jersey Transit
WMATA Metrobus
Red and Tan Lines
CTA Later Scheme
MUNI Red and Orange Scheme
MUNI Red and Yellow Scheme
Routemaster Old Looks:
Pacific Electric (two variations)
Forgot to mention.
The cost of all models is a reasonable $50.00 + Shipping.
The Routemaster Buses may be somewhat less, however.
Thanks for looking!
A friend of mine reports that five of the 31 New Flyer Low Floor buses that arrived in Stamford have high-back (suburban) seating for service on the I-Bus Route between Stamford and White Plains. He thinks these are buses 127-131, but isn't positive.
A friend of mine reports that about twelve of the new Neoplan Artics are in Yonkers. The County is going to have a "welcoming" ceremony for the buses in January and they will begin running them on the Central Avenue routes. They are all expected to be in service by late May or early June.
How about the 7 Line? THey going to see them 1st along with the 20/21 Lines?
They really need them on the 20/21 routes, I took a ride with a friend to Cross County mall, those things are so loud and rickety, it's painful to ride!
They need them on the 7 Line too. I could hear the Engine of the MAN Artics and they LOUD that I could hear it in my classroom. (The 7 Line go's by my school). And idk why they have MAN's on the 45 for.
The Articulated will initially run on the 20/20X/21 lines. But you guarentee they will appear on the other Articulated lines (i.e. 5 [Some Trips], 7, 20/21, 40/41/42, 60/61/62, and the Summer Playland Routes).
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Yay!!!
I saw a couple of those new Artics in traffic on Eastbound on Route 80. They were moving right along.
Paint scheme looked - dull. Looking back in time - Liberty lines, Club, Westchester Street and all the rest from a bygone era had much better looking paint schemes on their buses than what we see today.
I just happened to travel to White Plains today for a short while (via the Tappan Zee Express). As I walked towards the White Plains Transportation Center to catch the bus back to Rockland County, I saw ahead of me one of the new Neoplan Artics, #502. I really wasn't close enough to see if it was in passenger service. I had my camera but was too far away from the bus to get a good shot.
I went out today to ride the N25 and trying to see if I get any 1992 Orion5's on the N25.
1st I got on a Nova RTS #9366 on Q46 to LIJ. Tooked it to the end and it was a 30 Minute Ride from KG to LIJ and the driver was going fast and the bus made only 4 Stops between 188 St and LIJ. Those stops are: Bell Blvd,Springfield Blvd,Creedmoor Hospital9I forgot the street name to this one),and Lakeville Road,Then to LIJ.
That loop at LIJ is VERRY SMALL LOOP. THey should do something about this LOOP it's too tight for buses looping around LIJ.
Then I tooked the N25 to Hillside Ave and back. 1st it was #109 THat STUPID Cummuns Orion5 CNG. Then #296 Verry nice sounding DD50G Orion5 CNG. And no luck seeing those 1992 Orion5's.
Then I tooked the Q46 back and it was a Nova RTS#4910(I forgot if it was #4910). Was anouther FAST Ride to KG.About 35-38 Minutes it took to KG.
Then I took the E Line to 71 Ave. It was a R-32. Then the R Line a R-46 to 63 Drive. Went to Buger King and wehn back to the subway and tooked the V Line,That was a R-46. After missing a R Line R-46 and I end up getting the V to 71 Ave and it went SLOW to 71 ave. About 8 Minutes to 71 Ave on the V b/c due to relay problems and red singnals. And then a E Line R-32 home to Union Turnpike.
1. How rare to get a 1992 Orion5 on N25?
2. What routes do they 1992 Orion5's allways runs on?
3. Do the N25 RELLY see them?
4. Is N26 out of RVC also? If so,Would it run on that route?
Thanks for answering! :)
I assume the 1992 Orions are the first CNG buses MSBA received, #657-666. They spent most of their years at Mitchell Field. Have they been moved to Rockville Centre in recent years? I probably see the N25 as often as any LI Bus route buses (not very often), and don't remember ever seeing one of those buses on that route. At one time, diesel Orions were seen often, especially rush hours, on the N25, but I don't know if this is still the case today.
I believe the N26 operates out of Mitchell Field, not RVC, but I'm not 100% sure.
Well if you're referring to the diesel Orions I don't think RVC uses them, they got the older (super crappy) 100 series Cummins buses from Mitchell when the new 300s arrived. The diesel Orions went to Mitchell and are used on routes like the N20, N21, and especially N22.
N26 is a Mitchell route I think.
I referring to the Buses #657-#666 that are at RVC
Once they used #583 on N25 on a Sunday early this year. idk if it was from RVC. BUT ALL I know of it was RARE to see one since it ALLWAY'S See 3xx DD50G Orion5 CNG's.
From yesterdays ride on the N25. I got pics of #109 and #296 and the interor of #296.
[Once they used #583 on N25 on a Sunday early this year. idk if it was from RVC.]
Rockville Centre depot is closed on weekends. Weekend service on all LI Bus routes operates out of Mitchell Field, so that is where #583 is from.
I wonder if the drivers that had 4910 and 9366 anybody that I knew? What time did you get these buses at? Also what were the run numbers?
The driver of 9366 I assume that you took between 12 and 1. Usually around that time ridership on the Q46 is pretty light-unless SJU is in session. The stop you forgot is Winchester Blvd. Actually the stop before the turn onto Lakeville Rd is 271 St. Lakeville is the very next stop-when it is on Lakeville. Also when you say FAST it sounds like someone I know.
To answer your question about 1992 Orions, I did see 627 on the N21 today while up at Bayside. You want to find them? Go to Hillside Ave in Queens around 169 St around 5pm and you'll find almost everything there. 100s 200s 500s and 600s even sometimes a 600 CNG.
A funny site was that I saw 611 on the Q31 with a Q1 front sign and a 7x10 rear Q31 sign.
Hope this helps you out.
#611 Q31
#9366 Q46
#623 N20
#295 N25
#179 N22
www.transitworld.org
I got on #9366 at 2:54 PM from the Courthouse stop. #4910 I got on was at 4:55 PM. I rember the B/O of #9366.He was the guy that's VERRY FAT and wearing Leather Gloves.
2:54 bus was run 024. That's 1 of my friends-doesn't drive too fast though.
The 4:55 bus out-sounds like you got either 038 or 026. Most likely 026-dk him well.
#9366 Q46
I beleave I was refuring to the 1992 Orion5's at LI Bus. They #657-#666 those are the 1992 Orion5's. #600-#655 are 1991 Orion5's. #656 is a 1991 Orion5 CNG. I do recall being on #656 on N22 from Jamaica to Hicksville and Hicksville to Rossevelt Field Mall. This was around the time when Metrocard Fare Boxes started to be used on LI Bus and before the Flxible Metros and Gilligs where GONE!(The Gilligs are still at LI Bus BUT not used on Bus Routes)
Oh you mean those older Orions. Yeah they were the first CNG buses to arrive at LIB, they seem to be in the shop alot and breakdown. I think RVC has a few of them, I've heard reports that several of those buses might have been scrapped (someone a while ago saw #666 in a junkyard in Hunt.Sta). They used an early and extremely unreliable Cummins L10G. Those things would stall alot in summertime with the A/C on.
I heard those where Diesels. They relly CNG's?
[I heard those where Diesels. They relly CNG's?]
As mentioned a few times elsewhere on this thread, #657-666 were definitely CNG buses.
Yeah they use the diesel Orions on the Jamaica routes alot. I really like the sound of the 6v92 on those diesel Orions, they are much better sounding than those Cummins.
It's always a pleasure to have the diesel Orions on the N21, but they do sometimes leak in the rain. Mostly I've been on the 600s, it seems we never get the 500s on the N21 but I've seen them on the 22.
A ride I will always remember was on 649. It was on the 19-mile long N20 route and man did that bus have some pick-up! This was back when this bus was a year or two old. Since then, it was transferred to RVC (along with the other 600's) only to return to Mitchel Field in '99.
Mark
I had 635 on the N27 today, and man did that 6v92 fly! That is one of my favorite engines. Plus it was nice and warm inside, cozier than the CNG buses.
1. Where is this bus going to?
2. is there any buses higher then 136?
3. What bus is it next to it?
1. There's no picture.
2. No...they're all the same height :-)
3. Another invisible bus.
David
OPPS! THere's must be some problem!
Then go to http://www.cttransit.com/uploads/busside.jpg to see the photo I was asking questions on
It's a low-floor something-or-other. Looks like a NABI to me, but I could be wrong. Also looks like the bus next to it is of the same type.
David
Bus 136 is a New Fyler Low Floor, and so is the bus next to it, if I'm not mistaken. I think CT Transit has a lot of these running around (don't hold me to this though, I've never even been to Connecticut)
Yes it is a New FLyer !
These buses have just arrived not long ago.
There in the new livery of CT Trnasit.
They are replacing the old Scania's in Stamford Connecticut.
Thanks. I realized a while after I posted that it was a New Flyer. Sorry if I misled anyone...
David
[1. Where is this bus going to?]
This bus should be headed for service with CT Transit in Hartford.
[2. is there any buses higher then 136?]
The current order is for 36 buses (101-136), so 136 is the highest number. Buses 132-136 will be in service in Hartford. As I posted earlier, buses 127-131 are in Stamford and have high-back seating for service on the I-Bus route between Stamford and White Plains. Buses 101-126 replaced the 25 1988 Scanias in Stamford.
[3. What bus is it next to it?]
As others have speculated, the adjacent bus is probably another CT Transit New-Flyer low floor bus.
Here is two photos of ex-Chicago Transit Authority Nova LFS running for the MTA-Bridges & Tunnels as Bus #956
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
This bus might not be from Chicago since the back doors are Color in the botton part. This bus must be NEW or something
Those are definitely CTA colors!!!
There's a diffence between them. The TURE CTA Units and the Bridges and Tunnels one. I tey to find the photo of the CTA TURE LFS Units
Listen up, this bus is EX-CTA! There is no second guessing, when you see the bus, if you see the bus. Go up to where it says MTA-Bridges & Tunnels, under that you can CLEARLY SEE the outline from the CTA Logo!
I was in front and on side of the bus. Even got a quick peek inside, PURE CTA NOVA INTERIOR!
I have a photo of a CTA Nova, THE EXACT SAME ONE NO LESS and I compared to be 110% sure.
THIS IS A EX CTA BUS!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I UNDERSTAND! And you sounded like you where %200 shure.
And It's A CTA Bus. I got close on the bus and you can see the old CTA decals markings left behind when they were peeled up. I actually have a photo of this bus at the NovaBUS Plant in Montreal when it was in CTA Colors. This is Ex-CTA #0001.
Trevor Logan
Ok. I see. So the bus relly was from Chicago after all. I got to go E-Mail something on this to someone in Chicago
Why would Chicago sell what look like a new bus. Did they not like them or something.
Robert
It was probally a demo or something, that was painted in CTA colors and subsequently sold to the MTA B&T. What does the MTA B&T do with it and where do they run it from?
Yes this a demo that was in Chicago.
That livery is from Chicago as Trevor stated sure !
I think the reason CTA didn't keep the demo, was that the demo wasn't build to CTA standards and there was no reason to keep that her.
Luke
How old is this bus? What is the model year? Sure , it's a nice looking bus and gives us some subject matter. But how badly does MTA Bridges and Tunnels need a bus? I throw out 3 hypothetical questions: How often will they use it and how much mileage gets put on it per year? Can't they procure a NYCT bus? Sounds like "your bridge and tunnel tolls at work!"
Well, after a little research and a whole lotta diggin', These Nova LFS Buses (#956 and #957) have replaced the older Blue Bird Type-D All American FE Buses that were used as the prior Employee Shuttles.
Personally, I can't blame the B&T wanting some new buses. Now as for procuring older NYCT Buses, WHY?, then they'd have to look at bus replacement in about a year due to the new emission standards. So getting these two Nova LFS coaches were probably the smartest thing to do. At least they didn't get any Orion VIs, YIKES!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
It seems to me that new buses would have the emission standards already met anyway? I mean, why build something that won't pass emissions in 12 months? That's a little bass ackwards to me!
-F.
HOLY TOLEDO
THE LFS IS BACK IN NEW YORK! COOL........IS IT GONNA BE THERE TEMPORARY OR FOR GOOD?
TONE
Most Likely Permenant, These have be CTA de-decaled and re-decaled for the MTA B&T including the inscription of "Employee Shuttle Bus", so I guess this is the bus the employees use from here on out!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Is there only one of these running in NYC? CTA had a prototype on the property for inspection and display long before any of the others arrived. It was painted full CTA colors and left again long before the production units arrived.
Laddie
I think the demo-prototype was numbered 9600 when it was here on display.
Laddie
I don't know what I was thinking! I think it was numbered 6400 not 9600. I have the newspaper article about it saved somewhere and it shows a picture with the number on the bus. I know it toured around to several garages to get the input of drivers and mechanics before the details of the order was finalized.
Laddie
Yes, this is that bus! I photographed it in Montreal at the NovaBUS Plant back in October. When I got a look inside tonight and seen the same Number, #0001, I was like "NO WAY" and I told the operator about the bus, he was like "WOW."
This bus has certainly had a journey. From Montreal to Chicago back to Montreal and now onto New York!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I am coming to NYC for New Years Eve with some friends and would like to get a picture of the LFS. Where does it run?
Thanks, Laddie
As you mentioned this was the prototype.
Why would Chicago not keep this one?
Are they getting rid of these LFSs?
NYC kept MCI 1861, which was the prototype for all the cruisers.
I don't know why it did not stay. It was only here a very short time. The production LFS's are taking over everywhere and none are going anywhere that I know of. Their arrival has retired all of the Flyers and many MAN Americanas.
Laddie
This was prototype which means DEMO not production order. NYC's MCI 1861 was production order, but came in as the pilot bus. Just like the MTA's Orion #6000, Nova #9350-9351, #801, #1001. All Pilot buses of the actual order.
This bus was like the #995 to the CTA.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Wasn't there #81994 at Yukon back in 1992? Whatever happened to that bus?
#81994 X17
www.transitworld.org
What is "Bridges and Tunnels"? Who uses it? Do they have a regular fleet or bus allocated? and is that the normal style of livery?
Originally there was an agency called the Triboro Bridge and Tunnel Authority (TBTA) that was set under Robert Moses to build and maintain the Triboro Bridge and any other structure that was build.
As with most governmental and quasi-governmental agencies, their reach expands and expands.
In the case of the TBTA, it expanded from the Triboro Bridge to include, IIRC, the Whitestone, Throggs Neck and Verrazano bridges, as well as the Midtown and Brooklyn-Battery tunnels.
When the Metropolitan Transportation Authority came into existence in the mid 1960's under Governor Nelson Rockefeller, they took over the NYCTA, MaBSOA, TBTA and several other agencies. The name was changed to MTA Bridges and Tunnels somewhere along the line.
To the best of my knowledge, they don't run revenue service in competition with MTA-New York City Bus. I presume based on previous posts that this is a bus used to shuttle employees between locations.
Correct; the stenciled letters by the door read "EMPLOYEES ONLY".
-F.
Whoa...that is NEAT! Somehow I can see that in MTA colors. Think they'll keep it?
-F.
Saw a commercial yesterday on ESPN for a video game called either NBA or NFL 2. Opening scence shows a side view of what I think is an Orion I. Couldn't tell if it was real or a damn good animation job. Anyone seen the ad ?
Add 8100 from ENY and 8045 from FLA to the repowered list.
B82#8100
B44#8045
I know this is probably old stuff to anyone who lives in the the WMATA service area. However, I don't really live here, and I found this somewhat interesting.
I know that WMATA used the extra space above the windows of the Orion VI low floor to tell people it's their new Metro bus and to put an oddly placed Metrobus logo. However, I didn't know it was used to advertise service.
Yesterday when I was downtown I saw Orion VI 2004 with an interestin message on top. It was advertising the 38B, saying that it was so on time that you were on schedule or something like that. Generally, it was talking about the 38B's realiability. On the other side it was talking about how to get information on buses and such. Does Metrobus do this with any of it's other routes, or is the 38B just very special? Oh, and coincidentally, the bus just happened to be running the 38B.
There are about 10 buses or so, maybe a couple less, that have this ad on them. Its because the 38B is the first metrobus route to use the "Nextbus" technology, which keeps track of exactly where the bus is. Several bus stops along the route have a digital readout that tells you when the bus will arrive at that stop. There is a website as well, www.nextbus.com, I believe it is, and you can actually see icons representing the 38B and see where on the route it is. Several other bus systems use it as well. The Fairfax CUE in VA uses this as well for its little bus system. This is a pilot program which could be expanded to other routes if successful. This bus is notoriously off schedule as it runs into a lot of traffic in Georgetown and around Washington Circle, so this was a way to keep an eye on it.
I've also seen a lot of the VI's with regular advertising on the sides under the left windows. I guess it took awhile to special order them as they appear a bit more narrow than the ones on the standard floor buses.
Anyone ride the new "service" (Puke, moan, groan) that now has the
X17(C), X17(B), X21, X 22 and X31 (and some others) running throuh NJ 42nd St/Lincoln tunnel/NJ Turnpike/Gothels on the PM rush instead of down to 23rd St/FDR/Battery Tunnel?
It's added over an hour to my trip!!
The TA says 42nd St. is faster with it's bus only lane but I'm sorry sometimes it takes an hour just to get from Lex to the Tunnel. Then you have the "NO STANDEE RULE". The turnpike does not allow anyone to stand on a bus so bus drivers are not letting people get on once the seats are full on these routes but all other X-Bus routes allow you to stand. My heart bleeds for the operators, it is not there fault.
The X17(J) in the morning that runs through NJ from Staten Island is a snap with its own bus lane into the city and I'm glad the TA brought that back but this reroute down 42nd St during the PM is just killing the riders.
Complain to the TA you say?
I did as well as everyone else handing flyers out on the bus. This is a test period (HAH, wait for the snow and ICE!!) they will make up there minds by summer as per some talking head on the phone.
"Going THEIR Way to take EXPRESS out of EXPRESS BUS, New York MTA"
The TA says 42nd St. is faster with it's bus only lane but I'm sorry sometimes it takes an hour just to get from Lex to the Tunnel. Then you have the "NO STANDEE RULE". The turnpike does not allow anyone to stand on a bus so bus drivers are not letting people get on once the seats are full on these routes but all other X-Bus routes allow you to stand. My heart bleeds for the operators, it is not there fault.
This is very likely due to the fact that the NYCT does not have interstate or NJ operating authority, and is using the Turnpike strictly as a go-between. NJT, Coach USA, Academy et al, all have standees on a daily basis. Most NJ companies even have a "STANDING ONLY" destination sign code.
On Monday afternoon when I was leaving NYC I was behind two NYCTA express buses and I was also thinking... I wonder how long it took for them to make their way to the tunnel. I was also thinking that with their speed governors set to extra low... The other B/O's on the turnpike must dread seeing a TA bus in front of them because they know they'll have to go around it in order to roll along at a normal speed. Yes, I know the speed limit on that part of the turnpike is 55 MPH, but realistically... almost one drive on the turpike below 65 MPH.
Wayne
You mean NYCT MCI's can't do 65mph? Maybe the Orions but the MCI's? That is crazy, they are EXPRESS buses they are meant to go fast. I guess you can chalk it up to more safety overkill on the part of the TA (not just slowing your train ride). Fortunately LIB does not use speed governors, I don't think NJT does either.
I hate speed governors, they should all be removed so buses can make better time.
Umm last time I looked the max speed anywhere within New York City is 50mph (Fifty Miles Per Hour) so the governors set at 55mph BREAK the LAW. So it is not overkill, just following THE LAW!
We're talking the section of the NJ Turnpike (not NYC expressways) TA buses operate on where the limit is 55 MPH. Again - we all know what the legal limit is, but realistically the flow of traffic on the turnpike moves along faster than 55 MPH. It just does not make sense to limit a vehicle to less than the normal traffic flow. With a top end limited to 58 MPH - I think the NYCT buses are a hazard to the rest of the traffic and need not even be on the NJ Turnpike.
Wayne
Within NYC the speed limit is 50mph on all "expressways" or any other street.
They are giving 8mph over the speed limit here in NY. Now that the buses go through NJ where the speed limit is higher was unforseen when they set everything up I guess.
You can't just say go with the traffic flow, if the bus is operating above the speed limit and somthing happens teh TA/Bus driver will be held to it.
50mph in NYC is the speed limit period.
[Within NYC the speed limit is 50mph on all "expressways" or any other street.]
Thanks, but I know this very well. Again - we were talking about NYCT buses operating on the New Jersey Turnpike where the speed limit is 55 MPH or 65 MPH depending on the location. In this thread no one said a word about the buses and their operation on NYC highways.
Wayne
nyct mci buses are governed at 58mph. when i used to deadhead back from nyc everyone flew past including the little old lady from pasadena in her 84 chevette.
1) The Highway Capacity Manual states that express bus services must provide EVERYONE with a seat due to their extended highway usage. This means that any operation with standees aboard regularly are not providing the amount of buses that the service needs.
2) Cops will not pull over a commuter bus of any kind unless it's missing a wheel or going 80MPH in rain, snow, or dense fog. Technically, no standees are allowed ON ANY COACH STYLE bus because most don't make provisions for standees and because of the hazards of highway operation. Charter bus drivers make sure that no one stands up for an extended period of time, particularly near toll booths, because the bus can be stopped and fined for having people standing during operation. No standees is a federal rule.
3) ALL buses operating in two or more states on a regular basis must have FHWA (ICC) permits. MTA has this permit and is allowed to run interstate because of this. If a company only has an intrastate license, they cannot set foot out of that state under any circumstances. This goes for both private and public entities.
4) Via New Jersey Turnpike will be generally faster than via Brooklyn for the routes currently operating this way. Remember that the Gowanus will be torn up soon and that the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel forces buses to line up single file (IIRC), slowing everybody's trip down. In addition, the holiday season is no fun, so wait until January and February go by before beheading the persons responsible for the changes.
[Technically, no standees are allowed ON ANY COACH STYLE bus because most don't make provisions for standees and because of the hazards of highway operation.]
As I've mentioned before, NJ Transit Cruisers post the number of permitted standees on the outside of the bus near the front door. I forget whether the NJ privates that have received the new D4000's do the same.
MCI specifically raised the GVWR on the D4000 for the sole purpose of allowing more standees. They make this statement in their website.
Old ruiles regarding coaches have been blurred by their use as transit vehicles (suburbans) instead of Greyhound-style intercity service or charter service. NYCT has essentially replaced high-back seat RTS transit buses with the 102DL3/D4500 coaches. NJT and most of the private NJ operators are using MCIs to replace GMC and Flxible New Look suburbans.
I am not behading because of the travel time in NJ. All the added time is right here in OLD NEW YORK on the Avenue they are taking me to, forty-second STREET!!
Just crossing 42nd to the tunnel is adding the time compared to the 23rd St trip to the FDR.
The Highway Capacity Manual states that express bus services must provide EVERYONE with a seat due to their extended highway usage. This means that any operation with standees aboard regularly are not providing the amount of buses that the service needs.
Why does the Highway Capacity Manual care? This is a matter between the transit agency and its passengers.
Just saw this on channel 7-it occured on 34th Street and 6th Avenue. The bus involved was a Queens Surface MCI bus. Apparently from what i can see, the bus was making a right turn from 34th street onto 6th Avenue and got in a accident. will report more when i see whats up.
Watching channel 4 right now, chopper is up over Herald Square with a QSC MCI Classic (turning from westbound 34 st to northbound 6th avenue) straddling the crosswalk on the northeast corner with a van behind it (heading west on 34 Street) crumpled in the front end as if it rearended the bus. Different reports are indicating varying amounts of injuries. If you're in the area go underground 'cuz you ain't going nowhere on a bus around there for a while.
Channel 4 is now reporting 4 fatalities at this accident...
Unfortunately, the death toll is now up to six. Sounds like the bus was not at fault at all, but the van went out of control as soon as it started to move from its illegal spot at the police's orders. Not clear whether the van was double-parked or parked at a bus stop on West 34th. NYC did not need another tragedy this year!
Unfortunately, the death toll is now up to six. Sounds like the bus was not at fault at all, but the van went out of control as soon as it started to move from its illegal spot at the police's orders. Not clear whether the van was double-parked or parked at a bus stop on West 34th. NYC did not need another tragedy this year!
It's probably fortunate that the bus was there, as otherwise the van might have gone farther and mowed down even more people at that very crowded intersection.
I saw the scene about 5:20, having gotten off the V train, and thought the huge police, fire and EMS response was way disproportionate to what looked like a relatively minor crash - I though the van had hit the bus, and that was that. Later on I found out about all the run-over pedestrians and realized just why there was such a big response.
News is still saying 6 fatalites, several wounded, taken to St. Vincent's(?)
Last broadcast, the death toll reached 10.
I don't agree that it was fortunate that the bus prevented striking other pedestrians, only because I don't believe the impact of the van killed the pedestrians. It appears the impact of the van forced the people into the rear of the bus, and subsequently killed them.
Whatever happened, sympathies to all concerned.
Really? I kept hearing that the van ran the people over, not crushed them.
That's amazing. I was actually on 34th Street trying to get across from Penn Station to Madison and uptown to the Mid-Manhattan Library at around 8 PM. I found it quite strange that there were no M16s or M34s in sight. Of course, I didn't hear about the accident until I got home at around 9:30. But something did tell me that I should forego the crosstown buses and instead walk to 7th Ave. and take the subway. Which I did, and you know what, when I get out of the station at Times Sq., within seconds there was the M104 (#413), with an M42 (repowered #8227, IIRC) right behind it. Strange.
Anyway, I heard it was a 77-year-old man behing the whell of the van. Now, not to disrespect the elderly, but I have had enough driving experiences to know that such a case is a potentially disastrous situation. My guess is that the guy probably got mad at having to move from the bus stop and gunned it, going on to the sidewalk and running down the pedestrians just before hitting the QSC bus. I could be wrong, but let's wait and see.
One more thing. Keep the families of those people in our prayers.
IMO, insurance companies should sponsor a program that requires those 65 and older to undergo a practical driving road test, as well as a hearing and vision test in order to maintain a drivers license.
I'm sure it's much more complicated than what I've described, but it would save lives, thereby reducing the number of accidental fatalities, as well as insurance premiums across the board.
(We all know the vision test at DMV is a joke).
I know it was not NYCT/MaBSTOA. If and I repeat ***if** it had been NYCT/MaBSTOA what would happen to the bus operator assuming it was not the fault of the bus operator. I presume drug testing and how long a suspension? Just asking- no personal connections.
Assuming the bus operator passes all tests do they face retaining and will it be on their records--again just asking, no connections.
Drug test after accidents goes for EVERY transit property in the US. Even private transit operators, such as Rockland Coach who I work for does a post-accident drug test. It's just the industry standard protocol.
Now most of New York City knows that this was not the Bus Operators fault. Queens Surface knows this two. They'll:
1) Post Accident Drug Test The Operator
2) Review the Police Reports
3) Allow the Driver Recovery Time whether or not he has injuries or not
You can also expect that the bus in question will not see service for a good month. The Police has to treat the bus as a crime scene, then after the police is done, QSC has to do whatever repairs to the coach that is needed.
This will be about a 1-2 month process before you either see the driver or the bus back on the road. Unless the Driver has "bawlz" of steel and returns to work in a week or two.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The drug test is federally mandated no matter what transit property you work for.
I dont see why the b/o would be suspended. He/she has enough on his conscience already (even though not at fault - he was there and it's his bus). There are many psychological factors to understand from the b/o's viewpoint. I'm sure QSC has a good EAP program that he/she is being sent to. It's possible they may return to a light duty (driller) assignment first b4 going back on the road, and he/she can decide when he/she feels the time is right.
Just a terrible thing for victims, families, the van driver, the bus operator, and the people that witnessed it..
According to Channel 4 at 5 PM the deceased now number 7. May they rest in peace.
In a rear-end accident such as this, there probably wouldn't be any reason to send the operator for a FFD test. I can tell you from personal experience, accidents that involve the back of the bus aren't necessarily classified under FFD testing. Especially if the Sup't at the scene is able to verify that the accident couldn't have been prevented by any actions on the part of the B/O.
In the case above, the B/O would most likely be driving the next day, regardless of what others here have posted.
Actually found out today that the driver is not back, and will not be back for a minute based on some other issues.
The Bus Opeartor of #932 was a rookie driver also.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I don't know QSC probationary policy so I can't comment. Even if this driver didn't have a stellar record, no fault can be placed on him, and his job shouldn't be in jepoardy. I'm sure the union is handling it (at least I hope they are).
Some guy on the news called it 'THE HERALD SQUARE PEDESTRIAN MASSACRE'
A little harsh eh?
I just caught that scene on channel 11 news at 10 p.m. It was a gruesome sight, 14 people were hit by the van, 6 died, before it struck that QSC MCI Classic, They litterally showed the bodys covered under the bus, I feel so sorry for those people, the van was from Seacaucus N.J. Supposedly driven by a 76 year old man. I feel bad for what happened, may those people Rest in Peace.
Tone
Caught the scene on both Eyewitness News and on UPN 9 News this evening-last I knew 6 have died. My Prayers and condolenses go out to the families of those lost. Such a terrible time to lose loved ones especially now-the Holiday season.
#932 was the bus involved. That's not an importance right now however.
#951 QM4/Amtrak AEM-7
You can read about at www.nytimes.com. You don't need a password. Click on the article and it comes right up.
Michael
This One-Of-A-Kind Corgi Fishbowl Model Conversion is still available from Bryan Cooper for $50.00 + $6.00 Shipping and Handling. You can add this unique model to your model bus collection!
For contact information, and to see more of Bryan's buses, Click HERE!
Absolutely gorgeous!
Yeah. Now if it only had the route number. Right now it's D4.
Michael
I can do custom WMATA buses with special fleet and route numbers tailored just for the customer. E-mail me for further details.
-F.
This One-Of-A-Kind Corgi Fishbowl Model Conversion (of a preserved bus nonetheless!) is still available from Bryan Cooper for $50.00 + $6.00 Shipping and Handling. You can add this unique model to your model bus collection!
For contact information, and to see more of Bryan's buses, Click HERE!
ASHBURY PARK ?
Isn't supposed to be ASBURY PARK ?
Bill "Newkirk"
These One-Of-A-Kind Corgi Fishbowl Model Conversions are still available from Bryan Cooper for $50.00 each + $6.00 Shipping and Handling. You can add either or both of these unique models to your model bus collection!
For contact information, and to see more of Bryan's buses, Click HERE!
When I saw this show. I saw a Orion1 speeding down 2 Ave in NYC. The Orion1 was with a RED stripe and WHITE Paint.
I will be going to NYC for the New Years celabration at Times Square. I will be traveling with friends who have no idea how to get from one place to another. I assume the subway and bus system will take me anywhere I want to go but, I need some initial help on the first leg of my trip.
From LaGuardia Airport, what buses or trains or subways should I take from LaGuardia Airport to 28th street in Long Island City, NY.
I hope someone can help me. Thanks, Phoenix
That's easy!
Take the Q33 from the Airport to eather 82 St Station or 74 St Station and then the the 7 Train
Interesting day yesterday on what can be done with a $4.00 funpass. QS Q67 Nova to 23/Ely to observe a bit of the new subway service plan at the Queens IND express stations, then Q10 (GBL 1985 RTS) to Kennedy airport, followed by the JFK Flyer (MSBA710) to Hempstead (more about that later), N15 to Long Beach (CNG 134), N33 (high 200 series CNG) to Far Rockaway (never realized how close Far Rock is to Long Beach), "A" train to Bway/Nassau (thank God, R38), IRT Lex to 33/Park, then round trip on M98 (9651 both ways) followed by #7 to Court House Sq. then Q39 Triboro (soft seater 3007 with a broken fairbox) home.........MSBA's 710 is a poor excuse for a bus! I think it is a Thomas, I have no idea how old this monstrosity is because MSBA buses, like NYCT buses, do not have registration stickers in the windshield. It has about 15 seats, luggage rack on the left with the farebox by the first seat opposite the driver. I couldn't find it at first! The suspension on this bus was shot, whenever we hit a bad road surface, the bus felt like it was literally going to fall apart. But, the bus was fast, too fast! The bus was filthy. I really doubt given the low ridership on the line (we had 6 people at the highest point) that the trash on the floor was "todays" newspapers, coffee cups and assorted paper scraps. The floor throughout the bus under the seats where people do not walk was very dusty. This bus hadn't been swept or mopped in weeks! The wheelchair lift looked so beat up, I would be suprised if it worked! And no ventilation vents by the windows. The heat vents were only in the front by the drivers compartment, on a freezing cold cloudy morning the passengers must shiver, and I wouldn't want to be on that bus on a hot summer day either, At least it has windows that are supposed to open. At Hempstead, we saw MSBA 705, another small bus which looks like one of those jitney buses you see in Atlantic City. Maybe we'll ride that one on our next trip in June!
Those Thomas buses remind me of school buses (Thomas bus main product) so it's no suprise that they are quite bouncy. as for the dirt, some of the regular Orions also can be quite dirty. Even if there's just light ridership, LI Bus riders can be quite messy. On the "regular" buses I ride on routes such as the N27 and N21, bottles rolling on the floor, newspapers, gum and batteries are all too common. Cleaning could be better.
Those Thomas things are dangerous and should be scrapped. As to why they are still around, I dunno. I try to avoid them whenever possible.
I am curious about all this, especially about these Thomas buses being termed "dangerous". Is that just one man's opinion, which I would believe it to be? I rode them myself last year on the JFK flier. Bouncy? Yes. Dirty? Very much so. Fun? Sure. A change from the norm of everyday bus riding. But I'd not call them dangerous. Let's face it folks, Thomas is a leading school bus builder. If the buses it made were "dangerous" they be out with yesterday's trash. If it is a maintenance issue, or the fact that some first class slobs throw their bottles in the aisle, that is hardly the fault of the bus nor does that deem them any more dangerous than a filthy, bouncy Gillig or Orion. Thomas builds some pretty decent transit vehicles. But, you get what you pay for. Hard to believe that Thomas is the same builder of the venerable New Orleans streetcars.
I feel that the Thomas buses on the NY Waterway shuttle are decent buses.
Those are AMTRAN buses.
I beg to differ. The heating on that Thomas bus if awful, I remember riding one to JFK last year and freezing my butt off just like I did riding the school bus when I used to go to school.
Also it was smelly and made me feel sick, school bus fumes are awful.
And the sad thing is we put our kids on these crappy vehicles.
I believe I am not the only one who really dislikes school buses (as well as those transit style "school buses", they're still crap).
Also school buses do fare worse in accidents. Chassis seperation is more common with school buses due to their poor construction. I've read it in papers and have seen accidents.
I am no big fan of shcool buses. I do, however, like the flat fronts. On the west coast primarily they run Crown and Gilligs. I have ridden school buses, admittedly, not very often. But, I, too, can read. I do read trade journals, builder's literature and, now that I have two schoolbus drivers in my family, I even read the laws governing these buses. I don't know when you went to school or where. Nor do I know the scenario you were in or what bus outfit carried you. But school buses are among the safest vehicles on the road.
I have been on freezing cold city buses; I have sweated my butt off on city buses AND over-the-road coaches. I have been involved in numerous breakdowns on both. And then there are the cases that I have only seen in passing.
Perhaps you are too young to recall riding our beloved "fishbowls" in an era of deferred maintenance, where the insulation under the rear seat, over the engine, was removed, or just sticking out. You want heat and fumes??? Perhaps you don't recall a "fishbowl" with its side windows kicked out and were swinging around curves.
Sounds like you were not a happy student, forced to go to school. Hmmm? Maybe that's your hatred of school buses. Or, perhaps you are right, but not taken the step completely. Let's just ban buses altogether! I'm sure there are folks out in the world that would second that move in a heartbeat. (I am NOT one of them).
jrc
People who want to ban buses just suck. At least that's my opinion.
-F.
Or maybe it was my school district (Levittown). On some school trips we used private carrier school buses which were better.
Never ever rode on a flat front. Also I've seen some Manhasset school buses with engines in the rear. Manhasset school buses have A/C, I've heard.
Levittown school district wasn't the best that's for sure, there were alot of school budgets voted down causing cuts in buses.
" Let's just ban buses altogether! I'm sure there are folks out in the world that would second that move in a heartbeat. (I am NOT one of them). "
Well I'm sure the fine folks at Walt Whitman mall would love that! :-(
You are right. And they would ban bus photographers too. They hate us.
Also school buses do fare worse in accidents. NOT TRUE, it's proven you're 50 times more safe in a school bus than in any other vehicle.
...due to their poor construction. POOR CONSTRUCTION?!? School buses undergo the highest standards of construction and safety, don't even think they're built poorly.
I've read it in papers and have seen accidents. Yeah, I've read in papers that certain people don't know what the hell they're talking about, and I've seen accidents relating to people not knowing what they're doing...
You may be safer in a school bus than most cars, but what about transit buses?
Aside from safety which I was wrong about, school buses don't give a comfortable ride. I was wrong about safety, but certainly fumes poor heating and a bouncy ride can't be all that great.
Again it could vary by district, I went to school in Levittown so I can only comment on what I experienced there.
About the fumes, you're right. There have been concerns about school bus fumes filtering into the bus and causing harm.
You may be safer in a school bus than most cars, but what about transit buses?
School buses are safer than transit buses also. (As for the safety of school buses with transit fronts, they're definetly safer than transit buses, I'm not sure about their safery relative to conventional (engine sticking out in front) buses. But transit-style school buses can often be better for some districts, as they can seat more in a shorter length, and have a shorter turning radius. As for the speed, I can't say anything for sure, but I've experienced fast speeds on both conventional and transit-style buses. (I've gone 65 in a conventional!) As for mini-school buses, while these are not as safe as the bigger buses, they're still relatively safe. (Yeah, and on a GMC chassis, 77MPH... on a regular basis.)
And I beleave those Thomas Junkliners are the WORST of all Buses at LI Bus. I got a pic of it on the N91 Line back in July or August when I done a trip rideing the N22A Line.
LI Bus should look into buying MCI Cruisers or Repower #657-#666 and remove some seats and put some RACKS on it and the Thomas Junkliners would be out of the Ballpark. :)
hers is something that noone here mentioned. LI Bus DO NOT OPERATE THE N91 route. It is run by a subsidery of the LIBUS route. The thomas buses come from the same garage as the minivans that say LIBUS on them do (Those are Ford Cutaway vans #3000's series)-Occasionally, i have seen a Orion V on the N91 but it is rare.
I believe that the drivers on the JFK Flyer are not regular MSBA drivers as we traditionally know them. They are part timers, yet as we were going along the route, I did see a diesel powered Orion on the route signed up N91. Wonder if that driver was a part timer as well?
You are wrong the Thomas Buses are run from the
Mitchel Field Depot. The Depot you refer to is the Stewart Ave Depot this is used exclusively for the Able Ride division of LI Bus. The operators on the N91 as well as most other LI Bus routes can be either part timers or regular full timers
I've seen the Thomas buses fueling at the Mitchell Field depot, the able-rides don't. Sometimes one of the able-ride vans is seen on the Hub shuttle, though lately it's been Orion 2s and diesel Orion V's with an occasional dreadful Thomas bus.
Does anybody know if those buses were delivered to LIB second hand or new?
The Able-Ride buses do fuel at Mitchel Field and they DO NOT perform line work they only provide service for the disabled community within the LIBus service area. LI Bus did operate several Fords on the N91 at one point but they were shuttle buses not Able buses.
[MSBA's 710 is a poor excuse for a bus! I think it is a Thomas, I have no idea how old this monstrosity is]
#710, along with #709 and 713, are 1996 Thomas buses. #707 and 708 are 1995 models. Given their age, MSBA will most likely hold on to them for awhile, although some of us may predict they'll bite the dust before too long!
[At Hempstead, we saw MSBA 705, another small bus which looks like one of those jitney buses you see in Atlantic City.]
705 is one of MSBA's Orion II's.
I appreciate the information. I expected for you to tell that MSBA 710 is a 1986 model! I am totally shocked that it is a 1996 model. MSBA has suceeded in running this bus into the ground in a very short amount of time. I doubt if NY Waterways' Thomas' shuttle buses have the same kind of shabby passenger ventilation system.
I saw the Nova LFS, and the markings are definitely CTA. It was probably a prototype/demonstator and CTA got rid of it when the production models came in. That's how SEPTA got Volvo 8590. As for the Novas, there are a few here in Philly. Go to the Airport and see them in shuttle service between the terminals and the parking lot.
Speaking of prototypes, where is the ORIGINAL 5401? This bus is different because of some trim, and it has a the same Twin-Vision sign as the NEOPLAN artics (except 7101).
That bus is back at SEPTA. It's in Red Arrow(I think).
5401 has been in revenue service out of Red Arrow. I haven't seen it, but from what I understand, it's been out on the road, most likely on the 124/125. It may have been on other routes, but I haven't seen it yet. I have seen 5402-5410 at various points over the past month or so.
I thought something was fishy about that thing being in CTA colors! Wonder if it goes back to the factory or if MTA has a historic vehicle for their collection when NOVA goes belly-up?
-F.
Being that the Jackie Gleason Bus Depot is already in the middle of refurbishing their oldest Vintage 1948 General Motors 5101 model bus #2969 as well as the 1956 Mack bus #6259, New York City Transit should really consider having the green body 1963 GMC TDH-5303 former NYC Transit Authority bus #3758 transferred (by way of tow truck) over to the
Ulmer Park Bus Depot in Brooklyn. By having the 1963 GM 5303 bus #3758 transferred to Ulmer Park, that bus depot could at least finally start
overhauling the reknown classic vehicle by installing a new alternator.
My point is that the Gleason Depot is way backed up with too many other repairs on their modern CNG buses and the 1948 GM Jackie Gleason bus.
Pehaps Ulmer Park can finally repair Museum bus #3758 back into operating condition.
You posted the same message aproximately 24 hours ago as message #41991, just under a different subject heading.
I sure hope so. The green NYCTAs of the 1960s are really sharp! I LOVE that metalflake paint scheme.
-F.
While traveling on the beltway in Montgomery County today, I saw 4 new MCI, I suppose D4500's, with orange destinataion signs on their way into VA. Two of the buses looked really dirty, so I don't know if that's from traveling through areas up north with snow or not, but the orange signs took me by surprise. I could also see rear route number signs on the backs. I wasn't driving, so I had a chance to gawk. Between these new buses and the newer Orion V's, PRTC's fleet is looking really sharp.
***PRTC is a commuter bus service from Manassas and Dale City, VA to the Pentagon and downtown DC. They also run a local service in Woodbrige, VA but use smaller cutaway type buses.
PRTC is supposed to recieve 38 D4500s over the next several months. The first batch of 19 is supposed to be completed by the end of next month, with the second batch of 19 arriving later this coming summer. The D4500s will most likely replace the hodge-podge of MCIs and Eagles presently operated by PRTC.
Ahh, that would make sense, then. The ones I saw looked really nice. They sure do have a hodge podge of buses in their current fleet. Some looked like they were on their last legs.
What is the PRTC? And if I were travelling to D.C., where would I go to get some photos of them?
Carlton
PRTC is the Potomac Rappohannock Transportation Commission. They operate commuter service from Manassas to the Pentagon and Washington DC and from Woodbridge, VA to the Pentagon/Washington, DC. The Pentagon bus terminal is the best place to catch most of the action, especially with the new bus station that's opened up there. PRTC has Orion V's, TMC RTS's, a few Classics, and assorted over the road coaches. Some of the buses have full ad wraps on them, too. If you go to DC to try to catch them, hang around by the Metro Center Station at 13th and F and you'll see a bunch of buses going by there, too.
Thanks a bunch...your response is greatly appreciated...
Carlton
You're very welcome!!! I know they have a website, too, but I don't know it offhand. It might be something like www.prtc.com. You could actually find a link to it by going through apta's website. They are www.apta.com. You then click on "web sites" and then you can go by state and go to Virginia and all the transit systems in Virginia with a website will be listed.
Enjoy taking the photos if you do come down here!!
Went with the family Thurs. nite to Rock Center to see the tree, visit St. Pat's, buy stuff at the Disney store and walk around a bit. Saw 1826 on the M30. I don't know how well it runs, but it still looks pretty good. Saw Hospital Audiences Bus #1. Anyone know where this bus came from? It has a paper sign, and the rear door is not the push type as on the TA buses. You saw the hardware that it moves side to side to open and close. Definitely not ex-TA.
To be to your surprise it is. I believe it's former MTA RTS #1848.
4219 I think is the 1 with aluminum rims.
1826 I saw along 15 St a while back-still looks pretty good but it now resides at Quill.
#1826 M30
One of the buses did have the rollsign & other have LCD Sign Both are 1985 GMC-RTS Buses. I saw both buses park outside at Jackie Gleason Depot couple weeks ago while i was doing Operation Planning.
David J.
Only one of the Hospital Audiences buses is a 1985 RTS--4219. The other, is 1982 RTS, PA1848 (ex-Ulmer Park).
Mark
Has Hospital Audiences been around since 1985? I ask this because as far as I know, NYCT/MABSTOA never rostered 4219.
Bus #4219, Serial #FV823911 never rostered on the TA because, it never made it to the TA. However it was on the TA's 1985 GMC Order. #4219 was basically donated/sold off or whatever you want to call it to Hospital Audiences straight from the factory. This is the first of a long line of TA buses to do this. The Other TA Bus that did this was the NYPD 1991 TMC RTS Bus #9598 which was originally TA Bus #8400, Serial #LR828177 (Never seen passenger service as 8400) but straight from the factory to the Housing Police as HP-1 then onto NYPD as #9598.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
What is Hospital Audiences?
they have two. one is definitely 1848. the one you saw may be an ex septa bus as they had sliding doors.
Omni*Bus 1 (S/N 823911) isn't an ex-anything; it was donated directly to HAI in 1985 (although it does have a Jackie Gleason Depot decal on the driver's side window). PA1848 became Omni*Bus 2 in 1997.
FV823911 (#1) was originally built directly for Hospital Audiences Inc. in 1985 according to GM Production Records that I have.
Perhaps it has the Jackie Gleason decal on it as it gets some maintenance there now and then.
I remember that bus from long ago. She was at Central Park when I was there doing volunteer work for the Red Cross at Central Park for a marathon. I see her from time to time in Manhattan.
Back around the late 70's the MTA published a book they called:
"Seeing New York: The Official MTA Travel Guide" I remember having one, but god only know where it went off to.
I'd like to get my hands on another copy, can anyone adivse where I could start this almost Impossible Mission?
"MTA" wasn't used in the 70's. But, I have a 1994 Edition of it. According to the '94 book, it's published every 2 years. I haven't seen one.
MTA definitely was used in the 1970's. ...It just wasn't used like it is today. The guide was named the Official MTA Travel Guide because it had info. about NYCTA buses, subway as well as the commuter rail lines. Some old bus maps from the late 70's have info. about the Official MTA Travel Guide. I believe it sold for two or three dollars.
Wayne
I got mine free at my Library where they always stockpile maps.
mta began about 1968. i wonder if any of you guys/gals can name the first mta chairman? ill try and find some mta memorabilia for the winner.
I belive that would be William J. Ronan
yes he was an mta chairman but not the first one in 1968. this is a tough question.
William J. Ronan was indeed the first chairman of the MTA. His term of office took effect March 1, 1968, the first day the agency existed. Before that, he was head of the Metropolitan Commuter Transportation Authority, the agency formed in 1965 to run the LIRR. MCTA was expanded under legislation tied to the bond issue of 1967 and became MTA.
David
I am always on the prowl for Los Angeles and San Francisco bus photos.
If anyone has some for sale or trade please email me directly.
Thanks.
A OLD Man was behind the wheel of a VAN and it ran over people and then hit more people and then hit the back of a MCI Classic. I heard 4 People Killed and 4 People inside the QSC MCI Classic was not hurt and made it out of the bus after the van crashed.
And it was A MESS!!! All Buses on 34 St detoured around the crash site and other EXPRESS Buses where running late as 15-20 Minutes and the M16 and M34 ran late as 20-25 Minutes. And I beleave the X23 and X24 went on 42 St to the TUNNEL. And the Subways where MORE PACKED then normal.
6 people were killed ---this is more of a shame than the Queens Surface Bus that was damaged and can be replaced!!!!!
Steve
FDNY
Unfortunately, I believe a 7th person has died. One or two more remain in critical condition. I'm sure we all grieve for friends and family of the victims and put the bus on a much lower priority.
Heard on the news that was a person from Flushing. It seems this unfortunate accident is affecting all neighborhoods. I think a tourist from Switzerland was also involved, though I think they survived.
A bus can be replaced but not your life. 932 will be back on the road soon but not 7 human lives-which is extremely sad in my opinion.
#951 QM1A/Amtrak AEM-7
I agree.
-F.
In White Plains today, Neoplan Artic #502 in driver training. The I-Bus is definitely all Low Floor, no wraps, and higher back seats.
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
SWEET!!
What buses were there?(there cout've been 6 x30's!)
There were 3 X30, 1 X31, and 1 X17. All in a row!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
VERY nice photo, Trevor; suitable for framing.
-Fred
Can you please post a high resolution (1024x768) copy of this pic? I would love to make it my desktop wallpaper!
Sorry, I don't have the high-res copy anymore. But since I'm doing this new thing with Photo of the Day. I will keep a backlog of High Res Copies Starting next week.
Again, My Apologies!
Trevor Logan
(If He was a bus fan!) Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
What bus # is that-9542 from Jamaica? Guess it's returning from Lodi.
2 great shots Trevor.
#9542 Q17
Nope that's 9642 in passenger service on the M98.
Thank you!
Trevor
There's an area on the on ramp to the bridge where you can make a U-Turn, this is where the M98's make their turn to return to Mid-town.
bye the way Trevor, great shot.
Beautiful! You should sell these as framed pictures! I don't get the Washington reference though...fill me in?
-F.
The name of the bridge in the background is the "George Washington Bridge."
There is your reference!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Gotcha. Thanks T!
-Fred
Why was a M98 on the GWB in service?
Because that is part of the M98 Route, go to www.mta.info or look up the M98 on a Manhattan Bus Map and you'll see it runs right into the GWB Bus Terminal!
Always has! Ya'll Bus Fans and Ya'll don't know this stuff?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The map doesn't show it that well. When I first took the M98, I was sorta surprised when he took the turn up to the bridge. I thought he was heading to New Jersey!
Look carefully at the photo and you'll see the u-turn ramp the M98 uses to enter and exit the bus station.
Click any link below:
Click Here For Depot by Depot
Click Here For List Style
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Sorry, Wrong Links! These are correct!
Click Here For Depot by Depot
Click Here For List Style
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I have a pic of #409 on the Bx4 line @ Bergen Av/149th St...I guess this bus went back to Amsterdam, still rocking Amsterdam logos...
Carlton
Good for you, This bus is a GH Permenant, It hasn't had its decals changed yet! Common Sense!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Wifey and I went to see this flick last night. There are a few bus scenes it it....not sure where this flick was filmed as they did a decent job of eliminating most (if not all) hints. (Some scenes looked like New York, others looked like Toronto, and yet others looked like Baltimore....)
There are a couple GM T8H5307A's, formerly of GO Transit up in Ontario, lettered "The Green Line". One was #1102....and there were a pair of the GO Transit 5307A's for auction on eBay a month or so ago, and one of them WAS #1102!!
There was one interior scene on a bus -- after the actors got onto "The Green Line" 1102 -- remember, it was a fishbowl -- but the interior scenes were in an RTS with blue interior and lots of grafitti.
There was also one subway car interior scene....also heavily grafitti-ed, it was actually a PATH car interior!!!!
The buses belong to Chet Fermaneck at Central Jersey bus. After he made the movie he put the buses on ebay.
ACK! RTS interior shots on a Fishbowl? TACKY!!! Gotta see this one though.
-F.
According to the Internet Movie Database, The Royal Tenenbaums was filmed entirely on location in New York City. Some scenes were shot in Forest Hills, Park Slope, and in Harlem around the 144 St/Convent Av area.
In some of the commercials for the film, Gwyneth Paltrow is seen getting off the aforementioned fishbowl.
That's correct; in fact, the commercials are what make me want to see it. Nothing like looking at Gwyneth Paltrow and a bunch of Fishbowls!
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
To me, the movie went very slow, but it was worth seeing Gwyneth. The buses were in the movie several times, that was nice to see, too.
True.
-F.
In one of the cemetery scenes, railroad catenary structure can be seen, but only for a moment, so I assumed it was one of the cemeteries near the NY Connecting.
Internet Movie Database does provide a valuable resource for those interested in more details than just seen in the film, however, their location lists are NOT always complete OR correct.
The credits at the end of The Royal Tenenbaums lists (besides New York City), Los Angeles, Toronto, and Jersey City.
For more details, see SubTalk. This is a scream!
-F.
seen on access hollywood the other day.she is singing on the street when all of a sudden she boards an old look coach where she is now singing aboard the bus. this is a cool video you might catch on mtv. anybody know whoses bus it is?
That is a preserved Lakeland 4515 model. Not sure if they or Chet owns it.
Here's my speculations:
The 6350-6353, 6358-6359 will go to MCH.
GH and QV will get more Orions when the new MCI's come in. Ulmer Park will get a better fleet change.
The RTS 85'GMC's will die.
FP will stay the same.
Yukon will lose some of its RTS's
That's all can think of right now.
Have a happyv New Year!
-Jay
>>>The RTS 85'GMC's will die.<<<
Get a grip. There're not going to be ANY, I repeat again, ANY new LOCAL bus deliveries in 2002. Those RTS aren't going anywhere. They're just going to run around your neighborhood spewing out their toxic fumes as I go ha ha ha!
The ONLY thing that may help in ridding the system of them is the conversion of express RTS buses to locals. If it goes anything like the repowers, it's going to be a SLOW, LONG process.
So, I hope you like 1985-87 RTS. You'll be seeing alot of them!
Here's some from me.
Eather a Orion6 Hybrid or a Nova RTS Hybrid would go to QV.
The X25 extend to 57 St/Madison Ave.
FP would get some JG 84xx RTS's.
LI Bus would get MORE Buses.
#7560 would come back.
JG would get their 52xx Nova's back.
HP would get Nova RTS Suburbans.
Interesting.
Here's some more:
QV to use their Orions on normal routes.
JA should do the same with the RTS Nova Suburbans.
The 4600-4899 will NOT get repowered.
To see Flatbush with the 8293-8316.
Triboro and GL will have the same bus fleet.
For Green Lines to have Artics for the Q60(even if it won't happen).
The 9229-9249 in FP(I truly doubt it will happen).
FP will be the only "ALL RTS" depot within the next couple of years.
Off Topic: The 8109-8116 R143 Subway cars on the L-line.
The Redbirds should live longer.
I want to hear more from everyone
-Jay
what id love to see in 2002:
better buses for Ulmer Park(maybe send over #7500-#7510 from FLA)
Send some of the NOVABUS local that are at ENY(they have 125) to UP(Maybe #5001-#5024 at least).
Open 100th St.
Get the new bus that Bridges and tunnels operate(send it to Quill or Hale)
My outlook for the bus equipment in NYC for the TA and privates is very, very pessimistic. It seems to me that nobody can manufacture a durable bus for city streets. All that is going to happen is the current buses will become a year older. We'll see additonal TA soft seaters get transfered to local service thanks to additional MCI's coming in. And those soft seats, if they are not vandalised, get so mushy that you are sitting on the base of the seat. Is it by the end of 2002 that everything older than 1990 must be removed from service for clean air purposes or is it the end of 2003? With delays to new Artics and structural troubles with the Orion 7's, the TA and the privates may have to ask the feds for a waiver and get out the duct tape to keep the old stuff running.
No waiver would be necessary. NYCT does not use federal funds to buy buses, and hasn't in about 20 years.
David
Can someone plese provide some background information about this "clean air" thing?
Here in Philly, we'll see the following:
1) More Flyers, and less bus service in the snow when SEPTA discovers that they get stuck in Philly's unplowed neighborhood streets.
2) FINALLY, working AC on NJT 551 AC express buses, thanks to the new MCI's.
3) Maybe a final decision on what to do with the Trackless Trolleys. They are 22 years old, and the AM Generals are on their last legs.
4) I hope NJT will decide whether to give the Suburban Bus contract to NEOPLAN, or try to squeeze 5 to 7 more years out of the Flxibles. Either way, those buses needs to be either fixed up or replaced.
5) I hope that NJT decides to try to reorganize the South Jersey routes. They're not going to all of the important business and residential communities down here.
6) SEPTA will realize its mistake about the SPREE bus route, and mercifully put it out of its misery.
I think SEPTA ought to be put out of its misery and have a fresh start for everything!
Let's see what we can expect in 2002:
1. All of the Orions and TMCs will complete their repowering program.
2. The 1982 RTS Suburbans will finally be scrapped.
3. The Orion and Nova Suburbans will be no more-they'll be reconverted to local seating.
4. 996-998 will finally see revenue service.
5. The 4900-5249 Novas will start their 3 year upgrade program.
6. QV and CS will no longer be short of buses.
7. Queens will receive 75 MCIs for their Express Routes.
8. 80% of the 1985 RTS will be scrap/sold.
9. More R142, R142A, R143 will be in service.
10. More Redbirds will be going under.
11. The 7 will finally see some R62/R62As on their line.
12. Novas 6361-6364 will go to MHV.
13. More Orions to GH.
14. AMS Closing? 100 St depot opening?
15. 2nd Artic order will start in to replace either remans or 1986 RTS.
16. QSC MCI Cruisers?
17. Triboro, Green, Jamaica, Command-no changes.
18. NYBS More MCI Cruisers.
19. Fishbowls will be forever gone in NYC.
20. Another possible strike threat by the DOT?
21. MCI Cruisers for Liberty?
22. Same equipment for LI Bus.
23. M-7 will be tested on the LIRR Lines.
24. M-1, M-3 will be headed either to MN, elsewhere or scrap.
25. GH will get rid of their RTS to other depots-UP QV anf FP will be preferred.
If I think of any more, I'll post here.
Let's hope for a very Happy Healthy 2002!
Happy New Year everybody!
#951 Amtrak AEM-7
The true red white and blue!
Not bad...
7) Queens will be receiving 60 MCI's, 40 will go to Castleton
8) With no new buses on the horizon look for the 1985 and 1986 RTS's to stick around through 2002.
13-14) Don't be so sure about Orions going to GH. MAYBE when AMS closes (if it closes). 100th Street opening???? hmmmmmm
15) No artics.
19) Let's hope this never happens
25) Where is everyone getting the idea that GH is going Orion? Just because they have 7 of them now, doesn't mean a thing. A lot has to happen for GH to go Orion/Artic, and with no new buses on the horizon, can someone tell me how this will happen.
Otherwise nice job prognosticating.
Mark
Here's some more:
1) No more bus crashes(I hope)
2) QV will get all of the 1--'s from Yukon
3) ENY will lose some of its Novas(it has too many)
4) Yukon should become all express(since they don't even have a lot of local buses)
5) MCI's in Queens will only be use on X-routes(just like BK and SI)
6) With the convertion some of the 85'GMC's will die(like the ones at QV, if more Orions come in.
7) The 86'GMC's will stay away from Ridgewood & Maspeth.
8) The C-line will stick with its R32's.
9) Ulmer Park should get ENY's 9000's.
10) The 3400's in Manhattan will die(there are enough buses to replace them in the convertion)
11 Fresh Pond riders will get to enjoy the R143's the most.
Only 27 Hours until 2002.
-Jay
Started off on the B1 with a regular NOVABUS(not a express bus mind you) and transferred to the DOT Shuttle Bus. The driver on the B1 was complaining about a "Merge" for the new year, where a driver might run a route from Brooklyn in the AM and then drive a route in Queens in PM(First i've heard of this).
Connected to the M15 at South Ferry and got another NOVABUS. Was trying for the Flyers, but the dispatcher said that 3 of them had allready left. I also ehard that the M1 and M6 were supposed to return to South Ferry within sometime soon, but do not know when. Transferred from the M15 to the M31(another NOVABUS) and then connected from that bus to the M7(Orion,yeah!).
When i got to Port Authority, i saw lots of the new MCI buses, in the 7800 and 6000's series with different paint jobs. Mine was not a new bus, but #6252(A MCI). Took it to connect with the 817 route(formally the M17 route-another NOVA).
My copmlaints and sighting were, i saw a New Flyer articluated bus parked in a stoage yard near NJ Turnpike and did not see the number, what was it and what garages do the #116 and #62 come from and do they have new buses yet?
B1-#9089-NOVABUS Run 011
DOT Shuttle-#4906-TMCRTS06-run 0322
M15-#9034-NOVABUS-run 026
M31-#5052-NOVABUS-run 009
M7-#216-Orion V-run 014
116-#6252-MCI-9-run 21
817-#1198-NOVABUS(no run #)
[My copmlaints and sighting were, i saw a New Flyer articluated bus parked in a stoage yard near NJ Turnpike and did not see the number, what was it and what garages do the #116 and #62 come from and do they have new buses yet?]
I am merely guessing that, if you saw the NF artic bus in Perth Amboy, it may have been one of the new buses going into Rutgers service very shortly for Academy. I believe the #116 may operate out of Ironbound garage. Up until several weeks back, Ironbound was about the only garage in NJ with 6000 series cruisers that had not gotten any new D4000's, but I believe some D4000's may have come in there very recently. #62 may also operate from Ironbound but, in any event, most of the service on the #62 is provided by the 1750-19xx series Flxible buses from around 1994.
Tell me where I can find the most # of the MCI classics, and orion 700-series buses. Also, do you know what time these buses depart 34th/3rd aves. in the PM? thanx
So WMATA discovered it has buses, huh? Now that they can't fit any more people on the trains, they decided to give a little TLC to the buses in order to ease the crowding on the Metrorail system, and fill in the gaps between rail lines. WHAT A NOVEL IDEA!!!!! Extending the service hours to meet late trains is a good start. Maybe WMATA can equalize the weekday schedule of the C2/4 line (an important cross-county route) with the Saturday schedule. It's stupid to stop this line at 8PM on weekdays, but run this line till 2am on Fridays and Saturdays.
Here's an idea, why don't WMATA designate certain bus lines as MAIN routes, others as SECONDARY routes, and others as LOCAL Feeders. The MAIN routes would have service hours that match Metrorail hours. The SECONDARY routes service hours would closely match Metrorail hours, give or take up to 2 hours, and the LOCAL Feeders service hours would be as needed. For example, from the Wheaton Station:
1) The C4, Q2, and Y8 would be MAIN ROUTES
2) The C2, Y6 would be SECONDARY ROUTES
3) All other METROBUS routes running out of this station would be LOCAL Feeders, running as needed (rush hours, midday, etc)
This example does exclude Ride-On buses (they'll make their own distinctions)
So let's get some reaction to my idea. Just post your replies to this board.
Thanks to all of y'all in the TRANSIT BUFF business
Mark De Loatch (mdlbigcat@aol.com)
That is good news. I always thought WMATA had a good bus system when I went there; my only gripe was that for every bus not going towards the Smithsonian there seemed to be about 70 of them going to Maryland. This was around 1997; I'm not sure if anything has changed.
-F.
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Ooh...BEAUTIFUL!!! I LOVE IT!!! Keep 'em COMING, Trevor!
-Fred
According to the TT Rosters 997-998 are at Quill.
Will they see X90/92 service?
I though they would be put with 996 at CS.
They will eventually join CS! But as of now they are at Quill in the Maintenance Facility for thier final check ups before service.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
As part of the recent counterterrorism package given to WMATA, the entire Metrobus fleet (1,400 units) will be fitted with digital cameras onboard for security. An added benefit of the cameras, suggest officials, will be to cut down on fraudulent passenger-injury claims: in the past five years, WMATA has paid out more than $21 million to passengers claiming injury by or on Metrobuses.
The Washington Post article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40107-2001Dec29.html
. . . a whirlwind couple of days. If I get a moment, I'll type up my recent SEPTA, MTA-NYCT, and NJTransit observations and post them here.
C
My opinion is probably contrary to the popular one, but I really do not like surveillance cameras on buses.
First, I don't see how the activity on board a transit bus has anything to do with large-scale terrorism - this is especially true since these cameras are not real-time. By that logic, we may as well place security cameras in every public restroom stall to thwart potential terrorist activity there.
Second, regarding safety, I actually feel less safe when there is a camera on a bus. When I see a camera, I think 'Hmm, if there has to be a camera here, then it must be an unsafe place.' I'll admit, when I first started to use public transportation, safety was a concern of mine. But after a few rides, I realized that as long as I kept my street smarts about me, there was absolutely nothing to be scared of. Also, I have confidence in the professionalism of the driver to take care of anything that may go wrong on the bus.
Third, I just do not like being peered at from seven angles by digital cameras as I ride a bus. Why should any agency, transit or law enforcement, be able to observe me en route? Of course, it's a stretch to think that TAs actually go back and study the riding habits of random, harmless passengers, but still, I do not like being recorded as I do routine things.
The one merit I can see with digital cameras is the reduction in false injury claims. But I think if drivers were trained to be more attentive after accidents, then this problem would be reduced.
I agree with you on the privacy issues; also on the safety issues: if the cameras can't be centrally monitored in real-time, their usefulness is certainly diminished. I'm not against the cameras per se, but I think that for the millions of dollars that this program will cost (plus the thousands more in annual maintenance as the fragile cameras break and malfunction under the severe duty cycle), Metro might do better in pursuing its stated goal of safety and security by using the same monies to put more officers on board buses and at transit centers.
C
>>> I don't see how the activity on board a transit bus has anything to do with large-scale terrorism <<<
I think you are way off base in your opposition to cameras on buses. Of course they have nothing to do with large-scale terrorism, but if the bucks are there the WMATA will give it whatever name will work.
>>> I actually feel less safe when there is a camera on a bus. When I see a camera, I think 'Hmm, if there has to be a camera here, then it must be an unsafe place. <<<
Now that is just plain irrational. Would you feel safer never seeing a policeman on the streets? Never seeing a guard in a bank? One of the purposes of the cameras is to deter crime. Anyone who may be contemplating a crime (and has half a brain) knows there will be a photographic record of his presence on the bus. This will not stop the type of anti-social career criminal who robs liquor stores or banks (both places usually having surveillance cameras) but it certainly helps catch and convict them. It may also help identify and catch more subtle criminals such as pickpockets who might be seen several times on different buses when losses are reported and con artists who start a pigeon drop on a bus.
>>> I just do not like being peered at from seven angles by digital cameras as I ride a bus. Why should any agency, transit or law enforcement, be able to observe me en route? <<<
Your paranoia is showing. What could be more public than a transit bus? This is hardly an invasion of your privacy, and could even inure to your benefit. Suppose you are suspected or a crime and asked "where were you two days ago at 7:00 P.M.?" And you could get a photographic record of your whereabouts to provide an alibi.
>>> The one merit I can see with digital cameras is the reduction in false injury claims. But I think if drivers were trained to be more attentive after accidents, then this problem would be reduced. <<<
This type of fraud is very expensive to defend against in court, and therefore most transit agencies settle costing millions of dollars. The cameras are a two edged sword in that they will confirm legitimate claims and weed out the false ones. That way the transit agency can quickly settle the legitimate ones and show the frauds that they will not win in court.
To give you an example, I was on a jury in which the transit agency was being sued for six figures over alleged injuries to a cute five year old child. The undisputed facts were that the bus was at a bus stop about 40 feet before an intersection. The B/O pulled away from the stop directly forward. He became aware that a truck pulling double trailers was trying to make a right turn in the intersection from the lane to the left of the bus. The B/O stopped the bus. The truck driver was negotiating the turn very slowly, and the only contact between the vehicles was when the right rear corner of the second trailer contacted the outside left rear view mirror on the bus (without breaking the glass) while the truck was moving at less than 5 mph and the bus was stationary. The B/O testified that he traveled less than 20 feet and brought the bus to a safe smooth stop after starting up from the bus stop. There were witnesses testifying to severe injuries suffered by the child. The child's mother testified that the bus came to such a sudden stop that her daughter was thrown from her forward facing seat and suffered severe injuries sliding along the floor until she was stopped by striking something up front. The trial took two days and the jury was out for four hours before bringing back a 9-3 defense verdict. My guess is that successfully defending the case cost in excess of $25,000.00. Even worse, if the child was really injured on the bus due to the B/O's negligence there was a gross miscarriage of justice. A photographic record of what happened on that bus would have prevented the trial. This sort of fact situation where it is the B/O's word against a passenger happens thousands of times each year in a big city. Most times it is settled with a payment to the claimant.
Tom
Miami-Dade transit has been using digital cameras on buses since the '98 NABI buses arrived.
The cameras are a tremendous tool for risk management, the agency, and its employees.
Here are three examples:
Case 1: The B/O makes an emergency stop to avoid a pedestrian that stepped into the street. One injury on the bus. She is transported. As I, the transit supervisor, am documenting and photographing the scene, a car drives up. A full 30 minutes after the accident happened, a man claims his wife was on the bus and suffered injuries. The woman steps up limping badly and the B/O recognised her and stated she didn't fall on the aisle. As her husband started to verbally confront the B/O I steeped in and told her not to worry. As I pointed to the low profile cameras with their little red light, I told them that the camera recorded it all and would prove their case. It will not prove fraud as the operator states. The woman then stepped off the bus, minus the limp, and into her car. Husband in tow. My sarcastic pleas for their information were ignored as they drove away. All recorded.
Case 2: I arrived at a Metrorail Station where a minor called police and claimed that he was assaulted by a B/O. Police was considering making an arrest at the scene. They were persuaded not to until the video could be reviewed. The B/O never touched the kid. Complaint dismissed.
Case 3: Review of an on board accident where a passenger falls. Her wine bottle is clearly visible as the open container spills.
You can argue that it's a privacy issue. But our video data packs are only pulled when an incident occurs. It's reliable, low profile, and a great tool for the agency and its employees.
Joe
I think that every transit agency put these on every bus, light rail, and heavy rail car in their system. Its a valuable tool in crime prevention, and the insurance value can be immesurable. Here in sue-happy Philly, if these cams were installed in every SEPTA bus, maybe we poor riders would pay less than the 2 bucks to get on the bus today. A large chunk of that fare goes to pay off all of the people who think SEPTA has deep pockets, and sue them for every little bump and bruise. Also, in Philly, if an accident occurs between a SEPTA vehicle and a car owned by an unisured motorist, guess who pays all of the costs? A hint, its not the motorist.
Speaking of SEPTA cams, very few buses have these-they are almost non existent. I remember seeing on of the 40ft Neoplans years ago that had a camera. I know that Rt 100 car 155 has a bunch of cameras, and the M4 cars supposedly have these cameras as well. However, this camera thing is old-why aren't SEPTA buses coming in with cameras now? In fact, why does SEPTA keep testing things on buses, like cams, LEDs, old Neoplans with DD series engines, and bike racks, but they never follow through with these things. They certainly haven't advertised anything about taking bikes on buses. The LEDs for the Neoplans (3200, 7101) have been used for the New Flyers, so that's understandable. What about the DD series engines for the AN440 Neoplans (3414)? Anyway, SEPTA seems to try out a lot of things, but often don't follow through with these ideas, at least in my opinion.
I remember seeing on of the 40ft Neoplans years ago that had a camera. I know that Rt 100 car 155 has a bunch of cameras, and the M4 cars supposedly have these cameras as well. However, this camera thing is old-why aren't SEPTA buses coming in with cameras now?
The 40-ft Neos which were camera equipped were assigned to the 23 route; those buses are assigned to Midvale and Southern. On some of the 3000s assigned to Midvale, there is a sticker that says "Camera Bus/7 Bay". As to why SEPTA didn't follow through with cameras on other buses, it all has to do with $$$.
In fact, why does SEPTA keep testing things on buses, like cams, LEDs, old Neoplans with DD series engines, and bike racks, but they never follow through with these things. They certainly haven't advertised anything about taking bikes on buses. The LEDs for the Neoplans (3200, 7101) have been used for the New Flyers, so that's understandable. What about the DD series engines for the AN440 Neoplans (3414)? Anyway, SEPTA seems to try out a lot of things, but often don't follow through with these ideas, at least in my opinion.
3414 was designed to be the only 3000-3491 series Neo with a DDC 50 engine and Allison transmission. 3414 was originally designed to be the test bus for that powertrain, prior to the arrival of the NABIs in 1995.
As for the bike racks, there is talk that SEPTA will retrofit a few hundred buses with bike racks within the next year. I haven't been able to confirm that just yet, however. The ElDorados were the first buses to get the bike racks since that order was placed after the New Flyer order. The New Flyer contract went out in late 1998 (I don't remember exactly which month it was; I just remember the SEPTA Board meeting for that month was held at Midvale Depot). The ElDorado order was placed after the ill-fated attempt to get the 30 foot buses from Metrotrans, which went out of business. That order was placed in April 2000. That would have been the first order under which SEPTA could've had bike racks installed at the time of the order.
At the time the New Flyer order was signed off on, Pennsylvania law prohibited the use of bike racks on transit buses. It wasn't until 1999 when Gov. Ridge signed a bill ending that prohibition. Centre Area TA in State College (Penn State/Centre County area) was the first system in Pennsylvania to install bike racks on it's buses.
3200 originally had the same Luminator sign as the rest of the 3000s, however it was retrofit in 1997 with a TwinVision LeDot sign. 3200 served as the demo bus for the LeDot signs, which would first appear on the Neoplan artic order. (Breeze buses 2056-2069 have a similar TwinVision sign, but those buses have the same model as the ex-Rutgers RTS buses owned by Coach USA. Those buses arrived a few months before the artics, but they don't really count in my book.)
Last year, 7101 was retrofit with the TwinVision All-LED destination and block sign. Of course, we're seeing that LED sign on the Flyers that are arriving. I would suspect the 5401-5500 series have all been accepted on SEPTA property by now.
(Speaking of Flyers, as I post this from the Collingdale Library, I saw 5409 pass by a few minutes ago as a 113 to 69 St Terminal.)
This is very true. I was on a bus one time that hit a pedestrian who ran out in front of the bus in a hurry to get to the bank and the TA could have really used those as everyone claims the "WALK" sign was on at the intersection. As a witness, I let the police know that the driver did everything he could.
I decline to say where this took place, but the incident occured in a town full of assholes who have a FLAGRANT disregard for bus safety, whose cars roll three feet over over the stop bar and refuse to back up for a bus making a turn that is MUCH bigger than they are, and assume that 30,000 pounds can stop on a dime like a sports car and that they are invincible when on foot.
What's more, the majority of its population assumes that buses are useless and should be taken off the streets in favor of small vans. Meanwhile, they bitch and complain about traffic on their highways. What a bunch of knaves.
Absolutely. In all of those incidents, the cameras quietly saved the day. Are they retrofitting them on the Flxes as well?
-F.
<< Are they retrofitting them on the Flxes as
<Not yet. But the NABI LFs due for delivery next yeat come with an additional camera facing out the front windshield for a forward view.
That is a great idea; a lot can happen at that part of the bus.
-F.
This is true here. As far as our paranoid subject who has voiced themselves in this thread, if you are so paranoid of cameras, you should have someone to go to the bank for you, send someone else to Kinko's for your copies, forget about an afternoon at the museum and just look at their website, and have your food delivered rather than go out to a restaurant. For that matter, if cameras are that damned scary to someone, they should just live in a cave and never go out.
Cameras are a way of life and are there for your safety and others.
Also, any claim against a TA, no matter whether it is true or false, can ultimately shut it down and screw up an entire municipality full of people that depend on it for local travel to live everyday life. While it may confirm actual incidents, it can also weed out the fraudulent claims and save the day for everyone involved.
That is a good idea; fraudulent claims are ALL they need. I hope this helps WMATA out effectively.
-F.
Is this a pic of 1998 after being destroyed?
go to the following:
http://www.subwaywebnews.com/wtc/Terrorist17.jpg
I am watching "SPEED" on FX at the moment and have a couple concerns: for one, the Grumman that blows up at the beginning (sniff, sniff) sounds more like a New Look pulling off than an ADB. Was this creative sound editing, perhaps?
Also, when the Fishbowl makes a turn, a glass taillight with a black outline arrow is shown blinking. I thought these had solid plastic lenses and that those type of lights were an Old Look or Mack thing? Also, the rear taillight panel looks more like one from a 5301 (smaller red lights below the taillights) yet the speedometer has a red jewel light at 55; wouldn't that signify that it is a post-1974 model what with the speed limits, or was that part of the governor system in all years? And when did governors first show up on transits?
Inquiring minds want to know!
-F.
The Grumman sounded like the ones we had in Houston.
The New Look (2525 which was used in another movie) is an 80's model from Canada.
There were something like 5 different buses actually used to make speed, and some interior shots were done using an entirely different type of bus. The buses were all older than 1980's vintage - look at the marker lights! They are the 5303 style.....
See message # 41675 from "gmartic" - it tells what buses were used.
Did Houston have 6v or 8v71s? Most Grummans or Flx Metros with the 6v have more of a spacey whistle to their sound, which is somewhat different from the "roar" of the New Looks with that engine. Also, I thought the Canada Fishbowls were sans A/C after 1977?
-F.
How could GMD (GM of Canada) of discontinued building A/C as an option in 1977?
Of all the GMD's I have rode ALL but 5034 have A/C on them.
These include Santa Monica's, as well as Double A 1415 (Orig Queens Steinway #8).
Maybe us El LAy busfan are spoiled since we get to ride the last order built for Santa Monica in 1986 featuring A/C but of course.
But then ask yourself why did the NY Bus Service GMD's come with A/C?
However most of the busfans will assume that when GM in Pontiac discontinued the new look in 1976 in favor of the RTS that they suddenly started building them in London and St. Eustahe.
A local enthusiast can attest to this fact as he was driving buses from the factory for GM to the destination cities at the time.
GM of Canada was building buses since the 5301's hit the scene.
This weekends Auto Show Shuttle here in LA will be interesting as it will feature our buses of GM, GMD, and TMC heritage amongst other oddities.
Mr.Blue
I see...well, for some reason just about every Canadian Fishbowl I have ever seen has no A/C unit on the back. I thought it was because of the colder climates of Canada but was not sure. Those things just look naked without the A/C units! Also, does NYBS still run those? I do know they still run Classics. I have a Corgi in Lionel City Bus Service colors; it looks just like the NYBS colors right down to the lettering but is sans A/C. Also, it looks to be a later model as it has black bumpers and orange rear turn signals.
-F.
That Corgi Lionel City bus isn't a newer model, just one with slightly different paint details. The bumpers are the same exact ones that are on every other Corgi fishbowl. As for rear turn signals being orange, lenses could be changed easily on any of the real buses to whatever color an owner wanted.
I see; I never knew the amber lenses were offered on the Fishbowl; I thought they were more of an 80s thing, i.e. the RTS and Flx Metro. Oddly, the Lionel Corgi Fishbowl features a side ad for the "all-new" 1953 Lionel catalog...on a bus that would not be produced for another six years.
-F.
8v71s according to Trevor. They were pretty fast once they got going and VERY loud on the outside.
I know; we have one in the back of our restored 76 Flx New Look from PenTran at CC&T. It sounds great in flight and really hauls the mail!
-F.
Almost all the USA operations that bought GMD fishbowls after 1977 got them WITH a/c. Santa Monica is a prime example, they got the fishbowls right up to the very last one built (SMMBL 5180) WITH a/c.
It's the Canadian outfits that usually do NOT opt for a/c....they don't have as much need for it being further north and in cooler territory.
Do you know if Santa Monica plans on keeping bus 5180 after the others are retired from service? I've been told that even now they see limited use and their days are somewhat numbered. Sure be a shame to scrap the very LAST fishbowl ever produced.
I was on vacation in California July 4th week 2001. My girlfriend and I made a trip to Santa Monica to see if any fishbowls were still in service, and was quite pleased to see some in service. We stopped by the SMMBL offices and garage and asked if we could take a few pics of some of the fishbowls parked in the yard. The office person who escorted us to the yard to allow us to take photos explained that the fishbowls are primarily used on 2 routes at rush hours, IIRC those routes are the Super 7 (a limited stop route 7 service) and the Route 10 which runs to Los Angeles. They also see school tripper service as well. They have about 25 or so left and the most important questions I asked were: how much longer will they be in service? I was told they would be replaced within 2 years. Will at least one be kept and preserved by SMMBL? I was told that was being considered, and the one that would be kept will be 5180, which is the only Santa Monica bus still in the original "Speed" colors. The office person is aware of the fact that 5180 is the last fishbowl ever made, and he understands the significance of this bus. I asked what will happen to the others (sold, scrapped) he said most likely they will be sold at auction. They do have a website (www.bigbluebus.com) and hopefully they will post a sale notice there, or anyone interested could possibly e-mail there for info.
By the way, yes we did ride 2 bowls on the Super 7 route that day. Time constraints prevented us from more riding.
I sure hope they don't kill any. Good to hear they are still using some in regular service; also, I did not realize most all of them were in the newer scheme. It's very cool that they kept the 5180 in the original scheme. I hope they preserve that bus!
-F.
Yes 5180 has been decided to be the hysteric fleet bus.
NOTE "Speed" copied the color scheme shared by SMMBL and San Diego Transit.
Anyways as for the other SMMBL new looks 5172 is painted solid red and is the "Holiday Bus" while the entire rest of the fleet is in a horrible (And very hard to photograph the color is so awful) all Barney Blue paint scheme.
In direct sunlight the color appears to be a powder blue and when under diffused light a medium blue, and when dark is a DARK blue. Like a mood ring.
Sadly the old regime of SMMBL and its paint scheme have been replaced.
An ironic note.
The now former director of SMMBL has gone to LACMTA and is now considered one of the key players in breaking up the agency into 4 zones.
The real people to suffer will be the drivers/mechanics and of course the riding public.
Life in LA grinds along.
Mr.Blue
That sounds about right; that's what I figured. Also, which US transit companies got post-77s besides Santa Monica? I'm curious....
-F.
If I am not mistaken the MBTA purchased post 77 new looks as did Queens Transit here in New York.
That sounds about right; I do know CTA of Chicago had some and seem to recall that UTA of Salt Lake City had some 1981 versions. Also, it is still a mystery to me of when US production stopped in Pontiac; some say 1976, while others say 1977. Any thoughts?
-F.
According to the OMOT web site, the last US Fishbowls were built in 1977.
As far as Canadian Fishbowls go, the last ones built for US systems were the 1985 T8H-5307As built for Santa Monica and Miami-Dade Airport. Other US systems to have Canadian Fishbowls include Connecticut Transit, Topeka, Indianapolis, San Diego, Denver, St. Louis, and Portland, Oregon. Fishbowl production in Canada started to wind down around 1983-1984.
I see. Thanks for the info!
-F.
The MBTA in Boston did purchase 152 GM-Canada New Looks in 1979-80. Also, SRTA in Fall River, MA purchased a small number of 35-footers in 1981.
I'm not sure, but I believe that CT Transit in Hartford, CT also purchased some 40-foot New Looks in the early 1980's.
Jim D.
Wow...neato. I'd love to see pics of those!
-F.
In NYC most of the DOT companies. All except Liberty Lines and Command got GMDD T8H-5307A's around 1979. NYBS got theirs' in 1981/2.
Wayne
There were a couple of strange things about that bus, the taillights with the black outline arrow were just one thing. My guess is this fishbowl was from around '63, since it has the round marker lights but still the old "GM" logo. I never recall the New Looks having that access panel in the floor by the farebox. I'm guessing this is something they added for the movie? 2525 also makes a brief appearance in the film "Spy Hard" where they do a parody of "Speed". You will note the speedometer as well as the interior lights were changed for that film. Perhaps they used a different bus?
The bus used in the Leslie Neilson film was actually an ex Stockton TDH 4519 that was also a stunt bus in the movie Speed. The bus was used one more time after that for an action film where we dressed it up at MRTT Bus Lines. I forget the name of the movie but for those of you who have seen it... you understand why that was the last movie for that bus. Its long been scrapped.
How many of the 2525s have survived? I understand that one of them sans engine is hanging in the rafters of Universal Studios in Florida.
-F.
Hmm...interesting. Any idea where the Fishbowl from "Police Academy 6" came from? It looked similar to 2525 but said "UTA" on the front and had regular steel wheels.
-F.
The marker lights on the tailgates of all the buses used in Speed were changed so that they were directional signals. It was the directors choice, not mine. All we did was change the directional circut to the tailgate to flash the marker light. They claimed it was more "dramatic" The speedometers were actually out of 1956?? Ford automobiles. I believe they were thuderbirds. Since I am a huge GM bus fan and have been doing movies with these types of buses for 15 years or so.. I was not thrilled at some of the changes they wanted to make but the all mighty dollar won me over.
The dollar situation is understandable. How would a 1956 Ford have a jeweled light at 55 MPH? I thought highway speed was higher back then. Where did you find an arrowed marker light? And yes, it did look more dramatic. Good work there!
-F.
We had DUMB and DUMBER on this week over here as a late night movie. Right at the end an Eagle coach loaded with "Bikini Babes" heading to Hawaii is used.
It has Fleet No 107 ,a blue stripe and a red stripe on top of a white rear end.
Anybody know who's fleet it was in as 107.