Hello,
Thanks for your patience, Bustalk (and Subtalk) are back. Visit Subtalk to see what I've been up to.
-Dave.
Welcome back! Time to hop back on the bus!
Dave, it's great to see the site back. BusTalk became an everyday part of my life and its absence made me realize how much I took it for granted. Thank you for bringing it back; hope you had a great trip!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
As reported in National Bus Trader, an insustry publication, the custom 96-inch MCI D4000 coaches being built for New Jersey Transit will officially be designated "D4000N", with the N meaning "narrow".
Nice...I can't wait to see it. Thanks!
-F.
Welcome back to Bustalk everybody!
In the bus world, LI Buses are getting some new destination sign readings, but these are special. So far I have seen
GOD BLESS AMERICA
WE STAND UNITED
Has anybody seen these on NYCT buses as well? LI Buses are displaying these patriotic signs when they are not in service.
I saw a "God Bless America" sign on a L.I. bus last week while it was in service. He had a tumbler destination sign in the lower windshield while driving up Hillside ave towards the 165th st terminal. I don't know of any plans to program the NYCT buses with the custom phrases. The only buses that used to have them were the 1981 RTS's. However, I recently saw an RTS that was being used at the WTC disaster site that said "WTC disaster zone" or something like that on the destination sign.
BIG AL
P.S. Nice having bustalk back again.
That's great to hear. A couple months ago, I finished a pair of 30-foot Flx Metro models for someone here at BusTalk and included the same messages on their destination signs as a gratis. How ironic ad wonderful that the signs have come to real life buses on the streets!
-F.
>>> LI Buses are getting some new destination sign readings, <<<
In Los Angeles we have those same things not only on electronic bus head signs, but also on the Red Line electronic signs. Even the signs on the rear of buses which give the line number only, have been programmed to display a caricature of an American flag. At the risk of sounding unpatriotic, I dislike having anything other than the destination or routing information on the head sign. In the downtown area, there are a few streets where as many as 12 different lines stop at the same bus stop. When I see a bus coming I want to identify its destination as soon as possible. If several buses are arriving one after another, it is hard to get even a glimpse at the following buses. The present rotation flashes "GOD BLESS" followed by "AMERICA" followed by the destination. The destination is there only 1/3 of the time. The side signs mimic the head signs, so even after the bus has stopped in front of me I am not sure if this is the bus I want, or if I should be walking back to the following bus. I suspect God has better things to do than read the head signs on buses, and therefore I think it is an improper place to request His blessings. I also do not like the "GOOD MORNING" or "GO LAKERS" or any of the other extraneous messages that are displayed at other times for the same reason.
Tom
Well LI Bus is only displaying the signs when not in service. On a run carrying passengers the regular destination is always displayed, which makes the most sense.
>>> LI Bus is only displaying the signs when not in service. <<<
That makes sense. Of course, common sense is not something Southern California is noted for. I guess those in control here think that if it is possible to put the extraneous messages on the signs it should be done at all times. Somewhat like children with a new toy.
Tom
SoCal is for those who love cars, not trains. As a result, I really have no desire to visit SoCal, except for the scenery and the way the women dress (they do wear those skimpy summer dresses down there don't they?).
SoCal is for those who love cars, not transit. As a result, I really have no desire to visit SoCal, except for the scenery and the way the women dress (they do wear those skimpy summer dresses down there don't they?). But the women there probably require the guys to drive a car. Better stick to new arrivals to Chinatown, with those oversized Dragon clips. I'm just lookin for a girl fresh from China, sorta like this
I guess I can't link pictures anymore!! Sorry about the triple post.
For some reason I keep getting it wrong. Well if you want to see a girl fresh from China here's my web page
http://www.geocities.com/reality569/index.html
Just scan to the bottom. A also put a WTC memorial at the beginning.
* - The first of 300 New Flyer D40LFs have arrived on SEPTA property. The 300 coaches will be delivered over the next 2-3 years, with 100 due by the end of this year. At present, about 30 New Flyers are on SEPTA property. 5401-5460 will be assigned to Callowhill, 5461-5490 will be assigned to Southern, and 5491-5500 will be assigned to Red Arrow. The second batch (5501-5600) will be sent to Comly, Frankford, and Midvale. I don't know how the 5601-5700 series will be broken down just yet.
* - Neoplan DK Suburban 3119 is out of service following an electrical fire last week. The front of the bus looks completely burned out, and it's most likely that 3119 will be stripped for parts within the next few weeks.
* - There was a trolley accident in Darby last night. Two 11 trolleys hit each other at the intersection of 9 & Main Sts (for those not familiar with how the 11 trolley operates, it turns off of Main St - Woodland Av in Philadelphia - onto 9 St, then into the Darby Loop, exiting via a left turn onto Main). 9004 was turning onto 9 St towards Darby Loop when the rear of that trolley hit the side of 9030, which was heading towards the 40 St El Station. At least 4 ambulance companies were called (from what people told me, 5-6 people were taken to local hospitals with minor injuries) to the scene. Service was disrupted for about 60-90 minutes.
Besides that, there really hasn't been much on the SEPTA front over the past few weeks...
How did SEPTA sneak another 100 Flyers in there? Obviously more of them will be needed at Victory and Frontier Garages. In one of the local yokel papers, there were complaints about the Victory (Red Arrow) buses being rejects from the City Division. I laughed about that because Victory has the largest number of Eldorados at SEPTA, and they are new buses. This kvetching should stop when the New Flyers come on line.
Speaking of El Dorados, it seems as if they are being moved around again. Like on the 95, which used to be dominated by El Dorados, seems to now be dominated by Cutaways (ugh). Anyway, Victory needs those buses anyway, since a lot of the routes use them in off peak hours.
How did SEPTA sneak another 100 Flyers in there?
This was an option to the original 1998 contract, which called for 200 D40LF buses. The SEPTA Board approved the option at it's meeting last month.
Obviously more of them will be needed at Victory and Frontier Garages.
Probably not at Frontier. I'm told that they won't be getting any low floors due to the steep grade turning off of Swede St into the Norristown Transportation Center.
In one of the local yokel papers, there were complaints about the Victory (Red Arrow) buses being rejects from the City Division. I laughed about that because Victory has the largest number of Eldorados at SEPTA, and they are new buses. This kvetching should stop when the New Flyers come on line.
For starters, there are only 10 New Flyers going to Red Arrow. For another, the complaints about junk being sent to Red Arrow is not unfounded. There are at least 23 ex-CTD buses assigned to Red Arrow; the CTD took most of the 33xx and 34xx soft seat Neoplans and essentially returned a lot of non-wheelchair accessible buses to the suburban depots.
Also, there are 21 ElDorados at Red Arrow, while Midvale has 24, but that's a minor point (Midvale has too many for the routes in which they need them for).
There is also a legitmate concern about an insufficient number of buses at Red Arrow, which has had the same number of buses for nearly three years despite an increase in vehicles required to maintain peak service.
I guess that was a Flyer I saw driving along I-94 west of Chicago on Sunday night. I was just tooling along eastbound when I passed something I sure didn't expect so see - a SEPTA bus! Fool that I am I didn't take down the number, but it had plastic wrap across the dash so I figured it was being delivered. Does anyone know where it was being delivered from?
Most likely the New Flyer plant in Crookston, Minnesota, which I believe is near the North Dakota border. As of this past weekend, I have been able to confirm at least 30 New Flyers on SEPTA property. It's possible that the first 100 of these buses will be on SEPTA property by the end of the year, depending on how deliveries go.
new flyer has been seen on the 44,40,52,and the 38.i took two pictures of 5406 with the orange light.i also find a site with photos of the buses.
communities.msn.com/TheSEPTABusPhotosandSEPTAMessageBroad/ PhotoAlbum
All the new Flyer buses don't have the orange LEDs, do they?
Yes they do. I've never been a big fan of the TwinVision flip dot signs seen on the artics or the ElDorados, but the LED signs look much better. In direct sunlight, however, they're not quite as easy to read.
So the El Dorados and Neoplan artics actually have flip dot signs? I could've sworn those were LEDs, though, especially at night when I wouldn't really see the light that would shine on the destination screen, like with the NABIs.
new flyers has been seen on the G,38.
the newflyer has a top speed of 60mph
also i rode the new flyer on the 52.it feel weird ride the bus with no step.It i also faster but sound like the nabi.
Is that really true? I would've thought they would've sounded like the artics, since a friend of mine heard these buses in Cleveland that had the same engine and transmission. Anyway, wht kind of transmissions do the SEPTA new flyers have?
The same transmission as the Neoplan artics and (possibly) ElDorados; an Allison B500R 5-speed automatic. The engine sound is similar to the Orion V diesels at NYCT and WMATA.
the eldorado have a b-300r
the neoplan b500r
new flyer b-400r(5 speed)
On the 40? That route almost always sees Neoplans. I never knew of a NABI ever being used on the 40 or the G, but I guess SEPTA's able to use the low floors on those two routes.
I dobut the New Flyers would work too well on the 52 since that's a very high volume route, and the Flyers have 5 less seats than a NABI.
BTW, I also saw the New Flyers on the 21, 42, and 65 yesterday.
Saw on WMATA's website that there will be a new route from the Greenbelt Metro to BWI Airport and the BWI Business Park starting Nov. 13. The B30, as it will be called will be running 7 days a week, all day and charging the $2.00 express fee.
It would take quite awhile, but this could make for an interesting trip to the Inner Harbor if someone has the patience to get to Greenbelt, take the bus up to BWI, which will be about a 30 minute trip and take the Light Rail into downtown Baltimore.
Since I've heard that the census is about to combine DC and Baltimore into one urbanized area, I wonder if this will lead to more WMATA service to Baltimore and more MTA service to DC, espeically on weekends?
When I take my trip to DC on 11/17, my iteneary will go like this:
1)AMTRAK from Philly to Baltimore Penn Station
2)MTA Light Rail from Penn Station to BWI
3)WMATA B30 from BWI to Greenbelt
4)Green Line to Downtown DC
Let`s hope that this trip will be successful.
On the other hand, this new route will present a intresting connection between MTA and WMATA. I think this is the first time these two systems have any type of meet or connection outside of the weekday commuter bus and rail service, and the occasional special service for the Orioles. For someone who is used to connecting between 2 or more systems (SEPTA-NJT-PATCO-PATH-NYCTA-LIRR-METRO-NORTH-BEE LINE-CT TRANSIT-DART), this is a treat.
I think the 90 minute journey between DC and Baltimore will be palatable considering that the fare will be dirt cheap, less that 5 bucks one way, compared to the Amtrak or Greyhound fares. I for one, would prefer a cheap fare than a quick journey, if the trip time is reasonable.
Good luck with that trip! It would be great if you could post a report when you get back to see how that goes. I believe the B30 runs every 40 minutes. The stop will be at Terminal E at BWI. I think that's near the light rail stop. You can also stay on the Light Rail to the next stop, the BWI Business Park and pick up the bus there as well, but you'd be backtracking. I'm tempted to do a trip on a weekend, too, to see how this runs. Maybe around Thanksgiving I'll give it a shot.
Other than MARC at the DC area Metrorail Stations, which is run by MTA, this is definitely the first time there has been any regular interfacing between the two. It would be nice if MTA and WMATA could develop a transfer system or universal pass that would allow you to ride both without all the extra fares.
When you take Metrorail back to Greenbelt, make sure you get a rail to bus transer, so that instead of paying $2.00, the fare will be $1.15.
When I ride WMATA, I get the regional bus pass, and I get the All-Day pass on Metrorail, so the $7.50 cost is all I pay. But on this trip, I`ll pay all of the appropriate fares so I can give you an idea on how much it costs.
I'm figuring that one way during off peak it should cost you at the most $5.45 figuring that at the most, the one way metrorail fare would be $2.10, $2.00 on the bus and I believe its $1.35 one way on light rail. Definitely a bargain.
For bus assignments to that run, I'd assume that they'd use the Landover division. They have a lot of Low Floor Orion VI's, so maybe they'll use something like that or maybe they would even reassign some of the high backed seat buses to it. I was looking at the schedule and it looked like they'll need three buses at any one time. Maybe its time that they look into purchasing OTR coaches.
I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of "super pass" as I would call it be available for all transit in the area, to include MTA if this is to become more and more popular.
The State of Maryland has given consideration to introducing state-wide bus day passes, which would be beneficial along the Baltimore-Washington-Annapolis corridor. The passes proposed by Governor Glendenning would be valid on all Maryland transit systems and (I would assume) the Maryland WMATA bus routes. I don't know how far that plan has progressed, but I'm sure there'll be more talk about it.
I think most of the routes which serve Greenbelt Metro already operate out of Landover.
Landover Division runs the T-16 and R12 routes.
Montgomery Division runs the C2.
On Sundays, Bladensburg Division runs the 82 (or 84) I forget the number.
Michael
The transit agency that operates the Baltimore bus, subway & light rail and MARC service has undergone a change of name recently. It's now the Maryland Transit Administration. New (ugly) paint scheme has been introduced, a solid white body with black window mask with 2 large Maryland flag decals. So far seen only on buses, we shudder to see it on the LRV's.
As to joint fares with WMATA (other than MARC/VRE passes being good for either system) it does not look likely in the near future, thanks to the Maryland General Assembly which cut a large part of Glendenings transportation budget in the last session. Gone was the reduction of the base fare to $1.10 (from the current $1.35) plus a plan for joint fares with WMATA. Both systems are going to Smart Cards, which require a farebox replacement or major retrofit. WMATA will get theirs done long before the MTA does.
Well, look at it this way, Dan, the current bus paint scheme is nothing to write home about either. Have you seen any buses painted in the new scheme? I saw the NABI on the homepage and wondered whether such a bus actually existed yet or whether it was Photoshopped in as appears to have been done with the light rail picture.
Frankly, I'm glad to see an internal overhaul of MTA . . . they really need a new cohesive marketing strategy. Right now their transit service consists of several variegated properties -- subway, light rail, bus, heavy rail -- which are not as user-friendly as they might be, often duplicate service, and some cases, don't extend far enough or run frequently enough to be truly useful. If they can get it together under a new logo and new website, more power to them.
Chris
Two Quick things...
First...
About 20 coaches, mostly NABIs, including a good bit of new 0000s have been redone. One LRV is currently at North Avenue in all white, awaiting its decaling.
Second...
In a sense, the systems do have some compatibility. MTA service does honor the $2.50 National Captiol Regional One Day Bus Pass, although few people, including Operators are aware of this. It was not at all promoted, only one minor bulletin makes light of it.
Adam
Sweet picture, Adam. The Flxi looks better than I would have thought it would in the new scheme . . . I like elements of it, like the flag and the new logo a lot, but there's (as designers say) "too much white space," even with the ads. It needs striping or slashes or something to tie it all together.
Taking this scheme and running with it, though, wouldn't it be cool if MTA redid a special promo bus with a full-body wrap image of a waving American flag? That would be a head-turner!
Chris
Only the first few repaints have the ad going all the way down, the later ones have it stopping at the rub rail, making the bus particularly plain.
Have to agree with you about that wrap idea - sort of like the Boston Bicentennial vehicles back in '76!
You're right; cutting it off at the rub rail really detracts from the design.
Gorgeous picture! Veritable bus porn! Thanks for sharing it! ;)
Chris
very nice shot !!
question did you do this with a digital camera ?? etc....
Nice shot, but.....
My fear is that MTA will further cheap it out and the next version will elimate the black window mask, making the bus a big white block. (which the LRV in white, not having window masking is already.) Are the railroad roman numbers a casualty as well? That retro touch was a nice one, and it was done with the right typeface - the numbers have the right "tails".
BTW, check BSM's 1096 and Kevin Muller's bus for the wrong "tail"s on the railroad roman fonts.
I know; GOD, let's hope Baltimore doesn't turn into bleak white
s#!tboxes on wheels. I deal with enough of that here in Virginia.
-F.
Looks like it's going to.
Passed a 9400 on the way home from the streetcar place. It was in the new scheme, complete with a giant Maryland flag over the rear wheel well. But all that white......
Cheap, cheap, cheap.
I dream of those days when paint schemes were attractive.
I miss real paint schemes too.
In a sense, the systems do have some compatibility. MTA service does honor the $2.50 National Captiol Regional One Day Bus Pass, although few people, including Operators are aware of this. It was not at all promoted, only one minor bulletin makes light of it.
Does MTA honor the National Capitol Day Pass on Baltimore services, or are you referring to the commuter bus services to the southern part of Md. (ie. Queen Anne's)?
And I thought SEPTA was bad about passing info along to its operators...
MTA honors the regional bus pass on the entire Baltiimore System as initial fare. When I get to work, I'll take a photo of the bulletin and post it here if any one wants to print it out just in case they might try it and come across a less enlightened Operator.
Ugh. The black around the windows was a smart holdover, but the plain white. EWW....
-F.
that true at arundel miils where CAR J,KHT red x meets
I for one LOVE the current MTA paint scheme with the blue stripe and think those are some of the best-looking buses in the country, especially the Flxibles. I have seen that new paint scheme and it is terribly bland in comparision. I REALLY hope it is not adopted across the board.
-F.
true!!!!
[I for one, would prefer a cheap fare than a quick journey, if the trip time is reasonable.]
That reminds me of my August 1992 trek from downtown Los Angeles to the Mexican border. I rode the following routes: LACMTA (SCRTD at the time) Blue Line; Long Beach Transit #92; Orange County Transit #1; Orange County Transit #91; North (San Diego) County Transit #305; North County Transit #310; San Diego Transit #30; Red Trolley South Line. The trip took over nine hours on eight vehicles, but it cost only $2.90 with continuous transfers.
Wow, that's like a dream trip. Unfortunately, the transit systems in my part of New England don't interact very well -- RIPTA is great at covering the whole of RI, but there is no way that I've discovered -- and believe me I've been looking -- to connect with eastern Connecticut transit systems. On the plus side, MBTA does run a commuter train to Providence, so I can link up with Massachusett's transit system.
It would be really cool to try to make it all the way down the Northeast corridor using only public (ie municipal) transit. Probably take forever but be much cheaper than Amtrak, etc. I just wish transit systems linked better, which is why I'm so enthused to see WMATA making an overture to the MTA.
Chris
How neat! I'd love to travel between the two as I want to ride the MTA and WMATA soon. Thanks for the info!
-Fred
WOW! I hope WMATA takes MTA Transfers and Bus Passes. Maybe even one day. They could be a special Day Pass that you could use on WMATA,Ride On,and Baltmore MTA for a Bargan!
Much unknown to much of the world or most transit riders here,
The WMATA and Ride-On "National Capitol Regional One Day Bus Pass" is good on WMATA, Ride On, Howard Transit, Connect-a-Ride, Nixons, and is honored by the Baltimore MTA. It's cost is $2.50 (but won't cover the full Express fare of this new line).
Unfortunately, you can't buy them in Baltimore. MTA issued Day Passes are $3.00 and will probably not be honored by most connecting services, although Howard Transit might accept them.
Also, if you want to get a Baltimore Bus ride in there too, MTA Route 17 operates between the Patapsco and BWI Light Rail stops - - - something else to consider to get more riding bang for your buck.
since this bus uses bw parkway, why doesn't the b30 stop at arundels mills before BWI?
It will be taking I-95 up, not the Parkway. Its intention isn't to be used as a bus to go to the mall. Its intention is for express service to the airport. You can switch to the MTA 17 at the airport to go to that mall.
ok
Doesn't Annapolis honor MTA passes for it's transit system? I don't know about Howard County, but I do recall reading somehwere that Annapolis Transit honors the MTA passes.
Wow, that is a really intriguing proposition. I'll definitely give that a shot when I'm back home over Thanksgiving -- nice to know there's a cheaper way to get to Balto. than taking the MARC train as I did a couple times last summer.
Local authorities keep kicking around the idea of a high-speed monorail between the two cities -- maybe it'll be built as part of the construction package if the two cities win the 2012 Olympic bid.
I agree with the poster who said WMATA should get some OTR coaches -- it would really be nice, and a boon to tourism, commerce, etc., to see cheap, regular service between the two cities.
Chris
no stops at the new arundel mills mall?? Many buses stop at the mall. it could be a good transit center
Probably would be a good idea. It looks like, from a map that I have, the MTA route 17 goes there, which also stops at BWI airport and the business park. Until there are actual transfers between the two, you can pay two fares to do it.
Is long term parking available at the Greenbelt Metro Station? Then it would be great to take the bus. My alternative is MARC from New Carrollton.
Michael
I think the B30 is an excellent idea (along with the 5A) as I use BWI occasionally and I don't always want to leave my car in BWI's satellite parking.
Wayne
Yeah, I have some friends that take the 5A on occasion because they work in DC and just head up to L'Enfant Plaza to catch it out there. Its great if you don't have a ton of luggage with you. There is also a new 5B that runs from L'Enfant Plaza to Tysons CornerShopping Center via the Rosslyn Station.
I'm not sure if Greenbelt has long term parking. I don't think any stations really do. They say you can keep a car there overnight, but I don't know how strict their policy is. I do know that during the week, the Greenbelt station does get filled up pretty quickly though. It might be something that WMATA would have to consider if people start using that bus a lot for traveling. It would be another revenue source for them.
I hope the B30 is popular. Hopefully, they'll advertise it enough so that people will use it. I think we are doing a good job on here by spreading the news.
I agree. Hopefully WMATA (word of mouth) will be successful in spreading the news of the B30. I think I may take a ride on it soon. I'm guessing that it operates out of Landover with Orion V and VI's. I'd love to ride one of the Flxible Metros up I-95 (or does it use the B/W Pkway?).
Wayne
I saw an ad on WMATA Rohr 1239 on the red line. It had a blue background and said in orange: METRO NOW FLIES TO BWI or something to that effect. On a black background in white text, it described the service (the B30 Express Bus) and the fares.
That's great! I guess they'll probably take out ads in the Post, too, at least I hope.
I'm hoping they will get some of the Flx Metro D's to do this run, but if they use the buses straight out of Landover, it would be the Orion V's and VI's. I believe the route will take it up I-95 to 195, right into the airport, then stopping at International Terminal E,then proceed to the BWI Business Park about 5 minutes away.
In the absence of BusTalk, a news item surfaced in which the very bus that Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat to a white man has been auctioned off. The winning bid was about $491,000 dollars and the Henry Ford Museum was the winner. An extensive search was launched to verify that this GM "old look" being the genuine article.
Sorry I don't have a link, but here is the address to access the item and read the interesting story and view the actual photos.
http://catalog.mastronet.com/catalog_lot_information.cfm?lot=16396
Bill "Newkirk"
Sorry, I erred in the closing bid, which was $427,919
Bill "Newkirk"
[...the Henry Ford Museum was the winner.]
How ironic - Henry Ford was an avowed racist and WASP-supremist, and now his museum owns the most important artifact of the Civil Rights movement.
I can only shake my head in disgrace over this...I didn't realize Henry Ford was so narrow-minded. The museum is nice, though; there are many great exhibits and they also run a trolley bus there.
I wonder if the Rosa Parks bus will be restored to original condition? I hope so, for the sake of both transit and Civil Rights heritage.
-F.
"I wonder if the Rosa Parks bus will be restored to original condition? I hope so, for the sake of both transit and Civil Rights heritage"
If you go back to my original post and copy the address in your address bar and click go, you can read on the story about this bus. They say the bus will someday be restored.
Bill "Newkirk"
Awesome; I look forward to the results!
-Fred
like in detroit michigan ?? will the bus be on display there ?? ( henry ford museum ) ??? in detroit ???
"like in detroit michigan ?? will the bus be on display there ?? ( henry ford museum ) ??? in detroit ??? "
I would assume so. Try this and read this very interesting story. The bus will eventually be restored.
http://catalog.mastronet.com/catalog_lot_information.cfm?lot=16396
Bill "Newkirk"
......did the pictures load when you visited the site ??...... did not for me on netscape .....
"did the pictures load when you visited the site ??......
Yes, I recieved the pictures. Did you scroll down near the end ? That's where they are.
Bill "Newkirk"
yes i did they did not load on my netscape however try again on the big E
yep the images on that page will not load ..........for some unknown STRANGE reason ........ ( oh well ) ......
We were discussing the Rosa Parks bus just this past Sunday. Judging from the pictures seen, the bus is NOT a 1936 bus, it's at least 1947. It has recessed windshelds and ThermoTank ventalation, neither of which was available in 1936.
>>> We were discussing the Rosa Parks bus just this past Sunday. Judging from the pictures seen, the bus is NOT a 1936 bus, it's at least 1947 <<<
The Henry Ford Museum website describes it as being manufactured in 1948. Didn't the other article mention a model number which was 36-xxxx, because this model bus was designed in 1936? It is possible that this design was pre WW II, but production was suspended during the war, so it became common after the war, and is thought of as a post war design.
Tom
It is to my understanding the bus is a 1948 model. Also, it couldn't be a 1936; the Yellow Coach, the Old Look's predecessor, was not even introduced until 1937, while the Old Look came about around 1940 or 41, IIRC. The bus looks very similar to our 1958 GM 3714 that is preserved at our museum currently; with the "later" styling traits seen on that bus, I would assume it to be a postwar version.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth coach and Trolley Museum
The Henry Ford Museum is actually in Greenfield Village in Dearborn, which is near Detroit. I visited in 1988 and it was really neat. Exhibits include the Chrysler Turbine car and the very first Ford Escort, assembled in 1980. Both were hanging from the rafters at the time. It will be great to see a bus or two in there.
Did you know that Ford made transit buses for a brief time? I think they were made in the 1940s but am not sure. Anyone with more info, please addendum if you can.
-F.
SEPTA's predecessor agency in the city of Philadelphia - the Philadelphia Transportation Company - purchased 25 Ford 69B buses in 1946 (fleet #826-850); 55 Ford 79B buses in 1947 (851-905), as well as 4 Ford 49B buses bought second hand from the Neibauer Bus Company (I have no other details on this operator). They were off the PTC roster by 1957.
That's right...I remember the 69B in a conversation. But what were the 49B and 79B? What is the signnificance of the model designations? Anyone know? I think we used to have Ford buses in Roanoke County but am not sure...I'll look it up.
-F.
If I recall correctly, a 69B was simply a 1946 model bus, while a 79B was a 1947 model bus. It's in a motor coach age I have somewhere.
Anyway, the Ford Buses were rather cute, but underpowered buses from the 40's. Baltimore had about 100, but they did not last too long. If you watch the film "Strangers on a Train," you'll see and hear one in the Amusement Park scene.
Sorry for the large file - it was all I had on short notice. The Ford is on the left, the bus on the right is an old ACF Parlor bus converted to transit use during the war.
Neat; I couldn't get the whole photo though. Please help!
-F.
Last week, while bustalk was on hiatus, MCI #2774 was transferred over to Jamaica depot for a couple of days, to see if the depot could house it properly. It was driven through the wash without a hitch. Maintainence looked it over and liked it. However, they noticed that certain areas of the depot where it was driven, the roof of the bus came pretty close to overhead pipes and wires. Also, it could not fit into the front work bays located on South rd. It was finally sent back to Ulmer Park however the foreman says he heard that the plan is to send 21 over to Jamaica depot to replace most if not all of the RTS's (92 & 9300 series). Apparently T/A wants Jamaica to have them, but Jamaica management doesn't want them. But it's nice to know that S.E. Queens finally has a shot at seeing them. I'll keep everybody posted on any further developments on the Queens MCI situation.
BIG AL
Would JAM get buses 2774-2804 if that's the case or you would not know that yet?
Ray
wouldnt it be easier to send the MCI buses over to Queens Villiage instead and transfer the orions to Jamaica?
The reason why T/A wants to send MCI's to both Jamaica & Queens Village is because the MCI's can carry more people. The RTS's on the express runs are too crowded now and apparently the T/A would rather run larger buses than add more runs. Also, an Orion will not fit through the bus wash in Jamaica depot because it is a slightly wider bus.
Also, to answer mta1765's question, there has been no decision yet, as far as I know, as to which number series MCI buses will be sent to S.E. Queens. When Q5Merrick or myself find out, we'll let everybody know.
BIG AL
The MCI did pass most of the clearance tests at JAM and at QV. Bus 2774 did not fit on the lifts at either depot, however, because of its 45' length.
Alterations have to made at both depots (more so at Jamaica), and once those are done, look for MCI's to make their appearance in SE Queens sometime in 2002.
Casey Stengel has no problems with housing MCI's. They could receive them as soon as the TA ok's it.
Mark
In the spirit of David Pirmann's travelogue, I've decided to share a few notes on my recent (October 4-10) trip to Bogota, Colombia.
Bus service in Bogota comes in two very distinct flavors, one quite elaborate, one decidedly not.
- - - - -
First up is the relatively new TransMilenio system, which serves (quite well) as the "subway that will never be built." The heart of the Transmilenio consists of two heavily traveled corridors, Avenida Caracas from north to south and Calle Ochenta (80th Street) from east to west. Each corridor includes exclusive bus lanes (two in each direction at most points) and stations every one-half to one kilometer. Each station has staffed ticket sales, entry and exit turnstiles and high-level platforms with glass doors. The red articulated buses have doors on the LEFT which align with the platform doors. There seem to be at least 100 artics in service, and they tend to be packed - except, of course, for those marked "Fuera de Servicio" ("Out of Service")!
There are a total of nine Transmilenio "corridor" services. The two local routes are designated 1 and 2. Route 1 runs the full length of the Calle 80 corridor (4 or 5 miles) plus six or seven miles of Avenida Caracas, from Portal 80 Station in the west to Tercer Milenio ("3rd Millennium") Station just south of downtown, near the government center. Route 2 runs the full 12-15 mile length of the Avenida Caracas corridor, from Usme Station in the far south to Toberin Station in the north.
In addition to the locals, there are seven "expresses": Routes 10, 20, 30, and 40 follow Route 1, while Routes 50, 60, and 70 follow Route 2. The expresses differ from one another primarily in which stations are bypassed. At some points an express might skip five or six stations, allowing for some very high speeds. All this for only 850 pesos (37 cents)!
At two of the corridor terminals, the big red TransMilenio corridor buses connect with small green TransMilenio feeder buses. The feeder routes at the Portal 80 terminal in the west are numbered 1-1 thru 1-12; those at Usme in the south are 3-1 thru 3-10; no feeders were readily visible at the Toberin terminal in the north, but I imagine they'd have been numbered 2-1 thru 2-x.
- - - - -
In stark contrast to the sleek and modern TransMilenio system is what I call "casual transit" - old 25-to-30-foot smoke-belching clunkers, plying local streets far and wide. Most are grandly mislabeled as "ejecutivos" ("executive service"), but a few are more honestly called "intermedios"; for good measure, throw in the small "colectivo" vans (think Flatbush Avenue). Hand-lettered signs in the windshield give route and destination info. Just wait at any curbside, identify your bus or van, and get on. You may or may not have to walk out into the second or third lane of traffic, and (especially if at least two people are boarding) the bus might actually come to a full stop. Oh, don't forget to pay your 700 to 800 pesos (30.4 to 34.8 cents), plus 50 pesos (2.2 cents) extra after dark. Don't worry about getting the door slammed in your face; bus doors are either absent or kept permanently open. (Anyway, Colombia is such a poor country that no driver will consciously refuse a fare.)
Not surprisingly, the ejecutivo/intermedio model seems to be the norm in Colombia's cities. They even showed up during my side trip to Cartagena, though in far fewer numbers and with a fare of only 500 pesos (21.7 cents).
- - - - -
Suffice it to say that public transportation in Bogota can be quite an adventure - so much so that the friend with whom I stayed tends to use taxis.
IT'S NICE TO BE ON THE BUS ONCE AGAIN!
Ditto!
The SHUTTLE Only went only one way from Van Wyck Blvd to 71 Ave. I live near Union Turnpike and I saw Buses from QV,JAM,and CS. It was mainly 83xx RTS's from QV that where being use. I took the Shuttle. I got on #8377(REPOWERED) and #8388(I THINK. I DON'T REMBER THE LAST # BUT I THINK IT WAS). And the Shuttle Buses where PACKED like HELL! So the way you could avoid this MESS is if you take the Q60 instead of going on the SHUTTLE since Q60 was VERRY EMPTY this weekend.
Does anyone know the total number of runs (and x's) on this shuttle? I heard that there was "a ton of service" out there.
There was a detour today that cause the M5,M7,and M72 to go on a detour. The M5 and M7 N/B's went Left onto 57 St,Right onto 8 Ave and then normal. S/b M5 and M7 went Bear Right onto Columbus Ave,Left onto 57 St,Right onto 5 Ave and the normal. And some M5's where going to 25 St as the last stop.
One of them I got on where only going to 25 St and I need to get to 14 St. So I got off at 42 St to get the M1. And the M1 NEVER SHOW UP! Then after waiting for 30 Minutes. Took the M2 LTD to 14 St.
I forgot this.
The M72 went around Central Park by going down to 57 St.
If anyone needs any info let me know,,i have the whole package of details and reroutes
On Marathon Sunday, all Manhattan buses are subject to extensive delays and service suspensions over parts of the routes.
When did service to Fieldston Road stop? When did the M100/Bx20 split occur?
Probably in the early 90s, cause I do remember having to take the M100 up to a day care center around the H.H. Parkway back in the day.
Actually this happened in the late 80's
The M-100 used to run to either 246th St or 263rd St
Bx-7 ran from 263rd to 207th St.
I can't recall the Bx-20 original route, but it followed the 100 when it got to the HH Pky
[I can't recall the Bx-20 original route, but it followed the 100 when it got to the HH Pky.]
The Bx20 was CREATED out of the old M100.
Hey, welcome back American Pig. Long time, no see! Great to have you back!
Ray
[When did the M100/Bx20 split occur?]
It was in March of 1989.
The old M100 was W-A-Y too long for its own good. Buses kept getting lost at the south end, so dispatchers would turn some short, leaving Riverdale with lousy service.
The solution was to divide the M100 into two routes. The portion below 207th Street remained the M100. The portion above 207th Street became the Bx20.
In addition, the Bx7 was extended south in order to adequately serve the Riverdale-to-Washington-Heights market.
Interestingly enough, the major complaint from Riverdale riders was NOT about the routings. Rather, they were upset because their primary bus service no longer had a Manhattan number!!! They didn't like being reminded that that they were part of the Bronx - the 718 area code and the 104xx zip codes notwithstanding.
I like the NEW LOOK! It's pretty NEAT!
I like New Looks too. Is it a GMC or a Flxible?
I guess as some of you may know, the buses are coming out with a new look too (unfortunately not GMC or Flxible!), mostly white with wrap graphics of the Md State Flag - - - Yellow, Black and Red.
I had pics on my site, but have since updated, so sorry for the lack of a good link.
Adam
LOL! Yeah....a new New Look would be nice. Or a new Metro for that matter. I can only dream...
-F.
Hello everyone; welcome back to BusTalk. So good to be back! Here are some sightings I have observed in the past little while, most of them over the weekend:
At the beginning of the Craig David video "Fill Me In", an LA(?) Flx Metro passes by the barber shop.
In "The Graduate", Dustin Hoffman apprehends Katherine Ross on an AC Transit Fishbowl as "Scarborough Fair" plays. At the end, he carries her off in a Santa Barbara Transit Old Look while "Sounds of Silence" plays. What a classic movie this was. Something for everyone...especially if you like Simon and Garfunkel or buses!
In "Casino", Joe Pesci gripes about making mob meetings at the bus stop. Shortly after, a pre-CAT Las Vegas Transit Fishbowl arrives...silver with red and yellow striping. Neat bus!
Last but not least. In the Alicia Keys video "Fallin'", an old look style bus with silver sides is shown. Not sure if it's a GM or Flx; perhaps someone here could solve the mystery.
Let me know what else you see out there!
-Fred Donaher
"The Coach Potato"
I saw this movie recently on Cable TV....As I had privately e-mailed Fred, it was great to see the SEPTA Flxible New Look. But it was also kind of sad to see that several minutes later in the movie both Ackroyd and Murphy are standing in NYC looking up at the Twin Towers.
I got a few pics of those SEPTA Flx buses at the MSN TransiTALK community. Go to www.communities.msn.com/TheTransiTALKCommunity, for the pictures I took back in the 70`s. Also check out some of the WMATA New looks, and PCC Cars too.
OOH...AWESOME! I'm going there right now. I LOVE New Look Flxibles!
-F.
I can't get into that link; please send it again?
-F.
http://communities.msn.com/TheTransiTALKCommunity
Let's not forget the two Amtrak NEC trains that made cameo appearances. And, if you look very carefully, you'll be able to see a SEPTA RTS in the background early on in the film.
Very nice photos; also, thanks for the RTS info!
-Fred
Don't forget the shot of the el being operated by the Almond Joy cars in the opening sequence. The RTS is in the background of the shot of the Salvation Army Santa in the opening sequence, BTW.
There's anouther TA in LA Aera that have Orion6's. Be on the look out for these!
OK, I've had to shelve this one since Bus/SubTalk have been down lately, but here's my report from Saturday, October 20, when I headed down to NY for MTA-MetroNorth's annual Croton-Harmon Yard open house. It relates both to rail and bus so I'm xposting it.
I got up at 2:30 AM on Saturday morning, showered, and headed to the Providence Greyhound station to catch my 3:30 AM bus to NYC Port Authority. I arrived at about five minutes past three, and an MCI MC-9 with the signboard "BOSTON" was pulling away. A small crowd was congregated outside the closed and locked terminal awaiting the two 3:30 buses to New York: one express, scheduled to arrive at 7:40 AM, and one local, scheduled to arrive at 9:10. It was chilly, but I stood around talking with other passengers-to-be -- many students like myself, some commuting to visit boyfriends for the weekend, some people visiting family, etc. The Providence Greyhound terminal is located in a storefront three doors down from a strip club, so in what was destined to be a very long night, there were people milling around, going in and out, cars driving up, people drinking, selling drugs, etc. Not exactly pleasant.
At 3:35, an MCI G4500 pulled up. It turned out to be the local to NYC: the express was nowhere in sight. Pretty much everyone in the crowd, even those waiting for the express bus, decided to take the bus that was there. But I and about three other people decided to wait for the express bus. The driver of the local bus assured us that the express was late and it should be along within half an hour. I didn't want to get to NYC as late as 9:10, which was when the local would arrive, so I decided to wait for the express, figuring that even if it was late we'd still beat the local.
The express, of course, never came. For three hours I stood in the predawn chill as people at the strip club screamed at each other. Two of my fellow passengers gave up and went home, leaving me and another fellow to keep each other company. Five times I called Greyhound's 800 number from the greasy payphone (I wanted to preserve my cellular battery in case of an emergency in NY), and each time, after navigating through a long voice mail menu, I got singularly rude and unhelpful operators. They were unable to tell me anything except that the bus had not checked into their computer system. I asked them to call the garage and see what was up, or order another bus into supplementary service. They said they had no way or no power to do that. They told me to just wait; they didn't know if the bus would come or not. The fourth guy I talked to was a complete asshole; he acted like I was wasting HIS time while I was standing huddled against a squalid payphone in a frigid wind waiting for a bus that I'd already bought a ticket on that wasn't there. I cussed him out and hung up in disgust. The fifth time I called, at about 5:15 AM, I was able to talk to a supervisor, who said that again he had no way or no power to talk to the garage, but that he was sorry (at least he apologized) and that I should just take the next bus, at 7 AM. Yikes!
Having pretty much given up on getting anywhere on Greyhound, I decided to head around the block to the Bonanza terminal with my newfound friend, and see if they would honor my Greyhound ticket. We waited for their 6 AM bus to New York. At 6 AM, a MCI A3-class bus pulled up -- signed for "BOSTON"! The driver informed me that 6AM Saturday service to New York had been cancelled (despite it still being on their website, which I had checked earlier in the week), and that the next bus would come at 8 or 9. Back to the Greyhound terminal.
At 6 AM the Dunkin Donuts nearby opened up so I could at least grab a breakfast (of sorts) and some coffee. At 6:30 the Greyhound terminal opened up. The employee was the nicest Greyhound person I'd talked to yet -- she listened to me complain quite vocally, then went to her computer and checked on what had happened. Her conclusion, after calling the central office, was that the bus, which originated in NYC and was supposed to turn around at Providence and return to NYC, had continued to Boston. The bus operator was based in Boston, and had apparently made a mistake, but couldn't have returned to NYC anyway because she would have been over-hours. So you guessed it, that MCI MC-9 I saw pulling away at 3:05 AM was the bus that was supposed to take me to New York. I waited another hour and a half -- inside, this time -- for the 8 AM express bus to NYC. (The 7 AM bus was a local -- my friend, having learned his lesson, decided to take that bus just to get on a bus! I decided to wait, however, figuring this express would get me to New York sooner -- and I badly needed to get there, because the open house was from 11 to 3. It turned out to be the right decision.) The 8 AM bus was a little late, arriving at 8:20, which made me a little panicky that it, too, would not show up, but sure enough a gleaming G4500 turned the corner and pulled up out front to a capacity crowd. I've never been so happy to see a bus in my life. I got on and fell asleep instantly, waking only for the bus's one stop (Foxwoods) and briefly along I-95 to note the major Conn. cities, and then as we proceeded through the BX into Manhattan.
Ultimately, I arrived in New York at 12:15 PM . . . all this because I wanted to arrive at 7:40 AM instead of 9:10! I kicked myself over and over again for not taking that local bus at 3:30 . . . I lost three hours of the open house. Oh well.
I'm going to break this story up into three posts, so read on to #2 for coverage of the open house, and #3 for my equally crazy trip home.
Chris
I hear Greyhound is pretty bad. There has also been alot of attacks on the buses lately (fortunately not terrorists). Their cust. service is pretty bad. I've never taken Greyhound myself, but gathering from what I hear they make LI Bus seem like a great operation.
How is LI Bus? I was gonna "do" Long I. this spring, I guess using LIRR and LI Bus. Be interested in hearing any stories you have. And having learned my lesson about Greyhound, I think I'm gonna take Southwest into Islip (at $30 one-way right now, it's pretty competitive).
C
>>> The fourth guy I talked to was a complete asshole; he acted like I was wasting HIS time while I was standing huddled against a squalid payphone in a frigid wind waiting for a bus that I'd already bought a ticket on that wasn't there <<<
Actually, as frustrating as it was for you, you probably were wasting the guy's time on the telephone. As with so much customer service that you reach by telephone, it was probably located somewhere in middle America, taking calls from all across the country, and the operator there had only the same schedules that you can access on the internet, with perhaps an update of cancellations of buses, if the operating divisions bothered to call them in. I have no knowledge whether Greyhound uses them, but some companies use customer service operators who are inmates working in prisons who have absolutely no way to call anywhere from their work stations.
Tom
You're quite right, Tom; you could tell they were in some hellish call center in the middle of nowhere. Like so many contemporary companies, Greyhound has chosen to outsource its telephone service -- much to its detriment. What ticked me off was not so much the lack of information and authority -- that's a problem, and a big one, at the corporate level -- but this guy's discourteous attitude. He's not working the phones as a public service, he's getting paid for it, with revenue coming from riders such as myself. Used to be in this country the customer was always right . . . guess that's no longer so at Greyhound.
C
I am very leary of using Greyhound for the same reasons; customer service has really gone down the toilet. I rode to Michigan in 1999 on "the dog"; everyone along the line was nothing but shi##y and rude when I would ask a simple question about luggage or which bus to transfer over to. I mean, damn, I was just making sure I knew where I was going; that's no reason to treat me like what was floating around in the latrines on the back of their buses!
When they took over Trailways and became a virtual monopoly, they pretty much assumed that since they are somewhat unique in their service they have your money and they can treat you any way they please...at least that's my assumption. In fact, I have always feared flying but was just about to cure that fact in lieu of riding Greyhound and putting up with their ilk, but what happened recently has jaded me from flying once again.
With all that in mind, I might as well just walk from Virginia to Grand Rapids next summer.
Yikes, I don't blame you, Fred. Does Amtrak run out that way? Sometimes if you book way way way in advance on their website you can get a good rate; plus, they have a "rail sale" or "specials" page with bargain-bin destinations.
C
The closest we can get Amtrak from Roanoke is in Lynchburg, an hour away; they had a station here from 1975 to 1977 but low ridership killed it. Though we were known for years as a rail town, transit is unfortunately not a big priority here.
-F.
>>> everyone along the line was nothing but shi##y and rude when I would ask a simple question about luggage or which bus to transfer over to. <<<
Maybe it is a regional thing. My experience with Greyhound in California traveling round trip from Los Angeles to Santa Barbara, and another round trip to San Francisco were both positive experiences as far as the Greyhound personnel were concerned. All were courteous and helpful in spite of large crowds that were in the bus terminals. The buses were clean and ran on time also. The terminal facilities were the one disappointment when compared to what they were forty years ago.
Tom
I'll bet; facilities were always OK when I rode in the 1980s but have lately gone to pot. For example, in 1987 one terminal was thriving and housed several chain restaurants; when I was there in 99 it was one "Bobo Cafe" where the cheap food made me sick, IIRC. Yeech.
And true...maybe it is a regional thing.
-F.
.........someone AGAIN had to "act a fool on the dog" ....the greyhound bus...........AGAIN...........!!!.......................! ......
I arrived at Port Authority at about 12:15, and after consulting my MNR timetables, I dashed to the subway to make it over to Grand Central in time for the 12:50 train, which would arrive at Croton-Harmon at 1:40, leaving me one hour to enjoy the open house! At any rate, I made the MNR train with a few minutes to spare, and enjoyed the fifty-minute ride along the Hudson.
At Croton-Harmon, the party, as it were, was still in full swing. Shuttle service from the station to the yard on the other side of the tracks was provided by Chappaqua Coach, with a fleet of aged Neoplans and some class-C Ford cutaways. There was a long line for the buses -- it took about 10 minutes to get on one. The little Cityliner I rode on wasn't air-conditioned, but we covered the perhaps half-mile trip expeditiously and arrived at the enginehouse.
At this point it was a little after 2 PM. I'd hoped, of course, to do be there for the whole four hours, but as anyone who read my first post knows, I was delayed by ineptitude on Greyhound's part. So I basically had an hour to see the sights (as it turned out, MNR kept things going well past three, but I wanted to be on the 3:30 train back to the city so I could do a few other things before my 9:30 bus back to PVD). As such, I didn't have time to look for other SubTalkers -- I did have the "S" bat-signal on my hand, but I wasn't really looking for others so marked, so I apologize to those I've discussed this with -- I was looking forward to meeting Brighton Express Bob. Sorry guys!
The Open House was great -- lots of cool demos, including the rerailment of a knocked-over boxcar using two Railcranes. I got some great digital photos and will post them when I get chance. Lots of cool equipment too, and all manner of freebies: the nice folks at MNR provided free lunch, which I didn't partake of due to time constraints, but I got a "goodie bag" with MNR rulers, magnets, etc. The guys at MNR went out of their way to put their nicest equipment on the inspection tracks for our delight -- again, I'll post photos when I get a chance. Unfortunately, in my hurry to "see everything" before the clock struck three, I didn't bother to write down any fleet numbers, etc.
Decided to walk back to the station when it was all done -- rather than endure the lines for the bus. Got a snack, boarded the train, and sat up front by the railfan window and the water cooler. Unfortunately, my photos of the track were blurred by the scratched plexiglas doors.
Got back to New York and spent a couple hours revisiting old haunts before my bus back to Providence. I went to the Empire State observatory on a lark (never been up there) and was struck by how much the skyline's changed without the WTC to anchor it. A real shame. I'd intended to go down to Ground Zero and incorporate some "business" with pleasure -- one of my school projects that month was to propose a replacement/redevelopment of the WTC site -- but I'd heard that the area was restricted below Canal St. and decided not to bother. I did check out the UK/NY exhibit at Grand Central -- very nice -- and a few other things.
OK. So that's the open house in a nutshell. My bus back to NYC was another adventure . . . next post. Read on, those that want to . . .
C
Can't you take Amtrak to/from Providence? It would probably be much faster and run more frequently.
Yes, Amtrak's much better -- I considered it but the short-notice fares were three times what the bus fares were ($150 versus $41 for greyhound roundtrip), so I elected to save some money. Next time I'll do that, though; that's definitely teh last time I'm taking Greyhound!
:)
Chris
Saturday evening, October 20. 9:30 PM. After an hour of perusing the Sunday Times at Port Authority, my return bus to Providence has pulled into its gate. Holding my jacket, Discman and CDs, and little Metro-North bag, I board the Greyhound MCI MC-9.
Right away, I know I'm in for quite a ride. On my trip down to New York, the driver had quietly informed riders of Greyhound's new policy of no passengers in the front row of seats (a policy instituted after an early October incident in which a passenger slashed a Greyhound driver's throat in Tennessee, causing the bus to flip and the deaths of six passengers; a later incident in which an armed man attempted to hijack a Greyhound bus, then fled in a private vehicle after he was rebuffed; and the discovery of plastic explosives in the Greyhound bus terminal in Philly the day before my trip. However, as the Nov. 4 incident in Arizona demonstrated, it hasn't been all that effective. But I digress). However, on this bus, the driver yelled at the poor souls who sat there unwittingly and ordered them further back in the bus. You could tell the guy was nervous about the recent incidents. People petered onto the bus. It was sparsely populated, the last bus of the night, with the usual crowd of long-distance travellers, students, and down-and-outs. The last passenger to board the bus had a carry-on bag -- against the new Greyhound policy. The driver asked her to put it in the underbus storage compartment. She refused, screaming at him that she'd paid money for her ticket and she'd keep the bag with her if she damn well pleased. She then forced her way past him and got on the bus, sitting defiantly in the second row. He came onto the bus and explained to her the rationale for the policy, but she yelled back at him and still refused to surrender her bag. Ultimately two Port Authority police officers and the Greyhound floor manager had to board the bus. The manager convinced her to put her bag in the storage compartment. The police officers advised the driver not to let her stay on the bus. But he decided to let her. We pulled out, he turned off the lights; figuring it was over, I put on my CD player and fell asleep in the darkened coach, preparing for a five-hour local ride. I was asleep by the time we passed Lincoln Center.
About an hour into the ride, just past New Rochelle on the interstate, I heard a muffled thumping coming from the rear of the coach. It woke me up. I also smelled a faint smoky aroma. Twenty minutes later, the interior lights went on, and the bus pulled over on the shoulder. Oh, shit, I thought. Engine trouble? What more can go wrong?
The driver got out of his seat and marched to the back of the bus. As it turned out, the woman who had had the scene about her carry on bag had been drinking liquor in the back of the bus, then retired to the onboard lavatory where she was smoking blunts and having sex with another passenger, apparently someone she'd just met on the bus. The driver figured it out when the smoke alarm went off.
To make a long story short, the driver kicked both passengers off the bus in Stamford, Ct. Five transit police officers had to respond to the scene. By this time everyone on the bus just wanted to get home -- ultimately we did push off, and left the passengers in the hands of the police, who looked none to happy to have to babysit two angry passengers who had just been kicked off the last bus of the night.
I'm tired of typing, so I"ll condense the rest of the trip -- uneventful except for some drunken fare-dodgers at Foxwoods, but exceedingly long and boring, with no scenery to speak of save the lights of the Interstate and the bleak transit plazas of Connecticuts cities as we made our stops. The bus stopped in Providence at 2:30 AM, so I got home a bit more than 24 hours after I'd left. (All because I was too cheap to pay for an NYC hotel room.) I got to my room to discover that two drunken friends of my roommate were sleeping on my bed, and after kicking them out and going to bed discovered that someone had thrown up in it -- really the last straw for me! However, I was too tired to care.
Sorry for such a longwinded post, I had to get this out of my system. ;) Thoughts, anyone? Similar experiences?
Chris
I guess it was not meant to be!
No, unfortunately ;)
I considered shelving it and heading home after I'd been standing and shivering for three hours in the dark, but decided to stick it out. As it turned out, I might as well have gone back home and caught up on sleep.
I did enjoy the Open House, though . . . the whole one hour I was there. ;)
C
OUCH! No carryons are allowed on Greyhound?
Seriously, though, I thought I had had some horrendous experiences on Greyhound, but this story wins the prize. I hope you complained (although your compensation isn't that wonderful - a free, nontransferable ticket to ride Greyhound again. I guess it's the only way they can get returning customers).
Several years ago, I had an urgent need to get to RI at the beginning of a February snowstorm, and Greyhound cancelled all service out of New York. Bonanza was still running, so I decided to spend the extra money ($60 RT, compared to $15 or so for Greyhound); the clerk at the ticket counter informed me that Bonanza accepted Greyhound tickets! This allowed me to make good on a promise to myself that I would never ride Greyhound again, after an incident that happened a couple months earlier. For the Christmas rush, Greyhound was short on drivers, and the New York to Providence run was covered by a driver from Chicago who had no idea where he was going. I had fallen asleep not ten minutes after leaving Port Authority; I awoke on what I think was the NJ Turnpike, and the bus was attempting to make a three-point turn after a toll plaza. Several passengers were screaming "We're going to die," the bus behind us, signed for Cleveland, was honking its horn as we inched closer and closer to it, and I just swore I would never ride Greyhound again and went back to sleep. Six hours later, we were in RI.
Unfortunately, when CoachUSA took over Bonanza, the policy on accepting Greyhound tickets changed to "at the driver's discretion," which for the most part meant "give me the difference in cash." By then, I had moved from Manhattan to Queens and could keep a car :).
Next trip to the city, I strongly advise taking Bonanza; it doesn't cost that much more than Greyhound ($32.25 one-way, as opposed to $24, and they offer a 15% student discount without having to join Student Advantage), they're all non-stops, you get a movie, and when I took it last weekend, I took my rather overstuffed briefcase on without a problem (No carryons??!).
Glad you got to enjoy at least some of the open house.
Thanks for the suggestions! I definitely learned my lesson about Greyhound . . . I was going to take Bonanza up until about a week before the trip, when I decided to try to maximize my day by leaving earlier in the morning. But you're right; the fare difference is negligible (although I joined Student Advantage anyway just for the break on Amtrak fares) and it sounds like Bonanza is the better way to go.
Yeah, the new no-carryon policy seems to be a pain in the butt, although I guess how strictly it's observed depends on the driver. I was able to take my stuffed-to-the-gills-with-CDs-and-junk winter coat on the bus as well as a small plastic bag with the remnants of my carryout dinner on the bus, but pretty much anyone with an actual bigger-than-a-purse bag had to stow it.
I meant to file a complaint at the Greyhound counter at Port Authority, but by the end of that day I didn't have the energy to. If I get a moment I guess I'll call them up and do it over the phone, but two weeks have passed now and I'm able to be much more philosophical about it ;) . . . Enjoyed hearing your Greyhound story. New York to Providence via Passaic . . . sounds like the most straightforward routing! ;)
Chris
>>> I meant to file a complaint at the Greyhound counter at Port Authority, but by the end of that day I didn't have the energy to. If I get a moment I guess I'll call them up and do it over the phone <<<
A complaint over the phone is a complete waste of time. To have any hope of being effective, your complaint must be in writing and to the highest level in the company (it will roll downhill to those who can do something about it with more force than a direct letter). If there is any government agency regulating the company, a copy of the letter should be sent there also.
Tom
Can't you take Amtrak?? It's faster and more reliable. Man, Greyhound is so bad it makes LI Bus seem like a luxury operation!
Yeah, unfortunately it's also a whole lot more expensive. But you're right . . . I think next time I'll just bite the bullet and buy a train ticket.
Although . . . can anyone answer this question? Long Islanders? Is there a public-transportation link between the Islip LIRR station and the MacArthur Islip Airport? Southwest Airlines occasionally offers $30 specials to/from Islip from Providence and I'm wondering how feasible it would be to fly to Islip and then take the train into the city. Cheaper than an Amtrak ticket, certainly, I would think . . . it's just that from what I could make out by Mapquest, the train station and airport seem to be about 5 miles apart. Anyone know of a connecting service?
Thanks,
Chris
Suffolk Transit runs buses from LI MacArthur Airport to the Rokonkama LIRR train station.
Awesome! Thanks, Rich, I appreciate the lead! I'll definitely check that out if I decide to go that route. Really great to hear that.
Chris
Just to add, the route that connects MacArthur Airport to the Ronkonkoma LIRR station is the S57.
I have a number of Phoenix Transit & Valley Metro Items for trade.
Standard Edition Bus Books 1986 - 1999
Large Print Special Edition Bus Books 1996-1999 (Rare)
Supplmental Bus Books 1996-1999
Tempe Jump Start Service Guide 1998
Scottsdale Connection Guide 1998 - 1999
Valley Metro Dial A Ride Guide 2000
and Misc. Maps, Guides & Timetables
Will Trade For:
NJ Transit Bus And/or Rail Maps 1998 Or later
NYC Private Bus Timetables/maps (Command, Jamaica, Green Line, Triboro)
Beeline/Westchester Bus Timetables/Maps
Long Beach Bus (LI) Maps/Timetables
Huntington (HART) Bus Maps/Timetables
LIRR Timetables
MNRR Timetables
Please E-mail Me For More Info.
mapman_sp@yahoo.com
In the absence of this forum, I had a couple of questions burning in my head. Here they are:
1. I got a first hand look at the new D4500s that NYBS just received from NYCDOT when I was coming home late last week(it was #1800, on the BxM6 bound for Aleen B. Ryan "Metropolitan" Oval at Grant Cir. dropoff). I understand by reading T. Lo.'s site that there are five of them in NYBS' fleet. How many more are coming?
2. Why is it that our RTS fleet is known as the T80 - 206, when certian transfers in the RIPTA fleet (like #4186) look the same, but are known as the T8J - 204/206? (This is got from RIPTA42s site)
3. Why is it that fleets such as RIPTA and Bee - Line seem to be built stronger and better than fleets in NYCTA/MaBSTOA?
Anyone want to take a shot at these?
2. Why is it that our RTS fleet is known as the T80 - 206, when certian transfers in the RIPTA fleet (like #4186) look the same, but are known as the T8J - 204/206? (This is got from RIPTA42s site)
Many of NYCTs current RTSs are RTS T80 204s.
It's not a New York/Rhode Island thing; it's simply the way RTS model numbers work. Here's a brief explanation:
Let's break the RTS model number down into parts
RTS ABC DEE
RTS = Rapid Transit Series model designation
A = T (transit)
S (suburban)
B = 8 (40 foot; 8 five foot modules)
7 (35 foot; 7 five foot modules)
6 (30 foot; 6 five foot modules)
C = J (Detroit Diesel 6v92TA engine)
H (Detroit Diesel 8v71 engine)
W (Detroit Diesel 6v71 engine)
0 (used for all RTS models after 1981; engine not specified)
D = 2 (102" width)
6 (96" width)
E = 01 (RTS-I; 1977)
03 (RTS-II slantback; 1978)
04 (RTS-II squareback; 1980)
06 (newer revised RTS; 1986)
07 (short wheelbase RTS; 1993 experimental)
08 (original designation for wide front door RTS; 1990)
other lesser-used designations do exist
So...
If we have an RTS T8J 603 (you listening, SEPTA??) That is a 40 x 96 Transit RTS with a 6v92TA and a slantback (when originally delivered.)
A model year 2001 35 x 96 Transit RTS would be a RTS T70 606.
One interesting foible... midway through the 1978 model year, GM switched the position of the second and third parts of the model designation.
The early 1978 RTS's were, say, RTS TH8 203, and after that, they were RTS T8H 203.
Okay, so I would be safe for me to call NYCT buses #9250-9349 model S8O - 206? Or NJTs 35" RTS model T6O - 206?
9250-9349 are techincally sububran buses as defined by the TA, but were built with the rear doors, hence the "Transit" designation by NovaBus. The NJT description is correct, however...
I saw one of the new D4500's last week. Nice.
Does this mean the fishbowls have been retired by now?
(I was actually waiting for a "last chance" ride on a fishbowl. As I gave up and started crossing 3rd, a D4500 pulled up at the light.)
Not as of last Thursday. I saw a NY Bus Service "fishbowl" going up Madison Avenue during the PM rush.
David
Phooey. Then I probably did miss my last chance to ride one and take pictures. Now it's dark already by the time the full fleet is out in the afternoon, and in the morning I have no way of knowing where in the Bronx I should wait. I doubt they'll last through the winter.
Worst case, how long should I have to wait before a fishbowl shows up? How many are running? (This is addressed to anyone who happens to know.)
the only one i can answer with Bee Line is unlike MTA-they DO NOT OPERATE 24 hours, so buses can be stored and be cleaned
2. Why is it that our RTS fleet is known as the T80 - 206, when certian transfers in the RIPTA fleet (like #4186) look the same, but are known as the T8J - 204/206? (This is got from RIPTA42s site)
IIRC, when production of the RTS shifted from GMC to TMC, the model names changed. When the RTS first came out in 1978, the models were numbered as follows:
TW-8201
T=Transit
ENGINE CODE - W=6V71 engine; H=8V71 engine; J=6V92 engine
LENGTH - 8=40 ft bus/8 modules; 7=35 ft bus/7 modules
WIDTH - 2=102" wide; 6=96" wide
01=series
When TMC took over production of the RTS in 1987, the engine code simply changed from the W/H/J to "O". All post-1987 RTS buses at NYCTA are known as the T8O-206.
METROCARD & CARDHOLDERS COLLECTORS CATALOG
This is an 8.5 inch x 11inch 20 page booklet printed by the MTA. They later decided not to distribute it. It contains 20 glossy, color pages of actual size photos of 1997-99 commemorative MetroCards & cardholders. Full color photos of the Subway Series 97, Then and Now, Emigrant, JVC Jazz, Healthy City, Ferry Boat, Yankees 98, Subway Cool, Millennial Journeys, Mets International Week plus 63 Cardholders including the complete Great Subway series. All photos are actual size & full color! A beautiful collectors MUST HAVE. The supply is limited. When they are gone, they are gone.
Send $10.00 ea. plus $2. P & H in check or Money Order
made out to: Mike Makman, To: Prof. Putter, Po Box 755
Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
METROCARD MANIA BOOK - Fun With Used MetroCards!
This beautiful paperback book was published by Price Stern & Sloan. It is now OUT OF PRINT. It includes over 30 different projects using NYC MetroCards. Games, magic tricks, toys. Great for kids from 8 to adult. Autographed by author at buyer¹s request. To order send $7 each + $3.00 (s&h) (outside USA $6.00 s&h) in US money, check or money order made out to: Michael Makman. Send order to: Professor Putter PO Box 755, Planet Station New York , NY 10024-0539
NJ Transit awarded two contracts for new articulated buses as well as for diesel-electric hybrid buses. The contract for the artics will be awarded to Neoplan (hence the "Trevor, are you sitting down" line). The Neoplan contract will be for 85 artics - 50 transit and 35 suburban - with the prototype to be delivered next August and production models to arrive in winter 2003 (I'm guessing they meant 1st Quarter 2003). I seriously thought that either NABI or New Flyer was going to get this contract, but something must have changed NJT's mind (ie. low bid from Neoplan).
NJT also awarded two separate contracts for 4 diesel-electric hybrid cruisers from MCI and 3 hybrid transit buses from ISE Research of San Diego. I don't know if the 3 hybrid transits are demos for a future order or not, nor do I know if this is a new model or a hybrid version of an existing model.
NJT press release
OH SHIT!, I CAN'T HANDLE ALL OF THIS
There is a order for Seven Hybrid Electric buses from MCI, 4 Cruisers & 3 Transits. This could only mean that MCI will probably use the molds of the Flxible METRO for the transit version
Regards,
T.L.J.
Trevor, let's hope so. I really hope so. I would LOVE to see a new Metro come from MIC; they have a good mold there and should use it.
-Fred
My bad...typo. I meant MCI.
-F.
Not as big a surprise as I might have guessed - Neoplan has already built dozens of AN460 suburbans for PAT in Pittsburgh, and Harris County Metro in Houston.
Saaay, isn't Shirley DeLibero now in charge of Harris County Metro? Think she might have made a call to a few old buddies at Penn Plaza East and recommended the AN460?
I just checked the MCI website and saw nothing about their order or the obvious return of the Metro on it.
safe guess would be, 4 brand new D4000s and 3 retrofitted 1994 Flxible Metros or 1996 Nova RTSes.
Note the wording of the press release:
"The seven hybrid electric buses purchased today by the Board of Directors will consist of four cruiser buses for use on intercity routes from MCII and three transit buses for use on local routes."
It says cruiser buses from MCII, but it does NOT say the transit buses are from anyone in particular, or even that they're new.
I just purchased 2 NJT Road Champs buses from the SEPTA Museum Store. These buses are different from the other NJT Road Champ buses because they display a different Route # (1 Penn Station), fleet number (1776) and different message on the side panels( web site address). This was a surprise, since the rumour is that Road Champs don`t make these buses anymore. If you want a picture of this bus, please e-mail me at Mdlbigcat@aol.com
I don't think Road Champs has produced the buses since they were bought out in 1998, but there's apparently a sizable undecorated inventory on hand for such promotions. I myself bought an NJT Road Champs from the NJTransit.com online store last month, this one signed for West Caldwell, which was Road Champs' home back in the good old days. (They're now headquartered in California.)
Chris
Where can I find the undecorated buses? Who do I contact? Also, how do I get to the NJT store? Let me know as I do a lot of customizing on these; thanks!
-Fred
Fred, the NJ Transit online store is located at http://www.njtransit.com/an_transitshop.jsp. SEPTA also sells the Flxibles through their online store at http://www.septa.org/store/. Their prices are quite reasonable for consumers, I think, although I still kick myself for a dumb mistake I made about five years ago: a Toy Liquidators outlet store in Lake George, NY, had a surplus shelf full of these buses for various transit agencies marked down to only $3 a piece, but I didn't buy any at the time. I've returned in subsequent years and found that the buses are long gone. :(
As for buying undecorated buses -- I was only speculating; I'd be surprised if they're available to the public. You could write Road Champs, although they're under different ownership now. Let me know what results you get if you do. Have you attempted any conversions with these models? I'd like to build a thirty-footer Metro-B when I get some free time over the next year; I guess I've got it all figured out except I'll have to fashion a new sloped rear panel after lopping off the Metro-D's straight back. I'm gonna try and model it after the WMATA 51XX B's that I used to know and love . . .
Chris
Chris, I'm the man you need to talk to; I have done TONS of 30-footer conversions...just ask Simon Miller (caine824). E-mail me for more details; StarCityCustoms@aol.com. I'd be happy to build one for you!
-Fred
Thanks Fred, I've seen your work on eBay and admire it! In this case I think I'm going to do it myself just as a hobby diversion, but if I wanted it "done right" I'd certainly go to you! =)
best,
Chris
Thanks Chris; let me know if anyone else is interested in my models. I'm glad you like them!
-Fred
Lotsa luck getting any Flxible Metros...or even an e-mail reply -- out of Road Champs.
They DO NOT make the buses any more. They are sticking with police cars.
And they could care less about replying to e-mails. If you didn't get the Flxible Metros when they were in stores, lotsa luck. Only those who bought them then have any now, and the prices are slowly climbing. I still have a dozen or so myself.....in various paint schemes that were issued by Road Champs.
As for buying undecorated buses, the present Road Champs ownders DID have a website with some text regarding custom runs of their products, or buying undecorated runs. The site (long gone as are the buses...) said that one would have to buy a MINIMUM RUN of 2,600 units of either undecorated or custom-printed buses.
CAT up in Las Vegas is out of the ones they had done....they sold them first to their employees, then the leftovers were for sale to the general public at their downtown bus station. Last weekend I went there and was told that they were sold out completely!!
Yes, thanks for reminding me about the minimum order requirements . . . I'd looked up their website a year or two ago trying to buy some undecorated Crown Vics for a project of mine and was a little surprised that there was no retail/direct outlet for small quantities of unpainted items.
That company doesn't seem to have the same relationship with its customers that it had in the Caldwell era, although I do like their newer products, like the Impala and the '98 Crown Vic, a lot.
Chris
It's not really the same company any more....the Caldwell, NJ folks sold it to an importer out here in Malibu, California.
Yeah...I like their Caprices; the Crown Vics are neat too. Road Champs really carved a niche with those; if only they realized that they hit a stride with us on the Flxible and Eagle models. :(
-F.
Tell me about it. They also used to make Winnebago Superchief motorhomes (I have 3) and International school buses (I have 1). My main complaint about those units and the early Eagles is that they have those dinky "off the shelf" wheels instead of the more detailed prototypical wheels of the Flxis and later Eagles.
Chris
Exactly; the first Eagles had those dinky car wheels but by the time the Flxes rolled around, they used actual bus wheels across the board. By the chrome I assumed they were Alcoas at first but was pleased to find they were regular five-slot steel wheels.
On most of my models, I have done the wheels in white with black holes and it really brings them out; also, I have retrofitted some with some Alcoas that I found and they look really sharp with those.
My fave is the Flx; it sure is a fun model to customize. And it makes a great Grumman too. :)
-Fred
Where'd you find Alcoas in scale? I was wondering about that myself . . . all chromed out but turned out to be the steel wheels. Looks nice anyway, though.
C
Yeah, they do have a nice look; I was out trading and found some "donor" vehicles in HO scale that had these wheels. E-mail me if you are interested in having some installed in a Road Champs Flx; StarCityCustomsaol.com. Thanks!
-Fred
if u are curious, Matchbox came out with a bus recently. it is a MCI model. the various models were coca cola,mcdonalds,animal house,JAWS,I dream of Jeanie and Austin Powers(the one i have). The newest model is Walt Disney World. It says MCI on the bottom right on the model. Not mad, though i wish more windows on it though
Simon, I have see that one; overall it is a nice model despite its "off-the-shelf" Matchbox wheels that look more at home on a Jeep. That, however, can be fixed; I can always "retrofit" the proper wheels....:)
-Fred
Those Matchbox MCI 102EL3 "Renaissance" buses have been out for quite some time. They came out about six months after the prototypes did in 1998!!
They made them in the "Star Cars" series....Austin Powers, I Dream of Jeannie, Animal House, Jaws, and Bewitched. Coaca-Cola and McDonald's also had advertising versions. And Walt Disney World has had two versions so far, 2000 (white) and 2001 (midnight blue).
I've taken a couple and removed the stickers from the Coca-Cola and McDonald's versions to make solid red or yellow buses. I also removed the Animal House printing (using denatured alcohol). Then, to make them look like real otur buses, painted the window area first with high-gloss black....then masked off what would be the glass and sprayed the remainder of the window area with flat black. It looks great! I'm now working on decals for a couple bus companies to complete the customization.
Very nice...I want to see photos of your work. I think the Renaissance is one of the sleekest bus designs since the Grumman 870/Flx Metro. I hope to do a custom Renaissance soon!
-F.
I still have a small handful of the Flxible Metros left in various liveries and offer custom painting; should anyone be interested, let me know while they still last. Thanks!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Wow, SEPTA sells NJT buses too? I'd have to stop by the store to get one, as well as one to replace my very poor edition of the SEPTA Flxible (if one would have ever existed).
Yeah, LOL -- cracks me up that SEPTA sells Flxis in their paint scheme. A rare item, indeed!
For some reason, SEPTA's online store doesn't have any e-commerce capabilities, so you have to print out an order form and mail it in. At NJTransit's store you can use a credit card online, which is convenient. When I got my merchandise from NJT they threw in a free mousepad and a few other little trinkets in the box. Good service.
Chris
I just ordered the NJT bus with the Penn Station destination sign last night, too. I hope I get some little goodies as well. : )
Did it really take 4-6 weeks to receive it? I may as well drive up there and get it myself.
Yeah, and for a while, they were palming them off as the Neoplans. Anyway, at least they look good in the SEPTA scheme, one that is slowly fading away. Soon, you may only find that particular scheme on the N-5 cars (Go route 100!), and the modern historic bus fleet (like the RTS, and 8698. Speaking of the historic fleet, did they restore any of the Volvos?
What does the present scheme look like? Do you have pics?
-F.
I don't personally have pics that I can post, but you can go to Ctrab's SEPTA site (www.angelfire.com/pa4/septabus) and he has pictures of the buses in the new scheme. The easiest way to find examples of the new scheme on the buses is if you look at the pictures of the NABIs (Ikarus Americans) or the Cutaways or El Dorados. Also, there are a lot of Neoplans in the new scheme as well (I hear all the 3000 series neoplans are in the new scheme).
Yep, the price tag on my SEPTA Flxible, purchased in February, 2001, had "Neoplan" printed on it!
8590, the 40' Volvo, has joined the historic fleet; dunno about the artics.
Hey, if the Volvo was numbered 8590, doesn't interfere with the numbering of the 8000 series Neoplans?
It's smack in the middle; the last 1983 Neoplan was 8584, and the first 1984 was 8601.
According to one of the pictures on the TransiTALK MSN site, 7011 has been preserved. However it is not in the original paint, but in the current paint scheme.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the Orion 7 Galiery has been revved up!
Here is the URL of the site...started by Cleanairbus:
Orion7gallery.tripod.com
Enjoy!
(To A&F Boi: I haven't gotten around to putting your Orion 7 photo you gave me...the very first one that you showed us...I will definitely put it on soon...when I get the chance...)
As for the rest of you...when that bus finally debuts, keep in mind my gallery, Orion7gallery.tripod.com
Regards,
Carlton a.k.a. Cleanairbus
The Cleanairbus Transit Page (CTP) Webmaster
Good photos. But if it weren't for the window that slants in, I wouldn't be able to tell if that was an Orion VII or a NF C40LF!
Yeah, well I can tell the difference, certainly. That bus is a C40LF ripoff, a reject, no matter what anyone else says about it...
Carlton
Cleanairbus.tripod.com
Orion7Gallery.tripod.com
hybridbus@aol.com, carlwal@hotmail.com
Do you think that NJT will try to get a fare increase in after a new governor is elected? It's been more than ten years since the last increase, and some in the company think it's high time for an increase. If state subsidies go down because of the economy, and all of the costs of instituting all of the new "improvements" in the service creates a shortfall, who will NJT turn to for more money to keep up these service levels? The Assembly? The Trust Fund?, Or the riders? Also, if they change the fares, will they institute their version of the Metrocard? Inquiring minds want to know.
List any repowered buses you have found during the 3 weeks. Here's what I found:
Queens Village: 8371, 8395
East New York: 8091, 8096
Q46- Orion #612
All 85'GMC RTS's must die.(new sig.)
Off the top of my head:
#8352 #8355 #8356 #8358 #8371 #8372 #8373 #8377 #8386 #8388 #8395
Don't recall if #8383 #8384 or #8385 are repowered. #8372 is not in service yet, but is repowered and behind the depot.
Miss any?
Fresh Pond now has: 8135, 8141, 8170, 8171.
Hey Bill, where did you see the 8141?
BTW, the first FP 80-- might be the 8016, since I haven't seen it for awhile.
I saw 8141 on Grand Ave. about a week ago........8016 was in the back of the depot for awhile (where the M decends to ground level just past FP Road station). 8131 (a training bus) is all the way back there now, presumably that will be going next.
Saw Orion 280 from Casey Stengal behind a maintainance truck, with a hose attached to the front of the bus. They were going west on Roosevelt ave in Flushing. The driver of the bus had a Getty shirt on.
I guess for some reason the bus could not run without whatever the hose was delivering. What a way to get it back to the depot!
John, come on, please! Surely you know what this hose was for..... It was delivering bus oxygen to keep the engine alive until it reached the emergency room at Casy Stengel Depot.
LOL!!! 500 CCs of diesel...STAT! Wonder if they performed meatball surgery on Orions during the Korean War?
-F.
See that John, Joe is still reading your posts, and so am I.
On the serious side what do you folks think is going to happen at LI Bus now that the Dem.s are in ? Will it get better or worse ?
BTW, this Conservative voted for the Dem.s
Did like the Republicans blowing smoke up my ass like nothing had happened.
Mr t__:^)
I think the buses will be improved. The Republicans (esp Gulotta) are responsible for cutting the subsidies, and they created the crisis. Democrat Tom Suozzi (who I voted for)won by a landslide. The Republicans screwed up this county and hopefully the Democrats can fix it. I think LIB should forget about going 100% CNG. Better to spend the money on cheaper diesel buses so service can improve. Mr.Suozzi has been interviewed on several radio stations including WLIR. He mentions improving bus service and looking at light rail ideas. He said he realized that Nassau county has some of the worst traffic in the nation. Hopefully he'll stick to his word and improve transit in Nassau.
The future of Nassau County transportation in general and LI Bus? Only time will tell.....
Maybe some transportation company will establish a new Sea Cliff to Flushing express route to allow faster access to all the various delights, including "starching," that the Oriental community in Flushing has to offer. There are many modern, clean laundromats in Flushing. And, while waiting for your clothes to be cleaned, anyone can partake of the Oriental delights, whatever they may be.....
Add this one to the list of strange things to see:
Spotted this morning at 188 & Hillside, an MCH Orion, # 250, heading north on 188 Street. Now we know QV maintenance is good, but **that** good that it's worth the trip?
I'd love to hear the theories on this one!
QV has had some of the strangest visitors within the last few weeks:
290 519 521 from CS and 4214 4596 from Jamaica. 290 and 521 havwe returned to CS but not 519. She was spotted on the Q1 recently. Perhaps bus 250 has gone over to QV? Was she repowered? If it was going North on 188 St, then I assume it was on the Q75. I highly doubt that an Orion would be on the Q17 however, I have seen it before. 1 time I saw 552 doing extra service on the Q17 going to Jamaica. I assume 250 was another loan. I'll be on the lookout and will ask around as I will be taking the Q46 tonight.
#250 Q75
#552 Q17
When spotted, 250 was not in service, signed as such and of course still sported her MCH logos on it. Personally I thought it was just being moved from one depot to another for maintenance reasons, but it still was an odd sight to see.
I got on a Orion5 #519 from CS on Q43 a Month ago. Why a CS Bus was doing on a QV Route?
QV was borrowing the bus from CS. Also QV has also been borrowing buses 290 and 521 and also JAM's 4214 and 4596. Did bus 519 have QV logos on it?
Ray
All of the lended buses did not have QV logos on them.
#519 Q46
290 521 4214 and 4596 have returned to their original depots.
#6136 is at QV NOW.
TODAY THERE WERE TWO SIGHTINGS OF THE NEW FLYER LOW FLOORS IN CENTER CITY PHILLY. THE FIRST SIGHTING WAS AT 13TH AND WALNUT ST AROUND 1 PM. BUS 5420 WAS ON A TRAINING RUN. THE BUS HAD THE NEW RED (OR ORANGE) TWIN-VISION SIGN. I MANAGED TO GET A PICTURE, BUT IT WILL HAVE TO GET DEVELOPED IN ORDER TO BE POSTED IN MY PHOTO ALBUM ON THE MSN TRANSITALK SITE.
THE SECOND SIGHTING WAS AT CITY HALL AROUND 5PM. HAD NO IDEA WHAT ROUTE IT WAS ON, OR WHETHER IT WAS A TRAINING RUN, OR BY A REMOTE CHANCE, IN REVENUE SERVICE. AS SOON AS I GET MORE PICTURES, I WILL POST THEM.
IS THERE ANY WAY I CAN POST THESE PICTURES ON THIS BOARD? PLEASE ADVISE ME ON THE PROCESS IF ANY. I WOULD APPRECIATE IT.
to post to bustalk you just use standard html markup --
< img src="http://www.yourserver.com/yourimage.jpg" >
(remove the spaces between the brackets and the tag -- i just put them in so that browsers wouldn't think this is an actual tag and try to render it.)
you may want to try a server other than msn communities though; sometimes its login/authentication process interferes with the flawless serving of said images.
chris
The New Flyers are already starting to see some revenue service.
5406 was seen on the 21 at 69 St Terminal at around 1:30pm, however when I saw it, the driver was on his last run and returning to Callowhill. A few minutes later, I saw 5417 running on the 65, but that run was also the last for that driver (yes, it was a different driver). I had heard from a couple of my regular contacts that the Flyers were also seen on the 38 and 43.
I've been IMing you for the past couple of days. What's up? Get back to me.
Ray
I've been IMing you for the past couple of days. What's up? Get back to me at NYCT1762 (AOL Instant messager). My e-mail is RAY1121MTA@aol.com
Ray
Usually when someone doesn't return a IM or a e-mail, it normally states that the are iging you.
Not to start a battle, but that what usually happens!
I don't know........You know.......You know..........
Regards,
Trevor Logan, Junior
Temporary TransiTALK
Trevor, nice photos; LOVE the black and white RTS shot from the side. By golly, that just might have to replace my wallpaper of Jennifer Connelly in the....never mind. Must...resist...temptation...
-F.
Fred, do you have a pic of that toy or model Metro houston bus? What colors does that TA use?
Ray
It's a plain white color-i love the dallas model more.
Thank you Simon and thanks Fred via AOL for your answers.
Ray
Ray, you bet; that's what we're here for!
-Fred
Picture an NJT bus with a red and blue stripe instead of the tri-color and you've got it pegged. Very basic but neat looking.
-F.
Hey Flx:
Thanks man!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Temporary TransiTALK
Or, as in my case, said person doesn't have AOL or IM access... =)
That Could Be It Too!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
:o)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Temporary TransiTALK
B82 Proposed EB Reroute
via East 96 St,Glenwood Road,,Subway Station ,Glenwood Road and East 103 st
The B54 is Terminating at Myrtle and Flatbush.Returning via Right onto Flatbush Av,Right on Tillary St,,In to Park Av,,,Right on Navy St,Left on Myrtle Av
Steve,Please doublecheck the B-82 eastbound reroute. As I grew up in Canarsie and know the area it does not make sense to go from Glenwood Rd,Subway Station and Glenwood Rd. What I think it should say is Glenwood Rd,E.103rd St.
Also were they any chnages in September.
Thank You
i stand corrected,,it should have read,,on Glenwood Road,,stopping at the Train Station ,continuing on Glenwood Road,,Right turn on East 103 st,,left on Flatlands Avenue
If anyone needs the exact details ,,please let me know
M15,M42 and M104,,the M50 and M27,,the M22 and M20,,the B51,,M66
The M21 is also rerouted (or at least it was on October 28, and the bus driver told me it had been like that for about a month). Houston is closed west of Varick, so buses simply don't run west of Varick. I don't know why the TA website is silent on this.
I had this in my records,,also !!!!
I have not been out there,,can you confrm the exact routing Westbound and eastbound,,to and from Varick St
Thanks
Steve
I think westbound runs end at Houston and Varick and eastbound runs begin at Spring and Varick. The driver let me stay on to Spring and Varick but I don't think that was officially a part of the reroute.
East of Varick everything is as usual (AFAIK -- I only rode the route once, from the Bowery to Varick).
I don't know if this is still in effect.
m21 are back to normal washington-spring sts
what was the turnaround routing on the West Side
for varick short turns
what was the turnaround routing on the West Side
for varick short turns
Steve
My father died on 11/6/01 after 2 heart attacks(he had 2 earlier in 1994 and had quaddruple bypass)-i will not be on Bus Talk much the next couple of days. I have been using my dad's email address and will continue to use it. I hopefully will be back soon becasue i caught a lot of bus sighting today in the city and bus questions, but there is so much going on here and i cant ..well..not in the mood to ask them. Hoepfully will be back soon.
Simon Miller
Caine824
email:pingu45@aol.com or vautrin179@aol.com
my condolences
Sorry to hear about it, Simon. You'll be in our thoughts and prayers . . . take care as you cope with this loss.
Regards,
Chris
gradientfill@aol.com
My deepest Condolences.
Mine also
My heart goes out to you and your family. I'm sorry for your loss.
Ray
Condolences goes out to you and your family from the TransiTALK Staff!
Regards,
Trevor Logan, Kevin Barsky, Clayton Parker, David M. Willoughby, Mark Holmes, DaShawn H. Pretlow, Sherman Wong, Jovan Williams, Adam Paul, J. Clark Palicka, Mike Fiorello, Alex Maureau, A. Jones, M. Willis, D. Foster, Adrian Mandese, Arturo "Arthur" Santiago, Tommy Bryceland, Paul Roach, Aubrey A. Cartmen, Tristan Zieley, John Matesic, J. Pappas, Trevor Rajkumar, Sang Won Cho, Neil Greenberg, Mark Valera, Jason M. Davis, David Delgado, Shelli Washington, Khalis Ward, Frankie G. Perez, Fred Donaher, David Alloway, DaQuane Cary, Janay S. Key, Avery T. Carter, Anthony Tafoya
And me Ray Clendenin on the Transitalk staff.
Ray Clendenin
And me Ray Clendenin on the Transitalk staff offers my condolences.
Ray Clendenin
Transitalk
You and your family have my deepest sympathy during this sad time in your family.
Wayne
Simon, my prayers are with you; I lost my father to a heart attack when I was just 17 years old. We are here for you and understand if you do not wich to discuss buses at this time.
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
You and your family have my deepest sympathy.
I'm very sorry to hear about your loss; you have my condolances as well. It's great to see you back on the board so soon.
I am also sorry to hear of your loss you dont know me personally but i send condolenses I know how you feel I lost my Dad 15 years ago to a heart attack. I loved him very much. May God be with your family. Sincerely Artie.
To all bus talk guys,
THANK you for your support. me and the family are doing well. I got to talk about buses cause sitting at home thinking of him gets me frustrated, so i know he would want me to talk about buses.
In terms of Road Champs buses, i knew a place in North White Plains that used to carry them. dont know if they still do.
In old bus sighting, saw #3828 on 5th Avenue and #4014 in Bay Ridge. Looked mighty old to me.
Also, caught sight of a 30-foot NOVABUS in NJ to the funeral. Wish the TA or DOT would get that.
Simon, you bet; we're here for you always.
-Fred
The Store you are referring to is the Collector's Station.
You can get there by taking the Bee Line's Route 6 Bus. Make sure that it is going to Pace-P'ville or Chappaqua as the White Plains bus won't get you there.
The Address is: 650 North Broadway
You Can Call them @ 914-684-6951
Web site is: www.westchestercollect.com
REMEMER: 6 PACE-PLEASANVILLE OR 6 CHAPPAQUA
To get you there!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Temporary TransiTALK
Yesterday, I saw 015131 on the 27 on River Road between Little Falls Parkway and Willard Avenue. It was heading towards Friendship Heights and actually had passengers (rare for the 27!). I also saw some WMATA Metro-Es with the flags, I can't recall the numbers. I saw 9206 (w/ the flag) on River Road at Holton-Arms heading outbound, no clue why. She was signed NOT IN SERVICE. The T2 I see there normally was there as well and was in service.
Also, during the hiatus, Ride-On played an evil Halloween trick on me. On 10/31, they ran 985801 on my 37 run. Since we normally get 005820, I don't bring my camera. It was a nice ride and quite fast through Cabin John Park. The bus has a bilingual stop requested sign (English/French) and other signs in both languages. I also saw one of the 5700 Metro-Ds on the other 37 run this week. I had my camera but I can't photograph buses that are rushing by in the other direction from my own bus. For some reason, 5530 was on the 46, I saw her at Grosvenor going to Medical Center. 5530 normally does the other 37 run.
Great news, everyone; I saw a bus in the opening scenes of "The Tick", a new live-action version based on the cartoon. What is the first thing that our superhero wants to do? Ride a BUS to the city! It looked like it was possibly an early Flxible; it was a red and tan suburban coach, possibly late 30s or 40s vintage. Very sharp coach too! If anyone saw it, let me know if you remember what it was. Oh yes, and the show is pretty good so far..I'm about 10 minutes into it.
Keep those screen buses coming!
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
It wasn't, by any chance, THIS ONE was it?
Peace,
ANDEE
Hmm..I'd have to see the sides; I don't recognize the front at all. Got more pics of that one?
-Fred
So far the response from the driver's have been absolutely positive. Having the fare box @ the first seat position behind the stanchion took a little getting use to, but the passenger response has been nothing but positive raves. According to a operator, there will be a definate order for NY Bus Service. The question of the day is: Will the Other Privates Follow?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Temporary TransiTALK
The more likely question is: How could they not follow?
If NY Bus Service decides to order the Cruisers, how many will they order? Will the arrival of the Cruisers spell the end for the remaining New Looks? Lastly, will the new Cruisers arrive in NY Bus Service's traditional red, white and blue paint scheme or will they retain the generic white scheme currently featured on the test bus?
What is the NY bus service, and what are the cruisers? I'm assuming you aren't talking about NYC.
NY Bus Service is New York Bus Service, which is a express bus operator between the Bronx and Manhattan.
Here is thier web site so you can read up on them:
www.nybus.com
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Total number is unknown. I would suspect that this would either mean the end of the New Look era in NYC Transportation as we know it, OR the beginning of the end of the Classic era as we know it.
Coach #1803 of the recent 6 is carrying NYBS stripes, I would think that the rest would get the stripes and that the actually order will carry a full scheme.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
NY Bus Service should get at least 1/2 of the MCI cruisers. only 10 buses are wheelchair accesible at NY bus sErivce. I would suggest not to operate them at Triboro coach or at Jamaica, as they would be wasted in service. Send them over to Queens Surface to replace the MCI buses they have there.
Were is the F/B. Is it were the first set of seat are on the door side. If this is the case then there is no rape seat for the pasagers.
Robert
How come Queens Limited routes only run during rush hours, and only on weekdays? I think they would be better if they worked like the Flatbush LTD routes, where they run 24/7 and should be the only buses that complete the entire route. It would be better if Queens had local buses run a partial amount of the route, and let LTD run the entire routes. I wish the Q46 LTD was like this, but the way it is now sucks. The same goes for the Q85 and Q5, only LTD buses should go to Green Acres mall(until at least 8:00P.M where its not over-packed). Basically, I think Queens LTD routes should run all day, like the B41, B44, and B46.
All RTS 85'GMC's must die!
I think it's because Brooklyn and Manhattan have more people living in those boroughs. In Queens, it is not as much of a big issue. ALTHOUGH, it would not hurt if they did run the LTD service to 8:00 or 10:00. WAIT....Queens has one route that does that! The Q44 LTD! From 6:00 AM to 10:00 on Weekdays. Check the schedules for the weekends.
Ray
I think it's because Brooklyn and Manhattan have more people living in those boroughs.
2000 Population of New York County, New York: 1,537,195
2000 Population of Queens County, New York: 2,229,379
If you look at the limited service in staten island, for example, they only run rush hours only. in fact, some of the limited only operate pm hours only.
I dont think Queens really has the ridership to have LTD all day on the routes except for the 44. The 44 is somewhat a unique Queens route in that is is not strictly a subway feeder route.
I thought most the LTDs (4,5,27,83) ran the full routes and the locals. Maybe they still don't but i thought the local 4's began at Linden and 208, the 5's at 233 and Merrick, the 83's at Colfax, and the 27's at Springfld-Harding.
[How come Queens Limited routes only run during rush hours, and only on weekdays? I think they would be better if they worked like the Flatbush LTD routes, where they run 24/7 and should be the only buses that complete the entire route. It would be better if Queens had local buses run a partial amount of the route, and let LTD run the entire routes. I wish the Q46 LTD was like this, but the way it is now sucks. The same goes for the Q85 and Q5, only LTD buses should go to Green Acres mall(until at least 8:00P.M where its not over-packed). Basically, I think Queens LTD routes should run all day, like the B41, B44, and B46.]
The one all-day Queens Limited is the Q44 (all trips 6a-10p weekdays, 7a-10p Saturday, 8a-10p Sunday).
The routes with all-day limiteds (e.g. B41, M15, Q44) are very busy all the time, and they're GRID routes, which complement the subway system. Routes such as the Q4 and Q5 are FEEDER routes with very heavy peak-hour, peak-direction ridership and relatively moderate off-peak ridership.
BTW, you should be aware that there AREN'T ANY 24/7 limiteds. Some limiteds may start early and run late, but none run overnight.
Yesterday, I FINALLY managed yo get a ride on the New Flyers. My first ride came on the G from 56th and market to 58th and Baltimore. After waiting forever fot the 34 (didn`t come because it hit a car at the 61st St loop-Fender Bender- idiot cut in front of car) I went back to downtown, and managed to catch another Flyer on the 44. This trip took longer because it was caught in rush-hour traffic. Most of the 45 minute run was in stop-and-go traffic on Market St and the Schuylkill Expressway (What a joke!). But a lot of people commented on the new bus, the lack of steps, and from a couple of people, how they remind them of European buses. I think when more hit the streets, we'll see more reactions from the riding public. Also I think that SEPTA will run them on certain lines, like the Neoplan artics.
The word that I'm getting is that Callowhill will most likely be an all NABI/New Flyer depot once they recieve their 60 low floors. I would suspect that they might keep a few Neos for lines such as the 15, but Callowhill may be sending the low floors on almost all of it's lines. So far, I've heard of them being used on the 21, 31, 38, 40, 42, 43, 44, 65, and G. I also hear rumors that a few ElDorados may be sent from Midvale to Callowhill for use on lines such as the 30, 63, and 76 - which are low ridership lines. I don't see how they're going to get away with a 30-ft bus on the 30, since ridership is fairly decent.
I also took my first two trips on the new low floors yesterday. The first was on a Wissahickon Transfer Center-bound 38 (5421/259 block) from 12/Market to 21/Ben Franklin Pkwy at around 4:20pm; the second was on the 5:10pm 42 to Wycombe (5419/141 block). I got on 5419 at Penn's Landing and rode to 56-Spruce, where I caught the G bus (3190) to Woodland, then the 11 to Darby (forgot the number).
I don't know how the low floor use will break down at Southern, but you'd definitely see them on the 17 and G, and possibly the C, 5, 7, 47, and 57. A couple have even popped up on the 23, which is almost exclusively a Neoplan domain. Last night, NABI 5209 was seen heading north on Germantown near Broad/Erie towards Chestnut Hill; this is the first time I've heard of a NABI on that stretch of Germantown since the presidential volunteerism summit three years ago - but, G-Town Ave was a no parking zone for most of it's length.
Red Arrow will most likely use them on the 104, 110, 113, and 114, but they are also using them on the 124/125 (they're out of place there given the high ridership). If clearance issues are settled, I wouldn't be shocked to see them on the 117/119 (there's a tight spot pulling through the area around Crozer-Chester Medical Center).
Interesting....But I have a few questions.
1.Using them on the 65, isn't that route quite busy? It's busy enough to qualify the use of artics.
2. The Flyers can only seat 40 people. On most of these lines mentioned, the crowds can get pretty bad. Knowing Philadelphians, these idiots won't stand past the rear doors on a standard-floor bus, what makes them want to go past the rear doors on a low-floor bus?
3. On the 124/125, when will the idiots at SEPTA decide to get about 20 Suburban Artics and use them on these lines. If you remember a few years ago, they used the Volvos for half the buses on this line. They usually came in handy around the holidays, particularly the weekends. The traffic on these lines overwhelm any size bus except the artics.
1.Using them on the 65, isn't that route quite busy? It's busy enough to qualify the use of artics.
Yup. Which is why I question the logic of low floors on that line. The reason Callowhill doesn't have artics is because that depot doesn't have the proper lifts that Allegheny and Midvale do. It's possible that when Callowhill's replacement (tentative to be located in the Parkside section of West Philadelphia) that lifts might be installed there, but for now, no artics for the 'Hill. And if you've ever seen the 52, you'll see what I'm getting at.
2. The Flyers can only seat 40 people. On most of these lines mentioned, the crowds can get pretty bad. Knowing Philadelphians, these idiots won't stand past the rear doors on a standard-floor bus, what makes them want to go past the rear doors on a low-floor bus?
Beats the hell out of me...
3. On the 124/125, when will the idiots at SEPTA decide to get about 20 Suburban Artics and use them on these lines. If you remember a few years ago, they used the Volvos for half the buses on this line. They usually came in handy around the holidays, particularly the weekends. The traffic on these lines overwhelm any size bus except the artics.
Probably when they install the proper lifts for an artic at Frontier or Red Arrow. When the Volvos ran for a short time on the 124/125, they were assigned to Frontier. However, the drivers had to travel to Allegheny to get the buses, then dead head to their start point. Plus, around that time, there were some serious health issues raised by operators about the exhaust fumes on the Volvos, so suffice to say, that experiment didn't last too long.
I have to concur with you on the #30 line. It may not haul loads, but I'd say that the ridership is healthy, seemingly heaviest in the Callowhill Depot vicinity.
I tend to like the #30 line particularly - it's a great "transit tourist" route, an easy going romp that will get you from 69th Street to the Portal, assuming you're not in too much of a hurry!
I remember the times when the 30 didn't go to the Terminal. Where exactly did it terminate? Was it that place on lansdown avenue with that little turnaround thing and completely useless cuilding?
I believe it was. The loop in question is on Lansdowne Av north of Haverford Av. The building you're referring to was used by operators as a restroom - this is a common feature at a lot of terminals (Wissahickon, 33-Dauphin, etc.).
Is that used for anything anymore?
Yep, Route 15 bus drivers go to the Haverford-Lansdowne loop for layovers.
Some interesting sightings from the past couple of weeks:
10/23: NYCT '81 Reman #7524 on a flatbed on the LIE, apparently headed for Nassau County (Photo)
11/1: A LI Bus Gillig on 34 St in Manhattan, destination sign set to "SPECIAL," and a cardboard sign in the window reading "STATE POLICE ONLY"
and, Fred especially take note, I came across a bus collector's stash in Broad Channel, including an early Flx New Look (#8100, yellow & white livery with an American flag) and a blue Flxible parlor coach that transported sports teams for a BSC. Anyone know about these? A neighbor asked if I was interested in buying and pointed out the owner's house, but I'm not one to go knocking on doors. I'll have photos posted in the near future.
The LI Bus you saw is now property of the State Police, that is now a official State Police Bus!
TransiTALK Member, DaShawn Pretlow, got the info and photo! TransiTALK Member, M. Willis has a pic of the Yellow and White Flxible also!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
NYCT 7524 was probably heading to Atlantic Diesel in Bohemia,LI.
OOOH!!! I've GOT to see pics of those. Please send ASAP!
-Fred
The Gillig seen in Manhattan is not owned by the New York State Police. LI Bus provides, when needed, buses for the funerals of deceased police and fire personnel. This past Monday, led by a full police escort from Long island, I had the honor of driving our latest Orion, #358, for the family of one of these brave heroes, Fireman John Boyle (Engine 33), who, along with Fireman David Arce (Engine 9), were the recipients of a beautiful memorial service held at St. Patrick's Cathedral. Over 5,000 police and fire personnel from a tremendous number of states attended to pay their respects. We all owe each of those who have lost their lives in the World Center Tragedy a tremendous amount of deep gratitude, love and respect.
Out of respect to the decreased men and their families, please do not ask any further questions on this matter. This posting was made to correct an erroneous postings and to express my personal feelings and thanks to these brave men and their families.
It makes me proud to see LI Bus also honors the victims of the horrible WTC disaster. Even though tomorrow will be 2 months since the WTC disaster, I was down in Chinatown today and the "smell" and everything it means is still very much there.
Even here on the north shore, Roslyn is mourning several NYC firefighters, who volunteered in the Roslyn fire department.
GOD BLESS AMERICA
WE STAND UNITED
Pardon me for making an observation!
I commend LI Bus, as well as NYCT and the DOT franchisees, for making their equipment available.
It's been common practice to call intercity coaches that are used as express buses or suburbans as "cruisers". Here is the history behind the use of that name, which started in New Jersey.
In 1954, GM developed the Scenicruiser (model PD4501) for Greyhound. From that point until 1972, almost all Greyhound buses were named Scenicruisers. The original Scenics became the "Super Scenicruiser". The PD4104, PD4106, MC-5, and MC-5A became Scenicruisers, and the MC-7 was named the "Super 7 Scenicruiser". The only exception was the MC-6, named "Supercruiser", being the only 102-inch coach of its time.
With the development of the MC-8 in 1973 and the red-white-and-blue paint scheme, Greyhound began the name "Americruiser", also used on the MC-9 (most named "Americruiser 2"), the 96A3, and 102A3.
When NJ Transit Executive Diorector Jerry Premo signed the order with MCI for 700 MC-9s in 1982, he decided to make a play on the Americruiser name, and dubbed the NJT version "Jersey Cruiser" in homage to their Greyhound sisters, even though that name didn't actually appear on the sides of the buses as they do on Greyhounds.
The 1987 MCI order was indeed dubbed "Jersey Cruiser 2", and the shortened name stuck as a way to differentiate the MCIs (and latewr the Eagles) from the "regular" suburbans (GM and Flx New Looks, Flx Metro, Volvo B10M artics).
So, since the mid 80s, this equipment type has been referred to as "cruiser", and most of the bus fans in this area have caught on to that name. Interestingly, MCI will only use the name "cruiser" when referring to the NJT MCIs: the two MC-9 orders, the CNG 102D3s, and the current D-series order. When MCI talks about the NYCT (or any other) orders, they are referred to as "commuter coaches".
Is the Orion VII that arrived in New York several weeks back in service yet? I recollect that, before the Bus Talk hiatus, there was speculation that it would be undergoing a 30-day test exclusively on the Bx-28 route. Has this come to fruition? Thanks in advance for your assistance here.
Not as of yet; still some technical issues to iron out.
Here`s a crazy idea, let's see what SEPTA lines could qualify as "Limited Stop" lines like in NYC. They could be all-day or rush-hour routes. Let`s use our imagination! Lord knows, the nimbobs at SEPTA could use some. Just post them on the board and we'll compare notes. AFter I see a few of them, then I'll post my list of lines that could use the "Limited" treatment. So get cracking!
Hmm, Now this sounds like a fun post!
Lessee here, and I don't even have my SEPTA map handy!
Well, we already have a "C" Limited which is called the Broad Street Subway, and something of a #5 Limited, termed the Market Frankford Elevated.
For the arterials, it'd be neat to see Limiteds on the 17 and 47 on the South side of town, the 23 and 33 on the North Side, and the 42 line on the West. Once clearing Center City, they could stop only at the transfer points. I can see two practical problems with this though, both possibly able to be overcome. The narrow thorofares on some lines could make a Limited pretty challenging (no room to pass a Local), while SEPTA may feel that anyone having to take 2 lines to Center City is served just fine by using the crosstowns to the Rail lines.
That aside, it would be neat to see some supplemental limiteds in Philly, aside from the 1 and 8 which are in essence dedicated limiteds. The 52 and the 60 Crosstowns might also justify Limited Service as well, but I can't see it practically working on the rail lines, nor the trackless lines, as it would require some exact scheduling to avoid bunching.
To me, it seems the concept of Limiteds is on the outs though. We used to have over a dozen lines in Baltimore with Limited Stop service in peak hours - This has been cut to only 3, consisting of the 8, 20, and 31 lines. Add a ridership that likes to ignore signs, and they can be hell to drive, you can call "NEXT STOP - ALLEGHENY AVENUE" loud as you want, someone will get indignant when you won't drop them off at Ontario Street!
I have a few candidates for "Limiteds";
1.23 Gtn Ave-This long line from Chestnut Hill to South Philly could use a "Limited" like the Q44
2.58 Bustleton Ave-Its either "The High School Hell" local or the "God`s Waiting Room " local. A limited stop routing would shorten the ride to Neshaminy Mall.
Here are my ideas. Got any more?
The 104/West Chester Pike comes to mind. If there was ever a suburban route that could use a limited stop service, it's the 104.
During peak hours, the 104 locals could operate between 69 St Terminal and Newtown Square. 104 LIMITEDS to West Chester could stop at the callout points between 69 St and Newtown Square (ie. State Rd, Lynn Blvd, Twp Line Rd, Darby Rd/Lansdowne Av, Eagle Rd, Manoa Rd, Glendale Rd, Mercy Community Hospital, New Ardmore Av, Sproul Rd, Media Line Rd, and Newtown Street Rd), then run local from Newtown Square to West Chester. (I have all the stop announcements seemingly committed to memory; that's how well I know the 104.)
In the City, the 14 could see some limited service between Bustleton and Southampton, then local to Bensalem Twp, Langhorne, and Middletown Twp (Bucks).
Another possible candidate for limiteds would be the 65. Along City Avenue, selected 65 trips could stop at Overbrook Rail Station, Cardinal Rd, 54 St, and a few other streets which slip my mind right now.
That's all that I can think of.
What about the 20, its a awful long local ride between Franklin Mills and Frankford Terminal.
Limited service could also include some other form of the 124/125, that would skip Wissahickon and all of the other local routings and go directly to the mall. What ever happened to the idea of getting MCI's on this line anyway?
Here's another idea, how about a rush hour limited bus from Delaware Co. to Phila. it could use one of those off avenues like Greenway or something. The only other alternatives are Subway Surface or the El now, i think more commuters may be more apt to get out of their cars into a motorcoach into center city instead of the trolley or trains
Here's another idea, how about a rush hour limited bus from Delaware Co. to Phila. it could use one of those off avenues like Greenway or something. The only other alternatives are Subway Surface or the El now, i think more commuters may be more apt to get out of their cars into a motorcoach into center city instead of the trolley or trains
SEPTA would most likely not operate limited bus service from Delaware County to Center City since that would duplicate a few Regional Rail Lines (R2 Marcus Hook, R3 Elwyn, and R5 Paoli/Thorndale). In the long term, however, some limited express service could work in the western reaches of the county, but SEPTA's thinking has been not to offer one-seat rides into Center City from most outlying suburbs, but rather to force a transfer at either end of the El or Broad Street Subway. To an extent, this is a holdover from the old days of PRT/PTC and Red Arrow.
http://news1.iwon.com/article/id/48873|oddlyenough|11-09-2001::08:26|reuters.html
Toddler Sneaks Onto Bus, Tours Town by Himself
November 9, 2001 8:18 am EST
HONG KONG (Reuters) - A Hong Kong toddler who just loves watching buses got the ride of his life after sneaking onto a double-decker which zipped him on an odyssey half way across town.
The boy, barely 21 months old, slipped away from his brother on Thursday while they were playing and was only discovered on the bus about an hour later, police told Reuters on Friday. It was not clear why the driver or other passengers didn't notice him sooner.
When finally reunited with his anxious mom and dad, he excitedly repeated: "Buses! I like buses."
-Hank
LMAO!!!!
That is too funny!
First off, is that suppose to be some sick fucking joke!
Cool, post the fucking article about the kid on the bus in Hong Fucking Kong, but Leave my fucking name out of your fucking jokes.....
GOT ME!
T.L.J.
Chill the fuck out! He's just playing . . . LOL!
C
There is no chilling, I've done about had it with his jokes, when it was going on a year ago, it was cool, two years ago it was cool!
I'm 21 now, and to be perfectly honest with you, something I just don't find amusing like when I was a teen. I'm sick of him. PERIOD!
And if I have to continually deal with his antics, There is going to be a stronger non-violent course of action other than some words!
Regards,
Trevor
Dude, take your Ritalin! It was a simple joke! I'm simply looking at a humourous story about a child on a bus (specifically the last line) and thinking about your enthusiasm (Your use of an ! when you talk about new buses) when you post about buses. I didn't see (and still don't see) what the 'sick' part is.
-Hank
But even still why involve my name, you could've just placed it as a "article" about the kid, I'm trying not to be involved in jokes and so forth anymore, and you would have to see where I am coming from.
Sorry for the outburst, but you also caught me on a REAL REAL REAL REAL Bad day!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I used your name because of your enthusiasm. The kid's expression after the incident made me think of the way you speak of buses, albiet on much simpler terms. (I suppose you would have said "(Specific model of bus)! I like (specific model of bus with engine make and transmission)!")
-Hank :)
LOL...I don't know about Trevor, but chances are I would!
-F.
Don't play with me!
LOL...what a cute story! Kinda makes me wonder if that isn't MY kid..
:)-
f..
I don't think that's possible ;-)
LOL
But it was a cute story! (wishing someone would steal MY bus...)
What bus do you have? If it's a Flxible, I'll take a hot-wiring course at the local community college right away..LOL!
-Fred
LOL! Nope.. it's an RTS!!! Probably one of those horrid Nova things, at that. Please.... TAKE IT! No hot-wiring required ;-)
By "horrid", do you mean the late-model WFD? Let me know; thanks!
-F.
By 'horrid', I mean these 9300/4900 pieces of junk. Even the 'repowered' 8000's are garbage. I'll take an original 8000 any day :-)
I agree; I'll take an original 6v92 or 6v71 over that new stuff any day. Amen!
-F.
*On another note, I do like the Cummins ISL. Those are great newer bus engines and a marked improvement over the Series 50. It reminds me of the 6v92 to a degree; that's why I like it so much. :)
LOL!
I don't know the difference between different engines. I just drive 'em. If they're QUIET, don't VIBRATE every organ in my body, and aren't goverened below 45MPH, I like it....
I agree. I LOVE older engines for their smoothness and sounds; MUCH better than many newer setups. Amen.
-F.
I would take the newer engines any day, over the ones that the GMC's and non-repowered TMC's have.
If buses were to be repowered I would take the Cummins ISL and a Voith tranny any day. It is FAR superior to the Series 50 in both smoothness and power....and it's a six-cylinder as opposed to a four!
I don't have any knowledge about the Series 60 but according to Trevor, they are in the last five Flx Metros at Baltimore MTA and are even better than the ISL (nee L-10).
I grew up on Detroit Diesel 71 and 92-Series and always loved their sound and smoothness, hence my liking towards them. It's all in what you're used to. My big shock with the Series 50 was that early versions (i.e. the ones in our 94 Gilligs), were loud, clanky, and sounded like lawnmowers. What's more, I am afraid to take a girl riding on one; after all of that vibrating, she may not NEED a man afterwards...LOL! However, I rode a 97 Gillig at GRATA (now The Rapid) in Grand Rapids, MI last summer and it seemed pretty quiet and smooth.
Maybe it just took a few years to refine the newer powerplants? Who knows. They get better all the time.
I think the repowered 8000s are absolutely horrible. Most of them the top speed is below 50 mph. I had 8394 recently on the Q46 and her top speed was 47 mph. 8355 has a top speed of 44mph. I have ridden on 8386 but I'm not sure about her top speed. If a bus is on a Pkwy or Expwy, I feel that its top speed should be at or around 55 mph. 9365-top speed 54 mph. A bus going below 40 mph is a traffic hazard-minimum speed is 40 mph and having a bus going 36-39 mph-it could get a violation for going too slow and not keeping with the flow of traffic.
I remember getting 4499 with a top speed of 67 mph. Any bus that can move will be finw with me.
#4499 Q46
#9365 Q88
I think the repowered 8000s are absolutely horrible. Most of them the top speed is below 50 mph. I had 8394 recently on the Q46 and her top speed was 47 mph. 8355 has a top speed of 44mph. I have ridden on 8386 but I'm not sure about her top speed. If a bus is on a Pkwy or Expwy, I feel that its top speed should be at or around 55 mph. 9365-top speed 54 mph. A bus going below 40 mph is a traffic hazard-minimum speed is 40 mph and having a bus going 36-39 mph-it could get a violation for going too slow and not keeping with the flow of traffic.
I remember getting 4499 with a top speed of 67 mph. Any bus that can move will be fine with me.
#4499 Q46
#9365 Q88
I used to ride the 8293-8314 (at the time) out of Yukon and 8315-8339 out of Castleton going to high school, and in long stretches along Hylan Blvd - down in Tottenville - they were going as fast as 55 once, and even some of the 8300s were used as fill ins for expresses once - like 8307. But some of the older ones (the 1200s,1300s,1400s,1600s,1700s,1800s,2200s-2700s) that Yukon had back in the mid 1990s did well and fast also - it just depended on the bus you got.
I don't about about, I rode the (A) Train Shuttle bus today from B86th to Rockaway Bl and I was on repowered 8386 from QV and she cooked, achieved a speed of 60 on the Cross Bay, and maintained it climbing the uphill part, some of those are not to be reconded with!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Next time I get #8386, I'll see what she does on the open GCP. Still, the repowered engine vibrates too much for my taste. Any bus will keep up at highway speeds (well almost- those that aren't goverened at 39MPH, and there are MANY), but I much prefer a PRE modified or pre-repowered 8000. As slow as she is, 8393 is a quiet and comfortable ride (albeit at 18 MPH top-speed standing load) LOL
LOL, 18 MPH, WHAT KINDA CRAP IS THAT..........My job would be the bust the govenor/DDEC speed control on that puppy.
Don't get me wrong I like my 6V92 as much as the next man, but I was impressed today! Actually I may get shot even saying this, but I'm a bigger Cummins Fan than Detroit Deisel, something about the L10 (ISL) and the M11 (ISM) that sends me up the wall!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
"LOL, 18 MPH, WHAT KINDA CRAP IS THAT"
And the people want to know why buses are so slow.... go figure.
"My job would be the bust the govenor/DDEC speed control on that puppy."
And how might one accomplish such a feat????
¿
--
Don't let the bus shift itself, TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR BUS!
You do the shifting..........
1) When the bus takes of and does the first shift, through the gearbox back into 1
2) After say about 10 seconds, shift the gearbox into 2nd gear, let the bus scream before you turn it back into D.
By Then if your bus is moving, you got some more speed out of it, if not, toss that bitch back into 2nd let it scream some more and back into D and see if that works!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
There ya go...it's like driving a bus with an AutoStick...LOL! What a technique...never tried that.
-F.
Sorry Trevor, this will only work in the movies, not in real life. Have you ever driven a manual stick shift? Throwing the bus back into the lower gear after it shifts will only slow the bus back down. This is called "engine braking". I and many other people do this with manual transmissions to save the wear and tear on the brake shoes. This is also the way the retarder system works on the newer buses.
While you may get a little more acceleration if you keep the pedal to the metal in the lower gear, each gear is only good for a maximum speed. For instance, gear 1 is good up to 20 mph. If you let the bus shift into gear 2 and, say climb up to 25mph, then shift the bus back to gear 1 (if I understand you right), the speed of the bus will drop back to 20 mph, even with the pedal still at the metal. You also run a serious risk of damaging both the engine and transmission.
BIG AL
No, it works, believe me, its all in the timing, of course if you let the bus speed up and then throw it back, it will die down in speed, HOWEVER if you do it right the first time, you should NOT have this problem!
You did misunderstand, again:
1) While taking off in "D", after you hear the first shift (WHICH IS NOT THE SHIFT INTO SECOND GEAR YET), this should be around 12 MPH, shift into 1st, let it continue to up in speed, you should get between 20-25 MPH out of this, then throw it into 2nd. You will feel a slight jerk, but don't worry.
2) If you see your bus has gained speed, after the kick into second, throw it into "D", if not let the bus gain speed in 2nd, wait for the scream, then toss it into 3rd. By this point you should be hussling right along!
Most of the speed gain will be your manual shifts between 1st and 2nd! Try it, IT WORKS!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
It doesn't work.
What I do is start off in 2nd. Then i put the bus back into first at 20mph. When the speed reaches around 30mph i put it back in 2nd. The only time i use Drive is when i need to go over 40mph. This works best for me. This technique is taught to New York Bus Service Drivers. It does have a lot to do with timing, if you dont shift at the right time you will make the ride very unpleasant for your passengers. When I exit off the highway i shift into second around 45mph which slows the bus faster.
Peace,
Kevin
There must be a difference in govorner installation between different agencies. Those methods listed above will not work on a NYCT bus.
When you say "start in second", do you mean literally start the bus from second gear? Impossible here. The bus will only start in neutral. If you're referring to starting in neutral, shifting to second, cruising until 20mph, then back to first, that's understood, however, as Al mentioned, each converter lockup governs actual speed, therefore we (or I) cannot surpas 20mph from second gear. Downshifting on the highway either does nothing, or jerks the bus as the retarder would, depending upon the speed at the time.
Backing down only slows the bus down even more. There is no way to 'jump' the governer (that I've noticed).
Difference in governor installation was the same exact thing I was thinking. After over 7 years of driving NYCT buses, I've tried different methods of getting better acceleration from these buses, including fiddling around with the gear shifts. It just won't work. However, there is one method that helps a little. Stepping on the accelerator to bring up the engine's RPM's while the bus is in gear, with the I.C.C. brake on, then releasing the I.C.C. while still on the accelerator gives the bus a quicker jump off then just a regular start off with low RPM's. That is the only way I was able to get a LITTLE quicker pull off. However, Trevor's way definitely will not work on a NYCT bus because of the governor and convertor lock ups.
Sorry Trevor.
I don't fully understand either what Kevin meant about starting in second. Was he referring to a manual transmission? If you start a NYCT bus off in 2nd, you are still running through 1st gear first. Once you acheive maximum RPM's for 2nd gear, that's all the speed you're getting out of that baby.
BIG AL
You have to be very careful when doing "neutral drops" with a NYCT bus! (Not really neutral drops, but the equivalent). If there are standees, or elderly, you could easily cause an incident. I'm very leary of attempting that, but I agree it's just about the only way to gain any sort of hard jump with these buses.
Actually, I never do it while I have any customers on the bus, since as you said, it can cause an on board accident. Also, you never know who's watching what you are doing. The only time I would do it would be if I had a very slow bus and I am late making a dead head trip, usually when I'm about to swing.
BIG AL
I don't fully understand either what Kevin meant about starting in second. Was he referring to a manual transmission?
What i meant was i drive the bus with the gear box in 2nd (#2) instead of Drive (D) My friend who works for MABSTOA uses the same technique i mentioned in my previous post so it does work on NYCT buses. I will have to record the sounds of the engine to get you guys to fully understand what we do.
Trust me it works and i dont want to argue about the situation.
Peace,
Kevin
I've started the bus off in 2nd gear also, and have never noticed any difference in speed what's so ever. The bus is still starting off in first gear and just not going past second. Once the RPM's max out in second gear, the sound of the engine will be much louder, which may be giving you the false impression that the bus is moving faster. The reason some people drive in inclement weather in 2nd gear is because the bus slows down better from 2nd gear, thus the engine braking I was talking about which helps prevent a skid. I don't want to argue either about it and you can make the recordings which I will be glad to listen to, but with the experience I have operating these buses I will not be convinced that the acceleration was any different.
BIG AL
ditto
The only time you gain more speed is when you throw it back into first when the bus is going approximately 20mph. The next time you are driving throw the bus in first around 20 mph. If this doesnt help you then the problem is that we are driving different equipment.
Peace,
Kevin
I LOVE the ISL..they remind me a lot of 6v92s. Great engines!
-Fred
'''''and the board has only been re-opened for a week!
No doubt; it's bad enough we have war abroad without starting it in our own back yard. Oh well, I'm staying out of this one. Peace!
-F.
...and it's the same person involved that is ALWAYS involved. No names mentioned. (I'm sure a few people have guilty consciences and will start slinging it this way now....)
For all you East New York riders here, can you tell me what happened to this bus, how it die so early. Did it suffer the same fate as the 4662(which crashed in Bay Ridge last year)?
BTW, the 8340 and 8346 are now repowered, and are running on ENY routes for those of you who don't know.
B13- RTS Nova #5059
-
All RTS 85'GMC's must die!
8075 was another one which died early. I think both of them didn't last for long. I think I heard that they burnt up.
I recently saw #4662 last week (11/2/01)-he was sitting in Jackie Gleason Depot outside. he sure is damaged.
That is the bus which skidded in the rain a few Thanksgivings ago in which the driver was thrown out of the seat and unfortunately perished.
The tragedy will sadly be coming up on its second anniversary in a few days.
The bus was noticed on the recent D-Types to the Docks trip on 8/26.
It is parked in the back of the depot adjacent to the subway tracks. I presume that it hasn't yet been fixed or scrapped yet since the lawyers are not done with it yet.
The bus did not skid. The bus was hit by a speeding Fire Truck under the Expessway. There is a blind turn for people on Third Ave. The sound of the Engin also bonce around form all direction, so it is had to tell were it is coming from. I know the driver by face since I worked at Jackie Gleason, I spook to hit a few times while I was there.
Robert
The bus that skidded in the rain on Thanksgiving Day 1999(?) was JAMs 4588 on 120th Avenue near Springfield Blvd. It slid into a tree and then bounced off and came to rest against a brick house. There were two accidents that day. The other in Brooklyn, involving 4662, is where the B/O perished.
Bus 4588 since was scrapped, but 4662 will be around for a while.
Mark
I remember that accident on bus 4588. It was on the news that day.
Ray
I remember seeing that piece of crap 4515 on the news. This bus got destroyed, in Manhattan. I'm glad it got scrapped and wasn't repaired.
But I'm glad that the 8485 survived, it only had minor damage when it crashed about 9 or 10 months ago.
Actually, 4588 did not skid in the rain. It wasn't raining. I was at the accident scene right after it happened. The operator passed out after pulling out of a stop. He was overcome by carbon monoxide seeping into the bus. The bus crashed into a large tree, nearly knocking it over, but never came near the house. Actually, part of the tree hit the house instead. I believe tests performed on the bus showed a high level of carbon monoxide inside. I don't remember what happened the operator, but yes, the front of the bus was demolished. The chassis was bent all the way to the middle of the bus. The bus was scrapped and I would question if it would ever have been fixed even if it was a new bus, considering the high level of damage the bus sustained. The operator's compartment was totally crushed and I was suprised the operator even survived.
BIG AL
These 2, short Triboro routes should be combined into 1 normal sized route. These routes aren't used that much, if they combine it, it will likely have better service, plus people who come off the Q18 or Q58 can have better access to LaGuardia Airport. Another good combination would be the Q45 and Q19B. In my opinion, I don't think the Q45 does much by itself. Tell me if this would be better.
-
All RTS 85'GMC's must die!
No, leave the Q45 alone. Short feeder lines aren't such a bad thing.
One of the things I liked about visiting Washington was the way I'd see buses feeding the Metro at different stops along some lines, unlike NYC where buses meander across several subway lines, serving communities en route to destinations that lost relevance years ago. The 74 St bus terminal reminds me of Washington's Metro like that.
I used to take the Q45 each day, I still ride it two days a week, and I see the bus crowded leaving 74th and packed after 69th/Roosevelt. The advantage of your plan is extended transfer opportunities for riders of the Q18 or Q58 going to LaGuardia, but if I had to ride the bus like that every day I'd be looking for a new car or a new job. The disadvantage is that the longer the route, the more prone to delays the line is. The Q18 is a perfect example of this - it dies on 30th Ave. Going home, if I had a choice of the Q18 @ 61/Woodside or the Q45 @ 74/Roosevelt, I'd go with the Q45, even though I had a longer walk home. I can't remember the Q45 not leaving 74 St on time.
Read
http://community-1.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT/
New Jersey Routes
Westchester County and Putnam
NYC Destination Sign Readings---CURRENT
CT Transit Routes
NYC 911 Stuff
Most of the time when I take the 38, traffic on Montrose Road between 270 and 355 is horrendous. If it isn't that long a line, the line for 355 starts between Jefferson Street and "Old" Old Georgetown Road. Yesterday, 5371 was on time up until we joined the line of cars waiting to cross Rockville Pike. We got to White Flint 20 minutes later. My suggestion is as follows.
The current routing from Montrose and 270 is
R on Rockville Pike
(White Flint)
L on Parklawn
Continues to Wheaton
My suggestion is
R on Jefferson Street
Stay straight when it becomes Executive Boulevard
Then either
L on Old Georgetown
R on Rockville
Resume original routing
OR
Contine straight on Executive
L on Marenelli
(White Flint)
R on Rockville
Resume orignal routing
OR
Continue straight on Marenelli
R on Nebel
IIRC, Nebel meets Parklawn.
What do we think?
At one time, the 38 did one of your suggestions. It would make a Right on Jefferson, Left on Old G'Town, Right on 355. But, for some unknown reason, they flipped the routing up there with the 5. The 5 used to take Jefferson, make a left on Montrose and a right on 355. Now, it takes Jefferson, makes a left on Old Georgetown and a Right onto 355 and the 38 takes Montrose across Jefferson/Executive and continues up to that crazy intersection at Montrose and 355. I've never been able to figure this out and I don't know why both the 5 and 38 couldn't just do the same thing unless the people who live in the condos at 355 and Montrose want a bus to serve that section of Montrose between Jefferson and 355. My other thought to having the 38 make a left on Montrose from 355 is that maybe there is something with the light at Executive and Montrose that makes it even later when heading towards Montgomery Mall.
The mall bound routing is fine, although yesterday, the bus that was susposed to be at Gainsbourough and Tuckerman at 3:20 was at Seven Locks near Postoak at 3:26, with all the seats taken. A second bus was there too, standing room only. I have taken westbound 38s plenty of times and I can't ever recall waiting for a third green to make the left turn off of 355, even in morning rush hour.
There are only 2 stops on Montrose Road that would be eliminated with a new 38 routing. There are 2 on Rockville Pike, which are also served by the 46. Of the 2 Montrose Road stops, one is within walking distance of the 5, 81, and rerouted 38, the other is within walking distance of the 46.
I really think Ride On should look into rerouting the 38 and just do what the 5 does. Execuitve Blvd. and Jefferson Street are such nice alternatives to 355. I use it often when I'm driving up that way so I don't have to tackle the minivans and other mommy mobiles on 355.
Let's tackle this one first:
Today was Veteran's Day Observed.
Montgomery County Public Schools were in session, as were many privates.
Ride-On and MetroBus were on Saturday Supplemental Schedules.
This means, some routes didn't operate at all, others at obscure times. Anyone who relies on those two for transport was out of luck.
IMO, its either weekday transit service or no school.
They may as well run them on weekday schedules. This "Saturday Supplemental" service doesn't really cut it anymore. A few extra runs here and there isn't going to solve the problems. Metrorail was running really weird today too. I waited over 10 minutes for a train at White Flint tonight at 6:45PM.
I caught a glimpse of one of those new Ride On buses with the orange signs with a bike rack on it as well.
I got to Friendship Heights, saw that a train just arrived, gave up, and took the school bus. Didn't feel like risking it. I know two people who forgot about the schedule change. One got to school at 10 AM, it took the other 2 hours to make her commute...
Hello folks; I have just found another bus sighting on the screen, and this time it would be of everyone's particular interest here all around; it is the new video to "New York, New York", the latest single by Ryan Adams.
Many familiar NYC sites and thoroughfares are mentioned in the song and seen on the video, and last but not least, lots of buses are shown, including a New York Bus Service MCI(?) Classic, along with several NYCTA RTSes zipping around in fast forward motion. Also, an RTS with gold and blue arrow stripes is shown; any idea what TA this was?
At any rate, you should all see it; it is dedicated to you, the good people of New York. God bless you all.
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Your "Coach Potato"
Also in the video, I think I had seen a Green Bus drive across. It goes by pretty fast and could just make out the "Green Bus" lettering on the side of the bus.
Gotcha..I seem to remember that one as well. Great video!
-F.
Here's another bus sighting , this time on the silver screen; I finally saw the newer remake of "Gone In 60 Seconds" today featuring Nicholas Cage. In the big chase scene with Eleanor (the grey Shelby Mustang that makes all the gearheads drool), an LA(?) police cruiser gets T-boned by a Grumman 870 in a reddish orange-striped paint scheme with black around the windows. The number on the front was in the 7500s; I would assume a former LAMCTA? Let me know what this is; it was a good-looking bus!
Oh yes..the police report immediately afterwards was reported as an accident "with the TA involved". Nice touch!
-Fred Donaher
"The Coach Potato"
I remember 2 music videos from the late 1980's featuring older buses from my video watching days.
First was a video by the Neville Brothers "Thank You Sister Rosa" based on the Selma and Montgomery Boycotts - lots of vintage footage of (empty) GM Old Looks during the time of the boycotts. Unfortunately, their re-creation of the episode was filmed on a GM NEW Look - arrrgghh! So much for accuracy!
Second was by a otherwise little known rap group called "991 Volts." The whole video takes place on a journey on a Flxible New Look. The bus is even numbered 991, and appears to be in a red scheme if I recall correctly. Looking back, the style of rap back then is kinda cheesy!
Anyone got some info on these (sorry for borrowing on your theme, Flxible!)
Saw RTS #8619 (from the rear, passing camera location) on America's Most Wanted in a brief clip detailing terrorist activity and how they blend-in with society.
Ooh...very nice. I assume this was a NYCTA unit? Thanks for the info!
-F.
It was a NYCT unit :-)
I knew it would be; thanks!
-Fred
Oh, no bother; I love it. That's why I developed the theme in the first place...so that fellow members may follow with more pop culture sightings. 991, eh? I need to look that up...especially with the red scheme. Our Valley Metro Flx New Looks were similar.
Also, I agree that a New Look is not period-correct, but it is one of my favorite designs...maybe they were showing 1959, when those were new? Who knows...I'd like to see it though. Thanks fof the info!
-F.
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If I were to apply to be a B/O and succeed, would I be assigned to a depot or would I get to choose one ? If I were to choose, I'd like some advice: MaBSTOA or NYCT? Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx, Manhattan, or SI ? Morning, Noon, Night, or Late Night (keep in mind that this is a part - time work situation)?
The NYCTA bus operator job is a civil service position, which requires passage of a civil service exam. MaBSTOA has used the exams of the NYCTA in the past, but on occasion accepts applications.
Neither positions, by contractual agreement (in favor of the operator) are part-time.
The private lines accept applications.
Long Island Bus offers part time status.
Email me with questions if you'd like.
First it depends on if you take the civil service test given by the city(for the TA) or just apply to MaBSTOA(OA) and get on their list for consideration. Taking the city's test limits your options to working in Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island or 126th Street Depot only in Manhattan. Applying for OA allows you to work in Manhattan (not 126) and the Bronx. It's a long story about why that is.
As far as the TA side goes, get on the list, do a drug test, take a medical, fill out 50 pages of paperwork, get fingerprinted and mug for the camera for your pass and you're in
Do the training (6 weeks total) with training division Supt's (hello to Supt. Donovan of MTV) (7-10 days) and with operators at the depot you may or may not get to select depending on if you have the 3rd or 37th highest list number in the class of 40 or so you get into.
After that get your badge and key on Friday, go out on your own Sunday evening.
And of course before all that, get your CDL permit with the passenger endorsement, have no more than 3 points off your license for the previous three years. You can get the whole license if you want to through a private driving school but it is very costly I think, so it would probably be wiser just to get the permit and get the training for free from the TA, who will also schedule your road test for you (pay 40 bucks for that i think.)
Bottom line. Don't make any weekend or evening plans for the next few years. PART-TIME??? Fugghedaboutit.
You had Mike Donovan for training? Is he still around? I had him also... out of Manhattanville Depot, where I started.
It was back in summer of '98. I think he had 35 years then. He probably is still around.
Yes, He's still around, He trained me back in May 2000, and I saw him last week at Gun Hill, I think he's working out of Zerega, he had RTS 5110 with 4 students. Great Guy I think.
I had Mike back in 1995. I was put in Manhatanville becouse my farther is the Midnight Crew Disp. I think Mike broke in my farther 32year ago, when he was a rookie driver. I think my farther said that he just retired but I am not shore about it.
Robert
Well, Like I said, I saw him last week and we spoke for a while, he did not mention anything about retiring.
From each group who gets hired, they go to a given depot based on how many openings are in each depot based on your list number. As for your shift and days off, you deal with the individual depot management while you qualify on each induvidual route in the depot.
this isnt a quiz. the only reason i numbered the questions is that u'll have less trouble answering them (and me reading 'em!)
1)Where can i get QUALITY pics of the MCI new looks?
2)Now, I remember that in the early 90's, I still saw them in Rockaway. When was the final ones discontiued? Are there any still around for use or display? If so, where?
3)on which express routes can I catch the following:
a)Orion V's (700's)
I)how many are there?
b)MCI classics?
c)any other notible buses
4)are any of the afforementioned busses @ the rockaway terminal?
dont worry, if you want a quiz, you dont have to wait long (hit,hint)
5)do you think that if MTA took over GBL, would we see MCI's on the QM16 and 17?
6)should GBL have moreservice an promote it as an alternate to the slow (A) line?
5) Most likely since the MTA is drilling towards a ALL MCI Cruiser Express Fleet.
6) HELL NO! I experienced the Green Line slowness today and I was not pleased. Even Triboro's Q53 ran more than the Green Line Routes!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Trevor-----
6) you also have to realize the equation more service=less congestion per route.
Well, I don't know about MCI New Looks, But here is a decent photo of a MCI Classic that I took:
2) Couldn't help you there, sorry!
3a) You can catch the Orion 05.501 Suburbans on either of Green lines QM Express routes, I usually see them around 34th Street around 4:30pm and after.
3b) There is 4 of them, Buses #719-722
3c) MCI Classics, 6 out of the 14 Classics for Green lines have suburban seats of which 4 have back doors that you'd see in use on the Express line, they are used spuradically, as most of the them Green lines tosses a Orion out there, yes-the locals ones too!
3d) You can look for MCI Classics #705-712 which are the only Local Classics in this area. You have #1148-1149 which are the only two TMC RTS-06s with lower level destination signs (Ex-Queens Surface #275 and 276). Then you have all of the 55xx Series Orions flowing around with Orange Luminator Signs and 5503 which is still wrapped.
4) Nothing at Rockaway Terminal, I was out there today!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
thanks trevor! any more?
Photos or Info?
Trevor
Trevor, I always wondered, what year are those MCI classics? Also, even though I believe the answer is no, do they have wheelchair lifts on them? I was sitting next to one in the airport last week, and was looking inside, and I must say it looked kind of depressing. It had cords to ring the bells and the inside looked dirty overall and kind of old fashioned. I never rode on one and wouldn't really look forward too and always wondered what Green Lines saw in these buses. I don't remember what the number was but it sure didn't look as good as the one in your picture. Thanks in advance for answering my questions.
BIG AL
[... I always wondered, what year are those MCI classics?]
1988
[Also, even though I believe the ... do they have wheelchair lifts on them?]
No none of them.
[I must say it looked kind of depressing (inside)]
I can't believe that we're the only depot that was given money from nycDOT to renovate them. We roll them in, gut them, replace/repair/re-install & send them back out for another few years of loyal service.
Mr rt__:^)
We do the same at Liberty Lines Express. We send at least one bus a week out to Long Island to get repainted. The interior of our buses are always clean and yes Liberty shampoos the seats. Seems like Command is doing the same also. I cant speak for Green Lines but at Liberty our Classics run and look great for buses that are 12-13 years old. No need to comment on NY Bus Service cause their Classics still look like new.
Kevin Barsky
TransiTALK.com
Any idea where on Long Island the buses are sent ? Is it Thrift Auto & Truck all the way out in Coram (exit 64 on the LIE) ?
Yes it is Thrift Auto and Truck.
Peace,
Kevin
anything. open-eded question to any more bustalkers
Here's a treat, I got a few bus model photos on the TransitTALK community at msn. the addrss is:
http://communities.msn.com/TheTransitTALKCommunity/mdlsmodelbuses.ms
Today while on #8924 on the M2, I heard a sound that you would only here in a Command TMC CNG or a LI Bus Orion 5 CNG. IT WAS THAT PIGEON SOUND WHEN IT SLOWED DOWN.
I was like woa, I wonder if this will happen to all of the Series 50s as I've heard this happen before but thought I was dreaming, now its a second time. Something is going on!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I thought that pigeon sound (or as I call it, the new school fake jake brake) sound was common on the CNG Series 50's. It is just about a common occurance when I ride QSC Orions.
Anyone else experience this?
I found that a lot buses with the ZF Transmissions make this sound as the pigeon is becoming common in the NJ Transit RTS's which is all ZF Tranny. But to hear it on the Series 50/Allison combo is just not normal!
The QSC or shall I say DOT Orions have more of a cough than that pigeon sound.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Pigeon? Is that where the tranny is downshifting and is sounds like it is being played on a synthesizer off-key? I would have to hear what you are talking about, but if that's the case, that sounds like a Voith trait. Our new Gilligs do something similar; it's weird!
-F.
Voith trannys when they slow down a Cat screaming, its fun to hear!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Here is my analogy of Bus Sounds:
Series 60 DDEC with A Jake Brake (Found in most new MCI Cruisers):
When slowing down, the Jakes sounds like a Machine Gung going off.
Cummins Engines with ZFs:
When slowing down all CNGs give off this Pigeon sound, some diesels do it.
Voith Transmissions:
When slowing down sounds like a Cat screaming.
DDC S50 CNG Engines:
When slowing down sounds like someone is coughing.
Any more anyone?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Sure; here are more:
Any Flxible or GM New Look with DD71 and Allison 2 or 3-speed:
When shifting from 1st to 2nd, a big "OOF" sound emits and the whole bus jerks forward. Nothing like the feeling of torque...I love it!
Any Cummins ISL-powered bus with Voith tranny doing the same: A "YEEEEEEOWWW!" sound emits like a scalded cat. Really wild and powerful-sounding!
Any 6v92-powered bus with Allison V731: Same as above, only more so. I LOVE that sound; it's like a mighty orchestra!!! Oh yes, and when it's taking off, that power combo also sounds a lot like the DeLorean from "Back To The Future".
Same combo, downshifting: A "WHOOB-WHOOB-WHOOB" sound that's right out of the Three Stooges. Curly, anyone?
Any early Series 50-powered Gillig or New Flyer taking off from the curbside: A clanky, rice-burning lawnmower sound. Ugh...doesn't even sound like a bus.
A Flxible New Look building up air pressure: A soft, pulsing sound reminiscent of that at the end of Steve Miller's "Fly Like An Eagle", accompanied by a subtle "SLURCH....SLURCH...SLURCH..."
Let's hear some more, folks!
-F.
Actually, our older New Flyers are beginning to gain some pretty unique personalities. Sometimes upon take off they scream, or they have this sound of a metallic substance being dragged across concrete. It's pretty nice once you get used to it. And once they get going, it's like being a space ship, they sound so futuristic. And when they slow down, it's a nice whooooooooooooooooooooooo, kind of like a ghostly howl. And right before they stop, a simple tss! These buses are poised to take the Grumman 870's spot as my 2nd favortie bus of all time.
I LOVE that ghostly howl; we have that in our 6v92 Gilligs. How old are those New Flyers, and what kind of power teams?
-F.
The Flyers are 1996-98 models numbered 4000-4156. I'm assuming that they are DD Series 50 as they sound totally different from the boring Cummins powered New Flyers which are rampant. Supposedly Metro has ordered 50 replacement engines for the older NFIs. I'm interested to see how they sound.
I see; we had Series 50 in our 1998 LFs in Blacksburg. I didn't know most came with a Cummins; wonder how they sound?
-F.
The Cummins powered NFIs sound like a common Dodge truck with a Cummins engine. They are VERY boring, but VERY fast.
I see; our Skillcraft buses (dumpy little 25-footers that are thannkfully retired) were like that; they sounded very boring just like you said. I shuddered at the thought of Cummins on our new Gilligs but they actually have a nice sound to them with the ISL.
And hey...what's wrong with Dodge Trucks? I LOVE 'em!!!
-F.
Jackie Gleason's LF New Flyers sometimes make a screeming sound when they go fast enough, and when they stop the engine low pitched sound like a howl.
Oh, I bet everyone knows this annoying sound, when all of the RTS GMC's and TMC's start up, you hear a loud screeming sound, which scares me sometimes. It sound like the engine is going to die or something!
All RTS 85'GMC's must die!
I think that's an air starter. The older NYCT buses use an air starter, which makes a loud screaming sound that really startles you. Many people in Flushing got startled when an Orion started up. The newer buses since 1999 I think use regular starters again. I wonder why the TA went with those air starters. Many buses still use them, especially out of Stengal.
I've choked a few times on my soda in fits of laughter watching people practically jump out of their skins when an air starter bus cranks up....
and I hate to admit, but I've jumped out of my skin a few times myself when one caught me by suprise.
My sentiments exactly.
I always loved when I got a bus with an air starter. I'd be REALLY sneaky getting into the bus if people were standing near the rear end, and hurry up and hit the start button before they realized it.
I'm surprised nobody's ever had a heart attack because of one of those air starters!!!!
LOL!!!
-F.
In Boston, the 1980 GM-Canada T6H-5307N's (#5200-5299) had really loud air starters. I learned after a while to prepare myself by listening for a telltale 'click' about half a second before the starter would go off. And, yes, some fellow riders would practically leap out of their shoes when it went off!
The MBTA's Flyer D901's also were equipped with air starters, but they were a quieter model, and less prone to riling up jumpy commuters. I don't know if any of Boston's RTS buses have air starters.
Jim D.
Oh man...are those the ones that sound like an air drill? No WONDER people get startled...what a horrible sound!
-F.
That metal scraping sound on New Flyers when they take off is actually the transmission getting ready to fly south for the winter!! It's usually the ZF transmissions....I have driven many of our 1990 New Flyer D40's when this sound develops, and on a couple, wound up waiting for the tow truck. The soudn is the transmission clutches with no meat left on them.....
It's very odd. The only time the sound ever bothered me was on NFI 4107 where the sound was so loud it made my head ache. But on all of the buses, the sound stops abruptly when you hear "Pfff Pffsss" or first a hissing noise, then two air releases.
"Same combo, downshifting: A "WHOOB-WHOOB-WHOOB" sound that's right out of the Three Stooges. Curly, anyone? "
The LI Bus Orion CNG's with the Cummins make that sound.
THAT's that PIGEON SOUND!
Trevor
Hmm...I'd have to hear it to know for sure. Where can I find bus SFX online at this time? Let me know; thanks!
-F.
These days bus sounds are quite boring, however, there is one that is worth a listen--a Series 50 engine with muffler or catalytic converter troubles. Its especially nice with a ZF tranny, as was the case with FLA's 5094 on the B41 last Friday.
Mark
Actually, the Cummins ISL with Voith transmission is made for those who love bus sounds and is QUITE non-boring. For a demo, ride one today or look at previous listings under this post.
-F.
You hit the nail on the head, Mark. I love the way the Novas sound when they have a blown muffler or cat. converter. The sound is much louder but very deep, like a lion about to roar. We've had quite a few '96 Novas with blown exaust systems now. Another thing I notice is that the acceleration is much faster with the blown system. I usually write the bus up because it's a disservice to the community, especially at night, to hear an extra loud bus, but I definitely love that deep growl the bus makes from it.
BIG AL
Neat...bet those are fun buses to ride!
-F.
Hey Flxible - - -
My favorite, and unfortunately rare sound effect is that sound when a New Look 8V-71 rolls over into Direct Drive on a 3 speed trans, instead of the neat "OOF" always felt from 1 to 2, the shift from 2 to 3 is an orchestral "grrrr....REEEEEEAR" - Ahh, how I miss that!
We have this one gentle hill stretch here which tears up the Allison 731's on the 6V92's in particular - - the bus just steady goes back and forth between gears, with a shaking "WHOOB WHOOB WHOOB - - -- WHHEEERRRR - - - - - - WHOOB WHOOB WHOOB...." The bus will not stay in one gear or the other.
My other favorite Bus Sound Effect is not even diesel, it's electric, the combined buzz and grumble one experiences from riding Flyer Trackless Trolleys. ahhhhhhhhhhh
What really turns me on and sends me into the parcel racks is hearing a MCI D Series Cruiser shift from 5th to 6th gear, its so melodic.
God my skin is crawling just typing about it!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Thanks for sharing
OK, so why was I out of line?
-Hank :p
Hmm...never heard that one. Remind me to bring a towel when I ride one...LOL!
LOL!
Rode those Flyer ETB's many times...in San Francisco, usually all you hear is the overly loud air compressor, and the horn blowing....or some loud comments in Chinese from the drivers trying to wend their way up Stockton Street. I don't know a word of Chinese, but what they are saying sure sounds like some very strong expletives!!!
Hey...that sounds like the way the 59 Fishbowl at OMOT does when it shifts..I LOVE that sound! Kinda like how most 71-series buses sound when they rev up. VERY nice!
Also, that other sound definitely looks like a 92/V731 combo to me!
-F.
All you young whippersnappers probably never heard FART BRAKES....old GM TDH4507's when the door interlocks released.
And as mentioned, the jake brakes nowadays are NOTHING compared to those that wee on San Francisco Muni's GM T8H5305's. Nothing like 'em!!!
WHIPPERSNAPPERS!???!?!?!!!!!!!
WOA NELLY, you must be up there in age?!
Trevor
Yep, I won't deny it....I'm an OLD FART!!!! :-)
Wow...I didn't know Fishbowls had a Jake-type brake. Fart brakes, eh? Do you know if the 3714s ever had those? I must know more.
-F.
I know...that's the way our Gilligs are...with kind of an afterburner sound. It's really neat!
-F.
Actually, I heard this "pigeon" sound once when I rode the 9584 on the Q54. And when I rode it again a couple weeks later I didn't hear it.
is it mostly the transmission sounds you hear ???
Here's a treat, I got a few bus model photos on the TransitTALK community at msn. the addrss is:
http://communities.msn.com/TheTransitTALKCommunity/mdlsmodelbuses.ms
I did not get the link to come up; try again?
Click Here
Then follow the albums to you see "MDL's Model Buses" and click on the mini photo to enter the album.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Nice photos; I assume the Oakland, Chicago, and Houston are customs? Also, that 1776 is NEAT! Is that the one offered through the NJT store? I have never seen one with the web address in it before. Great photos!
-Fred
Those Oakland, Houston and Chicago units were actually done by Road Champs as I have them myself.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
No way...you're kidding! Even the psuedo WMATA-type lettering by the front door? When did these come out? I missed those. Also, when did Road Champs start detailing the clearance lights?
-F.
They have on certain models got detailed.
Here is a link to my models: Click Here
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Great photos Trevor!
-Fred
A little secret revealed:
1.The pseudo-WMATA lettering is mine, done with a labelmaker
2.You can detail the clearance lights by using a fine point red magic marker.
Ah..I usually use enamel paint and a toothpick for a fine detailed look, as you have on your buses. Also, I make similar decals for my customs using clear decal sheet. Nice job on yours!
-F.
Please give the site address again, Can't get into the one posted.
Ditto here.
-F.
The E/F/G Court Square/Queensbridge/Queens Plaza shuttle bus returned this week. Weeknights, and all weekend long.
Oh, joy!
Took this shot right on my street in front of my house !! glad this bus stopped for a sexy pose !! what do you think ?
how bout that folks ???
After riding several Low-Floor buses over the past year, I still cannot get used to these model of buses. The interior steps seem to invite those "professional injury victim" and their greedy lawyers. Any trip and fall (while the bus is in motion) would be a cash cow to these money grubbing assholes. That`s why I would like to see a 100% low-floor bus, not these "Rolling Lawsuits", or better no low floor buses at all.
I hope the construction of the side panel on these buses are tough. Another concern is the broadside hit. A couple of passengers unlucky enough to sit in the low portion during a broadside accident would have a way too high chance of buying the farm if a car or truck hits the side hard enough. Maybe its me, but I like the high floor buses better.
I always wondered about that. Dont wanna be sitting there. Always sit on the higher deck in the back.
Give Me A RTS Any Day Over an New Flyer LF Or A NABI LF!
>>> Another concern is the broadside hit. <<<
How many of those have there been in New York in the past year? Here in Los Angeles I cannot remember seeing a news story in the newspapers or on TV in the past three years in which a bus was broadsided. On the other hand, as a person with bad knees who has trouble stepping up to a curb, I much prefer the LF buses.
I regularly ride NABIs on one line and RTSs on another. The RTSs with their narrow doors and steep steps are a real bitch to get on particularly if I am carrying packages. I have to hook my elbows over the bars inside the bus and pull myself up one step at a time. Once inside I can fish out my ID (monthly pass) to show the driver. Getting off is also a problem since I have to hold onto a handhold and descend one step at a time. With a NABI I just step on with my ID in my hand, and getting off at a curb is a straight step also. If it is necessary to go to the raised portion of the back of the bus it is no problem because there are vertical bars to hold onto on both sides of the aisle. I have never seen another passenger stumble on the interior step either.
In this area there are many elderly people riding the buses, and a high floor adds significant time to loading and unloading the buses. Besides the NABIs, there are Orion VI, and New Flyer low floor buses near here which I prefer to any high floor bus. The other high floor buses I ride are Neoplans and Bluebirds, both of which are easier to board than an RTS due to wider front doors.
Tom
true so true
For any of you who sit it the back of the 99'Novas(4900-5249), do you notice a strange sound that goes "kkkiiiieeeeeee" when the AC is on? I rode many of the older Novas and I don't hear it. Ride a 99'Novas to see what I'm talking. It usually starts when the bus goes pass 15 MPH.
Yeah, its the new Carrier Transicold system that in the 97 and on up Novas that is making that sound, its in the compressor system!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Most guys here are too young to remember, but the first contract of the TA air conditioned fishbowls, the ones with the wings numbered from 8001 to 87XX, 1966 models, also had a strange interior sound with the a/c operating. When it wasn't broke!
Hmmm...yeah, AC buses get that way, especially when they get older. When our Grummans got that way, it's almost as if they sounded like a whole different bus with it running! Also, one of our older Gilligs (9104) has a droning roar to it with the air on that makes it sound different from the others. Something about age gives those parts character, I guess!
-F.
That is the condeser coils. The 99 Novas have Thermo King HVAC units, Model M11L10. The 98 Novas do the same thing. They only make that sound in the AC mode while in the Heat mode the only thing that runs are the exhaust fans on the rear and the blowers on the floor to provide heat.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
The New Flyer C40LF condensor coils make that "shrill" sound as well when the AC is on.
I didn't take my camera last night so I wasn't able to photograph but here is what I saw:
4077 (I believe she has a flag) on the 42 at Metro Center.
2075 has a flag, the first non-Flxible bus I've seen with one. She was on the 80 at 9th and H Street (Convention Center)
2090 doesn't have the ugly purple banner on the top. It has the word "metrobus" on the top. Maybe that spot can be used for advertising. In case Metro hasn't realized, the Orion VI isn't very new anymore.
On the top? You mean like the bulk of the roof sides over the windows? I never saw ad spaces there but if so, it sounds like a retro Bus-O-Rama effect to me!
-F.
Yeah, it would be kinda redolent of the 'batwings' on old Flxis and Fishbowls. Actually, only about half of the O-VIs had those 'Here's your new Metrobus' banners . . . the slanted 'Metrobus' logo was underneath the vinyl all the time.
I don't particularly care for the Metrobus logo up there . . . It's too big, the faux-italicization looks dumb, and there's too much white space around it. They should maybe add some striping up there or a DC skyline for 'special edition' buses. The problem with the low-floor buses is that the beltline for the windows is so low that it really messes up existing paint schemes.
C
I know...never was crazy about that big bulky space up there..the only exception is the paint scheme on our new Thomas SLFs....it curves up there nicely. Italicized logo? EEEEYUCK...how cheap-sounding! ACK!!!
-F.
[The problem with the low-floor buses is that the beltline for the windows is so low that it really messes up existing paint schemes.]
From an economic standpoint, some authorities have not figured out how to put ads below the beltline, because the space is more limited than high floor buses. Last time I was in Brooklyn, I don't think I saw any ads on the TA's New Flyer Low Floor CNG buses. They look nice without ads on the sides, but it seems like some revenue is lost. I'm sure other authorities have been putting ads on the sides of low floor buses, although they may be different in size than those on high floor buses.
ads have been popping up on the low floor buses. i have seen them. i dont know how well these buses will work during a major snowstorm,only time will tell.
I've seen ads on Broward Co. (Florida) low floors.
I said they should put them there.
Exactly. Good place for them!
-F.
I can't remember which Orion VI I saw a side ad on it, but it was one of the ones in VA. It took me totally by surprise because it almost looked like it was going to drag on the ground. It was a Washington Post ad and this was a while ago. I've never seen that one again, maybe they did take it off.
It does seem like mostly Flxibles have the Flag on the back, but I did see one on Orion V 4383 the other day, so maybe they are finally expanding it.
From where does 4383 run?
4383 is an Arlington division run. I her on the 2G out near Fair Oaks Mall. Now that this division runs routes on weekends, it will probably be on the road a whole lot more.
The Flxibles....now THERE's the reason I like riding buses in DC.
-F.
There are so many pesky Orions running around that the Flxibles are harder to spot nowadays. I will have to shed a tear for the first one that shows up in the Fort Totten scrap yard. Hopefully, that wont be for awhile, but with some of the Metro B's pushing 15 years, its going to be soon for a few.
God I hope not...let's buy a few whe they come up for bid so that doesn't happen. I really hope the Flxibles do not disappear from the DC landscape; they were wall-to-wall when I last visited in January 2000 and they were a BEAUTIFUL sight. Damn it, MCI...quit sitting on that tooling and MAKE MORE METROS!!!
-F.
I'm all for buying them when they are ready to go up for bid! I saw a whole bunch today, of course AM and PM peak will have all equipement out there. But, I saw 9406 on the 28B, I also saw a few of the 35 footers and caught a few others on I-66 west leaving Vienna including a PRTC RTS, but I was driving at, ummm, well, not the speed limit, so I couldn't get the numbers, but I did see them albeit briefly. The Flxibles most likely to be run on the weekends would be the Metro D's and E's I would think. With the way that WMATA keeps buses running, I figure some should still be running in 2010, which would make the Metro E's 16 years old.
That sounds great; so I have 9 years to get to DC and ride. Hopefully this skirmish with Afghanistan will be over by then.
-F.
Test
Hey everyone. Despite all of the schoolwork that I've been doing, I have decided to return to the boards to give out any bus or subway info that I have. Glad to be back in the saddle once again.
#951 Amtrak AEM-7
The True Red White and Blue
Glad you're back, but remember---the school work comes first.
BIG AL
Hey Amtrak,
The NYCTA is looking for "Computer Programmer Analysts" or something...
It's in this weeks Chief. Starting pay is around $38,000, benefits, etc. etc. etc.
Hi Al.
On some Orions mainly the 500 series a strange sound is heard when the bus slows down. It sounds like a "shu" sound. It occures 4 or 5 times. Its way too slow to be jake brake. What causes this sound?
From what you describe, it sounds like the retarder. Many of the retarders nowadays are air activated. They usually activate automatically when the drivers releases pressure from the throttle. The air sound happens when the driver reapplies pressure to the thorttle, and the retarder releases. (At least that's how it is on all the NFI D40LF's and NABI's that I drive....)
I saw on one of the rosters back in 1990 time, Yukon had 4854-4899 and Castleton had 8293-8339. Then these 2 groups got transferred between the depots. 4854-4872 went to Castleton, 4873-4888 were converted to Suburban and stayed at Yukon with 4889-4899.
8293-8314(later up to 8316) went to Yukon and 8315-8339 stayed at Castleton.
What was the reasoning behind these switches? The 4800s had 2x2 seats and Castleton wanted some?
Also, when the 4800s left Staten Island, save 4892-4899, with 4898-4899 at Edgewater now, why was 4889-4891 transferred out also and not kept with 4892-4899 at Yukon? I understand taking all the expresses out and the Castleton ones, but why these 3 also?
castleton never had 8293-8319. when the order was delivered in june 1991 yukon got 8280-8319 and castleton 8320-8339. 8280-8292 went to manhattan and 8317-8339 went to flatbush.
Why the infatuation with Electronic signs?!?
Today, my Baltimore MTA bus was determined to be the "1-FORT MC HENRY" - despite the fact that I was working the 27 line! So for my shift, I had a tacky piece of paper in the windshield with "27" magic markered on it. Depite this, I know that people Downtown missed my bus accidentally, as they didn't pay attention to the hand sign, only seeing the big and bold destination sign, proudly signed for the wrong route.
The advantage to these signs was supposed to be an extended range of destination readings available which would be easily updateable in light of service changes, and allow reassignment of coachs between Divisions without a need to change scrolls.
But to me it seems that these "advantages" are minor compared with the frequent malfunction of these signs, the more costly and more technical upkeep, and the disenchantment of riders who miss their bus thinking its something else.
Why are Transit Agency Brass and Equipment suppliers so standardized on Digital signs?!? Personally, I think that a scroll and electric motor with a flywheel gear override would be far more reliable, readable, and trouble free. Any thoughts or debate?
Well, I think you've already enumerated the downsides: they're inflexible in the event of service changes, and I'd argue equally error-prone -- mechanical jams and the like. WMATA was gradually moving towards replacing the rollsigns in its New Looks and Fishbowls with flipdots before the fleet's untimely demise last year.
Some brands of electronic signs seem better than others. The Voltron flipdot units used in most of Metro's Metro-Bs are virtually bulletproof, albeit quite dim and prone to "pixel litter." Conversely, the newer units (with a spiffy LCD control panel) installed in Metro's 4200-4300, 2200-2300, and 3700 Orions are gorgeous looking, with excellent visibility, but seem to malfunction with inordinate frequency.
Guess it boils down to personal preference.
Chris
WMATA was gradually moving towards replacing the rollsigns in its New Looks and Fishbowls with flipdots before the fleet's untimely demise last year.
Really? All I recall is celebrating whenever a rollsign on a WMATA New Look did work; I do not remember seeing any of them with flipdot retrofits.
Some brands of electronic signs seem better than others. The Voltron flipdot units used in most of Metro's Metro-Bs are virtually bulletproof, albeit quite dim and prone to "pixel litter."
Vultron's earlier products were very well made, although not particularly exciting to look at. These are the downward-scrolling signs with smaller pixels common on buses of the mid and late 1980s. (such as WMATA's first Flxible Metros up until the 9200s).
Their newer stuff (seen on WMATA 4200-4300-4400-3900) is just the opposite. It is very pleasing to look at (in my opinion) and the pixels are tiny (producing high-resolution readings) and the font is nice, but like Chris says, they malfunction constantly.
On the 2000 Orion order (2000-2100-2200) WMATA returned to Luminator signage. The ODK (control panel) you refer to is very nice, but it is not a product of either Vultron or Luminator, but rather made by another manufacturer and designed to be compatable with numerous types of signs.
I agree with Broadway Exprees in that rollsigns are very nice for many reasons. Rest assured that a lot of smaller systems still use them. When it comes to digital signs, I wish Vultron could get their act together on workmanship, because their product looks the nicest when it works!
One of the biggest problems to Electronic signs is water - be it from the rain or from the wash rack - - - And water seems to break every upper seal I've seen so far, be it Flxibles, NABIs, Neoplans or whatever!
It's always fun to ride the "23 - $^)AFNHKQ@)*! $@"
. . . and of course at night, condensation builds up on on the glass panel in front of the sign, rendering it illegible. That's my pet peeve. ;)
In response to RTS T80: yes, Metro was starting to retrofit what appeared to be Vultron flipdot units into its New Looks and Fishbowls. These were the I think I saw five or ten distinct units so equipped. It actually worked out fairly well; the Vultron units fit behind the same glass as the rollsigns and, despite their inherent dimness, they were slightly angled towards the ground, which boosted their legibility a bit. 'Course, they're all gone now . . . :(
C
Why not install the signs in a waterproof box and have some kind of defogging mechanism installed in he front glass?
Great idea...you never know, that may be an option one day!
-F.
Many WMATA Flxis do have some sort of horizontal lines running across that glass . . . not sure if they're defroster wires or just reinforcing moldings a la car headlights.
C
They have been there since we got them.
That makes sense...I have seen those too. Must be something electronic!
-F.
Why not install the signs in a waterproof box and have some kind of defogging mechanism installed in the front glass?
I frown on that as well. Oh well...at least us used bus-shoppers can rejoice in the fact that they are now available. I want one!
-F.
LOL!!! Wat TA is this? I've gotta see!
-F.
I wasn't aware WMATA already scrapped the New Looks and Fishbowls. Those buses HAD a lot of good life left in them. Did they keep any for historical purposes? There was only one Fishbowl at M.S.B.A. (now M.T.A. L.I. Bus) retrofitted with the digital sign, and that was number 848, a 1974 model, and I believe the sign was taken out before the bus was scrapped in the early '90's. Kinda curious how it would look on a Flx NewLook?
I thought I read something that indicated WMATA kept a couple of fishbowls, but I don't know which ones. No Flx New Looks were kept, I don't think.
The Fishbowls were kept through 2000, IIRC. Some Flx New Looks ran until then as well....wonder where they all are now?
-F.
They were put up for public auction with scrap tires . . . they sat on the Fort Totten lot for much of 2000. Don't know about any major TAs or scrapyards that bought multiple units, but they were publicly available, so my guess is a handful wound up in collectors' hands . . .
Some RTSes were also sold in the same auction.
C
What happened to the rest of the RTS?
A few are still on the WMATA roster, I believe, although I didn't see them as much on the T2 run as they used to be. But many were auctioned off and some were lost through attrition over the years. DC's becoming Planet Orion.
C
I don't think they kept any. The T2 is now Flxibles with the occasional 9000 series Orion V.
Oh God....NO!!! I like Orions and all but I WANT MY FLXIBLES!!!!
-F.
I hope all of them were preserved; I really do. It's a shame when stylish classics have to go to the shredder whe the masses con't care about them anymore. They just don't MAKE 'em like GM and Flx New Looks anymore!
-F.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the last time I was by Nimco (July), there were a couple of Metrobus '66 New Looks and several '79 RTSes :(
But Nimco sells those for reuse, right? Or are they the SPCA for buses...give them a home or lights out? I hope not the latter.
-F.
Nimco does sell used buses, but from the wording on their website ("our revolving inventory allows us to offer a constant supply of good, running, used equipment"), I'd say it's the SPCA. (Does that make it a "bus shelter?")
Oh boy...let's hope not. I hate the thought of slaughtered Flxibles.
-F.
I've seen them before; LED signs on New Looks are neat but very unusual looking. I hope nothing got scrapped; to my knowledge, most of them were auctioned off or sold to private owners. I hope I am right on this!!!
-F.
I hope they all got auctioned off too. I was told that up until last year, DC was using Fishbowls from 1963! Is this true? Sure be a shame to let historic buses like that go to the scrap.
It sure is - - - the 1300's were all ex-AB&W Buses that were 1963 5302's.
Bryan Cooper of Baltimore saved 1302
Chet Fermanek of New Jersey saved 1303
There are a good handful of other saved METRO New Looks (including Flxibles), including more 5302's. When I can get the list, I'll post it here.
YAY!!! I KNEW those buses were too good to be scrapped.
-F.
Actually, yes. 1963 Fishbowls WERE in use through 2000; Laddie Vitek, a fellow busfan, purchased one of the older ones. As for your closing comment, damned right. Long live the New Looks.
-F.
Vultron's signs on the WMATA Orions are probably the worst I've ever had the misfortune of encountering. If the rumors are correct that the Vulton's on the orions are being replaced, then that's probably the smartest move WMATA has made for it's bus fleet in a long time.
BTW, the Orion V 2200s & VI 2100s have the Luminator signs; plus the 30 ft Orions are numbered in the 3900 series...
The 2100s...aren't they Vs? We had WMATA 2164 here as a demo last year and it was a V. Also, we had a 30-footer here as a borrowed demo for Downtown Express...no. 3900, actually. Nice riding buses!
-F.
Pixel litter...is that where random LEDs or flip dots stay on, even when the sign is off? Some of our older Gilligs are like that (Luminators, I think); they really do some strange things. Sometimes I look at those signs and think of the cover to "Ghost In The Machine" album by The Police. Really freaky looking.
Also, I agree; those GM and Flx New Looks had a TON of life left in them....what were they thinking? I wish I could have rode one in regular service when I was up there in January 2000. Oh well.
-F.
I certainly agree on the readability. Roll signs are also often more attractive than electronic signs. I can't vouch either way for reliability without access to repair logs (or at least a bit of experience driving buses of both sorts).
At the very least, the sign system should have a master power switch. If the sign insists on displaying blatantly incorrect route information, just shut it off and put a sheet of paper in the window. That's not great but it's better than displaying the wrong route.
In NYC, at least, I've found that the rear signs are very unreliable. I often see buses correctly signed as the M86 on the front and the side but signed as the M79 or M23 in back. I wonder why that is.
One of two things seem to contribute to rear sign malfunction....water (hate to water down the topic with all the water references, but I guess I'm all wet) or a wiring short circuit. In Baltimore, the unreliabilty of our rear signs caused them to be dropped from orders starting in 1998.
I've had the joy of pulling behind another bus in certain, only to have a passenger tell me "Let me out, I gotta catch that 35" - Seeing that the coach was from a yard that doesnt run the #35, I try to tell them that it's an 8 or 36 instead, but they insist, pointing to the malfunctioning rear sign. After they break their neck to flag the bus down, I'd pull up on them still in the bus stop, and smartly ask "So why didn't you catch that 35?!?," only to get the look of death in return!
At the very least, the sign system should have a master power switch. If the sign insists on displaying blatantly incorrect route information, just shut it off and put a sheet of paper in the window. That's not great but it's better than displaying the wrong route.
All that such a power switch would do is keep the sign stuck on the wrong routing and solve nothing.
Now maybe you want an all-clear switch that magnetizes each pixel so that they all flip to the same side.
We had a HUGE problem with digital signs last year when our local routes went from alphanumeric to numbered. Routes such as "1A" and "7G" became "71" and "55" and so on, making the bus system easier to use for passengers but a NIGHTMARE when it came to reading the signs as they all went hayware.
Our 94 models did OK (except for one that looked like it was written in Arabic when it went nuts one day) but the 1991 Gilligs (the first ever in Roanoke to feature digital signs) would either display the destination name but not the number, and some went completely blank! As a result, cardboard signs with LaserJet numbers slapped on and placed behind the windshield became the "official" destination sign as it took months for the signs to be reprogrammed (I think it was a chip?). Even better, to this day the sign for "35 VINTON" reads "MW VINTON" on some of the 91s for some unkown reason.
The new 2001 Gilligs, however, have had no problems as they were programmed with the numbers when they were built. Also, they feature bright orange LEDs with black background that is MUCH easier to read than the horrible white dots on blue background on older models.
-F.
I remember one RTS bus for WMATA in particular that had a problem with its side sign. Part of Ft. Totten was stuck on the sign, so I'd see things such as "Silvotten Sprotten".
Some of the back signs on the Orions, in particular, seem to pick up part of the destination sign instead of the route number, so it may read, FAI in the back, which is on a bus heading to Fair Oaks Mall instead of having "1C" on it.
So far, the only 1997-98 Orion V to have a new destination sign is 4309, which has the Orange Balios on it.
The Flx New Looks that had electronic signs were 8594-8603. I believe they came to WMATA already like that. When they first arrived in the late 70's early 80's, a few of them had pink pixels instead of the yellow/green ones, but were replaced soon after with the standard colored pixels.
I used to love watching the buses change signs with the roll signs, because you'd see all sorts of destinations on there, many which they never went to, but were included in the roll. The digital signs just flip right to the destination, so definitely not as much fun.
Silvotten Sprotten....LOL!!! Sounds like an evil Disney character or an SNL sketch. Wait a minute...Flx New Looks with factory digital signs?!? NO WAY! That's GOTTA be a retrofit. Also, the last New Looks were made in the fall of 1978, so anything that came after that was second-hand from another TA...IIRC, WMATA bought all of those brand new.
-F.
You might be right that they were retrofitted. That may be why they chose only 10 or so to do this. Its strange how they picked them in the middle of the fleet, but they were definitely cool to see. They used to have a box iniside facing out of the rear window, too, that had the route number. Of course, those windows got so fogged up and scratched up from the cleaning, that they were useless after awhile.
LOL, the evil Silvrotten Sprotten!! He's locked up IN the Magic Kingdom.
LOL...that's OK; Mickey Mouse will save the day. Don't forget to check out the new Cruella DeVille at you local Cadillac dealer!
Scratched windows? Let me guess...the Flxibles came with Plexiglas windows. We have those on our WMATA AM General and PenTran Flx New Look at our museum. They were a great idea as far as structural resilience but look like CRAP after a few years. Fortunately our other coaches have glass windows. The only downside? Cracked windows on some unrestored buses...what a pane. LOL!!!
-Fred
Hmm, the all new Cruella DeVille, available in white with black polka dots? LOL
Ugh, those plexiglass windows were so bad. The AM Generals faired the worse. I remember trying so hard to look out of those things without going blind. Little by little the Flx New Looks fell to the fogging and scratching as well. The best was when the bus would turn and the windows were off the track and the whole frame would fly open.
Oh boy...sounds like those things were pure hell. It's a wonder they weren't abandoned altogether as a glass option.
-F.
At NYCTA where each depot had it's own roll sign - One disadvantage of the old roll (mylar) signs was when buses were transferred to another depot. Often these buses would go into service without a roll sign until they got around to putting one in. Also when routes were created/changed and routes moving to different depots the signs had to have the new info added in.
Wayne
It's taken the electronic sign manufacturers the better part of two decades to develop destination signs that are as readable as the old mylar rollsign backlit by a fluorescent tube.
That said, I like the newer LED-type electronic destination signs which have the capability of displaying stacked routings, different letter sizes, etc.
I hate the old 'one size fits all' types of signs from the 1980's - either you have to wait for a sign to scroll three or four times to get anything useful, or transit authorities would shorten the readings to something unintelligible to make them fit (a bus to South Shore Plaza would become something like "236 SO SH PLZ").
Jim D.
>>> That said, I like the newer LED-type electronic destination signs which have the capability of displaying stacked routings, different letter sizes, etc. <<<
I will certainly second that thought. The roll signs are ok on the buses that still have clutches and gear shifts, but the LEDs are the future. Judging from the number of extraneous messages displayed (GOOD MORNING, HAVE A NICE DAY, etc.) they must be easy to program. I have not noticed a reliability problem with them in Southern California, but they are still relatively new and we have very little wet weather, so moisture will not be the problem it is in the Northeast.
Tom
I like the ROLLER SIGNS the best !!!
The major drawback with roller signs is the difficulty of cutting in new destinations. While in NY over the weekend, the destination was changed on the M104 to 2nd Avenue and 42nd Street instead of the usual 1st Avenue-United Nations.
Michael
sure they have thier drawbacks however when you see a bad digital sign it leaves a lot to be desired !!!
especially the constant back and fourth of the sign changing flashing like some Xmas tree !!!......lol !!!!
the roller signs made proper are simple and to the point ( my opinion again ) .....lol !!!
To put it very simply, electronic signs were adopted to save money. A roller sign can hold around 70 or 80 signs if mylar is used, 40-50 with linen. When you have a large bus fleet, replacing roll signs when a vehicle is transferred to a new division runs into lots of man-hours.
The basic problem with buses is that nobody has ever made an electronic sign that can withstand the constant pounding that a bus gives out. Electronic signs seem to work well on rail cars, perhaps because of less overall vibration.
You'd think some bright company would have figured out the problem by now and captured 90% of the sign market, but no.
Best advice for the bus operator: carry a large black marker and a roll of tape.
I saw this on the Whitestone Bridge a FEW Days ago. Why #4912 was doing on the Whitestone Bridge? It was not running X32 or Q44 for shoure.
That is the Queens route to and from Lodi, NJ (Atlantic Diesel).
Whitestone, Cross Bronx, GW Bridge, I-95, I-80, NJ Route 17
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Could it be possible that it was heading to Zerega? I think that's right near the Whitestone Br?
#4912 x32
That too! But I think it was Lodi ONLY becuase Zerega is loaded with the repower project.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Temporary TransiTALK
Hey folks..I was just checking out the message board as I was watching "The Simpsons" and Homer mentioned "Speed". The dialogus was something like this:
"It's kinda like that movie where there was a bomb on a bus; it would SPEED through town...and its SPEED couldn't drop below 50 MPH or the bus would explode...I don't remember the name of the movie but I think it was called "The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down".
Shortly after, Homer deboards from a bright green RTS full of orchestra players that read "Springfield Philharmonic" on ths sides. As he exits, he hears the theme from "Psycho" playing, runs away screaming, and as the bus pulls away, a lady is playing it on a violin....LOL. Too funny!
-Fred Donaher
"The Coach Potato"
Would a D40LF would show up on the #30 Line?
Stamford just got 31 of the D40LF's and the other 5 are going someplace else. So I got a FEW Questions.
1. Would a D40LF would show up on the K and F Lines?
2. What Engines do they have?
3. What color are the seats?
4. Where the other 5 D40LF's are going?
Thanks! :)
I have pics of the new CT Transit D40LF's that I will be posting tomorrow.
1) The D40LFs are being used on every line
2) Detroit Diesel Series 40E
3) Blue with a Pattern
4) The other 5 are headed to Stamford!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Ok. Thanks and would be nice to see photos of them.
Finally, new buses to replace those MCI's. Those MCI's are getting old. However, those MCI Nova Classics they should keep! I like those better.
Ray
The New Flyer Low Floor buses CT Transit has gotten are replacing the Scania buses from 1988. None of the MCI Classics, the earliest of which are from 1990, are being replaced yet. Last time I was up in Hartford, the 1990 MCI Classics appeared to be in very good shape, so they will probably be around a few more years while CT Transit tests the two hybrid buses they have on order.
I was taking an X1 to Staten Island Sunday. Would have been a great ride since it was rerouted for the Veterans Day parade it had a light lode of only 4 people (me and wife made 6) on her when we get down to the Battery.
SLAM at Washington street we see an X10 parked with its driver waving us down. The Brooklyn/Battery Tunnel is closed (Bush Lock) for the President visit to Ground Zero. The driver SHUTS down and parks saying he does not know how long we will sit here. He suggests we take the FREE Staten Island Ferry (yah what about my $3.00 and paying for other transport at St. George??) We have just missed the 2pm boat to Staten Island so my choice was to wait thinking even if I take the 2:30pm Boat I won't get to Eltingville until 3:45p or so and with the light load on the bus it would be a quick trip on S.I.
Overall we waited about a 1/2 hour, the next X1 (1/2 hour scheduled behind us) pulled up they let us into the tunnel.
My question to Bus folk, why did we pull over and wait. Why can't the bus be rerouted over the Manhattan Bridge??
Good question, that should be the case or even NJ for that matter. They knew the President would be in the city. I guess it was a Sunday so it was like a lay back day. LOL!
Ray
A frozen zone is a frozen zone. All access to areas near the President is completely cut off to all but pedestrians, who are stopped and questioned. Even if the bus were to be rerouted, it couldn't be.
Incidently, new seals have been placed on the luggage doors.
-Hank
Sorry Hank, traffic was moving fine, being diverted down Washington Street (no access to West St.). We could have gone around back over to the east side and up to the Manhattan Bridge.
I was walking last week to my barber shop in the 165th St Mall in Jamaica about two weeks ago. I forgot to mention it on BusTalk because I thought nothing of it. As I was walking by, I heard a Police officer say to look for anything suspicious. I saw a lot of Police officers (more than usual on a weekday morning around 9 A.M.) So, Im thinking a terrorist attack! If they blow-up the Jamaica Bus Terminal, would the buses sit on 165th St Mall OR sit on Merrick Blvd between 89th Av and 88th Av near the Phone company. Last time a bus was on 165th St Mall was the Q44 back in the 70's. I'm going back over there next week. Of course, I hope it does not happen but you never know. Yesterday, a plane crashed in the Rockaways (B129th St and Newport Av.....Q35 GBL). Also, I got friends who work in the terminal and bus drivers from all the depots who go in and out of there everyday. What do you guys think? Sorry to bring it up but you never know what the hell is going to happen next!
Ray
W T F!
Blow up Jamaica Bus Termianl? WHAT WOULD THEY GAIN BY BLOWING UP A MINOR BUS TERMINAL. What severing LI from NYC.....OOOOOOO TERROR! If they wanna hit hard, they'd have to hit the PABT or Newark Penn Station. Not some little shit terminal like Jamaica-Parsons Archer Terminal.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Thank you Ttevor. I feel much better now about getting my haircut in Jamaica.
Ray
I don't blame you. If I was afraid of terrorism at the barber shop, I would either get it cut in another borough or grow it down to my butt at that point!
-F.
That's what I'm saying!! LOL!
Ray
Ray, it's crazy out there but as my cousin said when returning from a flight to Florida, we must go forward without fear. If we fail that, the terrorists have won, and WE CANNOT LET THAT HAPPEN!!!
-F.
True, you are correct. I understand that completely! I can not be scared because we are Americans!!!! Thanks Fred!
Ray
Damned right.
-F.
A snippet of an email I received from a friend in QV Maintenance:
"We are supposed to be getting new coachs sometime soon, no date has been set though. MCI's like Brooklyn and Staten Island, the 45 footer's. Last week they brought one into the shop to see if would fit in the different areas. So far it looks good."
Interesting :-)
As I previously mentioned, MCI's will be coming to Queens Village, Jamaica and Casey Stengel sometime next year (no date has been set). The test bus (UP's 2774) that made its way around Queens passed most of the tests in all three depots. Once new buses are ordered and delivered, they will be assigned to the four Queens express routes.
As a side note, look for the Orion and Nova coaches (191 buses) to be converted to hard seaters once the new MCI's enter service. Again, further details are not yet available, so stay tuned.
Mark
It's really nice to have MCI over-the-road coaches in express service, but part of me can't help but think that it may be a bit of overkill to have them on all express routes. Also I'd say why not just let the remaining Orion/RTS express buses continue as they are and when they're due to be replaced - just buy the MCI's or whatever the TA is buy at that time.
just a thought.
Wayne
Or how about D4000s? They seats 49, compared to the 39 or 40 on the Orion and Nova Suburbans...
The TA can acquire them. They don't necessarily have to get 45-foot coach buses, they can get 40-foot Cruisers instead. That's just my idea...(also, maybe Bee-Line should get some D4000s too.)
Cleanairbus
The Nova RTS Suburbans and Orion5 Suburbans seats 44-45
Not NYC Transit's. NYCT's latest RTS express buses seat 39, and the Orions seat 42. The MCIs, on the other hand, seat 57.
David
I feel its a good idea to bring MCI's to Queens, and change the Orions and Novas to hard seaters. Only bad thing is for the people is they have to get use to having a narrower bus and only having one door.
Its a smart idea when you think about it, then the MTA doesn't have to worry about choosing what they want as the next transit model, when they can just convert what they have. They already know the MCI is a really good bus and has shown no problems, why take the time to research into another model or see another alternative gas bus.
Jay
The D-series is nearing the end of its production run according to an MCI salesman. Therefore, if the MTA wants to receive D-series buses, it needs to order and act now while the machinery and tooling still exist. The G-series is the replacement for the D-series. This is probably why they are in a hurry to see if those buses fit. The D-series buses will still be built until at least the end of 2002 because of NJT, but I doubt they will survive past then.
They were nice buses, but I would always love to see a little more power. It doesn't seem like they are carring the 450 horsepower motor.
They have to survive past 2002 because the NJT order last until 2004. So the end of 2004 is more like it.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
You have a good point.
Wayne
The reason we are NOT getting D4000s (40 Footers) is because all of the MCI 102-DLW3SS and D4500 Cruisers after Bus #2039 are ALL OPTION ORDER buses, meaning major change in specifications. That's even including the next 20 coming this month and 120 for next year.
That means that 270 of the existing 449 (That's including the death of #1998) are all option order buses. So when the smoke clears from the MCI D Series Order, we'll be looking at 180 Primary Order Buses with 410 Option Order buses.
This is also there reason why the buses are all looking alike for the most part with no real major updated changes (al la NJ Transit).
Regards,
Trevor Logan
No Major Changes.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
LOL...who is CNGBus? Is it me? OR is it someone else?
(Just wanna clear things up.)
I see what you mean concerning the MTA's MCI situation. When did #1998 die? I don't remember anything about that bus? DId it perish on Sept. 11th or was it already gone before then?
Cleanairbus
1998 died on 9/11 with the scores of people!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
does that mean the #9200 and #9300's that operate out of UP are becoming hard seaters?
Yes all those 1997 Nova RTS Suburbans will become hard seaters along with all the Orions which have Suburban seats.
Jay
Honestly I don't find it a good idea to have MCI's here in Queens. I like the Nova and Orion Suburbans on both express and local lines. I have ridden on the MCIs and I find them to be very narrow and slow on the open road but yet very smooth. If they want MCI's on Express Lines I can deal with them since I don't take Express Buses often. It will be unusual to see a bus like 626 on the Q46 with local seats. But yet it will be more comfortable since the aisles are very narrow. 3828 from MHV went from Express to local seating. I heard that bus 3818 has received a fresh coat of paint. Could it be possible that it received hard seats too?
1767 sure needs local seats-her Express seats are torn.
I guess I can say bring on the MCI's. But let's not see them on a local line-that will be pathetic.
Will there be another order or will they receive rejects from UP, YUK and/or CAS?
#2774 x68
#2064 x51
#2767 x63
#2765 x64
I wonder if the X32 will get an MCI in service there too?
Did you actually see those buses on the express routes?
Ray
Nope, but we will in the future.
#620 x68
All is not most of the 38xx Series RTSs at Manhattanville has been converted to hard 2x1 seats. I don't know if MJQ has done the same to thier units, and I know 126th still has a few (Unknown whether those were changed or not)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I understand converting the seats to hard seaters - however, I do not think they should waste the money in buying new seats, just pull the ones from scrapped busses, like the 4854-4899 when they get canned b/c they are 2x2 hard seaters.
By the way, what is going to be done with the suburban seats? Resell?
My personal opinion is to convert all the Orions and leave some of the Novas for lightly travelled routes or short routes - like the X18,20 on SI or X32 in Queens.
Converting the 3800s are a waste of money since they will be gone soon. Watch, next are the 1700s and 1800s of Manhattan and Queens to have their seats be replaced .
My prediciton on the existing seats is they'll probably reupholster them and put them up as extras for the MCI Cruisers as they are the exact same model and seat pattern. just in case a seat gets destroyed or something.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
We have hard seats on all new orders here in Roanoke; after years of plush soft seats, some local buttholes took it upon themselves to not only magic marker and slash the seats, but also rip the stuffing out of them. The result? Hard seats with fabric on all new bus orders. Then again, when I drove for Blacksburg, all buses had hard seats, with only the New Flyers ordered recently being an exception to the rule with fabric on the hard seats. Go figure...it's a college town.
-F.
There hasn't been a bus at M.S.B.A. with plush seats for at least the last 10 years! The last buses which were like that were #704 and #438, both 1970 Flxibles, scrapped before their time in 1992.
M.S.B.A. had a bunch of Flxible Metros from 1981 (the 700 and 900 series), as well as from 1984 which were the 1000 series. The last of them were retired in the summer of 1998 (a year after the Fishbowls) and I believe Jamaica buses were using theirs up until around the same time, when they got some newer RTS's from Queens Surface. They're nice buses, but I myself am partial to the GM and Flx NewLook.
MSBA did have Metro, but 700 series (and Jamaica Buses) buses were actually Grumman Flxible 870's.
Wayne
[There hasn't been a bus at M.S.B.A. with plush seats for at least the last 10 years! The last buses which were like that were #704 and #438, both 1970 Flxibles, scrapped before their time in 1992]
Buses 704 and 438 were ordered by Nassau County before MSBA was formed in 1973. 704 ran for Schenck and may have previously been a Mid-Island Transit bus; 438 ran for Hempstead Bus, which had the most Flxible new-looks in Nassau County.
The very first buses ordered by MSBA after the 1973 takeover were GM new-looks 105-112. They had very plush seats - blue express-type high back seats. I'm not 100% sure, but I think those 8 buses were an add-on to a NYC-TA express bus order. Some of the 8 ran in MSBA service until 1993.
ACK! SCRAPPED?!? Whatever for?
The only RTS Suburban coach left at 126th Street is # 3887. The last time I drove it, a few weeks back, it still had soft seats.
nyct has planned all along to eventually have an all mci express fleet. in the 1999-2004 five year plan this is stated with queens due to get mci buses by 2003. as far as converting nova and orion coaches to hard seats dont bet on it. in ulmer park most nova 9300 have asticker saying local on the front for yard personnel. i dont believe nyct will go to the expense of seat conversion.
The MTA is doing ALL of the Nova and Orion Soft Seaters into 2x2 Cut Resistant hard seaters. This is the reason behind buy from 120 up to 180 more MCIs to cover the existing fleet. Believe it, Orion #100-172 and Nova #9250-9349 will join the "REAL" ranks of being a local bus.
This will not happen over night, BUT it will happen!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I suppose that the TA would have no choice to convert those soft seaters to hard seats because at a certain point, the vandalism on the soft seats will be impossible to keep up with. I would like to see regular hard seats vs. the ones with the little cushion which are in the 1999 Nova's. Good concept, but lots of them look very cruddy.
I agree there, the thing is that MTA is not like NJT where seats get shampooed every 30 days, I don't even thing the MTA shampooed those seats since they have gotten into service. The MTA needs to institute such a program so that the seats can remain looking nice.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
believe me mta has never shampooed its so called shag seaters.let me know when you find an orion or nova suburban with a hard seat conversion. i predict you will wait a long time. as a recently retired b/o i know you cannot always believe what they say.
then what are they used for if not for seat conversion? I was on #9327 on the b64 2 days ago with the back seats ripped out. #9301 has SOL scratched into the back windows. Any idiot who decided to put express buses on local lines do not remeber when Ulmer Park did this with the #1800 series. They got scratched windows and seats. is this a sign of things to come?
B1-#4787
B64-#9302
then what are they used for if not for seat conversion? I was on #9327 on the b64 2 days ago with the back seats ripped out. #9301 has SOL scratched into the back windows. Any idiot who decided to put express buses on local lines do not remeber when Ulmer Park did this with the #1800 series. They got scratched windows and seats. is this a sign of things to come?
B1-#4787
B64-#4858
Due to the wording of the oroginal press release, there was some confusion about who is building what. This recent addition to the NJT website should clear things up greatly:
The four hybrid-electric cruiser buses will be built by Motor Coach Industries International of Des Plaines, Il. The three transit hybrid-electric buses will be built by ISE Research of San Diego, CA. The total cost of both orders is $8,866,735. NJ TRANSIT anticipates delivery of the first bus by January 2003. All buses will be delivered by spring 2005.
NJ TRANSIT Office of Government and Community Relations
November 2001
ISE Thundervolt 40 foot transit bus
The company uses shells provided by other bus manufacturers, as determined by the purchaser. The bus show in a New Flyer low floor, but they claim their drive system is compatible with both high and low floor buses. This gives a lot more credence to the speculation that NJT may ask them to use an RTS similar to what they already own so that they don't have to worry about parts other than the drive system.
just interested in your i.d. as 2 who made this bus ... flxible ?? ...!!!
This looks like a late 80's or early 90's Flxible Metro B or C.
Sure looks like a Flxible.
Either Flx or Grumman.
Nah, it's a Flxible Metro...probably 1990s. Grummans weren't offered with the later Excel-type windows seen on that coach; they either featured flush windows or featured oval-shaped "standee" windows toward the top, a la the NYCTA order.
-F.
The windows you see on that bus are not original. MTA/RTD's Flxible Metros came with the more standard full-sliding tinted windows seen on thousands of other Metros. MTA began retrofitting its Flxs (as well as 2000-2100-2200-2300-2400 series RTSs) with those strange transoms you see there. They really do not fit very well with the Metro styling.
True...I think the silver sashes suck on those..they would look better in black. And Flxible Metros look TERRIBLE without black around the windows...too plain for me!
-F.
That's a good question. It looks like a grumman Flxible. (Could it be the new MCI metro E?)
Oh PLEASE GOD let the MCI Metro become a reality one day....and may it have a Cummins ISL with Voith whiners! That would be the BEST NEW TRANSIT HANDS DOWN!!!!
-F.
could be a grumman flxible 870 . . . can't tell whether there's a flat panel between the headlights or not and whether that's a roof-mounted exhaust pipe or just a feature on the building in the background.
c
I would venture a guess that its a Classic
1988 Flxible Metro 40102-6C - fleet numbers 2500-2649
1989 Flxible Metro 40102-6C - fleet numbers 1800-1809, 2700-2764
1992 Flxible Metro 40102-6TL - fleet numbers 2900-2932
the exhaust pipe is on the roof ...
Many Flxibles have roof exhaust. You could order it from the factory either at the roof or below the bumper.
Yup...our 1986-87 Metros at Blacksburg Transit had that "car-pipe" exhaust...I don't like that as much. If I buy one when they retire, I will convert it to roof exhaust; how much is involved in that? Is there a lot of "meatball surgery" involved? Anybody know?
-F.
You people call yourselves bus fans?
Clearly, that is a Flxible Metro.
What might throw you is the windows; MTA has retrofitted many (if not all) of its Flxibles with silver-sashed transom windows that look very awkward on Flxibles, but they are still Flxible Metros nonetheless. MTA purchased several distinct orders of Metro Bs:
1988: Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-1 2500-2649
1989: Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-1 2700-2764
1989: Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-1 1800-1809 (CNG, retired)
1990: Flxible Metro B 40102-6-1 2800-2870
1992: Flxible Metro C 40102-6TL-1 2900-2932
...these in addition to the RTD 7500-7600-7700 series Grumman-Flxible 870s of the late 70s-early 80s.
No comment. How could anybody MISS that the bus was a Flx?
it cant be made by Flixible, the company went Chapter 11 in 1996. however, i did hear rumors they were making buses in china.
Very true; somehow the licensing for the name and some copied tooling made it there when a demo was sent in 1993. Most look basically like the stateside original but some are really off-the-wall, including a double-decker version and a low floor that looks like an RTS on acid. Very bizarre stuff in Hong Kong for sure.
-F.
Right on the nose! Where was that shot taken? Great buses!
-F.
Thank you ! right in front of my house montana street & lincoln avenue pasadna california 91103
MTA los angeles metro bus lin # 268 to the el montie bus station
Wow...very nice. Thanks for the info!
-F.
this bus operates undr the GREEN LINE metro station in los angeles it gos to LAX ( airport ) ....
HOW BOUT THIS XLNT SHOT TREVOR ???
Wow...GREAT shot of a LAX 35' Gillig! Those look nice in that scheme...my only gripe is that those look better with Alcoa wheels. Flx Metros and RTSes, on the other hand, are the opposite. They look GREAT with the white five-hole wheels.
-F.
for a long time here since 911 that was the ONLY way you could go in & out of LAX ...........................lol!!!
it is a free shuttle service ( parking costs a bit extra ) ....
>>> for a long time here since 911 that was the ONLY way you could go in & out of LAX <<<
A bit of an exaggeration. LAX banned private vehicles, but allowed many shuttles from various locations such as parking lots and hotels as well as taxi cabs.
Tom
it is true it has been somewhat relaxed since 911
this bus operates under the GREEN LINE metro station in los angeles it gos to LAX ( airport ) ....
HOW BOUT THIS XLNT SHOT TREVOR ???
this bus operates under the GREEN LINE metro station in los angeles it goes to LAX ( airport ) ....
HOW BOUT THIS XLNT SHOT TREVOR ???
I went to Queens today actually making recordings of some of the bus sounds (I got some weird looks from people!). I took the N21 for a slow Cummins ride to Queens. I got off at Francis Lewis and took a Q76 (just a regular Orion with the S50) and got off at Horace Harding. I went to the bus stop for what I thought was the Q88. But the sign only said Q30. I looked at the map and realized I got off too soon! THe Q88 runs several blocks to the south at that point!
A Q30 Jamaica came at that point and I got on (it was packed so I couldn't enjoy the felt seats). About 1/2 mile west of there at 188th is when the Q88 runs along Horace Harding. There was a Q88 sitting there at the stop, and it pulled away just as we pulled in (don't ya just hate that!). So I was in for a wait. Three Q30s and one Q17 passed before the Q88 to Queens Center came. Fortunately it wasn't packed. It was an older RTS bus with hard seats, but the engine sounded like a Series 50. I guess the 6V-92's were taken out, this was a repowered bus. The Series 50 is one damn good engine though. It sounds good in an RTS with pretty good pick-up. It does shake alot though. Once I got to Queens Center (2 hours since I left home!)after the mall I walked to Grand ave in Elmhurst. A short walk BTW, I see the old Stern's has become a Target, Best Buy, and some other stuff. Not one Q60 passed me. Then when I got to Wendy's I saw three come in a row.
I started taping some buses there, two RTS's on the Q58, one with a series 50 and the other an older one with the 6V-92. Then I took a noisy slow G train (must've had a flat or something)to Forest Hills. I saw some Triboro RTS's there. I thought all DOT RTS's used Series 50 but these sounded like 6V-92 (and they don't look so great either). Also saw a CNG RTS with the all too familiar POS Cummins L10G. Taped those sounds as well. Then I took a Q65A for a pretty fast ride to Main street (was an RTS w/s50). Then a CS Orion on the Q20B to Flushing. I had 289 and it was re-powered. Series 50 sounds good in there. At Flushing I taped some more buses, including those air starters. I was right by CS Orion 13x something when it started up. That one still uses a 6V-92.
Then I took the N21 bus home (thank God a Series 50G bus) for a fast ride back. I wonder are there any sites for bus sound clips? If anybody might be interested I could transfer them to a .wav or .mp3 file and upload (once I figure out how).
the best way to send by E-Mail is compressing a .MP3 file by .ZIP (Pc/Mac) Or .ACE (Pc)
Nice...bet the Series 50 sounds different with that engine as opposed to how it does in our 1994 Gilligs. You should get some different sounds though; I have ever heard what an RTS sounds like with a 6v92. I have recordings of that engine from our 1991 Gilligs and retired 1988s here at home and hope to tape more.
-F.
[BTW, I see the old Stern's has become a Target, Best Buy, and some other stuff.]
The old Stern's, which was a Macy's when A&S was still around, is now called Queens Place. Not only does it have the Best Buy and Target (who has shopping cart escalators), but it has an Outback Steakhouse and some other stuff.
Last year I remember seeing a RTS GMC bus on Fresh Pond Road with no numbers and no depot patch. It looked like a broken down NYC 81' or 82' RTS GMC. It was smoking black clouds all over the place. I have no idea where it came from, by it looked like it was going to break down when I sen it! I will never figure this out.
Add 8320 to the list. Spotted on Linden Blvd and Utica Ave this afternoon.
B46#8320Limited
Add 8371 and 8392 to that list-saw them both on the Q46 today. More 50 mph and below buses. Just what QV needs.
#8392 Q46
#8371 Q30
A few hours ago I saw 8136 on the Q54 (FP).
I seen the 8155 repowered today on Palmetto St./Wyckoff Av. . Thank you Bill for keeping me updated. Here's what we have.
Fresh Pond:8135, 8136, 8141, 8155, 8170, 8171 (6 of 41)
B13- RTS Nova #9578
-
All RTS 85'GMC's must Die!
8016 is back. Saw it Friday nite on the Q58. No depot sticker in the rear left corner........8131 atill in back of the depot where the M goes to grade north of FP Rd......also back there are 4732, 4734, & 4739. I have a feeling their engines are unusable. Saw 4734 on the Q54 last week in front of Met M line station, after it picked up it's load, it was barely able to get out of its'own way!
Here at ENY:
8091,8096,8097,8117,8120,8340,8346. I think 8104 will be next. Just saw 8097 @ Eastern Pkwy and St. Johns Pl last night on the soon to be former B40.
#8091 repowered on B82 on Tuesday 11/13/01.
Add #8249, #8250, #8266, #8269, & #8275 on the list. I spotted at Amsterdam Ave & 161th Street on M101 while i was doing Surface Evenness early this morning.
Peace
David J.
In my last visit to DC- I saw BARELY a handful of Flxibles in service,just Orions. What does WMATA do, run only the Orions on weekends? That policy reminds me of a policy back in the early 80's when Metro kept their AM Generals and the ex-Shirley Highway V8 GM's off the streets on weekends in Virginia, and kept Bladenburg's AMG in the yard at the same time. Then around '82 or so, WMATA started to run them on weekends, especially the 1101-1130 T8H5307's on all the Va.routes. The Bladensburg AMG came out to play on a couple of occasions. Now is Metro going to treat the Flxibles the same way?
That's actually a very good question. I haven't really been in DC very recently, but I've seen basically Flxibles in the city, the newer ones in the suburbs. But, WMATA is continuing to get new Orions every year...
I really don't dislike the Orions although I'll never like them as much as the Flxible Metro. Reality is that with the Flxible Metro not being in production the number of Orions at WMATA is growing. In addition to those Orion V's purchased in 1992 and 1998 - last year WMATA added more Orion V's and VI's to the fleet. They also added some Orion II buses in 1999. Last years' new buses allowed WMATA to retire the remaining GMC and Flxible new looks as well as the GMC RTS. WMATA is currently rehabbing many of their Flxible Metro's. I guess like any agency WMATA will uses it's newest buses during off-peak hours.
Wayne
True..very true. Also, I agree; i will NEVER like the Orions as much as the Flx Metro.
-F.
Yeah. I bet they'll still be around for a good while, though. I mean, look at the RTSs and the New Looks, just being retired last year. I'll always think of the WMATA with Flxibles, though.
Same here. WMATA is Flxible country and I hope it stays that way for a LONG time.
-F.
NO!!!!!! NO GOD NO!!!!!! I'm gonna CRY if that happens.
-F.
today i seen 5 new flyer on the 52.
2 on the 44.
3 on the 38.
total of new flyer on septa. =51 5451 was spotted on the 44 5th market
BUS 8300 with Yukon stickers was seen idle and 149th street in 3rd Ave the Bronx about 9:00 this morning
Maybe they training with rookies B/O or something. I seen couple buses from Manhattan, Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn & Staten Island training at Soundview Area, White Plain Rd, Story Ave, Caste Hill Ave, Bruckner Expwy, Zerega Ave Because they training at Zerega Ave Base Shop.
David J.
8300 probably on a training mission
training bus
I have seen 8187 on the LIE at 108 St 1 time repowered and used for training purposes. 8300 I know for a fact is a training bus. There's a pic of it on transitalk.com if I'm not mistaking.
#8187 Training
#8300 Training
saw #1826 ALIVE. It was on the M42 today. Also saw #3474 on the M4 route(half new windows,half old ones).
Also, FINALLY caught sight of #1804-the New York Bus Service MCI. Looks mighty sharp. My question is, is Liberty Lines getting the same model and how come Bee-Line Bus never got this MCI model?
[how come Bee-Line Bus never got this MCI model]
Bee Line has not needed any replacement or additional buses for its Manhattan express service in quite a long time; hence, no need for this model. As Bee Line's current buses are newer than the Jersey Cruisers still running for NJ Transit, I suspect it will be some time before replacements are needed.
Well, They are 14 and 15 years old according to the years those 102A2's were built.(1986-1987) They will need to be replaced sooner than later. That would make them the same age as NJ Transit's MC9B's (5xxx series). I wonder when they will get replaced? As for Liberty Lines Express, I hear they will get MCI's also but will they be 40 foot or 45 foot? I look foward to future and what it holds.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
Correction on the years!
15 and 16 years old.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
I will be away starting tomorrow, arriving back home Saturday night. I probably won't check BusTalk till Sunday. Talk to you all then!
According to the Urban Transit Roster, Gun Hill has 3 Orion V buses, 402, 403 and 405. Yesterday, while visiting The Bronx to photograph some of the redbirds before they disappear, I saw both 402 and 405 running on the Bx29. I don't know whether that is the only route out of Gun Hill on which they are found, but I did find it interesting that I saw two of the three on that particular route.
The Orions are used only on the Bx29, why? I don't know yet, but as soon as I get a credible answer, I'll get back to you.
Wassup with 7560-the Orion 7? Is she still being tested on the BX28 or did she go back to Orion for remodifications? Also did anybody see it, ride it or even get a pic of it? I'd like to see it.
Thanks.
#7560 bx28
Also the bus being numbered 7560 seems like it's another RTS Remanufactured Bus.
So THAT's why I saw one on the BX29 both on Bartow Avenue and at Pelham Bay! At first I thought the Q44 somehow got lost after coming over the Bridge. Except for the BX21, Orions are absent in the northeast Bronx. It did stand out in heavily RTS Co-op City.
Maybe they're on the BX29 because of the many stretches on the route that allow high speed. But then, are Orions any faster than RTS?
Every once in a while, Philly gets that nasty, foot-deep snowstorm that screws up the city. If we get one, and knowing the reputation of our city government for scewing up the snow removal, will SEPTA keep the Low-floors running in foot deep snows? Will riders on the lines with the low floors be screwed out of bus service because the low-floors can`t handle snowy streets, just like during the time when SEPTA pulled the PCC's of the streets during heavy snowstorms, and let the trolley riders take buses or fend for themselves? Inquiring minds want to know!
Most likey they will pull them off the streets. The MTA dose it now when there 8in of snow on the ground in NYC.
Robert
So far, I haven't seen any Flyers with ads on them yet, even though SEPTA has a virtually smooth backside for the applications of ads on the rear of the Flyers. If you see a Flyer with ads please put a pic up ASAP!
It probably may take a while. No El Dorados have ads on the backs, excpet for the few advertising SEPTA.
There are a few Eldorados out of Victory Garage with RCN ads on the back of them, the only Eldorados with ads on them. Maybe SEPTA can wrap them in order to get some ad revenue out of them.
Some NABI's that have recently been overhauled are completely ad-free as well. Perfect time for pics of that nice new white trim.
Usually, when SEPTA gets new buses, or when older buses are overhauled, it takes about a month or so to get ads up on the buses.
I doubt you'll see any side ads on the ElDorados, since there is virtually no room to put ads on that particular bus, except for the handful of Red Arrow buses which have the RCN ads (RCN is a cable outfit, BTW).
BTW, it wasn't until the mid-1990's when SEPTA allowed exterior advertising on it's buses. This is why you'd see pictures of RTS and Neoplans from their first few years of operation without any ads.
Yes, I remember those days when they didn't have those exterior advertisements, and the Neoplans had that jagged back panel. Did they turn that around for the advertisments?
SEPTA put a smooth metal cap over the jagged back panel of the NEOPLANS.
I've been noticing side ads on the left of several WMATA Orion VI's in No. VA lately. I think its an ad for an energy company. The first time I saw was when I was driving by one and it took me by surprise so I couldn't tell. I've also seen them the last couple of nights, but the signs are dark blue and it was dark out, but I saw something about energy in the wording. Between that ad and the banner on top, its kind of distracting. Its even better when its a bus that advertises the next bus technology because they put that ad on both sides in the windows for NextBus, one on the back window, then the regular revenue generating ad on the back, this new side ad and the banner on top. Looks like a clown bus.
Saw her heading westbound on Atlantic Avenue towards Manhattan. Could it be she was deadheading for the B25 or B45 out of Downtown Bklyn?(Highly doubt it) Or is this the next bus to get repowered at Zerega?
B42#8104
As I was on my last vacation till spring last week, I set out to ride some of those routes that (a) run in rural areas where a bus seems out of place; (b) run on posh, narrow residential streets where a bus seems out of place; (c) run in hilly areas; (d) operate with large weekend headways but more frequent weekday ones; (e) I've never ridden before. All three expeditions (the other two detailed in subsequent posts) required a 6:00 AM start so I would have enough time to do a lot and get home for dinner.
THIS ALL TOOK PLACE ON WEDNESDAY, 11/7:
-Parked at Astoria & 82nd, where there's a choice of five routes to subways (Q19, 19A, 33, 47, M60). 19A RTS w/LED signs and olive green seats came fresh out of Triboro Garage; took to Ditmars & 31st.
-'W' and '4' to Yankee Stadium.
-BX6 Orion w/hard seats to Broadway & 155th. Road work forced strange looping detour onto Macombs Bridge, which was reduced to one very narrow lane in each direction; hence, painfully slow stop-n-go ride (with typical older Orion jerking, squeaking brakes I live with daily on Stengel routes) to Saint Nicholas.
-After 15+ minute wait for uptown M4/5, walked to 157th; '1' to 181st.
-Walked to Broadway & 181st; BX7 RTS 9100-series to Broadway & 231st. Nearly mile-long downhill from 181st to nearly Dyckman. Will have to take Tylenol and ride 1999 Orion on M100 uphill to hear engine sounds.
-BX10 RTS 9100-series to Riverdale & 254th. Amazing cliffside uphill on Johnson Avenue, then treacherous hairpin on Kappock; area barely recognizable as Bronx. Decent speed on Hudson service road.
-BX7 RTS 9100-series to 231st & Corlear. Another impressive downhill on Riverdale from 237th to 231st.
-BX1 Artic 5400-series to Concourse & Bedford Park. Passed Artic 1000-series going other way; I thought the older, hard-seated Artics were all in Manhattan.
-BX26 RTS 8000-series through tunnel under Concourse, stunning waiting crowd. A couple of us ran up to bus stopped at light at Valentine Avenue and rapped on door, only to be ignored by driver. We then noticed oil truck blocking eastbound Bedford Park service road
between Villa & Concourse. I walked back to Jerome to wait for next BX26, an RTS 9200-series. Told driver that many (very angry) people were waiting at inaccessible stop; he stopped at Valentine, honked and waited for everyone to run over. Rode through fun, quarter-mile stretch of winding Kazimiroff Boulevard through Bronx Park and over river to Allerton & Bronx Park East.
-Explored Bronx Botanical Gardens (Wednesday's free) for a couple hours, then rode BX55 Artic 5300-series up Webster from Bedford Park to Gun Hill.
-BX28 RTS 9400-series to Baychester & Bartow. Lunched in Bay Plaza.
-QBX1 Orion 400-series to Pelham Bay CLOCKWISE via Hutch service road, E section (is that Section 1 or 5?), obscure single-family enclave by Amtrak ROW. I thought off-peak QBX1s always looped the other way thru Co-op; every time I've taken it out of Pelham it's gone the reverse of the way it went now.
-Walked off lunch thru Pelham Bay Park to Spencer Estates, another obscure single-family neighborhood uncharacteristic of Bronx image. At Ampere & Research (small sign hanging on pole with 'Bus Route' and arrow to guide confused drivers), BX14 RTS 8800-series thru narrow, winding streets to Pelham Bay.
-Boarded '6' with intent to returning to 59th Street and 'N'/'W', but train went OOS at Westchester Square due to unruly dismissed Lehman HS students. Got BX40/42 RTS 5300-series to West Farms Square along never-seen divided section of Tremont along Amtrak ROW. Rickety-looking girder bridges carry Unionport and White Plains Roads (and Artic routes BX22 and 39 respectively) over tracks.
-'5' and 'N' to Astoria Boulevard.
-Narrowly missed Q19, so went diagonally across Astoria/31 intersection to M60 stop. It, along with the next lane to the left, were taken up by an ad-hoc truck inspection station. Cops and DOT agents were flagging down selected trucks coming off Triboro, weighing them on some kind of scale and checking manifests while other trucks zoomed right by- no basis of selection by size of vehicle, either. We asked an agent if the bus would be able to stop. He jokingly suggested we walk to the next stop, which happens to be ten blocks east at Steinway! After ten minutes and no other Q19s, RTS 9000 pulled up in the next available lane and we had to weave around several stopped trucks to board. Throughout this whole episode, we were all shrugging and mouthing "What the f-?" to each other.
-Off at Astoria & 82nd, drove home, went to sleep till awakened by Q34 honking double-parked motorist on one-lane divided street outside window five minutes later.
Details about other expeditions later-
[BX1 Artic 5400-series to Concourse & Bedford Park. Passed Artic 1000-series going other way; I thought the older, hard-seated Artics were all in Manhattan]
1072-1109 are at Kingsbridge. 1000-1071 are in Manhattan at Quill.
How does one go about getting a CDL Class B for driving buses?
What is involved - tests, driving, etc?
Let me know for all that are bus drivers in NY.
get the manual at DMV. Read it, take permit test, for bus - make sure you take the test for passenger endorsement as well.
If you are applying for a B/O test, you may want to wait to take your raod test with TA/OA, cuz it's free. Otherwise, take your permit and sign up at a driving school and pay some cash tp take the driving course plus more money for the road test.
It's not free. The road test license fee is $40, however the NYCTA schedules the road test for you, and you use their bus. You actually make a stop at the DMV while in training class, along with the other operator-trainees who are with you to schedule your road test. I believe this is part of "Day 3", but I could be mistaken. It's been a while :-)
If you plan to drive for the NYCTA, you must not have more than 3 points on your license. Your license must be in effect for at least 3 years prior to your hiring. The permit to obtain is the CDL Class B with Air Brake and Passenger endorsements- no restrictions. Oh, and of course- no felony convictions, etc. etc. etc..
I'm not sure what the fees would be if you went on your own, but you would still have to pay the $40 road test fee, in addition to the cost of the bus, instruction, etc.
HTH?
Yes i neglected to mention the $40 ROAD TEST FEE.
I'm trying to help out a buddy who needs either train or bus transit between Clinton & Oradell NJ. Is anyone aware of a way to
accomplish this trip without connecting via NYC or Hoboken?
Not really. There really isn't that much in the way of bus or rail service to Oradell that doesn't go to NYC or Hoboken. There's the NJT 165 bus to the PABT, there's Red & Tan service from Oradell to either the PABT or GWB Terminal, the Pascack Valley Line (weekdays only to Hoboken) and there's the 762 Hackensack-Paramus line.
Likewise, there is only bus service from Clinton to NYC (Trans-Bridge via it's Allentown Line) and very limited weekday rail service from Clinton to Newark (Raritan Valley Line). Trans-Bridge has a park-n-ride lot on NJ 31.
New Jersey Transit opened a Transit Shoppe in Newark Penn Station last week. It is similar to the New York City Transit Shop, except in my opinion it has more stuff.
They have a website, which shows some of the stuff there. It was on the website that I saw that they were selling a National Cash Register Ticket Machine that used to be on the old Public Service Buses. Here's a picture of it from njt's webpage. They want $149 for it. They have about 8 of them that they found in storage. They have seen better days, and it is unlikely that they would work if plugged into a dc source. They have one on display in the shop. I passed on it, but I was surprised and happy to see it. They always fascinated me.
http://www.njtransit.com/an_transitshop_category.jsp?id=23
The shop is pricey. Strangely they were selling a couple of Greyhound driver's caps for $19.99. They can be bought from Greyhound direct at the Port Authority at the Greyhound food place on the departing bus level for $12.99
They also had a New Jersey Transit MC 9 commuter bus made in China for $20, which also seemed a bit high.
They have a lot of books, videos, Lionel stuff, jackets, caps, pcc models, and a lot of kid stuff.
I bought one last month from the online Transit Shoppe. They are totally inoperable, and even if wired, wouldn't work without a driver key. It's still pretty cool to have. My dad drove for PS in the 60s and loves it. My mom never drove at all so she always took the bus, and she cracked up laughing at it - she even reached for an imaginary "ticket".
although i hardly ever rode the buses in jersey, i was always intrigued by how those machines worked...
they were a black monster that spit out tickets...
how did they work??... would the machine figure out how much the fare would be between zones??
i was talking with one of the people in the shop... he suggested that the machine could be gotten back into shape... i suppose if there was someone who worked on them for public service, he might be able to try to restore it mechanically... i suppose the need for a key could be over-ridden by someone who knew the machine...
it must have been a real kick when your father and mother first saw them...
They worked like a standard cash register. The driver had to KNOW what the correct fare was, because all he/she did was punch in the buttons for the zone numbers, the fare amount, and fare type. The "from" fare buttons stayed down at all times until the driver changed them.
One nice thing the drivers who used both the old NCRs and the electronic register miss dearly - the old box had a "repeat" lever. So if three or four people got on at the same stop, all going to the same place and paying the same fare type, the driver only entered all the info once. For the other passengers, the driver simply hit the repeat button, and it would create the identical ticket as the last one registered.
I'll say this... that farebox weighs a ton. Solid metal construction. I guess that's how it survived 50 years of service, and another 10 sitting in a warehouse.
As for getting them to work, NJT actually was using them for a different purpose once they were retired. When a driver retired, they were making some of them into lamps, wiring them with 110V AC as a "gold watch" type gift, although I don't know if that allowed the actual register to work as well.
thanks for the explanation... i thought that the machine figured out the fare from the zones punched...
speaking of heavy, i have an old hand cranked national cash register that weighs over 100 pounds... it works... i think i paid about $20 for it about 20 years ago...
i wonder if the retired drivers would have preferred a gold watch instead of the machine.
B13 And B18 Combination ,,to be called the B13
Implementation Spring 2002
New areas to be discussed only----
Conselyea and Graham Av via Conselyea,Graham Av,Metropolitan Av,Bushwick Av,Flushing Av
(returning via Flushing Av,Bushwick Av,Conselyea Av),
,Wyckoff Av,Palmetto Av,St Nicholas Av,Gates Av,Forest Av, 67 Av,Fresh Pond Av,Myrtle Av,61 st Cooper Av , Cypress Hills St
,,regular route ,then
Euclid Av,Linden Blvd,Elderts Lane,Stanley ,GPO,Stanley Av,Crescent St,Cozine ,Av,Fountain Av,to Developemental Center,,Returning via FOuntain av,Flatlands Av,Crescent St,Stanley Av,,,GPO,,Stanley Av,Elderts Lane (returning via Cypress Hills St,Cooper Av,62 St Myrtle Av,Fresh Pond Av,Putnam Av,Forest Av, Gates Av,Wyckoff Av)
-----------------------------------------------
B40 and B78 combination
Implementation Spring 2002
To be called the B78
From Woodhull Hospital at Flushing and Broadway via Broadway ,Ralph Av,East 98 St,Clarkson Av,Remsen Av,Ralph Av, Mill Av,Avenue U ,,Flatbush Av,Av V,Flatbush Av,and Stand,,Returning via Flatbush Av,Avenue U ,,Mill Av,,and same
-------------------------------------------------
X27 and X28 Midtown Direct Service--
Emergency Implementation
To be called the X42 and the X38
Express Route X37 to Midtown ---
from Shore Rd and 3rd Av via Shore Rd,,Bay Ridge Av,,3rd Av,Gowanus Exp,Tunnel ,West St,Battery Park Underpass ,FDR Drive,East 23 St,Madison Av to terminate at 57th Street.
Exress Route X37 to Bay Ridge---
From 57 th Street and Madison Av,via 57th Street,5th Av,23 street ,FDR Dr,Underpass West St,Tunnel ,Gowanus Expressway ,Wakeman Place, 3rd Av,Bay Ridge Av,Shore Road,3 Av,Marine Av,4th Av,to Terminate at Shore Road.
Express Route X27 ---Combined Trips to Midtown ---
From Shore Rd and 3rd Av via Shore Road ,Bay Ridge Av,3rd Av,Gowanus Exp,Tunnel ,West St,Battery Place ,State St,Water St,Pearl St Frankfort St,FDR Dr,Houston Street,Sixth Av,23 street,Madison Av,to terminate at 57 st,When CHurch St reopens,,normal routing will resume.
Express route X27 Combination to Bay Ridge---
From 57th Street and Madison Av via 57 st ,5 Av,Broadway ,17th Street,UNion Sq East,Broadway ,Houston St,Allen St,Pike St,South St,Wagner Place,Pearl St,Water St,State St,Battery Place,West St,Tunnel Gowanus Exp,Wakeman Place,3rd Av,Bay Ridge Avenue ,Shore Road,3rd Av,Marine Av,4 Av,to terminate at SHore Road,,When Broadway Reopens ,-will resume normal Routings via Broadway to Battery Place.
Express Route X38 to Midtown ---
From Cropsey and Canal Av via Cropsey Av,14 Av, 86 st,Gowanus Exp,Tunnel ,West St,Battery Pk Underpass,FDR Drive ,23 St ,Madison Av,to terminate at 57 street.
Express route X38 to Bensonhurst ---
From 57 street and Madison via 57 st,,5th Av,23 street,FDR Drive,Battery Underpass,West St,Tunnel ,Gowanus Exp,86 st,14 avenue,Cropsey Av,to terminate at Canal Avenue
Express route X28 Combination Trips to Manhattan ---
From Cropsey Av and Canal Av via Cropsey Av,14 Av,86 St ,Gowanus Expressway Tunnel ,West St,Battery Place,State St,Water St,Pearl St,Frankfurt St,FDR Drive,Houston St, 6th Av,23 St,Madison Av,to Terminate at 57 St.Selected trips will start at Sea Gate at Surf Av,and West 37 St,,In addition ,,when Church Av reopens,,X28 will resume
Express Route X28 Combination Trips to Sea Gate---
From 57 Street and Madison Av,via 57 St,5th Av,Broadway ,17 street,Union Square East ,Broadway ,Houston St,Allen St,Pike Street,,South Street,Wagner Place,Pearl St,Water St,State St,Battery Place,West St,Tunnel ,,etc etc,,,Cropsey A,to terminate at Canal Av...Selected trips will terminate at Sea Gate at Surf Av and west 37 st.
--when Bway opens ,,will remume normal routing.
Questions and comments on the B40&B78 combo:
1. Will the new B78 become a 24/7 bus like the B40?
2. How come only terminating at Woodhull Hospital and not all the way to Williamsburg?
3. Which depot will operate the B78, ENY or FLA?
4.What will replace the B40 Liberty Avenue branch?(I think I know the answer to that one.)
The new B78 will definitely be a duplicate of the B46 now......
This and the B13/18 combo was long overdue. Lets hope it does not turn out to be a B82 fiasco.........
it duplicated the b12 and the b46
The new B78 will actually duplicate the B15 and the B46.
The people of Conselyea St. may bitch and moan about the B13 coming down that street. It will pass a church and school as it turns left from Bushwick Ave./Woodpoint Rd. Even though it will only travel Conselyea St. for 2 blocks, with the "stand" at Conselyea/Graham, it is a very narrow street. That was one reason it was taken off Devoe St. a few years ago and rerouted onto Grand St., which was not a good idea either. I'm afraid the attitude will be: we don't care where your run the bus, just don't send it onto my block!
I stand corrected: they could be no stops on Conselyea St, and the "stand" could be left at Graham/Metropolitan.
Implementation Emergency
Selected X12 trips will be relabeled X42 serving Midtwon .
Exoress route X42 to Midotwn ---
From Richond Terr and South Av via South Av,Forest Av,Richmond Av,Deppe Place,Watchoque ,Victory Blvd,Slosson Av,to SIE ,VZ Bridge,onto Gowanus Ex,tunnel ,West St,Underpass,FDR, Houston St,Lafeyette St,4th Av,onto UNion Square East<,Park Av,south ,onto 25 st,Madison Av ,57 to end at 11 av.
Express Route X42 Mariners Harbor---
From 57 St and 11 av via 57 st ,,5 av Broadway ,17 st,Union Square East All X14 trips wil service Midtown as follows
Express Bus route X14 to Midtown ---
From Castleton Av and Jewett Av via Castleton Av,Port Richmond Av,Forest Av,Manor Road,Martling Av,Clove Road,NarrowS Road,South Express Bus Route X14 to Port richond ---
From 57 st and 11 av via 57 st,5 av,23 street ,Avenue C,FDR ,Underpass ,West St,Tunnel ,Gowanus ,VZ Bridge SIE,HylanBlvd Exit,Narrows Road North Selected Southbound X17 Trips--
will operate to Staten ISland as Follows
Express Bus Route X17 to Hugenot---
from 57 st 3av via esat 57 st,5 av,42 st,9 av, 41 st,Dyer Av,Bus Lane to Lincoln Tunnel ,NJ 495 ,Exit 16 to Tpke ,leave at exit 13,Goethels Bridge,to SIE ,Richmond Av,Richmond Hill Road,,Marsh Av,Platinuim Av,Richmond Av,Arthur Kill Road,Arden Av,Drumgoole ROad West and Hugunot av,to end Woodrow Road
All South Bound X21 and X22 Trips
will operate to Staten Island as follows---
+Express route X21 to Pleasent Plaains---
via 57 and Park Av via 57 st ,Lexington Av,42 st,9 av,41 st,Dyre Av Bus Lane,495 ,enter Tpke exit 16 leave at exit 13 ,Goethels Bridge,West Shore Exp,,Arthur Kill Rd,Rossville Av,Woodrow Road, Bloonmingdale Road,,Amboy Road,to end at Bedell Street
Express route X22 to Tottenville---
from 57 st and Park Av,,via 57 same to Goethels Bridge,West Shore ,AKR Road,Rossville Av,WOodrow Road,Bloomingdale Av,Amboy Rd,,Craig Av,to end at Hylan Blvd.
All South Bound X31 Trips will operate as follows
Express route X31 to Eltingville ---
from 57 st and Park Av,,same to Goethels Bridge,SIENote ,,all changes to Express routes in Part 1 and Part 2 are reflecting the Sept 11 2001 WTC Incidents
Westbound Buses end at Myrtle Av and Flatbush Av,Returning via Flatbush Av,Tillary St,Park Av,Navy St and Eastbound On Myrtle Av
M27 and M50 ---westbound via 50 st,,end at 2nd av,,returning via 2 Av and 49 st westbound
M104 and the M42
ending at East 42 st and 2 av,returning via 2 av,39 st ,3 av and Westbound on 42
M66 buses ending at Columbus av and 62 st return via 62 street ,Amsterdam Av and regular Eastbound Service
Much more to follow regarding the
X25 X90 and the M9 NEW ROUTINGS
Took a few bus rides on Staten Island today. All the buses were 6xxx Orion V's with the felt seats. First bis I took was the S79 from Bay Ridge to New Dorp. The ride went pretty well, the diesel Orion V's run pretty good. At New Dorp I stopped off where I went into Sedutto's (It's a an ice cream place) and got a yogurt. I wish they were still in Great Neck, but for now that is the only place to get their delicious ice cream and yogurt.
Then I took an S78 down to Tottenville. Once you get to Eltingville and beyond (especially by Wolf's Pond and Mount Loretto) it feels like you are out east on LI. I haven't been out that way in quite some time, I forgot how rural it is. Like those large high weed fields, they remind me of the south shore of LI. The bus ride was pretty fast, it wasn;t crowded and we didn't make too many stops. I got off at Sprague av and walked down to the waterfront. It gives you a nice view of NJ and Sandy Hook. It was a very mild, almost late summer-like day today also. I took the S78 going back from there to Eltingville. The ride went OK until around the Hougenot st area. This was around 1pm but apparently the damn school kids let out from a private school nearby. The first bus stop was mobbed with kids. They came on and then one of the kids got the back door to open, the rest of them went on through the back door!! The driver didn't even attempt to stop them, but then again riding a packed bus in those conditions I don't blame them for not wanting to pay!
At the next stop an even larger mob, but we were full and passed them by (they were not happy). I struggled to get off at Eltingville where kids were blocking the rear door. There really needs to be more service over there, there were no extra buses and personally the S59 should run to Tottenville all day, it needs it with those kids. I was glad to get off at Eltingville where I caught the S79 to the SI Mall.
Going back I took the S79 from the mall to Bay Ridge. The ride went pretty slow, lots of stops and it got pretty packed (reminded me of the N20/21 crowd) by the time we got near the bridge. By the time we got to Bay Ridge 3 S79 buses caught up to ours. The SI buses could run a little more frequently, especially the locals. Mainly the S78 and 79 need more frequency, and the 59 should run to Tottenville from 5am to 10pm.
All in all though the buses in SI are fun. But taking 90 minutes to get from SI mall to Bay Ridge is a bit too much, next time I'll take the ferry and SIR. Other notes include seeing 2 Command MCI classics with "SPECIAL" destination signs parked along Hylan Blvd.
I've done that trip before too. However, I took an MCI-X17 to the SI Mall and walked around Yukon Depot. Then took the S59 to the SIRR to Tottenville-walked around there and retraced my steps back to the SI Mall b/c I wanted to ride an RTS rather than an Orion. I took the S61 to the Ferry which most of the buses in SI go to. Ride from SI Mall to the Ferry end to end was approximately 45 minutes.
Another time I went-I got off the S53 cause it got too crowded and took the SIRR to the ferry and took the ferry to the 4 train.
Much quicker than the S79 to the R.
#8312 S61
#6199 S59
#1939 X17
Staten Island is a nice place to ride buses if you've got the time, and is best done on a weekday schedule. Many routes, especially in the southwest, run on some secluded rural stretches of road where a city bus seems very out of place- and can go much faster than accustomed.
Don't expect much variety- the overwhelming majority of the equipment on local routes is 1999 Orions, which I thought for a long time was the ONLY local model on the Island. This past Monday, I took a long expedition myself and discovered there are also older, hard-seated Orions and even RTS. A look at Trevor Logan's rosters indicates Yukon, which only serves three local routes- the 55/56, 61 and 79, does indeed have a few older RTS. Maybe only 1999 Orions run on weekends, when I've been more likely to be on the Island, and the older stuff is kept in the depot.
Not that anyone asked, but below are the details of last Monday's
excursion. With one exception, every S.I. bus was a '99 Orion.
-8:10 JFK out of Whitehall.
-S40 to Port Richmond. First time I ever saw raw industrial underbelly of North Shore- shipyards, old greasy spoons- broken up by the new stadium and palatial-looking Snug Harbor. Obviously seasoned driver zoomed around many of the sharp curves along Richmond Terrace.
-S57 to Hylan & Guyon. Downtown Port Richmond looked extremely depressed, possibly because stores hadn't opened yet and were still gated over. It felt more like a small town in Connecticut or Pennsylvania whose only large factory went out of business. Considerable improvement on Decker Avenue with many well-kept old houses, then great slow climb up Bradley Avenue featuring great views of the Kill, Port Elizabeth and Newark Airport. Wonderful winding, wooded stretch of Rockland Avenue with foliage still visible. Nice speedy run on Amboy Road as well.
-S78 to Poillon. While waiting for 9:42 at Guyon, saw several unmarked cars with sirens blaring headed northeast on Hylan and figured they were out catching speeders for which this Boulevard is infamous. More such vehicles passed by while on the bus. After Richmond Avenue it really starts to get less developed, although there were plenty of roadside billboards reading "Will Build- Offering by Prospectus Only".
-Walked up Poillon to Blue Heron Nature Center. Went into building to use facilities, heard radio in office talking about a plane crash in Rockaway. The ranger and I listened aghast as if to say "What NOW?!"
At 10:15 the accidential nature wasn't yet apparent, so tension was considerable. When they announced that all bridges, tunnels, airports and subways (?!) were shut down, I envisoned myself stranded on Staten Island overnight. No longer in the mood to nature walk, I set out for the Annadale SIR station a mile away to get a grip on what was running. The peaceful ambience (sounds of bulldozers clearing trees notwithstanding) seemed very incongruous indeed.
-Got to Annadale station just in time to miss ferry-bound train AND an R55 and 56 (the latter an RTS 8300-series) going in opposite directions. Walked through recent vintage tract housing to Richmond & Lamoka and was very relieved to immediately grab S79 towards Mall. The driver said the Verrazano was closed before, forcing him to turn at Hylan and Clove, but he just heard on his radio that it was reopened. Huge crowd waiting at Arthur Kill to go to Mall; they must've all transferred from S74. Many MCIs resting in parking lot.
-Got off by Yukon depot, which looked startingly modern. Many MCIs stored in auxiliary lot along Forest Hill Road, other buses parked along Yukon Avenue. Got S61 RTS 4896 with double seats on BOTH sides of front. Seats themselves were in very bad shape, scratched and peeling paint. Nice tour of extremely new (mid-seventies?) Heartland Village which looks identical to some parts of Middlesex and Monmouth. More fast semi-rural speed on Forest Hill, then nice uphill on Harold Street, downhill on Bradley to Victory.
-S57 to Forest & Decker. Lunched on recommendation of co-worker at Home Town Buffet in large shopping center. Ponderosa did it better. Walked off threat of heartburn up Decker to Post.
-S44 to ferry terminal. Caught glimpse of Castleton depot. Bus could barely fit down very narrow Henderson Avenue. Much-maligned West Brighton has some very fancy, cared-for old gabled houses. Short, steep downhill on Lafayette into Richmond Terrace with good view of altered skyline and Bayonne.
-SIRT to Old Town. Walked one block to Hylan with choice of S78 or 79. Was hoping for 79, since I've never taken Orion over Brooklyn-bound Verrazano (and, somewhat morbidly, was curious as to whether I could see smoke over Rockaways). Just missed one, 78 immediately followed. After finishing Hylan, route eschews main drags for an interesting detour on very hilly, narrow side streets of Stapleton.
-Just missed 3:00 boat. The Maritime Museum, an interesting place to kill time while waiting, was closed, probably due to holiday. Got 3:30 JFK back to Whitehall. Could have sworn some of the same people from morning trip were still there. Had to fight off crowd swarming onto boat through exit-only doors.
-Intended to head for subway, but instead unsuccessfully attemped to catch M15 5400-series Artic. Got RTS 8200-series Limited for reasonably fast trip up Pearl until bad bottleneck by Police HQ. Surprisingly little traffic rest of way through Chinatown to Houston; caught up to Artic and had to wait for it to make extremely tight turns from Saint James to very narrow Madison to Pike.
-Got 'F' at 2nd Avenue station to 71st-Continental where car was parked. Fell asleep by 34th.
Other than in the buffet, little conversation about the plane crash was heard.
glad you enjoyed staten island. drove bus here for 13 years and you wouldnt believe how rural the island was back in 1987. its still not stange for bus driver to stop and let ducks cross victory blvd. i did it last year.
wats with the s55/56?
s55/56 run from 6am-7pm monday to friday. a nice ride if you go while students in school.
I've always wanted to see Todt Hill. Do any buses go there?
no. you have to walk from victory blvd or richmond road.
Yukon RTS buses are old and falling apart. Hopefully, when AND IF the conversion of the Orion Express series(the #100's) to local seats, there will be a change.
The TA doesnt operate S59 service past Richmond Avenue and Hyland Boulevard between 10a-2p weekdays and after 8p-5a night and all day weekends becasue there is normally more S78 service. During school hours, there are more S78 buses operating between Luyten Av to Richmond avenue.
About 11 years ago, I did a stunt so incredible, it defies explanation. I took a transit bus trip from City Hall Philadelphia to City Hall New York City. Unfortunately I did'nt take any pictures, but I will when I'll try this stunt next summer. My intenerary included SEPTA, NJT and various private carriers, and the MTA. Most of the routes are still intact despite 10 years of changes so here was the routes I took on this trip:
1.SEPTA-Frankford El Express bus-This was operating during the reconstruction of the El
2.SEPTA 14 bus-Bridge St to Oxford Valley Mall
3.SEPTA 127 bus-Oxford Valley Mall to Trenton
4.NJT 606-Trenton to Princeton
5.SUBURBAN TRANSIT-Princeton to New Brunswick
6.(at the time)MIDDLESEX METRO Rt M10-New Brunswick to Woodbridge Center Mall
7.NJT Rt 62-Woodbridge to Newark
8.NJT Rt 108-Newark to NYC Port Authority Bus Term.
9.walked to 42St-Bway(Times Sq)
10.MTA M6-Times Sq to City Hall.
The SEPTA buses started out with the Volvo on the Express Bus, then NEOPLANS the rest of the way. The NJT buses were Flxibles, and the MTA bus was a RTS. The Suburban Transit was a MC9 "Jersey Cruiser".
When I duplicate this trip again, what type of buses will I get?
in New Jersey, the 606, 810 (new designation of the M10), and 62 will likely be RTSes, but could be Flxible Metros. The 108 will likely be a Flxible Metro, but could be an RTS. The Suburban Transit will be either an MC-9 or a D4000.
When I duplicate this trip again, what type of buses will I get?
1.SEPTA-Frankford El Express bus-This was operating during the reconstruction of the El
Obviously, the Frankford El trains are running, however if shuttles were to be used, the locals would see a mix of Neoplans, NABIs, and an occasional artic from any of the 6 city depots (but most likely Callowhill, Comly, Frankford, and Midvale); all express buses via I-95 would see the Neoplan artics from Allegheny, as all Volvos were retired shortly after the GOP Convention last year.
2.SEPTA 14 bus-Bridge St to Oxford Valley Mall
NABIs from Comly pretty much dominate the 14 these days. However, a Neoplan occasionally slips in on the 14. Most Route 14 buses now terminate at Neshaminy Mall instead of Ox Val; Neshaminy to Ox Val service is also provided by Routes 127 and 128.
3.SEPTA 127 bus-Oxford Valley Mall to Trenton
The 127 now originates at Neshaminy Mall, but follows most of the 14 routing to Ox Val via Business US 1 (Lincoln Hwy). As for buses, most likely ElDorados or Neoplans from Frontier.
4.NJT 606-Trenton to Princeton
Either Flxible Metro Ds or Nova RTS-6As from Hamilton/Mercer. Historically, though, you'd probably get a Flxible.
5.SUBURBAN TRANSIT-Princeton to New Brunswick
MC-9A or -9B cruisers leased from NJT. It's possible that the D4000s to be assigned to Coach USA/Suburban would be in service by the time you take your trip.
6.(at the time)MIDDLESEX METRO Rt M10-New Brunswick to Woodbridge Center Mall
Now Route 810, you'd get a Nova RTS-6B operated by Academy Express of Perth Amboy.
7.NJT Rt 62-Woodbridge to Newark
Flxible Metro D Transit out of Ironbound Garage in Newark.
8.NJT Rt 108-Newark to NYC Port Authority Bus Term.
Either a Metro B or Metro D Suburban from Orange Garage.
9.walked to 42St-Bway(Times Sq)
I think this one is self explanatory...
10.MTA M6-Times Sq to City Hall.
With the introduction of MetroCard between your last adventure, did you consider taking the subway? In any event, M-6 operates out of Hudson Depot, and all buses assigned there are a mix of GMC, TMC, and Nova RTS.
Just curious, how long did the journey take?
WOW...very cool! What other cities can be travelled to via transits? I would LOVE to do such a thing. Especially if FLXES are involved!
-F.
Baltimore and Washington can now be connected the easy way or the hard way, all via buses.
From Downtown Baltimore,
Take MTA #64 bus to Hanover and Patapsco.
Connect to any of the #14, 16, or 29 to get to Patapsco LRT Station.
Then board the #17 line to head to the BWI light rail station.
Take the WMATA B30 to Landover Metro Station.
Take the A12 to Addison Road
Then take the V12 to Potomac Ave Station, where you can connect with
any of the 30 lines 30-32-34-35-36 to get to Center City DC.
Sure you can make it a 3 step ride using Light rail to get to BWI, and Metrorail to DC, but it would spoil the true adventure of it all!
and if you're feeling more adventurous, head out to Frederick, MD by staying on the 30 line to Friendship Heights, then
Ride On 42 to Medical Center
Ride On 46 to Rockville
Ride On 63 to Shady Grove
MTA 995 to Frederick.
This option may vanish when MARC service to Frederick starts in December.
Very true; thanks for the info. I will remember it for future reference!
-F.
The B30 goes to Greenbelt, though, not Landover.From Greenbelt you could take the R3 (on weekdays) to Fort Totten and take the 80 into DC. Saturdays, you can take the 83 to Rhode Island Ave. and switch to the P6 or take the D8 to Union Station.
Thanks for the info; good to know it can be done!
-Fred
Okay, how about this -
Is it possible to travel from New York to Washington on all local buses?
It just might be! Anybody know for sure?
How about New York to Boston,being that it is possible to travel from from NY to Hartford via public transit.
[How about New York to Boston,being that it is possible to travel from from NY to Hartford via public transit.]
I'm not sure you can get from NYC to Hartford by transit bus. You can get to Meriden or Waterbury, but I don't think you can get from either to Hartford. I'm not 100% sure.
As to NYC to Boston, you could not do it through Hartford. You probably can go along the shore route out of New Haven, but I think the closest you can get to Boston is near the Conn.-Rhode Island line. I don't know of any transit route that crosses from CT into RI.
Yes, the CT/RI border seems to be the Great Divide in New England transit. I live in Providence and I can get anywhere northeast of here by public transit (MBTA, GATRA, RIPTA), but I can't get into Connecticut without taking Amtrak or Greyhound. Very frustrating! Closest thing I've found is that RIPTA runs a "flex service" van in the southeastern RI quadrant by reservation . . . but I don't think it links up with any "walking distance" transit stops over the border except for the Foxwoods employee shuttle.
I'll let you all know if I figure out a way to do it . . .
Chris
The DC-New York run I tried to figure out a couple years ago, and for pretty much the reasons you guys have already listed, I think it's impossible.
But can DC to Philly be done? I suspect the weak link would be rural Maryland . . . SEPTA's great in the Philly/South Jersey area, and MTA/Metro have good coverage in the DC/Balto corridor, but I'm wondering how to connect the dots without hopping an Amtrak.
C
There is a DART bus that runs to Elkton to Newark, DE, its the route 65. But there doesn't appear to be a link between Havre de Grace and Elkton. If those smaller communities had services that interlined with each other, it would definitely be a possibility.
I think there is a gap between Havre De Grace, MD and Newark, DE - a distance of about 35 miles.
Besides which, the run from Havre De Grace to Baltimore is a Commuter run which only operates AM in and PM out. For local buses in the Baltimore system with base service, you have to go to White Marsh, MD and get the 15 or 35 lines. A peak hour extension of route 15 operates to Perry Hall MD, a little beyond White Marsh, but not much.
The result is that you may have to "cheat" and take Amtrak from Aberdeen, MD to Wilmington or Newark DE for a stage of the trip.
It'd be interesting if someone could actually develop an itinerary getting between DC and NYC the slow way though!
Here's a little Graphic to illustrate the gaps I just mentioned in the previous post, for those unfamiliar with the Baltimore-Wilmington Region.
|--------|------|-------------|-------|-------|-----------|--------|
Balto White Perry Aberdeen Havre Perry Newark Wilmtn
Marsh Hall De Grace ville Del
White Marsh - end of Baltimore MTA Service area covered by local base bus service
Perry Hall - end of Baltimore MTA Service covered by Peak Local bus Service
Aberdeen - Stop on MTA's 420 Commuter Line Bus, Stop on MARC Peak hour commuter service, limited use Amtrak Stop
Havre De Grace - End of route of MTA's 420 Commuter Bus - No Amtrak or MARC stop here
Perryville - End of MARC peak commuter route.
Newark, DE - End of DART First State coverage area - End of selected SEPTA Regional rail service. - Limited Amtrak Stop.
Yikes let me try that again! Graphic took out the spaces!
Here's a little Graphic to illustrate the gaps I just mentioned in the previous post, for those unfamiliar with the Baltimore-Wilmington Region.
|--------|------|-------------|-------|-------|-----------|--------|
Balto...White..Perry.......Aberdeen..Havre...Perry-....Newark...Wilmtn
........Marsh...Hall................De.Grace..ville......Del
White Marsh - end of Baltimore MTA Service area covered by local base bus service
Perry Hall - end of Baltimore MTA Service covered by Peak Local bus Service
Aberdeen - Stop on MTA's 420 Commuter Line Bus, Stop on MARC Peak hour commuter service, limited use Amtrak Stop
Havre De Grace - End of route of MTA's 420 Commuter Bus - No Amtrak or MARC stop here
Perryville - End of MARC peak commuter route.
Newark, DE - End of DART First State coverage area - End of selected SEPTA Regional rail service. - Limited Amtrak Stop.
DART offers weekday service on bus Route 65 between Newark, Del. and Elkton, Md. To my knowledge, there really is no other bus service between Elkton and Perry Hall/White Marsh.
The MTA Commuter Bus services out of Baltimore do not offer reverse flow service. I don't think you'd be able to get past Elkton or Newark using local transit routes.
You'd also have to either cheat between Claymont and Marcus Hook, since there's no bus connection between New Castle County (DART First State) and Marcus Hook (SEPTA) save for the R2 Wilmington rail line.
AFA New York to Boston, I'll have to do some checking, but I think the furthest north you'd be able to get without taking Amtrak is New London.
When I tried this, it took about 12 hours. I left Philly around 8 am, arivved in NYc just around 7:45 pm. I had two breaks, 1 in Princeton for lunch, and a break in New Brunswick because of a missed connection.
I could go from MY House to New Haven by Transit Bus.
NYCTA Q44 LTD to Rosevelt Ave.
QS QBX1 to Pelham Bay.
Bee Line 45 to New Rochelle.
Bee Line 61 to Port Chester.
CT Transit K to Stamford.
CT Transit F to Norwalk.
Coastal Link to CT Post Mall. (Run by 3 Diffent TA's).
CT Transit O2 or PMF to Downtown New Haven.
[CT Transit K to Stamford.
CT Transit F to Norwalk]
Many of the buses on Routes K and F in the Stamford Division of CT Transit are interlined, so you probably would not have to even change buses in Stamford - one bus would take you from Port Chester all the way to Norwalk.
Here's the answers to your question.
1 and 2 idk.
3. If you take the 127 doing Weekdays. It be Mixed of NABI's and Neoplans. On Saturdays. Mainly ElDorados with a Neoplan might show up.
4. 606 would run at least a 30Foot Nova RTS.
5. It's mainly MC9A's and MC9B's. A D4000 might show up.
6. 810 is ALL 40Foot Nova RTS's.
7. 62 Mainly runs Flxible MetroD's and a MetroD Suburban sometimes run on 62.
8. 108 runs Flxible MetroD Suburbans.
9. I don't get it!
10. M6 Runs Mainly 84xx-85xx TMC RTS's and 94xx-95xx 40Foot Nova RTS's. Sometimes a 45xx Gm RTS's and 48xx TMC RTS Suburbans runs on M6.
Look up the NY Times Sunday travel sections for September, October, or November 1992... Somewhere in one of those is an article about a "Bus Man's Holiday" which describes a 2-day public transit journey from Newark, DE to Old Saybrook, CT.
However, the author "cheated" by staying on the Suburban bus through to NYC.
This reminds me of my own odyssey, completed on August 31, 1992, from downtown Los Angeles to the Mexican border. I took the following conveyances:
SCRTD Blue Line - Los Angeles to Long Beach
Long Beach Transit #92 - along 5th Street in Long Beach
Orange County Transit District #1 - Long Beach VA Hospital to Capistrano Beach via Pacific Coast Highway (very scenic; limit of 6 surfboards per bus, strictly enforced)
OCTD #91 - Capistrano Beach to San Clemente
North (San Diego) Transit District #305 - San Clemente to Oceanside (grand tour of the Camp Pendleton Marine Corps base)
NCTD #310 - Oceanside to University Towne Centre Mall (I saved 30 minutes by "cheating" via the #310 freeway express instead of the #301 local)
San Diego Transit #30 - University Towne Centre to downtown S.D. (again, via freeway)
"Red Trolley" South Line - downtown S.D. to San Ysidro
Walk over border.
- - - -
The whole trip took 9 hours and 20 minutes, and cost $2.90 with continuous transfers. BTW, I returned via the trolley to San Diego and Amtrak to LA Union Station.
I tried to repeat that journey a few years later, buut I got tired and had to jump on Amtrak at Oceanside.
Wow...very nice! What kind of equipment did you ride at the time?
-F.
>>> This reminds me of my own odyssey, completed on August 31, 1992, from downtown Los Angeles to the Mexican border <<<
Of course the route would have been even longer, but possible, if you had started up in the Antelope Valley, Simi Valley, or San Bernardino. That might turn it into a two day trip since I doubt that there are any owl buses running in North San Diego County.
Tom
Actually, NCTD operates a route through Camp Pendleton (I believe Route 307) which operates at very odd hours, including some overnight service.
[...I doubt that there are any owl buses running in North San Diego County.]
Actually, NCTD route 305 has its BEST headways in the evening and overnight. (Keep in mind that of its 20-or-so-mile length, only the first and last mile, give or take, are outside of Camp Pendleton. The 305 - along with several other NCTD routes which wander around the Camp - is marketed primarily toward the Marines.)
During half of the day (4:00 AM thru 4:00 PM), the 305 runs every 3 hours. (My whole LA-to-Mexico odyssey was built around the 10:00 AM trip from San Clemente!) From 5:00 PM to about 2:00 AM, it runs every 30 to 60 minutes so the Marines can go into one town or the other (Oceanside or San Clemente) for some fun and then get back to the base for a nap before reveille.
>>> During half of the day (4:00 AM thru 4:00 PM), the 305 runs every 3 hours. (My whole LA-to-Mexico odyssey was built around the 10:00 AM trip from San Clemente!) From 5:00 PM to about 2:00 AM, it runs every 30 to 60 minutes so <<<
That 305 line does have a rather strange schedule. The weekend trips to San Clemente are much more frequent than the Monday - Thursday trips, catering to Marines on leave. There are also more trips on Friday. Here is the schedule. When I worked out my itinerary from San Bernardino to the border, I used the Monday-Thursday schedule. Perhaps the trip can be done more quickly on Saturday, although the Foothill 699 is not available then.
Tom
>>> This reminds me of my own odyssey, completed on August 31, 1992, from downtown Los Angeles to the Mexican border. <<<
Just for the heck of it, I did some comparisons between the Philly - New York trip and Los Angeles to Tijuana (Thanks to NAFTA there is a local bus across the border now).
Philly - New York: milage = 95
L.A. - Tijuana: Milage = 144
I got the milage from the Greyhound site. BTW The two Greyhound fares are $23.00 for Philly - N.Y., and $15.00 for L.A. - Tijuana.
If you want to make it a real odyssey, start in San Bernardino. Then the milage goes up to 211. If I were going to attempt this trip, I would certainly want to bring along a cushion to sit on and a copy of War and Peace to read. I have not checked all of the schedules, but I feel sure the travel time exceeds 12 hours.
Tom
Having too much time on my hands, I put together this itinerary for a 211 mile transit bus trip from San Bernardino to the Mexican Border using published weekday schedules. I did not calculate the cost, because I am not sure of all the transfer policies of the various agencies involved. I have not physically made this trip, and doubt that I ever will.
6:05 A.M. Catch OMNItrans #90 at Arrowhead and San Bernardino, in downtown San Bernardino to the Montclair Transit Center arriving at 7:25 A.M.
7:33 A.M. Catch Foothill Transit #699 at Montclair Transit Center to downtown Los Angeles, 7th and Figueroa, arriving at 8:50 A.M.
9:12 A.M. Catch LAMTA #460 at 7th and Figueroa to Disneyland, arriving at 11:09 A.M.
11:26 A.M. Catch OCTA #205 at Disneyland to Laguna Hills Transit Center, arriving at 12:20 P.M.
12:30 P.M. Catch OCTA #91 at Laguna Hills Transit Center to San Clemente (Carl's Jr.), arriving at 1:34 P.M.*
Here you get a very long rest stop for lunch and a little local exploring.
4:50 P.M. Catch NCDT #305 at Carl's Jr. to Oceanside Transit Center, arriving at 5:53 P.M.
6:05 P.M. Catch NCDT #310 at Oceanside Transit Center to University Transit Center, arriving at 7:02 P.M.
7:33 P.M. Catch SDCT #5 at University Transit Center to downtown San Diego, arriving at Masrket and 16th Street at 8:37 P.M.
8:46 P.M. Catch MTS #932 at Market and 16th Street in San Diego to the Mexican Border, arriving at 9:55 P.M.
I could not find any schedules for the bus that crosses the border into Tijuana, so I do not know if it is still running this late. In any case, this would get you to Tijuana just in time to enjoy the night life since the bars and night clubs stay open late.
* At San Clemente, the #91 just misses a #305 which is scheduled there at 1:32 P.M., two minutes earlier. If the #91 is early, or the #305 is late, it is possible to arrive at the border at 7:29 P.M. reducing the travel time from 15 hours and 50 minutes to 13 hours and 24 minutes.
Tom
Wow, such a journey!!
Just a thought, though... Why go 70 miles west into LA just to head southeast? How about something more direct? Maybe OmniTrans/Inland Empire #100 from San Bernardino to Riverside, then RTA/Inland Empire #149 to the Mall of Orange (when was it cut back from Disneyland?), then some OCTA route(s) to Santa Ana for the #91.
>>> Why go 70 miles west into LA just to head southeast? How about something more direct? Maybe OmniTrans/Inland Empire #100 from San Bernardino to Riverside, then RTA/Inland Empire #149 to the Mall of Orange <<<
I followed the Greyhound Route, and I regularly use the Foothill #699 to downtown L.A., but you are absolutely correct, that it would be faster to take the #100 and #149. As follows:
Catch Inland Empire #100 at 4th and Arrowhead in San Bernardino at 7:02 A.M. arriving at Riverside Downtown terminal at 7:27 A.M.
Catch Inland Empire #149 at Riverside downtown terminal at 7:45 A.M. arriving at the Mall of Orange at 9:05 A.M.
Catch OCTA #50 at Mall of Orange at 9:19 to Katella and Harbor at 9:44 A.M.
Catch OCTA #205 at Katella and Harbor at 10:03 A.M.
This way you catch the #205 more than an hour earlier, and do not have the long wait in San Clemente, so you would arrive at the border at 7:29 P.M., for a total elapsed time of 12 hours, 27 minutes. Not a bad time for the distance involved.
Tom
Looking at some old SEPTA maps...what happened to old Route 45. It looked like it travelled along the schuykill to valley forge. where and when did this bus operate, and why was it cancelled.
also, does anyone remember old route 82, what route did that travel and when and why did that get cancelled
Route 45 is what is now known today as the Routes 124/125 from Center City Philadelphia to King of Prussia via I-76, Wissahickon Transfer Center, and the Gulph Mills P&W station. At the time, I believe Route 45 was a split operation between one of the City Transit garages (most likely Callowhill) and Red Arrow. A similar set-up was in place for the 44 between Center City and Ardmore.
Once the KofP-Center City operation was re-assigned to Frontier in the mid-to-late 1980's, the route designators changed and split into two branches: Route 124 was extended to Chesterbrook via Swedesford Road, and Route 125 was extended to Valley Forge via King of Prussia Industrial Park. The 124 operates between Gulph Mills and King of Prussia via Henderson Road and DeKalb Pike; the 125 operates more directly to King of Prussia via South Gulph Road.
I don't know about Route 82; that was probably an ex-PTC route which was absorbed into one of the present Red Arrow/Victory Depot routes (I'll have to double check my notes) around the Chester City/Media area.
45 is now 121.
I`m sorry to correct you, but Rt. 45 is now the 124/125. This route was split up to serve the Rt.202 corridor in Upper Merion and Tredyffren Townships. Route 82 was a very old suburban route. It died in the 60's, but the designator was used for school trips from Archbishop Wood High School to Springfield, Glenolden, Ridley. When the school decided to run its own bus service, SEPTA formally abandoned the route sometimes in the 90's. SEPTA also used this designator for a temporary route on Delaware Avenue during the Christopher Columbus Celebration in 1992, when the City changed the name of Delaware Avenue, south of Spring Garden St to Columbus Blvd.
Are you sure it was Archbishop Wood? I thought that was up around Warminster Township. You must be thinking of Cardinal O'Hara, which is in Springfield.
From the notes that I had, Route 82 was listed as running between Morton and Springfield, so it's probable that parts of the 82 were incorporated into the present Route 111 between Springfield Mall and 69 St Terminal via Morton, Secane South Avenue/Glenolden, and Primos.
As for the service to Gladwynne, I believe that service was initally called the 49, then later the 44G, and is now running as the 121.
I knew it was one of the Catholic High schools in Delaware County, I got my schools mixed up. Wood is in Warminster. Now the Gladwyne service, you got it mixed up. It was first the 44G, then the 49, now its the 121. When it was the 44G, the route was shared with Red Arrow buses, it's been city operated since it was changed to the 49. Callowhill runs the route since the 80's. Before that all of the expressway lines were ran out of Allegheny.
Are ALL these changes because of the September 11th attacks? Will they continue for years and years to come or it's a temporary thing like the Manhattan Bridge construction (B to W, etc.)
Ray
Enjoy!
I also have a Quick Time MPEG Motion Picture of Bus #101 and 110 in action if anybody wants it, just e-mail me @ tlogan@transitalk.com.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
WOW! That's all I can say...
I wonder if all remaining CT Transit buses (ie. the Classics) will get the new scheme, or is that just for the Stamford buses?
Well according to a article in thier newsletter, YES the rest of the fleet is supposed to gain this paint scheme, starting with the New Flyer High Floors!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Nice pictures and thanks for the info on the paint scheme.
CT Transit's predecessor, Connecticut Company, kept pretty much the same paint scheme for many decades. Since CT Transit took over the system in the mid-1970's, they have gone through several paint schemes. New ones are generally introduced when new buses are delivered. The Grumman 870's came in with a new scheme that later found its way on a few fishbowls. Most of the Grummans were eventually repainted into a slightly different scheme. The 1983 fishbowls had a scheme slightly different than the old Conn. Company scheme with the addition of turquoise. A similar scheme found its way on some rebuilt older fishbowls. The 1988 Scanias saw a new paint scheme that was slightly modified when some of the Scanias were repainted. The 1990 Classic scheme was similar to but not quite the same as the Scania scheme. With the 1996 Classics, yet another scheme was introduced. This same scheme was used on the RTS's in Waterbury, Bristol and New Britain. Many of the 1993 and 1994 New Flyers were repainted into this new scheme, as were some of the older Classics and even a few Scanias. With the new scheme on the New Flyer Low-Floors, it looks like "here we go again". If the high floor New Flyers are repainted, it will be for the second time in less than ten years!
Trevor,,can you please send me any additional photos or movie shots,,thanks
Steve
DOT should get this. This is a great bus. Where is the AC though, cause it does look like the one TA has?
Hi Trevor,
Can you please send me any other items you have,,regarding these new Buses
Thanks
Steve
If anyone wants to see the official press release on these new buses, it is at:
http://www.cttransit.com/press/Press.asp?pressID={66D3DB0F-BA66-11D5-86C0-00902745F158}
The TA seems to have picked up on a Command Bus Company style system. Beginning next pick (IIRC), There will be 4 new routes. The X37, X38, X39 and X42.
The X37 will be a Midtown ONLY version of the X27, The X38 will be a Midtown ONLY version of the X28, The X39 will be a Midtown ONLY version of the X29, and The X42 will be a Midtown ONLY version of the X12.
I don't know currently if there are any other routes this system will be applied to.....But this is what I know of so far.
Will Keep You Posted!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
These are some good ideas! They should do the same for the X68. It has three different terminations:
23rd St and 1st Av
57th St and 2nd Av or 3rd Av
I think the last is on 42nd St.
Maybe call it the X68 as the main route and the X69 and X70 as the other routes. Or X66 and X67....your pick. Now that's a better idea for Queens riders.
Ray
[These are some good ideas! They should do the same for the X68. It has three different terminations:
23rd St and 1st Av
57th St and 2nd Av or 3rd Av
I think the last is on 42nd St.]
Actually, the X68 has two different Manhattan terminals and three different routings:
"North": Tunnel, 37th Street, 3rd Avenue, 42nd Street, Madison Avenue, 57th Street, to 3rd Avenue.
"South": Tunnel, 34th Street, 5th Avenue, 23rd Street, to 1st Avenue.
"Grand Tour": Tunnel, 37th Street, 3rd Avenue, 57th Street, 5th Avenue, 23rd Street, to 1st Avenue.
Most X68 trips during the heart of the AM rush use either the "north" or "south" routing; a few eary trips and the last few trips of the morning (plus all the X63s and X64s) use the "grand tour" routing.
Trevor, I do not think this will happen for the following reasons:
1-It will be to confusing for the passengers. You will also have a x-37 and B-37,x-38 and B-38 ,x-39 and B-39,x-42 and s-42. Is the x-27,x-28 and x-29 downtown only routes. also what will happen off peak.
To make these changes will just cause a ton of confusion.
2- the x-29 ridership just does not justify a midtown only service
Also since when does Command have seperate numbers for its midtown only services on the BM-1,BM-2,BM-3 and BM-4.
Don't believe everything you hear. A lot of rumors are just that RUMORS.
You do a brilliant job with your web site. Keep up the good work
Thank You
Command doesn't have separate numbers but they have "Downtown ONLY" and "Midtown ONLY" parts of thier routes.
The X27-X29 are not only downtown routes, these do downtown and midtown in the same route. What they are doing is spliting it the make the run time to Midtown quicker.
I guess we'll see.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
It does not make sense but then again half the things the TA does just does not make sense.
Keep up the good work
LOL! I totally agree with you there!
Thanx
Trevor
This is no rumor. It's happening effective with the Winter Pick (January 2002), subject to MTA Board approval. However, "Barry" is right about one thing: there is no "X39" complement to the X29, since X29 ridership isn't high enough to warrant having enough service to split. As for off-peak, the midtown-only services will run only during peak hours -- off-peak, everything will make all stops.
David
I posted this material from the Agenda of the NYCT Committee Agenda
Thanks
Steve
Dont believe anything until it goes before the Board
I know a comment was made about the nice amber-displays on the new busses... if nothing else they let you know you are getting on a new bus. However, it seems that each display can be independently programmed. Yesterday, I saw the front/side of one say 44 5th - Market but the back route display indicated 43.
It really gets interesting when non-route messages are displayed. So far, in the back display, I have seen [GO ] [SIX - ] when the message on the side/front displays are "Go Sixers." Even better is when the destination reads CHARTER... the back display blinks like a circa 1986 Amber CRT wide computer cursor.
So much for using technology wisely.
yesterday when i was on the septa new flyer on 38 it had miss spell
words on it.
i also find out the the new flyer has weirld gear ratios.
12mph
25mph
30mph
49mph
65mph
Haha, that's actually amusing. Wrong signs.
When the front signs read "SEPTA/TAKE NEXT BUS", the rear sign's simply read "SEPTA". Another one of my favorites is when the front and side signs read either "OFF DUTY/NO PASSENGERS" or "TRAINING BUS/NO PASSENGERS", the rear sign reads "NO SVC".
I noticed the same problem with the 44 sign readings. Given that this is SEPTA, though, I'm not shocked...
today i sen 5460 on the g
I saw one on the 125 Saturday night. I like those lights next to the back door.
this facility no longer exists. there are currently no buses at this former storge facility. older 3800 series buses were probably sold for scrap while most orions have returned to service.
This website is called www.nycroads.com You guys might have seen this website before but it has plans of roads, highways and expressways across the city that was planned and will never be built. For example, the Astoria Expressway (I-678) from Astoria/Northern Blvds to the BQE, Bushwick Expressway (I-78) and the Lower Manhattan Expressway (I-487). Check it out. If these roads were built today, who knows what kind of bus service would run on these highways. Would we have more or less bus service. What do you guys think? Remember, these are or were plans by Robert Moses...a well-known highway designer and planner.
Ray
That's a great website. Another great site is http://www.forgottenny.com
.... and of course, there's our very own:
http://www.qvdepot.com
Queens Village Depot Online
:-)
Forgotten NY
http://www.forgotten-ny.com
That is a cool site, but y'all in NYC better be pretty damn glad that Bobby Moses did not get his way. Had those freeways been built (especially the Grand Central/Park Avenue freeway) your transit system and your city would just be another typically American, 9-to-5, traffic-choked freeway-laden concrete jungle. Clearly, these freeways had the intent of making the primary mode of travel in NYC the personal automobile. Let's just be glad that that did not happen, and that transit is dominant in NYC and always will be.
Robert Moses was not a friend of transit; he was a puppet for the car companies and road building concerns and he had grand plans to tear up the entire city to build freeways. Would there have been bus routes on his freeways? Probably. But the transit system as a whole would be much weaker were there so many freeways.
BTW, does anyone care to tell me what happened to the West Side Highway? I don't know the whole story on that...
Anyone know if any artics are running on the M15, and if so, how many?
Thanks in advance to all who answer.
Yes, four articulateds, #5506-5509, four loaners from Kingsbridge Depot, are running the M15 line as we speak. I have seen them numerous times and have a couple of photos of them. They are probably running today...I didn't see them, but I think they are running, though.
Regards,
Cleanairbus
(Carlton W.)
These are not loaners, They are currently permenant additions to the 126th Fleet.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
4. #5504-#5509.
I saw LI Bus 202 in service today on the N27. It had a major fire awhile back. Amazingly it is running again. The whole back of the bus looks new, but the rear lights are the same as the older Orions, and unfortunately still uses the Cummins engine.
I remember when 202 had the fire. It happened not too long after bus 666 burned up. They decided to fix up 202 and scrap 666. To date, 666 would have been the highest numbered CNG in the M.S.B.A. fleet. I say they were better off with the diesels!
Well the problem is those horrible Cummins engines. Almost all the drivers prefer buses 288-359 because they use the Detroit Diesel Series 50(G) engines. Most of the DOT CNG's as well as those that NYCT operates (mostly New Flyer LF's)use the DD CNG engine as well. Cummins is crap, it amazes me they are still in business. Those L10G's found in LI 100-245 are crap. They are so slow. And man are they loud! The diesel Orions are way faster with their 6V-92's.
Yeah personally I wished LIB would've stayed diesel as well, I remember seeing an old picture of the bus depot with the diesel Orion, Flxible Metro, and Gillig. The fleet was alot more interesting back then. Some of the senior guys will prefer the old equipment. But the Orion CNG's with the DD S50G engines run fine. It's those crappy Cummins that give us all the problems. Who goes with Cummins anyway? NYCT has Cummins engines in very few of their buses, that should tell ya something right there.
Can somebody fill me in on what engine powers NYCT #101-317? Is it a Cummins engine or a 6V-92?
Anyway, barring those Orions, NYCT has approximatly 40 buses in the fleet that are powered by Cummins engines (#581-610, & #9140-9149). My guess it that either Cummins engines aren't reliable (NJT's RTS and Flxible fleets may disprove this), or that NYCT is trying to keep parts costs down by dedicating itself to Detroit Diesel while experimenting with other engines.
Saw her tonite on Madison & 30th. Nothing out of the ordinary other than the front destination sign is a nice bright big Orange LED sign and her side sign is your typical green flip dot. Boy does an orange LED sign stand out on an MCI.
You can add #1805 to this list also. She has the orange luminator LED sign in the front and regular green flipdot sign on the right side.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
The MTA has finally woken up regarding S.I to Midtown x-bus routing. Since the WTC attack commuting patterns have changed as more Staten Islander's jobs have relocated from downtown to midtown. If the MTA is smart (a dangerous assumption) it will soon have to consider express bus routes from Staten Island and Brooklyn to Jersey City and Hoboken. Many jobs have relocated from downtown to office complexes in these two cities.
From the S.I. Advance - - -
http://www.silive.com/news/advance/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/news/100592010138933.xml
dont worry smart they are not. njt has been willing to pay their expenses to provide service to hudson bergen light rail and they have refused.
NYCT is not legally allowed to pick up or discharge passengers in New Jersey.
Hi! I am new to BusTalk, but I've been involved in SubTalk for awhile.
I want to know some simple things about bus routes the T/A runs in NYC.
I know that the numbers of the bus have a prefix of "Q", "B", "BX" and "M", according to each borough.
1) How many bus routes are there?
(and for each borough)
2) What is the longest bus route?
3) What is the shortest bus route?
4) What are the different models of the bus and which models are used for which lines?
These and more questions will be asked but I'll stick with this for now.
Answers and responses will be greatly appreciated.
Railfan Pete.
Very cool; thank you for the explanation of acronyms on routes. I wondered where the letters came from!
-F.
You're welcome. I'm not a very big of a bus fan but I am a good observer. I hope learning about buses will get me fully equipped for the physical knowledge of MTA service in NYC.
: )
Pete, great stuff; what you do know benefitted me. Thank you...keep learning.
-F.
I don't know where you are located in relation to NYC, but what *I* would suggest is trying to obtain copies of each borough's bus map. This will give you a plethora of information as far as the routes go.
As for the bus equipment used, that is something possibly other posters here can help with as I am not in NYC. Among the types operated by MTA NY City bus are the GM/TMC/Nova RTS-II's, the OBUI Orion V, New Flyer C40LF, H60HF, and MCI highway buses. Again, local users in the NYC area could be more specific.
Here are the bus models currently used here in NYC:
Bustalkers, please feel free to correct me on the years)
1982-1986 GMC RTS-04
1987-1994 TMC RTS-06
1995-1999 NovaBUS RTS-06
1993-1996 OBI/Orion 5.501
1998-1999 OBI/Orion 5.501
1998-2000 OBI/Orion 6.501
1996-2000 New Flyer D60 Articulated
1999-2000 New Flyer C40LF CNG
1997-1998 MCI 102-DLW3SS Cruiser
1999-2001 MCI D4500 Cruiser
2001 Orion 7.501 CNG not in service yet...
As for the number of bus routes in each borough, look on each of the bus maps, you can find them on the MTA website, www.mta.nyc.ny.us All I can say is that there are approximately 203 local and 34 express bus routes in NYC...
Cleanairbus
There were no RTS orders after 1999? I hope more come about in the near future as that is the definitive NYC bus. Orion may be homegrown to the state, but it just doesn't say New York to me.
-F.
Well, I don't have a chance to go to a bus stop specifically, and when I find a bus shelter, and a "built in" map on a bus stop pole, there are no free maps.
Can you tell me where to get the maps?
"Bill from Maspeth" can keep me updated with basic bus equipment info., but I'll be glad to receive helpful information from anyone who's willing.
: )
Under the B-13 and B-18 consolidation what passengers will lose service because of this change.
What route replaces current B-40 service to Pennsylvina and Liberty Aves?
I see by running the proposed B40/B78 combination servicefrom Woodhull Hospital the TA is back to cutting service again
Thank You
There were some proposals of extending the B45 or the B65 to Ralph Av
The B12 is taking over the area,lost,,exclusivly..
The area on Broadway will be operated ,by the B46 Route
As far as the B18 ,,the area being elminated is an area,,formerly worked by many factories and other businesses,,long since closed !! ( Morgan Av,IE)
The New Buswick Av corridor is a main road !!!
The area on Linden Blvd is a NEW Movie Complex
Note,,everything quoted here,,is from the NYCT Agenda --
Steve,Since I relocated to Florida and no longer have any maps please
answer the following:
Between Myrtle/Wykoff the B-18 travels via Wykoff,Cypress Ave before meeting the B-13 at Cypress Hills St whilethe B-13 travels via Gates Ave,Fresh Pond Road.Where doesthe proposed route going to operate?
Also the B-40 duplicates the B-12 between St Johns Place and Rockaway Ave. I can not believe that the TA is not going to have some service along Liberty Ave.
About 10 years ago I proposed something to Operations Planning about a combination B40/B10 service(prior to the extenstion to JFK and redesignation of B-15)and was told that most current B-40 riders prefer the current operation .Why no the change
Thanks for any help on the matter
Okay, this new agenda thing with the B13 and B18 is stupid. I've been on the B13 more than anyone on this board. They should stay 2 seperate routes. These routes only cross each other twice, at Crescent St./Jamaica Av. and Gates Av./Wyckoff Av.. This new plan is going to screw up the B13 schedule, and it isn't going to cover that much ground. The B13 & B18 are fine the way they are.
Barry:
The B78 cutback to Woodhull Hospital will affect a small percentage of people. Right now on Bway for every B40 bus, there is 3-4 B46 buses. I think more people prefer the B46 over the B40. Except for those who need to get drop off in front of their house on Ralph(Senior Citizens). The B46 is about two blocks from the B40 after they leave each other on Bway. Albeit, those two blocks are quite a walk at some point.
By cutting back the combined B40/B78 from Williamsburg Bridge Plaza and Woodhull Hospital you are making these passenges who had a one seat ride now have a two seat ride. And if they have to transfer again it will cost them a 2nd fare.
This is the TA's idea of cutting service. There is no execuse for these type of cutbacks.
Norm Silverman's idea of making changes is just cutting service.
Plain and sample.
When are you going to realize this.
Thank You
I agree with you 100%. This is just the beginning. Who knows where the next cutback will be?
I haven't looked closely at the map, but doesn't every route that intersects with the B-78/B-40 also intersect with the B-46? So, for people terminating at Bridge Plaza from those intersecting routes can just transfer to the B-46 instead of the B-78/40. The only place where there might be a second fare needed would be for people originating on the original part of the B-40 route who need to transfer to buses AT Bridge Plaza. In the past, in certain situations, the TA has made it possible for Metrocard customers to make more than one transfer without an additional fare being deducted, maybe they can apply that in this case as well.
The B45/65 already terminates at Ralph Av-St.Johns Pl. Unless you mean extending one of the routes, (I say the B65) to Atlantic-Georgia Avs. The B12 does run about a block from the B40 Liberty Av branch which by the way, is part of ENY "Industrial Park".
Does anyone have an up to date Roster including
--
Road Numbers
Models
Mfgr
Date Mfgr
Thanks
Steve
I have the All-Time Connecticut Transit/ConnDOT Roster posted at my web site. This dates back to the first GM fishbowls bought by ConnDOT and includes the recent New Flyer deliveries.
I just got back from my mega-trip from Baltimore and Washington, DC. I got a lot of pictures that will be posted during next week, so please be patient. I utilized the itenerary I planned using the Light Rail, B30 Metrobus, and the Green Line. The entire trip time, including waiting time, took almost 2 hours. The cost was about $5.50, give or take a quarter. The first fare was the $1.35 on the Light Rail. Then the $2.00 on the B30, then the $2.40? on the Green Line (I bought a all day pass, the fare quoted was an educated guess),so the fare came to a cheap $5.95, give or take a quarter. Maybe I would have gotten a better connection if I got off the Light Rail at the BWI Business District Station, since the B30 lays over there. (I had to take care of "Personal Business", if you know what I mean, so I had to go to the Terminal.) That connection may had knocked off 40 minutes off the trip. Actually, if WMATA ran the buses every 30 minutes, the connections with the Light Rail would be better, instead of the current 40 minute schedule. The only drawback to this is the LONG trip on the Light Rail. It took around 45 minutes to go from Penn Station to BWI Airport. All of the other trips ran around 35 mintes each on the B30 Bus and Green Line Metrorail.
Now the other question, Whassup with RIDE-ON 5700? Is this FLXIBLE METRO D an orphan? A hand-me-down from WMATA? Please tell me the origin of this bus I saw on the 46 Saturday evening. All explainations would be appreciated. If it wasn`t too dark, I would have taken a picture of it. This is why I hate Late Fall and Winter, it gets dark too early.
How was the B30 other than the long wait? What type of equipment was used? I'm hoping they use the Flxible Metro Suburbans.
The Ride On Flxible is one of three that were originally Baltimore MTA buses. They used alternative fuels when at MTA, then took quite awhile to convert to diesel once at Ride On. I believe this conversion was done at WMATA's Bladensburg facility.
I'm thinking of trying the B30, metrorail, light rail combo when I go to Timonium in a couple of weeks for a train show. I think I'll pack a lunch for that trip!
Good to hear that the former MTA Flxes are still kicking; what kind of power team do they have now that they are back to diesel?
-F.
Detroit Diesel Series 50 coupled to a Voith D863ADR 3 Speed automatic transmission.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
DaShawn, what does that combo sound like in a Flx? We have the Series 50 mated to an Allison 5-speed in our 94 Gilligs and it sounds rough and clanky with lots of vibration. Are Flxes smoother with that engine?
-Fred
I've never ridden 5700, but it's pretty cool. Ride-On seems to like the Voith Tranny as it's in all of their latest buses. I often ride their 40 ft Orion V's (5704-5725) which have the DD Series 50/Voith combination.
Wayne
Interesting. Yeah, the Voith seems to be a neat transmission. Do they hold up well?
-F.
It is very smooth to me compared to the Allison combination. And they accelerate much quicker to me also than the Allison transmissions. Ride-On's Flxible Metro D's are historical as they were the first LNG Buses built. They originally had Cummins L10G's and now they have Detroit Diesel Series 50 EGR's with DDEC IV electronic controls. They are my favorite METRO D's.
Peace!
DaShawn
I saw the B30 Thursday at Greenbelt Metro station and it was an Orion V (suburban configuration) #4395. I'm guessing that a few of them were transferred to Landover for use on the B30. I'm also hoping to see some Flxibles on the B30. I'll continue to stop by Greenbelt to see if I can spot Flxibles on the B30.
Wayne
Thanks Wayne! I'm hoping to go over that way in a few weeks when I may attempt to do a trip to Timonium utilizing all transit. Call in the search dogs if you don't hear from me for awhile after that!! LOL.
I hope they switch some Flxibles over there too. I did see 9832 on a local line in Virgina today, so I guess there are a few still running around here. I do remember seeing one on Rte. 50 in PG county running the New Carrollton to Crofton line several months ago.
How ironic you mention 9832; wait till you see this model I did not too long ago..it is currently in Trevor Logan's collection.
members.aol.com/Fredman176/myhomepage/metrobus.jpg
Oh yes, and there are more where that one came from. :)
-Fred
Wayne, that would be great; thanks!
-Fred
eBay Item #1031773337, closes Sunday, November 18th about 4pm New York Time. A real gem in superb condition.
I can't seem to find any. I'm suprised no one has set any web pages up with the sounds of American bus engines.
Me too. If somebody doesn't, I will.
-F.
I have recorded many sounds. They will appear on TranaiTALK's Sound page when the site reopens. I used to have a sound page on Transit World but GeoCities deleted my account for storing MP3 files on their server.
Peace,
Kevin
TransiTALK.com
The buses used on the B30 are the 4390's Orions with some of the seats removed so luggage racks can be installed. They are the same type of buses used on the Dulles Airport run. The special buses used on the B30 are out of Landover.
Oh wow, they put luggage racks in them? Very nice. I was wondering how people with baggage were going to be lured onto this system. I guess since the SmartMover has cut back a lot of service, there are extra Orion V suburbans to be used. Thanks for the info. I look forward to checking this line out. : )
Are those the Orion5's with High Back Seats that you PUSH a button under the armrest to push the seat back?
Unfortunately, they just sit there, no reclining. We're not worthy! Maybe now that WMATA is entering into more long distance type commutes, they should look into that or purchasing MCI's.
Anything on the WMATA Metrobus assignments, as to which lines operate from where? Where are the garages located?
I know the 5A uses the same Orion V's from the 1998 group, but when I see the 5A it's usually a 4200 series bus with regular transit seating.
Wayne
I've seen all sorts of equipment on that one and the 5B as well. They use 9800 series Flxibles once in awhile, too. Most of the time it is the Orion V's though. Those buses are coming out of Four Mile Run.
I took a total of 3 bus rides the whole time I was in New York this past week, so all my (long) posts are on SubTalk. I've made 2 out of 3 so far.
Post 1: Thursday's absolutely long, horrible, stressful, and chaotic Amtrak Trip
Post 2: Friday's Trip to Ground Zero, Far Rockaway, and some R142 Bashing
Saturday's travels to come later.
Enjoy!
This afternoon (Sunday), around 2PM, I saw an older RTS Queens Surface bus coming down 197th Street (south) at 73rd Avenue in Fresh Meadows. The destination sign read "SPECIAL" as the operator (in uniform) dropped-off two passengers at the intersection. I don't want to give the bus number just in case he wasn't supposed to be there :-)
Does anyone know why the bus was there?
The bus was probably doing a SPECIAL CHARTER ordered by the NYC DOT. I did a SPECIAL CHARTER last Monday for Liberty Lines that was ordered by the DOT. We had to bring families from Yonkers Raceway to the Sheraton Hotel in Manhattan. The best part was we had a police escort.
Peace,
Kevin
Hard to belive it, but it's true. #8295, running on the S79 route today WAS REPOWERED!!! It's missing the label in the back that says mta-new york city bus and a yukon sticker on the passenger side. But it looked good. Also caught sight of #4894,#8302 and #8314 on the S79 route. My complaint is, if Yukon only runs the S61 and S79 on weekends, isnt it easier to put only Orion V buses on those lines instead of the rts buses?
#8295-S79
#7532-B1
So they are repowering those RTS's. I guess they are not going anywhere anytime soon. I remember riding an RTS on the S78 a few years ago, it rattled alot. I got the impression SI's RTS's are not in the best shape.
It was probably the RTSs that were famous for the dumping ground in SI, like the 1200s-1600s and 2200s-2700s
the #1600 series were taken very good care of at Castleton. Yukon had #1606-#1623 and treated them TERRIBLY.
yukon orions 6327-6349, a total of twenty three are not enough even for weekend service. 8310 and 8305 have also been repowered.
what staten island should do is send #471-#504 from Castleton to Yukon and when the Orion V express buses are converted, move them to local service, replacing any RTS that isnt 8300's.
B64-#4769
In a move that would make George A. Bush proud, there will be no new (local) buses (instead of taxes, get it?) entering TA service in 2002. Nada. Zilch. Zero!! There are, however, 120 MCI's set to arrive, with the first 20 (2805-2824) SHEDULED to hit Yukon next week!! The other 100 are due in June 2002. The recipients have not yet been determined, but look for Queens to finally get theirs.
As many of you know the Orion VII, 7560 failed shaker table tests, and among its other problems, has windshield challenges. It has since been sent back to Orion so that they can go back to the drawing board. New Flyer has fallen out of favor due to air conditioning problems, so no new artics next year either
In the meantime, the TA must continue to operate pre-1987 RTS's. As for the Orion and Nova seat conversions, only 40 (I don't know which 40) will be getting "re-seated". The repowering program must continue on the 1990 and 1993 RTS's. On that subject, all of Stengel's local Orions are now repowered; about 15 express are still yet to be done. On the RTS side, Flatbush's 8159 and 8322 have joined the Series 50 ranks.
Mark
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS! Long live the RTS baby!!!!!!!!!!
Whooooooooooooooo! PA1767 may make her 20th birthday after all!
well nyct may have to make an emergency purchase from novabus. why is it the big cities all of a sudden have stopped purchasing the old reliable rts?
I don't know; I think the RTS is perhaps the best-looking new bus still made....I always loved its sleek design. If I can't have a new Flxible Metro, I'll take an RTS over the latest crackerboxes any day.
-Fred
It's great to think that 20-year-old RTSes are still in service; they look just as new now as they did back then. Oh yes, and the fact that the first RTS turns antique next year makes me feel old!
-Fred
i think that Yukon should fix up their orion buses. if you notice these modesl(#6326-#6349)-they had the worst scratched windows plus inside they are scratched in the back wall(which i saw today on #6340)-let Yukon update these buses if there are to be no new buses at least for awahile.
I assume they are Plexi windows? We have the same problem on our restored 76 Flx New Look; everything else looks great except for those scratched-up windows, veterans of a quarter-century worth of bus washes. We also have a 74 AM General from WMATA (part of the very first AMG order!) that awaits restoration (along with most of our poor neglected collection that was "rescued" from a fellow museum) and the Plex windows on that are just HORRIBLE...they are like slates of chalk!
Hopefully we can replace them someday, but for now will have to grin and bear it, at least for the next four years. After all, we are a museum....
-Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Fred,
Have you all considered using glass in your restored new look buses since their show pieces now? Although NYCTA has been using the plexiglass for many years - I do remember a few of the buses actually having glass windows.
Wayne
So the reign of the T8Js will continue in NYC, thanks to the fact that modern-day manufacturers can't seem to get their acts together. (Nova-build quaility problems since 1999, Orion-VII series going belly up and should stick with the V series instead, New Flyer-A/C issues on D60s and the like, who will come to the rescue???)
Please, the piece of $hit 1984-1987 RTS GMC's are the worst buses in NYC. Their engine is the best?, they are slow as hell, and sound so cheap. Not only that, they are so uncomfortable because you feel every bump it hits, and that annoying shaking every time,(crappy ass 3669).
The only reason why I'm glad that the Orion7 failed, is so that I can still see all the TMC's and Novas eveywhere. QV is doing the right thing using mostly their 83--'s, 93--'s, and 49--'s, on their routes. I'm glad QV hides those pitiful 39--'s and 41--'s(crappy ass 4045 should die!). Long live TMC's and Novas!!!
However I'm glad to see the 7000-7049, and 7500-7559 still around, they will outlast the rest of the GMC's.
-
All 85'GMC's should die!
Hmm...not a fan of GMCs, I presume? Does that mean the TMCs and NOVAs were built better than the General Motors originals? The only RTSes I have ever rode were the 1989 TMC examples at Blacksburg and they seemed to be nice-riding buses.
-F.
The TMC's were built very well, especially the 1990-1993 ones. The Novas are also good, at least until 1999. Something bad was taking place either in Roswell (no alien jokes please) or in Canada, where the RTS is assembled. They wound up delivering larger orders to TAs too quick, and that resulted in reports of buses rattling like crazy or looking like Hell. Particularly NJTs newer RTS fleets and NYCTs 1999 RTS fleet.
As stated before, are there any good bus manufacturers left?
NJT's RTS's use the loud Cummins engine which doesn't help. As to why NJT didn't go with the DD Series 50 in those buses is anybody's guess.
And lemme tell you those RTS's are LOUD.
Hmm....that's funny; our 1994 Series 50 Gilligs are loud and clanky, while the new 2001 Cummins ISL-powered versions are smooth and quieter on takeoff. What series of Cummins is in the NJT RTSes?
-F.
IIRC, NJT's RTSs use the C8.3 CELECT plant. It's quick but rough especially when shifting in gear.
Is that a four-cylinder engine? I have found that sixes are usually smoother and quieter.
-F.
Don't know for sure. Look into the Cummins website for more info.
MCI seems to be okay; I don't need to tell you what they need to reintroduce to bring sleek styling back to transits because we all know what it is. I know I will get some real rants for this, but Gilligs seem to be solid and last for many years. RTSes are good but we don't know what will become of those. If bus manufacturers continue to fall then our cities will have no choice but to go back to older buses such as Fishbowls and rehab them every 10 to 15 years a la TTC in Toronto.
If that is the case, maybe all of this mess will be a blessing in disguise. I'd LOVE to see Flxibles and the like stay on the road in regular service for the next several years.
-F.
While I was at Zerega depot, I was told that T/A found over 100 violations with the Orion VII. It doesn't look like it will ever be back, however, what is the story with the 60 Hybrid Electrics QV is supposed to be getting in 2002? Those are local buses. Since nobody can build a quality bus that transit can use, and since they don't want to purchase any more diesel RTS's, perhaps this would be a good time for MCI to bring out the Flxible Metro, in electric, which is on the drawing boards anyway from what you guys have been saying. Perhaps transit can test that, and probably like it also.
BIG AL
What about more Orion V's? They have done OK. Just stay away from those Cummins engines (unless you like engines that do funny things).
There's nothing more funny than a Cummins that starts to accellerate gets stuck and starts again (grsshhh,burp, grssshhh). The L10G does this alot.
Our ISLs (modern-day L10s) here are brand new and do not seem to do that; maybe they have impreoved over the past few years?
-F.
Just wait a few years. After a few years the Cummins start getting tired and have problems.
Uh-oh...that's not good. However, our recently retired Skillcraft 25-footers with Cummins inline sixes ran strong all the way to the end. The buses were stubby and pure crap, but the engines were good, although they sounded like large, droning sewing machines.
-F.
Oh yes, and these were 1988 models, so they were 13 years old and still running strong, even though everybody hated them.
-F.
Damned right. I REALLY hope the Metro returns; hell, I'll draw it FOR them if I have to. Lemme at that board!
-F.
You know what as much as I like the MTA...This shit makes no damn sense.
The Orion 7 is a dud....New Flyer's Artics don't have good HVAC (Which is a crock of shit and even then NFI is fixing the problem)....MTA doesn't want to demo a NABI or even a Neoplan 40 footer (WHY, YOU FUCKING IDIOTS) YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONS IT SEEMS. Or Better yet, since you are not please with what the industry is pumping out. WHY don't you just take the 43xx to 48xx RTS and Midwest them, You Know add in a Series 50 make EPA ready.
I mean now ya'll don't even want to reseat the express buses which will really because usuless next year when the rest of the MCI Cruisers show up.
WHERE ARE YOUR BRAINS AT, LET ME UP THERE FOR ONE MONTH, JUST ONE!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
"One Angry Ass Fan"
I agree! The MTA should have NABI's and a Neoplan here or there but I would take a NABI 40ft bus anyday. Oh, a NABI with a cummins Engine...not like that crap in DD50 in SEPTA (No ofense PA guys)
Ray
The MTA ordered so many NFs and Orions that to go with a Neoplan AN460 would be suicide, both to the bus itself and to the depot that gets it. No parts interchangability between a D60HF and an AN460. They should went with what worked for the rest of the transit industry in the beginning.
Yep, that's just about right, there are knuckleheads working at Jay St. and Madison Av.
I think they need to stick with the RTS. Perhaps that will keep the design alive for a little while.
-F.
Very, very disturbing news. Almost half of Fresh Ponds buses are 1985's and 1987's. 16 and 14 year old buses. And if you add in the 1990's (OK, they're getting repowered), but still these are 11 years old, and now that adds up to well over half of their buses can be considered "old". And with no new buses on the horizon, I have no idea how they can make service. Long term o/s 1987's outside the depot: 4702, 4732, 4734, 4739. And that number will keep growing.
I hear ya Bill. Why the hell do people like us have to suffer with the same crappy old buses every time.People who live near Fresh Pond will NEVER see anything new. Fresh Pond always gets dumped with garbage, and whoever calls the 3986, 3987, 3995,and 3997 "Gifts" from East New York should be Shot! Calling them piece of $hit rejects is acceptable though. And why the ƒuck did FP Depot waist money to build a new facility at the back? To fix $hitty RTS 87'GMC's? IDIOTS!!!!!! Now that that the RTS may not be built anymore, we will suffer dearly.
-
All RTS 85'GMC's must die!
The purpose of the work at Fresh Pond was several-fold:
1. Rehabilitate the existing building and convert it to a storage facility in order to increase capacity and store all buses indoors.
2. Create a modern maintenance facility to replace the outmoded one in the existing building.
3. Create office space for the Brooklyn Bus Division, which had been housed at the East New York facility and previously in an office building in Long Island City.
Decisions about capital work at Department of Buses facilities are not made at the depot level. The department has a facilities planning section that does such work in conjunction with the Department of Capital Program Management.
David
To everyone who lives near FP, why do we get treated like crap? Why do we have to depend on the 4600's and 4700's while every other depot gets to use TMC's and Novas. Is our area not good enough for them? And what do some of you have against the 9100's? Are you saying they are not reliable, that they constantly need repairing, that they will not last long? Then why is that I seen the 4672 get towed away, the 4724 breaking down, and the 4692 having its engine on fire? And how many times do you see the 9100's being used? All the time! Not only that some of the FP b/o's prefer them a lot more over the 4600's and 4700's. IMO opinion the 9100's are very reliable, that is why you see the Q58 loaded with them. FP would be better off converting to TMC's and Nova's, not 1987 rejects and older. I'm sorry to say this RTS GMC's fans, but old RTS will not make FP better. SO 1981-1987GMC's, they the hell away from my area!
-
All RTS 85'GMC's must die!
UP is getting a lot of the 9200s and 9300s express. this is my opion of the buses Up has:
4753-4792=ex buses from Amsterdam-YUCK.
4854-4872=ex buses from Castleton-slow.
7511-7534=ex buses from East new York(refurbished).
9077-9110=NOVABUS. Very nice.
9295-9344=ex express buses. putting them on local lines,MISTAKE.
If i worked at UP, i would try to do a swap. Here is what i would do:
take 7500-7510 from FLA and send them to UP.
take 7534-7555 from Manhatthan and send them to Up and send 4854-4872 to Manhattan.
then the roster would look like this
4753-4792
7500-7534
9077-9110
9295-9344.
any opinions?
Thank you caine824 for supporting the 1996 RTS Novas. Now if I was able to change Fresh Pond's bus fleet, here's what I would have.
Swap ENY's 8100's, 9000's and dump them with the 4600's
Take Hudson Pier's 9606-9618, and give them the 4700's
Swap KB's 9100's, and dump them with our crap.
This would be the roster:
8000-8017, 8091-8097, 8099
8100-8136, 8139, 8141, 8147, 8151-8153, 8155, 8157-8158, 8160-8161, 8166-8171
9030-9033, 9035-9036, 9040-9041, 9048, 9052, 9057-9064, 9066-9069, 9071, 9074-9076.
9111-9186
9569-9618
5055-5074
Fresh Pond would be better like this. My area would be great!
-
All RTS 85'GMC's must die!
-Jay
That would be good for FP. but I doubt if the Centrl Staff for the Dept. of Buses would go along with dumping FP junk to someone else!
I have no opinion but can offer a fact...
Bus transfers between depots are not orchestrated by the depots. Such decisions are made by Department of Buses central staff.
David
On thing I would llke to see done is for the Central Staff for the Dept. of Buses to swap some of those UP unneeded soft seaters (before their seats are all shot to hell) to Quill for use on the M98. That route is a rush hour only limited stop local service where you don't have the usual low life vandals riding on.
Any bus 4600-4800 are TMCs.
You really need to stop crying about the way Fresh Pond is treated. If you would pay attention to the roster, you would see that Fresh Pond is not the only depot to operate 1987 buses. Hell, they have a better roster than Jamaica & QV. How many 1985 buses does F.P. have? 6? How many 1986 buses does F.P. have? 0. Look at all the 3900's QV is dealing with. Not to mention all the crap box 4100's they were sent. Look at all the 1986 buses Jamaica has? Try 45 plus about 10 1985 41 & 4200 buses. There are currently 11 depots operating an abundance of 1985-1987 RTS's. Check out ENY and Flatbush depots. Look at MHV depot.
The ratio of old to new buses in F.P.looks about the same as in QV and Jamaica so stop whining that F.P. is being singled out as the only depot in the system to have to deal with pre-1990 RTS's.
BIG AL
Nobody has 101 buses from 1987 except Fresh Pond! Add the 7 from 1985 and you have 108 out of 252 buses which are very old. Add the 41 from 1990 (11 years old) and that brings it up to 149 buses more than 11 years old, out of a fleet of 252. That means only 103 buses in FP which are less than 11 years old!.........By contrast Jamaica has 52 old buses out of 160 locals, and 108 from 1996 and later. I would say that the average age of fleet is much higher at Jamaica.
But Fresh Pond doesn't have to deal with hardly any 1985 & 1986 buses. I would rather have the 1987 buses than the 1985 & 1986 buses any day. And any operator will tell you the ride with the TMC 1987's is much better than the hard ride of the GMC 1985 & 1986's.
BIG AL
Several drivers have told me that the 1987's handle a lot better in ice and snow than the 1990's and later.
Just my two cents worth on the RTS and NABIs. Here in Miami, we bought 260 GMC RTS buses in 1980 and were retired in 1999. We also run Flxibles, NABI Low Floor and High Floors and Ikarus artics.
The RTS has been the most durable and reliable bus we've run. No doubt about its durability, it has been unmatched. No wonder NYC still runs them. And it's true also that the driver's compartment is outdated. Early Flxibles, Flyers, and Gilligs had the same problem. I found them ok if I could get the seat low enough. You look at modern day driver's areas on NABIs and you realize what true comfort is. But again the NABI is a modern bus.
Ikarus artics are the worst buses we have bought. To top that, they have Cummins M11 motors which can't handle our summer weather. They are rusting, falling apart, and are prone to electrical problems and a/c failures. Their Recaro seats didn't last long and the driver's area is cramped and have loose panels.
The NABI low and high floors are just the opposite. NABI has done a good job to shed the Ikarus image and Americanize their product. We have four different series of NABIs and each has been an improvement over the others. The driver's compartment is roomy and confortable. The top of the line USSC seat is superb. Our lates 2000 series low floors with the DD 50 engine has car like accelaration. They are FAST.
Now how does a NABI compare to the RTS? No comparison, the NABI is a modern comfortable bus, the RTS is an outdated but much more durable bus. Build quality on the NABI is much improved but still suspect, so unless some modifications are made, the NABI wouldn't last too long in New York. Though the NABI LF frame is made of stainless steel, some body panels and moldings are "glued" on. I have no doubt, New York bus operators will fall in love with the NABIs in time, though.
We also run a sizeble Flxible fleet. They are outfitted with quite a few powertrain combinations. The body on them withstood whatever we threw at them, but the older Metros do leak rainwater alot. They were as reliable as its powertrain. The Cummins L10 were relible while the M11 and ISC fitted ones are prone to breakdowns.
In our NABIs now, we buy exclusively DD 50/Allison.
Joe from Miami
Having visited Joe in Miami on numerous occasions and toured MDTA depots, I can vouch for what he is saying about the NABI's. My only wish is that NYCT DOB would at least give both NABI and Neoplan a chance of marketing their buses.
I'm sorry BIG AL, but it would be nice to see FP order some newer buses for a change, I'm not saying that FP should have everything newer than the other depots, but it would be nice to see some more true TMC's(1990' and up) and Novas. Even 10 would satisfy me, but my patience is running out. You see, Ridgewood and Maspeth are nearly
dominated by Fresh Pond buses, so most of the routes are are Fresh Pond. The only other routes that that are not Fresh Pond are the Q67(Queens Surface) and the Q38(Triboro) & Q39(Triboro). The nearest NYCT route from me, thats not Fresh Pond is the Q56(ENY). However I don't want to go over the BIG HILL(Cypress Hills cemetery) just to ride it. So whatever FP orders, is what my area gets. That's why I'm hoping for newer buses, I will see nothing else but FP buses.
-
All RTS 85'GMC's must die!
-Jay
Again: NYCT depots do not order buses. NYCT depots do not transfer buses. NYCT depots do not scrap buses. These decisions are made by the office of the Chief Transportation Officer.
David
That should be Chief Maintenance Officer, not Chief Transportation Officer.
David
Well said BIG AL. It is a fact that QV operates the most 1985 RTS's in the entire city (46)! It is also a fact that JAM operates the most 1986 RTS's in the city (45)! I'll give you one more. QV operates the most Reman buses (which are really 1981-82 RTS's) in the city (37), and they run the most 1982 RTS's as well (4).
Looks like Queens Division has the city beat when it comes to old buses. I don't want to point fingers, but despite their aging fleets QV and JAM are still number 1 and 2 in MDBF (Mean Distance Between Failures). Number three was 126 followed by FLA. Where's FP on that list? I don't know I didn't look that far down.
Mark
This list is incorrect, the average age of Flatbush's bus fleet is not older than Fresh Pond's. Look at Trevor's bus roster that he just posted to see what I mean.
Right now I'm going ride the B13 to Palmetto St.. I hope I get one of the 9500's.I will be back later.
-Jay
He wasn't comparing the AGE of FLA and FP's buses, he was comparing the MDBF rate of the two depots. FLA has a higher MDBF rating than FP which judging by Merrick's comments is pretty low. So perhaps there's a reason your area is getting all of those so called clunkers. And hey, if you don't like the RTS buses that are out there, there's always the subway.
I like RTS buses, but FP gets the same old thing every time. I'm not mad at the fact that FP is getting old buses. I'm mad that that's all FP gets, nothing else. I would like to ride the subway, but the only one near me is the M-Train, so I must depend on FP buses. ENY gets the 4629-4652, but thats ok because they have so many other buses to make up for it. And trust me, I know how QV is, I ride the Q46 a lot. They get dumped too, but at least they got the 611-630 from Castleton, and the 9286-9290, 9292-9294 from Ulmer Park. Plus QV doesn't use their 85'GMC's and 86'GMC's that much. I usually see the 8300's, 9300's, 4900's and Orion Suburbans. Being patient with FP is very hard. And also, because of Orion7 failing, FP will stay the way it is next year. And I know the suburban conversion will replace most of the 85'GMC's in 2002, so I have the patience to wait for QV to get rid of them.
B13-RTS Nova #5067
Q55-RTS Nova #9153
-
All RTS 85'GMC's must die!
Man, alot of old RTS haters here. I also live in the Fresh Pond depot service region. I'm completely happy with the old RTS's they use. Just look how fortunate QV is to have the 17XX's, or even Yukon to have 2606,and the 2770. Bring them all to Fresh Pond! I'm getting tired hunting these buses in other depots. My all time favorite (post GMC&Flx New Looks) buses were the 32XX series. They had those cool windows that were flush with the bodies. These buses also had the 6v71 engines. I miss the sound of that engine. Fresh Pond also had plenty of these buses at one time. I wish several would be kept in service.
It may sound odd that I like old buses, but truthfully, when the Series 50 engine came out, for me it was the death of transit buses. I hate that damn engine. It sounds like crap in every bus that houses it. I know it is a good state of the art engine, but I'll never embrace it. Well the CNG version does not sound too bad! My favorite bus engines are 6v71,6v92,8v71(The king of them all), and M-11 cummins diesel.
Amen...I LOVE the Detroit Diesels! I was reminded of that yesterday when we took our museum buses out for a spin yesterday; a 79 Grumman 870 with a 6v71, and a 76 Flx New Look with an 8v71. As I rode a bus to work yesterday, one of our TA's 91 Gilligs roared past as only a 6v92 can. I LOVE those engines and wish they were still around.
On the bright side, I do like the Cummins ISL....that is a nice, smooth engine and a marked improvement over the clanky Series 50.
-F.
Here's a caveat for you 6v71 lovers. Last night I was waiting to pick my dad up outside Harlem Hospital. An RTS with the standard door design (not the cut-in version that NYCT uses) pulls up beside the Orion V working the #3 shuttle service. It's in NYU Colors, but has Columbia University stickers up on the bulkhead (a sign of its use in the Univeristy's upper Manhattan shuttle service). It pulls up alongside the car I'm sitting in, and upon pickup I could tell it was a T8H-206. The sound of that engine I haven't heard since riding the #3009 on the B41 a few years back.
Try looking for that bus. If its working the Columbia shuttle, it shouldbe aroun for awhile.
Very nice. A true testimony to my favorite workhorse!
-F.
I can't figure out how you can say that Fresh Pond keeps getting nothing but old buses. F.P. has over 100 1996-1999 RTS's and about 41 1990 RTS's. In my opinion the 1987 4600-4800 series RTS's are in still pretty decent condition. And the 99 1987 RTS's that F.P. has seem to be in very good condition since I paid F.P. a visit today and looked at their inventory myself. I've heard that the maintainence is rather below avg. on their buses, however they still have a newer inventory of buses than Jamaica & Q.V. The entire day, I only saw 2 1985 buses on the road from F.P., 3918 & 3986 which I think was just sent over from ENY. The rest of the buses on the road during the non rush hour was primarily Novas. The few 4700s I saw running seemed to be in top condition, unlike the older 39, 41, 42, 43 & 4500 series buses that Jamaica & QV depots are stuck with.
BIG AL
I can't figure out how you can say that Fresh Pond keeps getting nothing but old buses. F.P. has over 100 1996-1999 RTS's and about 41 1990 RTS's. In my opinion the 1987 4600-4800 series RTS's are still in pretty decent condition. And the 99 1987 RTS's that F.P. has seem to be in very good condition since I paid F.P. a visit today and looked at their inventory myself. I've heard that the maintainence is rather below avg. on their buses, however they still have a newer inventory of buses than Jamaica & Q.V. The entire day, I only saw 2 1985 buses on the road from F.P., 3918 & 3986 which I think was just sent over from ENY. The rest of the buses on the road during the non rush hour was primarily Novas. The few 4700s I saw running seemed to be in top condition, unlike the older 39, 41, 42, 43 & 4500 series buses that Jamaica & QV depots are stuck with.
BIG AL
Manhattan aside, it appears that the 'better' maintenance department a depot employs, the worse buses transportation receives. That is, to say, since Jamaica and Queens Village have above average maintenance departments, we're subjected to operate below average buses.... which is the official response from the NYCTA as opposed to the politicaly incorrect reply which would probably be.... who cares about southeast Queens, unless you're coming to Manhattan (express service).
"who cares about southeast Queens, unless you're coming to Manhattan (express service). "
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If sending those ex-SI Orions is caring, then no thanks! :-)
3918 has been at FP for a while now. 3986 is an addition from ENY.
3990 and 4045 came from ENY and are now at QV. Only "oldie" at ENY is 3669 and that should be at QV-LOL. They have everything else old.
#4045 Q46
About 16 years ago to date, GMC RTS #4014 pulled into ENY depot for the first time. Originally, 3985-4070 were the 1985 RTS's that were assigned to ENY. Of those buses, only #4014 remains in service. Its 16 years at one depot is the longest of all the buses in the entire city! ENY's other old bus, 3669, spent most of its life at Ulmer Park.
Here's some more longevity. In 1984, the TA pulled the Grumman 870's from service. As a result, QV lost soft seaters #393-401. Immediately, the TA moved 1982 RTS's PA1759-PA1768 from Fifth Avenue Depot (now Gleason) to Queens Village. Of those ten buses, only PA1767 remains going strong. Even though that's 17 years at The Ville, it is not a QV original. Bus 4014 is an ENY original.
Just a little history for ya!
Mark
What about 1751? This bus is still in service at QV, but you didn't mention it above. What's the origin of 1751?
1751, I believe, came from Casey Stengel depot, along with my old friend 1746, which went to Jamaica depot instead.
BIG AL
Nope, 1751 was an original Jamaica Depot bus, along with 1752-1758.
Mark
Wait, I thought 1746-1756 were the originals for Jamaica? Buses 1734-1745 were with Flushing (Casey Stengel) and buses 1757-1767 were with Queens Village. Didn't buses 1768-1770 BRIEFLY serve QV until they were shipped to Jackie Gleason?
Ray
I never said anything about FLA's average age of their fleet. I said they have a better maintenance record than FP (who doesn't).
Mark
You should only be so lucky to have RTS's from 1987.
I have to drive a 1980 version every day. That's right, a 21-year old RTS -- but our fleet is still going strong, even at that ripe old age.
Wow...where are these RTSes? 1980 models still in service....that's impressive! Are they slopeback or squareback? And do you have pics of these as well?
-F.
I visited Southern California back in September and was fortunate to take a tour of Orange County Transit together with Steve Hoskins. Even though I absolutely loathe the RTS, I was impressed with their 1980 vintage models.The buses are squarebacks and are in incredible condition for their age. I have some photos but I have no way of posting them since I don't own a scanner.
In 1999 during a layover at Santa Ana's Orange County/John Wayne airport I decided to venture outdoors just in time to see an OCTA RTS 03 series roll through. I think it had a DD 6V-92 engine.
Wayne
Perhaps you'd like some of the new CNG Orions from M.T.A. Long Island Bus? In my opinion, switching to CNG as quick as they did was one of the dumbest things they could have done, and while the RTS isn't my favorite style of bus (I like the Fishbowl much more), I'd prefer an RTS (or Flxible Metro) over an Orion any day of the week. They put absolutely no thought into designing the Orion. One of the ugliest bus designs I've seen yet. It's a BOX! The RTS's L.I. Bus got from the city saw little use (though some were redone in the blue, orange and white paint scheme), and as soon as more of CNG's were sent in, they all got scrapped, along with any of the remaining city Fishbowls.
I can agree with you on a lot of this; when I went to DC and saw their beautiful Metros, I looked over at an Orion at an intersection and almost barfed. That square, thoughtless styling with that bubble windshield...UGH! The Orion Vs, however, have sort of grow on me; they look better than a lot of what's out there today, especially their own VI and VII. I'd have to say that Gilligs look a little better than they do though; they look more proportionate in design.
-F.
To everyone who lives near FP, why do we get treated like crap? Why do we have to depend on the 4600's and 4700's while every other depot gets to use TMC's and Novas. Is our area not good enough for them? And what do some of you have against the 9100's? Are you saying they are not reliable, that they constantly need repairing, that they will not last long? Then why is that I seen the 4672 get towed away, the 4724 breaking down, and the 4692 having its engine on fire? And how many times do you see the 9100's being used? All the time! Not only that some of the FP b/o's prefer them a lot more over the 4600's and 4700's. In my opinion the 9100's are very reliable, that is why you see the Q58 loaded with them. FP would be better off converting to TMC's and Nova's, not 1987 rejects and older. I'm sorry to say this RTS GMC's fans, but old RTS will not make FP better. SO 1981-1987GMC's, they the hell away from my area!
-
All RTS 85'GMC's must die!
For the years 1994-1997, Yukon was the dumping ground of all 1981-1983 RTSs, so I know what you are saying.
and in the early 90s right before retirement several flxible 9000s from all over the city made their last trip from yukon as well as blitz buses.
I get tired of people complaining about getting old buses. They're obviously still there because they run so GOOD, you just can't see that because you're merely an observer with a one sided view. Also, those buses are most likely used on route in low income areas. New buses shouldn't go in poor areas, a lesson well learned by Metro's NEWEST bus, D40LF #3535 already with a broken window. GOOD JOB GUYS!!!!! Anyway, those pieces of shit get you where you're going to be pushing 17 so cut them some slack.
Amen. There ya go!
-F.
Is this the most backward transit bus system in the country run by absolute morons or what? I travel extensively around the US and am constantly in awe when I see the modern state of the art transit bus fleets of other cities. Los Angeles is rapidly modernizing their fleet with NABI's and New Flyers, Miami is upgrading their fleet with a huge order of NABI low floors and Seattle is constatntly upgrading their fleet with state of the art buses. New York, the supposed center of the universe, is till in the Stone Age with a fleet comprised of mostly decrepit 10-16 year old RTS's. These buses should be laying on their sides in a scrapyard! HELLO NYCT DOB, EVER HEAR OF NABI OR NEOPLAN? Even the repowering program is a joke. All they are doing is basically slapping a new engine into a 10 year old beat to shit bus and doing nothing else. So, the end result is a rattling still decrepit bus with a new engine. Wow, what an improvement! As for all you lovers of vinatge RTS buses, all I can say is try spending 9-10 hours behind the wheel of one of these shit boxes 5 days a week and then come back and tell me how much you love them. Lastly, please, please don't rebuild the older RTS's at Midwest. The 7500 series Midwest rebuilds have to be some of the worst buses in the fleet. They are an absolute nightmare to drive!
NOTE TO RAY AND TREVOR: LOL! I told you guys 126 will never see artics! The whole thing is an absolute farce!
You're not the only one with issues over NYCT's aging RTS fleet. As stated in a previous post, when I rode the Bee-Lines Orion Vs, I felt that they bested NYCTs 1999 Orion V fleet. And the ones the Bee-Line has were made in 1995! Seeing this, and facing having to ride the pre-1985 RTS again was rather depressing.
Chalk this up to the fact that NYCT is almost apt to take crap from just about anyone (and in RIPTA's case, dole it out as well), and that due to NYCDOTs inability to keep the roads well-maintained a lot of buses that come this way are run-into-the-ground and fast. This is a trend that will not stop anytime soon (just ask FP and QV depots).
They may be hel to drive (for you, it's still my dream), but to have a 20 year old bus rolling around the pot hole ridden streets of NYC is a testament of their reliabilty. Sure they're decrepid, but they're running. I bet all of those "state of the art" buses won't see long years like the RTS. They're just not built up to standards. As for Neoplans. They suck. They're slow and they're body ages three times as fast as any other bus. Woe is NYC is one of those cracker boxes ever shows up.
I wager you this D60, if GMC or TMC still built the RTS, there wouldn't be too many NABIs rolling around.
Amen to that. If a newer design such as the RTS has survived NYC streets for over 20 years, it is truly a proven design.
-F.
I agree with you about the durability and reliability of the RTS. It has no peers when it comes to that. If only GM hadn't designed the driver's compartment as an after thought then you wouldn't hear a peep out of me about the RTS. Ideally, it would be great if it was possible to redesign the RTS's driver's compartment to make it more spacious and rearrange the controls so that they are more ergonomically correct. With these changes in place, the RTS would then become the perfect transit bus.
I never understood why some TAs didn't order the RTS with that feature. But in Houston, it seemed the driver's compartment was as spacious as any other's sans the Ikarus (NABI) which drivers hate as much as you hate the RTS.
Didn't Nova redesign the ergonomics? I have a 2000 model brochure and the dash looks COMPLETELY different from previous models of RTS.
I should know; I have served time at the bridge of the 1989 TMC version. :)
-F.
The 1999 RTS's purchased by NYCT DOB probably had the best ergonomics of the bunch. At least they eliminated that stupid side panel with controls that require you to wedge your hand into in order to reach them. Frankly, and I know this is blasphemy to RTS fans, I always thought that the RTS WFD had the best drivers compartment of the RTS family. It is totally different from the standard RTS and much more driver friendly. Also, the front mounted wheelchair lift would have been so much easier to use since you can't properly pull into the majority of bus stops in Manhattan to deploy the rear mounted one.
It's not hard to believe....they've been earmarked for the conversion all along.
I know this is pretty basic to many of you, but could someone explain to me why there are RTS buses made by GMC, Nova, and TMC. Did one company license the design to the others? Were all three companies building them at the same time or one after another? I have the same questions concerning the GM and Flxible New Looks.
Tom
The Rapid Transit Series (RTS) design is original to the General Motors Truck and Bus Group. The first designs of the bus started to take shape as early as 1965; GM begun full production of the RTS in 1977 as a replacement for the New Look.
In 1987, GM ceased producing transit buses. However, the RTS design was very popular, and there was enough demand for the RTS for another company to continue to produce it. GM sold the design to Transportation Manufacturing Corportation (TMC) of Roswell, NM. TMC was or had been affiliated with MCI. TMC immediately began producing RTSs (much unlike what MCI has done with the Flxible Metro design to which they own the rights.) In fact, for the 1987 model year, there are both GMC and TMC RTSs.
In 1995, TMC went out of business. Once again, though, the RTS design was far too popular for TMC to take it down with it. The RTS design was sold once again, this time to the up-and-coming French-Canadian firm NovaBUS. NovaBUS continues to produce the RTS to this day. However, various changes of ownership at NovaBUS have imperiled the continued production of the RTS. I would guess, though, that RTS production will continue for years to come - even with the low floor craze, there is still a very real demand for quality standard-floor buses.
Regarding the New Looks, GM released their first New Look in 1959. Production of that model and similar models continued through 1976 in the US, and through 1986 in Canada. Other than looking somewhat similar, the Flxible New Look was a completely different production from the GM. Flxible produced its New Look from about 1963 to 1977. I believe there may have been a lawsuit against Flxible from GM due to the similarity in design between these competing products.
Actually, no; Flxible brought a lawsuit on GM for disallowing them to use a V-drive setup for their New Looks (produced from 1961 to 1978). They gained victory in 1967; all pre-67 Flxes are T-drive, while 67 and later models share the exact same rear subframe and drive team as the Fishbowls, in both 96 and 102" versions.
More interesting notes:
-The 1960 Flxible transit was an "Old Look" design with the New Look front end. Chicago has preserved the only known example of this bus. It's a hell of a hybrid!
-Flxible purchased Twin Coach in 1952 (ever wonder where the New Look's six-piece windshield came from?). As part of the agreement, all Flx transits for the next 10 years were to carry both Flx and Twin Coach nameplates. The first (1961-62) New Looks are also Flxible Twin Coaches!
-The Fishbowl was actually produced here through 1977, IIRC; Ft. Wayne, IN received a fleet of them brand new then with A/C. Most (if not all) Canadian New Looks were sans A/C units (think about the geography of their homeland...it takes away from their styling but makes sense).
-On the continuing story of RTS production, did you know that NovaBUS is now owned by Volvo? All new RTSes now have "VOLVO" stamped into the accelerator pedals. GM, TMC, Nova, Volvo. Who's next?
I had no idea the RTS was first designed in 1965; I have heard 1967 and saw a pic of the RTX prototype from 1968. It's a six-wheeled slopeback version....very bizarre for the time! Also, I have seen pics of the TransBus version of the earlier 1970s. Imagine an RTS with big, gawky chrome-ringed rounded headlights...what a MUTANT!
-F.
What I didn't know (up until recently) was that GM was producing the Old Look in a 30-foot version as late as 1968! It's unusual to see an Old Look with the dual headlamps. Does anyone know of a transit agency that bought the last of them, and possibly still has one lying around somewhere? Some of the later models had a roof-mounted A/C not unlike the Fishbowl (NYCTA Old Look 3100 is like that). Also, did the RTX prototype utilize as much fiberglass as the production model some 10 years later?
I know Oklahoma City and Sioux City purchased some of the last Old Looks. OC's were air conditioned and SC's were not.
Yes, I do; try Hamilton, Ohio. I have seen (and been aboard) one of their 1968 Old Looks preserved at OMOT courtesy of the TARTA garage; it was really bizarre. Those were replaced in 1969 by the 3301, which was a 30' Fishbowl built with light-duty parts. Our TA here in Roanoke (known as Safety Motor Transit at the time) purchased Old Looks through 1965, and bought some of the first 3301s just four years later. That information may be found at www.omot.org.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commowealth Coach and Trolley Museum
[Does anyone know of a transit agency that bought the last of them]
According to the info at the omot web site, Sioux City, Iowa, bought the last of the 3502 models in February 1969.
Damn....1969? That is just BIZARRE to think that a very old 40s-looking design made it almost into the Seventies. They look WAY different from their New Look stablemates of the day.
-F.
According to a book about GM New Look buses (I think Iconographix is the publisher) in the late 50's GM had 85% of the public transit bus market. The FTC started hinting at an anti-trust lawsuit. In order to avoid a lengthy and costly suit, GM settled the case by selling tranny's and certain other parts at cost to Flxible for their buses so they could stay in business and GM not have an anti-trust problem.
Wasn't the transmission that was the issue - it was the engine. Detroit Diesel was a GM division, and as press of the day stated, the only way to get a DD 71-series engine was to have it gift-wrapped by a GMC bus. This is why so many other manufacturers of that era used Cummins diesels.
In addition, the anit trust lawsuit wasn't just about the engine. Greyhound, National City Lines, and Public Service NJ (among others) were named co-conspirators, because GM was their sole supplier of new buses thanks to "sweetheart" deals. Greyhound and PS in particular received model buses made specifically for them.
Testifying before Congress in the hearings were Flxible, Trailways, IC-Brill, and a few others. GM's initial response to the lawsuit was "We build a better bus!" Which was the truth - but it was the sweetheart deals and reluctance to sell Detroit Diesel engines to others that was the issue with the government.
What a scene that had to be. You are right about other engines being used by non-GM makers; in fact, the Flx New Looks bought by PenTran (Hampton, VA) between 1967 and 1969 were Cummins-powered. I'm not sure how they sounded, but I wouldn't trade it for the mighty roar of the DD 8V71 in the back of our restored 1976 PenTran Flx.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Fred...
You've got an 8V71 Flx from '76?!? Don't tell me it's got a VS-3 speed in it too.
Oh how I always wanted one of those.....
We had 245 of them in Baltimore at one time, and they're all gone now - - the best ride this city ever had on a bus! -sob- - - I think I have to go in the corner and cry now.
Yes, it does have a VS-3! It is a GREAT coach and a smooth, solid runner. It has proven quite dependable for museum runs and looks WONDERFUL in its newly restored original paint scheme. Hopefully I will have pics up soon. Tell me more about the Baltimores; are any still around somewhere? I'll bet they were good-looking buses!
Oh yes, and I hope to buy one someday for myself. :)
-Fred
I remember seeing Baltimore's last bunch fo Flxible new looks when I lived in the DC area in 1981-1982....they really looked sharp in the older blue/green paint scheme. From what I remember, there wasn't a scratch on anyof them!
I drove some 1976's with the VS-2's myself -- they could really move, especially with the 8V71 engine. My employer converted many of them to V730's in 1990 -- this limited the top speed to 58 miles an hour, but the buses could achieve that speed in a matter of two blocks!!
Those were truly great buses. Our 35-footers at Valley Metro were 1976 models also; they had the 6v71 with V730 but really hauled the mail as well. These were my favorite coaches of all time and were the very ones that got me into buses at quite a young age.
In fact, all of the staff at Valley Metro tell me those were the best fleet of vehicles in the entire history of our TA, which is a real testimony for one that began in 1887 with mule-drawn streetcars. I guess it also helps that the Flxibles never pooped in the streets while en route...LOL!
-F.
Hehehe, I love that last line about the Flxibles not pooping in the streets....but I had one do it once. Well, sort of. Had an oil pan come loose and all 26 quarts of oil then lubricated a major street. Fortunately, it wasn't raining, and our maintenance department was very quick getting out there with a few sacks of kitty litter.
The very first bus I ever drove in my life was 35-foot, 1972 Flxible. No power steering, 6V71 and a VS2-6 tranny. Other than the hard steering, it was pure fun.
Whoa...what an experience. I'll bet that was a bad scene for sure! Never heard of a Flx doing that before.
Sounds like your first drive was fun; which TA were these 72 Flxes located at?
-F.
Orange County TA in Southern California. We had nine of them delivered in 12/72. They were the only narrow Flxibles on the property, too -- the rest came wide.
Ooh, very nice; got pics of them? I'd love to see these.
-F.
I did have 35mm slides, but about tenyears ago I started finding I just didn't have time to keep up with shooting more or attending to the collection, so I did sell the entire transit bus collection off. There have been uploads by another photographer recently to alt.binaries.pictures.vehicles of these buses.
I see; please direct me to them if possible. Thanks!
-F.
I already did direct you (and everyone else) -- they were recently posted to alt.binaries.pictures.vehicles Usenet group.
>>> they were recently posted to alt.binaries.pictures.vehicles <<<
"Alt.binaries,pictures.vehicles" returns a bad address message. What is the URL to get there?
Tom
That is a Usenet newsgroup.
alt.binaries.pictures.vehicles is one of 30000 or so newsgroups on just about any subjectone can think of.
I guess most people think the "Internet" consists of only e-mail and http://www.abcdef.com......
(Why do I say this? I've mentioned that and other newsgroups before in here and everyone just comes back and says HUH?)
>>> I've mentioned that and other newsgroups before in here and everyone just comes back and says HUH? <<<
It's fine to say that it is a newsgroup, but does us no good if you keep it secret how to access it.
Tom
Use a newsreader. You probably already have one; try this link for starters. However, whatever newsreader you have installed by default is most likely garbage. If you plan on using Usenet newsgroups much, chances are you'll want to find a better newsreader.
That is EXACTLY what I am getting at, nobody in this board seems to even know what Usenet is. You use a newsreader to access it, like Microsoft Outlook Express, for example. (That's one I do NOtuse, invites too many viruses into your computer...I use Forte Afent, the full, paid-for version.
There were many of those for GM. In fact, they also bought streetcar companies in order to influence phaseout of trolleys in most cities by the 1940s in favor of buses. (Their selling point was valid, though; fresh after the shock of WWII, buses would be more practical for evacuation than trolley cars.)
Then, in the 1950s and 60s, GM tried to phase out buses and put people in more cars...while they were still building the Old Looks and Fishbowls that we all love!
GM ultimately got out of the bus business in the 1980s due to lack of profitability, despite the fact that their RTS design was (and still is) state of the art and well-known to major US cities. This was just after the failed attempts to sell diesel-powered cars from 1978 to 1985! And in recent years, they have made many valiant attempts to kill off gas-powered automobiles and go electric but so far have failed.
Hmm, let's see...phase out electric transit vehicles in favor of diesel power, then try to kill those off to move up to 70 times as many vehicles with gasoline (which is less clean-burning), then go BACK to diesel in CARS with less reliable four-cycle engines, and then go BACK to electric when practically nobody cares about it anymore. What a shrewd chameleon General Motors is.
-F.
I read something that on the StarTrans and Flxible Metros Replacements. There would be a order of 15 Buses to replace the StarTrans Buses. And they said a order to replace the Bee Line Flxibles could come by 2005-2007 and I don't find anything on the MCI 102A2 Buses but there in there someplace. Here's a link to a website I got the info from and it's part of something for 2002.
http://www.westchestergov.com/theBudget/books/Capitalpdf/cTRANS.pdf
Oh yea. There's something in there is that something on Bee Line to get 30 Foot Buses for some routes that can't take the load of the StarTrans(The StarTrans seats 20). BUT they buying the Cutaway VANS as a replacement to the StarTrans. Bee Line should look into the Cutaways that RO is getting and as for the 30 Foor Bus Order, They could look into Nova RTS 30 Foots. BUT I hope they don't order Orion7's to replace the Flxible Metros. They could get a New Flyer D40LF if they want a Low Floor Bus or maybe eather a Nova RTS or go back to ordering Orion5's.
I think styling-wise the RTS would be a novel replacement. Even better...don't replace the Flxes at ALL. They are GREAT buses and define Bee-Line all the way.
-F.
Maybe Bee Line would keep a FEW incase of any problems and those Flxibles at Bee Line are one of the LAST Flxibles without W/C Lifts. And Bee Line want's to have ALL BUSES with W/C Lifts by 2007-2010. Those Flxibles run VERRY GOOD and runs and sounds better then the MAN Artics that would be going out the door sooner then later.
I would miss the MAN Artics at Bee Line. I got on one on the 60 Line and it was PACKED inside when I got on and the ride in it was fine BUT the back door closed on the OLD man's shopping cart and 2 People where telling the driver to reopen the backdoor b/c it was so PACKED that some OLD People had to get off from the Back door. Maybe the NEW Neoplan AN460 ARTICS would have a back door sencer to prevent this from happin and to be glad that they getting NEW Artics with DD60 Engines.
Wait a minute...aren't the Flxes 1990 models, the very same year that ADA was passed, making lifts mandatory in all new transits?
-F.
They where order a FEW years before the ADA Bill was passed BUT they came in Late 1989 to 2nd Quarter of 1990. BUT they don't have W/C Lifts.
Hmm..interesting. So the ADA act must have come about in late 90 or closer to 91? Or perhaps the Flxes were late 89s delivered in 1990?
-F.
The Americans with Disabilities Act officially began to affect transit bus purchases in August 1990. Any order for new uses placed on or after 26.August.90 (or something like that) had to be accessible. So as long as the Bee Line Flxs were ordered before this (which they were) they were OK to not have lifts.
Oh, I see; so it was a "mid-year" thing. Thanks for the info!
-Fred
Who CARES if they don't have W/C lifts.That's killed many a good bus these passed few years and Bee Lines Flxibles look waaaaaaaay to good to go over something like that. Besides W/C lifts slow down the operation of the bus drastically. It's SUPPOSED to take 3-5 minutes to load a wheelchair but realistically it takes even longer. And then the lift gets stcuk! ARRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHH! I have nothing against disable patrons, but I hate those damned lifts. If I was idsabled I'd much rather ride a paratranist service than have to wheel myself to dangewrous bus stops anyway.
Ugh...paratransit. I HATE those. They aren't buses, they're just mutant vans. If I was to become disabled, I would really hate life if I couldn't ride a normal bus just like everyone else.
I agree; the Bee-Line Flxes are beautiful and define the TA to the letter. And lifts can EASILY be retrofitted in these buses. Our recently retired 1988 Gilligs were retrofitted with lifts just in their last few years of service. Surely the Flxes could benefit from such an addendum?
-F.
Oh, if only MCI would make more Metros to replace those...I wonder what they will get next.
-F.
If this topic was discussed already, I apologize in advance.
Sat.night my wife rented TRAFFIC starring Michael Douglas. It was very slow, draggy and had three stories about the drug trade running at once. You didn't know if they were or would be connected. Poor movie except for............
one scene where a fellow is crossing a two-way street in Tijuana, Mexico. About a block down is a Flxible New Look and behind it an RTS.
Did anyone see the movie and were my eyes correct ???????
>>> About a block down is a Flxible New Look and behind it an RTS.
Did anyone see the movie and were my eyes correct ??????? <<<
I did not see the movie, but there is no reason why you would not see those buses in Tijuana.
Here is an example (Note: I can get this site to load in IE, but not Netscape)
Tom
Yup...a LOT of Flx New Looks and others went off to other countries after their use in the US. In some nations, they need them so bad that people are actually fallinng out of the buses! No joke.
- F.
First, I thought that Traffic was an excellent movie. I do not recall the Tijuana buses, but I do remember seeing a San Diego Transit 40-foot Gillig Phantom (probably a 1200) shoot by in the back during some scene.
Ooh...time for me to see that movie. If it has a Flx, it's gotta be a winner!
Here is another sighting; I watched "Bullitt" again this weekend for the first time in 10 years. This time, I noticed a GM Fishbowl. I'm not sure if they were MUNI yet in 1968 but I do know it was in San Fransisco, which between the long slopes and the streetcars made for one hell of a classic car chase. For all you car nuts, Steve McQueen was in a brand new dark green Mustang GT fastback and the bad guys were in a jet black Dodge Charger. The chase lasts a good 20 minutes and is AWESOME!
One thing you will also notice in the movie is a "magic trick" by creative editing; the Charger has regenerating hubcaps as it loses 5 of them during the chase but they always reappear in the next scene. You sure wouldn't get away with that in movies these days!
-Fred Donaher
"The Coach Potato"
>>> One thing you will also notice in the movie is a "magic trick" by creative editing; the Charger has regenerating hubcaps as it loses 5 of them during the chase but they always reappear in the next scene. <<<
You must have missed the scene where they pulled in for a pit stop. :-)
Tom
LOL...there ya go. Good thing they don't have hubcaps in NASCAR....or on buses for that matter. :)
-F.
Rode the replacement shuttle bus for the never-ending weekend track work on the Jamaica Bay trestle. There seemed to be Orions from Stengel and RTS from ENY, JAM and QV. Many of the RTS were extremely old, numbered from 3900 through 4400, and are probably usually kept in the depot on weekends. For the past couple of years, everything I've witnessed running on QV routes on weekends is 4900s, 8300s and 9300s- nothing older.
Some ridiculous morbid urge compelled me to head out to Belle Harbor to see how things looked. My circituous route included the B9 (whose New Flyer absolutely SPED down Avenue L from Ocean to Flatbush) and Q35 into the peninsula.
The 35 took almost an hour to come, even though during that time three went by the other way never to return. Where they went after discharging at the Junction remains a mystery. Beefed-up weekend B41 service to Kings Plaza has not discouraged the illegal van services; plenty were still trying to pick me up. My stock rebuff to them is "Do you take unlimited Metrocards?", which usually results in them angrily speeding off.
Predictably the 35 was packed, but a lot of people got off along Flatbush BEFORE the mall. I don't know why they didn't take one of the seventeen B41s that passed by while I was waiting for this bus. Lots more people got off at the Toys-R-Us a little past the mall. We were still SRO over the bridge. The Riis parking lot was full of flatbed trailers, obviously carrying equipment for the service the next day. A lot of angry people were waiting by the Neponsit facility. Apparently a 22 hadn't come along in a long time either.
The bus headed straight down Rockaway Beach Boulevard rather than turn left on 147th to Newport, which is perfectly understandable. Got off at 134th and walked the rest of the way to 116th. Some streets were still blocked off, there was a faint fuel smell between 130th and 131st, and people were out walking around in a generally cheery mood. Townspeople and the many police officers assigned to the area were casually chatting. I was able to see the gas station on 129th where a conflagaration was narrowly avoided; very creepy.
I befriended a bunch of Red Cross workers on the shuttle out of 116th who were vanned down through Brooklyn that morning and didn't know about the shuttle bus. Out-of-towners, they didn't understand the regional semantics, so I tried to explain that the Rockaways are part of Queens County which in turn is part of New York City. It wasn't easy. They were amazed the peaceful, suburban, seaside atmosphere that is Belle Harbor is, yes, actually in the city. This made for a great discussion on QV 3986, which was burdened by the residue of trains discharging at Beach 98th from BOTH directions at once.
A few of the workers had been in the city two months ago, but had only seen the stricken downtown area. Hence, the bus ride up Cross Bay through the nature preserves- and beautiful sunset- was quite striking to them.
They did advise me that mourners were being offered chartered bus service from both PA terminals, downtown Brooklyn, Penn Station and other central locations. This should prevent a lot of already upset people from having to endure the interrupted subway trip and being kicked off trains out onto Cross Bay Boulevard.
All in all, a rather inspiring day.
"Predictably the 35 was packed, but a lot of people got off along Flatbush BEFORE the mall. I don't know why they didn't take one of the seventeen B41s that passed by while I was waiting for this bus. "
This also happens in Little Neck. The Q12 runs very frequently to Flushing but there's loads of people waiting at the City Line bus stop for N20/21 to Flushing. The LI Buses are already packed at this point, why can't these people take the Q12?
Do you know the turnaround routing at Rockaway Blvd OR Howard Beach ,,I believe they go all the way to Liberty and Rockaway Blvd
Thanks
Steve
The bus from Rockaway Park I was on passed Liberty, made a left on Rockaway, another left on 93rd Street and discharged on the near side of Liberty by the staircase to the subway. The northbound Green buses that serve that station (Q7,11,21,41) stop on the southeast corner of Liberty and Cross Bay, which requires everyone to cross that very wide boulevard.
The TA shuttles were probably routed the way they were to prevent congestion at the aforementioned Green Bus stop, and to keep loads of people unfamiliar with the area from having to cross.
Don't know the details of the turnaround at Howard Beach/JFK, but the narrow one-way streets in the vicinity must make manuevers difficult.
Thank you
steve
I think I have a simple answer to why a bunch of folks were taking the 35. During off peak hours, the cash fare ont he private DOT lines is only a dollar ($1.00), so I'm sure the fifty cent difference could explain it.
That would do it, except I would think most people getting the Q35 at the Junction are transferring from the subway or other buses, and hence would have paid their initial fare by Metrocard getting on the first mode of transportation.
The dollar off-peak fare offered by the privates is useful if you're only riding one bus and nothing else.
no, it's also useful because it's transfer-ready. i mean, 1.00 can also get you a transfer to the other brooklyn buses
Steve, when will these express bus service changes take place? Like the X37, X38, X39, X42, etc.?
Ray
All 3 notes have the startup dates attached
While unpacking here in Florida I found a letter thta I sent to Operations Planning in 1991 with the following changes. I would like to share these proposals and the TA comments with you. Again these changes were proposed in 1991.
1-Discontinue Route B-78 and replace with an extended B-5 and a rerouted B-7 to create a one seat ride on Kings Highway.
The B-78 was to be discontinued and replaced by extending the B-5 from Ryder Street to Sutter Ave Station via Kings Highway,Rockaway Parkway and the current B-78 route. The B-7 was to operate via its current route from Broadway to Remsen Ave/Kings Highway and then via the current B-78 route to Kings Plaza.
TA RESPONSE-It liked the idea and actually had a public hearing on it with all proposed changes that year. However it was never implemented. At the time the TA was considering a B5/B7 consolidation.
WHAT HAPPENED-Sept 1995 the TA combined the B-5 and B-50 to create the B-82.
2-Discontinue the B-62 and revise Routes B-10 and B-40 and extend the B-65 to create a one seat ride along Ralph Ave and a new north south route and to end duplicate service on Flushing Ave.
The B-40 was to operate from Williamsburg Bridge Plaza to Elderts Lane/Linden Blvd via the current B-40 and B-10 routes. The B-65 was to replace the B-40 from Ralph Ave/St Johns Place to Penn/Livberty Ave. The B-10 was to operate from Brookdale Medical Center to Commercial/Box Streets via the B-10 and B-62 routes
TA RESPONSE-It said that the proposed B-40 was too long and that the TA was considering extending the B-10 to JFK Airport. The TA also said at that time most B-40 passengers did not want any changes made in the B-40 route. In regards to the B-62 change the TA was then considering the consolidation of the B-47 and B-62 bus routes.
WHAT HAPPENED-The B-10 was extended to JFK two years later in 1993 and redesignated B-15 and the B-47/B-62 consolidation was implemented in Sept. 1995.
3-Reroute and extend the B-16 and reroute the B-47. Create a new cross Brooklyn service . The B-16 will have been rerouted via Ft Hamilton Pkway between Dahill Rd and 56th/57th Streets and be extended to Eastern Pkway/Kingston Ave or Utica Ave/Empire Blvd.via Ocean Ave/Empire Blvd,Kingston Ave. The B-47 would have been rerouted to Kings County Hospital/Downstate Medical Center via the B-12 route with some changes. A new route will have been created from VA Hospital to Church/McDonald Aves via the 13th and 14th Ave corridors.
TA RESPONSE-The TA did not like this idea at all. In regards to the B-47 see above.
WHAT HAPPENED-The B-16 was extended from Caton Ave to Flatbush Ave via Ocean Ave and the B-47 and B-62 were combined.
Your comments on these changes will be appreciated.
Thank You
I feel the same way about the B16. It would be nice if it was extended across Empire Blvd to Troy Ave and follow the B17 to Utica Ave IRT station. This way it would connect both of the Jewish neighborhoods of Crown Heights and Boro Park. But the Crown Heights Community Bus takes care of that.
See my Brooklyn Bus Changes about the B40/B78 issue.
I aready saw a photo of a D40LF from SEPTA but not showing the Ornage LED Sign. Do anybody have one with the Ornage LED sign that they could post here?
i have one no scanner.
I will hopefully have some New Flyer pictures posted at my web site within the next week or two.
I took three clear sharp photos of the New Flyer
on the 5456,5445,G ,and 5403 on 105 yes the 105.
once i get a scanner i post them.i slso have some picture of 5406 when it was first put is service on test on the 52.
they is a web site with photo of the on it @
This one was on Friday, November 9 in two distinct segments in Queens and Brooklyn.
-Drove in predawn darkness to outer terminus of Q75 in secluded section of Bayside surrounded by private houses and woodland. Puzzled driver of RTS 4900-series waited for me to park car and run across 230th Street to board. Interesting winding route through residential streets, then fast run down 73rd Avenue (most people waiting for Q88 and QM1A instead), especially through parkland from 210th to Francis Lewis. First time at 165th terminal since 1988 diversion of Q70s and Green Buses.
-Walked to Jamaica Avenue for Q56 8900-series RTS. Seats were smoothest and most slippery I can recall, as if they were just compounded and simonized; seats on contemporary (1995/6) Orions quite faded and scratched in comparison. Off at Lefferts.
-Q55 8100-series RTS to Myrtle & 81st. Hoped-for fast run through park from Park Lane South to Woodhaven broken up by unneccesary red light at Freedom Lane.
-Q29 2800-series RTS with red seats huge cylindrical assembly on top- is that a radio transmitter or natural gas tank? Tight left turn from 81st Street onto 78th Avenue requires driving partially on sidewalk. Off at Woodhaven & Dry Harbor.
-Spotted Rego Park-bound Q38 (same specs as Q29) coming through LIRR trestle over Woodhaven. Ran uphill one long block on Eliot to next stop at 85th Street and grabbed it thanks to passenger lingering at fare box with too many expired Metrocards. Caught breath around Mount Olivet Cemetery, which took a long time to get through thanks to horrible traffic into Fresh Pond. Large exchange of passengers at 'M' train terminal. Many twists and turns through extremely narrow residential streets, most two-way. Huge crowd boarding at Woodhaven and 63rd Drive, where shorter trip to subway via Q11 is available on same corner. Had to fight way off at Austin Street and Embassy Diner.
-Several subways to Kings Highway/East 16th. B31 9400-series RTS to end of line in very secluded, windy neighborhood incongruously bordered by packed Belt Parkway. Just enough passengers for one to get off at every stop, eliminating chance of speedy run along Gerritsen Avenue. Many out-of-service Orion Command express buses resting at dead end.
-B31 8400-series RTS to U & Gerritsen.
-B3 9200-series RTS with express seats to end of line in similarly secluded, but rather ritzy-looking Bergen Beach. I had never been east of Kings Plaza in recent memory. Express coach seating oddly apropos in neighborhood similar to many Staten Island neighborhoods (or south shore of eastern Nassau County for that matter) heavily reliant on such service.
-Another B3 of same type waiting to leave in front of first one; took to Flatbush. People getting on at interim stops looked very confused when they saw seating. Saw numerous other 9200s passing by in opposite direction, unusual on a route that seemed solidly 1986-7 RTS when I rode it on a Sunday last month.
-B46 limited 8100-series RTS that went out of service with no apparent problems (maintained speed on straightaway Utica) at Flatlands. Nice view of Flatbush depot along the way.
-Attempted to get Canarsie-bound B82, but after long wait two arrived packed to the gills with schoolkids. Crossed Flatlands for 9100-series RTS to Flatbush & Highway.
-B41 limited 8000-series RTS to Junction.
-'2' to Hoyt Street; walked to 370 Jay to check for new bus maps. Bronx was September 1999 model. 'A' to Rockaway Boulevard.
-After fifteen-minute wait, Q11 roll-sign RTS with olive green seats to Woodhaven & Myrtle. Ten-minute dwell time at 101st Avenue for boarding of kids from adjacent J.H.S. 210 rabid at arrival of long weekend. Most of whom got off two stops later at Atlantic; the rest at Jamaica. Bell does NOT cancel out with "Stop Requested" light.
-Another long wait for Richmond Hill-bound Q55 with 'tweens chucking acorns at passing vehicles. Let them get on 8100-series RTS because 9500-series hard-seated RTS was right behind. Stuck behind DOT steam shovel through park. Missed THREE Jamaica-bound Q56s pulling out simultaneously waiting to cross Avenue at 117th Street.
-Q10 Orion with padded seats to Kew Gardens. No sign of vandalism. Collected route timetables for Q8, 37, 40 and 41 from rack. Spotted very crowded outbound 10 on Lefferts between Austin and KG Road. Don't all outbound 10s coming out of the terminal turn left on 80th Road, then left on Austin on their way to Lefferts?
-Q46 3900-series RTS with unusually smooth ride to Turnpike & 188th. Cars parked in bus stop forced bus to pull up past it, causing me to narrowly miss outbound Q75 soft-seated Orion. Was spared half-hour wait because this bus arrived exactly midway between its scheduled arrival times according to March 2000 guide-a-ride.
-Q75 4900-series RTS arrived fifteen minutes later. Was last passenger left after Bell Boulevard. Driver floored it on 69th Avenue uphill with very loud resultant engine noise.
-Came to later realization that there is a distinct lack of leg room in forward-facing seats on 1999 Orions when you're 6'1". Knee pain subsided next day.
The other epiphany I may have experienced from all this bus riding is that the Kings' Plush on the 1998 93/9400-series Orions is much thicker and softer than on the '99 4900-5200s, which feel like smoothed out steel wool. The fabric on the seats of the newer Artics and Gleason New Flyers are, however, similar to the '98s.
"Q29 2800-series RTS with red seats huge cylindrical assembly on top- is that a radio transmitter or natural gas tank? Tight left turn from 81st Street onto 78th Avenue requires driving partially on sidewalk. Off at Woodhaven & Dry Harbor. "
I think that was one of the Triboro CNG RTS's. They do use the dreaded Cummins L10G engine, so how bad was it?
Okay, gang....it's house cleaning time for me!! I'm gonna make an offer that you probably will all fight over.....let's keep it civil in here. Reply ONLY by e-mail if you are interested, let's keep BusTalk for discussions and NOT private corrspondence.
I have a COMPLETE set of the old BUS WORLD magazines...including the Eagle Special. Most are in almost brand new shape, a couple have slightly wrinkled corners on the cover pages. They are in plastic magazine holders. And I rarely, if ever, even look into them any more. They are simjply taking up a lot of space around here.
I'm going to give them away, but only with ONE stipulation....they are going tobe given away as ONLY a complete set....but YOU (whoever wants them) must pay postage. I'd estimate about $20.00 for that, shipping them priority mail (this time of year, you DON'T want to ship them at the el cheap-o book rate....)
As I said, do NOT clutter up BusTalk with replies. If you reply in the open forum, you get nixed from the list of prospective owners of the complete set!! (SERIOUSLY!!)
Okay, gang....it's house cleaning time for me!! I'm gonna make an offer that you probably will all fight over.....let's keep it civil in here. Reply ONLY by e-mail if you are interested, let's keep BusTalk for discussions and NOT private corrspondence.
I have a BUNCH of the old MOTOR COACH AGE magazines....March 1984 through January 2000. Most are in almost brand new shape, a couple have slightly wrinkled corners on the cover pages. They are in plastic magazine holders. And I rarely, if ever, even look into them any more. They are simjply taking up a lot of space around here.
I'm going to give them away, but only with ONE stipulation....they are going tobe given away as ONLY a complete set....but YOU (whoever wants them) must pay postage. I'd estimate about $20.00 for that, shipping them priority mail (this time of year, you DON'T want to ship them at the el cheap-o book rate....)
As I said, do NOT clutter up BusTalk with replies. If you reply in the open forum, you get nixed from the list of prospective owners of the complete set!! (SERIOUSLY!!)
Okay, gang....it's house cleaning time for me!! I'm gonna make an offer that you probably will all fight over.....let's keep it civil in here. Reply ONLY by e-mail if you are interested, let's keep BusTalk for discussions and NOT private corrspondence.
I have a BUNCH of the old MOTOR COACH TODAY magazines....January 1994 through July 1999. Most are in almost brand new shape, a couple have slightly wrinkled corners on the cover pages. They are in plastic magazine holders. And I rarely, if ever, even look into them any more. They are simjply taking up a lot of space around here.
I'm going to give them away, but only with ONE stipulation....they are going tobe given away as ONLY a complete set....but YOU (whoever wants them) must pay postage. I'd estimate about $7.50 for that, shipping them priority mail (this time of year, you DON'T want to ship them at the el cheap-o book rate....)
As I said, do NOT clutter up BusTalk with replies. If you reply in the open forum, you get nixed from the list of prospective owners of the complete set!! (SERIOUSLY!!)
1. What buses would I get on these routes: 21,45Q,63,and 65.?
2. What Buses I would see in Scarsdale?
3. Where I would see the most Orion5's?
THANKS! :)
1. What buses would I get on these routes: 21,45Q,63,and 65.?
For the 21, most likely an artic, since the 21 is the express version of the 20, which usually sees artics. For the other three routes, you most likely would see Flxibles.
2. What Buses I would see in Scarsdale?
The routes which serve Scarsdale would most likely use Flxibles, since none of these routes are w/c accessible.
3. Where I would see the most Orion5's?
It's a toss up between White Plains and Yonkers. Most of the wheelchair routes hub at White Plains (most notably, the 6, 13, and 14), while a few serve Yonkers (the ones that come to mind are the 6, 25, 26, 30, and 55). If you wanted to kill some time, you could go to Peekskill, where the 14, 16, 18, and 19 are all accessible routes, hence, the Orions will show up there.
If you have any route questions,,,destination sign issues,,check
http://community-1.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT
Enjoy The Photo! (Damn That $#!T is bright)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
So thats the new NYBS MCI? NICE, but whats with the bright sign?
Ooh...VERY nice Cruiser! Yeah, our new Gilligs are like that....bright orange destination signs. Gotta love em though...they really give off that big city feel!
-F.
Do you have the photos of the NEW Gilligs online?
Hopefully Trevor will have them up soon; I have sent them to TransiTalk and they will show up there at the site's reopening.
-Fred
Yes, they be bright.
The first trip I drive, I'm on the street at 4:31 a.m. Halfway up the route, about a mile down the street, one of our brand-new NABI's was approaching, and the sign was cycling throughr eadings.
My first thought was...."Aw, shit, road construction, gotta detour!"
Those new signs are AMAZINGLY BRIGHT. Haven't driven one yet, but all my fellow drivers say you could drive without the headlights on and the headsign does a better job!!
No more passengers hiding in the shadows with those signs.
LOL....road construction! I agree; they are pretty bright. Are those Luminator signs?
-F.
I belive they are made by Balios.
NOPE!
These are Luminator-Horizon LED Signs!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
That's what I thought; ours are the same way and are Lumiators as well.
-F.
"Star Light, Star Bright, 1st Orange Sign I See Tonight"
............I wish I may, I wish I might, put on my sunglasses to read that sign tonight !
Bill "Newkirk"
LOL! Good One!
Trevor Logan
LOL!!!
-F.
NEWS FLASH...NEWS FLASH......
Found out today that NovaBUS is to sell off the Roswell, NM plant. This means there is a uncertain future for the RTS Bus. I currently have no word on who the new buyer is......This is new info and I don't have much of it, I will feed you more as time progress.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Uh oh. What's that gonna mean for all the aliens now working for Nova?
PINK SLIPS!!!!!!!!!
So don't be too shocked if you see any Grays or Reptilians showing up in the unemployment lines!
Huh? Grays? Reptilians? I don't understand....
-F.
Different types of extraterrestrials.
"Grays" are reported as being very slender, with a pale complexion, and huge black slanted eyes (like on the cover of "Communion")
"Reptilians" supposedly look like, well, reptiles. Only they are human-sized.
There are other types of ET's reported - such as the Aryan or Nordic - very tall, flowing blond hair and blue eyes,
and another type, like "messengers" or something, that are short, stubby, and usually covered in a black cape.
No, I have not personally met any of these guys, but I have read about them and their peculiar habits ...
Uh-oh....let's hope the RTS is not on the way out. It still looks newer than aything else built right now and probably still would in the year 2050. Alright, MCI, that's it....bring back the Metro before I give up all hope in sleek new bus styling.
-F.
Take Notice:
1) The Model TC-40102 Otherwise known as the Classic...GMC/GMDD, MCI, NovaBUS.......DEAD!
2) Rohr Flxible, Grumman Flxible, GAC-Flxible Corp....DEAD!
Only makes sense that 3 would be
THE RTS.......GMC, TMC, NovaBUS.......DEAD!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
What the heck is Volvo, who owns NovaBus, and who is partially owned by Ford, up to? But then again, Ford has been having BIG financial problems way before 9/11. Thye may be in a rush now to recoup losses, and that may mean that Volvo has to recoup whatever cuts it gets in order to support its Euro ops, and that may mean Nova (and the RTS) may get the ax.
If you don't believe me, then take a look at the WSJ article dated Tuesday 10/12 (date may be wrong; I'll provide specs upon request)
Ford has absolutely nothing to do with this. They only own the Volvo car division. Volvo of Sweden itself is still its own company - they simply concentrate on trucks and buses now. In addition, Volvo only owns 51% of Prevost/NovaBUS.
Nova's claim is that the US economy is down, combined with the move towards low-floor buses. The article from Metro Magazine's website is below:
November 20, 2001
NovaBus to sell Roswell manufacturing plant
NovaBus Inc. is putting its Roswell, N.M., bus manufacturing plant up for sale due to adverse market conditions.
The company employs about 400 people in Roswell.
While the company looks for a buyer, it will slowly reduce production and start to let workers go, said President Robert Shaughnessy.
Company officials said orders for the RTS bus, which is built in Roswell, have not materialized during the past 12 to 18 months. They said market share for the high-floor buses has dropped because of requirements for wheelchair lifts.
Wow....ZERO RTS orders in the past 12-18 months? That's TERRIBLE! Maybe all of the older RTSes that are still running are what are killing their sales.
Also, if Volvo owns more than 50%, doesn't that mean they own NOVA? Daimler-Benz bought up 51% of Chrysler Corp. in 1998, which turned them into DaimlerChrysler. And every news article since then has claimed that Daimler owns Chrysler, much to my dismay.
-F.
That doesnt exactly means zero RTS's built. There have been real small orders, for example Academy purchased a couple for the Rutgers University Contract.
Oh, I see; gotcha. I wonder how many were built in 2000 and 2001?
-F.
That's terrible. If we lose the RTS, than you know that our nation's economy has gone down the toilet for sure. What a damned shame.
-F.
There are only so many TAs in this nation, and many of them only need so many buses. But then again, what's with this low-floor bus craze?! I mean, it's chic alright, and good for the suburban/quiet retirement town routes, but IMO, LF buses have no business being on the streets of NY. Or many other big cities for that matter.
This is true; besides, didn't ADA mandate lifts on all buses in 1990, when all new buses were predominantly high floors? This is a simple fix and can even be retrofitted to older HF coaches.
We have a pair of Thomas SLFs, our first low floors here ever; while they are neat-looking buses, they are COMPLETELY impractical. They have half the seating space of their high-floor Gillig counterparts and are no more than a few inches off the ground, making them useless for regular route service which would require them to go near curbs and onto ramps and rises.
We already buckled the front fender of the demo that Thomas sent us in early 2000; you'd think that would have been a hint, yet the order proceeded anyway. Let's hope the standard-floor bus is not killed off completely as it is the most practical design around.
-F.
Actually, ADA doesn't mandate lifts, ramps, or low floor buses. It'sd a civil law, not a code of standards - ADA only requires that public transportation is accessible to the handicapped. The operators and manufacturers are free to decide what access works the best.
I see; but that is the only practical way to make a high floor bus accessible....with a lift. What other way could there possibly be?
-F.
>>> We have a pair of Thomas SLFs, our first low floors here ever; while they are neat-looking buses, they are COMPLETELY impractical. They have half the seating space of their high-floor Gillig counterparts and are no more than a few inches off the ground, making them useless for regular route service which would require them to go near curbs and onto ramps and rises. <<<
Comparing the Thomas LFs to the Gillig HFs is a bit unfair. The Thomas has extremely low clearance which might limit where it can go, but the Gillig Advantage LF has plenty of road clearance for most city routes. The largest Thomas is only 35 ft., and of course the shorter buses which lose the seating over the front wheel wells have less seating than comparable high floor buses, but if buses are running at less than full capacity, this is not a problem. Here in L.A. where I regularly see NABI, Gillig, Orion VI and New Flyer LFs, there is no problem maneuvering them around the streets.
Tom
I only compared the two as those are all we have here. SLFs are used for light-duty shuttle, while the Gilligs take the roads for heavy-duty regular use. We had a Gillig Advantage demo here; it's a neat bus and more versatile for height but is only available as a 102" so Roanoke could not get them...everything here is 96" only.
-F.
I think the Gillig Phantom would benefot from the sleek headlight design of the Advantage; the current front end is too stodgy and plain. The wraparound look would bring it nicely up to date!
-F.
>>> I think the Gillig Phantom would benefot from the sleek headlight design of the Advantage <<<
I find it frightening that something like the cosmetic headlight design could help sell a transit bus. I would hope the purchasing agents would be paying much more attention to safety, performance, economy, rider satisfaction, and ease of operation and maintenance than superficial looks.
Tom
I find it frightening that something like the cosmetic headlight design could help sell a transit bus. I would hope the purchasing agents would be paying much more attention to safety, performance, economy, rider satisfaction, and ease of operation and maintenance than superficial looks.
Tom:
While safety, performance et al are all crucial facts to consider when choosing a bus, looks are actually very important as well. Remember, in many places, transit systems have very low marketability and are used primarily by the 'underclass.' If these systems want to have any appeal to converting motorists to transit, the aesthetics of the bus is a great place to start. Square, plain boxes-on-wheels with bland paint schemes just do not turn the heads of motorists. Transit buses should be designed to make auto users drool in awe, not to make them shudder and say 'get that damn bus out of my way.'
To knock my least favorite bus, buses like the Gillig Advantage do not turn any heads. In fact, I think that they look scared of other traffic, and are designed to fade into the scenery, not to make transit stand out.
Also, I could not disagree more with Flxible about changing the Phantom design. The Phantom's front end is not beautiful, but the solution is not to make it look more like its hideous low floor cousin, the Advantage.
The transit bus industry needs to come up with a bus that is easy to maintain, comfortable to drive, accommodating to ride, long-lasting, and attractive to look at! In no other industry would products as subpar as current transit buses be accpeted. Unbelievable...
Aesthetically pleasing buses are part of strategic thinking to polish the image of transit. Transit needs to be a competitive, attractive option for everyone, not a second-rate, gruff last resort for only those who desperately need it. People with a choice will be much more receptive to transit when the vehicles are somewhat attractive, and asking a Gillig to live up to that is really a stretch.
I commend any transit system that takes looks into account when selecting a bus. There should be as much attention paid to the design of buses as any other vehicle. It's getting so bad that there is a new model of Thomas school bus that is leaps and bounds more attractive than some current transit bus offerings.
>>> looks are actually very important as well ... If these systems want to have any appeal to converting motorists to transit, the aesthetics of the bus is a great place to start <<<
I just cannot go along with that. There is no exterior styling that would convert a single driver to a regular bus rider. Until September, I was an automobile driver, but since then I have been riding the buses, not through choice. As a driver there was absolutely no transit bus that looked attractive enough for me to want to ride them regularly. They were nothing more than obstructions in the road to me, and I could not tell one model from another. About the only bus that looked good enough for me to want to take a (single) ride on was the Neoplan Skyliner.
Now that I am riding buses, I am aware of the different manufacturers and models, but I still could care less what the outside of the bus looks like. To me, there is nothing wrong with a transit bus looking like a box on wheels. I am quite interested in smoothness of the ride, and comfort of the seats inside the buses, the heating and air conditioning, the amount of leg room, the interior sound level, the ease of entry and exit, and whether the operator is able to tell when a stop has been requested. I naturally also have an interest in the bus being easy for the driver to control, and able to maneuver and stop safely. These are the features that will attract riders, not exterior styling.
BTW, I do understand why bus fans appreciate an interesting styling. My favorite in New York was the Twin Coach from the late ‘40s and early ‘50s. It is just that it will not be effective in attracting riders from alternate means of transportation.
Tom
I just cannot go along with that. There is no exterior styling that would convert a single driver to a regular bus rider.
I would agree; the bus in and of itself could not do it alone. However, an improved, aesthetically pleasing bus design in combination with other smart marketing techniques could make riding transit a lot more attractive.
Transit systems need to market themselves like retail products (some transit systems already do so) because they really do have something to offer to everyone. Anyone who knows anything about consumer appeal will tell you that a product, whether that product be a bus route or a hair brush, must be physically appealing in some way shape or form.
This is true; very true. Shoot, that's how I pick a new toothbrush...LOL! Sadly enough, I am more likely to find a sleek design in a toothbrush than I am with a new transit bus. Very sad.
-F.
I like the old Twin Coaches too; they were really different from anything else made at the time. Gotta love that windshield!
-F.
I totally agree with you. I truly believe that the two important things that may convert a driver to a transit patron are service and comfort. If you have to walk a long distance to go to a bus stop and you have to transfer often to get from point A to B, then you probably would just drive, despite how sleek or amazingly cool a bus may look. Also, comfort is important too, because if you aren't comfortable, then you won't ride it. Even I wouldn't willingly ride an uncomfortable bus, and I bet you guys would feel the same way. Anyway, attractiveness is important, because I know that most people wouldn't want to ride a bus that looks as if you touch it, it will collapse. As long as a bus looks decent, people will ride it, whether it's as boxy as a NABI or as sleek as an RTS is suppose to be.
I totally agree with you guys. Comfort and convenience is more important. We have flashy paint jobs and logos on our buses and the only people we attract are the needy and those without choice.
We went to the grid system in '86 and broke established route patterns. We have yet recovered from the loss of ridership.
On a positive note, we implemented limited stop service on certain heavy routes and they have been very popular. Which goes to show you, people want convenience andf these limiteds can get you there fast.
BP
This is true; besides, didn't ADA mandate lifts on all buses in 1990, when all new buses were predominantly high floors? This is a simple fix and can even be retrofitted to older HF coaches.
We have a pair of Thomas SLFs, our first low floors here ever; while they are neat-looking buses, they are COMPLETELY impractical. They have half the seating space of their high-floor Gillig counterparts and are no more than a few inches off the ground, making them useless for regular route service which would require them to go near curbs and onto ramps and rises.
We already buckled the front fender of the demo that Thomas sent us in early 2000; you'd think that would have been a hint, yet the order proceeded anyway. Let's hope the standard-floor bus is not killed off completely as it is the most practical design around.
-F.
Is Gillig considered dead or brain dead ?
I guess we'll have to lay tracks in the streets, string up wire and start building streetcars again !
Bill "Newkirk"
Last night when coming home for Thanksgiving, exited VZ Bridge at South Beach Loop and when heading towards South Beach saw 2139 attached to a wrecker.
There was no other vehicle around so I assume it was towed and was just waiting under the SI Expressway overpass with the wrecker.
2139 was damaged badly on the front right side of the bus. The front metal panel was banged in, the front right windshield was smashed, I couldn't see the doors, but my guess they are messed up too.
Looks like 2139 will be out for a while.
What ever happened to the 2 MCIs that head on collision on the Gowanus Last year? Are they repaired or still being fixed?
Looks like anohter MCI bites the dust. They've been a jinx ever since they've arrived. And Queens wants these too?! No way-I'd rather stick to the Nova and Orion Suburbans.
#9278 x63
#626 x68
>>> No way-I'd rather stick to the Nova and Orion Suburbans. <<<
Agreed, while the MCI crusers are nice busses they are way too much bus for inner city routes. They are NOT designed for it and are a huge waste of money. Same goes for NJTs northern NJ local routes. The MCI cruisers have no business being used in these types of applications. I suspect that much "pocket lining" is going on behind the scenes. Just my opinion.
Peace,
ANDEE
The TA likes them because of higher seating capacity.
Depending on whichever model being looked at (DLW3SS, D4000, D4500), at the most the MCI Cruisers can take about 5-6 extra passengers over the Nova T(S)80-206 (#9250-9349 for those that don't know what I'm talking about) and the Orion V Suburban. Now, the TA and NJT could have avoided the expense and overkill of ordering and storing the MCIs by simply asking for a couple dozen more buses, and using those to decrease the headways that I constantly hear people complaining about. But NOOOOOO! They had to get fancy.
d4500 cruisers seat 57 passengers whereas nova suburbans and orion suburbans only seat 39-42, at least a 15 passenger difference.
Thanks for clearing that up.
**the ta & njt could have avoided expense and overkill of ordering and storing the MCI's by simply asking for a couple dozen more buses**
Guess what. A couple dozen more buses means a couple dozen more operators, a couple dozen more pay checks, a couple dozen more vehicles needing to be fueled & serviced, a couple dozen more vehicles emitting pollution and a couple of dozen less parking spaces to house them.
Bottom line: T/A & NJT are actually saving money by ordering buses that really are not designed for this kind of service.
BIG AL
"Guess what. A couple dozen more buses means a couple dozen more operators, a couple dozen more pay checks, a couple dozen more vehicles needing to be fueled & serviced, a couple dozen more vehicles emitting pollution and a couple of dozen less parking spaces to house them.
Bottom line: T/A & NJT are actually saving money by ordering buses that really are not designed for this kind of service."
What a paradox!
I don't understand what your paradox statement implies. I am merely stating all transit systems do what they can to save money. Buying more costly MCI's saves them money in the long haul, since they seat more people, thus, less buses are needed. The fact that these buses are really not designed for city local uses is not at the top of transit agencies priorities. In todays world, the almighty dollar is.
BIG AL
I also agree that the MCI's (and posted recently) in express service are a bit of overkill. I'm not saying that TA shouldn't use them at all, but to go towards all MCI express bus fleet is so unnecessary. I think they're good for many routes, especially those going to Staten Island. However, I don't think a 45 foot long intercity bus is needed for all x-bus runs.
It's also a waste to be converting relatively new express buses into locals. My thinking is... If the TA insists on having it's express fleet be totally MCI's... Why not just let those remaining RTS and Orions continue as they are and get replaced with MCI or whatever bus they're using at that point.
It's so frustrating how much nonsense and waste comes out of Jay Street.
Wayne
Let's review:
FACT: Because riding is continuing to increase, especially on local routes, there is a need for additional buses.
FACT: NYCT's local bus fleet is aging.
FACT: Because of production problems and other reasons, NYCT will not be getting any local buses in 2002, despite having several hundred on order.
FACT: 45-foot express buses using NYCT's seating configuration seat 57 and 40-foot express buses using NYCT's seating configuration seat 39-42.
FACT: The MCI bus has proven to be a reliable piece of equipment under NYCT's duty cycle.
FACT: The MCI bus can be ordered very quickly under a change order to an existing contract and can be delivered very soon after the contract is signed.
FACT: NYCT's 40-foot express buses can be used in local service. They have two doors, facilitating simultaneous entry and exit. Yes, the seats are not suitable for passenger flow on "grid" routes (those with lots of boarding and alighting, as opposed to "feeder" routes where everybody's going to one place), but the buses are usable and the seats can be changed out if desired, albeit at a cost that at this time is prohibitive.
FACT: Express service under NYCT's labor agreements is very expensive to operate, and any efficiencies (such as carrying more people per bus) can only help the operating budget.
FACT: Bus purchases are funded under NYCT's capital budget.
I fail to see where the "nonsense and waste" are.
David
caught sight of MCI #1803 for NYBS today-nice paint job. and was talknig to a dispatcher for command bus and he says that command is not getting the MCI buses. They could uses it, i mean, how long can they run the MCI buses they have without wheelchair accesiblity?
BM3-#4953-Orion V-CNG
both are long since back in service. as a former operator for 22 years i must disagree with this badmouthing of mci buses. au contraire they are the best bus nyct ever bought. the only bus lost 1998 was totalled in the 9/11 disaster. nyct mechanics can fix all the rest.
is now open for submissions (till 12/15/2001)
click here
An Internet buddy of mine who lives just outside of Rotterdam Holland and drives for their bus system sent me an email today advising me that Den Oudsten Bussen, (www.denoudsten.nl) New Flyer Industries parent company, has filed for bankruptcy. Whether this will have an adverse effect on New Flyer itself remains to be seen. Ironically, just yesterday I spoke to an operator who had just been trained on one of 126th Street Depot's 4 New Flyer artics. He told me that the instructor said that New Flyer was going out of business and that Volvo would be taking over production of the bus. Has anyone else heard this?
Well, with Nova selling the RTS plant, it would not be a surprise. This is a perfect scenario for Volvo:
- sell off RTS (or let it die altogether)
- cease production of the LFS (a design of a Volvo competitor), effectively killing Nova
- buy New Flyer from VdO
This would then allow Volvo to change from the largest selling high-floor ADB to the #1 selling low floor without changing any infrastructure.
Damn....what a eerie thought, but it makes good business sense. If only they could combine the two and make a low floor RTS. THAT would be a nice-looking bus.
-F.
Good God! Another one bites the dust? Sheeze...at this rate Gillig may corner the market! That makes me wonder what Blacksburg Transit will do for their next bus order; they were to order 16 new Flxible Metros in 1996 but their order was scheduled for August, a few months after Flx went belly-up. As a result, BT had to look around for someone who would be able to produce such a small order...they checked with NABI and a few others. They finally accepted a bid from New Flyer, and it took two years to fulfill the order, hence the D35 and 40 LFs that would arrive in 1998.
Now their four RTSes are 12 years old and slated for replacement; they were planning on replacing them with more New Flyers but guess what may happen again. Meanwhile, their Flx Metros, soon to turn 15 and 16 years old, will be around for at least 2 to 3 more years. The reason? The Flxibles, although now technically orphaned, are easier to find parts for than the still-produced RTS. I'm still scratching my head on that one due to the logistics but do not mind as I like the Flxes the best.
-F.
As a follow up to Den Oudsten Bussen going bankrupt, a buddy of mine, who drives for the Vancouver B.C. transit system, sent me an article regarding New Flyer Industries laying off some of it's workers. You can read all about it at the following URL: http://canada.com/winnipeg/story.asp?id=(15593FC2-A000-4272-B2C2-DFEDB1B2E8BA)
This sucks. Why do MY favorite buses have uncertain futures? What about the Gillig, Orion, and Neoplan fans? Why can't they go belly up?! It's not like they're known for building quality buses or anything.
Yeah, really. However, Gilligs do well for smaller TAs; I could never see them in NYC though. I even do a double-take when I see them in DC!
-F.
Gillig does well for Seattle Metro who has nearly 500 of them.
neary 400 40ft diesels, 95 30ft diesels, 15 35ft diesels, 100 40ft trolley phantoms
I guess if New Flyer go's out. Then we would have Volvo LF's,Volvo LF Artic's,Volvo HF's,and Volvo HF Artic's.
will the new flyer bus will still be around when vovlo take over.
This could still mean the death of the RTS. In this economic reality, a buyer would have to be financially sound to be able to absorb the losses any transit bus will incur.
And who would buy the RTS? GM won't buy it back - they sold it because it didn't make money. MCI won't buy it back for the same reason, even though they might like that plant back. Ford is reorganizing. DaimlerChrysler already owns Orion. New Flyer could be on the block. No "investment group" will buy it because they can't turn a profit.
And what about NJT, the newest RTS convert? Neoplan finally made a sale to NJ Transit after 19 years of trying, so expect them to go HARD after the suburban order with the AN440.
2002 is going to be really interesting.
Tell me about it. I just hope all the TAs across America don't go to Blue Birds...that would really suck.
-F.
As far as I can remember, SEPTA and their predecessor was a one-company bus fleet owner. Before the NCL era, PTC was mostly a Mack purchaser. Then during the NCL era it was exclusively a GM owner. When SEPTA took over it bought GM's then got 830 Flxibles during the 70's. Then came the 298 RTS's in '80 , then starting in '83 and up to '90 it was exclusively NEOPLANS. From '95 to '97 the NABI's came in and now the New Flyers Low floors. With the exception of the specialty buses (artics, 30 footers, cutaways), SEPTA was a one or two manufacturer town.
What caused SEPTA to stop buying NEOPLANS? Will New Flyer's financial problems screw up the incomong 300 bus delivery? Will SEPTA buy more Neoplans? I would love to see more new Neoplans on the streets here.
Every time I see a Flxible Metro model in SEPTA colors, I wish it could have been a reality. You never know, it just may happen one day...if MCI brings back the tooling.
-F.
Hi,
I live in Starrett City - Brooklyn. What's the quickest way to get to LaGuardia (besides a car). Please reply here or email me at saturnjt20@aol.com
Thanks and Happy Holidays!
B83 to the Junction,J to Suthphin,Q44 Ltd to Main Street/Roosevelt X-fer to Q48 to Laguardia.Or if you want at Sutphin ;New York Airport Services bus to Laguardia
Hey thanks for your information. Happy Holidays!
This would be prime time for MCI to blow the dust of the Flxible METRO molds and bring that billy back!
MCI would have the transit/commuter market down on lock without a doubt if they did that. Now that basically we're looking at the end of NovaBUS and New Flyer what does that leave us: NABI, Neoplan, Orion and Gillig for a "solid" transit bus builder.
As we are seeing now, Orion ain't shit with that Orion 7. Gillig, That's name alone speaks for itself. NABI and Neoplan are decent transit buses, but the companies in the NY Metro act like they are scared (except for Bee Line and NJT with thier Neoplan orders).
MCI, if any of your employees are reading this post. BRING UP THE METRO IN THE NEXT BOARD MEETING. YOU COULD MAKE A KILLING IN THE INDUSTRY!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Exactly. I would LOVE to see that happen. Long live the Metro design!
-F.
That would be nice to see the Metros back on the buliding block. If MCI don't want to make Metros. MCI could save the RTS from going down into history.
I would assume that MCI would do either one or the other; since they are liquid and have a marked reputation for build quality, it is high time they enter the market with another proven transit design. They already have the Metro works in-house, which would look most congruent with their designs; however, they could easily purchase the Roswell works and have a "turn-key" operation with the RTS.
-F.
Just one problem with MCI either getting all the necessary rights to produce the Metro (they only bought the parts rights at the liquidation sale in 1996 and may need additional licensing to actually produce buses), or to buy the RTS.
They don't want to!
Are we forgetting MCI sold the RTS to Nova in the first place? They were losing their shirts with the RTS. Why would they want to get back into a money-draining product in a slow economy when they don't have to? DaumlerChrysler didn't want Orion, but it was part of the deal to make Western Star (Orion's owner) a division of Freightliner.
MCI will stay solely in the over-the-road coach market because that makes money. Not only are the coaches more expensive, but MCI also gets income from financing and leasing them, thanks to the interest. Yes, they love the half-billion dollar order from NJ Transit, but that's a guaranteed check from the government. On the other hand, private firms have to make payments on their new coaches. The resale is much better - second-hand MCIs usually go back in line service. And all that adds to MCI's bottom line.
Exactly. Which is WHY they should make transit buses. With a marked reputation on the highway, city buses would be all the more stronger. Also, after 12 or 15 years, a transit would actually have some RESALE value for once. "That's an MCI? Whoa....BIG money!!!".
The ball is in their court, though; let's just hope for the sake of TAs that they actually play it for once.
-F.
That reputation didn't help MCI between 1987 and 1995 when they were producing the RTS and the Classic. That's 9 years of learning your lesson.
The other issue is, there is already too much plant space devoted to transit buses. You've got Nova, Neoplan, New Flyer, Gillig, NABI, and Orion - all competing for a very small market, and all trying to justify empty plant space to their owners and stockholders. Add in MCI for TAs that want to buy commuter coaches for express service, which further takes away from the transit-based suburban. MAN, Volvo, Scania, and Flxible fell by the wayside.
Transit buses are too expensive to be marketed on reputation. They're more difficult to maintain, with much more to go wrong. They are expected to live way past their 12-year duty cycles. They take a lot more punishment than a Greyhound or charter coach that is running mostly on interstates. And with the government paying most of the bill, that munny can dry up at any time. It was the budget cuts in the mid 80s that forced GM to sell, because TAs didn't have the resources to place orders. It was the budget shutdowns in 1995 that closed Flxible, because they couldn't get paid for buses delivered.
No intelligent businessperson wants to get into an industry like this, especially now.
Why couldn't Flxible get paid for their buses?
-F.
Actually MCI owns more than the Parts Division. They own the molds to the Flxible METRO. For those that don't know the MCI F Series Coach is totally built off of the Flxible METRO A-Frame Chassis. Which means needing to rights the design. MCI CAN build the METRO if they want. But the D is doing well as a Transit Coach. HOWEVER when MCI kills the D Series after the NJT order......Then What?! The E, G, or J is not suited for the Commuter Coach or Cruiser Market. So either MCI comes up with something, bring back the METRO, or just loose out in another market. Which is New Flyer doesn't die, this could give the D45S a fighting chance!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
You have to look at it from more than just the perspective of driver and bus fan. It's no secret you liked them long before you got behind the wheel of one. If it were up to me, NJT wouild have purchased 700 GM-Canada S8H5304As back in 1982 instead of the MC9s. My dad loved driving Public Service fishbowls in the 60s.
But manufacturers look at $$ - the financial bottom line. This is all business to these people; they do not care what bus the fans miss. When Flx went under in 1996, Dina saw the chance to make money in the parts business. As I'm sure you know, parts and service is where the profit is - you see that anytime you take your car in for a tuneup. You could call MCI Parts today and order all the parts necessary to build a 40102 Metro from the ground up. It would also cost about 4 times as much as a bus off the assembly line - in current dollars, probably about a million bucks. So which is the smarter business decision:
- spend millions in overhead to recreate the assembky line, train workers on building the product, and HOPE somebody places a decent size orfder to recover those startup costs,
- or sell the more lucrative parts until 2011, the last year parts are guaranteed for new deliveries?
As far as MCI these days, they are not in good shape. Without NJT and MTA-NYCT buying Ds, they'd be close to dead as well. They've been bought and sold as much as the RTS in the same time frame. They can't find a decent CEO. They offer 5 different series of products, when at most they should have 3. They could have easily cleaned up the D the way Prevost did the LeMirage, and tossed the G in the trash, and I personally think the J is a joke - buy an E if you charter, buy a D if you're in line haul. The F is the only new model that wasn't addressed in the marketplace.
The bottom line is this - there are already too many bus manufacturers for the sales they're generating. Trying to enter this market with yet another nodelk would be the same as trying to open a deli on the same block as 6 other delis.
Well for me its not about loving the Flxible.
I'm looking at whats out there that is quality for a city bus. Though I'm not the biggest RTS fan, I will admit it was a quality bus. Now that's gone. All we have left if Orion, Neoplan, NABI, Gillig and maybe New Flyer. Of that group, I can definately say the NABI and Neoplan are our last quality builders unless New Flyer gets thier financial situation straight. The last quality Orion model is the 5 and maybe the 6, the 7 is pure shit.
That's why I'm saying what I'm saying about MCI bringing back the METRO, not because I'm a fan, its because MCI is a quality builder and the METRO was a good city bus. I also understand what you are saying about the "bottom line," I majored in Business Management so I know all about crunching numbers and what works.
I guess time will tell, the transit industry is looking at some very tough times ahead..........
Now on the note of MCI....I feel the J is a way more superior coach than the E. MCI was smart in creating the J, they took of all the unnecessary fat (Specs and options) off the E and made the J. The E is just too much. Also the J looks a lot more neater than the E. The G is another worthless coach, though I like the looks of it, all it is...is a upgraded MC-12 and MCI has admitted to that. The F is great for its purpose so I have no grips there. As big a D fan as I am, I will surely miss that bus when the line closes, BUT by the time the line closes the MTA and NJT will have all the buses they will need in the coach cruiser department. And I'm sure that NJT will run the Ds well into another 20 years and the same can probably be said for the MTA.
Again...Time will tell!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Of that group, I can definately say the NABI and Neoplan are our last quality builders...
And now that Neo has their foot in the NJT door, I expect Mrs. Chenoweth to be very aggressive in making sure her artics are everything they need to be for NJT, she'll try like hell to get that 70-bus option exercised - and will likely lowball the suburban bid to replace the 1989 Metros. Figure 155 artics and 400 suburbans, and you have a solid supplier.
As far as the MCI J, I guess my issue with that is, why make 2 models that will appear identical to the ultimate customer, the passenger. You and I know the J mechanicals are easier to work with, but Joe Average sees the same piece of equipment. In terms of Marketing, it would appear that MCI sells the E above the Prebost H-series, while th J is equally a level below the H. Which probably explains why the H3-45 has been second in sales only to the MCI D. It's a single model that can be used for line haul without a lot of bells and whistles, but can be upfitted to a true luxury charter coach if the operator wants. If MCI could somehow merge the E and J into a single model with sdimilar option packages, they could probably pass the Precosy H in sales.
By the way, Prevost/Nova put out a release that Volvo is no longer their majority owner. Henlys Group paid Volvo to get the extra 1%, and it's now a 50/50 ownership between those two. They also stated they are committed to the LFS. That bus looks like one of my drawings from first grade...
What would be used for the suburban buses? Would they try something like the Metroliner? It looks to tall for the PABT. I just read the post Trevor wrote above. Fixing up the Flixbles. This is getting more interesting everyday.
http://www.neoplanusa.com/products/transit.html
Well, if you go up a few threads, Trevor reported NJY is likely to reman all the 1989 Flxible Metro suburbans. I'm sure Neoplan would have offered the AN440 in single-door suburban configuration had NJT sent that bid out. Neo offered ther AN340 Metroliner against MCI for the various coach orders (1987, 1989, 2000). I believe they offered the Jetliner in 1982, since the Metroliner was not yet available.
I hope they really fix up those flixbles. They leak smell and are very loud. This is from a commuter that rides them. I would imagine they would be fine with a major refurbish.
I agree...the Metro and RTS are proven designs. Why wouldn't they work again?
-F.
Same reason the New Look won't work again. The technology has passed them by. The RTS was designed in the late 60s, and is still in production in 2001. The RTS and 870/Metro were state of the art for their day in the late 70s and 80s. But outside of NYC and New Jersey, whose operations favor high-floor buses, who else can you sell them to?
Even the other avail;able ADBs (Orion V, Neoplan AN4xx, New Flyer high-floor) were also designed to compete with the RTS and 870/Metro, not to be a better bus. There is still a market for high-floor buses, but it needs to be a bus designed today for tomorrow's use, not buses drawnb up in the 70s and 80s. The RIGHT bus would easily be the next Fishbowl.
Well, I feel bring back the METRO however, Yes update it a little make it more appealing for the Y2K Generation. I didn't mean for the EXACT same design to come back but the thing is that you don't want to stray away toooo much from the design that it's something off the wall like, THE INVERO!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Sheesh - did anyone actually BUY the Invero? Whoever designed that is hopefully unemployed... or maybe they were hired at GM and drew up the Aztek.
I have heard several accounts that Santa Monica Municipal Bus Lines and a Canadian Property has a order of Invero Buses, again this is hear-say so I don't know how true it is.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I believe that it was Long Beach and not Santa Monica, CA, that ordered the Invero. Also, I have heard that St. Catherines, Ont., is one Canadian property to order it. I believe either London, Ont., or Windsor, Ont., may be another. Can't confirm any of the above for sure, but did hear it from reliable sources.
>>> did anyone actually BUY the Invero? Whoever designed that is hopefully unemployed. <<<
I have only seen the Manufacturer's pictures of the Invero, but have seen their other 40 ft. LFs which seem pretty good. What is so different about the Invero and what are the shortcomings in the design?
Tom
New Flyer tried to follow the "retro-design" of a few current cars (Thunderbird, etc.). The Invero taillights look like they were inspired by a late 50s Dodge. If you look at an Invero from the side is looks new and modern. From the rear, it looks like an updated GM Old Look. The lines just don't match up.
I had seen the demo of the Invero at Atlantic Diesel in Lodi quite some time ago, but really didn't get a good look at it. It did look awfully strange and like something from the past, but I'd really have to get a longer look at it before deciding whether it might make it. I hated the Nova LFS when I first saw pictures of it, and even when I saw the demo up in St. Eustache (sp?), but when I saw and rode #995 on the M14 in NYC, I turned into a big Nova LFS fan. Perhaps I'll have the same experience with the Invero.
I LOVE the retro design of the Invero; in fact, mow that you mention it, it does look like a 1959 Dodge from the rear light configuration. I love those old Dodges and Plymouths, so that makes me like the bus so much more; thanks for the mention!
-F.
I can see that....it makes good financial sense. I have a business doing model buses; if I saw more money in selling model parts, I would prioritize them for sure. At the same rate, I have a LOT more fun building whole buses...so I would really have to flip a coin.
If production cost was not an issue, the least MCI could do is build a demo and see how it would go over with TAs. I'd bet it would do nicely for high-floor buyers.
-F.
That is awesome! Its good to know that the Flxible frame is still built. I saw pics and that F3500 REALLY looks different from a Metro!
-F.
The F is only using the same-design suspension framing. The body is a Dina/MCI creation. The F3500 even uses the projector headlights of the E/J series.
>>> They already have the Metro works in-house, which would look most congruent with their designs; however, they could easily purchase the Roswell works and have a "turn-key" operation with the RTS. <<<
You are sounding like the guys on Sub Talk who want to see the R9 subway car come back, or automobile enthusiasts who would like to have an original VW beetle. Like those other vehicles, the RTS and the to a lesser extent the Metro are from the past. These are old designs and will see dwindling sales in the future it anyone builds them.
Low floor transit buses are what is coming. The American public is aging due to the bulge in the population caused by baby boomers. New York City is an anomaly among American cities since a cross section of all the population uses the buses, while in much of America, the buses are used predominately by those too poor or infirm to drive their own automobiles. As the population ages there will be more and more people needing the low floor design to easily enter and exit transit buses. Cities will not ignore this when making new purchases. Wheelchair lifts are not a substitute for the low floor design. For every person using the lift, there are probably 20 more who do not use it but have some degree of difficulty mounting the steps and have to use the rails to pull themselves up and support themselves while alighting from the bus. This adds significant dwell time to stops. Since the purpose of a transit bus is to transport people for fairly short distances, ease of entry and egress is an important factor. Anyone who ignores this trend is sticking his head in the sand and pretending it is not happening. Those who love the RTS will have to settle for nostagia fan trips at some time in the future.
Tom
Well said Tom. It's time to move out of the Stone Age and start embracing modern, state of the art transit buses.
NABI: State of the Art, YES!
Neoplan: State of the Art, YES!
MCI: State of the Art, YES!
Orion: State of the Art, YOU NEED TO GO TO BELLVUE!
Personally I have nothing against moving up, over the past years I've probably been the top poster on this board to embrase something new, but in aging and reading up more, I learn what is quality and what isn't. And if the MTA or shall I say Pataki get off this Buy New York/Orion bullcrap then we'd be ok and we wouldn't be debating quality control issues in bus builders.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Hmmmm...It seems apparent that SEPTA and bus manufacturers have been in some type of bad karma. First we order those 80 Metrotrans buses, then the manufacturer goes kaput, and SEPTA sends the order to another manufacturer, which makes a rather homely bus. Now there are uncertainty that we`ll get all of the 300 Flyers ordered because of that company's financial problems. If the management of SEPTA had any smarts, they would have stayed with NEOPLAN, and got the low-floors, artics, and the 30 footers without any worries. This is another example of those stupid low-bid rules shoved down transit systems throats by short-sighted state and federal government regulations.
[This is another example of those stupid low-bid rules shoved down transit systems throats by short-sighted state and federal government regulations.]
I haven't really kept up on this, but I thought that the old low-bid rules of a number of years back were replaced by "negotiated bid" rules, which give the transit authority a lot more flexibility in determining from whom it will buy buses when Federal money is involved. If negotiated bid is the current method, I don't know how much flexibility the authorities have, but was under the impression that they could pretty much choose the manufacturer they wanted as long as the bid was not totally out of line. Also, frequently the specs are drawn up so that only one manufacturer can meet them.
Exactly. Now that I think of it, that may be a reason why Flxible went down; Metros usually came up high. That is why our TA (Valley Metro) wound up with Gilligs from 1988 on, after many years of Flxible buses, which were the most loved.
Had it been up to VM's personal preference, we would have received a fleet of Flxible Metro 30 and 35-footers instead of 35' Gilligs and a fleet of dumpy 25' Skillcrafts that everybody hated. If a TA prefers a bus type, they should be able to just get it. After all, this is America, for crying out loud!
-F.
Thanks to David P. for operating this board. Grateful that we've gotten through 9/11 and are still alive to talk about it.
Grateful also for all my friends and family as well as the friends I've made here and up in Branford.
May you all have a fulfilling holiday and may the family of the driver of 4661 find peace at this time.
Hart Bus
Happy Thanksgiving To You and Yours!
Regards,
The TransiTALK Family
www.transitalk.com
May all of the readers and posters of Bus/Sub Talk and their families have an enjoyable and Happy Thanksgiving.
Orlando
Well since I'm a single guy with not much family, the only thing to do (other than staying home) was taking the N21 to Flushing, and that is what I did.
I had bus 202 both ways. As some of you may or may not know, 202 was involved in a fire while back but it is back. The interior looked the same, and the engine sounded like the Cummins. But there was a difference. This bus was fast. Actually fast was an understatement, it is super fast. Certainly the L10G cannot perform this well, the engine had a lot of "zoom" to it. The L10G stopped production in 1999, so where could they have gotten another one anyway? This must be a newer version of the Cummins CNG engine, though I have no idea which. I've only heard of the C8.3G but that could be it.
All I can tell you was this bus flew. The accelleration was so fast you'd get slammed back into your seat!
Definately could give one of the DD S50G's a run for the money.
Well Flushing was very busy, lots of mystical beauties and dragon clips abound. Very little traffic and lighter than normal ridership, which also helped speed us along. It was pretty quiet everywhere except Flushing.
Today, after reading most of the posts about the NYC buses, let's see what buses in Philly, and NJ have made the shit-lists of the bus fans and operators in those systems. Please feel free to post all opinions on the board. My inquiring mind wants to know.
As an almost lifelong Philly Resident and Bus Rider, I hated the Volvos...they had that horrible hydraulic smell, and they far from comfortable (where was the shock system on those buses)
To be honest currently, I do not hate the current fleet of NABI and Artics....but whoever has designed the seats on the newer model buses left no room for standing passengers, which makes commuting hell.
I must agree with you on the Volvos. Another thing I hated was the fact that the rear portion of the damn things tended to SWAY WILDLY when travelling at highway speeds. The Neoplan artics didn`t do that, they were very stable at high speeds. The RTS's SEPTA had were slow, and I hated the corner rear seats in them, in fact that same awful defect has remained in all ofthe RTS's produced. I preferred any other corner rear seat in any other bus model produced. Another thing I couldn't stand about the SEPTA RTS's were that SEPTA didn't make them (or ordered) squarebacked RTS's. The slopeback was sooooo UGLY. That slopeback was the one thing that turned me off the RTS and got me in love with the Flxibles. Their square shape made the bus look like a bus.
I agree on the RTS's too......the slope back was ugly, and if i remember correctly, they had a lot of breakdowns. Speaking of swaying, ever been on the subway surface lines. I love the K-cars....but you can get dizzy on them.
Do u ever know what happened to NovaBus....it would have been nice to see a few of those on Market St....SEPTA was testing one at one point
K-Cars? I assume you're talking about subway cars? At first I thought you meant the Dodge Aries and Plymouth Reliant...LOL.
-F.
The "K" Cars are the subway surface trolleys (Kawasakis), Flxible. When they roll at high speeds they tend to rock and weave their way down the track. Personally, I love the ride, but I might see where some could get queasy.
They're not the prettiest things on rails, but do they ever roll!
Wow....I didn't know Kawasaki made subway cars! How cool. I guess they make a little bit of everything! I wonder if Mitsubishi or anyone else makes rail cars in Japan? I do know they make buses...
-F.
I agree; I used to prefer the slopeback to the squareback but after being used to the latter they just look so damned STRANGE to me. Overall I like the Flx better and agree with you there. If only SEPTA had some of those!
-F.
Do u mean the old flixibles or the new ones. I remember SEPTA's old ones...they were nice, but as far as the new models, im glad that SEPTA management kept Philadelphia free and clear of those "standard" looking buses. Neoplans are way better buses
Actually, my favorites are the "old" Flxible New Looks; I was referring to the newer Flx Metro. I actually like their design and think they are the best-looking design of modern transit buses. Neoplans are OK but I am more familiar with the Flxibles.
-F.
As a little boy, I remember riding the old Flixes on the Route 7 that went by my home. Those memories are so much of my childhood...brown seats and all. I think you would agree with me in saying that none of today's buses have that much character.
Hey...do u remember the old GMC's?
Of all the ADB style buses, the Flx 870/ Metro was undoubtedly the "cleanest" looking of all. No external rivets, the body panels flowed bi-directional, that is, along with the bus's movement. Flx far and away built many more buses than Neoplan, excluding the over the road stuff, that is.
When Neoplan won the major order for the State of Pennsylvania, many operators had problems with them. They were nicknamed on several Pa. operators as "rustbuckets". Hopefully the newer models are better. We'll see when Westchester (NY) gets theirs.
The 3000-series Neoplans at SEPTA haven't had as many problems as the first batch of Neos (the 8000s). Part of it may be the drivetrain, but I think Neoplan improved their product as the 1980s progressed.
Well, let's see what calamities have befallen these two harrowed divisons so far. NovaBus is folding their Roswell ops, which effectivly takes the RTS out of play. Then there is news that New Flyer's parent corp. went belly-up, probably taking out another major manufacturer whose bus build-qualities were becoming increasingly questionable in these parts. Now comes word that the Orion VII experiment with #7560 (is that the right #?) has enough bugs in it to make the recent R-142 subway car order look like child's play. All this as two depots are slated to re-open within the next three years. Combined with the aging fleet problems being faced at FP and QV, these two divisions staring down the barrel of probably the worst bus crisis since the Grumman fiasco of the early 1980s. Orion, in reality, cannot make the several hundred V series in time for the openings, esp. if half are to be powered by natural gas.
IMO, it time that the MTA diversify their options. Namely, take a chance in remaining manufacturers like NABI, Neoplan, and MCI (who should experiment more with transit buses instead of sticking solely to the commuter/long-haul market, which may fizzle sooner than later).
You haven't even touched upon the fact that because of the NYCT TWU Local 100 Benefit Trust issue, the MTA/NYCT has insisted on persuing discussion regarding the 'Regional Bus Company' proposal, which now appears to be making slight forward progress, against the wishes of the unions.
The MTA/NYCTA wishes to create one single bus entity, consolidating NYCT/MaBSTOA and possibly MSBA LIB into one NON-CIVIL-SERVICE 'company'.
Stay tuned. Contract talks coming to a depot near you....
I didn't mention it b/c I didn't know about that situation. But that speaks volumes of the mess developing in MaBSTOA/NYCT. And a "Regional Bus Company?" Non-civil-service positions? Would that be like the Pioneer Valley Authority in Mass.? (Anyone from Transitalk can help me out here)
My opinion is that your panic is premature. RTS production has decreased the past year or two, so losing it totally is no big deal. It is still too early to count New Flyer out. I don't know enough about the Orion VII problem to know whether or not it will eventually be produced. With new MCI's coming to NYC in 2002, the current Orion and Nova express buses can replace the worst of the older RTS's. Don't forget that, until AMG started producing transit buses in the mid-1970's, the transit industry got along very well for 15 or more years with only two bus manufacturers (GM and Flxible); there are a lot more now.
Don't count out New Flyer so fast. Although I am a CPA and not a lawyer I have a basic understanding of United States Bankruptcy law.
Under our system there are two different sections that a company files under. The first asks the court to allow more time to pay (or stiff) creditors by settling claims for pennies on the dollar, breaking leases, etc.
The second (liquidation) a trustee is appointed who sells off the assets, collects the receivables, pays the taxes and debts in a certain order and if (l-o-l) there's anything left, pay the shareholders.
If the NF bankruptcy was under the first section, the court would look to see if the company was viable and if so, would do what it could to keep it going. If it is under the second method, presumable the Dutch company owned all the stock of the American Company and the trustee would sell the stock of the American Company to somebody.
Therefore as Mark Twain once said "the reports of my death have been highly exaggerated". Stay tuned.
New Flyer Is a Canadian Company Based In Manotoba With Plants In Manotoba and Montana
Damned right; MCI should get BACK into real transits if they know what's good for them. They offer psuesdo-transits but that's about it. They need something with TEETH.....something like the Metro (they've got the moldings, gathering dust....WTF???) or if nothing else, the RTS design. They did well with the Classic for a few years; if they come back with a truly modern and proven design (either of the two above), they will make it big with MANY TAs across the board, including NYC or WMATA. Hell, at this point, they might actually turn a PROFIT with transit buses!
-F.
TransiTALK Updated MTA-NYC Bus & Subway Rosters Now Available including Completed Repower List by Depot and Other Buses Recently Sold To NYPD, NTSB and Red & Tan of Jersey City....
Bus Roster (List Style)
Bus Roster (Depot Style with Repower & Sold List)
Subway Roster
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I have one question about them. I saw one the other day (don't know the #), I was wounding were is the F/B? I though that I saw it were the first two seats are. Is this right?
Robert
Yes that is correct, the Coin and Metrocard Farebox is where the first forward-facing seat is on the door side. The Dollar Box is where the F/B is normally on a NYCT Cruiser.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
thanks
Robert
Am planning a trip tomorrow(11/24/01) to Staten Island. Hopefully, will be able to see what is operating on the S79,S61 and other routes. My hope is that Yukon can work on the windows of the Orion V locals that they have to remove the scratches. i mean, if Castleton can do it, why not Yukon? Hopefully, we will see.
My morning commute was the regular Red Line to Grosvenor and then the 37 on Orion V/CNG 005820. Later in the day, I took the 38 to Wheaton. This was my first trip on the 38 on which I rode from White Flint to Wheaton (well, I got off at the stop before). It was Orion V 995705, one of the 40 footers. I've seen them on the 38 before and thought running them in Potomac neighboorhoods was absurd. The Garrett Park side isn't much better. There are many tight curves and small streets, including one where its two lanes, one for parking and one for traffic. I wonder if 5820 has trouble on the 37 every morning in the peak direction.
After I took care of what I needed to do in the Wheaton area, I realized it was about 1:55 and that meant there was a 2:00 Q2 and a 2:04 Y8, both to Silver Spring. I walked hastily to the Metro Station. As I crossed Viers Mill Road, a Q2 was signed up for Silver Spring (Metro-E 4041) and was waiting for the light to turn green. This was at about 1:57!!! The Y8 (Flxible Metro-D) had pulled to its berth to wait a few minutes, but I didn't get to it in time. At about 1:58 and 30 seconds, he pulled away, came around the loop, and when I waved, he ignored me. He was out of the loop at 1:59, 5 mintues earlier than scheduled. I walked to the berths and saw Orion V 2141 waiting to enter the loop. This was also signed Q2 to Silver Spring so I got on and took it there. We actually caught up to 4041 at Georgia Avenue near Spring Street. I like how the talking buses now announce transfers to the Metro, although at Forest Glen Road, there was no mention of the Red Line transfer.
I saw two buses with flags on the back, one of which was 9803.
I went to the Ride-On berths to catch the 2:21 1. It wasn't there yet and didn't come for about 10 minutes. During this time, I got photos of two of the 5200 series buses. I think Ride-On should spread out the buses on that upper level. They have about half their routes stopping at one stop making for lots of crowding and confusion, especially when multiple buses pull up.
The 1 left about 10 minutes late and was quite crowded. This was Gillig 5368. This was the first time I had taken the 1 and it had gone via Leland Street (the other times it had gone via East-West Highway or I got off before that point). The Leland Street routing is quite slow and turning to head south on Connecticut takes forever.
We got there about 5 minutes before the 3:00 23 was due to leave. It was a contractor bus, number 5364C. For those of you interested, these are newer buses but they are still ATE/Ryder and they are still crap.
Part 3 of last week's trip to NYC, actually has bus travels, click here
When I was leaving work today, I noticed someone recording tape of one of SEPTA's new low-floor buses on the Route 113. It was shortly after 3pm at 69th Street and Marshall Rd, about 3/4 of a mile from the terminal.
Was it any of you folks?
METROCARD & CARDHOLDERS COLLECTORS CATALOG
This is an 8.5 inch x 11inch 20 page booklet printed by the MTA. They later decided not to distribute it. It is OUT OF PRINT! It contains 20 glossy, color pages of actual size photos of 1997-99 commemorative MetroCards & cardholders. Full color photos of the Subway Series 97, Then and Now, Emigrant, JVC Jazz, Healthy City, Ferry Boat, Yankees 98, Subway Cool, Millennial Journeys, Mets International Week plus 63 Cardholders including the complete Great Subway series. All photos are actual size & full color! A beautiful collectors MUST HAVE. The supply is limited. When they are gone, they are gone.
Send $15.00 ea. plus $2. P & H in check or Money Order
made out to: Mike Makman, To: Prof. Putter, Po Box 755
Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
METROCARD MANIA BOOK - Fun With Used MetroCards!
This beautiful paperback book was published by Price Stern & Sloan. It is now OUT OF PRINT. It includes over 30 different projects using NYC MetroCards. Games, magic tricks, toys. Great for kids from 8 to adult. Autographed by author at buyer¹s request. To order send $8 each + $3.00 (s&h) (outside USA $6.00 s&h) in US money, check or money order made out to: Michael Makman. Send order to: Professor Putter PO Box 755, Planet Station New York , NY 10024-0539
When was the X25 created?
I believe the X-25 was created in the late 1970's possibly 1976. It was originally created as a tie in with x-27 which was then assigned to Fifth Avenue(now Jackie Gleason Depot).
Hope this helps
Thank You
When were the above routes renamed from their old numbers, X20, X14, X18, X23 and X23 respectively?
Well you have the old numbers listed incorrectly. The X63 was originally the Q20X, later the X20. The X64 was the Q24X, then the X24. The X68 was the Q18X, later the X18. The X90/92 was the X23. I believe that got its current number when the 23rd Street Crosstown was renumbered from the M26 to the M23.
From 1987 to 1989, Queens underwent a major route renumbering as the TA routes dropped the many "A's", "B's", and other suffixes after their route numbers (the first was the Q5A/5AB becoming the Q85 in 1987). Part of this saw the Q44FS (one of many "Q44's") become the Q20, resulting in the X20 becoming X63. The B22 became the Q24, hence the X24 became the X64. The X18 was renumbered, I guess, to remain consistent with the other two lines. Besides Triboro Coach operates the Q18 (on the other side of Queens). I hope this helps.
On last night's episode, a mother had 3 children in foster care with the same family. One of the children are killed and the natural mom and her boyfriend "kidnap" the remaining two. The detectives alert the bus and train stations and get a call they they've left on a bus from the PABT heading "down south".
The next scene shows the bus pulled over by NYPD, the detectives board and take the boyfriend off the bus for kidnapping.
The bus was a Shortline MCI 102 DL3. Didn't think that SL "goes down south" and the spot of the filming looked like a quiet parkway in Westchester not the NJ Turnpike.
Same thing happened Wednesday night on L&O. Some "perps" are taken off a "Greyhound". Clearly it was an Academy bus.
yea i saw those two episodes also featuring academy and short line.while the part about the buses is not factual its good seeing on such a great show.
According to today's Newsday a 40 year old man driving a pick-up truck collided with a Suffolk County Transit bus at about 10 AM yesterday in Mastic. The truck then careened into another car and the fellow was ejected from the p/u and died.
According to the article the bus was w/b on Wavecrest Drive when it collided with the truck at Mastic Blvd.
Both vehicles were impounded for safety checks, which is normal in the case of a fatality.
Bus number or contractor company not mentioned. No reported injuries to the driver nor any criminal charges filed against any of the 3 drivers involved.
Based on www.sct-bus.org, the bus was operating on the 7E route. If I read the schedules properly, the bus was the 9:10AM from the Shirley Mall and was about to finish the route back at the mall (it's a loop route).
The article from NEWSDAY said that the guy died at 10:55 AM.
The transit bus industry is a mess. This mess was made by the Federal Government, and this mess was created back in the 70's with the Feds trying to force Transbus down everybody's throat, and those pesky regulations regarding handicapped access. Throw in the Feds busting the GM dominance of the industry in the 50's and 60's, and you see the mess we have today.
In the 80's the Feds then had the balls to invite foreign manufacturers to come to the USA and make transit buses. How did GM and Flxible felt about it? They felt that the Feds were screwing them over, although the Feds had "good intentions" about creating competition in this industry. They wanted to further divide the bus building industry because more manufacturers would keep GM and Flxible on their toes and they could force more mandates on the industry. This crap eventually forced GM to get out of the business and Flxible to die. Before this crap, GM and Flxible were content to compete with each other. Then AM General got into the mix. But three wasn't really a crowd because many transit systems had overage equipment to replace, many riders demanded amenities such as air-conditioning, and the first fuel crisis (Arab oil embargo of '73-74) finally got America thinking about mass transit again. Then Uncle Sam listened to the disabled, and decided to force the infamous DOT 504 regs down the transit industry throat. When the industry began to design replacements for the New Looks, Uncle Sam said "If I'm paying for these buses, then you'll build them my way!" Eventually, the industry stuck back by refusing to bid on the 1979 order for Transbus to be built for SEPTA, SCRTD, and Metro-Dade. Uncle Sam gave up, but vowed to get revenge on the builders. They really got the industry with the Clean Air Act and the ADA. Those two started the depression in the bus making market that really hasn't recovered since.
There are too many manufactures chasing a market with too few customers. We need a attrition of makers so we could have no more than 2 or 3 manufacturers. That is well enough for this industry.
I hope to start a dialogue on this subject. Please forgive me for being so long winded, and if you find a fact that is not true or incomplete, please feel free to state your corrections on the board.
Mark De Loatch
Mdlbigcat@aol.com
Got word that New Jersey Transit is considering remanufacturing the current 1989 Flxible METRO Models 40096-6T & 40102-6T "METRO-B" fleet. Things that would be done would be a engine swap out from DDC Series 92s to Cummins Engines, LED Light Additions, New Destination Signs, New Interior Floors and Seat Cushions.
I really hope NJT follows through with this idea...It would keep a good quality bus in service for some more years to come!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Well the death of the RTS give new life to the Flxibles. Ain't this a bitch? Oh well, better it a Flx than anything else.
No comment; see my handle. :)
-F.
Why not Series 50? What does NJT have against good old reliable Detroit Diesel?
Don't say Detroit Diesel is SOOOOO reliable. For one the Cummins engines run alot cleaner than the Detroit Diesel Series 50 come to find out, even with DDCs EGR program.
And just like the MTA, Cummins is a creature of habit for New Jersey Transit. Also to, the point of this program would be to make then as close a counterpart as the 1994 Flxible Model 40102-6C8 "METRO-D" buses.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The new Cummins ISL might be a better choice than the ISC for the suburbans. The highest rated ISC is 280 hp/900 lb-ft. The ISL (8.9L) can be rated at 330/1100, higher than the transit version of the larger ISM. Add the 5-speed ZF, and those Metro suburbans would be real highway runners.
Only downside I see to this reman process: unless they upfit them all with wheelchair lifts, expect the ADA groups to file lawsuits claiming NJT is trying to keep non-accessible buses in service longer.
ADA upgrades IS included in the upgrade plans. That was number 1 on the table! Since it was kinda obvious that would be happening if the reman program proceeds, I didn't see the necessity to make note of it in the post.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I was hopinfg that would be the deal as well... The FTA won't pay for a reman unless you bring everything up to spec, and then you have to keep them for 7 more years.
It appears NJY had their hearts set on the RTS suburban, and with that uncertainty, decided the heck with it - let's fix what we have for less $.
Especially now since NJT is in a financial bind themselves. As you may know that NJT was spending the Captial Improvement Funds on Operations. So now they are a little short on $$$$. We may be looking down the throat of a fare increase soon.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
And a fare increase might not be a bad idea. Easily justified by the overcrowding (the increase is needed to fund improved operations).
I just hope they take the time to do it right, and re-align the zones as well. There is no reason why a bus from Teaneck (west of Teaneck Road) to NTC is the same $2.55 whether one goes to the GWB or the PABT. And in response, the 178 and 182 are a shadow of their former selves, while the 167 runs 2-minute headways in the morning, and the 168 spun off the 155 and 157 express routes. And hiw is the 780 a 2 zone trip from Teaneck Road and Forest Avenue to Englewood Hospital, when the 178 is one zone all the way to the GWB stop in Fort Lee?
Base local fare can stay at $1.00. But the intrastate zone should be a flat 60 cents, and the south Jersey discount should be eliminated. The interstate runs can start at $1.25 with 75 cent zones. Simple, easy to understand.
I have to agree with you on some points, particularly the alignment of zones within North Jersey. It also makes sense to have a simplified zone charge instead of the confusing system in place today.
I do, however, disagree with having two separate intra-state fares. The main reason that NYC to North/Central Jersey service is rated higher than Philadelphia to South Jersey is because of the proportionate increase between the Hudson River crossings into NYC and the Ben Franklin Bridge into Philadelphia. Hence, the costs of operating service into the PABT and GWB Terminals are higher than operating service into Philadelphia.
Also, the zone fare should be 50 cents rather than 60 cents. This would undoubtedly simplify the fare structer even further. For longer distance trips (12+ zones - ie. NYC/Newark to Lakewood; Philadelphia/Camden to Asbury Park; NYC/Newark and Philadelphia/Camden to Atlantic City, etc.), the fare beyond the 12th or 13th zone should increase to 75 cents or $1.00.
I think you confused the terms:
- intrastate: in-state travel
- interstate: crossing a state line
My proposal is just one set of intrastate fares - $1.00 first zone, 60 cents additional zone, statewide, no exceptions. The interstate fare is $1.25 and 75 cents, statewide, no exceptions. That 1.25/75-cent zone charge is only applied if your trip crosses a state line.
You still are introducing variants and exceptions for longer trips. This is what got NJT in trouble in the first place - inconsistency.
Here's the first 7 zones of the north and south Jersey intrastate fares:
North: 1.00 - 1.55 - 1.90 - 2.30 - 2.55 - 2.90 - 3.20
South: 1.00 - 1.40 - 1.70 - 2.05 - 2.30 - 2.60 - 2.90
The zone prices are ridiculously uneven, ranging from 25 to 55 cents. And we have a budget problem. Making it the flat 60 cents means people traveling 25-30 miles (zone 7) are paying their fair share of the trip. I can't think of anyone who is taking a 7-zone trip (nearly 30 miles) being claasified as poor/needy/etc. Those are the urban 1 and 2 xone riders, and all they are going to pay is a nickel more max.
My plan: 1.00 - 1.60 - 2.20 - 2.80 - 3.40 - 4.00 - 4.60
For the interstate rider, the same situation occurs, and applies. Inconsistent zone charges, resulting in people farther away not paying enough. A 10-zone interstate trip right now is $7.15. My plan would have it $8.00 - not that big a deal. But a 20-zone trip is currently $12.65. My plan makes it $15.50, where it should be. And from zone 23 to 24, the fare skyrockets from 14.30 to 17.00! My plan has that going from 17.25 to 18.00. Know why they make that huge jump? Because that's the zone NJT picked as the final "commuting zone".
The even bigger farce is the monthly pass for long distance interstate riders. Are you aware that from zone 18 to 23, the monthly pass is the same $274, even though the one way fare ranges from $11.55 (18) to $14.30 (23)? Do the math on a 40-trip month. The full fare for a 23-zone rider would be $572. The monthly pass is $274. That's less than half! A commuter is getting senior-citizen fares! Inexcusable! Most people who buy long-distance passes are not paying by cash like somebody picking up a 1 or 2-zone pass in downtown Newark. They can be charged a weird number. Make the pass percentage even and consistent across the board. If you want it to be 25%, then make sure that's what it is.
That is a GREAT idea. Not only does it save money, but it's just like having a brand new Flx! Throw in an ISL/Voith combo, Alcoa rims, LEDs, new flooring, and cloth-lined seats, and you've got a whole new bus. I really hope they rehab those!
-F.
I have been riding the M16 for yers now and frankly,I am not impressed with service.It sometimes take the M16 30 minuites to arrive at a stop(Nearly 3 times as worse as the C the worst train serice in the system).
Especially this time of year, crosstown routes have poor service reliability due to traffic congestion. If you ride one of those lines from end to end, you will see why. In all fairness, the TA can put only so many buses on the road due to personell costs.
Started off at Coney Island on the B64-full trip to Bay ridge(got caught in traffic on 86th Street between Ft Hamilton pkwy and 5th av-walked-beet the bus). Connected with the S79 bus and someone must have listened to me becasue i did not see any scratches on it. It was Orion V #6341. Upon arrival at Yukon depot, could see many MCI buses parked inside and RTS buses as well. I did see #8305 and #8310(both repowered)-parked outside.
If you want to get schedules, they are located downstairs-did not see a S79 schedule though. After the garage, took S59 to Ricmond Av-Arthur Kill Road to the transit center. Mostly MCI buses parked here-connected to S74 towards ferry. It's run number did not make sense to me(run 340). Got off by New Dorp.
After my dinner, started back to Brooklyn on S79 bus and caught the SAME model back to Bay Ridge and connected with B64 bus. Walked around Ulmer Park garage and saw about 4 4700's parked in the back,frontsa facing gate-are these to be repaired? Also, saw about 15 buses parked outside the front of the garage. Are they waiting to be pakred inside? Finally took the B82 back home.
I wish the trip had more variety though.
B64-4787-TMCRTS-06
S79-6341-Orion V
S59-6249-orion V
S74-6291-Orion V
S79-6341-Orion V
B64-4862-TMCRTS-06
B82-9061-NOVABUS
run 340 is a miscellaneous. that means working more than one line the same day.
I have questions regarding the service to this part of the Bronx:
When was the Bx10/24 (today's Bx7/10) rerouted away from Fieldston Road to the City Line.
Was this at the same time as the M100 OR Bx20 cutback to 254th?
And when was the M100 split into the M100 and Bx20, was this at the same time as the Bx7 extension from 207 to 168?
I'm coming from school on the M101 suothbound, and I see this bus, IN SERVICE, waiting to turn off of 125th St to Amsterdam Av. I'm thinking that AMS should have had enough buses to cover Sunday service. Either they're so short that they needed extras out of KB, or (Gasp!) a swap may be in progress. Any news on this?
I can't beleave they got a Nova RTS on the timetables for the 84/86 Line. I shocked!
I'm not quite sure why the shock. Last time I checked, Nova RTS's were used on a majority of the runs on the 84/86.
Where have you been it's been like that since they retired the 1983 Flxible Metro A's back in 1995/96. That is what used to be on those lines, also some 1981 870's too. Sometimes during rush hour, you will see an occasional metro b on those lines, but seldomly do they appear.
Tone
I think he was referring to the fact that the timetables are now starting to feature the RTS instead of the Flxible. I'm only surprised it took as long as it did.
HOLY TOLEDO!!!! Call the timetable police....
Oh, you can't be SERIOUS!
lol
Well, those lines should have RTS's on their timetables as they carry primarily RTS's, the last time I checked...
but that really shouldn't be a big issue...
I think Q46 thinks that if a bus is primarily run on a line, it should be featured on its timetables. Like, the #165 and 166 timetables have an MIC mC-9A on it, while the #80 schedule has a Flxible on it...so why not put an RTS on the #84 schedule as well? Right?
Philly, I noticed, does somethng similar, except they put their Neoplans on everything that runs in Center City and Upper Darby, with Cutaways on routes which run them.
And then, there's the TA, which puts what looks like a diesel version of the New Flyer D40LF in NYCT colors...which seems funny in a way in that WE HAVE CNG's, NOT DIESELS--Where's the tank? (Oh, BTW, who's the guy in the driver's seat, anybody we know?)
Finally, the NYCDOT, which puts their Orions (mostly, AFAIK, Orion Vs) on their schedules.
It's just a matter of what satisfies the operators that put the schedules out. That's all...
Cleanairbus
What NJT is likely to do is this:
- transit routes get the RTS image
- suburban routes get the Flxible image (since they're apparently going to rebuild all the 1989s)
- cruiser routes get the D4000 image
Sounds good to me. In that case, consider me a NJT bus fan for a good long while!
-F.
SEPTA usually puts its NABIs on most of it's schedules, with artics on lines which use them (6, 9, 18, 22, 27, 33, 48, 55, 60, 65 and 80), with Breeze buses or ElDorados on the on the smaller routes. I would expect the New Flyers will start showing up on the timetables next year.
Not on the schedule I have, but mine is a Route 21 schedule, and it has a Neoplan on it...
Carlton
a.k.a. Cleanairbus
The new low floor New Flyer buses are arriving in Stamford and are really quite nice. A surprise was the change in paint scheme to blue and silver. An educated guess is the 31 buses ( 5 extra to Hartford) will replace all or most Scanias. An operator said he believed the Classics would be transferred instead. Riding the Scanias was like being in the Mack C49's. I'll miss these unusual buses, a welcome addition to a ho-hum industry.
JRC
The Scanias are already off the road in Stamford. I wonder if those 5 extra buses are being built for I-Bus service...
No, they are en route to the Hartford Division, NOT for the I-Bus. They will continue using New Flyer D40HFs, #961 and 962 covered, #963 and #964 uncovered.
Cleanairbus
For those of you who know a lot about Triboro buses, can you tell me why the Q19A transfers say Q51? Was the Q19A called the Q51 back then?(If so tell me what year), And what about the Q19B, was it always called by Q19B?
-
All RTS 85'GMC's must die!
I would assume that the transfer system does not support suffixes. In 1988 all of the suffixed TA routes in Queens (there were many) were given new numbers. The privates did not follow. Had they done so, the Q19A could have become the Q51.
Queens Bus Renumbering of 1988
Probably the biggest headache facing the Department Of Buses (DOB) is the fact that they have 630 pre-1990 RTS's in the fleet which will not meet the new emission standards set to go into effect in 2003. It appears, according to Q5 Merrick's post of 11/19/01, that DOB is not planning on purchasing any new transit buses in 2002 to replace these older RTS's. With the exception of MCI all of DOB's other current suppliers (Nova Bus, New Flyer and Orion) are either having financial difficulty or build quality problems. Unless these manufacturers resolve their difficulties it seems to me that DOB has only 4 possible options at this time. They are as follows;
1) The fastest and probably the most inexpensive solution would be to repower the 630 older RTS's with DD-50 engines. I don't know if this would also require changing the transmissions or if the transmissions currently on these buses are compatible with the DD-50. This could be a temporary fix until a better solution is found.
2) This one makes me nauseous just thinking about it but here it goes; Remanufacture the 630 older RTS's either in house or have it done by a contractor such as Midwest or Blitz. This should be a complete remanufacturing and not just a patch job. A well done complete remanufacturing would insure at least 10 additional years of service from each bus. (10 more years of !@#$%^&* RTS's! UGH!)
3) Actively seek bids from other manufacturers. Why not give NABI, Neoplan, Gillig or some of the foreign manufacturers such as Mercedes, Volvo, Scania, Iveco a chance to market their buses? Who knows, you may find the perfect RTS replacement from at least one of them.
4) This one will probably never happen but here it goes anyway; Actively solicit MCI to dust off the Flxible Metro design and bring it back to market. MCI is known for building a quality bus so maybe if they manufacture an updated version of the Metro it could prove to be a huge success.
Well, regardless of what transpires, 2002 is shaping up to be an interesting year for DOB. Will just have to wait and see what happens.
That should be spelled DILEMMA. Sorry, I should have proof read it better.
Actually - It's spelled DILEMNA.
I can only wish the Flxible Metro would return to service. I was in NYC this weekend and saw many '86 GM RTS's. I wonder if their frames are such that it's worth rebuilding them. I agree with you about the TA looking at other manufacturers. I'd like to see some NABI's come to New York in both standard 40-foot and 60-foot artics. I never dorve one, but I've ridden plenty of the NABI's at WMATA and they seem to be workhorses.
Wayne
Personally, I would reconsider NYCT's current obsession with articulateds and seriously think about 45-foot low-floor transit buses.
The newly-redesigned NABI CompoBus will be available in 45' as well as 40' versions.
I like the first two. Hopefully this collapse of the tranist bus industry will cause the DOB to recycle the RTS buses for at least another 10-15 years. Doesn't the thought of driving a 25 year old RTS just make you feel all warm and mushy inside? I know I do!
Well NYCT rebuilds and overhauls it's subway cars, so why not buses?
I personally like the RTS, it's a proven, reliable design and they hold up much better than the Orion V's. I wouldn't mind seeing the Metro design return, though. I sure wish LI Bus didn't scrap it's Metro fleet. I loved those tinted windows.
Metro in Washington, DC rebuilds buses. They even put a small plaque on the inside front of the bus "Proudly rehabilitated by Metro" and give the bus's original number and date of rehabilitation. The first time I read the plaque, I thought the bus was recently released from jail.
Michael
i can see that some of the DOB buses are being updated. new windows can be found on Command #359 and #360 and some Triboro Coach buses as well as Green. DOB should have ordered low floor when they had the chance.
I believe DOB is part of the NYC Transit Authority. The companies you mention receive their buses (and marching orders) from the NYC Department of Transportation. You've got to be careful not to get DOB and DOT mixed up!
I say repower all TMCs, not just 8000-8566. The 4600s-4800s are TMCs and run well. If not repower, send to Midwest and then have series 7800-7999 to keep in series with 8000-8703
"...repower all TMCs, not just 8000-8566...(The 4600s-4800s)...send to Midwest and then have series 7800-7999 to keep in series with 8000-8703..."
Good idea, and under the present circumstances. quite practical. At the same time, let's re-evaluate our articulated obsession and seriously give the idea of 45" low-floor buses (a la NABI 45C-LFW CompoBus) a chance.
[let's re-evaluate our articulated obsession and seriously give the idea of 45" low-floor buses (a la NABI 45C-LFW CompoBus) a chance]
Where does NABI stand on the 45-foot CompBus? I believe Valley Metro in Phoenix was supposed to get some quite some time ago, but delivery has long been delayed. I haven't been to Phoenix in quite a while, so I don't know whether they've finally arrived yet.
I like the Neoplan TLF; that is a sharp looking bus, especially the front end.
-F.
The Phoenix order is still green-lit; in fact, they should begin assembly and delivery soon.
let NYC get the NABI buses. I mean, if they can run all over the 50 states, why not ny?
B4-9091-NOVABUS
How about upgrading the vintage bus fleet, they can't be any worse than some of the garbage out there !!!!!!!
No kidding. Hell, rehab the Grummans from NJT and put them back in NYC....that's what I say!
-F.
Exactly.
-F.
The ATU Local 1056 monthly meeting will be held in two sessions on Tuesday, November 27th 2001. There will be no December meeting due to the Holiday Party.
Please see Queens Village Depot Online and access the "Union" section for full details.
All those who are ATU members are encouraged to attend!
Hi Good evening,
I have seen 3 route variations on t he east side from 42 street and 2 av
2 av--40 st ---1 av
or
2 av --39 st---3 av
or
2 av --38 st --3
Can some one out there ,verify the correct routing
Thanks
Steve
The correct routing is the second one. On 2nd Av to E 39th St to 3rd Av to E 42nd St and regular.
Ray
Does anybody how long this routing will be in place? Also, how much longer will the M27/M50 be rerouted as far east as 2nd Avenue? Also, how much longer will the M15 run express between 38th and 49th streets on 1st Avenue?
I'm guessing the reason for the reroutes are the routes's proximity to the U.N.
Michael
Yeah, that's what it is. Since the 9/11 attacks, the MTA had done a number of things. This could go on for some time.
Ray
I don't think these are really MTA-inspired changes. I believe the local portion of First Avenue is closed between the streets mentioned above, as are the affected cross-streets leading to and from First Avenue (for U.N. security reasons, no doubt). So MTA-NYC Bus had no choice but to re-route the M104, M42 and M27/50. Having recently had to transfer from a northbound M-15 to the M27/50, it is a bit inconvenient.
More new buses are on the way east. A week ago Saturday I saw a SEPTA Flyer on the way thru Chicago and Sunday I saw a WMATA Flyer traveling east. The WMATA bus had the front covered with clear plastic below the windshield I guess to prevent chips in the paint.
The MBTA recently received 16 of their order for the Silver Line, which will open March 2002. They will be numbered 6002-6016.
Are the New WMATA Flyers CNG powered? It looks like they have the CNG tank lump on the roof.
Yes, they are CNG powered.
They must have to stop to refuel at CNG Transit Authoritys along the way?
Yes they are.
BTW, the WMATA C40LFs are numbered 2300-2399.
When these buses first came out, they were state of the art, at least for SEPTA. They were the first with the voice announcement system, the first with a new scheme. They had graphics when wishing a happy holiday, and had the logo on the last window. Now, the graphics are gone, the logo is now, and now, the stripe, the only thing that made these buses stand out, is now leaving. The horror!
Now this is strange!
Nova RTS Running the Bx12 today. Since when no other then Artics where running the Bx12?
Orion5 running the Bx5 today. A ORION5 ON BX5????? MY GOD!!!
Also saw Orion5 #6039 and RTS #8086 on I-678 today. #6039 had a M1 Headsign and No depot logo in the rear. #8086 had a FP Logo. BUT I think #8086 was going to get repowered since I did not see a pipe on it. BUT WHERE'S #6039 GOING? WHO KNOW'S!
Nova's on the 12 happen occassionaly when there is no more artics available for the pull out, I've seen Nova's on the Bx12 hundreds of times since the Artic implimentation.
As for the Orion on the Bx5, Gun Hill has three Orion 05.501s (#402-403-405) which were slated for use on the Bx29 ONLY, but since they are in the garage, they can be really used anywhere, so don't be shocked if you see one of these three pop up anywhere else on a GH line.
As for the Highway buses they could've been heading to or from plenty of places, Like:
Zerega Shops
ENY Shops
Detroit Diesel Lodi
Detroit Diesel Bohemia
etc.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Orion # 403 was working the Bx 29 on Sunday. I spotted the bus on City Island.
Hmmm, 8086 with a Fresh Pond patch. I doubt if we're getting it. Zerega(or wherever it came from) must had made a mistake by putting a FP patch instead of a GH patch. I would be very surprised to see it here.
-Jay
Here's 1 my friend saw and this is no joke: 8420 was on the Q32 yesterday, 11-25-01. It was repowered, however he didn't see the decal. It had aluminum wheels and no it is not 8470 or 8480-those also have aluminum wheels.
8086 at FP-could be a loan just like 519 is at QV.
#519 Q46
#8420 Q32
At the Highway 3 police precinct on the GCP is a former NYCT RTS sitting in the front lot. There is a number on the rear which I didn't get. What was the original TA number and what is the current NYPD number if any? Also any info on the former Triboro bowl that was there?
I was told that the Fishbowl was replaced by an RTS, but I haven't passed by there in a while. Does anyone know what year that Fishbowl was? I thought it was a mid-'60's model. Hope it wasn't scrapped....
Are you sure it wasn't a Flx New Look? I recently saw an ex-NYPD unit starting at $700 on eBay....
-F.
Wonder if that wasn't one of the police buses MSBA had? After the '84 Flxible Metros were scrapped, they set two aside, buses #1001 and #1003 for use by the police. They kept them in the county colors and just covered the MSBA logo with NYPD. At one point they also had a fishbowl for the same purpose. It was the last remaining coach, #117 (renumbered 9117 after the new fleet of CNG's arrived). I don't think any of those buses were used once.
I'm not sure; why were the 84 Metros scrapped?
-F.
There's a new NYPD bus at GCP and Franny Lew. Ex TCC 743 is gone and what appears to be 3924 from QV is in her place. Whereabouts of 743 are unknown as of this time-maybe at 58 St and 53 Ave facility.
#9364 Q46
??? Was this a Flx, by any chance?
-F.
No Fred-------if you'd remember from previous posts the Fishbowl is definitely a GMC Model T6H - 5307 A # 0148 ---Sorry
Oh, I see...gotcha. Thanks!
-Fred
The fishbowl is GM T6H-5307A Serial # 0148. It formerly was Triboro Coach # 743 and served most of its time on the Woodside-Rockaway Beach Route Q-53.
NYPD did also get a brand new GM fishbowl delivered in 04/73. It was T8H5307A-1166. I did have a 35mm slide of it, but sold off the collection a couple years ago -- it was normal bare-metal corrugation with a NYPD blue (no pun intended) top and the usual NYPD lettering, logo, etc. It even had a light bar on the front end. It was a single-door bus at that.
According to Ohio Museum of Transportation's lists the bus was delivered to the NYC Transit Authority Police as Vehicle # 3000 not the NYPD.
Could this info be incorrect ????
I'd bet their information IS more correct than what I have -- my listing just says "New York Police".
I'd bet their information IS more correct than what I have -- my listing just says "New York Police". But the photo I had (35mm slide), I distinctly remember a bus #3000 saying "Police Department" down the sides, I don't recall it saying anythign about the TA.
"According to Ohio Museum of Transportation's lists the bus was delivered to the NYC Transit Authority Police as Vehicle # 3000 not the NYPD.
Could this info be incorrect ????"
100% correct.
The Fishbowl was at Highway 3 about a month ago
I saw this bus on "Blind Date"- and i saw it in the new timetables for CAT. I dont reconize the company. I know CAT had Flyers(40 and 60 ffot)-Gilligs and Flexible Metro. Anyone know the roster of CAT?
I don't have number by number roster but here is the CAT fleet consist:
NABI Model 40LFW
NABI Model 436 Articulated
New Flyer D40LF
New Flyer D60HF
Either GMC or TMC RTS
and a few small buses, I guess for Paratransit use.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
When I was last in Las Vegas several years back, I remember seeing a few Gilligs and Flxible Metros. I don't remember seeing any RTS's.
The Las Vegas Transit System (most likely CAT's predecessor agency) bought 5 T8J-204 RTS buses (4521-4525) in 1980 and 2 TMC T80-206 RTS buses in 1992.
For the most part, the buses are New Flyers and NABIs.
There were five RTS's (4521-4525) originally operated by Las Vegas Transit (Gray Line of Southern Nevada dba...) but they wre bought by the City of Las Vegas/County of Clark Regional Transportation Commission. Then there were another pair (4301-4302) bought later on.
I don't know if they are still there, the last year or so I haven't seen them on frequent visits to Las Vegas.
Besides the twelve (4601-4612) Flxible Metros they had, they did pick up a handful from Santa Clara County (870's) but allof those have been withdrawn from service; some have been spotted in Tijuana.
The thirteen Gilligs (4701-4713) were held onto for awhile, as they were supposedly the only buses that could run the route to Boulder City without overheating on hot summer days!!! I haven't seen any of these lately, either.
I don't know what the details of the service is, but went throguh Laughlin, Nevada a couple weeks ago. CAT bus stop signs everywhere (routes 701 and 702) -- and parked in a lot at the north end of town was one of their 400-series NFI D40's. I also went through Searchlight (about the only town on the roads between Laughlin and Henderson) and did NOT see any bus stop signs, so I don't kow if there is a connecting service or what. Maybe CAT just runs a couple locals around Laughlin and switches the buses out now and then. It's a hell of a long, boring drive form Vegas to Laughlin. Looks like the moon out there, even weeds don't grow along most of that way!
Here's what I can help with:
101-107 were the former LVT RTS's -- GMC 4521-4525 and TMD 4301-4302)
201-212 were the former LVT Metro's -- 4601-4612
301-313 were the former LVT Gilligs
(All the above stuff actually bought/owned by City of LV, County of Clark RTC)
401-490 were CAT's first new buses - New Flyer D40HF's
501-504 were former LVT 6101-6104 -- New Flyer D60HF's
505-524 are CAT-bought D60HF's
525-564 (I think) are NABI 436 artics
601-640 (I think) are New Flyer D40LF's
1100's are cookie wagons used for paratransit
Not sure if they even have NABI 40LFW's....stuff up there's all starting to look so much alike, and the traffic's ridiculous and my wife refuses to drive when we're there, so I gotta watch the road, not the buses....
I've seen pictures of CAT's NABI low floors, so they do exist.
As a follow-up...
New Flyers are as follows:
401-490 - 1992 D40HF
501-504 - 1991 D60HF (ex-LVT 6101-6104)
510-517 - 1995 D60HF
520-525 - 1996 D60HF
601-604 - 1994 D40LF
610-631 - 1995 D40LF
640-657 - 1996 D40LF
NABIs are numbered as follows:
530-564 - 1997 436.08VA (Artic)
565-575 - 1998 436.08WA (Artic)
701-760 - 1999 040.06XA (40LFW)
All those NABI's with Cummins engines? What about San Antonio's NABIs?
Ray
Thanks for posting the correct numbers -- I was just guessing off the top of my head.
Now that you show the 700's, I certainly DO remember seeing the NABI low-floors. What was I thinking? I was trying to remember seeing buses with the hump in the rear like the ones where I drive (Orange County TA). The hump is back there where the LNG tanks are above the engine.
thank u. i rememer the Gilligs, the Flyers and the low floor as well as the atriculated(as well as the flexible Metro) when i was there in June of 1996. thanks again
Sure, glad to help out -- and thanks to CTRABS74 for getting the fleet numbers straightened out. (I was just guessing.)
Do yo remember all the LVT junk that was there before CAT? they had T8H5306A's that were worn out but very fast even with full-packed loads -- also a bunch of 35-foot fishbowls of various models. And the real oddball bunch were some two-door MCI MC-5C's that came back from Saudi Arabia!! (The extra panelling on the roof to deflect heat sure came in handy in Las Vegas in the summer!)
They also bought some T6H4523A's from Tucson in the last year or so before CAT took everything over.
Here`s a quiz to test your knowledge of SEPTA Bus history. Part 1 is the route number-letter quiz. I give you the current route number, you try to give me the original Letter that named the route. So here goes:
9-
14-
18-
19-
21-
24-
27-
28-
32-
65-
68-
70-
I`ll give you the answer later tonight.
The 9, 27, and 32 were all variations of the A bus from Center City to Roxborough.
14 = B
21 = D
65 = E
I'd have to check my notes on the others...
21 = D
27 = R
65 = E
I think the 14 descends from the old B
You got one wrong: the 27 was part of the old route A bus.
Actually you were partially right. A part of the R bus was incorporated into the 27.
Some these I'm sure of, others I'm not:
18 = W
19 = T
24 = N
28 = XA(?)
68 = Possibly part of U, other parts of U route now 108
70 = Y
I stand corrected on the 19. It was actually the W, not the T. The present 18 was formerly known as the S. Those two redesignations, as well as the re-designation of the B into the 14, took place in the summer of 1985. The D (21) and E (65) were renumbered a couple years later.
Here are the answers to the SEPTA QUIZ/Number-Letter questions:
9,27,32--The 9 was the "A-(local or express)via Upper Ridge Ave"
The 27 was the "A-(local or express)via Upper Henry Ave"
with a portion of the R bus included. That portion was the
part on Manayunk Ave between Ridge and Wissahickon and Ridge
and Green Lane.
The 32 was the portion of the A bus running through North
Philadelphia, between Ridge and Lyceum and Center City.
14-This was the B bus on Roosevelt Blvd through NE Philly
19-This was the Algon Ave-Krewstown Rd branch of the W bus (the Veree Rd portion is the 67)
21-This was the D bus-Chestnut and Walnut st
24-Formerly the N bus from Frankford to Rockledge
28-This route incorporated the XA from Fern Rock to Huntingdon Valley,
as well as part of the main branch of the T bus (the rest of the T bus is now parts of rts 20, 84, and 88)
65-Formerly the E-69 st to Germantown via City Line Ave
68-After all the fooling around SEPTA and the City did to this route,
The original designator was the M bus (the U was merged virtually intact with the 108 bus)
70-This was the Y bus on Cottman Ave.
Oh, by the way, the 18 was the S bus.
Today had the opportunity to ride 4873 and 4887 on the M6.
Two things.
4873 had the blue suburban seats like 1981,1982,1985 Suburbans, while 4887 and 4882 (which I rode years ago on the X1) have the plush gray seats like the current Novas, Orions, and MCIs. Why did the TA make some of the buses blue leather seats and others plush gray?
4887's plush seats were shot - not from vandals, but worn out. The headrests were totally collapsed and had no form on them - seems like they were crushed. I guess normal wear. For these buses and others, like the Orions and Novas now and maybe the MCIs, the seats should be the blue plastic cushion because they keep the form. In the future, NYCT may have to constantly reupholster the seats.
4873 and 4887 ran VERY WELL - exactly like 8219 on the M50 today. Granted no more express service for these, but local would be better.
All 4600s-4800s should be repowered or remanufactured to the 7800-7999 series where they would flow into 8000-8703 (All TMCs) since DOB will not order any locals anytime soon.
That is a great idea EXCEPT FOR ONE MAJOR ISSUE.
The Orion 07.501 CNG Order (Though delayed until 2003, still coming [BAH!]) is #7560-7809. So using the #78xx Series is probably a no go if they decided (which I highly doubt because the DOB doesn't do anything practical). If anything they'd play with the earlier concept of the remain program and use the #71xx, #72xx, #73xx and #74xx series numbers so that the Remanufactured numbers could run #7000 all the way to #7559.
Another problem we run into with this numbering scheme is that the #70xx remans have a year or less to live according to a reliable source. I don't know about hte #75xx Series though, they #75xx seems to be better rehabbed than the #70xx. Now based on the recent issues with new bus purchases, the #70xx Series may have been spared its death sentence in a year and may have been extended even to two years. Only time will tell!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
4873 and 4874 were done at yukon depot. a while later nyct decided to convert the seats on 4875-4888. this job was done at eny central maint. thus the difference in seats.
[4873 had the blue suburban seats like 1981,1982,1985 Suburbans]
Did any of the 1981 RTS's have suburban seats? I am pretty sure all the 1981's came in with transit seating, but I don't know whether any of them were subsequently retrofitted with suburban seating.
NYCT(A)'s 1981 GMC RTS II-04 buses 1298-1317 came with upholstered "suburban" seats and were used in express service.
David
Thanks David.
Were 1298-1317 the buses that also saw service at JFK Airport when the TA operated the buses from the Howard Beach subway station to the terminals (before the PA Long Term Parking Bus started going there), or was that service provided by other buses from the 1981 RTS TA series? I have a vague recollection that the Howard Beach service was originally provided by fishbowls in the 8800-8900 series, but that RTS's in the 1201+ series eventually took over.
I think that 1298-1317 did operate on the JFK run. I remember seeing a low 1300 with a flashing yellow light mounted on the front end of the roof, the type of lights used on many airport vehicles.
JFK Express service was operated out of ENY depot. Buses 1318-1327 were retrofitted with luggage racks at the two wheelchair seat positions and were used for this service.
Mark
Where did the wheelchairs go?
Also the good thing about those 1981 express buses were that they and a few others (local buses) had the DD 6V-92TA engine instead of the DD 6V-71N engine. They were TA 1288-1297 and OA 2281-2300.
Wayne
I saw this sign on 4881 as I was riding it yesterday:
In an emergency,
notify the driver.
This bus is equipped
with a Two-Way Radio.
I guess that sign's been there a long time. I still see buses on the Q60 still showing ads for the 1985-6 college basketball season at Madison Square Garden!
I remember Big Al saying that no more Suburbans were on the Q17. Well, I happened to ride on 9256 on the Q17 tonight and this bus was a piece of garbage. The whole bus shook when the medal was put to the pedal. It was making nonstop hissing noises and once I got off this bus, I had a bad migrane headache. This was the worst Suburban that I've ever rode on. I had 1767 a week or 2 ago and that rode much better than this. I thought that the 9200 Suburbans were a real treat. It sure wasn't today. But I did get a pic of it. I did see 9280 going to Jamaica.
#9256 Q17
Yes, I can say for a fact that 9256 is the worst Suburban that Jamaica has. I've had it a few times also while doing the Q3. I don't know what happened to that bus, but it is rather slow and very rattley. Since my first half only has me doing 1 round trip and there are no other buses in the yard other than the suburbans, and I don't get too many school kids, the yard dispatcher will give me a 9200. I also get 9265, 9279(the best), 9281 & 9285. But 9256 is the only one I didn't like. These are generally the spare suburbans that are not used regularly on the X63 & X64.
As for the Q17. Yes, I said there is not supposed to be anymore coaches on that line because of the overcrowding on them. However, I also said that if there were NO other buses available in the yard to pull out, than a 9200 would be assigned as a last resort. That is probably what happened when you had the displeasure of catching 9256.
BIG AL
Add 8381 8390 8391 and 8396 to the repowered list. Saw 3/4 of these on the Q46 today.
#8391 Q46 (hint-hint)
Add #8360 to the list of garbage buses at Queens Village.
I recently found an old RTS from Rochester,NY. in Pittsburgh,PA..It is numbered 906 and believe a private owner bought it.In other bus news PAT here in Pittsburgh has ordered 60 new Gillig Phantoms to replace our remaining 1983 Neoplans.So far our Neoplan AN460's are great just like our 2001 Metroliners are.
This past Sunday evening, at 5:58 pm, while driving southbound across the Whitestone Bridge, I spotted Nova Bus 9538 from the Jamaica Depot operating on the Q44, and yes it was in revenue service with passengers aboard and signed Q44 on the front, back and side.
Are Casey Stengel and Jamaica swapping buses? Are the Q44s split between the two depots? Anyone with information please respond.
Thank you.
Novas on the Q44 have been pretty often-however they're used only to make 1 trip usually. Since Stengel is short of buses and the Q44 terminal in Jamaica is very close to Jamaica Depot, they either take a bus off from the Q17 to place into service on the Q44 or from the depot. This has also happened on the Q28 and Q76.
#8939 Q44
#5150 Q76
#4590 Q28
Back around 1995 or so, the Q44 use to be split between Jamaica and Casey Stengel. All Jamaica Q44's went to either Parsons Blvd or the Bronx Zoo. All the Casey Stengel Q44's went to Flushing (Main/Roosevelt) and Bronx Zoo and also did the Bowne High School Trippers.
Ray
Probably just a defective Orion in jamaica, dispatcher at Merrick and Archer gave the Stengel B/O the spare JAM bus they keep there usually or grabbed a run-off to JAM.
Happens a few times a week.
It's ocurred on the 76 as well. They will replace with the spare at 165 terminal (if there's one usually there i don't know).
A bus is a bus. They are just making service (score). It is not that Casey is short buses (though that happens) in this instance.
Password check
Bus number 2816, 1695.2 miles, 11-20-2001, not in service yet.
These are driven, not trucked, from one of the Dakotas, I forget which
...5a.jpg is the best shot
available by e-mail request as well
http://bingweb.binghamton.edu/~bg22985/mci.jpg
http://bingweb.binghamton.edu/~bg22985/mci3.jpg
http://bingweb.binghamton.edu/~bg22985/mci4.jpg
http://bingweb.binghamton.edu/~bg22985/mci4a.jpg
http://bingweb.binghamton.edu/~bg22985/mci5.jpg
http://bingweb.binghamton.edu/~bg22985/mci5a.jpg
http://bingweb.binghamton.edu/~bg22985/mci6.jpg
http://bingweb.binghamton.edu/~bg22985/mci7.jpg
http://bingweb.binghamton.edu/~bg22985/mci7a.jpg
http://bingweb.binghamton.edu/~bg22985/mci8.jpg
http://bingweb.binghamton.edu/~bg22985/train1.jpg
Great PHOTOS!
BTW you got a photo of inside the NEW D4500's that MTA got last month?
nic picture-though does not look any different than what is running
sorry about that
For those Bustalkers In citys with New (1990 >) Light Rail lines.
Where light rail lines run on street trackage or on Paraell ROW's with streets has bus service on those streets stayed the same or has bus service been reduced or elimated?
Phoenix Is thinking of reducing the bus service on a number of streets along the light rail route. (19th Avenue,Camelback Road,Central Avenue & Washington Street) Stops for buses are placed every 2 blocks Or Every 1/4 Mile, Light rail stops will be placed at every mile Cross Street (Except Downtown Every 3 blocks).
That sounds like poor planning to me. It is not appropriate for light rail lines to replace local-stop bus routes on major streets. Remember, many newer rail lines which do only stop every mile or so (Trax, MAX, San Diego Trolley, Blue Line, etc) operate primarily off-street, so there would be no need to stop anywhere other than major cross streets. However, if "modern" light rail (as opposed to local-stop streetcar light rail) is to operate right on the street as a limited-stop service, there must be local-stop service on the very same street. Of course, ridership on these routes will change drastically (not necessarily a decrease) but it is essential to have local services.
For Phoenix, I would suggest operting the LRT line up Central Avenue and stopping every mile or so. Split the Red Line into two remote routes; the north part feeding the LRT where it crosses it. Same thing for the Blue Line from the east side at Camelback. Then, revise Route 0 to parallel the LRT line. It should operate about every 20 minutes when the LRT is operating and every 15-20 minutes when the LRT is not operating.
For Camelback, the proposed LRT route really does not run there long enough to warrant chopping the 50 into separate routes.
I think the most interesting situation will be on 19th Avenue, where there is a heavy bus line that currently makes frequent stops. South of Camelback, I cannot imagine that the bus service will change that much, but north of Camelback, we'll see...
All of The Phoenix Street Railway System Except The Future I-17 Line ((From 19th Avenue)Metro Center To Deer Valley) All Will Be Center Of Street Trackage.
Both The Red Line (Metrocenter - Mesa) And Blue Line (Paradise Valley Mall - Southern Avenue) will be replaced by the Light Rail Lines, The City Council to save money wants to gradually reduce the Freq. the elimate these rutes as the Light Rail Lines are Built
Sounds like Phoenix is approaching this all wrong. The light rail line should increase public transit usage, which would generally call for an increase in bus service, especially feeder routes to light rail. With light rail stops not too close together, duplicative bus service along busy thoroughfares should be well patronized with light rail passengers who can't walk very far. If Phoenix is planning to drastically reduce bus service when light rail starts, it will probably mean the light rail will not be as successful as it could be.
My own suggestion is to turn the transit planning in the area over to the transit folks in Tempe. Tempe has been years ahead of Phoenix in trying to encourage folks to use mass transit, and had provided service to allow them to do so.
The Numbered Routes Will Still Operate (0,19,40,50) But The Colored EZ Lines Red & Blue ad the Eastern Yellow Lines Would Be Elimated as the Light Rail Lines are Completed.
Does anyone know where I can get a bus map depicting the QM-1 and similar express bus routes. They aren't on the standard Queens bus maps and token booth personel don't know anything about those routes.
Queens Surface only provides bus stop locations. From that, one could "connect the dots."
Express buses from Queens usually enter Manhattan via the Midtown Tunnel, and leave via the Queensboro Bridge.
This shows a list of non-QSC routes (local, limited, and express) and has maps for them.
http://www.triborocoach.com/menubot/index.html.
Don't be decieved by the name. It's more than the Triboro Coach routes.
Liberty Lines can be reached at http://www.libertylines.com/
IS there a private made map?
Or a map that was included with the contracts for the lines?
Also why doesn't the MTA make a express map? Do they deny its excistance?
there was once a express bs map that listed EVERY EXPRESS BUS ROUTE in new york City-including Command,Triboro,Green,MTANYCBus,Queens,Jamaica,Liberty and NYBS. I will look to see if i have and will sell it if i do.
What year?
There is one dated January 1995.
Not good enough. I need a current compleate map showing all the express bus routes.
NYCDOT produced an Express Bus Map back in '95. It included all of the private carriers' expresses (with the Q10A, Q53, and B103), plus Transit's expresses and Command's special event routes.
What made it really interesting was the reference to the private carriers as "NYCDOT Triboro Coach," "NYCDOT Liberty Lines,", and so forth, in the grand tradition of MTA New York City Transit.
A few bus fan friends and I ventured out to New Brunswick, NJ, today to sample the fairly new Academy operation of the Rutgers University Campus Bus Service. While paractically all the vehicles we saw were either state or Academy owned RTS's in the 1000 series or ex-Seattle MAN artics (renumbered 2000-2012 or so, but former #2000+ Seattle buses), we did catch Academy bus #80 in Academy's paint scheme. This is a former NYCTA 1982 RTS with suburban/express blue seating, and was part of the batch Academy bought when it first took over the former Red Apple Hoboken to PABT route. Was quite a surprise seeing it there. All other buses were in the new Rutgers paint scheme, which is very nice, except for bus #1058, which was all white. The Academy owned 1000's have very colorful high-back seats. The ex-Seattle MANS appear to be in very nice condition for their age. Overall, we thought the Academy operation was more punctual than the former HAML operation, although our visit was really too short to be definitive.
Currently Academy Express has the following GMC RTS's:24,51, 54, 79 and 80. 24, 79 and 80 are used at Rutgers as extras, since they are shorted a couple buses, that is the only reason why they are still in Academy scheme. Those I can asure you won't be around for too long, they are only temporary since Rutgers really is interested in a completely new bus fleet.
On another note Academy changed their NJT units 1026-1035 seats to their own seats. 1057 and 1058 are the brand new ones. As a matter of fact 1058 got hit in the yard last week, by another bus, and it had to get fixed immediately. The owner who saw the bus was very upset when he saw it. 1058 is in service for about a week.
Jason
AFA the Seattle buses, the weather conditions were obviously a factor, as winters aren't as harsh out there as they are in Jersey.
BTW, the 12 D40LFs Academy purchased should be arriving there within the next few weeks.
Does anyone have any more pictures or former seattle metro fleet #s of the MAN artics. Will the D40LFs be replacing them or?
I took a few pictures of the MAN's yesterday, but didn't use up the entire roll of film. Thus, it will be a while before they are developed. The former Seattle Metro fleet numbers can be made out slightly at the rear/interior of the buses or on the exterior roof (easy to see from the NJ Transit New Brunswick train station). I believe two of the MAN's I was on yesterday were former Seattle Metro #21xx. I'll try to get the exact numbers if I can. By the way, the new (i.e., Academy) paint scheme on the Rutgers buses does look very nice, including on the MAN's.
I would guess that the new artics are intended to replace the MAN's, but don't know for sure.
It's not an ex-Seattle, but I have a few pictures of Rutgers MAN #30182 at Scraparano's in May
www.geocities.com/ripta9899/nimco
Does anybody know exactly how to get to Nimco Scrapyard, I wanna go check out what over there, and I need some directions, can sombody, help me or give me an address.
Thanks T
Yeah its easy, Follow the NJT #1 bus route! That's it!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Thanks Trevor,
T
They're located at 254 Doremus Avenue in Newark; driving directions are given on their website. As of last weekend, there were a lot of old Arrow MCIs, SEPTA 1984 Neoplans, a couple Volvo artics, and NYCT RTS-04s. Bring Kleenex...
LOL.......Thanks I will.
Tone
What a sad, sad sight. It's terrible to see all those nice buses go to pot. One of the Grummans must have been recently retired; it still had "SHAFT" movie ads on one side. What a shame. The NYCT RTS on top of the 6619 looked REALLY torn up with no return though.
-F.
Wow...how neat; a former NYC RTS gets new life at Rutgers. They also had some ex-GLTC 1975 Flxible New Looks from Lynchburg, VA, which is not far from where I am. These were replaced in Lynnchburg by Gilligs, which seems to be the trend at most Virginia TAs. Meanwhile, older RTSes are replaced by New Flyer LFs here.
-F.
Sid... did you get any photos?
Thanks
Dave
This bus is alive and well here in Philly. It's being used to shuttle passengers from the Park Towne Place Apartments to City Hall.
I remember getting on her a lot on the Q66 a few years back.
Glad she's still alive and well. A few others are doing well too 247 256 257 are a few that come to mind.
#231 Q66 (Flashback)
I remember it well on the Q66 and QBx1. During those days I'd often pass it up in favor of QSC's Grumman Flxible 870's, but it was a good bus.
Wayne
I remember getting all of the 1985 and 1986 GMC RTS when they were at QSC (24-54, 205-258, 270-274). I also remember getting 193-204, the 1979 GMC-RTS with padded seats. In 1997-1998, I only got a few of the Slopeback RTS from Bee-Line: 179-184, 187, 189-190, 192.
Anybody have any pics of 177-192 when they were at QSC? Email me if you do. Thanks.
#270 Q34
#198 Q104
#180 Q66
Does anyone remember the 2 RTS 03 series (slopeback) that were originally delivered to Queens/Steinway Transit. They were nos. 1 & 2 and they did stay around very long.
Wayne
Actually 257 is being stripped and used for parts at L&G for other buses they have in service, at Laffayette & Greenville. So are 256 and 241. However we stil have a handle in active service for L&G. on their runs in Jersey City.
T.
Here`s another quiz. This time its about the Red Arrow Division. Many of the lettered routes went the way of disco in the late 70's to early 80's. Also here are some of the numbered routes that went from 2 digits to 3 digits in the 80`s. So here are the original designators. Tell me what they are known as today. I'll give the answers tommorrow.
A-
C-
M-
O-
W-
Z-
70-
72-
74-
76-
77-
80-
83-
A - 110
C - no idea
M - no idea
O - 109 (?)
W - 104
Z - 105
70 - (?)
72 - (?)
74 - (?)
76 - Either 113 or 114
77 - 116
80 - 118
83 - (?)
Note that some of the 70-80 series routes were once part of PTC.
So, when exactly were these route numbers (and letters) changed into the designations we are familiar with today?
Here's the answer to my Red Arrow quiz:
A-this is now the 111, This route was extended in the 80's to Springfield Mall.
C-This route was the original designator for the bus route that replaced the Ardmore Trolley. In the 70's SEPTA changed it to the 103.
M-Originally the 69 st to Darby Term. In the early 80's this designator was changed to the 113. In the mid 80's this route was merged with the 76 to form the 69 ST to Marcus Hook line- Rt 113.
O- now the 109
W- now the 104
Z- this route was Changed to the 71 in the 70`s then merged with the 105 in the 80's
70-around 1990- this changed to the 117. A couple of years later this route was split up, creating the 117 and the 119
72-In the 80's this route was merged with the 83 to form the 115
74-Changed to the 114
76-See Rt. M
80-When this route was extended to King of Prussia, the designator was changed to the 118
83-See the 72. The 72 ran from Darby to Delmar Village. The 83 ran from Darby to Ardmore via Lansdowne Ave and Darby Rd.
Hi guys, Ray here! You know, I had a dream last night (no it was not about women.....although it would have been nice...Lol!) Anyway, I was in Nassau County in Hempstead and I saw something that the MTA NYCT would not get. It was a NABI!!!!! A NABI 40 Ft LW CNG bus with Cummins engines. Just like what LA has BUT with Cummins Engines!!! Can anyone see the MTA LI Bus? I know MTA NYCT won't see them. They could replace the Orion V Diesels (Buses 579-656). Also, I picture LI Bus with NFI D60HF buses. I do not like the NFI D60LF buses. They are ugly! Anyway, I could the artics on these routes:
N4 - but I do not know how long the bus stop at Parsons/Archer would be for an artic. Plus, I was the one who said that the Q5 should get an artic BUT lets not go throught that again!
N6 - but then I remembered that NO artics can go into the Jamaica Bus Terminal nor Hempstead Bus Terminal for that matter.
N20 - a nice route up and down Northern Blvd from Hicksville to Flushing. It shold be good for Flushing, after all the Q12 may get theirs soon.
Anybody got anymore routes for these artics? I think the N19 but I could be wrong about that too.
This was just a thought. This is in two parts. I'll talk about the NYCDOT Buses tomorrow.
Ray
IIRC, I saw an artic in Nassau County as an experiment in the mid 80's. I think it was on Hempstead Turnpike in the Levittown area. Guess they didn't perform well enough to be ordered.
Perhaps Joe Saitta, if you're reading this, could shed some light on this. If only to assure me that my half-century brain isn't playing tricks on me.
MSBA had two artics for a short while. I recollect they may have been bought by MSBA rather than demos. I'm pretty sure they were from Hungary, so they probably were Ikurus's. I remember one being numbered 1400 or 1500 or 1401 or 1501. I took a picture of one, but it's probably in my attic somewhere. I don't think MSBA liked them very much, so they didn't stay around very long.
You're probably thinking of buses 1300 and 1301, those were nice because they featured push-button gear selectors. They were, in fact owned by MSBA, however they were used for a very short period of time. Alot of drivers resented them because they weren't American-made.
MSBA had 2 articulated buses in the early 1980's. They were built in Romania. These units saw service on many of the Nassau routes during their short careers. They spent an excessive amount of down time waiting for parts because of the time needed for the parts to clear customs during the cold war.
What engine does LACMTA's NABI LFWs have? Detroit Diesel esries 50 or other?
Cleanairbus
Has eayone seen the new car that the TA are now using. I was behind one today, It was a Toyota Hybread. So I guess the TA like them as buses and are now using them as cars.
Robert
Ah, yes, my favorite car right now, the Toyota Prius hybrid-electric, a combo of gasoline and electric power. One of these days, when I can drive and afford a car, that baby will be mine! A cute little 4-door car, just right for me, for my size. I am tall, but I am quite small, too small for an SUV, slightly smaller than a person who would drive a regular car, but too big to drive a regular compact car. The Prius is right for me!
Cleanairbus
Yeah, the Priuses are nice, although if I had to choose a hybrid, I'd go with the Honda Insight . . . nice-looking little two-seater, and at a Honda-subsidized $19,000 base, dirt cheap. Not that I could fit my 6' 2" ass in it, but still . . .
C
Yeah...but I like 4-doors, so the Insight wouldn't really be for me...Prius all the way!
Cleanairbus
I agree; I would go with the Honda...those are really neat cars and round out the regular gas-powered lineup nicely. The Prius is just a little funky for my taste, as is the Echo. Toyota styling has really gone down the toilet across the board.
Remember the 80s, when they actually made NICE-looking cars? :)
-F.
LOL Fred; I agree, the '88-'92 Camry was classic . . . the '94-'98 Celica wasn't bad either! Not that every one was a home run: remember the jellybean-shaped Previa minivan? Yuck.
C
Actually, those years would be '87-'91 for the Camry and '94-'99 for the Celica, and yes, they were nice-looking cars (I have diecasts of the latter; should you be interested, e-mail me.).
I totally agree on the Previa; it looked like something I ate and dropped! The one I REALLY liked was the angular RTS-looking van they made in the 80s. Ironically, at point, Nissan, Mitsubishi, and every other Japanese maker styled theirs the same way...proving that Toyota's styling team of the 1980s were trend-setters!
What I liked most about that design was that it was a minivan that was styled like a bus, a la the VW Microbus (which kinda resembles a GM Old Look) and Vanagon (more like an ADB) of yore. Those ugly Eurovans just threw the concept down the toilet completely. It's not a Volkswagen BUS aymore...it's a blocky piece of CRAP!
Vans that look like transit buses are among my favorite designs and are the most practical...why they were ever discontinued is beyond me. Same thing with hatchback sedans (i.e. the Dodge Shadow, the original Ford Escort, or Dodge Lancer); they were neat-looking and had more cargo room than anything that replaced it.
-F.
Yeah, those angular '80s vans were nice-looking! As you noted, nearly identical designs were produced by several Japanese manufacturers, yet none were given a model name so far as I can tell! Those were good little vehicles, though -- basically home-market Japanese microvans that were exported. But they were doomed . . . the little mid-engined boxes couldn't compete with Chrysler's Caravans and Voyagers so most of the aforementioned manufactuers dropped out of the market or Americanized their vehicles (Previa, Quest, etc.).
I agree with you, Vanagons are great, particularly the four-wheel-drive models. I don't think the Eurovan is all that bad, particularly now that it's got a zippy VR6 engine for its US reintroduction, but I agree that it doesn't have the utility of the original. It's gonna get worse before it gets better, though . . . VW's been toying with the idea of producing a "New Microbus" with "retro" (read: trendy, gratuitous, and unfunctional) styling. May the original Bus rest in peace . . .
Hatchbacks are functional and efficient but never as popular in the US as in Europe, unfortunately. I guess there's a certain social cachet to owning a car with a trunk, which is why so many manufacturers try to graft a fake trunk lip onto their hatchbacks (a la the '91-'96 Escort).
Chris
I hear ya. I've seen the VW Microbus concept..and it is butt UGLY! They should make it more retro-styled like the New Beetle (i.e. ROUND headlights, etc.) or just drop the idea altogether. Yeah, hatchbacks are practical; unfortunately, much like buses, in modern America they are more associated with lower-class people that have no money. On the other hand, where are all these street-racer kids getting all the money to soup up their Honda Civics? Who knows..it's bizarre.
As for the diecast Celica, check it out on eBay...I may post a WMATA Flx there as well.
-F.
I'm a four-door car person, but more importantly I'm a very much a loyal Honda owner ('92 Accord w/185,000 miles, and 3 week old '02 Accord EX-V6) so I'd go with the Insight. Honda plans to offer a Hybrid Civic one day.
I never did keep up with the Prius' trannys, but I'd like to drive both the 5-speed manual Insight as well as the CVT version.
Wayne
Property Protection at Jamaica yard(that's subway Jamaica yard) has had one for about a month, replacing a chevy lumina.
I rode in Mother Hale's new hybrid vehicle. It accelerates and handles just like a gas powered car. It has a very nice monitor which shows schematically what the engine is doing powerwise. Also the car makes no noise and you can't even hear it start. Its a little cramped, smaller inside than my Dodge Neon.
I saw yesterday and today five buses sitting in the yard neer the track. Are they used for the Ferry suvice. Dose anyone know.
Robert
i belive they are. i occasionally see #4912 from Command sitting on 14th avenue during middays and this bus is normally on the shuttle run. by the way, look for command #359 and #360. They have new windows on them.
i have a 1979 subway map for sale. it features the AA,CC and the JFK lines as well as the old QB service. I also have a manhattan bus map from 1991. i am offering these for $1.00 each-anyone interested in them can email me at pingu45@aol.com
This is the second half of my thought!
Now, for the NYCDOT buses, why did QSC, TCC and CBC get Orion V CNG buses with DD50 engines. I think they should have gotten the Cummins L10 engines like what MTA LI Bus has (Buses 131-287). I think that they should gotten those BUT what can you do. Maybve the GBL and JBL can order artics for there routes. Now, I'm not sure if JBL or GBL are good for artics but if they were then these routes should have them:
Q60 - most definitely!!!!
Q110 - that would be good!
Q113 would be good although going through the swamp (Brookville Blvd to Rockaway Tpke) could be a problem, maybe not.
QSC and TCC routes:
Q65 I would but going towards 45th Av, too narrow.
Maybe the Q34?
Q72 would do good.
These are just thoughts however I did not mention NABI's because I do not know if NYCDOT would ever look at a NABI. Oh well! Let me know what you think.
Ray
Are you insane? Those Cummins L10G's that LIB has are noisy, slow, and unreliable. Detroit diesel makes a much better product, and this can be backed up by the opinions of several bus drivers and maintainance people I've spoken to. DOT obvoiusly had brains for choosing the best CNG engine.
Cummins is unreliable, NYCT uses almost entirely Detroit Diesel engines in their buses, which should tell you something. And the L10G isn't made anymore anyway (wonder why?).
The 6v92 and Series 50 are the best damn engines made! Good and reliable, just like the RTS. And the Series 50G is the best CNG engine IMHO.
As some of you may know I left New Jersey Transit for various reasons.
Today I had interview with Rockland Coach/Transit Corp (Red & Tan) and I was hired as a bus driver, HOWEVER when I get home today, Liberty Lines Express calls me and wants to see me next tuesday for the Bus Driver position, If I'm fully hired by Liberty Lines Express. I'm screwed because that'll mean I'm hired by two bus companies.
The question of the day is.....
WHO SHOULD I CHOOSE?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Trevor,
I sent you an e-mail with my personal thoughts, but don't think you'd be going terribly wrong with either company.
I understand as I am currently interviewing for a job.
If you haven't actually accepted yet with Red & Tan, then ask for an extension to think a few personal situations over. See what LL has to offer and if they offer you a job, it's up to you. Choose where you are going to be the happiest - and the best overall compensation & benefits.
If you have, still go and then make a decision. If LL says yes, then make up your mind. If you back out on Red & Tan, then you may not have very good chances of applying there again, although you never know.
I would say go where you think, that you would be the happiest, and see what company has better options to offer, benefits wise, and equipment wise, also you gotta know where it would be better to drive. I am gonna be working for NJT as a driver in Janurary, man I hope I will be ok there. Anyways good luck on your decision, and may you have sucess in your choice.
Regards,
Tone
Trevor, I sent you an e-mail about this. Which ever way you go...good luck!
Ray
Trevor, one plus about working for Rockland will be your immediate familiarity with the equipment. They of course use NJT-owned MCIs as well as the NJT electronic fare registers. Cuts down on your training time, all you need to learn are the routes and zones. It also opens up the possibility of transferring to other Coach USA properties like ShortLine (if you ever get the bug to do longer-distance runs).
The thing you probably want to check the most are benefits and ability to advance. How much seniority do you need at Rockland or Liberty to pick your routes, what benefits do you get when, and how often are you reviewed. A good idea is to find out who the union supervisor is, and pick his/her brain for a while. They can tell you firsthand what the pressures are at each company. One company might be tough on schedules (you MUST be on time at any cost), the other might be hard on customer service (zero tolerance for customer complaints or driver violations like traffic tickets).
Also think about the clientele. What kind of passengers are you hauling? Are you going to be more comfortable loading at the PABT (Tockland), or at the street (Liberty)? How easy is it to contact dispatch for assistance? The union rep would also be a help here in letting you know the incident level in terms of passenger problems and crime.
Keep us posted!
You should first compare the wage and benefits package of each company to see which one is better. Second, you should see which company offers the better opportunity for advancement. Third, you should decide which one is more convenient for you to get to. Believe me after 8-10 hours of driving a bus the last thing you want is a nightmare of a commute to get back home. Last but not least you should decide which one you think you'll be happier working at.
Good luck wherever you decide to work. I'm sure you'll do a fine job.
Amen. I agree with all of this. Whichever way you chosse, you GO, Trevor. Congratulation!
-Fred
Thank you guys for all your input. By Tuesday night, I will have posted what the deal is and who's buses you'll see me flying down the road with, LOL!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Trevor, now that we've talked about it, I think LL is your best choice. Besides, they have your favorite bus there!
-F.
I'll send you an e-mail.
Wayne
Here's the deal...
picture this...
Orion V on the M1, #199 or one of them 1993 Orions...northbound on Madison Av, at around 42nd-48th Sts.
Then, all of a sudden, the rear route sign says "S5", as if there ever was an S5 route, and if there was, it was programmed into the sign boards. How is that? Why for old routes? As if they are bringing it back or something?
Cleanairbus
Easy Answer!
SIGN ERROR... It may very well be a froze-out S5x Route Reading, like S56 or S53.
Next!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Speaking of strange Orion rear route signs, why do the Orions on the S51 route drop the S and only display 51?
yes there was an s5 many years ago. of course that was a computer error.
I was over at the 165th St Bus Terminal in Jamaica, Queens. I noticed that when the front Balios signs on the Green Lines Orion V transit buses says "Not In Service", that's exactly what it says in the rear...those letters have been fit into the rear route sign...I just thought that was so cool...
Why can't any of the other operations do something like that...?
I've seen other signs like that...
On an Academy D4000, I saw a US Flag and an inscription that says "God Bless Amereica". I have a photo of it on my website, http://cleanairbus.tripod.com, just look in the Other NY Metro Area Transit page in the site...
I have seen NYCDOT buses that have "The Big Apple" on them, like a Command Orion V CNG I saw over at Woodhaven Blvd heading for the LI Expwy...
Those new NYBS D4500s have new Balios signs installed recently, correct?
Balios NO!
Those are Luminators on Green Lines and NYBS, check your information!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
So then who was the one that told me they were Balios signs?
And why do these signs have orange LEDs and aren't Balios at all? How come GBL and NYBS have orange Luminators instead of the traditional green?
Answers will be greatly appreciated...
Cleanairbus
I was over at the 165th St Bus Terminal in Jamaica, Queens. I noticed that when the front Balios signs on the Green Lines Orion V transit buses says "Not In Service", that's exactly what it says in the rear...those letters have been fit into the rear route sign...I just thought that was so cool...
Why can't any of the other operations do something like that...?
I've seen other signs like that...
On an Academy D4000, I saw a US Flag and an inscription that says "God Bless Amereica". I have a photo of it on my website, http://cleanairbus.tripod.com, just look in the Other NY Metro Area Transit page in the site...
I have seen NYCDOT buses that have "The Big Apple" on them, like a Command Orion V CNG I saw over at Woodhaven Blvd heading for the LI Expwy...
Those new NYBS D4500s have new Balios signs installed recently, correct? Well, how come they don't have the route numbers like when they were first acquired by NYBS? Did they find route number codes too complex? What's the reason for that...?
Answers will be gladly appreciated..
Cleanairbus
The God Bless America reading on Academy is now three months old. The Big Apple readings have ALWAYS been on the DOT Orions.
NYBS doesn't do the route number thing, so the signs were reprogrammed WITHOUT route numbers. NYBS are not airheads that think numbers are too complex, they just like uniformity! Which I can admire.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
How does a V-type drivetrain work?
Does the driveshaft come out of the transmission at an angle?
The engine is mounted sideways in the rear of the coach. The transmission is shaped in a V. It mounts to the engine straight-on, and the drive shaft comes out at an angle towards the differential. The diff has its U-joint assembly mounted at a matching angle.
Last night, I was on E 23rd St. in Manhattan and saw the windshield of New York Bus Service fishbowl #1401 all smashed up. Does anyone know what happened?
Looks like this one may have had its last ride and may be scrapped.
Sure hope not. Being New York Bus Service has so many other New Looks still in service, I would think they still have a huge supply of service parts. Be a shame to scrap a fishbowl for just a broken windshield.
1401 or 1501? NYBS doesn't have a 1401 in service; the '81 Fishbowls start at 1481.
Oh Noooo. I hope it wasn't damaged badly. Also - NYBS GMDD fishbowls are numbered #1481-1505.
Wayne
Sorry, my mistake. Went by it so fast I thought it was 1401.
Oh - not a problem. Just glad to help a fellow BusTalker.
Wayne
One fishbowl rear ended another. The buses involved were 1481 and 1496. Both were severly damaged and both had to be towed back to the garage.