Here is some of the first online photos of New York Bus Service's MCI D4500 Cruisers (Not great but they get the point across!)
Enjoy!
#1800
#1802
#1805
There is 6 of these beauties (#1800-1805). Look for them to be on the road REAL soon!
Regards,
T. Logan
www.transitalk.com
I noticed the window for the wheel chair lift in the second pic.
Bill "Newkirk"
That's where it is, have to bug my daughter to scan in my photos of it in operation.
Mr t
Still great shots, Trev. How many of these MCI Cruisers are they supposed to get? I also wonder if Liberty Lines will get these too?
Guess the Fishbowl days are numbered. Does anybody know if they're still operating to this day? Better schedule a fan trip before these bad boys are gone for good. These are the last Fishbowls that are operating in Revenue Service in NYC.
#1489 BXM7
There is only 6 of the MCI D4500 Cruisers, they are not replacing anything (yet that is), NYBS are trying these out. However, if I heard correctly, NYBS owns these 6 buses and were purchased with a grant.
The Fishbowls are in constant use everyday.
Regards,
T. Logan
www.transitalk.com
Were the NYBS D4500s purchased directly by NYBS or was this through NYCDOT?
NYCDOT purchased them through an option to NYCT's contract for MCIs.
David
Interesting that NYBS chose the normal MCI front door, and not the "extra glass" door that NJT is using (and that MCI offers as a factory option). You'd think an urban express company would appreciate that extra visibility to the curb,
Nice photos! AND I got a few Questions.
1. What routes these buses would be on?
2. Are they going to pe in NYBS Paint job(The RED,WHITE,AND BLUE Paint)?
Great photos! Tell a novice how to embed pictures into a message please =)
Two step process:
Upload the pic to a webpage, ftp site, etc.
Use the HTML image source command: inside angle brackets (<>) -- img src="http://www.website.com/picture.jpg" -- using whatever web address the picture is located at.
I know that the M20 is now going to West Broadway and Reade,,
and
the M6 is going to Broadway and Reade
Does anyone know the turnaround streets for both routes,,is it Reade St
Thanks
Steve
M1 to 8 st and 4 Av
M2 not affected
M3 not affected
m5 not affected
M8 to Broadway and Reade
M9 to Chatham Square
M15 to Houston St or South Ferry
M20 to West Broadway and Reade
M21 to Varick St
M22 NO SERVICE
M101 not affected
M102 not affected
M103 to Chatham Square
B51 NO SERVICE
are they turning on Reade or Chambers
According to the Transit website and a Manhattan road superintendent...
M1: Scheduled "South Ferry" trips operating as far south as Worth Street. Southbound via Broadway, left on Worth Street; NO LAYOVER due to congestion; immediately begin northbound trip via Worth Street, left on Center Street, Lafayette Street, to layover at 4th Avenue & 8th Street. Northbound riders may stay on bus during layover or switch to any departing M1, M2, M3 bus.
M20: Operating into the north section of Battery Park City. Southbound via Varick Street, into West Broadway, right Chambers Street, left River Terrace, to Warren Street. Northbound via Warren Street, left North End Avenue, right Chambers Street, left Hudson Street.
Thank you ,waht about the M6
Buses are not going into Battery Park City ,,from what i heard
Since Bus Assigning has been a good topic lately, I thought I'd see where everyone stands on the issue with this one...
I know that every system has their own ways of dealing with the dedicated riders vs. optional riders issue, but I was curious to see where peeps here stand on the issue.
I'll pretty much use my own Baltimore system's fleet as a guideline, since it is entirely transit fleet (no MCI Cruisers yet) and should make for an interesting debate... here goes...
*You have an all transit bus fleet that consists of varying ages of coaches, which are replenished roughly every year. All coaches are equipped with conventional transit seats, there are no "soft seat" coaches in the fleet. Like most systems, the newer buses tend to perform slightly better, and are generally cleaner.
*You operate a small degree of Rush-Hour only commuter lines into your city, which cater mostly to park-and-ride auto accessible people who leave their cars to ride your line Downtown. The lines are weak performers financially, burdened with large amounts of deadhead, but do carry people with some political connections, who are able to see that these services are retained.
*Do you carry the philosophy of:
(A) Since the riders of this route are not transit dependent, we should operate the newest coaches on this route to keep them as riders and hopefully attract others?, or
(B) Since the lines are unprofitable, peak only, and limited mileage, we should run the newest coaches on the base blocks of trunk lines where they can perform, and relegate older coaches to these peak hour operations.
Stick the old buses on, save the good buses for heavy routes.
Although in NYC I'd stick some TMC's on those types of routes... slow shitboxes.
The TMC is my bus of choice! Take back those harsh (yet sometimes true) words... Anyway, the TMC's are being repowered, so even though they will have 8xxx numbers, they'll ride and feel like a 93xx series. Ugh.
Here at NYCT, buses are assigned by mileage. There are exceptions, but for the most part, high-mileage runs receive 'better' buses (a 'good' bus vs. a 'not-so-good' bus is usually a new bus vs. an older bus). The exceptions to this unwritten rule is:
a) Any new operator. A new bus operator must 'pay his dues' and suffer with the worst possible bus available, no matter what the mileage. Should he complain, or in any way recognize the fact that he has a 'bad bus', he will receive the bad bus that much longer. Note to any future bus operators- never complain about your bus. Always thank your SLD for the junk you get, with a smile. Anything less will find you 'owning' a particular dog.... for years to come!
b) The Yard SLD doesn't like you. In this case, he will reserve the absolute worst bus available for you at every 'opportunity'. You might hear, "3241 on the back of 24".. which means, walk past 23 tracks of good buses, dig out that bus by backing it up, turning it around, pulling out through the fuel line, and have a super day.
At any rate, a bus is a bus. You'll find whatever bus happens to be available for the yard SLD to assign at a given moment. Buses constantly pull in, pull out, break down, are removed from service or 'Bad Ordered', assigned to mainenance, radio, shop or whatever. He assigns what he has, you take the bus, and have a nice day... then read about it here.
I visited NY over the weekend. I was able to get a relatively current subway map (Revised 9/19) but the latest Bronx bus guide I could get was September 1999. The latest Manhattan Bus guide I could get was
September 2000.
Why doesn't the MTA update the borough bus guides more frequently?
They probably don't bother to reprint them until they run out of the existing stock . . . it's a city agency, after all.
Where on the m4 line do you live? I used to live near pinehurst.
Chris
I live in Washington, DC. Prior to moving, I lived in Seaford, on the Bablyon Branch of the LIRR. I was born in Brooklyn and lived there for 3.5 years before moving out of the city.
M4 is my favorite city bus route.
Michael
Cool! I grew up near the Pinehurst terminus of the M4 line, which is why your handle piqued my interest. I now live in Rhode Island where I'm a college student.
The M4 is a nice route; I think my favorite Metrobus route would have to be the 30-series route -- riding it end-to-end, Southern Ave. to Friendship Heights, is quite an experience.
Chris
Now I understand why you don't understand. M4 in Manhattan, not Washington. Cloisters to Penn Station via Broadway, 110th Street, and 5 th Avenue.
Michael
OK, now i feel stupid. Thanks for enlightening me. There is an M4 bus line in Washington, DC, running from the Tenleytown Metrorail station to the Maryland line . . . hence the confusion.
Chris
Actually, it goes from Sibley Hospital to Pinehurst Circle. They modified the route so it now does a loop at Sibley Hospital, sort of like what the 98 does.
My favorite bus route is the D6 (Stadium Armory to Sibley Hospital)
I like the portion between Union Station and Duke Ellington School where I see the Washington Savoyards present Gilbert and Sullivan productions.
Michael
My favorite DC bus line is the 38B from Ballston to Farragut Square. The ride between Courthouse and Rosslyn is very bumpy and if the driver can get the bus really moving down the big hill on Wilson Blvd and if you sit in the back, you get a little air time! But, from Rosslyn to Georgetown traveling on Key Bridge is a beautiful view of the Potomac and the Washington Monument stands proudly in the background. Very nice at night. I also think the 7A/7F line is pretty cool since it goes on I-395, even on weekends and you can get some good speed there, too. I have to be a little partial to the 1C as it is my namesake. Its just a very long route! Travels from Ballston to Fair Oaks Hospital and is close to a 90 minute trip from end to end. I believe the longest route from end to end is the 9A when it runs from Pentagon to the Lorton VRE station and takes close to two hours one way.
At WMATA the Z buses are very high on my list. Narrowing it down the Z11 and the Q2 are probably my favorites. I haven really ridden the VA routes.
Wayne
I don't like the Q2. I was going to take it from Shady Grove to Forest Glen and got tired and got off at Connecticut Avenue. I like the Es and the Ls the most, probably.
I like speed which is why I like the Z's and Q2 so much. Often the Q2 gets bogged doen in the traffic along Veirs Mill, but when it's clear they move along at some good speeds.
Wayne
If I want to take a ride on a WMATA route that is scenic and want to enjoy the bus ride, which is best to take?
Also, which routes are more likely to have Flxibles on them? I see them all over DC but just want to make sure.
-F.
Personally, I think the 38B is very scenic, especially crossing over the Key Bridge and then you get a nice ride through Georgetown. From Ballston to Farragut Square, the ride is under an hour, depending on how much traffic is in Georgetown at the time. They only use Orion VI's though, since they are the only buses hooked up to the NextBus technology. The 30 line that runs to Friendship Heights is nice if you pick it up near the museums on Independence Ave. and head towards Friendhip Heights. They run very often and you can catch the Capitol, Washington Monument, White House, etc.
Finding regular Flxible routes is getting harder and harder. There are a ton around, but on a regular basis, its hard. Maybe the 80 in DC or the D6. In VA, that's getting harder because I've noticed Arlington Division buses being used on a lot of the routes. (This is normally a weekday only garage), but they are using the newer Orion V's a lot, maybe to balance out the mileages. I would try one of the Pentagon routes, though. Right now, they are all stationed at Pentagon City, but I bet the 16 line which runs up and down Columbia Pike or the 10A which runs to Old Town Alexandria might be a good choice.
In MD, I've noticed the C8 from White Flint to College Park using them, as well as the S2, 4 from Silver Spring to Federal Triangle.
That sucks. I really hope WMATA uses their Flxibles more often as that is one of their best buses in their fleet. However, it's good to see that they are using NextBus technology...if only they would apply it to the whole fleet. I'm sure a retrofit could be done somehow.
Thank you for the route suggestions; I will try to remember them when I go to DC. It's good to know people who know the routes!
-F.
T2 is a good bet. It often has the oldest buses and its fast. I like that run, too. I think 42 also has a fair amount. The Ns might be a good bet rush hours and middays. Don't do the Q2, C8 (I see more Orions than Flxibles), Js, or 30s.
Hmm....older buses and fast. I like the sound of that. OK, gotta remember....T2......T2....Terminator 2....Arnold. I'll be back.
-F.
Every afternoon, I see only Flxibles on the 3:30 out of Friendship Heights (run number MT10). I also see run MT12, I think it leaves Friendship at 3:52. Remember, since Ride-On operates the T2 on weekends, you must ride on a weekday unless you like the Orion Vs from Ride-On. They aren't bad, actually. I've made the trip from Rockville to my house twice, once with an RTS and once with a Ride-On Orion V.
If you care to, consider a stopover in Baltimore as well. Still well over 500 Flxibles on the roster, from 1985 models to some of the last built in 1995.
Several different engines - 6V92, Cummins L10 and M11's, Detroit Series 60, and the 9200's with the way cool 6-71 (Old Look engines).
Daypasses are only $3 and are good systemwide!
OOOOOOOHHH....SMORGASBOARD! I've GOTTA go up there soon! Somehow I get the feeling the 9200s will fast become my favorites as they have the engines I grew up with in our 79 Grummans at Valley Metro (and the Metro Bs I used to drive at Blacksburg Transit). It's nice to know the 80s Flxibles are also still in service. Hopefully they won't go away anytime soon!
-F.
BTW, it's ironic you mentioned the 9200s as I just finished a model of one for an eBay bidder...it's sitting on top of my monitior as I write this. :) I also have another one on there at the moment.
Just for your info - here's an encapsulated rundown of the fleet:
1985 8500s - 6V92 w/Allison: appx. 20 remaining, mostly trippered
1986 8600s - Same as 8500s: appx 55 remaining, mostly trippered
1987 7000s - Same as 8600's w/Spring throttle instead of air and Large Transigns, 55 active, various assigns.
1987 8700s - Same as 7000's: 29 remaining, most trippered
1987 8730s - CUMMINS L-10, Voith Trans., 9 remaining, mixed assignments
1987 8740s - Same as 8700s but 30 Footers, 17 remaining, shuttle assignments
1988 8800s - Same as 8700s, Luminator 2 pc signs, 79 remain, mixed assigns.
1989 8900s - Same as 8800s, 80 in Service, mixed assigns.
1990 9000s - Same as 8900s, but stricter emissions on the 6V92, tendency to overheat. base blocks.
1992 9200s - 6-71 engines, and Allsion Trans., mixed assigns depending on base.
1994 9400s - Cummins M11 engines, ZF High Speed Trans - 25 buses, base blocks.
1994 9426s - Cummins M11 engines, Voith Trans, 5 buses, base blocks.
1994 9431s - Detroit Series 60 engines, ZF High Speed Trans. 5 buses, Base blocks
1995 9521s - Detroit Series 60 with Allison Trans, 19 buses, base blocks.
for more, check out my site, Baltimore Transit Archives for pictures and breakdowns.
Thanks!
Did anybody make it to the bus rodeo in Philadelphia on Saturday. I made it to the Navy Yard, but missed the rodeo. However, I was able to see some of the equipment that was on hand. Among those were a new look fishbowl and flexible in PTC colors, 35 foot RTS-02, Neoplan AN440, old and new Accordian buses, NABI bus, NJTransit's NovaBus (1000 series) and MCI D4000s.
I went down, it was really nice. There were Historical equipment from SEPTA along with some newbies. NJT, DART and WMATA had equipment down there for viewing.
It was nice to see. (Yes I took many pics)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The displays at the Navy Yard were okay, but it's stuff I've seen before. It wasn't nearly as good as the SEPTA Roadeo; it was more of a disappointment actually, as I was expecting a lot more in the form of demo buses and such. Apparently, that takes place at next year's APTA Conference in Las Vegas.
Anyway, here's a listing of the buses on display on Saturday:
SEPTA:
Neoplan AN-440 #3459
Neoplan Artic #7206
ElDorado #4580
Volvo Artic #7011
Breeze #2055
Historic RTS 35-ft #4462
Historic Flxible #6569
Historic GM Fishbowl #4300 (ex-4185)
NABIs (used in competitions): 5011, 5049, 5052, 5061, 5072, 5137, 5145, 5148, 5291, 5379
(BTW, the historic Flx and Fishbowl were in the silver paint scheme of SEPTA (circa 1970s), not PTC colors, which would have been green and white)
LANTA D35LFs #0134-0135, #0137-0140 (used in the 35-ft competition)
DART Gillig Low Floor #106; 102D3 #906
NJT Nova #1208 & D4000 #7560
WMATA Flxible Metro D #9822 (not as much a display unit, but rather it took WMATA employees to the Roadeo)
Historic GM Old Look painted in Red Arrow colors, but was previously Duke Power Co (N.C.)
Actually that was 1994 Flxible METRO-D Suburban #9833. I actually enjoyed, based on the fact I've never seen the SEPTA historical fleet. It was nice seeing NJT, DART, LANTA Metro and WMATA involved!
Here is a link to the photos.....Click Here
Once inside Photo Album, Click on slide to see the full picture.
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Good shots, Trevor! Thanks for posting them. I was especially interested in seeing the Flxible New Look and GMC Old Look in SEPTA historical colors, as well as the slopeback RTS. (Why does every single RTS always have that stupid engine cover half open? Is there a design failure for the latch? The RIPTA fleet here in Providence is mostly RTSes, and those doors are always open. Same thing with WMATA's RTSes in Washington, before they were retired. Is this for cooling or something?)
Chris
Thanks for the info on the WMATA bus #. I didn't have my notes with me and thought it was 9822 instead of 9833. Still, it was great that they sent a Flxible instead of an Orion...
It looks like WMATA is no longer operating this route 28 shuttle around downtown Silver Spring any longer. I've noticed that for the last several weeks I've only seen Ride-On Orion I's and 30' Gilligs on the 28. Well yesterday while driving through NE, DC I saw two of the 30' Flxible Metro B's that WMATA were using on the 28. Numbers 5165 and 5167 are back in the WMATA paint scheme - the new color scheme, of course.
Wayne
Didn't the Metro-Bs get replaced by the new Ride-On CNG trolleys on that route? At any rate, it's good to see them back in Metrobus' service. I wonder if they'll put them back on the E6 line.
Chris
I've only seen the trolley in Bethesda. It is interesting to see the 30' Metro B's in the new color scheme.
Wayne
Those only run on Ride-On Route 92 and are not CNG, since they run out of Lytonnsville.
I was riding #485 the other day on the Q34, and I noticed that the engine was humming the same as the TA Orions. I had no idea that the Private Lines had buses with the same engine as their TA counterparts.
Question: Is this bus unique to the Private Lines or are there others like it? And what are the engine classes between the TA Orions and the regular Private Lines Orions? Thanx.
Most of the TA Orions (now, at least) are powered by DD S50s, except for some 700 series buses out of JG, which have (AFAIK) Cummins L10Gs. Thanks to the repowering program, there are only a few Orions left with the Cummins C8.3 engine, in the 100-300 series.
Most (if not all) of the Orions belonging to the private DOT operators are powered by the same DD S50 engine, except for some suburbans belonging to Triboro, Quenss Surface, and Command, which have the S50G (for CNG). Bus #485 is not unqiue, at least when a B/O revs the engine up.
There are no 700-series buses in JG or anywhere in the TA for that matter. Only a handful of the 100-300 Orions had the Cummins (295-300?) All or most of those 1993 orions are now DD50 powered.
Orion Numbers at TA
101-317(formerly 93001-9307)
400-680
6000-6349
Didn't the TA have a set of Orion CNGs to go along with the New Flyer C40s? What happpened, did they auction them off?
Those CNG Orions are numbered 581-610. They are still very much alive and well.
Thanks for the info!
The TA doesn't have 700 series Orions
The Orions are
101-317
400-680
JG has New Flyer C40LF that are #s 800-989
Well QSC has CNG powered Orion buses, however the engine used in QSC's Orions is a CNG version of the Series 50 that the TA uses in it's Orions.
QSC has 104 CNGs, all but two have 4 cyl DD engines. 404 & 437 have John Deer 6 cyl CNGs, painted GREEN of course.
LI Bus has Cummings in their Orions.
Mr t
288-359, 657-666 have DD50 series Engines in them and as Qtraindash 7 says-they're similar to the QSC Orions.
#356 N20
#434 Q65
LI Bus 657-666 do NOT have DD S50 engines. They are powered by the same loud Cummins gas engines as 101-287.
Mark
Does it go up to 666 or 667. Are those buses still running? Don't see them too often.
#657 N6
Yup. Exactly. And Yeah those Cummins can growl pretty loud. Plus they have a tendency to overheat, I've seen 657-666 breakdown ALOT. Since they are old and tired RVC has 'em, so they can rest on the weekends.
CNGs in general are prone to overhead vs. the same engine in a diesel version, SO you can't let them idle too long on a hot day.
We have had a couple of problems. The City has helped us by ticketing bues in Mid-town caught idleing. But think of it from the drivers point of view ... he/she gets there early so they're not late for their run. They're not supose to park (go inside for a cool drink & a pee). They're not supose to idle, so it gets very hot in the bus if they do find a place to park. So they drive around and around the block until it's time to leave ... huck !
Mr t__:-(
Another reason to stick to good old reliable diesel fuel.
657-666 have DD Series 50G's? I think those are older Orion buses, unless they were recently repowered they originally use Cummins L10G. For some reason the engine sounds different in those compared to the other Cummins. I think that 657-666 are used now at RVC depot, I never see them on my routes anymore.
Do you know where is RVC Depot and what routes they run on?
I know exactly where it is.
Just north of Sunrise Highway at the West end of Rockville Centre.
It's just north of King Kullen & the fire station.
BTW, it's not open on week-ends
Mr t
Then why do I see N25 Running on Weekends? Since RVC Runs that Route. And what depot would run N25 on Weekends?
All weekend runs are out of Mitchell Field, which actually has been renamed. Sorry I cannot recall who it was renamed after.
The Mitchel Field depot is named the Senator Norman Levy Transit Center. The late Senator was a strong supporter of Mass Transit.
Mitchell Filed operates those buses. In fact, they handle ALL Weekend and holiday work
N1,N4,N6,N15,N19,N20/N21,N22,N23,N24,N25,N32,N33,N35,N40/N41,N49,N55,
N57,N58,N71,N79.Flyer
these lines are served by Mitchell Field on Sundays anfd holidays.
Rockville Centre operates these routes:
N1,N2,N3,N4,N14,N17,N25,N31/N32,N33,N36.
The newest Orion batch 288-359 use DD Series 50G engines at LIB.
I'm looking to expand my online rollsign collection to buses. If anyone knows (or has) rollsigns from bus operators, please post the readings here.
I would prefer rollsigns from bus operators in the NYC area.
check my
http://community-1.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT
I have them all and current
Steve
I'm looking for rollsign readings, not flipdot sign readings.
Rollsigns, like this:
I've seen on the Green Bus rollsign signs for a route called Q21A.
(Rockaway-New Lots Av IRT station)
That's not on the flipdot signs.
ok,,was trying to help ,,i might have them ,,anyway for the DOT ROUTES
According to CNN a driver of a bus on an Interstate Highway in Tennessee had his throat slit by a passenger at 4 AM this morning. Greyhound has shut down service until it can be learned if this is part of terrorist plot or just the random act of a mentally disturbed person.
The bus (appears to be a DL-3 or newer not a 12) flipped when the driver pulled the wheel. The Interstate is closed eastbound but open westbound with long delays.
Reports vary but there are 6 confirmed dead with a possibility of 12 and many injured. The driver, miraculously has survived and is in critical condition at a Manchester TN. hospital
Stay tuned....let's hope that this is the act of a mental deranged person and not more ominous.
According to Yahoo, it's a D4500 or the same classification, BUS 1115.
Originating in Chicago, destination Orlando.
As of 1pm today, Greyhound has resumed normal service on all of its lines. Also this incident has NO relation to the Terrorists.
#951 Amtrak AEM-7
The True Red White and Blue!
My partner on my route told me the bad news this morning. I heard it's not related to terrorism, but it could mean the PA may be thinking about installing metal detectors at the PAT. Right now, someone could get on the 11a bus to Leonia with a boxcutter or a bomb and no one would be any the wiser.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/637318.asp
or www.cnn.com which has (sadly) a great overhead photo of the bus on its side.
People keep saying that they love NY and we feel bad for all New Yorkers. When I ask people, "do they mean all New Yorkers or just NYC?" To me, IT DOES NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!! Just like in Oklahoma City, all Oklahomans were affected. I live on LI but I lived in the city for 19 years before I moved. When people say, we love NY, that means from Manhattan to Massena, from Buffalo to Brooklyn!!! I say this because everybody has an opinion and thinks that we mean NYC...NO!!! I'm offended by that. Also, I'm happy that I'm an American and a New Yorker. I'm glad to be a part of this family....whether it's Transitalk, Transitworld and BusTalk and SubTalk. I feel that we need to stick together. No more fighting on line here. I'm not going to mention any names BUT you know who you are. So, let's stick together. Please respond to this.
RAY
USA all the way!
Wow...
Nice job on that speech, Ray!!!
I love NY, NYC, LI, Westchester, most of NY. And I agree with you somewhat...
When I say "I love NY", most of the time I am referring to NYC, not the entire state...but I do like New York State as a whole as well, to some extent...and we should stop whatever fighting we are doing here...
Well, again...great speech...you are a great guy...
Cleanairbus
Ray, May I suggest that you expand the scope of your "love" to include the tri-state region ... NY, NJ & CT ?
Personally I don't have the same affection for Buffalo as I do for Newark or Riverhead ... but that's just me.
Mr t
Sure, no problem! I include the areas of Northeastern New Jersey and Western Connecticut!
Ray
USA all the way!
What I don't get about Suffolk Transit is onthe website they don't even tell what Holldays that buses would be running on.
Anouther thing. Their have a systerm map that don't even show. It downloads BUT it's not showing anything.
If the map is .pdf, it may be a problem on your end. I had the same problem with the MTA last time I tried getting maps. And Ride-On is also witholding schedules for this Monday which is a problem for me.
I stand corrected. Ride-On has (finally) posted their schedule. I think this info should be released at least one week prior.
Do any body know what buses run on these following routes? Routes: S29,S40,S41,S54,S58,and S61.
Also. Would Suffolk be running this monday on normal weekday service?
S-54 and S-58 usually have Orion V's. IIRC they're 30 or 35 footers. Mostly in the new livery.
Don't know if they're running Monday. You should call them at 631-852-5200 tomorrow or Friday during normal business hours.
Considering that Columbus Day is usually a big shopping day with all kinds of sales, it wouldn't be too smart not to run the fleet.
Passing by the paint shop on the way to the yard, spotted a CBL MCI on the lawn with a fresh coat of paint. As usual, the number wasn't painted on yet. In the back, I spotted a engineless GBL RTS. She must have been involved in a fire because there are scorch marks around the compartment. This RTS has been there for some time.
(After all of this time posting here on BusTalk, I have finally
posted images here!!!!!!)
Anyway, here are some images, if you haven't seen them already...
Three photos of #609 @ the Hoboken Terminal during the Try Transit Festival...
--Cleanairbus
Hi,
To post images you need to upload them to a web server. Yours are linked to your hard drive, which means you can see them on your computer but no one else can. You can get free webspace from commercial services like Geocities to upload your photos, or do it the quick-and-dirty way by getting a free photo album from MSN or one of myriad similar sites.
Looking forward to seeing the images!
Chris
DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, Guys!!!!!!!
Trevor, hate to bust it to ya, but yours didn't work either!
If at first you don't succeed dust yourself off and try again . . . RIP Aaliyah . . .
Play play on --
C
OK, they worked after I went to the MSN Communities site and signed in to Passport . . . now they display in the Bustalk message like they supposed to . . .
c
>>> now they display in the Bustalk message like they supposed to <<<
Wrong again. They are not here.
Tom
That's what I said at first, too, Tom. You just have to sign in to MSN Communities first or it won't display them, otherwise MSN won't serve the images. Click the links higher in the thread to the MSN photo album, then come back and load trevor's post and they'll show.
Cheers,
Chris
>>> You just have to sign in to MSN Communities first or it won't display them ... then come back and load trevor's post and they'll show <<<
I had no problem with Trevor's photos, it was the original ones posted by Cleanairbus that I could not see, and signing in to MSN with their registration procedures was more than I wanted to do.
Tom
NICE!
I got the photos from Cleanairbus and I posted the Blue Bird Photos.
Go to http://communities.msn.com/MyTransitPage/PhotoAlbums and look for NJ Transit and click on it and these photos should be on Page 5 and Page 6.
Indeed they are. Thanks, both of you, for sharing them . . . something about the proportions of that bus doesn't gibe well with the NJ Transit paint scheme, but it's interesting to see it.
C
caught sight of these 3 buses out of service:
#6284(Orion V)-out of service at 86th St and 4th Av. According to disptacher, bus had leak.
#4860(TMC RTS)-Brighton Beach Ave and Coney Island Avenue-starter.
#814(New Flyer)-got hit by garbage truck on 10/2/01-saw the back light missing and the broken glass afterwards. occured on 86th street and fort hamilton parkway. nobody was hurt from what i can see.
any other buses down today?
B64-#4774
Here's one to added to that list.
Nova RTS #5125 broke down on the Right Lane on the Triborough Bridge. I saw it myself when I was going to school in the AM. And it also caused a Backup all the way to LGA and there was anouther bus on the brige broke down. BUT I don't think it was anouther bus that broke down. It was anouther bus to take the people on #5125.
Run 02 / Q46 #4937 towed from Long Island Jewish Hospital- dead transmission.
I saw a picture of 5125 parked somewhere in lower Manhattan days after the WTC tragedy. Sorry to hear she's having mechanical problems.
Heard about the jam up on the Triboro Br on 1010 wins this morning. "A bus broke down on the Triboro blocking the right lane."
Seems like more and more Newer buses are breaking down-MCI, Novas, Orions etc. I wonder why?
#1767 Q1
#3965 Q46
Any idea when the B54 will get back to a terminal that is truly downtown? for awhile after 9/11, the bus was going around to its' terminal via Flatbush & Livingston to Smith/Jay. Now it ends short of Flatbush on Myrtle, making the hike to the Court Street 4,5 more of a pain in the ass than it was.
Is there any reason this bus couldn't somehow terminate nearer the 24-hour Dekalb station entrance, or, go around to its' normal terminal? Or, maybe increase service on the 69 up and down Vanderbuilt to hit Grand Army Plaza and the Lafayette stations from Clinton Hill instead?
The B51 is the route you are referring to. The B54 is the Myrtle Ave. route (Brooklyn portion only).
He may be referring to the fact that the B54 was and may still be detoured away from the Metrotech Center area. Making that right onto Jay Street from that Metrotech access road (that one of the tech buildings sits right on top of) can easily be construed as a security problem.
The B51 has been suspended till further notice, though as more of Lower manhattan is opened up it will probably return.
Right. I am referring to the Myrtle Bus B54. It no longer crosses Flatbush on Myrtle inbound. Immediately following 9/11, it didn't go through Metrotech, instead turning left off of Myrtle onto Flatbush, east to Nevins, then right on Livingston, finally coming up to a right on Smith/Jay to its' normal Metrotech terminal. For the last two weeks or so, the last inbound stop is just before Flatbush on Myrtle in that little retail strip by the co-ops.
Outbound, it takes a right on Flatbush, then a right on Tillary, then another right past the fire station, then gets back outbound on Myrtle (can't recall the street) where the KFC is, near the SE corner of Fort Greene park.
Evenings and Nights this is kind of an iffy place to wait for the bus, and, since the west end Dekalb subway exit is closed, it is a bit of a hike from any of the big Downtown Brooklyn subway stops.
Ideally, the B54 could get a terminal route like the temporary one, that goes past Dekalb, Nevins, and the IND Jay Street subway stations (especially since B38 service inbound in the morning is spotty)
Oh OK,thanks. I wasn't aware of this change. I was also thrown off when I saw the word "downtown" thinking you meant Manhattan when instead you were referring to Downtown Brooklyn.
I am a Brooklynite, yet, I am curious of this *Manhattan* you speak of...never heard of it. ; )
Add 8317 and 8117 to the list of repowered buses.
B17#8117Mike
B46#8317Mike
And #8356 and #8386.
8352, 8355, 8388, 8394 as well.
Repowered at QV: 8352, 8355-8356, 8373, 8375, 8386, 8388, 8394.
HP had 8500 and 8503 recently repowered.
#8373 Q46
#8500 Q32
And add 8070 from Gun Hill, she was brought back from Zerega night before last.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.TransiTalk.com
Add 8555 from JG.
B35#8555
When did GJ get back 8565 & 8566 from FB. I saw a few days ago, I don;t remeber whitch line, but it was a JG line.
Robert
add these buses to the repowered list. Saw them running today:
8172,8185,8555,8559
also saw #736 with a new paint job and neater windows from TCC
and #359 from Command looking real sharp with new windows and a nice paint job.
Some Greyhound buses have a name for them other than number located at the top towards the front. Does anybody have a list of these names and which is the most interesting. I've only seen 2 since I don't ride Greyhound often, "Straightaway till morning" and "Tee Dum Tee Dum"
I know Peter Pan names thier buses, But to date I've never seen a "named" Greyhound bus.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
DeCamp used to name their busses. Do they still do this?
Peace,
ANDEE
Also IIRC Qnexnious (?) before acquired by Academy did also.
I think you're describing the Peter Pan buses rather than Greyhound. It sounds like you're thinking Greyhound because of the pool service between PP and GLI. The Peter Pan buses are named after parts of the company's namesake story "Peter Pan."
Those sound like names given to Peter Pan Bus Lines equipment...which also does have fleet numbers as well.
Greyhound, at one time, DID have some buses named...they would have "Silver Stripe Americruiser John Doe" stenciled on the door (John Doe being any one of the names) and they had a silver stripe addes just forward of the red diagonal. I think these were done to honor drivers who had outstanding safety records. It was done mostly to 102A3's, but in recent years, as we know, most of those have been sold off. I haven't seen a "Silver Stripe Americruiser" in about three years now.
I was coming out of Jay street A,C,F station when i saw 3997 coming towards fulton street mall. I noticed the signage looked familiar. Tell me why it said Q5 via merrick! It looks familiar because The Q5 is 2 blocks from my house. The Q84 is as well. I wonder if the sign was busted. I think that bus is from Gleason depot, but that was funny tho!
Here's another: Bus 8964 on the Q46 at 10am this morning. It dropped off passengers and then deadheaded back which probably meant a tripper.
521 and 1751 were on the Q31 and 3807 was on the Q46.
Boy is QV Short of buses especially with the 8300s o/s for repowering, 9300s for repainting and the others with mechanical problems.
#8964 Q46
#521 Q31
Many of you probably know about the horrible attack that took place aboard a Greyhound bus in Tennessee yesterday; the driver was slain with a knife, along with five other people. On the news, an MCI 102 DL3 in the new paint scheme was shown on its side in a field with the rear emergency exit windows open. There is no word as to whether this was an act of terrorism, but it certainly seems inspired by what occured aboard the flights that destroyed the World Trade Center a few weeks ago.
This senseless act caused Greyhound service to shut down nationwide and sadly took more people's lives. While only six people were killed as opposed to thousands, that is still six too many. We should pray for those victims and fight for increased security at all airline and bus travel facilities.
-F.
Correction; according to another post the driver survived thankfully. At any rate, the six people were taken from us in a very senseless manner of violence. God bless their families.
-F.
Make that 5 - the 6th fatality was the assailant himself.
The assailant turned out to be a metanlly disturbed Croatian. This incident is total separate from the Mega Terrorist Attacks on the WTC and Pentagon.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
True that. But still it is a shame that we have lost more people to a senseless act. You can't even ride a bus anymore without fear of some crazoid endangering your life on board, as if the nuts on the road aren't bad enough. That's a damned shame.
-F.
I went to Long Beach today. Going i took the N27 to Roosevelt Field then the N15 to Long Beach. On LOng Beach road there appears to be a City of Long Beach bus depot, and in it I saw an RTS number 156. I didn't know they had RTS's. I walked to the west end of the boardwalk, and instead of walking back I figured I'd walk to W.Beech street and take the N33 to Long Beach. Boy what a waste of time. Waited 20 minutes, and the bus just breezed by me and the driver pointed east. Another passenger was waiting and said the eastbound N33 doesn't make stops on W.Beech street, you have to take a Long Beach bus. Well that explains the lack of bus stop signs on the south side of W.Beech. Man how stupid is that? I wasn't going to wait anymore and just walked the 30 minutes it took to get back to Long Beach train station area. I always thought LI Bus made all stops on all it's routes in Nassau county. Well I guess I was wrong on that one, and exceptions to that ARE NOT posted by LI Bus in it's schedules etc.
Going back I took LIRR to Lynbrook and the N25 to Great Neck. I was waiting for the 6:42pm N21 to Glen Cove which never came. The next one came at 7:28pm. The driver was on the radio talking about a bus with "door problems" stuck on Middle Neck road. Well I saw it was #355 N21 GLEN COVE, pulled over. They didn't get another bus so mine was kinda crowded to Glen Cove.
Long Beach has only ONE RTS, that #156 that you saw.
Before that,t hey had a bunch of 31-foot Flxibles (155-down). Now the majority of their fleet is Gillig Phantoms numbered 157-up.
Do Long Beach Transit Take MetroCards? And how much is the fare. And what other buses they have besides Gilligs and RTS?
No they do not take Metrocards. I am writing LI Bus complaining about the N33 not stopping on W.Beech street E/B only. If Long Beach transit took metrocards I wouldn't argue, but they do not. I guess next time I go to the Long Beach West neighborhood I'll have to take a W/B N33 to Atlantic Beach and then an E/B N33 to get back to Long Beach. I have a weekly unlimited and the setup in W.Long Beach is not fair to unlimited MC holders. And there's no mention anywhere on the LI Bus N33 schedule about the N33 not picking up pax going to Long Beach. I guess it's just yet another way LI Bus tells us "you're better off driving".
I think they should so like that people that want a N33 Bus could take a Long Beach Bus instead.
Also. Do anybody know what Website Adress for Long Beach Transit in Long Beach,NY?
see --
http://www.longislandnet.com/longbeach/lbbus.htm
CG
The building you saw on the west side of Long Beach Road just south of the bridge from Island Park is the garage. I belive that the building or one next to it houses the other heavy equipment for the City of Long Beach.
In addition to not picking up going eastbound while in Long Beach, the N33 does not discharge passengers until you get into Atlantic Beach. It's the same basic deal LI Bus has in Queens -- no competition with the local routes.
The fare is $1.00 for Long Beach City busses within the city. The route to Point Lookout and Lido Beach (the old LI Bus N69) is $1.50.
CG
Does Long Beach transit give a reduced fare to those with I.D.?
I still argue with the LI Bus N33 pattern. Long Beach is in Nassau county and is not a seperate county like Queens which is part of NYC.
In NYC, NYC transit runs routes that "compete" with riders of DOT routes. Also the N33 makes drop-offs on the N33 in Queens.
I just don't think it is fair to riders in Long Beach. At the very least, the schedule should state that LI Bus does not discharge/pickup pax in Long Beach.
I lived in Long Beach for a year back around 1989 and took the N33 every day. It's really a non-issue for a Long Beach resident, unless you were planning on transferring to or from the N15. If I was headed to downtown Long Beach, I'd just take the City Bus and save (the fare was only 50 cents then, and it ran just as frequently as the N33 and also later into the evening.) If I remember correctly, the City offers free transfers between their various routes.
The web site (http://www.longislandnet.com/longbeach/lbbus.htm) says that handicapped/medicare card holders ride for 50 cents.
CG
So, what new buses is the WMATA planning to get? New Orion Vs, for sure, and I heard something about New Flyers, but what else. ALos extend that question to Ride-On, which should try to get other types of buses as well, instead of just the slanted window kinds (Gillig and Orion).
New Flyer is expected to get 100 C40LF buses, which would be assigned to Bladensburg. Those are the only new WMATA buses that I'm aware of.
Yeah, those are the only ones I know of as well. The only new thing I've seen happen to the current fleet is equipping some of the Virginia Orion VI's with the NextBus technology and changing 4309's destination sign to that bright orange Balios sign. Saw it this morning on the 10B coming through Ballston.
When are they due?
I think later this fall. Metro placed the order late last year (for CNG-powered C40LFs) after a vote by its board of directors -- among the factors were DC's high asthma rate, which some have intimated can be caused or aggravated by diesel smoke, as well as smog concerns in light of increasing ridership. Supposed to be 100 of them, I believe. Wonder what they'll be numbered?
Chris
They are to be numbered in the 2300s and there are 100. I think the numbers are going to be 2300-2399.
Next weekend 10/13 & 10/14 WMATA will offer free rides.
Wayne
Hmm...I will be going over to Virginia Beach that weekend...perhaps I should take a sharp turn before going home. Free rides in DC would be awesome. Will that apply to the Orange Line as well? I really don't want to motor past Vienna.
-F.
Yes, it will. It's too bad for me because I'll be out of town that entire weekend.
Wayne
Hello everyone; just wanted to let you know that I am working on a couple new models of the New Flyer Low Floor series. The first is an "N" scale version of the D35LF, and possibly the D40LF; also, I plan to do a 1:50 scale bank version of the D40LF. If anyone is interested, let me know; hope to hear from you soon!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Hey Fred,
I'd love to see pictures when you get a prototype done. Are you casting it yourself or modifying an existing model?
Chris
Chris, I am modifying an existing model. The N scale versions will be restyled European coaches, while the 1:50 scale bank will be derived from a Bluebird. Each type will look right on after a good amount of "meatball surgery".
-F.
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Folks, I just witnessed another interesting bus sighting on UPN tonight. On "The Specialist", an RTS pulled up to the curb to pick up a passenger. The bus was a reddish color with fleet no. 1161 and read "BRICKELL" between the headlights. Any idea where this one is from? I've never heard of that TA before.
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
Hey all,
I had the day off so I took the MBTA commuter train up to Boston (from Providence). Had a great time, etc., riding the subway (loved the E trolley on the Green line and the Blue line to Wonderland), seeing the ships.
A couple questions for any Boston natives (or others in the know) who may be reading:
1. Near Harvard Yard in Cambridge, I spotted, at a distance, what appeared to be an AM General 40-foot bus, in the T's yellow-and-white scheme. I didn't know Boston had any of these, and I certainly didn't expect to see them in service, seeing how WMATA's 600 units barely made it to 15 years in service. Are these common in Boston? What's the best route to take to get one?
2. At the Boylston station on the Green subway/trolley line, I saw a PCC and an older trolley on a sidetrack. Do these ever get put in service on special occasions, or are they just there as museum pieces? I couldn't tell whether the track they were on was connected by a switch to the main line or not. I'd love to ride a PCC, seeing as most municipalities which still have them, like NJTransit in Newark, are phasing them out.
3. I saw a wrecked GMC RTS-06, #9420, on a flatbed truck crossing the Summers St. Bridge near the CA/T site (Big Dig). It was painted in blue-and-white and had the moniker "PAUL REVERE" on the side. It had extensive rear and rear-side damage, as if it had maybe hit a vehicle while changing lanes. My question is about Paul Revere: is it a private outfit, like Academy in NY/NJ, or a public authority? I noticed another Revere RTS near Logan airport later in the day. I'd never heard of it.
Thanks in advance for any answers. I don't know how many Bostoners (Bostonites? Bostonians?) we have in here, but I'd love to know about the above.
Best,
Chris
1. Near Harvard Yard in Cambridge, I spotted, at a distance, what appeared to be an AM General 40-foot bus, in the T's yellow-and-white scheme. I didn't know Boston had any of these, and I certainly didn't expect to see them in service, seeing how WMATA's 600 units barely made it to 15 years in service. Are these common in Boston? What's the best route to take to get one?
They're actually Flyer E901 ETBs. I know the trackless routes in Boston hub out of Harvard, but I forgot which routes...
I don't know about #2...
3. I saw a wrecked GMC RTS-06, #9420, on a flatbed truck crossing the Summers St. Bridge near the CA/T site (Big Dig). It was painted in blue-and-white and had the moniker "PAUL REVERE" on the side. It had extensive rear and rear-side damage, as if it had maybe hit a vehicle while changing lanes. My question is about Paul Revere: is it a private outfit, like Academy in NY/NJ, or a public authority? I noticed another Revere RTS near Logan airport later in the day. I'd ever heard of it.
Paul Revere Transportation is a private company which uses ex-NYCTA RTS coaches. They also operate the MassPort shuttle at Logan Airport, however they normally use Neoplan AN-440A CNG buses (similar to the first LA CNG specs w/L-10 Engine).
Crieghton's got the answers for questions 1 and 3, but I thought I'd try my hand at #2.
While I don't know about the cars you saw on the side track, I do know that Boston does still operate PCCs on a shuttle extension of the Red Line known as the Mattapan-Ashmont line. They're partway into a rebuilding program of these wartime cars, which are of the Air-Electric variety, in which they've been rebuilt, and now will carry the original Orange scheme that they came in with.
I've heard that the cars are not as neat as the Newark cars were, but it's still nice to know that the PCCs will be around for several years to come.
Thanks very much to both of you for the answers! I'll definitely check out that segment of the Red Line next time I'm up there. It's very good to know that PCCs continue in service. And I'll try to grab a Flyer/AMGen trolley as well.
Chris
Q1. Near Harvard Yard in Cambridge, I spotted, at a distance, what appeared to be an AM General 40-foot bus, in the T's yellow-and-white scheme. I didn't know Boston had any of these, and I certainly didn't expect to see them in service, seeing how WMATA's 600 units barely made it to 15 years in service. Are these common in Boston? What's the best route to take to get one?
A1: Those aren't AM Generals. Those are Flyer E800s. They retired the AM Generals in the mid-1980s when they acquired the first wave of RTSs.
Q2: At the Boylston station on the Green subway/trolley line, I saw a PCC and an older trolley on a sidetrack. Do these ever get put in service on special occasions, or are they just there as museum pieces? I couldn't tell whether the track they were on was connected by a switch to the main line or not. I'd love to ride a PCC, seeing as most municipalities which still have them, like NJTransit in Newark, are phasing them out.
A2: Usually on special occasions. Type 5 5734 and PCC 3295 are static pieces, but when they have celebrations they often let the two of them out by placing a track and connecting them to the main line. However, PCCs do exist, and you can take the Red Line to Ashmont and you can ride a PCC to Mattapan and back. (I strongly recommend you do it in the daytime - the area is not quite too safe at night.)
Q3: I saw a wrecked GMC RTS-06, #9420, on a flatbed truck crossing the Summers St. Bridge near the CA/T site (Big Dig). It was painted in blue-and-white and had the moniker "PAUL REVERE" on the side. It had extensive rear and rear-side damage, as if it had maybe hit a vehicle while changing lanes. My question is about Paul Revere: is it a private outfit, like Academy in NY/NJ, or a public authority? I noticed another Revere RTS near Logan airport later in the day. I'd never heard of it.
A3: Paul Revere is actually a "private" bus service that serves the Hospitals area, Cambridge, and Winthrop. In fact, Winthrop never had MBTA service - it was provided by a service known as Rapid Transit Inc. which was served by AM General buses. Sometime during the early 1990s, Rapid Transit Inc. folded and Paul Revere took over the Winthrop services. At first, Paul Revere used ugly Thomas school buses for daily revenue service, but in 1997 Paul Revere acquired a fleet of ex-NYCTA RTSs, numbered 9400-9436 (or higher?). Paul Revere also has a series of minicoaches and those Aerotech shuttles (a la Septa Breeze).
Hope this helps.
Brian
Brian,
Thanks very much for the thorough answers, particularly on the history of Paul Revere! I appreciate your taking the time to answer that.
one quick further question: How long have PCCs been out of service on the Green line? I took the Green/E to Heath Street and at the terminus there was a trolley loop such as would be used by a one-way car like a PCC. I'd guess the two-way trainset I rode (one of those Japanese-buiilt LRVs, I forget the manufacturer's name) would date from the '70s or '80s so I'm surprised they haven't replaced the loop with a straight terminus during a street repaving or something.
Thanks again for the help. I'll check out the E800s and PCCs next time I head up there and heed your advice about doing it in the daytime!
Chris
Chris:
The last time a PCC ran in regular Green Line service was in 1985, when they "temporarily" shut down the Arborway line. The PCCs by then were almost 95% retired/scrapped/destroyed (we originally had a fleet of 321 PCCs (3000-3321), and then a delivery of 25 or so "Dallas" double-ended PCCs (3322-3346?)). The MBTA then started delivery on Boeing-Vertol LRVs (3400-3550) in 1976 or so, then ten years later we got the Kinki-Sharyo "Type 7" units (3600-3699), and an additional 20 units (3700-3719) in 1997. The Breda trolleys are here, but they've been derailing left and right and causing a PR nightmare.
As for the Heath St Loop: that's been there for many years, likely around the same time subway service was instituted. And you are correct: PCCs didn't have the luxury of being double-ended, so a loop had to be built to turn them around. (Many of the trolleys that ran before the institution of bus service had to find some way to turn around, and not "change ends" like the older trolleys.)
The MBTA is on its way of getting new Neoplan trolleybuses to replace the E800s; they will be German-designed rather than American designed (although the new low-floor articulated buses will definitely come from the US) and replace the entire E800 fleet, which has seen better days. Hopefully, a few of those ETBs will sent to Seashore or Shore Line trolley museum.
One more thing - Paul Revere also operates the Neoplan Massport buses that circle around Logan Airport (someone mentioned this in a previous thread, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did). They have a facility both at the Airport and near Orient Heights station near the Winthrop line.
Hope I answers your questions further.
Brian
One question:
WHY have the Breda Type-8s been derailing so often...???
Cleanairbus
Cleanairbus:
The main problem is the wheels. I rode them infrequently enough to notice, but I noticed under the wheels that they were similar to the Metrorail trains in Washington - a smaller, thicker outer wheel topping the regular wheel. While the Boeings and Type 7s have no problems in high-speed situations (e.g. the Highland branch), it seems the Bredas didn't tackle the rails as well, most likely because of the extra wheel. A few weeks ago, a set of Bredas derailed near Boston College, and it took down the catenary. This gave the MBTA reason to put the Bredas out of service.
Interesting. There's not been a derailment problem in Washington -- I can only think of a few incidents where trains have ever derailed, and they've all been the consequence of other factors, like the 1982 Federal Triangle disaster (caused by a train backing through an improperly thrown switch, then derailing and slamming into a wall, causing the death of several passengers) and a yard collision in the late '70s that destroyed two cars when two trains converged on the same switch.
Has Breda built LRV trolleys for any other US cities?
Chris
They build heavy & light rail as well as buses.
Mr t
San Francisco MUNI has almost the same model of LRVs that Boston does, and there have been a long list of problems with those cars.
Breda also made the infamous dual-mode buses of King County Metro (Seattle).
As far as I know, those are the only two cities that has Breda equipment, though there are probably others in the US.
Breda supplied the Cleveland RTA with 48 light rail cars in the mid-1980's for the Green and Blue rapid transit/light rail lines (formerly the two Shaker Heights lines). I was in Cleveland a few months back and the Breda cars seemed to ride well.
Apparently, there were some serious teething pains with the Bredas in San Francisco when they first arrived in the mid-1990s. I knew about the WMATA Breda cars, but didn't know about Cleveland. I was really focusing in the LRVs rather than the heavy rail cars.
Buses? Since when did Breda make those? I thought they only manufactured light rail vehicles.
-F.
Breda is a large Italian manufacturer that is probably capable of making most any sort of transit vehicle. Most of their US business is in Light Rail Vehicles, but Breda is responsible for the 232 dual-mode diesel-electric (that is to say internal combustion engine/trolley, as opposed to hybrid-electric) trolleybuses that were custom-designed for Seattle's excellent and unique bus tunnel system. There have been some problems with the Breda buses, especially concerning their weight, but I think these are overall good buses. They are all 60-foot artics, have three wide doors, Detroit Diesel engines (rare in Seattle), and they look like a cross between a MAN artic and and Neoplan artic. I liked these buses a lot; maybe I just liked Seattle's bus tunnel a lot. I can email you a picture of one if you are interested.
Could you post/e-mail one? I'd love to see one. I'm only familiar with Breda's subway and LR products.
Thanks,
Chris
Ditto here. I had no idea Breda did anything outside light rail.
-F.
Ooh...do that! I've gotta see this Breda bus.
-F.
Breda also bulid Buses.
The only ones are the one's on Seattle and MTA NYC Transit was to have 75 Breda Low Floors aready after MTA made a order with Breda back in 1999.(THIS INFO CAME FROM 9/1999 ISSUE OF BUS RIDE).
What happened with the MTA order? Did they not get theirs? Let me know; thanks!
-F.
Breda made the dual-mode buses for Seattle a few years ago. They are ugly, underpowered, and a nightmare to Seattle Metro's maintenance department. They have a Detroit 6V92TA engine to push a 50,000 pound bus in a veyr hilly city, giving them a top speed (downhill, with major tailwind) of 50 miles an hour!!
Breda does make standard buses though -- but most of them are in Italy. Rarely are they exported. You've heard all the jokes about Fiat, you could just imagine what they'd come up with about Breda buses!!!!
Hmm...I like the fact they have 6v92s. However, I can't get into ugly buses; I'll have to judge that when I see the photos.
-F.
You shouldn't judge Breda solely on the Seattle buses. I realize that Breda's dual mode buses have been a nightmare to operate and maintain. However, they are a one of a kind bus and extremely complex. Breda builds tough and reliable buses. I was stationed in Italy while serving in the U.S. Air Force and had the opportunity to ride many Breda built buses on the transit systems of most major Italian cities. Italian bus drivers drive their buses as though they are Ferraris abusing them to no end with foot to the floor accelerating and very hard braking. The Bredas withstood the abuse without missing a beat.
I rode that line last summer to The Flats; the Breda cars seemed to do fine, nice and smooth. Also, I rode Bredas on the Orange Line at WMATA last year; the Breda cars were from 1981 and performed well.
-F.
The Federal Triangle Incident was a Rohr train.
Q2: At the Boylston station on the Green subway/trolley line, I saw a PCC and an older trolley on a
sidetrack ....
A2 (a): Those are MOW cars, you may also see a newer car parked there as a spare in case of trouble on the line. Next time get off at that station & take a close look, you'll see what I mean.
Mr t
The MOW cars are on the Westbound section, while the "Antiques" (the orange cars) are on the Eastbound section.
<< They retired the AM Generals in the mid-1980s when they acquired the first wave of RTSs. >>
Actually, a few AM General buses did survive in service until 1990, when all remaining AMG and Flxible buses were replaced by the 8000/8800/8900 series RTS buses.
<< In fact, Winthrop never had MBTA service - it was provided by a service known as Rapid Transit Inc. which was served by AM General buses. >>
The MBTA has subsidized the Winthrop service financially for years. The T also leased some of its buses to Rapid Transit. For years, GMC buses 7508, 7509 and 7520-7529 were Rapid Transit's fleet, and all were painted in a green, white and silver scheme. Then in the mid 1980's, the MBTA took these buses back (they were rebuilt and joined the regular MBTA fleet), and the revolving door began spinning!
First came the 9700 series AM Generals, but these buses were junk by this time and they didn't last long in service. Then, the T replaced the AMG's with some 7600-series Flxibles (which were even older!). Around this time, Rapid Transit purchased four used GMC fishbowl buses from Brockton's BAT, and these buses were used for base service and the MBTA buses only operated during rush hours. Near the end, the MBTA replaced some of the broken down Flxibles with rebuilt 7500's, and this motley fleet closed out the Rapid Transit era.
Now, as noted above, Paul Revere has brought used buses back to Winthrop in the form of the ex-NYCTA RTS’s. It’s sad to say, but those Thomas school buses were probably the only time in the last 30 or 40 years that the riders of Winthrop had anything close to ‘new buses’.
Jim D.
I decided to take the X29 bus home from work today to see how it ran after the incident at WTC. It runs regular up to Houston Street-then left off Houston to allen-right on Allen to FDR-then to Pearl street via Brooklyn Battery Tunnel to Gowanens Service road via 20th Street to regular route. If you are a bus fan and want pictures, be down on Pearl Street, lots of Queens Surface and TA buses there. Dont understand why the X92 doesnt run? I mean, it can operate via Pearl Street. also, i saw buses parked on FDR Drive. Does any buses use it express to brooklyn, or is it used as a prking lot?
X29-run #001-#2792 MCI
total trip time-1 hour-40 minutes from 57th St-madison av to w 5th st-neptune Av
Did this bus disappear? I haven't seen it in months. I haven't seen it on any FP for a long time. Does anyone know where it is?
It's being repowered
Ray
8171 has long been a FP lemon along with sister 8170, which was recently repowered. 8171 was sitting ouside the depot for a long time where the M line structure comes down to grade just past Fresh Pond Rd. station. A month or 6 weeks ago, 8171 was pulled out of there. Presumably it is being repowered, coming back as the second FP bus to be so done. Expect it to return home real soon.
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I just found some more buses on the tube; on a Gevalia Kaffe commercial, a well-dressed businessman deboards a red, white, and blue Fishbowl with silver sides outside of his apartment home before going upstairs to enjoy his coffee.
Also, in a Saab commercial, a catchy, upbeat tune plays while a 9-3 Turbo convertible passes by a Silver Eagle containing fascinated onlookers. The car sits by the roadside, and its passengers await the bus so they may pass it again. The message: "Be courteous to others on the road. Always give them a second look." Clever.
Let me know what other buses you see out there on the screen!
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
Here's one.
A Commercial for some brand of GUM that's came out with a NEW Favor Polor Ice.
There was 2 Guys standing in the front of the bus telling that to not eat that gum one guy was saying. The other one was showing a Arm of a Polar Bear on the right. It was inside of a RTS adn it was showing BLUE Seats,The Dashboard with #4475 on it,and showing a Farebox that was NOT a Metrocard FARE Box. It was the ones that takes Dollars and Coins.And the Dashboard was BLACK.
And here's one more.
A Commercial for Gillmore Girls for this Monday(I Think) was showing a Teen inside a RTS walking from the front of the bus and you could see the dashbroad of it with #108 on it. And he sits next to a girl and the seats where BLUE Padded seats and the dashboard was White.
Ooh....nice. Gotta check it out! Gilmore Girls sounds interesting.
-F.
Wrong, that was a preview of 7th Heaven at 8pm on the WB. I glimpsed at the preview of the show and it shows Simon Camden asking out a 16 year old pregnant woman who he meets on a bus. The other Camdens don't know why Simon is taking the bus. Looks like a future bus buff. ;)
I'm a frequent watcher of the show-since I don't have cable and there's nothing else good to watch, I watch it. Also there are some nice looking chicks on that show.
#951 Amtrak AEM-7
Hmm...nice looking chicks and buses? When is it on? I'm THERE!!!
-F.
8pm tomorrow night on the WB11.
#951 Amtrak AEM-7
I'm talking about the last 3 that were there, 4879, 4886, 4887. Please don't tell me they went to Manhattan, it doesn't deserve them.
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Hello everyone; I wanted to let you all know that I currently have some charity items on eBay. While they are not bus-related, they are NYC memorabilia items that are on special auctions in which all proceeds go to help the Twin Towers Fund and other charities to help the volunteers and the families of our fallen people who will be sorely missed. Items included are a New York Statue of Liberty Kenworth 18-wheeler and a NYC Police 1968 Plymouth Satellite. Other items to come include a 2000 Chevy Impala NYPD unit mint in box.
If you would take a moment of your time to check out the items, your country would greatly appreciate. Thank you for reading this post.
May God Bless America.
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
eBay ID: flxible
www.ebaystores.com/starcitycustomsonline
Anyone has an idea when these buses will hit t he streets?
Depending on whom at SEPTA you talk to, they will either be coming on line sometime this month or in early December. It's only been 3 years since SEPTA awarded the contract to New Flyer, so what's another couple of months, right?
Does anyone in NJ have any idea when they`re getting new Suburbans to replace the 3000`s. And who will build them? Although I like the Flx`s, they`re getting pretty long in tooth. The last group of these buses (the 1976-77 Flx`s) were sent to the scrap heap by '89. These current 3000's are (or have passed) their 12 years of service and now seems to be the time to replace them. Let me know when the new ones are coming, and who`s the builder.
Rumor was RTS Super Suburbans.
The contract for buses to replace the Flxible Metro B series buses hasn't been awarded officially yet. But, it would appear that the Nova RTS Super Suburbans are the leading candidates.
On Friday, October 5, 2001, I was heading to the Staten Island Mall, as I made the turn onto Platinum Avenue, RTS 2270 made the turn onto Platinum on the S56 heading to Eyelandt Street. Now I have wanted to ride this one ever since it came back from storage. I figured now was my chance since I was only down from school. I tried to get far enough ahead of the bus, but wasn't able to until after Woodrow Road on Arthur Kill Road.
While riding behind 2270, some interesting things on the exterior. The rear black panel covering the A/C was new - reason being because it had the LED extra brake light in the center. Also, there was a hole cut out for a rear destination sign.
When I finally got onto 2270, a few more things. This bus STILL has the VULTON ODK. The driver enters the current code into the farebox, but has to manually enter the Vulton code in the ODK. Operators have written on the panel around it the codes for the various routes and the destinations for which the 2270 will run on, including the S55,56,61,79, and others. Some of them were 611 and 52D - for those that know the codes.
Also, it still had the East New York Central Maintenance Facility MINT UPDATE sticker from 1990 on the panel.
The bus' interior was in very good condition. It rode very well for a 20 year old bus, and no black smoke from the rear. The engine still sounds like a 1981 and runs well for locals. I wouldn't test it on higher speed runs, though.
I think this one should go to the Museum Fleet along with 2660 and 1751,1767,1826, and the others from Queens, when it's time to go.
Wow...it's great to know that a bus from the initial RTS fleet is still our and running in regular service after 20 years. What other vintages of RTS are being run currently? I'd love to know.
-F.
1751 1767 1773 1826 and 1852 are the 1982 Suburbans that are still running around. 2660 is another local that runs on SI-probably on the same routes as 2270 runs on.
I remember riding 2270 when she was in Jamaica Depot on the Q17.
All of the 1983 Equipment have been retired from revenue service.
#1751 Q46
#2270 S55
Wow...nice to know. I wonder how the 1983s got retired before the 81 and 82s?
-F.
6v92 engine and the buses were delapidated.
I think there are a few as NYPD buses. 3013 and 3188 come to mind.
#1751 Q46
Because the 1983's were JUNK. Slow due the engine. I can swear, just by their sounds, that some of those slow engines survive in a few of FP's 4600/4700's vintage 1988.
The 1983 RTS's were my all time favorite. That is after the Blitz, Grumman, and New Look Flx. I believe the 1983 RTS had the 6v71 engine in them. I love the sound of that engine, and miss it dearly. They actually sounded like they worked for a living, unlike the series 50 engine. I also miss the 32**'s window style. They were always a bit darker, and the windows followed the contours of the bus better. I hope the TA wisens up and at least bring some 1983's back from storage for at least a month or two. Also does anyone know where i could ride a 6v71 engine equipped bus in the NYC area? All leads and info appreciated.
I agree on the 6v92....give me that over the Series 50 ANY day. I LOVE the sound of that engine! Also, the 6v71 is a personal favorite as well....I grew up with that one.
-F.
To my knowledge all the 1983 GMC RTS's are gone, except for 3099.
I believe the 3099 has been scrapped already.
Yowtch! I wonder if any are preserved in the historic fleet?
-F.
I never liked the 1983's. The 1982's were just great -- the interior had a very clean appearance, not yet marred by later improvements like vertical handholds, air assist doors, and that extra-glossy coat.
As for all-time favorites, that would go to the Blitz buses, with the Flx New Look a close second. (I realize I'm being a bit more generic here than with the RTS.) And, Orion fans, sorry, but the Orion is the ugliest bus the TA has owned since I was born, and the ride isn't all that great either. (I do like the large destination sign, though.)
I'm with you; I LOVE the Fishbowls and New Looks. If only they were still in regular service....:( Oh well. At least NYC has the good sense to preserve a few of them to run for their museum.
-F.
What type of engine did they have? I wonnder what happened in 83....
-F.
The 1983 RTS had the 6V-71 as well the 1981 buses (except 1288-1317, 2281-2300 which had 6V-92TA). All others at NYCTA had the 6V-92TA until the Series 50 came along.
Wayne
Wayne, that's good to know; are the Series 50s any good in those later models? We have Series 50 engines in our 1994 Gilligs and they were such crap that our new order came in with Cummins ISLs, which are nice, smooth, great-sounding inline sixes. In fact, they remind me a lot of our 91 Gilligs with the 6v92s. Any word on how well an RTS performs with the ISL?
-F.
So that explains why 2287 from FP had the 92 engine while a younger sister might have the 71. I'm so glad someone cleared that up for me.
Oh yes. 2281-2300 were originally assigned to MABSTOA's Kingsbridge depot and I used to chase them down every chance I got. At the time someone at KB wrote the word "Turbo" next to the fleet number (on the interior) on these buses.
Then of course the 1982 buses had the 6V-92TA engines and then to my suprise (and disappiontment) the 1983 buses arrived with the DD 6V-71N engine.
Wayne
Ahh, the 1983 RTS GMC's sucked anyway(esp. the 3009)
Really? I didn't know that. The last time I saw 2287, circa 1987, she was working the Q55 route. I lived in Richmond Hill at the time, so she was a frequent visitor to 117/Jamaica Av. What I don't undertand is why one order of buses came with the 71, while another came with the 92. It's obvious the 92 is the better choice. It's quieter and delivers better acceleration.
I would say that was probably due to bid amount. Perhaps NYC wanted to save some money that year. Remember, this was 1983, when our country had gotten a feel of what to expect with Reaganomics. Overall, I like both engines but can see where you're coming from. Going from the 92s to the 71 does seem a bit backwards.
-F.
My guess is that at the time of the order, the 92 must have been an extra cost option with the 71 being standard. Your point is taken.
That's what I was thinking; after all, many TAs chose to stick with the older 6v71 in their Flx Metro and RTS orders through the late 1980s, especially smaller agencies. That is the powerplant found in Blacksburg Transit's 1986-87 Flx Metro Bs and 1989 RTSes.
-F.
i believe it will be at Yukon for a LOOOONNNG time to come. i dont understand why they did not take 3800's from Edgewater Storeage and put them at Yukon instead.
The area I live in is serviced by Los Angeles MTA. They have what I think of as a traditional transfer system. When one boards a bus he pays a base fare of $1.35, and if he wants to continue his trip he has to purchase a transfer when boarding for an additional $0.25, if he wants to continue on a third bus he must again pay $0.25 for the second transfer. The transfers are dated and the issuing line is identified along with the direction of travel, and an expiration time of about one to two hours. The transfers cannot be used on the same bus line, or to return in the direction from which he arrived (although most B/Os do not check closely). This is basically the same system I have known in several cities over the past 50 years.
Last week I had occasion to ride buses in the neighboring counties of San Bernardino, Riverside, and Orange. They have a system that was new to me. They charge a base cash fare of $1.00 to board a bus, and have no single trip transfers. Instead, each sells a daily pass on the bus for $2.50 which allows the passenger unlimited rides during that day on the system's regular buses (Orange County has a couple of premium services with an extra charge), plus a free transfer for one bus ride on a neighboring bus system. Obviously anyone knowing he was going to ride more than two buses during the day would buy the day pass.
I am wondering if this alternate system is popular in other areas of the country. I can see where it makes it easier for the B/O not having to issue and inspect single trip transfers, but I suspect there is some loss of revenue if daily pass purchasers give or sell their passes (not legal) to someone else when done with them.
BTW I have just mentioned the fares for a casual user. All the systems mentioned also have monthly passes and discounted fares for seniors and disabled, which I have not described.
Another interesting difference between the LAMTA and the others is the other systems have "Bus Books" on the buses for the passengers to take which contain maps and schedules of all their routes (Orange County's is 192 pages) which makes planning trips much easier for the transit dependent. LAMTA relies on separate pamphlets with a single line schedule and map which, along with pamphlets for connecting lines is supposed to be available on the bus, but often is not there.
Tom
Vancouver has an even better system - when you board, you pay the regular cash fare and get a free transfer, good for two hours of unlimited rides on any route, including the one you got it on.
>>> you pay the regular cash fare and get a free transfer, good for two hours of unlimited rides on any route, including the one you got it on. <<<
Does Vancouver have a POP system? What you describe is how the San Francisco Muni system works, although technically the transfer is good for only two subsequent rides, but is never checked by the subsequent operators. All those paying with cash get the transfer to act as proof of payment in the event of any fare inspection.
Tom
I remember New Years eve 1999, Ride-On and Metrobus gave out free transfers. Do they do this every year? i know that during normal times, you have to pay an extra 10 cents.
In 1997 New York swtiched from the old style system you describe (paper tear off transfers good only on specific routes) to an electronic MetroCard system that finally united the bus and subway systems. For $4 a rider can purchase a one day unlimited card that allows rides on any subway or local bus in the five boroughs and neighboring Nassau County. It's good till 3:00 AM the following day.
If you board a bus and pay a single $1.50 cash or token fare, you get a paper, electronic transfer that is good only another bus for a two hour period. So the $4 unlimited card is a super deal!
>>> For $4 a rider can purchase a one day unlimited card
....
If you board a bus and pay a single $1.50 cash or token fare, you get a paper, electronic transfer that is good only another bus for a two hour period <<<
If you can purchase the $4.00 daily pass on the bus, and can still get a single transfer with one fare, it sounds like New York has the best of both systems for their riders.
Tom
The $4 one day unlimited MetroCard (called "FunPass") cannot be bought on a bus or from a subway token booth clerk. You must purchase it from one of many newsstands and convenience stores that are authorized MetroCard dealers, or from vending machines now found in many subway stations. One other good point - the Fun Pass is not activated until its first use (dipped on a bus farebox or swiped through a subway turnstile). So you can buy cards in advance and they don't expire if you don't use 'em the day you buy 'em. The card does expire 12-15 months later if not used.
>>> The $4 one day unlimited MetroCard (called "FunPass") cannot be bought on a bus or from a subway token booth clerk. <<<
That is a serious drawback for the casual user, especially if he is a stranger in town and therefore is unfamiliar with where "FunPasses" are sold. The day passes in Riverside and Orange Counties (CA) are really no more than simplified paper transfers. The Riverside one has 31 numbered squares, and three months so the proper month and date is punched out by the operator. The Orange County day pass is just a small piece of paper (serialized) with the date on it. Presumably operators are given a supply when they go on duty each day and have to account for the number gone from their supply at the end of their day. In San Bernardino County the operator punches in a button and a day pass with a magnetic stripe and the issuing bus number, date and time spits out of the fare box. Whenever that pass is used it is inserted into a slot on the fare box and automatically read for validity, and presumably the transit company gets a record of how often the passes are used. In all cases the price of the passes is deposited in the fare box.
The New York FunPass seems more similar to the San Francisco one and three day Passports which are aimed at tourists only, and have no discount price for disabled or elderly. In the three Southern California counties, there are discounted day passes for disabled and elderly roughly equivalent to (in Orange, better than) the discounts on cash fares.
Tom
Not really a drawback. New York is not Southern California! The merchants who sell MetroCards are all over the place, and the vending machines are now in most major subway stations. So it's easy to obtain a FunPass. And while the FunPass is aimed at tourists, that is hardly its only market. New York City residents and suburbanites in town who are travelling extensively during one day find the FunPass a major covenience and a great deal. New York's transit network is dense and huge. The FunPass is good in every borough. I can't be 100% sure, but I would guess that bus service in Riverside or San Bernardino or Orange Counties is similar to that in New York's smallest borough, Staten Island. By contrast, in Manhattan some heavy bus routes have 4 minute headways even on Sundays, and most subway lines run on at least ten minute headways over the weekend.
>>> Not really a drawback. New York is not Southern California! The merchants who sell MetroCards are all over the place <<<
I checked out the MTA site for MetoCard sales locations, and it is true that there are many, but it is obvious that purchasing on a bus would be even more convenient. Also I noticed that there is no discounted FunPass, so a person eligible for the reduced rate must take six trips in a day rather than three before the pass is of any benefit. The MTA seems to be in a confused state with its fare policy since some fares for the same price do allow transfers between train and bus, and others do not. I found it interesting that the MTA site made no mention of the ability to pay a fare on a bus with cash. From the site, it appears that the only way to pay is with some type of MetroCard.
When I went to San Francisco at the end of August I wanted to purchase a daily pass and was advised there was a place that sold them in the same terminal my Greyhound bus arrived at. The Greyhound arrived on a Saturday at 6:45 A.M. and the first local bus I wanted to take was scheduled for 7:15 A.M. The newsstand in the bus terminal which sold the passes did not open until 8:00 A.M. Looking up and down the streets of downtown San Francisco at that hour I was unable to discern any open establishment which might be selling daily passes. I suspect if I were plopped down in Bensonhurst or somewhere beyond the end of the subways in Queens at 6:00 A.M. on a Saturday or Sunday morning I might have the same problem.
When I arrived in Riverside, it was from a Metrolink train (similar to LIRR), and there was nothing besides a park and ride lot within walking distance of the station except the bus stop. I could see convenience stores about a half mile away, but I would hate to have to walk that half mile to buy a bus pass.
Both San Francisco and New York make a distinction between sales on the vehicles and pass sales and include the daily passes in the latter. The three Southern California counties, have moved the daily pass into the same category as single fare rides sold on the bus with discounts similar to single fare discounts. They still sell monthly passes off the buses.
>>> I can't be 100% sure, but I would guess that bus service in Riverside or San Bernardino or Orange Counties is similar to that in New York's smallest borough, Staten Island. <<<
Well these counties are less populated than New York City, but not quite equivalent to Staten Island. Take a look at these comparative statistics. All of New York City is only 303 sq. miles, less than 1/10th the area of Los Angeles County with similar populations. Naturally the denser population favors mass transit.
Staten Island: 58 Sq. miles; Population 443,000;. Density: 7,651/ sq. mile
Manhattan: 23 Sq. miles; Population 1.5 million; Density: 66,835/ sq. mile
Bronx: 42 Sq. miles; Population: 1.3 million; Density: 31,730/ sq. mile
Brooklyn: 71 Sq. miles; Population: 2.5 million; Density: 34,723/ sq. mile
Queens: 109 Sq. miles; Population 2.2 Million; Density: 20,453/ sq. mile
Orange County: 789 Sq. miles; Population 2.8 million; Density: 3,608/ sq. mile
Riverside County: 7,200 Sq. miles; Population 1.5 million; Density: 214/ sq. mile
San Bernardino County: 20,000 Sq. miles; Population: 1.7 million; Density: 85/ sq. mile
Los Angeles County: 4,000 Sq. miles; Population: 9.5 million; Density: 2,344/ sq. mile
(All figures from http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/)
The density figures for the California counties may be misleading because all contain large tracts of uninhabited desert and/or mountain areas.
>>> in Manhattan some heavy bus routes have 4 minute headways even on Sundays, and most subway lines run on at least ten minute headways over the weekend. <<<
Short headways are much easier in a compact area. In a 23 sq. mile area such as Manhattan, a cross town bus line is only a few miles long, and therefore short headways do not require as many buses as one like the Orange County bus line from Long Beach to San Clemente which is more than 50 miles long.
Tom
You'll understand better when you come to NY. NYC bus drivers have never sold any fare media - Metrocards, tokens, tickets, etc. On a bus, you can pay with cash (coins only including dollar coins), tokens, or Metrocard. When paying with coin or token the transfer is provied automatically from the fare box - driver doesn't need to tear anything from a pad. Since Metrocard sales merchants and subway stations are always nearby the absence of onboard sales is not an issue. Subways require a token or Metrocard but manned sales booths and/or vending machines are available in every station 24/7.
The FunPass is already discounted so there's no need to offer it reduced for persons who might otherwise use the 1/2 fare feature for elderly and disabled riders. For $4 you have the entire five borough system at your disposal for up to 24 hours - really a super deal. Any local bus, any subway, the Staten Island Railway (the ferry to S.I. is free). Remember, three regular fares is already $4.50.
>>> Since Metrocard sales merchants and subway stations are always nearby the absence of onboard sales is not an issue. <<<
Of course that means that the new arrival to the city (the proverbial hick from the sticks) must know about the existence of the FunPass before attempting to board a bus. And it certainly is an issue to any disabled person who finds it impossible to go up and down a staircase, and for whom every extra step is painful. Having to find a MetroCard sales merchant before boarding a bus becomes an added difficulty. As noted below, a disabled person is less likely to use a FunPass anyway, since he has to anticipate taking more than five trips to be cost effective.
>>> The FunPass is already discounted so there's no need to offer it reduced for persons who might otherwise use the ½ fare feature for elderly and disabled riders. For $4 you have the entire five borough system at your disposal for up to 24 hours - really a super deal <<<
I never suggested that a FunPass was not a good deal for doing a lot of travel in one day. I was comparing it to systems in which it always cost less than three fares, and could be bought on board. How can you say the FunPass is already discounted? For a full fare rider the cost is 2 2/3 fares. For a disabled rider, it is 5 1/3 fares. A full fare person planning to make five trips gets a substantial benefit from the FunPass, the disabled rider does not. When I was in San Francisco I opted not to buy a daily pass when I finally found a place to purchase one, because the cost was $6.00 and the disabled cash fare was 35¢ which provided an unlimited transfer good for 2 hours. At that rate, I could ride 24 hours for a total cash fare of $4.20. With 30 day cards there is not the same discrimination. The disabled 30 day card is half the price of the regular one.
Tom
I guess I can't convince you that the FunPass is a great deal!
But note the following:
Anytime I travel to another city I try to check the appropriate transit system website so I know exactly what types of fares and fare media are offerred. Know before you go! The MTA website lists every MetroCard merchant including those at the airports.
Anytime a person is debating whether or not to use an unlimited type day or tourist pass, he/she needs to determine the # of rides to be taken and in what time frame. Only then can an intelligent decision be made. My own experience is that the unlimited types passes are good values, even if individual fares would be the same, if only for the convenience and peace of mind from not worrying about a
per ride fare media card expiring or carrying exact change for bus fares.
If you travel to NY and buy a FunPass you'll understand exactly what I mean. The density of transit services here is unmatched. I would guess that certain heavy bus routes in NY (e.g., M15, M101, B41, BX12) each carry more people in a week than some routes in Riverside or San Bernardino carry in a year.
>>> I guess I can't convince you that the FunPass is a great deal! <<<
Why do you think you have to convince me that a FunPass is a great deal? I fully understand how a FunPass works and how extensive the New York City transit system is.
If you go back to the start of the thread, you will note that in my initial post I was contrasting the three California counties who have substituted day passes for traditional transfers with traditional transfer systems. I pointed out that LAMTA was a traditional system that had transfers. Most traditional systems have some sort of pass system, either monthly, weekly, or a discount for regular commuting. Some traditional systems such as New York and San Francisco do offer a daily pass, but they offer is as part of the pass system, and it is purchased in a similar manner as any other time based pass at a remote location from the transit vehicle. The difference in these three systems (and DART as was pointed out by Q46 Nova RTS#9288) is that the daily pass is offered as an alternative to paying a single fare to every rider boarding a bus, rather than a transfer. This amounts to a change in the basic philosophy of fare collection, just as POP is different than traditional entry fare control in subways. My original query was how extensive this change of philosophy was throughout the country.
New York is somewhat unique since it still takes cash fares on buses, but only tokens and electronic cards of one type or other in the subways. (The token booths and MVM's are outside the subway itself.) It is doing the best it can to integrate its surface transit with the trains, but is not yet complete since except with MetroCards, the transfers between the two modes of transport are not uniform.
>>> Anytime I travel to another city I try to check the appropriate transit system website so I know exactly what types of fares and fare media are offerred. Know before you go! The MTA website lists every MetroCard merchant including those at the airports. <<<
That indicates that you are a sophisticated computer literate user of transportation services which must be contrasted to the casual user who gets on a bus and asks the operator "Does this bus go to Main Street, and how much is the fare?"
Here in Los Angeles County you can find yourself using another bus system with different fares and rules quite easily. Within twenty miles of me, in Los Angeles County, besides the LAMTA there are bus systems run by the following cities: Norwalk, Whittier, Commerce, Montebello, Long Beach, Torrance, and Santa Monica. I am sure there are others that I am not even aware of. Because I have an MTA monthly pass I use their buses whenever possible, but if my travels (which may not be completely planned at the beginning of the day) take me into an area where another city has service (there are 88 cities in Los Angeles County), it might be more convenient to take a local bus. In that case, I do not have a chance to check it out in advance.
Tom
[For $4 you have the entire five borough system at your disposal for up to 24 hours - really a super deal.]
Don't forget that the Fun Pass is also good on L I Bus. So you have Nassau County at your disposal in addition to the five boroughs of NYC. For a bus fan especially, it is a super deal!
it is. i was able to go from brooklyn to huntington via MTA and LI bus. Its a shame that Suffolk doesnt participate in this tranfer deal.
I remmeber the CTA in Chicago had those fare machines, and so does Palm Tran in Florida. Pretty cool. I hear that SEPTA at least wants to replace their ancient machines. Do they just recycle them from retired buses or something like that? Anyway, using the card system reduces the ammount of trash that the driver has to deal with (tearing up the transfers and putting them in baggies). Anyway, there should be more token sales locations in the suburbs.
DART First State as of May 21 of this year have stoped Transfers use and if passengers is useing MORE then 1 or 2 Buses. They have to buy a Daily Pass. BUT They have a DartCARD that have $$ on it and could be used to pay the bus fare and also to buy a Daily Pass.
>>> They have a DartCARD that have $$ on it and could be used to pay the bus fare and also to buy a Daily Pass. <<<
That is really no more than a debit card. My local bus company (Norwalk, CA) with four lines, 60¢ fares, 5¢ local transfers, and no monthly passes offers a similar card so it is not necessary to carry exact change. The card provides no discount on fares. I find it easier to keep a supply of change on hand than to find a place that can refill the debit card (and pay to go there). I would use the debit card if I were trying to keep track of the amount I spent on riding for tax purposes.
Tom
P.S. What city were you referring to in your post?
DART First State is in Delaware. And runs Transit Service Statewide with Bus Routes that run in Diffent Countys and there's a FEW Routes that are Inter-County Routes that run MCI Buses.
The DART First State Fares are by County and Inter-County Service.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DART First State Fares.
*New Castle County Bus Fares. Cash Fare: $1.15. Daily Pass: $2.40.
*Kent and Sussex County's Fares. Cash Fare: Zone 1: $1.00. Zone 2: $2.00. Daily Pass: Zone1: $2.10. Zone2: $4.20.
*Inter-county Routes(301 and 305). Cash Fare: Zone1:$1.50. Zone2:$3.00. Zone3:$4.50. Zone4:$6.00. Zone5:$7.50. Daily Pass: Zone1:$3.15. Zone2:$6.30. Zone3-Zone5: $9.45.
Exact Fare is Requared when paying CASH Fares and you could even use the DARTCard on any route. And the daily pass could be use on any routes for 1-Zone. Daily Pass for 2 Zones are good for routes that are 2 Zones and Daily Pass that are good for 3 Zones and over are "ANYWHERE PASS" that you could ride the DART First State systrem statewide and the Daily Pass have Unlimited Rides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I loved the SF Muni when I was in SF this summer. I paid student fare $.35 and got a free transfer and took an additional 3 rides, making my net for each ride aprox. $.09! You can't beat that with a stick!
Now for Tom, here is a great thing I do when I just need to go somewhere in the city and come back home. Say for example you are on 6th & 14th take a bus uptown to your destination (paying with metrocard) well say 6th & 42nd, now use the same metrocard to get on the train to go from 42nd back to 14th costing you only $1.50 round trip. Considering the price of cabs that is a great fare. Lastly don't forget that a transfer as long as it is not a paper bus transfer will let you from the bus to the train and vise versa so $1.50 should be your fare one way if you plan a little.
Mike
"Mr Mass Transit"
>>> take a bus uptown to your destination (paying with metrocard) well say 6th & 42nd, now use the same metrocard to get on the train to go from 42nd back to 14th costing you only $1.50 round trip. <<<
That's kind of a quirk in the system good only in certain areas. It would not work if you were traveling from Times Square to Flushing, or Coney Island.
Tom
Thats why I said only if your staying in the city because for the most part any subway station has a connection to a bus.
Mike
"Mr Mass Transit"
But it would work if you're going from Times Square to Canarsie. The B42 stops inside fare control at Rockaway Parkway, so not only does the bus transfer consume the free MetroCard transfer, but a passenger who boards the B42 and transfers to the L train is treated as a bus farepayer and is entitled to a transfer back into the subway.
Last night a buddy and I drove into the Big A for a card of professional boxing. A 20 foot ring was set up on the second floor between the betting windows and the staircase that leads up to the grandstand.
When we left, instead of going NW to the Rockaway Parkway exit we followed an interior road that snaked north, then east and then south to an exit on to the street that is the eastern edge of the park. Stored behind what might be the Home Depot were some RTS's. It was 10:30PM, very dark and hard to see the numbers.
I figured that they are the Jet-Away buses that go from the lots to the grandstand. What I don't understand is why are the buses there since Belmont and not the Big A is in session now ? What buses are these and what is running at Belmont ?
Last I knew 1322 was at Aqueduct.
I remember riding 1459 at Belmont a year ago.
1218 1248 and 2492 are at Belmont too.
Can anyone clarify for sure?
#1459 Jetway Transit
They were also there on a saturday or sunday afternoon a couple months as i visited a computer show at the big A.
It's possible they are just stored there when not being used at Belmont.
Can we take the M-60 bus from Lagurdia airport into manhattan and get off at Lexington Ave and transfer to another bus going south or the subway to 51st?
How long do you think this will take? It will be around 9-10 am in the morning, if this makes a difference.
Thanks for the info in advance.
shouldnt take u more than a hour or so-depending on traffic on the bridge. but be warned, they are doing spot checks on cars on bridges, so it might take longer. my advice when u get off at 125th And Lexington Avenue, take either the M98 or the M101. Both are limited buses and makes less stops along lexington avenue. you will also pass by the new 100th street depot and check it's progress.
hope this helps
B68-#860-New Flyer
Take the Q33 to Roosevelt Avenue EFGQ station instead. E or F will take you right to 51(53) and Lex. May take you about 40 minutes. If you have a lot of bags you may get frowned upon though either way you go at 9 or 10 am.
You may end up sitting on the M60 on the bridge for hours at just about anyime nowadays.
And BTW, thanks for visiting our little town....
Another way: take the M60 to 31st and Hoyt Avenue (just before getting on the Triboro Bridge), at the Neptune Diner. Go upstairs to the el and take the W train to Lexington Ave. (first stop in Manhattan). At that stop, go upstairs one level and take #6 train downtown one stop to 51st St. Probably faster than going to Manhattan over the Triboro because you're actually going northward for a while on the bridge. And if you have a Metrocard it's a free transfer so buy one at a newsstand at LaGuardia before you leave the airport. And if you're hungry the Neptune is a classic New York Greek diner where you can grab a bite and get on the subway without crossing the street.
If you take the M60 across the Triboro into Manhattan, get off at IRT #4/5/6 Station at 125 and Lexington and take #6 train downtown to 51st St.
Dave, while I support your general objective of keeping this board free of extraneous and off-topic discussion, I think pulling down the airstrike thread at a time like this was a bit tactless.
C
I saw 015110 at Westmoreland Circle on the 29 and 015104 at Friendship Heights signed NOT IN SERVICE but I assume about to run on the 42, just before 6 this evening. They seem to be coming in. I saw one yesterday, too but didn't catch the number.
What kind of buses are these?
These are Ride-On's new "mid-sized" buses . . . they're based on International commercial-truck chassis. They're sized somewhere between the little van-based shuttles, like my namesake, and the full-sized buses like Gilligs and Orions. The first appeared in service in late August. They appear to have the ride height and headroom of full-size buses.
C
There is another kind as well.
This morning, I saw 015208 at Grosvenor. Naturally, it came just as I sat down on the 37 and I had scanned the whole area for buses. This looked like something that is operated by ATE/Ryder. I also saw 015105 on the 36 at Seven Locks and River Road.
Someone said that the WMATA 30 Foot Flxibles that run with the Ride On Paint job. Someone said that they in the NEW WMATA Paint Job. So could Ride On took over those routes that WMATA run for Ride On?
Ride-On picked up some trolley-buses for the Bethesda-8 trolley, previously served by the 516X/517X 30-foot Metro-Bs. I think they're now operated by Ride-On instead of under contract to WMATA. The Metro-Bs are reportedly now back in WMATA service inside of DC sporting the new paint scheme.
C
So the trolley buses are the buses that look like old time trolleys, right, not electric trolley buses, which, now that i think about it, might have been interesting to see in the DC area.
Yeah, they're "trolley replica" buses, powered by regular engines. DC has never had trackless trolleys . . . its last streetcars ran in 1962, WMATA was formed from the remains of DC and Capital Transit in the late '60s, and the catenary's all gone now. (A few streets in Georgetown still have trolley tracks inlaid.)
Chris
As per a management friend of mines out at Ride-On there is 40+ new Orion 05.502 (35 Foot by 102 Wide) Buses coming sometime soon. They will be diesel units. Keep your eyes peeled!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Would these be replacing the 30 foot Gillig Phantoms? Those are probably about 13 or 14 years old by now.
That is a new thing. They hadn't put this on their website. I can't find the thing about the buses replacing the contractor anymore but the Orion order is something separate, I imagine.
Yes, this is for the Actual Ride-On Fleet, not that Ryder/ATE Contract shit!
Regards,
T.
The ATE/Ryder Contract is soon to be ended. The 5100s and 5200s are to put an end to it.
Ride-On has information on the new buses that they get?
Look @ the county press releases. I think that is where I found it.
what about the new minis that have no destination signs with a rideon stick 53xx
Ugh, international Chassises-that must mean that the ride must be very bumpy on those vehicles. Do they have the engine out in front like the other minis. Also, are they county owned or contractor owned?
Yeah, they do have the engine out front . . . the whole front clip from the International is there. But I think they probably still ride better than the smaller Ford-based shuttles.
I think they're actually county owned. There's no Ryder/ATE sticker on the side, and the buses have a complete paint job, not just a couple decals like the ATE buses. Plus they're well maintained and carry a Ride-On unit number (0151XX). (The ATE buses are always scuffed and dented and don't have a Ride-On number.)
Chris
County owned.
When is NJT gonna get rid of the Volvo`s? SEPTA junked theirs in 2000 when the NEOPLANS came on-line. Will NJT replace them? With other artics? or with those 45 ft MCI cruisers? How about the transits in Newark? Will artics replace these buses? My inquiring mind wants to know.
I heard something about the articulateds soon to be replaced with New Flyer artics.
I have some new photos including I think the first photos of Lakeland's D4000 Cruisers. You have to copy and paste the URLs.
The First one is Lakeland 8706
http://www.geocities.com/njt4148/Lakeland8706.jpg
The next one is a side view. I don't have the number.
http://www.geocities.com/njt4148/LakelandD4000view.jpg
The next one is my old Greyhound MC-8(Hot Wheels)redone for NJT
http://www.geocities.com/njt4148/NJTmc8toy.jpg
The last one is: When did the 79 serve Dover? There is some residue from the MCM2 covering on it.
http://www.geocities.com/njt4148/NJTbuserror.jpg
Cool photos, NJSTA. Interesting that Lakeland's D4000s have circular taillights . . . are those LED units? Can't tell from the photo.
Nice work on the model.
Chris
ALL the NJT D4000/4500s have round LED taillights. They couldn't use the standard MCI D-series taillights anyway because they would not have fit on the special 96-inch D4000s. The CNG MCIs of NJT do have the standard lighting, but NJT opted for the LEDs on the large order.
I got it today on the T2. I noticed for the first time that it has surveilance cameras on board. It's still "silver". I am pretty sure the color on the paint they used for that thing is some really light blue since thats what that thing looks like under the canopy at Friendship Heights. Its color seems to change based on the amount of light. Sometimes it is a blue-gray, other times sky blue, and on rare occasions, silver.
Will NJT buy low floor buses? With MTA and SEPTA and DART having or getting LF's it seems to me that NJT is behind the times.
If anything, I would say that NJ Transit is damn wise for not buying low floors! All too many transit systems jump on the low floor bandwagon, sometimes without realizing that standard floor buses might actually be better suited to their needs! This is why WMATA, for instance, is now buying both standard floor and low floor buses. The complete opposite end of the extreme is here at the University of Michigan, where Parking & Transportation has commited to go 100% low floor. Here, it makes absolutely no sense at all. First, because our buses often run extremely overcrowded and we cannot afford to lose any capacity, second, because there is only a single regular disabled rider (out of 15000-20000 daily riders) who does not even use the buses every day and virtually no elderly riders at all. Low floor buses make ZERO sense for a transportation operation like U of M, but the idiots running the system here are just jumping on the bandwagon.
Wise transit systems know that just because low floors are 'new and cool,' standard floor buses still have their uses. Perhaps NJ Transit could effectively employ low floors on some urban routes, but that will forever be a primarily standard floor system. I don't know about you, but I would MUCH prefer a standard floor bus on a long-distance freeway run in NJ.
there are disadvantages for low floor buses. especially in snow. most of the low floors that operate in brooklyn from Jackie Gleason were NOT running in the snow that fell on new years eve. thats about 190 buses out of service. I expect that low floor buses can work in cities that have no snow(las vegas)-but basically, thats it.
In my LTS system, I kept most of the older standard floor 40ft buses in the fleet and the standard floor mini buses to replace the low floor DLR40s and the DM2701LFs in the winter when it snows.
What are you talking about?
This all sounds like it might be interesting, but you will have to explain further before I understand...
I don't see any need for them. All NJT busses are leaning busses and all have ADA compliance with wheelchairlifts. What is the need for low floors if the current fleet is pretty much up to date. With the exception of lines that use the Flxbles ie. 13,39 etc.
Mike
"Mr Mass Transit"
I haven't really seen a Flxible on the 13 or 39 in recent years. Most of those runs use the Volvo artics (which will be replaced in about 2 years), and even those are w/c accessible. Plus, the remaining Flxibles at Big Tree are already w/c accessible.
Nearly 2/3 of the Flxible Metro B Suburbans are not w/c lift equipped, and those buses are slated to be retired within the next 2-3 years.
Metro D's run fairly often on the #13, particularly on Sundays, when ridership is lower.
I typed the wrong thing I was confused sorry for the misunderstanding.
Mike
"Mr Mass Transit"
Does anyone know the exact reroutings???
ive seen bus terminals at the 58th street ferry, yet i have not seen b11 buses operate there. mostly,b11 terminates at 58th st and 1st av. i think they should go to the ferry.
B64-#7533
I just realized that if the MTA-NYCT ordered NABI's, they would look like the MTA Baltimore NABI's but instead of the black windows, more of a white trim on the outside. To get a good look of those NABI's, check out Transitalk.com and go to the Major Transit picture page and look for MTA Baltimore. Also, go to the link section and check out the "Baltimore Archives page"
Ray Clendenin
www.transitalk.com
Of course, the question is, would you really want NABI's?!?
Working as an Operator for MTA here in Baltimore and Running the Baltimore Transit Archives Site, I've found myself becoming less and less enchanted with the NABIs. They are nicely powered, with the Cummins ME-11 Engines, but the workmanship of some of the orders leaves a little to be desired: knobs that come off in your hand with just a touch, air bags that blow out early, and oh, the water leaks (they'll sometimes give you a second shower when you pull one out of the lane for the first time following an overnight rain!).
The 2000 order appears to be an improvement, especially in regard the the security of the knobs and switches, but here, MTA has decided against going back to NABI, it took us nearly 9 months to finally accept a mere 80 bus order. In 1971, when we got 370 Fishbowls, they were on the street in an average of 2 weeks!
Nambis are ugli, atleast the ones here on Valley Metro In Phoenix.
This beautiful paperback book was published by Price Stern & Sloan. (Penguin Putnam) It is NOW OUT OF PRINT. It includes over 30 different projects using NYC MetroCards. Games, magic tricks, toys. Great for kids from 8 to adult. Autographed by author at buyer¹s request. To order send $7 each + $3.00 (s&h) (outside USA $6.00 s&h) in US money, check or money order made out to: Michael Makman. Send order to: Professor Putter PO Box 755, Planet Station New York , NY 10024-0539
Hello everyone; this is off-topic, but I wanted to remind everyone that today, October 9, is what would have been the late John Lennon's birthday. While I realize this is not bus-related, we should all remember him as he contributed greatly to music and the arts in his very short time on this Earth.
Also, John Lennon became somewhat of a "native" New Yorker; in his later years, he moved to NYC with his wife Yoko Ono and later raised his son Sean there. Despite constant flak from Nixon and the FBI early on, Lennon triumphed and fell in love with the Big Apple. Also, his final album, Double Fantasy, was recorded there in 1980, the same year that the Grummans came to town. Unfortunately, he was slain there not long after in a senseless act, but his legend lives on as his music is enjoyed by many, in New York and all over the world, and will continue to influence popular culture for many years to come.
To John Lennon, we salute you. Happy Birthday.
Your fan,
Fred Donaher
To make it easy, name the steeet it is on, and what bus routes pass by it.
The QV depot is on 222nd street between Hempstead and Jamaica Avenues. You can take the Q2 to 223 Street, but it's a slightly shorter walk if you take the Q36.
Queens Village Depot
97-11 222nd Street
Queens Village, New York
11428
Q36 to 222nd Street and Jamaica Avenue.
Q1, Q88, Q27, Q83 to Queens Village LIRR Station, then Q36 to 222nd Street, or walk 3 blocks east.
N24 to Jamaica Avenue and 222nd Street.
From 222nd Street and Jamaica Avenue, walk 2 blocks south. Entrance to depot is just past the LIRR overpass on your left side. Enter depot from 97th Avenue.
http://www.qvdepot.com
Does anyone know what happened to Long Beach RTS #156? I saw it parked across the street from the depot for the longest time, and suddenly on October 4th it vanished. I know it wasn't in the greatest of shape, but I would have thought for sure the city of Long Beach would have kept that bus, being that they were the original owners, and #156 was the only RTS they had. Does anyone have any info.?
Thanks
Qtraindash7 said that he saw #156 at the Garage And it was after 10/4 he saw it. It's maybe parked on the other side of the Garage? And do any body know the roster on buses in Long Beach/ And do they have Flxibles?
They used to have (and may still...) Flxibles. They were model 35096-6-1, which were 30-footers. They were numbered 148-155, and were put in service in 1977.
What they had before that, I do not know, have never seen anything listed anywhere.
Then came 156, the one and only RTS, a 35-footer.
I have no information on 157-158.
Gillig Phantoms start at 159-162 (first delivery in 10/87), 163-166 in 1990.
I don't know if there are any subsequent deliveries from Gillig, nothing showing in the info I have (of course, thanks to some unscrupulous bus fans, Gillig is now VERY stingy with giving out info any more...)
It's possible 156 is in hiding someplace. I took a good look at it a few weeks ago and noticed the drivers' side window smashed, and quite a few body panels damaged. I just hope it wasn't scrapped.
I can say with certainty that Long Beach no longer has the 1977 30-foot Flxibles. I know Long Beach had '77 30-foot Flx's as did Huntington Area Rapid Transit (and HART Buses 210 and 211 from that series are still in existence).
Before Long Beach started with the Flx's they were using 30-foot GMC fishbowls. Does anybody out there remember fishbowl #140 or #142? One of those two buses were painted with a beach theme.
Thanks
Where are Hart Bus #210 and #211 today. Would love to get a picture of my namesake before Nimco gets them. #201-#211 were the first new buses purchased by the Town of Huntington when the system was set up. Buses 101-103 were Fishbowls acquired from (IIRC) Northport Bus Company and repainted into the white/gold livery.
FWIW Northport Bus then went out of business.
If anyone is interested I will try to get a current roster of buses that HART has.
I believe that 301,302 & 303 are Orion I's
400 Series are Gilligs
500 Series are Orion V
600 Series are Orion V
There are also some airporter type vehicles used for handicapped and senior services.
there are no orion V operating via HART. the 500's are Gillig's as well as the 600's. Orion V operate in Suffolk Transit as well as gilligs do. i know Suffolk used to operate Flix 30-foot metros. do anyone know if these are still running?
B1-#9103-NOVABUS
b64-#9323-NOVABUS
Does anyone know the status of this order of new artics? There's not even a mention on the county's or Bee Line's websites. Back in January I saw a filthy all white Neoplan Artic coming off the Deegan onto and across E 233 street by Woodlawn Cemetery. The bus continued all the way up to White Plains Rd, where I lost sight of it (I was on the BX16 bus). I assumed it was for the county.
Joe C
You will have to wait til December to see them.
~~Kevin
LL Express Driver
Unless, it comes back to Honey Brook for some strange reason... Then I might see it again before you guys do in Westchester... =)
Routing from the RR Station at White Plains via Water St,Lexington Av ,Main St,South Broadway ,Martine Avenue,Martin Luthor King Blvd,Water St,Lexington Av Right into the Terminal
THe New Route 74
A friend asked me this question:
Is there a general information number for The TA Employment Dept at 1250 Bway??
I think it's like 212-268-????
They are trying to check out what list number they are up from an exam they took some time ago.
You should call The Department of Citywide Administrative Services (DCAS) at 2 Washington Street. The number is in the Chief each week.
The Chief is a civil service weekly newspaper availanle at many newsstands- especially in Manhattan and cost 50 cents.
Are they making any progress on the Coliseum Depot? It looks like it did 3 months ago. At that rate 100 Street will be finished before Coliseum is done. Thanking all responses in advance
Progress is slow, but visible. It looks as if it will be finished by next year.
This morning during my travels, I saw Green Bus Orion 5508 resting on the lawn with a fresh paint job, complete with painted tires. This afternoon, I also saw Command Bus MCI 476 headed southbound for the highway. She didn't have a fresh coat of paint, so I'm wondering where she was coming from. Maybe she was returning from a charter run in the area.
and what area would that be?
Saw 015116 on the 27 at Little Falls Parkway and Arlington Road heading to Medical Center at 4:55, the highest number sighted so far. Second highest is 5110 so I assume 5111 through 5115 are around the county somewhere. The bus was empty although in service. I am wondering if Ride-On is actually operating their new equipment on the 27 regularly, since it probably has one of the lowest riderships.
I was at the University of Maryland's main campus in College Park yesterday and saw they had a shuttle bus system. It was quite interesting. The buses were mostly 30 foot Flxible Metro Bs, painted red, the school color. I saw one Gillig Phantom with an orange Balios sign and one 40 foot Metro-B. WMATA Route C8 runs through the campus too. I saw one Orion V and one Orion VI running it. I could have gotten a photo but I couldn't get my camera out and into position in time.
After I got home, I went to the website for the shuttle (www.umd.edu/shuttle) and read the shuttles are operated by the students. Seems rather interesting. Shuttle use is restricted to students with ID. I would think the shuttles would be open to anyone, or at least those to the Metro, Cole Field House, Byrd Stadium, and the Comcast Center (when it opens) would be. Then again, Cole Field and Byrd were right near the center of the campus. The Comcast Center is further, but I am not sure where.
I'm suprised you're just discovering U of MD's shuttle. The 35 foot Gilligs you saw are brand spanking new. I believe they have only 2 40 foot Metro B's, but plenty of 35 footers with both the Cummins L-10 and Detroit Diesel 6V-92TA. If you're ever in downtown Silver Spring you can see them operating to/from the Metro station and of course you'll see many along US route 1 in College Park and in parts of Hyattsville. I believe they do have one route that's not restricted to students w/ID.
Wayne
I think I knew they had a shuttle system but didn't know it was so extensive. I had imagined something like for AU. I also had never seen it at Silver Spring.
The 40 footers are WMATA's?
That's exactly right. Shuttle UM is run completely by the students; they are very similar in structure to Blacksburg Transit, which is operated mostly by Virginia Tech students. Due to the turnover of alumni at Tech, all drivers are strictly part-timers, while full-time work is done by administrative staff at HQ. Also, it's interesting that both TAs run Metro Bs; Blacksburg has both 35 and 40-footers. In addition, they have New Flyer LFs and RTSes in the same lengths.
I like the fact that the buses at UM are in school colors; the webmasters of The Bus Spot (members.aol.com/busspot) met there and feature a UM Flx at the beginning of their site tour. Bus Spot was one of the first busfan sites I discovered online and helped me "come out of the closet" with my interest in buses...I haven't been the same ever since.
For more info on BT, check out www.btransit.org. Lots of eye candy for New Flyer buffs and a coloring page with a Flx Metro going through the wash. It's a neat site!
-F.
I spent a terrific two years driving the buses at Shuttle UM. I haven't been through there in ages, so I haven't seen the new Gillig's yet. I hope they get rid of the Blue Birds and that stupid trolley. LOL. From what I understand all the Flxibles, both 30 and 40 footers, were piggybacked on Baltimore MTA's purchases. It would have been cool if they could have received the NABI's. The newer Thomases they have are piggybacked with Ocean City's, I believe.
At one point when I was there, we had a lot of the buses going down for various mechanical reasons and almost had to borrow a couple of buses from MTA. This was back in 1994, so I don't know what we would have received in return.
I saw that the General Manager's position was open. I would love to apply for that, but my transportation experience is all analytical and not operational.
How did a Casey Stengal Orion get on the Q46, I thought this was suppose to be only QV's route. Is QV getting Orions or did they just need to borrow buses?
Q46 -Orion#521
AEM7 #951 IM Me a few days ago. And he told me that QV is haveing a Bus Stortage that they putting Suburbans on any LOCAL Lines and there was a Noiva RTS from JAM on Q46 and a CS Orion on Q31. idk why they doing there. BUT could a Bus Stortage got worser that they loaning buses? And if that's the case. Then I won't be Surprise if a Orion5 Suburban from CS would show up on Q46 since that's one of MANY Lines that I live near by.
How bad is the shortage? Are any of the 1999 Nova's still useable, because two weeks ago I was at Jamaica Center when #4933 rolled by. It looked like it was hit by a cruise missle from a nuclear sub.
Well, with the current issue down @ WTC and buses being used in WTC shuttle services, there is buses scattered! So now you have an issue of bus shortages in just about every garage. So what happens is that buses with a little more than others in the same division, share buses!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Bring back the 3800s in storage and use them for WTC transport or extra buses for depots that need them.
For about three weeks now, CS Orions 521 and 571 have been seen regulary operating in QV service. They are officially on loan to QV but they still sport their CS logos. I don't know about any JAM Novas being loaned to QV though.
Mark
8964 did 1 trip and went back to Jamaica. That was last week. I had the opportunity to ride on 521 on the Q46 today. I'll tell you-I felt like I was on the Q74. Especially when I saw 518 in front of 521. Very very weird-also she still has CS Stickers on her.
I'll keep my eyes out for 571. 4214 is another loan to QV but from Jamaica-no Novas.
Other Orions on the Q46-just Suburbans 619 621 and 627.
Also that's the reason why 1751 1767 1773 1852 3807 3818 and 3824 are still rolling around.
#521 Q46
Did you see any 1999 Orion5's on the Q46 or any other QV route? I'm just curious..
Nope But I did ride on 519 on the Q46 today. I asked a friend of mine if QV is that short of buses and he said that they're getting rid of the older equipment-probably the 4 remaining 1982 Suburbans (1751 1767 1773 1852) and the rest of the 3900s. Also possible testing for the Orion 7. Yesterday 4 Orion Suburbans were on the Pike: 611 622 627 and 630. I did see 3562 3972 and 1 or 2 others on the Q46 this morning. Why couldn't CS Send 4448 to QV instead of 519 and/or 521? Wouldn't that make more sense? Even sending 400-401 to QV would have been ideal. Go figure.
#519 Q46-still has the CS Stickers on her.
Add 4596 to the QV Scramble as I saw her on the Q30 today run 016. Jamaica Decals still on her.
#4596 Q30
Tommorow I'm going to ride the Q46 and Q36 to QV Depot. I'm going to see if any Casey Stengal Orions are parked outside, or if I see anything else strange, maybe JA's Nova Suburbans(hehehe).
Got to take the Q46 to Springfield then take the Q27 or Q88 to get to the Q36 at Jamaica Ave or walk about 4 blocks to 222 St to get to QV Depot.
#519 Q46
#7029 Q88
#514 Q27
#9357 Q36
got on #6351 yestrday. Nice bus. currently, all of the 6350 series(6350-6359 are operating out of Mother Hale)-i saw #6358 making the M1 trip in the opposite direction. Also caught sight of Orion V #143 heading to brooklyn on the X16 route. This had the Yukon depot sticker. i thought all orion V expresses were assigned to CS. Also, i was on Orion V #474 on Wednesday. It is from CS but the driver was putting it on the S79 route-saying the line was delayed. Why didnt Yukon get #471-#504 and sent #6326-#6349 to Castleton?
M1-#6351
B49-#8319
S79-#474
I thought 471-504 were at Castleton (CAS), not Casey Stengel(CS)
just came from QV Depot awhile ago(nice area must say). I noticed that you can see the entire front if you go around it. I didn't see anything strange though. I seen the 9286 parked inside. How come the Nova Suburbans are never on any of the local routes? If all 8 of the Nova Suburbans go on the X68, what buses go to the X32? I seen most of the bus depots except M.J.Quill and MV because I don't know where they are
Q46-RTS #8356
Q30-RTS #9371
Q1-Orion #625
Q56-RTS #5215
most qv stuff is parked inside if i am correct brooklyn67?
only outside stuff is along the back fence up against the lirr belmont spur.
and you can forget about walking in there freely without a pass.
Bus 4448 is at JAM awaiting scrap. It won't be seeing any service. As for QVs 1982 coaches, they are still running strong--all 4 of them.
I was on 1773 the other day.
I thought I saw 4448 at CS on Saturday.
The 1st Orion 07.501 CNG has arrived kids! The Number beginning is 7560, there is supposed to be approximately 250 of these shabby puppies arriving. So by doing the math, the CNG order will be 7560-7809. The Hybrid order, yet to arrive, will still be in the 97, 98 and 99xx Series.
Though the Orion 7 will not operate permenantly out of Gun Hill, it will be tested along GH's Bx28 line.
So if you see this monstrosity along Gun Hill Road, don't pass out!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Wait a minute! They are testing a low - floor bus along a route more well suited for the D60s?! What has management been smoking lately?
I would think a phat philly with the strongest gaunga available on the earth rolled up in a black & mild skin! Shit rolled tighter than havana!
NOW that's good smoking.........
For the record I have never smoked a drug in my life (Can't stand the odor) but I have friends that roll ones up like what I discribed above!
Trevor
I though that GH did not have CNG fueling station. So what are they doing with one, who going to fuel it.
Robert
Zerega!
Trevor
Nah...that was just flat out rock.
Cut it out Trev. I've seen photos of the Orion 7 and while it is a rip off of the New Flyer C/D40LF, its not the ugliest bus in creation either. That honor goes to New Flyer's Vikings and anything built by Neoplan.
How is a CNG bus being tested at GH anyway? Do they have CNG fueling capability all of a sudden? Some of the new buses (about 50-60) will be sent to JG until the new Bronx Depot opens (it won't be called "Coliseum") at which point they will be sent there. The rest will be delivered directly to The "B-X".
Mark
Fueling for 7560 while in testing at Gun Hill will occur at the Zerega Facility, they can defuel and refuel Ms. Monstrosity there!
Trevor
Please explain why "anything built by Neoplan" is so ugly. Here in Philly, about 2/3 of the buses are built by NEOPLAN, and I think they're quite attractive. If you want to see a FUGLY bus, check out those Orion 7's and the NOVA LFS. NOW THAT`S UGLY!!!!!!!!!!
Just because 2/3 of the fleet in Philly are Neoplans, that doesn't make them attractive. I like them better than low floor Flyers, but I actually like (don't hit me) RTS's better than Neoplans. Just my taste, I suppose! Instead of sticking up for Neoplans, maybe you should stick with Pat's Cheesesteaks and Taysteecake Butterscotch Krimpets!
I would take a NovaBUS RTS WFD over a Neoplan ANYDAY. After experiencing the WFD first hand in Canada this past weekend, I'm sold!
Trevor
I can not believe you people! Neoplan buses (at least the american built ones) are one of the most attractive buses out there (in the US). Novabus WFD are just disgusting, the Orion 7 looks slightly attractive, yet pretty disgusting. NABIs are about as plain as a bus can get. RTSs, well, they are okay, New Flyers with their bug faces-they are growing. But saying that Neoplan buses are horribly ugly? That's it just wrong, and all of you know that. WRONG! But, I have never ridden a WFD, so how are they like inside?
Exact! I have driven one and rode one, and I'm sold (Like a hooker on 42nd Street)!
Trevor
Uhm...ok. Although I expected a picture of the 'ugly' bus.
-Hank
Sorry Hank! I'm not that damn predictable!
Trevor
The interiors of the RTS-WFD's, save for the #1 module, are no different from any other RTS.
I agree with you on the Nova LFS. Their uglier than the Neoplans--and that's sayin' somethin'. Neoplan's performance history over the years is alone enough to make them ugly. As far as their physical appearance goes, Neoplan's express coaches are BUTT UGLY--sorry, that's just my opinion and I'll stick by it.
As far as I'm concerned, the GMC "fishbowl" is the most attractive bus ever built (both the 96" and the 102"). The 'bowls with the EIP's (for example the TA's 6000-6349) are my faves. The New Look Flxibles are next, followed by the Prevost H345, New Flyer C/D40LF, MCI D4500, Orion V and yes, the Nova RTS-06.
Mark
Of course to each is own!
For me the most attractive buses (FOR me that is are):
1) Flxible METRO Series
2) MCI D Series
3) Orion 1 ONLY
4) NABI 416 and 436 Series
5) New Flyer Buses (ALL OF THEM EXCEPT THE INVERO)
6) NovaBUS LFS and WFD RTS (Not that narrow shit)
7) GMC Fishbowl
The rest I'm not too pleased with but I deal!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I pretty much like the Orion5's and NABI 416's the BEST. Also Flxible Metros,MCI D4000/D4500's,Orion6's,New Flyer D60 Artics,Any New Flyer LF Exept the D40I,GM,MCI,Nova Classics,and ElDorado Transmark RE's.
Buses I sort of like are the Gillig Phantoms,Eldorado EZRider,and Nova LFS.
Can you please explain what is an EIP? Is it those "things" on either side of the back window?
Well I'm with you. I think the Neoplan is a very attractive piece of equipment. It could not have hurt if the MTA acquired some of these buses instead of 3,000+ RTS.
Actually, I like the Viking....its very sleek for a New Flyer design.
However, the ugly bus category would have to go to buses such as the New Flyer HF, the "psuedo-bus" Orion II, and the RTS-08 with the new "tacked-on" front end*. All of the above look like something I ate and dropped. UGH!
-F.
*The regular RTS, however, is a nice design. ALWAYS liked those.
The Nova RTS-08 WD sucked big time as does the Viking. The rear of the Viking does nothing for me, and that exhaust pipe has got to go!
Mark
I haven't seen the whole bus but I liked what I saw of the Viking so far. Also, I agree; the late-model WFD RTS-08 is just hideous.
-F.
I would have to give ugly bus honors to the Volvo artics used by SEPTA. Yipes... (Close second goes to anything built by MAN for US transit systems.)
Don't keep me hanging dogg! What about photos? Are there any on the net? Did you take any?
Peace --
Chris
I will be on the hunt this week to get photos, as soon as I have them, I will post a set here!
Trevor
I saw the demonstator here in Philly last week during the APTA meeting, and everytime I looked at it, I wanted to barf. What an EXTREMELY FUGLY bus. But MTA could have done worse, they could have gotten the NOVA LFS atrocity.
Now wait a minute, the LFS is the cutest little Low Floor bus next to the NABI and New Flyer, I'd buy a LFS in a heartbeat. That LFS has the quickest take off and the most comforatble driver's area I have EVER come across!
Trevor
Oh? I never rode one so I am not familiar with how well they ride. I have, however, taken a liking to the Thomas SLF 200; they are cute little buses and very nice on the inside. We just got two of them at Valley Metro. They are SHARP!!!
-F.
As I've told Trevor before, I thought the Nova LFS was one of the ugliest buses I've ever seen when I first saw it. However, after a few years it began to grow on me. Then I got to ride #995 on the M14 during the one year test in NYC and that turned me around - I really like the Nova LFS bus now. Rode one in Montreal last weekend - very nice ride, although it did have more rattles than I expected. By the way, former NYC #995 was sitting at the Nova Bus plant in St. Eustache, outside of Montreal, a week ago Friday. Looked the same as it was when in NYC, but a Montreal STCUM emblem was added below the front windshield. I had heard she ran in Montreal for awhile after leaving NYC.
My ride on the Nova LFS in Quebec and in Cleveland made me a believer. Looks ain't eveything! To the operators and managers it is the performance, so get used to that. The operators in Cleveland loved them and rightfully so. They are VERY peppy, scooting along Euclid Ave like a large sports car. I am serious! These puppies move.
All Nova needs to do is reconfigure the seating; that is the drawback.
I'd take a Nova LFS over a lumbering RTS anyday. And that RTS 08 ( now called WFD for Wide Front Door): sets bus design back 40 years.
joe c
Yeah...I never liked the LFS. It looks like an anteater on wheels! I wish NOVA didn't decide to scrap the RTS low floor project. THAT would have been nice. And fitting for NYC as well!!
-F.
EVERYONE START THEIR CAMERA'S!!!!!!
Now I got to get a photo of this before I go...... PTOOEEYY!!!!
Would that bus would be running Sunday Afternoon after 4 PM?
Take a ride like the rest of us bus photo hunters and find out!
Trevor
I take what you said SIR!
Does anyone know when more of these buses will come? Also are they going to JG after theiy're finished testing them?
The Bus will be assigned to the same run every day. Training for operators starts tomorrow (10/11/01) as stated before CNGs will not be assigned to GH, but mearly testing for 90 days.
ladis and gentlemen, may I have your attention, please???
ONCE AGAIN...I am planning to start an Orion 7.501 gallery sometime soon!!!!
I will be on the hunt for these buses and so should YOU guys! once you have your photos...all of you taking photos...can y'all PLEASE e-mail them to me, so we can start this gallery and so I can create a site for them??? or if you want, you can join My transit Page, my MSN Community, and we can start a gallery within the site. All links to the site(s) WILL be posted.
Thanks to all who participate!!!!!!!
Cleanairbus
If you're going to start an Orion VII gallery, I have a few pictures of the demo Orion VII when it was in Philadelphia last week. As far as I'm concerned, you can have them.
Depending on which source you believe, SEPTA is either considering them or not. Apparenly, someone sent me an email saying that SEPTA might give the Orion VII some serious consideration when it comes time for the next low floor order, but I would doubt that seriously, since the New Flyers have yet to arrive (but are scheduled to do so this month - or in December).
OK, thanks, ctrabs. BTW, (and this goes for anyone who doesn't have my e-mail address) you can either send them to me at carlwal@hotmail(please send photo(s) as an attachment) OR (what I prefer), send them to hybridbus@aol.com (again, send as an attachment).
That should help!
Cleanairbus
It was good news to learn of the new Orion VII; it always good news to learn of a new bus, no matter what it looks like. Great to learn that it would test in the Bronx. Great to learn that it would run the BX28, just two blocks from my apartment, where I could keep an eye on it.
I have been shooting transit vehicles since the 1960's and what held true then still holds true today. Ask several drivers, dispatchers and operators a question and you'll get several answers.
I have been attempting to track the Orion VII since learning of its test up here. So far these are some responses I have received:
"It went through here without passengers earlier. First I saw of it. Haven't seen it again."
"It ran this morning and should be on the line now."
"It is a Hybrid and will not stay here."
And here's my favorite: " I don't know anything about it. They never tell us anything (he he)."
So it you should go Orion VII hunting, forget plenty of film; stock up on patience!!
here it is .......
Another bad-ass photo! Nice! I'm not a fan of the Gillig, but the photo composition and the bus' paint scheme are awesome!
BusTalkers, see this guy's L.A. light rail photos in SubTalk . . . they're real nice too.
C
i took the shot at the green line rail terminal downstairs ( I 105 aviation airport ) terminal last spring ..... thank you !
Actually, the paint scheme on the LAX Shuttle fleet looks really impressive in broad daylight. They used bright blue/yellow with red and black trim. Some also have bright green instead of the yellow.
Having just relocated to South Florida from Long Island I have noticed some interesting situations.
Palm Tran which operates buses in Palm Beach County has approx 100 buses and they are using Giligs only. The buses are numbered by year ie:0110 is a 2001 bus,9710 is a 1997 bus.
Buses have bike racks on the front of buses for passengers.
Drivers work 40 hour weeks here but work only 4 ten hour days. Days off can be 3 in a row or 1 day then 2 to follow.
I have seen some Grummans in Broward County.
Thank You
I've seen pictures of Flxible Palm Tran buses, although I haven't seen them for myself. I don't remember the buses having bike racks, maybe that's a new thing.
I believe Palm Tran had some early 1980's 35 and 40 foot Grumman and/or Flxible buses, but they probably were replaced by the 2001 model Gillig low-floor buses. The 30 foot Flxibles were somewhat newer, so they may still be somewhere around in Palm Beach County.
Sid, I was talking to a PalmTran driver the other day and he told me that they only have Gilligs in the fleet now. You can check out the Palm Tran web site at www.PalmTran.org
Thank You
Once the TA gets these buses, what are they out to replace? if they are going to JG, then send the 8500's to either Ulmer Park(to replace the 7500's) or send them to the city where needed.
You can look for no 1982s, little to no 1984, the very few 1985, and the scattered 1986 GMC RTS Series buses!
Orions from Mother Clara Hale, the remaining RTSs at Gleason and some Queens Village diesel buses will be displaced to other depots once the smoke clears from this Orion 07.501 Hybrid and CNG order.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
If you don't normally read Subtalk as well, there's a photo contest going to happen in November, here's some info:
http://subtalk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/subtalk.cgi?read=274998
any commnt on the blue bird bus company line of buses ??...........!
They build fine buses for school districts and military bases, but for transit purposes . . . ehhhh, their line is pretty lame. Maybe OK for airport satellite-lot shuttles, but I don't know of any _major_ transit jurisdiction that uses them.
c
NJ Transit just bought some of them for their "Wheels Contractors". Some of the lines they can be seen on is the 978 and 979. Contractors like Red & Tan and Community Coach have them.
we have sone used for a free shuttle services here in pasadena goes all the way to old town pasadena !!
They were used for Scottsdale Connection Lines (Valley Metro routes 68, 76, 84 & 94) From 1993 to 2001 they were replaced by Eldorado & By 40 Ft Lower Floor NAMBI (YUCK!)
i am going to go out & take some good pics of our blue bird buses here ( the pasadena ca. free shuttle line ) ...
then i will share them with all of you ...
She's now got a large American Flag on its rear advertisment spot. I saw her on the N4 at 3:35 at Western and Jenifer Streets, heading towards Friendship Heights. I don't know whose spot that is but its an interesting touch.
Also, Ride-On Orion I 5542 still has the advertising frames from the Bethesda 8 service. It was on the 3:30 23 out of Friendship Heights, I saw it at about 3:32 at Willard Avenue and Friendship Boulevard.
And last but not least, I saw Ride-On 5123 on the 6 this morning at about 7:40 leaving Grosvenor for Wheaton.
Very nice to know; I thought about doing a model of a WMATA Flx with an American flag placed on it and it looks as if 9206 will be the one. Look for it to show up on eBay soon!
-F.
Where are you placing the flag? This one wasn't in its traditional spot.
I would be placing the flag in the rear ad spot just between the taillights; however, if a BusTalker wants the flag in a different spot, it may be cartainly be requested should they be high bidder. Look for it soon!
-Fred
Good. I just wanted to make sure you were doing it as I had seen it if that was what you were intending to do.
You bet; I wouldn't have it any other way!
-F.
Look for the bus to appear sometime tonight or tomorrow on eBay.
Are they valid on Express buses at all? I've tried searching the MTA's site site for any information, but all it says is that the metrocard can be used for 3 rides, without mentioning whether or not this includes rides on express buses.
Thanks in advance for your responses.
they work, on all express buses as far as I know, but some drivers will make you pay an extra $1.50 if they are looking at the card while you put it in. If you're smart, you'll wait until the bus starts to move, and then put it in while the drivers driving.
They work on express buses and the machine beeps the same as if you paid a 3 dollar fare with a regular MetroCard. On the machine it says 1.50 paid. I have had many students try to get away with not paying the additional fare (1.50).
peace,
Kevin
Good question! I'd say no and here's why:
customers with a RFM (Reduced Fare MetroCard) cannot use the card during peak hours on the express bus and must pay full fare. During off-hours they pay the difference ($1.50)
Our software does not have a screen for adding half fare express bus unlimited. (I am not saying it may not be in there but it is not on the screen for adding time--we just have a choice for adding one week at 8.50 or 30 days at 31.50.)
I have yet to sell an express bus unlimited card to anyone!
(I am a station agent[S/A])
"I have yet to sell an express bus unlimited card to anyone!"
Let me know what station you're usually at...I'll buy one! :-)
They work on NYCDOT express buses. Carry $1.50 in change with you. Occasionally, the student card will be good for the full fare and the driver usually doesn't argue with the card.
As far as I know, they don't work on MTA buses, but I could be wrong.
If the system allows a student MetroCard to count for $1.50 of the express bus fare, why doesn't the same go for an unlimited card? I should be able to pay for an express bus with, say, a Fun Pass and six quarters, or a Fun Pass and a pay-per-ride card with $1.50 on it, or two valid Fun Passes, or even two unlimited cards of different periods that both happen to be valid when I ride the bus. I assumed the technology wouldn't allow it, but apparently it does.
[They work on NYCDOT express buses. Carry $1.50 in change with you. Occasionally, the student card will be good for the full fare and the driver usually doesn't argue with the card.]
[As far as I know, they don't work on MTA buses, but I could be wrong.]
I believe this is correct, BUT there are two flavors of Student Cards:
Free Student ($1.50 credit toward $3.00 Exp fare); 1/2 Fare Student ($.75 credit toward $3.00 Exp fare, i.e. 2.25 due)
[... why doesn't the same go for an unlimited card?]
Because that's the rule ... unlim cards are good on subways & local buses. If you regularly use a Express bus for your trip you'll need to buy the Monthly Express MC @ $120.00.
Mr t
But I'm asking why that's the rule. If I only occasionally ride express buses, or I regularly ride express buses in short (daily or weekly but not monthly) spurts, why can't I get a $1.50 with my regular unlimited pass and pay the $1.50 in cash or with another (pay-per-ride or unlimited) pass?
Well, such a MetroCard exists, but you have to be old or disabled to qualify for it ... sorry about that.
Mr t
The "Monstrosity" Orion VII will be headed to the vendor for long term adjustments (like 801 did in '99) next month, so get your pictures fast. It'll come back when the rest of the fleet is delivered.
In December, the TA will be sending 50 buses to Salt Lake City for the Winter Olympics. With no new buses to send, look for a group from the existing fleet to go. A final decision hasn't been made as to which model will go, but the TA is leaning heavily toward a mixture of soft and hard seat 1996/97 Nova RTS's (yes, again...you may recall that 150 of these babies went to "The ATL" in '96). AGAIN NOTHING IS FINAL, so stay tuned...
Mark
I'll take photos, but only for site purposes, if it was for a personal collection I could do without, no rush they'll be here or back or whatever!
Thanks Mark
Trevor
if the ta wants to send buses,why dont they take from edgewater? Theses buses could be repainted and sent off. i mean, there are 3800's there.(express buses)
In 1996, the federal government ordered agencies to send their newest equipment. It's unlikely the government would allow an agency to send some of its oldest equipment this time around.
David
Those buses are WAY too old. The powers that be mandate that the selected transit agencies send some of their newer buses. The 3800s at Edgewater are 16 years old and are currently awaiting pickup for scrap by Nimco scrap yard.
The TA has to clear that yard due to structural problems with the pier overlooking NY Bay.
Mark
Why does NYCT get "elected" to send used buses 3/4 of the way across the country? Doesn't some other city closer to Salt Lake have new buses coming in who can "lend" them out for awhile?
I believe that there will be something to the like of over 1,000 buses being used out there, so the plan is to take a small portion from most of the major agencies nationwide to supply the needed equipment.
Originally, I had signed up to go out to Salt Lake to drive for the Olympics, but didn't follow through when I saw they wanted you to use 18 days of vacation for it, and I only get 3 weeks total. Considering the tenseness following this past month's events, I feel for those who are going.
Has anyone got a pic of the overhauled NABI's showwing up on Philly`s streets? They're quite attractive, the black band in the window area is gone, replaced by white paint. In my opinion it makes the buses more attractive.
Another thing, there is an update in the number of buses in service. There are 399 buses in the fleet-5001-5400. 5267 was destroyed in 1998 when it was hijacked by a mentally disturbed person, and driven into a pillar on the Frankford El in Kensington.
I agree nothing like a white window trim around a bus to do it for me!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I feel the white trim just makes the NABIs look as plain as ever, and I think it was a waste of money to put the stripe on and now take them off. The white doesn't make the bus ugly, but just really plain. At least the black trim gave it some sort of style. Of course, with some buses, like the Neoplan Transliners, the white trim is a plus.
How much is the bus? I haven't ridden it since late 1998. At that time it was $3.00 each way. This past week I've been at Rockaway Park and I was told $1.50. Whenever I try to ask a driver, he's in a hurry to use the toilet before leaving on another run.
The Q53 is definately $1.50. It accepts the Metrocard. Caution, if you are using a regular Metrocard, the Q53 only transfers to/from subways. There are NO transfers whatsoever to/from other bus lines on the Q53.
It also accepts 1, 7, and 30-day unlimited ride cards.
I can verify that. A few weeks ago I was wandering through Broad Channel. I was planning on taking the A train back but the Q53 pulled up and it accepted my Fun Pass. (I also got the very last seat.)
But why the no-transfer policy? It's not mentioned on the bus map.
Maybe for something like that, we should be asking the question on their website.
Is the bus route still a limited stop line ?
When I was a youngster in the late 50's / early 60's the bus would start at 61st/Roosevelt Woodside, then stop at 74th/Roosevelt, (IIRC) Grand Ave/Qns. Blvd, 63rd Dr/QB and then go express down Woodhaven/Cross Bay Blvd over the Cross Bay Bridge, make a few stops, including Playland until its terminus at 116th St in Rockaway Park.
Perhaps that since it is a limited stop run transfers are not permitted. I don't recall transfers being issued or accepted on the Q-53 when I rode it.
I DO REMEMBER the fare was 50 cents one-way and a same-day round trip was 85 cents.
The fishbowl that is usually parked at the NYPD station on the GCP near 188th St. is former TCC #743 which previous posts have said that this coach ran this route for many years.
Yes, it's still a limited. Actually, it's signed and described as an express (hence the OP's question about the fare).
But transfer policies have changed. As a general rule, a MetroCard-paying bus passenger gets one free transfer to any other bus line (with a few exceptions of routes that run concurrently for substantial distances) or any subway line. Even premium-fare express buses are in on the deal, although transfers from one express to another are out and a total fare of $3.00 is charged. But given the current transfer policies, there's no reason a Q53 passenger would have restricted transfer privileges.
(Incidentally, even before MetroCard, limited bus drivers have always given me transfers on request. I think the Q53 was a special case. Apparently it still is.)
I happen to know from personal experience that you can not transfer to/from the Q53 to the Q22, Q35, or Q60. I do not know why this is the case, but I can only speculate because it is an express bus.
From my understanding of a "limited" is that they pretty much stop only at major intersections or transfer points along the bus line. Even though that is partly the case with the Q53, the bulk of the route is non-stop. On a trip from Woodside to Rockaway Park after stopping at Queens Blvd. and 63rd Drive, the Q53 operates non-stop until Broad Channel which is approximately a 6 mile stretch. That might be the reason why the Q53 is described as an express as opposed to a limited. That might also explain why the Q53 only operate the express CNG Orion Vs at all times (unless it is during the summer months or equipment shortage).
Also, before MetroCard, the Q53 was a premium fare express bus. Although they didn't charge as much as the Manhattan express buses, the fare was more than the local buses. When the fare was $1.25 for local buses, the Q53's fare was $2.00 and there was absolutely, positively no transfer to/from any bus line. Believe me there were many times I would try to talk one out of the bus driver. They didn't even print transfers marked with Q53.
The Q53 is a hybrid limited-express. I guess it's described as an express so passengers don't go for a six-mile ride when they had planned on going ten blocks.
I didn't know that the fare had been $2.00. I wonder why it was reduced.
In any case, since MetroCard, transfers to and from express buses have been (newly) available. Why is the Q53 an exception? (And why isn't its status as an exception clearly printed on the map, where MetroCard privileges are explained?)
I echo your sentiments regarding better explanation of the bus. I have known many people who have seen the Q53 plying up and down Cross Bay Blvd. to Rockaway Park. If service on the Far Rockaway A train is interupted for whatever reason, those same people would go downstairs (Rockaway Blvd. subway station) and wait for the Q53 bus. When it shows up, to their surprise, the bus passes them by at 50 mph.
At work I have and use a scanner to let me know what is going on. Sometimes I know what is going on before the people who are to tell me what's going on know what's going on. I have the frequencies for the MTA buses. But I'd like to know what frequencies are used for the private lines in Queens and the MTA LI buses in Nassau.
Thanks!
The privates i believe use a 5 channel 800 or 900 mhz system that i cannot find in any publication. I saw it on one site and put those freqs in and the data channel was never picked up so i suspect those were the incorrect frequencies.
LI BUS uses the 800 mhz Nassau County Ericsson system. Most of their conversations are in the clear and only use like 2 or 2 talkgroups (10-011 ans 10-013).
I'd heard that the Queens Buses were using radios in the 935-940 Mhz area. But I haven't heard too much chatter in that area.
All the privates share a 900MHz trunked system run by NYCDOT. There are 7 frequencies presently in use, of which 6 are used for communications and 1 is the "control channel" which is just computer noise directing all the radio comms to the proper radios. The system is not too powerful so there are many dead spots throughout the city. Most scanners don't really work too well on this band. If you want to listen here are the frequencies. Note that the control channel changes so you might have to lockout a different channel everyday.
935.4500
935.4625
935.4875
936.4500
936.4875
936.7000
939.1875
If you have a trunktracking scanner, don't use it. Scan in conventional mode. Almost 90% of the comms are in "private mode" which a trunktracker doesn't "hear" (unless you have a Bearcat BC780).
Good luck!
Bob
Is there ny particular place where reception is good? Where is their transmitter? I had put the frequencies in my scanner last night and I was listening to all 7 all day that I was at Broad Channel. I didn't hear anything.
Just out of curiousity is anyone else taking the Part time NYCT Traffic checker exam on Saturday October 20?
Heard a report that NJT bus 1802 was stolen from the lot in paterson early this morning.
Oops.
I really have to get my sleepwalking under control.
Another case of an impatient passenger waiting too long for a bus !!
Bill "Newkirk"
Hey, SEPTA's neoplan now has an orange LED destination sign. Also, I'm not sure if it may have been this bus, but I saw a bus on the 124/125 at Gulph Mills that had an LED side sign too. I didn't have my glasses on so I couldn't see the fleet number.
They probably are testing out the orange TwinVision sign that adorns 7101. I wouldn't mind if SEPTA tried out the Luminator LED sign similar to those on the Green Bus Orions. That might explain why the sign wasn't working on 3200 when I saw it on Tuesday in West Chester, pulling down a 92 run.
Ah, I see. When I saw it, it was working. It's so bright though. When I saw it at night, all I could see were the headlights and the destination sign.
I was waiting at Norristown for the 10:10pm bus, but it never showed up. Therefore, I was forced to take the 96, which would cut my walk home from Norristown in half (the walk home from Norristown would take me about an hour). Anyway, I got off of the 96 at the Johnson hwy and Dekalb Pike. As I was wakling down the Johnson hwy, I saw the bus I was suppose to take, Neoplan 3200 with the bright red LED desination sign going to Norristown. However, it seemed to be parked at this gas station. Curious as to what was going on, i watched. I saw one of the SEPTA maintainance SUVs coming out of the gas station, and a guy who had just gotten off of the bus was yelling at the guy in the SUV, probably a complaint about the bus or bus driver. So the bus drove a little bit and parked while the SUV, flashing it's yellow lights, stopped in front of it. A minute later both the bus and the SUV started driving again. I'm still wondering what may have happened. Maybe the driver didn't really know how to operate the bus well, since I know that he usually drove a NABI for the 10:10 trip, and when I rode it there was this whirring sound as if the tires were rubbing against something. Or maybe the driver hit something, but the bus seemed perfectly intact. The strange thing is that the bus seemed fairly full, no standees, but a good amount of seated passengers.
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What's up with the latest Manhattan bus reroutes? The M42 and M104 terminate at 2nd Avenue (FWIW, some buses have correct signage while others still display the regular destination). The M15 bypasses the U.N. (Via the underpass? I didn't think buses could fit until a few weeks ago when I saw one enter.) The M66 terminates at Amsterdam, turning via 62nd. And there are more. The M66 one is the most surprising to me: what could be wrong with running through to West End? The M57 still runs there. Is something at risk on 66th between Columbus and West End or on 55th between West End and Amsterdam?
Yeah, Lincoln Center.
But Lincoln Center fronts on Columbus Avenue. In addition to the M11, now the M66 will be running directly in front of Lincoln Center.
The eastbound M66 is still running on 65th Street between Amsterdam and Broadway, where it passes through the middle of Lincoln Center, underneath a pedestrian overpass. That would seem to be the most vulnerable spot. Nothing's changed there.
All that's avoided now is the very north edge of Lincoln Center (Juilliard, which I doubt is a high risk) and 65th and 66th between West End and Amsterdam (Lincoln Center is east of Amsterdam).
lincoln center and the abc/channel 7 building
Here`s my list of the Best-looking Buses:
1) Flxible Metro D and E
2) Orion V
3) NEOPLAN Transliner AN440 and AN460
4) RTS 04, 06 (I hated the slope-backs)
5) Flxible 870 and Metro A,B
6) AM Generals (remember them?)
7) GM T6(or8)h-53xx,and 45xx/w Air cond. (fishbowls)
8) Flxible buses built 1972-1978
9) Flyer/AM General Trolleys (except those wierdos in Boston) post 1973
10) MCI D series
Most other bus models don`t look as good as these, tell us your favorite bus models.
My top ten based entirely on looks:
1(tie): RTS-06, 35 or 40 foot
1(tie): GM New Look, 40 foot
3: Flxible Metro D
4: NovaBUS LFS
5: Neoplan AN-440-A, AN-460-A
6: Orion V
7: New Flyer D40, D60
8: NABI 40LFW
9: RTS-03 slantback, 40 foot
10: Gillig Phantom
My Best In Order
Valley Metro RTS 4 & 6 40 Footers (4400 - 4560) 44 & 45 Passengers
(Slowly Being Retired Filnal Retirment 2004)
Valley Metro MANN Artics (1979-1980 Models) (7021, 7022, 7027, 7040, 7041) 70 Passengers
(All 65 Others Have Been Scrapped For Parts for remaing models)
Phoenix Transit Am General (1972-1977 Models) 48 & 51 Passengers
(All Retired in 1997)
Valley Metro New Flyers LF40 (1998-1999) 37 & 40 Passenger
(Reirement Begining In 2004)
In no particular order:
Transits:
- GMC fishbowl with AC and EIP
- Flxible New Look 53102
- GMC/TMC/Nova RTS 40 foot 04-06
Suburbans
- GMC 5108 Old Look with factory AC
- GMC Fishbowl 40 foot (the 35-foot suburbans looked strange to me)
- the NJDOT-spec Flxible New Look suburbans
- the original GMC RTS 04 suburban
Intercitu:
- MCI MC-7
- GMC P8M4905A/H8H649 (40 foot deck)
- MCI MC-9 with the first Jersey cap (even Greyhound had one of these)
- Prevost H3-45
- MCI 102DL3/D4500
My top favorites (for looks) are:
1) Neoplan Transliners (particularly the older versions like SEPTA's 40ft Neos, but the new ones are good too)
2) Orion Is
3) Flixible Metros, particularly the D's and E's
4) GMC RTSs 04 and 06s
5) El Dorado Transmark REs
6) Gillig Phantoms
7) NF low floors, not the Invero (too retro)
I love the fishbowls. Every now and then I look at the photos from the
Joe Testagrose collections. I just can't decide if I prefer the green oor blue paint schemes.
Michael
Here are mine:
Newer buses (1978-on):
1. (TIE:) Flxible Metro A,B,C
Grumman 870
2. Flxible Metro D,E
3. RTS 04-06
4. RTS 01-03
5. GM Classic (with Fishbowl side windows)
6. New Flyer Invero (love those retro cues)
7. (TIE:) Gillig Phantom
Gillig Advantage Low Floor
8. Thomas SLF 200
9. NABI (especially Baltimore MTA)
10. Orion V
Older buses (1978-up):
1. Flxible New Look
2. GM Fishbowl
3. Flyer D700 (w/New Look style side windows)
4. Flxible Clipper
5. Twin Coach transit (love that six-piece windshield)
6. Mack GT-series transit
7. GM 4509 (and any later Old Look with the front roof air vent)
8. GM 4104, 4904, et al
9. Scenicruiser
10.AM General transit
I look forward to seeing more favorites; perhaps someone may recall some buses I hadn't thought of at this writing.
-F.
Of the five depots of the Brooklyn Division, list them from the one you like the best to the one you like the least. er's my list:
1.Jackie Gleason
2.East New York
3.Flatbush
4.Ulmer park (it was tough to choose between UP and FLA).
5.Frsh Pond (unless FP gets more Novas, it will always remain at the bottom).
Does one base this on A) the appeal of the physical depot structure itself, B) the routes that run out of it, C) the equipment assigned to the facility or D) for TA employees - the quantity of likeable management??
That would be the routes, buses and and how you like the looks of the depot itself.
I put FP last because they only have like 4 good routes and most thier buses are crappy(cough87'GMC's), but thats just my opinion.
My question is based on you opinion of the depots.
FP is my favorite depot because they have alot of old buses, ENY is my least favorite. Too many damn Novas.
1-Ulmer Park
2-Jackie Gleason
3-Flatbush
4-Fresh Pond
5-East New York
Posted by Mike M on Sat Oct 13 23:16:40 2001:
"Does one base this on A) the appeal of the physical depot structure itself, B) the routes that run out of it, C) the equipment assigned to the facility or D) for TA employees - the quantity of likeable management??"
"Quantity of likeable management??"
What depot qualifies under this section? These are NYCTA depots we're talking about, right?
Of the five depots of the Brooklyn Division, list them from the one you like the best to the one you like the least. Here's my list:
1.Jackie Gleason
2.East New York
3.Flatbush
4.Ulmer park (it was tough to choose between UP and FLA).
5.Fresh Pond (unless FP gets more Novas, it will always remain at the bottom).
Started on MetroRail, see SubTalk Post.
At Silver Spring, I boarded Ride-On Gillig 965391 on the 1. Took it to Friendship Heights. Recorded the first 30-60 seconds of the trip, at which point my tape was used up. Then, at Friendship Heights, I got 015108 on the 42. This was my first time on these new buses. They are contractor operated!!! I asked the driver this as I got off. They don't have AFC. It is pretty much like the other ATE Ryder buses except no noisy wheelchair lift. Routes serving NIH and Navy Medical have been rerouted. For instance, the 42 now services Cedar Lane instead of Center Drive. The 46 just runs straight up Rockville Pike.
Oren, did you catch a build plate on the 5100? Who builds the bodies?
C
I looked and couldn't find one. Then again, I got off at its 3rd stop so it was a really quick ride.
what about the new 53xx series wtith no new destinations signs
Those are definately the contractor. They all have a C after their units.
how can tthose buse have no destination signs not metting ADA requirements being new buses???
They don't look that new to me. I think they are just new to the Ride-On contract.
they have temp license plates stranstran
they have temp license plates startran
Queens Village: 8352, 8355, 8356, 8373, 8375, 8386, 8388.
(7 of 43)
East New York: 8120, 8117 (2 of 50)
Flatbush: 8032, 8130, 8156, 8162, 8164, 8330, 8401, 8402, 8403, 8405, 8407, 8411, 8414, 8415, 8416, 8417, 8419, 8421, 8422 ,8424, 8427, 8428, 8430, 8431, 8436, 8439, 8448. (26 of 105)
Jackie Gleason: 8524, 8526, 8530, 8537, 8538, 8542, 8551, 8552, 8554, 8555, 8561, 8562, 8564. (13 of 56)
Fresh Pond: 8135, 8170 (2 of 41)
Yukon: (0 of 24)
126 Street: 8188, 8216, 8217, 8237, 8238, 8242, 8246, 8250, 8468, 8477 (10 of 72).
Hudson Pier: 8464, 8465, 8479, 8495 (4 of 52)
Manhattanville: 8266 (1 of 39)
M.J.Quill:????
Gun Hill: 8052, 8054, 8057, 8087. (4 of 51)
Note: I only listed the repowered TMC's. Tell me any buses that I've missed
QV: 8394
HP: 8500 8503 8506
DK about the others.
#8394 Q46
#8506 Q32
add 8055 to that list for gh
r142man
Bx31 Eastchester
HP: 8256
#8256 Q32
Also from Hudson Pier #8242 got repowered
Jason
Flatbush: 8317
B78#8317
Add 8363 from QV to that list. Saw her on Q46 this norning along with 1852.
#8363 Q46
Hey Gray, I was on the #8363 in the afternoon working on Q30 & the destination sign is not working at all. It sound diffirent than other buses & it run good.
Peace
David J.
Add 8363 from QV to that list. Saw her on Q46 this Morning along with 1852.
#8363 Q46
Thank you Amtrak.
Here's what QV has repowered: 8352, 8355, 8356, 8363, 8373, 8375, 8386, 8388, 8394 (9 of 43)
The only repowered buses I seen today were the 8386 and 8375.
Q46- Orion #630
Nice job Ridgewood:
Add to that at FLA: 8426(last week), 8432-8433.
JG: 8559
Stengel: 112, 118, 228, 230-232, 256-257, 260, 264, 266, 268-279, 281, 283-290, 295-301, 303, 305, 306, 308, 312-313, 316. (46 of 87, with 109, 113 and 307 at Zerega nearing completion, while 258 and 265 are at Blitz...btw 228, 232 and 295-297, 299-300 are courtesy of Blitz--yes THAT Blitz)
Castleton: (0 of 29)
Yukon: 126 (1 of 16, with 121, 123 and 124 at Zerega)
MC Hale: 174, 178, 186-193, 197, 199, 203-206, 209, 224-226, 234, 237-238, 240, 245. (25 of 76, with 179, 198, 200, 210, 219, 235 at Zerega, and 246 at Blitz currently being done)
Mark
113, 227, 229, 261, 280, 309 and 315(i think) are done.
CASTLETON has some repowered orions, like 168 I believe and others
Was it the MTA's plan to give the Orion Vs priority in the repowering program?
On 2 Friday's ago. Saw #113 on Q74 REPOWERED!
Hudson Pier buses include the following
8256
8493
8499
8500
8503
8506
Some of these units have come to us from 126th Street depot and we have sent 8250 to 126th street.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
Add the 8171 to Fresh Pond, I seen it this morning.
FP now has the 8135, 8170, 8171.(3 of 41)
Q46-Orion #611
I told you 8171 would be back soon!
I have a 2 ?'s & hopefully someone would know the answer.
Does anyone know of a hobby company who made or currently makes a model of the New Look Flxibles from the early 70's similiar to the ones made by Corgi?
Which US cities still operates any of the old Fishbowls or new look Flxibles. I know Toronto still has a fleet of Fishbowls which they are planning to keep and overhaul.
As to question #1 - I do not believe any company makes Flxible New Looks in O scale. There is a club at yahoo.com called A1 Modelbuses that I joined. Their discussion board has never mentioned it. Nor have I ever seen one auctioned off on E-bay.
FWIW - Fred Donaher of Star City Custons (IIRC StarCityCustoms.com) has taken the HO scale GM Fishbowl (marked "Central Station") and converted it to a Flx New Look. Occasionally he or other collectors put that up on E-bay. He posts on this board occasionally as "Flxible". His email address is - Fredman176 @ aol.com
As to question #2 - Dunno----"don't get around much anymore".
Actually, there IS an "O" scale Flxible New Look available; I make them by converting the Corgi Fishbowls and they look right on. Currently I am building two for repeat customers in NYCTA colors; if anyone else is interested, please contact me at StarCityCustoms@aol.com. I also plan to make 1:64 scale versions from the friction Fishbowls. Hope to hear from you soon!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
members.aol.com/Fredman176
www.ebaystores.com/starcitycustomsonline
Flxible models were basically NON-existant while the company was still in business. I had heard from someone with close connections to the company that they would NEVER license anyone to make models of their buses.
It's only been in the past few years -- basically since AFTER Flxible went out of business, that models of their buses have shown up -- and then, only the older highway bus in HO scale plastic. The company producing the models identifies them as a Clipper" but if one looks through the Flxible history book which also recently came out, the bus seems to match up with the Flxible Visicoach more than it does a Clipper.
Hmm...I wonder why Flxible was so anal about that? Oh well...at least we can find models of Metros and Clippers for our collections nowadays. And thanks to yours truly, Flx New Looks can be made from Fishbowls with a little meatball surgery....:)
-F.
Yes, there are Fishbowls still in service in Toronto. Most are 1980s versions made by GMDD of Canada; they basically look like non-A/C US models. These were so well-liked by Canadian TAs that they stayed in production there through the end of 1986 unchanged. TTC of Toronto overhauls Fishbowls as far back as 1975 every 10 to 15 years and retains them in revenue service; they have been leary of newer designs such as the RTS but have begun to use Nova LFS models alongside their trusty New Looks. Also, Santa Monica still runs a number of them in revenue service to this very day. WMATA ran Fishbowls as early as 1963 through last summer.
Also, an updated version, the GM Classic, was introduced in 1981; it features a redesigned front end with Flxible Metro-style headlights. Early models were just like the Fishbowls from the driver's window back and included articulated versions, while later models became more boxy and featured Gillig-style windows. When GM ceased bus manufacturing, the design was sold to MCI and later to NovaBUS, who discontinued the line in 1997. Many of these are common in Canada, with a few in cites such as Santa Monica and Grand Rapids, MI.
As far as Flxible New Looks, I wish I could say there were still a good number in regular service, but most have been retired. There were, however, a good number of them still running around here in Virginia in recent years; Richmond, VA ran them through 1996, Blacksburg ran some former PenTran units through the end of 1999, UVa ran some of our old Flxibles until about that time, and HRT (nee PenTran) retired their last batch of 1977 models just this year. I do know that a number of Flx New Looks still run in Tijuana and other foreign cities.
Some, however, still run as museum exhibits; for example, several restored examples show up at BusFest in NYC (most of them are owned by NYCTA as part of their historical fleet), OMOT still has a 1971 Flx in original TARTA colors that they run every so often, and one of our main runners at CC&T is a 1976 PenTran Flx 40-footer that we recenntly restored after it was donated to us by Blacksburg Transit. We also have a Valley Metro 1976 Flx from right here in Roanoke that we would like to restore eventually; wish us the best on that one. Hope this information helps!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Yes, there are Fishbowls still in service in Toronto. Most are 1980s versions made by GMDD of Canada; they basically look like non-A/C US models.
TTC adores their New Looks. They have now rebuilt more than half of the ones they still had in service in 1997 (when the major rebuilding started) and the fully rebuilt ones are numbered in the 2000-2100-2200-2300-2400-2700-2800 series. The 2600s are ex-Montréal buses bought by TTC in 1998.
A few other things. TTC New Looks do not have standee windows and they have dual-stream rear doors.
they have been leary of newer designs such as the RTS but have begun to use Nova LFS models alongside their trusty New Looks.
TTC only had a lone NovaBUS LFS, #1001. It is now off the property. They have more recently purchased New Flyer D40LFs (with more to come, presumably) and they have some 1997 CNG Orion 06s. TTC really does not like low floor buses, but you will never hear them admit that. For political reasons, they have to buy low floor buses.
Also, an updated version, the GM Classic, was introduced in 1981; it features a redesigned front end with Flxible Metro-style headlights. Early models were just like the Fishbowls from the driver's window back and included articulated versions,
This Classic/Fishbowl hybrid was only produced in an articulated version. It really started as an articulated fishbowl, but GM just tinkered around with the front while they were at it, and thus was born the Classic.
windows. When GM ceased bus manufacturing, the design was sold to MCI and later to NovaBUS, who discontinued the line in 1997. Many of these are common in Canada, with a few in cites such as Santa Monica and Grand Rapids, MI.
...and NYCDOT and CT Transit and DDOT and PATransit and Pace a few others. I think there are something like 15 total systems in the US that have Classics, and virtually every sizable TA in Canada has them.
Thank you for the additional info; it's always good to know more about these buses. I wonder how the reasoning behind the low floors is political?
Also, it's interesting how the Classic artics came to be; that sounds like the same logic applied to a Fishbowl/Old Look hybrid that I saw recently. Apparently the bus was a turbine-powered demo built around 1960; it had an Old Look body with a Fishbowl-style front end, much like the 1960 Flxible preserved in Chicago which was basically an Old Look-style body with the Flx New Look front end. IIRC, that was the only 1960 Flxible transit bus built and the one in Chi-Town is unique.
Personally, I'd have rather seen the Fishbowl artic with the standard front end; it's much more appealing to the rest of the styling than the Classic front end. I've never rode a Classic but I'll bet it's an intersting bus to ride. Hopefully I'll make it back to Grand Rapids before they retire their 1990-91 models. Thanks again!
-Fred
One of the local bus folks out here in southern California actually bought one of the GMD TA60102N articulated buses from Mississauga (ON), and brought it way back out here. He has extensive experience working on real buses, and he checked everything out -- says there is NO way to graft a standar fishbowl front end onto that artic.
I got to drive the thing recently, and geez, forgot what it was like to drive a bus without power steering!!!!!
Hmm...that's interesting. I don't see how the New Look front end cannot be retrofitted readily onto a Classic; I'll bet with a little meatball surgery it could be pulled off. Anything is possible....
Wow...those artics don't have power steering? That's not surprising for a New Look styled bus, but for 60 feet of length...SHEEZE! Bet that thing is a hell of an experience to drive.
-F.
I wonder how the reasoning behind the low floors is political?
Same reason it is here in the US. Speaking from a purely operational standpoint, transit systems could not give two sh$&ts less about low floors; they are in service largely because vocal disabled advocacy groups want them. OK, fine - ramps are easier to maintain than lifts, but outside of this, as far as TAs are concerned, the only difference between a low-floor bus and a standard-floor bus is capacity.
For many smaller and midsize transit systems, capacity is not an issue, but for a system as massive and heavily used as TTC, it's a huge problem. When TTC took delivery of its first 50 low floors in 1997-98, they were deployed on a very busy line (29 Dufferin.) Operating costs skyrocketed because TTC had to significantly increase the number of buses on the line to hold down the same service as the standard floor buses did.
TTC subsequently released numerous reports on the performance of low floor buses, all of which stopped just short of saying "We would really prefer to buy and use standard-floor buses." TTC's 7200-series RTSs were purchased -after- the 9200-series Orion VIs, which speaks volumes about the way TTC feels about low floors. The most recent TTC bus purchase was 51 New Flyer D40LF low floors, and these have proven somewhat more suitable for TTC than the Orion VIs, but aside from the 29 Dufferin, you still will not find low floors on any major major bus lines in Toronto. In fact, capacity is such an issue in Toronto that TTC had to 'unretire' about a dozen Ikarus-Orion III artics.
Alas, TTC will inevitably purchase more low floors. I do not discriminate, but what's good for wheelchair users is not necessarily good for the rest of the ridership. (and no one give me any of that crap about low floors being 'easier for everyone'... I know they are but capacity is the most important thing when 50-100 are lined up at each major bus stop during the AM rush like they are in Toronto.)
[they have been leary of newer designs such as the RTS but have begun to use Nova LFS models alongside their trusty New Looks]
TTC did order 52 RTS buses (flat fronts) in 1998 - fleet #7200-7251.
Also, I believe the first Classic 40 foot bus was built in 1983.
Oh? It was to my understanding that the Classic was introduced in 1981. I may be thinking of the arctics; I do know that there are some 1982 models of those in Canada. Thanks!
-F.
From a Canadian Transit Heritage Foundation publication I have, I learned that the Classic was built between 1983 and 1996 (I believe a few of the 1996 models were delivered in 1997). GMDD-Canada did continue to build fishbowls after 1983, but fishbowls built between 1984 and 1986 were for U.S. customers only (not Canadian customers). Frankly, I don't know which U.S. properties may have bought fishbowls in 1984-86, although I did find a reference to a Santa Monica fishbowl bought in 1985 (one is in Brampton Transit service in suburban Toronto). The articulated new-looks with the Classic fronts were built in 1982 as part of a demonstration project sponsored by the Province of Ontario. Hamilton is supposed to have a few left. When I was in Ottawa a week ago Sunday, I saw Ottawa's one bus of this type, #8222, which was formerly Hamilton #8202. O C Transpo also had Hamilton #8215 still in Hamilton colors; perhaps they use it for parts. As an aside, I recollect seeing two articulated Classic buses in Quebec City a number of years back, but I did not see them listed on the latest STCUQ roster.
I've been told that Santa Monica has the last fishbowl (a 1986 model) ever produced, but now they are only used during the rush hour. I hope Santa Monica decides to at least save that one.
I think the only bus company still using fishbowls here in New York is New York Bus Service. MTA/Long Island Bus (formerly M.S.B.A.) had fishbowls from the city (the 5000 series) up until May of 1997.
Thanks
LOL....LOVE the handle. Speed was a great movie! Damned shame about the ending though....
Hmm, that's interesting about the final Fishbowls going to America...what a neat fact. I wonder if politics had something to do with that one? You are correct about Santa Monica; they purchased a large number of new Fishbowls in 1985. (I can't believe I'm saying that...much as I love the Fishbowl, it does NOT look like a 1985 model bus!). I know a lot of Canadian Fishbowls did not come with A/C units; I wonder if the Santa Monicas did? Also, were Alcoa wheels ever offered on them as a factory option, or were the ones on 2525 retrofitted just for the movie? I have so many questions.
As an aside, it's ironic that the Classic was built the exact same time as the Flxible Metro; between 1983 and 1996.....especially since they both bear the same headlight cconfiguration! Thanks for all of your info here.
-Fred
I am quite sure that all of Santa Monica's fishbowls bought in the 1980's contained air conditioning. A number of fishbowls built in Canada in the late 1970's and 1980's have reappeared in Canada through second-hand purchase by transit authorities there from U.S. properties. Other than the 5 fishbowls from Anchorage (which were built in 1984) that are now in Guelph, and 1 Denver fishbowl now in Niagara Falls, the second-hand U.S. fishbowls usually have a/c. This makes them easy to spot, as the Canadian counterparts originally purchased by Canadian authorities generally do not have a/c.
Strangely, ex-KB & AMS Orions 402, 403 and 405 are in GH service and sporting GH logos, meanwhile Nova 8924 was spotted on the M5 with KB logos.
Hmmmm....
#8925 was prbably an extra out of KB. Or a spare, since Mannyville is taking in more 1982 RTSs with the 1900s going for a new engine.
Same could be the case at GH, cause I'm seeing more buses repowered nowadays.
I understand that the Orion 5's are to be used on the Bx29 only
That what it said on the front destination sign.
Was this destination programmed after the WTC diaster or always there for short turn service ?
As far as other buses that were detoured from lower Manhattan, would destinations be changed to reflect this ?
Bill "Newkirk"
The M104 has a 2nd Avenue destination sign.
It may well have already been there, since the M104 has had to terminate at 2nd Avenue in the past, namely whenever 1st Avenue by the U.N. is blocked off.
It's been there before the attacks. #1067
http://www.geocities.com/nyctbusman2000/destsigns/
This site has the signs (last updated 3/00)
I forgot the address to FDNY's site, which has a more updated database, but some readings have no codes associated to them.
My site is up to date,NYCT and DOT Routes,,but the codes were omitted out of respect for my source's requests!!!!
Steve
http://community-1.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT
I also have sites on Westchester Cty and New Jersey and CT Transit
I have the FULL routings of all the detours ,,
M15
M66
M104 and M42
M20
M9 to City Hall
B51
M6 to Reade and Bwy
M1
contact me on smokiecat@webtv.net
Does anyone have info on the "L" bus Shuttle that ran last weekend-10//12-15, as to # of runs, depot assignment, etc.?
I think the depots the buses ran from were from Callowhill and Victory.
I never heard of Callowhill and Victory depots. Where are they? I don't remember reading those names in a message about Brooklyn depots.
Michael
Philadelphia.
Generally Bus Shuttles that replace Subway Service are split among all depots in the boro that the service disruption is in.
In case of the L Line which required a major replacement the work is assigned among the 5 Brooklyn depots.
If it is a very long term replacement such as for months and years such as the Grand Streeet/Canal Street Shuttle or the DeKalb Ave/Grand Street Shuttle the work will be assigned to one depot and it is picked by the drivers.
If the Sea Beach Subway Line is cut back from Stillwell Ave to 86th Street this coming January as scheduled and a Bus Shuttle is used the route will be assigned to Ulmer Park since it will be a rather short route.
If a bus shuttle for a replacement for subway service is very short (1 or 2 buses that are needed) then it is assigned to the nearest TA or OA Depot.
Hope this helps you
Thank You
I was at 69th St. Terminal in Phila. today and saw a "shorty" version of a Neoplan bus. Is this the "El Dorado"? Is it made by Neoplan???
Thanks in advance.....
Chuck Greene
All 30 foot Neoplans assigned to Victory have been retired, so you must've seen one of SEPTA's ElDorado Transmark RE's. They're manufactured by ElDorado National and not Neoplan. There are currently 20 of these babies assigned to Victory and 60 assigned to some of SEPTA's other depots.
Thanks, they really fool you, because they look like Neoplan clones.
Chuck Greene
Well, they were 35ft Neoplans anyway.
I just read that the X92 returned to service today with 15 runs(yay!!)-but im a rider of the X29 from Manhattan to Brooklyn. I know that they reopened Broadway south of Canal Street. Is the X29 still detoring via Houston Street and Allen Street or is it now rerunning back along Broadway? i'd want to do the trip Wednesday if it was so.
B64-#4764
The X29 (and X27 and X28) are not yet back on Broadway.
David
Hey folks...I read the post about WMATA no. 9206 running around with a flag and it inspired me to make a model of that bus. Check it out at www.ebaystores.com/starcitycustomsonline. Happy bidding!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
The unveiling of the new exhibit "Britain in NY, Side by Side" was at GCT's gift shop today. And it is quite a display! Models of old and new "tube" car stock, bus models and the usual display boards of factual photos, drawings and lots of other interesting stuff. AND the gifts themselves are terrific. Shirts, toy double deck buses (E.F.E.),pins, mouse pads. And books! I bought three terrific books and will be eating peanut butter for a month; but well worth it.
Check it out; it runs to the 28th of Oct.
Joe C
Hopefully your favorite brand of peanut butter is on sale this week! :-)
As I was getting off 622 on the Q46, I saw bus 4927 and 8370 parked at Queens Blvd. However, this was not your everyday occurance. Reason: 4927's left side grill was gone. 4927 run 021 was hit by 8370 run 324. Funny to see 2 buses from the same depot in an accident with each other. From what I saw, the driver with 8370 is at fault. Lots of superintendents were on the scene.
#622 Q46
The TA does not think it is funny at all!
Yep I know-that was the reason for the Superintendents.
I remember when I saw 635 on the Q76 a few weeks ago involved in an accident with 2 other cars-5 superintendents were on the scene behind bus 635. Since then, I believe 635 has returned to service.
I doubt that 4927 will return very soon.
8370-I don't think she had much damage to her.
#8386 Q46
PS What's going to be up with Bus and SubTalk from now till Nov 3?
Was you the guy sitting in the first seat?
I saw it. I was there and saw #4927 and #8370 myself. I saw part of the back door on #8370 have a BIG DENT On it and it looked BAD and #8370 could be out for a FEW Months and idk about #4927. BUT I could guess maybe a FEW Weeks.
This won't be my last post ever-this will be my last post on this board for a temporary time-probably for about a month-maybe more. I'm going through some very tough times at school right now and I have to be focused. I'm graduating in January from SJU and will be looking for a good job-possibly with the TA.
I appreciate being on this board and hope that all will understand.
I'll leave with a quote from Anon_e_Mouse:
"Until Next Time!"
#951 Amtrak AEM-7
The True Red White and Blue!
This Sunday we were visiting the city and had lunch in Chinatown and a matinee in the Theatre District. Our old pattern had been to take the M-9 or M-22 to the WTC and catch either an ACE or 1/9 subway north.
With the 9 route shortened and the 22 eliminated, there are no cross-town buses in Chinatown. We took the 103 to 42d street and the 104 to Seventh Ave and 45 minutes was not enough time.
Would it be possible to do something like run the M-22 along Canal Street?
and the B51 is running normal service again
Steve
FDNY
Traffic is typically awful on Canal. (I don't know if the Holland Tunnel restrictions have changed that.) It would take forever to get across town.
But you don't need a crosstown bus. Just walk to Canal and Centre (or take the J/M train to Canal, if that's easier) and take the Q/W straight to 42nd or 49th. That should easily take under 30 minutes, including the wait.
You may BusTALK chat here...........Click Here
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
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Aren't those the Randall's Island Parking Routes?
I Think So!
:o/
Trevor
I have been interested in a private express bus company in New York that operated GM and Flxible suburban fishbowls up until about 1998.
The line ran from Downtown Manhattan to Brooklyn. Then it vanished. I understand it also operated some railroad station shuttle service.
I would appreciate any info, photos, maps, tt's, roster, etc. on this operation.
Thanks!
Hopefully you will see this message before Dave goes on vacation. Metro-Apple was a subsidiary of Red & Tan lines of New Jersey.
If you return to the index, change the display style to 'Threads' and ask for the last 'eons', you will see that this topic has been raised and discussed within the last year by posters who were are much more knowledgeable about this than I am.
Happy searching !!!!!!
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Ok, I know I should know this but how many different versions of the New Look Flxibles from the 70's exist? I can think of only 3 versions. Sorry don't know the model numbers....
One version with batwings with the ac in the rear. (Miami-Dade comes to mind)
One version minus the batwings, with the ac in the rear. (NYCT)
One version minus the batwings & no ac in the rear. (NYCT)
I don't necessarily agree with your categorization of those 3 as different "versions". The same can be said for GM fishbowls, yet the true distinction in versions for fishbowls is 4517, 5301, 4519, 5303, etc. New look Flxibles have similar distinct versions (or models) and are generally lumped into three generations. The first generation includes models F2D, FD, FD35 and F2P. The second generation includes 111CC, 111CD and 111DD. The third generation includes 35096, 45096, 45102, 53096 and 53102. For more detail, see the Ohio Museum of Transportation's New Look Flxible index page at: http://www.omot.org/roster/FlxList/index.html
Sid,
Good idea to direct him to OMOT's site -- I forgot to do that. That would be the place to see exactly how many "models" there were over the years. GM made it quite easy for everyone to decipher the models -- but Flxible's "code" and changine the system three times throughout the years surely made it difficult for everyone to figure out!!
The "with batwings" and "without batwings" are not really "versions" of Flxibles. The "batwings" are just an add-on accessory, as much as powr mirrors on an automobile...they don't change the model, they are just an accessory.
There have been MANY models of Flxible transit buses. Transit buses came in three basic lengths -- 30', 35', and 40'. They also came in two widths -- 96" and 102". Then you have various model updates through the years -- if you see early Flxible transits, they have more squared window sashes as their most recognizable feature. This was on the very early new look types -- until about 1964. After that the window sashes came more rounded.
Early model designations of Flxible buses were difficult to decipher if one did not know the "code". The first ones at NYCTA (5001-5165) were model F2D6V401, which were 40-foot, 102-inches, no air conditoning. This was in 1964.
In 1970, the 40-foot, 102-inch buses WITH air condtioning were model 111-CC-D5-1. (The "CC" designated the bus size, D5 was Detroit 6V71 engine, and -1 was air conditioning.)
By 1973, the model numbers at Flxible again changed, so the NYCTA order then (7000's) were 53102-6-1.
Basically, as buses are NOT off-the-shelf productionitems...they ARE custom built to the buyer's specifications, there could be countless models available. They do start out as certain basics....as I mentioned above. But there are counltess one-order-of-a-model buses around...such as the GMC T6H5309A's built ONLY for the New York MTA properties.