I caught sight on this bus last night on the B82 route. I know Ulmer Park has #8340-#8350. Did Ulmer Park give up these numbers and send them to ENY? If so, then what did Ulmer Park get to replace these?(By the way-B82 is a ENY Depot route)
Last week 8340-8344 was moved over from UP to ENY. I guess 8345-8350 went over to ENY as well. ENY has over 40 buses out of service and they need help in a major way.
Mark
Being that ENY capitalized on the 1999 RTS-06's.Does this mean we are now going capitalize on the 1990 model as well(also I guess farewell to the 1984/85 RTS-04's).
I know, I passed by Herkimer storage and saw nothing but 4900 and 5200 series Novas up in there.
B12#4975Mike
B17#5225Mike
So that explains where 8344 went. A few years back, she was assigned to QV. Guess they sent her away to make room for the reman RTS buses.
1. Do Articulateds run on 22 and 55?
2. Do Articulateds are still running on 77 or it was until the ElDorados started to run on 77?
3. I heard something that DayPass NOW could be use on ALL SEPTA Services everywhere there's SEPTA Service. Is that TURE?
4. When Trolley Service would come back on the 23?
5. Why SEPTA have to put the fares up to $2.00? I think that's a bad idea. And $1.80 would have been good idea.
6. I going back to phily. I don't know what date I e going back to phily. BUT I have to bring a 6 Year Old Girl that's would be visting from Purto Rico that since she's a child. She could go on for free when I pay the fare?
Thanks.
1. Do Articulateds run on 22 and 55?
[Yes. Most of the time, artics run on these two lines, but once in a while, the blockers at Midvale put a NABI on the 22/55. There are only 49 artics at Midvale, which are spread out between the 18, 22, 55, 80, and C.]
2. Do Articulateds are still running on 77 or it was until the ElDorados started to run on 77?
[No. The artics on the 77 was due to a scheduling fluke - that particular 77 run would at some point become a 22. Why that happened remains a mystery to me.]
3. I heard something that DayPass NOW could be use on ALL SEPTA Services everywhere there's SEPTA Service.
[To an extent. The DayPass is valid on all SEPTA City and Suburban Transit divisions, and for a _one-way_ ride on Regional Rail.]
4. When Trolley Service would come back on the 23?
[I wouldn't count on trolleys returning to the 23 for several years, if at all. As much as I'd like to see that happen, traffic on upper Germantown Av - where the 23 operates it's northern segment - is difficult to the point where the buses are having a hard time making the schedule.]
5. Why SEPTA have to put the fares up to $2.00? I think that's a bad idea. And $1.80 would have been good idea.
[SEPTA claims that if the fares remained at $1.60, the defecit would have been $32 million. Originally, the base fare was to have been $1.90, however a last minute effort to increase state funding for mass transit - not just SEPTA, but all transit systems in Pennsylvania - fell through. At least, that's what I'm led to believe.]
6. I going back to phily. I don't know what date I e going back to phily. BUT I have to bring a 6 Year Old Girl that's would be
visting from Purto Rico that since she's a child. She could go on for free when I pay the fare?
[On weekends, that is the case, though I really don't know how the children's fare policy works, since I don't have any on my own.]
Thanks. Now a few more Questions.
1. At what is a good time to get on a Articulated on 55 or 22?
2. Are the Articulateds are use on Doylestown Trips on 55?
3. Are SEPTA Transfers and DayPass are good on Doylestown DART Buses?
4. What Buses run on 129?
1. At what is a good time to get on a Articulated on 55 or 22?
[Generally, artics are on the 22 and 55 most of the time (I'd say 80%) but I don't know about weekends. I'd say it's pretty likely you'd get an artic on the 22/55 any day.]
2. Are the Articulateds are use on Doylestown Trips on 55?
[Yes. The bulk of the ridership goes between Willow Grove and Olney, but the artics still go all the way to Doylestown.]
3. Are SEPTA Transfers and DayPass are good on Doylestown DART Buses?
[No. That's a separate service operated by the Bucks County TMA, and is not associated with SEPTA.]
4. What Buses run on 129?
[It varies. It's generally a mix of 40 ft buses and Eldorados, though a Breeze van slips in once in a while.]
I'm not sure whether they run the artics on the 22 on weekends, although I wouldn't be suprised if they did. The 55 definitely has them.
Thanks.
Now here are some Extra Questions.
1. What Buses run on 130,and 127?
2. When is a best time to get a ElDorado on 129?
3. Did any 35 Foot Neoplans are still running on 35?
Thanks AGAIN!!
3. Did any 35 Foot Neoplans are still running on 35?
they are only two Neoplans left.
1. What Buses run on 130,and 127?
[On the 130, Breeze buses usually cover those trips, but an Eldorado will sneak in once in a long while. Ridership on the 130 is very small to begin with. As for the 127, 40 footers (either Neoplans or NABIs) cover the line, since some trips have fairly strong ridership levels. Plus, the 127 is considered the "shuttle" between Trenton Rail Station and Sesame Place that NJ Transit mentions in its summer guides, so that likely accounts for the added ridership.]
2. When is a best time to get a ElDorado on 129?
[I honestly couldn't tell you, since I don't get out to Bucks County that often. Since that's basically a foreign territory to me (as most of you recall, I live in Chester County), I don't have much of a reason to go out towards the Ox Val area.]
3. Did any 35 Foot Neoplans are still running on 35?
[I did spot 1320 last week on the 35. The Eldorados are supposed to be on that line, but I guess some drivers at Midvale have yet to be trained on the new buses - especially a couple who operate the 35.]
Thanks.
"As for the 127, 40 footers (either Neoplans or NABIs) cover the line, since some trips have fairly strong ridership levels."
I have heard that a ElDorado was on the 127 one time. I think sometime back in April on the first Saturday when Samame Place was open. Since ridership is high on the 127. 127 could use Articulateds since the ridership is high and alot of turns here and there.
"I did spot 1320 last week on the 35. The Eldorados are supposed to be on that line, but I guess some drivers at Midvale have yet to be trained on the new buses - especially a couple who operate the 35."
I heard something that the 2,32,and 61 Express trips are running ElDorados. What the HECK Happin that those routes are running them? It's sort of like what Red Arrow did that they put a ElDorado on 105. SO now what's next? A Breeze Van 2000 Series run on 27?
Hold on, the 105 needed those for a while, at least on the Radnor trips, I guess, during the midday. Forever they've had Neoplan 40ft buses running, except for the 4:30 bus from wayne (I don't know the time it left Paoli) that was always packed. However, ridership is really low on the 105 past Ardmore, so an ElDorado is efficient on those trips.
I spot neoplan 1322 runing on the G.
1.Today i saw a group of ten 1984-1985 neoplans on 11 market street one of there # was 8673.
btw:i seen groups and groups of these 1984-1985 neoplans as of lately.
I can answer a couple of those...
>1. Do Articulateds run on 22 and 55?
Yes they do, I don't think the 22 and 55 are exclusively artic though
>2. Do Articulateds are still running on 77 or it was until the ElDorados started to run on 77?
I think the 77 is Eldorado territory now, I forget why the had artics on it though-I'll defer that to ctrabs74.
>3. I heard something that DayPass NOW could be use on ALL SEPTA Services everywhere there's SEPTA Service. Is that TURE?
I'm not sure about that one-that would be sweet though.
>4. When Trolley Service would come back on the 23?
SEPTA's capital program has money alotted to bring the 23 and 56 trolleys back, but no definite date other than it's something they're looking to do between 2006-2013, so it's wait and see on that one.
>5. Why SEPTA have to put the fares up to $2.00? I think that's a bad idea. And $1.80 would have been good idea.
It was originally going to go to $1.90, but at the last minute they decided on $2.
>6. I going back to phily. I don't know what date I e going back to phily. BUT I have to bring a 6 Year Old Girl that's would be visting from Purto Rico that since she's a child. She could go on for free when I pay the fare?
SEPTA doesn't have a special child's fare other than school tokens, however, if she's 42" (3'6") tall or under, she would be able to ride for free at anytime, and since she's under 11, she would be able to ride free regardless of height. Nice roadeo pics by the way!
Saw her pulling out of Main St./Roosevelt Ave. by Modells heading towards QV on the Q27 last nite at 6:50p.Guess a few more Orions are out for repowering.
where can I find a picture of the[from what Ive heard on this site]ugly,hated Orion 7 bus the TA bought anyway even after it fell apart on the shaker table?
Ask Trevor for it or go to The Orion Bus Page by MTABoy99 a.k.a. Q46_Nova_RTS , where he has Trevor's only photo of the Orion VII "Shitbox".
CWalNYC
okay,now for the next question,CDTA has Orion 6 models but they are very different from the ones I have seen. unlike the MTA's the rear door is REALY in the rear! I mean this design real sucks,it made the bus somewhat smaller as far as room/space,with that rear door taking up so much space back there. ON the other hand, the NOVA LFS's are great!The only flaw,the double seats in the rearmakes the alse very narrow,where as you almost have to climb over people to sit. other than that its a great bus.
If I remember correctly, the Orion VI was originally designed with the rear door behind the rear wheel well, at the very rear of the bus. In due course, Orion offered a rear door ahead of the rear wheel well as an option.
Effective today (07.01.01), Academy Express will take over the operation of Rutgers University bus service, taking over for Coach USA/HAML Corp. Also, there are plans for 12 low floor artics to be placed into service early next year (my guess would be New Flyer artics) to replace the older MAN & Neoplan artics. The information came from this unofficial Rutgers Campus Bus page which I just found today.
I happened to be at Foxwoods in Conn. today (more to bus watch than to gamble!) and I saw many of the HAML-owned buses that used to run in Rutgers service in Coach USA colors running some of the Foxwoods shuttles. These were the fairly new RTS buses HAML had in the low 600's, which are now numbered 2060x. The legal lettering still says HAML in New Brunswick, but I've got to believe they are actually operated by Arrow in Waterford, like the Arrow buses on the Foxwoods shuttle.
It will be interesting to see what Academy runs at Rutgers. There are a number of state RTS's in the 1000 series and a few older state Flxibles in the 32xx series, but the 600 series RTS's and the Neoplan and MAN artics were owned by HAML. Will some of Academy's ex-NYC RTS's show up there?
The interesting thing about seeing 618 at Philadelphia International Airport was that the curb side sign was frozen on "EE - College Ave" while the front sign read "Cargo City". I guess those second rate TwinVision signs are not just limited to SEPTA's artics (quite a few of the side signs are not working properly).
AFA Academy, I doubt they would send some of the ex-TA buses to Rutgers, as I would think that they'd keep those buses in Hoboken for their local services. It's possible, though, that a few more NJT-leased RTS buses could be put onto campus bus service.
Academy so far has sent the following buses to do Rutgers Service. Former Academy Airport Novas 1026-1031 are now being used at Rutgers as 1036-1041 in a brand new paint scheme as well. These Novas are owned by Academy. How you can tell they were airport buses is that they still have the yellow light on the roof of the bus.
Academy so far has sent the following buses to do Rutgers Service. Former Academy Airport Novas 1026-1031 are now being used at Rutgers as 1036-1041 in a brand new paint scheme as well. These Novas are owned by Academy. How you can tell they were airport buses is that they still have the yellow light on the roof of the bus.
[So, these were a different batch of Novas purchased directly by Academy, rather than leased out units by NJT? Forgive me for asking such a stupid question, but I have NJT-owned #1003-1025 listed as Academy/22 Hillside and NJT-owned #1026-1035 listed as HAML (which will be changed shortly). That's what has me just a wee bit confused.]
Tsk. The RU students now don't remember the good old days of the GM fishbowls. I wish I had heard when they were scrapping them, I'd have bought an old RU fishboul.. Artics and air conditioning, those students nowadays are being totally coddled! :-)
-Dave
Ack! They scrapped those? That's a shame! Then what, pray tell, did they do with their 1975-76 Flx New Looks? I know at least one of them originally came from GLTC in nearby Lynchburg, VA. Any word on these?
-F.
They're gone too. They were the following #'s
7057, 7082, 7126 ("long" rear side window)
7343, 7345, 7353, 7359, 7374, 7375, 7378, 7379, 7380, 7401, 7403, 7413, 7420, 7875 ("short" rear side window)
When I was there they had all of those plus a load of GM fishbowls in the high 800s... maybe 875-899? Not sure exactly. They also had 265, 273, 275, 277, 279 IIRC... Some had electric sliding rear doors and others had manual push out doors. They also had 307A and 308A which were like "stretched" fishbowls. I only saw those a couple of times in four years and always on the L bus.
I remember when the got their first Flxible Metro, 3272 I think it was, in the summer of 1991. The route sign said "SPECIAL - HAVE A NICE DAY". I figured it couldn't be an RU bus wishing us a nice day...
When did the Flxible New Looks disappear, and where did they go? And how are the 91 Metros? Bet they're nice!
-F
91 METROs? SIKE!
The only 91 METRO's in Jersey are the 1991 Flxible METRO-C CNGs #NGV1 to NGV5 and they only reside at Hamilton Facility.
The Rutgers units were 1989 Flxible METRO-B Suburbans but only hit the property in 1991.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Rutgers had the following Flxible Metro-B's from NJT: 3258-3260, 3271-3272. 3271 and 3272 were originally assigned to Suburban, but Suburban never really used them and transferred them to Rutgers. I use to see 3258-3260 come to my Junior High School a couple years ago, for what reason I don't know. I guess they used our fields. In addition they had a couple 1981 Grumman 870's, which I believe they have recently retired since Suburban has lost the contract. I know 351 went to Nimco. They had a couple others I believe they were numbered 296, 298, 300, 306, 353, 354 and 355.
Jay D.
How was there such a big fleet number gap? (i.e. 355 to 3258?) Were the lower numbers former NYCTA Grummans? A system change at Rutgers? What happened here?
-F.
3258-3260, 3271-3272 are NJ Transit owned buses and were leased out to Suburban. Buses like 355 are not any of those ex-NYC Transit buses. As, a matter fact Rutgers had about 4 870B's, I have no clue if Academy will be using those units. They had:2080, 2158, 2172, and 2195. I don't know if they are still around, since Suburban lost the contract.
Jay D.
Good call, Trevor; my bad, didn't know. On that note, OOH...89s...YES! I have yet to ride all variations, but so far I like Metro "B"s the best!
-Fred
Today, before I went to the Phillies game at Vet Stadium (which makes Shea Stadium look like Camden Yards in Baltimore), I had a chance to walk over the Ben Franklin Bridge. I'll get to that in a second, but first, here are the highlights of my day - at least the transit related parts of my day:
* - Took the 9:25am 104 bus from West Chester to 69 St Terminal, on Neoplan EB #3152, then caught the Market-Frankford El from 69 St to 8 St.
* - At 8 St, I took the PATCO Speed-Line to City Hall/Camden, which is not normally open on weekends, but was open today between 5am-2pm to accomodate the bridge traffic. Fares during these hours on the entire Speed-Line were free - which is rather ironic since SEPTA raised their base fares today to $2.00 - and as tempted as I was to go all the way out to Lindenwold, then return to Camden, I decided not to.
* - When I got off PATCO at City Hall, NJT was operating shuttle bus service between a parking lot near the E-Centre and the base of the bridge near Cooper St. A supervisor told me there were 10 buses pulling down the shuttle runs - buses used on the shuttles were the Nova RTS-6Bs assigned to Newton Av/Camden. Only official Delaware River Port Authority vehicles and shuttle buses operating between both ends of the bridge were allowed to use the bridge, which was closed to all other vehicular traffic. BTW, NJT turned back all it's Philadelphia bound buses at Camden, probably forcing passengers to transfer to PATCO at Broadway.
* - From one side to the other, it took me about 30 minutes to cross the Delaware River on the Ben Franklin Bridge. I noticed that the shuttle was operated by a private trolley company, however a couple of NJT buses - 1201 and 1205 - were also used.
* - SEPTA was using shuttle buses to take people from 10-Market to 4-Race, however I made the mistake of going to 6-Race instead, so I don't know what kind of buses were used for the SEPTA shuttle. I would have to guess maybe a couple of artics from Allegheny and some NABIs from Callowhill, but I don't know for sure. In any case, I ended up taking another NJT shuttle bus from 6-Race to 8-Market (Baby Nova 2567/Washington Twp). This shuttle bus was operating as a loop from 6-Race, along Market St, and most likely back to 6-Race as a replacement loop for the 4xx lines that weren't operating to Philadelphia.
* - After I got off 2567, I took the El to 15 St, then the Broad St Subway to Vet Stadium - where I saw the Phillies pound the Marlins 8-1 (now, I hope the Mets can beat Atlanta tonight so the Phils can have a 2 game lead over the Braves). Nothing unusual on the return trip back to 69 St, BTW.
* - My return trip to West Chester saw Neoplan EB #3153 pulling that run. Rather odd since I had 3152 on the way into 69 St.
Got a question for ya: I'm going to Philadelphia on July 22 to see the Phillies take on the Mets. I plan to take Amtrak from Penn Station in NY to 30 Street Station in Philly. What would be the easiest way (bus and or train) to get from 30 Street Station to Veterans Stadium? All info would be greatly appreciated.
B37#823Gary
Take the Market-Frankfurt subway eastbound to City Hall, where you get a free transfer to the Broad Street line, which you take southbound to the last stop. There are bus lines parallel to both subway routes, but they would be much slower. LET'S GO METS!
One alternate: Your Amtrak ticket would be good on a SEPTA suburban train from 30th Street to Penn Center, from which you can walk to City Hall to catch the Broad Street line. I don't know how often the suburban trains run on Sundays, so I'd probably stick with the Market-Frankfurt Subway.
"Take the Market-Frankfurt subway eastbound to City Hall...."
as a native Philadelphian, I ask that you please call the line by its correct name of the Market-Frankford line, known locally as the el.
Regional Rail trains run approximately 10-15 minutes, depending on route segment, between 30 St and Suburban Station. It would still cost you $2.00 each way on the Broad St Subway whether you take the El (there is no added fare to transfer between the El and BSS) or if you take the Regional Rail (with your Amtrak ticket, there is no added cost to travel between 30 St and Suburban Station or Market East).
Market-Frankford El (or Subway-Surface trolleys) from 30 St to 15 St, then Broad Street Subway to Pattison. Vet Stadium is right at the end of the BSS.
Thank you all for your help. I greatly appreciate it. Is the fare 2 bucks? Also I heard another way to go: 21 bus to the C? Anybody can explain that info to me-just in case if the subway is out for some strange reason. Thank you so much.
B37#823Gary
The 21 does not operate along Market St, but rather via Chestnut (to Center City/Penns Landing) and Walnut (outbound to 61-Pine or 69 St Terminal). Perhaps you were thinking of the 31, which operates along Market to City Hall.
You are better off taking the El to 15 St, then using the _free_ interchange between the El and Broad St Subway. If you took a bus to City Hall, then transferred to the Subway, it would cost you $2.60 ($2.00 base fare and 60 cents for a transfer).
While I was walking my dog for the night, at 1050pm I saw Private Transportation Bus 218 at 48 St and 39 Ave going towards Queens Blvd on 48 St. Had about 15 people on it. Wondering what it was doing around Queens-isn't Private Transportation operated in Brooklyn?
218 looked like an Orion 1. Sign said Not in Service. Fan trip perhaps? Info would be appreciated.
Q104#418Gary
Don't know what it was doing in Sunnyside since it is a Brooklyn based company. Would have to assume a charter.
According to a private (no pun intended) e-mail with Trevor awhile back he told me that Private Transp. is now running some Orion I's. Believe they came from upstate NY.
Prior to obtaining these buses Hart Bus here in Suffolk was the only NY-Metro area operator with Orion I's #301, 302 & 303.
Hope to see everyone at 1 PM Wednesday if the thunderstorms hold off till late in the PM.
Prior to obtaining these buses Hart Bus here in Suffolk was the only NY-Metro area operator with Orion I's #301, 302 & 303.
Command/Varsity has a pair (901 & 902), though I'm not sure they count for "regular service." I've seen them around Downtown Brooklyn/DUMBO with the destination sign reading "Human Resources Administration" or something to that effect.
Sounds similar to the run that Red & Tan lines had from Court Street to Main Street (Unemployment Office) Brooklyn several years ago. I saw one of the Private Transports Orion I's s/b on Vanderbilt Ave heading into the Grand Army Plaza as I was exiting north onto Vanderbilt. Didn't catch the # but IIRC it was basically white with a small red and a small blue stripe around the middle of the bus. Looked sharp.
Saw one of their Orion Is on the BQE/Gowanus approaching the Battery Tunnel last night and other nights.
Probably in service on their NYC franchised B-110 route headed to Williamsburg. Probably poster FDNY has the actual route, but I think they are allowed to use streets if there is a blockage on the highways. That's why I saw a coach S/B on Vanderbilt. Probably came south from Park Avenue (Brooklyn). Once saw a bus N/B at Carlton and DeKalb. When I posted about it, the answer was the off-highway response.
[Prior to obtaining these buses Hart Bus here in Suffolk was the only NY-Metro area operator with Orion I's]
Although somewhat far out in the NY-Metro area, Transport of Rockland had AND STILL HAS a few Orion I's. I think they are numbered around 112-115. They can usually be seen on the #59 route, even on Saturdays, although more often you will usually see a TOR Gillig.
I went over to Belmont Raceway today and was quite surprised to see that no former MTA-RTS buses were on the road-just former Red and Tan NJT Buses. Going to the Racetrack, I had 2028 which had 2 numbers- 2028 and 613. Bus sounded just like an RTS-only thing was that the back doors were broken. Also the seating was very similar to an Orion- 1 seat on the right side and 2 rows of seats on the left. Of course the bus had no a/c so it was 90 degrees out and inside the bus felt like 120. Then the rains came and decided to go back. Had Bus 2266. Seats were 2 on each side-blue and the seat that I sat in were very loose. This time the back doors were working.
2 questions:
1. Why would they run crap like this? I know it's only to go from parking lot to the raceway but still the buses should be in better shape than what they're in now.
2. Anybody have a complete roster of Jetway Transit?
Your help would be greatly appreciated.
B61#823Gary
2028 sounds like it used to be a NYCTA Grumman which if it is,one has finally come home after 17 yrs.
Both 2266 and 2028 are ex NJT buses from the recently retired 870 fleet.
2266 used to be Salem County Community Bus Service
2028 used to be with Comunity Coach
Tone,
www.Transitworld.org
[Both 2266 and 2028 are ex NJT buses from the recently retired 870 fleet.]
Steve is right - 2028 is a former NYCTA Grumman, as is 2266. All of NJ Transit's Flxibles in the 1500, 1600, 2000-2500's were former NYCTA Grumman 870's.
If these two buses are from Red & Tan, they probably ran in Newark Airport substitute monorail service while the Monorail was down for repairs not too long ago.
It is true that those 2 buses are ex-NJT units, but those 2 were operated by contractors: 2028-Community Coach 2266-Salem County
Yes it is, there are pictures of both of these buses at transitworld.org for viewing while at te auction lot in 2000.
Tone
www.transitworld.org
No these never ran for Red and Tan and did the airport route, I believe they went straight to Jetway along with 1607 and 2202 from which I heard from. These buses never hit the airport.
Tone
www.transitworld.org
Do these cool Grummans run all day long ?
Is there a schedule somewhere ?
How many are used at most ?
thanks Luke
the jetaway RTS's 13?? and 24?? were sitting in the far end of the aqueduct lot last saturday morning as i attended teh computer show there
Is RTS Slopeback 5200 (former Port Authority #52) hiding anywhere? It was repainted last July-August so I doubt that they would junk it after investing money in it.
I doubt that there is a roster anywhere. I think that they buy buses on the cheap and run them into the ground, then buy more. Their faciltiy on Foster Ave and 102nd (?) street is a horror. It's a body shop for anything that comes in. The parking lot has a lot of school mini-vans and a few full size school buses. They too look like sh**. I suspect that the buses are parked overnight at what ever location they service and are only brought to Brooklyn for major repairs.
Perhaps if the buses are so poorly maintained you should complain to the New York Racing Authority so that some kind of pressure can be brought to bear on Jet-Away to improve service or perhaps even replace them with a better operator. The Port Authority did that with Caravan Transport several years ago because of poor service.
I remember Caravan Transportation had a depot on Archer Ave in Queens. They ran school buses and ex NYBS Fishbowls. I always wondered whatever happened to them. Now I know. Thanx.
According to a driver I spoke to at the Dunkin' Donuts on Bushwick and Halsey street one AM (he drove a school bus), Caravan got thrown out due to utter stupidity. They bid and won the contract. They hired drivers for the additional work. Rather then sending their experienced school bus drivers out to JFK, they sent the new guys. Between poor service and a high frequency of accidents, the PA dropped them.
The driver told me they lost the contract at Philadephia's airport for the same reason.
It appears that they are returning to the yard at the corner of Bushwick Ave / Eastern Parkway that they abandoned about one year ago.
The yard now has some sort of siding attached to the chain-link fence and fresh barbed-wire on top. Don't know if they got rid of the few Amtran(?)modified pusher-type red/white school buses that were used in PA service. They were left on the property and were pretty well vandalized before Caravan came back.
Thanx for the 411 on Caravan Transportation. If they are coming back, it will be interesting to see what kind of second hand buses they will use. I assume the ex NYBS fisbowls were scrapped years ago.
Hopefully I'm not veering to far off topic to answer the question. What I was able to see from a drive by was all yellow school buses,which was Caravan's main business anyway, not any transit related buses. The address painted on them was changed from "Eastern Parkway Extension" to "Snediker(?) Avenue". Don't know if they've picked up more school routes and now need this yard again or they've moved back.
So you're saying that the fishbowls were used for those airport runs when they had the contract. I wondered at the time what was a school bus company doing with mass transit coaches. They were a small operation, not like AE, which is much bigger and they do both.
Didn't know that Caravan had fishbowls at the airports. The only transit buses I saw in for service at the Eastern Parkway Facility were the white/red pusher-type school buses (AmTrans?) and various colored New Flyer Low Floors.
The date(s) have been firmed up as Tuesday July 10th with a rain date of Thursday July 12th.
Here is the route plan:
I'll be leaving from Main Street on the Flushing line (#7) at 4 PM. So any who want to join me on a
Red Bird ride please be, either on the East end of the platform (with in fare control), or near the new
booth on the East end. I'll talk you thru some of the sights along the way.
Next I'll arrive at Times Square about 4:45, where I'll take the 8th Avenue Express, A, to Jay Street
Brooklyn. I probally won't be waiting for any particular type of train. There I'll be doing a light supper
at Burger King which is one block down a cross street from Jay.
6 PM our trip starts in earnest at Jay Street. I plan to catch the first R-38, i.e. Railfan Window equiped
train after 6. We'll make one stop at Rockaway Blvd. to see where A splits off to Leffert's Blvd, and
view the old LIRR ROW (some in disuse, some in use by TA). Hopefully the next R-38 won't make
us wait too long. Back on our way we'll cross Jamaica Bay and head for Far Rockaway.
Now it's time for LI Bus N33 to take us accross the inlet and down Park Street in Long Beach. We'll
see the area change form cramped summer cottages to fine homes to shops and fine resturants. Our
destination is the LIRR Long Beach station. Here it's either a short walk to the beach or a ride on the
City of Long Beach bus. There's a place right on the Boardwalk to wet your whistle or get a Ice
Cream ... they serve food, but I need to determine when the kitchen closes.
We'll need to walk back because the bus makes a big loop before it heads back to the LIRR station.
Here we have two choices:
- LI Bus N15 will connect with N4 at Merrick Road in Rockville Centre. This will bring you back to
Jamaica ... I'll be taking this route, as it drops me off two blocks from home.
- LIRR, for about $4 you'll get a lovely ride to Jamaica where you can catch the LIRR to Atlantic
Avenue, or Penn Station. The E, J & Z are also available there.
It's going to be one of the best ways I know of to enjoy a subway/bus ride & a warm summer night.
Join us by yourself or with a date, it will be fun. I already have a "core" group signed up, so the trip
will be on the dates above unless both are rained out, but I would love to have more of my Sub/Bus
Talk friends join us.
Thurston Clark - Tour Coordinator
Lets here it from some of my BusTalk friends ! Here's your chance to be part of a fun fan trip ... the subway ride across Jamaica Bay is enjoyable even if it is in a subway. Have you ever rode on LI Bus or the City of Long Beach ?
We'll end up on the Boardwalk at Long Beach ... a nice place for a stroll or a bike ride (they have a special lane down the middle of the Boardwalk). They leave the volleyball nets up, so bring some friends & a ball or just take your shoes off & get your toes wet.
Just a little summer fun, come and enjoy with us.
Mr t__:^)
Sounds nice I'll be there. Never been on the City of Long Beach buses, should be interesting. Hopefully the weather will cooperate.
Well I took a little trip today to Queens Village STATION Today. Well here's the Buse that I rode on that Little Trip This Morning.
Frist off. I got on #7007 on Q46 on Run #023. Sort of a Good Bus. Just a bit after Bell Blvd. It felt like VIBRITEING as the bus went over a BUMP!! Got off at Springfield Blvd.
Then I wait 2 Minutes for a Bus to Queens Village to come and got on Orion5 #633 on Q27 on Run #X. Run X? There is no run on Q27 that is run X. Or X stands for Extra. Got off at Queens Village Station.
Then I stood there for 45 Minutes and by that time. I got on #612 on the LIRR SHUTTLE. #612 just got a coat of Paint on it and the ride went FAST. Only Me and 2 Other People got on #612. And by time came to Hillside Shops stop Only 1 Person broad the Bus. Got off at Jamaica Station.
Then 15 Minutes later. Orion5 #5513 on Q60 came. The Bus have started at Jamaica Station instead of starting at 109 Ave. It was only me on the bus. Then at Jamaica Ave stop 1 Person got on. The stop after Jamaica Ave stop 1 more person got on. At the Main St stop. 10 People got on. I got off at 83 Ave and went home.
For Buses I saw today,and Buses on LIRR SHUTTLE Today. See the next post.
Here's the Buses I saw today. I only going to tell some of the Buses that I saw today since I saw LOT's of Buses.
Saw Nova RTS#9294 on X68.It seems like X68 is running more often with Nova RTS Suburbans.
When I was on #7007.I Saw #1852 on X68!!. That's VERRY RARE TO SEE THE 1982 RTS SUBURBAN ON X68 NOWINDAYS.
When #7007 was at a traffic light. I saw Queens first Repowered Bus. #8375 on Q46 at the Traffic light going to KG!! I got a good look at it for a minute. Not only it was Repowered. It got a New Coat of Paint. And something I never saw before. The window on the left have #8375 on the Window!! I never saw that before. And I ALMOST Got off #7007 at 168 St.
As I was waiting for a Bus going to Queens Village to come. I saw #4448 on Q27 going North!! Seems like #4448 have been running on Q74,Q44,Q32,and now Q27.
See the other post for Buses on LIRR SHUTTLE Today.
Saw Nova RTS#9294 on X68.It seems like X68 is running more often with Nova RTS Suburbans.
Since we are short on buses, the 140 Orion Series buses, (some of) which have no fareboxes are used on the LIRR shuttle, which has extremely low ridership and is fare-free. The 600 Orion series buses have been unofficially assigned to the Q46, Q79, Q75 and X68, which help the situation. However, I have seen the Nova coaches on the local routes here and there.
Basically, we were assigned coaches to provide local service.
At 8AM, a bus is a bus!
I already gave a long diatribe on 1852 being on the X68. On a positive note, 9287, 9290 and 9292 were on the 68 as well.
Bus 4448 was spotted a few times by yours truly on the Q27 as well as the Q13. If you ask me (and no one has) 4448 should go to QV in exchange for an Orion (albeit a suburban). It makes no sense for Stengel to store parts for one RTS bus. It also makes no sense to send it all the way to YUK (they have RTS's and local Orions) in a one-for-one, 50+ mile bus swap, so no one suggest that either.
Finally, the "8375" you saw on the window was mistakenly left on there by the paint shop. They stick the bus numbers on the window in an effort to make them readily identifiable during the paint process. QV will likely remove it.
Mark
Like I said 8375 does not have a number board in the rear. Guess they forgot to put 1 up.
As far as 4448 is concerned, it could perhaps go back to GH with the other 4400s. Honestly, I think her life will end in CS Depot as the Orphan. Should go to QV but that won't happen.
Q46#8375Gary
Q32#4448Gary
If you ask me (and no one has) 4448 should go to QV in exchange for an Orion (albeit a suburban).
I'm sure 4429 would appreciate the company. I agree with you, and have no idea why CS has an RTS orphan.
Finally, the "8375" you saw on the window was mistakenly left on there by the paint shop [......] QV will likely remove it.
Yeah sure... that sticker will be there until it fades away, or someone rearranges the digits and they lose their grip.
The Buses that I saw running on the LIRR SHUTLE Today.
QV- #3824,#612,#627.
JAM- #4323,#4535.
The only bus I got on the LIRR SHUTTLE was #621 as said in the other post. And I saw #3824 going to Queens Village in Jamaica. All the other buses that I saw was at Queens Village Station.
And I think that the 100 Series Orion5 Suburbans at QV could have been sent out to be Repower. I do recall #144 being repowered and mayby that could be the only 100 Series Orion5 Suburbans out of QV running. So the others should be back on the road by end of July.
Bus 4323 is NOT with Jamaica! It is with QV. Wait!!!----4323 was scrapped, right?
Ray
Re-check your numbers: 4323 is long since been scrapped and its a QV bus. Bus 4535 is in Manhattan...always has been
Mark
Then I wait 2 Minutes for a Bus to Queens Village to come and got on Orion5 #633 on Q27 on Run #X. Run X? There is no run on Q27 that is run X. Or X stands for Extra.
Some of the run boxes are very old or worn. The plastic film which is rolled via two thumbwheels can move when the bus vibrates or hits a pothole. What might have started out as run "[blank] [blank] [ 2 ]" or "[blank] [ X ] [ 2 ]" shifted to the visible "X" you saw.
Many times, in order to hold the run number in place, we use the plastic supports that hold the overhead cardboard advertisements in place. Lodging one of those (or even a folded transfer) will keep the knob from turning and hold the run number.
If u see the bus run number say (X01) or (101) or (201) mean the driver get about 2 or 3 trips. If u see the bus run number say (001) or (002) or (099) mean driver get about 6 or more trips each days. X doesn't mean extra it mean short trips. For example like M101 is splits from Manhattanville & Amsterdam (AM only). Amsterdam Depot send out about least 6 buses to run on M101 AM only & all of them run with Run X01 to X06 than Manhattanville Depot send out least 70 runs all days starting from Run 001 to 070. The problem is that they are short of buses & driver.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
...and your point being??? BTW no one cares what you do for a living and unless you are an OFFICIAL representative of NYCT on this forum I suggest you lose the bs after your name.
Peace,
ANDEE
Needs to show off his knowledge to us... that's all.
You're incorrect, David. Any run beginning with "X" is indeed an "Extra" run (hence the obvious). An extra or "X-piece" may or may not have a short destination.
Also, when you see "101", that means this is run 001 split-route from another garage.
"Also, when you see '101', that means this is run 001 split-route from another garage."
Usually, but not always. Some schedules have 101 or more runs on their own, such as the M-15 Weekday, which operates entirely out of 126th Street Depot.
David
I stand corrected! However remember, I work in a garage that could combine 4 routes and still not have 100+ runs LOL!
How sad...
DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME?????? Someone post it here about what X mean & don't you ever say that F***ing word on me OK!!!!!! Show a respect to every body on BUSTALK/SUBTALK. Im not here to show off or some bulls**t & if they want to know what that mean & i will tell them what that mean.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
BTW: I don't have no problem with other people here & who ever say some bad thing than go F*** your self & leave other people alone.
WHOA! I don't think "SUBWAYSURF" meant any disrespect. He was actually giving good advice, though the term "bs" may be offensive to some. Putting "NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning" at the end of a post can lead some people to believe that the poster was posting as an official representative of NYCT making an official statement, when, in fact, that is not the case.
As it happens, I am an employee of NYCT -- in a managerial capacity. However, whenever I mention that fact in a communication on this board (and it usually isn't necessary to mention it at all), I always point out that what I am saying represents my own thoughts/opinions/whatever and that I am not acting in my capacity as an employee of NYCT...like right now :-)
David
>>>Putting "NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning" at the end of a post can lead some people to believe that the poster was posting as an official representative of NYCT making an official statement, when, in fact, that is not the case.
<<<
Thank You, my point exactly. But, judging from the tirade that I got as a response I see the advice is falling on deaf ears.
Peace,
ANDEE
[Amsterdam Depot sends out about least 6 buses to run on M101 AM only....]
Actually, the Amsterdam M101 trips are not extras but RUNS on the M104. They're not needed for northbound service on Broadway, so they're "interlined" to help out the M101.
However, Amsterdam DOES have AM extras on the Bx3 and Bx13.
Amsterdam does have 3 AM extras that is Bx3 & i don't know about Bx13. I used to assignmment to Bx3 on run X01 couple months ago at Amsterdam Depot & i work only 3 trips.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
M101 or M104. Doesn't matter much to me anyway. All I know is that those "X-tras" leave me a walk - up - a - steep - hill short of my daily destination. Taking nothing away from the knowledge gained with an explanation of those mysterious run numbers.
There are 7 runs from the M104 that return as m101's in the morning rush. Those runs are 12,14,x1,x2,x3,x4,and 26 run.
There are 87 runs on the M101 from MTV and Amsterdam has had these morning runs on the m101 for YEARS, way before MTV was assigned the M101's.
These x's are assigned in the morning for supplemental reasons and NOT because there is a shortage of operators and MTV.
NYCT/MABSTOA Transportation/supervisor-dispatcher
Hey, Mr. Mabstoa! Does Domenick still have the post at Penn Station? What about Franklin? Is he still peering through binoculars looking down from 145th? LOL!
I don't Dominick picked Penn Station this pick, but he did have it last pick.
I don't know who Franklin is.
Maybe someone can help me out on this. Planning to come to New York for the Macys fireworks. Are there any special bus service going to the East River area? Espeially from Penn station? I know the M34 runs down 34th street.
I caught sight of #405 on the M1 this afternoon. It had a Amsterdam sticker on it and i know its from that garage. My question is, is it a loner to MCH, or is Amsterdam losing buses early cause eventually they are to close?
MaBSTOA has quite a few routes that share extra runs with other depots. What you spotted on the M1, is one of MANY anomolies that take place every day. To my knowledge, AMS has a few X-pieces on the M1, M4, M101, Bx3, Bx11 and Bx13. I'm not sure if MCH has any extras on the M4 and M10 any more--they did at one time.
Mark
I also saw #405. Only it wasn't on the M1. It was on the M7 right outside Harlem Hospital at around 1930 hrs yesterday evening.
Amsterdam depot does not have any X's on the M1. 405 is just on loan to MCH. Currently at the MCH depot we have a shortage of buses because 6 of our rebuilds need to have A/C fire suppression systems installed in them. Somehow someone at Zerega forgot to install these systems only for the A/C systems and one of the rebuilds was destroyed in a fire (203) several weeks ago on the Bronx.
By the way, Zerega Av. is staffed by OA/TA personnel so this one is not MABSTOA's fault!
So what now with 203???? Scrap??/ Repair??
The body of 203 was destroyed by the Fire Department (roof and all windows smashed). But because the engine was new it will be salvageable however the body will be used as a tomato planter.
461 was returned to Amsterdam today after finishing a trip on the M1 and 426 is still with us.
If anyone gets a picture of former Stengel bus Orion 203 in it's "Tomato Planter" state, let us know where its posted.
We Stengel riders are very possessive about our rolling stock that leaves the nest (that's why we brought #225 back 3 times after it left).
flx7595
So maybe we have our first Orion scrap? Answer to a trivia question on this board 10 years from now.
But then again 144 had a fire and is back, and 8808 was wrapped around an el pillar and has returned, so who knows?
But then again 543 still sits at Stengel with fire damage.
Add #125 out with fire damage from YUK/Edgewater - dunno if it has been fixed yet
Also 543 which is still out at CS Depot all burnt looking.
Q32#514Gary
This morning I was up on Hillside Avenue picking up some supplies to dry out my flooded basement. The usual scene of buses were around, including Orion suburban 613 on the Q75. I thought nothing of it at first, since the Q75 has been running coaches quite often lately. Orion 613 on the 75--no biggie, until to my amazement, I spotted 1852 on the X68 (Run 004). It was making its second trip to Manhattan (9:00am out of 268 St). Thinking I must've misread the destination sign, I followed and passed the bus around 165 Street, and yes, it was an X68 (2 green "Express" cards were clearly visible in the windshield)!
Being a TA employee, I must say nothing is supposed to surprise me, but HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN??? QV has more than 30 Orions and Novas. How is 613 on the Q75? How is 612 and 627 on the LIRR Shuttle? How is the Q79 running Novas/Orions, while NINETEEN year-old 1852 is on the X68? Who is the yard man at QV and what was he smoking this morning? Maybe, Brooklyn67, you can answer this one!
Mark
From what I heard, the yard man is new and he doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Last Tuesday 1852 was on the Q46 for a night run.
I can't figure this 1 out: 3977 3982 and 4337 have been scrapped. 1751 1767 1773 and 1852 have not been touched. What keeps these 4 buses still chug their way around in Queens beats me.
Q46#1852Gary
The AM yard (who has always worked the PM yard) switched with the PM yard (who has always worked the AM yard), so everything's a bit chaotic downstairs (as I understand from a few friends).
Anyway, from what I can tell, the LIRR shuttle has suburban priority.
One possible reason may have been 4/x68 was a new driver, hence the old bus. S/he would have to "prove" him/herself before having the "privelage" of driving a "new" bus. The idea here is, crack up 1852 if you're gonna crack up a bus.... But I can't give you any factual information about why 1852 was on the express while express coaches were in service on local routes. If I asked that yard SLD, I'd probably get some blank stare... LOL
Is there any chance that it was 4/43 using "Express" signs rather than "Limited" signs? I know a few guys who do that up on the Pike. I would tend to doubt that anyway, because 4/43 most prbably would pull-out early enough to get a decent bus, but again.... you never know.
You guys who are so interested in this should come down to the garage one morning and watch the AM pull-out. You can watch right from 97th Avenue, which is a public street. For those who aren't familiar with QV, 97th Avenue, just off 222nd Street, is the ONLY way a QV bus can pull-out. There is public parking (albeit a limited number of spots) right there at the opposite foot of 97th Ave. There's nothing wrong with watching the buses run-on, or even chatting with the AM yard (if he's so inclined, but would be extremely busy at this time).
The hottest day of the year in metro phoenix ranging from 116 - 118 on 7/2/01. All of the buses survived the heat and the 78 degree A/C on the NABI's is excellent!
I went through D4000's roster numbers on his Tranistalk website. And when I came across the depot list for Fresh Pond, I just had to shake my head in amazement. Now, somebody answer these multiple choice questions:
1. How did a ton of '83-'84 GMC RTS coaches and '85-'86 TMC RTS coaches wind up over there, and not the newer ones?
a) Jay Street doesn't like FPs drivers and the passengers they carry
b) Drivers and depot supervisors got together to keep the 1999 Novas away from the premises
c) The '83s - '86s just didn't want to leave
2. In light of NJTs problems with their Cummins - powered RTS coaches, how are 9140 - 9149 performing?
a) better than average
b) average
c) worse than average
d) "Why did they ever send us these pieces of ****!"
Hi folks,
I live in New Zealand in Auckland with 800 buses, mostly MAN and Mercedes run by Stagecoach. Interesting buses are the 34 artics and the new 800 series stretch 49 seaters with a tag axle.
I'll try to add some photos later.
Regards, Peter.
Sounds pretty cool! :)
I did not know Auckland had that big of a transit system. If you could, post any photos or any info on the way the Auckland buses are numbered.
What does the NEW Orion VII bus sound like? It looks like a C40LF bus at Jackie Gleason. Does it sound the same?
Ray
It depends on what kind of Engine and Transmission Combination is picked. The only people who know what this bus sound like are the workers at the Orion Plant!!!!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Yesterday, I was suppose to go to Boston, however I missed my train by a split second, So I decided to dilly around the city for stuff I've never photographed before, HARD BECUASE I'VE BASSICALLY DONE IT ALL!
So I decided to hop aboard a Bee Line BxM4C To White Plains, Bus #905, great ride, very smoot and fast. When we arrived to White Plains, I hopped off the bus, onces the doors closed I'd realized I didn't have my camera in my posession anymore. UGH! I took a quick glimps at the bus and read "Not In Service" which meant he was heading back to the garage. GOOD! I hit the cell phone and made some quick calls. Got the location of the bus and what garage it was heading out to. Ended up it was out of the Vahalla Garage. So I figured out how to get there and off I was. After about a 20 minute ride on the 14 bus (Orion V #425), The driver had put me off at the depot.
After arriving at the depot (VERY CLEAN AND ORGANIZED OPERATION), I'd went to the depot masters office and picked up my camera, they allowed me to take some photos on the property after flashing that NJT Employee pass, My findings were the Repainted Flxible #779, The Only Lonely Orion II #311, and just some other basic things. After shooting the photos, I went back to the depot master to ask what time is the next 14 heading back to White Plains and he said, forget that, I'll have a driver take you back on one of our buses, WOOO HOOOO! A Freaking Limo Bus! The Limo ended up being Orion #424, the driver was a 32 year veteran and was very pleasant to ride with. After arriving back to White Plains, I had some lunch at the Galleria and did some more shooting before heading Back citybound on Metro North.
After seeing the operation at Bee Line, I'm a strongly considering loosing NJT for Bee Line as a Bus Operator, the starting pay is lovely, You are guarenteed 40 hours per week plus over time and Everyone is sooooo nice.
The rest of the Flopped Mission Monday included some shooting of the R-142As on the (6) Line and riding with a conductor collegue on the (5) Line.
Regards,
T.Lo (A New Bee Line Fan)
www.transitalk.com
I had the chance to visit Bee Line's facility a few years ago and was really impressed as well. They showed me the Jackie Gleason bus, plus a few others that were in the process or had been repainted. They had a security person take me to the money room as well. Most of the MCI's at that time were wrapped, not sure if they are still that way or not. The BxM4C is one nice ride. Seeing Yankee Stadium on the way in to the city was a great site. I don't want to start any Yankee/Met thing, but not having ever seen that stadium in person was a treat.
Im glad that u found your camera. Sorry aboutthe lateness......
Its ok man! We still chilled and that's all that counts!
T.
I always knew that BL keeps their equipment well maintained, but if the employees are as nice as you say, then I need to put in an application with them. Why waste my time putting in for Suffolk Transit?
I never said anything about nor was I gonna put in a application with Suffolk (YUCK!), I'm currently a New Jersey Transit Employee, and is really not happy with the operations there.
So I've placed applications with Bee Line, Triboro Coach and Hudson Bergen Light Rail (even though a NJT Operation but I'd be a 21st Century Rail Employee not NJT).
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
You was talking about you! LOL!
DON'T DO IT, DO BEE LINE!!!!!
LOL!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
All my riding experiences with NJT have been good ones. Well at least compared to LI Bus.
See NJT looks good on the outside, But it's sickening to the stomach what goes on, on the inside.
I have to get outta NJT before I hurt someone!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
I know that you never said anything about going to ST. I was considering putting in an application with them. No harm done. I'm just trying to find the BL web page so I can see if they are hiring drivers.
They are! This was from the Depot Master at the Vahalla Garage!
T.Lo
Thanx. I owe ya.
I plan to attend if it is pouring out, will the BusFest be held? :-\
I belive if it does rain it will be like busfest 99.
Well rain or shine, I doubt that I'll be attending as I'm home with a 101.5 fever. If I feel very well tomorrow after a good nights rest, I may change my mind and go but right now that seems to be unlikely.
Let me sleep on it. If I do go, I'll be wearing a Baige NYM Hat that says Mets 2000 National League Champs. If not then the next 1 is definitely for me.
B68#823Gary
Well. The weather don't look good. I heard RAIN RAIN RAIN!! With some Thunderstoms. So if you go. They may make you turn around and go back.
I need to know,what are the hours,and how late,,will it be open ??
11 AM-5 PM on the block that houses the Transit Museum: Schermerhorn Street between Boerum Place and Court Street in Downtown Brooklyn.
David
Thank you ,,David and anyone else
Looking for sources of watches used by bus operators and motormen. Anyone know where these come from? THanks!!
Probably the same sources that most people obtain watches.
Personally, I wear a $29 Casio digital variety, but I'm thinking you were referring to the large-faced mechanical type that is suspended on a belt encased in a leather pouch? If so, there are a few guys who sell them (and other transit-related items), and who travel from depot to depot peddling their wares. I suppose you could get them near the Transit Museum or in the many shops along Jay/Willoughby/Livingston Streets, etc.
Theres a dude on Flatbush and Flatlands that sells the leather pieces for badges and stuff like that. Maybe he has those watches too.
as driver at UP told me a guy comes around and sells them-charges about 40 to 60 dollars for them-depending on depot you wish.
There has been a lot of talk about Nova buses. Could someone please tell me a little about them. I saw a NJT spec RTS bus laying over near the Javits Center one afternoon. Is that the Nova bus, or is it a next generation RTS bus? I saw one in NYCT livery, but I couldn't figure out who makes it. Didn't look like an Orion or New Flyer.
NovaBus is the manufacturer that produces the RTS and LFS.
I guess you know what the RTS looks like. The LFS is a low-floor bus with a rounded, slanted front windshield (vaguely like the RTS), and straight sides.
There was 1 or 2 LFS demos in NYC, but I think they're gone now.
I think it was the LFS demo that I saw. It looked like an RTS, but much bigger and lower. So now I'm in the know. Many thanks.
While on the M2, i caught sight of New Flyer #848 from JG on 4th Ave. The sign said MTA-NEW York City Transit welcomes the Wheelchair games. The run was X18. What was this about?
M2-#6355-Orion VI-run #016
Q32-#454-Orion V- run #002
Q67-#404-OrionV-CNG-run #405(?)
You saw one of the 20 New Flyer C40LF buses for the Special Olympics. There is 20 of these babies with thier seats removed to fit only wheelchair passengers!
This is the reason why you have 20-23 Ulmer Park Nova Suburbans chilling out a Gleason for regular service!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
They are shuttling wheelchair-bound and other athletes from Midtown hotels to Riverbank park (if not more places). Over the weekend they were picking up athletes at LaGuardia and bringing them into Manhattan.
the base fare is now $2.00
"the base fare is now $2.00"
Maybe it's that high because SEPTA doesn't have a big brother Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority to send some money that way.
Bill "Newkirk"
"septa sucks!!!!!!!"
Is this a new revelation ?
I was originally going to post a post that says SEPTA SUCKS
[["the base fare is now $2.00"]]
[Maybe it's that high because SEPTA doesn't have a big brother Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority to send some money
that way.]
No, the real reason the base fare is $2.00 is because the Pennsylvania legislature didn't add the additional funding to SEPTA (and the other transit systems across the Commonwealth) that was requested. I believe the plan was to remove some sort of funding cap for capital funds being transferred to operations (I'll have to check on the specifics and will try to post an addendun tomorrow).
In any case, the proposal to increase the fare to $2.00 was apparently introduced at the last minute. I have a staff summary (forwarded by one of my "moles" at 1234 Market) that notes the $2.00 recommendation was put forth on June 18 - three days before the board approved the rate hike. The hearing examiner recommended that the originally proposed $1.90 base fare be put into effect. In addition, the transfer fee would have been 50 cents instead of 60 cents (which makes a lot more sense, but this is SEPTA we're dealing with here).
[["septa sucks!!!!!!!"]]
[Is this a new revelation ?]
Not really. It's been that way for many eons now.
now, now, SEPTA didn't always suck. I mean, the vehicles are decent and it's improving. That's why I like it. However, the fare increase does put a damper on things, doesn't it. Also, SEPTA has vintage fare machines, which is actually pretty amusing. Anyway, you can diss SEPTA now, but it has the best vehicles.
yes as far as improving vehicles yes. But on time no.
yes i know about that!
That is true...transit funding is really taking a nosedive in this economy. It really blows. Hopefully we will pull through the next four years or so without a lot of TAs going under.
-F.
CRIPES! And I thought 1.25 here was bad. On another note, fares at WMATA in 1997 were as high as 2.50 from Chinatown to the MD line, but I still enjoyed the ride. Just think...at Blacksburg Transit (just 40 minutes down I-81), I can ride all day for just 50 cents.
-F.
for four zones you imaigine what that cast
If the MBTA increases I WILL LEAVE!
If the MBTA increases Its fares I WILL LEAVE!
I don't know how many of you ride intercity buses somewhat regularly, but can you give me the top ten or twenty destinations from New York with the highest ridership?
I don't have exact numbers, but I know from past experience that the Philadelphia-New York corridor frequently has turn-away crowds. Quite a few of those trips leave with full buses. Mt Laurel, NJ is also a high ridership point for Greyhound, though the bulk of those riders are weekday peak hour commuters. There are a lot of peak hours trips from NYC and Wall St that originate or terminate at Mt Laurel instead of Philadelphia. (I don't know if you could technically consider Mt Laurel an intercity point, but it is a Greyhound service.)
Another strong intercity corridor to NYC is the Scranton-Wilkes Barre-Pocono service operated by Martz Trailways. There are a lot of people who commute from the Poconos (Stroudsburg, Delaware Water Gap, Mt Pocono) into New York City daily.
I would also guess that Greyhound/Peter Pan's Boston and Washington corridors are also strong performers.
Besides those listed above, I really couldn't tell you.
You'd also be surprised at how many people ride from NYC to Upstate New York, in particular:
NYC-Albany
NYC-Syracuse and westbound
NYC-Montreal
NYC-Toronto
B61 Leonard
I know this is off topic,but it's along a bus and subway line[B46,B15,A and C trains]at Utica ave/Fulton st. It's being held at BOYS/GIRLS HIGH SCHOOL.Believe me,its a real nice place and you will have alot of fun. So anybody from the area, make a bee line over there and check it out.
dave i love you
Ok, you're talking about the African Street Festival which is held every year around this time. It is held at Boys and Girls High School Field on Fulton St and Utica Ave.
Bus: B15,B25,B40, and B46 buses stop within three blocks of the area.
Subway: A & C to Utica.
B15#4409Mike
B25#4641Mike
B40#3986Mike
B46#4742MikeLimited
As of Monday, 7/2, the 9200 series coach RTS's will no longer be operated on the Q17 as per management. Apparently, there was some minor vandalism but the main reason was too much crowding. Extra coaches will now be made available on the Q42. Also, last week 9262 and 9285 were operating on the Q3, one after another, all though I do not believe this will be the norm either. Signs were plastered all over the yard dispatcher's office informing them not to put any coaches on the Q17. So it looks like the treat the Flushing area residents were getting is finally over.
BIG AL
Its a good thing. Just stand at Main and Roosevelt and watch people board a 9200 coach. Unbelievable........
Yesterday.
While I was a Bus going to New Rochelle. The bus passed by Gun Hill Depot on I-95. And I saw about 7 RTS's parked outside near the Service Road and by a Fence. 7 where TMC RTS's. And those buses did not have a FAREBOX in them. idk if those buses are going to go get Repower or not. BUT I not too shure if these buses could be going to JAM anytime soon. I am hopeing so b/c due to a ban of 9200 Series Suburbans on Q17. And these buses could fill it in. And those buses are in good shape.
And BTW what's up with the Ban on the Q17 for?
So u were ON a bus to new rochelle and while whizzing by GH on that same bus northbound (probably doing 50 or 60 mph), you could look across a highway, and notice that 7 buses had NO fareboxes in them? Even when they are parked in such a way that you can only see the left side of the bus?
Gotcha.
It's Q46 we're talking about here, anything can happen! :-)
Don't even bother, especially when sure is spelled shure! I was done at that point!!!!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Last time I checked, Bee-Line's Route 45 doesn't go anywhere near the Gun Hill Depot which is the ONLY remote was you can go from the Bronx to anywhere near New Rochelle!
If you are gonna tell a story with perfect 20/20 vision of fareboxes whizzing by at 60/70 MPH, make sure the story is consistant, NO CONSISTANCIES, I'm just a whole lotta suspect right now!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
In Q46's defense, he never said he was whizzing at 60-70mph. Knowing I-95, it was probably backed up so he could have been going slow enough to notice that there were no fareboxes in them. However, I don't understand how he could be going to New Rochelle on a bus over there either.
Also, Q46, you only found out about the ban of 9200's from the Q17 by reading my post. Now, read my post again and you will find out why they were banned.
BIG AL
My thoughts exactly
Yeah i know i shoulda given up long ago. The grammar is pretty painful too.
To tell you something. I go to school up there and my School Bus was doing 30 MPH at the time b/c due to a car in front witch was going SLOW!!
There are now 9 80xx buses facing the fences & it look to me they are heading to Jamaica Depot because they already have 8033 & 8034.
Peace
David Justiniano
Did you happen to see NYCT RTS 8087 while you were there?
Had a chance to go to the folklife festtival here in DC to see the NYC display. The first things I see coming off the metro were the NYC Redbird 9056 and the Orion VI 6357. So, before doing anything else, ran to both of those. I forgot the driver's name of the bus, but he was a great guy and had an article from one of the newspapers taped to the outside about him. For some reason, the first name Tony stands out as his name. He drives the M20. He seemed to be enjoying himself and had the motor running with the nice powerful A/C most of the time. I may go back on Saturday to check out everything again, and this time bring my camera.
Was able to feast on NYC food as well. : )
How long is the NYC display is going to be up until when? I need to know b/c I be comming to DC Next Mouth. So I might get a chance to use WMATA and maybe Ride On as well. is Ride On and WMATA is good TA's?
The display runs through this weekend only. Ride On and WMATA are very good systems. Very clean, safe and as reliable as a system can be.
I need the exact times and the location,,
11AM it officially starts, on the block of the Transit Museum (I forgot what it is called but i know where it is...:-\)
I'm wearing green shorts with a dark blue shirt with a yellow "road" sign with a DJ on it, light blue yankees hat. I'll be with Dave's "crew" at 1PM in front of 699...Cyall there!
I can't go to bus fest because im too busy to go to new york. Besides it will be Very VEry VERY crowded.
Bus Fest is crowded every damn year! That Ish never changes so if that is your excuse from coming aside for being busy, You'll never see a bus fest.....!EM YB ENIF
Regards,
T.Lo
Were is a place that I can see a Flxible new look, GMC old look, and a GMC new look?
LOL. ROTFLMAO. U r sick man!!!! LMAO..
I Know, Ain't I Just Bad!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Today while riding back from Connecticut on Peter Pan I saw Bus#870 From Jackie Gleason at 108th Street in Central Park West. Anyone have any idea where it was headed?
Wheelchair games my friend, it's seats were yanked...
Here are the "rules"
1. The scans will be posted as links, and will open a new browser window, so you don't lose your place in BusTalk
2. They will only remain up for 2-3 weeks maximum
3. They are not the entire catalog, only selected pages
4. Because these are pre-printyed materials, the scans will have imperfections due to the halftone dot structure
5. Please refer any questions to me here at BusTalk in the thread of the catalog
Here we go!
KC
Have you considered using your magazine or descreen filter in your scanning or editing software? This usually cleans it up nicely.
-Hank
I've tried that in the past, and it only works well if you make the scans VERY large. I only have limited space on my ftp, so I had to keep the size reasonable.
This is the GMC New Look Transit catalog, I received it August of 1975.
Front cover
The bus on the right 3 shots is NYCTA 8923. I apologize for the "tear" here. I was just a kid, and I enclosed a quarter for return postage, which they taped to the catalog and returned :)
Page 2
Environmental Improvement package
this is a PAT (Pittsburgh) unit
Views from the front
basic interior
Luxury interior
this interior was special ordered by the Northern Virginia Transportation Commission for I-395 express service into DC
Wow....that luxury interior is so...70s.
-Hank
No kidding. Kind of reminds me of the optional Gucci (yes, THE Gucci) interior in the AMC Hornet Sportabout wagon of that era. It's like they skinned the seats with Herb Tarlek's wardrobe from "WKRP in Cincinnati". Very tacky, but neat in its own way.
-F.
Wow! Thanks for those great shot and nice trip into the past. I bought back those wonderful days of GM fishbowls. I also enjoyed seeing the WMATA TDH-5301 on the I-395 HOV lane.
Wayne
Also received August 1975
Cover page
Features NYBS and Public Service/TNJ. Trevor Logan knows the vantage point on the right very well. The Ford dealer sign in the background is now where the Toys R Us is at Kennedy Blvd.
Page 2
Pelham Parkway Bus #702
Page 3
DeCamp Bus #420
The reason NYC/NJ operators were featured is because, as the catalog stated, "[GMC suburbans] are the most widely used commuter vehicles in the metropolitan New York area"
Interiors
Note the non-sliding windows in the lower right shot
Wow....that multicolor seating arrangement sure is funky! I assume that is the inside of a demo for color variation purposes?
Also, that blue reclining seat model below looks really neat; what TA is that from?
-F.
Received this from Flxible in February 1977, just as they were winding down the massive NJDOT order. This was just a spec foldout, not a true catalog. The photos are actual builder's prints, not pre-printed from a catalog
Cover
Model designation page
Sorry about trying to color in the standee windows - I was a kid
Interior builders shot
Eugene Oregon 35 footer
Exterior builders shot
Birmingham Alabama 35 footer
A great bit of literature on my favorite transit bus of all time. Thank you for sharing this with us!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
This was the first 870 sales package. I received this from Flxible in October 1978.
Folder cover
It was contained in this large folder, similar to what you might use in school, except it was huge. the center was a 3/4 front view of the 870 shown - about 18 inches across
870 Catalog cover
Front cover of the actual catalog
"The Seat Story" page 1
A rear-to-front interior shot
"The Seat Story" page 2
This shows the actual unique seats, designed specifically for the 870. They were soon replaced with normal American Seating units
Marta 3001 name
The first production 870 was MARTA (Atlanta) 3001, delivered April 1978
Rear of catalog
Note the slogan Grumman Flxible had: "Builder of Better Buses"
Interior
A front-to-rear shot, this was a reprint of a materials magazine story that Flx used in the sales folder.
I really wanted to scan the assembly line pics of the 870, but they were very small, and black and white too. I'll describe it as best i can.
Each of the four walls was assembled independently - roof, floor, and sides, and they were fully trimmed and furnished (the seats attached to the walls). These four pieces were then slid into a frame jig and attached to each other - roof first, then floor, then sidewalls. The front and rear modules came next, until you had a full six-sided body. This was then lowered onto the 2 subframes (front suspension, and rear suspension/powertrain).
That was pretty cool that they sent you that sales package.
Thanks for sharing.
BTW the Marta 3001 link doesn't work.
sorry about that - repaired!
Cool; very dramatic shot.
-F.
Next batch of catalogs will be:
- 1975 GMC Intercity coaches
- 1979 GMC RTS-03 catalog
- the second 870 catalog
- the 1982 Grumman Metro catalog (they attempted to phase out the name Flxible!)
These will go up in mid to late July.
So who all went, and how'd y'all like it? I think it was better than last years. I also met up with quite a few people (I was the white kid wearing a whie MSNBC shirt, in case you mitta seen me). I liked that there were buses from other companies other than just the NYCTA.
I agree; there seemed to be more non-NYC Bus buses than in past years. The GM Futureliner (Peter Pan) was a pleasant surprise. Had read about it and seen some pictures, but really enjoyed seeing the strange vehicle in person. I'm glad the weather stayed dry, at least while I was there.
It was good meeting many fellow BusTalkers and SubTalkers, both at the 1:00 p.m. meet and before that. When Dave gets the group picture(s) up on the site, perhaps we can try identifying everyone in it, by handle.
Hope all of you who attended BusFest enjoyed it.
Iwas there with my little girl, tried looking for trevor but since i got there about 2pm[my kid had a hard time getting motavated]i guess i missed everybody. ill meat up with you guys someday,i suppose. until then ill just keep bangging away at the keyboard,by the way, my kid?......she realy got a kick out of seeing all those buses. she even asked me if they were gonna be there tommorow!!! got a fan in the makings, guys!
The motley crew:
Well, I also attended the BusFest, between the hours of 3 and 5 P.M., and I was pretty much in heaven. The GM New Look samples which, with one exception (the one with the windows on the roof), had four panels on the rear window arrangement – I made it a point of taking pictures of the aforementioned buses in question. Talk about manna raining down from heaven!
Too bad I couldn't make the meeting. I had to leave at 12:30 for a fun July 4th, day with the family! But, I did get to meet or at least see most of you in this pic, even if you don't remember me.. lol
Had a great day!
By the way, the bearded person with the WB hat in the back between Bill Newkirk and David Pirmann is yours truly, William A. Padron, the R-10 subway car expert who regularly is on SubTalk. Yes, even a SubTalker can make an unnoticed surprised appearence there and on this message board too.
-William A. Padron
["Mr. R-10" of Subtalk fame]
Sorry for not having introduced myself, I was wondering who you were!
-Dave
Dave, Thanks for posting this ... good to SEE a lot of my friends again ! Even the guy behind the camera (Sid from NJ).
Mr t__:^)
Great shot. Very nice editing too, Dave.
If anyone in the picture wants to send Dave an e-mail or post here, identifying yourself in the picture by your handle, that would allow Dave to eventually post the picture on the site with as many handle i.d.'s as possible.
I'm in the back row, sixth from the left, wearing the blue t-shirt with orange lettering.
Greetings from the Mark-N-Ride...I'm the 4th one from the left, front row, black polo shirt holding the bag.
I'd be the one crouching in the front, with the bootleg "E" bullet t-shirt.
Sid, how about your addendum? :)
I had a great time. I enjoyed meeting everyone and seeing all the buses.
It's a shame 5227 didn't make it; those Blitz rebuilds were (and still are) my favorite buses of all time. The two-tone blue Flxible New Look -- my second favorite -- wasn't taking passengers (TA policy, I guess), but the Triboro Coach driver took a few of us up the BQE and LIE to Queens. Boy, was that bus noisy -- I thought we lost a window on some of those BQE pavement joints.
I was one of the others on that Triboro New Look, got off at Roosevelt and grabbed the 7. My friend knew the driver and lived within walking distance of the depot, so we had no trouble getting the ride. I was certainly not expecting such an interesting ride home.
I'm the other one who got off at Roosevelt.
I just casually asked the driver around 4:45 if I could get a ride wherever he was going and he gladly obliged. (I had asked the two-tone blue driver a few hours earlier and didn't get a definitive answer, but when I approached him again at 5 he was quite sure of his answer. That's a good thing, I suppose, since he was going to Staten Island and my ultimate destination was in Manhattan, but I would have done it in an instant.)
It's too bad the ADA chased those things off the road. Except for the rattling windows, that bus ran fine. I'm sure many of the Blitz rebuilds would still be with us today.
I loved 356 Orion Triboro, I think that was it. That was the only one that you could sit in, the brakes went "choo, cuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh choooo" That's all you heard, by the time the fest was over, I'm sure that bus was leaning to the right, and the back door was swining open:-)
3056 CNG Orion 5 Suburban? 3000-3071 are the only Orions that they have in their depot. If it leans to the right sounds and looks like crap then it's definitely a Triboro Coach bus.
I apologize for not making the trip this year as I was home plagued with the flu at such a horrible time. Still feeling ill however.
I will try my best to make it there next year. BTW: What buses were there this year?
Q53#3056Gary
That was MTA LI Bus 356 Orion V CNG that was there. It turned out to be a great day. I also met a few Bus Talkers there. That Peter Pan Futureliner was a suprise. BTW, sorry you didn't make it ,Gary. Catch you the next time. Buses that were there were FAC 303 (1917 DD), FAC 3100, Old Looks 9098 & 7144, Mack 6259, Fishbowls 100, 8928, 8466, Flx Newlook 7340, RTS Command Center 4146, Triboro Fishbowl 621, Harran's Flxible Clipper from the 1950's, Joe Siatta's Flx Newlook 699, Red & Tan's bowl and a bowl from Conn. One more note, on the way to the fest, I saw 8155 freshly painted with the the fleet number "8155" on the drivers side rear window.
Saw the same thing with 8151 by Cadman Plaza on Mon.morning.
Well I was there today too. Saw you guys (after realizing from the picture who you were) by 699. I was wearing shorts and a red shirt with a blue stripe across it. Had aan umbrella too. So If anyone saw me, then you know who I am. I think I made eye contact with Trevor, but not sure.
Selection was great - wished to see some of the newer buses too, like 1201,236,5227,2080, etc.
Rode the B37 after parking my car in Bay Ridge there. Had REPOWERED 8562 going and 590 back.
Spoke with the driver driving 7340 - interesting conversation - to be posted later.
The Red & Tan fishbowl #74 and the fishbowl from Conn (which is an ex-N Y Bus Service bus) are part of Double-A Transportation's historical fleet. Also, I believe the number of the TA RTS Command Center ends in a "9" - perhaps it is 4149, although that doesn't seem right. I'll know for sure when I get my pictures developed.
it's 4149
I have to admit despite the crowds, I really enjoyed BusFest this year. It was great to see an assortment of New Looks. Equally as great was meeting a bunch of fellow Bus & Sub Talkers! Maybe photo opportunities weren't as great, but it was still a fun day!
I arrived with my family around 1:30; too bad I missed the group picture. Having looked at it, I remember seeing some of those people yesterday but didn't realize they were Bustalkers- except for the ones I know on sight, of course. Got to see Dave, Doug, Rich B53, Heypaul and a few others whose handles escape me. The loud sound system often made conversation difficult. BTW, I was the one in the white Mets' T-shirt (couldn't find my HONEYMOONERS' shirt).
There was a good variety of equipment from TA, the privates and from out of town. The Peter Pan and 1954 tour bus were quite interesting. It was nice to see so many Fishbowls again. This Fest seemed on a much bigger scale than previous ones. The midweek holiday and threat of bad weather (which, thankfully, did not come true) may have kept more people in town and raised the attendance.
Unfortunately, the boy was primarily interested in the carnival rides midblock and the two Museum bus mock-ups. He might have OD'd on old buses after May's Orchard Beach Roadeo. The wife got a kick out seeing the 1959 Fishbowl and 1973 Flxible whose ilk she grew up riding in Queens, just like me. The crowds and oppressive heat kept me from reaching the platform level. When the museum undergoes its long-planned renovation, air-conditioning should be a priority.
My wife was somewhat impressed: "Boy, Howard, EVERYBODY knows you!"
I went to the festival at about 1:00pm, missed the photo shoot because my friend did not want to stay and wanted something to eat. So, I missed it, but the festival was great! The music was lively, but I would have expected more current NYCT and no LIBus CNG. It was okay, I rode it before, but I thought it wasn't proper for the festival, at least not this one?
WWEll, I met caine824, I think Sid From NJ, and Bingham C50, which I talked to the whole day. Stayed to see the GM Model 5106 pull out of its slot when the fest was over. Nice sound!
Wait until next year...
CWalNYC
About 10 years ago, the MTA gradually changed over the number routes around Staten Island.
Originally all routes were either in the single digits (S1, S2, S6) or in the hundreds (S107, S113). (I suppose two different private bus companies once divided up the island's bus or trolley routes?)
Then the routes were all re-numbered so riders would know what part of the island they served. But nothing like this was ever done in the other boroughs (other than to rename some of the Manhattan crosstown routes for their street numbers).
Why was this done for Staten Islland and not for another borough? It seems foolish to me for the expense and I don't know if customers even care.
Craig
-
Unlike other boroughs where most routes criss-cross and do not stay in one specific geographical area, just about all of the SI routes with the exception of the 59 and the 60 and maybe i'm forgetting one but i don't think so, originate at the Ferry. This makes it easy when everything starts in the same place to have a numbering scheme like that.
The only routes that don't serve the Ferry terminal are the 53, 54, 55/56, 57, 59 and 60. Of these, the only one that serves the 'other' two Staten Island (local) bus hubs (the Mall and Port Richmond Square) is the 59. The 55/56 serves the Mall only.
-Hank
Don't forget the S79 - Goes to Brooklyn - Not St. George
You're right, I forgot it. Used to go to the ferry, though...
And it only serves the SI Mall, as Staten Island bus hubs go.
-Hank
Actually, sometime in the 80's, all routes in the Bronx were changed. I don't know why! The only one that I can remember that stayed the same was the BX1, BX2, BX41 and BX55. For example, the BX32 used to be the BX29 and the BX15 used to be the BX34(or something in the 30's) Can someone explain this?
B61 Leonard
Wrong the now BX15 used to be the old BX29
I knew it was different than what it is now. You're right. I think the BX32 used to be the BX34.
B61 Leonard
This can't be true because the BX6 was the BX34.
-The only reason the MTA switched S.I.Routes is for money which is very sad
Please post when you know what you're talking about. They were switched for ease of identification, reasons given in a previous post. Additionally, many routes went through major changes; this being about the time the feds said that the TA couldn't run pure school trips. The only routes that had only a number change since 1985 are the s42 (s101) and the s66 (s6) if you don't count a change in service hours.
And it cost a significant amount of money to effect the change, as this was the days of the roll sign. It was about 6 months before all the older buses had real signs.
-Hank
The Staten Island numbers were switched for marketing reasons. The concept was as follows.
S 40's-North Shore
S 50's-North to South Shore(Cross-Island)
S 60's-Victory Blvd
S 70's-South Shore
S 90's- Limited Stop Service.
Thank You
Attended my third Bus Fest today.
I thought the selection of Buses was great. I'm glad to see that a Mack was there again.
Today seemed to be more crowded than the other two fests, which I think is great.
Does anybody know if the TA has a Bronx Mack in their fleet? Its always interesting to see the differences between MABSTOA buses and NYCTA buses.
2000 model year New Flyer articulated buses nos 5506,5507,5508 & 5509 have returned to 126th Street Depot from Kingsbridge Depot. In addition, the parking lot across the street from the depot and adjacent to 126th Street, has been extended so that it stretches from Second Avenue to Third Avenue. Whether or not all of this activity means that 126 is preparing to receive it's allotment of articulateds
is not clear at this time but it would indicate that the day is drawing near.
Anticipation of heavy crowds on the M15 during the summer prehaps(that bus those get alot of tourist especially the South Ferry Branch)
Last night, during Law and Order, there involved a scene with a bus. I'm pretty sure the number was 4999. It definately was a PA one. And it looked like the sticker was from Castleton Depot. Can anyone confirm this, just for my personal knoledge. Also, is this bus used a lot in films?
4999 is a Nova RTS, I didn't see it but I do know that there is a movie bus which has it's numbers changed a lot when it's used in movies. Its real number is 4199 I believe.
The bus is owned by 'Picture Cars' or some such. The bus is kept at the Stapleton Homeport.
-Hank
http://www.newsday.com/news/skybot/city/wednesday/nd2828.htm
Spoke with the driver of 7340 at Bus Fest.
Told me that they (union, drivers) have located 100+ Suburban buses hidden in the system, that can be used by MTA for the Academy problem. See my Edgewater residents post about the buses there - 32 Express coaches.
Said UP has hidden the NOVAs in the back of the depot.
UP only needs approx 85 buses for their EXPRESS runs - they have 100 (from the complete UP Pick list that was posted here earlier) - The NOVAs they do not need - maybe can keep like 5 as backup. Say another 20 from UP. to the total.
Add the 23 at JG that should have been replaced by storage transit buses, and the total is now 75. Flatbush has the 4800s and conversions, Manhattan has the few expresses, like 1826, and the 3800s, and the total is now up to around 95. Plus there are others in storage (3800s, 1700s, 1800s) And who knows what the total will be.
Also add the 356 more MCIs to come, as well as some of the excess at YUK in the morning.
These could Have COVERED the 7 Academy lines, considering from the papers that they had about 10 buses a piece per line.
And if anyone says anything about the engines, etc - repower them NOW and they will comply with the new regulations.
The engines can easily be swapped when they will be retired.
Can you spell CONSPIRACY - We should notify the press about the Excess buses.
The question is, has the TA been asked to take over these routes ?
The Mayor or nycDOT would have to make that phone call.
I see the current Republican Mayor being interested in the SI voters enough to find a way to replace the service with some other private company.
Disclaimer: I have no inside knowledge of this, just a personal opinion by someone who happens to work for a private bus company.
Mr t__:^)
Can you say 99% political bullshit? How many times has it been said here to NEVER believe something a random bus driver tells you? There still isn't a route between Brooklyn and the College of Staten Island, even though it's been 'coming' since 1994. At least now it's been publicly announced as 'planned'. Maybe in September...
-Hank
What's speculation??
I think someone from Transitalk confirmed the 356 MCIs to come.
Someone here posted the UP Pick list and had the total runs on it.
I walked by Edgewater and counted.
I haven't been to other storage facilities.
The rosters on "Well Informed" people's sites confirm the location of the Novas and TMCs.
NYC has the ability - that is what I'm getting at - to take over these routes, but nothing is being done - AE should stay a charter service.
With the X21/22, some will be needed, but still enough leftover to cover the routes.
For you repower gurus, 8562 is done.
Oh and 616 on Q46 today/ run 11.
Rode it today - see Bus Fest Post
There are a lot of 8500's from JG that are repowered.
8530,8538,8539, 8554 to name a few.
FLA have: 8156,8330,8401,8411,8418,8424,8422,8433(these I remember off the top of my head.)
8375 8402 8427 8479 8495 are a few I can remember.
Q46#8375Gary
Two things.
First, the driver of 7340 said that Orions 101-172 were originally hard seaters that were converted just prior to delivery.
Also, I can't figure this out.
Orion Suburbans 101-172, Locals 173-316, CNGs 317, 5XX-610 have the middle seat in the rear.
All the other ones have some crap metal thing that looks like a child's seat. Why do these have it and the others have the metal thing? -- Does it have to do with the engines?? The repowered ones have the middle seat, so why not the rest?
After the Bus Fest, decided to pass by Edgewater and see what was there.
Here is what I saw
Orions- 134,125,120 Repowered,158,171,164,136,130,166,135,133,129,132,167,2 others but couldn't see the numbers. (16)Some had a fresh coat of paint, but not repowered.
GMC RTSs 1745,3856,3884,3859,3844,3864,3857,3843,3853,3849,3872,3879,3868,3861,3883,3875 (16)
TMC RTSs 4898,4899 - One of them (I forget the #) has had a window removed, engine doors removed, and other, while the other is untouched. It's ashame that these 2 were scrapped for engine problems. They should have been repowered.
I saw this by walking around the back of the EZPASS building.
SEPTA is getting way out of control with the use of the ElDorado's on virtually any route. On Tuesday, around 430p I was passing 16th and Race when I noticed one on the Northbound Route 2, needless to say it was already packed. You could see the boarding riders laughing about how ridiculous it was for them to squeeze on this tight bus. This a shameful decision on SEPTA's part. Ironically, there was a nearly empty Route 27 ahead of that bus
The problem is that there is a shortage of 40 ft buses at Midvale, where the 2 is split with Southern. Unfortunately, for the riders, the people who put buses on the road at Midvale are not the brightest people on the face of the earth. I don't think it ever occured to SEPTA to shift some 40 ft buses from the suburbs (either Red Arrow or Frontier) to Midvale and send the surplus 40 ft buses into the suburbs. But, that would make sense, so it'll never happen at SEPTA.
i guess that they have to send everything they got on any
rt such as the c.
the suburbs probady have a bus shortage too.
did it ever occur to septa to restore the 84-8500 series buses just until they can resolve
Not really. The 84xx-85xx Neoplans are scrapped and not operable. In fact, quite a few of the 87xx-88xx Neos have been pulled from the road. I will be updating my roster today to reflect this.
on your roster you forgot to add 3 more 35 foot neoplan.
SEPTA just needs those 200 D40LF's ASAP. bottom line. they also need to work out their bunching problems that occur on many of their bus routes. they operate runs at a loss and expect us, the paying customers, to make up for it by paying that ridiculous $2 fare. someone needs to enlighten this transit agency.
no that just make the bus shortage bigger on the long run because septa don't how to take care of there buses.
they have more knowlege on the neoplans.
exp.look at the nabi they just been in septa for about fours years
and alreadly they need overhaul.
SEPTA has been doing overhauls at 4-5 year intervals since the RTS got theirs in 1984-85 so that's nothing new. The 4 year overhaul I'm pretty sure is a light overhaul.
I saw 3978 in afternon Q46 service yesterday and 4448 on the Q27 at Union Turnpike and Springfield blvd around the same time.
I have mentioned here before how drivers will put up route signs on the MCIs while deadheading.
This morning, saw one I haven't seen before or heard of. Is this new, or one hidden in the code.
"TO SUBWAY"
Does anybody out there know if they have the 2001 bus guide available yet? Always look forward to reading it.
And if so, can someone send a copy to me? E-mail me for the address
B61 Leonard
I haven't seen the latest issue at the depot, but we're usually the last to receive them. The Transit Museum, and Bus Customer Service departments receive them first. Try calling Steve Nacco and have him put you on the mailing list. Call 1-888-NYCTBUS or 718 243-3060 for the Museum Membership.
Thanks, I thought you had to work for MTA to call that number (888)
B61 Leonard
Anyone can call any NYCTA phone number. Some are set aside for employee use however, so calling them may prove useless, but the number I listed is a public number.
After being to the event yestrday, it was good to meet everyone from BusTalk. Everyone was polite and had a great time. However, i had one small problem.
I got on bus #699 and looked through the calander they had(from 1996,1997 and 1998). Supposedly, this calander showed pictures of every bus tested and used in New York City(i was surprised to see RTS #200 on the B41 route-i dont remember this).
I saw a picture of a AMGeneral bus and took a picture of the picture. All of a sudden, a driver on the bus yelled at me and said "the pictures are copyrighted and dont take any pictures". I recommended this calander, but the bus driver was upset.
Nice time up to this mark.
The driver was Joe Saitta who owns the bus and those pictures. Its his property and if he doesn't want to let you copy it, that is his privlege. After all, why should he give you something for free when he can get you to pay $7 or so.
Those calendars went for $24. For me, that was a bit steep. I would have gladly bought them if they were half that price. BTW, I was thinking of taking a photo of one of his pictures on display as well. Good thing I didn't.
To Caines 824: all my calendars are copyrighted; each page has this notice. If you are unaware of the meaning of copyright and or copyright infringement, I suggest you contact your lawyer. Copyright infringement is a violation of Federal law. It is not necessary to mince words: copying photos from this calendar is outright stealing. If someone stole or attempted to steal something you had created and copyrighted, would you not be upset? If this photo was so important to you, why not purchase the calendar?
To B53Rich: Yes, those calendars were $24.95 each. For that price, your would have received 55 sharp and clear color photos, one for each week of the year. That is about 45 cents per photo. A New York Subway Calendar, which I believe is priced at $9.95, has 14 photos - about 71 cents each. You can’t even get a good quality photo print in a store for that amount. Steep price? How can you say that? Do you know what it cost to produce the calendars? Before making that unreasonable and inane comment, have you taken the time and effort to investigate artwork and design costs, printing costs, shipping costs, advertising costs, etc., etc.? Have you invested the tens of thousands of dollars required to print this item? Have you taken the time to secure, from many sources, all of the photos necessary to produce a quality bus calendar? Did you spend countless weeks to write the captions and assemble the material necessary for the calendar? The calendars were produced for three years: 1996, 1997 and 1998. The 1999 calendar was readied but was not produced because of the steep increases in printing costs. The few remaining 1996, 1997 and 1998 calendars that I had were being offered for their original selling price of $24.95 each. The calendars are now considered collecitble items; recent sales of these calendars on eBay have commanded far higher prices. The same thing applies to the photos that were on display, which you openly admitted wanting to copy. Have you invested the time, effort and money to produce them? What or who gives you or anyone the right to make an unauthorized copy? My suggestion: before you act or speak, check all of your facts and statements.
Hey, Joe! CWalNYC here! I spoke to ya at the festival and saw your phot album. It is mavelous! Just wanted to say that.
CWalNYC
It was a pleasure meeting you also. Thank you for your kind comments; they are sincerely appreciated. Hope to see you again at the next Festival - or sooner, depending on where bus 699 is displayed.
Joe - 699 looks great - KUDOS to you for the marvelous restoration.
I think I read somewhere that insurance regulations prohibit passengers. I would have liked to ride on 699, if had the chance.
Any chance that you may restore any of the Fishbowls too? I know it's a long shot, and expensive, but just wondering.
my apoligies for taking the picture-i should have asked about how much the pictures were. In reference to the buse in the pcitures, 2 questions i need to ask:
1-when was the AM General in service in NY?
2-what happened to the RTS bus #200 that was shown in the pciture of the B41 line? I don't remember ever getting on this bus.
3-how do i buy the pcitures seperately without buying the calender?
The answer for the 1st question is easy.The AM Generals(aka the Flyer 801)ran in New York for Steinway Transit(later merged with Queens Transit to form Queens Surface)in the mid to late 70's.I managed to get one on the q101 in 1981/82.If I remember correctly it had the the orange and white seats like the hi 700(750-760) fishbowls that Queens transit use to use
When i pick up my work assignmment for next week & my assignmment to work at Queensvillage Depot ridecheck. I need to know where is Queens Village Depot & do they have parking there. This is my first time going to QV Depot.
Peace
David Justiniano
QV is located at 97 Avenue and 222 Street in Queens. The times I've been there, parking looks a bit tight, but I'm sure you could find something within a block or two.
to David Justiano.
Queens Village Depot is on 97-00 222nd street. If u travel down Jamaica Avenue, look for the Motorcycle dealer, and turn onto 22nd and u cannot miss it since so many Not In Service buses pull out all day. My Father is a Bus Operator. Anyways, it has a HUGE parking lot and ur bound to find a space. Have ur Employee pass ready because there is a Property protection agent. So just follow Jamaica Avenue. Its Very close to the Queens Village Railroad Station. The Trains going to bellmont RaceTrack turn in front of the Depot itself. So its VERY hard to miss. U can also take the Cross island parkway up to the Jamaica Avenue Exit. Then follow the directions above.
If U go to Queens Village depot, it houses
The Q1, Q2, Q30,Q31, Q36, Q43, Q46 Q75, Q79 Q83, Q88 and the X32 split route and X68. It has RTS old 3 and 4,000 series, 9300 series Novas, 4900 Series Novas, Coach Orion 600 series and several others. U made a Great choice! I go to Queens Village with my Dad every now and then and its great. I hope i have been a help.
By the Way QV is the only Queens Depot that can hold its entire Fleet indoors.....
Don't forget those relics 1751 1767 1773 1852 3807 3818 and 3824.
Q46#1773Gary
Q79#3818Gary
Thanks for posting the bus roster at QV. I lived on Hempstead Ave near 222 St up until 1996. Always passed by the depot on the way to C-Town. I wanted to know what they have there now. Before I left, they were running some reman RTS buses and some in the 8300 series. All the Blitz buses were gone. Some of them were running as the N6 with MSBA. They had one 9100 series Flxible parked out back, but it was gone when I came back to take a picture.
We used to be able to contain the entire fleet indoors, but that was before Metrocard. Today, buses are stored in the rear maintenance area, as well as along the guard railings.
http://www.qvdepot.com is a Queens Village Depot website, which has a link to other NYCTA bus sites.
By the way, the correct address is 97-11 222nd Street, and not 97-00 as was stated. POF FYI
By the way thats 222nd street
This morning while out for a walk I spotted Orion V #6200 out of service and sporting Castleton Depot logos traveling eastbound on the Pelham Parkway South service road between White Plains Road and Crueger Avenue. It was unusual seeing a Staten Island bus in the Bronx. Maybe it was heading for the Zerega CM.
a TRAINING BUS OR
A very lost castleton guy
When I lived near Belmont Raceway a few years ago, the Q2 bus going to the track was always crowded whenever the track was open, along with the JBL Q110. I was thinking about the express buses that sit around in QV all weekend. Why not use them as some sort of Belmont Racetrack Special from 165/Merrick? I'm sure the people going to the track would like a soft seat. I would. If NYCT charged a special rate, that would mean more revenue for them. Any interstate truck driver will tell you that if your equipment is standing still, you're not making money. And with NYCT, it's all about the Benjamins.
Years ago, Jamaica Bus Lines operated express bus service to Belmont during racing season from near Parsons and Hillside. I don't know if this service still exists, but if it does, it would seem to preclude any need for any MTA-NYC Bus service.
Q110 bus operates from Parsons and Hillside to Belmont Park. When I went to Belmont this past Sunday I saw a few RTS buses pulling in and out-mainly TMC's.
Q110#3850Gary
About over 15 Photos of SEPTA Roadeo is now Online. Come and see.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/derekinn1996?d&.flabel=fld13&.src=bc
Has anyone seen any Hampton Jitney articulateds lately? I saw one a few years ago during my travels in the city. They use the tandem steer, single rear concept. The therory behind it is that the front wheels would track better through a turn than a single wheel. I know that they operate in Canada mostly but they do come into NY on occasion.
[I know that they operate in Canada mostly but they do come into NY on occasion.]
Hampton Jitney operates scheduled service between Manhattan and the Hamptons on Long Island. The reference to Canada may relate to the fact that Hampton Jitney's artics were Prevost buses manufactured in Canada. I don't get to see Hampton Jitney buses very much, but those Prevosts were not too old and should still be in service.
I see HJ buses on a regular basis but none of the articulateds east of NYC. So they must operate in Canada mostly.
I think the HJ artic you're talking about was a demo bus from Prevost that has made it's way across the country over the past few years. ISTR seeing that bus about 2-3 years ago at the Krapf's garage in West Chester. Although, that kind of bus would be perfect for the HJ, I think there are a lot of road restrictions that make it a less than ideal bus in the NYC area.
That's very true. At the same time, I wondered why NYCT would buy NF artics. Probably for the extra room for those summer only routes.
I don't think the road restrictions would be in the city, but rather out on Long Island. But, then again, that was only a wild guess.
During training for my CDL with a slopeback RTS, I have made some really tight turns that I could not do with an artic. I would have failed my road test. The funny part is that the artic should be better in a turn because it can bend in the middle.
I remember seeing Hampton Jitney's artics once in a while on its NYC-Hamptons route, specifically along Lexington Avenue in Midtown Manhattan as well as at the Queens stops (westbound at Horace Harding & Main Street, eastbound at Horace Harding & 190th).
Really? That's interesting. I just see the usual non artic Prevosts on the LIE. It must be the only one they have.
I think HJ have about 5 of those articulateds running. I have saw them a few years ago. I saw about 5 of those one behind the other. I think they use it doing the Summer when more people use it. Or use it doing the busy times. BTW the Fresh Meadows stop on that route stops right at the Q30 Bus Stop and infront of the movie place. And at the bus stop for Q17,Q88,Q30 on the other side of the LIE have HJ stops there too. I have saw people getting off a HJ Bus infront of the Movie Place on the LIE comming from NYC.
Which means that they probably don't come into Suffolk. My only sighting of an HJ artic was on 5th Ave many moons ago. If I get hired at HJ (yeah right) I can find out where they have them assigned.
Does anyone have photos or know where I can find photos of the
paint scheme used on Public Service buses back in the 1950s ?
I have an HO scale model of a GMC TDH series bus that I would
like to paint as a PSNJ bus. If memory serves me correct, and
I am pushing 60, the color was a grayish bottom, cream window
band, and the gray top. The bottom of window was finished with
a ?? black stripe ??.
Any help would be appreciated.
Have a good day.
don aka daBear
You should try to photo gallery at Dave Mackey's Public Service site at this address:
http://www.davemackey.com/psct/gallery.html
I believe there is a link there to other Public Service photos, although that gallery should have plenty of pictures for your purpose.
During my travels around Suffolk County, I saw a ex PA Airport Shuttle wrapped with that advertising that you sometimes see on some of the privates like QS. It had the call letters of WLIR on it. It was sitting in a lot somewhere near Nassau County. If I get to go back there, I have more to report.
My guess is that it belongs to radio station WLIR for promotional purposes.
Never thought of that. I just thought it was kinda odd they would use a retired airport shuttle instead of a more conventional bus. But I do like them. The seating arrangement was odd, but they were fast.
Does anyone know where this bus is garaged. I missed Bus Fest. I know that the PP headquarters is in Springfield MA. My friend has a son on the Ithaca College Football Team and IIRC they are scheduled to have an "away" game against Springfield College this fall.
If the bus is garaged in Springfield, going up to a football game is a great excuse to visit the HQ and hopefully take some pics.
You may find the information you're looking for at the Futurliner (note spelling) web site. Or you may not. (I didn't see it, but I didn't look around much.)
The Peter Pan Futurliner page says that it was restored in Springfield but it doesn't seem to say where it's currently stored.
I don't know this for a fact but am merely speculating that it is quite likely that the buses restored by Peter Pan are kept in the company's Springfield garage, which is adjacent to the Springfield Bus Terminal. I suspect a telephone call to Peter Pan in Springfield would get you an answer.
For those of you not familiar with WMATA... All WMATA buses have a small bracket mounted on the front corner of the bus, just above the drivers' window. On Independence Day all WMATA buses carry small Ame rican flags in these brackets. I think it's really neat to see them rolling along at speed with the flag flying in the wind. I regret that I didn't carry a camera yesterday, but there's always next year. But then again - I may not have to wait to get this shot as today on my way home from work I saw a few buses that still had their flags. Some of them were 4078, 4350, 9743, 4041 and 2184. I'm sure I'll probably see more as I venture outdoors again. I'm guessing that even if WMATA at the depot don't remove the flags... their likely to be removed when the bus passes through the washers.
Wayne
Either the bus washers or the huge storm we had will take care of the flags.
I keep seeing buses from other areas creeping up in VA. For example, recently I saw 9276, which used to be a Western Division bus operating out of Arlington on one of the Centreville lines and I saw 9650, which also was out of Western at one time, on the 23A, which is a Four Mile Run route.
Hello to all you bus talkers out their. I had a great time at the bus festival.i love thoses fishbowls buses.i only wish that liberty line had one left. I had been driving for L/L for about 2 years now.A great company to work for!!!! i was at the bus fest. i had my L/L hat on. This site is the best for infor. i wish all you guys a great weekend.........john
That was you! I saw you! Saw a guy with an LL cap on. Looked sharp from afar. Didn't know who you were, so I didn't say anything. Well, that's about it.
CWalNYC
well maybe we can meet at the next one.
Well hello back to you colleague. I'm glad to have another non-TA employee of the system on this board with me.
BTW, do you have one of the bill "shoe boxes" attached to your farebox ? How does it work ? The old GFI ones would jam up if you broke a belt.
Mr t__:^)
What is the deal with the sign "Promotional Bus" on the LED sign of MTA buses and why aren't they found on other transit authorities' buses? Recently saw that sign on a northbound x5 bus headed for 57st/Lex Av to begin its southbound run. Why do they have that sign? What are they promoting?
CWalNYC
MCI_x5_2105
It's just one of the pre-programmed signs in the IFC. There are a few others, such as "Training Bus" "See Sign Below" etc. The sign was probably put-up in error. We usually see the Promotional sign when the TA takes photos of new buses or buses being tested.
I've seen that message on M23 when the farebox doesn't accept fares, i.e. the ride is free.
Arti
Probally just one of the codes that somebody discovered, e.g. "NYCT General Order", "See Sign Below", "The Big Apple", "Merry Christmas".
No I won't tell you these code numbers ....
Mr t__:^)
Hey, it's like the one I saw that said TO SUBWAY on a deadheading MCI.
I knew there was ones there, like I still remember seeing
HAPPY HOLIDAYS.
I remember when all the buses used to say "HAPPY HOLIDAYS" whenever it was a holiday! How come they don't do it anymore?
B61 Leonard
Probably because the intended function of the sign is to display the bus's route and destination. Why force the passengers to wait for the sign to scroll through meaningless messages when they just want to know if they should get on the bus?
Besides, it's not like setting a sign is a sincere display of the driver's emotions towards the passengers.
Incidentally, I find it rude and inconsiderate to wish people happy holidays on holidays that are not theirs. There's one holiday in particular, about a week from the end of December, where this comes up quite often.
At this depot a lot of effort is put into ensuring that the drivers like their job ... notice I didn't say enjoy, although some do enjoy it.
For the Subway Series last year they were permitted to ware a Yanks or Mets hat (only for the duration of the series). So, if one of them wishes you Happy Holidays, he/she probally means it.
Mr t__:^)
My remark about holidays was not directed at bus drivers specifically.
I realize that today's American society finds it perfectly appropriate, if not obligatory, to assume that everyone celebrates this one holiday in particular. I find the very idea offensive -- not the individuals who play along with it. I don't go around wishing random strangers a gut Shabbos unless I have reason to believe they're Jewish; I don't see why random strangers wish me a happy birthday of a god that isn't mine (and, ObBus, eliminate a bunch of bus stops because of it).
Are you referring to when a city bus flashes a message outside of its' destination message, etc? Here in New Britain/Hartford (CT), our CT Transit buses will flash "TRY TRANSIT" on occasion.
Here in DC, the WMATA buses have a ton of promotional signs as well. They are also programmed so that when one of them is on a charter, the part where the route number is can be programmed to the driver's name, as long as its 4 letters or less. For example, it could read something like "BOBS Charter".
Ehhh.... I don't think it's in the best interest of the NYCTA for drivers to have available to them the option of displaying ANY "4 letter words" on the destination sign...
F___ Limited Stops
D___ See Sign Below
;-)
LOL, yeah, that would probably open up a whole can of worms!! Although, that would be pretty funny to see. Too bad you can't program it to say something like, "What are you looking at?"
There are a slew of programming buttons on that sign, but I haven't found a way to get anything working! Good thing, I suppose LOL!!
The "Promotional Bus" reading is used for special events outside of Transit's normal route structure, such as shuttle service for last year's "Tall Ships" exhibit.
There are other interesting readings as well. This afternoon I saw a "COASTAL STORM" reading (for emergency evacuations?) on bus 4553, parked on West 32nd Street at the M4/Q32 terminal stand.
Saw a article in the NY Times of June 29th about Laidlaw, Inc.
They have been having a financial problems since the 90s, and have now asked the court for bankruptcy protection.
Did you know besides school buses & Greyhound they are: based in Burlington, Ontario, but do 90% of their business in the US; involved in hazardous waste management (a So. Carolina firm); ambulances (American Medical Responce) ?
Mr t__:^)
Wouldn't doubt that Laidlaw's in trouble. I had a billing problem with their American Medical Response Ambulance service. They had bought out several ambulance companies and tried merging the billing systems. I had to call (on 800 #'s) Connecticut (for a LI run), the midwest, and Ct again to get it corrected. Wonder how much revenue "fell through the cracks".
Laidlaw has a yard on the North Shore and my friend was telling me that they need drivers badly. I wonder why.
Well, I hate defending Laidlaw, but in this case, school bus driver shortages are not limited to Laidlaw. With the relatively strong economy, school bus companies arcross the US are having problems hiring drivers.
You're right. Some of these companies have huge sign on bonuses if you have your CDL. Another one offers a much smaller bonus if you don't and agree to be trained for the CDL.
while we are on the subject of companies in financial trouble, does anyone know how Coach USA is doing now? not too long ago, it was posted here that the company was in serious trouble.
Last time I heard from the Union, CUSA is still in big financial difficulties but IS trying to dig out the hole! How long will it take to dig out is clearly unknown.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Hi,
If you click the "Simple Search" link at the top of the index you can limit your index view by author or subject (partial matches, case insensitive searches). It works well if you use chronological, all bets are off if you use threaded view -- it should work but it might look strange.
-Dave
This one should be filed under the who cares category, but I got a flyer saying that ST is hiring school bus drivers for 15.25/hr. But, if ya read the fine print, the new pay scale will not take effect until this Jaunary. So technically, the starting pay is 14.54/hr. The benefits are great but I could do better elsewhere.
Interesting. Is the flyer for all the contractors or just one company? Wasn't sure if the county or the contractors set the pay-scale. Also S-T operates various sized buses and a few mini-vans. Just as there is a pay differential between drivers of school bus mini-vans and full sized buses, is there a differential with S-T ?
The flyer doesn't say as to who gets the higher pay. Usually, the full size bus drivers get the most money at other companies. I would find it hard to believe that everyone would get the higher pay. But maybe they are that desperate for drivers, just like everyone else.
Back in the early 90s, NYCT was testing two demo high floor buses. One was an MCI, the other was a Euro looking bus, probably a Neoplan. NYCT must have kept the MCI because I saw it in revenue service. Anyone know if the Neoplan was returned?
For the MCI, are you referring to the D4000 Express Cruiser #81994? This was tested on SI Express routes, as I remember seeing this once on the X15 down the block from me.
That's the one! I couldn't remember the number, but I knew it was a five digit instead of four. I used to see it at 57/3rd during the day. Thanx.
Hello:
I stumbled onto this webpage and am grateful for it. I was born in Brooklyn but went to the Levittown schools and moved to Washington, DC after graduating from college.
Anyway, where are the Brooklyn bus garages? The only one I remember is at Flatbush and Utica Avenues? And which one was named for Jackie Gleason.
Separate note: As I looked over the photo section, I noticed that some of the routes haven't changed in 40 years. B41 still runs on Flatbush Avenue, B44 still runs on Nostrand Avenue. When I retire, I'm going to return to New York. Not only does it have a great transit system, it's a great town to dance Argentine tango.
Michael
There are five TA garages in Brooklyn: East New York, Flatbush, Jackie Gleason, Fresh Pond, and Ulmer Park. I don't have the addresses off the top of my head, but I (or someone else) can check on the actual locations.
Jackie Gleason garage is the former 5 Avenue garage in Brooklyn.
The B12 stops across the street from ENY going east and the J train stops near the depot at Alabama Avenue. The B46 passes the Flatbush depot on the way to Kings Plaza, if the route is the same as I remember it. If you go to ENY after 11pm, there is a long fuel line.
Flatbush Depot: Fillmore and Utica Aves. Routes: B2,31,41,44,46,49,78, and rush hour B6.
How to get there? B2,B9,B41,B46,B100, and Q35 stop within a block of the depot.
ENY depot: 1 Jamaica Ave.(Bway Jct) Routes: B7,8,12,14,15,17,20,25,40,42,45,60,82,83, Q24, and Q56.
How to get there? B12,20,25,40,83,Q24, and Q56 stop within a block of the depot. Subway: A,C,J,L,Z to Bway Jct. J to Alabama Ave.
Jackie Gleason Depot: 36St and 5Av. Routes: B9,B11,B16,B23,B35,B37,B43,B51,B61,B63,B65,B67,B68,B69,B71,B75,and B77
How to get there? B35,B37,B63,B70 stop within two blocks of the depot. Subway: B,M,N,R to 36St.
Ulmer Park Depot: Harway Ave. Routes: B1,3,4,6,36,64,74, x27,28,29 How to get there? B3,6, and B82 stop within a few blocks of the depot.
Fresh Pond Depot: (Queens). Routes: B13,18,20,26,38,39,48,52,54,57, Q54,55,58,59. How to get there?
to get to Fresh Pond Depot, take "M" train to Fresh Pond Road. Depot is there or take Q58 to depot.
Thank you. Ive never been to that or UP depot.
The B6 is split during rush hour from Ulmer Park?
Does the B39 still come out of Flatbush Nights?
B6 is operated primarily out of Ulmer Park Depot on weekdays (and entirely on weekends), with some rush hour help from Flatbush. When school's open, Flatbush has two B6 runs (101 and 102), and some B44 runs do B6 work in the morning. When school's closed and in the summer, some B44 runs do B6 work in the morning.
Route B39 is operated by Fresh Pond Depot, with some "hawk" (overnight) trips provided through interlining with Flatbush's route B46.
David
1) The one that is called Jackie Gleason was called 5th Ave. It is on 5ave and 36st in brooklyn.
2) Ulmer Park is and 25ave and Harway ave.
3) Fresh Pond. I don't know the cross street but it's on Frest Pond Raod in Queens. The is still a Brooklyn Depot.
4) East New York is on Penn. Ave
Robert
Fresh Pond Depot is at Fresh Pond Rd and Putman Av. I've been over there once. It's right under the M train El. You can't miss it, unless you go down the wrong stairwell...
CWalNYC
Hello everyone; just wanted to let you know that my initial Thomas SLF 200 low floor model is now on eBay. Should you have questions, feel free to ask; happy bidding!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
I heard something about a Bus thing in New Jersey on Saturday 9/8/2001. Do anybody know where it's going to be held?
Yeah I know all about it! !LLET ANNOG MA I FI DENMAD EB.......
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
!EKAS S'DOG ROF SU LLET.....ROVERT TIMMAD
-F.
TIMMAY RLKDJSADKLFJSDA ok that was completely random, Q46, if you get some type of brain implant, let me know, maybe I just MIGHT let you in on the secret...
Until then, duhhhh...lemme think....!lleh ot uoy nmad
Clayton
TIMMAY!
!!!PARC TUO EDISNI DRAWKCAB EHT HTIW TI TIUQ OY
It's getting mad annoying-get your messages straight!!!
What's the big secret? What's on Septembr 8th NJT Bus Roadeo?
And why don't you want to tell anybody?
Geesh-grow up!
B61#823Gary
Oh Lighten up and have a little fun! That's all we are doing, CHILL MAN!
!8V A EVAH DNA
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Maybe I shoud contiue talk about this Airbus thing At Airliners.net
!TCEJBUS FFO
NEXT
!SUBRIA=SUB+RIA ?TI TEG
!!!LOL NUF ELTTIL A EVAH LLI THGIRLA
!!!EGASSEM TSAL EHT HTIW DEDNENTI MRAH ON
yraG328#16B
.romoh fo esnes a htiw reklaTsuB wollef a ees ot doog s'tI...LOL
.F-
.nuf gnivah tsuj er'ew....edud llihC
-F.
!ELUR SELBIXLF
-F.
!!!!!!!LOORD S'AVON DNA
Okay, let's not go there. I'll write a whole essay backwards if I have to.
Just having a little fun that's all ! LOL!
!YAD ELBIXLF A EVAH
,SDRAGER
oL.T
moc.klatisnart.www
?SOTOHP TSEF SUB EVAH YDOBYNA SEOD WTB<
I have plenty! Why?
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
I wanna see them! I didn't get to go. :(
-F.
!ooT eM
Well id like to see the photos from bus fest 2001.
Same here.
B61#823Gary
?SOTOHP TSEFSUB OT KNIL A EREHT SI
I wanna see this years bus fest photos!
That's amazing! How did you do that?
-F.
HTML Did that!
There ya go. And a Flxible day to you! Boy that backwards writing sure makes me dizzy.
-F.
!niaga revo lla raw xlF .sv STR sdrawkcab a eb dluow ti ekil sdnuos....yob hO
-F.
?he, ynnuf ytterp er'uoy kniht syug uoY
!!!!AH AH AH AH AH
!!!!!secaf selpoep no elims a speek
I'm having fun with this!!!! :o)
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
(: !!!OD EW HAEY LLEH
-F.
KLAATU, BARATA, NIKTO!
-knaH
And OOBU JOOBU, GOO GOO GOO JOOB and ABRACADABRA to you!!!
-F.
LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
OPEN SEASAME AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
LOL...yeah, now go up to Jennifer Lopez and say EEP OPP ORK AH AH!
-F.
I can't believe none of ever saw either of those movies...
-Hank
Huh?
WHAT IS THAT JIBBERISH YOUR SPEAKING????
Read it backwards..it was Trevor's idea. :)
-F.
READ IT BACKWARDS! ....
!!!LLA SU ERAPS...NIARB A TEG
T.Lo
English.
-Hank
OK. Tell me.
I knew that my dyslexia would pay off some day. That was good.
Murf......
So you'll be in Groton for the Sub Fest?
-Hank :)
There Is a Sub fest?
That's the date of NJT's "Try Transit Festival" formerly known as "Hoboken Festival" at Hoboken Terminal.
-Dave
Is it like bus fest that nycta had?????
Thanks. Now as I woundering. I know that the Volvo Articulateds are use on somewhat of a SHUTTLE with Headsign "Try Transit". Can someone give me the SHUTTLE Routeing?
Thank you Dave at least you don't have nothing to hide about September 8 (Unlike others here).
B37#879Gary
Sounds to me like it's the Try Transit Festival (nee Hoboken Festival). It's not as much a "bus" fest as it is a bus and rail event. While a lot of the NJT buses will be at Hoboken that day, it's mainly geared towards rail fans.
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?lanimreT nekoboH eht reaN
!!!OS EPOH I
!!!lavitseF on ot teg to tsuj selim net on gniklaw t'nia I esuaC'
!!won rof eyb-eyb ,oS
CYNlaWC
CWalNYC lol
!OY
!TI NAC
!GNIEKOJ STUJ
8829#STR avoN 64Q.
LOL!!!!!!!
No im not
does anyone know or have the complete or even a partial listing of the ride-on and/or fairfax connector bus rosters?
Great news folks; I now have a Road Champs NJT Flx Metro for sale on eBay; it is still mint in its box. It is one of only two I have left; happy Bidding!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Great news folks; I now have a 1:64 scale NYC GM Fishbowl for sale on eBay. It is one of only a few I have left; Happy Bidding!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Saw one just like it at Willis Hobbies on Saturday, also know of a SubTalker who bought one ... it does look nice, but then I only work for a bus company ;-)
Mr t
I also have other versions I do of these, including WMATA and SF Muni...I've also thought about doing one of these in 1960s NYCTA green and silver colors. If anyone is interested, pull the cord above the window!
-F.
I bump into this. And this is a GM New Look on sale on Ebay. NOT A Diecast model. It's a Real one. It's a 35 Foot Model 4523N GM New look model from 1981. And the bid starts at a crazy price for a used bus. $700.00!! Man that's nearly the cost of my Money I have at my Bank. Here's the link. And it ends at 1:07 AM Saturday.
http://www.cgi.ebay.aol.com/aol/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1612702098
And here's the link to the photos.
http://www.geocities.com/charterbus/picsnew.html
I haven't checked that particular auction....but though $700.00 may be a cheap price for the bus itself, there are a hell of a lot more things to consider when buying a used bus. They are NOT the easy things to own as you might think.
Did that bus even RUN?? At that price, I'd suspect it either has major engine or transmission problems. If it runs, does it have good tires (there's a couple thousand clams if it needs them...) Then there's insurance, etc. And what if the thing breaks down somewhere when you pick it up and try to get it across the country if you need to? Try and find someone who can work on buses out in the middle of nowhere.
There was an auction recently for an ex-Seattle MAN Americana.....the auction seller was in the middle of Montana. Turns out the bus developed a tranmission leak there, quit running, so the original owner had it fixed by the seller and then decided not to bother with it any more once he saw what he really bought. The seller said it was a German engine, German tranmission, and couldn't locate any parts. In other words, lotsa luck if you bid on it and won.....
Okay, now I'm confused.
I posted a couple weeks ago that I saw a couple of Orange Garage buses on the #709 (a Market Street route).
But since then, EVERY bus I've seen on the #709 has been an Orange bus, while at the same time, the other MS routes in the area (namely #72 and 74) are running "normal", with MS buses.
Que Pasa?
Efkharisto for any information . . .
There is a major fleet swap going on, there is some Market Street Novas down running at Meadowlands, I Think that they are just rotating the buses because the 709 is still a full Market Street Run!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Hey folks; just found some more buses on TV....
- On "Spin City", a Flxible Metro D is shown in the middle of a blizzard, LEDs blinkig into the night. (The show takes place in NYC though...anyone got an explanation for that one?)
-On a movie preview, a Grumman 870 comes speeding towards the camera. I forget which movie it is; it's something on Showtime or HBO.
-In the beginning theme sequence of "WKRP in Cincinnati" (first season episodes), an AM General is heading down the expressway (Queen City Metro).
Let me know what you have all seen on the tube and the big screen; hope to see a bunch of buses!
-F.
Can't offer anything regarding the above, however while watching public television early this morning (Topic: Homeless NYC residents), there were many brief sections which included the RTS in actual service. They appeared to be upper-manhattan areas, which featured RTS buses, but you never had a close-up of the bus, so it's hard to judge. The blackened rear angel window was the only clue.
Blackened rear angel window? What's that?
-F.
The porkchop panel. It's actually a window but has been painted black. It's white, fiberglass, and part of the body on 1993 and later model RTS buses. So judging by that, one could assume the RTS was 1990 or earlier.
Oh, OK; gotcha.
-F.
[On "Spin City", a Flxible Metro D is shown in the middle of a blizzard, LEDs blinkig into the night. (The show takes place in NYC though...anyone got an explanation for that one?)]
Simple explanation: It's set in NYC but filmed in Los Angeles.
-----
[Let me know what you have all seen on the tube and the big screen; hope to see a bunch of buses!]
My favorites:
1. Movie - "Moscow on the Hudson": Robin Williams' character riding an M15 and giving directions to a fellow rider.
2. Movie - "Tootsie": Tootsie and her agent are walking east on 57th Street when an M30 passes them.
3. Movie - "Superman" (the first movie): establishing shot on 42nd Street, showing Grand Central Terminal and an M104.
4. Movie - "Ghostbusters 2": Slimer driving an RTS (with a roll sign) on the M15.
5. TV - Commercial for AAMCO (I think), in which a guy carries his car's muffler ON THE BUS to and from the service center.
6. TV - Commercial for Dunkin Donuts Coolatta: a guy gets on a bus with his Coolatta; the driver stares at it longingly; and all five of the other passengers huddle around him, leaving 39 empty seats.
7. TV - "America's Most Wanted": re-enactment showing a wanted killer riding a LACMTA bus, only to be scared off when fellow riders recognize his face from their newspapers.
8. TV - "The Drew Carey Show": Drew is killed while running for an RTA bus.
-----
Now for two honorable mentions:
9. TV - "Martin": bus not shown, but mentioned in discussion of wedding plans ("We don't need a limo. The bus runs every hour; with one transfer, you're there.")
10. Song - Weird Al Yankovic, "Another One Rides the Bus": entire song. (Is there a video?)
I'd LOVE to find out if there's a video for the Weird Al song. I need to take a look at Ghostbusters again' I don't remember that part! And I would LOVE to see the Drew Carey episode...that should really be something!
-F.
[On "Spin City", a Flxible Metro D is shown in the middle of a blizzard, LEDs blinkig into the night. (The show takes place in NYC though...anyone got an explanation for that one?)]
Probably stock footage from another city. It sounds like you're describing either Baltimore or Washington, since those are the only two cities where both (1) a blizzard is likely to occur - hence the stock footage - and (2) they have Flxibles with the LED tail lights. (Note that I haven't seen the Chicago Flxibles, so I could be wrong.)
Simple explanation: It's set in NYC but filmed in Los Angeles.
Actually, up until Michael J Fox's last season, "Spin City" was filmed in NYC. It wasn't until this past season when Charlie Sheen took over (personally, I stopped watching the show because I can't stand him) when production moved to LA.
I agree; I liked the show better with Michael J. Fox. As far as the Flx in NYC, I can only suspect that it may have been a NJT unit as it was straight white under the black rear A/C panel...then again, if it was, it should have had the tri-stripe on the back as well? Stock footage, perhaps.
Another pair of pop culture bus sightings: on VH1's Notorious B.I.G.: Behind The Music, a NYCTA RTS is shown passing through a film clip.
On The X-Files, FBI Headquarters is shown, and a Flx Metro B comes whirring by.
Let's see some more, folks. They're out there.
-F.
Folks, here's an obscure bus sighting; on an episode of "Mayberry RFD", Sam is seeing his girlfriend off as she boards a Flxible Clipper en route to Atlanta. The bus was blue with orange wheels. Very cool!
Another couple notes (off-topic):
-Sam's cousin is named Alice Cooper; what a coincedence. I wonder if that's where he got his name?
-I didn't realize the show was heavily funded by the Chrysler Corporation. Every other car on there is a Plymouth Valiant; TOO COOL! I also saw a slick '71 Challenger R/T convertible on there. Blue on blue with white stripes....very nice!
-Fred Donaher
"Your Roving Bus Reporter"
The same Flx Clipper in that episode of RFD is seen throughout the episode. Wonder where that great old bus is now? Blue with orange wheels and silver sides....any ideas, everyone? Do tell if so!
-F.
Of course, I neglected the all-time classic bus scene...
Star Trek IV: Kirk and Spock riding a SF Muni fishbowl ("What does he mean by 'exact change'?")!! They and other passengers are bothered by a punk with a boombox, so Spock gives the punk a Vulcan nerve pinch.
Aside #1: They were headed to Sausalito, so they should have taken Golden Gate Transit #10 or #50 instead of a SF Muni route.
Aside #2: The song blaring on the boombox is "I Hate You" by Kirk Thatcher - who plays the punk.
NO WAY!!! An SF MUNI Fishbowl was in STAR TREK IV?!? WOW...if anyone wants a model of the Star Trek bus, let me know; I've got one for sale!
-F.
More bus sightings on the boob tube: on CHiPs this morning, I saw a MASSIVE amount of LA Metro vehicles during the "War Games" episode. This is the one where a group of people splatter each other's cars with paint balloons for sport and it gets on the highway and out of hand, causing traffic to filp over, crash, etc.
The LA vehicles I saw included a GM Fishbowl, a Flx New Look, a pair of RTSes at the curb, and a newer bus that looked like either an Orion V or a Flyer D900 series.
Quite a bus-filled episode; more transit than Ponch could shake a stick at!
-F.
In the movie "15 Minutes", they used a 35' NYC RTS. Not very good research done there. I can't remember exactly, but I know the striping of the placing of the "MTA" symbol wasn't right either. You only see it for a couple of seconds, but it was enough time to see these deficiencies.
I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I like the "Friends" episode where Joey and Chandler take Ross's son on the bus and when they realize they've left him on the bus, they run around the corner to see a few of them all next to each other.
The movie "Swordfish" has an older New Flyer bus being picked up by a helicopter.
LOL...that's too funny! Gotta see "Swordfish" now. I found another new sighting; in the latest Subway commercial, someone misses the bus as a Fishbowl whizzes by. The bus is white with a blue stripe and silver sides; could this have been a NYCTA "Blitz" rebuild? Has anyone seen the commercial?
-F.
Yeah, you'll like that scene in "Swordfish" as its a pivotal role in the movie. Plus, Halle Barry is in the movie, too!
Ooh...Halle Berry! AND a bus....TOO COOL!!! Must....see.....Sword....fish!
-F.
I just saw another bus on CHiPs today; this time it was a Fishbowl in white with orage stripe and black around the windows, a la the ADBs. Was this an LA Metro unit? There are LOTS of buses on CHiPs!!!
-F.
I found more buses on Comedy Central tonight; on South Park, an OTR bus is shown. While it is a fictional animated creation, it is neat in the fact that it has a Flxible New Look-style six-piece windshield, and an MCI 96A3-style body with slanted side windows.
Also, Comedy Central will be featuring the movie "Pecker"; a scene was briefly show where some people were riding either an RTS or Flx Metro. All I remember was that it was an ADB with a blue American Seating interior. Does anyonne know what kind of bus this was?
Oh yes, and in "Beavis and Butthead Do America", an RTS is shown. :)
-F.
When I was a senior in High School back in the late 80's, we had to read the "New Yorker" magazine in my English class and there was one cartoon that made it in there that showed a woman who was on a bus and she rang the bell and the "Stop Request" sign came on. The next fram showed the sign go blank and the final frame shows the sign light up "Request Denied". I'm sure many operators on here would love to program their buses to do that as a joke. : )
That's too funny! I'll bet they'd LOVE to have those signs at Blacksburg. The New Flyer LFs there are equipped with a talking "STOP REQUESTED" signal; being a college town, many a drunken frat boy likes to hear the bus talk over and over and...well, you get the picture.
I wasn't there for this, but I heard that one particular evening, a driver got so pissed about the repetition that he switched off the system and annnounced on the PA that he would make absolutely NO stops until the end of the line. That'll teach 'em!
-F.
For all those who are annoyed by people who pull the cord just to hear the bus talk and not actually make it stop to let them off, here's a great idea. Get a sound bite from "2001" and program it into the box; when the bus says "I'M SORRY, DAVE...I'M AFRAID I CAN'T DO THAT", watch your bewildered passengers bolt for the door.
Now THAT's a solution!
-F.
I can't remember right now since it was a long time since I saw Ghostbusters 2, but I think it was a regular MTA NYC Bus, in the 2300s.
Hey folks...just saw more on the tube.
-In the new Craig David video for "Fill Me In", an LA Flx Metro is fully shown at the beginning of the video.
-Another bus sighting on "WKRP In Cincinnati" this morning; in the "GOTTA DANCE" two-part episode where Dr. Johnny Fever almost sells his soul to disco (a sign apparently listed in Revelations), a pair of AM Generals are seen cruising by the Flim building, home of WKRP.
One neat aside of this episode: Mary Frann (Joanna of "Newhart" fame) plays the evil, sexy producer that attempts to seduce Johnny Fever into sellout status via his own TV show. Eventually, she fails.
-F.
I don't know about a video, but here are the lyrics to Weird Al Yankovic's "Another One Rides The Bus" (which, of course, is a parody of "Another One Bites The Dust" by Queen). The question is, what route was he riding?!
- - - - -
Ridin' in a bus down the boulevard,
And the place was pretty packed.
Couldn't find a seat, so I had to stand,
With the perverts in the back.
It was smellin' like a locker room.
There was junk all over the floor.
We're already packed in like sardines,
But we're stoppin' to pick up more.
Look out!
Another one rides the bus-ah.
Another one rides the bus-ah.
And another comes on,
And another comes on.
Another one rides the bus-ah.
Hey!
He's gonna sit by you.
Another one rides the bus.
There's a suitcase pokin' me in the ribs.
There's an elbow in my ear.
There's a smelly old bum standin' next to me.
Hasn't showered in a year.
Well, I think I'm missin' a contact lens.
I think my wallet's gone.
And I think this bus is stoppin' again,
To let a couple more freaks get on.
Look out!
Another one rides the bus-ah.
Another one rides the bus-ah.
And another comes on,
And another comes on.
Another one rides the bus-ah.
Hey!
He's gonna sit by you.
Another one rides the bus.
Another one rides the bus.
Another one rides the bus--ow!
Another one rides the bus--hey, hey!
Another one rides the bus--hey-y-y-y!
The window doesn't open, and the fan is broke,
And my face is turnin' blue.
I haven't been in a crowd like this
Since I went to see The Who.
Well, I should'a got off a couple miles ago,
But I couldn't get to the door.
There isn't any room for me to breathe.
Now we're gonna pick up more, yeah!
Another one rides the bus-ah.
Another one rides the bus-ah.
And another comes on,
And another comes on.
Another one rides the bus-ah.
Hey!
He's gonna sit by you.
Another one rides the bus.
S78/79 during peak hours???
More likely the S79.
That's a CLASSIC! I used to have the 45 back in the 80s...and I played it REPEATEDLY!!! There's a TON of bus songs out there, including:
-"Double Dutch Bus" (a campy, funky cult classic fave of mine)
-"Magic Bus" (The Who)
-"Bus Stop" (The Hollies)
-"Ramblin' Man" (The Allman Brothers)
"I was born in the back seat of a Greyhound Bus.....rollin' down Highway 41"
-"50 Ways To Leave Your Lover" (Paul Simon)
"Get on the bus, Gus"
More to come....if anyone knows of any more, bring 'em up!
-F.
"Horace, the Swingin' School Bus Driver," Jan & Dean
"On Broadway," The Drifters ("I'll catch a Greyhound bus for home, they all say")
A couple really obscure songs:
"Welcome to the Dance," Sons of Champlin ("If you're riding on the back seat of the bus, you're not alone, you're not the first")
"Everybody on the Bus," Francis Rocco Prestia
And I mentioned this one when the thread came up a long time ago... It's not about a bus, but honorary mention to "Fish Bowl Man" by King's X :).
Cool! Some of those didn't even occur to me. I have more here from The Beatles:
-"A Day In The Life" (The Beatles):
"Made the bus in seconds flat....found my way upstairs and had a smoke.." (obviously a double-decker)
-"Mrs. Vanderbilt" (Paul McCartney and Wings):
"When the bus has left the stop...you better drop your hurrying. What's the use of worrying?"
-"Magical Mystery Tour" (The Beatles)
Features bus sounds in the song itself...and the movie features the
Magical Mystery Tour bus itself...that cool three-axle Bedford Val!
More bustunes on the way...keep 'em coming, folks!
-F.
Here are more bus songs:
-"Thank You" (Dido):
She mentions that she "missed the bus" and is "late for work again".
-"Opposites Attract" (Paula Abdul):
In the rap part, the singers describe themselves as being like two buses; one goes up, the other goes down.
More on the way...
-F.
"Busload of Faith" (Lou Reed).
"Wish You Were Here" (Pink Floyd): "We're just two lost souls living in a Fishbowl, year after year..."
And for the Gillig fans, a musical metal movie: "KISS Meets The PHANTOM Of The Dark!"
More mass transit musical madness on the way....
-F.
And there's also ZZ Top's "Waiting On The Bus/Jesus Just Left Chicago":
"HAVE MERCY...BEEN WAITING ON THE BUS ALL DAY!!!"
Rock on, everyone!
-F.
Here's a complete list:
"Busman's Holiday" (Ray Anthony)
"Bus never Comes" (Shirley Bassey)
"The Bus Stop E.P." (Paragraph 8)
"Bus" (Monday Morning)
"Bus Stop (Electric Slide" (Project 122)
"Bus Stops 6" (The Nonce)
"Bus" (Billy Preston)
"Bus Ride Home" (Selzers)
"Bus 22" (Carl Belew)
"Bus Route To Your Heart" (Milky Whimpshake)
"Bus Boys" (Major MCCA)
"Bus Off" (Mr. Live w/Tony Bones)
"Bus Trip" (Men In Progress)
"Bus For Us" (Suzannne Bloom)
"Bus To Vegas" (Casino Ashtrays)
More on the way...
-F.
More for your listening pleasure.....
A bus song with an engine:
"Bus 6" (the band is called CATERPILLAR!)
For the Flx fans:
"The METRO" (Berlin)
"Gettin' Jiggy Wit' It" (Will Smith):
"You? Try to FLX on me? Don't be silly!"
Old school:
"Return of the MACK" (Marc Morisson)
And don't forget MACK-10!
-F.
More bus tunes:
"BUS OF MY OWN" (Jim Lehrer)
"BUSY BUS" (Joan of Arc)
"BUS 22 TO BETHLEHEM" (Bobby Cole)
"BUSINESS OF LOVE" (Wall of Voodoo)
"On a midtown bus at 5PM, he and she begin to fight again..."
"BUS STOP '94" (DJ)
"BUS DRIVER'S PRAYER" (Ian Dury and The Blockheads)
"BUS RIDER" (The Guess Who)
A bus name AND a mention here:
"MAN We Was Lonely" (Paul McCartney):
"I used to ride on my fast city line, singing songs that I thought were mine alone...."
-F.
First, here's one for the MCI Fans:
"CLASSICal Gas" (Mason Williams)
And some more:
"SUPERSTITION/YOU HAVEN'T DONE NOTHIN'" (Stevie Wonder):
At the end of the song, the driver announces a stop in NYC, and the bus roars away)
"BUS SONG" (T-Boys)
"THE ROAD" (The Kinks; mentions buses)
And some bus-related albums:
Short Bus (Filter)
Minimum Wage Rock and Roll (The Bus Boys)
Bus (Fuzz)
Bus 152 (F.F.)
Bus Stop Song (Four Lads)
Bus Stomp (Flabbergast)
Bus (Executive Slacks)
Bus Never Stops (Alkoskalics)
A Bus Named Desire (Ashley Clevatis)
Bus 141 (Arkatek)
Buses And Trains (Bachelor Girl)
Bus Ratch (Bus Ratch)
I think I've covered them all but if I'm missing any, let me know!
-F.
Wasn't that LIVING FOR THE CITY by Stevie Wonder? As he gets off the bus, you can here a fishbowl drive off.
That's right; it WAS Living In The City....my bad. I didn't realize that was a Fishbowl; man, Stevie Wonder really has an ear for buses!
-F.
Oh yeah, and one more:
"Tie The Yellow Ribbon 'Round The Ole Oak Tree" (Tony Orlando and Dawn): "I'll stay on the bus, forget about us...put the blame on me".
"Orion" (Metallica); A cool instumental with a great bass line. The title says it all.
More to come....
-F.
And for those of you who ride old school: "MACK The Knife!"
-F.
And for all the NYCTA Fishbowl fans:
"Ballroom BLITZ" by Sweet!
-F.
Here's an obscure cut for us Flx fans:
"The METRO" (Berlin)
The name says it all.
-F.
Here are a few:
Billy Joel's "New York State of Mind":
"I'm catchin' a Greyhound, on the Hudson River line
I'm in a New York state of mind..."
(I don't know the exact words verbatim, but it's pretty damn close)
Here's a really obscure line for ya!
The B-52s song "Is that you Mo Dean?" starts off with the following line:
"Waiting for bus number 99..."
Which of course could either mean that he's waiting for a particular bus number (highly doubtful), or he's waiting for SEPTA's 99 bus between Norristown, King of Prussia, Phoenixville, Royersford, and Pottstown, or NJT's 99 Clifton Av Crosstown (between Newark or Hillside).
Or maybe not...
Wow...gotta sit down and listen to those. Thanks for the note!
-F.
B-52's; now there's another bus reference right there.
Oh? How so? Must be a route number I assume?
-F.
Yes. The B52 Gates Av between Downtown Brooklyn (Cadman Plaza W) and Ridgewood, Queens (Palmetto/St Nicholas).
Yeah! Also, Virginia has its share of musical numbers too. In Colonial Williamsburg, there was a Flx Metro numbered B-17....as in "Don't Play B-17". Even better, here in Roanoke, the bus line in my neighborhood is Route 66. So every time you go downtown, you "Get Your Kicks"!
-F.
Hey everyone...just wanted to let you know that MTV has a special called "20 Years of Pop Music"; it highlights all music from the past two decades and as the VJ talks between video clips, a NYC RTS may be seen passing down the streets of New York through the outside window. Also, one of the featured videos shows a front shot of a NYC Orion.
Look out for it, and keep looking for buses on TV and in the movies!
-F.
No, scratch that. In the MTV special, a whole BEVY of NYC RTSes are shown cruising down the street (during a short segment about TRL). Note to fellow "coach potatoes": TRL is a GREAT place to catch NYC buses on TV.
Also, an ironic note: The above special marks 20 years of MTV. Throughout the special, RTSes are featured. MTV first signed on in 1981, which is also the same year that NYC received its first RTS order.
Happy 20th birthday to music television and the NYC RTS, the rolling ambassador of the Big Apple!
-Fred Donaher
BusTalk's Official Coach Potato
Another sighting from the "Coach Potato": I just saw a New Flyer LF whizzing down the road during the "stakeout" on Wayne's World 2. The bus had black around the windows with a WMATA-style red and blue stripe down the sides; any idea what TA this was? (The movie takes place in Aurora, IL.) Another note is that Christopher Walken stars in the movie as well.
Also, many CTA buses are shown in "Ferris Bueller's Day Off"; a TON of Fishbowls are seen between the point where they drive the Ferrari through downtown and when Cameron loses it when he sees the odometer.
Also, a newer bus is shown in the old green CTA colors; possibly a MAN? I remember it was an early 80s bus.
-F.
Another bus sighting; in Wayne's World 2, when Wayne stops Cassadra's wedding, he carries her from the church onto an Old Look, which is yellow with an orange stripe.
-F.
Yet another bus sighting...
In "Moscow on the Hudson" (about a Russian defector, starring Robin Williams): The Moscow Circus is visiting NYC and travels around on a chartered deck-and-a-half from - of course - LIBERTY LINES!!
Earlier in the film, Robin's character is remembering his arrival in the US while riding an M15 and giving directions to fellow passengers.
If I remember it was a MaBSTOA 4800 series(aka NYCTA 6000's series)TDH-5309 GM Fishbowl.
Wow....I didn't realize they made "deck and a half" Fishbowls?
-F.
Not the Liberty Lines charter that was taking them to Bloomingdales,I'm talking about the bus he was on at the beginning of the film (giving direction to the tourist)
Oh, I see; which movie was this again?
-F.
[Oh, I see; which movie was this again?]
"Moscow on the Hudson," starring Robin Williams.
Ok, cool. Gotta make a list of these movies. Maybe we should all get together and go have a Bus Matinee party in NYC when BusFest 2002 rolls around.
-F.
Of course, the feature presentation has to be "Speed". The sad scene is when that 870 gets blown up towards the beginning.
No kidding; I am STILL pissed about that. Hell, they could have used a mockup or something. Maybe if they put a fake 870 body on a Gillig or a Bluebird I wouldn't have been so upset.
-F.
Yeah, I was scarred by that scene!! Of course seeing that RTS blown to bits in Under Seige was sad too.
A Blue Bird or Gillig would have drawn a standing ovation from me!! The only accident I ever had as a bus driver was with a Blue Bird. That tail swing, boy, its a doozy.
Yeah...I know. Even better, they should have filmed it in DC and blown up one of those GOD awful Orion IIs. That's not a bus...it's a frigging shoebox that got stepped on! Now THAT should be killed on the silver screen.
Note to Hollywood: LEAVE OUR GRUMMANS ALONE! How would you like it if a bus got a mind of their own and ran over Catherine Zeta-Jones? That's basically what you have done; you have destroyed one of the most beautiful things on this Earth. Shame on you.
-F.
The CHips movie that is on all the time on TNT was great for bus watching as you mentioned. Nice amount of Flx's. I saw that actress that was driving the bus in NYC in Little Italy at this one restaurant. She was hot. I didn't have a chance to say anything to her as I was trying to get up the street to catch the M103 back to my hotel.
Yeah, those Orion II's are pathetic. I've never been on one, though.
You mean CHiPs '99? Yeah, there were a couple nice Flxes on there masquerading as tour buses. Also, in the original series, many RTSes and Fishbowls can be seen, along with the occasional Flx New Look. CHiPs is on from 7-8 AM EST on TNT.
-F.
The Orion II's only last for about 10 years then they start to get engine fires. The Orion II is used where I live for mostly accessible transit..he he
Really? This is even better...the New Flyer LFs at the TA I drove for weren't even a year or two old, and one of them had a turbo fire while operating at SRO! Meanwhile, its older Flxible and RTS stablemates were under the same pressure and rolling along with virtually no problems.
-F.
[Wow....I didn't realize they made "deck and a half" Fishbowls?]
I've never heard anyone refer to a GMC deck-and-a-half as a fishbowl. My understanding is that GMC new looks got the fishbowl nickname because of their large curved windshields. The windshields on the deck-and-a-halfs were definitely smaller.
Wayne
It was a mix-up. A Fishbowl and a deck-and-a-half were mentioned in the same post and I thought perhaps it was a hybrid. My bad!
-F.
COOL! Thanks for the sighting.
-Fred Donaher
Coach Potato
Another sighting from the "Coach Potato": I just saw a New Flyer LF whizzing down the road during the "stakeout" on Wayne's World 2. The bus had black around the windows with a WMATA-style red and blue stripe down the sides; any idea what TA this was? (The movie takes place in Aurora, IL.) Another note is that Christopher Walken stars in the movie as well.
I doubt that it was a CTA low floor, since Wayne's World 2 came out in 1993. In any event, Aurora is actually in the suburbs of Chicago - Kane County to be exact - however, the movie itself was filmed in the LA area.
I saw Trading Places last weekend. There are close-up shots of Dan Akyroyd boarding and riding a '70's SEPTA Flxible. There are also shots of more Flxibles and Budd el cars at Frankford Terminal during the opening credits.
All that The Sixth Sense shows is Bruce Willis and that boy riding a Suburban Neoplan.
Is there anything in Rocky?
In Rocky V ,Sly Stallone and Tommy Morrison are fighting in the street against a SEPTA Flxible(that isn't there museum bus per chance is it).
No way! Gotta see this! I don't remember that Flx in Rocky V at ALL! Then again, it has been at least 10 years since I saw it...
-F.
I remember that in one of the scenes you could hear a SEPTA 3000 Neoplan bus. How old is trading places? I mean, if it's brand new I'd be interested in seeing how they have a bunch of SEPTA Flxibles and Budd cars, particularly if all were retired, especially the Flixibles which were retired for over 2 decades now.
The movie is from 1983 or 84.
Oh, then makes makes sense. The would still probably be a lot of Flixibles still around then, and the Budd trains were definitely plentiful.
Actually, the spelling is Flxibles, not Flixibles. :)
-F.
"Trading Places" came out around 1983 or so; at that time, the bus would have been a late model. However, when I was in Lancaster, PA in late 1993, they still had Flx New Looks and Grummans in service, much to my delight. At the time, it made me feel right at home as those are what we had in Roanoke!
-F.
There is an old model Flxible that still runs down Market St. in center city Philly during the week. It lays over on 5th St. just north of Market. It's painted green, purple, and white. I don't know who runs it (Creighton might know), but it must be someone with some major bus preservation talent--the thing's at least 25 years old!!
No way...a New Look still in service? Get some photos of that thing...I've GOTTA see this!
-F.
It's been discussed at this board quite a bit, so I'll refresh everyone's memory. It's an ex-NY Bus Service fishbowl which operates for Burlington Tours in South Jersey. This bus (and occasionally, an MC-9) operate between Center City and an apartment complex somewhere outside of Camden (I think it's Cooper River Plaza, which might actually be in Pennsauken).
I knew about the Trading Places flxes; that is what glued me to the movie. Also, I'm not sure about Rocky but I do know that the Corgi CTA Fishbowl model comes with a side ad sign for Rocky V, which proved the longevity of this bus as it is a 1972 model with a 1990 movie advertised on its side.
-F.
Hmm...true. Being that it was 1993 I don't think it was a LF but it definitely had that slight New Flyer slant in the rear. And the stripes weren't quite CTA.
-F.
Folks, I saw a classic episode of WKRP again yesterday morning; this is the one where Dr. Johnny Fever crashes at Bailey's place for a few days, much to the speculation of the "Big Guy" et al. Also, as the station ID comes on at the beginning, a Queen City Metro Flx New Look rolls by outside the station. Shortly after, Dr. Fever's temporary "yuppie scumbag" replacement spins "Our Lips Are Sealed" by the Go-Gos. Every time I hear this song now, I think of WKRP and Cincinnati Flxes.
-F.
Actually, the video for "Our Lips Are Sealed" shows the Go-Go's driving behind an RTS (I can't recall the number, it was something like 8381) and while they are in the fountain splashing around a GMC New Look goes by.
That's uncanny; I need to take another look at that video! It's ironic that you mention 8381 as that was the number of the only surviving Flx New Look ADB rebuild when it wore Baltimore MTA colors. (Ironically, the bus was originally 1974 Flx New Look no. 800 of Queen City Metro in Cincinnati; there is a possibility that it may have been the very same one on WKRP if not a stablemate!).
Thanks for the info; gotta Go-Go for now!
-Fred Donaher
The "Coach Potato"
Its funny that you mention that because as soon as I said 8381, I thought the same thing. I really don't remember the bus number as it's only shown for a second, but I thought it was something similar, but I could be way off.
Hmm...OK, gotta go find the video. Song massively stuck in my head right now...Doesn't matter what you say....Mmmm....Flxes...Hey hey hey....Our Lips Are Sealed....must....watch....more....WKRP. Hey, it's on in a few more hours anyway.
-F.
Sometimes VH1 will show that video. I know this weekend is supposed to be "80's weekend" so, maybe it will be played. I remember seeing the WKRP openings with the Flx rolling by. I don't think its on up here, though.
Do you get TNN? If so, WKRP shows from 10-11AM EST. I'll have to keep a lookout for the Go-Gos and the buses on VH-1's 80s Weekend. Our Eyes Are Peeled....
-F.
Ahh, ok, yes I have TNN. Unfortunately, I'm at work all day, but I could tape it. WKRP should have done what a WMZQ here in DC did once, which is ride around and do a live broadcast on a metrobus. They were on 4094 on the J2 from Silver Spring to Montgomery Mall. This was about 4 or 5 years ago. The only time I listened to that statlon. LOL
On SNL once, they had a Wayne's World sketch and they said that Our Lips are Sealed can be mistaken for "Islands of Seals". LOL
LOL...Islands of Seals! Hey, that's cool; I used to be a DJ at WROV here in Roanoke and never got to do that. Oh, if only I was at that station in DC...then I could have gotten to ride around in that nice looking Flx all day!
When I was at WROV, I did, however, do a neat bus-related stunt....a fellow DJ announced in 1996 that he would run for president. My recurring character (a frustrated Chinese man named Hoang Lo) volunteered himself as his unofficial campaign manager and procured a tour bus, which was a Gillig Phantom stolen from our local TA. Hoang traveled the country on the bus, getting in trouble: running naked in the streets, getting arrested, beaten, and chased by the cops along the way. The whole thing ended in a climax that you would just have to hear to believe.
We did the whole saga again at my friend's new home station (Z101) for last year's election and took it to a whole new level; once again, a Gillig was swiped, and this time Hoang even wreaked havoc in Canada, paid homage to WKRP on the way through Cincinnati, taunted the Bush family, and even outran Erik Estrada. I have the whole thing on tape if anyone ever wants to hear the whole thing. It's priceless.
-F.
That's hilarious. I think the passengers that boarded the metrobus were pretty confused. I believe one other station here in DC did something similar as well.
Sounds like you had a lot of fun as a DJ. At least you did something original.
Yeah, it was a blast...didn't pay much, but it was an experience. And I got more action from the ladies as a DJ than I ever have in my entire life...LOL. I'll have to make sure I'm in DC more often. Especially while the Flxes are still around.
-F.
Watching Moonstruck yesterday on TNT there are 2 seperate scenes that feature buses .One is clearly marked (1981 RTS-O4 #1336)and the other which the # can't be see is a New Look Flxible(possible a 1976 9000 series with the last paint job the New Looks had.
That's neat; I'll have to see those! Also, I saw a Flyer E800 trolley coach in "So I Married an Axe Murderer". Keep on looking for those silver screen superstars!
-F.
Another sighting tonight :ESPN Classic is showing Major Legaue,the opening credits show both a RTA Flxible Metro and a RTA RTS(not sure if it is a 04 or a 06)
What colors where the Flxible and the RTS have?
White with a Red stripe -If you watch Drew Carey you will see teh same thing.
I get it! I have saw those on TV before.
I watch Drew religiously and have yet to see an RTA bus. The older ones have the red and orange stripe (my favorite scheme), while newer buses have a red and blue "wave" stripe. I really wish I had time to ride their Flx Metros while I was there, but I did have the pleasure of riding the restored CTS 1959 Fishbowl no. 641, courtesy of the good folks at OMOT.
Another pop culture note: the Fishbowl is featured in the movie "Telling Lies In America" starring Kevin Bacon, Brad Renfro, and Callista Flockhart of "Ally McBeal" fame. The movie is set in early 1960s Cleveland; the bus is seen in several shots during the movie, and Renfro and Flockhart are see riding it in a couple scenes. In fact, when I rode 641 last summer, the seats were still unbolted where the camera was mounted!
Also, if you're ever in Cleveland to see the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I strongly suggest riding the Rapid Rail's Waterfront Line; it goes straight to the Museum, and it's a blast!
[I watch Drew religiously and have yet to see an RTA bus. The older ones have the red and orange stripe (my favorite scheme), while newer buses have a red and blue "wave" stripe.]
Recurring bus shots...
1. Opening credits: At one point, the whole cast is posed in front of an RTA Flxible - the stripe is visible, even with Mimi in full makeup.
2. Living room shots: There's a scale model of a bus (in RTA colors) on a table.
Special bus shot: This season's "Drew-dies-but-he's-really-in-a-coma" storyline began with Drew running to catch a bus and getting hit by a car.
Ooh....gotta see that. Drew Carey RULES!
-F.
Drew was running after a Flyer D901A with Ornage,Pink,White,and Black paint job. And even have a PINK RTA Logo in the front. I was just woundering if RTA have ever had Flyers?
PINK? Must have been faded. I don't recall Cleveland having any Flyer 901As; to my knowledge they are primarily a Flxible and RTS fleet. I never saw any Flyers when I was there last summer, at least not near 80/90 or the Waterfront Line.
-F.
D'OH....I missed it! Did anybody tape this? I was too busy watching "Pecker" on Comedy Central (yes, I swear that is the title of the movie). Not only is it a funny flick, but it is set in Baltimore and features lots of inside and outside shots of MTA Flx Metros; the main one seen is a "D" or "E" model which has been renumbered 7734 (which, cleverly, is "HELL" upside down"; also, MTA no. 8405 is shown, which is a Metro "A". The destination sign on both read "27 HAMPDEN".
Other buses included in "Pecker" are some Greyhound MC-12s (no. 2539 and 2412) and an MC-9 pulling away from a curb. Definitely a feast for the busfans and "coach potatoes"!
-F.
P.S.: The movie has inspired me to make a model of the MTA Flx Metro; look for it to show up o eBay soon.
-F.
Excuse ME! Do you have cable or DTV? I have DTV and I get over 600 Channels on it.
I just have cable; wow, that's amazing that you get 600 channels! Bet you see TONS of buses on it. I'm telling ya, if you like buses, you've gotta see "Pecker"; it's a great flick and full of nice-looking MTA Flxibles!
-F.
And how about NABI's?
Yeah...those are good lookers too. Somehow they remind me of Flx Metros....ESPECIALLY in MTA colors!
-F.
I didn't see any NABIs in "Pecker" but they are good-looking buses too!
-F.
It would have to be an RTS-06, since "Major League" came out in 1989. That year, GCRTA took delivery of 77 T8O-206 RTS-6 coaches.
That's right; I saw an 8900 series RTS on the Waterfront line. I also drooled when I saw all of the nice Flx Metros in the area. Very nice buses! OK, gotta see Major League....gotta see Major League...
-F.
On FOX 5 News one time. A lady witch was talking. Behind her where 5 Ave and a MTA Orion6 Hybird pass behind her.
On NY1 back in May. It was showing Bay Ridge,NY and it first show a Prvite Transit Orion1 at a traffic light by 4 Ave. Then it show a church and it also show a Monsey Trails MCI MC9B turning I think onto 4 Ave on Bus service to Rockland County,NY.
For those of you that would like to know. Anouther show on TV that is great to see MTA Buses is Good Morning America in Times Square. I did saw on that show one time. It show a New Flyer D40 1 Door on TV. And also saw what it aperrs to be a MTA Orion5 Suburban in Times Square.
On the Weather Chanel one time. It show a NYBS MCI Classic on 5 Ave. And also it show a MARTA C40LF on ROute 30 on the Headsign.
On FOX 5 News one time. A lady witch was talking. Behind her where 5 Ave and a MTA Orion6 Hybird pass behind her.
...as she flew by on her broom.
LOL!!!!
LOL!!! Now THAT's what I call a NEW flyer!
-F.
somebody call for me? LOL
Ironic that you say that; 857 is a local telephone exchange here in Roanoke. Talk about the irony!
-F.
I just made this my handle b/c 857 was the first 2000 C40LF delivered to the TA.
Neat! Well, I guess you know where I got my handle then....:)
-F.
I certainly do.
Did you post that just for the sake of posting something?
It was transit-related and it's always good to hear about buses in the news and on TV.
-F.
every moring on Good Morning America i always see a nyc rts.
That is usually running on the M42 X-town and/or the s/b M6-Bdwy to So.Ferry.They both run out of the Hudson Pier Depot on West Side Hi-way and about W23rd Street .It is the dumping ground for ancient Mabstoa RTS's as well
I also see a Orion5 on M7 or M104 on TV as well.
That's neat. When I passed through Cleveland last summer on my way back from Michigan, I saw a news article on TV about the 25th anniversary of the RTA; in it was a Flx Metro in a special paint scheme to commemorate the celebration. I believe the news also noted that if the special Flx pulled up to your curb, the ride was free. :)
-F.
I've been informed by a PBS-fan relative that a recent childrens' edition of the British Antiques Roadshow (which pre-dates the U.S. version) featured a kid with a collection of over 200 model buses. (Obviously, he'd brought only a few for the expert to appraise.) My relative caught only the tail end of that segment, so she didn't get any details about the buses.
Did any BusTalkers happen to see that?
Hmm...I'd love to see that. SOunds like my kind of people!
:)
-F.
I saw a bus I did not recognize in Los Angeles the other day and attempted to identify it by looking at the bus pictures on this site and other bus sites on the web, but was not able to make a positive identification. The problem is that many photos on this site and others do not identify the type of bus pictured (I guess bus fans expect all other bus fans to recognize buses on sight), nor are buses pictured in groups of similar buses similar to the way the subway pictures are grouped on this site.
What was unusual about the bus that I saw was that it was a low floor bus with a rear window about 5/8 th of the way across the back on the right side. It looked like there was a passenger seat right at that window. The front of the bus looked similar to the one on the BusTalk Logo. Los Angeles has received a lot of new NABI low floor buses lately, but this was not one of them. I am sure someone recognizes it from the description. What really had me scratching my head was trying to figure out where the engine was since the passengers were all the way to back window. Is the engine in a compartment like the restroom on an inter city bus?
Tom
The bus you rode on was a Orion 6 . This bus is so crapy I don't know why Los Angeles bothered to buy them. The engine can vary depending on what the city transit system wanted.
I beg to differ, the NYCT, WMATA, & Ride On Orion 6 units are awesome. Fast and gives a beautiful smooth ride! I guess LACMTA got some duds becuase the NYC, MD and DC units are by far superior!
Take ride, you'll agree!!!!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Well I don't mind Orion 6's since there fast but ones running in some Ontario transit systems are lemons...they tend to break down all the time. This could that they we're the first ones produced. I think the Orion 5 was much better then the Orion 6.
>>> I guess LACMTA got some duds <<<
I do not know about that since I only saw it from the outside. The opinion that they are crappy was MCI_Classic's, not mine, and I do not know which buses he has experience with. But I still wonder where they put the engine and the air conditioning. There did not seem to be any room for the engine unless it was under the rear passenger seats. Is this by any chance the hybrid CNG/electric bus I have been hearing about?
Tom
The hybrid version of this bus (10 in NYC) is cosmetically similar to the Orion VI in LA. The LA bus is, I believe, a CNG bus.
The cylinders are stored within the distinctive thick roof on this model, eliminating the need for an additional enclosure on top.
The Orion6 that you saw is the 2001 Orion6 Diesel. #11001-#11067. Those buses is being use with it's contracter ATE First Transit.
These buses are numbered 11000-11066 NOT 11001-11067. MTA and affiliated agencies are excellent about starting orders at xx00, or in this case, xxx00. The only order in recent memory that started at xx01 was 6301-6600 Neoplans. The next order was 6700-6799.
Starting at 1 makes more sense. There's would never be a bus 0, why should there be a bus 100, 1000 or 10000?
Starting at 1 makes more sense. There's would never be a bus 0, why should there be a bus 100, 1000 or 10000?
I could not disagree more. First of all, the MTA contract Orions are indeed numbered 11000-11066 whether you like it or not. Save for the 1997-1998 Neoplans, all other bus orders in LA start at xx00. Almost every other large TA in the country starts at xx00, including systems in NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Seattle, Houston, and now, even Washington. The only major TA that consistently starts at xx01 is SEPTA.
True, there never would be a bus '0', but most authorities number their buses in series batches, not sequentially.
For almost every large TA, the first two digits of the fleet number indicate the type of bus or the order from which the bus came. In most cases, these numbers do not have any direct pertainence to any characteristic of the vehicle. It wastes entire hundred series to start at xx01, especially when buses are ordered in even multiples of 100. For instance, SEPTA's 400 NABIs are numbered 5001-5400. It would have made so much more sense to number them 5000-5399, meaning the entire 5000, 5100, 5200, and 5300 series are NABIs. But because they just had to start at 5001, there is a lone NABI which spills over into the 5400s, otherwise the series for New Flyers. Buses that have the same first two digits for their fleet numbers should be the same type of bus, rather than #5400 being a NABI and #5401 being a New Flyer.
Where is does make sense to start at xx01 is when the first two numbers actually mean something. So for TAs using year-numbering, it absolutely makes sense to start at xx01. Same goes for when the first two digits indicate the seating capacity of the vehicle. This means that one could spot #9504 at a glance and instantly say "That's the fourth bus purchased in 1995," or to see #2907 and say "That's the seventh bus that has 29 seats."
But, when NYCT buys 350 Orions and numbers them in the 6000-6100-6200-6300s, there is no reason to need to recognize the number at a glance. I'll admit that it's a little confusing to see #6150 and say "That's the 151st bus in the 6000-series," but since the 6000 series itself has no direct importance to the bus, it really is not that important to be able to do this. And for systems with a lot of buses, this minor confusion is worth the preservation of true series numbering.
San Francisco Muni generally follows my preference to a tee (except for two recent orders). They have several batches of year-numbered buses which start at xx01, but most of the buses which are not year-numbered start at xx00. Their 100 new Neoplan artics are numbered 6200-6299. What would be the point of numbering them 6201-6300? It still creates an xx00 number and just wastes the entire 6300 series.
Kudos to WMATA for switching over to xx00.
The only times I remember this being done in NYC is with the RTSs (1201, 2201) and with Orions (101-680). I am not sure but I think the Grummans also had PA1-PAXXX.
I agree with the idea on there can not be a bus "0", otherwise there would be no buses at all. It is also easier, like mentioned that for buses in the same batch to start with XX00, but one may confuse a counting principle.
This is the same idea concerning the MILLENIUM. Is it 2000 or 2001?
Everyone has different opinions. For counting purposes, it makes sense for XX01. For batches, it makes sense for XX00.
The most recent NYCT bus order to really start at xx01 was the 1983 RTS-04s, 3001-3325.
The 1993 Orions start at 101 because they were orginally year-numbered, but then REnumbered. The year designation was dropped, but each bus kept its last two digits. Same goes for the 1993 RTS-06s. They were to be numbered 93501-93667 (or something close to that) but the 935xx designation was quickly dropped and changed to 84xx-85xx. Like the Orions, only the first digits were changed, hence the first 1993 is 8401 rather than 8400. Then came the 1994 batch, 8600-8703. I suppose NYCT wanted more mileage out of the 8700 series, so the 1996 Novas started at 8750, although even 8750 was delivered as 8751. This was promptly changed, and NYCT has started new batches at xx00 ever since.
The interesting quirk about recent NYCT numbering is that the prototype for an order is xx01, then the production units are xx00 and xx02-xx??. Like for the 1999 Novas, the first one was delivered in late 1998 with the number 4901. When the rest came, they were numbered 4900 and 4902-5249. Same thing with the New Flyers and 1999 Orions.
8400 was part of the 8000s TMC I thought, but became a police bus.
"8400" was an add-on to NYCT's order for 167 buses (8401-8567). It was never intended for NYCT service and was never numbered 8400.
David
NYC-TA has been on both sides of this over the years. The last few old look orders started with 00 (7000 and 9000), but the first new look bus was #1. The next few follow-up new look orders also began with 01 (501, 1001, 2001). I don't have the subsequent orders at my fingertips right now, but I'll bet there was some switching between 00 and 01 for other new look orders.
>>> The Orion6 that you saw is the 2001 Orion6 Diesel. #11001-#11067. Those buses is being use with it's contracter ATE First Transit. <<<
I will have to take a closer look the next time I see that bus to get its number. I seem to remember seeing a blue diamond "CNG" sticker on its rear bumper. That's what made me think it was CNG powered. What is "ATE First Transit"? This bus was in LAMTA livery without any special identifying marks.
Tom
ATE First Transit is the Contracter for LA Metro. That Contracter runs mainly 200 Series Routes. Like LA Metro Route 256 for example. BUT Contract Buses are painted in the same Paint Job as the other buses. Also LA Metro have a contracter from Coach USA. Have mainly 100 Series Routes and I think Route 71 also. And they have LA Metro Contract buses and also have Ex OCTA Gilligs(Some could have been sold to AVTA.) And have those Thomas Buses too.
Contractor-operated MTA buses wear the same colors as MTA-operated buses. Sometimes, in a small font below the rubrail, the operator is identified.
A good way to tell a contractor bus from an MTA bus is the farebox. MTA-operated units have fareboxes that I've only seen on LACMTA and Maryland MTA; I am not sure who makes them. The contractor buses, at least most of them, have more common GFI Genfare Cents-a-bill fareboxes.
When contractors used to run old 8200-series RTSs, the buses sported a slightly different paint scheme; a thin, single red stripe below the windows instead of the MTA gold or red/orange.
>>> Contractor-operated MTA buses wear the same colors as MTA-operated buses. <<<
It comes as a surprise to me that the LAMTA has contractors for some of its routes. Are these contractors union? If so, what is the advantage for the MTA in using contractors? If not, why does the union let them get away with non-union contracting?
Tom
[Are these contractors union?]
From what I had heard, I believe that ATE/First Transit and Coach USA are unionized, but Laidlaw is non-union.
You are right; the LA VIs are diesels.
I stand corrected from our previous posting.
>>> You are right; the LA VIs are diesels <<<
Are you sure? I seem to remember that in 2000, the AQMD (Air Quality Management District) required all new buses and garbage trucks in L.A. to burn alternate fuels, i.e. not diesel fuel.
Tom
I passed by Ulmer Park today, and saw that most of the MCI were parked in the garage, and not on the street like normally. In fact, there were ornly 4 buses parked outside. And #9341 and #9322 were on the B3 today. Did Ulmer Park move buses around in terms of parking, or is Ulmer Park so short of buses that they have to put the express out there>?
Most MCI's are now parked inside the yard along with the NOVA RTS coaches. This way, nothing has to be moved in there all weekend. Local Busses are parked out on the street on weekends and during weeknights. You'll find the MCI's parked on the street weekday aftenoons between the AM & PM Rush.
The Nova RTS Coaches have been used on the local routes quite often lately. I was inside a few of them on Friday, and it shows -- ripped seats and scratched windows are becoming more common.
Saw #9289 on the X68 on 7/6/01. It had scrattchi on the windows allready. And was talking to a driver on the M15(run #050-#5037)-he said that drivers dont like the articualted buses becasue they are only paid an additional 25c per hour to drive these. If the buses are that big, why dont they pay the drivers like 1 or 2 dollars more?
Using standard MTA logic, if a B/O were to take a D60HF out for a tour or two, and had to be paid an additional $1 or $2 per hour, then to balance out the spreadsheets service would have to be cut so that one D60 would take the place of 2.5 Nova RTS locals.
I don't know if this type of logic is really used, but I've seen it in action on the M79, M86, and on the Bx12. And frankly, it stinks.
Okay, this is definitely off-topic. But maybe slightly more interesting than my previous off-topic submission of "The Payphone Project", which lists almost every available pay telephone number nationwide.
This time, I cam across "Where's George"? But my exposure to the website wasn't online, it was a URL stamped onto a US Dollar Bill. Out of curiousity, I visited the site and registered a few bills.
Do you ever wonder where that paper money in your pocket has been, or where it will go next? This is the place to find out.
All you need to do is enter the denomination, series, and serial number of any US dollar bill, and your current USA ZIP, then have the tracking results emailed to you directly, or instead, visit the posted database!
Seems somewhat interesting, although definitely not transit related :-)
http://www.wheresgeorge.com
Did you enter it? Was it stamped in red or blue?
I'm a member.
You have entered 2,111 Bills worth $7,902.
Bills with hits: 191
Total hits: 206
Hit rate: 9.05%.
George Score: 810.
Your rank (based on George Score) is #631.
-Hank :)
As of yesterday. I became an official "Georger" LOL!
The Great American Dollar Bill Locator
Hello, Brooklyn67
You have entered 15 Bills worth $56.
Bills with hits: 0
Total hits: 0
Hit rate: 0.00%.
George Score: 0.
Congratulations! You are tied for First Place
among all the users that have no George Score yet.
The bill I found the address on was stamped in pink, using (what I assume was) the 3-lined official "Where's George" stamp. Unfortunately, not knowing what "Where's George" was, I spent the bill before logging the serial number. I accessed the site because I remembered the URL from the bill.
Hank, those are some pretty impressive Georger numbers! How long have you been a member? Do you still have the same interest level as when you began? I don't know that I would remain as active as I am right now... we'll see :-)
There are over 600 bills entered from my zip-code (excluding my own), so apparently I'm not the only Georger in my area, which should greatly increase my future hits.
I circulated my 15 bills late last night.
Since last February, and not really. And you'd be surprised how it works. I took some bills with me on the Silver Meteor to GA, and one of those bills I spent on the southbound train got a hit in Brooklyn.
-Hank
i got a hit on the bill i registered. put it in like in november last year, got a hit in seattle, wash the other day
Ihave always wondered why the MTA/TA never bought any of these RTS models. Does anybody have a clue?
I believe the RTS WFD lends itself to a wheelchair lift at the front door. Historically, MTA-NYC Bus has wanted the wheelchair lift at the rear door.
Not quite the case. The Flxible 870s had front door lifts (yes, some had lifts, and they were maintained when Flx rehabbed and resold them to NJT and others). The main reason for sticking with the standard narrow front door RTS is parts and maintenance. The TA had 9 years worth of RTSs in their fleet before the WFD )model 08) was introduced by TMC. Why order a completely different front end when your mechanics and body people can fix the existing fleet in their sleep? Unlike the difference between the two "Jersey caps" on the NJT MC-9s, this was a major difference in structure and equipment.
The TA policy of wanting only rear door wheelchair lifts came into existence at the time of or subsequent to its acquisition of its first RTS's in 1981, so the earlier Grumman 870 buses with lifts were not affected by that policy. Although I don't know of that policy first-hand, I remember reading about it in several writings while it was in existence. There are no doubt other reasons the TA never ordered the RTS WFD.
Cool..I didn't know the Grummans had lifts at NYCTA!
-F.
Quite a few TAs were taken in by GMC's marketing effort that the rear-door lift kept the mechanicals away from the most commonly damaged area of the bus (the front end in bumper collisions). I would imagine that NYCTA was so upset with the performance of those early 870s that they believed everything GMC told them at the time.
There wasn't much else to choose from in 1980 when that first RTS order was placed, either.
I'm glad they haven't; those are UGLY!!!
-F.
while heading north on whitestone expwy about 1130 friday night, saw orion 112 (repowered, btw) in the right lane just past linden place with the engine, a/c access, radiator doors open and billowing smoke, with 5 pieces of pieces of fire apparatus surrounding it.
i would guess it was on its way to zerega anyway. only after this fire, i suspect it got there by tow.
Orions seem to feel very hot in the back seats. Rode LI bus 145 which the whole back of the bus was a furnace, that Cummins was running hot. No one even sat back there. The bus engine was creating so much heat. Also seen some of CS Orions quite hot as well.
Well this weather is a strain on buses. Do they ever try to cool them down, like hose the engine off or something?
Also why have there been so many Orion fires whereas RTS's don't seem to have this problem? Perhaps the engine compartment in the RTS's is better.
Is it only the CNG Orions that have the Cummins? The CNG versions seems to have a different that the diesels. Also, do you know what number series that seem to have this problem?
LI Bus CNG Orions 100-245, 270-287 use Cummins L10G engines. 288 and up are the newest which use the Detroit Diesel series 50G engines.
That solves that mystery. Thanx.
Just curious. Does the MTA run school runs during the summer for summer school kids? Reason asking - while on X15, passed by S76 going to Oakwood (Orion V) - and passes directly in front of New Dorp High School - PACKED with kids in the front door stepwell and the entire bus. I have never seen a bus that packed in years.
The depots see activity on the 1/2 & free fare school passes all year round ... are they all going to school .....
Mr t__:^)
Well today saw 2 S76s PACKED again, going to New Dorp High School, and a S74 packed with kids b/c the S76s couldn't fit anymore.
They run some extra short trips due to student load, but not school runs.
-Hank
Exiting the Battery Tunnel this morning, I am almost sure I saw Orion V 145 in Express Service heading back to SI. Does QV no longer need them for the LIRR?
Confirmed positive sighting of 145 and 153 on the Gowanus this morning.
Back to Edgewater perhaps to join the others? I don't think QV needs the 100 Series Orions as they have the 600s. Also those relics are still rollin rollin rollin. I saw 1852 on the Q75 yesterday.
Also noticed a lot of Orions on the local lines: 624 Q46, 617 AND 626 on the Q31. Strange to see Orions on the Q31.
Q31#626Gary
Q46#616Gary
They're in EXPRESS service - a lot of Orions have been running in express - more than I usually see.
Possible buses are being used for the extra service that was added to the X-12 and X-17 due to Academy ending its service
Thank You
You want strange? How about 621 on the Q43!!
Saw A LOT of Orions, more than normally see on Express runs from Castleton. Anything going on??? MCI Problems?
I thought by now all UP runs were to be MCIs except one NOVA on the X29. Then why am I seeing NOVAs on many routes, like X25, X28, and X29?
Since we're in summer -- rerun season in the Land of Television -- let's go through this One More Time:
According to the schedule, all AM trips on the X29 are to be made by (Nova) RTS buses. Since some X25 trips are provided by runs on the X29, some of the X25 trips will be covered by RTSs if an RTS was pulled out by the X29 Operator making the trip. In the PM, all X29 trips are to be covered by MCIs if available, except for O-N-E. That trip is covered by a run on the X29 that pulls into Michael Quill Depot after its morning trip. Since what goes up must come down, if an RTS is used in the morning it will be used again in the afternoon by the same driver.
David
Reason asking -
Someone posted the complete UP pick schedule a while ago, and all total, there came to about 88 Runs or so for the X27,28,29 out of UP.
UP has 100 MCIs - more than enough for each run to have it's own bus and some spares.
Then why use NOVAs?
The list is message # 33007.
http://bustalk.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=33007
Ulmer Park needs 99 express buses in the A.M. peak. The reason you counted only 88 runs is that you didn't take into account the 10 to 15 runs on other routes (B4, B6, B64, B74, etc) that do morning trips on the express routes. There are 95 MCI's (not 100) assigned to the depot to handle the 86 A.M. pull outs that are required on the X27 and X27. With a 12% spare factor that is about right. If there are any MCI's left over that are not in the shop, they go on the X29.
that was me who did the post of the runs for te x25,x27,x28 and x29. I guess the extra buses are for the fall pick i suppose.
Please don't guess; read "scedman"'s post from last night. He answered the question accurately. To summarize:
There are no "extra" MCIs in Ulmer Park. The "extra" buses are being driven on the X27 and X28 routes by Bus Operators assigned to the B3, B4, B6, and B74 routes. This is called "interlining." Half of the Operator's workday consists of express work, with the other half consisting of local work. And there are 95 MCIs in Ulmer Park, not 100.
David
I'm moving the "Field Trip to the Beaches of Rock & Long" from Tuesday to Thursday because "... there is a strong possibility of rain Tuesday afternoon ...".
For those who didn't see the trip in this site's "Comming Events" it will start at Jay Street. Buy your FUN PASS and be at the head end at 6 PM, we'll take the first railfan window equiped R-38. One stop is planned at Rockaway Blvd. At Far Rockaway we'll transfer to LI Bus N33 (they run about every half hour). At the LIRR Long Beach station we'll either walk or take City of Long Beach bus to the beach. Was by the Turquorise establishment on the board walk last week. The kitchen was open near 8 PM, but the one employee staffing it was in the dark ... very strange. The Ice Cream section was doing a brisk business (treated my son & his wife to a birthday cone ... he's 26). There was also a live band at the bar next door.
Then it's back to the LIRR station where the N15 or RxR will get you back to the City.
Heard from a dear friend who will be joining us ... many of you will remember him from Museum tours. He'll be part of the 1/2 dozen or so confirmed attendees ... so come & join us !
Note on Main Street, Flushing ... haven't heard from anyone who can make it there at 4 PM ... e-mail me if you plan to be there or I will leave about 3:15 & have a short meeting with a MetroCard swapping friend at mid-town.
P.S. At this point only have one BusTalker attending ... hay guys & gails this subway ride is realy nice & above ground most of the way !
Mr t__:^)
The southbound M57 stops at 66th, 64th, 63rd, and 61st. Isn't that spacing a bit close, particularly in a relatively sparsely populated area like that part of West End Avenue?
The spacing of stops is a bit close together but I'm sure they will all be necessary once the Trump buildings reach full occupancy.
Bus stops in much more densely packed areas are the usual 2-3 blocks apart. Or are Trump's residents unable to walk a block?
For the money Trump is charging for those buildings I'm surprised that the residents aren't demanding that the M57 & M72 provide service directly to their front door.
Don't they all have limo drivers anyways? I guess you do need bus service for the people who actually work at the apartment and the nanny's, maids, etc.
I can't speculate as to why the stops are so close together, but one might figure that they've survived precisely because they aren't used. If each run had to stop at each of the four stops, you can be they'd spread them out. Once Trump fills up, they'll probably eliminate a few.
CG
Your assumption isn't entirely valid.
I was going to 61st Street. As we pulled out of 64th, I was about to ring (I knew the bus stopped at 61st and I figured it was the next stop), but someone else beat me to it -- and it turns out she was also going to 61st. She apologized profusely to the driver as he stopped the bus a block later, but it didn't really matter as someone was getting on there anyway.
As for why the stops are so close together, I can guess. I remember the bus used to stop at 60th instead of 61st. I don't remember all the other stops, but my guess is that it stopped at 66th, 64th, 62nd, 60th, and 58th before turning onto 57th. One day, the stops from 62nd on south were each bumped up one block, and nobody noticed that this resulted in two stops a block apart. (Just a guess. I've never used any of the M57's West End stops except at 60th/61st so I don't remember all the details.)
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Was in Broolyn on Thursday and I saw on the B-100 route Bus Number 4978 which was a RTS which i believe were one of the 3 that the TA gave to Command.
Thank You
Buses 4976-4978 are the Ex-MTA buses. Bus 4976 is 8398, bus 4977 is 8399 and bus 8567 is 4978.
Ray
Saw and photographed 4976 (ex-8398) at the paint shop in Long Island this past weekend. Only 4977 and 4978 are currently in service. These buses still have the original hard blue seats from the TA.
Peace,
Kevin
www.transitworld.org
Are they going to change the seats at least?
Q46 Nova RTS#9288 asked: Are they going to change the seats at least?
NOPE!
~~Kevin
I was wondering where some of the NYCT spec RTS buses went. So I guess some went to Command. Anybody know what number series of RTS buses the TA gave to them?
8398, 8399, 8567!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Those buses are not that old, but I'm glad they have a second life at CB. Thanks for the info.
[Was in Brooklyn on Thursday and I saw on the B-100 route Bus Number 4978 which was a RTS which i believe were one of the 3 that the TA gave to Command.]
Technically speaking, Transit gave/sold those buses to NYCDOT, which then assigned them to Command.
If Transit gives buses to Command, then why dont they do this to Green or Triboro to replace the older RTS buses running there?
Green Lines have a Orion5 CNG order of 140 Buses to replace the Older RTS's. If anybody did not know about this. I tell you. Green Lines are buliding a CNG Gas line for those buses. And there was a order of 102 Orion5 CNG's for Triboro. BUT they gave the order to Green Lines b/c they are haveing problems with the CNG Orion5's and CNG RTS's. So I think that's the reason why Triboro are useing Hard Seaters on Express Lines and Orion5 CNG's on local routes. BTW got on #3046 on Q23 a few days ago.
Q23 Orion5 #3046
[If Transit gives buses to Command, then why don't they do this to Green or Triboro to replace the older RTS buses running there?]
Please go back to my previous post and READ it...
Transit did NOT give those buses to Command. Transit gave or sold those buses to the NYC Department of Transportation (DOT) because DOT requested those buses. It was DOT's choice to assign them to Command.
Keep in mind that the city's "private" carriers own VERY few of the buses they operate. The vast majority of their fleets (and all buses of any recent vintage) are actually owned by DOT, and can be recalled/reassigned/sold by DOT at any time.
Anyone know why Metro Apple Express is not in business any more? Their buses were popular on 5th Av during rush hour. Also, there was an express bus service from Nassau County, JT Poole-a-Ride back in the 90s. The bus would come down Hempstead Ave from Nassau every morning. The bus was a ex NJT Flxible in a plain white livery, but you still could see the NJT stripes. Are they still in business?
All the old BusTalk posts are now available in the archives. See the link at the top of the index page.
Enjoy!
Dave
That let's up!!
Would it be possible to implement a searchable database of archived messages? Or at least the option of viewing the archives by date?
You can already limit your search by poster, subject, or date. Click on the link at the top to change your display options.
This trip has been in my mind for some time. Those that met me at the busfest know i pland to do this. The trip is scheduled for Friday,July 13,2001.(friday the 13th!!). I plan to either take the train to Jamaica and take LI bus from there or take NYC Subway to Jamaica and take the bus. My trip is for the N22 or N24 to N79. I plan to check out HART and Suffolk Buses. Any way i can get inside the HART garage, i would love a opportunity. Check my post on 7/13 or 7/14 to see the trip.
The Hart Garage is very small. I think their fleet is only 15-20 vehicles. It is located at 2nd Street and Lenox Road. There are two routes (the number escapes me) that would drop you about 3 blocks from the garage. One is labeled "Oakwood Road Loop" and the other is "Depot Road Loop". These are the same route but one "Oakwood" runs clockwise while "Depot" runs counter-clock wise.
Check the schedules but I think the "Depot" bus will arrive at the stop first. You could get off at the LIRR Huntington Station Stop, which is on the south side of the station. Walk east through the parking lot and commuter garage. When you come to the stop sign, that is Lenox road and the first building on the far right corner is the back of the garage. Continue past the building and the courtyard is the entrance to both buildings. The entrance to the offices (which are above building # 2) is on the east end of the second building.
Instead of getting off at the Station, you could remain on the bus until he comes to Lenox and Pulaski Roads. Get off, walk north about four blocks to dead end. The back of the first building is on your right side.
Note that all Hart buses (except commuter runs) leave the termainal at :00 and complete their runs at :50.
I think you should have the Hart garage be your last stop and then you could walk to the Huntington RR station for your return trip home.
I would love to meet you Simon but I have an all day appointment this Friday, so you are on your own.
You could e-mail Trevor to ask any questions as he was there several months ago. He was not overly impressed because it is a very small operation.
i plan to be buy the HART garages around 3 or so. The last time i was there was way back in 1995-the whole trip took about 2 1/2 hours to get from Jamaica to Huntington. Cant wait to go.
I was at Westechester Av and White Plains Road and saw RTS on the Bx36 with a new paint job and the rear numbers at the lower left corner. Whats the deal with this??
Bx36#9681Mike
This sounds like the same thing with the Bronx GMC RTSs, where the numbers, if I remember correctly, in the 4000s, were on the lower left side. normally where the MTA New York City Bus sign would go.
Maybe the TA is going back to the old way. Personally, I like them better in the center on the sheet of metal, although they can sometimes fall off.
I remember the 1700's, 2300's and especially the 3500's with the same thing.
Ray
I remember when NYCT first got the RTS buses, the number was originally in the lower left corner. In the later years, it was moved underneath the rear markers. Maybe they moved it back for cosmetic or visibility reasons.
1.how many mci will New Jersery get?
2.what of engine does the mci spot?
1) 1,256 On order with a option to take the order up to 1,400
2) They "SPORT" Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC IV @ 370/430 Horsepower
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Isn't that one of the largest orders place it transit history!!?
It is "THE" largest!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Hi
I am working on Bus Route Materials for the Academy Operations ---Rutgers
Should be avaialable by Mid August---
Hey Steve, if you come across any old Rutgers bus info, photos, I'd be interested...
Thanks,
Dave
I will see what i can do for you
I have established some good connections at Academy ..Perth Amboy and Hoboken
Steve
From NJT's web site:
Middlesex County NJ has new bus route numbers. They are using 801-805 for the Mterop[ark Loop services. All others are renumbered to 8xx where xx is the old number (Ex: M10 would be 810).
Note to FDNY: no change in routing.
http://community-1.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT/
see it,,please,,i posted this material 2 weeks ago ,and various other changes
Dave has been kind enough to post pictures taken by me and Trevor at last Wednesday's BusFest 2001. To see them, go to "More Bus Pages" at the top of the Index page, and then find "BusFest 2001". Enjoy!
Thank you for your generosity from someone who missed Bus Fest 2001. P-O'ed that I missed the Futurliner. But it's a great excuse to go up to Springfield this fall to see a friend's son play football.
thank you from utah
FINALLY! I've been waiting for the photos.
I just looked up the Flxible production list at omot.org and found more info on the cancelled NYC Flxible order of 1996. It seems that 50 were on order (to be numbered 1900-1949) but were not fulfilled as Flxible had closed by that time; however, it also shows that coaches 1900-1903 of the order entered the assembly process but were not completed of delivered.
Does anyone know the whereabouts of these four stillborn Flxes and their final fate? I'd love to know what happened to them....
-F.
Well, that's why NYC has 631-680 Orions. - They replaced them. Would have wanted to see them too.
Me too; the Flxes would have looked a LOT better. Too bad they had to shut down operations in the middle of the order; that really blows.
-F.
I had asked Trevor that same question a few months ago also about what happened to those 4 Flxibles that were built. They were without a doubt the very last Flxibles. Trevor didn't know the answer and if he doesn't know, then I doubt you will find anyone with a correct answer.
BIG AL
Trevor, do you have any new info on this order? Please let us know what's up with them and if they are still around.
-F.
The 4 Flxible METRO-E Model 40102-6D buses that did get built out of the 50 order (1900-1903) ended up at Detroit Diesel's main headquaters. These four puppies are used for engine demos and such, one was turned into a CNG Demo, one is a Hybrid demo with a GM/Allison Hybrid Drive in it (However I heard that it may be getting a BAE Hybrid Drive {ex Lockheed Marting} in it), the are standard diesels.
I guess that if you can get into the Detroit Diesel Main Headquarters, you have a shot at seeing these beauties, they are in TA standard setup!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Sorry I meant Model 40102-4D not 6D!
T.Lo
What is a BAE hybrid drive? Here in the Town of Huntington there used to be an electronics / defense contractor company called HAZELTINE CORP., after several sales they are now known as BAE Systems ( a British Company ). Wonder if there is any relationship ?
Why didn't the TA take the buses?
That's a good question. Perhaps because four buses would have been harder to get parts for than four hundred. However, it is to my understanding that they are alive and well and serve as test buses for new engines at Detroit Diesel; they are even in the NYCTA colors.
-F.
I have seen at least three of the four buses in question live and in person. Of these, no NYC markings are on the exterior. I think Trevor was refering to the interior specs. Detroit Diesel has repainted these buses in schemes to advertise various engines.
Oh, I see; how are the buses painted now? Do they still have the black around the windows?
-F.
BAE? Could be BAe-British Aerospace
I knew if anyone could solve this mystery, it would be Trevor. Now, who's going down there to snap some pictures?
BIG AL
That's a good question. Where is Detroit Diesel located these days? I'd love to be able to tour the place and see those 1996 Flxes.
-F.
I have heard that these buses make regular appearances at Atlantic Detroit Diesel, which I believe is in Lodi, NJ. I have spotted these buses at the main Detroit Diesel manufacturing plant, on the northwest corner of Telegraph Road and Plymouth Road in the city of Detroit, right on the border of Redford Township. They don't call it Detroit Diesel for nothing!
Wow...that's neat! I'd love to see these things. If anyone is in the Detroit area, try to get some photos if you can!
-F.
Al, The TA cancelled the order and had the 4 buses returned because Flxible filed for Bankruptcy and was going out of business.
Thank You
They were returned? Then that means they were built and sent? What became of them afterwards?
-F.
I have no idea what happened to the buses. If a company is in bankruptcy and is being liquidated my GUESS AND ITS ONLY A GUESS was that the buses were sold very cheaply.
The Bankruptcy filing will make the contract void and that is how the TA got out of the order
Thank You
I'd love to find out whatever happened to them; if anyone out there knows the whereabouts of the four NYCTA 1996 Flxes, please let me know. Thanks to all!
-F.
[The Bankruptcy filing will make the contract void and that is how the TA got out of the order]
Technically, Flxible's bankruptcy filing would allow its bankruptcy trustee to cancel the contract as an "executory contract". It would not give the TA the right to get out. I suspect Flxible/its trustee opted to void the contract rather than have to build the 50 buses.
What a shame too. I'd have LOVED to see those beautiful final Flxes cruising the streets of NYC! Oh well.
-F.
Incomplete vehicles are usually disassembled and parted out. Universal Coach Parts (now MCI Parts & Service), who won the OEM parts and service business in bankruptcy auction, probably took whatever incomplete units were on the line, broke them down, and used them as parts stock. Baltimore MTA had to take legal action to get their completed Flxibles from the property, since technically, there was no "Flxible Corporation" to deliver them.
No kidding! So the 1996 MTA order was finished after all? I didn't realize Baltimore actually received them....that's great! I always thought the 1995s were the last ones they received.
-F.
It wasn't completed. From the info I have, Baltimore was able to get 27 of the 50 buses they ordered.
Oh? So 27 of the 1996 models made it? Or were they 95s? Let me know as I would like to find out; thanks!
-F.
They were "officially" produced in May of 1996. Flxible ceased operation in June, but these and other orders were sitting in the delivery lot until the bankruptcy court released them.
Flx was a victim of two things during this period of time:
- the government shutdowns prevented TAs from paying for ordered coaches
- General Automotive, Flxible's parent, siphoned all the profits, not leaving Flx any money for R&D, slow periods, or even payroll if there was no revenue.
It was also the lack of government money that kept other companies from keeping Flxible afloat by buying the company and the design. Nova had a steady influx of Canadian orders at this time, as well as the frequent orders from NYC and Boston, but they too required a bailout in the form of Volvo/Prevost.
Currently MCI is the proud owner of the Flxible Parts Department, AND THE DESIGN MOLDS!
MCI CAN reproduce the Flxible METRO at its wishes, however with the MCI D Series Cruiser the latest craze as a Transit bus, MCI is holding off on the thought of reproducing the METRO. It is VERY possible that once the D Series craze dies down that MCI will consider the METRO for reproduction. I will make a few calls to some people in sales I know at MCI and see what the dillio is!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Man, I hope they do reintroduce the Metro; that would be great. Then you KNOW WMATA would be all over them!
-F.
That really sucks. If only someone could have helped; I didn't realize the gonvernment shutdown entered into it. It's good to know the buses were actually made though. What other buses were made at that time that sat in the delivery lot?
-F.
eBay Item #s 1165746234 (Queens) and 1165743784 (Bronx); closing July 15.
Yesterday, and today, the Q17 had a couple of 9200 coaches running again. Now, they may be assigned to the Q17 as a last resort, meaning if there are no other available local buses in the yard to be given out, then the operator can be assigned a 9200. Right now, with the shuttle bus service, Jamaica depot is very short on buses and does not have enough for the evening rush hour. Many bus operators are left standing around in the yard waiting for a bus to pull out. I also pulled out 10 minutes late today and yesterday due to the shortage. However, if there are available buses, then the Q17 will only be assigned the usual locals.
BIG AL
hey big al, i was there early this morning & i have run #18 on Q5. i notice in the yard that there are no buses this morning & around 10am there are more buses in the yard.
Peace
David Justiniano
BTW i saw few 92xx running on LIRR Shuttle line.
Peace
David Justiniano
At Fresh Pond,3918 3921 4145 and my 4088 are in storage. Maybe they can send those over.
I was thinking about posting this little tidbit, since yesterday morning and evening I saw quaite a few 9200 soft seaters on the Q17. I almost had to do a double take when I saw 9251 & 9280 on the 17.
For you QV fans, the Suburban Orions are all over the place now, having been recently spotted on the Q2, Q30, Q43, Q46 & Q88 as well as the usual suspects of the Q75 & Q79.
I was just watching the Late Show with David Letterman, and they had a little special where they had this man proove that he could be able to pull a bus behind him. It was a NYCT Bus. The shape that the bus was in, I think that the bus just came out of a storage yard or is about to go to a storage yard. Front MTA decal was not there, and not on the side either. I could barely make out the number it looked like 3908 or 3928.
Jay D.
That's too funny! Did anyone get this on tape?
-F.
On monday while i was working at QV & saw few scrap buses on the yard are 3982, 7026, 3 other buses that have no # on it also on the road saw #1767, #1751, #1773, #1851, #3824, #3807 & few 92xx express running on LIRR Shuttle line. Today at Jamaica Depot saw few scrap buses inside the depot & didn't have the number on it also i was looking for GM #1059 & couldn't find it. Saw #4214, #4218, #4570 broke down on Merrick Blvd, #4127 & i rode #8939 run #18 on Q5.
Peace
David Justiniano
BTW: Now im using a new S/N is NYCT MaBSTOA TCO@AOL.COM
I took a good look around the inside of the depot and found that buses 4348 and trouble plagued 4562 have been scrapped along now with 4586. I didn't notice 4348 and 4562 because they are kind of hidden in the back but became suspicious when I read your post. They must have been scrapped very recently. 4348 & 4562 were garbage anyway and will not be missed by anyone. 4586 was a good bus but I guess the engine went bad. All decals and logos, fareboxes and radios have been removed from all 3 buses now, along with various parts from all.
BIG AL
I was wondering if the 4500 series buses were still at JD. Did you happen to see 4567 in revenue service lately?
4567 is the bus with different side windows, right? It's still around.
It was the only RTS I knew where you could open all the windows. They were weird looking, but I liked them better. Glad to know she's still around.
Yeah, the first time I saw it was a very late night in downtown Flushing just a couple of months ago. My doubletake almost made me miss my semi-hourly Q44; fortunatley, there was someone else with me who was paying attention :).
Well this one had all windows, while RTS 1480 I believe while in SI back in the late 90s - HAD NO OPENING WINDOWS.
[RTS 1480 I believe while in SI back in the late 90s - HAD NO OPENING WINDOWS.]
Of course none of the 1981 RTS's had any opening windows at all at the time of delivery. I believe the two sliding windows on each side were added sometime after subsequent delivery of the 1982 RTS's, which did come with sliding windows. MSBA fans will remember that the original order of 125 Grumman buses came with no sliding windows.
Some of the 1981's never got opening windows.
Funny that you asked that question. I just had 4567 on Wednesday, 7/11. Personally, this really isn't a good bus, all though it doesn't rank among the worst either. It's slow and very rattley. This bus was an experiment done a long time ago to see how these type of windows would hold up. Every window was converted to the type you guys are seeing. However, transit felt they were too expensive and scrapped the plan for possibly retrofitting more buses with these windows.
About 3 Halloweens ago, 4567 was operating on the Q5 and kids threw rocks at her at 107th ave and Merrick blvd, breaking 2 of the windows, #s 3 & 4, on the right side, which required replacement with the standard windows. Before that, both rear windows were destroyed by school kids when the bus was doing school trippers. Again regular windows were put in. Some where along the line a 5th window got broken by vandals. So now, 6 windows are still the special type and 5 are the standard type. I know you guys won't agree with me, but I think the bus looks sloppy now and should just have all the windows replaced with the standard ones since transit will not repair the specialty windows anymore. Whenever I have this bus I always hear the people saying," Oh, this is that bus with the ugly windows!". Personally, I think those windows look rather unattractive also from the inside. But transit will probably keep them since they are not spending big bucks on this bus anymore since she is finishing out her career.
BIG AL
While thumbing through a 1949 annual report from the NYC Board of Transportation (TA predecessor - MABSTOA still FACO at this time), i noted a few interesting tidbits.
The following bus facilities were being constructed:
ENY- cost $10.5 million; Flatbush - $1.9 Million; Ulmer park - $1.8 million; Flushing - $2.1 million; Castleton - $1.9 Million; an addition to Jamaica - $385,000
1725 new buses costing $29.8 million dollars were delivered
200 new trolly coaches $3.7 million
760 new subway cars at $60 million
extending F train from 169 st to 179 Street - $9.4 million
RATES OF PAY
There were a total of 35,421 employees
there were 48, 45, and 44 hour work weeks
wages ranged from $1.14 to $1.69!!!!!!!
the majority of employees seemed to be making $1.59 an hour making for respective weekly incomes of $76.32, $71.55 and $69.96 and yearly incomes of $3,981, $3,735 and $3,651.
The top pay of $1.69 garnered an annual income of $4,232 on a 48 hour week - 119 employees were paid this rate
In the midst of Academy Bus pulling it's service out of Staten Island, service on the X17 and X19 has been increased at the expense of the riders of the X16 and the X18 in Staten Island. 26 needed MCI coaches were yanked from Castleton Depot and reassigned to Yukon Depot to facilitate this extra South Shore service. In return, what does Castleton get??? 26 Orion V Suburban crap boxes from storage in Brooklyn and other places. These pieces of junk are an uncomfortable ride. These buses can barely make it over the Verrazzano Bridge in the morning and evening, very uncomfortable for the bus driver, and a nuisance in the Battery Tunnel (quite a few of them need some alignment work), and aren't even repowered.
My main case in point... why give us Orions when Brooklyn has some extra NOVA RTS Suburbans either sitting there or in service on local routes. Why assign Orions to two routes that have high ridership in the morning and evening. And what do we gotta do to get rid of the crap boxes.
Any input on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
X18/X15 Rider
X18- #172
X16- #163
X16- #160
I know as I have seen the plethora of Orions returning to the X18/16/20.
Well I know that some Orions and believe it or not GMC RTSs 3800s are at Edgewater. Maybe, the RTSs will be coming back.
Also, UP has 99 Expresses they need for the runs. They have 122 Express coaches, and with 12% reserve/spare fleet, they have a need for 112, an extra 10 buses.
JG has 23 Novas - should give them TRANSIT storages - reactivate any of the 1300s-4500s in storage for replacement. Send the Novas back to SI.
Flatbush - has the 4800s Expresses in local service - can be used here.
Just the TA management.
Someone ought to do us QV riders a favor and take back the Orion Suburbans (611-630) that were "our gift from SI". Now that they've been properly fixed, SI can use them again.
As far as RTS's go....don't you think the seating issue would quickly become a problem for the "overburdened SI routes"? The RTS's will seat 39. An Orion can seat 41-42. The older 17-1800 & 3800 RTS suburbans also seat 42. I've always maintained that if capacity was such an issue, then why not look into the New Flyer DHF60 with suburban seating ala NJT.
DAMN STRIZAIGHT!
T.Lo
they also have Orion 600 coach series running this shuttle. I remember the other day i had to take the shuttle, and i saw 3 buses at the Queens Village station. Everyone there was like which one is the Shuttle. I saw a Jamaica Depot bus, so i assumed that was the shuttle, since Jamaica buses don't really show up in that area. However, on the way to Jamaica, I have seen Orions from stengel, 4900's from Queens Village, some Orion 600 series from Queens Village as well, and some 8900's from Jamaica. I just wonder if people understand the Luminators what they mean......
it says LIRR SHUTTLE
VIA HSF AND HOLLIS
some lady even asked me what is HSF? I was like Hillside Facility for Railroad employees only.
When I worked that shuttle a few weeks ago (the initial week), they had offered to us placards to affix to the window which indicated the shuttle route and terminal. I don't know if they still use them, as I haven't worked it in some time now.
Can someone please tell me where I can find Crosstown Storage/Paint Shop. (Address)
Manhattan Av Box st,Commercial St
Just verify this - right by the border of Bklyn and Queens, near the water - west of Pulaski Bridge
yes
The correct address is 65 Commercial Street, Brooklyn. This is one block west of Manhattan Avenue and Box Street. The directions previously given are correct.
Take the B43 to the last stop. It is right across the street.
B43#8554Mike
If anyone could - also need address of College Point Storage Yard.
I think it's 123-15 28th Avenue (or something like that; I passed by the depot and rode the Orion V CNGs that have the address on them, and never made note of it), College Point, NY 11354. You can look on the Orion V CNGs or go past the depot itself ands find out.
CWalNYC
Orion_V_CNG_#479
College Point Storage yard 40-22 college point blvd at 40 road
visible from northbound van wyck on the right side just south of roosevelt avenue bridge.
dont bother though theres nothing much there except for some of those access-a-ride mini buses.
There are only three transit buses at College Point now: RTS #2679, "chopped" GM New Look #8602 (ex-Mobile Surface Command bus), and another New Look, maybe a Flx. Several RTSes, including 1755, were there until taking a ride to Doremus Ave in Newark a week or two ago.
I have noticed that on QSC Classics, the mirrors are attached to the front door. Why is this? Command doesn't do this.
QSC has been using these type of mirrors since the late 80's. NYCTA and Bee Line used to use them on their new look buses.
Wayne
1. How much is a Zone4 Weekly Pass cost?
2. Do the passes start sale every Wednesday until when?
A Weekly Zone 4 TrailPass costs $39.50; weekly sales run from the previous Wednesday through the Tuesday the pass is effective.
Thanks. I was not too shure if there where still at $34.50.
I saw this bus on the Q32 on Monday evening at 47 St and Queens Blvd. Had Pier stickers on it. Came from 126 St I assume but for what in return-more 8200s?
Q32#8489Gary
Can anyone verify that #8489 was, indeed, in 126? I thought that those that arrived at Hudson Pier and 126, respectively, have remained at their location. P.S. Some 8400 and 8500's have seen brief service in ENY, before going to Manhattan Division.
Saw 8489 on the M34 today while on 34th and 7th. Also saw 8490 on the Q32 and 8479 have been repowered.
M34#8489Mike
Q32#8490Mike
M6#8479Mike
[Can anyone verify that #8489 was, indeed, in 126?]
Both the TransitTalk and UTC rosters list 8489 as at 126th Street. Sounds like enough evidence to me!
I had the priviledge of riding on this bus yesterday on the Q46. It was repowered. Sounded like a Nova but what stooped me was that the rear seats were raised. I assume it's for the new engine compartment.
Very fast bus is 8386-was its 1st day back from Zerega but I bet that it won't go over 42mph on the Expwy. Her sister 8375 was on the Q30 or Q31 wasn't sure saw it from driver's side going towards Jamaica when I was at Utopia and Union waiting for the light. Still no number board in the rear on 8375. 8386 has a number board.
Q46#8386Gary
Q30#8375Gary
For what it's worth, #8386 is already on the BO line awaiting maintenance.
TransiTALK is throwing its 2nd Annual Bus & Subway Fan Trip, All are welcomed.
Right now we are working on a plan to visit either the Jackie Gleason or Manhattanville Bus Depot's for a Lesson on Alternative Fuel Technology and how Alternative Fuel Depots operate. Other part of the trip will include photo stops along the Broadway Local (1) Train and a Lunch stop.
All interested may e-mail us at tlogan@transitalk.com for details or to RSVP.
A Full Itinerary will be available and post on the nycsubway.org field trip page within a week or so.
Regards
Trevor Logan aka T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Sounds cool, T-Lo; give us more details as it progresses.
-F.
I can't make it on Saturday. Don't reschedule it just for me, but I just might be able to join you if it were moved to Sunday (or possibly some other day of the week).
I doubt I can move it to Sunday, as per availability on the garages picked! If anything should change I will make it known!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Thanks. As I said, don't make any changes just for me -- but let us know if the date does change.
sounds cool
Event Calendar displays NYC Transit Family Day on August 11th, 2001 at Riverbamk State Park.
Yeah but how many of us NON TA employees are gonna attend, and with no buses there, I doubt many "fans" will show.
We'll see! I'm working my trip around what the TA can provide for us!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Family Day.......
Well I certainly will not attend NYCT's "Family Fun Day". I only posted this to let you know that there is an event scheduled for the same date. While true, busfans most probably won't be at the event, there may be those employees who have forgotten the date, with respect to the depot personel helping you.
Anyone still have any of these around?
Anybody have no idea what that was?
I have a case load of some from the Ulmer Park Routes of my own collection!!!!!!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Have a few of those old bus transfers myself. There were also Add-a-rides, for an extra quarter I believe, that were in use for a while as well.
I have a few, but none of that particular design.
Anyone have any from NYCDOT routes?
-Hank
I got a full set of never used transfers for Aug. 24 1997, from Ulmer Park Depot. I went though a pile of boxes that were never open. I picked this date out becouse was my wedding day.
Robert
QSC still issues these type of Transfers to our Express customers who want to transfer between our Express buses in Queens, but want to save the MC Transfer for a subway ride in Manhattan to complete their trip.
Mr t__:^)
So QSC allows a free transfer between two express buses plus an additional transfer to a local bus or subway? That's generous. (Or is it just an artifact of the express bus system?)
I've got a "transfer scrapbook" from various Brooklyn routes dating back to the early 70's. My dad was a NYCTA bus driver, and I always took fresh transfers from him :-)
Matter of fact, I haven't seen that thing in years. There are old transfers, the newer style you posted, the "Add-A-Ride" tickets, 3 versions and colors of block tickets, and a few GO tickets all glued to a photo album I began when I was just about 6 years old, which makes my first entries 1973.
If I find that, I'll scan a few oldies for you all. Come to think of it, it's most likely still in a closet at Moms!
I have this type from various TA/OA routes, as well as old Add-A-Ride and NYCTA Transfers. Now I just need to go to my parent's house and search through my old room for them.
Wayne
Thanks for posting the transfer jpeg. I haven't been on a NYCT bus for so long I forgot what they look like. I'm more used to seeing ST tranfers, but at least with the TA, they're free. Out here, they cost 25 cents.
I would like to know how many fare zones for the following lines.
99 from Norristown to King Manor Station.
100 from King Manor to Wynnewood Rd.
101 from Lansdowne to Springfield Mall.
110,111 from Springfield Mall to 69 St.
Thanks.
Any body know? Do you know ctrabs74?
I would like to know how many fare zones for the following lines.
99 from Norristown to King Manor Station.
One zone ($2.00)
100 from King Manor to Wynnewood Rd.
I think it's three zones ($3.00), but don't hold me to that one.
101 from Lansdowne to Springfield Mall.
110,111 from Springfield Mall to 69 St.
On the 101, 109, 110, and 111, all travel to Springfield Mall is considered a one zone ride, regardless of whether you get on at 69 St, Lansdowne Av (101), Lansdowne Borough (109) or Media (101, 110).
Thanks. as for the 100 part. I am going to ask SEPTA that Question.
Tonight it starts at Jay Street at 6 PM ... "A" train to Far Roickaway to catch LI Bus N33 to Long Beach. Looks like it will be a good night for some mass transit fun.
Mr t__:^)
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/jersey/ledger/13cbe75.html
NJT will use additional funds provided by the state to pay OT, extra fuel, and new drivers to increase the service on overcrowded bus routes. Fares will remain unchanged for the 11th straight year under the new budget adopted yesterday.
Hey Trevor, stay tuned for the September driver scheduling - you might be working a lot!
If I'm lucky I won't be around that long to see it as I'm attempting to make a move from New Jersey Transit to Liberty Lines/Bee Line.
Although I'm making this move, My internal NJT contacts will not change and I will be able to keep abreast of NJT issues!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Is any of the extra bus service going to be in Bergen County? My parents are thinking of moving there. And after checking the schedules for the transit and commuter buses I got heart failure at the thought of trying to get from there back into the city.
I wouldn't be surprised if most of the increases went towards the Port Authority based routes which are the most crowded, however there are a few lines in South Jersey (400, 403, 404) which could use a few more runs here and there.
If they DON'T increase 166 service, there will be people in Tenafly and Englewood who are going to set fire to something...
AND the #166 ALREADY runs VERY frequent rush hour service (literally a bus every couple minutes or so) and every 15-20 minutes off peak and weekends. In addition, much of the #166 route is also covered by the Red and Tan #20.
Then there's the #165, quite similar to the #166 with the level of service and also complemented with Red and Tan #11A.
Is NJ Transit considering operating 24-hour service on the #165 or 166? They do that with the #128, 139, 159, 190 and some others.
The problems with the 166 are:
- they fill up in Dumont and Bergenfield and become SRO
- buses continue through Leonia and PalPark when full before getting on the Turnpike, when they probably could/should get on in Englewood
What the 166 needs is additional service in the morning rush so that people are not left at the curb. The 167 was able to address this by splitting runs at Teaneck Armory. Buses starting in Dumont make their last pickup at the Armory and run non-stop, then a separate bus begins empty and picks up in Teaneck.
The better match for the 166 is Red & Tan 14T.
According to the schedule I have (January 6, 2001), the #166 does split it's service in Englewood during the morning rush the same way the #167 does;
#166 trips between Bergenfield and Englewood then express to NYC
#166 trips between Englewood and Palisades Park then express to NYC
The only problem is trips originating in Cresskill are local all the way down thru Weehawken, and those run every 30 minutes.
The problem with the 166 split is, the trips that begin in Englewood have missed the whole town. Those trips that begin at Van Nostrand Ave are just blocks from the Leonia border. This means people looking to board in Englewood (hospital area, or downtown Englewood) have to deal with packed buses from Dumont. If that split was moved up to Englewood hospital, then almost all Englewood residents would be able to get a seat in the morning.
It's that bad? My dad's friend told me that there were buses throughout the area that head back into the city, on both Teaneck Rd. and Queen Anne Rd., as well as other streets.
Is it a GWB vs. PABT thing out there that leaves one set of routes packed, or is it something else?
The Teaneck Road/Queen Anne Road service is the 167, and that gets served by the Volvo artics as well as the MCIs. Unfortunately, the 166 does not get artic service.
And yes, it is a GWB vs PABT thing because NJT stupidly prioced the rides the same. For example, the 168 and 175 on Cedar Lane in Teaneck both cost $2.55 to New York, but the 168 goes to the PABT. Are you going to waste the extra $1.50 for the A train downtown by taking the 175? Similarly in Dumont and Bergenfield, the 186 to the GWB is $2.55, but the 166 and 167 are $3.25, just 70 cents more - less than half the cost of the A train.
Half of the Trippers from Meadowlands on the 166 see's Articulated Buses and the other half is provided by MCIs. While of course the Oradell Runs are all MCI with a rare METRO-D Suburban sighting from time to time.
The Articulateds mostly run the 166 in the AM. In the PM its ALL MCI.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
ww
Well, I don't have to get up early and head through Englewood like I used to years ago... but from the frequent complaints of 166 riders, they need more artics than they're getting.
I'm sure there are a lot of lines at NJT which would like to see more artics, but there are only 60 suburban artics for the entire system. Hopefully, NJT will increase the number of artics for their upcoming order.
I suspect that over the past 10+ years, both NJTransit and Rockland Coach have seen decreasing passenger numbers headed to GWBBS while passenger count on runs to PABT have increased. I'm sure there are various reasons for this, but today, a rider headed for mid-town Manhattan or anyplace south of there is not likely to consider taking a bus to GWB; he or she would automatically think only of taking a bus to PABT. I guess there aren't as many NJ or Rockland County passengers headed for parts of NYC served by GWBBS today as was the case 10+ years ago.
I know Red Apple tours operates the B110 a few years ago but does it still operate?
Ray
The B110 is currently operated by Private Transportation a la New York Airport Service.
You will find Ex Red Apple (Hoboken) & Jamaica Bus Lines Flxible 870s and Ex Upstate NY Orion 01.509s running the B110.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Does the B110 pass by Fort Hamilton Pkwy/McDonald Av and stop on Park Av/BQE with the B61? Or is the Fort Hamilton Pkwy private line a different line altogether?
CWalNYC
I think its the same line, I don't know the exact routing of the B110.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.comi
I thought that I was going nuts the other day. I saw a B110 bus running on 18th Avenue at McDonald Avenue. It was an old CDTA bus with an electronic sign that said "B110 Boro Park". For a second, I thought that my prescription on my eyeglasses expired.
For exact routing check with poster FDNY (smokiecat@webtv.?) don't know if its .tv or .net. Trying reading one of his posts and e-mail from there.
On Tuesday morning, I saw Oron V #6070 on the Bx3 line, and this morning, I saw #443 on the Bx3. Both Southbound. Is it the norm for Amsterdam operators to make southbound morning runs on that line or is it a MaBSTOA thing when a depot has less buses running? Once I saw #6103 on the Bx36 line and #6079 on the Bx42 during a snow storm last winter. I dunno what that's about.
CWalNYC
Orion_V_Bx3_#6070
Orion_V_Bx3_#443
Orion_V_Bx36_#6103
Orion_V_Bx42_#6079
[On Tuesday morning, I saw Oron V #6070 on the Bx3 line, and this morning, I saw #443 on the Bx3. Both Southbound. Is it the norm for Amsterdam operators to make southbound morning runs on that line or is it a MaBSTOA thing when a depot has less buses running? Once I saw #6103 on the Bx36 line and #6079 on the Bx42 during a snow storm last winter. I dunno what that's about.]
Yes, you were seeing normal scheduled service. Amsterdam currently operates morning extras on the Bx3 and Bx13; until recently, it also had one extra each on the Bx36 and Bx40/42.
The Chief has reported the Bus Operator exam will be held in April 2002 with applications being accepted in January. The last time the exam was given was in May 1999. There are no education or experience requirements (lol). At the time of appointment, the candidate must have a Class B Commercial Driver's License (CDL BP with Air-Brake endorsement and no restrictions). The starting pay is $16.02 an hour, increasing to $22.89 per hour after 36 months on the job.
There are 104 exams scheduled for 2002, including many other NYCTA Surface and Rapid Transit positions. Pick up a copy of "The Chief Leader" available at most newsstands.
I do have my heart set out to Be a Motorman. But being that my Dad is a Bus operator test is coming out in 2002, i might wanna take it. But i wonder would i be eligible to be a B/O once i pass? I think I could get a CDL BP with Air brake Endorsement with no restrictions, but i worry would they pick me?
Can someone email me and tell me the requirements?
VERY greatful
E JAMAICA CENTER,
for subtalk news
back to you John in the studio
I think all buses operating in nyc should have bicycle racks all year round, With these Routes crossing bridges should Be priority: B51, B39 Q32, Q60, Q101, Q102, M35, M60, Bx15, Bx33, Bx19, Bx6,Bx3, Bx11, Bx13 Bx35, Bx36, Bx12, Bx7, Bx20, S53, S79, X1-20, X31, Q21, Q53, Q35, QBx1, Q44, X32, X51, X63, X64, X68, Bx29
Many of the buses assigned to the QBx1 by Queens Surface that cross the Whitestone Bridge do have bike racks. I forget the exact numbers of the buses so equipped, but I believe they are Orion V CNG buses numbered somewhere in the 450's.
Some bridges you can across with bikes like the Triborough Bridge. I have seen it on my way to Yankee Stadium. So the M60 is off the list. You will never see a bike rack on a express bus (X1-X20, X31-X32, X51, X63-X64 and X68) What are you nuts? Who is going to ride into Manhattan via bus with their bike when they could ride the Staten Island Ferry into Manhattan. It's much easier that way and it is free. You don't expect the MTA to install bike racks and charge the usual $1.50? Also, don't expect to see this on the B51. You can hop over to the Brooklyn Bridge. City Island is too Damn small so you can scratch the Bx29. The bridge that the Bx3, Bx11, Bx13, Bx35 and Bx36 use----you don't need it because I have walked across that bridge so scratch those buses as well. The Q44 could be a possibility and the Bx7, Bx12 and Bx20 could be good as well but do not count on it. Bike racks on MTA buses look ugly.
Ray
Queens Surface has bike racks and they don't charge extra. Most busses are ugly to begin with anyway (boxes on wheels) and the addition of a bike rack is no big deal. The MTA should get with the times and put them on their busses as MANY transit agencies across the country do. So should NJTransit, for that matter.
Peace,
ANDEE
I Live In Phoenix, I have been using the bike racks since day 1 in 1990, phoenix was the first system to have bike racks on All local and express buses, also a number of dial a ride/paratransit services have racks on board their vans. there is no extra charge to travel with your bike. on a average it takes 15 - 30 seconds to load a bike. on average there are approx. 100 bikes per day loaded on buses. on a busy day I have waited 2 hours for a spot on the rack (Green Line 10 min Fq. peak). the racks cost $300 per bus. (I worked for Valley Metro Transit from 1992 - 1999)
[The MTA should get with the times and put them on their busses as MANY transit agencies across the country do. So should NJTransit, for that matter.]
I agree. Also, I've been to one of the garages in Southern NJ (Washington Township perhaps?) and saw some NJ Transit buses with bike racks. I forget whether they were used exclusively on certain routes, but recollect hearing that the plan was to add racks to additional buses.
CDTA in Albany/Troy/Schenectady/Saratoga did...why can't others?
Queens Surface has 10 buses equiped with bike racks. They operate on routes where we typically see folks show up with bikes to rack.
If there was more need we would install more.
BTW, it is a bit of a pain for the other customers, i.e. the bus is delayed while the bike is put on the rack (it's high off the ground & has to be locked down), but it's just part of the friendly service.
Mr t__:^)
The only two bridges that busses run over where bikes are not allowed are the Whitestone and Verazanno. The S53 and S79 need bike racks.
Personally I think all local busses should have bike racks.
And I think Bike Racks should go on ALL Buses. NOT on certain Routes.
by the way what is a CDL BP?
That should mean CDL class B with Passenger endorsements. That's what mine is at least.
CDL stands for Commercial Drivers License. The "P" means you are permitted to drive a vehicle carrying passengers. The "B" I believe means you are permitted to operate a vehicle over a certain weight with air brakes. It's been years since I had to remember this stuff and I forgot what the weight is. Q/V Operator-Brooklyn 67 probably would know this better.
BIG AL
Just as BIG AL says, CDL is Commercial Drivers License, the "P" is the Passenger endorsement, and the "B" is the class up to a certain weight limit, and that you passed the Air-Brake test.
Well I had a great time. I met Thurston at the eastern end of the Main street station where we boarded a 7 train. Unfortunately Howard just missed us. The ride on the 7 was local all the way and took 45 minutes to Times Square. Fortunately the Railfan window was available. The T/O was very gutsy with the timers in the Steinway tubes, we went through there pretty fast. Even though the GT's in there are far apart many T/O's are scardeycats and slow for each one to clear way ahead of it. At 42nd we just missed an R142 2 train but a 9 train came in on the local which we took to Penn station. We met up with another Metrocard collector, where they swapped some stuff.
We then took an A to Jay street, we waited out an R44 for an R38. Even with a 44 in front of us most of the way the Cranberry tubes were quick. Also there's no "cat's eye" signals for those tubes. At Jay we got off where we walked around to the Livingston street TA HQ. Nice building, we didn't get in to see the simulator though. I never been to the Fulton Mall area but it's really nice. Much more spacious and cleaner than Flushing.
In Burger King we met up with Howard and Doug, and someone else who's name escapes me. The real fun started at Jay street. Because of gapping the first R38 A train to Far Rock was PACKED. Literally a sardine can. We were lucky to squeeze on to that packed train. Crowded it may have been but the express was very fast, local stations were a blur. It emptied out alot at Bway-ENY.
The ride on the Rockaway flats was nice from the front window of the R38. Once you get on the concrete viaduct it's really like an LIRR line. Complete with LIPA subtransmission lines. There's only a few main sets of lines serving the peninsula, which could explain the frequent power outages in the area. We get to Mott in time to make the 7:20 N33 to Long Beach. Far Rockaway doesn't look like too nice of an area, but once you get into Nassau county and Atlantic Beach it looks nice. The bus we had (301) was running pretty rough even though it was one of the newer ones. And there was no A/C.
We go though Long Beach west which is pretty nice but there's alot of traffic lights. At Long Beach we get off and walk to a bar on the boardwalk where I opted to be sober (I actually never drank a beer). But I did have water, which drove me to the bathroom. I left early with Howard since he was making a 8:53pm LIRR to Valley stream, for me an 8:45pm N15 to Hempstead. I said goodbye to Howard as I walked fast into Wendy's only to find the bathroom door locked. With the LIRR station also closed I had to hold it in. Maybe if establishments let people use the restroom it would cut down on public urination. My N15 bus 310 had no A/C and left 5 minutes late. Even at that late hour it was a slow ride, the driver waited for people running after the bus and such, but sped along the way many a time. By the time I got to Hempstead I had to really go so I ran into the terminal used the restroom and just made an N40 to Mineola (also no A/C). Well I guess you really didn't need A/C tonight. Well I was just glad I got to use a restroom after holding it in for such a long ride. While waiting at Mineola I saw two old LIRR diesel engines pass by together, not towing anything. My train to Sea Cliff was only running a few minutes late, coming at 10:24pm. Made it home by 11pm, after a rather brisk 15 minute walk from the train station (normally takes 30 but I walked pretty fast).
Well I had a great time today and hope to see the pictures soon, also saw an old fashioned two aspect traffic signal in Far Rockaway.
I know the exact traffic signal you saw in Far Rockaway. It is the only one I know of that still exists with no yellow signals on it.
Also, about the T/O's being scardeycats. Maybe one day, when you get married and have other mouths to feed, you'll understand what it is like to have to play things safe in order to protect your job.
BIG AL
The above post pretty much says it all. We had gorgeous weather and spectacular views from the subway, Atlantic Beach Bridge and the Long Beach boardwalk. Unusually, the Q22 and N33's Far Rockaway starting point is in the middle of a municipal parking lot which one has to walk halfway across to a shelterless concrete island. I've seen this type of arrangement with Greyhound or Short Line in small towns upstate, but it's rare around here, except maybe at malls.
Having taken yesterday off, I did some additional bus riding before, and in coordination with the field trip:
Rose at 6:00; got a very crowded 1999 Orion Q44 over the Bridge. Local street construction forced reroutes of the Bronx-bound QBX1, obliterating the usual boarding stop at the Whitestone service road at Linden Place, so I wasn't sure where I could get it.
At Parkchester, got an 8800-series Nova on the BX14 through the huge apartment complex to Westchester/Buhre/Crosby, where there's a nice coffee shop. Passed interesting equipment convergence at Westchester Square of RTS (BX8,14,31), Orion (21) and Artic (4,40/42). After breakfast, got a 9400-series Nova on the BX8's nice, scenic waterfront run through Eastchester Bay, Edgewater Park and Locust Point. The narrow, quiet streets lined with one-family houses, and spectacular views of City Island and Great Neck bely everything people associate with the Bronx.
Walked from the last stop in the shadow of the Throgs Neck Bridge back to the Layton Avenue overpass to catch another 9400 on the BX8 (a route which for years seemed to carry only 8000s) back to Buhre, then walked up Westchester Avenue to the Pelham Bay terminal. Massive street reconstruction made the normally confusing traffic patterns even more so.
Just missed a QBX1 back to Queens, so took a '6' down to Parkchester and got downstairs in time to see TWO Queens-bound 44s departing. Even then, it only took a couple of minutes for another one to come. This one was a short-turn to Flushing only, so was probably less crowded as a result. Construction on a few ramps forced a detour onto Castle Hill Avenue and Bruckner Boulevard, which was the 44's regular routing until about ten years ago.
Got off at Union & Bayside around 9:30, went to my garage, drove to North Woodmere Park and swam till about 12:00. Drove to Valley Stream and actually found a block midway between the LIRR station and Merrick Road WITHOUT parking restrictions! I wanted to leave the car somewhere where I could reach easily from Long Beach that evening- figured legal parking in Long Beach midday would be very limited.
Ate Chinese, dried my suit and towel at a laundromat, and got a Jamaica-bound 100-series N4 at Merrick & Franklin. The A/C was apparently off, witness the many open windows. The anticipated fast run in Queens was severely damaged by passengers getting off at virtually every stop after Springfield Boulevard. Many local JAM-based TA Merrick corridor buses zoomed right past us. We had a scare at Linden Boulevard when the bus stood still for several seconds while the engine labored loudly. Luckily, we remained in service, although slowly, to Archer terminal.
Immediately got Orion 295 on the Q44 'Limited' to Flushing. It must have been the first in a while, because there were huge crowds at all the major transfer points. By the LIE we were packed. The Limited stops along Main Street are so frequent it barely seems worthwhile. We did get some decent speed on the new routing along Queens Boulevard and lower Main Street. I was reading the paper most of the way so didn't notice if any other 44s or 20A/Bs passed us.
Later, while at the Burger King on Fulton Street, we noticed an express 9200 Nova on the B51 pass by. What RTS Gleason has are older, 8500 models. Except for Flyers on the B65, downtown Brooklyn is solid RTS, with some very old 4000 series on the B26, 38 and 52 out of FP.
Alongside the trestle, I noticed a GBS storage yard in Arverne somewhere in the Beach 50s that held about fifteen old RTS (roll signs) and Orions. Thurston advised me that Green has an additional depot in the Rockaways; this makes sense in that B35s don't have to make the long trip from the main garage in Springfield Gardens all the way to Rockaway Park.
The N33 was the newest model LI Bus has (silver metal studding behind the seats), in the 300 series. The A/C was not on, and the bus didn't move particularly fast on some clear stretches along Seagirt Boulevard, over the Atlantic Bridge and through Atlantic Beach. Some peculiar straining noises could frequently be heard.
At the Long Beach transit center, some LB buses rested. We didn't ride one, but I noticed the seats, while shaped just like virtually all others, had thick plastic or leather padding. The only local bus I can recall riding with this luxury was in Philadelphia.
Now that I think about it, for all those buses I rode yesterday, not one of them was a 'private'.
As most of you know I'm a railfan who just happens to work for a bus company, so it was quite interesting to have the majority in this group of 5 to be busfans (3 to 2).
It was a great time and we enjoyed each other's company, e.g. on the N33 we took over the rear of the bus & at Long Beach we sat at a table where a live band was tuning up & shared some liquid refreshment.
P.S. missed out ? send me a e-mail, if I get at least 1/2 dozen folks who are serious about going I'll be happy to do it agin in August.
P.P.S. Three of us took photos, so look for a "official" report in a couple of weeks in the "Field Trip" section of this site.
Mr t__:^)
"P.S. missed out ? send me a e-mail, if I get at least 1/2 dozen folks who are serious about going I'll be happy to do it agin in August."
When in August you going to do it? Can you do it on the week of August 5 to August 12? And are they any City of Long Beach Bus photos in there too?
When ... depends on the week the group wants & weather
I took two photos of the front of a City of Long Beach bus.
Mr t__:^)
BTW, the BMTman has been talking to SubTalker Gary about a Sunday. The trip would start at Jay Street or Broadway Junction.
The advantage of a Sunday is it leaves more time for stopping along the line to check out points of interest.
Mr t__:^)
Not to mention more time for bumming out on the boardwalk! :D
Oh yes, we all know what you'll find there in greater numbers during a Sunday vs. a week-day evening ... hint not sand flees.
Mr t__:^)
Yup LI Buses really crawl through Queens sometimes. There's lots of dropoffs on the N20/21 too. Sometime I wish they'd cut back on the stops. I think they shouldn't be less than 10 city blocks or 1/2 mile in Queens. Let em walk.
Even going back late at night on the N15, we'd get up some good speed only to slow down for more stops, especially on Long Beach Road, even right by the terminal in Hempstead people will ride it just for a few blocks. The drivers do go pretty fast at night on LI Bus.
As far as the "laboring" way the LI Buses run, it's all atributable to poor maintainance due to the Nassau county budget crisis.
can anybody explain the q20a/b route to me I have never heard of it before.
The Q-20 A/B route provides the local service when the Q-44 Limited Stop service operates. Both routes operate via the same streets between 20th Ave/Parsons Blvd and 165th Street/Archer Ave with the Q-20 making all stops and the Q-44 making limited stops(The Q-44 makes all stops from 20th Ave/Parsons Blvd to the Bronx Zoo)
The Q-20 has 2 branches. One via 14th Avenue(Q-20A) which is the original route and via 20th Avenue(Q-20B) which operates via 20th Avenue. The Q-20A operates weekdays only and the Q-20B operates daily,
The Q-20 terminals are 14th Ave/College Point Blvd and 165th St/Archer Ave.
When operators pick this route both lines are considered one table which I believe is called the Q44/Q20.
The original Q-20 which once was called the Q-44FS opereted between 14th Ave/College Point Blvd and Main Street Station. Prior to the September 1995 service cutbacks the route operated daily. After Sepetmber 1995 to the creation of the current service it operated weekdays only.
Hope this helps you
Thank You
Yesterday I saw bus #6360 on the M5 line, this RTS appeared new and had what appeared to be CNG tanks on the roof. I follwed the bus but did not see the the decal that wolud ID the bus as CNG, done anyone have anymore info on this bus?
I have not seen this bus, but I believe it is a hybrid diesel-electric not unlike the Orions 6350-6359 which have been around for a while now and which I see regularly
This is the first of a five RTS order for RTS hybrids. RTS hopes to have another contract made with the TA before the TA decides to stop ordering their buses. Five have been ordered, going to 6364, but they may end up making it a 150 bus order going to 6509
These will be used exclusively in Maanhattanville.
but isn't the requirement to hold a clean license for 3 years
Clean is actually like no more than 4 points in 3 years
For those concerned:
cellspacing="1">
Convention Delegate Election
Results
Local Division 1056, Queens NYC, NYCTA, July 10, 2001
DELEGATE
QV
JA
CS
RT
TOT
Delegate #1 Maurice Lewis defeats Justin
Fleischmann.
Justin Fleischmann
128
7
92
3
230
Maurice Lewis
123
166
153
42
484
Delegate #2 Ed Figueroa defeats William Hamilton and James Jacobs.
Ed Figueroa
10
92
189
6
297
William Hamilton
51
40
41
34
166
James Jacobs
192
34
26
3
255
Delegate #3 Tony Breaux defeats Richard Boles.
Richard Boles
174
14
90
24
302
Tony Breaux
68
160
138
19
385
Alternate
Delegate Joseph Nicoletti defeats Tom
Tsounis.
Joseph Nicoletti
130
120
185
29
464
Tom Tsounis
98
34
56
3
191
Queens
Village Transportation Ronald Harvin defeats Melvin Harris.
Melvin Harris
84
84
Ronald Harvin
120
120
Abbreviation Key:
QV = Queens Village Depot.
JA = Jamaica Depot.
CS = Casey Stengel Depot.
RT = All Participating Retirees.
TOT = Vote Totals.
Of roughly 1700 members, only 718 thought this election
important.
718 of your Brothers and Sisters decided your future.
Saw again this morning another UP MCI, with the mirror smashed on the driver's side, and the window cracked. 2001 MCI 2198.
Have not seen a SI MCI do this. What's up?
Maybe the drivers should do what one of the guys on the X15 does, and that is before the tunnel entrance, pull the mirror flush against the side of the bus while in the reverse flow traffic tube, and then push it back while exiting the tunnel.
Those mirrors on MCI buses don't move all that easily. I've known a few drivers that have had neck/shoulder injuries that were sustained while reaching out the small window on the MCI bus trying to adjust a mirror.
If you really knew anything about the MCI's at Ulmer Park,you would know that the mirrors are spring loaded and would just spring back to it's original position.As for not seeing any S.I buses with broken mirrors I have seen many. BTW I'm an Ulmer Park bus operator
Not all of them as one of them was able to be pulled flush against the window.
They Spring Loaded?
Saw an X11 exiting the Battery Tunnel the other night, doing a decent speed out of the tunnel onto West Street going towards Battery Park. Now I know the rear wheel turns to accomodate the turning radius, but this bus looked like the rear fishtailed, and then corrected itself. Is this possible? And if it did, this is dangerous.
Saw Coach USA Flxible 3226 on Church Street the other day (NJT owned), with the destination sign reading
WALE STREET AREA
WALE????
New street for the business people that have a SH!~load of $$$ just sitting around getting fat?
Who repaints the MCIs???
B/c saw bus 1938, with BOLD 1938 in the rear and a bigger than normal MTA blue logo too?
Saw this bus - looks like one of NJTs 5200s MCIs with the destination sign. Did Monsey buy this bus? If so, I thought the 6000s were the first to go, besides the AEs.
Actually a couple of 5xxx Series MCI MC-9B Cruisers and the Coach (Rehabbed) ones have been sold off the property already! I've seen this bus too on 42nd Street a couple of times and it is a ex-NJT unit!
Regards,
T.Lo
wwww.transitalk.com
Some of their early ones were indeed ex NJT equipment. One time I saw a Flxible 870 operating for Monsey, but it was in plain white livery. Couldn't tell where that bus came from. Probably NJT. At last check, they had some late model MCIs.
Monroe Bus recently purchased some former DeCamp 5000 series buses. At least one has been painted all white and is running, but I've also seen at least one running in DeCamp colors.
Also, riding in and out of PABT yesterday, it seemed to me that Rockland Coach (Red and Tan) had many more 6000 series buses running than 5000 series. Perhaps someone decided it is better to sell off the 5000's first for higher prices and sell the 6000's last, which won't fetch as much because of their age compared to the 5000's.
DeCamp still has a couple 5300's. They run only during rush hours, usually on the #33.
Also I think Red and Tan always had more 6000's to begin with. Of the 13 times I've ridden R&T, 8 of those trips were on a 6600-series bus. The others were on 5200-series buses (3), 1 1100-series MC-9, and 1 1100-series 102A3.
Hay! WAIT A MINUTE! I saw that bus on TV back in May on NY1 when they would be talking about Bayridge doing Brooklyn week on NY1.It was turning at a st in brooklyn. Besides that one. It also show a PT Orion1 also.
Saw 5507 on the M15.
Also, I know this is not from 126, but Quill, saw 7049 on X92, with signboard like one of the 4800s RTSs.
What will become of the RTSs at 126, with the arrival of D60HFs?
As of 7/13/01, there are four artics in 126 as a demo. They are: 5506-5509.
Demo my ass, these are permenant additions from what I understand for the rest of the summer!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
"Demo my ass, these are permenant additions from what I understand for the rest of the summer!"
Yep, with at least 70 more on the way. Maybe a little while or so, but definitely coming.
71 to be exact, Buses #5510-5580!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
So what will the final number be? 75? (5506-5580). The M15 AM pullout requires in excess of 80 buses to meet scheduled service. If the M15 is to be an all articulated line then more than 75 buses are needed. That is, unless the TA is planning to cut runs which is what they attempted on all the other Manhattan lines running artics. Service cuts on the M15 would be a disaster. Are those 15 or so older artics from KB still scheduled to come to 126?
Artics always lead to cutting runs
Artics #5505-#5509 is not a demo buses & 126th Street already test those artics early this year. Repeat those are not a demo buses & they are testing on the M15 & other routes.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Hopefully, they'll back the RTS's up and dump them into the Harlem River which sits just behind the depot. Maybe they can create an artificial reef in the Harlem River made out of RTS's similar to the one they want to create off the coast of Delaware with the "Redbird" subway cars.
How come NYC MTA doesn't have sliding windows under the side destination sign like the Privates? I've seen them on QSC, and others, especially the Orions.
Passed by this place on 3rd and Union St in BKLYN - had CUMMINS sign in front and trucks in back. Is this the company that makes the engines/ repairs engines? If so, then why aren't the buses sent there for repair?
B/c there is another Cummins facility in the Bronx, as I have mentioned in previous posts. This factlity is closer to the new repair shop at Zerega, so that may have something to do with it.
And BTW, this facility seems to get more patronage from NJT than anyone else. I wonder why???
++And BTW, this facility seems to get more patronage from NJT than anyone else. I wonder why??? ++
Simply put, NJT has more Cummins-powered buses (the 5 CNG Flxibles, 308 of the 318 Flx Metro Ds, and all 825 RTSs) than the Newark Cummins shop can handle. Cummins Metropower in Newark is just down the street from the Newark Bus Complex on Doremus Avenue, and the shops in Brooklyn and the Bronx are the same ownership.
Got on B49 a couple of days ago at the height of the AM rush towards Kingsboro CC. Packed, probably b/c of the college kids, anyway, driver lets people on until they can't fit in the front door any more. Is it true he's not supposed to let anybody passed the white line? Also, some people just barely got on to the front step of the front door and got off three stops later w/o paying. I checked to make sure they didn't hand somebody their fare for them to pay it, or that they weren't just leaving the bus to let other people on, they just walked off, no fare payment. Also, the people in the middle of the bus HAVE TO hold the hand things that are attached to the bar going across thhe top. Finally the bus can't take one more person. People start getting on in the front of the bus just barely getting on and then end up forcing everybody aside b/c they see their friend in the back of the bus. Now a way to avoid crowding on buses would be to short turn some buses. I believe that many routes can use more and more short turning of the buses. I've only rode this bus once but I'm sure it happens every day. Therefore the later a bus stop you are the more problems you have getting on the bus. No trains go near Kingsboro so you can't go that way. More and more buses should short turn at Ave S and Ocean the way one or two of them do every day. Same with many other routes. The TA should definitely take attention of this they're losing money!!!
The shorts to Ave.S are RUNOFFS to Flatbush Depot. As for the overcrowding on buses, NYC Transit has never satisfactorily addressed this issue.
According to my CDL instructor, NO ONE is supposed to stand in front of the standee line while the bus is moving. If NYCDOT had pulled him over, he would have some explaining to do.
That's nothing compared to what I have to go through on the M100/101 combo to my namesake school. First of all, I have to put up with buses that are short - turned at or near MV or AMS. Next, I can expect a 5 - 10 delay due to a wheelchair pick - up or drop off. Third, I'm always getting on a bus on which the B/O needs to be relieved, adding another 5 - 10 mins to my trip. The clincher is if the bus I getting held up on is a LTD. Did I forget to leave out the enormous crowds that get on both buses in the AM rush, as well as the traffic during the PM rush on 125th and the night service that leaves me stranded?
That bus operator is taking chances with his job, and with the safety of all concerned when allowing people to ride in the stairs. The "white line" is not a NYCTA guideline, but is a federal statute. Compliance is not optional. Personally, I don't allow standees past the line, and I won't move the bus until I get cooperation from the people.
Additionally, the BO must have unobstructed visibility through the door windows for safe operation. A BO I work with had a fatal accident because he allowed school kids to ride in the front stepwell, and never saw that elderly woman stepping off the curb. Although she didn't know that the bus would make a right turn in front of her, she didn't have to. The BO should have had an unobstructed view of the right front area, which he didn't, and subsequently...
There is also the issue of rear door stepwell riding, which can prove more dangerous than the front steps because of the RDI (rear door interlock). This time, the safety of all on board is in jeopardy, and not bystanders outside. Should someone lean hard enough on the rear doors, the RDI will activate and stop the bus with an abrupt jolt, which would easily throw passengers and create injuries.
Everyone here knows the importance of bus safety. It would be great if we could make others understand the same.
As far as overcrowding is concerned, no amount of posting here will solve that. Take a look at http://www.straphangers.org and get involved with transit advocacy. They're on the right track, but because they whine about every facet of transit, they're not taken very seriously by the NYCTA. True, they receive media attention, however the idea here is NYCT attention.
That's exactly what I think of Straphangers.
My point exactly. Here you have a transit advocacy group with some legitimate issues about service, however rather than stand on a single platform and work towards a common goal, they combine countless issues into one unscientificly based agenda and send it off to the NYCTA.
I've browsed their pages, and while I agree with some of the points they make, there are many others where they are off base. Especially since they _know_ how the system works, and know all about the rules and regulations we, as employees face daily.
Their favorite pet project seems to be their "Riders Diaries", where they encourage everyone to discuss the horror that is the NYCTA. I've participated there semi-regularly, hoping to add an employee perspective to things, yet when I questioned their biased and very amateur approach to surveys (and the like), I was asked to refrain from "personal attacks"!
Their numbers are based on survey participation from their website forum membership, yet we know nothing about their membership. How can the NYCTA take them seriously? Al O'Leary, spokesperson for the NYCTA concurs, "We don't take anything they say seriously" [NY Daily News July 10 2001].
On one hand, I agree with much of what they attempt to accomplish, it's the other hand that disagrees with their process and technique.
LI Bus usually stuffs as many in there as they can, on the stairs wherever people fit. This is common on crowded routes like the N20,21,22,and 24. LI Bus seems to be immune from safety rules.
I just looked at a website about the Watertown Line at MBTA, and it showed a pic of a PCC streetcar with "batwing" ad signs on the roof, a la the NYCTA Fishbowls and Flxibles.
The signs were apparently short-lived and were placed on the cars in the late 1960s; does anyone know if these were made by Bus-O Rama, and which cities used them? Also, are there any restored cars with the batwings still in place? While not directly a bus-related topic, I'd love to find out.
-F.
I don't know if they were made by the same folks that made the Bus-O-Rama display units, but there are PLENTY of PCC-type cars in Europe that have simulated batwings for advertising. Most of them are flat panels with bracework behind them, but appear somewhat similar.
NO WAY! There are PCC-style streetcars in Europe? Gotta see these!
-F.
As you suggest, the "batwings" on light rail cars in Europe generally do not have fluorescent lighting in back so that the ads light up at night. The batwings on the NYCTA buses looked great when lit up at night!
I'll bet they did; must have beenn a wonnderful sight! Does annyonne have old pics of these?
Also, it is to my understanding that VTC of Richmond, VA (nee GRTC) had Bus-O-Rama batwings on its Fishbowls. We have a 1966 GM 5303 from there and I was curious as to whether our bus ever had them (VTC no. 418); does anyone know? Please tell me if so; thanks!
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Roanoke, Virginia
If I remember correctly one of the last scenes of Woody Allen's "Annie Hall" features a scene with a NYC bus with batwings in the background. This was on Columbus Ave. at Lincoln Center.
Craig
+
Annie Hall....got it...must watch Annie Hall. If it has batwings, it's bound to be either a Fishbowl or a Flx.
-F.
but isn't the requirement to hold a clean license for 3 years
I heard there is some private company in Philadelphia running a EX New York bus service New Look in Phily ? Does anyone know where this new look runs to ? and when does she operate ?just weekdays or weekends too ?
thanks Luke
It operates weekdays only between Center City and some private apartment complex in South Jersey. I don't know the details about the routing.q
Cool; I'd love to ride it around!
-F.
1.How long did it take to tranfer the buses from lurzern to they?
2.Did midivale still have bus shortage?
3.do anybady have any pictures of the depot?
----thank you-----
/ patkylekenny
allwell.
2.Did midivale still have bus shortage?
Yes. Quite a few of the Midvale artics are being used on the R5 Ambler/Jenkintown bus bridge (Allegheny is also using some artics for this service; Comly operates some older Neos during the weekdays, which mainly see service for the supplemental buses between Lansdale and Doylestown.
3.do anybady have any pictures of the depot?
Midvale Depot itself is set back quite a distance from Wissahickon Av, which is the main route used to get there. I don't have any Midvale Depot pics, and I probably won't anytime soon.
i think that there is a street next to huntinton park
ave where the back side of the depot.
i found this article on toronto's rebuilding program in the august 2000 issue of canadian transit forum... i thought it might be of interest...
http://www.kenilworth.com/CUTA/CUTA_00_08/CUTA_00_08.htm
Unusal (at least to me) sighting for the day: Red & Tan Orion V #21010 shuttling across 34 St with a large, red "NY WATERWAYS" sign covering the front destination sign. The Newark Airport graphics have been removed from the sides, but it still has CoachUSA logos and OPERATOR: RED & TAN LINES on it.
Damn!!!!You Beat me to the punch!!! I saw the same bus about a half hour b4 you did. Good lookin.
And there are Flxible 870's running on those lines also. I saw one from a distance on Friday running west on W57th street. I wonder if Coach USA has put their hands on the NY Waterway Bus system?
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitalk.com
So this was a reportable sighting; I wasn't sure if it would be another "yeah, and the Q44 still goes to the Bronx" post :). I'll keep my eye out for the 870s; it looks like I should bring my camera with me on lunch :).
It doesn't make sense that CoachUSA, given their recent difficulties, would be taking over a free shuttle service, especially since the NYC-NJ ferries compete with some of their subsidiaries' bus routes. I'm guessing that these buses were sold or loaned to NY Waterways.
Did you get a photo of it? And how much is the fare on the NY Waterway SHUTTLE Buses?
Please tell me that this is NOT true? Please tell me that. Some nut from TT forum said that buses 4300-4899 series will be repowered. Why not repower the 1700's and 1800's since we have nothing else to do. I need to know, it that true?
Ray
It's ture! Some 1985-1987 RTS's would be Rebulid and Repower to a DDC50 Series Engine. I think the Rebulid would start maybe soon. And I think the 3800's would get Rebulid also and the 3900's-4200's too. I hopeing #4899 and #4898 should be the ones to get Repower and Rebulid first.
Where did you hear that bullshit, the 4300-4800 are slated for retirement within a two-three years (replaced by Orion 7s and Artics), I JUST DON'T THINK SO SON SON! Also its not in the capital plan for the 1986-1987 RTSs to be repowered. SO CHECK THEM SOURCES SON SON!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
A person said so on TT Message Borad. The person said that OLDER Drivers like driveing those buses.
Just because a driver "likes" a bus doesn't mean that the TA is gonna keep it, in that case we would still have Blitzed Fishbowls still running!!!!
This is what's coming up and what will erraticate the RTSs 2xxx to 4xxx.
"The 2000-2004 Capital Program includes the purchase of 1,257 buses ($491 million) to continue normal replacement of the fleet and to continue NYC Transit’s commitment to clean fuel bus technology. The purchases include 260 articulated buses ($113 million), 447 high-capacity express buses ($155 million), 250 standard-size hybrid-electric buses ($95 million) and 300 standard-size compressed natural gas buses ($102 million)."
So cancel that garb about the 4xxx's being repowered! I will check TT's message board for that message!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
What about the 7000's and 7500's series buses? They are former 1000/2000-series buses that were rebuilt but have not been repowered. Will they be repowered also? How long does the TA plan on running them?
Since the 7000's and 7500's suck, I hope it's not beyond 2003 or 2004 at the very latest.
Since the MTA decided to send them to either 207th st or Midwest Exp. for a GOH sans the lastest DD engine (instead of ordering newer buses like they were supposed to), expect those Remans to be around and getting on the nerves of B/Os for quite awhile.
I don't believe that the Detroit Diesel 6V92TA engines currently in the 7000 & 7500 series buses meet the tough new emission standards set to go into effect in 2003. Although they received emissions upgrades during their overhaul, the buses still produce excessive amounts of smoke. In addition, judging by how crappy they are, it appears the overhaul was not much more than a paint and patch job on what is essentially a 20 year old frame.
Actually the Series 92 engines (6V92-TA) on the 7000 and 7500 Series RTSs do meet the current standards because the are rebuilt with DDEC IV Electronic Control Modules, same as the Series 50, thus the name Detorit Diesel Series 92 Reliabilt. They were rebuilt like this to maintain today's standards. New Jersey Transit currently has about 50% of its Flxible METRO-B fleet running with these engines.
The way you can tell a bus has a Reliabilt Series 92 engine:
1) Detroit Diesel "blue" EPA Reliabilt sticker on engine door (exterior)
2) Engine is either Blue or Purple.
Hope this info give everyone a better understanding on why the 7000s and 7500s don't require the engine upgrade to Series 50.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
So you mean they may acutally live past the year 2003?
Exactly!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
I understand that they meet "current standards" but I thought the new emission standards going into effect in 2003 were a lot tougher. Why would the TA be repowering all the 8000 series RTS and 100 & 200 series Orions with DD-50 engines if all that is needed is for their existing 6V92TA engines to be rebuilt with DDEC IV Electronic Control Modules? The 7000 & 7500 series RTS's smoke way too much for me to believe that they will meet the 2003 clean air standards.
The 7000 & 7500 series RTS's were overhauled in 1996. If they are retired in 2003, that will mean that they will have given 7 years worth of service. Considering that the overhauls given them weren't exactly of the best quality, I'd say that the TA should be happy that they lasted that long.
The reason the 8000's and the 1xx, 2xx, and 3xx Orion V's are being repowered is for the reason you just mentioned above. The Orion V's and the 8000's have had 6V-92TA DDECIV's installed but the problem is that with the current exhaust systems they have they would not meet the 2003 and beyond standards to take place. Most transit systems like LACMTA have discontinued use of floor or street discharge exhaust systems because the exhaust particulates don't burn as well than with roof mounted exhaust. So what they did was convert their current fleet of RTS's and Flxible METRO's to roof exhaust and so when you do this in conjuntion with DDECIV upgraded engines of what ever type, a Series 92 or Series 50 they will be better equipped to meet the new standards of current and possibly future. The original specs for the 7xxx/75xx called for the Series 50 to be installed but the TA changed the specs to the Series 92 DDECIII "Reliabilt" instead to save money. NJT and NYCT should have used roof monted exhaust to really improve emissions on these buses. In 1993 the TA had 4513 out of 100th Street depot retrofitted with a roof exhaust system, she was loud but very clean compared to when she had street level exhaust. The 7xxx/75xx series remain a slight mystery to me because they could have choosen buses out of the 1986 group for reman and that way we would have more viable buses for repowering, I really don't see it reasonable to repower a 7xxx/75xx bus. They should just put roof mounted exhaust instead.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
4898 AND 4899 are in EDGEWATER.
One of them - I forget which one - has had a lot of scrappage taken -
Missing window, engine compartment doors, etc.
Personally, I see repowering ONLY the 4800s, if they EVER decide to do it.
Stop believing all the bullshit some fool with nothing better to do is writing on another message board. I've read memo after memo that are only available to transit workers stating ONLY the 8000-8500 series buses,(1990-1993) will be repowered. None of the 4000's or 3000's or 7000's or anything older is getting repowered. The only thing getting repowered with these buses will be the crushing machine.
BIG AL
how did artics get on the bx31
I suspect a Bx31 operator pulled one out of the depot!
[Couldn't resist - it's been a tough week in the office!]
I guess they needed to make service, or an operator requested the Artic. I know that the BX31 is one of those routes that can take either the RTS or Artics.
With the amount of passemger traffic the Bx31 gets coming out of Westchester Sq. as well as the Edenwald area, D60 useage is warranted. But then again, that depends on how many artics are ready for service and whether the B/O will be allowed to take one out or not.
Only the yard dispather give them a artics or rts on Bx31 not the B/O can pick any buses they want.
Peace
David Justiniano
thats cool
true true
true
Now they have 2 to 3 artics on the Bx25, Bx26, and Bx28. Now THAT'S something to talk about! I saw two of each yesterday!
CWalNYC
yeah it is i saw a couple to
Don't forget the Bx3
Peace
David Justiniano
i saw artics on the bx3 too
even the bx16 and bx30 once
Artics on the BX16?, maybe the BX16 to Mundy Lane, but to Ropes Ave, that turn overthere is hard enough on an RTS, let alone on an Artic.
Artic on the Bx30, I could see that, I drove the 30 last pick, and the turns could take and Artic.
Well.
Now add #447 and #465 to the list of Bee Line Buses with the New Paint job. #447 was running the 30(New Rochelle-Bronxville-Yonkers.) Route. And #465 made a RARE show up running the 45(The Bronx-New Rochelle-Eastchester.)Route. idk why there's a Orion5 on 45. It was to be a FULLY Flxible Metro route. Route like the 30 and some others run the Orion5's. Right now. I am makeing a list of Bee Line Buses with the new paint job. I do like the new paint job and I heard that 10 MAN's would be Repainted. I would like to see the new paint job on those MAN's.
BTW. Are there any Neoplans in service yet or there would be by end of July?
First off, the 45 has had Orions countless times before. Get Over That!
Secondly, the M*A*Ns will NOT be repainted as they will be replaced by years end!!!!!
Get over that idea, QUICK!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
"Secondly, the M*A*Ns will NOT be repainted as they will be replaced by years end!!!!!"
I heard that Bee Line would get 40 More Neoplans(20 for 2002,20 for 2003.) Some MAN's could stay with Bee Line until 2002 or 2003. Who knows.
"First off, the 45 has had Orions countless times before"
Nowadays I starting to see a few running on 45. And even today. I saw a Orion5 #402 on 66 tunning from Centere Ave onto Main St in New Rochelle. That's near by my school!
66 Orion5 #402.
45 Orion5 #466.
OK whopty about the Orions, the Bee Line Orions are any and everywhere!
And the Neoplan order is for 78 Buses, NOT 40!!!!!! This is erraticate all M*A*Ns and add 16 more Articulated to Bee Lines fleet, The order may extend into 2003 for "delievery" however Bee Line will NOT waste money and paint a buses so close to retirement, They are NOT the TA, NOW READ INTO THAT COMMENT, Some will understand!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
I am talking about the Option Order after the 69 Bus order from Neoplan for this year that the Option order is comming in 2002 and 2003.
As for the Orions. They could be on the White Plans SHUTTLE Loops as well?
That's just what it is, A OPTION ORDER, which means extra buses. The initial order will retire all MANs, so no MANs will remain, and the option order HAS NOT been exercised yet!
Regard,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Not to toss in a cheap plug for my site, but I do have a page related to the Bee Line artics which provide details about the new buses.
My trip began with me awake at 540am(yawn)-after taking LIRR to Jamaica, i got the Q8-Orion V #5525. Caught sight of a lot of 3800's and 1800's on the LIRR Shuttle as well as Orion V buses. I caught sight of #4567 and Parsons-Archer as well as #9200's on the Q42 series. When i got to 165th, i got on N24(Orion V-CNG #302). This bus was mobbed,standing room but very airconditioned-felt like a meat locker. Saw mostly orions running at LI Bus.
My arrival to Mineola got me on N79 Orion V #270-CNG. This kept having the AC go on and off, but i was near a open window, so the ride was pretty good.
When i arrived to Walt Whitman Mall, my camera took a lot of action photos. I did see Suffolk Transit buses, primarily #9900's Orion V and 9600's Gillig(no Flexible Metro) and did see HART Buses-which is what i boarded to the garage.
I boarded Gillig #601(H9A)-The driver said that the town was losing money andw anted to cut service completly.
When i got to the garage, i did have a chane to talk to a recpetionist named Ms. beyer. She said the best pics for HART is at the mall, but did get inside the garage to see Orion II(#300's),Gillig's(#500,s and 600's) and #700 series.
I headed back to Brooklyn via LIRR. Long Day, but good pics taken.
Q8-Orion V-#5525-Green Bus Lines.
N24-Orion V-CNG-#302-MTA-LIBus.
N79-Orion V-CNG-#270-MTA-LIBus.
H9A-Gillig-#601-HART.
[Saw mostly orions running at LI Bus.]
What else did you see besides Orions at LI Bus? I thought that Orions are all they have.
Thats all i saw-either they were diesel buses or the CNG Buses. Next trip might be to Mitchell Field-so hoping i cans ee differnt buses there.
Its easy just press the brake all the way down andwait till the bus stops and the doors open press the gas and the doors close.
As said so on MTA's website.
"M34
Buses now serve the East 34 St Ferry Terminal
Effective Sunday, July 15, 2001
The M34 is permanently rerouted along E 34 St and the FDR Drive to the Ferry Terminal.
After leaving the Terminal, the M34 runs south on the FDR Drive and returns to its regular route along 34 St to the Javits Center.
The M34 no longer stops at 1 Av and E 36 St.
New bus schedules will be available soon." DUH!
I reported this a few months ago from the NYC Transit Committee Agendas
Today, I finally saw a repowered RTS for the first time. But after seeing repowered 8375 running along Jamaica ave on the Q30, about 30 minutes later I saw repowered 8352 running on the Q36. Both buses sported new paint jobs with no ads on them at all. I guess now that their getting busy repowering the 1990 TMC's, then I would assume nearly all the 1993 TMC's must be pretty much done.
BIG AL
Nearly the entire RTS batch at JG has been repowered, and Zerega is currently going to work on the '90 and '93 RTS batch at FLA, 126th, and HP, which have qutie a few of them. Don't expect any heads to start turning until the batches at ENY, FP, and MaBSTOA start getting appointments.
will the 8300's at ULP get repowered too? i know they only have a few,but they need to get done as well.
NYCT's 1990 RTS order (8000-8396; 8397 was a methanol bus and 8398 and 8399 were CNG -- they're all off the property) is being converted to the Series 50 engine. All remaining buses in this series will be done.
David
how come there are kingsbridge buses appear in gh depot sometimes
like 5441 on the BX12
5503 in the mourning on the bx31
Kingsbridge does have split runs with Gun Hill in the summer time on the Bx12 to help with the runs to Orchard Beach!
The Bx12 now has a couple of runs, such as:
Orchard Beach - Fordham Plaza
Orchard Beach - Sedgwick Avenue
Orchard Beach - Inwood 207th Street
Pelham Bay Park - Co op City Bartow & Edson (Shuttle)
Co op City Bartow & Edson - Sedgwick Avenue
Co op City Bartow & Edson - Inwood 207th Street
So with all these Bx12 runs Kingsbridge's help is needed!
About the bus on the Bx31, Its possible that Kingsbridge is helping on that line but I doubt it. KB and GH does swap artics alot!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
thanks t.lo
i think youre right
r142man
jay
Will the TA purcess any more Orion 5 models? As I understand,the TA passed over the orion 6 for the orion 7.When wil we expect to see them?
Expect the first 50 sometime between the Fall of 2001/Winter 2002 at Jackie Gleason from what I understand.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
I myself have heard August, but Trevor's information may just be closer to accurate.
Hey, Bingham!
CWalNYC here. Nice to hear from ya!
I'm waiting on my couch potato couch for them...lol
Hi back at ya!
Well. I was by Newport Mall today. And saw L&G still running today. Buses I saw was #1200,and #1500 Series RTS's on Newport Local and some on 16. And saw a Flxible MetroA #203 on 16. I took 2 Photos. #1234 running on Newport Local and Flxible MetroA #203 on 16. When I saw #203. That made me think that L&G got rid of those aready. The bus have WHITE Paint job and the letters where in YELLOW. The bus did have a digital sign. BUT it was not working. So this lead me to this question. How many 200 Series Flxible MetroA's to L&G still have left?
Also I saw a 1200 Series Nova with a RED Stripe with Headsign saying "WESTSIDE". Westside what? This bus pass by Newport Mall and this was a Broadway IBOA bus without the words "BROADWAY IBOA".
Also I saw Nova #2604 on 86. The bus was not carrying Passengers. Why the 2600's don't have the ROUND Lights right next to the REAR sign? And how FAR from Newport Mall do the 86 Begins? #2604 was going westbound at the time.
NPL Nova RTS#1234
86 Nova RTS#2604
16 Flxible Metro#203
"How many 200 Series Flxible MetroA's to L&G still have left?"
MY BAD! I did a mistake on that. I did a TYPO! It was to be Do. NOT To.
#203 is the only 1983 Flxible Metro-A, in the 200 series. #236 on the other hand is a 1978 Grumman 870. #203 by the way is an ex-NJT bus. They also have 2 NJT owned 870B's still left on property #2112 and #2277.
Jason D.
Thanks. :)
#236 is not used in passenger service no more, that bus is just there for when an emergency has occured such as short on buses etc.
The #1234 bus you saw that was in a red stripe scheme was from Montgomery & Westside IBOA.
Jason D.
#1234 have a WITHE PAINT JOB with a L&G Logo. It was some other 1200 it was with the RED Stripe.
Oh, that must be the 1981 Grumman, that was sitting over in there lot for god knows how long before they did anything with it. They also have an 1152 Grumman as well, those are both ex-NJT units.
Jason D.
I talking about #1234. Witch is a RTS that L&G have. The other 1200 was with a RED Stripe and it was a RTS. #1152 is DEAD! I just look at a photo of it and it's all rip apart.
I was talking to the general manager, and he was telling me at one time they were thinking about fixing that bus up completely and putting it into service.
But that doesn't really make sense - not only do they have brand new Novas, the also purchased a number of retired Queens Surface RTS buses of 1986 vintage, and they even have a couple of early-80's Fishbowls!
I've seen the QS RTS's in service a few times and rode two of them - one on the 5/6 and the other on the #16, but I've NEVER seen the Fishbowls in service. Do they ever come out for a spin?
I've seen the Fishbowls in service about 3 times on the 16 since I moved to Jersey in 1997. Nowadays they don't see any service, someone worded off to me that L&G have them incognito and will only pull them out on special occasion.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
You can go to the site below to see what happened to the L&G (ex Conn.) fishbowls (I'm not part of the group below, I just happened to see their site awhile back).
http://www.njthc.org/collection/busdonation.html
Nice to see those Homeless New Looks finnaly got a NEW HOME!
The 4 fishbowls mentioned are all former Conn. buses. 8301 and 8313 were used in express service in Hartford (8301 was in New Haven for awhile) from 1983 to 1994, as they had high-back, suburban-type seating. One or both may have run in Waterbury service between 1994 and 1996. 8361 and 8367 were used by New Britain Transporation for local New Britain area service from 1983 to 1996.
BTW. Nice photos.
Is that bus in service yet?
#1152 not yet. From what I hear when demand increases or they get new routes in which they are in the process of creating, #1152 might see service.
About those Fishbowls, they were donated months ago to the NJ Transportation Heritage Center, and once it opens they will be on display and one of them may be used to for like tours. Like one of them they will run for short rides. #206 will probably not be that one, since that one was not driven in, they had to tow that one in. From what I hear #204 is in really good shape.
[From what I hear #204 is in really good shape.]
#204 is the only bus of the batch NJTHC has which was used exclusively in express (mostly park and ride) service for most of its life - in the Hartford area. #205 and 206 ran in New Britain local service, although (after rereading the NJTHC description) I believe 206 got an interior makeover at some point and was used more in charter service than in local transit.
[#236 on the other hand is a 1978 Grumman 870]
#236 is a former CTTransit bus that ran in New Haven, Conn. It and its mates were the second earliest Grumman 870 order (MARTA in Atlanta was first). The order included 165 40-foot buses (101-265) and 115 35-footers (501-615). Montgomery & West Side also had a few of these 40-footers; the only number I remember is 169, which was a Hartford bus. These buses had unique white plastic seats that I have never seen on any other bus.
I have to go to Hillside facility on Mon. Does the Lirr shuttle bus stop there in lieu of regular train service?
Yes it Does.
There is direct service between HSF and Jamaica. If you're coming from Queens Village, be sure you don't get on the "Express" which bypasses Hollis and HSF via Jamaica Avenue. The shuttle operates fare-free and runs continuously.
What time will you be using the bus? I can post the approximate nearest scheduled bus if you'd like. Just tell me which direction you'll be coming from, and an hour window.
Approx 11am-12pm from HSF going westbound to Jamaica station.
Rode to HMF today, had Orion 625 going E/B. It was a fairly decent bus. It was also my first ride on an Orion suburban, It was very comfortable, with the reclining seats. Don't quite know why people did not like them on Staten Island. On the W/B trip I had the great 1751 pick me up at HMF. For its age it was very well maintained, AC was good and cold, also those padded blue seats are comfortable. I would like to see this bus in service for a long time. I hope that QV will not make a mistake and scrap this bus anytime soon. On the way to Jamaica we passed 1773 doing Lirr shuttle service also. Looked very classic with those old style tinted windows. Keep em rolling!!
According to Brooklyn67, PA1751 was a bad order bus that got an A/C fix. You're a very lucky man, I can tell you that.
As a Queens rider who has had to endure 625 more than a few times, I'm surprised you didn't comment on how hard she shifts gears, unless of course 625 was fixed within the past week. When it would downshift you'd swear the gearbox was fighting to self-destruct, as that's how harsh it changes gears.
Here's the announcement:
I, CWalNYC, want to start a website which consists of ONLY Orion VII buses, whether it's the Orion VII diesel demo, the Orion VII CNG, or the Orion VII HEV, I want to start a site full of the stuff. So, If ANYONE, absolutely ANYONE in this forum plans to have ANY Orion VII photos that you would like to submit, when they are introduced and put onto the streets, I'D APPRECIATE IT IF YOU PLEASE E-MAIL THEM TO ME AT carlwal@hotmail.com WHENEVER YOU GET THEM, AND WHEN I POST THEM ON MY SITE, I WILL DEFINETLY GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE!!!!!!!!!!!
FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE WEBSITES, THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE YOUR PHOTOS SEEN BY MANY ON THE WEB!
I'D LIKE TO START MY OWN COLLECTION OF THIS BUS MODEL JUST FOR THE HELL OF IT. YES, I WILL BE PLACING ANY AND ALL OF MY ORION VII PHOTOS HERE AS WELL, WHEN I GET THEM.
WHEN THE SITE IS UP AND RUNNING, I WILL DEFINITELY REMEMBER TO PROVIDE THE URL AND THE LINK TO THE SITE AS WELL.
THANKS A WHOLE BUNCH IN ADVANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CWalNYC
With regards, of course, even if I don't say it
(8-)}
carlwal@hotmail.com
P.S., to T. Lo., if you want, can I place that Orion 7 photo that you have on my site as well? Thanks a bunch in advance!!!!!!!!
Good luck. I don't know of any other US system that is going to place an order for the Orion VII following the recent fiascos in NYC.
[I don't know of any other US system that is going to place an order for the Orion VII following the recent fiascos in NYC.]
I believe CT Transit has one Orion VII hybrid bus on order for delivery around June 2002. I suspect it will run in Hartford, but should be able to find out for sure when it is delivered.
1. What Buses run on 780?
2. Is it a 2 Zone ride on 780 from Transfer Center to Passaic Bus Terminal?
3. Where is 709 out from? And how long that gararge have the 1995 Nova's?
4.Can I ask for a Transfer from the 163 to get on the 709?
5. What buses run on 163,and 709?
Thanks.
[4.Can I ask for a Transfer from the 163 to get on the 709?]
That depends on where you boarded the 163.
The general rule is that you may buy a transfer if your ride STARTS in New Jersey, and you may use a transfer if your ride will END in New Jersey. Riders may not purchase transfers when boarding in NYC or Philadelphia, and may NOT use transfers when traveling to NYC or Philadelphia. What governs is where the passenger is going, not where the bus is going.
(I don't know what the rule is with respect to routes 196/197 in Orange County, NY; 890/891 in Easton, PA; or 468 in Wilmington, DE.)
[1. What Buses run on 780?]
Community Coach uses 40 foot Nova RTS's and Flxible METRO D's.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
1. Community runs 1999 40 foot Nova RTSs and 1994 Flxible Metro Ds
2. Yes
3. 709 is currently served by NJT/Market Street, and they have had 1999 Nova RTSs from July 1999 - they were the first NJT garage to receive them. The 709 was previously a Community contracted route, but was returned to NJT in January 1999. It coincided with the beginning of the 4/17 interchange reconstruction, and the 709 was expanded from a 12-hour route to an 18-hour route.
4. As long as you board the 163 in New Jersey, you can ask for a transfer to any NJT or NJT-contracted route as long as you ride the second bus within NJ
5. 163 uses MCI MC-9s, MCI D4000s, and Flxible Metro D suburbans from Oradell garage. The 709 uses Nova RTS and Flxible Metro D transits from Market Street, although a bus from Orange garage may show if equipment is short.
[163 uses MCI MC-9s, MCI D4000s, and Flxible Metro D suburbans from Oradell garage.]
Last week I was on two MC-9's out of Market Street on Route 164 (during the rush hours). I didn't know whether any of the rush hour 163's may also be out of Market Street instead of Oradell.
Yes, Market Street does add rush hour support on the 163 and 164. Eventually, all 163 and 164 service wil be moved to Oradell - probably around the time the new Clifton garage opens to replace Market Street.
Is 709 could be heading to Oradell too?
No - Oradell will not have any transit routes. The 709 will go to Clifton when it opens.
When Clifton garage opens, will Market Street close permanently? I thought I had heard once that Market Street (or the other Paterson garage closed down awhile back) might be rebuilt for NJ Transit, but now it seems as if Clifton will totally replace Paterson.
Yes, Clifton will replace Market Street. MS is considered too old to upgrade, and the other garage, Madison Avenue, was too small (both the building and the lot) to be useful for anything. Madison Avenue had the same problem Warwick did - too low for MCIs. All of Warwick's MC9s were parked outside in the lot, and the service trucks inside the actual building.
When Clifton opens (2003 or 2004), the only NYC routes it will have will likely be the 160, 171, and 175 using a handful of suburbans. All the MCI routes will be moved to either Oradell or Wayne.
Thanks.
Now I be comming from PABT on 163 and I want a Transfer to 709 without wasting $$$ on 709. Can I do that?
Transfers are not valid if your origin or destination is a NYC Terminal!
For those who do not know, Market St. Garage is located in Paterson. I wonder why NJT does not refer to this location.
Public Servuice referred to many of their garages by their street location, or some other name. Remaining PS garages that are not named after their city are:
- Market Street (Paterson)
- Newton Avenue (Camden)
- Big Tree (Nutley) - there's a huge tree in front of it
- Hilton (Maplewood)
- Greenville (Jersey City)
- Ferry Street maintenance (Newark)
NJT has opened 2 facilities without the city name
- Ironbound (Newark)
- Meadowlands (North Bergen)
The remaining garages are all named for their city: Hamilton, Washington Township, Egg Harbor, Howell, Orange, Fairview, Oradell, Wayne
Here's a link to the 30 Foot nova at Ferry Ave PATCO.
http://www.nycsubway.org/us/phila/patco/patco-ferry04.jpg
Just woundering. What Bus route that bus could be running. I guessing the 459. Am I right?
That bus was probably on the 453 from Newton Av. It looks as though that picture was taken several months ago, as the 30-ft Novas which were assigned to Newton Av were sent north (CUSA/Community, Broadway IBOA, Connex Transit/Monmouth) while Newton recieved 40-ft Novas from CUSA/Community.
The 459 operates between Echelon Mall, Lindenwold PATCO, and Avandale Park/Ride.
Valley Metro Transit in Phoenix is recieving 75 new NABI 40 foot low floor buses bewtween August 1 and November 30 (NABI are UGLI and here the only sit 25, 18 with 2 wheelchairs on board (All seats face isle no foward facing seats) they refuse to by alt fued artics because none are LF (Valley Metro decided 5 years ago not to buy any more buses with steps and lifts) The RTS (GM/TMC), New Flyer LF40 Disel and MAN Artics will all be retired by 2003, My Fab bus is either the TMC RTS6 or MAN Artic.
Valley Metro rather run more smaller buses then artics during rush crush 330am-9am 3pm-7pm. and Red Line All Day (330 Am - 12mid M-F 430am-11pm Sat & 5am -10pm Sun)(33 Miles End To End M-F 27 Miles Sat/Sun).
When I visited Phoenix in March, I spotted some new NABI 40 foot low floor buses at the garage south of I-17. As I may have posted then, these were CNG buses and not LNG buses. I suspect these were the first of the 75-bus order you speak of. Will all 75 buses be CNG?
the 75 are seperate from the 40 buses that arrived in feb-apr 01, all are CNG.
Thanks. I will really miss some of the older buses that these two orders are replacing. As much as I like the Valley Metro NABI's, I hate seeing the fleet becoming closer and closer to 100% NABI. I wonder whether some of those strange, smaller buses (mostly on Route 30) will still be in Tempe next time I get there. I'm sure the newer LNG small buses on Routes like 56 and 62 will still be around; I think they are Thor El Dorado LF's.
the smaller El dorados are Owned By the city of tempe and operated by forsythe. and are operated on the following routes Red, 30, 45, 56, 62, 65, 66, 77, 81, 92, 108 & 124 there also owned by the city of scottsdale and run on routes 68, 76, 84, 114, and 146. these buses are seen as Valley Metro, Bolt, TIM and Scottsdale Connection.
How ironic; our TA here in Roanoke, VA is also known as Valley Metro and will receive new buses as well, including low floors. Two Thomas SLF 235s will arrive for the new Downtown Express route in August, and 10 new Gillig Phantoms will replace our 1988 models in October.
All new buses will feature Cummins engines; it will be interesting to see what happens as Roanoke has run Detroit Diesels for years.
-F.
Does Roanoke, VA still have any Flxibles ?
Luke
I think they do have some left.
I wish we did. :(
-F.
Luke, I'd love to say yes, but they were all retired by 1994. As you may know, we used to have a fleet of 1976 New Looks and 1979 Grumman 870s; these were my favorite fleet of all time.
Valley Metro has always loved the dependability and customer support of Flxible; when they began planning for new coaches in the late 1980s, they wanted to acquire a fleet of new Flx Metros but instead went for the lower bid as Flxible's came up high. As a result, the first 5 buses purchased for lower ridership routes were an awful fleet of 25' Skillcraft buses. All of the drivers hate these, and not surprisingly, the factory went out of business very shortly after the order was filled.
All orders after that have been 35' Gilligs; while they were a welcome breath of fresh air after those stubby Skillcrafts, they still don't match the looks of the Flxible Metro. Our last new bus order was in 1994, when Flxible was still in business. If only we could have gotten those....
On a brighter note, we have preserved one of each in our collection; a 35' Valley Metro 1976 Flxible New Look no. 179, and VM 1979 Grumman 35' no. 186, which was recently restored. Hopefully one day we can do the same for 179 one day as it has sat outside for several years; that is my favorite one in our historic fleet. We also have a 40' 1976 Flx from PenTran of Hampton, VA; it, along with 186, are our two only running coaches at this time and have served us well during museum events and excursions.
-Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Visit us at www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
Do you have photos of buses from down there besides the Gillig photo on Valley Metro's website? And I want to see photos of the SLF200 and the NEW Gilligs. And Flxibles too.
We don't have the new buses yet, but you may see our Flxes at:
www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
Enjoy the site!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
is that the nabi that can reach speeds up to 75mph.
Great news, everyone; I now have a Flx New Look model for sale on eBay. The bus has been finished in 1960s NYCTA green and silver colors and is in 1:200 scale. Happy bidding!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Great news, everyone; I now have a Flx New Look model for sale on eBay. The bus has been finished in 1960s CTA (Cleveland, OH) blue and silver colors and is in 1:200 scale. Happy bidding!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Here's another neat bus model; it's a 1:64 scale Fishbowl that has been painted in the newer TTC (Toronto) colors similar to the recently overhauled 2000 series Fishbowls still in service. Check it out' more great model buses to come!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Bx12:When you ride the Bx12 to Orcid beach,you can see lovely forests and quiet suburban homes within city limits
Bx29:The stop after Pheelam station is city island.Resembling a Maine community City park is a bayside community surrounded by the east River.
Q53/Q21:If you hate the A train these 2 buses provide a bettr view of the Jamaica bay wildlife refuge just North of Broad channel
S79/S53:When Riding over the Verrazano you get a luscious view of The Newyork Skyline
There are more senic rotes by buses but You would have to see for yorself
Wow...sounds like the BX12 is a nice route to ride. I am currently doing a model of an NYC Grumman for someone who requested BX12 for the digital destination sign; I can't wait to see how it turns out!
-F.
YO!
Are you makeing a model of a Orion5 yet?
Not yet, but I will look into it; keep posted!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Just returned from LV this morning after a nice relaxing week away this place we call paradise(aka NYC)Wasn't able to get pics unfortunately but notice the new navy & gold scheme that is replacing the turquiose and pink .Also the Gillags are gone id not see nada.Also saw a few RTS-04 30 footers running as fun shuttles that and managed ride 2 of there New Flyer D40HF's (404 & 425)with the rear window and no a/c (except for the rooftop Sutrac system which worked like crap.Also got one D60HF (#514 great a/c also)and the highlight my trip catching a NABI 436 (#568).After riding this bus I'm a fan of NABI's and like to see the NYCTA purchase these artrics instead of its current New Flyers.This bus doesn't have its usual stop requested sign,instead the bus annunciation system says stop requested after the bell is rung.Also saw one there D40LF's and a 416LF as well.
I'm looking Queens Surface Corp. bus roster from 1991 or 1992. I remember that they had a great asortment of buses around those years (Grumman 870, 30ft Flx & GMC new looks, full size Flx & GMC new looks, ex-Bridgeport RTS-2 with the great sounding 8V-71 engines, and a few other rarities. Also on the topic, if bus rosters from the same year, are available from TCC, and GBL, would also be appreciated.
Thanx!
What GBL have back in 1991 was: MCI Classics(2 Doors and 1 Door.),Flxible 870's(There own and Second Hand.),Flxible New Looks(40 Foots.),GM New Looks(40 Foots,Some 30 Foots,and Ex STRSM 40 Foots.),and GM RTS's(Some where Slopeback.).
idk about TCC. BUT the ones I know from that time where GM RTS's,Flxible 870's,MCI Classics,and a few Flxible New Looks(Some where Ex NJTransit.).
Thanx, I more or less knew what they had, but I'm looking for a roster that has all the bus numbers, amount of each type, vintage, and their previous ownership, if any.
thanx!
OK. idk where. BUT I don't think there are any rosters online on what you looking for.
The shorter new look Flxibles were 35 footers, not 30 footers. They were from CDTA in Albany, NY. Almost all of the other NYCDOT companies with transit service had some also.
Okay, here's my version of the '91-'92 roster. Now, I know that somebody is going to correct me (TREVOR)! So be gentle when you do.
Okay, the roster:
Grumman Flexible (870 ADB) buses 800-842 acquired in 1980 for QTC (Queens Transit Corporation)
STEINWAY TRANSIT CORPORATION HAD BUSES 410-429 WHICH LATER WENT TO QUEENS TRANSIT CORPORATION AND THEN BECAME "QUEENS SURFACE CORPORATION" IN 1986 ONCE THEY MERGED.
GMC RTS-04 (T80-604) buses 24-42, 205-243 acquired in 1985
" " -06 (T80-606) " 43-54, 244-258, 270-274 acquired in 1986
MCI Classic Suburban (TC40102A) buses 900-949 acquired in 1988
I'm not sure about the GMC New Looks and Flexible New Looks BUT I can say that QSC had GMC New Looks and Flexible New Looks with a Red and Tan symbol on it. Buses 83-86 are Flexible buses. Bus 620 and 1491 are GMC buses and bus 460 was a 35 foot bus. Also QSC had one MC-9 bus 5881 and a couple of charter buses as well.
I hope this helps.
Ray
Thanx, helped out quite a bit.
Queens Transit, Steinway Transit & Queensboro Bridge Ry (what was left after Manhattan & Queens Ry was cut back to the bridge) were both managed by Murry M. Salzberg from the 40s.
[MCI Classic Suburban (TC40102A) buses 900-949 acquired in 1988]
Subsequently we acquired 950 to 954 from Liberty Lines. They had a GFI farebox with a swipe slot (it was one of the test being done before the Cubic model was decided upon). They are all still running just fine thank you !
Mr t__:^)
Yeah but buses 950-954 were acquired in 1995 according to the busweb roster. He/she wanted buses from 1991-1992.
Ray
[Yeah but buses 950-954 were acquired in 1995 according to the busweb roster. He/she wanted buses from 1991-1992.]
That is correct ... I made my comments for two reasons:
1. All our MCIs didn't come in the late 80s.
2. But all were mfg. in 88
3. The Liberty group are model 2G9YT82 vs. others are TC40102
(what's the difference ... sorry don't know, they look the same)
Mr t__:^)
do anybody here have any info on governs.
I would like to know that is there any bus and/or train service to Reading from Phily? Is SEPTA is going to have service go up to Reading one day?
Thanks alot!
Capitol Trailways and Bieber Bus Lines operate a few round trips every day between Philadelphia and Reading. Oddly enough, there is more service between New York City and Reading than there is from Philadelphia to Reading.
Is the SVMetro going to go to Reading when it is finished?
i svmetro is not sopposed to be done up the next two or three years.
new flyer d40lf(aka patkylekenny)
If SEPTA can get their act together fundingwise (a tall order, because this is SEPTA we're dealing with), yes.
Here's a link to Doylestown DART Website. And also I have a photo of a Doylestown DART Bus witch I would try to post it up sometime this week.
http://www.doylestowndart.com/
As recording to NJ Transit Yahoo Club. NJTransit is getting New Flyer D60's and D60 Suburbans. I not shure how many they order. BUT they comming by 2003 or 2004 at the most.
No kidding ,Trevor mentioned that many moons ago on this site.Thatand they are getting the the RTS Super Suburbans as well.
I believe that information is true, The Super Suburban I heard was replacing the 1989 Flxible Metro-B's, when I dont know.
What are RTS"s Super Suburbans?
Robert
Single Door RTS-WFD (Wide Front Door) buses similar to the Chicago RTS buses.
OK that Explans it. Thanks
Robert
So if NJT is getting a new fleet of artics, then they must have already scrapped the Euro looking ones. They were frequent visitors to the PABT back in the day, but I never got to ride in one.
The Volvo artics are not scrapped - the 60 suburbans and 46 transits (4 were lost in the Big Tree garage fire some years back) all pound out daily duty today as they have for the last 15 years.
Of the 4 orders Volvo delivered in the US, the NJT artics saw the most work, and have been on the road the longest. Volvo has worked closely with NJT keeping them on the road, and that relationship extended to the Nova RTSs.
My bad. I knew it was a familar make, but I wasn't sure. I'm glad to know they're still on the road. The last time I saw one, it was laying over on 10th Ave near the PABT.
Will these Super Suburbans finally come with Detroit Diesel engines, in light of the current problems NJT is having with their current Cummins - powered RTS buses?
That's what NJT is using in their fleet of RTS buses? I was wondering since DD engines don't sound like that.
The NJT RTS fleet is equipped with a C8.3 Cummins diesel, the same engine in the Flxible Metro D fleets (with the exception of those 1966-1975, which have the DD50 engine).
That means that maybe NovaBus offers Cummins engines as an option for the RTS instead of the DD engines. Are they equipped with Allison five or six speed automatics?
Neither. The NJT Novas and Metro D buses have a 5-speed ZF Ecomat transmission.
A change of pace from the favorite DD/Allison combo I see. Who makes the Ecomat anyway? Fuller and Eaton-Spicer are the only other two manufacturers of tramsmissions that I know.
A Cummins C8.3?? Then what type of engine is currently powering the un - repowered Orion Vs? I thought that was the C8.3.
The 1993 TA unrepowered Orions have a 6V92TA engine, however a few (in the 290s) have a C8.3. The CNG Orions (from 1994-95) have an L10 engine.
Cummins Engine is not the problem, it's NovaBUS shoddy fast ass work on the buses causing the issues with our NovaBUS RTS T80-206s and T60-206s.
The Engine is fine!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
If that's the case, why am I always hearing they are at Cummins? Wouldn't they be at the vendor, NOVA. And really Trevor, if they were as bad as you make them out to be, why would NJT even consider buying more RTS to replace the venerable Flxibles?
Good Point!
NJT's Novas are "always at Cummins" for the same reason NYCTA buses are "always at" Atlantic Detroit Diesel in Lodi and Piscataway NJ: warranty work and service contracts. Unlike the good old days, today's diesels are computer controlled, and the factory shops have the correct diagnostic equipment to properly determine what is or isn't wrong with an engine - saves the operator hours of trial and error when they could be working on scheduled maintenance.
Nova finished delivery of the 1999-2000 RTSs for NJT a full six months ahead of schedule - the contract gave them from June of 1999 until December of 2000, but they were all on property by June of 2000. Understandably, when you rush like that, there are bound to be build problems. The 1996 RTSs were not made in any rush, plus 50 of them were well broken in at the Atlanta Olympics before ever seeing a New Jersey street.
Depending on how the earliest of the D4000s are doing, NJT may ask MCI to slow down a tad with the remaining batches if they think there have been quality issues.
Actually, there's a reason behind that: for example, our 1994 Gilligs were always at Western Branch Diesel here in town as opposed to Hayward, California. More than likely, your RTSes fall under the same situation as our buses; they are in for drivetrain-related warranty work.
Our 94 Gilligs were the first year for the mandated Series 50/Allison 5-speed automatic combo; for the first few years, their trannies were parctically falling out in the streets. I hadn't seen that many pools of red liquid since I saw the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It was bad. So bad that Gillig had to extend the warranty on the whole bus for another two years. And as a result, Valley Metro has decided to switch to Cummins for its next bus order.
-F.
Out here, Suffolk Transit operates newer Gilligs with the Detroit engine/Allison six speed. I do know that a few of the 9600 series got new six speed trannys. Maybe it was for the problems you described. The new trannys are so much better. The shifts are nice and firm, and the engine stays in its power band. The original one was not as firm and the RPMs were not in the optimum range.
We ain't got no damn choice that's why. Orion is in some Financial problems right now, NABI is currenty not accepting new orders as they are backed up, Neoplan FORGET IT: NJT is not having it, Same for Gillig. So who does that leave, NOVABUS! We ain't happy about it BUT what can we do!
Secondly, Our buses are NOT always at Cummins, just like MTA and everyone else has buses at Detroit Diesel, preventative maintenance and warranty maintenance. Now I never said ALL of our Nova's were bad. Just our newer order is crappy, just like the TA's last order. Our 1995-96 Nova's are basically flawless. Read my post in entirety before making such a comment.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Don't get snippy with me just because I DARE challenge Trevor Logan. I read almost everything on this damn board so get YOUR facts straight before you come at me. I'm not just going to let you shit all over me because you may be in a fucked-off mood. You check your personals at the door junior. Now, let's get to business.
First of all, I've heard numerous times on this board that the new 99-00 NJT Novas are always at Cummins. Why, I don't know. Yet, you would think that if it's a BUILD QUALITY problem, they would be at the vendor, NOVABUS, and not getting warranty engine work done at Cummins. Hmmmm. And DUH! I know that TA buses get warranty work from DD, I READ THE ROSTERS AND THE BOARDS!!!!! Come on man, you got to do better than this!
And please son, you make NJTs Novas sound like they were the Grummans NYCTA/MaBSTOA got back in 1980. And we all know they're not THAT bad. But you know what? Thanks to Grumman shitting it up in NYC, the RTS got a chance to prove themselves in the big apple and everyone JUST HAS to follow the NYC trends. Now you have 16,000 RTS roaming around including in NJT (when they're not getting warranty work from Cummins that is). Well, thanks Grumman.
Oh, and if the build quality is just SOOOOOO bad on those buses, why not try sending them to NOVABUS insted of Cummins? Last I checked Cummins was into engine maunfacturing, not heavy bus repair. But hey, maybe you could fill me in, eh?
1) Wasn't getting snappy, I can but its not worth it!
2) Detroit Diesel / Cummins does more than Engine, work....Prime example: Detroit Diesel is doing Cosemtic work on the Vikings, engine company HUH????? Cummins is doing cradle work on the NJT Nova's, Nova comes to DDC and Cummins and helps with the problems over sending buses back to New Mexico, I've said THAT countless times, I have just done better!!!!!
3) Hate to break it to you BUT Our 1999-2000 Nova's ARE the TA Grumman's of the new Millennium.
4) I have worked on the Nova problem personnally SO, I know what is going on with our Novas, none the less!
Source: NJT Fleet Ops.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
New Jersey Transit Maintenance/Bus Operations Employee
>>>3) Hate to break it to you BUT Our 1999-2000 Nova's ARE the TA Grumman's of the new Millennium.<<<
Then where's the pulling of 637 buses?
You've just answered you own question, 2 post ago,
BUSES ARE AT CUMMINS, NOVA IS AT CUMMINS, ATTEMPTING TO SOLVE TO PROBLEM!
Just Like Nova is at Detroit Diesel working on Hybrids and other problem buses.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Also when you come at me with:
"And really Trevor, if they were as bad as you make them out to be, why would NJT even consider buying more RTS to replace the venerable Flxibles?"
You were basically asking for a snappy response from me, I'm not making them out to be bad, they are making themselves out to be bad.
If I have my facts straight, you live in Texas.
I work with, work on, drive and deal with the NJT Nova's on a close to daily basis. So I know what the dillio is on these buses. Its not like I live in West Bumfuck, NY and just think I know everything about the NJT Novas, I work and breathe around these shits.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Bravo. But until they're pulled in mass quantities (hundreds at a time) I'll assume they're doing an adequate job. They are RTS after all.
BTW, please don't try to pull out that old "You don't live in NYC you don't know shit" BS on me. Not even on the sly. I know enough son.
How Much Do You Know, Since You Know It All? How old are you again?
1) Do You Live In New Jersey?
2) Do You Drive These Buses on a Daily Like I Do?
3) Have You physically worked on a Nova, Mechanically, Like I have?
4) Are You A New Jersey Transit Employee?
4) Do Yee See These Buses or Have EVER Seen these buses in Person?
If you can't answer ALL of those question, The don't try it! I can pull it because its valid, I wouldn't dare try to bully you on a Houston METRO topic, so don't try it here!
K I A = D K S
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Sheeze....everyone is backed up? That's not good! It doesn't surprise me that Gillig is...they have been sending Phantoms to everybody and their MOTHER in the past few years.
-F.
That is true, however IIRC, Trevor had said that NABI had the inside track for the NJT order.
Something I took notice of this morning.
X12 sign says
X12 W. Midtown
X12 via Church
via Madison
Ok here's what I'm getting at.
I know the X12 terminal is on the west side of Midtown - but the bus runs up the east side on Madison.
Why leave the sign saying WEST Midtown?
Why not change it to Midtown/57th Street - like the X27/28? Since if one had never taken this bus before and wanted to go to east midtown and saw west midtown, would not get on?
The reason why the X12 has "WEST MIDTOWN" is because it goes to 11th Av and WEST 57th ST. That's why!!! So does the X14. The majority of the buses from Staen Island uses Madison Av rather than 6th Av like the X1, X6 X7 and X9. The X12 and X14 go straight up Madison to 57th St and down 57th St and terminates between 10th Av and 11th Av. The X10 and X17 have "EAST MIDTOWN" because they terminate at 2nd Av and 57th St and pick up at 3rd Av and 57th St.
Ray
Great news, folks; I will be placing a diecast Baltimore MTA Flx Metro on eBay this afternoon. The bus is a customized Road Champs version and will feature detailed lights and trim. Happy bidding!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
http://bus38.online.fr/indexeng.html
I came across this quirky little site while surfing the web. It is maintained by the drivers and dispatchers of line # 38 of the RATP transit system of Paris, France. The English is a little stilted but understandable. If you click on "The buses" you'll get a picture and description of the type of bus that is used on the line. Also, on the top of the same page is a photo of a British double decker bus which when clicked on will send you to a page that shows photos of buses from other cities that have a # 38 line. They ask that anyone with a photo of a bus with a # 38 headsign forward a picture of that bus to their site. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the only NYCTA bus line with that number is the B38 (Ridgewood, Queens to Downtown Brooklyn via DeKalb Ave.)which operates out of Fresh Pond Depot. If anyone has a photo of a B38 bus, they would appreciate receiving it.
And Q38 also. I have a photo of a SEPTA NABI #5041 on the 38. I have not scan it in yet. So I would send it to them.
And the buses on the Paris Route 38 are nice buses. Witch MTA got those buses instead of th ORION 7.
Thank you DHF60, what an interesting website! I've actually been on Paris Route 38, but quite a number of years ago. Visitors to Paris hear so much good word about the Paris Metro (justly deserved) that they fail to realize how nice the Paris bus system is. For visitors to Paris, travelling by RATP bus is a great way to see many parts of the city. For bus fans, Paris's buses are great to study, ride and photograph. One of my favorite bus cities!
I've been on the Paris transit system, both subway and bus - the buses have backward-facing seats!
This visit to Paris was part of our visit to London, Paris, and Amsterdam and the entire trip was made on mass transit (including the Eurostar and Thalys trains). European transportation generally seems superior to American transit. But there is one particular observation that seemed interesting - lack of air conditioning in city transit vehicles. It was mentioned here that London tube trains had no A/C, even the newer ones. In Paris, there were what appeared to be brand new buses, without A/C. The weather in London was very pleasant when we were there but Paris was a humid mess and the bus rides were torture!
Then you have Amsterdam - the complete opposite of every American city transit-wise!
Can you imagine a city in the United States where automobile traffic was BANNED from the downtown area, and streetcars ran frequent service down wide cobblestoned streets hand-in-hand with pedestrians and bicycles???
AND people smoke weed openly? ;-) (Okay so that's not much different than here . . .)
Your welcome. You're right about the Paris Metro. When I visited there in 1978 I traveled around exclusively on the Metro. I remember seeing the RATP buses but unfortunately never set foot on one.
The Renault Agora V2 looks like a very nice transit bus to drive. If you're interested there's another website dedicated to Paris's city bus system. It's completely written in French but you get the idea of what's going on. It's a very thorough and well thought out website. You could almost call it the French equivalent to TransiTalk. The URL is as follows: http://busparisiens.free.fr/accueil.htm
My god, where are the RTS?! How dare they operate a system without them?! Don't they know it's dangerous?! The humnaity, the humanity!!!!
LOL! The RTS's are at the bottom of the River Seine where they belong.:^)
Because my wife finds Metro stairs and zig-zag transfers difficult, we used Paris buses quite a bit in April. Courteous drivers, but the "Controle" staff are grim. We liked the low floors. The big surprise is how the route map shrinks after 8:30 p.m. and on Sundays. That http://bus38.online.fr site is fantastic. Thanks for suggesting it.
The northbound Paris bus 38 travels along congested Rue de Sebastopol. It passes a crowded inexpensive internet cafe, EasyEverything, the chain that is also on the south side of 42nd St, west of 7th Avenue. When I stopped off there and checked out nycsubway.org, I discovered that French keyboards are not QUERTY, but AZERTY-- a few letters and punctuation marks in different spaces.
I note that neither Nassau nor Suffolk county has a bus route 38. Thanks for mentioning the 38 also on DeKalb Avenue.
Hi to the NYC bus drivers!
We are very happy to read your messages in 'BusTalk' about uour line and site. Thank you for the interest.
Driving the bus in New York City must be a kind of experience!... Brooklyn and the Bronx and Harlem and Manhattan are huges and famous districts. Compared to this, Paris must be like a country village!...
If anyone of you are coming to Paris, let us know, we'll be glad to welcome you aboard our buses, depot and city... and do not hesitate to contact us thru the site.
Best regards from the bus 38's drivers.
http://bus38.online.fr
I was watching Cops one night, and while they were arresting a guy in Jersey City, I saw three buses go by. One was a RTS, couldn't see last two numbers, but I saw the first two, 15. Another one was a Flxible 870, or at least a new generation Flxible. New windows, LEDs, roof mount a/c, aluminum wheels. One more RTS went by, but I couldn't see the number at all. Funny thing was that all three of them were in a orange and white livery. I do remember seeing buses at JS in orange livery that go to Bergen Ave. Maybe it's a private bus line. Can anyone clarify what I saw?
Bergen Av Bus Co is a private operator, the only one in Jersey City that uses an orange stripe. Their drivers are apparently ex-SEPTA trolley operators, as they seem unaware that they have the ability to bring the vehicle to the curb!!
So that clears up that mystery. They got some nice equipment. Thanks for the info.
I only caught the last half of that particular COPS episode (my girlfriend insisted on watching "Big Brother 2"), but I can tell you that the RTS in the last segment of that episode was indeed a Bergen Av IBOA bus. I wish I could confirm the others, but I can't...
The first one was a IBOA, but I couldn't make out the livery of the 870 Flxible. I could only see that it wasn't NJT spec.
According to FDNY's Hudson and Essex Bus Info pages (http://community-2.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT/NJHUDSONANDESSEX), the following is the Bergen Avenue roster. As you see, they run both the RTS and Flxible buses you described.
BERGEN AVENUE IBOA
1989 Flxible Metro B Suburban (40096-6T): 3192
1994 Flxible Metro D Transit (40102-6C8): 1750, 1766, 1768, 1773
1999-2000 NovaBus RTS-6B (T8O-206): 1240-1244, 1523-1531
Cool. The numbers on the first RTS looked like 1527. I wish IBOA would put bus numbers on the sides. I could barely make it out even though the bus slowed down through the camera shot. I'm guessing the next generation (my name for them) Flxibles are the second ones on the roster.
I seen that episode of cops, and I too saw the buses, they are in fact Begen Ave Novabus 1524 and Flxible Metro D 1768.
Tone
Transitworld.org
So the Flxible Metro D must be the one that I call the next generation Flxible. Looks so much better than its predessor and the SWB ones out here. This question may be considered trivial, but do you know if the IBOA RTS has driver operated or passenger operated rear doors? I think driver operated is standard on the RTS, but the passenger operated seems to be the preferred choice.
While riding the Lirr shuttle bus to Jamaica, aboard PA1751, I spotted Green Lines 1012 going east on Archer Ave. by York college. I had to do a double take on that one, did not catch the route, or run #. I noticed the rear, and it had the white "pork chops" and the smaller AC condenser grill on the rear. It was definitely RTS-2 1012 back from storage, possibly due to a service crunch. What a lucky day to see 3 awesome classic buses (PA1773, PA1751,& GBL 1012) on the same street same block, just several feet away from each other. Long live the 20yr old RTS!
1012 is a training bus for Green Bus Lines. I rode it right before she was retired. I believe it was using a 6v92 engine instead of 8V71. All of the other 1000s are in Command Storage awaiting their fate.
I think 1012 is an RTS-03.
Q60#1012Gary
Yes, those GBL buses (1001-1015) were RTS II-03.
Wayne
Do you know if GBL RTS 10001 is still in revenue service? She was a frequent visitor to the Q10 route around the way.
Saw her today on the Q6 going to the Post Office. She was former GBL 221.
Q60#10001Gary
...has been spotted repowered and repainted at the corner of 125th and Lexingtion on the M101 northbound, at 8:45 PM. So Zerega is now putting out a call for MV TMCs to come, eh?
It's ALL the TMC buses across the city.
Ray
So when you say ALL TMCs - that means 4600-4899 too???
No, 8000-8396
4600-4899 will NOT get REPOWERED. 8000-8396 and 8401-8564 will be the only TMCs that will get repowered. Had 8375 today on the Q46 and she was spitting a lot of black smoke out of the tailpipe. Still no # board in the rear.
Q46#8375Gary
Can somebody tell the characteristics of every RTS model, from the
RTS - 01 to the RTS - 08? If not, does anybody know where I can get photos of each model?
Along that same line, what about the Orion Is through the Orion Vs? (I know what the Orion VI looks like, and what the Orion VII is GOING to look like.)
I suppose that I am semi-qualified to provide a response to this inquiry:
RTS-01 (produced 1977)
-Slopeback
-Left front door panel only had one window (that on plane with the main windows)
-Right front door panel only had two windows (both except the lower one)
-Two fins on the front bumper
-License plate holder not part of front bumper
RTS-02
(some sort of experimental model, possibly the intended designation for the RTS Articulated)
RTS-03 (produced 1978-1980) also known as RTS-II
-Slopeback
-Doors and bumpers changed to current design
RTS-04 (produced 1980-1986)
-Squared back as a result of modified a/c system
-Minor structural changes from RTS-03 model
-First model with option for flat, outward-opening rear doors
RTS-05 (produced 1985)
-Similar to RTS-04 with a T-drive configuration
RTS-06 (produced 1986-present)
-Cosmetically similar to RTS-04 model
-Minor structural upgrades from RTS-04
-Introduction of more generic body parts including framed windows
RTS-07 (produced 1993)
-Wide front door (second release, see below)
-Short wheelbase
-Rear door moved up one window position
RTS-08 (produced 1990-1999, redesignated to RTS-06 WFD after 1999)
-Wide front door
-Three different versions:
*First release had the wide doors and a front end that look reasonably similar to standard-door RTSs (1990-1992)
*Second release looked like the first from the bottom of the windshiled up. Headlights and bumper were reconfigured and looked like nothing ever before seen on an RTS (1993-1996)
*Third release disjoints the destination sign area from the windshiled, and restores headlights somewhat similar to a standard RTS but with a swollen bumper that makes the headlights look like they are drowning (1996-present)
Photos of the RTS-01, RTS-02, RTS-05, and RTS-07 are hard to come by. There are only two RTS-07s active; I am trying to get pictures of them as they are at work for my local TA.
Orions:
Orion I (produced 1980-1994)
-Derived from TMC Citycruiser model
-Odd styling originally seen with a large, bulky one-piece front door
-Later units offered an enlarged destination sign area
-Square headlights available on later models
-30, 35, 40 foot models
Orion II (produced 1984-present)
-Small, low-floor vehicle with front engine
-Destination sign casing available as option
-Early user of roof-mounted a/c
-22 and 26 foot models
Orion III (produced 1985-1988)
-Articulated bus produced jointly with Ikarus of Hungary
-Tractor engine configuration
-Purchased only by TTC and OC Transpo
-Major corrosion problems reported by both customers
-Artic split close to 40/20
Orion IV (produced 1988-1991)
-Custom-made coupled units for tour operator in Niagara Falls area
-Powered by alternate fuel of some sort
Orion V (produced 1989-present)
-Intended for Canadian properties
-Interesting indented drivers window
-Common bus for early applications of CNG testing
Orion VI (produced 1996-present)
-Cessation of production is imminent
-Offered with three possible door configurations
-Considerd to be a failure
Orion VII (production slated to begin in 2001)
-All signs are pointing to failure
-Intended to replace Orion VI
Actually, all production RTSs are called "RTS II" - I have the 01 operators manual from GMC, and the nameplate undeed says RTS II. The RTS-I would have been the 1976 Transbus, had it ever gone into production. The RTS-02 was never produced - it was simply a cross between an 01 and an 03. The artic's model numbers were 04s (R10204 and R20204). I'll scan some of the RTS series next time I do catalogs - probably next week.
WOW...the TransBus? I've gotta see a picture of this! I assume this was the RTS prototype rolling through the streets of YC between 1975-76? I MUST know MORE!!!
-F.
Here ya go. This was GMC's submission for the federal Transbus program, which failed miserably (thank goodness). There were also prototypes from Flxible and AMGeneral.
WHOA!!! Oh my GOD that thing is weird looking..it makes the RTX look almost NORMAL! From those tiny wheels to those funky lights...it looks flat out STRANGE!!! Is that the one that was on the streets of NYC in 1975 and 76? Whatever happened to the Transbus?
-F.
The short version is, Transbus was the federal government's attempt to design a bus. The USDOT came up with a set of specifications that would be a federally-mandated vehicle - in other words, any TA that received federal assistance had to buy the Transbus, and only the Transbus. The specifications included low floors, air conditioning, wide doors, and wheelchaier accessibility.
GMC, Flxible, and AMGeneral were invited to send prototypes. As you see, the GMC version had a strong resemblance to the RTS, but the Flxible version looked nothing like the 870/Metro (the pic I had is gone from my collection, but I'll try to track it down again.) The AMGeneral version was thought to be what they would have made had they stayed in the market with the other ADBs.
After the feds saw the prototypes, they issued the final specs, and put out a bid for 1000 units - the stipulation being, the buses had to be a fixed price (like a car - no TA-specific equipment was allowed), and the manufacturer had to assume full liability for the vehicle's failure, if any. Remember, these buses would be an untested design - no such thing as Altoona in 1976.
No one bid. Not GMC, Flxible, AMGeneral, Flyer, MAN, Volvo, or anyone else who was invited. They refused to accept full liability for a radical design like the final Transbus specs. And that effectively killed the program.
Hmm...sounds like the Transbus thing would have been pretty Orwellian. With that information, it's a good thing it got killed off. Otherwise, TAs would not have such a great diversity of equipment. Washington is a prime example of our country's freedom of diversity in buses, which makes us unique from the rest of the world.
And who knows, the government-designed buses may have very well failed FAR beyond belief...even to a point where the Grumman fiasco in NYC would have seemed minor. And then the fat cats might have had a free hand in everything, from automotive design and business solutions to, well...everything. As I said, without choice and diversity we would have gone Orwell. And let's hope to God that never happens.
-F.
The RTS-I would have been the 1976 Transbus, had it ever gone into production.
I don't know which is the correct explanation, but someone posted here a while ago that the roman numeral refers to the number of axles; the RTX/TransBus would have been RTS-III (and RTS-I would have to have a pretty even front/rear weight distribution :)). Unfortunately, a qucik check of the archives didn't lead me to that post.
[I don't know which is the correct explanation, but someone posted here a while ago that the roman numeral refers to
the number of axles; the RTX/TransBus would have been RTS-III (and RTS-I would have to have a pretty even
front/rear weight distribution :)).]
This is true. UMTA's Transbus specs included 3 axles. My guessing is that GM had intentions of producing the Transbus as the RTS III-0X and the regular RTS II-0X to any agency who did not want the transbus. My understanding is that had the transbus been successful - any transit agency using federal funding for new buses would've been required to purchase one of the transbuses.
Wayne
>>>My understanding is that had the transbus been successful - any transit agency using federal funding for new buses would've been required to purchase one of the transbuses.<<<
Too bad that didn't carry over to the RTS and to a lesser extent post 1985 Flxibles. Orion never would've had a chance.
Wait a minute...I thought the Orion I came out in 1977? Can anyone confirm?
Also, the early RTS WFD is the ONLY one that matters to me as it looks better than subsequent versions.
Is it just me, or does the slopeback RTS look weird after being surrounded by later versions? I used to think they were the best looking RTSes ever produced but now they look just plain weird to me after seeing mostly squarebacks. Just seems like something is missing in the scenery!
Also, the RTS-07 must look different as the symmetry of an RTS is quite a difference usually what with the closeness of the rear wheels to the back bumper; kinda reminds me of short-wheelbase Dodge Caravans.
As always, opinions to my points of view are welcome!
-F.
[Orion I (produced 1980-1994) -Derived from TMC Citycruiser model]
[Wait a minute...I thought the Orion I came out in 1977? Can anyone confirm?]
I'm not sure about the precise date, but my recollection is that the TMC Citycruiser model was based on an Orion design. It could be that TMC (which was a Greyhound subsidiary) built the Citycruiser before Orion produced any of its Orion I's. But I'm pretty sure TMC got a license from Orion to produce the Citycruiser.
That sounds right; from what I understand, the Orion I came out in 1977 (albeit a bit dated looking compared to the then-new RTS). From the looks of the I, you'd think it was much older. The same held true for the Bluebird City Bird.
-F.
Yes it came out in 1977 in Canada aswell . It was call Ontario Bus Industries which produced the bus in Canada under that name and U.S it was produced by TMC...later Ontario bus industries was renamed Orion .
That's correct; ironically, there is a pop culture reference there. Star Wars also debuted in 1977, and since the bus was made by OBI (Orion Bus Industries), you could say it was OBI-1! Say it with me now...OBI-1....Obi-Wan.....
-F.
Yes yes we can see that the FORCE is with you ... now back to BusTalk.
Mr t__:^)
LOL...yes, back to BusTalk, where Gilligs are known as The Phantom Menace.
-F.
Here is the skinny mates:
1) These are renumbered Orions #5570 and 5571.
2) These are not originally Ride-On's Buses, these two buses were 1995 Demos that visited properties in Canada and are Canadian Spec.
Hope this clears the air on these two buses!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
8405 & 8415 out of FLA.
B46#8405MikeLimited
B49#8415Mike
8405 and 8415 have been done for quite some time now. Off the top of my head, other FLA repowers include, 8130, 8330, 8402, 8404-8405, 8407, 8414-8419, 8422, 8424, 8427, 8430, 8433, 8436, 8448 (or is it 8449?).
Mark
Add 8352 to that list as I saw her on the Q46 today in front of 623.
Q46#8352Gary
Mark:
Add 8156 to the list. I have not seen 8130 in awhile.
B2#8156Mike
I was looking at the New York Times newspaper on microfilm and I saw an article about the Grumman Flexible's that the MTA use to have. The picture was showing the Grummans lined up side by side at the Brooklyn Navy Yard and bus #856 was the first and that bus was from the MABSTOA bus. It had "Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority" and on the bottom was the bus number 856. All the buses were there. I also saw a second picture of a GMC New Look bus 4801 picking up passengers as more of a back up to those Grummans. I thought that those Grummans sounded like the buses that NJT has or had but those are or were rebuilt buses (NJT's 1500-1619 and 2000-2518). I was told that the NYCTA Grummans sounded like the Flexible New Looks (7000-7999, 9000-9309?). Anyway, I do remember that Queens Village, Coliseum, 54th St, East New York and a few more had those buses. I defintely remember the 200's in Brooklyn (236-248 in East New York), the 400's in Staten Island (450 in Castleton) and 600's and 700's in Manhattan (624, 677 from 54th St and 647, 721 from 132nd St?). I guess the 800's and 900's were in the Bronx. Anyway, I need help---can somebody give me a good roster of were those Grummans were before they were taken out of service. The roster can be the latest like when they were all in service last or at least Jan 1984. It would be grateful to me. I miss those Grummans. I remember that I rode a Grumman from the Jamaica Bus Terminal to 169th St and Hillside Av (I use to live up the hill on 169th St---two blocks north of Hillside Av).
Ray
If I remember FP had 300's(non w/c)and 500's(with w/c lift)
OK, here's the complete Fresh Pond Grumman roster. Fresh Pond's original order was 322-342, PA71-PA77. PA70 arrived when 526-533 arrived. Fresh Pond later recieved more Grummans from other depots, including from Flushing(CS) when they where divided between Grumman and RTS depots. These arrived to FP as follows: PA78-PA85, PA6-PA23, 209-229 and MABSTOA's PA131-PA137. One note, the 500's were short lived at FP and were transferred to another depot.
I could have swore we had up to 535 because I remember getting her on the 57 at Flushing & 61st.
It's possible 535 was at FP. I never saw 534 neither but they both may have been along Metropolitan very infrequently.
I miss the Grummans too; we had our 1979 models until 1994 here in Roanoke. They looked better than the Gilligs that replaced them by far. In fact, our museum has restored Valley Metro no. 186; every time we take it out, our riders tell us it looks newer than the buses that replaced it!
-F.
Where did you got the Newspaper from?
Probably the local library.
We have New York Times microfiche here in Roanoke as well; also, that is where I found articles on our local Grummans and other buses. In fact, my computer went out to lunch yesterday, so guess where I'm typing this from?
Let's face it..for busfans, libraries rule!
-F.
I was looking at the New York Times newspaper on microfilm and I saw an article about the Grumman Flexible's that the MTA use to have. The picture was showing the Grummans lined up side by side at the Brooklyn Navy Yard and bus #856 was the first and that bus was from the MABSTOA bus. It had "Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority" and on the bottom was the bus number 856. All the buses were there. I also saw a second picture of a GMC New Look bus 4801 picking up passengers as more of a back up to those Grummans. I thought that those Grummans sounded like the buses that NJT has or had but those are or were rebuilt buses (NJT's 1500-1619 and 2000-2518). I was told that the NYCTA Grummans sounded like the Flexible New Looks (7000-7999, 9000-9309?). Anyway, I do remember that Queens Village, Coliseum, 54th St, East New York and a few more had those buses. I defintely remember the 200's in Brooklyn (236-248 in East New York), the 400's in Staten Island (450 in Castleton) and 600's and 700's in Manhattan (624, 677 from 54th St and 647, 721 from 132nd St?). I guess the 800's and 900's were in the Bronx. Anyway, I need help---can somebody give me a good roster of were those Grummans were before they were taken out of service. The roster can be the latest like when they were all in service last or at least Jan 1984. It would be grateful to me. I miss those Grummans. I remember that I rode a Grumman from the Jamaica Bus Terminal to 169th St and Hillside Av (I use to live up the hill on 169th St---two blocks north of Hillside Av). Oh, I know that the Grummans were out of service on February 8th 1984 but I saw that picture in the February 9th issueof the New York Times Microfilm at my college---Southampton College in Southampton, Long Island.
Ray
If I am not mistaken all 3 Queens Depots had Grummans.That and the Grumman Fiasco led to the Blitz re-build program and the fishbowls lasting until the mid-90's(or at least the 2nd group of Orions:the 1st taking the flxible New looks out of service)
You mean Fresh Pond had all the 300's and 500's.
Ray
I don't think Jamaica and Flushing (Casey Stengel) had Grummans. I can not pictures them at those depots.
Ray
Flushing originally had Grummans along with RTSs as with the other depots but later became all RTS. FLU had some upper 300's as well as upper PA70's to PA80's. They might have had some 500's also. QV had 500's.
I remember the PA series,200's,300's and some 400's operating out of Ulmer Park Depot. I was on them when they first came out. When the grummans were pulled, they used ex WMATA buses. What replaced the Grummans out of ULP?
Ulmer Park received GMC's from other Brooklyn depots. I recall the WMTA buses were used only on Staten Island for express bus service and at the old 54th Street Depot in Manhattan. I recall them being used on the M106(now M42) 42nd Street Crosstown. I am not sure but i believe Amsterdam may have had some buses too.
Thank You
Ulmer Park recieved older G.M.C buses that they had before they recieved the Grumman Flxible buses.They wre pulling them from the the storage yard next store.They also got some 8000's from other depots. I remember waiting 45 minutes for a B-64 coming home that first day.I caught a 8000 on that line with Bat wings. The bus was filthy and slow I also miss the Grummans also.
I saw 8005 (batwings removed)on the B1 on along Bay Ridge Ave. at that time. BTW, I was several blocks away from that Army Terminal lot during the moment all the Grummans were taken out of service and being sent there. Now that was an amazing sight to see hundreds of Grumman buses comming from all points of the city to that one site. They were arriving in convoys of 10 continuously. Along with the convoy of Grummans, some RTSs were used to shuttle the drivers back to their respected depots. It was odd to see an OA 2200 RTS in Brooklyn at that time.
Yes, Amsterdam did have a bunch of WMATA buses.
Wayne
First the correct spelling has only one "E": F-L-X-I-B-L-E.
When the NYCTA/MABSTOA took delivery of the Grumman Flxible 870 buses - they basically came in three groups. First is what I used to call the "regular" buses that were non-PA, w/o wheelchair lifts (TA 201-449??? and OA 601-810. Next the "PA" units (also) w/o lifts PA1-PA175 and finally the lift equipped buses which were high 400-500 series for the TA and 811-910 for OA.
All of the buses had the DD 6V-71N engine which is the same engine every other TA/OA new look (expect Flxibles 9155-9164, they had the DD 8V-71N). I thought they sounded very similar to the 1977 Flxibles (9000-9309), but the sound was different enough to distinguish between the two.
200 of the TA/OA 870's were equipped with w/c lifts. When the Grumman crisis started these buses had not yet been delivered to the NYCTA. They were retrofitted prior to delivery to the NYCTA and actually arrived in early 1981 along with the rest NYCTA buses (637) that had been removed from service in late 1980.
Originally nearly all TA/OA depots received the 870. Exceptions were WF, OHS, XT and FI. Soon after the 1981 (837) GMC RTS II-04 were delivered (again to nearly all depots) the TA started creating what I called "Grumman" and "RTS" depots. The result was instead of having nearly all depots having both 870 and RTS ADB's - each depot would have only one type of ADB. COL, AMS, FFS, QV, FP, UP were amongst those depots that became "Grumman" depots. KB, OTS, ENY, FLU, FLA, JAM and OFS were amongst those that became "RTS" depots.
I hope this clear up the picture for you.
Wayne
Wayne,
The GMC-RTS buses were purchased only because the TA was having problems with the Grummans after they hit the property in 1980.
Grumman had an option to deliver additional buses in 1981 but because of the strutual problems on the original order it was agreed that the TA will be allowed to get out of the option as long as they retained the original buses.
The reason that the following depots did not receive Grummans were as follows:
West Farms and 100th Street-they did not fit (believe it or not)
Crosstown-was outdoor storage only. the heating system that was used in the winter was unable to be used on the Grummans
Flatbush-they were having a tire test and could not use the so called new look buses. only the fishbowls.
In 1982 the TA deveoped the concept of all RTS or Grumman. Don't forget the TA still had lots of GMC and Flixible fishbows on the property.
Thank You
Barry,
Yes, I did hear that there was a problem with the Grummans fitting at WF and OHS. The funny thing is that WF & OHS didn't get any of the 1981 RTS either. We know that WF closed soon afterward and OHS eventually got a bunch of 1983 RTS's. In Brooklyn, that was FI (Fifth Ave) that didn't get any 870's.
Also, when the TA started with these all Grumman or RTS depots I realize all of the depots had plenty of new look GM and Flxibles - which is why I threw in ADB. I remember it well as I was a teenager living in the Bronx at the time. The good part is that I had a bus pass and after school when I was studying I spend plenty of time riding the buses.
Wayne
If I'm not incorrect, Fifth Ave.(Gleason) was one of the depots that didn't receive the 1981-1983 RTS order. I think their first order of RTS's were the 3400's. I remember watching the news on TV and seeing them being prepped for service.
That's correct.
Wayne
Yes you are they were3400 to 3487 I remember because it was a exciting time on 5th avenue because they did't recieve any new buses for years before that.
For a time, the QV depot was exclusively RTS when they retired the rest of the Fishbowl remans back in the mid 90's.
Wow...I didn't know the NYC order carried over into 1981! Which fleet nos. were these?
-F.
It only did because of the whole Grumman crisis. When the NYCTA pulled 637 buses from service in late 1980, there were still 200 more buses with w/c lifts to be delivered. Since all 870's already in service had to be returned to Grumman to have their A-frames strenghtened, this delayed the delivery of the remaining NYCTA buses. The were the high 400-500 series for the TA and nos. 811-910 for OA.
Wayne
Oh, I see; so they were actually 1980 models? Or was production delayed until 1981? Let me know; I'd like to find out.
-F.
Yes, they were 1980 models. I'm not sure, but I believe all 200 had been built but they were parked at Grumman. My thoughts is that theyt may have needed some finishing touches before delivery and Grumman chose to deal with the buses that were returned first. I could be wrong - just a thought.
Wayne
That could be a possibility; makes sense to me.
-F.
KB - 721-770, PA141-PA159, 870-890
COL - 771-809, PA160-PA175, 891-910
I can only remember partials for the other depots.
Wayne
I do not mind if you do not give all the buses. I just want to get an idea about where the buses were. thanks for the info on the Bronx.
Ray
OK Here's some info that I can (vaguely) remember about Manhattan 870's.
OTS - 630-665 (Approx)
HUD - 601-615 (Approx)
FFS - 616-629 (Approx)
AMS - 697-719 (Approx)
OFS - 666-696 (Approx)
Later the buses from OTS and HUD went to FFS and buses from OFS were sent to AMS.
Anyone remember when the 400/500 & 800/900 w/c lift buses arrived. The TA was so desparate for buses that many of these went into service without radio/radio antennas and license plates.
Wayne
Okay, I assuming that OTS and OFS means 126th St and 146th St Depots? I'm not familiar with those TA/OA codes for the depots. Anyways, thanks for the information.
Ray
Oops! I apologize. Actually OTS is 132nd Street. At one time the fareboxes on TA/OA buses used to have a two or three letter abbreviation of the depot it was assigned to next to the farebox number. I (and some others here) tend to use those abbreviations. I'll list them here. I didn't list some depots such as Manhattanville, Gun Hill and MJ Quill because these names weren't used at that time, Gun Hill didn't exist and Quill was a Greyhound depot at the time.
KB - Kingsbridge
COL - Coliseum
WF - West Farms
WAL - Walnut
AMS - Amsterdam
OTS - 132nd Street
OFS - 146th Street
OHS - 100th Street
FFS - 54th Street
HUD - Hudson
MAN - 126th Street
QV - Queens Village
FLU - Flushing
JAM - Jamaica
XT - Crosstown
FI - Fifth Ave
UP - Ulmer Park
ENY - East New York
FP - Fresh Pond
FLA - Flatbush
EW - Edgewater
YUK - Yukon
CA - Castleton
Wayne
What bus routes did Edgewater have because since that fire in 1978, Castleton got ALL the routes until Yukon opened in 1981.
Ray
I'm not familar with SI routes at all. Once in the late 70's I did ride the S2, which I believe is the S51 today and it was an Edgewater route. I'm sure that one of the other Bustalkers can into SI bus routes.
Wayne
Okay, you just know MABSTOA (Manhattan and the Bronx). Cool.
Ray
The old R2/S2, now the S51 was NOT an Edgewater route, but a Castleton Route.
OK - then let me put it this way... Sometime in the late 70's I boarded the S2 (GMC T6H-5309A #6112) on Bay Street and rode it to the Ferry - and the farebox had the letters "EW" on it.
Wayne
do u guys think the hold the license for 3 years requirement is the same? I need to know before i get my hopes up!!!
someone post layta
'
or email me at paulroach2001@yahoo.com
Yes it is. I have a friend who just got called in again. TA had called her earlier in the year but she did not have her license for three years and they just called her again. She will start training very soon.
You're not gonna get called for like 2 years anyway so you have plenty of time. Of course u do have to be 21 also.
Currently, DD has two engines available for buses and trucks, the Series 50 & 60. Which one is used in buses anyway? I think the 50 is for buses and the 60 is for trucks.
Actually Detroit Diesel has a full line of engines for buses
Series 30 (Small Bus and Hybrid Power)
Series 30G (Natural Gas Version of S30)
Series 40E (Bus [Used in Nova LFS Demo #995])
Series 50 (Bus and Small Truck [i.e. Fire Truck, Garbage Truck])
Series 50G (Natural Gas Version of S50)
Series 60 (Heavy Duty Bus, Truck, Marine)
Series 60G (Natural Gas Version of S60)
Hope this helps you!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Thanks for the info. I not well versed in the full DD engine line obviously.
Don't feel bad. I've been into buses since 1977 and I'm still learning. You never stop gaining knowledge!
-F.
Thanks for the kind words. And you're right.
Does the Series 60 sound similar to the 50? Just curious.
-F.
To me they sound somewhat alike, but if I listen closely I can usually distinguish between the two.
Wayne
That's correct. Also, the Series 50 is a four cylinder (!) while the Series 60 is a six-cylinder. Oh, if only we could get a Series 60 in transit buses....
-F.
Wow, the Series 50 is a four cylinder?? I have been out of the loop for WAY too long. I need to get more brochures from bus manufacturers.
Yeah...a LOT of people do a double take when I tell them that. and it makes sense; the early Series 50s sound like gigantic lawnmowers, at least in a Gillig.
-F.
me and my family went to pick up my dad, a bus operator from Queens Village depot, and we were traveling down Jamaica avenue. Last time i saw the Q36, it said Floral park, 257th street. Back to Jamaica it would say Jamaica, 165th street term. Now it says Q36 to Floral park, 257th, via Jamaica.
Even the Q76 now says via F.Lewis
Surprising it doesn't say via Jerhico being that its running on the Nassau side of Rt 25 after Queens Village.
I have a few questions on the continuing closeness of the two agencies.
When did they first starting exchanging busses?
Routes?
When did they stop marking MABSTOA on the busses?
Yes but they're just DBA (doing business as the TA), they're still MaBSTOA ... just as a union member of the MaBSTOA.
Mr t__:^)
The exchanging of buses between OA and TA pretty much didn't happen prior to 1980. After the early 80's right up to the present TA and OA buses transfer between the two divisions regularly.
MaBSTOA is still very much alive internally. The 1983 GMC RTS were the last group to have MaBSTOA decals.
Wayne
[The exchanging of buses between OA and TA pretty much didn't happen prior to 1980]
Technically, this is not true. Sometime not too long after Mabstoa took over the FAC routes, many of the TA's TDH-4510's (4000-4499) started finding their way over to Mabstoa to replace some of the real old buses inherited from FAC/Surface. When these 4000's were placed in Mabstoa service, they were given a "T" before the 4-digit number so they wouldn't get mixed up with some of the 4000 series buses that existed in the Surface Transit fleet. Also, I'm quite sure some Mabstoa old looks were transfered to TA routes; I believe some of the 2600's and 3200's ran in Queens and/or Brooklyn. I don't remember off-hand if any new looks were exchanged, although I believe some 9000 series Flxibles were. The earliest RTS transfers I remember are some of the low numbered 1981 Mabstoa buses being sent to Queens Village.
Yeah like buses 1200-1275 (GMC RTS-04). I remember riding bus 1275 on the Q44A now the Q46 back in 1982 or 1983!
Ray
[Yeah like buses 1200-1275 (GMC RTS-04). I remember riding bus 1275 on the Q44A now the Q46 back in
1982 or 1983!]
????????????
I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
Wayne
Ray, You are mistaken on the RTS 1200 to 1275. These were TA buses. MABSTOA buses started at 2200 .
I do not recall if the TA sent MABSTOA any buses at the beginning but i do recall some MABSTOA TDH's being sent to Brooklyn Depots in 1969 when buses were needed to beef up the B-54 Myrtle Ave route out of Fresh Pond Depot to replace the Myrtle Ave El which ceased service in October 1969.
These buses were used to the Flibile 4000's came on the property late 1969 and early 1970
Thank You
That's why I said... "The exchanging of buses between OA and TA pretty much didn't happen prior to 1980" ... because I knew there had to have been a few exceptions. However, I know that prior to that it was not a regular practice for TA buses to go to OA depots and vice-versa.
RE: 9000 series Flxibles. Yes, some of them did move between TA/OA, but again, this was after 1980.
Wayne
Saw this one this morning on the M6. Interesting thing.
Engine sounded like it was repowered, BUT NO PIPE???
Is this possible???
It could be. On July 4th, I saw bus 8509 and that had no black smoke but it did sound like it had a new engine.
Ray
The pipe was probably recessed underneath the rear bumper. The 8400 series RTS didn't have a high mount exhaust pipe yet. And all engines, CNG, methanol, or otherwise, need a pipe to get rid of the spent gases.
An easy question for you guys. I already know a bunch but I need to compare. Out of all the 1997-1998 NOVAS (Buses 9350-9699) and Orions (101-316) can somebody give me a list of those buses that have been REPAINTED not repowered. Does anybody know if the 1998-1999 NOVAS (Buses 4900-5249) have been REPAINTED yet? Thanks!
Ray
I can't give you the first list as I no longer live in NYC and I don't visit more often than once per month. You can tell if NYCT has painted an RTS by looking at the top half of the doors. If it's still black then NYCT has yet to brutalize it. If the top half is painted white... then they've repainted it.
Wayne
Thank you!!!
Ray
If I was to invent an express route from Queens to Manhattan via Brooklyn and I want to use the Belt Pkwy to the Gowanus Expwy, can the buses use the ENTIRE Belt Pkwy or they must get off and get back on where? Thanks.
Ray
Because of a weight restriction on the Mill Basin Drawbridge, buses are not permitted on the Belt Parkway between Rockaway Parkway and Flatbush Avenue.
David
#460 and #464 are now in the NEW Paint Job.
30 Orion5 #460
45 Orion5 #464
And also #470 as well.
Yesterday Morning.
I saw #619 on the 7 Line(New Rochelle-Mt Vermon-Yonkers). I have saw that bu on Friday on the 42. On friday when I saw #619. It have a Ad and Rooftop A/C(Like any Bee Line MAN.). And when I saw #619 Yesterday Morning. Things change on that bus. The Rooftop A/C is GONE! and a REAR Ad is gone also! So I think that's a sign of the MAN's are going and it also show's #619 ready to Retired.
So I got a Question. Are any Bee Line Neoplans in service yet? And should we do a trip on the Bee Line MAN's?
And here's the weadest thing happin. One time back in February of this year. A MAN Articulated was running the 66 Line(New Rochelle-Scarsdale-Dobbs Ferry.)! It's RARE to see a MAN on 66! 66 use to run RTS's until 2000. Then it ran Flxibles with a Orion5 sometimes comes in. Ridership on 66 is LOW. So they could have put FORD Vans on 66 after RTS's where gone!
Bee Line MAN SG-310 Articulated NEVER GOT THE A/C UPGRADE.....So you NEVER saw that bus with a A/C!!!!!
I REPEAT, 619 NEVER HAD THE HVAC UPGRADE!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Relly? Then I got mix up with #618 then.
I know it was back in 1978 but what month and day? Does anybody know? I'm trying to find it on the microfilm.
Ray
Then use the newspaper stories index. You've asked this question over and over and nobody has answered you.
Nothing has changed.
Hey, don't be a smart ass! If it was in the index then I would not be posting this message. Would I?! So, if nobody know it then fine! Im know it was 1978 but to go through 24 rolls of film (Jan 1-15, Jan 16-31) and so on until Dec 31 1978 will take a long time. I was trying to find a short cut. Thank you!
You're not looking in the right place. The index will list all stories for the year. It's a book about the size of Webster's Collegiate.
Are you looking in the Staten Island Advance? I doubt it made any other papers.
-Hank
There is no SI Advance on the microfilm. I was trying to find it in the N.Y.Times because they have the film.
Ray
Then you're going to the wrong library. Try the New Dorp branch of the NYPL, or the Advance themselves. Their morgue will have what you're looking for.
-Hank
I highly doubt a pier with buses on it falling into the bay is NYT material, especially if there is/was bigger news nad no injuries or loss of life.
wasn't it like 1981 anyway?
Try posting your question in news:nyc.transit using Google Groups, or your own newsreader. There are many there with historical backgrounds and such. I'm sure someone there will have your answer.
I saw it today. It was on the B100 route. The paint job looks very good, and there was no sign, just a pasted B100 piece of paper on-plus the run number said 100. Looked good.
per official Bulletin SD-289-01:
A paid SHuttle Bus will run from Grand Street to the Canal Street Complex.
Route:
North on Centre Street(J platform exit). East on Grand Street. South on Chrystie Street to the Grand Street Station entrance. West on Hester Street. South on Bowery. West on Canal back to Centre Street.
The bulletin includes a Neighborhood map of the area and it looks like Grand (S) andf Bowery (J/M/Z) are around the corner from each other(East end of Bowery near North end of Grand Street). I am surprised the are not looking into building an enclosed free transferand thusly save the need for Shuttle Buses.
see seperate +E-Mail..plase
Any word on which depot will operate the shuttle.
[Any word on which depot will operate the shuttle?]
The shuttle will be picked work out of Hudson. The route is designated "MCS" (for Manhattan-Canal Street).
On Chrystie St,,via Chrystie St,Right on Hester St,Left on Bowery ,Right on Canal St,,Right on Centre and STOP..Continue Via Centre St,,Right on Grand St,,Right on Chrystie St and STOP
HUDSON DEPOT
Run on to Centre and Canal
via West St,16 st,9 av,14 st,Broadway,Canal St,Centre St,to terminal at east Curb far side of Cana;
Run off from Centre
via Centre,
Anybody know the word on those darn ho scale new look buses? I know someone here said the end of summer, or during the summer. I'm just curious.
Q60-#5508-Orion V
Q53-#3067-Orion V-CNG
Q35-#1160-RTS TMC
B2-#4879-RTS TMC
No word yet; I still, however, have some 1:64 scale New Looks now available in the following paint schemes:
-NYCTA
-TTC (Toronto)
-WMATA
-METROBUS (Miami-Dade)
-SF Muni (San Fransisco)
-Blacksburg Transit (VA)
-Valley Metro (Roanoke, VA)
-CTS (Cleveland, Ohio)
-Staunton Bus Service (VA)
Also, I have Flxible Metros available 30', 35', and 40' versions; colors include:
-Minneapolis/St. Paul
-Cleveland RTA
-Baltimore MTA
-Blacksburg Transit (VA)
-WMATA
These are also available as Grumman 870s, whose colors include
Valley Metro (Roanoke, VA) and NYCTA (100-900 series).
Let me know if you or anyone else may be interested in these or other TA versions!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
I just was watching WB News at 10:00 PM and they had a story on New York New Flyer D60 artics.
I shocked by the riders who just kept on putting down the D60 ...man they should visit Toronto one day and see the Orion III artics which were going to the scrap yard but returned for service, then they would know what is crapy:)
One person complained about access on the bus ..oh boy man that person should visit Toronto and see all the non-accessible New Looks...I never thought people would want to ride a accessible bus.
I just wonder why there getting more artics if they tend to end up in accidents ??? I guess maybe the 40 footers are too small .
People are idiots plain and simple.Here these people want more seating on the buses,so what does the NYCTA do,they by over the road coaches and artrics to accomadate to the riders with more seating .However when they start riding them these same people whine like babies.Maybe for site the city should operate some of it low -floors on some the heavy routes(they only seat 38)and maybe they will stop complaining then.
Are the people complaining about the busses themselves, or the fact that once these D60 New Flyers and Over the Road Coach Busses are implemented, service is usually cut?
Shaun
They're bitching that the buses aren't as safe, and that it's harder for disabled persons to use. Total bullshit, especially since the Artics don't require disabled users to:
A)Use the back door
B)Sit in the back of the bus
As for accidents, I have seen all of 3 accidents where the TA bus was at fault. One was an MCI collision with the barrier on the Gowanus, the others were collisions with a fire truck and a elevated pole. I'm sure there are others, but the majority of accidents with transit buses are due to negligence on the part of the other driver.
-Hank
A common-sense solution to the accessability/seating capacity issue:
45-foot long low-floor transit buses.
Bro, I just don't think so!!!!!!!
The Public are whinning ass bitches, they ask for shit and when they get it, the bitch some more, I saw toss a C40LF or a Orion VI on all the Artic and MCI Express route to set thier ass straight!
GOD I WISH I WAS IN CHARGE OF MTA MANAGEMENT!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Well, if you were in charge of management, don't you dare toss an Orion VI on the Bx 22. Before the 5000 series D60 got here, B/Os were frequently leaving people behind and bypassing stops all throughout the route because inside our RTS, THERE WAS A HUMAN CRUSH! I hope the D60s are here to stay. Let OA figure out how to run those things in snow.
As for disgruntled riders: If service was cut for new buses, I fell your pain. Otherwise, SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!
First of all, do we know their riders? Or are they just looking for media attention so everybody in New York could see their face? Also, some people just want to make the MTA look bad, similar to Staphangers who can have some good arguments but nit-picks too much if you know what I mean.
Sonds like some of the same people that complain about the system being dirty and then they leave their newspaper and Mickey D's garbage behind.
Wayne
Y'know? Let me leash out this shit before I have a nervous breakdown trying to explain myself:
1) "There are more people standing on these buses"
BULLS**T! Think about it, despite the cutting of service on the M79, M86, and M23, how can those buses have more people standing IF THEY ARE DESIGNED TO HANDLE LARGE CROWDS?????? THERE SHOULD BE LESS PEOPLE STANDING ON AN ARTIC (the only exception being the Bx12), NOT MORE!!!!!!!!! Y'know something? Know what I think? HALF OF THE PEOPLE THAT RIDE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE DAMN ARTICS IN MANHATTAN DON'T EVEN RIDE THE BUS ON A DAILY BASIS, OR EVEN ONCE A WEEK! These people ride cabs, limos, and private cars more than buses, and then THEY GET TO SHIT COMPLAIN TO THE MTA ABOUT SOMETHING THAT THEY DON'T EVEN DEAL WITH EVERYDAY????? Sometimes I think Manhattanites, especially Upper East Siders never like ANYTIHING the MTA does. AWW, TO HELL WITH THEM!
2) "They get into more accidents than regular 40-foot buses"
"...they might actually pose a danger in the wintertime..."
Accidents? Accidents? Where, only on 23rd or 79th? Okay, maybe 79th, yeah, but other than that, they are only saying this because either a)they like their 40-foot buses and they want the TA to stick to that, b)these non-frequent riders and crazy Manhattan drivers have nothing else better to do than make a scene or cause distractions, c)79th Street/Park Av is a very accident-prone intersection, or d)they want someone to tell them to "go f*** themselves" (please excuse my language, I'm a little angry)
3) "...motorized wheelchairs cannot fit in through the front door..."
Before I saw "well, it's not the TA's problem that you can't fit your s***box chair in through the front door," I'm just going to say that a certain size chair can fit in an artic or ANY bus for that matter. A motorized chair cannot fit too well in the rear of a 40-foot bus just as much as fitting one on in the front of an artic. So what are they talking about? THAT'S WHERE PARATRANSIT COMES IN! USE THAT, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, IT'S DOOR-TO-DOOR!
Well, that's about it for now. More later........maybe not. (Keep the tiger in, CWal, keep it in)
CWalNYC
LOL! Great job CWalNYC! I couldn't have said it better myself. People who live on the Upper East Side and Upper West Side of Manhattan are the biggest whiners and complainers on the face of the earth! I deal with these asswipes every day and bear the brunt of their arrogance and sarcasm. You have to understand that these jerkoffs have led pampered lives and are used to getting things there way. After all, don't you know that the universe revolves around them? They're used to their doormen and concierges kissing their ass and running to address their every need. They come on the bus with that same attitude but I don't deal with it. I tell them to kiss my ass in Macy's front window if they don't like it. Regarding the New Flyer artic's, the TA should tell them the same thing. I guarantee you that if the artics are removed from 79th Street and they have to pack into RTS's again they'll be bitching and moaning again. It must be a genetic defect that makes them predisposed to whining about every damn thing on earth.
AMEN BROTHER!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Well I for one wouldn't mind being packed in an RTS. That's the way things should be. *Sigh* if it weren't for those damn artics, NYCTA would have about 500 extra RTS right now with more on the way.
Amen to that. I'm soooooooo glad I work in Da Bronx, we don't have that problem with the whiners, As for the Artics, I belive they handle turns just as good as an RTS.
Those of us that work with the public know that you can't please everyone. I just wish they had a way to control the A/C on the Artics.
Don't get me started on UES/UWS riders. They don't know how good they're getting it (outside from the one D60 - for - 2 RTS swap). Does anyone want me to descirbe how they made my life on the Lexington Avenue local H*** for four years?
100% agreement.
This is something I find annoying.
As a daily Express rider, I hate it when all the people care about is if there is a seat available. It slows the ride down when people get on the bus who look for a seat, realize there aren't any, and then get off to wait for another.
Understandably they want their $3.00 fare to get them a seat, but the purpose of the bus is to get one to work in Manhattan. JUST DEAL WITH IT IF THERE AREN'T ANY SEATS. I have ridden many buses, especially when going to high school where it didn't matter if we got a seat - it was to get us to school, the purpose of taking the bus. People have time deadlines to make, and if you want to procrastinate over a damn seat, gotta grow up and just deal with it and stand.
This is why I advocate the new ODK sign saying NO SEATS AVAILABLE - so people will know and read it - and only those that a seat doesn't matter should flag down the bus for a pickup.
The whole point of the express bus is to get a seat. That's why people pay extra money for it. If you don't want a seat, you can ride the subway.
From Staten Island?
I agree totatlly. In Jersey when our buses get full, we press Code 1 on the P/R of the ODK and the Sign will say:
STANDING ONLY
In addition the the regular destination sign code. The TA has a "Take Next Bus" code but it really doesn't say much, anything can be happening!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
[As a daily Express rider, I hate it when all the people care about is if there is a seat available. It slows the ride down when people get on the bus who look for a seat, realize there aren't any, and then get off to wait for another.]
At least they want only "a" seat! I've seen riders on the X92 (York Avenue - Wall Street) get on to look for TWO SEATS TOGETHER; some of them even call and complain when they can't get a double-seat!
>>"At least they want only "a" seat! I've seen riders on the X92 (York Avenue - Wall Street) get on to look for TWO SEATS TOGETHER;
some of them even call and complain when they can't get a double-seat!"
Now this I have to see to believe. I overheard a co-worker complain that they "...got those old buses, not the new ones that look like charter buses that go to Staten Island." on the X90/92. I just had to shake my head in disbelief as I'm happy when:
1) I get a seat on the X68 or the QM1.
2) The seat has something that you could call padding.
3) That relic shoebox of an Orion sent to QV courtesy of Castleton doesn't break down.
Actually the "stop and look for a seat before paying" phenomonon happens on the QM1 a bit too, that's why I'll sit in the back and hold up some sort of count (assuming counting fingers isn't below someone's dignity of course) as to how many seats are remaining.
Since speaking on seats and the X90/92 - you have some NOVAs, and then the REMANS. It would have been better if they took the plastic soft seaters from the retiring GMCs and put them in instead of soft padding on the regular 2x2 hard seats - at least they are higher for the backs of the people.
I went to the Commack, LI library last night and read the NYT article of February 9, 1984. The article said that David Gunn decided to pull all Flx's after their runs on 2/7/84. The announcement was made on 2/8/84 and in the next day's paper.
Therefore DOD for the 870's was FEBRUARY 7, 1984
RIP
And the rebirth in Jersey was in:
THE SUMMER OF 1986 BABY!!!!!!
Oh happy day, though most of these were DOD by 2000. A few still hang around the NJT properties for other uses aside from Historical Purposes!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Now THAT was a smart move on NJT's part. Those buses lasted them a long time, and all it took was a little work to get them just right. And they matched the existing Flx Metros perfectly, amking a nice, uniform fleet.
-F.
Yeah - I agree. I also thought it was a no-brainer and I became convinced that NYCTA management had no brains.
Wayne
In that respect, amen. They had perfectly good buses and just didn't know it. Kudos, NJT.
-F.
I remember it well. It was a sad day for me.
Wayne
I'll bet. It was sad for me to see our Grummans go in 1994, especially when they were replaced with a batch of clattery four-cylinder Gilligs that broke down more than the Roanoke and NYC Grummans combined.
-F.
I had my friend as a Bus Operator last night. I was telling him about the X80 and X84 codes. He punched them in and for a little bit we ran with it on. It was interesting to see the people seeing the sign for RANDALL's ISLAND, as well as the people seeing SHEA STADIUM. They did a double take on seeing this and asked the driver about it.
There's another code - it's either 9021,9012,9102,9201, or something (I know it's in the SUBWAY section) that brings up COASTAL STORM WARNING. The first time he hit the wrong one and we ran with #2 Train to 125th Street?? as well as SUBWAY SHUTTLE. He then got it right - and the emergency lights atop the bus flashed.
Anyone confirm the code??
Also, it would be nice if BUSMAN9293 would update his code site as well as making the link to eliminated codes work.
ok, I'll let you on a little secret now. That Coastal Storm Warning message only works on the 4900-5249 series buses.
BIG AL
Sorry BIG AL - I had an OrionV 6XXX - and also have seen it on MCIs OTRs
I forgot about those different type of buses. I meant the RTS's. The buses you mentioned have the latest Luminator sign computer model in them just like the RTS's I mentioned. Only that model Luminator can bring up that message. The earlier models in the older RTS's and maybe the older Orions can not display it.
BIG AL
Do you know the codes for the messages like Happy Holidays and others - If you could could you e-mail them to me with what they say.
Thanks!
The Happy Holidays was a code that worked on the old trans-dot or whatever it was called computer on the 1981 RTS's only. It was never programmed into any of the Luminator computers. Before I knew that, I remember seeing a bus in Brooklyn that said Happy Holidays and busted my rump trying to figure out how to bring it up on the buses I drove only to find out Transit didn't program it into the 1982 and newer buses!!!
BIG AL
Hey - we still have 2270 with that Vulton ODK dot sign on SI out of YUK. - Too bad I don't work for them and I could get in there and mess around with it since 2270 sits around now since schools out.
If you don't work for transit I would not advise you to go there and "mess around" with 2270. However, if you know somebody that works there then go with him and see if you can find the code for that message. 2270 should be able to bring it up. Since we haven't had any 1981 buses in Jamaica depot for awhile now, there are no more code sheets for that computer laying around any more. To be honest with you, I don't remember seeing it on the code sheets when we had those buses. There are not many other special codes I can think of that you can bring up other than the usual ones you guys see, and the one that says "training bus" and the Storm Warning on the newest style Luminators.
BIG AL
I've been playing with the sign since this message was posted. I still can't find the correct code for Coastal Storm Warning, but I had seen it on a Jamaica RTS last month while he was working the LIRR shuttle. That's possibly where it lies; somewhere close to the 9150, 9151, 9152, 9153 codes.
I've noticed that even if you get an "exceded range" message, that doesn't necessarily mean that there are no more codes after that number. There's space between many codes.
I found the program for "Shuttle to.... Grand St" and "Shuttle to.. Canal Street Sta" (both consecutive with "exceded range surrounding them), but the Dunkin Donuts napkin I wrote them on was lost LOL! I'll post them tomorrow if I find them again.
I am hoping to print a listing ,,here==shortly
My material is current to 2001 May
the lists you are looking for from the Subway listing ( sans the code numbers) is
STORM ROUTE
COASTAL STORM
EMERGENCY ROUTE
RECEPTION CENTER
EVACUATION CENTER
TO SUBWAY
well, we all thought that SEPTA was fantasic (not) but here's something interesting. The Paratransit, (which SEPTA so graciously pays more than it's required to) has horrible service. On the news, people said the pick ups were as late as 2 hours! And the funny thing is that SEPTA had the nerve to raise fares!
They are having problems down here in DC, too with Metro Access. There was a huge article in the Post the other day. They only charge $2.20 per trip, but the contractor that runs it is overwhelmed and not prepared to handle the volume. Metro isn't helping much by the way they're handling things. I think that paratransit service was thrown into play so quickly because of ADA, that they didn't take the time to take into consideration what was invovled. All they knew was that the Feds were forcing them to provide the service.
In the 1970s when the B21 was still running, it used Avenue Z to Sheepshead Bay Road where it went down to Emmons, the B36 used Neptune/Emmons from Ocean Parkway to Sheepshead Bay Road.
My question is: When the B21 was eliminated in 1982 and the B4 extended to replace its Sheepshead Bay section, did the B4 start running along Neptune then, or did the B4 and B36 switch later? Because the 4 doesn't take the direct route from 86th to Ocean Parkway via Avenue X like the B1 but instead uses Shell Road and Avenue Z, it seems that the B4 may have continued along Z. The B21 did not operate west of Ocean Parkway.
The Southwest Brooklyn switch took effect in November-1978 when the B-21 and B-34 buses were eliminated. The changes that were made were as follows:
B-1-From Shore Rd/Bay Ridge Ave to 25th Ave/86th St via then B-34 route. From 25th Ave/86th St to Ocean Pkway/Ave X via then B-1 route.
From Ocean Pkway/Ave X to Ocean Pkway/Ave Z new routing and from Oceam Pkway/Ave Z to Mackenzie St via then B-21 route
B-3-Extended on 25th Ave from 86th Street to Harway Ave replacing B-3 and B-34 service.
B-4-From Narrows Ave/77th St to 25th/Stillwell Ave via current route then via Stillwell Ave,86th Street,Shell Rd,Ocean Pkway,Neptune Ave(here replacing B-36 service to Sheeepshead Bay Station) then via Ave Z ,Ocean Ave and Narrows Ave replacing B-21 service to Knapp/Voohries.
B-36- Rerouted from Ocean Pkway/Ave Z to Sheepshead Bay Station via old B-21 route. Balance of B-36 route was not changed to Nostrand/Ave U. Sea Gate bound buses were same route till Stillwell/Surf Ave then via Stillwell,Mermaid,W.21 St,Surf Ave to stand. Return via W.37th St,Canal Ave,W.33rd St,Mermaid Ave,Stillwell Ave,Surf Ave.
B-49-rerouted from Ocean Pkway/Ave Z to Sheepshead Bay Rd/Emmons Ave via old B-36 route.
At the same time the following changes were made:
B-11 Extended from 18th Ave/49th St to Rkway Pkway Station
B-50 Extended from Rkway Pkway Station to Coney Island Ave
B-74 24 Hour service discintinued. Service ran from 5AM weekdays 7 AM weekends to 9PM only.
DEPOT CHANGES
B-3 From Ftatbush to Ulmer Park
B-11 From Fifth Ave to Flatbush
Hope this helps
Thank You
the actual date for all you bus trivia fans was nov.12,1978.
Of course now the B11 is out of Jackie.
Rode the N27 this morning, 9:05am to Hempstead 145. No A/C and the windows were locked. I had some really rough running 300s later in the day on the N74 and N20. Saw 351 broke down by Sears in Hicksville with maintainance truck on scene.
Those LI Bus engines run HOT, especially the CNG's (both DD and Cummins). It feels like air out of an oven when you stand by the engine, plus on the Cummins the rear seats will burn you.
Those buses are just beggin for an engien hosedown. It's not even a heat wave! When it 95-100 they'll be breakin down here, there, and everywhere.
CNGs do run hotter then diesels ... that's why the maint. dept. doesn't want drivers/maintainers to let them idle for a long time.
A engine with a overheat problem looks like a steam engine, you can't miss it.
Mr t__:^)
Not sure if this was addressed here but I've noticed at least one Orion at Bee Line with a modified scheme. The stripes run along the side the up and over the roof, ala the 1970's. There is also a "www.westchester.gov" logo just before the front door. Is Orion 445 the only one? Will this be the norm? Also, did they crucify the schedule on the W20?? This was always a line with extremely frequent service. Not today. Must have been perhaps 20 minutes or better between buses. Probably because I was out photographing!
JRC
OK - now that the "S" train from Grand Street to Broadway Lafayette will be extended to West 4th, and the "M" will now go back to running 5AM - 10PM, with the rest of the time a SHUTTLE BUS will be running from Manhattan to DeKalb, which depot will be operating this Shuttle. I think it was mentioned that HUDSON Depot was to handle the Canal - Grand St. Shuttle, so will they be doing the same?? or will one like JG or FLA run this one?
When will service start? Will it run weekends as well as nights? (The M doesn't even make it into Manhattan on weekends.) How often will it run? Will it charge a fare?
The only thing is what I know from Subtalk posts, which some have links to CBS 880 AM and NY1 News.
Here is a quote from the Daily News story yesterday: "The M will run weekdays from 5 a.m. to 10 p.m. A shuttle bus between DeKalb Ave. in Brooklyn and Grand St. will run — although not immediately — weekdays from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m." Sounds like it is weekdays only.
Speculation that the buses will be operated by Jackie Gleason Depot.
Flatbush is too far and too packed and the same with East New York.
I do not think the union will allow MABSTOA drivers into Manhattan which will rule out Hudson.
126th Street is possible but with the TA one only knows
Thabk You
What the hell are you talking about?
-Hank
They won't allow MaBSTOA drivers in Manhattan?
Then I guess the M15, 31, 35, 57, 66, and 116 are the only Manhattan bus routes!
No the TWU will not allow MABSTOA drivers to work in Brooklyn period.
Since this line will replace a subway route (Motorman and conductors are part of the same union) then the bus replacement will have to be TA-TWU only.
Work assignments have always depended on the unions that the TA inherited from the private companies.
And nothing will ever change that even if it snows in July.
Thank You
Arbitrators have confirmed that NYCT(A) has the right to assign work as it sees fit (this came up when it was decided to split the Q32 between Casey Stengel and Hudson). If a route travels between Manhattan and Brooklyn, and NYCT decides that it should operate out of Hudson, then it will operate out of Hudson with MaBSTOA Operators. If NYCT decides that it should operate out of Gleason, then it will operate out of Gleason with TA Operators.
David
David,
It does not work exactly like that. If the TA wants to change route assignements from one union to another it has to give up the same or equal amount of jobs.
When the Q-32 was split into OA(TWU) and TA(ATU-Queens) the M-22 was changed from TA to OA. This change while it reduced the number of jobs for TWU-TA 126th Street at that time made up for the M-31/M-58 merger the year before. The M-58 which ran from 72 St/York Ave to 8 Ave/57 St was an OA run while the M-31(a TA line) ran from 92 St/York Ave to 8 Ave/57 St. At the time of the consolidation the OA jobs were eliminated and were to be replaced by the M-22 jobs. The TA then decicded that the Q-32 was to be split. Again look at the total number
of jobs.
At the time the TA won the right to change job locations it still can not change OA drivers to TA drivers. But the TA can and always did have the right to reassign drivers from one division to another.
Thank You
Okay, let's see how to settle this debate...
[DAVID: Arbitrators have confirmed that NYCT(A) has the right to assign work as it sees fit (this came up when it was decided to split the Q32 between Casey Stengel and Hudson).]
[BARRY: It does not work exactly like that. If the TA wants to change route assignments from one union to another it has to give up the same or equal amount of jobs.]
Transit's reason for existing, as stated in its enabling legislation, is to provide public transportation in the most efficient manner possible. That may mean operating a given route directly, assigning it to the OA subsidiary, or a combination of the two. If swapping or splitting a route allows an equal level of service to be provided with fewer operators and/or buses (i.e. more efficiently), then the swap or split may occur. Period.
- - - - -
[BARRY: When the Q-32 was split into OA(TWU) and TA(ATU-Queens) the M-22 was changed from TA to OA. This change, while it reduced the number of jobs for TWU-TA 126th Street at that time, made up for the M-31/M-58 merger the year before.]
If the purpose of the second route swap was solely to "make up" for the first swap, then how does one explain the third swap (M35, M57, M116 to TA; M27/M50 to OA), or the operation of school work on route Q58 (TA-TWU) out of Casey Stengel depot (TA-ATU)? Again, Transit's purpose is merely to provide public transportation efficiently, not to rigidly maintain ratios of OA vs. TA-TWU vs. TA-ATU.
BTW, at the time of the third swap, Transit was in negotiations to develop a satelite system that would provide bus passegners with information in real time. The test case involved two corridors (First/Second Avenues and 57th Street) but only one depot (126th Street); hence, the M57 had to be moved. The other moves were intended only to improve efficiency.
- - - - -
[BARRY: At the time the TA won the right to change job locations it still can not change OA drivers to TA drivers.]
That's for current drivers; only the drivers themselves may make the choice to switch authorities, with the knowledge that all seniority in the originating authority is lost. However, Transit may assign NEW drivers to TA or OA as needs dictate.
You make one statement which is not correct.
The TA is civil service and jobs are obtained via a test. Once you are hired from the list you are TA period.
Now if the TA wants to convert MABSTOA into TA then all future job openings will be filled from the current list or next test and then
they can be assigned to an OA depot and route but they will be considered TA workers. It means that once all current MABSTOA workers either retire or quit then OA will cease to exist(It will take approx 25 years if no changes are made.)
However under the last contract it was agreed to consider the combination of TA and OA into one. RUMOR has it that this will be done when the last of Tier I drivers retire.
Thank You
Hard to believe there are still former 5th Ave Coach drivers...
-Hank
[You make one statement which is not correct.
The TA is civil service and jobs are obtained via a test. Once you are hired from the list you are TA period.
Now if the TA wants to convert MABSTOA into TA....]
Please go back to my post and actually READ it, especially the last point.
I stated quite clearly that Transit can move ROUTES from one authority to the other, but cannot move drivers. However, the drivers themselves CAN move - technically, they quit one and are hired by the other. While not common, it HAS been done; I once met a driver on the Q5 who WILLINGLY switched from OA to TA (and gave up a year of seniority), and I currently know a driver who switched from TA-TWU to TA-ATU, both in the interest of working closer to home.
-----
[However under the last contract it was agreed to consider the combination of TA and OA into one. RUMOR has it that this will be done when the last of Tier I drivers retire.]
The contractual allowance was for a Regional Bus Company, which could (in theory) have incorporated TA and/or OA and/or Long Island Bus and/or the DOT private carriers. So far, it ain't happening.
Hudson probably won't get the assignment. If it does, then not for long, since it is closing. That leaves MJQ and JG. Maybe JG can spare a repowered RTS for the runs (since I don't think management will want to waste valuable CNG on shuttles). Or, if the next batch of D60s gets here fast enough, MJQ can spare a bus or two.
Now that we are in 2001, why does QSC have Orions that utilize the Pull Cords for stops, instead of regular push tapes like almost all other buses? I understand the Classics have them, but the Orions?
I don't know, but some passengers, myself included, still prefer the pull cords. And -- perhaps not in NYC -- many other transit systems still use pull cords (or, in at least one case, used tapes and later switched back to pull cords).
Pull cords perform the same function, are much easier to maintain and are cheaper.
Peace,
ANDEE
Actually, tape lasts a lot longer than pull cords, that's why tape was invented in the first place. Cords tend to gain slack over the years, and often require a few tugs to activate the switch at the end of the cord. Cords also take a beating when the cord is pulled unnecessarily (if the Stop Request sign isn't working, for example), while tape can be pressed all day without the same wear.
Tape also has the advantage of superior location - you can put tape anywhere - above and between the windows, underside of package racks, above the aisle, at the wheelchair flip-seats, etc.
Cords can also go between the windows. The CUMTD's New Flyers have them. Buttons can be scattered in other strategic locations.
Yes, there are a few TAs in the US and Canada that use vertical pull cords of various styles. And NJT's new D4000s use the MCI-standard buttons on the underside of the package rack. My own fear of buttons is having them jam in one position, rendering them useless at that location.
But for parts and maintenance efficiency, tape switches tend to be cheaper over the long haul.
That's one thing I felt was a downgrade - small buttons instead of a long continuous tape from front to back, as on the MC-9's.
Tape switches are prone to some problems the pull cords dont have such as pinching. When installed the tape must be inside its track without any kinks or pressure. The pull cords had only a few connections to fail where as the tape switch has two wires for each switch. Finally the tape switch is a target for vandalism eg:a pin pushed through the rubber wikk short out the contacts.
On the up side the tape switch can be placed anywhere on the bus and it is not an item that normally doesnt wear out, and they are visually nicer looking than the pull cords.
>>> Actually, tape lasts a lot longer than pull cords, that's why tape was invented in the first place. <<<
It seems to me that the biggest drawback to tape is that it is not obvious when it not working through visual inspection. Therefore as a fleet ages, sections of tape may be non operational causing customer dissatisfaction. I have been on buses where the push strip near me did not work, but I had seen other passengers use the strip successfully. With cords, a broken cord is obvious, and a quick pull anywhere along the cord will tell if the circuit is operating properly. Some times low tech is better.
Tom
all of SEPTA's buses that are currently in service, including the new Eldorado Transmark RE's, have pull cords. SEPTA buses also have a red button on both poles next to the rear stairwell that light up the stop request button when pushed. the last SEPTA buses that I can remember to have the push tape are the 8000 series GM RTS's, which arrived in Philly in 1980. the pull cords are definitely a cost cutter for under-budget SEPTA.
push tape cord cost some many problems in
septa.
In the DC area WMATA as well as Ride-On uses the pull-cords too.
Wayne
As do all of the RTS's that the DOT ordered for the Queens bus carriers back in the mid-1990's.
Pretty much all of the buses used by both CT Transit and NB Transportation (NBT) still have the yellow pull cords. Lately, there's been one NBT bus who's system is screwy. It'll still chime when the cord is pulled but the "Stop Requested" light will inadvertinally pop on from time to time. :<
I remomber onec seing in a book on buses that GMC built two RTS's Artic. Won't it be nice to see Nova build a Actic vistion of one of the series and NYCTA buy them instead of the New Flyer. Any coment welcome.
Robert
As much as I like New Flyer, I would much rather RTS artics be rolling around NYC than NFI artics. It'd just be the natural thing to do. The whole concept of fleet diversity is overated. It should be all RTS and D40LFs in my book.
I was thinking about how cramped it is in the back next to the window. You have to rest your foot on the fender. What if NovaBus lengthened the rear so the riding public would have some decent knee room? On a long ride, that seat is not the place to be unless it's a soft one. It would be interesting to see a RTS artic though. If NF and Orion can do it, so can NovaBus.
I think a 60 footer RTS would be one bad bus. It's bad enough in a 40 footer version and a 60 footer would be one thing I'd not like to see.
I rather see a MCI Classic artic, which was already done :).
We also got have Neoplan and a Nabi artic's..that is if MTA hates them good looking New Flyers, they could try a NABI or Neoplan artic.
I wonder why the MTA or New Jersey don't invest some money and test them NABI'S ?
PACE(Chicagoland)has some nice NABI'S and there sweet to ride on, much better then CTA RTS's ..almost as good as my favorite bus; CTA Flxibles.
An RTS hater? It defies logic.
Its a natural law of physics. For every 5 RTS lovers, there has to be one RTS hater. Just keeps this planet from being bland, that's all.
That seat is a bitch. At least on the older RTS, you have a little window right there. On the newer ones, you have to use your imagination.
AAAAAAAGH! A 60FT RTS! WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO? GIVE ME A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN! A 40FT RTS SUCKS THE BIG ONE AS IT IS AND NOW YOU WANT TO ADD ANOTHER 20 FT OF MISERY! WHERE'S MY PROZAC? :^)
You mean another 20ft. of unmatched beauty and RTS know-how. :-)
You know, I have proof that you respect the RTS as bus.
The two RTS artics (models R10204 and R20204) were 56 and 61 feet in length. They prototypes were made in 1984 in hopes that RTS buyers would be interested in a high capacity vehicle that shared all the parts with their standard RTS fleet. Unfortunately at the time, most of the artics sold were of the "tractor-trailer" type, meaning they turned on a dime compared to the "rear pusher" RTS artic.
GMC tends to shred info about their experimental prototypes, so I don't know if the artic specs are available to Nova. Nevertheless, Prevost has artic experience with the H5-60, so it is possible an RTS artic could return if there was sufficient demand. Also remember that bus prices have nearly doubled since the early 80s. NJT's 1983 Flxible Metro A buses (1300-1464) were a mere $140K - the 1999-2000 Noca RTSs were over $250K. An RTS artic could easily approach $350-400K, depending on equipment.
True; New Flyer LFs run about $250K, with the Invero bringing in much more. Also, our Gillig order of 1994 was at 191K apiece for a fleet of 35-footers. Just think..in 1979 we got our fleet of Grumman 870s for 105K a pop...and that was a LOT in those days!
-F.
Oh Goodness... Please no. GMC did produce a prototype in two lengths. I'm so happy it didn't go into production. That would've meant even more RTS at NYCTA. Uggghhh!
Wayne
HELL YEAH!!! I'd LOVE to see a fleet of RTS artics in NYC. That would be SWEET!!!
-F.
I was watching the news last night, and they were saying that the NF artics were more prone to accidents than their rigid counterparts. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if you drive one in mass transit service, you know that you have to take your time on turns, and watch your mirrors. It would help if they had a steerable tag axle though, but that's wishful thinking. Overall, I wish the media would leave them alone.
Have articulated buses always been as dangerous as the critics say, or did they "become" dangerous only when Transit started using them on the M79?
According to NFI, the D60s are as easy to handle as a 40' bus, due to the "acordion belt" in the center. IMO, a B/O has to be more vigilant about how he steers that thing through traffic than he would an RTS. Other than that, the media hype about the danger of the D60s is just that, hype.
i know that the Neoplan AN46o are easy to handle like a bus.
I'd like to see the "stats" on that. What are these "accidents". Where are the artics more prone to these "accidents"? Worldwide in general or New York City in particular.ANd let's narrow that even further: which borough. bet ya' two to one that all the hype and so-called trouble is in God's country, Manhattan, where His chosen people complain about everything. These are the "egg heads" who can't be or will not be told what to do. They do as they feel. They are "Manhattanites". I've seen them in the bus and trying to catch one. It is as if buses had just been invented and they were new to the city. Funny. They seem to do just fine in the Bronx. And just about everywhere else.
I am very curious!
Joe C.
I don't see how the artics are dangerous, but they certainly reduced service significantly. The M86 often takes ten minutes to load at Broadway -- the first stop -- and some of those boarding passengers have to stand. Dwell time at other stops is also increased. Service is much slower than it was before. (The artics can move fast -- ride them late at night and you'll see -- but they're definitely second best when it comes to handling crowds.)
On the news that night, I saw a clip of a NF artic somewhere in Manhattan. It was a profile shot, so I didn't see the route mumber. But the area looked like it was somewhere uptown. I don't know what routes they are used for. I haven't heard any controversy about them until that night.
I just got back from Seattle, and drivers up there were complaining about the same thing, as they replaced almost all their M.A.N. artics with New Flyer D60's.
They said when it gets icy (as it tends to do there in winter) the NFI D60's, with their drive axles being the REAR one (as opposed to the center one on the M.A.N.), they have to creep around corners as the D60's tend to slide and over-bend.
They also said that Seattle Metro tries to get them off the street when it starts to get snowy/icy....if that's any indication of how "safe" they are!!!
i just passed by springfield and 120th avenue where the Q84 and Q77 meet, and the road is blocked. What did Console order Jamaica operators to do?
Having some time to kill before an appointment in Selden, LI, I went past the Thrift Body Shop, on Rte 112, in Coram, LI to see if they had any buses on their property.
I was tipped off about this place by Kevin Barsky in a private e-mail.
On the property today was:
1 - A freshly painted RTS in GBL colors numbered # 641
2 - A freshly painted RTS in GBL colors - no number on it yet.
3 - GBL Orion # 5534.
4 - Command MCI Suburban 465. This bus had most of its paint removed. A worker was manually scrapping off paint from the lower part of the bus. It appeared that paint stripper had been applied to the rest of the area. The stripper looked like the K-3 stuff I used on car 6688 at Branford last Saturday. The rest of the sides were down to the silver metal and there was no front windshield.
5 - An RTS in the shop. It was all white and probably just painted. No clue as to what its old company/number or new company/number.
One of the supervisors asked me why I was looking and I explained that I like buses. He said that "the boss" doesn't like outsiders on the property and I started to leave.
I also asked why the buses come all the way here from JFK airport, a distance of at least 55 miles. "Aren't there shops closer to the garage, either in Queens or Nassau or Western Suffolk?" I asked. He just shrugged his shoulders.
The shop apparently works on trucks, buses and vans. No cars. Saw a large Coca-cola delivery truck being worked on and a Conversion Van.
A Coca-cola truck and a Conversion van? What are they doing, converting the Coke truck into a Pepsi truck?
NJ TRANSIT HAS A NEW WEBSITE. SO FAR IT LOOKS GOOD. I WILL TELL MORE AS I USE IT
WWW.NJTRANSIT.COM
Route SM1 is scheduled to begin Monday. See www.geocities.com/ja_11203 for more information.
who is running this operation
Alcorr Tours
All Points Transit
Joel Azumah
More fly-by-nights with poor maintainance and insurance. Great.
-Hank
Is there any reason why the NYCTA can't implement North Shore express service via Brooklyn? What is Larry Hanley doing about this?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Ahem, excuse me. You're assuming that he would be interested in doing this. The strategy is to let someone else expend resources to build it before attempting to kick them off.
These are small operators, but can you say "destructive competition"?
The MTA has had ample time to do it, but it took some Gowanus construction to turn around the X31 back in 1995. Maybe the next phase might get more serious consideration.
Then you haven't seen this. A direct result from the attempts of these people.
It's a nycDOT route. The only way the TA would do it is if either DOT asked or walked away from the service.
I had heard that they had a better plan, but when the Mayor didn't announce it when he was in SI had assumed my DOT source was talking thru his hat.
Mr t__:^)
According to their safety record, they are on equal or better footing with Atlantic Express. Take a look at www.fmsca.gov.
Four dollars?? Do they take MetroCard?
There's an article on the front page of today's SI Advance showing Orion V 6188 in the background (pretty sure it's 6188) with a crushed bike in the foreground. Apparently last night right after the bus crossed over the SI Expressway via Hylan around 7:20PM, a kid was riding his bicycle in the road, and out of nowhere weaved out into the center of the street right into the oncoming bus, and was crushed to death at the scene. There were approximately 20 passengers aboard. The driver was treated for shock. Sad thing - especially since the article said that the sidewalk wasn't great over there so that may be why the kid was in the street.
My sympathy to the family that now has to cope with the death of their child.
I do mean to be rude but this should be the TA's fault right? My heart goes out to that family but why does the city do something about this? I know that area and that reminds me of the Grand Central Pkwy and 168th St. The sidewalk is---well---too high! So, the city should be responsible!
Legally, a bicycle without training wheels is a motor vehicle, and thus must follow all traffic laws that pertain to them. Riding on the sidewalk is illegal.
NYSVTL Article 34, specifically §1231
-Hank
[Legally, a bicycle without training wheels is a motor vehicle...]
I've seen signs on highway onramps which say "motor vehicles only". surely, bikes aren't legally considered motor vehicles, or else they could ride on the expressway. but you're right about the other thing you said: bikes have to obey all street signs that apply to cars and ride as far to the right of the street as possible.
I suggest you go to your local DMV office and pay the buck for the VTL book. Well worth it. Bicycles ARE legally considered motor vehicles, and as such are subject to regulation. Just as bicycles aren't allowed on limited-access highways, commercial vehicles are not allowed on roads designated as parkways.
-Hank
Which is why I either don't ride without a helmet or don't ride at all.
>>> Bicycles ARE legally considered motor vehicles, and as such are subject to regulation. <<<
There is no need to go to the DMV. The Vehicle Code is on line, and does not state that bicycles are considered motor vehicles. Bicycles are treated in Article 34, §1230 et sec. Specifically §1231 states:
"Traffic laws apply to persons riding bicycles or skating or gliding on in-line skates. Every person riding a bicycle or skating or gliding on in-line skates upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this title, except as to special regulations in this article and except as to those provisions of this title which by their nature can have no application."
It is interesting to note that I found nothing which specifically prohibited riding bicycles on sidewalks, or stated a minimum age for operation on streets.
Tom
Try §1238, where the law sets a defacto age limit of 14. §1231 uses the term roadway, defined in §140; and sidewalk is defined in §144 as being for use by pedestrians (Pedestrians defined by §130). It is thus inferred by the existing laws that bicycle riding is limited only to roadways; and thus subject to regulation upon such.
-Hank
>>> Try §1238, where the law sets a defacto age limit of 14. §1231 uses the term roadway, defined in §140; and sidewalk is defined in §144 as being for use by pedestrians (Pedestrians defined by §130). It is thus inferred by the existing laws that bicycle riding is limited only to roadways; and thus subject to regulation upon such. <<<
§1238 requires children under 14 to wear helmets. It does not regulate where they can ride. §1231 explains the rules when riding in the roadway, but does not say that is the only place a bicycle can be ridden. §§140 and 144 are definitions only and do not purport to contain an exhaustive list of those who can use a roadway or sidewalk.
The state does not regulate where a bicycle can be ridden, but New York City does. There are two somewhat conflicting laws:
New York City Administrative Code 9-176 states:
"Riding bicycles on sidewalks is prohibited. Bicycles may be confiscated."
New York City Traffic Rules and Regulations 4-07 (c)(3) states:
"Driving bikes on sidewalks is prohibited unless sign allows or wheels are less than 26 inches in diameter and rider under 14 years of age."
Using generally accepted principles of legal construction, that the more specific law takes precedence over a more general conflicting law, it would be safe to say that a child under 14 (wearing a helmet) can ride a bike with less than 26" wheels on a New York City sidewalk. Neither a younger child on a larger bicycle nor an older person, on a smaller bicycle may legally ride on an NYC sidewalk.
Tom
furthermore, §102 of the Vehicle Code defines a motor vehicle as:
"A vehicle which is self-propelled except one which is propelled solely by human power or by electric power obtained from overhead trolley wires, but not operated upon rails."
bicycles are propelled solely by human power, which means that they are NOT motor vehicles, which is what I said before. is there any part of this that you don't understand, Hank?
Again, for purposes of traffic law, bicycles are considered motor vehicles. The same rules and regulations applied to the operation of a motor vehicle are applied to bicycles. What don't YOU understand? On the road, a bicycle becomes subject to motor vehicle law.
-Hank
"On the road, a bicycle becomes subject to motor vehicle law."
That is true. But bicycles themselves are never, for any purposes, considered motor vehicles. They just don't fit under the definition of a motor vehicle.
this debate is stupid and not bus-related. let's end it here.
Found an article in Newsday which tells a different story of what the SI Advance had initially reported.
http://www.newsday.com/news/skybot/city/sunday/nd8575.htm
She's Repowered!!!!!!
B23#8561Mike
August 2 2001 - Proposals due for diesel-electric Hybrid bus purchase
August 9 2001 - Proposals due for articulated bus purchase
This info as per the NJT Procurement office.
what company are they going to order articulated bus
order from??
These are just the proposals from the various manufacturers, not the actual orders. NJT will look these over, determine which is the best proposal to meet their needs, then will negotiate a purchase contract with the winning manufacturer. You'll probably hear about the winners in late summer/early fall.
While i hop they choose neoplan for the artics. and new flyer for the the hydro-crap.
You will not see a Neoplan in NJT stripes anytime soon. Maybe when we're all flying around like The Jetsons. Neoplan sued NJT back in 1982 on the order that MCI won (for the first MC-9s). They haven't been best of friends since.
This is for the people who answered my question about the Grumman Flxible assignments. I know Wayne Johnson should be answering this question as well since he was one of many who answered. The list you guys gave me, was this the 1984 roster before they were removed from service or was this the four year spread because I'm going to e-mail the info to my friend who might publish this info in a book. I do not know the name because he won't tell me until the book is finished. Again, thanks for the info everyone!!!
Ray
Ray,
Since NYCTA had their Grumman 870's for a short time... they really didn't move around much. My next statement is a GENERALIZATION at MABSTOA - and for those folks who'd correct me... I realize there were exceptions. During the 70's and until the TA started receiving RTS... The newer buses generally didn't get moved around much. A few examples: In the 70's KB's newer buses were 4813-4832, 4860-4919, 7833-7852 & 9285-9299, COL's were 4664-4720, 4833-4859, 7853-7877 & 9160-9184, WF's 4600-4663, 7878-7917 and 9185-9204 and these buses stayed at their respective depots for many years before being moved around.
The Grumman 870's were pretty much move only once - which is when the TA decided to have each depot have only one type of ADB. I forgot which I had posted, but if KB was listed as having Grumman 870's then it was earlier than 1984. I believe everyone was posting original 870 assignments rather than their last assingments in 2/84.
Wayne
Thank you Wayne!
Ray
S79 Weekend Span Increase
Implementation Sept 2001
Leave 86 st 6AM Saturdays ,,630 AM Sundays
Leave Staten Island Mall
445 AM Saturdays ,,520 AM Sundays
------------------------------------------------
S51/S81 Service Revision Proposals
Implementation Fall 2001
430 PM to 630 PM
Evening Rush hour Limited Service
Stops at
Bay and Victory
Bay and Water
Bay and St Johns Av
NY Av and Coast Guard Drive
NY Av and Drum Road
NY Av and Marshall Road
Battery Road at the Air Force Reserve Blvd
Battery Road and Tennesseee road
Lily Pond Av and McLean Av
Capodonna Blvd and Sand Lane
and all local Stops to Grant City
S81 Routing
from Terminal via
Bay St,New York Av,Battery Road,Lily Pond Av,Father Capo Blvd,Midland Av, and regualr S51 routings
------------
--------------------------------------------
S93 Limited Stop Service Between Bay Ridge and Willowbrook
(variation of S53)
Implementation September 2001
Stops
CSI Bound
4 av and 86
4 av and 90 st
92 st and FH Parkway
CLove Road and Howard Av
CLove Rd and Victory Blvd
Victory Blvd and Manor Rd
Victory Blvd and Jewett Av
then all S92 stops to CSI Loop
Brooklyn Bound
CSI Entrance
S92 stops to Victory and Jewett av
Victory Blvd and Manor Rd
Vicotry Blvd and Clove Rd
92 St and FH Pwy
86 st and FH Pwy
86 St and 4 Av
4 Av and 86 St
morning and evening peak periods only
S93 Routing
via Victory Blvd,CLove Road,Statten Island Expwy ,VZ Bge,92 St,Ft Hamilt Pwy ,86 st,4 Av to Stand
Ret via 4 Av,92 St,and Return
which depot will do the S93? and does Castleton have enough buses to do the route if needed and why isnt Yukon getting newer buses? If i was in charge,i'd sent #471-#504 to Yukon and send #6327-#6349 to Castleton.
Hey - more of the older RTSs will probably make their way here to SI from 126th and others receiving the artics - as well as the possible RESURRECTION of the 3800s from Edgewater and other storage facilities. - Looks like the CHARLESTOWN Depot needs to be built soon as a result of 4 New lines
X21
X22
S81
S93
Also - guess the S8X will be LIMITED STOPS also, since no more S9Xs probably can be used.
S40/90
S51/81
S61/91
S62/92
S53/93
S44/94
S46/96
S48/98
Possible new Limiteds can be S79/99, S78/88, S74/84?? Who knows???
s93 should proably be s83 by the relatively simple standard of the Victory Blvd and north shore routes using s9x for limited service. There are currently no limited stop south shore buses, but the s78 and s79 should be.
It's Charleston, not Charlestown, (which is in Boston). No depot will be built in the forseable future.
-Hank
The majority of the local routes now come out of Castleton. AFAICT, only the s55/56, s79, and s61 still come out of Yukon. x1-9, x15, x17/19, x31, and the eventual x21 and x22 all come from Yukon.
-Hank
Correct me if I am wrong but did Academy buy out FUNAWAY, since I saw last night 2 buses 9803 and 9702 - or something similar - with FUNAWAY logos as well as ACADEMY and the Academy Operator crap on the bottom side of the bus.
Yes, Academy owns Funaway Tours, Academy bought them out last year. Some of the buses are now marked with Academy on them,like the newer coaches, their 102-DL3's I have seen with Academy on them.
Jay
Well lets see going into Flushing I had a new 300 Orion V, but this N21 had no A/C half of the time. Good thing it wasn't too hot out yet. Going back was the icing on the cake. I started waiting for the N20 to Hicksville, the 4:27pm at around a quarter after 4.
I was going to take this bus to Greenvale, get a bite to eat in one of the few good chinese places in my area, and then a 7pm N27 back home. Now I would've gotten there at 5:30pm, with plenty of time in between. Sadly this did not happen. I waited and waited in the blistering sun and suffocating fumes on Roosevelt avenue (fumes in Flus are the worst in the city). At 4:27pm an N20 shows but it's only going to Roslyn. We wait and wait and I grow angrier and angrier. I start telling people waiting on what has become a very long line by 4:45pm. They seem to not care how late the bus is, they just say "well I guess we'll wait for the 5:27pm" in a very nonchalant voice. 4:50pm and still no bus, my temper just explodes. I start yelling about these terrible buses. At 5pm an N21 bus to Glen Cove shows up. I ask the driver "where the N20 to Hicksville"? He says he doesn't have a clue. There's another bus behind him, but that driver is fooling around and needless to say does not come over to the stop and fill us in. At 5pm I couldn't take it anymore, I just had to leave. I am fuming, not just at the disgrace of a bus system (if you can even call it that) LI Bus is, but at the stupid SOB riders who don't care how late the bus is. Nothing phases the migrants and miscreants that ride LI Bus. No wonder why the service is so bad, not even the riders give a damn. I storm down into the Main street station and just make a 7 train. It was swift and reliable, and was making such great time I was able to make an LIRR train that connects with the 5:54pm OB train from Mineola. The ride was fast, the train shook like hell, and it all fit my mood. I made it to Greenvale at 6:10pm, just enough time to walk on over to the chinese place, and catch the N27 back home. Just another "one helluva day" riding Crap Island Bus, Not Going your way, not even going anywhere. Thank God we have LIRR.
Wow..and I thought Transit service in Canada was bad ..oh boy was I wrong.
I think it's time to move to another city.
If the Long Island bus is owned by MTA how come it sucks so bad? bad operations ?
Was it always this shitty ?
I don't know what the heck is wrong with the Orion 5's ..I never heard such bad stories about them as I did in Long Island.
Bad maintainance because LI Bus is strapped for cash. Nassau county doesn't give a damn about it's bus system.
QTrainDash7 do yourself a favor: Stick with the LIRR instead of taking LI Bus. Take it unless you really have to. I take the 7, E or F trains instead of taking the dreaded Q60 down "Slowness Blvd" aka Queens Blvd. Much faster and a lot less aggravating. Trust me.
B61#823Gary
Absolutely. Only problem is the LIRR station is a half hour walk from my place. But when I move soon I'll be close to an LIRR station, so it's goodbye to Crap Island Bus.
[Just another "one helluva day" riding Crap Island Bus, Not Going your way, not even going anywhere.]
Yes, but you DID get something to complain about, so the day wasn't a waste at all.
Instead of "kvetching" on this board, why aren't you on the horn to the garage and the dispatcher.
Also perhaps a constant stream of notes and telephone calls to your local county legislator would be more of a solution than your constant complaining on this board.
I report incidents to LI Bus officials at the HQ all the time. I have written the County executive and legislature about the buses also.
Since most riders are either too stupid or they aren't even citizens, they don't write because of laziness or fear. Strength is in numbers, I can complain all I want but until LI Bus riders give a damn about their system than nothing will be accomplished.
Why don't you start a petition?
That actually worked here in my area when several riders of the #72 bus line became fed-up with extreme overcrowding in the morning. When I was going to the middle school, the bus that I normally took was always SRO, and always packed. A couple times it was so bad the driver could not let anybody on as there were people standing in the front steps!
So the regular riders started a petition and as a result, NJ Transit adjusting the morning service on the #72 and there are now 1 or 2 extra trips to alleviate the dangerous conditions that previously existed.
The #72 is not a high priority line for NJ Transit; they are much more concerned with the rail system and commuter bus routes into Manhattan, but it goes to show you that you can get some results if you try hard enough.
If we at my namesake school had that kind of committment, we wouldn't be having half of the problems that we're having right now with local politicians.
Just curious - why didn't Command number these buses like the way I do below?
4900 (8398), 4901 (8399), and 4902(8567)?
Wasn't Command 4976 ex MTA 8398, 4977-8399 and 4978-8567?
Only reason for renumbering to 4900-4902 is because the lowest TMC CNG Bus at Command is 4903. Maybe they want to keep the TMC's in succession. 4900-4931 TMC RTS and 4932-4975 Orions. I guess now the ex-MTA goes as follows:
4900-8398
4901-8399
4902-8567
Hope this helps.
B100#4902Gary
Because it's not up to you.
-Hank
They were not renumbered 4901 and 4902 because Command/Varsity still has Orion Is 901 and 902. When the TMCs came in they started with 4903 because 901 and 902 were still in service with Command. What they should have done was renumber them 4918,4927 (to fill in the #s of the roasted buses) and then either 4900 or 4976.
Peace,
Kevin
what are new asignments for the colisem depot
The depot is still under construction. When it nears completion, route assignments will be determined.
David
Last night my wife, myself and another couple saw a new movie, THE SCORE, starring Edward Norton, Robert De Niro, and Marlon Brando. The plot is about a jewelry heist. One scene Edward Norton gets off of an Orion I. There was an interior shot of him sitting on a bus, but I'm not familiar enough with Orion 1's to know if it was the same bus. ( I know Bronx Tale, another De Niro flick, used two different fishbowls for interior and exterior shots ).
The next to last scene takes place with some MCI 102 either 12's or D3's in the background.
Also for sub-talk fans, one scene near a freight yard shows what appears to be an old transit car, similar to the "Tube car" at Shoreline.
Overall, its a great flick, buses or no buses.
Cool; gotta see that one. As I said before, "Telling Lies In America" is another good flick for busfans as well. Keep 'em coming; pass the popcorn and stay behind the white line!
-F.
Not only stand behind the white line but the fare is now $ 8.75 at the Loew's Westbury Stadium, former site of the Westbury Drive-In, now home to the multiplex and a BJ's Wholesale Club.
The flick is great. However the buses are not on camera very long and are not integral to the plot.
Oh I see. Well, sounds like a good movie anyway. Hey, a Fishbowl or similar bus would make a great mobile theatre; perhaps a cinema in the area should look into it. That way people could get a great visual tour of the city and watch a new flick at the same time! Maybe I'll open one someday, who knows.
-F.
Great idea but slightly impractical.....Some OTR's do have screens for movies they are very small. Therefore you will lose some of the special effects and sweeping panorama's...How can you see movies such as "Dancing with Wolves", "Lawrence of Arabia", "Romancing the Stone", etc on a tiny screen ?
Secondly where you get the Popcorn and Soda to sell. What about the clean-up after each screening ?
Between movie rental fees, projectionist salaries, bus operation costs, how much would you charge for a seating. Remember you are limited to about 40 seats or so, since you would have to supply a lavatory equipped vehicle.
Also you would need curtains to block out any outside light to keep the area dark enough to see the screen.
I could see it as a sightseeing set-up. Show the flick in a movie house, or while the bus is stationary in a parking lot, and then take a tour of the area(s) where the movie was made. Similar to the "Soprano" bus tour that operates from NYC to Northern Jersey.
No way...a Sopranos bus tour? Bet that's neat! Yeah, i never really thought about all that. There might be ways to get around it all though!
-F.
I heard something about the SEPTA Weekly pass Changes and on SEPTA's website(http://www.septa.org/) That I can't find the Price Changes on the Weekly Passes. So do anybody know the prices on the Weekly Pass for TransPass,Anywhere TrailPass,and Zone2-Zone4 TrailPass?
Thanks ALOT!
Weekly passes costs as follows:
TransPass (Zone 1): $18.75
Zone 2 TrailPass: $28.25
Zone 3 TrailPass: $34.50
Zone 4 TrailPass: $39.50
Zone 5 TrailPass: $45.50
Why is it that green bus line bus have thick black smoke coming out all the time
As opposed to thick green smoke?
500,000 & a long time since the engine was removed for a complete O/H.
Mr t__:^)
I would say it is because of poor maintenance. As a former rider, I have seen it at it's worst. But all the privates got new equipment along with NYCT, so I don't see why that would be happening.
Hello everyone; it's time for the latest bus sighting. I have been following the "Welcome Back, Kotter" marathon on TV Land for some of the weekend (this is one of my favorite shows of all time); if you choose to do the same, you will find a great front shot of NYCTA Fishbowl no. 8854 boarding passengers in the end credits of each episode. Check it out; it's on right now!
-F.
I have been watching that marathon the whole weekend for that one shot of that 8800 series fishbowl.Those TDH-5305's had pretty good speed(even after the Blitz rebuilds)in the Mid 80's.
Well, of course they had good "Speed"; they were Fishbowls...just ask Sandra Bullock...LOL! There is also another shot of a 5305 passing under a bridge in the title sequence of the later episodes. I have been watching not only because of the 8854 in the beginning and end credits, but also because it was a great show!
-Freddy "Boom Boom" Donaher
Yeah - I watch it also. I used to watch it as a child and I was a bit envious because we (MABSTOA) did not have any T6H-5305A's. Also late Sunday/early Monday they showed the newer episodes. I never care for those except in the closing credits they showed a train of R-42 as well as the familiar R-32 that's seen in the opening credits.
Wayne
Yeah, I knew someone was bound to have info on the trains in the series. If so, I'll bet they'd be a hot topic at SubTalk as well,
especially the episode where Vinnie Barbarino gets his own apartment
and has a "trained" foldout bed; it sprung out of the wall every day at 4:45 when the Flatbush Express came rolling through!
I always liked the earlier episodes the best as Barbarino was still in them (these were the pre-Saturday Night Fever days when Travolta still had time for the show, of course) and Julie still looked like herself; however, it was neat to look at the final episodes I never saw to view how the cast and plot had changed.
However, what bugged me about later episodes is the fact that they had a GREAT shot of a pre-Blitz 5305 passing through under a bridge but the cameraman flipped up the camera as the bus was passing, and all you could see was the roof. I mean, come on...buses are a HUGE part of NYC, and they should have left that shot alone in order to give a feel of local color to the show! Oh well, too late now. At least I got a glimpse of the roof and noted the dual-zone AC units.
-F.
That scene bugged me too. The first time I saw that, I was trying to catch the fleet number of the bus. That was probably a 6000 series fishbowl riding underneath the el but we will never know for sure. Also there was never a full shot of those batwings on 8854. There's another picture of 8854 at this website under Brooklyn Buses.
No way; 8854 had batwings? I never saw those! Where can I find Brooklyn Buses? Let me know; thanks!
-F.
It sure did. Not all, but a bunch of those 8800 series T6H-5305A's had Bus-O-Ramas.
In the shot on the closing credits of Welcome Back, Kotter you can see a very small portion of the Bus-O-Rama sign.
Wayne
8829-8878 had the Bus-O-Ramas.
To find the pictures of some of these buses at this website you can go to the top of the main Bus Talk page and go to More Bus Pages. From there under Joe Testagrose's Collection, there are pics of 8800's under each borough listed. Under the Bronx there's a pic of 8802 but without Bus-O-Ramas. BTW, there are two shots of 8854, one on the R103 still painted in green and another on the B64 painted in blue.
Hmm....I'll have to watch for that. I hope TV Land is showing Kotter regularly now.
-F.
That wasn't the a/c unit you see on top of the bus when its going under the elevated tresle.That was the housing for the radio antenna.the A/C units on those buses were in the back over the rear window
Oh, I see; I didn't realize antennas were that huge, even in the Seventies! I knew about the rear unit for A/C though. I always thought they were part of the Blitz program and were used for dual-zone climate control. Thanks for clearing that up!
-F.
I don't think the antenna was really that huge. I think that was just a cover for the antenna. Back in the late 60's, whip antennas were used but they didn't last too long due to damage.
A post at New Jersey Online's Transit message board mentions that NJT has put the next batch of 325 coaches on hold until MCI addresses warranty issues. Specifically mentioned were brakes (and man, are those new Meritor brakes LOUD), driver and passenger seats, tires wearing out at just 14,000 miles, and electrical issues (MCI developed a multiplex system and customized dash just for NJT).
First, the 650 Nova RTSs, now this. Just goes to show what happens when you try to replace your fleet all at once. There was a reason Public Service bought a handful of buses every year, instead of giant orders the way the state has done since 1976. Until 1970, PS would buy anywhere from 50-200 buses each year, every year. This kept the fleet fresh, with annual turnover, and didn't result in equipment shortages if one batch was bad.
Memo to NJT about the artic and hybrid bus proposals coming in next month: stop asking for things the manufacturer has never done before, and you may actually get buses that hit the streets on day one and work properly.
Well well well, doesn't seem likes it's just a NOVABUS problem after all. Sounds like an NJT personal problem to me.
Not So Fast New Flyer Boy!
MTA is having thier own set of issues with the Nova, and so is several other properties with recent Nova acquisitions. Now, I'm not saying that MCI is perfect, and yes NJT is asking for a lot of customized things, particularly on the MCI order. But our Nova order is stuff that normally comes on a Nova.
So again, don't mix Nova issues with MCI issues, its two different set of problems and at least the MCI's engine craddles are dropping like over ripe bananas in field.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
>>>MCI's engine craddles are dropping like over ripe bananas in field.<<<
Mmmm, doesn't that remind you of another bus? Vintage 1980, NYCTA/MaBSTOA property? But of course since they wrere EVERYONE's favorite buses, it was OKAY they were catching on fire and dropping motors everywhere. It was NYCTA's fault they were bad buses. Now, I wonder what kind of bus THAT is?
Trevor meant to say the MCI engine cradles are NOT dropping - it's the RTSs that are having the cradle problems. MCI has been using the Detroit Diesel Series 60, the Cummins M11/ISM, and the Cat 3176 for a long time, and they are extremely heavy engines.
I know he meant the RTS.
Last time I checked we were dicussing NJT Novas and MCI issues, not MTA Grumman Flxible issues which we discussed several times over and found the MTA Grumman issues to be due to lack of proper preventative maintenance on the TA's part.
Quit trying to spark a nerve on the Flxible fans here, we have stopped bashing the Novas, so just end it.
Now back to the topic at hand, NJT's Nova and MCI issues and I did mean to say aren't instead of are.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
You STILL say it's the TAs fault? When you have three of America's largest cities canning thses things, you have a problem.
Yep, will always be those TA's fault, Espcially when you have 29 orders in the same year!!!! 3 is just a drop in the bucket!
So Kill It!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
If it was truly the TAs fault, then why would Flxible spend money out of pocket to rebuild over 2,000 buses? Hmmm? Guilty conscience I say. No matter what you say, the Grumman-Flxible 870 will be looked at by drivers, maintenance, and management alike as a failure. Nothing can change how Grumman dropped the ball.
I'm not saying Grumman was perfect, NO manufacture is perfect. Look are you precious Novas nowadays, Warranty issues-Poor Quality Control.....SO please. Don't give me that crap.
AND ALSO EVERY OPERATOR THAT HAS DRIVEN A FLXIBLE, LOVED IT. IT WAS ONE OF IF NOT THE BEST BUS TO DRIVE FOR A 8 HOUR STINT.
I drive buses, so if you can say you do the same, then base you opinion off of that. I've driven Novas, they are crampy and cause back problems!!!!!! And until you become a operator or in maintenance for a bus company that has both buses in the fleet. I really don't want to hear anything else you have to say.
Better yet, when you move to NJ and work for NJT and tell how every operator misses and speaks of the 1980-1981 870s, then you can see me.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Please Trevor, stop acting like a bratty child. You should listen instead of flapping lip so much. That's how I know so much about your region, by LISTENING. It's a basic skill which I believe you should try. Now, let's get down to business.....
You all say it was NYCTA's fault that the Grummans failed in NYC. That's my understanding. Well, NYCTA had nothing on Rapid Tranist/HouTran back in 1977 when we had 500 buses operating out of a fifty year old trolley barn. When it rained, buses sank into the pits. Well, in 1977, guess what rolled into town. The first RTS Houston was ever blessed with; the infamous slopedback RTS-01s, the Grumman 870 of the RTS. These buses had electrical and an over exaggerrated A/C problems. Yet, they made the daily runs, 6v71N struggling all the way. These 152 buses operated out of a freakin' trolley barn! When New Looks and Old Looks were dying on the streets these things were pulled out of the pits and pushed into service. These were not RTS-04s, these were RTS-01s! One of the most looked down upon buses in history making it in Houston shacked up with 500 other buses in a decrepid facility.
By 1979, when the Grummans came along, things were improving. The Big Boys had taken over. It was Metro now, HouTran was gone. They were still operating out of Milby, but it was extensively rehabbed. Metro was only hiring the best maintenence staff to get the New Looks rolling and then what? The Grummans fail! They failed!
So what does Houston do? We build more facilites and keep those 326 shits rolling, despite the fact they're DANGEROUS. When Metro adopted the stripes, the Grummans had to be rehabbed so they could qualify to be painted. They failed! Over 100 infractions AFTER rehab. You can't blame us. 20 year old New Looks were being rehabbed and running good as ever. The RTS-01s were being retrofitted with new A/C units. So what was up with the Grummans? Evenutally, Metro wisened up and began ordering RTS-04s to replace the crapboxes.
In 1983, 226 Grummans were pulled. The other 100 sent to Flxible to be rebuilt. Do you think they just built another batch of crappy 870s? Of course not! These were hybrids. 870s rebuilt to Metro specs. And they still sucked. You talk about Nova Quality Control, look at the crap Grumman-Flxible dished out until 1985.
You respect a company that ripped off a GM design, ruined it throughout the 70s with severe rusting problems, then put millions of lives in danger with the 870, and yet you say it's the fault of fast acting TAs. Give me a break Trevor. It's not NYCTAs fault those Grummans failed. If Houston could operate RTS-01s out of a pit, NYCTA was MORE than equipped to handle Grummans. The buses just were shit, jack shit.
And guess what? The average life of a Flxible is 13-15 years old. The average life of an RTS is 16-20. The only thing that's killing off the current crop of 80s RTS is ADA compliance and strict EPA standards on buses. Flxibles were being scrapped at 12 and 13 four and five years ago. NJT did it with their own order of 870s and Metro As.
And look what year it is, 2001. You know, there's a whole plethora of 1986-88 Flxibles out there. You know what happens to Flxibles after they pass 12. Let's see. WMATA will replace their 1986 Flxibles in the next two years, so long. Miami-Dade was replacing 1987 Flxibles in 1999 along with 19 year old RTS buses. So long. MARTA is replacing their Flxibles with New Flyers, a bus that can run rings around the best Flxible. And even your beloved NJT will be replacing the 1989 Flxibles in 2003. And guess what, they'll be 14. Damn. And then, they'll most likely be replacing them with RTS. Oh, the irony!
You know, it's sad really. For a bus that's so loved. It hasn't done much to deserve it. In fact it's done plenty to be loathed. But, I guess it's like gilrs who love bad guys. They don't deserve the love, but they get it.
Well Trevor, at the rate of Flxible retirment, I say most TAs will have disposed of their Flxibles by the year 2011. Look at Chicago, getting rid of 1991 Flxibles, yet rehabbing 1991 RTS. I guess they have the right idea.
You can bang out your Flxible history all you want. It just rolls off my back. You SAY every driver who's ever driven a Flxible loved it? Pass me whatever you're smoking. We had rivers who passed up Flxibles because they didn't have enough leg room, they were rough riding, and they leaned into the street. In contrast, the RTS were called the Cadillac of buses. Hardly an insult. I guess it's just NJT and NYCTA who order cramped drivers areas in their RTS. There was MORE than enough room in our RTS.
So Trevor, stop yelling and screaming over the internet and listen. What I typed was FACT, not opinion based on observation. What you posted about the operators is called bias. I'm sure there were plenty of NJT B/Os who despised the Flxible as there are drivers who despise the RTS. But let me tell you something, when D60HF say Novas can take punishment, that means something. For one, he is a B/O, and two he HATES RTS more than anybody I've ever met. Giving a compliment to the Novas of all things really does mean something. As for your little Flxible book, it was written by a Flxible person. It's full of bias. It holds no water with me.
So that's my little essay. You can rant and scream and type short sentences with exclamation points, use large fonts and tons of ebonics, still I've proven my point. And for your pleasure......
My List of Buses That Are Better Than Flxibles (Overall)
-RTS-04/06 (This goes without saying)
-New Flyer D40LF (Are faster and are 10x more solid than a Flxible)
-Orion V (I despise these things, but they didn't fail in NYC as Flxibles did so that at least says something)
-RTS-03s (These things lasted 22 years in DC, none of the Flxibles will achieve that)
RTS-01s (For just being tough sons of bitches)
So there you have it T. Lo (by the way, where's J. Lo). And if you don't like this, as Luda say......
It's cool, get at me......
Funny how you said I was a RTS hater (which is sorta true) but you dude are a Flxible hater .
Where the heck did you hear the CTA Flxibles are crap ? I was there twice and there not going to retire Flxibles. CTA RTS vehicles are getting rebuilt because of the fact they getting A/C installed and old. The only buses CTA is going to retire are MAN 1980's and Flyer 1983 vehicles. If CTA is stupid enough to get rid of the 1991 Flxibles then we in Canada must buy them :).
The reason the Flxibles are retired after 12 years is they recieve funding for new buses. Maybe Houstons were bad but not other Grummans.
1981 Grummans in service in San Jose Califorinia have since retired from there in 1996 and where sold. 21 went to my city and 10 run ran till 2001 ! I wouldn't say there junk because Orion I's from 1986 fall apart sooner then those babies ! Ya true they had emissions problems but somehow they just kept running with no frills maintenence personal, even the folks at the garage didn't think they would be inservice after a year or so.
I dunno if you can say that all Grummans where junk because Vaughan in Ontario is running old U.S Grummans. Aswell Niagara Falls has aquired a bunch of them and if they where junk they could have gotten New Looks or Classics to replace them.
I can't say if the RTS is good or bad because I never get to see them . But PACE had one RTS and never bought another RTS(I'm going to a proud owner of the photo of that PACE RTS soon:)
HA HA ..the New FLyer D40 is NOT better then a Flxible ..sorry but thats true as much as I love them. Kitchener has them and there falling apart and the worse part is there from 1992-1996 ! I was on one 1996 New Flyer CNG and everytime the driver left a stop the bus would jerk before taking off. Also one 1994 New Flyer caught fire this year ! I seen one CTA New Flyer that had a crack going down at the front of the bus.
As for the Orion 5 it's a good bus but again the thing tends to rust and engine fires do happen.
I agree; Canada should buy the CTA 91 Flxes if they don't want them. I heard a nasty rumor that they will be scrapped; I really hope not. We should band together and SAVE them!!!
Also, I understand that Vaughan and Niagra Falls are also running former 35' Grummans from here in Roanoke, Virginia; they were former valley Metro units and may be distinguished by their Bright Red seats. Have you seen any of there around up there? They were also retrofitted with Alcoa aluminum wheels before they were retired; I'm not sure if they were sold with them, but our museum Grumman (Valley Metro no 186) still has them.
Also, some 1998 New Flyers nearby had engine fires as well; I wonder what is going on with those? Hopefully newer versions don't have that problem.
-F.
Geese I'm going to look into this about the CTA trashing 91 good Flxibles ! I can't understand why they would do this unless they think the Nova LFS is going to pull some wonders for them....which that won't happen! I heard stories about them Nova's, that they just seem to die on the streets of Chicago when the engine over heats.
It could be those losers who complained that CTA buses stating the buses have been driven to many miles..these people have no clue on buses, they just want new buses.
Yes of course I been to Niagara Falls :) There used on the Falls
Shuttle runs ..35 and 40 footers.
43-46 GFC 870 (45096) 1979 Aquired 1995 ex Roanoke (might be still running ?)
47 GCF (53102) 1982 Aquired 1995 from Columbus OH
51-52 GCF (53102) 1983 Aquired 1996 ex COTA
53-54 GCF (53102) 1982 Aquired 1998 ex COTA
I know Vaugan's are from Dallas, & Santa Clara County Transit.
Also a transit system in Alberta Canada operates Flxibles from : San Diego North County District
Luke
Um yes, CTA is getting rid of it's 1991 Flxibles. They are keeping the 1996 models. The 1991s are scheduled to go in 2003.
1996? I thought those were 1995 models? It is to my understanding that the only Flxes built in 96 were four cancelled NYCs that went to Detroit Diesel and are now engine test mules. Can anyone back me up on this?
-F.
WMATA Last's Flxibles where Bulit in 1996.
No they weren't. The last batch came here in late '94.
That's the Flxible Metro D's. I talking about the Metro E's that WMATA Have that it came in 1996.
The last WMATA Flxibles period were in late '94
Oh? I thought they were 95s. I do know that quite a bit of the later models are 94s as I rode one (9813) to the Smithsonian.
-F.
Were they? Hmm...Trevor Logan said their last Flxes were 95s, but I'd love to think that Flxibles were still built in 1996.
-F.
The last Flxible's built were in 1995 and were thought to have been sent to Baltimore, MD. Their order was supposed to be for 25 units and they only obtained 19. The last 8 were sent to Monterey-Silinas Transit in Calafornia and were model 40102-4D's powered by Natural Gas. To clarify they Detroit Diesel Series 50G's but it is not documented what transmissions they are coupled to. Hope this helps.
Peace!
DaShawn-Flxible METRO D #1975
www.transitworld.org
Thanks DaShawn!
-Fred
... and some are strangely quiet....hmm
Peace,
ANDEE
No, just observing those of us who are instigating.
I'm confused as to what those last two posts mean? Please advise.
-F.
Sorry, but a poster that actually LIVES in Chi-town posted this.....
>>>330 of them to be exact. 6000-6229 were delivered (I believe) between March and October, 1995. 6230-6329 arrived in the Spring of '96. Both groups feature the squared backs, over-the-engine AC units, and roof-mounted vertical exhaust stacks with lids. I don't know whether they'd be classified as Metro-Ds or Metro-Es. Anybody?<<<
In fact it was a response written to a question you had asked referring to Metro Es.
I'm not a Flxible hater, BTW. It may come off that way because I'm going against Trevor. Though what I'm stating is fact, it's for mind games.
Oh BTW, Only children play mind games!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
New Flyers aren't good buses? We have almost 500 of them and one has yet to ctach fire, including the old 1996 models which run great. They have less reattles than the Flxibel AND RTS and could dust both of those buses. They'll never be as reliable as an RTS, but they're GREAT buses.
I am trying to understand how you can compare and RTS/Flxible 870 to a New Flyer D40LF or L40LF in terms of acceleration. Of course a New Flyer will blow an RTS/870 of older vintage because they use different power plants. 4 cycle engines are they key. Now if you repower and RTS/870 I would like to see who wins that competition!
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
A repowered Flxible would blow away our 1996-98 D40LFs because they're slowing down. But I doubt they could beat a 32-35xx D40. Any NFI 1996 or greater would blow away or keep pace with a 4 cycle RTS. I've never ridden an RTS with better than above average acceleration.
OK, wait a second. I don't believe that Flxible ripped off GM's New Look design; in fact, I prefer it to theirs as it had special Flxible touches. For one, I like the enlarged Tiwn coach-style six-piece windshield; while it may have been a TC trademark originally, Flx did own it at the time. In fact, all Flxible transits through 1962 (New Looks included) carried Flxible Twin Coach nameplates due to a 10-year contractual agreement in September 1952 when Flx bought TC.
Also, as far as being solid buses, when I drove both Flx Metros and New Flyer LFs, the Metros didn't rattle HALF as much as the NFs. A good bit of that was due to the 4-cycle Series 50s that were mandated in them by the time they were built in 1998, while the 2-cycle 6v71s of 1986 and 87 hum along smoothly without causing vibration through the body.
Also, as a testament to the Flxible, not all TAs retire them before other buses; the TA I drove for is canning their RTSes this fall at age 12 and keeping the Flx Metro "B"s through at least 2003 or 2004. By this time they will be 17 to 18 years old, which is not a bad age at all. And at that point they will still have a good bit of life left in them.
I think a good bit of why TAs retire buses early is to "keep up with the Joneses"; while their Flxes are still running smoothly, some folks want to retire them and have new buses to impress riders and such. At least that's my theory. I know that's what happened here and in other places. Also, in some municipalities, funding may come into play; some TAs won't get funds for buses unless they retire equipment and agree to purchase new fleets. And once again, ADA may fall into that as well.
But yes, I agree; Flxibles are just being retired way too early. Maybe it's because they are no longer made, who knows. All I know is that it's a damned shame. I love those Flxes.
-F.
You a B/O for Blacksburg Transit? COOL! Are you still working there or you working with Valley Metro?
I used to drive for BT but left there in February; it was fun while it lasted though. I thought about going to Valley Metro as they are great people to work with; I have friends there and enjoy visiting them every now and then.
-F.
I aplogize to you for coming off as the Anti-Flx of the board, but I do get riled up when I see one of Trevors little smart-ass ebonic laden responses. I DON'T hate Flxs. I used to actually prefer them over the RTS. It's just that sometime, with certain people on this board, you have to handle business.
Ok now you want to disrespect ones on choice in typing, If remeber correctly BRO, when you was on your other little BusTalk handle you used "ebonics" and slang terms left and right and I never judged you on it. Now you are trying to come off like some Harvard grad. Kill the crap!
So you want to go that route, we can, But it's not worth my time!
Regards,
T. Logan
www.transitalk.com
I judge you on it because you use it to put others down and parade around like an arrogant know-it-all. I'm not the most modest guy when it comes to putting out facts, but I try not to yell and put others down with BEEEEEEEEEEYATCH and other silly crap.
I was doing Beeeyatch to add a little humor in so this wouldn't be so serious, BUT appearently you have no sense of humor.
I'll parade as much as I want because when I respond to your crap, I'm taking it straight from the books, while you are taking it from hearsay!
Regards,
T.Lo
AMEN! Brother AMEN! I could not agree with you more!
Also, The Flxible New Looks were unique in the fact that when introduced they were T-Drive, just like todays Orion's and New Flyers, while the GM's were standard V-Drive, No T-Drive available on the GM's. They had a completely different look also, with some similarities. On another note in 1971 Flxible introduced the first transit bus to operate on LNG. Yes a LNG powered New Look. Now GM was not doing anything like that! Flxible=Innovation!
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Amen to that! Wow...I didn't know there was an LNG New Look. I did know about the T-Drive New Looks though....this is how all Flxible transits were offered through 1967. It's ironic as most TAs prefer T-drive these days as they are easier to work on. Bet they were different!
-F.
Now I never dissed your listening skills, However you have choose to got that route, I'm not because, its not worth it. I don't have much more to say because I READ, I don't listen because listening to others get you in trouble, I read books on buses, I work phsyically on buses and visit bus manufactures. Just like me, you stop flapping you lips and OPEN A BOOK! Secondly, don't take your little aggression on my typing style because I haven't done the same to you!
Also I never said I outright hate RTSs either, I'm not pleased with Nova's recent crap. I'm a fan of the 1994 TMC RTS batches. BUT NONE THE LESS...I will admit when a bus is at fault. And like I said previous post, Flxible wasn't perfect, Nova isn't perfect, MCI isn't perfect, NO ONE IS PERFECT, but when a TA's preventative maintenance is shit and HouTran, Funny buses sinking, that AGAIN is a TA issue not a bus issue.
Down to business....
Again you are wrong, Flxible's average life span is that of the RTS also, HOWEVER for major transit properties why keep a bus over 12-15 years if the Federal Government help out in the cost of new buses unless you can't cover your end. Look at Baltimore, DC, NYCTA (New Look Wise), who had Flxibles do 18-20 years of Service....DC you had 1976 Flxible New Looks operate clean up to 2000. If I count correctly, that's 22 years of service! And you still have 1986 Flxible METRO's operating in DC, NONE RETIRED and NONE RETIRING SOON! Baltimore you had 1982 870s Operate well into 1999, that's 17-18 years of service. In NYCT, you had 1975-1977 Flxible New Looks do Service up to 1992-1993 thats 16-17 years of service, so don't give me that Flxible's average life crap here. Oh BTW, You have Blacksburg Transit retiring RTSs WAY younger than thier Flxibles, explain that one!?!?!
Also the reasoning for replacing Flxibles or ANY buses built in the Late 90s is because of a federal mandate on 2-cycle diesel engines, Not everyone wants to do or have to facility resources to do a fleet engine swap like the MTA is doing to the Orions and RTSs, so what do other people do, Buy buses with Federally Mandated engines for 2003. So kill that, because if it wasn't for the engine mandate, NJT wouldn't have replaced thier Flxibles until 2007 from what Fleet Ops said and same goes for our massive MCI order & New articulated order, that would've made them 18 years old at retirement. And that's goes for the same for Miami, MARTA, LACMTA and a few others.
Bring whatever "facts" you want to bring...I will knock them down with COLD HARD facts and I've the resources to continually do it!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
>>>>>>>DC you had 1976 Flxible New Looks operate clean up to 2000. If I count correctly, that's 22 years of service!
Actually that's 24, unless the WMATA got their buses two years later. You count incorrectly!
I said "IF", thank you anyways, you are a great help! (SCOFS)
Regards,
T. Logan
www.transitalk.com
LOL. ROTF.
Anytime dude!
You can't combine Flx New Looks and Flx Metro life spans. That's like using New Look statistics to boost RTS arguments, but, since you want to go that route.....
NYCTA - GM New Looks - 15-25 years
GMC RTS-04s - 15-20+ years (REMANS and 2270 Active)
Houston - GM New Looks - 30 Years
GMC RTS-01s - 15 Years
GMC RTS-04s - 19 Years
Chicago - GMC New Looks - 20 Years
GMC RTS Projected - 18-20 Years
WMATA - GM New Looks - 36 Years
RTS-03s - 22 Years
LA - RTS-04s - 18 Years
OCTA - RTS-03s - 20+ Years
San Antonio - RTS-03s - 20 Years
RTS-04s - 20 Years
MBTA - RTS-04s - Projected 18-19 Years
Miami-Dade - RTS-04s - 20 Years
Walt Disney Transport - RTS-04s - 20 Years
SEPTA - RTS-03s - 15-18 years
GBL - RTS-03s - 21 Years
Look at that. And you're harping because some TAs kept a few Grummans past the age of 15? BTW, the 1977 Flx New Looks in NYC were retired in 1994. Wow, how could you miss that!? And you call yourself a Flx fan. And as for Blackburg, they're retiring FOUR, count them son, FOUR 1989 RTS. Chi-town on the other hand is getting rid of 350+ Flxibles in 2003, at the tender age of 12.
Let's look at some more statistics.....
NYCTA - Flxible 870 - 4 Years
Houston - Flxible 870 - 4 years
Hybrid 870/Metro A - 14 Years
Metro A - 12-14 years
Miami-Dade - Flxible Metro B - 12-14 Years and retiring (Only 20 1987 Flxibles left and 32 1988 Flxibles)
LA - Flxible Metro B - 12-14 Years and retiring
MARTA - Flxible Metro B - 12-14 Years and retiring
CTA - Flxible Metro B or D - Projected 12 years
NJT - Flxible 870s - 12-13 years
Metro A - 13 Years
Flxible Rejects from NYCTA - 12-13 years
Flxible Metro B - Projected 14 Years
WMATA - Flxible Metro As or Bs - Projected 16-17 years
Statistics don't lie. As for your "Fleet Ops" what does he/she have to say about the purging of Flxibles in 1993 and 1996 while MCIs the same age and older kept on rolling. Let's not live in fantasy land.
"Statistics don't lie. As for your "Fleet Ops" what does he/she have to say about the purging of Flxibles in 1993 and 1996 while MCIs the same age and older kept on rolling"
Here is what I have facts on for that, Our Diesel MCIs were supposed to be replaced in 1996-97, HOWEVER the state was pushing for the CNG shits, so we did that thing first, thus the 77 CNG MCI Cruisers, if it wasn't for that, the MCI MC9s would've been gone in 1996-97.
Keep them coming, I'll keep knocking them down!
Regards,
T.Lo
I don't buy that. NJT has retired batches of Flxibles in 1993 and 1996 at the ripe old age of 13, then were SUPPOSED to retire the tough as nails MCIs at the same age, YET, they were going to keep Flxibles built in 1989 until the year 2007? And, do tell how they were planning to replace the 1987 MCIs when they were only 9 and 10 years old?
It doesn't matter whether you BUY it or not because that is fact straight from the people who order and retire NJT's buses!!
Regards!
Before I go on, let me ask you this. NJT currently only has 77 CNG MCI units? Am I correct?
Yes you are correct!
Regards!
So, you're saying that NJT waited to retire a fleet of 500+ buses because they wanted a CNG fleet, only to receive 77 such buses and replace the fllet with a masssive order of diesel replacements anyway?
The CNG order was forced upon NJ Transit by the state for Clean Air reasons only to find that the CNG buses are just as harmful if not worse that the new Clean Diesel MCI Cruisers.
Yes, the 77 MCI CNG Cruiser order put the current 1,400 Clean Diesel MCI Cruiser order on hold until now. The order was set to start in 1996-97 and be completed by 1999. But like stated above, the CNG order killed that idea. That's the reason why NJT demoed two Cruisers in 1996, Buses #8060 and 8011.
Regards,
T.Logan
clean diesel buses are a separeted in njt.
HUH? I don't get the point of your post?!?!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Yow....looks like the Fishbowl is superior to the RTS in staying power!
-F.
I agree; when I drove for Blacksburg Transit at Virginia Tech, the Flxes were my favorite to drive. They were just so comfortable and familiar to me. And the pleasant hum of that 6v71 was music to my ears.
Also, I liked its user-friendly simplicity; while my colleagues preferred the New Flyer LFs for all their bells and whistles, they just had too many gadgets for me. When I buy a bus one day for myself, it will be a Flxible for me!
-F.
Just found out from a pretty reliable source that the 870's that were rehabbed that you said were turned into METROs.....
THEY WEREN'T TURNED INTO A DAMN THING
Those buses remained as 870's by Flxible and the Transit Industry....Blow that up your Viking Pipe and smoke it!!!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
What source is this? Whoever he or she is is wrong. Those 326 shits we got ran for four years and 226 were sold and 100 were sent to Flxible. They came back as Metro Model As. They had the front panels and everything. What 870 do you know has the front panel of a Metro? And you call yourself an expert? Puh-lease!
You know who the source is....
THE FLXIBLE HISTORY BOOK
Now you gonna call Flxible, the builder and rebuilder a liar????
EAT CROW NOW BUDDY!
Just because it has a "metro" style panel doesn't make it a METRO. NJT had some just like that but they were STILL 870s!
Now denote that!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Baltimore too!!!!
Now what!
When you can bang out RTS history like I do, then you can see me, until then
YOU CAN'T SEE ME BEEEEEYAAAAATCCHHHHH!
T.Lo
So I guess they were cranking out 870s with 1983 builders plates, eh?
Yep!
See the NJT Flxible METRO-Cs were originally had 1989 builders plate, they ended up becoming CNG buses in 1991 and got new builders plates.
Look here son son, Any Flxible knowledge you think you are gonna stump with with, you are not. I'm a TRUE Flxible fan know my shit. Get over it!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Obviously, Flxible was still building Metro-Cs in 1991. Metro Model A production began in 1981. They weren't building 870s in 1983. I seriously doubt they gave these buses a minor rehab. They were REBUILT. So why would they rebuild them to the problematic 870 specs? That would make no sense. I'll give you a little comprimise. They were hybrids, 870s rebuilt to Metro specs.
Actually, they were reintroduced as the Grumman Metro in 1982; this is where the design improvements for the model were originally implemented. Many of these hybrids ran in upstate NY. Very few Grumman Metros were made before the company decided to return the Flxible nameplate to the buses in 1983. The Flx-badged versions went on to become successful and popular buses in many cities, with lots of them still in service today.
-F.
The METRO's were not introduced into production until 1983 Son Son! The 870 was from 1978-1983. Again you are wrong!
Compromise......There is no compromise, Those Houston units are 870s, with METRO modifications, but they are 870s none the less!
The "METRO-C" era was Late 1991 to 1992. The NJT Metro-Cs were originally slated to be METRO-Bs in late 1989! HOWEVER becuase NJT wanted 5 CNG units, the last 5 units of the 1991 order was held off until 1991, making them OFFICIALLY METRO-Cs.
Unless you got that Flxible Book or Flxible Production List in front of your face or you are a NJ Transit employee (Like I do and are), you can't compromise with me or tell me crap about a Flxible order.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Sorry but they were producing 870's in 1983. The last brand new units were a total of 20 to Spokane, Wahsington and were equipped with Detroit Diesel 6V-92TA's and the last remans were a total of 100 sent to Houston, Texas. When Flxible was in the reman business this process was called A.B.R.(Advanced Bus Remanufacturing) and there were two ways a bus could be remanned. The first was a transit system would give Flxible a new look coach and they would then strip the old bus to the frame and literally place a new 870/METRO body onto the old/Remaned New Look frame. The second type of reman is the kind that Houston METRO took advantage of, which was the total remanning of a 870 like the ones that MTA-NYCT had done and other systems alike. So again I urge you to read up on your information and not just go on hearsay!
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Well thank you for clearing it up. I was under the impression from my own sources that these were 870s built to Metro specs, AKA hybrids. Thanks for the info. You prove, DeShaun, that you can get alot more across to people if you're not condescening and arrogant. Perhaps we can all learn from that.
Luck may have it that TransiTALK is proud to have a Ex-Houston METRO (Of the Grumman and Eagle Era) employee on its staff.
I picked his brain a little.....
Just like any other buses, in its first generation, you are gonna find issues (i.e. the Orion 7, the LFS, the MCI E Series and so forth). Houston METROs 1979 Grumman Flxibles were of the first generation which didn't get the fixes, the fixes didn't come till after the MTA units. 1981-1983 Grumman Flxible worked on the issues which resulted in the METRO in 1983. As for the remanufacturing, IT WAS ALL COSMETIC!!!! The 100 remans were rebodied, but retained a lot of their original interior fittings and panels...as well as the 8V-71s and 730s. So that means that the A-frames and such were basically the same as it was when the buses were built in 1979. So basically you were riding some prettied up Flxibles with the same hearts and skeleton in late 90s until retirement as it was in 1979.
Hmmmmmmmm! Thus the issues YOU saw on them! These were not done like NJTs were they had the A-frame upgrades and so forth! You can not compare Houston's units to any other rebuilds because the Houston ones were cosmetically done not internally.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
I'd like to know who this guy is. And the 1600s had 8v71s and they were that slow? For once you have turned out something interesting.
I made it never a point to give out names outta respect for my people and sources. I've made that mistake in the past and lost a good source.
Regards,
T.L.
That's understandable. If you can get him to come onboard here he'd definately be an asset.
He's against the Talk boards! That's why I just picked his brain because he wouldn't come here!
Regards,
T.Logan
Trevor, you have a point; the initial models of a bus are not without their flaws. The same went for drivetrains with the government mandate of four-cycle engines in 1994.
Our Gilligs, while virtually trouble-free in the 1988 and 1991 6v92-powered orders, arrived in 1994 with the newly-offered Series 50 and Allison 5-speed auto transmission. Unforunately, the high-torque S50 was not exactly made for the gearboxes (which I assume were a new design) and the drivetrains spilled their innards all over the streets of Roanoke for the first few years. As a result, Gillig had to extend the warranty on the whole bus by two years. Also, they clatter like sewing machines from a mile away. Later versions I have rode are smoother and do not have as many problems.
Also, we all know of the Grumman's engine cradle woes, but the first RTSes had design problems, particularly in the A/C units. That doesn't make either ADB a bad bus; they merely needed a few model years in order to get the bugs out, which real service at TAs provided. Eventually each bus was redesigned here and there, and the flaws disappeared, making each a successful design after all. While Flxible is unfortunately no longer with us, I have a feeling that if their survival was based on the Metro design alone, they would still be thriving just as well as NovaBus et al.
The same holds true with anything; whether it's a car or a can opener, the initial design of something improves over time. All that is needed is for each product to be put to actual use to see how it performs and goes over with the public, and to change what prevents it from succeeding. And that is what has been done with all of the above.
-F.
Not a problem! I think we are all thirsty for knowledge and we are all here to help each other out.
Till next time!
Peace!
DaShawn
You've got that right, my friend. We enrich each other with our knowledge and common interest. :)
-F.
No problem; I just wanted to share what I know about those buses. If anyone has any addendum, please let me know. Thanks everyone!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
OK, I'm confused. Were the last Grumman 870s built in 1982 or 83? I know the Grumman Metro was introduced around 1982. I also know they were reintroduced as the Flxible Metro in 1983. So when did each model bow out or drop in? I know about all the Metro letter codes but am clueless as to when the 870 stopped, the Grumman Metro slipped in, and the Flx Metro took over for the Grumman. I have also heard that the Grumman Metro ws introduced as early as 1981. Can someone please help me here?
-F.
The Grumman Metro was introduced in 1982, shortly after they completed delivery of NJT's 1981 870s. The press releases of the day mentioned that NJ Transit was a major key in many of the structural changes made, as NJT had hired a metallurgy expert to examine the frame welding procedures before they would allow their 870s to be built.
The change from "Grumman Metro" to "Flxible Metro" was simply made when Grumman sold the company to General Automotive in 1983. By the way, Grumman attempted to phase out the name Flxible - unlike the "Grumman Flxible 870", the only place the word Flxible appeared with the Metro was in the manufacturer name "Grumman Flxible Corporation".
This weekend, I'll put up my next batch of catalog scans - if I have server space, I'll include the Grumman Metro pamphlet.
That would be great; I look forward to your catalog scans. So Grumman tried to kill off the Flxible name, eh? Just as well that GAC bought them out in that case. Sounds like NJT was in for the long haul with the company if they examined the buses that well.
I thought GAC didn't come in until 1986? At any rate, I do know that the Flxible nameplate returned in 1983; Colonial Williamsburg had 1981, 83, and 85 models when I visited in 1987. In fact, one of their buses even had the rare (and horrible) squared fenders as opposed to the nicer looking round ones!
-F.
I remember seeing those semi square wheel wells on the Metro prototype. I was under the impression that it did make to any production Metros.
Wayne
I recall seeing them on a prototype photo in a book once; also, I think the square wheel well models in Williamsburg were 1985 models. They were hideous; I hope there weren't a whole lot of them made with those. Ugh. They ruined the look of the whole bus.
-F.
Yo listen. Those Buses are still 870's. You can F&^k with them as much as you like, and they will always be considered 870'2. Metro Panels Will be added to 870's sometimes like when accedents happen.
Regards.
David Martin Wiloughby
Transitalk.com&flxibles.50megs.com
DeShaun already established that. The 100 870s that were sent back to Flxible underwent ABR.
A post at New Jersey Online's Transit message board mentions that NJT has put the next batch of 325 coaches on hold until MCI addresses warranty issues. Specifically mentioned were brakes (and man, are those new Meritor brakes LOUD), driver and passenger seats, tires wearing out at just 14,000 miles, and electrical issues (MCI developed a multiplex system and customized dash just for NJT).
You're not kidding about the loud brakes. I was on 7559 today, taking the 409 from Trenton to Camden. The last time I was on a bus with such loud brakes were the SEPTA Volvo artics.
The Meritor "Q Plus" brakes are new to the industry, and the MCI NJT order was going to be the "acid test". My only question is, do these brakes ever really get a chance to heat up and seat properly? Think about it - the original MC-9s had a 6V92TA and HT740 powertrain - the brakes HAD to do all the stopping. The new D-series coaches have a Jake brake on the Series 60 and a retarder on the B500 that by themselves can bring the bus to a crawl. When brakes don't get a chance to heat up, they warp, squeal, and pull. Seems to me like NJT spec'd a coach that relies maybe a little too much on the powertrain to slow it down, even with the constant stop-and-go duty most of them see during rush hours. Most transit buses make do with just the retarder.
(For those wondering about the company, Meritor used to be Rockwell, so they're no stranger to bus axles and brakes.)
I wonder why an OTR bus would even be spec'd with a retarder? It doesn't even do half the stopping as a non-express transit bus. Seems a bit redundant to me.
-F.
[I wonder why an OTR bus would even be spec'd with a retarder? It doesn't even do half the stopping as a non-express transit bus.]
Many of the routes where NJTransit and the privates utilize the D4000's and their predecessors are very much like transit routes, with frequent stops, other than the non-stop ride to and from PABT or downtown Philadelphia. So they really do much more stopping than a standard OTR coach.
I don't think the D4000's have B500R(Retarder), but B500(Retarderless). Since the bus is equipped with a Jacobs Engine Brake, there is no need for a retarder. But NJT might have been special and requested this combonation. The reason I say they don't have them is because there is no retarder light on the front of the new D4000's.
Peace.
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
I do remember seeing a press release that mentioned retarders. I'll see if I can find it again. The 1987 MC-9s and 1989 Eagles did have HT748R transmissions, so NJT is no stranger to retarders on their OTR coaches.
I'm pretty sure it's the retarder that triggers the upper amber brake lights, because I don't believe the CNG MCIs have Jake brakes, and I'm almost positive the CNGs have the B500R.
The upper rear lights on NJT's 102-DWA3 CNG & D4000 Cruisers are not triggered by the Retarder or the Jake Brake on the buses.
Those upper lights come on, each and every time the driver lets off the accelerator. Much like DOT's TMC RTS-06's Rear two cicle amber lamps.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
That was my second guess... backing off the accelerator very harshly can also kick in the Jake.
To NJT's credit, they use the new "silent" Jakes. My office isn't far from the Saddle River Tours garage, and I can't imagine a charter group being able to travel comfortably in one of their H3-45s or 102EL3s with that dump-truck=volume Jake going off as they come to a stop.
i believe that the D-4000 have the b-500r.
I have look at The NEW NJ Transit Website. Looks Nice!
I hope Trevor Logan did the Website for NJ Transit.LOL!
But the only problem is: They Missing the MCM Routes timetables on the Website. I need to Download a MCM Route1 Timetable. Do anybody know when the MCM Timetables would be up on the site?
And BTW. Come to the site and see it for yourself. URL is: www.njtransit.com/
For timetables for the Morris County Metro routes, go to:
http://209.123.180.225/mcdot/mcmpage.html
I recollect the old NJ Transit site had the MCM timetables, so it's surprising not to see them on the new site.
By the way, I have been to the new site a number of times and about 50% of the time my computer freezes on me while browsing the site. Is anyone else having a similar problem with the new NJ Transit website?
My problem is that it slows my computer down to a snail's crawl!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Does the TA plan to publish new bus maps for Brooklyn, Manhattan, Queens, and the Bronx reflecting the new subway service? The latest ones I have are dated September 2000.
Michael
They must publish a new bus map for Brooklyn showing the B70's alignment using Fort Hamilton Parkway instead of 7th Avenue.
Was there ever a B101 or B102? I don't see any other reason for jumping from B100 to B103.
The private Hasidic line is dubbed B110. I would assume to give any future companies bidding for any new routes (If they are let for contracts) available numbers.
Last highest I remember was B88 Culture Bus.
I didn't ask about the Hasidic line. I am certain it is because they wanted a round number, and B100 is taken. I'm asking if there ever was a B101 or B102.
Yes at one time Pioneer Bus received a local route which was called the B-101. It was suppose to run from Kings Highway/East 16th Street Station to Ave L/E. 74th St.
The route was never implemented and Pioneer returned the franchise.
The B-102 I believe was an earlier varation of the current B-103 which was also opereted but later discontinued by Pioneer
BTW-This was all done prior to Pioneer going out of buisness in Spring of 1979
Thank You
Why is it that the lowest numbered Brooklyn bus routes are routes in newer parts of the borough that likely never were trolleys? Didn't the BMT have trolleys numbered from 1 to 9? According to The text file in this archive, it did. Why did so many routes get new numbers?
If any of you Flxible fans are honored enough to own this book:
Flxible - A History of the bus and the Company
READ IT! I has facts about the Flxible myths most of us worry about and gives us incite to answer back any questions these little anti-Flx people have.
Regards
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
How much does this book cost ? Where would I find this book in New York ?
Luke
Luke, it's all over eBay; prices range from about $20-30. Just look under "flxible" in the Search box. Happy hunting!
-F.
I have yet to see it; I hear it's a great book though. Maybe I could do a custom bus model trade with someone out there that has an extra copy? :) If so, I have a pair of small scale New Looks available...
-Fred
This morning over the Motorola console, heard a message - not all too clear - but something like operators on the shuttle are to layover at (someplace) and others are to pull into Quill.
Anyone know what's going on???????
The shuttle refers to buses parked at Quill middays. The drivers are bused back to SI.
-Hank
The shuttle that this is referred to is not a bus route that can be used for the public. Because some express runs from Yukon,Castleton and Ulmer Park lay up their buses at Michael J. Quill Depot for their swings and some of these swings are extremly long (some approx 6 hours) the drivers can go any place they want. Since you can not take a subway back to Staten Island Management agreeded to have certin runs which pull in and pull out from their depot pick up the drivers whose swing is at Quill. The drivers do not receive any extra pay for this. It does count towards their vehicle time however.
I know both Staten Island depots arrange for this shuttle but I am not sure if Ulmer Park operators have the same arrangement. Ulmer Park operators can use the new W Line train from Times Square to 25th Ave Station and then take the B-3 bus to/from the depot.
Thank You
Ulmer Park has a driver shuttle from/to Quill.
David
Thanks for the information David
When the New Flyer articulated's first came into service I rode them on the Bx12. As we were going down Pelham Parkway and the bus got up to a reasonable speed, I noticed a green light illuminate on the dashboard. This same light then extinguished itself when the bus began to decelerate. I asked the driver what the significance of the light was. He replied that the light indicated that the articulated joint between the two halves of the bus was locked into position. This prevented the two halves from swaying and possibly striking another vehicle in the adjacent lane.
When the problem of the articulated's sliding in the snow first surfaced last winter I began to ponder if that same mechanism that locks the the articulated joint at a high rate of speed could also be modified so that it could be manually locked at a low rate of speed i.e. 5 MPH or less. Let's say for instance that an articulated bus is pulling away from a bus stop in icy and slippery conditions and the driver feels the back end begin to slide. Would it be possible for he/she to manually lock the joint by pressing a button on the dashboard thereby preventing the back end from sliding? Is this physically possible or does it defy the natural laws of physics? Anyway, if a burnout like me can think of something like that then I'm sure New Flyer's designers, engineers and the TA's own technical staff must have found it to be unfeasible. What do you gearheads out there think?
The NABI articulateds currently have that feature on the WMATA units, so I don't see why the MTA couldn't request such a mechanism on the New Flyer units!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
what about that feature in septa neoplan units.
I'd be surprised to find out it doesn't already exist. Condsidering the route of the Bx1...
-Hank
Hello, again. What's the deal with this shuttle bus? I understand that it is "Fare Paid" Does this mean that it accepts/issues transfers? What about using the P.P.R. Metrocard? Will it deduct a fare after alighting from a bus-subway trip, say, atCanal (or Grand St.)? In other words, is there a three leg privilege, or not? Please advise. Thanks. Gerry.
I believe the shuttle is free. "Fare paid" meaning you've paid to access the subway at either terminal of the shuttle. Most subway shuttles (if not all) are Fare Paid, technically meaning free.
I've worked 5 subway shuttles and the LIRR shuttle. None charge a fare. The only fare I've ever charged was the Randalls Island Express shuttle, which cost's $3 one-way. Your return trip is "Fare Paid" ($1.50 each way).
Then it's $3 round trip.
-Hank
The signs in both stations certainly imply there's no additional charge to use the shuttle bus. However, the "Attention Grand St Customers" brochure includes the proviso, "The bus ride is free if you used MetroCard on the subway."
I'd like to give this bus a shot, but only if I can ride it and reenter the subway at the other end for free.
Does anybody know when the bus to DeKalb will start up and what its fare policy will be?
Starting this Sunday
Thanks.
I know it will run 10pm-5am on weekdays, when the M doesn't run into Manhattan. What about weekends?
I should have some info next week
I passed by a Hudson bus parked at the former M1 stop on Centre street and Canal today (The M1 moved up a few feet) for the subway shuttle - and had yellow sheet taped to side of bus saying fare was $1.50.
)-:
Did you notice the old bus stop sign while you were there? It's at that stop, by the corner (or at least it was, a month or so ago, when I walked from Grand to Canal to see how long the walk was for real).
It was a new sign - with the 2 sides of placards - with stickers saying SHUTTLE and CANAL STREET - close to the corner (NE) of Canal and Centre.
Was the old sign also there (it was way back near the corner) or (sob) is it gone too?
There are a few more left, on the Passenger Ship Terminal driveway. I don't know of any others.
Hello, again. Yesterday, I asked BCR in East New York. They told me emphatically that the shuttle requires a dip of the card without extending the 3 leg priviledge. That means that with P.P.R. you will be charged another $1.50 on a 3 (or4) leg trip. I wonder if the same policy will apply to the new Dekalb Shuttle, slated to begin next week, as per FDNY.
Has anyone heard definitively about the Grand to Dekalb Bus Shuttle startup date?
Do you have the routing info
Sorry, Steve, I do not, but I contaced BCR to send it to me. I am especially curious about the Broolyn routing.
Hi, there. Is there a three leg transfer available to and from the Shuttle Bus, or is it Fare Paid, requiring a (first and/or third )dip?With P.P.R. Metrocard, this would cost $3.00. Could transit issue a continuation type transfer at the subway stas.?
Spotted over the past couple of days:
GBL 5503 going the paper sign route. The Balios bright orange LED desintation sign was dark. i couldn't tell if the sign was intact though. I wonder about this now, because:
This evening GBL 5501 was spotted with the paper sign in the front window working the Q37. A glace up at the destination sign area shows wires! I couldn't get a look at the sides to see if the destination signs were present. Looks like the Balios has bit the dust at GBL.
Perhaps in their efforts to clean up inside their buses, the GBL maintainers just wiped the sign away :-).
Yes balios sign come in very fint in the sun.
I've seen GBL 5501 and 5503 before with paper signs in the windows.
Days later, the signs were back on. I wonder if Stengel's 522 has her sign still in tact? The last time that I saw her on the Q27, her sign was working.
#522 Q27
#5501 Q60
#5503 Q11
I too have seen the paper signs in the window, but the actual destination signs were still there. What was surprising to me was that 5501 no longer has the destination sign in the area where it would normally be.
Something funny happened on the N21 going home today. Instead of veering left for Glen Cove in Roslyn she went right, and had to back up and turn around (this is just before the viaduct). N21's make a left on Bryant avenue, N20's use the ramp up to N.Blvd.
She needed directions which one other passenger provided. This isn't the first time drivers got lost. One time a friend of mine had to direct the driver for the whole N79 route. Apparently supervisors don't always train a driver on a route, so the driver gets confused. Comical to say the last.
The wrong turn in Roslyn has happened to me three times before, once the driver went straight down Glen Cove Road to Glen Cove where we had to ride back on a Flushing bound N21 to get home. He should've turned around but once he realized his mistake we were almost in Greenvale!
That happens more often than you can imagine. Today, the "training" at the depot level is subpar at best. With so much emphasis on "safety", you would think that after the new operator graduates training school, the same emphasis on detail would follow and be provided at the depot level. Not so.
Depending on your work location and union, you will receive anywhere from one day to three days to "learn the lines". When your garage has many lines, that's almost impossible. The training would then carry onto depot line-training. Problem with line training is that emphasis is placed on driving, not on learning the route variations. Another problem is when the route you're training on has short turns, or doesn't complete the full route (or as in an express run, works only one-way in Brooklyn or Queens). You're left to fend for yourself on the return trip.
I can vividly remember working the B77 and taking the people right into Pathmark Parking lot. There were a good 30 people on there, and all of a sudden they had this very concerned look on their faces. I noticed my mistake, and announced that "My wife called for milk, we'll be moving shortly"! That lightened their spirits, I made a U-turn in the parking lot, and went about my business taking them home :-)
Another time working the M4, the SLD told me to "turn around at 168", so that's exactly what I did. Up Broadway, left on 168, left back on Broadway, and put up an M4 Penn Station sign. Pulled into the bus stop... opened the doors... but nobody gets on.
"What bus is this?", someone asked.
"M4" I said.
"Doesn't the M4 run down FORT WASHINGTON AVENUE??"
"oopsie!"
LOL
So I made another turn somewhere... back to 168th, and finally got to Ft. Washington Ave where there were at least 50 people waiting... and not very happy campers, at that!
Once, I took the B9 straight down 3rd avenue, rather than turning down Ovinton.... that was fun.
It happens when you're new. It really helps when the passengers understand. For someone who hates LIB so much, you showed a good sense of humor here. I'm sure she appreciated it!
My first time in Chicago, I was riding the bus route that loops around the museums and comes out on Michigan Avenue. The driver was clearly unfamiliar with the route and went around the loop a second time, in the left lane, bypassing all the stops (much to the dismay of those waiting). When he finally found the exit, he pulled off and stopped, telling us all to get on the other bus waiting there.
I was once on an M104 (back in NYC, that is) that took a slight detour to bypass a traffic jam. Specifically, a whole bunch of buses were piled up on Broadway between 72nd and 73rd (the block that's now closed to make way for the new subway entrance), so we ran up Amsterdam to 73rd (now the regular route), bypassing not only the jam but also a bus stop. It's a good thing nobody wanted to get off.
I have yet to get on a bus where the driver doesn't know where he/she is going. But that once happened to me mom when getting on the Bx22 out of Fordham Ctr. I don't remember the details of that, though.
This doesn't really count, but I was on an M104 that was forced off its route when the driver discovered, much to his surprise, that Broadway was closed in front of him. (It had been closed in the area earlier in the week and maybe even earlier in the day due to a water main break, but it had since been reopened.) He didn't have much choice but to divert over to Amsterdam, even though I don't think buses are really supposed to run on 84th Street over there.
I remember one time I saw one of the privates, (can't remember which)lost on the eastbound service road of Sunrise Highway. I assume he was trying to find Atlantic Diesel because he made it over to the westbound side. I originally thought he was trying to find the paint shop on 112. So all he had to do was follow Vets Highway all the way down. He couldn't possibly miss the place.
That happened to me a couple of time outside New York.
1. Santa Clarita Transit (northern Los Angeles County), route 798. The driver said that he'd never worked that route before; handed me his printed spec sheet; and asked me to guide him as he went along. AND he had pulled out a paratransit van instead of the normal over-the-road coach!
2. Ann Arbor Transit Authority, route 2. The driver got to a corner, stopped, and asked the passengers if he was supposed to turn left (weekend routing) or go straight (weekday routing).
3. NJT, route 313. The driver was conversing with a couple of passengers (including me - oops!) and neglected to loop through the town of Woodbine. Given the 313's irregular headway (3-4 HOURS!), he had no choice but to turn around and double back.
Well, some of these routes can actually be confusing, especially if you have to make all of these turns and such.
I'll give 'em a little credit, the roads here in Northern Nassau are VERY confusing.
Every now and then, a new operator will enter the Henry Hudson Parkway while working the M4 at the Cloisters loop turn-around in Ft. Tryon park. Thankfully, I wasn't one of them.
That's a very easy mistake to make, and there's no way out until Dyckman Street -- and from there there's no convenient way to rejoin the route until way down at 181st Street or thereabouts.
I rode a subway shuttle on which the driver got very lost and required passenger navigation. Since these shuttles are not sanctioned as regular routes, the drivers are usually fill-ins, and, according to the one we had, not trained on the route. They're just given a piece of paper outlining the streets to take, and they're off and running.
The shuttle in question was a replacement for 'F' service between Kings Highway and Coney. When the Highway-bound bus headed east on Neptune Avenue instead of north on Shell Road, we wondered what was going on; when we reached Sheepshead Bay, it was very apparent the driver was lost. When we finally got him headed up Coney Island Avenue, he began to pull over to pick up people waiting for the B68!
If a line has branches (BX16, B38, 41, Q16, 83), or if the driver regularly works two different lines that run together for a long distance before splitting (N20/21; Q25/34; Q20A/B), human nature or fatigue may cause him or her to make the wrong turn at the point of divergence.
Having grown up on one branch of the Q16 home, I can't begin to count how many times panic would break out as we would turn right on 26th Avenue for the Utopia branch instead of continuing on Francis Lewis Boulevard for the FLB branch. The driver would USUALLY apologize.
(This branch arrangement was unusual in that both branches of the Q16 has common terminals on either end of the line- the Flushing subway terminal and Fort Totten- but would diverge and rejoin midroute. I can't think of any other city bus route that does this; normally separate branches lead to separate outer terminals. NJT's Main/Bergen lines run in a very similar fashion to the Q16.)
During the 1983 Metro-North strike, Liberty Lines implemented substitute bus service from Westchester to Bronx subways. At least one news show featured a disgusted commuter reporting that the drivers had to ask passengers directions to the appropriate terminal.
Supposedly, casino bus drivers don't know what to do if the Turnpike is closed. A co-worker stated her driver got hopelessly lost in Rahway for an hour till a passenger bailed them out.
Over 20 years ago when I lived in the Canarsie section of Brooklyn and took whats now the L Line(then LL) service was suspended between Eastern Parkway/Broadway Junction and Rockaway Parkway during the evening rush hour. The TA started a bus shuttle at once and started pulling buses from various routes in the area(B12,B20,B22,B25,and the B56) Well they pulled a B-20 bus which was then operating out of Fresh Pond off his run,loaded him up and said go to Canarsie. He did not know how to get there so the dispatcher told him ask the passengers.We got him there and when he saw the gates for Rockaway Parkway Station he was in shock. He could not believe that a bus actually enters a subway station.
Another time i was on a LI Bus N-36 and do to a police action there was a detour the driver did not even know how to get around it.
Thank You
This reminds me of a ride I once had from NYC to Ithaca.
The bus was operated by College Express, which chartered its buses from Leisure Lines.
The drivers of the regular weekend runs knew the route. For breaks, though, many of the drivers had no idea where they were going.
One fine Sunday morning, a bunch of buses were lined up on 3rd Avenue near 42nd Street. Most were going to Binghamton and Ithaca. I boarded one that the dispatcher announced was going straight to Ithaca College and Cornell. Four hours later, I was somewhat surprised when we exited the highway in Binghamton. We stopped at the designated Binghamton stop. Of course, nobody got off. Apparently the driver didn't know the route, so he just followed the bus in front of him.
After a few minutes of sitting around for nothing, even the bus driver was getting antsy. An Ithaca College student in the back offered to direct him back onto the highway and up to Ithaca. The offer was accepted and off we went.
The approach we used into Ithaca took us by the Ithaca College campus. The student who gave the directions asked the driver if he'd be stopping at IC first -- no, he said, he wasn't going to IC at all. (Some display of gratitude that is!) The driver eventually agreed to let one of the three IC passengers off on the side of the highway, where he could walk onto campus and drive to Cornell to pick up his friends and their luggage.
[(This branch arrangement was unusual in that both branches of the Q16 has common terminals on either end of the line- the Flushing subway terminal and Fort Totten- but would diverge and rejoin midroute. I can't think of any other city bus route that does this; normally separate branches lead to separate outer terminals. NJT's Main/Bergen lines run in a very similar fashion to the Q16.)]
The only other current mid-route branchings I can think of are on the M14 (via Avenue C or Avenue D between 14th and 10th Streets) and the S51 (most trips operate on School Road, a few loop through Fort Wadsworth)
A few others which operated many years ago...
* Bx1 - alternate trips diverted via Bedford Park Blvd and Paul Avenue to serve two apartment buildings (some politician's mother-in-law lived in one of them);
* M3 - alternate trips via Convent Avenue;
* M16 - Trips to/from 42nd Street Pier via 8th or 10th or 12th Avenues (westbound) and via 9th or 12th Avenues (eastbound);
* M16, M34 - Trips to Waterside used either 2nd Avenue or FDR Drive.
* M104 (northbound only) - alternate AM peak and midday trips used 6th Avenue instead of 8th Avenue.
What about limiteds? The M2 Limited takes a more direct route from 9th Street to 14th Street than the local M2.
But do they run at the same time?
No. When the M2 is running limited, it's only running limited. Local passengers can use the M3.
The M1 and M1 Limited run at the same time, and the M1 Limited takes the same shortcut as the M2 Limited -- but so does the local M1.
I've heard of times at LI Bus when there are delays at Community and Northern that N/B N25's go via Macy's parking lot then left onto 25a to Great Neck. I don't think more than one or two stops were missed. I can definately understand that, as the backups often lead to bad bunching on the N25.
Also I've had LI Bus drivers take the left lanes, turn lanes, shoulders, even go through traffic lights on the N20/21 to keep time. And knowing the frustrating traffic on Northern Blvd between Great Neck and Roslyn, I can understand! :-)
N.Blvd in Queens at least the lights are timed right, but in Nassau they have them set up you have to stop at every one. Apparently NIMBY's don't want speeding, so we have to sit at every freakin light.
"I've heard of times at LI Bus when there are delays at Community and Northern that N/B N25's go via Macy's parking lot then left onto 25a to Great Neck."
I doubt they would use private property for a detour unless directed by the police.
murf
I've seen LIB use the Green Acres Mall parking lot to get around the traffic during the Christmas season.
Keeping the signals untimed is a great way to promote heavy speeding, as motorists try to catch the next light before it turns red.
A better way to enforce the speed limit is to time the lights at the speed limit itself. There isn't much point in speeding on the strictly timed Manhattan avenues -- and every Manhattanite knows that the most reliable way to drive from Houston Street to 125th Street in just over 12 minutes is straight up 1st Avenue (add a minute or two if congestion by the Queensboro Bridge causes you to hit a red).
Exactly. On Northern it pays to speed, as stopping at one light may mean you'll have to stop at the next one as well.
EXAMPLE: On the eastbound lanes of Northern Blvd, between Searingtown Rd and Old Northern Blvd there are two lights. By the time the traffic gets to Old Northern after the Searingtown Rd light turns green, the Old Northern one turns red. This causes a backup all the way past the Americana.
Posted by Qtraindash7 on Wed Jul 25 20:41:12 2001, in response to Re: LI Bus driver gets lost, posted by David J. Greenberger on Tue Jul 24 23:29:53 2001.
Exactly. On Northern it pays to speed, as stopping at one light may mean you'll have to stop at the next one as well.
EXAMPLE: On the eastbound lanes of Northern Blvd, between Searingtown Rd and Old Northern Blvd there are two lights. By the time the traffic gets to Old Northern after the Searingtown Rd light turns green, the Old Northern one turns red. This causes a backup all the way past the Americana.
It never "pays to speed". Speeding is against the law, a violation of the NYCTA rules and regulations, and while behind the wheel of a bus- just plain stupid.
We are _professional drivers_. Our job isn't to satisfy your need for speed or "make lights" so you might not have to sit and wait for another red light at the next intersection. Our job is to transport passengers safely, and without incident. Our job also includes avoiding accidents with people who drive with the mentality you display here in this situation.
Here's a clue: If you can't make a light driving at the speed limit, then you're not meant to make the light. It's called regulatory signaling, and it's meant to break-up traffic intentionally. If you constantly find problems at a given intersection, then state your case to the NCDOT and request they check the signal for proper timing.
There's also something called reverse progression, which means you are traveling against peak flow traffic, which will force you to stop every 2-3 lights. Again, it's intentional, to give the traffic on the opposite side of the road an even flow of progressive green lights.
If you're stuck against progressive signaling, just deal with it, and accept it. Or, write to the NCDOT and express your problem.
I don't think either of us was talking about buses. (I certainly wasn't.) Every time a bus stops the signal progression ahead becomes irrelevant.
We were discussing two different approaches to timing traffic signals. The approach used generally in Nassau County -- and in most of the country -- is to space signals relatively far apart and either not pay much attention to their timing or time them deliberately to try to slow traffic down. The invariable result -- safe or not -- is that people speed to try to catch that next green (or yellow).
The approach used widely in NYC, particularly in Manhattan, is to space the signals very closely but to time them so that traffic moving at the speed limit will continue to hit greens. That removes all incentive to speed, except for minor adjustments within the moving green phase. It also, incidentally, removes the potential for accidents as traffic enters an existing traffic stream, by allowing such movements only when the avenue has the red, and gives pedestrians many safe places to cross. Of course, except in limited circumstances this approach can't work well for traffic in both directions on a two-way street, nor can it work well for both east-west and north-south traffic. NYCDOT solved this by making most avenues one-way and by neglecting east-west flow, which is the smaller portion of most Manhattan drives. Despite its flaws, I don't know why this sort of street hasn't become popular elsewhere -- it seems to me to be a reasonable compromise in those (many) places where the drivers are pushing for a freeway but the residents don't want the typical outcome of a freeway slicing through a neighborhood.
Unless I've been missing them for the nearly 17 years I've been driving the LI Bus routes N20-21, I have yet to discover or see the (per Qtraindash7) two lights between Searingtown Road and Old Northern Boulevard. I'd really like to know exactly where they are as I may have been passing them when red without ever seeing them. As far as I know (and, as of today when I last drove this route), there is a light at Northern Boulevard and Searingtown Road and then the next is at Northern Boulevard and Old Northern Boukevard. Please inform me as to the exact location of these two lights I've never seen..... (nor have any other drivers). All LI Bus drivers are anxiously awaiting to find these missing lights.....
Joe, Thanks for your input !
BTW, His photo is elsewhere on this site, so the next time he boards your bus you can say hi ! Recently several of rail/bus fans, incl. Q Dash 7, shared each others company for several hours. Even the LI Bus N4, N15 & N33 rides were pleasent ... well at least mine were.
Would you be willing to comment on the health, maintenance wise, of the LI Bus fleet ? Our friend seems to feel it's not too good, yet a collegue at Mitchell Feild seems to feel the opposite (he's not in the bus maint. dept.). Personaly my observations, mostly from the outside & southshore, would seem to agree with my friend at the Depot.
Does anyone know to what extent LI Bus does maint. at the Rockville Centre Depot ?
Disclaimer: I have no other reason for asking besides being curious.
Mr t__:^)
Well 80% of the breakdowns I've seen have been on the N20/21. The hills, traffic, and heat of the north shore is a major contributing factor to all the breakdowns I've seen or experienced.
Good Morning
I am looking to update my routing materials for the LI Bus Routes--all of them .
If any operator can assist me,,please let me know
thanks
Steve
FDNY
914 668 9218
Well hello! I ride on the N20/21 ALL the time. You probably have seen me. I usually take the 8:29, 9:32, or 10:32am runs out of Glen Cove, and coming back it's usually the 4:39, 5:03 or 5:37pm runs back. Well The TWO lights are at Searingtown Rd and Old Northern Blvd. I'm sorry if I confused anyone. The lights you mention are the ones I'm talking about. That N20/21 is a tough route, with all the hills, traffic, and stops. The bottleneck points on Northern Blvd seem to be at Searingtown, Old Northern, Community Drive, Plandome Road and Great Neck Rd. Evening and Sunday runs seem to go fairly well with the traffic. But weekdays and Saturdays are terrible. Those damn lights cause all kinds of problems because they are set to slow traffic down, which makes no sense in the middle of rush hour. There's the delay between Searingtown and Old Northern, plus the Community drive area. Since you do drive the N20/21 I'd be curious about your opinion on the route. It's quite busy, especially with the mobs at Great Neck. It's quite hard to stay on time with all the stops, traffic, and hills. As I said in another post, the terrain on Northern is a challange for any bus.
The N22,22A, and 24 seems to be easier to deal with when I take them, since the lights are better and there's little hilly terrain. Since you have been driving for 17 years I betcha the N20/21 wasn't bad at all 5-10 years ago. It's when the yuppies started building large homes up on the north shore, and an SUV for every member of the family, that things started to get out of hand.
"and coming back it's usually the 4:39, 5:03 or 5:37pm runs back"
That should be 5:40pm, not 5:37pm, shame on me!!
I may also be on the 6:54pm as well.
John, Maybe the driver was distracted by you buzzing in her ear about what a lousy bus company LI Bus is ? Or was she oriental ?
Seriously I surprised that the driver got lost if she "picked" for that route, or was she off the "extra board" ?
BTW, there is always the radio if they realy get lost.
Mr t__:^)
Isn't the "clever devices" thing (the auto announce) supposed to help a lost driver?
Not at all. That's a "Speak Easy" public-address system that can be used to record the BO's voice which will play 3 times when the front doors are open.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with navigation.
Personally, I never use that. It's annoying, and nobody listens to it anyway. They just yell louder (over the pre-recorded message) and ask "Local or Express" as my message repeats:
"This is the Q46 making all local stops to Kew Gardens. Step in. Stand clear of the closing doors."
:-)
But the version used on LI Bus announces the stops ahead of time, similar to the new subway cars, e.g. R-142s. I've rode the N15 a couple of times & it seemed to work ... didn't notice anyone paying attention ... maybe they were all regulars.
Mr t__:^)
"But the version used on LI Bus announces the stops ahead of time, similar to the new subway cars, e.g."
True, and I forgot about the difference between the 2 systems. Even so, knowing the name of the next scheduled stop doesn't necessarily mean you know how to get there. If you're not familiar with a particular area, the names of streets provide no help.
It's important to make notes of landmarks while learning a line. If for whatever reason, the street sign is missing at a given turn, and you don't have a familiar landmark, you're in trouble.
I would always jot down a visible landmark one block before my scheduled turn.
No the voice is computerized and from Clever Devices, several LI Bus drivers told me.
For one thing, bus drivers are human beings too....and they also make mistakes just as you and I do.
I've been driving buses for 28+ years now, and I feel lucky that I am blessed with a good sense of direction and haven't ever really gotten "lost". Made a few wrong turns in my years of driving but always somehow managed to get back where I belonged.
So if you are on a bus being driven by a driver unfamiliar with the route, instead of putting the driver down for being unfamiliar, why not calmly ask the driver if they could use some help (IF you REALLY do know how to help, if not, do NOT make the situation worse.)
Again, please remember that drivers, no matter what agency or company they work for, are human beings. We're not super-human (as many passengers seem to think).
I'm not blaming the driver. I'm suprised that some drivers aren't trained on some routes and have to "wing it", that's all.
Newly hired drivers at most agencies are NOT required to know each and every route. Our agency has about eight dozen routes. Drivers are trained for six weeks. During the six week training period, a driver is lucky to train on fifteen different routes during the part of training that involved going out and driving routes with the Behind-The-Wheel trainer. No routes are indigenous to any one division (depot in NY bus idiom).
So when a newly hired driver "hits the road" it is very possible that they are on a route for the first time, and could very well be unfamiliar with a turn, or a bus stop location. And the fact that agencies are required to hire on an equal opportunity basis, that also includes opportunity to those who have just recently moved into the area of the agency as well, so they, too, might not know every street in their areas. Usually they are "extra board" drivers and have a different route every day they work. And at our agency, many work shifts consist of interlined routes (i.e. you work a round trip or two on one route, then switch to another at a common terminal.)
I've been visiting/reading/contributing at BusTalk almost since its inception, and it amazes me how other contributors get so bent out of shape over some little thing done on buses as has been "reported" in here. It sounds like some of the posters have absolutely NO idea what it is to actually WORK as a coach operator (bus driver) and think they know everything there is to bus operation just because they ride the bus to/from school abd naybe around town on the weekend. Driving a public bus is NOT the easy job it looks to be. Trust me, us bus drivers are not just sitting up there on our fat asses just for the fun of it. There's a lot more to the job. And though I have been driving for 28+ years, I still learn something new every day.
Just to show you that it isn't the easy thing it looks to be....our agency is CONSTANTLY hiring new drivers. Every three weeks a new training class starts, and there are 15-20 new candidates. For the past five or six years, maybe four of them stay with the agency through their probationary period. They get out in the "real world" and find out that driving a bus isn't as easy as sitting on one's ass, and quit because they can't take dealing with all the aspects of the job.
Yeah driving buses is a very hard job, especially on the routes on the north shore. With traffic, curvy roads, and high volume driving the bus takes a LOT of patience.
Today Northern Blvd in Manhasset was a mess. I was taking the N23 to Manorhaven, which had to be detoured up middle neck road to Pt.Washington Blvd. Westbound northern blvd was completely shut down between Searingtown and Old Northern. As we made our way up Port WashingtonN Blvd I saw an N20 bus that came 10 minutes earlier, going south. It must have had to go up Port Washington Blvd to turn around. The driver must have missed the left turn onto PW Blvd. Going back the westbound lanes of Northern were still closed. It took 10 minutes just to make the left from Pt.Washington Blvd to Northern, as an eastbound lane was closed as well. Supervision was already at the stop in front of St.Francis, where N20/21 Flushing bound passengers boarded. There were passengers waiting for a westbound N20/21 in front of Landmark diner, oblivious to the road closure even though there were no cars on the road.
It appeared that a person was struck on N.Blvd with an extensive police investigation. This went on all afternoon. If you know the area then you know how the reroutes happened. I was going to Greenvale from Port Washington, and got the N27 at Roslyn as N20's in both directions would be running late. That was the worst traffic jam I ever saw. Putting all those cars on 25a onto side streets, wow what a mess. Again from what I saw all S/B and E/B service on N20, 21, and 23 routes was normal. Going west, N20/21 ran up middle neck, then left on Port Washington Blvd, stop in front of St.Francis, then make a right back onto N.Blvd. N23's ran via middle neck as well.
As now I have had the opportunity to ride both the X17 and X31 via NJ Turnpike, need to address an issue that has been mentioned before - GOVERNING of the speed of buses.
Govern the locals - fine - excepts ones that have parts on highways and bridges - like the S53/79/93.
Govern the EXPRESSES - unless it's set at 65MPH - it's useless.
After crossing the Goethals, we went to the HOV lane and were going fine and then no faster. A little bit later, the driver moves over from the left lane and a few MCIs in the 6100s and 5100s, and 7000s and 8000s from NJT and Subsidiaries fly by us. When there is open road - it is better to move faster - the exact purpose of OTR Coaches. Now if more MTA expresses went to Midtown via NJ - would save A LOT OF TIME (from the last X17 pickup to first drop off in MIDTOWN - no more than 30 minutes!!!) - governing has to go or be set higher.
I think the B/Os for NJT, like Trevor will probably support my observations as he drives for NJT - and as far as I know, I don't think their buses are governed. Correct me if I am wrong.
Greyhounds are governed at 67 - they feel that is fast enough to keep with traffic and maintain a level of safety.
why 67 why not 65mph.
It's 67 to allow buses to pass if necessary. Remember, southern and western states have speed limits of 70 and 75 mph.
that a odd number for a govern.
Are you sure about Greyhounds top speed? I ask because several times I've paced them at 70 MPH plus. Also, recently I helped a friend move from MD to NC and we used Ryder Trucks that were governed to 65 MPH (They did manage to hit 70 on a downgrade), but Greyhound MC-12 were flying past us.
Wayne
The new ones (102DL3/D4500) are governed at 67. MC12s were originally governed at 57, but had them removed when the national 55mph speed limit was repealed
I'm surprised that they actually govern Greyhound buses. I remember quite a few times while driving in which I had to get out of the way of a 'hound that was on my tail, and I would be doing about 70 MPH in those instances!
No speed limit in any area an NYCTA bus operates is higher than 55mph. There's simply no reason to allow them to go faster. The driver risks summons, and the operating carrier is liable for damage and injuries that may be caused due to exces speed.
-Hank
Do not agree, there are times when, as a driver, it is required to have the ability to speed up to maybe get around something.
Peace,
ANDEE
I can't think of needing to speed up to get around something when stopping is a better idea.
-Hank
"I can't think of needing to speed up to get around something when stopping is a better idea.
-Hank"
I think he saying that like a Moveing Turck unloading stuff, A Dodble Park Car,A Broke Down Car,Stuff like that. And if the B/O stops. It cause Delays!!
OH MY GOD!!! WE'VE PUT SAFETY OVER THE SCHEDULE!!! Stopping is still a better idea.
-Hank
While what you say about the 55 mph speed limit is correct, it is not practical. A huge majority of traffic on the NJ Turnpike travels over 55 mph when there are no traffic slowdowns. There is no reason the NYC Bus MCI's should not be able to do 60 mph to keep up with traffic. I'd recommend setting the governors to maybe 62 mph (or not setting them at all).
Amen to that. And, I'm not even a very religious person. That 55 MPH crap is pretty ridiculous.
Wayne
around here in philly i seen people go sixty on streets
Rode the X17 again this morning via NJ and again we were being passed. Is there any way to lobby the TA to change the govern - on Expresses and also any locals that have highway parts?
I always hope to get one of the few MCIs that can exceed the govern.
Their response will be NO. Why? Because the law says that 55 is the maximum allowed speed, that's why. No reason to enable drivers to endager themselves and their riders, and leave the Authority open to liability in case of an accident.
-Hank
In this day and age even to limit the buses to 55 MPH is no guarantee of not being sued. How about if a NYCTA bus is rear-ended by another bus and someone files a lawsuit against the NYCTA claiming that they were negligent because the buses were being operated on a highway in which they could not keep pace with the flow of traffic.
Frivilous??? Yes, it may be, but I wouldn't be suprised.
Maybe someone should inform those TA decision makers that folks are no longer driving Ford Model T's.
Wayne
Any lawyer who files such a lawsuit should be discharged. You can't be held liable for obeying the law. What would be the point?
-Hank
the way that the new njt pick up they probady have a top speed of 80mph.
Some of our buses do 80 easy, I've gotten a couple of them to do so!
But for the most part our buses are cut back to 65-70MPH.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
That what upseen bus going 80mph easy.i know that the geo metro car
can't reach 80mph.
SIKE!
My mother owns a 1996 4-door Geo Metro which I've gotten to do 80 MPH smoothly! Flxible METRO-D #1975 (DaShawn) can attest to that sinces he has ridden with me in it before!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
hmm that something. i always that the geo metro was the slowest that was ever made for the street.
Slow, not really. Cramped, rough-riding, poor accelleration...Yes.
-Hank
Very True!
Impressive for a little car!
PEace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
You must have had your feet through the floor Flintstone-style; my ex-fiancee had a 92 Geo Metro convertible, and I was blessed (sic) with driving this little piece of crap for two months while my car was in the body shop.
I had to floor it to get to 25, it would BARELY pull a hill, and everytime I opened the driver's door with normal strength, it would pop out and the spring would go through my hand. One time this happened when I opened the door and she saw it...and how does she respond? "Aw...poor baby...are you okay?" Not hardly. She proceeded to call me stupid and say that I have no concept of how things work, whether they be a faulty door handle that I "knew" would snap or a relationship. Nice response, huh?
On a bright note, the car (and our local TA) kept me mobile for the summer....all thanks to Geo Metro and Valley Metro. (If only we had FLXIBLE Metros...then that would have rounded out the full circle.)
Also, when I began to attend board meetings to form our local trolley museum (which is now thriving), she said that I should spend more time with her and taking care of her dog and not "fooling around with those stupid buses". Never mind the fact that they are a part of our local transit history and that I grew up riding them, making them special to my life as they were a part of me! Had I listened to her, who knows where those poor Flxibles, New Looks, and such would have gone without my help and enthusiasm in the museum?
She was a real piece of work. And that's one of the reasons I'm glad to be rid of both her and the car. I went through that kind of crap all the time.
-F.
Downhill...in neutral. With pre-diet Al Sharpton riding shotgun. And a semi on the bumper.
-Hank :)
PS-I've gotten a rented Escort to do 110 on the West Shore Expressway, and was lucky to get away with it.
-Hank
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!
You are a lucky one indeed to get away with that! Especially on the West Shore Expressway, and you lived to tell about it!
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Living wasn't an issue. The section of highway I was on is usually heavily patrolled.
If the Geo Metro is the one with the 1.3 4-cylinder engine, I'd bet it would go a bit over 80 MPH - especially if it's a stick. The 1.0 3-cylinder version will probably stuggle a bit.
Wayne
The Metro with the 1.0L 3cyl does struggle. Which is why GM put the newer and larger engine in the car in the mid - 90s.
All the same, I would never buy a car like that. It's only 90"-110" long, and I'm 6'2". A poor mix.
I'm sure that by now NJT (and operators at the other companies) know that NYCTA buses are basically "tied" down. I do understand the decision to equip buses with speed governors from a legal point of view, but there is also a reality (read: common sense - which the NYCTA does not have!) point of view. If you're using the highways... we all know you're safer when you keep pace with the flow of traffic. When the conditions are good we all know that NJ Turnpike traffic flow at 65 MPH plus. I'm not suggesting that the buses should drive as fast as the cars, but 55 MPH is just too slow - and again (from a realistic point of view) a hazard to themselves and other motorists.
I always say that I don't think there's a slow bus in NJT's fleet. If the TA insists on having these ridiculously low top speeds then... they need to keep their buses on NYC highways.
Like NJT buses, here in the DC area buses from WMATA, Ride-On, DASH, PRTC, etc are able to keep up with the flow of traffic.
My goodness - I must be something in the air down at 370 Jay that affects the decision-makers, because they are just stuck on st****.
Wayne
.I seen buses in septa have the lowest top speeds such as 40mph
To the original Poster - Enigma6903 - any diesel engine bus has a governer that will control maximum engine speed. It would be irresponsible to enable an engine of this type in this kind of service to be run without a governing device as overspeeding a diesel engine will quickly and easilly destroy it.
Engine speed can be governed at any particular speed but typically is up at the top end of maximum operating speed for that engine ( i.e. a four cycle diesel engine governed at 2,200 RPM.)
Therefore a vehicle's actual speed could be controlled by controlling top engine speed. From what I know, this is how maximum speed of much of the older equipment (e.g. Fishbowls) was controlled.
It's also possible to control top speed electronically as I believe the current MCIs, Novas, Classics and others are.
My two cents on the idea of limiting speed to 55MPH - Ridiculous. Greyhound governed their buses for many years before during and after the national 55MPH limit at speeds ranging from 68-73MPH (depending on the individual bus.) They allowed their buses to run at those speeds as they knew that:
1) Virtually nobody drives at 55MPH - not now and not in the past.
2) Slow moving vehicles of any type frustrate other drivers and tend to cause dangerous passing and other bad behaviors that are more likely to lead to an accident than running ten miles over the limit will.
3) The idea is to draw customers and not drive them away. Forcing a bus to run at a slower pace than the majority of traffic irritates the riding public - the customer in this case - as well as other drivers and all for no particular good.
So how do we fix all this??
Either set a realistic speed limit for buses only (should be at least 65 MPH on interstate highways with bus lanes - in the bus lane) or change the speed limit for everyone else anyway as just about anyone else is driving at 65 or faster inspite of the 55MPH limit.
Recent statistics show that after speed limits were increased to 65MPH in New York and New Jersey, the accident rate has dropped.
Let's get real about the speed limit. And let's get the geniuses at the MTA to wake up. NJT has no worries that their buses can do better than 70 MPH. Last month, an older Flexible passed me on Route 80 clocking 72MPH near Patterson. And New York Bus Service has some Classics that will do 65 and a few old Fishbowls that will probably do 80 if you give 'em a chance. So let's not stand on foolishness.
BTW - anyone who can honestly say on this board that they never drive over the speed limit has a right to disagree:)
Dave,
RE: Your two cents. I totally agree with your statements. In my earlier post I used terms such as "legal" and "realistic" and to have a few buses limited to 55 MPH along with scores of others keeping pace with the flow of traffic is simply ridiculous (and dangerous).
Wayne
In PA. There's a LAW on that Buses to do upto 55 MPH on Highways and 60 MPH for CARS.
nyct buses are governed at 58 mph. im talking about mci coaches. all the other buses pass me by as i return not in service on the njt. the speed governing at 58 mph is ridiculous.
What Express route do you run on usually and what's your run # on this route?
Where do you live and work, so I can stalk you?
-Hank
so that mean that it the govern lay at 65mph it real top speed is 65.than it need any one more gear.
The Gillig website is up and running. Just go to www.gillig.com and see the transit bus that everyone loves to hate. They look okay to me. Then again when all you drive is a !@#$%^&* RTS, anything looks good!
That website looks like something I could have made. And wasn't it you that said "Long live the RTS!"
Does the Gillig Phanton deliver True Made in america Valu?
Is there a website for the RTS bus? Thank you.
There sure is; i believe it's www.novabus.com? RTS people, back me up on this; I may be incorrect as it has been a while.
-F.
Yes, it is www.novabus.com. THat is the website of the NovaBUS corporation, as I know it. Check it out. I've been there; that is where I saw an PDF-formatted article about the "RTS Express", I played with a page which allows you to play paint your own RTS or LFS with a selected paint palette, and a place where you can see a photo of the LFS in a crash test. It's okay, could be better. There might be more than I say there is, so check it out!
CWalNYC
I don't think the colour your bus thing is working anymore though, unless they fixed it.
Wow...I'd love to paint an RTS on their website! Actually, I'm getting ready to paint an RTS...it is a 1:64 scale diecast model and will be a WMATA version.
-F.
Yeah
Yeah NovaBUS.
Sorry for the double posts.
Hmm...looks pretty good to me; it covers the basics. It looks a LOT better than that stale pic of a low floor that sat at the site for the last few years. Also, I like how they point out the use of standard-size wheels on the Advantage.
I must say the job opportunities page is tempting...it would be neat to build real buses for a living in addition to models.
-F.
I totally agree. The Advantage was actually the first low floor bus I ever heard about. Anyway, Gillig seems like a really decent company, and do you see how they worship the Phantom? Rather amusing, but they are actually decent, I mean, I've never really ridden a bad one, and I can say I have ridden some fairly pathethetic buses, even a few of SEPTA's beloved Neoplans (the 8000 series need replaced windows and some of them look really poor, and 8700 needs to have a clean deseil engine, it was smoking up Lancaster Ave today on the 105, and there are some really slow 3000 series, like 3209. 8698 is perfect though, hehe). As for RTSs, I'm sure if they were looking the way they were meant to, they'd look pretty nice, but I've seen a lot of dumpy ones out there. I've never realy seen a dumpy gillig, but anyway, the front design of the bus it pretty ugly. However, it would have made an awesome school bus if they had produced it.
Hopefully, with the R5 "Fort Washout" (the term I use for the bridge wash-out at Ft Washington on the R5 Lansdale line) Bus Bridge between Ambler and Jenkintown now complete, some of the 8xxx Neos will finally be retired. Although, the retirements may be held off until later this year, since the New Flyer order has been delayed yet again.
the 8xxx and like 1 13xx should not be retired until septa are very sure the the 200 new flyers arrival.other if someting goes wrong septa don;t have enough buses to cover it.
patkylekenny
Gilligs are fairly good buses; we've had them here in Roanoke since 1988 and with very few problems. The Phantom is their main seller; it has been in production since 1980 with very few changes and is one of the longest-running transit designs in history. Yeah, the front end styling is a bit dumpy looking; I think they should retrofit the sleeker-looking low floor front lights on it to smooth it up. The Gillig Advantage is the best looking low floor out there in my opinion; it is only second to the New Flyer Invero, which I like for its retro styling cues.
Actually, the Phantom was produced as a school bus; it sold that way from 1982 to 1993.
-F.
Gillig in the 80 look that more like buses in the 70's.
Huh? I don't quite understand that statement..
-F.
Those are some real slick sketches of futuristic buses they have on the site. I wonder if they are any hint of what will replace the Phantom one day?
-F.
They could be. However, I think they could improve the look of the Phantom a bit, like making a wrap around window like they have for the advantage. Just a little touch here and there and it'll be beautiful.
True; like I say, the Advantage headlight treatment (reminiscent of the 870/Metro) and a few tweaks could make the Phantom a better- looking bus. We had our Roadeo here in May; some of Blacksburg's drivers (who are used to Flx Metros, RTS, and New Flyers) said the Gilligs were "ghetto-looking" compared to theirs. I agree, especially next to Flxes and RTS.
-F.
Yesterday, I passed the Laidlaw yard on 25A and I saw a sign that says they're hiring drivers, great benefits, free CDL training, yada yada yada. I though they were in financial trouble. Maybe they need lots of drivers, whether they're broke or otherwise. In today's paper, one of their mini buses got into a wreck with a school van from Dell Transportation. One of then didn't heed a yield sign, and the other didn't even slow down. The van suffered the worst damage. Just another setback for Laidlaw.
As I understand it Laidlaw is a large company. IIRC its from Canada, so one wreck, which may not have been the fault of their driver, which is probably covered by insurance won't financially hurt them.
As far as that company needing drivers, go past any school bus yard or pick up the help-wanted section of Sunday Newsday and you'll see ads for almost every school bus operator looking for drivers.
There was an item in the June 29th issue of the NY Times about Laidlaw's continuing problems. The article said that their problems got much worse after their purchase of a hazardous waste management company in 1998.
Mr t__:^)
I was riding the 95 to Plymouth Meeting the other day (Friday) and was on Neoplan # 3209 (it was very slow, even for a Neoplan)in Conshohocken. Anyway, I saw another Neoplan also operating the 95 route going in the other direction towards Gulph Mills. When I looked at the destination sign to see whether it was a 95 or a 97, it appeared to have a bi level destination sign. the route number was showing 095 and then the Gulph Mills Rail Station destination was displayed as bi level. I couldn't believe my eyes, and I am still unsure as to whether I really did what I thought I saw. Does anyone know of any experiments SEPTA maybe be doing with a Frontier Neoplan bus? I'm just really sorry I wasn't able to catch the bus number.
On an additional note, I find it interesting that during the weekdays on the 95 El Dorados and Breeze buses are used, while on Saturdays Neoplans are used on regular runs during the day until the evening or so. I suppose there is a higher ridership on Saturdays, which I find rather interesting.
You saw Neoplan #3200 witch have that headsign made by Twinvision.
95 Neoplan AN440#3200
When did they put that on?
Eather 1998 or 1999 I think.
Do 30 Foot Buses run on Saturdays also and NABI's run on 95?
NABIs never run on the 95 (they are way too wide for that route, you should see the narrow streets the buses have to follow!), and you can catch the El Dorados 30 footers on Saturdays around 3pm or so. I think the first 30ft bus may actually be the 2:30 bus from Gulph Mills.
OK. Now have you ever took photos also? And also I could be rideing the 95 in August on a Saturday I think.
I saw a NABI on the 95 once, and that was about two months ago. Apparently, the 95 and 97 are through routed at Penn Square in East Norriton, though I've never seen a Breeze van operating the 97 - actually, I haven't seen a Breeze van on the 97 in at least two years. On that occasion - a Sunday - I saw Breeze vans at Norristown operating on the 93, 97, and 98 (I believe a 40 ft Neo operated the 99, while a 35 ft Neo was on the 96).
Speaking of the 96, a couple of weeks ago, I saw 4532 operating on the 96 between Lansdale and Norristown.
Did you get a photo of that ElDorado on 96?
As a matter of fact, I did. I won't be able to upload until tomorrow at the earliest, due to some scanner problems.
OK. I just want to see it! And I got a Question. Do ElDorados run on 96? And what buses would you see in Norristown on Sunday?
The bus you're talking about is Neoplan EB #3200. The sign in question is a TwinVision LeDot. Apparently 3200 was used as the "guinea pig" for the TwinVision signs. The sign was retrofitted sometime around 1997-1998. The only other Neoplan 3xxx series bus to have radical differences is EZ #3414 (presently assigned to Comly after spending most of it's time at Allegheny), which was either retrofitted or originally built with a DDC Series 50 engine and an Allison transmission. I don't know for sure, but I think that 3387 may have a different transmission than the other 3xxx buses.
i rode on #3387 it had a zf trans.
Well, I think it might have been a different ZF transmission, possibly a 4 speed instead of a 5 speed on the other 3xxx buses. To me, 3387 sounded different than the other Neos, so I'm not really sure.
It probaby have a transmission slip like neoplan#3378 or 3376.Any way i think i hard form some web sites that the 3000's series
neoplans have 4 speed in stead of five speed.
patkylekenny
Nope, the 3000's do have 5 speeds, next time you're on one look on the left side of the instrument panel the gear selector is there and it reads [R N D 4 3 2 1]
while on the 3400s neoplan it read [RND321).there is a picture of it at ctrabs site.
No instead it side [123DNR]I find a picture of it at this site.
here
I used to wonder why during the times the bus drivers are suppose to open the back doors, they always came to a complete stop, unlike the times when they open the front doors. However, on an El Dorado and today on a Neoplan (8699) I realized the reason. Apparently, when the back door is open, there is a lock on the brakes or something like that. When I was on an El Dorado at the mall, and the driver obviously was forgetting to close the back door, he tried to drive off, but the bus wouldn't move. And, on the Neoplan today the driver tried to open the back doors while coming to a stop. However, when he did, the bus came to an abrupt stop, startling everyone. I had thought this might've been a new feature on new buses like the El Dorado, but I never realized that this technology could also be found on much older buses. How old is this technology anyway?
It started getting implemented in the MTA buses in around 1985 or 84, correct me if I'm wrong...You are talking about the good old interlocking system my friend...
There has been an interlock on the rear door of every TA bus as long as I've been alive (27 years next month).
The New Looks, AFAIK, had nothing fancy -- if the driver tried to unlock the door while the bus was in motion, it stopped abruptly. I think.
Early RTS models would beep if the driver tried to open the door early. Only when the bus was stopped (or nearly so) would the switch actually work. Many drivers swung the front door open early and let the rear door beep-beep-beep-beep-beep-click as the bus came to a halt.
Later RTS models (beginning around 1986, and the feature was later installed on some older models as far back as 1983) have the so-called modified interlock. AIUI, this requires an extra stomp on the brake both before unlocking and after locking the door. I never understood the purpose of this change (in the first few years, when drivers weren't used to it yet, it caused many delays), but the TA has used it ever since it was first introduced, so there must be something good about it.
Buses delivered within the past five years or so also have an interlock on the front door, which won't open until the bus has slowed to a crawl. This has also slowed service. (Back in the old days, a bus could pick up a fearless passenger without even coming to a complete stop. This happened on the M17/M79 at 81st and Amsterdam once in a while -- I was even once the fearless passenger.)
I once seen some B/Os on Queens Surface operate their RTS with the front doors open. In that scenario (and b/c of it) I assumed that the DOT - contracted bus lines don't require the interlock on their buses.
Deadheading OA buses used to do it often years ago when A/C wasn't maintained.
Wayne
On an RTS its not to safe to open your fronts and operate because the RTS fronts opened out and hung out about 6 inches, and in New York that can mean the difference between taking out a bicyclist or pedestrian. However on the Orions and older equipment this is not a problem.
I loved operating the 1700's and 2500's-2600's because there was no modified interlock. So when your last customers were getting off you can floor the accelerator and when that back door shut, boom! you were gone.
The interlock has been used by some as a brake instead of using the actual brakes, as I've noticed some WMATA drivers doing as well as Shuttle UM drivers when I worked there. The only problem with that was one time a Shuttle UM driver put the interlock on, forgot to put the bus in gear, forgot to pull the emergency brake and went around and shut off the battery, which shuts off the interlock as well, and the bus rolled backwards about 10 feet smashing into a tree. Luckily, it didn't hit anyone else.
To clarify, I meant that they use the interlock as a brake at a light or a bus stop rather than keeping their foot on the actual brake at all times during the stop.
i know on septa nabi have the type of brakes when they push
the brake padel down it locks.
The rear-door interlock feature is nothing new. Most transit bus models since the 1940s have come with that feature. Any differences you have seen in the day-to-day operation of interlock is due to whether or not the feature is engaged. On some models, the driver may disengage interlock by the simple flip of a switch. Some TAs spec their buses with front-door interlock as well; this is newer.
"On some models, the driver may disengage interlock by the simple flip of a switch."
I don't know about the other buses, but on NYCTA RTS buses, it's 2 switches. One on the drivers panel, which is a momentary-open (meaning it must be physically held in place to close the circuit), and another switch elsewhere (to ensure that the MRDI isn't accidentally activated).
There's a third area where the MRDI or RDI may be completely deactivated, but that's behind an overhead panel which only BM's may access.
On the PenTran 1976 and 77 Flxibles, the front doors have an interlock; they cannot be left open while the bus is in motion. If the door was to be opened while it rolls, the bus will literally SLAM itself to a stop.
How they survived Virginia service this way I'll never know; it has always been state law that buses must have the front doors open when crossing railroad tracks for safety reasons. Perhaps Hampton Roads doesn't have as many tracks as we do in Roanoke (which was founded as a railroad town), but we disarmed the system in order to use our preserved PenTran 76 Flx no. 621 throughout town for events.
The same bus, by the way, will also undergo restoration beginning tonight during our work session. I'll keep everyone posted on its progress.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
It's the same at Syracuse Centro and Buffalo/Niagara Falls NFTA. The front doors on all of their buses had a interlock that would not let the bus move until the doors are shut. In Syracuse, the next stop bell will ring once when the doors are shut, indicating to the driver that it's ok to depart. NFTA Orion I's, and '90 MCI CLassics, the doors had to be completely shut, while in other models, the doors can be halfway shut for the bus to move. Also, here in Utica, UTA buses ('99 Orion V's)unless the driver takes his foot of the brake when the front doors are open, the interlock doesn't engage. Is that common?
B61 Leonard
I'm not sure if that's common, but I have heard of buses outfitted taht way; if I'm not mistaken, the New Flyer LFs at Blacksburg Transit have that type of interlock.
-F.
Our new NABI's out here in California are that way....you must bring the bus to a complete stop and keep slight pressure on the brake pedal to get the doors to activate. Same thing to release the interlocks once the doors are shut.
I know it sounds like a pain in the ass, but it is to ensure safety of the passengers. Once you get used to the system, it's no problem at all. After all, we're supposed to be keeping our foot on the brake whenever stopped anyway (but I know a lot of us drivers have developed a bad habit of NOT doing so on occasion. I've caught myself doing it now and then. Bad driver!!)
Yeah...sounds crazy, but safety is a great reason for it. Which part of CA are you in? You should send pics of your NABIs for all of us to see....those are nice-looking buses. They kinda remind me of Flx Metros.
-F.
I am in Orange County, CA -- 30 miles southeast of Los Angeles where I-5 and SR55 meet (Tustin).
I drive for the Orange County Transportation Authority. Have been there almost 12 years now int he 28 years I have been driving buses of every sort imaginable except trolleybuses.
One of these days I'll go out and shoot some photos of the stuff I drive....
Cool; do that. We'd all love to see them!
-Fred
Door interlocks have been around since the year of the flood. (The one with the Ark...trust me, I've been around ALMOST since then!)
Basically, on older buses, the interlock came on the moment the driver set the door control handle into a rear-door open position. It locked up the brakes, and also the throttle. Buses did usually have a "Door Master Switch" located somewhere up front. The standard location on GM fishbowls, for example, was on the lower toggle switch panel to the left of the driver's seat cushion. (Other switches there were for the passenger signal -- chime or buzzer -- and the interior lighting.) I've also seen the door master switches up on the destination sign hatch (Chicago) and under the dashboard in the cabinet on the right side of the bus (RTS's).
Activation of the rear doors (i.e. unlocking or opening them) would cause an abrupt, usually unsafe stop. And, some cities (San Francisco being one that I know of) had front doors interlocked as well.)
Newer buses have the "Speed Switch" setup in the door circuitry. This will prevent the rear door or interlock from doing anything when the bus is above a certain speed (usually a couple miles an hour). The Gillig Phantoms where I drive have a warning light on the dash that illuminates when the door is able to activate (i.e. Speed Switch activated). The New Flyers do not have warning lights but still have the Speed Switch system in there. From experience, I can tell you that the Speed Switch IS hooked up to the speedometers -- had a speedometer stick on 0 MPH one day, and the speed switch light stayed on (and the rear door could be activated at speed -- I tried just to see!!)
Also on the newer buses with the electronic throttles, the interlocks are set so that a driver cannot activate the throttle until the doors are fully closed and interlock released. Flooring the throttle before the interlock fully releases results in only about 1/4 of full engine power being allowed to build up.
I also remember GM "old looks" having a foot treadle or step-on plate to activate the rear, bi-fold, doors. Can you elaborate on this?
Peace,
ANDEE
Absolutely. Our museum has just acquired a 1958 GM 3714 "Old Look" that formerly served here in Roanoke; it is equipped with the treadle. Basically it covers the whole rear step and allows opening of the door; however, the years have not been kind to the treadle and it is badly swollen and cracked beyond repair. Whether we can find a replacement treadle without disengaging the interlock remains to be seen. Hopefully we'll find luck.
-Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
YOu might want to try Canada! TTC in Toronto and all outfits around it still, to this day, uses those steps for the rear door. Maybe they have some extras.
B61 Leonard
No kidding! TTC still uses the old treadles? Are they the same as the ones used in the late-model Old Looks? Also, how long were these used on new buses? Please advise as I'd like to know more.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Have you ever seen buses with rear doors that automatically unlock when the bus stops and lock when the bus moves?
The CUMTD's New Flyers have rear doors that open on their own power when a passenger touches the bar on the door, as long as the green light is on. (There is no "kerchunk" as the door unlocks.)
Normally, the rear door unlocked when the driver flips the usual lever. On one ride, though, the green light went on every time the bus stopped -- at bus stops, at red lights, even when the bus stopped in the middle of an intersection to wait to turn left. It went off by itself when the bus started moving. It's possible this was a defect in the light -- I was tempted to test it but I didn't want to cause an accident -- but is this setting typically available on buses? It seems quite dangerous.
The CUMTD has a small fleet, so it's likely I rode each bus in the fleet multiple times, yet I only witnessed this once.
The situation you report about the rear door activating every time the bus stopped for traffic lights, etc. WILL happen on New Flyers IF the driver leaves the wheelchair lift key activated. Not advisable to do so, someone might just try and go out the rear door when the bus is not in a safe position!!
The wheelchair lift on these buses is at the front door. Why would the wheelchair lift key unlock the rear door?
First, it would do so because it is wired into the interlock system, regardless of where the lift is. The wheelchair lift/ramp key not only activates the lift/ramp, but sets the interlock.
Secondly, just because New York City orders their buses with the lifts or ramps at the front door doesn't mean everyone else must do so. Many properties have rear door lifts/ramps, believe it or not. The agency where I drive got D40LF's with ramps at BOTH doors. We also have our Gillig Phantoms (ugh!) with rear door lifts only, because for some strange reason, all our Phantoms came as 96-inch wide buses and front door lifts weren't available on the narrower Phantoms for the longest while (or so Gillig said at the time....)
Actually, my example wasn't NYC -- it was Champaign-Urbana, IL.
That's funny; all of our Gilligs here in Roanoke are 96 inches wide and came with front door lifts when new in 1991 and 94, not to long after the ADA act of 1990. Our older 1988 models were later retrofitted with lifts as well. In fact, I never knew there was such a thing as a rear door lift on a transit until I came to this message board.
-F.
I think the bit with rear door lifts started with the GM RTS's, and agencies just wanted to keep things somewhat uniform.
Strange as it seems, a Gillig representative is the one who said they couldn't put a lift into a 96-inch bus....but our 1983 Gilligs most certainly did have them!! Yet our 1988 and 1989 Phantoms had rear door lifts....and I've seen MANY agencies that have 96-inch Gilligs with front door lifts.
Maybe it just goes to show that the folks at Gillig don't even know their own products well. I could relate a rather LONG story about some direct dealings I had with Gillig back in 1984 just to show how inept the folks are that run that company, but I'd rather not waste the time. Believe me, the incidents on one day in March, 1984 right at the Gillig plant were more than enough to assure me the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing up there.
Just to add to this discussion, our RTS had a twostep rear door activation system. Well, some of them did. The driver could turn on the light and the passenger could open the door or the driver could open the door (on a few buses).
One day, on bus 2070, at about a speed of 50mph, the driver activated the rear door. The green light came on and the bus died down from a roaring sccream to a gentle hum and coasted to a stop. In the posistion I was sitting (the loudest place on the bus), I could have easily reached over and pushed the tape and opened the door. Good thing I didn't.
Also, on the Flxibles and Ikarus, they couldn't pull off if the door weren't all the way in. The had passenger "push-out" doors. They would swing back in but sometimes they'd get stuck and a passenger would have to pull them in. They never caused major delays like some of the RTS rear door troubles.
I once caused an M79 to stop in the middle of the block. The bus was crowded and I was getting off at the next stop, so I stood in the stairwell. I guess I was leaning gently on the door handle, and, without realizing it, I activated a then-new feature that slows the bus. Whoops. The driver yelled at me, I apologized, and we were off.
The doors on the early NYC RTSs would occasionally not close all the way and a passenger would have to give them a hand before the bus could move. The 1983 model seems to have solved the problem.
A driver on one of the old CUMTD Flxibles once asked for a volunteer to sit in his seat and flip the door switch while he did something to the door itself.
I was on a S78 one morning (I think it was 2450) and the driver went to pull away while the door was open - a lady was still getting off and doors open - AND THE BUS MOVED LIKE 50 feet before we jerked to a halt.
Front or rear? Front is no big news, since the 2400's don't have a front door interlock. Rear is.
REAR.
There is an acutal delay in the braking effect when the driver steps on the pedal. But it sounds to me like the slack adjusters need to be looked at. That bus should not be in service until the problem is fixed.
It's either retired/scrapped or remanufactured - as it was in the 81-82 RTSs
Our PenTran 76 Flxible is that way; sometimes the rear door is stubborn and will not close. When this happens, the bus will not move; thankfully this hasn't happened too often but it is irritating when it does. Is there a way to fix that?
-F.
Open and reshut the doors. That usually works. Or get a can of WD40 and saok down the hinges!!!
Thanks for the advice; I'll forward it to our museum president and we'll give it a shot. We just sanded down the body last night; hopefully next week we'll get to mask it off and get it ready for the new silver paint on the sides.
-F.
Good news :)
The 5300's series Flxibles will be around for another 3-5 years :)
First CTA will scrap those ugly Brick Mans and then they can choose to remove a few Flxibles.Also Flxibles will be rebuilt after the RTS vehicles, so after the 1991 Flxibles the RTS vehicles should retire .
CTA will have the option on removing Flxibles whenever they choose to buy new buses in 2004 maybe .
The MANs were definitely in bad shape last time I was in Chicago, so that's a good thing they are being replaced. What buses were suppose to replace these? I know that Chicago is getting NABI low floor artics to replace the MAN articulateds, but what 40ft buses are replacing the MANs? Anyway, it would be nice to keep those very unique Flxible buses around for a little while longer.
The Nova LFS is going to replace the Man's(a good looking bus but the engine tends to overheat in Chicago ). The run down parts of Chicago recieved them first because people in the area call it injustice better North got some New Flyers and they got a bunch of Flyers and Bricks.
Yes the NABI's will be sweet :)
Oh good! Remind me to get to Chi-Town ASAP.
-F.
What's the deal here? Usually most buses for Kings Plaza actually say "Kings Plaza," with an occasional "Kings Plz." Now it seems to be half and half almost. First of all, why did they create that abbreviated sign in the first place? Was it for backup? And does it have its own code?
Well, I dont know about the Kings Plaza sign and all that, but using common sense I would say those are 2 separate codes. For one thing, if you program something to say Kings Plaza, how would it know to abbreviate it or choose to abbreviate it. The only messages that come up should be the ones that are only programmed into it. So, as I said I would tend to think its 2 different codes.
Jason D.
Hey, don't feel confused. I have a list of bus destination signs from all the five boroughs. This list is NOT from busman9293's page!!! An updated list. It has the "B40 Kings Plaza" Now, correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm not) but last time I checked the B40 bus does not go to Kings Plaza---right?!!!! Of course not! The point is that whether it's Kings Plz or Kings Plaza---the MTA is screwed up with it's signs! Two more examples, the B49 or B68 sign has "OICEAN" Pkwy---notice the way ocean is spelled. Also, the BX12 to Fordham Plaza has "B12" to Fordham Plaza!!!! It's too weird!!!
Ray
Ray, can you forward or e-mail me this site?
Thanks!
Sure, go to www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Haven/9293/destsigns.htm
You will find all of the 1998 information there. Busman9293 has not updated his stuff yet.
Ray
Hi all
I had difficulty getting into the site---NO LUCK AT ALL
For WebTV users such as ourselves, the hyperlinks aren't active from BusMans site. Simply copy and paste the relative path into the "go to" box, then access each page individually.
i tried ,,it did not work for me--i guess i am webtv illiterate!!!!
Steve
So you saw that infamous "B12" sign on the D60s too, did ya?
Actually, no. Trevor told about that and basically he does not lie about these things. The way the MTA does its destination signs, it would not surprise me if I really do see it. It's only on the "B12 to Fordham Plaza" only.
Ray
It's happens only rarely, during times of heavy traffic and delays on the roadways. But whenever it does happens, and the B/Os have to change the signs to read "Fordham Plz," it'll be sure to confuse plenty of people.
I meant the one NOT from BUSMAN9293's page
I know about that one.
If you mean the list that I'm talking about? The one that I mentioned in my first post? I can't tell you where--it is not on a website but I got it from a secret source.
Ray
Saw this one out of Hudson on the M6 at South Ferry this afternoon - Completely repainted and looking good.
The license plate had the Engraved 4211.
Now is this the real one or the 34XX one??
If this was the 34XX one, wouldn't the engraving be 34XX instead of 4211?
Someone I think had the real 4211 stored on a roster.
Here we go again. A bus that is supposed to be retired soon get's repainted instead. I guess in about another week or two it will be scrapped. History repeating itself over and over...
BIG AL
Can someone explain the story with the swapping of the 3400 bus for 4211?
And was this infact the real one since the license plate had the 4211 engraved, not 34XX.
GMC-RTS #4211 is ex #3496 & the real #4211 is already scrap in Nimco.
Peace
David Justiniano
Few questions.
NJT units - some have the new design paint scheme and others have the old. Why not make them all the new design? - it looks better and always a change is better to update with the times.
Why are there no rear route signs on these, like the MTA counterparts?
Academy and DeCamp have the best new paint schemes for these buses, in my opinion.
Be careful with the word "subsidiaries" - that would mean a company owned by NJT.
The only MCIs on the "old scheme" are the CNGs which were a separate purchase - that's also why they have the all-white body.
The reason they weren't ordered with rear signs is because the private carriers didn't want them. Most of them don't use route numbers (notable exceptions are DeCamp and Rockland), and unlike the run number sign on the dash, splitting the order with some having rear route numbers and some not was a structural issue.
Academy's paint job looks MUCH better in "full body" striping. But I agree, with your selection of DeCamp - this paint scheme looks better on these MCIs than it does on their Prevosts.
I just wish they had painted the front door - that all-silver break kills the paint jobs.
Can someone please tell me how you change the fonts and colors? I saw a site for AOL stuff, is it the same?
< font color=blue > have no spaces
Can you chang the Font to Futura Black?
Are they More hideous than the american neoplan buses?
No, they're not.
But the German ones are REAL pieces of shit. I drove them for a few years, working for a tour/charter company.
The reason the German ones are crap is that they are NOT built to United States standards, safety, or otherwise. Reason being is that over in Europe tour operators have to compete for the business by having the newest stuff available; no old tour buses in use when trying to get valuable customer contracts. So, they build them like motor homes, cheap and quick. They look nice, but all the interior fittings come loose going down bump roads. And they have all sorts of oddball engines that really aren't suitable for the USA. One of the nes I drove had a 12-cylinder, air-cooled Deutz engine. You didn't dare let it get low on oil.....that's what cooled the engine. I think it took around 26 GALLONS (not quarts...) but the damn thing would FLY. It would cruise at 85 miles an hour easily if you didn't watch out. Rode well, steered like crap, and you almost needed a hard hat on while driving to prevent injury from the falling nuts, bolts and body panels!!!!
Your telling ME THAT GERMAN NEOPLAN BUSES SUCK?
BTW Are you talking about the german neoplan transit buses or the motorcoaches?
Caoches. Specifically, I drove N116/3 Cityliners, N117/3 Double deckers, and Spaceliners (I forget the model number) as well as Jetliners. The Jetliners were the worst in quality. The baggage doors were just a piece of heavy sheet metal, no bracing, and no two of them were the same size (though they appear to be from a distance). You remove one and it has to go back exactly where it came from (such as during maintenance).
I've also driven newer ones made in America....and they are a thousand percent better. Other than the fact that they look the same, you'd never know they were the same manufacturer, the difference is that much. The Stuttgart stuff is junk, the Lamar/Honey Run stuff is great.
NOw do german neoplan TRANSIT buses look hideous?
NOw do german neoplan TRANSIT buses look hideous?
That depends, some of the older transit buses are pretty plain. On some models the windshileds are reminiscent of the Neoplan USA Transliner. Those are rather plain looking but their more recent N-4416 Centroliner low floor bus is pretty spiffy. Maybe Neoplan USA will get the license for that sometime down the road.
Any photos of german neoplan transit buses?
I don't think so. I haven't seen too many photos of them, but the ones I have seen closely resemble the original N416 models delivered to Atlanta and Milwaukee....they have a slightly different roofline, etc.
Neoplan doesn't really make too many transit buses; their main production seems tobe over-the-road tour/charter types in Europe.
They suck BIG TIME!
The American made counterparts are MUCH better.
I arrived in the city at 8:30 and I noticed a couple of things, things to me were----weird!
I saw my first bus on the Horace Harding Expwy and Douglaston Pkwy, it was 4913 on the Q30. Then, I saw bus 295 on the Q27 (I think) but whatever that number was---was a number that was repowered. Here's the weird thing, I saw bus 280 on the Q27----NOW this bus was repowered but this bus had an exhaust pipe sticking out higher and further out than normal. I would compare this bus to a GBL bus or even a QSC or Command CNG Orion bus. The pipe was new and bigger than the pipes on te other repowered Orions. Remember, check ot bus 280---weird! Next, I saw buses 4943 and 4907 on the Q88. I finally saw buses 613 and 626 on the Q75 and later I saw bus 611 on the Q88. I also saw bus 627 on the X68 and saw buses 9547 and 9554 on the Q17 (both repainted) and then on Hillside Av---I saw buses 627, 4554 on the Q77, 7037--do not know the route, 8968 on the Q17!
To speed this up because I'm not like the other people who do longer tales about their day, here is a list of the rest of the buses:
QSC - buses 468, 485, 519, 911
GBL - buses 284, 276, 604, 1180, 5508, 245
JBL - buses 3849, 3861, 518
MTA LI Bus - 153, 209, 591, 138, 606
Other MTA buses - 7010, 7008, 9362 (repainted), 4598, 4594, 3905, 4499 (finally I saw it), 4327, 9062, 8123, 9561, 4643, 9598 (repainted), 650 and 576 (possibly with a pipe mpved to the top, same engine--just the pipe moved to the top)
Let me know what you guys think about my day. I have not been to te city in about two months. I live on Long Island. Speaking of LI, I think Suffolk Transit is painting it's buses black and white like it's 35 ft Orions.
Ray
I arrived in the city at 8:30 A.M. and I noticed a couple of things, things to me were----weird!
I saw my first bus on the Horace Harding Expwy and Douglaston Pkwy, it was 4913 on the Q30. Then, I saw bus 295 on the Q27 (I think) but whatever that number was---was a number that was repowered. Here's the weird thing, I saw bus 280 on the Q27----NOW this bus was repowered but this bus had an exhaust pipe sticking out higher and further out than normal. I would compare this bus to a GBL bus or even a QSC or Command CNG Orion bus. The pipe was new and bigger than the pipes on te other repowered Orions. Remember, check ot bus 280---weird! Next, I saw buses 4943 and 4907 on the Q88. I finally saw buses 613 and 626 on the Q75 and later I saw bus 611 on the Q88. I also saw bus 627 on the X68 and saw buses 9547 and 9554 on the Q17 (both repainted) and then on Hillside Av---I saw buses 627, 4554 on the Q77, 7037--do not know the route, 8968 on the Q17!
To speed this up because I'm not like the other people who do longer tales about their day, here is a list of the rest of the buses:
QSC - buses 468, 485, 519, 911
GBL - buses 284, 276, 604, 1180, 5508, 245
JBL - buses 3849, 3861, 518
MTA LI Bus - 153, 209, 591, 138, 606
Other MTA buses - 7010, 7008, 9362 (repainted), 4598, 4594, 3905, 4499 (finally I saw it), 4327, 9062, 8123, 9561, 4643, 9598 (repainted), 650 and 576 (possibly with a pipe mpved to the top, same engine--just the pipe moved to the top)
Let me know what you guys think about my day. I have not been to te city in about two months. I live on Long Island. Speaking of LI, I think Suffolk Transit is painting it's buses black and white like it's 35 ft Orions.
Ray
In the repowering program, there are occasionally some engines with longer tail pipes than others. That all depends on how it was assembled and placed inside the bus' engine compartment.
7037 was on the Q46 yesterday. The QSC buses you saw were along Union Tpke on the QM1 and QM1A. I had 9362 on the Q46 and she was repainted and regulated but I don't know at what speed. You can tell because the bus just doesn't want to go any faster. I think she was regulated at 40 mph.
576 does it sound the same or different? That's how you can tell if it was repowered or not.
#9362 Q46
#576 Q27
#468 QM1A
It was parked at the last stop (Merrick Blvd and Archer Av) on the Q20A/B or Q44.
Ray
She is now part of the Flatbush family. She joins 5100-24. Of course, she was on my favorite FLA route at Bway and Malcolm X Blvd.
B46#5099MikeLimited
Did she get the Flatbush Quality Control decal? If not, then maybe FLA needed a spare quick and UP had one. Otherwise UP maybe kicking out alll of its locals really soon. There was a discussion about UP going all express not so long ago on this board.
I've seen a few 5075-5099 on FLA. I think I saw 5081 or 5091 {couldn't tell but it looked like one of these} on the B49 for example. I thought it was just for the day or something b/c some depot may have had extra buses or was short, but now I'm giving it more attention since Bustalkers are addressing it.
Speaking of short on buses-here's 1 for ya: While I was on 7024 on the Q46, I saw 4584 on the Q44 going towards the Bronx Zoo. Why doesn't Stengel get the Express Coaches over there from Edgewater to use in revenue service? Are they o/s for repowering? Will they get scrapped? Did people complain that much about Coaches on local lines? I doubt that they'll get local seats in them since there are raised platforms inside. Speaking of Coaches on local lines: 617 was on the Q30 or Q31 wasn't sure but it was along Utopia Pkwy.
#4584 Q44
#617 Q31
Back in 1995, Jamaica and Casey Stengel had split the Q44 bus route. The Jamaica Q44 always went to the Bronx Zoo or Hugh J. Grant Circle or Parsons Blvd in Whitestone. The Casey Stengel Q44 always went to the Bronx Zoo or Main St-Roosevelt Av. Of course, with the addition of the buses 631-680 from Yukon back in 1998, Casey Stengel retook the Q44 route altogether. So, that is why today it would not surprise me to see a Jamaica bus on the Q44. Now, Trevor has told me that it is possible that the express buses (101-172, 611-630) will be converted into local buses with regular seats because the MTA has order another 300-400 MCI buses for Brooklyn and Queens. The buses at the Edgewater storage will be repowered----the Orions that is! Those other buses (3800's, some 4000's and a few 1000's and 2000's) will be scrapped soon.
Ray
The 300-400-bus MCI order for NYCT is a RUMOR. It is UNSUBSTANTIATED, and, in fact, UNTRUE.
A look at the agenda for this month's MTA Board/NYC Transit Committee meeting will show an order for 20 -- that's TWENTY -- MCIs. By the way, every other forward-facing seat will have a handhold on these buses.
David
"every other forward-facing seat will have a handhold on these buses"
OK
Clarify this - they will be the same seating set up as the present ones.
Also, FINALLY they got the idea and decided to put handles on the seats - like NJTs - they really need them if there are to be standees.
They should put them on all of the present fleet, as well as NOVAs and Orions.
Also, any chance of having the folding metal footrest like the Orions have? They are really better.
Yes, the FLA depot sticker is on her. I beleive that originally, 5075-5124 was all heading to FLA but the amount of buses was split half and half between UP and FLA.
B31#5100Mike
If that's the case then look for buses 5075-5099 could be with Flatbush but I doubt it because Flatbush is getting some Articulated buses soon, like next year.
Ray
To answer your questions, UP is in the process of sending 5075-5099 to FLA in exchange for 9382-9406. I believe NYCT would like to keep all of the ZF transmission buses together.
Mark
Thanks a million!!!!! I thought the 9400's along with the 8400's would be a mainstay at FLA.....
thanks! Any word on FLA's suburbans and if they're staying there or getting more?
Today I saw 5081 on the B44 and 9440 on the B15. Both buses had their respective depot stickers on them.
B15#9440Mike
B44#5081MikeLimited
"Both buses had their respective depot stickers on them."
Is that the stickers of the depots that the buses used to be in, or the respective sticker for the route they were on?
5081 had FLA depot stickers on her. 9440 had ENY depot stickers on her.
B78#5081Mike
B60#9440Mike
I havent seen many of the 5000's on the B1 route in the last few days. Primarily i have seen 9200's and 9300's. If UP is supposed to get #9384-#9406, when are they to arrive?
IDK. 9393 on the B44 Friday. Other obsevations: 5090 was on the B49 at Dean St and Franklin Av yesterday with FLA depot stickes on her. 9443 was on the the B14 this morning at ENY/Pitkin/Howard Avs with ENY stickers on them.
B14#9443Mike
B44#9393MikeLimited
B49#5090Mike
As I was in the city today, the bus stop at Hillside Av and 169th St was getting overcrowded all the time. I used to live near there and it would be an overcrowded area with traffic from the Q30 and Q31 picking up people and Q1, Q2, Q3, Q36, Q75, Q76 and Q77 dropping off people. So now the Q2, Q3, Q75 and Q76 bus stop has been moved down the next block. The corner of Hillside Av and 168th Pl! The last time a bus stop was at that intersection was back in December 10th, 1988 when the Q42 bus use to stop there before Parsons/Archer-Jamaica Center was built (It opened on Dec. 11th, 1988). it was the Q42's first stop before going to St. Albans.
The reason why they have been moved was because of across the street! Usually bus stops are across the street from each other. The Q2 and Q3 are at Hillside Av and 169th St going east towards Belmont Park and JFK Airport. The Q76 is located at Hillside Av and 168th Pl going towards College Point. The Q75 is across the street from the Q30 and Q31 bus stop on Hillside Av and 169th St with the Q17 going towards Flushing/Oakland Gardens.
I saw this today and I figured that I would let you guys know.
Ray
There have been postings regarding buses in movies and in Pop Culture.
This Friday night I am going to Hecksher Park in Huntington to hear my favorite accapella group THE PERSUAIONS perform at a free concert. I am bringing the three vinyl albums that I have of the group and hope I can get at least one of them autographed. I think that it would be nice after owning them for 30 years.
Anyway one of the albums is entitled "STREET CORNER SYMPHONY". The cover has a picture of the 5 members (one has since passed on) standing on what appears to be Fulton Street, Brooklyn. In the background are two FLXIBLE NEW LOOKS. Cannot tell the route or bus number but probably were NYCTA buses.
I guess you can go to any music selling website and pull up a picture of the album.
Anybody have any other albums with bus pics on them ?????
Ahhhh, record albums, I remember those...lol. Actually I have this import jazz record album which was part of a series featuring various jazz musicians. On the front cover, there is a picture taken around the Times Square area with two NYCTA Flx newlooks. One bus looks like a 7300 series in blue. The other, in white, a 7800 series. I cannot quite make out the number on the rear window but looks like 7834. Both buses have the ad racks on the AC grill but the 7800 series bus is fully shown. I have another from the same record series with a night picture from I think LA with a rear view of an Oldlook in traffic. There was also another album which I never did buy that had part of a picture of a NYCTA 5500 series bus with a piece of its batwings. BTW, none of these are probably in print anymore.
Crap. I want a copy!!! I love jazz and it makes for great bus music. Can you scan the cover for all of us to see? What is the title and artist of the album?
-F.
The album with the NYC newlook Flxs was part of the "Europa Jazz" series, EJ-1040, an Italian import. It features Charlie Byrd and two other artists. I doubt these were ever pressed into CD's. I don't have a scanner but I could try to find someone else who does. BTW, the photo of the buses is only 5" X 3".
That's OK; as long as they're on there. Please do scan it so we can all see.
-F.
Yes, we have discussed buses in pop culture; it is one of my favorite subjects here on BusTalk. Flx New Looks on an album cover? To quote Les Nessman of "WKRP in Cincinnati"...."OOOOO-OOO-OOOH!". I mean, I'VE GOTTA SEE THIS!!! That is may favorite bus of all time!
There is also an alternative/punk band that shows a pair of Fishbowls side to side on their cover. One, I believe, has a destination sign that reads either "Diversey" or "Clark Diversey". I also know someone who wore a band T-shirt which showed the same two buses in red and white. This struck a chord as the New Looks we had here in Roanoke were in the same colors (and looked great too!). If anyone knows which band this is, let me know.
-F.
One that immediately comes to mind is The Mason Williams Phonograph Record; I'll have to thumb through my collection later and see if I can come up with any more.
What a neat cover; it looks very 60s Pop Art. I like it!
-F.
When the MBTA retires their Flyer trolleybus I want the rollsign (Near the front door) and it's box. How much would it cost to get one of those?
If you have to ask, you can't afford it.
You mean It's NOT for sale? Or Is it very expensive to buy?
What is this route? It is mentioned on the web link posted here on the Kings Plaza/Kings Plz thread. It is called "eliminated." When I clicked on the "eliminated signs" page nothing came up, so could somebody explain this route?
can you send me the site,,where you found the eliminated routes signs
The B86 was a rerouting of the B1
--via B1 and B64 Flip Flop in Bay Ridge
The B86 from Manhattan Beach to 86 st and Shore Road
The B64 from Coney Island to B71/Shore Road
sure go to http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Haven/9293/destsigns.htm
Click on Bklyn if that is what you want and then click eliminated signs. If you get in, please give me the address so I could try again. My computer just totally freezes when I click on it.
I have the same problem withthis site
mine computer reach this site in the brooklin section.
This site calls a Kings Plaza destination on the B40 to be ridiculous. Not so! The MTA wants to combine it with the B78 to create an all-Ralph bus route.
looks cool, any kind of connection between routes is convenient, but not for the B/Os
Is the spelling correct? When I type it in, I get a message that the page doesn't exist.
and btw---it was never eliminated--it was part ofthe SOUTHWEST Brooklyn study--it was never started
other items never started included the B36 to Kings Plaza via Avenue U to Flatbush Av-to Av V
Others that did come out of this were the B70 Reroute...and the B68 to Stillwell
and the Rerouting of the Staten Island Buses in the Bay Ridge Area
The following were the proposed changes that the Southwest Brooklyn Study that were made.
1-Switch western terminals of B-1 and B-64. B-1 was to operate from 95th St/4th Ave Station to Mackenzie Street and be redesignated B-86.
B-64 was to operate from Shore Rd/Bay Ridge Ave to Stillwell Terminal.
2-Discontinue B-4 service between Narrows Ave and 4th Ave
3-Cut back B-5 service from Bay Parkway to Canal Ave on Cropsey Ave
(The B-64 was to be rerouted from Harway/Bath Aves to replace it)
4-Extend B-36 from Nostrand Ave/Ave U to Kings Plaza and reroute in Stillwell Terminal area(See Item # 5)
5-Extend B-68 from W. 5th St to Stillwell Terminal.
6-Reroute B-70 service via 86th Street (Was put into operation)
7-Cut back hours on B-74 bus route
8-Reroute S-53 to 86th St/4th Ave Station (was put into operation)
9-Create new route from W. 37th St to Kingsboro College via Mermaid,Neptune and Brighton Beach Ave/Oriental Blvd.
10-Create JFK/Bay Ridge Bus Link from 4th Ave/86th St to JFK Airport(Extra fare)
My source is internal TA reports which I were able to obtain.
Thank You
4-Extend B-36 from Nostrand Ave/Ave U to Kings Plaza and reroute in Stillwell Terminal area(See Item # 5)
What reroute?
5-Extend B-68 from W. 5th St to Stillwell Terminal.
Would this use Ocean Parkway or West 5th to get to Surf?
6-Reroute B-70 service via 86th Street (Was put into operation)
What's different?
7-Cut back hours on B-74 bus route
9-Create new route from W. 37th St to Kingsboro College via Mermaid,Neptune and Brighton Beach Ave/Oriental Blvd.
Why not combine #9 with the B74?
B70 reroute has the B70 using Fort Hamilton Parkway, then 92nd Street, then 7th Avenue (Southbound).
Prior, the B70 used Fort Hamilton Parkway, 86th Street, and 7th Avenue (Southbound) to the VA Hospital Terminal.
For Northbound chnages, simply reverse the top paragraph.
Was this the same study that changed the Northern B16 terminal from St. Paul's Place and Parkside Avenue to Flatbush Avenue/Empire Blvd.?
No the B-16 extenstion was implemented at the time the B-33 was discontined which was in March of 1995
It had nothing to do with the SW Brooklyn Study
Thank You
Then that was part of the B5/50=B82 and B47/62=B43 combination plan as well. I beleive the combination of the B40 & B78 was supposed to come out these changes as well.
The B5/B50 combination to form the B-82 and the B47/B62 combination to form the B-43 were part of DOB cutbacks which were made in September of 1995. The B 47 and B 62 were not even part of the SW Brooklyn Study.
Thank You
The B33 was already gone by December of 1994.
And September of 1993.
The B-36 was to have been rerouted as follows:
Avenue U bound-current route to W. 8th St and Surf Ave then left W. 8th St,right Neptune Ave and current route at W. 5th St
W. 37th St bound-current route to W. 5th St and Neptune
Ave then straight Neptune Ave,left Stillwell Ave,right Mermaid Ave(which was the route of the B-36 back in 1995)
The B-68 current route to W. 5th St and Surf Ave then via Surf Ave,Stillwell Ave and stand at Mermaid Ave. Return via Stillwell Ave,right Neptune Ave,right W. 8th St,left Surf Ave,and current route
The new Coney Island-Manhattan Beach route would have operated via W.5th St between Brigthon Beach Ave and Neptune Ave.
Thank You
[and btw---it was never eliminated--it was part ofthe SOUTHWEST Brooklyn study--it was never started]
To clarify: The B86 ROUTE was never started. However, destination sign readings were coded to allow for it. Those readings have since been eliminated from the signs.
Various other readings have been added as allowances, and later removed (some a VERY long time ago) because they'll never be used, including:
Bx7 to Yonkers
Bx7 Limited to Yonkers
Bx7 Limited to Washington Heights
Bx34 to Mount Vernon
Bx88 Bronx State Hospital Shuttle
Q44 to Fordham Plaza
Q76 to JFK Airport
Will the TA buy any more Novabus RTS,ALSO,Will the buy the Orion 5 along with the 7?
For both, I'd say most likely yes. The RTS is a staple of NYC and a great-looking bus, and has always served them well, whether the design was owned by GMC, TMC, NovaBus, Volvo, or Bill Gates. Who knows WHO will own the design next.
Also, I see the possibility of continued Orion orders what with the company being NY natives and all. I don't know how much longer the Orion V will be in production (hopefully a good while) but I see it as a higher probability for the Big Apple than the VII; I project the older model to be superior to the newer low floor in durability. (I also personally like the V's looks better than the VII's; those are just flat out ugly and too much of a New Flyer copy.)
-F.
And why isn't MTA getting Nova LFS?
B61 Leonard
Supposidly, NO! Based on the fact that the MTA-New York City Transit is looking at a progressivly growing Low Floor fleet, thus this new Orion VII purchase, thus Nova looking for a new low floor design with Volvo (though scrapping the Low Floor RTS and soon to be scrapping the LFS).
However, the TA is closely looking at a Nova RTS Hybrid order that can take the order from 6360-6364 up to 6509. As for the Orion 05.501, I can see the TA going back to it ONLY IF the Orion VII Monstrosities Fail severely!
Regards,
T. Logan
www.transitalk.com
I know I'm going back in time with this, but does anyone who is old enough remember the Culture Bus? In the early 1970's, as a way to promote New York's culural institutions, the TA ran special buses called Culture Buses. There were two lines called "loops" and were numbered I & II. If my memory serves me right they ran on weekends only and made stops at all the major museums and other cultural institutions. I don't remember if extra fare was required, what type of buses were used for the service or what depots they operated from. Do any of you oldtimers out there know?
There is info about loop 1 and 2 right here on this site, courtesy Hank Eisenstein.
Peace,
ANDEE
Hereis a picture of a culture loop bus in the Bronx.
Peace,
ANDEE
8802? That's too funny! One of our Gilligs here in Roanoke bears the same number. The Fishbowl, or course, is MUCH better looking. If only we could trade!
-F.
My farther use to drive them when he was A driver, for MABSTO. He is new a Disp. for them and has 32years with them. I am 28 now. The bus that at JG used to be the one he drove. My Diapres were change more then once on that bus.
Robert
Thanks Andee. DUH! It goes to show you how brain dead I've become!
I was born in 1978 and I do not remember which depot it operated from but in Manhattan, there was the M41 from Harlem to Battery Park (I think). In the Bronx, there was the Bx56 and in Brooklyn was the B88. In Queens and Staten Island, I'm not sure.
Ray
100street had them
Robert
I've ridden the M41 and B88 a few times in my early teen years. The M41 operated out of OHS (100 Street) depot. The B88 operated out of FI (Fifth Ave - Now J. Gleason) depot. I've never ridden nor have I even seen the Bx56 even though I grew up in The Bronx. My understanding is that the Bx56 didn't last very long while the B88 & M41 were around for a few years. I was neat riding them because they used express buses, but they drove very slowly. However, on the last trip the driver usually drove fast.
I think the fare was $1.50 when they were discontinued
Wayne
I drove a medallion cab in the city between ?75 and ?80. I worked just about every weekend on day shift and I saw the Culture bus all the time. Equipment was consistently GMC Fishbowl in the 8000 series. I don?t remember seeing any Flexibles or anything else on that route. ?P?Seems to me that every Fishbowl I saw in Culture bus service was from the express bus pool as they all had high back cushioned seats.
GMC T6H-5310A fishbowls 4500-4504 were used on the M41 Culture Loop.
Rich - I'm sure you're right about the 4500 series Fishbowls. It is a long time ago. I think I do remember the 4500s as well as the 8000s.
Yes, but I thought the last one was 4505.
Wayne
You're right, there was a 4505. I guess I missed that one.
Just got back from Seattle, Washington. On the way back to Sea-Tac Airport I took a slight detour to check out one of Seattle Metro's yards, the one south of downtown where the trolleybuses are based. Nothng exciting until something out of place caught my eye in the southeast corner up against the fence.
A GILLIG PHANTOM with trolley poles!!!!!!!!
Yes, Seattle Metro #4100 is a trolleybus! Gillig is building the bodies, and though I am not sure of the details, someone mentioned that the electrical equipment was being totally rebuilt from their 900-1000 series AM General trolleybuses and installed into the Gillig Phantom bodies. The trolley poles/retrievers, and related roof gear all appeared to be brand new (Kriepke [sp?] brand name on the poles).
I did some quick surveillance, and noticed that there was an opening in the fence to the front and rear of the bus, and the shop area looked like nuclear holocaust. No movement, no noise, nothing moving in the yard, and I didn't notice any cameras. So I quickly went in and snapped right-front and right rear views of this bus. I should be getting them back this afternoon -- but I do NOT know how to insert them within a post. (I know NOTHING of how to write HTML...)
As much as I detest Gillig Phantoms this thing actually looks sharp with the poles! Gotta give Gillig credit, they finally figured out a way to get rid of all the engine noise! :-)
Their website DOES have a very tiny photo of Seattle 4100....go to http://www.gillig.com/AboutGillig.htm
A GILLIG PHANTOM with trolley poles!!!!!!!!
Shocking isn't it?
Only if it's not properly grounded.
-Hank :)
Does anyone know how much one of the 1985 3800s would go for if I was to ask the TA to buy one as it is in present condition?
The 1982-4 MCI MC-9s being sold by NJT are going for just $8000. Expect an RTS of the same era to go for less.
Just read that the MTA purchasded an additional 20 Over the Road Express Buses from MCI for November delivery. These buses are to be purchased for the new X-21 and X-22 bus routes according to the MTA New York City Transit Committee report.
It was noted that 330 buses have been purchased and placed into service by the TA and 6 have been purchased by the NYC Department of Transportaion. Does any body know what happened to the 6 buses were purchased for the DOT
Thank You
I think that NY Bus Service purchased them vs. nycDOT.
nycDOT still wants to find a non-diesel express bus, meanwhile the operators have to keep the 1988 Classics rolling & rolling & rolling.
Mr t__:^)
MCI now has made the CNG version of the D4000 a standard model offering. It is no longer a prototype like the 77 102D3 CNG's at NJ Transit. So maybe NYCDOT can look at those as "Clean Fuel" replacements for the Classics?
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Thanks for the input !
Mr t__:^)
these routes are due to begin operating aug 26,2001. it appears nyct will use orions as needed until the new order arrives but not necessarily on these lines.
David, let me be the first Bus-Talker to compliment you on the sharp new appearance of the website.
I agree, it looks sharp. Are there any more changes ahead?
-F.
This is a "Q Dash 7" kind of report. Was waiting for a light as N16 passed by. It was a Orion diesel that appeared to be stuck in low gear ... the driver didn't look happy, nor did the pile of cars behind it (single lane road in each direction).
Mr t__:^)
Well I saw two buses being towed today. In the morning I saw a LI Bus Orion CNG 279 being towed east on Northern Blvd. Then this afternoon I saw 194 being towed down Middle Neck Road. We caught up with the tow truck when we headed east on Northern Blvd.
Funny I've never seen any of our buses with Detroit diesels being towed (the 288+ and diesel Orions). I've seen the 6V-92's and Series 50's break down, but the maintainance truck can usually get 'em going again.
Wow two Cummins Orions getting towed in one day. I guess when you combine poor upkeep and a not so tough Cummins engine, the tow truck gets very busy! If anybody has seen a diesel Orion, or the new 300s series 50G Orions being towed I'd like to know. But I've only seen the Cummins.
Saw this bus this morning operastiong on one of the UP Express Routes on Church Street (couldn't see the sign)
Now - wasn't this one one of the buses that was transferred to JG for the Flyer seats removal for the Special Olympics?
Is it over and the Flyers are back and the NOVAs are back at UP??
YES SIR! Special Olympics is done, the Nova Suburbans are back home and the Low Flyer C40LFs are back in service!
Regards,
T. Logan
www.transitalk.com
As of today (July 26, 2001), not all of the Nova express buses in Gleason had been returned to Ulmer Park. I saw 9310 and 9312 in Gleason service.
David
Ok I guess it is taking a while b/c saw one of the Suburbans on the B51 last night.
What did East New York get them, I saw 9440 and 9443 on the B82 at about 3:30 this afternoon. Any other are now at EYN.
Robert
got on 9441 on B82 today, had all FLA decals on it.
Neoplan DK #3006 collided with a van at 4th & Spruce Streets today while it was operating on the 57. from what I saw, it looked like the van was turning onto 4th St. from Spruce and hit the driver's side of the bus. the bus received minor damage to the driver's side (right below the driver's area) and to the front bumper. the van was not as lucky. the whole front of the van was simply gone. The driver of DK #3006 was smoking like a madman after the accident, but is all right (the passengers are too). I don't know about the driver of the van though....
Another day for me traveling On Valley Metro's RED LINE bus In Tempe & Mesa Az, Bording a eastbound bus at 148 Pm(Sch. at 136 Pm) I had to squeeze in to a Newflyer LF40 (Seating for 20) I say there was approx 90 on this bus. I checked with the operator who does this trip Monday - Friday He said that this trip is like this from the start of the line at Metrocenter (1207 Pm dep) to the end of the route in mesa (arr at 226 Pm). I found simular info on other trips on this line from 5am to 9pm.
Red Line runs 15 min 330am to 830am & 330pm to 7pm
Red Line Runs 30 min 830am to 330pm & 7pm to 1am
Are there routes that show overcrouding allday In your citys (Except Manhattan)?
Gaddammit, That friggin' 166 Line (Dumont/Cresskill - New York PABT) @ my employer (NJ Transit)
If you aint on that bus within the first 2-3 stops, hang it up! You are not getting a seat!
Regards,
T. Logan
www.transitalk.com
Does Valley Metro still use their few remaining M*A*N artics on the Red Line? Last time I was there, these were all over the Red Line.
I think their D40LFs have more like 36 or 37 seats (or even 40, hence the 4000-series numbers) but these buses are inadequate to handle large crowds on Phoenix bus routes at peak times. If it were up to me, I would assign almost all RTSs and artics to the Red Line, with the occasional LF for easier accessibility.
The Red Line itself baffles me. Why on Earth does it need to be so frickin' LONG?? And to think that it was even longer until about two years ago (when I think it went up 19 Av past Metrocenter on certain trips). They could easily split that into two or three routes; I sincerely doubt that very many people ride it end-to-end.
Also, for seeming like such an important line, its headways are mediocre at best. The ridership on that line as is could sustain 8 peak/15 base service, and that's not figuring the increased ridership that would be generated from this increase in service. But then again, this is Valley Metro, not NYC Transit. I guess 15 peak/30 base is about as good as it gets with them. I'm sure the NABI 45 foot low floors will be mainstays on the Red Line once they arrive. (Any word on those by the way?)
the flyers seating has been changed from foward facing (38 Passenger) to isle facing (23 seats). They due use 40 Ft NAMBI 35 passenger (6001 - 6270) and Tempe Eldurado 22 pasenger(4101 - 4190) There are only 5 1980 man artics left they are assigned to local routes 10, 13 & 28 and to express runs (most express runs become these routes).
The Red Line was going to be originally part of a 7 line $4.7 Billion elevated Heavy rail system & expanded Bus system "VALTRANS" . this was planed in 1987, A tax increace was planed and failed in public vote in 1988, the 7 Rail lines were reduced to 4 bus routes (Red, Blue, Yellow, Green) these 4 routes started operating in 1993.
In 2006 The Phoenix Street Railway Line #1 (Light Rail) Will operate along the route of the Red Line (Will Not Replace Red LIne Bus) From 19 Avenue/Bethany Home (Christown Mall) To Main Street and Longmore Road In Mesa. The line is planned to operate at 7 - 15 min Peak, 30 minutes Off Peak/Saturday and 60 Minutes 9pm-1am Mon - Sat and all day Sunday/Holidays.
The Red Line is Operated M-F By Phoenix Transit/ATC Vancom Div. On Saturday Both Phoenix Transit (Flyer and NAMBI) and Forsythe/City Of Tempe (El Durado) Operate the Line Alt Trips. Sunday and holiday service is operated by Forsythe/Tempe.
[I'm sure the NABI 45 foot low floors will be mainstays on the Red Line once they arrive. (Any word on those by the way?)]
I thought that Phoenix/Valley Metro had ordered some articulated buses in addition to the 45 footers. I'm not positive on this, but I thought the artics were going to be low floor NABI's. Could be wrong, but I hope not - sounds like Phoenix needs some artics badly.
Here in Queens. We NEED GBL TO BUY ARTICULATEDS!! I do understand that GBL puts ALOT of Buses on Q10. About a GOOD 75% of the buses that use on Q10 are use on Rockaway Blvd Trips. The JFK Airport Trips tend to get PACKED ALOT OF TIMES! So there's a slim chance to get a seat on Q10 and if you broad at Kew Gardens on Q10. GOOD LUCK! If you want a seat. You need to be like in the front of the line.
And Q10 on Weekends is EVEN WORST! Q10 tends to be late ALOT on Weekends and MORE PACKED BUSES ON WEEKENDS ALSO! So people are YELLING at GBL that Q10 and Q60 Runs late!
And Q60 most of the time Runs Late and with PACKED BUSES!(Mainly on Weekends.) So much people ride Q60 that GBL NEED ARTICULATEDS FOR Q10 AND Q60!
Odd Since most of the Q60 Line Runs the full lenght of Queens Blvd (Blvd Of Death) Just On top of IND Queens Blvd E, F, G, R, & Future V Lines? Is the overcrouding from the Subway, or from other strange stuff?
The M104 is crowded much of the day and night, as is the 1/2/3/9 subway underneath. Although I haven't ridden the M104 much lately, my impression is that its crowds have subsided somewhat since MetroCard transfers were implemented, which leads me to believe that many former bus riders rode the bus specifically so they could transfer to one of the crosstowns, which they can do now from the subway.
GBL or ANY DOT Company will NEVER see Articulated Buses in their depot in the near future. The only new buses that GBL will be getting will be 140 CNG Orion 5s which are very similar to the ones that QSC has got. This will replace the GMC RTS models from 1985 and 1986 and possibly the MCI Classics. When are these buses coming in? I ASSUME by the end of this year or early next year. But they're due in soon.
No matter what time you take the Q60, it'll be packed unless you are very lucky. The Q60 is a disaster. It is slow and stops at every single stop to pick up people. I was on bus 259 on Wednesday and from Queens Center Mall to Kew Gardens Road, I say it only bypassed 2 stops. And another bus was not that far in front of us either. I say about 3 minutes ahead.
Saturdays and Sundays are even worse. The nicer the day-the more the people. Wednesday was the 1st time I've taken the Q60 in about 2 weeks. Been avoiding the Blvd of Tears-(to drivers) to be going other ways because in my opinion Queens Blvd is too slow.
Cops are all over the place-the parking makes the service roads a mess-sitting in traffic for minutes. 2 lanes go into 1 then back into 2 and back into 1 again.
I got a glimpse at an Article in a Neighborhood Paper that Queens Blvd is much safer. Yeah much safer and far too slow. Queens Blvd should be renamed Grannys Blvd.
#259 Q60 Even the buses are slow. This 1 sure was.
Actually the 140 Orion V's coming to GBL will just cover the exact amount of GM RTS-04's/06's that they already have.I doubt the Classics will be scrapped at that time.
In Philly, SEPTA Route 52, especially between Lancaster Avenue and Baltimore Avenue. It pretty much doesn't matter what time of day you ride, if you get on one in that segment of the route, you're probably riding in the stepwell. It connects with most of West and Southwest Philly's major routes, and at for the most part feed the 52 pretty well. There are a few others like the 33 and 42, among others that are almost as bad, but I've never had to stand in the stepwell for either of those.
Does any US/Canada/Mexico Bus maker make a Low floor CNG Artic Bus?
Phoenix needs At least 100. (In 1980 Phoenix Transit Had 71 MAN Artics (7001-7072)Now there are only 5 left). (Valley Metro Will Only BUY Low Floor Buses) Insted by 2006 Valley Metro will only have NAMBI on Major Routes.
[Red Line runs 15 min 330am to 830am & 330pm to 7pm
Red Line Runs 30 min 830am to 330pm & 7pm to 1am]
I believe a small part of the Red Line has 15 minute headways mid-day during the week: from Sky Harbor Airport to somewhere near the Tempe-Mesa border. This is accomplished by alternating Route 40 buses with Red Line buses on that stretch of the route. Route 40 is operated by Tempe, not Phoenix/Valley Metro.
What's with this Red Line bus? Is it supposed to be masquerading as a subway or light rail line?
See main topic for more info.
This is purely from my vague recollection. A number of years ago (10 to 15), in an attempt to improve public bus service in the Phoenix area, Valley Metro (or its predecessor, Phoenix Transit) started four color-coded routes that supposedly would have better headways, etc., and would be the back-bone of the sytsem. Those routes still exist today: Red, Blue, Yellow and Green. They were basically the same as all or parts of previously existing routes. I'm not sure that ridership is any better for those routes than regular numbered routes, as the headways don't seem too much different. But it sounds like the Red Line sure needs more frequent service.
As I've posted in the past, Phoenix is a great study in its attempt to get more people to use mass transit. Service has been getting better little by little, but it still isn't much compared to NY City standards. It does seem like every time I get out there, some more service improvements have been implemented. Timetable collectors who haven't seen it yet should definited try to get a copy of Valley Metro's Bus Book, a great compilation of maps and timetables for all area routes.
Call Valley Metro Transit at 602-253-5000 to request a bus book mailed free to you (Outside of Metro Phoenix & US address only) Next Edition will be available in Noveber 2001 (Spring 2001 No longer available)
Route 40 Is a Inferior Bus route. it runs from Sky harbor Airport East to Main Street at Longmore road Mesa M-F 430 Am to 1 Am every 30 minutes. It does NOT relive Overcrouding on the Red Line
About five years ago, I bought something interesting at a transportation show. From MABSTOA
"Bus Roll Sign Lists" GMC 1966 Model TDH 5303 6401-6900
"Bus Roll Sign Lists" GMC 1967 Model TDH 5303 8301-8780
I've noticed that some Manhattan routes haven't changed in years (based on the destinations). However, some routes had the same number. Ex. #6 was (and still is) CPW to South Ferry but was also the 72nd Street Xtown (not through the park, following todays #30), 15 (23rd Street Xtown and Jackson Heights to Penn Station and even though it's not in the book, I'm 95% certain the 49th 50th Streets Xtown was also #3.
I'm not familiar with the Bronx routes so I'm not going to comment.
Michael
Now in Washington, DC; formerly in New York
I know them all:
Unless otherwise mentioned, route is the same:
CURRENT: OLD
3: same, Convent busses now M18 (mainly)
8: 13
10: combined with modern M20, see 20
18: see 3
20: combined with M10
22: M1-Madison/Chambers
23: M15-23rd Street
27: M3-50th Street, along with current M50
30: 6-72nd/57th. Also went up B'way to 72nd.
31: M11-York
Q32: M15-Jackson Heights
34: 16, along with current 16 (which went along 42nd to 12th)
35: TB, along with now gone Bronx-Astoria and Harlem-Astoria routes.
42: 106 M18 (not to be confused with today's M106)
50: see 27
57: M6-57th Street
60: did not exist
66: M7-65th Street
72: Did not exist, see M30
79: M17
86: M18 (not to be confused with today's M18)
96: M19
98: did not exist
100: Ran along current Bx20 route all the way to border with Yonkers.
101A: see 103
102: 101A
103: did not exist, 101 and 101A ran to City Hall
106: M19 (both were branches of the same route)
116: M20 (not to be confused with today's M20)
NOTE: The fact that I used the M-prefix with some, but not with others is of no significance.
Routes dead today:
M8: Ran along Grand and Broome
M12: Ran along Prince and Spring, then Delancey.
TB: See M35
You're missing some stages. For instance, today's M57 was more recently the M28, except the West End run, which was part of the M103 (another dead route: 59th Street crosstown). The Q32 was the M32.
The old M30 continued east past 72nd and Broadway to CPW.
I also missed the M26 and M29, I didn't intend to mention those numbers.
[About five years ago, I bought something interesting at a transportation show. From MABSTOA
"Bus Roll Sign Lists" GMC 1966 Model TDH 5303 6401-6900
"Bus Roll Sign Lists" GMC 1967 Model TDH 5303 8301-8780
I've noticed that some Manhattan routes haven't changed in years (based on the destinations). However, some routes had the same number. Ex. #6 was (and still is) CPW to South Ferry but was also the 72nd Street Xtown (not through the park, following todays #30), 15 (23rd Street Xtown and Jackson Heights to Penn Station and even though it's not in the book, I'm 95% certain the 49th 50th Streets Xtown was also #3.]
The multiple route numbers stemmed from the various companies that operated the various routes. Your roll sign lists included both the former Fifth Avenue Coach #6 (72nd Street "roundabout" Crosstown) and the former New York Omnibus Company #6 (Sixth Avenue & Broadway).
To avoid excessive confusion, the Comprehensive Omnibus Company and East Side Omnibus Company used the "M" prefix (so that the 49th/50th Street line was not "3" but "M3"), while Surface Transportation Inc. used both the "M" and 100-series numbers.
And yes, there were THREE 15's: FACO #15 (Fifth Avenue/Jackson Heights); NYOC #15 (23rd Street) and Comprehensive M15 (Second Avenue). There were also, at one point, three 1's (FACO on Fifth Avenue, NYOC on Madison Avenue, and Comprehensive on Madison Street).
And some folks think that having a Q-circle and Q-diamond is too confusing!
Even now in Hong Kong, there are still have same number for different routes due to different operators. But we are much more luckier because for years, only one company operates the routes in different side of the Victoria Harbour, KMB for Kowloon and the New Territories, and CMB for Hong Kong Island. Not only same number, they even have similar livery in those days. It works well until the cross harbour tunnel opened. They have to set a different numbering system(consists of 3 digits and headed with 1, 6, or 9 for different tunnels) for cross harbour routes! Although we have four franchised bus companys now in Hong Kong, 2 on the small HK Island and only one(with the larest fleet in Asia, 4199 buses) on Kowloon and the NT, and one on Lantau. Sometimes even locals are confused with the same number even they are in different places. For instances, there is a 2 in Kowloon, and a 2 on HK Island, and a 2 on Lantau! Sometimes people confused and asking why the Kowloon 2 does not go to the HK side or vice versa. It even amazed/amused foreigners, especially tourists, so I don't advise you to take buses in Hong Kong. Or you will probably getting trobule to get around. Unfortunately, most parts of HK cannot be reached by railway(KCR) and subway(MTR).
The two times I've been to Hong Kong, I remember the Tourist Bureau having a map that showed the bus routes on HK Island and in Kowloon that were most used by tourists. It made getting around by bus much easier - certainly a better way to see different parts of Hong Kong than taking the subway. Of course, a tram ride on HK Island is another great way to see parts of Hong Kong. Tourists, especially bus fans, visiting Hong Kong should definitely try some of these bus routes.
Well, Hong Kong is really good for bus fans because for a few reasons:
1.If you think that the buses in your place are not enough or something like that, you will feel happier in Hong Kong, because we have too many buses(in the pro-railway transit government's(that's the HKSAR gov't) mind). You hardly see no buses on the main roads in Hong Kong in any minute except at night time or very early morning.
2.Buses are a better way to see Hong Kong. They are cheaper and people like to take them because they are more conveinient than railway. Besides, most of the buses in Hong Kong are double-deckers, so you can have sightseeing on the upper deck of the bus.
3.We have the largest fleet of double-decker in the world, we have double-deckers almost everywhere if there is a bus. We have double-deckers on countryside bus routes too. For the almost 6000 franchised buses in Hong Kong, more than 90% are doubles-deckers.
4.We have some very special specification for buses in Hong Kong, including 3+2 seats(means 3-seated seat on upper deck at a side which can accomodate 2.5 people only in mowadays, which can be found on non-a/c and older a/c bus) to accomdate more passengers. Very narrow entrance gate(half of the width of the exit gate, which can be found on older buses) to control the passenger flow. Although these specification discourage the big-boned, but it was suitable because in 1970s, people are much more smaller in Hong Kong. This kind of specification is one of the characteristics of Hong Kong buses.
5.The buses in Hong Kong are non-American types, which can widen the American's bus fan vision. There are a lot of British types(e.g. MCW, Leyland, Dennis), some Japanese types for minibus and medium-sized buses(i.e. Mitsubishi and Toyota), also having some European types(e.g. Mercedes Benz, Volvo, Scania, MAN, Neoplan, etc.), but AFAIK, there are only Ford Transit use as minibus and other governmental vehicles in Hong Kong.
But there are some drawbacks of taking buses in Hong Kong, they include:
1.Most of the buses in Hong Kong are targeted to the locals, besides the same number different route problem. There are more Chinese notice/signs than English, and because Chinese are far more complicated, the destination signs on the bus are having relativelty large Chinese signs. A company provides a very detailed Terminal name, thus more harder to read especially if it is a circular route.
2.The destination sign provide only where the bus treminates, but not where the bus passes through, so please read the imformation sheet provided in the bus stop or ask the frequent riders. Although the imformation sheet may have errors, they are still reliable.
3.As I stated at the point 4 above, those buses are not suitable for the big-boned, so beware of that.
4.There are no museum talking about buses in Hong Kong, so if you want to know about, please go to the HK Central Library to serach them.
Well, Hong Kong is really good for bus fans because for a few reasons:
1.If you think that the buses in your place are not enough or something like that, you will feel happier in Hong Kong, because we have too many buses(in the pro-railway transit government's(that's the HKSAR gov't) mind). You hardly see no buses on the main roads in Hong Kong in any minute except at night time or very early morning.
2.Buses are a better way to see Hong Kong. They are cheaper and people like to take them because they are more conveinient than railway. Besides, most of the buses in Hong Kong are double-deckers, so you can have sightseeing on the upper deck of the bus.
3.We have the largest fleet of double-decker in the world, we have double-deckers almost everywhere if there is a bus. We have double-deckers on countryside bus routes too. For the almost 6000 franchised buses in Hong Kong, more than 90% are doubles-deckers.
4.We have some very special specification for buses in Hong Kong, including 3+2 seats(means 3-seated seat on upper deck at a side which can accomodate 2.5 people only in mowadays, which can be found on non-a/c and older a/c bus) to accomdate more passengers. Very narrow entrance gate(half of the width of the exit gate, which can be found on older buses) to control the passenger flow. Although these specification discourage the big-boned, but it was suitable because in 1970s, people are much more smaller in Hong Kong. This kind of specification is one of the characteristics of Hong Kong buses.
5.The buses in Hong Kong are non-American types, which can widen the American's bus fan vision. There are a lot of British types(e.g. MCW, Leyland, Dennis), some Japanese types for minibus and medium-sized buses(i.e. Mitsubishi and Toyota), also having some European types(e.g. Mercedes Benz, Volvo, Scania, MAN, Neoplan, etc.), but AFAIK, there are only Ford Transit use as minibus and other governmental vehicles in Hong Kong.
But there are some drawbacks of taking buses in Hong Kong, they include:
1.Most of the buses in Hong Kong are targeted to the locals, besides the same number different route problem. There are more Chinese notice/signs than English, and because Chinese are far more complicated, the destination signs on the bus are having relativelty large Chinese signs. A company provides a very detailed destination name, thus more harder to read especially if it is a circular route because this company will put everything on it. For instance, rt. 83K, a circular route of this compnay, will show as(X means Chinese characters):
XXX-XXXXX
(XXX) (CIRCULAR)
WONG NAI TAU-SHA TIN CENTRAL
You can imagine how small the words will be.
2.The destination sign provide only where the bus treminates, but not where the bus passes through, so please read the imformation sheet provided in the bus stop or ask the frequent riders. A ridiculous example is the Kowloon 8, which will make a big loop before it gets to the other terminal which is a very short distannce from each other. Although the imformation sheet may have errors, they are still reliable.
3.As I stated at the point 4 above, those buses are not suitable for the big-boned, so beware of that.
4.There are no museum talking about buses in Hong Kong, so if you want to know about, please go to the HK Central Library to serach them.
Have a good luck to get around Hong Kong by bus, you must be intelligent enough to do that.
With the Great Bronx renumbering of 1978(?), many routes were renumbered but by and large kept most of their original routing. Some routes kept their original numbers but were extended to combine with and replace other routes (*). Understand this is strictly by memory- I'm not consulting any maps- so it may not be entirely accurate.
NOW BX3 WAS BX38
NOW BX4 WAS BX42
NOW BX6 WAS BX34
NOW BX7 WAS BX10; extended from Bway/207th to Bway/168th
NOW BX8* WAS BX23 from Buhre Station to Throgs Neck
NOW BX9 WAS BX20
NOW BX10 WAS BX100(?) from 231st Station thru Riverdale/City Line
NOW BX13 WAS BX49(?)
NOW BX14 WAS BX54(?) from Grant Circle thru Castle Hill/Metro
WAS BX22 from Westchester Square (?) thru Country Club
NOW BX15 WAS BX29
NOW BX16* WAS BX7 on Boston Road from Connor Street to City Line
NOW BX17 WAS BX3 from Southern/149th thru Crotona/187;
WAS BX31 from Port Morris thru Southern/149
NOW BX19 WAS BX30(?) from Broadway/145th thru Southern/149th;
NOW BX31 from Southern/149th to Botanical Gardens
NOW BX20 Some combination of M100 and BX10(?)
NOW BX21 WAS BX26; extended from Einstein to Westchester Square
NOW BX22 WAS BX13; extended from White Plains/Pelham to Fordham Ctr
NOW BX26 WAS BX17
NOW BX28 WAS BX15
NOW BX29 WAS BX12 from Pelham Bay Station to City Island
NOW BX30 WAS BX7 on Boston Road from Gun Hill Road to Connor Street
NOW BX31 WAS BX9
NOW BX32 WAS BX25
NOW BX33 WAS BX21(?)
NOW BX42 WAS BX40 branch via Throgs Neck Houses to Harding
Brooklyn has been much discussed, but Queens underwent many changes, expecially in 1988 with the opening of the Archer Avenue extension:
NOW Q20B WAS Q44FS; extended from Main/Roosevelt to Archer/Merrick
NOW Q24 WAS B22; extended from Jamaica/160th to Archer/168th
NOW Q25 WAS Q25/34 branch from Linden/32nd to Poppenhusen/119th
NOW Q30 WAS Q17A; extended from Jamaica/169th to Jamaica LIRR
NOW Q32 WAS M32; before that 5th Avenue Bus #15
NOW Q34 WAS Q25/34 branch from Linden/32nd to Willets Pt/149th
NOW Q46 WAS Q44A
NOW Q54 WAS B53
NOW Q55 WAS B55 (never actually entered Brooklyn)
NOW Q56 WAS B56
NOW Q58 WAS B58 (never actually entered Brooklyn)
NOW Q59 WAS B59
NOW Q74 WAS Q44VP
NOW Q79 WAS Q12A
NOW Q83 WAS Q3A
NOW Q84 WAS Q4A
NOW Q85 WAS Q5A, rerouted to absorb Q5AB past Rochdale Village
Given the time and inclination, I'd do Staten Island- but I've neither.
Last year I found in my parents' closet a Geographia Queens Street Guide from 1961 which had a section listing bus routes. It may have been dated even then, because it didn't show the routes that were already established, like the Q75 and 76. It did, however, feature a number of presumably Triboro routes that went by different numbers:
-A Q51 that seemed to encompass the 19A along Ditmars from 31st to 82nd Streets (the Q19A ran only between Queens Plaza and Ditmars/31st).
-What is now the Q19B was called the Q52.
-There was another route whose number escapes me that is now the Q38 from Metro Mall along Eliot Avenue to Queens Center. Back then the 38 ran only along its serpentine Middle Village routing between Metro Mall and 108th/63rd.
-The Q18 only ran between Woodside Station and Astoria as it does now.
The segment from Woodside to Maspeth was the Q24.
There are probably other examples I've forgotten, but someone who resided in western Queens may remember others.
"NOW BX10 WAS BX100(?) from 231st Station thru Riverdale/City Line."
Actually it was the M100 that continued to Riverdale/City Line in The Bronx but was cut back to around 215 St. at the upper tip of Manhattan.
Also there was once a Bronx/Astoria branch of the Triborough Bridge route that was discontinued which originally was called route "TB" and then for a while later renamed BX21. The Manhattan/Astoria branch of the "TB" was renamed M34 but now operates as the M35/M60.
The Harlem-Wards Island route became the M34. The Harlem-Astoria route was the M35. By 1976 they were combined into the M35. When the M60 was created from 125/Lenox to LaGuardia Airport, the M35 Astoria was cut to rush hours only. It was eliminated in 1995.
{I may have posted this already. If so, please excuse me)
I have been cheking out the endless stream of comments on buses in "pop culture". I have a few more that may jog the memories of a few people.
From recent years:
A 1966 Blitz rehab (5000-5022) was featured in "New Jack City" in a scene where Nino Brown (Wesley Snipes) took over a huge apartment building called The Carter. The scene was actually shot on the corner of Powell Blvd and W. 116 Street. The bus' destination sign was clearly visible "M102 Lex Av|City Hall".
A 1970 Blitz rehab #5244 flies by during a scene in the movie "Juice" starring Tupac Shakur. The bus was on the M104 at Convent Avenue and 128th Street.
LL Cool J recorded a video on Farmers Blvd in Queens aboard 1975 ex-MaBSTOA Flxible #7768.
1984 GMC-RTS 04 #3475 (then assigned to Jackie Gleason Depot) was prominently featured in a Newmark and Lewis commercial (Dick Lewis is watching...)
In earlier years:
In the late 1970's the opening credits of "Different Strokes" TV sitcom with Gary Coleman, featured a rubber-bumpered 1977 Flexie in its opening credits. The bus was #9207, I believe.
"The Odd Couple" featured two fisbowls (T6H-5303's) in its opening and closing credits. One was an air conditioned 8000, while the other was a non-a/c 66-6800. Both buses featured Bus-O-Ramas and were in their original green livery.
The classic 1971 film "The French Connection" featured 1959 GMC-5301 #690(?), and a 1968 T6H-5305A (8800) under the el on 86th Street in Brooklyn. In fact, during that now famous R42 chase (car 4572 was the north motor number, and is still alive today on the BMT's J, L, M and Z lines), several buses were spotted along 86th Street. I believe they were on the now-defunct B34 route.
Mark
"LL Cool J recorded a video on Farmers Blvd in Queens aboard 1975 ex-MaBSTOA Flxible #7768."
Was that the video for Pink Cookies in a Plastic Bag Getting Crushed by Buildings? That's the only video I remember him doing, but most of it was shot aboard the bus.
Didn't LL Cool J shoot a video at the Jamaica BUs Terminal? I remember the song "Who do you love, are you for sure" (I think that's the name of it) and he was standing in the terminal with his back turned away from the Queens MAIN Library. He also shot a video using I believe the B12 on Linden Blvd or Alabama Av (One of the two). These videos are probably five to seven years ago. When I use to live in the city, LL Cool J use to live around the corner and down the block from me on Kingston Pl near Homelawn St (Q30 and Q31). I even met him at the Manhattan School of Music on February 25, 1997 (with the date---I not lying here!) Anyways, we did not know he was showing up.
Ray
Method Man of Wu Tang Clan use a Flxible New Look in his first solo video. Also there was a RTS in Wu-Tang's "Can It All Be So Simple" video. Probably was running on the S74 or 76 around the Park Hill area where the video was shot.
No way! I've gotta see that Method Man video. What song? Also, Sheryl Crow had what looked to be a former Muni or LA Metro Flx New Look in one of her videos a couple years ago. The name escapes me, but it was really upbeat.
Also, on "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman", Clark Kent stops a disabled Flx New Look from rolling into oblivion when the air brakes went out, leaving a hand imprint in a large fake chrome panel that was used to cover up the Flxible nameplate, therefore making the bus look generic so as not to put the show in the line of legal fire.
-F.
The Wu-Tang video that the RTS is shown is for C.R.E.A.M.
That's too cool! Hey, I saw another Fishbowl on a Subway commercial recently; in it, the man exclaims "Fresh air!", then the bus rolls by and he starts waving his hand around and coughs like he's choking. Come on now...diesel fumes are the spice of life. That's the smell that keeps me sane!
-F.
WOW! I never noticed any of these. I've gotta go back and see these, especially the "Diff'rent Strokes" episodes; that show was a childhood favorite of mine. Back then I always found it funny that "Grumman" and "Drummond" sounded almost alike.
-F.
I was working on our 1976 Flx New Look tonight doing body prep for its restoration and came upon an interesting discovery; the rear rims were made by Budd Corp, the same people who made the light rail trains! The rears on our bus are a retrofit from a 1986 Flx Metro, but does anyone know how long the company produced bus wheels? Who took over after they went out of business? Am I right on assuming it to be the same company? The wheel is a white five oval-hole steel design.
-F.
Who took over after they went out of business?
For more info about the budd company Click here
And you never known they made parts for cars.
That's neat...I never knew they made car parts, much less bus wheels! You really learn something new every day. I wonder what other manufacturer of various mobile goods I will find when we are restoring that old 76 Flx?
-F.
Yes, the wheels were made by a division of Budd Company. They were the most popular wheels for a couple decades.
Nowadays everyone seens to be going to Alcoa chromies.
That's correct; the Alcoas look good on newer buses. However, I like the good old five-slot white steel wheels on New Looks and ADBs the best.
This bring me to a question of curiosity; there was a certain type of five-slots used on Flx New Looks and AM Generals throughout the 70s. As opposed to the oval slots found in later ADB wheels, these had a different look to the openings, more like Kermit the Frog's pupils, hence I refer to them as "Kermit wheels". What is the manufacturer and proper name of these rims? We have a picture example on our web link; go to www.acrticboy.com/buses/savebus.html and scroll down to the Valley Metro Flx New Look and you will find those wheels. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Oops...misspelled that web link. Here it is in correct form below.
>>That's correct; the Alcoas look good on newer buses. However, I like the good old five-slot white steel wheels on New Looks and ADBs the best.
>>This brings me to a question of curiosity; there was a certain type of five-slots used on Flx New Looks and AM Generals throughout the 70s. As opposed to the oval slots found in later ADB wheels, these had a different look to the openings, more like Kermit the Frog's pupils, hence I refer to them as "Kermit wheels". What is the manufacturer and proper name of these rims? We have a picture example on our web link; go to www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html and scroll down to the Valley Metro Flx New Look and you will find those wheels. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
I have some really stupid questions about New York buses because I'm not a New Yorker. Here are the questions:
1.Is the MTA the only bus operator in NYC?
2.How is the maximum headroom on the roads(including tunnels and lower deck of the bridge) in NYC usually(can you give it in metric)?
3.How is the route number assigned?
4.How long did the MTA have no double-deckers?
5.Are the buses in NYC compusory or auxillary with the subway?
6.Except the 12m(49'4") long British Dennis Trident, is there any non-American made bus in New York?
7.Are there any low-floor bus in NYC? What kind of brand they are? How do they perform?
8.What is your opinion about the MTA's capital plans concerning about buses?
9.In your opinion, which is more suitable in NYC, a double-deck bus or articulated bus, and why?
Here are the questions I have now, I might raise something else later.
I haven't lived in NYC for 6 years, but I'll try and answer your question to the best of my ability. If I'm wrong, PLEASE correct me!!!!!!
1) No, there are "privates" that are regulated by NYC Dept of Transportation, mainly operates in Queens (Local and Express) with Express operators (to Manhattan) from Brooklyn and the Bronx as well. I'm not sure if Staten Island still has privates.
2)don't know
3)Mainly, each route has a letter for primary borough of operation and 1-3 numbers after ex:M104, operates in Manhattan. Other letters include B:Brooklyn, Bx:Bronx, Q:Queens, S:Staten Island, X:Express(no matter which boro, X before the number means Express
4)not sure, I think in the 50's
5)Both.Bus lines operate as "feeders" to subway stations from different neighborhoods throughput the city as well as lines that actually cover a good distance following a subway line on the surface.
6)Not sure. Some charter companies have Prevost, made in Canada (which I think are the best made buses in NY)
7)Yes there are, made by New Flyer (D40LF) MTA is getting Low Floors made by Orion (Orion VII) pretty soon. I like the New Flyers but the Orions remains to be seen
8)Don't know, haven't been in the city in a while
9)I think a Artic, For one, we already have them. Two, a lot of elderly people use the system and for them to get up and down the stairs in a Double Decker and three, do the make them with Wheelchair Lifts? I don't know of ANY Transit system in the US that uses Double Decker buses in its regular operations
I hope that gave you some input on what you're looking for. If I'm wrong on something bustalkers, PLEASE CORRECT ME!!!!
B61 Leonard
The TA ran a few double-deckers on the M5 (and M4?) in the mid-1970's. I was born in 1974 and I remember riding them -- I even had a favorite seat.
The big problems with them is the overhead traffic signals.
How tall are they(overhead traffic signals) then? Is there any rules to restrict at least how much headroom is needed to preserve for the road?
1)"No, there are "privates" that are regulated by NYC Dept of Transportation, mainly operates in Queens (Local and Express) with Express operators (to Manhattan) from Brooklyn and the Bronx as well. I'm not sure if Staten Island still has privates."
I'm almost 100% sure there are no privates on Staten Island. And an add-on, the reason why Queens gets most of the privates is because of the non-development of the subway to cover Eastern Queens.
"7)Yes there are, made by New Flyer (D40LF) MTA is getting Low Floors made by Orion (Orion VII) pretty soon. I like the New Flyers but the Orions remains to be seen"
You mean New Flyer C40LF we don't have D40LF yet. Difference is D=Diesel, C=CNG {compressed natural gas} reduces emissions. Orion 7s may not come too soon with their problems. I don't have first hand experience with them, but I trust the people on Bustalk since most agree with me.
>>> I think a Artic, For one, we already have them. Two, a lot of elderly people use the system and for them to get up and down the stairs in a Double Decker and three, do the make them with Wheelchair Lifts? I don't know of ANY Transit system in the US that uses Double Decker buses in its regular operations <<<
The reason Double Deckers are disfavored throughout the United States is concern for liability if a passenger falls while on the stairway between levels.
Tom
B61Leonard has already answered most of the questions above. But I can provide some additional insight.
5. Buses are complimentary and auxilliary to the subway system. For example, there are buses running on White Plains Road in the Bronx. White Plains Road is also the routing for the #2 IRT elevated line in the Bronx. So the buses make very local stops (about every two blocks) while the subway stops are further apart at about every 10 blocks or so. OTOH - buses for the most part cover routes where subway or elevated lines were never built. In some cases, buses run as extensions of subway or elevated lines to more remote points. And in service outages on the subway or elevated lines, buses are used as replacement for subway or el lines in trouble until the trouble is fixed.
6. Local buses for the most part are all built in the US. However, there are tiny little exceptions to most rules and here are a few:
There are a little over a dozen GM of Canada Fishbowls (AKA GM New Looks) at the New York Bus Service Garage in service since around 1982-1984. These are soon to be replaced (and will be sorely missed.) They look as American as can be. They are among the last remenants of the GM Fishbowl fleets that once dominated virtually every bus fleet in America. However, these particular buses at this fleet were actually built by GM Canada.
In addition, the occasional over the road coach or charter coach will be seen in NYC. Prevost is fairly common and is built in Canada. But MCI is much more common and I believe they're built in Pembina North Dakota (US built.) There are also occasional Dina coaches and those are built in Mexico.
7. There are whole fleets of low floor buses at the airports. I believe these are mostly New Flyer and they are equipped with Detroit Diesel 2 stroke 6V92 engines and 5 speed automatic transmissions.
They can move along at highway speeds (probably governed around 60MPH) - but they're necesarilly uncomfortable as they're designed to hold alot of luggage on the inside.
9. Double deck vs. articulated buses in New York City - Well actually I don't like either though I'd lean more towards double deck than artics. Both create signifant problems. And artics are already in service creating many of these problems:
* Artics tend to block intersections.
* Artics are horrendously bad (dangerous)in the snow.
* Artics give the transit folks excuses to reduce the frequency of buses as they hold more passengers - not something I want to encourage.
* Artics of the variety in service in NYC right now are governed at about 40MPH - way too slow for any highway movement at all. The city does this as a safety precaution. But if that's as fast as they can go even on open highway - then they must be inherently unsafe.
As for double deckers, these were in service in NYC for many years. I'm told they were mostly gone after WWII as newer buses were ordered single level. Here's what I believe are the problems with double deckers:
* A few intersections might have interference with overhead signals depending on height of bus.
* Handicapped folks can't climb the stairs.
OTOH - double deckers would certainly handle better than artics and are probably more fuel efficient and wouldn't block the box.
So if we had to make a choice, I'd favor double deckers.
Overall, I'd rather keep a higher frequency of service with single level standard 40 foot buses.
When will NYBS retire the Fishbowls? I'd like to take one last ride before they go. Do they generally run on the same route every day? Where can I wait and be likely to catch one? I don't care where it goes as long as I can get back (preferably by subway).
As for double deckers, aren't they prone to rollovers? Besides, two of the artic routes, the M79 and M86, use the Central Park transverses. I can't imagine a double decker would fit through the arched overpasses.
Well you can wait at 23 St and Madison Ave for 1 to pull out at rush hour preferitably between 5 and 8pm. If you take the Morris Park Avenue Bus-you can get off at Pelham Pkwy-take the BX12 to the Subway-at least you'd get an Artic Ride. Either way will get you to a subway.
If you went to Pelham Bay Park, then you get off at the very end and take the 6 back into Manhattan or you can take the 3 borough tour and take the QBX1(a QSC Bus) to Main St Flushing in Queens and take the 7 (Home of the RedBirds) back into Manhattan.
I'm not sure about Parkchester and Throgs Neck.
AS far as when the Fishbowls are going to be retired? I would assume by this year's end. I thought that they'd be replaced already. I was hearing that 4 MCI Cruisers were going to NYBS for testing. I guess that was held off.
Got a question about NYBS: Why don't they have the route numbers in the front of their buses? When they had the Orions-they had the route numbers on them (BXM6, BXM7). Now the Orions are at GBL as 719-722 and are doing quite well there to my surprise.
Hope this info helps you out.
#452 QBX1
#1489 Morris Park Ave
#722 QM15
I don't know why NYBS chose not have the route numbers on their destination signs. Actually there was a time when Queens/Steinway Transit buses did not display a route number for their express routes. The buses with mylar signs simply read...ex: "EXPRESS 6 AVENUE", "EXPRESS GLEN OAKS", "EXPRESS JEWEL AVENUE". The "EXPRESS" or route portion was on a red background and the destination portion was on a black background. The Grumman Flxible 870's with their electronic signs would alternate between "EXPRESS" and the destination. I think they started signs with the express route numbers when Queens/Steinway Transit became Queens Surface Transit.
Wayne
The funny part is that on the express bus maps, the route numbers are listed. The one I had showed the numbers for all the express routes for NYCT and the privates.
Yes, your right. I can even appreciate that because in the past only NYCTA express were printed on the maps.
Wayne
I'd take the Pelham Bay route which terminates at Pelham Bay on the #6 line. I think the best line is the Co-Op City route - in which case you could take any bus in Co-Op City back to a subway station.
Wayne
Thanks. If I have to take a local bus to a subway to get back, I'm stuck paying three local fares (two fares on the express bus, free transfer to the local bus, one fare on the subway), so I'd be inclined to go for Pelham Bay. Still, I'll take what I can get.
http://community-1.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT
Steve
914 668 9218
Saw this one (2086) on the X15 this morning - thought according to rosters it was transferred to Castleton. Also thought some of the high 1900s were transferred to Yuk from CAS when the Orions Returned (and more are still [Orions])
What's the deal?
the deal is 2086-2091 have returned to yukon in response to the need for more coaches with the academy pullout. several orions have returned to castleton from queens and edgewater.
Okay, I don't kow how to insert HTML to get a photo to appear within a post here.
So....I posted the pictures in Usenet.
alt.binaries.pictures.vehicles is where you will find them.
Hurry, as binary files sometimes do NOT stay long in Usenet groups.
(I may have another way to share them with those who haven't the foggiest on what Usenet is. Trust me, the Internet is NOT just e-mail and www-pages as a lot of people think!!)
Here's an example on how to use HTML code to insert images:
The way I put that image in was simply typing in [img src="http://www.angelfire.com/pa4/septabus/images/eldorado/4517.jpg"] - replace the "[ ]" with "< >" and URL listed above with your own URL, and that's all there is to it.
BTW, the above is SEPTA ElDorado 4517 at Market & New Streets in downtown West Chester, pulling down a Saturday trip on the 92 to Exton Square Mall.
the above is SEPTA ElDorado 4517 at Market & New Streets in downtown West Chester, pulling down a Saturday trip on the 92 to Exton Square Mall
More like a Image hosted by Angelfire!
i check the ctrabs site it was a angerfire logo for eldorado 4519.
Did you consider focusing?
-Hank
It's kinda hard to focus one one of those one-use cameras. Plus, sometimes the image comes out okay when I take the picture, but the scan process kinda ruins things.
while the next time i get my photos of septa buses i post
them on my web page at here
So you mean like this?
The photo of that bus is a Ex GO Transit New Flyer D40HF 1 Door Suburban #9177. Witch is now running with Bampton Transit as #9177. This is one of the 5 Ex GO's they have.
More like NOTHING!
That's odd. I posted it yesterday and the image could be viewed. I guess it depends on your computer... Oh, well.
If I did, you will see a pic of my bus that I use for a mobile shop. If not, oh well....back to the drawing board. :)
-F.
Shuttles are assigned to NYCTA / MaBSTOA depots only, by Operations Planning, usually to the garage which is geographically closest to the affected subway line.
There is no line training for subway shuttle work. You learn the route as you drive. Usually, if you're unsure about the route, you can (and most do) follow your leader around the loop. If you're the hawk or owl bus, you're pretty much on your own to figure out the route.
Shuttles are assigned to operators who request to work their day off, or as a second piece of work after their normal work day (called a double-up). The RDO (regular day off) assignment request comes before the double-up request. All requests are assigned in depot peg (seniority) order.
Shuttles may be assigned to one single garage, yet have work available to other garages who cannot cover all the work. Or, they may be shared by multiple garages, in which case, the division of work will be shared in order: Run 1 garage A, Run 2 garage B, Run 3 garage C, run 4 garage A and so on.
When reporting for shuttle work, we are issued a face sheet which describes the route details (turns, run on / run off, bus stops, etc), a schedule overview (which usually includes the schedules for 10 runs on each page, the run closest to your assignment, plus whatever else is on that particular sheet), and in rare instances, a printed map or diagram. The last map I received was working the LIRR shuttle. There is also a map for the Randalls Island event shuttle, but I haven't seen any for the subway shuttles.
Shuttles are usually assigned an older model bus, with the exception of a hawk or owl run, which usually always is assigned the newest bus in the fleet (in the hopes that it will not require a road call since it's the only bus on the line at the time). All NYCTA buses have EZ Pass, and all NYCTA buses are NYC parkway-legal (where applicable height & weight restrictions apply).
Shuttle work always pays at least 12 hours, but most of them pay 13+ hours.
There will usually be uniformed NYCTA SLD's at a shuttle terminal to help guide operators, and to maintain some form of headway. If the line is full of operators who are new to the area, and who have not worked that particular shuttle in the past, it will be a mess the first few hours :-)
I got a catalog from Monaco Coach the other day. They build tow behind, gas and diesel RVs. But the ones I like are the ones on diesel pusher frames like the RTS and NF. Most of them offer just a Cummins engine in the 350-500 horsepower range. Some offer a Allison 5 speed. The best one I saw was a custom built Prevost conversion. Remember Academy's VIP buses? Just like that, only better and longer. Makes HJ luxury coaches look like crap. By the way, I'm trying out for them Monday. I have to take a road test. Oh great, now I have to show them I can handle a LWB Prevost. I should do just fine.
Good luck with the test. Maybe we'll meet up on the LIE. You'll have to get up extra early to drive to Southhampton to get the coach. But it could be worse....you could be hired by Sunrise and have to go to Greenport.
About a year ago I put up a post regarding a Newsday article about two fellows who were starting a Luxury Hampton bus service to the Hamptons from NYC. The article claimed that the bus would have waitress service, swivel seats and be limited to (IIRC) 25-30 people. I asked who was making the coach since the picture didn't reveal who the mfg was.
Someone (King Solomon, maybe) responded that the bus was made by a motorhome/RV company, not Prevost, MCI, etc.
The previous post about 11a's tryout with Hampton Jitney got me wondering------did this competitor get off the ground last year and are they still in business????
There was a follow up article in Newsday the other day about the 2 luxury services to the Hamptons.It mentioned the manufacturer but I can't recall at this time(It was in Pt 2 if I am not mistaken.)
I saw a similar article in the NY Post a couple of weeks ago (I can't believe I forgot to post info about it, but oh well) about the competing jitney services. In any case, I believe the bus used by the upstart operation is a Blue Bird LTC-40.
Anybody have any idea what freqs they use? I think they all use one 800 or 900 mhz system. All my sources for radio stuff have no information, ecvept for one which has either partial or wrong information.
Have anybody saw the New Flyer D40LF DEMO when it was at the MTA back in 1997?
Here's the photo of the bus I talking about!
Yes, that is the second D40LF demo. The first one was in Queens division and was in a white paint scheme with Blue and Magenta stripes. This bus you have here is F1997 and toured the MaBSTOA Manhattan Division. She was on the M7, and M14. I wrode her on the M14 many of times. Nice bus but when it came to cruch loads, it was not very nice anymore. Powered by a Detroit Diesel Series 50 coupled to I believe was an Allison B400 transmission. Hope this helps.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
YEAH! PHOTO BY TREVOR LOGAN!
DOM, IF YOU ARE GONNA SHOW PEOPLE'S STUFF PLEASE SHOW CREDIT TO WHERE YOU GOT IT FROM!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
OK. Then thanks for telling me!
The TA also had a D60LF onec. I riode with the driver to were I was going one night. He did not know how to get somewere from leaving Ulmer Park so I showed them. It was a nice bus.
Robert
That's why my name goes on any photo I put on the net.
-Hank
This has been crossposted to both boards.
I have completed the compilation of the Brooklyn Bus/Trolley list, it is available at http://www.subtalklive.com/brooklynbus.html
Corrections are welcome.
Excellent job . Please note the following changes
1- B-21 and B-34 were discontinued November-1978
2- The B-51 did not replace the B-15 Manhattan Bridge route. It was created serving a different market.
3- The B-6 also took over the B-28 Glenwood Rd route in 1950. The B-84 was first the B-6 Shuttle (as of December-1970) and merged into B-6 route Feb. 1972
4- The B-84 was called Flatlands Avenue
Again congrutlations for a job well done
Thank You
1- B-21 and B-34 were discontinued November-1978
I'll change that next time I edit it.
2- The B-51 did not replace the B-15 Manhattan Bridge route. It was created serving a different market.
I mentioned the difference in the route under NOTES.
3- The B-6 also took over the B-28 Glenwood Rd route in 1950. The B-84 was first the B-6 Shuttle (as of December-1970) and merged into B-6 route Feb. 1972
Thanks
Was there an old B27 too?
4- The B-84 was called Flatlands Avenue
Will edit.
Yes the B-27 was a route that was called Fulton Street Extenstion. I believe it ran from Van Siclen Ave to Jamaica Ave/Crescent Street.
It was a trolley route at one time.
It was discontinued in 1955
Thank You
Again outstanding job that you did
I didn't ask this the first time: What were the terminals of the old B28?
The B-28 ran from Utica Ave to Ralph Ave. It was a shuttle
If u can get a hold of the Motor Coach Magazine with the Brooklyn history this will help you
Thank You
And where did the B6 end?
Do you mean Motor Coach AGE, or is there a Motor Coach Magazine?
What library has an archive of the magazine (whichever it is)?
http://www.subtalklive.com
BE THERE AND BE SQUARE!
http://www.subtalklive.com/
BE THERE AND BE SQUARE
Last night I went to Hecksher Park in Huntington to hear an accapella group THE PERSUASIONS that I have followed for about 30 years. The show was great and while waiting after the show at the "stage door" one of the members came out for a cigarette. I asked if they would autograph one of the three albums I brought.
Joe Russel said they'd be happy too and invited me and another family who was waiting into the dressing room to meet them and take pictures and autographs.
They graciously signed all three albums for me, took a pic with me. I asked them where the picture on STREET CORNER SYMPHONY's cover was taken. The answer was Fulton and Nostrand in Brooklyn which explains why there are 2 Flxible New Looks in a row.
When I get a scanner I'll put up a post so that I'll send the pic to whomever would want it (no extra charge for the autographs).
On Busdues website. There are 4 Photos of the Gillig Phantom ETB. All 4 where took by the Webmaster of the Busdues website.
Here we go!
[img src="http://busdude.topcities.com/MT/MT_4100_1.jpg"]
[img src="http://busdude.topcities.com/MT/MT_4100_2.jpg"]
[img src="http://busdude.topcities.com/MT/MT_4100_3.jpg"]
[img src="http://busdude.topcities.com/MT/MT_4100_4.jpg"]
Enjoy! :)
Sorry about that. Here's the photos AGAIN!
There! MUCH BETTER!
Or so you thought...
-Hank
There! MUCH BETTER!
Look at the photos you posted.
Check for mistakes nothing is appearing but boxes with red X's.
It could be on your computer. B/c the photos are showing up on my computer and it's the problem on your computer. So try to Reload it if you have a problem.
We all are having the same problem. Reload won't work.
I pulled them all up just fine...
-F.
It sounds like many or all of us are not getting the pictures.
At least your first post allows us to cut and paste so we can go to the pictures. I haven't been to Seattle since the current paint scheme was adopted. It looks good in pictures. I'll have to find some time to get out there again some day. I remember enjoying riding on Seattle Metro and Pierce Transit vehicles.
There are actually THREE versions of Seattle's current paint scheme. All of them are basically the same, but the top color will either be a Forest Green, Teal Green, or a Purplish-Blue. When new buses are delivered, they seem to evenly split the colors on each order, but the repaints (at least the Breda dual-modes) they seem to be done randomly with no sequence.
Still not working.
They came through just fine here.
Lets do a survey...Who tried to use Netscrape, and who tried to use Internet Exploiter?
There's a bug in some servers when it comes to capital letters in URLs when the actual URL doesn't have capital letters (and vice-versa) NS automatically tries to correct for it, IE does not.
Additionally, this may be a case of a web host not allowing a remote call, the same way you get the angelfire or geocities logo when trying to do the same thing. Only here, the server doesn't put up any image. I also dislike this server because to correct for the error and view the page as intended, you have to surf to each individual picture, and then come back to this page. And now I can't stop the fucking site from sending popups!
Find a new web host.
-Hank
I used IE...
-F.
The server the photos I took it off from is Topcities.
every picture of link are try to put in at top cities the server
address (www.topcities.com)will come up instead of the actrial link.
test
links for photos here
1 picture
2 picture
3 picture
4 picture
Watching Witness with Harrison Ford;caught a fleeting shot of SEPTA RTS-03 8139? with no Sutrac A/C on top.
I just spotted more buses as well; on the opening credits of "Sex And The City", I can see a shot of the very back end of a late-model Fishbowl, and there's a shot of Sarah Jessica Parker getting splashed by a NYCTA RTS with her photo on the side. And you thought people just watched the show for the nudity...:)
-F.
I'll have to watch the reruns(over and over again) this week on HBO & HBO+ for the fishbowl.
The bus that is splashing her is the infamous PA4199, the one owned and rented out by a movie prop company. If you look you can clearly see the passengers inside. This bus had the windows replaced so the movie lights would not cause a glare when they were shone against the windows. This bus has been used on many movie and TV show sets.
Note that when Sarah Jessica Parker is splashed the bus is alongside the left hand curb of a street. Very unusual.
Gotta clean my bifocals to see the fishbowl.
Yeah....I figured that was an older RTS being that it had the white Budd wheels with the blue hubs. The Fishbowl can barely be seen; it is in the center lane at an intersection and is at the front of the lane and seen from the rear. So where is the exact location of 4199?
-F.
Saw this adcard on the q88 was a chalk drawing of an Orion V however instead of the quad rectangular headlamps it was drawn with the dual round headlamps of a Flxette.
I saw something that I thought it could not happen but it did. Trevor, if you read this then answer it. I saw Gillig Buses 932 and 934 on the S60 in Suffolk County, Long Island (Suffolk Transit) at Smith Haven Mall. I thought those Gillig go up to bus 920 (901-920). Bus 934's exhaust pipe was done the same way as the Gillig's at MTA LI Bus (the pipe was longer and bent in a curve-----like a "c"!) I was wondering, is it possible that MTA LI Bus gave some Gilligs to Suffolk Transit? These buses are not 40 Ft BUT MTA LI Bus had some short buses (Gillig buses 500-519 or 520). I say this because I never saw buses 932 or 934 before. Southampton had 920 for a while. Also Suffolk Transit is repainting their buses like bus 9647 (Gillig bus) to a black top and white with yellow and blue stripes going across (somewhat simliar to the Bee-Line Buses of Westchester County).
Ray
Bus 934 on the S60
Bus 932 on the S60
Bus 9647 on the 3D (S3D)
I saw something very strange on the Q46 today-on a Sunday afternoon- 625. Saw mostly 4900s otherwise- 4924 4934 4919.
#625 Q46
ST is indeed using a new paint scheme. The newest ST 9900 series Orions currently wear them. I have seen at least one new 35 foot Gillig, number 2001. She is the only Gillig that I've seen wearing the new livery. 9647 is probably assigned to the western Suffolk County routes. She wouldn't be way out here in Eastern Suffolk unless she changed depots.
I think 2001 is used on the Suffolk Clipper express commuter route and is stored at Educational Bus in Amityville/Copiague/West Babylon on Sunrise Hwy.
I did see a ST Gillig numbered 2001 making the rounds out here, unless one of the Clipper Prevosts has the same number too. She's a 35 footer in the new livery, the only one that I've seen so far.
Those ST Suburban Gilligs have been running for a number of months now on the S110 Clipper. The fleet numbers run from 2000-2005 or 2006.
Okay, that plausible. Would explain why I don't see them much.
I think the legitamite reason why GBL 5501's Ornage Balios Sign was not working was because her sign was getting modified. While I was waiting for the light on Queens Blvd and 58 St today, 5501 passed me by going towards Manhattan. The front sign was the same. The passenger side sign was very similar to the ones that are on the 1100 TMC series. Also noticed a new feature on 5501: She has a rear route sign! I couldn't believe it-I had to look twice to see if it was true. It sure was. I bet 5503 got the same treatment. I'll keep my eye out for her.
#5501 Q60
That means the GBL Orion V's are possibly getting the Luminator signs like its DOT counterparts and 719-722.
[I think the legitamite reason why GBL 5501's Ornage Balios Sign was not working was because her sign was getting modified. While I was waiting for the light on Queens Blvd and 58 St today, 5501 passed me by going towards Manhattan. The front sign was the same. The passenger side sign was very similar to the ones that are on the 1100 TMC series. Also noticed a new feature on 5501: She has a rear route sign! I couldn't believe it-I had to look twice to see if it was true. It sure was. I bet 5503 got the same treatment. I'll keep my eye out for her.]
The last time I saw either 5501 or 5503, neither had any destination sign at all, which leads to another question....
What is GBL's objection to functioning destination signs? With 5501 and 5503 out, that leaves only two or three Orions (out of 50 or so) with signs that are ever allowed to work. Plus, most of the RTS roll signs are kept on the "blank" reading.
On September 1st, 2001. TransiTALK will throw a 3rd Field Trip in suppliment to the August 11th Trip to Manhattanville.
The September 1st trip will involve using a GO Transit (Canadian) Fishbowl. The Trip cost will be $20.
The Itinerary is looking to lean towards a touring of Bee Line routes with a possible Stop at a Bee Line/Liberty Lines Facility. Itinerary is still in planning.
If interested, e-mail me at tlogan@transitalk.com
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
im up for it-let me know where to meet up
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooohhhhh.....I'm QUITE interested! Hopefully all will go well and I will be able to join; will this be a day trip, I assume? Let me know; thanks!
-Fred
Hello, there. Have any BUS personnel had a peek yet at the tables for the fall?
Now since I had my friend as a driver and he put in codes as I told him to display on the bus, I have a question on this.
Can a P/R display a route that a bus usually takes?
Reason being - he entered one of the low digit #s (1-9) as Dest. A and it stayed on instead of the route. So from this, I am deducing that since this is normally a P/R one, it can also be used as a route.
So here's what I am trying to say (I'll illustrate by example)
Driver enters code for X12 reading (Whatever it is as I can't remeber right now (7120?)
X12 West Midtown
X12 via Church
via Madisn
Can he/she also put in P/R (7122 or whatever it is??) so as to display
X12 DOWNTOWN
X12 Worth Street
So the display will show like this in this order?
X12 Downtown
X12 Worth Street
X12 West Midtown
X12 via Church
via Madisn
I have been seeing a LOT of the 9200's and 9300's express buses running on Ulmer Park b1,B3 and B64 route in the last couple of days. And i did see #5093 and #5098 on the B1 route. If Ulmer Park is short buses,then whats the delay in sending over the 9300's from FLA as expected? Or is ULP beomming all express and the 9200's and 9300's are there on local routes temporaily?
I can state with absolute certainty that Ulmer Park Depot is NOT becoming an all-express facility. As to why the express buses are running in local service, I've noticed it too, but I'll have to leave the explaining to others because I don't have an answer.
David
I was talking to a driver at ULP today (B64-run #011). This is what he told me:
The last #5000's were removed from ULP on 7/31/01 at 1:30 a.m.
A bulk of the 9200's and 9300's are in serivce on local routes due to the access of MCI buses. (B1,B3,B4 and B64 have them. B6 will not).
Does not know when the 9300's from FLA are due in. Does anyone know?
B64-#9298 ULP
I enjoyed looking at the Testagore pictures. (I hope I spelled the name right.) I noticed that bus colors have changed over time. (I'm only talking about TA and MABSTOA.) First, the color was green, then it migrated to blue, and now it's blue and white.
Does anybody know why the colors have changed. The green on the fishbowls looks very nice.
Michael
Living in Washington, DC; thinking of moving back home to NY
when he retires.
Joe's last name is Testagrose.
Before the NYCTA green color scheme on the New Looks, it was dark green bottom and turquoise top on the old looks. Before that the top halves were silver.
Regarding the old looks, there was an interim scheme between the silver top and turquoise top - an off-white top. The 4000 and 5000 series GM and Mack buses came with silver tops (some with green roofs or a green band above the standee windows). The 6000 series Macks and 7000 series GM's had off-white tops. The 9000 series GM's were the first buses with turquoise tops - a lighter shade of turquoise than was eventually adopted for repainting the old looks.
Technically, there were two blue and white schemes. The blue used on the Grumman 870's was considerably darker than the blue used on the RTS's. The first new look buses repainted in blue and white had the Grumman darker blue, while later repaintings got the lighter RTS blue.
MSBA new look buses were generally in the same schemes as the NYCTA buses, with the addition of the orange stripe, until some were repainted to resemble the MSBA Grumman scheme.
This is true; the Grumman blue was considerably darker. I know this well as I have just completed one of two HO scale models in a current order of NYCTA Grummans (711 and 714, respectively) and I had to go out and buy a special darker paint for the stripes, which are also repeated on the skirt panels. The same went for a 7300 series Flx New Look I completed earlier this year, which had both the lighter blue and the darker blue found on the Grumman. (BTW, this was the rolling Flx model I had been working on for some time.)
This baby really looks sharp; hopefully I will be able to post a photo soon. It even features the BX12 Pelham Bay destination signs. I LOVED building this model. If anyone is interested in one, let me know after August 6; I can do any fleet no. or destination.
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
I repainted a few NYCTA models for someone, and the color I used was Model Master "Blue Angels Blue". (Testor's makes this paint and it is available in most hobby stores.)
In recent months, Joe Testagrose has been uploading SCADS of NYCTA and MABSTOA bus photos to the alt.binaries.pictures.vehicles Usenet group, and it is amazing how many different shades of blue got used. It looks as though they were using whatever blue they could find.
That sounds about right; I used the Model Master Acryl Dark Blue on the Grumman. Yeah, I think NYC ws not particular about the kind of blue they used. After all, they are New York, where variety is the spice of life!
-F.
The colors changed from two-tone green to two-tone blue after the MTA took over in 1968 (the first buses to come in with the scheme were the 6000-series GMC T6H-5309A/5310A in 1972). MTA wanted a uniform "look" for its services.
The colors changed to white with a blue stripe (and originally a blue bottom section, later changed to white also) in the late 1970s, 1979 I think (possibly '78, right after the 1977-78 Flxible 53102-6/8-1s came in -- the 1980-81 Grumman 870s were the first to come in white with a blue stripe). If memory serves, it was done to keep the buses cooler in summer (the AC wasn't so reliable in those days -- whether it did keep the buses cooler is a matter of opinion).
David
This is true; even on wrapped buses the roof is kept white for that very reason...to keep the inside cool. We had a Grumman in all black with logos for a local radio station here in Roanoke and I always thought that was tacky but then again, it was flat and way up high, so who was looking? Later a similar treatment was applied to the Gillig which replaced it but it was almost hideous as the white roof was curved and fully exposed.
-F.
Scientifically proven repeatedly. Look at most new school buses. Instead of being all yellow, the roofs are white. It makes a big difference, 10-15 degrees farenheight. Some have the engine cowl painted black on top to reduce glare.
-Hank
Too bad they don't bother installing air-conditioning, that and the white roofs would work great together.
Yeah...I was just thinking the same thing. In fact, I think a large scoop-type on the rear roof a la the New Look would be great for these. In fact, that would have worked a LOT better on transits than those tacky center-mount boxes found today.
-F.
True; I always thought school buses looked tacky that way but with hotter temperatures it would make sense. Maybe they should make a Vista Cruiser school bus with tinted windows...LOL.
-F.
Speaking of white to keep buses cooler - It loos as if the TA thought of that in the past. All of the TA's A/C equipped new looks that were originally green had white roofs. Of course the white roof were painted when the buses got their two-tone blue paint jobs.
Wayne
What is the different between zf and allision
ZF is it's own company, based in Germany I think, and Allison Transmission is a division of General Motors
ZF is actually made by Voith, which is a German company to my knowledge. I don't know a lot about them but they are fairly common in transits as are the more popular Allisons.
-F.
There is MAJOR differences:
1) The ZF is a more jerky transmission over the Allison
2) The ZF, However gets up to speed a little quicker than the Allison
3) The ZF is crazy more expensive for replacement parts
4) The ZF is german while the Allison is a American product!
Also, you have to realize there is several ZF and Allsion Models!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I can see that; German stuff is TONS more expensive. In fact, the axles on New Flyer LFs are made by MAN and must be terribly expensive to replace. So which buses came with ZFs? I know that a few Flx Metros and Gilligs did but I also know that most came with Allisons.
-F.
The Volvos and Scanias built for use in the US all had ZF transmissions. Of course, it's been noted at this site that the 3xxx series SEPTA Neoplans also have ZF transmissions. All NJT Novas (along with a handful of the NYCTA 51xx Novas) also have the ZF instead of Allison.
I see; also, I could swear that Tri-Met in Portland has ZFs in some of their Gilligs and Flx Metros. Can anyone verify this?
-F.
A group of Flatbush buses are in storage at the Maspeth Facility: 3503, 3562, 3965, 4873, 4875-4881, 4884, 4886-4887. Also stored are a large group of new white automobiles. No doubt these will be TA support vehicles once blue decals are added........ I hear that there are buses stored around Bay 50th St. on the W line as well. I'll check into that on Wednesday hopefully.
Those buses are all soft-seaters and ran in Ulmer Park before going to Flatbush. The 4800s had come from Staten Island as soft-seaters (though they were built for Staten Island service as 2x2-seating hard-seaters), while the others were converted from hard-seaters before going to Ulmer Park from various depots.
David
Those soft seat 4800's made a brief stop at JAM before moving to FLA
I saw that buses & cars stored at Maspeth Facility on Sunday Morning while i was ridecheck on Q59.
Peace
David Justiniano
That explains why UP hasn'r received any 93/9400's. Apparently, FLA has sent its soft-seaters to storage as they receive 5075-5099 from UP. For some reason FLA has sent 9440-43 over to ENY. Looks like UP is going to get nothing in return for their ZF-tranny 5000s. Shame...
Mark
I think the reason why b/c UP got back some 9200's and 9300's from JG. So they will not get anything back. And some still have Luggage Racks!
The Hi9200's/Low9300's RTS suburbans do not have luggage racks.The only buses that do are the MCI over the road coaches.
ULP got #4497 from FLA and #4742 from FLA. Can we all see a pattern forming. Can u say Ulmer Park screwed again?
Has a bus ever went 120 MPH or faster?
I don't think so. The fastest I heard of from someone in this broad was 80 MPH!! That person said it was a NABI Articulated on Z3 that did 80 MPH!!!
WOW....80 MPH in an articulated? That's amazing. And I thought Pierce Brosnan was the only one who drove a fast Z3...LOL.
-F.
Actually, that was me that said that and it was on the WMATA's Z-11 Briggs Chaney Express Run, not that local Z3 shit!
Yes, Several buses have been clocked at above 100 MPH during test and such, but once buses do passenger service they are cut back to X-amount of speed.
List of buses that have done 100 or better:
GMC New Look (Fishbowl)
MCI D & E Series
Flxible New Look
Prevost H Series
This is all I know of right now! However once you get a bus up to 100 or more, it becomes very unstable, at this point you must have a dead serious death grip on the steering wheel. Also I wouldn't advise doing over 100 in a bus for long as the tires will begin to rip and shred right from under the bus!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Wow! Yeah...I can see the GM and Flx New Looks doing that as they can really haul. I knew that a Flx could do 70 when equipped with an 8v71 and road transmission but 100? WOW! How, pray tell, did you figure this out? I'd love to know...:)
-F.
In Bus World's "Eagle Special" edition there is an article about an 05 Eagle (Continental Trailways of course) experiment. I don't remember the number of buses, but I think it was about 4 of them and another was about to be prepared when the project was cancelled.
The buses had their DD 8V-71N engines replaced with Ford turbine engines that were really powerful. I have to dig up my copy to see if they listed bHP and torque ratings. I do remember that the buses were so powerful that they could take off in ANY gear. The red-line was something really high. The buses were governed to 74 MPH, but without the rev limiter they would've topped out at 113 MPH. I think the fuel mileage is what led to Trailways cancelling this project.
Wayne
1. Is it like if you use a Token. Is it like 1 Token=1 Zone, 2 Tokens=2 Zones,3 Tokens=3 Zones,and 4 Tokens=4 Zones?
2. Do Eldorados run on 118? b/c on the current timetable. It have a photo of #4546. So I think it's running Eldorados. Am I right?
3. What is a best time to get a Eldorado on 118 or 133?
4. What Depot is doing the MFL Weekend Bus Service?
5. After the D40LF order is done. Are there any more Bus Orders comming up for SEPTA?
6. What buses I would see in Norristown on Sundays?
7. Is Norristown is a safe aera?
Thank You for answering!
I can take a stab at a few of those:
"1. Is it like if you use a Token. Is it like 1 Token=1 Zone, 2 Tokens=2 Zones,3 Tokens=3 Zones,and 4 Tokens=4 Zones?"
Zone charges are $0.50, so hypothetically if you use a token to pay zone charges, it would get you 2 zones (and $0.20 more would get you 3 zones), I've never heard of that being done though, or if an operator would allow for that.
"3. What is a best time to get a Eldorado on 118 or 133?"
Not sure about the best times for the 118, but unless the Breeze buses are holding that down, I would say the 133 is all Eldorado.
"4. What Depot is doing the MFL Weekend Bus Service?"
Most likely Frankford and/or Callowhill, unless SEPTA is going to use artics on it, which is a possibility. The artics would come from Allegheny.
"5. After the D40LF order is done. Are there any more Bus Orders comming up for SEPTA?"
On ctrabs74's Frankford Terminal site, he makes mention that SEPTA was looking to order 12 hybrid New Flyer DE40LF buses. Haven't heard much else on that front though.
"6. What buses I would see in Norristown on Sundays?"
Most likely Breeze and Eldorado, and the occasional NABI or Neoplan.
"7. Is Norristown is a safe aera?"
It's safe, provided you'd take the normal precautions you'd take in going to an unfamiliar place.
Hope this is helpful.
1. Is it like if you use a Token. Is it like 1 Token=1 Zone, 2 Tokens=2 Zones,3 Tokens=3 Zones,and 4 Tokens=4 Zones?
[Not quite. For each additional zone, it's 50 cents, not a token for each additional zone (eg. a three zone ride is a token + $1.00]
2. Do Eldorados run on 118? b/c on the current timetable. It have a photo of #4546. So I think it's running Eldorados. Am I
right?
[Yes. With the exception of a couple of peak hour trips which use a 40 ft bus (usually the 3:35pm from King of Prussia/5:10pm from Chester has a 40 ft bus), all 118 trips use an ElDorado.]
3. What is a best time to get a Eldorado on 118 or 133?
[On the 118, generally any trip has an ElDorado (see my answer to #1). AFA the 133, usually the 1:00pm, 3:00pm, and 5:00pm trips (207 block) has an ElDorado, as does the 7:00pm trip from KofP (this is tied in with the late PM Rt 206 service). The 5:00pm trip from KofP and the 6:40pm trip from Exton are through routed with the 92.]
4. What Depot is doing the MFL Weekend Bus Service?
[It depends on which end of the El is down for the weekend. When the Frankford end is down, all depots are involved in the shuttle operations, with Allegheny artics covering the express routing via I-95 and Bridge St. Most of the local buses are from Frankford, Midvale, Comly, and Callowhill. When the Market St end is down, usually buses are used from Allegheny, Callowhill, Midvale, and Southern.]
5. After the D40LF order is done. Are there any more Bus Orders comming up for SEPTA?
[There is an option for an additional 100 D40LF buses after the first batch of 200 buses arrive later this year. There is presently an order for 12 DE40LF buses, with an option for an additional 20.]
6. What buses I would see in Norristown on Sundays?
[I haven't been to Norristown on a Sunday lately, but I would guess 40 ft buses for the 99, ElDorados on the 97 and possibly 98. I don't know for sure about the 93 and 96. You might see an ElDorado on the 96, but I doubt you'd see them on the 93.]
7. Is Norristown is a safe aera?
[Around the terminal, yes. The rest of the town, though, isn't really that safe, IMHO.]
"Not quite. For each additional zone, it's 50 cents, not a token for each additional zone (eg. a three zone ride is a token + $1.00."
I never knew that. And pay 50 Cents to get a Transfer if you use a Token?
"Yes. With the exception of a couple of peak hour trips which use a 40 ft bus (usually the 3:35pm from King of Prussia/5:10pm from Chester has a 40 ft bus), all 118 trips use an ElDorado"
Is the 40 Foot bus on 118 is a NABI?
"AFA the 133, usually the 1:00pm, 3:00pm, and 5:00pm trips (207 block) has an ElDorado"
At least those people that get the 133 are lucky to get a ElDorado instead of a Breeze Van in BAD Shape. It returns to KofP at 1:50,3:50,and 5:53. How about weekends on 133 and anytime on 92?
Did SEPTA tell everybody that works with SEPTA on the fare hike and the DayPass changes?
Thanks.
Someone on the broad said that a Church in Brooklyn have a Neoplan AN440 from SEPTA. Now was it on Ave J near the Train Station on the (Q)?
Was the B86, if it was implemented, supposed to end at 4th Avenue or Shore Road? If the latter would have been the case, what would happen to the B16?
And if the B40 would be combined with the B78, what would go down East New York/Liberty Avenues, the B45 or B65?
1. Nothing would happen to the B16. It would be unaffected.
2. I believe the B45 would have gone down Liberty Ave.
1. Nothing would happen to the B16. It would be unaffected.
So can I imply from this that the B86 would have gone to Shore Road, or to 4th Avenue?
I believe the B86 would have went to 4Av.....
There would have been no change to the B-16 had the B-86 been created
My speculation that the B-65 would have replaced the B-40 to Pennsylvina Ave only because the B-45 has to loop around Buffalo Ave,St Marks Place and Ralph Ave and that will require an additional transfer for current B-45 riders while the B-65 extenstion will not displace any current B-65 passengers
Thank You
I just saw this Polar Ice gum commercial on TV, they are standing at the front of what appears to be an NYCT RTS bus #4425. Anybody seen it?
So did I (Ch 2?) -- front dosent look like a TA RTS and thought I heard a double ring on the bell.
NYCTBusMan2000
Double ring? Which NYC buses have these? And how many have the Talking Bus feature?
-F.
Were you watching Seinfeld?
I think so.
Saw today that bus 2205 in Ulmer Park now has handles on every other seat. This is the only MCI at UP I've seen like this yet. Maybe the TA will retrofit all the other MCIs with handles on the seats like the 20 new ones are supposed to have when they arrive?!?
NYCTBusMan2000
formerly BusMan9293
www.geocities.com/NYCTBusMan2000
All MCI's are going to get handles put on the seat so the stading will have a place to hold.
Robert
Spent most of this afternoon into early evening doing a walking tour of Manhattan, from Christopher & Hudson in the Village, up thru Washington Sq, Union Sq, then up to 34th & 7th before returning to Jersey.
Part of my walk took me thru Madison Square Park where I saw all kinds of Liberty Lines and NY Bus Service Classics lined up for the evening commute (this was around 5:30 PM). Then I headed up Madison and suddenly saw the MCI Classic in a whole new light.
One after the other, those sumbitches were gracefully gliding past, engines whining, front bulkheads weaving up and down as they cruised north. At times, it looked as if many of those buses were drag racing each other, and I tell you, some of them were really hauling ass! It was almost like a race - beacause the Bronx express buses don't all stop at the same stops; you would see one stopped at it's stop, then one that didn't stop there come up from behind and overtake it. Then the one that was stopped would pull away from the curb and yet another one behind it would catch up and they would be alongside each other at a good clip. Quite a site!
I never really noticed this parade until today - kind of like that girl you see every day, then one day, out of the blue, you are suddenly struck by her beauty and are totally obsessed with her.
Those Classics really put on a good show.
BTW - I've also observed the caravan of Staten Island X-bus Cruisers in Lower Manhattan, around Battery Park, but it didn't really grab my attention the same way the above scene did, for some reason.