On my way to work on Wednesday afternoon, I spotted RTS # 4448 working the Q44 line. The old dog was inbound from Queens and heading towards West Farms. The bus sported Casey Stengel logos and appeared to be in pretty good shape. It was odd seeing an RTS on a line that has become the domain of Orion V's.
This bad boy has been seen a lot recently on the Q74 and Q32. Maybe it's an indication of how severe the shortage of local buses really is.
I had gotten used to seeing RTS from JAM depot on the Q44, but to see one with a Stengel decal is something I haven't seen in years.
Wayne
I do not know why the Casey Stengel Depot has 4448 in the first place. It should be either in the Bronx with 4449 or in Brooklyn with the other 4400's
I saw that bus #4448 standing alone this morning at Casey Stengel while i was on ridecheck leaving the Depot. Also i saw GMC #2342 park near the building where they fix the buses.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operations Planning
It seems as the Orion only depots are sometimes getting these old horses as a back up. Last year several 4400's did a short stint in Amsterdam and Mother Hale depots.
I saw today one of the B100 Flexable buses on a flatbed truck. It was striped of most of the windows for what I can see. It was that Red, White & Blue one. So what is the B100 using these days. Since I became a T/O I have not been on the B16 since Octorber 2000.
Robert
Don't you mean B110 operated by Private Transportation ? Not B100 from Command ?
i think he means that. they are using used orion 2s. the buses exterior appears in good shape. i dont believe anyone on this site has ridden them.
Actually those are Orion 01.501 (Orion I).
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK
Thanks Trevor for the correct spelling, And yes I did meen B110.
Robert
the URL www.transitalk.com is back up HOWEVER, we are still moving out of geocities into another more reliable service. So you may enjoy TT as its geocities (Crappy) form until we move into our new server!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
IGNORE THAT MESSAGE REPEAT IGNORE THAT MESSAGE!!!!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Can anyone advise when the Racetrack specials were elminated ,,along with the Bee Line 84
Thank you
Steve
IIRC, the Bee-Line 84 service between White Plains and Putnam was discontinued sometime in the summer of 1999.
Transitalk.com looks fine it's just that the url transitalk.com is not working
BALONEY!!!! I tried getting into the webiste and it DOES NOT EXIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Send the link please.
Did you happen to see the IGNORE POST that followed???????
The new Orion VI's unit number is 955801. Yes, I know that is a 95. Anyone know why???
I got a ride around the Port Authority today in the Greyhound G3 (G4100), Overall, GREAT BUS. I just don't see what the West Greyhound Division's problem with the bus is? I asked the Drivers I was around today and they love it here on the east! Also I found out that in addition to the 25 G4500s (GL3) heading to the west, 22 G4500s will also be heading to the east for Boston-Richmond Region service!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK
You shoud give AOL a try there better than geocities.
AOL doesn't give off enough MBs to run TransiTALK. I have found a new server already and were currently doing the file transfers, expect TransiTALK to be down NO MORE than two weeks!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK
what about nbci.
nbci sucks too! I hear alot of people have issues with them!
TL
then what about 50megs.
50megs has a issue to the amount of pages you are allowed per site, have you seen how extensive TransiTALK is?
The move is to Angelfire!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Trevor logan is part of the lycos network!
If the folks at NovaBUS are smart, they'll take a styling cue from Prevost's new flagship luxury coach.
Granted it is a box, but it has rounded edges, a lovely windshield, and smooth lines.
And here's another plus for making such a case: Prevost and Nova are both owned by Volvo!
My ten cents. Your thoughts?
My thoughts:
Do a redesign of the LFS, make it a little more attractive (not that it's not attractive enough now), throw a little of the Flxible METRO in that billy and BANG BOOM, You have a new Low Floor!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK
No, I'm sorry, the LFS is ugly enough as it is, and the Flxible's "Ghetto Fabulous" styling would not mesh well with that ugly piece of shit.
The Nova low floor should look like an RTS. Not some ugly motor coach, LFS, a rehashed Classic, or even a Flxible (MCI can handle that one).
I don't like that idea.
How about bring the Classic back and have a High Floor model of the Classic and the Low Floor Model of the Classic. The High Floor Model would be call Nova Classic HF. The Low Floor Model would be Nova Classic LF. Since I am a CLASSIC Fan. I would like to see the Classic come back ALIVE!! And make Nova a TOP GUN!!
I agree, make it look like a Classic. The Classic would be preferable to the condom on wheels a.k.a. the RTS.
You know, the MCI E series looks just like a giant RTS. I doubt MCI would like their baby referred to as a giant condom.
Anyway, the Classic was an ugly New Look rip-off. Whoever designed that should be spanked with a paddle. As for the RTS, I hope the guy who designed it is a millionaire and if he's dead, I'm sure he has a spot in heaven. If heaven has cities, I'm sure they have the RTS too. :-)
LOL! What would a day on Bus Talk be like without my favorite RTS defender. Actually I hope the guy who designed the RTS, especially the driver's compartment, is burning in hell! Actually no, I take that back. I hope he is spending eternity crammed into the sadistic RTS driver's compartment driving across a bumpy NYC street!
After spending 8 hours driving bus 9212 (one of our wonderful 1996 RTS 80206's)yesterday, my body today feels like I just played in the Stanley Cup Finals. Ahhh those 1996 RTS 80206's. The bus that loves to transmit every bump up through the driver's seat and directly up your spine. The bus with the driver's compartment designed for double amputee's. God wouldn't be so cruel as to allow RTS's in heaven.
If you like the RTS so much Why not you live in boston!
You must not be reading my post's correctly. I hate the RTS and would love to see them all scrapped.
why do you hate the rts so much??i thought the rts is a outsiding in pick up.and room between the seats.
The RTS is a very durable and reliable bus. In my opinion it's just a very uncomfortable bus to drive. If Nova would just re-design the driver's compartment and make it more ergonomically friendly then I'd have no problem with the RTS.
THEN WHAT BUS DO YOU LIKE?
I like Flxibles, Neoplans, New Flyers, Classics, MCI's, NABI's and most anything else. It's just the !@#$%&* RTS that I don't like.
That would be so COOL!! I love to see GBL trying to order those BUSES!! And that makes Orion7 and New Flyer D40LFI LOSERS!! NOVA SHOULD SHOW THEM WHO'S THE BOSS IN THE BUS WORLD!!
1) The NovaBUS RTS-06 Hybrid order for MTA (6360-6364) is current still in the production phase, 6361-6364 are at the NovaBUS plant in Roswell awaiting the test phase results of 6360. So Far 6360 is highly rated by the Manhattanville bus operators over the Orion Hybrids. MTA is considering ordering Hybrid RTS buses. The RTS will survive another MTA order at this rate!
2) The NovaBUS RTS Low Floor Demo is still alive and well and has been tested on NYC Streets by NovaBUS. The NovaBUS RTS LF kept the RTS look, NOT THE WFD DESIGN. However as per Volvo, the idea is being scraped BUT the demo bus will not be scrapped. Who will keep it is unknown at this time.
3) The first NovaBUS/Volvo Low Floor Demo bus is fully built already, it is not as boxy as previously stated, it does carry some round edges to it. It is slated to be tested in NYC sometime this summer.
4) The LFS will remain in production UNTIL the NovaBUS/Volvo Low Floor is fully proven and in Production!
This information is Current as of 11am this morning, directly from the mouth of NovaBUS which is currently working on 6360 at Detroit Diesel in Lodi, NJ!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK / NJ Transit
Well, this is somewhat reassuring news. I myself would have loved to see a low-floor RTS go into production to continue the RTS legacy into the new century, but if the all-new model is equally distinctive-looking and attractive, I'm sure I'll learn to like it.
And who knows, if the RTS LF demo proves to be successful, maybe they'll consider going ahead with it as an alternative-choice model.
Stranger things have happened in the bus-manufacturing business.
This is great! Hopefully, this will keep the RTS in NYC forever! Thanks very much.
I can't believe that the NYCTA is going to continue with Nova and the RTS-06 after all the crap its put up with to get 5 lousy buses(2yrs and counting).Also is the Volvo/Nova Low-Floor going to be simular in styling to the Volvo's operated by NJTransit(a 40 foot version as compared to there artrics).
>>>I can't believe that the NYCTA is going to continue with Nova and the RTS-06 after all the crap its put up with to get 5 lousy buses(2yrs and counting).<<<
Those "five lousy buses" are from a line that's head and shoulders above the rest of the crap NYCTA has. Also, look at the Orion VII, that's the result of rushing, stupidity, and a lack of common sense. At least Nova is trying to make these buses perfect. You shouldn't be complaining, it's not like the fate of the world depends on those buses geting there in a certain time. But, perhaps you'd like to have a bus fall apart on you in the middle of the expressway. Maybe a rod can shoot up and take out your eye.
No, I doubt you'd like that. And if it did happen, I'd bet you'd be wishing Orion took more time and pride in what they are doing. So give Nova a break, I know you just can't stand the thought of more RTS in NYC, but it's coming closer to being a realitly so unless you move to NJ, you're going to have to deal with it.
You know, I really think you are being too harsh against Orion. I mean, the Orion Is are still running well, and they don't fall apart, and they are pre-1993. Maybe Orion is really starting to fall down as a transit manufactor, but, well, they were always sorta sufficient for me.
"...is the Volvo/Nova Low-Floor going to be similar in styling to the Volvo's operated by NJTransit...?"
No, it will be quite different in both appearance and design; hopefully not as boxlike.
Apparently, RTSs are not as rare on the B51 as they are on other JG routes. It appears that this route, which seems to have the least buses than any other JG route {my belief it has about 3}. I've tried to get a New Flyer over the Manny B the last two Fridays figuring my chances, only to get an RTS. I never see any more RTSs on other JG routes, can anyone explain?
A few months ago I rode on 896 on the B51. This was my first ride ever on a C40LF. They do run them on hte B51-probably just a matter of when.
B51#896Gary
Gary,He's right I work over near City Hall and hardly see any C40LF's on the 51.For some reason it been mainly the 8500's.The only low floors you see now are MV's Orion VI's on the 103.
B51#8560 Steve
M103#6350 Steve
I've been noticing this, too. The B51 is a "seniority" line, and perhaps the Operators who pick the line prefer RTSs.
David
that or there hasn't been a ban of flamable gases like natural gas on the Manhattan Bridge cause I know some of the CTC and QS operators use the the bridge at night instead of driving up to Delancy for the Willie B.
QM1A#501 Steve
QM11#3055 Steve
QM24W#3022 Steve
Perhaps there is a CNG ban on the bridge
not true. I saw a low floor today from MV on 5th Avenue. Not sure if it was a M2,M3 or M5 though.
I rode a C40LF over the Manny B on the B51. I also rode RTS over the Manny B as well. The Low Floors do run on the B51 however. BTW, during the rush hour, there are more than three buses running on the B51. I saw three buses alone get stuck in the Manny B traffic into the city.
B51#801Mike
B51#8538Mike
"........I never see any more RTSs on other JG routes......." Well I saw 8520 on the B43 Saturday evening!!!!!!!
with 190 low floors at Jg (#801-#989)-catching a RTS on the weekend is rare. I occasionally see a RTS on the B68-but thats once in awahile.
The reason why the B51 don't run C40LF's so much. b/c ridership on that route is not low for a Low Floor to run on that route. Last Summer. I got on #861 on B51 to go over the Manny B. And it was STANDING ROOM ONLY!! BUT I did not took the B51 back. I walk on the Brooklyn Bridge to the (R) to go home. BUT when I was at Chinatown last mouth. All 3 Buses on B51 that day where just RTS's!! Sometimes I could see a Orion5 CNG on B51. And one time I saw #8534 on B61. And I got on #8535 on B51 going to City Hall.
B51 Orion5 #317
B51 TMC RTS#8535
B61 TMC RTS#8534
NYCT's scheduled capacity for C40LFs is the same as that for standard-floor buses.
David
Unfortunately, C40LFs can take five persons less than the RTS {65:70} and have four fewer seats {36:40}.
In NYCT's application, scheduled capacities of the C40LF and the RTS are the same (although, as was stated, the C40LF has fewer seats). None of the routes in Jackie Gleason Depot are scheduled for 65-70 passengers per bus; the B-51, being a relatively lightly-used route (for contrast within the same depot, see the B-35), is scheduled for more like 50 per bus during the AM and PM peaks -- and usually doesn't come very close to that number. If any bus on the B-51 route has anywhere near 65 passengers, it's because it's the only bus on the line in the heart of the rush hour -- not impossible, but HIGHLY unlikely, and certainly not the way the line is scheduled.
David
Even though you mentioned that the B51 is a "lightly used route",I have seen in the middle of the day that bus being SRO(when the C40LF's are in use.Downtown Brooklyn has alot tourist now with the opening of Brooklyn Marriot which is right near the start of the B51.And alot of that crowd are tourist on that bus (must be the great pics you can get going over the Manhattan Bridge.I am surprised that the TA doesn't run the B51 on Saturday at least as I see it there is a demand for it.
What is meant by "SRO?" Is it literally "standing room only," meaning all seats are filled, or is it that people are standing even though seats are available (which happens)?
I work in Downtown Brooklyn and see B-51 buses all the time, in both directions. Even in the heart of the rush, I rarely, if ever, see all seats filled and people standing. I find it difficult to believe that this is the case in the midday, even on the line's 30-minute headway, and I don't see it when I observe the buses.
As for providing Saturday service (or Sunday, for that matter), midday riding is a good indicator of what weekend riding would be. There just isn't enough midday riding to indicate sufficient demand for weekend service to justify running it.
David
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Does prevost make cars or buses?
Prevost makes buses, even though their company name is "Prevost Car Company".
It goes back to the old days when Greyhound called all their buses "cars". Some people still refer to them this way.
Prevost also makes a lot of the bus shells set up and ready to go for conversion to motor homes -- actually, they even make completed units. In some states, the official motor vehicle law terminology terms them as "house cars" (California being one of those states).
I like Jamaica depot because they run the route near my house, the Q84. However lately, they have been using the 9000 Nova express buses on the Q17 and the Q42! Why can't we get those on the Q84? Probably because of those Damn I.S.59 kids. this is why most operators frown when they stop at springfield and 120th avenue going towards 238th street, because ur most likely to pick up a 59 brat. Anyways, reporting from Queens division, E to JAMAICA CENTER, subtalk news. Back to you in the studio
I don't know how heavy the ridership is on the Q17, but I know it is light on the Q42. In addition to all the vandalism concerns with soft seaters on local routes, you also have a problem with lack of standing room on a soft seater. The Q84 is a heavy ridership route isn't it? I think every bus route has a school crowd to pick up so I wouldn't be too concerned about "those Damn I.S.59 kids"
The Q17 is a heavily travelled route. One day while working the 7 line, I went upstairs to Main and Roosevelt, and what should be at the Q17 stop: 9268. At the height of "rush hour". Not a good idea..
Q17#9268Mike
The Q84 bus is not that overcrowded. True, the express buses give you less room to stand but that is because of one thing---TOO MANY EXPRESS BUSES! You got Nova express buses 9250-9269, 9278-9281 and 9285 and I guess now 9291 from Jamaica (Q84). Queens Village has 9286-now 9290, 9292-9295! Also, they have 1751, 1767, 1773, 1852, 3807, 3818 and 3824. Ulmer Park in Brooklyn use to have those buses and before that, Yukon in Staten Island had buses 9250-9284 but gave buses 9250-9255 to QV and 9256-9281 to Ulmer Park. Buses 9282-9284 were given to West Side (Now Michael J. Quill). Now buses 9270-9277 are with Michael J. Quill and so are buses 9282-9284. Buses 9296-9344 are still with Ulmer Park and 9345-9349 are still with Jamaica. Also, Orion Suburbans which the majority of them are in storage in Staten Island (Edgewater) and Casey Stengel has 101-119 and 138, 144-146. Castleton in Staten Island has some express buses (127-128, 149-150, 152, 159, 168, 170-172 I THINK!) Also, Yukon in Staten Island has some express buses (126, 139-143) Finally, Ulmer Park, Castleton and Yukon have those MCI's. Buses 1860-1989, 2092-2164 and 2705-2754 are with Yukon. Buses 1990-2091 are with Castleton and buses 2165 to now 2209 (2180-2209 are in delivery) and 2755-2804 are with Ulmer Park. I hope that this has been helpful.
While I agree somewhat that right now there is an overabundance of express buses, mainly the Nova's, what would you rather ride, a 9200 express Nova, or an old rattley 3000? I welcome the 9200s coming to Queens because it finally allows us to get rid of some of the garbage that has been burdoning us for many years now. True, they may be a target for vandals, but there really is nothing else that can be done with them as converting them to hard seaters is out of the question with the interior platform the seats are built on. The AGM running Jamaica depot definitely will not put these buses on any other line than the Q17 & Q42. Eventually as even more of these buses come in, I see the entire Q17 line becoming strictly 92/9300s. It is far better to just replace the seats if they are vandalized than having to buy more new local buses. And to sooth some of you guy's anxieties, I have not seen one Express bus yet running on the local lines that has been vandalized. (knock on wood)
BIG AL
When I took the Q17 on Monday, the only Suburban that I saw was 9266. I had 4349. 4570 8963 9555 8947 were among the ones that I saw that day. Today I only saw 9291. I look forward to riding many of the Suburbans on the Q17 but they should be used on that line only if it is absolutely necessary.
I also agree that Queens will not see MCI. To be honest Thank God. Why? Because they're just too big and the aisles are too small. I just don't see them on our streets here. I'm glad that the other boroughs are dealing with them.
I agree that the RTS Express should be in consideration years down the road for Queens. From what I saw, there's no back door on these buses. Where are these buses in service now or is this a test bus?
What model is this, RTS-06? I like the look of it very much.
Q17#9262Gary
Q17#4349Gary
Pardon me for asking such a dum question at the end of the last post-Not where but the model of the bus. I just saw that it's an RTS SS on Trevor's post. My bad!!! That's what you get when you're half asleep. ;)
X64#9278Gary
Got #1149 on Q60 today. I notice that the Color of the lights are not the same. And the back doors on #1149 open by itseif!! I was SHOCKED!! The back doors on other GBL TMC RTS's that you have to press the tape to open the back door. This is what you see everyday on Q60.
Q60 TMC RTS#1149
1149 is former QSC 275. GBL received QSC buses 275-281 and renumbered them from 1143-1149. That's why the lights in the rear are "shaped" differently than 1150-1182. They alos received QSC Orions 700-705 which are now known as 5545-5550. Hope this helps you out.
Q60#1148Gary
Q60#5547Gary
Not the Lights at the REAR END of the Bus. I talking about the lights inside #1149 that the lights inside of #1149 is a diffent color then the regular one. It's like a Peach Color on the lights inside. and I never saw a bus with that type of color of lights inside the bus.
QS has more of a clouded lens on the interior lights of it 94 RTS-06's than its TA(8600-8703) and DOT counterparts.And as gary said previously 1149 at GBL was orignally 275 at QS.Also the QS buses that went to JBL has them as well.
Q67#350 Steve
Q11#1149 Steve
Q110#3860 Steve
Q23#2803 Steve
Q56#8699 Steve
Do anybody know's if what Route the DART First State Gillig Low Floors run on?
11X Gillig Low Floor#101
The Gillig low floors generally can be used on any line in New Castle County that uses 40 ft buses, with the exception of routes contracted to Gregg's Bus Service (Krapf's operations in Delaware) - specifically, the 50 and 60 series routes using cutaway buses - and the 32 - City Circuit.
I needed to know b/c I saw a photo of a Gillig Low Floor doing on RTE 11X with the headsign saying "11X I-95 EXPRESS". And also anouther photo of it on RTE 10. And is Wilmington is the best place to get it? Since I might be going to Wilmington in August.
All 7 of the Gillig Low Floors are assigned out of the Wilmington garage, so the only place they would be running would be in and around Wilmington and New Castle County.
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Does anyone remembers the following from circa Winter 1993 - a RTS bus caught fire in the air conditioning unit on Northern Blvd and Parsons (right in front of the Sunrise Video store which is now a Mandee) - no one was hurt but the bus looks totalled.
There is a pic of it on a web site (http://www.angelfire.com/ny4/fdnyphotos/4468.html) but I can't tell the number. Its a Stengel bus for sure.
Does anyone remember what it was? Might it have been RTS 1738 - which I vaguely remember sitting in the Stengel Yard with it air conditioning unit burned.
Kinda reminds me of Orion 543 - sitting in Stengel now with part of its back burned. BTW, any plans to repair and repaint that bus or will it just go scrap?
Also - news that Orion 575 has received the LED light replacement in its latest painting. I think this is the first Orion 5xx to get that treatment.
Flx7595
Could it have been 4468?
4468 is the fire alarm box number for northern and parsons
I doubt it. I looks to be a 1981-82 vintage RTS. There is no rear destination sign - at least it looked that way to me.
That reminds me.
I heard that. There was a Bus Fire up in Halifax,Nova Scotia. Metro Transit Nova Classic #963 was on Route 15 doing AM Rush. The Front was on Fire and there was about 40 People on #963 at the time of the fire. No one was hurt. And the B/O was not hurt eather. I have a photo of #963 after the fire. Someone send the photo to me. The link to the photo would be posted here later.
<>
You have the photo but you want someone to send the photo to you?
I do have a photo of that bus. Just got the photo by this person name David just a few days ago.
The bus in this fire was 1739. 1739 was the last 1700 Coach that ran out of CS Depot at that time. 1740-1745 were out of QV Depot. 1746-1750 JAM. 1738 ran out of Jamaica Depot shortly before she was retired. I remember 1738 because she was the 1st Suburban bus that I ever rode on-and of all the lines it was on the Q17. 4468 always ran out of the Bronx Division.
Q13#4448Gary
Q46#1751Gary
Thanks for the information Gary.
flx7595
In 1982, buses 1734-1745 were with Casey Stengel, buses 1746-1756 were with Jamaica and buses 1757-1770 were with Queens Village. Buses 1740-1742 were with QV BUT they never started at QV, they started out at CS. I know because I use to live in Queens until 1997! Plus, I know most of the drivers at all three Queens depots.
I believe it was bus 1739 because it has sat at the Casey Stengel bus depot for about 8 years before it was scrapped. Also, bus 575 was not the first to get that LED treatment, bus 522 was from Casey Stengel.
Didn't 522 get the orange LED destination sign? I'm talking about the rear lights like many (but not all) the 2xx and 4xx repowered buses have gotten. I'm not talking about destination signs.
Last I saw (2 weeks ago) 522 has its old non LED rear brake and signal lights. Unless something happened this week, only 575 has the LED ones for the 5xx series of Orions (not counting 500-504 on SI, which I do not know about.
flx7595
The 500s are coming up for a 5 year overhaul so it's probably part of the paint package
452 has em
and i think i saw 400 or 401 naked (no ad's) last week with the LEDs too
Not 401. Saw her today with her old lights , old paint and "401" on the roof. Maybe it was 400.
452 and 453 have em. Strangely, 453 has no roof exhaust. It's closed up. Yet all other 400's, 500's and 600's have them. This bus looks like a 1993 Orion (Pre-re-powered)
Any reason for this? Old motor? New motor? bottom exhaust?
flx7595
NABI has made a stange looking RTS. Click here to see.
it does even look like a nabi.it like the nabi is copying the rts
design.it the the orion 7 vs. the new flyer d40lf.
Makes the New Flyer Invero look normal...
The Bus you are talking about look's nothing like an RTS in any shape or form. It is indeed the American version of a very successful little bus built in Yorkshire England by OPTARE and is called the OPTARE SOLO. A batch of 75 of this type have been built at the English factory for AMERICAN EAGLE AIRLINES for airside service work and is Marketed as a NABI bus by Optares parent company NORTH AMERICAN BUS INDUSTRIES.
It has been a good steady seller in this country with sizeable orders going to big bus group's like First Bus and smaller operators who are doing Dial-a-ride duties. The main difference is that over here a lot of them are engined by MERCEDES while the US market is getting the good old Cummin's B series.
The design is quite new and as you have seen DIFFERENT. Optare as a company in my opinion have a better bus than this for the US market, it is the Optare EXCEL a bigger and better bus all round it is the type of thing that the NY MTA should be looking at.
It looks like a deformed RTS to me.
I have seen photos of the Excel and I agree with you, it is a very attractive vehicle that could be adapted to USA transit standards.
I was talking about the hybrid electric bus on the bottom.
now THATS a bus id LOVE TO SEE IN NYC :-)
That Bus do not look like a RTS. It looks like a LFS with a SLF Door. It looks COOL!!!
It looks like a RTS with half of the bus is deformed.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU COULDN'T PAY ME TO RIDE ON THAT FREAKFEST!!!
That looks nothing like an RTS and BTW, it's spelled W-E-I-R-D.
Im talking about model 30c-lf
You guy's are really on a downer with this little bus. When you see the Bus "in the flesh" and ride it then you can critise it. The best selling small bus over here is the Dennis Dart. This bus the Optare Solo is even cheaper to run per mile than that, it is getting NEW and Repeat orders and even Stagecoach are trying them out.
If you guys were honest you would have to admit that the US bus building industry is in VERY poor condition. Most of the good stuff to come out in the past few year's has British origin's. The Chance OPUS is based on an WRIGHT bodied Norhern Ireland design, over here we have bigger and better model's from the same people the SOLAR and the FUSION artic have a choice of Scania or Volvo engines and are tailor made for the US.
THOMAS have the SLF200 on offer. That started in Scotland as the ALEXANDER ALX200 and again has a bigger version over here the ALX300 on either a MAN or VOLVO chassis.
As for Optare or NABI they should go for the EXCEL for the US market's it will wipe the floor with some of the tosh that you are using now.
I have jpeg's about 1mb in size if any of you want to look at REAL buses. Just let me know I dont want to clutter up these pages with pix.
what the different between detroit diesel series 50 and 60?
Two cylinders and about 50% more horsepower......
Two Cylinders (Series 50 being a Four and the Series 60 being a Six)
The Series 50 is 8.5 Liters and the highest HP Rating is 325. The Series 60 is either 11.1 Liters up to 370 HP, and 12.7 Liters up to 500 HP. Also the Series 60 carries the Jacob's Brake Option.
The Series 50 caters to the Industrial, Transit Coach, Motor Coach, Truck (Semi), Fire Truck and Generator Set Markets. The Series 60 caters to the Motor Coach, Fire Truck, Truck (Semi), Australian ADR70 Truck, Generator Set and Marine Markets.
Hope that helps you out!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
so that mean that that the ddc 60 burns more fuel because it has two more cylinders than the 50 series.i already know that the dcc 60 was a 6 cylinders version of the
ddc 50 series,which has 4
but what i did not know what kind of transportian that the dcc 60 used
on.(it seen to me that the ddc is used on faster vehicals)
Usually if an engine's displacement is increased it's torque (and many times horsepower too) ratings will increase. It's not just the extra cylinders. It happens quite often in the automobile industry. A good example is BMW's 2.8 inline six that was increased to 3.0 liters and horsepower went from 193bhp to 225bhp, making the 328i the 330i.
Wayne
i think the more liters they have the more powerful.take this
one as a example like the ford mustang the ones with 5.0liter sound
much more powerful than the 4.0 version.
i think the more liters they have the more powerful.take this
one as a example like the ford mustang the ones with v6 5.0liter sound
much more powerful than the 4.0 version.
Yes, increasing the liters/cc/ci is increasing the displacement or size. So to increase the size pretty much a guaranteed way to make the engine more powerful. Of course it will consume more fuel also. Also... Some corrections on the Ford Mustang. The 5.0 was a V8 (not V6) and it was actually 4.9 liters. The Mustangs' V6 engine is 3.8 liters. Ford has since replaced the old 5.0 OHV (pushrod) V8 with a newer SOHC 4.6 V8. Ford's 4.0 V6 engines are only used in their trucks.
Fellow BusTalkers - I not I'm off topic here, but please bear with me.
Wayne
when i was taking about the mustang i was taking about
the 1980's mustang not the 1990's
The V-8 thing also applies to 80's Mustangs. In the 80's the engine choices were either the 5.0 V8 (standard in the GT, optional in LX) or the 2.3 4 cylinder which was standard in the LX model.
Wayne
What ever happen to the ddc 92 series?
And what is the differenc between the 6V92 and the series 60 if both are 6 cylinder? (I thought both series 50 and 60 were 4 cylinder, and that the 60 was simply the bigger version for the overthe road coaches. It dosn't sound like a 6 cylinder engine, but rather like the Cummins, and natural gas, or like an 8 cyl. non-DD truck engine
There are two huge difference between them is that 6V-92 & 8V92 as well as the 71-series are all 2-stroke designs, meaning that they perform the intake-compression-ignition-exhaust cycle in 2-stokes. (intake and exaust then compression and ignition are performed together within the engine cylinder.) The Series 60 as well as the 50 are 4-stroke designs, like that of the Cummins Engines. All Series 60 and Series 50 engines have their cylinders arranged inline, while the 92's are V-configured.
There are two huge difference between them, they are, that 6V-92 & 8V92 as well as the 71-series are all 2-stroke designs, meaning that they perform the intake-compression-ignition-exhaust cycle in 2-stokes. (intake and exaust then compression and ignition are performed together within the engine cylinder.) The Series 60 as well as the 50 are 4-stroke designs, like that of the Cummins Engines. All Series 60 and Series 50 engines have their cylinders arranged inline, while the 92's are V-configured.
And plus that The 71's and the 92's being two-strokers, they have a high-emission content (which would make it illegal in new bus applications in The U.S.). The 92's, I've heard, are still being used in new buses for Mexico, and South America. But still, the 50, 60 (and hopefully 70) series has more torque and horsepower than a comparable Cummins.
I heard that the DDC 92 SERIES can have AS many as 16 cyclinders.
16-92
Like Kurt Angle would say, It's True, It's damn true!!
NO WAY! Bet that's a screaming machine. Drop one of those babies in a Flx Metro 30-footer and stick it on a dragstrip....I'd LOVE to see that baby cook up a burnout!
-F.
if you put the 16 cylinder engine with 1105hp inside
a 30 feet bus that thing will do burnout forever.
The Series 50 & 60 are indeed related, but the 60 is a six cylinder and the 50 is a four cylinder engine.
Wayne
How many cylinders does the DDC 40 have.
Anyway the DDc 60 seen to begin there horsepower ratings at
330 hp all the way up to 450hp.While ddc 50 have horsepower end there
horsepower ratings at 330 horsepower.It seen to me that the ddc 60 is
a very powerful version of both of DDC30,DDC50,engines.
peace out
patkylekenny
Actually it's the other way around, the Series 50 is derived from the 12.7L Series 60. The I would say the Series 60 burns more fuel but not a whole lot more than the Series 50.
Can't wait for The Series 70 (the V-8 version). I want more power Mr. Scott.
Apologizing beforehand, the difference between 50 and 60 is..............
10!!
jeez that was bad
I got some BAD News.
Due to low production from Orion in the US in Orinsky, NY, they cutback alot of the emplyees. So what does it mean is that deliveries of buses to Brampton Transit,GO Transit,and Oakville Transit will be delayed about 1-2 months. And this is BAD then I thaught. From Orion7 looking like a peace of SHIT to this? What the HECK is going on with Orion?
BTW.GO Transit Orion5 Suburban 2008-17 are suppose to delivered already to Steeprock Garage. But there still at the Orion plant in Mississauga doing some checking.
they probady have suck low in demand of they new orion 7.aka(bad bus)
hello check out crazy taxi 2 there are orions, r110a and the 81st stops also check out the bus termianl in the game enjoy!
It is now a 99.9% chance that the 1989 Flxible Model 40096-6T and 40102-6T METRO "B" Transit & Suburban Buses will be replaced by NovaBUS RTS T80-206.
The Transit Versions will be Standard NovaBUS RTS T80-206 (Twins to the newer 1999-2000 units). The Suburban Versions will be the NovaBUS RTS T80-206 WFD Super Suburbans. Also Consideration is out for 5 NovaBUS RTS T80-206 CNG buses to replace the 1991 Flxible Model 40102-6C METRO "C" buses currently operating out of the Hamilton Bus Facility.
Transit Versions needed are 21 units.
Suburban Versions needed are 487 units.
Possible CNG Transit Versions needed are 5 units.
Replacements are set to take place in 2003-2004.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
"P.S. New Flyer and NABI are still in battle for the NJT Articulated Replacement, everyone keeps say that the "Canadian" firm is gonna get it! I HOPE NOT, I WANT SOME NABI'S HERE!"
I had honestly thought that NJT was going to cut its ties with NovaBus after the RTS-6B fiasco - with several of the newer RTS having the engine problems and other problems documented on this site - but I guess everything's fine now.
I hope that NJT realizes that some buses are going to have to be 96" wide, in order to accomodate the lines which operate via the Holland Tunnel. I know that is the case with the D4000 order, so hopefully, NJT will order some T8O-606 coaches.
AFA the CNG buses, I have rarely seen the NGV1-5 fleet on the road in recent years. Most of the time, these buses are stored outside of Hamilton Garage. I think the last time I saw one of the NGV buses was early last year, but then again, I haven't been to Trenton as often as I would have liked.
BTW, what was the thinking behind that 22 bus purchase (1700-1721) in 1989? It's almost as if the 1700-1721 order was somewhat out of place, considering NJT has historically purchased hundreds of buses at once.
I would love to see a NABI in disco stripes, now if they could only give us back the old windshield with the appearance of an integrated destination sign, like SEPTA's & WMATA's buses.
Trevor, was that a typo on the number of suburbans? If that value is correct, then NJT is really bulking up on service. There are only 387 Metro B suburbans (3000-3280, 3500-3605), so to order 487 would imply a big fleet increase. (There would also be 22 transits - 1700-1721.) And as Creighton mentioned, they would need a handful of 96-inchers for the 120 Bayonne-Wall Street.
Not sure if replacing NGV1-5 is a good idea. Either make all 27 of the transits CNG and put them all at Hamilton (and move 22 RTS up to Greenville), or don't bother. Five buses is not worth the money, especially to the maintenance department.
Strictly on appearance, I agree the NABIs look better. I would still say NABI's use of the longer wheelbase on the front section will be its demise, as I'm sure NJT is looking for a replacement that turns at tightly as possible - the Volvos can turn on a dime, and the NF D60 is not far off of that.
It's not just the 120 - Bayonne/Wall St line. I believe that the company FKA Drogin (Coach USA/Trans Hudson Express) also operates some service via the Holland Tunnel. If the 487 figure is correct, then that probably factors in the 3700-3791 Metro D series - plus extra buses.
Yes, TransHudson/R&T would need a handful as well, but considering they've dropped a lot of their Staten Island service (only the 144 remains, and at rush hour only), I wouldn't be surprised if TH drops that route before the new buses are delivered.
It would be interesting that they dump the Metro D suburbans at just 9 years of age, yet keep the Metro D transits. But like the Eagles, getting rid of the Flxibles as soon as possible would be a plus, before they become difficult to repair.
I don't think NJT will be getting rid of the Metro D Suburbans that quickly. It's possible that NJT is setting up this Nova RTS Suburban order for beyond 2004, perhaps even staggering the order from 2003-2006.
The Flxible METRO-D is not going anywhere. The METRO "D"s are going through changes as we speak, one being that the Luminator SMART Lights (Example: MTA 86xx TMC RTS & DOT TMC RTS) are being replaced with the new Transmatic L20 Lights (Example: MTA 6xxx Orions & 9350 On Up RTS). Also there is two South Jersey METRO "D"s sporting new schemes, One something similar to the "Baby" Novas and one silmilar to that on the new MCIs.
I missed counted by 100, yes there is going to be some 96" wide buses in this order (T80-206 and T80-206). However, don't expect 281 96" wide buses to replace 281 96" wide Flxible METRO "B"s. The goal is for more comfort, wide buses means wider seats! Expect something like the MCI order, like 80%/20%, being 80% of the 102" wide buses.
Also the reasoning for the 21/5 Transit Style order is that 1700-1721 and NGV1-NGV5 do need to be replaced in the same year!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK
I imagine the MCI "ocean wave" stripes would look terrific on the Metros and RTSs, but only if they back off on the side ads (which won't happen - they need the money). The baby RTS scheme is nice, but the "NJ TRANSIT" logos are about half the size as normal. So NJT will have to decide: ocean wave covered by ads all the time, or full length stripe with tiny names.
There was a bid listing a couple of months ago for the Metro-Ds to get Diallight LED taillights, similar to the 1999-2000 RTS and the new MCIs. That should help cut costs in the maintenance department when all the buses, regardless of make/model, can use the same parts.
Overall, this is good news for Nova. Continued confidence by NJT, and it looks like MTA-NYCT will be ordering more as well. Volvo, Henlys, Prevost, and Nova should all be very happy. Now if they could re-introduce the RTS artic, NJT could be down to just 2 manufacturers.
Actually the Smart move would be the Ocean Wave and have it as such.....
Have the Ocean wave come clean over the front wheelwell, move the NJ Transit Logo to over the rear wheelwell, making room for the Ads, However on the door side, you can not help but over a piece of the wave. I will have to find out this bus numbers and track it down.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK
I'll keep my eyes open for those buses.
Personally, I'd rather see the MCI paint scheme on the Flxibles instead of the disco ribbon. Boy, does that ribbon suck...
Didn't Hamilton recently trade a lot of their 30 footers for Flxibles with somebody, and if so who ? I don't see them on the 605 anymore.
An RTS/WFD/Super Suburban is how wide ?
Hamilton still has their 30 ft buses. It was Newton Avenue which sent their 30 ft buses to Coach USA/Community Transit in Patterson for use on the Bergen contract (75x/76x) routes.
The RTS WFD/Super Suburban is 102" wide.
perfect for staten Island with standees I would say
Geez, NJ Transit's fleet is really going to suck now, with justa bunch of RTSs running around (although I'm sure Metro-Houston would love that). Thank god there aren't RTS articulateds, or NABI and New Flyer wouldn't have a flying chance. Besides, why doesn't NJ go the Low Floor way, like other major transit authorities?
New Flyer would have a flying chance because they make decent buses. NABI has too much baggage dragging behind it from the Ikarus days.
As for NJ Transit's fleet, they'd probably have Flxibles, RTS, New Flyer Artics (hopefully), and MCIs. That's more than sufficeint. SEPTA consists of decent at best Neeoplans and hideous shoebox NABIs with some having a history of trouble. The same SEPTA that's in financial trouble mind you. Sucky buses and sucky managemnt structure. Phew, glad I don't live in Philly. Really, you're in no position to discuss how much other people's fleets suck.
And believe it or not, the RTS is making a comeback. The TAs have seen the rest, now they want the best. With NFI dominating on the west and Nova coming back to the east, things may just be looking up for the transit industry after all.
Sadly, in Houston all of our RTS are gone. Fear not, I strongly believe that after this last batch of Flyers come in, we'll be going to Nova to purchase some RTS to replace the last of those crappy LNG buses. As for now, our fleet consists of Flyers, Ikarus, various types of Neoplans, Mercedes, Ferroni mini-buses, and soon we'll have MCIs.
How do you like that?
NJ doesn't go low floor because of the need for space efficiency of equipment - the more passengers that can be seated, the better. The majority of NJT's passengers are riding during rush hour, and are coming from suburbs to a city. Low floor buses lose more seats than they gain in standees, and being a statewide agency, it's to NJT's advantage to purchase as few models as possible so that equipment can be moved around the state as needed. LFs could work in the Newark area, but that would result in hundreds of buses that would be out of place elsewhere in the state where trips aren't as short. There are only 50 transit artics, so leaving them in Newark is not as big a deal.
Who knows, maybe one day, they might send a few artics south. During the summer months, some of the Egg Harbor routes (especially the 507 - AC/Ocean City) really fill up quickly. Year round, some of the Philadelphia/Camden to mall routes (400 to Deptford, 403 to Echelon, and especially the 404/405 to Cherry Hill) often come close to having standing loads. Then again, I don't know if any of the garages are equipped to handle maintenance on artics, as they are at Hilton, Big Tree, Meadowlands, and Fairview.
I would imagine that in some areas the new MCI's are too big for the streets around it. Why wouldnt NJT consider a purchase of one type of bus for its suburban routes. I would imagine the MCI's are more comfortable than a regular transit bus?
Does anyone know why they wouldnt have one type of bus serving all of nyc? Wouldnt that be easier for servicing??
When NJT first ordered the MCIs in 1982, neither the RTS or 870/Metro offered suburban versions. After nearly 20 years of riding the MCIs (and Eagles), NJT knew the passengers would revolt if they were "downgraded" to transit-based suburbans. The 1989 Metro B subs replaced the 1976 Flx New Look subs on routes where MCIs weren't generally used.
>>>When NJT first ordered the MCIs in 1982, neither the RTS or 870/Metro offered suburban versions<<<
Um, are you sure? NYCTA had RTS suburbans dating back to 1981.
NYCTA only had high-back seats, same as the Fishbowl T6H5310. The RTS Suburban was introduced in 1984.
I think (actually I'm sure) he's referring to a genuine suburban - not a transit with high-backed seats.
Wayne
The Golden Gate Transit RTS's are sort of Suburbans, though without luggage loaders, and the rear exit door is the wheel chair lift. When were they built ?
The GGT RTSs were standard transit buses that were sent to a custom upfitter for the interior. The first of those were 1982s, I believe - Steve Hoskins knows a lot more about those.
one more question: How many people will they be able to fix on the nova's? I know the 47 pax buses we have here on the 190 are just a little to small for rush hour. Also the stupid humps in the back that give the bus a school bus feel
Today walking up 5th avenue i saw some of the MTA X buses. They keep so much space for the handicaped seats. I hope NJT doesnt do that. I know they need a certain numbers for ADA. Does anyone know if they could have the rts with a MCI type handicapped seat??
Yes, they can, that's the whole point of the Super Suburban, they can house MCI Style seats and MCI Style Luxury at about 35% cheaper of the cost. The Cost of a MCI Cruiser is between $325,000 and $365,000. The Cost of a Nova Super Suburban is $277,000 and $295,000.
On The Nova SS the wheelchair would load through the front door and then the seats beyond the first transverse seats would either be like the seats on the NJT "METRO D" or like the new MCI Cruisers, but in that sense it would be more time consuming on the Nova to have it "MCI" styled!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Hmm...Nova SS. Kinda makes it sound like an old 70s musclecar!
How about a Neoplan AN 440 Six Pack? Or an Orion Mach I? Nothing like a bus burning down the dragstrip...LOL!
-F.
Hey, check out Nova's brochure for this product.
They're serious.
LOL! Yeah, but a Grummlin X could blow the doors off any one of those! ;)
On that note, go to arcticboy.com and hit the "Strange AMC" link...I did a humorous drawing of a "Gremlin Flxible" bus. You've gotta see it!
-F.
Of course, the Nova SS isn't really brand new, I've heard about it a while ago. In addition to that, for those Staten Island people who keep complaining about the MCIs, NYC should sell at least some of the MCIs and get some Nova SSs. Then, that solves the problem of the small space for the machine and the wheelchair lifts. Plus, shouldn't there be room for standees as well? How wide are MCI buses anyway, and if they are about the normal width of transit buses, why is there such a narrow aisle?
The reasoning for the tight aisle is the width of the seats. The seats on the MCI Cruisers are wider than those on the Orion and Nova Semi-Suburbans! Yes, The Nova SS is not that new, HOWEVER, they just revamped the entire bus so its "like new" again!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Speaking of style, it seems like the stakes have been raised in Europe by Orion's sister company, Setra. (Both are owned by DaimlerChrysler, just in different places in the company's heirarchy)
I ran across this yesterday.
my bad here it is again:
Setra 400-series
That K setra looks better than a Gillig!
Very cool. Very nice. Just you watch how many people will gobble this coach up, giving it rave reviews and so many oooohs and aahhhhhs by passengers. No transit authority will purchase any of these. Too nice for them.
CWalNYC
MTA_MCI_2189
Saw the premier of the show on HBO last night. Its about a family that owns a funeral parlor in LA. The show opens with the father taking the brand new hearse to the airport to pick-up one of his sons who is flying in for a visit.
On the way to the airport he is broadsided by a bus and dies.
The bus was a Flxible 870-D (Sorry Trevor). Although it was an aerial shot you could still see the Grumman logo on the top in the back.
Hopefully the bus and hearse were carefully parked to simulate a crash. It would be a terrible waste of an 870.
According to news reports a bus bound from a Philly suburb to AC with a group of seniors was involved in a crash on Route 42, 10 miles S/E of Philly at about 10 AM.
Apparently a Honda Accord that may have been racing another car, crossed the median of the highway and slid sideways was broadsided by the bus. The two fatalities were in the car. Fifty people were injured, including the bus driver who was hospitalized.
The bus was operated by VecTour, Inc based in Blue Bell, Pa but may have operated out of a depot in Easton (Boxer Larry Holmes's hometown).
Police claimed that the bus had a full load of 55 passengers and a driver. No mention as to the make of the bus.
What motorcoaches can carry 55 passengers? Is it an Artic-type ?
I saw some video of the crash on the news here just a few minutes ago. It was footage shot from a helicopter, but from what I could see it was either a newer Prevost or MCI model.
Mark Watson
Fox news had its obligatory gruesome closeups; it appeared to be a Prevost. The number was 58-something.
45-foot motorcoaches generally have 55 seat layouts with lavatory as the standard interior plan.
MCI D, E, G, J series
Prevost H3-45, LeMirage XL-45, LeMirage XL-II 45
Van Hool T and C series
Setra S215-45
Neoplan Cityliner, Starliner
I was talking to one of my friend from Ulmer park. He told me that the last time Jackie Gleason CNG's fuling station went down, that UP put two MCI's on the B74 & two MCI's in the B64. I would have like to see the people faces when one pulled into one of these stops. Also the Rest of the B64's were 9300's.
Robert
thats really strange as i have asked for an orion suburban for the s61 and was told they cant go on local lines. they arent needed for express routes. i was told they can be put on school trips. go figure this asinine outfit out.
I was talk talking to a friend out of UP and he told me that they will be losing the B1, B4 & B64 all to JG. In return UP will get all of the Subway Shuttles when Stilwell Ave closes. UP will get about 400 run for these shuttles. Buses will be parked somewere near Stillwell Ave just like when the Willy B. was closed. If this is true then what sould the Drivers call this mini Depot. Any thoughs.
Robert
Apparently these will be picked runs as opposed to RDO shuttles. If they are picked runs, the operators will lose the half-time overtime pay usually alloted to RDO shuttles. If they're not picked runs, I can't imagine one depot covering these shuttles as RDO /DBL pieces.
At Queens Village, we're also going to receive plenty of shuttle work. In addition to the QB44D (EFG Court Square / Queens Plaza / 21st Queensbridge) and possible the A shuttle, we've been alloted multiple MTA Long Island Rail Road shuttle work. As I understand it, this will all be RDO / DBL / OT work. We'll have at least 2 routes operating 24/7. Jamaica Station to Queens Village Station and Jamaica Station to Hillside Facility (via Liberty) which is an Employee Facility for LIRR.
Our Union refused to service Nassau County because of State politics and the NYCTA Rules and Regulations where conflict may arise.
We may receive other LIRR work, however this is all I'm aware of at present.
Long Island Bus will not be servicing these shuttles, as I understand it.
So all those soft seat Orions sitting in SI may come into play one of these years after all.
The QB44D shuttle designation has been changed to the QB63S for the summer pick.
What are the dates of operation for this project, please?
Stillwell Ave Station is not being completly closed. What will happen is that the N Line will terminate at 86th Street for several years and that a shuttle bus will operate between the 86th Street N Line Station and Stillwell Ave Terminal. Stillwell Ave Terminal will be rebuilt as follows:1- Sea Beach N Line Tracks
2- Brighton Line ( D,Q Line) Tracks. These trains will then use the Sea Beach Line Tracks. At the same time the Culver F Line tracks will be closed with F trains terminating at Avenue X and a Shuttle Train between West 8th Street and Avenue X.
3- West End Line (B or W Line) Tracks. These trains will then use the Sea Beach Line Tracks.
As you can see only one Shuttle Bus route will be needed
Thank You
I saw this riding home today on the "B" train. 3 buses parked near W 12th st not far from Ave Z. There were three of them, the only number i could see on one of them was #3966. Any reason these are there?
That would PS248 over there, an old public school converted into classrooms and training facilities for the TA.
Dont know about the buses.
I was watching Channel 7 around 6:15 and they said that Bergen Mall wants NJTransit to pay rent for using their space. Anotherwords, paying rent for dropping off passengers. WHAT?!!!! That does not make any sense. By June 30th, NJTransit must come up with a solution or an agreement or some routes will be affected like for example:
NJ155
NJ157
NJ168
NJ171
NJ751
NJ752
NJ753
NJ755
NJ756
These bus routes will end at the outside of the mall. What is your opinion?
You can read more about this conflict in Jeffrey Page's column from the Bergen Record this past Sunday: The Road Warrior - Bergen Record 6/3/01.
NJT has no interest in an "agreement". According to the article, Jeff Warsh is ready to pull all routes out of Bergen Mall, and either have them stop on the street near the mall or bvypass it altogether.
By the way, the 155 and 157 are expresses of the 168 that do not serve Bergen Mall, and you left out the 762.
My opinion is that Bergen Mall doesn't want "those people" in their mall. I hope Warsh doesn't give in an inch. It is outright discrimination to do that while not charging people "rent" to park their overgrown tonka toys.
MSBA/LIB has been victim to this too. Thrown out of Mid-Island Plaza when it was rebuilt into Broadway Mall, then the bus stops at Sunrise Mall pushed farther away from the buildings across the parking lot to the access road.
And both malls aren't doing well. Sunrise and Broadway aren't doing as well as other LI malls. These malls get what they deserve.
I've passed by Bergen Mall, they gear to lower income people who ride the bus, so the mall is just shooting themselves in the foot.
Several years ago, Ted Koeppel did a program on how different races have different views of an incident. One example was of a young black girl in Buffalo who was taking the bus to her job at the Galleria Mall up there. She got off the bus on a snowy day and decided to jaywalk between all vehicles stopped at a light on this major street rather than backtracking to a crosswalk. The light turned green for the traffic and she unfortunately fell under the rear wheel of a tractor-trailer and was killed.
The minority community, while absolving the truck driver, claimed it was the racial bigotry of the mall since no buses were allowed in the mall because the "up-scale" stores didn't want "those kind of people" to patronize them.
I guess history has a way of repeating itself. If the re-routes have to occur I pray that no one is killed like the young lady in Buffalo.
If the mall could prove its contention that most of the passengers are just using the mall as a transfer point and not going inside to do some shopping, why not put a small kiosk by the stop and sell sodas, coffee, papers, snacks as is done at some LIRR stations ?
Absolutely pitiful! Bergen Mall isn't exactly a nice mall to begin with. Reminds me of the lousy Broadway Mall in Hicksville which kicked buses out years ago.
Want to know what would be worse; that other malls will get the same idea, charging TA's rent. Plus not only the buses bring in customers (the new rule in business; the customer is always WRONG), but also the employees (screw them too) as well. I hope that The Gallery doesn't charge rent to SEPTA, and The Echelon don't charge rent to N.J. Transit, because that would be suicide.
This ironic that being Simon owns the Bergan Mall as does Roosevelt Field which ironically moved its bus stops to near the back of the Mall when it started going upscale.
Simon owns Rockaway Mall but is PABCO getting this? No! Ileft out Lakeland or whoever's running those commuter routes now as they do not stop near the mall(LL is near that new Hilton, Lot 33 and that's an NJDOT Park & Ride).
Yes, I did forget one route NJ762. Thank you all for your answers. I hope that NJTransit does not budge on this. I was alos fascinated by the responses. I had no idea that Broadway and Sunrise Malls did the same thing! How long ago did these events take place?
It had to be sometime in the 1980's.
Montgomery Mall in Montgomery, NJ on US206, which is really a glorified strip mall, used to be the turn-around point for the 605.
They were thrown out some years ago. The bus now lets off passengers on the road and loops around a mile north. If you want to come back without crossing the road to catch the bus, you have to get on a northbound bus and ride around the "loop".
South of Pittsburgh, a muggar at a suburban mall (Century II ?) was found out to have taken a bus there. For a half a day, buses were banned from the mall.
As a person of color, I find this to be QUITE rediculous, and me personally, If I want to go to a certain Mall bad enough and the bus don't go DIRECTLY into the Mall. My ass is definately finding a way to cross a highway, walk over a bridge, etc, to get to the Mall and the store of My Choice. And if this is Bergen Mall's goal, Like the incident up north, They will swiftly loose business as Bergen County has a HIGH Spanish population. Also Bergen Mall isn't all of that in the first place, Bergen Mall is the equivelant of 125th Street Between 7th & Lenox Avenue, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Ex-Bergen Mall Kay Bee Toys Employee / TransiTALK
While you are young and able to cross a wide street to get to the mall of your choice, Trevor, what about the elderly and handicapped that rely on the public transit.
Guess they'll have to shop at home (telephone, internet, catalogue, etc) or go elsewhere...Not smart marketing by Simon.
Wonder if they start banning buses at their other malls, like Smithhaven out here in Suffolk County
Well like previously stated, Bergen Mall is barely occupied, I could go stunt bike riding through there on any given day! Garden State Plaza and Willowbrook Malls tend to spark everyones interest, Even during the holidays, Bergen Mall gets about as croweded as the Bx18!
Nuff Said!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
The part of the property that the NJ Transit Routes come on is not even really Simons/Bergen Mall Property! The Only Route That TRUELY comes onto the property is the Washington Heights Bound 171s!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK
I can back Trevor on this - I have gone into Bergen Mall on Christmas Eve, parked right up front, and not encountered lines at cashiers.
South of Pittsburgh, a muggar at a suburban mall (Century II ?) was found out to have taken a bus there. For a half a day, buses were banned from the mall.
A mugger at a suburban mall was found to have taken a car there. For half a day, cars were banned from the mall.
(Could you imagine?)
Oh, come on. Banning buses because a criminal rode one to get there? That's absolutely stupid.
At that rate, stop the subway in the middle of the tracks if a mugger rides it. Ban bicycles from the ghetto if a thug shoots someone while riding one. Throw the handicapped out of their wheelchairs just because one guy without working legs rolled up into a shoe store to swipe a box of Filas. Pull over every white Ford Bronco just because O.J. drove one. And cut both legs off all the innocent people in the bank should someone hold it up after walking there on foot.
See what I mean? A mode of transportation shold not be shunned just because one person used it the wrong way. What a stupid thing to do. Yeah, Bonnie and Clyde made Flxible famous, I'm sure. With that backwards thinking, it's a wonder the Ford V8 survived, because that was what powered THEIR actual getaway car back in the 1930s. Just think, if all people were like those mall think tanks, Mustangs and Crown Victorias would have four-cylinder engines and "Ah-OO-Ga" horns.
I swear, mall officials must be smoking crack around there. Ban their pipes. And their spoons. Sheeze.
-F.
I think we're on to something here - an easy way to put an end to drive-by shootings, DWI, grand theft auto... :)
Yeah...you've got it! That would provide great solutions to all of those dangers to society. After all, that sort of thing rarely happens on public transit. SEE? You stupid merchant pigs....buses are a solution, and NOT a problem. Take THAT, you mall muffbrains!
And for those of you on the anarchy side, just get faced at a bar, hop on a bus with a bunch of trigger-happy friends hanging out the windows, and for a real kick, take off in the bus while the driver is out for a smoke break. After all, we do have to appeal to both sides.
What a load of crap. NJT is providing business to Bergen if nothing else! Those ingrateful bastards. Don't they realize that the buses only pass through and let off/on passengers? At the very "worst", they may have timechecks there.
Bergen needs to either back off or suffer a boycott, one of which I am willing to lead. I say that we as transit supporters should petition against their evil ways. Although I am not a NJ resident, I think our our voices should be heard. Transit takes enough of a beating without being shunned by the communities it serves. Find me an address and let's get on the ball!
-F.
I say boycott all Simon malls! Simon also got rid of Flamers in the Manhattan mall. Simon is an overgrown conglomerate like Clear Channel is in the radio business.
Simon better not do this at all it's malls, just imagine the chaos if they kick LI Bus out of Roosevelt Field!
Bergen mall gears to low income shoppers anyway they are shooting themselves in the foot anyway. Bergen mall looks crappy anyway, most people go to GSP as it is.
If they kick the buses out of Bergen I hope that mall closes! And let 'em knock the mall down and put a new NJT bus depot there. That's what Selfish Simon deserves.
Yeah...in fact, I hope they put a bus factory there. Nothing like sweet revenge on Simon to see the old fallen empire cranking out new Orions like rabbits! Talk about a joyous M.O....Multiple Orions. LOL!
-F.
>>Simon also got rid of Flamers in the Manhattan mall.<<
Not only does Simon hate mass transit, they hate the best burgers this side of the country.
As long as they don't get rid of Arby's, I'll keep my gun down. :)
-F.
Better not speak to soon ,there is an Arby's in a Simon property;the food court at the Newport Center Mall in Jersey City(which in addition to buses running on its property,it has a streetcar station as well)
Good! All the more reason for me to visit. Thanks for the note!
-F.
Oh, and here's another thing that gets me; it's right along the lines of the whole Bergen mess and really hits home.
I was reading an article in City Magazine (a local Roanoke publication) about the revitalization of Downtown Roanoke. It tells of well-to-do locals restoring older storefront apartments (some of which are beautiful turn-of-the century original architecture) into lavish dwellings and have formed a committee known as the Downtown Living Association. The committee plans to initiate such things as neighborhood watch, fun events, and further support of downtown businesses and dining.
I was impressed with their efforts until I reached a paragraph about their complaints with Campbell Court, which is the Downtown center that houses both transit (Valley Metro) and Greyhound facilities. The committee wishes to move the bus station down the street, or out of Downtown completely, due to their inability to tolerate the sound of bus engines. They claim that "the buses are noisy" and make it hard to enjoy their time at home. At that point, I threw the magazine down and could not read any further.
What a bunch of nonsense! If you want to live downtown, it's part of the package. Personally, I'd LOVE to hear the roar of 6v92s and Series 50s outside my home. These people would never make it in NYC! Also, the last bus pulls out of Campbell Court at 8:15 PM, when most normal people are out anyway. What's more, Campbell Court is a restored original building from the early 1900s that would otherwise have sat to rot, not unlike the homes of these so-called "Downtown dwellers".
Let me know your thoughts, BusTalkers; mine are that these pansies should shut up and move back to suburbia and the country clubs where they belong.
-F.
My thoughts...
1. It's illogical to demand rent for 50 feet of sidewalk space that's used for a few seconds and then vacated, while motorists who park for hours are NOT charged rent.
2. The former Mid-Island Mall (now Broadway Mall) in Hicksville actually evicted the buses some years ago, claiming that the mall stop was merely a transfer point and not a destination. Once the buses were gone, quite a few stores had to close because their EMPLOYEES couldn't get to work!!
3. Remember that mall in (or just outside) Buffalo: The owners had actually included in their leases a provision that tour buses from Canada would be allowed on mall property but NEVER public buses. As a result of that policy, a girl was killed while trying to cross the road from the bus stop to her mall job.
That's terrible. The mall which lost stores really shot themselves in the foot by banning employee travel. And worst of all, it's absolutely HORRIBLE that we lost a human life because of some insensitive assholes who don't like buses on their parking lot.
These people should have been sued outright and held accountable as being directly linked to her demise. After all, they were.
[...it's absolutely HORRIBLE that we lost a human life because of some insensitive a--holes who don't like buses on their parking lot. These people should have been sued outright and held accountable as being directly linked to her demise. After all, they were.]
In the interest of playing catch-up: Flxible's comment was in reference to my earlier mention of a mall in the Buffalo area. The owners of the mall had promised, in its leases, to allow Canadian tour buses onto mall property while permanently banning local transit buses. As a result of that policy, a girl was kiled while trying to cross the road from the bus stop to her job in the mall.
IIRC, the girl's family DID sue both the mall owners and the Niagara Frontier Transit Authority. NFTA then produced eight YEARS worth of correspondence proving that it had continually tried to gain access to the mall entrance. The family then dropped its suit against NFTA, and NFTA filed a friend-of-the-court brief in suport of the family. The case was eventually settled out of court.
Now to editorialize: The mall owners weren't insensitive - they were as bigoted as the merchants who sought the no-public-buses provision.
In my opinion, those bigonted merchants should all burn in hell. Especially for the aforementioned incident. It's pure nonsense. And while Niagra Frontier was an easy target, it was not their fault.
-F.
2. The former Mid-Island Mall (now Broadway Mall) in Hicksville actually evicted the buses some years ago, claiming that the mall stop was merely a transfer point and not a destination. Once the buses were gone, quite a few stores had to close because their EMPLOYEES couldn't get to work!!
The same is true for Bergen Mall; NY1's piece featured several mall employees who will have no practical way of getting to work without the bus.
I'd like to know if the retailers in the mall are of the same opinion as Simon; I'd venture to guess no...
NJT I know schedules a lot of their "last run" buses to accomodate mall employees after the stores close.
I've been following this discussion with much interest, and can add my own cent on bus access for malls. The Stamford Town Centre has NONE. It doesn't even want pedestrians walking in- only car owners.
I say that because a few weeks ago, lacking anything else to do because of inclement weather, we took Metro North up to Stamford and walked six blocks through an absolutely deserted (on Sunday) downtown to the mall. I'd seen it driving past on I-95, so figured it would be nearby.
It seemed like the only way to walk in was to cross Tresser Boulevard, walk down a long driveway with no sidewalk, past several truck tunnels and into a side entrance to Filene's. Only after passing through the whole store and going up an escalator did we find the mall proper.
The mall itself was beautiful, with a nice central atrium with large carpeted stairs, many glass elevators and fountains, like malls you see on most TV shows filmed in southern California. There were at least nine levels of parking; when the sun came out, we went up top to check out the view and see if we could see the Sound. The parking was all outdoors, and the meters were in effect on a Sunday!
On exiting, I asked a security guard if there was any easier way out of the mall and back to the station. He said there was only the long, hazardous way we came in through Filene's. We agreed that the mall seems built only to accomodate motorists to the exclusion of pedestrians or bus passengers.
Another hint of the 'upscale' ambience was that the food court had no central tables where people could sit all day on a cup of coffee. Some eateries had tables on their premises; otherwise if you wanted to eat you'd have to sit on the carpeted stairs.
However, this mall seemed much more vibrant than the Gallery at White Plains, where we went the following weekend. There were more boarded-up plywood sheets than stores.
The Westchester in White Plains is much nicer and only about 5 blocks from the MNRR train station. Pedestrian access there is MUCH better.
That is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard of in my life. What kind of idiot builds a mall with non-existant pedestrian access? I can't believe the City of Stamford allowed the developers to pull such an idiotic stunt.
For the first time. I got a chance to ride Q79. Q79 needs 3 Buses for it's weekday run. Today on Q79. Was. #9288,#9294,and #4914. I got on 2 out of 3 on Q79. #9288 and #9294 are the one's that I got on. Q79 is a FAST Route. And not many people ride Q79. I like the Q79 verry well and I may ride Q79 again one day.
Q79 Nova RTS#9288
Q79 Nova RTS#9294
Q79 Nova RTS#4914
The line we all hope to retire on :-)
Saw a soft-seater on the Q79 in Little Neck this afternoon.
Saw 9290 on the Q46, 9289 Q75 and 9266 on the Q17. Didn't get a coach today-had 8388 8382 4900 on Q46 and 4349 Q17. Very fast bus despite that the a/c was kicking. Was very impressed with it despite that she'll be on her way out shortly.
Q17#4349Gary
Q46#4900Gary
It's got working A/C, send it over to LI Bus, over half the buses we have at LIB have no A/C! :-0
The Q79 (former known as the Q12A) was always a fast, no name, nobody bus route. That's why it has soft express seats. No schools are on that route, so they tend to bend the rules a little.
Ray Clendenin
Administrator Assistant
www.transitalk.com
I remember riding the Q79 a few years ago and had a soft seat RTS, but I think the seats were vinyl.
Last Thursday morning I rode the northbound M98 (terminating at the George Washington Bridge) to 179th and Broadway, which I thought was its last stop. (All the other passengers got off, too.) A few minutes later, while wandering through the GWBBS, I saw an NYCT bus go by on the commuter level.
That afternoon, I was waiting for the southbound M98 at its first stop by the Fort Tryon Park traffic circle. A few minutes after its scheduled departure time of 4:00, a northbound M98 dumped its passengers. I expected it to swing around the circle and begin its southbound run, since it already was late (not that I minded waiting, since it was a beautiful day and I wasn't in a great hurry), but instead it continued into the park itself, as if it were an M4. A few minutes later it emerged from the park and picked up its passengers. Then, at 179th Street, it entered the GWBBS before continuing across 178th.
This afternoon, I rode the M98 from 86th to 181st. I expected to get another tour of the GWBBS but instead we simply turned right from 179th onto Ft. Washington.
Questions:
Many years ago, shortly after the M98 was introduced, I recall reading a notice that, in the interest of time, it would no longer be stopping in the GWBBS itself. I was a bit surprised on Thursday to see the bus in the station. But then, today, it didn't enter the station. What's going on? Does the M98 go into the terminal on southbound runs only? Why the asymmetry?
And why did Thursday afternoon's bus run into the park? Did the driver just want to have a nice view during his break? (I've seen M4's wedged into the parking area across from the Cloisters, presumably for the same reason.)
According to my knowledge, the M98 is a limited bus. It has ALWAYS gone into the Cloisters (park). Back in 1988 the M98 was local then it became limited or part-time service. The full service was always to the Cloisters but they have shorten the route to the GWBBS. I rode the M98 back in 1991, the bus was limited and the last stop was at the Cloisters Museum. As I said, they had shorten the route to the GWBBS. Now, I have seen pictures of the M98 in the GWBBS and I actually saw the bus go into the station. It does that to make a fast connection with riders from NJTransit. I hope this helps.
Ray Clendenin
www.transitalk.com
The last stop on M98 is W 193 St and Fort Washington Ave. BUT it loops around at The Cloisters Museum interms to do Southbound service. And the bad part is. If you need to go to thr Cloisters Museum. You must transfer to a M4 bus at W 193 St to get there. And is there any plans to restore M98 service back to The Cloisters Museum?
It should go to the Cloisters. If not, then that is it for the M98. I'm sorry that I could not help you.
Ray Clendenin
Administrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
The map agrees with your assessment: the M98 terminates at the traffic circle by the A train station. (Is that 193rd Street? No such street intersects Ft. Washington. The A train station is called 190th Street-Overlook Terrace, but both of those are a few blocks south of either station entrance. The sign on the bus I rode did call it 193rd Street.)
There's no reason for it to loop through the park; the traffic circle can easily take care of that.
Have you tried to take the M98 all the way to the Cloisters? I'm sure some drivers might be willing to take you there, but they'd probably be breaking a rule in the process. In any case, it's a most pleasant walk. (I did that walk a few days after the blizzard of 1996. I have pictures of two friends sitting on the top of a park bench which was just poking out. Somebody went by us on skis. This was after the person who answered the phone at the museum told me the park paths were clear!)
No it doesn't. When I took the M98, it circled around in the traffic circle.
Maybe, depending on how much time it has until it's SB run, the driver will go through the Cloisters. If there's not a lot of time, then he/she will use the turnaround.
On Thursday, when my bus entered the park to turn around, it was already a few minutes past 4. The southbound bus, according to both the schedule posted at the stop and the schedule I printed from the MTA web page, had a bus scheduled to arrive at the first stop at 4:00 on the nose (and the next one not until 4:30). The bus was already behind schedule. (Again, I'm not complaining -- this time! -- that the bus was late. The weather was beautiful and I find that neighborhood a most enjoyable one to kill time in. A bench would have been nice, but I'll live.)
[The last stop on M98 is W 193 St and Fort Washington Ave.]
Yes, the destination sign reads "193 ST" for the M98 as well as the M4 ouside of the Cloisters* operating hours. However, 193rd Street doesn*t actually exist at that point. The northbound drop-off is on Fort Washington Avenue at the near side of Margaret Corbin Circle; from there, the bus U-turns through the circle to the southbound pick-up stop on Fort Washington Avenue at the far side of Cabrini Blvd (which is a north-south street but bends to the east and intersects Fort Wash at the circle).
-----
[BUT it loops around at the Cloisters Museum interms (sic) to do Southbound service.]
The bus shouldn*t need to travel a half-mile up Margaret Corbin Drive and a half-mile back just to turn around; there*s plenty of room for a U-turn at Margaret Corbin Circle. (Yes, Margaret got both a Circle and a Drive.)
BTW, what is "interms"?
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[And is (are) there any plans to restore M98 service back to The Cloisters Museum?]
Probably not, on account of the M98 never served the Cloisters. Actually, City Councilmember Stanley Michels used to create a rumor every few years that Transit was planning to kill the M98. He knew there was never any such plan, but it made good campaign material and kept getting him re-elected.
Hmmm, I just had a thought for an innovative routing: loop from the GWBBS via the Henry Hudson Parkway to the Cloisters and back down Ft. Washington back to the GWBBS. In the interest of time, I'm tempted to have the bus run straight from the Harlem River Drive via the Trans-Manhattan Expressway to the Henry Hudson Parkway, giving access to those stops only after looping up to the Cloisters, but that seems to be the most popular part of the route.
Nah, wouldn't work. The line has very asymmetrical service. Oh well.
Speaking of Cabrini, stand on the sidewalk just off the circle and look down into the park. What is that thing, and is it accessible to the public? It's even more noticeable to traffic passing it on the Henry Hudson Parkway (aka Riverside Drive) -- just after said traffic has passed a mysterious white columned thing on the other side of the road (I'd love to know what that is, too -- I couldn't see it from Cabrini, but I'm sure it's quite visible in the winter when the thick tree cover is gone).
I remember when the M98 was introduced. I thought it was a limited from day one.
And what's up with some buses pulling into the GWBBS and others not? The map doesn't show any going inside.
What is the turnaround --is it the Cloisters (M4) or is at 193 St Loop Traffic Circle North of 193 St.
I have not been up there in a long time..the postings in Bus Talk keep jumping from one Terminal or the other
Please confirm
Thanks
Steve
I have seen most of the M98 buses take the turn around at the Cloisters with the M4!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
[What is the turnaround - is it the Cloisters (M4) or is it the 193 St Loop Traffic Circle north of 193 St?]
Note that 193rd Street does not actually exist at Fort Washington Avenue. Cabrini Blvd. bends eastward and intersects Fort Washington where 193rd would be.
That said, the M98 is supposed to operate as follows:
Northbound: Last drop-off on Fort Washington at near side of Margaret Corbin Circle.
Turnaround: U-turn through Margaret Corbin Circle.
Southbound: First pick-up on Fort Washington at far side of Cabrini Blvd.
ONLY the M4 is supposed to continue up Margaret Corbin Drive (yes, Margaret got a Circle and a Drive) to the Cloisters, with an intermediate stop at the Maple Leaf Cafe.
-----
I*m wondering why the M98 would need to continue up to the Cloisters when there*s plenty of room to make the U-turn at the circle -- unless the M4s get delayed (very possible) and the dispatcher instructs the M98s to go the extra half-mile to "rescue" people who would otherwise be stranded.
As I've said, I saw one bus go into the park on Thursday and another bus yesterday go through the circle.
The last official stop is right by the A train, in any case.
As for rescuing waiting passengers at the Cloisters, on Thursday an M4 arrived at the circle with the M98 -- and the same M4 arrived back at the circle with the M98 on the southbound trip.
I haven't ridden the M98 regularly since I was laid off in mid-April, but I can tell you that it only enters the GWBBS on southbound trips. Northbound trips either terminate ouside the GWBSS or make the right from 179 Street onto Fort Washington Avenue.
One of my pet projects as a regular M98 rider was my own anatomically correct bootleg of the official M98 schedule translated into Spanish for the local population here in Washington/Hudson Heights. As part of that labor of love, I also have this handy text version of the schedule, including Origin Times, Destination times, and Run numbers, for your enjoyment. It was formatted for my PDA, so I apologize for it being a little cramped, and I only list the start and end times because I only travelled between 187 Street and 33/34 St. Asterisks denote trips that begin or end at the GWBBS.
M98 Southbound
LV 193-->AR E34 RUN
-6:02a----7:06a 001
-6:14a----7:18a 002
-6:26a----7:31a 003
-6:38a----7:44a 004
-6:50a----7:58a 005
-6:57a----8:05a 006
-7:02a----8:13a 007
-7:08a----8:21a 008
-7:13a----8:26a 009
-7:19a----8:32a 010
-7:24a----8:39a X01
-7:30a----8:45a 011
-7:36a----8:51a 012
-7:42a----8:57a 013
-7:50a----9:06a 014
-7:58a----9:11a 015
*8:15a----9:18a 002
-8:14a----9:26a 001
*8:31a----9:32a 003
*8:41a----9:42a 004
-8:44a----9:54a 005
*9:05a---10:06a 008
-9:08a---10:18a 006
-9:29a---10:30a 007
-9:32a---10:42a 010
THEN NO SERVICE UNTIL
-4:00p----5:08p 005
-4:30p----5:38p 011
-5:00p----6:08p 012
-5:30p----6:38p 013
-6:00p----7:08p X02
*LV GWB Bus Station
M98 Northbound
LV E33-->AR 193 RUN
-7:11a----8:00a 001
-7:26a---*8:10a 002
-7:38a---*8:22a 003
-7:50a---*8:34a 004
-8:20a---*9:04a 007
-8:40a---*9:24a 009
-9:10a---*9:54a 013
-9:40a--*10:24a 001
-10:10a-*10:54a 008
-10:40a-*11:24a 007
THEN NO SERVICE UNTIL
-3:45p----4:42p 012
-3:57p----4:54p 009
-4:09p----5:06p 010
-4:19p----5:16p 013
-4:27p----5:24p 001
-4:34p----5:31p 014
-4:42p----5:39p 002
-4:49p----5:46p X02
-4:57p----5:54p 003
-5:04p----6:01p 015
-5:12p----6:09p 004
-5:19p----6:16p 005
-5:27p----6:24p 006
-5:34p----6:31p 007
-5:42p----6:39p 008
-5:52p----6:49p 011
-6:02p----6:53p 009
-6:12p----7:01p 010
-6:22p----7:13p 012
-6:37p----7:30p 014
-6:52p----7:45p 013
-7:07p----8:00p 015
-7:22p----8:15p X02
*AR GWB Bus Station
--Mike
On the Queens Bus Map, the Q5/85 go into Nassau County,and make stops there. Isn't there some sort of regulation (union or not) that prohibits NYCT buses from picking up passengers in another county other than the 5 boroughs? Also, what is over there that requires those buses to go there?
Green Acres Mall is there. They loop around it. I'm sure whatever regs there are are bent since they are only looping and not actually transporting from a point in nassau to another point in Nassau.
Then what about the Q36 picking up eastbound from 233rd? to 257th St.Technically that is Bellerose,Nassau Cty ;not Bellrose,Queens.
People were complaining about walking to the Queens/Nassau border. Plus Jamaica Av becomes Jericho Tpke around the Cross Island Pkwy and then turns back into Jamaica Av. The city line goes in and out of Queens often around that area. For example, the Q113 to Far Rockaway. The Q113 goes down Rockaway Tpke into Nassau County and then ends in Far Rockaway via Beach Channel Drive.
LI Bus/MSBA (and/or its predecessor, Bee Line) used to provide direct bus service from Jamaica, along Merrick Road to the Green Acres Mall many years back, via what was then the N5 route. The Nassau County portion of the N5 route is now the southern part of the N1. Sometime after N5 service stopped, NYCTA started running the Q5 to Green Acres to meet a specific need for direct service from Queens/Merrick Road. I think the Q85 service was added later, after great success with the Q5 service.
[...the Q5/85 go into Nassau County and make stops there. Isn't there some regulation (union or not) that prohibits NYCT buses from picking up passengers in another county other than the 5 boroughs?]
Okay, let me say this AGAIN, for about the umpteenth time: BOTH MTA New York City Transit and MTA Long Island Bus are operating agencies of (now pay attention - this is important) the Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the STATE of New York. That's right - NYCT was created as a public authority by STATE law (in 1953) and was placed under MTA jurisdiction by STATE law (in 1968).
In short, both NYCT and LIB are authorized by the MTA's enabling legislation to operate on ANY bus-capable street ANYWHERE within the 12-county MTA district. In theory, NYCT could start a route tomorrow from Greenport to Port Jervis via Brooklyn and Brewster. In practice, and as a courtesy, NYCT consults with neighboring jurisdictions and transit providers before advancing any proposed extension.
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In addition to the Q5 and Q85 to Green Acres Mall, there are the following border-crossings:
Q36: eastbound on Jerich Turnpike (center line of street is the border);
Q46: both directions on Lakeville Road to/from Long Island Jewish Medical Center;
Bx7, Bx10: U-turn on Riverdale Avenue, one block north of 263rd Street and about 100 feet into Yonkers;
Bx16: Mundy Lane branch originates at Sandford Blvd & South 11th Avenue in Mount Vernon.
The same can be said said with the NYCDOT:
i:e QSC QM1A along Lakeville to GCP/NSP service road to North Shore Towers.
JBL Q113 along Rockaway Tpke in 5 Towns to get to Far Rockawy.
LL-Exp BXM4A to Yonkers
QM1A#952 Steve
Q113 #608 Steve
BXM4A #3102 Steve
Well LI Bus probably doesn't know. Last (sticky) Saturday the N21 bus (180)had no A/C. Today my 90 minute ride on a packed N21 this afternoon had no A/C. Nothin like the smell of snack bags, chocolate bar wrappers left on the floor and the heat. Oh yeah, and the windows were locked.
Going back from Flushing, buses were late, one man yelled at the driver, they got into an argument. Fortunately she gave him the # to complain.
Saw 159,323,630 without A/C. In fact most of the CNG's appeared to have no A/C (all windows open) while I saw just one diesel without A/C (lucky that was mine).
LI Bus cannot keep it's buses in shape. They can't stay on time (there's not enough buses for the high PM Flushing bound loads).
As for why the A/C wasn't on, who knows. All the QSC and NYCT buses I saw in Flushing had A/C. Three ideas:
1)A/C uses more fuel, cash strapped LI Bus can't afford the extra fuel required to run with A/C
2)The buses breakdown with the A/C on
3)LI Bus is operated by Triboro or Green Lines, not the MTA
You left the out the smell of migrant workers.
Did this board go down or something?
I was writing a message about the Bergen mall bus story I saw on channel 5 it was totally unresponsive./ Now all the messages are gone.
Well where I left off.
I think Simon shouldn't have the right to kick buses out the Bergen Mall. Simon holdings is known to be cruel in the past.
If I were NJT I'd let the buses roll whether the mall likes it or not. Let 'em call the cops, I'm sure they have better things to do.
Of course Simon has the right to ban buses from its property. (Many malls already ban trucks from their main parking lots.)
And NJTransit has the right to tell Simon to get lost and to bring its passengers to competing malls. Bus stops are good for business.
Do they have a right to ban passenger bsues, but not certain cars ? I don't think so. In any case, if NJT loses, they should paste billboards onto the side of their buses up there urging a boycott of that mall.
I just hope Simon doesn't start doing this at it's other malls. I can't imagine what would happen if Simon evicted LI Bus from the Roosevelt Field property. Probably a lawsuit.
Nah...LI would buy back their Gilligs and just leave them there at the parking lot in order to piss Simon off. :)
-F.
Does anyone have a full listing of Reading s for the 3 Divisions
Thank you
Steve
What are you referring to? Do you mean the 3 divisions of CT Transit bus service? (Hartford, New Haven and Stamford.) I believe their website is www.cttransit.com. Also, do you mean routing in the following fashion?
"P" New Britain (via Newington)
"E" Farmington Avenue
"M" Middletown
"K" Part Street
I am looking for the Destination Readings for the 3 Divisions.
Hartford/New Britain
Stamford
New Haven
example
B7 Kings Hwy
Flatlands Av
The routings I have,from the Route Notes of CT Transit -updated to 2001.
also
Check my CT Transit Pages and Westchester Cty
http://community.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT/CTTRANSIT
or
Http://community.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT/WESTCHESTERAND
(Putnam Cty included)
do me a favour--add these to your links pages,,whomever has Links on their pages
Thanks
Steve
check out
http://community.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT/CTTRANSIT
or
WESTCHESTERAND
OR
NJHUDSONANDESSEX
1--CT Transit ----all 3 Divisions
2- Westchester and Putnam Counties
3---NJ Hudson and Essex Counties Bus Ops and more
Tried the link. Page could not be found or displayed. Something wqrong with the server right now. Try again another time.
Seems okay now. WebTV has major issues and limitations. Try clicking on this Index of Smokiecat for an index of avaliable bus related pages.
Keep in mind,,route descriptions are available for any ONE route of your choice
Yesterday for the second time I saw 1826 back in service for Hudson Pier deopt along with an interesting companion, 3964. I had the honor to ride 3964 this morning on the M14D and I must say that this converted suburban bus rides very nice. She is not bad on take off either. Any other resurections we should know about? I will keep you guys posted from the L.E.S (Lower East Side) for more details.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
www.transitworld.org
I just got 3964 on the M16... great ride, and a couple of overheard comments about the upholstered seats: "They must be upgrading; it's about time!" :).
I hopeing to get eather #1826 or #3964 on M14 this saturday. I use that route to get to my Grandmas House at 6 St and Ave D from the Subway. And BTW. Are you staying near by 6 St and Ave D?
M14 GM RTS#1826
M14 GM RTS#3964
Yeap!
That is my base of operations! LOLOL.
Houston Street & Baruch Pl.
Peace
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
OK.
Both 1826 and 3964 are former QV Buses. So what could I say? Also, another 1982 RTS Suburban Coach is back in the running. Now there are 5: 1751 1767 1773 1826 and 1852.
3964 I think is like 3967's interior. 3966 is in UP-same way?!
Haven't seen these buses since their departure from QV.
Q32#1826Gary
M14#3964Gary
Saw 1826 on the M6. Looked good. Couldn't tell if the soft seats were still there. Looked like fresh coat of paint too. 3893 soft seater in service today on M103.
According to a reliable source, 1826 was sitting in Crosstown recently. That probably explains the fresh coat of paint.Good to hear it's back on the road.
thats typical. they paint the 19 year old bus will run it a few weeks then scrap it. nyct must have to get rid of paint.
i saw #1826 on 6/5/01 on the M6 route on Broadway. Looks like it is still in good shape. Keep on rollin.
She's home y'all. She was on the M6 before she was sent to storage. I had a feeling they wouldn't keep her in there, and here she is back on the streets.
Now, if they'll only upgrade PA1767, we'll be in business.
...followed by 1740 and 1742...and the 13 RTS buses in Collge Point (1747, and 2679 among them)
flx7595
Good news everyone; the long-awaited initial rolling model of the Flxible New Look bus has been completed for a customer. The bus is a 1973 model in NYCTA colors and will be shipped to its new owner this week; hopefully pics will be up ASAP. It came out great and I hope to do another soon, should I be able to find more.
While I am sold out of 1:100 scale versions at the moment, I do have 1:200 scale Flx New Look models available and may develop a rolling version of those as well. I'll keep everyone posted!
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
fred-
what size of 1:200 scale and what is the update on my 30 foot bus?
The 1:200 scale Flx New Look is about 2" long, and I plan to make a rolling version soon.
Simon, as far as your 30' Flx, still no receipt of the RTS package. Please e-mail me regarding this so we can talk it over.
-F.
Today while riding the X15 out of the Battery Tunnel, saw PA4199 turning onto West Street going North. The left rear window had graffitti on it on the outside. Also, it appeared to be a MTA driver behind the wheel.
What gives with those windows? There are no more sliding windows, but single panels. But the panels aren't curved; they are flat and there is an indent like at the back doors with these windows.
Please respond with any info about where it was going and also about the bus itself.
It's formerly PA1648, owned by Picture Cars, Inc., who provides vehicles for television and movies. The flat windows are to reduce glare.
I saw it a few weeks ago (thread here), and Hart Bus saw it on Law & Order (this thread).
rest assured it was not an mta driver behind the wheel. i believe this bus may be seen during the opening credits of sex and the city.
This bus was in it's original numbers in the movie Conspiracy Theory. It was bus 1648. Also, this bus picked up not on Broadway, but the street to the east, where there is not a bus running on this street. It was right by Battery Place.
Also, I had the privilege of riding on this bus back when it was in service out of Castleton Depot. I had 1648 on the S54.
4199 was also in the movie Fight Club. You could hear the 6v92TA engine.
Also the tip off that this isn't a NYCT bus presently in service is that none of the 4100's have the PA prefix.
Saw 1852 this morning at Springfield & Horace Harding on the X32. Is it used regularly?
1852 is usually on the Q75 or Q79. BUT ON X32?! Strange. Figure this 1 out 9286 was on the Q75. 9291 is property of Jamaica as I saw her on the Q17 today. 1 more note: 113 was on the Q74.
Q17#9291Gary
Q74#113Gary
And to conclude the strange Queens sightings for the day; 9293 was spotted at Horace Harding and Springfield on the Q30. Looks like BusMan9293 is going to have to come to Queens Village to see his favorite bus.
On 6/5/01, 9291 was on the X63. Meanwhile, 9298 was observed navigating traffic on the X29 near Bowling Green in Manhattan. Also, brand new MCI 2201 was seen on the X28 (no, it does NOT have 4 roof vents like its 1981 RTS namesake).
Funny how we are into another generation of 2200s while 1981 RTS 2270 is still alive and well at YUK. In 1985 and 1986 the TA went out of their way to renumber the 1969 Flxibles (4000-4202, 4600-4727) and the 1970 fishbowls (4300-4499) as new RTS's came in. I suppose they figure that 2270 won't last until another order of MCI's. However with delays in the deliveries of new local buses, bus 2270 could be retired with a different number. Something to ponder.
Mark
I believe I know about the 1970 Fishbowl Renumbering - but what was the Flxible renumbering?
flx7595
...1751 and 3818, side by side in Downtown Flushing. Lucky kids ;)
I bet 1767 and 1773 do the honors tomorrow.
Maybe Hudson is getting the old storage buses. I do not remember if this one was in storage but I saw 3485 in service on M22 this morning. Interesting in that 3485 had new paint job but had it's original old font on the panel in the back for the bus number. I am looking to ride 1826 sometime.
On or about 2/1/01, OA swapped about 200 buses within the Manhattan Division. The oldies went from M'ville to Hudson.
today i saw that bus it has a white trem around the windows
with a V.O.H 2001 sign next to the door.it look like the new flyer.
it sound muck more quieter and faster.
The black trim around the windows will be painted white as part of the overhaul process. 5033 and 5068 were among the first SEPTA NABIs to go through the VOH process.
that means that the overhaul process has long
ways to be complete
Yup. At least two, maybe three years, depending on how efficiently the workers at Wyoming shops complete the NABI overhaul process.
while it took the neoplans ahd etbs five years to overhaul.after the
nabi what's next the neoplan artics.
Most likely. I think the overhaul process for the artics will start around 2005 - 6 years after they arrived.
septa just got the artics.I guess that means that SEPTA dont have good maintains.
They don't have great maintainance. Besides, maybe you should blame the people at the depots for not closing the doors of the Neoplans properly. I mean, it's not the same people doing everything, you know.
And how old are these buses? Five, six?
1996-1997
they suck! Getting an overhaul already!
Septa maintain there buses very poor.
As bad as the NABIs are, SEPTA generally overhauls it's vehicles every 4 years, so the NABI overhauls are actually right on schedule.
What do they generally do during overhauls?
While for the neoplans they repaint the frames and overhaul
the engine and transmission.and they also put on a new muffler system
kit for the emissions genarated dy the engine by doing so it makes the buses sound louder and faster,and they sometime put on new stickers on the interior.
For the nabis it appears that they put a ddec system in the engine to make it generate less emissions.and repainted every ware
that there is black.And also repaired the cracks on the bus.
When SEPTA overhauled the 3xxx neoplans a few years ago, some of the buses got larger turn signals on their sides and circular tailights on their backs, which were originally square. But some of the buses did not get any new1 lights. Does anyone know why some buses got the new lights and some did not? Could it have been a difference between Berridge and Wyoming shops?
Also, some overhauled neoplans also received a small sticker on their engine covers saying "This bus powered by clean diesel technology". What does that mean about the buses? Did they get any new engine parts?
it depends when the bus is overhaul if it was over 1999 and on they receive new lights.
"This bus powered by clean diesel
technology"means that they got a new (CEM II) catalytic muffler kit.to lower emissions.And possible a turbocharger.
[Could it have been a difference between Berridge and Wyoming
shops?]
Nope. Berridge is the official name for what used to be known as Wyoming Shops, which are located at 3 St & Wyoming Av in North Philadelphia.
do any know what the transmission for the eldorado is?
it's an Allison, but I don't know the model number.
i al readyknow that it is.but i can't dicide whether it a mt-643 or b-300R
With Septa's budget the way it is, they probably went with the mt-643, which is the standard transmission for the eldorado transmark. the b-300's are listed as "also available" which usually means that they cost more.
while the mt-643 have four gears.the transmission in the eldorado have 5 gears.
It's most likely a B300R.
While i been thinking it the b-300r.because the b series
end and begin gears at every 10mph all the way up to 50mph.
Surprisingly, they are 4-5 years old. I still remember the first time I saw one at the Victory Ave Depot back in '97. Of course, at that time I had thought it was the back of an artic, but oh well. Such happy moments...they wesre much cooler back then than they are now. Even the trail passes advertised them as SEPTA's new "talking bus"
fist time i thought it was a new neoplan until i look at the plate
that sad Ikurus.
that was the same rt. i saw neoplan artic.s on it catch me by surprise
it look like a old neoplan.
is the front white too, or did they keep it black. From a distance, they sorta do look like Neoplans, although I don't have 20/20 vision anyway.
yes
NOOOOOOOOOO...... and I used to respect SEPTA for their buses! Now the NABIs are going to look awful!
have yet seen nabi 5033 yet.they look better than before.
Ugh, no! and I hope I never see one! Ikarus/NABI buses NEED the black trim to look decent, especially with SEPTA's paint scheme, which is basically all white anyway. When I first saw the NABIs back when they first came out, I though, "Wow, those buses look great" (well, maybe not, but the paint scheme was banging). However, every other bus was all white, but that's okay. There is too much wall space on the Ikarus buses so that it can be all white. That's like a flxible that's all white, or worse, an RTS. It's just wrong, I tell you, WRONG!
My question is that when The Ikaruses get overhauled, is SEPTA replacing the red (?) carpeting that is on the rear bulkhead with the blue found on The Neoplan artics?
the nani's are geting overhaul from now
to 2003.
And no the carpet will not be replace.
If you go through the Cloisters, about one minute in there is a small road that goes off to the right. That road is where the M98 terminates during rush-hours. I spkoe to my friend at the Manhattanville Depot who use to operate the M98 before Michael J. Quill took over the route. He told me that today the M98 sits at that road and makes the turn around in the park. He did and he would still do it IF the M98 went back to Manhattanville. That's why the M98 goes into the Cloisters park and sits right behing the M4 in front of the Cloisters Museum. It has been like this since 1988 according to the driver. Now, it may stop at that circle probably because of less buses on that route, otherwise it is suppose to go into the Cloister park. Again, follow the M4 bus and you will see a little street off to the right. The street is like a rest stop ofn a highway (you go off and you come back on). That is where the M98 according to the Manhattan Bus Map terminates at. Also, that is where the bus operator and several operators told me at the Manhattanville and Michael J. Quill Depots.
I've seen M4's in that pulloff area, too. They don't fit very well. I'd be surprised to learn tha tthis is part of the official route.
But both the signs on the buses and the bus maps claim the M98 does not run in revenue service into the park. Either the signs and bus maps are wrong -- in which case they should be corrected now -- or the buses are wasting everyone's time by not turning around in the traffic circle.
They draw in the M79 around the Boat Basin on the west side as being part of the route all though in all technicality, you can't ride around there. It also marks the terminal on the west side of Riverside Drive. The M98 should turn around in the traffic circle. Plenty of room and there is no need to go in the park unless the M4 is really backed up. Even then, I don't know how many M4 riders would rather take the M98 (other than me, I LOVE that run!).
Most loops are shown on the map. M86 riders are kicked off at 87th and West End and aren't (generally) allowed to ride around to 86th and Broadway, but that's on the map, too.
The M98 is a lot of fun -- I'm hooked. And, at times, the M98 to St. Nicholas and the 1/9 back down is probably faster than some of the crosstown routes!
The X27,28 & 29 buses come from Ulmer Park. The 27 & 28 uses MCIs, but the 29 still runs the RTS. When will the 29 get the MCIs too????
in the summer as per a previous post. however ridership does not justify it. also there is a certain bus driver who will not fit on an mci. this is also the case at castleton depot.
I was on an x25 one evening and I wa talking to the bus operator about it. While he was explaining the x25/27 thing, he mentioned that the placement of MCi's on the x27 and x28 would displace runs on the x29. Therefore, he said, the x29 with less runs than a year ago will not receive any MCI buses any time soon because of the loss of runs on that line.
Well, that was six months ago. The situation may be different now, but until next time...
CWalNYC
MTA_x29_9340
The X-29 route does NOT have fewer runs than it had a year ago. I am not sure what is meant by MCIs on the X-27 and X-28 routes "displacing" runs on the X-29 route.
In any event, there is a finite number of MCIs available for X-27 and X-28 service. After accounting for spares, there are not enough MCIs available to extend MCI service to the X-29 route, at least in the morning. Since the X-29 route is, by far, the weakest performer of the three Brooklyn express routes (not counting the X-25, which doesn't exist as a separate route, and granting that the X-29 is stronger than it once was), NYCT would not get its biggest "bang for the buck" by assigning MCIs to it while leaving standard-size coaches on the X-27 and/or X-28 routes.
In the afternoon, the situation is different. Riding in the PM rush is much lower on all three Brooklyn routes than it is in the AM rush, so less express service is provided (which is why the buses look just as crowded as in the morning -- there aren't as many of them). MCIs are available in the afternoon, so they will be used on the X-29, although the route will continue to be scheduled under standard-size coach guidelines (for the time being, at least). One standard-size coach will continue to be used in the afternoon. That bus will be parked at Michael Quill Depot after its morning trip, and since what goes up must come down, the same Operator will bring that bus back in the afternoon.
David
nyct has informed ny1 news it will begin this service sometime this summer. of course they have yet to notify their own employees. as of today a summer pick is posted to begin 7/1/01 and these runs are not on the schedule.
If the runs for the x21/22 are not posted for the summer pick beginning July 1st, then you can bet that Staten Islanders will not see this service till the very end of the summer or sometime in the fall.
Hey, you are the one with the MTA NYCT destination signs! Can you fix your pages. I can not get the eliminated sign page. It just says, "Yahoo.........can not fin page."
Ray Clendenin
www.transitalk.com
At 12:45 AM. I saw NY1 and there was talking about the 4 New South Shore Routes. 2 of them are going to run by MTA witch it's called X21/X22. The other 2 are going to run by a Prvitie Complany witch the name is not declared yet of who's running the other 2 Lines. And the Prvitie Lines would take Metrocards. And NY1 say's it be running this summer. BUT idk what date those 4 New Lines would run. BUT eather Atlantic Express or Academy would take the 2 other South Shore Routes.
All I know is that the two routes (X21 and X22) are going to be express from Tottenville to Manhattan.
Ray Clendenin
www.transitalk.com
After recieving a packet on the NovaBUS RTS Super Suburban from Nova, I went over the spec. THIS BUS IS A SCALED DOWN VERSION OF A MCI CRUISER IN EVERY RESPECT minus the lavatory.
You can order a sound system with 5 TV monitors, CD Player, Individual headphone jacks at every seat post. Christ, If I want a Fleet today of my own...It would Consist of:
Several Rebuilt Flxible METRO
MCI D Series Cruisers
and NovaBUS RTS Super Suburban.
The RTS Super Suburban is starting to grow my likings towards the RTS!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Don't count out the restroom, either. I've seen fishbowl subs with aftermarket lavs in the past, and we all know NJT refitted some MC9Bs with lavs as well.
The only question is, once you load an RTS-SS to the gills with those options, how much money did you really save over the comparably equipped MCI D-series? The RTS-SS is fine as an upgraded commuter vehicle, but for longer hauls, I'd rather have the motorcoach version of the Cummins ISM or a Detroit 60 shifting through an Allison B500, and the extra brakes from the tag axle. You also get the benefit of the flat floor with no platforms or wheelwells on the MCI.
Trevor, did the brochure show the SuperSub with rear AC or roof AC? Toof AC just looks too bizarre on the round RTS roofline, compared to the flat Flxible roof.
"Toof AC"... hmmm... maybe I should market that. Fat typing fingers today.
It showed the WFD Version with A Roof Mounted HVAC and the the NFD with the out it!
Trevor
Hey Trevor,is this bus on there web site? I'd love to see it. i also would like to see the Orion 7 bus. Dyou have it on your web site? KAME'
It's listed on the Nova website as the "RTS Express". There's a pdf file with a few pictures of the WFD coach with the flame paint job and roof AC.
If you have Acrobat loaded om your PC, click here--> RTS Express pdf file
You can see a pic of the Orion VII no problem. I believe the website is www.newflyer.com. :)
-F.
or any site that has a picture of a nf c40lf.
Yeah...you've got the picture. It's a New Flyer copy thick and through. People chide the Flxible New Look as being a copy of the Fishbowl, but at least they designed the Flx with unique styling cues that made it unique and gave it a look all its own.
-F.
Oh good....so it's balanced. The good-looking version has a normal unit, while the ugly version gets the tacky one. I'd have done it the same way.
-F.
I don't really see how it's bad. SEPTA's Neoplans have them, so they look normal to me. Besides, they don't really look bad with them.
How did you request the packet on the Nova RTS Super Suburban? Did you E-Mail Nova for it? Or call up Nova for it?
Is a"packet" a large glossy brochure that anybody can order ?
Well I get a new packet sent to me when ever new packets come out becuase I'm a member on the Nova Network! BUT I think you can call and have one sent to you, but if you are a kid, you may have a hard time, In other words put some bass in your voice and sound professional!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I've been getting manufacturer literature since 1973 when I was 9 years old. GMC NEVER turned me down. Neither did Flxible. The others were another story. They're very responsive when they're beand new to the market. But established manufacturers get very skittish about giving John Q Public information on vehicles they aren't personally buying, just riding. MCI is pretty good about sending info, although it's not as complete as it used to be. Nova actually sends brochures FedEx (the last time I requested one after the NJT order in 1996). On the other hand, Neoplan will give out a brochure about as easily as a wild animal will give up its teeth. Prevost would take weeks to send them out until I started using a company name - then, I got them in 2 days.
One thing that always helps - research the product you're requesting information on, and compliment recently delivered product you've seen in your area. "I'd appreciate receiving the current sales package on the Prevost H3-41 and 45. The units recently delivered to Martz Lines in Pennsylvania look outstanding."
Exactly, I use either my site's name, TransiTALK International or my planned private bus operation company, Jersey Surface Corporation as my company name, But I've been doing the JSC name since about age 12 myself, so I'm pretty established among some of these companies, which is one of the reasons I was places on Nova's Membership Network! Also I'm pretty tight with MCI and NABI! Had close relationships with Flxible (OF COURSE!) until thier demise!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Since you weren't even around, I may lend you my copy of the original Grumman Flxible 870 folder from 1978. Emphasis on LEND hehehe
Flxible actually started the 870 with their own unique seats, but quickly went back to American Seating. They were almost as high-backed as the seats NJT uses in their Metro suburbans.
Also in my collection is the last GMC New Look catalog from Pontiac, the last New Look catalog from GM-Canada, the last Flx New Look catalog, the only Scania catalog, the Gillig-Leyland double decker, the only MAN Americana catalog, and plenty of RTSs, Prevosts, and MCIs among others.
OOH...I'd LOVE to see the Flx, Grumman, and New Look catalogs! And wait a minute.....Gillig-Leyland? No way....gotta see this!
-F.
Don't be TOO impressed.
Shortly after Gilig introduced the Phantom, they cut a marketing deal with Leyland UK to sell US-spec Leyland double deckers (left-hand drive, right hand doors, etc.). NYCTA demo'd them for a while, and sent them back. Their biggest problem was height - they exceeded the 13'6" height standard, and they would become convertibles pretty easily if the driver didn;t pay attention.
If I have time this weekend, I'll scan some of the various catalogs and put them up.
Thanks; I'd like to see it.
-F.
I envy you, Trevor. You're younger than me, yet had the chance to be on a first-name basis with the company who made the buses I grew up with. If only I had come out of the closet with my bus interests a lot sooner. Oh well, at least I know there's a wealth of info online. And fellow busnuts. :)
-F.
The best thing to do is get in good with your local TA; it helps if you have friends there. You won't believe how much neat Gillig stuff I find every now and then. Oh yes, and I also have an RTS brochure, complete with a CD-ROM.
-F.
OK...I'll talk like Barry White and tell them "I want a smooth, funky new RTS SS to make loooooooooooooooooove in aaalllllllll night long". OHHHHHhhhhhhh yeahhhhh. :)
-F.
Well, wasn't a SDM-5301 a glorified PD-4105 ?
Not really...the styling of the 5301 was much more pleasing.
Sounds like a REAL nice RTS. I'd love to see pics of this thing!
-F.
I take that back about the Nova SS being a Glorified MCI Cruiser. IT'S A SHRUNK DOWN PREVOST LE MIRAGE II!
After studying the packet a little further, reading the specfications and looking at the photos. I had realized that Prevost had the foot all in the bus. The parcel racks provided for the Nova SS is the EXACT same parcel racks provided for the Prevost Le Mirage, same goes for the reading lights and A/C vent layout. Also the Nova SS comes with Prevost Patented Tourismio Seats, which is ONLY a option on Prevost Coaches.
Looks like Prevost is playing a active partner in the Nova Production then just hiding in the backround.
If any of you get your hands on the Nova SS Packet you will definately notice the same.
Also the Nova SS is a "T" Drive bus ONLY, No "V" Drive. It comes with either the Detroit Diesel Series 50, Cummins ISC or Cummins ISM Engines with a Allison World B500R "T" Drive or a ZF ECOMAT HP-592 "T" Drive Transmission. Again the HVAC is on the Roof for better Climate Control distribution!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK
No way. T-drive? That may be in the favor of the RTS if it goes across the board. Many TAs prefer that setup now as they claim it to be easier maintenance; in fact, that is a main reason why we have new Gilligs coming to Roanoke and not RTSes. Guess which one I would prefer styling-wise?
-F.
Boy Hit by SEPTA Bus; Dies
By KYW's Karen Adams
A young boy is dead after being hit by a SEPTA bus in Northeast Philadelphia.
The third-grade boy was pronounced dead at Nazareth Hospital around 3:30 Wednesday afternoon, about half an hour after being hit by the Route 88 bus on Welsh Road.
Police say he was walking home from Pollack Elementary School when he was hit.
Story in Thursday's Inquirer.
FYI, the bus involved was Frankford 5279; the 88 trip in question was heading to Bethayres (Lower Moreland Twp, Montgomery County) and Holy Redeemer Hospital.
Today after an appointment in the area I visited the LI Bus depot on Commercial avenue. It is a bit of a walk from Stewart avenue (better to walk than wait years for a bus). Before I went in to complain about the hot buses I got a suprise. Guess what was in the yard in the back. Gilligs! Just a few of them from what I could see, I think I could make out the numbers on the two even though they were kind of far to see, something like 503 and 545. I thought they got rid of them all! I wonder why they are keeping them. Are any still in service. Anyway I had the pleasure of riding 288 this morning from Glen Cove to Hempstead with no A/C. Most of the riders must have a low IQ since none of the windows were open. I opened up the flip windows in the back, but that didn't help much in the traffic on that packed bus. Gosh the traffic in the Greenvale/Roslyn area is just a nightmere. I reported all the buses I rode that did not have a/c. Of course when I see buses pull out of the depot with the windows open I doubt the lady really meant the "mechanics would inspect the buses".
Me thinks there may be a cover up, LI Bus is try to improve fuel economy by cutting back on the A/C. Also complained about the locked windows. According to "safety reasons" some drivers lock the windows shut. I never see this on city buses. But I know alot of the LI Bus riders throw stuff like bottles and trash out the windows. Gotta love those well mannered LI Bus riders! :-0
Also saw 199 broke down on Roslyn road just south of the LIE, and 594 broke down right outside of Roosevelt field on the "ring road".
While waiting for an N27 in the afternoon on Stewart I tried to help this lost couple. They said they wanted to go to Jamaica and were waiting awhile. So I tried to tell them to take a bus to Roosevelt Field and transfer to the N22 or N24 or walk. But they did not get on the N27 and just continued to wait. I think they are under the impression the N24 runs down Stewart all the time, buT I believe it is only rush hours. Also they didn't know they had to flag buses down. Well I tried. Hopefully they got help from another bus driver.
I think having the a/c "ON" on the buses slow it down. It prevents it from having power taking off. Since the weather is not oppressive or hot, LI Bus believes that they don't need the a/c "ON" on the buses.
And I do agree that LI Bus's performance absolutely sucks! I waited over 30 minutes for the N25 AND N22 about 2 months back. However, since the buses only drop off Westbound in Queens-LIMITED stops in a way, LI Bus is pretty fast getting from LI-Queens. I remember taking 179, a Cummins Engine Bus from Marcus and Hillside at 157pm-I was back at Union anfd Utopia at 218pm-NO JOKE! A long wait for LI Buses but once you get on them, they can move.
N22#179Gary
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Today busses 9307-9312 as well as a few other NOVA RTS Expresses were moved from Ulmer Park to Jackie Gleason Depot. The reason given was they were going to be used for special olympics at the end of the month and were being retrofitted with special seats and modifications were being made to the wheelchair. Saw 9297 already on a lift at the depot. Anyone have any other info on what this is all about???
What special olympics?
I think it may be the Inner City Games-they have it every year.
B61#9308Gary
Nope, there's some kind of special olympics, cause we can volunteer to work it for service hours at my school...
Is those Buses are going to keep the Regular Seats? And I think JG is going to have a EXPRESS Service for this event. And after the event. Will those Buses would stay a JG or go somewhere else?
On all buses there is the rectangular sign that has PASS, ADULT, XFER, STUDT, SPCL, & BYPS. I know what all mean except BYPS. What is that for?
Also, when did these things first appear?
The farebox has 2 active positions. Normal operation and "Bypass". When mechanical failure results in coins not dropping into the farebox container, the BO will place the farebox in Bypass mode.
In this mode, the coins will not be counted, and all electronic coin registration data is lost.
Metrocard will continue to operate normally.
When the farebox is placed in Bypass mode, the BO must notify console and explain the situation. If a BO relieves another BO who had the bus farebox in Bypass, console must also be notified.
When the farebox is in Bypass, the blue "Byps" light on the Beakie Box will remain lit, while the rest remain dark.
I was on one bus before when the BYPS was on, but it didn't stay lit, it kept flashing and beeping like crazy. It was an annoying sound during the ride.
That's probably because of the problem that caused the BO to place the farebox in bypass. You might have heard a "triple descending" tone. The lights on the farebox would flash as well. That usually signifies that the farebox memory is full, and no data can be set/stored/read. In this case, the farebox would not allow normal metrocard operation.
Did the BO cover the farebox?
Did you notice if the BO "waved on" those attempting to pay?
Whatever the issue, if the bus couldn't be swapped, it remained in service, so as not to "lose trips". The farebox isn't a "satefy defect" that would warrant an irregular pull-in. It could be swapped at a terminal or along the route if the opportunity arose.
One problem that occurs, is that a BO will put the farebox in Bypass Mode when the problem doesn't relate to coin, e.g. there is a MC or Transfer stuck in the box & he/she forgets about the "TPU Access Door" and the little wheel that will let them manually crank out the problem card.
The biggest problem with the MC unit is a $1.00 O-ring. When it snaps it stops ... for the lack of a nail the revenue was lost ....
Mr t__:^)
There's no need to place the farebox in bypass for a Metrocard problem. Reason being, the bypass mode is to allow "free dropping" of coins which would otherwise overflow above the depository, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the EFC part of the farebox.
SOP with regards to NYCTA farebox defects are to notify console before any such actions are taken.
If a Metrocard is stuck inside the farebox, the coin data and collection process will operate normally. They are two systems independent of one another; coin collection mechanical, while Metrocard data electrical. Although the counting of coins is indeed electrical inclusive, that part of the system is independent of the IFC Metrocard data collection process.
In any event, if a Metrocard is stuck within the read transport, it can always be manually removed via one (or both) of the manual thumbwheels inside the farebox access door. Rather than lose fares, you should have bulletins that reisntruct the operators, or a farebox retraining class.
I'm curious as to your commentary, Thurston. If this happens at QSC, and a customers Metrocard becomes lodged within the transport, do they return the bus to the depot with the customers card? Do you send a road truck for this problem?
[I'm curious as to your commentary, Thurston. If this happens at QSC, and a customers Metrocard becomes lodged within the transport, do they return the bus to the depot with the customers card?
Do you send a road truck for this problem?]
When a MC gets stuck & the driver can't get it out AND no more cards will go in, he/she calls it in to the radio. Depending on where the BO is on their run they may send a replacement bus (Road Call) or them the BO to keep going.
If there is a MC inside & the customer wants it back the driver will either take the info. or tell the customer to call QSC. In any case the driver writes it up (Incident AND a Defect sheet). When the bus comes in if the Farebox Repair crew finds it, it's turned into me. I bring it upstairs, we "scan" it so we know what's on it. If the type card (unlimited) or amount remaining on the it (value) matches the customer's claim, we return the card by mail (some customers come by & pick it up).
This doesn't happen very often, but it's all part of our "service".
Mr t__:^)
Okay, that sounds just about the same as our procedures. The only exception might be our scanning it. Unless that's something our maintenence department would do, I'm not aware of it happening in surface. Anyway, I've never had a lodged card I couldn't retract and remove, so I don't know what happens in your case. I wonder what would happen if that happened, and the customer refused to leave without his/her card?!?!
Has that happened that you're aware of?
Sometimes it's stuck in there pretty good! That tiny thumbwheel doesn't help matters, especially when it's so high inside the entrance door. On the brighter side, at least we have access, and can try our best, out on the road.
[Okay, that sounds just about the same as our procedures. The only exception might be our scanning it.]
The TA does the scanning (we call they scan), since we don't have one (nycDOT decided we didn't need the device ... it happens infrequently enough that I don't have a problem with that). Sometimes, based on the circumstances, I go to Main Street on my lunch hour. My lunchmate parks, I run down stairs, scan, run back up stairs.
[I wonder what would happen if that happened, and the customer refused to leave without his/her card.]
Either tell them to call the Depot or Jay Street OR call the Dispatcher on the radio. If one of those $1.00 O-rings goes there is not much you can do about it. The folks at our Depot will listen to the customer's story & look them up. If they haven't called before & it's a good story we re-imburse them ... just part of the SERVICE.
Mr t__:^)
They need to install a new sign that reads
NO SEATS AVAILABLE - NEXT BUS PLEASE.
I know they have the second one, but the first one is needed for the MCIs, etc. b/c some people won't get on if there aren't any seats.
Saw 3474 in service.
Saw MCIs running with CALL POLICE and Q44 BRONX ZOO.
Saw 4046 - YUK bus - on the S76???? Why a YUK bus on CAS route? Haven't seen a RTS on S76 in more than a year.
93 Orion Express - Number Couldn't be seen - From CAS - looked like 161 or something - on the X18 - on the side of SI Expressway - Was broke down? or in Accident?
Also, dispatcher said that SI bound VZ Bridge both levels was closed due to a Jumper. It didn't last that long. They said that X Buses heading back to SI to use NJ. But what about if this happens and the S79 and S53? Do they backpile in BKLYN? or what happens?????
Saw MCIs running with CALL POLICE and Q44 BRONX ZOO.
On Staten Island, I assume?? We don't want any vicious rumors about MCIs coming to Stengel ;). Wow, talk about a route extension!
This is when they are deadheading.
Although in BKLYN 2 weeks ago, there were MCIs on the B64 & B74.
After much bad vibes on how TCC buses are, i rode the Q53 and had #3001. This had NO Dents on it and in perfect paint work. Noticed TCC #2823,#2071,#653 and #3070(dent-grey cover). Also saw #651 with the new paint job.
When i got to the Rockaways, i got on Q35 #626. Clean on the inside.
2 comments:
1-if you want to see Green Bus Lines-definately be on Woodhaven Blvd anytime after 3-there are many there heading toward Manahattan.
2-there was a sign on the GBL bus i was on saying they are making the buses neater inside by cleaning the floors and washing them more. Why cant they replace the windows like MTA-NYC Bus did?
Q53-Orion V-CNG #3001
Q35-RTSII-04-#626
B3-NOVABUS-#9097
The is a hot dog girl in a blue truck on Woodhaven when the food is good & the bus watching is excelent (Green, cTc, Command, TA).
Mr t__:^)
I have a question to ask:on the GBL bus i rode on 6/6/01, there was a sign that said inside that they were cleaing the GBL buses, and putting extra maintence workers on it. My question is, why dont they update the windows on the RTS buses at TCC and GBL like they did at MTA?
Just spotted 4158 and 4163 on the M6. Interesting to note that they both have new paint on them. Were they storage before this?
Also, you know how the back is usually painted white on the slant in the back rear, well these both had BLACK there. More evidence of being storage buses.
Also, 4163 DID NOT HAVE a REAR DESTINATION sign. I thought only the 81-82 and some 83 RTSs didn't have them?
4158 has been running around for awhile. It was probably rescued from scrap as it was reported here some time ago the she had no decals.
I think they are setting up Hudson Depot to have all old buses so that when it closes, the depot will close and the buses will go to scrap. The few new buses there will be transferred to Quill.
Maybe.
Or MJQ could get some OLD Buses.
This morning, on Seven Locks Road between Democracy and Bradley Boulevards, I saw an Orion V signed for the 14C heading south. I had crossed the beltway moments earlier and saw it was congested heading to VA. Was this bus trying to get around the mess? It was raining heavily so I was unable to note the unit number or if any passengers were on board.
Then, this afternoon, Metro-B 8835 was running on RO 36. This bus does not normally run there.
If you go to the WMATA website, they are eliminating the 14A in the midday, shortening the 14C to only run to Rockledge and are incresaing the fares on 14A-D to $2.00. This is going to kill that line. If they aren't getting ridership now, they wont get it with the rise in fares.
Also, the N7 is having some scheduling changes as well. Only 3 trips in the evening from federal Triangle to Montgomery Mall.
I haven't noticed any interesting bus moves in VA.
I saw that today. Don't blame WMATA, blame VDOT. If those buses could use the VA shoulder, people would ride them. But, since the bus in traffic can't go any faster than your car in the same jam, the bus isn't worth it.
That's very true. VDOT is very stubborn about the buses using the shoulders.
My theory about sprawl and crawl here in DC. Forget the outer beltway. Let's start building the outer outer beltway. You see, since no one lives where the outer outer beltway will ultimately be proposed, no one will object now. But, if we wait a few more years, people will be there and will object. This approach was used on US 6 in Carbondale, PA (near Scranton) where they expanded the road to 2 lanes in each direction with a median and interchanges, but the biggest traffic jam on that road is when you are stuck behind a car at the stop sign at the end of the offramp. Clearly, someone in Wayne or Lackawanna County (I forget which it is in) was planning for the very far future. As for the outer beltway, who needs it? By the time it is built, WTOP will be reporting about how it is over capacity.
Also, somewhere in the plans should be transit provisions. VDOT also destroyed the orange line extension by claiming they didn't know Metro wanted to extend westward.
And last but not least, I think VDOT should not stand for Virginia Department of Time-wasting. After all, what do you call the SmartMover, Springfield Interchange, and Wilson Bridge all rolled into one?
[This approach was used on US 6 in Carbondale, PA (near Scranton) where they expanded the road to 2 lanes in each direction with a median and interchanges, but the biggest traffic jam on that road is when you are stuck behind a car at the stop sign at the end of the offramp. Clearly, someone in Wayne or Lackawanna County (I forget which it is in) was planning for the very far future.]
It's Lackawanna County.
That is what I thought but I wasn't sure. All I can say is its a very nice area!
Well, the shoulder is for emergencies, anyway, so you can see their point. What about the center lanes reserved for cars with more than one person?
There are no HOV lanes on either the Maryland or Virginia portions of the Capital Beltway. I don't know how they would work if they had them since it is hard to determine a peak flow of traffic on that road.
Since everyone is talking about the express buses from UP goimg to QV and Jamaica, what about those Orions that are stored in Staten Island and Brooklyn (121-124 at Carleton Av Storage yard)? Who will get what? I'm just curious.
Ray Clendenin
Administrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
While going to a job interview(that got cancelled till tomorrow)-saw MCI #2794 and MCI #2169 on X29 route (runs 001 and 002,respectivaely)-they were spotted on Broadway near Worth Street. Guess the summer pick for these buses to be put on the X29 has begun.
The summer pick starts July 1, but with Ulmer Park receiving more MCIs I guess enough are available to release some for X-29 service already, at least in the afternoon.
David
All P.M. express pullouts from UP will be MCI's
As I said, in a different thread on the same subject, one RTS will be pulling out from Michael Quill, since it had been on the X-29 in the morning and pulled into Quill.
David
NOT so.
When I saw the MCIs on the X29 in the afternoon, I did see a few NOVAs on the X28. So not all will be MCIs.
Again:
As of the Summer Pick (which has NOT TAKEN EFFECT YET), all buses operating on the X-27, X-28, and X-29 routes, ACCORDING TO THE SCHEDULE, will be MCIs -- except for ONE BUS. That bus is an RTS that will be driven by an Operator on the X-29 in the morning, parked at Michael Quill Depot after the AM trip, and pulled out from Quill for its PM trip.
"Roadpilot" was susbstantially correct.
David
This is ROADPILOT I'm a 14 year veteran at UP.I drive an MCI every day. The PM yard dispatcher was told by management to book out only MCI's for the PM rush hour.Thanks David.
If in the summer pick, the X27,X28 and X29 were going to have only MCI for the runs, what is going to happen to the NOVABUS Express? Are they all going to Quill,Jamaica or are they staying in storage?
Ahem:
The X-29 will have RTSs in the morning, because not enough MCIs will be in Ulmer Park to support making the route all-MCI and there's no point in doing the thing partway.
In the afternoon, the X-29 will be all MCI except for that one now-famous RTS that pulls into Quill after its morning's work and has to come back because it'll get lonely at Quill without its Ulmer Park friends to play with. Express bus requirements on the X-27/28/29 are MUCH lower in the afternoon than in the morning, which means that relatively new and expensive MCIs that were being used on the X-27 and X-28 in the morning can either earn nickels on the X-29 in the afternoon, or take in the evening sun while four-and-a-half-year-old RTSs carry the passengers.
Sorry if I seem a little snippy, but this is about the fourth time in the past few days I've tried to explain this, and "Roadpilot" has been doing his best, too.
David
Add buses 2762, 2195, and 2759 to the X29 MCIs.
However, not that I saw more than usual amount of RTSs on X28.
Do any body know what buses are comming to the SEPTA Roadeo? And is there the Newer Buses are going to be there also? And what TA would be makeing a first time trip to the SEPTA Roadeo? I hopeing a MTA NYC Transit Bus would come to the SEPTA Roadeo.
I don't think NYC Transit would make an appearance, however, NJT, DART First State, and Greyhound are among the visiting systems that usually send a unit to the SEPTA Roadeo. Also, the School District of Philadelphia also sends some of it's newer school buses to the Roadeo as well. You can also expect a few historic buses - both maintained by SEPTA and by private owners - to be on display.
How about Other Buses besides those you said? Are they going to be there?
I really don't know the details as to what other buses will show up; I guess we'll find out when the Roadeo comes around.
I won't be on Bustalk on Thr night of June 22 to the night of June 23.b/c I going away to phily to attend the SEPTA Roadeo. And sometime in August. And that time. I would be back in Phily to tour around there. And June 23 in the AM. I would try to get a chance to ride a Neoplan Articulated before going to the Roadeo. If I ride the 9. I might ride a ElDorado on 35. Then come to the Roadeo. So see ya in Phily.
And BTW. I would be comming from NYC by takeing the NJ Transit Trenton Line to Trenton. Then take SEPTA R7 to Suburban or Market East. Then I would take NJ Transit 406 to get to my hotel. Or I take the NJ Transit 404 then the 455 to get to my hotel.
PEACE THE HECK OUT! Have a good trip!
Paz el infierno hacia fuera!
Paix l'enfer dehors!
Frieden die Hölle heraus!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
[I would be comming from NYC by takeing the NJ Transit Trenton Line to Trenton. Then take SEPTA R7 to Suburban or Market East. Then I would take NJ Transit 406 to get to my hotel. Or I take the NJ Transit 404 then the 455 to get to my hotel.]
Now that I think of it, you may be better off taking the 409 to Camden, then transferring either to the 404 or 406. The 455 does not serve Camden, but rather operates between Cherry Hill, Deptford, and Paulsboro. If you wanted to take the 455, you'd have to catch it in Haddonfield, which is reachable via the PATCO line from Philadelphia or Camden.
The fare between Trenton and Camden is $2.90, while the fare between Camden and Cherry Hill is $1.40. The transfer charge is 40 cents, and is good for the first zone on the second bus. To reach Cherry Hill via the 409 and 404/406, pay the driver on the 409 $3.30 (Camden-Trenton fare plus 40 cents for transfer), and on the second bus, give the driver the transfer and 40 more cents. Your cost would then be $3.70, which would be much cheaper than paying $5.00 for the R7 and $2.30 for the 404/406 from Philadelphia. If you get to Trenton around mid-afternoon, there is a 4:45pm 409 express bus departing Trenton Rail Station, which stops at Cherry Hill Mall at 5:40pm (traffic permitting). If you wanted to take that bus, then take the 3:07pm NEC train from Penn Station/New York.
"The fare between Trenton and Camden is $2.90, while the fare between Camden and Cherry Hill is $1.40. The transfer charge is 40 cents, and is good for the first zone on the second bus. To reach Cherry Hill via the 409 and 404/406, pay the driver on the 409 $3.30 (Camden-Trenton fare plus 40 cents for transfer), and on the second bus, give the driver the transfer and 40 more cents. Your cost would then be $3.70, which would be much cheaper than paying $5.00 for the R7 and $2.30 for the 404/406 from Philadelphia. If you get to Trenton around mid-afternoon, there is a 4:45pm 409 express bus departing Trenton Rail Station, which stops at Cherry Hill Mall at 5:40pm (traffic permitting). If you wanted to take that bus, then take the 3:07pm NEC train from Penn Station/New York."
OK. I take that way instead. BUT Someone is comming with me and won't leave not til 4:30 PM to Cherry Hill,NJ. BUT the 409 don't go to Cherry Hill Mall. And is there any other time if the 409 EXPRESS would run besides the 4:45 PM 409 EXPRESS?
That particular 409 trip is a single round trip express which runs express between Camden and Trenton, operating via I-295, and the Moorestown and Cherry Hill malls. The only other way to reach Cherry Hill via NJT from Trenton is to take the 409 to Camden, then the 404 or 406 to Cherry Hill.
OK. BUT I would have to pay the full fare on 406 b/c the ride to Camden on 409 is like 2 Hours long. So can I get a Transfer when I leave the bus? And the Hotel in on HWY 70 near Kings HWY in Cherry Hill. The hotel is near by the 406 and 455.
Just ask the driver for a transfer and I'm sure you'll be able to change buses in Camden. I don't think you should have any problems, but you never know with NJT sometimes...
I don't know what Suffolk County's policy is for retired transit buses. Are they scrapped, resold ?
Anyone know if any ex-Suffolk County buses are running is a different locale ?
Bill "Newkirk"
What is G&W bus lines bus roster?
Orchard Beach
Westbound between Orchard Beach and Broadway/207from Orchard Beach --Summers only
via North on Park Drive, Traffic Circle ,,South on Park Drive,West on City Island Av,South and West on Shore road,South on NET,
to either Broadway/207 or Pelham Bay Station ,Amendola Plaza
The Shuttles run between Orchard beach and Ameddola Plaza
Eastbound buses from Pelham Bay or Broadway 207 street.----via Bruckner Blvd Service Road,,North on NET,NOrth on the Hutchinson River ,East on Beach Road,,Traffic circle ,Beach Road, Park Drive into Orchard Beach
Bx5 same from either West Farms or the White plains/Pugsley Av
Shuttles run bet West Farms and White Plains (PUgsley Av)
Orchard Beach Service Eastbound is the Same for Bx12 or Bx5
Destination Sign Readings
Bx12
Bx12 Bay PLAZA
BX12 VIA FORDHAM RD
BX12 VIA PELHAM PKY
BX12
BX12 LIMITED
BX12 BAY PLAZA
BX12 VIA FORDHAM RD
BX12 VIA PELHAM PKY
BX12
BX12 PELHAM PKY
BX12 ORCHARD BCH
BX12
BX12 LIMITED
BX12 ORCHARD BCH
BX12
BX12 WH PLNS RD
BX12
BX12 BARTOW AV
BX12 EDSON AV
BX12
BX12 INWOOD
BX12 BWAY---207
VIA PELHAM PKY
IA FORDHAM RD
BX12
BX12 LIMITED
BX12 INWOOD
BX12 BWAY--207
via PELHAM PKY
VIA FORDHAM RD
BX12
BX12 SEDGWICK AV
BX12
BX12 FORDHAM PLZ
BX12
BX12 LIMITED
BX12 SEDGWICK AV
BX12
BX12 WH PLNS RD
NX5
BX5 PELHAM BAY
BX5 VIA STORY AV
BX5 VIA BRUCKNER
BX5
BX5 ORCHARD BCH
BX5
BX5 WHITE PL.RD
BX5
BX5 LIMITED
BX5 ORCHARD BCH
BX5
BX5 ELY AV
BX5 VIA STORY AV
BX5 VIA BRUCKNR
BX5
BX5 W FARMS RD
BX5 SOUTHERN BL
BX5 VIA BRUCKNR
BX5 VIA STORY AV
BX5
BX5 LAFAYETTE AV
BX5
BX5 LIMITED
BX5 SOUTHERN BL
Click here for the article from the Washington Post. The bus in the accident was Flxible Metro-B 9280. From the photos on the front of today's Metro section, the bus only appears to have a shattered windshield. The bus shelter was totally destroyed.
I like how they said the bus "lurched 100 feet". A lurch is a jolt, I think this bus did more than that. Its a very sad story.
That is a sad story. 100 feet is just over 3 bus length's so it is not a big distance to travel. Can you find out or do you know if the bus had a CUMMIN'S engine.
The ones from 9280-9288 are Detroit Diesels.
Last night I took the SIRT home and we passed by the Naval Base and Edgewater. In the naval base, there is a garage that has taxis, Police vehicles, ambulances, etc. Bus 2606 used to be parked outside there. Now it's GONE!!. Where did it go??? Did NYC take it back to put back into service??? Like 2270 and 2660??
Also, outside of Edgewater and the EZPass office was TMC 8400 RTS in New Police Scheme. (I assume it was 8400.) Never knew it was kept on SI.
that garage possibly belongs to picture cars limited. i believe they are based on staten island. also the police bus is probably 4505 which now belongs to staten island task force.
2606 is owned by Blue Water Bus Center; IIRC, it's the bus in the "Quit Yet?" ad.
Question:
If the MCI D4000 order numbers were #7503-8364, then how is it that Coach USA and Rockland Coaches have 8400 series D4000s when the MCI order only goes up to #8364? Did they add on the 8400 series to the order or is that a separate order from the D4000s that NJ Transit got? Well, they WERE ordered by NJ Transit (it said so on the bus), but I just need a clarification on the numbers. I saw an unmarked Rockland Coach bus #8409 this morning at the Port Authority, out-of-service #8480, and #8460 on the #20 line (Red& Tan lines, now Coach USA) this afternoon in the Lincoln Tunnel (all while I rode the 168 line to/from Paramus.
Thanks in advance!
CWalNYC
NJT_MCI_#168_7611
Ok that is old information!!!!
The new D4000 Cruiser Numbering is:
NJ Transit Units #7501-8112
Private Units #8401-8915
The D4500 and D4000/96 Numbers are not picked yet!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
NJ Transit D4000 Units #7501-8112
Private D4000 Units #8401-8915
The D4500 and D4000/96 Numbers are not picked yet!
The Number gaps is null and void, NJT Unit Buses #7618-7755 will still be D4000s. The Gaps in the Private Unit buses are null and void also.
The D4000/96 and D4500 numbers will be elsewhere, its a good chance that they can be numbered in the 7100-7499 and 8200-8399 Series.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I believe the entire order is 7504-8364 and 8401-8784. Unlike the Cruiser orders of the 1980's, when NJ Transit and privates got mixed numbers, it appears that all the NJ Transit buses will be 7504-8364, while the privates will get 8401 and higher.
As an aside, 7503 was one of the three original demos. It did duty with at least Academy and Rockland Coach. I'm not sure whether it is a 40-footer or a 45-footer (I've heard conflicting reports), but a friend of mine has a picture of it and it does NOT have silver sides; it is all white, like the NJ Transit CNG buses.
7501 was the D4000 demo; 7502 was the D4000/96 (narrow bus) demo; 7503 was the D4500 demo. I don't know where 7503 is presently, but I had thought 7503 was tested out of Suburban instead of Rockland.
Among both series of buses (NJT and privates), there are several gaps in the numbering. I don't know if those gaps will be filled or not, but I'm sure they will. DeCamp has 8401-8435, then the next number is 8451-8453 for Carefree, then 8454-8523 for Rockland. The NJT numbering starts at 7504-7617, then 7756-7801.
8409 is a DeCamps unit; I think the Rockland Coach unit in question is 8509.
Yeah boarded hot bus 163 this AM on the N21. It felt like walking into a kitchen. Not only was there no A/C but almost all the windows were closed. Man what's with these LI Bus riders? I had to open several windows just to get some oxygen. Well at least the ride to Flushing was fast.
Saw 142 broke down on the eastbound side of Northern Blvd, just after Searingtown road. Supervisor was on scene, I guess they were waiting for a tow truck. Also saw 628 broke down in Roslyn this evening awaiting assistance.
Well at least the other buses were air conditioned that I rode on, so 3 out of 4 aint bad. Well it's not even that hot yet. I guess we can look forward to a long summer of breakdowns.
(a man wakes up and opens his cereal box to find a free LI Bus maintainance license)
"a man wakes up and opens his cereal box to find a free LI Bus maintainance license"
Give 'em a break. How's LI Bus and the rest of MTA's budget looking these days, btw?
I know a series of bus moves has taken place in Brooklyn. I haven't had time to read through past posts but do recall hearing something about MCIs on the B64 and B74. I know that things have changed within the last week, as I have sighted today a 9300 series UP bus heading away from the B51 line heading down to one of the depots. I sighted IN SERVICE 9311 on the B75 line in revenue service. Please, if you can, explain the latest bus trades and what routes are where. Also tell me possibly if UP will fulfill its plan to go all suburban.
UP doesn't have any plans; it's the Department of Buses that decides what will go where.
As for UP going all-suburban, it may happen on the expresses eventually (X-27 already is and X-28 will be effective with the Summer Pick). However, UP has several local routes and will continue to have local routes. Those routes will operate with standard buses. (If MCIs did operate on the B-64 and B-74 recently, as was reported here, it had to have been under emergency conditions -- the report said that it happened while Jackie Gleason Depot's CNG fueling station was off-line on a weekend, causing Ulmer Park and other depots to send buses to Gleason temporarily. The MCIs are not made for local service.)
David
How many diesel buses does Jackie still run? I know Jackie is not at 100% CNG fleet
Sorry, I don't have that figure. My guess is 30 or less out of a fleet of more than 200. Gleason has 190 New Flyer C40LFs plus 31 Orion Vs that are CNG.
David
The lastest Transitalk and UTC rosters both show 47 RTSs at Gleason.
Today on the way home, I got to ride on 3881 (I believe) on the M31. It's one of the ex-100th Street depot buses with cushion seats... I know several of these buses used to do runs on the M86, before it went artic, but I never knew they/one did the M31. What's weird is that the M31 comes outta 126th, so why would they be using buses that should be at Quill? Unfortunately, I totally forgot to look at the depot, since I just got the bus, and had to make a quick conenction. Also, I checked the roster/depot list at TransiTalk, but couldn't find 3881 there.
What's up with that?
3881 was a JAM bus that was supposed to be scrapped!
The two express buses currently operating out of 126th Street Depot are 3887 & 3893. For whatever reason both buses seem to be spending a lot of time on the M31 & M57. I've had the opportunity to drive both and find 3887 to be the superior bus. As for express buses being assigned to 126th Street, this is not the first time this has happened. Late last year express buses 3803 & 3810 also spent time there. 126 is essentially MaBSTOA's dumping ground for unwanted buses.
Yep, that's it 3887! Do you know why they didn't just go to Quill, like a lot of the buses from 100th street?
BTW- What buses are used on the X90/92? I haven't seen them around in a long time.
I couldn't tell you why 3887 & 3893 are at 126 and not Quill. Express buses are useless on a local line especially during rush hour when space is at a premium. Like I said in my previous post, 126 is MaBSTOA's dumping ground so we tend to get some strange combinations.
The buses that I've seen on the X90/92 are all 9000 series Nova's. I haven't seen a 3000 series work those lines in a long time.
While passing by the racetrack on the LIRR, I seen several Grummans/Metros doing shuttle service in the parking lot. I have not seen any ex-NYC RTS's around or the yellow slopeback. I hope that Jetaway will have these up and running also.
To quote Les Nessman from WKRP In Cincinnati....."OOOOOooooohhhh!!!"!
That is GREAT to find out that these beautiful coaches are still in service. Could they, by any chance, be Niagra Falls buses? Some of our 1979 35-footers were bought by them and I was wondering if those may be the ones you saw.
At any rate, those are a good-looking bus and should serve the track well!
-F.
The yellow slope-back isn't yellow anymore. B-T'er Big Al (Jones) took what is probably the last pics of that bus in its original Port Authority livery, last June or July. Jet-Away has repainted the bus in a sh** brown color. Al took some of those also.
If you go to Trevor's website - www.transitalk.org - he has posted Big Al's pics. I think its under "minor transit systems" or "contributors" under Jet-Away Transportation
How many Flx 870's did you see ? I know Jet-Away had ex-NJT 2202 and a beige one (ex NJ-IBOA IIRC) # 302. Did you see any others ?
I seen them from my train, There were 2 from what I could see, kind of in a NJT-ish paint scheme.
Looking at QV Depot on the way out aboard the LIRR i noted 7026 against the fence with the rear exit doors caved in. Also some other 3900s and 4100s sitting there. Can't say it was the scrap line cuz there were a couple 4900s and 600 Orions in that line as well.
I went by the 100th Street depot, and it looks like they are making good progress on it. The ceilings (from where the beams are at) look like they will be high, and the beams are fairly far away from each other (I guess to accomodate the artics). Anyone know when 100th is gonna re-open?
New 100th Street Depot Will be open in early 2002 & will have four lever.
Peace
David Justiniano
MaBSTOA/NYCT Traffic Checker Operation/Opertation Planning
BTW: NYCT #8808 is back on the road after bad accident couple months ago & also who say this bus going to scrap??????
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Early today While i was walking with my driver to get the bus to get ready for second half & i walk inside the depot saw NYCT #8808 with fresh new paint, bumper, doors & windows. NYCT did a great job repairing #8808 from the bad accident couples months also who say this bus going to scrap???
Peace
David Justiniano
MaBSTOA/NYCT Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
While i was at Kingsbridge Depot taking a break & i look up the board that have all the list from diffirent depot that have MDBF & Accident. Here is the list i saw on the board
MaBSTOA MDBF Avg.Jan. Feb. Total Accident from Jan. to Apr.
Gun Hill------------2,988--2,623-------169
Kingsbridge---------2,848--2,453-------195
Mother Clara Hale---2,423--2,516-------60
Amsterdam-----------2,128--2,225-------79
Manhattanville------2,196--2,243-------129
Micheal J. Quill----1,937--1,933-------123
Hudson Pier---------1,787--1,764-------82
NYCT
126-----------------2,351--1,942-------73
ENY-----------------2,798--2,477-------164
Jackie Gleason------2,802--2,628-------151
Flatbush------------3,061--2,833-------103
Fresh Pond----------3,648--2,911-------109
Ulmer Park----------3,775--3,476-------94
Casey Stengel-------4,196--4,963-------79
Jamaica-------------11,433-9,552-------60
Queens Village------6,426--4,989-------72
Castleton-----------6,268--6,002-------148
Yukon---------------10,646-10,553------96
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
Jamaica buses have an MDBF of 11,433 miles? WOW! Kudos to Jamaica's maintenance department for a job well done!
thanks to the mcis yukon in second place.
I knew it...the Orions (611-630) would drag down the QV MDBF.
O.K., occasionally each one of us (including myself) will misspell a word, but there is constant abuse when it comes to the word "weird". I've seen this word misspelled over and over again. If it's due to the "(i) before (e), except after (c)" rule, well then throw the rule out, otherwise you'll end up with a "wierd peice" instead of a "weird piece".
Yes, yes, yes; I agree. As a former Spelling Bee champion, it irks me to no end when a word is misspelled; this is one of my personal pet peeves as I feel it shows a lack of education and is just plain tacky.
Of course, we all screw up every now and then; maybe we hit a wrong key or we're tired, I'm not perfect, I've done it before. But it really grinds my gears when someone repeatedly refers to a Grumman as a Grummond, a Flxible as a Flixible (where on Earth does one get that?!?), or a Gillig as a Gilling. It is something I may very well carry to my grave, but I just can't help it. It makes me livid.
-F.
Oops.. My bad :(
Your bad on which one? At any rate, it's an easy mistake to make and happens all the time.
-F.
The Best one yet has been Flexable! However the guy that posted it, I'm cool with so I can't tease!
I know when I screw up on typing, it's due to me rushing, I tend to rush a lot.
Regards,
T.Lo
I tend to rush a bit myself; that's understandable. T-Lo, eh? Too bad you don't look like J-Lo....LOL!!!
-F.
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Been awhile since I went to the Garden State Plaza. So I took the 171 from GWB to Garden State Plaza. When it pulled up the sign said " via Garden State Plaza". I took a new schedule and now see the 171 serves the GSP bus stop most of the time. The first bus I took to the mall was a Flxible, and had good A/C. I think it was using the 6V-92 engine, the number was 3576.
The bus gets off Rt.4 at 17 and then down to GSP. What a pleasure, no more long walk across the bridge!
Going back the 3:40pm bus to GWB was another Flxible and right on time. But take a guess? There was no A/C. It seems unairconditioned buses like to follow me wherever I go.
Actually it wasn't too hot because the albiet small windows had good cross ventilation. Temps were actually only in the 70s for most of the day, it's just that sun makes it feel so much worse. It also seems hotter in my neck of the woods in Northern Nassau than Bergen county.
It's amazing that bus can get you to/from GSP in 20 minutes!
I like the way NJT operates v.s LI Bus, especially with the scheduling. Since weekday 171 riders are more commuters they have an amount of runs that bypass the mall and run more often in peak. For Saturdays they have buses operating out of GSP every 20 minutes most of the day. I don't think LI Bus has any routes out of Roosevelt Field that run that often on a Saturday.
Kudos to NJT for great service to the malls in NJ, even on Saturdays. LI Bus could learn a lesson from them.
[For Saturdays they have buses operating out of GSP every 20 minutes most of the day. I don't think LI Bus has any routes out of Roosevelt Field that run that often on a Saturday.]
Wrong - the N15 operates approximately every 15 minutes to and from Roosevelt Field on Saturdays.
I was looking at the May 2001 issue of Mass Transit Magazine, and on pg. 65 is an article about the Town of Vail (CO) installing the NextBus system (a real-time arrival/departure system for urban stops); on the next page is a pic of a newer Vail bus that looks very interesting.
Basically it looks like a New Flyer LF with Orion-style angled sides, NABI-style side windows, Flx Metro-style front bumper, and a neat six-headlight front end with wraparound turn signals that blatantly reminds me of the 1980s Pontiac Sunbird. Can anyone tell me what type of bus this is? If so, where can I see more pics of it? Please help keep me in the know!
-F.
Having not seen the picture, I would guess that that bus is a Neoplan. I say that for two reasons:
1) Neoplan USA is based in Lamar, Colorado, so many of the small and midsize transit systems in Colorado use a pretty wide variety of Neoplan products, old and new.
2) The styling sounds very Neoplan; sharp and stylish. By your description, it seems like a pretty cool bus. I would love to see a picture.
I'd like to see it myself; it looks like a nice bus.
-F.
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I had a chance to loiter around RIPTA's Elmwood Ave garage today and found a couple of surprises: I had my first glimpse of a 2000 Nova 40' RTS , #0034, in the garage. And sitting outside the garage was a preview of RIPTA's latest order, 2001 Orion V nos. 0102 and 0103.
Also some bad news: #9208, which has a mural of the West Kingston Intermodal Center on its side complete with Acela and an RTS, was on the defect line and looked like it was in a minor accident - it was hit right in Acela's nose! I also got to chat with a mechanic, who says the ex-NYC buses are garbage and are in the shop far more than they're on the road.
What do people want for a bus that is 16 yrs.The 1985 RTS-04's that operate for GBL and CTC are just as bad as the ones that the NYCTA didn't send to the RIPTA(plus those are the ones that operated mainly in the Bronx)
I'm not saying I'm surprised; actually, I'm not quite sure what they were thinking when they decided to buy 1985-6 buses from a city that's far harder on internal combustion engines than Providence, repaint them, and put them back into service... Of course, I still think it's cool they're getting a second life :)
The RIPTA paint job those look better than the NYCTA paint job on said buses.BTW I couldn't tell did they keep the NYCTA window setup or was that changed to all open sashes like every other RTS order in the US.
I'm certain that nothing changed except the paint. It is a nice paint scheme; far better than the old RIPTA striping, too, which vaguely reminded me of the Houston Astros' uniform of the early 1980s.
Sounds like RIPTA is now going Orion. And is the Orions are replaceing the Neoplans? And it just them that thinks it Garbage. It's the way RIPTA Handle those Buses.
An BTW. Did you took Photos of the new Orion's and that 2000 Nova RTS?I would like to see a photo of them.
Photos of the Orions need to be developed. I didn't get the '00 RTS, but it doesn't look any different from the '98 RTS.
There are 20 Orions expected to be on the property by the time the order is complete. I do have a couple of pictures, but I haven't been able save them to a disk and post them just yet.
i don't know that ripta was receiving orions.
't w
Well, I saw Orion #0103 running on the 17 this past Saturday, and everything else on the road were 1998 and 2000 RTSes. Also, parked by the garage were three all-white RTSes, two of which has New Mexico Demonstrator permits. These permits identified the "model number" as 853227 and 853215 (IIRC), respectively; are these serial numbers, or new model designations replacing T8O206?
I saw another RTS demonstrator headed northbound on I-95 in eastern CT about 2:00 Monday morning; destination sign set to "OUT OF SERVICE."
So that I don't drive myself nuts, I'm going to space these out. I'll do one every 2-3 days or so.
Coming this week will be:
- 1975 GMC New Look (last from Pontiac)
- 1977 Flxible New Look (last of its kind)
- 1978 Grumman Flxible 870 (first of the model, features 870 #1 - MARTA 3001)
I'm not going to scan the entire catalog, nor will they be large enough to read the type in most cases. If you have any questions on the models or catalogs when they're posted, reply to those threads when they appear, and I'll do the best I can in answering them.
KC
Wait a minute...I thought the last Pontiac-built GMC New Looks were made in 1977? Fort Wayne, Indiana had some US-built Fishbowls delivered that year, as did Chicago. Also, 1978 was the last year for the Flx New Look; Akron Metro received the last of those in September of that year.
-F.
These are the final catalogs, not the final or first dates of production. By 1975. GMC knew they were converting Pontiac to the RTS, so there was no point in releasing further sales promotion.
As far as Flxible, 870#1 (MARTA 3001) was produced in the new Delaware OH plant prior to the last Flx New Look from the Loudonville OH plant.
Please read and answer my questions on transit in New York and New Jersey, Thanks :)
1) Does Academy still operate Flxibles ?
2) Where does Bergen bus lines - Broadway bus lines operate ? how many Flxibles do they run and where ?
3) Where does Lafayette and Greenville operate there Flxibles from and can someone tell where the good locations for photo's of there Flxibles are ?
4) Are there any other operators in New Jersey or New York who operate Flxibles, and please tell me good some locations to take shots of there buses ?
5) On which routes could I find MTA New Flyer D40 and D60 buses ? and where are good locations for photo's in Brooklyn or Manhattan ?
6) Please tell me some good locations for GM/MCI Classics for the
following operators:
-Command bus (do they still have any ?)
-Green Bus Lines
-Jamaica Bus
-Liberty Bus Lines
-New York Bus Service
-Queen Bus Lines
-Triboro Coach
7) New York bus service, New Looks :Where do they run too and are these locations good for photography ?
8) Could someone please tell me where are some good locations for New Jersey Transit Flxibles and Volvo Artics ?
9) Connecticut has a large bus fleet of Classics :)
9A) Where can I go to see the green-yellow-blue Classics in any city that is safe ? I heard that cities in Connecticut are run down e.g. Bridgeport??
9B) Where can I find the Seat Classics ? is this place safe or
not ? Or have they been repainted ?
Thanks Luke
1) Yes, Academy Hoboken Division current operates Flxible Model 40096-6T METRO "B" #3275, 3278, 3279, 3280. They are used in limited weekday rush service the most.
2A) Bergen Avenue IBOA operates from Journal Square to the Bayonne City Line via Bergen Avenue. Currently Bergen Avenue has Flxible 40096-6T METRO "B" #3192 and Flxible 40102-6C METRO "D" #1750, 1766, 1768, 1773 along with a bunch of 1999-2000 NovaBUS RTS T80-206.
2B) Broadway Bus IBOA operates from 60th & Kennedy to 1st & Broadway via Broadway. Currently Broadway has Flxible 40102-6C METRO "D" #1752, 1754, 1755 along with a bunch of 1999 NovaBUS RTS T80-206 and T60-206.
3) Lafayette & Greenville's Flxible Fleet is spread all over the place, For the main part I see the L&G Flxibles holding down spots on the 16 & 3. However I've seen them on the 11, 31, and the Local.
4) Private Transportation and Westchester Bee Line System asides from NJ Transit and the NJ Transit Privates operate Flxibles. For Private Transportation Flxibles I couldn't tell you where exactly to stand for shots. But for the Bee Line Flxibles you can go to the last stop on the (1) & (4) Trains, 238th Street on the (2) Train and Fordham Road @ Valentine Avenue for possible Bee Line Flxibles. Or Even Better, take the Metro North Hudson Line to Yonkers RR Station and stand there. You're bound to see a lot of Flxibles there.
5) Currently MTA doesn't have D40 buses, MTA has D60HF and C40LFs. For the D60HF Articulateds you can ride the M23, M79, M86, Bx1, Bx2, Bx4, Bx12, Bx22, Bx40/42, Bx41, Bx55 for indefinate possibilities on the D60HF. For the C40LFs go to Jay Street/Fulton Mall via the (A) (C) (F) trains. Once you are upstair, you will be flooded with possiblities of C40LF photos.
6) MCI Classics:
Command @ 23rd Street between 6th Avenue and 1st Avenue is a pretty decent area.
Green Lines is sketchy as they put the MCIs all over but for a decent shot, Stay on 34th Street between 6th & 1st Aves.
Jamaica @ 23rd Street between Madison Avenue and Park Avenue is the layover.
Liberty Lines @ 25th Street is the Layover.
NY Bus Service @ 23rd Street & Madison is a Layover.
Queens Surface & Triboro is mainly in the 34th Street area.
7) The NY Bus Service GMC New Looks operate mainly at Weekday Rush Hour, top hour to see them on Madison Avenue between 23rd & 72nd Street between the hours of 4pm and 7pm.
8) NJT Flxibles are all over, go to the George Washington Bridge Terminal or the Port Authority and have your pick of Flxible runs. The Volvo Suburban Artics can be found on the 156, 158, 159, 167, and 320 lines for the most part. Volvo Transit Style Artics (3 Doors) can be found on the 13 and 39 Routes along Broad Avenue in Newark.
9A) The best place i've been to for CTTransit Classics has been New Haven, they are flooded there and run pretty frequently. Safe Place!
9B) Take the Amtrak to the New London Station and there is the meeting point for several SEAT Classic Routes! Safe Place
Hope This Helps you Out!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK
Are you near Westchester County ..
If you go to Port Chester .from 287 Route to Westchester Av Eastbound nr Route 1,you will see the buses-=On Route 1
Well that's why I directed him to 242nd Street on the (1) Line as a option becuase he could get a Flxible on the 1 or 2 line easy!
Regards,
T.Lo
Port Chester Railroad Station of the Metro North
You will see CT Transit Buses Stamford Division
Take the B train to 50 St Station
Walk to 50 and 18 or 49 and 18 Av ,,from Maimonides Hospital ,,you will see them for sure
----I originally lived in Bensonhurst
Take the B train to 50 St Station
Walk to 50 and 18 or 49 and 18 Av ,,from Maimonides Hospital ,,you will see them for sure
----I originally lived in Bensonhurst
On 49 or 50 St,,between 10 av and 18 av
They won't be there from late Friday Afternoon to Sunday morning since Private Transportation, Inc. is owned by an Orthodox Jew and the company strictly observes the Jewish Sabbath.
Thank you too all that ansewered my questions..thanks again :)
Just to let you all know that my spelling isn't the best since I'm only 18 :)
Anyway I have a few follow up questions :
1) What do you mean about the private transit operators not running Friday's.Which company does not run on Fridays ?? I'm coming down on August 17 2001...
2) I'm going to be staying in Belleville ...and using route 13...aswell I can go down to the NJ garage and shots of there Flxibles :) Anyway are there any locations on that route for picture taking ?
3) what about the malls in New Jersey, do any offer routes with alot of buses going there ?
4)Do Bergen, Broadway or L&G allow people to visit there garages and take some photo's of not ?
5) So there are no Grummans running in Tri State area ?
Thanks again
Thank you, too all that ansewered my questions..thanks again :)
Just to let you all know that my spelling isn't the best since I'm only 18 :)
Anyway I have a few follow up questions :
1) What do you mean about the private transit operators not running Friday's.Which company does not run on Fridays ?? I'm coming down on August 17 2001...
2) I'm going to be staying in Belleville ...and using route 13...aswell I can go down to the NJ garage and shots of there Flxibles :) Anyway are there any locations on that route for picture taking ?
3) what about the malls in New Jersey, do any offer routes with alot of buses going there ?
4)Do Bergen, Broadway or L&G allow people to visit there garages and take some photo's of not ?
5) So there are no Grummans running in Tri State area ?
Thanks again
"1) What do you mean about the private transit operators not running Friday's.Which company does not run on Fridays ?? I'm coming down on August 17 2001..."
PrivateTransit do run on Fridays and Saturdays. Just on Jew Holidays. They don't. Since they own by a Jew.
") I'm going to be staying in Belleville ...and using route 13...aswell I can go down to the NJ garage and shots of there Flxibles :) Anyway are there any locations on that route for picture taking ?"
I think you could. And anywhere is fine. It doesint matter where you take it. The 13 is a Articulated Line. With 3 Door Volvo Articulateds out of Big Tree Garage.
"3) what about the malls in New Jersey, do any offer routes with alot of buses going there ?"
I don't know about that. BUT if you into the 700 Routes. Go to Bergen Mall that's where most of the 700's go. And beside those routes. 168 PABT-Bergen Mall and 171 GSP-GWB Bus Station stops there also.
"4)Do Bergen, Broadway or L&G allow people to visit there garages and take some photo's of not?"
I think they do.
"5) So there are no Grummans running in Tri State area ? "
PrivateTransit do run Gummans. NJ Trnasit have them until 1995. CT Transit have them til eather 1992 or 1996. Jamaica Buses have them until Last Year.
And BTW. Nice web site.
Dom.
Please don't refer to Jewish people traditions as "Jew holidays".----that is somewhat demeaning!!
Private DOES NOT run from Friday Sundown to Saturday Sundown -due to Sabbath Observance.
and note,,I am not strict in religious observance--I am a Church Musician with a child being raised in the Christian Faith .
Thank you
Steve
FDNY Operations
Where can I go to see the green-yellow-blue Classics in any city that is safe? I heard that cities in Connecticut are run down e.g. Bridgeport??
[You can also find a few Classics on the Stamford routes, though the majority of runs are pulled by Scanias - which to me, resemble NABIs.]
Bridgeport is terrible. I had a cousin who owned a liquor store and was killed in a hold-up in the late 70's when the perp jumped the counter and got hold of my cousin's gun. The area hasn't improved. In fact the Bridgeport Law School went bankrupt and was taken over by Quinnipiac College in Hamden (near New Haven).
IIRC the suburbans run in New London. I remeber waiting last Sept for the NL-Orient Point ferry and seeing a Classic with a rear door. I put up a post about it and someone (IIRC Sid from NJ) answered it. If the archives go back that far you can pick it up. It was around Sept 6, 2000 or so. Getting to the ferry I came south off an Interstate past a coast guard building, a college and the ferry terminal. That part of New London looked safe and okay.
Hartford has a bus system. The downtown area around the Town Center Mall looked safe and alive, even at night. However I wouldn't wander away from that area without risking life and limb.
Loving culture as much as I love transit lead me to the Puerto Rican Pride Festivities around the city yesterday. While in the village, I came upon a little Transit Surprise, Looks like the MTA was celebrating too!
Here is MCI D4500 Cruiser #2081 dressed up for Puerto Rican Pride:
Regards,
T.Lo
Ok Since Angelfire is much like geocities in this sense, if you want to see the photo, just drop me a e-mail and I'll be glad to send it!
Regards,
T.Lo
Service notices throughout the system, and employees nearby stated that the Court Square area work would be completed sometime in June.
This cannot be true because the 2 Queens Village E/F/G/R shuttle "hawks" are not only still available, but they will now become "picked runs", rather than "extra pieces" picked from the extra list and RDO / OT work.
These shuttles will continue throughout the summer, at least.
The new Summer Pick that went up on Monday has the QB44D redesignated the "QB63S", and alloted two runs (01 and 02) to be picked in seniority order, as any other run in the garage.
Run 01 QB63S 8:07PM - 6:12AM Pay 10:29 RDO Sun/Sat
Run 02 QB63S 8:17PM - 6:22AM Pay 10:29 RDO Sun/Sat
Of course, because these runs are picked, and no longer overtime, we lose the "half pay" that would have had these runs pay 15:29 per run. The half-pay will be added to the 2 RDO runs for Saturday and Sunday, however, as scheduled RDO relief work from the extra list.
Extra tidbits:
Radio Login: 001 /651
002 /651
Farebox: #7 Subway Shuttle or #9112 "G Train to Court Square".
Oh yea, the place is a mess ... has effected us too.
Mr t__:^)
Is there such thing as the flxible old look?
Not really. However, there is a predecessor -- the Fageol Twin Coach. Chicago Transit Authority #8499 is the cross breed between one of them and a Flxible "new look" style bus -- it has the Twin Coach body, witht he Flxible front end. I wish I knew where I could point you to a picture, as seeing it would really explain things better than I can.
The April-June 2001 issue of Motor Coach Age has a picture of the New/Old Look Flxible. Contact the Motor Bus Society at PO Box 251, Paramus NJ 07653. Single copies are $6.
David
I believe at least one of the original Chicago Flxible Old-Look-style buses has been preserved.
Hey
Chicago only has a Flxible New Look like this one :http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/tranzyt/131.jpg
And a Fishbowl too.
But one of the Museum's in the area has one.
Luke
members.aol.com/chictafan
Every Chicago bus you could think of is under this site.
-F.
Yesterday, while driving on the Connecticut Turnpike, I thought I saw a Greyhound bus that was an H-series Prevost. It went by very quickly, so I could have been mistaken. Does Greyhound operate any Prevost H-series buses? (I recollect this may have been mentioned in a past post, but I really don't remember for sure; I apologize if the question had already been answered.)
Also what you saw was Greyhound's 1 year old MCI 102-G3 (G4100) coaches. Yes Greyhound has H3-41 Prevost but they are no where near this area!
Regards,
T.Lo
Wait, I saw one on Friday near the PA Bus Terminal. Didn't catch the number at all. I was passing by on the bus.
CWalNYC
The more I thought about it, the more sure I am that it was a Prevost H-series that I saw. I got a good look at the side, and it sure looked like a Prevost-H. Then, I glanced at my side view mirror and the tail lights/rear definitely looked like a Prevost (many more lights than most MCI models). Perhaps others will spot it in the near future.
I thought Greyhound of Canada had some H3-41's.
Wayne
While on the Connecticut Turnpike yesterday (as mentioned in my Greyhound Prevost? post), I saw a Peter Pan coach (#703) that looked like it was an MCI Renaissance Coach. It was in all-white, not having been given the very nice Peter Pan paint job yet.
YOU JUST SAW THE MCI J4500! I have a pic of it a Fort Lee Bridge Plaza!
Regards
T.Lo
Where was it going ? Third star to the right used to navigate ?
Just kidding ... yes they have a nice paint job.
Mr t__:^)
Was it being leased through another carrier? I may have been on that coach one evening between Hartford and New Britain (CT). It even had that "new bus smell" to it. I belive it mentioned a NJ company either on the door or on one of the luggage compartments underneath on the passenger side.
I saw 4 new MCI J-Series coaches at Peter Pan's Springfield facility on Memorial Day weekend at the Bus Bash. MCI had their J-Series demo coach on display also. Only 1 of Peter Pan's new J-Series coaches had been painted in the Peter Pan colors and was displayed at the Bus Bash. The others were expected to be painted shortly after Bus Bash.
Mark Watson
Irregardless of how we may feel about this new vehicle and how it looks, all of us, as serious transit bus fans, must keep this single fact in mind: this is a pivotal moment in NYC Transit history.
We are going to be the very first major-market transit system in both the USA and Canada to have and operate this all-new model unit. We have not been in this position since 1950. We're talking 51 years.
Therefore, lets not let such a great opportunity go by the wayside.
In other words, let's all make sure to stock up on plenty of Kodak and Fuji and get out and shoot the @#$% out of 'em!!
Yeah, I'll shoot them (Shoot them silly), as long as that cheesy New Flyer remake doesn't crack my lens!
God, how can the MTA allow themselves to be the first to have a bus that is Sofa-King (Say it fast) ugly. In anycase, granted it maybe a pivital point in the MTA's and Orion's history as long as it doesn't crack in half in the middle of 4th Avenue like it did on the shaker table and cause the MTA and New York City embarrasment and its title of "If It can make here, it can make it anywhere!"
Regards,
T.Lo
If you take any photos of the OriOn VII Make the display signs look funny.
He is only able to do that to NJT Buses.
Why???
Actually I can do that to TA buses to if I wish!!!! Or DC, or Baltimore, or Philadelphia......Never Limit T.Lo's Capabilities to NJT ONLY!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Does anyone know the address of Orion's website, if there is one?
Click here
there is this one at freightliner, but it's so basic that it's not even funny. There used to be another one, but now it's gone and gone forever.
I have a more direct URL:
Go here
Enjoy!
CWalNYC
Whoops. Tried to link to the site, but when I put in the HTML, it didn't work as I wanted it to. It just put "www.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/" in fron of whatever I typed. Here:
http://www.freightliner.com/corp/orion_splash.asp
Sorry.
CWalNYC
Last night while on the X15 passing by City Hall, There was Nova Suburban 9298 on the B51 loading up going back to Brooklyn.
I thought it was going to JG for maintenance for the special olympics, and wasn't going to be used. Maybe they were testing it hoping to have to use the W/C lift.
Interesting enough, the UP decals were not removed, so maybe this bus will actually go back to UP, or maybe JG will keep the 5 or so Novas they have for the B51??
I also saw 9311 on the B75 at Fulton and Jay St. heading southboung. This bus still had it's UP decals.
X18/X15 Rider
i saw #9338 on the B1 this morning and #9312 on McDonald Avenue-could not tell if was on the B67 route or not-is JG getting UP NOVAS?
I don't know how "permanent" the move is, but several 9250-9349 series RTS soft-seaters have gone from Ulmer Park to Jackie Gleason.
By the way, the B-1 is an Ulmer Park route. Anything on McDonald Avenue (if it's where it's supposed to be) is running out of Jackie Gleason Depot.
David
The move is not permanent. Buses 9296-9312 are at JG because the 8500's series are being repowered one by one or maybe more than that. BTW, most of the buses have NOT gone to JG, they have been split up to other depots. Buses 9250-9269, 9278-9281, 9285, 9291 and 9295 are with Jamaica. Buses 9270-9277, 9282-9284 are with Michael J. Quill and buses 9286-9290 and 9292-9294 are with Queens Village.
Ray Clendenin
Administrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
how are they deciding on the repowered buses? I mean, i saw a few 8300's and 8400's out of FLA that are repowered. Does that mean the 8300's out of UP are to be repowered as well?
First, the 8300's will not be repowered until the 8400's, 8500's and the Orions (at least buses 101-316) have been repowered. Flatbush which has the 8400's (as well as Hudson and 126th St in Manhattan) and Jackie Gleason which has 8500's (as well as Hudson in Manhattan)are being repowered little by little as we speak. The buses 8000-8396 will not be repowered until at least the start of 2003-2004.
Ray Clendenin
Administrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
if this is true, then how come some of the 8300's and 8400's were allready done, but not the 8500's? (example 8330 and some 8400s were done by FLA)
The buses are not repowered in the depots; they're repowered in the main shops.
The 1990 (8300-8396) and 1993 (8401-8564) series are being done at the same time, but not in numerical order. The 1993 Orions are being done, too.
David
Do you see an exhaust pipe coming out of the top of any of the 1990 buses (8000-8396)? If not, then they are NOT repowered. If they do, then that is a shock because the MTA said that they were going to wait until the Orions and TMC RTS buses (8401-8564) are done.
Ray Clendenin
Administrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
#8330 has it and some of the 8400 series at FLA does. Saw #8530 on the b9 today and hat it done as well, but #8539 did not.
As mentioned, 8330 is repowered. So is 8120. Others from the 1990 series probably are, as well.
David
chalk up another NOVA Suburban on the B70 today (#9312)-still has the UP label and the phone on the bus still says Ulmer Park. My question is, if JG is using UP buses, why doesnt UP take over some of JG routes until the buses are repowered(example, the B70 or B68 for instance). And the NOVA Buses at JG, they are there temporaily, right?
A depot "taking over" a route from another depot is much more difficult than just saying "OK, from now on the B-9 is in Ulmer Park" (say), sending 20-something buses over, and running it. The schedule has to be completely rewritten, the Union has to review the schedule and agree to let the Operators pick the work, the work has to be picked, and some other internal stuff has to happen. Beyond that, there has to be physical space in the depot that's receiving the route for the additional buses -- and that's not the case here.
David
If 8330 has an exhaust pipe coming out of the top, then it has been repowered. If you have noticed that the 8400's have that as well and YES!----most 8500's have been repowered like buses 8551, 8538, 8561 (most from Jackie Gleason).
Ray Clendenin
Administrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
[The buses 8000-8396 will not be repowered until at least the start of 2003-2004.]
I guess subsequent posts have corrected this somewhat; the 1990 buses are being repowered simultaneously with the 1993's. To me, it didn't make sense to wait for 2003-2004, when these buses would be 13-14 years old, about the time NYC Bus should be getting rid of them. (I believe the Federal guideline is that the useful life of a transit bus is 12 years.)
I think the repowers must be completed by 2003 when federal clean air standards take effect. TA will have to dispose of any bus that is not using a clean air engine. (i.i anything built before 1990)
Can somebody give me a list of repowered buses from the 1990 series ONLY! (Buses 8000-8396) I know buses 8120 from Fresh Pond and 8330 from Flatbush have been repowered and bus 8236 from 126th St is almost repowered (a hole on the upper left-hand corner of the bus but no pipe).This info I got from the other at BusTalk. Can somebody---anybody give me a list (don't matter how long the list is---it can be two buses, one bus or twenty buses). Thank you!
Ray Clendenin
Administrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
8120 from FP? Maybe you meant ENY. Though 8120 fishbowl was once at FP :)
Bus # 8216 at 126th Street has been repowered and is now in service.
IIRC, 8539 out of gleason (or some number like that) was repowered as well
8465 and 8479 out of HP I believe were repowered too.
Q32#8479Gary
The buses that I have seen repowered:
FLA: 8156,8330,8424
JG: 8530,8538,8554
B46#8424MikeLimited
B35#8554Mike
So what other buses are going to be Repowered besides the 1990 and 1993 RTS's and 1993 Orions?
The 1994-1996 Orions! There exhaust pipes will be moved from the bottom to the top. Bus 416 at Amsterdam Depot already has that and bus 465 from the Bee-Line buses in Westchester has it too.
Ray Clendenin
Administrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
I thought the 94-96 Orions had this already, but didn't have a pipe co,img out of the back. They have a metal screen there.
Saw this bus (2209) last night on the X28. Guess the order is complete now.
However, I do not understand why CAS is still operating Orions. They have been using 170 and 128 a lot recently (both repowered).
I saw one of the MCIs that were converted to look like the D4500/4000s. It was like a MCI 96-A3 or earlier, as it still retained the rear brake lights like the Academy buses.
The front looked fine, the back looked like s@#t, and very ugly. I forget what company had this bus.
I think there should be a change in the X15. Here is what I propose.
AM Runs
X15 Normal route on SI. In Manhattan, run to Midtown-57th Street via Church St and via 6th Avenue.
New X35 - Follows same route as X15 on SI. In Manhattan, run to Midtown via Battery Place via Water Street via FDR Drive to 23rd Street via Madison.
Route Signs read
X15 WEST MIDTOWN
X15 via CHURCH ST.
via 6TH AVENUE
X35 EAST MIDTOWN
X35 via BATTERY PL
via WATER ST
X35 via FDR DRIVE
via MADISN AV
PM Runs
X15 runs along the DOWNTOWN LOOP as it presently does.
X35 runs along 7th Avenue to 50th/51st Street, across to 5th Avenue, down 5th Avenue to 23rd Street, across 23rd to the FDR Drive and to SI.
Signs would stay the same as they presently are on the X15, where both would terminate at Arthur Kill Road, and run the same route on SI.
Some people need to go to Midtown, and having a bus that also goes to Midtown on Richmond Rd. would be better.
Just my thoughts. Maybe the TA would consider this.
nyct has actually considered a version of this for years. considered only they are not willing to spend any more money on staten island except for x21/x22 which gov pataki forced on them.
I would also suggest this on other North Shore Routes that do the downtown loop. I am not that familiar with those EXPRESSES since I live on the South Shore of SI.
In celebration of the 25th anniversary of the New York Transit Museum, a special celabratory event will take place on Wednesday, July 4th, 2001. This includes a BusFest on Schermerhorn Street. The price of admission is at 1976 levels. Adults 50 cents (or one Y cut token), under 17: 25 cents.
This info comes from a piece of mail from the museum that my aunt, a former member, recieved.
Is it a Traveling event?
The buses travel, but the BusFest doesn't. It's held every year on Schermerhorn Street between Court Street and Boreum Place in Brooklyn, right outside the main entrance to the Transit Museum.
Please tell me there's another one for some reason July 26th sounds familiar, with the regular stuff.
Nope, just the stuff on the 4th and the ongoing exhibits.
Going by what the web site (www.mta.nyc.ny.us/museum) sez...
July 26th is a Thursday. Odd day to do something special at the museum, right?
Why, did the MTA skip from X20 to X31 on Staten Island busses?
I can see now that there will be an X21 and X22, but why wasn't the X31 called the X21 (so the new ones would be the X22 and X23)?
Just a subject change and:
Why is the Queens TA express numbering the way it is? X51, X63, X64 and X68?
Well, that is because back in April 12, 1991 the MTA had renumbered its bus routes. Here is a list:
X51 - the same
X63 - formerly the X20
X64 - formerly the X24
X68 - formerly the X18
Q79 - formerly the Q12A
Q74 - formerly the Q44VP (Vleigh Place)
Q20 - formerly the Q44FS (Flushing Shuttle)
Q46 - formerly the Q44A
Ray Clendenin
Administrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
The X18 conflicts with the SI X18, but why were the others renumbered? When did the Manhattan X23 become the X90 or X92?
I do not know. It could have been in the 1970's. Actually, the X23 became the X92 in my opinion because the X90 and the M9 were from the Avenue B and East Broadway Bus Company in the 1970's.
Ray Clendenin
Administrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
[The X18 conflicted with the SI X18, but why were the others renumbered?]
In the case of Queens, it would have been silly to renumber only the X18 but not the X20 (which also conflicted with Staten Island) and X24.
On a city-wide level, however, my best guess - remember, this is ONLY a guess - is that somebody once envisioned a grand numbering scheme for all express routes (Transit and NYCDOT) with a counterclockwise geographic pattern:
X1-X20 plus X31 for S.I. (Transit);
high X20's for western Brooklyn (Transit);
X30's for central/eastern Brooklyn (Command);
X40's for western Queens (Triboro, Green);
X50's for northeast Queens (Transit, Queens Surface);
X60's for southeast Queens (Transit, Jamaica Buses);
X70's for eastern Bronx (New York Bus Service);
X80's for western Bronx (Liberty);
X90's for Manhattan (Transit).
The X51, X63, X64, X68, X90, and X92 seem to fit right into a pattern like this. Then again, why didn't the X25 become, say, X95, to fit in with intra-Manhattan? And why didn't the X32 become, say, the X52 (or even X52/X53/X54, one for each branch)?
Who knows? :-)
The reason is because the MTA had the X20 and the X24 in Queens until 1991 when they were renumbered the X63 and X64. Both go to Queens and Manhattan. X63 goes to Rosedale and the X64 goes to Cambria Heights.
Ray Clendenin
Adminstrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
While working an Surface Point Check at 57th St/Madison Av on X27/28/29 & i saw most of MCI & few RTS buses. Here is the list what i saw today.
X27: 2170,2176-2177,2181-2183,2185,2187,2800 & 9328.
X28: 2172,2188,2189-2191,2194-2195,2198-2200,2204,2207,2209, 9315,9319,9329,9337,9339 & 9344.
X29: 2800,9313,9318,9323,9330 & 9334.
BTW: #2800 is the only MCI running on X29 also 9328 is the only RTS running on X27 and some RTS running on X28.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
NYCT's buses, including express coaches, are generally not assigned to particular routes. The X-27, according to the schedule, is supposed to be all MCI (I would not have liked to be on 9328; since the schedule is built based on MCI coaches carrying 50+ people, a 39-seater must not have been fun!). The X-28 isn't yet, but it will be as of July 1. The X-29 schedule is built for RTSs, but of course, if an MCI is available it can be used (and, in the afternoon starting in July, 12 of the 13 trips will be covered-BY SCHEDULE-with an MCI). Anyway, back to the original point I was trying to make...just because, say, 2172 was on the X-28 on June 12, that doesn't mean it will be on the X-28 on June 13.
David
All those express buses from Ulmer Park (9296-9312) are now Jackie Gleason buses with the JG decals on them. They are there because buses 8518-8564 are being repowered (only a few at a time). If you notice, buses 8538, 8551, 8561 have exhaust pipes at the top like the NovaBUSES. The rest of the 8500's as well as many of the 8400's will look like that as well within the next couple of years. After that, buses 8000-8396 will be repowered as well with the exhaust pipes coming out on the top. That will start after the repowering is finished on the 8400's, 8500's and the Orions (101-316 which many of them have been repowered). the repowering of the buses 8000-8396 won't be completed until at least five years from when they start (example Aug. 2001 to Sept 2006) maybe five or less. I hope this explains the reason why JG is receiving the express buses. Also, for the NYC Olympics as well.
Ray Clendenin
Administrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
Not all of those express buses from Ulmer Park don't have Jackie Gleason stickers on them, at least not as of the afternoon of June 12, 2001. I have seen several of them, as I work in Downtown Brooklyn, and all of the ones I have seen have had Ulmer Park stickers.
David
I really should learn to think and type at the same time :-)
That should be:
Not all of those express buses from Ulmer Park have Jackie Gleason stickers on them, at least not as of the afternoon of June 12, 2001. I have seen several of them, as I work in Downtown Brooklyn, and all of the ones I have seen have had Ulmer Park stickers.
David
Also from what I heard all the Nova and Orions Express buses are going to have there soft seats removed and the flours flatting out so new head seats can be put in like the rest for the buses. Anyone know if this is true. Let us know
Robert
How are the floors unlevel in a suburban bus? Do you step up to the seats?
What does flatting out mean? Is this in relation to the 1999 {not 2000} New Flyer C40LFs out of Jackie Gleason with that floor that sparkles? This I believe is called anti-slip flooring I don't know why. It can't soak up water but I guess there's something in the texture that makes it that way. If you put these floors on an RTS things may get interesting.
1) yes you do step on into the seat the these buses.
2) I meen that the T/A is going to remove the steps and make the four flat like the standed vuses. I was told that the steps were just added to the regual floor so that seet and all look forard.
Robert
They will real soon.
Ray Clendenin
While training for my CDL last month, I got the chance to drive three ex Bee Line buses. Numbers 146, 147, and 133 are 1979 GMC RTS-II buses. They still have their original livery, but the Westchester County lettering has been removed. They are in good shape, but one was in an accident, so the rear door does not work. 146 can be hard to start because of a defective neutral safety switch, but all three are used for driving lessons. They also had three GMC Fishbowls from NYBS still in the original livery. Two have been presumed scrapped, one still remains, but she does not go out at all. I passed my road test on the 18th with 146. I have to go back to take my DOT physical, so that will be my last chance to see them.
where did you see these buses at? I have been to both of the bee line garages. And the only rts i saw the 1979 # 170 at 475 garage
Hey, where are you learning to drive those buses, what company?
B61 Leonard
For those of you who track this stuff...
Route 37 runs out of Gaithersburg in the mornings and Silver Spring in the evenings. The two buses on the 37 this morning were 5706 and 5575. 5706 is on loan to Gaithersburg from Silver Spring.
Source: B/O of this morning's 37.
Also, 5410 (silver bus) isn't serving the trip leaving Grosvenor for Parkside on the 47 at 7:40 anymore. I didn't see the trip formerly served by the Orion VI so I don't know about that.
I saw a photo of a NJ Transit 30 Foot Nova on 406!! I keep thinking that 406 Runs 40 Foot Buses. NOT 30 FOOT BUSES!! MAN WASHINGTON TOWNSHIP GARAGE MUST BE CRAZY TO PUT A 30 FOOT BUS ON 406!! Now here's a link to that photo.
Click here to see the photo of a 30 Foot Nova on 406.
406 Nova RTS #2562
Earlier this evening, I saw something even freakier when driving south on the GS Parkway returning from PS Plaza - Nova RTS 1270 on the #164!!! I almost caused a ten-car pileup out of shock!
But that's not the first time I saw something like that - I've seen Nova RTS's and Metro D transits on the #145!
These are routes on which MCI's are the norm!
I could've sworn I also saw a Volvo Artic suburban signed as #163 at the PABT, but I'm not 100% sure. Never seen that sight after that.
The GWB routes out of Market Street often get a good mix of stuff. On the #171 and 175, for example, I've seen Novas, Metro B's, Metro D's and MC-9A's. Metro B's are the "standard" buses for those lines.
Oh yea. Hear this.
Back in 1999. When RTE 308 was running out of Howell Garage. I got MC9A #6165 on 308 going to Six Flags. At that time. The CNG MCI's run on that route. BUT when I was comming back. I got the CNG MCI on 308 . When the bus left the bus stop in Six Flags. Just behind anouther CNG MCI. A Eagle was right behind it and it was going to do the 308 also. 308 is a BUSY Route. The seats are nearly full up doing the busy time of the year. And that happin on the MC9A and on the CNG MCI I missed. And this happin doing July and August. I bet it's even worser then that doing the weekends. Since I rode that route on a Wednsday. Could that be the reason why 308 is now running out of Meadowlands? I hopeing Meadowlands would put a Articulated on 308.
I doubt that an artic could make it from NYC/Newark all the way down the Turnpike to Exit 7A, where Great Adventure is located ... at least not the current Volvo artics. Then again, I think that would be one hell of a haul for any artic.
That said, however, the MCI cruisers, whether assigned to Meadowlands or Howell, are the appropriate type of bus for the 308. Perhaps once the D4500 cruisers arrive in about a year or so, things may improve.
Actually, I can top that...
Last summer, I spotted Newton Av #1870 pulling down service on the 318 one Saturday morning. My guess is that they needed a wheelchair lift equipped bus, but then again, they could've used one of the w/c lift 30xx Metro Bs or the Metro Ds.
The 30 ft Novas are used only on the 406 only during peak hour trips to Medford Lakes.
Oh. Did not know that.
So do the MC9A's run on 406 on Weekends? Since I be useing that route on Weekends and when I going to Cherry Hill on Next Friday Night.
It depends. Sometimes, the 406 will see a Metro B, other times it's an MC-9A (which are the only cruisers besides the smattering of D4000 coaches at Washington Twp right now; that will change this summer as the next D4000 batch arrives on NJT property). I think the MC-9As are used on the trips that go to Berlin Twp, while the Metro Bs are used on the short turns to Marlton.
OK. BUT I have seen a photo of a MC9A on 406 with the Headsign saying "406 MARLTON". I guess a Flxible run sometimes just doing Weekday or when a Wheelchair person needs a bus with a W/C Lift. Who knows!!.
That's possible, however, not all the Flxible Metro B buses at Washington Twp - where the 406 operates out of - are wheelchair accessible. I really don't know how runs are cut for the 406, so I was just guessing as to why particular buses are used for particular runs.
SO I guess the 406 runs more MC9A's then Flxibles Metro B's? And I hopeing to get one on the 406 on a saturday. And BTW have you saw a 406 Bus on a weekend when you around Market St?
NJ Transit has said fine, you wanna charge us, we ain't providing service, ALL ROUTES THAT SERVED THE BERGEN MALL WILL NOW BYPASS THE BERGEN MALL AND TERMINATE AT GARDEN STATE PLAZA. The 168 line will just bypass Bergen Mall and Proceed to Paramus Park Mall!
CAN WE SAY BUSINESS LOSS!!!!!
Regards,
T.Lo
Jeff Warsh got one right. Applause!
Spoke to GSPT Support Services today, and as he understands it, Queens Village will receive the first Orion Hybrid shipment between September and December, 2001.
Managemant and analysts are leaving New York for Canada on Friday to review the order, and oversee NYCTA specifications.
The exact number of buses to be delivered is unclear at this time.
Queens Village Depot has been under construction as of May, and is in the process of installing the necessary HVC lines in which to service the Hybrid Electrics.
Are the 10 Orion VIs @ Manhattanville going to Queens???
Are the 10 Orion VIs @ Manhattanville going to Queens???
As well as the Nova Hybrids???
Introducing the OriOn VII the Bus that makes passengers mad.
The OriOn VII is simply a copy of the New flyer C40lf but Faulty.
The OriOn is in two versions.
1. Hybrid electric ( VERY SLOW )
2. diesel (perfect for polluting the air!)
The OriOn VII Costs:$100,000,000
Order yours Now!
(This is a parody Don't take it seriously!)
MCI 2139 - rode tonight - the door that is rectangular at the top doesn't close all the way and one can push it out.
REMAN RTS 7048 - This bus has a front destination sign like the 3800s. Why??? The rest have ones like the Novas.
TMC RTS 8236 - saw on M15 - has the cut in the roof for the pipe for repowered engine but doesn't have the pipe. Is this one repowered???
It will be. Buses 8188, 8236-8237, 8248, 8250 are jst a few. So far, bus 8330 from Flatbush has been repowered from what I heard.
Ray Clendenin
Adminstrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
Also #8120 as well.
Ray, I don't know about the rest of us, but I would call you a busfan, not a "Adminstrative Assistant" just because you help Trevor on his Web site ... i.e. title can misslead casual readers here ?
Now wait ... my comments don't diminish in any way my appreciation for the realy fine work that you, Trevor, Gary & Kevin do to capture & share with us all those great photos !
Mr t__:^)
For your information Mr.T, Trevor GAVE ME that title "Administrative Assistant". I DID NOT make it up! True, nobody knows who I am and yes I am a busfan BUT!!!!!!! I want the people to know who I work for as well and to check out the website. So Mr.T, I hope this explains this title of mine a little bit better. Just so you know, I DO NOT!!!!! insult your comments out in public. I'm sure that you have my e-mail address, so if you have a problem with me and my title that Trevor gave me, then e-mail me at my e-mail address-----THANK YOU!!!
Ray Clendenin
ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT
www.transitalk.com
P.S. Even though I'm the A.A. at Transitalk, it does not make me "Mr. Know it all" about transit. I just notice what I see and with a little info from Trevor----I ask and at times answer questions.
For your information Mr.T, Trevor GAVE ME that title "Administrative Assistant". I DID NOT make it up! True, nobody knows who I am and yes I am a busfan BUT!!!!!!! I want the people to know who I work for as well and to check out the website. So Mr.T, I hope this explains this title of mine a little bit better. Just so you know, I DO NOT!!!!! insult your comments out in public. I'm sure that you have my e-mail address, so if you have a problem with me and my title that Trevor gave me, then e-mail me at my e-mail address-----THANK YOU!!!
Ray Clendenin
ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT
www.transitalk.com
P.S. Even though I'm the A.A. at Transitalk, it does not make me "Mr. Know it all" about transit. I just notice what I see and with a little info from Trevor----I ask and at times answer questions. My comments maybe strong or out of context but I just wanted to set the record straight.
[I DO NOT!!!!! insult your comments out in public.]
It wasn't my intention to "insult" you, that's why I added the complementary words about the quality of Trevor's sight ... so sorry about that. My only point was that what you, Trevor, Kevin, Gary, etc. are doing is not so much a JOB that you work at, as a labor of love. Titles seem to send the wrong message, well at least to me. Obviously you are very proud of the specific task that Trevor has assigned you on the sight, but I would still assume it's more a labor of love then a job.
[... it does not make me "Mr. Know it all" about transit ...]
I don't think ANY of us are, the least of which is myself. I come to BusTalk to learn, as I only work for a bus company as a Manager & thanks to Dave P. and all of you here I have learned a lot, which has helped me on the job ... not with my specific job so much as with background information which helps me understand. I don't use my "job" title here, because I'm NOT posting as a official representitive of my employeer. I'm just a curious guy who happens to work for a bus company.
Mr t__:^)
Final point ... I ALWAYS end my post with a smilie face so that folks understand I'm not answering in a mean way.
Okay, my mistake...let's move on!
Ray
Sounds good to me. Keep up the good work Ray & say hello to Trevor for me the next time you see him.
Mr t__:^)
Today while on the X15, Console came over the radio saying that all Orion Buses were to turn off their Retarders.
I know the retarder is to slow it down, but why turn it off? Is there some kind of massive defect??? If there is, the city may be screwed again and have another Grumman Flxible situation on their hands!
Why would anyone deliberately slow their buses down? Are retarders like governers? I didn't know that feature could be turned off.
"Why would anyone deliberately slow their buses down?"
I don't know...how about bus stops, traffic lights, vehicles right in front of the bus?
The retarder works with the braking system to slow down the bus. It is normally turned off in wet weather. I have no idea why an order would be given to shut it off on June 13...I only saw a few minutes' worth of drizzle in Downtown Brooklyn.
David
It's a weather related problem. Maintenance probably suggested that it be done as a way to combat overheating. I dont know if it works. You will probably soon see them setting up the water trucks at major locations to hose down the radiators too as it heats up this summer.
The retarder i believe is affiliated with the transmission like a 'jake brake' on a truck. It helps slow the bus down while at the same time saving wear on brakes.
That is correct.
Mr t__:^)
Do most bus companies have these overheating problems on a regular basis like the Orions?
Well, if you're using the transmission & engine to help stop the bus on a very hot day with the AC running at full blast to save ware on the brakes ... yes.
Mr t__:^)
i know tha GMC RTSII Have bad overheating problem
Hello everyone; just wanted to let you know that I have just tried my hand at doing a custom 1:64 scale San Fransisco Fishbowl model, with great results. The first of these will go on sale at eBay tonight; if you go under the Buy It Now option you get free shipping.
I also have a 1:64 scale NYC Fishbowl coming up for sale as well and have other models available; hit me up for more info if you're interested.
-F.
Whats the item number so we can go directly to it?
The Muni Fishbowl is item no. 1155857179; happy bidding!
-F.
You'd probably get some bids on the thing if you put a picture of it there so people can see what they are actually bidding on.
I did a custom paint job of one of those 1/64 fishbowls in Muni colors -- I have a source for actual MUNI lettering) and the thing finally sold for $36.45!!! (But I had a picture of the handiwork to show prospoective bidders.....if an auction has no picture, I NEVER even think of bidding on it myself.)
I'd love to, but I am on a loaner as my computer is toast at the moment and the closest uploaded pic I had was of a local Flx. I also have a good Muni graphic myself; BTW, your model looked GREAT! Maybe I could borrow your pic...LOL.
-F.
Hi ,again
This is my umpteenth request
I have all the NJT Route Destination signs
--does anyone have a FUll U P D A T E D listing showing all the Independant Operators---thier Destination Sign Readings
Essex Cty
Hudson Cty
Middlesex Cty
Thank you
Steve
914 668 9218
Saw #116 on I-678 on Tuesday. I saw a Pipe on the top of that bus. So the bus have yet been Repowered. So this makes it 3 Repowered Orion Suburbans at CS. #112,#116,and #118. And #116 have a rear sign saying "Q44".
Q44 Orion5 #116
Today's (6/14/2001) Newark NJ Star-Ledger had in its bid section an ad from NJT:
Request for proposal
RFP 01-634
Procurement of Diesel Electric Hybrid Buses
Proposals are due July 26, 2001. Prospective bus manufacturers will offer proposals for hybrid buses (it is not specified whether they are transit, suburban, intercity, or minibus) and NJT will determine the best configuration for their needs, then negotiate a purchase contract with the winning manufacturer.
With the previous specualtion that Nova has the inside track on the 1989 Flxible Metro replacements, it's very possible that the 27 transits could be replaced by Nova RTS DE hybrids. NJT already has the body parts inventory, and Nova already has some experience with the hybrid setup.
Sounds like CNG could be over at NJT, since a diesel-electric powertrain can be placed at any garage without the need for pressurized natural gas lines, and gives the benefits of reduced emissions and improved fuel economy. The five Flxible CNGs are white elephants - who would buy a used CNG in a body that was discontinued 5 years ago - and the 77 MCIs are reportedly out of service more often than the diesels. Personally, I would not be surprised if the MCIs were refitted with standard diesel powertrains at some point down the road.
[The five Flxible CNGs are white elephants - who would buy a used CNG in a body that was discontinued 5 years ago -]
Perhaps a transit system that has Flxible Metro CNG buses (ie. Ride On)?
[...the 77 MCIs are reportedly out of service more often than the diesels. Personally, I would not be surprised if the MCIs were refitted with standard diesel powertrains at some point down the road.]
If that happens, I would expect a lot of heat from the Legislature and from enviromental groups. No matter how NJT tries to explain it, they're still going to get criticism from a lot of groups who support CNG fueled buses.]
The Clean Diesel New Cruisers are cleaner burning than the CNG Cruisers come to find out! Just becuase it's titled "Compressed Natural Gas" doesn't necessarily mean that its cleaner burning. CNG is actually more harmful to the lungs.
I had put a Notice to Flxible METRO D #1975 in the notices becuase he normally has the skinny on the CNG/Diesel Particulate Info........
Regards,
T.Lo
Thanx T!
Well the deal is CNG is a big deal because you don't see the "Soot" or any kind of exhaust. But remember that what you can't see can actually be more harmful. CNG when burned produces fromaldhyde (Sorry if spelled incorrectly! LOLOL) which is a known cancer causing carcenogen and a greenhouse gas that destroys the ozone layer. What you have now going on is the cleaing up of diesel fuel. The main problem is the sulfur content of diesel. Because of the very high levels of sulfur, many after-treatment devices used like the Particulate Traps, Catalytic Convertes, etc have not functioned correctly because the sulfur destroys the systems. MTA-NYCT has implemented the use of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel to insure that the 1993 repower project currently in motion at transit is a success. CNG is a political thing and is really over rated in my opinion. The cost of CNG is very expensive from implementation in a depot to the related matinance costs. Also the quality of a providers CNG has alot to do with the performance of the vehicles that utilize CNG, look at PSE&G and the NJT fiasco a few years ago with the METRO-C fleet. Diesel will never die and it isn't going anywhere! Again this is just an opinion and I look foward to other ideas that my fellow Bus-Talkers have to offer.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
No Problema!
I kinda figured you'd know that better than me because of our past dicusions on the subject. Now Hybrid I can run you ears off about! LOL
In anycase, e-mail me when you get a op.....either No7220onthe6@aol.com or D4000Cruiser@aol.com
Regards,
T.Lo
Even the use of ultra low sulfur diesel doesn't necessarily mean cleaner air. The 5000 series RTS's assigned to 126th Street Depot which have the DD-50 engine and run on ultra low sulfur fuel still belch out considerable quantities of smoke upon accelerating from a standstill. In my opinion, NYCTA should invest heavily in Hybrid-Electric buses if they really want to make our air cleaner.
If they're belching out smoke from a standstill, there's something else wrong. I haven't seen visible exhaust on any NJT bus from the 1994 Metros on forward.
I have a Cummins myself (Dodge Ram 3500 pickup, hence the screen name), and the only time I can get smoke out of it is if I nail the accelerator when I first turn the key. At operating temperature, there is ZERO smoke.
Exactly! There is something really wrong with any bus that belches out thick black smoke like that. The 5000 series at HP for instance none of our buses operate in the fashion of the 5000 series at 126th Street. Well hopefully they will find a solution really soon.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
I hear you. But the 5000 series RTS's at 126th Street and the 4900 seroes RTS's at ENY have the exact same problem. The ones at HP, MTV, JAM do not have this thick black smoke that spews out from a stand still. I have always been curious about the 126th and ENY units because they are the worst. I have not seen any other 49 or 5000 series RTS do this. Maybe someone here can answer this one. Hybrids seem to be the future as you said and I agree they are impressive, but they still have some growing up to do.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
As I reported the other day, I rode 3771 (or whatever the correct number) on the M31 SB. This was outta 126th, which was weird in itself. Then, yesterday, I get on 18XX outta Hudson Pier, on the M16. This bus is an express bus. So what's up with these express buses on local routes. Also, I didn't think Hudson Pier had express buses. When were they switched there, and how many are there?
These buses were A/C, as far as I recall, so are they maybe putting these buses on regular routes, cause of the A/C and stuff? If so, I like it. They should put more on :)
These buses were A/C, as far as I recall, so are they maybe putting these buses on regular routes, cause of the A/C and stuff? If so, I like it. They should put more on :)
Isn't the entire NYCT fleet air conditioned?
lol... yeah right, I wish. You can always tell if the bus has A/C or not, by looking to see whether the windows are open or closed.
Technically, David is correct; all NYCT buses are air conditioned. This has been the case for some time. Save a few odd orders, I'm 95% sure that all NYC bus orders since the early 70s or so have been air conditioned.
Whether or not the a/c is working is another story, but my experiences with NYCT buses and climate control has generally been positive.
Every bus NYCT(A) has ordered, starting with the 682-bus 8000-series of 1966, has been air-conditioned. And (in response to Clark), as I've said here MANY, MANY times, open windows/hatches (especially in less-than-boiling-hot weather) are ABSOLUTELY NO INDICATION of whether the air-conditioning is working or not. Just last Thursday I was on an RTS on the M-15. It was a warm day and the AC was cranking, but almost every window in the bus was open. Later, I rode an artic on the M-23. The Operator had the climate control off (a violation), but the windows and hatches were closed.
David
Of course every bus since a long time ago had been ordered with A/c, but I was talking about the buses that have the A/C that is broken or doesn't work. Most of the times, a bus with open windows means that the A/C isn't working. That's just from my experiences....
perhaps the M23 you were on the other day, had the A/C break during revenue service, and the Bus Operator was told to keep the bus in service. That has happened to me on the M101.
Come out to Queens and compare the bus companies. The reliability of a/c on TA buses is excellent. A TA bus is not allowed to leave the depot without working a/c and doesn't. Naturally you can have a bus' a/c fail during its' work day. Sometimes Bus & SubTalkers forget that buses and trains are MACHINES that get lots of abuse over long hours of service. Gotta run the bus, gotta provide the service! I have ridden Queens Surface CNG Orions with a/c cranking and windows open. Why? Because some wimpy passengers are cold and don't like a/c. I got into it with one p**** last summer. Green Bus a/c reliability is not good and Triboro Coach a/c reliability on the RTS is absolutely atrocious. And the driver is stuck with the bus all day and has that tiny little side window for a "breeze." Qtraindash7 has well documented LI Bus a/c lack of reliability.
If you want to know if the A/C is working or not, just look at the right rear part of the RTS's, Orions & NewFlyers LF. There if a pipe just behind the wheel. If you see water coming out of it then the A/C is working. I don't know were this is on the MCT's or the Artic's.
Robert
Usually when the air conditioning "breaks," the evaporator/blowers remain on but blow hot air because the compressor/condensor has stopped functioning. This unit (on the M-23) was OFF. On NYCT buses, the climate control toggle switch has a red cover over it, meaning it is not normally to be touched.
David
A/c can be on or not, the oldsters and elderly open te windows becasue they complain it is too cold on the bus.
Here's an oddity. About two winters ago, I get on NYCT #5135 right behind my namesake school during the evening trip home (M101 local). The temp. had to be anywhere from the mid - thirties to mid forties. The driver tried to get the heat going, but for some reason cold air was blowing throughout the vents. I told him about this oddity, and he subseqently tried to fix it by switching the heater off and then back on at 125 and Lex. Nothing happened execpt for more cold air. At that point he and I just sighed and I got off for the subway.
And in Nassau county, open windows are quite common. Especially with the Cummins L10G units. They are very slow and stall alot. I notice that the N20/21 is 80% new Orions so I guess the L10G can't handle the hilly terrain.
[You can always tell if the bus has A/C or not, by looking to see if the windows are open or closed.]
The open-window test is a much better indicator of passenger behavior than of A/C. I've seen passengers insist on opening windows because "it's too hot in here" or "I need some air" even though the A/C was set on maximum.
The one you got on M16 was #1826. Hudson Pier have one other Soft Seater. #3964. A 1985 RTS. And the one you got on M31 was #3893. NOT #3771. And MTA is getting more MCI's. And there's a cause and Effect to this.
Cause: MTA is ordering MCI buses for X Routes.
Effect: The RTS Suburbans and Orion5 Suburbans are running on local routes.
BUT MTA is putting the SUBURBANS on Longer Local Routes.(Like Q46 for example.),Short Routes.(Like Q74 for example.),And Routes not many people use.(Like Q79 for example.)
I starting to see Orion Suburbans on Q74 everyday now. Q74 carrys alot of people. BUT with the Suburbans on Q74 Fewer people are standing. THe Orion Suburbans do show good use on Q74. NOW ONLY IF Q74 WOULD RUN ON WEEKENDS?
The bus on the M31 wasn't 3893, I posted it before, and someone corrected me with the right number. The 2nd and 3rd were identical numbers.
Also, since when have the suburbans been running on the Q46. And, how many are running? Last time I took it, in April, they were RTS', as far as I could tell. I guess I gotta out there and take the 46 again, and get on a suburban... can't wait :)
On the Pike AKA Union Tpke AKA Q46, you usually see a Suburban in the am rush. For the next 2 weeks runs 033-035 sometimes get a Suburban. In the afternoon, it varies. I had 627 on Monday on the Q46-run 040 had her. Great bus. If you want to catch a Suburban, your best bet would be either the Q75 or the Q79. 9 times out of 10 there's a Suburban there. Q17 is the other option but that's Jamaica Depot.
Here is a list of the Suburbans that are out of QV Depot:
1996 Orion Suburbans: 611-630
1997 Nova RTS Suburbans: 9286-9290, 9292-9294
1985 GMC RTS Suburbans: 3807, 3818, 3824
1982 GMC RTS Suburbans: 1751, 1767, 1773, 1852
Hope this helps you out.
Q46#627Gary
I saw a perfect example tonight on the M22.3964 heading towards Madison St.and 1826 heading towards Battery Pk.City.
Gracias!
You rode on # 3887. The two express buses currently assigned to 126th Street Depot are 3887 & 3893.
The 74 (then the 44VP) ran on saturdays (18 minute headways all day) till around 1990. It also ran till about 1245-1 AM each night. That was cut by an hour and a half or so.
The Q15,16 and 26 also ran at all times out of casey (then flushing).
Here in Detroit, DDOT has ten suburban NovaBUS RTSs (3290-3299) which are quite similar to those in NYC. These were purchased for use on two short-lived DDOT express routes which went way out to North Oakland County via I-75. The ridership on these routes was high and growing and the customers were very pleased with the equipment, but disagreements about sending city-funded buses 30 miles into suburbia put an end to these routes pretty quickly.
Now, the suburban RTSs are used when DDOT has to look good for suburbanites, such as on Auto Show shuttles. Also, it is possible to a 3290 turn up on a random local run. They tend to be used on lighter routesand also on overnight runs.
Do you have any photos of those Suburban RTS's that DDOT Have?
SUBTALK LIVE THIS SATURDAY
June 16, 2001
7:30 PM ETBusTalkers are welcome, too!SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
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PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POST
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Last night on the way home from Brooklyn at 5:30PM eastbound, just at the merge of the JRP & GCP. 4922 (from QV Depot) comes on to the GCP via the ramp from Queens Blvd/Union Tpke entrance. The route sign in back was blank and the destination sign was blank. He alternated between the right lane and middle lane. He was still E/B just past the on ramp from the Clearview when I got too far ahead to still see him.
I thought that buses were not permitted E/B on GCP during PM rush-hours. I have not ever seen a bus E/B at that time. Was he legal? Was he returning to QV or dead-heading somewhere?
I can't say where he was coming from (possibly a shuttle run off), but I've enclosed a copy of the NYCTA Parkway Permit below:
---------------------- BEGIN PERMIT -------------------------
Name: NYC TRANSIT AUTHORITY / SPECIAL OPERATION
Date(s): 24 HOURS A DAY / 7 DAYS A WEEK - AS NEEDED
License Plate(s): FLEET BUS
Valid on the following roadways:
[x]Pelham Parkway
[x]Mosholu Parkway
[x]Richmond Parkway
[x]Grand Central Parkway
[x]Hutchinson River Parkway
[x]Cross Island Parkway
[x]Bronx River Parkway
[x]Harlem River Drive
[x]Other: Henry Hudson Parkway
[x]Belt Parkway: except between Knapp Street & Rockaway Parkway limited to vehicles under 10,000 pounds (5 tons) fully loaded.
Restrictions/Conditions: COPIES OF THIS PERMIT VALID
Dated: October 8, 1999
Expires: September 1, 2000
Purpose: TO TRANSPORT PASSENGERS
This permit is subject to revocation if the applicant does not comply with all pertinent laws, rules, and regulations, including any conditions or restrictions imposed by the Bureau of Authorized Parking & Permits.
This permit must be displayed in the vehicle window or be held in the drivers posession. Upon request, driver shall present it to a Police Officer, Traffic Enforcement Agent, or other authorized person.
The permittee will assume all risk and must comply with all Federal, State and New York City laws and safety requirements. It is incumbent upon permittee to establish the clearance of all overpasses and egress ramps.
The Department of Transportation, by issuance of this permit, is not party to any contract of the permittee. This permit may be revoked by the Commissioner of the Department of Transportation for abuse.
Copies of this permit have been sent to the following agencies:
[x]Police
[x]DOT Enforcement
[ ]Other
********RENEWAL AND ATTACHMENT********
Dear Permittee:
Your permit to travel on New York City parkways has been extended through SEPTEMBER 30, 2001.
In order for this extension to be valid, you must display in each vehicle a copy of your original permit, anda copy of this letter.
Failure to do so invalidates this permit. Be advised that the extension contained herein should not be construed as an indication of any action that this Agency may take in
future application for renewal.
Note also that CURRENT PERMITS ARE NOT VALID ON:
[x]FDR DRIVE - Travel is governed on limited portions of the Drive by signage.
[x]OCEAN PARKWAY - Main Roadway.
[x]HENRY HUDSON PARKWAY / MILLER HIGHWAY - Coaches, full-size school buses and vehicles over 10 tons (20,000 lbs) MAY NOT USE:
57th Street to 72nd Street Northbound
79th Street to 57th Street Southbound
Check your current registrations for vehicle weight. Violators will be summonsed and face possible revocation of permits.
For Questions, please call (718) 555-1212
Sincerely,
Authorized Signature
cc:Deputy Chief NYPD Traffic Control
Inspector NYPD Highway District
Director NYPD Parking Enforcement
------------------------ END PERMIT --------------------------
As an aside, every NYCTA fleet bus carries a parkway permit and is equipped with EZ pass.
How much does a bus weigh and buses can not use the FDR Drive? I seen the Express buses use the FDR from 23rd St going south. Also, where is Miller Hwy?
Miller Highway is a 3800 foot elevated portion of the West Side Highway / Henry Hudson Parkway. Here are some other photos of Miller Highway.
As far as the weight of a NYC bus, I don't have the figures for anything other than the RTS, which is approximately 38,500 pounds "fully loaded".
The old West Side Highway, which ran from the Battery to 72nd Street, was alternatively known as the Miller Elevated Highway. Its northward extension to the city line is the Henry Hudson Parkway.
After a truck fell through the roadway in 1973, most of the old highway was torn down. The portion north of 57th Street remained and was extensively rehabilitated. (I remember riding in taxis on this portion of highway. It was "paved" in Belgian block.) Recent signage on the highway and at its southern end incorrectly deem it part of the Henry Hudson Parkway.
It is this roadway, the oldest elevated highway in NYC, that has weight limits.
I think there are clearence and maybe security issues north of 23rd Street going under the UN and Gracie mansion.
No buses can't go after 42th Street because of low clearence before and after 59th street exit & all buses must exit at 42th Street. Also buses can get on FDR Drive at 125th St to Washington Height. It not about security between UN & Gracie Mansion.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
It was most probably a Q46 run-off. There are no restrictions regarding buses using the parkway during rush hours.
Today on the front page of the SI Advance, there was an interesting story about the cessation of Academy Express Service on SI, which has been here for about 20 years.
This article talks about how this departure of Academy will effect SI. Academy operates North Shore Routes and South Shore Routes, that go via NJ. This stoppage is as a result of Academy losing the bid for the other 2 South Shore routes (the others besides the X 21/22 operated by MTA) to Atlantic Express. It discusses possible franchise violations, etc. It also shows how much time the Academy buses save by going via NJ. This stoppage takes effect 6/22/01 (if I am not mistaken.) Customers are upset since now they will have to take MTA buses that travel across the island and add more time by going through BKLYN. (Not really is this related to the few X17 & 31's that go via NJ.)
NYC plans to add 10 more runs each on the X17/19/31 next week and Atlantic to operate and pitch in eventually.
Now here is the interesting point. Mr. Hanley of the ATU suggests that NYC should take over those routes, for different reasons, including THE SURPLUS OF EXPRESS BUSES IN STORAGE (ie. Orions in Edgewater, and other stored Suburbans).
Personally, I am for this, as long as NYC orders more MCIs in the long run, and builds a third depot (either by the Outerbridge or Goethals, or by the SI Ferry.)
This is the article------------------
North Shore also facing bus nightmare
A 2-hour commute looms for hundreds of riders who had depended on Academy's Manhattan express service through New Jersey
06/14/01 Thursday
By MICHAEL WAGNER
ADVANCE STAFF WRITER
While everyone's attention has focused on getting South Shore express bus riders to work after Academy Bus Tours shuts down June 22, the plight of hundreds of North Shore commuters who also rely on Academy has gone unnoticed: They'll have absolutely no service once the company leaves and won't benefit at all from the four new South Shore routes scheduled to begin at the end of the summer.
Now, city officials are in a mad scramble for a contingency plan to fill the void after the Hoboken, N.J.-based company calls it quits. Involved in the talks are city transportation officials, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) and Atlantic Express -- the Port Richmond-based company that won a city contract to operate two new South Shore routes, and will receive millions in state subsidies in the bargain.
"Everyone's always talking about people on the South Shore, but we're suffering, too," said Susan Hernandez of Mariners Harbor, who takes Academy's Forest Avenue bus to Midtown, a trip that takes less than an hour. "It's not like we have a whole lot of options."
Without Academy, North Shore commuters in and around Mariners Harbor and Bulls Head are facing a two-hour minimum one-way commute. They can either take a local bus to the ferry or use the 10X, 11X or 12X -- severely overcrowded routes that meander across the Island, through Brooklyn and up lower Manhattan to Midtown.
Now, only Academy, Atlantic Express (from its park-and-ride facility in Travis) and some 17X buses travel to Midtown through the much faster New Jersey route -- via the New Jersey Turnpike and the Lincoln Tunnel's bus-only lane -- a trip that takes about 45 minutes.
Bothered by how the Academy withdrawal unfolded, North Shore City Councilman Jerome X. O'Donovan, the Democratic candidate for borough president, has scheduled a hearing for June 27 to grill city officials who put the South Shore bus deal together. He wants to know how it was done and why the city Economic Development Corp. (EDC) was chosen to facilitate the process.
O'Donovan said he is also considering a lawsuit against the city for circumnavigating its own franchise laws, which require an open process, public hearings, competitive bidding and City Council approval. Although the South Shore service is being called a contract agreement, O'Donovan said it has all the markings of a franchise -- specified routes on city streets operated by a private company, under the city Department of Transportation's (DOT) supervision.
O'Donovan said the South Shore service, a politically charged deal he and other critics claim was designed to give a private bus company full reign over the South Shore market, should be provided by the MTA alone. Other politicians, including Borough President Guy V. Molinari and Rep. Vito Fossella (R-Staten Island), agreed, but said that, given the MTA's refusal to grant four new routes, an argument allegedly based on the physical constraints of the Island's bus system, they settled on two private routes and two to be run by the MTA.
Meanwhile, most of the contingency plan details are still under wraps, but sources said relief is mostly aimed at the South Shore, not the North Shore.
Sources said Transit was recently toying with the idea of running the 10X and 12X over the Goethals Bridge through New Jersey, but an agency spokeswoman said that was never on the drawing board.
"We've been pleading with them to run buses through Jersey for years," said Larry Hanley, president of the Amalgamated Transit Union, Local 726, which represents the Island's bus drivers and mechanics. "If they wanted to, they could do it any day now.
"The thing is, do they want to do it?" he asked.
Hanley said Transit has been running its "dead-heads," or empty return trips, to and from Manhattan through New Jersey for the last six weeks (to avoid the counter-flow lane in the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel and the risk of head-on collisions), a decision that was made and implemented virtually overnight.
By not changing the routes, several commuters say the MTA has them trapped, with no other option than to travel the entire width of the borough on some of the Island's most congested arteries, even though they're so close to New Jersey.
"The folks on the North Shore do have a continuous, never-ending commute," said O'Donovan. "And when Academy pulls out, it will affect the people on the North Shore. People will have to change their lifestyles, their work habits. It's an outrage and one that should have never happened."
The Academy withdrawal came on the heels of the EDC's decision to select Atlantic Express -- its main competitor -- to run the two new South Shore routes. Disappointed and concerned it would be unable to compete without operating subsidies, Academy announced on Monday that it was terminating its 20 years of service on Staten Island.
What is not clear is why the pull-out caught the city off-guard. Melanie McEvoy, a spokeswoman for Academy, said the company told EDC more than a month ago it would have no choice but to leave Staten Island if it lost the South Shore bid. An EDC spokeswoman said her agency just started thinking about contingency plans when Academy made its announcement on Monday.
"It was not Academy's position to pull out at the last minute," Ms. McEvoy said. The subsidies "have been an ongoing discussion for over three years now. This was not something that was any kind of surprise. Academy was very up-front while working this through."
The company's dialogue with riders, though, seemed less straightforward.
"We have tried repeatedly to get information from the company so we could prepare ourselves, and we were always told the South Shore issue will not affect the North Shore riders," said Debra Masterpalo, another North Shore rider. "Well, that was certainly a lie."
As for what will happen after the 22nd, most of the details are still unknown. The MTA will add 10 buses to its 17X, 19X and 31X routes to absorb some of the Academy riders. An Atlantic Express spokesman said the company is prepared to run some buses on a cash-fare basis starting June 25, with more extensive service by the first week of July.
That service, though, is contingent on whether they get some operating money to do it, and that's still undecided, officials said.
"We're reviewing some options that will significantly help compensate for the loss of service," said Tom Cocola, a spokesman for the city DOT, which is leading the negotiations. "As we cross the t's and dot the i's, we'll share that information with you."
Despite the mad dash to find more subsidy money, sources inside the MTA said the agency and, specifically, the Staten Island bus division, has enough storage capacity, buses and drivers to take over every one of Academy's 13 abandoned routes if directed to do so.
"They have buses laying around collecting dust, and drivers on the payroll," said Hanley. "If the governor wants there to be no disruption in service, the MTA could be out there immediately."
In the meantime, riders are still irritated about being kept in the dark, and many dinnertime conversations revolve around how people will get to work.
Asked how they feel about Academy's sudden withdrawal and what they'll do to get to work, riders yesterday were left speechless.
"Good question. I don't know," said Phil Macchiaverna of West Brighton. "This was done too quickly."
Queens Surface RTS #321 was headed south on Park Ave South at 28 St this morning; the destination sign just said "QUEENS SURFACE" and the run # was set to XXXX. A coworker said he saw the same bus parked nearby; the destination had changed to "SPECIAL." Charter run?
Well.
Last Mouth. I saw #389 running on QM1A going to Wall St. Saw it at Union Turnpike and Main St. And also on a Sunday back a few mouths ago. RTS #329 was saw running on QM1A going to LIJ. Saw it while I was on a RTS #629 on Q60 at 75 Ave and Queens Blvd. On weekends. QM1 and QM1A mainly run 500 Series CNG Orion5 Suburbans's. Also I have seen a bunch of 400 Series Orion5 Transit's on QM1 and QM1A. As well as QM2.
QM1A TMC RTS#329
QM1A TMC RTS#389
QM1A Orion5 #400
QM1 Orion5 #401
QM2 Oiron5 #402
Triboro Coach Corp and Green Lines have RTS on Express Lines more often than QSC. QSC usually uses 400 Locals on their Express Lines. A few weeks ago I rode 468 on QM1.
However, It's not that unusual to see a TMC RTS on an Express Route. I saw 347 on the QM1 on Monday. Usually at the heart of the rush, you'll see a few TMC's on the Express Lines. In fact last Sunday I saw 364 on the QM2 on the LIE East at GCP.
QM1#384Gary
QM1A#468Gary
QM18#1177Gary
QM12#678Gary
I saw that same bus too. Saw it turning on to Queens Blvd from Kew Gardens Road at 1:14 PM. Saw it while I was on Orion5 #5515 on Q60. I saw that the side sign says "SPECIAL" And the Window next to there was a poster saying "Voice@Work". And a White Van was following it and it also have the poster but it was in the back window of the white van.
I got a question on the RIPTA Flex Service. What Buses do run on hte RIPTA Flex Service? The 9900 Series Novas? And also what is RIPTA E-Mail Adress? I have been trying to look for the RIPTA E-Mail Adress and it's not on RIPTA website.
I believe the 9900s are used for Flex service; I don't know if that's the only work they see, or if they are the only buses used for Flex routes.
You can use the Contact RIPTA form on the RIPTA site or e-mail mmoan@ripta.com
I have ridden the S79 many times to and from Brooklyn and the SI Mall. Often, it is Standing Room Only (SRO). I know they do not want to give SI artics, but there is a need for some on the S79. Either add buses to the route or make it articulated. (The S79's route is relatively falt, with no big hills. [Richmond Avenue & Hylan Blvd].)
Maybe testing to come.
Write a letter to Butch Seay - 370 Jay street, room 1315. You're not gonna get any help here.
Does anybody know what bus route the Coliseum Depot operated before it closed in 1995? Also, before the Queens Village Depot opened in 1975, Queens had the only the Flushing and Jamaica Depots? Which depot was operating all the NOW QV routes (Q1, Q2, Q30 (Q17A), Q31, Q36, Q43, Q46 (Q44A), Q75, Q79 (Q12A), Q83 (Q3A) and Q88
Queens Village opened in September 1974. The routes came as follows:
FLUSHING-Q-12A,Q-31,Q-44A
JAMAICA-Q-1,Q-2,Q-3A,Q-17A,Q-36,Q-43,Q-75,X-68
The Q-88 was created at the same time as Queens Village opened
Coliseuam Depot I believe had the following routes when it was closed:
Bx4,Bx5,Bx6,Bx11,Bx17,Bx19,Bx21,Bx27,Bx32,Bx33,Bx35,Bx36
I am positive about the Queens Village information and about 99% correct on the Coliseuam information
Thank You
No Barry, Thank you. Do you know what bus routes were at the Edgewater Depot before it burned down in 1978? After that, did Castleton take in ALL the SI routes until Yukon was built in 1981?
Ray Clendenin
www.transitalk.com
Ray,Edgewater did not burn down in 1978. It remained open until Fall 1981 when Yukon was opened. It was then closed and used for storage until 1983 or 84(I believe) when it was reopened as an operating depot for some express routes. It was closed because it then had a fire but can not give you an exact date.
Also i am not sure which routes were assigned to Edgewater but i believe the S-2,S-101,S-103,S-104,S-109,S-113,S-115,x-9,x-11,X-13,x-17,x-18 and x-20 were assigned there. Those were the route numbers then. The current ones are S-51(S-2),S-42(S-101),S-78(S-103),S-52(S-104),S-76(S-117),X1 to X-9(x-9,11,13). The S-109 and S-115 were discontinued(S-55 and S-56 replaced part of the S-115) and the X-17,18 and 20 are all current routes.
When the depot was reopened the X-12,15,18 and 20 were assigned there.
This is the best i could recall and i am not a 100% certin
Thank You
Where was the old Kingsbridge Bus Depot at and the Gun Hill Depot opened in 1989 for the first time, right?
Ray Clendenin
www.transitalk.com
Old Kingsbridge Depot is right on the same spot where new kingsbridge Depot is. Old Kingsbridge Depot close at the same time when new Gun Hill Depot open in 1989.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
The OLD KB Depot operate the same routes?
Ray Clendenin
I may be too young to speculate on this, but I think that Coliseum also split with CS (Flushing) the Q44 route when it closed.
I am pretty sure Q44 was always operated out of Queens depots, never any in The Bronx. While most of Q-44's life has been as a Stengel/Flushing route, I recollect sometime in the past when it was a split Stengel-Jamaica route.
It seems the Q44 was quite a large route in its heyday. What happened?
It still is quite a large route. Most of today's Q20 (A and B) is really part of the Q44.
[It seems the Q44 was quite a large route in its heyday. What happened?]
About two years ago, the Q44 and the old Q20 (formerly Q44FS) were restructured into a three-branched route which the drivers pick as "Q4420." The Bronx (Q44) component is pretty much the same as it always was, except that it operates Limited in Queens during most of the day. The College Point components (Q20A and Q20B) are a combination of the old Q20 with the former Q44 Whitestone short trips. The major routing changes were in Briarwood (using Queens Blvd. instead of 150th Street) and in College Point (Q20A on 20th Avenue to serve all the stores).
By Queens standards, the "Q4420" is still a very large route; it has 88 runs on weekdays, 77 on Saturdays, and 66 on Sundays. Some runs have only Q44 work, some have only Q20A/B work, and some have bits of each.
Along with the Union Tpke branch (Q44A, now Q46), there had to have been quite a large selection of buses serivicing some version of the 44. And the confusion that came along with it.
I remember that! The Q44, Q44A, Q44B (Whitestone LOOP), Q44FS and Q44VP.
Ray
[Along with the Union Tpke branch (Q44A, now Q46),....]
Hold on right there. A little history lesson is in order:
Most of the Queens "suffix" routes were NOT branches of their non-suffix counterparts. (The Q44 and Q44A didn't share any stops; they had only a transfer point in common.) The suffixes were added by the private companies as a sneaky way to start entirely new routes (e.g. along Union Turnpike) under prior franchises (e.g. Main Street). In fact, only one really WAS a branch - Q5AB, the Bedell Street branch of the Q5A (which was NOT a branch of the Q5!).
The only remaining "franchise-piggyback" suffixes of which I am aware are the Q19A, Q19B, Q65A, QM1A, QM2A in Queens, plus the BxM7A (Throgs Neck), BxM7B (City Island), and BxM4C (a Westchester DOT route which was created as a piggyback on Liberty Lines' BxM4A/4B franchise).
The same can be said about the Q20A & Q20B(The Q20 still exsist as the short local trips between College Pt.or Jamaica to Flushing).
The only time I see a bus designated as a plain Q20 are the school shuttles between the Flushing subway and John Bowne HS. If there are runs on the 20 franchise that terminate in Flushing originating either from College Point or Jamaica, I've never seen any. Every now and then I see a 44 coming from the Bronx with a Flushing destination.
It was around early 1990 when TA routes in Queens were renumbered to eliminate letters at the end. The old Q44FS, which represents the upper half of todays Q20B, became the 20. Likewise, the 44VP became the 74, and the 44A the 46. The Malba Shuttle was renumbered from Q44B to Q71, but was eliminated before the new number could be used. The peak-hour Rosedale shuttle ran as the Q86 (previously 5S) for a while before it was eliminated. There may have been a number set aside for the defunct Laurelton shuttle (previously Q5AS), but it apparently suffered the same stillbirth as the 71.
Many routes from ENY and FP, Brooklyn divisions (even though FP is located in Queens!) that run mostly or entirely in Queens, were given Q prefixes. Where possible, the original Brooklyn numbers were kept, as in the 55, 56, 58 and 59. The Q24 and 54 designations replaced the B22 and 53 respectively, as there already were a Q22 and 53.
Interestingly, back in the forties and fifties, there was a hybrid 17/20 route (similar to QS' later 25/34) run by the TA that may have combined what is today the 25 from College Point to Flushing and the 17 from Flushing to Jamaica. I'm not 100% on this; would have to check my 1977 Motor Coach magazine, which gives an excellent history on TA bus operations in Queens. Either way, the use of the number 20 for a College Point service is a nod back to history.
The privates still hold onto letter suffixes: the 9A, 10A, 19A, 19B, 22A and 65A. Maybe there aren't enough two-digit numbers left to give new designations to these routes, or the DOT (or the individual companies) don't want to be bothered- maybe too expensive, confusing.
For the record, the 49, 50, 51, 52, 57, 61, 62, 70, 71, 73, 78, 80, 81, 86, 87, 89 and all the nineties are available. The 52, 57 and 61 might be unusable due to the brief presence in Queens of Brooklyn routes with those numbers.
[The privates still hold on to letter suffixes: 9A, 10A, 19A, 19B, 22A, 65A. Maybe there aren't enough two-digit numbers left to give new designations to these routes....]
There just might be enough two-digit numbers. I'm reminded of my one ride on the Q19B - the magnetic paper transfer was marked Q52!! Maybe some of DOT's suffix routes are franchised under non-suffixed numbers.
Also, the Q9A and Q22A are relatively new (less than 10 years old). They're also relatively useless: The Q9A runs middays only on a 60-minute headway and avoids any subway connections. The Q22A is a school-day-only loop route in Far Rockaway; it has only two round trips (one AM, one PM), and seems to exist only to link with the Q22 at the Mott Avenue subway station.
However,the 49,89 and 99 have been used already and 50 is suppose to be the route # for the QBX1 if QS loses the route to the TA(it would operate out of CS).
I remember the Q49, Q89 and the Q99. The Q49 was the best because it run from 168th St to 121st St via Jamaica Av. It was from the Jamaica Depot because in 1986 I remember buses 4556, 4562, 4586 and 4595 on the Q49. That was the first time a bus from the Jamaica Depot has gone that far west to near Brooklyn. The Q89 was from what Depot? I know it was not from Fresh Pond or East New York because of the "Q". Maybe from the Flushing (Casey Stengel) Depot? The Q99 brought back memories of the days that the Q4, Q4A, Q5, Q5A, Q5AB and Q42 buses use to terminate on Hillside Av. The Q99 went down 88th Av to 170th St and followed to Q17 to Archer Av and then went to Archer Av and 150th St. It did not last long because of low ridership.
Ray
The Q89 ran until 1990 and was an oddity.It ran out of FFS(54th St.)and was a MaBSTOA route.It ran from Grand Ave & Queens Bl.to 81st/Northern.It was originally known as the 16 when operated for the 5th Ave Coach Corp.and with thatroute # until they changed the Manhattan Bus routes in the mid-late 70's/early 80's.Also it had a headway of 40 minutes.
It ran from FFS? That made no since! FFS Depot was on FFS and 11th Av?
Ray
The 16/Q89 was sort of a shuttle. The reason why it was a MaBSTOA route and ran out of 54 St. was because it used buses that ran on the Q32 (formerly the 15 then M32) which both routes joined together at 82 St. & Roosevelt.
It ran from FFS? That made no since! FFS Depot was on FFS and 11th Av?
9th Avenue.
"50 is suppose to be the route # for the QBX1 if QS loses the route to the TA(it would operate out of CS)."
Is this strictly conjecture, or is it being seriously considered? I know there's more bidding for the DOT franchised routes in the offing, but there has been in the past and nothing's come of it. The last time I remember the TA taking over a private route is the old Avenue B routes (M8 and 9, and only the 9 still exists) when that company folded. It was sometime in the mid-to-late seventies, right?
It would make sense if the Q50 ran out of Stengel and covered the current QBX1 route from downtown Flushing to Pelham Bay (although QS owns turf rights to Linden Place). One of my pet peeves is how the QBX1 seems to operate primarily as a loop shuttle between Pelham Bay and Co-op City. This is very evident when you're trying to get from Pelham to Queens and there's a continuous parade of shuttles. Sometimes the Flushing-bound bus has the wrong signs on, or is loading in the stop designated for Co-op.
The TA should run a separate route out of Gun Hill between Pelham and Co-op OR extend the BX29 so it serves all sections. Right now the 29 originates at the shopping center, and connects only Sections 1 and 5 to Pelham. Most Co-op subway riders would prefer to go to Pelham, which is much closer AND the first stop, rather than to Gun Hill/Seymour, where most other TA routes out of Co-op go.
This would also mean there would no longer QS buses headed empty out the garage to Pelham Bay to go into service at shuttles. Whenever there's trouble on the Whitestone Bridge, mobs are left waiting at Pelham for Co-op shuttles that never come. As mentioned above, the BX29 is not a viable option for Sections 2, 3 and 4.
It doesn't seem like many people ride the QBX1 straight through from Flushing to Co-op; there's often a complete turnover at Pelham.
I once saw a Q32 signed up as Q50. The sign was identical to that of Q32, but Q50 was in the place of Q32. BTW, this was back when all Q32 buses ran from HP.
You are correct. At one time due to the reconstruction of the Queensboro Bridge the TA proposed that alternate Q-32 buses will terminate at the 21st Street/Queensbridge Station and you can transfer to the subway(this was prior to free subway/bus transfers)
The proposed service was to be called the Q-50 and was to be assigned to Stengel Depot.
The plan was never implemented due to community opposition and what happened was that the Q-32 was split between Hudson(OA) and Stengel(TA) beginning in March 1995.
Thank You
[Is this strictly conjecture, or ...]
Probally just wishful thinking on someones part.
P.S. Wednesday I was on my way to Shoreline Museum at Branford, CT & was making a pickup of a friend at the end of the #6 (easy off/on from 95). There was one of our coaches parked & a "white" shirt in his jeep reading the paper. I stopped by the car & said "Hi Gene !" boy was he surprised.
Mr t__:^)
As a longtime Co-Op City resident (31 years) and a daily rider of the QBx1 to/from Pelham Bay I can tell you that the community would fight any change to the QBx1 service unless viable service was substituted.
We (as a community) are fighting with the TA as it is. They want to reduce Bx28 service into Section 5 by having alternate buses terminate inside Bay Plaza (probably by JC Penney). They are on our Sxxx list for cutting back on the western terminal of the Bx 26 (from Fordham Rd to Bedford Park). The Allerton Avenue community wasn't happy about that one either.
They have already modified the Bx 29 to cut through Bay Plaza and terminate at Bartow Av and CC Blvd instead of at Bartow and Baychester Avs (a loss of 3 stops).
At one time the community fought (and won, I might add) a proposal to extend the Bx 26 from Section 5 to Pelham Bay Park.
By the way, Thurston, the Bx 29 connects sections 4 and 5 not 1 and 5.
Section 1 is over by Dreiser Loop (the "D" named streets). Section 2 is the "C" named streets. Section 3 is the "B" named streets. Section 4 is the "A" named streets (I am in this section). Section 5 is the "E" named streets (plus Hutchinson River Parkway E and Hunter and Boller Avs). Why did they do it that way? I have no idea.
Gee, this is the first time I posted in BusTalk. I wonder if it is sacriligious for a Train Buff to do that?
"Gee, this is the first time I posted in BusTalk. I wonder if it is sacriligious for a Train Buff to do that?"
No it isn't.
As for Co - Op City, one of the things you people need to do up there is to get the #6 extended from Pelham Bay into Bay Plaza, so you won't have to deal with the aggravation of what bus goes to what section (I've gone to the Plaza a few times, and I know how it feels.)
And another thing: Did the OA cut service on the Bx 26 from Fordham to Lehman Col. just to get the Bx 25 LTD going? Fill me in on that situation.
>>As for Co - Op City, one of the things you people need to do up there is to get the #6 extended from Pelham Bay into Bay Plaza, so you won't have to deal with the aggravation of what bus goes to what section (I've gone to the Plaza a few times, and I know how it feels.) <<
That has been talked about since before Co-op City was being built in the 1960's. As you can see - it was all talk.
>>And another thing: Did the OA cut service on the Bx 26 from Fordham to Lehman Col. just to get the Bx 25 LTD going? Fill me in on that situation. <<
There always was a rush hour "express" Bx26 that ran from Section 5, Asch Loop and out to Bartow Av to continue along the regular route. All they did was give it a different route number. Someone in the TA planning must have felt we had too much service to Fordham Rd so they cut it back.
Only two buses through from Coop City to Fordham, and both of which are packed by the time they make it on to their respective routes, and there is still too much service???
Oh yeah, we're dealing with the MTA here.
As a sidebar, I heard an off duty B/O on the Bx22 a few years back say that they should put the D60 articulateds on the 28 as well, since runs to and from Gun Hill Rd. consist of buses that burst at the seams frequently. Only once in a while (like yesterday afternoon) did brass take his advice.
Allan, my friend, nice to here from you here !
As you may know I don't work in the Transportation Dept., but knew they were going to make some changes on the QBX1 in an attempt to improve service.
Mr t__:^)
1,how lonng does it take to repower a bus complely?
2.Does repower engines also change the apperance of the exterior and interior?
3.Does repower also mean to put new parts such as a turbocharger or
muffler.
thank you
Patkylekenny
NYCT Department of Buses has a newsletter. One or two issues or two ago contained a large article on the repowering program. Call 888-NYCT-BUS and see if there are any extra copies.
David
My friend showed me a picture of a Flexible "New Look" bus and on the left side under the driver's window is a shield that looks like it came from the FDNY. Also, there is a patch on the bus that describes which bus depot it came from. I could not tell what is. It looks like a circle with a dot in the middle. The same patch was located on the buses on the Bx26, Bx41 and Bx55. Now, if the Bx26 was with the OLD Kingsbridge Depot please somebody tell me. Thank you?
While on a driving lesson with ex Bee Line RTS 133, I noticed a brand new Gillig in the new ST livery of yellow and while. She passed by going in the opposite direction, so I could only tell that it was the usual SWB model. That's the only new Gillig that I have seen thus far. The new Orions and the older Gilligs continue to be more popular. Sometimes I see the SWB Flxibes on the S58, but that's it.
While on a driving lesson with ex Bee Line RTS 133, I noticed a brand new Gillig in the new ST livery of yellow and while. She passed by going in the opposite direction, so I could only tell that it was the usual SWB model. That's the only new Gillig that I have seen thus far. The new Orions and the older Gilligs continue to be more popular.
How do you like learning to drive a converted slope-back ? What is the brand of retrofit on the slope to convert it to a straight-back?
What was the fleet number of the Gillig? Some of the older ST Gilligs got repainted. I've seen a few 9600's. If you were on or near the LIE that might have been 1 of about 6 new Suburban Gilligs that ST operates on the S110 Suffolk Clipper express shuttle, buses 2000-2005.
Are the 2000 Series Gilligs are 40 Foots and have 1 Door just in the Front?
I'm not certain about the length, might be 35 Ft. About the doors, you know I've never actually noticed because I'm always heading in the opposite direction. I will try to check it out on Monday when they resume service. BTW, they do have highback seats.
I guess running the suburbans will cost the county less than paying Harran to run OTR Prevosts on the same route for the $1.50 fare. According to local news reports the buses are more than 1/2 empty at all times.
On my way home today, 2005 passed me in the HOV lane going in the same direction as I was going. I finally got to see the passenger side and noticed that the ST Suburbans have only a front door. As far as the amount of passengers, it does look as though the buses are never at capacity. For $1.50 fare, I would ride them myself but they dont take me close enough where I need to go, in both directions.
Does anyone know if those commuter spec American Eagle buses are still running on NJT?
No. They have all been retired.
NJT's new batch of D4000's replaced them. The 5xxx and 6xxx series MCI's are next to go.
In case anyone needs a reminder, the NJT Bus Roadeo is tomorrow (06.16.01) at Howell Garage in Monmouth County. The garage is located on US 9, and can be reached via the 67 or 139 buses.
Bad news. The New Flyer order is now set to begin in the early fall of 2001. Therefore, any chance of seeing one of these new buses at this year's Roadeo is no more.
But please, webmasters, take pics of whatever other buses there are at the Vet and share them!! I'm really glum that I won't be in town for it this year.
like i sad acouple a week ago in a posting at bustalk
i sad it was delay fo 9/1/01
Im heading to bus fest to see buses and take photos of buses Is anyone else heading to bus fest?
i'll be there. will buy a camera by the time the event occurs. hope to see u all there 7/4/01.
I hope to go; see you all there if so. Maybe I'll bring sone bus models along!
-Fred
Definately Fred go-i would want to meet u though.
Hopefully all B-t'ers can arrange a time to meet and greet on 7/4/01. Let's hope for a nice sunny day unlike 1999.
i'm up for that-even my sister is going to this festival-hey fred-maybe we can meet up there andf correct our "situation"-lets all email each other to meet.
pingu45@aol.com-thats my email address.
I'll be there....maybe this year I'll actually arive by bus instead of train. See all of you there!
I have a quick set of questions about the Suffolk 30' Flx Metros:
-Do they have wraparound or LED taillights?
-Do they have Alcoa aluminum or grey steel wheels?
-Do they have a fully black destination sign area with wraparound blue stripe just behind the sign, a la the Orion Vs?
-What are the fleet numbers for these buses?
I need to know these facts as I may be making a model of one soon; thanks for any help!
-F.
u may have to go to www.suffolkbus.com-they may have apicture of it.
Are you shure? I can't find it. Where is it?
The website address is http://129.49.33.85
They still have buses in the old livery. This is even after I sent an e-mail to and got a response from County Executive Robert Gaffney's office.
The site is for schedules and routes. They don't even tell you which contract carrier is providing service on a particular route. Therefore I doubt this site will be too helpful.
I went there; all I saw was the Orion. Anyone have good pics of the ST Flxes?
-Fred
You have to go back to past BUS WORLD Magazines. I don't know which one off hand has it, but there are 2 pics of this model.
I got a Question on the SEPTA DayPass. I know I have to show the pass to the B/O. BUT do I have to put 40 Cents into the Fare Box or I don't have to put 40 Cents into the Farebox? And also do the DayPass do cost $5.00?
Thanks.
Yes, it is 5 dollars but it isn't good on all routes at all times. Where did you get this 40 cent thing from?
What Route is not good on at all times? Can I use it on C,23,and 48? And in the Fare page on SEPTA's website. I think it says that with a Pass that you pay 40 Cents I think.
That's the Cross County Pass you're thinking of. It's a monthly pass which entitles the rider to ride all suburban bus and regional rail lines (except to the Center City zoned stations - Temple, North Broad, North Philadelphia, 30 St, Suburban, Market East, and University City). If you were to use a Cross County Pass on the Broad Street Subway, for example, you'd have to pay an extra 40 cents.
The DayPass is only valid on City Transit bus, subway, and trackless routes, as well as for a one-way Regional Rail trip that same day. You can't use a DayPass on the Red Arrow or Frontier routes.
SUBTALK LIVE THIS EVENING
June 16, 2001
7:30 PM ETBusTalkers are welcome, too!SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
As in any Internet forum or chatroom, certain polices and rules need to be created and enforced. SubTalk Live is no exception. The following policies are in effect at all times in the chatroom or when making posts on SubTalk and BusTalk pertaining to the chat:
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I got Photos of #5401 and it's on this Photo page that I put up. And is #5401 is comming to the SEPTA Roadeo? Well here's the link to the photos of #5401.
Click Here to see photos of #5401.>
Sorry if that link don't work. Try this link.
OOPS!! I forgot. Sorry about that.
Click Here to see Photos of #5401.>
WHAT LINK?
Did you read the post after I did that Mistake? The Link was to be there. I did a Mistake.
Saw #9287 on X68 Last Night. This was the first time in 1 Year that I saw a Nova Sububran on X68 and that was the first time QV put a Nova on X68 since Last Year.
X68 Nova RTS#9287
Someone (maybe me) erroneously reported that 9295 was at QV as well. Well, I spotted that ex-UP suburban on the B67 on Monday. Oddly enough, I have yet to see 9295-9317 with Gleason logos. They all have their UP stickers still intact. Either JG has run out of logos or those buses will be returned to UP or they'll be headed elsewhere. Stay tuned.
Mark
Mayb 9295 was a typo for 9285 cause 9285 is at Jamaica. Saw her on X63 Recently.
X63#9285Gary
Last week i saw #9308 on B67 at Atlantic Ave while heading to MTA Headquarter. I been seeing more 92xx-93xx express buses running local in Brooklyn also i saw 3895 on M101 last saturday afternoon while i was ridecheck on M100. BTW: some depots are short of buses & that why they using express buses to run on local.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
I saw 9294 on the Q46 Saturday afternoon.
I haven't been to the city in a long time, so could you tell me what the Nova bus looks like? I saw a picture of a demo in NYCT livery, but it may not be the same one.
Yep. That's right!! QV is getting more Orions. There are #146-#148,and #153. And I think those are Repowered Orions. Since idk if there where repowered or not. It's sitting in QV waiting for QV Logos to go on to the bus. And should be in service by Sometime Next Week.
And I don't want to tell where I got it from.
You can see those Orions sitting on BO Track 9 as they await maintenance (on 97th Avenue, 2/3 the way towards the QV entrance). At this time they still have Stengel logos.
They've been here since (at least) Thursday, June 14th.
FOUR Orions, hmmm? Guess who's leaving.....
So they getting the QV Logos? And are those from Edgewater Yard?
Why would they have Stengel logos?
Only #146 ran at Stengel. #147, 148 and 153 never did.
Does that mean my sighting of PA 1767 this thursday was (Sniff) the last?
Gee - same thing happened at the same intersection with 1740 in Jamaica - 2 days later she was gone.
Want to lose your 1700's? run them by the corner of 188st and the LIE and then let me stand there and see them!
flx7595
Looks like North Queens is going to get confusing if they run them on the Q31 being that bus shares it route with the 27,13 and 28 .
How can you not tell if an Orion has been repowered? They have an exhaust pipe sticking out of their upper left corner of their rears. They sound a little different, also.
BTW, you can add to the Orion list at QV--#144. I spotted that bus myself on the Q30 Monday afternoon.
Mark
Ex-Castleton Orion #147 was in service on the LIRR shuttle last night. An emergency send-out, this bus was placed into service without a farebox, run-ID box, and working radio. 2 fresh "QV" logos were slapped sloppily onto the previous garage logos, and the bus was sent out.
250 buses in that depot and that's what the yard man sends out?
They want only "Late model coaches" for the Long Island Railroad shuttle. From QV anyway.
Apparently, JAM and QV are operating the LIRR Shuttle. QV seems to only operate the six 1993 Orion V coaches (144-148, 153) that they recently received from Staten Island along with their older GMC coaches. Meanwhile, JAM seems to put anything out there, as 4351 was spotted at the LIRR's QV Station along with QV's 1852. QV Orion 147 was seen on Archer Avenue also operating on the shuttle.
Mark
Is it possible that QV could be getting the Orions stored at the Edgewater yard?
Ray
It seems that way and I wouldn't be surprised if they or CS got some of the 1993 Orions when MCH gets there order of Orion VII's in
SUBTALK LIVE IN SESSION
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BusTalkers are welcome, too!SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
As in any Internet forum or chatroom, certain polices and rules need to be created and enforced. SubTalk Live is no exception. The following policies are in effect at all times in the chatroom or when making posts on SubTalk and BusTalk pertaining to the chat:
ANY public transit related topic can be discussed (bus, subway, or railroad).
It is requested that you use your handle as your chat nickname.
OPs will be the sole people in the chat to deem a topic off subject and are the only people who can make announcements on SubTalk and BusTalk pertaining to the opening, closing, delay, cancellation, postponement, software, server, or technical difficulties with the chat. When in doubt over what you are about to do, don't do it! If you have a problem with any of the above issues, e-mail an operator. Please do not post on SubTalk or BusTalk! This also applies to responding to this message. Do not respond to this message unless you are posting a question relevant to SubTalk Live. Do not post announcements pertaining to the chat.
Anyone who disrupts the chat in any way (scrolling, profanity, obscene remarks, constant chatting off-topic, or any of the above) will be punted and/or banned from SubTalk Live with or without warning.ARE YOU READY TO SUBTALK LIVE???
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I would like to have you for dinner :)
Im just joking
This will be my last post in bustalk because buses are stinky, boring, and common. However I will go see bus fest to see old buses and new ones.
Got a job with the TA, did ya?
:-)
I don't think the TA hires 5 year-olds.
Im 12 years old not a 5 year old! You must be dumb right?
I don't care how many complete revolutions the home planet has made around the central star since the day you became an independent organism.
My asessment of age was based on degree of mental development.
I can understand if you don't understand the above.
That sure is an ironic statement from someone who seems to enjoy buses as much as we all do. What changed your mind?
there sometimes my favorite.
AIGHT! Peace Out!
Paz, Adiós!
Paix, Au revoir!
Frieden, Tschüß!
However, you'll be back, once a bus fan always a bus fan!!!!!!! Remember that when you get on a bus and you start twitching and wiggling in your seat becuase you can't shake the feeling of fanism!
BUH BYE!
Trevor Logan
I will use bustalk sometimes.
Are you comming back? And are you still going to be at the SubTalk Live every Saturday Night still?
American pig banned me from subtalk live (I wish he would be dead)
American pig banned me from subtalk live (I wish he would be dead)
I've reported you to my ISP.
I've reported you to my ISP.
Excuse me, your ISP.
Is this a threat?
You were the one who threatened me, I am the one who is reporting you.
Sorry Besides Chats cause troble.
Please Leave me alone!
Can we please keep this kind of child garbage off this ,,,and I am not 12 ,or 5 years old
This is a Transportation group,not an "I m telling on you ,mommy " group
Steve
FDNY Operations
Nobody is forcing you to read the messages in this thread.
Lets not talk about this.
Apart from the usual un air conditioned and 10-15 minutes late buses the ride home today from Flushing was a nightmere!
I get to Flushing at 6:40pm to take the 6:57pm N21 bus to Glen Cove. There's aleady a good amount of people there. And I stood in the fifthy humid air. And stood. 7:20pm still no LI Bus to ANYWHERE. The line is quite long at this point, people look confused but I was louder than anyone. After standing for nearly 40 minutes so far waiting for the bus I start complaining. I was really loosing it. Heck I'll even admit I was almost having a fit. Most people ignore me and don't care, other stupid riders ask me if I know where the bus is.
7:30pm still no bus whatsoever. Then a bus finally shows but it's N20 Roslyn. Most people ask the driver what's going on including me he said "I don't know". He also added the last stop is Great Neck LIRR, even though the schedule has it going to Roslyn. This bus 599 had no A/C and people inside were fanning themselves. Yup I feel like it's a third world transit system.
Now I don't feel well at all, as my N21 bus still hasn't come. I got a soda in the pizza parlor nearby, since I was feeling quite dehydrated. 599 pulls out at 7:35pm, 55 minutes late (he was the 6:40pm). 7:40pm finally the N21 bus 149 pulls up. I ask the driver what happened, she said there was terrible traffic on N.Blvd. Didn't hear anything on WCBS or WINS about it while I was waiting, I know the LIE was closed for work till 6pm but it's after 6 now, and I doubt it would affect N.Blvd that bad. Well the bus fortunately had A/C, but once we got into Nassau and started dropping off pax, the front door would not close! So the driver had to get up and push it closed. Then it opened again. And we went with the door open until Great Neck where she tried closing it again, finally got closed, only to get stuck again when making a stop near Community. From then on the door would get stuck, the driver would go a few blocks then pull over and ATTEMPT to get it closed. It would not stay closed. This driver had a world of patience, she must've tried to get the damn front door to close 25 times. And it sure delayed us.
I saw the B/O on the radio but they weren't offering much help. Also at times the door wouldn't open. The bus finally gets to my stop in Sea Cliff at 8:55pm, but the door won't open. She has me twist this red knob near the front but the door still would not open. At this point we were both cracking up. I had to push on the door really hard to get it open. Yup I'm riding a bus what feels like somewhere in Mexico. Finally get out and walk home, at 9pm over two hours since I first started waiting for the bus in Flushing.
Between an OTP of only 20% of the time, frequent problems, and some of the most screwed up things you see in mass transit, LI Bus sure takes the cake. The service is awful. I'm suprised a lunatic hasn't killed anybody at LI Bus yet. It's hard to know it's part of the MTA ya know.
Oh and for those of you who occasionally pick on me because I don't have a job, you don't have to be smart to know with relying on buses in a north shore location like Sea Cliff that holding any job would be a huge feat.
You can bet I'll be calling LI Bus Monday to report this latest nightmere, though I doubt anything will change since most riders simply don't care or are too stupid to know just how bad things are.
Would you believe my daughter spent much effort on her part to obtain a LI Bus hat for me this Father's Day. I'm wareing it in the office, just to see if anyone notices.
Mr t__:^)
Well if I had a LI Bus hat I'd rather have a QSC one. QS buses are in much better shape, even the Orion CNG's at QS run alot smoother than our new ones.
BTW saw LI Bus 102 broke down in Great Neck with the cover up.
The new LI Bus saying
"I think I can, I think I can, I think I can, I can't!" :-0
[The new LI Bus saying
"I think I can, I think I can, I think I can, I can't!" :-0]
Well I THINK you hit on it, we need a bond issue of some billion dollars to level all those hill up north near you, then the bus will be able to say ... I think I can, I think I can ... OOOOOh I actually did it, yippy.
Mr t__:^)
Sounds good, level the hills. Make it just like the south shore. One problem, NIMBY's! :-0
"I gotta get out of this place if it's the last thing I ever do"
Saw 1767 on Thursday at about 7 pm on the Q30. Whizzed right by me at 188 st and the horace harding (LIE).
Looked pretty good - but the drivers side had the old MTA logo (the upside down W) on it. It went by too fast to see anything else (or to even take her for a ride.
flx7595
After all these years and bus orders, management still has not found enough new buses to finally give these old boys their last rites?
You can't keep a good 19 year old RTS bus down. Look at PA1826 in Manhattan; she was the only 1982 express bus in Manhattan when she was at Quill Depot. Then, when the rest of the 17/18xx buses from JAM and UP were being scrapped, she was transferred to HP. She suffered a setback though when she was transferred to Crosstown Storage, the equivalent of a nursing home. But, unlike Destiny's Child, she's a survivor baby! She's back at HP (with a new paint job from what I hear) blessing times square in only a way an RTS can.
But thanks to the shitbox Orions, PA1751, PA1767, PA1773, and PA1852 may be getting decals scraped off as I type, but I strongly feel that 1826 is going to be preserved in a museum or something.
We had a contest going here in the fall of last year. It was called the "Last 1982 Suburban RTS Coach" contest. My picks were 1767 and 1826. Well, looks who's still standing! And to believe, people thought the 1700s wouldn't make it to 2001!
Rock on PA1767 and PA1826!!!!!!
I'll give you the argument that the Orion Vs are not exactly the greatest - looking machnines on NYC roads (don't even think of asking me my viewpoint on the Orion VIs & VIIs!). But I cannot begin to tell you how much my heart sinks when I see a GMC RTS or a TMC 4600 - 4800 RTS coach pull up at the bus stop. Yeah, keep some in a museum, but not on the road where they can dust AND be dusted.
That GMC and TMC will be able to catch any Orion soon enough. All of the Orions are being slowed to 40mph. In fact, some already are. That makes buses like 1767 and 1826 FASTER than Orions.
Don't even get me started on relibility. We have RTS 2270 (a 1981 RTS) running around SI while eight year old Orions are sitting in storage in the same borough! In bus years 2270 is 100 years old! The Orions are 40! What does that say?
I have got on a Repowered Orion #112 on Q74 and it went over 40 MPH on Main ST. BUT the Repowered Orions could still go over 40 MPH. At the highest it could go would be at least 60-65 MPH. While the Not yet Repowered Orions go up to 75 MPH. So there is a cut of speed by 10-15 MPH. BUT the #9350-#9699 Novas are getting the White Paint job and the speeds on those buses are going down to 45-50 MPH. And if MTA would be kepping the 1981-1982 RTS's running past 2003. MTA would have to Repowered them. And most GM's would be Repowered also. While the 1994-1996 Orions would be haveing the Pipes remove from the Bottom to the top.
>>>I have got on a Repowered Orion #112 on Q74 and it went over 40 MPH on Main ST. BUT the Repowered Orions could still go over 40 MPH.<<<
How do you know? You looked at the speedometer? Sources more relaible than yourself have stated that all repowered Orions were to governed down to 40mph.
>>>At the highest it could go would be at least 60-65 MPH.<<<
Not likely. New RTS can't even go that fast.
>>>While the Not yet Repowered Orions go up to 75 MPH.<<<
That's laughable. Buses have to be governed AT or BELOW the speed limit. If I remember correctly, the speed for trucks on buses on NYC Expressways was 60mph. Only an ungoverned bus can achieve that and a few MCIs.
>>>BUT the #9350-#9699 Novas are getting the White Paint job and the speeds on those buses are going down to 45-50 MPH.<<<
What do you mean going down? If anything, they'll be going up if that's the case. Those buses are governed to a dismal 42mph as it is.
There are a few NYCTA buses that will top 70 MPH. Trust me. I will not post their numbers because I like them just the way they are now- forgotten, out of sight, and out of mind :-)
The highest speed limit on any road in NYC is 50 mph -- that's for cars, trucks, buses, whatever.
The max. speed limit on ALL NYC expressways is 50 MPH.
Wayne
That's horrible.
Yeah - it is. It was rough when I lived in NYC - being a motorist. I'm glad I live in MD now where WMATA buses and Ride-On buses (and the others) routinely roll along at 60 plus MPH. I've once paced a Ride-On Orion V doing 73 MPH on I-270.
Wayne
Oh really. About three wks ago I went busfanning out in Jersey. Took the PATH to EWR (ass-kickr bet. Journal and Harrison) and waited at the bus docks for the #108 to the PA Bus term. The ride cost me $3.25 since NJT zones fares, but I got my money's worth. A Flexible, #3700s (is it a Metro B?), pulled up, and driver managed to get that baby going at 65 MPH on the Tpke. When I got off at the PA, I asked myself "Why does NYCT govern its buses, esp. the express coaches?" Give me a more valid excuse than the Speed limit, 'cause nearly everybody (including me) goes over.
The posted maximum speed limit may be 50 mph, but when there is no traffic congestion, you stand a good chance of getting rear-ended going 55 mph. The average car speed is probably somewhere between 55 and 60 mph on those city highways with a 50 mph max, and cars doing over 60 mph are not that rare. What is rare is a NYC policeperson giving out a speeding ticket!
Also double parking. The problem is sooo bad around Flushing and on Northern Blvd all the way to the city line. Never see any cops giving out tickets there. Buses have trouble getting into stops and then are delayed by double parkers in the right lane.
At 125th Street from 5th Ave to Amsterdam Av are so bad because some idoits double parking & make Bx15,M100/101 & M60 running late. Look to me that cops don't care about giving the ticket who double park.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
I know it's something a lunatic would say but I think cars should be banned from the city unless someone HAS to drive in due to a medical condition or business that involves heavy or large items. Chinatown by the Bowery was especially quiet today, because it was CLOSED.
A garbage truck turned over at Canal and Bowery. NYPD diverted traffic onto East Broadway as about 4 blocks north on Bowery were closed. M103 was running via E.Broadway.
Gotta admit it was nice having all those cars off Bowery.
You're right. Even though the max NYC limit is only 50 MPH - you'd have to be crazy to drive at 50 MPH when conditions are clear. I do still see NYPD highway units waiting to get some unsuspecting speeders. Here in the DC area when not congested the traffic always flows at 65 plus, especially the Beltway (I-495) and I-270.
Wayne
Our I-495 absolutely sucks. Sometimes you're VERY lucky if you hit 65mph. Otherwise you won't go above 30 anytime fast. Queens Blvd is faster than this believe it or not-and more police presence too. But you also got to point out that there's roadwork ALL over the place on the LIE. 9 times out of 10 the traffic stops for no reason not even because of the construction-I think because of dumb people who don't knwo what they're doing.
QM1#510Gary
If you take the LIE aka I-495 out to Long Island during off peak hours, it's not uncommon to see motorists drive 80 MPH.
what what about 2270 and 2660? Still running at YUK
They're running - but they too were in storage. Hey --- a 1981 RTS (2270)has made it's 20th B-Day and it is one that hasn't been remanufactured like its sisters.
Is there any room on this bus for one more passenger???
This is the longest articulated bus in the world. We have plenty of room for more passengers. Hopefully we will never get to your stop for you to get off.
Hart Bus
You bet; we are quite Flxible with passenger space. We have more open space than the constellation of Orion; welcome aboard!
-F.
A GREAT place to spend some time and learn more then you thought you wanted to know about buses. So, stay a while & enjoy.
Mr t__:^)
Welcome aboard! We are glad you can join us.
I would like to know if there are any Bus Talkers would be going to the SEPTA Roadeo this Saturday? I would be there. And I not comming from Cherry Hill since I going to do that in August. I would be comming from NYC and doing this as a Day Trip now.
So who ever is comming to the SEPTA Roadeo. See ya there.
If you think I'm going to miss this, then you have another thing coming. I will most likely be wearing my 1998 SEPTA Roadeo t-shirt. =)
Thanks. Now do they give out those T-Shirts for free? And do I have to pay anything to get into the Roadeo?
Found this article in today's Newsday:
http://www.newsday.com/news/skybot/city/sunday/nd5903.htm
Geesh! I hope those bastard robbers are found. I usually don't like being out anywhere late at night, bus or subway.
When there's less people around, thugs always find opportunities.
As far as I know, they haven't been found or caught. One thing that bothers me about the Daily News story is publication of the drivers name. He happens to be a friend of mine, and a very kind man; excellent tempered as well. It's my opinion that the individuals who commited the robbery shouldn't be privy to the drivers name (for obvious reasons).
While going to Greenvale today the second bus I took, N20 to Hicksville, number 213 literally BROKE down. While on the entrance ramp to Northern Blvd there was this loud "thud" and the bus leaned left. Apparently the rear part of the bus support "broke". So once again I was stuck and it was not until almost an hour later that another bus showed up.
Well at least this time I passed the time by talking to the driver about buses and learned a few things. He told me the Cummins L10G engines overheat alot, especially with A/C on. Also another reason A/C is switched off is because the bus has trouble accelerating and stalls.
Also with what happened last night, the brake comes on if the front door is open, so that is why we couldn't keep going.
He agreed the new 300s are much better buses. At least the driver was friendly and didn't mind chatting, so that made the time go quicker.
With all of the problems I'm hearing that the MTA has with Cummins engines on its buses, it's no surprise to me that the Orion Vs 101-399 are getting new Detroit Diesel Series 50s.
Don't you mean 101-316? 317 is a CNG Orion. There's no 318-399.
Q26#310Gary
Oops! Forgot to check the rosters again! But anyway, you get the point I'm trying to make, right?
You can add 157 to the breakdown list. Saw her broke down right here in Sea Cliff on the N21 today. Cummins and Orion don't mix well, plus you add the poor maintainance at LI Bus and you get breakdowns.
And as usual I saw a few buses w/o air conditioning and rode on one also. Like I said, third world transit system. Especially on the north shore with all these hills and traffic the buses just can't take it.
I'm sightly curious in what is comning out next in terms of buses in ho scale. I know it was mentioned here that APM is making a GMC New Look model(expected in the fall-don't worry, im patient)-but i am wondering if anything else is due out. Also, is Road Chamsp still making buses? I never understood why they didnt make RTS buses. Will they make buses for 2001 or what i see out there is it?
Right now, there's not a lot new from the manufacturers. However, as you know, I am making a new twist on old stock; a 30' version of the Road Champs Flxible Metro. Also, I have a 35' Grumman 870 in the works. Cheers!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Road Champs is no longer in the business of making anything BUt police cars. The company was sold three years ago to an owner in Malibu, California but production is still overseas. So don't expect any more buses from them. They do not reply to any e-mails, so save your efforts in that department too.
That's not good. I really wish they'd make more buses. Well, it looks like my remaining Flx Metros have become collector's items. BTW, I have a few left available for custom painting to various liveries, so get 'em while they last, folks. Hope to hear from you soon!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Can they run on HO scale train track?
I managed to make it to the NJT Roadeo yesterday. Here are some of the highlights:
* - I started off in Downingtown (I left straight from work) on the 6:47am R5 Thorndale to 30 St Station, to connect with the R7 Trenton line.
* - From 30 St, I caught the 8:19am R7 to Trenton, however it was running a few minutes late getting into Trenton (this particular trip always seems to be a few minutes late). I decided to wait at Trenton and take a few pictures, including SEPTA Neoplan #3252, and a couple of NJT photos (I don't recall which ones off hand).
* - I then took the 10:00am NEC train to New Brunswick, which was running a few minutes late today since there was track work between Princeton Jct and New Brunswick.
* - When I got to New Brunswick, I barely made the connection with the M18 bus (RTS #1142), which will be re-named the 818 next week. In fact all of the M-series routes in Middlesex and Monmouth will be renumbered into the 8xx series lines next week. These were the last lettered lines in the NJT system, as the Bergen and Passaic lines were renumbered into the 700s several years ago.
* - Got off in Old Bridge and took the 139 to Howell (102D3 CNG, I think it was 7011).
* - At the Roadeo, RTS 1292, 1349, and 1464 were used as part of the Roadeo.
* - On display this year was Baby RTS 2530, MC-9B 5027 and 5123, CNG Cruiser 7072, D4000 Coach 7800, Flxible Metro D Transit 1922. Oh, and the NJT Police bus was also there. I was surpised that there weren't any historic vehicles or other vehicles on display this year, but I could've missed something along the way.
* - Anyway, Trevor could probably clear up some of the loose ends, but I heard that the 107 and 108 will be shifted from Hilton to Ironbound; a new bus facility will be built to either supplement or replace Oradell and Market St; and there will be a minor routing change through Carlstadt on the 161 to serve some new office complex.
* - After a couple of hours, I left took some more pics along US 9 across from the Howell P&R lot, then took the 139 (CNG 7014) to Lakewood, and waited about 90 minutes for the 317 back to Philadelphia (D4000 #7556).
Oh, just in case you needed some reminders, the SEPTA Roadeo is next week...
Anyway, Trevor could probably clear up some of the loose ends, but I heard that the 107 and 108 will be shifted from Hilton to Ironbound; a new bus facility will be built to either supplement or replace Oradell and Market St; and there will be a minor routing change through Carlstadt on the 161 to serve some new office complex.
The new garage will be in Clifton and will replace Market Street (Paterson). Jim Gilligan of NJT told me it should open in 2004. NJT is negotiating the land deal this year. That will make for some LONG deadheads unless Oradell is expanded or moved somewhere else in central Bergen County. The 175 would have to dead from Clifton to Ridgewood, and the 178/182 from Clifton to Hackensack.
Correct about the move to Clifton from the Paterson Operations. However on the routes, there will be a slight route move around in this deal!
Following:
144/164 Trippers from Market Street will all come from Oradell
178 Transferred from Market Street to Oradell
182 Transferred from Market Street to Oradell
186 Transferred from Oradell to Fairview
321 Transferred from Fairview to Meadowlands.
No Flxibles will be moved to Oradell. The D4000 Cruisers that are slated from Market Street will be moved to Oradell with the routes. The Flxible METRO-D Suburbans will be moved from Oradell to Fairview or to Market Street. If the METRO-D Suburbans are moved to Market Street, Then Market Street will send some METRO-B Suburbans to Fairview to cover the 186 runs.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Oh good - 178/182 get full-time MCI service again!! They used to be exclusive MC9Bs, but now they even run RTSs on them!
Market Street/Clifton would still need a few D4000s for the 161 and 190, unless they transfer those out to Wayne and keep the garage MCI-free.
Rode this MCI this morning - and once before. This bus has floors unlike all other MCIs. It seems like roofing paper or sand paper. Why is this one different???
This weekend I went down to the Orion Bus Plant in Oriskany, NY (15 mins from my house) just to see what's new down there. I got a look of the New Orion VII for MTA. (pix are hard to do there without getting caught, also the Oneida County Sherrif's Dept is literally across the street!) Boy, these things are ugly!!!!!!!! It was in MTA New York City Bus paint. They are putting the finishing touches on it . The front and sides looks like a New Flyer and the back looks like the old Philly Neoplans. Who designed these things and what blueprint did they copy it from! One quick question, what depot is getting these things, I know JG isn't, at least I think! Thanks!
B61 Leonard
I think QV is. Heard they're due for 30 of these to replace their remaining 3900s :( If QV doesn;t get them then I bet either MCH or MHV will get them. Stay tuned.
Q46#6365Gary
What do you mean 6365? QV does not have a 6365
Ray
I know but maybe sometime down the line when they get Orion Hybrids they'll have 6365.
Q46#9365Gary-Better?
they copy it from the new flyer blueprint
QV, MCH, and MV are getting the hybrid Orion 7. JG, yes, JACKIE GLEASON, and Coliseum are getting the Orion 7 CNGs.
CWalNYC
Oh yes. We in the East Bronx are due to get about 130 of the poor excuses for city buses. All in lieu of the several more competent Orion Vs that come out of MCH working the BX rtes., and some of the RTSs out of GH. Oh ain't it grand?
I, like you, WISH we'd still have RTS and Orion V, after seeing the HIDEOUSNESS of the Orion VII "S#!tbox" (ooh, can I say that? That's what I called it on SubTalk Live)and the incident with the Shaker Table Test. Well, let's just say that the TA screws us all.
CWalNYC
I'd take the RTS or Orion V over those ugly VIIs any day. I hope they fall apart in the streets, and that NYCTA gets some real buses to replace them. The Grummans may have had their troubles, but at least they were good lookers. MUCH better looking than that awful VII. Yeech.
-F.
if this bus failed a pre delivery test why is nyct still taking delivery on them.
Because their older buses are about to fall apart, and a lot of riders know it. And will complain like H*** if the TA doesn't do somehing about it.
I heard about the Grumman rejects from NYCTA in the 80s (I was just born when that order began to unravel). It may have looked prudent to get rid of those buses back then, but how come either the Bee - line or NJT has managed to keep them going for the last twenty years, while NYCT is rummaging around with crapola in the name of "Buy NY"?
Firstly, let's get some things staight.....
(1) The ORIONS may be faling apart, but as I've said so many times before, you can't keep a good RTS down, whether it's 2 or 20.
(2) NJT had those Grummans for a grand total of 13 years. One year (1986) was used to rehab them. The other twelve they were on the road. NYCTA was right to get rid of those. They had engines falling out for the love of Pete! Besides, if they weren't total failures, NYCTA wouldn't be the RTS stronghold it is today.
(3) And since that Orion VII fell apart, you New Yorkers could be looking at a bus crisis worse than the Grumman fiasco.
NJT may have had the Grummans for 13 years (which is one more year than the Federal standard bus life), but they ran for several years in NYC before that, so they actually lasted a pretty good amount of years.
Actually, the Grummans arrived in batches throughout 1980. They were pulled for the first time around 1982. Then they were placed back on the road and pulled for the last time in 1984. I seriously doubt that these buses got that many miles on the road given all of their problems. Plus, they sat in storage for a good two-three years, then got a rebuild, they should have lasted 13 years at MJT. And that's a pretty short lifespan.
"They had engines falling out for the love of Pete!"
Daaaammmnnn!
"And since that Orion VII fell apart, you New Yorkers could be looking at a bus crisis worse than the Grumman fiasco."
Thanks a lot! Remind me not to get on one of them when they get here.
Well, I for one find it to be a shame that the Grumman 870s had engines fall out in the streets of NYC, but once they were rehabbed, they served JT well, and were around 20 years old whe they were replaced, yet still had many years of service left in them.
As far as the Orion VIIs go, only time will tell. I don't see them as being terribly reliable, but who knows...maybe they will have bugs that can be ironed out, or maybe NYC will give them the boot after a little while. All I know is that they are hideous, and as far as styling goes, I much prefer the sleek lines of the Grumman 870.
Oh, if only MCI would reintroduce that body style to give Orion a run for the money.
-F.
The reason forthose engines falling out of the NYCTA/MaBSTOA Grummans 870's was the fault of the MTA not the city streets.The engines that were too large for the frames they were sitting on.If Flexibles were so bad for NY,how its New Look cousins last 10 yrs longer and its NYCDOT and LIBUS counterparts last 10-15 yrs longer.Answer:cutting corners and an under the table sweetheart deal with GM at the time for the RTS's.
Okay, people, I've gone over this many times before, but people still don't want to believe the truth. Well here it is AGAIN in living color!
When the Grumman-Flxible 870 Model A was introduced in 1978, TAs gobbled them up like hotcakes. Too bad 60% of those TAs had numerous problems with these buses. The Grummans could handle smaller cities and towns (not much unlike Gilligs of today), but they flopped in big cities like NYC and Houston. If it's that NYCTAs fault about the shoddy buses, how come we in Houston were rebuilding these things from the ground up and they were still unfit to be striped (getting the current Metro paint scheme)? And why did Flxible set up a center to rebuild over 2000 of these buses? It wasn't just Houston and NYCTA sending these buses over there. TAs from across the country were trying to get Flxible to do something about these wrecks.
In the end we got rid of 226 of our Grummans. They were sold for 5 million dollars to be mostly used for parts. The rest we sent to Grumman to be rebuilt AGAIN and then came back as Metro Model As. These buses lasted until 1997, rattling and buckling all the way. Their last summer in operation there were 2 or 3 on the side of the road every rush hour, inable to start, engine door wide open. We all know what happened to most of NYCTAs Grummans. The point here is this; the 870As and Bs weren't built for such heavy duty service. It took constant rehabbing to get these buses in decent condition.
As for their New Look cousins, those 1977 New Looks were widely panned for steering and more importantly rust and corrosion probelms. Not exactly something remarkeable is it? As for the Grummans lasting longer elsewhere, look where they went, LI Bus, Green Lines, and Jamaica. Hello people, those are smaller bus operations, definately not the same stress was put on those buses as in larger operating systems.
And for God sakes, let's get this straight. GRUMMANS DID NOT LAST 20 YEARS AT NJ TRANSIT!!!!! Not even their own order of 1981 Grummans lasted that long. They were retired in 1994-95. The NYCTA Grummans were bought by NJT in 1986, extensively rehabbed (again) and put back on the road in 1987. There were retired in 1999. A grand total of twelve years on the road. Wow. That's Gillig performance there.
As for the so called deal between GM and NYCTA, the TA head was a gun named David or Alan Gunn, supposedly he was anti-Flxible and rightly so. After one of those lovely Grummans burned up they were all pulled in 1984. TWO years after hundreds of RTS were coming in and in the midst of more. Also, it was the failure of the Grummans that caused NYCTA to implement the rigorous testing that only the RTS was ever able to pass. The test had to be lifted so Orions could come in. Thanks Flxible. I'd rather have a fleet of RTS than those rickety Grummans. They were deemed DANGEROUS people, DANGEROUS.
So, it's no problem to like the Grummans, but let's not change history. The Grumman 870 was by all means a horrible bus. It's counter part the RTS-II-01/03 was a decent to good bus. There was no reason for Flxible to have buses with not only engines falling out, but a slew of electrical, frame, and body problems. It's not the TAs fault people, it was Flxible.
On a side note, we in Houston still have Flxible hybrid 1627 sitting with RTS-II-01 1759 (with slopedback intact)in the sotrage yeard in full Metro paint. There are some more buses there as well. An Eagle 5, Eagle 10, an RTS-04 (2052, sorry it ain't 2150), a Flxible Metro A, a couple of Ikari (bleh!) and a 40 year old GM New Look. I guess this is the historical fleet.
In response to
"As for the so called deal between GM and NYCTA, the TA head was a gun named David or Alan Gunn, supposedly he was anti-Flxible and rightly so. After one of those lovely Grummans burned up they were all pulled in 1984. TWO years after hundreds of RTS were coming in and in the midst of more. Also, it was the failure of the Grummans that caused NYCTA to implement the rigorous testing that only the RTS was ever able to pass. The test had to be lifted so Orions could come in. Thanks Flxible. I'd rather have a fleet of RTS than those rickety Grummans. They were deemed DANGEROUS people, DANGEROUS"
Actually te only reason that bus did burn was because because of the NYCTA's poor maintenance to these buses, I mean they forgot a shock absorber pin for the shocks I mean duh how stupid can they be, that is why NYCTA withdrew there 870's before the fire bus got inspected. Those buses could have lastd at least 10 years at NYCTA if they would have just kept on the maintence too.
10 years is still pathetic for a bus. Especially in an era where TAs were keeping buses for 20-30 years on average. The Grummans only lasted four. We can't keep blaming NYCTA for the condition of these buses. Since you all claim maintenance was so bad, it's a wonder these buses lasted four years. They needed ALOT of maintenance.
>10 years is still pathetic for a bus. Especially in an era where TAs >were keeping buses for 20-30 years on average. The Grummans only >lasted four. We can't keep blaming NYCTA for the condition of these >buses. Since you all claim maintenance was so bad, it's a wonder >these buses lasted four years. They needed ALOT of maintenance.
I would say that Grummans need some maintenance but the Orion 6 buses are allot worst.The Grumman's which run in San Jose; 1981, were really good since San Jose was able to retire them and ship them to Canada and a few are still running here, not only from San Jose. The New York Grummans might of been bad, but later on the 1990's Flxible was a well built bus and the MTA could have tried them but they didn't. New Jersey seemed to see the fact that there roomy and not as compact as the TMC.
I also wonder why none of tri state cities tried Flyer D901's ?
Actually, NYCTA was slated to receive some Flx Metros in late 1996; unfortunately, they had closed up shop earlier that year, and the main faults were not from making shoddy buses. In the early part of that decade, Flxible made a number of CNG coaches, but the fuel cells went bad and caused major problems. That was the fault of the supplier and not Flxible Corp. This was a majority of why they went bankrupt in the mid-90s.
While the Grumman 870 had some early-model problems, they were eventually ironed out after a few years of production and were virtually unheard of by the time it became the Flxible Metro. Ad there are still a good number of Grumman 870s in service; in fact, our 1979 35-footers from Valley Metro (Roanoke, VA) that were retired in 1994 have gone on to provide serve in both Niagra Falls and Toronto, and to the best of my knowledge are still in service.
Also, our museum Grumman, Valley Metro no. 186, served as a shuttle at another museum for 3 years before it was donated to ours. We just restored it earlier this year; all that was needed was painnt as everything else was in good shape. It is still running strong for us with very little trouble to this day.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
I'll admit that any Flxible built after 1983 was good. But the Grummans were trash. I liked them, but they are trash.
What do you mean we can't keep blaming the NYCTA for the condition of these buses, that is one of the main reasons that the 870's collapsed in NY.I mean how will a major transportaion co, just send a bus out without a shock absorber pin and not expect anything to happen, I'm surprised any bus made it through NY at that time when the maintenance was so horrible.
I heard the maintenance was bad in the early 80s; in fact, some of NYCTA's venerable GM Fishbowls suffered from this, as did the Flx New Looks. It was a combination of the two; lackluster maintenace and new-model bugs, that did the Grummans in at NYCTA.
And new-model flaws are not just exclusive to the 870; the first Series 50-powered transit buses of 1994 and later suffered transmission and turbine woes. Newer versions are perfected and have fewer problems. The initial RTSes (slopeback) had poor AC units, which led to the "squareback" design of today.
Buses, like cars, have imperfections in the first model years; look at the 1976 Dodge Aspen and Plymouth Volare. While they had proven drivetrains from the Dart and Valiant that they replaced, quality control took a nosedive around the time of their introduction, and right when a new model was thought by the public to be overdue from Chrysler. In the 1976-77 models, Hoods flew open, brakes failed, engines stalled, and fenders rusted out after six months. However, the cars were improved by 1978, and the later models held up a lot better than the early ones.
What happened was that Chrysler was in a hurry to rush the new model to the showrooms. In fact, Lee Iacocca once stated that the Aspen/Volare should have been delayed a full model year to esure quality. Perhaps that is what also happened with the Grumman 870; it was only a matter of time before the manufacturer learned their lessons and smoothed out all the bugs for improved quality.
-F.
Sure NYCTA screwed up, but the Grummans were failing elsewhere as well! It wasn't just a New York thing. You expect me to believe that Grumman-Flxible would be kind enough to rebuild about 2500 buses if they didn't feel they themselves dropped the ball?
Sure te A-frame thing was Grumman's fault, but the fire incident was truely NYCTA's fault, NYCTA tried to make themsleves look good by claiming Grumman was at fault and they took all the 870's out of service and dumped them in a yard until someone would come to pick them up. But look how they ran once they were rehabbed, these babys did there job for NJT, during the snowstorms rain and sleet, they did there job! They probably could have made it till now but they just had to be replaced, cause there time was coming to an end.
Tone
www.transitworld.org
You must mean after the second rehab. Yeah, they ran okay. But they didn't last too long at NJT, a transit agaency that was keeping New Looks for 20 years or more and still has 18 year old MCIs. But, times have changed and I doubt they will keep the Novas that long either.
Still, people fail to come to grips with the fact that Grumman 870 buses had SERIOUS defects, including the A-frame problem.
There novas are falling apart,they are crackin up, you have to see how the 2600 series look, the first batch from 96, they are horrible.
I can actually use your TA defense in this case. I heard that NJT rushed the order of Novas. Especially the current batch (1000s) to replace the Grummans. Still, that's embarrasing for an RTS to have those problems.
Oh yeah they messed up with those big time, they are in and out of cummins every week I was behind 1087 one day on Comunipaw Ave in Jersey City, and while the bus was boarding passengers on the corner, it broke down right then and there, they are junk, there life span will probably be less than the 870's. I mean don't get me wrong it is cool to have the RTS' there but the one NJT got really stink!
Okay, okay, I'm really puzzled here.
The 96 Novas appear to be in pretty sad shape. They are loud, rough riding, they bang and rattle a lot, and make other strange noises.
But the new ones are much improved, more comfortable seats, quieter and smoother ride -
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THESE BUSES?!?
I ride them almost EVERY DAY and have not had a SINGLE bad experience with them!!!
And one more note :
Flxibles still run and are still produded in CHINA :)
Yes, they are. I'd LOVE to see America TAs buy these, especially WMATA. While they are not US-built, they are still good-looking buses. Annd they offer a low floor model with NO changes in its sleek styling. Bravo!
-F.
The answer is simple; much like a new bus design, the new drivetrain cofiguration is improving with age. While the first (1994) four-cycle engined transit buses suffered many problems, jerked and bucked under any load, and were extremely noisy, the later models have fewer problems and make vety little noise. You can hear our 94 Gilligs here in Roanoke for blocks away and they vibrate a lot, but I rode a 97 in Grand Rapids (Mich) and you could barely hear it run; it was very quiet annd smooth. That sounds like the case with the newer RTS as well.
-F.
You're damn right that they are in and out of Cummins every week. The Cummins office in the Bx. is not that far of a walk from where I live. Whenever I go by there, I always see a couple of RTS with NJT colors sitting there, waiting for attention. I guess that NJT is having as much trouble with the M11+ engine as NYCT is having with the C8.3.
Like I've known always, Detroit Diesel makes stronger engines. The 6v92 and the Series 50 proves it. Anytime I hear a Cummins engine, esp. the C8.3, it sounds as if its going to blow at any moment.
P.S. Can somebody tell me what UP's 5085 was doing at Cummins a few weeks ago, as well as a 9000 series RTS more recently (I was too far away to get a good look at the number.)
The 1995-96 Novas Look bad but run 100% better than the Newer 1999-2000 Novas. The 1999-2000 Novas are just a electrical nightmare! I'd take a 1995-96 26xx Series Nova ANYDAY! I've driven both and the newer ones are just crap!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
The 4900-5249 series for the MTA are nothing but rattlers and have rotting peeling paint on them. Some of these buses literally look like crap. The 8750-9249 series look and sound much better than any of the Newer Novas. I guess MTA rushed the other Novas here so that's why they look the way they do.
Q58#9147Gary
My favorites are the 8600-8703 TMCs, with the 8750-9249 a close second. I go with the later versions of Nova rolling around NYC, but those ones, esp. 4900-5249, have seat pitches suitable only for little kids. I don't know how this design flaq came about, whether its the vandal - resistant cloth or construction quirks or simply bad dimensions by the orderer (one Metropolitan Transportation Authority).
Oh yeah I never said they ran bad, they run great! And yes you are right the new ones suck big time.
Tone
Transitworld.org
That's the 2nd time I've heard that. Also, lot of missing bolts. Manufacturing/Quality Control problems at Nova ?
I hear that! But I have to admit, the T60206's aka the "Baby" Novas are great! They are fast and bouncy. Pretty nice units. But I agree with you in terms of the 40 footers. I like the appearance of the 1999-2000 RTS's but I really think they should have stuck with Detroit Diesel as a power source.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Yeah, The T60-206's are cool as hell, I've only had a crack at two of those, once for my training and once we had one at the yard and I joy drove it around. But over all the 1995-96 rule.
Being a B/O now, I'm seeing a lot more, "driving" wise then I was in Maintenance. I can definately agree with BT member D60HF when he says that the Nova's are crampy in the Driver's area. I have had continual back issues since I've been behind the Novas. As we speak I'm receiving a back massage because of that shit.
When you get a op, hit me on my e-mail at no7220onthe6@aol.com or D4000 Cruiser@aol.com
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Anouther thing that's cool is the MCI D4000's. It looks MAD COOL!! I went in #7545 and #7546. I got to ride #7546 on the 409. It drives FAST!! It did 50 MPH on one part of US 130. And I went in #7545 when it was being showing at the SEPTA Roadeo. I got to sit in the drivers seat on #7545 and there's plenty of Legroom in the drivers seat. And the Driver Seat on D4000's feels nice. AND The Buttons are eazy to use.
Yes indeed! Those drivers areas to the RTS are the only downfall! No room at all! OMG!!! LOLLOL! Congrats on becoming an NJT Bus Operator!
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
BUMP THAT BULLCRAP
The 870s may have had shoddy A-frames, BUT the TA's crap ass maintenance in the in the early 80s made the situation 210% worse, also to the fact that David Gunn was not a Grumman fan, so when the A-frames started acting stupid, thier attitude was that "Poof Be Gone" attitude. The Problem could'be been resolved with Flxible BUT the TA just let the buses go becuase of the lack of proper care!
GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS, THE TA OF THE 80s RUINED IT FOR US FLXIBLE FANS
Granted they may have been rehabed before they went to NJT, but they still lasted well into 2001, with 1 still in Revenue Service TODAY! If the TA would've done the same, who knows! But Gunn didn't want them so we at NJT got the gold as far as I'm concerned
Regards,
T.Lo
AMEN! NYC could have EASILY made those Grummans last but decided to kick them to the curb WAY too soon. NJT did the right thing by rehabbing them, and they also helped keep a uniform look to their mostly Flx Metro fleet as both looked basically similar.
Most people see NJ as "the armpit of New York", but I say they can't be all bad as they had the upper hand in this situation. NYC's "junk" was NJT's gold, and they should get an award for keeping these beautiful buses running strong for as long as they did. Kudos to NJT!
-F.
Why should NYC rehab buses two or three times in four years? To even have had to rehab these buses TWO YEARS INTO THEIR LIVES was bad. If NJT had good luck with these buses, kudos to them. But NYCTA was going through it's own shit, no need to dump Grummans shit on top of that. They made the right decision. Had NYCTA kept those wrecks, they would have ben gone by 1990 instead of 2000. Count your blessings.
And one out of 620. That's not too good.
That's only because the NOVA's aren't worth a damn that there is still one in Revenue service! HOWEVER, THERE IS ABOUT 20 On back up just in case anything else goes wrong!
Whatever, you can have your precious RTSs. Don't forget that thier service support ain't worth shit either! OH One more thing, Explain why NJT had to send back at least 50 RTS in the 1999-2000 order with in the first year AND why the first demo caught fire For no damn reason........Hmmmmmmmmm!??!?!?!?!?!?!
Regards,
T.Lo
>>>That's only because the NOVA's aren't worth a damn that there is still one in Revenue service! HOWEVER, THERE IS ABOUT 20 On back up just in case anything else goes wrong!<<<
There are almost 1,000 NOVA's in serivce for NJT and you're getting excited because there are 20 Grummans sitting in storage somewhere and ONE in service? That's fine and dandy but I think you'll be dealing with those NOVA's for a little while.
>>>Don't forget that thier service support ain't worth shit either!<<<
Boo hoo. It's good enough if NJT is considering going back to them so they can replace even more of your preciosu Flxibles.
>>>OH One more thing, Explain why NJT had to send back at least 50 RTS in the 1999-2000 order with in the first year AND why the first demo caught fire For no damn reason........Hmmmmmmmmm!??!?!?!?!?!?!<<<
And how can you compare that to pulling 850 buses from the street, rebuilding them, putting them back in service only to be deemed dangerous and then banning those buses from the system for life? Plus, look at what's powering the NOVA's, Cummins engines. Not exactly the best. Plus, NJT rushed the order so they could hurry up and get rid of the Grummans. Must've not been THAT good.
As for aftermarket support, perhaps Flxible's would be better than NOVA's, but guess what, Flxible is out of business and due to lack of ANY support whatsoever, Flxibles all over are hitting the scrapyards. So yes, I will take my precious RTS over a Flxible anysay.
Very ironic you should say that. At Blacksburg Transit, the 1989 RTSes are being replaced this fall with New Flyer LFs, while the 1986 and 87 Flx Metros will be staying for at least 3 or 4 more years. The reason? BT claims that the Flxibles are easier to get parts for than the RTS. How's that for service.
-F.
Yes, but here's the difference; Blackburg Transit is relatively small compared to other TAs with Flxibles such as MARTA, Miami-Dade, and CTA. It's easier to get a small amount of Flxible parts than it is to get a mass quantity.
Also, Blackburg transit has only four RTS. It wouldn't exactly be cost effective to purchase parts for a very small fleet of buses that are at their 12 year lifespan and can easily be resold. It also may be easier to locat Flxible parts in your region.
But if it were a fleet of 250 Flxibles and a fleet of 150 RTS, guess which would be the first to go?
Wow...I didn't realize you knew so much about BT. At the same rate, I think the Flxes would survive due to the larger number majority in that situation. The same may have held true for Blacksburg. And as far as I know, parts availability would be the same nationwide.
-F.
>>>Wow...I didn't realize you knew so much about BT.<<<
I read your posts. :-)
>>>At the same rate, I think the Flxes would survive due to the larger number majority in that situation.<<<
Perhaps, but getting parts for Flxibles can be hit and miss. It's not a shortage, but TAs always want to be cautious. and not take any chances. That's really the only reason why Flxibles are getting the heave ho.
>>>And as far as I know, parts availability would be the same nationwide.<<<
Not here.
Flxible Parts are available and in abundance via MCI/Universal Coach Parts, thanks to MCII buying the Flxible Parts line and Design Molds!
Kudos MCI!
Regards,
T.Lo
I agree; in fact, with their rich coachmaking background, I believe if MCI reintroduces the Metro, they could finally re-enter the market with a REAL transit bus at full force! With a combination of those good looks and MCI's good name, NJT would flock back in a hurry! And as some time passes, other TAs would be sure to follow, especially DC.
-F.
DC fell off with all of those damn Orion Vs. Orion probably wouldn't be in business now if Flxible hadn't died.
That's true. Those Orions look funny in DC. Basically they look like Gilligs with a thyroid problem. I say that DC is a Metro city, and not a constellation of Orion.
-F.
I like the Orion VI, but the WMATA paint scheme does not work for them. Yes, DC is a Metro city. To think, only a year gao, you had Netros, Orion Vs and VIs, GM New Looks, Flx New Looks, MAN, NABIs, and RTS-03s all ine one fleet. What a diffrence a year makes.
I was there last January and never saw any Flx New Looks or Fishbowls; DAMMIT! Put me in a DeLorean bus time machine and set the flux capacitor for 2000. No...a big silver Grumman. They're just as sleek (and infamous) as the DeLorean sports car. And it's equipped with a FLX CAPACITOR! Even better...I'll travel to 1995 so I can rat on that bastard that stole all of Flxible's money. Call Spielberg...let's make a movie of it. BUS TO THE FUTURE!
-F.
CTA's Flxibles are work buses and I'd rather ride the Flxibles anytime over there RTS buses.I'm sorry but I don't understand how RTS can be a better .First the front steps on CTA RTS buses are very shaky and unstable,while ones on Flxibles are stable.The rear wheel design on RTS buses doesn't allow legroom for riders sitting at the rear.And the seats blow on CTA's RTS vehicles.
I agree; I'd rather ride a Flxible than an RTS any day. For a LOT of reasons. I just feel more at home in a Flx.
-F.
Really - The new look Flxibles disappeared earlier in 2000, but the GM operated right into the summer of 2000.
Wayne
You probably could add the NYCTA to that list being that it is having trouble getting RTS's delivered from Nova plus the shoddy condition of the 4900's we have.That and success that the TA is having with the MCI Cruisers would make it sense to a transit bus from MCI.Long live the rolling shoeboxes known as the New Flyer,Orion and Flxible(MCI)
Rt108 Newark via Penn Sta./New York PABT Flxible Metro-D #3790
>>>You probably could add the NYCTA to that list being that it is having trouble getting RTS's delivered from Nova<<<
I take it you mean those RTS HEVs? Look at the Orion VII, that's what happens when you rush things. Hybrid technology is relatively new in the tranist market and NOVA doesn't want to have a Grumman disaster on it's hands.
Also, I notice that you all are quick to point out the faults of the NYCTA RTS, yet the Orions go basically unscaved and the NJT Flxibles (and Flxibles in general) are treated like saints.
The Novas aren't as bad as you all make them out to be. If D60HF, the most vocal RTS hater on the board AND an actual bus driver, says the Novas can take a ton of punishment, that's all I need to hear. I know that Nova soesn't make the best RTS, but I'm sure they'll run rings around Orions and similarly powered Flxibles.
The only transit bus that's worth a crap besides the RTS are the New Flyer buses. They're fast, reliable, and a add a high class look to the common box on wheels genre. A perfect match for the RTS. So long live the RTS and the box on wheels, D40LF.
Also, one last thing, no RTS, including NOVAs, fell apart during testing or has a fleet of them been pulled for severe mechanical problems. The few you see at Cummins are nothing compared to the mass retirement of Grummans. So you can rag on the RTS as much as you want, but more people in the industry will agree with me than you. I've never heard of any other transit bus besides the RTS called the most reliable and durable in the industry and the cadillac of buses. Out of 20,000 built (and being built) there are 16,000 still on the street.
Easy, GO TO NEWARK CENTRAL MAINTENANCE FACILITY AND YOU'LL FIND THAT THE FACILITY IS FILLED WITH NOVA RTS'S 97% of the TIME. WHILE MY PRECIOUS FLXIBLES RUN RINGS AROUND THE NOVAs!
And as for going back to Nova, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE! Orion is having problems (Financially), NABI is backing out of orders becuase they are overloaded and backlogged, and New Flyer really doesn't want to built High Floor buses any more, SO NOW WHAT, THAT LEAVES NOVA and GILLIG and NJT WILL DAMNED BUYING ANYTHING GILLIG! BELIEVE ME SUNNY JIM, IF FLXIBLE WAS STILL HERE, WE'D HAVE 650 NEW FLXIBLE METRO Es INSTEAD OF THESE CRAP ASS NOVAs!
ALSO WE HAD NO CHOICE, IT WAS A FEDERAL MANDATE ON THE ENGINES, ALL 2-CYCLE ENGINES HAVE TO BE REPLACED BY 2003. BY AGE, THOSE ENGINES WERE THE OLDEST. THUS THE REASON THE MCIs, VOLVOs and FLXIBLES HAVE TO GO!
BRING IT ON!!!!
Regards,
T.Lo
>>>Easy, GO TO NEWARK CENTRAL MAINTENANCE FACILITY <<<
Gonna buy my ticket? :-)
>>>AND YOU'LL FIND THAT THE FACILITY IS FILLED WITH NOVA RTS'S 97% of the TIME. WHILE MY PRECIOUS FLXIBLES RUN RINGS AROUND THE NOVAs!<<<
Series 50 and 6v92TAs out perform Cummins 9 times out of 10. So I'm sure you're right about that. But I bet if you had a fleet of DD6v92 RTS, they be the workhorse of the fleet.
>>>And as for going back to Nova, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE! Orion is having problems (Financially),<<<
If Orion is having so many problems, why is NYCTA going to them for over 500 buses. I don't agree with it but really.
>>>NABI is backing out of orders becuase they are overloaded and backlogged,<<<
I heard that's how Flxible went bankrupt. It had a backlog of over 1500 buses. Watch out NABI. At least you're right about one thing, Flxible was popular.
>>>BELIEVE ME SUNNY JIM, IF FLXIBLE WAS STILL HERE, WE'D HAVE 650 NEW FLXIBLE METRO Es INSTEAD OF THESE CRAP ASS NOVAs!<<<
Don't be too sure. I bet in 1991 no one believed that there'd be almost 900 Orions running around NYC either.
>>>ALSO WE HAD NO CHOICE, IT WAS A FEDERAL MANDATE ON THE ENGINES, ALL 2-CYCLE ENGINES HAVE TO BE REPLACED BY 2003. BY AGE, THOSE ENGINES WERE THE OLDEST. THUS THE REASON THE MCIs, VOLVOs and FLXIBLES HAVE TO GO!<<<
I know about the mandate. I'm young, but I keep up. Why couldn't you go for the series 50?
>>>BRING IT ON!!!!<<<
Just did and right back at cha!
1) Come to Jersey, I'll see if I can set you up a tour of the CMF!!!!!
2) Orion Answer......NYCT is being forced into the "Buy New York" deal, BTW Orion just layed off 900 worker, hmmmmmmmm not good! Also if you look MTA is Orion's biggest order as of right now, everyone else is small or have gone elsewhere.
3) 6v92 workhorse of the past!!!! Nuff Said!
4) Flxible's demised was not becuase of Back orders, it was because the president at the time was steeling money for personal use under the table, so if that guy was not in office, the Flxible would be still standing today! NABI is fine just backed up and NJT can't wait, however NJT has kept NABI for the Articulated order!
5) Oh I'm 200% sure, I had a chat with NJT Fleet Ops, and if Flxible was still around, NJT would've went straight to Flxible and not even had looked at Nova!
6) Why put a new engine in a 20 year old bus, learn mechanics young man, its not worth it. Same reason why MTA didn't put 50s in the 7xxx Series RTS. It's just not worth, that's like putting a Series 50 in a New Look.
7) You call that bringin' it on. Child's Play!
T.Lo
>>>NABI is fine just backed up and NJT can't wait, however NJT has kept NABI for the Articulated order!<<<
Only because Nova doesn't make artics.
I must admit you're good, but here's what I don't understand....
>>>Why put a new engine in a 20 year old bus, learn mechanics young man, its not worth it. Same reason why MTA didn't put 50s in the 7xxx Series RTS. It's just not worth, that's like putting a Series 50 in a New Look.<<<
I never said put a new engines in a twenty year old bus. I really don't recall what I said that sounded remotely like that. I believe I asked why you all didn't go opt for the series 50 instead of Cummins for the NOVA's.
OH I miss read that, that's because in our NJT transit style buses we just prefer Cummins! No clear explaination! We Love them that's about it!
Regards,
T.Lo
Not trying to jump into the debate, I have love for both the RTS and the Flxible ADB's, but on the engine front I always wondered why NJT is so crazy for Cummins engines in the transits, but the cruisers (except for 102D3 demo 8011)are exclusively Detroit Diesel. (which is cool with me). The S50 and S60 share a number of parts also, and I would think that the parts commonality alone would almost be enough to go with Series 50's.
That's a good question; they ran Detroit Diesels for a number of years. Actually, our TA (Valley Metro), a DD runnnner for ages, is going to Cummins for this year's new Gillig order due to first-year Series 50 problems in their 94s. Only time will tell how they will perform.
-F.
I agree on the 6v92 part; that would have made the RTSes some sweet runners. And the Series 50 seems to be a pretty good engine, despite early model drivetrain/turbine woes due to the newness of the engine.
As far as the NABI thing, it sounds a bit like what unfortunately happened at Flxible; they tried to fill too many orders at once. I really hope they don't do that as I like the NABI (mostly because its styling reminds me of the Flx Metro). NYC, in fact, had a big order of Flx Metros headed their way in 1996, but unfortunately the build date was a bit past the factory's closing. Pity. The Metro would have made a great bus for NYCTA as the bugs were ironed out well before 1996. All that could have possibly gone wrong were the newness of the 4-cycle engines.
The Orion thing was a surprise; while they are native, when I think of NYC buses, I automatically think of the RTS. At the same rate, I wish there were Flx Metros running the streets right along with them.
-F.
The FLX and RTS go hand in hand.
Yes, they do. And that's exactly my point. Thank you for agreeing with me on this one.
-F.
Orion would be as dead as the AM General! Or Barely hanging on by a thread!
Regards,
T.Lo
Half of Orions 1996-1999 orders were supposed to Flxibles. They'd be dead. No doubt about it.
Damn right. I'd rather have had some 1996-1999 Flxibles in DC. The only thing that would have POSSIBLY jinxed this was the fact that Flxes were popular and were great buses, so the bids were usually high. Then again, that never stopped WMATA when the Metro was still being made.
-F.
That's why we stopped getting RTS in Houston, the bid was too high. They went to Flxible after that. Then they went to Ikarus (ugh!).
Oh GOD...not IKARUS! Those are HORRIBLE...they look like something I ate and DROPPED! Guess they learned a lesson after that; you get what you pay for.
-F.
i like ikarus because they have good traction.
Ikarus was good only in Europe.But when Ikarus moved into Canada, Ikarus joined Orion & they both create one crap of a artic; Orion 3. Worst junk ever made, when it snow one atleast would slip. Oh and man they rusted so badly. And get this Toronto just put them back from the scrap yard because we can't afford new buses :(
Speaking on the Ikarus/Orion III, I read a while back that because of a shortage, the TTC might bring them back...God I hope not.
I always thought the Orion III looked a lot like two RTSes fused together.
-F.
first, my apologies to MCI Classic for saying in a post what you had already said about the Orion III, I didn't catch your entire post. OK, here's my questions:
1. Does TTC have funding troubles similar to many of the large agencies here in the states
2. I remember reading that TTC has historically had a pretty high farebox recovery rate. Is this still the case?
3. What is the public's general impression of the TTC?
I got to visit Toronto back in May, and I mangaed to trick some of my fellow choir buddies into essentially taking a tour through part of the TTC system, on 4 of the trolley lines (the 501, 502, 503 and 504), parts of the Bloor-Danforth and Yonge-University-Spadina subway lines, and the route 72. The system seemd very reliable and vast majority of the TTC operators and staff were very courteous and helpful, well except the driver of the 72 bus I was on that let us take 2 round trips on the route before he says "where are you guys trying to go?" to which we answered, The Esplanade (where our hotel was), and he just said, "Oh, I'm not going there". The confusion came from the fact that according to the map, the route 72A runs that way, but on casual observation there where a few buses signed for the 72 that went right past the hotel as well as had the same "PAPE-To Union Station/ via The Esplanade/ & Commissioners" reading that the 72A had. The 2 round trips weren't such a bad thing, since we ended up getting off at the Pape Avenue station and taking the subway anyway.
1. Does TTC have funding troubles similar to many of the large agencies here in the states
Yes and no. First, the Canadian federal government provides zero support to its urban mass transit systems for anything, except in very rare cases. Right now, there is new legislation in parliament to pump billions of federal capital dollars into urban transit projects. Second, about five years ago, the Ontario provincial government stopped funding TTC as well. During this era, service cuts and fare raises were semi-annual occurrences. Needless to say, all of this cause ridership to drop majorly.
On the other hand, the local and municipal governments in the GTA (common Torontonian lingo for 'Greater Toronto Area') recognize the need for good mass transit, so they have more recently begun to pick up a lot of the funding shortfalls.
2. I remember reading that TTC has historically had a pretty high farebox recovery rate. Is this still the case?
Absoulutely. Approximately 81 percent (and rising) of TTC costs are covered for by passenger fares. The balance comes from the aforementioned local funding.
This sometimes lets TTC get around restrictions on purchasing. For instance, the 7200-series RTS buses of TTC were purchased entirely by money generated from passenger revenue. Had provincial or local funding been involved, TTC probably would have had to buy Orion. Compare this to the US, where almost every bus in the country, for any TA, is purchased by 80 percent federal funds.
3. What is the public's general impression of the TTC?
I tend to think very good. TTC markets itself like a retail product. They have some very clever, very enticing advertising campaigns, and there is not a single person in the city who does not know where their nearest subway station is. Most people also know the streetcar and major bus routes as well.
The system seemd very reliable and vast majority of the TTC operators and staff were very courteous and helpful...
Usually the case on Canadian transit systems.
...the route 72A runs that way, but on casual observation there where a few buses signed for the 72 that went right past the hotel as well as had the same "PAPE-To Union Station/ via The Esplanade/ & Commissioners" reading that the 72A had...
All of the branches on the bus routes tend to confuse first-time users, but it is the branch-and-trunk system that really makes the bus routes so effective.
All in all, TTC truly is an exemplary transit system. What I really like is that they are not obsessed with stupid, trendy, and expensive technologies like voice annoucement systems and other crap like that. While many US TAs are busy struggling to keep new buses overloaded with whimsical technologies on the road, TTC sticks to the basics. They know what works, and they focus on it to constantly make it better.
TTC ridership has been rising steadily since 1997 after years and years of decline.
One funny addendum to the provincial funding issue:
TTC surface vehicles used to wear a decal on the interior that said "The Operation of this Transit Service is Financially Assisted by the Government of Ontario."
Thanks to some creative use of markers and Wite-out (TM), I have spotted signs altered to say "The Operation of this Transit Service Financially Assists the Government of Ontario."
That's actually closer to the truth!
Very true. And they do kinda look like a General...yup, just like the Seventies, if Flxible was still around, that other Brand X-looking thing would have gone over like a fart in church. And 20 years later, one Orion V would be rotting away at their grounds, while another would be kept in a transit museum because it would be rare since only a handful would have made it to WMATA and the company would have quit making when it was five years old. Meanwhile, its better-looking Flx contemporaries would still be running along without problems. Just like the AM General.
-F.
New Flyer would still be around though. They were booming long before Orion became a major player.
Yeah..but New Flyer could be dealt with. And Flxible could beat them out in style. In fact, a low floor Metro prototype was built shortly before closing, and no changes were made to the styling whatsoever. That would have been a major player, not unlike the stillborn RTS LF.
-F.
I liked the Grumman Flexible back when they first hit the streets of New York. I had a Friend that drove out of Ulmer Park depot. He felt theses buses would never last anymore than 5 years he was right. I got to ride in the first bus to be delivered to Ulmer Park the bus # 310 My friend may he rest in peace was being trained to operate this bus I was aloud to sit in the back of the bus out of the bus operators way. I was 21 years old then. I also wished that the Grumman buses would have lasted here it would have been interesting to see the flexible Metro in New York city color sheme.I have tremendious interest in buses.My first bus i ever rode was a Mack bus on the B-64 in Bklyn. I was 8 years old.I also love the G.M.C old look.The next bus that I liked was the New look 88oo Series out of Ulmer Park. I have alot of bus storys to tell will post soon hope to talk to ya soon Thanks very much.
Well, if that's the case, then it's just as well that they went to NJT. It would have been FOOLISH to retire a bus after 10 years. Especially a 1980 bus that looks just as modern today as it did in 1990. And wait a minute...didn't NYC rehab their RTSes a few times?
-F.
>>>And wait a minute...didn't NYC rehab their RTSes a few times?<<<
NYCTA buses go through GOH every few years. I believe there are three, five, nine, and twelve year GOH. Anyone form the TA can help me on this.
The RTS that were rehabbed were 15-16 year old 1981-1982 RTS buses. The Grummans were about two years old when they were pulled and rehabbed the first time. They were six when they got the second one. That's a big difference form the RTS rehabs.
Actually that program that you speak of came later on in NYCTA's life. In the mid 80's we send quite a few RTS's to places to get mid-life Rehabs. Then the TA started doing that themselves in the late 80's into 1990.
Peace
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Well I am going to have to get into this one now! I am not impressed with alot of the negative drama you have with the Flxible 870's. First off lets get to the real deal on the 870's and the rehab program. The Grumman 870 was designed and developed by ROHR Industries which did not test the 870 at all and when the sold Flxible to Grumman, the 870 was introduced to the market with no knowledge that ROHR passed on an unproven product. ROHR claimed that they had endurance tested 2 prototype 870's but the second one had modifications that probably led to the fiasco we are discussing now. With the 1979 introduction of the 870 the orders really took a big upswing to an interesting 1850 units by 1980. It was not until late 1980 that Grumman Flxible found out about the NYCTA 870 that failed in service due to a poor designed A frame. When the TA and other systems around the country started finding similar problems, Grumman decided to sue ROHR for neglagence. In the lawsuit Grumman was seeking $250 million dollars for compensation of the money Grumman spent to fix the A frame problem. In April of 1984 Grummans case was dismissed and the facts gathered were not even taken into consideration. The court found that Grumman could not sue ROHR for damages or anything related because of a disclaimer in the contract that stated ROHR did not have to dislcose any information that Grumman was looking for in regards to the 870, and they could not be sued for it either. ROHR was legally immune from this law suit.
Now the NYCTA 870's also had some unique issues of their own to make them cheaper per unit, like the use of a lighter frame for the engine that was in use at the time which was the Detroit Diesel 6V-71. That was a TA decision that Grumman warned strongly against them doing so. With TA and their stupidity and their very poor maintainance record the 870's were doomed as soon as they arrived on the property. I know you claim that the 870's were not a good product at Houston METRO but here in the NY/NJ area they were a success story. I suggest you read the new Flxible book that is out. You will learn alot and not sound so negative when you decide to make your comments. You can't change peoples minds about the way they feel about something no matter what you personally think about it, and don't try to force your ideas through peoples heads. Let folks decide for themselves what to think.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Hold it hold it hold it. I've stated numerous times before that I actually LIKE the Gumman 870s. But, that doesn't change the fact that for whatever reason, they will be looked at as failures. Plus, no one here seems to want to admit that Grumman and it's predecesors did shoulder part of the blame for them failing. Only through countless posts have I been able to get people to see that it wasn't just the fault of the TA that they had to get rid of these buses, but the manufactuer itself.
Also, if the TA had horrendous maintenance in the 80s as everyone claimed, why keep 850 of these problesm on the road. They already had to deal with overhauling aging Flx and GM New Looks to make the runs for 870s pulled out of service and continue ordering RTS to eventually replace those buses. They didn't have time to do another rehab of these buses. They did the right thing and sold them. If you combined the TA maintenance and the Grummans built in inadequacies, you don't get a pretty combination.
Also, the TA was smart in the fact that they knew they could come out looking good in this situation. As long as Grummans were failing all over the country, no one was going to look at the fact that NYCTA purchased a lighter frame to cut costs. They're going to say hey, "The Grummans with stronger frames are failing as well, it must not be the TAs fault." Flxible was really lucky to be able to get out of this situation alive and become a major player in the game.
As for forcing my thoughts, no, I'm just trying to get people to see the whole story. Not just what they want to see through rose colored glaases. I love the RTS, but I will acknowledge their problems and not defend them blindly ignoring very important facts. That's all.
Once again, I like the Grummans, but we can't change history and distort facts to make them look better than they were.
Regards,
Jason
What facts are you trying to point out? You keep saying you like Grummans yet, you are pointing out how much they had problems, the 870 series is the greatest bus ever made, sure it had its problems? Didn't RTS too have problems?
Tone
Transitworld.org
1. The fact that Grumman was at fault along with the TA
2. You can't change the past
3. Grumman 870s failed elsewhere besdies NYCTA, thus it just wasn't "their fault."
And yes the RTS-01/03s had problems. The main one was the much publicized A/C problem. It was quite overblown to say the least. The RTS weren't running around with cracked frames fropping their insides all over the place. Also, a fleet of 115 RTS-03s at WMATA lasted 22 YEARS!!!!! 22 YEARS!!!!! WMATA is a large fleet. Tell me one large fleet that kept a fleet of over 100 Grummans more than 20 years?
And the Grummans the greates bus ever produced. Let me give you a list of better ones....
1. Orion V
2. New Flyer D,C, and L40LF
3. RTS-II-01/03/04/06/08
4. GM New Look
5. Flx New Look
6. Any Flx built after 1984
Want more?
Yes Grumman too was at fault there A frame, but too the NYCTA is the main reason for the fall of 870's, there crappy maintence lead to there demise in NEW YORK CITY. They could have lasted, heck even if they got rehabbed one more time they could have made it threw along with 81 RTS' in NY but the NYCTA chose not to, they gave up on them, and just let them to rot, then when NJT took them, they preformed the greatest, heck i never remember the rebuilds have as many problems as the brand new nova buses we have when they first came to NJT. They ran awesome for NJT and will always be missed.
ALL I CAN SAY IS JUST BRING IT SON!
The NYCTA maintenance argument is old. If that's the case, the New Looks wouldn't have made it into the 90s. They could have easily given the New Looks the heave ho, instead the Grummans were shown the door. Why? Because they had TOO many problems. Why keep a problem bus?!?!? Let alone 850!!!!!
And you know what, kudos to NJT for taking a fleet of rejects and making them last twelve years after two or three rehabs. But the only reason NJT did it is because they thought hey, "Why buy a good bus at a large amount of money, when we can buy NYC rejects dirt cheap, and rebuild them to at least decent standards."
Had those buses been resold for what a fleet of six year old buses is really worth NJT would've just opted to buy something else, probably RTS.
and I doubt they performed "the greatest." A poster by the name of 11a said that the JBL Grummans had numerous problems including A/C leaks. That was a common problem with our Grummans even after being rebuilt to Metro standards! Here are some other problems the Grummans went through on a daily basis the other buses didn't (even the crappy Ikarus).....
1. Rust and corrosion
2. Panels falling off
3. Overheating daily
4. Stuck acceleration (when the A/ is even off)
5. Stuck rear doors
6. Mechanical failures other than overheating
7. Route signs working only 45% of the time
8. The loudest rattling ever heard on a bus
9. The chassis nearly falling into the street
10. A plethora of undetermined noises, squeaks, and groans that made it seem as if the bus was held together with tape.
11. A look of collapse.
12. A drivers comaprtment more cramped than any RTS. Drivers refused these buses because of this.
These occurences were an everyday thing for a fleet of 35 buses (in 1997) that were only used about 6 hours per day (morning and evening rush). These were rebuilds people. FROM THE GROUND UP!!!!!! They were only fourteen years old and going to pieces. Literally.
I hated to see them go because I loved the sound. That's it. Nothing else about these buses was very appealing. They looked like they were taken out of a scrap yard and put into service. That's the harsh reality. And we in Houston had EXCELLENT maintenance in 1997. So just imagine how horribly these buses performed in NYC with rougher roads and longer hours and the infamous deferred maintenance period of the 80s. Now do you see why NYC wanted something tough like the RTS?
<<<<<reason NJT did it is because they thought hey, "Why buy a good bus at a large amount of money, when we can buy NYC rejects dirt cheap,
and rebuild them to at least decent standards.">>>>>>>>
Actually! NJT was very smart along with other systems like Queen City Metro in Ohio who also purchased these same buses. The 870's in discussion were Remanufactured not Rehabbed. They were sold with a brand new bus warranty and that was not a bad deal at all. The deal with the NYCTA 870's are they were not as bad of a bus as they made them out to be. When you think about how bad the streets of New York were at the time and also Newark, NJ's which in some places were 100 times worse those 870's held up very well! I wrode them in NJ and I for one was quite impressed with quality of the Remanufacturing of these units. Now in the late 1990's they did not have the best A/C of the crop but they still held down the majority of the routes for NJT's local lines.
I have a question! What upgrades did the 870's at Houston METRO get to make them "METRO"? I am curious because there were over 100 improvements made to METRO and I can tell you there is a major difference between the two. Not including visuals, those are slight but noticeable.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
The 100 Grummans were sent back to Grumman to be rebuilt. They came back as Metro-As. They even had a 1983 builders plate as well.
Interesting! Thanx for the information.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
THAT IS A GREAT POINT THAT YOU MADE!
THANKS D.
TONE
www.transitworld.org
I like the list but I would not include the Orion V or the New Flyer units because they came about way after the 870. But the rest of the list I can agree with.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
It's called being paranoid! When NYCTA pulled their 870's off the road LACMTA then known as SCRTD pulled theirs also and there was nothing wrong with theirs at all! The TA has gotten alot of flack about the whole 870 fiasco and the last straw for them was when NJT purchased those buses that were refurbished not remanufactured and sold with new bus warranties and they continued to operate until 2000. That to me and alot of other people is remarkable. The 870 and the RTS were the first ADB's to be built under the then new "White Book" standards. Problems were unavoidable but again the 870's to me were blown way out of proportion! Just like the RTS 04 and 06 designs were improvements on the original so was the METRO. The TA had no choice but to use those other 870's becuase they were needed and weither your maintainance was tip-top or pure crap you will run new buses regardless if you can take care of them or not and the TA was no exception! Now on a lighter note! I too like the RTS as well and I agree with you and respect your input! Till next time!
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Thanks for clearing up the mystery as to why those Flxibles had so many problems. I thought it was because of poor maintenance and road conditions, but the strange thing is that NYCTA spec Flxibles continued in service with the privates till about the mid 90s. I was a regular rider of JB when they had the Grummans, and I observed many problems. Water dripping from the ceiling whenever the a/c was on was not unheard of. They may have been lemons, but I miss them.
This is true; if the maufacturer made a helpful suggestion about the product, the TA should have followed suit. An extra buck or so for assured quality and passenger safety should be what matters most to a transit service, and not nickels and dimes.
BTW, the Grumman 870 actually began production in April 1978.
-F.
"As for the Grummans lasting longer elsewhere, look where they went, LI Bus, Green Lines, and Jamaica. Hello people, those are smaller bus operations, definately not the same stress was put on those buses as in larger operating systems."
When was the last time you were in NY? I wouldn't call Green Bus Lines a small operation with little stress. Green Lines operates on the same NYC streets as NYCT buses do. They also operate at full capacity throughout the day. They are also a 24/7 operation.
Also, Lafayette and Greenville still has 2 870's 2112 and 2277 from NJT that are still in active service everyday, those buses won't quit. Also One Bus I believe still has 2240, These buses almost never break down. Green Lines in deed is not a small operation either, they are major operation in NY.
Long Live the 870!
Tone
www.transitworld.org
The Grummans are much better than the orion VII. I mean, Road Champs designed a bus and made it to be a Flexible Metro-as close to a grumman as possible. Wouldnt it been interesting to see Road Chamsp have done either a RTS,NOVABUS or Orion? Guess we will never know.
Yes, and I will always praise Road Champs for doing so. They did a great job on a nice bus. And they are fun to customize into other TA schemes. Here are some examples:
members.aol.com/Fredman176/myhomepage/grumman1.jpg
members.aol.com/Fredman176/myhomepage/metrobus.jpg
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
My statement stands. But first, let's get something straight.....
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE IN NYC TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT NYC TRANSIT!!!!!!!
My statement stands because GBL buses don't get switched around as much as NYCTA buses would. Most of the privates operate in Queens. The majority of their swaps are inter-borough. NYCTA buses get switched from Manhattan to Queens to Staten Island to Brooklyn to the Bronx and back to Manhattan. Plus, the MTA has longer routes, more people, more stop and go routes, and the borough streets are in different conditions with different terrain. You have to look at all of those factors. So yes, they went to SMALLER systems where they suffered LESS STRESS.
Buses between the companies operated by the NYCDOT do get switched around and it is more often than you think.Plus I wouldn't call the Q11 or Q60 (or the Q113 for that matter).If you looked at a Queens Bus Map you would see for yourself that these routes are quite lenghty.
Q11 Orion V #5501
Q60 Orion V #5503
Q113 Grumman 870 #420(now retired)
[When the Grumman-Flxible 870 Model A was introduced in 1978, TAs gobbled them up like hotcakes.]
No - Not quite that way. MARTA (Atlanta) was the first transit agency to receive the Grumman Flxible 870. NYCTA/MABSTOA did not start getting theirs until 1980. Now MARTA is not nearly as big as NYCTA, but I wouldn't call it a small system. I know that their (1978) 870's were in service as late as 1993 and possibly longer.
Although I've been a big fan of the 870 (and Metro successor) from the day they were introduced - I have no problem admitting that they certainly had their faults. The TA would've loved to for everyone to have you opinion of the Grumman 870 to cover up their own sub-par maintenance practices. I'm a firm believer that when the Grumman crisis started (NYCTA pulling 637 buses, SCRTD pulling 230 buses) they were quick to do their part and retrofitted a total 2656 buses.
I'm no bus maintainer, but because I grew up in NYC and spent many years riding the buses/subways as well as being a transit enthusiast as far back as I can remember - I feel I can definitely comment on the maintenance (or lack of) at the TA. First of all in the late 70's all of NYC was still feeling the effects of the financial crisis. The NYCTA buses and subways were in very bad condition which is another reason I think the fishbowls are perhaps the greatest transit bus to roll in NYC, but that's another discussion. My point is the TA's maintenance was horrible and again I know this because I was there riding the buses and subways (not second-hand info passed on to me). This being said... It's my opinion that the TA tried to cast extra blame on Grumman for their own poor maintenance practices. Gurmman did their part - NYCTA sat around and pointed fingers when they should've look to themselves.
We know that NYCTA now maintains buses very well, but this did not happen until well into the 1980's.
Wayne
Exactly. NYCTA screwed up by over-specs on the Grummans. If they were equipped properly they would have been just fine.
-F.
I agree that there is a strong "Buy NY" thing going there. But if these are shoddy buses, it's only going to make the local economy look shabby as well and make New York a laughinng stock among local industries and bus manufacturers nationwide.
Also, I resent that the Grummans are referred to as "rejects"; they were merely passed off to a TA which had the patience to fix what was wrong with the coaches and make them useful. Those are among my favorite buses of all time, and what's more, I grew up with them.
Another note: I didn't know that Bee Line received ex-NYCTA Grummans as well; I did know that they have a large Flx Metro fleet. Anyone able to clarify this? Let me know as I'd love to learn more.
-F.
Poor Gleason. He must be rolling over in his grave knowing those ugly New Flyer spinoffs are going to be housed in a building of his namesake. At least the Old Looks of his show's era had some style to them. I'd be happy if all those hideous VIIs were shoved in an exploding rocket and sent "Bang, ZOOM....To the MOON!"
Of course, if MCI was to reintroduce the Flx Metro and NYC bought a slew of them, we could all look to the Big Apple and say...."How SWEET it is!".
Ralph Kramden, may God rest your soul and help us all.
-F.
Last week I went down to Harran to apply for a driver position, and I came away with some interesting stuff. Their fleet consists of the Prevosts from about 1992, American Eagles and MCIs. When I was leaving I saw a AE and a MCI go out one behind the other. The Prevost was sitting in the garage. I could only see the headlights, didn't catch the number. I also learned that on runs going to Atlantic City, the drivers get a flat rate. Same things for charters. You get the hourly rate if you're working a mass transit route. They have a separate depot just for that; CBS Lines in Coram. In the meantime, I'm applying at Hampton Jitney for a driver position. I probably will not get it, but I wanna see how things go.
Good luck in your job search and congrats on graduation from CDT, Inc.
I didn't know that CBS Lines, Inc. was part of Harran. I know that threre used to be a called Coram Bus Service that had transits and some MCI-9's for charter work. They went bankrupt and I guess Harran formed CBS Lines as a seperate subsidiary. IIRC there is a scene in the Al Pacino movie "Author, Author" where he and his kids are looking at the reviews in the NY Times from a newstand in Times Square. As they are searching the paper for a review, a Coram Bus Service MC-9 rolls left to right in the background across 44th Street.
I also believe that around the time of the CBS lines formation, Harran also had a seperate charter or line-run company called Island Coachways in the same white with red stripe livery.
I didn't even know there was a company called Coram Bus Service. You learn something new every day. This morning, on my way in for my DOT physical, I saw a Harran AE coach, but with a different livery. This one was all red, not the usual red and white. Most of the AE's I know have a little electronic sign intergrated below the windshield, this one had no such sign. Maybe the ones with the sign are in mass transit service. As usual, I didn't catch the number. Some bus fan I am. She was carrying no passengers, so she must have just left the depot on either an AC or a charter run. Back at CDT, it seems like RTS bus 148 is out of service, so they were charging the batteries of the ex NYBS Fishbowl. I think the number is 2719. Don't hold me to that, I was too far away. Chances are I will be going back, so I will have more news in the future. Thanks for the kind words.
You definitely were too far away. When I was last at CDT (no camera, damn) on 7/14/00 they had three fishbowls according to my old BT post # 17440.
They were #'s 1370, 1376 & 1378 which according to the Ohio Museum of Transportation website (www.omot.org) represent :
T6H-5308A's serial 220,298 & 300.
One of them looked like it wasn't road worthy, one had its door caved in (probably from a Tractor-Trailer student not backing in carefully) and the third one looked lousy also.
The RTS's were on the property so I doubt that they would buy additional fishbowls. Also I don't think that NYBS's numbers run into the 2700's
You're right, the door on one of them was damaged. That one sat in the yard for the whole time I was training. Also, now that you mentioned it, NYBS didn't number their Fishbowls in the 2700 series. SIlly me. I'm just sad that I didn't get to train on one. My only experience with a fishbowl was with a mockup of one at the Transit Museum many moons ago. I asked my instructor at the beginning why were they out of service, but he was very vague about it. But, in one of the many pictures inside, they were used for training before the RTS buses came. And they were in better shape.
Where is this, with the 3 Fishbowls ?
CDT is Commercial Driver Training, Inc. It trains a person to be a truck or bus driver. It is located at 600 Patton Avenue in West Babylon. It is on the corner of Patton Avenue and Pinelawn Road, just north of Edson Avenue (near Harran) where all the cemeteries are (Pinelawn, New Montefiore, etc).
I decided to give myself a luxury ride home tonight and boarded the X29(MCI #2196 run oo5)-i let the first one go by (#2201) cause it was crowded. When i got on #2196, it had 2 wheelchairs in it. The driver was fast and got them off in less than 5 minutes. She said the passengers told her that the driver before her(which was #2201-run 002) did not know how to do the wheelchair. Did all the drivers at YUK,CAS and ULP learn to do the wheelchair, or only a few?
X29-#2196-MCI-005
Look to me that Driver forgot how to use wheelchairs & all NYCT drivers must learn to use wheelchairs. I know some driver don't like to lift the wheelchairs & all they tell them it that it not working & use the next bus.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
If these two W/C passager are smart, witch most are if they ride the express they would right a letter to the MTA about the driver. All driver a requirded to sign next to there name on a list when you are trained on anything new that are in buses, they are also pay extra money the learn anyhing new. If he did take the class and refused them, then he would get wrote up. If he did not take the class then he will also get writen up as well.
Robert
This was not the best day for SEPTA from a reliability factor. Mother nature, terrible traffic, and other factors contributed to several major delays system-wide:
* - The major nightmare is the R5 Lansdale line, where service has been cut off between Ambler and Fern Rock, due to a washed out bridge south of Fort Washington. Trains are operating between Doylestown/Lansdale and Ambler, with shuttle buses operating between Ambler and Fern Rock, then trains again from Fern Rock to Center City and Paoli/Thorndale. With the delays on the Lansdale branch, a lot of delays can be expected on the Paoli line, since the Lansdale and Paoli branches are interlined via the tunnel on most days.
* - The second major nightmare is north of Jenkintown on the R2 Warminster line, which is also affecting the R5 Lansdale line. As a result, Warminster passengers are forced to transfer to buses at Fern Rock, then bused all the way to Warminster, instead of sending the trains through to Glenside, which would make more sense (but this is SEPTA we're talking about here).
* - While the R3 West Trenton line is running through service to West Trenton, there were delays between 15-20 minutes due to track work on the former Reading mainline. One mid-day West Trenton/Elwyn train pairing was annulled due to a train breakdown. (I can confirm this, because I saw a SEPTA diesel locomotive (#60) towing the disabled train back to Wayne Jct. while waiting for over an hour for the West Trenton train.
* - The Market-Frankford El was operating shuttles along the Frankford side due to a gas leak in the area of Kensington & Allegheny during the AM peak period.
* - The Subway-Surface lines are presently on diversion routing as I write this (around 7:30pm) due to wire problems at 33 St in the westbound tunnel. Hopefully, this will be restored by later tonight.
* - The 10 trolley began bus substitution today due to track work along Lancaster Av.
* - Route 29 trackless trolley service was operating with buses due to downed wires along Morris St (I haven't confirmed the exact location yet).
* - During the AM peak, several Frontier routes were affected by detours due to the Upper Moreland area flooding (98 was detoured around the Bell Tavern Rd area near Willow Grove this AM) or to police activity (92 was detoured away from PA 100 due to some sort of an accident clean-up at the 30 Bypass; this also affected the 133 as AM Peak trips on the 92 are interlined with the 133, and vice versa).
But besides these problems, everything was fine... =)
Hi Everybody I have been reading this board for about a year know and this is my first post.I have a great love for Subways and buses. I have enjoyed reading posts of several people and would like to get to know the people who contribute information. I will be posting things that i see while on my journeys during the course of the days that i travel.I love collecting Memorabilla and model buses and Subway cars. I hope you guys will welcome me aboard talk to ya soon.
Hi.
"YOU ARE ON ROUTE 45 GOING TO BUSTALK LAND". "RIDERSHIP ON THIS LINE HAVE BEEN GOING UP LATELY!!". So welcome aboad. And please take a seat before the bus moves. And thank you for rideing BUSTALK Transit. Have a nice day :).
What's up. Just joined a few days ago myself. Find a seat.
Keep an eye out in the coming events section if you want to meet some of us. I'll be doing a Field Trip to the Beaches of Rock & Long in a few weeks ... A train to Far Rockaway, LI Bus to Long Beach, LIRR or LI Bus back to Brooklyn/Queens ... all after work some warm evening.
Can you think of a better way to watch the sun set ?
Gary here just did a last minute trip from Queens to SI. He included a little more bus riding then I would have liked, but then I just WORK for a bus company ;-)
Mr t__:^)
Keep an eye out in the coming events section if you want to meet some of us. I'll be doing a Field Trip to the Beaches of Rock & Long in a few weeks ... A train to Far Rockaway, LI Bus to Long Beach, LIRR or LI Bus back to Brooklyn/Queens ... all after work some warm evening.
Can you think of a better way to watch the sun set ?
Gary here just did a last minute trip from Queens to SI. He included a little more bus riding then I would have liked, but then I just WORK for a bus company ;-)
Mr t
Most of the 100s and 200s that I have seen in Manhattan have been repowered. Mostly MCH buses. I guess they are going along well with them and the stored Orions. The RTSs will be next to go -- seeing them probably in bunches.
PS. - Wouldn't it be interesting if say The 1700s in QV and 1826, 1852, 2270, 2660, and other (if any) stored 81-82 RTSs were repowered???
So what's the deal with these VIKINGS by New Flyer? (996-998) I guess they love sitting at Detroit/Atlantic Diesel.
Is there any chance of seeing them soon??? I really want to ride on one.
Just speculation on my part, but the D45S is really going to have to prove itself to be a better coach than the MCI 102DL3/D4500, or there's no reason to continue the purchase. Look at NJT. Didn't even blink when it came time to replace the MC-9s. Called up MCI, got two demos, ran them for over 2 years, then bought over 1200 more.
NYCT now has almost 500 MCIs - that puts them 3rd behind Greyhound Lines and NJT as the largest direct operators of MCIs (Coach USA has more, but they're dozens of smaller operating companies). If the New Flyer D45S threatened MCI, the repeat orders from NYCT prove otherwise.
I agree...when the Over the Road Coaches were first being ordered, the Viking was looked at as an alternate to the MCI. But with the amount of MCI's NYCT has committed themselves to now, I can't see them all of a sudden switching to NF Vikings.
Shaun
Okay, changing the subject. What is up with your website? Your "elimanated signs" section and the "bus pictures" section come up "YAHOO Geocities........." This is from your bus man page. Can you fix the problem so that we busfan can enjoy it. It is a good website, share it with the busfans of NYC and the surrounding areas. Thank you.
Ray
If New Flyer would have come in meeting MTA speck in the first place, we might have seen some Vinking on the raod now. This is what happin when you don't meet the coustmer needs. They find some the compney to work for them.
Robert
I'm sorry Roberty BUT NO!
The Viking was based off of specs by a Compilation of talking to different transit's. The MTA speced the Viking based off what they needed and what they could get. The MTA's Vikings are tail ends off the Houston METRO order, BUT are TA spec.
So the TA knew the buses were that tall and such before the buses even arrived on the property, WHAT THE TA DIDN'T DO is measure true height of the the depots. So That's TA Studpidity, NOT New Flyer! New Flyer is one of the best manufacturer's around right now for meeting customer's need and customer support! Can't say that for Nova!
Regards,
T.Lo
Is there any planned use for these 3 buses 996-998 anytime soon or are they going to collect dust?
The Vikings are a great-looking bus; in fact, they're the best looking thing I've seen from Flyer since their New Look-style coaches of the 60s and early 70s (the slanted-window type, not those awful straight-window hybrids). Now THOSE were good lookers. Oh yes, and the Invero. I like it for its expansive glass and retro-style looks. Once again, a Fishbowl influence, this time in a new, ultramodern bus.
It's refreshing to see such stylish coaches from someone who usually cranks out ugly, thoughtless boxes on wheels.
-F.
This afternoon while strolling around Bloomfield after finals (with a certain female friend), I made 2 wierd observations, as well as another later in the evening.
1) 1996 NovaRTS 2708 on the #709 (no 96 Novas have previously run out of Market Street)
2) 1999 Nova #1399 (an Orange Garage bus) on the #709
3) 1999 Nova #1371 (also an OG bus) also on the #709
The 1st sighting really turned my head because it was quite unusual seeing a 96 Nova on an MS route.
Obviously some shifting of buses is going on here.
ctrabs74, kcram3500, and/or D4000, can youze shed some light on this?
thanks.
I wouldn't be surprised if the 709 was split or completely shifted to Orange. Much easier deadhead to Bloomfield from there. Market Street is pretty far from both Bloomfield and Paramus.
It could also be equipment issues at Market Street. RTSes are doing duty on some of the NYC routes (171, 175, 178, 182) because the MC9As are not holding up well. I live along the 178, and I have seen every type of bus Market Street has on that route in the last year.
That sounds like a feasible move to me, but then again, South Jersey is more my territory... =)
I would guess that Trevor would know more than I would, since he is the NJT guru, especially in North Jersey.
709 is not split at all!
The 709 is a full Market Street Line! Only the first pull outs on the 709 leave the garage. For the whole day, the 709 is relief runs! My mother operated the 709 for two picks when she was at Market Street. It is very possible that several break downs happened. If the break downs are in Bloomfield, Orange and other Facilities in that area provides the buses for the swap. Or the other like scenario is that there is a equipment swap going on as at one point Market Street had about Five (5) 27xx Series Novas. The New Novas seem to be moving quite frequently too!
I will talk to the Northern Division head in the morning and see what the dillio is!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Well since I had a day off, I decided to head over to SI once again. Had a few Redbirds on the Way Downtown to catch the X17. 9743-too crammy-got off to wait for the N which didn't comw so I got 9324, a fan car-but was pumping pretty cool air. Got off at Times Square to catch the 2- car 8879. Took to Park Pl where going towards 241 St was 6311-6320, the Yankee Subway Series wrap which was removed for some reason that's unknown.
Now onto the Buses: got 1939 on the X17. This bus had a very smooth ride, however on the Expwy, it seemed like it was going so slow. All of the MCI's that I've taken to SI have been this way. I wonder if they're Government regulated at 45 mph? Well it was a great ride to Yukon where I walked around and saw GMC TMC Orions and MCI all over the place. Then I wanted to ride to the SIRR. I took the S59 Bus 6253-slow bus-no take off whatsoever. Took to SIRR Eltingville Sta where I waited 25 minutes for SIRR. Took to very end-Totenville where I saw Arthur Kill River and Outerbridge Crossing. Decided to head back onto the same train as I was on but different car. Got off same place as where I got on and got a drink at BK. Wanted to go back to Yukon to see if 2270 would come out or not. Took 6199 S59. Ugly bus "doodle" all over it but good part was that it had some attractive looking females on it. Then I got off b/c I saw 4482 on S55. Had double rear window installed behind back doors-right side.
Rode pretty good. Then I was back at Yukon. Saw 3944 4011 4046 4463 4892 140 and some MCI sitting in there. 2270 was far in the back-I saw it from a very far distance but I could tell it was 2270. I wanted to ride on an RTS to go to SI Ferry. I saw 8312 sitting at the stop waiting to go on S61. Got on it-ride was slow but moving until a wheelchair passenger got on at Victory Blvd. Got off at Clove Rd and decided to find SJU SI Campus. Saw that the S60 which I'm calling the Pitchfork goes via Howard Ave. Took 6174 to same place as where I got on-strange. Got 6325 S66 to get to Ferry.
SI Orions are in horrible shape-everything from doodle to slow buses to a broken seat-(on 6174). Wassup with them?
After Ferry got 4 train 1385 to 59 St Got N 4340 TO Q'Boro Plaza then 7 #9699 to go home.
Now I'm sleepy-LOL.
X17#1939Gary
Two weeks ago i was in Castleton Depot during ridecheck almost 10 hours & the bus i got on is #6317 am & #6267 pm both buses run very good & fast. I spoke to driver who said older Orion Buses run slow & newest buses run pretty fast that never broke down.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
Consider yourself lucky...You rode two World's Fair Cars 9324 & 9743
3- Rode 9699 to go home. I would've rode 9532 but she was going Express as I was going local. I consider myself very lucky.
Q32#9612Gary
What do you mean express? Bus 9532 is not an express buses! You mean "Not In Service"? Bus 9699? Is that bus with Kingsbridge? If you ride the Q32, you must mean either 9609 or 9619.
Ray
9532 Express is on the 7 train. 9699 is also on the 7 train. If I meant the Q32, I would mean 9609. 9619 is at Quill.
Q32#9609Gary
M20#9619Gary
Okay, so that meant that the #7 train broke down and buses 9532 and 9699 were shuttle buses?
Did you went inside Yukon Depot? I might take a vist to there on July 4 right after I take photos of buses at BusFest. I would be at BusFest on July 4. So who's ever comming I see ya there. And I hopeing to get to meet Ry-Trans-it. I would be wearing a BLACK Hat. And I have Pimples on my face b/c most Teens get pimples. I am 13 Years old. So don't say I UGLY :(. I have some girls in my class at school are calling me UGLY. And on the day SEPTA Roadeo comes. I would be with my MOM. And my MOM don't want me to talk to other people at the Roadeo. BUT you could see me at the SEPTA Roadeo this saturday. BUT I won't talk BTW. And I going to be by myself on July 4 at BusFest. So I won't mind to just talk to a few people there for a bit.
I won't be on BusTalk from the Evening of June 22 to the Afternoon of June 24. On the 22. I have to go to sleep early I getting up at 5 in the Morning. Leaveing by 6:15 in the Morning. And won't be on BusTalk from the Morning of July 2 to the Evening of July 5. I would be at Grandmas house in NYC at that time. And Grandma don't have internet acess. So now only if I have a Laptop with a Moble Internet acess.
Today, while skipping work on a gorgeous Monday, my buddy and I took off for Ocean City, MD since its only three hours away from DC. Once on Coastal Hwy, the main drag there, I took a doubletake as a Baltimore MTA NABI artic #9618 rolled past. I couldn't see if it was in service or not, or if it was just there on a charter, but then I saw it later, along with 9613 and 9616 running the Inlet to Delaware Line run that is normally run by OC's own Thomas buses that they have. I don't know if there are more than 3 artics down there or not, but as the day went on, they were packed with people riding up and down the strip. The bus only costs $1 there and you get a transfer that lets you ride all day, so its definitely a bargain. I feel sorry for those poor buses as they will be in pretty rough shape if they are down for the whole summer with all the people, particularly those that use it when all the clubs shut down around 2AM.
That's All I Have To Say To That!!!!!!!! Long Post, Long Day! Need Sleep!!!!
Regards,
T.Lo
All I got to say is: That's Coming in about a month!
"T.Lo"?
I'm not even gonna comment . . .
LOL . . .
--Chris
Saw bus 1972 on X4 this morning. On the right side of the bus, there was an ad for Alitalia. It read:
"LETS CREATE A BUZZ." - had 2 women on either end.
Someone decided to pen something in following this line in a marker. It read:
"SMOKE A JOINT!"
Let's see how long this ad lasts.
Original, anyhow.
C
I have noticed alot of those Yukon Busses with distorted advertisements. One advertising the news on Channel 2 has the anchor faces all written on. Guess the busses are an easy target for kids since they are parked out in the street.
As junior-high-schoolers, we used to mark up the WJLA Channel 7 anchors on Washington Metro ads -- missing teeth, crossed eyes, etc. Sounds like nothing's changed.
C
Speaking of bus advertising, BusTalk needs a spiffy logo like SubTalk has. My submission:
Looks really cool! Submit it to Dave Pirmann.
Thank you!
I'll submit it to him soon, although if he sees this message he can just take it and stick it on, if it meets his standards.
--Chris
Thats great! It looks like the Subtalk logo!
Ooh, very nice. I like it!
-F.
I just got a crazy idea; how about a black Flxible Metro with a red scanner light on the front, a la Knight Rider? Then you could have a "talking bus" for a BusTalk logo. It would all come together full circle!
-F.
An RTS would work for the "talking bus" idea as well; like the Kight Rider Trans Am, it is a sleek design.
-F.
OK it's just about time. I've just got a report from heypaul ... yes he's still alive and well, running a site called ToiletTalk ... anyhow he's come back from the becah and says the water temp. is rising. He didn't stay very long because he hates to get those cigarette butts between his toes.
In the next two or three weeks I lead a group on a long but very enjoyable trip from Main Street Flushing to Manhattan to Jay Street then the A train to Far Rockaway (I'll provide estimate times so you can join the trip at these 3 points). There we take a LI Bus (John it's very flat so the bus will run just fine) to Long Beach. Some Volley Ball in the sand or some subway sand tunnel building or just get your toes wet (there's an eatery right there on the Boardwalk). Then it's either LIRR back to Brooklyn or LI Bus N15 to Rockville Centre, then N4 to Jamaica. You CAN do it all on a Fun Pass ... that is unless you also want to take a City of Long Beach bus, which would be an extra fare.
I already have a "core" group ready to go, so I am doing the trip !
Either respond here or directly via e-mail so I have some idea of how many want to come AND what week-day seems to be the best. Since it's a long trip we won't be stopping much along the way, so I'll do my best to talk you thru the points of interest. However, we'll wait for a railfan window, of course.
Mr t__:^)
Did anybody answer my "depots" question? I wanted to know what bus routes did the OLD KB Depot have because I know that the Bx12 did not come from GH back in the 1970's and to at least 1988.
Ray
My guess is that one of them was the M100, in the days when it ran to Riverdale. Maybe the Bx7 and Bx20 also, since their southern terminals were not too far of a hop away.
Before the Gun Hill open in 1989. Old Kingsbridge Depot have Bx1,Bx2,Bx3,Bx7,Bx9,Bx10,(Bx12 now in GH),Bx13,Bx18,Bx20,Bx26,Bx28,Bx29?,Bx30?,Bx32,Bx34,Bx35?,Bx36?,Bx41,Bx55,(M100 now in Amsterdam). I don't have enough information about the Depot routes & try to ask someone who know about the past.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
I thought Coliseum had some of those routes and was the OLD KB Depot's patch yellow bacground with a dot or something because I saw this on the Flexible New Looks (Buses 7032, 7070, 7107, 7120, 9053, 7588, 7564, and others.) Is it possible you could post the roster of the Flexibles as well. Thanks for your info Dave.
Ray
As follows:
Bx 1
Bx 2
Bx3, formerly Bx38
Bx 7
Discontinued Bx 24, the once an hour bus from Riverdale to Fordham Plaza
Bx 9, formerly Bx 20
Bx 10
M 100
X 61, the discontinued competition for Liberty's BxM 3 (?)
The Bx 12 I think was Coliseum based before Gun Hill
Any others fill in
Thank you whoever sent this!
I should have noted its from my recollection of thought. living in Kingsbridge most of my life, I do remember small things like the KB on the fareboxes, the coin clattering, those annoying passengers playing shave and a haircut with the stop bell cords. How times have changed in NY. Any other routes missing, forgive me.
"Discontinued Bx 24, the once an hour bus from Riverdale to Fordham Plaza"
Ohhhhhh! So that is why there is a sign in the Fordham "D" station exit that indicates a transfer to the 24. Previously, I had absolutely no recollection of there being a Bx24.
Yet, since the route has long been dicontinued, why hasn't the Bergen st sign shop replaced it? Or better yet, why hasn't it been covered over.
Here are the assignments in the late 70's/early 1980's of all TA/OA routes in The Bronx.
In the early 1980's many routes were renumbered and shifted to different depots also.
OLD CURRENT ROUTE#
BX1 BX1 - KB
BX2 BX2 - KB
BX3 BX17 - KB
BX4 BX34 - COL
BX5 BX5 - COL
BX6 BX30 - COL
BX7 DISC - COL
BX8 BX8 - COL
BX9 BX31 - COL
BX10 BX7 - KB
BX11 BX11 - KB
BX12 BX12 - COL
BX13 BX22 - COL
BX14 BX16 - COL
BX15 BX28 - COL
BX16 BX16 - COL
BX17 BX26 - COL
BX18 BX18 - COL
BX19 DISC - COL
BX20 BX9 - KB
BX21 DISC - OFS???
BX22 BX14 - COL
BX23 BX8 - COL
BX24 DISC - KB
BX25 BX32 - WF
BX26 BX21 - WF
BX27 BX27 - WF
BX28 BX39 - WF
BX29 BX15 - WF
BX30 BX19 - OFS
BX31 BX19 - WF
BX32 DISC - WF
BX33 BX33 - WF
BX34 BX6 - KB
BX35 BX35 - KB
BX36 BX36 - WF
BX37 BX13 - KB
BX38 BX3 - KB
BX40 BX40 - COL
BX41 BX41 - KB
BX42 BX4 - WF
BX49 DISC - COL
BX52 DISC - COL
BX54 DISC - COL
BX55 BX55 - KB
X61 DISC - KB
M100 M100 - AMS
Q44 Q44 - FLU
I hope this helps...
Wayne
Thanks Wayne! Just one question, what is OFS?
OFS is now what is know as MCH
OFS is what? I know MCH is Mother Clara Hale! OFS is .........Old Farms Square? What?
Ray
My Guess - OFS is One hundred Forty Six or One Forty Six - Former name for MCH.
Oh gee! I feel stupid now. You could have just said "146th St" instead of "OFS". I was going crazy! Thank you.
Ray
I'm in the habit of using the letters from the old days when TA/OA buses had the depot letters on the farebox.
Wayne
I apologize. Here it is along with others
OFS - 146th Street (Now Mother Clara Hale)
OHS - 100th Street (Demolished)
OTS - 132nd Street (Demolished and Manhattanville built on the same site)
FFS - 54th Street (Demolished
Wayne
It's okay, thank you for the info. I really do appreciate it.
Ray
David, there was no BX29 back in that time. I due believe it was the BX52 or BX54 going to City Island Av. However, I due believe that the Bx23 and Bx24 came from the KB depot to because the other depots were Coliseum, 146th St and West Farms(later closed and then Walnut opened). Hey, I got an idea, is it possible that you could posted all the depots and the routes from the 1970's to at least 1995? (I'll settle for the 80's) No need for the 1996 and on because I know it. I would be most grateful.
Ray
The BX29 back then was the BX15 today if i recall. And the BX12 went all the way to city island.
[...there was no Bx29 back in that time.]
The old Bx29 became the current Bx15.
-----
[I due (sic) believe it was the Bx52 or Bx54 goint to City Island Av.]
The old Bx52 was the summer-only service from Co-op City to Orchard Beach. It ran out of Coliseum.
The former Bx54 (once the Bx5A) was interlined with the Bx5, and ran from whatever depot had the Bx5.
-----
[I due (sic) believe that the Bx23 and Bx24 came from KB because the other depots were Coliseum, 146th, and West Farms....]
First of all, the Bx23 (Crosby Avenue) was merged with the Bx8 in 1989, and was assigned to Coliseum prior to 1989.
Second, you're saying that the Bx23 MUST have been at Kingsbridge BECAUSE Coliseum existed? The Bx23 was on the other side of the Bronx - a pull-out from KB would have PASSED Coliseum en-route to Crosby Avenue.
Thank you for your time and effort.
Ray
David, there was no BX29 back in that time. I due believe it was the BX52 or BX54 going to City Island Av. However, I due believe that the Bx23 and Bx24 came from the KB depot to because the other depots were Coliseum, 146th St and West Farms(later closed and then Walnut opened). Hey, I got an idea, is it possible that you could posted all the depots and the routes from the 1970's to at least 1995? (I'll settle for the 80's) No need for the 1996 and on because I know it. I would be most grateful. If you can post the depots from the past. No pressure.
Ray
The following is the CURRENT Ulmer Park Run List for EVERY Route( i was up there today and copied the lsit-though i did not see the X25 Run list-maybe someone can explain it to Me)
B1:
WK-48 SA-28 SU-25
B3:
WK-36 SA-26 SU-20
B4:
WK-28 SA-21 SU-16
B6:
WK-(school open=78/school closed=72) SA-61 SU-44
B36:
WK-(school open=34/school closed=30) SA-21 SU-17
B64:
WK-15 SA-15 SU-11
B74:
WK-7 SA-4 SU-3
X27:
WK-33(has 5 runs as School Trips:-009,016,018,019 and 022 for B1)
X28:
WK-42(has 3 runs as School Trips:-022,025 and 034 for B1)
X29:
WK-13(has run 013 for School Trip on B36)
There is no X-25 run list. All AM work on the X-25 is performed by Operators who have just completed X-27 or X-29 trips, and all PM work is performed by Operators who are about to do X-27, X-28, or X-29 trips.
David
Does any body have an update on any changes in TA Express or Atlantic Express Bus Service to replace the Academy Bus Routes
Thank You
No real news just Jay O'Donovan's posturing.
From the SI Advance--
http://www.silive.com/news/advance/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/news/99304560337971.xml
Academy (like predecessors Domenico, Staten Island Commuter, and something with a 'Q') have always operated without official sanction. They have never been franchised, like the routes in Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx. Thus they don't have to provide service if they don't want to. At least they gave warning. One of the other companies that called it quits out here just one day didn't show up. Domenico went out when the city marshal seized their buses to pay back taxes.
THe fun thing in all this, that seems to have been missed, is one person with Atlantic Express said they could operate their runs at a cost of $2.50/person. Hey, with the $3 fare, they'll make a PROFIT. So why are they going to recieve subsidies?
-Hank
I forget who was asking for lists of repowered buses, and I forget if this one was on it already but saw:
8466 out of 126th Repowered
Why not repower the 4800s also, since half of them are 2x2 hard seaters (and the 15 or so expresses). They could start with 4898 and 4899 in Crosstown.
JUST KIDDING ON 2270!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ignore the comment on 2270 - forgot to cut that out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Were you going to put in a comment that Transit should repower 2270?
SHHHHHH! Please don't give them any ideas.
BIG AL
That's right folks. On Saturday, Jamaica received in buses 8033 and 8034. 8034 was put into service for the first time today on the Q4. 8033 from what I here needs alot of work before she can go on the road. These buses apparently were abused and not taken care off just like everything else that comes from Mabstoa. 4132 was also transferred in with them but has not been put on the road yet either. All 3 of these buses came from Gun Hill. It appears 4563 will not be going back on the road after all as more parts are being stripped from it. But the farebox and radio still remain inside. I'll keep everybody posted on more bus transfers as they happen.
BIG AL
Correction. In my previous post, I said it appears 4563 will not be going back on the road. I meant 4586. 4563 is alive and well. I'm sorry for any inconvience or heart failure I may have caused for some of you.
BIG AL
Thats funny, when Mother Hale received our first Orions from Staten Island they were in terrible shape and the perception here is that TA mechanics do no preventive maintainence on their equipment
By the way, haven't these TMC's been in Brooklyn for the last several years? Is Brooklyn division still Ta or has that changed in the last few minutes?
Buses 8033 and 8034 have spent their entire lives in Gun Hill Depot (OA). You are referring to buses 8000-8032 which are currently operating in Fresh Pond and Flatbush (TA) Depots.
I mean buses from the GH depot 8035-8044, 8046-8065, 8067-8072, 8076-8087 and 8089?
Ray
Those GH buses you mentioned are still there. Brooklyn has 1990
TMC's from Mother Hale (8000-8033, 8045, 8066, 8073, 8088, 8340-8349) when they (Hale) went 100% Orion about 2-3 years ago.
Mark
Don't forget bus 8074
Ray
Actually 8033 and 8034 did spend some time at Hale. There was period in the early 90's when Hale's entire fleet consisted of 1990 TMC RTS and to do this buses were transferred from many other depots - including all that were delivered new to Gun Hill.
Wayne
LOL! Staten Island should be called MaBSTOA Divison III since their maintenance is just as bad as the OA.
Is Jamaica expecting more TMC's from Gun Hill?
Ray
Are they any more TMC's comming to JA? ANd those 2 are Repowered or what?
I also had asked that same exact question but hopefully BIG AL will get back to us.
Ray
I don't know if we will be getting in any more 8000's. My guess is probably yes, but maybe at a later time. Eventually, all buses wind up getting transferred from place to place as they get older. No, these 2 buses, 8033 and 8034 have not been repowered.
Now, for some info that will really make you guys laugh. 8034, which was on the Q5 today, and only it's 2nd day on the road out of Jamaica, BROKE DOWN! It was stuck on Liberty ave about 5 feet from the L.I.R.R tresel, at 158th st, deadheading back to the depot. It was in the middle of the road with the hazard lights going, and the operator looking very board. This was about 8:30pm tonight. Just goes to show, you can't ever get any decent from MABSTOA.
BIG AL
I remember getting 8043 8058 and 8060 in the Bronx last Summer and these had to be the slowest pieces of junk that I ever rode on-especially 8058. I feel very bad for Jamaica-however I think the reason why they're here is because of the LIRR Shuttle. 4132 is a different story-it joins 4127-4130.
I bet that the 8000s will be the 4500s replacement in Jamaica later on once the LIRR Shuttle is over with.
From what I heard 5507 went to GH? As more Artics go there, more "junk" will be coming to Queens.
Question: I thought GH had buses 1740 3833 3869 3874 and 3967? Did they get scrapped?
Also isn't it ironic that QV gets Nova and Orion Suburbans as Jamaica gets more GMC and TMC? I'll be on the lookout for these buses on the Q17-that's for sure.
SI Landfill is nothing compared to SE Queens.
If you want some real rinky dink buses, come to SE Queens-The Land of the Junk.
PS 3824 Q75 Today.
Q17#8033Gary
Q85#4132Gary
Q75#3824Gary
What L.I.R.R. Shuttle?
Ray
Sit tight man! Soon we in the OA will be suffering with the Orion VII CNGs and losing some more of the RTSs as a result. Maybe the RTSs that will be displaced will come your way & you people in SE Queens (JAM and FP) will have fun trying to fix them.
When our first Orions arrived at Mother Hale from Staten Island, some of the maintainers told me that the grease in the transmissions were never changed and were like tar.
Just goes to show you TA maintainers are just a bunch of scrubs like TA bus operators.
Casey Stengal operators are the WORST!
Like I said in my previous post don't judge the TA based on Staten Island which is MaBSTOA South. If TA maintainers are scrubs then I dread to wonder what description aptly describes OA maintainers. Based on the OA garbage that gets sent to 126th Street I'd have to say that OA maintenance is an oxymoron. I've yet to see an OA bus whether it comes from HUD, MTV, MJQ, KB or GH that's worth a damn. The best example was an 8000 series RTS that came in from HUD. There was a tree limb wrapped in cardboard advertising jammed into the dashboard to keep it from collapsing. If this is OA maintenance then I'm glad I drive for the TA.
Nothing personal against you DHF 60 but BIG Al sounds like a BIG IDIOT!
Only one depot that I worked in had a great bunch of maintainers and that was Amsterdam depot in the late 90's. It was the only depot I ever worked in that had 100% service days, no accidents, no out of services, no lost trips. And it happened twice!
But it does kill me that one bus operator who doesn't even have a lot of time on the job can say with authority that all of MABSTOA buses are not maintained well, when TA may have the same problem.
What's with the MaBSTOA vs. TA deal? Is there something I'm missing here?
But I have to say in the OAs defense they do get ALOT of flack from the board. You have to remember they run buses in the Bronx AND Manhattan. It's high ridership and plenty of stop and go for these buses. The M101/2/3 has ridership of over 70,000 people per day! it's an OA route too. These buses get alot of wear and tear on them. They can't be 100% all of the time.
OA also has some of the less desireable buses (particularly a few Orions). Hudson Pier is almost a carbon copy of QV depot in terms of bus age.
But, as a whole, NYCTA is a good sytstem and it takes BOTH the TA AND OA make it run smoothly. You can't have one without the other.
You're right, it takes both the OA and the TA to make the system run well. The main reason I give the OA a lot of flack is because the OA buses we receive at 126 tend to be in abysmal condition. They are never put directly into service and usually spend days in maintenance being checked and repaired. The TA is not without fault regarding maintenance either. There are many TA depots that have less then stellar maintenance. As I alluded to in my post to Mr MaBSTOA, what is really needed is for one maintenance standard to be applied and adhered to system wide. This would insure that mechanically sound buses are the rule instead of the exception.
I agree with you 100% about Amsterdam. They are definitely the flagship of OA maintenance. We never received any of their buses at 126 when they were still an RTS depot.
We're all guilty of making sweeping generalizations, myself included. There is lousy maintenance on both sides of the aisle. What's really needed is one maintenance standard to be applied system wide. Whether it will ever be implemented remains to be seen.
A former Amsterdam bus,4145, is alive and well at Fresh Pond. As a matter of fact, drivers reporting for a.m. duty request this bus all the time.
Actually, 4145 is a Fresh Pond original. In fact, two generations of 4145s were originals of FP: 1969 New Look Flx and 1985 GMC RTS.
I know,thanks.I'm debating with somebody whether FP originally had 4070-4151 or 4071-4152.I say the former.
Sorry Mike, neither: 4071-4151.
Thank you!
When I was an operator at Amsterdam in 1997-1998 we had only three classes of buses and they were 4100's, 4800's and the 8600's.
The 4100's were my favorite, the 8600's were good but were the first RTS's with all the new fangled equipment that slowed you down(slow lifts, slow rear door, etc.) The 4800's were always garbage, very slow but yet very dependable. Maintainence personnel have always told me that the 4800's are the most reliable as far as breakdowns.
Once Westside opened (Quill) all of these buses were transferred there and all the crap from Walnut arrived.
I haven't been on the board over the last week and a half, so I'm finally reading some of the stupid crap Mr.Mabstoa wrote.
Let's go over some facts here. Which 3 depots in the system have the best M.D.B.F.? I'll give you a hint. It's not a Mabstoa depot. Try, Q.V., Jamaica and 126th st. respectively. It is a fact, that every bus that get's transferred over to Queens from Mabstoa needs extensive work before it is able to go into service. 8033 & 8034 finally went into service a few days ago after spending over a week on the lifts! (8034 was in service for 2 days, broke down, and was back on the lift for almost a week.) I was told 8033, after going through the bus wash, leaked from EVERY WINDOW! T/A has buses that leak from some windows, but for a bus to leak from every window, this shows an extreme lack of proper maintainence. I have actually gotten onto buses recently received from Mabstoa with the stuffing coming out of the operator's seat. The seat was so worn out it would have been more comfortable to drive the bus while standing. If I didn't have my own cushion, my back would have been a disaster. Written all over the front inside destination sign door are things like "slow shit", "garbage" "get out and push special" and so on, things written by Mabstoa operators. In fact, there is so much writing up there, there isn't room for anybody else to write anything! Reason: because the inside of the buses are never painted. The inside areas that are supposed to be white are more a dull grey. Very depressing to look at, not to mention having to spend several hours in it. Try to find a T/A bus like that. You won't. I welcome Mr. Mabstoa or anybody else who doubts me to come to Queens and look at Q.V.'s 3900s, which were always T/A buses to the best of my knowledge, then look at the 41 & 4200's which were ex-Mabstoa buses. Ride them. There is no comparison. The 3900's are 100 times in better shape. Much softer ride, better acceleration, cleaner over all. That's no coincidence.
The remark about me having "not that much time on the job" is the most assinine comment I've read yet on this board. A bus operator doesn't need to be on the job longer than 30 days to know if he's pulling out a good bus or a bad one. 99% of the time you can tell before you even leave the yard.
I don't mean to rag on Mabstoa division but the truth is I have yet to see one bus come to Queens from Mabstoa in good condition.
Jamaica depot maintainers and the foremen dread when we get Mabstoa buses transferred to us because of all the work they always need.
I agree also there should be one standard of maintainence throughout the system, but unfortunately that is not the case.
So Mr. Mabstoa, why don't you come to Jamaica and ask any maintainer of your choosing and any foreman of your choosing what we have to go through to get a Mabstoa bus up to Queens and the T/A's standards. Tell them you feel Mabstoa buses (RTS's) are as good as T/A buses.
I'll set my stop watch and see how long it takes for them to laugh you out of the building.
BIG AL
OK.
Any idea if the X21/22 is going to start Monday with
all these problems???
What ever happened to the company ISLAND EXPRESS???
Are they still in existance? They used to run Express
routes?
Personally I agree with HANLEY - Let the MTA take over
all the Academy Routes. They have the
Suburbans/Expresses to use - Approximately 50+ Orions
and NOVAs, as well as stored GMCs and THREE VIKINGS. -
And plenty of empty X route designations. Send them
through NJ.
The politics and BULLSH!T has to stop.
Good news folks; I have just successfully completed the first 30' Flx Metro diecast. It is based on the Road Champs model; it took a lot of work to finish the first one but has been shortened successfully and looks great.
The bus is to be painted in CAT (Las Vegas) colors for a customer and delivered around the first part of July. If anyone else is interested in a 30' Flx, let me know as I am willing to build one now that my skill is honed. Thanks!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Another note about model buses; I have just completed a diecast model of the new Dennis-based Thomas SLF 200 low floor bus that is now used at Baltimore MTA and other TAs across the US. The bus is 1:120 scale and I have a couple more available; if anyone is interested, let me know!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
BTW could you take a photo of what the bus looks like?
I hope to have photos up soon; in the meantime, you can catch the real thing at www.thomasbuses.com. Thanks!
-Fred
Saw bus #9002 which is a new Prevost Mirage XL2. It was painted just like the new MCI D4000s. This is the best looking Academy bus I have seen to date. I dont think its a demo because Academy's demos are usually painted all white with a blue Academy decal on them. Does anybody know if Academy plans to buy more Prevosts?
Thanks,
Kevin Barsky
Transit World New York
9002 is more than likely a demo. Academy has a tendency to number their demos in the 9xxx Series except for those 15 MCI E4500s that landed in the 15xx Series.
Example:
MCI G4100s were 9916-9918
Van Hool C2045L is 9001 (which they are still demoing)
However with it being fully painted, this may be a standard order bus. It's good chance! Along with Academy, Short Line is sporting some Prevost Le Mirage XL-IIs also.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
The Short Lines new Prevosts look good too. Thanks for the info T.Lo.
Peace,
Kevin
transitworld.org
[The Short Lines new Prevosts look good too.]
The few new Prevosts I've seen are technically Chenango (sp?) Valley buses, as they are in the 72xxx series. I believe Chenango Valley is a wholly-owned subsidiary or affiliate of Short Line. I agree that they look good, even in Coach USA colors!
Applying for a position at Harran reminded me of two experiences with them. One Sunday morning, I was going to take the train from Port Jeff into Queens. But no trains were running that day, but the railroad thoughtfully provided two Harran buses. One was making all stops to Huntington, the other was running express to Hicksville, so that's the one I took. This one was MCI 587, with a 71 engine coupled to a 5 speed manual. Will all the redline shifts to get the bus up to speed, I was reminded why I hate that engine. As usual, creature comforts were excellent. This one has a restroom.
My second one was when I came into Ronkonkoma one afternoon, but there was no train to Greenport, but there was a Harran AE bus waiting in the parking lot. I think the nummber was 505. The interior was nice, but I was so dissapointed with the acceleration. She wasn't as fast as I thought she would be. Reminds me of riding a QS MCI on occasion. The funny part is that even though I may not like riding the AE's, it is always a thrill to see one. Go figure.
Hey Al, from one TT staff member to another, I just wanted to know if there are any other movements or movements that are being made in the future?
Ray Clendenin
Adminstrative Assistant
www.transitalk.com
Back in the spring, NJT received bids for LED retrofit kits for the Flxible Metro D fleet, to match the lights used on the 1999/2000 Nova RTS fleet. Was out for lunch today (6/20, 2pm) and was behind 1808, running the #770 from Market Street garage. The LED taillights are much better than the original bulbs - sharper, brighter, and more balanced.
Hopefully the 1996 Nova RTS fleet will follow suit soon.
Which kinda reminds me of the new ST Gilligs. The only change at the rear was making the high mount brakelight LED to match the taillights. But they didn't make them any bigger. The SWB Gilligs in the 9700 series have the bigger LEDs, but the highmount is standard bulb.
Thanks to Trevor Logan for the smashing new logo!
-Dave
But, but.... it's an "Orion"...
Surely we can bless ourselves with an RTS??
:-)
I agree that the RTS is a better-looking bus. However, Trevor did an excellent job with it, and besides, with everybody and their mother putting RTSes on their front page, it makes for something differet that stands out. Kudos, Trevor!
-F.
Looks cool. Nice work, Trevor!
--C
I agree---nice work ,,Trevor
Steve
The new logo almost looks like a sketch!
I think 4088 from Fresh Pond should've been put up instead!
Great new logo! I'm surprised he did an Orion though, given his preference for MCI's, New Flyer's and Flixibles. How about a New Flyer Viking for the next one?
Change is good ... I like this one very much, although an orange strip would have been better ... he he he
Mr t__:^)
Hmmm...Orange Strip on an Orion 6....could a test vehicle be waiting in the wings at College Point?
Any comments on the following proposed route change:
Extend the B-23 Cortelyou Road bus from its current terminal at Flatbush Ave to the Beverly Rd/Nostrand Ave #2/#5 line station as follows:
Cortelyou Rd,Flatbush Ave(l),Beverly Rd(r),New York Ave(l),Tilden Ave(l),Nostrand Ave(l) and stand at Beverly Road. RETURN VIA
Beverly Rd(R),Flatbush Ave(L),Corteylou Rd and current route:
Benefits: B-23 passengers will be able to access the B-49 on Bedford and Rodgers Ave,the B-44 on Nostrand and New York Ave, Connection to the Beverly Rd #2/#5 line Station and improved access to the Holy Cross Cemetary and Sears store at Bedford and Beverly Rd.
Any comments
Thank You
Present it to the MTA Board
It will take about 2 years before they get to it because Operations PLanning is so far behind
Thank You
"It will take about 2 years before they get to it because Operations PLanning is so far behind"
Please explain "so far behind."
David
David,
It speaks for itself.
As someone who knows the people involved very well, I still don't understand the statement. Please explain it.
David
David, Operations Planning does not make changes fast enough.
An example is that it took over a year to extend the Q-76 into the new shopping mall near College Point.
In Brooklyn's Kings Bay a request has been made several times to extend the B-4 from Knapp St/Voohries Ave to Knapp St/Ave X to serve a childrens sportsplex/game room. The answer was that it was not needed. Another instance was that it took over 35 years before the TA discontinued the B-33 Hamilton Ave bus route because of low ridership since the Dodgers left Brooklyn in 1957 .
For years the TA has had a mentality to cut service. They have no idea to handle ridership changes. Several depot managers have told me this. A perfect example of how Operations and Service Planning is still behimd the times is the Manhattan Bridge Service Changes. All they did was just took the plan used in 1986 to 1988. They failed to realize that ridership habits have changed in the Chinatown community.
True one is restricted on subway changes that can be made but chnages in bus service should not be a federal case. Yes they are times that communities will object such as the Q-14 extenstion that recently was killed because of community objections.
I can name you several changes that the TA should do but they will not get off their butts and do them. How could you get someone to change when their idea is to buy low floor buses and reduce service because of people will not need as much time to get on and off the buses. When i said what about traffic he did not answer me. And this was 6 years ago.
See what i mean.
Thank You
"I can name you several changes that the TA should do but they will not get off their butts and do them. How could you get someone to change when their idea is to buy low floor buses and reduce service because of people will not need as much time to get on and off the buses. When i said what about traffic he did not answer me. And this was 6 years ago."
By what standard was it decided that NYCT "should" make these changes, whatever they may be? Exhaustive origin/destination surveys? Site visits? Demographic studies? Traffic checks on existing routes in the area? Consultations with Community Boards? Or, as many buffs tend to do, looking at a map and drawing lines (no offense intended; I used to do it, too -- when I was a kid)? There is a LOT more to service planning than just looking at something and saying "do it."
I am intimately familiar with the B-4 situation. There is ABSOLUTELY NO DEMAND for service along Knapp Street. The one person who was pushing the extension was a politically connected business owner. The B-4 is a very lightly used route, and there is little, if anything, that can be done about it.
As for service reductions related to institution of low-floor buses, there is POSITIVELY NO CONNECTION between the two. If running time goes down as a result of faster boarding and alighting, great! If that results in fewer runs (and I don't know of ONE case where it has to date), how does that negatively affect the riders? They're still getting service at the same frequency, and they're getting to their destinations faster. What's the downside FOR THE CUSTOMER?
David
To tell something that a bit of changes on the Timetables on the front part of the NJ Transit and SEPTA Timetables.
The NEW NJ Transit timetables that I got in from NJ Transit a few days ago. The 319 timetable have a MCI D4000 #7504 in the Front. The 129 don't have the MC9A anymore. It's now have a Flxible Metro in the front instead of the D4000's that was to be on most new timetables.
The SEPTA Timetables that I got in today have differt buses on them. The 55,6,9,65,and the 27 have a Articulated Neoplan #7141 and the Headsign is not on.I think it was running on 55. C,1,and the 37 have a Neoplan AN440#3001 with a bridge in the background.I think the 25 or C.The 104 have a NABI #5144 showing the Front and Back doors open and the headsign is not on. And #5144 is with a Run #12X in the front. I think it was running on 112 to Westchester.
The NJ Transit ones are for June 23. The SEPTA ones are for June 18.
And now, for yet another cheap plug:
I have a detailed listing of which SEPTA buses appear on what timetables at my Northeast Bus & Rail Gallery web site.
BTW, the image of D4000 #7504 is not supposed to appear on all NJT timetables, but only the ones which use cruiser buses.
[The 104 have a NABI #5144 showing the Front and Back doors open and the headsign is not on. And #5144 is with a Run #12X in the front. I think it was running on 112 to Westchester. The NJ Transit ones are for June 23.]
Actually, it would most likely be a 110, given the location of the picture at 69 St. That photo appears to have been taken at the inner bus loop, where the 107, 109, 110, and 111 board at all times (though the 104 boards there after 7:00pm). Of the 107, 109-111, only the 110 uses NABIs on a regular basis. The 109 has never seen a NABI, nor has the 107. Until the 35 ft buses were sent from Frontier to Red Arrow in exchange for some 87xx Suburban Neos, NABIs were often used on the 111. Right up until the arrival of the Eldorados, a NABI could occasionally be seen on the 111, but usually only during the peak hours (and believe me, I've seen some nearly full peak hour 111 trips using a 40 ft bus in the immediate past).
Check this out, folks; we all know about the DeLorean sports car, but did you know they also designed a bus as well? Take a look....
www.delorean.org/tgraham/dmc80.htm
Imagine if this bus would have been mass-produced.
-F.
I heard that The TA in Hamburg here in the US got some. Hamburg is the first TA in North America that used Low Floors. And I not too shure if MTA NYC Transit was going to order them instead of going and ordering RTS's for the 1981 Order.
Good lord, that thing is freakin' hideous. Impractical as well. The tall front window glass, almost nonexistent bumpers, and sharp/delicate edges would mean that it would be dinged up within a month of use, to say nothing of crashworthiness. Does it travel in time if you can get it up to 88mph?
C
It Looks like a Nova LFS.
Yeah...the basic body shell does look LFSish. Only differece is that it doesn't have that ugly anteater front end. Yeech!
-F.
anyone know of any new buses that should be debuting this summer for metro/wmata, ride on, fairfax connector, or dash? i wanna add some new material to my collection of bus pics and data. thanks for reding this
WMATA is supposed to get some CNG New Flyers, although I'm not sure if they'll be "debuting" this summer -- possibly fall.
DASH has new 35' Orion V's running around. I've seen them at Landmark Mall. I think it was about a month ago that I saw a couple. I don't remember the fleet numbers.
Yeah, I saw those in Old Town (King St Metro) last Sunday, also running on the AT5 to Landmark. Nice and shiny and new!
Chris
Queens Village and Jamaica depots share the Hempstead branch of the LIRR shuttle bus operation. As a joint effort between the LIRR and NYCTA, you can imagine the confusion and chaos on the first day. There were more supervisors on radios than buses in service, but that's to be expected :-)
Here's the run breakdown:
LIRR Shuttle Run Assignments
Weekday
Saturday
Sunday
01 JA
02 QV
03 QV
04 QV
05 JA
06 JA
07 QV
08 QV
09 JA
10 QV
11 JA
12 QV
13 JA
14 JA
15 QV
16 JA
17 JA
18 QV
01 QV
02 JA
03 QV
04 JA
05 QV
06 JA
07 QV
08 JA
09 QV
10 JA
01 QV
02 JA
03 QV
04 JA
05 QV
06 JA
07 QV
08 JA
09 QV
Route Description:
Queens Village Local at stand under LIRR on Sutphin Blvd, via Sutphin Blvd south, left on Liberty Ave (stop at 183 - Hillside Facility opposite canopy), left onto 104th Avenue, left on 189th Street, right on 99th Avenue (stop at Hollis Station opposite station exit), left on Francis Lewis Blvd, right on Jamaica Avenue, right on Amboy Lane to stand at Queens Village LIRR canopy.
Jamaica Station Local at stand between Q27 and Q1 bus stop, left Sprignfield Blvd, left Jamaica Avenue, left Francis Lewis Blvd, right on 99th Avenue (stop at Hollis Station), left 189th Street, right on 104th Avenue into Liberty Avenue (stop at canopy on 183rd Street at Hillside Facility), right on 165th Street, left on Archer Avenue, left on Sutphin Blvd to LIRR stand under elevated tracks.
Jamaica Express via Springfield Blvd, Jamaica Avenue, Sutphin Blvd to LIRR stand.
Queens Village Express via Sutphin Blvd, Liberty Avenue, 177th Street, Jamaica Avenue to Queens Village LIRR station.
Hillside Facility from Jamaica via Sutphin Blvd, left on Liberty Avenue, left on 183rd Street to stand at canopy near LIRR Hillside Facility exit.
Hillside Facility to Jamaica Station via stand at 183rd Street, left on Jamaica Avenue, left on Sutphin Blvd to stand under elevated LIRR.
Observations:
Queens Village has been trying to run late model suburbans while Jamaica has been running hard seat locals.
Most runs shift from leader to follower and back, meaning you would have a 2-3 minute layover on one end, then a 45-60 minute layover on the other, while other service runs before.
The NYPD Traffic Enforcement on Liberty Avenue at 183rd Street created more backups than if they hadn't been there, allowing the traffic via Dunkirk the right-of-way, rather than the buses and traffic on Liberty Avenue.
Most operators deviated from the route towards Jamaica because of excessive traffic on Jamaica Avenue at 168 Street via Jamaica Avenue, left on 168th Street, right on Archer Avenue, left on Sutphin and regular.
When will this take place?
Ray
It's already taking affect, according to the LIRR web site. The bus substitution is occuring due to the LIRR's Main Line track rehab project between Queens Village, Hollis, and Jamaica. The bus operations are expected to last until August 26.
It began this past Monday, and will continue 24/7 through August 26th (so they anticipate).
Due to the outcry of citizens living on 189th Street who do not wish buses roaring down their quiet residential street (and who can blame them?), the LIRR shuttle buses have been rerouted via 99th Avenue, left on Farmers Blvd, right on 104th Avenue and regular route. The return is via 104th Avenue, left on Farmers Blvd, right on 99th Avenue and regular route.
FYI
So what is the fare for the SHUTTLE? And can I use a Metrocard on those SHUTTLES?
You can ride the LIRR shuttle for free. Most of the buses don't even have a working farebox installed. You can board at Queens Village Station, Hollis Station, and at Jamaica Station. No metrocard or other card required. Simply board and have a seat.
Thanks alot!!
When were the B21 and B34 eliminated and the B1 and B4 realigned?
When were the B47 and B62 combined to create the B43? Why the number 43?
When and why did the old B15 become the B51?
and why did the B10 become the B15?
When were the following routes extended to new terminals as mentioned:B7 to Kings Highway station
B50 to above
B11 to Flatbush Junction
B9 to Kings Plaza
B31 to KH stationWhen and why were the following routes eliminated:B77S
B33
B19
B30
That is all.
Here's what I know:
#2) Proposed Fall 95 passed Fall 96
#6) Most likely lack of ridership, doesn't seem to be any complaint for these buses
The Seagate Shuttle of the B36, when did that end?
You must be watching too much HONEYMOONERS; there's one episode where Ralph appears on a game show, and in his nervousness, tells the host he "brives a dus" for a living.
Well, to the best of MY knowledge:
-When were the B21 and B34 eliminated and the B1 and B4 realigned?
In late 1978, there was a big route shakeup in southwest Brooklyn. The 21 was very roundabout, and served a limited market, basically running in a long U around Sheepshead Bay from KCC to Knapp Street. The 1 already ran to KCC, and extending it west past 86th & 25th over the length of the old 34 all the way to Bay Ridge offered a one-seat ride to KCC for a large area- and transfers to many other routes. By extending the 4 east past 86th & 25th, it would now serve Coney Island Hospital- and the fishing piers along Emmons Avenue, which probably isn't such a high priority.
-When and why did the old B15 become the B51?
By the time the B51 started, around the early nineties, I think, the B10 became the B15, so this would prevent confusion. There had never been a B51 in Brooklyn before. The original B15 succumbed either to low ridership or duplicate subway service over the Manhattan Bridge, but obviously there was some demand for bus service, which brought about the 51.
-and why did the B10 become the B15?
Around 1990 the B10 was extended from Linden & Elderts to JFK to provide the first local bus service between Brooklyn and the airport. Since Green Bus Lines already runs a Q10 service to JFK, it would be too confusing to have two routes in the same airport with the same number. Apparently, 15 was the next available number at the time, with the B51 not having began yet.
-When were the following routes extended to new terminals as mentioned
B11 to Flatbush Junction
The 11 was extended from 18th & 49th all the way to Canarsie station in the late 1978 reshuffling. This would create a one-seat ride from Sunset and Borough Parks to Brooklyn College. From Coney & J to Canarsie, the 11 completely duplicated the B6 and as a result was cut back to the Junction around 1996. Interestingly, the B11 is one of a very few routes to have more frequent service on Sunday than Saturday. This is because it connects two heavily Orthodox Jewish communities in Borough Park and Midwood.
B31 to KH station
It was around 1990 when the 31's subway terminus was changed from the Avenue U local stop to the Kings Highway express stop. That Kings Highway is a large shopping area (much bigger than Avenue U) probably made a reroute more desirable to the residents of Plumb and Gerritsen.
-When and why were the following routes eliminated:
B77S
B33
B19
B30
All fell victim to low ridership in the late seventies to early eighties.
The 77S ran only between the Smith-9th station and the Red Hook waterfront, which suffered a lot of job loss due to, among other reasons, increased use of air freight. Much of its territory is covered by the 77.
Similarly, the 33 connected Red Hook with long-time blue-collar communities Windsor Terrace, Kensington, Flatbush and Crown Heights.
The 19 connected downtown and the Flatbush LIRR/subway hub with the Brooklyn Navy Yard, which was pretty much dead by 1970. The Myrtle El also became obsolete by the Yard's closure. Ironically, its buildings are now becoming the site of a popular industrial/office park.
The 30 ran a serpentine route connecting industrial areas on the Brooklyn and Queens side of Newtown Creek with the subway and residential areas in Sunnyside. When it did run, it was on an extremely infrequent schedule, and a lot of its territory was covered by the B24, Q39, B48 and Q67.
I hope you'll find this information helpful.
Pretty good...but the B51 began in 1985.
David
Was the B15 eliminated earlier, or at that time? Why new number?
B15 (Brooklyn/Manhattan) was eliminated earlier. The B51 is basically a shorter version of it. As to why it was called B51 and not B15, probably a marketing decision.
David
It was called B63 and was renamed sometime between 1974 and 1975, why? What about today's B63?
The B-63 (Fifth Avenue) route has been numbered B-63 for many, many years, going back way farther than 1974.
Pigs is no doubt referring to the designation "B-63" for the Manhattan Bridge route on the 1974 Brooklyn bus map. Either it's a mistake, or the route was operated as a branch or extension of the B-63 route at the time.
David
1-The B-1,B-4,B-21, and B-34 changes were made System Pick in 1978 which was usually then at the end of October/beginning November when it took effect.
2- The B-47 and B-62 combination took effect as of September-1995 service cut back.
3- The old B-15 Manhattan Bridge was discontinued in the early 1980's.
The B-51 was a new service over the Bridge which was the only thing in common with the old B-15. Both routes had different terminals with the old B-15 at Flatbush AveLIRR Station and Canal-Baxter Streets
4- The B-10 became the B-15 when the route was extended to JFK Airport in 1993. REason Green Line Route Q-10
5- The B-7 was extended to E. 16th St approx 1982/83
The B-50 was extended to Coney Island Ave the same time as Item #1
The B-11 was extended to Rkaway Pkway Station same time as Item # 1 and later cut back to the JUnction approx 8 years later.
The B-9 extenstion was made mid-1988
The B-31 reroute was made early 1990's
6- The B-36 and B-77 Shuttles were eliminated approx 1985, The B-19 in early 1988, the B-33 sane time as the B-10/B-15 change in 1993
and the B-30 September 1995.
Hope this helps
Thank You
1-The B-1,B-4,B-21, and B-34 changes were made System Pick in 1978 which was usually then at the end of October/beginning November when it took effect.
2- The B-47 and B-62 combination took effect as of September-1995 service cut back.
3- The old B-15 Manhattan Bridge was discontinued in the early 1980's.
The B-51 was a new service over the Bridge which was the only thing in common with the old B-15. Both routes had different terminals with the old B-15 at Flatbush AveLIRR Station and Canal-Baxter Streets
4- The B-10 became the B-15 when the route was extended to JFK Airport in 1993. REason Green Line Route Q-10
5- The B-7 was extended to E. 16th St approx 1982/83
The B-50 was extended to Coney Island Ave the same time as Item #1
The B-11 was extended to Rkaway Pkway Station same time as Item # 1 and later cut back to the JUnction approx 8 years later.
The B-9 extenstion was made mid-1988
The B-31 reroute was made early 1990's
6- The B-36 and B-77 Shuttles were eliminated approx 1985, The B-19 in early 1988, the B-33 sane time as the B-10/B-15 change in 1993
and the B-30 September 1995.
Hope this helps
Thank You
Why was there no B32, B43 and B51? I know the latter two exist NOW.
And why is the B83 numbered that way? Why was the old culture loop II called the B88?
The B-32 was a shuttle route between Flatbush Ave/Ave U and the Marine Pkway Bridge. It was consolidated with the B-2 Flatbush-Ave R in 1947.
The B-2 was cut back to Avenue U when Green Bus Lines was awarded the franchise in 1958 to serve Queens(todays Q-35)
The B-43 was the Nostrand Ave Shuttle which was a trolley route which operated between Flatbush Ave and Avenue U. It was merged later with the B-44 route.
To the best of my knowledge there never was a B-51.
The B-83 was the next route given in 1966 when it was started.
The B-80 and 81 were Worlds Fair bus routes and the old B-82 shuttle was merged into the B-3
The B-88 was a Culture Loop. The number was for promotional reasons only.
Thank You
The B-80 and 81 were Worlds Fair bus routes and the old B-82 shuttle was merged into the B-3
What was the B82 shuttle? What about the B79? Where was that?
The original B-82 was the Bergen Beach Shuttle which operated from Flatbush Ave/Ave U to Bergen Beach. When the route was taken over by the City in 1940 it was originally designated the B-26 but was changed shorlty afterwards. There was a trolley route B-26 Putnam Ave which was converted to bus operation in 1941 which retained that number. The B-82 became a branch of the B-3 in 1957.
There was no B-79 why i do not know.
Hope this helps
Thank You
Maybe you can answer this.
Joe Korman's Bahn layout for Brooklyn trolleys in 1945-50 shows a spur that branches off of the 41 along Island Avenue (Veterans since the late 70s or early 80s) and onto Mill Avenue, then it turns onto Avenue V (I assume Strickland Avenue). Do you know more about this?
That possibly could be the B-82 Bergen Beach Shuttle Bus Route
But I am not 100 % positive.
Sorry I could not be more helpful. If you can please check the article in the Motor Coach Age about Brooklyn which was published in 1973 or 1974.
Thank You
Do you know where I can find Motor Coach Age archived?
[The B-2 was cut back to Avenue U when Green Bus Lines was awarded the franchise in 1958 to serve Queens(todays Q-35)]
I remember riding Green Bus Lines from Kings Highway and Flatbush Avenue to Riis Park prior to 1958. I'm not positive about this, but thought that it was called the Q-35 back that far.
Sid, Most of the information came from the Motor Coach Age article about Brooklyn and some drivers who worked in Flatbush Depot at that time.
Thank You
Passed by YUK last night. Saw 8313 in the front of a row of RTSs.
She had a fresh coat of paint and as well as the number on the front, the number was on the front windshield also (stickers). Couldn't see if repowered or not since all the MCIs were waiting to pull in.
Anybody know if it has been repowered? (-Hudson, any info??)
no it has not been repowered. drove it last friday and the interlock broke. all it and 8307 received were a new exterior paint job.
What's with the floors on these 2 buses?
They have like sandpaper rough floors. They are not like any other MCIs floors. Why is it like this?
Also, some of the new buses have the farebox higher so that no longer the stairs have to be cut to access the "vaccuum" hole for the money. When and how did this take place????
The first ten or so MCIs that were delivered came in with the type of floor you mentioned in your post. They have the same type of floor as the NJT Novas. They leave a bad glare on the windshield at night.
Peace,
Kevin
transitworld.org
Are they going to replace the floor?
I doubt it, they have been that way since delivery. I dont think it would make sense to replace the floors but that might be reason enough for the TA to do so. However, since those buses are being leased from MCI I dont think the TA can change the floors unless they actually buy the buses.
Peace,
Kevin
www.transitworld.org
All the MCIs are being leased??? I thought NYC bought them all.
they are leased. in 1998 when the first ten or so arrived the contractor for mci linoleum floors was on strike. the floors are hideous and there is a bad smell to them.
Are all these MCIs leased and if yes, why are they leased and not purchased????
I know the buses can use expressways and highways but which parkways are they allowed to use and which highways can they NOT use? Is the FDR Drive between 23rd St to 125th St consider a bus highway? What about the West Side Hwy from 57th St/12th Av to the G.W.B. or Henry Hudson Pkwy for that matter? How about on the Harlem River Drive (M98) or the Henry Hudson Pkwy? The Bronx River Pkwy, Hutchinson River Pkwy, Pelham Pkwy (JUST KIDDING!!!-Bx12). Thank you to whoever answers this question.
Ray
I think they can use any one that is high enough for the particular bus to pass under overpasses, unless there is a weight restriction.
I know that firetrucks can use the FDR as far north as underneath the apartments, since the clearance is not high enough.
They are OFFICAL vehicles of the state and city, so they can't be held by commercial only laws.
There is an official list of highways that NYCT buses are permitted to use. I don't have it, but some of the Bus Operators (or higher) here have posted parts. Perhaps someone will post the entire list.
Please, everyone, don't post OPINIONS as what highways buses can use.
David
I know that buses can't use the FDR between 23rd (actually the 25th Street exit, and about 125th. This is why the express buses always enter the FDR at Ave C and like 17th going SB and have to get off at the 34th Street exit going NB (which is at 25th Street). Same reason why the M98 doesn't stay on longer.
As far as other highways, I don't believe that buses can use the henry hudson.. These are about the only two that I know of in Manhattan.
Wrong Clark Plaicka, Buses can't use the FDR Between 42th Street Exit not 23th Street Exit to 125th Street because of Clearance right under the Apt. between 51th Street to 59th Street. Also buses not allow to enter the Henry Hudson between 57th Street to 79th Street. I seen alot of buses coming from brooklyn getting off at 23th Street, 34th Street & 42th Street. X25/90/92 can enter the FDR Drive at 19th Street heading downtown & getting off at 23th Street.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
Are you sure it's 42nd, since no buses ever seem to get off there? Maybe there's a height restriction, but perhaps, there's a weight or some other restriction on the bridge from 26th to 38th???
The restrictions are noted on the permit I posted yesterday.
In an earlier thread regarding "Northern State claims another bus", the discussion was raised about the legalities of buses on
parkways. While I can't offer anything as far as privates are concerned, I do have the current parkway permit issued by the DOT Bureau of Authorized Parking & Permits to the NYCTA, and it reads as follows (with minor deletions):
-------------- BEGIN PERMIT ------------------
Name: NYC TRANSIT AUTHORITY / SPECIAL OPERATION
Date(s): 24 HOURS A DAY / 7 DAYS A WEEK - AS NEEDED
License Plate(s): FLEET BUS
Valid on the following roadways:
[x]Pelham Parkway
[x]Mosholu Parkway
[x]Richmond Parkway
[x]Grand Central Parkway
[x]Hutchinson River Parkway
[x]Cross Island Parkway
[x]Bronx River Parkway
[x]Harlem River Drive
[x]Other: Henry Hudson Parkway
[x]Belt Parkway: except between Knapp Street & Rockaway Parkway limited to vehicles under 10,000 pounds (5 tons) fully loaded.
Restrictions/Conditions: COPIES OF THIS PERMIT VALID
Dated: October 8, 1999
Expires: September 1, 2000
Purpose: TO TRANSPORT PASSENGERS
This permit is subject to revocation if the applicant does not comply with all pertinent laws, rules, and regulations, including any conditions or restrictions imposed by the Bureau of Authorized Parking & Permits. This permit must be displayed in the vehicle window or be held in the drivers posession. Upon request, driver shall present it to a Police Officer, Traffic Enforcement Agent, or other authorized person.
The permittee will assume all risk and must comply with all Federal, State and New York City laws and safety requirements. It is incumbent upon permittee to establish the clearance of all overpasses and egress ramps.
The Department of Transportation, by issuance of this permit, is not party to any contract of the permittee. This permit may be revoked by the Commissioner of the Department of Transportation for abuse.
Copies of this permit have been sent to the following agencies:
[x]Police
[x]DOT Enforcement
[ ]Other
--------------------- RENEWAL AND ATTACHMENT --------------------
Dear Permittee:
Your permit to travel on New York City parkways has been extended through SEPTEMBER 30, 2001
In order for this extension to be valid, you must display in each vehicle a copy of your original permit, anda copy of this letter. Failure to do so invalidates this permit. Be advised that the extension contained herein should not be construed as an indication of any action that this Agency may take in future application for renewal.
Note also that CURRENT PERMITS ARE NOT VALID ON:
[x]FDR DRIVE - Travel is governed on limited portions of the Drive by signage.
[x]OCEAN PARKWAY - Main Roadway
[x]HENRY HUDSON PARKWAY / MILLER HIGHWAY - Coaches, full-size school buses and vehicles over 10 tons (20,000 lbs) MAY NOT USE:
57th Street to 72nd Street Northbound
79th Street to 57th Street Southbound
Check your current registrations for vehicle weight. Violators will be summonsed and face possible revocation of permits.
For Questions, please call (718) 555-1212
Sincerely,
Authorized Signature
cc:Deputy Chief NYPD Traffic Control
Inspector NYPD Highway District
Director NYPD Parking Enforcement
------------------------ END PERMIT ----------------------------
As an aside, every NYCTA fleet bus carries a parkway permit and is equipped with EZ pass. A NYC Transit bus, with proper Authority permission, may travel any roadway the Authority deems necessary, however must abide by the posted height or weight roadway restrictions. Because a NYCTA bus is an official vehicle, it is not subject to commercial vehicle restrictions.
I have a pic at home from a NYC Bus Card brochure depicting the Orion VI demo, with three (3) doors, one in the front, middle, and one behind the rear wheel.
Where did this demo run? What about the third door? Also, has NYC ever considered the third door, on LF buses???
That Bus was the demo for the MTA. It never ran in "Passenger" Service, however it was housed at Hudson Pier Depot. From what I understand it was a noisy S.O.B.!
That bus returned to Orion after the MTA had its once over with the bus. Where it is now is clearly unknown BUT its not on MTA property!
Regards,
T.Lo
And as to the third door, the bus was a demonstrator, not built for any particular operator. The third door was there to show prospective purchasers that they could have a center door or a rear door as desired.
David
As an aside, it is not unusual to see standard length buses in Europe with three doors instead of the usual two. Typically, the ones with three doors are low-floor buses.
So the MBTA's Flyer trolleybuses are low floor right?
We're talking about (a) buses in Europe and (b) three doors on the same side of the bus. I'm not sure what MBTA trolley buses have to do with that. If I'm not mistaken, the MBTA trolley buses are AMC, not Flyer (although AMC had a license to use the Flyer design).
Like what is AMC?
American Motors Corporation . . . the now-defunct "Number Four" U.S. carmaker, which built crappy vehicles like the Pacer and the Eagle before being purchased by Chrysler in the early '80s. It (briefly) built buses through its still-extant A.M. General subsidiary, now better known as the originator of the Hummer and a longtime builder of U.S. Mail Jeeps. Its claim to fame was the trackless trolley, some of which can still be found in Philly; it also built conventional 30-, 35-, and 40-foot uses, with the single biggest order of 600 units going to WMATA in the early 1970s. (Not a single unit survived in revenue service past the late '80s, although one is still moldering away in a field near the Fort Totten station.)
Chris
Our museum has one of the first AMGs ever built. WMATA no. 7535 is partially restored and can be seen at our website:
www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
-Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
P.S.: Many of these WMATA AMG coaches came with wall-to-wall carpeting. True Seventies style, indeed!
The MBTA trolley buses are in fact Flyers. Specifically, they are E800-10240 ETBs, fleet #4000-4049 (s/n #0999-1048). These buses are unique in that they have left side doors to facilitate boarding in the underground Harvard T Station bus loops.
was that demo was made between 1996-1997 because i have a picture of it offline
Okay, what about Staten Island? What routes were at the Edgewater Bus Depot before it burned down in 1978? I know Castleton took over ALL the routes in Stati=en Island until 1981 when the Yukon Depot was built.
Ray
I don't recall Edgewater burning, but it DID sink. It was on piers in the harbor, and turned several fishbowls into fish food. It was closed immediately. Yukon was mostly open at the time. (1985?)
Geographically speaking, the s2(s51), s5(combined with s104), s101(s42), s104(s52), s108(defunct), s109(s72, defunct), and s117(s76) make the most sense. Since Yukon didn't exist, they probably had the s103(s78/79) and s113(s74). All the other routes came from Castleton, especially since a majority of them had origins in the Port Richmond Square area.
-Hank
Yea,about 6 WMATA 1970 Flxible literaly became fishbowls during the 1st Grumman recall in 1981 or 2
Took the Q60 from 59th St-2nd Ave-caught bus #277-cool airconditioning-i was tlaking to the driver and taking notes(he wondered why)-i told him i was doing a check for GBL and aircondtioned buses. He told me he had to fight to ge this bus, he could have gotten #246,#253,#259(with no a/c he said-yet i saw it running with the windows closed) or #284(blowing steam).
These are the GBL buses i saw runnig with a/c:
623,10001,272,282,5539(no sign working),5548,720,228,5503(my favorite),657,1162,1146,618,5510,5516,1157,232,652,1171.
TCC i saw: 3001,3007,1184,3034,3071,3038,694(NO Working sign or a/c).
My question is, there was a sign that said they are cleaning the Green buses. Why dont they improve the windows and put in new windows like they have on the TA buses?
Q60-#227 RTS II-04
Q53-#3034 ORION V-CNG
Q35-#274 RTS II-04
B9-#970 New Flyer
I had 629 on the Q60 today and the a/c was kicking. 5522 also had a kicking a/c as that bus was in fornt of mine. I did see 657 5508-5509 5537 5539. You must have taken the bus later than me-I took the bus from 48 St at 1045am.
All of the MTA Buses that I had today had kicking a/c:
3933 3958 3976 148 4933 5162.
3900s were slow however-VERY SLOW!
Q60#629Gary
Q46#4933Gary
Q17#5162Gary
Gary writes, in part:
"All of the MTA Buses that I had today had kicking a/c: 3933 3958 3976 148 4933 5162.
3900s were slow however-VERY SLOW!
Overall, buses will be slower in the summer months because of the AC system which drains power. There are many times when we shut down the Climate Control System if it's not needed, because it will increase accelleration. However, during the hot sticky sweltering NYC summers, I forego speed for comfort. That AC stays on, regardless of the performance (or lack thereof) of the bus.
I think most drivers do the same ... the comfort you speak of is for the customers, right ?
Mr t__:^)
You may re-enter TransiTALK using the original URL:
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Yes, I sprung for the bill so now NameZero doesn't own a damn thang!!!!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Yesterday, around 4:00 p.m. I was on a NJ Transit Route 320 bus heading from North Bergen Park and Ride to PABT and shortly after we entered I-495 East towards the Lincoln Tunnel I saw a NYC Bus MCI express bus from Staten Island heading in the same direction on I-495. It appeared to have passengers on it. The on-line timetable for the X-31 does not show PM to Manhattan service, and the X-17 timetable shows "via New Jersey" service only in the AM. Anyone have an idea what bus this may have been? (Evidently, I didn't get a chance to see the destination sign.)
AFAIK, there are no PM trips via NJ. They are deadheading buses via NJ, however. If you're positive there were passengers aboard, I don't know what you saw. The buses don't layover in Manhattan during the day as they used to.
-Hank
I'm looking for a history of bus map designs.
In the 70s, there was a white map. It has a bus on the cover facing sideways (like on the schedules now, except it was a new look) and lines with circles on them (map like).
The main map used pairs of gray lines to indicate streets. the routes used circles on the line with the number in it, and a box the same way for a terminal. Insets were gray boxes and indicated by letters, the lines inside an inset were not depicted on the main map and instead faded on entry. Subway stations were black squares, commuter RR was triangles, but no lines. In Manhattan color indicated direction, in the other boroughs, direction was a black arrow in the line.
Eventually (I don't know when) they changed to a cover that included a section of the map with a picture of a bus on it (with a blank blue-red rollsign, which stayed even into the all digital sign era) and a blue bar on top and bottom the top had the borough and date, the bottom had the agency name. The backside grid changed from a multicolored grid to a two-tone blue grid. The main map was now gray using white streets, the route lines were thinner and directional arrows were right triangles with the long leg attached to the side of the line. Part time routes had hollow circles and squares and broken line routes. Subways used hollow circles and were thin black lines. RRs were just like on the subway map. Subway bullets were black and white. insets were like now, a black outline box with routes inside, just difficult to figure out. Manhattan went from a split map to its current long format and started using the strip maps on back.
Then it went to the current format. Except Manhattan kept the strip maps, and of course the cover still had the map section. Then they went to the "regional" format.
So when was the change from that 70s map I mentioned, and what did maps look like before?
Oh, and the previous map used colors to depict Queens companies. The current one uses shapes.
And all routes have their own line. Some routes have the same color but when they run on the same street, they usually have another route color in between so it appears to be three lines on one street. Why not join the routes of the same color until they diverge. That way it doesn't look like the 1972 subway map. REMEMBER THAT???????
I was just wondering why the TA would/did not provide special buses from other boroughs to the funerals of the three firefighters that died in the The Father's Day Inferno? SI had a lot of firefighters going, as well as other boroughs. You tell me MTA could not even spare Maybe 10 MCI cruisers or stored Orions or other buses for this??
It's the city, I guess.
LIRR had a special train from one funeral to the other yesterday. Why not provide buses??????
Yesterday.
I saw a Bee Line #779 running on RTE 42 (Bronx-New Rochelle). I saw the bus
have a diffent Paint Job and it was a New Paint job. The Front end was
Painted White. The sides of the Bus have a Blue and YEllow Srtipes going up
instead of going straght. "The Bee-Line Systerm" was above the first window.
Also I notice that the "Westchestergov.com" Logo was on the right side below
the first window. I like the new paint job better then the OLD one. All Bee
Line Buses would be getting that new paint job. I think also some MAN's would
get it too. And I think the Neoplan Articulateds have that paint job also.
I don't think you'll be seeing it on any MANs, as they're all due to be replaced shortly.
Peace,
ANDEE
When I saw 501 outside Philly a few months ago, I did notice it had the new Bee-Line paint scheme.
A lot of systems go to a new livery every time a new fleet is delivered. Buffalo recently went to a new paint scheme when it recieved it's Nova LFS buses a couple of years ago. That scheme is being applied to their new Gillig low floor buses as well.
Their is a MCI with the new paint scheme also # 928. And only 10 of the MANS will be painted with the new colors.
When the Volvo artics were getting close to retirement, several of them were repainted into the new top ribbon livery, even though they were to be retired a few months later (this was presumably to allow the newer buses to cover the GOP Convention routes).
Hey, you have on your MTA-NYCT 1992-1993 roster sheet buses 3800-3842 as local buses at Yukon. You do not have them slanted like the 1700 and 1800's as well as those GMC New Look Rebuilds. Take a look, you have those buses as express buses and buses 3800-3842 as local. Is that true or you just made a mistake?
Ray
P.S. Are you working on any more roster sheet from the Vintage MTA? How about a Flexible New Look bus page with the assignments?
That's probably a mistake, which I hope to get around to correcting shortly. Unfortunately, I've been knee deep in SEPTA controversy (I'm sure you've noticed our fares are going up to $2.00) and posting the SEPTA Annual Service Plan at my web site, so some of the other areas have gone untouched recently. I'll try to fix that as soon as possible.
Last Monday, I was pleasantly suprised to see the separation of bus stops. The Queens Surface express buses had been moved further up (westward) Union Turnpike during the AM rush hour, leaving the intersection stop open to the Q46.
A very safe move, and one that's been long discussed about, both here on this forum, and by myself to NYCTA management.
I hadn't even realized the separation until I noticed all the QSC "white shirts" standing in the bus stop directing intending QSC passengers!
Well done, QSC!
Now, if we can only do the same at 168th Street, which would prevent the traffic from backing-up to St. Johns, all would be right with the world :-)
Seriously though, all QSC bus stops should be ahead of NYCTA bus stops because the QSC buses make less stops, while the NYCTA Q46 makes more frequent stops.
We shouldn't need to "fight for position" on the Pike.
Thurston, did you have any input on this?
I think a few people had a hand in making this happen. A very wise move on all parts!
[A very safe move, and one that's been long discussed about (sic), both here on this forum and by myself to NYCTA management.]
As has been mentioned quite a few times on this forum, a bus stop is considered a PARKING REGULATION and thus falls under the jurisdiction of the NYC Department of Transportation (the same DOT that's responsible for "overseeing" Queens Surface and the other "private" carriers). NYCT can only serve a bus stop, and perhaps request a particular location, but cannot actually install a stop.
[A very safe move, and one that's been long discussed about (sic), both here on this forum and by myself to NYCTA management.]
As has been mentioned quite a few times on this forum, a bus stop is considered a PARKING REGULATION and thus falls under the jurisdiction of the NYC Department of Transportation (the same DOT that's responsible for "overseeing" Queens Surface and the other "private" carriers). NYCT can only serve a bus stop, and perhaps request a particular location, but cannot actually install a stop.
I'm well aware of proper jurasdiction with regards to the installation and servicing of bus stops, however there are procedures that take place in an orderly fashion before anything can be done.
One of those procedures is informing NYCTA management about the situation so they may take appropriate steps to remedy or correct the situation by contacting the proper authorities within the DOT.
As it stands now, many of the QSC rush-hour bus stops are NOT official DOT sanctioned bus stops, but are "limited operation" bus stops where parking is regulated, either via meters or signage, prohibiting parking during peak flow periods. This allows (whether legally or otherwise) the opportunity to place a bus stop in an area that would otherwise afford parking to off-peak motorists. Since parking is prohibited during rush-hour, a peak-direction bus stop is a safer alternative than having all buses merge into a single "legal" bus stop.
If you'd care to witness this, visit Union Turnpike at 187th and 186th Streets, as well as Utopia Parkway, where signage has been installed designating metered parking spots as peak-direction bus stops.
Oh, and thanks for the grammar and spelling prompt. I'll try to post more grammatically-correct messages in the future.
That's correct ... we can't even put a bus stop sign up without permission, if a vandal takes the original one.
Mr t__:^)
Yesterday afternoon/evening, I had the opportunity to watch a Q6 bus operator going about his business boarding passengers at Sutphin Blvd and Archer Avenue.
The line was just about the length of the block, with some patiently awaiting their turn, while others "snuck" from behind the bus shelter and cut in front of other awaiting passengers.
As I watched, I heard people nastily cursing one another, pushing, shoving, and just an overall lack of respect for everyone concerned; the driver as well.
I witnessed him get out of his seat, face the rear, and almost violently verbally thrash his passengers. I couldn't hear what he was saying, but I know what he was doing- trying to move the people up front to the rear so that intending passengers could board. His face was stern, his finger pointing, and he was not smiling.
Is this sort of activity the norm at Green? If so, it's no wonder they're rated the lowest of the privates by a few transit advocacy groups.
Back in 1987-88 when I rode GB a lot, I always hated the way they maintained their RTS buses. The windows were either opaque or they didn't open, the a/c never worked, the exterior was always filthy, etc. The Flxibles they got later were not much better, but I was a fan of 576. But from what you have said, it sounds like it's business as usual. I remember I was getting on a express bus at 179 St the day after that HUGE snowstorm in '96 and people was pushing me down to get on, so I pushed back! No one dared to say anything otherwise things would have gotten ugly.
My only personal exposure to Green Lines was back when I was a young teenager growing up in Brooklyn. Before we could drive, we would take Green Lines Q35 to Riis Park. Those buses were shoddy back then (1979 - 1983 or so), but I never paid much attention to bus detail. We thought the Q35 was the only Green Line bus there was and wondered why it was "green", and why it was a "Q" rather than a "normal B" :-)
Personally, I think that line should come out of NYCTA Flatbush garage. It travels mostly in Brooklyn, and passes the depot.
Anyway, if I remember correctly, the B9 started summer service to Riis Park as well.
What do you think about B62????? And extend it to Far Rockaway. Sounds good to me. What about you????
The B62 is dead. And when it existed it went nowhere near the Rockaways.
Both the B9 and B46 had summer service to Riis Park. This was before the B9 was permanently extended to Kings Plaza. As for the Q35 situation, even though it travels mostly in Bklyn, it is like a limited stop situation. It does not stop at every stop along Flatbush Ave. Kinda of like the M60 in Queens.
B9#801Mike
B46#4879MikeLimited
M60#6355Mike
Q35#1149Mike
First of all, I thought that we New Yorkers dumped the idea of Private Corporations running public transit in the 40s. Therefore, the way NYCDOT is allowing the Privates to run tranist into the ground in QNS and BKLN is appalling.
Second of all, I consider the old RTS coaches the MTA runs far superior to the new RTS coaches DOT - sponsored Private lines operate. Period. (Don't ge me started on the fact that DOT had to buy reject Orions from WMATA to bolster its fleet)
Thirdly, I have a professor at my namesake school who teaches me and twenty other student public speaking. She's usually late because she has to take GBL from Rockaway to get to the subway. So I won't knock her or any of the other thousands of commuters who resort to dollar vans to get them where they are going.
IMO, an issue in this year's campaign should be the MTA takeover of these lines and an end to the incompetent program of the DOT and the Private Bus lines.
It wouldn't be an easy proposition for the NYCTA to "take over" any private bus line or company, and I don't know that they'd want to anyway. Buses lose money, and they dont have the facilities or equipment to operate those lines. If you're thinking about a complete take-over of facility and equipment, I highly doubt that would ever happen unless the company was forced into bankruptcy. Even then, the franchise would probably be awarded via bidding to another private company.
The issues to consider (from an employee point of view) are that of the bus operators. Are Green Line operators ATU or TWU? Would they remain in their current positions, or would we, as NYCTA operators be assigned or asked to pick the Green lines? What about their pensions, and other benefits? Would the privates strike if a hostile take-over was a reality? Could this actually happen?
Interesting discussion, but I'm sure that's all it is. Anyone have any facts regarding a NYCTA "take over" of a company other than via bankruptcy?
(Don't ge me started on the fact that DOT had to
buy reject Orions from WMATA to bolster its fleet)
Here we go again ... they were NOT rejects, WMATA couldn't afford to buy the last Orions on their big order, so Orion let the word out that they could be had at a discount. Several operators, incl. nycDOT stepped forward.
nycDOT bought 50 of them. They are basicaly the same as the CNG version that they subsequemtly purchased. QSC had a few that except for the odd ball Destination Sign we operated very happly until the CNGs came in (we gave them to Green who now has all 50).
[IMO, an issue in this year's campaign should be the MTA takeover of these lines and an end to the incompetent program of the DOT and the Private Bus lines.]
Now don't get M-E started ... I work for one of them & take exception that we don't do a fine job of serving the public.
Consider this: If the TA was the only game in town controlled by NYS and you were unhappy with the service, routes, etc. who would you complain to ?
Having two or more different groups providing public bus service tends to keep them all honest. Doesn't it ?
Trivia - the "privates" carry more folks in buses in Queens then the TA, yes it's true.
Disclaimer: I don't work for the MTA, TA or nycDOT and my comments are personal, so they don't reflect those of my employeer.
Mr t__:^)
Thurston writes (in part):
Trivia - the "privates" carry more folks in buses in Queens then the TA, yes it's true.
Are you saying that the 64 NYCTA bus routes that service Queens carry less passengers than the 46 total routes serviced by the 4 DOT carriers? Interesting factoid. Do you have the exact numbers?
I forget where I got this from ... it was a while ago & either came from nycDOT or the Queens Boro President's office.
There's an old saying ... figures don't lie, but lyers can figure. The ridership total was 500,000 per day. I think the truth of it depends on what TA routes are counted (in whole or part) & if both express & local "private" runs are counted.
Mr t__:^)
I would consider the total passenger count from any service which transports customers to and/or from Queens. The number of routes I posted before were Queens local routes, and included some Brooklyn local service on the part of the NYCTA which services Queens, however I did not include any DOT or NYCTA express service.
It would be interesting to view the numbers! I wonder if Straphangers has that data (they seem to have just about everything else).
If your a politican and you want to say something your lible to cook the number a certain way. Now we know that politicans never lie ;-)
BTW, I sure the "private" express runs were included in the numbers, because otherwise they couldn't get the answer they wanted ... they are Queens riders.
Mr t
If I offended you in implying that Private B/Os give bad service, I apologize. My gripes, however, are at NYCDOT for not doing enough to effectivly cover the ever - so - large boroughs of Bklyn and Queens. And to do so with cleaner - fuel - burning (and faster) buses.
[If I offended you in implying that Private B/Os give bad service, I apologize.]
Thank you for that, but your comments are not unique, and there is some thread of truth in them. My reply tryed to point out the value in their service. I know at this depot the management spends a lot of effort trying to provide good service.
[My gripes, however, are at NYCDOT for not doing enough to effectivly cover the ever - so - large boroughs of Bklyn and Queens.]
The "operators" don't have a lot of say in changes in the level/scope of service ... we can/do recommend. These type of changes require money, more buses, etc. That's a mayor/nycDOT function. Folks speaking up at town meetings helps a lot ... more so then at a TA meeting, as I feel the "suits" at the TA decide, then inform the public ... but that's my personal opinion.
[And to do so with cleaner - fuel - burning (and faster) buses.]
nycDOT is still commited to a all CNG fleet. The TA will replace a significat part of there old RTS fleet with "clean diesel" buses. Is clean diesel good enough ? I think the jury is still out on that one.
"faster" ... you ask too much. I here the TA will be installing grade timers on bus routes (that's a subway joke ... he he he).
Mr t
Grade timers on buses. Not exactly, but they would be governing them as I have heard mentioned before.
Clean diesel is passable for me (I don't know about others around me). But soon there will have to be a shift towards alternative fueling and powering. With one boy George sitting in the White House, however, that is not likey short term. Too many big oil interests backing him.
[Clean diesel is passable for me (I don't know about others around me).]
I feel this has more to do with the TA not wanting to spend the money to upgrade/replace depots then it being a sound alternate ... that's why I said "is it good enough ?"
BTW, CNG requires a explosion proof depot, most in the TA aren't & would have to be replaced ... a very big expense.
Mr t__:^)
This week I got a better look at the new SWB Gillig. This one was 2001 on the 8A route. I thought the new livery was gorgeous on the Gillig, merely handsome on the Orions. Same size LEDs on the rear, just like the 9600 series, but now the rear directionals are amber instead of red. The odd thing was as it was pulling away from the stop light, I saw a visible plume of smoke. The new Orions do not smoke at all, and they arrived first. I don't know what's the story with that. I don't seem them too much so maybe ST is taking delivery.
In the paper yestertday, I saw an old friend Bee Line MCI 924. When I used to work in the city, I would see her all the time working the BxM4C route. My question is does anyone know the model designation for the single axle MCI, and what years were they being built.
MCI, now on its third generation of model numbering systems, has always used a fairly logical approach to assigning model numbers.
The Westchester County MCI coaches are model 102A2. This means 102 inches wide, Intercity Coach Model 'A', and 2 for two axles. The units in question were built in 1986 and 1987.
I do not believe any of the later models are offered in a two-axle format. I never did see a 102D2, but I could be wrong.
Another big buyer of the 102A2 and 102B2 was GO Transit in Toronto. Their models are from the mid 80s as well.
Short Line still has a number of two-axle MCI buses (in the 705xx series, plus at least one formerly with roof sightseeing windows and numbered 70496) which probably date to the mid-1980's. Bonanza in R.I. had a series of them from 1986; don't know if any are still running. I also recollect that, at one time, Greyhound used some two-axle MCI's for PABT-Atlantic City service. Connecticut Limousine had some that must have been built in 1988 (based on fleet numbers).
The new (June 23, 2001) PDF files are up on the NJT website. All "cruiser" routes now feature a (really cheap in my opinion) drawing of the MCI D4000 in the new ocean wave stripes, replacing the long-time MCI MC9 drawing. Transit/suburban routes maintain their Flxible Metro schedule drawing, although Morris County Metro uses a B/W photo of a 30 foot RTS.
The MC9 still exists on some older schedules, though . . . to wit the 552 from Atlantic City to Cape May.
Chris
The service announcement can be found here - Acrobat file of the in-bus notice.
I've been gone since last Saturday and am finally posting (the technical difficulties this evening prevented me from doing so
earlier).
For my ease and so you don't have to spend a whole ton of time reading, I am dividing up the super long post about my trip into
sub-posts as replies to this one. They are all located on SubTalk. Please read the appropriate sub-post to read more about my travels of the past 5 days.
Enjoy!
Oren
Day 1: Acela and Westside IRT Adventures
Day 2: Nostalgia Train and Subway Series
Days 3 & 4: Consise Travels
Day 5: Brighton vs. Sea Beach, Bergen Lower Level, R142A, and More!
Day 6: Acela Home
On the N21 this morning on bus 352 (yeah one of the new ones had a problem) this beeping alarm kept sounding. We had to pull over a few times, shut down the engine, then restart it a few minutes later. The alarm would stop, then sound again. Fortunately it made it to Flushing and amazingly not a moment late.
The driver told me there was something wrong with the "computer chip". He said he was driving the bus on a few runs already and just had to do the shut down and restart every 30 minutes or so. The A/C was hardly running at all.
BTW going back 592 had very weak A/C. Once again a winner of a day!
Sounds like a "hot engine" or "Low water" warning. With an audible alarm, there should be a visible indicator on the tell-tale panel. Did you ask him about it?
Yeah he just said it was a "computer chip". Maybe he was trying to cover up the real reason, the tell-tale signs of poor maintainance, such as overheats and low water. The engine WAS running abit rough IMO.
Countless times drivers have told me when I complain about the frequent problems of poor maintainance. All these problems are giving me nightmeres at night about these LI Buses. This is the 4th problem I experienced in the past week. I think we need to send these LI Bus mechanics back to school!
I don't know how he came to that "diagnosis". There is no "computer chip" warning indicator on the panel. It's also possible for (any or all of the) indicator lamps to remain dark, but this in itself is another malfunction. The tell-tale warning lamps should be tested prior to pull-out. I wouldn't pull-out a bus without working lamps.
Would you want to ride in a bus with no "low-air", "engine fire" or "throttle malfunction" warning capability? LOL, I think not!
Regarding the air pressure indicators, there is a visible dial with dual needles but if there's no audible alert, I might not notice the low pressure intil...... ya know.... :-)
You can take a guess what happened to me again today. I was riding 356 on the N21 out of Glen Cove when the alarm starts going off just after picking me up. We make it to Roslyn where the driver gets everybody off the bus saying there was a "problem with the engine". I asked him what the problem was he said "low water". He shut the engine off. I told him about all the problems and he said the maintainance is terrible. He said there's a problem everyday.
He said this seems to happen to him almost weekly, he gets a bus leaves the depot and the alarm sounds when he gets to Glen Cove.
Also had 612 and 619 today, the poor 6V-92 was laboring with the A/C on and took 10 seconds to start accelerating from a stop.
LI Bus is in a real financial crisis. If they don't get cash to keep these buses up I think we're gonna start seeing service cuts.
This afternoon.
I got on #9356 on Q46. It was a good and a fast ride until Bell Blvd. After Bell Blvd there was traffic. So the bus was going a bit slow. Got off at Springfield Blvd.
Then I waited for a Southbound bus to come. About 5 Minutes after I got off. I got #4935 on Q88. Good BUT COLD AC was on. And it was FAST south of Hillside Ave. Got of at Queens Village LIRR Station.
So I walked to 222 St to drop off something for my friend. Then I walked back to Queens Village LIRR and missed #148 running the LIRR Shuttle still with CAS Logos.
SO I waited 50 Minutes for a LIRR Shuttle bus to come. About 25 Minutes as I waiting for the LIRR Shuttle to come.#8963 comes in and the B/O took a break for about 25 Minutes. Doing that time. #1773 was passing by Queens Village LIRR Station and it was "NIS". QV could have put #1773 on the LIRR Shuttle. It's a LONG WAIT for it to come. More Buses on the LIRR Shuttle means less wait.
About 25 Minutes after the B/O of #8963 was takeing a break. Me and other People started to broad #8963 and People have to go on the other side from the Bus Loading arera to broad #8963. It was a nice ride. The A/C's good. By time it got to Hillside Shops stop. It Became VERRY PACKED!!.
Once I got off #8963. I saw #234 on Q60 that's the route I needed to take. So I run to the Q60 bus stop. Bytime I got there. It was in the stop. So I took #234 on Q60 home. The AC was on and I saw the last window open when I got off. Somebody must have opened it. Who Knows.
Q46 Nova RTS#9356
Q88 Nova RTS#4935
LIRR Shuttle Orion5 #148
LIRR Shuttle Nova RTS#8963
LIRR Shuttle GM RTS#1773
Q60 GM RTS#234
I guess the B51 is leaving JG and going into UP. I saw three suburbans, RTS suburbans, on the B51. If that's so, then I'll be laughing all weekend.
Oh, I also saw a suburban RTS, #931X, on the B67 as I rode the Culver Line. Is the CNG station down AGAIN???
CWalNYC
JG got Some Nova Suburbans from UP. #9290 and #9288 was running on X68 today.
I took the B-51 late this afternoon. Because of some special olympics program in the city several express RTS from Ulmer Park were transferred to Gleason for a few works. They still have Ulmer Park decals and are going back to Ulmer Park once these games are also.
Also saw one on the B-67.
BTW IT is possible that the MCI's currently in Ulmer Park may be going to Staten Island because of the Academy bus situation
Thank You
"BTW IT is possible that the MCI's currently in Ulmer Park may be going to Staten Island because of the Academy bus situation"
It's also possible the buses will be retrofitted with matter-antimatter engines and get to Manhattan at Warp 9.
Please cite the source for this bit of news.
David
P.S.: Unless the "source" was an MTA Board Member, NYCT President Reuter, Department of Buses SVP Seay, Chief Maintenance Officer Walsh, or the General Manager of either the Brooklyn Division or the Staten Island Division, don't bother responding.
David
The coordinator for the DOB on Staten Island said they would add about 10 buses to various runs due to the Academy pull-out. UP may be where they'll get the extra buses from, but I think they've got enough idle out here to cover.
-Hank
I saw some RTSs on the B63 on Wednesday.
I Think they are there because they are also repowering the 93 T.M.C buses.
Hi ya!! :)
I won't be on Bustalk as of tonight. I am going to Phily to go to the SEPTA Roadeo. So I getting a chance to ride the NJ Transit Trenton Line and SEPTA R7 Trenton line. BUT I would just take Buses when I in Phily. So I would have some Train Photos and Lots of Bus photos.
So I would post what I rode when I get a chance.
So I need my sleep now. So See Ya!! :)
For those who haven't visited, Queens Village has a couple of websites. The official website is located at http://www.oe-pages.com/BIZ/Mlm/kwcarl/.
Thought you might find some useful information.
Since when did the B67 operate out of Ulmer Park?? Last week i was in Downtown Brooklyn and i saw RTS # 9319 in service on that route and i was wondering how could that be???????
It doesn't. The logo sticker was not changed.
We need some MTA routes down in Rockaway too. Especially to Breezy Point.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Rkway is too far off the map at the Jay st. headquarters. That's why DOT allowed Jamaica and Green Bus Lines to monopolize anything that wasn't on rails out near the Atlantic.
We need some MTA routes down in Rockaway too.
What are the leagalities..as to why the MTA's expressbusses...cannot get into Manhattan via NJ...I just read Acadamy bailed out of SI, and the locals now have to add on another hour to the commute. Any idea's..thanks..
they can and do use nj to get to manhattan. there is nothing preventing mta from rerouting si north shore service through nj.
A pile of shit approximately 10' deep.
-Hank
The X17 and X31 in the AM run via NJ, in the afternoon many deaheads also go through NJ to get to Manhattan.
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Apparently ,there is a Crosstown Bus,running in Hoboken ..can anyone advise of the Operator for this route
Thank you
Steve
I remember seeing the Hoboken Crosstown "bus" a number of times when I lived in Jersey City 3 years ago. I know it is run by the City of Hoboken, but I forget whether they actually operate it or contract it out. I recollect that they use a mini-bus for the service.
Routes are now 800 lines
example,,M10 is now 810,,M11 is now 811
The Metropark Loop Buses
801 to 805,,formerly Loop 1,Loop 2 ,,etc
The M was dropped,,an *8* was added in its place
Monmouth County (TCT) routes were NOT renumbered to 8xx - they remain Mxx. They will likely get renumbered when that contract expires.
i will check into this,this info was received from Academy Bus
Thanks
S.
The NJ Transit website reflects this - the Middlesex routes have been re-numbered into the 800 series, but the Monmouth routes remain Mxx.
let me correct my page
http://community-1.webtv.com/SMOKIECAT
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Q27 Limited Stop Service
Implementation September 2001
from Queens Village 700 Am to 9 AM
from Flushing 5 PM to 815 PM
Eastbound stops at Main and 39 av
Kissena and Main
Kissena and Beech
Holly and Kissena
47 av and FLB
48 Av and Bell Blvd
56 av and 220 St
Spfld and 58 av
Spfld and Horace (WB)
Spfld and Horace (EB)
and all stops bet Horace harding and Queens Village
LIRR
Westbound from Queens Village
all stops from QV LIRR to Horace Harding
Spfld and Horace (EB)
SPfld and Horace (WB)
Spfld and 58 Av
Spfld and 56 Av
56 Av and 220 st
48 Av and Bell Blvd
47 Av and FLB
Kissena and Holly
Kissena and CHerry
Kissena and 41 Av
roosevelt and Main St
Alternative -------LTD Service on 46 Av only
---------------------------------------------
X17 Weekday Evening Span Increase
Implentation Sept 2001
until 1130 PM
__presently until 820 PM only
--------------------------------------------
Bus Schedules
Effective Summer 2001
Immplementation in Summer of 2001
M23 M31 M57 M60 M66 M79 M86 M104 M106
Bx1/2 Bx4,Bx5 Bx14 Bx15 Bx26 Bx28 Bx34 Bx36
B1 B3 B7 B8 B15 B23 B35 B68
Q1 Q4 Q5 Q12 Q13 Q14 Q15 Q24 Q26 Q27 Q30 Q31 Q36 Q43 Q46 Q43 Q56 Q74 Q83 Q84 Q85 Q88
Staten Island Routes
40/90 44/94 46.96 s59,s61/91.62/92 74 78 79
X27 x28 x29 x63 x68 x90/92
It's interesting that 56 Av & 220 St is included as a stop for the westbound Limited - that stop does not exist, nor does that location. (If it were a stop, it would be on 56th, far side of Springfield Blvd.)
The eastbound stop for Queensborough Community College IS on 56th Avenue at the near side of 220th Street; the westbound college stop (included in the Limited list) is on Springfield, about 100 feet south of 56th Avenue.
The Q27 needs Limited Service at the height of rush hour. When I arrive in Flushing around 530pm to get my evening snack, the line for the Q27 is literally going around the corner and down the block. However, like all other LIMITED Service on other lines, it'll confuse the hell out of people. They'll think LIMITED service runs around the clock. I know on the Q46 going towards LIJ Hospital at 9am on weekdays, people ask if the bus is LIMITED stops or not. It even has happened on Weekends. It'll be very intersting on the Q27 coming this September. I feel for some of its customers. Now if the Q17 can get a LIMITED-then getting to and from Flu-shing will be better.
Q27#6130Gary
Q46#4933Gary
Q17#5162Gary
Teddy the dispatcher at 38 and Main will straighten them out
I agree! He/she must mean Springfield Blvd and 56th Av going westbound and 56th Av at 220th St going eastbound. He/she must mean that.
Ray
Is this for real or are you just wishing that this could take place?
Ray
As I have specified ,,numerous times==everything that I post,,comes from Actual MTA Documents---I have been receiving the NYCT Committee Agendas since 1994 or so
Nothing I print ,is opinionated or from a Dream Sheet
Thank you
Steve
So it is true that the MTA is considering making the Q27 a limited bus?
Ray
The Q27 will run Limited rush-hour service beginning September 2001. Additionally, the Q27 will run local service inside the Queensborough Community College campus at the same time.
HOW CAN THE Q27 run inside QCC?
Ray
Ray,
Please note,,everything I do post,is factual , not opinionated!!!
Steve
Okay, that means that the Q27 will be pulled off its route into QCC and go back onto its rote to Flushing or QV. That's five extra minutes of wasting time!
Ray
Maybe the buses will circle around the parking lot from entering the main gate. I graduated from QCC back in the early 80's. This idea of having a bus turnaround at QCC has been talked about since then.
i graduated in 1974
I wasn't given a detailed explanation because the manager was busy with another situation. The source is that of a division manager, so it's "from the top" (or as close as I'll ever be to the top) LOL!
I'll see what I can do about getting my hands on a route description (if it exists at this time). Because the Q27 isn't out of QV, it might be difficult for me as a BO. Some of you (Steve among others) might have a better outlet or source.
I believe that they might follow the school runs for the HS ,,
Steve
Onto the campus or just up 56 Avenue a ways?
The only way i could think of it going would be coming from flushing west on 56 avenue to 223 Street, drop off, and deadhead back to Flushing in the AM via Cloverdale and left on Northern. - assuming these trips that go here will be the outbound AM trips that make the short trip to Horace harding.
Well now that i think of it, they could use 56 av, right on 223, and right on 58 back to Springfield, because i think the PM school trippers stand on 58 Avenue.
So forget my first paragraph.......lol
I agree withthe school tripper routing,,would put them back on Springfield Blvd heading back west to FLushing
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Does anyone else see this apparent javascript error, or is it my outdated browser again?
You need Netscape 4.06 or higher, or IE 5.0 (I don't know if you can use 4.0).
Thanks, that's what I thought. My version is Mozilla 3.0 which is a subpar equivalent to IE 2.3 or something. I've gotta dump this paper-weight.
I think Mozilla is open-source Netscape. 3.0 would be NS 3.0 I guess.
I was looking at a NYCTA Manhattan bus map and I saw that the M103 duplicated that M101 along Lexington and 3rd avenues before continuing to Bowery and then city hall. Why not just have the M101 take over that portion and then extend it from City Hall to Battery Park. And for the northside of the M101 they could have it go the the GWBBS and then to the Cloisters.
Here how it would go as far as the extensions.....
Harlem Extensions (GWBBS and Cloisters)
Extend route down 178/179th streets to GWBBS. Return back to Amsterdam Ave for trips to Yeshiva University. Cut all service north of 187st street. Have the bus turn down 187th street and west to Ft. Washington Ave. Have the bus turn on Ft. Washington Ave and continue north to the Cloisters Museum.
Midtown Extensions (City Hall and Battery Park
Take over remainder of M103 route from Cooper Union to City Hall. Extend route from City Hall to Battery Park via Church/Trinity.
Added Points of Interest
1. The Cloisters Museum
2. Fort Tryon Park
3. Little italy
4. China Town
5. City Hall
6. Pace University
7. World Trade Center
8. NYSE
9. Battery Park
10.Staten and Ellis Island Ferries
I even did the route destinations....
(Southbound)
M101 - Amsterdam Ave.
Midtown
Via Lexington Ave.
City Hall
Battery Park
(Northbound)
M101 - Amsterdam Ave.
Harlem/Washington Heights
Via 3rd. Ave
GWBBS
The Cloisters
Your comments are welcome.
That's kind of a long trip, that would take possibly over two hours, even with an all limited stop route bus, considering traffic (especially on the Bowery and Church/Trinity).
Yeah, I know. Still, it would be kind of nice to know NYC had a route like that.
The 103 was created to shorten the routes of the 101 and 102.
As a rider, one of the side benefits of the creation of the M103 was to make it easier to spot a bus on Lexington Avenue that went south of E. 6th Street. Prior to the M103, a rider would have to look very closely to find the few 101's or 102's that were signed-up for City Hall. Now, a rider can ignore all 101's and 102's and just keep watching out for the 102. That leads me to think that the M15's to City Hall should get a different route number to make it easier for Second Avenue riders to distinguish between buses headed to City Hall and the majority that go to South Ferry.
A more recent creation of a new route for the same purpose was the M20 taking over the southern portion of what had been the M10.
I don't think that not going to work because what if the driver need to go to bathroom?? This is why MTA add M103 on the routes back in the early 90's to make the M101/102 shorter trip. My Father who used to work on M101/102 over 15 years at Old 100th Street & M101 is the about an hour and 25 minutes trip between 6th Street to 193th Street & M102 is about an hour 15 minutes trips between 6th Street to 147th Street. Between 6th Street & City Hall is about 14 minutes ride but Bowery is hell because most of the cars heading to manhattan bridge & make all the buses running late. I been there many time when my father work on M101/102 back in the 1983 to 1991.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
As earlier posters posted, the longer a bus route is the less reliable it becomes. Because of traffic, construction, etc what eventually happens is many buses are short turned and then the line falls apart. The theory behind the M103 is having a route serve the City Hall-Chinatown area and making more reliable by shorting the Nothern terminal to 125 St, this having all 193St/147St service all terminating at 6 St. making the longers lines more reliable. Even with this plan many 101/102 are shorted.
The three lines worked much better when they all came out of 100St because there was much more flexibilty in being able to make a bus any route you needed at the moment without really disrupting a Operators schedule. However with the route being split you really can't do this, except a Dispatcher at 6 St. being able to make a M101 a M103 in a dire emergency.
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Does anybody have a 1969 Brooklyn/Staten Island Bus Map. No charge please.
I would say it's unlikely somone will just give you one of these maps at no charge. They are considered valuable these days.
I, however am willing to pay for this map.
if it is the little one from years ago---Come and get it ,,it is yours
steve
Can you explain this in more detail?
I've got one. Last time I saw it for sale, it was going for about $15. Good luck getting one for nothing.
-Hank
Well. I back. Everything went well down. And the Roadeo was fine. Heres what I got on today. And my MOM went with me.
First at 6:20 AM. I got on a R46 #5733 running the (F). It was good ride on that. Got to 34 St by 7:05 AM.
Then walked to Penn STA and got there by 7:08. Got tickets and got Breakfast. Then got on a 7:32 NEC Train to Trenton. Got Car #1346 going to Trenton. Got there 7 Minutes late by 8:59 AM.
I run to the Ticket Counter and there was a line.
BUT it went FAST. So I got the tickets for the R7 and run down stairs to get on Car #366 on R7. Got off at Suburban Station.
Then I got on a NABI 416#5382 on C. Took it to the last stop on Broad ST and Geary St.
When I was at the Roadeo. I saw a Bunch of NABI's. And I saw about 8 of then painted White. One NABI #5103 and #5236 was not beening use and it was being show. #5236 have a Philles wrap around the bus. And it says "108 AIRPORT". Must be out of Red Arrow. A ElDorado was there. #4558 out of Midvale was being show. A RTS 35 Foot Soft Seater was there with the engines on. It sounds like the MTA's RTS's. Also Neoplan Articulated#7101 was there. It have the new Babilos sign on and people was takeing a break from the heat inside. Neoplan 40 Foot #3418 was there. Saw about 3 Windows open and it was opening and closeing from the wind or the AC. Volvo Articulated#7011 was there. The seats inside where 1x2 seating. The Flxible New Look and the GM New Look was there. About 2 Cutaway Vans where there. #2048 and #2052. #2052 was being use to transport stuff for the booth near by. The other was being showing. DART First State Gillig Low Floor #106 was there. The seats are nice. It says on the seats "DART First State". NJ Transit D4000 #7545 was there. This was the first time I ever saw it. It looks nice. And there was a few others.
Please see Part 2 of my post on after the Roadeo.
So after the roadeo.
I went to Broad and Geary St's to get the C. The C came and it was a NABI 416#5380. Took it to Walnut St. Then me and my MOM did a little looking in stores.
Then went on a 33 Bus and it was a Neoplan Articulated#7109. Took it to 8 St. Then after looking around. It started to RAIN HARD!!
And just before 3:00 PM. It stoped. Then at 3:16 PM. Went on the 409 Bus witch was D4000 #7546 to Trenton. Arrive at Trenton 17 Minutes late and the bus was right behind a Neoplan 40 Foot#3204 on 127. Left a few minutes early.
Then took the NJ Transit Trenton Line to NYC and got car #1469 to Penn STation.
Then went outside to walk to the (F). Then the final car of the day was a R46 #5892 on (F).
All of the Trains and Buses I rode have the AC on. And I comming again. BUT right now. idk the date. But I know is that I going to do it in August. So thanks for reading this.
To tell ya something. While I was on the R7. I saw 3 Cutaway Vans with the BREEZE Paint job near a Train Station on the R7.
While I was on the NABI going to Geary Ave. At Synder Ave. A Neoplan 40 Foot was running on 79 Crosstown.
Later. I saw a Neoplan 40 Foot on C. Only saw just 2 running on C today.
And you won't beleave this. A D4000 #7860 on Route 408!! A Newton Ave bus on a Washington TWP Route? Weard BUT Ture.
Also.I saw a NJ Transit Flxible MetroD Suburban on 405. 405 Runs Novas. NOT Metro D Suburbans.
And anouther Weard thing. BUT this time it's for Real and never ran before. Nova RTS #1251 running on Route 413!! Was it to run Metro D Suburban's? And it was not doing the Short Turn Trip. It was doing the Whloe route of 413.
And as for photos. I going to put them in.
Those breeze vans that you saw were probably at Cornwells Heights, where they have a huge park & ride lot and use the breeze vans to operate a shuttle between the platforms and different points in the lot.
Sounds like you had a nice trip. For future reference, I am pretty sure that you can buy a ticket for the SEPTA R7 from Trenton to Philly at Penn Station-NYC at the same time you buy your NEC NYC to Trenton ticket. This avoids having to buy a SEPTA ticket when you arrive in Trenton to change trains. Similarly, you can buy a NJ Transit NEC ticket at the main SEPTA stations in Philadelphia.
I picked up a NE Corridor NJT schedule and it says you can do that.
OK. Thanks. I never know about it until I read the Trenton Line timetable while I was on the train.
And as for the photos folks. I used up 2 Films and the 3 one have only have 6 Left to take photos. So it would be between 24 to 26 Photos at a time. So I would get a chance to post the link to where I have the photos.
what did the rts 35 footer look like.
It was in the OLD SEPTA Paint job. It was a slopeback RTS from 1980 with BLUE Soft Seats and a rear W/C Lift. And it also have Rooftop A/C. So it's sort of looks like the DDOT Novas with the Rooftop A/C.
Did artic #7101 still have the orange sign? I remember that since march, that particular bus, which I have seen only on routes 33 or 48, has an orange sign instead of a green sign.
#7101 still have the Bablos sign at the time of the roadeo. But I not too shure if all the Neoplans would get those Bablos signs.
The orange signs on #7101 are actually TwinVision signs. The Ballios signs would have been in a different font. Unlike the Ballios orange signs, the Twin Vision orange signs seem to be easier to read.
just like i remember it.
BALIOS NOT BABLIOS! AAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!
LOL Another grammar and spelling error. My goodness!
B16#823Gary
Maybe this has been discussed before, but look at the Orion VI logo on the BusTalk main page and you will see a Flxible. Cover everything except the face of the bus and you will see a striking resemblence. That's why I find it amazing everyone loves Flxibles but hates the Orion VI.
"...I find it amazing everyone loves Flxibles but hates the Orion VI."
Hey, not everyone.
I like the VI.
:-)
I love the Orion VI & the Orion I. Those are the ONLY Orions I like!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
The only thing about the Orion VI I dislike is the lack of seating it has .Otherwise this bus is quite fast and smooth with its ride.
Okay, I obviously missed a few things here.
First, when was PA1740 put back into service? Last I heard it was sitting in crosstown.
Equally important, when did PA1751 and PA1767 get scrapped? They were in service less than a week ago! What's really going on?
1751 I saw on the Q75 on Thursday. 1767 I saw the same day on the Q31. They ARE IN SERVICE-Still! 1740 has been a nomad She was in QV-JAM-GH-Storage-Back to GH Again. Who knows about 1740?
Recently Scrapped Buses at QV: 3977 3982 4337. They're stripped of all their decals and radios.
Those 1700s keep rollin rollin rollin!
Q31#1767Gary
Q75#1751Gary
Q88#1773Gary
Q46#1852Gary
That roster is effective Friday June 22nd, So basically until we see these buses again, they are scrapped effective Friday! What a difference a day makes!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
You might want to update your roster to reflect that RTS #1751, which was parked on track #27, RTS #1767 and #1773, which were parked on track 19, were all in passenger service today, Monday, June 25th. While I didn't see them on the road, they were on the floor sheet, ready for pull-out early this morning.
I can't say for certain how long they'll be around, but suffice to say, they haven't yet been scrapped.
The #709 appears to be using Orange Garage buses regularly now. I spotted 1380 on it yesterday and rode 1378 on Wednesday. While on that, we passed a #709 going the other way also with on Orange bus (forgot the #).
I don't see this on the other Market Street routes in the area, namely #72 and 74. Can't speak for the others.
D4000 and others, are you in the know?
thanks.
Great news, folks; I have just finished a 1:200 scale model of a 1969 Chicago Transit Authority Flx New Look. After a long drought of Flxible items on eBay (they usually have a great rare selection), I felt they were long overdue; the bus is now there if anyone is interested. Happy bidding!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
eBay ID: flxible
Great news, folks; I have just finished a 1:200 scale model of a 1969 PenTran (Hampton, VA) Flx New Look. These coaches were rare in the fact that they were equipped with Cummins engines.
After a long drought of Flxible items on eBay (they usually have a great rare selection), I felt they were long overdue; the bus is now there, along with a CTA version, if anyone is interested. Happy bidding!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
eBay ID: flxible
Early this morning when i park the car at 10th Ave & 219th Street heading to work at Kingsbridge Depot & i saw New Flyer CNG #856 park on 218th Street next to Kingsbridge Depot. So i went inside & there is no seats but there are few seat in the back than i went to look at Operator's Vehicle Condition Report & the date say 6/25/2001 with Kindsbridge Depot. Look to me like there are testing some routes or something. I really don't know why New Flyer CNG #856 during in Kingsbridge Depot??
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
This is the beginning of the 20 New Flyers that are gonna be used in the Special Olympics. The Seats are gone for the sheer use of Wheelchair Passengers ONLY! This is the reason why there is 23 Nova Suburban RTS T80-206s at Jackie Gleason! I believe that Kingsbridge will be the storage for some of these buses, however fueling is another story.
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
New Jersey Transit
Aren't the special olympics held in Nassau county?
Last time they were and they took the newest CNG buses for the transportation. Well maybe NYC transit is providing the buses this time, they shoudl because we don't have enough.
Special Olympics are being held right in Manhattan this year at various locations!
Regards,
T.Lo
Couldn't the buses refuel at Zerega Ave Facility?
Q44#658Gary
I believe so!
Regards,
T.Lo
The 316 nolonger start in Phily Greyhound Bus Station. Now it starts at Walter Rand Transportation Center in Camden. Then it would go to Phily Greyhound Station. Then it would go to Broad St and Synder Ave. Then it go's EXPRESS after that.
I did saw a MC9A out of Egg Harbor #6141 just comming out of the Broad and Synder stop yesterday. I think I saw it droped off about 2 People and broaded 4 People on to the MC9A. Now as for the fares. I think from Camden to Broad and Synder would be $1.40 I think. I not too shure about that. Do anybody know how much is it?
And BTW when Egg Harbor would get rid of the MC9A's? I know Washington TWP would be replaceing some. And Howell sould be replaceing them by March 2002.
$1.90, TWO ZONE RIDE, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A $1.40 FARE IN JERSEY!
Yes there is - $1.40 is the 2-zone fare in South Jersey.
For some reason, they have lower bus fares than North Jersey.
Can't be, before I became a NJT Employee, I was charged $1.90 to travel from Philadelphia to the Camden Station!
$1.40 is the 2-zone intrastate fare. Also fares on buses to and from Camden are different than the rest of SJ.
THANK YOU! YOU HAVE PROVED MY POINT! NUFF SAID!
Regards,
T.Lo
[$1.90, TWO-ZONE RIDE. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A $1.40 FARE IN JERSEY.]
1. There's no need to shout. Everybody here can read quite clearly; plus, Japanese business theory ("if you can't be correct, be loud") does not apply in this forum.
2. Your $1.90 two-zone ride was *interstate* - trips that cross the Hudson River charge $1.25 (GWBBS to Fort Lee), $1.90, $2.55, $3.25, $3.95, etc.; transfers are NOT sold or accepted. Trips crossing the Delaware River seem to have a similar fare structure.
3. The *intrastate* local fares are lower and apply to RIDES entirely within NJ, even on BUSES that begin or end in NYC or Philly. Transfers are worth $1.00 toward the second bus fare...
North: $1.00, $1.55, $1.90, $2.30, etc.; Transfers $0.45
South: $1.00, $1.40, $1.70, $2.10, etc.; Transfers $0.40
My ride several years ago on the #313 from Cape May to Camden (85 miles, 20 zones) cost $11.45. If I had ridden into Phiily, it would have been $13.60.
South Jersey fares are lower because I believe they were exempted from the last of 3 Kean-era double-digit whammy's due to a sharp ridership drop on the 2nd increase rendering it revenue neutral.
Actually, the last fare hike occured during the early part of the Florio administration - 1990. In any case, I always thought the reason interstate fares were different for service to New York and to Philadelphia was because of the lower bridge tolls between South Jersey and Philadelphia.
I thought they already got rid of their MC-9As. I know they had a few MC-9Bs due to the restrictions in place on the 559, but I didn't know about the 9As still being at Egg Harbor.
AFA Washington Twp is concerned, they are supposed to get their new buses soon, and they have a lot of MC-9As to replace, thanks to the junk sent south from Oradell.
Egg Harbor still have a few MC9A's as recording to your roster. And Egg Harbor can't use a D4000 on 559? What happins if a MC9B breaks down on 559 and they don't have any other buses on backup. They could just use the D4000's on 559 or a Flxible Metro D on 559.
I haven't had a chance to update the roster to reflect the MC9As that are no longer at Egg Harbor or Newton Av. I'll probably update that within the next couple of weeks.
As far as what happens with any breakdowns on the 559, I really don't know what would happen in that situation.
[I know they had a few MC-9Bs due to the restrictions in place on the 559]
I suspect I missed this when I was on vacation recently - what are the restrictions on the 559?
There is a detour in effect between New Gretna and Smithville on the lower end of the line due to bridge construction on US 9 over Nacote Creek. This detour is expected to last about a year, so that's probably why the MC-9As are being used for the time being.
They don't have no problem useing the D4000's on 559.BUT I think sometimes a D4000 would run on 559. I just woundering about what routes do the Flxible Metro D Suburbans out of Egg Harbor run on?
I have a full route description
dated 1999 June
Has this been verified
Regular route service shows Philadelphia to Camden to Wildwood to Cape May
Returns via Cape May --Wildwood---Camden --to Philadelphia
(GREYHOUND)
There is Ocean Drive Service from Cape May to Philadelphia
and from Philadelphia to Cape May
The Broad and Snyder Service ,both directions to and from Cape May
via I-76
Also Avandale Park and Ride Service Cape to Philadelphia
advise where are the changes
please
1. ARE there any seat above the first wheel?
2.with does the driver view look like?
No Seats on the wheels, at least on the MTA units. The Driver's stand point is like driving a D60HF Articulated because the Driver's Area is sorta on a raised Platform!
Regards,
T.Lo
if there is no seats on it .that mean it there is just a window
there.
EXACTLY!
Regards
T.Lo
yes, why don't you take a look at Trevor Logan's site for an interior view of the New Flyer C40LF. There's just a box covering the wheel and that's it.
I don't think any of them have seats over the front wheels. The wells are way too high.
I drive a D40LF all the time, and also have ridden them in Las Vegas, Phoenix, Oceanside, and San Diego and they all are the same, no seats on the wheelwells.
In Las Vegas, though, they were using them on the Strip routes a ocuple years ago (WHY? With all those artics....sheesh!!) and the bus was so crowded in the a.m. with all the hotel maids going to work around 7:30 a.m., you'd see one or two people climb up and sit on top of the wheelwell on the right side!! The drivers didn't seem to pay any attention. I could just see the bus hitting a bump and the people on the wheelwell hit the window and go out ass over teakettle onto the street.....
can't they just push the seats up in the aisle a little bit.
Hey they use the crap Gillags as well on the 301 and that is insane using a 40 footer on a heavily traveled route.
1: Nope, just an King Kong-sized cupholder-looking thing. And a huge metal box full of computerized stuff. No subwoofers though. What a pity; you could shove a BOMB system up in that thing.
2: The driver's post is WAY up higher than the floor. When fitted with a USSC driver's seat, it looks just like the bridge from the Enterprise in Star Trak, gadgets and all. What's more, the voice on the "STOP REQUESTED" message unit sounds a LOT like Captain Kirk, pause acting and all. Space....the...final frontier.
-F.
every bus have a black box full of computers
every bus have a black box full of computers
That just is not true. This all depends on what kind of components and systems a TA specs for the bus, although these boxes are generally easier to spot on low floor buses.
On some C40s I ring the bell, the stop requested sign goes on but I don't hear the bell, mainly I have this trouble on the early 800s, like 800-825 or so, and on the 1999 Orions anywhere from 6000-6349. I have three or four instances on these buses where the driver went by my stop even though I was clearly visible standing by the back stairwell and had rung the bell well in advance. Some just listen for the sound, and if there's no sound, we're in trouble.
I need to know from the depots EXACTLY how many Express buses are needed in both the AM and PM shifts. By express, I mean NOVAs, Orions, or MCIs.
Please list like this
YUK - AM - XXX Buses needed
PM - XXX buses needed
I am trying to figure out information so I can "EXPOSE" the TA on the Academy scandal.
Also, I need to know if what I heard is true in that NYCT will be getting 356 More MCIs.
Thanks!!!
Yes, it is in the planning that the MTA is getting more MCI buses. I think that the MTA is NOT part of this scandal. Academy bailed out and the NEW X21 and X22 will take over. NYS screw up!
Ray
Is that number of 356 correct???
I know about that, but I just want to shed some light on current bus placements,etc. and how NYC won't provide coverage.
Okay and yes it is 356.
Ray
I went with my dad to visit a friend who lives near the Bayonne Bridge (can't remember the name of the neighborhood) in SI two weeks ago, and I read in the newspaper he had about the fiasco over Academy Bus Lines. Here's my opinion, flawed or otherwise:
1) I thought it very rash that Academy would retaliate against SIers by pulling out their Manhattan Express services simply because...
2) NYSDOT jumped to another bus line that would be giving service in an entirely differnt part of the island.
But hey, this is how backroom politics is played. We're just pawns on the chessboard.
Then you read the article wrong. The NYC EDC, doing an end-run around the city franchise laws, awarded the contract to the more reputable operator, ie, the one with a proven record that had previously run a similar service, and din't yank buses to make charter runs. Admittedly, there is probably a bit of politics involved, but the records of the respective companies stand on their own.
Academy has been screwing their riders, especially in the summer and around holidays, for years. They were NEVER bound by any agreement to provide any service at all. Read my other posts on the subject.
-Hank
The Academy/Atlantic Express situation is a nycDOT problem. The TA is staying on the sidelines. The governor may step in if the mayor/nycDOT doesn't resolve it.
Mr t__:^)
I do not want this to go in the form of what's going on with Academy and NYC DOT.
I need the information from each depot that operates X Buses how many are required for runs in both the AM and PM Runs.
Some of the people work for these depots, I believe BIG AL and Hudson are two - but others can help me.
Thanks!
The only way BIG AL will ever be affiliated with Staten Island is when 2270 and 2660 are transferred from Yukon to Jamaica to live out their last days.
nycDOT publishes a "NYC Express Bus Map", mine is 1995 ... they don't change that much, anyhow call them at 212-487-8300 & ask for a copy to be sent to you.
BTW, the map includes nycDOT & TA routes.
Mr t__:^)
Due to overcrowding on the Novas PABCO may be in the Fall adding MCM10 service bringing it from hourly to half-hourly. Who knows PABCO may be able to trade some Novas for '94 Flxibles(May either be from Ironbound in exchange for MC-9As or NJT may trade an IBOA's Metro-Ds for some of PABCO's Novas)What was it again July 1st PABCO may start operating the Morris County-NYC Buses(except the 80 Branches to Newton and Sparta and the 78). So I'll look for some Metro-Ds on the 10 and maybe even a Metro-B on the Dover-Parsippany-NY route.
Now, this may be a silly idea, but why doesn't NJT just swap some 40 ft Novas to replace a few of the 30 ft Novas that PABCO has?
AFA the Newton/Sparta service, who will be operating those services?
Haven't you read about the problems with the 40 footers plus Flxible Metro-Ds would make the sysytem easier to add to a model RR.
[What was it again July 1st PABCO may start operating the Morris County-NYC Buses(except the 80 Branches to Newton and Sparta and the 78).]
I heard from a friend over the weekend that Lakeland will continue operating its current routes for another 5 years. I can't independently verify but suspect that this is true. (June 1 was the original date on which Lakeland service was to have been transferred elsewhere, including some routes to PABCO.)
I have a simulation on CD-ROM that lets you free drive around a simulated city. Sometimes I like to pretend I'm a bus that's on a run. To get to the map of the city which is not big at all {about 2x2 in miles}, go to www.studentdriver.com and click on the option at the top of the screen "Owner's Manual" and then click on the left side of the new screen "Virtual City Map." The most urban areas are in the center and on the top right corner which is called the Downtown area. The residential areas are on the top left and just below the center. The key: Gray areas=plain grass
Ghostly white areas=schools
Little grayish boxes or shapes on sides of road=houses/businesses
large lines as roads=highly used roads
smaller lines=less used
red line that goes down the right side=freeway {this goes around the city in a circle in a clockwise direction.
***On the bottom left of the screen you see two roads bump into the logo "Virtual City." These two roads are actually the same road that goes right through the logo. There is nothing in the logo no houses or anything.
This may take awhile but for fun try to plan out a route layout for a virtual bus system that goes through the city.
Does anybody have a collection of old NYC bus maps 1974-1997 all 5 boroughs. No charge. Please post or e-mail at upenieks1234@webtv.net if you have them!
Does anybody have a collection of old NYC bus maps 1974-1997 all 5 boroughs. No charge. Please post or e-mail at upenieks1234@webtv.net if you have them!
When you find a map that matches LL's description, send it to me and I'LL PAY YOU.
ALSO. There is now on eBay a 1976 Manhattan Bus Map. It's starting at $3.00 and can be ended early at $3.00 if you act fast! Search for "Manhattan Bus Guide" (w/ quotes). I just bought the 1975 Queens one that the person was selling for $4.50 TOTAL so that's the end of that.
No Charge??!!!
What planet you from?
I hope you're responding to the other guy's post, since I specifically countered by offering to pay (since I am realistic).
I have several including Culture Bus Loop II maps, Maps from the days of the B30 and B9 to Riis Park (1976). Many more, must take out of storage.
I will be willing to photocopy them for a fee. Respond for details.
I want them, and am willing to pay a fee.
i have a map from 1993.
Which borough?
The only fee is to cover photocopies or however else they are to be duplicated, thats all. (Color laser is ideal).
I want to know what you have to offer.
All Bus Maps (not including those from 1996 on)
1993 S.I.
1993 Queens
1991 Manhattan
1992 Bronx
1993 Manhattan
1993 Brooklyn
1991 " "
1990 " "
1988 " "
1985 " "
1990 S.I.
1994 Bronx
1990 Queens
1995 S>I>
1976 Culture Bus Loop II (B88)
1984 Manhattan
I will check the other basement after the holiday, have more there. Also have many older Subway Maps.
Route Description
Southbound
Chrystie St--West curb ,Far side of Grand St,South on CHrystie St,West on Hester St,South on Bowery,West on Canal St,North on Centre St,to South terminal and Layover on Centre St East Curb,Far Side of Canal St
Northbound
North on Centre St,,East on Grand St,to north Terminal on Chrystie St,West curb ,Far Side of grand Street
Implementation July 1,2001
Run on via West street ,West 16,9 Av,East 14,Broadway,Canal St, Centre St,to terminal at east curb fard side of Canal St
Run off
north on Centre St,in Lafayette St,Houston St,6 av,West 14 st,9 av,West 15 st in HUDSON DEPOT
Ridiculous.
It's an eight-minute walk between Grand and Canal. The bus will take longer than that. For those who don't want to walk, the J/M/Z stops two blocks away from Grand and goes straight to Canal.
And why is service starting three weeks before the bridge flip?
Will a fare be charged?
I don't think any fare would be charge. Like the LIRR Shuttle. And I think Hudson Pier would be getting more buses to do the shuttle. I think the Orion Suburbans from Edgewater Yard might be sent to Hudson Pier. And to walk to Canal St from Grand ST is a MACE!! That you could get lost walking in those streets. That it would take about 45 Minutes to get to Canal St. b/c there alot of streets in Chinatown. The bus would take about 20 Minutes since most of the streets the bus is going to take would be back streets and going to be less traffic going that way. And I think one street the bus is going to run on can't run 96 With or 102 With Buses and it's verry small. I think.
I think that most people are smarter than you and can get around without numbered streets. If not, there's always a neighborhood map and I'm sure people plan in advance.
Where do you come up with 45 minutes? I timed the walk yesterday from the Grand mezzanine to the Canal mezzanine: eight minutes flat. (Most of the streets in Chinatown, including the ones you need to know about to get from one station to the other, are on the standard grid, and the stations are only a few blocks apart.) I doubt a bus could make it in that time except in the middle of the night.
Damn, I've photographed Chinatown so many times, it's not even funny. The walk from Canal to Grand is a measely 10 minute walk. Anyone who knows the subways and has street savvy will be able to do this, but if you insist upon nagging the MTA for a damn shuttle for the lazy people, be my guest, another batch of buses wasted...
Well it can be a people traffic jam on Canal, but this can easily be avoided by using other side streets. Yeah the walk is a piece of cake to me, better than walking to the N27 bus stop here in Sea Cliff that's for sure. Of course when it's 95 degrees out, any walk is exhausting. :-(
Q46,
Most of the people this shuttle would serve know their way around their own neighborhood.
Went by TCC today-got the roster sheet for what they have in service plus a lot fo buses parked outside(they dont have room indoors-heck,im amazed these buses have not been vandalized yet). Here were my findings:
Painted Buses in new design: 2803,682,680,706,2806,669,727,2814,2820,2809,2802,735,793,682,719.
Also, saw #695 in the new paint job on the Q33 line. THIS BUS HAS TINTED WINDOWS WITH NO SCRATTCHI ON THEM!!-A Beautiful bus.
Also saw GMC New looks #621 and #623 in the back. Do these buses ever run?. Plus, saw a lot of ORION V-CNG buses. #3016 and #3067 had a wrap on one side-looked good.
I rode the Q53 today with a new driver-he had only been with the company 2 days. We got late to 116th St and talked to the dispatcher(who loved the view we saw ;-)-and was polite to me when i told him why we were late-traffic at Liberty-X Bay Blvd.
Is TCC replacing the windows like they did on #695?
M2-#6360 NOVABUS
M60-#8776-NOVABUS
Q33-#695-RTS II-04
Q53-#3038-ORIon V-CNG
Q35-#247-RTS II-04
B3-#7514-GMC RTSII
TCC ROster:
640-740,761-794,1183-1184,2050-2073,2136,2140,2142,2144,2147,2801-2829,3001-3071.
Here's what's scrapped form TCC Yard:
641 643-644 646 648 659-660 665 677 686 692 724 2137-2139 2141 2143 2145-2146.
736 was another bus that was repianted not too long ago and her windows were also replaced.
621 and 623 are museum buses so they do not run in revenue service.
2136 I think was retired too.
Q33#695Gary
Well, if the 1994-1996 Orion Vs have the Detroit Diesel series 50 engine, why do buses #416 and #444 have a tail pipe at the top like the repowered 1993 Orions? I wonder if the rest of them will have the pipe moved like #416. That's the second one i saw!!!! It was all painted like new....saw it at 72nd St/Bway...
CWalNYC
Orion_V_M104_#444
I saw and photographed 444 running on the M101 but in the photo where its rear is visible, you can only see the right half (I was photographing the MetroCard bus, not 444). I didn't look for such detail when I saw the bus and I am sorry none of my photographs (which are not visible to the public on my site yet) give any light on this case.
Same engine, it is just being switched from the bottom to the top. All 1994-1996 (402-680) are going to be just like that.
Ray
I have seen MCI's from Ulmer Park signed up for X31 - Coney Island, traveling along the X29 route.
Is this a new Express Bus Route I was unaware of??
May be assigned for the Brooklyn Cyclones Minor League Baseball Game tonight which ended on the plus side tonight as they beat the Scrappers from Ohio 3-2 in 10 innings. At least they play better than the NY Mets which on the sad note lost their 5th straight 2-1 vs the Cubs. Mets are slip-sliding away!
X31#2800Gary
[MCIs signed as "X31 Coney Island"]
That's probably a typo by whoever programed the signs.
Yes! It's that time again. Neither I nor WMATAGMOAGH will be around to chat on Saturday, so I, rather than skipping a week or allowing an anarchous chat will move the chat to Wednesday! Once Atlas 1.2 is uploaded, an official announcement will be made.
SUBTALK LIVE THIS WEDNESDAY
June 27, 2001
7:30 PM ETBusTalkers are welcome, too!SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening! The Wednesday evening chat is a one-week special. There is no chat this Saturday, the 30th of June!
As in any Internet forum or chatroom, certain polices and rules need to be created and enforced. SubTalk Live is no exception. The following policies are in effect at all times in the chatroom or when making posts on SubTalk and BusTalk pertaining to the chat:
1. ANY public transit related topic can be discussed (bus, subway, or railroad).
2. It is requested that you use your handle as your chat nickname.
3. OPs will be the sole people in the chat to deem a topic off subject and are the only people who can make announcements on SubTalk and BusTalk pertaining to the opening, closing, delay, cancellation, postponement, software, server, or technical difficulties with the chat. When in doubt over what you are about to do, don't do it! If you have a problem with any of the above issues, e-mail an operator. Please do not post on SubTalk or BusTalk! This also applies to responding to this message. Do not respond to this message unless you are posting a question relevant to SubTalk Live. Do not post announcements pertaining to the chat.
4. Anyone who disrupts the chat in any way (scrolling, profanity, obscene remarks, constant chatting off-topic, or any of the above) will be punted and/or banned from SubTalk Live with or without warning.ARE YOU READY TO SUBTALK LIVE???
Just go to http://www.subtalklive.com and join in! If you use mIRC, do your thing!NOTE
It is strongly reccomended you enter the room and troubleshoot BEFORE Saturday night! If you encounter problems, e-mail an operator, do not post on SubTalk/BusTalk!WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU!
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POST
For an explanation of this request, see the chat policies.
is operated by Academy
Can anyone tell me which routes are cotracted by NJT
3__ Routes
Thank you
Steve
NJT Contract Routes To Academy are the
2, 88, 123, 125 and now the 322!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
If I recall correctly, the 322 is no longer a NJ Transit route, but operated directly by Academy. The other four routes (2, 88, 123, 125)are NJT routes contracted to Academy/#22 Hillside.
i thought the 322 and the 323 were gven back to NJT
http"//community-1.webtv.net/smokiecat/
i thought there were more of the 300 series
I have heard ,,on numerous occasions,,of Command Center ,in the Buses ,,on their radios
How or what can i do ,to hear these radio transmissions ,,including detours,,reroutings,,etc
If you sit near the Bus Operator,you will always hear these types of Radio Items,,I would love to be able to monitor this type of radio
Can someone assist me
Thank you
Steve
With any 800Mhz-capable scanner from Radio Shack (or whevever), you can hear every conversation from console, control, dispatchers, road trucks, hand held units, etc:
http://www.n2nov.net/transit2.html
I think a widely-used unit is the "Bearcat" or something.
How far do does scanners go anyway?
Well, first I would suggest you need a scanner and there are many to choose from but thats for another board. You then could either buy a frequency guide for your area or save some money and find a frequency guide on the web. If you have any further questions please feel free to email me.
Hi
I know about scanners,,I work for OEM FDNY .
I am concerned about a trunk scanner ,,I live in Westchester County ---what kind of system do I need to be able to receive Base signals
http://community-1.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT/
Steve
You need an 800 mhz capable scanner - preferably one that has 'trunktracker' technology. It has been around about 4 years and the technology has progressed to the point where you can actually program a specific radio number in the scanner and just listen to it.
I have a third generation Trunktracker - a Uniden Bearcat 780. Besides listening to all the police and fire business in the city, i have NYCT 800 mhz surface system programmed as well.
Using a technology called 'I-call", I have programmed the numbers of all the Queens Division handheld radios i know of. Listen long enough and you can figure out what radio is assigned to which dispatcher post or which patrol car, etc. You can track them when they use 'call bus' mode - the diaplay on the scanner flip-flops between the radio ID number and the bus number.
I also have the ID numbers of the road trucks put in. When they key their mike to talk to base (TA) or systems radio(OA), their ID comes up and it flip flops with the console's ID number - usually a number that starts with 7000XX.
As for the buses, they can receive general messages either on a borough-wide or depot-wide basis, or just one on one with a road dispatcher or console in ENY at 25 jamaica Avenue. There are several 'consoles' - desks, etc, where dispatchers are stationed. If a bus must call in, the b/o hits a button 'PTT' push to talk on his radio. This sends a data burst to the console of the depot the bus is out of (more than 1 depot per console most of the time). This data burst contains the bus number, run, route, and the operator's pass/payroll number. It appears on the screen and the dispatcher connects with the b/o and whatever problem exists is taken care of - whether that be running late, missed meal, customer injury, breakdown, lost articles, etc.
I must say it gets a little wild at times, particularly, Staten island in the evening rush, orchestrating all those buses which most of the deahead back to Manhattan late and miss their second trips. It's quite interesting.
You can program all these different IDs into your scanner.
Go to Brooklyn 67's post in this thread and get the URL where the specific talkgroup IDs are located.
I live in Westchester,would i be able to hear the radios from the consoles
Thank you
Steve
Does anyone have a COMPLETE listing,,up to date
for the IBOA operators
thank you
Steve
There is something for anyone interested in Bus Operations
Bring up
http://community-1.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT
NJ Bus Routes
Westchester and Putnam Cty Routes
CT Transit Routes
Take a look
The NYCTA spec Flxibles had their share of problems. I remember back when I was riding JBL, I could always tell when a Flxible was coming. The air dryer sounded very unusual. However, I have ridden Flxibles bought by MSBA, one of them was PA 1030, and I enjoyed them a lot. It helps that they were not TA spec. I have also ridden the SWB Flxibles from Suffolk Transit. The one bad thing that I could say is that the transmission needs an extra two cogs. In top gear, the 92 engine is craving for an upshift. But the JBL flxibles were not all bad. They were very fast, and the drivers didn't hold them back.
This afternoon.
While I was on #705 on Q60. I saw #1852 on Q46. The smoke smell is no more and the windows are like the 1999 RTS's. The engine on #1852 sounds like the 1990 and 1993 RTS's. And it got a fresh coat of paint on it.
Behind #1852 was #4448 on Q74. #1852 looks better then #4448. Seems like #4448 is running on Q32,Q44,and Q74 lately.
Q46 GM RTS#1852
Q74 GM RTS#4448
Well folks 1751 is alive and well! I saw her along Utopia Pkwy last night going towards Jamaica so she was either on the Q30 or Q31. I didn't see the front of the bus-I just saw her from the rear.
Keep on rollin 1751!
Q30#1751Gary
I saw #1773 and #1751 at Jamaica Terminal on 6/26/01. Dont know which lines they were on but they were running.
Today I spotted #9030 RTS Express bus running local service on B11. Bus was a Ulmer park bus, but this line is run out of Jackie Gleason.
Alos today, B16 RTS Express Bus with Ulmer stickers. What's going on?? Why run Ulmer RTS Express buses on local Jackie Gleason routes??
9030 is not an express bus, but 9300 is...probably a typo.
As has been reported here several times over the past couple of weeks, a batch of 9250-9349-series express buses from Ulmer Park have been operating out of Jackie Gleason Depot. A group of low-floor buses from Gleason have been taken out of service to be used for the Special Olympics, and these buses have taken their place.
David
Yes it was a 9300 series, how many CNG low floors went to the special olympics? And for how long?
I don't have the exact number. I'd estimate roughly 20, and I don't know for how long.
David
For the same reason, two weeks ago i saw RTS # 9319 in Downtown Brooklyn on the B67.
I will be away from the evening of Tuesday, June 26, 2001 until at least the morning of Monday, August 20, 2001. During this time, I will have limited access to e-mail, the Internet, and SubTalk and BusTalk, but I may make an occasional post. Response to e-mails may be delayed and there will be no updates to my website during this time (one was just completed). I wish you all the best until my return.
Sincerely,
Oren H.
Webmaster of Oren's Transit Page
http://www.orenstransitpage.com/
1948: The Bx41 bus route begins operation.
Bx41#5496MikeLimited
Where do you get these facts from?
You can send away for an annual copy of the Department of Buses "Insiders Guide". It lists a chronological history of the dept of buses, rosters, and much more.
Call 1-888-692-8287 and request your free Insiders Guide.
Thanks!
9537 was running Monday night on the Q20A and again Tuesday morning on the Q20 Flushing-Reeves Ave shuttle, wearing Jamaica decals. I'm guessing some of Stengel's Orions are out of commission for repowering, or does a Q20 trip occasionally come out of Jamaica to make up for a gap in service?
Before the Q20A and Q20B, the Q44 was a split route between Casey Stengel and Jamaica. WHY? Well, the last stop of the Q44 was at Archer Av which is three blocks from the Jamaica Depot. I went to Supthin Blvd and Jamaica Av back in 1997 and I rode bus 4589 from Jamaica on the Q44 to the Bronx Zoo. So, on paper the Q44 is from Casey Stengel BUT it really is shared by Jamaica. Since CS got more Orions from Yukon (631-680) then the Q44 service from Jamaica was taken over by CS at all times. However, when the Jamaica Depot closes half of the buses will go to the CS Depot BUT those buses will be used on Jamaica routes ONLY (Q17, X63 and X64). QV Depot will hold the other half of the buses (Q3, Q4, Q5, Q42, Q77, Q84 and Q85)
Ray
When Buses go to other depots when a depot closes. That depot would use it on any route. So a Nova Suburban would run on Q74 and a Orion5 Suburban on Q17 for example. So that's what you call playing fair. I am hopeing Q74 would be a Fully Suburban Route when Nova Suburbans come to CS one day. And I don't think the X63 would be out of CS at all. b/c CS Depot is far away from the X63.
It makes sense to have the 2 Jamaica express routes at Stengel because these buses run on and off via the expressway. They'll probably use LIE/CIP for run ons. Dead head trips from NYC will return to Stengel faster than they would have to QV, so this move looks like a winner.
I can also see the Q17 coming out of Stengel because.... what else can they hold? All other Jamaica routes service southern Queens.
I can honestly say I'm *not* looking forward to sharing the depot because parking is already streched to the limit, and the fuel line, at 9pm is already down 222nd Street. Just wait until double the buses start pulling in. Even with more drillers, we can only fuel 2 buses at a time.
Although the stipulations will indicate Jamaica buses for Jamaica routes, and vice-versa, I'm sure you'll see a variety here and there. A bus is a bus, and when needed, will be used.
Is there any new news on when this all takes place?
[So, on paper the Q44 is from Casey BUT it is really shared with Jamaica.]
As has been stated previously on BusTalk, there are times when a spare bus from one depot might be used on another depot's route in order to maintain service.
More than likely, a bus on the Q44/20 broke down (probably at or near the southern terminal) and was replaced by a spare from Jamaica. In any event, the Q44/20 is picked - and thus operated - by Casey Stengel drivers, even if they have to use a Jamaica bus.
Same thing when a Q44 Bus break down when in the Bronx. About Last Year on the Whitestone Bridge. I saw a TMC RTS#8033 when it was out of Gun Hill running on Q44. I was thinking that Q44 is now split with Gun Hill? And when I checked out the rosters. Q44 was not split with Gun Hill. Then I was thinking that #8033 was being loaned from Gun Hill and it was not.
Q44 TMC RTS#8033
I remember seeing lots of Jamaica Buses on Stengel's Routes:
The late 4566 Q44
The late 4591 Q28
8939 Q20B-and I have a pic to prove this on transitworld.org.
I also remember seeing 8939 on the Q76 1 time too.
I rode 5150 on the Q76 1 day last year-was expecting an Orion Coach and when I saw an RTS, I was scratching my head in puzzlement.
I also remember this very strange move: 552 Q17-Yes that's NOT a misprint. I was walking on Main St and saw 552 with Q17 sign to Jamaica. This was back in '99 I remember. Very odd INDEED!
So I guess it can go both ways-Jamaica Buses on Stengel's Routes and vice versa.
Q76#5150Gary
Q17#552Gary
www.transitworld.org
I saw the same thing too yesterday. While I was waiting for a Q20 Bus to come at Main St and Queens Blvd. I saw it and I told my MOM this."I never saw this type of bus running on Q20."
[Jamaica bus being used on the Q20]
My guess is that a Casey bus broke down, probably at or near the Merrick & Archer terminal, and a Jamaica spare was "borrowed" in order to maintain service.
This is not an unusual occurance. On Monday 6/25, Jamaica bus #4554 was spotted operating on the Q30. In the Jamaica area (165 St Terminal or Parsons Archer) there are several Jamaica Depot spares or "swing" buses (buses used by operators and dispatchers to take their lunch breaks) that are available in the event that a bus were needed on ANY Queens Division route coming out of Jamaica.
Mark
95% of the time there is a spare bus either at Merrick and Archer, 165 Terminal or the Teardrop(jamaica Center). They just use a bus - ANY BUS - to make service when they have to.
Most people i know just want A BUS with A SEAT and An A/C. I'm sure most people are oblivious to the different types of equipment NYCT uses. They just want to get where they are going. If you are the dispatcher at Merrick and Archer and u have 60 people lined up for the broken down Casey bus, and you and those 60 people see an empty bus (JA decals or not) sitting there idle, you would probably give the Casey B/O that bus(he might like it too), instead of you- the dispatcher-being lynched by a hot, angry mob.
That certainly makes sense; I just didn't know if it was S.O.P. or not. It also seems odd that the same bus was running out of CS two days in a row; maybe it spent the night and went back to Jamaica after its short trip to Reeves Ave on Tuesday.
I got a question. That the 92 and 133 runs ElDorados at all times? I have saw photos of ElDorados on 92,and 133. And anouther question. What food places are in Exton Square Mall? And when the Cornwells Hts Parking Lot Circulator runs?
92 and 133 are somtimers with eldorado
[That the 92 and 133 runs ElDorados at all times? I have saw photos of ElDorados on 92,and 133.]
Not lately. The 92/133 runs have been covered mostly with what have to be the Breeze vans in the worst condition - I've seen some Breeze vans on the 92 with the interior light fixtures literally dangling, not to mention several of these vans with doors that don't work. When it comes to equipment, Chester County routes in general (and the 92, 133, and 206 in particular) usually get the buses in the worst shape.
What food places are in Exton Square Mall?
[It's a typical food court - it includes a McDonald's, a Popeye's, a pizza shop, a chinese food shop, a chessesteak shop, and a Dairy Queen/Orange Julius among others.]
And when the Cornwells Hts Parking Lot Circulator runs?
[Usually during weekdays. I think it meets every R7 train during the AM/PM peak hours and midday hours.]
Thanks.
I would be scare to ride those Buses. I am afread that someone in the bus could get hurt by the lights dangling. That's a safety problem. Did you write a letter on those buses that the lights are dangling? Did not write a letter. You should write a letter to SEPTA. And you have been inside those buses ever? And how many people do the 92 Take from Westchester and from Exton Square Mall? I hopeing some inprovements by August. By time I would be takeing the 92 to get to my Hotel in Westchester. Now I think the ElDorado should be kept on the 92 and 133 only.
And BTW. Did you have the Page on the 2001 SEPTA Roadeo up yet?
That's going to take a couple of weeks. I'm still working on the same roll of film that I used for the Roadeo pictures. I hope to have the pictures in about a week or two, depending on when this roll is used up (it's a 39-exposure camera that I used, rather than the 27-exp I normally use).
so that mean that your photos updated won't come to about next month.
Early next month, but next month nonetheless. I hope to have the roll complete by next Wednesday, so I can get it dropped off for developing on Thursday and have the pics in my possession by next Saturday.
OK. BUT how about a list of buses that where there at the Roadeo? I might need some help since I can't rember some Bus # of the bus that I took photos at.
just post a picture with out the number.
I'll try to have that part of it up by tomorrow. I have been very busy with other things this week and I haven't really had time to post the SEPTA Roadeo page yet. I'll try to get an article posted then post the pictures next weekend.
There have been daily bus moves this week running out to Lodi and picking-up repowered buses. I asked the GSPT which buses were being returned, but he didn't have that information. I'd assume 8375 was one of them, but I'll check with maintenance tomorrow and find out which buses were brought back this afternoon.
8386 may be the other-she went to Zerega Yard for repowering recently. 8375 has returned with a fresh coat of paint but is still out of service. There's no number board in the rear and the inside panel under the driver's seat is being worked on. 8362 came back with a fresh coat of paint and is naked of ads but has not been repowered yet-go figure. 8362 has been on the Q46 for the past 2 days. Can't wait to ride on the repowered 8375 on the Pike.
Q46#8375Gary
To D4000.
Where is the Trip report that you was to post up? I would like to see the trip report. Please.
Thanks.
Sorry, I ain't posting a damn thing! As you can probably tell, I'm not in the best mood!
T.Lo
Please do. You was to post it on Tuesday after you posted that thing on Monday.
WHAT PART OF I'M NOT POSTING IT DID YOU MISUNDERSTAND.
THE I'M, THE NOT, THE POSTING, OR THE IT?
CHRIST O' MIGHTY, LOOK HERE CHILD, WHEN SOMEONE SAYS NO LET IT GO, THAT'S ONE THING THAT ANNOYS ME ALL TO HELL! ALONG WITH TOOOOOO MANY DAMN QUESTIONS!......Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Look. I nolonger a CHILD. I just a 13 Year Old Teen just waiting for what I want it. And that won't stop me. If I want to get the info and someone don't want to tell and I want to hear it. I keep on asking until they give up and let me hear the darn info. SO PLEASE DO!! And I would be HAPPY!! :)
OK you what, NO! I'm a damn adult and ain't no 13 y/o CHILD gonna tell me what the hell they want and when they want it.
This is the #1 reason why I ain't telling you shit! Because when someone tells you NO, you don't quit. You are not gonna progress in life with that attitude, So as far as I am concerned, you can _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _!
Not even my own mother dares talk to me like that, so re-evaluate what you just said, becuase you are cut off from this information source!
Regards,
One Pissed N@#%$!
Sometimes I just want the info so like that if it was the June 23 SEPTA Roadeo if you went to. I could have saw you there. BUT I was not too shure if you was there. BUT I am not a person that's gives up when it comes to Info and stuff like that. And I not a CHILD. OK. So Please I know you don't want to do it. BUT I want to know. Why you don't want to say it? You afread to post it? You think there's some part's missing? Come ON Please? And I am a good person and sometimes I act like this and I can't STOP IT RIGHT NOW. :)
I so sorry. I don't need the report now. I was just asking if you could do it for me. If it's OK to do so. And do you know when the Moveing to the new server would be done by?
You sure LOOK like a child. If you want to have a personal conversation, take it to email. It's poorly recived to post 'TO' messages on a public message board, especially to a person who posts their email address.
-Hank
I may look like a Child. BUT I AM NOT!! I am 13 Years OLD!! So who says that I am a child. I AM NOT A CHILD!! By time a CHILD turns 13. They become a TEEN. Don't you get that?! PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT A 13 YEAR OLD IS A TEEN. NOT A CHILD!!. WHAT A FOOL!!
I have to put in on this one....
You are a "child" until you turn 18. Childhood is birth to 18. Just because you are thirteen doesn't mean you are not a child. You need to get that through your head!
Also being thirteen and still a "child" you need to respect older adults and not get loud with them! Like you did me and like you just did with Hank!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Thank you. Of course, since you've seen me in this mode before Trevor, you know why I said he looked the way he looked.
-Hank
I VERRY SORRY ABOUT THAT. My MOM said that once a child turns 13. That they become a Teen.OK. And also. Please don't use Curse Words on BT. b/c I don't like that NASTY Talk and it's BAD to the Bustalkers too.
You know, if your mom tells you to go jump of the Brooklyn Bridge, do you believe her?
-Hank
Not relly I won't believe her.I believe her on somethings. Things like that I won't believe her.
Teen,child,and kid they all the same thing.
I know that you drive the S79, as mentioned in previous posts. That means you're at YUK.
Can you please find out how many buses are needed in the morning and afternoon on the Express runs?
Also, if you can, find out the same info fro CAS depot.
THANKS!!!!
Maybe he's on vacation or something. This is the 3rd day in a row you aksed the same thing.
OK. I got some good news.
The Good news is that. The first 24-26 Photos from the Saturdays Phily trip would be comming by Tommorrow. So I would post the link to the Photo Page on the Trip Photos.
when are you goning to post it.
sothe first is feature the roadeo
I came across an interesting article at the Maryland DOT web site. It concerns the replacement of destination signs on 250 of Md.MTA's buses (presumably the NABIs and some of the Flxible Metro Ds/Es) from the present Luminator MegaMax or TwinVision LeDot with Ballios signs.
Thanks for the info; Balios makes quality equipment. Our 100 new RTS-06s in Detroit came with Balios signs and several older buses have been retrofitted.
One thing: I read the article at the website and did the math. If a $2.7 Million contract provides 250 sign systems, that comes out to over $10,000 per system. I know that state-of-the-art LED systems are expensive, but is that really how much these things cost??
I would be curious to see how the different brands (Luminator, TwinVision, Balios, Vultron, etc) and types (LED, LCD, flip-dot, hybrid) of signs compare in price.
Saw the report on NY1, showing the NYC exhibit.
It had a redbird train - not a WF one.
Also - an Orion VI - I couldn't catch the # of the bus. I am not sure if I heard correctly, but is this exhibit supposed to be open untik 7/4/01???? And if that is the case, then the bus will remain there????
Is this the Smithsonian? that you're talking about? If it is I know about the Redbird-it's R33 Car #9056. Not sure about the Orion Bus though-sorry. :(
Q17#9056Gary
It's bus 6357
Ray
Yes, I saw them this morning, but I couldn't get too close because I was in my car. Then when I was driving away I saw a MTA GMC (Truck) Suburban.
Wayne
On ABC 7 Last night. They was showing #6357 on TV with the Headsign saying "M96 Crosstown". I wounder if they could have put a head sign saying "X31 YUKON DEPOT". OR "X1 YUKON DEPOT". And here's a FUNNY sign they could have put up "Q50 BAYSIDE VIA BELL BLVD.". I JUST WITCH THERE WAS A Q50 AND A BUS THAT GO'S UP BELL BLVD SOUTH OF NORTHERN BLVD.
The bus went down with its "storytelling" bus driver, who has been with the TA for several years. I assume the bus (and driver) are coming back to NYC :).
It is my pleasure to announce that 1970 Flxible #699 (ex-Mid Island Transit and Metropolitan Suburban Transportation Authority) will be one of the guest buses on Wednesday, July 4th, 2001, at the New York Transit Museum’s 25th Anniversary Celebration and the 9th Annual Bus Festival.
#699 will feature an interior exhibit of over 100 photos of historic and contemporary buses from Nassau County, from systems including but not limited to as Bee Line, Jerusalem Avenue Bus Line, Hempstead Bus, Rockville Center Bus Corporation, Schenck Transportation Company, and Utility Lines. In addition, historic "car card" advertisements will be displayed.
8x10” camera negative-original professionally-produced photographic prints (not scans or copies) of most of the photos on display inside #699 will be available for purchase, in addition to thousands of other photos of trolleys, subways, elevateds, buses, and all-service vehicles from the New York, New Jersey and Philadelphia area, dating from the mid 1930s to the early 1960s.
The few remaining copies of our 1996, 1997 and 1998 New York Area Bus MegaCalendars will also be available, on a first come-first served basis.
I look forward to seeing everyone there.....
The work you have done to this bus is simply remarkable! I made a big boo-boo in picking to work on the 4th (when we picked for that holiday many, many months ago), but requested an AVA for the day once I heard about the special day at the museum. If the TA grants me the day off, I look forward to attending the festivities, and of course being able to enjoy your display.
And I thank you very much for your extremely kind words. The bus has just returned from Atlantic Diesel (for those
unfamiliar with this outfit, they do heavy maintenance work for the New York City area's bus and truck firms) for its first
ever (under my ownership) full checkup and tuneup, and the staff there continually remarked how well-maintained and fast
this vehicle is. There is some additional interior work to be done, primarily touch-up and reinstallation of the original soft
seats, but, as with any vehicle restoration project, a good deal of time and money is necessary. This bus is one of three
known and still existing that came from the predecessors of MTA Long Island Bus, but the only one roadworthy at this time.
#699 has been as far south as Philaelphia and north to northern Conneticut, and I hope to journey with it to Washington DC
this summer. Because of insurance restrictions, however, passengers cannot be carried. I hope 699 is with us for a long
time, demonstrating to all (especially to today's bus manufacturers) that it was once possible of building a good, reliable,
serviceable bus.
Kudos to you for doinng a wonderful job on this bus; it looks really good and is a prime example of the Flxible New Look. As the curator of a bus and trolley museum, I recognize a job well done whenn I see it. Great work Joe!
-F.
Great news, folks; I will soon be making a diecast model of the beloved (to some, controversial to others) NYCTA Grumman 870. The model is to be of no. 236 and will feature the correct blue stripe and other details; it promises to be a very nice replica of the real thing.
If anyone is interested in the project, let me know!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Any news from anyone on when her esteemed low, long and tall self will finally make her long-awaited grand public NYC debut?
Or at the very least, when the damn things will finally get here?
We're suppose to see the 2nd demo for in passenger testing sometime this summer!
Yes, that's right the 2nd Demo, One already graced our doors at Jackie Gleason back in Decemeber!
Personally I'm holding my breathe on the monstrosity!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
To celebrate their 25th Anniversary, CT Transit is featuring a specially decorated bus and will offer rides for just 25 cents (instead of $1). As of now, it's running on Hartford's "E" Farmington Avenue line. After running on several other Hartford division routes, it will travel to the other two CT Transit divisions in New Haven and Stamford. It will also be featured in 5 other transit regions which work with Ct Transit including New Britain's NBT and Dattco.
Hmmm, they didn't retain or won't bring out any old models ?
At Shoreline trolley museum we have an old look GM & a mini-fishbowl.
One of our members wants to get the GM, New Haven #1491 running again.
Mr t__:^)
One of our members wants to get the GM, New Haven #1491 running again.
Only one? You sure? :)
Hey Thurston, Count me in if I'm not needed on 6688 when I get up to Branford. Therefore, its at least TWO members.
Al, It's the same project leader. I'm told we already have a set of tires for it & it's not in too bad a shape. The only problem is it runs on diesel vs. electricty ;-)
Mr t
The only problem is it runs on diesel vs. electricty ;-)
And someone already said to me (probably facetioulsly) that he wanted me to work on 1491, erroneously thinking that I'm good at rebuilding internal combustion engines :)
[One of our members wants to get the GM, New Haven #1491 running again.]
I'm really trying to jog my memory a bit, as old looks were still running in Hartford when I moved there in 1969. I'm pretty sure #1491 was a Hartford bus, not New Haven. I suspect 1491 is a 40-foot model (510x) and I think all of those Connecticut Company buses ran in Hartford. New Haven had 35-foot old looks in the 1200 series.
Sid, You could be right. The only reason I said NH vs. Hartford is that the photo in our "Ride Down Memory Lane" bible shows her sighed for New Haven with a Seaboard Oil adv. on the front. I'll have to look her up on our Web site and see if there are more details there.
Mr t__:^)
It's a 1955 TDH5105. I vaguely recall seeing photos of it in service in New Haven, but don't quote me on that...
What bus number (and what type of bus) is it? It is extremely rare to find buses from one CT Transit division running in another, so it will be interesting to see one bus used in all 3 divisions.
As far as I can tell, it's one of their everyday buses all made up with a 25th Anniversary design or something. It started service with the "E" Farmington Avenue route in the Hartford Division. It's supposed to make runs on selected routes aroung Hartford, then run New Haven, Stamford, Meriden, Bristol, NEW BRITAIN (Where I am now) and two other cities. I don't know about any specific order, just that a ride on this bus will be 25 cents instead of $1. New Britain has NBT or New Britain Transportation. We're also home to Dattco, which offers tours and charter services. (Sorry, I'm just a frequent traveler. I don't really study any technical specs on the buses I ride.)
Passed by this bus right after the turn onto Battery Park Place. It's driver's mirror was hanging down, the mirror shattered, as well as the driver's window smashed, as if someone with a big had punched it. My guess, it hit the wall in the tunnel.
The mirror struck the mirror of another vehicle in the counterflow tunnel.
I've seen the rosters, but I am not sure how up to date some of the information is.
Are 3800-3899 Expresses in storage, except the few that have been scrapped as well as the some returned to service?
If anyone passes by any of the storage facilities where they are supposed to be (Edgewater, Carlton, Crosstown), let me know approximately how many are there.
Thanks!
Go to Transitalk.com for that info. Look in the roster section.
Ray
For those interested in antique buses: there's a 1940s-50s Mack, in school bus yellow, sitting in an empty lot at Merrick Blvd & 130 Ave. Someone apparently lives/lived in it, as there's an air conditioner poking out of the destination sign area, and the front door has been replaced with a conventional house front door. It's pretty far gone and the inside is piled high with junk, but there it sits. I'm going to try to get there with a camera soon.
I have a B/O who drives for a private company? He wants to know if he could use the Brooklyn Bridge instead of the Manhattan Bridge. I need to know later today. Thanks.
Ray
Commercial vehicles are not permitted on the Brooklyn Bridge. He could use the Williamsburgh, Brooklyn-bound only.
In a word NO. Not only is commercial traffic prohibited on the Brooklyn Bridge, but I believe there are weight and height restrictions as well.
Yup.
Weight: 3 tons.
Height: I'm not exactly sure, but I can guess that it's less than 11 feet.
11', 4 tons.
-Hank
ive seen the new NABI buses that Baltimore have in service, and im wondering why the new orange Balios signs are such a pain to see in broad daylight? does it have something to do with the LED lighting system? theyr good signs, but are a bit hard to see in the day.
because the sun black out the orange. like septa neoplan #7101
Thank you all for answering my question. Hopefully, he can make it to Atlantic City on time.
Ray
You should have asked me,,you know I work OEM FDNY
1. Can someone tell me how many more D60s were supposed to be coming? (I know they were to be assigned to MJQ and 126th)
2. Is it true that Amsterdam Depot is closing? Whereupon the Bx 6, 15, 19, 21, & 33 are to be moved to Coliseum when it reopens? (I've already heard that the M100 is going up to KB)
3. Have the other three Nova RTS hybrids made it here yet?
4. Which depots are slated to give up their RTSs with the new deliveries, and where are those ones supposed to go (or are hoped to go to?)
1) 140 buses go to 126th Street Depot, MJQ & Kingsbridge Depot.
2) Yes Amsterdam Depot is going to close but will become CMF Shop when Coliseum Depot open. I know M100 is heading to KB Depot, M104 might heading to Manhattanville & Bx6/15 might go to Coliseum Depot.
3) Nope they have not deliveries yet.
4) I have no idea which depot going to give up the RTS buses when the new deliveries buses.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/Operation Planning
1) 140 D60s {5510-5649} to come in 2002.
2) don't know-I don't focus on Manhattan depots too much just the routes
3) There are four more hybrids coming {6361-6364}. We've been left in the cold on these. All I ever hear about is 6361 being tested, and 6360 is going between running in revenue service and being checked on. Nothing new on this delivery for at least six months.
4) Just recently with the 190 C40LF delivery, JG gave up ALL of its 1987 RTSs. They were distributed among other Bklyn depots. From rumors, I hear UP in Bklyn wants to become an exp only depot so some of its RTS will go to other Bklyn depots as well. Now from what I hear, Flatbush is the next depot to get Artics after the Bronx and Upper Manhattan. They will probably give up the 15-20 RTS suburbans they have {I don't know why they have them} to UP or a Queens Depot that has exp service in exchange for a few Artics. So I expect the pattern to continue, a delivery is focused on one or two depots only and the older buses of the depots in question will be scattered among the other depots of the division. Someone want to confirm any of this???
1) 140 Option Bus Order from the last 260 which will be assigned between Quill and 126th Street. After this, there is a plan for 356 more articulated that are slated for a Queens and Brooklyn Depot. Q & B Location is Unknown as of right now.
2) Amsterdam is Closing. Bx6, Bx15 will go to Coliseum. Right now the Bx19, Bx21 and Bx33 are at Hale and will move to Coliseum also. The M100 will go to Kingsbridge and the M104 will go to Quill.
3) The last 4 NovaBUS RTS T80-206 Hybrids (#6361-6364) will follow sometime this fall/winter. There is talks supposidly for another 100 or so from Nova taking the numbers up as far as #6509.
4) The Fleet Plans are being layed out right now and as I get it, I will post it here!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
Thanks for the info.
Ditto for me!
Do you know what Buses are going to other Depots from AMS? And any Orions from AMS would come to QV maybe?
Yeah I Know!!!!
Regard,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
[Amsterdam is Closing. Bx6, Bx15 WILL go to Coliseum. Right now the Bx19, Bx21 and Bx33 are at Hale and WILL move to Coliseum also. The M100 WILL go to Kingsbridge and the M104 WILL go to Quill.... (Emphasis added)]
Um... I've said this before, lots of times, to the point of turning blue (of course, that's two-tone blue with a tinge of silver):
Decisions on route assignments are made by senior Transit management - NOT by unions, drivers, dispatchers, or bus fans - on the basis of depot capacities, peak directions, pull-out and pull-in locations, relief locations, and other factors.
Even though some Bus/SubTalkers have very close ties to Transit's circle of decision-makers, and thus access to inside info, it's still much too early to describe anything as set in stone. The Amsterdam-closing, Coliseum-opening route assignments are NOT final and can change at any time. Until those route assignments become official (i.e. the union agrees to pick them), any discussion should be framed in terms of opinion, educated guesswork, and/or "what-if".
-----
That said, the first thing I would do is give the new "Coliseum" depot a new name. While the old depot WAS a coliseum at one point, the new building is not and never will be. How about something geographic and Bronx-oriented, like "West Farms" or "Sheridan" or "Bronx River"?
-----
Second, I would reassign current Amsterdam and Hale routes as follows:
Bx6, Bx15, Bx19, Bx21 to "Coliseum"
Bx33 to stay at Hale (much closer to route than "Coliseum")
M104 to Manhattanville (near the "origin" end of the route)
M100 to Kingsbridge
-----
Third, I would reassign other depots' routes as follows (100th Street notwithstanding):
M2 to Hale (to make room at MV for M104)
M10 to Hale or MV (much closer to "origin" end of route than Quill)
M98 to Hale or MV (much closer to "origin" end of route than Quill)
-----
Fourth, I would assign the following to 100th Street, whenever it gets around to opening:
Definitely - M86, M96, M101, M102, M103, X90, X92
Maybe, if there's room - M30, M72, M98 (prefer MV or Hale)
-----
Again, these are my own (very humble) thoughts. Take them or leave them, as appropriate.
Most of the photos from the first batch from the SEPTA Roadeo are on a photo page. I post up a few more from the first batch by Tommorw. Here's a link to it.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/derekinn1996?d&.flabel=fld13&.src=bc
All photos are took by me. Enjoy :)
nice pictures.
Thanks.
when are you goning to add more pictures.
Any time soon. I just got more on Tuesday.
http://www.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/subtalk.cgi?read=232541
I am short on time, thus the lack of a link.
One of the folks in our Transportation dept. said that we park ahead of the Q46 at Union Turnpike & Utopia Parkway in the AM only until 9 AM.
Mr t__:^)
That's more than enough time and distance to prevent the previously dangerous practice of buses lined-up down Union blocking Utopia, as well as the QSC buses stopping out in the street blocking the Q46 in the stand.
I believe QSC has had 2 separate bus stops installed.
After 9AM, parking is permitted on Union Turnpike where QSC have their peak-direction stops.
In any event, as I've said before, "props" to QSC for getting the job done! There's still the bottlenecking at 168th Street, where QSC stops just past the corner, bogging down traffic. If we could get them to move up ahead 100 feet, and have the Q46 stop before the QSC buses, all would be right with the world...
All QSC stops should be ahead of the Q46 stops because the Q46 makes more frequent stops.
As an adise, the Queens General Manager, NYCTA, was at Kew Gardens this week during the AM rush to personally witness the left-lane service road parking issue as it relates to congestion where the bus schedules are concerned. As I understand it, our liason to the NYCDOT has been notified and "something" will be done... stay tuned.
Personally, I won't be anywhere near Union Turnpike or Utpoia Parkway for the summer, and I couldn't be happier!!! :-)
/me tosses his "Local" and "Express" signs in the trash!
Does anyone know where I can get information and pictures of the old fare boxes that were used in buses from the late 50's and early 60's? - Thanks.
I know the old ones from the 70's to early 90's can be bought at the the TA Gift shops at Grand Central and/or the Transit Museum
Do they have the Fareboxes that was use before the Metrocard Fareboxes?
"Do they have the Fareboxes that was use before the Metrocard Fareboxes?"
Don't really know for sure, they probably may have been sold to other bus operators that don't use the farecard system.
Call the museum, wouldn't hurt to ask. (718)243-8601. Ask for the gift shop manager.
Bill "Newkirk"
...or to other bus operators that do use a farecard system.
The fareboxes immediately preceding the ones in current use did have a card swiper. I guess it wasn't compatible with the MetroCard system as ultimately developed.
"The fareboxes immediately preceding the ones in current use did have a card swiper. I guess it wasn't compatible with the MetroCard system as ultimately developed."
David,
Did these fareboxes replace the new look style Johnson fareboxes ?
I also don't know if the Transit Museum still has these Johnson fareboxes for sale. BTW, isn't there a website for Johnson Fareboxes ?
Bill "Newkirk"
If memory serves, the last mechanical fareboxes NYCT used were made by Keene, which also made the vacuum system that removes the money from the boxes in the depots.
David
hey bill... i wasn't aware there was a johnson farebox website, but i just located in via google... it's interesting... i have an old manual coffee grinder d type that is one of my treasures...
www.johnsonfarebox.com/
heypaul,
I have one too I bought at the 6th Ave flea market for $150.
It's an old model D with what is an added on base with a 6 volt motor in it. There is no hand crank, just two pulleys mising the belt. Now with your help on this website, hopefully I can fully restore it and make it a show piece. Thanks heypaul.
Bill "Newkirk"
bill... can you tell if it works by turning the pulley on the box end?... i just love the sound of those boxes working... i grew up sitting behind the driver watching the numbers change...
heypaul,
It does work. I hooked up the motor leads to an auto battery charger and used several rubber bands to sub as a belt. Yes it clicks like crazy and when you drop the coins in the top they hit the bell.
Bill "Newkirk"
I only remember three types of farebox on NYCT(A) buses in my lifetime.
We all know the current model, which was installed systemwide in the mid-90's. (1996? 1997?)
The previous model was similar but much smaller. Instead of the MetroCard dip slot, it had a low-key swiper that was never put to use, at least by the general public. It was installed about 10-15 years ago. At the same time, the little boxes with the flashing lights were installed behind the driver's seat.
The model before that looks like the Keene fareboxes on the website but I don't know who actually manufactured them. I don't know if they counted total coin intake, but they certainly didn't count on a fare-by-fare basis. The driver was expected to glance in the window and determine if the proper fare was paid (yeah, right), and then push a lever to send the coins into the vault. I don't know when this model was installed; it was before I was born (1974) or when I was too young to notice (although, much to my parents' dismay, I noticed just about everything about buses at a very young age -- I even had a favorite seat on the double-deckers that ran on the M5 for a few years).
I got on Queens Surface bus 437 on the Q25 yesterday and noticed the engine felt much smoother. Then when I got off I saw the Deere sign on the side of the bus. I finally rode the Deere bus!
Yeah the engine seemed smoother and quicker than the Series 50. It reminded me of a much improved version of the Cummins engines we have in the LI Buses. Sounded like a 6 cylinder.
If 6 cylinder engines have more power than why is the 4 cylinder Series 50 engine so popular? To save fuel?
404 and 437 I call the quiet Cummins. They are very smooth riding-much better than the other 400s that they have. I believe all of the Orions at QSC have 6 cylinder engines in them and it's probably to save fuel.
Q66#404Gary
Q104#437Gary
No Garry only the two John Deer's have six, the rest are fours.
Mr t__:^)
Cause TAs have gone with Detroit Diesel in some form or another for a long time, and they have made usually durable engines. Plus, I have never heard that there were other engine makers. That could explain it.
Can anyone tell me what those little light are for in the upper corners on the Liberty Lines Beeline MCIs? Do they serve a purpose or are they just decoration.? If they do serve a purpose, what is it?
You know, I've been meaning to ask that question too, They Look like Freakin' Christmas Lights!
Regards,
T.Lo
www.transitalk.com
They were originally intended to be set up in color combinations to designate routes/destinations....just like NYCTA subway cars were until the Slant R-40's came along.
I don't know if Bee Line ever used the system, though.
I posted a message over on Subtalk about what's been going on with the Talks. Please check it out over there for the discussion...
-Dave
I must say I notice a speedy difference. Why would the subdomain prove faster when using the same cgi-bin? Don't know, but like the results. Great job :-)