Ok, this is nothing to cause a big controversey on bustalk, but I thought I would let everybody who is familiar with the Queens NYCT buses that the big butterfly rap on the back of 4130 was finally pulled off the other day. This just goes to show that there really is nothing else to talk about regarding NYCT right now.
BIG AL
I'm sure we'll have more to talk about as the soft seaters in QV & JAM find their way on to more local service...that or when the first one goes up in flames from a vandal.
About 6 months ago, give or take, some of us here on bustalk got off topic and was talking about planes for a short while, among them was myself. I had mentioned that a double decker plane was in the works that would seat over 500 people and that the top deck would extend the entire length of the fuselage unlike a 747 which only extends about the first 1/4 section. One or more persons, such as HANK EISENSTEIN, shot back that there was no such thing in the works and I had to be wrong. Unfortunately, I could not find the article that I saw that plane in to defend myself. Until now. In todays NEWSDAY, page A4, they have an artists computerized rendering picture of the Airbus A380. Note the full length upper and lower decks which can hold 550 people. This plane is supposed to be heading to JFK airport as one of it's first destinations. This gigantic behemoth of a plane could wind up putting the antiquated design of the 747 to pasture.
BIG AL
There is a detailed (and probably more accurate) article about the A380 (formerly A3XX) in the January 2001 issue of Airways magazine.
There's a feature article about the A380 in a recent issue of Popular Mechanics.
http://www.airbus.com/products/A380_family.asp
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
On May 1, 1984 - Express bus tokens introduced.
On May 1, 1990 - New pre-trip inspection procedures for bus operators are established to enhance safety system-wide.
Yep. All that information is included in the DOB Insider Guides. Get yours via 1-888-NYCTBUS
Reroutes
Q19B via 35 Av,73 st,37 Road ,,and terminate at 74st
Return via 37 Road,74 St
Q33 via 82 St,Roosevelt,75 St,Broadway ,and terminate
-Return via Broadway ,,and start nearside of 76 st.Revenue via Broadway ,Baxter Av,Roosevelt Av 83 St
Q45 via 69 St,Roosvelt Av,Broadway ,75 st to stand nearside of Roosvelt Av.Return via 75 St,Roosvelt Av and 69 st
Q47 via 31 Av,73 st,37 Road and terminate..Continue via 37 Raod,,and revenue from 37 road at 75 st,..Revenue via 75 st,Broadway ,74 st,31 Av
Q53 via Queens Blvd,Broadway ,STOPPING AT FARSIDE of 75 st,on Broadway..continue via Broadway
M32 via Roosevelt,,and STOPPING AT FARSIDE of 75 street
Why is the Victor Moore Terminal closing? IIRC there was something on this board awhile back about renovation and the reconstruction of the IND and #7 transfer. Am I correct ?
Although this is probably a question for Kevin Walsh, who was Victor Moore and why was the building named after him ?
This is a long term reconstruction process.
These routings are from official sources ONLY
Victor Moore was an actor in the 1920s to the 1950s.
Victor Moore (I)
The Victor Moore Arcade was acquired by Transit and will be demolished and rebuilt on-site as part of the rehabilitation of the 74th-Roosevelt station complex.
When completed, the New-and-Improved Victor Moore Arcade will include a street-level fare control area, ADA station access (which motivated the whole thing), adequately-sized bus bays, and retail space.
Would they fit the CNG's?
[Would they fit the CNG's?]
That would be reasonable.
Will the new facility carry the Victor Moore Name ?
BTW who was Victor Moore anyway ?
BTW who was Victor Moore anyway ?
I already said the answer more than 27 hours before you posted that!
Mr. Pig:
Are you sure that the terminal was named after the actor? If so, when was it done and why Victor Moore and not someone else ?
It has nothing to do with the fact that he was an actor. He and his family were very much into local real estate. I believe the building was one of his holdings.
M32 was renamed Q32 a long time ago. However, there is still a mural with a bus stop sign with "M32" on it at the Transit Museum.
I know,,,that was not the theme of my News Item
I also remember the old designations
What information is avaible on this flixible bus? is it ready to be bought? Is it ho scale and how much? Also, and word on 30-foot Flixible Metros to be made? HELP!!!!
The Flx New Look price will be determined when the first rolling one is finished; also, I have yet to do a Flx Metro 30-footer prototype but will advise on price for both as they progress and I receive demand for each.
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Was in Flushing around 5:30pm today there was a QS RTS bus on the Q66 at the first stop, but yellow police tape all around the sidewalk near the bus stop at the SE corner of Main & 39th.
There appeared to be people stuck on the bus. The engine was off and it looked hot in there, all windows were open. Police were on scene.
No way I'd be detained on a hot bus by police, I'd faint. Something must've happened on the bus or near it and they wanted to question everybody. I remember getting detained when I was in school when the bus was in an accident, that lasted THREE hours!
People had had to walk in the street around the bus, very dangerous. Easily could've caused yet another accident.
Was in Flushing around 5:30pm today there was a QS RTS bus on the Q66 at the first stop, but yellow police tape all around the sidewalk near the bus stop at the SE corner of Main & 39th.
There appeared to be people stuck on the bus. The engine was off and it looked hot in there, all windows were open. Police were on scene.
No way I'd be detained on a hot bus by police, I'd faint. Something must've happened on the bus or near it and they wanted to question everybody. I remember getting detained when I was in school when the bus was in an accident, that lasted THREE hours!
People had had to walk in the street around the bus, very dangerous. Easily could've caused yet another accident. Anybody know what happened?
HERE'S what happened.
Peace,
ANDEE
I came out of the subway and was walking north on the east side of Main Street. As I was about to cross 39th Avenue, I heard a loud yell and then a very loud bang. At first I thought it was some teenagers fooling around and hitting a parked vehicle with a blunt object- this is not out of the ordinary in downtown Flushing.
I turned around and saw a guy laying on the sidewalk in front of the Chase bank. My first thought was that he got hit crossing the street, but a Q66 was parked in the stop getting ready to begin its run to Woodside, making that scenario highly unlikely.
A group of bus dispatchers said the guy bounced off the roof of the bus, and sure enough there was a large dent on the front right side of RTS #308. The driver and passengers were all sitting in the bus, as if nothing had happened. All evidence pointed to a jump from the adjacent office building, but there appeared to be no broken glass or people standing by windows.
Immediately, a crowd formed around the body; people were gasping and chattering in various languages; cell phones were whipped out. One man, of apparently no official capacity, was imploring the crowd to move away. It wasn't until five minutes later that sirens were heard. There was a Q20A headed my way ready to board, so I grabbed it, figuring Main Street might be closed down any second.
All night there was nothing on the news. I walked by this morning to see no police tape or barriers or reporters; just a large dark grey stain that suggested someone had hosed down the sidewalk. As soon as I got on the subway, I opened NEWSDAY to see a small story somewhere in the teens. The fatality was a 31-year-old man with obviously severe
mental problems who believed the FBI was after him. He entered an office on pretense of being a repairman, took the screen off the window, and jumped. He was pronounced dead at the hospital several hours later.
Strange how the bus wasn't immediately evacuated. The poor drivers and passengers were probably traumatized enough, and then being confined like that. Must be standard procedure. One would guess 308 will be pulled from service for repair, and the driver would be entitled to leave. From what I understand, this happens when a bus hits a pedestrian. Is there anything to cover something like THIS?
Scary as hearing it and seeing the body was, I could have SEEN it happen- or be six feet behind where I was when it did.
Needless to say, I didn't sleep too well last night.
Typically the police will hold onto everyone to see who saw what. The bus is now out of service to protect the accident scene. Please don't ask me where it is or to confirm what number was involved.
Mr t__:^)
I wonder if the poeple ask the driver to score the dive. It sounds like I would have giving him a 6.5, because he only did a half flip after hitting the bus.
Robert
AAAAAHHHHHHH THUD!
I wonder if the cops ask the driver to score the dive. It sounds like I would have giving him a 6.5, because he only did a half flip after hitting the bus.
Robert
How could you guys joke about a mentally ill person getting killed in this fashion? The poor guy obviously thought he would be safer jumping out the window because he was scared about being chased. He belonged in an institution and needed help. You guys think this is funny? Putting a moonroof in the bus & scoring the dive. If this was somebody you knew, would you still want to score the dive? Anyone who thinks this is funny in my opinion needs even more help. There are plenty of times to joke, and I do it also, but this is not one of them. This is the exact kind of crap on bustalk that has many people who provide valuable information getting tired and tuning out of this website, including myself.
BIG AL
You know, Robert, being a T/O probably has had his share of 12-9s, or persons under his train. I had two myself and unfortunately am tainted for life because of it. I have to have a sense of humor to get by on the job, regardless of the target. We have ways of dealing with these types of problems. I do feel sorry for the bus driver, not for the witnesses. They choose to look at the aftermath, not I. I am forced to do so. I am required to look under the train by my superiors to tell them what is going on. To look for a pulse or signs of life is not what I took this job for. Maybe I need help as well. I am a 15 year employee, shop steward and am experienced enough to realize this shmuck chose his end. It didn't involve a stupid bus, not its unwilling bus operator. It isn't funny to hear of suicides. Al how would you deal with one if it happened to you? By response to Robert, as repeated to him. AAAAHHHH. SPLAT.
I know all two well that subways have 12-9. I have spooken to Dupty Dog on the "D". He had 5 so far during his years. The last one broke his wrist when the person hit the winshild, and fell under the train after the train slow down more. I have also seen people under buses, that is not as bad as a person under the train but it still bad. I even seen one just as bad with a New Flyer LF. The gey rolled under the bus becouse of the clearest it so low. The blood path was about a half a block long. So this just a way for me to put it aside and get on with my lift. I do it with think that happened to me over the years. Hell I even seen EMS lafing at a few bodys after they jump out windows from wer I use to live. So its just a way of letting out the street that come with some job.
Robert
Hey Thurston:
According to a report in today's Daily News, there is a dent in the roof of the bus. Any plans to put a moonroof in the RTS. I figure the rough cut for the hole is now in place.
Yes the bus has a serious dent, but it can't be seen from the inside.
Mr t__:^)
Betcha an Orion wouldn't have faired as well as a good old solid RTS.
Wow, I'm glad I didn't see that. I may have seen it if I changed for the 7 at 74th from the F, but I stayed on to catch the Q44 at Van Wyck.
I'm very suprised TV news didn't cover it. Lately TV news is crap.
They don't cover what affects us anymore. It's all a result of media de-reg (that's why radio sucks-Clear Channel).
Well at least no one else got hurt, but man that sure must've been traumatic as hell. I had no idea such a big thing happened, the people on the bus looked like nothing happened, as you said.
I have an emotional condition and there's NO way I'd be detained after such a traumatic incident. I guess the police would have to arrest me (what is this, USA or China?).
I'm sorry you had to be subjected to such a traumatic event. Flushing seems to be the place of alot of negative things lately. Things hopefully will turn around soon for that community.
Wow! Thank God I haven't been that way in a while Reason- My dispatcher friend at QSC worked that very post on 39 Ave and Main before the new pick went into effect. He's now on 3rd Ave in Manhattan. Lately I've been taking the Q46 to KG to catch an R46 E Train to 74 St to take the 7 home. I would have been there around 5 too if I had school and work yesterday. Had the day off. That would have been horrific for me to see if I was there to see it. I noticed that he fell onto a TMC RTS-308. I think if he fell on a CNG Orion, the fall would have been worse-possibly. But the situation is not better- a man died. I'll ask my friend on the Q66 when I see him to clarify what happened. He leaves Main at 600 Run 129. 308 I think had run 108 if I'm not mistaking bound for 21 St?! I'll have to reclarify the run and destination for sure.
Q66#308Gary
To all,
The American Pig and I were talking about reinsinuating live chats at subtalk live.com. BusTalkers are also welcome at these chats. They always have been and always will.
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The tag is IFRAME, not EMBED.
I can't use the IFRAME tag, which is why I used embed. It worked for me though, because I'm using an outdated browser that isn't capable of much more, and doesn't support anything higher than HTML 3.2 or 4.0 Transitional at best. No Flash, no shockwave, no .exe. no .pdf, no nuttin.... :(
To view, see eBay Item # 1140972804
Yesterday Afternoon.
I got on a Repowered Orion5 Suburban #118 on Q74. It sounds like a 1999 Orion5 and other Repowered Orion5's from 1993. This was my first time on a Repowered Orion5 Suburban. And is they any more Orion Suburbans out of CS is done Repowering besides #118 and #112?
Q74 Orion5 #118
I got a Question on the Ride On Orion6. Are the Ride On Orion6 are still running? If it is. What Route is it running? And one more question. Are they any orders on Orion6's from Ride On for This Year or Next Year?
Yes. They can run on the 43-91, 92, and morning 70 trips. These and the 97 CNGs often do not run outside rush hour.
I've ridden the Orion 06.501 CNGs at Ride On on Saturdays on more than several occassion. All times on the 59 or the 55 line! So the buses get use outside of Rush Runs!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
When I asked you a similar question, you said it was hard to find out of rush hour. You also said any route...
Yes its hard to find at Rush Hour because its used on all routes, HOWEVER, on saturday service you will mostly find it on the 55 or 59 route if it goes out! Which I've been luck to see it on a saturday 55 or 59 pick on several occasions!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
OK. Thanks for clearing this up.
Thanks.
I need to know if the Ride On Orion6's are still running. I now have anouther Question. Where is it Base out of?
My understanding is that all CNG buses at Ride-On are assigned to Gaithersburg.
Wayne
You can't refuel a CNG bus at Lytonsville (Silver Spring). They are all out of Gaithersburg. You can see them from the Shady Grove Metro (east side).
Thanks.
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I joined a few of the chats last year, but when you moved servers, I couldn't follow. Reason- I cannot use JAVA run clients, only IRC based chat interfaces. If you begin again, what server, port and room name will you utilize? I'd like to see if I can work an IRC compatible with my "browser" :-)
That isn't my department. I am conducting PR related things while American Pig is the technical person.
That isn't my department. I am conducting PR related things while American Pig is the technical person. Go to http://www.subtalklive.com to see if you can get in.
Connect to any DALnet server (irc.dal.net for a random one. The chat client connects to liberty.nj.us.dal.net). Channel #subtalklive.
I believe our firewalled IP's have been blocked from accessing DalNet, but I'll take a look now. For whatever reason, DalNet had a:
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There was a report on the many problems the new MCI's are facing.
First of all, NO ONE SHOULD STAND on an express bus. If I'm paying $3 than a better have a seat.
The lack of a rear door is also a problem, as well as the narrow isles. These buses are meant for long trips, not urban ones with frequent stops.
Personally I feel these buses should've only gone to S.I., as it is they are a monstrosity. The bus design is terrible for wheelchair pax.
Personally I like the design of the DOT express Orions the best. Comfortable seats but plenty of standing room. If people have to stand than they should've gone with new express Orions or RTS's.
That definately looked like a nightmere of a ride they showed. Queens riders don't complain about your buses!!
Then taken the darn Buses outta Brooklyn and give them to the SI riders that appreciate such a comfort. OR better yet, sell them shits to us at NJ Transit. Believe me, NJ Riders love some MCIs, and as a driver I LOVE THEM BUSES!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
20 minutes for a wheelchair cycle, MAN PLEASE!
I've done a cycle on a new D4000 Cruiser (SAME DAMN RICON WHEELCHAIR LIFT) and it took me just above 5 minutes.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
It can be done in five minutes if the driver is properly trained. Also I think after using the lift a few times, you get better at using it, and that time gets cut down. Many NYCT Express Bus Drivers just do not pick up wheelchairs very often and probably forget some steps.
Shaun
Saw the story myself and I agree that MCI should NOT be in Brooklyn. However more MCI are planned to be ordered and will probably go there meaning more Nova Suburbans will be hitting local service.
Following buses were seen: 1900 1873 2004 2715 just to name a few if you were curious.
BTW Meanwhile in Queens things have been interesting: 611 with scrathitti all over left rear window was on Q75 with 1767. 623 was on the Q46. 3807 Q79. Also notice that Suburbans are mostly on Q79. Why is that-cause of the shortness of the route? Not enough buses? 1767 is still chugging meanwhile check out who was scrapped:
3947 3955 3983 4010. My question is why the 1985s when they really have to scrap the rest of the 1700s cause they run slower and they're older? They could get more 9200s for local service to replace the remaining 1700s. Is 1852 still in QV? I know 1751 1767 and 1773 are.
1852 last I rode her was having major probs-speed wise and polluting-smoke in and out. Will be on lookout for more Suburbans on local lines tomorrow morning. Hope I'm feeling lucky!
BTW Saw 9361 broken down today on Q46 at 167 St and Union Tpke. Heard it was there for like 5 hours.
Q88#1773Gary
Q46#3807Gary
X17#1877Gary
Interesing is a bit understated to use as far as what's happening in Queens. There appears to be a severe shortage of usable equipment at QV & JAM, since you are seeing the soft seat coaches with regularity now. The Q75 and Q79 are shorter routes that don't handle a large amount of riders which explains why you'll see a soft seater there. What is odd is seeing the express coaches on routes like the Q2, Q17, Q30 and Q46. I should start a contest as to when a soft seater appears on the Q88.
The past few hot days have seen a fair number of breakdowns. The Orions at QV are causing their share of ire, as the incidents of those buses being pulled out of service increases. In the past week, I can safely say that I've seen 624 "hood up" several times. 630 is out again for who knows what reason. 611 has become the whipping boy of sorts, appearing on a number of local routes such as the Q46 and Q30; I doubt they even use 611 on the X68 anymore. 615 has a few cut up seats, one seat in the back of that bus is so badly cut up (the back part of the seat is really just a gaping hole now) that it is amazing the padding is still there. 625 has such a hard shifitng transmission that I'm sure it will be pulled shortly.
I am of the firm belief that the TA sent the ex-Staten Islanders to Queens for some proper maintenance before they will be sent back to SI for the new South Shore routes.
The part of the problem of the seats is just what you said. Using a suburban on local routes. Queens took SI locals and suburbans. 611-630 were from Castleton originally & used on X routes with occasional school runs. 631-680 were originally at Yukon.
Rarely did they have problems in SI.
The problem is NYCT's stupidity. One reason is that they closed 2 depots (Walnut & 100th) and only opened 1 = less bus storage. Also, their RETIREMENT plan. They took busses out too early too soon for no apparent reason. With ridership up, they should wait until they have replaced a set of busses before removing them. Plus other busses that are to be scrapped really shouldn't be right now. Take 4898,4899 - 1987 TMCs - 14 yrs old. Their engine was shot so they were retired and scrapped. They should have repowered them. I think they should start with the 87 TMCs to repower besides the 90-91s.
Today I went to Flushing and saw three NYCT buses with all windows open (no A/C). Two of them were Orions. Then I saw what looked like an RTS express bus (9100 something I think) with no A/C on the Q17.
Also saw a few Orions with their hood up. Amazingly saw quite a few QSC buses with no A/C as well. Only saw one diesel Orion on LIB with no A/C.
One thing that this kind of weather brings is breakdowns due to overheats. I wonder which engines fare better in this hot weather,
6V-92TA or Series 50?
Get used to seeing the 9200 & 9300 buses on the local lines. It's not a shortage problem at this point. If there was a shortage, then NYCTA would do engine replacements on the later 4000s. While I can't speak for QV, Jamaica has all the buses it currently needs right now, and can't house anymore even if we needed them. To keep a long story short, the 9200 & 9300 express Novas are not all needed for the express runs anymore. All express runs in the city now, with the exception of Quill depot, which doesn't really have true express runs anyway, are covered by Novas, Orions, & MCI's. These Nova coach buses, along with the Orions you guys see running on the Q17, Q42, Q46 and whatever else are now excess and are no longer needed for the express lines, unless there is a shortage due to accidents and breakdowns. As more and more MCI's come into the system, expect to see even more Nova & Orion coaches running on the local lines, including the Q88.
BIG AL
very few problems with mci on staten island. send ulmer park mci here and transit can send orions 120-172 to ulmer park and everybody will be happy. we love our new 2100s.
Has the a/c been reliable on the MCI equipment? The MCIs should have been ordered with openable windows so the passenger don't roast in the event of an a/c failure.
Or better yet, they should have come with Sutraks.
You're a driver are you? Tell me, have you driven everything NJT has to offer yet? And if so, what is the best?
I've driven mostly everything in the NJT fleet except a 3 door Volvo which is really nothing because its like the 2 two volvos at my homebase. My favorites are the Flxibles, the MCI MC-9Bs and the MCI D4000 Cruisers.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
First - I agree with you concerning the standees. These busses are not meant for standees since the aisle is too narrow. I rode an X1 once around 10PM back to SI and the driver kept packing them in. When it came time for people to get off, all the standees had to disembark and then reboard. Too much time consuming. The drivers shouldn't be afraid to put on the sign NEXT BUS PLEASE. Another solution is to expand the runs later and more frequently. The X1,10,17 should run at least every 15-20 minutes until say 11PM. The other ones should run until 9PM, not until early 7 or 8PM.
Second - The lack of a back door is not a problem IF there are no standees. The DOTs haven't had much problems I've seen with the Fishbowls (NYBS) and MCI/GM Classics.
Third - Yes the MCIs should be on SI. Those express runs do cover long highway stretches and that is a good use of the bus. Also, in other boroughs, it may be harder for turning.
Fourth - The RTSs and Orions do offer more standing room but do not sit as much. I was on Orion 119 the other day and counted approximately 31 seats. The MCI seats 57. Do you want to stand or would you like to sit?
Fifth - I havent seen how the Wheelchair lift works yet. If Trevor can do it in 5 Minutes Max., then it can't be bad. However, I have RARELY seen the wheelchair lifts used on SI Expresses ever. I think they have it just for ADA compliance. The DOTs do not have them.
Sixth - I can't wait to see the "VIKINGS" in service. They are exactly like the MCIs on the inside. (My opinion from seeing the pics on Trevor's site)
Some of you may have wondered why nycDOT didn't rush out & buy the same new express bus that the TA was, i.e. the MCI Cruiser.
The problem is there just isn't a lot of choices out there (when you factor in purchase cost & durability that they'll need on NYC streets). Passengers don't like the Orions on Express routes ... they want their private seat (they DON'T want to stand), reading light, etc. You would think they were paying $20 instead of only $3 for the ride. Anyhow, nycDOT, NY Bus, is trying some of them.
Disclaimer: I don't work for the MTA, TA or nycDOT and am not in our Transportation department, so just some personal comments here.
Mr t__:^)
Another reason why it's time for the private companies to GO BYE-BYE!
No you have the point all wrong. The nycDOT privates didn't buy the same MCI Cruiser as the TA because the private operators expressed dissatification with soem of it's features, e.g. narrow asile, etc.
nycDOT has been looking at alternatives. Buying a coach with a plus reclining seat, reading light & luggage rack aren't the most important features.
Mr t__:^)
Seating capacity is the most important feature, and the DOT has FAILED in that respect.
Well, again SEATING is the most important feature.
I think the Orion Soft Seat, e.g. 500s at QSC are a good choice, from a business standpoint, but not the customers favorite.
The Express service looses more money then the local ... some of the local routes actually almost pay their way. So why shouldn't the operator have a bus that it can primarily use on Express service but has the flexibality to operate just fine in local service ?
The MCI Cruiser can't do this at all, and what does the customer expect for $3.00 ? If they were paying a rate comparable with LIRR, NJ Transit or one of the non TA/DOT bus companys, then they could expect "Coach Service".
Disclaimer: I don't work for the MTA, TA or nycDOT, so I'm just making a personal comment here and kind of dought that the TA or nycDOT would make such comments, but it's something to think about in any case. After all who's paying for the extra cost of these MCI Cruisers ?
Trivia question: Who offered the first Express bus service in NYC ... hint it was NOT the TA. They were 3rd to do it.
Mr t__:^)
Are we talking inter or intraboro express service.If its intra it would be CTC with the Q53.If its inter its GBL with the QM23.Ironically both were created to make up for the loss of the LIRR Rockaway Bch.Branch.
That's who I was talking about. Queens Surface was next, and the TA followed.
Mr t__:^)
It is rather unfortunate that the MCI's are getting this sorta bad rap. They actually suit express bus service quite well, *but* that doesn't necessarily mean they can handle standee loads. With the seating arrangement not having hand holds a'la NJT's MCI's, you are putting passengers in a precarious situation if they have to stand. Additionally, there isn't a place to hold onto in the luggage rack area. I believe there is a rule that doesn't permit standees on the NYCT MCI's.
The lack of a rear door isn't usually a problem when standees aren't present. It is true though that with standees present, it does take a bit longer to unload passengers. Usually the 8PM run of the QM1 is an older MCI Classic. This coach has one door only and it's 53 seats are filled with quite a number of standees. Once getting into Queens, a game of musical bus passengers ususally ensues. The difference here is that patrons usually make accomodations for that when they see the bus is SRO.
As far as the DOT Orions go, the seats may **look** comfortable, but they are anything but that. They don't have the width to accomodate two adults properly. Unfortuantely NYCDOT didn't see to purchasing the same seating that is present on the NYCTA Express Orions. Personally, I think DOT was trying to say that their buses can hold 43 persons seated, thus being able to say "we have capacity". What happens more often than not, is that a few seats will go unfilled and people *would rather stand*. The NYCTA arrangement gives enough seats for 41-42 persons. I would go as far to say that the local DOT Orions provide a more comfortable seat, even though the seats are the cloth covered fiberglass seats commonly ofund on local buses.
Personally I like the design of the DOT express Orions the best.
You have GOT to be kidding. I'd like to smoke some of that magic weed you've been inhaling.
Those things are horrid crap. While the MTA took to improving upon the old model used by the privates (the MCI Classic, great bus, too bad about the lack of accessiblity), the privates decide to take the old MTA model and WORSIFY IT.
If the MTA was a Four Star General in the Army, the privates would be, well, privates. Not just Privates, but Private third-class, DISHONORABLY discharged, court-martialed and executed. The MTA on the other hand (compared to the DOT private parts, not necessarily compared to other agencies) would win the Congressional Medal of Honor.
DOWN WITH THE DAMN DOT PRIVATES!
Hell, I hate my local B100 worse than I hate Cable TV, Afghanistan, Communism and the US Measurement system.
OK, maybe I hate nothing more than the US Measurement system (except Nazis).
As for channel 5, it's owned by the same person that owns the New York Post. 'nuff said.
The DOT privates don't seem to believe in air conditioning.
As much as I hate the B100, I don't have any qualms about its air conditioning.
But in the morning when its hot I ride the B41 instead, so I can't say.
Saw several Cummins powered Orion CNG's had all their windows open here in Nassau, 209 and 280 just to name a few.
Fortunately all the buses I rode were cool. The diesel Orions are the coolest I think, the 6V-92 sounds great and is pretty fast.
The Cummins weren't that cool though, the A/C is kinda weak plus it's an oven in the back (from the engine) plus it's real slow. The new 300s don't struggle at all with A/C.
I'm sure if LIB had the money they'd replace those ailing Cummins with DD Series 50(G).
Hmmm, sounds like a friggin' maintenance issue. All of the Orions at LI Bus sport the same HVAC Unit, the Thermo King T-2 unit!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
CUMMINS BUSES ARE NOT BAD!!!!!!!!! IN HOUSTON, THE CUMMINS ISB AND ISC ENGINES ARE THE FASTEST AND HAVE THE COLDEST A/C!!!!!!!!! THESE THINGS CAN ACCELERATE AS FAST AS A FRIGGIN CAR!!!!!!!!!!!! ORIONS AND CUMMINS DON'T MIX!!!!!!! HELL, ORION CAN'T REALLY BUILD A GOOD BUS ANYMORE. BUT CUMMINS ENGINES ARE NOT CRAP!!!!!!!!
in septa the cummins engine the eldorado on there bus are nice a cool.
Well maybe their diesel engines are OK but the Cummins CNG's suck.
I would have to agree about the Cummins in the Novas,NJTransit doesn't have problems with theirs and 9140-9149 at FP alwys run good when I ride them.
I agree; I like the 6v92TA best of all of the above.
-F.
Yeah the 6V-92TA is a great sounding engine. And fast too. Had a 600 diesel Orion tonight on the N21 and we flew. It was cold in there too!
If LI Bus is strapped for money let 'em screw the CNG on the Cummins units and just put rebuilt 6V-92TA in there. Fine by me!
I been on #600 before. I got it on N24 doing last summer. The AC is good on the OLDER Orion5's. Now just only could rebulit the Flxible MetroA's and Flxible 870's so like that LI Bus would have alot of buses for Service on N20/N21 Serivce.
N24 Orion5 #600
N24 Flxible 870#988
Any new info available on which direction NYCT may finally go after the Orion VII disaster? NFI Invero? NABI?
Also, how is the new NovaBUS RTS-LF prototype progressing?
Well at this point you can forget the Orion 07.501 CNG and Hybrids gracing the streets of NYC. After falling apart like it did, I think the TA is starting to put its foot down on cheaply made equipment. As of right now, on alternative has been picked. But my view is the most like candidate is a another New Flyer C40LF order and maybe a trial of the New Flyer DE40LF (Hybrid), but that is just my own observation about the New Flyer stuff.
Last I heard, the RTS LF is built but hasn't gone through the proper testing yet, LET'S HOPE IS DOESN'T FALL APART LIKE ITS COMPETITOR, THE ORION VII.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
This morning, the Queens GM says NYCT has ordered 60 Hybrids for QV. When I questioned him about the testing and workmanship, he replied that they have come to an agreement (whatever that means) and that Queens Village depot will have Hybrids by 2002.
Your thoughts?
Like I said in the "Hybrid Eletric" post, the TA has backed out of the Orion VII deal! So if they go Orion, its gonna be the V or the VI.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Actually, the Orion VI is a great bus; all that needs to be addressed is the seating capacity issue.
This could easily be done by extending the body/chassis length by two-five feet.
I wouldn't mind seeing the NFI Invero in NYCT colors gracing these streets. And the NABI low-floor could grow on me as well.
And then again, bring on the RTS-LF!
I caught just a part of this segment on the morning news:
A gunman in Los Angeles hijacked a bus and forced the B/O to speed through busy downtown streets. (Sounds like a movie, no?) The bus rammed a UPS truck and an SUV (whose driver was killed) before coming to a stop; the gunman then tried to flee on foot but was caught anyway.
That bus operator will probably need LOTS of counseling after the trauma of being hijacked AND being forced to kill an innocent third party. (Of course, if that were here, Transit's first order of business would be a drug test.)
Yes, CNN showed like the last couple of seconds (filmed from a helicopter). The bus was moving very fast on a surface as hit the SUV, then the UPS truck and stopped on the sidewalk.
Wayne
>>> That bus operator will probably need LOTS of counseling after the trauma of being hijacked AND being forced to kill an innocent third party. <<<
The B/O. A 48 year old woman was one of the injured taken from the scene in an ambulance. TV news indicated she suffered a broken nose, and was pictured with bandaged head and neck brace on a gurney. The force of the crash into the SUV and UPS truck was awesome. It makes it clear what a responsibility a B/O has in maneuvering so much mass on the streets.
Tom
At about 1:30am this morning I saw 5 New Flyer haeding to the Bronxs over the Tri-Bro. Bridge. Dose anyone know were they were going.
Robert
Likely senario is that these buse were headed to Detroit Diesel in Lodi, Yes at 1am. It Happens!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
New bus schedules, effective April 2001 or later, are appearing on the buses now. I have seen Q27, Q77, and Q15. A glaring error is found on the new Q32 schedule for those SubTalkers here (You need Adobe Acrobat Reader). Look in the Queens Plaza area. You have Queensboro Plaza (R)(7) and Queens Plaza (E)(F)(G)(N)!
I'm not sure that whoever made this map realizes that the (N) and (R) switched terminals back in the 1980's! The Roosevelt Avenue/74 St/Bway station correctly gives the lines as (E)(F)(G)(R)(7).
JTLYK, the M60 schedule doesn't have (R) at 31st Street.,
The following routes have the new schedule online:
B1, B4, B6, B8, B11, B12, B15, B20, B24, B25, B26, B36, B38, B39, B41, B43, B44, B46, B51, B52, B61, B63, B67, B69, B70, B71, B75, B78, B82
BX1/BX2, BX3, BX4, BX5, BX7, BX8, BX9, BX10, BX11, BX12, BX13, BX14, BX16, BX17, BX18, BX21, BX22, BX25/BX26, BX27, BX28, BX29, BX30, BX31, BX33, BX34, BX35, BX36, BX39
M4, M6, M7, M9, M11, M14, M16/M34, M21, M22, M23, M42, M57, M60, M66, M72, M86, M101, M104
Q4, Q5, Q13, Q14, Q15, Q20/Q44, Q26, Q27, Q32, Q58, Q59, Q77, Q83, Q84, Q85, Q88
S46/S96
X1/X2/X3/X4/X5/X6/X7/X8/X9, X10/X11, X12, X13, X14, X15, X16, X17/X19, X18, X20, X31, X63, X68
If a route is not listed, it is not available online.
I'm not sure that whoever made this map realizes that the (N) and (R) switched terminals back in the 1980's! The Roosevelt Avenue/74 St/Bway station correctly gives the lines as (E)(F)(G)(R)(7).
And there was no Q32 back then! It was called the M32 (but you know that).
Checked out the scrap line today and saw #3915, #3947, #4010 and #4341 all stripped of anything of value, probably awaiting a tow.
#1757 is a bad order bus which is currently receiving an AC overhaul. There were at least 8 maintenence employees working on this bus as I left.
I know 4321 is dead 4339 also. You sure it was 4341? And 1751 is receiving the a/c overhaul- 1757 left QV Months ago. I think you said 3947 3955 3983 and 4010 are about to be scrapped. Saw 1773 Q75 today 5pm?! Couldn't tell it was from a distance. 626 Q46 this morning run 035. Had 9262 on Q17 today. 9280 was not far behind my bus.
Q17#9262Gary
Traingirl
I'm sure it was #4341. Go see for yourself. The buses are sitting along the rear maintenence area. Don't remember about those other buses, but whatever I posted above is correct.. for now LOL!
Spoke to the Queens Division General Manager this morning discussing new bus orders. I was told that QV is to receive 60 Hybrids by 2002, the latest. As I understand it, they have passed testing and the order is being worked on as we speak.
It just won't be Orion 7s (aka THE SHAKER BUS) LOL! At this rate we're probably looking at the New Flyer DE40LF or HF (depending on how the TA wants to go), More Orion 6 HEVs, the NovaBUS RTS-06 HEV (probably not), or the NovaBUS LF RTS Hybrid (Whenever the hell that thing get unveiled).
I'm hoping for either New Flye DE40s or More Orion VI HEVs.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I would love to see NYCT-MTA to buy New Flyer DE40LF or Hybrid Buses in the future.
Peace
David Justiniano
MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation
Take the SubTalk Live Survey. Poll closes at 9 PM tonite. BusTalkers welcome, too.
Starting next Monday, SEPTA will be holding public hearings on it's operating budget. Virtually hidden beneath the budget is a fare increase. I have posted the fare increase proposal at my web site (I've programmed the link to open a new browser).
If you travel in Philadelphia, you may want to start buying as many tokens as you possibly can.
Today.
I saw #115 on I-678 passing by the 20 Ave Exit. I notice that the Head sign say this.
"Q15 Flushing Main St sta".
Maybe this was comming from CS and going to do the Q15. I think the bus must have gone off at the 3 Ave Exit Before the Whitestone Bridge. Or the bus must me going up to the Bronx to do the Q44 LTD and maybe forgot to change the headsign. I must add Q15 to the list of Orion Suburbans on CS Local Routes. That is. Q32,Q74,and now the Q15.
Q15 Orion5 #115
[I saw #115 on I-678 passing by the 20th Avenue exit.... "Q15 Flushing Main St Sta."]
If the bus was heading northbound (pulling out to Whitestone),it would have used the 14th Avenue exit and then local streets (basically the Q15 "live" routing): Whitestone Expressway, 14th Avenue exit into service road, right 14th Avenue, right Cross Island Parkway south service road, U-turn at Francis Lewis Blvd into Cross Island Parkway north service road, right 154th Street, right 10th Avenue, left 162nd Street, right 9th Avenue, left 166th Street, to Powells Cove Blvd.
There is no Exit to 14 Ave. To Exit for 14 Ave. You have to Exit at 20 Ave.
Exit at 3 Ave. Make a Right onto 3 Ave,Right onto 150 St,Left onto 10 Ave,Right onto 154 St,Left onto 10 Ave,Left onto 162 St,Right onto 9 Ave,And Left onto 166 St.
Also add the Q12 to your list. I saw one on that line one morning when I was at Main Street, Flushing. I dunno, must have run out of buses.
Q26, too; 111 was on it, either Monday or Tuesday evening. For those of you keeping score, 104 & 108 were running on the Q15 about the same time.
Add X51 to that list too. Saw her on 34 St today-scratchitti on rear left window. That's what you get for placing that bus locally.
X51#115Gary
I saw 117 on the Q48 while working at Shea. Then I saw her on the rest of the Express Orions lined up against the fence to the Corona storage tracks.
Q48#117Mike
Here's the list of CS Local routes witch runs the Orion Suburbans.
Q74,Q32,Q15,Q12,Q26,Q76,and Q48.
Also one time I saw A Orion Suburban #102 on Q44 LTD at Main St. It's RARE to see a Orion Suburban running on Q44 nowadays.
Q44 Orion5 #102
Q15 Orion5 #115
Q74 Orion5 #118
Q32 Orion5 #112
Q12 Orion5 #138
Q26 Orion5 #101
Q48 Orion5 #105
Q76 Orion5 #112
You usually have the suburbans on the Q14 and Q28 alot as well
OK. I live near by the Q74. And Thats where I see alot of Orion Suburbans on Q74. At KG I see them the most.
Q74 Orion5 #105
I got a Question.
When more SEPTA New Flyer D40LF's will come in and where are they going?
And also what routes do Red Arrow runs and what buses run with Red Arrow?
the d40lf are coming in early this summer.i think the
depots that will get it is southern,callihall,comly,victory(red
arrow),
midivale,and frankford.
the route they possible run on is the 123,104,109,105(maybe),108,and
the 113.
my web for more information
I highly doubt that they will see regular service on the 105, however, I truly think they'll run them on the 110.
The D40LFs will initially operate out of Southern, Callowhill, and Red Arrow. Comly, Frankford, and Midvale will probably get their low floors in the second batch due to arrive in 2002.
Suffice to say it's going to make for some interesting bus movements at SEPTA over the next year.
Tonite at 10PM on WB11 will be an investigative report on the cleanliness of NJ Transit buses. Different sample types from inside a bus were taken back to a lab to evaluate what might make a passenger sick. Also this past week, samples were taken from an Amtrak train, an airliner (forgot which airline) and from a Dollar Rental car. It was amazing what was found.
Not suprising really. Most people don't wash their hands and then you know what happens next. Best thing while riding a bus (or any transit vehicle) is to avoid any direct or indirect contact between the seats/poles and the face.
The poll is closed and the following has been decided on.
Chats will start at 7:30 PM (ET) on Saturdays and will be held weekly. The weekly chats will start on a date to be announced
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Stay tuned for an announcement about the commencement of chats. This will be posted on SubTalk and BusTalk.
Wednesday at approximately 6:20 PM, Merrimack Valley (MA) Regional Transit Authority (MVRTA) bus 9906, a 1999 Gillig Phantom 35 footer operating the 5:50 PM Route 41 Lawrence to Lowell route was struck head on by a car in Dracut MA. The car crossed the yellow lines into the lane of the bus on a curve on State Rte. 110. There were 9 passengers on the bus and 2 people in the car. The passenger in the car died early Thursday morning from his injuries, the car's driver is in critical condition. The bus driver and one bus passenger were treated and released from the hospital.
The bus sustained extensive damage, the left front end pushed back into and flattening the left front tire, and part of the front bumper on the ground. Curious to see if this bus will able to be repaired.
Mark Watson
My wife and I stayed in Andover MA, for a week around last Labor Day Weekend. One day we took the Commuter Rail from Andover into Boston. On the return I missed a cut-off and ended up in Lawrence Ma.
Due to wrong directions given me by a cashier in a drug store, I ended up on Rte 110 and ended up in Lowell. I remember the road as being one lane in each direction, windy and hilly. I can easily see that if you're going too fast around a curve to lose control and cross over the line.
That's exactly the reason I would always take Route 113 instead of 110 whenever I'd have to go between Lowell and Methuen/Lawrence. At least 113 is two lanes in each direction and it's a much more scenic route that 110.
For those of you who use this dreaded "WebTV" browser, you can participate in the SubTalkLive chats via The WebTV SubTalkLive IRC
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See you then, and thanks for the info.
You can connect via WebTV in the following manner:
Go to your WebTV Home page, click Community, click Chat, then click Goto on the sidebar to the left. Now enter irc.dal.net in the top blank box, and the channel name (#subtalklive) in the third box; then hit the button at the bottom.
since youve all been complainoing about the lack of bus moves in the past few months i have some news for you. yesterday roadtrk that is the 8-4 road truck mechanic at yukon and yes he is online told me 8 orion coaches were moved from storage at edgewater for service at ulmer park and gleason. perhaps nyct is responding to the news story and will put orions on x27 and x28. if so the balance of the mci order may get sent to yukon or castleton. anyone at ulmer park have any knowledge?
O M G, I SAW THIS THING, ITS A MONSTER! BE GLAD THE TA CANCELLED THIS CRAP! I'M THROWING UP STILL FROM SEEING IT! LIKE BECKY, O M G!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Let me guess... Trevor doesn't like the Orion VII, huh? (lol)
Let me guess... Trevor doesn't like the Orion VII, huh? (lol)
Ya think? LOL
Click The Link!
LOOK AT THIS S#!T, LOOK AT THIS S#!T, THEY PLAY TOO MUCH
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Does New Flyer know that Orion is producing the C40LF also? (Yes that was supposed to be a sarcastic answer)
I bet Orion copied everything from the C40LF right down to the interior layout. Save for a few Orion-esque treatments on the front, you'd swear that the 7 could be a New Flyer product.
So, what would an "Orion Viking" look like? :-)
LOL!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Quit playin' . . . I know you didn't . . . I know that's not the new Orion VII . . .
>>So, what would an "Orion Viking" look like?
Most likely an Orion Viking would look like an RTS (Just Kidding).
Ugh!!
If I were New Flyer I'd sue.
I'm sure they may do that; let's tell them about it today! LOL
-F.
You're kidding right? You're telling me THAT is the coveted Orion VII?! Not only did they steal the design of NFIs flagship LF design, they gave it a bad rep by having their cheesy rip off fall apart on the shaker table! Not only that, it looks kind of beaten up.
Okay, as you may know, I had thought that the NFI low floor design was extremely ugly. Now, Orion had made a replica, only uglier! Now, is that what Orion is coming to? And I thought the Orion VI was bad. I had these visions of what the Orion X might look like, but seeing how the designs are going, it's nothing like that.
I agree; the New Flyer LF is hideous and looks like something I ate and dropped. And the same goes for its Orion VII twin!
When I drove for Blacksburg Transit (VA), I was appalled to learn that their current flagship fleet (ugh!) of 1998 New Flyer LFs was supposed to be a fleet of Flx Metros in 1996. However, Flxible closed shop earlier that year, and BT was next in line for their order. Oh, if only they had stayed open for another week or so....
Needless to say, my favorites there are the 1986-87 Flx Metro "B"s. While everyone there likes the ugly New Flyers the best, they regard the 15-year-old Flxes as the "dogs" of the fleet. However, I think they are a LOT better looking than their newer garage mates.
-F.
Sorry, but I must disagree with you on that one. Flxibles and NFI LF buses are on par with each other as far as looks go. While I think Flxibles make great secondary buses when paired with an existing RTS fleet, D40LFs can be the primary bus type in a fleet and have secondary buses like Neoplans and third rate buses like NABIs back them up.
Also, NFI D40LFs are 3x faster than Flxibles and 5x as reliable as a Grumman 870, about 2 and 1/2x as reliable as a Flxible Metro. They're quite solid buses with good ergonomics and technological features. They don't rattle like a Flxible and they don't have that fall apart feel or look. They always look ready to roll and confident, while most Flxibles sport that trademark miserable look and ghetto demeanor.
Don't get me wrong, I like Flxibles, and I hated when the first 30 D40LFs replaced the last of the Grumman buses, but, the D40LF is a marked improvement over those buses and have held up quite nicely.
I disagree on the rattling part; the Flx Metros of Blacksburg run smoothly, while the NFI LFs rattle and vibrate. This is of course because the Flxes run 6v71s, while the NFs are Series 50. On the bright side, the Series 50 vibration throught the seats does put one soundly to sleep. :)
-F.
No, I mean the frame rattle when it goes over bumps. I've never ridden a Flxible that didn't have that lean and the loud rattle. Especially Grummans. RTS rattle alot too, but not as much as a Flxible.
The older D40LFs here vibrate alot and make alot of air noises. The newer D40LFs are pretty smooth and quiet though.
Yeah...build quality improves over time. For instance, Grummans have more rattle than Flx Metros, newer D40LFs have less than the early ones, 1999 Gilligs have less than 1994s...and so on. Just one of those things!
-F.
P.S.: FRAME rattle? I thought that was just panels!
Okay, as you may know, I had thought that the NFI low floor design was extremely ugly. Now, Orion had made a replica, only uglier! Now, is that what Orion is coming to? And I thought the Orion VI was bad. I had these visions of what the Orion X might look like, but seeing how the designs are going, it's nothing like that. BTW, I though it was just hilarious how similiar (they even have that panel piece like on the New Flyers) this bus is the the Low Floors.
Are you sure that's not a New Flyer in a halloween costume (although it's really the wrong season for halloween)?
Nope that pic is straight from Orion!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
You mean Orion even has the link listed as "LOOK AT THIS S#!T"? Wow...THEY must think it's hideous too!
-Fred
It looks fine to me. I like the most is the Paint Job on that bus. And I nickname that bus "C40LF Lookalike". And just looking at that bus made me LOL at it!!!
I know, I had the same reaction. However, I really think it should look more like the 5 or something.
Actually, I agree; the paint scheme does help the styling a bit. Blacksburg Transit has theirs in a similar scheme; the black around the windows is what does it. Believe me, those look REALLY hideous in all white....UGH!
-F.
You right about what you just say. And what is Blacksburg Transit? I would like to know about that Transit Complany.
Blacksburg Transit is the TA for Blacksburg, VA, home of Virginia Tech and the Hokies football team. It was founded in 1983 with only 6 Bluebird 30-footers and eventually expanded service and now runs a mix of 35-and 40-foot Flx Metros, RTSes, and New Flyer LFs. Service is every 15 minutes during the semester, sometimes every 7. The fare is only 50 cents each way, with free service for students with Tech IDs and on the special housing route.
The administrative board is a full-time staff, while the drivers are mostly part-time students. Everyone there is very friendly and courteous, and if you are a transit fan, some will talk buses with you as you ride. For more information, check out their website at:
www.btransit.org
Hope that helps; check out the site...it's really neat!
-F.
Thanks.
BTW. Do you know anybody that works there?
I know TONS of people who work there! We talk of buses all the time when I ride with them on their routes and they are very cool people. In fact, we may have some BT drivers join us as volunteers at our museum as they are interested in buses.
They are just as enthusiastic to our transit efforts here in Roanoke as we are to their great system in Blacksburg; also, over the years, each of our TAs has helped one another out with operations and other areas. As far as buses go, you could say that we are sister cities in a big way!
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Visit us at www.articboy/com/buses/savebus.html
I See. So I wounder if One of them would Merge one day with Valley Metro?
We were thinking the same thing here in Roanoke; since we are only 40 minutes away, it would be neat if the two TAs came together to have a shuttle between the two areas...perhaps suburbans or OTR buses could be used. One small run down I-81, one giant leap for transit in Southwest Virginia.
Roanoke is a major business district, with older, established people, and Blacksburg, or course, with Virginia Tech, is the major college town in the area with a four-year university, so it would bridge a generation gap to have such a service. If only something like that would come through one day....
-F.
That would be Great to see them do that. Now the only Problem is. What Transit name should we give them if Broth Transit Complanys Merge into one?
Well, currently the Blacksburg to Christiansburg route (neighboring towns in the New River Valley metro area) is called the Two Town Trolley; perhaps the moniker could be applied to the Roanoke to Blacksburg shuttle and the other could be renamed the Christiansburg Express. After all, the longer trek from the Roanoke Valley to the NRV down I-81 would be more suited for the Two Town name. :)
-F.
Trevor, you're right on the money; the Orion VII IS a carbon copy of the New Flyer LF. The only difference I see is the front turn signal location!
-Fred
Oh, there's more than that. The front has the Orion windshields and the top destination sign area is like the VI. I'd like to see the back, though.
Since it looks like Orion has lost all possible originality for bus design, they may as well create a new Flxible Metro, too.
That would be a godsend; I'd LOVE to see Orion make a new Flxible Metro! Just think of the possibilites.
Perhaps they could attract NYCTA's attention once again; and need I say anything about WMATA? Oh yes, and NJT. And lest we not forget all the cities who switched to Gilligs after Flxible closed up shop; these once Orion-leary TAs would once again find joy in a new fleet of Flxes.
So let's all hound OBI today; PLEASE REINTRODUCE THE FLXIBLE METRO! Call it what you wish; the Orion Metro, The OBI Flxible, The Orion VIII, the Orion Continental Mark VIII, the Orion VIII-70 (get it?) Call it a Pinto, I dont care...just PLEASE, SOMEBODY BUILD A FLX METRO!!!
Oh yes, and right before Flxible closed shop, they built a low-floor prototype of the Metro that looked exactly like the original without taking away from the styling. Just think....it could very well be a nice Orion IX!
Those would be the best looking Orion buses to date...imagine the possibilities.
I have a better idea, since Orion is now in the market build "somebody else's" buses, let's hound them to bring back the fishbowl. Can you imagine, a brand new Orion Fishbowl? And they should have the 5301 marker lights as well. Plus Hollywood prefers to film fishbowls over other buses anyway (including The RTS). Maybe Orion can do something good for once.
Hey, there you go; that would be neat! An Orion Fishbowl. OK, I just did an artist's conception of the Orion VIII earlier (will post ASAP); now the wheels are spinning again. Maybe a drawing of the Orion Fishbowl is in order....
-F.
I drew a picture of what the Orion X could be, and I had it as a sleek articulated low floor. However, I doubt that would ever happen, after seeing how the Orion VII is.
the orion 10
The Orion 870. That's what I'M waiting for!
-F.
Really? I'd love to see this pic!
I'd post it, but I don't have a scanner unfortunately. :(
I'd post it, but I don't have a scanner unfortunately. :( But hey, who knows, maybe the public should be head designers for Orion, lol, since they obviously can't come up with a decent bus anymore, although many (cough)Metro-Houston (cough) would argue that Orion has never made a decent bus anyway.
Id like to see a orion fishbowl but somthing like that has been made by new flyer.
If that's the case, then Orion should have no problem copying it.
Here is an even better suggestion for the folks at Orion:
Blow the whole thing (VII) up, cut your losses, and start all over again.
This vehicle was obviously badly planned, poorly designed, and miserably executed from the very beginning. Instead of an engineering and design enhancement on the VI (what it should have been in the first place), the VII is a major step backward in these areas.
One of the truly great things about the Orion VI design was the thick yet stylish roofline which made it possible to incorporate alternative fuel units such as CNG/LNG cylinders and hybrid and fuel cell units within the roof of the bus, making additional enclosures atop the roof for that purpose uneccessary. As it presently is now, the Orion VII has no such provision within its roofline, as it is simply too narrow, thereby forcing an additional enclosure atop the roof, creating possible overhead clearance problems.
And the overall appearance of the bus is further injured by the size of the passenger windows. On the New Flyer LF models (and even the NABI low floors), the windows past the rear door area are a little shorter in height than those in the front half of the bus to compensate for the raised area in the rear, but they are not so out of proportion that they create a visual distraction on the overall look of the bus. The Orion VII's rear area windows are too short and small. It looks like a badly-designed motor home with this window arangement.
And in addition, the windshield is too small in proportion to the other windows. It should be much larger and taller. The destination sign area could benefit from a modest size expansion as well.
In short, it's time for Orion to go back to the drawing board. Blow it up and start all over again.
Hello Bingham C50,
How about Orion making a low floor C-49 !!!
Bill "Newkirk"
LOL!!
Don't get me started...PLEASE!
Thanks for the laugh. We can use a few more around here more often.
Yeah...a low floor Old Look. That would be different. I think it would work better with a New Look though...especially with the larger window areas. In a LF Old Look, you'd feel like you were in a prison!
-F.
id stick with the Orion VI for MTA-NYC. the bus works well-and they did invest money in it-let the model come more to NY>
Yeah. I've ridden one on the WMATA, and it seemed pretty comfortable.
LOL!
Very true; New Flyer does make a Fishbowl lookalike; it's called the Invero. I love it...the styling is really NEAT!
-F.
"I'd like to see the back, though."
No, you don't. It's THAT hideous.
How bad? Let me know where I can see a pic of it.
-F.
i just look at the picture it doesn't look that bad!
AS IF!
You're down there with the SEPTA mess, so anything above a Neoplan or a NABI looks good to ya'll. Meanwhile in the NY Metro Region, we have plenty of bus types and this is TRUELY UNACCEPTABLE!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
while for new york it look like a piece of trash but for
septa anything is acceptable.
Excuse me? Neoplans (I don't know about NABIs) are great looking and riding buses. So, you go around and rave about your RTSs and Gilligs (well, a few of you) and you Flxibles in particular. Well, let's see. Did you notice that SEPTA has absolutely no Orions, yet NYC and other places do? Certainly no Gilligs around, nope, nada. No Flxibles either. I can't speak trash against NFs, because SEPTA is getting a few. Okay, my point actually is that SEPTA wouldn't touch that Orion VII crap with a stick, or any Orions for that matter. Saying that Orions are ABOVE Neoplans and NABIs? I truly beg to differ. I haven't ridden a spectacular Orion bus, despite the fact that I liked the VI and the Is. Sure, there isn't an immense variety of buses in the fleet, but I keep hearing that it's easier to maintain a fleet with a little variety than a huge variety. Plus, except for the Neoplan artics and 40ft Neoplans and the old 35ft Neoplans, they basically use new company for every type of bus they get. Low floors, New Flyer. 30ft, El Dorados. The WMATA, although it's a nice company with pretty decent buses one might say, practically gets all of their buses from one company, whether it be 27ft or 40ft. I bet the only reason they didn't get Orion or Flxible articulateds is because Orion and Flxible don't make them. Anyway, I keep hearing and seeing pictures of the immense variety of buses, but, well, I've only seen RTSs and a few Orions. I've never seen anything else, at all. Well, Sorry for the long angry message, but it angers me when people diss SEPTA vehicles. I don't know about maintainance issues, but for riding, I believe that SEPTA buses are the best ever, at least in comfort.
Hey the only buses I praise as Favorites ARE the Flxibles, MCI D Series and New Flyer/NABI in a thrid place tie.
Secondly, the reason why SEPTA was laiden with Neoplans in the first place is that the state was pushing what New York is pushing, BUY NEW YORK, just that for SEPTA is was BUY PENNSYLVANIA, So Neoplan built the plant in Honey Brook and that's what started the Neoplan. The order was for 1,000 buses in a Multi-Year Purchase. The order was broken down into small orders starting in 1984-1989. On SEPTA's behaf in the 70s, SEPTA bought a shitload of Flxibles and was the main stay fleet until the RTS-03s which lasted until the NABIs came. So that's why you never saw Flxible METROs on the SEPTA property, however SEPTA could have had a chance at Flxible around the same year as the NABI but by then, the Flxible Corporation was no more. So there could've been Flxibles in SEPTA who knows?!?!!? So that's why SEPTA is Neoplan-Laiden. The Articulated Fleet was a SEPTA decision made on thier own. The never even tested a New Flyer or NABI Articulated, so they didn't even give those buses a fighting chance. Now they want to run to New Flyer for Low Floors, Where are those precious little Neoplans now? They could've ordered Neoplan LFs.
I can't stand the Gilligs, so you got the wrong person on that comment, and I'm not to crazy about the RTSs either.
Also I'm not against Orion's totally either, I tend to favor the Orion 1s and the Orion 6s myself, But the 7 is just unacceptable in any stance, besides to go to show how much crap it is, It fell apart on the test shaker table. Hmmmmmmm??!??!?!
Lastly, I wasn't dissing SEPTA nor its vehicles, I come to philly myself and do photos because I like SEPTA. However, I just can't accept that Orion 7 and how NYCT just can't go for the BS anymore and I'm expressing that, Just like how others express some hatrid towards Flxibles, or RTSs and such.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
neoplan first order in the united states is 1000 of there bus go to pennslyvannia
Not quite. Atlanta and Milwaukee got their Neoplans in 1981, about a year before SEPTA.
yea but the pennliners was the first biggest order for neoplan
in the undited states.
DO YOU SEE THIS?! ISN'T IT ANNOYING?! EVERYONE ELSE HAS NORMAL SIZED FONT AND WE CAN READ MESSAGES FINE!!!!! NO ONE IS GOING TO OVERLOOK YOU!!!!! PLEASE CAP OFF YOUR HTMLS!!!!!!!
mine bad
[(SEPTA) never even tested a New Flyer or NABI Articulated, so they didn't even give those buses a fighting chance.]
Yes they did. About three years ago, SEPTA had a demo D60LF on the property. It was tested out of Midvale on the 6 and the 18 lines. I recall seeing that bus at the 1998 SEPTA Roadeo.
SEPTA also brought a NABI artic from Maryland MTA around that same time. I saw this bus in front of SEPTA Headquarters after a board meeting around three years ago.
[Now they want to run to New Flyer for Low Floors, Where are those precious little Neoplans now? They could've ordered Neoplan LFs.]
SEPTA is required by Pa. State Law to go with the lowest bid. New Flyer came in with the lowest bid. It's the same reason SEPTA went with Neoplan for it's artics, and with NABI for it's 400 bus order in 1996, and (initally) with Metrotrans before they went belly up. I don't know if that's how New York State works (it doesn't appear that way given what people have said about Orion and the MTA), but there's no way around it at SEPTA.
The Neoplan facility in Honey Brook was initially supposed to be a manufacturing plant, however, for some reason, Neoplan decided to keep it's bus building operations entirely in Colorado. The Honey Brook facility is one of the Neoplan parts warehouses. All of SEPTA's Neoplan buses have been built in Colorado; no buses, AFAIK, have ever been built at Honey Brook.
The SEPTA Neoplans were the buses that retired the Flxibles, not the RTS. There were still quite a few Flxibles at SEPTA during the mid-80s. It wasn't until 1989-90 - the year SEPTA recieved their last Neoplan 40 ft bus - when the last New Look was retired. The NABIs arrival forced the retirement not only of the RTS, but also of the 1982-83 Neoplans.
The 1,000 bus order you might be referring to was actually a PennDOT order, which took place in 1983-84. That order split the 1,000 Neos among several operators statewide, including Pittsburgh, Lancaster, Reading, York, Erie, Allentown, New Castle, and Luzerne County among others. The 1985-89 SEPTA Neoplans were part of a separate order that SEPTA placed on it's own.
Despite some teething problems in the first couple of years, I wouldn't call the SEPTA Neoplan order a "fiasco."
You are correct to some extent, to make sure I didn't make a ass of myself on this particular order, I made a quick call to my SEPTA source. The NABI and Neoplan Artic Low bid is correct, but the initial Neoplans were under the "Buy Pennsylvania" Rule. Neoplan however for one year was not the low bidder. Once I get the exact year, I can tell you who was the low bidder. Neoplan's buses are not a cheap (in pricing that is) as most people think.
The lowest priced transit on the market consecutively has been the Gillig. If I remember correctly though for that one year at SEPTA, TMC was the low bidder for the RTS-06, I'll get the exact info though.
As for the Honey Brook facility, it did do manufacturing BUT final phase manufacturing, meaning the frames were done out in Colorado but the coponents were done at Honey Brook. Just for that order, now Honey Brook resides as a Parts Plant.
I didn't state that the RTS replaced the Flxible, I meant that Flxibles (New Looks) were purchased straight up until the RTS-03s arrived. The 1985-89 still was really part of that Buy Penn crap. Either way, that rule sucks and NY is paying for it now (The Orion 7 and the repeating failing Bombarider R-142 Subway Cars).
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
all neoplan build in pennslvannia came all from colorado.
i think the plant in pa. are replace parts of buses.
not the frames.
Nope, the frames came from CO. The Final Assembly on the 1984-85 units were final assembled in Honey Brook!
Trevor
all neoplan build in pennslvannia came all from colorado.
i think the plant in pa. are replace parts of buses.
not the frames.
You mean that SEPTA could've had some RTS buses instead of NABI? Ouch. I really would've been in heaven if we had 400 RTS instead of the Ikarus buses. (I think NABI has built better products over the past few years, so I guess SEPTA got the last of the "junk" before it got better.)
In any case, perhaps the Buy Pennsylvania rule did hurt orders for quite some time, however, the Neoplans are still running fairly strong.
AFA Gillig, I don't think they even want anything to do with SEPTA. The largest system they deal with presently is King County Metro (Seattle). Historically, Gillig has shyed away from dealing with the larger systems - unless you want to count MTA (through it's LI Bus arm).
If SEPTA would have got the 400 RTS's.Then SEPTA would have the 200 Option Order aready. And the OLDER RTS's would have been Rebulit aready.
I don't know about the older RTS buses, as they arrived on SEPTA property in 1980, so I don't think SEPTA would want to do another overhaul on them. You're absolutely right about the newer RTS buses if SEPTA went with them instead of Ikarus/NABI. The upside is that we'd have 600 RTS buses roaming the SEPTA region instead of none. The downside is that the Neoplans would see a much quicker retirement...
104 RTS#5400 ctrabs74
Are you shure did SEPTA did Rebulit them before the NABI's came?
And the Neoplans from 1986-1989 would still be at SEPTA and I would like to see them buying MORE 40 Foots after This Year.
I don't know if they were "rebuilt" - at a minimum, the buses were overhauled. SEPTA never replaced the slope back of the RTS buses with a square back (ie. Houston), but I'm sure there was the routine mid-life overhaul for the RTS buses.
if septa will ever buy a rts they make sure that the a/c is up
top of it.
Despite some teething problems in the first couple of years, I wouldn't call the SEPTA Neoplan order a "fiasco."
I agree with you there. The AN440's in both the Pennliner order and the separate orders that followed in PA were probably some of the better equipment ordered by SEPTA since GM in the U.S. stopped producing the new looks.
My only gripe on the original Pennliner order (82-84) was that they were rushed through and many of these buses rusted out badly in the Western PA area. Subsequent orders of the AN440's proved to be very well built however.
In Pittsburgh, where I'm from, they were among the best equipment PAT had as most of the newer equipment they have is garbage and is constantly littering the sides of the roads broken down (and yes, I'm referring to the Flxible Metros and first order of Orion V's PAT had).
When I state "fiasco" that is not to say it was a bad order!
In the post I never downed the Neoplans.
Trevor Logan
Sorry, I misunderstood the subject header. I had a feeling you meant "fiasco" as in politically.
i think that the 1985-89 neoplan buses are built better afar as transmission wise.
Are you kidding? Those ZF transmissions are horrible (that is the only thing wrong with the 3000-series). They have low shift points which is the reason for the jerks between shifts. I am in favor of replacing The ZF's with 5-speed Allison World B-500's, then the 3000's will be great.
Well, I beg to differ. Now, if I remember correctly, the Allison engines were really loud an everything, they remindd me of fire engines. But the ZF buses, despite the jerkiness and everything, have the most interesting engine out of any bus ever made. So, that's why they are my favorite. However, it would be nicer i the jerkiness was reduced a bit.
on the new overhaul buses.the zf transmission gears has been shorting.by 30 mph it in last gear.on the old one's they reach 40 mph
Well, to each his own.
any way i dislike allison transmission because they slip to much on
the nabi's when the bus is on a hill the transmission struggle.the
zf however maintain a pick up.
Hey, don't forget that there are a lot of Neoplans with Allisons as well. I'm not sure if this goes for ZFs too, but I knwo that the Neoplans are really slow up hills. I mean, I remember standing on the 69th street hill, and the bus was coming up. A truck passed it a good bit ago!
No, I think the slow hill speeds are limited to the 8xxx-series Neoplans (Allison transmission). The 3xxx-series Neos (ZF) have a much faster acceleration up hills, especially the overhauled buses.
any way i dislike allison transmission because they slip to much on
the nabi's when the bus is on a hill the transmission struggle.the
zf however maintain a pick up.
i think that the 1985-89 neoplan buses are built better afar as transmission wise.
i think that the 1985-89 neoplan buses are built better afar as transmission wise.
THAT'S ENOUGH, THAT'S THREE TIMES IN A ROW!
Well, you have to understand that they don't have the same transmission. 1986-89 Neos have my all time favorite transmissions, the ZF (I forgot what it stands for) transmissions, despite the jerkyness, but that's what makes it fun, sorta. I mean, it's not too different than the PCCs and the Almond Joys, and everyone seems to like them, of course, the Neoplans have it in a more interesting place, or soemthing like that. Anyway, it's fun to listen to those engines.
zf stands for (Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen)
you can check out there web site here
Actually, Orion briefly made an artic of sorts; it was called the Orion IV (it looked like two RTSes joined together); very neat looking design. Also, if I'm not mistaken, I believe the Orion III was an artic as well.
Flxible (God rest its soul), which ceased to exist in 1996, would have had a really nice looking-vehicle had they released a Metro articulated, especially in WMATA colors. And they would have finally made a truly "flexible" bus!
why??
What do you mean, Why? That shit is a digrace to the transit industry. The RTS WFD looks like a Banana Split Sunday in comparison to that crap!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Hey, now, you are being way too harsh. I mean, sure it looks a little funky for a bus, but there are some decent parts, like, the, um, hmm, hold on a second........oh, i like the destionation sign, even thought it doesn't really fit with the rest of the bus....Anyway, what are suppose to be the advancements of the Orion VII over the other Orions?
I don't think he's being too harsh. Orion went from building the beautiful Orion VI, a vast improvement over that hideous box-on-wheels, the Orion V, to ripping off the beautiful NFI LF design. Not only that, THEY RUINED IT!!!!!
Actually, I like the looks of the V better than the VI; the latter just looks so out of proportion.
-F.
Hey hey hey Trevor, hold on a minute. After seeing that DART RTS WFD, I'm starting to kind of like them, just a little bit, as Kieth Sweat would say.
You've got that right; the WFD does look a lot like Keith's sweat....LOL.
The WFD looks like an RTS with a hideous facelift. Kind of like a squashed banana instead of a split. At any rate, it looks like something I ate and dropped. YEECH!
-F.
Well, at a first glance at the front you go like, whoa, what happened to that, but I think it is actually growing on me.
Well, at a first glance at the front you go like, whoa, what happened to that, but I think it is actually growing on me. Besides, 3 out of the 4 sides look just like an RTS, except for the front door. IT's like how I like 3 otu of the four sides of the Orion VI. It actually looks really nice, save the left side.
Hmm...sounds kind of like meeting a girl with a not-so-pretty face and getting to know her. I mean, you find out she has a great personality, and later in the evening you find that everythine ELSE looks good, things happen, and, well...it all looks good from behind. ;) LOL
Sounds like my first encounter with the late Mack C-50 Bingham Edition in Brooklyn back in 1957. They grew on me, however; to this day I still consider it one of the most innovative and attractive transit bus concepts of the 1950s.
And then again, hey, what did I know back then? I was only two years old.
:-)
Yeah...same here with the Gillig Phantom. All of a sudden this edgy, boxy thing on wheels comes into town to slowly replace our stylish, venerable fleet of Flxible New Looks that I loved (and were the very coaches that made me a bus fan for life!).
Over time, however, the Gilligs have come to grow on me; after all, they are the current town symbol for transit and are our TA's mobile ambassadors. Not only have they proven to be as solid and dependable as the mighty Flxes they replaced (despite what you may hear from LI Bus and other TAs across the country), but they have also given our city many years of dependable service, and one of them was the very first bus I ever got to drive (fleet no. 9108, to be exact).
With that, they now hold a special place in my heart, just as the Flxes have and always will.
-F.
Last night, I saw Die hard With a Vengeance on Channel 5. The funniest scene was with Bruce Willis as John MacLaine and Samuel L Jackson as "Zeus" in the stolen cab on the Upper West Side. They left 72nd St/ Bway headed eastbound on 72nd. When the cab got to Columbus,...get this...A JAMAICA BUS RTS CROSSING 72ND STREET! A TMC RTS FROM JAMAICA ON THE UPPER WEST SIDE! Only in the movies. Only in the movies. I was cracking up so hard when I saw that...I just had to tell you guys.
Also, the trains in the movie were sort of realistic, except for the car Nos., numbers of BMT cars that were retired and used by movie makers. LOL. A 3 train with redbirds? Ha! Try looking for THAT nowadays. Overall, though, it was a kick-ass movie.
CWalNYC
The Jamaica Bus I believe was 3834. The trains used seemed to be retired R30s 8397 and 8408 DK about the other car used though. Inisde the train the number was 8656. I've seen the movie quite a few times and it's a must see.
Q111#3834Gary
Also when they chase the dump trucks up the FDR and the Benz jumps off through the wall, Bruce Willis takes Jerry's dump truck at gunpoint. Supposedly on 125th Street right?
Maybe so, but right in front of a B63 bus stop sign...
I ride the Q30 and Q31 to go to skool alot. I keep catching the usuall 4300's and 3900's. But My B/O's leader always has either a Orion 600 series coach or a 9200 series coach. I wonder whats going. My Dad tells me that maybe some local buses are out and they need the extra equipment. Most of these buses do a short Trip to Springfield Boulevard near my school and then they pull into the Depot and so on.
Oh well
Soon I won't be riding the Q30 and Q31 too much since I will be graduating from Cardozo high. Funny enuf u should see the faces on Stengels operators on the Q27
That is not the only route that use the 600 Suburbans. Sometimes on Q75 runs the Orion Suburbans. Q79 will run them doing Off Peck Hours and Saturdays. And Some Orion Suburbans will pop up on Q46.
Your bus operator's leader could be somebody doing what we call an X piece. This is an overtime piece assigned each morning where the operator only does 1 or 2 trips and pulls back into the depot. Since the bus is out for usually no more than 2 1/2 hours, that could be the reason why he is always getting an Orion or 9200. I believe QV only has 2 or 3 9200s anyway, so it's probably the same buses you keep seeing.
BIG AL
P.S. Let's here it for Benjamin Cardozo H.S. I graduated from Cardozo H.S. back in 1981!!! Back then I used to ride the Q17A which is now the Q30.
WAIT A MINUTE!! My sister went to school at Cardozo HS. She graduated from there in 1999. She took the Q88 or Q75 to Q27. Now she is in Queens Collage. Her name is Stacey Bermudez.
I wounder if E to JAMAICA CENTER knows her?
Q88 Orion5 #611
They're not X-pieces. Usually runs 35, 34, and a few others will have an Orion because they pull out around 7AM, when there aren't many other buses in house to select from. Paul, your dad is right, of course :-)
MCI Press Release dated today (May 4, 2001) click here--> MCI Press Release - NJT receives first 325 coaches ahead of schedule
So how much is N.J. transit asking for their MC9's? They would make great motor homes.
Click here--> ABC Bus/used NJT coach info
They are taking reservations now for delivery of Eagle 20 and MC9 units starting this fall. The MC9s range from $8000 for the oldest 1982 models to $18,000 for a lav-equipped 1987. The Eagles are starting at $15,000.
Why wont they use the mci-9's on routes with Flixables. We have another 2 years before every route has new mci's. I would rather ride on an mci than a Fixable
With the exception of a few stragglers in the transit fleet, the oldest Flxible is a 1989 (1700-series transits, 3000-3100-3200-3500-3600 suburbans). Why would you put an older bus (in some cases, 7 years older) on that route?
Bottom line - the MC-9s were good, durable equipment that long outlasted their expected service life here in NJ. That's the main reason NJT went right back to MCI for more. But they're OLD. They're tired. And their time has come. When the 1982 order was placed, NJT paid $157,600 each. ABC is selling those units for just $8000 retail. There's just not much life left.
Thats true the Mci's are older. Just looks like you see more problems with the Flixables. This is the reason they are replacing all the buses.
When it comes time to replace the Flxible Suburbans on the Southern Division, do you think their replacements will be MCI's or RTS Super Suburbans ?
It won't be MCIs replacing the Flxible Subrubans. The 3000-3280 and 3500-3605 series buses will be around at least another year or two (both were built in 1989 - 3000-3280 are 96" wide; 3500-3605 are 102" wide). The Metro D Transits/Suburbans arrived in 1994, and are just barely half-way through their useful lifes.
Some candidates I've heard for replacing the Flxibles - when the time comes - are NABI and Orion. Those are the two companies Trevor has mentioned in the past.
I heard that the Flxible Bs will be out the door beginning in 2003.
Saw some problem LI Buses today, both of them the new 2000 Orions.
Saw 337 with a "not in service sign" leaving Walt Whitman due to an overheat (the bus did not do it's 2:47pm run). All windows were open when the bus finally left.
Also had 294 with no A/C on the N20, even with the windows open it was hot in there. Some guy actually opened the energency window for air. The engine was very hot, forget about the back seat.
Even the Series 50 CNG's are having problems in the heat. I think diesel buses fare better in temperature extremes anyway. The diesel Orions we have usually don't overheat like the CNG's in this weather.
Coolest buses were the two diesel Orions I rode on today. Also had Cummins bus 280 and the engine must've been 100db.
How many of you think LIB would have fared better not adding CNG buses to the fleet at all and sticking with diesel buses? CNG is an added expense, and LIB isn't exactly flushed with revenue.
thats not hot! Come to Phoenix Or Tucson 95F to 122F March - October here they run buses with non working A/C (They try to repair the buses or replace them in service) 5 years ago phoenix ran GMC/Flexible (1969-1974 Model Year) The buses had no A/C But in the last year they ran in 1996 phoenix they had to run with the Heater On In 115F heat just so the bus would run.
Just goes to show that bus service out west is much worse than here in the east.
Not true the CAT in Las Vegas is an excellent TA(Good mix of equipment as well)
I know that the MCI's are there. So I would like to know if anybody ever been to NJ Transit Caven Point Facility in Jersey City? I wood like to go there one day. I would like to know how to get there?
Its in the boonies of Jersey City, would not advise going there on your own. If you don't work for NJ Transit, YOU AREN'T GETTING IN THE FACILITY, SO HANG THAT UP! If you gonna go for pics, have a good zoom! However by next week, the facility will be mostly bus going out for auction since most of the new units will be dibursed by then the their proper properties. Until the Next 325 MCI D4000/D4500s come, Caven Point is DEAD!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
NJ Transit Bus Operator
www.transitalk.com
I have to agree with that. It's a long hike from the nearest Hudson-Bergen station, plus there really isn't a good place to get photos from the outside. The facility is virtually unnoticable, unless you're on the LRT (but even then, it's too hard to get numbers, as the train is moving at about 30-35 mph).
I did notice (from the outside) that 6386 and 6412 were at Caven Point, while they were testing some of the new Academy D4000s. I believe they will get (at least) 8584-8611 with more to follow. A lot of the Coach USA/Rockland Coaches buses were still awaiting acceptance by CUSA, as were a few of the D4000 coaches slated to go to Egg Harbor. While on the LRT, I did see a few MC-9As from Red & Tan/Rockland pulled from service.
BTW, Trevor, when are the next batches of MCIs due to arrive?
MCI's press release about completing the first batch says "third quarter 2001" - somewhere between July and September, the next 325 will start showing up, and that set must complete before December. NJT's contract states 650 must be delivered by December 31 2001.
Check my thread below for a link to that press release.
Kcram is correct about the next Order of 350, also in this next 350, first ever 96" D Series coaches will appear! The D4500s are not until like near the end of the entire order.
The last time I went to Caven Point, the Academy units were up to 8613 and I'm sure more is going to appear. I'm taking a ride back to the facility on Tuesday to gather up more numbers.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
How many of those D4000/96's are comming in the Next Batch? And the D4500's wront come until March 2002.
NO! THE D4500s ARE NOT COMING UNTIL LAST PHASE, 2003!!!!!!!!!!!
The D4000/96 order is between 96-120, they are deciding right now the exact number.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Several weeks ago there was a thread about what the author thought was a Boston MTA bus spotted in Brooklyn, Someone (IIRC BMTman) suggested it could be a Hassidic bus.
If you check Trevor's website (www.transitalk.com) click on "Contributed Photography", then click onJ.B. Rebis, Jr., and then click on Crown Heights Community Coach, I think that this may have been the coack the author saw. It is not from Boston but one can see how similar it can look from a distance.
Is the M15 the same route along 2nd ave and 1ST ave and does it still go to south ferry and what kind of busses do they ues out of the 126 depot thank you for the info
Yes. It runs RTSs out of 126th Street Depot but Artics were and maybe still are being tested. The route will eventually become all articulated once the options are all excersised (if they ever are).
They just finish tested last month on 126th St Depot & RTS buses run to south ferry all time. Articulated #1095-#1109 from Kingsbridge Depot might be heading to 126th St Depot very soon.
Peace
David Justiniano
MaBSTOA NYCT-Traffic Checker Operation
I don't know what you mean about if it still runs the same way. It's obviously different than it was in the past, but what past are you talking about?
M15 manly rns RTS's from the 5000's,8200's,8400's and 7500's. A OLDER RTS sometimes run on M15. And maybe the only Suburban in 126. Thats #3893 will run on M15. Some Articulateds where running on M15. #5406-#5407,and #5506-#5509 where the ones running on M15. My Grandma saw #5406 running on M15 back in 12/00.
M15 New Flyer D60HF#5406
I saw it this morning, and couldnt belive it. #9312-run 015 on the B1 this morning. I also saw #3965 and #4880 on the B49 today. I know Flatbush is putting express buses that they have all over becasue eventually they are to be retired, but what is the deal with #9312? UP as far as i know does have enough buses, this must be a fluke, right or did a bus dispatcher make a error. What gives?
I was going to post this also, but with 9315 on the B3 don't what run. Also I think I saw some UP 4700's on JG line. One I saw was on the B68 the other was on the B35. I could know get the number becouse I was in my car. I know that they were 4700's becouse of the triangle rear plate.
Robert
4:15pm
I just got a bus Number of the RTS's on the B68 it's 4778, it still has the UP logo on it. I just saw it out my window.
see my post about CNG at Gleason...
Obviously, Road Champs seems to belive that these are the best buses around. If not, they wouldnt have done the ho model based on it. they would have done a RTS bus or a Orion(My sister is waiting for some model company to do a New Flyer Low Floor)-i still wait for APM to do the GMC New Look-guess i will be waiting a looooooonnnng time.
well, that may not entirely be the case. I mean, everyone else does MCIs and RTSs and Corgi does the new looks, so Flxibles weren't being done. So, by making Flxibles, the demand is very high as far as buses could go and well, that's how business go. Anyway, they also make eagle greyhound coaches do. I'm still waiting for someone to make Neoplan Transliners. I know I saw one that Christmas eve or so, just so many years ago...
That's very true. When I first saw these in 1996, I was ecstatic (In fact, I think I jumped up and down screaming with joy in the middle of the store!). I immediately snapped up a few and began to customize some of them into Grumman 870s. Later on, I began to do WMATA versions, 35-footers, Alcoa wheel conversions, etc., and the rest is history.
Unfortunately, they did not catch on with the kids (who were their target consumers) so they are no longer made. However, I always grab some up whenever I find them so I can have some on hand for customizing. They are a great model of a beautiful bus, and I am proud to have them in my collection.
-F.
Are you sure they aren't still being made? The SEPTA museum has plenty of them, and they are in new packaging from the time when I got mine.
Hmm...they may be new old stock. I know the originals from 1996 in the window boxes are no longer made; however, I found a Houston Metro in the new bright blue "BIGGER CRASHING" blister pack dated 1999 once, so you never know. All I know is that they are really hard to find, and it's always great to find one.
-F.
Yeah. They only place I can get one are wanna be Flxible SEPTA buses at the transit museum store.
Hey, I have some too; I also customize to match various TA schemes and fleet numbers. Hit me up at StarCityCustoms@aol.com; I also do 30 and 35-foot versions; everything is detailed out (including lights and exhaust) and Alcoa wheels are an option. You may also see an example of my work at (members.aol.com/Fredman176); Hope to hear from you soon!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
fred-
is it easier to do a 35ft model instead of the 30ft?
It's about the same procedure, but the 35-footer seems to be easier to put back together so far than the 30-footer. BTW, work is progressing on the first 30' Road Champs Flx as we speak. :)
-F.
keep me up to date on the 35 and the 30 foot-my june bus order comes from u f-if it will be ready.
Will do; thanks!
-Fred
P.S.: Talk to me about the RTSes.
He does make some fine coversions! I just got a WMATA Flxible Metro #9322! She is a fine piece of work and I suggest that you fellow BusTalkers do the same and get some of these great buses.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
www.transitworld.org
How much do they cost?
E-mail me for details; StarCityCustoms@aol.com. Thanks!
-Fred
Thanks DaShawn; I'm glad you liked it. Say, think you might like a 30' 5100 series WMATA Flx to keep 9322 company? :)
If anyone is interested in custom model buses, let me know; thanks!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Sure! That would be great! I will e-mail you with the details.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
www.transitworld.org
I agree; kudos to Road Champs. They took the giant leap and really made a winner there, and it's a great model. Also, it's FUN to customize!
-F.
P.S.: I plan to modify one into a 30'version soon. :)
Just remember, Flxible wanted nothing to do with that model, and there are intentional "mistakes" in the model to prevent Road Champs from being sued - such as the misspelling "Flxable" on the front and rear (look closely, it's NOT an "i").
In contrast, Corgi goes out of their way to ssecure licenses to use accurate trademarks on their models. Their MC-8 toy from the 70s was authorized by both Greyhound and MCI.
I never realized that. It looks so close that it fools the eye! Of course, if you really want the visual, it's nothing that a fine brush and a dot of black paint won't fix...;). Trust me, I'm well-seasoned in detailing these things.
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
ah-but does Corgi do ho scale models-NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
So us fans who like ho scale models have to accept with what we have-i guess i will still wait for APM to do the gmc new looks-whenever that occurs
Actually, Corgi does the Original Omnibus in 1:76 scale (which is close to HO); they actually do a VERY nice Dennis Dart. You should see it; it's GREAT!
-F.
Pirate Models makes Ho Models of both the Metro and 870 models and are available for order at most hobby shops
Yeah...I have one of the Grumman 870. From what I understand, these are no longer made, hard to find, and cost as much as an Elton John/Billy Joel concert ticket to buy, sans shipping. At least that was my experience. :)
If you are able to take out a second mortgage on your home, I definitely suggest buying one of these models should you get the chance; all joking aside, they are a real beauty. I plan to cut mine down to a 35' version to match our old 870As from 1979 when finished.
-F.
ah,but the problem is you have to bulid them, and unfortuanely, i do not know how to ;-(
METROCARD & CARDHOLDERS COLLECTORS CATALOG
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made out to: Mike Makman, To: Prof. Putter, Po Box 755
Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
Professor Putters book: METROCARD MANIA!! Fun With Used MetroCards!
This beautiful paperback book is published by Price Stern & Sloan. It includes over 30 different projects using NYC MetroCards. Games, magic tricks, toys. Great for kids from 8 to adult. To order send $5 each + $3.00 (s&h) (outside USA $6.00 s&h) in US money, check or money order made out to: Michael Makman. Send order to: Professor Putter PO Box 755, Planet Station New York , NY 10024-0539
Yesterday.
I got on #5548 on Q60. The AC on that bus makes the WHOLE Bus feels COLD!! And I notice something that The Button by the rear door to ring the bell. One of them is GONE!! The Other is still there. The Last time I went on it witch was a Few Months ago on Q10. Broth Buttons to ring the bell was there. Now it just one!! My goodness I wounder what could happin to that one?
Q60 Orion5 #5548
While scanning the airwaves late last night, noted on the brooklyn division patch that dispatchers were escorting Flyer CNGs from JG to Command, Queens Surface and Triboro Coach for fuel. By 3am they had like 65 buses fueled, and trying (begging, pleading) to get operators that were off saturday to take more buses out for fuel.
From what i heard on the radio, it sounded as if the pumps at JG would be down thrugh the weekend. Also heard something about UP sending 45 buses to JG for the weekend to make service.
This CNG bs just gets better and better, doesnt it?
Next thing u know, they will turn all of sunset park into a crater.
Did they send the Nova Suburbans to JG from UP?
Well there are Orion Expresses sitting around in Edgewater? Put them to use!!!
I don't think anything good has come from clean air standards forced upon us by stupid environmentalists. We have to buy costly, complicated CNG buses, and we cannot idle, but it's OK for rich yuppies to buy as many gas guzzling SUV's as they want.
How baout this? We ban all SUV's and relax air quality standards on buses? A diesel bus creates much less pollution than the 30 or more people who would otherwise drive their car or SUV.
Why does this always happen with JG? You never seem to hear about problems with the privates CNG system. I'm not sure of the severity of the problem, but this should leave Southwestern Brooklyn with some major gaps in Service if it persists.
Shaun
The problem is it is not a good idea to have a depot rely this kind of percentage of their service on CNG and especially low floor CNG yet. CNG is not yet mastered by some, and if it still poses problems, no fully CNG depots should exist, which is why JG should give about 20 of their New Flyers to Command or somewhere else where they don't pose a problem, and then JG should get some extra RTS or Orion suburbans like what Flatbush has now in 4497, and those 4880 series they have
But if you have a back up plan with you friends in NYC, then if any of them have a problem service still continues because you have somewhere else to fuel the CNG buses. Wonder what nycDOT will charge them for the fuel ?
BTW, Roger Toussaint was at a QSC retirement party Sat. He arrived late with his lively wife and excused him self due to a "problem" at Jackie Gleason. He didn't elaboriate, but it would appear he had something to do with this. Nice to here that he a friend to the surface division TWU staff even though he's taking them in a new direction ;-)
Mr t
Interseting thought, JG stores the 2 most recent additions to the Museum Fleet right? 1201 and 5227. Why not use them in service for these few days?
1201 - RTS - People know about this bus and are able to drive it. It is almost similar to the 8400-8500s at JG, with a few exceptions, like the Vulton ODK - where there are the different codes. Also, it had the new farebox - just reattach one and put to service.
5227 - Blitz Fishbowl - There have to be some drivers that remeber how to drive this bus there. I think the farebox can easily be attached since it had the new coin farebox after the push-lever one disappeared. Also, the roll signs have the JG routes on it since it was last stationed there. I would love to see this bus back in service.
Also, what about borrowing Stored RTSs from NYCT storage yards and/or Command storage?
Today while driving up Penn Ave from Starrett City, I saw 978 make a left from Penn to Flatlands heading to Command. Then a few blocks up, here comes 891 making a right from Linden onto Penn Ave. This was the first thing that cross my mind. However, earlier in the day I saw two low floors on Church Ave in regular B35 service.
B35#978Mike
B65#891Mike
So the B68 is running with UP buses again? Memories.....
B68#4778Mike
Am windering why LI Bus wasn't included. They have a big CNG facility, vs. Triboro or Cammand & they wouldn't have to pay real money for the fuel (from LI Bus it would be a paper transfer within the MTA).
Mr t__:^)
Probably because they'll have to go to Mitchell Field which is out near Nassau Coliseum. The MTA Probably thinks it's too far to go there just to refuel. Also there may be a bit of a controversy that MTA NYC buses are running on Long Island to refuel.
B16#823Gary
True, but if I needed to fuel the whole fleet cTc & Command aren't equiped for more then a few buses, that leaves QSC which has 3 lanes.
We'll even wash them at a discount, soap & wax are extra though :-)
Mr t
I would like to know if Frontier will be getting More ElDorados? And are they going to run Route 127? I hope they do run on Route 127.
frontiar is not geting more eldorados
Well, yesterday, I spotted Neoplan 3200 at Trenton Station. Actually, the 40 ft buses are more suited for the 127 than the Eldorados. The ridership on that line is pretty good compared to the other 3 Bucks lines. The 130 probably won't see Eldorados since ridership is fairly low, even with the extensions to Newtown boro.
I guess Ridership have been up since the last time I used the 127. That was back in 1995. Got on a 35 Foot Neoplan #1314 on 127 back in 1995. Frontier have about 5 at that time. NOW all of those that are from Frontier are DEAD!!
BTW. What Routes are the ElDorado's out of Frontier will run?
127 Neoplan AN435 #1314
i rode on a 35 footer yesterday.
I always thought that Frontier included the 90's routes too. Anyway, if they do, the 95 is certainly going to get them. I thought there was one of the 3 bucks county routes that used 40ft buses, as I saw one on the schedule, it was eiher the 129 or 130.
when will the neoplan 35footer will retired.
if you ask me i say that septa will keep the 35 footers for 2 more years.
Knowing SEPTA, that might happen. However, the 35 ft Neos are not in great shape. I think the 35 ft Neos will be retired by the summer, and will be phased out once the inspection sticker expires.
as far as phyical they look in great shape.but in tec. i
don't know.
It's the 129. I don't think ridership on the 129 is that high to begin with. The 128 has a Breeze van, while the 127 and 130 have Eldorados on their timetables.
I haven't been out to Bucks lately, but the last time I was there, I saw Breeze vans on the 128, 129, 130, and 203. On the 127, I spotted a Neoplan and an Eldorado. I don't know if the Eldorados are going to be used in Bucks on a regular basis or not.
The 95 seems like a perfect fit for the Eldorados, though there might be a Breeze van or two tossed in for good measure. The 92 in West Chester has been mostly Breeze vans, but an Eldorado has made it's way out here from time to time. Since some 92 trips are now interlined with the 133, I wouldn't be shocked to see more Eldorados out here.
Frontier is both the 90-series routes at Norristown/Montgomery County and the now 6 Bucks County routes.
Eldorados can be (and have been) spotted on the 92, 94, 95, 127, 128, 129, 130, 133, and 206, although their appearances can be somewhat random.
That's CRAZY!! Just keep it on 1 Line. NOT a Bunch of Diffent Lines!!
No, it's not. They should have it all over the system to give everyone a chance to ride it!
it also depends on ridership
eldorado for the victory side is 103,105,106,107,108,110,111 and 305.
ElDorados are also fround on Red Arrow RTE's 133 and 112.
i won't be surprize if i see them at another depot suck as southern or even callowhill
When are they found on the 112? On late night or school runs? That's also a fairly utilized route. At least, it was last time I rode it.
I've seen the Eldorados on the 112 at rush hours, when paired with a short trip 104 to Newtown Square. This is the 5:15pm 112 departure from 69 St Terminal that I'm talking about.
Well, if it's a short trip, I guess it is reasonable. I see so many El Dorados at the Victory Depot now.
Doing Rush Hours and Weekends on 112.
When are they found on the 112? On late night or school runs? That's also a fairly well utilized route. At least, it was last time I rode it.
Are you sure about the 108 and 110? I mean, I've ridden both of those routes, and they are rather busy. They use NABIs and Neoplan 40ft buses extensively. The 105 probably used those El Dorados on the last runs to Haverford and City Line.
i am very sure on saturday aroud 7pm,i seen them on both
routes
They must've have been short runs or something. The 110 is really busy, I know that for sure, so it seems wierd for it to have a 30ft bus running on it.
exact what the question implys.
Since the change in January, how many runs come out of Yukon on weekdays, saturday and sunday?
The same with Castleton? Misc pieces included
I was on 2 buses this morning that were missing numbers: 4925 on the Q88 and 3972 on the Q46. 4925 which looks like 1925 is missing part of the 4. 3972 the 2 is missing. 8390 the 8 and 3 were missing. 3950 the top part of the 5 is missing. Same goes for 4150. 4484 the whole number was missing and 3978 was handwritten. 3971 looks like 8971. My question is wassup with the QV Buses?
Q46#3950Gary
Q88#4150Gary
Q30#4925Gary
Q31#8390Gary
Q43#3972Gary
Q36#4484Gary
SUBTALK LIVE THIS SATURDAY
May 12, 2001
7:30 PM ETBusTalkers are welcome, too!
SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. This is our first chat. Subsequent chats may be held depending on this week's success. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
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Just go to http://www.subtalklive.com and join in! Instructions for mIRC users will be posted at a later date.NOTE
It is strongly reccomended you enter the room and troubleshoot BEFORE Saturday night!WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU!
oh!!
The TT shows on a new updated image section, where it shows the ID for each model:
1995 RTS: 8751-8752 are now 8750-8751. Weren't they always 8750-8751? If they weren't, then what was the other bus of the 500 bus order of 8750-9249?
1999 LFS: 995 is now 999. When did this change happen and why?
The other way around. It was 999 and became 995.
1999 LFS: 995 is now 999. When did this change happen and why?
Now they can use 996-999 for other experimentals.
They've used 996-998 for the New Flyer Viking cruiser buses.
[The other way around. It was 999 and became 995]
If I remember correctly, the number was changed from 999 to 995 except on the roof, where the number remained 999.
I don't know what's going on now, but my recollection is that 8750-8751 always had those numbers. These two buses were a bit different from the rest of that fleet. They have interior lighting like the 1994 Novas (8600-8703). I remember 8750-8751 operating on Walnut routes before the others started arriving in NYC. I'm not sure but I think 8750-8751 did not go to Atlanta (Summer '96 Summer Olympic s).
Wayne
New York Times article
Writer Richard Bernstein walked from 82nd and Broadway to Third Ave between 78th and 79th while his wife Zhongmei Li walked to and rode the 79th Street Crosstown, in an attempt to illustrate Bernstein's contention that the switch to articulated buses slows the trip because, with the same number of seats in fewer buses, each stop requires more time to unload and load.
Zhongmei should have gotten the bus at 81st and Amsterdam instead of 79th and Broadway. She would have caught the bus she missed, maybe even the one before that.
Richard claims he walked down CPW to 79th Street and looked for a bus there. What, did he expect it to pounce out of the front entrance to the Museum of Natural History?
Perhaps there was a big mystical spell on the driver so it went slower than normal! :-)
I had the exact same two thoughts. Having lived in that neighborhood for many years both before and after the artics, and knowing that the area residents are down on the artics (mainly because the longer bus stops take up parking spaces), I suspect that our author set up a biased experiment.
I walked across town and through the park many times -- the only times walking beat the M79 was when the transverse was closed.
Were the bus stops actually lengthened?
Yes, the crosstown buses can be slow on the streets but they make good time through the park.
As for the transverse being closed, back when I rode the crosstown (M18/86 or M17/79) every day, my experience was that 86th was closed far more often than 79th -- apparently 86th is slightly lower so it floods more often. I once rode an M18 that went all the way around the north end of the park since all the transverses (except 66th?) were flooded.
On one of my more interesting M79 rides, around 1991, as we pulled out at CPW, one of the passengers who had just boarded ran up to the driver and vehemently complained that the bus was following its regular route. Nobody, including the driver, had any idea why she was complaining until we rounded the first curve and found four buses pulled over. Naturally, we pulled over as well. Further investigation revealed that two cars had collided under the first overpass and the buses couldn't squeeze by. We joined the other four busloads and walked the rest of the way across -- the ice on the sidewalk was no big deal, since the eastbound lane was empty (the buses were blocking it), but westbound traffic must have wondered why the eastbound lane was full of hundreds of pedestrians instead of cars. I ended up getting to school 30 minutes late (granted, I was running late before any of this happened); subsequent buses, apparently, were rerouted through 86th, so I should have left home even later.
The bus stops were lengthened by about 50 feet to accomodate at least 2 artics at each stop. Eastbound at Madison, the stop was moved to the SE corner instead of the SW corner. The Park Avenue stop was eliminated in both directions, since the lengthened Park and Madison stops would have been way too close together. I think that Park was the only stop eliminated.
86th Street still floods much more often than 79th. 79th usually only gets closed for parades or construction -- although in the winter 79th is often closed during the AM rush as that transverse tends to become much icier than the others. There is also a tendency for some dangerous icicles to form under some of the bridges there.
CG
The stop at Lexington was also moved from the NE corner to NW.
The stop at Lexington was also moved from the NE corner to NW. Also, most of those stops hold about 1.5 articulated buses. One artic and one RTS just fit.
From the mainland.... :-)
Lucky man.
I walked across the park yesterday and the bus at Columbus beat me to 3rd Avenue. I have reason to believe the bus I parallelled on the east side was the bus behind the original so it wasn't much slower.
Yesterday - I was passing through downtown Silver Spring and on the 28 -Shuttle I spotted WMATA's 9381 - which is a 40102-6C-1 from Montgomery division.
Wayne
I've seen similar on RO 36. Not much anymore though.
A Jersey City resident who is a cancer survivor (so far) with a compromised immune system and is supposed to avoid breathing motor exhaust objects to mini buses idling in his neighborhood waiting for dispatch, so he posted 2 signs warning: BUSES WILL BE EGGED.
Yesterday he egged a Pyramid Express Transportation mini bus whose engine was turned off, according to the driver.
Jersey Journal story
Hey - the man is terminally ill - cancer, immune problems, et al - he probably won't be living much longer. Let him have some fun!
I know damn well that if I had terminal cancer and Doc Kevorkian weren't around, I'd definately be doing crazy stuff. Why not? I'd be dead in the near future anyway.
And once I DO die, cancer, natural cause, or what have you, I'll be having some REAL fun in spirit! Haunting and spooking people beyond belief!
Those things do think, I find their idling very annoying (and stinky) while waiting for a real (NJT) bus at the GSP mall. Those mini-buses smell worse than most vehicles on the road (except for old trucks).
Does neoplan make the LFS? because the silver line bus looks like The LFS.
Do you have a photo of the bus that is Going to run the Sliver Line?
No but I saw a bus that looked like the LFS at Regan national airport. The Bus was used in washington flyer service.
It probably looks like a snake if it runs on the sliver line.
The LFS is made by NovaBUS, same manufacturer as the RTS. The Neoplan you saw was very likely the AN440TLF or AN445TLF. Click here and tell me if this is the bus you saw -> Neoplan USA AN440/445TL. Check the United Aurlines bus at the bottom in particular (I know, it's very tiny).
No it didn't look like that Or was it from vanHool?
Man, that Neoplan TLF is one neat-looking bus! I like the styling of the front end, especially the flush headlights and the Flx Metro-type destination sign area (bet it would look even better with black around the windows).
The interior looks very fresh and spacious; the fully low floor plan really trips me out! And that seating arrangement to the left is neat and different....kind of like a nice, spacious rail car. I wonder which cities run these already?
-F.
i never seen one
While on my trip to D.C and Balitmore yesterday, I got a hold of some hot to death information. While on the Baltimore MTA property, I found out that they are testing out a NovaBUS RTS-06, a NJ Transit UNIT at that. On had were officials from NovaBUS, So I flashed that golden NJ Transit employee pass and I was in there.
Here is the juice:
1) The NovaBUS RTS Low Floor Idea is being SCRAPPED!
2) NovaBUS and Volvo are working on a new low floor bus to be premiered this September.
3) Baltimore MTA, should they go with Nova for the next order, Will be WFD Novas
4) The LFS will be discontinued sometime soon!
Enjoy the information!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I'll bet the RTS LF was dropped because of the body construction. I'm betting the modules probably weren't as stable with the floor lowered a foot and a half.
Not a surprise that the LFS would be shelved for a Volvo design, since the LFS was built under license with a design of Volvo's competition in Europe.
What Volvo/Prevost/Nova should do with the RTS is:
- reintroduce the RTS articulated
- return the WFD to the original RTS-08 front end that TMC developed, the one that actually LOOKED like an RTS
- change to a pantograph door on the WFD - the slide-glide panels are curved, and reduce door entry clearance
With those items put together as a new model (Series 9, maybe), they can drop both the 06/NFD and the 08/WFD.
By the way Trevor, you need to edit that description on the Roster and Image page - you have the Dallas DART RTS as an 06 - all WFDs are 08.
The RTS-08 died with TMC. I checked with NovaBUS Officials, and they have told me that its still the RTS-06 just tack on the WFD to the name.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
what ever hapened to T.M.C?
Technically speaking, NovaBUS bought TMC from MCI. The first Nova-built RTSs all had TMC nameplates (Boston's order was in production at the time of the switch), and the Nova stationery had both the Nova and TMC logos on it. The 1996 NJT RTSs have a TMC plate. Ironically, the 1999-2000 RTSs have "VOLVO" on the pedals.
No way...VOLVO on the pedals? OK...if crash test dummies are driving the bus, I'm bailing out the window...LOL!
Seriously though, that's pretty neat, albeit a bit weird for a GMC design to go through so many names...GMC (the fathers of the original design), TMC (Tits-up Motor Company), NovaBus (ironic as GM made the Chevy Nova), and now VOLVO. Wonder what's next. Hopefully Volvo won't decide to kill off the RTS design; they would only go backwards in styling from there.
-F.
NovaBUS was formed as a subsidiary of Nova Quintech, a Canadian fire truck manufacturer, specifically to purchase the production of the Classic in 1995. When other deals for the RTS fell through, MCI offered the RTS to Nova as well, and they were able to close both deals fairly close together. Oshkosh Truck bought assets of the fire truck manufacturing operation in November 1997; Volvo (via Prevost) purchased the bus operations a month later (December 1997).
Nova's biggest cash drain was the LFS. They had to purchase the license of the design and set up the production line in order to meet the Canadian low-floor bus requirements that the Classic would not be able to meet. They never recovered from that investment outlay, despite the sales of the LFS and RTS, thus the sale fo the company at the end of 1997.
Anyone else know who else was considering buying it?
Where I live, Lancaster, PA, The 5 NovaBUS RTS buses Red Rose Transit has purchased since the TMC sale (996, and 101-104) all have their RTS-TMC-Roswell New Mexico plates by the front door, but have NovaBUS builders' plates with the model and tire info above the driver.
Thank you, thank you, THANK you! Finally...someone who agrees with me. Make the WFD look like an RTS again! I absolutely agree..the early CTA-style 08 front end looks a LOT sleeker than that horrid tack-on afterthought that is currently offered. What the hell were they THINKING when they slapped that on there? It just ruins the bus.
I'm not sure if I agree with killing off the RTS-06, but I can see where it would save cost should the WFD be revised as you have prescribed in the previous message. We here at BusTalk have spoken, and these are sound improvements for an attractive and proven design.
Think about it, Volvo/NovaBus/Prevost/Microsoft/AOL/DaimlerChrysler/Cougar Mellencamp/Baxter-Birney/Newton-John, or whoever you are.
Crap! I was looking forward to seeing what an RTS LF would look like. On a lighter note, it's good to hear that they went back to the drawing board; let's hope the next Nova low floor won't be as ugly as the LFS...something about that front end just made me sick.
Speaking of ugly...WFDs at the MTA? EEYUCK! Give me a nice, sleek RTS-06 over those hideous monstrosities any day.
-F.
I don't think that a low-floor RTS would work anyway because the floor would be quite narrower due to the RTS body design.
How so? Explain.
Well, the bottom edge of an RTS is narrower than the floor, so if there was an RTS low floor, the floor would be about 6" narrower and the width of the aisle would be the same as a school bus (and they have very narrow aisles). If there is a low floor version of any bus, you want to make sure that the floor width is the same (otherwise, the wheelchair can't move to the floor, thus defeating The ADA compliance).
Hmm...well, like most low floor buses (i.e. New Flyer, Gillig, etc.) the RTS LF would work best if it was only offered as a 102" bus. From the sound of it, a 96" version would be out of the question altogether.
-F.
Newsday has the following article, "Not Up to Speed, 5 bus lines fail tests in key areas." I'm not sure how to set up the hyperlink here but here is the URL:
http://www.newsday.com/news/daily/bus508.htm
There wasn't much detail in the article. I believe the article said the "privates" fared better then last year, but still have a way to go, so still scored low or failed on some 9 categories.
Some of their standards are rather tough, e.g. a gum wrapper gets you a bad rap, they count ever sheet of a newspaper. Some others are a bit unfare, e.g. buses are crowded because the free transfer program is a success, but the TA & nycDOT both haven't responed quick enough with enough buses to transport these extra customers.
The good news is that these surveys keep everone on their toes, to get the preformence bonus money ... that's good for the customers. BTW, these surveys happen all year long, so it's not like the operators just gear up for "sweep week". What does the TA do to ensure that their depots maintain the same level of service that nycDOT requires of it's operators ?
Disclaimer: I'm not an official spokesperson for the MTA, TA or nycDOT, so am speaking just for myself.
Mr t__:^)
The passage that struck me was "Company officials said the city requires 100 percent compliance in some categories, such as curbside service and posting of handicapped seating signs, and the companies failed by 1 or 2 percentage points." If the privates are "failing" at 98-99% of compliance, it doesn't sound so concerning.
Newspapers like to use words to get your attention. "Failed" is a good one. I've seen the detail from passed reports. Some of the "privates" need to spend a little more effort on some of the "9" then others. I'm think of one who seems to like to see how dirty they can get their buses.
But for areas like cleanlyness I think then need a different yardstick, i.e. counting every sheet of a newspaper or every little piece of a torn Lotto ticket is nonsense. I see our fleet inside & out every day (looking for used MetroCards at lunch time). Our buses are clean period ! We even have a mid-day crew that picks up after commuters who leave their coffee cups & newspapers behind.
Now this is not to say that we shouldn't work on meeting the schedule better (as a LIRR rider for 11 years, I would get real upset if my train was 10 to 15 minutes late), or getting the bus to the curb, however we shouldn't get a black mark because somebody parked their car in the bus stop.
Guess I better re-state my DISCLAIMER, just in case somebody from the press wants to quote me ... I don't work for the MTA, TA or nycDOT and am speaking just for myself here.
Mr t__:^)
Saw it in Flushing today. This is the Orion CNG with the Deer engine.
It was operating on the Q65. From what I could see and hear, it appeared it had no middle seat (just like DD Series 50) but sounded a little different. It definately took off when it left the bus stop and sounded more powerful than the DD powered buses. Is that 4 or 6 cylinders?
In general though QSC's Orion CNG's are better than those we have at LI Bus. Even the new 300s. I think LI Bus has bad maintainance because the QSC Orion CNG's which use the same CNG engine (DD S50G) as the new 300s at LI Bus run ALOT smoother.
The DDs in our Orions are 4 cyl, the two John Deer's are 6.
Mr t__:^)
So I was right the Deer is a 6 cylinder! No wonder it's faster!
Well, you have to factor in the 4's are much bigger then the 6's.
Horse power/torque ... sorry don't know, but maybe someone else can offer a comparison.
I'm just a Subway Buff who happens to work for a bus company & while not in maintenance, I'm curious, to a point, about the topics discussed here. I'm also not in the Transportation department, but think that SERVICE is our number one job.
Mr t__:^)
Specifications for the DD Series 50 are here, and for John Deere CNG, see here. I have no idea which Deere engine is going into QSC buses, but I'd guess it's the 6081H-280, since it's the only that comes close to the DD50 CNG (280hp/900ft-lbs torque for the JD, vs. 320hp/1150ft-lbs torque for the DD).
Now this guy knows his buses (and subway's too).
My friend, you've hit the nail on the head ... I found a promo brochure that the VP of Maint. gave me some time ago. It says they're using the 6081HFN 280 HP engine in our two buses.
P.S. the same brochure say they also have their engines in buses at Atlanta, Palm Desert, LA, & San Beradino. It's dated Jan 2001, so there may be more or less by now.
Mr t__:^)
Today I went to the NYC Transit Museum. To get back to GCT, I decided to take the B51 to NYC to kill time and see some things. On one of the streets right after the beginning of the terminus, I saw out of the front of the bus like 2 blocks ahead what appeared to be a Command/Varsity Fishbowl driving on the street. I wasn't able to catch a number but I am sure that it's Command/Varsity from the Green & Yellow stripe. It had glass in the entire back of the bus and this bus did not have an A/C unit above the glass rear window like the NYC Fishbowls had. Anybody have any information concerning this?
Anybody have any information on my post?
"Today I went to the NYC Transit Museum. To get back to GCT, I decided to take the B51 to NYC to kill time and see some things. On one of the streets right after the beginning of the terminus, I saw out of the front of the bus like 2 blocks ahead what appeared to be a Command/Varsity Fishbowl driving on the street. I wasn't able to catch a number but I am sure that it's Command/Varsity from the Green & Yellow stripe. It had glass in the entire back of the bus and this bus did not have an A/C unit above the glass rear window like the NYC Fishbowls had. Anybody have any information concerning this? "
When I last passed the DOT Storage Yard in Brooklyn on 8/23/00 there was a Command GMC Non A/C Fishbowl #235 in there. Perhaps that is what you saw or you saw a former C/V that was sold to a private operator.
There was also a Flxible Fishbowl non A/C # 793, but that was in such disrepair that I doubt is was roadworthy.
It seems Metro is becoming a ride of teror these days. Yesterday, Neoplan AN460 Suburban No4416 was speeding in the HOV lane and ran into the back of a Lincoln Navigator at 40mph sending flying in the air and it landed upright but in a totally different direction. The car burst into flames and they spread and engulfed the bus. All the passeners from 4416 were able to escape as were the passengers in the Navigator, except one young girl who was pinned in the back seat. Rescuers tried in vain but could do nothing as they watched her die painfully as the flames engulfed the car. The bus is a total loss as well. I cannot imagine Metro rebuilding this bus. It's be a waste. The driver was suspended without pay and charged with failure to control speed.
Today, NFI D40LF No. 4144 ran into the back of an HISD school bus knocking it over onto it's side (the school bus). The D40LF was pretty messed up, but repairable. I'm just surprised that a little D40LF could knock over a FULL SIZE BLUE BIRD SCHoOL BUS! There were minor injuries, but nothing major. The driver was charged with speeding. I could only imagine what would have happened with an old GMC RTS.
Geez, those drivers of Metro are crazy!
Think God nobody Aborad the Articulated Bus did nt get hurt. BTW. What bus did the Passengers have to get on to go the Rest of the Way? And do you have a Web Page on Buses from METRO?
No, I don't have a webpage on Metro, sorry. And I don't know what bus the passengers got on after the accident.
Hay.
How about send me a few scans of photos of buses of METRO then. E-Mail it to MTAboy99@aol.com. OK.
the ddc50
Early models of this engine coupled with a 5-speed automatic suffered chronic tranasission failures due to the high torque of the Series 50. In fact, our 1994 models (first year for the 4-stroke mandate) had their warranty extended from 3 to 5 years by Gillig, though it was not their fault. Just another example of first-year model bugs with newer drivetrains!
-F.
so base you trying to say that the transmissions are like the
transmission on a ford tarus.
Okay Okay the MCI bus comes after the Staten Island Railway but heck I'm not that much into buses.
I have had some personal email to do the SIR one more time so Monday May 21st I will host another trip down to Tottenville on the Staten Island Railway.
Here's the kicker, for those that want we can return from the wilds for Staten Island via the X1 express bus and ride an MCI Coach.
Here is the general plan, details to be modifed:
Two departure times, we meet in Eltingville for those that can make the eariler boat we are stopping for dinner.
5:30pm Boat
5:55pm Arrival St. George
6:02pm EXPRESS Train #94, Detrain at Eltingville
6:19pm
6:19pm to 6:50 Dinner at Burger King or Pizza Joint or Bagel Shop or whatever.
For those that can't make the 5:30pm boat you can try the
5:45 take the express train to Eltingville 2nd stop
or the 6:00pm boat take express train to Eltingville 2nd stop
or the 6:15 boat DO NOT GET OFF THE TRAIN
The people from the 5:30 boat and any meeting in Eltingville will reboard at Eltingville at 7:13pm (this is trian 106 from the 6:15 South Ferry Boat).
We will travel to Tottenville 7:29pm. There is the 7:37pm return trip to St. George making the 8:30pm boat with arrival at South Ferry 8:55pm. If people want to explore Tottenville the next train is 8:07 for the 9:00pm boat arriving at South Ferry at 9:25pm. But you won't be taking the MCI Bus, Did I say BUS??
AND FOR YOU BUS FANS, we will be getting off at Eltingville at 7:51pm for a ride back on the X1 express bus. They depart Richmond Ave Terminal at 8:00 arriving 6th Ave CPS at 9:22pm (you can get off anywhere along the run). The next bus is at 9pm, too long a wait if we miss the 7:37 train.
COST:
Ferry FREE,
St. George SIR $1.50 outbound or transfer within 2 hours.
SIR Eltingville and Tottenville FREE
X1 $3.00 (no unlimted passes) if you paid St. George we just miss teh 2 hour transfer limit.
For those returning to St. George instead of the X1 $1.50 SIR at St. George but free transfer in Manhattan.
Please feel free to comment or make suggestions. This is just off the top of my head.
Thanks.
Believe it or not I used to work at the Burger King in Eltingville and was a manager there too. They have the $.99 Cravers Menu now so things won't be that expensive.
OK bus fans here's a "Field Trip" for you. Gary & I asked Lou to work in a MCI Cruiser ride back to the City. I'm looking forward to it !
The ride over on the SI Ferry should be very enjoyable too ... you'll just have to tollerate the subway portion of the trip ;-) Actually, if you haven't done SIRT before it's more like a LIRR ride once you get past the first few stops. The last one, so few use it that parking on the street is enough. Lou grew up on SI so he's a very knowledgeable tour guide, and this time we won't have to try & see the points of interest in the dark :o)
I would very much like to see a bunch of you join us, as most of 60 odd SubTalkers I've met are from the subway side of this site.
Mr t__:^)
im up for it-as long as it doesnt affect my job-email me witht e trip details and meeting point:
pingu45@aol.com
Hi.
I HATE to say this. I changeing my posting handle. Because. The name is under my OLD AOL Screen name(Now it's my mom's). Was use when I first join Bustalk. NOW I now changing it. And this one is under my AOL Screen Name(MTAboy99). My new handle name is going to be:
(Q46 Nova RTS#9288)
It's still the same OLD Me!! Just my name change.
Who were you?
I used to be Orion5 #135.
You should have gone with "Q46 TMC#8396" :-)
But I suppose anything is better than an "Onion"....LOL!
Who knows there MAY be a change coming soon...for me. And to give a hint it'll be someone who I rode on today. I'll say no more :)
B37#896Gary
Am getting of room in my apartment and am selling 16 of my Hot wheels RTS buses. They are:
8 of the orignal design (city gazette on the back in blue)
8 Tattos-6 in white and 2 in orange.
All buses are in good condition-except for a bit dusty and will be cleaned before i sell them. I decided not to go through ebay becasue i know there are collectors here.
Pirce i am offering is $40 totalicomes out to about 2-2.75 a bus.
These CANNOT be found in stores. If interested, email me at pingu45@aol.com. SERIOUS BUYERS ONLY-CHECKS ONLY!!!!
Thank you
Hmm...E-mail me; I may want to talk turkey with you on those.
-Fred
While on vacation in Florida this past week, I saw a former NJT Eagle, complete with the familiar triple-stripe and shadowed "NJ Transit" lettering, on roads within and near the complex of Disney theme parks. It has the name "Bethany" in VERY large letters and current fleet number 306.
At the time of each sighting, I was driving or being driven in the opposite direction, so I couldn't get close enough to find out where the bus is now based or what its NJT fleet number was.
That didn't take long, did it? I'm surprised that someone picked up one of the Eagles that quickly. Then again, most of them were retired about 6 months ago...
While touring the Disney-MGM Studio in Orlando the other day, I checked out the "New York Street" area. It includes two blocks of a simulated Manhattan or Brooklyn street, plus one block of a simulated London street.
In addition to a theater, a police car, some semi-realistic architecture, a very fake-looking subway entrance, and the "Youse Guys Moychindice" store, there's a stupid-looking "bus" painted in the now-ancient NYC Transit two-tone blue scheme and labeled "METRO Transit Authority."
Is that thing a real bus? Couldn't Disney have simply bought a scrap NYCT bus?
I am not sure of this but don't quote me. A few years ago - I think back in 98-99, when I was down there in Disney, I was on the MonoRail to Epcot. I looked out the window and on the main road leading to the Kingdom was a RTS that had the NYC MTA blue stripe around it but not any MTA or NYC decals. It's rear door wasn't like the other busses there where they open like the front ones but it was like a NYC style rear door. It's electronic destination sign wasn't working b/c it had a piece of paper in the front window for the destination. Is this an EX-NYC MTA RTS? It was around the time when the 81 and others were being retired.
Also, It is interesting to note that Disney has new TMC and NOVAS in their fleet but their destination signs still use the Vulton ODK like the 81 RTSs in NYC with the rolling code for the route. Why wouldn't they get the Luminator or Others?
"Is this an EX-NYC MTA RTS?"
Were there amber emergency lights on either side of front destination sign ?
Bill "Newkirk"
I believe so.
That detail, while most people think is a definite sign of a bus being from NYCTA, is also found elsewhere I hate to say.
Boston MBTA has those lamps but with green bulbs.
And last year one showed up around Disneyland in southern California. I, myself thought it was somehow an ex-NYCTA bus. But checking the serial number, it was a former Imperial County Transit bus from El Centro, California!!!
I've seen them on NYC buses, on SEPTA buses, on Miami Dade buses. What are emergency lights for exactly? I mean, what kind of emergencies? Is it like when the police is needed, or otherwise? I remember seeing an emergency service bus for SEPTA in service one night. What is that for?
Houston also used to use them on GM fishbowls....and they were NOT emergency lights. They would flash to indicate that the bus was an EXPRESS bus. (I worked for a charter company out in California thatbought thee SDH4502's from Houston...the switch on the side control panel that turned the lights on/off was marked "Express Lights".)
The lights on the Miami Dade buses next to the front destination sign actually are not emergency lights. They are turn signals.
BIG AL
To expand on my inquiry: the bus I saw on "New York Street" resembles an old 30-foot Chance bus (of the type previously operated in Suffolk County), except this one was 35 feet long and had a flat front. As I said before, it looked stupid.
[Also, it is interesting to note that Disney has new TMC and Novas in their fleet but their destination signs still use the Vultron ODK like the '81 RTSs in NYC...]
Very true. However, Disney has also acquired at least one Nova LFS with a 10-inch-high Ballios sign. The low floor and wide front door should help cut down on dwell times; the large, bright sign will enable assengers to actually see where the bus is going.
The Bee Line Route 3 is now Running with Articulateds just on PM Runs from Right now. Any Day now.Bee Line Could make all runs Articulateds.
BTW.Route 3 is going to be one of the Routes that NEVER ran Articulateds before. At the most when the 2002 Batch of Neoplan AN460's comes in. Anouther Route that I hopeing for to be All Articulateds is Route 42.
I haven't ridden the 42 in many years, but I remember it having lots of twists and turns. However, ridership on that route is probably heavy enough for an artic. I don't expect to ever see any artics on Bee Line's route 8.
Wayne
Every day when I in school in New Rochelle on Main St. I see 2 Buses run on that Route doing Midday Hours. I see 1 Flxible Metro and 1 MAN Artic. 42 is a FUN Route with the Articulateds. EVEN when you sit in the Rear end of the bus.
BTW. I wounder why I keep seeing Orion5's on 42 every AM Rush. I keep seeing it for about 3 Mouths aready.
That doesn't surprise me. The one time I took Route 3, the bus was nearly standing room leaving White Plains, and that was about two years ago.
2 Years ago. It was running 40 Foot Buses. As of 2/19/2001. It would run Articulateds sometimes. And the same thing with the 62 EXPRESS.
I am exhausted so I will post tomorrow. Read the Acela and subway posts on SubTalk. I already posted those but my fatigue is getting to me.
Sorry.
At around 5:30pm (don't know the exact time), a car crashed into a N.J. Transit Flx Metro. The car hit the bus from the rear. The accident happened on 7th & Market Streets. Judging from the witnesses, the bus was about to pull out when the car failed to stop when it crashed. The bus suffered minimal damage, the car was totaled in the front, and no word on the condition of the driver of the car. I'll fill in the details when I hear it on the news.
According to a Jackie Gleason Depot newsletter, The Orion 07.501 (VII) is still coming to the TA for an in-service testing.
Looks like the TA went back on its word about this bus. I hate to will anything negative on anything, but this bus better not pass the in service test. After the Shaker Table incident, I'm not going to be too comfortable riding this thing. The though of having the walls come down mid route tends to scare me just a little!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
nyc probady don't want it after it is tested.
Let's hope not; it's an ugly excuse for a New Flyer clone. While OBI is a NY native, they really need to look into something more suited for heavy use. Personally, I think NYCTA needs to stick with the RTS.
-F.
what orion should do is to redesign the bus to look complete
different.
I agree wholeheartedly; as it is now, the bus is a step backward concept and design-wise from the Orion VI.
The only thing is that they can't call it the orion VII. What a waste of a number! I just wish they could do some slight modifications, like give it a slanted roof to match the destination sign and bigger rear windows.
Yeah...that would be nice. On that note, thank GOD NovaBus is cancelling the awful-looking LFS and developing an new low floor bus.
-F.
The TA really had no choice since these buses are being paid for by the great Mr. Pataki. This buy NY crap is really getting on my last nerve. Orion can't build a decent bus and Bombardier can't build quality trains. I mean this is really making us look bad as a state that is looked upon as the leader in so many industries. I beg to differ. Anyway, TTC went through the same crap where the Ontario government wanted to help ease the financial problems of Orion and so they were stuck with this massive order for the then to be built Orion VI which when they got the prototype it was 3 years after the fact. So we are now in the same arena as fars being guinea pigs for an unproven product. I wish there was a way for us to get out of this contract and go to another manufacturer for these buses.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
www.transitworld.org
True, I tend to agree with you on your total response. Meanwhile, while in Baltimore on Monday, Like stated in a previous post, that NovaBUS and Volvo are teaming up together for a new Low Floor coach, thus Nova scrapping the whole Low Floor RTS deal. So lets hope that whatever Nova and Volvo comes up with is worth while and may, just maybe the MTA will look upon it.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I agree; just because it's from your own backyard doesn't make it the best. Example: The Gillig Phantom has been produced in Hayward, California since 1980; however, from that time up to now, the majority of TAs went with Grumman 870/Flx Metros and RTSes. And, despite the untimely demise of Flxible, they still swear by those two bus designs to this very day. Same with all those Roswell rockets that do the streets of NYC a LOT more justice than a native Orion any day.
-F.
LOL! Since when has the TA ever done anything logically? It doesn't matter if the bus passes the in service test or not they'll probably place an order for about 800 of them regardless. Hell, send them all to 126 and assign them to the M15. This way we'll all make overtime by having to follow each bus down Second Avenue and pick up the pieces that fall off. :^)
I'm sure that they'll have Orion do some modificatiosn on the design. After all, it was just a prototype of a brand new design.
I doubt they'll modify the design, they'll just make it a tad stronger, which isn't saying much, and then they'll send the poor mans C40LF into NYC for in-service testing.
Give the bus a thicker roofline profile (i.e. the Orion VI) and larger mezzanine area windows, not to mention improving the vehicle's structural integrity, and it MAY just work out fine.
it will still look like the new flyer c40lf.it new york
ever buy it they mite think it is one of the new flyers.whick
cause it to break down alot.
Hey, does anyone have a picture of the Orion VII? Thanks
B61 Leonard
I posted Acela and Subway (R142A) yesterday, here we go with the buses.
Walked across Central Park on Tuesday (too nice of a day to ride an artic across town). When I exited the park at 79th and 5th, RTS 6360 was on the M4. I had never seen this bus but I have learned that is the RTS electric hybrid.
BTW: When I started my walk at the planetarium (81st and CPW), an artic was waiting to cross Columbus Avenue. An artic paralelled me the rest of the way to 3rd Avenue (my destination) but I doubt this was the original bus but probably the one behind it.
On to the R142A (read on SubTalk). While walking down Madison Avenue, I saw RTS 8292 running uptown on the M2 displaying the LIMITED STOPS PR sign. Has this not been deleted yet?
I saw Orion VI 6355 at 92nd and 5th Avenue running on the M3.
Took RTS 5128 on the M103. I like the 5000 Series RTSs.
My travels the next day were limited to the subway and the Acela but I did ride WMATA Metro-E 4003 once I got home.
Though we thought that the M14 would not see the days of Articulateds after the findings from before. I got word that the M14 WILL STILL see Articulated buses, just not as soon as we thought.
Likely scenario is that when the 100th Street Depot reopens and Hudson Pier Closes, Quill will loose the M79 and M86 as Articulated routes to 100th Street. At this time, the M23 will be the ONLY Quill Artic route until the next order comes and at that time the M14 will being using Articulateds.
Route per garage scenario will look like this for the Manhattan Depots (Once 100th St Is Open and Amsterdam is Closed):
Quill:
M6, M8, M9, M10/M20, M11, M14, M16, M21, M22, M23, M27/M50, M30, M34, M42, M104, X90, X92
New 100th Street:
M72, M79, M86, M96, M98, M102, M103, M106
126th Street:
M15, M31/M57, M35, M66, M116
Manhattanville:
M2, M3, M4, M5, M18, M60 (Possible Movement back to MCH), M101
Mother Clara Hale:
M1, M7, Bx33 (Possible Movement of the M60)
Bronx Adjustments:
The M100 Will Move to Kingsbridge; The Bx6, Bx15, Bx19 and Bx21 will be more that likely moved to the new Coliseum.
Coliseum movements are going to vary based on the fact that some of the old Coliseum routes are now Articulated routes and Coliseum is not slated as a Artic Depot.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Trevor, The new 100th Street is suppose to be an all articulated depot only with the following routes:M79,M86,M101,M102,M103.
In my opinion the TA should make the following moves:
M2-Manhattanville to Mother Clara B Hale
M10-Michael J. Quill to Mother Clara B. Hale
M96/M106-Michael J. Quill to Manhattanville
M98-Michael J Quill to Manhattanville
M66-126th Street(TA) to Michael J Quill
M60-Manhtattanville to 126th Street(TA)
x90/x92-Michael J. Quill to 126th Street(TA)
M100-Amsterdam to Kingsbridge
M 104-Amsterdam to Michael J Quill split with Manhattanville
All Hudson lines to Michael J Quill
Thank You
NOT ALL LINES out of Hudson will be run by MJQ.
In my opinion the TA should make the following moves:
Q32 should be run by CS ONLY!!
M11 out of that New Depot split with MJQ.
X25 Out of MJQ instead of UP.
M60 should be split with 126 and MCH.
Keep X90 and X92 at MJQ.
M104 should be split with MCH instead of MV.
M98 should be out of KB.
M4 should be out of KB.
[X25 out of MJQ instead of UP]
All X25 trips are made by X27/X29 runs that are returning to Brooklyn anyway. As a result, the cost of running the X25 is approximately zero.
If it were assigned to MJQ, it would require buses and drivers above and beyond what the X27 and X29 use.
I disagree with the X25 routing. The X25s are deadheading Expresses going in the opposite direction. It saves money then for UP to keep them. Let UP keep it or let YUK take it since both will have busses deadheading to midtown in the afternoon for the rush and deadheading back to SI & BKLYN in the morning from the rush.
X25 carrys Passengers. I guess it must be a EXTRA Run for drivers going to UP. How about X25 be Split with YUK so like that we have MORE MCI's on there. That will be COOL!!
X25 MCI D4500 #2800
The X-25 is not a seperate table. The X-25 works in conjunction with the X-27 on one table. Drivers going back to Brooklyn operate in service via X-25 between Grand Central Station and Battery Place then run light to depot or next trip to Manhattan.
In the PM rush drivers are pulling out light the depot or from Shore Rd to Battery Place then in service via X-25 to Grand Central then light again to E 57th/Madison. The route can not be split with Yukon because it will be a mess because if you have to change schedules for the Yukon line then you have to change the schedule for the Brooklyn line as well to maintain the X-25 schedule.
However what the TA should do is to create a similar service from Penn Station to lower Manhattan with Yukon equipment and have a combined fare for LIRR and NJ Transit passengers.
Thank You
A Route from Penn Station to Downtown NYC is great!! It would charge $3.00 to ride that route. Not only Passengers from the LIRR and NJ Transit would use it. QM23 Riders would use it also.And people that use Amtrack and Tourest that comes to the city and needs to get to Downtown to get to the Hotel and don't want to pay $10.00 for a Cab Ride to Downtown. I name that route X26.
Southbound routeing.
It would run from Javits Center to South Ferry.Crosstown on 34 St to the FDR Dr. Then EXPRESS from 34 St to Houston St. Then Houston St to Broadway. Broadway down to South Ferry.
Northbound routeing.
From South Ferry to Javits Center. North on Broadway to Greenwich St.Greenwich St becomes Trinity Pl. Trinity Pl to Worth St.Worth St to Centre St.Centre St to Houston St.Houston St to FDR Dr.EXPRESS from Houston St to 34 St.Crosstown on 34 St to Javits Center.
Hours of X26 is going to run.
Monday-Friday 7:00 AM-8:30 PM
Weekends 10:00 AM-9:00 PM
i can get from penn station to south ferry in like 15-20 minutes on the 1 train for $1.50. And if i am coming off the LIRR, don't i get a free transfer as part of my monthly LIRR pass, thus not wanting to pay $3 for an express bus that may take 2 hours to get where it's supposed to? (I could be wrong about that one).
The only real problem might be the 34th street crosstown. That street is sometimes really backed up, especially around Macy's, that it might take the bus 15-20 minutes to make it all the way crosstown. the benefits would be an A/C bus, seats (unlike the subway) and cleanliness.
The FDR drive is occasionally backed up. The bus would have to use the service road until 14th street (since no buses are allowed on the drive until like 23rd)
I personally think you should have it run down 9th Avenue from 42nd Port Authority to 34th. Much more ridership there. Maybe even give it it's own lot to make it easier for commuters.
I don't think it makes sense to use the FDR at all. It's quite a bit out of the way and it's very often slower than the avenues. If the B/O is offered any leeway in the routing on the nonstop section (I don't know if this is generally the case), leaving it to the avenues offers more flexibility to find the quickest route given traffic conditions.
"The FDR drive is occasionally backed up. The bus would have to use the service road until 14th street (since no buses are allowed on the drive until like 23rd)"
The X25 gets on the FDR northbound by the Bklyn Bridge and the X5 and others run from South Ferry on the FDR until like 23rd, etc.
Barry, I agree with you 100%. These moves would actually make sense. Therefore, don't expect to ever see them come to fruition.
Thank You for your kind words.
Your comment describes New York City Transit. If it makes sense then do not do it.
Regards
[Route per garage will look like this for the Manhattan Division....]
Everyone here should take care when making blanket statements like that. True, some BusTalkers may have close contacts within Transit's decision-making circle. However, circumstances can change at any time, so that nothing is official until it's made official. (In this case, route assignments don't truly become official until the union formally accepts a pick reflecting them.)
In the absence of anything official, and no matter how reliable the "inside" source, any discussion of route assignments is pure speculation and should be worded as such (e.g. "if it were up to me").
Trevor,
Unless you omitted the Q32 in error, it would appear Stengel(Qns/ATU) would pick up all the runs from the OA/TWU side.
Wow. Amsterdam is closing? For the first time ever, the M104 will no longer be king of the depot. (But at least it'll get a break from the awful Orion plague that struck it a few years ago.)
Don't say that so fast, I can easily see the Orions heading to Quill (NOT SAYING THAT IS GONNA HAPPEN), But it could easily happen.
More than like, some of those Orions may return home to Kingsbridge.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Even if they go to Quill, there will still be lots and lots of RTSs to go around.
I don't mind seeing an occasional Orion for variety. I do mind a route getting nothing but Orions. If only the M104 could get its venerable fleet of 5200-series New Looks back.
This was my LI BUS ride yestrday with noticeable problems-please help:
N23-ORION V_CNG #314
Nice ride-the driver even waited for me cause he saw me runnig for his bus-it had no working AC and he was sweating. He told me that he likes the older Orion Buses but not these.
N40 Orion V-CNG #274
AC worked. Nice ride from Mineola to Hempstead-driver wasnt talkative much as this bus was nice to ride.
N91-Orion V #603
This was a smooth speedy ride along Merrick Road-working AC on it.
The noticeable signs i saw was #581-its back looked different then the other Orions-whats up with that and why are there still orion buses saying MSBA on them?
Also, at JFK airport, i saw a 3 door bus operating via American Airlines shuttle. The numbers were in the #9400's series. Are these test models, or are they the future at kennedy,and what models are these?
The new buses seem to be having A/C problems. Saw two new 300s with no working A/C today. They are quite rough with the A/C on. QSC Orions use the same engine but they have no problems and run smooth.
LI Bus maintainance is terrible. See even the new buses are having problems! Saw Cummins bus 173 on the N23 this evening broke down on N.Blvd. Plus the traffic is terrible on the N20/21. There was no schedule this PM rush they just came when they came. My N21 (315) left Flushing at 6pm (supposed to leave 5:40pm) which had A/C until Roslyn, the driver shut it off (after seeing 173 broke down). The trip from Flushing to Sea Cliff took 90 minutes.
I know I've been blaming Cummins for awhile but after getting the new buses I can see the problem is not with Cummins, rather LI Buses poor maintainance. NJT has Cummins in some of theirs and they have no problems (and the ones I rode on ran fine). I rode on an RTS on 171 last year and the Cummins was quick, smooth and responsive. Some people say some of NYCT's RTS have Cummins and they are fine too.
The CNG's need TLC more than diesels and LI Bus just isn't giving them enough. Out of the LI Bus fleet the diesel Orions run the best with the best A/C, because face it, diesels can take the abuse a little better.
As far as 581 is concerned it is one of diesel Orion buses with a Series 50 engine in it, thus it's shape is different from it's 6V-92 counterparts.
If any of you have been by the LI Bus depot at Mitchel Field you'll see the new (well new to them) equipment that they are just about to put in service ... anyone want to take a guess at what thay are ?
Mr t__:^)
Hint 1: I'm fooling with you guys, however there is a new (to LI Bus) form of mass transit parked on their property.
Hint 2: Some say it was coal powered, other say it was always diesel powered.
Answer Monday for those that can't do a drive by.
Mr t__:^)
OK, I saw what is parked outside the LI Bus facility. Not to give it away yet, I will e-mail Thurston with the answer.
I haven't been by there in a few weeks. By new equipment do you mean something other than an Orion V?
Sounds like some antique is there. I'll try to take a look tomorrow.
Rich, Went by the site & saw what's there.
It has nothing to do with LI Bus ... that's the fooly part, but it is on the LI Bus property ... well maybe technically.
The Steam Engine 35 folks have apparently got permission to park their two 2900 serices coaches & two cabooses on the track that run right thru the LI Bus property. That track hasn't been used for anythin in a while. There was a truck parked over the track on the other side of the road & I'm sure they had to clear the track ways in the road of dirt, etc. Point is it wasn't a simple move.
I now have to call my friend at LI Bus & tease him about this stuff.
Mr t__:^)
I know I've been blaming Cummins for awhile but after getting the new buses I can see the problem is not with Cummins, rather LI Buses poor maintainance. NJT has Cummins in some of theirs and they have no problems (and the ones I rode on ran fine). I rode on an RTS on 171 last year and the Cummins was quick, smooth and responsive.
[It's also a different Cummins engine. The LIB Orions have a Cummins L10G, while the NJT buses have the Cummins C8.3. That said, though, I have to agree about NJT's maintenance. It's far superior than even SEPTA's.]
OK, I've often blamed the Cummins engine in the CNG Orions we have for LI Bus problems. But now that lots of the new 300s are here, and have observed many problems with them. The A/C is not working on many of them. The rear door sometimes doesn't open or is difficult to open. And the engine is rough (it feels like a freakin vibrator!).
And I've even seen some engine problems such as overheats and stuff like that.
So this explains it. If the DD Series 50G works fine in other places (like QSC's Orions) and has a problem at LI Bus, the problem is WITH LI Bus.
So the Cummins L10G may also be just as good as the Series 50. Has Gleason had problems with their Cummins powered Orions? Or Fresh Pond with their RTS's 9140-9149? Or NJT which uses Cummins in their RTS's and some Flxibles? No, just LI Bus.
To think about it, the fault is not with Cummins, but LI Bus. After seeing all the new 300 series probs we're having, it definately convinces me that LI Bus mechanics got their training from VANDELAY industries! :-0
Over at NJ Transit, the Cummins engine seems to do just fine. On the 1994 Flxible METRO "D" buses, the HVAC units were hassles in the beginning but all bugs were worked out and the buses seem to runs next to problemless. The 1995 and 1999-2000 Nova RTS are Cummins powered too, the issue with the Novas and its the 1999-2000 Novas is serious electrical problems and there were a couple of incidents of cradles droping out the buses, but that's not a Cummins issue, that's a Nova issue.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Interesting information. I am curious and maybe you can answer this for me. How come there are so many 1999-2000 Nova RTS's from NJT at the various Cummins/Onon engine places at both Zerega Avenue and the one near the Turnpike? I see this buses on the constant getting engine work done but I am curious as to why.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
www.transitworld.org
Last time I'd talked to NJT Fleet Operations about the Novas (Which was about month ago on that subject), Nova had decided to back up the cradle issues. However since the Cummins engine is sitting on that cradle, to some extent it has become a Cummins issue. In short Nova and Cummins are working together to get that Cradle issue resovled.
I noticed that too myself, the last time I rode over the Cross Bronx Expressway (last Saturday), I saw about 3 NJT Novas at the Cummins Onan Facility. However, the funny part is that I rode past the Newark/Kearny Cummins Facility and really couldn't see any Novas sitting in the lot, unless they were on the bays inside.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Trevor and DaShawn, Over here some of our Bus companies put out service maintainence contracts to approved Dealerships. They sometimes have more modern diagnostic equipment for the more modern buses. Do your MTA's do something similar in NY.
For the most part, yes. Like if their is a serious engine problem that the TA's can't handle and that engine is still under warranty it will get sent to its "vendor" so to speak for its repairs.
If its structural or other things under the warranty it'll get sent back to the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) for its repairs. However NovaBUS, MCI and New Flyer sends out a team technicians out to the properties for certain warranty repairs. As for Orion, for the most part the bus gets sent back up to the Orion plant in Oriskany.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
What the heck is Vandelay?
Vandelay-a fictional company made up by "George" in "Seinfeld".
They manufacture latex in a tiny apartment on W. 81st Street.
>>What the heck is Vandelay?<<
Have you watched "Seinfeld"? Well, in this episode, George was collecting unemployment and his unemployment was trying to run out, so he told the unemployment office clerk that he had an interview with "Vandelay Industries", a company he made up. He said that they dealt with latex, and...just watch the episode.
Do any of you NYCT drivers have to deal with "pop and drop"? This is a phrase which I made up, which refers to cars pulling ahead of buses, then drop off a passenger at a bus stop moments before the bus arrives. This is very common on the LI Bus routes like N27 and N21, where employers are dropping off their housekeepers at bus stops just before the bus gets there. Most drivers do not stop for "pop and drop", I believe it is against the rules. It is dangerous too, as the car can jump in front of the bus, then it has to stop short. Some of these domestic worker employers are very aggressive with their cars and try to get the bus to stop. I remember one indident where the bus was just pulling out of a stop when the car cut in front of it, then dropped off the worker. The driver did the right thing and DID NOT pick them up.
Personally I'd like to see tickets given out for this dangerous behavior. And these snobby-ass SUV driving employers who try to cause accidents should just DRIVE THEIR EMPLOYEES HOME!!!
It happens on occasion. Depending on the circumstances, they'll board or not. When someone cuts directly in front of me as I'm pulling away from the stop, there's no way that person boards the bus. However, if they arrive before I get there, it's of no consequence to me how they got to the stop.
There are times when a vehicle will "bully" the bus and hold it in the stop via cutting in front, slamming on the brakes, and angling in front. If I'm in the stop, with the doors open, I'll gladly board the passenger. If I've already closed the doors and started my actions to leave the stop, I would not board the person.
I can empathasize with someone trying to "make a bus", but not at the expense of my safety, or the safety of anyone standing who might be forced through the front window, or slammed against the farebox because of the drivers selfish actions.
Just another day at the office :-)
Would you feel any differently if your bus was the last bus for four or five hours?
An anecdote:
A friend of mine just missed a Greyhound bus out of Ithaca. Seeing as it was 90 degrees (although it had been snowing one week earlier, on Mother's Day -- this was in 1996) and my only source of air conditioning was in my car, I agreed to drive her to Binghamton, an hour away, so she'd have at least a chance of making her bus. After speeding down the back roads and finding the bus getting ready to leave, there was no way I was going to let that bus sneak out just yet, so I blocked it in. The driver wasn't pleased but he did let my friend on and even opened the luggage compartment for her.
Everything is situational, David. I might or might not feel differently if I was the last bus of the day, however we're not Greyhound, and most of our buses run 24 hours a day. The trips are short enough so if the individual "misses" the bus, the car they are already in can take them to their destination. We're not talking about someone walking to the bus stop here.
The lines I work have a 3-7 minute headway. There's no excuse for compromising the safety of others (or themselves, for that matter).
#621 at Queens Center yesterday on the Q88.
Driver hit gas instead of brake while parking.
Daily News story
One time I was on an N72 from Babylon to Bethpage and I was very impressed with a certain find. There were automated announcements of every single stop, and a digital sign up front to match! Kind of like the R142 subway cars, in a way.
So how does the the system know where you are to make the announcements? How many busses have this feature?
:-) Andrew
The announcements are done by computer code. The stops are announced by the mileage of the trip which is hooked into the tires. go 1 block and the next stop is announced.
The problem is if you have to go off the route the system will not work as it is timed to the mileage of the route.
An example Route N-5(not a real route) destination Rockville Centre
Stop is Merrick Rd/Village Ave. After the stop it will say Merrick Rd/Park Ave which is the next stop and block.
Hope this helps you.
Thank You
This is the first time I've heard of an announcement system that works completely automatically. On most buses (such as the NABI's and Neoplan Artics in Philadelphia) the driver pushes a button when the bus leaves from a stop and the system announces the next stop. It's not even "automatic".
I wounder if the SEPTA ElDorado's and New Flyer D40LF's would have it.
Every new SEPTA bus - including the Eldorados and New Flyers - will have an automatic stop announcement system. The cutaways, of course, do not.
Thanks.
I think SEPTA should Retro fit the Cutaways with the Talking Systerm and the Rebult Neoplans too.
Those automated announcements should also be retrofitted onto The K cars and The B-IV's as well (more on this in SubTalk).
To an extent, it is automatic. IIRC, SEPTA's system is satellite based, and during some early morning periods, has to be manually operated. It's not even at the same level as the automatic stop announcement systems in LI, WMATA, and now Baltimore.
Do SEPTA have to put a Satellite Dish on top of every bus to work?
There are no satellites on SEPTA buses as far as I can tell. A regular antennae probably does the trick.
Who Knows. GO ask my HMO this.LOL.
That brings this to my mind, what is that trapazoid shaped thing for on the roof of the NABI buses?
That, my friend happens to be the GPS antenna. The antenna does not have to look like your DirecTV dish in order to pick up the signals.
That's interesting. So the automated system uses a GPS system, yet it is never in use anymore. I had always thought the driver actually pushed the button to make the announcements.
Every time I've ridden a Septa NABI, the driver has had to push a buttton for the next announcement. Considering the number of drivers that don't even bother using the announcement system and Septa's history of maintaining electronic gadgets, (such as the failed Neoplan DK rear route sign experiment) I doubt that you'll be able to see the announcement system in full automatic mode any time in the near future.
Well, that's because in Center City (where there are tall buildings), the GPS would be unreliable. They push the buttons whenever the buses are in that area anyway, the GPS will work in the suburban, Northeast, and any other area where GPS signal reception is not a problem.
Your example of N-5 reminded me to ask this question.
Thursday morning, I noticed a LI Bus parked on Sunrise Hwy in Rockville Centre with the destination sign reading "N65 Fulton & ..."
I didn't catch what came after Fulton. Is this one of LIB's school runs? Does anyone have the list of LI Bus destination signs?
Thanks,
CG
WMATA has it. Don't know how it works. Also, SEPTA buses have it but it is activated at each stop by the driver, if at all.
some septa buses need the (a card) to make announcements automatic.
I think the WMATA uses a GPS system. I heard about it on buses at the NABI site.
I don't think so. I've seen the driver reset the sign when it was off.
Just saw Bus 364 going uptown on Madison Ave. Its been a long time since a 1985 GMC/RTS-04 was seen in Manhattan.
Thank You
What route was #364 was on?
The front sign said "Mid-town Only" . It was not an computerized sign and I was walking on the west side of the street and did not see the side sign which was on the opposite side of the street . Had no idea what route it was on.
Sorry.
Guess it had good air conditioning.
Today is HOT!! HOT!! HOT!! in NYC. It's 88 in NYC and I rode Buses and Trains today. Heres what I got on.
And just to tell you that most of it is Trains BTW. So NO HARD TIMES WITH THIS!!
(E) R32 #3660.
Took that train from Union Turnpike to Roosevelt Ave. The AC was on and it was PACKED. I got the Railfan Window all the way.
(G) R46 #5580.
Took that train from Roosevelt Ave to Queens Plaza. The Window was not with paper on the window. BUT a guy have his back on it and I have to look over his side of his head just to look out. The AC was on.
Q101 Orion5 CNG #401.
Took it from Queens Plaza to 2 Ave. By time I got there. It just finsh loading a W/C on to the bus. The AC was on and it was COLD!! And this shows that QS Orion5 CNG's is better then the LI Bus Orion5 CNG's. (In the AC Department BTW).
M15 Nova RTS#9072
Took it from 60 St to 54 St. The AC was on BUT not too much was comming out. I met up with my dad about 5 Minutes after I got off that bus.
(E) R46 #6021.
Took it from Lexington AVE to W 4 St. It was PACKED and the AC was on. I got a seat by time that train came into 7 Ave.
(A) R44 #5301.
Took it from W 4 St to Hoyt St so like that me and my dad to walk the Brooklyn Bridge. The AC was on and the Ride was not bad.
B51 TMC RTS #8535.
After looking at shops on Canal St. I took the B51 from Bowery to City Hall. The AC was on. The bus ride went FAST!! And this is not even Repowered yet.
(R) R46 #5703.
Took this from Whitehall St to Queens Plaza. The AC was on and not even Standing room only after 34 St.
(E) R32 #3402.
Took this from Queens Plaza to Union Turnpike to get home. The AC was on.
The Buses that I saw would be on a diffent post.
I'm new to this board, so I don't know much about the people who post here. Why are you riding all over NYC transit, Q46 Nova RTS#9288?
I live in NYC and I mainly ride it in Queens and in NYC.
Queens is in NYC. I won't even start talking about the kid who didn't know what a borough was...
Here in New York a lot of people consider Manhattan the City. He was probably referring to Queens and Manhattan, thats how I interpreted the post.
Peace,
Kevin
Same here. I just thought I would point that out for future reference. Not being from the NYC Metro Area, I often interpret NYC as all 5 boroughs.
I KNOW THAT!!
I just thought I would point that out for future reference. Not being from the NYC Metro Area, I often interpret
NYC as all 5 boroughs.
Um, well, I guess that kid is me....
It was someone else. He was telling me how he knew more about roads and navigation than me (he doesn't) and then how he had been to all 5 "whatever you call thems" in NYC. I laughed and told them what they were at which point he acted as if he knew all along.
Technically speaking, Queens is one of four counties on Long Island. Contrary to popular belief, Long Island includes Brooklyn (Kings County), Queens (County), Nassau (County), and Suffolk (County).
New York City, as a reference, tends usually to mean Manhattan (New York County). Of course, New York City comprises 5 boroughs- Staten Island (Richmond County), The Bronx (Bronx County), Brooklyn (Kings County), Manhattan (New York County) and Queens (Queens County).
You'll also see a sign off the VZ bridge which state(d):
"Welcome to Brooklyn, the 4th largest city in America".
Brooklyn is not a city :-)
I never saw #501 yet. BUT I ask Bee Line and Bee Line told me where it is right now.
"Currently, the pilot bus (#501) is being evaluated at the Federal Transit Administration testing facility in Altoona, Pennsylvania. We expect it to be there thru the end of June."
I ask them if they have a photo of that Neoplan. And hear what thay say to me.
"I'm sorry but we do not have a photo of the new bus. It was decaled with our new logo layout when the bus was here in February."
I wounder if anybody have a photo of the Neoplan AN460 for Bee Line?
Bee Line even told me when the Other 68 Neoplans would come in.
"The production run of the 68 Neoplan artics will start some time in the later summer with delievery expected this fall."
Now I going to ask Neoplan if they done with the Articulateds for Bee Line.
They even told me what routes they going to run.
"Although final decesions have not yet been made, I expect that, at the very least, nearly all of the buses on Routes #20 and 40/41 will be artics."
Also Routes 7 and Route 60 would run the first batch of those Neoplans. And they told me to check back with them on July 1 for Updates on the New Articulateds.
I wish I had my camera when I saw 501 in Exton, Pa. (near the Neoplan parts facility in Honey Brook) a several weeks ago, but unfortunately, I didn't. =(
what feature does the bee line artic has?
Here we go.
I saw a brand new MCI D4500 #2160 "NIS" on 2 Ave.
I saw a Orion5 #411 on M101!! That bus was carrying Passengers and I guess MV must have been short of buses.
I saw a Repowered TMC RTS #85xx on B51. I know the first 2 digits are 85 BUT I don't know the last 2 since I saw it went by QUICK!!.
Orions on the M101 run regularly. The M101 has several Amsterdam runs so those have the Orion Vs on them.
Well. On rosters it says M101 as MV NOT Split with AMS. I never know that. BTW where did you get this from?
Buddy Boy: M101 is also from Amsterdam spilt with Manhattahville Depot just for AM shift also you know that Bx3 spilt with Kingsbridge Depot in AM shift????? Well i will be report an ridecheck this monday at Amsterdam on Bx3 & yesterday i had a Bx3 from Kingsbridge Depot too. BTW I already know most of routes that have spilt between two Depots. Any way i gotta report to Kingsbridge Depot at 6am today.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation
OK. But I just woundering. That is M11 is Split with MV? And M14 Split with 126? I saw a 1984 GM RTS out of MV on M11. And saw 2 GM RTS's out of 126 on M14. All of those buses that I saw was on a Saturday.BTW. I got on one of the GM RTS's out of 126 on M14.
43xx just transfers from 126th st Depot to Hudson Pier Depot for 82xx couple months ago & last monday i was at Hudson Pier Depot doing Checker than i saw few 43xx with 126th Street Depot logo on it & look to me that they don't have time to put Hudson Pier Depot logo on it. Today i only spent 4 hours working an checker at Kingsbridge Depot & this monday i will be assignment a checker at Amsterdam Depot from 0500am to 0930am.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation
Here's that inventory list of what I saw those 2 days:
Thursday: 8402 9439 9398 8449 8427 4431 903 8000 9600 4639 4653 4633 4723 4741 8536 989 884 5004 4709
Friday: 9361 3981 3980 3969 9578 229 4936 4944 5061 8139 4676 8014 668 9379 9378 9373 9355 8396 8391 8389 8387 8378.
BTW: Does anybody know the status of bus 8375? I know that's been out of service for ages now but does anyone know what happened to her?
Q46#8396Gary
Q58#8014Gary
The same thing is done on the M4 with the split between MV & MCH
I Know that.BUT I never saw a Orion5 on M4 YET!! I would have to do that one day. BTW. Did they use the Orion5 Suburban on M4 when it was at MCH?
M4 Orion5 #122
They probably did when 120-125 was there,plus best time for seeing an Orion V on the M4 is during rush hr (both am & pm).
Here's what I had yesterday:
Started off with 1169 on the Q60 from 48 St -going ever so slowly down Queens Blvd due to the heavy police presence due to jaywalkers and speeders. Got off at Queens Center to try and get something faster:
So I took the Q88- Bus 9371. Rode pretty good and the a/c was kicking. Standing room only from 108 St-Kissena Blvd. Got off at 164 St to catch the Q65. Got 434. Not only was the bus fast but it was kicking speed. Got off at Union Tpke to catch the Q46. Got 3977. Also had the a/c on but it looked like junk. It had not only the MTA on the back but also the old NYCT Logo where the advertisement would go. Got off that to get to school/work:
3pm Started another brief trip: Got 523 on the QM1- again the a/c was kicking and so was the bus on the LIE-passed 561 on the QM2 which was going so slow for some reason-driver should be working for GBL :)
Then after flying into Manhattan-I was forced to get off at 6th Ave and 36 St. Driver gave me a transfer to continue on my way to 56 St and 6th Ave. Since I don't take Express Buses that much, I decided tow ait for another bus to take me up to 56th St. 550 whizzed by me on the QM2A. Then 535-the bus behind 523 was going to take off 1st. Got on 535-slower than 523 but again the a/c was kicking. Got off at 56th St to meet up with a friend of mine to go back to Queens.
My friend wanted to take the Subway-I wanted to take the bus. I decided to take the subway with him-bad mistake. He took the 6 downtown at 5pm- an R142A came in-7287- the PA System and display were not working and the train was a sardine. We let that 1 go and got on 8668 which was also a sardine. Got off at 42 St and got the 7 Express to 61 St-got car 9641 and on the Express Track it was so slow. However, there was much more breathing room on the 7 Express at 515 than on the 6. Got off at Woodside to backtrack to 52 St to my station-got on car 9571 and again the a/c was kicking.
Thursday I took a little trip too and it was also mostly trains:
Started off with 9353 on the 7. Got off at GCT to walk around. Then took 6 1 stop Uptown on 8619. Got on E train 3372 to go to 42 St.
At 42 St I walked back to 7 Ave to get car 8967 on the 2. Got off at Borough Hall in Brooklyn-and then upstairs for a breath of air. Had my lunch then walked around until I hit the Transit Museum where I picked up a collector's item or 2-like the WestSide Depot Decal.
Snapped a few pics there and decided to head back to Queens to go to SJU. Took A train 4055 to 42 St to transfer to the E train to get to Union Tpke. Had car 3745 same consist as I had 3372. VERY FAST MOVING train to Union Tpke where I got off to catch 8358 on the Q46-which had no pickup whatsoever.
Going home I had 4905 Q46 kicking speed and a/c. Caught E train 5660 to Roosevelt to get G train 6254 to 46 St. Got off and walked home from 46 St and Broadway since the Q104 was on tome for a change. Saw tons of buses and I'll post that on another post.
Q46#4905Gary
QM1#523Gary
Q88#9371Gary
Q65#434Gary
SUBTALK LIVE TOMORROW
May 12, 2001
7:30 PM ETBusTalkers are welcome, too!
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Hi. I've seen some old Manhattan bus maps on this site, but are there any old Bronx bus maps? Being I live in the Bronx, I'd LOVE to see one. I heard at one time, there used to be a bus, possibly the BX8, that ran on Burke Avenue. I used to live around there, so I'm just curious. I usually post on Subtalk, but buses are cool, too. I LOVE the X1 route from Staten Island to Manhattan.
While working an Traffic Checker on Bx3 from 179st/Broadway to Riverdale/238st & i had a bus GMC-RTS #4372 second half. When we took a break after finish the trip & i went over to driver seat to check how many miles this bus had. Guess what GMC-RTG #4372 have 1,046,001 millions miles boy that a alot of miles & been running since 1986. Also i had #4608 first half & that bus have 352,259 thousand miles. BTW saw Articulated buses #1077, #5440, #5460, & #5471 on Bx3. Any way i gotta work report tomorrow morning at 6am at Kingsbridge Depot.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation
I just check out the timetable for the Buses to Jones Beach. And it do not shows Route JB24. Withch runs from 165 St Terminal to Jones Beach. I wounder what happin to that route that LI Bus have to stop running that Route? Is it Ridership wise or Lack of Buses?v Or just LI Bus was TOO Stupid to run that Route?
It's probably just a seasonal route that hasn't started yet; kinda like the Bx5/Bx12 Orchard Beach service.
Not that. It starts May 28 and on the Timetable for the Jones Beach Express Service. I would have to send you a link to see it.
I believe the JB24 is discontinued. Two routes run to Jones Beach, the JB50 from Hicksville and the JB62 from Freeport. The JB50 is a joke with less than 8 runs a day. The JB62 is better. Taking the bus to Jones beach is the WORST. LI Bus must still be trying to keep Moses' ideas about Jones Beach alive by running overcrowded and infrequent service to Jones Beach, encouraging people to drive.
I say the hell with Jones Beach I take the N15 to Long Beach which runs very frequently. I like Long Beach better, anyway.
I just came across my copies of the 1998 and 1999 Jones Beach bus schedule. The JB24 ran in 1998 but did NOT run in 1999. I don't have a 2000 timetable, but I'll bet it didn't run in 2000, so it is unlikely we will ever see it again.
It won't,there hasn't been no signs at the 165th St.Term or along Hillside Ave mentioning the route for the past 1and half /2yrs.
That's right, this bus gets 500 miles per day. It's on a run that lasts from about 6-2am. It does this run everyday during the week and does other all day runs on the weekend. It's had this run for over a year now, thought I'm pretty sure it didn't work it ALL the time, but when it doesn't work this run I've seen it on other all day runs. This bus will average about 150,000 miles this year, THREE TIMES the Metro average. I will be checking up on 4541 to see how she is doing.
Is that one a Transit Articulated or a Suburban Articulated? And what route do that bus mainly runs?
500 mile that's alot of miles for a bus.
SUBTALK LIVE THIS EVENING
May 12, 2001
7:30 PM ETBusTalkers are welcome, too!
SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. This is our first chat. Subsequent chats may be held depending on this week's success. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
As in any Internet forum or chatroom, certain polices and rules need to be created and enforced. SubTalk Live is no exception. The following policies are in effect at all times in the chatroom:
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3. OPs will be the sole people in the chat to deem a topic off subject although others can ask the OP to look over a topic. Even so, the chat should allow for some other topics (within reason).
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When will it be held this year? And will it be at Howell Garage?
Howell Garage, June 16th
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Does the #67 or 139 stop near Howell Garage for passengers?
Route 67 & 139 stops right in front on the Garage!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The Grumman bus look like the Flxible is this bus made by Flxible?
The original model was the 870, made by Grumman, which encountered lots of problems. Eventually, Grumman sold its bus business to Flxible, which made changes to that model and renamed it the Metro. The 870 and Metro look alike, just like the GMC RTS looks like the TMC RTS and the Nova RTS. Only we busfans recognize any differences!
Actually Grumman buses were Flxibles. Grumman bought Flxible from Rohr which had been the previous manufactures of Flx's. Grumman later sold the Flx bus division after the many problems it had.
There's a good explanation here; Grumman Allied bought Flxible from Rohr in 1977, shortly before the release of the Flxible 870 in April 1978. By that point, the final production version was known as the Grumman Flxible 870; it featured Grumman emblems outside, and the only indication that it was still a Flxible product was on the build plate above the driver's area. The Grumman 870 was produced from 1978 to 1982.
Due to engine cradle failure and other design problems, the bus was redesigned throughout, yet still retained the same basic design. Released in 1982, the redesigned bus was called the Grumman Metro.
The changes are as folllows:
-Two-piece opening windows (as opposed to the large, smooth, one-piece windows of the 870)
-Tri-color taillights for improved visibility (the 870 only had red stop and signal lights)
-Faux gunsight-style crosshatch "grille" panel between the headlights, similar to that found on Dodge Ram pickups (the 870 has a smooth, flat panel)
-Availability of the 6v92/8v92TA engines (previous models only offered the 6v71/8v71 series)
-Polished metal grab rails throughout the bus (as opposed to the integrated rubber-lined assist handles throughout the 870)
-Round flourescent tube lighting over the seats (as opposed to the large, backlit ad space panels througout the 870).
Also, starting in 1983, the Flxible emblem returned to the outside of the buses, although Grumman still owned Flxible through 1986, when they were bought by General Automotive Corp., who owned them through 1996 when Flxible went bankrupt. The 1983-96 versions are known as the Flxible Metro and underwent many more changes throughout that period while still keeping the same basic design.
Hope this helps; it's a basic spotter's guide to two of the best-looking buses ever made.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
P.S.: Our museum has recently restored a 1979 Grumman 870. To see it, visit us at www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
The back of the 1974 AM General looks like the back of the 1977 Flexibles New Looks that NYC had.
This is very true; actually, the AM General shared several parts with the Flxible New Look, including drivetrain, wheels, taillights, and rear bumper. As a result, it is no coincidence that the rear of our WMATA AMG bears a slight resemblance to the NYCTA Flx New Looks that you mentioned earlier.
-F.
Speaking of WMATA AMGs, there is one still parked in the Fort Totten lot. Are there any plans for it's future, or is it used for something?
I'm not sure, but I do know that ours (no. 7535) has not run in a while and may need some parts. I think the one at their garage is part of the Historic Fleet but am not sure. Anyone know the status?
-F.
SUBTALK LIVE IN SESSION
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BusTalkers are welcome, too!
SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. This is our first chat. Subsequent chats may be held depending on this week's success. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
As in any Internet forum or chatroom, certain polices and rules need to be created and enforced. SubTalk Live is no exception. The following policies are in effect at all times in the chatroom:
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While at Jamaica LIRR station I saw all of Green Lines RTS's with all open windows, only Orions had A/C. Do their RTS's even have A/C?
Also rode N20 321 from Greenvale to Roslyn, and N21 322 to Sea Cliff. No A/C on both buses. Also saw 180 with all windows open.
Now I know why I didn't take the long bus ride from Queens. My patience for LI Bus is shot. I'm taking the LIRR more often now.
It seems only NYCT can get it's A/C act together with the buses.
All RTS buses are manufactured with a/c. The problem is company maintance. A company like MSBA is luckly to have their buses make it to the terminal without breaking down, let alone have workable creature comforts such as heat and air conditioning when needed! How do you think the drivers at Green and MSBA feel? They have to work in those deplorable conditions all day. Then the pubic at large complains about surly bus drivers. Isn't there a correlation between how one's company treats their employees and how the employee relates to the public? Think about that the next time you complain about a surly MSBA driver on this board.
That's what I figured. Green's problems don't suprise me, they are indeed very poorly run. But LI Bus (MSBA) is run by the MTA and should live up to the standards of NYCT buses.
That may be true in theory, however the MTA treats LI Bus like the step-child of the system, at least compared to NYC Transit and the railroads. In fairness, though, a large part of the blame falls on the anti-transit politicians who run Nassau County.
I suspect the funding sources for NYC Transit and LI Bus are quite different, even though both are operated by an arm of the MTA. While a good chunk may come from the Federal and/or state governments, there is a local share. Given Nassau County's fiscal problems in recent years, it is not surprising that funding for LI Bus is not on a par with the funding NYC Transit/NYC Bus gets.
Those bastards! They should be shot. How can one be anti-transit in politics? Must be right-wingers.
[All RTS buses are manufactured with a/c]
This is not entirely true. Many of the older RTS orders from Boston's MBTA did not include air conditioning. I think the "T" has retrofitted some of the older RTS's with a/c, but some of them still don't have it. I'm less sure of this one, but I think some of the Chicago RTS's came without a/c.
Didn't GBL'S 1000 series (RTS 3) have no a/c? I remember riding on most of those oven boxes sweltering.
Q60#1001Gary (OLD)
I'm quite certain Green Line's 1000 series RTS's came with a/c. Must have had the same great maintenance back then that they have today!
I believe that is correct. Some of the GMC RTS buses ordered by the MBTA came without AC. I'm not sure how many were ordered without a/c.
The TMC and Nova models did come with a/c. In the early to mid 90's the MBTA did install a/c in all RTS that had none. They even had a promotional campaign, with newspaper ads and ads on the back of buses to announce that all T buses would now have a/c. Appropriately, the campaign was called "Ice- T" .
There was a period of several years (late 60's until the mid 80's ) that the MBTA did not order any buses with a/c, I believe maintainance costs and issues were among the reasons for this. Most of their fishbowls, the AM Generals, and the Flyers all came with no a/c. I'm sure someone who may have better info as to why the MBTA didn't order a/c for years can clarify/correct my info.
Mark Watson
Yes I lived in Chicago all last Summer. Most of there buses have no a/c. It was a cost issue that caused them to not buy buses with ac. It also caused them to not buy buses. There route from the Blue Line to Wrigley Field was on a Fishbowl. I dont think Transportation there was the cities top priority until now.
Didn't the slant back RTSs not have A/C? I remember seeing a lot of slanters in Philly years ago.
All of the slant back RTS's did have a/c. The a/c system in the slant backs was not that great, largely because of its design to fit in within the slant back design. I recollect the main reason GM switched from the slant back to the current design was to accomodate a larger/better a/c system.
Yeah, and if you saw the SEPTA RTSs, there were vents in the back of the bus.
why did the old rts have slant back with in circle vent.
The RTSs were RTS II-03s, and they suffered the air conditioning problems of old RTSs. So, I guess before the put on the overhead units, the old RTSs just used rear airconditioning. Oh well, that was before I was born anyway.
do you know what engine they have.
that probaly explans why they wer vents in the back of the in the interior.
The circle, or "The spot" as I called it when I was a young buck, was a door to acess the a/c equipment for maintenance. Someone on here posted about this, and went into a little more detail. Your question about the engines:
As delivered:
8000-8264 CTD T8W-603 DDC 6V-71
8265-8284 STD(Red Arrow) T8J-603 DDC 6V-92
4458-4470 STD(Frontier) T7W-603 DDC 6V-71
After their '88 Overhauls, they were all re-equipped with 6V-92 engines and of course the assignments were changed.
what does the 6V-71 engine sound like?
what does the 6V-71 engine sound like?
It sounds like... "Rrrrrrrr"
;)
Have you ever seen those movies where a Fishbowl pulls out of a bus stop and the engine starts roaring? Or some of those old Sesame Street episodes where the cardboard bus pulls out of a stop and the engine is heard? That is what a 6V71N sounds like. It is Hollywood's favorite bus engine for sound.
do you know what kind of transmission does the rts have.
RE: SEPTA RTS buses - I know it was an Allison transmission, but I can't recall if it was a 3 or 4 speed. I think it was a 4 speed, but don't hold me to it.
It was the 3-speed Allison V730
i remember that the transmission 4gears Allison V730 just like the 1982 neoplans.
i think the transmission sound like one of the nabi's but with another engines.
The 1982 Neoplans had a 5-speed (not sure the model number) but I can tell you is that the model number did not begin with "V-..." because all of SEPTA's Neoplans were/are T-drive (and that includes their new AN460 articulateds).
V drive, T drive, what's the difference?
V-drives are more complicated than T-drives and it is easier to get more gears in a T-drive (there wouldn't be much room in a V-drive because the of severe angle transition).
If it was the 5 speed then it most likely was the Allison HT755
Thanks. I usually don't know the model numbers on the earlier transmissions, but I can tell who was the manufacturer.
I always wondered what transmission that was. It didn't seem like an Allison because it had a toggle switch instead of the traditional Allison gearbox. The HT755 was the standard transmission on the entire PennDOT Neoplan order, as I understand.
Well, I think that Allison didn't debut the keypad until 1985 (the 8600-on up), which reminds me, does Allison offer a "mechanical" shift handle (as an option) along with the electronic keypad? If you're going to retrofit a newer transmission onto, let's say, a Fishbowl, a keypad would look out of place. Thanx.
i think it is The HT755.
btw 3 eldorado's ,1 nabi,and 1 neoplan was spot on the 105 today
#4531
#4547(eldorado's)
#4540
#3244
#5318
You know, I have yet to see an El Dorado on the 105, and I live right by the route a few streets over. However, I know that EL Dorados would be perfect for Saturday service, since there is hardly ever ridership (like the 95!) on Saturdays, not even by Ardmore, IIRC (once I took a 35ft Neo from Villanova to 69th Street terminal for fun-it wasn't really comfortable sitting on those hard seats-the El Dorados are more comfortable, I sat on one for about 30-40 minutes without bum ache). I've noticed that the 105 only uses newer Neoplans now (3000 series) unlike the 95 probably (I only rode it once today), where I rode bus numer 8869.
You know, I have yet to see an El Dorado on the 105, and I live right by the route a few streets over. When do you see these buses? However, I know that EL Dorados would be perfect for Saturday service, since there is hardly ever ridership (like the 95!) on Saturdays, not even by Ardmore, IIRC (once I took a 35ft Neo from Villanova to 69th Street terminal for fun-it wasn't really comfortable sitting on those hard seats-the El Dorados are more comfortable, I sat on one for about 30-40 minutes without bum ache). I've noticed that the 105 only uses newer Neoplans now (3000 series) unlike the 95 probably (I only rode it once today), where I rode bus numer 8869.
Are those RTS engines the same as teh WMATA? They sound like they have 4 gears?
how many does a nabi have??
A NABI (Ikarus) has an Allison World B-500 5-speed transmission.
no think they have a allision world b-400retarder 4 speed transmission with overdrive when it reach 40mph.
I'm not sure if The Allison V-731 was the original transmission in SEPTA's RTS fleet before the engine upgrade, but after the upgrade, it did have The V-731.
The bigger issue was where some of the AC components were located. The condenser was next to the radiator in the engine compartment and overheated regularly. The original sytem was also fully automatic - all the drver had was an on/off switch, and the system reacted to a pre-set thermostat that could only be adjusted by a mechanic. If it was set at 72 degrees, then the system generated heat or ac until it got to 72, then went into a "maintenance" mode, only blowing enough air to keep the temp at 72.
When the "squareback" 04 was introduced in 1980, the condenser was moved into the new housing, away from the engine, similar to where it was located in a New LOok (upper rear window). The driver was given a bit more control - they could now select heat or ac, not just "on".
The actual body of an RTS is still to this day the slantback. The squared cover is just a large fiberglass cap that fits over the components, but the actual stainless steel module is unchanged from the original RTS.
NYC Transit's RTS buses have had fully automatic HVAC (with only an on/off switch, which has a red cover over it) since the 1981 RTS II-04s.
David
You can still order the automatic system, but a lot of operators weren't too keen on it. Automatic systems tend to have "hot spots", where the r thermostats think the temp is ok, but other conditions in the bus say otherwise (sun through the windshield, heavy use of the defroster, etc.)
You could order the RTS's without any A/C and some systems did. Erie Metropolitan Transit Authority was one that ordered RTS's without A/C in 1980. (They also ordered Neoplan AN440's without A/C in 1983).
All of SEPTA's RTS's were slanters. When the A/C units failed on their RTS's, instead of retrofitting a squareback unit and bodypiece, they have retrofitted Sutrak roof-mounted units (despite the fact The Neoplan AN435 and 440's had them first, The RTS retrofit actually started the SEPTA tradition). It was cheap, but it actually worked.
SUBTALK LIVE THIS SATURDAY
May 19, 2001
7:30 PM ETBusTalkers are welcome, too!SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. In fact, our last chat had a variety of bus related discussions. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
As in any Internet forum or chatroom, certain polices and rules need to be created and enforced. SubTalk Live is no exception. The following policies are in effect at all times in the chatroom:
1. ANY public transit related topic can be discussed (bus, subway, or railroad).
2. It is requested that you use your handle as your chat nickname.
3. OPs will be the sole people in the chat to deem a topic off subject although others can ask the OP to look over a topic. Even so, the chat should allow for some other topics (within reason).
4. Anyone who disrupts the chat in any way (scrolling, profanity, obscene remarks, constant chatting off-topic) will be punted.ARE YOU READY TO SUBTALK LIVE???
Just go to http://www.subtalklive.com and join in! If you use mIRC, do your thing!NOTE
It is strongly reccomended you enter the room and troubleshoot BEFORE Saturday night!WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU!
I have now basically finished the NJT Bus Fleet with the exception of a few demos and private carrier buses. The new buses are on the site below and be prepared for 2 surprises(and I don't mean the IBOAs). I have also begun making GIFs for the Coach USA Companies while moving Community Coach Buses into their proper spots.
Note:Coach USA Buses are list in ABC Order of operator instead of manufacturer.
http://www.geocities.com/njt4148/busgifs.html
Whenever I read the posts, I hear the term "local" and "express" buses. According to your definitions, a "local" would have hard fiberglass seats and an "express" has cushioned seats. Now being from Philly, my question is would a SEPTA Suburban Neoplan AN440 with soft seats be considered an "express" in your neck of the woods, or is an "express" more like The N.J. Transit Flxible Metro that runs into Center City? Forgive me, but I've don't know what these terms mean. Thanx.
To be perfectly honest with you, the NJ Transit Flxible Metro is more of the express bus if anything.
I tend to use the terms "Transit Version" and "Suburban Version" over the Local and Express definations.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Thanx for explaining that Trevor. I'm just getting used to the NY transit jargon.
It's tough when SEPTA doesn't really have any special express routes, other than the express version of local routes.
NJ Transit has a similar situation with local/express routes. And all of NJ Transit's buses currently have cushioned seats, even the transit buses. The "express/suburbans" just have higher seat backs.
Up until last year or the year before, a handful of the former NYC Grumman-Flxibles still had the hard blue seats. Most of the others had them replaced with cushioned seats. The 1981-82 Flxibles, purchased by PANYNJ for NJT had hard brown seats, similar to PATH seats.
septa has express version of routes such as the 80,120,and 123.
The only true "Express" routes in the SEPTA system are the 124/125 between King of Prussia and Center City Philadelphia. Some people could put the 123 between 69 St and King of Prussia in the "Express" category, but the 123 makes local stops along West Chester Pk between 69 St and Mercy Haverford Hospital.
No, I actually think the 123 is really an express route. It makes those stops, but it only picks up passengers from 69th street to Lawrance Avenue or whatever it's called. Therefore, you can't take that bus from 69th street to those points. You have to take it all the way to another point in the King of Prussia area. Same thing in the other direction. I think the true express route is actually the 80, from Olney to Horsham. The 124/125 actually make local stops until probably about Gulph Mills, then it would be express, so I think you are basically right about that, but the 123 is more of an express route than the 124/125.
i think the 124-125 is a expreess bus
Reading your description of SEPTA route 123 got me to thinking that the LI Bus Routes that travel into Queens County might, technically, be considered express routes because they do not pick up passengers in Queens when Queens-bound, nor do they discharge passengers in Queens when Nassau County bound. But the fact that they run local in Nassau County probably disqualifies them as expresses. Years ago (and perhaps today too) the N2 and N3 PM buses could be pretty much expresses, because they did not discharge passengers in Nassau County until they reached Meachem Avenue and Franklin Avenue, respectively. (I believe the AM buses did pick up passengers along Hempstead Turnpike).
[...the LI Bus routes that travel into Queens County might, technically, be considered express routes because they do not pick up passengers in Queens when Queens-bound, nor do they discharge passengers in Queens when Nassau-bound.]
"Express" implies an extended non-stop segment, which is clearly NOT the case. The term you're thinking of is "closed-door," meaning that the service is "closed" to intra-Queens riders; all passengers boarding (or alighting) in Queens must cross (or have crossed) the border. Note that the same restriction applies to the N15, N33, and N69 within the City of Long Beach, to avoid conflicts with Long Beach's own routes (and even though the N69 is operated by Long Beach).
The only exceptions to the closed-door-in-Queens policy are the N31, N32, and N33 within Far Rockaway; they ARE allowed to carry intra-Queens riders. (Compare with Westchester County 60/61/62 along Boston Road in the Bronx.)
"The only exceptions to the closed-door-in-Queens policy are the N31, N32, and N33 within Far Rockaway; they ARE allowed to carry intra-Queens riders."
I HATE to say this. This policy is for ALL LI Bus routes that run into Queens. EVEN N31,N32,N33 and JFK Flyer is in the policy.
"Note that the same restriction applies to the N15, N33, and N69 within the City of Long Beach, to avoid conflicts with Long Beach's own routes (and even though the N69 is operated by Long Beach)".
Nope.The Policy is Queens Only and N15 and N33 could pick up passengers with in Long Beach and N69 also.
BTW. Wtat is Long Beach Transit? What Buses do they run? And any photos of their Buses?
I don't know about the N31/32 from first hand experience, but can definitely say that the N33 handles intra-Queens passengers.
CG
[Closed-door in Queens....This policy is for ALL LI Bus routes in Queens, EVEN N31, N32, N33, and JFK Flyer is in the policy.]
My understanding of the policy, from speaking with LI Bus drivers and former LI Bus planning staff, as well as seeing several intra-Queens riders, is that N31, N32, N33 buses ARE allowed to carry passegers within Queens, due to the lack of NYCT or other bus carriers on the streets in question.
On my most recent LI Bus ride, several weeks ago, two people boarded an N91 at JFK Airport and got off on Hook Creek Blvd (still in Queens), while three others boarded at North Boundary Road & Farmers Blvd and got off at the Postal Facility - i.e. they rode entirely within the airport!
The other exception, which I neglected to mention earlier, is the section of Jamaica Avenue/Jericho Turnpike between 225th and 256th Streets. For those 1.5 miles or so, the center line of the street IS the municipal border, with the eastbound lanes in Nassau County and the westbound lanes in Queens. As a result, BOTH the Q36 and N24 are allowed to operate OPEN-DOOR on BOTH sides of the street. (Yes, officials of both unions have complained about that, to no avail.)
-----
Keep in mind that both NYC Transit and LI Bus are operating agencies of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the STATE (!) of New York. As state agencies, BOTH have legal authority to operate and serve passengers on ANY bus-capable street ANYWHERE within the 12-county MTA region. (Compare CTA and Pace in Chicago and vicinity.)
[On my most recent LI Bus ride, several weeks ago, two people boarded an N91 at JFK Airport and got off on Hook Creek Blvd (still in Queens), while three others boarded at North Boundary Road & Farmers Blvd and got off at the Postal Facility - i.e. they rode entirely within the airport!]
Last time I rode the N91 was from Hempstead to JFK, and I have a recollection of seeing some JFK Flyer signs at bus stops in Queens on the way to JFK. This would suggest that passengers in Queens can get on the N91 and get off in Queens. I contrast this with the LI Bus routes that serve Jamaica and Flushing. For example, I believe you see the N4 signs along Merrick Road in Queens only headed eastbound, but no signs for the N4 heading westbound toward Jamaica (although the N4 will stop to discharge passengers at the Q5 bus stops).
for a septa an440 subarban i probaby have to sad yes.
This Morning.
I was on the M5 and saw Northbound side of Broadway closed for a Street Fair. The Buses have to went this way. Normal Route to Columbus Cricle. Go on CPW to 66 St.66 St to Broadway.Normal route the rest of the way.
This Afternoon.
When I was going to get the Bus at 3 Ave. There was anouther Street Fair and I saw a noitce saying that the M101,M102,M103 Buses are running on 1 Ave. The Reroute went like this. Normal Route to 42 St. Go on 42 St to 1 Ave.1 Ave to 57 St.57 St to 3 Ave. Normal route the rest of the way.
was watching Out for Justice with Steven Seagal tonight on Ch 9 and noticed 2 buses in the the background scenes.One was a TA RTS-04 or early 06 and a Command TDH-5307 GM fishbowl(the old hi 200's series)It looked like one the buses that used to run on the 100 and once in a while the express routes that ran up Woodhaven to the LIE(BQM1 etc and soforth).
Awesome! Hey, I was just getting ready to report that I saw an episode of "WKRP in Cincinnati" this morning on TNN; as the show opens, we learn that Dr. Johnny Fever has to crash with Bailey for a while, much to the amazement of their co-workers. Meanwhile, as his temporary yuppie replacement is about to spin a new tune by the Go-Gos (a great remember that the episode took place in 1981), A Queen City Metro 800-series Flx New Look rolls by outside the Flim Building.
Every time I hear "Our Lips Are Sealed" by the Go-Gos, I always remember that episode and that Flxible cruising by. In fact, I'm listening to it right now; I still have the song on an old(!) vinyl K-Tel album. I just can't get it out of my head!
-F.
what's is the a card??
This bus is now fully repwered. Guess what route it was on????
B46#8330MikeLimited
An Ex-Castleton TMC repowered already. That's great!
what is it repower too
"Repower" is when they replace the engine and transmission with either an updated version of the original drivetrain, or a completely new drivetrain altogether. A classic example is SEPTA Neoplan 3414. 3414 had it's 6V92TA and ZF replaced with a 50-Series and an Allison World B-500 (the only 3000-series bus that has an Allison now). It doesn't have the rough idle like The Ikaruses (Ikari) due to improved counterweighted crankshafts, but it still packs a punch (despite it being 4 cylinders). Currently, 3414 is at Comly.
Wow, I wish I could see that bus. I never even heard about it. Hey, does it run with clean deisal or whatever? Oh wait, actually, I think I saw it one day a few years ago in Center City. I heard a bus that sounded like a NABI, but then a Neoplan passed by, and there wasn't a NABI in site. My mom and I had looked at each other, saying that it was a strange sounding bus, at least a strange sounding Neoplan. How long ago did they do that?
they repower it in back in 1994.
No, it was repowered back in 1998. The Ikaruses did not appear until the Fall of 1996 (The first ones had to go to Atlanta to cover The '96 Olympics). As much as I'm not a fan of The Ikaruses, not only they haved served this city well, they also have served our country (and that The Ikaruses can be proud of).
What other SEPTA Buses went down to Atlanta? The Buses that I know that went down to Atlanta is NJ Transit 1983 Flxibles. I wounder if MTA NYC Transit send some of the Grave Yard Bound 1981-1982 RTS's down to Atlanta?
NYC Bus sent some of the Nova RTS's in the 8750-9249 order; I forget exactly which numbers. I believe they actually went to Atlanta straight from the Nova factory, so that they ran in Olympic service before they ever entered service in NYC.
Maybe someone has the numbers and can give them to Trevor for TransiTALK rosters. I certainly want to know.
The Olympic Novas were 8900 to somewhere in the early 9000 Series, like 9020, I believe!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Weren't there some Triboro Coach and Green Lines RTS used too? From what I remember, 2803 and 2811 from Triboro and 1153 from Green have a little square plaque on the side of the bus that said served in the 1996 Olympic Games. Since 2803 has the repiant and I don;t see the plaque. However, 2811 may still have it on her. 1153? Not sure-I assume it's still there too.
Q18#2811Gary
Q60#1153Gary
Did these buses keep their respective Logos/Paint schemes when they went to Atlanta? If I was there and I saw a bus that said MTA New York City Bus, it would be weird.
Also, did they program the electronic signs for the routes or did they use placards in the front of the bus - like when the destination sign is down?
The sign were programed the sign. I use to use them on the B74 when I drove it no Saturdays. Some sayed Atlanta Olympic, Atlanta Airport, Atlanta Hotals, & some other but I don't rember them. The buses were also bran new in there NYCTA colors, but do not have a plate on them.
Robert
Is there still those signs programmed in them?
I wonder if the same thing will happen in Salt Lake at next year's Olympics. It would be rather interesting to see some non-Utah TA buses out there.
Well Nova is still in Roswell right?
Also, they can send the retirees there or if some are still in the scrap yards in tact, then send them there. If they die there, may they rest in peace.
Only the Ikarus buses were in service at the Atlanta Olympics. AFAIK, the buses went straight from the factory in Alabama to Atlanta, then on to Philadelphia after the games ended.
A DD50 engine instead of the 6V92TA engine standard on most of the pre-1994 RTS buses.
oh!!
Any info about the opening of the Coliseum Bus Depot.When will it open and what buses will they be using. Thanks in advance
From what I heard, Coliseum is supposed to open sometime in 2002 (was supposed to be THIS month, but was pushed back because of construction problems) and is to have RTS buses mostly (they WERE supposed to get the sh*tty Orion VIIs). As far as the bus lines, I heard the Bx19, Bx6, Bx15, Bx21, and most of the old Coliseum routes. E-mail me with corrections or additional info (carlwal@hotmail.com).
CWalNYC
You can see progress of Coliseum Depot by taking the 2/5 trains looking between 174St and West Farms Square. It coming along well.
Bx19#6062Mike
Today. I rode some buses.
Here we go.
Q10 GM RTS#248
Took that from KG to Metropolitan Ave. Pretty EMPTY the Bus was. About 10 or 11 People was on that Bus. And it show good speed comming down the hill on Lefferts Blvd. The AC was not on but did not feel HOT. And no windows where open.
Q54 GM RTS#3921
Took that from Lefferts Blvd to 129 St. The AC was not on and the windows where open.
Q54 Nova RTS#5068
Took that from 129 St to Lefferts Blvd. The AC was on. Smooth ride that bus have.
Q10 Orion5 #5508
Took that from Metropolitan Ave to KG. The AC was not on and the Windows where open. And that bus was makeing the "Soot" Noise. That's a odd noise for a Orion.
Some of the 5500s at GBL make that soot noise-5503, 5508, 5510-5511, 5536, 5538, and 5547. Had 5545 Q60 today sign was not working-what else is new. 700 Q38 the guy I was on usually gets 2057 and that bus is annoying. 4045 Q46, 8358 Q46-imposter 8858. 8389 imposter 8386, 8370 and 9054 Q17. Took 7 train home from Flu-shing and got R36 9545-1 word to describe that: UGH!
Q38#700Gary
Q60#5511Gary
Q46#8358Gary
Q17#9054Gary
I saw #9185 on Q54 this afternoon. I notice that #9185 is out of FP but before it was out of 126. Can someone tell me why #9185 is doing in FP?
Q54 Nova RTS#9185
Maybe they needed another bus in service there at FP because they're short-especially since the 3900-4100s are departing there. Only 5 or 6 are left?! Other than that-who knows-that's the MTA for ya.
Q58#9185Gary
9185 was always at FP. Take it from the person whose Bus Talk handle is the former route # of the Q54.
Could be.
One bus that was at FP briefly was 9040 or 9050. It went to MaBSTOA Bronx division.
9040 is at ENY,9050 however is at KB;but do not remember either of these buses ever at FP.
It was 9050.It was there about 3 weeks.
Which route(s) did it run on?
I spotted it on the Q59.
I saw it laying over at 64th/Grand on Sunday on the B57.
Typo: meant to type "one Sunday".
I got a pic of it on Trip Tuesday on the Q59.
Q59#9185Gary
Have You all noticed that the RTS in new york and many others have modified doors?
Modified doors? Are you sure it isn't the MBTA with modified doors? The rear doors on the MBTA RTSs look quite different than any other system's. I also have found the MBTA often is in a class of its own when it comes to certain things.
How are their doors different?
It is easier to show than explain. Look at this photo:
http://www.geocities.com/tt_0052001b/ASantiago/MBTA_TMC_0119.jpg
See how the door opens?
well, the doors aren't open in that picture, but they look like standard-issue RTS pantograph doors to me.
well the doors in the center of the bus lokk different to the front doors
well the doors in the center of the bus look different to the front doors
Ahhh, ok - now I know what you're referring to.
Around 1983, the pantograph rear door was slightly redesigned by GMC, and the change resulted in the door being slightly extended from the body, as compared to the previous fully-flush rear door and the front door. Pantograph rear doors have been that way ever since, through GMC, TMC, and Nova.
Irf you're referring to the flat inset push-type rear doors, as opposed to the pantograph air doors that NJ Transit uses, they were originally developed for NYCTA's first order in 1981, and were made a regular factory option afterwards.
"they were originally developed for NYCTA's first order in 1981, and were made a regular factory option afterwards."
Not Ture.
WMATA where the first one's with the flat rear door when WMATA order RTS's back in 1979. THEN MTA NYC Transit got theirs like that and so on.
Well, not really. THe WMATA RTSs originally came with pantograph rear doors, but since they were undependable as they opened and a girl fell out of them, they moved to push types. The WMATA really changed the RTSs a lot. If you didn't know better, you would call them TMC buses. Anyway, wasn't it standard for TMC RTSs to have flat rear doors?
"THe WMATA RTSs originally came with pantograph rear doors"
Are you shure they did? I would like to see a photo of a WMATA RTS with the slideing Rear Doors. And are you saying that it was a Retrofit?
"but since they were undependable as they opened and a girl fell out of them"
That must have been the Drivers Falt for doing that.
Well, I heard it here, so I wouldn't know about that. According to what I've seen during my lifetime, the WMATA RTSs always had square backs and flat doors.
I'll amend to NYCTA being the first with factory-equipped push-type flat doors. I don't believe WMATA's RTSs had lifts (I'll accept a correction here if necessary), but the NYC buses all did, thus the need to design mechanisms that held the doors open when the lift was being used.
NYCTA was the first to specify these door that are on hinges instead of "pantograph" arms. They open/shut faster, there is less maintenance, and they seem to seal better.
Long Beach Transit in California has them on most of their RTS's too.
The rear doors on MBTA's RTSs are the standard; it is NY MTA with modified rear doors.
There are about a dozen transit systems that have RTSs with the flat, outward-opening rear doors. It's becoming more popular, even though every RTS ever delivered to NYC has the flat doors.
I wish NJ Transit got their RTS with flat rear doors. To me, they look a lot better than the standard ones.
I wish NJ Transit got their RTS with flat rear doors. To me, they look a lot better than the standard ones.
You've got to be kidding. How could a door that's inset a good 3 inches from the body look better than the fully flush-mounted door that the bus was originally designed with? That flay push-type door is the epitome of the square peg in a round hole.
They may be ugly but passenger-operated rear doors (standard in NYC since before I was born) are a great deal safer than driver-operated doors. I've gotten more than one bruise boarding (yes, legally -- the line in question charges no fare) through rear pantograph doors that close with no warning.
[They may be ugly but passenger-operated rear doors (standard in NYC since before I was born) are a great deal safer than driver-operated doors.]
If I remember correctly, the 7000 series GM old look NYCTA buses were the first delivered with passenger-operated rear doors (in the late 1950's). The previous TA order, the 6000 series Macks, had driver-operated doors. These Macks were also the last TA buses ordered with cloth rather than plastic seats, although during their lives, they were converted to plastic seating.
I can believe those years. I postdate the first Old Looks by 15-20 years.
I beg to differ on the last TA buses ordered with cloth seats. The most recent TA orders have had cloth seats, although they're on a rigid base.
[I beg to differ on the last TA buses ordered with cloth seats. The most recent TA orders have had cloth seats, although they're on a rigid base.]
I meant to say "the last TA local transit buses ordered with cloth seats". I am well aware that the NYC Bus express buses come with cloth and not plastic seats. But the recent local buses are not cloth seats; they are plastic seats with cloth inserts.
I guess I'm referring to specifically the surface of the seat while you're referring to the entire contraption. If that surface isn't cloth, it sure does a good job of imitating it.
Whatever.
Keep in mind that the pantograph (standard) RTS rear doors are not always driver-operated, and the flat doors (NYC) are not always necessarily passenger-operated. Both door styles are options, and who controls the door is also an option for both styles.
In my limited experience, pantograph rear doors force their way closed when the driver flips a switch while flat doors (of the NYC variety, not the blinker-type doors I've seen elsewhere) won't force their way closed if passengers are in the way. It doesn't really matter who opens the doors, only whether they have the ability to crush passengers. (Perhaps my experience hasn't been broad enough.)
Disney Transit's RTSs have pantograph doors. I think all of them, except one or a few.
I noticed that Montachusett regional transit authority uses som RTS's with "pantograph doors" and some with the push door.
"It's becoming more popular, even though every RTS ever delivered to NYC has the flat doors."
EVERY. Not quite so. When NYC received their demo for the RTS06 HEV #9900, it had the pantograph doors. There is a picture on one of the sites, either Transitalk or one of the others.
I stand corrected. I have seen that picture and I was taken back by the pantograph doors on an NYC RTS. But, to my knowledge, every quantity order of RTSs to NYC has had the flat rear doors.
Some time ago, a Bustalker had posted that the MTA roadeo would be May 19 and 20 at Orchard Beach, the Bronx. Is this still the case? Just want to make sure before I pay a $7.00 round trip toll.
Ironic that there's no way to Orchard Beach other than by car, at least till the BX5 and 12 specials start running again- and that probably won't be till Memorial Day.
This'll be my third roadeo: In 1997, I happened onto the one at Flushing Meadow, and last year took the family to South Beach in that oppressive heat. Little did we think that would be the last 90-degree day we'd have all summer! This weekend should, hopefully, be cooler.
Will probably be there Saturday in my HONEYMOONERS T-shirt.
The Roadeo is still scheduled to be held this coming weekend, May 19 & 20, at the Orchard Beach parking lot. The festivities should begin around noon. Those coming by public transportation should take the # 6 train to the last stop, which is Pelham Bay Park, and then take the Bx 29 bus towards City Island. Ask the driver to let you off at the stop near the traffic circle next to Rodman's Neck. From there you'll have to walk roughly 1/2 mile north to the Orchard Beach parking lot.
Won't the Bx12 take you directly there?
The BX12 and BX5 only run to Orchard Beach during the "summer months",
ie, after Memeorial day.
Peace,
ANDEE
I read a memo today at my depot (MCH) that there will be a shuttle bus running from a train station (forgot which one) to the rodeo site. I do not know however if the bus is for everyone or just employees.
I think it might be Pelham Bay Park station (6 train). If it's anything like what WMATA did at their Roadeo a few weeks ago - they ran a shuttle from New Carrollton Metro to Landover Division garage - it probably will be open to the public.
I witch I could come this saturday. BUT I can't. Because I might have to go to NJ with my Grandma that lives near by M14 off Ave D in NYC. And if they have it on a Sunday too. I can't come on that day also. My friend is takeing me to his house just off 3 Ave on 93 St in NYC. And that day I also have Baseball at Riverside Park. Some of you might see me in NYC on Sunday. I be wearing a Tanktop that say's #32 on the front and would be fround rideing on M79 after 11:00 AM. If you going to see me before 11:00 AM. I be wearing a BLUE Shirt that says "Blue Jays". At that time you can find me rideing the Queens Blvd Subway line and the M5.
Effective June 3 ,2001
Northbound from the VA Hospital via Cropsey Av,7 Av,92 St,Fort Hamilton Pwy ,8 Av
Southbound from 1 Av and 39 st via Ft Hamilton Pwy 92 St,7 Av,Cropsey Av to the VA of Brooklyn
New Stops
Northbound ---92 st far side , 7 Av,ifo Victory Hospital ,
92 st Near Side Ft Hamilton wy , at the S53 S79 Stop
Ft Hamilton Pwy Far Side, 90 st
Southbound
Ft Hamilton pwy Far side of 86 st
Ft Hamilton Pwy Far side of 90 st
92 St,,Far side ,Ft Hamitlon Pwy ,,S53 s79 Stop
Staten Islanders are currently limited to taxis to get to the airport. If you had to choose between Richmond Avenue, Hylan Bouelvard, or Forest Avenue for the first airport bus, which would you choose?
In addition, how long does it take to circulate through the airport from entering until you exit? Trans-Bridge lists a six-minute time for serving the three terminals.
[If you had to choose (among) Richmond Avenue, Hylan Boulevard, or Forest Avenue for the first airport bus, which would you choose?]
The bus fan in me would probably want two routes:
1. From Hylan & Richmond via Richmond Avenue, S. I. Expwy, to the Goethals Bridge.
2. From Bay Ridge via S53 routing to Broadway & Forest, then via Forest to the Goethals Bridge.
The realist in me would understand that none of this is very likely to happen at all.
Effective April 30 until further notice
Toward Sterling Place===via Union St,4 Av,Carroll St,,7 Av,,Union St then regular
Toward Van Brunt St via Union t,7 av,Garfield St,4 Av, 3 St and regular
Bus stops will be at same location s onthe diversion route as on its normal route
Effective April 29 ,2001
Due to construction in and around Union Square Park --layover space is needed
Southbound from 146 St via Central Park South , 7 Av,,Broadway ,East 17 st,Union Square East ,,Broadway ,East 13 St, University Place ,--layover on U Place ,far side of East 13 st.
Northbound
via Univeristy Place ,,West 14 St,6 Av,Central Park South
Late nites
the M7 is extended to 149 st on Adam Clayton Powell Blvd
Effective April 23,2001 due to construction of the Kings HWy Bridge over the N BMT
Westbound
via Kings Hwy ,West 6 st,Highlawn Av,,West 9 St,,and Kings Hwy
Eastbound
via Kings Hwy ,,West 8 st,,Highlawn Av,West 6 st,Kings Hightway
Bus stops
Westbound on Highlawn Av,midblock bet west 7 and west 8 street
Eastbound
Highlawn Av ,far side of west 8 st
West 6 st ,near side of Kings Hwy
The west bound B82's are also now going by the Belt Parkway Service Road. It makes a Right on 26ave, Left on the Service read strate across Cropcey Ave into the last stop at behind the diner.
This is becouse there is now no left turns from Cropsey Ave to Bay52 Street.
Robert
Is this permanent
Steve
Yes. Unlease they put a sign it the corner saying NO LEFT TURNS. EXPECT FOR BUSES.
Robert
thank you
I rode the B41 today, bus number 3965, which had express style seats. I've never ridden a TA RTS Express. It had vinyl, high backed seats in 2-2 style, instead of 1-2 style. This was a regular local at 3:01 PM from Bergen Beach.
Flatbush Depot has several RTS buses that had their hard seats replaced with soft seats over the past few years; of these, the 4800s were the first, while they were still on Staten Island. The previous assignment for all of these soft-seaters was Ulmer Park.
David
Acutally, the previous assignment of the Flatbush 4800s is Jamaica Depot. However, they are best known as being assigned to Yukon and Ulmer Park Depots.
Mark
Whoops! That's correct...they weren't at Jamaica very long after leaving Ulmer Park before going to Flatbush, and it slipped my mind that they were there at all.
David
On Sunday I rode an express-style bus on the (Green) Q11. Having never ridden the line before, I don't know if this is standard practice, but I certainly don't see why it would be -- the Q11 is a standard local route charging a standard local fare.
Incidentally, does the M98 have soft seats or hard seats?
The M98 runs Novas in the 9500s and 9600s but they are not suburban seaters like the 1700-1800 RTSs
On the B100 which is run by Command, there are soft seaters all too often. Green is owned by the same people.
And the fare is actually lower: If you ride off-peak and pay in change.
The one time I rode the M98: Hard
My fare was about 44 cents. That is, I used a Fun Pass and entered the system nine times. (Eleven times, really, but one would have been covered by the transfer from the bus and another was the reentry to the Rockaways shuttle from the GO shuttle bus, for which I had a paper transfer that I didn't bother using.)
I didn't know Green and Command were under the same ownership.
I suspected the M98 was hard but I wasn't sure. It's one of those hard-to-classify bus routes.
I believe the M98 operates out of Quill depot. Although there are a few soft seat express buses at Quill, I have observed only hard seat (local) buses on the M98. Although one might argue the M98 is an express route, it is really more like a limited route and does charge the standard local fare.
It does operate out of Quill.
Actually, you can make a stand that it is a local route in all technicality for the following reason:
Walk down Lexington Avenue starting at 79th Street. At 79th, the M98 sign will be blue and the 101 will be purple. At 77th and 75th, there is no sign for the 98 and the 101 is blue. 72nd Street has a sign like that at 79th. Since the M98 doesn't ever make those intermediate stops, it is considered to be a local bus by those signs (blue sign). The 101 has the two purple signs since it does make those intermediate stops at times. The bus itself does display M98 LIMITED/M98 E MIDTOWN.
The one time I rode the M98, it was a 5000 Series RTS so we had the felt seats but as far as the MTA is concerned, it isn't an express route.
That's quite a technicality.
By that same technicality, the Staten Island limited routes aren't really limited routes.
Then again, many routes are limited for part of the run but not all. Many of the Manhattan limiteds make all stops at all times north of some point. The M98, for instance, makes all stops (IINM) in Washington Heights. The M60 operates limited-style in Queens and on Broadway but local-style across 125th Street. (The M60 also has the blue signs but doesn't sign itself as "M60 LIMITED.")
Today I was waiting for the s79 at 86th St. in BKLYN. The driver had pulled in and did his layover. Then he moved the bus into the stop and was sitting there for another 10 minutes while he was waiting for his departure time. There was this 83 year old woman on the bus. She became very irate and screaming at the driver because he was sitting around for 10 minutes. She was complaining that he wasn't leaving and why are we waiting. She had a docto's appointment to go to. She was saying that SI drivers have become as inconsiderate as BKLYN drivers. She kept going on and on with the driver. She took down the bus number to complain. She didn't want to complain to the supervisor across the street where the B64 stops. I was laughing and so was other customers. I wanted to say something to her but I didn't want to have her start screaming at me and give the driver more headaches. It's hard for people to understand when they are that old.
Did the driver tell her that his scheduled departure time wasn't for another ten minutes?
Are drivers authorized in some fashion to reimburse passengers who board a bus without realizing it will be held for a while and wish to opt for some other mode of transport (foot, cab, subway, or another bus route)? Passengers who don't regularly ride a line may not realize that the bus won't be pulling out right away.
I don't think yelling is appropriate, but I can certainly understand how a passenger would be mighty peeved by a delay of this sort.
Put it this way. When I was a driver and people started to yell at me about when I was going to leave or why I was late, I would just look at them like they were crazzy and keep on driving. I learnd very early that it is not worth the trouble of telling the customers why I late or why I am not leaving right away. They just don't want to hear anything about it. All they want is the bus, AT THE STOP WHEN IT IS SPOUSE TO BE THERE, OR A BUS TO SOME HOW GET THERE AS SOON AS THEY WALK UP TO THE STOP SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO WAIT OF ONE, OR TO LEAVE WHEN THEY GET ON THE BUS AND NOT HAVE TO SEAT THERE NOT MOVING. People are like this on matter how old they are to what race they are. They pay there fare and they want the way they want it. So even if the driver tell her why his is sitting there, she just might not want to hear it.
And as for refunds no the driver can't give them. We have no asscent to the money wonce it gose into the F/B. I hell if I am giving anyone money out of me own pocket. I have had people ask me to give them money back becouse they put to must in or they got on the roung bus.
Robert
I'd feel bad for them, but you should just give them a transfer or something. Besides, can't they read the sign that says "Operator has no change"?
If they did got on the wrong line I would give them a transfer. But if there running late I can't do anything for them, sorry.
Robert
Today I rode 7512 from UP on the B64. This was my first ride on a REMAN. It actually wasn't that bad. However, they aren't keeping the buses in good shape. It looked inside as bad as the 81-82 RTSs before REMAN. The seats were SH!#ty. The inside looked dirty.
The only thing I really saw that changed from an 81-82 to a 96 REMAN is that there is the new Destination sign on the front, side and rear. There is now air assist doors. The W/C mechanism is the same as the GMCs of the time except there is a handle to hold on to like the Orion V's W/C lifts. And that's about it.
You are right and other changes include a Reliabuilt Detroit Diesel 6V-92TA DDEC III (Detroit Diesel Electronic Control) coupled to an Allison V-731RH ATEC (Allison Transmission Electronic Control) 3 speed automatic. They were basically upgraded to be equivalent to the 8xxx series of 1990/91. Hope this helps.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
www.transitworld.org
Despite the upgrades they still suck! The basic frame is still that of a 19-20 year old bus. They rattle and shake like crazy, ride rough and are noisy. As I've said numerous times on this forum, the remans were a total waste of money.
I wish Fresh Pond would get them. UP would get some 9100s to compensate.
There's an amusing picture on p. 64 of this month's Metro magazine of #7000 (OK, so it's not a Midwest reman), most likely an MTA promotional photo. The destination sign has a picture of a bus at left, and reads:
HI! I'M BUS 1333
BUILT BY GMC IN 1981
I wonder if that's still programmed in? :)
As you all may know, I have mentioned our neighboring Blacksburg Transit in my posts, and for those of you curious as to what their buses look like, I have successfully completed a model of one, and it is now available on eBay.
Ths bus is modeled after 2616, which is the one I drove the most during my brief stint at BT. It features full detail thougout, including Flxible emblems in the correct places. Go check it out today; it can be found under the search word "flxible".
Also, my first 30' Flx Metro model is coming along; the body is back in one piece, and support beams have been added for increased structure. I will be filling in the body soon and prepping it for paint so it will be ready for its new owner; let me know if any of you are interested in a 30-footer as well!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Next Monday, May 21st is the date for our repeat of a tour of the SIRT. We'll go end to end &
back again.
===================================================================
Meet at SI Ferry to catch 5:30 boat to SI.
Lou from Brooklyn (and formally from SI) was seeking interest from his core group about taking a
look at SI ball park at St. George instead of the brunch stop. On another recent trip (with Sea
Beach Fred) a group of saw the progress at the CI ball park.
Alternate meeting site ... I'll be at Main Street on the #7 (the extreme East end at the token booth) at
4 PM & be happy to do a run by tour of Flushing line. We'll also get to enjoy a nice Redbird trip
over this mostly elevated route.
I won't detail the whole trip, so clik back to post #30999 to see his write up.
Final item .... on the way back some of us will exit at Eltingville and catch one of those new MCI
Cruisers that will bring us to lower Manhattan via the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge & Gowanus
Expressway. For you BusTalkers here's a chance to take a ride in the company of others just for fun !
Please either respond here or e-mail Lou or I so we have some idea of how many are coming ... or
we'll leave without you !
Mr t__:^)
I expect to go if all goes well. I'll probably join up at the Whitehall terminal for the 5:30 boat.
For what it's worth, I can leave work and be at the Vernon/Jackson '7' stop at about 4:45.
Do you expect to change at Times Square to go down to South Ferry, or at Grand Central to go down to Bowling Green? The former is probably a lot less crowded.
I'll take the Redbird to the end, as we may end up with a R-62 or R-142 at Times Sq. I may wait one or two trains there to try & get another railfan window. It depends on how much time I have to make the 5:30 boat.
Mr t__:^)
Yesterday I took a little Field Trip of my own to Rockaway.
Q60: 267- rode pretty slow until I reached Woodhaven Blvd. Got off and snapped a few pics there while waiting for the Q53. Got 3007. Bus was in descent shape- a surprise for Triboro Coach and ran pretty good too.
Saw 1150 and 643 working the Q21.
290 607 611 on the Q22.
After I saw some parked shuttle trains at B116 St Station, I decided to walk on the boardwalk which to me hasn't changed 1 bit. Then it was time to head to work. Q53 got on 3067-a faster bus than 3007 but the white paintjob has got to go and replacement parts were all over the place. There was even a sticker that said replacement part on the right side in the back. Got up to QB and 63 Dr where I picked up the Q60 Turtle-5546 came in packed and I saw another bus from a distance coming. I let 5546 go and got 710, an MCI Classic with a broken sign. The bus was slow and the driver was sitting in 2 stops-Yellowstone Bl and 71 Ave for like 5 minutes each stop. A passenger got upset and ran out of the bus at 71 Ave. I was getting upset b/c everyday GBL has to do this to the Q60 and I've only seen this with the Q60- an empty bus has to sit or dispose its passengers for a full bus to continue down the line and stop at every 2 blocks. No wonder why GBL was rated the worst in the City. Got off almost 30 minutes later at Kew Gardens Rd-mind that I got on at 63 Dr to get the Q46. Got 9363- moved pretty good a little crowded but by the time I got off at SJU-it was a lot emptier. Going home I had 4917, F train 6108 which everywhere else said "V" 2 Ave Manhattan- 6 Ave Local. Was curious about that. 7 Train got 9539. More trips to come.
Q53#3067Gary
Q46#4917Gary
Q60#710Gary
the Q60 sometmies sits in stops because there arte more dispatchers along the route to keep the buses on time-there is one at Woodhaven blvd,lefferts,33rd st and 69th st. they sit becasue they do not want to be too early to the disptachers.
Those buses on the Q53 are all express Orions, right?
Yep. 3000-3071 are Orion Suburbans.
Q53#3067Gary
To Gary, et., al.,
For those of you that missed Gary's trip, next month some time I'll be doing my "Field Trip to the Beaches of Rock & Long". Granted for you bus fans most of it will be via subway, BUT at Far Rockaway we'll catch a LI Bus to Long Beach (very nice ride over the bridge & down the main drag ... watch as the neighborhood changes from singles summer hang outs, to middle class to rich). There'll even be the opportunity for you to catch a "City of Long Beach" bus at the LIRR Long Beach station to the beach (they don't do Transfers, so this would be an extra fare).
My plan is to either walk or take the City of Long Beach bus to the boardwalk (majority rules). The spot we'll end up at has provisions for supper, volley ball, or just getting you feet wet in the surf, but watch out for bikers & runners on the boardwalk (there will be lots of them).
Special note: You CAN do it all on one Fun Pass, i.e. subway, LI Bus to Long Beach, then N15 to Merrick Road, Rockville Centre & N4 back to Queens. Most probally will take the LIRR back (fare is $4 or $5).
I did this two years ago, last year I waited until August for Sea Beach Fred to come up from Calif., but he didn't. This Spring he did make it. We went from Times Sq. to Coney Island with him.
Mr t__:^)
Whatever differences NJT and Rockland Coaches/Coach USA had have apparently been settled. Was on my way to work around 11:45 this morning and watched a convoy of still-unmarked D4000s headed up Teaneck Road here in teaneck towards Rockland's Bergenfield garage, where i imagine boxes of Coach USA decals await them.
Actually the Bergenfield Facility is no more. The Bergenfield operations has been moved to Mahwah with the Short Line operation. Most likey those units were heading up to the Westwood Facility.
The Red & Tan D4000 Cruisers first appeared about 1 1/2 weeks ago, some have already been "Cheaply" Coach USA plastered!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Geez, SL's Mahwah lots are already packed to the gills. And some of the NJT-supplied RTSs and Flxibles are at Westwood for the 750-series routes.
In the convoy this morning, there were at least 5 in a row, right in a line. I'm sure those drivers are pretty happy to be making the trip from Caven Point. Outside of a few borrowed buses from other Coach USA divisions, Rockland hasn't had a new bus since their last 96A3s in 1989.
Rockland Coach had been using the former Short Line "South" Garage for quite a few months, but that practice stopped approximately 3 months back (or, perhaps, somewhat longer back). I have not seen any Rockland buses at the Short Line "North" Garage, nor at the former Leisure Line Garage that had been taken over by Short Line.
By the way, it will be interesting to see if the new D4000's are numbered in the 8400 series or the 28400 series.
Then it's a good chance that operations were moved back to Bergenfield, but I'd talked with a operator saying that the Bergenfield Facility will be used more or less as a CMF and not a depot.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Well, if Bergenfield will just be maintenance, then it would stand to reason that the new D4000s would get prepped there with Coach USA adornmment, similar to NJT using Caven Point for delivery instead of sending buses directly to each operating garage.
I';; take a run by Bergenfield on my lunch break and see if anything's laying around there.
Trevor, that picture you posted of 5270 at Caven Point yesterday seems to hint at the rumored conflict over the usage of the new MCIs between Rockland Coaches and NJT. Its destination sign reads "TZX 2" - Tappan Zee Express route 2, one of Transport of Rockland's routes to Westchester - which obviously doesn't serve New Jersey in any way shape or form. Since NJDOT paid the local share of the new MCI order, compared to the PA of the previous MCIs, I would think (if the conflict was indeed accurte) that NJDOT/NJT were certainly reasonable to request that these coaches not be used on TOR/TZX routes.
I put that sign in the bus. As a joke! :) LOL!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
ooooo - I'll have to get you for that one!!
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
It wasn't easy finding the code for that sign either!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Oh, is that why one of the pics of a NJT Nova on your site is signed up as '319 Cape May'? And various others signed up for either '3 Journal Square' (a L&G route) or '10 Bayonne' (a Trans-Hudson route)?
Fun Knee.
BTW - are there any currently-unused route numbers/destinations that can be displayed?
EXACTLY!!!!!!!
And yes, there is plenty of route numbers that can be programmed that aren't in use!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
One of Trevor's more obvious ones is the CNG MCI at Howell signed up as "751 Paramus-Bergen Mall", a route that NJT doesn't even operate (Community runs it), let alone run from Howell.
I remember about two years ago when I spotted a Nova (I think it was an RTS-6A from Orange) on Broad St in Newark. The driver must have been deadheading to Penn Station and forgot the right code, because the destination sign read "Philadelphia."
Hi,
I got a web club called A1 Model Buses devoted to toy buses and memorabilia. You can post your favorite pics, links as well as chat w/ others on the message board. Its a lot of fun. Try and it and spread the word for me.
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/a1modelbuses
Thanks,
Bryan
Hey, just for those who missed my post earlier, please join my A1 MODEL BUSES CLUB. Its a load of fun. Got 100 members in 1 1/2 month so far.
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/a1modelbuses
Does anybody have old Brooklyn Bus Maps? Please Response.
Mission Monday...The Double Header
Virginia, DC and Maryland
This weeks Mission Monday took two days to accomplish. Mission Monday began with a quiet walk from my home at 3:50am to the Fairview Bus Facility to catch the 4:16am 159 to the Port Authority (1986 Volvo B-10M #9238), with a PABT arrival at 5:00am. After alighting at the PABT, instead of taking the (A) Train down one stop I decided to walk to Penn Station, nice walk. The walk only took that of 10 minutes. After arriving at Penn Station, I went up to the PSCC (Penn Station Control Center) to find out what track my train (Metroliner 201 at 5:25am) would platform on so I can get a head start on a seat before the regular passengers.
The train arrived in DC right on schedule where I met up with TransiTALK Staff Member, Adam Paul. From there we walked around the Union Station area taking pics of the buses in the surrounding area. After that, we walked over to H Street and caught a ride on the X2 (1984 MAN SG-310 Articulated #5124) to the final stop. There we snapped of some shots and did some video. From there we walked over to the Farrgut West Station and caught the Blue Line (Rohr Equipment) and rode that to Metro Center where we transferred to the Red Line (Breda Equipment) to Silver Spring. There we shot some still photos and video, then reboarded the Red Line (Breda Equipment) to Wheaton Station. There we
There (at Wheaton Metro), we did some more video and still photography then boarded a Ride-On 48 (Orion V #5550) to Rockville Metro Station, since the scene at Rockville was kinda dull we immediately hopped the Red Line (Breda Equipment) to Shady Grove, there we were able to get on the Ride On property and shot one of the Flxible METRO-Ds all to hell. After leaving the Ride On Facility, we re-entered the Shady Grove Station property and shot some video and stills of the 12 noon pull outs. After that pull left, we boarded the Ride On #59 (Orion V #5551) back to Rockville. This particular bus proved to be a fun ride as a fight broke out between a Passenger and the Driver.
After arriving back at Rockville, we came upon a little rare jewel there, one of Ride On's two rare Orion V 35 footers powered by a Detroit Diesel Series 92. So we just had to ride it (on Ride On Route 49 to Glenmont), also proved a fun ride as we blew through the entire route with barely any bus stops. After arriving in Glenmont Metro Station, we reboared the Metrorail Red Line (Breda Equipment) to Union Station for a Lunch Stop.
After Lunch, back to the Red Line it was, this time the heading was for Georgetown. We took the Red Line to Metro Center and changed to the Orange Line (Rohr Equipment) to Farragut West (Again!) and boarded a Metrobus Route 32 (Orion 5 #9634) to Georgetown. After arriving in Georgetown and doing a few photos, we reboarded the 32 (Orion 5 #4311, which had a screwy Announcment system) back to Farragut West. From there we boarded a Blue Line (Rohr Equipment) for Pentagon. There is was just like a major moving bus fest, Bus after Bus after Bus after Bus, if you blinked you missed someting easily. After spending about 1 hour there and blowing about 100 images, we boarded the Yellow Line (Breda Equipment) to Gallery Place and transferred to the Red Line (Rohr Equipment) to Union Station. There we boarded a MARC Penn Line Train (Kawasaki Double Deckers) for Baltimore Penn Station. WOW, the Double Deckers ride smooth as silk. From Baltimore Penn Station, Adam went home and I boarded my train heading back up north (Metroliner #126).
Go to the next post for Day Two!...........
Day two begins:
Day started out with a nice ride on the 159 Busway Express (Volvo B-10M #9259) to the PABT. After arriving at the PABT, I walked to the Penn Station where I boarded my train bound for Baltimore (Acela Express 2153). MAN AWESOME ASS TRAIN RIDE!! After arriving in Baltimore relaxed as hell. I met back up with Adam, instead of using Mass Transit, we took the car and blasted out several spots for photos, after spending about 3 hours spot hopping. We arrived at the Bush Division for the Baltimore MTA, where Adam picked up his bus (Yes, He's a bus driver). The Bus of the Day was a 1988 Flxible METRO-B #8810. MY LORD THIS THING WAS ROCKET AND HAD A LEAN TO GIVE THE TRUE FLXIBLE FAN A ORGASM!
After riding his 4 hour stint, he dropped me back off at Penn Station where I boarded my train back up north (Metroliner #690). I Arrived back home at around 1am.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
[This particular bus proved to be a fun ride as a fight broke out between a Passenger and the Driver.]
Trevor, I hope this was a verbal fight and not a physical one!
Sounds like you had a nice two days.
Yeah it was verbal, and damn funny! The bus operator really laid into that passenger, in which the operator was totally correct in the situation.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Yeah.
But what happin if it was one of the people from the TV Show "BOOT CAMP" was driveing the bus? LOL!!
I would like to know what is the need for the bus transfer machine?
For bus transfers, of course!!!
JK
More specifically, what system are we talking about??
Yeah but how does it work?
What system are you referring to?
WMATA
OK then. I assume you are talking about the bus to rail transfer machine located in MetroRail stations.
This is so that riders transfering from rail to bus only have to pay 25 cents to board the bus at the destination station. They pick one up at the originating station and it can be used within two hours at any stop within 4 blocks of the station so one can use it on round trips. As of now, there is no bus to rail transfer although if WMATA is smart, they will have one with the SmarTrip cards once they are installed on buses.
Bus transfer machines are usually automated transfer issuing/accepting devices that are part of the farebox. They eliminate the need for pre-printed transfers, having the driver handle them. They also eliminate people arguing (for the most part) with the driver about expiration time and validity, as the farebox will give a valid or invalid display. People are less aprt to argue with a machine. And, the transit agency can also retrieve a lot more information from the transfers, such as time of issue, time of acceptance, how many transfers actually happen from line to line, etc.
There are a few different type of machines, depending on the farebox manufacturers. Most of the newer electronic fare collection systems have the provisions for addition of a transfer machine even if it was not originally installed.
The NYCTA,LIBUS & NYCDOT has the perfect example of this system.
This i saw on the news-4 year old hit by LI Bus in Queens on beach 20th Street-might have been the N31,N32 or N33. You cann see it from the new chopper that it was a LI BUS and a ORION V-CNG. But dont know the number. Just passing word along.
avoid #8292. This bus windows DO NOT OPEN AT ALL!!. I was on this bus on the M2 a few days ago and all the windows do not open. Looks like they were painted shut. Try to avoid this one if you can.
SUBTALK LIVE THIS SATURDAY
May 19, 2001
7:30 PM ETBusTalkers are welcome, too!SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
As in any Internet forum or chatroom, certain polices and rules need to be created and enforced. SubTalk Live is no exception. The following policies are in effect at all times in the chatroom:
1. ANY public transit related topic can be discussed (bus, subway, or railroad).
2. It is requested that you use your handle as your chat nickname.
3. OPs will be the sole people in the chat to deem a topic off subject although others can ask the OP to look over a topic. Even so, the chat should allow for some other topics (within reason).
4. Anyone who disrupts the chat in any way (scrolling, profanity, obscene remarks, constant chatting off-topic) will be punted.ARE YOU READY TO SUBTALK LIVE???
Just go to http://www.subtalklive.com and join in! If you use mIRC, do your thing!NOTE
It is strongly reccomended you enter the room and troubleshoot BEFORE Saturday night!WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU!
I saw a NYBS GM New Look #1501 takeing a break at Madison Ave and 42 St. The Headsign says "Bus Following". I never saw any NYBS bus like that. What do "Bus Following" Mean?
Also I saw anouther GM New Look. And it's not by NYBS. The Paint job on the GM New Look is Green and Silver. And saw this at 47 St. Who owns this GM New Look?
Also I saw a Rebulit GM RTS Soft Seater #7047 on M30. The Headsign looks like the Headsign from a 1987 RTS. I keep thinking that the headsigns on the 7000's are like the Nova RTS's. Could that be a replacement?
And I saw #5501 and #5503 on Q60. I wounder if #5501 and #5503 have been used on other routes?
Q60 Orion5 #5501
Q60 Orion5 #5503
M30 GM RTS#7047
Bx7A GM New Look #1501
I saw 5503 on the Q7 Tuesday and 5501 I've seen on the Q11 and QM18. IDK what the case is with 7047 but look at 4429 from QV. The bus is a 1986 RTS with a 1982 Sign. It is also called "The Death Bus" because of that reason. It has many replacement parts on her and I believe the bus killed a person or 2 in the past.
Q11#5501Gary
Q88#4429Gary
Wonder if it owned by an Orthodox Jewish Bus Co. Trevor Logan had e-mailed me a pic several weeks ago to see if I could guess who the original owner was.
Trevor saw the bus on 34th and 7th. Also at the Lincoln Tunnel. Since 47th Street is "the diamond district" and many orthodox Jews are involved in that industry, I wouldn't be surprised if it is Trevor's Mystery Bus.
I think you should send those photos to me so like that I see. I only saw the back of that bus. At that time I was on Orion5 #522 on Q32. It have a A/C unit in the back. I wouldhave to look at it BTW.
In downtown Rheims, France, last month, I kept hearing steady locomotive bells, the kind we would hear from a diesel locomotive passing a station platform, not a clang. It turned out the transit buses were ringing bells! It seems to be a chip with a loudspeaker low near the front door, and it is apparently used only downtown where there are several shopping streets with transit as the only vehicular traffic. It was a rather pleasant sound, and it seemed particularly effective when a bus was coming out of a side street.
The same system (TUR) has some articulateds with four (!) double doors. Talk about quick loading!
I saw four of Jamaica's express coaches wandering arounding on routes other than the X63 and X64:
9262: Pulling out from JA, carrying Q17 sign and heading toward Archer Avenue
9268: on Q42, run 2
9269: on Q42, run 311
9280: on Q42, run 6
nyc transit are doing alot of change aroud,
I believe that there is an excess of express buses. So the Novas tend to go on routes like the Q42 which is not a heavily used route. The Q17? IDK about that one.
Q42#9269Mike
Q17#9539Mike
I just got some correspondence from the New York Transit Museum indicating that this year's Bus Festival would be held on Wednesday, July 4th, which date, coincidently, is the 25th Anniversary of the New York Transit Museum. Mark your calendars!
Why isn't it Saturday like always?
Because, it's the 25th anniversary of the Transit Museum.
Peace,
ANDEE
They FINALLY have it on a day that I have off!!!! I'll be there in definite!!!!!
B61 Leonard
Not Always.....Bus Fest '99 was a Sunday. I'm sure because I got there early and got a street spot on Livingston St, by the TA Building and didn't have to keep feeding the meter.
July 4th is also the aniversary of some very strange country . . . Canada is it? ;-)
I certainly hope the date changes as most people have other plans in the 4th of July.
Wayne
That and people who need major O/T work as well.
How do you get there?
You will find directions to the Museum at:
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/museum/general.htm#directions
Tonight at about 10:30 PM the last Bx8 bus from Locust Point discharged its panssengers at 225th St and White Plains Road (the last stop). Luckily that bus goes to the Gun Hill Depot afterward. When the bus reached 224th Street he was cut off by what I belive was a cab and he sideswiped a pillar which carries the #2 and 5 trains. The whole front side where the passenger door WAS is smashed up. The driver appeared to just be a little shaken up.
If this would have happened with the bus previous Bx8, it would have been in service and I'm positive someone would have been hurt, especially if they were sitting in the front of the bus by the door.
Well if anyone goes to Rhode Island and rides RIPTA and gets a RTS in the 4100-4600 Series, they are ex-MTAs. They kept the same #s on the bus as they were in NYC.
The UTC roster shows 32 RTS-04s & 06s going to RIPTA, numbers between 3839 and 4504 (yup, two 3800 Suburbans!). So far, I've seen 4136, 4186, 4361, 4384, 4386, 4388, 4389, 4493, and 4495 in RIPTA service.
Shameless plug: I have pictures of several of them here :).
Great Stuff!!!!!
Just added some myself at (More Shameless Plug):
www.geocities.com/transitalk/Sites/RIPTA/RIPTA.html
LOL!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Nice shots, especially 4473 inside the garage! When did you get up there?
So, add 4365, 4366, 4368, 4405, and 4473 to that list of buses back in service :). I just saw 4405 this past weekend, too; that makes two with that horrid Quik wrap (4388, too).
BTW, the Volvo "office" in the layup yard can't be 8501, as that bus is alive and well and sitting in the Elmwood yard.
I was up there about 2 saturdays ago now. Ok about the Volvo, I was taken a shot in the dark guess about that bus. You wouldn't happen to have the number would you?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Was that the MNYBA trip? Unfortunately, I don't know the number of that Volvo, but I just sent an e-mail to RIPTA about it. Hopefully someone there knows :).
Yes that was the MNYBA Trip!!!! Great Bunch Of People!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
do any know the name of nyc first artics. buses.
IIRC the first articulated busses to run in NYC were the MANs that Beeline uses.
Peace,
ANDEE
were they issiue to nyc transit.
No...the first articulateds used by NYCT are the New Flyers they have now.
Peace,
ANDEE
Actually before the New Flyers, NYC Transit tested a Neoplan articulated. The bus arrived at 126th Street Depot sometime in late 1994 (If my memory, which isn't too good, serves me right.) from one of the Staten Island depots. (I don't remember which one.) The bus was used exclusively on the M15 for about a month then was sent on to another depot. Since New Flyer ultimately ended up with the order I assume the Neoplan articulated was sent back to the manufacturer.
so other wise the neoplan artic. prototype was the first artic.
on nycmta soil.
No,the MAN 310 Artric back in the early 80's (1983 I believe) was the 1st artric to be run by the TA
It was beck in 1983 when the TA ran a MAN 310. It was used on a SI Express route. I don't know the number of the route, but I do remenber seeing it sometime when I on the "F" Train at Smith & 9th street or in my famly car on the highway.
Robert
As I had stated earlier in the thread, the MAN artic was subsequently re-sold to Westchester County, and still runs today as their #661.
I thought he was refering to what the first fleet was. I usually don't count one shots and demonstrators.
Wasn't there a Volvo articulated demo around 1990?
Peace,
ANDEE
Technically, the first artic used by NYC Transit itself was a 1984 MAN SG-310. I don't recall the NYCT number off the top of my head but the SN was DC610536. IIRC, NYCT rejected the bus, and it subsequently went to Westchester as their #661.
NYCT(A) tested a German-made artic for two weeks in June 1974. There's a mention of it in the MTA 1974 annual report. The item doesn't say whether it was a Neoplan, a M-A-N, or another brand, but I seem to recall seeing a picture of it and that it was a M-A-N.
David
MTA - LI Bus (then known as MSBA) had two artics; I believe they were Ikarus buses built in Hungary. I don't know exactly what year they arrived (sometime in the 1980's?), but I don't think MSBA was very fond of them and, consequently, they didn't get much use. I don't think they were demos, but they sure did not last long in Nassau County.
I remember these also,it was around the same time NYCTA was testing the MAN-310.I saw it being used alot on the N20/21(a line that actually can use artriculates if LIBus ever purchases them)
so the first artics that was ever on nyc soil was a man artic.
Technically, yes. At least the first articulated buses operating in New York City - either by Bee-Line or NYC Transit.
If you really want to get deeper in the NYC region, NJ Transit tested a Volvo B10m artic and a MAN artic in 1981. I don't know what became of the Volvo demo, but I believe the MAN artic tested (possible serial #BB010001) was subsequently sold to the Richfield Bus Company as their #220.
I remember seeing a picture of the bus you're talking about. It was actually a Crown Ikarus 286 - which was also sold to Toronto and Ottawa as the Orion III. The photo was taken at College Point, Queens, so that particular bus could've been the MSBA demo. It was later sold to Milwaukee County Transit for parts after it's demo tour.
Well Boys, Looks like Coach USA is real close to being no more. As per hearing from my Union today on bus issues (My Union is the same that is the Union for many Coach Companies), Coach USA is close to bankrupt and closing its doors. After hearing this I asked a few people what would happen to the existing Coach USA companies should Coach USA completely fold. Here is what two options could happen:
1) Some companies will go back to thier previous status before the Coach USA Take Over
2) Some companies will complete fold due to the fact of total dependency on Coach USA. In which that case, using Jersey for a example, that the lines will be considered to be taken over by New Jersey Transit or other companies still standing.
Coach USA has totally no regard for the employees of the companies it has consumed. Prime example, Insurance premiums to be paid by Coach USA for companies with medical benifits has been ignored and has caused Medical Insurance for workers to laps and become null and void. Other incidents includes workers paychecks bouncing because Coach USA had depleted funds. From what I was told, becuase Coach USA had gotten such a big head (ego) about themselves, when Stagecoach UK bought out Coach USA, Stagecoach decided to cut off funding to Coach USA to see if they could stand on thier own two feet. Looks like Coach USA is falling like the Roman Empire!
Also, Lafayette & Greenville IBOA in Jersey City could very well close its doors in July due to incidents of thier own, Thier lines could easily be scooped up by NJ Transit or another IBOA.
I will post more info on this as it is given to me by the Union.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
This is not the first time Stagecoach has "crossed the pond" and screwed up big time. Their last attempt on this continent was running a few bus companies in Canada, and they similarly failed, and had to be merged into existing carriers.
For those former owners who may want their operations back, they will make a small fortune. They were paid handsomely to sell to CU in the first place, then they got the stock payoff when Stagecoach bought Coach USA. Now if CU indeed falls apart, they could buy back their ompany at a bankruptcy price for cents on the dollar, and just assume the payments on the new buses purchased or leased.
I would expect companies in NJ like ShortLine (Hudson Transit), Suburban, the Red & Tan group, and Community to survive. Olympia, ONE, and South Orange Avenue would probably have to merge into a single company, and Leisure Line would probably have to merge into ShortLine.
The management of Academy and DeCamp are probably having a good chuckle over this.
Bet the Eisens/Jamiesons are already salivating over some of the leftovers that'll be available......
So much for CUSA becoming another Greyhound.
Here's an article from CNNfn.com, dated March 2, regarding Stagecoach's financial health, and it does indeed make a small mention of trouble at Coach USA CNNfn.com - Stagecoach
I guess we should get our last shots of the CoachUSA paint scheme before it goes bye-bye ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Well Don't Pack It Up Yet, Its a chance they may bounce back, A VERY SMALL CHANCE!!!!! LOL!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Who Knows. Maybe they Bounce all the way to the MOON!! LOL!!
Wonder what effect a demise of CU will have on the price of any bus models, such as the Corgi and the (I think) Jimson T21-2015 trimmed by Royal Coach ?
Here's a thought - Maybe Coach USA expanded too quickly.
Wayne
The question will be IS THIS GOOD OR BAD? I would imagine some of the Coach USA companies werent doing so well, but others like community coach were doing fine by themselves.
--
What was the real purpose of Coach USA? I know it was to allow someone in California to come to NYC and feel like they are on the same safe bus that they were in when they left.
What do you think would have happened to some of these companies without Coach USA? Would a a few of them be out of business?
I have a feeling some of the major Coach USA shops would still be in business, namely Community Coach, Suburban, Bonanza, Short Line, and the Red & Tan family (Rockland Coaches, R&T Tours, Trans Hudson Express/ex-Drogin). I could possibly add Cape Transit Corp - a charter operator in South Jersey mainly dealing with charters and casino runs. As for the others? Did somebody say "consolidation"?
I would bet some good moolah that the Eisens [HTL] pick a LOT of the CUSA pieces up in this area.....
Wonderful. First Lakeland is rumored to be turning it's NYC lines over to NJT/Morris County. Then, Coach USA is about to go under, and now Lafayette & Greenville? Boy, am I glad we have Academy and DeCamp left, unless there's something going on in Hoboken and Montclair that we don't know about.
You know that Academy is just salivating over the possible picking up of some of the Central Jersey routes (ie. Princeton/New Brunswick) if Coach USA disappears.
I'm sure the end of Coach USA is going to cause a nightmare for NJT if they have to take over some of the routes. Not to mention us bus nuts out there who have rosters they have to keep up to date....
Anyone know the status of Laidlaw, they were having their own problems recently.
Mr t__:^)
>>>(My Union is the same that is the Union for many Coach Companies), <<<
That union is the ATU, right? Funny there is no mention of these problems on any of thier websites.
Peace,
ANDEE
No, The Union is Transport Workers Union Local 225. NOT ATU!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
They are not gonna publicize the information I gave you, that was exclusive from the Union President!!!! So don't expect to find that on any site!
The TWU Local 225 Represents:
NJT/Fairview
Coach USA
Lafayette & Greenville IBOA
Mongtomery DPW
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Not to get picky here, but I thought some CUSA shops (Suburban, Community) were represented by UTU. Which CUSA shops in NJ are represented by TWU 225?
TWU Shops are Short Line, Grey Line, Liesure Lines, basically all of the northern Jersey CUSA Shops except for Red & Tan which is ATU and Commuter which is UTU! The TWU Locals in Jersey tends to expose things over other unions which keeps some things hush hush!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Is there a M102 Limited? I know I used to see M102 purple limited signs along Lex Ave......
M102#4835MikeLimited??
No but the purple signs have been up on Lexington Avenue for several years. They are all blue (which is the correct color) on Third Avenue.
THERE IS NO M102 Limited!!!!!!!!! As far as I know.
I saw a M102 Limited at Third Av/96th St.
There is no M102 Limited. The sign is wrong.
One time I was at 96th/2nd Av. when the M96 bus stop sign had M72/West Side and M30/Clinton (57St/8 AV). Oh, for the love of RTS's!!!! Months later, they fixed the sign.
A group of signs at Fordham Plaza had routes that either did not go there or did not even exist!! There were signs such as those for the Bx28, Q44, and Q94(hah, did THAT line EVER exist?)
Well, the DOT screws up yet again.
CWalNYC
I know there is no M102 limited but the signs indicate there is one in the southbound direction only.
They indicate it on Third Avenue too.
No they don't. Look at this photo:
Click here
This was taken at 79th and Third, a limited stop. If you look at the sign, the 102 is in blue.
If the link for the photo doesn't work, go to http://www.geocities.com/otpnycpics/mcbus.htm. The photo is the one on the left (side view of the MetroCard bus).
Is it me, or does that RTS have 4 RV A/C units on top of the roof? Couldn't they afford a single Sutrak unit? Looks like they have cheaped out on the A/C.
The 102 might be in blue on 79th, but that doesn't mean the 102 is blue everywhere else along Third.
It's purple at 14th and at least one other place.
I have never seen a purple one on the Upper East Side. Both directions share 3rd Avenue at 14th Street. You sure it is on both signs?
You sure it is on both signs?
Yes.
Well along Bay Ridge Pkwy in Bklyn, there is a sign for the old BM15 xpress service.
There's one that lists the buses that stop there as follows:
Q17
Q27
Q22
Q35
Are we in Flushing or the Rockaways?
Actually, it reads
Q17
Q27
Q22
Q34
Still incorrect, nonetheless.
The TA was considering sending the Q44 to Fordham Plaza not too long ago.
I could rember Before Jamaica Ave Closed down to fix the ground.At the bus stop at Jamaica Ave and Queens Blvd. There was a sign there saying "Q59 Williamsburg". It was to say "Q54 Williamsburg". Now the street work is over. That tall bus stop sign tha was there is now GONE!! And it's back to that Small Sign. Could just have kept it there.
Have anybody noticed the new tall bus stop signs that tells you the route and the neighborhood that route is going to? They are "sprouting up" in Bklyn......
B20#5068Mike
I think they had them in Manhatten for a while now. In Philadelphia (Center City of course) there are some new bus stop signs with the numbers and destionations of the buses serving that stop.
They have been in Manhattan for some time now...
QUESTION:
Are there any of the old Bus Stop signs with the GM "Fishbowl" still in use ?
Bill "Newkirk"
There are at least three.
At least two are at the Passenger Ship Terminal alongside the West Side Highway. They are plainly visible to southbound traffic in the right lane of the highway. I don't know of any buses that stop there nowadays. (Certainly no NYCT buses stop there and I don't think any ever did.) This information is about a month old.
One is at the M1 stop on Lafayette Street on the north side of Canal Street. It's quite faded. This information is about a year old.
I had a picture of one of the former on my web page before it abruptly went down in January.
When exactly were those signs phased out, anyway? (Was it the same time the Guide-a-Rides were first installed? That would be the early 1980's, IIRC.) And when they were in use, was there any indication of which routes stopped at the bus stop?
There's one on 30th Avenue and 31st Street in Astoria (Maspeth-bound Q18 stop). I took a picture of it (it'll be easy to spot with the thumbnail).
Yup, that's the one.
The ones at the Passenger Ship Terminal are in much better shape, probably because they're in the shade.
There is one by the Bway Jct bus/subway complex. There are usually in front of schools for special "school supplemental service" only.
I fround something that there is a Neoplan in the New RIPTA Paint job. #8851 have that Paint Job and theres a photo of it and the Neoplans looks great with that Paint Job.
http://www.geocities.com/tt_0102001/TLogan/RIPTA_Neoplan_8851.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/tt_0102001b/JPappas/RIPTA_Neoplan_8851.jpg
Also. Have any body ever saw #8851 in Service yet?
I also fround something on the Nova RTS 9900's. I keep thinking that the 9900's where 40 Foot RTS's. BUT It's 30 Foot RTS's.
http://www.geocities.com/tt_0102001b/TLogan/RIPTA_Nova_9931b.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/tt_0102001b/TLogan/RIPTA_Nova_99Interior.jpg
Do any body know what Routes do the 9900 Nova's mainly run?
42 Neoplan AN440#8851
70 Nova RTS#9901
Nice pic of the RIPTA 30 foot Nova RTS. I raise the same question with these as I do the NJ Transit 30 footers - do you really need a rear door on a 30 foot bus? I recognize the old look 3612's and similar GM models usually had two doors in the 1950's, but today transit properties theoretically get 30 foot buses for lightly patronized routes. If that is the case, the rear door would not seem necessary.
The reason why theres a Back Door on 30 Foot Buses b/c to cut unloading time with a 1 Door 30 Foot Bus. The RIPTA 30 Foot Novas and 40 Foot Novas sort of looks like the NJ Transit 40 Foot Novas and 30 Foot Novas. The Seats,The Windows,and the w/c Lift is differt.
And it do look nice.
I know that for quite a number of years, fare boxes on public transit buses in Phoenix (Valley Metro) accept credit cards for single fare payments. Are there any other transit systems that also accept credit card payments for single rides at the fare box?
The fare boxes on Valley Metro buses operated by the City Of Phoenix (ATC, Laidlaw), Mesa (Forsythe)& Scottsdale (Forsythe) and By the Reginal Public Transportation Athority (Forsythe, ATC) Have fareboxes that except Visa And Mastercard For Local (1.25) and Express (1.75) Fares. The Fareboxes on Buses Operated By the City of Tempe (Forsythe) for Valley Metro Do Not Accept Credit Cards.
I don't really see the point of using credit cards for bus fares. I mean, wouldn't it be hard to go to the company for the bill?
Valley Metro Issues Its own Transit Credit Card "Bus Card Plus". The card is issued thru Emplorers to their employees and High Schools also issue the cards to their students. Billing is done though the Employer or School monthly (usally the workplace employee pays by payroll deduction/students pay at the bookstore to get card renewed monthly) The Employee card is good for 2 years, the student card is good from August 15 Thru December 24 and from January 2 to May 31.
Charges are per Trip .60 Under 18 Local, 1.25 Local, 1.75 Express. The Max Charge Per Month: 17.00 Under 18 Local, 34.00 Local, 51.00 Express. If the max is reached before the end of calender month (Ex May 21) All Trips at that level are free. Transfers are free unlimted use for 2 hours. The Card is not available to the General Public.
For the general public fares are .60 Under 18/Over 65/Disabled, 1.25 Local and 1.75 express Transfers are Free unlimted Use (Any Route Any Direction) 60 Min Weekdays 4 Am Mon To 9 Pm Fri, 90 Min Weekends & Hollidays (After 9 Pm All Days 2 Hour Transfers are Issued)Fairboxes accept .01, .05 .10 .25 .50 Coins And Dollar Bills (No Dollar Coins Excepted) - Tokens (.60 Each)1 token Discount, 2 tokens local, 3 tokens express, - Tickets .60 discount, 1.20 local, 1.70 Express - Monthly Passes 17.00 Discount, 34.00 Local, 51.00 Express - Bus Card Plus (All Buses) - Visa (Credit & Debit) & Master Card (Credit Only) for Local & Express Fares Only (Visa Or Master Card Not Excepted On City Of Tempe (Forsythe) Operated Buses).
Must passengers on the N91 embark eastbound only at JFK Airport (and, similarly, disembark at the Airport on westbound runs)? For example, if I am waiting for an N4 bus on Merrick Road in Valley Stream, headed to Lynbrook, can I get on a JFK Flyer headed east? If I am in Hempstead, can I take a JFK Flyer to get to the Rockville Centre LIRR station? I trust somebody knows the answer.
I don't know the complete answer, but I do know that you cannot board a Hempstead bound JFK Flyer at the Rockville Centre LIRR station.
It is my understanding that the drivers on the Flyer are not (full?) union members. I suspect that the union has required the Flyer to be a non-compete with the N-4 and N-15/16. The animosity between the union drivers and the Flyer drivers appears to be severe. I've never seen an LI Bus driver give that "friendly wave" to a passing Flyer that they give to every other passing LI Bus.
CG
Those drivers are in the paratransit division I believe.
Just noticed tonight a Hempstead-bound JFK flyer with passengers at Peninusla Boulevard and Ocean Avenue in Lynbrook (bypassing Rockville Centre entirely and most of Lynbrook). That's so far off the published route that they must not be able to pick up passengers once they get onto Merrick Road.
CG
According to the Daily News the kid darted out into the street and in front of the N32 bus. The bus fatally hit the kid. Very unfortunate accident, and the bus driver is going to need alot of counseling after that accident. He is the second victim. This seems to be a result of poor child watching by the parents, in my opinion.
The caption shows the rear of the LI Bus, I gather it's one of the new Orions by the new rear lighting scheme.
According to the Daily News the kid darted out into the street and in front of the N32 bus in Far Rockaway. The bus fatally hit the kid. Very unfortunate accident, and the bus driver is going to need alot of counseling after that accident. He is the second victim. This seems to be a result of poor child watching by the parents, in my opinion.
The caption shows the rear of the LI Bus, I gather it's one of the new Orions by the new rear lighting scheme.
I just finished seeing this movie ANTITRUST about computer code geniuses. In the end when the plot is revealed to the world, there is a scene from NYC. In it if you look close on the bottom left there is a NYC bus, and It seems to be one of the VIKINGS. Am I correct in this?
Hey, how did Coach USA come about anyway? I just remember that in the mid 1990s(?), I think, I just all of a sudden start seeing more and more Coach USA buses. I was initially quite angry as a bus nut over here in Southern California to see some of my favorite charter companies disappear. But, may be they will come back now. I WAS really thinking that CU was going to become the next Greyhound of the Chartering business.
Please give me a brief history of how it came about, who the owners were, and how Stage Coach came to own it. To tell you the truth, I don't care too much for the British bus group. Serves them right for trying to conquer the American bus industry. Maybe they don't understand the how it operates on this side of the ocean.
IIRC CUSA came about through an IPO from the Wall Street crowd. Idea was to consolidate a lot of small companies and make money from the economies of scale. Also would be easier to shift equipment around and cover overbooked charter runs and have excess equipment available in case of breakdowns. This way more of the funds could be kept in house rather than having to farm excess jobs out to other operators.
Coach USA was around long before their IPO. They started with 6 original members, three here in NJ (Suburban, Community, and Leisure Line). The original mission was to create small networks of operators, both commuter and charter, to save operating costs. They discovered a lot of owners willing to sell out, and grew by leaps and bounds. They were given lots of credit by the banks to acquire companies, and that is when they decided to go public on the ASE.
Stagecoach saw them as a way to re-enter the North American market (they failed on their own), and bought all the stock of CU.
>what ever happen to man bus company and vovlo bus company in the united states?? because in other countries like in europe i seen man and vovlos buses operate but I only seen 1980"s model of their buses operate in the united states and not the later models why??
There is a detailed history of MAN's bus building operations in the United States at Andre Kristopan's web site. It covers MAN's entry in the US market (w/AM General) in 1978 all the way to the end of the road (in the US) in the mid-1980's. The page even includes a full list of VINs of every MAN bus built in the US.
I don't know the story about Volvo's bus building in the US, but it was probably not a profitable market for Volvo in 1984-1985. AFAIK, there were only four known purchasers of Volvo buses in the US: SEPTA, NJT, RIPTA, and Samtrans near San Francisco.
You had it right about Volvo that is the story, they completed those four orders, and got out! The fact that they were so adamant about using their own powertrains as opposed to the products American agencies were familiar with, definitely didn't help.
Speaking of Volvo's powertrains, I was reading the specs of The Volvo articulateds and it said that the engine is a B10M pancake. Now does that mean it's a 6-cylinder horizontally opposed (like an air-cooled Volkswagen)? Because if it is a flat-6, then the engine should have been at the rear end instead of in the middle of the front section.
Today.
I saw Decamp MCI D4000 #8411 doing a Charter on I-678 in Queens. It seems like I starting to see Decamp MCI D4000's in Queens.
Right behind #8411 was a 1 Door GM New Look painted in MTA NYC Transit paint job. It have the current MTA Logos and that bus was #9700. I don't think MTA NYC Transit have ever own a 1 Door GM New Look. It could be a Ex Command 1 Door GM New Look Painted in MTA Colors by it's owner. Or Painted like that for a Movie. Who owns this New Look?
It's very likely that the Suburban New Look you saw was never owned by the NYCTA. NYCTA never purchased suburban new look buses. They did have transit models (2 doors) with high backed seats though. During the Grumman crisis in the early to mid 1980's the NYCTA did get some second hand suburban new looks (S8H-5304A) from MSBA. They were numbered in the 011XX series. I never figured out why they had the leading zero as part of their fleet numbers. As for a 9700 number... NYCT(A) has never had a GM new look numbered higher than the 89XX series. Are you able to distinguish between the 4 generations of GM new look buses?
Wayne
I think that New Look must have been a Ex LI Bus. Since the New Look I saw was not with those Lights on the Sides of the Front Headsign. It could have been painted for a movie. I don't know what movie is meing taken here in NYC. The A/C Unit in the back is Painted BLUE. NOT any New Look of the MTA ever have it's A/C Unit painted BLUE.
MSBA had about 20 (approx # 100 - 120), used them on the LIRR road'n'rail service to Greenport until 1983, then for charters, until they were outlawed. I don't know if they were V6 or V8, but were automatics, and you could hardly hear the engine inside.
I think the LI Bus 1 Door GM New Looks are use on JFK Flyer from when LI Bus stoped charter service to 1996. I saw those New Looks running on JFK Flyer back in 1994 and 1995.
Not all of the MSBA buses in the low 100 series were one-door suburbans. 100-102 were T6H-5306A's originally with Schenck/Nassau Bus. And 105-112 were T6H-5310A's, the very first buses MSBA ordered when it came into existence. Although 105-112 were transit buses, they had high back seats similar to the NYCTA express bus new looks of the early 1970's.
The T6H-5310A New Looks were an exclusive design for the MTA (NYC Transit, MaBSTOA, and MSBA). 105-112 arrived in 1973 (s/n 0100-0107, not in order). The S8H-5304A buses (113-120: s/n 0065-0072, not in order) were a rarity by MTA standards as they were 96" wide, instead of the TA/OA/MSBA standard 102" wide. 103-104 (s/n 0103-0104, ironically enough) and 121-122 (s/n 115-116) were S8M-5304A - same as 113-120, except for the manual transmission.
Those that the NYCTA (S8H-5304A from MSBA) used in the 1980's were indeed automatics and I'm pretty sure all of them had the DD 8V-71N (8 cylinder) engine. While were in the subject... anyone remember those Greyhound MC-8's that the TA used at the time also in SI express service? The TA really treated those 'Hounds badly.
Wayne
Here's a photo of a GM New Look that I saw. I understand it's a 30 Foot New Look. Just that it was a 40 Foot New Look with the SAME Paint Job as the 30 Foot.
Click here to see the photo.>
Am I correct in assuming that's 8602, former Mobile Command Post?
Yes. I saw a GM New Look in that paint job as #8602. BUT that one I saw was a 40 Foot 1 Door GM New Look #9700.
The N20/21 bunching is pretty severe around Great Neck.
45 minutes can go by before a bus to Flushing shows up, then 4 in a row show up. The lines are sometimes 3 buslengths long!
No suprise here, the traffic is terrible in that area. If only buses could go through traffic lights they'd be able to catch up.
Have you seen The MAN Byses yet some of them Almost look like the novaBUS LFS. if you want to see in go to www.busexplorer.com
At least that looks somewhat tasteful in comparison to Orion's cheap ass Orion VII idea. I just got another pic of the Orion VII and this one now looks like a Mix of a Nova LFS, A Neoplan, A New Flyer with a Orion head sign. Just HORRID!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Can you post it here, or give us a link? This I have to see.
Yes, if you can, please! I just have to see this shot.
Here Is A link
Oh, these MANs. I thought you were talking about the ones that served US streets. Yeah, these look like the LFS with a few variations. Anyway, the LFS was based on a European design. Novabus probably thought everyone would like it since supposedly European buses are more stylish than American buses (and that is in a lot of ways true).
You know the Body of the bus is from Berkohf.
"...another pic of the Orion VII...this one now looks like a Mix of a Nova LFS, A Neoplan, A New Flyer with a Orion head sign."
Sounds like a first or second re-design effort.
Can we possibly get a link to this second Orion VII image?
I'll have to scan it in, I may do it later on!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
SUBTALK LIVE THIS EVENING
May 19, 2001
7:30 PM ETBusTalkers are welcome, too!SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
As in any Internet forum or chatroom, certain polices and rules need to be created and enforced. SubTalk Live is no exception. The following policies are in effect at all times in the chatroom:
1. ANY public transit related topic can be discussed (bus, subway, or railroad).
2. It is requested that you use your handle as your chat nickname.
3. OPs will be the sole people in the chat to deem a topic off subject although others can ask the OP to look over a topic. Even so, the chat should allow for some other topics (within reason).
4. Anyone who disrupts the chat in any way (scrolling, profanity, obscene remarks, constant chatting off-topic) will be punted.ARE YOU READY TO SUBTALK LIVE???
Just go to http://www.subtalklive.com and join in! mIRC users, do your thing!NOTE
It is strongly reccomended you enter the room and troubleshoot BEFORE the chat this evening!WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU!
SUBTALK LIVE THIS EVENING
May 19, 2001
7:30 PM ET
BusTalkers are welcome, too!
SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for
a fun evening!
As in any Internet forum or chatroom, certain polices and rules need to be created and enforced. SubTalk Live is no
exception. The following policies are in effect at all times in the chatroom:
1. ANY public transit related topic can be discussed (bus, subway, or railroad).
2. It is requested that you use your handle as your chat nickname.
3. OPs will be the sole people in the chat to deem a topic off subject although others can ask the OP to look over a topic.
Even so, the chat should allow for some other topics (within reason).
4. Anyone who disrupts the chat in any way (scrolling, profanity, obscene remarks, constant chatting off-topic) will be punted.
ARE YOU READY TO SUBTALK LIVE???
Just go to http://www.subtalklive.com and join in! mIRC users, do your thing!
NOTE
It is strongly reccomended you enter the room and troubleshoot BEFORE the chat this evening!
WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU!
I tested Subtalk live and it's a little slow tonight anyone else tested it yet?
I have. There are no problems.
See my other post on reporting Subtalk Live problems to the board.
And as for raindates, I will close the room after this week's chat until the next one to prevent such a silly thing. We went back to officially sanctioned chats so people would all come at once.
I wish I woud get hit by a bus then I woud not have to deal with this.
Because do to Server Problems. SubTalk Live is NOT going on tonight. It's possable that there would be a make up date for SubTalk Live. I would make a post on when we should have a Make up date for SubTalk Live.
THERE ARE NO SERVER PROBLEMS.
BTW, I do not appreciate people telling me how my chat room works or not. You don't know what goes on. For all I know, this could be a problem with YOUR computer (which it probably is), and then with your thoughtless posting, people think that it won't work for them either.
Therefore I will add the following to the list of Subtalk Live rules:
NO ROOM STATUS INFORMATION IS TO BE GIVEN BY ANYONE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF AMERICAN PIG OR WMATAGMOAGH. Any information given by another person is incorrect and is to be disregarded.
If you have a connection problem you may ONLY contact connection@subtalklive.com
Yo.
WMATAGMOAGH is in Baltmore tonight and I replaceing for him. I just got a E-Mail from him saying to post the SubTalk Live thing on BusTalk and SubTalk. So that rule is REJECTED UNDER MY ORDERS!!
I outrank WMATAGMOAGH and have not authorized anyone to post connection information.
Technical information will be posted by me and ONLY me. Only I have the access to the web server and the java client. I own the subtalklive.com domain.
You were asked to remind people. Not close the room.
MY BAD!!
SUBTALK LIVE THIS SATURDAY
May 19, 2001
7:30 PM ETBusTalkers are welcome, too!SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
As in any Internet forum or chatroom, certain polices and rules need to be created and enforced. SubTalk Live is no exception. The following policies are in effect at all times in the chatroom:
1. ANY public transit related topic can be discussed (bus, subway, or railroad).
2. It is requested that you use your handle as your chat nickname.
3. OPs will be the sole people in the chat to deem a topic off subject although others can ask the OP to look over a topic. Even so, the chat should allow for some other topics (within reason).
4. Anyone who disrupts the chat in any way (scrolling, profanity, obscene remarks, constant chatting off-topic) will be punted.ARE YOU READY TO SUBTALK LIVE???
Just go to http://www.subtalklive.com and join in! If you use mIRC, do your thing!NOTE
It is strongly reccomended you enter the room and troubleshoot BEFORE Saturday night!WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU!
As of 8:00 PM. SubTalk Live is back to normal. So SubTalk Live is on!!
Yes, today I have ridden one of the new El Dorado 30ft buses on the SEPTA bus fleet. It was # 4522 on the 95. Well, there was a lot of aisle room since every seat faced towards the side of the bus except for the last two rows of seats in the back. The seats were pretty hard, except the cloth on the seat softened it. It was interesting to see the blue plastic seats with the same fabric pattern as the NABIs and Neoplan articulateds, so I assume that designated suburban buses all have blue plastic seats, although I understand that there are quite a few El Dorados running in Philadelphia.
Since the bus was empty when I got on, I got to explore a little bit. On the left side there were two places for wheelchairs, and the back door was really wide (of course, for the wheelchair lift) as was the front door. At first, I thought the back door was push out, but it turned out to be a slide-glide door.
The front of the bus, in the drivers area basically, was a very light grey, contrary to the usual black found on the other buses of the fleet. The destination sign thing (I assume) has this light brown backround with black typing, and is huge, which is wierd compared to what I'm used to, the small green sign things on the Neoplans and Ride-On Gillig Phantoms. The floor was a dark mottled grey, like on the Neoplan buses. The little separation between the driver's compartment and the rest of the bus to keep out the light was just this thin gray wall thing. Of course, this, as well as the rest of the bus, had no advertisments at all. I noticed that under the first two seats on the left side, there was this black box right next to the wheel, so I wonder what that is for.
There is plenty of leg room, including the back row. I'm about 6'0, and when I sat in the back row of seats, I could sit comfortably with space for my knees, unlike the squeezing into seats of the NABIs and Neoplans.
A cool thing about the El Dorado is how big the windows are. Well, they start from the ceiling under the ads and vents to about the top of your legs when you are sitting down. Remember the old days on the Neoplans when I was a child and I to sit up or get up to look out of the window, this was very interesting. So, if you had the window seat, you were basically leaning on the window! Plus, you could see the ground next to the bus very easily because of the low windows. Below the window, there wasn't that metal siding that is on the NABIs and Neoplans.
Another thing I like about the El Dorados is it's small wheels and therefore it's small wheelwells. I sat in the first row of frontward facing seats, where I had to put my feet on the hump of the wheel. It was small, unlike the schoolbuses I have to ride, and I felt comfortable during the entire ride.
Speaking of schoolbuses, that is what the engine reminded me of. A newer schoolbus. Then again, I think school buses use cummins engines (at least the transit style ones). Anyway, when the air conditioning is running, there is this low (low as in pitch or tone, not volume) hum that's interesting to hear and interesting to try to mimic. However, when the air conditioning is off, it goes to the truck/schoolbus mode, which is pretty boring. Anyway, at least it doesn't use an engine that has this huge rumble like those 1996 Flxibles of the WMATA.
Now, I was disappointed to already find blemishes on this bus. The pull cord (which was interestingly yellow) was broken on the left side, so they tied it around on the the guide holes. Also, when I got off the bus via front door, there was already this part when the paint peeled off I guess that was rusting next to the back door. Anyway, at least there isn't scratchiti, and as for the engine to the outsider, it sounds like a truck, which seems fairly wierd (at least to me) for a 30ft bus.
Well, there's a description of the El Dorado. I'm really glad that they got these for the 95 and other routes, and that they were 96 inches. There were some roads that the 95 went through in Gulph Mills where I was surprised there was even bus service. The roads were so narrow! I didn't think a 40ft bus would be able to handle it, but I got one going back to Gulph Mills (a suburban Neoplan, of course), and that changed my mind (I was wondering why they were using a 40ft bus for this route today, the El Dorado going up wasn't even filled!)
Anyway, I am just wondering. When will SEPTA post advertisements on the buses? None of the ones I have seen have a back poster, or an advertisement on that partition of the driver/passenger sections. Really peculiar. How long does it take for SEPTA to post ads on new buses?
the eldorado's are fast very very fast!!!!!!!!
I wouldn't really say that. They are definitely faster than the Neoplans, but about the same acceleration and speed as most new buses, at least I think so. If not, then not that much faster.
The Eldorados do move fast, but their engines sound ridiculously loud from the outside. They could be mistaken for a fire truck.
No, the 8000 series Neoplans (at least some of them, they vary interestingly) can be mistaken for a fire truck. The El Dorados sound more like an automatic tracker trailer engine!
no the eldorado'd sund more lot a school bus.
well....at less have the same transmission.
from the inside they sound like a school bus, and that's where I agree with you. From the outside they really sound much more like a truck, although you may find traces of school bus in it. It really shocked me how different the engine sounded outside from the inside, and how much like a truck it sounded when it left me at the bus stop. Speaking of which, I have a question. What is that little pipe at the bottom of the bus for? I've seen this on all buses with roof exhaust pipes. Is that pipe on the bottom of the bus that sorta looks like an exhaust pipe for fumes or something?
Is that pipe on the bottom of the bus that sorta looks like an exhaust pipe for fumes or something? i guess so i know that the nabi have them to.
it could be water from the engine in the radiator.
That pipe is for the A/C condensation drip. I know that it's a little large, but that is why it's there (basically to divert the drip from inside the bus).
Ah, I see. That makes sense. But it's a long way from the AC to the pipe, though, which is interesting. Also, I noticed on the El Dorados that there is only one overhead vent. Lets just hope the AC works all the time.
There are so many different types of engine sounds for different types of trucks and buses that there's no right or wrong answer to what the Eldorado's engines sound like. The point is, the Eldorado's engines don't sound like engines you'd expect to find in a fairly small, 30 ft. bus.
Yeah, that's exactly what I had been thinking all alone. You'd expect it to have a smallish sounding engine like maybe the 1988 Gillig Phantoms of Ride-On. On the El Dorado, the engine seems to vary greatly from the interior and the exterior. The engine seriously doesn't sound big when you are inside of the bus.
the engine alway sound different in the interior than the exterior.
while the interior have sound panels to prevent the bus to sound
lounder from the inside.
yesterday when i rode a eldorado i saw that black box with wires
come out of it in the driver copit.
Did you saw people getting off from the Back Door? And how the back door works on the El Dorado? And the reason why the 40 Foot was doing on RTE 95 b/c a bus might have broke down or that bus must have been a change off bus.
Yes, I saw people getting off through the back door at Plymouth Meeting Mall, and it slide like a slide glide. Also, that probably makes sense about the 40 ft bus. However, they probably use them during the weekdays. At least, that's what I'm assuming. The 95 seems to have about the same ridership as the 105.
i was riding the eldorado it have orange rails on the door.
Really? I thought all of them were yellow. I've noticed that a lot of new buses nowadays (although strangely not the Neo artics or Orion VIIs of the WMATA) have yellow poles and such, at least with Ride-On's Orion Vs and VI(s).
also i think that the eldorado's are 28 feet instead of 30feet.
seriously? What makes you think that?
i look at the eldorado web sites and the eldorado transmark came in 3 sizes
27 feet,29feet,and 37feet.
here are the eldorado web sites i found
eldorado nation web site
here is another
website.
And also how do I open the back door on SEPTA buses?
like what do you mean about that??
How to open the back doors on SEPTA buses. I just need to know. And is in on the door?
no on septa neoplan the pop out.like flip open.the eldorado's the door open inward.
Not that. The thing that use to open back doors. Like a Push Bar or a Push Tape back door. Like that.
The doors on most of the newer buses are controlled by the driver, therefore, they are automatic. I think on some of the older Neoplan buses, though, the passenger can open the rear door with a push bar. You just have to read the sticker that tells you whether the door opens automatically or if you have to push the bar. Any non neoplan 40ft bus has doors that open automatically.
i know on the nabi buses sometimes people have to push the door
to get the door open.
The door must not be working, then, because they are suppose to be automatic.
sometimes at the callohill district buses.sometimes they take
a long while to open.
people have to push they way open.
That still isn't good anyway, it probably ruins the door.
No, the back doors on all SEPTA NABI's open automatically. But unlike other SEPTA buses, there's a few seconds between the time when the green light goes on and when the doors actually open. When most impatient Philadelphians ride an NABI and try to exit through the back, they think that they have to help the doors open, which is when they start pushing and kicking them, which probably does harm the doors. There's always a few of those idiots on every bus. Doors opening at the same time that passengers push them is nothing but coincidence.
i don't like nabi's afar as the doors.
why not? Because of the rear doors?
yes because of rear doors.sometimes the green light just flash
but the door never open.the door have a such a long delay to open
that it say wait 10 seconds before the door opened.and sometimes the back door never work at all.
People who don't like NABI's don't like Ikarus buses
ikarus change their name in 1997.when septa order they
they was called Ikarus the one that was built in 1996.but when the
order was complete in june of 1997 the company was called nabi.
only the 1996 models have slow opened door.i have'nt seen no slow
open door in the septa 1997 nabi model.
anyway the 1997 model i think that the engine sound much more
quieter than the 1996 model.
one good things about new buses is that if a bus go 50mph it feels like 20mph.
i will not be surprize if i see eldorado end up at southern
,and callowhill.
like the 35 footers.
The likeliest candidate if any City Divison garage gets the Eldorados would be Callowhill. Not only does Callowhill have the 76 - a very low volume route more suited for the 30 ft buses - but they also split the 63 with Southern. The only route at Southern that could support the Eldorados would be the 63.
Callowhill has three likely routes to supporting
eldorado's the g(at nite time),46(on sundays),and 63.
Are you shure? The SEPTA Neoplan 40 Foots are with slideing back doors. And I wounder if it's the same thing with the SEPTA RTS's?
127 Neoplan AN440#8225
the rts and neoplan both have slideing back doors.
Both The Neoplan AN435/440 and The RTS under SEPTA uses pantograph (plug) doors, but the doors on The Neoplans drop 2" before opening.
[Well, there's a description of the El Dorado. I'm really glad that they got these for the 95 and other routes, and that they were 96 inches. There were some roads that the 95 went through in Gulph Mills where I was surprised there was even bus service. The roads were so narrow! I didn't think a 40ft bus would be able to handle it, but I got one going back to Gulph Mills (a suburban Neoplan, of course), and that changed my mind (I was wondering why they were using a 40ft bus for this route today, the El Dorado going up wasn't even filled!)]
I think some 95 trips are through routed with the 97. Some 97 trips do fill up, so that's probably why you saw a 40 ft bus. About a month ago, I spotted 5137 - a NABI - running a 95 trip, which was extremely odd.
That is. I mean, the roads aren't just narrow, they are really narrow, like B street. When passing a van the van and the bus had to go towards the side of the road. I can't imagine a 102 inch NABI running that route. Speaking of the 97, on the 97 schedule (that was available on the bus) there was a picture of an El Dorado. Does the 97 use El Dorados too? There were also 103 schedules available, and these buses do run on the 103 too. Oh, and the funny thing about the 97 and 95 is that you can only transfer between them at three specific points-Penn Square, Metroplex, and Fayette and 1st Ave. I wonder why they did this? Did passengers use on of these rotues to beat the service on the other or something like that?
Cummins are rather loud. First the WMATA Flxibles, then the El Dorados. They may not be that realiable, but they are fast with lightweight buses such as the El Dorado (at least, I think it's lightweight). School buses seem to use them as well-they have similiar engines).
here are a few possiblitys
It depends on the transmission (exp.like the 3000series
have zf transmission and it sound much more different)While the
allision mt-643 5gear set transmision could make the engine sound
muck lounder.
or it just could be the fact that it is a turbo-diesel engine.
The loudness depends on what muffler system was installed, as well as placement by the individual manufacturers.
We have a bunch of Gillig Phantoms out here where I drive....the ones with the 6V92's were the loudest. The bunch with the L10's (later re-engined to M11's) was very quiet. Another bunch that came with L10's started out quiet but were re-engined with Detroit Series 50's, and they became very loud after that.
Ah, that makes sense. I know that the newest WMATA Flxibles (do the 1996 ones use L10s?) have an engine that will rattle your windows from 50 ft or so away. Very loud.
i know that the muffler on the nabi's make the nabi sound more
different than the neoplan.
oterwise the nabi and neoplans an460 would sound the same.
You are right. The SEPTA NABIs and Neoplan artics and the WMATA Orion Vs and VIs all have the same engine, but sound different, yet have a similiar base sound (although the Neo artics and the Orion VIs sound alike in my opinion). The NABIs have that nice hun (whir, whatever) and the Neoplan artics/VIs have that high wine (that I also like). However, take away the whirs and the hums (like the Orion V engine) and they'll sound exactly alike.
as matter as fact the new flyer#5401 sound like the nabi but with out the hum.
Where are SEPTA's breeze buses? I know that there are some on LUCY, but are they still dominating some routes? I know the 95 used to use them, and then others. However, the El Dorados seem to be replacing them as well as the BPs. Is this the end for the breeze mini-buses already, before I even got to ride one?
Where are SEPTA's breeze buses? the breeze buses has been spot
on phalsh,whirrl,133,95,and lucy sometimes.
some breeze buses move to other depots after the eldorado's came.
They are rarely on the 95, I'm sure, since it is now run with El Dorados and apparently they used a Neoplan 40 footer. Anyway, maybe I'll see a few when I start using it regularly.
The Breeze Cutaway buses also see service on RTE's 35,204,208,and 314.
not to mansion the 304,and 305
Not really. The 92/133 still sees a mix of Eldorados and Breeze buses. (Side note: The 2:50pm trip from Exton Mall to West Chester saw Breeze 2043 - and took 18 passengers. The 133 from Exton to King of Prussia saw Eldorado 4520 - and took about 4-5 passengers.) The 127-130 buses in Bucks County see a few Breeze buses from time to time, but it's mostly Eldorados, however 40-ft buses still seem to dominate on the 127 between Neshaminy, Ox Val, and Trenton. The 311 Commonwealth Breeze bus between Willow Grove and Horsham still use Breeze buses AFAIK, as do a couple of 310 trips. A couple of ex-LUCY assigned Breeze buses - 2056 and 2057 - see service on the Phlash Center City service (which is contracted by the City of Philadelphia to SEPTA's Trenton-Philadelphia Coach division based at Germantown).
i also seen brezze 133 at king of prussia.
I think breeze buses are being used on the 10 trolley shuttle too.
cellspacing="4">
Special Election
Results
Union Facility Ballot, May
14, 2001
Village
Jamaica
Stengel
TOTALS
Remain Renting
133
22
30
185
Rent Elsewhere
77
29
46
152
Purchase Property
48
134
164
364
Election facts submitted for your consideration:
There were 258 total votes from Queens Village Depot.
There were 185 total votes from Jamaica Depot.
There were 240 total votes from Casey Stengel Depot.
There were 683 total votes from ATU Local 1056.
There are roughly 1700 members of ATU Local 1056.
Of 1700 members, only 683 thought this election important.
683 of your Brothers and Sisters decided your future.
What is this vote on exactly and where did u get the info from?
Does 1056 have a website??
The Amalgamated Transit Union Local 1056 held a "Special Facility Election" on Monday, May 14th at the 3 Queens NYCTA Bus depots open to both Transportation and Maintenence members. The election was to determine the future facility for our Union headquarters. The 3 options were (1) Remain in Current Rental Location; (2) Seek Another Rental Facility; and (3) Seek a Property to Purchase (which may or may not have an existing structure).
The election results posted were obtained from official ATU Local 1056 letterhead, and were posted throughout the 3 garages.
The ATU Local 1056 does not have it's own website at this time. The ATU does however have a website, however this information, specific to Local 1056 will not be included there.
Information regarding this "Special Election" may be found here.
I was very dissatisfied with the outcome of the vote. Since I have no problem telling people what I voted for, I will just say it. I voted to look for another place to rent. Reason: building another place for union headquaters is going to be very expensive and transit is not going to fund it obviously. What will happen is EVERY union member is now going to get kicked in the head with higher union dues to offset the price of the new building. While I do support certain union dues, our brothers and sisters SHOULD NOT have to be stuck with the burden of having to pay for a new building if we don't have to. The obvious choice which would have been much more benificial to the ATU-1056 members would have been to seek out another place to rent. What is a new building going to do for us that a rental can't? However, I have a feeling this was not all explained to the members and most of the people did not even understand the situation before they voted.
BIG AL
You and I share the same feelings regarding this fiasco, Al, however the Union has spoken, so now we move on. I believe that once the membership witnesses and understands the next stages of this proposition, which includes monetary funding reports and the like, the "euphoria" of owning a facility will turn to cautious optomism, to say the very least.
Further, it's my personal opinion that the preceding meetings and information issued were purposely general and vague, without benefit of concise detail so that the membership could vote using the tools of knowledge, but rather with the grandeur of the personal feelings of a few.
I can tell you that Queens Village was well represented at the evening session of the Facility meeting. I can also tell you that Jamaica and Stengel were not. Having been witness to the evening session, which comprised 70% Queens Village membership, it was ugly to say the least. We received no straight-forward answers from our leadership, and were given no game plan from which to decide.
I'm pretty sure we can agree that Stengel has been, and probably will remain the "swing vote" during this current leadership. The results from both Jamaica and Queens Village were expected (personally by myself, and throughout the general concensus of the membership), however the heavy turnout from Stengel was not what I expected. I did expect more of a split, not the lopsided outcome we had. Obviously, Stengel was privy to information we were not (G).
It's all about politics... but now we move on.
Apparently the membership believes our money is best spent on owning a facility rather than anything else.
Interestingly enough, those retirees who remain active dues-paying members, who will initially fund this project, were given no voice in the matter. Go figure.
Special Election Results
Union Facility Ballot, May 14, 2001
Village
Jamaica
Stengel
TOTALS
Remain Renting
133
22
30
185
Rent Elsewhere
77
29
46
152
Purchase Property
48
134
164
364
Election facts submitted for your consideration:
There were 258 total votes from Queens Village Depot.
There were 185 total votes from Jamaica Depot.
There were 240 total votes from Casey Stengel Depot.
There were 683 total votes from ATU Local 1056.
There are roughly 1700 members of ATU Local 1056.
Of 1700 members, only 683 thought this election important.
683 of your Brothers and Sisters decided your future.
According to today's Newsday, starting May 29th there will be a new route (S-71) starting in the Moriches and heading north on Nicholls Road to service Suffolk County CC and ending at the Stony Brook LIRR station. Headways are 90 minutes and the route is over 30 miles long. Hopefully no Gilligs will be used so the buses can make it to the end of the route.
Also other routes will have increased service and longer hours. The S-1 from Halesite to Amityville will now run until 10 PM.
I don't know how to set up a link but the address is:
http://www.newsday.com/news/skybot/li/sunday/nd8320.htm
The story is under a title called "Stop & Go". Also an ad for a camera jumps in front. If that happens just click to go back one site and you should be okay.
Until next time,
Hart Bus
Yes, and where did Suffolk County get the money to do this ?
The article says the Fed.s gave it to them.
There are some studys going on all over LI. Most of the recomendations would result in wider/more roads & bus service. No mention in what I've read about any kind of increased rail service.
Mr t__:^)
That's because:
1) the MTA and DOT are both state agencies, but might as well be Macy's and Gimbels, unlike NJDOT and NJT, which are related. Also, MTA and DOT are overseen by different commitees in the state legislature.
2) The LIRR has no plans to double or triple-track anything, to say nothing of electrification.
3) The LIRR will glom all the region's rail capital funding to build East Side access for the next 10 years for the sole benefit of increasing ridership 10%,
4) East Side access can be done on the cheap by routing trains to the west side of the upper level, which is do-able since GCT is very under-utilized but MNRR and LIRR are not on speaking terms either, and MNRR would not give the LIRR the time of day. Dysfunctional parent MTA
is just as stupid now as they were in 1968.
What now for COACH USA, a lot of you guys have them Dead and Buried.
The parent company of COACH USA, Stagecoach UK was founded in the early 80's by brother and sister Brian Souter and Ann Gloag. They bought their first bus a 13 year old coach for £425, within 3 week's of it's purchase the £425 had been recouped---Stagecoach was born.
Within 2 year's they were buying brand new Neoplan Skyliners for Scotland-London Express work.
Bus De-regulation in the UK when the government sold National Bus Companies to Private operator's allowed Stagecoach to expand even further. Yep they got a reputation for being ruthless and at times they were, but they also had a positive side. They inherited a lot of "tired" elderly buses during this period and as a company started a MASSIVE fleet replacement programme-- which in no small part saved the British Bus Building industry. New bus order's in their HUNDRED'S
transformed the age profile of the fleet and gave the bus user in the UK bright modern buses to travel in.
A lot of bus enthusiast's didnt like the company usally because Stagecoach applied their Livery to eveything they owned. But I reckon
history will prove that Stagecoach did more good thing's than bad thing's. They offered shareownership to their workers includin a BOGOF
scheme(buy one get one free).
Some of their overseas companies have faired better than other's HONG KONG,SWEDEN,NEW ZEALAND, MALAWI, CANADA and the USA Stagecoach have operated in them all. Their biggest operation is COACH USA and according to reports on this site may be their biggest failure. I for one hope this is not the case. I am amazed that some of you giys seem to be happy with this, is it because it is foreign owned. Plenty of US bus lines have had troubled times, in fact how many of YOUR local MTA's could survive without YOUR tax dollar's bailing them out-not many.
Brian Souter is a VERY shrewd and able business man. He has achieved a lot. He was in the Big Apple a couple of weeks ago unveiling the NEW
Grayline Open Toppers as usual leading from the front.
The consequences of COACH USA failing will afect a lot of people in America, driver's, mechanic's and outside suppliers will all be affected, the knock on effect could be massive. So please guys dont be smug about COACH USA it could happen to your company next.
YOUR country need's good public transport, COACH USA cannot be allowed to fail.
Thanks for the positive comments about Stagecoach UK. The recent posts about Coach USA headed for doom are just speculation. I guess there's no surprise that they are in trouble, but that doesn't necessarily mean doom. The US bankruptcy laws encourage reorganization of companies, so Coach USA may stay alive even if it has to declare bankruptcy. Hasn't Greyhound been through bankruptcy a few times? I think the busfan dislike of Coach USA pre-dates its acquisition by a non-U.S. entity. The substitution of uniform Coach USA colors for the previous diversity of fleet by the original operators is but one reason for such dislike.
I'm not saying that I think Coach USA will definitely survive. But I don't think it's fair to say, at this point, that it will definitely disappear either.
I also meant to say that passengers do have to push bars on the back doors of the 8000 series Neoplans to open them. Same goes for the Volvo artics, which are now retired.
The last couple of days people have been E-mailing me stories about the Q17 going to other depots for various reasons.I will now try to set the story straight. As you know, in the past, I have been posting about Jamaica depot moving to JFK airport. These plans now seem to be sinking fast due to political anti-transit reasons. Either NYC or the Port Authority no longer wants us to be situated in JFK airport. To keep a long story short and simple, nobody wants us period! Transit is now turning to the only feasable (and most likely) choice. Tear down Jamaica depot and build a new one in the same spot. Thus the birth of the Q17 stories. If and when Jamaica is torn down, the Q17 would be transferred temporarily to C.S. depot, since one end of the line is right near them also. There would be no lost money in dead head time, which makes sense. Besides C.S. depot getting the Q17 they would also get one half the total number of buses in Jamaica depot along with one half the total number of operators, which would still be working the Jamaica lines. In other words, these buses and operators will be sharing the Casey Stengel depot building with the actual C.S. buses and operators. The other half of the operators and buses in Jamaica depot will be sent to Q.V. depot to share the depot with them, but once again they will still work the Jamaica lines. Please do not ask me how Q.V. will store about 100 extra buses, however this should not be a problem at the C.S. facility. Once the new Jamaica depot is completed, everybody will move back to Jamaica along with the Q17!!!
NOW, BEFORE EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD BOMBARDS ME WITH QUESTIONS, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY NONE OF THIS IS SET IN STONE, HOWEVER IT IS NOW THE MOST LIKELY SCENARIO AND THE REASON WHY THE Q17 MAY BE HEADING TO C.S DEPOT SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE, BUT NOT BY SUMMER OF 2001.
BIG AL
Please do not ask me how Q.V. will store about 100 extra buses, however this should not be a problem at the C.S. facility.
The NYCTA will violate their agreement with the Community Board and store buses outside the facility, probably utilizing the employee parking lot, the 97th Avenue apron, and the rear-maintenence area.
Thanks, Big AL
Q17#9265Mike
It will be interesting to see if they mix the Orions and RTS's at CS during the Jamaica depot construction. It would be nice to see RTS's (besides 4448)on the CS routes and Orions on some of the Jamaica routes, even temporarily.
run 3 on the 74 has had 4448 every day since last wednesday for his first half
Thanks BIG AL. It should be noted that prior to Queens Village Depot opening in the mid-1970's, Queens routes were operated by Jamaica and Flushing (now Casey Stengel) Depots. Looks like history will repeat itself somewhat. While I must stress that nothing is official, the likely scenario would have most of JAM's routes shifted to QV, with the Q17 going to CS. Stengel would also receive a few of QV northernmost routes. Well, thats enough of the specualtion on my part (I know better).
JUST WAIT AND SEE WHAT, IF ANYTHING, HAPPENS!! AGAIN I STRESS NOTHING IS OFFICIAL AND NOTHING IS EVEN ON THE DRAWING BOARD, SO CHILL.
Actually, even though it is not official, it is on the drawing board. From what I hear, management & the union have been talking quite seriously about it the last few weeks. Also, Sid from NJ asked if the Orions & RTS's would be mixed. I can tell you already that would not happen as the Jamaica operators are not accustomed to driving Orions. In fact, most likely, the Jamaica RTS's will probably keep their Jamaica depot logos on them the whole time they run out of QV and Stengel. Even from a route pick standpoint, Jamaica operators will still pick only the Jamaica runs and the same for the other two depots. We will only be sharing the roofs.
BIG AL
I believe these two are making schedule changes this week. The service from New Britain, CT to New York City will get worse. For example, the 10:20 AM bus I take now is an express which gets to Port Authority at 12:45 PM. Strating Wednesday or Thursday, this route may become the local from hell, stopping in Middletown, Meriden, New Haven, Bridgeport, Stamford and White Plains. (There would now be an 11:20 express bus to follow, arriving in NYC at 1:45 PM.) In other words, has your service gone downhill ever since these two "merged" in 1999? I'd like to know.
We went on Saturday. Much to our disappointment, there were several buses missing from previous roadeos: the 1962 Fishbowl (2151, I think), the 1969 and 1974 Flxibles, and probably others. Maybe they were there yesterday instead? The drivers' seats were taped off as they were for the September '00 Busfest.
Contrary to advance notice, there were NO shuttles from Pelham Bay station. I asked a dispatcher by the BX12 stop, who told me the Roadeo shuttles would be over the bridge on the east service road up against the park. Maybe he thought I meant the seasonal Orchard Beach BX5 and 12 service (witness the blank look he gave me when I mentioned the Roadeo), but he should have known that wouldn't start till next weekend.
After a good long wait, we hopped the BX29 and walked from the traffic circle. Hard to believe that wooded, rural area is New York City, let alone the Bronx. As we entered the parking lot, an RTS marked 'BX12 SUBWAY SHUTTLE' was pulling out of the loop from the bathhouse. We never saw that again in the three hours we were at the Fest and on the beach.
Did anyone go either day?
This years roadeo was off the meat rack. Having the shorty rock GMC fishbowl there was a definate surprise and we were definately impressed with the Mobile Command Unit (Bus #4149).
Around 3:15pm, The Historical Museum Fleet began its pull out back to their perspective garages. Watching the Old Look #3100 take off was a definate treat, it sounded very much like a fishbowl and smooth. Then after that Flxible #5117 & the MCI 2162 took off. Followed by this was all of the Jackie Gleason jewels (GMC #8466, GMC #5227, New Flyer #901, RTS #1201 and Flxible #236). The TransiTALK staff members was offered a ride on Flxible #236 or GMC #5227 back to Jackie Gleason. Did we turn it down, HELL NO. We picked #236. Below is a link to the page of photos taken during the ride back to Jackie Gleason (For Proof). This bus rode like a dream. The only thing is that it needed transmission fluid but outside of that, IT WAS A GREAT RIDE!!!!!
Link To The Trip Photos
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
No doubt. It was a good ride. I had fun. It sure did bring back memories. But 5227 was GONE!!!!!. We caught up to it at the toll plaza but after that, we never seen it again until we got back to the depot. I wish I had my video camera with me. If 236 only had that tranny fluid. But all in all it was a good ride.
Great job Trevor! SIGH! If only it had been the RTS that had problems and not the other way around. Bus #236 looks as modern today as it did back in 1979. From a driver's standpoint, even though I never drove them, they look so much more ergonomically friendly then the wretched RTS. Who knows, Flxible might still even be in business if it had NYCTA as a steady customer. Oh well, what's done is done. The RTS walked the walk and the Flxible didn't.
236 looks as good as it did they day I rode it back in 1980. Of course the wheels were painted blue at that time
Wayne
The RTS could have had 100 problems and it still would've done the roadeo and then some.
IF the RTS ever had that problem no one would care, it's an RTS, it can handle itself. :-)
The whole wheel was blue? I thought it was just the hubs....anyone able to confirm? I may be doing a model of 236 soon....let me know if anyone may be interested. :)
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
[The whole wheel was blue? I thought it was just the hubs....anyone able to confirm? I may be doing a model of
236 soon....let me know if anyone may be interested. :)]
Oh - yes. Originally the whole wheel was dark blue matching the rest of the blue on the 870's. The TA started painting the wheels white w/blue centers after the 870's returned to service. At the time I remember seeing some 1975 Flxibles (still in two-tone blue) from ENY with their wheels painted white/blue center.
Wayne
As much as I love the RTS I still count the 870/Metro among my favorites, and I can't help but to think how much different Flxible's fortunes might have been if it wasn't for that initial flap. Not to say that it was _the_ cause of Flxible's demise (we can thank General Automotive's bloodsucking for that) but I do think we would have had ourselves a nice battle for ADB supremacy between it and the RTS.
you think we can get a ride like that at the Bus festival on july 4?
CHANCES.....HONESTLY.......
SLIM TO NONE!
The staff members that rode are also Transit Employees!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
It looks to me that 1201 has a rear destination sign from the pictures. If it does, why put it on it?
No, it has no rear destination sign!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I was there on Saturday morning and it seemed like a small showing - less than a dozen buses - a couple of old looks, a couple of new looks, the old flexi and the new.
In years past, there was more to see.
I was there on Saturday. It was my first Roadeo, and I was a little disappointed at the low speeds involved ;). I drove, so I came & went for a few hours. I especially liked the way the artic was parked, bent, because from one angle, it looks like it has no front half! My digital pictures are up; 35mm shots will join them eventually.
I never knew 8602 had no rear door. Was this one of the MSBA Suburbans that NYC kept after the Grumman Crisis?
No This bus was choped down from a Standard TA 40' Fishbowl, The entire bus is modified, including that no rear door thing!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
If it was cut from the MTA NYC Transit 40 Foot GM New Look. Then why did the YELLOW Lights on the top front of the bus is GONE??!!
Not every GMC New Look ordered by the City have the "Emergency Call Police" Lamps. That's Why! There is a few Museum buses with out the lamps if you look and learn your rosters!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The New Looks from the Early 1960's did not have those Yellow Lights on the front top of the bus and the A/C Unit in the back was not there. The 1971-1972 New Looks where the ones with those yellow lights and the 1965 New Looks where retrofited with them.
EXACLTLY
SO if you knew that, why did you make the original comment????? Makes no dag-on sense.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I was just asking why that New Look did not have those YELLOW Light's on the top front part of the bus. Why it was not there? That New Look have A/C. And it was cut off from a New Look eather from 1965,1971,or 1972 New Look from the MTA. It should be on there.
Actually, the 1968 model T6H-5305A in the 8800/8900 series were the first NYCTA buses that came with the yellow lights. If 8602 was the original number of the bus that was cut down, then that was a 1966 model TDH-5303A, same as 8466 museum bus.
I'll still be at the 5:30 boat for those that still want to go to the wilds of Staten Island. I'm meeting Thurston at Flushing 4pm for the trip to the Ferry in anyone in intrested.
I will be cut off from the internet for the rest of the day so see you then.
I might see you guys as I will be spending the entire day in SI. Plan to go to the mall.
While i finish my ridecheck with the driver run #002 on M66 & he pull in into Depot after he finish the route. I got off the bus & i walk inside the the 126th St Depot than i saw GMC-RTS #3887 with MJQ Logo on it so i took a look inside & they still have soft seat. I wonder why the bus doing in 126th St Depot???? Any way also i saw #3893 in front of the depot with soft seat. BTW: i have a good time at bus roadeo & i meet trevor, mike & other people who were at the bus roadeo.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation
i saw #3828 this morning on the M3-now has the hard seats inside and is missing the famous MTA label in front-looked good and saw #4211 on the M8 a few days ago-anybody who misses the old window setup on the RTS buses should check this one out as it still has them.
Add 3895 to a once soft seater now hard seater as I saw her about a month and a half ago.
126th Street has become a dumping ground for MaBSTOA garbage. Putting express coaches on local routes is a royal pain in the ass. You have to constantly answer the same stupid questions over and over again. If these buses no longer are needed in express service then they should either be scrapped or converted to hard seaters.
SUBTALK LIVE THIS SATURDAY
May 26, 2001
7:30 PM ETBusTalkers are welcome, too!SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
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See this is how it all started!
I answered you on SubTalk.
Please don't post the same response on both BusTalk and SubTalk.
Anybody know of any NJ Transit or other maps of New Jersey bus routes, especially in the Essex-Bergen-Hudson-Passaic region?
I actually have THREE (3) such maps.
Two are county-produced maps of Essex and Passaic.
The other is actually an NJ Transit-produced map of Newark bus routes! It is titled "Newark Transit Guide" and on the front is the same picture as on the NJT website.
However, all of these are at least 10 years old and outdated (which is a plus for me since I am big on old transit stuff - see below),
BUT, I'd like to know if current, up-to-date versions of NJ bus maps exist anywhere.
Also, anybody know where I can get hold of old (early-mid-late 1980's) NJ Transit bus schedules, or even schedules of other NJ companies, such as DeCamp, Lakeland, Community, etc.
Thanks.
i collection schedules and bus maps.i have every njt schedules
for every route.
starting from 1989.
btw:I have have some green njt schedules too
There's a decent HBLR map, if that counts.
Other than that, I was very unimpressed on my recent perusal of the NJT web page. No maps. No fares. Basically, none of the information I was looking for. The web site may be fine for someone who makes the same commute every day and just wants to check the schedule, but it's pretty useless for occasional or one-time riders.
Well.
The Route 126 Timetable have the fares on it. If you can't find the fares and you need to use that route. Call up NJ Transit. That's what I did when I wanted to ride Route 2 from Journal Square to the end of the line. It cost's to ride that route is about $1.55 for those of you want to know.
The website will be re-launched from scratch in about a month or so.
It will be 1,000% improved. I've seen a demo.
NJT doesn't really print bus maps, just those schematics by county, and only some counties, whose purpose is to show hubs and connections, not routes.
There is a Bus Map of Middlesex Cty and 1 of Newark ,,The Middlesex Cty is fairly New
Add to that the Hudson Cty Map done a few years back
I also have a Mercer Cty Bus Map .
There used to be a Bergen County Transit Map which hadn't been updated in a long time. You might try calling the Bergen County Transit Information Center to see if they have any. My Map says the number is (201) 488-0840, but I believe it was changed within the past year or two to (201) 336-6450.
Tonight if I'm lucky, maybe just maybe I'll get a Flxible Metro B Suburban or a Volvo B-10M Suburban on the 159. If not, I'll just a local Nova on the 84.
D4000 Cruiser
Today.
I got a RTS #4448 on Q74. It left KG at 8:35 AM. I was surprise to see a RTS on Q74. As I never rode a RTS on Q74 since 1996. Back in 1996. When my sister was getting out of Middle School. And the thing was being held in Queens Collage. Back in 1996. I got a 1981 GM RTS #1205 on Q74.
And after #4448 left the Courthouse stop on Q74. #4448 was doing 45 MPH!!
Q74 GM RTS#4448
Q74 GM RTS#1205
I saw that same RTS on the Q27 a while ago. #4448 is now a regular at the Stengel Depot.
4448 has been used on the first half by run 3 on the 74 since last week.
On my way into work this morning, I saw a filming at Madison Ave & 28 St with PA4199. The number on the front was covered with blue tape, and there's a platform or lift attached to the rear. I took a few photos and posted them on my Miscellaneous page; see the last four thumbnails. Also, note the Flatbush decal by the front door and Castleton on the rear left side.
That is originally Bus #1848. That is the Picture Cars Bus. Its been making alot of appearances lately.
Regards
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Sorry, Bus #1648, My bad on the typo.
Thanks for the correction. I noticed on the roster that the "real" 4199 went to Nimco; I just figured the production company got it from there. Leave it to Hollywood, trying to make a bus look four years younger than it actually is ;).
If they wanted to make it look younger than it actually is they should change the logos.
Peace,
ANDEE
Just to add more. The real 4199 was not a "PA" unit. PA buses were in the 1981, All 1982, most 1983 and a few of the 1986 RTS's.
Wayne
also as many of you know 1848 lives on in use for hospital audiences inc and garaged at jackie gleason depot. it serves all its transit service at ulmer park depot.
Does anybody have a collection of old NYC Bus Maps to send me for no charge? Please Response.
how old??
I have a couple of 80's Queens Bus Maps if you'd like. They're not in the best condition however. They were found in an abandoned locker at the garage. Email me your address and I'll send them.
Over the past few years, I have seen runs on Septa routes 29 and 79 being covered by Neoplan EB's from Southern district instead of by trackless trolleys. Most of these runs have been on the weekend and late evening. Does anyone know what this is a sign of? Is it budget cuts, difficulty in maintaining the trackless trolley fleet, low ridership (btw, do the trackless trolleys have more seats than regular diesel buses?), or all three? And if Septa keeps this bus substitution up, is there any chance that the Eldorados will soon start appearing on these routes? Finally, does anyone know if Septa has made plans to replace their trackless trolleys in the next few years, or at all?
SEPTA is currently looking at New Electric Trolley Buses similar to those running in San Francisco by AAI Industries.
Here is a URL to AAI's Home Page:
http://www.aaicorp.com/transportation/index2a.htm
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I also heard Skoda was in the running as well.
Skoda is the same thing. AAI and Skoda are working on the same bus. Miami Valley RTA has the same bus also!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The actual company doing the San Francisco ETB's is Electric Transit, a partnership of AAI Corp and Skoda. Skoda builds the bodies and AAI finishes them.
I don't know if there are problems maintaining the trackless trolleys at SEPTA, since the ones operating out of Frankford seem to be running fine. Part of the problems with the ETBs at Southern may not be equipment or ridership related. I know there had been a lot of street work in the areas where the 29 (Tasker & Morris Sts) and 79 (Snyder Av) operate, but mainly on the 29.
i think that south philly have problems mantaining thay trackless-trolley.
>>(btw, do the trackless trolleys have more seats than regular diesel buses?)<<
Any bus of the "Fishbowl" era will have more seats than any bus of the ADB era. The AM General seats 51 (53 if it had a narrow center door), the Neoplans seat 48.
I've forgot one factor. I was referring to the non-wheelchair lift equipped Suburban Neoplans (which has double seats on both sides). All other Neoplans seating capacity goes downhill from there.
I must have miscounted the seating capacities then... I know for a near certain fact that the City style Neos seat 40-41, while the Suburban Neos seat 42-44. The Trackless Trolleys seat 46.
Here are some things I have noticed the last few days.
TMC RTS 8311 in service on S74 in Off Peak Time. This is a YUK bus on a now CAS route. Any ideas why?
Orion V 128 and 149 in EXPRESS service - Repowered out of CAS.
An Ulmer Park driver of Nova RTS Suburban had balls when it came to make the turn at the end of Broadway and Battery Place where the triangle is. Instead of waiting in line, he drove the bus as he was going straight to the ferry and then made the right to go to the tunnel, going around the triangle. I don't think he would have done it with an MCI.
MCIs and Suburbans still are running with EXPRESS PR sign on during their routes. The buses are mainly from UP, but very few are from CAS and YUK.
Make up your mind when it comes to depots.
2068 - on the X14 - a CAS bus with YUK decals on it????
2023 - on the X3 - a CAS bus on a mainly YUK route - and don't say they were short - there are plenty of MCIs left in the morning.
2152 - on the X10 - a YUK bus on a CAS route? I never heard of that split before.
Well I think it's the beginning of the end of Queens Blvd for any bus that runs along Queens Blvd-especially the Q60. Despite taking the Q60 today off peak-had 276 which was not a bad ride, motorists are not used to 1 lane traffic and not used to the other lane being used for parking which will cause headaches for many for quite a while until people get adjusted to it. Today while on 4324 on Q46, I noticed that people thought there was traffic passed 77 Ave when in reality there were parked cars. Also noticed the signs-no parking wb from 730am-8am?! That's all? Rush hour goes well past 8am especially around 77 Ave-try like 9am. Who decided this about Queens Blvd anyway-I think the idea sucks-I can see it now around Christmas time near 63 Dr-with 2 lanes it takes 15 minutes to get past the 63 Dr light westbound. 1 lane of traffic try 30 minutes. And all of this "garbage" because people don;t know how to cross a damn street. Doesn't anybody learn anything in school-cross on green not in between? Guess nowadays they don't.
I will say 1 + about this though-parking will be a bit easier. But I still say it's dumb.
BTW Isn't this "dumb" method used on Eastern Pkwy in Brooklyn too?
Want to kill time-take Queens Blvd the Blvd where they fly over you at the slowest speed possible.
Q60#243Gary
PS Sorry bout the crudeness but I think this issue about Queens Blvd just simply sucks! I'm sick and tired of hearing about it on the News every other day. If people weren't so damn stupid-ex-jaywalking then maybe JUST MAYBE this issue wouldn't be brought about so much. Just my opinion from a person that deals with this Blvd 7 days a week.
QTrainDash7 has his issues about LI Bus-my issue is about Queens Blvd.
Oh! You mean they went ahead with that crazy idea. I think it's going to be a disaster. I'll be sure to aviod Queens Blvd even more when I'm in NYC. The motorists have been blamed for vehicle/pedestrian accidents for a long time now, but I think many of these pedestrians are excercising poor judgement by stepping out in front of fast moving traffic.
Wayne
[You mean they went ahead with that crazy idea]
Yup. I've seen posts suitable to put parking meters on being placed along many sections of Queens Boulevard.
This crazy idea still has no way from keeping motorists from speeding down the main center lanes. Traffic in the service road will slow up and traffic will shift over to the center lanes to bypass the backup.
Yeah and I agree with you. Cars have too many perks. The situation around Flushing is much the same. One of the cheif reasons why the N20/21 run late is all that damn parking on northern blvd.
All these damn cars. I have an even greater idea. Ban cars from parking on major streets during rush hours. Let these car drivers take transit like they should!!!
As far as crossing Queens Blvd is concerned they should build pedestrian overpasses. I can't stand how traffic lights are set up to slow you down. Northern Blvd (in Queens and Nassau) is set up the same way so you miss every light, this also makes the traffic unbearable during rush hour. Some LI Bus drivers go through the lights sometimes and I don't blame them.
Yeah and I agree with you. Cars have too many perks. The situation around Flushing is much the same. One of the cheif reasons why the N20/21 run late is all that damn parking on northern blvd.
All these damn cars. I have an even greater idea. Ban cars from parking on major streets during rush hours. Let these car drivers take transit like they should!!!
In this case the cars have fewer perks. A lane of traffic on QB is much more useful to more people than a lane of parking. All parking on both sides of the QB service road should be banned. High density areas, if they want people to use cars to get there, build garages then. All new buildings should be built with garages. Nobody is going to take the bus, if there is no parking, just more business for Nasty County malls.
As far as crossing Queens Blvd is concerned they should build pedestrian overpasses.
There are already pedestrian underpasses where there are subway stations. But overpasses don't work, nobody would use them. They have to be high enough for truck traffic, so the stairways would have to wind around and the climb and descent would be time consuming. For ADA's sake, there would have to be elevators. In many cases, waiting for the light would be beneficial to using the overpass.
Something else about overpasses:
Overpasses in places like office complexes and hospitals work since people are going from building to building. Since they would have to go down and then back up again anyway, it is no bother to use the overpass. And you even have to go up and down less!
You don't want pedestrian overpasses.
Once an intersection has a pedestrian overpass, crossing at street level will be illegal (and lights will be retimed to make it difficult). If you want to cross, you will be forced to use the overpass. The light's green anyway? Sorry, gotta go over. Your knee hurts (like mine has all week)? Sorry, gotta go up and down, exacerbating the pain. In a wheelchair? Sorry, gotta go up the long, winding ramp.
Will the overpass be well-lit? Probably not once the first set of lights go out. Will it be kept clear of ice? Unlikely.
Pedestrian overpasses make sense to keep a few pedestrians out of the way of a lot of traffic. They don't make sense if pedestrian volumes are heavy.
How are the slip ramps from the main roadway treated? If parking is permitted on the left near the slip ramps, traffic crossing into the service road (a) is aimed directly into a row of parked cars and (b) has no view of the traffic it's about to merge with due to the parked cars in the way.
I think the idea was to encourage through traffic to stick to the main roadway, like on Ocean Parkway. With the volume of traffic and the slip ramps on QB (OP doesn't have slip ramps -- right turns are permitted from the main roadway and traffic reaches the service roads at intersections), it doesn't seem like the plan was fully thought through before it was enacted.
This fiasco is a disaster waiting to happen. As I sat at the light from the left-turn lane at Queens Blvd and 77th Avenue, there were no less than 4 cars that came to a screeching halt because of a single parked vehicle in the left lane of the service road. This at 5AM!
More importantly, as David touched upon, the left lane now impedes the visibility of cars entering the slip from the main roadway into the service road. There's no safe way for traffic to merge, since visibility is obstructed.
Another problem will be trucks and deliveries. How can a truck deliver parcels if there are cars parked on both sides of the service road? Forget for a moment the legality (or illegality) of double-parking. It's "understood" that trucks make deliveries, and that they double-park when necessary. I can forsee trucks (and of course, garbage trucks, oil trucks, etc.) stopping right in midst flow to do their business, backing up traffic until they have completed their deliveries. Of course, the traffic will attempt to illegally enter the main road to circumvent the backup.
Someone please explain the thought process that went into this disaster!!
I don't remember a program enacted that will cause more harm than good in the name of political agenda. This is absurd... I'm calling Gridlock Sam!
With regards to overpasses, they are too costly and would be severly under-utilized. I don't see pedestrian overpasses in the near future on Queens Blvd.
I do forsee more accidents and incidents as a result of this ridiculous new program.
To be continued....
I predict this stupidity will end once and for all..
a) by the end of 2001
b) after a pedestrian is killed walking out from in front of a parked car on the left side of the service road
c) when traffic impedes emergency response and it leads directly to a death (i.e FDNY unable to get to a fire in a timely fashion)
d) all of the above
I'm not sure that truck deliveries will be a real problem. Aren't the Queens Boulevard service roads about the width of side streets? Trucks double-park on side streets all the time and traffic has room to squeeze by, even buses and other trucks (assuming the first truck bothered to pull over all the way and didn't double-park across from another double-parked truck or car, as sometimes happens). If I'm wrong and the service roads are narrower than side streets, then I'll grant you this point.
If NYCDOT wants to turn Queens Boulevard into an Ocean Parkway, they should go all the way: close the slip ramps, put stop signs on the service roads at intersections instead of traffic signals, and allow right turns from the main roadway. By necessity, buses would run on the main roadway -- I can just imagine how other drivers would react to buses stopping in a travel lane (probably about as well as I reacted when the car in front of me on the West Side Highway stopped in the travel lane to buy a hot dog, or about as well as I reacted when the cab in front of me stopped in the left lane of Broadway to pick up a fare from the median). Even putting aside the bus issue, I expect this would cause major traffic problems, since it would be effectively reducing throughput by two lanes in each direction.
And, apparently, although it's prettier, OP hasn't fared much better on its pedestrians than QB.
The fundamental problem is that a wide street like QB isn't compatible with an area with heavy pedestrian volumes. Planners should have implemented the Manhattan solution, a one-way couplet, which would have placed a full block between EB and WB traffic and would have given traffic in both directions properly timed signals, guaranteeing green indefinitely to any traffic that moves at the speed limit. (That would also self-enforce the speed limit.) Since traffic wouldn't hit red lights, intersections could be place closely, and pedestrians would be able to safely cross every block. (Never mind that the Manhattan solution postdates QB by many decades, and it's too late now to implement it.)
I'm not sure that truck deliveries will be a real problem. Aren't the Queens Boulevard service roads about the width of side streets? Trucks double-park on side streets all the time and traffic has room to squeeze by, even buses and other trucks (assuming the first truck bothered to pull over all the way and didn't double-park across from another double-parked truck or car, as sometimes happens). If I'm wrong and the service roads are narrower than side streets, then I'll grant you this point.
I'm not entirely sure either. It was hard to judge because I turn off just before the meters begin. I know that when the Q-46 "double-stands", there's room enough for only one lane of traffic on the left. If there were cars parked in that left lane, I do not believe traffic could flow. We'll see.
If NYCDOT wants to turn Queens Boulevard into an Ocean Parkway, they should go all the way: close the slip ramps, put stop signs on the service roads at intersections instead of traffic signals, and allow right turns from the main roadway. By necessity, buses would run on the main roadway --
The main difference here is that Ocean Parkway is strictly residential, whereas Queens Blvd is mostly commercial. Also, most trucks avoid OP and use either CIA or Ocean Ave, rather than get "stuck" in the service lane of OP, chosing to use Beverly Rd as the access road to NY27 (Prospect Expwy).
That aside, the Q-46 couldn't use the main roadway because that would effectively place all passengers in jeopardy when crossing between the light at the Kew Gardens Station, defeating the purpose alltogether!
I can just imagine how other drivers would react to buses stopping in a travel lane (probably about as well as I reacted when the car in front of me on the West Side Highway stopped in the travel lane to buy a hot dog, or about as well as I reacted when the cab in front of me stopped in the left lane of Broadway to pick up a fare from the median).
Well that's a given.
How about the reaction from people on the bus who want to get to work (or wherever), and are sitting on an idling bus that is blocked by trucks making deliveries. Strictly from a safety standpoint, if it's too narrow, I wouldn't even try to get through.
Even putting aside the bus issue, I expect this would cause major traffic problems, since it would be effectively reducing throughput by two lanes in each direction.
I agree.
And, apparently, although it's prettier, OP hasn't fared much better on its pedestrians than QB.
I think that depends on the section of OP you're discussing. I would tend to disagree because OP has a built-in pedestrian mall, bike path, guard rails, and traffic signage at every intersection. It also doesn't "move" the amount of pedestrian traffic that QB does.
The fundamental problem is that a wide street like QB isn't compatible with an area with heavy pedestrian volumes. Planners should have implemented the Manhattan solution, a one-way couplet, which would have placed a full block between EB and WB traffic and would have given traffic in both directions properly timed signals, guaranteeing green indefinitely to any traffic that moves at the speed limit. (That would also self-enforce the speed limit.) Since traffic wouldn't hit red lights, intersections could be place closely, and pedestrians would be able to safely cross every block. (Never mind that the Manhattan solution postdates QB by many decades, and it's too late now to implement it.)
Interesting idea, however when these thoroughfares were laid-out, I doubt that the planners envisioned the over-capacity of volume we have today. OTOH a better idea might have been to create a limited-access roadway, such as Montauk Hwy or Sunrise Hwy.
Anyway, you're right. It's too late for QB...
>>How are the slip ramps from the main roadway treated?
From what I've seen, the slip ramps from the main road have approximately half a block of "No Standing" zones before and after the actual slip ramp. One can forsee the vehicles "just waiting for someone for a minute" sitting in the "No Standing" zones before the slip ramp causing a very nasty side impact collision. It's only a matter of time.
I just had this confirmed by a surface instructor at Midvale...
The SEPTA Roadeo will be held on Saturday, June 23 at Veterans Stadium. Usually, SEPTA goes out of it's way to bring a lot of it's equipment - past and present - to their Roadeo, not to mention buses from other systems (ie. DART First State, NJT, etc).
OK.
I might come. I would have to ask my MOM and DAD first. And I hope the New Flyer D40LF and the 30 Foot ElDorado would be there. And I hopeing the NJ Transit MCI D4000 will be there also.
the new flyer should be there.
< font color=Green >
I want to take photos of that bus so QUILCKLY!! And who else might come too?
Greyhound usually sends a D4500 (the artist formerly known as the 102DL3) to the SEPTA Roadeo. In addition to DART First State and NJT, Krapf's usually sends one of it's buses not leased to them by SEPTA. Neoplan has often sent a demo bus to the event, since their NeoPart subsidiary is located in Honey Brook Twp - about an hour away via the PA Turnpike and I-76. For the last couple of years, a busfan from the Baltimore area brings his historic ex-Baltimore Old Look. There are also quite a few school buses from the School District of Philadelphia on display as well.
I want to take photos of that bus so QUILCKLY!! And who else might come too?
Will the 35 foot neoplan will be there?
Maybe a 35 Foot Neoplan would be there. And/Or #8698 would be there.
Just wondering is this roadeo open to the public or is admission restricted to Transit employees?
It's open to the public, however it's mostly SEPTA employees who attend. I don't think you'll have any problems getting in. This will be my 5th SEPTA Roadeo that I've attended.
I hope to see you there. I hopeing I would come.
I will be in North Carolina during the SEPTA Roadeo, so I will not be able to come see the buses. All you bus webmasters, please get good pics at the event and share them!! Sure hope the New Flyer's there.
This year, I'll make sure of it. Last year, I did take pictures, but I lost my one-use camera. I won't make that same mistake again.
when was the roadeo last year?
it appears that the new flyer will not be there this year.
I have the Info on my NEWS Page. And make shure to look in the Bottom of my NEWS Page to see on the SEPTA Roadeo.
Click Here.
SUBTALK LIVE THIS SATURDAY
May 26, 2001
7:30 PM ETBusTalkers are welcome, too!SubTalk live is your chance to hold LIVE chats with other railfans and busfans. All are welcome and encouraged to join us for a fun evening!
As in any Internet forum or chatroom, certain polices and rules need to be created and enforced. SubTalk Live is no exception. The following policies are in effect at all times in the chatroom or when making posts on SubTalk and BusTalk pertaining to the chat:
1. ANY public transit related topic can be discussed (bus, subway, or railroad).
2. It is requested that you use your handle as your chat nickname.
3. OPs will be the sole people in the chat to deem a topic off subject and are the only people who can make announcements on SubTalk and BusTalk pertaining to the opening, closing, delay, cancellation, postponement, software, server, or technical difficulties with the chat. When in doubt over what you are about to do, don't do it! If you have a problem with any of the above issues, e-mail an operator. Please do not post on SubTalk or BusTalk!
4. Anyone who disrupts the chat in any way (scrolling, profanity, obscene remarks, constant chatting off-topic) will be punted.ARE YOU READY TO SUBTALK LIVE???
Just go to http://www.subtalklive.com and join in! If you use mIRC, do your thing!NOTE
It is strongly reccomended you enter the room and troubleshoot BEFORE Saturday night! If you encounter problems, e-mail an operator, do not post on SubTalk/BusTalk!WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU!
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MTA MCI 2007 in service on the X15. - I know that the X1-9 is usually split sometimes, but why a CAS MCI on a YUK route that is not split?
Orion V 159 (Not repowered) in Express service this morning out of CAS.
This morning, the HOV lane right off the Verrazanno was closed due to an accident. After 65th Street, the HOV was open and running.
I was on the X15 this morning about 7:30AM when there was a message to operator on the X12/17/19 to go to the city VIA NEW JERSEY. I know that the X17 usually does this, but not the X12/19. How would the route run? I saw X17s with the destination signs X17 DOWNTOWN WORTH STREET on Broadway, so I assume some went to E.MIDTOWN, while the others went south. But how would the 12 & 19 run? They don't have downtown signs? And what about the customers getting to where they needed to go?
all buses have the same signs
I'm sure the operators regardless of what route they are on in SI could figure out how to get to the goethals bridge and then the NJTP.
I believe i have heard express buses allowed to reroute to the ferry on accasions when, say, the VZ is closed or something crippling like that. At least they are giving the customers the option to use the ferry.
AS long as you do it with permission, it's perfectly OK.
C-Y-A
That'd be pretty cool, though pretty much defeating the whole purpose of the express bus service! No doubt, the bus would depart the boat on the Manhattan side with a lot less people than when it got on!
People would walk off and get the subway, or walk to their job.
Then again, you never know ("I PAID FOR AN EXPRESS BUS, AND I WANT AN EXPRESS BUS RIDE, BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!")
I don't think he meant that they actually go on the ferry, just reroute to the ferry, drop off people, and then go back to their respective depots.
nyct express buses do not board the ferry although about 15 years ago there was such an instance. buses may be rerouted through nj when traffic conditions cause extensive delays on gowanus. downtown buses exit tunnel at 34 st and proceed downtown via 9th av or bway. commuters are none too happy about the rerouting.
So this mean that the Express Buses go on the Ferry if the Bridge is closed?
I saw the following UP buses heading north on Kings Hwy:
9288,9290,9292,9293,9294,9295
I thought that might be heading to Queens for a transfer move but the buses made a right onto Flatbush Ave. Im not sure if they made a left onto Flatlnds as I kept going straight on Kings Hwy. Oh yeah, somehow 8932 got in the mix of these buses on the B82.
x27#9288Mike
x27#9290Mike
x28#9292Mike
x28#9293Mike
x29#9294Mike
x25#9295Mike
B82#8932Mike
I saw 9288 on the Q75 yesterday along with 9286 9287 and 1852.
Q75#9288Gary
So 1852 is back in service eh?
1852 was always in service. It is one of the 5 surviving 1982 RTS coaches (1740, 1751, 1767 and 1773 being the other three).
Mark
Don't forget 2660 on SI in service still after being reactivated.
YUK also has 2270 - 1981 RTS for school runs.
When #2270 first came to YUK.#2270 was used on S55/S56 at any time. Now #2270 is running on School Runs? Now what's next. #2270 would run on X1? I WISH THAT HAPPINS!! He!! He!! He!!
X1 GM RTS#2270
He was thinking of 1826 I think. 1852 is a slow piece of garbage. She will be the last to go. 3243 was a dog and she was the last 1983 RTS to depart QV. Prediction: 1852 WILL be the last 1982 RTS Suburban to leave not only QV but the road forever.
Q46#1852Gary
No, I WAS thinking 1852. I looked at a rent roster and it was listed as O/S. I remember you saying this bus was smoking alot and I thought that was the end of that, but looks like she's back.
I also saw #9341 on the B1 route this week as run X22-what gives?
Two things:
A. Sometimes express buses turn up in local service.
B. Sometimes an incorrect run number appears (intentionally or otherwise) in the box.
David
Since there's a surplus of Express Buses, the Nova Coaches will be used on local lines. It's happened in Queens, Manhattan and SI-Now it's Brooklyn's turn. So get used to it.
B1#9341Gary
Q17#9278Gary
Q88#1773Gary
This bus is now repowered. I saw her on the B46 :):) at Kings Hwy and Utica Ave.
B46#8156MikeLimited
Also, 8120 of ENY has been Series 50'd; tonight she was on the B15.
This past wednesday i was heading to NYCT Headquarter to get my paper work assignment & when i past the 126st Depot saw TMC-RTS #8471 stripped????? The both front doors & the back side been taken off & i wonder why they stripped that bus?? I was there monday morning & the bus did have the front doors & now they gone. Any way people have a great weekend & i won't be back until monday afternoon.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation
Bus 8471 might have been the one that was involved in an accident. I don't know all the details but it appears that a bus assigned to the M66 was struck in the front doors by a cab and in the rear by another vehicle.
Great news, everyone; I got a wild hair and decided to do a custom 1:64 scale diecast model of our 1969 GM Fishbowls from our local TA (Valley Metro) here in Roanoke, Virginia. The bus will be posted on eBay this afternoon; I also plan to post a WMATA version there as well. If you'd like to add these to your collection, check them out and bid away!
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Another quick note; I also have a WMATA Flxible Metro and a 1:64 scale NYCTA Fishbowl listed on eBay as well. I plan to do other TA schemes in both body styles soon!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
I have a question for anyone who may be able to answer; I looked up Corgi Fishbowls on eBay and have noticed that all NY World's Fair Greyhound versions there have "Vista Cruiser"-type skylight windows tampoed into the roof sides, just above the standee windows. I have an earlier version of the same bus, yet it does not feature the skylights.
My question is this: did the real NY World's Fair Fishbowls really have these skylight windows, or were they just a Corgi add-on? Many tin toy buses of the 1950s and 60s had such designs, which arouses my curiosity. Also, were these ever an option on GM or Flxible New Looks? Let me know; I'd love to have the facts on this neat feature.
-F.
Some of the Greyhound WF Fishbowls did have the sightseeing windows.
I thought so; thanks!
-Fred
When you have a lot of time, go here:
http://www.omot.org/roster/GMList/index.html
and print out EVERY one of them. It was painful, but worth it.
I put them in a loose-leaf. Nothing can be too good for the Fishbowl.
Yeah...our museum president did that once for our archives; we have a 5303, a 3302A, and a 3714 in our collection. It was really a blast to find info and serials on them; I did the same for our Flxible and Mack coaches once. Always fun.
Visit Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum: www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
Corgi has made TWO versions of Greyhound at the World's Fair GM fishbowls.
Corgi #54503 was made a few years ago and is extremely hard to find. It is the two-door, transit version, with the solid roof. The lettering is done slightly wrong -- if you compare the models with some publicity photos shot by Bob Redden, you'll see the lettering on the real bus went over the exit door. It was kept only on the body panels on the model to make stamping easier (as Corgi made theirs with oversized exit door windows). The transit buses were GM TDH5303's (serials 1581-1640) and were numbered 200-259. Corgi decorated theirs as #236. The first five were delivered in December, 1963 so they could be used to train drivers; the other 55 were delivered just before the fair opened, in March, 1964. The transit buses were used mostly for the parking lot transportation in the huge lots south of the Long Island Expressway. These lots stretched almost to the NYCTA Jamaica Yard.
Corgi #54307 represents the second bunch of Greyhound at the World's Fair GM fishbowl fleet. These were the single-door suburbans, GM model SDH5302 (serials 004-043). They had the "glasstop" roof panels, and were used primarily for intra-fair sightseeing tours. The suburbans wee all delivered in March, 1964 and were numbered 260-299. Corgi decorated theirs as #261.
Transportation within the fair (i.e. shuttles) was handled by tractor-pulled trams, similar to those used in the parking lots of Walt Disney World in Florida and Disneyland in southern California.
These Greyhound Fishbowls are not to be confused with the various fleets for various commuter services in California.
Some of their transits had MANUAL transmission.
The ones in California were TDM-5303's, serials 004-063, Greyhound numbers 9600-9659. They were delivered in June, 1968. They had solid roofs.
Nice! So my 236 is a rare model? Good thing I still have the box and mirrors!
-F.
Don't know how rare. A seller by the handle of "phenomedeals'(IIRC) seems to have always have one or two up for sales and they fetch around $25. I bought mine through him about a month ago. I bought the new version (54307) from someone else about 5 months ago.
Please note : I am in no way connected with the aforementioned seller.
Gotcha. I paid around $43 for mine in 1997; this was when that model was fairly new. When did the newer version come out?
The newer, glasstop version came out in late 2000.
I see; any more Fishbowls in the works at Corgi?
-F.
I saw a listing recently....one will be a Gray Coach single-door (Toronto...) and the other and older version of Chicago Transit Authority. That's it for their plans for 2001.
Sounds good to me. It sure would be nice to see them do other buses (i.e. RTS, Flx Metro/Grumman 870, Flx New Look, etc). But I sure am glad they picked the Fishbowl as a medium; they are overall nice models.
-F.
For the past two days I have seen Brooklyn CNG New Flyers headed up Ninth Avenue in Manhattan. Where are they going? Are they going to operate in Manhattan in the future?
Today while coming back from a Manhattan Shopping Spree, I was on NJT MCI D4000 #7600 on the 166 (Not a bad ride). While on the bus, as we were exiting the Lincoln Tunnel in Jersey, Smacking me dead in the face was a Greyhound G4100 (102-G3) Coach, It was numbered #3200. Be On The Look Out For These Buses! I hear 25 of them are headed our way.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Nope, Trevor - the G4100s are the demos that have been around for about a year. All the new coaches (126 in total) are G4500s. Click here for the MCI press release - includes a pic of Greyhound G4500 #1: MCI delivers first production G4500 to Greyhound. MCI no longer lists the G4100 as a model on its website, and apparently has no plans to make the shorter G-coach now.
The G4500 looks pretty good in Greyhound stripes. I just want to see if they redesigned the rear to ditch those tiny taillights.
I know, the G4100s were out in the West for a while (Pick of them on TransiTALK for about the past year in the Contributions Section), BUT now they are over here on the east! The G4500s will be for the West until they decide they don't like them either!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I know the G41s are here, wasn't denying that. Just wanted to correct what the new ones were going to be.
And, 126 coaches is a commitment, not a test. Greyhound didn't even have that many 102D3s in the fleet. From that press release, the first 25 will be on the Dallas-Los Angeles and Chicago-Seattle runs. But I would imagine there would also be some from the second batch of 101 on the NE Corridor to take back some thunder from Peter Pan's new MCI J4500s. For those who want to see the PP J4500, click here: First Peter Pan J4500, and click on the 3 "download" links at the bottom.
When you compare the G4500 to the D4500, a few big specifications jump out:
- the G is only an inch taller than the D, but loses 6 inches of interior headroom, meaning instead of 4 steps and the aisle ramp, there are 5 full steps.
- a 10% increase in underfloor baggage space (440 cubic feet for the G, 400 for the D)
- a major weight reduction while maintaining the basic stainless steel body framing: D4500-35,100 pounds, G4500-34,000 pounds. Both are rated at 48,000 gross, allowing the G over half a ton more people and cargo.
All these changes of the G favor how Greyhound uses a line coach. No one ever stands, they always have baggage, and the lighter weight improves fuel economy. On the other hand, the D is a much better commuter coach for TAs like NJT, NYCT, and others for allowing transit-size electronic signs, the bi-parting front door, and the headroom for standees.
Makes you wonder what MCI will offer as a commuter coach down the road. I'm sure they don't want to make the D forever, and a "Jersey cap" would look as bizarre on a G as it did on the Eagle 20s.
The D SERIES is my child. Last time I talked with MCI (About two weeks ago), They are gonna kill the D Series totally as a Charter coach and ONLY offer it in a Transit set up! Thus the reasoning for the G & J series premiers!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
i never even herd of the MCI G4100.
i never even herd of the MCI G4100.
The MCI G-series was first conceived about 5 years ago. Greyhound and MCI were looking to create a state of the art line haul coach that would feature the best of the old features, along with some new innovation and design. There were originally going to be 2 models:
the 102G3 (renamed G4100) 41 feet x 102 inches
the 102GL3 (G4500) - 45 x 102
The shorter coach was releaqsed last year as a demo to various line haul operators for evaluation. Greyhound found faults weith the coach, and placed yet another order for D-series coaches in the meantime. MCI made th necessary adjustments, and the G4500 shown at the bus show in February is the result of all the evaluations received. Unfortunately, no one was wild about the 41-footer - Prevost doesn't sell that many H3-41s for that matter - and it appears that MCI will stick solely wioth the longer coach.
The resemblance to the E-series (Renaissance) is intentional. The E was released first, and the "look" was desired to create a family image. If MCI had its way, there would only be the E and G right now, but market conditions in the coach industry have resulted in the keeping of the D, the introduction of the F (a 35-foot coach), and the new J-series (which is basically the E-body on a D-chassis).
Gee, looks like a "Rennaisance" to me.
I never said anything about the G41s being new, I just said that they are here and the others from the West coast are following. I'm well aware of the G41s and G45s orders for Greyhound.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
What's the story with this bus? Haven't heard of it since the accident. Are repairs underway? Is a replacement coming? What's up?
I Remember back in '84 a massive renumbering of most of the bronx bus routes took place. (BX4 became BX34, 15 became 28 etc.) I always wondered why that all was done.
This was probably discussed before, but I feel the need to bring it up again.
I was out today doing some bus/light rail riding in Hudson County and thought I might comment on this situation:
There are schedules for the Trans-Hudson/Coach USA #10 and 99 routes, but you have to do a good deal of searching to find one.
But if you want a schedule for, say, a Lafayette & Greenville route, or the Bergen Avenue bus, GOOD LUCK!!!
And nothing is available about them online either.
It's my observation in general, that many of the Hudson County buses are poorly run.
In addition to the lack of printed schedules, they appear to be disorganized, inefficient, lack of professionalism, many routes have no numbers, and many of the drivers don't speak English well(I noticed this more with Academy's local service).
Is anything being done, particularly by Hudson County TMA or other transportation organization, to remedy this and upgrade these services?
BTW - Somebody posted that NJ Transit will soon launch a brand new and much improved website. Looking forward to it! Will the new site include a trip planner, like the one on the Los Angeles MTA website?
Thanks.
Hudson TMA has printed schedules of all bus routes. I believe it is now a legal requirement of some sort. Give them a call on Tuesday...
201.432.2200.
Hi.
I would like to know if the Neoplan Articulateds run on Route 65 and Route C on Weekends?
And BTW. I am comming to the SEPTA Roadeo on 6/23/2001.
65 Neoplan AN460#7101
C Neoplan AN460#7201
Artics operate on the 65 daily, since it's split between Allegheny - an all artic depot - and Callowhill. So you will see a nice mix of Neoplan EI/EZ (33xx-34xx), NABI, and artics on the 65.
Sorry for the second post, but I forgot to talk about the C. I think artics do run on the C, but generally between City Hall and Ogontz Loop (Cheltenham & Ogontz Avs). Like the 65, the C is split between Midvale (which has artics) and Southern. When the New Flyers arrive, you can expect a bigger variety of buses than on the 65 - low floors, Neo 40 ft, NABI, artics.
However, there aren't that many artics placed on the C since they are generally held for other lines - the 18, 22, and 55. Your best bet to see an artic from Midvale is at Olney Terminal, where the 4 lines - and the 6 from Allegheny - meet.
OK. BUT is Midvale or Southern is going to get the first set of Low Floors? And besides the one that is going to be at the Roadeo.I hope to see one running on Route C on the day of the SEPTA Roadeo. And is it possable on the day of the Roadeo that any Articulateds will be running on C?
C New Flyer D40LF#5401
C Neoplan AN460 #7201
There is no guarantee that a New Flyer will arrive in Philadelphia in time for the Roadeo. The delivery isn't scheduled to start until at least July, but we may get lucky.
If you were to see an artic operating on the C on the day of the Roadeo, it would probably wouldn't be until late evening and only between City Hall and North Philly. But some Orange Owl runs (the Broad Street Line's late nite bus substitution route) have been seen covered by artics, and the route runs all the way down to Pattison, so you could see an artic down there late at nite.
SEPTA made the D40LF Deivery date now for when the ElDorados are done. And #5401 should be there at the Roadeo. SAME thing with #7101 did back in 1999.
no southern and callowhill.
speaking of septa new flyer i found a web site with picture of the septa new flyer here
Interesting pic,especially where the rear destination sign is located .
when i seen the new flyer in person in center city.i thought
that the new flyer has change design for the destination sign.
Do you still have the photo of SEPTA D40LF still?
no.
What happin to it?
if you realy want them i can send you it via email.these picture wer taking by septa.
OK. Send them to me at MTAboy99@aol.com. OK.
ok
but here's is a link that i found with a picture on it.
here
The Photo looks nice. BUT Why the Rear Sign is on the Top? And SEPTA buses don't have Rear Signs.
A few Septa Neoplan DK Suburbans (#'s 3122-3131) were fitted with small rear signs some years ago. But Septa maintained them poorly and they all broke in a very short amount of time. I'm pretty sure that the signs are still on those buses, but they don't work well if at all. Septa may have New Flyer remove the rear signs from the buses they are about to deliver.
septa maintain all there buses poorly in the 1980's and
most of the 90's.i think it a waste of money.
Yeah. Have you seen the windows of a lot of the Neoplans? They serioiusly need to be replaced. Also, there are a lot of destination signs that need work as well. But anyway, SEPTA does try a lot of things. About the destination signs, it's another try at having one. It's foolish not to have them in my opinion.
Yeah. Have you seen the windows of a lot of the Neoplans? They serioiusly need to be replaced. Also, there are a lot of destination signs that need work as well. But anyway, SEPTA does try a lot of things. About the destination signs, it's another try at having one. It's foolish not to have them in my opinion. Also, why isn't the stripe at the top like it's suppose to be?
i just receive some news that the new flyer is set to delvery
in september 2001.
I suppose they made it that way so they wouldn't have the rear number sign (not destination) in the middle of the ads they would post on the rear of the bus.
Also, the rear tailights aren't horizontal like the other SEPTA buses. Oh, wait, aren't the tailights of the El Dorados vertical as well?
The Eldorados' tail lights are vertical.
I don't even know if 5401 will be at the Roadeo. It's possible, but I don't know for sure. The rest of the New Flyer order is set to arrive sometime in July, so I don't think you'll see any on the C. As I had said before, the first batch of low floors will be assigned to Callowhill, Red Arrow, and Southern. I don't know where the second batch will go, but it's possible that Comly and Midvale will get them. Frontier probably won't get too many low floors - if any at all - since most of those routes have some fairly good size grades to them.
new flyer#5401 is currently in canada at a new flyer plant.
the order of new flyer will be at southern.
Here's something I don't understand: Why buy buses that can't make it up hills or turn very well, such as New Flyer #5401. It would seem logical in a place like Kansas, but why do it in Philadelphia and its surrounding suburbs, which contain a lot of neighborhoods with hills?
the eldorado can make it up the hills.but for the nabi it stop pick up speed at 29mph.i don't like the allision world transmission
b-400r because the transmission slip alot on septa buses.
btw:i just see a nabi on the G.
do any have the tec. spec. for the nabi.
yesterday on saturday i rode on the a neoplan artic.#7167 65.i rode on it.I seen one on sunday to.
BTW: i saw and rode a eldorado on the 105.
For those of you that need to know how to get to the SEPTA Roadeo by SEPTA. Here's how to get there.
Take BSL(Broad St Line)to Pattison Ave. Or.
Take Route C to Pattison Ave.
For those of you that want to stay in a Hotel. The closest hotel to there is a Holiday Inn on 10th & Packer Ave. For rates call that Hotel at 1-800-424-0291 for Rates and book a room there.
Hope to see you at the SEPTA Roadeo.
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In yesterday's Washington Post, an article about how Metro needs 300 more buses and one new garage to keep up with ridership projections for the next 6 years ran. An issue is how to get the money and where to put the garage since no one wants it in their back yard.
Also, WTOP Radio reports the N7 will keep operating a little longer but trips will be cut and at least 30 people need to be riding constantly in order for the route to keep running. Right now, about 20 people are on each bus.
Ok, here's the simple solution; keep the Flxible Metros running as long as possible! There are at least 300 in service, so buy new ones and keep older coaches running along as funds allow.
That's the same formula that nearby Blacksburg Transit is going by; they will receive a new fleet of New Flyers in October, yet keep the 1986 and 87 Flx Metros purring right along. Unfortunately, the four remaining 1989 RTSes will be retired, but that's good news for anyone wanting to buy one; RTS fans, take heed.
While the news is much to my chagrin as I was hoping to buy a Metro soon, the good news is that a TA right dwon the road is keeping these great coaches in regular service. :) Also, Valley Metro here in Roanoke is going by the same formula; while they will receive 12 new buses in the fall, they plan to keep two of their 1988 Gilligs for backup as opposed to retiring them with the rest. Simply put, TAs across America are running out of buses, so they are keeping their older ones around to accomodate the empty space.
-F.
I'm sure WMATA will do everything they can to keep the Metro's up and running. I'm not sure how they determined which ones to be refurbished and which ones to just run their course. I saw 8882 sitting at Ballston today and it looks pathetic, dents, paint scratches, no side advertisements. I would vote that one the first Metro to be retired, or at least one of the first ones. I also saw one the other day that had its front panel replaced, but they never put the "Metrobus" lettering back on. I can't remember the number, it was 8879 or something like that.
I have seen 9225, ex Montgomery Division bus running on the 23C lately here in VA as well as old Landover division 9284 on the 7E heading from the Pentagon to Southern Towers.
Saw today Bus 3920 in service on the S79. She looked OK.
I believe they have 3944 running from storage also-I remember her when she was at QV. 3920 was at Jamaica. 3902 and 3950 at 1 time were in Crosstown Storage but now they're running on QV Lines. 3915 and 4010 made a short comeback from storage but now their fate caught up to them as they were sent to the scrapper.
Q88#3950Gary
Q17#3920Gary
Q46#3944Gary
drove bus 3920 on friday on s61. a typical rts containing a bronx bus map. these buses were painted after being returned from carleton storage.
3920 originally came out of Stengel. Many of the original 39xx buses went from Stengel to QV (3903,3961-3984 come to mind). some others went to QV and to Jamaica (3902 joined 3903 in QV - which by this time got fixed once and then scrapped), 3928 went to Manhattan and 3930 went to Gun Hill for a brief period. The last 39xx I remember in Flushing was 3940 - which was there with 3640 in the late 1990's.
flx7595
Stengel i think had 3900-3984 originally.
Yep they did before they went over to QV and other depots.
Q46#3950Gary
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This afternoon, I noticed at Herald Square an open-top double-deck tour bus which resembled those operated by the late NY Apple Tours. Its owner was identified only as "Sightseeing USA - a Coach USA company."
Has anybody here heard of Sightseeing USA? Is NY Apple trying to get back into the tourist market under a new name?
No but gray line is part of coach usa
Sightseeing USA, is just another spin-off of Coach USA. They also have Shuttle USA & Taxicabs USA. ALL UNDER THE SAME CRAP OPERATION UMBRELLA!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Are they also on their deathbed ?
You know I wondered about that, I'll have to ask my union guy about that but I would think so since they are under the Coach USA umbrella!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I didn't realize Coach USA was so bad off; what is going on with them?
Also, I have seen photos of a few NJT Flxible Metro suburbans with Coach USA markings; are they operated by one, the other, or both? And what will happen with these buses should Coach USA go under? Hopefully they will be kept alive and put to good use.
-F.
Stagecoach Holdings Ltd (Coach USA's owner in Scotland) is taking a "sink or swim" attitude with CU by apparently withholding financial assistance until CU comes up with a reorganized business plan to survive.
The NJT Flxibles you see in CU stripes are operated by variou CU divisions. Most of them were at Red & Tan Tours on the Trans-Hudson division. TH themselves is not doing well - they have abandoned all service, except for a hadful of #144 rush hour runs. NJT Flxible Metro-D transits on ONE Bus and South Orange Ave routes in Newark are also slowly gaining the "big C" paint job.
Most of the 32xx Flxibles are at Coach USA/Trans Hudson (former Drogin lines). Most of the Metro D Transits are at ONE Bus, and there may be a few from South Orange Av IBOA in the CUSA scheme as well.
So what will become of these buses? Being Metro "D"s, they're not that old and should see continued service for some time. Will they be returned to regular NJT service?
-F.
On the outside chance that Coach USA goes under, or at least sells off the Newark local routes, I would expect one company to acquire ansd consolidate the various operations - likely Academy. If NJT is forced to retake the routes, the Metro Ds woukd be repainted to NJT colors, and likely assigned to the Orange, Ironbound, and Hilton garages to serve the various routes involved (12, 24, 31, 44). Interestingly, NJT never operated the 31 - Transport of New Jersey abandoned its 31 service prior to the sale to the state.
It depends on what Chapter of the US Bankruptcy Code the petition will be filed under. If it is Chapter 11, the debtor tries to work out a repayment plan with creditors. They may surrender some assets in full payment, give the creditors stock in the company, get the court to cancel the debt and void leases or some combination of thereof. If that happens then the equipment may stay where it is.
If it is Chapter 7, ie complete liquidation, a trustee is appointed by the court to oversee operations. The trustee has the obligation to investigate the situation, sell off all assets for the best price and return the proceeds to the creditors. He/She can sell off everything item by item or bundle it and sell off each company individually, combine some, etc. If it is a Chapter 7, there's no telling at this time where the equipment will end up.
Assuming that CUSA is a holding company for all the individual companies, then not all companies are required to file bankruptcy. If CUSA files, the trustee would be selling the shares of stock of the subsidiaries and the companies would remain intact. If CUSA and each subsidiary file then....oh boy, the lawyers will have a field day.
Sounds like a legal mess. Let's hope the buses are returned to regular NJT service, whatever happens.
-F.
While surfing Doremous Avenue on my way home from a friends BBQ today, I noticed two NYCT Flxible New Looks inside Nimcos main lot. One was a 7754 (?) and the other looked like a 1977 black bumpered New Look. I would have thought all the '77s were long gone, with a few training bus 7700s left. Anyway, here is what could be seen by number.
1815 1846 3299 3404 3415 3417 3420 3429 3455 3688 3725 3729 3741 3801 3808 3814 3815 4137 4381. There was one ex JBL Grumman, two Gilligs and one MAN articulated in the front, not of Liberty. My sole question is of the 1846. Living in Kingsbridge territory, I seem to recall 1850s on the former X61, from Peck Slip to the Yonkers Line. Was that one of the regulars?
bus 1846 spent most if not all its in service days at ulmer park. buses 1812-1853 were assigned to ulmer park in 1982 where most of them stayed until retirement. buses 1854-1858 were the only buses assigned to mabstoa where they last saw service at 100 st before being sent to nyct old age home a/k/a yukon depot and then nimco.
PA1854-PA1858 were originally assigned to Kingsbridge for the now-defunct X61 route.
Mark
I don't know why that route was suspended. It was the Bronx's first MTA express bus route and their only one.
Well...
Along the Bronx portion of the route the X61 duplicated Liberty Lines's BXM3.
Wayne
1849-1858 were over at Yukon as early as 1990, possibly 1991. I have posted an assignment listing of NYC Transit from sometime between 1990 and 1993 (haven't been able to confirm the actual date, but this was after the first batch of 8xxx RTS buses arrived in 1990).
I enjoyed that. Some of these buses (New Look) brings back many memories.
Wait a minute....
All the Flxible New looks were gone by July 1990?????
Something is amiss
There are a few mistakes in the list. It was listed that FP had 4670-4682 while it was repeated for GH; GH never had them. Also what about all the 4100's FP had that weren't listed as well as various fishbowls and Flx new looks as Mike M. has stated.
BTW: Flixble new look 9xxx to 93xx didn't retired until Aug 1995.
Peace
David Justiniano
NYCT/MaBSTOA Traffic Checker Operation/ Operation Planning
1849-1852 arrived in the 90s and all flxible new looks were retired by 1992 barely surviving their expected 15 year life span. many sent from other depots made their last trip at nyct od age home a/k/a yukon depot.
At that time. QV got a few of those Flxible New Looks from MCH and AMS that ran with QV until 1993.
You know, I completely forgot that RTS 3209-3248 ran out of Stengel. I remember 4321-4345 (Later to QV) but forgot about these. They came in when 3960-3984 went to QV. I also forgot about 1430's short run at Stengel.
This was around late 92 or so. I think 1519 came back for one more run at Stengel, and 2572, 2583, 2585 came over to join 2406 (called PA2406 I believe) around that time. I also think some 22xx came from one of the other depots.
1705-1733 were just about on their way out, to be replaced by 173-232 of the Orions (with that 5 digit numbering that some buses had and some didn't. 93079 had 5 digits, while 191 had "PA" in front of it (even though it wasn't really - I think it was someone trying to be cute with lettering - it wasn't standard TA lettering.
I've seen some Orions now that say (no joke) New York City Sub (someone reverses the 'bus' letters. I think 505 or 507 have this.
Thanks again for the trip down memory lane.
flx7595
I remember when buses 1509-about 1539 and 1559-1570, 2360-2368, 2406-2410, 2482-2486, 2572 were with Casey Stengel for about two years before they went to the scrap yards. Some of these buse were with QV and Jamaica first. Trust me, I use to live in Jamaica, Queens (a block north of Hillside Av - Q1, Q2, Q3, Q17, Q36, Q43, Q75, Q76 and the Q77).
I see to recognise those numbers as all being at Maspeth Storage previously.
"There was one ex JBL Grumman, two Gilligs and one MAN articulated in the front"
I do understand the JBL Flxible 870 part. BUT who used to own those 2 Gilligs and 1 MAN Articulated.? And did any look fine to you?
I know the MAN Articulated is a Rutgers Bus. The last time I was there (about 3 weeks ago) I saw two Orion Is and no Gilligs. I did take pics for those that are interested and will post them when i find some time.
Peace,
Kevin
www.transitworld.org
I would like to see it BTW. You could send the photos to me at MTAboy99@aol.com OK.
I was by there on Saturday; I can't believe I didn't see the '77 Flxibles! In addition to the JBL Grumman, there was an 870 each from Private Transportation and Rutgers. The Orion Is (Citycruisers?) were from CDTA (Albany) and looked burned. The body of the Rutgers MAN looked pretty good. A pair of Neoplan AN-440s from Philadelphia Airport also sat in the yard. I took some photos, but I'm sure the fact that it was dark and rainy will take its toll on their quality.
The Neoplans from Philadelphia Airport are actually ex-Dallas buses. I don't know what their numbers were, but I have a feeling I never will... =( But, since they're not owned nor operated by SEPTA, I really don't care...
41Last night during A&E's L&O marathon, an epsiode was shown where the dectectives had to track down a killer who had ridden the M-5 and then the 110th St Crosstown. It is an episode with Carey Lowell as the assistant DA and brings up the moral issue of the death penalty.
Briscoe and Curtis interview the driver as he is getting off the bus. You can clearly see the words "Port of New York and New Jersey" and PA 4199 next to the door. No route shown, but when the camera pulls back a drop you can see that the vehicle is clearly parked (no passengers) in the middle of a block and is in front of a fire hydrant.
I believe the route sign said "Not In Service" so it's irrelevant what route he was on. IIRC, wasn't "PA4199" some other TA/OA bus originally?
it was pa1648 and saw most of its service at flatbush before being sold to picture cars. it was in service at castleton right before its retirement.
I need some help to identify some Coach USA(Florida) and Grayline(Canada)buses. Coach USA. Fleet No45078 is a SETRA, who run's it.
Coach USA. Fleet No o6791 is either a MCI or Prevost. It is a side on view I have got and would like to know what it is and again who run's it. Both were taken in Florida.
Grayline Canada Fleet No 236 is an older style MCI coach on Airport duties can anybody give me more info about this bus.
Thank you
Any word on when APM plans to introduce this model? I recall someone saying the summer, but dont remember. Id be interested in buying them. Please give me some information if anyone has it.
From what I heard, later this year; perhaps in the fall. I have 1:64 scale diecast versions at the moment, one of which is on eBay in Valley Metro (Roanoke, VA) colors. I am also working on a 30-footer of that one as well.
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
It was stated LATER THIS year.
BE PATIENT.
Summer has not even started yet. And it lasts until the middle of September.
BE PATIENT.
Today I spotted what appeared to be an Eagle M15 on the Capital Beltway. Anyone familiar with this rare Eagle. It was 37 fett long with two axles. I heard that very few of them came to the US.
Wayne
According to Larry Plachno's book, the Eagle 15 was 96 inches wide in the front but flared out to 102 inches at the door and rest of the bus. The roof cap was changed to have a window in it. All changes were so passengers could see more. The bus came in 35, 40 and 45 foot lengths and were known as Eagle 35/15, 40/15 and 45/15. Production started in 1988 and was still continuting in 1994 when the book was written. No figure on how many units of any model are available in this book.
Thanks for your response Hart Bus, but this is not the same bus. The model 15 was quite popular. I fact I believe it was Eagle's answer to MCI's 102A3. I know of the M15 because there is a photo of it in Bus World's Eagle Special issue from the early 1980's. This bus looked very much like the newer 05 Eagles except it was 37 feet long, no tag axle and no destination sign. Since the bus was an odd length I was thinking Eagle offered it in Europe only. I'll look for the B/W issue tonght and scan the photo.
Wayne
Last weekend I went to Chicago to visit a friend for the first time. Now, I knew that Chicago had Flxibles with the slide glide doors, but I didn't know that they had the round tail lights, and these are not LEDs. In fact, every bus in the fleet had these round lights, including the RTSs, with the exception of the New Flyers, which also had an amber rear light. In addition to that, all the Flxibles had excel windows, even the ones older than the time Flxible started to use excels all the time. Also, I know this may not be wierd for some people, but the RTS engines sounded like the 8000 series Neoplans of SEPTA, and the Flxibles had DD 50 engines (I'm used to the Cummins engines of the WMATA fleet). Plus, the RTSs had the very rare decent RTS looking front, and a few of them still had the rear window, although I haven't had the pleasure of riding one.
That's strange about the non-LED round lights. Perhaps they and the Excels were retrofits. The DD Series 50 became a standard for the Flxible Metro after 1994, and DC was one of the few cities that ordered them with the Cummins. I agree that the RTS-08 at CTA looks a WHOLE lot better than the ugly new WFDs.
I'd love to see a pic of the RTS with a rear window; bet that looks neat! BTW, I also have a pair of 1:64 scale diecast RTS models (one is NYCTA, the other LA Metro); ironically, they also feature rear windows.
-F.
The Excel windows in the CTA's Flxible Metros are retrofits in response to an epidemic problem with "scratchitti" --- a term that I learned on BusTalk, BTW. (I've never heard it used in Chicago. Here we just call it "etching"; but I like "scratchitti" better.)
However, the round taillights were original equipment. The CTA has a history of insisting on heavily customized buses. Since the late 1950s, large round taillights have been the norm for every bus order except two:
-A large series of MAN Americanas delivered in 1985, which seem to have been ordered "off the shelf", and
-An order of 300+ uncustomized Nova LFSs currently being delivered.
The TMC RTS-08s, which arrived in 1990-91 without air, are now being retrofitted with AC. Within the next few months, their rear windows will be a memory. I've taken pics of these buses, before and after, and will try to make arrangements to post them within the next few weeks.
-Dan
i was in chicago back last year-and rode the PACE buses which operate outside the center of Chicago. I rode #209,#606,#616 and #757 routes. ALL have Orion I on them and are much neater than CTA buses. PACE does operate MCI buses and Gilligs as well, but NO Orion V buses. I love PACE Buses better.
Are you referring to the Classics? If so, I believe the PACE Classics were actually built by NovaBus.
Well, I got to ride one of the Flxible shuttles in Harpers Ferry. They were the interesting kind with the sealed windows. This reminded me of how nice Flxibles were, at least, inside, unlike the RTSs. The interior design makes ou feel nice and comfortable. It's realy hard to describe, but a black slanted wall doesn't make me feel at home.
I agree; at Blacksburg Transit, our RTSes had mostly black walls and looked cold, plasticky, and uninviting on the inside. In fact, the stop bells were even in black! The Flxibles, however, featured light earth tones, a nice greenhouse, and woodgrain paneling, which always gave me a warm, at-home feel. Same with the driver's compartment. Something about that RTS dash just felt too much like a van or something.
-F.
So much for editing in mid-send. Let me know your thoughts on the Flxible and RTS interiors!
-F.
I agree; at Blacksburg Transit, our RTSes had mostly black walls and looked cold, plasticky, and uninviting on the inside. In fact, the stop bells were even in black! The Flxibles, however, featured light earth tones, a nice greenhouse, and woodgrain paneling, which always gave me a warm, at-home feel. Same with the driver's compartment. Something about that RTS dash just felt too much like a Chevy van, and not a bus.
-F.
Until further notice please enter TransiTALK using
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk/
www.transitalk.com is O/S for now until further notice!
Thank You
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Did NameZero yank your domain for using a "redirect" script to get rid of the ad frame?
C
It probably expired, they no longer allow free renewal of free domains.
Why don't you just spend the $20 and register it.
Actually I'm gonna spend the $100 and have it registered for 5-years, I'm not a cheap person!!!!!
However I'm also moving TransiTALK off of the Geocities server as we speak due to poor customer service performance by Geocities.
So for about two weeks..TT will be off line! Also this is great for me, so I can make sure everything is in tact on the site!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Ok Trip Tuesday 2: Had to go to SJU to drop something off. Started out on 9595 on the 7 which was rough riding. Then got 5960 on the F-fast moving car to 169 St. Took 4141 on the Q30 slow up the hill along Homelawn St and had led signs in the front. Dropped off a paper at SJU. Went to get a camera which later on lost. How IDK. Got on 8390 on the Q46- Interior number says 8 9. Saw a QM1 coming from a distance so I got off at 164 St. To a shock it was 468. Yes 468. Rode very fast despite it had a burning smell inside of her. Got off at 5 Ave to get the MCI to Manhattan. Decided to board the X1 #2723. Thinking that I had a transfer from QM1-X1 my card did not work. I had to bounce off at 23 St station to get change. Got change and the next bus was 2047 X10. I never rode a CAS MCI before so I decided to ride it. The idle was like a massge when I was in the seat. Also while paying the aisles were so small that I fell down right in the 1st row. I'll be honest-the report that was on Fox 5 a few weeks back was absolutely right-these buses are far too small to be operating on Express Lines to SI and Brooklyn. However the ride was great-nice and smooth. Something has to be done about the aisles and the doorway though-too tight. Hit a bit of traffic on Gowanus but eventually opened up. Got off at Victory Blvd and Richmond Rd to catch the S44 towards Yukon. 15 Minutes past and 6169 came in looking like crap and dirty. I let it pass me by and got on 6286. This was when I realized that I lost my disposable. Got off right in front of Yukon Depot. I had backup disposable though so I used that. Drivers were asking me why i'm taking pics of buses and I was like because I like them. Took pics of 2270 4482 3920 3944 and a few others. Saw 4011 4046 4378 4894 4897 8293 8315 and 8301. Was getting cloudy so I wanted to head to St George's Terminal so I boarded the S61. Got 6335. A long ride and it poured. A few flashes of lightning occured also. An hour later when I got to St George's it was sunny. Got a fdew pics there and boarded the ferry. South Ferry I boarded the N at Whitehall- car #2852. Took to Queens Plaza where I got # 7 car 9753. Took to Woodside where I dropped off my pics. Saw 3068 Q53 was a mess-right rear lights were dangling. 3067 and 3069 were the other 2 there. Took 6126 Q32 which rode like crap. Big difference between 6335 and 6126. 6126 sounded like a pig. Also driver couldn't drive that bus-almost crashed into pillar on Roosevelt Ave and 56 St. What a day.
S61#6335Gary
X10#2047Gary
QM1#468Gary
I've noticed that buses are being featured in artwork around Philly. There is a mural on the side of 919 Walnut Street and it features a SEPTA Slopeback RTS. Also, I have seen yellow posters which says "OBEY" and "SUBVERT" and has a picture of two Fishbowls. Are there any mass transit artwork (and I don't mean grafitti) from your neck of the woods? Kind of interesting.
We had a really neat picture of Roanoke drawn up in 1982 by local artist Eric Fitzpatrick; it was a very comical, cartoony take on our city, sort of a parody of the Roanoke Valley if you will. In the print, several Valley Metro Flxible New Looks are seen, one of which is driving over grass in a park.
Needless to say, this is my favorite work by Eric Fitzpatrick; in fact, his brother Bev is now president of the museum that is preserving one of the Flxes illustrated in the above artwork. I'd love to be able to show you the print; it is really neat.
-F.
I got a Question.
Could I use the Yellow Ticket that I get from the B/O at Trenton to Transfer from Route 409 to Route 406 without paying again on Route 406? And how much is the fare on Route 406? And what buses do they use on that Route? Is it 30 Foot Novas?
And one more Question. Do D4000's run ALOT on Route 409?
A few things about transferring between the 409 and 406:
* - You would need to pay a transfer fee in order to get from the 409 to the 406 - or any South Jersey bus line.
* - The transfer slip is - for all intents and purposes - printed in the same fashion as the receipt. However, a receipt alone is not sufficient to transfer between buses.
* - Transfers must be made in Camden. NJ Transit does not allow transfers to be made in Philadelphia (or New York City), nor do they allow transfers between buses when the trip originates or ends in Philadelphia (or New York City).
* - I don't know the fares offhand for the 409.
"* - You would need to pay a transfer fee in order to get from the 409 to the 406 - or any South Jersey bus line."
When I have to pay the Transfer Fee? When I get on the 409 at Trenton? Or on the 406? Can I also get it when I get off the Bus from the 409? And how long do the Transfer lasts?
"* - I don't know the fares offhand for the 409."
I said 406.NOT 409.
Pay the transfer fee when you get on the 409. As for fares on the 406, I don't know those either...
how much does it cost to ride on nj transit.
The 1 zone intrastate fare is $1.00. But, for multiple-zone rides, the fares are different in North and South Jersey. SJ fares are lower than NJ
2-zone ride in North Jersey - $1.55
" " " South Jersey - $1.40
The NJ intrastate fares are as follows:
1 zone - $1.00
2 zone - $1.55
3 zone - $1.90
4 zone - $2.30
et al
Transfer fee in North Jersey is $.45 in addition to the fare to transfer point.
EX - If you are traveling 2 zones and then trasnfering, you pay $2.00
If your ride on the connecting bus is one zone, you pay nothing. If it's more than one, you pay for the number of zones minus $1.00.
EX - If you are traveling 2 zones on the connecting bus, give the transfer to the driver and deposit $.55. For 3 zones, deposit $.90.
The interstate fares on NYC routes are as follows:
1 zone (GWB Terminal to Bridge Plaza, Fort Lee only) - $1.25
#126 Line PABT to Hoboken - $1.50
2 zone - $1.90
3 zone - $2.55
4 zone - $3.25
5 zone - $3.95
6 zone - $4.60
et al
And there's a lot more to it than that.
Then there's the intra-commuter fares on the Route 9 corridor to Newark and Hudson County . . . don't get me started on those!
126 Jersey City-PABT $2
SUBTALK LIVE THIS SATURDAY
June 2, 2001
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That was some thunderstorm we had this afternoon. At around 3:30pm I was on Roosevelt avenue in Flushing and the sky to the west got dark, there were flashes of lightning. My N20 at 3:45pm came just in time, as the storm came upon us. Then around 3:50pm all hell broke loose. As we turned onto Sanford I could see a wall of white approaching, then it poured. The wind blew strong and the rain came down furiously.
The lightning was bad, and the rain poured for nearly 20 minutes.
The ride to Nassau was slow, there was alot of flooding on Northern Blvd in Douglaston and Little Neck. It felt as if the bus was going through a lake. Right near the city line Northern was really flooded, some guy was pushing water witha broom out of his store.
So did any of you buses get caught in the storm. Did anyones engines flood out and stall? From what I saw, I wouldn't be suprised if there were mechanical problems from the flooding, it was NASTY.
we have the same thing in philly.
METROCARD & CARDHOLDERS COLLECTORS CATALOG
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Send $10.00 ea. plus $2. P & H in check or Money Order
made out to: Mike Makman, To: Prof. Putter, Po Box 755
Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
METROCARD MANIA BOOK - Fun With Used MetroCards!
This beautiful paperback book is published by Price Stern & Sloan. It includes over 30 different projects using NYC MetroCards. Games, magic tricks, toys. Great for kids from 8 to adult. To order send $5 each + $3.00 (s&h) (outside USA $6.00 s&h) in US money, check or money order made out to: Michael Makman. The book will be autographed by the author at the purchasers request. Send order to: Professor Putter PO Box 755, Planet Station New York , NY 10024-0539
A drive by investigation Tuesday evening revealed that there are no buses stored at that facility. I have no idea as to the timetable of the plans of NYCT to build a depot on the site, but since the storage buses have been moved (many to Nimco scrap), this would hint that construction will commence sooner rather than later.
I got off R36 9753 at 61 St this evening to see 3067 3068 and 3069 on the Q53. Will someone please tell me what's the isssue with this company is? Not only was 3067-3069 and a few other Orions left white since their delivery in early 1999 but 3068's right rear-the lights are DANGLING off. A big hole and duct tape are there also. If they're repainting RTS and MCI, then why can't they repaint and redo the Orions? I think Triboro should've got the worst ranking instead of GBL. I think GBL is slowly improving-Triboro is going the other way.
QM15#722Gary
Q53#3067Gary
Add to that no A/C last time I rode the Q53 on a hot 90 degree day.
Many BusTalkers have lamented on this board in regard to Triboro Coach equipment assignments: new soft seat buses being used on local routes and the vandalism risk. A very annoying obervation from Tuesday morning while I was stopped for a traffic light on the LIE service road: while looking at the traffic on the LIE, I saw Triboro hard seater 2813 in service! Hard seaters in premium fare express service and soft seaters in local service! Yikes! And as I was sharing this fact with a friend a few hours ago, he told me that 1985 RTS 689 was in service on the QM24 during the PM rush Tuesday! Premium fare for this junk! What kind of garbage is this? There had to be a soft seater availiable because there is much less scheduled PM express service on the QM24 in the evening than in the morning. Even if this operator had a school run before he did this express trip, there should be enough time budgeted for him to swap at the depot for a soft seater, if not someone in the depot should have met him at the end of the school run with a swap. Also, look for Jamaica Bus 531. I could have sworn I saw this bus last week stenciled with the Triboro Coach logo.
Yep Jamaica Bus 531 has a Triboro Coach logo in the front and written in black in script on the sides. It is used as a Training Bus. Why it's still in Jamaica Colors beats me. A month or so back I saw 678 on the QM10?! I have to look that 1 up in a log that I wrote-I'll get back to you on that. And Orions run locally. 3012 Q29, 3007 Q47 for example. I've been trying to figure this company out for ages now and I still can't. As a friend of mine calls Triboro Coach-Triboro Roach-that's how you react when you see their buses-Yikes!
Q53#3007Gary
Triboro coach amazes me to this day. I used to ride the Q53 on sundays and they had the RTS 04 series on it. Apparently, from what i heard, Triboro was supposed to recieve 1/2 of the Orion local order that Queens Surface did, and did not. My question is, why doesnt Queens Surface switch their RTS buses and send them to Triboro, and Triboro sends their orion buses to QS. That way, one depot gets one model. It would look like this:
Queens Suface: Orion V CNG and MCI
Triboro:RTS buses 04 and 06 and MCI
Triboro doesn't have any more room for Orion CNGs, but wants to keep the ones they have (we would want any more old RTS either). It's a complicated issue. When the last of the recent order of CNGs came in we declared surplus a number of RTS. Some were picked up by the other "privates" the rest were sold.
Disclaimer: Speaking for myself only here.
Mr t__:^)
If they want to keep the ones they have,then they should do a better job in keeping the buses in shape. The buses at Green(ORION V) while some of the signs do not work, at least they look in great shape. Is Triboro trying to destroy their buses, and why hasnt Jamaica Bus recieved any new buses? Also, what is to be the next DOT Bus order-hope they dont sende any to Triboro though.
I got a photo of a hard seater on I beleive it was the QM12. It'll be in Transit Pictures 22, coming out soon.
What is your main link to your Transit Picture Site becuase the other link you gave us to Transfer Point gave me a 404 error?
B61#823Gary
This Morning.
I saw a photo of a WMATA Flxible Metro D Suburban #9831 on Route 16F. I thaught that there was no suburbans in 4 Mile Run. I notice that the Sign next to the Run# sign says "EXPRESS". I wounder if those buses mainly run on Route 16F ALOT?
16F Flxible Metro D#9831
They randomly run on different routes. 9830 and 9831 have been moved to Four Mile Run. I've seen 9830 on the 1C, 24M on a Saturday and 23A on a different day. There is no way to know where it will show up.
Have you got on it? And where is the most buses out of 4 Mile Run makes it's last stop at?
I've been on 9830 before. I was on it a couple of weeks ago on the 1C and I've been on it when it used to come out of the Montgomery Division.
A lot of the Four Mile Run routes go to the Pentagon during the week. On weekends, all Northern Virginia routes come from Four Mile Run, so you can get them from Pentagon, Rosslyn, Ballston, Crystal City, etc, since the Arlington and Royal Divisions are weekday only garages.
OK. But on what route you got on #9830 when it was out of Montgomery?
It was either the Q2 or the K6, its been so long that I can't remember. I know for sure I've been on the Q2 on 9832, but it was one of the other ones for 9830.
Here's a link to the photo of the Flxible Metro D Suburban #9831 on Route 16F.
Click Here for the photo.
TT is closed. How can we get to it???
No photo there, dude. Is that the right link?
-F.
Yes. Just that Geocites is haveing a little problem with their server.
June 2001
on the Former North Shore Branch
new STATEN ISLAND YANKEE STADIUM SIR STATION
To be open only during Games.
Located some 1500 feet west of the Ferry Terminal
I was just getting off work from driving the bus for eight hours, and what goes south on the I-5 through my home town....one of the NJ Transit MC-9's!!!
All the NJT logos and numbers were removed, but the tri-color stripes remained as well as the advertising racks on the sides. The rear end was covered with oil.
It didn't seem tobe occupied, was heading south (i.e. towards San Diego).
There were also a couple of these riding down I-81 through Virginia about a week ago; I wonder if those were the same ones?
-F.
do any know when bee-line is soppose to get their neoplans.
Sometime soon, but I don't know the exact date. A few months ago, I did post that I spotted 501 near Exton Station heading south on PA 100, so I would think that production will start shortly, if it hasn't already.
does any know what buses that have a tubrocharge boost gauge.
I just turned 18 last week, and will be departing high school at the end of June, and as most other 18 year-olds who's "welfare" (i.e. Daddy's Wallet) will soon be discontinued, I will be seeking part-time (full time???) employment during the summer months, and possibly continuing into the fall. I will be attending Bergen Community - I was not accepted into NJIT (my SAT was 1050 - not bad for a one-time shot with no preparation whatsoever!), so I will have to do the 2-to-4 route (2-year school and xfer to a 4-year, namely NJIT in my case).
BASTARDS!!!
Anyway, since you can apply for a CDL at age 18 in [New] Jersey, I was wondering what the minimum age is for operating one of those shuttle buses at the airport (Newark, in particular), that go around the complex from the parking lot or car rental lots to the terminals and variations thereof.
I think you know where I'm going with this, so I'll spare the detailed details. I already attempted an initial search on the PANYNJ website and Jobs.com, but found nothing.
Any information here would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
The Newark airport shuttles are operated by Red & Tan Tours of Jersey City. Call them at 201 653 0356 or email at vince.grover@coachusa.com
that's the fax number I put in that last post. Phone is 800 772 3689
I think those buses will be obsolete when they get that monorail up and running fully if it's not already...