Can anyone here confirm/deny the May 19-20 and Orchard Beach lot dates and location for this year's Roadeo?
The information you have is correct.
Ok, thanks :)
Will there be parking there? (Since this is in the parking lot... can you park on the road going there?)
What exactly will be there?
Where exactly is the Orchard Beach lots? And what buses go there?
I thought that last year's site - South Beach, Staten Island - was pretty tough to get to by bus from Midtown (compared to some past sites).
Will the BX5 and BX12 be running its summer service to Orchard Beach yet, or does that start Memorial Day? Without that, driving is the only option- or a long walk from the nearest traffic circle the BX29 stops at.
I'd rather use the QBX1 and connection to Orchard Beach for $1.50- if there is one- than pay the $3.50 each way Whitestone Bridge toll.
The March 2001 issue of At Your Service, the NYCTA Employee Newsletter, had a cover story about the placement of new engines in the 776 1990 & 1993 RTS and Orion buses. (1990-91 TMC RTS 06 T80206 #'s 8000-8396, 1993 TMC RTS 06 T80206 #'s 8401-8564, 1993 Orion 05.501 Suburban #'s 101-172 & 1993 Orion 05.501 #'s 173-316). Here is a brief synopsis of that article:
The work began in November 2000 at East New York Base Shop and the 207th Street remanufacturing facility. At the end of 2000, 75 buses had been completed. In January 2001 the work began being performed at the new Zerega Avenue Facility. It costs $75,000 to repower each bus with the entire program expected to cost $60,000,000. The Detroit Diesel 6V92TA engines originally powering these buses are being replaced with Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines. The Series 50 is a 4 cylinder, 4 cycle engine that has the horsepower and torque of a 2 cycle engine. It utilizes Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) which reroutes exhaust gases back to the engine for a more complete burn. Using ultra-low sulfur fuel combined with catalyzed exhaust filters allows the Series 50 to be comparable to a CNG engine.
The RTS requires 374 parts to complete the swap while the Orion requires 349. The RTS is simpler to swap since it's power system is installed on a removable cradle. The Orion swap must be performed right in the engine compartment. Both buses must have their engine mount positions, transmission, hydraulic and pneumatic plumbing systems, and wiring harnesses reworked. The transmissions are also upgraded. New redesigned fire suppression systems are installed in the engine compartment of both buses. At this time, NYCTA is the only agency that has designed, engineered and retrofitted buses with Series 50 EGR engines.
Has anybody seen any buses lower than #8396 repowered yet? I've seen only 8400s and 8500s repowered at this time. And also are Orion buses 400-580 and 611-680 getting repowered too?
Q32#8479Gary
Q74#279Gary
Q26#555Gary
Q48#680Gary
Orions 400-580 and 611-680 already have the Series 50 engine, so repowering of them is not necessary.
No, I have yet to see an 80xx, 81xx, 82xx, or 83xx be repowered yet, but have seen a multitude of 84xx and 85xx. JG plans to get have all their non-CNG buses to have at least Det. Diesel engines very soon.
I saw 8330 out of Flatbush with a new engin. My brother at MTV say some of there 80**'s, and 81**'s have been repower to.
Robert
i know that septa overhaul there buses
SEPTA is in the process of finishing the overhaul process on the 3000-3491 series Neoplan Transliners. The buses weren't repowered, however, the 3xxx Neos were given, among other things, the NABI livery, and also had the engines and transmissions rebuilt. Starting with the 31xx series buses, some even have new engine covers, replacing the standard lights with LED lights.
The 3xxx series buses have a 6V92TA engine with a ZF 5 speed transmission. 3000-3251 are not wheelchair lift equipped, 3252-3491 are wheelchair accessible.
There are a couple of anomolies to the 3xxx series:
* - Up until recently, Frankford #3099 had front doors which opened inward, similar to the NABIs and the new Neoplan artics, whereas most of the SEPTA buses had doors which opened similar to the RTS. (I don't know the correct terms for these doors, so bear with me.) Yesterday, I spotted 3099 pulling service on the El Shuttle (I'll have more on that in a later posting). The doors had been replaced with the standard front doors recently.
* - Frontier #3200 was retrofitted with a TwinVision destination sign. Apparently this was the pilot for that sign. The rest of the Neoplan Transliner fleet (including the 8xxx series Pennliners) had a Luminator dot-matrix sign (I think that's the right term). All SEPTA bus orders, starting with the 2056-2069 Breeze III series in 1999, have come with the TwinVision signs. This includes the Neoplan artics, the ElDorados, and probably the New Flyer D40LF.
* - Callowhill #3387 (originally assigned to Allegheny) appears to have a Voith 3 speed transmission instead of a ZF 5 speed. At least based on how the bus accellerated yesterday, that's what I think is the case.
* - Comly #3414 (also originally assigned to Allegheny) was retrofitted with a DD50 engine. Again, this was a pilot bus, as the NABIs, Neoplan artics, and D40LF buses have DD50 engines.
i know that #3376 and #3378 have long zf transmission.
I think the correct terms for the type of doors on The RTS and most of the AN440's are called "pantograph" (or plug) doors. Those on The Ikaruses, the AN460's, and The Fishbowls are called "blinker" doors. Hope that answers your question.
Actually, the "blinker" doors are 4-panel folding doors. The PCC's, The Flxible ADB's, and some Fishbowls and Flxible new looks had them as rear doors. The action is identical to the "slide-glide" 2-panel door that NABI, New Flyer and Orion (V and VI) use exclusively, most new Neoplan Transliners come with (although you could still get plug doors on them-I wish SEPTA did.), and the Wide-Front Door version of the RTS, as well as the front doors of the GM and Flxible new-looks.
No, you must be referring to bi-fold doors. I've heard the term "Blinkers" to describe The CTA "L" cars, and Fishbowls, Ikaruses, AN460's have "blinkers" (at least in the front).
what kind of engines do septa 1989 neoplan 3414.i know that it
has a ddc50 engine but how does it sounds like??
what kind of engines do septa 1989 neoplan 3414.i know that it
has a ddc50 engine but how does it sounds like??
It sounds different than The Ikaruses probably due to the exhaust system.
That's generally true for most buses with the DD50. I know that a DD50 sounds different on the NABIs than it does on the RTS, Flxible, and even the Gilligs. The Neoplan artics have a higher pitch to them as they accelerate, compared to the NABIs. Part of the sound difference could be the exhaust, however the transmission and other unique features of the bus could factor into it as well.
the nabi bus have a ddc s50 model engine at 275np.it a different engine
That's because The Neoplan artics has a DD60 instead of a DD50, so that's why they have a higher pitched whine.
I am positive that the SEPTA artics are DD50.
yes the neoplan an460 has the ddc 50 engine
at 320 @(1200rpm) horsepower.but i think the reason is for the
high pitch sound.and the nabi have 2200rpm engines
or the transmission
I've checked The Neoplan Website, and The AN460 is either offered with a DD60 or a Cummins M11-310E. They did not come with a DD50, but they do share the same transmission (Allison World B-500).
Neoplan apparently no longer uses the DD50 for it's AN-460 buses.
Yeah they are, Westchester county's buses are the first with Series 60's
Finally! Glad to be back to the board. During this week, I had some weird observations: 616 on the Q30 while 9354 did Express Service on the X68. What's this all about? Also 3807 and 3818 did Q46 service this week. Another bus that did local service on the Q17 was 9347. Yes you all read that right-that's not a typo for 9547. 9347! And to wrap it all up here 9287-9288 were seen on Friday doing X68 service. I wonder how many EXPRESS Novas QV is getting to replace 1751 1767 1773 and 1852? Right now 22 Express Buses for 1 line?! And from what I hear more MCI buses are on the next order?! Boy there's a surplus of Express Buses. Why can't they postpone the MCI order for a while since we got too many Express Buses to begin with?
Q30#616Gary
X68#9354Gary
Q46#3807Gary
Here is an observation that can be taken as a slap in the face to Queens County express bus riders.NYCTA MCI D4501 #2165 on the X25(WTC-Grand Central).I thought these coaches were brought for the purpose of comfort on long runs like the x1 or x27 not a short run like the x25.If this is the case some of that order should be reallocated to CS for x51 or JAM(park them on the street like YUK does) for the x63 or x64.This is a slap in the face to Queens County.
[I though these coaches (MCIs) were bought for comfort on long runs like the X1 or X27, not a short run like the X25.]
You're right. However, most BusTalkers should know that the X25 does NOT operate on its own. Instead, it's operated ENTIRELY by runs on the X27 and X29 (at almost zero cost, since those buses would be deadheading back to Brooklyn anyway). Therefore, as long as MCIs show up on the X27, they'll show up on the X25 as well.
Riders are paying the same fare on the X25 as on the X1 and X27. Why shouldn't they be granted the same level of comfort, especially considering that the X25 costs less to operate?
Flatbush has been running 3000 and 4000 express busses on the B2 for weeks. There are more soft seaters than hard seaters running.
2174 has the new New York plate; official, starts with a K.
Story ran in the Advance last week about a new bus service direct from Bay Ridge to CSI. No word on routing or numbering, but it may be either a spur of the s53, or an entirely new route.
And my car was wreaked on Friday night in front of a B37 bus. The bus was univolved, but I screwed up southbound service for a while.
-Hank
I assume you were able to walk away from it uninjured? Cars can be replaced........
Yeah, Jodi and I walked away. The accident report is screwed up, though.
http://www.quuxuum.org/~nixon/new/Car1.jpg
-Hank
You seem to have lots of accidents.
Peace,
ANDEE
PS-I'm glad everyone is OK
Peace,
ANDEE
Not me specifically. It seems to run in my family.
I put us some more pics. Now they're at http://www.quuxuum.org/~nixon/new/car
Speaking of accidents, look at the 'Bus Plunge!' thread.
-Hank
I had occasion to go visit my mother this weekend, she lives on NJTs 168 route. I was plesantly surprised to get a new MCI on the way out (#7597) and on the way back today (Sunday). These busses are VERY nice, I was quite impressed. While I think these busses are still WAY overbuit for this type of use, they are nice I especially like the use of the underseat blue lights to light up the floor and that new bus smell is heaven. Got my moneys worth.
Peace,
ANDEE
Last weekend at Disneyworld i spotted a AE 20 Eagle leaving the park (i was on the monorail at the time) It still had the NJT stripes above the windows and "The Way To Go" still on the driver side could not see the plate or company name on it. Also Inter County Motor Coach was there. And they now have a shirt with the RTS on it with mickey and crew on it could not find a adult size only kids size.
When is the new batch of Orion Hybrids due to arrive.
According to the TT roster:
All Orion 7s due sometime this year, most likely Oct/Nov.
They are:
150 CNG: 9700-9849
225 HEV: #s unknown
Hope this helps.
ACTUALLY, according to Trevor Logan, there are to be 300 hybrids and 250 CNG's, unless the TA scrapped that plan and stuck with the ones they are ordering now.
CWalNYC
carlwal@hotmail.com
Yes the 300/250 is correct, I just didn't adjust it on the site, but the 300/250 is the latest info recieved.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
so then in terms of ID, I assume the hybrids will now take 9700-9999, and the CNG will be determined in the future.
i think that septa is geting 12 new flyers that might have
hydrid.
Last wendensday i was in City Hall taking pictures & i saw Hybrid Novabus RTS #6360 coming into last stop. I took a picture of Hybrid Novabus RTS when the bus leave the bus stop. It had something on the top of the bus & i want u to take a look at the picture.
www.geocities.com/novabusrts/rts6360.jpg
BTW it good to be back on SUB/BUSTALK again.
Peace
David Justiniano
Soon to Be NYCT-MTA Traffic Checker
The thing on the top of the bus near the rear is I believe 2 feet high, and is the hybrid propulsion system.
Not the entire thing. It's batteries and the electronics control package, from what I hear.
These things are the future, but I'm surprised that stuff doesn't fit under the floor.
-Hank
Well this is a guess. If the thing goes then if it was under the floor the entire bus support would be gone, but if it went where it is now there would just be some celing repairs necessary. Again, it's a guess.
the hybrid generater should be in the engine instead of
up top of the bus
I saw and RODE the bus, and I have a picture on my home site: http://cleanairbus.tripod.com/cleanairbuspage
Enjoy!
CWalNYC
I saw this Yukon bus last Sunday on the Q56 route in Queens. It had Yukon decals and was in service at the E.N.Y. depot. Was it there for maintenance, and was being tested locally before it went back to Yukon? Maybe 2270 is doing a great job out there and 8300 is no longer needed. How is 2270 doing anyway?
8300 is a training bus but why it's at ENY I don't have a clue. I heard 2270 and 2660 are doing well over at Yukon for now. ENY has 4945-5024, 5205-5249 and a few other Novas PLUS 8600 TMCs (8671-8703?!) Only reason I assume why the 8300s would go to ENY would be to replace the 3900-4000 series there. The other 8300s should go to QV to replace their 3900s. The Q46 had 3905 3907 4175 4324 4329 4344 4501 7012 7016 this morning. I was the lucky 1 having 616-a Suburban Orion.
Q56#8674Gary
Q46#616Gary
8299 and 8300 are used as training busses as well as local service, as I have ridden on them before. Why it is on a "Q" route, I do not know. As for replacing older Queens busses, Yukon cannot spare giving up any other busses, as they are short (hence 2270 and 2660 Reactivations). They sent more than 70 Orions to Castleton not too long ago to make room for the MCIs, so they would not have to park at the Arthur Kill Annex/Turnaround. The 25 or so Orions they have for locals, are used mainly on the S79, with the excess and RTSs on the S55/56, and S61/91. Other busses are needed from Yukon in the mornings and afternoons for school specials.
Maybe it is the first of the 8000s to start undergoing repowering, and before it did, it was used on a local route?
2000
Today is the last day of the victory division contract, and they came to an agreement luckily. If they hadn't, there may have been major troubles for tomorrows commute, since Victory seems to be on of the most utilized division aside from the city. Plus, it certainly would have directly affected me, since if I missed the school bus I wouldn't have a way of getting to school! Now, it's just the Frontier division's turn to agree with teh negotiations.
the frontiar section stall have to vote on a contact
I attended Saturday's New Jersey bus tour with the MNYBA group. At Hudson Bus off RTE. 1&9 I noticed in their lot not only a couple of NYCT buses, but Long Island Bus #111 (CNG). The farebox was removed, but the bus looked intact. Anybody know why it's there ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Hello everyone! It looks like I was not alone in my hiatus; just as my computer zapped out for a week, now that I'm back online, I find that our beloved BusTalk also went under but is fortunately back in the saddle as well.
Great news, everyone; just as I was running out of Flxible Metro models for custom painting, I found some more. A shipment of a small handful is due this week. WMATA fans et al, contact me soon before these are all gone!
Also, back at Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum, we have successfully restored a 1979 Grumman Flxible 870 to original condition and are working on fine details (i.e. numbers, logos, etc.) soon. Our first successful excursion in the newly restored coach took place last weekend with much success and fanfare.
Hope to hear from everyone soon!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Fred,
congradulations on being back. the check for the white grumman is in the mail-any plans to do a 30-foot Grumman bus? let me know if possible.
Sure; I can cut one down to a 30-footer, but I can't promise it will be super cheap due to the work involved; at any rate, hit me up and let's talk about it. The same applies to anyone interested in a model of a 30' Flx. :)
-F.
im hitting u up fred-propbably order it the end of month,bt let meknow price and all that other good stuff-like seats and if i want a color though
Sounds great; I can do seats and color. Hit me up and I'll give you and estimate on the bus; same goes for all interested parties. Thanks!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Fred-am waiting on the white grumman before i buy the 30-foot(problay wont send check until after easter anyway)-can u do a 30 foot using this companys webiste:
www.suffolktransit.com
let me know if you can and price,along with seats please
If I can get into their website, no problem; I have had trouble there before but hopefully will not this time around. Thanks!
-F.
Fred-am waiting on the white grumman before i buy the 30-foot(problay wont send check until after easter anyway)-can u do a 30 foot using this companys webiste:
www.suffolktransit.com-the color scheme
let me know if you can and price,along with seats please
According to news reports, a jogger running down the middle lane of the QB service road took offense at a cabby honking at him to get out of the way. Apparently he went to the drivers side of the cab to continue the argument and was struck in the head by the side mirror of a tour bus.
According to a quick picture on Channel 2 last night it appeared to be a bright yellow Van Hool. Anybody know what company was involved with this moron ?????
The bus was from Video Tours #717. It's a charter company that picks up passengers to bring to Atlantic City.
Q60#1145Gary
Some company called Video Tours. Here's the STORY
I agree the guy must be a moron, who the hell jogs, in traffic, on Queens Blvd! A definite candidate for a Darwin award.
Peace,
ANDEE
I think this title says it all. And people say I'm misplacing blame.
-Hank
I don't think you are misplacing blame at all, the guy was acting like an idiot. The fact that the bus driver did not get any tickets speaks volumes.
Peace,
ANDEE
This title speaks volumes for what happened, because I've seen it before, and I continue to see it daily.
Although vehicles are to yield the right-of-way to pedestrians, when someone believes they have the right to obstruct the flow of traffic via consuming a center lane, regardless whether it be a service road or main road lane, that person places themself above and beyond anything around them, and those who have a problem with it be damned. The attitude I see daily is "Hit me and I'll sue". Well that's fine and dandy. If you live. Even if you live, you'd better hope you're going to recover so you can enjoy whatever damages you *might* recover.
Since the driver wasn't issued a summons, it's highly doubtful the jogger would have recovered any monetary damages. What a price to pay for arrogance, huh?
His neighbors mentioned how wonderful and giving he was. Apparently they never witnessed him playing in traffic. His "gesture" to the cabby who honked for him to get out of the way just proves the point all the more.
So, for all the other "tough guys" out there, remember this idiot, and think about what you could be doing to yourself, and to the people who love you.
Just so you know, a bus doesn't stop like a car, and air brakes DO fail, and I personally wouldn't put 15 innocent people through a bus windshield because of the blatant arrogance and stupidity of someone who thinks they are more important then anyone around them.
Amen to that. Well put Queens Village B/O. I'm sure the family is probably still going to sue the bus company. The poor driver is going to have his reputation dragged through the mud by some ambulance chasing shyster lawyer.
The poor driver is going to have his reputation dragged through the mud by some ambulance chasing shyster lawyer.
You know I like to correct people's grammar, so I'll tell you this: Please stop using redundant words. :-)
Yeah - They probably started calling the family soon after the accident occurred. I always understood why they're called ambulance chasers, but I used to think that we were a bit hard on them until my experience. Last February while stopped at a red light I was rear ended by a driver who turned out to be drunk. I was just happy that I wasn't injured or worst, but the next day several lawyers called my house. One even parked his car in the middle of traffic to give me his card - and to tell me that I "must be in pain".
I do think that many people have that "I dare you to hit me attitude". Many motorists also seem to play this type of dangerous game with other vehicles especially buses and trucks.
Wayne
Humph! I've been neglected! No lawyer called me. :( I was so looking forward to making other people's lives miserable as I sued them for my non-existant injuries.
-Hank
PS-Getting the estimate on my car today.
His family does deserve sympathy for losing a member, even though he clearly intiated the chain of events that caused his death. At age 21 you're legally an adult and should realize safety rules, not to mention the possible consequences of ones actions.
I'm sure everyone attending his wake and funeral will be cursing the mean, nasty cab driver and bus driver and how all motorists are out to 'get' all pedestrians. With all the publicity about Queens Boulevard, this whole incident is getting much more play than if it happened on another artery. The radio, TV and papers were all too eager to report yet another person struck down on the Boulevard, as if they're keeping a running tally.
As a motorist, pedestrian and former bicyclist, I see stupid, dangerous actions on the part of all of the above. When you drive, pedestrians and bicyclists dart out between parked cars, in the middle of the block or against the light and curse bloody murder when honked at. When you cross the street, motorists and bicyclists blow right through stop signs and lights, so you have to hot-foot it out of the way. On a bike- well, forget it. And if there's an accident, the bicyclist is ALWAYS wrong, not matter what.
Jogging on Queens Boulevard, even on a Sunday morning, is just plain DUMB- and this young man paid with his life.
The radio, TV and papers were all too eager to report yet another person struck down on the Boulevard, as if they're keeping a running tally.
What do you mean, "as if...?" The headline in the Daily News was "Jogger Hit by Bus Is Blvd.'s 74th Victim" (without mentioning that total is for the last 7¼ years).
Jogging on Queens Boulevard, even on a Sunday morning, is just plain DUMB- and this young man paid with his life.
Did anyone catch the sidebar in Newsday yesterday, in which a staff writer went out and did the SAME THING, from the Queensborough Bridge to Jamaica?
What is this ridiculous plan to put parking in the left lane of the service road of QB?? Do they really expect this to solve the problem??
Does anybody think Ocean Pkwy is equal to QB?? I dont think i've ever seen one commercial establishment on Ocean Pkwy(OP). Queens Blvd is about 95% commercial.
Is what's good for OP good for QB??
OP has no bus line. QB has the Q60.
OP has residences. QB is virtually all commercial.
Comments please.
Should be an interesting thread.
Well the B9 use OP for a block(service road). B1,4, and B36 uses OP for a couple of blocks as well(main road). And there is no commercial activity, although CI Hospital have an entrance on OP.
B1#7522Mike
B4#9106Mike
B9#589Mike
B36#4757Mike
There are also temples and schools on Ocean Parkway.
Ocean Parkway is very different from Queens Blvd. As has been stated, OP is residential whereas QB is commercial. There are no subway exits, bus lines (travelling the length), or business establishments attracting flocks of people. The parking on OP is to cater to those who live along the street, whereas this new ridiculous scheme to allow parking on QB is strictly to remove lane usage, thereby allowing pedestrians less traffic to maneuver against. However, it will also bring QB to a grinding halt. Especially where the bottleneck will be (Union Turnpike).
Ocean Parkway has pedestrian malls, a bike trail, and benches along the way. It's also a major through-route to NY27 (Prospect Expressway). You'd think that it would rival QB due to the pedestrian attractions and heavy traffic during the rush. It doesn't.
The service roads also function differently on QB and OP. They're true service roads on OP -- all through traffic uses the main road since the service roads have stop signs at each cross street. On QB the service roads are used just as much for traffic flow as the main roads; in fact, traffic turning right has to use slip ramps to get into the service road as turning right from the main road is not permitted. If nothing else, parking on the left side of the service road would reduce visibility for those using the slip ramps.
Ocean Parkway is not NY 27. The routing of NY 27 through Brooklyn is rather strange.
Eastbound, it uses the Prospect Expressway to the 10th Avenue exit, to 10th Av, to McDonald Av, to Church Avenue, to Coney Island Avenue, to Caton Avenue to Linden Blvd, into Queens. Westbound, it's similar, except that to continue on NY 27 West, you would turn directly onto the Prospect Expressway from Church Avenue. It's easy to get lost in this part of NY 27, there aren't any signs saying whether or not you're on this serpentine section of the route. However, in the Kensington section of Brooklyn where this occurs, there are many TO NY 27 signs around.
Queens Blvd, of course, is NY 25, which runs from the 2nd Avenue in Manhattan, across the Queensboro Bridge and down Queens Blvd to Hillside Avenue (now with the bridge under construction, eastbound NY 25 shares with eastbound NY 25A (Jackson Av) to Thompson Av, which merges with QB east of Van Dam Street.
For thos who don't know, NY 25A runs along Jackson to 21st Street, and ends at the Long Island Expressway, near the entrance to the Midtown Tunnel.
Eastbound, it uses the Prospect Expressway to the 10th Avenue exit, to 10th Av, to McDonald Av
No. It uses the Fort Hamilton Parkway exit which ramps onto East 5th Street, then turns onto Caton Avenue.
Back in the day, NY-27 used to start at West and Canal Streets, it would cross Manattan on Canal and go over the Manhattan Bridge, then it would turn onto Atlantic Avenue, Washington Avenue, Eastern Parkway, Rockaway Avenue and then Linden Boulevard. This continued until 1956 when the Prospect Expressway opened.
Also, NY-25 turns away from Hillside onto Braddock Avenue, which ends on the part of Jamaica Avenue where the Queens-Nassau border is in the median and the Nassau half is called Jericho Turnpike (which is the road's name when its 100% in Nassau County). The remainder of Hillside is NY-25B.
Back in the day, NY-25 used to turn onto Union Turnpike to Springfield Boulevard, then go down Springfield Blvd to Braddock Avenue.
And the part of NY-25A along Jackson and 21st is a relatively recent innovation.
In the past there was also NY-25C, NY-25D and NY-27A. AND Second Avenue (and First) was part of NY-1A, so NY-25 started on another state route, instead of in the middle of nowhere when it comes to state routes.
no one here mentioned staten islands boulevard of death hylan boulevard. it rivals queens blvd in fatalities and today consumed another senior citizen. he was jaywalking and hit by motorist with learners permit and no supervising driver. none of its recent fatalities involved buses. the street is mostly commercial but also a large residential stretch. it is 3 lanes to 2 in some places and parking is banned along a good portion.
And unlike Queens Boulevard or Ocean Parkway, there's a sizeable wilderness stretch.
That's right. TRUCK NY 27 follows a route similar to the one R36 gave, except it doesn't divert to Church.
This means that the south end of the southbound Prospect doesn't have a touring route number while the south end of the northbound Prospect does. Internally, NYSDOT considers all of the Prospect to be route 27. (The portion of NY 27 on city streets is maintained by NYCDOT.)
Ocean Parkway is, in fact, a state highway as well -- according to Empire State Roads, it's reference route 908H, which for some reason is not posted on reference markers along the road at tenth-mile intervals.
Pork, you mentioned some very interesting routings. I'm familiar with Braddock/Jericho but had no idea there were C/D subdivisions. Are there online map of these routes? WHere could one visit to learn more about this?
As an aside, I don't think I said OP was NY27, I think I said it was a major through-route TO NY27, and at 4am, if I didn't, I meant to :-)
I have to agree with David regarding the left-turn slips from the QB main roadway into the service roads. Parked cars will hinder and obstruct the vision of motorists merging, even if that merge would consist of a single lane. Seems dangerous to me.
Also, it will be very interesting to see how the Q46 and Q74 make the left "U-turn" across Queens Blvd with parked cars in the turn lane :-)
Although reports have described "Union Turnpike" as the eastern-most intersection where this left lane metered parking will be installed, I'm sure, after the NYCTA discusses the situation with the DOT, they will end (begin) at 77th, and not Union. Let's hope so, anyway!
NYCRoads.com is a good place to start for the history of roads, bridges, and route numbers in NYC and environs. Try to pick up some old maps, too, especially those printed by H.M. Gousha (most AAA and gas station maps are).
Pork, you mentioned some very interesting routings. I'm familiar with Braddock/Jericho but had no idea there were C/D subdivisions. Are there online map of these routes? WHere could one visit to learn more about this?
NY-25C was the remaining portion of Union Turnpike and Marcus Avenue.
NY-25D was Horace Harding Boulevard and Nassau Boulevard. When the Horace Harding Expressway was built as an extension of the Queens Midtown Expressway along this route, it took the number. The number was eliminated when the highway was extended to Nassau County and renamed the Long Island Expressway (it became NY-24 for a brief period).
Interesting. What was the entire length of 25C?
Would you believe I had a map of NYC (circa 1949) and threw it out? It was a HUGE atlas. One for the city, one each for Nassau and Suffolk. The pages were so brittle that it crumbled simply opening it. Too bad :(
Interesting. What was the entire length of 25C?
Just what I said. It started on Union Turnpike where NY-25 left it (just like 25B with Hillside) then went down that and Marcus Avenue to 25B.
I would love to see the 46 stand at 530 pm with parking on the left side, QV_BO. LOL
If DOT wants an idea how a service road works in a commercial strip, i suggest they scout out Main Street between 72 and 73 Avenues. Granted it's not a wide as QB, but just look at the mess. Especially around the time of passover or any other jewish holiday.
Ocean Parkway has the B9 from Avenue M to Avenue N, the B1 from Avenue X to Brighton Beach Avenue and the B36 and B4 from Avenue Z to Neptune Avenue for the B4 and Surf Avenue for the B36.
Parking in the left lane of Queens Blvd may actually create more the situation worst. You'd have more pedestrians going to/from vehicles parked in the left lanes. On top of that then you'd have the extra cars stopping to park on the left side and pulling out into traffic. I think it's a recipe for disaster.
Wayne
Don't forget the ever-present double parkers bringing everything to a grinding halt. People will still insist on parking in bus stops as well, so traffic will only travel as fast as the slowest Q60.
>>> Although vehicles are to yield the right-of-way to pedestrians <<<
Is that the law in NYC? If so, no wonder you have so many jaywalkers. In California, the pedestrian has the right of way only in marked or unmarked crosswalks. Any pedestrian crossing in the middle of a block does so at his own peril, and no driver is required to yield to allow him to cross. This does not mean a driver can intentionally hit a pedestrian, but if a jaywalker is about to cross in front of a driver, the driver can use his horn instead of the brakes to intimidate the pedestrian without fear of getting a ticket.
Tom
Well I'm speaking as a professional driver. I believe that the pedestrian has the right-of-way when outside the crosswalk, as a defensive driving mechanism rather than offensive (as in honking rather than braking).
Any NYSDMV driving manual will tell you to yeild the ROW to pedestrians, as will training via the NYCTA DOB.
The law? I'm not sure. Anyone?
I have a picture yet to be developed of RTS #7037 on the Q88 route. What's weird about this picture is that the rear sign reads as follows:
The sign is correct as posted. However, if you notice the sign on a newer RTS buses (like something in the 4900 series), you would see something similar
I've seen a similar anomaly on some X68 buses. Why are 10 pixel high characters being used on signs that are only 7 pixels high?
Sometimes I see some HP 8500's like that. BUT it's in the front end of the bus.
TMC RTS#8500
I have a picture of 8504 displaying the anomaly you're describing (14-11), but what I'm talking about is on the rear sign.
Because of the Queens Blvd Bridge reconstruction, what will the reroutes be? I guess that the Q32 and the Q60 will be the most affected. My guess would be that eastbound buses would make a right on Jackson, a left on either Thompson or 44th Drive, then follow Thompson to Queens Blvd, then resume regular route.What'll be the deal here?
From what I saw on bus 1157 on the Q60 this morning, the Q32, Q60 and Q101 buses will stop around the corner on 28 Street across the street from where the B61 drops off. Then the Q32 and Q60 will go over to Thompson Ave to go back to Queens Blvd. 15-18 months of this all-so either get used to the delays or ride the RedBirds above. The Q19A, Q39 and Q67 will stop between 23 St and 24 St on Queens Plaza South. I believe that the Q101 LIMITED is not affected.
Q101#327Gary
Q60#1157Gary
Q32#8500Gary
B61#823Gary
Q19A#2802Gary
Q67#341Gary
Q39#1184Gary
There are some changes for the Q101, Q102 & Q67 that operate out of this depot. Since I'm NOT a official spokesperson, please call nycDOT or QSC at 718-445-3100 if you need more detail.
Mr t__:^)
So the Q32's and the Q60's move around the corner to where the Q19A and Q39, Q67, and Q102 used to stop, the Triboro Coach buses pickup at the layup point near the post office, and the Q101 is unaffected. Interesting...
HBQ 448 and HBW 4321
Routings
Effective April 2,2001
NYCT Q32 via Queensboro Bridge Plaza South ,28 street, 42 Road,,Jackson Av,Thomspson Av,Queens Blvd
Green Bus Lines
Q60
same as above
Triboro Coach Corp
Q19A via Bridge Plaza South ,24 street,Right on 43 Av,L on 23 street,,R on 44 Drive,to 21 St
Q39 same as Above ,Left on 44 Drive,Left on Thompson Av
Queens Surface
Q67 R on 24 st,,L on 43 Av,,R on Jackson Av and Regular
Q101 Express ,,R on 24 st,R on 42 Road,and regular
Q101 Local Lower Level at all times,R on 28 st..PU and Drop off
Q102 R on 24 st,L on 43 Av,L on Jackson Av and regualr
Layovers will be allowed Between 22 and 23 st on Queens Plaza South
---------------------------------------------------
this is through Oct 2002
Relocation of Existing Bus Stops on Queens Plaza South between 27 st and 28 Street
Q32 28 st Westside between Queens Plaza and 42 Road
Q60 same
Q101 same
Q101 Rikers---Queens Plaza South Southside between 23 and 24 Street
all the above formerly stopped on South bet 27 and 28 Street
--------------------------------------------------
Relocation of Existing Bus Stops on 28 street between Queens Plaza South and 42 Road
Q19A 24 Street Westside between Queens Plaza South and 42 Road
Q39 same as above
Q67 same as above
Q102 Queens Plaza SOuth Southside between 23 and 24 street
all the above Formerly stopped on 28 Street Westside ,between Queens Plaza South and 42 Road
HBQ 448 and HBW 4321
Routings
Effective April 2,2001
NYCT Q32 via Queensboro Bridge Plaza South ,28 street, 42 Road,,Jackson Av,Thomspson Av,Queens Blvd
Green Bus Lines
Q60
same as above
Triboro Coach Corp
Q19A via Bridge Plaza South ,24 street,Right on 43 Av,L on 23 street,,R on 44 Drive,to 21 St
Q39 same as Above ,Left on 44 Drive,Left on Thompson Av
Queens Surface
Q67 R on 24 st,,L on 43 Av,,R on Jackson Av and Regular
Q101 Express ,,R on 24 st,R on 42 Road,and regular
Q101 Local Lower Level at all times,R on 28 st..PU and Drop off
Q102 R on 24 st,L on 43 Av,L on Jackson Av and regualr
Layovers will be allowed Between 22 and 23 st on Queens Plaza South
---------------------------------------------------
this is through Oct 2002
Relocation of Existing Bus Stops on Queens Plaza South between 27 st and 28 Street
Q32 28 st Westside between Queens Plaza and 42 Road
Q60 same
Q101 same
Q101 Rikers---Queens Plaza South Southside between 23 and 24 Street
all the above formerly stopped on South bet 27 and 28 Street
--------------------------------------------------
Relocation of Existing Bus Stops on 28 street between Queens Plaza South and 42 Road
Q19A 24 Street Westside between Queens Plaza South and 42 Road
Q39 same as above
Q67 same as above
Q102 Queens Plaza SOuth Southside between 23 and 24 street
all the above Formerly stopped on 28 Street Westside ,between Queens Plaza South and 42 Road
For those who want to see those new SEPTA El Dorados, 4501 (the prototype bus) is featured on the most recent Breeze schedules (route 310 and 311). In my opinion, they are ugly, but they appear to have Twin Vision signs, and it seems to be bi line, which is unusual for an El Dorado, at least out of the ones I see. Also, the stripe on the side of the bus is narrow, as I expected. Why can't SEPTA do something like MUNI did on their MANs when there isn't enough space above the windows, and just put the strip below the windows?
i been seen on the eldorado on the 305 schedule
What's an El Dorado?
Peace,
ANDEE
a eldorado transmark is a small bus
Thank You
Peace,
ANDEE
If you would like to see what El Dorado that SEPTA have and want to see photos of it go to this web site.
http://www.ctrabs74.50megs.com/septa/eldorado.html
OK.
Orion5 #135
I fround anouther web site with the SEPTA EL Dorado photos.
http://www.geocites.com/transitalk/Sites/SEPTA/SEPTA_Eldorado.html
OK.
Orion5 #135
4501 is actually only on the 310 schedule; the 311 timetable features Breeze #2005 in the foreground, with a Neo artic signed for the 22 in the background at Willow Grove Park mall in Montgomery County.
4501 is also pictured on the 305 (Airport to Darby via Sharon Hill and Eastwick) timetable.
The ElDorados have been pulling down service on the 92/133 quite a bit lately. It's almost been a 50/50 split between Breeze vans and ElDorados. I took 4518 on Saturday (92 between West Chester and Exton Mall). A couple of co-eds from West Chester Univ. were a little surprised at the automatic stop announcement system.
Oh, okay, I just assumed that since it was on the 310 schedule, it would be on the 311 schedule as well. Also, about the 305, don't they sometimes use the full sized buses? One day I saw a Neoplan with the destination sign reading 305. I always thought it was a mini bus route. Also, aren't 300 series routes basically contractor routes? When I was reading the victory strike plan in the metro, they said that the 305 would also not be in service. Speaking of the metro plan, why is the 108 running during the hypothetical strike? Isn't it a victory route as well?
305 is operated by Red Arrow. In theory, it's supposed to be a small bus route, as the line is generally supposed to get 35 ft Neoplans (13xx series). Of course, with the arrival of the ElDorados, the 13xx Neos will go to that big bus garage in the sky...
Generally, 300s are supposed to be small bus/contract routes, and are broken down as follows:
301 - Bethayres/Newtown Grant and 302 - Fox Chase RRD Station/Southampton: Was operated by Lion Tours until April 1, however these routes have been assigned to CTD (haven't confirmed which depot yet, but it's most likely Comly). This line was supposed to be abandoned on April 1, however the Chairman of SEPTA's board, who is from Bucks County where the 301 and 302 are based, held off on putting the suspension of service until next month. The 301 was to have been abandoned in it's entirety, while the 302 was supposed to be absorbed into the 24 bus, which operates the same routing from Fox Chase to Bethayres.
304 - Torresdale/Bristol via State Rd: This was created in January as part of a route restructuring in Lower Bucks. The 304 is operated by Frontier, and portions of this route were once part of the old 129 routing.
305 - Darby/Philadelphia International Airport: See explaination above.
310 - Willow Grove Park mall/Horsham Twp (Horsham Breeze), 311 - Willow Grove Park mall/Commonwealth Corp Ctr (Commonwealth Breeze), and 316 - LUCY (Loop through University City): Service is operated by SEPTA's Trenton/Philadelphia Coach division, based at the former Germantown depot. These are part time operators who also operate the Phlash Downtown Loop for the City of Philadelphia.
314 - Goshen Corporate Park/Larkin's Corner via West Chester and Chadds Ford: Service is contracted to Krapf's Coaches.
As for the 108, that route is also operated by CTD (Southern). If Red Arrow went on strike, the only 108 trips that would run would be the trips from Southern. Conversely, if the CTD went out on strike, the 108 would still run, however only the Red Arrow trips would have operated. Since both CTD and Red Arrow have new contracts, it's a moot point.
The 108 operates out of Southern now? I haven't heard that one. I thought all "1XX" routes operate out of Victory (unless SEPTA decided to jumble the routes and divisions again).
It's been that way for a long time. The 108 used to be two routes as I recall. The 108 operated from 69 St Terminal to (IIRC) 67 St & Elmwood. The CTD operated U line operated from 67 St & Elmwood to Eastwick, and subsequently Philadelphia International Airport. The two lines were consolidated into the present 108 sometime in the early 1980s, though I don't know exactly when. I'll have to check on that at some point, but I'm sure that's how the 108 became what it is today.
the u was retired in 1993
Today many 108 trips from 69th street just go to 67th and Elmwood.
Today many 108 trips from 69th street just go to 67th and Elmwood. That's where all the NABIs that are run on this route go.
i rode that bus for the first time.the bus had a quick acc.
Long Island Train & Hobby Center in Mineola has the Hot Wheels RTS in "School Bus No. 3" scheme; asking price was $20.
These do show up on eBay quite frequently, though I've never seen one that high in price. I think I paid $6.00 at most for one.
And to think I had brand-new ones when Hot Wheels first issued them, heaven only knows where they disappeared to!
Yeah, I just lost an e-Bay bid for one; it went to $5.50. I have one around from my childhood, somewhere; I'm still digging around for it :).
I have one that I am placing onto a rail dragster chassis; I also have one that I am repainting in Baltimore MTA colors and replacing the Hot Wheels rims with tandems and real rubber tires to match their RTS IIs. I can't WAIT to see what that baby looks like. :)
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
I remember when these were brand new; in fact, I repainted a whole slew of them in Valley Metro colors, complete with actual fleet numbers, to match our Grumman 870s (back in the 80s, this was the closest thing you could find to a Grumman that was readily available to a kid). I also cut two of them up to make a 40' version, complete with tandems and Alcoa-type wheels.
Just think; other kids my age were playing with GI Joes!
-F.
Valley Metro of Phoenix has some distintive colors alright.
Had a few conversations with them many years ago just before we got the new farebox here (they had modified theirs to take credit cards)
Mr t__:^)
Actually, I was referring to Valley Metro of Roanoke, VA but yes, they do indeed have some distinctive colors...very much on the wild side. As of late, so do we with our wrapped buses; we too got new fareboxes (called "SmartBoxes" but were actually quite a dumb move as they are unreliable and constantly jam up dollar bills, therefore holding up traffic and further jading people on transit as a congestion solution along routes).
Personally, I think they need to sh*tcan these things and put the old boxes back on across the board. On the bright side, all of our buses are being retrofitted with LEDs at the hind quarters, which is a smart move on their part (and they look COOL!).
-F.
Do you know who makes these "SmartBoxes" for Valley Metro of Roanoke, VA ? ... Cubic, GFI, Agent ?
I was sent a CD-ROM from Agent a couple of years ago, realy lame.
Mr t__:^)
GFI, I think. They have supplied Valley Metro for several years....
-F.
Then that would be their "Odyssey Revenue Centre" fare box, part of their "Smart Bus System". It's similar to several others on the market, i.e. it does bills, coin & dip/swipe cards.
Mr t__:^)
Yeah...it's called "The Smart Box" but is actually "The Dumb Box" because it holds up both service and traffic, further jading Roanoke's already small bus-riding crowd during their transit experience.
In the Roanoke Valley, there is an average daily ridership of about 5,000 in a population of around 250,000; that's sad. People around here are so stuck on their cars, especially in the suburbs. And traffic jams due to silver sh*tboxes failing on routes isn't going to make matters any better. I hope they can those stupid things.
-F.
$20? Shoot...I've got one of those for sale and I can do better than that! (Hit me up if interested.)
-F.
"Long Island Train & Hobby Center in Mineola has the Hot Wheels RTS in "School Bus No. 3" scheme; asking price was $20. "
Is this Long Island Train & Hobby Center Willis Hobbies ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Might be, it was near Jericho Tpke and Willis Avenue. It was a pretty quick glance at the awning; all that registered was "Long Island Train & Hobby Center" :)
I have a Matchbox MCI Cruiser on my desk that a friend from Brooklyn bought me for Christmas. It has all the Happy Meal guys on the side & is right next to my cardboard HBLR car.
Mr t__:^)
I have a hot wheels MCI also in all black and with Disneyworld 2001 on it.
Neat! I have also designed some cardboard buses for our museum to help raise funds on our proposed online store, including a Grumman Flxible and a Flx New Look. Next projects: 30' and 40' Fishbowls, AM Generals, and Old Looks.
-Fred Donaher
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Nice to have the page back and Dave I hope you liked over this side of the Atlantic.When the Board was down I payed the sites photo page another visit and was very impressed with the content.
The Joe Testagrose collection is quite superb, but I noticed the lack of car traffic all they year's ago in a lot of his shot's. Taking in to account the type and standard of camera's and film he was probably using and us now having Digital technology but with heavy traffic congestion to contend with, who had the easier task of photography, him or us.
Well you're right on one thing, there are more motor vehicles today than there were when those pictures were taken. I think, however, that the difficulty is the same as it was back then. Then again, I take most of my bus pictures on sidewalks and crosswalks. Rarely do I step into the street. It all depends on how you look at it.
BTW dave, I've noticed some pictures are in the wrong place. This one for example was taken in Queens, not Manhattan. Some take me back to familiar places, at different times, like this one. The Orbach's is now JC Penney and the Fayva is now a McDonald's. (I should take a picture of Q11 buses laying up there sometime.)
I'd love to see some vintage 70's shots from the area routes where I grew up, such as the B-2, B-5, B-3, B-31, B-50, B-44. Can anyone point the direction?
By-the-way, based on the routes I've given, can you isolate the neighborhood in which I grew up?
The B5 & B50 must be no more, but I know the area well; on family vacations from RI to "New York," cousins' apartments over there served as our lodging. For most of my formative years, that's all I knew of New York City :).
Kings Hwy/Marine Park
B44#4621Mike
Posted by SubBus on Tue Apr 3 17:14:20 2001, in response to Re: Is taking Bus photo's getting easier, posted by Queens_Village_BO on Tue Apr 3 16:39:02 2001.
Kings Hwy/Marine Park
Grew up in Marine park. Was a "regular" at the old Nostrand Movie Theatre. As neighborhood kids, we were allowed in free because the manager got tired of one of us paying and opening the back door for the rest. (Thanks Juliette :-) Spent many childhood nights on that fire escape, the roof, then in "Nostrand Park" on Nostrand Avenue and Marine Parkway (just off Kings Highway). Later, we moved onto the corner. When we started driving, we drifted into Bensonhurst and "cruised 86" (who knows what I mean!?)
Took the B2 (or B5/B41) to Kings Plaza often.
Took the B5 and B50 to the Kings Highway D/M/QB.
Took the B44 to Sheepshead Bay (before there was a UA complex).
Took the B31 B5 B3 B2 to see my dad (he drove them).
and of course..
Took the Q35 to the beach!
Lived in Marine Park from 1971 - 1990. It was a great neighborhood!
Anyone have any pics of these buses from the 70s?
What do I win? A free QV depot sticker? A tour of QV depot?? A ride on a 1982 express? Cmon, Ill accept anyone of these prizes......
The Arera that you grew up is Marine Park. Most likely you 1st live was between Ave U,Gerritsen AVE,Nostrand AVE,and AVE R.
B3 Orion5 #123
Posted by Orion5 #135 on Tue Apr 3 17:41:47 2001, in response to Re: Is taking Bus photo's getting easier, posted by Queens_Village_BO on Tue Apr 3 16:39:02 2001.
The Arera that you grew up is Marine Park.
Yep!
Most likely you 1st live was between Ave U,Gerritsen AVE,Nostrand AVE,and AVE R.
Nope!
Relly after Fayva was VIM THEN came Mcdonalds. And just by looking at the photo.Looks like the car in the backgrond is going to turn the WRONG way on to the Eastbound side of Queens BLVD. That driver must be a NUT to do that.
Flxible Newlook#702
Note that there's NO DRIVER in that bus! That Riviera is probably just trying to sneak around on the right side. That's still about as bright as jogging on the Queens Blvd service road.
I was referring to what now is there, not what it was between then and now. And the car behind the bus might just be an employee of the bus company. Otherwise, it might be some nut trying to make a right turn onto Hoffman Drive, also an eastbound one way street. (Hoffman Drive is located in front of the bus. QB is behind it. The other bus in the picture is between the eastbound and westbound service roads of Queens Blvd.)
In fact, you won't see a Q29 in that spot anymore. Until last year, the Glendale-bound 29 would operate south on 92nd Street, turn right (west) on 59th Avenue, cross Queens Boulevard and continue straight (south) on Woodhaven Boulevard past Hoffman Drive and under the LIE overpass.
With changes in one-way streets around the mall (59th Avenue one-way east from QB; 57th Avenue one-way west into it), the 29 now turns right off 92nd Street onto 57th Avenue, crosses the Boulevard, and turns left on Hoffman Drive immediately before the Elmwood Theatre, then passing behind Saint John's Hospital instead of in front of it. The stop for people coming out of the subway for the Glendale-bound 29 is on the far side of Hoffman immediately before the right turn onto Woodhaven, by the playground.
The Q38 towards Forest Hills via Middle Village does this as well. Both routes keep their original routings the other way.
There used to be a Nathans, later Roy Rogers, right on the SW corner of Queens & Woodhaven. Now it's a Sears automotive center.
Notice the lack of pedestrians in the picture. Today there's mobs of them at any given time of day.
[Both routes keep their original routings the other way (i.e. northbound/eastbound).]
Not quite. Because of the 57th/59th Avenue one-way pair, the Q38 toward LeFrak City has to stay on 59th Avenue until Junction Blvd, then left Junction, right 57th, into the original routing.
BTW how many people remember that was a Wetson's until 1975(What is now the Sears Auto Center.
I do !!!! Then it became a Roy Rogers. I remember belonging to a synagogue youth group that had arranged to meet a JBL charter there to go to Belmont Lake Park for a regional picnic and the bus came late due to a breakdown. By the time we got to the park the best looking girls were already taken.
What do expect from a company run by the Coopers,even back then the their buses were garbage.Those TDH-5301,5303 & 5305's were usually waiting for a tow truck.The New look Flexibles were the only good running bus .
Funny thing IIRC the bus that showed up 45 minutes late was a New Look Flxible. Don't know if it was a replacement or the original equipment scheduled and the driver showed up late at the garage.
I need the years and models for the following Blitz Fishbowls:
#5311, 5330, 5333, 5340, 5396
Can anyone please advise? Thanks in advance!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I believe that they were all 1972 GMC's, model T6H-5309A.
NYCTA #5311 (s/n 2542), 5330 (2561), 5333 (2564), 5340 (2571), 5396 (2627) are actually 1965 GM TDH-5303 fishbowls, originally purchased for MaBSTOA.
True, but those are not the buses Trevor was talking about. He was referring to buses that were built in the early 1970s, mostly in the 6000-series, and were rehabilitated by Blitz in 1984-85 following the removal of the Grumman 870s from service in early 1984.
David
Are you sure about this? The 1965 TDH-5303's had no AC, the rebuilts had AC. Blitz rebuilts 5000-5022 were 1966 TDH-5303A's, perhaps these are what you were referring to.
I just went by the numbers Trevor listed, and cross-checked them with my on-line TA Fishbowl Roster.
Check the post by David (28978) on Tues. April 3. The original 1965 MABSTOA fishbowl numbers did include the 5300's, not to be confused with the Blitz rebuilds which were renumbered, also to the 5000's as Trevor had listed. These were originally numbered in the 4000's, 6000's and 8000's. The 1965 fishbowls were already retired by the time the Blitzes went into service. Hope this clears up any confusion.
Does anyone in the Boston area (rtspcc?) know which garage is hosting the MBTA roadeo in June? I think they either held it at Cabot or Charlestown last year. I think it'll be a blast.
It's usually at Charlestown because they have more room.
Anyone ever see this site?
http://users.lmi.net/tcs55/index.html
-Hank
Great news everyone! I have replenished my fading stock of diecast Flxible Metros; I now have another small handful of these available for custom painting, including the beloved WMATA version, which is available in your choice of fleet number.
I can also do other cities (i.e. Valley Metro, Roanoke, VA); feel free to write me with any questions!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Fred:
Please send me more info at the address above, including pricing, etc.
Brian Colby/Orion5bjc
For the past 5 days the N21 has been leaving Glen Cove up to 15 minutes late or more. A few times it appeared to be a wheelchair, which can delay the bus up to 10 minutes or more each time, since the middle sidewalks seats opposite the rear door were up.
Then today was the topper. I had a 9:30am doctor appointment (checkup) in Mineola. So I plan to take the N21 out of Glen Cove at 7:55am which would get me to Roslyn at 8:15am, either catching the 8:20 or 8:40 N23 to Mineola which would get there before or just after 9am.
The 7:55am is extremely late, it doesn't show until 8:25am.
So I asked the driver "what happened?" and he said there was a breakdown. I've seen 3 breakdowns just in the past week.
I get to Roslyn just a few minutes before the 8:40am N23, and just make it. Had I missed it I would've been late for my appointment (the next 23 was 9:00am and would get there just after 9:30am). The buses always take longer than scheduled, especially on the north shore.
Getting around on the LI Buses is really getting on my nerves, especially the N21. It's so far north up here that it takes at least 30 minutes to send another bus up from the depot when it breaks down.
I'm telling you I've got to get another apartment and get out of this horrible town. Living in Sea Cliff and using the bus is really terrible.
FANTASY IDEA: Lets raise money so Qtraindash7 can find another apartment.
WILDER IDEA: Turn Glen Cove Road into a highway and remove all traffic lights. Open up Shore road to four lanes. Put a 3rd lane on northern Blvd. Electrify the Oyster Bay line. And put all NIMBY's on an isolated island against their will!
We feel your pain John ... keep a stiff upper lip.
Mr t__:^)
I visited Midwest Bus Corp.'s Webpage. They are the ones that remanufactured the 81-82 RTSs which are now the 7500s. Check out the page www.midwestbus.com . Click on REBUILDERS. At the top of the page is a NYC MTA RTS. I really couldn't see the number that well - looked like 4625 or 4825. It was in the old paint scheme with the "M" on the front. Anybody have any clue why it was there or if it had gone for repairs?
It was probably 1625 or 1825.Those 1981 and 82 GMC RTS-04's.4625 & 4825 are 1987/8 TMC RTS-06's
If you look closely, it doesn't appear to be a "1" as the first digit, but rather "4", and it looks in too good of shape to be one of the 81/82 models.
I heard a report this morning (on WINS NEWS) that the city is going to investigate why Green Bus Lines has a high rate of pedestrian fatalities.
Has anyone else heard about this?
BMTman
Page A7 in yesterdays Newsday(City Edition)has an article on its involvement with pedestrian fatalities(it has the highest rate of any company under DOT jurisdiction).
no
MAIN REASON: Q60- QUEENS BLVD!!! Operated by GBL. Loads of elderly or disabled people take the Q60 along Queens Blvd and they'll go in the middle of traffic just to get the bus. I know and I've seen it happen. Look at where that elderly man got killed at a few months back: Queens Blvd and 80 Rd-Kew Gardens. GBL 5546. That's 1 reason. GBL has the oldest equipment of ANY of the DOT Companies-buses that are 15-16 years old-they could lose control. They got rid of buses that were 21 years old JUST LAST YEAR! I had a 1986 RTS bus this morning-647. A SLOW ride once again. 25 minutes to get from Queens Center-Kew Gardens Rd. Because of these dumb people that should be on MTV'S JACKASS cross in the middle of the street to run for a bus is the reason why traffic on QB is so slow. Not in a hurry? Take Queens Blvd-the BLVD where you will eventually have to crawl to get to work.
Q60#647Gary
Queens Blvd-The Creeping Crawler!
Speaking of Queens Blvd-80 Rd, on Sunday night/Monday morning around 12:05,I was waiting for the light at that location. I was waiting to make a left turn onto the blvd. A Q10 that was going to the depot decides to squeeze right next to me to wait for the light. He had to squeeze past me since he was making that quick right off Kew Gds Rd, then making a right onto the blvd. Since he didn't want to wait for me to move when the light turned green, he missed taking my right side view mirror off by about six inches! I think the company should be investigated.
Can someone tell me why #6361 is NOT in service yet? It was going to be in service by last mouth. BUT As I check the Rosters it did NOT show #6361 in Service. Where is #6361 now? Anybody ever saw #6361?
Novabus RTS#6361
6361 and 6362 are built and is at NovaBUS in New Mexico, those two still have to take a trip to Altoona, PA before hitting the mean streets of NYC. 6363 and 6364 are still in the building process.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Passed the storage yard used by NYC DOT for storage. Noticed that Command RTS-CNG's 4918 and 4927 where were destroyed in seperate accicdents and stored there were missing. MCI 431 which was also destroyed in an accicdent was still there.
Noticed that Command 351,Triboro 2805 and a lot of Varsity School buses and some old 1000 Green Bus Lines equipment still there
This as of April 1st and its not a joke.
Thank You
This must be a curse or something. A bus i wanted to bid on ebay i lost and now bustalk down again. What is the deal?
Um, bustalk is up and running fine. Don't you see all the posts from the past few days?
Are there any retired Pat buses running in other states?Last year many Neoplans were sold to a place called Nimco and I wonder if anyone has seen any in the New York Metropolitan area?These Neoplans were built in 1983 and were numbered from 3500-3864.The 1986 models were numbered 3900-3959.These are vanishing fast and I wonder if any ever get resold.Pat is so short of buses they are using five former Dallas Neoplans in service.There is also a bus from here from Houston numbered 902.It is a Neoplan suburban.There is also a former RIPTA artic being used here also.If anyone knows of any old Pat buses running please let me know.Thanks Louis R.
I did not know that PAT sends ther buses to the same place as MTA do with ther old buses. Could have been sold to Green Lines.
Neoplan AN440#3500
>>>There is also a bus from here from Houston numbered 902.<<<
A Neoplan suburban? We never had any numbered 902. PAT probably renumbered it though. How is it? Is it articulated or what?
As for Nimco, it's the bus grave yard. Buses go in, and they don't come out, unless they're going to Queens. :-)
You right on this one on Nimco. Also they do come out of Nimco to HP in the City. I think there used to be about 5 Buses from Nimco in HP about a few years ago. BUT I forgot the #'s of those buses.
Queens and YUK in SI get buses that is in storage.
S79 GM RTS#2660
The DART Neoplans running in Pittsburgh are 135,1335,5109,and 5111.There is one more but I haven't seen the number on it.It has charcoal black seats that still say DART on it.These are buses built around 1985 also and the yellow paint is starting to come through.
A few ex-DART (Dallas) Neoplans are still in service on Coach USA's shuttle service at Philadelphia International Airport. However, a few Nova LFS buses have also been put into service.
It is a Neoplan suburban built aroun 1985.It has green seats that do recline.It has a sticker in the front behind the driver that says the usual no eating,drinking,etc..It says violation is a city ordiance of Houston.This is the only sticker visable if your aboard it.I believe it has round headlights like an MC9 bus.
Is it a large bus or a regular bus? Because I think I know what you're talking about now. We had 15 of these old Neoplan Suburban buses that used to do park & ride service. Their route signs were always broken and they usually used cardboard box tops to display the route. They didn't have green seats though. They had the these multi-colored seats that you could recline with a lever with a ball at the end. They also had this little cargo net under the seats for small luggage items. I don't know if all of this is still there because they could have changed out the seats.
It has a terrible headsign and they still have the cargo net on each seat.The seats are very comfortable though.It is a full size 40ft.bus.
NIMCO = Naparano Iron & Metal Co., Newark, NJ. They're a metals recycling company, specializing in scrapping buses & rail equipment.
I hope they're not still scrapping buses while they're short! We all know NYC Subway is prone to doing that. Do you have any photos? I'd especially love to see the ex-RIPTA Neoplan artic; I wondered whatever became of those :).
NIMCO Bus Sales Division has been selling the PAT Neioplans for quite some time. The first batch went to NIMCO in the mid 90s, and some ended up in China. The old Bus World magazine had a shot of one over there.
While NIMCO is a scrap-metal/recycler, they found that they had plenty of good buses coming through theoir gates, and set up the Bus Sales division to keep perfectly good used equipment on the road - it was much more profitable to rebuild and resell a used bus them to strip it down and sell the metal. NIMCO also had a rebuilding contract with NJT back in the 80s. They rehabbed many of the original Public Service GMC New Looks.
April 2,2001
No longer stopping on Avenue J and East 13 Street
-eastbound and Westbound
April 1 ,2001
will change at the western end due to completion of Route 9 A construction
The final westbound stop has been placed on the west side of Southbound Route 9 A between 23 and 22 street.
ifo Chelsea Piers
April 2,2001
6 Av between West 56 and Central Park South will be reconstucted..This is about 5 months in duration
The X51 will operate via 6 Av,West 56 EB,Madison Av NB ,East 57 Eastbound and regular
The Eastbound X51 bus stop at 57/far side of 5 av being moved to east 56 ,far side of 5 Av
X1 X6 X7 X9 M5 M6 M7 will have delays due to reconstuction
What about the DOT express routes(i:e qm15 etc and soforth ) and the M5,6 & 7
The QS routes were running eastbound on 56th on Monday. Didn't see where they were cutting up to 57th, probably Madison.
CG
I know I know this may sound like old news but when I had nothing to do I surfed the inter net and I went on www.freightliner.com and I found orion buses web page does anybody know about it?
Hmm...Orion merging with Freightliner, who also owns Thomas Built Buses and is a subsidary of DaimlerChrysler. So techincally, the SLF 200 and Orion VI can be classified as either Benzes or Mopars!
-F.
Benzes; the company headquarters is in Stuttgart.
Orion came along as part of the deal when Freightliner, a DaimlerChrysler division, bought Western Star, the Canadian truck manufacturer that owned Orion.
ironically, the deal for DC to buy the reminaing 80% of Detroit Diesel came at the same time. This effectively makes Orion into a "GMC" all over again - same company makes the buses and the diesel engines in them.
It will be interesting to see what happens with this.
-F.
This happened some time ago when Freightliner purchased WesternStar, Orion's parent company. So now Freightliner has three Class-8 truck companies under its awning: Freightliner brand trucks; Sterling brand trucks (which are, ironically, rebadged versions of the late, lamented Ford Aeromax); and now Western Star.
Incidentally, attendant to the DC merger (which I disapproved of), Dodge's aging B-series van (the current iteration dates back to 1973) is being replaced by a Freightliner-badged version of Mercedes' European Sprinter van. (http://www.sprintersavvy.com)This ought to shake up the American van market a bit -- 5-cylinder diesel, bigger and taller body configurations, dual wheels, &c. Hopefully Ford will bring its European Transit van to sell alongside the Econoline to compete.
C
I was also appalled at the DC merger; hopefully they won't kill Chrysler's product line. What a shame about the B-series; wow, I didn't know it was even still made!
-F.
35 cents?! Are they crazy! I can't believe it! They are failing as a decent transit company. And to think they were my model company, HA! They have a complex fare system, no transfer betwixt Regional Rail and Transit except for a few train to bus routes, and just other junk! Argh!!!!!!!! It frustrates me so much!!!!! That's why I like the WMATA much better. :P
Oh, it gets better...
SEPTA had commissioned a fare policy/fare collection study. However, instead of implementing the recommendations of this study, SEPTA has chosen to implement a fare increase?
From today's Philadelphia Inquirer:
http://inq.philly.com/content/inquirer/2001/04/05/front_page/PSEPTA05.htm
[The first SEPTA study - done by NuStats International Portfolio Associates and completed in January - focused on fare policy. It recommended dropping fares to attract more riders.
A companion study - assigned to Parsons Brinkerhoff - proposed a $132 million, one-card fare to streamline a system that uses a confusing mix of dozens of tickets, transfers, and other fare devices.
Now, neither proposal will happen as SEPTA races to close - by early summer - a budget gap that had hit $1.8 million by February and was only expected to grow, according to board chairman Pasquale "Pat" Deon.
"It is just not in our cards to do," he said yesterday of the consultants' recommendations. "We have a budget problem now which requires an increase in fare."]
This is the exact kind of thinking that got SEPTA into this mess in the first place. Then again, Chairman Deon isn't exactly the best person for the job. Just two weeks ago, instead of implementing a service abandonment for Route 301 and absorbing Route 302 into the current Route 24 - the 301 and 302 operate in his native Bucks County - he cowered under pressure after six speakers gave vocal opposition. (These people probably represent most of the ridership on the 301, which has average of 15 riders per DAY!)
SEPTA should change it's slogan from "Serious About Change" to something more appropriate, such as "We Were Only Kidding About Changing."
For all of it's faults, at least WMATA Metrobus has made some positive improvements, including the new regional bus fare structure, adopted by 9 other transit systems in the DC region.
I can't believe that he still kept the 301, that's extremely FOOLISH. Also, I heard that SEPTA can't even afford to continue the study. It's dumb, I mean fare decrease and a simpler system would've really boosted ridership, but of course, SEPTA didn't look into the future. Here were the slogans that they had used before.
"Better Than Driving" Maybe, but the fares and junk don't help.
"At your Service" If you were, then your service es muy MALO.
"Serious About Change" yeah, changing for the worst.
What terrible faults (other than getting rid of the New Looks and having bought those AM Generals before) has Metrobus had? Also, Metrorail is amazing.
I was referring to the old Metrobus fare structure prior to 1999. Also, the route numbering system can be very confusing to an outsider, but I guess once you've riden Metrobus enough times, you get the hang of it. The point is that Metrobus has slowly positioned itself over the past 3-4 years to become a far superior bus system than SEPTA.
I have never had any fault with Metrorail, BTW.
I see. Is there really any specific way of naming a route, like are all the Z buses called Z whatever for a specific reason?
I think WMATA inherited the route numbering system from the different companies (ie. DC Transit, WMA Tranist, AB&W, etc.). I don't know how these letters and numbers came into play. All I know is that a number/letter pairings are generally found in Virginia, a letter/number pairing is generally a Maryland route (with a few in DC), and numbers only are generally DC routes.
At least I think that's how it works out, though there are a few exceptions.
Yeah, that's pretty much right. Some DC routes do have the letter first, then the number, but most are all numbers. MD has a few routes in numbers only, mainly the 81-89, then of course they had to add the 89M and Virginia had to switch up by adding the S80 and 81 in Springfield. THey did inherit this crazy numbering from the old companies. I wish there was a way to number them similar to NYCT has Manhattan-M routes, Brooklyn-B routes,etc. Even with buses that go from VA to DC or DC to MD, you could still have it designated with a V or D depending on the main portion of the route and have all the Maryland routes begin with M. There had been talk of naming the DC buses by the streets. For example, the 16th Street line would be the 16, the 11th St. routes would be the 11, etc.
you forgot one, "We're getting there...but not on time."
the old .symbol
Oh, I don't think I heard that one before. When was that the slogan?
Probably around the mid-1980's. The subway-surface cars still have that slogan placards in them. A few older Neos had similar car cards with "We're Getting There" as well.
There are actually quite a few Neos with the old livery that still have "At Your Service" on the front cover.
Yeah, I see them quite a few times. Remember that very short time when the Neos and I think the NABIs did this too when they advertised on the front cover? Of course, that ended rather quickly, but it was interesting while it lasted. I've even seen Neos in the old liveries (this is plural because some had the gray stripe acroos the windows or were left white by the windows) that had a cover that tried to integrate the new scheme into the old one. Didn't really work out that well, since the red part had to be blue so it could blend into the red. Now they even have some where they didn't even try, lol.
You just realized this now???
WMATA is ALOT better, w/o question.
And now I've realized it. I always loved Metro, but when I was little I used to think of their buses as lower class vehicles and SEPTA buses as upper class vehicles. I used to love SEPTA because I liked their vehicles, but that's as far as it goes...
I founded this little gem: http://www.nycsubway.org/bus/busroutes.html
On the bottom is a list of old and new routes. I have questions:
What was the M105?
Was there really an M58? It's listed under CURRENT ROUTE and seems to be like the M31 (which is an old number, and it used to go only to Lexington).
When were the busses given an M prefixed and renumbered to prevent conflicts between former companies?
What was the old M12 (shown as 86th-York, not Spring-Delancey which it was more recently)?
I founded this little gem: http://www.nycsubway.org/bus/busroutes.html
Yeah, it's an interesting read.
What was the M105?
Looks like it ran on 10th Avenue. It was probably merged into the M11 when the avenues became one-way. (That's just my guess.) I remember the old M103 (59th Street crosstown, then up West End to 72nd) and M106 (42nd Street crosstown) but the M105 was dead before I was born.
Was there really an M58? It's listed under CURRENT ROUTE and seems to be like the M31 (which is an old number, and it used to go only to Lexington).
The M58 is pretty recent. The 57th Street crosstown used to be the M28. One day about 15 years ago, the routes around there were all changed. The M103 was cancelled and the new M57 took over its West End run. The M30 was cut back to 57th and 8th (it used to continue up Broadway to 72nd and back east to CPW), as the brand new M72 was more useful as a 72nd Street crosstown. The M58 ran down York from 72nd to 57th and then across 57th to 8th. The M31 was untouched; it continued to make its wide loop, terminating near Bloomingdale's. I had a brochure describing all of these changes but I'm afraid it was thrown out a long time ago. (I'm not sure about this, but I think the M29 became the M66 the same day.)
A few years later, I guess someone noticed that the M58 and M31 had a long overlap, and they were merged into the M31.
When were the busses given an M prefixed and renumbered to prevent conflicts between former companies?
I have no idea. Before I was born (1974), that's for sure.
What was the old M12 (shown as 86th-York, not Spring-Delancey which it was more recently)?
Probably today's M86, previously M18.
First I apologize for the poor inflection in some of my words in my first post.
The M58 is pretty recent. The 57th Street crosstown used to be the M28. One day about 15 years ago, the routes around there were all changed. The M103 was cancelled and the new M57 took over its West End run. The M30 was cut back to 57th and 8th (it used to continue up Broadway to 72nd and back east to CPW), as the brand new M72 was more useful as a 72nd Street crosstown. The M58 ran down York from 72nd to 57th and then across 57th to 8th. The M31 was untouched; it continued to make its wide loop, terminating near Bloomingdale's. I had a brochure describing all of these changes but I'm afraid it was thrown out a long time ago. (I'm not sure about this, but I think the M29 became the M66 the same day.)
That answers another question I asked: When were the busses renumbered to match the streets. I also posted a list of renumbered crosstown routes for others' reference:
M13=M8
M26=M23
M16=M34
M106=M42
M27=M50
M28=M57
M29=M66
M30=M72
M17=M79
M18=M86
M19=M96
M19=M106
M20=M116
Now the M16, M27 and M30 are still there thanks to them being branches. And the M13, M19 and M20 were renumbered later. The M19 had both a East 96th and 106th branch that now have separate numbers.
The list shows even OLDER numbers for some of these routes. Like 20 for 57th Street, M3 for 50th, M4 for 79th, M5 for 86th, M6 for 96th and 106th, M7 for 66th, M16 for 8th, M17 for 14th, M18 for 23rd, M19 for 34th and M102 for 125th (current Bx15).
Except for the last one, for what was the earlier renumbering done?
Looking at a late 50's Fifth Avenue Coach Lines map, it lists the following lines that were run by the NYCTA:
M1-Madison/Chambers Sts.
M3-49/50 Sts
M7-65/66 Sts
M11-York Av/57 St
M13-1st Av
M15-2nd Av
Fifth Av Coach Lines operated two divisions which were the FACO and the NYCO divisions in the borough of Manhattan. It doesn't list the meanings to the NYCO and FACO abbreviations. The same route numbers were used in both divisions on separate routes. For example:
6(FACO)-current M6 route
6(NYCO)-current M30 route
15(NYCO)-23 St Crosstown
15(FACO)-current Q32 route
The 20(FACO) was the 57th Street crosstown route operated by 5th Av Coach.
5 & 19 FACO operated along the current M5 route except the 5 operated via Broadway and the 19 operated via Riverside Drive between 135 St and 157 St.
The M5 used to run on 57th Street instead of Central Park South. IIRC, this was changed the same day as the other 57th Street changes, which I outlined in my earlier post.
The M7 has always (i.e., as long as I can remember) used Central Park South westbound (northbound), to Broadway, as it does today. Until the late 80's or early 90's, the southbound M7 continued down Columbus past 64th, turned left on 58th, and either ran across 58th to 7th or turned left at 8th, right at Columbus Circle, right at CPS, right at 7th (yes, that means the southbound route ran north for about half a block) -- I think it flipped back and forth between these a few times before being ultimately routed down Broadway to CC instead.
I know about the separate FACO and NYCO (Omnibus Corporation, I also have an old article that heypaul sent me), I want to know when they were merged to eliminate separate numbers. In 1956 New York City Omnibus became Fifth Avenue Coach Lines. What happened to Fifth Avenue Coach Company?
Eventually, 5 Av Coach became what is now known as MaBSTOA (Manhattan and Bronx Surface Operating Authority). IIRC, the city effectively took over 5 Av Coach after a strike in the late 1950s or early 1960s. Of course, MaBSTOA was incorporated (to an extent) into the TA.
NO. That's what happened to New York City Omnibus (Fifth Avenue Coach Lines), not Fifth Avenue Coach Company. I asked when those two stopped being treated as separate entities.
The M-106 was redesignated the M-42 and the M-16 12th Avenue branch was redesignated the M-34 as of April 1986 when Javits Center was opened. The elimination of duplicate route numbers took effect as of July 1974 but i recall signs with the new numbers on buses before the official change. The routes changed were as follows:
M-1 Madison/Chambers became the M-22
M-3 49th/50th Streets became the M-27
M-6 72nd Street Crosstown became the M-30
M-7 65th Street Crosstown became the M-29
M-11 York Avenue became the M-31
M-15 5th Avenue/Jackson Heights became the M-32
M-15 23rd Street Crosstown became the M-26
M-20 57th Street Crosstown became the M-28
M-101A 3RD/Lex/Lenox became the M-102
TB Triboro Brige became 3 routes M-35 Manhattan to Astoria,M-34 Manhattan to Wards Island,Bx21 Bronx to Astoria.
I also recall seeing different route numbers on the old NYMCO Map but have no idea when those routes were changed but i recall some of those lines were paper routes only M-102 125 th Street Crosstown for one.
Hope this helps
Thank You
The elimination of duplicate route numbers took effect as of July 1974
Heh. I said it was before I was born; I didn't realize it was a month before I was born.
That answers another question I asked: When were the busses renumbered to match the streets.
They weren't all renumbered at once. The M34 and M42 were, I think, the first to be changed. I rode the 79th Street crosstown to high school and junior high school, and for the first few years it was the M17 -- the change to the M79 (with a realignment of its west end -- it used to run from 79th to Broadway to 81st to West End to 79th back east; now it runs straight though the HHP circle and back out the other side) was probably around 1987 or 1988. The M86 came a few years later, along with (IIRC) the M96. (The 106th Street branch remained the M19 for a while longer.) I'm not sure when exactly the process ended -- in the early 90's -- but I think the M106 and M8 were among the final changes. Keep in mind that both of those numbers had been used for entirely different routes not too long before. Probably the route number that was recycled the soonest was the M18, whose new route intersected its old route (they actually overlapped for two blocks on Madison and one block on 5th) before it was cut back to Central Park North. (The M3 used to have two branches; then one was eliminated; a few years later it was revived as the M18.)
I also posted a list of renumbered crosstown routes for others' reference:
It's not entirely accurate. Today's M72 didn't exist in any form as anything but the M72. The M30 -- there was only one branch -- ran as it does today, but continued up Broadway to 72nd Street and then east on 72nd, terminating at CPW. That was the closest thing there was to a 72nd Street crosstown. The M72 was a new creation. And the north-south section of today's M57 was lifted straight from the old M103.
It's not entirely accurate. Today's M72 didn't exist in any form as anything but the M72. The M30 -- there was only one branch -- ran as it does today, but continued up Broadway to 72nd Street and then east on 72nd, terminating at CPW. That was the closest thing there was to a 72nd Street crosstown. The M72 was a new creation. And the north-south section of today's M57 was lifted straight from the old M103.
I had already posted a much more detailed list that took account of that, but it was lost with the crash.
I have the map with the final route changes. It has M13 to M8, M20 to M106, and M19 to M96.
The M20 became the M116, not the M106.
And it's not the final one, since the (post-M96) M19 became the M106 a few years later.
What's the year, incidentally? I don't have any of my old maps anymore.
The year that the M19 became the M106 was 1996. I have maps from 1994, 1995 and 1996. 1996 is the first one with the new number.
While waiting yesterday evening for the M104 at 42nd and 6th, I perused the posted bus maps.
The one for the M42 dates from 1987. At the time the M42 had only one branch; it ran across 42nd to 12th Avenue and then backtracked to Javits. The Q32 was still the M32 and there was no M98. The Q ran on Broadway, the K ran on 8th, and there was no 9 train. The MTA logo was an M in a circle with SURFACE under the M.
The one for the M104 dates from 1992. The 57th Street triad -- M30, M57, M58 -- was in effect. The Q32 and M98 appeared. The crosstown buses from 79th Street up were the M79, M86, M19, and M20. The MTA logo was an M in a circle with no text underneath.
This is an interesting way to research bus route history. Unfortunately the guide-a-ride program was only started in the early 80's, and I assume all the oldest maps were replaced when the plastic holders were replaced with metal holders.
You can bet I'm going to be there on Monday, which corner is this?
Northwest, at the stop for the WB M42 and M104.
My impression is that old guide-a-rides are quite common.
[and there was no M98. ]
What was the reason it was created?
Arti
Why was it numbered the M98 anyway?
The M98 was created as an "express", in an effort to attract commuters to the GW Bridge Bus Station from Bergen and Hudson counties in NJ, who otherwise would have commuted to midtown to get to the East Side.
If to think of it it is actually an express.
Thanks for the explanation, I always thought that it was some kind of a relict. BTW why does it terminate in Fort Tyron Park, rather than GWBBT?
Arti
Since the M98 is technically an express of the M4, I can only assume it is sent to Fort Tryon along with the M4 as a convenience measure.
Interestingly, when the M98 was introduced, it was cross-promoted by NJ Transit in a marketing campaign to get people to take NJT and Rockland Coaches (Red & Tan) to the GWBBS to save time over the increasing congestion at the XBL/Lincoln Tunnel. The ads in the Bergen Record touted the various NJT and Rockland routes, and said to connect to the A train for the west side and the "new M98 express" bus to the east side.
[A train for the west side and the "new M98 express" bus to the east side. ]
So M98 is half price express for political reasons.
Arti
Now that we have the answer to the M98, when was the M60 created, and when did the M35 stop going to Astoria.
The M35 stooped going to Astoria the day the M60 started operation.
When was this? And where was the original M60 terminal, before it was extended to 106/Broadway?
The original M60 terminal was 116th Street and Broadway.
The original M-60 terminal was W.125th Street and Powell Blvd and was extended twice. First to 116th St/Broadway and later to its current termial.
The original conception of the M-60 was from 125th Street/Park Ave(MNRR Station) to La Guardia Airport. It was to be called the Q-49 and was to be a TA route assigned to 126th Street or Stengel Depot.
Thank You
The first extension makes sense: it connects the line to Columbia and to another subway line.
But why the second extension? Every time I've ridden it to or from the end, I've been the only passenger south of 110th and possibly 116th. If it was to make turning easier -- via the triangle -- well, the triangle isn't used anymore and the buses make simple u-turns now.
And when did it start making limited stops on Broadway? It was after the latest bus stop signs were posted.
[Every time I've ridden it to or from the end, it seemed like I've been the only passenger south of 110th and possible 116th. If it was to make turning easier -- via the triangle -- well, the triangle isn't used anymore and the buses make simple u-turns now.]
Actually, there were two reasons for the extension to Broadway & 106th:
1. The NIMBYs on Claremont Avenue. They objected to buses (then every 30 minutes), but didn't mind constant trucks.
2. The American Youth Hostel at Amsterdam & 104th. The backpackers who stay there have been an important factor in its recent ridership growth.
BTW, I used to live on 106th, near the terminal, and often used the M60 to reach Queens.
And yes, the M60 is supposed to loop around Strauss Park ("the triangle"). The official routing is via Broadway, into West End Avenue, left 106th, to last stop and layover on 106th at the near side of Broadway. (The M116 was even moved to the far side to accommodate the M60.) Any driver who drops off on Broadway at 106th is off-route.
---
[And when did it start making limited stops on Broadway?]
When it started running to 106th. It's supposed to stop only at 120th/119th, 116th, 110th, and 106th. (In fact, it makes local stops ONLY along 125th Street and in the airport.) Any M60 signs at intermediate stops on Broadway were installed in error.
Ah, yes, the youth hostel. But why not extend the M60 even further south? It could turn around easily at, say, 72nd Street and serve the heart of the Upper West Side.
I think the loop has been officially changed. The buses now drop off their last passengers on Broadway between 107th and 106th. After the layover, they u-turn and pick up passengers across Broadway. Every M60 does this now, and IINM the signs reflect this change. If it wasn't official, then every single driver is driving some route other than the M60. (Incidentally, when is a driver authorized to operate off-route? Long before the current construction started -- about ten years ago -- I was on a northbound M104 that, instead of driving into a traffic jam (!) on the now-closed bit of Broadway between 72nd and 73rd, bypassed it (and the bus stop, where another bus was picking up passengers at the time) via Amsterdam and 73rd. It probably wasn't permitted but the passengers all appreciated it!)
Simple reason why the M-60 does not go to 72nd St/Broadway.
Too much of a duplication with the M-104 bus route and the #1/9-Subway line.
Thank You
Well, I don't think it could hurt to have two bus lines along the busiest street in the most densely populated neighborhood in the country.
I had proposed a long time ago, after I first rode the M60 and was disgusted by the (a) terribly slow ride and (b) plethora of rear-door boarders in Queens (who proceeded to complain that my luggage was in their way -- well, duh, it's a bus from the airport, and at least I paid my fare), that the M60 be restricted to airport riders, at least during rush hours: on trips from the airport, no one would be allowed on outside the airport; on trips to the airport, no one would be allowed off outside the airport. If the M60 is extended south, it might pay to remove such a (proposed) restriction along Broadway, where the M60 would function as the M104 Limited (which should have been instituted decades ago).
Oh, and perhaps most importantly, given the density of the Upper West Side, why not give its residents a one-seat ride to the airport?
[I think the loop has been officially changed. The buses now drop off their passengers on Broadway etween 107th and 106th. After the layover, they u-turn and pick up passengers across Broadway.]
Yes, some or most M60 drivers do that, and they are off-route. The sidewalks on the Broadway side of Strauss Park (from 107th to 106th) are cobblestones for the first four feet or so from the curb; cobblestones are not an ADA-compliant surface - wheelchairs can't navigate over them - so a bus stop there would be illegal. Since that park was renovated only a few years ago (I was active in the local Block Association at the time, and involved in the process), it's not likely to be redone for a long while, so the cobblestones are staying put.
I was back up there on Sunday, April 8th. The stop on 106th, near side of Broadway, is still signed for M60 to the Upper West Side, and the M116 still picks up on 106th at the far side of Broadway. (Again, it was moved out of the near side stop to make room for M60 layovers.
BTW, the only NYCT routes SCHEDULED to make U-turns on Broadway are the Bx19 at 147th Street (when Riverbank State Park is closed) and the Bx9 at 262nd Street. (Before anyone starts screaming: No, the M104 short-turns at 106th are NOT scheduled.)
Interesting. Why don't drivers like to go around Strauss Park? And, while I'm asking, why don't drivers keep to the schedule? I was standing at the first stop at a scheduled arrival time, according to the posted schedule. There was a driver in the first bus across Broadway, but he didn't make his u-turn until close to ten minutes later. Now, he can't claim it was due to traffic congestion, just like southbound M104 drivers can't excuse their major bunching around Columbia due to congestion (although they try).
Of course, the M57 (and, prior to that, the M103) until recently u-turned on Broadway at 73rd. That was changed when the northbound side of Broadway there was closed.
When the M-60 was created the M-35 was cut back to Astoria rush hours only. It ceased going to Queens in the 1995 Fall cutbacks.
BTW when the Q-49 was originally proposed the TA attempted to discontinue M-35 service to Astoria but backed off due to complaints.
For information on the Q-49 please see my earlier post.
Thank You
After I asked these questions, I ended up being able to answer them with old maps from the mid-90s.
Now a new topic: Does anybody have any old bus maps they want to sell or send? Or know of any current eBay auctions I can bid on?
I foolishly threw out most of my old bus and subway maps. If I had kept them I would have had a nearly complete collection from the past 20+ years.
This is currently a difficult task since most of my belongings are in boxes, but I'll try to see what I have from recent years. If I have any duplicates that you're looking for, they're yours.
I would mind replenishing my supply of old maps either. Pork got in his request before me, so he gets priority, but if anyone has any bus or subway maps -- especially from the past 25 years but I'll take anything -- that they'd like to give away or sell for a few dollars, I'll gladly take them off your hands. (I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a few service change pamphlets and the like, either.)
In case anyone's interested, there's an old subway map hanging on the wall of one of the elevators -- the second from the left -- at 168th Street between the 1/9 and the A/C. I didn't catch the exact date since the elevator was crowded but it promotes MetroCard heavily and it predates the B-C terminal swap (even though it's posted at an affected station).
[Since the M98 is technically an express of the M4....]
Not quite. It was actually implemented as a branch of the M101, which is why it originally ran out of 100th Street Depot and uses 3rd/Lex instead of 5th/Madison. In fact, it was accompanied by a slight reduction in the number of M101 short trips from 125th Street. Otherwise, Transit would have needed to petition the Board of Estimate for a totally new route franchise. (BTW, that's how all the Queens A-suffix routes got started - the various companies just piggy-backed on existing franchises.)
With the Board of Estimate gone, how are franchises awarded now?
The M-98 was run out of 100th Street Depot only because Manhattanville Depot was in the process of being built or rebuilt from the old 132nd Street Depot. It was never a branch of the M-101 and no trips were eliminated for it.
The franchise was not a problem since it did not conflict with any other service.
Thank You
While we're at it, why is it the M98, and not say, the M99? It could have been the M103.
AND Depot History. Anybody know where I can find any on the web?
The M103 either was still around or had been just recently eliminated when the M98 was born.
(That doesn't answer your general question -- I don't know where the TA comes up with most of its route numbers.)
What was the shortest time between the elimination (or renumbering) of one route and the birth of a new route with the same number? Only a few years passed between the change of the M18 to the M86 and the reinstution of an old branch of the M3 as the M18. What else?
Why did the M3 Convent become the M18 anyway? It could have become the M33, which was never used. It wasn't until 1995 that the M18 was cut back to 110th/5th on the south end and 168th on the north end, and it was even more recently that it was rerouted to use CPN, Lenox, 116, Manhattan, St. Nicholas, 125th and Morningside/Convent vs. going from CPN/110th to Manhattan right to Morningside/Convent.
And the only other recycled routes that I know of are the M8, M20, M103 and M106.
You might also say M102.
[What was the M105?]
The M105 ran from 72nd & Broadway via West End Avenue and 11th Avenue to 42nd Street, then west to 12th Avenue. The northern half is covered by today's M57.
-----
[Was there really an M58?]
Yup. It was created in September 1989, to partially replace the former M103 on 59th Street. But first a little background...
The original route restructuring proposal sought to conslidate two redundant crosstown corridors, 57th Street (M28) and 59th Street (M103), into a single high-freqency corridor on 57th Street, AND accommodate large numbers of transfer movements from the M31 to both crosstowns. This would be accomplished by combining the M28, M31, and M103 into two overlapping L-shaped routes which would provide one-seat rides from the Upper East and Upper West Sides to the 57th Street corridor and frequent service along said corridor.
However, TWU-100 claimed that MaBSTOA work was being "given away" to TA, and went to arbitration. The first arbitrator ruled for TWU, so the Upper East Side component was implemented as the M58. Several arbtrations later, Transit won - the final arbitrator ruled that (1) Transit existed first and foremost to serve the riding public, not the unions, and (2) TWU had no business advocating AGAINST its TA members in order to support its OA members.
That ruling set the stage not only for the M31/M58 merger, but also for later TA-OA route swaps.
Wow, thanks for all the inside information on the M58. (I'm still trying to figure out the point of the M30, though.)
When was the M105 terminated? It looks like an interesting route. What was the M103's west terminus when the M105 ran?
From what I heard a while back is that the M105 was strictly streetcar and never became a bus route( think I saw it posted long ago on Subtalk).
[From what I heard a while back is that the M105 was strictly streetcar and never became a bus....]
The Third Avenue Railway System streetcar routes were designated with letters, while Surface Transportation's bus route replacements were designated with numbers; in Manhattan, those numbers were in the M100-series to avoid confusion with other companies' routes. Thus, "M105" should suggest a bus.
Since the MTA decided to renumber the MCIs from 2800s to 2100s, Why didn't they renumber the 2700s first - to continue along the numbering scheme for previous orders? The only conflict I see is that now with RTS 2270 back in service, the numbers might overlap. Also, why start with 1860 or any # that begins with XXX0? It throws the numbers off. 1860 Should have been 1861.
They come up with some weird numbering. Same with OrionVs - 6000-6349. Should have been 6001-6350. Then the OrionVIs would be 6351-6360 and the new OrionVII HEVs would commence at 6361.
For the new OrionVII CNGs that will be coming in, they should start to re-use the 1200s. Start with 1201 and work their way up.
The new Nova HEVs should be numbered 9701 and up (since all the numbers from 8000-9600s are RTSs.
I disagree. I hate number systems that aren't zero rooted. It's easier to pinpoint number blocks with 2100-2149 than 2101-2150. It's even worse in cases like this; 2101-2200. The buses start overlapping into a new series that can be better reserved for another fleet of buses.
Maybe, but non-zero numbers would be technically correct, after all, the first Broad Street Subway order would look ridiculus if the fleet was 0-149 instead of 1-150 (more on this in subtalk).
Are you kidding?! I commend MTA for sticking to a zero-rooted numbering scheme in recent years. It makes SO much more sense. Unless the first two digits are specifically relevant to the type of bus they identify (year made, capacity, division, etc) then there is NO reason to start numbering bus orders at xx01. All that does is defeat the purpose of series numbering. For instance, SEPTA's NABI's are 5001-5400, leaving the next bus as unit 5401. So even though #5400 and #5401 are in the same series and share the same two first digits, they are two different types of buses. It would just make so much more sense to have numbered the NABI's in one block, 5000-5399, then, the ENTIRE 5400 series could be left to the New Flyers. I love 'series buses.' I have so much respect for series-leading buses like #6000 and #1000 and #4900. All of the rest of the buses answer to the series leaders.
It seems like most bigger transit systems either already do or are switching to zero-rooted numbering. Good. SEPTA is one of the only large systems that does not,
>>SEPTA is one of the only large systems that does not,<<
SEPTA's CTD K-cars are numbered 9000-9111 instead of 9001-9112, and The STD K-cars are numbered 100-128 insted of 101-129. I prefer non-zero-rooted numbers better. BTW, the last SEPTA 40' RTS was numbered 8284, the first Neoplan AN440 was numbered 8285, so SEPTA prefers to contunue with the next number.
This is the same problem as the millenium thing. Does the millenium begin in 2000 or 2001?
Everyone has different views.
But one reason to number starting with XXX1 is that it is easier to count the busses. I know that 8300-8399 is 100 busses, but so is 8301-8400. And look at this. How many learned in school to start counting with 0? You start with 1. If you have 0 busses, then there is nothing. But if have 1, then there is one bus.
I've seen pictures before with fishbowls starting at #1, not 0. Wouldn't it be weird if you boarded bus #0?
The Orions (93-96/97) started with 101. The first RTSs were 1201,2201.
I see both views and understand both.
However, concerning this - why number MCIs 2705-2804. Why not 2700-2799 or 2701-2800? That numbering is worse than either method.
"why number MCIs 2705-2804. Why not 2700-2799 or 2701-2800? That numbering is worse than either method."
They started at 2705 because 2704 is the highest 2xxx for a 1982 RTS, and they don't want to overlap a model which still has some buses left for it, and there were/are when the delivery began. My only complaint is that they should have kept going on 2805-2874 for the 2001 models because now the 27xx are considered new, it doesn't make sense that 21xx are newer.
For that matter, it makes no sense whatsoever that the 8000-9000 NYCT RTSs are newer than the 4800s, but older than the 4900s!
Well, when there is a numbering gap the TA hasn't fulfilled ie 4900 up because they had to skip them when they got up to them for another model that had them, they always try to find the hole to fill them.
You all know about Coach USA right? The super-huge bus sompany built upon very small bus companies coming together as one to form a huge conglomerate? Well, I'm sure they have loads of interesting equipment but I've never seen a complete roster. It'd be nice if there was one out there. If there is, just post the address. The headquarters is here in Houston last I checked. I should go by there and see if they have more than charter buses in the facility.
You may want to try the vinmen mailing list at Yahoo Groups:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vinmen
A while ago, one of the regular posters there had the entire CUSA roster broken down into the individual companies. They have an archive of all messages sent to the group, so that would be a great place to start.
There's also a Yahoo Group known as "coachusa" that has the lists for the western regions. However, the list is a couple years old, and out here I've seen a LOT of equipment switching-around at Coach USA companies.
I haven't been to Hempstead in a while to check activity at the terminal, but out on the routes I have not seen a L.I. Bus Gillig in a long while. Are they in use? Thanks.
Apparently not. Once the new Orion V CNG buses arrived, the Gilligs were taken out of service. Not that I'll miss the LIB Gilligs...
Gilligs are still in Mitchell Field Yard still but o/s. I saw a few on Saturday when I was leaving Nassau Coliseum from the NYPD-NYFD Hockey Game. Didn't get any numbers though.
N22#179Gary
has anyone got any idea what happened to these last 30 mci buses. yukon has2140-2164 and ulmer park 2165-2179. where are thes buses.
Yesterday. I saw something on a book made by the MTA and the DOB and this was from 1999. It was on Ebay.com for $4.00. BUT it ended last night at $6.50. And who won that? It's me that won that. In the clover it was a Orion5 #6000. And it was NO ADS on #6000. Just VERY shiney and looks new.
M7 Orion5 #6000
You could have had it for free if you asked. I have some from 1998-2000. I only have one each 1995-1997, and those are mine :-)
If anyone wants a copy, (1999 and 2000) email me your snail mail address and I'll send you one of each, along with the new Guide to Customer Service and an "all bus" Wheelchair securement guide.
Did not know that. I could not find it anywhere. But where could I find it?
Q46 Orion5 #620
I don't know. I suppose you could call customer service. We receive shipments of them at the depot. They are issued free of charge. Since these are readily available, and free from the NYCTA print shop, I believe it's illegal to sell them. Can you cancel your purchase? If so, let me know and I'll send you both copies. Free.
Maybe. I did not get the E-Mail from the seller yet. Maybe it is going to be put back up. Who Knows?
Q74 Orion5 #135
Is they going to be any 2001 DOB Insiders Guide?
Bx19 Orion5 #6001
Anyone who wants information about the Insiders Guide should call 1-888-NYCT-BUS. That's the number for NYCT's Bus Customer Relations Center, the office that's responsible for the Guide.
David
it usually comes out towards the end of the year. for goodness sake dont pay for it. i would be glad to send one to you when it is available.
If you haven't seen it lately, it's now a "Mobile Employee Chemical Class". On-board computers and completely retrofitted as a classroom, this bus travels from depot to depot within the system to inform employees as to chemical safety and hazzards.
Would make a nice addition to your photo collection.
It's come a long way since it's beginning days at Amsterdam. Did PA3133 get repowered with a DD 6V-92TA engine???
Wayne
NJT has added two brand new routes that will serve Six Flags Great Adventure and the Six Flags Outlet Mall in Jackson Twp. I didn't even know there was such a place as the Six Flags Outlet Mall, so this must be a brand new mall that just opened.
The 307 will operate from Freehold Centre Bus Terminal via CR 537 to Six Flags Outlet Mall and on to Six Flags Great Adventure. The fare for this service from Freehold is $1.55 to the Outlet Mall and $1.90 to Great Adventure. Service will operate daily from Freehold, departing at 8:45am, 9:45am, 11:15am, 12:48pm, 2:18pm, 3:45pm, 5:15pm, and 6:45pm; weekday return trips depart Great Adventure at 10:29am, 11:59am, then every 90 minutes until 7:29pm, 8:29pm, 9:34pm, and 10:35pm. Saturday return trips depart Great Adventure at 10:44am, 12:12pm, 1:44pm, 3:12pm, 4:44pm, 5:55pm, 7:25pm, 8:25pm, 9:32pm, 10:32pm, and 11:38pm. Sunday return trips depart Great Adventure at 10:44am, 12:12pm, 1:44pm, 3:12pm, 4:44pm, 5:55pm, 7:25pm, 8:25pm, 9:38pm, 10:38pm, and 11:38pm. All trips serve the Outlet Mall 6 minutes after leaving Great Adventure, except the 11:38pm Saturday trip and the 9:38, 10:38, and 11:38pm Sunday trips.
The 309 will operate from Lakewood Bus Terminal via US 9 with a stop at US 9 and Aldrich Rd P/R, then operate via I-195 and CR 537 to Six Flags Outlet Mall, and on route to Great Adventure. The fare from Lakewood is $1.90 to the Outlet Mall and $2.30 to Great Adventure; from Aldrich Rd, the fare is $1.55 to the Outlet Mall and $1.90 to Great Adventure. Daily service will depart hourly from Lakewood starting at 8:20am until 7:20pm; return service will depart Great Adventure hourly starting at 9:05am until 5:05pm, then at 6:13pm, 7:27pm, 8:41pm, and 9:47pm; all trips would serve the Outlet Mall, except for the 9:47pm Sunday trip, which would leave SFGA at 9:53pm. An additional weekend trip will depart from Great Adventure at 11:23pm, and not serve the Outlet Mall.
Both services are being funded in part by Six Flags Great Adventure.
Did they add more buses on RTE 308?
RTE308 MCI D4500#7700
www.geocities.com/patkylekenny
Wow, where did you get that picture of the SEPTA's New Flyer lowfloor? Also, can you make it a thumbnail of some sort so I can have a better view of it?
Wow, where did you get that picture of the SEPTA's New Flyer lowfloor? Also, can you make it a thumbnail of some sort so I can have a better view of it? Also, the 1986 Neoplans were the only ones, in addition to the 1984 models, that do not have Wheelchair lifts. However, every SEPTA Neoplan from 1987 on to 1989, as well as the 2000 artics, have wheelchair lifts. The 80's Neos have their lifets in the back.
The 1988 (EI/3252-3371) and 1989 (EZ/3372-3491) Neoplans are the only ones besides the first batch of Neoplans from 1982 (AK/8285-8434) that have wheelchair lifts.
BTW, the ElDorados are being used on the 118 between Chester and Newtown Square/King of Prussia. I just heard two go by as I write this from the Media Library (waiting for the 110 to Granite Run and the 119 back to West Chester).
Okay, well, I got my information from YOUR site, ctrabs. Anyway, since when did the 118 need smaller buses? I guess it's when they reduced that midday service in the middle of the route.
Exactly. Even if the full service went all the way to King of Prussia instead of short turning at Newtown Square, they still would have needed the ElDorados. From time to time, the 35 ft Neos would be seen on the 118, both when they were at Frontier and even now at Red Arrow.
Generally, ridership on the 118 isn't that high once you get north of Media. During peak hours, however, there are quite a few riders heading to and from King of Prussia.
I remember when they used 35 ft Neos on the 105. If you had ridden it on the weekends, it would be a good bus, but during the weekdays around peak service, really bad. Don't a lot of people ride the 118 for DCCC?
Not really. The ridership, as I said, is generally situated between Media and Chester Terminal. I have seen a few people get on and off at DCCC, but I don't really ride the 118 all that much to begin with. The observations I've made are based on a few trips over the past couple of years.
nobodt rodes the 118
nobody rodes the 118.that why they used eldorado's
Why is the links page blank? Are you going to put more photos up sometime?
The first I've seen of these, yet this is noted as "Volume 2 Number 3", an 8.5" x 11" full color glossy magazine consisting of 16 pages of bus related information.
Featuring "Zerega Avenue Maintenance & Training Facility" info. Including:
Replacement for 100th Street Depot
Replacement for Coliseum Depot
Depot Upgrade info
Maspeth CMF / Depot
New bus parking facilities
Equipment
Latest Project Agenda
The back cover features the 7 bus models that the NYCTA currently uses:
RTS-04 / RTS-06
Orion 5
MCI OTR Coach
Articulated
Orion CNG
Low Floor Hybrid
Nova LFS
Includes a graphic of each bus, description, cost, capacity, number in service / on order, and more.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you could get a copy from customer service. If you want one faster, I'll send it. Email me with your snail mail address.
For those of you who have asked for the 1999/2000 Insiders Guides, they have already been sent, so you'll not be receiving the "Making Score" magazine unless you email me again (with the exception of "WJ" who mailed today and will receive the magazine along with the guides).
You can also go to the MTA website and download the PDF version of "Making Score"
Are they at the ENY depot?
This is the new fare info from septa from the wires...one of the benefits of working in a newsroom
SEPTA FARE INCREASE
SEPTA says it plans to raise fares systemwide, possibly in July.
The transit agency's plan is a 30-cent increase in the base fare, to $1.90; a 15-cent increase in the cost of a token to $1.15; a 20-cent increase in transfers, to 60 cents; a $1.50 increase in weekly Transpasses, to $18.75; a $6 increase in monthly Transpasses, to $70, and a 12.7 percent increase in regional rail tickets and Trailpasses. SEPTA also plans to expand the use of Transpasses to more lines.
SEPTA GM Jack Leary says the agency wants people to turn more to the weekly and monthly passes, to save money and to change the way they travel along with SEPTA's changes in the way it operates.
There'll be five public hearings on the fare plan, one in each of the Southeastern Pennsylvania counties where SEPTA operates, followed by a non-binding recommendation from a hearing examiner.
The SEPTA board is expected to vote in June and the fare hikes would likely take effect sometime in July.
Oh, so it's ONLY $1.90 instead of $2.00? Wow, I'm relieved... (note scarcasm)
But, a 60 cent transfer charge? Assuming zone charges also increase to 60 cents (that hasn't been confirmed, but I have a feeling that it will be the case), I'm looking at an extra $1.10 just for the privilege of taking SEPTA from West Chester to Center City.
The fare riding public isn't going to be too happy to hear this. SEPTA had better make some damned good tradeoffs to this fare increase unless they want ridership to really plummet.
No, the suburban zone charges are changing to 50 cents, and I think they are trying to simplify the zones. Lol, I bet there will be this token rush right before the fare changes to avoid the dollar 90 that has to be spent for regular fares! SEPTA is so insecure, I bet one day very soon (if not another company, I will, somehow, I guess...) will take over SEPTA. It should be very easy.
Today is a VERY NICE day here in NYC. It's in the Mid 60's.
While I was on my way home from Westchester on the Whitestone Bridge just right at the Toll Area saw #6140 on Q44LTD. Then after that. By 20 AVE saw a Beeline RTS at 20 AVE in Whitestone. Then I came home and drop off my Jacket(For this morning) And get the Money from my dad and went back outside. Then saw #1181 and #1146 on Q10 as on my way to the Post Office to drop off a letter. Took A photo of #1181 very quick. Then after I went to the Post office and the Bakers Dozen on Lefferts Blvd in Kew Gardens. Then I wait for A Q10 to go to the subway(Relly I went to CVS on Queens Blvd). Then #5550 came and it was PACKED. Went on #5550. The Sign on #5550 is working again then the last time I saw it. Then after CVS. I was going to take the LONG WAY home(Q46 or Q74 for 2 Stops then walk back 1/2 block from bus stop then walk on 134ST To Hoover then walk home.)1st I try Q46 there was 2 Buses there and I took a Photo of #8361 CHILLING OUT under the SUN. Then I was running for #4921 witch was in service. BUT the Driver and Superviser was talking outside #4921. I did not even went into their case. Then I went back to the Other side of Queens Blvd for the Q74 Saw #545 on that RTE. But I saw a Q60 comming and did not went on #545. Then #621 came and just somehow I saw a another one and Just let #621 go. Then that bus came and it was #706 on Q60. YES Q60.
Got on that one and when I got off I took 2 Photos of #706. The end.
I went back outside about 30 Minutes ago. And saw #5513 behind it was #605. Then I waited for Q10 to go home from C-Town and it was #292 then I got off and #651 was behind it.
Yo! Found this hot ass RTS site for them real RTS fans. If you are a real RTS fan check it out.....
WWW.NOVABUSRTS06.50MEGS.COM
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
IF YOU ARE A REAL RTS FAN, THIS SITE FOR YOU. ENJOY AND LET US KNOW YOU OPINION. WWW.NOVABUSRTS06.50MEGS.COM
www.novabusrts06.50megs.com
See the RTS site on www.novabusrts06.50megs.com ENJOY!!!
I saw on the news this morning that WMATA Orion VI #2002 (I think it's assigned to Four Mile Run Division) hit a utility pole last night. The damage didn't appear to be too bad.
Wayne
Every day I see at _least_ one Metrobus swipe a sign on the side of Tenley Circle NW. This accounts for all the scraped bus-sides that have been popping up lately.
Metro either needs to train its drivers to drive properly, or DC needs to re-grade the street so buses in the right lane aren't tilted over the curb, or DC needs to set the sign back.
I'm just waiting for someone to be decapitated by a flying "no parking" sign, God forbid. Yikes
C
There was a PA 100/Business US 322 trailblazer sign northbound on High St turning off of Market St in West Chester not too long ago. Both the Krapf's and SEPTA buses (save for the Breeze vans) had a difficult time making that turn, since they were often came close to hitting the signs. The trailblazer sign has since been removed (or it was probably knocked down).
Alright, most if not all of us know that SEPTA has budget problems, and they are going to raise our fares. Now, I know that it's going to be hard, but we need to get some serious funds for SEPTA. Now, we need to save them. Now, who's with me? Email me at storytraveler@hotmail.com.
Is there any route call D6 down in DC? Because I saw a photo of a Orion6 on D6. And I check WMATA.com and D6 don't run anymore. Is D6 still running?
D6 Orion6 #2067
Yeah, it's kind of a fun route -- it runs from RFK stadium in Northeast thru Capitol Hill and Glover Park to Sibley Hospital along MacArthur Blvd in the Palisades. It's a 7-day-a-week route. You can get the schedule in PDF format here.
C
Thank You. I would ride D6 while I in DC.Do Orion6's run on that route?
D6 Orion6 #2000
Orion VI's do run on that route, along with some Orion V's and Flxible Metro B's and D's. You just have to take a chance with what shows up. These buses come out of the Bladensburg garage.
The one WMATA route that I see a lot of Orion VI's on is the 23A that runs from Crystal City in Arlington, VA to Tysons Corner Mall in Fairfax, VA. I've also seen a lot running on the 13A that is the Pentagon loop that starts at the Pentagon and goes through the museum area of DC and then back over to the Pentagon. That whole ride takes about 40 minutes.
I have seen references to a 2 1/2, 3,6 and 12 year overhaul/upgrade of buses. What exactly is done during each cycle.
there sometime rebuilt the transmission & engines
They place fancy blue and silver stickers on the bus.... that's all I've ever noticed.... :-)
while for septa they made there bus lounder.and slightly faster for some of the 1989 neoplan an440 models 3372-3491 and and
eviroment friendly for the 1988-89 neoplan eb and ez.the engine were
6v92ta.
Depending on the year of overhaul, certain componets of the bus are changed, such as A/C units, compressors, electrical systems, etc. The reasoning is by doing these overhauls on a schedule it will prolong the life of the bus and in the long run the bus will breakdown less. Right now at Mother Hale depot there are Artic's getting scheduled overhauls but I do not which type.
OK- SMS for a bus- makes sense. Can someone post which components get replaced at which overhaul This has already been done on the subway side.
the engine and transmission.and ivery
In theory, buses are supposed to be overhauled every 3 or 4 years. I don't know the details on SEPTA's overhaul program, but I know the big overhaul for buses is supposed to come after the 6th year. SEPTA, however, is notorious for delaying it's overhauls - to an extent.
Rode this diesel Orion today, it had 3 seats missing across from rear door and was full of leaks.
It was hard to find a dry place to sit in there. Those LIB diesel Orions must be corroding, the leaks are getting bad everytime it rains.
In the questioning of why 8300 out of Yukon was in Queens:
Today, around 1:45-2:00PM, I was on the corner of Worth St. & Broadway. Bus 8300 drove by, with signs sating TRAINING BUS, and Yukon decals.
It was probably in Queens for Training, and wound up in service.
this bus along with 8299 are training buses. as such they never would see revenue service except at yukon when they are not used for training.
Here is something I do not understand. Why is the MTA going to scrap the following busses?
#8397 - Hybrid
#8398 - Diesel/CNG
#8399 - CNG
#8567 - CNG
These are all TMC RTSs. They are still young. Was there some problem with them?
I do not understand why they would do this, especially since they want CNG busses and are receiving new Hybrids?
I believe they were experimental prototype buses. Since they no longer function as originally designed, and because parts would probably be difficult to obtain, and since the LF and CNG contracts are provided to other suppliers, there simply isn't a need for them.
Of the 4 listed, I drove 8567 at Gleason and fully agree with it's scrapping.
Just an opinion though :-)
the last three will not be able to be fueled at gleason due to the change in the cng fueling station. only new flyer and orion can be fueled there. 8397 was a beautiful conversion by eny cmf however nyct found replacing parts too expensive.
307 Freehold ---Six Flags Great Adventure
Beginning at Freehold Center Bus Stop
R on West Main St
C on 537 West
Entering Manalapan
C on 537 West
C on 537 West,Millstone
Left on Trenton -Lakewood Road Route 571,Jackson
R on Entrance to 6 Flags Outlet Mall
U Turn at Charter Bus Lot behind Stores
C on 571 Exit
L on 571
L on 537 West,Millstone
L on Great Adventure Blvd,Jackson
C on Bus Stops at Admin Bldg ,and main Bus Stop
Destination Signs
307 Six Flags
307 Grt Adventure
307 Outlet Mall
307 Six Flags
307 Grt Adventure
307 Six Flags
307 Outlet Mall
307 Freehold Ctr
Return
C on access road to 537 Exit,Jackson
R on 537 East
R on Trenton -Lakewood Road ROute 571
C on 571 Exit
L on 571
R on 537 East
C on 537 East,Freehold Twsp
C on West Main St,Freehold Boro
L on Throckmorton St
L on Broad St
L on Freehold Ctr to Bus Stop
309 Lakewood -Six Flags Great Adventure
Beginning at lakewood Bus terminal ,
L on 1st Street
R on US 9 North
C on US 9 North ,Howell
L on I 495 west via right jughandle,Howell
C on I 495 West
C on I 495 west to exit 16,Jackson
R on 537 east
R on Trenton Lakewood
and same as 307
Destination Signs
309 Six Flags
309 great Adventure
309 Outlet Mall
309 Six Flags
309 Grt Adventure
309 Six Flags
309 Outlet Mall
309 Lakewood
return via same to
Left route 537 West,Millstone
L on I-195 east via right jughandle
C on I 195
C on I 195 East to exit 28 ---Howell
R on US 9 South
C on US 9 South ,Lakewood
L on Main St
L on Lakewood Bus Terminal
This is odd. On Tuesday saw #707 on Q60. Then on Thursday got on #706 on Q60. This morning saw #707 on Q10 and This afternoon got on #709 on Q60. I wounder if GBL is stort of buses or the Orions are OUT OF SERVICE to get those new Balios signs?
Q10 MCI Classic #707
Q60 MCI Classic #707
Q60 MCI Classic #706
Q60 MCI Classic #709
Q10 Orion5 #5550
Just because you saw 3 buses with very close numbers around the same day doesn't mean GBL is short on buses. It's called coincidence. I was just looking at one of the GBL Orion's yesterday with the sign boards totally removed (don't ask me what # it was) and was tempted to ask the operator if he knew when the new signs would be arriving in.
BIG AL
This is normal, there are days the MCI Classic run the lines also those Classic you saw were not suburban versions, those are transit versions and they are the only ones like that in the entire NYCDOT Fleet.
The ONLY true suburban Classics that Green operates are Buses #701 & 702. The other Classics were built for transit usage, however buses #713-716 have suburban style seating BUT have back doors and those buses I've rarely seen in Express usage, for the most part I've seen 713-716 & 705-712 (The standard transt buses) in Q Local service.
So to sum it up, the buses you saw were in the right spot!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
It's not normal. Because.
1.Q60 never ran Classics since 1999.
2.Q10 don't run Classics on weekends.(Unless a bus broke down on that route)
Well I could tell you this. That #702 was caught running Q10 back in Summer of 1999. I just don't have a reason why #702 was running on a local route. BUT I could tell you this. I Almost went on it. #713-#716 was used alot on QM18 when it first came in. Then by 1995. Most runs on QM18 where with a wheelchair bus.that was the TMC RTS's. By 2000 QM18 mainly runs Orions with a few Classics.One of the Orions are ExNYBS witch is #722 fround running QM18 Everyday.
QM18 MCI Classic#713
Q10 MCI Classic#702
QM18 Orion5 #5501
QM18 Orion5 #722
Ok fine with what you saw, however I have pics of the Classics running the 10, 60 and 9 on a saturday! which was fall of 2000. Also i was at 165th Street terminal about two sundays ago and the Q6 sported 3 classics!
So the classics can and will show up anywhere. Normality! Never run any past the NYCDOT Privates, to date i've seen billions and billions bus happening, what most people would call "weird occurances."
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I also hvae photos of Classics on Q10,Q37,and Q60. And I do understand what you trying to tell me in the post before. I guess it have to do with the Arera that I live in. Maybe not.
Q10 MCI Classic#707
Q37 MCI Classic#716
Q60 MCI Classic#706
There really is nothing you can say about what is normal and what is not normal. It's all up to the dispather that is assigning the bus. You may be right about the certain types of buses you saw running at a particular given time, but that may have been with the same dispather asigning the buses you always saw. Now there probably is a different dispathcer since they change with the picking of schedules, and now the new dispatcher assigns the buses diffently.
BIG AL
From what i know of GBL it does depend on the dispatcher. One that i knew a while back just gave out whatever he felt like or if you asked for what you wanted. In the rockaway depot you just picked what you wanted (most drive the same bus all the time.) Also over at JBL you will see the same bus on the same line about 90 percent of the time but every so often they would put all the same type on one line( ie all the grummans or the older flxibles) just to make things different.
{It's not normal. Because.
1.Q60 never ran Classics since 1999.}
Thats not true. I have taken photos of Classics on the Q60 during the year 2000. Maybe you just didn't see any on the Q60 since 1999 or just havent seen any in so long that it seems like it was 1999.
Peace,
Kevin
Transit World New York
Maybe it have to do with the times that I outside waiting for the Q60.
Q60 MCI Classic#709
Saw this right front of Harppers on Union Turnpike today. Somehow it almost looks like the SEPTA cutaways. BUT it's not built by FORD and the front part is diffent. Who bulit this and what year is bulit?
That is a 1998 Navistar Bus. It is part of their Paratransit department.
Thank You. Since I took a photo of that bus that I need to know.
I saw two pictures. Both were RTSs that were in LI Bus Paint scheme. The orange stripe seemed to be added over a pre-existing blue one. One was 4206 and 4597 if I remember correctly.
Is or did NYCT send some of the retiring RTSs to LI BUS? I know they did it with the Fishbowls. Was it done again and if anyone knows what the original #s are and model if in fact they were sent to LI BUS.
The pics are at www.transitworld.com Under PHOTOGRAPHY, click THE PEOPLE'S PAGE under PHOTOS BY RICH HERMAN.
Just from looking at one of the pics it seems that the front display has similar display sign lettering as a 1981 RTS, like 1214,1385,and 2270.
NYCT sent several RTS's over to LI Bus a couple of years ago when they were short on buses. But the buses are not 4206 & 4597. I just drove 4597 a couple of days ago, so I know it's not that. These buses sent over to them were 1981s & 1982s, but LI Bus has since got rid of them also when they received in new Orion CNG buses, which was 2 shipments ago now.
BIG AL
They were actually 1206 and 1597 if I am not mistaken LIBus changed the 1 into a 4
Could also have been 2206 and/or 2597. I recollect that MSBA got some 2000's as well as some 1000's and changed all to 4000's. I had seen a list of the MSBA RTS's, but I can't locate it right now.
And Fresh Pond took the real 4206 out of its' misery recently.
You must mean:
http://www.transitworld.org
what i dont understand is if the TA send RTS buses to LI BUS, why cant they do the same to either Green or Triboro Coach. Green could definately use them and Triboro could start replacing some buses.
Because LI Bus is part of the MTA Network. Green & Triboro are not.
Not to mention the fact that GBL & TCC probably don't want to replace their 1985 buses with 1981 buses...
Unless it is Rebulit.Like the 7000's and 7500's for example.
B41 GM RTS#7000
B41 GM RTS#7500
All I got when I went to that site was...WELOCOME TO THE FUTURE SITE OF TRANSITWORLD.com...Please explain
Peace,
ANDEE
That guy must gave everybody a WRONG URL. Here's the right URL to transitworld.
www.transitworld.org
That should work.
I took those LI Bus RTS pics during the end of January 2000 which during that time all the LI Bus RTS's were being retired, probably scrapped. 4206 was originally MABSTOA 2206 and 4597 was originally NYCT 1597. Two days earlier before I took those pictures, another RTS was being towed away from the LIB facility, I think it was 4504 which was originally NYCT 1504, a Fresh Pond original. There were about 9 former NYC RTS's sent to LI Bus which saw some local service and also used for LIRR service.
Some were used for local service.Had 4322(1322 or 2322)on the N22A during the morning rush hr back in Oct 99.
I've seen an RTS on the N22 in October 1999 as well. How was the condition of the bus? How did it run?
That 6V-92 engine has to be better than the Cummins. Then again, most everything is better than Cummins anyway.
I could rember seeing 2 RTS's.One was running on N4 back in Summer of 1999. The other was not in service on Jamaica Ave in Summer of 1999 Too.
to bad septa dont have rts no more
Yeah, but you can still see RTS buses thanks to N.J. Transit.
Only if SEPTA could just have Rebulit the RTS's. What year the SEPTA RTS's Retired?
The SEPTA RTS fleet was retired in 1997.
Not bad for RTS-03s.
For a bus that was 18 yrs old at the time (I remember it distinctly being an 81 RTS-04 by the drivers ODK) it ran quite well along Hillside (great speed and good acceleration)
yea i remember when septa have rts II they have good speed
and a good transmission but they break down alot.
Mostly due to A/C causing the engine overheat, since it was in the engine compartment. They were cool for the most part after the (around)'84-'86 overhaul, when they put Sutrak A/C's on the roof. BTW-does anyone know where you can find pictures of SEPTA's RTSs? I know there's one out there on a newsgroup archive page.
yea at go to google type in septa rts bus you find a pictue
btw what is the address for the newsgroup archive page.
http://members.aol.com/chictafan/wosepta.html
is the link link with another rts picture.
btw: what is the address for the newsgroup archive page.
Better than a Cummins Orion that's for sure. LI Bus should not have scrapped those RTS buses. Instead they should scrap the Cummins Orions or replace the engines in them.
And don't sit in the back seat of a Cummins bus, those seats are HOT.
Those Cummins run extremely hot. I guess with all the slow laboring and all.
Maybe What MTA should do is send about 25 RTS Suburbans to LI Bus for use on the JFK Flyer and the 1984-1985 RTS Transit's that are ready to retired to be send to LI Bus to add more buses on High Ridership routes Like N20,N21,N27,N24,and N6.
JFK Flyer GM RTS#1852
N24 GM RTS#3912
N6 GM RTS#3474
There really needs to be more N20/21 buses, especially mid-days when each line runs only once an hour (half hourly between Roslyn and Flushing).
Sorry All. I was tired and sick when posting. Should have been
.org - not .com
This was in the newspapers yesterday. A thief stole a bike that was left sitting outside a bodega in the Bronx. As he pedaled away with the owner chasing him, he went around a corner too fast on West Farms Rd, lost his balance and fell right into the path of a BX11 bus which ran over him. He died a short time later. Too add insult to injury, the bike again was stolen from the accident scene (it was not damaged) but was recovered by the police a few blocks away.
So once again, just like that moronic jerk jogger that just got killed on Queens blvd, we have another totally senseless death by someone doing something stupid, with a bus operator who will have to live with this crap for the rest of his life.
BIG AL
Well said Big Al. In addition to having to live with the guilt you know the TA in all it's infinite mercy will find some way to blame he/she at least partially for the accident.
I disagree with you DHF60. Knowing T/A, they will probably blame the operator TOTALLY for the accident!
BIG AL
Yeah, I read that story...the thing that really bugs me is that the owner of the bike REFUSED to press charges against the 2nd person that stole the bike.
Peace,
ANDEE
This Morning.
I saw #1767 on Q46. Want to take a photo of #1767 but the truck is in the way.I got on #3824 on Q46.This was my first time on a 1985 RTS Suburban.Took 3 photos of #3824.
Q46 GM RTS#1767
Q46 GM RTS#3824
I had not only 1 Suburban but 2. In a way out with the old and in with the new. I went a different way to school today. Started off with 9398 on the 7 line. Passed by Shea to see whassup there-as of 830am-nothing. But the train got packed at 111 St due to a lay up of the train in front of me which was late. I got into Flu-shing and saw 9278 pulling onto Roosevelt Ave. I decided wait for 9278 to pull aroud. At 9am I got on her. I noticed that under the seats are reflectors. I never saw this on the Orion Suburbans. Are the Nova Suburbans the only buses with these reflectors on them? Got off at Union Tpke to get on the Q46 to get to SJU. I let 8392 pass me by-was pretty crowded. Next bus was an Old Suburban RTS from 1982: PA1773! I had to get to school so I got on 1773. Still rides pretty good but am wondering why they still have these buses still running?
They have Novas 9287-9288 and 20 Suburban Orions 611-630. And yet they still run 1700s and 3800s. Go figure!
Q17#9278Gary
Q46#1773Gary
The reflectors you saw on the platforms are supposed to be orange lights. I guess they don't replace the bulbs in them anymore.
Peace,
Kevin
[I had to get to school so I got on 1773. Still rides pretty good but am wondering why they still have these buses still running?]
Sounds like you just answered your own question...
It should be a matter of time before we say farewell to these buses. Still, the fact that they still ride relatively well is a testament to both the TA's maintainence compared to other systems.
You have to keep in mind, that until recently, these 1700 coaches were the only express bus we had. Our customers on the X68 depended on these buses to be there for them, and offer a safe reliable ride. That's why they are still in fairly decent shape.
Still, as local buses, they just don't have the pick-up. They're better on the highway.
But when I saw run 033 turn 260 with that 1773, I gave him the "LOL" look! He didn't seem all that thrilled with todays selection :-)
As an aside, for those who saw #4900 on the X68 this morning, here's the story:
The original bus (Orion #624) pulled into Kew Gardens with a red engine warning lamp, and subsequently stalled out. The SLD at Kew Gardens swapped that Orion with 025/46.
We also had #7004 down at Union and 260 (19/46). Run 701 (AA 01) made that trip from Springfield inbound, then swapped with run 19 on the outbound (eastbound - LIJ) trip. The AA driver waited with 7004 for the road truck.
As the first day of hot weather engulfs us, we're bound to see more disabled buses.
I was on #9278 on Q17 today. I saw what you was talking about. It's like Red Light on the step going to the last seat on #9278. Maybe JA put on that just when it came to JA from UP.
Q17 Nova RTS#9278
You can add 1852 on the Q46 this morning too. Riding the Q17, Q46 and Q75 no longer provides surprises in terms of seeing a soft seater anymore.
You can add the Q79 to that list of soft-seaters. Although today I didn't notice any, they have found a home there nonetheless.
Run 032 had that 3800.. he seemed somewhat pleased with his bus. A better man than I... LOL!
Today. I saw #3818 on Q46. Did not went on #3818 because alot of people was getting on. Got on #613 on Q46. Saw #1767 on Q46. Saw #3824 on Q46.#3824 was the one I went on yesterday just happin to see it again. Then going back to Kew Gardens. Got on #611 on Q46. Then got on #138 on Q74 to go home.
Q46 GM RTS#1767
Q46 GM RTS#3818
Q46 GM RTS#3824
Q46 Orion5 #611
Q46 Orion5 #613
Q74 Orion5 #138
This Morning.
I got on #1767 on Q46 to go home. I have that bus on Run #5 to Springfeld Blvd at 8:40 AM this morning. And took 2 Photos of #1767.
Q46 GM RTS#1767
Today.
I got on #9278 on Q17. This was my first time on a Nova Suburban. The Ride is great.Just I don't get it why the VERRY Last seat in #9278 is cut open? Must be from people putting SHARP stuff on the seats. Also I saw #617 on Q75.
Q17 Nova RTS#9278
Q75 Orion5 #135
What do you mean that you don't get why the very last seat in 9278 is cut open? The reason is VANDALISM. And that is the very reason why the TA and Triboro Coach have no business running soft seaters on local routes.
I see. I do say that MTA don't put soft seaters on some LOCAL Routes. Unless a bus broke down in a area where there's VANDALISM and don't have any Hard Seat buses and they have no chose to put in a soft seater on that route.
Q5 Nova RTS#9278
Today.
I saw #616 and #618 on Q46. I got on #625 and #621 on Q46.
Q46 Orion5 #616
Q46 Orion5 #618
Q46 Orion5 #621
Q46 Orion5 #625
PS.
Have anybody been on #621 before? because the seat by the rear door. The part where you put the BUT on is BLUE. Anouther one like that is #138.
Saw a notice today on some Triboro CNG's about a change on Routes Q-19 A and Q-19 B but could not read what it was.
Does anybody know?
Thank You
The Q19A have its bus stop moved to 24 St near Queens Plaza South. Also the Q101R EXPRESS,and Q39 have the bus stop move to the same place as the Q19A. Witch could keep the bus stops the way before the bus stop moved.The moveing of bus stops in Queens Plaza is VERRY STUPID to me.
I'm not sure of the particulars here, but as one who has been working the QB44D (Court Square 23/Ely, Queens Plaza, Queensbridge 21st Street) subway shuttle, I can tell you that because of major structure work on the Queens Blvd bridge, traffic pattersn in the area have been changed, as well as bus stops (and routes) moved to accomodate.
Because I'm only vageuly familiar with the area, I won't speculate. I'll offer what I know as far as the QB44D is concerned:
There is no longer a left turn permitted from 44th Drive onto Jackson. (The shuttle bus must cross Jackson, make a right on Thompson, then a right onto Jackson in lieu of a left from 44th Drive).
All traffic at Queens Plaza South must now turn right onto Jackson Avenue, as there is no longer a left turn permitted onto Jackson / QB/ Northern. Of course, there is no traffic permitted crossing the bridge as well.
Also, QPS is closed to thru-traffic in this area. Permitted vehicles include local delivery, buses, taxis, and municipal vehicles. All other traffic must turn right from the bridge.
[The moveing (sic) of bus stops in Queens Plaza in VERRY (sic) STUPID to me.]
The Queens Plaza stops were moved as part of a "congestion management" plan necessitated by the reconstruction of the Queens Blvd. Bridge over Sunnyside Yard.
In order to avoid having too many vehicles using any one detour, traffic is moved away from Queens Plaza South in stages:
* Anything already on QPS west of 24th Street (Q19A, Q39, Q67, Q101, Q101R, Q102) must make the right on 24th.
* Anything coming off the Queensboro Bridge "bike" lane is channeled into Crescent Street.
* Anything coming off the Queensboro Bridge main roadway (right lane), including Q32 and Q60, still proceeds into QPS, but must turn off somewhere. With most traffic turning at Jackson, DOT instructed Transit (Q32) and Green (Q60) to use 28th Street and 42nd Road to access Jackson.
It will take some getting used to, but it's certainly preferable to the alternative (letting the Queens Blvd. Bridge and the Flushing elevated collapse into Sunnyside Yard).
Well. We all know that Lakeland is closeing for good. I know that Lakeland bus routes is going to be run by PABCO Transit. BUT one thing that I don't know is where are the buses going and the new D4000 order is going to? Can somebody tell me?
I have seen one of LL's MC-9Bs back in NJT Paint on Dave Mackey's NJT Photos so some the MC-9As and MC-9Bs may be returned to NJT for some 40' RTS and Flxibles as the 30' RTS are often packed on the #10. There may some stop changes such as the Buses may use the PABCO Stop at Rockaway Mall instead of the Park & Ride(Lot 33 near the Hilton). The D4000s may be delivered to the PABCO garage near the NJT Rail line unless PABCO is going to be moving into Lakeland's Garage. The other thing that concerns me is the Time Span PABCO operates the current routes in. Will the 1,2,3,and 10 run along with the NYC Commuter Routes or the NYC Routes cut back? I also assume Lakeland Bus 3267(Metro-B) is their Wheelchair bus. I have not seen this bus in use for who knows how long, mainly the MCIs are used. Also what will happen with the 4,5,7,and 8 which run with very little bus service when this changes. I for one would like to see the 5 run full time.
The MCM 4, 5, 7, and 8 buses are rural services, which I would hope aren't affected by the Morris County/PABCO takeover of Lakeland. I would presume that NJT will subsidize the costs of the new PABCO services once the dust settles, just as NJT has covered some of the costs of the current MCM services.
I must have missed that announcement - where did you hear that? Lakeland's website doesn't mention it at all. I would also think Martz Trailways might want to pick up some of the runs along 80, augmenting their Panther Valley and Hackettstown service.
The Sunday Star Ledger must have had that info.
Someone posted this at Bustalk. That's how I know.
Here is the info that I have: NJT Rail Operations Midtown Direct Service is what drove the nail into Lakelands coffin. Supposedly, NJT is subsidising Lakeland $100,000 per month since Midtown Direct Service was implimented mostly because of ridership losses. As of June 1, 2001, NJT will take over Lakelands' local routes. What route modifications to be made, I do not know. How many buses and which ones to be transfered I do not know as well as if some drivers & mechanics also get taken in by NJT. I would expect the MC9's, which I think are from 1983 to be retired from service. Finally, Lakeland Transit will NOT be going out of business. They will still do charter work and they have some nice tour packages. The tour sheet is in the depot office. The Metropolitan NY Bus Assn. visited the facility a week ago Saturday.
Thanks Bill - that makes a bit more sense. I'm sure NJT Rail will just add a few cars and/or trips to get those last few stragglers from Lakeland, and whatever routes remain will likely be the Rockaway Mall-NYC run (possibly NJT #198, easily served from the Wayne garage, which is scheduled to get 45-foot MCIs in the new order), and the run from Sparta to Wayne becoming an MCM route.
NJT acknowledged that they would owe Academy a ton of money in subsidies and stipends if they start the Monomout-Ocean-Middlesex rail line, as that would similarly decimate Academy's shore operations.
MARTZ would suffer when NJT Rail/Amtrak? start running to Scranton and points served by the MARTZ Scranton-NYC route.
They won't suffer. There's already more demand than they can handle, and it gets worse by the day. NJT Rail will allow local travel to Morris County points from Pennsylvania. Martz does not, and then they still have the reservation crap departing PM rush from PABT ?
As Bill from Maspeth has said, Lakeland's routes will return to NJT and I believe that some may go to PABCO but not all. The Slated D4000 Cruisers for Lakeland will just be split upon NJT and PABCO. The routes that NJT gain from Lakeland will be placed in the Wayne Garage.
To Orion5 #135, the original post came from a bunch of us about Lakeland's death in the transit field, YES, Lakeland will still be operational but as a tour operator only.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
NJ Transit
Trevor, more than likely, this would mean that no one is going to pick up Lakeland's Wall Street runs. That would require some 96-inch D4000s (of which NJT apparently never allocated Lakeland in the first place), and that route was created by Lakeland to be direct competition for the Morris & Essex line anyway.
I also wouldn't think MCM/PABCO would get D4000s, either. They would be better off turning the Lakeland routes into MCM routes to feed the M&E stations, thus gaining a handful of 40-foot RTSs. The only Lakeland NYC route that doesn't compete with anything NJT already runs is the Rockaway Park/Ride.
How about some Flxibles and while were at it with giving PABCO more buses make the 4,5,7,and 8 full time. Your Idea would put more people on the MTD than NJT can handle. They might have to put a rail link between Rockaway Mall and Hoboken in(Remembering the Montclair Connection). The 24 line was doomed from the start with Community's 77 doing the Morristown-PABT also.
This ought to remove a little congestion from the Lincoln tunnel approach bus lanes.
Does anyone here know anything about this company? What they run, how they pay, differences between them and the NYCTA, etc?
Redding Area Bus Authority
Thanks!
It's just a tiny transit system in a small town in NoCal. I had some RABA timetables a few years ago and I don't remember anything that set RABA apart from any other small transit system. What is your particular fascination with RABA versus any other small system?
I think their fleet is mostly mid 90's Gillig Phantoms, possibly they have some newer buses as well. They have a few routes, most of which I remember running only on 60 minute headways, 30 at the very best.
I would assume that RABA is funded like most every TA in the country: Mostly local funds and farebox revenue for operation and mostly federal funds for capital costs.
The differences between RABA and NYCTA?! Well, aside from the fact that NYCTA probably has more buses than RABA has daily riders, they're pretty much the same.
Thank you for the information. It's not a fascination insomuch as I have a friend from Redding who sent me the link. I'm interested as to how their pay/benefit scale is as compared to NYCT.
Out of curiousity I emailed them and requested more information. Their drivers are hired and contracted by an outside agency! I'm going to assume they're not unionized? I don't see how they could be, given the fact each new employee signs their own individual contract.
Anyway, thanks for the reply!
Hmm...interesting. Sounds like they are very similar to Valley Metro; mostly Gilligs, serves a small city, and personnel is hired by a higher corporation. Very neat site; makes the TA look interesting, especially the aerial fleet view.
-F.
Any word what is the next order of buses for DOT and when (for Green,Command or Triboro). Also, why did Queens Surface send some of theri older RTS buses to NJ. They could have either sent them to Green Lines or Triboro and in return, Green or Triboro could have swapped buses. I also think Triboro should have sent ALL the ORION buses to Queens Surface and Queens sent their NOVA RTS buses to Triboro so they can have aFULL CNG Fleet since it was posted here that Triboro garage has no room. Can someone answer my questions?
I think nobody knows what is the next order is going to be. BUT I do think the new order is going to be the D4500's from MCI. Most likely the D4500's will be use on all Express Routes and the Orion Suburbans will do longer LOCAL service. For Transit. I would be guessing New Flyer D40LF's for Green and Jamaica. C40LF's for Triboro,QS,and Command. How about throw in D60LF's in that order for Green,Triboro,and QS.
The D4500's would be a perfect fit for Liberty Lines and NYBS. I don't know about the others, though.
Traditionally, NYCDOT has followed MTA/NYCT's lead, or so I would think. The Orion V CNG buses came shortly after LI Bus started to get their Orion V CNG buses; the TMC RTS came at around the same time as the 1994 TA RTS buses. The D40LF/C40LF seems like the next logical step for DOT, at least as it relates to for the Brooklyn/Queens services.
There are many SERVICES that the MTA, because of its enormous size, can provide, e.g. if they have already done all the work to certify that a particular bus is the best buy for NYC streets, why should nycDOT have to do it all over again ? And if they can tack onto that order the unit price maybe a bit cheeper.
In this case there SEEMS to be some reservations that the MCI Crusier is the best choice ... the problem with standees comes to mind. It happens to be the second Express bus that they are trying.
Disclaimer: I don't work for the MTA, TA, or nycDOT and am talking for myself only.
Mr t__:^)
I think the MCI D4500's would work well at Liberty and NYBS also. I know they'd be well care for just like anything Libery & NYBS gets their hands on. I'm just impressed with the condition of their Classics and Liberty's Bee Line MCI 102A2's. Also remember - prior to the Classics arrival in 1989 - Libery Lines and NYBS both had OTR coaches. Liberty used to have MC-8 and MC-9 and many GMC OTR coaches.
Wayne
[...why did Queens Surface send some of their old RTS buses to NJ?]
Very simply: Because NYCDOT had sold them to an outside party, who resold them to Lafayette & Greenville of Jersey City.
Remember that Queens Surface and the other "private" companies merely OPERATE those buses; NYCDOT actually owns them. (Hint: If you get into an accident with one of those buses, sue the CITY, not the company. The company will just settle, and then bill DOT for the amount of the settlement plus the 6 guaranteed profit.)
Triboro has a very old fleet of buses as it is, so you propose to make the average age older by sending their Orion CNG to Queens Surface in exchange for 1994 RTS's?....... The DOT would not have made any money if they sent QS 1985 RTS to Triboro just to replace other 1985's. I'm sure they made some money by selling some RTS to Lafayette & Greenville tho!
From what I heard is that GBL is getting the next order(all CNG Orion V's -140 to be exact to replace 10001,222-992,602-659).They are also doing construction on their depot at Rockaway Bl to become CNG.
I gather NYCDOT is not too eager to go the low-floor route, eh?
Actually I was hoping for either NFI C40HF's or D60HF's.
New York Bus Service in the Bronx will be proud owners (REAL SOON) of 4 MCI D4500 Cruisers, originally it was supposed to be 5 but now the 5th one is worded to be heading over to Command Bus (Surprised it isn't Queens Surface since they seem to get babied pretty good....Hint Hint: The Orion V/CNG Order).
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
NYBS is only getting four D4500s? Good news for the Fishbowls, maybe? :)
Once again the riders of Queens get shafted. I can see why NYBS is getting the MCI D4500 OTR Cruisers. Besides their maintenance being above par, they have routes that could rival some of the Staten Island X runs.
With that in mind, I can't see why Queens Surface would get passed over for some of the new coaches. Granted, there are plenty of the Orion V CNG's plying their equally as long routes. Unfortunately, there also tend to be as many standees as there are coaches. Factor in the legacy of the Green/Triboro/Command lack of proper support, and suddenly you'll see why the MCI coach will quickly be on the road to ruin.
On a different note, would the New Flyer Viking fit in either the NYBS or Queens Surface garages?
New York Bus Service parks their buses outdoors as does Queens Surfice Corp. In addition if you can handle a CNG bus because the tanks are on top you can handle a MCI Cruisers.
Also it should be noted that both New York Bus Service and Liberty Lines only have 10 buses each which are wheelchair equipped.
Queens Surfice has a very youg fleet overall and Green Bus is supposed to receive 140 Orion CNG's.
Commands fleet is also very young .
Thank You
I do think that part of the 140 Orion CNG Order to GBL will be Orion6's and the rest will be Orion5's.
I should say that the NYBS New Looks and the Early Classics should be replace with those COOL looking MCI D4500's and LL should replace the WHOLE fleet with D4500's and send the Weelchair lift Classics to GBL and some no weelchair lift classics over to QS and JBL.
Does LL have any Fishbowls left ? I remember around 9 years ago that several were painted to look like Classics.
The last Liberty Lines fishbowl I recall seeing was #1211 (a S8H-5304A) shortly after the MCI Classics had arrived. I think they were all gone (or on their way out of the door) once all the MCI's went into service.
Wayne
LL may have a preserved Fishbowl at the garage. But they've had none in service for years now.
If all goes well and NYBS is satisfied with these buses then these buses will be the replacement for the MCI Classics. As for Queens getting shafted again I dont think so. Command and NYBS usually get the demo buses for all the Privates. Also just because Command is getting one coach doesnt mean Queens Surface or another DOT company wont be testing that very same bus as it is more than likely to visit other garages. Like I said before if the testing goes well I am sure Queens will get their fair share of new MCI coaches. Lastly, I wouldnt include Command in the same category for lack of proper support as Green and Triboro. Since Command got their new president maintenance has improved greatly.
Peace,
Kevin
Meanwhile at this depot we're still overhauling our MCI Classics, as I saw another one getting washed just before a complete paint job.
Mr t__:^)
Today, I went on a bus trip to DC to see the chery blossoms. I went to Fort Totten, seeing the GMC Fishbowls (I didn't see any Flxible New Looks), an AM General, and the RTSs. Yesterday at Fort Totten I only saw one Flxible bus to my disappointment, but today I saw a lot more, althoug i didn't get to ride them once again. Yesterday I had ridden an Orion on the K6, and it was okay, I guess. The front door took a bit of time to open and the control board I noticed looked rather primitive.
Anyway, today I took the Red Line into the city, then the Blue/Orange line to the Smithsonian. In DC I saw just about every type of Metrobus still in service, including the Orion VIs and VIIs, and an Ikarus Articulated, but not the Orion IIs (I saw one at Fort Totten, though). On the way back I took the Orane lIne to New Carrolton (I had boarded the wrong train), passing the Landover scrap yard from the train. Then, from New Carrolton, I took the F4, and to my delight, I got to ride an Orion VII. That's right, a VII, number 2030, the first one I have ever ridden. It was a nice ride, especially when the driver turned on the AC, cooling the bus down. I sat in the back and was able to look out the rear window for the first time on a transit bus. I saw the seat that faced towards the back of the bus, and it was nice sitting in the soft seat (the older buses have harder seats, although they are not entirely "vandal proof" like the NYC subway car seats). The engine sorta reminded me of the SEPTA Neoplan AN460s, with the high whine thing. There was also this wirr in the engine that came and went off an on during the ride. At the back of the bus, there wasn't that wooden like interior stuff, and the metal parts were painted brown to match the wood trim or whatever you call it. Anyway, I had a question about the 40ft Orion Vs. Is it just me, or were there newer Orions that didn't have that sliver of a window before the back door? I was certain thee were, but I didn't see one Orion bus like that this time. Well, Orions are okay, but not great, and I'm still waiting for that ride on a Flxible bus....
First, you should not have to wait long to find a Flxible in Metrobus service!
Second, WMATA's 2000's are Orion VI's, not Orion VII's. No one knows what the hell the elusive Orion VII's even look like, and to my knowledge, the only order for them is that of MTA New York City Transit.
But I'm sure that people here were talkin about the Orion VII being a part of the WMATA bus fleet, and the Orion VI isn't suppsoe to have any steps on them. That's why I thougt it was an Orion VII. Also, one person said that they have ridden one of the Orion VIs on the WMATA bus fleet, and that they had ordered these buses due to some problems with the rear axle or something like that, but I think you migt be right about it anyhow, I wasn't sure exactly as to whether it was an Orion VI or VII. Also, I have seen many Flxibles, but never got to ride them. It seems like the Metrobus fleet is starting to become dominated by Flxibles.
Starting to become dominated by Flxibles? Basman! I thought you knew the WMATA fleet well! It could be that some Flxibles are being shifted around the garages so you are seeing more in some areas, but WMATA has taken delivery of nothing but Orions since the last Flxibles (4000-4100's) came in in 1995 along with the 5200's. I hate to say this, but it's only a matter of time before the oldest Metrobus Flxibles start to be retired.
I know; this sucks rocks, but I have to agree. Let's enjoy the glorious Flxes while we still can....for one day, they will be but a memory. Oh, if only someone would make new ones from the salvaged casting molds!
-F.
Oh, I'm sorry, I meant to say that they wee starting to become dominated by Orions, hehe, that was a major typo. The last time I have ridden a Flxible was when the Es were brand new a few years ago. I think I've only ridden the D once when they were operated on the C2/C4( they used to go right by my previous home on university BLVD. Anyway, I thought the oldest Flxible metros were starting to get retired now, my dad said he saw them at landover. By the way, in case anyone cares, the Fort Totten lot looks rather empty now, and in Landover I saw some of the MAN buses parked there.
When I went to DC a couple of months ago, I did see quite a few Flxibles. Actually, most of the Flxibles that I saw were at Anacostia and Greenbelt Metrorail stations. Quite a few Flxibles are still at Landover, same with some of the DC Divisions. Virginia seems to be Orion country, as I saw almost nothing but Orion V and VI buses (96xx, 39xx, 40xx, 41xx, 42xx, 20xx, and 21xx - quite a diverse mix in the Va. garages).
The bad news is that the Gilligs are still trudging along in Southeast Division.
Oh well... Bright side is that there's only 18 days till the Metrobus Roadeo at Landover... =)
Is the Roadeo open to the public?
Really? Hot dog...it's Roadeo season! Fill me in with more details; I wanna go there!
-F.
Oh, if only they were STARTING to become dominated again! Every time I have been to DC, I have seen mostly Flx Metros. I hope the pattern continues for a long time; I LOVE these beautiful buses!
-F.
Orion VIIs aren't on the market yet. They are on order though, if that makes sense. I still hate the RTS are gone after 22 years of wonderful service. WMATAs Flxibles are some of the owrst looking buses I'ver ever seen. That paint scheme, bleeech! The best Flxible I've ever seen was today. I'll explain that in my next post.
I don't think the WMATA Flx's are the worst looking. I'll admit I like the old paint scheme better than the new one, but the blue on the back of the repainted version is pretty nice. I'm a little biased for living here, but it could be worse. LA's paint scheme is a little boring. I think I would rank CTA in Chicago as having one of the better looking buses overall, though.
It is pretty sad to see the Orion's taking over the fleet here. Hopefully, we do get the CNG New Flyer's that were to be oredered. At least it will mix things up a bit.
You haven't seen a dressed up Flxible in Metro-Houston paint, exquisite!
It's like that with the D40LFs here. I believe we're to have 642 of them total. Almost half the fleet. Hopefully, Metro will invest in more RTS buses to replace the rest of the dual fuel failures from the early 90s.
Yeah, Houstons look good. Same with WMATAs; they are decked out just right, kind of like hot chicks in really sexy clothes that accentuate their lines JUST right. You know what I mean?
-F.
Yep.
I just hate it when TAs repaint Flxes in all white without the black around the windows. They look tacky, like every other bus made by Gillig and the like; it kills their sleek identity. The same holds true with RTSes.
-F.
Oy. You should see how our RTS and Flxibles look when they're up for auction. It ain't pretty!
At WMATA? Or where? Let me know....I may be able to relate on your opinion.
-F.
In Houston. When they're retired their doused in white primer. It's very tack. The white extends over the black windoes sometimes and over the wheels. It makes the buses age 10 years over night.
Oh God; that's HORRIBLE! Must be HELL for anyone who buys them. It almost sounds like what they do to the vehicles in Carhenge (the junk automotive equivalent of Stonehenge; perhaps a Bushenge isn't far off?). Also, that sounds like what some arenas do to junk cars before they are crushed at a monster truck show. That's TERRIBLE!
-F.
Is it possible to actully remove the black from the windows of the Flxibles and RTSs? I know that New York sorta tries to have their RTSs all white (around the windows) but they can't really.I think somehow they are connected or something, like the Flxes.
Yeah. Basically they are masked off and painted all white; this just looks flat out tacky on ADBs as it takes away from their sleek styling. Basically, they look like a generic blah bus like a Gillig or something. Not that Gilligs are bad, but Flx Metros and RTSes just look a hell of a lot better streamlined and not so boxy.
-F.
Hey...wait a minute. Are you referring to the older scheme with the grey bottom or the newer scheme? Of the two, I think the older scheme looks best. And what's so horrible about the Flx? It's a modern design that was YEARS ahead of its time when first introduced. In fact, compared to the Metro, most new buses look like something I ate and dropped.
-F.
You misunderstood me. I just hate the way WMATAs Flxs look in their paint scheme. I like the Flxible design!
The only bus that actually looks good in the new WMATA paint scheme is the Orion V, and maybe the Orion IIs. I noticed that none of the Ikaruses are in the new scheme. Is there a reason for that?
I like the Flx design as well; I'm just not too crazy about the new WMATA paint scheme. I like the original scheme a lot better on these; it just looks more like a professional, big city bus. And the black around the windows does a LOT more for the Flxible Metro's styling.
-F.
Well, the buses still do have that trim, you can't get rid of that, but it was nicer when it went farther back. I agree with you that the old scheme made the buses gave it that cool, tough, flxible look. The new scheme is basically for the Orions, but it looks good on them. I like the red stripes and blue, making it look more like the flag, which is very creative. I'm glad they didn't touch those Ikarus buses, though. An Ikarus/NABI wihtout black trim is just horrifying in my opinion. THat's why I'm starting to get mad at SEPTA for repainting these buses without black trim. It ruins the whole effect.
Yeah...they just look so much better with the black trim around the windows; it is part of their identity. If that was incorporated into the newer WMATA scheme I would like it a whole lot better. otherwise, as you said, they are just trying to make a Flxible look like an Orion. Most people out there don't care, but I do.
-F.
Another thing that I liked about the old WMATA sheme was the american flag that used to be on the left side of the bus under the driver's window. I know that the new sheme has them behind the windows, but you can barely see it. Well, at least they are keeping some Flxibles in the old sheme. At least, I hope so.
The ride on a WMATA Flx Metro is different, especially the later models; after growing up around 6v71-powered Grumman 870s and Metros, it was different riding a Cummins-powered model. While it looked familiar insode and out, it sure as hell didn't sound like a Metro to me.
Also, the bell cords were a retro touch; they reminded me more of a New Look, as opposed to the yellow "tape" style I was used to on these coaches, which more suits their modern design.
As for the back window on Orion VIIs, that's retro to me as well; it reminds me of sitting in a Flx New Look or GM Fishbowl. Quite a great experience to look through the back of a bus you're riding; it's just like riding in a big car.
-F.
I know, the cummins engines are so loud, with such a rumble. I've ridden every type of metro that the WMATA has, so I knw what you're talking about, but I'm stating to forget the Flxible experience, it's been so long. the only Flxibles I have ever ridden were the WMATA's Flxibles, so I thought all new Metros sounded like that.
Not all of them. The first ones, like the Grumman 870, came with DD 71-Series engines through at least 1987, then the 92-T Series became an option in the early 80s, eventually supplanting the 71.
Later models came with Cummins Celect, M10, and M11 engines as an option, and in 1994 and later models, the DD Series 50 was standard fare, as with most other makes such as Gillig and New Flyer, who took over Flx bids as they shut down in 1996.
My preference so far is the 71 Series Metros; I have rode Cummins models and was not impressed and don't much care for the Series 50. I have yet to ride a 92 Series Flxible; I do know that they sounds good in Gilligs, so maybe they sound even better in Metros.
-F.
One thing I loved about Orion buses was that the engines were so familiar. Like, on the WMATA fleet, the 1992 models sound like SEPTA's 40ft Neoplans, pre 1986, the other V models sound like the NABIs without that whirr sound, and the VIs remind me of SEPTA's AN460s. I know, it's because they are popular engines, but it's nice to hear familiar engines away from home. And those engines don't make this huge rumble that you can feel when you are 50 to 100ft away from the bus (WMATA Flxible Metro Es)
The NJT Metro Ds (and a couple other orders) have the Cummins 8.3 engine, or some variation thereof.
2030 is an Orion VI, not a VII.
Oh, well, I still like the Orion VI. But what is up with that step? Not that it gives me any trouble, but what happened to that "entirely low floor-no steps" jive they were giving on the web site that doesn't exist anymore? It ruins the enitre purpose of getting Orions. Don't get me wrong, I like them even though they are horrifyingly ugly on the outside, but there weren't suppose to be any steps!
I absolutely love the Q53!! I rode it today from Rockaway Park to Elmhurst and this is one fast ride. It's express through most of Queens (no stops) and Triboro uses nice smooth running Orion CNG bus with DDC Series 50G.
Also it has express style seating.
It's a great way to get to the beach, without having to deal with going to Manhattan then taking an A then waiting for the shuttle at Broad Channel.
Thus bus wasn't that crowded, I'm suprised that more people don't ride this route.
I guess during the summer it's more crowded.
Rockaway Park is a beautiful area, reminds me of Long Beach. Also we passed through Howard Beach (no stops) which also reminds me of Oceanside. That whole area is more like Long Island than Queens.
You can even get in Long Island radio stations like WKJY,WLIR, and even WBLI. Sure beats listening to boring/full of talk NYC radio.
You are right about the Q53 in the summer(especially Sat and Sun )That bus is packed by the time it gets to Queens Center.Also in the summer you see more TMC RTS-06's than Orion V CNG's.(that and once in a blue moon a GMC RTS-04.This is a far cry from the TDH-5307's GM fishbowls they used to run (the 700's not the 600's)
What is the fare today. When my mom used to take me from 61st/Roosevelt to 116th in the Rockaways in the late 50's and early 60's it was .50 one-way .85 RT regardless where you got on or off.
Still remeber riding Old Looks and the first batch of New Looks on this line when the livery was (IIRC) red roof, brown and beige sides and front.
The Q53 is a regular $1.50 fare at all times. I love the Q53 when it is not crowded-meaning anytime but the summer. If I'm going to Queens Center Mall, since I live in Woodside, I take the Q53 instead of taking the dreaded Q60 which picks up everybody from grandma's grandma. I like in particular the strips between Howard Beach to Rockaway the most. It's the chance of the bus seeing "what is has got on the open road." The Q21 is also a great bus ride once the bus arrives for you to take. I saw the schedule for the Q21-whoa! Almost a 2 hour wait in the winter time just for a bus?! DAMN!!! In the summer I believe it's 50 minutes apart. Minus well eliminate the route if you're going to have the bus that far apart.
Q53#3005Gary
Q21#240Gary
Forgot to mention in original post that the .50 one-way .85 RT was in the days when the regular fare was .15. Guess it was the city's way of subsidizing a private back then Bm (before Mabstoa)
Well even though it's an express run the fare is $1.50 (all unlimited Metrocard accepted).
People say the Rockaways are removed but they still have it better than people who ride LI Bus. The Q53 runs often and the buses seem pretty reliable. Plus they have the shuttle and A train. Heck it still beats Sea Cliff.
Also I noticed that the Orion CNG's at Queens Surface and Triboro seem to run a bit smoother than our brand new Orion CNG's with the same engine. Must be the poorer maintainance at LI Bus.
Also there seems to be a rash of magic marker graffitti in LI Buses. It is disgusting.
Well, awhile back, I posted that Metro was taking delivery of yet more D40LF buses and that some of the 32xx buses were in service. Now, the 33xx buses are beginning to pop up and you know what tha means. I saw about 40 RTS buses sitting at McCarty St. today. Among them was RTS 2150, my namesake. I can't believe he was pulled. Also among the classics were 1912, 1922, 1927, 2145, 2153, 2027 and various other buses I had come to love. I think 2150 will find a good home as he wasn't stripped like some of the other buses such as 2119. Also, Metro is retiring 8 year old Mercedes Benz built suburban buses and a few more 30ft. Ferronis.
But here's the juiciest part. In a fiels seperate from the RTS, sat 15 buses. Five were 1998 C40LF buses (4097-4101), five were L40LF (4102-4106) buses, a 40 yr. old GM New Look (185), an Eagle 05 (1200), an Eagle 10 (1322), a Flxible Metro A (2281), and the best of all, Grumman 870 Model A/Metro Model A Hybrid No. 1627. The bus HAD BRAND NEW ALUMINUM RIMS!!!!!! No Hybrid was outfitted with these rims when they were in service. The wheels were spotless and gleaming! The paintjob was fresh all the way to the exhaust pipe! That bus was beautiful! It's tires were also different form any of the tires I had ever seen on a bus. It was amazing to see a 1600 series hybride like this 3 and a half year after their retirement! Can you believe it! This is a 22 year old bus looking better than our brand new D40LFs! That bus must be worth at least 5,000 dollars or more!
I still can't believe Metro is retiring 10 three year old buses. They're supposed to be going to another TA. I wish them well.
As for 2150, I think a moment of silence is in order. This bus was a workhorse until it's untimely death.......
Farewell 2150, whatever company buys you will be blessed.
Let me take a page from Gary's book....
GM Model 5303 No. 185 - 16 Memorial (This is the sign it's stuck on)
Eagle 05 No. 1200 - 202 Kuykendahl
Eagle 10 No. 1322 - 246 Bay Area
Flxible Metro A No. 2281 - 52 Hirsch
GMC RTS 04 No. 2150 - 2 Bellaire
GMC RTS 04 No. 2150 - 65 Bissonnet
GMC RTS 04 No. 2150 - 82 Westheimer
GMC RTS 04 No. 2150 - 53 Westheimer Ltd.
GMC RTS 04 No. 2150 - 132 Harwin Exp.
Grumman Flxible 870/Metro Model A Hybrid No. 1627 - 2 Bellaire/Alief
GMC RTS 04 No. 2150 - July 1983 to March 2001
Is it the heat that causes these buses to be retired so soon? Not necessarily the 1998's which you say are heading to another property, but it seems like some fairly "new" ones get the axe fairly quickly.
I do like the the Houston paint scheme. I have a Road Champs Flxible and the diagonal stripes look great.
I don't know. The RTS always did well in the heat. Even the Flxibles. I think the dual fuel motors can't handle the heat as well as the diesel only engines.
That leaves about 12-15 Mercedes buses and a little under 50 Ferronis.
Sorry for your loss, 2150...
On a brighter note (I hope), do you know what kind of buses Metro used during Wrestlemania Sunday? I had heard that Metro deployed over 400 buses in park-and-ride shuttle service to the Astrodome. I'm just curious as to which models held the bulk of the service.
Houston being the show off city that they are only puts their best equipment in service for special events. Here's what they used....
New Flyer D40LFs
New Flyer Viking
Neoplan Artics (Every Type)
Ikarus Transit and Suburban (Not Many)
Mercedes (Not Many)
Neoplan 45ft. Suburban
Plus, since Metro lets other private companies partcipate there were..
Older MCIs
MCI D4500s
MCI E4500s
MCI G4500s
And Varios Vintages of Eagles
Plus European and South American Coaches such as Van Hool and Marco Polo
I feel your pain, RTS. I don't mean to rub it in, but I'm glad my favorite Neoplan, 8698, is being restored as a museum bus.
This is one of two GO Transit Fishbowls now part of Chet Fermeneck's (Hope I spelled his name right) Central Jersey Bus Vintage Fleet:
Enjoy
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Picture not coming thru !
Bill "Newkirk"
Right-click on the icon where the picture should be
Go to "Properties"
Highlight the URL of the picture, right-click and select "Copy"
Paste URL into the "Address" field of the browser and add a ? to the end
Press enter & cross your fingers :)
That works for IE5, anyway. @#!$& Geocities...
Tried that, but got a "can't find page" notice.
Bill "Newkirk"
Doesn't work with NC 4.5
Who'd ever think that a Nova could pull of a Flxible Style Lean?
"The Real Deal" - The Right Side Air Bellows Went Dead!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Too funny....hey, that almost makes an improvment on the bus...it's got that groovy Grumman thing going! Note to the NOVA: Shake it, baby!
-F.
I have had many Nova doing that before I started up the bus up after it sat for the night. One of them was even 9266 when it and I were at Ulmer Park. All it means is that the air leaked out of the air bags over night. Now if that happen while it was in service I would have to remove it from service and drive it back to the depot very slowy.
Robert
OH yeah I know it was the bellows, But I thought is crazy cool because it looked like my favorite bus, The Flxible METRO!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Last night on the tv show The King of Queens one scene takes place in midtown and in the background is a grumman parked with the mta paint scheme except that the black on the ac cover was painted white. You could just see the grumman name on the upper left corner on the back.(more like the shape of it than seeing what it said.)
Eww...that's TERRIBLE! I think they look HORRIBLE with all-white rear ends. It takes away from their styling in a terrible way. Ours were repainted like that here in Roanoke to match our Gilligs shortly before they were retired. Great...just what we needed....Gillig 870s. Yeech.
Fortunately at our museum we salvaged one and repainted it to its original color scheme with the black around the windows; now it looks even newer than the 1994 Phantoms that replaced it. And everyone agrees with us, even those not familiar with buses. In fact, during one of our runs, I pointed out to a tourist that one of the Gilligs rolling by was what replaced the bus we were riding on that day. He immediately commented that our Grumman looks "more elegant" than those any day. :)
-F.
For those of you that want to know if the 35 Foot Flxible Metro is in service. Yes it is in service. Can be Mainly fround on RTE 25J. That is the end of that.
25J Flxible MetroB#9489
Actually they're on many Arlington Division routes. For those who don't know - this group of Metro's are a bit unusual because they 35 feet long and 102 inches wide. This means that WMATA has the Flxible Metro in every size except 35' X 96".
Wayne
Like the 23's and 25's?
This means that WMATA has the Flxible Metro in every size except 35' X 96".
Are you sure about that? I don't know that they have any 30102 Flxs.
You are correct. There are no 30102 Flxibles on the WMATA roster.
I never heard of a 30 foot bus being offered as a 102 inch width.
Wayne
I never heard of a 30 foot bus being offered as a 102 inch width.
Well, it's true that most 30 foot buses are 96" or less, but 30x102 buses do exist. Gillig offers the Phantom in a 30x102 model, and I know of dozens of Flxible Metro 30102's, for instance the 12 in Lansing, Michigan (450-461). Also, the companies that offer 30 foot low floor models produce 30x102 buses as almost all low floors are 102" wide.
OK - I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.
Wayne
We have those 35' 102" Flx Metros at Blacksburg Transit, where I used to work. After being around those all day, they sure do make our preserved Valley Metro Grumman 870 (35' 96") look skinny!
-F.
I ment the 25's. NOT the 25J
i dont know that they was 35foot fixible!!
Oh, thank God. I love 35' Bs. Hope I can get up there to ride one soon!
-F.
If you do come up to ride them, they only run during the week as the Arlington garage just provides weekday service. Best place to ride one would be at either Ballston or Rosslyn. Pentagon may have a few, but they don't operate many routes out of the Arlington division. Most there are from Four Mile Run or Royal Street.
From MOBILIZING THE REGION #311 (http://www.tstc.org):
NEW SERVICE FOR CROWDED LI BUS ROUTES
Long Island Bus officials announced in the beginning of April service increases on nine routes experiencing significant crowding due to record ridership levels. Last year, the system served 30 million riders. On September 27, 2000, 111,345 riders used LI Bus, the highest daily ridership total in the agency's 28-year history.
Although considering service reductions last year as a result of funding cuts by Nassau County, the agency has managed to continue normal service, and now add service, due to generous New York State supplemental and emergency funding won by State Senator Dean Skelos and Assemblyman Thomas DiNapoli, with the assistance of the Pataki Administration. The increased service includes new Sunday trips on the Hempstead N15, more reverse-commute departures on the N20 Hicksville-Flushing route, and service increases for N22/22A Hicksville-Jamaica, N24, N33, N57, N70, N73, and N91 JFK Flyer.
Even with the increases, the system will still struggle to serve its growing ridership. Other crowded routes include the N35 and N45 to and from Nassau Community College and the N4 and N6 to and from Queens.
Senator Skelos recently warned that state emergency aid to Long Island Bus was no permanent solution to the system's funding crisis. Without restored funding from Nassau County, the agency is unlikely to be able to maintain these recent gains and respond to further
needs in coming years. However, another benefit of LI Bus' action is that any attempt to repeal of the service increases with further reductions in county aid to mass transit can be laid at Nassau County's feet, where the county executive and legislature are both up for election this year.
Note the Skelos/Pataki givith & takith away comment. Lets hope the increased service can be retained.
Mr t__:^)
It better! LI Bus is my only way around!
Any cuts would probably hit me so hard I'd wind up in the psych ward, and THAT would be horrible!
OK, anyone up for frying Gulotta! I'm hungry. :-0
Frying would be too good for him, how about a barbecue ?
I'll let you turn the handle while I apply the sauce ;-)
Mr t
LI bus seems to get very high reverse commuting. Taking the N21 bus to Flushing in the morning I see packed eastbound buses.
And in the late afternoon/early evening buses going to Flushing are packed.
Mainly because most riders are of low income and have housekeeping jobs in Nassau county, but live in Queens.
Last night my collegue and I took a trip to the Command Bus Garage. Upon our arrival we saw three ex-NYCT TMC RTS natural gas buses. 8398, 8399 and 8567. Expect to see these buses repainted and placed into service on the B100 very soon. Yes, we will be posting pictures on transitworld.org by the end of the week.
Peace,
Kevin
Transit World New York
What will they be in service at Command as? I assume 8398 will be 4900, 8399-4901, 8567-4902 or will they keep these numbers?
B100#4902/#8567Gary
I saw her in the last 30 minutes on the inner loop of the beltway at mile 31.5 (just east of Georgia Avenue). Anyone know where she might be headed? 4404 is a SmartMover bus, based out of Montgomery. The sign read 14A NOT IN SERVICE.
Most likely senario is that is probably on its way to the Central Maintenance Facility from Montgomery or Driver Training, or could be deadheading to a line beginning. The 14A reading is most likely from the last operator that had the bus and the existing operator just didn't clear the signage!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
What line beginning? SmartMover buses only appear to run on the 14A-D and the J8 and J9. Have you seen them anywhere else since the start of SmartMover in late 1998?
Yep, I've seen them operate on the J2, Q2, Y8, Z8, Z11. Last time I was down there, the operate I talked to operating the 14D had said the the 14D will be reduced to a Rush Hour only route. This means that more and more that the SmartMover buses (Orion 05.501 #4400-4412) will be appearing on other lines than the 14 Series routes. I have a pic of #4405 on the J2 and #4408 on the Z11.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I have yet to see this.
A friend of mine took the 5A to Dulles and said she got a suburban but didn't note the bus number. I don't think the 5A runs from Montgomery though.
5A is probably of a DC garage (I would guess Western), since it operates between Downtown DC and Dulles Airport.
I heard it would be Southern. One of the BusTalkers said they saw an Orion V at Rosslyn for training for the route. Could Ballston/1C or Chris help us here?
Actually, I thought it was a Southern Ave. route since one time I saw a Southern Ave. Flxible come through Rosslyn, but everytime I've been driving on I-66 and see the 5A pass by, its a Four Mile Run bus, usually a 42xx Orion V. 4236 was on my bumper when I was entering I-66 from Glebe Road one day. I guess that bus that came through there was just an incidental occurrance, maybe to have them learn several routes in case they have to work the board of another division.
are the 4400 series buses 30ft Orions, or are they late 1990's 40ft Orions. Anyway, what exactly is a SmartMover bus?
The 4400's are from the same series as the 4200 and 4300 series 40' Orion V's. From 4393, I believe to 4412, the buses are equipped with plush coach seating.
SmartMover is a route started in late 1998 as a way to try and get people who travel between MD and VA on the Amercian Legion Bridge to take the bus instead of driving. The routes are 14A-D and a shuttle that operates in the Tysons Corner area, including the Tysons Corner Center, 14T and W. These shuttles use 30' Flxibles that come out of Arlington, while the other ones come out of Montgomery. The 14A and B run between Tysons Corner-Westpark Transit Center and Bethesda Metro and the 14C and D run from Lakeforest Mall to Tysons Corner via Montgomery Mall and the Rockledge Business Park. Some 14D's begin only at the Rockledge Business Park. There used to be a 14M that would run during the midday and every hour from 8PM to 10PM and serve the Tysons Corner Center, but due to low ridership, the 14A took over the midday 14M and the evening trips after 7PM were eliminated. I once took a 9PM bus out of Bethesda once and was the only one on it.
More people seem to take it from MD to VA in the morning and VA to MD in the evening as there isn't ample park and ride space in VA to get people to ride it to MD in the morning. I wouldn't be surprised to see this thing eliminated or severly cut back even more as those that are funding it are getting antsy. Of course, VA isn't allowing the buses to use the shoulders to bypass traffic the way that MD does, so that's a big problem.
Its the reason the routes aren't popular. Since you don't gain much by sitting on a bus in traffic, why take the bus?
WMATA have most of their 30 Foot Flxibles now painted in Ride On paint job. BUT I do think that about 4 30 Foot Flxibles is still in WMATA paint job. BUT I was going to ride one when I in DC. So I might go down there and Ride one.
Good luck in finding one not in a Ride-On scheme.
This morning I took a trip down to our (NJT) Vehicle Acceptance Facility and upon my arrival, a whole new batch of MCI Cruisers & Coaches, YES COACHES, have arrived!
Here is the following:
MCI D4000 Cruisers
Carefree Units: 8451, 8452, 8453
Academy Units: 8563, 8567, 8568, 8569, 8570
Trans Bridge Units: 8556, 8557, 8558, 8559
MCI D4000 Coach (with Lavatory)
NJT: 7531, 7532, 7533, 7534, 7535, 7536, 7537, 7538, 7539, 7540, 7541, 7783, 7784, 7785, 7786, 7787, 7788, 7789, 7790, 7791, 7792, 7793, 7794, 7795, 7796, 7798, 7799, 7801.
Pictures of some of these buses will be placed on TransiTALK's Sunday Night Update!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I suppose the TBL units will replace their four 5400's. (5410-5413?)
Where does Carefree operate ?
I have yet to see one on NJT route 114
The Ironbound MCIs will be the last ones replaced from what I heard, so Route 111, 112, 113, 114, 116 and other 100s operated out of Ironbound may not see new Cruisers for a while
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
That's surprising that Ironbound will be the last ones to get new buses, as NJT historically saves the last of the new buses for South Jersey (ie. Washington Twp, Newton Av/Camden, and Egg Harbor). That's probably where all the Washington Twp 51xx-units are right now. Besides the D4000s from Newton Av/Camden operating on the 409 and 317, the only MCIs I've spotted are the MC-9A buses that were probably ex-Oradell. I guess I'll be seeing the 78xx buses on the 551 trips shortly.
At first, I was surprised Newton Av got their buses this early, but then again, they did have the Eagles, and those were the first ones to go.
The only Ironbound cruiser routes are the 11x-series that operate to Union County (111-117).
:That's surprising that Ironbound will be the last ones to get new buses, as NJT historically saves the last of the new buses for South Jersey (ie. Washington Twp, Newton Av/Camden, and Egg Harbor). That's probably where all the Washington Twp 51xx-units are right now:
5137 is wrecked at the lot with the first of the soon to be retired MC-9As and 870s.
I remember what happened to 5137. It was wrecked in service while on the 313 somewhere in Dennis Twp, Cape May County (or somewhere thereabouts). The driver apparently suffered a heart attack and died at the wheel. I saw the pictures from Trevor's web site. The entire front end of the bus was totaled.
The north Jersey newspapers carried pics of an Egg Harbor tow truck dragging 5137 out of the side of the house it eventually hit
When I first saw the pictures I thought it was struck by flying debris from a truck.
Actually the 51xx are operating out of Howell!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I thought the 409 was assigned to Mercer/Hamilton as their only cruisers ?
Why have the 30' RTS's vanished from the 600 and 605 on weekends lately ?
There are no cruisers at Hamilton/Mercer garage. It's strictly Novas and Metro Ds. Newton Av might be storing the buses there for the peak hour 409 expresses from Trenton to the Malls and Willingboro, but that's the only thing I can think of.
As for the 30 ft Novas that were supposedly at Hamilton, my guess would be that ridership has improved to the point where they've outgrown the 30 ft Novas. Then again, I haven't been up to Trenton in quite some time.
On a Saturday, I can't believe that.
BTW, the 605 runs 75 minute intervals now, and the 600 does so on weekends. This cuts 2 trips per day.
They haven't disappeared, they just went South (Jersey that is).
I think NJ Transit made a mistake by ordering those buses.
It seems they're constantly being shifted around because no garage or contract carrier wants them, probably because no matter what route they're on, they become overcrowded!
Why didn't they order 35 foot buses instead? Or they could've just canned this little add-on, would've been a lot cheaper. Maybe they got a special deal on them? Order 500 regular buses, get 80 small ones free?
35foot and 40 foot buses dont mixed
You're right about N.J. Transit failing to order 35'ers. IMO, the best place for the 30' buses in at Atlantic City for the jitney runs (but I do not know if N.J. Transit wons the runs).
That's too bad; they're cute. I wanted to ride one on a 600-route.
From the looks of things, the DOB could very well be backing out of the Orion 7 Hybrid and CNG order since the Orion 7 was rejected by the TA. Apparently during testing, the Orion 7 fell apart on the shaker table. Tisk Tisk Tisk!
Also the option order for the 140 Articulateds that were slated for Quill and 126th has been canceled. Apparently there is major issues with the Articulateds such as failing HVACs and other major problems. So the TA retracted its order for 140 Articulateds and may very well not order and more Articulateds.
Meanwhile, the DOB is short buses and are running out of buses to buy. This could me 1 of 2 things:
1) We could see many more buses resurrected from the dead! YIKES!
or
2) The TA may be looking at other builders finally (Left on the plate is NABI, Neoplan, and Gillig) or they may return to Nova after saying they would never order anymore RTSs, or back to Orion for more Orion 5s. Personally I would love to see NABI finally make a statement in the NYC Metro Area.
Which ever way the TA decides to go, its gonna be tight for a while.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
NO MORE ARTICS!!!
Get more Orions. If the MTA vowed not to buy the RTSs, they can get the Orion V which is one of the best buses in my opinion.
That's great news Trevor! Now the TA will learn what happens when you abandon what made you great! Personally, I'd love to see some D40LFs in NYC. But we all know what happens when to low floors when it snows. Looks like NYCT may be going back to Nova on all fours.
Viva la RTS!
BTW, what is a shaker table.
A Shaker Table is a big table system used to test the vibration stability of a bus.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Oh my, that is bad. Looks like Orion may have just shot their heads off...
What is Orion coming to?? I think the Orion VI is great and comfy, but the engine makes it rattle a bit. I have mixed emotions on the Orion V, though. I'l have to ride a new one to clear up my opinions.
See, NYC has had problems with every bus (40 and 60ft. Transit Buses) manufactuer that didn't produce RTS or 5300 series New Looks. First there was Grumman, now Orion and New Flyer. It would have been nice for all 500 or so of the Orions to come in and then have another Grumman disaster. That would have just driven the point home right there. Oh well. NYC being the stubborn city they are may opt for NABI or New Flyer D40LFs before they go back hands and knees to NovaBus.
Expect to see ALOT of bus reactivations and prolonged life of the rest of the 1985-87 RTS buses. I don't think NYC will wait for Orion and NF to redesign their buses (which could take months or years) so they lost out on that business.
Oh, that's awful. In a way I hope that NYC gets NABIs as long as they give those buses the black trim they need to look decent. NYC has a nasty way of not adding black trim to buses when it's necessary (eg, the RTSs). And doesn't NYC already have New Flyer Low Floors, although they may be CNG buses? Well, you can't blamd NYC for wanting something new, despite the fact that it is known as the RTS city, or was known anyway.
Y'know?
Maybe the NABI artics that the TA can order SHOULD look more like the Baltimore MTA's 60 ft buses, which seem like wannabe TA buses. Just don't make them like SEPTA's NABI 416's or their Neoplan AN460's, PLEASE! I mean, they're good, but not too great. I rode them yesterday in Philly. They have Stop Request pull strings like the GMC fishbowls and a white interior like their 1989 Neoplan AN440 Transliners (UGH!).
Well, so much for those Orion VII's. I was so looking forward to seeing them until I heard the news. Maybe if they want hybrids and CNG's, they should stick with standard-floor hybrid buses(if any exist), CNG buses, or even a low-floor bus model like Gillig's Advantage in UTA Salt Lake City. I dunno, just a thought.
Now, whaddawedoo? (What do we do?)
Maybe we can order buses like CTA's fuel cell buses and use THOSE in NYC rather than the CRAP that Orion would have sold us.
Anyway, that's what I think.
Y'Know, I don't really see anything wrong with the white interiors of those SEPTA NABIs that you so despise.The only thing I never really liked was the metallic interior. But white interiors are nice and comfy in my opinion.Plus, I love the "carpeted" red back of the bus (in the AN460's case, blue). I'm not sure if I eve rode a NABI bus that didn't have the pull cord.However, the TA is not allowed to make them like SEPTA's (that's SEPTA's specs and SEPTA's specs only). Do Miami Dade buses use push strips or pull cords, I don't remember that well. Also, what about the WMATA Ikaruses? Baltimore has a wooden interior like the WMATA, right? According to what I know of NYC buses, I think the interior would be black, although I haven't ridden any bus other than an RTS in NY (why must the black be on the inside and not on the outside as well). I think the interiors of the Orions are white though, or are they wooden? Hmm... Anyway, what exactly is a hybird bus?
[I'm not sure if I eve rode a NABI bus that didn't have the pull cord. However, the TA is not allowed to make them like SEPTA's (that's SEPTA's specs and SEPTA's specs only).]
(1) I doubt SEPTA is going to complain about the TA using some of their specs.
(2) That probably explains why SEPTA uses buttons for it's doors instead of the more traditional handle. I think that started with the first Neoplan Pennliners.
I know SEPTA wouldn't complain, but I would, lol. Anyway, I had thought that the NABIs used handles as well. The Neoplans always used buttons though. Hey, what is the difference between a Pennliner and Transliner?
AFAIK the "Pennliner" was named so because of the 1000 bus order Penndot placed on behalf of the TA's across the state. There were some differences in SEPTA's buses (class AK, 8285-8434?) from those that went to the other TA's, but otherwise they are Neoplan Transliners, maybe before Neoplan had even given them the name. Does anyone know if the order had anything to do with Neoplan having a facility in Honey Brook?
Okay, now what are the difference between classes, like BP and BM and AK and EZ and such, or is it just the year? Also, what is this AN440A business? What is the A for? Is there a B?
it just the type of model.
such as septa nabi 416.08ta
maryland type in nabi 416.10-001 - 050
I see what you're saying I almost thought the same thing, but the TA at the end of 416.08 refers to the serial numbers of those buses, The different classes (AK, BD, EI, etc.) of the SEPTA Neoplans do not.
So what is the difference between the different classes? And what about the A at the end of AN440A, and now, what is this serial number at the end of the bus designation, like 416.08? Is that a production number?
The two letter class code - AK, BD, etc. - simply represent when the order was built. I don't really know about the "A" in AN-440A, but this is what I know about the model number:
AN - American Neoplan
4 - Transliner designation
35/40/60 - length
Most of the Pat Neoplans had a little emblem by the front door that read Pennliner.It was seen right by the builders plate.These buses are vanishing fast as new buses are placed in service.The 1983 models went from 3512-3864.Out of all these only 3648 remains in service.The 1986 Neoplans went from 3900-3959.There are about five of these still left in service.There were 35ft. Neoplans that went from 1600-1644.These are 1983's also and I'd say about 16 of these are still around.Overall they were considered good buses except for the rusting out of most of our 1983 models.They are not lift equipped and Pat wants them off the roster fast just like our last four MC9 buses.
I know that EZ have a Backdoor wheelchair lift. BUT I not too shure about the others haveing a backdoor wheelchair lift.
I think the EI has it too. So did the AK
The AK, EI, and EZ Neoplans have the wheelchair lift in the rear. The artics (officially designated by Neoplan as "OQ") have the lift in the front.
so as the nabi's.
They should stay with NOVA BUS and buy the LFS. Here in ALBANY, they are very nice.The ORIONS on the other hand arent so nice.
The RTSs and BLITZs were and are great busses. The Orion Vs are OK. The MCIs are great as long as there are no standees. The D60s seem OK. There is one problem that I see with them though and it has to do with snow - the accordion billow in the center - the bus may slide back and forth like a dog wagging its tail. And what was said about C40LFs and D40LFs is true - they can get stuck in the snow from the low height between the road and bus.
Now considering what was mentioned concerning 8398,8399,8567 being transferred to DOT - not a smart move if the busses are going to be needed.
Now my question. When the busses are scrapped and sent to NIMCO or others, are they kept whole or are they crushed? If they are kept whole, then MIDWEST BUS and ENY CMF may be busy real soon as REMANUFACTURING the RTSs. I still agree on remanufacturing.
Also can someone explain why NYC will not order from NOVA BUS anymore? I see no problems with the RTSs. They have been around for well over 20 yrs and some of them were at least 18yrs old when removed from service and they were still running strong.
If to reactivate from storage, there is at most right now 100 busses in storage. And there are a lot more Artics than Storage Busses.
From what I understand, the reason why NYC won't order anymore RTS buses is because of NovaBus's questionable aftermarket practices. They'll build and ship the bus, but getting further support can be sometimes difficult. Plus, I think NYC was tired of RTS. They had over 3000 RTS when they made the statement. RTS had been replacing RTS for years.
As for NovaBus RTS types, NYCs are made out of cheap fiberglass I am told. Nova still makes them with stainless steel, but all of NYCs models are fiberglass, most likely an NYC specification. NYC should stop being so cheap. From what I hear the 8000 series TMC buses are the strongest RTS ever built as their frames were built stronger than the GMC counterparts. Most of this info I am passing on by people who posted it on this site.
I am also for remanufacturing, and that's what NYCT may go for if they have to. It'll most likely be a 25,000 dollar cosmetic overhaul with 50,000 dollars per engine and transmission. It'll be a toal of 75,000 per bus. Two remaufactured RTS would be 150,000 dollars, beating out the price of an Articualted bus by 300,000 dollars plus about 20-05 more seats.
This can go either way for the Orion Vs. The TA may be more wary of them and more may go into storage. It's highly doubtful though. The stored Orions will most likely be reactivated as the TA feels the crunch of the bus shortage this fall.
As for NovaBus RTS types, NYCs are made out of cheap fiberglass I am told. Nova still makes them with stainless steel, but all of NYCs models are fiberglass, most likely an NYC specification. NYC should stop being so cheap. From what I hear the 8000 series TMC buses are the strongest RTS ever built as their frames were built stronger than the GMC counterparts. Most of this info I am passing on by people who posted it on this site.
I'm not a mechanic, and I don't know much about the particulars here, but I can tell you that the TMC RTS "feels" strong, and drives "tightly" even after 11 years in service. The turning ratio remains, the suspension holds, and the overall drivability of the bus is superior to any other RTS manufactured (including these new NOVAs).
Of course the farebox may rattle against the body, and there may be a bellows leak, but this is par for the course, and nothing a little maintenence can't repair (if they were repairing these things).
They also have the most reliable WC lift.
For future orders the TA should go with NFI C&D40HF's,Orion V's cng & diesel and take a shot with the NABI 416 (cng and diesel as well.Plus this would be the case to test NABI 436 artrics and see what they can do.As for Neoplans ,I thought TA wasn't buyinng them due too past test that didn't work.(Gillags forget about it look at LIBUS nuff said)
Don't scrap 1740, 3833, 3869 and 3967 just yet! They may be back to a depot near you real soon.
Q17#1740Gary
Looks like PA1767 will be tearing it up on the X68 once again. Look out Manhattan!
X68 No. PA1767Jason
In a way the Novas look like who did it and ran. I saw 4929 and 4936 on the Q46 today and there's "rot" marks clearly visible on them. Black is right on the lower bulkhead. They look like hell. They run rattly and like hell so no wonder why MTA rejected Novas. And that's another reason why I see a lot of GMC Buses on the Pike in the AM than Novas. Yesterday GMC's outnumbered Novas 16-2.
Second-New Flyers Artics-Some of those look like they went through a war. First order-Quill trying to put them in the best shape as they could but they still look and run like hell. Now the order has been rejected. Guess CS will never see those in their depot.
Orions-shoeboxes with wheels-they're getting repowered and they're not only slowing down to 40mph but they look horrible.
New Flyer C40LF, GMC and TMC are the 3 best buses out there. Honorable mention go to the MCI. A rush delivery here causes these buses to be really messed up. Bring back the GMC RTS beyond 1985!
Q46#1773Gary
B61#823Gary
Q88#8391Gary
The TA digs their own holes with rush deliveries and inconclusive testing. For a city that sees such bad weather during the winter, you'd think they'd have a fleet that would be ready for anything. Yet, you have slip and slide Nova RTS, out of control Artics, and C40LFs that get stuck in snow and have to be pulled from service. The TA ordered fiberglass RTS! WTF!? It's cheapness like this that creates chaos and bus shortages. They're going to have to do an overhaul on those Novas very soon. It looks like all of the stored RTS and Orions will be back in service for the summer and possibly more plastic RTS will be hitting the streets in 2002. I think the TA is too wary to try anything else now. The body count...
Grumman - Bad Frame
Orion V - Unreliable, slow, and built shoddily
New Flyer D60HF - Major winter operation problems
New Flyer C40LF - Good for summer and non wintry weather only
MCI - No Standee Room, Bad W/C access
Orion VII - Fell apart
You could say the plastic RTS belong on the list, but they're no major complaints on the product, just the support. But these RTS will be the Orion Vs of the RTS fleet. Without a good rehab, they won't make it past 14 years.
I haven't read the replies, but personally, I couldn't be happier. Articulated buses cut runs, cut overtime, and lower seniority (you don't need an extra bus or operator if you have an artic in service). They pay a mere 0.60 cents per hour more to operate, for doing just about twice the amount of work (or should I say, transporting twice as many people).
To the articulated order, I say: Good riddance!
Looks like Orion and the "but New York" policy thrust upon the TA & DOT is about to backfire big time. It is amazing to see how shoddy the Orion V's in the 100-300 range look, as well as how rattly they are. The RTS's of the era definitely feel a bit tighter.
With respect to New Flyer, in addition to the failing HVAC, what are the other problems with the artics? Is it a structural problem that is similar to the newest Nova RTS's? I wonder if the TA considered the New Flyer Invero, or for that matter is anyone even running that coach? What does this mean for any potential future orders from New Flyer?
I for one would love to see NABI make an entry into the NYC market. I think that it would be a welcome change, and certianly if their buses can withstand the streets of Baltimore (home of "lets fix a pothole by shoving a huge metal plate over it), then NYC should not be a problem.
Perhpas it's time to consider taking some of the excess Orion & RTS Express coaches and converting them to local seating to gain the capacity needed for the local runs. Future orders of express coaches could either be the MCI D4500/New Flyer Viking OTR coaches, or maybe the one door Orion V (ala GBL's Orions acquired from NYBS) or RTS-08 WFD with the wheelchair lifts at the front.
Don't cancel the last remaing 1982 RTS contest just yet. At this rate, it looks like those bad boys may see their 20th birthday afterall.
That's VERRY BAD News you have there.
Now the passengers on M15 would have to deal with JAM PACKED Buses until MTA gos with a Articulated order. BUT here's what MTA should do.
1. Make the Orion7 Order into a Orion6 Order.
2. Send 140 Orion7 CNG's to GBL instead.
3. Maybe WMATA will take that Order on New Flyer D60's and Replace the MAN's that bonce alot on DC Streets.
4. What MTA Should did was made the order into D60LF Order if they have problems with the D60's.
5. Maybe WMATA will turn down the C40LF Order and Take the Orion7's.
Well.
The Gilligs. Won't make it in New York City. The Neoplans. Maybe but some people in LA saying that the Neoplans are made out of Fiberglass.So MTA won't even go with Neoplan.The NABI's.HELL YES to NABI. NABI makes good buses and NJ Transit is going to get Articulateds from them and I should say that the Very First Order would be the Articulateds. Then the Low Floor NABI's. I do have to say this that the Suburbans will have to work now the Weekends on Longer Local Routes. And the OLDER buses and the Rush Hour Buses will have to work Hard and Drivers will be forced to work longer hours and work more days. Now this is VERY BAD.
About number 3, the MANs are already replaced with NABI articulateds, I never see any MANs in service anymore. With number floor, wouldn't D60LFs be like the worst thing for the MTA, since they are low floors that would get stuck in the snow and would slide all over the place? Also, I thought the WMATA was already gettin their own order of Orion 7s, since the Orion 6s were already problematic? I have nothing against NABIs bein a part of the NYC fleet except that the MTA will probably leave the buses white without the black trim, and that certainly takes away greatly from the effect of NABIs.If NYC gets NABIs and when NJ Transit gets NABIs that'll mean that every major transit authority I know of has NABI buses, which'll be pretty cool. But I heard that NABI buses were bad, at least in Philly, and SEPTA didn't like them. That's why they only have 400 rather than 600 with the optional 200 extra. Plus, I heard that Neoplans are prefered over the NABI buses. But, back then they were Ikarus Americans, anyway, maybe they are much better now. Anyway, I don't think Orion VIs will be available once the Orion VII is out. The VIs will suffer the same fate as the Is.
WMATA is still running MAN's. The ones still running are the 1983 MAN's. The 1979 MAN's where the ones Replace with NABI's back in 1995.
70 MAN Artic#5200
Well, where are the MANs? I never see them anywhere! I wouldn't mind them being replaced with more NABIs in the OLD SCHEME, but I wonder how a New Flyer would look in a WMATA paint scheme.
I saw MAN's on the X2 recently. I'm sure some pop up on the 70 and the Q2 and J2 occasionally as well.
I haven't seen a NABI in the new scheme yet. I've seen one MAN, 5118 in the new paint version, though.
I don't think they operate on the 70's because I'm relatively sure Northern Division does not have any MAN artics. I could be wrong but I believe most of the MAN artics are Montgomery and some are at Bladensburg also. In addition to the X2,Q2,J2 I see then regularly on Z11 and other peak hour Z's. The Silver Spring Metro station is the best place to spot the MAN's. During rush hours you'll see plenty of them there.
Wayne
the man artic has been in the wmata from a long time
Northern has artics.
Now, I'm probably silly for asking this question since I never usually rode this during weekday rush, but since when did the 70 become a fully articulate bus route? I remember riding it when i was little and although I may have ridden one I usually got those beloved Flxibles. Same with the J2, I dont' think I ever rode an articulated on that route. Is it the same situation as SEPTA where when they got the new artics, they suddenly used artics on a lot more routes?
I think during the weekends they use some 40' buses on the 70 and keep the artics to mainly weekday use. Its been several years that they've done this from what I can remember.
[Is it the same situation as SEPTA where when they got the new artics, they suddenly used artics on a lot more routes?]
I don't know about Metrobus, but I can answer on the SEPTA front:
Up until the Neoplan artics arrived, the only artic lines were Allegheny routes 9, 27, 48, and 60. And even then, the artics only saw weekday service along with some occasional Saturday service on the 48. When the El was shut down between Center City and Frankford, the artics would be put into service on the I-95 express buses between City Hall and Frankford (via Bridge St, with a stop at Torresdale Av). In the last years of the Volvos, that's what they were pretty much relegated to. Even during the week, a 40-ft bus would show up on the 9 and 27, though mainly during the evening hours.
That changed when the Neos arrived. The 33, which had seen only Neoplans and RTS buses since the NABIs were allegedly too wide to handle some parts of 22 St (which is rubbish, since the new artics are 102" wide, same as the NABIs), started to get the new buses. In fact, the 33 was one of the first lines to see the new artics when they started coming in late in 1999, as did the 65 (which is split with Callowhill).
The 6, which was at Midvale, was sent to Allegheny, and is now an all artic route. The Midvale routes that see the artics are the C, 18, 22, and 55, though some artics do see service on the peak hour 80 express between Horsham Twp and Olney. Some NABIs occasionally pop up on the 22 and 55, particularly on the short turn trips to Willow Grove.
In fact, an artic was even spotted on the lightly used 77 line between Chestnut Hill and Northeast Philadelphia, via Jenkintown and Glenside. The ridership on the 77 is so low, they are going to put the ElDorados (or even, god forbid, the Breeze vans) on that line. The explaination was that some runs had the 22 and 77 paired up for some strange reason.
they should take all way rt. 77.for low ridership.
i think that septa should get more artics. from neoplan to go to the callohill district.in wast philadelphila.for rt.65,42,21,and
rt 44
There isn't any room at Callowhill to store and maintain articulated buses. The only two depots in the system that are capable are Allegheny and Midvale.
Is the Callowhill depot the one on Vine St? If it is then it looks like there is hardly any room to put more 40ft buses. They are just lined up along the street and in front of the doors.
What about Victory? Surely they have enough romm for the artics, and 108, 124, and 125 could use them (the 124 and 125 is standing room only when they just pull out of 13th & Market and King Of Prussia).
I think the reason why they dont' use artics is because some of the roads are too narrow for articulated buses. At least, in Gulf Millls they are. Also, I never really rode a full 108 bus before anyway.
Believe me, the 108 can fill up in a hurry during rush hours, though since they added service during the weekday mid-days on the 108, the crowding has been reduced somewhat.
the victory district can not even hold the bus they have stores there
Callowhill is being rebuilt.
I'm not certain, but I think a big reason that Neoplan got the SEPTA artic order so easy was that they were the only manufacturer willing to produce a 60-foot by 96-inch bus. I've seen order sheets and fleet rosters from 1999 (in the months immediately before the 7100-7200's were delivered) that had the 155-unit artic order split between widths, 40 102" wide buses and 115 96" wide buses. 7101-7140 were the be the former, 7141-7255 were to be the latter. I rode 7163, which, according to this, should be a narrower bus, but I did not notice a difference in the aisle width. Also, in my opinion, it is very hard to tell whether a bus is 96" or 102" wide just by looking at it from the exterior (that is if you don't already know for a fact that the bus is a certain width.)
So, I'm not sure if the 115 last SEPTA Neo artics are indeed 96" wide or if not. If so, then it would be OK to use them where only the narrower buses can go.
On the 40' bus front, I have a feeling that SEPTA is going to return to Neoplan for more 40096 Transliners. When it comes to building a specialty vehicle (and a 40096 bus is almost a specialty now) Neoplan is the customer's best friend.
It will be interesting to see whether or not NABI will build 96" wide artics for New Jersey Transit to replace the suburban Volvos.
I really don't think that any of the artics are 96". I rode 7209 (the first and only SEPTA artic I have ever ridden) and it seemed to be 102". Maybe it's because I have grown up with 96" Neos, but I can pretty easily see the difference between a 96" and a 102" Neoplan. I guess with the NABIs it was different because they are totally a different type of bus.
The SEPTA Volvo artics were, in fact, 96" wide.
i dont like the new artics because they start out slow but
all sudden it pick up speed.alsp the engine sound much more powerful
with the transmission as a b-500retarder.
they all were 102
The best way to tell if a Neoplan is either 96" or 102" wide is to look at the headlight bezel and the air brake tow Coupling panel; if there is little space between the bezel and panel, it's a 96"er, if there is at least 2 1/2 inches between the two, then it's a 102"er.
The 65 also started gettin the artics when the Neoplans came in. I only started to see the Volvos start regular service when the RNC came to town. They were in the new scheme and everything. Too bad I missed out on riding them, but a friend who has ridden one said there were fumes in these buses.
That's correct about SEPTA's NABI fleet.
Midway through the order, American Ikarus reorganized and became North American Bus Industries. The financial problems with American Ikarus was a factor in SEPTA backing out of it's 200 bus option in 1996.
As stated elsewhere in this thread, NABIs aren't exactly perfect. The 00xx series NABIs that were to be delivered to Baltimore have been delayed to to warranty issues. As of December 2000, only 47 of the scheduled 80 00xx buses were delivered to Md. MTA due to leaks and faulty climate systems.
[The Neoplans. Maybe but some people in LA saying that the Neoplans are made out of Fiberglass.So MTA won't even go with Neoplan.]
The LACMTA Neos may be fiberglass, but SEPTA's Neoplan artics are stainless steel. I'm wondering if that fiberglass was a LACMTA spec.
Are there any other firms building artics? I know Memphis TN had some MAN artics. Is MAN still in business or are they gone to the bus builders factory in the sky.
Does SEPTA have artics- if so who built SEPTA's artics
NO MO' MAN! The only firms building articulateds are the following,
1) New Flyer - D60HF High Floor and the D60LF Low Floor
2) Neoplan - AN460 Transliner
3) NABI - Model 436 High Floor and the Model 60LFW Low Floor
Other than those three firms, they could look overseas but with the Breda fiasco I doubt that seriously.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
SEPTA has had artics for a long time. They had 1984 Volvo artics but they weren't really used in regular service in the 90's, basically for MFL shuttles and charters. Now that SEPTA has the new Neoplan AN460 artics, they are used on a lot more routes, especially the 33.
Not only is MAN still in business, but they are probably one of the biggest bus and commercial vehicle builders in the world. Their buses are very common in Europe and parts of Asia, and they also make bodies and engines for trucks in Europe. It is their American bus business that shut down in 1988. Of course, MAN really got dragged into the American market as a full-fledged bus manufacturer. In the late 70's, MAN's presence was felt by AM General producing buses of the MAN design (the first artics, i.e. old WMATA 5100's). MAN then started producing artics under its own name; I believe they were built in North Carolina. The first rigid MAN buses (Americana 792 SL40102L models) turned up in the US in 1984. Not very many TA's bought the Americanas, but artic sales continued strong through about 1986. After losing an order to build 800 more Americanas for Chicago at the last minute in 1987 (on top of the 362 delivered in 1985), MAN's management in Germany decided that the American market was not worthwhile and ceased operations here. The Americana (40' rigid) was very similar in styling to MAN's European offerings at the time, but I have never seen anything all that close to the American MAN artic design (SG 220, SG 310) in Europe. So I suppose it would still be possible to purchase MAN buses, but not as easy as it was in the 80's.
SEPTA has Neoplan artics, which I really like a lot. They are spacious, well-built, nice looking, and it seems like SEPTA has had no major problems with them.
I like the NABI 436, but the one bone I have to pick with it is that it's more of a 38/22 split where Neoplan and New Flyer artics are closer to a 32/28 split. Although then again, maybe this could help NYC with its artic woes.
CTA recently ordered the first NABI 60LFW's I've heard of.
Neoplan also could produce a 60 foot low floor, but they have not had any orders for such a model yet.
After it was trendy in the early 80's and then the trend died a bit in the early 90's, it seems like articulated buses are making a comeback.
The cancelled order in Chicago, IIRC, was actually halted by a court order, relating to accesibility issues. Then again, that really doesn't explain CTA's narrow RTS fleet.
Yes, I think you are right about the court order that stopped more MAN's. My question is, why didn't CTA just order the additional MAN's with wheelchair lifts? It's not like that was not available.
About the narrow, non-accessible RTS's of CTA, there are only 15 of them and they absolutely needed 96" wide buses for the Lake Street bus route which traveled under the Lake Street El where widths are very tight. The Lake Street bus has since been cut and those buses have been relegated to CTA's new contract service for the University of Chicago.
I really don't know how CTA got away with ordering these few buses non-accessible. They claim that they are too narrow to accommodate a lift and/or wheelchair movement in the bus, but there are lots of 96" wide accessible buses. To my knowledge, this order has been the only exception to the ADA rules since they were enacted in 1990.
We know that the TA also tested a MAN artric in the early 80's (became Beeline 661)How about Volvo are they still making buses for TA's in the states or are they strictly serving European markets now.
I heard that the TA may try out Volvo Artics, I was on vacation in the Dominican Republic recently, and saw Volvo Artics "pusher" type, so this may be a possibility.
I doubt that Volvo will be returning to the US market anytime soon. SEPTA, NJT, and RIPTA were, AFAIK, the only three US customers for Volvo.
Volvo has already returned to the market, they have owned 51% of Nova Bus for the past few years. There was a story in the Financial Times a few weeks ago that they might be talking with Den Oudsten about buying New Flyer as well.
Volvo left the US market after they finished the B-10M (RIPTA + 8590 for SEPTA, and an agency out west I'm not sure of) and B-10M Artic (SEPTA and NJT) orders. Now they own Nova BUS, (through Prevost) so if the TA pushed them hard enough maybe they could work something out, like send over CKD kits of the B-10 and have the final assembly done there. Seems like the TA will be calling up Roswell or Schenectady in the not too distant future huh?
samTrans in San Mateo County, California (suburban San Francisco) has an order of 14 Volvo B10M artics from 1985.
Which leads to this question...under these circumstances, where does the proposed RTS-LF low-floor model stand at this point?
I hope you were joking about Gillig. While the Phantoms may be good for a smaller system (ie. Delaware, Ride-On, and even Rockland County), there is no way that Gillig would commit to a major order for NYC Transit.
I think you were saying that NABI has the inside track for NJT, so perhaps they are an option. However, Baltimore has had a lot of problems with their new batch of buses from NABI (the 00xx series), so I don't know how likely that's going to happen.
Neoplans at the TA sounds intriguing. I recall they were tested, but rejected by the TA many years ago, so it's worth another shot. Bee Line is supposed to get 68 artics from Neoplan, and SEPTA has 155 artics from Neoplan, which despite some early problems with it's brakes, have proven to be solid buses.
After going through the Orion VII fiasco, I doubt that the TA will go back to Orion even for O-V or O-VI buses.
What were the problems between the TA and Nova that ended the dominance of the RTS?
And have the artics been having HVAC problems for a long time, or is it just with this batch?
No I wasn't referring to the NJT order. You heard me right, I HOPE TO GOD THAT THE MTA GOES NABI! Also where did you get that info about the 00 units at BMTA. I was down there this past monday and the operator I'm good friends with said the only deal is the voice annuciation system in which they are working on that problem with Clever Devices right now!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The info was at Adam Paul's web site:
http://transarc.bluemoon.net/
That info was as of two months ago, so the situation has probably improved since then.
The Clever Device system problems lie both mainly with Md.MTA. There are so many variations of the base routes in Baltimore that several different stop listings have to be prepared.
Incidentially, the Clever system is supposed to be retrofitted on about 200 buses, according to a blurb at the Md.DOT web site. This was listed as one of the transit improvements the governor was proposing.
>>>What were the problems between the TA and Nova that ended the dominance of the RTS?<<<
1. The TA had too many RTS (about 3000+ at the tim) and wanted no more for awhile.
2. Nova's support was questionable.
3. The TAs fiberglass specs for the Nova coaches made them weaker than the GMCs and about 2x weaker than the TMCs. Thye aren't holding up well, but are about on par with an Orion coach.
That's what ended RTS dominance.
If NY doesn't want the RTSs, what is going to become of the RTS design?
It's going to go on. There are TAs who will still buy RTS in the near future. Eventually, NYCT may have to go back to the RTS, NABIs are badly built and problematic. At best their an Orion V type of bus, average to below average. Neoplans have failed. New Flyer probably won't get another chance. Orion? Who's that? The Novas may look horrible, but they're absorbing tons of punishment, just not as well as an RTS should. That's what makes them look bad.
Well, as I always say (or am saying now), DC is a Flxible city (or should be, but now is turning to Orion), Philadelphia is Neoplan territory, and NYC is RTS town. That's the way it should be. Miami is obviously a NABI ctiy now.
Interesting note:
I was doing some research on the net, and found this interesting fact about the MARTA (Atlanta) bus fleet. Up until a few years ago, one could also make the point that Atlanta was a Flxible town. Now, however, the MARTA fleet is almost entirely New Flyer, with half of their fleet now CNG powered.
Baltimore and Miami seem to think along the same lines (whether they realize it or not). For many years, both Baltimore and Miami were solid Flxible towns. Baltimore, in fact, had a period between 1993 and 1995 where their entire fleet was Flxible Metros. Then, the NABIs came in.
Miami had a mix of RTS and Metros before the NABI invasion.
I wonder what SEPTA will become after the Neoplans are gone. But who knows, maybe they'll get more Neoplans after the current 40 footers are retired.
Batimore and Miami sure do think alike, they both hve the same make and model subway fleet (more on this in SubTalk).
what about Breada?
Who posted the table of the old and new Bronx numbers? Repost it if possible since that message is now gone from the index.
Is this a problem on city buses? I've seen it on some of the Stengal buses but that's just about it. Never saw it on any of the DOT privates.
But LI Buses seem to have a big problem with magic marker, I'd say close to 50% of the buses have magic marker writing, mostly in the rear of the buses.
Then again, I'd say LI Buses are definately dirtier on average than anything I've seen in the 5 boroughs.
Real shame to see the new 300s get all marked up! :-(
Unfortunately, yes. Magic marker vandals have become rampant on city buses, especially in the past few years. Even worse, here in Roanoke, not only are people marking up the rear seats, but they are also slicing into them with switchblades, removing large chunks of fabric, and ripping out the stuffing. Last summer, a public bulletin was placed inside all of our buses to address the issue, warning that violators would be justly prosecuted. It's
As a result, our new buses will feature vandal-proof hard seats with fabric, which are less comfortable than the padded seats our fair city has been used to for years. It's hard enough to promote the idea of transit without some idiot tearing up our coaches and making them look like a lower form of transportation. What a shame when our TAs and all of society have to pay the debt for what just a few unruly reprobates have chosen to do.
-F.
When the Neoplans came into Baltmore. The Drivers have to put the #'s up with Magic Marker. But why the Drivers in Baltmore have to write the Bus #'s on the dash for?
BZS Neoplan AN440#3700
Does anyone know if PRTC operates on Sunday. I ask because this past Sunday morning I was driving S/B on I-95 just south of the Lorton exit when I spotted a PRTC RTS heading N/B. I noticed that PRTC also has new 40 foot Orion V suburbans. I mean REAL suburbans with real suburban features (one door, parcel racks, individual reading lights).
Wayne
Just like the GBL Orion5 Suburbans.
Do any body have photos of this Transit Complany?
QM18 Orion5 #722
I don't think they operate on weekends at all. Its possible they were moving some of the buses up to Four Mile Run, since WMATA runs these buses and needed them for that part of the area. Service keeps expanding as more and more people use the commuter buses to take them to DC or to either Franconia Springfield Metro, Vienna, West Falls Church and Rosslyn. I saw a couple of the new Orion V's in DC a few weeks ago. They look really nice. I don't know of any pictures that are out there of them, though.
They run MCI's, RTS's and the new Orions. They used to have Eagle's as well, not sure if they still do, though.
At least some of their Eagles are still around. I saw one twice within the last 2 weeks. I also forget that they have MCI Classics too.
Wayne
Last night at the end of Law and Order there was a commercial for a cell phone company (Verizon, I think). It showed passengers riding on a bus as well as several passengers getting off the bus all talking on their cell phones.
The bus appeared to be an MC-7 going through moutainous terrain. It definitely had the old Greyhound livery with the stripes going across the roof. I assume it was from a prop-rental company since that bus hasn't been in regular service in many years.
Did anyone else see it ?
I did see a commercial last night with a MC-7 in it, but I was on the phone and wasn't paying too much attention to the TV. Those Super 7's were great. I liked them in Greyhoud's old Blue/White paint scheme. Those old Eagle 05 in Continental Trailways Red/White or Yellowish color were favorites of mine too.
Wayne
Hello everyone; just a quick note about our local history. On April 12, 1976, 25 years ago today, our local TA (Valley Metro, Roanoke, VA) received its first new bus order of 22 35 foot Flxible New Looks.
Painted in a vivid red, white, and gold stripe paint scheme and numbered 161 through 182, these stylish coaches were not only the best buses used in Roanoke, but they were also our very first AC-equipped coaches.
These were also the buses who got yours truly into buses at a very young age; in fact, my Dad taught me how to count while I rode one of these with him when I was little. The roar of their mighty 6v71 engines was always music to my ears. I have many vivid memories of these buses, and was very sad to see them go many years later. Fortunately, I am now part of a local museum that preserves older local coaches, and we have preserved Flx no. 179, which we hope to restore one day to be enjoyed by all.
What a joy those old Flxibles were. I'd MUCH prefer to see those ride around town than the blocky looking Gilligs that replaced them some time ago.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
(To see our birthday bus, go to www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html)
AAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!! I KNEW IT! YOU GUYS WANT TO KNOW THE REAL REASON WHY THE TA CANCELLED THE ARTIC ORDER? IT'S ME! THE TA KNOWS I HATE THE RTS AND AM SICK OF DRIVING IT AND DESPERATELY WANT TO DRIVE SOMETHING DIFFERENT. I'M DOOMED TO DRIVE THE @#$%&*! RTS FOR THE REMAINING 11 1/2 YEARS I'VE GOT O DO ON THIS JOB! AAAAAAAAAG!!!!! :^)
Seriously though, what can you do? NYC is the ultimate proving ground for a transit bus and it's obvious that New Flyer just didn't cut it. The ironic thing is that we at 126th Street Depot were just notified that the two parking lots across the street from the depot will be closed for the next 3-6 weeks for reconstruction. The word is the work is necessary to reconfigure the lots to be able to handle the artics. In addition yesterday I had a conversation with an artic driver out of M.J.Quill depot who formerly worked out of the old 100th Street Depot. He told me that the information they were hearing is that the new 100th Street Depot was slated to become an all articulated depot. Maybe the TA and New Flyer can resolve the HVAC problems and the order will be renewed. It seems the TA had a lot riding on the articulated and is going to find themselves in need of replacement buses soon. A lot of the older RTS's have about had it and if the 7000 remans are any indication, then rebuilding them is not a good idea.
To RTS 2150 and other RTS fans, what can I say? As much as the RTS is a torture to drive it still is the king of current transit buses when it comes to durability and reliability. Even the crummy Novas can take incredible punishment. Until New Flyer and other manufacturers can match those attributes then the RTS will continue to reign in NYC. UGH! I think I'm going to be ill! :^)
At least you'll be able to drive the current batch of artics in the near future. Unless they're pulled from service of course. :-)
As for this whole situation, I always dreamed they would cancel BOTH orders, I just never thought it'd come to pass, but it did. And I'm estatic!
As for your ill feeling, an RTS will cure what ails ya! Just ask NYCTA.
Wow, you really love those RTSs, don't you, lol. I like them except for the narrow front door. Otherwise, they seem pretty cool.
I've compiled a bus history list consisting of renumberings and route descriptions (focused on Manhattan, and NOTHING on Brooklyn so far).
I did this using postings from this group, Joe Brennan's bus history on this site, old maps in my posession from 1940, 1976, 1994-96, a Manhattan/Bronx street guide with route descriptions from 1956 and a 1988 subway map.
I intend to fix it up and make it into a webpage. I will also be adding Bronx 1956 information, Brooklyn 1976 and most likely (but not 100% likely) Brooklyn 1939 information.
And the 1956 guide helped answer one of my questions:
The M105 went from 42nd and 12th to Tenth Avenue, then up 10th/Amsterdam to 72nd, then down 72nd back to the Hudson River.
AND that same guide shows the M103 only going to 11th/West End Avenue, not going up West End to 72nd.
Finally NYCO route #22 went from Houston and the FDR, along Houston to Pitt, then down Pitt and Ridge (next street west of Pitt) to Montgomery Street, then along that to South Street.
What the hell was this for?
So in 1956 there was no service on West End Avenue or 11th Avenue at all (excluding the crosstown loops)?
I look forward to this web page.
I was told that the M-105 was rerouted to 11th Ave/West End Ave when the city made 9th/Columbus Aves southbound and 10th/Amsterdam Aves northbound and the NYCO Route 11 (now the M-11) was revisied because of this change. The 11 ran on 9th and Columbus Aves.
The M-105 was discontinued before the takeover by the city of the fth Ave/Surfice Transit routes. when it was i do not know but presume the M-103 was extended at that time.
Thank You
Are you going to work in that defunct, private East Broadway whatever bus company ?
Avenue B and East Broadway? Certainly.
I'm going to go to the Science, Industry and Business Library on 34th and Madison, or the BPL Business Library on Cadman Plaza West.
Queens Village Depot
Misc 309 Run
Pull out 618 AM DHD via Q36 to Merrick and 89 Av,,Leave at 643 AM in X32 Service via R on 89 Av,R on 165 st, R on Hillside Av,L on 188 st,L on Horace Harding,R on Kissena Blvd,R on Main St,R on Northern Blvd,L on Union St,R on Willetts Pt Blvd,L on Parsons Blvd ,L on !4 Av, r on Whitestone Expwy,into the Bridge into the Hutchinson River Pwy ,Exit to Cross Bronx Exp Westbound,into exit 4B Service Road,,into Bronx River Pwy to exit 8 W,into Kazimoroff Bl,R on Bedford Pk Blvd,R on Jerome Av,L on West 205 St,to Paul Av
arrive 8 05 Av
Q36 Run 008
Pull out at 644 AM DHD via Q88 ,Leave at 654 AM in X32 Service via Q27 ,Sprinfield B,L on 56 Av,R on Luke Pl,R on 216 St,L on 48 Av,Into Hollis Ct Blvd,into 46 Av,into Holly Av,R on Kissena Blvdk,into Main St
arriving at HS at 805 AM
Q01 Run 007
Pull out at 649 AM ,DHD Via Q88 to Spfld.Leave at 659 AM in x32 Service
arriving at HS at 810 AM
Misc run 311
Pull out at 625 AM via Q27 ,Springfield Blvd,56 av,St LUke Pl,216 St,Left 48 Av, R on Bell Blvd,via 31,,continue via Bell via Q13 ,Left on 23 Av Library ,to Stand on 23 Av,off of Bell Blvd..
Leave at 8 AMM X32 Service via R on 211 St,Left on 18 Av,Left on Cpl Kennedy ,R on 32 Av,,R on Francis Lewis ,Left on 29 Av,into Bayside Av,Left on 150 St ,,Right on Roosevelt Av,,R on Union St,,,
-arriving at HS at 805 AM
X32 run X01
Pull out at 220 PM via X32 Pullout Path to W205 St and Goulden Av,Leave at 325 PM or when loaded via X32 Bayside Branch to 23 Av and Bell Blvd
arriving at 415 PM
X32 Run X02
Pull out at 225 Pm via X32 Pullout Path to W205 St and Goulden Av,Leave at 330 PM or when loaded via X32 Bayside Branch to Union Tpke and Springfield Blvd
arriving at 441 PM
x32 run X03
Pull out at 225 PM via X32 Pull out Path to W205 St
and Goulden Av.Leave at 330 PM or when loaded via X32 Jamaica Branch to Merrick Bl and 89 av.
arriving at 455 PM
That's right. On the trip passing Seven Locks heading to Bethesda at 3:12. 9224 was on the other run. Does Metro not have enough Metro-Bs in RIde-On colors to run these routes?
Wow - That's interesting. It looks like Ride-On and WMATA are really cooperating. A few times in the morning I've seen Ride-On buses operating on the 28-Downtown Silver Spring circular.
Wayne
It appears Ride-On 28 is now a WMATA operated route except for the trips that stop and wait for the MARC passengers. It seems any bus from Montgomery Division will run on the Ride-On routes Metro operates. The only other 4 buses that I've seen on the 36 other than the 30 footers (5150-5183) and the sighting today (8835) are 9221, 9222, 9223, and 9224.
This letter was sent to Dr. Gridlock, a Washington Post Columnist, in the past week or so:
Dear Dr. Gridlock:
Please allow me to bring to your attention the commendable actions of a Metro employee. During this morning's rush hour, Tuesday, March 6, I was aboard Metrobus No. 2174, operating as trip VS19 on the 16th Street S-2 line. The driver's last name was Martin.
At a stop in front of one of the apartment buildings across from Meridian Hill Park, a young woman in a motorized wheelchair was waiting to board. For whatever mechanical reason, the bus driver was unable to engage the wheelchair lift mechanism on his first attempt.
The driver, Mr. Martin, then proceeded to make a second and, ultimately, a third (successful) attempt to board this handicapped passenger. It appeared to me the problem was finding a level stretch of sidewalk or roadway, so that the ramp end of the lift mechanism would sit flush to the ground at both edges.
In making these subsequent attempts to board the passenger, it was necessary for the driver to maneuver around an illegally parked car, all the while talking to the young woman and pointing exactly where he would next attempt to ground the ramp.
This entire process took maybe three to five minutes, which is more than enough time to make many rush-hour commuters on the 16th Street line a bit short-tempered.
Although no passengers made any such comments (that I heard), I have been on Metrobuses when drivers didn't make second, and certainly not a third, attempt to engage a nonfunctioning wheelchair lift, precisely because they didn't want to incur the wrath of passengers who feared they might be late for work.
I realize that Mr. Martin was simply doing his job. Maybe he just felt sympathy for a young woman waiting at a bus stop on a bitterly cold morning.
The reasons don't matter. It also doesn't matter that I noticed this driver's extra effort, or whether any other passengers recognized what was going on.
I'll bet the young woman in the wheelchair appreciated his efforts on this cold morning. That's what matters.
R. Bradford McMahon
Washington
Now, what bus is going to be run VS12? There is no V division, is there? The S routes are Northern IIRC.
Yeah, I have a feeling that maybe the part of the "N" for Northern could have been blocked, or maybe someone hit the V key insted of the N key, but the S buses do all come out of Northern. I saw that too when I read it on Monday.
When that happens, they often take a piece of paper or cardboard and write in the thing they can't roll to. Remember, the route blocks are roll signs.
BTW: Don't you enjoy reading that column and reading about all the idiots on DC roads?
Oh, I was thinking that maybe the person who wrote the letter maybe had typed "V" instead of "N" since they are right near each other on the keyboard.
Yeah, Dr. Gridlock is pretty funny. Sometimes very disturbing to read about what people see out there. As long as nobody writes about me in there, I'm cool with it!! LOL
what ever happen to luzurne depot.
Luzerne is not an active bus depot anymore. It's now - for lack of a better term - a storage yard for dead trackless trolleys. There are about 40 of them stored at Luzerne. I believe some old PCC cars are stored there as well.
In other words, it's a scrap yard for the living dead! Ugh!
There are about let's say about 10 Buses are there.
Yesterday I took the subway from Times Sqare to 34th Street/6th Avenue and, after a short shopping trip at Macy's, tranferred, with my metrocard, to an Eastbound M34. After over an hour's stop around 1st Avenue and 34th Street, I boarded a Westbound M16 and put in my Metrocard, expecting $1.50 to be deducted. Instead, the farebox registered my card as a transfer, so I didn't have to pay. I was clearly beyond the 2 hour limit from when I first paid my subway fare; also, I thought (1) Metrocards were good for only one transfer within the 2 hour limit, and (2) Transfers involving the same or similar routes (e.g., M16 and M34) in opposite directions were not permitted. Was the second transfer just a fluke, or is that how Metrocard transfers work?
When the busses are scrapped and sent to NIMCO, Gershow, or others, are they kept whole or are they crushed?
Also I distictly remember when the NOVAs first arrived, they had something that I do not see anymore. The NOVAs (I only saw the Suburbans at the time), and some Orions, had a light above the rear door on the exterior of the bus that would light up when a passenger would disembark. I do not see it anymore when I've seen the NOVAs and Orions. It looked almost like a traingle but 3D or like a trapezoid. What happened to this?
It used to be on these buses, but the TA took them off becouse most of them got knock off when a tree branch hit them or some thing else.
Robert
Where are the scrap yards for SEPTA? I know there is one up north (near Norristown or somewhere), but is there another one? Not that I'd want to visit it or anything (I hate seeing dead buses more than anything)
frontiar scap yard:for retired volvo artics & some neoplans
major midvale scap yard: For trackless trollys & retired neoplan and
10 1977 model fixibles.
luzerune scap yard: for For trackless trollys & retired neoplan,
pccs,and what;s inside the retired depot.
south philadelphila near delaware ave scap yord inside a regular
junk yard many pccs trollys
robert scap rail yard mabye buses.for old rail cars.next to midivale.
Wow, there are so many scrap yards? I thought there were only 2 or 3 at most. Well, there are a lot of buses, anyway.
and berbridge.
Frontier usually has a few scrap buses stored there. The main scrap yard is at the Midvale complex. That's where most of the Volvo artics are being stored.
>>I hate seeing dead buses more than anything<<
I've cried when I passed this "recycling facility" in Newtown, and I saw The Almond Joys layed up one on top of another disrespectfully. It was the worst site I've ever seen.
I see folks in the Northeast are quick to scrap any and everything. Any Metro bus in working condition is sold.
Back in 1997 or 1998, Nimco Bus Division at Doremous Avenue in Newark N.J. off of Route 1/9 took in almost all of the Septa RTS buses. They are the largest steel recycling plant in the Northeast. They baled the remaining WMATA Flxible 1977 and Fishbowls, just about all of NJTs ex-NYCTA Grummans, more then half of the NYCTA contracts including over 2,000 rail cars have been recycles at Naporano Iron and Metals. NIMCO destroys over 2000 buses per year at maximum capacity.
Oh my golly, oh my gone, that's like an evil bus killing place *shudder*
Wow, they really take pride in killing buses, don't they? I mean, I just click on their site and on the home page there is a bus, just sitting there, not knowing what is to become of it.
SOYLENT GREEN IS MADE WITH BUSES!!!
Back in 1997 or 1998, Nimco Bus Division at Doremous Avenue in Newark N.J. off of Route 1/9 took in almost all of the Septa RTS buses. They are the largest steel recycling plant in the Northeast. They baled the remaining WMATA Flxible 1977 and Fishbowls, just about all of NJTs ex-NYCTA Grummans, more then half of the NYCTA contracts including over 2,000 rail cars have been recycles at Naporano Iron and Metals. NIMCO destroys over 2000 buses per year at maximum capacity. Coaches go in but they don't come out.
Actually, they do. They have a bus sales division now. It began after TAs began the questionable practice of sending perfectly good buses to the scrapyard.
Well, I finally got to ride an Orion VI, ugly on the outside, but nice on the inside. The seats are soft as new WMATA buses always have them, and the great wooden interior was there. Of course, I was surprised to find a step on this bus. A STEP. This was suppose to be a completely low floor bus, WITHOUT STEPS!!!! That was what the Orion site said, but of course it was a LIE (I heard that Toronto sorta had full low floor Orion VIs, only there was a step at the back door or something like that). Anyway, furious that I had found a step on this bus (well, not really), I sat in the bad row, right next to the engine and behind the four seats that faced each other (not much leg room there, though). THe bus was hot, so I opened a window. The one next to me was a narrow one and couldn't be opened, so I opened the one in front of me. However, the wind was too low and didnt' blow into my face.
Now, I noticed that there were vents in the ceiling, However, i knew for a fact that these Orions didn't have overhead Air conditioning units. When the driver had finally turned on the AC, the air flowed through the little holes that lined the bus in the ceiling. So, what is that overhead vent for, especially if the little holes are for air conditioning? This goes for all buses, especially SEPTA buses and buses that have rear AC.
The engine compartment didn't have the wooden interior look, but was painted brown to match the rest of the bus. I was startled to hear a moan coming from the engine, but it went away and came back several times. The bus rattled a bit when the RPM went up, but I didn't pay too much attention to that, it just reminded me of the newer Flxibles (not the rattling, but of the rumbling of the engine).
I liked the rear window thing, but one thing bothered me-if it wasn't completely low floor, why was the engine on the left than at the back where it belonged. Then it dawned on me. There was only one step that was illuminated by a small light under a seat. The back still wasn't high enough for an engine to be placed underneath. The low floor NABI I rode in Miami had at least two steps, not just one. I may be wrong, however.
There is one question I have about low floors in general. How do the ramps work? I know, you just push it out and then move it back in, but what about the space left from the ramp? Is that filled by something else, or is it just a harsh bump the person in the wheelchair will have to deal with?
Anyway, I like the Orion VI, it's a nice bus. Now to see how New Flyer low floors are when they are in service for SEPTA...
the low floors in septa have one step after the back door.
all so they look like trains on the in side.
I've got news for you: you will NEVER find a SEPTA bus with rear air conditioning. Even if SEPTA were about to order new RTS's, it would be a sure bet that they would come with roof-mounted A/C.
I know that. I grew up with SEPTA. The thing I dont' like is that the windows are sealed, and when it's hot outside and the AC doesn't work, it's TORTURE. Believe me, I know how it is first hand.
I know that same feeling:July 1993 Hi temp 103 that day and of all things that I get a LIBus(then MSBA)Flexible Metro A with no a/c working on the N25.I lost about 5-10 lbs alone riding that bus.
bad
Even if SEPTA were about to order new RTS's, it would be a sure bet that they would come with roof-mounted A/C.
Sounds pretty crazy, I know. But, Detroit is in the process of taking delivery of 100 brand spankin' new NovaBUS RTS-06's all with Sutrak roof-mounted air conditioning. I was hoping (although not holding my breath) that maybe this would inspire a return of slantbacks. The backs are squared like other RTS-06's, but when you look into the vents where the a/c unit normally, there is nothing there! These could have easily been slantbacks!
I was a little uneasy with the idea of roof-mounted a/c on an RTS-06, but the look is really growing on me.
I invite you all to take a look at some of these buses at my incomplete website. Some of the links are not yet functional, but all the pictures listed should work:
Southeast Michigan Transit Photos
Thanks!
Sorry, here is the correct link for the photos:
http://www.dtwbus.net/transpic/sem/p200.htm
Notice how DDOT's Sutrak a/c units have miniature versions of the DDOT paint scheme on them! Very unique (and a feature they could do without in my mind.)
What is the big deal about slanted back buses? Maybe because I sorta grew up with slanted back RTSs on the SEPTA fleet, but I really don't see the big thing about them. In my opionion, I think the RTS looks better with the squared off back.
It's like the New Looks, they're nothing special, it's just nostalgia and oldness.
So I see, but no offense, RTS, but I thought you were one of those who really liked the slanted back?
The bus looks so cool. Roof top AC. Balios signs. That's one good of a cool bus. Those people down at DDOT don't even get good traning on their Articulateds. Maybe what DDOT should do is eather rebuld them or replace them with a easy to use Articulated bus. Just hope if the TA here in NYC will go back to Nova and get it with the Talking systerm and Bablios signs.
I think the main reason why the slantbacks won't come back is because of the exhaust placement. It seems popular nowadays that the exhaust now comes out of the roof (but that's my opinion, but i would love to see the slantbacks myself).
You are probably right. I don't think that DDOT's 3700's have roof exhaust, but still, I don't really see a reason for the return of the slantback. Sure it would be cool, but there's no reason for it.
how do you make links to different web sites.
It didn't dawn on me until now, but while having dinner with my girlfriend on Connecticut Ave. tonight I saw 9761 on the L2. This is the first time I've ever seen a Flxible Metro D on a Western Ave. bus. I remember that another post on here by WMATAGMOAGH said that he spotted a Metro D on the E line and I had thought maybe it was borrowed from another division, but I guess Western is getting a few D's as these buses get repainted and get thrown all over the place. 9761 used to come out of Four Mile Run, then was moved to Bladensburg, but I guess they aren't through moving this poor guy around. I also saw 9801 on the G2 and 9744 on the 42. This is probably why I keep seeing strange buses here in Arlington, such as 8705 and 9227 on the 23C. 8705 I think came from either Landover or Southern and 9227 was from Montgomery originally.
I saw a Metro-D at Western a few months ago but didn't get the number. I haven't seen any Ds since I saw that one on the E route.
Speaking of the refurbishment of the Es, add 4025 to the list of those that have been refurnished. Last time I rode that but, it had an LED in the front of the bus like those on the Orion Vs but I don't think it has the talking bus feature. 4076 has also been refurbished.
I haven't seen a Flxible E with the LED's yet, although, 4099, which has been refurbished had a very bright sign on it, so maybe that was LED, also. I wasn't close enough to really tell.
The LED on 4025 was on the interior.
If anyone needs info on a certain route ,let me know
Example,,the Q58 to Bowne Hs,,the driver deviates to a different route
Hey. What's up with the Bx16? Does it operate 2 separate lines: One to Pitman Av, and the other to Ropes? On the map it looks like that, but in real life, the buses look like they go around Mount St. Micheal, and then back on Baychester.
I took the 5 train yesterday to 238th then got on the Bx16 thinking it was going to go to Mundy Ln. Instead staying straight on Nereid, it turned on Baychester and kept going.
What's up with that?
[What up with the Bx16? Does it operate 2 separate lines: one to Pitman Av and one to Ropes Av?]
Actually, yes. The Bx16 has two branches - one to Mundy Lane & Pitman Avenue, the other to Boston Road & Ropes Avenue - but only on WEEKDAY trips leaving their terminals before 7:00PM.
After 7:00PM, and all day on weekends, the Bx16 operates a "Ropes-via-Mundy" combination: Eastbound - via Nereid, right Mundy, right Pitman, left Baychester. Westbound - via Baychester, right Pitman (becomes Sandford Blvd in Mount Vernon), left South 11th Avenue, into Mundy Lane, left Nereid, and so forth.
JHS 142 Baychester Av and Crawford Av
Pullout via Bartow ,Baychester,Tillotson ,Conner St,Boston Rd,Baychester to Crawford Av...In revenue service via Bx16 via Baychester ,Pitman Av,Sanford Blvd South 11 Av,Nereid Av,into Regular Bx16 to Webster and McClean Av
2 Afternoon PM Trips
Mount St Helen HS
Nereid Av and Hill Av
Trip 1.Neried and Hill to 206 and Bainbridge Av
DHD from Mundy Lane to Nereid and Hill.Revenue via Bx to Norwood
Trip 2 ,Neried and Hill to 206 and Bainbridge Av.
Pullout via Bartow Av,Baychester Av,Tillotson ,Conner St,Boston Rd,Dyre Av,E233 St,Baychester Av,Piitman Av,Sanford Blvd,South 11 Av,Mundy Lane Neried to Bus Stop at Hill Av..Revenue via Bx16 to Norwood Av
Someone earlier mentioned that the TA will not purchase the new RTS. Why?
today i rode on the a septa nabi bus on the 123 to king of prussia
on the blue route expressway they were they can't kept up with traffic
i seen the speedometer it read 55mph.
I rode several Baltimore NABI 40 foot and 60 foot buses. Of which I've seen all do about a easy 65 MPH! Slow? HA!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I have to agree with Trevor. They may be ugly, shoddy buses, but these things can FLY! They used to be able to keep up with our D40LFs. Time has slowed them down though acceleration wise. A 2000-01 D40LF can smoke cars, let alone these. But we still have a few Ikarus holding it down though. Well ,the LNG Ikarus buses are quite slow, but they are my favorite of the fleet.
BTW Trevor, why do you like NABIs so much? They're a couple of steps down from a Flxible if you ask me.
NAMBI buses in phoenix ARE UGLY, But I seen the speedomter at 70mph on freeway express runs (Except In Summer When You see them on the side of the freeway).
I've seen an RTS-04 hit 70 once on the HOV lane. It was this year too. Bus No. 1984.
Our Ikarus buses can hit 65. That's it.
>>>Except In Summer When You see them on the side of the freeway).<<<
I take it you mean breakdowns?
you know, that's nice that the buses can go so fast and all, but, well, at least in pa, the speed limit for buses and trucks is 55. So the SEPTA bus driver was just obeying the speed limit.
are you sure it's 70 not 65 or 55mph.that imposible for
a nabi bus
No Its Not Impossible. Like I've said I've been on NABI's doing a easy 65 MPH or more. You can not compare SEPTA's NABI buses to everyone elses. Also too you have to realize that every transit authority cuts thier buses to a certain speed. Perfect Example:
MTA NovaBUS RTS-06s hit 55 MPH maybe 60 on a good downhill slope, meanwhile the NJT Cousins across the water can do 70 MPH or more easy. Or a NABI example, I've been on a NABI Articulated for WMATA on the Z11 Express Run from Briggs Chaney To Silver Spring and had that thing do close to 80 meanwhile the Baltimore MTA units cut out a 65 MPH, 70 on a good hill.
Just because SEPTA's suck don't pass the buck on to the rest of the NABIs.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
80 yea......... right!!
Can I ask you a question........Have you ridden anything beyond Philadelphia or Pennsylvania for that matter?....Secondly, How old are you?
If you haven't been beyond the jailed walls of Pennsylvania, GET OUT MORE, you'd see the grace a beauty that other transit's give buses. SEPTA cuts back everything, they are just as bad as the MTA. And 80, YEAH that is right. WMATA was not allowed to cut back the NABI Articulateds when they were brand new (And that was a ruling of NABI back then American Ikarus) and WMATA has yet to cut them back, I was down there again recently, and they are still flying, however they do have a slow take off, but when the get going.......THEY GET GONE!
Word of advise, Open your mind!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I've never ridden a WMATA Ikarus, but they certainly sound like trucks to me. I've never really ridden any bus except SEPTA buses on the freeways, though, other than Greyhound too.
You an exception, You have a open mind!
Trevor
You know, before a few years ago, I thought that the TAs manufactored their own buses. I only really knew the WMATA and SEPTA, which basically had totally different types of buses.
dart,
Do Z11 run on Weekends? And do Z11 run alot of Articulateds? Are you shure it's close to 80 MPH? If it was. You might have been on a bus with a Drunk Driver behind the wheel.
Z11 NABI 416#5201
The Z11 runs MANs, I saw 2 myself yesterday!
OK.
I might be comming down to DC maybe sometime after June 22. Maybe while I down there I go to the Arera where the Z11 gos to. BUT how munch is the Fare on Z11?
Z11 MAN Artic#5101
The fare for the Z11 is $1.10 base fare, $.25 with a rail transfer, or free if you are transfering from another bus there at Silver Spring. It only runs on Rush Hours, so be sure to check the schedule to make sure if you ride it, you can get back. I don't think it goes both ways during the rush, meaning in the AM, they may only go to Silver Spring and in the PM they may go only to wherever it goes, I think somewhere near Burtonsville.
Z11 is a rush hour run that runs in both directions, YES 80, good god, what is so unbelievable about a bus doing 80!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
at 80mph the bus don't have good handle.
Great Handle if you have the right tires and good preventative maintenance!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
new jersery transit need some of those nabi artics. on
the altanic city expressway if they going to hit 80
septa need some of those bus for the expressway only.
Well its so much about the bus, its how the transit authorites program the DDEC (For Detroit Diesel Engines) or the CELECT (For Cummins Engines) Electronic Units for the top speed, every bus in the world can go as high as 85 or more, but each transit authority programs its speed for its kind of use. NJT, Baltimore, WMATA, Some NYCDOT & Other Buses can do 65 and better. Meanwhile like SEPTA or the MTA cuts buses back to 40-55 MPH.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
NAMBI Buses (Natural Gas) use more fuel in the Arizona Desert Summers (100F>) the fuel evaperates from the tanks in the heat. usally they are replaced with New Flyers DF40 Or GMC RTS 3 Or TMC RTS 4 (Disels)
[NAMBI (sic) buses in phoenix ARE UGLY]
What is it about the Valley Metro NABI's that makes them ugly? I visit Phoenix a few times a year and find the Valley Metro NABI's, as well as the Bolt and Flash NABI's very attractive.
By the way, on my last trip a few weeks back, I noticed Valley Metro had some new CNG NABI's in the south-central depot (e.g., #6272). Is Valley Metro switching from LNG to CNG?
How can you tell an LNG bus from a CNG bus? Do LNGs not have that big storage thingy on the top of the bus?
[How can you tell an LNG bus from a CNG bus? Do LNGs not have that big storage thingy on the top of the bus?]
Judging from my observation in Phoenix, the LNG tanks are somewhat smaller than the CNG tanks. Interestingly, I first noticed the new bus itself identified as CNG (while all the NABI's I've seen already in service are labeled as LNG) before I realized the tanks on top are different.
My love for the NABIs is that they have proven to me to be more than a decent bus. I love the ride, the sound, and the look. The same characteristics to why I Love Flxible so much.
Favorite Buses:
1) Flxible METRO Series
2) MCI D Series
3) NABI Buses
4) The New Flyer D45S
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
easily!!in philadelphila the nabi bus can't do 40 mph easily.
Here we go again with one bus being slower than another....consider that it MAY be the driver or the drive train specifications or even engine settings on one particular bus of a fleet. I've seen reports in here about certain brands of buses being slower than others, etc. It has NOTHING to do with the brand of bus.
They get the engines, transmissions, differentials, etc. all from outside sources....the relative slowness of any bus has to do with the specifications ordered by the purchaser and the way it is being driven by the bus operator, not just the bus's manufacturer.
Out here on the west coast where I drive, we have LNG-fueled NABI's. They have Series 50 engines, B400R transmissions and I don't-know-what the rear end specifications are. But they are quite fast, and run 70 mile an hour freeway routes with absolutely no problem. They also have darn good acceleration from a stop. We also use our diesel-fueld New Flyer D40LF's on freeway runs, and they barely do over 65 miles an hour downhill with a tailwind.
So before y'all brand any one manufacturer of bus as being "slow" etc., consider what engine, transmission, rear end is specified in those particular buses by the purchasing agency, and also consider that every bus operator drives differently. Believe me, in 28 years of experience, I have seen all sorts of complaints about slow buses, or drivers bragging about fast buses, and then when I get in the particular bus they are complaining/bragging about, I find it to be totally different in my opinion than they stated in theirs.
ddc Series 50 engines, B400R transmissions for the septa nabi
Yeah, you are right about that. Besides, I think the NABI that was doing 55 was obeying the speed limit in pa, which is 55 for trucks and buses. Anyway, i know I'd feel a bit nervous if I was driving a car and this bus was gaining on me goint 70 miles per hour or so.
probarly
When I made the top speed stats on the various models of The SEPTA fleet, i forgot to mention the factor about the buses being governed down. Due to Pennsy's speed limits, the bus cannot exceed 60, so even though The Ikarus has an excellent drive train (Detroit/Allison), they have to obey the specs laid down by the state.
Anybody heard yet about the Ho scale GMC New look supposedly made by APM? I would buy at least 6 of these buses if they were avaible. I know they did the old look models-when are the new look models due to be avaible??
Later this year, supposedly; check with me every so often as I will be all over them when they finally come out. :)
-F.
The word is......BE PATIENT!!!!!
Last month or so, reports were that "maybe" later this year due to a tooling problem andchange of actual manufacturer. Note it said LATER THIS YEAR.
That means, sit back, be patient, and when they come out, they come out.
Add another Bronx route on which Artics are running. This may be an isloated incident, because yesterday morning I rode it all the way from Jerome & Mosholu to Baychester & Bartow and every 28 that passed by the other way was a Nova. It's possible that it was returning to the Gun Hill depot after a run on the BX22, but would a bus head back to the barn in revenue service?
It seems like just a year ago that the only Bronx routes that ran Artics were the 1, 2, 12 and 55. Since then I've seen them become regular on the 4, 5, 9, 22, 39, 40, 41 and 42 (with one sighting each on the 3 and 36). What happens to the Novas the Artics replaced on these routes? Is service on the remaining Nova routes being beefed up? Are they moving to other boroughs? Are the older 4000s being retired?
If I'm not mistaken, Orions rule on the 6, 15, 19 and 21.
Orions are used on the Bx 33 also. Bx 6 and 15 is out of Amsterdam depot, while Bx 19, 21 and 33 are out of Mother Clara Hale. Hence, Orions on those routes.
dont worry most of the 4000s are in other boroughs. yukon got several of these bronx rejects while they are also in service at manhattanville and flatbush and other depots as well.
"dont worry most of the 4000s are in other boroughs. yukon got several of these bronx rejects while they are also in service at manhattanville and flatbush and other depots as well."
See, same as when the 81-82 RTSs were being retired - Yukon and Castleton got the older ones that were considered "rejects" - however, they run very well.
[This may be an isolated incident.... It's possible that it was returning to Gun Hill Depot after a run on the Bx22, but would a bus head back to the barn in revenue service?]
That was an isolated use of an articulated bus on the Bx28. A Bx22 pulling in from Goulden Avenue would operate without passengers and follow the Bx25/26 routing (via Bedford Park Boulevard and Allerton Avenue).
I've also spotted Articulateds on the Bx28 on three other occasions, and one time rode it. It does damn well around the Co-op City Loops.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Sometimes I see it in Co-op city as on my way to school on a school bus.
Bx28 New Flyer D60#5400
I've seen artics on the Bx28 at night (Run 1 on the 28), and as a general rule, RTSs are to be used only on the Bx26, and Bx28, they wanted to put artics on those lines but the TA met resistance from the Co-Op city residents, so if you see an artic see what run it is, or if you see them during the day, they are probably just meeting service.
I came across this website and thought I'd pass it along. For those interested, it lists the numbers of most of the public pay phones around the USA, but specifically includes NYCTA subway system phones. If you look long enough, you'll also find the numbers to the public phones within Queens Village depot (and even includes one number we use as our "pick" number).
Other garages are included, as are most subway platform phones.
href="http://www.payphone-project.com/">http://www.payphone-project.com/
Another thing I notice now the weather is warmer, those Cummins L10G's in the LI Bus Orions run hot. It's so hot in the back of the bus, you can fry an egg on the rear seats. And it's really an oven when the windows are locked.
Another reason to avoid the Cummins, it's an oven inside those things.
i know that septa eldorado cummins 5.9 engine can get so hot if feel like 150 degrees
SEPTA's El Dorados have Cummins' engines? Oh ny God, i would never thought that SEPTA would order buses with Cummins.
Funny you should mention this.....
I drive out on the west coast, and the agency I work for re-engined some of their 1988 Gillig Phantoms with Cummins C8.3 engines. You could almost count on the sucker breaking down the moment the outside temperature hit 85 degrees. I had a route that went past Disneyland Hotel, and one particular bus would shut down there every day without fail -- good place to take a break waiting for the service truck. Nice scenery, clean restrooms, and places to grab a bite to eat if needed!!
They finally put larger radiators in (thicker ones), made the cooling fans direct drive, and put lower temperature thermostats in so the water would start flowing through the engine/radiator at a lower temperature. It only took about six months to get it all straightened out.
They haven't re-engined anything with Cummins since. The 1989 Gilligs, which came with L10's, got re-engined with Detroit Series 50's. And that's what all our new equipment has come with since.
That's the direst opposite of what Valley Metro in Roanoke is doing; after not being impressed with the mechanical stability of their Series 50s in their 1994 Gilligs, they ahve decided to switch to Cummins for their new bus order later this year. Just when I was getting used to the 50s! Guess time will tell what happens with the new Gilligs.
-F.
Perhaps some of your maintenance departments should share some of the blame. All of our D40LFs have Cummins engines and they can smoke anything with a DD50 engine. They break down less than the Neoplans with the Series 50 and they're only 90 of those. It's probably LI BUS's poor upkeep that keeps these engines down. If you vrounght one of your "good" 300 series Orions with the DD50, our 3300 D40Lfs would run circles around it. I'm telling you, those 32xx-33xx buses have the acceleration of cars.
Perhaps some of your maintenance departments should share some of the blame. All of our D40LFs have Cummins engines and they can smoke anything with a DD50 engine. They break down less than the Neoplans with the Series 50 and they're only 90 of those. It's probably LI BUS's poor upkeep that keeps these engines down. If you brought one of your "good" 300 series Orions with the DD50, our 3300 D40Lfs would run circles around it. I'm telling you, those 32xx-33xx buses have the acceleration of cars.
Well LI Bus maintainance isn't well known for good upkeep.
I think FP has kept their Cummins buses in tact. Saw 9149 was repainted and glowing on the Q58 Thursday night while I was on the dreaded Q60-had 1146. Recently I had 9147 on the Q58 and both the ride and seats under the engine compartment seemed to be fine to me-wasn't hot. I think the Cummins failed on the Orions-295 296 297 299-300 which had Cummins engines in them now have DD50. I believe 291 and 292 were repowered and sent back to CS but they never had the Cummins engine in them.
Q58#9147Gary
Q32#299Gary
Q60#1146Gary
Cummins and Orions don't seem to mix.
Yeah, because NJT has Cummins in some of their Flxibles and RTS's and they seem to run fine. Also the CNG engine by Cummins is alot worse than the diesel.
the reason why it get so hot because the engines are so fast
No, the series 50 engines are faster.
I second that.
Maybe against Older Cummins. When I see a Series 50 powered bus take out a car in dead acceleration, I'll agree. Nothing is faster than the Cummins they have in our New Flyers. And they're actually quieter than the loud series 50 engines in the Neoplans.
Well I'm comparing Orions here anyway. New Flyers are much better buses than Orions.
On the Amtrak I went by the Elmwood depot, and saw several mini buses parked there. What are they doing at a trolley depot?!
i know that mini buses are being scader aroud the whole city.
2055 is repainted with phash decals.
I've noticed them as well. But I do find it blasphemous that the minibuses would have numbers reserved for The PCC's.
i don't like the mini bus they are to small
Some buses are stored at Elmwood from time to time to cover bus substitutions on the Subway-Surface lines. I recall a few years ago a couple of older buses used on Chester Av as a replacement for the 13 trolley during the Chester Av reconstruction.
The interior of an NYCT RTS was just in a SNL skit. You can clearly hear the 6V-92TA engine.
Not the 1st either that SNL used a TA bus for a skit.In the early 80's they used an OA 9200 New Look Flxible with Eddie Murphy walking around diguised as a white guy.
Yeah...that sketch was classic...and so was the bus!
Another bus spotting: On an episode of "The Wonder Years", shortly after blowing up a toilet during a field trip, Kevin and his friends load onto a chartered Flxible New Look, which rides off into the sunset. The bus had all black around the rear window area (in an era that predated ADBs by about 4-5 years) and was white with a blue stripe a la the NYC 9000s. You could clearly see the Flxible emblem behind the science teacher as he spoke to the class.
Also, on WKRP in Cincinnati, in the episode where Dr. Johnny Fever crashes with Bailey, his temporary yuppie replacement spins a then-new record by the Go-Gos (gotta love those early 80s golden oldies!). In the next scene, a Queen City Metro Flx New Look (800 series?) rolls past the Flim building.
Anyone else know of buses on the little screen? I have tons to mention. Enrich my mind!
-F.
I know some.
On Charles Angels. This shot have a SCRTD GM New Look painted in Yellow,Black,and white is in a bus stop then a SCRTD MAN Artic painted in Yellow,Black,and White pass by.
On the king of queens. This guy was on a bike in the city and about 2 Cars behind him. A MTA NYC Transit Flxible 870 was sitting in traffic. Then as this guy was going his bike. A MTA Flxible 870 Pulls in to lay up.
When I saw this movie on TBS one time. While people on the floor with their heads cover and the gunman is robbing the bank. In the background a SCRTD GM RTS painted in Red,Yellow,Ornage,and Black pass by the bank.
Thank you for the info. Here's some more; on an early CHiPs episode, Ponch and Jon ogle an ad featuring an attractive local model that is on the side of a passing Fishbowl (green with silver sides...which TA is this in California? This would have been about 1977.)
Throughout the early episodes of CHiPs, these Fishbowls are seen. In later episodes through the series finale in 1983, RTSes with orange side stripes are seen in the background occasionally.
-F.
That New Look are from Culver City Bus. That was the OLD Paint job. Now it's Green and White with Blue Worlds. Those New Looks Retired in 1990. SCRTD is from LA and Culver City Bus is from Culver. SCRTD is now LA Metro as of 1995. Culver is about 10 Miles south of LA Just about 6 Miles north of Long Beach.
Good info but a few inaccuracies.
That New Look are from Culver City Bus. That was the OLD Paint job. Now it's Green and White with Blue Worlds. Those New Looks Retired in 1990.
Culver CityBus's writing is in Red with the green stripes. Most of the New Looks (T6H 4521A's) were retired in 1990 with the arrival of eight 40 foot Flxibles that year, but several lived on until the arrival of the New Flyer C40LF's in about 1998.
SCRTD is from LA and Culver City Bus is from Culver. SCRTD is now LA Metro as of 1995.
LACTC (operator of Blue Line) and SCRTD were merged to form MTA. The MTA name took effect on April 1, 1993, not 1995.
Culver is about 10 Miles south of LA Just about 6 Miles north of Long Beach.
Culver City is more west of LA, but the city limits of Los Angeles are so big that it's hard to place some places relative to it.
>>> That New Look are from Culver City Bus. <<<
Are you sure of that? Not seeing the TV show, I cannot be sure, but before the SCRTD, the Los Angeles buses were in green livery under the name MTA (which went back to the streetcar days). I am not sure what year SCRTD took over from MTA, but I would guess that it was in the ‘70s. Even after the SCRTD took over there was a period of time when the buses changed over to the orange and brown SCRTD livery that both colors were seen on the road.
>>> Culver is about 10 Miles south of LA Just about 6 Miles north of Long Beach. <<<
Culver City is adjacent to Los Angeles near the Santa Monica freeway (I-10) and the San Diego freeway (I-405), south of Beverly Hills, and the home of MGM Studios.
Tom
In the movie Tommy Boy(very funny movie),they are suppose to be in Chicago.However if you catch it when they are entering the office building to see Dan Akaroyd a TCC GM or MCI Classic passes by right behind them.
The beginning skit of the Late Show with David Letterman shows a porkchop paneled RTS passing the Ed Sullivan Theater. Probably a 4400 on the M7 when it was at MCH. I remember getting 4414 on the M7 shortly before the Orions took that route over. If I can think of any other shows with Buses in it, I'll post here on BT.
M7#4414Gary
SNL showed an NYCTA RTS turning a corner from aerial level during the opening through the early to mid-90s. And what exactly is a "Porkchop panel"? I'm not familiar with the term.
-F.
In the Green Day video for the song "When I come around"(from the album Dookie)a SF Muni NFI E60HF passes them by.It is near the beginning of the video.
Hmm...didn't remember that part of the video; however, I do remember the following....
In the Counting Crows video "Hanginaround", Grumman 870 no. 7728 of LA Metro is seen throughout the video, including an excellent parting rear shot at the end.
Also, in 311's "All Mixed Up" video, an NYC MTA RTS is briefly seen at the curb.
In Collective Soul's video "The World I Have Known", shots of the lead singer are taken inside and outside of a GM New Look in red and white (from which TA I am not certain).
Also, I forget the song, but Sheryl Crow had a video a couple years ago in which she sings sitting in front of a Flx New Look, sans wheels, in the middle of a junkyard.
If anyone has addendum to our video list, please do inform us; thanks!
-F.
I got one.
On BET one time. This was a rap music video. The guy listing to his walkman and broaded a MTA NYC Transit Flxible New Look.Also show him sitting down in the last seat in the Flxible New Look with a little kid looking at him.
OOOOOHH!!! Find out what rap artist and which video that was; I've gotta see my bus!
-F.
I don't know the name of the Video that was on BET. I don't know the name of the rapper. BUT I do know how it looks like on the Video. He's black. He was with a Red and Black Baseball Jersey that says "Fubu". With a black Hat and was with Headphones.
These days, that explains a lot of people. That's like saying "I don't know what kind of bus I rode in DC, but it was white and red and blue and said "MetroBus" on the sides." :)
-F.
A good show to spot an occasional bus or two is "Law & Order." I recall one episode (I can't recall which one, though) where the detectives are in a lower Manhattan diner. A Flxible Metro B Suburban (this was probably Drogin in the pre-Coach USA days - it had a blue stripe) passed by.
Over the years, I've spotted my fair share of TA RTS buses in the background during L&O episodes.
Another example that comes to mind is from an episode of "The Sopranos" (I think it was from last season, but I don't know for sure). In one scene, Tony Soprano is talking to his shrink at her office, which appears to have been shot from an office tower on Broad St in Newark. Looking outside the window, I could see a few NJT RTS buses traveling up and down Broad St.
Yeah, I saw this. But does anyone know where the bus actually was?
Yeah...I saw that. I knew right away by the sound and the window design that it was a NYC RTS! So those ARE 6v92s in those; they are so quiet you'd never know. They scream like demons in our Gilligs here!
I like the looks of the RTS better but as far as sound, I see buses the same way I see women; I like one that screams and makes some noise!
Unlike most buses, all RTS buses are different. Each bus engine will have a unique sound. Some are quiet like the one on TV, others are so loud they shake the windows.
Besdies, they couldn't use a loud RTS in a skit. It'd command all the spotlight.
That makes sense; I can see where that would take away from the sketch. Last November I did a political bit on a morning radio show involving a renegade campaign manager that stole a local Gillig and used it cross-country as a campaign bus.
I recorded the interior sounds of a 6v92-powered model during a day off for best effect; it's funny how radio works. When I called the bits in to my partner at the studio, it was blaring so loud behind me I could barely hear him, yet it was just loud enough to where you caould get the general idea that my character was driving a bus, yet it did not overpower the bit.
Same with last night's SNL sketch; however, the sound would not have been as much of a key factor there as you can see the bus, whereas you need that sound on the radio to get the idea across, as radio is a theatre of the mind. Hopefully I can download the whole bit for everyone to be shared by all some day; it went great!
-F.
As has been posted on an earlier thread, the engines on newer Orions and RTS are louder because they're more powerful. Living in Flushing I've gotten very accustomed to Orions, and the louder engine noise is more tolerable than the very annoying accelerating whine on the older ones. It's been said that Staten Island local routes are entirely 1999 Orions because the hilly terrain requires a bus with a powerful engine.
The other day I boarded a 9400-series RTS on the B41 at Grand Army. By the time I got off at Flatlands I had a headache. The sounds of 4400-series on the B82 I transferred to seemed much smoother and gentler. It made you forget that the bus is twelve(?) years older, even with the paint peeling off the seats and bell not working.
I seems that Orion with DD Series 50 are louder then RTSs with the same engine.
Orions seem to have a much louder engine, I think it's due to the thinner engine compartment housing. The engines always sound better on an RTS. Orions aren't built nearly as good.
That might be why Series 50 Gilligs clatter like lawnmowers. Thinner engine compartments! RTSes seem to have more soundproofing throughout the bus.
-F.
The RTSs used to dominate SI and ran on some very hilly routes, like S60.
why??
how does a 6v92ta engine sounds like.
A 6v92 sounds very throaty and powerful; kind of like most Greyhound buses have sounded in the past 10 to 15 years, only in transit form. Some fire engines also have this powerplant.
The engine sounds completely different in various buses, such as Gillig, Flxible, and RTS; I believe you may be able to find a sound clip of the 6v92 at www.transitalk.com.
Well, the 6V92TA will sound different depending on the transmission. On the 8000-series Neoplans, The Allison transmission (T-drive) and the 6V92TA makes it sound like either The N.J. Transit or Greyhound MC-9's, it has a unique sound with the 3000-series due to The ZF probably because of it's low shift points (which also gives it jerky shifts), The RTS's and Flxibles share the same sound as well due to their V-drive. I have no idea what it would sound like with a Voith because I am not familiar with that.
This is the LI Bus/MSBA detail left out of my SubTalk post.
Being that there seems to be quite a deal of LIBus-bashing here quite frequently, that's one of the reasons I felt compelled to board this bus - to see how bad it really was. Now, this was my very first ride on LIBus, so I obviously cannot reach a judgment with the same validity as a frequent rider, but anyway . . .
It was an Orion V, #145 (pretty sure it was CNG - it had that dome on top). The interior was quite similar to an NYCTA bus, except for 2-2 seating, and the wall panels and floor were light blue rather than dark blue and black.
But what really struck me as kind of cool was the sign that displayed major stops, and the automated voice that announced them! The bus didn't look brand new, so I don't know if that equipment was retrofitted or what, but it was pretty cool.
The driver (middle-aged white-haired fella) was polite and informative. And the ride was not bad either. Pretty scenic, and since it was a gorgeous day out, I opened my window and enjoyed the nice cool sea breezes.
Well I'm certainly glad I enjoyed it, cause I won't be takin' no more 6 hour excursions like this until July! Except on weekends if I have time, which I usually don't.
The talking feature on LI bus was there since the beginning. All the CNG buses on LI bus have it. Green Bus Lines 5501 and 5502 have it as well, but only announce major stops (and only for the Q60) and 5501s is completely different from the LI Bus version (but the same as the JFK airport shuttle bus's version).
Had 5501 the other night on the Q60 and the announcing feature as well as the time and date wasn't even on.
5502 has the date and time, not 5501. The display is usually blank and only displays something while announcing the stop or will randomly show "Q60 to S. Jamaica" or the phone number to call for info.
When an N4, and probably others too, gets up some speed beyween requested stops, it never shuts up, and I find it quite annoying.
Which route was this?
N33
That was my first LIBus too!
I can't make heads or tails of this schedule (pdf)! My next trip to Philly I want to go via the R-3 West Trenton, and this is the only bus to the train station! There are arrows all over the place with AM or PM (what, is it a loop or something?), the trips to the train station are only during rush hours (after 30 minutes of scrutiny I determined this), and I can't even figure out where the stop is in relation to the train station (stupid map!... Who drew this, a blind man?)! Can anyone decode this thing and tell me how to get from Trenton train station to West Trenton station? I would prefer not to do the reverse, I don't like taking a train and having to hunt for the bus stop, much easier to take a bus and hunt for a train station!
I just read that thing and on weekends it don't go to the Train Station. I do think theres anouther bus that will take you to West Trenton. And how did you got the link onto your post?
NJT strip maps can be a mess. It is is impossible to determine the definite routing of weekday 600 buses thru West Windsor (US1 vs Canal Pointe) with route lines forming boxes without arrows, and probably some street segments they don't run on.
This is the only bus that goes to the train station. Other buses go to the town but not the station.
A link is simply <a href="http://www.nycsubway.org">NYC Subway.org</a>, which results in NYC Subway.org.
Desktop Themes
Platform: Windows 95/98/ME with Desktop Themes installed. You also need WinZip or another archiving program to unzip the files.
Description: Ever want your computer to resemble a transit system with the system colors, sounds, wallpaper, and screen saver (for ME users only)? Have you tried but never succeeded with a certain aspect? Desktop themes are now available for Windows 95/98/ME.
Themes available: Washington Metro New, Washington Metro Old, New York City Subway, Redbird (NYC), SEPTA, SEPTA Subway-Elevated, and Acela
Download them off of http://www.orenstransitpage.com. Click on Download Station, about two thirds of the way down the page.
Sincerely,
Oren H.
Webmaster of OTP
PS. Most of these themes represent subways. I can work on buses if the intrest is out there.
Where is the download station? On what page is it? I can't find it!
Ever want your computer to resemble a transit system with the...screen saver (for ME users only)?
Why is this only for Windows ME users?
Does anyone know if this bus was sold?I rode it last summer from the Pentagon to Ballston Station on the 23 I believe.I think this bus was in a movie also.I understand that Metro kept two fishbowl's for historical purposes.Does anyone know which ones were kept?
With what has recently happened in the continuing sad saga of the Orion VII (will it or will it not be?), what can or should we expect NYCT to do in the area of new bus purchases?
Where does that leave the soon-to-be-introduced RTS-LF in New York's future?
And how about other promising low-floor models such as New Flyer's Invero and NABI's product?
NYCT will probably be agressive in getting the other RTS HEVs in and will test them rapidly. If they pass {they better} then they'll get 200-225 more.
What about the CNG's are those going to RTS,Orion V or NFI C40LF's or C40HF's
If it's new flyer. Better get the C40HF's. If they get C40LF's. They in for a BIG PROBLEM in the winter time.
B61 New Flyer C40#9000
There were to be many CNG and HEV Orion 7s, without them, all future RTSs should be HEV and more New Flyer C40s should be purchased.
to add to this looming local bus crisis, yesterday at yukon at 2:30 pm there were no local buses at all available for service. yukon presently has 23 orion locals and about 40 rts buses none of which are less than 10 years old.
Holy!!! What did they do? I know they have like 5 Orion Expresses there. Did they use them? Did they use the MCIs on locals? (That would be interesting.) Why not take some of the busses from Edgewater?
Yukon gave up most of their newer Orions to Castleton when the local lines moved over. If Castelton gave Yukon #471-#504, they would have more buses to cover the routes.
mci buses will never be used for local service. orion buses 139-143 rarely see service except for an occassional school trip. edgewater has been cleaned out as the 3800 coaches there were probably scrapped. there are now several orion coaches there and a few rts buses.
If I remember correctly, NYCT was supposed to get a large number of RTS HEV buses, but then went with Orion instead.
I have just posted a message on SubTalk concerning my recent trip to Washington, DC. It's a bit long, but there are some bus-related items in it.
For those of you who want to read it, the link follows.
My trip to Washington, DC (long) (ST 212946) - R36 #9346 - Mon Apr 16 09:03:37 2001
With the recent cancellation of its Orion VII and 140 bus option on its NFI's D60HF's.I have come to one conclusion;after the Grumman 870 fiasco hasn't the TA learned that you cannot get Nordstroms quaility at Century 21 prices.How is that other cities that operate the same buses without the problems that the NYCTA has .IF the TA keeps cutting corners on its bus purchases it is going to get to a point where these buses will be able to last not even 10yrs.The last time the TA shelled out money for an adequate bus was the 8000's series RTS's built in 93.
I'm sorry, but you really can't blame NYCT for the Orion and NFI problems. The Orion VII was a new design and it fell apart, that's Orions fault. You can kind of blame NYCT for the artic problem, since they should have tested them better. Well, in the future, since they will most likely be purchasing RTS from now on, I suggest they stop buying the fiberglass version and go for the stainless steel model.
Theirs are NOT Fiberglass Version. ALL RTS's are bulit Stainless Steel frame.
Thank you, Effective the GMC RTS-06 Series back in 1986-87, all MTA RTS buses (I think any RTS) has been built with the stainless steel frame, yes the exterior paneling is Fiberglass, BUT the frame is stainless steel and thats one feature that GMC, TMC and even NovaBUS prides themselves on.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com (Updated 4-14-01)
unfortunately nyct never learns. they started fooling around with orion in 1993 at the prodding of then governor mario cuomo because the company was allegedly new york based. its actually canadian but final assembly is done in oriskany n.y. as many of you know. governor pataki kept pushing them to continue buying the product. now they may have to go back to novabus and settle for more clean diesels.
I just have to wonder how someone could use fiberglass on a bus? I mean, I've seen fiberglass on some walls, and it isn't that strong or anything. How can it hold together on a bus? Particularly, in service with careless people? I wouldn't be surprised if it just crumbled in the middle of service.
Did NOVA or any of its predecessors ever consider building an RTS Artic ?
GM built a demo. They never produced it because they didn't feel there was a market for it.
If NovaBUS ever decided to do a Articulated RTS, I'm sorry but it has to be said, They would have to do it in a WFD style, I just couldn't see the NFD style RTS as a Articulated, even though I've seen pics of the GMC Articulated demo, I was just overwelmed with sickness at the look.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Is it the CTA front end, or the RTA Super Suburban (or Express) front end, or are they one in the same ?
The GM Demo looked like a regular RTS, except it had the seperator in middle. It was simply just a segmented RTS.
The RTS SS and the CTA front end seem to be one in the same, although at one time the RTS SS had the regualar front end. An RTS artic with a WFD front door would be hideous. Thsy should just leave well enough alone. Just ask NYCT what happens when you try to get too far ahead of yourself.
I agree; the WFD front end looks like something I ate and dropped! VERY ugly. I liked it better in the earlier CTA look; it looked more like the original RTS there. I'd MUCH rather see a streamlined front end on an RTS artic that that monstrosity. It's hideous.
-F.
The CTA front end and the RTS Express front end are identical in purpose but different in styling.
CTA's RTS's are just standard transit buses, but CTA wanted the lift at the front door, thus was born the RTS WFD. In the same year as CTA got their 476 WFD's, SMART in suburban Detroit took delivery of 33 similar buses, although SMART's had no rear door at all.
I'm not sure if TMC was planning on introducing a WFD RTS and it was just coincidence that CTA and SMART were looking for those specs at the time, or it TMC build those RTS's to CTA's specs (CTA has a long and notorious history of ridiculous custom designs) and SMART just tagged along. SMART itself does not order enough buses to get a custom design.
The original RTS WFD styling reasonably resembles a standard, narrow front door RTS when seen from afar, and the stying changes on the front face are only those necessary to accommodate the slide-glide doors. I believe these first-generation WFD RTS's are only seen at CTA, SMART, Long Beach Transit, and possibly Sun Metro in El Paso.
About half way through 1992, TMC felt the need to completely modify the design, and the front looked completely different from any other RTS. The bumper seceded from the rest of the body and the headlights went off into a world of their own. This second WFD design was not seen on that many orders. Austin, Long Beach, Honolulu, and SMART's 9368 and 9369 are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Then, NovaBUS went at it again, and concocted the current RTS WFD that a lot of us seem to loathe. This is the one seen on American RTS Expresses. This is the one where it looks like the bumper came up and swallowed the headlights from a regular RTS, and the destination sign is completely separated from the windshield. This third WFD design is the most common of them all.
Strangely, from the right side, the doors have not changed at all throught the three releases of the WFD.
You can see a picture of a SMART WFD at my incomplete website, here.
I am working on tracking down the very unique 9368 or 9369 for a picture; these are truly unique buses as they not only sport the second RTS WFD release, but also have a shorter wheelbase and a rear door moved up one window position.
Not that's a NICE front end! Looks a HELL of a lot better than the current WFD offering.
-F.
Hello everyone; just wanted to let you know that I will be placing a custom model of a WMATA Fishbowl on eBay today. The bus is 1:64 scale diecast and has friction motor, along with detailed lights and MetroBus paint scheme. I may also be getting more of these in soon to do more customs; let me know if you'd be interested. Thanks!
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
eBay ID: flxible
Oh yes, and I also have a WMATA Flxible Metro on there; if a BusTalk member gets high bid on either bus, you get your choice of bus number on either coach. Happy bidding!
-F.
are these the same fishbowl buses that came out and said New York Bus on them?
That's the one; they look REAL good in WMATA colors. Check it out if you like!
-F.
today i seen eldorado's on the 105 for the 4:15 trip of the 105.
Oh my gosh, you are kidding! There are new buses on the 105 finally! But, hey, isn't the earliest trip a new 5:12 trip to Paoli?
nope i am not kidding.
see buses on the 105.septa can do anything
Yes. That 5:12am trip is designed to get commuter to the first 206 trip at Paoli Station. The R5 doesn't run that early to Paoli.
i am talking about 4:15pm
to radnor
today i seen another eldorado#4547 on the 105.
AT AROUND 12:00PM
Wow. On Thursday I saw a NABI which was amazing in my eyes, since NABIs don't make it around Radnor.
i always see nabi's on the 105 lately.i rode on one yesterday
that one was goneing all the way up to the last stop.
lated i see nabi used on different routes such as the route G,40,
and the 46.in my area.
i also see eldorado #4533 on the 123 on the way back to 69st termal.
the 123 pick up some many people why would they eldorado.i see people
standing on the bus,on both of these routes.
people complain that the new bus can't hold certain amount of these
people.and that the bus get so hot!!!.
peace out
kmO
Hmm, very interesting. The 46 used to be an RTS route, and G and 40 I only have seen and still see Neoplans. The part of the 105 I see and use (way after armore, going to Bryn Mawr, Radnor, Wayne, and beyond, otherwise, the mainline) I ONLY see Neoplans except for the few times a year that I might see one! Of course, I would either be in a car or school bus or it's going in the opposite direction. My only complaint about having NABIs on the route is that there are hard seats, and the route supposedly takes an hour, but really it seems like from Bryn Mawr to 69th St its and hour or at least 45 minutes. About the 123, it isn't bad to use them at night like around 9 or so, because there aren't that much riders. However, usually they use NABIs. About the El Dorados, do they really hold a good amount of people for a 30ft bus? They really seem to hold so few. I mean, I've ridden Gillig Phantoms and Orion Is, both 30ft on Ride On, and they seemed to do rather well.
just on saturday on the 5:01pm trip at 63st malvin ave i saw 5318#nabi bus.go all the way to pass Bryn Mawr, Radnor, Wayne, and beyond.
Yeah, last week I saw NABI # 5134 (I think that's right) on the 105 to Paoli.
The Eldorados seat 26 people. I don't know if they could get away with putting Eldorados on the 123, but they might put them on other lines for late night service. The 12:18am 104 trip to West Chester has traditionally been a low volume trip - compared to other trips on the 104 - so they could get away with putting an Eldorado on that trip. However, the run with the 12:18am trip begins at around 6:00pm, so they'd have to swap buses before the last trip. I don't think that'll happen.
On Saturdays (I'm not entirely sure about after Ardmore to 69th Street) the 105 buses are really empty. I remember one time I got on one bus at Wayne and the bus was literally empty, no passengers at all.
Why the bus get's so hot for? If it's get so packed on the Eldorado. Then put the New Flyer on that route and use that for the MFL Bus service late at night.
Actually, Market-Frankford night owl service carries enough passengers to justify a 40 ft bus. As for the New Flyers, I don't think they'll show up on the 105 (at least during the week) because Lancaster Av (US 30) is too narrow, at least west of Lower Merion.
Besides, the only city garage to get the Eldorados will be Midvale.
I'm sorry, but I don't really think that Lancaster Ave really is too narrow for a bus that's 102 rather than 96. Besides, they use the NABIs on the 105 too. I mean, there are a few narrow parts like under the rt 100 bridge, but I don't know of any other locations. I'll tell you why they won't show up on the 105. Because they don't want us to have the good buses! Well, Neoplans are good, but, I mean, there isn't that much ridership and, well, the Neoplans are suburbans and the 105 is a really Looooonnnnnnnngggggggg route.
some time last week i saw bus with a alot standind.
low ridership..........i don;t thing so.
Well, usually, during the day other than peak service or rush hour, the buses are really empty. At least, before Ardmore. At Ardmore, the bus really fills up.
New Flyers are 102 With. The buses on 105 are 102 With. So that means a New Flyer could run that route. The 30 Foot buses are 102 With anyway. And when more New Flyers are going to come in and what Routes it will run? And What Route the Midvale Eldorados will run?
Oh yes.
The New Flyer D40LF is great for Market-Frankford night owl service.
....................why!!!!!!???????????
do you know that the septa new flyers have steps in the back
of it.it may take a while for septa passangers to get acustum to
it.what i am try to say that these buses are septa first low floors.
Yeah, most transit companies fot their first low floor buses in the last two years or so. Or at least a lot of them. Besides, almost all low floor buses, with the exception of the Orion II, the Neoplan True Low Floor, and the LFS, have steps in the back. Oh well, people will get used to it quickly enough.
The buses on the 105 are NOT 102 inches, they are the 96 inch Neoplan suburbans (usually, or the transit style). The El Dorados, or this it Los Dorados, are 96 inches as well. But the 105 can handle 102 inch NABIs, i've seen them myself. Maybe the EL Dorados at midvale will serve the 35, if that's the correct depot.
The New Flyers will probably be put on Callowhill 21, 38, 42, and 44. I think the 52 might be a candidate as well, but the ridership is too high for a low floor bus. At Southern, low floors will be placed at least the 17, C, and possibly either the 2 and/or 7. At Red Arrow, I think you might see them on the 104, 108, and maybe even the 123.
AFA the Eldorados, they are 96" wide. The Eldorados assigned to Midvale will operate on the 28, 35, 77, and 89. I had heard talk that the 39 might also see these buses as well, but I haven't confirmed that yet.
the new flyer we be on the 44.
there are so more info on the eldorado at http://www.creativebussales.com
eldorado web site
today i see eldorado on the 106.on it's 4:25 trip
friday i see eldorado on the 106.on it's 4:25 trip
today i saw a rode eldorado 4530 on the 106 on the 1:25
SEARCH IN WWW.NOVABUSRTS06.50MEGS.COM AND ENJOY THOSE GREAT RTS's
RTS FROM PUERTO RICO, RTS FORM NEW YORK, RTS FROM NEW JERSEY, RTS FROM MASSACHUSETTS. AND MORE RTS FROM OTHERS TRANSIT AUTHORITIES COMING SOON!! CHECK ON WWW.NOVABUSRTS06.50MEGS.COM
It appears that the rear door on those new 300 series Orions are giving people trouble. I find them somewhat hard to open and they sometimes get stuck open.
I was on bus 310 today and when I got off the rear door was stuck open and the interlock wouldn't release, I could hear the driver hitting the brake to get it to release with no luck. Then I saw him shut the bus down and restart it, to get the system to reset I guess.
QSC's and NYCT Orions seem to function OK when it comes to backdoors, however I much prefer the faster closing doors on the RTS buses.
I guess you combine the flimsy workmanship of Orions with the poor maintainance at LI Bus you get lots of problems. Give LI Bus brand new buses and they still screw them up. Amazing!
LATE IN 1999 PUERTO RICO ACQUIRE THE FIRST NOVA BUS LFS 983000 SERIES. IS THE FIRST TIME WE GOT THOSE NOVA's. NOW WE GOT NOVA BUS RTS 06, TMC METHANOL(THEY CONVERT THE METANOL FUEL BY DIESEL FUEL) NOVA BUS LFS 98000 SERIES AND FLXIBLE METRO'S
THANK
ARTHUR SANTIAGO----WWW.NOVABUSRTS06.50MEGS.COM
Are AMA going to paint the LFS's any time soon? I saw photos of them on Transitalk. And they WHITE. So why don't AMA paint them?
Well, actually those buses is operated by METROBUS, they are at american company and just run only the route # 1 and # 1 EXPRESS. About the color i'm not sure why they don't has the nova's with colors. The first fleet in METROBUS was Flxible Metro's and the colors was the same has the 1997-1999 RTS AMA's. AMA always have them new buses painted. TRULY YOUR
ART
Well, with the real RTS 2150 retired and all after 17 years of hard service, I suppose it's time for me to retire my handle after 12 months of hard service. It's been great guys and I'll debut the new name very soon.
I just remembered a certain poster gave me a farewell some two months ago! How did he know I'd be changing my handle?! It's been real.
Hey, you should keep that handle in memory of the amazing RTS bus 2150.
I still have it. I accidentally posted a message with it on SubTalk. I'll post under that handle in for a day in July. 2150 would have been 18.
But, you're really not supposed to have two handles.
This new handle here is dedicated to the memory of a friend who died. She wasn't a bus either.
Oh, gee, I'm sorry to hear that. I've been thinking about making my handle more bus like and changing it to somethign like Neoplan 8698 (my favorite Neoplan bus as you may or may not more)
And, that's the Neoplan BM Suburban coach that SEPTA plans on preserving, once the 86xx and 87xx Neos are retired from service.
Yeah, I had been surprised to hear that. Just by coincidence, it was my favorite bus that was going to be restored, lol.
Yeah, I had been surprised to hear that. Just by coincidence, it was my favorite bus that was going to be restored, lol. I think it's great that SEPTA restores at least one bus from each order, at least with the RTS and the Flxibles. Did they keep any Volvo's?
They are restoring 8590, though I don't know if it's been completed as of yet. AFAIK, there is a chance that they might restore one of the Volvo artics, but I haven't confirmed that yet.
what do you ment by restoring.what by put them back to serivice again or put them in a musuem.
8590 is the Volvo 40ft bus, right?
where do they keep the rts,and fixible buses.
btw i udated my site www.geocities.com/patkylekenny/
peace out
k.o.
I don't know exactly where they keep them, but they do make an appearance each year at the rodeo.
i think they keep them at the berbrigde.some where in tiago
section of philadelphila.
i know that were they keep the 8590 bus at.
I agree. Flxible went out of business in 1996, and I'm not changing my handle for ANYTHING. Rock on, 2150.
-Flxible
This handle is dedicated to a person. I was going to change it to this for sometime. I was really going to do it May 3, 2001, but I couldn't wait.
Who is it dedicated to? Just curious....
-F.
Here she is...
Stabbing victim identified
A girl who was stabbed to death while apparently intervening in a fight Monday has been identified as a 14-year-old runaway from Houston, city police said Thursday.
Shamika Rawls was reported as a runaway in Houston in January and has apparently been staying with a friend in Baton Rouge for several weeks, Cpl. Don Kelly said.
Rawls died from a stab wound to her left upper chest, Coroner Louis Cataldie said.
A friend of Rawls' got into an argument on the telephone with a 16-year-old girl, police said.
Rawls, her friend and several other girls went over to the 16-year-old girl's apartment at 854 N. Donmoor Ave.
Rawls' friend and the 16-year-old girl continued arguing in person. The argument sparked a physical fight.
The 16-year-old girl grabbed a kitchen knife and started swinging it, trying to stab the girl she was fighting with, police said.
Rawls got between them and was stabbed at least twice in the chest. She also had a fairly severe wound to one of her arms, police said.
The 16-year-old girl was placed in the Juvenile Detention Center on a manslaughter count, police said.
I knew her. She tried to break up a knife fight and she lost her life for it. That was almost two years ago. It will be May 3. The moment she was dying, I was on a bus, a Neoplan to be exact, 4552, and I was complaining about the cold and my aching ankle which I had sprung in gym. What a fool I was.
Well, in 8th grade I had a silly habit of naming buses after people. Just the RTS and D40LFs. I couldn't think of a suitable RTS to name after her since all the good ones were taken. So instead, I gave her bus 4054, the hardest working D40LF in the fleet. You could see that bus almost anywhere everyday. Since I saw it so much it'd always remind me of her. You don't see 4054 as much as you used to, now I see 4541 more. I named that bus after her as well. But this handle here has alot more significance. I know it's silly but oh well.
Also, that whole incident involving Shamika is also how I got my original handle of 2150. On May 11, 1999, I went to her funeral. Since it was a school day I came back to school after it was over. To ease my mind, I renamed almost every bus, and I gave 2150 to myself. It was an average bus. It didn't have a very loud engine roar and it had an average look. It reminded me of me. It eventually grew on me and it became my favorite bus. Before then, it had the name Jennifer. Odd huh?
Anyway, that's the story, and that's who this name is dedicated to.
Here she is...
Stabbing victim identified
A girl who was stabbed to death while apparently intervening in a fight Monday has been identified as a 14-year-old runaway from Houston, city police said Thursday.
Shamika Rawls was reported as a runaway in Houston in January and has apparently been staying with a friend in Baton Rouge for several weeks, Cpl. Don Kelly said.
Rawls died from a stab wound to her left upper chest, Coroner Louis Cataldie said.
A friend of Rawls' got into an argument on the telephone with a 16-year-old girl, police said.
Rawls, her friend and several other girls went over to the 16-year-old girl's apartment at 854 N. Donmoor Ave.
Rawls' friend and the 16-year-old girl continued arguing in person. The argument sparked a physical fight.
The 16-year-old girl grabbed a kitchen knife and started swinging it, trying to stab the girl she was fighting with, police said.
Rawls got between them and was stabbed at least twice in the chest. She also had a fairly severe wound to one of her arms, police said.
The 16-year-old girl was placed in the Juvenile Detention Center on a manslaughter count, police said.
I knew her. She tried to break up a knife fight and she lost her life for it. That was almost two years ago. It will be May 3. The moment she was dying, I was on a bus, a Neoplan to be exact, 4552, and I was complaining about the cold and my aching ankle which I had sprung in gym. What a fool I was.
Well, in 8th grade I had a silly habit of naming buses after people. Just the RTS and D40LFs. I couldn't think of a suitable RTS to name after her since all the good ones were taken. So instead, I gave her bus 4054, the hardest working D40LF in the fleet. You could see that bus almost anywhere everyday. Since I saw it so much it'd always remind me of her. You don't see 4054 as much as you used to, now I see 4541 more. I named that bus after her as well. But this handle here has alot more significance. I know it's silly but oh well.
Also, that whole incident involving Shamika is also how I got my original handle of 2150. On May 11, 1999, I went to her funeral. Since it was a school day I came back to school after it was over. To ease my mind, I renamed almost every bus, and I gave 2150 to myself. It was an average bus. It didn't have a very loud engine roar and it had an average look. It reminded me of me. It eventually grew on me and it became my favorite bus. Before then, it had the name Jennifer. Odd huh?
Anyway, that's the story, and that's who this name is dedicated to.
Oh, and if anyone has anything negative to say about this message, or more importantly her, just keep your mouth shut! I'll flame you off the board. I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm pretty sensitive about this issue.
That actually is a touching story. Each of us has our own little way of remembering friends and loved ones who have passed away. When I was younger, my grandfather used to take the Q60 quite a bit, but I remember his propensity for waiting for a fishbowl instead of an RTS (this was circa 1980), saying it 'felt more like a bus'. To this day, when I see one of the NYBS fishbowls, I think of him.
That's not odd at all. I used to name buses here after people all the time and still do. For example, my AOL screen name (Fredman176) is derived from my favorite bus of all time, Valley Metro Flxible New Look no. 176.
And as for your friend, my condolences. It is terrible that she had to give her life for that, and I hope that she is well remembered. It is touching that you remember her that way...more than you would know. I'm sure that she is smiling down upon you for it.
Buses hold a special place in my heart as well; in fact, it was on our Flx New Looks and Grumman 870s here in Roanoke that my father introduced me to the world of buses. His knowledge of them was passed on to me at a very young age (beginning when I was two, to be exact), and most shining childhood memories of Dad are when we used to ride Downtown on the Valley Metro and have lunch at the Texas Tavern, a local historical landmark with great food and friendly local people. In fact, I learned how to count when Dad was a ridership census counter for Valley Metro; he brought a notepad and had me help him count the number of passengers who got on and got off the bus. Later on, Dad and I would ride the new buses when they came to town and critique them accordingly. Dad would always go around the house, making bus jokes every now and then, and imitate bus sounds, much to my delight and laughter.
Dad was born legally blind, so when Mom was at work and could not get us around, the local Flxes and Grummans were our family car. And later on, the same held true for the Gilligs when they came in. The staff of our local TA got to know us well and some came down to see Dad play piano at Luigi's, the local Italian restaurant where he played when he was not teaching music at home. They all loved him and were upset when he was taken away from us all in 1994 from a sudden heart attack. He was only 63; I was only 17 at the time.
Fortunately, I have been blessed with the opportunity to preserve this part of my past and our local history as curator of a transit museum, which includes one of my favorote Flxes and a Grumman from our TA roght here in Roanoke. We just restored the Grumman, and every time I ride it, I always think of Dad and the good old days, wishing he was sitting there riding with me...
-Fred Donaher
Wow, I'm very sorry about your father. It must've been a tough loss. I never see mine much anyway, let alone ride the bus with him. It must've been great doing something you love with someone you love. I was very hurt when we lost Shamika. As I was grounded at the time, I couldn't really ride any buses to get it off my mind.
Even though Shamika died on May 3, no one found out until May 5th. The last bus I ever rode before I found out was RTS 2088. I used to hate that bus, but that day it was great. I didn't feel right for a long time after May 5th and I always think about her alot. This easter I saw a a person who looked EXACTLY like her. On May 3, 4541 should be running on the 4 as usual, I'll ride it in her memory. Hopefully, I'll find 4054 as well. It's always easier to find artics though.
Anyway, I'm sure your father is quite proud of you for all of your accomplishments, bus related or not. Until someone builds a time machine, memories are the best thing you can have of a loved one.
You have that absolutely right; sometimes it would be nice if time travel was possible.
To a degree, riding our Grumman at the museum is like a time machine for me; it takes me back to my childhood and the days of innocence, when I didn't have a care in the world to worry about. And I feel that Dad is riding it with me in spirit.
Perhaps you may feel the same about Shamika when you ride that special bus.
-F.
Saw a commercial while watching Roswell tonight on WB for John Deere-lawnmowing equipment?! Is it the same company that makes the engines in QSC Buses 404 and 437? I just found that very awkward to see.
And are there any plans to extend the John Deere engines in any more future orders of buses because I rode both buses and they sure can fly. They're the best buses in QSC Lot. LI Bus should consider these engines in their buses instead of those Cummins Engines.
QBX1#404Gary
Q66#437Gary
N22#179Gary
Worker at John Deere accidentally puts the bus engine in the riding lawnmower!! It would put Tim Taylor in "Home Imporvement" to shame!
OOH...garden tractor with RTS power.....OH ARRH AHH AAAAAHHH! :)
-Flx the "Tool Man"
>>They're the best buses in QSC Lot. LI Bus should consider these engines in their buses instead of those Cummins Engines. <<
Yeah that would be a dream. I've never rode a John Deere CNG yet but I hear they can even dust the Series 50!
John Deer wants to get on NYCT & nycDOT list of approved engine vendors. They are working hard at this depot to show that they know the meaning of SERVICE & SUPPORT.
Mr t__:^)
I'm intrigued. I'm in Roanoke, VA. Where is the closest place I can ride one?
-F.
Deere's been making tractors and the like for a looong time. Their dabbling in marine and commercial diesels has been a fairly recent venture.
C
You never know...it could be a passing brain fart by the corporate think tanks, or they just might be on to something...who knows, let's wait and see.
During the past few months, several BusTalkers have mentioned the NewFlyer C40LFs' problems with heavy snow. Here in Chicago, the CTA has been operating NFI D40LFs for the past five winters, even during the blizzards of 1/99 and 12/00. As far as I know, few (if any) have gotten stuck.
I'm just wondering if the weight of the roof-mounted CNG tanks combined with the low ground clearance could have been the source of the problem with NYCT's fleet. Could that be possible?
Did the Orion VI HEV Low-Floors have traction problems, too? Just curious.
-Dan
CNG is a good thing, so is low floor, but if you put both together, beware. The NFI C40LFs would, as ChicagoDan I assume is trying to say, be very good if they were either C40HFs or D40LFs. C40LF is probably least dependable. Now, if I had a choice, I'd prefer the CNG, since that is what everybody is itching for nowadays. The low floor is not popular with many riders. I have no clue why. Possibly people count the seats and realize there are 4 less or something.
new flyer artics had the same problems and they are diesel buses.
I see what you mean, Hudson. I was actually referring to buses getting stuck in the snow, but I didn't consider other traction problems such as the NFI Artics' control problems on ice. Poor choice of words on my part.
-Dan
i hope septa new flyers do have Traction Problems.because
in the winter there are many hills a many snowly roads like the rt35
bad traction problem in philadelphila don't mixed.all these years i seen septa bus slow down in snow last thing they need is a bus with more traction troble.
Then visit The Flxble Assembly Line! Maybe some of have seen it but not come back because of no updates. Well we start updates every week!
Come back often for Flxible history and great photos!
Forgot The Address to the site!:)It's Flxibles.50megs.com
nice web site
nice web site address
WHERE? WHERE? GOTTA SEE IT!!!
-Flxible
Washington Post columnist Bob Levey has a column today on why tourists don't ride Metro buses.
Levy's column
Interesting article.
I think the reason a lot of DC tourists favor the Metro (subway, that is) is because a subway is a lot less common that buses. So, tourists use the Metro as not only a means of transportation, but as an attraction itself. The first time I went to DC when I was in 4th grade, I asked to go to attractions far away as an excuse to ride the Metro. And what little I knew about buses at the time, DC's buses looked the same as the ones in my hometown. (well, not really, the fleet was mostly Flxible Metros and Flxible New Looks in 1992, but that was familiar enough.)
On the other hand, the visitor to DC from another big city might quickly get over the novelty of the subway, and use the subway and the buses just as they would use them in their own city.
And it's true that most people live in the suburbs, where rail transit does not exist and buses are for people who work at McDonalds and clean houses. I ride Metrobus all the time when I am in DC, and the ridership characteristics there are so diverse that one really cannot place a label to the entire group. Sure, if you ride the W6 or something, you will get that bunch which suburbanites try to avoid; but your average, transit-indifferent suburbanite would probably think again about buses if they took an outbound trip of the N2 at 5.00p.
Plus, one of my favorite features of Metrobus is probably one which makes it most daunting to the unknowing tourist: really confusing route numbers. Average suburban tourists in, say, Chicago have a hard enough time remembering that the 146 goes to the aquarium and the 151 goes to Lincoln Park. I'd like to see tourists in DC try to remember that the 30, 32, 34, 35, AND 36 all go to Georgetown; the L2 goes to Adams-Morgan but not the L1 or L4; and the N2 or N4 will give you a pleasant ride up Embassy Row, but steer clear of the express N7 which won't let you off until at least Wisconisn Avenue. All of these confusing route numbers on top of the fact that a lot of destination signs randomly add punctuation to the route marking. I've seen buses on route 42 that display -4/2, and how is the tourist supposed to know that the J2 is the same route as the J-2, or that the 97 is the same route as the ..97 ?
And for my own selfish sake, I hope all of these confusing features remain long into the future. They make Metrobus one of the most intriguing and fun-to-ride systems in the country.
For the tourist's (and commuter's) benefit, the fares are leaps and bounds simpler than they were two years ago. Now, most routes of interest to the tourist cost $1.10 regardless of distance or jurisdictional boundary crossing, and I don't think the 25 cent rail transfer fare is too confusing.
So I think it's kind of cool that Metrobus is one of the last untouristed places that is so close to the tourist destinations themselves. It's kind of like a cool little secret for those who live in the DC area and those who are not afraid of buses.
I like it the way it is, just as long as the buses continue to be well-patronized.
[I've seen buses on route 42 that display -4/2, and how is the tourist supposed to know that the J2 is the same route as the J-2, or that the 97 is the same route as the ..97?]
I saw a route 97 bus outside Union Station that had "0097" on the rear sign, and I saw a "-54/" on another Flxible somewhere. That's a preoblem Metrobus has that Metrorail doesn't (unless you count the new public address signs that say the next train is OOS when it isn't).
If WMATA gave out free D.C. bus maps (and I mean of the entire District of Columbia), It may also help. I mean, bus maps go for a buck and a half, and you get D.C. and either Maryland or Virginia. When we were on 7th and H Streets NW, my mom wanted to go to some mall which she said was located in Georgetown. There are no subways that go directly there, so the bus was the only option. The only thing was that the only bus map we had was one that had the part of D.C. that doesn' include Georgetown. It ends a couple of blocks east of the Capitol, the Potomac River, and, IIRC, North K and South E Streets. Sure, it may show most of the tourist attractions, but it doesn't show which buses run past the Zoo (in case you have someone who can't walk the half mile from the Woodley Park station) or Georgetown.
I always thought of Metrobus in the suburbs, more as feeder routes for the Metro. I may be a tad bit wrong, but every route, at least in Montgomery county, serves at least one Metrorail station. About the bus routes, it appears that they like to bunch them together, and that can get confusing.
About the subway, I think tourist favor it not because it's just a subway and can zip through everything without having to deal with traffic (that's why the NYC subway is so popular among tourists, you would have to be crazy to take a bus in manhatten, and of course I was crazy enough to do it so I could try to ride one of the newer RTSs) but also because it's such an advanced system. The stations are amazing, the trains are amazing for their age, and just a lot more. Maybe they dont' know everything, but at least it's a great and comfortable and speedy ride to the attractions that are out there.
About the punctuation, I don't really think they always did that, did they, or was it always like that. Maybe because I had been young back when those Bs and 1992 Orions were running around, but I don't remember the number signs having the punctuation they have now. Anyway, I don't think it really should mess people up. Maybe it's because I used to ride Metro a lot when I was little, but I think someone could figure out that they were the same route, and if not, they could ask. Besides, how often is puctuation used in the naming of a route? If it had been letters like JA2 or BB97, that could be a big problem.
As a tourist who has visted New York, even though I REALLY like buses, Im afraid the subway win's hand's down for one reason-- SPEED.
The poor old MTA bus takes ages to get from one end of Manhatten to the other. When you find the correct line A,B,C etc you usually travel
in the right direction and in an easy to follow manner at a decent rate of travel. The guy from the Washington Post is looking at his article from his own Eyes instead of thinking like a tourist.
The bus does have ONE great advantage all the Driver's I came across and I mean ALL OF THEM were very helpful AND polite--- I kid you not
and that was day or night.
That's pretty f*cked up...while some valid points are made in the article, the driver has a pretty slaphappy attitude about it and is OBVIOUSLY trying his damnedest to get under the reporter's skin. No wonder so many people are jaded on riding the bus. How RUDE!
He's just playin' . . . if you read closely you'll see that Levey and the driver have been riding together for two decades plus, so it's jovial nettling among friends. And I prefer a spirited driver like that one (and like the anti-G.W. Bush driver who sometimes does the E3 out of Friendship Heights on Sunday afternoons) to the silent, sullen, grunting chaps who don't even respond to one's valedictory "thank you" upon leaving the bus.
C
I see; in that case, I agree. Nothing like a spirited bus driver!
-F.
COULD THE MODIFY THE DAMN BUS SO IT IS LIKE THE METRO TRAINS?
Nah...then the buses would lose their character. I like the Metro rail, but I'd MUCH rather ride a Flxible Metro on ground through D.C. than a Breda any day!
what I meant was the wmata shoud make the interior of the buses like the trains
Oh my gosh, no! Metro buses have magnificent interiors, MAGNIFICENT! If they did, the world would come to an end! Besides, buses with commuter rail seats wouldn't be great. I love those soft (or hard witht the older models) seats, and those amazing wooden interiors. THAT makes a Metrobus special, not any Metrorail interiors. Besides, why is there a brown stripe on Metrorail trains? Why BROWN? WHY?
And The regular exterior
I understand, but I've always loved the metrobus interiors.
Not some brown stripe
Because it was the style of the late '60s-early '80s (a.k.a. '70s). Everybody wasn't that color coordinated back then. Why were SEPTA's fishbowls exterior color gold and white with a maroon belt rail, and the interior colors were blue and white and the seats navy blue with black stripes and red piping? Doesn't exactly match, does it? Just like the washer, dryer, refrigerator, and stove came in avacado green and brown. WE were very tacky back then. SEPTA is in the process of taking our Silverliners out of the '70s by redoing the interiors (and PATCO should do the same). That is my opinion.
Yeah....there was a lot of color crossover in the 60s and 70s. We have a museum bus that way; it is a 1973 GMC 3302 "Baby Fishbowl" which came in orange with silver sides, red wheels, and chartreuce (bird egg) green plastic seats. VERY weird combo indeed!
-F.
I'm feeling you on that; I like the wall-to-wall woodgrain in MetroBuses. Kind of gives each bus an "at home" feel across the board. I especially liked it inside the NABI 5200 artics; it made me feel like I was in a Flx Metro.
-F.
See that's the bus that looks like a Flxible a NABI 5200 artic
I always get carsick riding in the back end of those things, as I did on Friday riding the Q2 from Silver Spring to Shady Grove. It didn't help that the guy behind me reeked of booze . . . by the time I staggered off I was extremely nauseated!
C
if you hate getting sick on that bus then ride on a different bus like a Flxible.
Amen. Flxes are better anyway.
-F.
Oh, that's what you meant, interior wise. I thought you meant the basic design of NABIs and Flxibles. I know that I'll be bombarded with angry posts, but at one point (of course I was like 7 years old) I thought that Flxibles and Gilligs were identical. Plus, I see a few similiaritys, although not much, between the Orions and Flxys.
Flxibles and GILLIGS?!? NO WAY!!! Those are apples and oranges for sure!
OK, you must be in a town where both featured black around the windows; sometimes this makes both look similar to one at first. I can see some similarities in Orions and Flxes as well, particularly from the inside with the angled sides.
-F.
Well, I was talking about the WMATA Flxibles and Ride-On Gilligs (the only ones I really knew of, for SEPTA had neither of these), both having black trim. I thought they were the same because they both had that side drivers side window slanted. The Orion Vs looked different despite that, since the wall of the bus was cut back to the slant. That was when I first starting discovering how the V of WMATA and I of Ride-On were from the same company. Or, actually, I thought that the WMATA and Ride-On were copying their designs from each other sorta.
I see; yeah, the Gillig is the only other bus I have ever seen to have the slanted driver's windshield besides the 870/Metro. Ant others that anyone out there knows about?
-F.
The Orion VI looks like the richer cousin of a typical Flxibe Metro. It has zest. Too bad it sucks, as most Orions do, but at least it looks nice.
I'll admit that I used to hate the design of the Orion VI, but 3 out of the four sides actually look decent. It's not too much of a bad ride either, if you don't mind the occasional moaning coming from the engine compartment.
Huh? Where do you get that? The Flx Metro looks better by far!
-F.
Yeah...sort of, especially in the older WMATA scheme. 5207 was my first artic ride; it was interesting! If only Flx made an artic...maybe they do in China. That would truly be a flexible bus...LOL!
-F.
Because it was Jackson Ghram's favorite color.
Oh, that's all? Gee, why couldn't it have been blue? Would've been wierd if it was black. Hey, who is Jackson Ghram anyway?
one of Metro's early promoters and I think first president. the story goes that he LOVED brown and put his foot down about the colors.
the jackson e. graham building at metro center, metro's headquarters, is named in his honor.
i think blue woulda been nicer too. the new caf cars have nice interior colors, though.
c
He was the first General Manager but he resigned before the system opened. Light blue would have been good for the interiors, similar to what is on the back of the MetroBuses.
Yeah, but as far as interior panels go, I don't care for the fake woodgrain on the buses. Breda Beige beats it anyday, as would a tasteful executive-gray (possibly patterned, as on an airplane). The plaid-esque paneling on the Rohr cars is alright but a little loud -- something more understated would be apropos.
C
As long as they never go back to those hideous red seats that were in the RTS's. The springs on those things were so bad that you would sink so far down that you'd barely be able to look out those wonderful scuffed and fogged up windows.
Hmm....red seats? Were those the same used on the WMATA Fishbowls?
-F.
Red seats on buses really give a bus a different look on the inside; our Grumman 870s here in Roanoke had red seats and I SWEAR they reminded me of sitting in my Grandma's kitchen. Her table chairs were from the 1940s and were in this very same bright red. Very interesting indeed.
-F.
These seats were different than the ones in the fishbowls or the Flx new looks. They were rather slippery and on the aisles, some of the cushioning would stick up and if you didn't watch it, it would snag your clothes. I can't really describe the look. I guess its something similar to whats in the newer Orions as far as shape, but that's where the comparison ends. During their last years on the streets of DC, I think I was on maybe 2 of them, so my recollection is a bit hazy.
It was like the new Orions. Looked like a DC Metro Rail car except darker colors and the seats sagged. Alot.
If you wanted to see hideous red seats, let's go into the wayback machine and ake a ride on The Red Arrow Fishbowls, they had ugly red seats (it went great with the green-tinted windows).
Were they flat seats without bolstering? If so, they may be similar to those on our old Grummans, color and all.
-F.
They seemed to have a bit of cushioning. I've seen similar seats on the older Grumman's down in Hampton Roads. I think they were Grummans, it was around 1986 that I last rode a Flxible/Grumman down there from Va. Beach to Lynhaven Mall.
Wow...I wonder where those Grummans are now?
I know that HRT still has some 1991 Flx Metros in service; I have yet to ride a Hampton Roads bus in regular service. They have been buying Gilligs in later years.
-F.
Yeah, executive grey is nice; that is what is on the inside of our Gilligs here in Roanoke..it goes nicely with their blue seats with multicolor stripe cloth centers. I, for one, like faux woodgrain in buses; gives them a nice homey feel.
-F.
Oh...you mean with the rear-facing seats? Yeah, that would be neat...I'd like to see that!
-F.
Mmmmmm, you people are wondering why tourist don't ride WMATA buses. Here are a few ideas.
Last year at this time WMATA had
-Old buses
-Older buses
-Ugly buses
-A bad paint scheme
-Unreliable buses
-A confusing route system
-A faster rail transit system
-And buses that liked to insert punctuation into the already confusing destination signs. I have no doubt that this was done by Flxibles with their hideous Vultron signs.
And they still have most of this stuff today....
When you have a system that is almost deliberately confusing of course no one is going to want to ride it except bus fans. And answer me this, why would a non-busfan want to ride on a bus that's older than them? Plus WMATA doesn't have anything that's really visually appealing. Flxibles sometimes, but that paint scheme, I don't know. And has anyone ever seen a Flxible sag into a stop during a rainstorm? 'Nuff said. The RTS are great looking buses, but, remember this: RTS BUSES WITH BLACK BUMBERS ARE UGLY, THEY ARE VERY UGLY!!!!! Orion Vs look like something I designed in 1989 with a box of legos, as for Gilligs and NABIs, if a tourist wanted cheap shoeboxes, I suggest they go to Pay-Less. Those MANS make me wanna throw up! Could they have designed an uglier bus, oh yeah, the Orion II. Another prize pig from Orion Bus Industries. So when tourist see a bunch of ugly, dirty, badly painted (IMO) buses, they're not going to want to ride them, especially if they can ride Metrorail and get there faster and not have to make heads or tails of the J2 or the "-?J/2! on one of the ugliest buses this side of the Ikarus.
That's why tourist don't ride WMATA buses. That's why tourist don't ride most buses. But, I'm sure they'd ride an NYC bus before a WMATA bus, most likely out of neccesity though.
Personally, I like it when the bus approaches and the destination sign reads "NNNN" or "#########". Its like playing "Wheel of Fortune" when boarding as you have to buy a vowel to figure out where you are going.
The main problem is that the bus stops are barely detailed to let anyone know where the buses go, if they even have a route number on them. There is a golden opportunity for someone in WMATA's marketing dept. to go to hotels and promote routes such as the 30 line which goes by The Mall, Georgetown and Chevy Chase. Or, the 38B that goes by several hotels in Arlington to Georgetown and K St. in DC. The WMATA website is ok if someone knows about it before they head to DC, but everyone forces out of towners to ride the subway at rush hour and get caught in the rush hour chaos.
Of course, one could always ask the operator where he's going to if its not evident.
The operators for the WMATA are supposedly more friendlier with that sort of thing than SEPTA. But, you have to understand that there are a lot of bustops out in the country that don't even have the numbers on the sign. I think one of the most confusing things is how there are like ten routes on one schedule. Then you have to search and everything. Oh, and a lot of bus stops have a schedule center on them which is good and that has the desination and such. However, that is on some, not most, of them.
Aside from the confusing route system, the items on your list are not really of much concern to the lion's share of tourists. Tourists, for the most part, really do not care what a bus looks like, either the bus itself or the paint scheme. FOr crying out loud, they flock to those Tourmobile buses in DC and those, in my opinion, are flat out ugly buses dressed in an even uglier paint scheme.
As I said in my first reply to the original post in this string, it has EVERYTHING to do with the routes. Again, it's kind of nice that the Metrobuses are some of the few untouristed places in central DC.
Believe me, asthetics are very important to those who are not transit dependent. As for tourist buses, they are just that, tourist buses. It's not like you'll have to ride on an ugly slow bus WITH the riff-raff.
>>>Again, it's kind of nice that the Metrobuses are some of the few untouristed places in central DC.<<<
Mmmmm, tell that to WMATA higher-ups.
Seriously, you really make Metrobuses sound ten times worse than they really are. They aren't dirty and grimy and everything like that. They look decent. Just because you don't like the design or the design isn't appealing at all to anyone doesn't really have that much to do with everything. I highly doubt that someone would ride an RTS in NYC just because it "looks interesting." Believe me, as long as people have a comfortable ride, they won't care what the bus looks like. It all depends on the interior, or mostly anyway, unless the bus looks extremely retro, and by extreme, I mean, way past RTS styling. More like how MCI is starting to make their newest designs like, only better. I think the main reason they don't ride them is because of Metrorail and what a developed system it is. As for the punctuation, I really don't think it was always like that. Plus, how can that happen? I mean, I thought the number slot was programmed for just numbers and letters, not everything else. Anyway, I really think you are calling the average tourist really stupid. I'm sure that someone with a decent IQ can figure out its some kind of glitch or something. It's not like it doesn't happen in every other transit authority in the US and beyond. Just not as often.
History lesson junior, when the RTS demo was introduced in NYC, people only rode it because of how it looked. It was a madhouse trying to catch the demo. And puh-lease, no one cares about how a bus looks on the inside as long as it ain't dirty. But people DO care how it looks on the outside. Asthetics ARE important, I can't stress that enough. Case in point, the Dept. of Subways got rid of grafittied subway cars because some people weren't riding the trains due to how they looked on the OUTSIDE. No one cares if a bus is comfortable. MCI styling is overrated as is that of the so called "European Coaches." GM was 30 years ahead of them with the RTX and the later RTS designs. Ever looked at a European bus from the 70s? It's NOT a pretty sight.
Yeah...many Euro buses are pretty ugly. And yes, the RTS was ahead of its time. I understand a prototype rolled around in NYC as early as 1975-76?
-F.
Very true; style makes a bus more pleasing to the average eye. When our Grumman 870s came to town in 1979, a front page photo teaser and full article made big news about their advanced styling.
22 years later, our museum ran a group of college professors across town in a restored example during one of our functions; many complimented us on our "good-looking bus". In fact, as I pointed out a passing Gillig (one of the buses that replaced our Grummans) to a professor, he exclaimed that our bus looks "more elegant" than its successor.
To all of you out there who have an eye for style, I couldn't agree more.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Well, it's a new bus, of course, or it was at that time, at least. Who doesn't want to ride a new bus? I truly think that's an inaccurate statement. Most if not all people only like MCI buses and don't care for transit buses at all. Now, do MCIs look amazing on the outside? No, but the interior has bathrooms and comfortable seating and the works. So they love it. Also, are you telling me that you would rather ride those spring through the seats New Looks than a bus with a reclining chair for your comfort? Anyway, if a bus or vehicle does look terrible on the outside, it gives the customer to be an impression on what the interior may look like. If a bus is spectacular on the outside and god awful on the inside, they may rie it because they dont' have a choice, but they aren't goign to like it, that's for sure.
Hmm...well, there is that. At nearby Blacksburg Transit, my favorites as far as looks and engine sound are the 1986-87 Flx Metros, but they have bland tan and brown interiors with plastic seats. Same with the equally good-looking 1989 RTSes there.
On the other hand, they also have 1998 New Flyer D40LFs. Personally, I think their styling is hideous, but they have nicely decorated interiors with nice, multicolor fabric seats. And their clanky Series 50s sound like lawn mowers; however, something about the vibrating seats puts me right to sleep.
-F.
Yeah...the Luminators in our Gilligs did that when the signs were changed over for new routes last year. The 91s went completely blank, and the 94s looked like the routes were written in Japanese.
Many of them rolled around with number cards inside the windshield until the signs were fixed, and the old-fashioned roll signs in the 88s kept falling off the roll. It was quite amusing.
Which paint scheme do you mean? The one with the grey on the bottom or the one with the interconnecting red side stripes?
I agree, although not with a jaded eye. I was in DC back in 1999 and rode a Metrobus - Orion V #4318 - to downtown Alexandria on the 29K Pendelton. Usually, I take the DASH buses, but the 29K headed down King St into Alexandria. If you took a 29 with the wrong letter (say, the 29T) you'd land somewhere you might not want to go. (I do recommend that anyone headed to Georgetown get off at Foggy Bottom/GWU and transfer to a bus, because there is no Metrorail service.)
At least with the (T), all the routes are all numerical, and even then tourists don't take the buses (except for the #93 that stops right at Bunker Hill monument and the #1 to Harvard) - they take the tourist trolleys or the duck boats.
WMATA would do a huge favor to all tourists and everyday passengers and eliminate the number/letter combinations. Of course, that's my opinion, I could be wrong.
I think the Virginia designations are much harder to understand than the Maryland ones, because usuall a route with a letter suffix means that it's basically the same route, only express or limited or something of that matter. So that's really confusing.
I hope to be able to ride the Boston T myself before it beomces less than 99% RTS. In Houston, nothing is alpha mumeric combinated. Just plain route number, and route.
WMATA would do a huge favor to all tourists and everyday passengers and eliminate the number/letter combinations. Of course, that's my opinion, I could be wrong.
As confusing as at appears at first, WMATA's alphanumeric route designations are actually quite useful and really make a lot of sense. Lest we forget that WMATA does not maintain route numbers like 29K and 4S and C21 and Z29 just for the hell of it, but rather because they have such an intricate route network that there really is no better way to do it.
If WMATA were to eliminate the letters on Virginia routes without restructuring the actual routes, it would be even more confusing and cumbersome. Were it not for the letters, routes would be "The 16 via Little River Turpike" and "The 16 via John Marr and Ravensworth" instead of the 16A and the 16D, respectively. With almost 500 individual routes, you tell me which is ultimately easier to deal with.
All of this on top of the fact that all of these letter and numbers just make WMATA a fun system to spectate. For the transit fan, the beauty is in the confusion!
Now there are places where alphanumeric route designations are unnecessarily confusing. For instace, samTrans, the transit system in San Mateo County, California, once designated every route with a number and a letter. samTrans, unlike WMATA, only had a very few trunk-branch routes, so such a confusing numbering system was not necessary and in 1998, all the routes were renumbered to either a two or three digit designation, or a two letter designation for express routes. (also note that samTrans cut a lot of service at this time)
Also, in Toledo, Ohio, most of their routes bear a number then a letter. They have a handful of trunk-branch routes, but certainly not to the point where even the straight routes need to be lettered.
WMATA's route numbering system is appropriate, and the only one suitable for service as diverse as that which they operate.
I'd take the 16-via Whatever rather than alphanumeric crap. It's alot easier to remember, in fact, you don't have to remember anything, it's right on the dest. sign.
Metrobus only has the destination on the signs, so they wouldn't post the via things.
It would help if they did put "Via" on them. For example, the 30 line could say "Friendship Heights, via The Mall or via Georgetown". The N line could have "via Embassy Row". It may make them a little more inviting.
Some of the 4000 series Orions will say VIA GEORGETOWN on the 30s on the small LED next to the door in the front window.
Really? wow, I hadn't seen that before. I think the newer Orion V's, the 2100-2200 series no longer have that little box that is used to say "Local" or "Express". They just have the box for the run numbers.
Hmm, I remember on the Orion VIs, the side destination sign had no route number at all, just the destination. I thought that was really odd. So, on the newer Vs, they just have the express/local thing in the destionation sign?
I forgot that the Orion VI's don't even have a side route number. But, yeah, I guess if a bus is Express, it just says so in its destination sign instead of having the extra box on the dashboard that would normally display that.
The LED screens next to the route-number boxes on newer buses provide some additional information. For example, as Oren noted, 30-series buses display 'VIA GEORGETOWN,' express buses display 'EXPRESS,' etc., etc.
C
I saw an Orion VI with the sign on the front reading: "P6 ANACOSTIA STATION."
I think it just said "ANACOSTIA STA" on the side.
That is odd. In the NYC format, it would have read:
P6 ANACOSTIA
P6 STATION
It is weird. I read somewhere on this board that the driver could put anything for the route number: X-2 instead of X2, 0097 instead of 97, etc. It's like on the older buses with the rollsigns. The route number was dialed in (three rolls, one for each character) and then the destination on a separate roll. I believe MSBA (now LIB) had a similar system except that the route numbers were on one roll, and the destination on the other. Therefore making it possible to sign a bus "N6|BABYLON" (The N6 doesn't go near Babylon).
Having no route on the side sign makes no sense. Why don't they move to a system similar to New York's, where all you have to enter is a number and the route and destination are shown automatically.
Did you have a chance to watch the full scroll series?
WMATA might have programmed the front sign to say P6 ANACOSTIA STATION on a single reading, then the (smaller) side sign to say "ROUTE P6" on the first scroll then "ANACOSTIA STA" on the second scroll, or something like that.
On Luminator signs, it is possible to program front sides and side signs to display completely different messages, even if they both share the same code keyed into the ODK. I think there is also an option to directly program the front sign only, and then to have the side sign automatically convert that message to fit onto the smaller side sign by using abbreviations or scrolling. This is probably what NYCT does.
However, I would not be so sure of either, because those Luminator signs can act funny sometimes.
No, they do not scroll with the route. I saw an F4 bus at New Carrolton going to Silver Spring and it scrolled from "Silver Spring" to "Station" and then back to "Silver Spring".
Did you have a chance to watch the full scroll series?
WMATA might have programmed the front sign to say P6 ANACOSTIA STATION on a single reading, then the (smaller) side sign to say "ROUTE P6" on the first scroll then "ANACOSTIA STA" on the second scroll, or something like that.
On Luminator signs, it is possible to program front sides and side signs to display completely different messages, even if they both share the same code keyed into the ODK. I think there is also an option to directly program the front sign only, and then to have the side sign automatically convert that message to fit onto the smaller side sign by using abbreviations or scrolling. This is probably what NYCT does.
NG
However, I would not be so sure of either, because those Luminator signs can act funny sometimes.
I don't think it does scroll. The only thing I've ever seen the side sign do is say "Good Afternoon" and then flip back to the destination, such as "Tysons Corner" or Crystal City, but no route number would come up with it. Just the front sign and the back have the route numbers.
Interesting. Is that just on the Orion VI's, or on all of the 2000 Orions with Luminator signs?
I know that the 2000-2100-2200 Orions do not have a separate route number display as do the 9600-4200-4300-4400-3900 Orions (and all Flxs with Megamaxes, for that matter), but the single-section signs can still display the route number, just like they do on most other transit systems using the same Luminator sign systems.
Yeah, the Orion VI's are the only ones that I've ever seen this happen on. The other Orion V's, (2100-22xx) do have the route number on the side destination as you said. Not sure why the VI's were programmed this way.
2219 DOES AS THE VIs DO. I have seen 2219 many times and I noted its side sign will only read FRIENDSHIP HTS, but never 32 FRIENDSHIP HTS. Always thought a route sign would be installed on that bus but it never was. My reason for thinking that was because it was the first 2200 WMATA Orion V I saw.
So that all the signs don't have to be reprogrammed when new routes come.
That is correct.
Actually, the (T) has three routes that are alphanumeric - CT1, CT2, and CT3. So my previous post is moot - I almost always call the routes by number, such as the 111 to Woodlawn, the 70A to Central Sq, and the 245 to Mattapan.
When you come down to it, it is easier to designate which WMATA route operates in which state, rather than make it all numbers. It makes a huge difference when taking a 2T vs. a T2, because they could be several miles apart in different states
The (T) could also take a page from WMATA and standardize the routes alphanumerically; the (T) is due for a change and simplifying the routes and schedules would be a step in the right direction.
What's so hard about remembering the 30 runs in VA, and the 40 runs in DC? There's no reason to complicate things when you don't have to.
Well, it's not that hard standardizing the system numerically. I know that SEPTA uses number series for their routes. Like route 1-90(I know 90 doesn't exist anymore) and 121(I dont' know why it's called that) are city routes, and routes 91-314 are suburban transit routes. The 200 series routes are train to bus routes, and the 300 series routes are generally mini bus shuttles or routes. However, I understand what you mean about the 2T and the T2. However, they really run separately, and don't connect at all, as with most routes that use the same letters and numbers.
121 was formerly the 45. Why it was changed, I do not know. Currently, there is no 45.
You know, now that I think of it, it would've made more sense to have kept it the 45, since a lot of the route runs with the 44. Its like the 124 and 125, and H and XH.
That is how it was. In fact, some 44 trips continue as 121s to Gladwyne. Why they aren't called 121, I do not know.
Yeah. Don't they do that with the 92 and 133. In the schedule it said that some 92 buses would continue as 133 buses. Hey, why do TA's divide routes in half? I was thinking that maybe it was because of an unbalance of ridership, like maybe on half would have more ridership than the other half. Then, different buses would be required. But, I don't know. Maybe also because the routes are too long, as well.
the 121 was formerly the 44G.
Speaking of 44 and the 44G, what is up with the suffix of the routes of SEPTA? For instance, there is the 47 and the 47m. They run up different streets, yes, but, well, it's confusing.
Well, as far as The 47m is concerned, the "m" stands for "mall" as in The Gallery. That route I think was in existence at least 10 years after The Gallery opened up (somebody else may know about this more than me). The 44g, the "g" stood for "Gladwynne", so usually if a route number has a suffix to it, the suffix will indicate either it's destination or a main feature on this route.
When was it 44G? I have a map from circa. 1985 and its the 45.
in the 1970's.
The Option order for the 140 New Flyer D60HF "Galaxy" Articulated is back, BUT has been delayed until 2002, The quarter is unknown. So my guess is that New Flyer and the DOB is trying to resolve the issues with the Articulateds. PHEW That was a close one.
However there is no new news pertaining to the new Orion 7 Fiasco.
Will Keep Ya'll Posted!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
That's good to hear about the New Flyer order. I had a feeling that was something the TA would be able to work out.
OTOH, I think you can forget about the Orion VII. Why the TA would have gone with such an unproven bus is beyond me.
"OTOH, I think you can forget about the Orion VII. Why the TA would have gone with such an unproven bus is beyond me."
...not to mention a probably very unattractive bus, based on what I have heard about its overall looks. But hey, one man's ugly duckling is another man's swan. We may never know at this point.
LOL! 2002! First it was 2000, then 2001. I'm telling you it's a conspiracy. These buses will actually arrive in late August of 2012. That's when I'm scheduled to retire! :^)
FIND SOME RTS's FROM SOME BUS AUTHORITIES ON: WWW.NOVABUSRTS06.50MEGS.COM
FIND SOME RTS's FROM SOME BUS AUTHORITIES ON: WWW.NOVABUSRTS06.50MEGS.COM
Dude, we like the RTS, but do you really have to place the link to the site several times on here? No offense but it's getting annoying.
If you post it once, we'll check it out. I understand if you put a wrong link to the site by accident but it's everyday. Post once and we'll be happy to check it out. Thank you.
B37#823Gary
Let me tell you something. I been seen the same message with the same person in the same day. I'm jut try promote my site because is a new site. If you know about the RTS site just ignore the message. I'm not post EVERYDAY THIS MESSAGE like you say, and I think I'm not getting annoying. Please don't tell me what I have to do!!
Thank
No Problem-I understand that you're promoting a new site. I've been there done that. I've checked it out and it is very good but the pics take a long time to load. But the reason why I posted what I said was because I was seeing the same type of message everyday and every post that I saw you post. You can post about your new site as your sign off. TheN we'll be happy to check it out. Keep up the good work. Hope to see more RTS pics from you real soon.
JG C40LF New Flyer #823 Gary
www.transitworld.org(like so)
RTS FROM PUERTO RICO, RTS FORM NEW YORK, RTS FROM NEW JERSEY, RTS FROM MASSACHUSETTS. AND MORE RTS FROM OTHERS TRANSIT AUTHORITIES COMING SOON!! CHECK ON WWW.NOVABUSRTS06.50MEGS.COM
do any have a septa rts buses pictures.
No
Because due to stort of buses cause by the Orion7 got a BIG FAT F from the MTA and the Articulateds are now comming next year insterad of this year.
#1740 is going to run at GH maybe on Bx5 I think. #3967 is eather going to MJQ or GH. More likely #3967 will go to Quill and to service on M79 where ALOT of people are compianing on Service Cuts with the Articulateds on M79.I not too shure on #3833,#3869,and #3874 going to. Maybe #3833 and #3869 to MJQ for M79 Service. And #3874 to GH for Bx5 Service. And others beside the JAM Scrap buses might come back into service. Like #2679-#2680 should come back into service and maybe send them to MJQ for M79 Service. And #3099 should come back to service too. And the 4 1982 RTS's that got kick out of UP should come back.
as many buses that mta has they have to bring back the
scap buses.
and what is a scap bus?
And you know this how?
In addition to that, Yukon decided to Scrap TMCs 4898 and 4899. They should be back. Also, They have the orion expresses that are no longer needed sitting around.
4898 and 4899 needed new engines. they will not be back. nyct will scrap all buses built prior to 1990 by 2003. this is mandated by new federal clean air regulations.
Why not repower them?, like the Orions?
Where did you get this information from? Or are you only saying this because that is what YOU would like to see?
BIG AL
Long time no see Big Al. He may have at least one thing right, according to Glenn Rowes roster, PA1740 is in service in the Bronx. It's not listed as O/S or scrap, but it's on the GH roster.
Hi 4054, As I stated a while back ago, 1740 and the other 3000 series soft seaters in Jamaica were sent to Gun Hill. I thought they were going to be scrapped since G.H. has no buses in service older than a 1990. But I will admit, I have no clue exactly what G.H. was planning to do with them. Mark's roster has 1740 and some of the others we sent out listed in Crosstown storage yard. It's almost impossible to tell which roster is correct. Are they at Crosstown or at Gun Hill? Mark get's his info from the paperwork he see's where he works in one of the main offices. But sometimes that paperwork is incorrect, which he has no way of knowing. Also, the roster changes so frequently, almost everyday in fact, that is yet another reason why the 2 rosters usually differ. What we need here is for somebody working at those facilities who can tell us for sure what the really deal is.
BIG AL
Glenn Rowe told me tis over by IM about 2 Days ago.
Now hear this...PA1740 is NOT in passenger service at Gun Hill. Shortly after being tranferred there from Jamaica in March, it, along with 3833, 3869 and 3874, was shipped over to Crosstown Paint shop where they now sit awaiting their fate.
Again, 1740 and the other ex-JAM scrap buses are not in service despite what Glenn Rowe's roster says.
Mark
Come on. How it could it be out of service.
I saw #1740 running on Bx26 Last Week. And I saw it again last week too on Bx29. It still RUNNING STRONG!!
Bx26 GM RTS#1740
Here's another 1982 Suburban that is still going strong: PA 1773. Had her yesterday on the Q88. School trip around 325pm as it was packed with kids. Still runs pretty good.
Q88#1773Gary
Please, in the future, DO NOT use my name in your Bus Talk postings! You can say UTC roster, but please don't use my name.
I would never use your name.
I only go by information given to me by others, including you.
We're not fighting each other, nor is it a game of "who gets & posts the info first," but we all need to work together here. When I find an error in your roster, I NEVER post it on Bus Talk, but I let you know about it. Please do that in the future, and do not post a comment like that again, especially including my full name!! Think before you post a comment.
Glenn
Individual buses are generally assigned to depots, not to one particular route or another within that depot.
The reason why Yukon is in trouble is becuase Castleton for some strange reason according to the TT roster 4/17 has 187 Orions when they only had 108 four to five months ago. Why did Yukon lose their late 6200s and early 6300s to Castleton? They used to have 6250-6349, now they have only 6329-6349. Castleton now has over half the 1999 Orions in the city, and has 34 '95 Orions for back up while Yukon has been shot dead now with just 21 '99 Orions and are now resorting to 1981-1986 RTS!!!! Why has the even spread of '99 Orions between Yukon and Castleton now turned into a domination by Castleton?
I think because alot of the Staten Island local bus routes went to Castleton. Yukon only has a few routes, the S79 and other lower frequency routes. Castleton picked up the rest. Why? Because Yukon is mainly an express bus depot and they need the space for the MCI's.
Amazingly I've only rode on those old RTS's at Yukon twice and they were rattlers! Must be a long ride on that S79. Even with the Orions it took forever.
SIRT is a much better way to travel to Staten Island (using the ferry) versus taking a (R)arely all the way to Bay Ridge then the S79 to the mall.
The wait for the S79 isn't bad. It used to be a half hour, now they have '99 Orions for the two Staten Island-Brooklyn local routes at 86th St/4th all the time, and you never have to wait to get on, just maybe two minutes once you're on to leave. And it is an even distribution. Only once in a while, you see 2 S53s leave before the S79.
Well I guess it's better but SIRT is more scenic, though the S53/79 ride over the bridge is nice.
Oh I know, the ferry to the SIRT is better.
The reason behind that is a result of the large amount of MCIs at Yukon. Yukon is not parking the MCIs at Arthur Kill Annex anymore, but at the depot. So they needed more room for the MCIs, and with Castleton's expanded exterior lot, Orions were transferred there, as well as routes from Yukon.
Yukon lost all local routes except the S55/56, 61, and 79. The 61 and 79 require a good deal of busses (79 for school routes as well as crowded busses to and from SI Mall. The 61 runs from the depot to the ferry but also has a limited route attached to it, the 91.) The 55/56 are not as busy but they do have school runs.
Another interesting fact is that a museum FLEXIBLE stored at Castleton is now stored at Yukon.
In my opinion, they gave away too many busses to Castleton, but it is good to see the RTSs back in a mostly dominated Orion local routes.
Here's something to note: the SI 6xxx Orions began in JG. I don't know why. It'd be interesting if JG traded the rest of their RTSs for some 6000s. Create the first non-RTS depot in Brooklyn. All other Brooklyn depots are all RTS.
the other disappointment is that Yukon is NOT keeping up to date on the scratches on their Orion buses. They would normally cover the back windows with plastic to prevent it-guess they gave up-shame.
It was because they wanted to CLOSE Yukon at night. To do this, they had to remove the local routes that ran 24/7 from there(S74,S78). The decision was to make Castleton primarily local while Yukno has express and shutes down after 1am or so
yukon never shuts down. there are no hawk runs out of the depot however. nyct is saving money spent to pay drillers to shuttle the buses to arthur kill rd at night and security to watch them. in addition the expected x21 and x22 created the need for more express bus storage in the depot. this service is expected to start this summer.
Saw this bus heading west on Atlantic Ave, returning to its home depot. It was leaving ENY CMF where Trevor and I saw it a couple of weeks ago with several other buses awaiting a paint job. Well it got that paint job....
s53#477Mike
Does the bus have white wheels? I guess the bus is now government regulated to 40 mph. Another bus gets her juice turned down.
S59#477Gary
[I guess the bus is now government regulated to 40 mph.]
Is the TA really doing this?
Wayne
These were assigned to E.N.Y. in 1966 and covered routes like the B56 and B22. They had strange sounding engines, not at all like the GM Fishbowls and later Flxibles with their 6V71 engines. What were they ? I don't think the drivers liked them.
Actually, those numbers were 5601-5790. ENY had the lower 5600's I believe and the rest were divided up between Jam and Flu(CS). The early Flx newlooks did have sort of a heavier sound than the GM newlooks. Triboro Coach also had some Flx newlooks from about the mid 60's which their engines had that same sound.
The low's 800's (800-829)I remember those on the q29 exclusively with the thea/c flexibles(830-861)on the 38 alot
I don't remember which numbers were without AC. Rode them on the Q23.
Just for the record, when 5601-5790 were delivered new around 1965, 5601-5700 went to East New York and 5701-5790 went to Jamaica. Flushing eventually got some of East New York's 5600's second-hand. Of course, the first TA Flxible new-look order was a year earlier, when 5001-5165 were delivered to Flatbush. But the first Flxible new-look order in the NY Metro area was the non-a/c buses mentioned in another post that went to Triboro Coach (800-829 per that post). I recollect those Triboro buses preceded the Flatbush new-looks by at least a year or two, although the TA did have a Flxible demo for awhile (I think it was in light blue paint and numbered 200).
Yes, they did sound a bit different from other buses with the DD 6V-71N engine. Actually - I think these Flxibles sounded a bit like the GM old look buses which had DD 6-71 engines. I'm also interested in knowing if these Flxibles had the DD 6V-71N or if not - which engine.
I grew up in the Bronx so I never really saw many of the 5000-5100, 5600-5700 series Flxibles and AFAIK they were never assigned to any MABSTOA depots. I have been fortunate enough to ride some of them on the Q44 route (5629, 5632 and 5641 come to mind). When I was old enough to really branch out into NYCTA territory these Flxibles were very close to being retired.
Wayne
Or perhaps Allison or Cummins ?
They had 6V71's in them as did the GM New Looks. However, they were not mounted transversely -- they were T-drive. They had a Spicer two-speed automatic transmission.
Los Angeles MTA had a whole bunch of them with the same drive trains (the 5700-5900 series out here). Yes, they did sound different -- possibly due to being mounted in T-drive configuration, and probably because Flxible used different mufflers than GM did.
(The 6000 series at SCRTD came with Cummins engines...but when they went to the 6100-6274 series, back to 6V71's. 7000's got 8V71's, 7100's got Cummins. 7200-7400 series got 8V71's. Nothing like a variety, eh?)
I guess later Flexibles got mounted transversely as they sounded like GM's. I remember the Triboro Coach ones careening down Woodhaven Blvd in the late 1960's, and the (retreaded ?) tires singing louder than the engine once they got into 2nd gear. Bus tires don't make that noise anymore, how come ?
Yes...a lot of early Flx New Looks were that way. In fact, Flxible sued GM for the rights to the V-drive layout. Did you know that the entire powertrain and engine cradle on Flx New Looks from 1967 on are completely interchangable with GM Fishbowls?
Also, it's ironic, but early Flx New Looks were years ahead of their time...almost all new buses are now T-drive as mechanics find them easier to work on. In fact, the RTS is the last of the V-drives.
-F.
So does that mean if I've acquired a Fishbowl, I can install a T-Drive? If I did, then I would want to install a 6V92TA and an Allison World B-500. That would be cool.
Maybe. Just find an early 60s Flx engine cradle and mount it up! A 6v92 Fish would be SWEET!
-F.
If I did, then would there be any modifications I need to do with the cradle, or would the 6V92TA bolt right up into that?
I'm not sure; the 92 Series came much later than the Flx New Look T-drive engine cradle, so I'm not sure it would bolt right in. You can always check into it, though. Any suggestions, folks?
-F.
Thanks - I realize that there were a few engines to choose from, but given NYCTA's dedication to this 6V-71N engine I was sure those early new look Flxibles had it too.
I often wonder if the exhaust made the later new look Flxibles (111C-D51) so loud. I rode them often as the were many of them in the Bronx (4600-4663/WF, 4664-4720/COL). A lot of them had a loud escaping air type of sound.
Wayne
I have just posted four new rosters at my web site. The all-time rosters for Cobb County (Ga.) DOT, MARTA, CATA in State College, Pa., and Houston Metro are now on-line at:
http://ctrabs74.50megs.com/
BTW, the Houston roster does have some touching up that needs to be done, however, the roster is up for the most part.
Great job! There were some things I didn't even know about! I didn't know Houston kept getting New Looks throughout the 60s and 70s. I thought it was just the initial order of the 300 "Dreamliner" buses.
I know you said the Houston roster needs some touch ups, but I'm just giving this extra info in case you didn't know...
The first RTS-01s were manufactured in 1977. We were one of the first cities to recieve the RTS model.
Metro had some MAN buses, 5 to be exact that, were numbered 3090-3094. They wrre 1986 models but they were then sold to New Orleans.
Metro had one Skillcraft bus, 3085. It was sold in 1999. I never saw it in service.
Metro had some Goshen minivans that they used on regular routes along with their Marco Polos. These were numbered in the 3200s.
Metro currently has a Compo bus on site numbered 3040. I've seen it on the orad once and it's route destination sign is set to the 80 line. It has seats that face each other.
The 1983 Grummans Rebuilds were rebuilt to Metro A specs. They sported the 1983 builders plate.
That's all. VERY good roster. The first I've seen on the internet. I've been looking for over two years too. But where did you get your info from?
man houston have a variety of transportion .like they have
neoplans 30foot,40foot,new flyer,d40lf,d60lf,and mci buses.and
much much.
nice job on the roster:
peace out
k.o.
Actually, I went back to the BusTalk archives and searched for some of your old Metro posts from November. (For those of you worried that the messages were gone forever, I was able to find them by changing my settings to read "Several Eons" and all the messages from at least October appeared.)
AFA the serial numbers, I cross checked the RTS, Flxible, and New Flyer serials with those at the OMOT web site and at Andre Kristpoan's New Flyer web site. Maybe one of these days, I'll finally write a letter to someone at Neoplan requesting the delivery lists of all the Transliners and Metroliners, and put that info online.
Is there going tobe the NYCTA roster for buses up to 1960(old looks)
Eventually, I hope to work on that, but researching the Old Looks has proven to be a pain in the neck. Perhaps I'll work on that over the next couple of weeks, but it is going to be fairly involved (at least for me it is).
When Midtown Direct service started, Lakeland Bus Lines lost a lot of passengers and had to cut back service on the 24/78 corridor to almost nothing.
Now I hear that the same will happen to DeCamp when the Monclair Connection opens.
HOWEVER!
Academy Bus Lines' New York-Point Pleasant route parallels the North Jersey Coast Line and Suburban Transit's New York-Princeton route parallels the Northeast Corridor line and both services operate a healthy schedule.
Now my first assumption would be that Suburban and Academy carry local passengers on their routes, wheras DeCamp does not and Lakeland only started carrying local passengers earlier this year and only on the 46/80 routes, and that might have something to do with it, BUT
Community Coach #77 route doesn't carry local passengers and they don't seem to have been affected by MTD, despite the fact that it competes with MTD AND Lakeland from Morristown, and the MTD from the Oranges.
What gives???
The Coach USA/Suburban service between NYC/New Brunswick/Princeton stops directly in downtown Princeton at Palmer Square, plus there is also the local traffic picked up on NJ 27 to factor in. I believe the CUSA/Suburban service also serves the Jersey Avenue area as well, where there is only weekday peak hour NEC rail service. The NEC rail line itself parallels US 1 more than it does NJ 27.
As for Academy, I think their Pt Pleasant/Asbury Park/NYC service also has the same boarding patterns, in that passengers board at locations that are not near the rail stations.
CC 77 serves Hanover which MTD does not. I can see how it will be on MARTZ after NJT/Amtrak? are in Scranton.
Lakeland's passenger loss was not really of people who ALWAYS took Lakeland. When the M&E was being rebuilt, service was cut, and extended. Lakeland marketed themselves as the "faster, cheaper" alternative to the construction-delayed M&E. When the M&E was finished, some of those transplanted rifders went back to the train, and when Midtown Direct was offered, the train people simply went back to the service they wanted anyway.
The Academy and Suburban routes were established as serving residential areas more directly. As more people moved to central NJ, housing developments were placed along the bus routes, not near the train stations. The housing was marketed as "walk to NYC bus" or "NYC bus at driveway/complex entrance"- in compatiosn, it's tougher to sell apartments and townhouses by saying "train station nearby".
Who can find the inconsistency in the NYCT RTS photo on the first page of the NovaBus RTS brochure? :)
Isn't 86XX a TMC RTS?
Also, if this be the case, look further in the brochure, there are other NYC RTSs, and one in particular looks like a GMC with a new paint job.
8634 is a TMC, and the picture of the 2 NYC buses inside back cover, the one on the left is definitely a GMC, it's a 3000-series.
You got it!
I can't really tell what the RTSs on page 2 are; they could very well be GMCs :).
I could be wrong, but it looks like it's running north on 7th Avenue away from Times Square.
So, I ask again...
Why won't NYCT deal with Nova for the RTS?
Thanks
NovaBUS's aftermarket support basically sucks. The build a decent product but suck at back it up. That's it in a quick summarized nut shell, we can get real technical about but its useless.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
What's the difference anyway? I've never known a bus to be returned for warranty service, have you?
Oh yeah, when those buses go to vendors (Detroit Diesel, Cummins, Orion, Nova, etc.), that is warranty work!
Check TT's NYC Bus "Depot" roster and you'll see each garage with a list of bus @ vendors. They are at places that are doing warranty work that the TA can not do.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
[I've never known a bus to be returned for warranty service, have you?]
In the early 1980's, the TA returned approximately 850 Grumman 870's to Grumman for warranty work. I'm sure there are many frequent instances of buses sent somewhere by an operator for work under a warranty, just like you see that for private autos.
I always considered the Grumman 870 crisis (which affected 2,656 buses) to be more of a recall.
Wayne
As some of you may know I live in an isolated north shore town called Sea Cliff. There's no decent laundromats or supermarkets within walking distance. So I have to take an N21 bus to Great Neck to do my laundry. (That's the nearest laundry on the N21 route).
So today I board bus 303. I have a small pushcart that I got to put the laundry in. But today I had a rather nasty senior driver (alot of the seniors at LI Bus aren't friendly). The bus going was empty but the driver muttered to "fold up the cart" before I board next time.
It's hard to carry the cart, a bag of laundry, and a detergent onto the bus when it's alot easier to just carry it on in the cart.
So going back I had the some bus 303 with the same driver. So I proceeded to board the same way again (with my cart open) and both the driver and passenger yell at me "fold up the cart, I told you fold it up). So I did and had alot of difficulty carrying it on the bus, I almost lost my balance and fell. The bus was crowded and passengers put their feet in the aisle (this is a common occurance at LI Bus, the pax, at least on the N20/21 are the rudest). So I accidently bump some woman's foot (I have to move to the back, no seats) who is sticking her foot in the aisle and I have to apologize.
Stupid me I even apologized to the driver when I boarded even though I feel I did nothing wrong.
So on the ride back I have to listen to cellphones and these stupid cell phone walkie talkies ringing. People play with the rings too, even more annoying. I was pretty steamed and glad to get off.
It's bad enough I live in a dead end town and have to lug my laundry onto the bus. But when mean bus drivers and rude people cross me I get furious. I know that techinically carts are to be folded up but it is difficult with large bags of laundry and groceries.
So should I report this driver? Or do I just have to carry everything (no cart) so it's harder on me?
report the incident-if LI Bus cares about its customes then i think you should. I have been to Rockville centre Depot and the drivers and dispatchers were nice to me-even when i asked for a quality control sticker. The N20/N21 come out of Mitchell Field. Best advice is to call the regular Number and air your grievences. Remember the bus number,route and the time you got on-it will help.
I guess there are two perspectives in which to view your situation. One of the bus driver, and of course your own. You posted your views, so let me detail them from my perspective as a NYCTA employee. I'm not familiar with LIB R&R, so my reply will be as a NYCTA bus operator. Maybe we can come to a mutual understanding.
You wrote, in part:
So today I board bus 303. I have a small pushcart that I got to put the laundry in. But today I had a rather nasty senior driver (alot of the seniors at LI Bus aren't friendly). The bus going was empty but the driver muttered to "fold up the cart" before I board next time.
Not making excuses for senior operators, and given the fact I wasn't there to observe his attitude, let's leave this portion aside.
The rules are simple, and are displayed on the bus itself, above the driver compartment and usually on the drivers sidewall: You may carry handbags, packages, and folded strollers on the bus during off-peak hours as long as they do not block the aisles or inconvenience other passengers. Let's add "as long as the BO feels it's safe for you to do so" because that's just the way it is today.
It's hard to carry the cart, a bag of laundry, and a detergent onto the bus when it's alot easier to just carry it on in the cart.
I sympathize with your plight, but remember, there are rules we must adhere to. Suppose the bus had to stop suddenly and your cart injured someone? I know it may seem "far fetched", but anything is possible. The idea here is to limit the possibilities!
So going back I had the some bus 303 with the same driver. So I proceeded to board the same way again (with my cart open) and both the driver and passenger yell at me "fold up the cart, I told you fold it up). So I did and had alot of difficulty carrying it on the bus, I almost lost my balance and fell. The bus was crowded and passengers put their feet in the aisle (this is a common occurance at LI Bus, the pax, at least on the N20/21 are the rudest). So I accidently bump some woman's foot (I have to move to the back, no seats) who is sticking her foot in the aisle and I have to apologize.
Sir, put yourself in the place of those other people. You should not have an open cart aboard the bus, especially when the bus is crowded.
You, by means of transporting cargo (and that's what it is) created a safety hazzard that must be addressed. I can tell you that I would not permit you to board my bus with an open filled shopping cart, especially during heavy times. You would be asking me to break the rules, and create a dangerous situation for all involved. How fair is that?
Stupid me I even apologized to the driver when I boarded even though I feel I did nothing wrong.
Then why apologize? Because you know you were creating that situation?
So on the ride back I have to listen to cellphones and these stupid cell phone walkie talkies ringing. People play with the rings too, even more annoying. I was pretty steamed and glad to get off.
So on the ride back, they have to wait for you to board with your cargo, while you almost fall, while people yell at you, while you bump into innocent peoples feet, while you create a safety hazzard (with an attitude!).
It's bad enough I live in a dead end town and have to lug my laundry onto the bus. But when mean bus drivers and rude people cross me I get furious. I know that techinically carts are to be folded up but it is difficult with large bags of laundry and groceries.
So move to a central location. Call car-service. There are other options available to you without jeopardizing someone elses safety or violating rules of the system.
It's not the fault of the bus driver, or the passengers, that you live so far from the laundromat. Consider purchasing a washer/dryer combo. Buy a car. Whatever you have to do, but don't bash a system or others because of your own selfishness.
So should I report this driver? Or do I just have to carry everything (no cart) so it's harder on me?
Why in the world would you report the driver? Because he was following his guidelines? Because he was protecting the safety of his passengers? It seems that you have a problem, sir. But the problem lies with management and not the operator.
If you have a problem with the rules, don't take issue with the messenger, take issue with the source. If you want to lodge a complaint, complain about the rule itself, but not the driver for following the rules. That's silly!
Anyway, in short, yes- you have to carry everything. Sorry.
"The rules are simple, and are displayed on the bus itself, above the driver compartment and usually on the drivers sidewall: You may carry handbags, packages, and folded strollers on the bus during off-peak hours as long as they do not block the aisles or inconvenience other passengers. Let's add "as long as the BO feels it's safe for you to do so" because that's just the way it is today. "
Well if that's the rule than I accept it. I've done this many times before on LIB and not had a problem. During busy times I can understand how carts cause a problem.
"I sympathize with your plight, but remember, there are rules we must adhere to. Suppose the bus had to stop suddenly and your cart injured someone? I know it may seem "far fetched", but anything is possible. The idea here is to limit the possibilities! "
Safety is very important, and there is nothing (but your own strength) to keep the cart from moving if the bus has to make a sudden stop.
"So move to a central location. Call car-service. There are other options available to you without jeopardizing someone elses safety or violating rules of the system. "
Limited income. Can't afford car service. And there's only one service
around here and it is very bad. I'd love to move. It's not my choice.
Until supported housing can find a one bedroom unit for me I'm stuck here. (maybe if we built lots of affordable housing instead of mostly upscale for yuppies I wouldn't be in the mess).
"It's not the fault of the bus driver, or the passengers, that you live so far from the laundromat. Consider purchasing a washer/dryer combo. Buy a car. Whatever you have to do, but don't bash a system or others because of your own selfishness. "
Put yourself in my shoes. I live in a town with no laundromat and have a limited income. The nearest laundry is a 15 minute walk. Do-able you say? Half the machines in there are broken and it's filfthy, plus the driers are expensive and are very bad. People who don't live here don't understand how bad it is. Commercial developers are considered Satan up here, so forget about any new laundries or groceries opening up.
"If you have a problem with the rules, don't take issue with the messenger, take issue with the source. If you want to lodge a complaint, complain about the rule itself, but not the driver for following the rules. That's silly! "
I hear what you say. It's not entirely the fault of LI Bus either. Maybe if we had a decent laundromat here and a decent grocery I wouldn't have to take a bus to do those things. But Sea Cliff is a dead end town, with idiots running the village government. As long as people here like cracked sidewalks, vacant stores, no shopping, and half broken filfthy laundries then nothing will change.
But after what you've said and what happened, and I don't want to go through it again I'll just have to carry it on w/o the cart.
And one more thing
I HATE SEA CLIFF!!!!!
(there I feel better now)
maybe if we built lots of affordable housing instead of mostly upscale for yuppies I wouldn't be in the mess.
It's not economical to build cheap housing. Certain things are built into all housing, yet by selling it or renting it for more, the builder can make up the costs sooner.
Since the population ain't rising all that fast. Where do you think the yuppies come from? People move on up, and then aged housing becomes available for the poor.
But anyway, since you said that your rent is subsidized, then it has more to do with the subsidy people refusing to find an equally priced apartment elsewhere. I'm sure your full rent (unsubsidized) would be the same in a better part of the area. Blame the subsidy people. You should really lodge some sort of complaint, since your village is no place for somebody who can't afford a car.
How did you end up in Sea Cliff anyway?
My housing subsidy is through an social service agency and there is alot of beaurocracy, it's much worse than the MTA.
I wound up here since no other place was available at the time back when my Mom's parents died and she had no money.
I guess there are two perspectives in which to view your
situation. One of the bus driver, and of course your own. You
posted your views, so let me detail them from my perspective as a
NYCTA employee. I'm not familiar with LIB R&R, so my reply will
be as a NYCTA bus operator. Maybe we can come to a mutual
understanding.
You wrote, in part:
So today I board bus 303. I have a small pushcart that I got to
put the laundry in. But today I had a rather nasty senior driver
(alot of the seniors at LI Bus aren't friendly). The bus going
was empty but the driver muttered to "fold up the cart" before I
board next time.
Not making excuses for senior operators, and given the fact I
wasn't there to observe his attitude, let's leave this portion
aside.
The rules are simple, and are displayed on the bus itself, above
the driver compartment and usually on the drivers sidewall: You
may carry handbags, packages, and folded strollers on the bus
during off-peak hours as long as they do not block the aisles or
inconvenience other passengers. Let's add "as long as the BO
feels it's safe for you to do so" because that's just the way it
is today.
It's hard to carry the cart, a bag of laundry, and a detergent
onto the bus when it's alot easier to just carry it on in the
cart.
I sympathize with your plight, but remember, there are rules we
must adhere to. Suppose the bus had to stop suddenly and your
cart injured someone? I know it may seem "far fetched", but
anything is possible. The idea here is to limit the
possibilities!
So going back I had the some bus 303 with the same driver. So I
proceeded to board the same way again (with my cart open) and
both the driver and passenger yell at me "fold up the cart, I
told you fold it up). So I did and had alot of difficulty
carrying it on the bus, I almost lost my balance and fell. The
bus was crowded and passengers put their feet in the aisle (this
is a common occurance at LI Bus, the pax, at least on the N20/21
are the rudest). So I accidently bump some woman's foot (I have
to move to the back, no seats) who is sticking her foot in the
aisle and I have to apologize.
Sir, put yourself in the place of those other people. You should
not have an open cart aboard the bus, especially when the bus is
crowded.
You, by means of transporting cargo (and that's what it is)
created a safety hazzard that must be addressed. I can tell you
that I would not permit you to board my bus with an open filled
shopping cart, especially during heavy times. You would be asking
me to break the rules, and create a dangerous situation for all
involved. How fair is that?
Stupid me I even apologized to the driver when I boarded even
though I feel I did nothing wrong.
Then why apologize? Because you know you were creating that
situation?
So on the ride back I have to listen to cellphones and these
stupid cell phone walkie talkies ringing. People play with the
rings too, even more annoying. I was pretty steamed and glad to
get off.
So on the ride back, they have to wait for you to board with your
cargo, while you almost fall, while people yell at you, while you
bump into innocent peoples feet, while you create a safety
hazzard (with an attitude!).
It's bad enough I live in a dead end town and have to lug my
laundry onto the bus. But when mean bus drivers and rude people
cross me I get furious. I know that techinically carts are to be
folded up but it is difficult with large bags of laundry and
groceries.
So move to a central location. Call car-service. There are other
options available to you without jeopardizing someone elses
safety or violating rules of the system.
It's not the fault of the bus driver, or the passengers, that you
live so far from the laundromat. Consider purchasing a
washer/dryer combo. Buy a car. Whatever you have to do, but don't
bash a system or others because of your own selfishness.
So should I report this driver? Or do I just have to carry
everything (no cart) so it's harder on me?
Why in the world would you report the driver? Because he was
following his guidelines? Because he was protecting the safety of
his passengers? It seems that you have a problem, sir. But the
problem lies with management and not the operator.
If you have a problem with the rules, don't take issue with the
messenger, take issue with the source. If you want to lodge a
complaint, complain about the rule itself, but not the driver for
following the rules. That's silly!
Anyway, in short, yes- you have to carry everything. Sorry.
The text was normal in this message for a second I had thought I messed up the window.
But getting back to the issue, I understand the rules and won't do it again. LI Bus does not have rules on the side of the bus I don't think, and they don't print them on the schedules. Only rule I see is a hand written sign saying "no radio playing".
Techinally people aren't supposed to eat on the bus because of the garbage it creates, but I see it rarely enforced.
It is dangerous when an empty glass bottle rolls around on the floor.
So I'll have to carry it on. My anger should not be directed at LI Bus or the driver, but the stupid town of Sea Cliff which can't have a decent laundry or grocery.
I should've said when people were upset with me about my cart "YOU CAN THANK THE NIMBY's".
Now if only we had an anti-NIMBY mafia, we'd rough up the NIMBY's and the owner of the crap laundromat on Glen Cove avenue and things would change.....fast! :-0
Well.
Everytime I ride the Q46 on a Sunday that sometimes I see a OLD Lady broad a bus with a cart open with groceries and or Stuff from K-Mart and the Driver did not tell the OLD Lady anything. This should not be a RULE at all. Sometimes I ride the Q10 from C-Town if I have to carry ALOT of stuff or Heavy Bags. BUT I don't do this with a Cart anyway. I put the stuff right next to me on the seat and the passengers don't tell me anything. SO I Very Lucky allways and the people on Q10 allways have their Mouths SHUT and some Guy will Yell at a driver if they leave them behind. Like what happin at 4:30 PM Yesterday as a bus pulls out of the bus stop and waits for the right of way to turn. The guy was saying BAD Things to the driver and somehow the Driver came out of the bus and somehow the Driver and the Guy have a fight. The Driver pointed his finger at the guy. While the Guy was Yelling at the Driver. And this Lady was trying to break up the fight and the 2 was still at it. And the Driver went back into the bus and the guy waited for the Next bus instead. I guess the Driver won by any chance.
The buses are for people, not for freight!......If that Q46 driver doesn't say anything, 2 wrongs don't make a right.......you say this should not be a rule at all. What do you have to say if a bunch of old ladies with shopping carts, and mommas with baby carriages fill up a bus on a freezing day and you can't get on?
I am confused.
In Trevor's Transitalk site, the NYC Bus List by Depot by Mark Holmes has some busses assigned to 2 depots at once. Also, there are Orions that are supposed to be stored at Edgewater that are listed at Castleton.
In TransitWorld, Glenn Rowe has a roster and some busses are not listed that are supposed to be in service according to Transitalk's site.
One site tells me NYCT is bringing back the older ones or keeping them longer, the other saying they are scrap, etc.
Is there any agreement?
Always check the dates on the rosters. Trevor's roster is dated April 17; Glenn Rowe's roster is listed as April 8.
Roster Asjustements were made at 2:10pm today to the Mark Holmes' Hosted Roster at TransiTALK.
Things should be pretty up to date at this point.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Yesterday was at the meeting of the Department of Buses had at Queens Borough Hall which was organized by PCAC of the MTA,
The private lines were taken to task and everyone agreed that its about time that the TA take over Green,Triboro,Jamaica,Command and Queens Surfice.
Maybe the beginning of the end has started.
Thank You
If that be the case, what will happen to the busses and numbering? Maybe NYCT would consider renumbering the Midwest Bus Remans from 7500s to 7100s, and the remainder of the DOT fleet fill in 7200-7999.
Also, since the busses have different colored seats (the newer Expresses with cloth seats would be OK), would they be changed to blue?
Another problem - The MCI Classics - all except 10 that have wheelchair access - would have to be retired since the ADA requirements. Or maybe they won't. They may be able to stay - or transfer them to NYBS and retire the Fishbowls. And by the way, what about NYBS in this?
This may also be a blessing in disguise if indeed this does happen, since there is a DOT storage facility with many busses. This would help with NYCT's bus shortage problem. Also, the excess Orion Suburbans may find a new home. It would also be interesting if we see the return of some of the Flexible 870s, since Jamaica has them in storage.
Let's see what will happen.
Either that or, with the alleged "surplus" of buses that were about to be sold, some of the older DOT buses (ie. the Grummans and older RTS) could be retired. We'll have to wait and see if the rumors about the TA taking over DOT service in Brooklyn and Queens are in fact true first.
While it's interesting discussion, it's also highly improbable that the NYCTA will take over these companies.
Firstly, they are privately owned, with employees who are unionized and under contract. The entire seniority system would need to be redesigned so that system picks would include Command and NYBS. Because Brooklyn is NYCTA civil service, Command employees would have a problem. NYBS would be part of MaBSTOA which isn't civil service, but does include division pegs for each driver. How NYB operators would fit in is beyond me. JBL, GBL and QSC are all TWU while NYCTA Queens division is ATU. I could go on here, but you get the idea.
Secondly, whatever the operating costs are now would increase significantly. Redesigning and outfitting garages, fare collection, administration, payroll and recored, medical, pension, health benefits, management transfers, retraining of operators and employees of all levels, etc. You would see the fare raised to $2.50 instantly.
Lastly, if this did reach actual negotiations, you would see a mass strike by the privates. I don't know that they could simply "transfer" into a seniority based system, and I'm SURE they won't accept the "bottom of the list" at the TA.
Interesting discussion, yes. A possibility? Sure, anything is.... but probable? I doubt it :-)
The TA was established by acquiring private concerns. First the BMT, then East Side Omnibus, Comprehensive Omnibus, Isle Transportation and North Shore Bus Company.
Then the biggest one: Fifth Avenue Coach Lines. They even had to create a new authority to do that.
And then, more recently, was Avenue B and East Broadway.
"And then, more recently, was Avenue B and East Broadway"
Are their remains TA or MABSTOA ?
I don't have any problem with creating QueensTOA for the privates. At least we'd save the money of paying the scumbags a profit margin. But I wouldn't expect any better service. Be nice to see a Classic painted up like a Fishbowl though.
AB&EB became TA, however the one route that remains (M9) was eventually transferred to Pier (an OA depot) in exchange for something else.
I think it was the M57
[The TA was created by acquiring private concerns. First the BMT, then East Side Omnibus, Comprehensive Omnibus, Isle Transportation, and North Shore Bus Company.]
Actually, the City's Board of Transportation, which had regulated those companies, took over their operations when they went belly-up. The state legislature created the NYC Transit Authority later, ostensibly to insulate the transit system from politics (laugh!) in general and from Robert Moses in particular.
-----
[...Fifth Avenue Coach Lines. They even had to create a new Authority to do that.]
Actually, MaBSTOA was created primarily, but not solely, to protect the jobs of FACO's employees (most of whom were illegal immigrants and thus not eligible to work under civil service.)
What about creating a new OA- BaQSTOA- Brooklyn and Queens Surface Transit Operating Authority. This OA could run the private lines.
Funny, I said that in another thread, called it QueensTOA.
[JBL, GBL, and QSC are all TWU, while NYCTA Queens Division is ATU.]
I thought Green's drivers were represented by ATU (but not Local 1056).
-----
[I don't know that they could simply "transfer" into a seniority-based system, and I'm SURE they won't accept the "bottom of the list" at the TA.
My thoughts on that:
1. When Avenue B and East Broadway died in 1980, its operations were merged into MaBSTOA. Whatever was done then could be done again.
2. I'm sure that SOME of the private carriers' drivers already want to work for Transit; once they moved over, they would be at the bottom of the list anyway.
3. This whole discussion is predicated on the assumption that NYCT would HAVE to take over the operations directly. Why?? Maybe it could just assume the oversight and bus-ownership functions from DOT, plus perform the scheduling and service planning functions, but let the companies continue to operate the routes, and maybe bid for them, too! It already happened when DOT got rid of Access-A-Ride, so NYCT has a precedent for contracting out services.
I'll miss the variety, and I prefer the interior of QSC's buses to the rather bleak one of NYCTA's. I really don't think the private operators should be taken over, this really eliminates any competition.
They could create another MABSTOA subsidiary to the TA, with all the privates bought out and merged, as was done with 5th Av Coach and 3rd Ave Railway.
Maybe so but is it necessary? Have the private operators been doing their job well enough; or does the MTA or whomever want the competition out? Are the private lines showing the public operator up?
I have no idea, I've been gone too long.
From what I read, the "privates" don't really compete with the TA, they supplement it, and some, particularly Green, have miserable service reliability that is worse than average for the TA.
Guess my thought was that the MTA wanted total domination of all mass transit.
Your reply answers my question. Thank you.
Well, the MTA or at least the new Chairman, Peter S. Kalikon, DOES want total domination, because in a recent statement he expressed the desire to take control of PATH. He was just supose to say that the MTA was in favor of the use of MetroCards on PATH, but he let his ultimate desire slip out.
One big brother type organization controlling all mass transit in the tri-state area with the strings being pulled in Albany & Trenton would be a good thing NOT.
Mr t__:^)
What competition? The privates (I think calling them dicks is appropriate) run completely different routes. The only way to have good competition is to deregulate all bus routes. Fares would rise to meet actual costs. The companies would get tax breaks to allow low-income people to get discount passes.
[Maybe the beginning of the end has started.]
I wouldn't bet any MetroCards on it.
Keep in mind that, under a past City Charter revision, NYCDOT was supposed to put all of its routes up for competitive bidding by December 1992. However, Rudy and the City Council refuse to let the bidding occur...
Why can't the bidding take place? Because DOT has not yet developed a bidding plan.
Why isn't there a bidding plan? Because the "private" carries don't want a bidding plan.
Why don't the carriers want a bidding plan? Because they already have a "sweetheart" cost-plus deal, in which the city (through DOT) ...
1. buys the buses;
2. covers ALL expenses (e.g. drivers' wages, executive salaries, advertising costs, liability settlements, "penalties" for lousy service, campaign contributions);
3. guarantees a 6% profit margin;
4. performs only superficial oversight, mostly by having the companies supervise themselves.
In other words, the "private" carriers make money JUST BY EXISTING; make even more money by spending money; and have every incentive to operate as INefficiently as possible.
Would anybody who had such a deal be willing to give it up? Of course not. The companies know they'd never win an honest (or dishonest) bidding process, so they pay Rudy and the City Council to not allow it.
Don't worry: after the next election, the new puppet mayor and place-holder City Council will do more of same.
In last night's episode Detective's Briscoe and Green mention to Lt. Van Buren that the victim had a transfer that indicated that he had been on the Q-32.
Lt. Van Buren then says "what's a dead guy living in the bronx, found in Manhattan doing in Jackson Heights?". The detectives ask how she knows that the Q-32 starts in Jackson Heights. She replies that her sister lives there.
For once the writers actually got a bus fact correct.
was the transfer still valid when they found his body?
Don't remember if it was mentioned. I've lived in Suffolk for 25 years and don't get into the city much. I grew up in Sunnyside and remember when that route was the # 15 operated by the FACC.
When did they put in the M prefix? With MaBSTOA in 1962? I know that even in 1940, East Side Omnibus Corportation and Comprehensive Omnibus Corporation busses had M prefixes, and that as early as 1956, Bronx routes (run by Third Avenue's Surface Transit) had the Bx prefix.
Do you remember the #16 from Fifth Avenue, which was 100% Queens?
The Q89 which at all times ran at a40 minute headway (as compared to CTC Q29 which from Queens Bl to 81/Roosevelt ran an almost similar route at 15-20 minute headway at the same time.
The Q89 which at all times ran at a40 minute headway (as compared to CTC Q29 which from Queens Bl to 81/Roosevelt ran an almost similar route at 15-20 minute headway at the same time.
Close the parentheses. I don't get it, first you said it ran every forty minutes, then you said it ran every 15-20 minutes.
Anyway, I have a 1940s map which shows the 16 going to LaGuardia Airport (dates it at about 1942, although it was called LaGuardia Field then). Although the article associated with it doesn't mention although the war would probably be mentioned in a 1942 article.
When was the Q29 started, and when were the FACC 16 and Q89 ended? And when did the Q89 start?
Don't recall when the put the M prefix in front of the FACC route. Probably in 62 when the city (via Mabstoa) took over the route to distinguish it from the #15 that runs up First Ave and down Second Ave
How would that distinguish it from today's M15. The Second Avenue bus was already M15 in 1940.
Does anyone have one, either in print or scanned online?
Thanks :-)
no my computer is old.
My email address at jhnwy@spec.net will be no more by the end of this month. My new email address will is the same as my screen name
Qtraindash7@aol.com.
Don't forget my homepage at http://www.geocities.com/reality569/index.html
And yahoo clubs
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/railsandtrains
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/radiosucks
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/musicinchina
Im back from my trip to Washington D.C. On somedays you will see mor flxibles than orions and backwards.
VanHool buses would be perfect for the silver line because they could put a articulation, automatic door like on all buses, and a built in gps system.
The MBTA is getting Neoplan buses for the Silver Line.
Oh You mean that the MBTA is getting a Neoplan bus that looks wierd? or a regular neoplan bus?
MBTA is getting 32 dual-mode artics, 44 CNG artics, and 28 electric trackless trolleys from Neoplan. They are based on a design Neoplan Germany has built for Swiss cities and will look nothing like anything built by Neoplan USA.
VanHool buses would be perfect for the silver line because they could put a articulation, automatic door like on all buses, and a built in gps system
Yeah, kind of like New Flyer, Neoplan, and NABI buses! Holy cry, man! Don't get us all excited with crazy subjects like that just for us to find out that it's just a suggestion.
Take a very good look at a neoplan bus it looks like a gmc fishbowl (Except for a big head)
Take a very good look at a neoplan bus it looks like a gmc fishbowl (Except for a big head)
That is an interesting opinion, but one with which I could not disagree more. Aside from the slightly bowed front windshield on Neoplans, I see almost no similarities.
* New Looks have four, large, slanted windows (plus the middle window/center door) while Neoplans have seven, narrower, rectangular windows.
* New Looks have gigantic rear windows, very few Neoplans have rear windows at all.
* New Looks have thousands of exposed rivets, Neoplans have smooth bodies.
The list goes on...
no not for septa neoplan buses
Take a very good look at the Neoplan citiliner bus it Has a old style to it
As much as I love the Neoplans, I don't think it would be fair to compare its styling to the Fishbowl.
If there was any bus in the last 20 years that - to me - resembled the GM Fishbowl the most, I'd have to go with the Orion I.
WHY?
The front really does, it has the same kind of lights that are up high and the same curve in the front like the Fishbowls.
Sorry, I should have added my reasoning my posting...
Anyway, the front end of the Orion I has that rounded look and the quad round headlamps in the front of the bus. Granted, there are differences in the side windows - the Fishbowl's windows have more space between them, while the Orion I windows were more to ADB standards, if you will - that is, closer together.
Believe it or not, the Orion Is in Nashua were my first real exposure to transit buses, aside from seeing the occasional MC-9A on the Turnpike when my family and I were traveling between Philadelphia and Cape Cod to visit relatives when I was much younger.
Overall, the roundness of the Orion I just reminds me personally of the Fishbowls. I remember when the Orion I buses arrived in Nashua, NH in 1987. At the time, Nashua Citybus had been operating some ex-DART (Delaware Administration for Regional Transit, nee Greater Wilmington TA) T6H4521A fishbowls originally built in 1969. Citybus began operations in 1985; two years later, the Orions arrived. The drivers seemed to be impressed with some of the (at the time) modern features, including the 4 speed transmission, as opposed to the two speed on the fishbowls.
In 1985, there were 8 routes: 1-North End; 2-Amherst St; 3-Broad St/Nashua Mall; 4-W Hollis; 5-(can't recall the name offhand); 6-South End/DW Hwy; 7-Crown Hill; and 8-FAA Center. Sometime in the early 1990's, the routes were restructured as follows:
1-North End
2-Amherst St
3-Broad St/Nashua Mall
4-W Hollis/NE Blvd
5-NE Blvd/FAA Ctr
6-S End/Pheasant Ln Mall
7-Crown Hill
During that time, the routes were interlined as follows: 1/5, 2, 3/7, 4/6.
A few years after the restructuring, the 1-North End line was discontinued. In 1996 (or sometime therabouts), express service was introduced on the 6, operating via DW Hwy South, instead of the local routing via Rivier College and S Main St. That service was ended two years later.
Today, the line names are the same, however, I believe that only the 3 and 7 lines are interlined (though, I think the 4 and 6 may still be paired). The 2 and 5 lines operate stand-alone.
I also remember in 1985 an outfit called Hudson Bus Lines (this was the Boston based version, not the Short Line in NYC), which operated a pair of TDH-3501 coaches built in 1967 and 1968 (I couldn't believe they still built the Old Look into the late 1960s - I guess this was before the "baby" fishbowls). As I recall, they operated one line from downtown Nashua to Northeastern Blvd, near the Holiday Inn and FAA Center. That service was taken over by the city, and still operates today as the #5 line. The buses would change the destination sign in front of a convenience store called Bud's Variety, located at the corner of Northeastern Blvd and Harris Rd. I haven't been up there in 6 years, but I heard that Bud's was closed in the late 1990's and replaced by something else, but I'm not quite sure.
That's correct; the baby Fishbowlws came out in 1969, which replaced the 3501. I saw a 1968 example at OMOT; it is a very different experience!
-F.
That's correct; the baby Fishbowls came out in 1969, which replaced the 3501. I saw a 1968 example at OMOT; it is a very different experience!
-F.
I'm not feeling you on the Fishbowl comparo; Flx New Look, maybe, but not a GM. The Orion I shares some styling cues of the New Look, particularly in the front end shape, headlight, and foremost side window areas.
It's amazing that bodystyle lasted into 1990-91; it just looks so much older than its contemporaries of the day (i.e. Flxible, Gillig, RTS, etc). If anything, it was like the GM 3501 of the late 1960s; basically a body style that looked 20 years older than it actually was. On the other hand, you have the RTS and Flx Metro (nee Grumman 870): introduced in 1977 and 1978 respectively, these buses looked 20 years newer than they actually were. Looking from that perspective, I always found the Orion I to be a step back in styling.
-F.
Actually I think the GM/MCI/Nova Classic shares more of its styling cues from the GM fishbowls.If you look at photos of a Classic it can seen in the windows.A curved windshield and 4 large windows on both sides of the bus with the smaller window across from the rear exit(except on suburbans)Plus the drivers air vents are exactly in the same spot as a bowl.Right underneath the destination sign panel.
Yeah, but those were designed to be like the New Looks though, only in a more modern version.
Yeah, that's true; the Classic was built directly from the Fishbowl platform. I like the early Classics better as they still have the Fishbowl side windows and are not so boxy; the later versions look more like a Gillig than a fishbowl.
-F.
I don't think that even The Flx New Look could be compared to The Fishbowl (unless the front end is replaced with an AM General front end). The only bus that can be compared to The Fishbowl is the older Flyer buses in Canada (not the ones that AM General based their design on either).
Right....I LOVE those early Flyers! They look SO much better than the later Flyer/AM General style. The side windows look a lot better as they are more Fishbowl-like.
The Flx New Looks share the same basic styling; and yes, the front ends are quite different. The Flx is more angular, while the GM is more rounded. Actually, the GM looks bigger all around, while the Flx looks more "slender". It's all in the styling cues.
-F.
I've never seen any pictures of earlier Flyers. Where could I find them?
I've seen them in The "Bus World Encyclopedia Of Buses". I don't know if there are still copies out there since BW went out of business, but The early Flyers do look more like Fishbowls.
At www.transit.toronto.on.ca they have pics of TCC Flyer 700's trolley buses.
The North American Bus Explorer has a feature on the Orion buses at it's web site. The URL is:
http://www.busexplorer.com/NABus/Orion.html
The first Orion I buses were actually built in 1977. Two years later, TMC built the CityCruiser under license from Orion. TMC built the CityCruiser from until 1982, when Orion opened ti's plant in Upstate New York.
That's a neat site. The Orion IV looks really neat; kind of like an RTS prototype! If only they still made those....that is the sharpest looking Orion I have ever seen! The Orion V is a good-looking bus; I have yet to see a lot of Orion VIs out there.
Also, the Orion III is different...never seen one of those. I wish I could say the same for the Orion II...that is just butt-ugly and should not be considered a real bus. Also, I didn't realize that the first Orion I is exactly as old as I am...what a trip! Definitely looks YEARS older than the RTS introduced later that year. Orions are pretty neat buses overall.
-F.
The Orion IV, which I had previously thought had never existed, looks totally different than any Orion I have ever seen. And the tractor trailer thing was an interesting idea. Orion a lot of times comes up with great ideas for buses (Orion II, first low floor mini, Orion VI, if it was the way it was suppose to be, a full low floor bus at one level).
Yeah.....I like that Orion IV. Looks a LOT like an RTS. Wonder how many were made?
The Orion IV is kind of cool looking and a neat concept. I think, though I'm not sure, that it was designed specifically for Niagara Falls tourist transit operations and was not really marketed to real transit authorities.
I'm not sure exactly how many were made and I've never seen them in person to make this judgement based on observation, but I would estimate that there are 30 or fewer of them.
I like them; definitely a modern-looking bus. It looks a lot better than any other Orion I have ever seen.
-F.
That Orion IV is hideous! Orion can't seem ot do anything right. They make ugly reliable buses, and good looking crappy ones. Then, when they try to go for the outlandish styling they flop like I've never seen.
thats why you shoud forget about orions!
Personally, I liked it. It looked a lot like a slopeback RTS.
-F.
No no no...I've got a better one. The New Flyer Invero; it has retro New Look styling cues. Take a look at the rounded roof, the wheel wells, the round headlights....just give it slanted side windows and you've really got something.
-F.
the NEW flyer invero looks like a fishbowl that is low floor
Very true. I've only seen pics but would LOVE to try out the Invero. It is one of the most innovative new transits I've seen since the ADBs!
-F.
Well it ALMOST looks like a fishbowl
Yeah....almost. Good looking bus though; looks a lot better than the D40LF!
-F.
There are more buses out there running around with the 10-7 Syndrome. What is the 10-7 Syndrome? The 10-7 Syndrome is the official Transfer Point name for when charecters 10 pixels high are attempted to be displayed on signs that are only 7 pixels high.
There are two examples of this now on my newest page, Transit Pictures 20.0. Their call numbers are 20.0-06 with #7037 on the Q88 route, and 20.0-16, with #545 on the Q44 route. Check it out.
There are more buses out there running around with the 10-7 Syndrome. What is the 10-7 Syndrome? The 10-7 Syndrome is the official Transfer Point name for when charecters 10 pixels high are attempted to be displayed on signs that are only 7 pixels high.
There are two examples of this now on my newest page, Transit Pictures 20.0. Their call numbers are 20.0-06 with #7037 on the Q88 route, and 20.0-16, with #545 on the Q44 route. Check it out.
I have a question which I think I know the answer to, but I am going to get some expert opinions. THe RTS style local buses are slower than the RTS style express buses. They accelrate slower and seem to reach their top speed slower. Is this because the Local Buses have retarders(goveners) to slow them down. Even the Nassau county buses are faster than the city buses. Can any give me a good explanation.
Frank D.
I'm no expert, nor do I have any connections at DOB to answer your question, but my understanding is that NYCTA buses are governed. Also it's quite possible that the gear ratios are such that the acceleration would be slower.
Wayne
all nyct buses have governors and its not george pataki. mci buses are governed at a speed of 58 mph which makes one feel like a silly ass on the nj turnpike with little old ladies flying by on both sides in their yugos.
That top end is pretty ridiculous (but we're talking about NYCT).
Wayne
The 1700 series RTS is the slowest bus because it's the oldest bus. Even maintained, these buses are 20 years old, hence wear on the engine results in slower accelleration. Of course, the 9200 series RTS express bus is faster because it's relatively new. Nothing compares to the pickup of an Orion, however.
I've deadheaded on the LIE with one of the newer 9300 (forget the number) which was goverened at ***42*** MPH! Can you imagine? LOL!
I've heard that all NYCT buses will be goverened to 40MPH.
{sigh}
>>>I've heard that all NYCT buses will be goverened to 40MPH.<<<
Thank god that I don't have to take an express bus from Staten Island. Talk about a good reason to get a car.
Even the new Orions are governed? I was on the S79 today with a 1999 Orion and it was so slow. I'm glad I don't live on Staten Island. It's either a slow bus or a slow ferry.
That's one good thing about LI Bus, they don't govern their buses. Another reason to keep the DOT privates, since I believe they aren't governed either.
This whole speed limit thing on buses is ridiculous. The MTA is so obsessed with safety that it's system of buses (and subways) is grinding to a halt.
All buses or governed, unless the governor is malfunctioning. An ungoverned bus can be dangerous because some buses have a hard time handling at speeds of 80 and above.
80 the engine could catch fire.
80 the engine could catch fire.depending on the transmission
and engine,etc.
what you really mean is some bus drivers cant control the bus at 80 mph. mci buses operated by other companies routinely exceed 70 mph on the new jersey turnpike and i havent heard of any having accidents. nyct mci buses 1883,1951 and 1972 are a few that will exceed 70mph.
i seen bus do about 75 on the road.transit bus drivers are
train to pick up people at ever stop.not to handle buses at it realy
top speed near 80mph.so they govern to prevent a crash .
peace out
kmo
I know that bus number that's government regulated: 9381! I've rode that bus on the Q46 between Franny Lou and Springfield-only went as fast as 42 mph. Also I know it's regulated because it has a new paintjob on her. 9355 is the other. I haven't rode on 9355 since her repaint but I know she's regulated too. I rode 9381 on Q88 1 time before her repaint and she was fast. I have a question though: Why 40 mph? I know that's minimum speed for Expressway Driving but going 40 mph will cause the flow of traffic to be really messed up. They should be regulated at 50 or 55 mph just to keep with the flow of traffic. Is there a petition that we as passengers can post to government to regulate the bus's speed to 50-55 mph? Going 40 mph on an Expressway is ridiculous not only for driver but fpr the passenger as well.
Q46#9374Gary
I think it's stupid for NYCMTA to "govern" the speed of busses. Especially Suburbans/OTR Coaches.
What does Express mean? - Fast. Now we all know that sometimes with the traffic, the busses do not run "EXPRESS", but to lower the speed that a bus can achieve is stupid on these busses.
Take the X1, which is more than 27 miles from start to finish. You want to slow down the speed, then why not lower the fare and call the route SX1 (SlowExpress). Speed as well as comfort and increased passenger capabilities is why NYC purchased MCIs.
It is also bad for busses that run over bridges, etc., like the S53/79, that run to Brooklyn. They are so slow when it comes to the acceleration on the Verrazanno.
They always seem to put themselves in some sort of mess!!!!
get used to it i know that septa allow govern speeds.
exact on these neoplan bus that why i like them so much.i know that 55
mph is to slow for a govern speed.
thank you
pease
k.o.
Interestingly enough, I saw 15 year old RTS 4448 on the Whitestone Bridge Friday night. Of course it struggled going up hill but once it reached the downhill portion of the bridge it wound up passing me, and I was driving at the posted 40 MPH bridge speed limit. I would estimate that it was doing 45-50 MPH.
Mark
IIRC there was a zone charge on the Q-60. The fare was .15 from the city to 63rd Dr and Qns Blvd. If you were staying on past this stop you put .25 in the box and got a slip similar to a transfer. If you got on between Grand Ave and 63rd Drive you only put .15 in the box and got the same slip. The bus would stop at 63rd Drive. All exiting was from the rear door, the front door stayed closed. The driver would put the bus in park, pull up the handbrake, get up from his seat and collect all the slips before opening up the door to board new passengers who paid .15 for the rest of the route to Jamaica.
The proceduce was repeated W/B.
Anybody else remember this? When was it elimiated? Did any other route in NYC have this zone system ?
I have a very vague recollection of that zone system on the Q60. I believe the Q44 had a similar system once you rode the bus over the Whitestone Bridge. I don't recollect when they were eliminated, but I'm sure it was in connection with one of the fare increases.
I thought the QBX1 had the surchage (of .10 if i recall)and not the Q44
If this zone was up today. It would be $1.65 on Q60.
I wounder if the passengers that pay with Metrocard today. Will the Metrocard will take out 15 Cents more of the passengers will have to put 15 Cents in change?
Have no idea as far as NYC buses go, but that is still common practice on the Los Angeles MTA buses.
Today.
I saw a Brand New MCI D4000 #8428 on Queens Blvd. The headsign say this "24/48 New York". I think it finsh that Route and that bus went to do a Charter some place in Queens. This is the first time I ever saw a D4000 in Queens.
24 MCI D4000#8428
decamp has several 2001 mci cruisers in the series 8401-8425.
Decamp also got some more then that. I say that it's #8401-#8431. I saw photos of them on Transitalk. I hope Trever could tell me if I Right or You right.
Decamp, Its 8401-8435!
Trans Bridge is 8556-8559
Academy is 8560-8603 (So Far)
Red & Tan is 8454-8523
Carefree is 8451-8453
Plenty more to come for the privates because the privates are Buses #8401-8915
The NJT Units are #7501-8112!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
DeCamp still has 16 MC-9B coaches left on it's roster as of Wednesday. That tends to tell me they may get a few more in addition to 8401-8435.
The three Carefree units are set to replace 1 MC-9 (6848) and 4 MC-9B units. I know I asked this in a previous post, but I don't recall if I got an answer to it. Where is Carefree based and what service would they offer that requires these buses?
Carefree operates two lines, 22 From Jounral Square to Bloomfield and the 55 from NY to Bloomfield.
Carefree does not have any MCI MC-9B Cruisers, They have the 1 MCI MC-9 Coach and 3 MCI MC-9A Cruisers. New D4000 Cruisers #8451-8453 are only replacing the MC-9A Cruisers. The Regular MC-9 will remain as that is now Carefree's Bus and not under contract by New Jersey Transit.
Yes, Decamp has 16 MC-9Bs left on the roster and that is because they have no recieved all of thier D4000 Crusiers yet, as of yesterday there was a decent amount of DeCamp D4000 Cruisers sitting at the Acceptance Lot. DeCamp is only getting #8401-8435.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Ah, 6848!
That thing has been rebuilt into some hideous-looking hybrid between a 102D3 and an MC-9. The front and rear surfaces are 102D3, and the middle has been left as MC-9.
They also have 6728, 6757, and 6758. Their interiors have been redone with re-upholstered seats and retrofitted with a toilet and video system.
Yeah, see NJT was nice and 8451 has a lavatory while 8452 and 8453 are just plain cruisers. So NJT did try to accomdate them on the bathroom.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com (Image Update 4/22)
Interesting that you bring that up about Carefree...
I just recieved the current Private Carrier assignment listings dated April 18. NJT still lists 6848 on the listings of assignments for Carefree. Also listed are 6728 and 6755-6757.
FWIW, they also have Academy listed as having 6832, 6834, and 6835 on their PCA bus listing.
Another thing caught my attention. NJT has listed on that PCA listing MC-9 #6823 as being assigned to Nate's Transportation. What's the story with Nate's?
All that is all well and true, however, when you see those buses now, they no longer carry:
Owned by: NJ Transit
Operated by: ***********
All of them say Owned and Operated by whomever has them except for the Academy 6800s. The Nate unit is also on the NJT Roster however that bus will become a permenant bus on the Nate Roster in about 2 months. The Carefree 68xx is now Carefree's bus, that bus has the nasty looking D3 rebuild. NJT does not allow any exterior body alterations to leased buses other than the paint scheme.
As for Carefree, from the D4000 Cruiser order ONLY 8451-8453 is assigned. No Other Cruisers!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Trevor, that leaves out something...
7501-8112 = 612 units
8401-8915 = 515 units
That totals 1127 MCIs, not the 1244 originally ordered, or the 1400 that MCI claims has been confirmed. It appears as if the 96-inch D4000s and the D4500s destined for NJT may be missing from that list - that would bring the NJT roster up to 8385, which makes a little more sense.
It looks as though NJT is going to put the D4000/96 and D4500 cruisers in their own numbering categories. Perhaps the D4000/96 cruisers will be numbered in the 83xx series, while the D4500 cruisers will have their own sequence.
This is a strange numbering scheme.
Why did they start at 7501, rather than 7101? And why didn't they just number consecutively, instead of mixing it around?
Like the 99-00 Novas, their numbering makes much more sense.
The reason why is because the numbers for the D4000/96 and the D4500s are not in yet. That is because the D4000/96 will not be on the property until late late 2001 or early 2002. The D4500s will be the last of the order in late 2002/early 2003.
When the series numbers are released, I'll let you know. But as of right now only the D4000 102" numbers are available.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Got on #6356 Last Friday on M101 as on my way to 61 St. This was the first time I ever been on a Orion6. I like the AC on there. The AC was on that day in full force. It felt a little cold in there. What type of AC Unit is on that Orion6?
M101 Orion6 #6356
The HVAC Unit in the Orion 06.501 (VI) Hybrids are the Thermo King Citi RT Roof Mount Unit. Originally this unit would've been placed on top of the bus with covering similar to the New Flyer D60HF "Galaxy" Articulateds. However due to the Orion 06.501's design, all of the components were pulled from the original casing and placed inside the Orion Low Floor's roof lining.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
On my trip to Washington D.C. I spotted a strange orion bus im not shure if it is a orion or orion V
This bus (WMATA #2077) is an Orion VI (Low floor bus) which was delivered last year.
Wayne
You Mean There is a orion VI?
Yeah, there has been for quite a while. It was advertised as a "full low floor" bus, but it actually has a step by the back door, as you may have noticed. The ones on the WMATA bus fleet are new, but I think Ride-On has (or had) two from 1995 (not that I ever saw any). TTC has a good amount of them too, with the rear door behind the rear wheel. New York also has a few.
For those of you who are operators, there are about 100 runs each day this weekend on the E F G A and #7 trains. I've put in for 3 of them (greedy bastich I am) LOL!
For those of you who are travelling via subway this weekend; my extended sympathies.
Shuttles I know about include:
E F G R N Court Square - Queens Plaza - Queensbridge
A C Rockaway
A JFK
#7 Queens Plaza
And I believe there is no 7 at Main street this weekend, shuttle buses will run between Willets Point and Main.
I wrote to you privately
Sxteve
There is a D train shuttle this weekend from Stillwell terminal to Brighton Beach.
speking of shuttle work today i seen shuttle buses
used on the market-frankford evel.at 69st termaal.
That's correct. For the next five weekends, SEPTA is running shuttle buses between 15 and 69 St stations, due to work related to the new ATC system on the Market Frankford El. (For those interested, the routing is obviously the same as the Market Frankford Owl buses. Should be fun, though, to see if they use any artics on that line. I doubt it though.)
i seen about 10 artics on that line today.
Did they use any Volvos or are they all Neoplans?
volvo's were retired and the new neoplan take there place
the answer to your question is no,the nabi,and the neoplan hold the service for today
Yeah, I only saw Neoplans 40fters and artics today. Hey, did you see the traffic on Market ST this morning? What was going on, I saw these runners? Was it a marathon of some sort?
It was an event related to the Penn Relays. I guess it was actually a distance relay along the streets of University City. I did see Philadelphia traffic cops along Market St near Drexel University.
Do you mean the Nightowl. If you do, they don't really use artics, but for the shuttle, they ONLY use artics. I'm wondering if they are using the Neoplans or maybe some extra Volvos (or maybe both?)
The only night owl service that sees the artics is the Broad Street Owl, using the artics from Midvale. For the shuttle today, however, I did spot a couple of artics from Allegheny.
Why would they use artics on the BSL and not on the MFL. I always thought that the MFL was the most popular line, and it sorta is.
like i say i seen about 10 neoplan artics on the mfl.
Because the MFL Night Owl operates out of Callowhill and Frankford, with at least 1 run operating from Comly (usually with a NABI). The BSL Night Owl operates out of Midvale and Southern.
There is aalso the D train shuttle from Brighton Beach to Stillwell
That's right. Saw the "T" RTS bus while leaving the Ditmas Av station on the F line. It had all the decals, ads, electronic signs and everything.
Damn, now that's a long route for that driver!
BUT THATS IMPOSSIBLE! HOW COULD THE MTA BOUGHT A MBTA RTS?
I FELT THAT THE MTA IS THE LARGEST TRANSIT IN THE USA
,WHY DO THEY NEED OTHER TRANSIT RTS?????????????????
MTA is stort of buses thanks to Pushing the New Flyers to Next Year and Orion7 is not comming at all. I think MTA is useing that until futher notice. I hope to see it in Queens.
What are the colors of this bus?
If it is a MBTA bus, it will be white with a large yellow stripe around the middle of the bus. There will be a black T inside a circle on the sides near the front door and drivers window. You may be able to see some pics at www.mbta.com or at the website for the Seashore Trolley Museum (they have a fishbowl in the same colors) or check out one of the field trips in that section of this site. IIRC there's a pic of Thurston and Todd Glickman in front of that fishbowl.
I think is a chuch bus, or one of the Juwish buses. I have seen it parked on Nuptune Ave near W12th street. I now see there two old NYCTA RTS's parked there with painted yellow strips.
Robert
Although the bus might be painted like an MBTA bus (yellow stipes) it probably is not, as the MBTA has only sold one of their 980 RTS buses so far, and that was a wrecked one sold for scrap. The MBTA does not have enough buses to be leasing or selling off any at this point. 45 of the 1985-built MBTA buses are supposed to be set aside as a contingency fleet to be used during emergencies, but most of these are now being run everyday in normal service.
Im thinking its the Crown Heights Community bus, which resembles the same colors. This bus is also a former NYCT RTS. I saw this bus driving down Ocean Ave on Thursday.
There's a difference between the MBTA and MTA-NYC buses. MBTA has the color scheme described before, and have green lights on either side of the front sign, and similar green lights in the back. They also have doors like those of the Green Lines 1000-series (1979 RTS) buses, while MTA-NYC buses have the recessed door panels on their RTS buses, and amber lights on either side of the front sign.
What are the purpose of these lights, anyway?
I was in Boston on Saturday. All I saw were 0000 and 0100 series buses. I only saw a couple of green line trains at the Park Street station. The only subway-related picture was of an entrance to that station. And another thing, why is there this silly practice of starting all the bus (and subway car) numbers with zero? Why not just remove the leading zeroes?
The lights are "police lights" designed to alert police in case the operator needs police assistance. On SEPTA buses, there is an orange light on the roof over the driver's side. LI Bus has a white strobe, which I think has the same purpose.
Many bus operators use the first two digits as the model year of a bus. Therefore bus 9742 would be the 42nd bus of the 1997 model year. Could be that 00 series signifies the 2000 model year while the 0100 series signifies the 2001 model year.
MBTA's 0001 series RTS's were originally supposed be the 5000-series, don't know why they changed it, but it doesn't have anything to do with the year, as those were manufactured in '94-'95
True that many smaller and midsized transit systems use year numbering, but this is not necessarily the case at MBTA.
Their older RTSs use "kind-of" year numbering, although even that is deceptive because the 8000-series buses were made in 1989 and there are a few other inconsistancies. Also, must systems using year numbering start the series at xx01 whereas all MBTA series start at xx00 (as they should) with the only exception being this:
buses 0001-0400 are 1994 and 1995 TMC and NovaBUS RTSs. The first one was delivered wearing the fleet number 5300, but it was renumbered before being put into regular service to 0001, and all of the remaining production buses followed. I presume that 5300 was originally chosen because one of the last batches of New Looks ended at 5299, but then New Look numbers picked up again at 5700.
The newest buses in the MBTA fleet are 5000-5001 and 6000-6001.
I cannot explain that seemingly meaningless zero in front of some rail car numbers. With the buses, at least it makes some sense if you understand the entire numbering system.
It has been a tradition in Boston since 1901 to put a "0" at the beginning of all rapid transit car numbers.
The leading zero in a car number (or bus number) in Boston is to differenciate between streetcars/trolley coaches and elevated/subway equipment/buses. The practice began under the Boston Elevated in 1903 with the opening of the Main Line elevated and continues to this day.
The 0 in front of rapid transit equipment did start in 1901 in Boston, but the 0 in front of Boston bus numbers only happened in the 1994/95 order, and only because the general manager at the time wanted it that way.
There is a method to the (T)'s numbering madness, and I want to just clarify how the RTSs were numbered.
The first delivery of RTSs were 8400-8599, in which the 8400s were delivered in late 1985 and the 8500s were delivered in early 1986. They replaced a good chunk of the Flxible New Looks and Metropolitans. A second order in late 1986 were the 8600-8689 and 8700-8789, replacing whatever Flxibles and Mets were left.
In fall of 1989, the (T) received 8800-8969, with 8800-8899 delivered with regular hard seats and 8900-8969 configured as "suburban" service buses with soft seats. 8900-8969 would phase out the 7100 series buses.
Now for the hard part: It is absolutely true that they delivered the first NovaBus as 5300, which would follow the last fishbowl of 5299. In order to distinguish between the 3 fleets of fishbowls, they got 3 sets of numbers: 5200s for the 40 foot regulars, 6400s for the 40 foot suburbans, and 5700s for the 35 foot regulars. Ironically, the Novabus fleet 0001-0400 would replace the entire fleet of 154 Fishbowl buses (and the 1982 Flyers) in two years. Why the (T) numbered it 5300, I have no clue; they soon renumbered 5300 to 0001 and all the new buses delivered had the 0xxx numbering convention. I have no clue what they will number the NABI and Neoplan fleet when they come aboard in 2002-2003; they'll have to be careful if they choose to use 0600-0699.
As for the "0" in front of the subway cars: 0 identifies the car as a "rapid transit" car. It started with the MTA's convention of numbering the subway cars to differentiating them with the 5000 and 6000 series trolley cars - the Revere Line had its 0500s, the Orange Line had its 01100s, and the Red Line's Bluebirds were the 01400s. When a new fleet came in, they continued the process of adding to the previous fleet number; i.e. The 01500-01600 Silver(later Red)birds, the 0600 Bluebelles, and the 01200 Orange Crush cars. The PCCs, LRVs and Type 7 and Type 8 cars are/were in the 3000 series; trackless trolleys used to be numbered as 8000-8517, but they were retired in 1977; 4000-4049 are the newer numbers. (4000 was delivered as 9000, but was renumbered because of a potential conflict with the delivery of the 9000-9029 Metropolitans.)
Brian
The MBTA 0-series were delivered in 1994 and 1995. They were supposed to be numbered 5300-5699 but the general manager at the time decided he wanted them numbered in a series that would stand out so people would know the buses were new, thus they became 0001-0400. 0001 was actually delivered as 5300 but renumbered before entering service, the other buses came from Roswell with the new numbers.
The green lights are the famous "hazards" used on all MBTA buses to alert the MBTA police that the bus driver is in danger. On the MBTA RTSs, the blinking lights are accompanied by the destination sign:
EMERGENCY - CALL T POLICE - 222-1212.
In NYC, the only place you'd find the phone number for the police is on the rear sign, which would read:
CALL
COPS
911
The other signs would say:
EMERGENCY
CALL POLICE
Some signs would use the small letters. I wonder why.
Now I Know what the green lights are for!
I got my copy a few days ago. I noticed all the pictures were taken with some cheapo digital camera. The images are all distorted and the quality is horrible. Anyone else agree?
Us as a group need to make our own Making Score! With all the talent and opinions I've seen from this bunch combined, WHOA could we do some good stuff!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
that is definitely a good idea but would cost some money.
Why do you get that type of newsletter from.
nyct 25 jamaica ave bklyn n.y. or call 1-888 NYCT BUS.
The MBTA has Orion buses there electric. Anybody know whitch type?
I ALWAY FELT THAT THE MBTA WAS JUST A RTS BUS FLEET,I FIND OUT MAYBE!!!
MBTA has two Orion VI hybrids. They are considered unreliable junk and no more will be ordered.
I remember seeing one of these.
I hope they go back to RTS. We need another RTS stronghold in the east.
Orions are taking over RTSs..............is Ian's dream becoming a reality?
Yeah, Orions that fall apart during testing.
Well, well, well, that's why the Orion VII is bad. The Orion VI and New Flyer were too old (or is it young) to have a baby bus! And then this happens....Oh well, it's not like Ian was a good bus anyway.
Orions are not taking over for RTS buses at the MBTA. They only have two, and based on how they have performed, they will not buy anymore Orions.
Well they only have 2 orions
The MBTA at this point is buying only low-floor CNG buses.
They have 15 more C40LFs coming from New Flyer (they have 2 now), 124 low-floor CNGs coming from NABI with an option for 124 more, and the 44 CNG artics from Neoplan (plus the Neoplan dual-modes and trackless). I doubt they will buy more RTS buses except perhaps the talked about but still unseen low-floor RTS.
The decision not to buy more RTS buses was not made by MBTA maintenance staff, they wanted more but the higher ups decided low-floor and CNG was the way to go.
I don't know if Detroit counts as "east" by our standards, but I guess Detroit DOT is as close to an "eastern" RTS stronghold that I can think of.
A lot of the smaller systems in Pennsylvania which could be called "strong" RTS areas - Lancaster, Harrisburg, Williamsport, and Erie are the ones that come to mind - are going with other companies. Williamsport and Erie are starting to go with New Flyer low floors. I had heard that Harrisburg is about to replace it's older fishbowls and GM RTS buses with ElDorados - I doubt this is true given the ridership on some lines, but I haven't been to Harrisburg in nearly two years. Lancaster is about to order low floor diesel electric hybrids, probably from New Flyer, but they will replace 1990 Flxible 35096-6T coaches from 1990 - kinda sad, since the Lancaster Flxibles are pretty good buses, given Lancaster County's hilly enviroment.
I could make an arguement that Fairfax Connector in Virginia is also a fairly strong RTS area (by DC standards), but Orions dominate there, just as they are slowly starting to do in DC.
I always thought of Harrisburg as a Gillig town, although there had been significant numbers or RTSs and New Looks.
Try unreliable, slow, hardly used, and just plain laughable.
IMHO, the two NFIs run much better.
NFIs are 10x the bus Orions are. The D40LFs anyway. NABIs are a crap shot in my opinion. They can suck, or they can be decent.
I never had a bad Orion experience before, I guess.
How About The MBTA buys more orion VI's Powerd by fuel cells there a alternative to fuel and there safe for the enviorment.
Bus Accident in Crown Heights. Bus involved: 4998. Collided with a van. At least 3 dead (in the van).
14 pts,,,including 4 DOA, and 1 Serious
I was there from OEM
Steve
FDNY
CBS 880 said 5 dead. Everyone in the van (from the same family) got thrown forward after a reckless drive down a street. Sounds like no seatbelts.
I was there ,,,people,,it was 4 dead,,total of 14 injs
Steve
N Y C Fire Dept
Yep, the van ran into the back of a B45 bus at Bklyn Ave and St. Johns Place. Passengers on the bus(1999 Nova) was hurt as well.
[Passengers on the bus were hurt as well.]
How many of the injuries were genuine (incurred by real bus riders), and how many were faked by people "jumping" on the bus AFTER the collision?
an accident with impact enough to cause 4 DOAs ==it dont think anyone would be faking it!!!
[an accident with impact enough to cause 4 DOAs ==it (sic) dont (sic) think anyone would be faking it!!!]
Please reread my post as many times as it takes. Obviously some REAL bus passengers sustained REAL injuries. However, I specifically - yet rhetorically - asked if any of the "injured" were in fact JUMPERS (that is, people who jumped on the bus AFTER the accident and thus were NOT real passengers and did not feel ANY impact AT ALL).
Any accident involving any public agency (transit or otherwise) in any urban setting will have legitimate injuries AS WELL AS jumpers, almost by definition. The key is to separate one from the other.
Baltimore solved the "jumper" problem several years ago. How?
Very simple. After any accident, the driver must keep all doors closed until either an MTA Supervisor/Police or a City/County Police is present. Only then can the doors be opened.
[(Baltimore solution)....After any accident, the driver must keep all doors closed until either an MTA Supervisor/Police or a City/County Police (officer) is present.]
I like the sound of that. It reminds me of a joint sting operation conducted by New Jersey Transit and ABC News (20/20, I think), in which a bus accident was staged to catch jumpers. Of course, The real "passengers" were NJT employees plus the reporter. there were hidden cameras everywhere: on the bus, on the reporter, even on several neighboring rooftops.
As soon as the bus "hit" the set-up car, dozens of people appeared from nowhere to "jump" on the bus and claim injury. Some already had business cards from unethical attorneys and physicians who were later caught on tape coaching the reporter on how to fake injuries (of course, they lost their licenses).
I wonder how much fares could be lowered (or service improved) if transit agences everywhere didn't have to spend so much money on fraudulent claims.
That solves the problem. It also holds a busload of innocent passengers hostage until a cop arrives. I have a problem with that.
Usually a City or MTA Cop arrives within minutes of the operator advising Radio of the accident. A street Supervisor is also dispatched. The system works, I've seen it in action.
Still, passengers shouldn't have to wait minutes to be freed from a bus that won't be going anywhere. The passengers who would be getting off there anyway should be allowed on their way -- and the passengers who need to continue should be allowed on the first subsequent bus to arrive.
Of course "the system works," but it penalizes the wrong people. On occasion, bus riders are not only trying to get somewhere but are trying to get somewhere by a certain time. Sometimes delays are inevitable, but the TA is failing in its mission if it delays any passenger unnecessarily.
(I have the same response to comments on SubTalk that it's really no big deal if a C/R doesn't bother to announce that a train is running express, or only announces it after the doors close -- after all, everybody can backtrack on a local in the other direction. And if the next stop on the unannounced express doesn't have a crossover -- like 72nd or 137th on the West Side -- then passengers should just stay on the train until the next station with a crossover and not bother the station agents. That's absolute nonsense; an unexpected express run to 137th cost me $40 plus my own time.)
Articles in Saturday's Daily News and Times.
2151 a 1962 green gmc has now relocated from castleton. in addition buses 3920 and 3944 have returned to the active fleet from carleton yard with a fresh coat of paint. 2270 only does school trips but 2660 has no restrictions. so come out to staten island where you can ride the buses.
I guess QV_BO could answer this. What QV routes get relieved on the road? I would say only the 36 and possibly the 88.
The only road relief point for QV is Springfield Blvd & Jamaica Avenue, for the Q36, sometimes Q88, and (very rarely) Q1 and Q83.
When I worked at QV back in 1995, we made reliefs on the Q30 also at Springfield Blvd and Horace Harding Expressway.
BIG AL
the Artic NABI bus for the WMATA looks like a Flxible
Yeah....the NABIs do kind of resemble Flxibles. Ironic that Baltimore MTA switched to these when Flx went under!
-F.
It's probably just me, but HOW do they resemble Flixibles? I see absolutely nothing in common.
I don't know about the NABIs resembling the Flxible 870/Metro, but I bet you'd be hard pressed to not notice a similarity in overall shape and profile between the RTS and the Mack Truck-built transit buses of the 1940s and 1950s.
Unfortunately, I don't presently have the capability of posting images to illustrate my point, but anyone familiar with the Mack buses (such as NYCT preserved #6259) and what they looked like is welcome to comment and agree or disagree.
I see what you mean a little. The rear is flat with a slightly rounded top. There is what seems to be a triangle shaped window in the rear, like on the GMCs and up to the 8396TMCRTS. The only thing is that there are no rear windows on the back of a RTS. The front is similar. The glass window is slanted in and if the route display sign was in lign with the slanting glass, then it would look like a RTS. Also, if the front was curved - sort of like this character > - with the lights below this vurve, then yes, it looks like an RTS.
I see what you mean a little. The rear is flat with a slightly rounded top. There is what seems to be a triangle shaped window in the rear, like on the GMCs and up to the 8396TMCRTS. The only thing is that there are no rear windows on the back of a RTS. The front is similar. The glass window is slanted in and if the route display sign was in lign with the slanting glass, then it would look like a RTS. Also, if the front was curved - sort of like this character > - with the lights below this vurve, then yes, it looks like an RTS. Also, there is what seems to be windows that open similar to RTSs.
Huh? RTS and Mack? I'd hve to see it to believe it. Wheelbase proportions I could see, but other than that, they look COMPLETELY different to me.
-F.
I noticed a resemblance a while ago. When you compare the rear half broadside view (rear to back door section), you notice the same large width rear doors and the short distance from the back door to the rear of the bus. The old GM and new looks had the short width back door and a longer distance from the rear to the back door.
Bill "Newkirk"
I can see that. Both have short rear overhangs and wide rear doors. I think the wider doors were a great idea.
-F.
I dunno, but let them have their own opinion.
Speaking of NABI, did NJ Transit award them the contract to build the 40ft and 60ft buses or are they still deciding? I hope they don't get New Flyers or Orions like NYCT. (Copycats, they'd be!) Certainly no Neoplans, PLEASE! Unless NYCT will buy them too. (Wanna-be LA Metro they'd be!)
Any answers, contact me:
cleanairbus@yahoo.com, or
carlwal@hotmail.com
Thanks,
CWalNYC
Well, I honestly don't know why Neoplans would be horrorific, but they wouldn't go well with teh NYCTA look. However, I think the NJT Neo artics wouldn't be so bad.
the front and back ALMOST looks like a Flxible but it is not
You're kidding, right?
Considering that the driver's side windshield on a Flxible is tilted inwards at a slight angle, while the NABIs have a straight driver's side windshield, I don't see how the two buses are similar.
The rear of the bus of a Flxible Metro and a NABI are not even close to similar. Especially the turn signals.
Here are pictures of the rears of a Flxible and a NABI:
Bee-Line 826 at Bruckner Blvd and Wilkinson Av, The Bronx
SEPTA NABI (Callowhill 5042) on Walnut St, Philadelphia (w/Full Wrap for Verizon)
Now, pictures of the front of a typical Flxible Metro and a typical NABI:
Delaware Transit Corp (DART First State) Flxible Metro B 234 at Christiana Mall, New Castle County (this is a big file, compared to most of my other pictures)
SEPTA NABI (Midvale 5176) arriving at Olney Terminal, Philadelphia
I know I'm going to get a lot of heat for saying this, but the front of a Flxible Metro - at least to me - is more similar to a Gillig Phantom than it is to a NABI.
I am not saying that the Gillig Phantom looks that similar to the Flxible, but I make that point because the front windshield is tilted, just like it is on the Flxible.
Yeah, when I was young, I used to think that Gilligs and Flxibles were exactly alike(well, maybe not exactly). I actually thought they were the same bus! Of course, that's before i actually was really observant of buses.
I have NO idea how you guys thought they were similar; the Flx is a LOT sleeker looking than the more boxy Gillig. Then again, I used to think that Flx New Looks and GM Fishbowls were the same bus when I was a kid. Same with the Grumman 870 and the RTS.
-F.
The paint schemes cokme heavily into play, especially Baltimore MTA versions. There's just something about how that front end comes together on a NABi that looks similar to a Flx. Overall, I think a Flx looks better though.
-F.
Not really. The NABIs look totally different to me.
I can see the similarity, I guess, especially when wearing identical paint schemes . . . they're both boxy, etc., but I think the window placement and headlamp designs differentiate them. Obviously, under the WMATA paint jobs, these elements are downplayed and homogenized, so I can see why one would think them similar.
C
I have always thought that the Flx looks sleeker, but yes, I can see where the similarities are in the paint scheme. However, I think the NABI looks more like a Gillig at the back end.
-F.
When you sit inside a WMATA Orion, it is reminiscent of a Flx due to the side slant of the windows, as opposed to a straight side all the way down (i.e. Gillig, New Flyer). Oh yes, and all the woodgrain. Very nice touch. :)
-F.
Well I took the 7 from Willets point today. I walked along Roosevelt avenue for what seemed like quite a distance. The walk from main street took about 15 minutes and that's with walking fast. I guess it just didn't seem like much of a distance from the train. Also not crazya bout walking through that area. A few packed (and I mean packed)shuttle buses (mostly RTS's from QV) passed.
The shuttle buses dropped and picked up in the Shea Stadium parking lots. From what I could see it looked like quite a mob scene over there.
Only a single track out of Willets point where trains came in.
Going back I simply avoided the mess by taking an F to Briarwood/Van Wyck and a Q20 to Flushing.
I actually stopped off in Forest Hills, I never realized the bustling town of trendy shops that lies between the 71/Cont and LIRR stations. They got alot more shopping than Flushing, but there isn't any mystical stores there.
In Flushing they were picking up people on 39th ave between Main and Prince. Buses couldn't seem to move fast enough, as soon as they filled up, one left and another got loaded.
Also the traffic on Main was a nightmere, I saw several packed shuttle buses waiting to discharge pax.
And to think two more weekends of this. Well I think the best way around it is Q20A/B to Briarwood/Van Wick to catch an F. I'd rather try to avoid being squashed in one of those shuttle buses. Wow, they sure looked crowded. Forget about any breathing room!
"They got alot more shopping than Flushing, but there isn't any mystical stores there."
MYSTICAL stores ! No mention of Mystical girls, guess they packed the shuttle bus. Maybe you need a vaction from the Big Apple, how about MYSTIC Seaport, Connecticut !!
This is waaay before your time. Back in the 60's, you know the 20th century, this is how you would repair a cut in a seat cushion. You would go to a hardware store and buy this cloth bound adhesive tape that came in different colors. It was called MYSTIC tape, don't know if they still make it anymore.
Like music ? Had you been a teenager back in 1959, you probably bought a "45" of new vocal group from Brooklyn. The song was "Hushabye" by the MYSTICS. Fast foreward to 1970, Johnny Rivers released "Into the MYSTIC", also recorded by Van Morrison.
Well, that's enough Mysticism on MYSTIC of I'm not mistaken !!!
Bill "Newkirk"
Gawd I'm hungry ! Going out for some MYSTIC pizza !!!
I checked out the MTA webpage for Metrocard and it seems there is a new promotional Metrocard out now. It is an advertisement for the Felix Trinidad vs. William Joppy boxing match to be held at MSG on May 12, 2001.
There is a sweepstakes going on involving winning Metrocard serial numbers for a first prize of a ringside seat at the match. It was announced that this Metrocard is available at Metrocard Vending Machines, but they're not telling where.
If anybody has bought this card from an MVM, I would appreciate reporting it so us collectors can buy one. The window of opportunity for sale of this card if April 11th to April 30th 2001,
so days are running short.
Bill "Newkirk"
I was in Maspeth yesterday afternoon and saw 5068 on the Q58 with the new license plates. I noticed that this is the 1st NovaBus that I have seen with the new plates. Has anybody seen any other Novas with the new plates?
Q58#5068Gary
I think when any registration is up in New York now, the vehicle will automatically get the new ugly plates that look like every other state's (see Pennsylvania).
We lose our identity a little bit more everyday.
5068 is probably one of the first NYCT buses to get the new plates. I haven't seen any yet with them. Personally, I like the new plates. I think they look alot better than the Liberty plates, even though the new ones do look alot like some of the other states plates. New York has always had some of the worst and definitely one of the most boring looking plates in the country. You guys should remember the horrible orange plates we had with the blue letters & numbers right before the Liberty plates came out. I had a red car back at that time (1982-1987) and those plates looked absolutely terrible on it. I remember Oregon had the same color plates at that time also. They had to have been the worst in the country. I couldn't wait for NY to get rid of those plates and finally, starting on 7/5/86, we did.
BIG AL
5068 I do not think is the first. The 2001 MCIs (some of them) have the new plates.
All the new 2100's that are at Ulmer Park have them. I guest all the New Flyer out of Jackie Gleason will get them last. I don't know how the TA is going to work getting New License Plates. The registration on NYCTA dose not exprire like other bus compuneys do.
Robert
It will probably the an en masse replacement of tags the same way SEPTA replaced the solid blue tags with the blue, gold and white tags. I don't remember the exact order in which the depots got the new tags, but it took a couple of months. I think SEPTA was the last TA in Pennsylvania to get the new tags, since the MT-3xxxx sequence run in the 34000s to 36000s.
Way back when express busses were first created, they used a borough prefix and X suffix. In 1975 it was changed to the current system.
The first X-bus was the R8X (SI was R until 1975) from Downtown Brooklyn to Port Richmond Square.
Staten Island eventually had a pattern of even busses south shore and odd busses north shore. This died with the introduction of the X20.
Several years ago, the X9/11/13 became the X1-X8 (original X8 having been eliminated, 1-7 routes were local routes and thus were not assigned pre-1975), with each branch getting its own number. The new X9 was created later. The X11 was eventually recreated as a renumbered branch of the X10, and the X13 came from the X14.
The X63/64/68 in Queens were the X20/14/18, which conflicted with SI routes.
The X90 and X92 were split up from the X23
NOW. First, correct me if I'm wrong.
Second: What's up with all this?
It seems that they made new routes in a 3x/6x/9x pattern with 6x going to Queens and 9x going to Manhattan. But why did they go with X32 for the Queens-Bronx route, and why did they jump from X20 to X31 on SI. And what's up with the X25 and the Brooklyn routes (27-29)? I know that the X25 is run from Ulmer Park. Are 21-24 reserved for SI? What about X26 or the remainder of the X30s?
Now this question is really part of my pickiness about why things are numbered the way they are (there's ALWAYS a reason), so why did the X20 Queens become the X63 when it could have become the X60, since the other two routes were renumbered keeping the digit in the ones place the same.
Are there any numbers programmed into bus signs for "planned" routes?
I thought the x25 was split between UP & MJQ.
Route X25 is operated entirely out of Ulmer Park Depot, using buses coming from/going to routes X27 and X29. The only involvement Michael J. Quill Depot has, is that some of the buses are parked there (on the roof) in the midday.
David
I want to create a NYCTA "R" subway route for BVE Train Simulator but I need photos and descriptions of the subway stations along the route. This web site doesn't have enough photos and/or descriptions of subway stations. I need to know the style and colors of tiles, the colors of columns, and location of stairs. For example, The 86th Street station has gray columns, original tile, and stairs in middle of station facing both ways. Some stations have tile bands like those at 86th Street station. I'm not sure if the bands are yellow, gold, or brown. Thanks for helping me. Jeffrey.
This question belongs on Subtalk. And yes, there is a section on stations on this site.
86th Street has NO tiles!
When and why did the M4 stop using Riverside?
When did the M5 stop going up Riverside to 157th?
[When and why did M4 stop using Riverside?]
In the late 1980s, due to reconstruction of the Riverside Drive Viaduct between 125th and 134th Streets. Buses were rerouted via Broadway between 135th and either 110th (M4) or 120th (M5). Large numbers of Broadway riders got hooked on the M4, so the detour was made permanent. (Efforts to keep the M5 on Broadway failed.)
Was this also the time they stopped running some M5s up Riverside to 157th?
I don't think so.
Unfortunately I don't have the map anymore and my memory is vague, but the bus map I had for a long time reflected these changes (designated clearly as temporary changes due to rehabilitation of the viaduct). I'd guess it was dated in the early 80's -- maybe 1983 or so. The alternate M5 route on Riverside between 135th and 157th was still listed, IIRC. It was probably eliminated a few years later.
Remember them in the 1980's ? I think some or all belonged to Queens/Steinway Transit. Some got their paint scheme around the front so you could recognize them coming. Do any survive in private hands anywhere ?
Green Line and Command had them as well. Don't know exactly what became of them but they've been long gone from the NYC metro area.
Jeez i remember those.
I always wondered where they came from.
I just realized I was responding to archived posts I was reading.
Archived posts from DECEMBER. I shouldn't do that. Please ignore me.
Took the #167 from Teaneck NJ to NYC today for the NY Auto Show. Going down, I rode 7593, a 2001 MCI D4000, coming back was 6313, a 1983 MCI MC-9.
Eliminating the disparities involved with age, the D4000 is a much better coach overall. The seats are a much better design, with firmer cushioning and what feels like extra bolsters in the lower back (lumbar) area. The lower side windows are more evident in a back-to-back run. For those who are unaware, the A-B-C-D windows are two incher higher AND three incles LOWER than the MC-9's windows, and now my head is just about in the center of the window.
The powertrain is light years ahead on the D4000. The six speed Allison B500 automatic keeps the Detroit Series 60 engine rpm nice and low at highway speed, while the 6V92TA/HT740 combination of the MC-9 was working *hard* on the NJ Turnpike.
I can safely say I got my (tax) money's worth with the new MCIs.
I know the older automatic MCI's when downshifting would really jerk you awake if you were sleeping.
Today apparently marks the first casualty in the D4000 era. DeCamp 8423 was hit in the rear curb side corner by an Express Service dollar van less than 1/4 mile from the Lincoln Tunnel tolls. The accident occured at around 2:30pm today. Express Service #05 (actually, a Carpenter body on a Navistar chasis - really looked like an old school bus) was attempting to turn onto NJ 495 in heavy volume. Apparently the driver wasn't paying attention as he bumped into 8423, which was heading to the PABT as a 66 from Montclair. It didn't appear that the damage was major, however it really stalled Midtown-bound traffic.
I was on NJT MC-9B #5073 (Meadowlands) and saw the accident. 5073, returning to NYC as a 319 from Atlantic City, was already running late due to heavy congestion on the entire length of 495. The accident involving 8423 didn't help matters much. We didn't get into the PABT until 3:00pm - 45 minutes late. BTW, I'm not blaming the driver, since there's nothing she could have done about the delays.
An interesting side note: There was another Express Service bus (I didn't get the number, but I couldn't care less about the dollar vans myself) right behind #05. The driver unloaded his passengers off #05 and onto the second bus (I guess he was afraid they might tell the police the accident was his fault), while by contrast, the passengers on the DeCamp bus were kept on board.
I really dislike those Express Service vans and dollar vans in general. They often skimp on maintenance, infringe laws and regulations, and drive like maniacs. How many times have I come this close to getting sideswiped by one in the Garden State Plaza parking lot, or on Main Avenue in Paterson! They also cut regular buses off, and try to pass them in attempts, often vain, to gain passengers that would've otherwise taken the regular bus.
Once, while waiting for the X1 in Lower Manhattan with my mother, a van (had no markings at all, other than "Clubwagon"), swerved across two lanes and screeched to a stop at the curb. They driver yelled out the window, "Brooklyn and Staten Island, only 1 dollar!"
Yeah right. Not for me, buddy.
There were people waiting for the express bus who were actually stupid enough to get in the van.
Creighton, you may have seen me (so to speak) on NJT 7593 at the same time. I saw the accident too, just as we came through the tolls. That DeCamp driver looked PISSED.
That's possible. I wasn't really paying attention to the other buses, I was just frustrated that my trip was late.
And yes, I noticed that about the DeCamp driver. I can't blame him, though.
BTW, the driver of the dollar van was taking pictures of the accident. I don't think he'll be driving vans or buses anytime soon.
The Express Service buses the ones that go through Paterson,Passaic come in handy when the 190 runs every 30 min and has to go through every town in Passaic County.
When they first started 6 or 7 years ago they were very used mini school buses. Now they have a whole fleet of mini buses and carry lots of passengers a day.
One of the riders said they cut in front of his car to pick up someone. This just like nyc transit buses sticking out in the street.
The Express Bus Service got permission to pick up on 42st. They did have DOT letters in all of the buses.
I think there are a few things they have to do better but the buses are safe. NJ Transit buses get into fender benders also.
THERE WEBSITE :WWW.EXPRESSBUSSERVICE.COM
Maybe the MTA decided that if the Orion VII buses were not coming, then it makes almost NO sense to go about the split-route-depot thing. The M101 was still a Manhattanville line; the M96 still had Quill buses; and the Bx39 still has Gun Hill artics running along White Plains Road.
They could have still done the KB-GH thing with the artic lines and the CAS-YUK thing with the Orion V local bus lines down there. But the whole system staying the way it was? NAH! Things can still change, but very little, like the KB-GH thing.
Anyway, that's how I feel. Contact me ASAP, I need to go to class in a few!
CWalNYC
The (T) has the same thing with buses on the weekends, but only with two garages.
Fellsway and Albany are open Mo-Fr, so operations for the Sa-Su buses operate from Charlestown (for Fellsway routes) and Cabot (for Albany routes).
Quincy and Lynn are open all week, and so they do not have to rely on buses from other districts.
The following was discussed today
ORION VII-the contract was not cancelled yet. It did flunk the stress test and Orion is working on several possible solutions.
The following also was proposed and action will be taken in May
1-Extend Route M-34 to East 34th Street Pier
2-Reroute B-70 via 92nd Street/Ft Hamilton Pkway instead of current routing of 8th Ave and 86th Street.
3-Extend service span on S-79 and Q-88 to 11 PM on Sundays on both routes.
With apologies to FDNY for beating him to the punch.
Thank You
[1-Extend Route M-34 to East 34th Street Pier ]
What's the routing going to be?
Arti
Will continue on East 34th Street into Pier area. Left on FDR Service route from E.35th St and current route
Thank You
I will publish the details,,when i receive the Agenda
How is everyone
Steve
Steve,
I went to the meeting and posted the agenda on Monday afternoon.
Thabk You
I will post it in FULL Detail...trust me
Steve
Initial Notification
Proposed Service Revision
M34 Route Path Revision to Serve
34st Ferry Terminal
Page 93
Early 2001 Implementation (April 2001 pending NYCDOT modifications to Bus Stop Area at ferry terminal )
Span of Service
Weekdays 526 AM to 101Am
Saturdays 616AM to 1247 AM
Sundays 608 AM to 1216 AM
Due to NY Waterway discontinuing Service
via West 34 st ,east 34 st ,crossing FDR Drive NB and SB Service Roads ,turn north into the Bus Staging area Adjacent to the Pier,
Return via exit at north end of terminal at East 35 st and proceed south on the FDR Drive West service Road ,and west on East 34 St
-----------------------------------------------
NYC Transit Commmittee Notification
Proposed Service Revision
Bus Route B70 Reroute in Bay Ridge
Implementation June 2001
Page 101
via Fort Hamilton Parkway and 92 St ,7 Av
Will make connections with the S73 and S53 at 92 St and Fort Hamilton Parkway
------------------------------------------------
NYC Transit Committee Notification
Q88 Sunday Span Increase
Page 110
Implementation June 2001
Increase service Span until 1115 PM Eastbound,30 Minute Intervals
(presently until 8PM only)
Alternative
expand Morning service to be same as Saturdays --no demand as of yet
------------------------------------------------------
NYC Transit Committee Notification
S79 Sunday Span Increase
page 119
Implementation July 2001
Increase service Span until 11 PM from Bay Ridge
and 950 PM from Staten Island Mall
---30 Minute Freqs bet 9 PM and 11 PM
Read the M34 Changes only
Hi.
Like Orion5's? Then come to my Photo page and see them. Here's the link.
http://community.webshots.com/user/mta99
Enjoy!!
Hi.
You got photos of Orion5's? It don't have to be just MTA NYC Transit. It could be from any where in the US and Canada. You could send them to me at MTAboy99@aol.com .This is for the photo page on Diffent Orion5's. So if you have them and willing like to send them to me for my photo page on Orion5's. Please do so.
Orion5 #135
Webmaster of Orion5 Photo page.
I don't have what you're looking for, but would you post your website address so we can take a looksee?
I don't have what you're looking for, but would you post your website address so we can take a looksee?
How About the WMATA MBTA And MTA Buy the NovaBus LFS they really need it!
We don't need low floor buses in DC. They are UGLY and look funny. I would rather have the monotony of the Orion Vs (which I happen to like to some extent) rather than have buses that George Lucas probably designed running thru the area.
Now now, not all low floor buses are as ugly as the Orion VI and the Orion II. Besides, the interior of the bus was somewhat decent, at least on the Orion VIs. However, I really think that the LFS isn't the type of bus for Metro. WAAYY too dainty, despite the fact that I may like it. SEPTA should get it, though, it sorta has that SEPTA look in a way.
SEPTA tested an LFS a few years ago. Obviously, SEPTA didn't like the bus, which is why they're getting New Flyer D40LF buses. 100 this year, 100 next year.
was that bus number wasd 9901
and also i thought they charge the order to nabi instead of the new flyers.
Yes it was. There was a picture of that bus taken in 1996, from the Motor Bus Society web site.
This was probably before the New scheme was in effect.
That's the Fishbowl that's runs around on Market Street.
was that bus number was 9901
Well, the low floor that's tested is number 5401 IIRC.
Well, as you can see, the LFS wasn't good enough for SEPTA.
The MBTA tested an LFS last year and was pleased with the bus. When the order for 124 low-floor CNG buses went out for bid though, it was straight low-bid and NABI put in a lower bid than Nova or Neoplan (Orion and New Flyer didn't bid). The MBTA also has 15 C40LFs on order from New Flyer, only because they wanted 15 CNG low-floors by the end of 2001 and New Flyer was the only builder willing to open up a slot on their production line. Sometimes different types of buses are ordered because of price and/or delivery dates available and not because a transit authority likes or doesn't like a particular model.
Very true; in 1988, Valley Metro (Roanoke, VA) was to place a bid for some new Flx Metros. They had run Flxibles since 1976 and found them to be the best buses they ever ran, and got great product support from the factory. However, the bid came up high, so they gave low bidder Gillig a try, and that's what they have bought ever since then.
-F.
LF buses aren't ugly. The Orion VI, although crap on wheels looks very nice. The best Orion out there, look wise. The only thing I don't like is that WMATAs paint scheme makes the front headlamps look hideous. But the NYC versions are great looking for an Orion. I also like the way the D40LF looks, for a plane bus, it's pretty damn atteactive. Much better than the crusty old Orion V.
As for the LFS, the are ugly buses. I hope none EVER make it to Houston.
Yeah, I'm not crazy about the looks of an LFS; it is just hideous, especially the round headlights. The only buses that look good with single round headlights are Old Looks! I also HATED these lights on the Canadian-built Flx New Looks of the 1960s. Very ugly there indeed!
-F.
I sorta liked how the WMATA paint scheme made the headlamps sorta more like cars or something. Oh well, that was the effect I got from it anyway.
I agree; most low floors are pretty ugly and look like something I ate and dropped. The only exception thus far would be the New Flyer Invero; it has some nice retro styling cues plus smooth looking side glass. Bet it would look nice in WMATA trim!
-F.
The Gillig Low Floor looks pretty good; I like the fact that it has full-size wheels rather than the smaller ones seen on the New Flyer et al. I do, however, dislike the front destination sign area; it looks too much like something off a cheaper light-duty bus or an entry-level RV. I think the creased sign area of the Phantom would look better on this bus.
Also, I like the wraparound front turn signals; they remind me of the Flx Metro. Perhaps Gillig should carry these over to the Phantoms; they'd look a lot better than the current front end setup.
-F.
I happen to think that the LFS is the nicest low floor currently available in the US or Canada. It's eye-catching and sleek on the outside and makes excellent use of interior space.
But, why do you think that these transit systems need the LFS specifically? I agree that if they are to go low-floor, the LFS might be the ideal bus, but is that what you are trying to say?
I would love to see an LFS in WMATA Metrobus colors, but I don't think that low floor buses are very well suited to most Metrobus service. Plus, they already have 100 Orion low floors and at least 100 New Flyer low floors are on order. That being said, I predict that WMATA will be a long-time customer of standard floor buses.
i definately think the TA should buy the LFS. If the Orion VII is a cancelled, and the LFS did do well when here(I rode it when it was assigned to the M14 route). They should order more.
I prefer to hold off until the low-floor RTS-LF is finally introduced to the market before stating what I think NYCT should buy next; I must admit that I think the NFI Invero would look cool in the NYCBus livery, however.
:-)
WMATA is committed to their order for 100 New Flyer C40LF buses. The MBTA has already placed an order with NABI for 124 CNG low floor buses. I don't think they're going to go with the LFS any time soon.
In a few weeks, I will be in the Washington D.C. area. If time permits, I'm going to try to get out and photograph some Metro and Ride-On buses. Any suggestions as to which locations are best for bus photographers?
Jim (RailBus)
Silver Spring, Shady Grove, and Rockville for Ride-On. Pentagon is also presumebly susposed to be good as well for MetroBus.
The Pentagon bus facility is indeed an excellent spot for bus photos. As far as other NoVa locations go, Ballston isn't bad, nor Tysons Corner Center (not directly Metrorail-accessible).
But I agree, Silver Spring is probably the mother of them all. Bethesda boasts those spiffy new trolleys, too.
C
At the Pentagon, you'll get Metrobuses, Fairfax Connector, DASH and PRTC buses, a nice platter of buses!!
Farragut Square also has a lot of buses that roll by at rush hours. For all the bus routes that go to Ballston, its a rather disappointing selection at times since its very rare that more than 6 or 8 buses would be there at a time.
Drivers for CT Transit's 3 divisions have voted to reject management's contract offer and may strike if further negotiations fail to resolve the issues. The drivers union claims that the raises offered are too low and the benefit costs are too high. CT Transit serves the Hartford, New Haven, and Stamford areas. Thousands of riders would be affected should the strike take place.
Mark Watson
Best Cutaway Showdown
They're often dismissed as anemic and underpowered, or shoddily built. But cutaway buses (nee cab-and-chassis or Class C) are everywhere.
They don't earn much discussion in BusTalk. How about it? What's the best brand? Any favorites? Or are they all crap, suitable only for one-mile routes to airport hotels?
My vote is for the StarTrans line.
how do you put picture in there.
These response boxes take HTML markup ... so you use HTML code, if you know it.
Quick-and-dirty code for doing that is:
< img src="http://image.location/goes.here" >
(remove the extra spaces between the text and the brackets -- I only put them there so that the browser wouldn't actually try to render the above sample code as an image)
YOu'll need to have the image on your own web space.
Now, how about some cutaway nominations?
C
Now where I have to put that?
I'm not much on cutaways; they are just glorified vans and not buses. Give me a real transit bus any day.
-F.
is the septa breze consider cataways.
Haven't seen 'em . . . been a while since I've been in Philly. Their LUCY route, if I recall correctly, was operated with cutaways. I guess I define a cutaway as a van-based bus . . . so Orion IIs and other "minibuses" don't count per se, but anything with a Ford, GMC, or Chevy snout on it does.
C
here a site with cutaways and eldorados on it here
How did you put the Link in the posting?
Today's Mission Monday was one that took alot of energy. Today's Mission Monday started out at 4:16am with a Southbound NJ Transit Route 159 ride to the Port Authority on a Volvo B-10M Articulated, followed by a quick R-38 subway car ride on the (A) line to Penn Station.
To achieve today's mission, I copped a ride on the Metroliner #201 to Washington, DC. However that's not where the mission began. Today's mission began in Wilmington, DE. After mailboxing at the Amtrak station shooting photos, I boared one of DART's MCI D4000 Cruisers #902 on the 301 line. I rode this bus all the way out to Christiana Mall in Christiana. After mailboxing for about 20 minutes for photos, I boarded a Flxible METRO-B #248 on the 5 line and headed off for the DART Rodney Square Garage. After a brief stop over at the garage for photos. I continued downtown on another Flxible METRO-B #302 on the 33 line, and alighted at the last stop, Rodney Square. After a quick stop at a Krispy Kreme (DONUTS, AAAAAAHHHHH!), I walked down King Street back to the Amtrak Station, taking photos along the way.
At 10:23am I reboarded Amtrak (Metroliner #106) heading towards New York, however that was not the next destination, I alighted at 30th Street Philadelphia. After walking around the 30th St Station area for about 25 minutes, I grabbed a quick bit and headed downstairs for a ride on NJ Transit's 11:18am Atlantic City Line to Atco Station. At Atco Station everyone was told to detrain and board shuttle buses for the duration of the trip to Atlantic (The Choice were NJT Flxible METRO-B #3156, MCI MC-9A #6440 and MCI MC-9A #6518), though a Flxible fan, I knew this was gonna be a long trip so I opted for #6440. 1 1/2 hours later, we arrived at the Atlantic City Convention Center. From there I walked over to the AC Bus Terminal and snapped away, nice variety of equipment there.
After that photo stop, I boared the 2pm NJT Route #319 back to NYC using MCI MC-9B #5061. Ride was nice, took about 2 1/2 hours. After arriving back to NYC. I reboared my home bus, the Route #159 and head home.
THAT WAS A REAL MISSION MONDAY! YEEE HAWWWW!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
[From there I walked over to the AC Bus Terminal and snapped away, nice variety of equipment there.]
Trevor, I recollect that Atlantic City got a good supply of those 30-foot Novas. Is this all they now use in local service, or did you see other buses in such service?
I saw both Baby Novas (25xx Series) and Standard Novas (Mainly 15xx Series), about 2 of the new MCI D4000 Cruisers, about 5 MC 9Bs, about 2 MC-9As and a crap load of Greyhounds.
Trevor
Wow...how were the DART Flxes? Bet they were nice!
-F.
Well the 200 Series Flxible METR0-Bs were a little sluggish, but them 300 Series, WOA BABY! Them things move!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
[At 10:23am I reboarded Amtrak (Metroliner #106) heading towards New York, however that was not the next destination, I alighted at 30th Street Philadelphia. After walking around the 30th St Station area for about 25 minutes, I grabbed a quick bit and headed downstairs for a ride on NJ Transit's 11:18am Atlantic City Line to Atco Station. At Atco Station everyone was told to detrain and board shuttle buses for the duration of the trip to Atlantic (The Choice were NJT Flxible METRO-B #3156, MCI MC-9A #6440 and MCI MC-9A #6518), though a Flxible fan, I knew this was gonna be a long trip so I opted for #6440. 1 1/2 hours later, we arrived at the Atlantic City Convention Center. From there I walked over to the AC Bus Terminal and snapped away, nice variety of equipment there.]
NJT is performing track maintenance along the ACRL between Atco and Atlantic City through next week. One bus operates locally between Atco, Egg Harbor City, and Absecon while skipping Hammonton; a second bus operates to Hammonton, then express to AC; the third bus runs express from Atco to Atlantic City.
I'm surprised that Washington Twp sent two buses over (3156 and 6440). I thought the entire shuttle operation would be operated by Egg Harbor. Also, I thought they were supposed to use wheelchair lift buses, but I guess Egg Harbor decided to use their D4000s on their regular service. Egg Harbor does have some Metro D Suburbans (6, to be exact); I wonder what will happen to them once all the D4000 cruisers and coaches arrive.
BTW, Sunday, before by delay from hell at the Lincoln Tunnel, I spotted a few D4000 cruisers pulling down runs in AC on the 552 and 553. There are still a few MC-9A cruisers hanging around at Egg Harbor, plus the MC-9Bs (they use them on the 319 and 552, I'm surprised they didn't put them on the 551, since that's a solid 90 minute haul).
AFA Washington Twp goes, they're supposed to get their batch of D4000 cruisers in July. By the end of the summer, Market St in Philadelphia will be inundated with the D4000s, Novas, and Flxibles. The MC-9As will simply be a memory by then.
This is know! Being a NJT Employee has its perks!
Trevor
Did most NYC buses have it on? Because I rode LI Bus today (N27, N15) and there wasn't air conditioning on any of the buses. I had two 300s going, and had Cummins on the way back. Those Cummins were running hot.
Heard there were alot of breakdowns (probably Cummins). Also saw 645 broke down by Roosevelt Field. And some other hazards. Loose pole swinging back and forth on 210. Also saw a Cummins with the compartment door on the outside of the bus (drivers side) open and swinging.
LI Bus has bad maintainance, and I definately sweated like a pig on the bus (even though the windows were open) it was a warm day. The air should've been on.
NYC Transit's buses are equipped with fully automatic climate control systems that are designed to provide whatever is needed at the moment (heat, air conditioning, or straight ventilation). By rule, the climate control system is supposed to be on at all times, but sometimes the Bus Operator takes it upon him/herself to shut it off.
NYCDOT's buses are different (some don't have fully automatic HVAC systems), and I don't know what DOT's rules are.
David
LI Bus may be like that too. But what is the reasoning behind not having a fully automatic climate control in DOT's (and most likely LI's) buses? I think all public buses should be required to have automatic systems. Maybe that's one reason (and only one) that NYC's private lines should be taken over by MTA nyct.
What is involved with getting A/C operational in a non-automatic system? If it's simple then it could've been done already. I know those lazy mechanics at LI Bus didn't want to work this weekend! :-0
In older systems (like those on the Fishbowls) there were some pipes and such that had to be changed out. The bus could not be set up for heat and for air-conditioning at the same time. I'm pretty sure that even if the controls aren't fully automatic, the present HVAC systems don't require changeover (just the flick of a switch on the Operator's console), but I could be wrong...
As to whether all buses should be equipped with fully automatic HVAC, that's for the operating agencies to decide. Perhaps the fully automatic controls cost more -- can anyone shed any light on this issue or on the one above?
David
Had 116 on the q12 Sunday nite and she had no a/c as well as being regulated being she had no speed or pick up on Norther Bl.
Does anyone know this policy on NJ Transit? I have an idea of what it is (If it works you can use it) The only problem with the Flixables the air has a funny smell to it. It smells like diesel lol. Riding the 190 it stinks.
Lack of AC doesn't seem to be a problem with NJ Transit.
The Novas have very good AC, and the old Flxibles worked pretty well also. The MC-9's also have good AC, and the one CNG 102D3 I rode (7006) was FREEZING! Haven't experienced AC on the new D4000's yet, but I imagine they're also quite frosty.
I only remember one bus ride with broken AC. It was in June of 1996, right before the end of school. I was in 7th grade and on my way home on the #72 bus, a former NYC Grumman (2000-series), and the driver had a hand-written note taped to the farebox that said "No A/C!"
And he was right!
Satin himself would've suffered a heat stroke on that sumbitch!
A friend of mine asked and i had no idea........
What is the location of Peter Pan's facility in Secaucus NJ and what are some general directions?
I thought they were still in Bayonne.
I remember hearing that Peter Pan moved from Bayonne to Secaucus within the past year or two. Here is the info I retrieved from Yahoo Yellow Pages:
Peter Pan Bus Lines Inc
15 County Ave # 25, Secaucus, NJ 07094
(201) 436-6575
According to the accompanying map, the location is near where County Avenue and New County Avenue intersect. To get there from the Lincoln Tunnel, I would suggest Route 495 to Route 3 West, getting off at Paterson Plank Road westbound. Take a left at the traffic light following the New Jersey Turnpike overpass, which is County Road. Continue past the light at Secaucus Road, and it should be near the point where New County Road branches off to the right and County Road continues to the left.
Not to say that other transit authorities are not interesting because they are....BUT I've have noticed that the people that used to be on the ball with the NYCT and NYCDOT post have kind of disappeared?
What the heck is going on?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
They get fed up with the massive bueraucratic incompetence of the MTA and leave. I know a fair number of them.
Peace,
ANDEE
I am a T/O now, so I realy don't know what up with the buses any more. I post thing if I hear them from the driver I know.
Robert
Things are kind of slow with NYC buses. In fact, their bus assignment has stayed the same since January. No buses have really been swapped around since UP sent JAM a few 9200s in February.
With the problems NYCT is having with new bus deliveries (New Flyer and Orion), look for older buses (1984 through 1986 RTS's) to stay around for a while.
9286-9288 UP-QV. Figure this out: 1751, 1767, 1773, 1852, 3807, 3818 and 3824 are still chugging out of QV Depot.
Q79#9288Gary
Q46#1751Gary
Don't worry Trevor, I'm still around also. Like Q5Merrick said, things with NYCT have been slow lately, with no bus moves, major accidents or incidents to talk about. Also, 12 Sun/Sat RDO's (reg. days off) were cut from this pick in Jamaica depot so service could be added on the weekend, resulting in me having to pick a later schedule, so I don't get home now till about 10:30pm and I still work overtime in the morning, so I don't get much time to go into bustalk during the week anymore. I still peek into it at least every other late night to see the messages but usually only post now on the weekend, with the exception of this post.
It's good to know that we NYCT bustalkers have not been forgotten about. Keep up the good work guys and remember, we have not abandoned ship.
BIG AL
yukon seems to be on par with queens village what with 2270,2660 and several decrepit 4000 series. i pull out at 253 pm and they are kind enough to give me an 8000 series daily. 4148 has never received the new paint job on doors and windows and where are mci buses 2180-2209. does anybody know?
I thought you drove MCI buses. It was stated on here once that when you pull out an MCI, you can never drive another RTS. It sounds ridiculous so maybe someone can clear that up.
whoever said that was wrong. i drive mci in the morning and local bus in the afternoon
Today was the hottest day yet. So the N21 to Flushing comes and there's no air conditioning. It's 316. Saw many other buses with no A/C (all windows open) on the way to Flushing around noon. The bus was crowded after Great Neck and I just had to bail at Little Neck, I have low tolerance for the hot weather, let alone on a crowded, stifling bus. I got the Q12 which had air conditioning and took it to Flushing. I only counted two LI Buses with A/C, both N20 Hicksville. N20's always get better treatment than N21 (ya know, Glen Cove is a loser town).
All the NYCT buses I saw appeared to have air conditioning. But I did see quite a few QSC Orions and RTS's w/no A/C. How do these companies get away with it? It was in the mid 80s today which was hot, and there should be a law stating it is "not healthy" to run an unairconditioned bus in this weather. I really feel bad for the drivers who have to drive that hotbox all day.
I did complain to LI Bus last year about the no A/C problem, which was common even in the middle of the summer. The folks there claim that even if all windows are open that doesn't mean the A/C isn't on (yeah right!).
Difference this year is I live alone now and rely entirely on the bus. If they can't get their A/C act together than there's gonna be hell to pay.
Going back I had a diesel Orion with the A/C on, but as Murphy's law states, the cold front came through and it wasn't 80 anymore. Go figure!
i don't like the older buses to much in the hot a far as a/c wise.
Remember that prior to 1967 or thereabouts, just about all NYC transit buses were ordered without air conditioning. I'm not saying that it's OK for authorities to run air conditioned buses without a/c today. But a passenger complaining about occasional buses with non-working a/c should keep in mind that some of us old-timers had to ride on buses that had absolutely no a/c ever.
Buses that I had today that had no a/c: Q60 GBL 648, 5546. Q46 MTA 3959. The other Q46 buses that I had today- 4324, 8366 and 4933 had the a/c on. Reason why most buses do not have a/c yet is because that is not installed on the buses until the beginning of May. So expect some a/c buses starting next week.
Q46#4933Gary
Q60#5546Gary
So it does have to be installed. Didn't I hear most NYCT buses are automatic? Perhaps the older buses are this way as well as DOT's (and LIB's)?
If most cars come with A/C, why do buses have to be switched? In a car nothing needs to be switched.
All NYCT and all LIB buses are equipped with air conditioning. Therefore, to say that these buses are "unairconditioned" is inaccurate. If no cold air was felt, either the climate control was off (which is a violation on NYCT buses -- in fact, the HVAC switch has a red cover on it; as I said before, I'm unclear on LIB's rule) or it was malfunctioning. In either case, reporting it ON THIS BOARD isn't likely to change the situation; reporting it to the appropriate agency would be somewhat more likely to get the problem corrected (whether it's behavioral or equipment-based).
As to LIB's reply to a previous complaint, I have been on many buses that had some/all windows and/or roof hatches open with the AC going full blast, and I have seen people open windows and/or hatches with the AC working fine. Some people just can't leave well enough alone.
David
I really think the best windows for a bus are the ones that have only the top part open inward (like on Ride-On buses). WHen the a/c doesn't work, or isn't entirely needed and just needs fresh air, you can open that. When the a/c is on, jsut close it. Besides, the passgeners won't go up and open them theirselves.
I remember hearing that LIB had to switch their HVAC to A/C. Perhaps that was just an excuse. Seeing so many buses (and riding on quite a few) with no A/C is a concern, especially when it's in the 80s outside.
Some drivers are told to shut it off to improve speed, but I've heard some LIB drivers say the buses will stall with the A/C on. Maybe it's a CNG problem or something, but I doubt it. LI Bus is on a tight budget and is probably trying to get away with saving fuel.
As far as LIB's HVAC policy I don't think there is any, there has been many atime I've rode on LI Buses with no blowers going.
LIB has much lower standards than NYCT, believe me.
What's the difference between HVAC and A/C?
HVAC - Heat/Ventilation/Air Conditioning.
AC - Atlantic City.
You should be happy you weren't in Houston last summer. We hit temps of 110 degrees seemingly week after week. In the summers prior to that, the RTS buses which dominated almost every route were ovens in the back. You could actually BURN YOUR HAND by touching a certain part of the seat. It's just in the 80s there, it's really not that bad.
It's amazing how any bus could function in that kind of heat. How do they keep the buses from overheating?
The following are a list of my proposed Brooklyn Bus Route Changes
1-Restructure B-1 and B-64 to create a 1 seat 86th Street Service.
B-1 to operate between Mackenzie St/Oriental Blvd and Shore Rd/86th Street. B-64 to operate between Stillwell Ave Terminal and Shore Rd/Bay Ridge Ave.
2- Restructure B-16 Ft Hamilton Pkway route to operate via Ft Hamilton Pkway between Dahill Rd and 56th/57th Street.Create a new route from 20th Street/Prospect Park West to VA Hospital via 13th/14th Avenues. This route will be extended to 95th St/4th Ave Station replacing current B-8 service. The B-8 will terminate at VA Hospital at all times.
3- Consolidate B-40 Ralph Ave and B-78 Ralph Ave routes into one route operating from Williamsburg Bridge Plaza to Kings Plaza. Extend the B-65 Bergen Street route from Ralph Ave/St Johns Place to Penn./Liberty Ave via current B-40 route.
4-Extend B-51 Manhattan Bridge route from City Hall to Liberty/West Street(World Trade Center) and from Smith/Fulton Sts to Ashland/Hanson Place Flatbush Ave LIRR Station.
5-Extend B-4 Bay Ridge Parkway from Knapp St/Voohries Ave to Knapp St/Ave Y.
6-Extend B-36 Surf Ave from Nostrand/Ave U to Kings Plaza via Ave X,Knapp St,Gerrittsen Ave,Avenue U.
7-Create a new route from Mackenzie Street/Oriental Blvd to W.37th St/Mermaid Ave via Brighton Beach Ave,Neptune Ave,Mermaid Ave.
8-Extend B-68 Coney Island Ave from W.5th St/Surf Ave to Stillwell Ave Terminal
9-Reroute B-13 Crescent Street from Myrtle/Wykoff Ave to Metropolitan Ave/Fresh Pond Rd. Extend B-52 Gates Ave from Myrtle/Wykoff to Fresh Pond Road.
10-Create a new route from Long Island Rail Road Station at Ashland/Hanson Place to Woodhull Medical Center via Carlton Ave.
Additional changes will follow.
Any comments.
Thank You
#1 (B1/B64 swap) has been proposed by NYCT and has been rejected by Bay Ridge riders. It's still something NYCT would like to do.
#2 (B16 reroute/create new route): The 13th/14th Avenue corridor is very lightly traveled, even when school is open (most B16 riding occurs between Fourth Avenue and Fort Hamilton HS during school hours). Creating an additional route in the area would be throwing good money after bad.
#3 (B40/B78 swap) has been proposed by NYCT and is still on the "wish list."
#4 (B51 extension on both ends): The route is a slave to the Manhattan Bridge. One traffic jam and it's all over. Extending the route would only exacerbate the reliability problems.
#5 (B4 extension): This route is also a very poor performer. There is little, if any, market along Knapp Street between Voorhies Avenue and Avenue Y.
#6 (B36 extension) was proposed as part of NYCT's Southwest Brooklyn Study several years ago. Unlimited-ride Metrocards have made this less necessary than it may once have been.
#7 (new route between Kingsborough College and W. 37th Street): Has possibilities, but most of the routing is already served by other routes -- how many people are traveling from one end of the proposed route to the other?
#8 (B68 extension) was also proposed under Southwest Brooklyn and is still on the "wish list."
#9 (B13 and B52 extensions): Merger of B13 and B18 has been considered. B52 reliability is so-so; extending the route isn't likely to improve things, and besides, wouldn't it be duplicating the M train?
#10 (new route from Ashland Place to Woodhull Hospital) sounds suspiciously like the old B19, at least in part. The B19 was discontinued because of VERY low ridership. Has the population increased and have travel patterns changed that much in that area over the past 10 years or so?
David
Thank You for your comments. You are correct that some of these changes were proposed under the Southwest Brooklyn service Plan which was never implemented due to Budget cuts in the fall of 1995. Just some additional comments
On Item 2 a 13th/14th Ave route will create a new service to/from the VA Hospital on a one seat ride which currently does not exist. In additiom by routing the B-16 along Ft Hamilton Pkway will provide direct service to Maimoides Hospital on 49th Street .
On Item # 4 you are correct about the Manhattan Bridge put these extenstions will allow Manhattan passengers a one seat ride to the World Trade Center something that B-51 riders currently do not have. In addition by extending the B-51 to the LIRR Station will allow LIRR passengers a connection to the Downtown Brooklyn Civic Center without taking crowded subways of the B-41,B-45 and B-67 buses,
On the B-4 extenstion there is a sports complex at Ave Y and Knapp Street which will draw traffic. Knapp St bound buses will travel via Bragg Street where there is currently no service in a residential area.
Items 6 and 7 were also part of the Southwest Brooklyn Study and were proposed by the TA
Item # 9 the B-52 extenstion will not be for all buses. Most buses will still terminate at Myrtle Ave but lunch breaks and run offs can be done at Fresh Pond Road.
Item # 10- You are correct but changes in the area I feel justify these chnages.
Thanks again for your imput.
Northern Terminal on the south curb of Bartow av,farside of Coop City Blvd
Southern Terminal on City Island on the west curb of City ISland Av nearside of Rochelle St
Northbound Route from City Island via U turn,City Island Av,Traffic Circle,City ISland Road,NET ,Exit 8 A Weschester Av ,To Amendola Plaza.Wilkenson Av,Bruckner Blvd NET,Exit 9 Palmer Av,Hutchinson River East ,Bartow Av,Enter Bay Plaza Shopping C,South on Private Roadway ,past Movie Theatre ,Bay Plaza Blvd,Coop City Blvd ,Bartow Av to Terminal
Return via Bartow Av,Hutchinson River Pwy East,Palmer Av,Stillwell Av,DeReimer Av,Erskine Place,NET,Exit 8A,ot Westchester Av,Bx29
Bx29 Pelham Bay
Bx29
Bx29 Coop City
Bx29 Bay Plaza
Bx29 City Island
Queens Blvd Bridge
Detour
Queens Eastbound only
via Queensboro Bridge,Queens Plaza South ,to 28 st,R on 28 St,,Left on 42 Road,,Right on Jackson Av,Left ON Thompson Av,Left to Queens Blvd and regular to 81 St
Limited Stops all Depots---DELETE
Express all Depots-- DELETE
M57 Sutton Pl
Crosstown
now is
M57 East Side
York --60 St
Crosstown
(126 St Depot)
M57 Bway -72 St
Crosstown
is now the
M57 Westside
Bway---72 St
Crosstown
(126 St Depot)
M57 11 Av
Crosstown
is now
M57 11 AV
(126 St Dept)
Bx16 Webster Av
(Gun Hill Depot)
New Sign
B40 Bway Jct
Penn Av
is now
B40 East NY
Atlantic Av
(ENY Depot)
Q59 Fresh Pnd Rd
Grand Av
is now
Q59 64 St
Grand Av
(fresh Pond)
Q88 Rego Park
Queens Bl
is now
Q88 Elmhurst
Queens Bl
(Queens Village)
S92 Limited
S I College
via Victory
(castleton)
NEW reading
X51 Midtown
3 Av-59 St
is now
X51 E.Midtown
3 Av --57 St
(Stengel)
SHUTTLE TO
GRAND ST
(hUDSON )
NEW READING
SHUTTLE TO
CANAL ST STA
(hUDSON)
new READING
Why are they getting rid of LIMITED STOPS and EXPRESS?
Limited Stop ---is being reworded to affect individual routes--ie -B46 LTD ,
Express===used interchangeably with LTD signs --in error
--therefore ,,both are eliminated
read these,
Due to having a car in the shop with a bum radiator and the wife having a serious errand to run I took Suffolk Transit home today.
Caught the 3:00 N/B S-29 at Sunrise Hwy and Deer Park Avenue. The bus operated by Intercounty Motor Coach, as contractor for Suffolk County, was # 9633 a Gillig.
The bus was on-time and had one passenger. The bus shifted very hard and the driver was braking well before I thought necessary. I don't think he had any confidence in the brakes and was giving himself a large margin of error. One more passenger got on and got off about 1 mile later. The first one got off and then I was the solo. As I was getting off, I asked the driver if this was a Gillig. He looked at the registration and said yes. I remarked that the tranny was shifting hard. He said yes because the bus is a piece of junk.
Waited about 25 minutes and connected with my namesake, a Hart Bus. The bus was #302 an Orion I operating on the H-4 N/B. That bus ran very smoothly and was quite a contrast to the Gillig.
Funny thing about both buses was that there was no advertising on interior of both buses. Don't know why. IIRC the last time on the buses, maybe 10 years ago there were ads. Seems foolish not to seek out more revenue.
Alan
So was the A/C on? I heard it was in the 60s to near 70 all day on the south shore and Suffolk county while we were baking in the 80s all day in northern Nassau.
The A/C was not on on either bus. However, the windows were open and the roof hatches were also in the open position. I had to wait about 15 minutes for the S-29. I was wearing a suit and was not uncomfortable since it was an overcast day. There was enough of a breeze when the buses were traveling as well as not being overloaded with passengers so that one didn't think of needing a/c.
Hope to see some of my fellow B-T'ers up in Branford this Sat.
Hart Bus
Why? What's happening in Branford this Saturday?
Saturday is Members Day at the Shoreline Trolley Museum from 10 AM until 6 PM. Although it is primarily for trolleys, streetcars and subway cars, some B-T'ers like Thurston and myself will be there. They also have 3 GM Old Looks, one Fishbowl (a 4515 IIRC) and a trolley-bus.
Volunteers are always needed. There was some talk about trying to restore one of the old looks and get it road worthy. I hope to go up one day this summer and help out.
Are HART buses operated by HART itself or contracted out to Huntington Coach Corp (the one time provider of local routes and the LIRR's road'n'rail service with SDM's) ?
Hart Bus stands for Huntington Area Rapid Transit and is operated by the Town Government. The buses show Town of Huntington as "operator" on the outside.
IIRC when the town started the service a contractor (may have been Huntington Coach) ran the service. For some reason that I can't remember (not poor service or anything) the Town took over the operations maybe a year or two after starting it.
BTW - Huntington Coach Corp is one of the biggest school bus operators in the area and no hasn't had any transit or OTR buses in their fleet for about 20 years.
My own experiences with Suffolk Transit haven't really been good ones. I took the # 35 occassionally to the Lindenhurst RR sta. when I lived in North Lindenhurst. Sometimes it came. Sometimes it didn't. Even when it came, it often made me miss my train.
Andrew
SCT is so bad it makes LI Bus look excellent. I feel bad for anybody who has to depend on that system for transportation.
[Don't know why. IIRC the last time on the buses, maybe 10 years ago there were ads. Seems foolish not to seek out more revenue. ]
Perhaps the fact that there are so few riders had made advertizers uninterested.
Arti
I guess that could be the reason why Suffolk Transit Buyed Orions after 1996.BTW. Do you have any Suffolk Transit Orion5 Photos on you? If you do please send them to me at MTAboy99@aol.com. It's for my Photo page on Orion5's from Everywhere. Please come and check it out.
Orion5 #135
http://www.community.webshots.com/user/mta99
With the MTA eliminating the EXPRESS and LIMITED STOPS signs, I have to ask about another sign.
I distinctly remeber there being signs on Grummans as well as GMC RTSs that would display the following on holidays:
HAPPY HOLIDAYS
What happened to that sign?
Also were there any more signs like this that got eliminated?
Trevor has a link to Bus Destination Signs on Transitalk. It has not been updated in a while. Is there any other sites like this?
what routes do you need,buddy ??
Steve
FDNY
I will give you 1 or 2 specifically
--my stuff is up to date
I think EnIgMa6903 is talking about the PR messages like "EXPRESS" and "LIMITED STOPS"
PR 1 = 1
PR 2 = 1
PR 3 = (blank)
PR 4 = Testing dots black
PR 5 = Testing dots yellow
PR 6 = (blank)
PR 7 = Limited Stops
PR 8 = Express
PR 9 = ...........
Dest 1 = 1
Dest 2 = (blank)
Dest 3 = (blank)
Dest 4 = ----------
Dest 5 = (blank)
Dest 6 = Not in Service
Dest 7 = Subway Shuttle
Dest 8 = ?
Dest 9 = ?
Dest 10 =?
Dest 11 = Next Bus Please
Dest 12 = Not In Service
Dest 13 = Training Bus
Off the top of my head.... I believe that's all of them. There were roll-signs on the older RTS buses that had a larger output configuration, but those signs have been removed.
There were roll-signs on the older RTS buses[...]
In NYC? If NYCTA ever had RTS buses with rollsigns, they did a most excellent job of hiding them from me.
The only RTS with a rollsign operating for the NYCTA was the RTS-03(#200)that was tested in 79/80.
Did it run in passenger service? On what lines? Was it removed from service after the test?
I saw a pic of it being tested on the B41 for the rest of the info on the bus,check www.omot.org under the bus production list for the RTS's
When I said "Roll Signs", I was referring to the method in which the sign was changed, as in a set of "rolling dials" rather than the touch buttons use now; not the actual sign itself. Sorry about the confusion.
Np,even though the early RTS-04's would ahve looked cool with the blue/red TA curtains.GBL's did originally wwith the split red.
PR 10 = See Sign Below (forgot that one)!
My main question is what had happened to
HAPPY HOLIDAYS
When was it removed?
In Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx, the limited-stop service along local routes share the route number (M15/M15 LTD, B46/B46 LTD, et al)
However, on Staten Island, the limited-stop service carries a different route number - S40/S90, S61/S91, et al
Why is this?
Thanks.
In Staten Island, the routes were renumbered in 1990, so they made the separate numbers then.
In any case, North Shore routes are in the S40s, Cross-island routes are S50s, Victory Boulevard is S60, the South Shore is S70 and limited is S90 with the digit in the ones place the same as the equivalent local route.
Below is a list of the changes, courtesy of Hank Eisenstein:
S1
S40
S2
S51 (rerouted after elimination of s72)
S3
S46
S4
S59 (rerouted)
S5
Combined with s104 prior to renumbering
S6
S66
S6S
S60
S7
S53
S101
S42
S102
S104
S103
S78 (Tottenville)/S79 (SI Mall; later rerouted from St. George to Bay Ridge)
S104
S52 (rerouted)
S106
S67
S107
S48
S108
eliminated prior to renumbering
S109
S72, later eliminated. S51 rerouted.
S110
S54 (extended to cover portion of s4 eliminated)
S111
eliminated.
S106
S57
S111
See S106
S112
S62
S113
S74
S115
S55/56 (later rerouted)
S117
S76
S61
New route
The following are additional changes in Brooklyn bus service that I feel should be made.
1-Extend Q-24 Atlantic Avenue to DeKalb Ave and Malcom X Blvd.
Connections to B-38 to downtown Brooklyn and to B-46 service will be easier
2-Consolidate B-2 Flatbush Ave/Ave R and B-100 Fillmore Ave/E. 66th St which will be taken over from NYCDOT into one route to be called B-2 Avenue R/East 66th Street which will operate from Kings Highway Station to 56 Dr/Strickland Ave or Kings Plaza. Route will operate via current B-2 route to Flatbush/Ave U then via Ave U ,E. 66th St then via current B-100 route.
3-Begin Limited Stop Service on the following routes:
B-15 New Lots Ave JFK Buses only rush hours
B-35 Church Ave between McDonald Ave and Utica Ave only.
B-38 DeKalb Avenue-Myrtle Ave branch only
4-Extend B-13 Crescent Street from Fountain/Vandalia to Starret City(Penn Seaview Aves)
5-Extend B-18 Wykoff Ave to Kent Ave/Broadway replacing current B-24 service which will operate to Woodhull Medical Center. Reroute Q-54 Metropolitan Ave service via Metropolitan Ave instead of Grand Street.
The extended B-18 will operate via Grand Street instead.
6-Extend B-43 Graham/Kingston Ave to Park Circle(buses have to pull out and pull in and will provide transfer to B-68 route. The B-48 did this prior to electric coach operation in the late 1940's). Alternate B-43 buses will continue to terminate at F;atbush Avenue.
7-Create a new route from Nostrand/Flatbush Ave IRT Station to E.74th St/Ave L via Ave K ,Ralph Ave,Ave L
8-Create a new route from Erie Basin to World Trade Center via Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.
9-Extend B-39 Williamsburg Bridge route from Allen Street to Bowery.
10-B-31 Gerrittsen Ave buses to operate express between Nostrand Ave and East 16th Street rush hours with a stop at Ocean Ave.
11-Alternate B-82 buses from Canal/Cropsey Ave will terminate at Flatbush Ave. from 5:30AM to midnight. This service will be designated B-5 Kings Highway and operate from Ulmer Park. This change i believe will improve service on the B-82 corridor.
Again your comments are appreciated.
Thank You
1 or 2 more additional changes can be made by extending the B12 and/or B14 in to Queens(X-Bay/Liberty the most logical solution)
#1 (Q24 extension) has possibilities.
#2 (consolidation of B2 and DOT/Command B100) happened during the Pioneer strike of 1980. It could work, but of course the disposition of the B100 is political and not under MTA's jurisdiction.
#3 (Limited-stop service on B15, B35, and B38): Not enough B15 service is operated to sustain Limited-stop service (any travel time savings would be eaten up by increased waiting time, and there isn't enough riding to operate more service than is being operated now); while B35 service is sufficient to be able to split into local and limited-stop components, Church Avenue is too narrow and congested for buses to be able to pass each other; B38 Limited could work if DeKalb and Lafayette Avenues are clear enough for buses to pass each other.
#4 (B13 extension) and #5 (B18 extension): Combination of these two routes is on the "wish list"
#6 (B43 extension): Is this an extension for the sake of an extension? Is this an extension to restore something that was in place 50+ years ago (and may or may not be necessary now)? How much riding would there be between the B68 and B43 corridors?
#7 (new route from Flatbush/Nostrand to E. 74th Street/Avenue L): This would serve an area (Scott Village) that was relatively recently developed and does not now have much in the way of transit service. However, Route B78/Ralph Avenue serves the IRT, albeit in a different location, and Routes B6/Avenue J and B82/Kings Highway are also a short walk away and serve subway lines. It should also be noted than when route B50 was rerouted via Avenue K about ten years ago, community opposition forced it back onto Flatlands Avenue.
#8 (new route from Erie Basin to World Trade Center): Extensive origin/destination studies would have to be done to determine whether there is a market for this. I would imagine that most people from this area get to the F/G trains and transfer at Jay Street or Hoyt-Schermerhorn to get to the World Trade Center area -- would a bus (albeit with a one-seat ride) be any faster?
#9 (B39 extension) has possibilities, but may be just another extension for the sake of an extension.
#10 (B31 to run "express"): I see the point here (B31 duplicates B2 in this section), but boardings/alightings at stops other than Ocean Avenue between E. 16th Street and Nostrand Avenue are so light that the buses practically run express anyway.
#11 (alternate B82s to be designated B5 and run only between Canal Avenue and Flatbush Avenue): This is a return to the pattern (on the western end) in effect before the B5 and B50 routes were consolidated into the B82. While it might help riders on the western end through increased reliability, it should be noted that most of the riding is on the eastern end, which means the waits on the heavy end of the line would be doubled.
David
You've got some excellent suggestions here. Therefore, there is no future for you at the NYCTA....
3-Begin Limited Stop Service on the following routes:
B-15 New Lots Ave JFK Buses only rush hours
B-35 Church Ave between McDonald Ave and Utica Ave only.
B-38 DeKalb Avenue-Myrtle Ave branch only
The B-35, during it's most heavied travel, travels along a single-laned street. Limited service couldn't possibly work there! Also, during rush hours, Church Avenue is so backed-up toeards Flatbush/Browsnville, that it couldn't move faster then the car directly in front.
At least that's the way it was when I worked it :-)
Are there any changes that are planned currently and likely to be implemented?
The Metrobus rodeo is a great chance to get photos of buses.For more info click here
Today in my travels in NYC, I rode on my first D60HF that was in service. I sat on one of the 2 seats in the accordion billows. Below me is the rotating circle that makes the bus articulated. I noticed an important hazard/danger while sitting there and watching it while on the M86.
When the bus turns, it rotates and has the ability to open a small crevice in the circle just wide enough for something like a cigarette butt to fit in it. This also happens when it goes over a hump where the front is up and the back is level that this crevice is created.
My concern, even though it is not that deep (not even 1/8th inch), if someone drops something in it or near it and goes to pick it up and perhaps their hand rests or falls in the crevice, and the bus rotates or is pushed by the uphill slant etc., the person's hand may be crushed or something to the effect.
Am I right in my observation?
Y'know, come to think of it, yes, youare right, although I think it is not THAT much of a concern. You do bring up a good point though.
The crevice is noticeably large compared to a Neoplan artic I rode in Philadelphia or a M.A.N. artic in Westchester or even a Volvo artic in Newark. However, it should not be too much of a concern since most of the routes that have them don't go up hills that much.
So, point is, although it is a danger, a smal one, don't worry about it so much. It's a typical NYC transit bus. Whaddaya expect?
CWalNYC
They have seats IN the billows?!? That's CRAZY!!! Someone could really get injured should the billows ever rupture. I don't think that's a safe design at all; there should NEVER be seats in the billows of an artic. When I rode a NABI artic at WMATA in 1997, I don't recall there being any seats in that area.
-F.
PAT has seats in that area as well on thier articulateds. Never had a problem at all since the first ones rolled into service in 1979. And for those that don't know, Pittsburgh is mostly all hills, twisty roads and potholes galore.
Much ado about nothing.
They have them there.
They also have warning stickers, warning people not to stand between the in-billows seats and seats in the front and rear coaches.
It's really not a big deal. Although someone theoretically could get squeezed if they stood between the sets of seats, the units articulate in three parts -- front, the circle over the joint, and the rear -- so the angle is not very dramatic and it's not a huge safety issue.
I haven't observed the NYC problem in WMATA articulated coaches, but that would strike me as a hazard. As someone else noted, articulateds aren't known for being sent on particularly hilly or curvy routes, although the WMATA Q2 run from Silver Spring to Shady Grove has its share of both.
C
Buses get crowded. If there were no seats there, people would stand and lean against the not-quite-wall.
I take it not many here have ridden the 1981 Champaign-Urbana (IL) Mass Transit District artics. They've been falling apart for years. There are holes in the billows -- and, yes, there are seats there.
Is this an Ikarus? Sure looks a lot like 280.
Arti
It is a Crown Ikarus 286, which was built in Canada as the Orion III.
Your right! Besides What is the need for Articulated buses?
Well obviously it's very difficult to maneuver a bus that's sixty feet long and has no joint.
If you're wondering why there should be buses that are that long, I guess I can't help you with your dementia.
As much as I hate slow, laboring artics, you're right, there is a definite need for them. Some people would rather sit down in a slow 60ft. bus than stand in a crowded but fast 40 footer.
Yeah.
About the seats in the middle, on almost EVERY artic I've been on, the TA New Flyers, the SEPTA Neoplans, the NJ Transit Volvos, and Bee-Line's M.A.N.s, they both have two seats on both sides in the middle section. Well, can't get away from it!
CWalNYC
Well How About all buses are all baby buses?
Today was the first time I rode on LLE MCI Classics on the BxM4A/B.
I had bus 3042 going to the Bronx. When boarded, I noticed a few things.
1 - NYCTA should get a dollar bill acceptor like the DOTs.
2 - 3042 is a MCI Classic. On the front panel near where the bus number is, there was the Classic Logo. It was so 1980s looking style. In addition, below that in big white letters was MCI. Why is that needed?
3 - 3042 is MCI. Then why did the horn on the steering wheel have the GMC logo?
4 - It reminded me so much of a Fishbowl. There was the rolling route sign, not electronic. Also, the stop Request was a Cord that you pulled. The engine sounded a bit like a Fishbowl's, but more like an early 81-82 RTS Express like 1300 or 1800.
1 - NYCTA should get a dollar bill acceptor like the DOTs.
NYCTA wishes to stay out of the business of handling paper money on the buses. Handling paper money is far more cost and labor intensive than handling coins. I remember a few years ago, some other large TA's were seriously considering to stop accepting paper money. The private lines can handle it because they are much smaller than the TA. Plus, accepting dollar bills could possibly reduce Metrocard use on the buses.
2 - 3042 is a MCI Classic. On the front panel near where the bus number is, there was the Classic Logo. It was so 1980s looking style. In addition, below that in big white letters was MCI. Why is that needed?
I always notice that on Classics, too. There are a few variations. Some of them say DClassic and have a white line shooting through icy blue letters, some of them just bare the older text MCI logo. I don't suppose there is an actual need for it, it is just the manufacturer's mark.
3 - 3042 is MCI. Then why did the horn on the steering wheel have the GMC logo?
As you probably know, the Classic is a GM design. The parts between GM Classics, TMC Classics, MCI Classics, and Nova Classics are all interchangible (and many Classic parts are even interchangible with New Looks). The steering wheel piece was probably a replacement originally from a GM Classic.
4 - It reminded me so much of a Fishbowl.
A Classic essentially is a fishbowl. The construction methods and parts used between the models are largely the same, as the Classic was introduced as a next-generation fishbowl with an updated style.
There was the rolling route sign, not electronic. Also, the stop Request was a Cord that you pulled.
True that those features are commonly associated with fishbowls and other older buses, but they are both options available on any bus old or new. (of course electronic signs on fishbowls and older buses are retrofits).
Very strange indeed; perhaps the horn button was a retrofit. At Blacksburg Transit, we had the same thing with our RTSes; they were made by TMC but had GMC buttons. Same with some of our Flx Metros!
-F.
"On the front panel near where the bus number is, there was the Classic Logo."
LLE is not the only one with their classics with the Classic Logo. . GBL here in Queens have their Classics with the Classic logo. There are 2 As I know of and been on. #707 and #713 have the Classic logo and I not shure if the 1 Door Suburban Classics (#701-#702) Have them too. #707 is a 1989 MCI Classic. #713 is a 1989 2 Door Suburban MCI Classic.
Q10 MCI Classic#707
Q10 MCI Classic#713
The system of letter prefixes on MTA (and other NYC) busses makes sense, since there are so many of them. It also makes sense that it includes Nassau County, since those busses are under the MTA too. But...why does Suffolk County use an "S" prefix?
Suffolk busses are county run, like Rockland and Westchester. Sure they overlap with Nassau, but Westchester and Rockland busses overlap with each other, and Westchester busses with Bronx busses. I know Suffolk also has HART, but if you'll notice, HART does not share any numbers with Suffolk Transit. If they just used numbers, there would be no overlap.
Besides, "S" is already used by Staten Island (though that is forgivable since the Suffolk busses don't come anywhere near Staten Island routes.)
:-) Andrew
Also, Suffolk does not use a prefix on routes with a suffix. So you have the S10, and the 10A.
And Huntington uses H.
There were also L and R prefixes. R was Staten Island before 1975 and L were the 4 Lenox shuttles during the reconstruction in 1998.
The screwup goes back to the days before most BusTalkers were born, if you can believe that.
In the mid-1860's, all the Staten Island routes had their prefix as an "R", obviously for Richmond County. The rest of the counties didn't get such recognition; Manhattan (New York County) still had its "M", Brooklyn (Kings County) still had its "B". But way back in those days, Suffolk didn't even have route numbers, never mind a prefix.
Each little town seemingly had its own bus system, and none of them at the time used route numbers, just destinations. Among them, Bay Shore had Suffolk Bus Company (which had routes around Bay Shore/Brightwaters, and also to Babylon, Central Islip and Brentwood). Mostly GM TDH3501's and older. Along Montauk Highway (and its other names) Utility Lines ran a route from Freeport to Patchogue. They used a variety of TDH4517/4519's and one TDH5302 [321] and even some T6H4523A's. They also had a route from East Islip to Central Islip. That route always got TDH3714 #316. In the late 1960's, they ordered some buses (the 4523's), and they showed up with, and at the time everyone wondered why, "19 Patchouge" and "19 Freeport: destination signs. The route, of course, because the N19 when MSBA took over. Babylon to Patchogue is the S40 but I'm not sure when that designation started as I moved off Long Island by then. (I heard something about a "Four Seasons Bus Company" running the route east of Babylon once MSBA took over, can anyone elaborate?
Dang....yeah, I sure did a good one there -- of course no Subtalkers were born in the date I typed -- 1860's!!!!
I mean to type the 1960's!!!
I don't think Staten Island even had any human beings on it in 1860.....never mind bus routes with letter prefixes!
[In the late 1960's, they ordered some buses (the 4523's), and they showed up with, and at the time everyone wondered why, "19 Patchouge" and "19 Freeport: destination signs. The route, of course, because the N19 when MSBA took over. Babylon to Patchogue is the S40 but I'm not sure when that designation started as I moved off Long Island by then.]
Nassau County route numbers (with the "N" prefix) started quite a number of years before MSBA took over the Nassau bus operations, but I don't remember exactly when (possibly as early as the early 1960's). The numbers were grouped according to private operators (e.g., N1-N7 were Bee Line; N14 & N15 Rockville Centre Bus; N21-N25 Schenck). Because Utility Lines' Freeport-Patchogue route operated a
considerable distance in Nassau County, it was given the N19 designation. When MSBA took over the Nassau County private bus lines, it continued to operate the N19 to Patchogue for awhile, although at some point the line was split in two at Babylon. That portion east of Babylon became the S40. Here my recollection gets a little fuzzy, but it is possible MSBA operated the S40 for awhile, until another private operator was found.
Great! Just what we needed. Another decrepit 1985 vintage RTS. LOL! We go from awaiting delivery of 70 or so brand new New Flyer artics to receiving Nimco quality buses. You gotta love 126!
I know the feeling exactly, DHF60. All too well in fact.
BIG AL
I caught this relic last week Thursday on the M116. The interior high back cushioned express seats are a nice change from cold fiberglass.
Once her services are done at 126 St, that bus will be coming to QV hence that they're short on buses right now.
Q46#3893Gary
Hello everyone; just wanted to keep you posted on my Flx New Look model project.
The one-piece molded plastic body now features wheelwell cutouts, and the chassis/axle subframes have ben fit into the bus. Right now, the model is being tested for rolling ability.
Once everything is into place, look for the first rolling model to go on sale at eBay, possibly in WMATA or PenTran (Hampton, VA) colors.
-F.
let me know when fred-because i would want to buy it off ebay(like the other buses you did for me ;-)
Speaking of buses, and custom stuff, how custom can you go? Like, there is this WMATA bus, a Metro D, 9966, or is it 9967, that was in the new WMATA paint sheme. However, the back part still had the 3 stripes of the old sheme. Plus, the rear number sign was wrong, saying T8 rather than the F2/F4 route it was running.n Oh, do you make destination signs for the buses too?
Yesterday afternoon, I got on a Q88 bus, run #020. The number of the bus was 625. That's right. An Orion was running on the Q88 route. It was a surprise to me because I was expecting an RTS. By the time I got on, all the seats were taken. I was able to get a reclining seat at 108th Street. When were stopped east of Main Street, I saw #522 on the Q20A. Both the front and side signs were properly signed as Q20A: COLLEGE PT/via MAIN ST/via 20 AV. However, the rear sign said Q20B! I guess the person programming the signs got a little confused about the Q20 services.
I saw 623 on the Q46 this morning. I saw her while on 5538 on Q60. Missed 623 so got on 4910. Wednesday morning, 619 623 and 625 were on the Q46. Yesterday 621 and 9287 were on Springfield Bl shuttles on the Q46. 1767 was on Q75 at 5pm last night. Reason why you're seeing 1700s 3800s and 9200s on the local lines is because QV is short on buses.
Figure this 1 out-BIG AL especially: Jamaica has about 30 Nova Express Suburbans for their 2 Express Lines-the X63 and X64. Who was spotted on Queens Blvd doing X64 service this morning but 5150 and 5161. What's going on here?
Q46#611Gary
X64#5161Gary
Q60#5538Gary
Well.
On Tuesday at 5:45 PM. I got on #9288 on Q46 to Springfeld Blvd. I got off at Main St to get the Q44. I was going to ride #112 witch I saw it running Q74. This was my 2 Time on a Nova Suburban. The first one I rode was #9278 on Q17.
Q74 Orion5 #112
Q46 Nova RTS#9288
Q17 Nova RTS#9278
Why don't you come to KG at 8:15-9:40 AM. You could see some suburbans running Q46. I done this doing Spring Recess. I doing this again on May 11. And I see Orion Suburbans on Q74. Q74 would run them at any time.
Just to let you all know, I have requested that my posting handle be changed from "Queens_Village_BO" to my email address, which is of course, "Brooklyn67". Feel free to bypass the new handle as well ;-)
(Cookie setting post)
Thanks for the material you sent
Steve
A bus crashed in Nova scotia Taking the Lives of 4 kids and it Was So Horrible. The Bus was a vanHool T815 And it was from Boston Massachusetts. and one other note the kids were school kids from newton massachusetts.
The bus crash happin in Someplace in New Brunswick,Canada. NOT Nova Scotia.
Near Saint-John, actually, which is the capitol of New Brunswick. I was there a coupla years back. Pretty country. What a shame.
C
Do Saint John have Buses there? If they do. Do you have photos of buses from there?
I seem to recall that they did. It's a decent sized city. But no, I don't have photos . . . I'll try to find a website for their transit system later tonight, tho.
C
Here are a couple sites for Saint John-area transit. It's a small-to-medium-size operation, primarily notable for its use of Canada-only GMC "Classic" buses (for operators who balked at the RTS). They currently use an amalgam of equipment including New Looks, Classics, and RTS.
A short history site at http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~wyatt/alltime/saint-john-nb.html
The Saint John Transit official site at http://www.saintjohntransit.com/
C
Thanks.
The # systerm on thier buses are sort of like AMA in Purto Rico. BUT they don't go by the year. They go by how many seats on that bus. Like Santa Monica "Big Blue Bus" do. Is any of their buses are With Wheelchair Lifts when you went?
[It's a small-to-medium-size operation, primarily notable for its use of Canada-only GMC "Classic" buses (for operators who balked at the RTS)]
As far as I remember, at least until the mid-1990's no Canadian transit operators ordered RTS buses or, for that matter, any transit buses that were manufactured in the U.S. They pretty much stuck with Canadian made buses, which is why there are so many more Classics in Canada than in the U.S. The only exception I can think of off-hand was the Van-Hool articulateds purchased by the southern Montreal suburban authority. Of course, a few years ago the TTC did purchase a batch of 51 Nova RTS buses. I always thought it a little unfair that U.S. transit authorities were buying many buses manufactured in Canada but that Canadian authorities didn't (couldn't?) purchase any buses manufactured in the U.S.
I think NAFTA has made for a more favorable climate as far as bus purchases go; then again, we had Orions -- then built in Canada -- in the '80s, etc. And a lot of these companies are multinational corporations. I'm not sure.
Personally, I think the classic is a pretty attractive bus -- sort of a logical "middle step" between the fishbowl and RTS. But that's me.
C
St. Johns is the capital of Newfoundland. St. John is a city in New Brunswick, a province whose capital is Fredericton.
Well it was ALMOST near nova scotia but it took a wrong turn and crash there you are stranded on a highway.
It seems silly that we are wasting writing time and reader's time as to whether it is in Nova Scotia or a nearby area. You say TOE-MAY-TOE
and I say TOE-MAH-TOE.
As a parent of two adult children who went on school trips, I should urge you not to lose sight of the fact that four children perished and many lives will now feel an emptiness forever.
I can't imagine what it feels like for a parent to have to bury a child but four families now have to bear that burden.
THAT SHOULD BE A LITTLE MORE IMPORTANT THAN QUIBBLING OVER GEOGRAPHY !
Hart Bus
You have to understand that not everybody here has been a parent, I have not for example. For someone who does not have children, this is nothing more than another event where strangers who we have never met, die. It happens every minute, if we were to cry for them, we would never stop crying.
I live about 3 or so miles from where the school is. Oak Hill is just over the West Roxbury-Newton line, and it is a very nice, peaceful section of town. (Route 52 serves Oak Hill, making a loop.)
We as busfans should remember that even though we ride and take pictures of buses, accidents do happen, no matter how trivial or tragic. Let's remember the four young kids and their families.
Reading the article in the Daily News Express,it stated that the driver overturned on the off ramp which makes you wonder on just how fast was that driver exiting the highway.I know in Canada the speed limit is like 110k/m which is like 65mph in the US.
TV reports I've been watching indicate that the off ramp where the accident occured has seen many accidents over the past several years where large trucks have flipped over while trying to negotiate the ramp.
The bus involved is a 2000 Van Hool 45 foot T-815 operated by Travel Today Bus Lines of Boston.
My thoughts and prayers are also with the families that lost their loved ones.
Mark Watson
In Canada, the speed limit is set by provinces like in the United States. The speed limit in NB is 100 km/h according to Rand-McNally.
110 km/h is 66 Stupid units of measure per hour so you are correct in the conversion.
Ok so its 50-55mph in NB then,I know in Ontario and Quebec it is 110km.I guess the mainland use the higher limit than the Atlantic provinces.
I know what you're saying. Those bus drivers who drive most of their hours on the highway drive like they own it. I went to Massachusetts on a bus, and we were doing at least 70, passing other cars. Other times, I've seen buses fly by me in my car. The fact is that, they are very easy to overturn, and the driver doesn't have all that control.
This incident's a shame.... I was wondering the other day, should seatbelts be required on buses specifically for highway use? I know that school buses are required to have them.
Maybe they should,they use them on the airlines and look at the rash of bus accidents on th GSP over the yrs with the buses to Atlantic City.The only buses that has never been reported in any accident is Greyhound or NJTransit 319.
Once I got of the Warrior (PA1773), I was waiting for either the Q53 or Q60 to go home towards Woodside. I saw 1 of the weirdest sites that I'll ever post on this board and couldn't believe my eyes. 719 on the Q11! Yes that's not a misprint! 719 Q11! A 1 D00R ORION. And as of late, I see a lot of 1100s on the Express Lines with the 2 MCI Classics. BTW I got 3007 Q53. I was going to dash across to get 719 on the Q11 but since my Q53 was coming, I had to go home. The rear sign on the Q11 was all green which as usual was malfunctioning.
Now imagine 719 on the Q60- that would be a laugh and a half.
Q11#719Gary
Q53#3007Gary
I was on a Q60 on Saturday. There were still seats avbailable on this bus before it got to Grand Avenue, but after that, CROWDED!. It remained crowded past Woodhaven and past 63rd Drive. The strange thing was that the driver was still piling 'em in there! I said to my mom while at Woodhaven, "They should get articulated buses for this route!"
Drivers at at GBL are notorious for cramming passengers on to the bus.I should when I was in HS,I used to take the Q11 and the drivers were packing the buses(mainly Grumman 870's and GM Fishbowls;they didn;t run the RTS-03'' or New look Flxibles out here too much)to the point of people having too sneak in the back of the bus.
That's like the same situation I had in High School on the school specials that left from a famous named Catholic high school in huguenot on Hylan Blvd. The S78s were so crowded. The busses were mainly the 81-82-83 RTSs although you would occasionally get an 85 Suburban, 91 TMC RTS, or Orion V (93/95-96) Suburban.
Many times, kids would be standing in the rear steps and getting on through the back door. I remeber I rode for about 1/2 mile in the front stepwell.
which bus does this witch drive?
Witch bus you talking about?
Q60 to Jamaica. I was on an RTS in the 600 series.
It was very annoying this afternoon in front of K-Mart on Metropolitan Avenue, where I waited for the Q54; there were EIGHT (8) cars parked in the bus stop, with four more double-parked and one triple-parked. That actually created a violation of the American with Disabilities Act (for which Transit is liable) by preventing the bus from reaching the curb.
Is there any chance that Rudy will let the NYPD issue tickets at bus stops? Or has the "No Standing" aspect of the bus stop regulation lapsed from non-enforcement?
I don't get into N. Y. City all that often, but when I have in recent years, I find little evidence that there is any enforcement of the no parking or standing regulation at bus stops. Of course, the bus drivers on this site would know better than me.
Well they do enforce at most bus stops in Flushing because I see cars getting ticketed all the time.
But they rarely enforce at the N20/21 stop for some reason, so cars and cabs always stand there and drivers have to honk.
In Nassau county there is little if any enforcement of bus stops. It is especially bad at the Great Neck N20/21 and N25 stop on south station plaza, taxis love to stand and park there.
Taxi drivers are some of the most ignorant and dangerous drivers on the road. As a pedestrain I'm especially afraid of those cabs.
That always happens there. The men wait in their cars till the women return from their shopping expedition. And as soon as they see a marked NYPD vehicle come up, they scatter like scared cockroaches! In order for everyone who is illegally parked to get a summons, you would need as many cops as illegally parked cars to suddenly show up to prevent anyone from driving away. The community does not complain to NYPD about this condition at community meetings simply because neighborhood residents generally do not patronise those stores. Why? Because they are not kept clean and are not well stocked. Most residents who live in the area shop on Queens Blvd. or go to the Long Island Malls.
This is true,people who actually shop there and who live in the neighborhood and/or Ridgewood/Glendale/Maspeth & Woodahven actually know how to park on the roof.I should know because I remember that as Robert Hall Village and Bohack(hope I'm not dating myself)
Robert Hall Village; went there when it opened. I hated that esculator/ moving walkway that you could bring your supermarket shopping wagon on where you had to hold it with one foot so it wouldn't slide back down....LOL.
Enforcement is very evident in the Downtown Brooklyn Area----cars are TOWED all the time
those supts get paid between 70,,-100,000 per year and fear of being attacked is not a valid reason for them not to do their job. i loved the post about robert hall were saving on clothes for xmas with gifts from robert hall,more quality and low prices on gifts for one and all. its the biggest collection widest selection. where america goes for quality clothes its robert hall this year. how many remember?
I first remember the ground-level anchor store as a TSS, then Caldor, now K-Mart. The spectacular view from the roof and the ride down the extremely steep conveyor belt were always worthwhile.
Calling it MetroMALL is really a misnomer. K-Mart and Toys-R-Us are on ground level fronting on Metro Avenue, and accessed from the roof by the conveyor. The lower level can only be reached by driving down a steep ramp (or walking down an extremely narrow sidewalk) from street level where Levitz, the Pergament on death row, and the long-deceased Waldbaum's are/were- up against the LIRR's Montauk branch.
It's very difficult and inconvenient to combine K-Mart and Toys with the establishments downstairs.
Irregardless, the stores are extremely popular, as this is the only large retail center in the city with both free parking AND subway access; the 'M' terminal is right next to the front entrance. On any weekend, huge numbers of people spill out of the station to shop- and re-enter the trains loaded down with packages. Despite the 'M's truncaton to shuttle on weekend, this shopping center is easy for people without cars from eastern Brooklyn.
What'll take over if and when K-Mart goes under? Target? Kohls?
They also re-enter the station with the shopping carts from K-Mart.As a matter of fact, one Sunday last year, I was pulling into Bwy-Myrtle station. There was a shopping cart on the roadbed from one of the establishments(Pergament,Toys-R-Us,Caldor?). Luckliy, the wagon wasn't too close to the third rail so I was able to pick it up and place it on the platform with a little help from a passenger on the platform.
Don't tell me that K-Mart's pulling out already!!! I really don't get the chance to get back to Middle Village that much since I joined the military, but do remember TSS and the Metro Mall especially since I used to work in the worst Burger King in Queens!!!
I thought that honor went to the one on Atlantic & Woodhaven.
At my post (146St-Lenox Av.) I have a very serious problem with illegal parkers at the 146 St. bus stop. I usually can get the offenders out by tricking them into thinking I'm writing a parking ticket with my tally book or by letting them hear me pretending to call a tow truck into my radio. As a last resort I will call the 32 precinct for a officer to come write a summons, but rarely do they come. Road Superintendents can write summonses but rarely do fearing getting attacked.
50% of the time the offenders are bus operators or their family/friends coming to pick them up and then I can try to reason with them not to park and move their cars. The law however says that you may park in the bus stop briefly but when a bus arrives then you must move your vehicle.
If authorities wanted to they can really carck down on illegal parkers in bus stops and bus lanes, but like the Queens Blvd. crackdown businesses start to whine about losing business and then the politicians enter the picture.
And you know the rest of the story.
[...businesses start to whine about losing business and then the politicians enter the picture.]
1. That's part of why DOT changed its bus stop spacing guideline from 500 feet (2 blocks) to 750 feet (3 blocks) - political pressure to reduce the number of parking spaces lost to bus stops.
2. Why do politicians care more about motorists from outside their districts than about their own 80-year-old constituents who can't get on or off the bus?
3. As I noted in my earlier post, parking in the bus stop creates a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act, for which NYCT (or whoever provides the bus service) is FULLY liable.
Let me tell you something; it is not in New York that there is a lack of bus stop enforcement, it is prevalent in Philly as well, in fact, the meter maid was issuing tickets to those who are parked in front of expired meters, yet when a car is parked in front of a bus stop (and a fire plug), he/she does nothing (how's that for logic). I hate to say this, but in a parallel universe, those cars are ticketed now (LOL).
To restate and expand on one point from my original post:
One could argue (and I would, if I were ticketed at a bus stop) that the "No Standing" aspect of the bus stop regulation has actually LAPSED due to non-enforcement: the City has gone so long WITHOUT enforcing bus stops that it has actually LOST the right to enforce bus stops. It's an extension of "adverse possession" in which the City has, in effect (and thus in fact), granted a permanent easement at all bus stops.
Are there any legal experts out there who can offer some thoughts on this?
I don't think the adverse possession argument works, as the period of time usually runs pretty long (for example, it is 20 years in Mass.). That would mean you'd have to prove the City has not enforced the "no standing" aspect of the bus stop regulation for the past 20 years. Even without bringing adverse possession into the mix, I suspect it would be nearly impossible to prove that the City never enforces that regulation. Also, the fact that an enforcement agency is quite lax in enforcing a particular law does not usually work as a defense if you are accused of breaking that law.
It was very annoying this afternoon in front of K-Mart on Metropolitan Avenue, where I waited for the Q54; there were EIGHT (8) cars parked in the bus stop, with four more double-parked and one triple-parked. That actually created a violation of the American with Disabilities Act (for which Transit is liable) by preventing the bus from reaching the curb.
Please explain what you mean when you say that Transit is liable? Do you mean to say that if a bus stop is blocked illegally, the TA is in violation of the ADA? If so, please post the link where I can read that.
I don't know how the TA could be held in violation, when:
1- They provide a clear unobstructed bus stop.
2- They are not an enforcement agency.
3- Bus stops are not the responsibility of the MTA/NYCTA, but are that of the DOT.
By your reasoning, the NYPD, NYSDOT and NYCDOT would also be held in violation, no?
DOT should do something because in additiom to the Q54,the Q38 & Q67 also stop at this stop and both the the 38 and 67 are DOT contracted rts.
Just a couple of weeks ago, I parked in front of the Utica IRT station. I knew the area was a No Standing area to try to keep the dollar vans from stopping there. I went down to the tower to look for my job assignment for the next day. I walk upstairs and my car was already hooked up to a tow truck. Next thing I know, Im down at Bklyn Navy Yard paying to get my car out. I know it is enforced in some areas.
B14#8674Mike
B17#9064Mike
B46#3965MikeLimited
The police enforce it when they see fit.
There's a stop right in under my window- the presence of a shelter removes all doubt. People park in it overnight all the time. I used to warn anyone I saw parking in it. They would respond, "It's night time; the buses aren't running." Rarely would they find a ticket in the morning, but if they did, their loud cursing would wake me up. Well, I TRIED to warn them.
Across the street, there's another stop without a shelter, and frequently without signs. Whether they fall off on their own or are deliberately removed is open to conjecture, but in any event the police regularly have a feeding frenzy off this one- lack of signs is apparently no defense.
[The police onforce it when they see fit.]
That's the problem - they never seem to see fit.
-----
[They would respond, "It's night time; the buses aren't running."]
As you've tried (unsuccessfully) to tell these fools, the regulation applies 24/7 unless otherwise noted, regardless of the span of the route in question.
-----
[...lack of signs is no defense.]
As "Gridlock" Sam Schwartz is fond of pointing out with respect to any parking regulation: if one sign is missing, the space in question is governed by the next sign (even if it's all the way at the other end of the block).
[The police enforce it when they see fit.]
That's the problem - they never seem to see fit.
-----
[They would respond, "It's night time; the buses aren't running."]
As you've tried (unsuccessfully) to tell these fools, the regulation applies 24/7 unless otherwise noted on the sign, regardless of the span of the route in question. PLUS, about 50% of NYCT's routes DO run all night.
-----
[...lack of signs is no defense.]
As "Gridlock" Sam Schwartz is fond of pointing out with respect to any parking regulation: if one sign is missing, the space in question is governed by the next sign (even if it's all the way at the other end of the block).
Rode this bus a few days ago and noticed an oddity. All the new Orions have windows that open at the top, but the window on the right near the back had a regular sliding window like the older buses.
I guess the windows are interchangable. I guess the original window got damaged and they needed a spare.
I understand from the subtalk side that the buses at 207th shop have been moved out. Where did they send this work to?
The new CMF in the Bronx on Zerega Ave.
Thanks Bill for the info. By the way did they close East NY CMF?
The CMF at ENY is alive and well. In recent years, bus maintance has become much more meticulous. The buses are getting a lot more mileage per year because of increasing ridership and weekend subway service disruptions in which buses are substituted for trains. The big project right now is engine replacement on the 1990 & 1993 RTS and the 1993 Orions. So they need both CMF's to support this work.
I went to the WMATA Roadeo today. Nothing really to write home about, then again, being a veteran of several SEPTA Roadeos, I kinda expected more from WMATA. The only vehicles on display were an Orion VI (2027), an RTS (9112, now OmniRide), a fishbowl (1453?), an Old Look (ex-Baltimore 1912 in Metrobus colors), and an Orion II (3722). Considering the variety of the Metrobus fleet, this was a rather small display fleet. Most of the buses used on the course today were the 42xx series Orions.
One interesting note from Landover. I saw Orion V 4279 return to the garage with this destination sign: "4279: NOT IN SERVICE"
Now I know a lot of the 39xx, 42xx, 43xx, and 44xx Orions often display the route number and "Not In Service," but I had never seen a bus with it's number followed by "Not In Service." The rear sign even read "4279."
Anyway, the return trip back to Philadelphia was a nightmare at best. After spending a little time at Landover, I went to New Carrollton Metro to catch the R12 to Greenbelt. The bus left about 5 minutes late and was running about 8-9 minutes at some points, but still managed to make it to Greenbelt in time for me to catch my connecting bus to Laurel.
I then caught the 2:15pm Connect-a-Ride H bus to Laurel Mall, using a Champion cutaway on an International chasis. Really tacky. The 3:00pm from Laurel to Cromwell LRT was the same model bus. The bus to Cromwell ran about 10 minutes late. Here's where the trip gets worse...
The Light Rail was running a bus bridge between Camden Yards and North Av stations. I was trying to get to Penn Station, and the LRT motorman told me to get off the bus at North Av. Anyway, it took about 10 minutes from the time the trolley from Cromwell arrived for the bus to actually leave. When we got to North Avenue, I was told that I should have gotten off at Mount Royal instead. As a result, I missed the 4:42pm train back to Philadelphia, and had to wait for the 6:22pm train. The thing that really upset me was that there were no notices posted at Cromwell station. Even worse, the information about getting to Penn Station was wrong. I expect this crap from SEPTA, but not from the MTA.
In any case, the 6:22pm left on time from Baltimore and arrived on time in Philadelphia. That's where disaster #2 comes in...
There was heavy traffic on Market St due to people leaving Franklin Field after the Penn Relays. The first bus that showed up, Midvale 7212 - an artic, no less - was literally SRO. I was barely able to get on the bus. This bus didn't arrive until 1 minute before my scheduled 104 departure back to West Chester.
Just another day in SEPTA country...
Well, when is the international competition in Philly? and who won Metro's roadeo?
A Neoplan Articulated on 104?? I guess when it comes to the 100-110 Series routes. I guess they put some ODD buses on those routes. And 104 is not run by Midvale. Or their was a depot swamp going on. And heres something FUNNY!! How ahout a FORD Cutaway on C?? That will be LOL!!
104 Neoplan AN460#7212
C FORD Cutaway #2150
No, he means that an articulated was running on Market ST and it came late, causing him to miss his 104 bus.
Almost. The artic that was running El shuttle service arrived at 69 St about a minute before the 104 left. I barely made the 8:07pm trip.
BTW, I didn't stay for the end of the Roadeo. I'm sure WMATA will post something about it at their web site. And, the international Roadeo will be the last weekend in September, probably at Vet Stadium.
Today, while waiting for the Q32 or M4 to go to Penn Station at 41st and 5th Avenue, I saw 3895 in service on the M2 from Manhattanville Depot.
Something interesting about 3895 now. It DID NOT have its SUBURBAN SEATS, but rather it had hard seats. I know that since the GMC suburbans are really no longer needed for EXPRESS service that they are used on local routes. And if eventually it is to be retired, why bother replacing the seats?
"...Today, while waiting for the Q32 or M4 to go to Penn Station at 41st and 5th Avenue, I saw 3895 in service on the M2 from Manhattanville Depot.
Something interesting about 3895 now. It DID NOT have its SUBURBAN SEATS, but rather it had hard seats. I know that since the GMC suburbans are really no longer needed for EXPRESS service that they are used on local routes. And if eventually it is to be retired, why bother replacing the seats? ..."
Any Information concerning this post?
Probably because the soft-seats were vandalized to the point where they became a hazard. The TA cannot provide a bus with stuffing and coils protruding from seats. I'd imagine the seats were taken from a previously scrapped bus.
I took the Q32 from Penn Station to Grand Central and I had Orion 119. I know that Casey Stengel is short busses so they run on local routes when needed.
It still looks the same and feels the same when it was a SI EXPRESS. It has not been repowered yet though.
Also, in the right rear by the exit door, the bench seats were fine except for 1 seat. The middle seat had the soft seat of the 81,82,85 RTS Suburbans in it. I guess the seat was damaged. But why not fix it rather than put that blue seat there. It was a total standout from the rest of the grey cloth interior.
Are you sure that wasn't 116 cause I had her on the Q12 and she had the same exact thing with the seating by the rear door.
Yes I'm sure. The Orion that left right before that one was 138. It was 119. It had the original stick on labels above the stop requested sign.
Also, this bus's automatic rear door is malfunctioned. You press the tape and it doesn't open at first. I pushed the door manually to exit. After it swings back to closed, then the automatic feature kicks in and it opens by itself.
2 Other Orion5 Suburbans that I know of have those BLUE seats. #138 and #616. I rode broth of them. #138 on Q74 and #616 on Q46. I think the reason why is that when it was in SI. The seats are CUT Open. And The SI Deopts down there are TOO CHEAP to repair the seats. They rater replace them instead.
Q74 Orion5 #138
Q46 Orion5 #616
we are not too cheap because we all work for the same authority but rather the authority did not have the correct replacement for which you can blame orion bus industries. wed love to have our orions back for local service.
what about with the local orions at Yukon? They have #6327-#6349 and the scratches on the windows look HORRIBLE compared to Castleton buses which look in better shape. With Yukon not running hawks on their locals route between 1a-5a, why dont they replace the windoes on the Orion buses? Dont they have the plastic thing they can remove?
I went to Belmont Park this Evening to go to the Fair there. And I was thinking that the Jetaway Buses are going to run. And I was going to see LIRR Trains there. I WAS WRONG!! Not one Jetaway bus was running and No LIRR in the station near byI was thinking that the Jet away buses only runs doing Events in Belmont Park. Like the Fair that was going on there. Can someone tell me a Reason why the Jetaway Buses don't run doing the Fair in Belmont Park?
They only run when the horses are racing and tons of $$$ are coming into Belmont Park.
and when nyra pays them.
Any reason why they only run on those days? And did they ever run at least one time doing the Fair?
I go to the fair every year at Belmont Park, and by the way, Orion135,I was there the same night you were also, on Sunday. I have never seen the Jetaway buses running at the fairs. I don't even think Belmont Park has much to do with the fair period. When they are done, they simply pack up and move the fair to another location for awhile. I'm pretty sure this is the same fair that also set's up shop in the parking lot of Shea stadium in the summer.
BIG AL
You could have seen me in the Fair there. I was with my friend Jordan Walker and his sister Tyra Walker.
I was White,with Black hair,A little taller then my friend Jordan,I was wearing a BULE Jacket with lines on them with the Jacket open. I might have seen you someplace. BUT I don't know how did you look like that night. BTW. My friend Jordan Walker's mom told me that the fair that's in Belmont Park will move to Aqueduct Racetrack for the Fair in July. I forgot to ask them if they saw any buses when they was there the last time. That's 3 Weeks ago.
Hey wait a minute. I remember you now. Your the kid who threw-up all over me on the bob sled ride! Thanks a lot pal. I'll be e-mailing you my dry cleaning bills.
BIG AL
I did not went on that Bob sled ride. I pass by there and I did not Threw up on you. It could be my friend Jordan Walker might made that nose. He was fakeing it!! Maybe it made you spell that drink on to what you was wearing.
The shirt that I was wearing under the Jacket is BLUE.
On Transitalk, there is a series of photos showing 6910 in various places on Staten Island. The roll sign has all the routes from the time since 6910 was an Express Bus.
Who owns this bus?
Will it be around more often?
Did people think that the bus was actually in service and try to board it?
Does it have a working farebox and if so what type?
This bus would be good for a display at Busfest.
And what day this year is Busfest NYC?
Those pics (Taken by me) were done last sunday on a bus excursion thrown by Central Jersey Bus of Piscataway, NJ.
The trip was basically taking the bus over the same routes it ran while in SI service. Yes people did try to flag us down during the trip, was kidna funny and we got wierd looks for bus passing in the other direction.
6910 is owned by Chet Fermeneck of Central Jersey Bus, he has a whole bunch of vintage GMC buses. Usually when the Metropolitan NY Bus Association needs a bus, they go to them.
This bus WILL NOT return to regular passenger service. Yes this bus did have a farebox in it, it was the one that had like the big level type handle to dump the change.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
What type of fare boxes do the NYCTA, Nassau County, and private lines use? Who's the vendor?
Frank D
Cubic Western Data is the Contractor for the MetroCard Style Fareboxes used on MTA NYC Bus, MTA LI Bus and NYC DOT Private Carriers.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
We got a bunch of the old MSBA fareboxes up here on our buses in Utica, NY. The boxes still has the MSBA plate on the bottom of them.
-B61 Leonard
Where do fare boxes come from?
The Farebox Fairy, who lives Farebox Claus in the South Pole.
That's a good one Pig. I've just busted a few stitches laughing.
Sorry, with Farebox Claus and it's the Fairbox Farey!
LI Bus/MSBA former farebox was a GFI ... well actually it pre-dated GFI, so it was a Keene. The City, incl. the nycDOT "privates" had a more recent GFI model ... ours took bills & some had a swipe card slot on top. CT Transit, I think, still uses this model.
Mr t__:^)
GFI? What is that?
General Farebox Int'l or something like that, they're in Elk Grove, ILL & are a major farebox mfg in the US. Cubic has been doing a better sales job of late and replaced them in a number of cities.
Their newest box is the "Odyssey Revenue Center" and does all the same stuff that the Cubic one does.
Mr t__:^)
That latter description sounds like a GFI Centsabill farebox. Those are far and away the most common units in the country, used by SEPTA, WMATA, CTA, DDOT, GCRTA, PATransit and Seattle Metro just to name a few.
The basic unit has a bill acceptor on the right side (passenger facing) and a ramped coin slot to the left, and as an option, a swipe card reader is available just below the coin slot. The Centsabill is probably one of the oldest electronic farebox designs around, and it predates the use of smartcards or magnetic strip transfers. For that reason, there is a supplemental unit available to attatch to the Centsabill to process magentic strip transfers and the like. The swipe card reader available with the main unit is read-only, I believe, so it is just used to swipe fixed-time unlimited ride passes.
GFI Genfare is the manufacturer. They are based in Elk Grove Village, Illinois (near O'Hare Airport) and are owned by SPX Corporation of Dearborn, Michigan.
GFI also now produces the Odyssey farebox, which is a very nice looking unit capable of handling something like nine different types of fare media.
"The basic unit has a bill acceptor on the right side (passenger facing) and a ramped coin slot to the left, and as an option, a swipe card reader is available just below the coin slot"
I guess MTA NYC Transit could use those fareboxes instead. Nowadays. Passengers with no change that have 1 Dollar Bills have to ask the Passengers for Change of $1.00. MTA know's better then that.
I know what you mean. When I first heard that they accept no paper money, I couldn't believe that a transit authority would be so stupid to do that.
Oh yes. MTA is so Stupid. LLE and NYBS is still takeing Paper Money.Just only if MTA would just take $1.00 Coins.
The Susan B. Anthony and the newer Gold Dollars do work in the fareboxes that the NYC MTA currently has that has the Metrocard in it. I have used them many times before. Even the old fareboxes accepted them.
Chicago used a add on box for their fare cards, some of us call it a shoe box.
Mr t__:^)
Memphis uses this model. MARTA also uses this model (Last time I was there) with the add on swipe unit for their Transcard.