Saw this bus operating S/B on Nostrand crossing over De Kalb at about 910AM yesterday. It is assigned to FLA. Interesting thing about it was that the back was shrink-wrapped. I was W/B on De Kalb, stopped at the light and couldn't get a good look at the product.
Why is the bus wrapped? As I have posted earlier, if the MTA allowed more buses to be wrapped, it would be a good source of revenue to try and hold down fare increases.
bus came from 126 st probably. nyct only wraps some buses in manhattan.
this will be the new mta chairman fellow posters. he takes the chair 3/1/01. lets hope he can stay awake at mta board meetings. i saw him on ny1 yesterday. at a board meeting as vice chair he looked like he was falling asleep or worse. he used to publish the ny post. as usual he knows nothing abou transit being a limo rider most of his life. larry reuter may have to worry. it seems when an mta chairman goes so does the nyct president.
I apologize if this has been answered already. Does anyone know if Quill will put artics on the M42 when the new order comes in?
The slated routes for Quill once the next batch of New Flyer D60HF Galaxy Articulateds come in are:
M42 & M102
Hope this information helps you!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
It does; thanks!
That Means the 1997 D60 1000's seres will stay at Quill when the new D60 5500's seres comes in instead of going to anouther Depot.
Well the changes just keep happening at 126. When I arrived at work yesterday, I discovered that all of our 4500's (1986 RTS) had been shipped to Hudson Pier. It seems as if we are receiving 8200's (1991 RTS) in return. As I left work last night, I discovered that all of our 4800's (1988 RTS) except for five, had been shipped to MTV. In return we are receiving 8100's (1991 RTS) According to the yard dispatcher on duty, the five remaining 4880's will ship out soon.
I wonder if this is a prelude to the arrival of the articulateds? I was told that before receiving the artics that a major shift in buses would take place. This is done so that the average age of the fleet remains about equal in all depots. (It seems that Jamaica and QV are the exception.) My guess is, and I'm only speculating, that when the artics arrive we will probably lose all our 9000's (1996 RTS) and 5000's (1998 RTS). This would leave us with 7500's, 8100's, 8200's, 8400's(1993 RTS) and the artics. Not a too terrible fleet. We'll see what transpires.
Where The 5000's And 9000's Buses Will Go?
I Think I Want 126St Depot To Send the 5000's And 9000's to CS. Because CS have only 1 RTS Right now and CS could use more RTS. Anyway CS Runs More Orions right now. but CS Used To Run Alot of RTS'S
and that's a good Idea to Move 5000's And 9000's To CS.
The transfer of 126's 5000's and 9000's is purely speculation on my part and may not ever happen. I chose those particular two series for transfer because they are the newest buses in the 126 fleet. The TA's policy is to transfer buses in a manner that will ensure that each depot has an even mix of old and new buses. If and when the articulateds begin arriving at 126, 71 of them are supposed to be brand new 2001 models with an alleged additional 15 1998 models being transfered in from other depots to join the two 2000 model buses currently in service. This would mean a total of 88 new or nearly new buses being added to the 126 fleet. Since 126's current facilities can only accomodate 180 or so buses, this would require that an equal or similar amount of RTS's be transfered out of 126 to make room for the 88 or so articulateds. Since 126 has a total of 84 5000 and 9000 series buses, I feel they would be the most likely candidates for transfer. This transfer would adhere to the TA's policy of keeping the fleet age even and allow 126 space to accomodate the articulateds.
This whole matter may be a moot point if it is decided not to make 126 an articulated depot. In reading the updated NYCTA depot roster on TransiTalk I noticed that bus # 5509 has been delivered and is in service at Kingsbridge Depot. This would mean that the entire order of 260 2000 D60 articulateds is complete. Now it is just a question of when and if New Flyer will begin building the 140 bus option.
With the 4500s going to Hudson Pier, they are probably going to ship out the 4100s. And I don't have to tell you guys what 2 depots will probably wind up getting those buses.
BIG AL
Ooooh, oooh, I know! They're going to Castleton and Yukon. Yep they are 'cause Staten Island ALWAYS gets the woist buses and Queens always gets the best yep uh huh uh huh.
Actually, BIGAL, Hudson's 4100s and 3928 wound up in MJ Quill. Remember, if it wasn't in a scrap or storage yard, it cannot be sent to JAM or QV.
Mark
I'm beginning to think that D.O.B. thinks JAM (and possibly QV) are the Queens division(s) of Nimco. The good part is... it should be an indication to the suits in D.O.B. that JAM Maintenance is top notch.
Wayne
Why MTA Sends Scrap Buses To JAM And QV And go back in to service? Why? To Me. MTA Don't know what these people doing with scrap buses and putting them back in service. But Why? Are these people Stupid or what?
On my way back from the TA's Woodside Elect. O/H shop I saw a packed Triboro #649 crossing Astoria Blvd. on the Q72. She's a old GMC RTS that looked in pritty good shape, while not quite a clean as the QSC fleet (employee pats himself on the back) she seemed to be rolling along just fine thank you.
Sorry John, I was on the look out for a bus ready to fall apart, but didn't see any. Have also seen a number of LI Bus coaches, all seemed to be doing just fine.
BTW, there was an item in the past two issues of a transportation elect. newsletter that I get that says Governor Pataki put enough extra money in his budget to make up for what the Nassau County Exec. is taking away from LI Bus this year. That's good news.
Mr t__:^)
I always thought Triboro had a fantastic operation. Those Triboro bashers should be ashamed of themselves!
There buses look like !@#$. No offense, i used to love Triboro, and spend my weekends when i was younger riding the Q53. However, it seems that while Queens Surface and Green have gotten newer buses for their local runs, Triboro is still running old buses. They should have gotten the 50 that Green did (or at least split them).
Is Triboro EVER getting new buses, or is DOT leaving them out in the cold?
Triboro is run by a family, father and two sons. I've met them a couple of times & they seem to care about the service they provide, so I too don't fully understand all the bad reports.
Mr t__:^)
Triboro Should stop useing the GM RTS because It feels like the bus comming apart or something? I Like the Orion5's Better Because It more useful then the junky GM RTS That Triboro have's
The best GM RTS Out of the 4 Bus companys In NYC Is The MTA.
Because MTA Treat Ther GM RTS Better then Triboro.
I See Some MTA GM RTS'S Look's good and better than Triboro's GM RTS'S. Like 3928 Is A Good example Of how the way the MTA treat ther buses. I Like All 1984-1985 GM RTS'S That The MTA Have's.
I Think Triboro Need some TLC From The MTA Interms To Get Better.
The problem relates to nycDOT wanting to buy more CNG's but the "Cooper" group not having anywhere to put or fuel them, plus the issue of WHO pays for the new CNG facility. These "operators" only got a one year extension to their franchise, so they aren't too motivated to make a big capital investment on "their" property.
BTW, QSC & Command operate out of nycDOT depots.
Also you won't see the TA and DOT swap fleets ... you will see nycDOT "me too" on a new purchase order though, e.g. the "privates" just got some new fareboxes that were "delivered" to the TA at Woodside.
Confused yet ?
Mr t__:^)
Hi.
I never been on a Suffolk Transit Bus Before.
I Know Some Of The Routes That Suffolk Transit Runs.
I Know Suffolk Transit Runs Orion5's And Gillig Phantom's.
But I want to know what other buses Suffolk Transit Runs Because I Going To Take Suffolk Transit One Day.
Orion 5: AFAIK Orion's and Gilligs are all that the county purchased and has Private Operators use. HART in Huntington still uses 3 Orion 1's.
Doesn't Suffolk have some 30 ft. Flxs also?
Yes they do have 30ft Flxs!
Hi.
I never been on a Suffolk Transit Bus Before.
I Know Some Of The Routes That Suffolk Transit Runs.
I Know Suffolk Transit Runs Orion5's And Gillig Phantom's.
But I want to know what other buses Suffolk Transit Runs Because I Going To Take Suffolk Transit One Day.
And I Want To Know What model of the bus runs on the S1?
Ok.
The S-1 uses Gillig's. To be sure, call EBT, Inc. a/k/a Educational Bus Service on Sunrise Highway, Amityville and perhaps a dispatcher can give you better info as well as a schedule.
Witch Gillig Are in use on the S1?
35 Foot Or 40 Foot Gillig Phantom?
Also Do Suffolk Transit Use Low Floor Buses?
Do They Or Do They Not?
The Gilligs are 30ft.
The new Orions are 35ft. I dont believe there are any low floor or
40 footers in the fleet. The Gilligs have 6V92TA and Orions have DD Series 50 engines. They accelerate much faster then that of NYCTA and have a governed speed of around 70 since there are route that have long distence between stops. I would advice you try to take the S62 to Riverhead. A 1.5 hour trip. The fare is 1.50 and they do not take Metrocards. Dollar bills are accepted. The schedule have 1 hour headaways for most lines so time you visit accordingly.
Suffolk Transit does not have any low floors. The newest buses in the fleet the 30 ft Orions with the new livery (the 9900's) are all high floors. Don't have any access to future plans. Only know what I see on the road when I see it.
I believe the Orion V's in the 9900 series are 35 foot buses, not 30 footers.
I had gotten off the Q30 on my way to school yesterday. On my way to 58th avenue, I saw RTS 4448 on the Q27. I thought it was a QV bus deadheading or something. But sure enough it had the stengel logo on it, it was carrying people and it displayed "Queens Vill" ,"Jamaica Av". I had discussed this with a B/O on the Q30. Both he and I found this unusual because Stengel has 100% Orion. That sight yesterday reminded me when I got lost in the 6th grade. I saw an Orion for the first time and I decided to take it, although its sign said Flushing, Main st station. I needed to go to Springfield and Hillside. I ended up at Main street. Back then I never knew about Flushing. Years later, now that I am 18 years old, After skool I go to Flushing once a week to at least go Railfanning on the 7, then take the E at 74th and go back to Jamaica.
4448 is CS's sole RTS; I caught it on the Q44 a few weeks ago (see post) and was just as surprised to see it as you were. Good to know it's still out there.
Q27#4448Mike
it was on the 74 yesterday 1/31
WMATA has long been one of my favorite transit systems, especially the oft-underrated Metrobus system. I have poured hundreds of hours into browsing their timetables and riding their buses every chance I get (which is a priviledge considering I live 800 miles from DC).
Part of the intrigue of Metrobus to me was the vast and confusing array of number that appeared everywhere, the route numbers and the fleet numbers.
I have committed many of the major bus routes to memory, and after about five years, I cracked the fleet numbering pattern (I posted my findings here a few months ago.) However, with the fleet numbers, I always had one major bone to pick: They started at xx01 rather than xx00. So their 1995 Flxibles, for instance, are 4001-4104 rather than 4000-4103. This REALLY bothered me.
Trevor Logan just posted a whole series of excellent Metrobus pictures to Transitalk, and one of the Orions he has labeled as #4200. Is that really a bus? I always thought that the first one was #4201. I have even seen publicity pictures depicting #4201 as 'the first new Metrobus' back when that order was starting to roll in in 1998.
Also, numerous sources have told me that the first Metrobus Orion VI is #2000, not #2001. Is this true? Has WMATA gone back and reassigned buses to the xx00 number position?
Any info on this would be appreciated, and I welcome any banter on Metrobus.
Thanks,
Neil
¡Qué viva el subjuntivo!
I haven't seen Orion VI #2000 yet, but I do see several their Orion II's on my way to/from work and I believe #3701 is the first one.
Wayne
We had a 1999 Orion 30' bus here in Roanoke, VA for testing that was on loan from WMATA; its number was 3900. I believe it was a Ride-On bus; that may explain the zero-root. Hope this helps!
-Fred Donaher
It probably was WMATA. IIRC, Ride-On buses are presently numbered in the 5000s and up. Plus, 3900 fits in with the WMATA numbering system, which is completely separate from the Ride-On system.
Ride-On doesn't operate any 30ft Orion Vs at all. The Orions they have are 30ft Orion Is (1985, 1991, and 1992), 35ft Orion Vs (1995?) the Orion VIs that are 40ft I think, and then the 40ft Orion Vs (1999, 2000). The WMATA, on the other hand, has 30ft Orion buses that are from that year, so I guess that the WMATA has now gone zero-root. Also, Ride-On bus numbers have the year in smaller lettering in front of the number. For example, a 1997 Gillig would be 978663 (I don't know if that number actually exists, just a random example. The "97" would be smaller.
It doesn't. The highest numbered 1997 Gillig is 975409 (the Anniversary Bus).
That six-number setup is weird; anything over four or five is just too much! I'll bet it looks funny on the buses as well. Yeah, it looks like that 3900 is a regular WMATA....first Orion I ever rode on. Not bad. I like those. In fact, the driver said it reminded her of driving our old Flxible New Looks, claiming that it felt like "a nice, HEAVY bus". From the passenger's perspective, it reminded me of the WMATA Flx Metros, especially the angled sides (not flat like Gilligs and such) and the loads of woodgrain paneling on the inside.
Well, the only bus that I know of that has flat sides other than blue birds are Gilligs. I think every other transit bus has some sort of angled or rounded sides. Plus, with the wooden interior, you know that it is a WMATA bus. I think all of them have it now, including the NABIs and Orion IIs. Anyway, was your TA thinking about getting Orions? Also, the numbers seem to fit on the Ride-On buses. I never really noticed the difference until I looked closely (don't forget, of course, that I rarely ride Ride-On buses nowadays).
Our TA had thought about getting them, but it looks like more than likely they will be going with more Gilligs to replace their older ones. Also, they will be ordering two 30' Thomas SLF (Super Low Floor) 200s (basically Americanized Dennis Darts) for their new Downtown Express runs, much to the chagrin of their drivers, who did not like their ride and handling. If anyone knows of other TAs using the Thomas SLF 200s, let me know and how they are holding up so far.
Fred
I had heard that Santa Monica, CA was getting 5 SLF200 buses.
I saw Orion VI 2000 on the Memorial Bridge back in December on the 13.
Yes. The lowest numbered Orion VI is 2000.
Just caught this on the news. About 9:30pm, an 80 year old man was hit by GBL bus 5546 at Queens Blvd and Union Trnpke. Man is in very serious condition at the hospital. No summonses were issued to the bus operator as he had the green light, all though I'm sure his management will be climbing all over his butt if they are anything like NYCT.
BIG AL
I think the city should putting pedestrian footbridges over certain intersections like they have in Las Vegas on the Strip.This getting exteremely ugly with Queens Blvd. now.
I think the city should start installing pedestrian footbridges over certain intersections like they have in Las Vegas on the Strip.This getting exteremely ugly with Queens Blvd. now.
How about encouraging use of the subway crossunders (where they exist). I know there are safety problems related to the potential of thefts and assaults, but it doesn't seem to be any safer at street level.
See similar thread on SubTalk.
In the daily news today it was described in the story something like ..."Mr so and so was MOWED down by the bus as it made a right turn onto the boulevard of death......"
Is it me or does 'mowed' sound a little harsh for a bus going 5 mph????
The Express edition has that corrected to read "crushed."
I believe that the man that got hit passed away at Jamaica Hospital. Can anybody clarify this?
Queens Blvd has gotten too ugly to be on. Everything from fences to rumble strips have been placed on QB. But don't forget it's also the people's fault for jaywalking across the street. The drivers are at fault for going too fast. They should build tunnels underneath QB for the pedestrians to cross. That's how the blind get across QB at Union Tpke. They go into the subway and come up on the other side. I heard that's what's done in France. The only way to get across is going down below. QB should think about that from 50 St-Kew Gardens Rd. At Queens Center Mall this can NOT be done.
Q10#1175Gary
I heard the man died also, shortly after arrving at the hospital. My condolences to his famaily. Other examples of under ground tunnels I can think of are at Jones Beach, where pedestrians walk through to get from their cars, under Loop Parkway, over to the beach area.
BIG AL
As I said on Subtalk, this kind of accident, involving all types of vehicles, occurs all over the city, every day. Mostly it happens with vehicles that have limited visibility, like buses and trucks. Both the vehicle and the pedestrian have the green light. Vehicle driver fails to observe pedestrian for whatever reason, and thus fails to yeild. End result?
Splat.
This has NOTHING to do with the Queens Blvd issues.
-Hank
>>>At Queens Center Mall this can NOT be done.<<<
Technically you can though you have to cross 59 St in order to cross QB via the subway. Your argument is valid about the underground passageways, but don't you think that there would be some logistics problems with the subway being so close to the surface of QB?
A plan to run a luxury bus for business executives from Morris County to NYC was shot down as being a bad idea. Click here for story in Friday's Star-Ledger.
Hello.
When Quill will start doing the M14 Route? And will D60HF'S Will Run The M14 Too? When Quill Will start takeing over the M14 Route?
Who Knows?
that would not happen until 100th street opens. at that time, some routes from Quill will move to 100th street-sending ALL routes from Hudson to Quill and close Hudson. But that isnt going to happen until 2002 or 2003 at the earliest.
Most of you know more about the bus I drive than I do. What you probably don't know are the rules, regulations, and guidelines we follow and administer as NYCTA / MaBSTOA Bus Operators. I thought it might be fun to post a question to the board every now and again to both inform us and have a little fun with the replies.
The first question I will ask is one I posted at a newsgroup last year. It received a lengthy response thread but not one person knew the correct answer. Keep in mind, that these will NOT be "trick questions" per-sé, but they will be questions that require some thought, according to the rules and regulations of the NYCTA.
Question #1:
When is a New York City Transit bus filled to capacity?
Note: This applies only to NYCTA and MaBSTOA buses, as I don't know the rules for other bus companies. Finally, if you're a DOB employee, kindly let the forum answer before you reply. (This means YOU Big Al LOL!! But Im curious.... email me with your answer ok?)
The winner of this challenge is the non-employee who posts the correct answer to this question first. I have a QV bus decal to give away as the prize. Not much of a prize, I know, but ya'll took me for busmarks, bus guides, Insider Guides, Bus Owner manuals (RTS and Orion), and maps long ago!
Maybe another employee would post the next question and so on?
Let's have some fun!
QV :-)
I like your idea very much & probally can come up with a question or two.
We also might offer an all expense paid round trip to Jamaica .... Queens that is ... or Nassau ... the County ... or a 50 cent tour of a depot ? But I'll bet some out there would prefer the one that you offered, as to some it is a highly sought after item.
Regarding your question ... it has two answers not one ... that's the only hint that I'll mention. Good luck to all the non-employees out there. I think you should put a time limit on it or some folks will cheet & stand on the corner for hours asking every driver the answer & writing down what it says on the side of the entrance of every bus they see. Not that that will help them with the correct answer.
Mr t__:^)
Two answers?? I'll go with the obvious: when no additional passengers can fit behind the white line, and no passengers block the driver's view out the most forward right side window. I seem to remember a driver in training a few months ago, and the supervisor on the bus wouldn't permit him to go until his line of sight to that window was clear.
One last hint from me ... the rule for the diesel & CNG are different.
Big Al, do you know what I mean ?
Mr t__:^)
Actually, Thurston, I have no idea concerning the rules of CNG buses as I've never had to work with them or received any type of training regarding them what so ever. There were no CNG Orions when I started training in 1994 and have worked in Queens since 1995 but never came into any type of contact with them other then seeing them on the streets of Brooklyn every now and then when I pass through.
BIG AL
There seems to be a difference between the TA & nycDOT "privates". We're restricted very specifically in the number of "standees" we can add to an otherwise full bus. NYS DOT imposes it because of their concern about the top heavyness of a bus with tanks on the roof.
Our older 500s have 12 tanks, so only 12 standees permitted.
Our 400s have 8, so it's 22 standees.
Now the good old RTS can still be packed solid at the drivers descression.
The MCIs we must maint. enough room for coffee & NY Times reading :-)
Mr t
>>>We also might offer an all expense paid round trip to Jamaica .... Queens that is ... or Nassau ... the County<<<
That could get pretty pricey if a fella like RTS 2150 should happen to score the prize!
Some other spots named after places in England are: Southampton, Kew Gardens and Forest Hill (no S). Don't forget about Freeport.
True, but you catch folks with Nassau & Jamaica every time.
BTW, do they have a 4th of July in England ... why sure it's right after the third, just not a holiday over there.
Mr t__:^)
[Some other spots named after places in England are... Forest Hill (no S)....]
Not quite. According to the Queens Tribune, Forest Hills was named - rather boringly - for the hills adjoining Forest Park (which itself was named for its rather sylvan appearance).
Kew Gardens, on the other hand, was named for the Royal Botanical Gardens at Kew-on-the-Thames.
You are not at capacity till TWO wheelchairs are accomodated......
ex-TA b/o
Until both the sitting and standing capicity are reached, as specified in the specifications for the bus.
THE BUS IS AT CAPACITY---WHEN I SAY IT IS!!!
And that's my final answer! LOL
BIG AL
It's full when it leans precariously to the right and the right front wheel is slamming against the wheel well! At least thts how it is in Midtown Manhattan! :^)
At 9:45AM today, I saw bus 604 w/b on Old Country Road stopped at Manetto Hill Rd red light. The back of the Orion had a wrap for a product known as Danielle Leather.
Will we be seeing more wraps. As I posted yesterday about RTS 4302, any way of getting extra money into these operations, especially LI Bus shouldn't be overlooked.
That was for Danier Leather which has shops at Roosevelt Field and Walt Whitman Malls. There's a number of LI Bus diesel Orions that have the Danier rear wrap. I've also seen some of the Suffolk Gilligs with Danier wraps. So far I haven't seen any of the LI Bus CNG's with rear wraps. Hope to see more soon. Mini wraps on the drivers side would be nice too. BTW, Hart Bus, you were in my neck of the woods!
Bus 940 has the same advertisement.
B53 Rich- I am a self-employed CPA who lives in Suffolk. Since I don't work for one company at one desk all day, my job locations can be paraphrased like the old TV show title "Have Pencil Will Travel".
My travels take me to Fort Greene Brooklyn once a week, and then over Nassau and Suffolk at other times. I always keep my eyes out for anything unusual to report.
(Off Topic to Rich -- Do you patronize the Plainview Diner, my wife and I are there usually once every three or four Sat. nites.)
Hello all, last week I checked in on the chat, but found nobody there. Do the chats still take place? Also, I'm aware that the java program will not work for those of us who use WebTV, therefore I have written a small IRC that will work for you. If you want the IRC, please email me and I will send it to you.
Thanks :-)
I want to know whether these transit bus models exist and where I can get them if they do: Gillig Phantoms (not out of legos), Orions, Neoplan ( I saw one in the Philadelphia transit museum so many years ago, but it disappeared!), Flxibles (Big size, not HO), and any others excluding the MCIs, Fishbowls (maybe the Flixible New-Look though), and any un-american bus (including MAN 40ft buses)
You won't readily find models of any bus other than the GM fishbowls and MCI's and Orion 5's.
Flxible Corporation was very particular about anyone using their logos or products and never gave anyone permission to make models of their products. It was only in recent years that a model of their older highway coach -- the "Clipper" -- was made, by American Precision Models, out of Buffalo, NY. They also made a GM TDH4510 old look, and rumor has it that they are going to produce the GM new looks.
Nobody's ever made a Gillig model. And nobody's come out with productionmodels of the USA Neoplans. There are models that show up every now and then of the European models. Lately there have been N117/3's (double deckers) on eBay going for around $25-30 -- but they are REALLY about $8 at flea markets, swap meets, outlet centers, if you can find them. They are blue and say "Megaliner World Class passenger Bus" in gold on them. They have one fault -- they are missing the window glazing int he doors, otherwise they are decent models.
There have been bus bank models of the Orion 5 made, but I've never seen one in person. They are the same size as the plastic RTS and various MCI model banks, made by Jimson Industries in China. I know for a fact that the MC-9's did cost $2.48 apiece when bought in a carton of twelve from universal Coach Parts about 15 years go -- I had topick up 300 of them and apply labels to them for the company I worked for. I'd say they go for no more than five bucks apiece nowadays from UCP -- but collectors are charging $25-30 bucks for them because they know most people don't realize they can go to UCP and buy them at normal retail cost (blank ones, of course).
You may be able to buy all the types I say aren't available from a guy down in Florida, he's a retired Greyhound driver by the name of David Roberts. He makes cast-plaster models of the various bus types in various scales at somewhat reasonable prices. Most are offered unpainted, and with a little work, look halfway decent.
Sorry I don't have Mr. Roberts' address -- he does market the stuff under the name "Roberts Miniature Buses" I believe.
The following bus models i was able to find were the RTS NOVABUS and the GMC New look in 1/87 scale. They are made in China and can be found in NYC (I have 30 of the RTS and 6 of the New look).
If you go to ebay under "Wiking bus", look at some of the buses there. the buses look like MAN Americana in the 40-foot model and range between 10-20 dollars.
I too am waiting for APM to make a GMC New look model. I had heard a few years ago that they were going to make one, but its a shame it never came out.
Whenever anyone gets word when the GMC New look is avaible in HO scale, please email me at pingu45@aol.com or post it here, becasue i would love to at it to my collection.
By the way, Flixible mad buses for Las Vegas as well (i have 13 of those)
APM is working on the GM new look model. There was a delay due to the company that made the shells, from the specs provided by APM, went out of business and they had to find another company to make the shells.
hope it comes out soon.
Soon? I hope it comes out RIGHT. The biggest complaint about the Corgi fishbowls are their lack of accuracy on the marker lights, taillights, and rear door - not to mention, the transit interior is all forward-facing seats on platforms (suburbans, basically) instead of the longitudinal seats over the wheelwells (correctly done in the Corgi "Old Looks").
Yeah..what's up with that? Same thing with the Road Champs Flxible Metro...all forward-facing like a suburban. What an afterthought. Good thing there's people like me who are willing to tear one down and customize it to look right. If I can cut one of these down to make a 35-footer, I can accomplish anything.
You made a 35-footer? Can you post pictures?
Chris
I will post a pic once the project is done; keep in touch!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
I like the Corgi fishbowls, but I totally agree with you about their inaccuracies. I have 6 of them now and 3 have the correct marker lights. I rec'd my NYCTA TDH-5301 last week. It's pretty good, but the green is defintely off. The color resembled the greenon the fishbowl in the movie "Bronx Tale" - and that bus was way off. In addition to the wrong shade of green the window frames were black and it was a T6H-5305. The TA had A/C (T6H-5305A) and MABSTOA pretty muchg didn't have the T6H-5305A.
Corgi's NYBS 5301 fishbowl was a good one also, but it has the EIP which wasn't available on first and second generation fishbowls.
Wayne
<<< The following bus models i was able to find were the RTS NOVABUS and the GMC New look in 1/87 scale. They are made in China and can be found in NYC >>>
Are the RTS and New Looks still available? I was in NYC around the Christmas holiday and didn't see any at the Transit Museum gift shops or anywhere else. I wanted to pick up an RTS for my son (and a few for myself!).
If anyone knows where these buses can be found, please post here or e-mail me. Thanks!
Jim (RailBus)
I may have at least one of each left; I will check my stock to see what I have. Hope to hear from you soon!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
The 1/87 New Look appears on E-bay once in a while. It comes in silver greyhound, light green (I think) greyhound and a NYC bus version. All are marked "Central Station".
Check under diecast bus, die cast bus, transit bus, toy bus. Also occasionally a seller by the name of "b.rooster" sells them as well as a slightly larger than 1/87 version of RTS in NYC bus and LA livery.
Note: I am not connected with e-bay or the seller mentioned.
It's good to see that you like Lego Gilligs...LOL. On a serious note, I am working on a mold for an HO scale Gillig at the moment; hopefullly it will be completed in the near future. Also, I offer some Flxible New Look models; I have two sizes...1/100 scale (slightly smaller than HO) and 1/200 scale. These are one-piece molded plastic models suitable for model railroad layouts. Also, a 1/43 scale Flxible Metro was made but these are pricey and hard to come by for under $200. I'm always finding something interesting in buses and offer custom painting; for more info on these, contact me or visit my website at members.aol.com/Fredman176/myhomepage.
Hope to hear from you soon!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
hope to see what the HO Gillig looks like. I may be interested in purchasing one, as well as the HO Flixible (if that is ever made)-please post or email when the model is avaible or there is a picture avaible to see.
Sure thing. As for the Flxible New Look, it is available now, and here is the picture link:
members.aol.com/Fredman176/myhomepage/flxible.jpg
Is the bus moveable? If it is, email me, becasue i would be interested in buying one of them. Let me know as soon as possible.
I am looking into retrofitting these with rolling chassis, but at the moment they are one-piece plastic with molded-in wheels; let me know if you have a strong interest in a rolling Flx. Thank you for your inquiry!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
a rolling fliz is better than one that doesnt move. i have a pretend bus fleet and would want a bus with moving wheels. when the bus is able to move, then i am interested
I will get right on it, in that case; in fact, I think I have just the chassis and wheel setup for it. Let me get right on that...with thinking!
-Fred
Great news, everyone; as you may know, I have some one-piece plastic Flxible New Look models in 1:100 scale, slightly smaller than HO. Since I have received a lot of requests to put these stationary models on rolling wheels, I have taken a step to modify one as a prototype.
So far I have the plastic wheels cut out of the wheelwells and the body is ready to accept a pair of subframe assemblies. These will utilize a split, modified diecast chassis from a Johnny Lightning bread truck, which is about the same width and includes chrome heavy duty truck-style wheels with rubber tires and tandem rear axle.
My next step is to cut and narrow the chassis into subframes and affix them to the underside to make a nice, rolling Flxible New Look model. I will keep everyone posted on my progress; feel free to contact me for inquires or comments. Thanks again!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
cant wait to see when it is done. any plans to do one in ho scale as well? you know you got a buyere if you do.
This will be the closest I get to HO on these; it is 1:100 scale, which would suffice as it is not that much smaller. I'll keep everyone posted!
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Wed. I was passing through Stamford, VT and saw tons of GMC and Flxible Goldfish bowls- with the A/C over the rear roof edge. They seemed to be in pretty good shape.
What's a goldfish bowl? They're called FISHBOWLS.
Peace,
ANDEE
Must be talking about the SEPTA Fishbowls, because they were painted gold during the '70s.
These are great buses; are they still in service or did you just see them sitting around? Hopefully not the latter. At any rate, it's good to know they're still around!
-Fred
Haven't seen a SEPTA Fishbowl since 1986. The last time I've seen a SEPTA Flxible was at The Delaware Transportaion a few years ago. The only fishbowl that I've seen in Philly, it a suburban model that's white and a green and a purple stripe and it says "Burlington" on the side of it. Either SEPTA scrapped them all, or a few were preserved. BTW, coming into Wilmington, De. on the R-2, I've seen a Green Hornet PTC (with an old SEPTA logo) GM Old Look bus sitting next to a boat with weeds growing on them. I'm wondering if it's restorable.
I believe the Burlington fishbowl you're referring to is a former New York Bus Service T6H5308A built in 1972, possibly #1311. I haven't been in Center City Philadelphia during rush hours recently, but I can double check...
Also, the ex-SEPTA Flxible New Look is #6569, a 1974 53096-8-1 which is part of the SEPTA historic fleet. The only other bus that is presently part of this fleet is RTS 35-ft Slopeback #4462, built in 1980. At least two others may become part of the historic fleet: Volvo 40-ft #8590 (which was built to RIPTA specs; don't really know the whole history behind this bus) and Neoplan BM Suburban #8698, which though still in active service, was selected for restoration upon retirement. There may be a GM Fishbowl set to be restored, but I haven't confirmed this yet.
whatever happened to thar volvo bus? Wasn't it sent to another museum already? Also, on what routes is 8698 being run on nowadays? Certainly not the 105 anymore. I want to say goodbye (8698 is my favorite Neo)
The last time I saw it was a couple of weeks ago on the 104 out in West Chester.
T6H5308A? I't a suburban model. No center door and luggage compartments. If anything, it would be a S6H5308A. It does have a hydraulic transmission (unusual for a Suburban Fishbowl).
There was no such model as an S6H5308A. Based on the 08 part I'd make a guess you mean a S8H5304A made between 1972-1976 with an 8V-71 engine as by that time suburbans were all 8's.
What I meant that was that it at least coudn't have been a bus that's a T6H or any model that began with "T".
The New York Bus Service fishbowls delivered new were all "Transit" models with interiors modified to "suburban" model standards. NYBS has a large fleet of T6H5308A's and still operate a fleet of T8H5308A's in suburban configuration.
I had been calling them all suburbans also because they had suburban features, but it was explained here on BT recently that... If a bus was built without the underfloor luggage space it was considered a transit bus and given a transit model designation. I thought that was a bit silly because of all of the features found on suburban buses - my thinking is that the luggage space probably was the least used. To me it was very simple. Suburbans had one door, no standee windows, highbacked seats on raised platforms, very often a manual transmission and they were 96 inches wide. The topic came up because NYBS GMDD fishbowls are designated T8H-5308A and I was thinking they should be S8H-5304A.
At one point Liberty Lines had many true suburban fishbowls in service, but they had a few odd buses. Anyone familiar with Liberty Lines equipment prior to the MCI Classic arriving knew that... It was a fleet dominated by GM suburbans (no GMDD unfortunately) including the H6H-649/P8H-4905A stuff with some MC-8 and MC-9's. Amongst the fishbowls were a few third (I think about 6 of them) generation fishbolws. I cannot remember if they (1701-1706???) had underfloor storage space, but they definitely had both transit and suburban features. They had the DD 6V-71 engine (which was very unusual at Liberty Lines), flourescent interior lighting, standee windows and only one door. I'm guessing that this was designated a transit bus which would've been T6H-5306A. I'd be very suprised if they were S6H-5303A.
Wayne
Any more details you can provide about these buses? Paint schemes, etc.
Jim (RailBus)
Let the beatings begin!
The 7000's were good buses when they got to FP in the early/mid 1980's
I actually remember bus 7032 at JAM. It was the only 1973 Flxible amidst a sea of 75-7700s that were there throughtout the '80's.
Mark
Last night,just after 6PM, MBTA bus 8618 rear ended MBTA bus 0323 on Columbus Ave at Walnut St in Boston. 55 people were transported to area hospitals for mostly minor injuries. The driver of 8618 was trapped in the bus and had to be extricated by firefighters using the Jaws of Life. The destinantion sign on 8618 was showing Route 22 Ashmont/Ruggles via Jackson Sq. I don't know what route 0323 was on, as the news video I saw didn't show too much of the front of that bus.It appears both buses suffered extensive damage, the windhsield of 8618 was out, front engd well banged up, the drivers' compartment area torn apart by the Jaws of Life being used.The right rear corner grille area of 0323 was just about on the pavement. Both buses have been impounded to be inspected by MBTA and Massachusetts State Police accident reconstruction investigators. They'll be looking for any mechanical problems as a part of the investigation.
Mark Watson
0323 was probably on MBTA Route 44, on its way down Seaver Street to Jackson Square Station.
After the MSP and MBTA investigations, 8618 will most likely be sent to Everett for extensive repairs, or, if the damages are bad enough, 8618 will probably be scrapped.
Checking the MBTA active bus roster on the New England Transportation site (aol.members.com/netransit) I see that 8618 is a 1986/7 GMC RTS. I would guess given the age of this bus, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up scrapped if the damage is deemed bad enough. 0323 is a 1995 Nova Bus RTS. I would guess this bus may have a better chance of avoiding the scrap yard. Both of these buses are assigned to the Cabot Garage according to the NET roster.
By the way, I saw on Ch.7 news this AM that MSP and MBTA investigators will be taking 8618 apart to determine if there were any brake or other mechanical problems that may have contributed to the accident.
Also, the NET roster notes that 0157 and 8492 are stored awating sale. My guess is sale to a scrap dealer? Any one know what happened to these buses to land them in this category?
Mark Watson
Both buses in the MBTA accident were on Route 22
0323 will be repaired no problem, 8618 is repairable (requires a new front end module) but we will see if they decide to spend that kind of money and labor effort on a 15 year old bus.
MBTA 0157 was broadsided at the rear-door by an auto-carrier truck about 4 years ago. Some of the autos landed on the roof of the bus. The frame was bent and it was determined that the cost to replace the damage modules would be close to the cost of a new bus. It was stripped for parts.
MBTA 8492 rear-ended a truck last year. It needs a new front end module, but as it is now a 16 year old bus, and new buses are on order, it was stripped for parts. The MBTA only has enough new buses on order right now to replace their 1985 series 04 RTS buses (of which 8492 is one). 8618 is a 1986 RTS 06 and might be a better candidate for repair even though it is only one year newer than 8492.
The NABI buses the MBTA has ordered won't be arriving until 2003, if what was reported recently in the Boston Herald is correct. Would the T just dip into it's contingency fleet (which only has 9 or 10 buses listed on that roster, all 1985 or 86 GMC RTS) and use one of those buses to replace 8618? Or is the contingency fleet for other purposes?
Mark Watson
The contingency fleet is for other purposes, not wreck replacement.
While the NABI buses won't come before 2003 and any option buses wouldn't come before 2004, it takes about a year for the MBTA to replace a front end module on an RTS and can cost about $100,000. 0317 was in a wreck last February that required a new front end module and only now is ready for release from Everett. If 8618 is repaired, it won't be finished before 2002. The replacement buses for the 86/8700s could be arriving by 2004 if the pick up the option with NABI to double the present order. So do they want to spend $100,000 on a bus that might only run two more years after it is repaired? Maybe, because picking up the NABI option is not a sure thing, especially since they still don'thave a CNG repair facility and they are getting neighborhood opposition to the proposed Arborway garage. They probably won't make a decision on 8618 right away, as they now have a backlog of buses with rear-end collision damage that will be repaired first (0121, 0323, and 8824).
I compared my inventory lists from my visits on 6/7/2000 & 8/23/2000 to Post 25569.
I think that Caine has combined the Varsity Yard at Foutain Ave & Wortman St. and the DOT Yard on Flatlands Ave. He didn't see ex-Command 353 at Varsity. Maybe it was out on the road.
New to the yard is GBL 1006, CTC 2136, 644,659,646,688,677 and the unknown 2805. Also new is Command Orion I- 901 and Command GMC New Look 493
Reappearing after being there in June but missing in August was CTC 2137, 2139 and 2145.
In residence since at least June 7th GBL 1007 & 1009, CTC 2137, 2138, 2139, 2145 and 2141. Also Command Flxible New Look 793, Command GMC New Look 483 & 490.
Assuming the report is accurate, then gone are since August are CTC
2143, 2465 and M 2437. Command New Look Fishbowls 253, 485,486,487,489,496,602,604,605,606 and 702 as well as all JBL Flxible 870's.
Seems like a lot of the Fishbowls are gone. Also Caine made no mention of any of the damaged buses Command RTS 4927,4918 49XX and
MCI Suburban 431.
Caine, Thanx for the report - Hart Bus
actually, i think it was both garages that i saw and i did see the damaghed buses, but since i could not see the numbers, i did not know what they were. I think Command #235-1 could be updated and put in service.
As some of you may know, last week I was at QV. I happened to see buses 1751, 1767, 1773 and 1852-right behind them were 3807, 3818 and 3824. All are sitting on the dead line. As mentioned on the last post, they would go out only if absolutely necessary. As far as who's the winner of the 1982 RTS Suburban Contest-we may have 4 winners-the 4 at QV Now. HOWEVER, the last bus that I saw operating on the streets was 1751. I said that she was the winner-but I have that feeling that these 4 buses will go to scrap all at the same time-not notifying us on who's the last 1. So whoever picked 1751 1767 1773 and 1852 to be the winners of the 1982 RTS Contest-congrats.
Another point: QV is gonna be short 3 more buses-4321 4333 and 4339 as these bad boys have engine probs so they're gonna be shipped out to scrap most likely. In their place will go 4010. Go figure! We get rid of newer buses to get an older 1. That's the MTA for SE Queens for ya!
Q46#4045Gary
That means I'm the only winner! I picked PA1767! Ha ha ha! As far as I know no one picked 1751, 1773, or 1852. Personally, I thoguht it'd be PA1826, but I guess they repaired 1767's bulkheads for an extra few months of service after all. My pick shined through in the end.
X68-PA1767 Jason
I took 1852 a while back...I remember her as being speedy though rattly....I hope she sees one more tour of duty before her date with Nimco.
I was getting off the E Train last week. When I got on the Q84 at Bay F, I got on the bus, and I read a notice. Starting tomorrow, the Q84 and the Q42 headed towards Laurelton and Sayres avenue and Addesleigh park will be changed to the northbound side of Archer Avenue. The reason this is so unfair is because they built 2 shelters on the other side of archer by the 153rd street entrance. those shelters WILL NOT hold all the Q42 and Q84 riders. If any MTA officials read this, please note that the Q42 and Q84 riders are not happy about this and are banding together to try and protest and complain about this change. If any Railfan or Busfan has anything to say about this, please respond.
Why MTA Doing this?
puting Q42 And Q84 Across the street on the north side of Archer ave is a bad Idea. I saw this notice on the MTA website Last Week.
The North Side of archer is a bus stop for the Q20. And the 2 bus bays that the Q42 And Q84 use before the move of the bus stop is going to be takeing over by The Q4 LTD And the Q85 To Rosedale.
are these people at the MTA Are Stupid or something?
Instead of bitching here, write a letter to the MTA. I know it's a pain in the ass, because their website is "deaf", but if it REALLY matters to you WRITE A LETTER. Who knows? You might be pleasantly surprised.
Peace,
ANDEE
Instead of bitching here, write a letter to the MTA. I know it's a pain in the ass, because their website is "deaf", but if it REALLY matters to you WRITE A LETTER. Who knows? You might be pleasantly surprised.
Peace,
ANDEE
I think it is a good idea, from a bus operators perspective because, simply put, during rush hour in the afternoon & evening, there are too many buses under the canopy. We simply can't get in & out anymore and try to keep any kind of schedule. And it will only get worse as transit increases the service, something the public wants anyway. I know it may be a slight inconvience for the Q84 passengers, but they will get used to it over time. Actually, it's really no inconvience. Just get on the bus on the other side of the street. What's the big deal? There is never a long line for the Q42 riders so it won't matter at all for them. This will in no way interfere with the Q20/44 at all as those stops are at the other end of the block. Having seperate lines for the Q4 & Q85 local & limited like the Q5 is something that should have been done from a long time ago. We need the extra space. Period. I fully support this great idea. Chalk one up for transit this time.
BIG AL
One more fact I would like to point out. There are too many people jammed under the canopy also. This will give them alot more room to breathe also.
BIG AL
I believe that the SI Advance has the information wrong when it comes to the X21, I don't understand on how the X21 could travel along the same route as the X22 from Pleasent Plains to the West Shore Expressway.
In the SI Advance, it has the X21 starting at Plasent Plains, travel along Amboy Rd to Woodrow Rd, but Amboy & Woodrow Rds don't meet so I believe that the X21 routing that was published in the Advance is wrong.
If anyone including any SI bus driverd have the correct routing for the X21 or if you have the corrent route descipition for both the X21 & X22 routes, please post the information.
METROCARD & CARDHOLDERS COLLECTORS CATALOG
This is an 8.5 inch x 11inch 20 page booklet printed by the MTA. They later decided not to distribute it. It contains 20 glossy, color pages of actual size photos of 1997-99 commemorative MetroCards & cardholders. Full color photos of the Subway Series 97, Then and Now, Emigrant, JVC Jazz, Healthy City, Ferry Boat, Yankees 98, Subway Cool, Millennial Journeys, Mets International Week plus 63 Cardholders including the complete Great Subway series. All photos are actual size & full color! A beautiful collectors MUST HAVE. The supply is limited. When they are gone, they are gone.
Send $10.00 ea. plus $2. P & H in check or Money Order.
Made out to: Mike Makman, To: Prof. Putter, Po Box 755
Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
I recently read in the SI Advance that right after the X21 & X22 express buses start operating, there will be two more South Shore express buses being operated by a private operator.
Does anyone have any information on to where these two routes will operate between including a route descipition for both routes & a start up date.
If a private operator isn't chosen to operate these two routes, has anyone heard of any source from NYCT on whether they will operate the other two South Shore express buses.
To Me.
Those 2 Outer Routes will be run by Atlantic Express witch runs a few express routes to and from SI, to and from NYC TOO.
Today I Saw About 3 Buses that is at HP but with the depot of the bus used to be At. Here's the list of buses that I saw with the depot logo where the bus used to be at. also I put down witch routes where on too.
4549 126St M14
4648 126St M14
3470 MV M8
3470 MV M11 (on M11 1/27/2001)
I got on one of then 4549 at E.6 St And Ave D On The M14 by time I Got off at 9 Ave And 14 St.I Saw One of the 3400's that is at HP Too. It's Not 3470. It's one of the outher 3400's that is at HP Too.
But this bus have a HP Logo on It.
I am creating an experiment to try to have a universal rail/bus website update page. In this way, one will be able to get update messages from all participating sites by joining the single Yahoo Club I have created. For instance, provided that TransiTalk, NYC Subway Resources, and Oren's Transit Page all join, you can get all their update messages provided you sign up! Both webmasters and web browsers are welcome and needed! The club isn't worthwhile without both!
The URL for the club is http://clubs.yahoo.com/transitsiteupdates.
I will update on the sucess of this experiment as time goes on.
Sincerely,
Oren H.
Webmaster of Oren's Transit Page
http://www.orenstransitpage.com
My bad!
The correct URL is: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/transitsiteupdates.
Sorry for the confusion!
Well, who operates these buses, especially the true low floor buses? I have never seen these anywhere, including pictures. So, where are they? Did anyone even order them?
Pittsburgh operates some. Now that Neoplan fixed the frame problem on that batch, they are a pretty decent bus.
Unfortunately, Neoplan low floors are pretty rare.
Pittsburgh has the largest single batch, 160 1999 40-footers. Most of us know about the frame fiasco with these buses which Neoplan has been working day and night to fix. As RDChilds said, once the frames are fixed, these will probably be great buses. Hopefully that will bolster their popularity with other TA's. Also, rumor has it that Pittsburgh will soon be ordering more Neoplan low floors, this time both 40- and 35-foot models. Also, check out some of the Pittsburgh transit webpages for photos and info on the three little Neoplan composite demo buses temporarily in service there.
Mafia-operated Valley Metro in Phoenix, AZ has a lone 1993 Neoplan low floor, #4001. I once spotted this bus in service on their Route 106 and it looked very, very cool. Styling not quite as off-the-wall as a NovaLFS, but far more interesting to look at than a New Flyer or Gillig (I shudder at the very thought of Gillig low floors).
Several airlines have purchased Neoplan TLF ('true' [100%] low floor) buses for tarmac shuttle services. These do not look exactly like the transit models.
Also, many smaller transit systems in Colorado give Neoplan business that we East Coast transit spectators never hear about. Several Colorado TA's operate numerous different models of Neoplan low floors in all lengths.
Boston's MBTA has two orders pending with Neoplan, one for the duo-mode articulated units to serve the Silver Line and another for 20-30 low floor 40-foot trolleybuses. I know for a fact that the Silver Line vehicles will not look anything like your typical American Neoplan bus; I'm not sure about the design of the trackless trolleys.
When and if Cleveland ever gets their Euclid Avenue BRT project off the drawing board, they will likely use the same vehicles as the Boston Silver Line. I remember reading a classified ad in Passenger Transport a couple years ago which was a joint ad by GCRTA and MBTA seeking a builder for these vehicles. (If this happens, GCRTA will have a very cool fleet IMO.)
For now, I think that's it. I hope PATransit in Pittsburgh will spread the word about Neoplan's good aftermarket service to the entire transit industry, and the orders will start rolling in for Neoplan (and Gillig will stop building their POS low floor.)
Another note on low floors and a possible future destination for Neoplan low floors is AC Transit in Oakland-Alameda County, California. They are currently soliciting bids for 110 40-foot low floors with the option for another 110. This RFP comes after five years of buying exclusively NABI buses (except 30 New Flyer D60's), standard floor and low floor.
Thanks,
Neil
I can verify that United Airlines has four of the TLF buses at San Francisco Airport. They use them for shuttle service from their main terminal to their United Express commuter terminal that is removed from the main terminal area. I understand (from my sister, a UA employee) that they also have some in Chicago (O'Hare).
As I mentioned several months back, I thought I spotted one in UA colors at Kennedy Airport. I haven't been back there since to check it out further as, at the time, I wasn't 100% certain of which manufacturer the bus came from. It definitely was a low-floor and probably was a Neoplan.
I don't post here to often, but I'm sure this has been discussed here.
NYU BUSES:
Does anybody know if a roster exists? Saw two yesterday on Broadway, one had a digital display on the back for a route number, the other didn't. I believe they are stored in Hoboken,NJ. They look like narrow width RTS's. Thanks!
Bill "Newkirk"
They also have one which looks like an old trolley car.
Arti
The following was the NYU roster about 18 months ago. The NYU service was operated directly at one time but has been operated by Gray Line NY Tours for the last 2-3 years. I have seen RTS's numbered up to 5120, some of which are fitted with reclining seats and are ex Golden Gate Transit. The latest deliveries have been about 3 to 5 of the trollies.
5101 Goshen R2106729 1994 Ex New York University
5102 Blue Bird TF067913 1996 Ex New York University
5103-5105Blue Bird TF072998-3000 1996 Ex New York University
5106-5107TMC T70604 821744, 821747 1983 Ex Gardena Mun. Bus Lines 702,705
5108-5109GMC T80604 812307, 812313 1981 Ex Long Beach Pub Trn Corp 4428, 4434
5110 GMC T80204 811249 1981 Ex Los Angeles MTA 8745
"5108-5109GMC T80604 812307, 812313 1981 Ex Long Beach Pub Trn Corp 4428, 4434
5110 GMC T80204 811249 1981 Ex Los Angeles MTA 8745 "
scedman,
I see there some RTS's from the west coast. Couldn't they acquire some second hand from the TA ? Are those RTS's handicapped accesible ? What if a student in a wheelchair wants to board ?
Bill "Newkirk"
Gray Line New York Tours is a Coach USA company. They buy used buses for transit contracts from all over the country. The contract calls for wheelchair lift buses, and all of the RTS's have lifts. If buyers have a choice, west coast buses make the best used bus purchase due to lack of salt on the roads.
On Saturday, I had posted that the SI Advance has the information wrong when it comes to the X21, I don't understand on how the X21 could travel along the same route as the X22 from Pleasent Plains to the West Shore Expressway.
In the SI Advance, it has the X21 starting at Pleasent Plains, travel along Amboy Rd to Woodrow Rd, but Amboy & Woodrow Rds don't meet so I believe that the X21 routing that was published in the Advance is wrong.
Again, if anyone including any SI bus drivers have heard the correct routing for the X21 or if you have the current route descipition for both the X21 & X22 routes, please post the information.
People will respond when/if they have information. If you ask every day, some people may feel obligated to NOT give out information.
Okay, I'm 85% certain that this is Follo. For him to ask about SI SS Express service so much, it must be very crucial for him to have it. So someone just please give it to him so he can inform the masses and become the superhero he dreams of being just like the Superman on his jammie-jams.
>>>Okay, I'm 85% certain that this is Follo. <<<
Don't think so, Style of wriring is completly different.
Peace,
ANDEE
THis is not Folo or whatever
When the routes are presented to the Board..I will post them here for you
Steve
I just wanted to let you know that I don't even know who this fellow is, so please don't accuse me.
While everyone here takes apart JA for the lack of new buses, how about the condition of the ORION V at Yukon in Staten Island. Yukon lost routes to Castleton, leaving them with about 25 ORION Buses and a handful of RTS buses to cover local routes S61/S91,S55/S56 and S79 (MCI and ORION Express cover all other express routes).
The Orion V buses are scrattchi heaven, inside the buses on the windows and the back wall of the buses. While people may complain about Jamaica buses, keep in mind that Jamaica does not have a scrattchi problem as much as Yukon does. What is Yukon doing to imporve this? If they cant do the job right, send them to Jamaica so they can be treated well.
CS has the same Orion V's and they don't have a scratchetti problem -even the 93 Orion V suburbans were treated good in local service.
Who scratches the windows? TA personel or the riders? Maybe the riders in Jamaica respect property more than their Staten Island counterparts.
the youth of staten island have nothing better to do with their boring lives.
The Mission Monday for this week has been moved to today due to the upcoming inclimate weather. Today's adventure took me up to Springfield, MA for the Annual Model Railroad Show.
The day started on a nice Amtrak Northeast Direct ride into Springfield. After arriving I was greeted by one of my close colleagues, David Willoughy of TransiTALK. He showed me around Downtown Springfield, where the home transit property is Pioneer Valley Transit Authority. WOW!!!!! If I had a blind fold, I would've thought I was in Downtown Manhattan, thier Nova and TMC RTS-06 have the same engine and transmision combo as our 1994 and up RTSs.
After arriving at the train show, who other than myself would try to hunt out bus models at a train show. However, I was sucessful in my mission, I was able to obtain two Corgi GMC New Look "Fishbowl" models (Chicago Transit and Lionel City Transit). After the hunt for the buses were over, we proceeded to the Springfield Bus Terminal where there was a lot of action for a Sunday afternoon. Plenty of PVTA TMC and NovaBUS RTS-06s were coming in and out, Lots of Peter Pan equipment to scope out too. Also to my suprise, sitting in the Peter Pan facility, parallel to the terminal, was a Peter Pan MCI MC-5C. That was a shocking suprise along with three of Peter Pan's Vintage Coaches (Two GMs and a Buick).
After dillying around the Terminal for about a hour, it was time to head back to the train station for a ride back to NYC. This time, my scheduled train was the Acela Regional, no need to say more!!!!!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
From the PVTA photos I've seen at Transitalk, I find it interesting that on some of the newer RTS buses, they have two separate front signs: the standard destination sign, and a route sign to the left of where the run number would go.
After returning home tonight for the Mission Monday V, I turn on the TV and just at this moment a commercial comes on that catches my eye!
It Begins.......
One chicken lucking on the Canon of Heros. Then a couple of other chickens clucking in some remote location in Manhattan, then three chickens riding the top of a yellow taxi, then a rack of chickens alight a Bombardier R-62A at Wall Street Station, then the same rack of chickens are shown exiting the station onto the street. Then there is just a huge freaking population of chickens flooding Downtown Manhattan with a paned back view. Then all of a sudden its quiet, At one time every chicken clucks which sends a sound wave from Downtown Manhattan into a good 5 mile radius. After showing the ripple, the cameras show a MTA NovaBUS RTS-06 on some uptown crosstown route, and just as the bus hits the intersection, KABOOM, It's hit with the wave and is destroyed! From what I saw in that 2 second flash the bus number was #5172. Then commentor comes on and bables about internet services.
Now, for a Flxible fan who is not a big RTS fan, this was the funniest commercial i've seen in a while. But to those are HUGE RTS fans. 1 DOWN, MANY MORE TO GO!!!!!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Maybe that explains that chicken on that RTS out 126th St a few weeks ago.:>)
LOL! Now that's funny! :o)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Maybe that chicken drank Diesel Feul And Ran Faster than A M15 Bus on 2 Ave.
<<< Now, for a Flxible fan who is not a big RTS fan, this was the funniest commercial i've seen in a while. But to those are HUGE
RTS fans. 1 DOWN, MANY MORE TO GO!!!!!!!!! >>>
You must have loved the movie 'The Siege' :)
Jim
Did I Ever, I even took a screen shot to laugh at from time to time!
I'm not a total anti-RTS person, I "ONLY" Like the 1993-1994 TMC RTS-06, Other than those, BLAH!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
That was bus 1648 which was renumbered PA4199. As far as the Chicken commercial-it looked like a 2600 RTS getting blown away-not 5172. It looked to me like 2611. I could be worng though.
M20#5172Gary
Like RTS's or not, I tend to think that the MTA would not destroy a two year old bus simply for the sake of making a commercial. I'm sorry that I had to be the first to say that.
You may have been to say it, but I had been thinking that for quite some time. It was probably computer generated anyway. I could never forgive the MTA if they destroyed a beautiful RTS just to advertise some internet service.
Boys, Boys, of course it was computer generated, you can see that in the grapics itself. But the point is that, it was funny to see a RTS being destroyed by a sound wave made by Chickens!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I think it's also kinda sad... a chicken knocking over a 40' bus...
That just made it even funnier, to put it that way, LOL! (I'm on the floor in stitches!)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transital.com
{You must have loved the movie 'The Siege' :)}
I know I did:-). ...and of course I didn't like the scene in the beginning of "Speed" where they blew up the SMMBL Grumman 870.
Wayne
HI.
I Am Looking for a Suffolk Transit Fan Page That Have Photo's Of Buses Suffolk Transit have Running since Suffolk Transit Starting running buses. Do Anybody Know? Also Type Down The URL To That Site If You Know It? It don't have to have Photos From when Suffolk Transit first start Running anyway.
I doubt one exists. Based on the few postings on this board about Suffolk Transit I don't think there is much demand for it.
When the county started it by contracting with private operators I think that whatever spare equipment they had in their respective fleets were used. When the county started supplying the Gillig's the private companies retired whatever equipment was used.
If someone has pictures of the what the privates used initally, I'm sure it would be a hodge-podge of equipment probably with cardboard signs in the windows.
However, perhaps an e-mail to Suffolk Transit or Suffolk County Executive Robert Gaffney's office can help.
I remember riding the 3D back in 1982. The "bus" looked like an ice cream truck turned into a bus. I think the old Atlantic City Jitney buses were the same model.
Recently I've began Mission Mondays visiting other transits properties other than the NYCDOT, MTA and NJT Properties. I actually want to start taking request of properties people wish to see on the net.
And I'm gonna begin with yours. Next Monday I have to Baltimore, but the following Monday, I will make it my business to do Suffolk Transit upon your request. Just give me at least 2 weeks!
Hope you are satisfied with my attempt to please transit fans!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Ok. But Just One thing to tell you.
You Have Photo's of buses in Baltimore on your website aready. there's no need to go back to Baltimore. unless you going to see somebody down there.
Dominick Bermudez.
Well, what it is, is that Baltimore has a couple of sections, when I went down there, I had only stayed in the Downtown Section, this time when I go, I plan on venturing out into the suburbs! Just like in about 3 weeks I will return to DC to do a Virginia Suburbs Focus.
But after Baltimore and before DC, I will go out to Suffolk!
Trevor Logan
I have recently been given the impression that there seems to have been a breakdown in the vendor-customer relationship between NYC Transit and NovaBUS. Can anyone shed any light on this? And how, if true, will it bode for the upcoming new low-floor RTS in New York?
Ok, here is the deal:
There is some bad blood between NovaBUS and the MTA-NYC Transit because NovaBUS has shown that thier after market support isn't all that great. Especially when it comes down to warranties. So there is a great chance that after these last 4 Hybrids arrive on the property, that NovaBUS may not have another from the MTA for a while. However on the NovaBUS RTS Low Floor front, the MTA-NYC Bus is supposed to be the test platform for this bus because the MTA-NYC Bus wants a low floor hybrid coach other than the upcoming Orion VII, but the NovaBUS LFS is not geared for the Alternative Fuel market. So that is why NovaBUS is creating the low floor RTS, so that they can have a low floor bus to compete in the market on low floor alternative fuel front.
Hope this information helps you!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Does anyone know if NovaBUS will build the low-floor RTS at their Albany-area facility? Or will it be built at the RTS facility in Roswell, NM.
If the low-floor RTS is a New York State product, then NYCT might start feeling pressure from the politicians to mend the rift. Otherwise, the NY-built Orion VII might have a clear shot at unseating the RTS as The Bus in the Big Apple.
Jim
Well as of right now, the Low Floor RTS Demo, which is already built, was manufactured at Roswell, but I could see it being built in Schenectady due to the high demand at Roswell for the RTS-06 and the RTS-WFD lines. I will call NovaBUS today and see what the dillio is!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
More questions re this topic:
What can and should be done to repair the NYCT/NovaBus relationship?
Considering the relatively higher cost of building a hybrid bus compared to a diesel or even a CNG/LNG bus, would NYCT not totally rule out buying clean diesel buses in the future?
And about how much longer before we finally see what the new Orion VII will look like?
BTW, your answer to our original post was very much helpful and appreciated. Thanks!
To Answer Question 1.....
All NovaBUS has to do is to show they actual can live up to there high quality after market support that they advertise.
To Answer Question 2.....
Even if they wanted to they can't, they a bound by the state goverment (PATAKI) to buy nothing but clean fuel buses, as planned Manhattanville and Colieseum are the next two CNG depots, the DOB is not in favor of Compressed Natural Gas, so Hybrid is the next option.
To Answer Question 3.....
And from what I understand, the first Orion VII should hit the property in the Summer or Early Fall.
Hope this information helps you!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I would imagine that it's not so much an issue with Nova not living up to its previous after-sale suppoert, but the integration of the Prevost and Nova service and support departments into one office. Prevost never had to handle the volume that the RTS did under any of its manufacturers. Prevost/Nova is indirectly responsible for every RTS still on the road - that's the price paid for purchasing the design. Prevost doesn't have that number of vehicles on the road.
Why is it that the MTA and Long Island Bus don't come up with Express bus routes from Long Island into Manhattan. It would be nice to have a choice other than the Long Island Railroad. I have to drive into Queens to take the subway.
People on Long Island want express bus service too!!!!
This is an excellent idea! Express buses from various points of Long Island to Manhattan, operated by either NYC Transit or LI bus would be beneficial for the following reasons:
1. Would alleviate overcrowding on some LIRR trains.
2. With express buses operating into Manhattan, it could provide some riders with a one-seat ride.
3. It could put pressure on the LIRR to provide better service.
That is my point exactly! If they created several routes along the north and south shores, Long Islanders could enjoy the same express bus service that NYC does.
A pricing structure similar to the LIRR, using zones could be implemented.
If I had the money I would buy/lease a few MCIs and start service myself.
Yeah a one seat ride from Sea Cliff to NYC, sounds like heaven!!
You have a big obstacle to psychologically get LI'ers to abandon their cars.
Currently Suffolk County subsidizes a route called the Suffolk Clipper that goes from, I think, Exit 63 Park & Ride, stops in the Hauppauge Industrial Park, and then gets back on the LIE down to Exit 49 and some of the office parks on Route 110. The fare is $ 1.50 each way and the operator (Harran Coachways) supplies brand new Prevost H3-45's and yet they are barely averaging 10 passengers per run.
About 20 years ago Harran on its own ran a commuter bus from somewhere on LI into 3rd Ave and 42nd Street. Not anymore.
About 20 years ago Alert Coach ran a service from Exit 68 (with intermediate stops) into Main St./Roosevelt Avenue in Flushing. It failed because of a lack of advertising, poor service and other problems. I sometimes was the only passenger.
Another obstacle is that in bad weather such as today's there is a perception that the railroad will get through snow storms much better and quicker than the bus.
Perhaps a way to start implementing your idea would be to have Hampton Jitney and Sunrise Coach make pickups at some of the park & rides along the LIE on their runs from the North & South Forks into NYC.
Oh why can't we be more like New Jersey???
Actually, LI is very much like New Jersey. Express buses in NJ exist for the most part in areas where there is no rail service to NYC. Once the Midtown Direct opened, the express bus company (I believe it was Lakeland) serving that area met an ugly death. Most observers forecast a similar demise for DeCamp once the Montclair connection opens.
LI doesn't have express bus service because the LIRR covers the island much better than NJT rail service covers NJ.
Have to disagree here for 1 reason: THE LIE! Do you know how long it'd take to go from-let's say Hicksville-34th and 6th Ave? I'd say at least 90 minutes-especially at rush hour. It's backed up from there-Queens Blvd most mornings. While on the Q88 I see BOTH WAYS backed up BUT most of it is due to the everlasting construction. Sorry guys I don't agree here. LI Bus has enough problems to deal with now with their junky buses. John knows.
Q88#3950Gary
Can you say Cummins???
Yeah I totally agree!!!
From a time standpoint, it would be extremely difficult for any express bus from Long Island to compete with the Long Island Railroad. And the concentration of residents in single family homes in Nassau County versus apartments in New York City doesn't provide the necessary critical mass for passengers for such express service.
Areas like Great Neck Plaza have many apartments and a more concentrated population. Since it is in western Nassau county, the ride wouldn't be much longer than from eastern Queens. Of course GN Plaza is close to the LIRR so many residents just opt for that.
But we really could use it from Sea Cliff. It takes over an hour from the Sea Cliff train station to Penn. An express bus couldn't be that much longer. You have a bus making stops every 1/4 mile through Glen Cove, Sea Cliff, and Roslyn and then onto the LIE and into Midtown.
Another point: IMAGINE an Express LI Bus on a day like today to get from Hicksville-Manhattan. A VERY LONG TRIP INDEED!
N20#329Gary
Well a Cummins sure wouldn't be able to make the trip. Probably would break down on the LIE.
Yeah I keep forgetting NJ has better highways than Long Island, which is why NJ has express bus service and we don't.
[NJ has better highways than Long Island, which is why NJ has express bus service and we don't.]
Listen to the radio traffic reports during the rush hour. I'm not sure NJ has better highways than Long Island.
There are several reasons NJ has lots of passengers using express bus service to NY City. NJ Transit train service is not as widespread as Long Island Railroad service. NJ Buses do not have to travel in NY City itself to get there. The Port Authority Bus Terminal provides a convenient drop off/pick up point, aided greatly by the bus lane into the Lincoln Tunnel in the AM rush. Driving a car from NJ is less of an option than from Long Island, because of very limited access (the Holland or Lincoln Tunnels, or the GW Bridge). I'm sure there are other reasons.
Another problem for the buses is the commuting patterns of Long Island Residents. There are many industrial/office parks along the Expressway. Hauppague, Melville, Jericho and Manhasset/Great Neck come readily to mind.
When surburbia blossomed in the 50's and 60's most of the commutation was from Nassau and Suffolk into New York City. Today, while there is still some commutation from N-S into NYC much of the travel is from one part of the island to another part. Someone in Medford might get on the LIE and get off in Hauupauge, another person continue to Melville, while a person in Hauppauge may go to Melville or Jericho. I don't think that commutation into the city has grown as much as the Island's working population. Therefore I don't know how much demand there would be for the service, especially since the LIRR, with all its problems, is usually faster.
An interesting idea & nice discussion by the others here, but I don't see LI Bus doing it because Express service looses more money then local. LI Bus is haveing enough trouble making ends meet without taking this on ... but maybe some day, especially to/from areas where the concentration of folks is high & LIRR service isn't the greatest.
Mr t__:^)
Guys,
Saw ex MTA 4186 on the road this morning humming along on Interstate 195 in service on East Providence rt# 33 heading into downtown Providence. The bus was decked out like new in latest classy RIPTA color scheme, and other than a few stray yellow dots at the bottom of its front destination sign, it looked great.
NOW, is this bus junk in disguise, OR do we give plenty of praise to the MTA mechanics for keeping it in good condition, OR salute the Providence maintenance staff for a quick rehab???!!!
Also, there have been only about 5 Volvos left in service for the last year or so--usually in rush hour service only. Since the original 55 were unique and the only ones in existence, it is a shame no museum wants one for preservation.
Best to all from Prov RI,
(an ex New Yorker)
[Also, there have been only about 5 Volvos left in service for the last year or so--usually in rush hour service only. Since the original 55 were unique and the only ones in existence, it is a shame no museum wants one for preservation.]
There were only 55 of them? I thought there were a few more, but I guess I was wrong.
Actually, SEPTA is restoring a 40-ft Volvo which was built to RIPTA specs (I have mentioned this in previous posts). SEPTA #8590 - a 1985 model - was retired in 1998 (give or take a year) after spending it's entire life at Allegheny, where it's sister articulated units (which were built in 1984 and retired last year after the Neoplans arrived) operated out of. As I recall, #8590 only saw service on the 9 and 27 routes in the Roxborough/Manayunk area.
8590 has the new top ribbon paint scheme, and is presently stored at Berridge/Wyoming shops in North Philadelphia.
thanks for your info ctrabs...........the Volvos were numbered 8501-8555........had alot of pep but looked too boxy........started with cloth roll signs and then outfitted with dot matrix sign boxes ...........anyone know what depot or area 4186 or 4493 was assigned to??
It's good that the MTAs older fleet has found a new home in Providence. I was down there in October and found mostly the '90, '92 and 98 RTSs down there, along with the usual fleet of '88 Neoplans.
Is RIPTA planning to renumber the old NYCTA RTSs into a new numbering scheme, or will they keep the old #s?
The old numbers are staying; that's what makes the NYCT buses stick out from the rest. That, and the flat rear doors; RIPTA RTSs have flush doors.
I saw two of them in service this weekend (I wrote down the numbers, but left my notes at home :( ). When I saw 4186 repainted in late December/early January, it looked brand new; it already looks like hell. Why does RIPTA have such a problem keeping engine covers closed?
Also, some things have moved around in the yard. Only 3 NYCT buses remain there, and they have turned around; with them against the fence is the partially dismantled 9200 RTS with the Roger Williams Park mural (?) on it. I didn't see any Volvos out on the road; lots of them are still in the yard, and virtually all of them look better than the rapidly disintegrating Neoplans.
I did catch one repainted Neoplan, with its original taillights, heading downtown; I repeat, what happened to the Neos and Volvos with LED taillights? Some repainted 92xxs are showing up, and the repainted 90xxs seem to have vanished; no sign of the 99xx 30-footers, either.
RIPTA42Hopetunnel. You have a nice web site. Also how's the Ex MTA NYC transit GM RTS doing? Do these buses still have the push tape rear door? Did these buses get repainted into RIPTA New paint job on these buses? Like the 1998 Nova RTS paint job on the bus. Do you have a photo of these buses when painted into new paint job?
Dominick Bermudez.
Thanks; it still needs some work, but I'm going for quantity over quality until I have some time to polish it up. I haven't actually ridden any of the ex-NY buses, but I believe the interior is unchanged, and, as I said in the last post, they have flat rear doors and are in the new RIPTA colors. They're starting to look like hell.
BTW, I now have my notes at hand. 4186 was OOS on Roosevelt Ave in Pawtucket, laying over between runs, and I caught 4493 on the 22 at Weybosset & Chestnut Sts downtown Providence. 4384 was in the yard in RIPTA colors. Two of the three remaining MTA buses still in NYCT colors are 4368 and 4473; I didn't get a number off the third. The repainted Neo was 8851. Also, Providence FD New Look #7101 is ex-7016, a 1970 T6H4521. I have pictures, but they're not developed yet.
My pictures of ex-NYCT 4186, 4384, and 4493 in RIPTA colors from 2/10 are finally up; also, some shots of 4186 and 4136 are up at Trevor Logan's site.
BTW, Trevor, nice to see a RIPTA Neoplan as your new featured bus! :)
RIPTA42HopeTunnel. Nice web site you have there. Also the exMTA RTS's look nice with that paint job on that bus. I wonder if the rear door is still Push Tape type Rear door? Did any RIPTA Neoplans get repainted yet?
Dominick Bermudez.
Neoplan AN440#8805
Thanks RIPTA42!!!
Trevor
www.transitalk.com
I am looking to put together a regional transit information site. Any ideas on special features that I should consider?
...there's an commercial for a new brand of Snickers that debuted during the Super Bowl, and still runs. It involves a street hawker selling dolls that say things like "Don't go there" and other annoying sayings. People buy these dolls and then stomp on them.
Anyway, it looks as though that commercial was shot in Jersey City, possibly in the Exchange Place, as several NJT Novas roll by (actually 2 NJT Novas and a Montgomery & Westside IBOA Nova). There's also a very brief shot of what looks like a Hudson Bergen LRV, but I'm not 100% sure. In another shot, a sign is shown in the background - it's not clear what it says, but it looks like it says "Exchange Place".
Has anyone else seen these ads?
Yes, this commercial was taped at the Exchange Place Transit Center. And yes, that was 2 NJT Novas and 1 M&W Nova that you saw!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I was going to post on that commercial with the NJT bus going by and the HBLR going by also, I know that it is on the waterfront and that it says "Exchange Place" in the backround.
Mike
"Mr Mass Transit" As my best friends call me
It's snow in Sea Cliff again. Roads are barely plowed and I gotta get some chinese food. So I walk (in the street, since sidewalks aren't shoveled). Going back, a friendly soul offers me a lift back. Then you won't believe what happens next.
She lets me out across the street and I proceed to cross. It is snowing heavily at the time.
A car has to stop, and a village official in a SUV starts yelling at me (he has a village emblem on his vehicle).
He says "what the hell are you doing crossing the street, why don't you watch the hell where you're going!". Then he says "you're gonna get killed, what the hell is wrong with you?".
Then I can't take this barrage anymore, and say to him "it's people like you who don't care". We yell at eachother and he drives away.
It's a small street, through a downtown area. I am careful crossing the street, and cars should stop for pedestrians.
And of course nobody shovels their sidewalks. This town is hell to be without a car.
I should've taken the bus. The N21 was running and mostly empty, and it has been re-routed right down my street! So far I've seen a Cummins and a newer Series 50 bus going down my street. Yeah I wish I had a camera. I guess they couldn't do the regular route because the end of Glen ave is very windy and hilly, must be slippery as hell.
I'm goin' to village hall tomorrow and giving them a piece of my mind about what it's like be a pedestrian in Sea Cliff.
[I am careful crossing the street, and cars should stop for pedestrians.]
Were you crossing the street at a marked crosswalk calling for cars to stop for pedestrians? Or was the driver in the car that had to watch out for you correct? In most places, if you are careful in crossing the street, there would be no need for a car to stop; if a car needs to stop, you probably shouldn't have been crossing just then.
There are no crosswalks or stop signs in downtown Sea Cliff. Because of this, it can be hard to cross the street. And it can be a busy street, where cars do have to stop. They usually do. I just had a rude village official who just felt being nasty. No doubt about it I'm gonna complain tomorrow.
Also they have been routing the N21 bus down Sea Cliff ave tonight, just saw the last bus into Glen Cove pass through. I sure wish the N21 would run down here on a permanent basis, since this is more of the "main" street here than Glen.
Wouldn't suprise me if Sea Cliff village is keeping the N21 relegated to Glen ave. Something sounds fishy there.
They'd have to alienate a few parking spaces for cars to make bus stops, then you have to deal with people complaining about waiting behind buses. And Sea Cliff ave is alot straighter and more level than Glen. It's a very corrupt village, what can I say. Indeed, nothing does make sense in this one square mile of insanity they call Sea Cliff.
Yeah, these people with these SUVs think their %$@#$ doesn't stink! I drive from Suffolk into Queens(hate that borough)every day.They never signal when changing lanes,more often than not, blow stop signs and red lights and are more aggressive during inclement weather.
And this was a village official (emblem on side of SUV)! He should've known better!
I Tell You Something.
If You Do That In NYC. This Happin Near By My APT Bulding
In Kew Gardens,Queens. Alot of people in Kew Gardens Do This.
The Street That I Live On. 83 Ave. People always Do this when there's no car comming even when's a car comming even A Green Line Bus Too.
It A NYPD Cop Saw you doing that. You Get A Fine for Doing that.
The snowstorm that is dumping lots of snow over much of Southern New England made quite a mess of the PM rush hour this afternoon.Most roads and highways up this way were pretty much at a standstill. Just about all LRTA buses weren't on schedule, some trips were missed. But the 2:30PM trip today on Lowell (MA) Regional Transit Authority's Route 19 (Lowell- Burlington Mall/Lahey Clinic) is one for the record books!!
The bus (9401, a 1994 Gillig Phantom 30 ft) left Downtown Lowell on time at 2:30. Heavy snow was falling, roads poor, traffic piling up as folks were heading home early due to the storm. The trip on a normal day takes 50 minutes one way. The inbound trip was to leave at 3:30. At 3:30, this bus was just turning onto Crosby Drive in Bedford (approx. a 1/2 mile or so long long). It took the bus over 2 hours to travel the length of this road!! He arrived at the end of the line at Lahey Clinic in Burlington at 6:23 PM. That's 3 hours, 53 minutes one way!! The dispatcher had him wait to start the inbound at 6:30. As I post this, he is still inbound, having detoured onto Route 3 to head into Lowell to make some time. He should arrive in Downtown Lowell just after 9PM. He has 2 passengers on board as well. By the way, this driver would have done the 4:30 outbound Route 19,5:30 inbound, and usually is back in the garage around 6:30. And the 2 passengers will no doubt arrive safely downtown!! A fine job, a patient professional !!
Any one else have any such stories they have heard? Any of the bus drivers on this list experience such a long round trip??
Mark Watson
Ok, this post isn't NYC related, but I want info:
What's up with the new MCI J4500 bus? It seems from the picture a slightly modified E4500, but the description somewhat implies it's less luxurious. I'm guessing E-exterior, D-interior. What will the porpose of this coach be?
One day, while having fun with my map program, I looked at a map of NYC and came up with a ridiculously long and fanciful route called the X67-LI Express. It would start in souther Manhattan near Battery Park and go through Greenwich Vullage via the finacial district, up 8th Ave. down W. 34th, up Park Ave. then onto 57th street and hit the LIE out to those LI suburbs. There was an even longer version that went through Queens via Jamaica Ave. and Hillside Ave. It was quite a route. Too bad it'd never be done. It'd use good old SE Queens equipment too.
X67 PA1767-Long Island Express/Great Neck
X67 4010-LI Express/Great Neck/Via SE Queens/Jamaica Ave/Hillside Ave.
As long as it aint one of those lousy Cummins Orions it'll be alright!! Actually any ride longer than 90 minutes in an Orion would be torture anyway.
Orions would never run on the ultra glamorous X67! It'd be a slap in the face!
Well - it definitely wouldn't be an RTS as I'm sure it would be a MSBA (LI Bus) route. I wonder how many (if any) folks would abandone their LIRR trains for a lower Manhattan to Long Island express bus.. I know I wouldn't.
Wayne
That is a great idea. I would even add a route down Merrick Ave. too. The express buses are not meant to take cutomers away from the LIRR but to provide a one seat commute to those who don't live near a LIRR station.
Contrary to popular belief, buses are cool. Very cool. The stars of such classic movies as Ride, Speed, and Get on the Bus, were well, buses. Robert De Niro drove some buses in the epic classic A Bronx Tale and they've done numerous cameos in many other movies.
Lauryn Hill used a GMC New Look and the always glamorous RTS in her video That Thing (Doo Wop). It was really wierd they'd use two buses because NYC is known more for their subways and cabs.
In Houston, a whole ghetto is known for the bus that runs through it, the 44-Acres Homes Limited. The youth there proudly show off this heritage by throwing up the 44. I dream of the day that I go to an NYC borough and see the ghetto youth throwing up the Q46, Q88, or the X68. Even the affluent SI youth can get into it by throwing up the S79!
Buses in pop culture are here to stay and will continue to make great contributions in that area.
Buses Most Seen in Movies:
GM New Look (there used to be so many)
GMC RTS (Becuase they're dominant, beautiful, and a symbol of ghettos across America)
Favorite Movie Bus Moments:
When the bus driver did donuts in a GM New Look in this movie starring Will Friedel (sp?)
When Dennis Hopper blew up that Flxible Metro in Speed. What was so funny is that it just kept on rolling.
No, it's not the name of a Seattle based grunge rock band. Last night while working the M31 I spotted two articulateds assigned to the M79 with chains affixed to their rear tires. I guess the TA is experimenting to see if these chains will help correct some of the nast tendencies the artics tend to exhibit in snowy conditions. The experiment was apparently limited to the M79 since I did not notice any affixed to M86 artics or on BX12 artics I spotted while driving home.
Last month I saw some artics on the M23 w/chains.
its a little off topic but if you get off the artic at 23rd and 6th you will find a club for people who like to be in chains.LOL.
LOL! Knowing the TA, that's probably where they buy the chains!
Yes, I saw the artics in chains also. One passed by on tv when they had a reporter from Channel 2 on a Manhattan street during the snowstorm a few days ago.
Is there any reason for the light that tells you what type of fare is paid on NYC Buses? Whenever I ride I always wonder about that? Is it just for the nosey people or does it have a real reason?
Thanks
Mike
"Mr Mass Transit" As I sit and stare at the different color lights
I think it's mostly for the noisy folks sitting down who think that a lot of folks get on for free.
Mr t__:^)
Like me. PASS!
It's called a "Beakie Box". Its purpose is to allow a transit supervisor to monitor the fares paid, and to monitor that the bus operator collects the proper fare from intending customers. Many "Beakies" will give a "check ride" to an operator and monitor the fares as part of the observation.
Never knew that. Thanx QVBO.
Question: When a beakie boards, does he use a regular metrocard or a token? Don't tell me that they use their pass!
zman179 writes:
"Never knew that. Thanx QVBO.
Question: When a beakie boards, does he use a regular metrocard or a token? Don't tell me that they use their pass!"
You're welcome :-)
Now the answer to your question has a few answers.
If the ride is a simple anniversary check ride, the supervisor will dip a pass and observe the ride. At the end of the route (or when the supervisor has seen enough), they will usually approach the operator and inform as to the situation. This is SOP.
If the ride is a result of customer complaints (yes, your complaints are investigated, although not to this degree unless the situation warrannts such), the beakie may either dip a pass, deposit a token, insert a metrocard, short-drop the fare, farebeat, or hand the operator a valid or otherwise senior/disabled block ticket, and have a seat. Usually in the third row of forward facing seats on the aisle so as to observe signaling, hand motions, mirror observance and the like.
So, if one day, your usual driver has both hands on the wheel, rather than one hanging on the grab bar, is making every announcement, kneeling the bus everywhere, driving unusually slowly, and is kinder than kind, that's a red flag the operator suspects a beakie on board :-)
By-the-way, the job of the beakie is to aid in the termination of an operator, whereas the job of the supervisor on an anniversary check ride is simply a routine observation.
That's why we don't let you on or off outside bus stops, or at a red light even if stopped. Simply because it's a blatant and direct violation of the rules, and we never *really* know who is sitting behind us. That "nice bus driver" who let you on or off outside a bus stop yesterday could quite possibly be fighting to keep his/her job today.
We're just doing our jobs. Sometimes our job includes working to keep our jobs. It's nothing personal. :-)
Sometimes the management back at the depot is nice to the BO ...
Yesterday I got a call from the Dispatcher that a female BO dropped her anckle chain in the farebox ... no she wasn't doing something kinky, she had it off and opps there it went.
Anyhow, she wanted to come back to the depot but I was going home in 45 minutes, so told the Dispatcher that we would grab the Cash Box from her bus when she was done for the day(can't do that at TA), empty the contents the next morning & give her the chain sometime that day. Five minutes later she was outside my door.
After I returned her chain I informed the Dispatcher who didn't know she was given permission to leave her route ... now you only have to meet her once to know why the Starter let her make the trip back to the depot ... she's a imposing woman who doesn't hesitate to speak her mind, but realy nice when you get to know her. Anyhow she was very appreciative of the SERVICE provided.
Mr t__:^)
No busses wanted here
Peace,
ANDEE
Interesting article right in my back yard ... thanks Andee for the link.
BTW, I passed it on internally ... company got it's moneys worth for this connection today !
Mr t__:^)
If you have alot of money and a big mouth, it seems you can get anything done. :-(
Excellent point. George Carlin said it best: "Try to build a halfway house, or a home for retarded people to work...NOT IN MY BACK YARD! They don't complain about military bases. They seem to like those. Why? JOBS. SELF INTEREST."
And another quote, especially for those Malba Park residents who opposed the Q14: "When someone tries to make a positive change, it doesn't take much for someone to make it illegal."
As I was traveling down the snow covered street today, I just had a thought. If LTS buses couldn't really handle the plows, how about an LTS plow system where the streets on the bus routes were plowed before the bus had to go through it? So, i was just wondering, do any real transit systems have that sort of thing? I know that for cities the city probably does that way before hand, but I guess it would still be a good thing for those small streets that are covered with snow and a bus has to battle through it.
Up here in Utica, NY All streets, big or small, are plowed that UTA routes pass down. That's 16 routes that cris-cross the city. So basically, most streets are plowed, but not all, including my street!
B61 Leonard
Today.
I Went On A Green Line Bus GM RTS 614 On the Q10.
The Driver Said To Me. You Have Yoohoo and you did not bring any for us. So I Sat Down and When It Was Time For Me To Get Off The BUS at
82 RD. I press the tape and the bell was not working. so I Yell "Getting Off" But The Bus Driver Was Talking To The Passenger Sitting Near The Font DOOR of the bus. The Bus Pass By My Stop. The 82 RD Stop that's where I get off to go home Most of the Time.
I Yell Again "Getting Off" And The Driver Said."Wait A Minute" But I Yell Again "The Bell Is Not Working and you pass by my Stop"
So The Driver Let Me Off at 82 Ave When The Bus Stop at the Trafic Light and I Got Off. Boy That Was A Stupid Driver all right.
Well, you should've gone to the front of the bus where the driver is. That's what most people do for SEPTA.
I Use The Rear Door Alot. The Only Time I Exit In The Front is when the Rear Door Is Broken. But That Guy Is Stupid Anyway. But I Saw The Same Bus With The Stupid Guy I Went On. Going Up 83 Ave At 4:30 PM On The Q10. 83 Ave Is Where I Live.
Can you PLEASE type a NORMAL sentence without Capitalizing Every Word? It's impossible to read your messages!
-Hank
WHAT you talking about I read his message and all words are NOT capitalized...
Peace,
ANDEE
You need to Read It Again. The first letter of nearly every word in his post is capitalized.
-Hank
I always go out the back door (of course I usually ride this small suburban route) unless there are a lot of people getting off. This way the driver won't miss me and I won't miss my stop. Anyway, i agreee with you that the driver is foolish. I hate it when they talk to passengers and miss your stop. For those of you who ride SEPTA's route 100, there is this guy who purposely turns the mirror out (I saw him do it myself. Then he can't see you when you walk up, and if you don't pay your fare or walk up normally, he misses your stop. This happened to me once when I was going to Villanova, and he took me all the way to Radnor, which is a good distance away. It was already a long walk from Villanova to where I was going, but I had to walk all the way from the Radnor stop to the place, and it took forever.
>>>...there is this guy who purposely turns the mirror out <<<
UMMM...did you ever think that maybe he does this TO SEE TRAFFIC.
Peace,
ANDEE
Today.
I went on a MTA NYC transit Nova RTS 9500 on the M14 this morning.
The bus driver was talking to a passenger and look at the passenger and the driver stop short. One passenger almost fell to the floor of the bus.Now that's bad.
Dominick Bermudez.
If you had to walk that far. Just next time just wait for the SEPTA Route 100 to take you back to Villanova from Radnor.
That's what you should have done.
Dominick Bermudez.
Well, I actually should've, but I was quite impatient and just decided to walk from there. Besides, I don't really mind the walk. It's jsut that it took longer and I had to get to my piano lesson.
Well, one time I was riding the 105 home and I went up to the front after ringing the bell, and the lady passed my stop. However, she asked where I wanted to get off, so i said at the traffic light. It was a new one and wasn't an official stop. When we stopped behind a line of cars she just let me out there. At least it was a closer walk anyway.
Uhhhhhh, okay. The guy was kidding around first of all and he had to follow procedure with the stops. Simple as that.
If the bell was not working, that is not the operator's fault, unless he had it turned off which I doubt. I'm quite sure he did not here you if you yelled from the back because that bus you were on is old and probably rattles alot. If he hit a bump and there was a loud rattle at the same time you yelled, he will most likely not hear you. He sounds like a nice operator, from the way you mentioned that he joked about the yoohoo. He could have told you, "no drinks on the bus so get rid of it or get off". Also, when you operate a bus 8 or more hours a day, you tend to pass a stop or two every now and then even when the bell is working. Sometimes you just don't here the bell, again mostly because of the rattles and other noises. Even with the bell working, I pass stops also from time to time and I don't feel I'm stupid. We're all human and make mistakes. So let up with the name calling and give the bus operator a break. And next time, bring him a yoohoo.
BIG AL
The question I have is which tape did you press. I noted you were on #614. Those old buses have three kinds of tape. The tape that is above the rear doors activates a buzzer. The tape on the rear doors themselves supposedly activates some kind of door opening system that uses air. All the other tapes sound the bell. When you press and hold the buzzer tape, the buzzer keeps buzzing until you release the tape. Maybe what you could do is sound the buzzer until the bus stops. It might annoy the driver, but you wanted to get off anyway. I was once on a Q29 and some kids were ringing the bell. They were doing it constantly in rapid-fire fashion. When the bus stopped at Dry Harbor and Woodhaven, the driver went back to the kids and told them to get out and walk. That's why now the tape systems allow the bell to ring exactly one time. Older buses, like those 1985-7 GMC RTS-04/06 buses that Green, Triboro and Jamaica have still don't have it.
I would just like to know why was the S44,59,74 & 78 local buses moved to Castleton Depot.
Finally,I have been hearing & reading about it that there might a new Brooklyn to College of SI bus route being proposed,is this true & if if so, what is the proposed route descipition & when will this service begin.
Mr Follo whatever,,nice hearing from you again,after a long hiatus
The College to Brookyn. has been an idea .around for a few years
BTW ,,your style of writing and focusing on Staten Island is an obvious trademark..dont change your name everytime you post,,please
Welcome back, Follo.
When we know the answers, you will. Patience is a virtue.
Follo,
the x21 and x22 are still in design phase//
I dont know who is saying these routes are finalized---they are not .have not gone before the board
And please use your correct name when posting!!!!
Again, I am NOT this Follo guy, so please stop bringing up Follo when you post a message that I post up on bustalk.
Some chinese bus manufacturer tried to carbon copy the Flxible design after Flxible was so generous to send them a bus some years back.
http://www.cjkcjt.com/
There is the link to the site, it's enough to make you cry!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
From info I have on it there was a marketing agreement that allowed this back when GAC owned them. Originally the buses were supposed to an export model made in the U.S. but somewhere along the line they decided to allow the manufacture of the buses over there using the Flxible name prior to Flxible operations in the U.S. going under.
Got any extra Kleenex? I just may join you...
They're not really that bad. Except maybe that RTS knock-off. Who'd ever thought Flxible would steal the RTS design!? Ha ha ha ha ha ha. The rest of them are decent, except the rear ends have a case of Ugly Asian Car Syndrome from the early 80s.
I think it's wonderful that the Flxible design still continues. Whether it's made in Hong Kong or a haystack, it still looks good to me.
From the pictures I've seen, while it looks a bit funky with those Old Look-style rear doors, it still looks basically like a Flx Metro. Also, the company offers a low-floor version, and it looks just like an 870 or Metro, and no major ugly design changes...kudos to them for that. As for how they got the licensing for the Flxible name and logo, that is still a mystery to me...
-Fred Donaher
I'm glad they make 'em too. I only rag on Flxibles to annoy Trevor and possibly Wayne Johnson. They marveled at the sight of an RTS being blown up. I didn't like that. Not at all. So, I laughed at the sight of everyones favorite Flxible product (the 870) turning into a rolling ball of flame and rust. Flxibles are decent. Nothing more, nothing less. I'll give them that.
I understand your motive. However, I would like to make a motion to bury the hatchet so we don't have an all-out pissing contest. Can't we all just get alo....no, wait, that saying is played. Anyway, even though the Flx is my favorite, I can appreciate both Flxibles and RTSes.
As can I. The Grumman 870/Metro-A Hybrids we had in Houston were my favorite buses up until their retirement in late 1997. I still miss them some three years later. But the RTS has taken their place as my favorite.
Hmm..Grumman/Metro hybrids! I'll bet these had the 92-Series as well? There were some of these in service in upstate NY that retired about that time....very neat buses!
I miss the 870s as well; ours were retired in 1994 and replaced with Series 50-powered Gilligs. Fortunately we still have one of the Grummans preserved in our museum; at the moment, we are currently restoring it to the original 1979 paint scheme. I can't wait to show off pics of the finished product; I remember when these first rolled into town when I was two years old. I thought they were the neatest thing I had ever seen! I grew up with these and my all-time favorites, the 1976 Flxible New Look, and one of them is part of our museum and will hopefully be restored one day as well.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
It doesn't annoy me, I'm better than that to let something so trivial annoy me.
I can channel that negativity into something positive.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Actually, I don't think the Chinese Flxible looks bad at all. I love those folding rear doors!
Interestingly, the Flxible name has the ® symbol, so there must be some kind of official agreement to use the name and designs.
And for a bus manufacturer, their website is kind of cool!
Jim
I don't know, maybe I can't apprieciate what they are doing becuase from childhood, I've feel in love with the original 870 and METRO ADB design. I just can't accept a carbon copy whether Flxible has a agreement with them or not.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Trevor, I have felt the same way about that design ever since I was two years old. And that's why I like the fact that it continues in some form halfway around the world. Cheesy or not, it's great to see a new Flxible in some form. If only we could still have the real thing here in the States...
-Fred
I can't get into their website; can anyone help me?
Come to think of it, those old-style rear doors do add a different flair to the bus....it just looks odd at first on such a still-modern design.
I'd like to see TAs in the States start buying these...even though it's not the best thing for the local economy, I'd love to see new Flxibles continue to roll into the streets of DC, and I'm sure at least one of you Flx fans can agree with me! Ah, if only Universal Coach would blow the dust off those castings and start cranking out more Metros...
Try this URL for them:
http://www.cjkcjt.com/en/intro.htm
That's the english version of the page and doesn't require the Active-X to be turned on in your browser.
The only problem I have with it is that it doesn't have that Flxible "I mean business" look
The Chinese Flxible has me wondering ... did any U.S. properties order the Grumman 870 or Flxible Metro with wide rear doors? I've never seen any - all the 870/Metro buses I've seen have the narrow rear doors.
Jim
NEVER!
That was a chinese Flxible design, However the some New Looks came with wide dual stream back doors. And Chicago's Metro's had the only known slide-glide front entrance doors.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
That would have been a great design innovation for people like me who have considered buying one for storage and shop use. That way, I could load wider objects much easier. The fact that RTSes have a wide rear door made me consider one, but...nah, I still want a Flx.
-Fred
Yeah - that was a pretty lame attempt.
Wayne
Why all the uproar? Nobody complained that GMC no longer maufactures the RTS, and another (actually 2) company started building them. They're still RTS's. And now some overseas company is building the Flxible Metro. They're still being built, and there is hope that they may be coming back. Now I wish some railcar manufacturer started producing the Almond Joys again.
I think the uproar is that China changed the Flxible design so that it's only recognizable from the front and maybe the back.
That maybe true, but as a customer, you can always have the bus built to your specifications, e.g. Chicago. Their buses always seem to be custom built. But I do like the "Fishbowl" blinker doors on the front.
That's one improvement.
You can compare this to the RTS, when the RTS changed over manufacturers for the most part the RTS keept its original design with some minor changes and even a new model, the WFD, but the regular RTS is still being built. On the other hand the took the front and gave these Flxibles are horrible redesigned side and back.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I don't think they look all THAT bad, considering where they are at. They look a hell of a lot better than most of the other stuff over there......
I don't think you can compare the China Flxible with the RTS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when the RTS manufacturer changed from GM to TMC to Nova, it was basically a name change only. The RTS bus was still built in the same factory, probably by the same employees and probably according to the same plans. Pretty much the same thing for Grumman 870's and various owners' Flxible Metro's, although there were probably some design changes to correct deficiencies in the 870. Clearly, the Chinese Flxible is not built in the same factory by the same employees. Query, how much of the same plans are used?
From what I understand, Flxible sent a demo over there, so China Flxible had that to work from.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The demo went over in 1993. Here's the only picture of the demo I've been able to dredge up.
That is the same picture I have of it also. This bus was sent as a demo and was the starting point of a new agreement between Flxible of America and the new Flxible of China. One thing to keep in mind is that this demo was an american bus that was to show china what could be imported from this contry for their market. The buses that are being built now are adapted to the chinese market. I for one love the fact that the Flxible is alive and well in China. This is far from a disgrace to the Flxible name, we should look at this as a continuation of a legacy of fine buses. Remember things that work here in America are not supposed to be the best things for the rest of the world, just like people, diversity is nice!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
Transitworld.org
I really don't see anything wrong with it. Of course it has been changed some to fit the market overseas (same thing occurs when a company overseas decides to market a bus in the US) but overall it still looks pretty good. When I first heard about these Chinese Flxibles and researching them, my first thought was "at least they have good taste in buses".
My thinking is that if they are still being built in some form elsewhere, it opens the chances up a little more that one day they may start producing here again, albeit as another company and not as the Flxible Corp we all knew.
This would be great. And if they share the mechanicals of the original Flx designs, museums like ours would have extended parts accessibility, and TA's could hold on to theirs much longer!
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach
and Trolley Museum
Amen, brother! It's GREAT to see Flxible alive and well in our world. So what if it's different? We should all be more "flxible" about these things!
Forgot to mention that this unit was equipped with a Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine coupled to a Voith D863-ADR. She was shipped from Port Jersey I think in September of 1993 and would have arrived about 1 month later. This unit is a fine unit, I wonder where she is now?
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
TransitWorld.org
I agree, being the Americans gave up on such a fine piece of machinery, it is good to see that the finest work of art is in another part of the country living lively and serving people in another country. I am one who agrees that the Flxible should live on.
Peace,
Tone
TransitWorld.org
CAN I GET AN "AMEN"? RIGHT ON, MY FRIEND!
I don't think the new Flx looks half bad (except that hideous low-floor with the pointed nose); the taillights look more Flxible-ish than the LED things on the Metro Ds. I agree that the sides look totally wrong; like the Metro D, it doesn't have the trademark Flxible windows (was the demo sent to China a D? It's hard to tell in the picture), and the New Look rear door looks a bit out of place. The fact that they make a Flx double decker more than makes up for any shortcoming! I guess the real test would be in the sound and the ride, though; anyone going to China in the near future?
I actually don't like the Nova RTS as much as the GM and TMC models. The triangle rear windows looks much better than the squared-off look of the Novas, and the street level exhaust sounds much better than the roof level (did the exhaust change happen when Nova took over production, or before/after?). And the slopeback beats 'em all! :)
I didn't realize the low floor had a pointed nose; where is a pic of this thing? I must see it for myself, but it sounds ugly.
-Fred
I'm talking about the CJ6121GCHK, the first bus pictured on the page of all their models. I think it's the same one some others referred to as the "RTS clone," although it looks more like a Ford Transit or Aerostar minivan than an RTS!
The Flxible Metro D had windows that contributed well to the look of a Flxible bus, probably even better than the original Flxibles (I don't really like that smooth body window look). Maybe I'm jsut used to seeing the opening windows of the Metro Bs of the WMATA bus fleet. Of course, the Chinese Flxibles have windows that are absolutely not Flxible-Like.
I agree with you about the Nova RTSs. I think that TMC actually came up with the idea of the squared off look, rather than with the triangle. Also, I don't see how a street level exhaust pipe sounds different than a high exhaust pipe, unless you mayb refer to the TMC Citycruisers that had that hollow sound from the exhaust pipe, which was right next to the rear window.
The chinese Flxible's don't look right to me. Because.
1.The rear doors. Looks like GM Newlook rear doors.
2.The Windows. Doesen't look right.
3.The Fount Doors. Looks almost like the CTA Flxible's.Execpt the Fount doors are smaller than The CTA and Beeline and WMATA Flxible's.
Witch one you like better. The chinese Flxible's or the american Flxible's? I like the american Flxible's better.
Dominick Bermudez.
I prefer the American Flxibles, but if that's the closest we can get to a new Metro, then we should take what we can get should the opportunity arise.
-Fred
I associate the small oval windows with the Flxible, which the D doesn't have; other than that and the taillights, it's "Flxish." I totally agree that the sides of the Jiangsu Flxibles came out of nowhere.
Maybe I'm imagining it; it just seems like the roof level exhaust sounds more "truck-like" and louder than the older RTSs (and even Orions) with street level exhaust. I've never ridden a Citycruiser.
Almost all buses with top exhaust are loud. I remember Grumman Hybrid 1646 was so loud one day that I had to cover my ears. The new RTS do have very loud exhaust, but on the inside most sound like the RTS we've come to love.
Well, the only new RTSs I've actually been around were the ones in NY, and I don't really go there that often. Anyway, speaking Flxible-wise, the newer D's and E's were quite loud. Particularly the E. However, I just assumed it was the engine. Maybe it's the same with the NABIs on the SEPTA fleet, because they are basically louder than the Neo 40ft series buses.
The loudness of the Metro Ds and Es was probably due to the newly government-mandated 4-cycle engines. Unfortunately, by the time they were quieted down, Flxible was out of business.
Case in point for quietness; our 1994 Gilligs here in Roanoke, VA (Valley Metro) sound like overgrown lawnmowers taking off and can be heard many blocks away, while the 1997 and later Gilligs in Grand Rapids, MI (GRATA) were barely heard. Both had Series 50 mills in the back.
-Fred
... other than that and the taillights, it's "Flxish.
Unless you are talking about the different color arrangements of the lights, all Flxible ADB buses had the same kind of tailights. Also, the Flxible D (unless it started with the C) was the first one to have a straight back, rather than the slightly slanted back of the earlier models.
I mean the round LED lights, as opposed to the incandescent lights with carlike wraparound lenses.
Oh, that's just the option of the company, then. The WMATA had converted their Ds and Bs' rear lights into the round LED lights. Before that they were all the same old rectangular shape.
I HATE those stupid round lights on the back of a Flx Metro! Pardon the irony of this statement, but they made the American Flxes look like a cheap "Made in China" imitation.
I mean, come on, while you're hacking up that smooth design, why not finish off the screwup by putting large wire wheels on all four corners and planting a large gold-plated Edsel grille up front?
On second thought, just put a huge chrome sun visor over the destiniation sign, put on a white vinyl top complete with porthole-style covering for each and every window, a glob paint job, and a huge crown on the dashboard. Oh yeah, and large gangster-style whitewall tires and chrome mudflaps. There you go...MORE ways to screw up a beautifully sleek design.
With the exception of practical sliding side windows, that neat Dodge Ram grille thing at the front end, and tri-color taillights, I think the original Grumman 870 design should have continued unmolested in the looks department.
-Fred
Oh, OK; I didn't know the old lights were available on the Metro Ds.
I always preferred the slight slant the the straight back; I don't think Flxible did a lot of justice to the design by making it boxier.
Also, those small round taillights found on later models made them look like they rolled out of a South Park cartoon! I prefer the original flush wraparound taillight design; it was much sleeker-looking.
Another pet peeve is those tacky roof-mount A/C units that looked like faux CNG fuel cells. Yeech!
-Fred
Yeah..those Chinese windows are funky...they remind me of cafeteria lunch trays.
The Grumman 870 windows looked sleek, but lack the functionality of the Metro units, especially if the A/C goes out in the summertime.
A friend of mine liked the single-pane windows found on some Flxible New Looks, but I disagree there; I like the split design and functionality of the regular Flx New Look windows. Different people, different opinions.
-Fred
Join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYCBUSBLINDS
I will post all my bus service changes,,agenda.,detours ,,in that group..ONLY
Steve
where is this depot located?
It is on the west side of Banks Avenue, just north of the Long Island Railroad viaduct which, in turn, is about a block north of Merrick Road. Banks Avenue is one block west of North Centre Avenue and a few blocks west of the Rockville Centre LIRR Station. The depot is closed on weekends.
For historians, this was the depot and headquarters, prior to MSBA, for Bee Line, Inc., and its subsidiary, Rockville Centre Bus Corp. I don't know whether its other bus subsidiary, Utility Lines, Inc., ran out of this depot or one closer to the main Freeport-Babylon-Patchogue route that Utility ran.
By the way, the N4, N14, N15, N16, N17 and JFK Flyer all stop within walking distance of the depot.
Utility Lines didn't seem to operate out of the Rockville Centre depot. I used to ride their Montauk highway route all the time, and the LIRR right over the RVC depot all the time too.
I did live out in Bay Shore, and I was always under the impression that Utility Lines had a garage out in Patchogue, the eastern end of the route. They also used to run a route from East Islip up to Central Islip (along Carleton Avenue). That run used to get (almost always) bus #317, a TDH4512. When I lived in East Islip, I'd see it coming from the east in the early morning, empty, and then it worked the route up to CI.
Then I heard Utility Lines was actually based in Massapequa.
Anyone know for sure what was what with Utility Lines Inc.??? I only know the route they ran, and the bus fleet.....and it was just in recent years that they were a Bee Line subsidiary.
They had, in later years, mostly 35-foot GM fishbowls, but bus #321 was a TDH5302 that had a rear exit door, but it was covered with an advertising frame on the outside, and inside was just roped off all the time. The destination signs always read "Freeport" or "Patchogue" but in later years, buses 322-up were delivered and they said "19 Freeport" or "19 Patchogue". Nobody knew what that was all about until MSBA came in and took it all over, and the route becamse the N19 -- and later, the Babylon LIRR to Patchogue section became the S40 of Suffolk Transit.
Steve, I moved out to Nassau County (from Brooklyn) in 1955, and I'm pretty sure Utility Lines was a Bee Line subsidiary then. I've seen a picture of one of Bee Lines' old look 1947 model 30 footers in Utility's green and creme colors in the early 1950's. Also, I recollect the N19 route designation was one of the original Nassau County route numbers long before the MSBA takeover. The route numbers originated in bunches, depending on the operator (e.g., N1-N7 were Bee Line; N14 and N15 were Rockville Centre Bus; N17 was Semke; N19 was Utility; N21-N25 were Schenck; etc.). Most of the fishbowls in Utility's fleet did become MSBA buses.
If you take a bus or train to the RVC LIRR station, just walk west through the parking lots for about 3 blocks (Village Ave, then Centre Ave, then Banks.) You'll run directly into the depot. (If you run directly into a supermarket, then you just need to go under the tracks to the north side).
I've often read here that the depot is closed on weekends, but I often notice some activity there on both Saturdays and Sundays (I live nearby).
CG
To all
If anybody has old TA/Nassau/Westchester maps they wish to part with for a buck or two each let me know.
Also on teh look out for old bus world magazines. I need several to fill in some holes. Let me know what u have.
Thanks all
Again, I am NOT this Follo guy, so please stop accusing me. I just noticed about the S44,59,74 & 78 because of the Castleton stickers on it & I heard about this possible new Brooklyn to College of SI route through a article in the SI Advance before.
So once again, I am getting very angry for being accused that I am this Follo guy which I am not so please have some considering for me.
THat article was printed in 1994.
-Hank
could you please not post your message using ALL CAPS
Peace,
ANDEE
I didn't. And I haven't since at least 1991, unless I needed to. And I usually don't.
-Hank
Hello, I'm new to this board. I model & collect pix & plans of USA buses. I have been wanting to model the above Double Deckers used by the Fifth Ave. Coach & Chicago Motor Coach, 1930's to 50's. Have a small collection of exterior shots & some basic dimensions. Could use some help with getting Interior shots (up & down, all directions) and some decent plans, elevations & dimensions if possible. Will be willing to share what I have & reimbuse for any expenses. Also the locations where these surviving buses might be. Orange Empire has a burned out hulk. Thanks, Jim
So far, this week has been fun for me MTA wise. Monday morning had bus 4045-was ok just junky looking. Once all the snow came down-they shut down SJU so I got on bus 4501-pretty good unit. I was slippin and sliding on 4879 on the Q17-slow bus and a broken destination sign. While on that bus I saw 4878, 3967 and 3833 operating on the same route. Yesterday Had 3954 on the Q46-slow jerky ride but satisfactory enough to still be out on the Pike. Once I got out of school I got on the Q46 and was dozing off on 9368. Got off at Springfield Blvd the last stop. Then-from out of nowhere, a Q46 came the other way-but this was not your ordinary RTS Q46-It was Orion Suburban 611. I couldn't believe my eyes-was in complete shock to see her on the Pike. I got on 611-a very smooth and comfy ride to Queens Blvd. Then came today. Got off 5523 Q60 to help a blind friend of mine to get to the subway entrance at Union Tpke. where he can get to the other side-avoiding crossing the deadly blvd. Saw on the other side-612. For a second I thought it was a Q74. Then I saw it pick people up over there. I had to "obey" all the crossing rules because cops were all over the place. I missed her-oh well. But on the other side coming up-I saw an old-looking sign. I thought it was 4429. NOPE! It was 1852! This was the only QV 1982 RTS Suburban that I did NOT get to ride. I was like I got to ride this thing! Got on her-a rattly ride-slow pickup-when it slowed down it made a grinding sound just like 1819 did-and a Nova-type of number board. Also it smelled like burning smoke both inside and out. I got away from the bus when I got off at 179 ST and Union Tpke and I still smelled the smoke from her. I ran into Genovese to get a Poloroid. Then I rode 8366 Q46. While on her-I saw other suburbans there on the Pike-3818 and 3824. That's along with 612 and 1852. I hung around the SJU Stop and 612 came-with a Q46 sign-lol! A few minutes later-1852 came back-the smoke was coming out of her-idling. Don't go near her if you can-you'd get Carbon Monoxide poisoning. Sorry to say this but 1852 has to be condemned to death. She's definitely not only a health hazard for the people on the outside of the bus but also on the inside. IDK what I'll have on my way home today-an Orion Suburban again would be a treat. You will all know tomorrow because I'm without my computer at home because my modem burned out. Hope to get it back very soon. Till then I have to post from SJU.
Q46#611Gary
Q46#1852Gary
Q17#4879Gary
I Like Rideing The Q46. Most Of The Time I Take It To Lakeville RD So like that I Get To The Bowling Alley.
I Wish A Suburban Is On A 9:10AM Trip From Queens Blvd On Sunday On The Q46. Because I Never Saw A Suburban Running On Sunday In Queens. I Hope My Wish Comes Ture one Sunday This February.
Do Anybody Here Works For QV? If You Do. Ask Somebody to Put A Suburban on the 9:10 AM Trip On The Q46 From Queens Blvd To LIJ Hosepital on Sunday. Please.
Your bus leaves Kew Gardens at 9:12 to Lakeville Rd. / Long Island Jewish Hospital.
You're not likely to see anything other than 9300/4900 and 8300 bus series on a Sunday morning. Most drivers working on Sunday are fairly new, and don't get their choice of bus. You get whatever the dispatcher selects for you... and smile :-)
I Look At The Thing on the Timetable At The Bus Stop. It Says 9:10AM.
Did MTA Move The Times Up for The Q46? Also. What Bus Will Be Comming At 9:12AM Trip To Lakeville Rd this Sunday? Witch One anyway?
The Great Route For The New Drivers is The Q88. Also Witch Route The 600's Seres Orion5 Suburbans And The 7000's GM RTS Buses runs on Weekends?
Dominick Bermudez.
910...912....whats the difference??????
No 600s and no 7000s on weekends.......
Posted by Mike M on Thu Feb 8 16:46:23 2001, in response to In Re To Queens Village Bo(Re: Suburbans on the Q46-Mission Impossible?! NA!), posted by Orion5 #135 on Thu Feb 8 15:16:32 2001.
910...912....whats the difference??????
2 minutes? (you had to know that was coming!)
Anyway Domenick asked if the schedule changed. Yes it has. There are new timetables available on many buses. If you want to email me your home address, I will mail you one personally.
I don't know what particular bus you will see on Sunday. Sorry :-)
On Sundays, the order goes like this: 4900-9300-8300-43/44/4500-3900-600-3800-17/1800. 613 was on the Q2 on a Saturday once as BIG AL posted in the past. 2 Saturdays ago I saw 3978 on the Q46. All other buses seen were 4900s 9300s and some 8300s. That Saturday I rode 4903 on the Pike. As far as today is-I got to ride on 619. Pretty fast bus even though it was packed with SJU Students-like myself. Felt like I was in Staten Island with Orions and RTS in the same depot. Now only if we had MCI's.
Q46#619Gary
Actually the x68 is a long enough ride to warrant MCI's
At What Time a 600 seres Orion5 Suburbans runs on sunday's?
So like that I go on one on one sunday.
Dominick Bermudez.
At What Time a 600 seres Orion5 Suburbans runs on sunday's?
So like that I go on one on one sunday.Ok.
Dominick Bermudez.
Today. 9:25Am.
I Saw 3957 on the Q46 Heading to Kew Gardens at 188 St And the Pike.
As I was heading to lakeville Rd on 4918 on the Q46. I forgot to take a photo of 3957. Maybe next time. I going back to the pike tonight.
I post more later. Opps I better go right now I going to the Pike.
Dominick Bermudez.
I back.
I did not went to the Pike. Change of plans.
I going to The Pike sometime this week.
Dominick Bermudez.
No Suburban RTS were on the Pike today-just 3970 7012 4501 4141 4944 4903-the bus I rode, 8382 and a few others. 3957 is horrible-has a crooked ride to her-towards the right. Try getting on 3950-she's a descent unit. 4150 is pretty good. 4141 is not that bad also. Do not get on 4175 or 4198-both buses barely make it over 15 mph on the Pike-Put her on Queens Blvd-LMAO! ;)
Q43#4141Gary
Q46#4150Gary
Q46#4903Gary
Q88#3950Gary
Orion 5 #135 and others-here's a pic of 4150 for all you 1985 RTS fans out there:
Enjoy!
Q46#4150Gary
Gary, if you get any closer to that bus you're gonna get a great view of the undercarriage LOL! Looks like someone running off from Springfield turning left onto Jamaica..... yes?
Yep-got it before I met you when you were on the Q88. I was on the sidewalk-believe it or not-LOL!
Q88#4150Gary
Thank you Gary for that photo of 4150. But Two things I need to ask you. Was that photo of 4150 was takin at Jamaica and Springfield?
What Route 4150 was on? I got a X32 Timetabe and I looking at the bus on the fount clover that is MCI 102DL3 #1861. I keep looking at it everyday.
Dominick Bermudez.
4150 was indeed taken at Jamaica and Springfield coming off of the Q88. Here's 1 I took of 4198 on the Q46:
Enjoy!
Q46#4198Gary
There certainly was an Orion on the Pike today! I didn't get the number, but good ol Gus had that square shanty box :-)
Gus?! IDK him or his run.
1 more oldie for the RTS fans out there-7012:
Enjoy!
Q36#7012Gary
Gus?! IDK him or his run.
1 more oldie for the RTS fans out there-7012:
Enjoy!
Q36#7012Gary
No I did not see any Suburbans on the Q46 Today. I going out tomorrow some place. SO I see if any suburbans on the Q46 tomorrow. I post it on here.
Dominick Bermudez.
Heard that 1773 was on the Q79 and 611 and 619 were on the Q46 as of this morning. Today I had bus 8368-very fast bus-1 that joins the best list with 8387 8390 and 8391. Yesterday a different story-I had 4198 which would NOT make it over 15 mph at ALL-even on the opewn strips. I remember the 1st time I rode this bus-I missed 8355-another dog and I wanted to catch up to her because my friend was driving 8355 and we were right behind him. Wound up was that I never caught up to 8355. 4198 was crawling up the Pike. 8355 smoked 4198-LOL. Grandma's grandma can move faster than 4198. Now to the eulogy of BIG AL concerning 1740-I WAS LMAO! I hope 1755 does come back. Is she still in the depot with her decals on her? Like the Undertaker in WWF Wrestling-1755 will rise from the dead and keep rollin rollin rollin-once again! 1740 was an EX-QV bus. So now there are 5 buses once again in the 1982 RTS Contest-1740 1751 1767 1773 and UGH 1852!
BUT I pray that 1755 makes it back in the mix.
I sure hope to see 1740 on the X64 next week behind 9252. I have my camera handy.
Q46#8368Gary
X64#1740Gary-FOR U BIG AL! LOL!
X63#1755Gary
I saw something on the Q46 this morning and yesterday morning with black paint above the traingle window instead of white, but I didn't get close enough to get a number. I haven't seen an Orion there yet, fortunately. As for things coming back, 1385 is sitting in Carlton yard just waiting to take a trip out to the DoB's favorite borough :)
It was probably either 3906 3914 3933 3946 3973 3976 3977 3978 3979 3980 3982 3983 or 4045. I doubt that it was 1767.
Q46#4045Gary
It wasn't 3979 or 3980; they both have the decal by the front door, and this one had it above the traingle window. I got 3979 last night; it seemed to have a little trouble on the incline before the GCP overpass, but it was great taking off on Queens Blvd.
Q46#3979Mike
Q46#1385Mike :)
No suburbans on the Q46 the last 3 Days.
Dominick Bermudez.
Last 3 days the Q46 has been running weekend schedules. It's only during the weekdays that you will see Suburbans on the Q46 or any other line.
Q46#619Gary
Q79#1773Gary
I remember back in July 1999.
1767 running on the Q46 on saturday night. When I was comming home to Kew Gardens after shopping at caldor. Now it's K-mart. Boy I was lucky to go on that bus on a saturday.
Dominick Bermudez.
GM RTS#1767
Today.
I saw a Orion5 Suburban on the Q74. I almost got off the Q60 bus just to go on that bus. I forgot my camera. I could have went on it instead. So I going out tonight to Fresh Meadows. Because today is my birthday.
Dominick Bermudez.
Happy Birthday to you! How young are you? I saw 118 on the Q27, 137 Q14, 113 sitting in Flushing, and 612 on the Q75. No 1700s or 3800 Suburbans were on the local lines from my observations.
Q27#118Gary
Q75#612Gary
Today.I Saw 118 on Q74,1740 on X63,and 3818 on X68.
Boy what a nice day it is.
Dominick Bermudez.
Orion5 #118
GM RTS #1740
GM RTS #3818
I saw the dreaded Q46 Orion this morning... didn't get close enough to get a number, though.
"square shanty box"
Couldn't have put it better myself! The most commonly heard question on the X68:
"What's that green stuff on the dirty floor?"
How Did you know that 3957 is horrible-has a crooked ride to her right? You went on that bus before? QV Should scrap 4175 and 4198 if these buses go so slow. If not. Put 4175 and 4198 on X68.
Dominick Bermudez.
HAHAHAHA! 4175 and 4198 X68! The day I see that I'll LMAO! I've rode on just about all of the buses at QV. 3957 I've rode on many times before and it drifts to the right.
X68#4198Gary-LMAO ;)
Q46#3957Gary-Whatever-LOL!
Q46#3950Gary
Why do you like the Q46 route so much? Does it have stretches where the buses can flex their muscles or what?
Sure does-from 193 St-Cross Island Pkwy on Union Tpke it can get pretty speedy. Also because I rely on it to get to and from school Monday-Friday. It's a great line to ride if you're a bus buff.
Q46#8387Gary
I like the Q46 Too.
I use it many times.It get's me to most places I go to.
I like it too. one time On A sunday I took it from LIJ to Kew Gardens.
The bus I went on was 7025. this was back in early 1999.
Dominick Bermudez.
Me Too.
I did not see any suburbans on Q46 Today.
Just saw a Few TMC and NOVA RTS And GM RTS 4451,3957,and 7004.
That's all I saw.
Dominick Bermudez.
Orion Suburbans on the Q46?? Oh, no; they were bad enough on the 74 :(.
The bastard did so via a "pocket veto" meaning that he took no action on it in the 30 day period after the state Legislature reconvened.
So much for that.
i assume he did that with the staten island bus bill. and does anyone know about the 20/50/ tier one bill which would give tier one members one extra month of service for each year up to 24.
Thanks to Willie James' TOTAL INCOMPETENCE AND/OR INEPTNESS, the Health Benefit Trust is facing a $19 million deficit this year and a $31 million deficit in 2002 according to The Chief.
To maintain current benefits, Local 100 is projecting that the members would have to pay $600 each this year so as to avoid the collapse of the HBT.
The full story is in the current Feb.9 edition of The Chief.
New TWU Local 100 President Roger Toussaint is still taking the 100 folks at the "privates" in a new direction. Saw a flyer announcing a mass meeting on Tue. Feb. 13th. Maybe he's going to give them a treat on Valentines eve ?
Mr t__:^)
Saw the 1993 Orion V Suburbans back in service at Yukon. Saw 132 and 143 on the S55/56. They were not on school runs. Also saw 4463 in service on the S79 on Wednesday.
Peace,
Kevin
we have them along with 120,125,139-142 and possibly a few more.129,130,133 and 136 see express service at castleton so go figure.
126-128 are at CAS? Where's 131 and 135? 137-138, 144-146 are still at CS. Had 144 on Q76 last night. 145 was there too. 146 did am service on the Q74 today. No coaches were on the Pike today to my knowledge. :( 4474 is at HP. LOL! More and more 4400s are going there. 8226-8243 went to 126 Street.
Q32#4474Gary
gary i cant keep up with them. its so crazy they seem to be in a different depot every day. anyway 4472 at manhattanville spewing black smoke. yukon has unknown bus 4505 (no numbers)4011 4046 and 4085. these were all doa at yukon in january and havent seen service.
Can someone tell me where's 135?
I Went on 135 on the Q74 in November 2000. I like that bus too much.
Dominick Bermudez.
Guess they saw how good they were in local service at CS,QV and MCH.
i have received the transit plans for these routes as follows,x21will start at bloomingdale and amboy,right on woodrow left on rossvilleand right on arthur kill to west shore xpway. proceed through bklyn to fdr to 23st etc to 57th and madison. x22 will start at craig and amboy right on bloomingdale and follow same route as x21. local 726 feels these routes on amboy are not geared for success. here are our suggestions x21 start at bedell amboy to bloomingdale to veterans rd west vets to rossville to foster to amboy to maguire to west shore. x22 start at page and amboy to craig to hylan to huguenot to akr to xpway. transit only plans uptown service,726 would provide uptown service via jersey and downtown via bklyn.
There are NO messages at all! Anyone else have a blank message area?
I've been having to reload a lot lately to view the messages properly. But I do see them.
I happened to be up in Toronto last week, and was amazed to see a multitude of GM Fishbowls alive and well in regular service. Can anyone give me a little background on these classic coaches, and to what do they owe their longevity?
>>>and to what do they owe their longevity?<<<
Canada doesn't like RTS buses (fools). And most of the GMs in service, if not all of them were built in the 80s.
That's why the TTC(Toronto's transit agency) is purchsing them now(the RTS's and LFS's)
Also to get bettre idea of there highly diverse fleet go to transit.toronto.on.ca
Every person at TTC loves GM New Looks. They are the easiest buses to maintain, the drivers love them for their speed and reliability, the list goes on. GM New Looks have been and will continue to be a staple in the TTC bus fleet.
First off, nearly every Canadian TA still operates large numbers of New Looks, and Toronto is no exception. Keep in mind that New Look production continued in Canada until 1986, and most Canadian TA's were still buying New Looks in the late 70's and early 80's when US transits were jumping on the ADB bandwagon.
In the few American cities that still operate New Looks, it is usually a rare and special sight to see one. TTC itself officially considers their GM New Looks to be their "front line buses." In the mid 90's, it looked like TTC was going to gradually retire all the New Looks by 2002 or so.
Man were they wrong.
In 1996 or so, TTC recognized that the GM New Look was simply the best and most reliable bus they had. At the time, they had hundreds of them, so they made the wise choice to invest in rehabilitating their existing fleet rather then purchasing unproven new bus models.
TTC GM New Looks today exist in two distinct batches: the originals and the rehabs. Any GM that still wears a number in the 8000-8999 range is either completely unrehabbed or has only had minor rehab work.
GM New Looks in the 2000-2999 range are completely rebuilt buses. Original buses from the 8000's were/are selected, rebuilt by TTC in-house, and assigned a new number in one of the 2000 series (thus retiring the 8000-series number, but NOT the actual bus). Different series within the 2000's indicated different methods by which the buses were rebuilt; I'm a little unclear on the exact details of these divisions. The first batch of rebuilds are the 2000-2100 series buses. Buses 2600-2619 were purchased by TTC used from STCUM in Montréal and rebuilt to TTC standards. (Actually, TTC purchased 100 Montréal buses and had planned to rebuild all of them, but only 20 got the treatment. No one knows what's going on with the other 80, but they definately are NOT active.) As far as my observations go, there are scattered buses in the 2200's and 2800's in addition to a whole bunch in the 2700's. The TTC considers these rebuilds to be completely new buses because they were rebuilt so extensively. So for instance, a 1981 GM bus rebuilt in say 1999 is expected to last until at least 2013. The rebuilding continues today, so within the next two or three years, nearly all of the remaining 8000 New Looks will be rebuilt to 2000's. After each bus' rebuild, it will then last 14 more years or so. This process is ensuring that New Looks will run strong in Toronto well into the next decade if not longer. Today in 2001, about half the GM New Looks are 2000's and half are 8000's. Toronto bus enthusiast websites have very extensive information about this topic.
Most of the current New Looks in Toronto were built (the first time) in 1981-1982-1983, although there are a still few hanging around from as far back as 1975. Toronto has been operating New Looks since the design was new. Their first batch was 50 Pontiac-made TDH 5301's in 1959. New Look procurements continued until 1983; the remainder of 80's purchases were Flyer/New Flyer and Orion III artics and the 87 Classics from both MCI and GM Canada in 1987.
These buses last for so long because Canadian transit systems, TTC included, have excellent maintenace. They NEVER defer maintenance, the buses are kept clean, and very well tended to.
TTC is a phenomenal transit system. 86% of their revenue comes from the farebox! No other system in North America even comes close to that. Ridership is rising significantly; I estimate that TTC may very well be profitable by 2006 or so.
I welcome any responses or additional inqueries.
Thanks all,
Neil Greenberg
A couple more things I forgot to mention:
When TTC started the New Look rebuild program, they actually went back to their dead storage and pulled New Looks which had been retired for up to two years and put them through rehab and back into service. There was debate about whether or not this made good financial sense, but I think everyone now agrees that it was a good move.
To my knowledge, the single oldest active bus in the fleet is #8051, a 1975 GM Canada T6H 5307N. Its brother #8058 might still be active, too. TTC has assorted other older New Looks (1976-1980 vintage) in storage, I know at least #8111 is one of these.
The last New Look purchased new by TTC is #8985. It is a 1983 GM Canada T6H 5307N. It is still running un-rebuilt with its original number.
The rebuilding process does NOT target buses sequentially. Rebuilds are done on a reasonably random, individual basis rather than in large blocks of buses. So New Look #8748 might be unrebuilt, then #8749 rebuilt to a 2000-series bus, then #8750 still wearing its original number. So the number 8749 is gone, but the physical bus still exists rebuilt and operating with a new fleet number. (Those numbers are not necessarily REAL, but a good example of how the rebuild process works.)
Do not be fooled into thinking that there were actually 986 New Looks because the number are ~8000 to 8985. From the early 70's to the early 90's, TTC had a somewhat abnormal numbering scheme in that they just numbered new bus batches starting at the next available multiple of 5 or 10, regardless of the bus type. SO GM New Looks were numbered from the 7900's or so well into the low 8200's, then there were some 30' Orion I's and 1978 Flyer D-800's in the 8200's and 8300's, a few more New Looks in the 8300's, and then 1981 Flyer D-901's 8380-8485 (I think.) Then when New Look purchases started again, the numbers started at 8490. From there up, most of the rest of the 8000's were indeed New Looks.
When the 8000's filled up after 1983, TTC went down to the 6000's. Their first buses to be numbered there were 123 1985 Flyer D-901's, 6000-6122. Then came 75 more Flyers, 6130-6204. Then the 84 Classics are numbered 6210-6293. It just so happened that the next multiple of 10 was an even hundred number, thus the (problem-plagued and now retired) 1987 New Flyer D-40-87's were 6300-6359. When the Orion III's started rolling in, they were 6360 into the low 6400's. The second order of Orion III's has numbers covering some higher 6400's as well as some low 6500's. Some later orders of New Flyer D40's in the 6400's, 6500's, and 6600's until 6639. The last batch of buses to use this pattern was the 106 1991-1992 Ontario Orion V's, which are numbered 6640-6745. There are no buses in the 6800's or 6900's.
For a good five years, the TTC did not buy another bus. In 1996, they slightly revamped the way they number to have a separate series for each purchase. Their 135 - 1996 Orion V's are the first to display this, numbered 7000-7134. (and 50 CNG's numbered 9400-9449, TTC likes to keep alternate fuel buses in the 9000 range.) After the Orions, the RTS's are 7200-7250, and the New Flyer D40LF's are 7300-7351. Now, their next buses will start at 7400.
What sparked the whole massive New Look rebuild program was TTC's discovery that most newer bus models do not hold a candle to the New Look in quality. After the Orion VI fiasco and testing other models new to the market, TTC just threw its hands up and renewed its faith in the buses it knew best, the GM New Look.
TTC is one of the only TA's in Canada to operate RTS's. Most Ontario transit systems now purchase Orion buses exclusively because they are made in Ontario, and trade regulations mandate that they buy from within the province if they want government assistance in funding the new buses. The reason TTC is able to acquire NovaBUSes and New Flyers (made in Québec and Manitoba, respecitvely) is that they buy these buses with 100% their own money. There was ZERO government money that went into the purchase of the newest TTC buses. (Compare that to the US, where the federal gov't funds about 80% of the cost of every new bus.)
Thanks,
Neil
¡Qué viva el subjuntivo!
I remember well during the early 80's when Canadian transit agencies (and a couple of those in the US) decided to stay away from the ADB's. I need to take a trip to Toronto to ride some good 'ol GMDD buses. Does TTC still operate their TA60102N's???
Wayne
Only a few US TA's continued to purchase non-ABD's, Boston is an example that comes to mind.
Don't worry Wayne, you don't need to rush to Toronto if you want to ride a New Look, they will be around for years to come.
TTC only operated their Classic Artics (TA60102N's) for a little while; they were sold to Mississauga in the early 90's. I think OC Transpo in Ottawa now has their hands on at least one ex-TTC ex-Mississauga TA60102N (OC #8222).
Toronto bought a total of 90 Orion-Ikarus III/286 articulated buses in 1987 and 1988. These had major corrosion problems, and they were gradually retired until the artic fleet dwindled to about 40 in 1999. In early September 2000, all of them were retired. However, due to severe overcrowding, TTC has recently gone back and rehabbed a half-dozen artics or so to serve the heaviest trips on the busiest routes.
TTC has very serious plans to buy up to 250 new articulated buses starting in 2003, but until then, Toronto will be sorely missing articulated buses.
Neil
One other thing (I keep forgetting to include everything in my posts!):
TTC's New Looks are not confined to any specific set of routes. You can find them anywhere, on most routes at most times. There are a few routes which use Orion VI's or D40LF's exclusively, but other than that, there's a pretty good chance that your bus on any route will be a New Look.
Are they still using roll signs or did they switch over to electronic signs? I haven't been up for awhile and sort of lost track of what all they are up to at the TTC.
They are using electronic signs.
<<< Only a few US TA's continued to purchase non-ABD's, Boston is an example that comes to mind. >>>
Only in the early 1980's, when the MBTA purchased GMDD New Looks and Flyer D901's. Since 1985, the MBTA has only purchased RTS buses from GMC/TMC/NovaBus. It was only recently that they have gone outside the RTS fold to New Flyer and NABI.
Jim
Thanks Neil,
{TTC only operated their Classic Artics (TA60102N's) for a little while; they were sold to Mississauga in the early
90's. I think OC Transpo in Ottawa now has their hands on at least one ex-TTC ex-Mississauga TA60102N (OC
#822]
I find it interesting that you referred to the TA60102N's as Classic Artics. I always thought of them as Fishbowl Artics since they had fishbowl bodies. In Bus World I do recall seeing a photo of an Articulated MCI Classic.
As I said here many times... I'm a native New Yorker and I miss living there, but I'm happy to be around WMATA's diverse fleet (with so many Flxible Metro's). I do look forward to visiting Toronto someday.
Wayne
I find it interesting that you referred to the TA60102N's as Classic Artics. I always thought of them as Fishbowl Artics since they had fishbowl bodies. In Bus World I do recall seeing a photo of an Articulated MCI Classic.
I have always called them Classic Artics, although you're right that they are mostly New Look. Only the front is Classic.
There were, though, at least two orders of straight Classic artics. Québec City has two, and Halifax has about 15. All of these buses were made about 1991. There might be more. I vaguely recall seeing an ad for the Classic Artic by NovaBUS when Nova was first becoming popular. Needless to say that they never produced one, and we all know what became of the Classic design.
Neil
Where can you find pictures of Orion-Ikarus buses? Also, didn't Orion make an Orion III at one time which was an artic?
Try going to the following site for several pictures of the TTC articulated buses:
http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/gtabus/index-gal.html
My last two July trips in Toronto found that Fishbowls downtown are pretty much limited to the 6-BAY route, although Classics are mixed in there as well (I don't like them, they are a cheap imitation). Also, the northern suburbs have lots of them too.
The TTC Is Rebulding their fleet of Newlooks,Classic's,D901A's,D40's,and Early 1990's Orion5's.
I heard That TTC Is now going to Rebult 18 Orion3's. after TTC Notice that after retired the Orion3's in November 2000 when the TTC heard that the Orion3's need to go back into service because the TTC Added Lots Of 40 Foot's and It Get's Packed alot of times. The Orion3's run's on the 39 Finch East express and 53 Stelles east express.
TTC brought some RTS from Nova Bus. The RTS runs most of the time on Route 100 and Route 87. Sometimes Route 75. the Nova LFS Have sold off after the TTC did not Like the LFS. Here's the list what TTC Brought from Nova Bus.
1998 Nova RTS 7200-7251.
1998 Nova LFS 1001.
TTC Might buy more buses from Nova Bus anytime soon.
Dominick Bermudez.
Did the test RTS that the TTC used get sent to the TA afterward(being that was the layout of the bus ) and if so what # is it now?
The Demo that was at TTC. Got leased from Nova Bus. The demo went back to Nova Bus in July 1998 after 7200 came in.
The number of that demo bus that got leased from nova bus.#1001
The demo bus was bult in 1995.
But TTC sold off the LFS to Barrie Transit for A wopping $306,000 dollars. That's alot of money for a used bus.
Dominick Bermudez.
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the Fishbowl trolleybuses. Toronto had a fleet. When TTC discontinued trolleybus service, SEPTA should have bought them off of TTC and replaced the AM Generals. It would have been cool to see SEPTA with Fishbowls once again (and enviromentally friendly too).
Toronto had a few fishbowl trolleybuses that they bought second-hand from Edmonton, but the huge bulk of Toronto's trolleybuses were Flyer E-700's that were considerably older than the AM General Trolleybuses SEPTA operates.
A few of the posts in this thread have alluded to this. Toronto is one of the best cities in North America for bus fans or, for that matter, all transit fans. If you haven't visited this wonderful city yet, you should do all you can to put a trip there in your future travel plans. You are really missing something by not seing it in person.
Toronto is one of the best cities in North America for bus fans or, for that matter, all transit fans. If you haven't visited this wonderful city yet, you should do all you can to put a trip there in your future travel plans. You are really missing something by not seing it in person.
Well said, Sid. TTC is like my fantasy of what every large transit system should be. It has elements of European transit systems, but still maintains all the familiar aspects that we all know and like.
Neil
Um, I guess. It's nice that TTC has so many "classic" buses. But really, only a few of them can be considred true classics becuase most were built around the time the 2nd Generation RTS were hitting the streets.
GM New Looks used to be a fantasy of mine, until I found out they sounded like a 1970s delivery truck. Their motors are so BLAH it's sad. I never knew a 6v71N could sound so generic. New Looks are surviving on their nostalgia alone. Besides their hideously cute design and their RTS like ability to survive anything, they are generally boring buses engine wise. Perhaps, if they added a top exhaust pipe as on our Grumman 870/Metro A Hybrids they'd get that sound I love so much. But as of now, they sound like those 1970s MCIs and Neoplans people out here use for church buses. I still want to ride them, but that aura of mystery of how do they sound is gone.
Looking at a picture of TTC's "RTS" I finally realized why they are so damn ugly. The placement and design of the headlamps. That's it. Just move the headlights back and you'd have a slightly modified RTS with a WFD.
Orion VIs are the sophisticated, cleaner, and handsomer cousins of the Flxible. These buses are the saving graces of Orion. Orion Vs are the slightly uglier cousin of Flxibles. They're beginning to get that Cadillac beauty of a Flxible. They're at cheap Oldsmobile now though. Orion Is look like something a time warp sucked into the 1980s. How something like this was designed and built in the 80s is beyond me. The person who designed the Orion I should be publicly flogged and exhiled.
Any Flyer is a good Flyer, except the D-40-87s.
Overall, a good system. I have to say I'm proud of the TTC for what they've done with the Fishbowls. NYC should do that with the RTS since they are just as good or better than Fishbowls. The only reason RTS's haven't lasted as long in NYC is because 65% of NYC's bus depots have questionable maintenence tactics if not outright bad maintenence. I mean geez, who retires a 13 or 14 year old RTS bus because of an oil leak or smoky engine!? Don't say because of emissions because we have the worst air in the country and we've been in the top 10 for some time. Houston would have never thought of retiring an RTS bus at 14 over a bad engine. it'd just be replaced. They even did heavy body work on them when they were 16 and 17. Oh well.
Well, 13 or 14 year old RTSs don't have the new technology of brand new buses, and passengers enjoy the newer buses. An oil leak probably could be fixed (unless the oil ruined the bus somehow. Besides, the older RTS buses that NYC runs look sorta grungy, and the brand new ones look much sharper and well, cleaner, and are much closer to what you describe as an RTS bus. About the Orion VI, 300 people were laid off because it wasn't as popular as Orion hoped they would be, as well as the Orion II. The Orion VIs is just a low floor version of the Orion V, and I think the only reason the Hybirds in NYC are beautiful is because of the paint scheme (it's amazing what wonders a paint scheme can do)
As for the Orion I, I think I may be starting to understand why you keeep saying it was way too old for it's time. For one, the front of the bus is not a modern 80's design-it has the high and round lights like a New Look. However, the rest of the bus is much more modern. One thing that I liked about the Orion I is that it was much more different than the other buses of that time. Not like a Flxible or a Neoplan. Sorta like the RTS of today. However, when I think of an old bus, at least at that time, I just think of the New Looks, since they loked ancient. For SEPTA, I never even saw their Flxible New Looks for myself in real life, yet on the WMATA bus fleet, I rode them regularly on the K6, as well as the RTSs.
Anyway, I also agree with you about the WFD RTSs, about how the headlights ruin everything that makes the front of the bus look halfway decent. Anyway, most transit companies like to retire buses after 12 years. And before you say that no other buses can last that long, SEPTA's oldest Neo's are 16 right now and still going strong. Besides, it's nice to have something new every once in a while, and it pleases the passengers. Would you personally rather ride a New Look or a brand new New Flyer D40LF?
>>>Well, 13 or 14 year old RTSs don't have the new technology of brand new buses, and passengers enjoy the newer buses.<<<
Then you should be against everything TTC stands for. Their rehabbed New Looks are looking to last at least until 2015 or 2018. They expect their buses to last 18 years. They were built in 1975, 1980-83 BTW.
Passengers don't really care about a new bus after the first few rides becuase they get marked up just like the old ones. 90% of the people in Houston think the RTS buses are between 8 and 10 yrs old.
>>>Would you personally rather ride a New Look or a brand new New Flyer D40LF?<<<
A D40LF becuase I think they are more interesting than a New Look and their delivery truck motors.
"Passengers don't really care about a new bus after the first few rides becuase they get marked up just like the old ones."
Well, by then they are basically used to it, and besides, it's just a bus in their opinion. However, my friend at school said he'd rather ride a new bus, no matter what kind it is, than an old bus, once again, no matter what kind it is. I know this is probably the most wrong thing I could ever compare this to, but my school district just got new buses to replace their ancient All American Blue Birds and most of their old international Blue Birds and Thomases, as well as all 3 Thomas Saf-T-liners and the not common Blue Bird minibuses. Now, for once, I don't totally hate school buses as I used to. Nowadays there is actually leg room between the seats, unlike the old thomases, and the door is automatic, providing more ease for the driver. Plus, there is a smoother ride, since there are decent shock absorbers on these new buses.
90% of the people in Houston think the RTS buses are between 8 and 10 yrs old.
Didn't you say that Houston RTSs are 13-14 years old, or even up to 16 or 17? If so, that means that Houston actually has a good maintainance facility, and this is the first time you convinced me.
Anyway, about the new buses again, having the same old buses on a fleet does tend to get boring after a while, and it's nice when there is a change every once in a while. Relating this post to the New SEPTA M-4s, which only have negative comments made about them, I actually prefer them than the almond joys. The seats are comfortable with creative fabrics (Blue with little Ls-the "el"-get it? haha) and it's much brighter with air conditioning. I heard about those particular trains coming from about 1995 or 1996 (I found this old flyer somewhere) and the last summer I spent on the almond joys was awful-it was terribly hot. Plus, the announcement of the stops is quite helpful to everyone, especially tourists and people who jsut want to relax without having to look out the window to see what station the train stopped at. Although I admit that there is a funky sound to the horn of the M-4s (it's like this whistle) it's a nice train. Plus, you get to see the path the train would take, and it's a beautiful view of the city when you are on the el tracks.
Back to buses, riding the new Neoplans was quite interesting, since it had a similiar yet different interior design of the old Neoplans. Plus, the engine was silent under the noise of the engine, and I can tell you that the engine of the older ones can be heard pretty well over the air conditioning (but not as well as the NABIs)
Maybe the best thing about new buses is that they offer new technologies that the older buses may not have, and if you have a decent transit company that actually likes changing their look from time to time, it's something brand new and different.
Anyway, about the TTC, I heard that they numbered their bus stops so that you can call to get instant information about the status of your stop or something like that. It seems to me that they are working in other ways to modernize their transit company. Besides, they stand out since they plan to run these ancient buses. I just hope for the commuter's sake that those buses are comfortable. Besides, TTC has new buses, like the Nova LFS, New Flyers I think, and numerous Orion Vs and a few Orion VIs. Since they are getting new buses anyway, they probably need the New Looks for the fleet as well. Besides, isn't it cheaper to refurbish a bus than to buy a new one? Anyway, don't forget that all designs with a few exceptions go out of style eventually, including (to most transit buff's distaste) the New Looks. Besides, you even pointed out that the Orion I was out of style before it was even marketed.
Anyway, I read about your dream last night. Did you get your milk, lol.
>>>Didn't you say that Houston RTSs are 13-14 years old, or even up to 16 or 17? If so, that means that Houston actually has a good maintainance facility, and this is the first time you convinced me.<<<
Nope, they were that age back in 1997. Our youngest RTS bus is 17. Most of the fleet is turning 19 this year and 1903 and 1905 may turn 20 if they make it to the summer. They are still in good condition for their age. Our GM New Looks were literally falling apart when they reached that age back in the 70s. Plus, they can still beat the Neoplans in acceleration.
>>>TTC has new buses, like the Nova LFS<<<
They decommisoned an LFS sometime last year becuase they didn't like it. I think they have some more, I'm not too sure.
>>>Anyway, I read about your dream last night. Did you get your milk, lol.<<<
She took the curve before I could do it :(
[They decommisoned an LFS sometime last year becuase they didn't like it. I think they have some more, I'm not too sure.]
TTC no longer has the one Nova LFS it had. In addition to some Orion VI's, it has about 50 New Flyer low-floor buses (as is mentioned somewhere else in this thread).
I actually like the sound of the 6v71 in a New Look. It has a neat roar to it that I grew up with. I also like the whistle of the Grumman 870/Metro 6v71s as well; eash has a distinctive sound that i like.
As far as your comments on the Fishbowls, just remember, if it wasn't for those, the RTS would not exist, as those were their predecessors. This is a classic design that still looks great today. And the same can be said for your baby, the RTS, albeit more strikingly modern in a wonderful way.
By the headlights on the TTC RTSes, do you mean those ugly flat front ends they've been putting on the newer ones? If so, I agree....UGH! They look like something I ate and dropped. I prefer the original GMC-style nose MUCH better.
-Fred
I found the TTC roster on line at Alan Gryfe's web site:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/TORONTO/torontoroad2.html
The TTC Fishbowls in service were originally built in 1981-1982. A lot of these buses are rebuilds from the 8000-series, while some were ex-Montreal fishbowls. The fishbowls were retrofitted with electronic destination signs, almost a rarity for ANY fishbowl.
I guess the rules are different in Canada, in that buses there are not considered replacable after 12 years.
From the pictures I've seen, Toronto really takes care of their buses.
>>>The fishbowls were retrofitted with electronic destination signs, almost a rarity for ANY fishbowl.<<<
Our 33xx and 34xx Fishbowl rehabs were retrofitted with electronic signs as well.
Even though they have electric destination signs, they couldn't be that readable, since the space for the destination sign was too small. Also, like the Gillig Phantoms of today, the destination sign faced downward to the street a little bit. And the flip dot signs are awful at night, since the light seems to overpower the actual lettering. On the Neoplans (during the daylight) when the light hit the sign at the right angle, the letters would certainly stand out. Personally, I like the modern destination signs, which have big bold lettering.
I suppose the few Fishbowls in Toronto that have standee windows are the ones from Montreal ? Why didn't TTC like standee windows ?
As for the sound of the 6V-71, they sounded different prior to 1973 when they ran the exhaust and the air intakes up the sides of the back windows. Also Suburbans, whether 6V71 or 8V71, sounded much different inside, although the same outside. They were virtually silent in 4th gear inside.
[I suppose the few Fishbowls in Toronto that have standee windows are the ones from Montreal]
Yes, at present. I believe the ex-Montreal fishbowls are numbered 2600-2619. I recollect that the very early fishbowl orders from TTC did include standee windows (5301's and 4517's and, perhaps, some early 5303's). Somewhere during the production of the 5303, TTC switched to fishbowls with no standee windows for good.
Hudson,
What were the earlier plans on the 2 proposed South Shore express buses before this plan came out.
Since I don't like the plans that came out on the X21/22, here are my plans for both the X21/22 & how it should work.
Start the X21 at Bloomingdale Rd & Amboy Rd, on Amboy Rd, left on Foster Rd, then Rossville Av to the West Shore Expwy.
Run the X22 along the entire way of Bloomingdale Rd to the West Shore Expwy instead of running along Woodrow Rd & Rossville Rd.
What is the proposed Manhattan routing descipition for both the X21/22.
Finally, how many new MCI buses will Yukon receive & when will they start arriving.
Are you sure you are not follo -because your style is exactly the same as his
He says he's not...perhaps he's channelling messages from the spirit of Follo.
Anyone know a good exorcist?
Does anyone else ask about both Staten Island AND 63rd Street 24/7 but never contributes to the board?
Yes, my drift is "SI Express bus rider" has gone and posted about 63rd Street on SubTalk AGAIN!
Once again, I am NOT this FOLLO guy, so would you bustalk post please STOP accusing me that I am this guy because I am getting very mad about this.
Is there a "killfile" feautre on this board?
Thanks
like follo no email address so i cant respond since we told follo not to address posts to specific people on bustalk.
Yes.
I beleive you in spite of what some may say
Peace,
ANDEE
Does anyone else post about both 63rd Street and the X21 and X22, using the same format, and never contributes to the rest of the board?
Think, and then you may want to change your opinion.
Today I saw #5545 in Silver Spring. This bus used to operate in upper county. Ride-On does not have advertising on it's bus exteriors, however #5545 has the ad racks on it. I'm guessing it was being used in some sort of special service - perhaps like the WMATA 30 foot Metro B's in Ride-On colors. Also has anyone figured out why Ride-On's 30 foot buses have gained a letter "A" as part of their fleet number?
Wayne
I have been wondering about that 'A' as well. Does Ride-On have two garages? If so, perhaps that A indicates a bus' home garage. Ride-On numbers just flat out piss me off. It's one thing to have a bus number 5702, but when it becomes 995702A, that's just annoying.
Ride-On does have 2 garages. The routes in lower county are assigned to Rockville and those from upper county are assigned to Gaithersburg. First I was thinking that they should just use UMTA type fleet numbers to indicate the year. Considering the size of their fleet they could use a 3 digit fleet numbering scheme.
Wayne
That is probably why the routes in the upper county and lower county run such different types of buses.
Actually, the lower county routes (1-42) come from Silver Spring Garage, while (43-90s) come from the Gaithersburg Facility.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I was wondering about that. I didnt really understand why the "Rockville routes" (upper county routes) wouldn't just use the Rockville garage. But there isn't one, I guess.
If it was on the 92, it still runs out of upper county. This is one of the stupidest moves because the garage in Lytonnsville is closer to the Bethesda CBD than the one near Shady Grove.
saw this bus on the gowanus today. it is a thomas built 30 footer with a back window and was green. i assume they arer shopping this bus around for customers. nice looking bus.
Hudson,
Your e-mail address doesn't exist, everytime I send you a e-mail, I gets sent back because your e-mail doesn't exist.
i get plenty of email. the address is trolleybus@aol.com. sorry i forgot about the change when this board was shut down several months ago.
To all you busbuffs,
I need your response on bustalk on how the X21/22 should be improved.
Today. At 2:16 PM.
I saw A MAN #626 Running the Route 60 going southbond when I was waiting for the 60 Bus to Take me and my mom to Metro North RR New Rochelle station At the bus stop. I Got on that bus across the street from mcdonald's on US1 In New Rochelle. The New Rochelle train station is a little far away from mcdonald's on US1 In New Rochelle. that means I have to take the 60 Bus to the New Rochelle train station. I went on that bus and the bus have alot of people on that bus. So I Stand Up when I Went in. I never rode A MAN before so this was my first time on one. The Inside of the Beeline MAN's Make the bus look very nice with blue seats. I Got off at the New Rochelle Train Station. It Was A Nice Ride on one. And I say that I don't like MAN's but I like the Beeline MAN's Better than any other MAN in the US. I going back to westchester one day to ride anouther one. Before the Beeline MAN's go BYE BYE For Good.
Dominick Bermudez.
The next time you go to Westchester, you might want to head to White Plains. I know for a fact (at least the last time I was there) that the MAN artics operate - at a minimum - on the 20, 40, and 60 lines. I have also seen these buses running on the 7 out of Yonkers.
Trevor isn't going to like my saying this, but try to avoid the Bee Line Flxibles. IMHO, they are painfully slow, which I think has to do with the 6V92TA/Voith transmission power plant. Once, I rode a Flx on the 3 express between White Plains and Yonkers/Getty Square. The bus seemed to accellerate pretty slowly compared to most buses I've riden, especially compared to the NJT Flxible Metro B buses.
>>>Trevor isn't going to like my saying this, but try to avoid the Bee Line Flxibles. IMHO, they are painfully slow, which I think has to do with the 6V92TA/Voith transmission power plant.<<<
You forgot to mention that they sound ugly too. They sound like the New Look's delivery truck cousin.
I rode a Flixible on the 1W (Bronx-bound) and that bus ran fast along US-9
Route 3 is a local route. Not a express route.
I went on one of the Flxible's that the Beeline runs back in June of 1999 on route 66. It went preety fast.
Also you can find MAN's on Route 7 In New Rochelle too. Sometimes I see them running Route 62 Express and Route 42 in New Rochelle.
I go to School around there. But I live in Queens.
I up in New Rochelle alot of times.
Dominick Bermudez.
Actually, Route 3 is the express variation of the 1W local. The 3 operates express between White Plains and Yonkers via the Sprain Brook Parkway. Also, if I remember correctly, between Yonkers and 242 St Subway, it operates discharge only to The Bronx and pick-up only to White Plains.
As for the Flxibles, perhaps I caught one of the slower ones, but I thought the accelleration was a little slower than normal. But, then again, maybe it was just me...
The only MAN buses that I have ever ridden were the MAN articulateds on the WMATA fleet, and they seemed pretty nice to me.
Today, I had been going in and out of sleep for quite sometime worrying about a girl whom I feared had Meningitis, but instead it was tale-tale sign of Diabetes 2 :( Anyways, everytime I'd wake up I'd try to call her, but she'd never be home, so I'd fall back into dreamland. Well one of those times, I had an odd and long dream that went something like this...
I had ridden to the Kashmere Transit Center on the northside of town and was waiting for some RTS buses to roll in. Well, alot of odd buses rolled in including some of our Neoplan 45ft. Suburbans on the local 1-Hospital line, a number of New Flyers and Ikarus buses, a Viking or two and a finally an RTS.
As the RTS rolled in, I saw this old hispanic driver I recognized driving the bus. The bus was RTS 2184 on the 52 Hirsch line which is normal and happened last week. What wasn't normal was that 2184 had clear but ragged windows (they're scratched and ragged) and had a little undercut in the back just like an Ikarus bus but was alot more profund. To me, this somehow registered as normal so I ignored that, but a Toyota Terecl type exhaust potruded from the top right hand corner of the undercut and spewed out alot of blue gas like many cheap foreign cars do from the 80s. It sounded just like an RTS should though.
While 2184 was still on Hirsch Rd, right before it pulled in there was a conversation going on...
Driver: So you like that black p*ssy huh?
Man: Hell yeah, ain't no p*ssy like black p*ssy.
Driver: (Laughs) I couldn't agree more.
That's when he turns into the Transit Center. After that interesting converstaion, he unloads the bus and the stars of this dream exit the bus unbeknowest to me. I walked around the TC a little more frantic for a 426 so I could go back to my side of town. I was in a rush for some reason. I actually left the TC and walked north on Hirsch (the opposite direction of where I was trying to go) and caught a Ferroni 30ft. bus. It took me right back to the transit center and I got off. The engine was so realistic.
I then began pacing the TC and the voice of my play sister went through my head and began annoying the hell out of me. She was basically saying that I couldn't stay after school with her anymore because she had my cousin to do it for her. I found this amusing because she stated it like it was something I was going to be missing out on, but I actually despised this task since last year. She then basically went on to say that I wasn't welcomed at her house anymore (I haven't visted in months and wasn't looking to). When she noticed I didn't care, she stopped talking.
This is about the part where I met the girls in the dream. There were about five of them and three boys at first. It felt as if I knew the girls in the dream, but then it felt as if I didn't. So I was talking to these girls about something and I was cracking jokes at their expense. The laughed right along with me, but I could tell by their shifty eyes that they hated me. On the while I was trying to make an impression so I was casually putting my hands in my ears checking for earwax. That would come back to haunt me. Also, to cover up my uncut hair, I put on this blue wave cap I have and I noticed they started to look at my head. One of the boys said "What up blood?" and I promptly took it off. I looked back into the main part of the TC and saw some dudes with alot of red on walking around including a carbon copy of a guy I had really seen on the Northside this week.
After that, the boys dissapeared and the girls and I walked until it was dark and cloudy in one of those fantasy world type ways and we were sitting in desk in an old time class room. I was doing some work when my ears started burning...
Girl 1: That nigga got alot of earwax in his ears!
Girl 2: Uuuuuugh
Girl 1: Then he be diggin it out and flicking it!
Girl 1: Uuuuuugh, he's disgusting! I don't even like him no more.
By this time I was up and walking away. I could hear the other three girls giggling in the background and I walked to this office. This white woman with a kind of an afro only an old white librarian type woman could have. She asked me if I wanted to take this poster to the class I had just come from. I said no and she someone else. I then took my finger, dug in my ears and pulled out a huge glob of earwax. I flicked it for while and then the woman said, "I'm glad I didn't send you!" She then sent me back to class. When I walked back to that little area and I heard the girls laughing so I ran down these railroad tracks that were in the same area. I ran down the track and I saw another train coming right at me. It was a short train led by a steam engine of all things and I jumped right to the other track and it passed right by me.
All the while I was running I began hearing one girl saying "y'all wrong" and 'don't say that about him." I knew the others were talking about me. Then I heard them mention haircuts and I was like oh no. Luckily, the topic changed to Firan, a senior guy at my school all the girls seem to like. They said Firan looked good with or without a haircut. The one girls who seemed to be in defense of me said, "no he doesn't." Another girl said "Yes he does, he knows how to keep himself up."
At this point I jumped off the track and walked down this path. As I was walking I saw two more Firan lovers coming my way. They ignored me as they passed, but I heard their conversation. They said Firan had taken a small rail car and ridden down the tracks and then left it for scrap. To them this was some type of amazing feat. I just sighed and walked to a bus stop and caught a bus. It was an RTS, 2153.
I was the only person on the bus and it was raining now. The driver drove at an average speed of about 40mph and I was nervous because he would pass cars and then make these wierd slides back into the other lanes. Well, eventually after awhile, my fears were realized and the bus skidded and slipped and turned over on it's side. I was knocked out.
I woke up and there was one of the girls sitting on top of the farebox in a blue dress (devil in a blue dress?). She then began ragging on me some more and I just stared at the RTS bus doors.
The girl stopped talking and yelled "Firan!" and I looked through the windshield and saw Firan, who was huge! He said "What's da deal?" And I raised up on my back a little and acknowledged him by raising my head a little. He walked around and slip open the driver's side window and asked if I was alright. I guess he thought I was driving the bus since I had a uniform on (with matching hat). After I told him I was fine, he went back to the front of the bus and pushed it back a little. Then he flipped it right-side-up. After that, he left.
I guess the girl felt burned so she took off in the bus and it the highway. At first I thought she was heading back to the little place we were at, but she was going 80mph. For some reason I wanted to go back there so I told her to take the curve. Girls being the stubborn creatures they are, she refused. So I said, I'll have to make you. I wrapped my hands around her thick neck and began trying to simultaneously strangle her and sever her jugular vein with my non-existant nails. Seeing as how she was driving, she could put in very little offense of her own. Unfortunately though, my offense was accomplshing little of it's own as well so I had to take drastic measures. I just didn't know what.
Out of the blue, she asked, "Got milk?" That gave me an excellent idea. If you know anything about the female anatomy and life proceses, you know what I attempted to do next. As I was doing this she said, "Oh look what we have here!" I looked up and I saw the hard left turn. I looked at the speedometer and we were doing 80, in an RTS people! I told her don't hit the brakes or we'd skid into the gaurdrail and plunge to our deaths (we were very high).
She began steering into the curve. I had never seen a bus de-scclerate so slowly in my life. We began bashing into cars and sliding against the guardrail. We finally made the curve, but by this time the girl had turned into fat Ms. Parker from the UPN TV series The Parkers and the bus was now a New Flyer Viking. Ms. Parker was alot less competent than the teen girl and began running into more cars on level ground. For the first time in the whole dream, my perspective changed and their were all of these different camera angles of the bus ramming cars and sliding across the freeway.
After a minute, the bus came to a stop and I got off. A news crew was there and Ms. Parker became a hero and I just a boy she saved. I left that spectacle in disgust and walked down this tree lined street with nice street lamps. I then turned around and began walking back to the scene. By now it was quite dark. I then began seeing a whole bunch of these large coach buses with Townsen & Contry on the side in large letters. The buses were a cross between K-Setra snd MCI G series coaches. The headlights were on and they were lading a multi-tude of passengers. I am certain this part of the dream came from accessed memories of me seeing a multitude of coach buses in a mall parking lot taking people to the Rodeo yesterday and until March 4th.
There was guy walking around the buses checking them out. He wore s asuit and I assumed he was Townsen. When I saw the bus company name I looked at my cousin who had popped up beside me and we gave each other one of those "yeah right" type of smiles after seeing the play on words. I then rejoined the real world. I never saw Contry.
Odd huh? Thanks for reading.
Two Salvadorans and 2 Jerseyans from Hudson County have embarked on an 8000 mile trip to take 5 tons of supplies to aid victims of the January earthquake in El Salvador. They're taking a former Suburban Transit 1985 MCI(donated by MCI) and an unidentified school bus. Click here for the story in Friday's Jersey Journal.
Can someone tell me when the Neoplan AN460 is comming in?
Did any came in yet? please yet me know.
Dominick Bermudez.
Aren't they suppose to be coming in during this year or next year?
From what I recall, the pilot bus is due sometime early this year. I don't know if it has arrived as of yet, but it should be soon if it isn't there already.
The rest of the order is supposed to arrive starting around the summer. There are two options for an additional 20 artics per year in 2002 and 2003.
If you were writing a story about a planet where bus roamed free with their own will, and every type of bus that exists was living (as in living) on that planet, what would you call that planet? I'd call it Busia, but do you guys have any other names?
1) Flxia
2) Mackia
3) Kramdenia
4) Spacecraft with NCC-870 emblazoned on the body
5) NYCTIA ?
Bill "Newkirk"
If it was named Kramdenia;would the planet's atmosphere be able to substain a string of poloponies:>)
How about:
Transitania or Terminolia
Murf......
Hmm...planet of the buses...I think that's in the Angrummana galaxy.
-Fred
Hopefully, there will be gravity on this new planet. My vote is for Newflxion.
I agree with newflxion. That would be great!
Just remember to step carefully; some parts of this planet have a low floor. It is also believed there are some articulated climates. The smallest creatures here have 30 feet; most have 40, but the largest have up to 60 feet.
Simple English language such as "Stop Requested" is well understood by interactive signals located throughout the bowels of these organisms. Also, sonic flatuation may occur once their air pressure reaches a certain level.
Older creatures have large, 2-cycle hearts, but younger ones have a smaller 4-cycle propulsion system. Diesel is a delicacy on this planet, but some prefer alternative diets of compressed or liquid natural gas and carry andromedous humps on their backs to store food. When these beings mature into old age, some of their siblings are cannibalized by their human subordinates so that they may live.
By the year 3978, the year in which Planet Of The Apes takes place, the Grumman 870 will be a 2,000 year old design, and it will STILL look newer than most of the new buses built at that time. Except, of course, for the still-produced DaimlerChrysler AOL Time Warner RTS-9104.
Fred Donaher,
Suddenly Inspired Sci-Fi Writer
And don't forget that Orion is in the constellation. Watch out for the Klingilligons! Welcome to Enterprise RTS-1701. Warp Series 50, Mr. Sulu.
-Fred
>>>Welcome to Enterprise RTS-1701.<<<
In Houston RTS 1701 was a 1977 GMC RTS-II-01 with a 6v71N engine. She had an electronic destination sign and NYC style police lights. I never rode her or seen her in person though. :(
In New York she was an RTS-04 that operated out of 126th all the way back in 1982
In New York she was an RTS-04 that operated out of 126th all the way back in 1982(1701 that is)
Oh no! Neoplan-9 From Outer Space!
Look out for that superNOVA-it's headed your way and if you observe it from NYC, it is near the Orion constellation! If this message is too late, go back in time and save the earth by setting the Flx capacitor in your time machine!
-Fred
If this message is too late, go back in time and save the earth by setting the Flx capacitor in your time machine!
You'll need 1.21 Gilligwatts of electricity! (Can a Gillig do 88 mph?)
I'm sure it could...if not, we'll just roll that baby down the hill, and at 10:04 PM, lightning will strike the clock tower, sending 1.21 Gilligwatts through the power lines, where it will contact the roof exhaust, sending the bus into 1985 like a Phantom in the night!
BTW, when I first rode a Gillig Phantom in 1988, I SWEAR that 6v92 sounded a lot like the DeLorean in the movie! Quite ironic that you made that statement, Marty McFlyer.
-Fred
That's where I get teh power of Orion saying from. The constellation Orion. Plus, Orion-Bus is an awesome bus. Not a bus of Orion, only the one and only Orion-Bus.
Ah yes, Mr. Sulu...but.. is your.... propulsion unit preference ...under...warp...Series....50 or...of...the Cummins....persuasion?
-Captain...James....T....Kirk.
Must....ride...a busline...dot...com!
I name it Nova Orion City.
Where Orion1,Orion2,Orion3,Orion5,Orion6,Nova LFS,and Nova RTS comes togeter in one city.
Dominick Bermudez.
that's a cool idea, but, well, in the bus civilization, well, RTSs and Orions are sorta against each other (you know, wars, boom boom stuff) It's basically the RTSs' fault, willing to shoot down the Orions, or any bus for that matter, at any cost so that they remain the top of the industry. That's why in Power of Orion Retus-Bus is so much against Orion-Bus-Orion-Bus stole away the attention of the reporters from him.
Orion Bus Industries is also known as OBI. That means an Orion 1 could be known as Obi-wan. May the Flx be with you.
-Fred Donaher
hehe, you are all relating this so much to Star Wars and Star Trek. It's just a planet with EVERY type of bus (that's why I can't make it Grummania or Flxor)
Here is a response from a former NYC bus on that subject:
I'm sorry, Dave...I'm afraid I can't do that.
FLX-9000
I think it should be named the planet Flxor.
-Fred
The following movie will be playing at Jamaica depot starting the week of 2/11/01
"The Return Of Bus 1740"
Rated PG (Piece of Garbage)
Premise: A badly mistreated bus depot short on buses in a very large transit system decides to put one of it's own scrapped revenue vehicles back into service after the main office refuses to send over newer and better equipment.
Starring: Farebox 1226
newly installed decals and logos
newly installed used 2-way radio
movie will be playing exclusively on the following bus routes:
Q17 & Q42
may also be seen occasionally on the X63 & X64
Admission: $1.50 (no advance sales)
Children under 44" must be accompanied by an adult
No student passes accected Monday, February 19th
look for this hot feature film coming soon to a route near you:
"9072 - the conclusion of a major body repair saga"
BIG AL
No they didn't-also btw when is JAM getting those Blitz fishbowls from Nimco:)
Al:
Priceless. Lol.
But you didn't mention if you gave it two thumbs up or not?
Actually, you once said 1740 ran pretty good. Someone there must have heard you.
For some reason, I have the "Welcome Back Kotter" theme in my head right now.
flx7595
LOL! A good alternate title would be "NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD". Jamaica, the only scrap yard disguised as a depot!
"...I laughed, I cried, I rode!" --Joe Schmuck, TA Tribune
"...I just couldn't get enough of 1740! Neither could NYCTA obviously!" --John Doe, Bus Rider Monthly
"...Absolutely hated it! RTS buses suck!" --Certified Idiot, MAD Magazine
"...Farebox 1226 has a long career ahead of it!" --Vareity
"...Even after 19 hard years of service, 1740 is still packing them in!" --Rogert Eber, Queens Village Times
User Reviews:
"It's about time they sent something new to the hood!" --Shaniequa Jones
"That freakin' bus is going to outlive me!" --Ella Mae Jenkins
"We sent them new equipment! 3030 and 3033 are 1983 buses and 1740 is a 1982 bus. I really don't understand what the fuss is about." --TA DOB Spokesman
Be sure to catch these other features on a route near you!
"3030 and 3033: We're Back! Part 2"
"2640: All the 1982 Local Hardseaters Are Gone? Yeah Right."
"4010-Life After Nimco: Back in Queens."
"The Yukon 10 (4500s): We've Hit the Big Time!"
The following is a compilation of the bus talkers comments on the return of 1740 to service at Jamaica depot. To make everybody's life easier, I put it all into one thread.
RTS2150: Ha, You just can't keep a good 19 year old RTS down. Bring
back 1746. If this were a Flxible, it would have been
scrapped a long time ago. (Boy, I love annoying Trevor.)
Gary: I can't wait to ride 1740 again. I hope they bring back my
personal favorite, 1755. Now the 1982 contest is on again.
Long live the 1982 RTS. Q17#1740Gary
Q5Merrick: If you check the roster, it is very clear now that Queens
has the largest percentage of old buses. The residents
really should not have to put up with this mistreatment.
BIG AL: Yeah, Jamaica depot got jerked off again. Now we have to
put our own scrapped buses back into service. But at least
1740 is better than those other wrecks they just sent us.
John: At least 1740 doesn't have that crappy Cummins engine that
LI bus is using. Those Cummins really suck. And trying to
catch the bus when the sidewalk is unshoveled & full of
snow just makes me miserable. I'm definitely complaining.
QV.BusOper:It doesn't suprise me that they put 1740 back into service.
I just drove 4010 for the first time. What a piece of junk.
They should combine Jamaica & QV depots into 1 location and
call it "Jamaica Village Scrap Yard."
Orion5#135:Can 1740 be putting on Q17 for Sunday, August 29, 2004 at
9:30am with stupid driver. Ok. I going to Pike now. Bie
DHF60: I really feel for you Big Al. I think we may be losing our
newer RTS's with the artics coming into 126th st. I just
hope our M.D.B.F. doesn't go down any more.
Follo: Can somebody post a complete route description of the new
X21/X22 routes? Thank you
SIExpBusRdr:Can somebody post a complete route description of the new
X21/X22 routes? Thank you
Basman: maybe I can call my new planet of the buses:
"Starbase 1740 Jamaica"
BIG AL: I did not intend to, and I'm very sorry if I offended any
of the above bus talkers. I did this kind of post merely to
bring a smile to the face of all bustalkers, as I feel
bustalk has been very slow lately through no fault of
anybody's.
That was the highlight of my night. I haven't read anything that funny in months, anywhere. That was beautiful. I actually had to think back to whether or not I had posted that exact message. You should be a comedian!
Very good compilation. BTW, I noticed that 2640 had a "Mets: Believe!" ad on the engine compartment; was that a message to the Jamaica mechanics: "Queens: Believe! that we're sending you these Rolling Tons of Scrap"?
lol. That was really funny. I especially liked the part about John (gotta hate those cummins) and Follo-I mean SI Express Bus Rider. For John you should've said something about how it's good that 1740 wasn't an Orion (you know how he hates Orions). Oh, and about the planet of the buses, no, it's baaad name, hehe.
LOL! A great post as usual Big Al. By the way, I ended up stuck in traffic last night on 57th Street behind 1740. What a piece of pure sh*t! I wonder how it's passengers would feel knowing that they're riding on a vehicle that was slated to be scrapped.
Speaking of MDBF, 126's MDBF has dropped again! It is now down to less than 2000 miles and has dropped us to third among Manhattan depots. Much of the blame can be attributed to the large numbers of MaBSTOA rejects that have been transfered in. Especially bad are the 8000's from that scrap yard Hudson Pier. For those of you keeping track, New Flyer articulated # 5506 has joined the 126 fleet bringing our total number of articulateds up to 3.
just when we thought you were getting 5510-5580 the dob goes and confuses us by sending 126st 5506. what is the story of 1740. i saw it today on 23st and couldnt believe my eyes. transit has the nerve to keep running this 19 year old garbage. hudson seems to be on the verge of scrapping 3474,3476 and 3928.
You are Verry funny.By 2004 the 1982 RTS might be rebult and might have a diffent Number too. Bring back 1755!!! Bring back 1755!!
Dominick Bermudez.
What's the big deal about 1755? I mean, I keep hearing about it all the time.
You know, you're in the wrong profession. That was funny.
I'm sure 1740 will be on the Q17 sooner or later.
Just remember, about 10 or so RTS' are still sitting at College Point (Boxed in by about 30 or so scrapped "Access A Ride" coaches. So maybe Jamaica gets the RTS' and the Access a Ride coaches.
Hey....it could happen.
flx7595
I understand that the star of this epic film has been making public appearances on the X63 route today. It was spotted on 57th Street and on 23rd Street this morning fighting off autograph seekers and shunning photo ops.
What a comeback!
Mark
Loved the review and no I wasn't offended. The "mistreatment" given to SE Queens riders is now laughable. This movie has it all:
--you have a bus that should have been reduced to being a paperweight on someone's desk now running in express service! WOW!!!
--there is a scene where Q84 and Q42 riders (who recently got evicted from the Archer Avenue canopy) getting splashed in a rainstorm by one of ENY Depots 125 1999 Nova RTS's. Afterwhich, 16-year old bus 4214 pulls up. INCREDIBLE!!!
--we see QV buses 3957, 3978, 3981, 4010, and 4175 attempting to complete their tours of duty without exploding or falling apart.
--there is especially one funny scene where Orion coach 626 was on the Q75 while JAM soft-seater 4877 was spotted on the Q17--both along Hillside Avenue. This on the same day that 1740 was seen in express service.
"The Return of Bus 1740" has it all. It'll make laugh, it'll make you cry, it'll make you never want to ride a Queens express bus again.
Produced by Jamaica and Queens Village Depots, this movie shows just why those two garages always rank 1 and 2 in maintenance. You have to be a miracle worker to get the likes of 1740, 1852, 3959, 3969, 3978, 3981, 4214, 4346, 4560, and 4580 to go anywhere! Kudos to QV and JAM!
I guess after the movie does its initial run in theatres like the X63, it will be shown in smaller movie houses like the Q17
And like all great movies, after it recoups lots of money from fare paying passengers, it will go to video. Only to resurface again as a "limited engagement" run for the holidays.
Its a shame it didn't come out early enough to be announced at the Academy Awards nominations.
flx7595
And like all great movies, after it recoups lots of money from fare paying passengers, it will go to video. Only to resurface again as a "limited engagement" run for the holidays.
You mean it will be tranferred to QV to run on the Q46 Ltd? :)
and by the way the mexican is now playing to capacity crowds on staten islands own s74 and s55. follo and hank know what i mean.
i meant s59.
In Queens the Mexican is called the N20/21 or Q12
Is there going to be a guest star in this movie?
I hope it's going to be 1755 or 4878 or a Orion5 from QV or CS.
And when is 1740 is going to run the Q17?
And also make a movie about the 4 Remaing 1982 GM RTS at QV. The name of that should be "The 4 Remaing 1982 RTS. Going nowhere."
Dominick Bermudez.
http://www.quuxuum.org/~miles/odd/dirtybus.html
Well, that bus is pretty kinky....not only does she have a nice body, but I hear she's pretty flxible!
-Fred
As I sat on the 1C from Fair Oaks Mall to Ballston earlier today for the hour plus ride on Orion VI number 2000, it dawned on me why there is a 2000 and a 3900, which I also happened to see today on the 1B. Since WMATA purchased 100 Orion VI's, if they were to start at 2001, it would run into the numbering scheme of the 2100 series Orion V's. Also, even though there aren't 100 of the 3900 series 30 foot Orion V's, if there ever were to be, it would enter the numbering scheme of the Flxible Metro E buses 4001-4104.
The WMATA Orion6 Buses start service in the summer of 2000.
If you like to see photos of that bus go to this web site.
www.transitalk.com
Dominick Bermudez.
I got some too!
http://www.orenstransitpage.com
I got another of 2048 coming by the end of this weekend.
The MBTA has almost always had -00 buses (e.g. 7400, 8900, etc.) except for the 1994 NovaBus delivery. They would have been numbered 5300-5699 (in fact, one was delievered as 5300) but this would have interfered with the 35' foot fishbowl numbering of 5700. They were quickly renumbered, with 5300 renumbered to 0001, and until 1997 or so they still carried a Massachusetts plate with the older number (e.g. 0323 was really 5623, 0268 was really 5568).
They converted to having all of the surface fleet, except for the trolley buses, with new license plates as (T)Txxx, which is the T symbol, plus a T with the last three numbers of the bus. They did the same with the 84-89 series buses, but it was simply the T symbol with all four digits of the bus number, i.e. (T)8726 or (T)8572.
Instead of 0000, they do have an 0400 (ex-5699), which is rarely seen outside of the Charlestown/Cambridge district.
3900? I RODE THAT BUS! But it wasn't in DC. 3900 was borrowed by Valley Metro here in Roanoke, VA; it was tested on their new Downtown Express route for potential purchase. The drivers loved it; in fact, they said it reminded them of the Flxible New Looks we used to have here because it felt like "a nice, heavy bus". They also tested Thomas SLF 200s; the drivers hated them and hoped we wouldn't get any. Ironically, it looks like VM will be getting 2 Thomas 30' buses instead of two twins of the 3900. Pity. I liked the Orion!
Another cool note about 3900: I had just finished a custom model of WMATA Flxible Metro no. 9708 for a customer and was en route to the post office to ship it out when I rode 3900, so my happy customer had the pleasure of receiving a model that actually got to ride on a real WMATA bus! :) (Trevor, maybe your model will ride one...you never know.) BTW, Trevor, I just finished the grey bottom and wheels; I will be applying the stripes and details tomorrow, and hopefully will have it on the way to you this week.
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
I remember reading your post that you had about that agency borrowing 3900. WMATA has put the word "TAGS" over the "metrobus" sign on the sides. TAGS is a subsidized route operating in the Springfield, VA area to help alleviate congestion while the I-95/495/395 interchange, also known as the "mixing bowl" is being redone. These routes are the S80 and S81. One operates in a clockwise route from the Springfield Metro station and the other one opeates counter clockwise. It was odd seeing this bus operating on a non-TAGS route, especially since it was a Saturday and I'm sure there were plenty of other buses to use on this run. The rest of the bus looks the same. Its like the time someone on here noticed one of the Orion II's that was decorated with the "LINK" logo on it being used on another route other than the 98.
I would love to have a model of a WMATA flxible.
I remember the TAGS designation on the sides of 3900; it covered the MetroBus logos as I recall.
I still have a few Flxible Metros available; if you would like a WMATA model, feel free to contact me for details.
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
I'll definitely have to get in touch with you concerning the buses. I have a pretty decent collection that I keep in a cabinet in my living room that is just begging for a WMATA Flxible.
The 30' Orion V's do seem to be pretty good and feel sturdy. I think if I had to pick a favorite Orion series, the 2100 series that they got last year would get my vote. Nice destination signs. The Orion VI is growing on me too. Just have to get used to sitting so low. I just pray we never get broadsided as I don't know if you are as safe on a low floor than you would be on a standard floor bus.
I never thought of that aspect; now that you mention it, a broadside in a low floor would very well be dangerous.
Valley Metro also had one of the 2100s down here; some Orion representatives were with 2164, which was straight off the assembly line, new bus smell and all. Also, I loved the pleasant female voice on the talking announcements!
Please do get in touch about WMATA Flxibles; I hope to do at least one for you soon!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
A WMATA Flxible would be so cool. The only Flxible metro i have is for SEPTA, and they don't have any on their fleet.
Get in touch with me for more details; I can custom paint a WMATA Flxible replica for you. Hope to hear from you soon!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
I thought that the 18-minute lockout only applied to the same bus route in the same direction, but it seems that is not the case.
Suppose I take a bus a short distance, perform some quick business (e.g. make a deposit at a bank), then try to get on the same bus route going in the opposite direction. What's wrong with that? It seems legitimate to me, but apparently it is not allowed on an unlimited-ride MetroCard. Why not? If I did this with a pay-per-ride MC, it would deduct two fares, of course. But an "unlimited ride" card should cover both of those fares, shouldn't it?
dont get your metrocard ready yet. according to yesterdays si advance transit states it has no knowledge of the routing of these lines. atu president hanley states he was told nyct will not start the service until private operator is picked for the other 2 routes. the earliest possible date is now july. another case of moronic totally asinine action.
I saw this last night. MCI #2132 on the X1 returning from the city. From what i could see, the bus was trying to make a right turn off of Broadway and could not see the car on his right trying to make the same turn. Seemed like the car might have been damaged. I was on the M6 (#9501) and did not see if the bus was damaged. This happened about 5:30p.m. on 2/10/01. Is the bus and people ok?
i certainly hope the car was damaged. ill check the bus out tomorrow. moron auto drivers do this all the time.
word from si division management indicates these buses will begin arriving the end of this month about one month ahead of schedule. distribution is not yet known.
Are these buses going to have The new NY state plates?
Dominick Bermudez.
i would assume so.
I've noticed that one basicaly all buses, particularly the ones with rear ac and a rear engine, have little vents right behind the last window. Are they for the engine to cool it off a bit, or are they for the airconditioning (although I've seen some rooftops with the vents) or for some other reason?
The rear and side vents on Orions are so ugly!
Those vents are usually the engine air intakes. The engines rquire air to mix with the fuel before it goes into the cylinders to combust.
Between those vents and the engines, there are either blowers or turbochargers AND filters.
oh, I see. Then what are the vents on the bottom half of the bus for. The same thing?
That's where the radiator is at (depending on which side the manufacturer places it). Which reminds me, SEPTA Neoplans are getting their radiator grilles replaced with homemade grilles. My question is that why are the 8000-series get the rubber strip on the grilles and not the 3000-series? It would make more sense to make the fleet more uniform.
Hmm, that's interesting. Well, I guess the grills are doing well on the 3000 series buses, or maybe they are waiting a while.
Heard this from a driver on the b3 today. Ulmer Park is losing more routes to make it more of a express garage-here are the moves to happen:
B1-to JG(move this Spring Pick)
B3-FLA
B4-JG
B6-ENY
B36-FLA
B64 and B74 to stay at ULP
This is ridiclous. I mean, if JG gets the B1 and B4 it wont run in snow. Remember the snow the day b4 New Years? JG buses did not run becasue they could not move due to the snow. This would be my choice of routes for ULP.
B1,B3,B4,B36,B64,B68,B74,X25,X27,X28,X29.
whats the truth going on at ULP?
The reason the JG routes couldnt run in snow was b/ of the Low floor flyers. If they get the 1 and the 4, they will obviously need more buses to support at least 75 new runs in the depot. 190 low floors and a bunch of rts's are not enough now. All those local RTS's at UP would follow the 1 and the 4 to JG.
And besides, the snow will be gone by spring pick (knock on wood)
[Heard this from a driver on the B3....]
Route-and-depot assignment decisions are made by senior management in Transit's Department of Buses, NOT by individual drivers.
Several SubTalkers are close to the decision-making process. When they're at liberty to dislose route swaps and other interesting stuff, they generally do. Until then, whatever anyone says is speculation at best, or maybe even disinformation.
i assume that bus driver saw the new pick. staten island division pick is being posted today for an april 1 date. i assume bklyn may be the same.
Anybody know what is new in terms of bus models being made for 2001? We all know that Flixible is working on a 1/100 scale but is anything else comning out. Any word from APM on their new-look bus?
Not yet; it looks like we are still waiting for the APM Fishbowl. I am working on a mold for an HO Gillig Phantom and am considering doing a 1:64 scale Thomas SLF 200; also, the Flxible New Looks are available from me now in both 1:100 scale and 1:200 scale. I am also perennially reconditioning Hot Wheels RTS slopebacks; I am considering converting some to "boxy backs" a la the newer RTS. Also, I have been taking Road Champs Flxible Metros and converting them to Grumman 870s.
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Where do you buy your Road Champs units? I've had little luck finding them anywhere.
Chris
I found mine at the Philadelphia Transit Museum
They come up on e-bay under diecast buses, die cast buses, transit buses and toy buses quite frequently. Starting bids are sometines a bit high. Basman is right, try the gift shops of the various transit museums.
These are the current designs from Road Champs on the Flexible Metros
New York City
California-AC Transit
SEPTA
Miami
Minneapolis
Houston
Las Vegas
Flixible, can i be able to order a HO when you do the Gillig?
Don't forget NJ Transit, DART (Dallas), and CTA (Chicago). I have at least one of the NJT and CTA available, and yes, once the HO Gillig is available, you may order as many as you like. In the meantime, I have a 1:25 scale handbuilt Lego Gillig Phantom available.
-Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
when the 1/87 scale of Gillig is done, will it be able to run, and please send me your link to your web site when you can and post when completed
Will it be able to run? I'm sure I could rig up a pull-back motor and sell motorized versions at extra cost.
-Fred
Also Houston, Dallas, Atlanta and New Jersey Transit.
All were regularly available to the public, except the SEPTA ones were done for SEPTA only and they sold them through their transit store. The Las Vegas ones, I found out, were NOT "painted" by Road Champs". They bought a load of blank buses from Raod Champs and then had them stamped by a company in southern California. (If anyone has the Las Vegas version, you can see a BIG difference in the texture of the printing.)
And *I* have done custom painted versions for San Francisco Muni, North County Transit (Oceanside, California) and Orange County Transit District (California) as well.
All were regularly available to the public, except the SEPTA ones were done for SEPTA only and they sold them through their transit store.
I find it funny that the Road Champs Flxible is exclusively available in the SEPTA store, because the price tag says it's a Neoplan! It's one thing to get it wrong, but when you're the only place that sells it, that's worse!
What they are trying to do is calm it off as one of the Neos, since of course SEPTA never had and never will have one Flxible Metro on their metrobus fleet. Shows how accurate their model vehicles are. The RTS banks aren't even slope-backed, even though I know that would be impossible to get done, but it's still a big error. The only accurate SEPTA vehicles I have seen them sell was the Kawasaki LRVs (although these aren't being sold anymore), the PCC cars, and the Bombardier cars and the AEM-7 engines. There is a company in Wynnwood that makes all kind of rail cars, with many SEPTA models, for an exclusive cost (pretty expensive).
A slopeback RTS bank could be pulled off with the right modification; in fact, I have a 1:43 scale resin model of a Flxible Metro "D" that I have converted to a Grumman 870 by simply cutting the back and giving it a slight arch, then filling in the cuts thereof. Also, I filled in the grilles up front and cut some plastic to make the flush side windows. Additionally, it has been cut down from a 40' to a 35'.
The bus looks great; all it needs now is paint and it's home free.
Another modification I would make to the RTS is to can those cheesy race car wheels and put in some nice bus-style rims (including tandems), probably from an 18-wheeler.
Hot Wheels made a slopeback RTS, as did Galoob in their Micro Machines series. The latter was also made with working head, interior, and tail lights and kneeling suspension. I am currently making a model of the Baltimore MTA RTS-II out of the Hot Wheels version, complete with bus wheels and tandems.
-F.
Actually, I'm not sure which is funnier, the fact that the pricetag says Neoplan, or that SEPTA is selling a model of a bus it never ran. They should at least try to pass it off as an NABI; the grille is closer :).
I have that Hot Wheels RTS in the School Bus scheme stashed somewhere from my childhood day of playing with the things... I only remembered after it was posted here.
That's the one; they also had one in an LA-type scheme and another from their "Tattoo Machines" series with bad early 90s graffiti all over the white bus, such as "NOT!" and "EXCELLENT!". I think I still have at least one of each in storage.
-F.
Does this company in Wynnewood have scale model Almond Joys? I know that this more for subtalk, but I've figured to ask anyway.
The company name is Imperial Hobby Productions. They do have a website, but unfortunately, I don't have it bookmarked or I'd pass on the URL.
I have done custom Road Champs Flxibles as well; a constant favorite is WMATA in various numbers (I just finished 9832 for Trevor Logan and am now starting striping on 9815 for another order); also, I have converted some of these into Grumman 870s and did them up in the Valley Metro colors. To see the Grumman, check out the link below:
members.aol.com/Fredman176/myhomepage/grumman1.jpg
I have also removed the Sutrak unit and cut one down to a 35' Grumman; I have the basic bodywork done. All I need to do now is lay some paint on it, and it's a done deal!
-Fred
any chance of getting a 35" Grumman as well/2 for the price of one?
With the extensive bodywork involved, I would have to charge for one of these separately. However, do let me know if you'd be interested; thanks!
-Fred
never mind, i will stick with the wrap grumman i ordered from you. the check will be out on monday
Gotcha; thanks!
-F.
i own about 13 of the Las Vegas buses, and am getting another one, plus one done exclusivley by Flixible. I wish RTS would come out with one in HO scale, any word from Road Champs or APM on it?
Road Champs basically is no longer. They were sold by the folks in Caldwell, New Jersey -- to a company in Malibu, California. They now market only police cars. They do not respond to any e-mails regarding buses, but if you send one about a police car, they answer right away.
I had seen some of the Flxible Metros in Houston Metro colors in blue packages dated 1999; I'm not sure if they are still made, but I do know that Road Champs announced the cease of City and Tour Bus production in 1998. All I know is that these buses are rare to find, and apart from the ones in my personal collection, I only have a slight few left for customizing.
Folks, if you want one of these painted up in your TA's colors, contact me now; I don't know how long I'll have these buses left.
-F.
One done by Flxible? Really? Give me more details on this one.
Also, on eBay it is always a good idea to look under the search word "flxible". I've found (and sold) some really neat stuff under that keyword.
Fred Donaher
eBay ID: flxible
I bought these about 5 years ago; they are hard to find here in Virginia. You can always try eBay; I also have a small handful of them and can custom paint select city liveries for additional cost.
Contact me for more details; have a great week!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Just heard tonight from the owner of APM that the GM New Look model in HO Scale is due out in the fall of this year.
There was a problem with the company that APM had making the shells going out of business and they needed to find another company to make the shells. All that's been worked out now so the design is back on track.
RDChilds
That's great news! Hopefully they will include the A/C units on these, as they are not easy to scratchbuild. I am currently doing just that to make a 1:64 scale model of our 1973 GMC 3302 which we have preserved in the museum. It is a rare 30' Fishbowl, and we have one of only a few ever built.
Speaking of which, we think this bus may be next in line for rehabbing to running condition; however, its engine is locked up. It has a rare gas engine that was later converted to diesel (I think it's called the Toroflow?); it was apparently based on a Buick automotive V6 design and was lauded as not being a very good engine.
Our local TA will be retiring some 25' 1988 Skillcraft buses this year. The buses themselves aren't all that great, but they do have strong-running Cummins engines. We have thought about retrofitting the engine and its 4-speed OD transaxle to the Fishbowl; however, this would take away from its originality, and I have always leaned towards DD engines. However, the Cummins is still running well, and the original 1973 engine for this bus has a spotty reputation, so it may be the best option for getting the coach back on the road. Any suggestions, folks?
Fred
You might want to E-mail the Ohio Museum of Transportation (info@omot.org) about possibly purchasing a Toroflow from them as they have several spares taken out of TDH3502's for backups to the TDH3502 they have preserved. I'm not sure if they will part with them but it can't hurt to ask.
RDChilds
I'll look into that; I'm not sure what we have for funds as they are mostly being tied up between insurance for our running fleet and restoration of our 1979 Grumman 870 but will discuss it with the board. Thanks!
-Fred
What museum is your baby Fishbowl in ? I think there were only 512 ever built. City of Long Beach, Long Island and Clearwater, FLA, among other places had them.
Did they use the same engine as baby Old-Looks built until 1967 ?
I'm not sure; I know the Toroflow was used in some of the 1950s Old Looks that we had in Roanoke. Also, Roanoke is where our baby Fishbowl is stored. You may see it at our website:
www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
The Toroflow was used in the baby old look (TDH3501, TDH3502) which was made up through 68.
GM goofed big time I felt by not using a regular 6V-71 engine in the baby new looks like Flxible did with the 35096-6 model they made. If they would have used a 6V-71 and made them more compatable with the larger buses they made, they probably would have sold a lot more of them.
This is true; it is to my understanding that baby Fishbowls were made with light-duty parts instead of the heavy-duty equipment in their larger 35' and 40' siblings, as opposed to Flxible, who used heavy-duty transit parts across the board. Also, this helped cut tooling and production costs since there were no light-duty pieces specially made for the 30' Flx New Looks.
In retrospect, this was a very smart idea.
-F.
This is true; it is to my understanding that GM used light-duty parts for the baby Fishbowls, as opposed to Flxible, who used heavy-duty transit parts across the board. This also helped cut production costs as there were no separate light-duty pieces cast for the 30' Flx New Looks. In retrospect, it was a very smart idea.
-F.
Unfortunately I've never seen either baby fishbowl except in photos. I see that the TDH-3301 was a third generation fishbowl. Would I be correct in assuming that the TDH-3302 was a fourth generation fishbowl with the EIP's?
Wayne
I believe so; you may take a look at our coach to verify. To do that, simply go to our website:
www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
Thanks!
-Fred
The APM model is going to be a TDH5303 and A/C will be available for the models in kit form. Pre-painted generic liveries will not have A/C initially and special runs of specific systems will have it if that system had A/C.
APM is also talking about including the batwings as an option depending on how much aggrivation they are to produce. I'll find out more later on that.
RDChilds
I don't see batwings as a problem. Lighted ones, maybe. Say...that's a good project for me! Hmm....maybe if I get a lot of free time on my hands...
-F.
Any idea when they will be avaible to buy, and when they are,where can i buy them. i would love to add them to my bus fleet
Be patient. Not until at least the fall of 2001, and that's IF there are no problems in completing the molds, etc.
They should be available by the Fall of this year. You would be able to get them direct from APM at http://www.transauthority.com/ as soon as they are available.
All I know for sure on them is that they are a TDH5303, will have a bi-fold rear door, optional A/C (on kits), no A/C on pre-painted models (special system orders may or may not have A/C depending on if the system had it or not). Batwings are still being contemplated as an option as well but it depends on the logistics of it.
If there are any more developments on it, I'll post it here.
RDChilds
Are you telling us that this is NOT the final routings for both the X21/22 as of yet.
Did you happen to find out from the ATU 726 on what the exact routings might be for the X21/22.
Since I read on this post that Ulmer Park might loose more routes this spring, are there going to be other bus moves going from one depot to another in Brooklyn this spring.
If read BT a few postings back stated that UP was losing a few lines to other depots.Read the post before you ask the quetions.
If you had read correctly, he said OTHER than the UP moves.
Is there going to be other bus moves like to Manhattan,Or Queens?
Who knows.
Dominick Bermudez.
you answered the question. we will know when we see it happen.
Break out your Bellbottoms, wack colored shirts, and your Ford Pintos 'cause we're going back in time to the late 1970s to see the rebels of the era! The transit rebels that is.
In the late 70s GMC and Flxible cast off the nerdy pink glasses of the New Look era, threw on some shades, got the Jeri-Curls, and donned their funkiest digs as they sent the 70s out with a bang!
They ushered in the ADB era by designing the two baddest boys the transit industry had ever seen. Forget the wussy New Looks, these buses had attitude, bad attitude!
GMC was first with the super bad GMC RTS-II-01! This bad boy had been hidin' out from "da man" since the late 60s, but now he was ready to torch the town with his sleek new design sendin' the ladies in a frenzy with his streamlined rear! As the New Looks were being sent to the scrap heap, these bad boys were lighting the world afire! These buses were some real disco infernos, baby! Or at least they felt that way. With the sleek handsome rear end even Mel Gibson would envy, these buses had some of the baddest A/C units ever! It was time for "da man" to put a stop to these rebels! They capped off those behinds and sent them into obscurity on school trippers letting the chillins of the GEE-TO suffer like some boilin' scrimps! By the 1980s, these boys were so bad they were lighting themselves afire! Yoooooowwwww baby, that's hot stuff!
In 1978, Grumman-Flxible released that Cadillac Rebel, the Grumman 870 Model-A. Despite it's square name and apperance this was one bad mutha- (SHUT YO MOUTH!) But I'm just talking about the Grumman 870s! Every rule in the book they broke! From A-Frame Regulations to Fire Hazards, some of these babies racked up an amazing 111 infractions! These babies calmed down in the 80s though as they were rebuilt to their wussy cousin, the Metro's standards! These buses never quite got "it" back like their GM peers who are still pimpin TAs nationwide.
There you have it cat-daddies! The Bad Boys of the 70s revisited! Can you dig it! Smooth! These rebels broke everything, A/C, Frames, you name it, it was broken! The 70s; Disco, Mary Jane, Sex, and the ADB Bad Boys! Sweet baby!
Hey, the A-frame in NYC was caused by a to large an engine on a to small and weak a-frame.The only way they had the problem resolved is with the NYC DOT's order of 870's.If it wasn't for that problem ,the the TA's Grumman 870's would have lasted until at least 96/97 like they did at NJT or last yr like at JBL.
[If it wasn't for that problem ,the the TA's Grumman 870's would have lasted until at least 96/97 like they did at NJT or last yr like at JBL.]
Actually, many of the ex-TA Grummans ran in NJ until last year, when the large order of RTS's in the 1000 series were delivered. Some of those Grummans are still running in Newark Airport monorail substitute service.
Sorry to disagree boys, but the Grummans wouldnt've lasted that long in NYC working for the TA. The Flxible Metro-As were rickety buses and the Grummans had other problems besides the infamous A-Frame. I'm certain they would've left when the last of the Blitz were retired. I mean if the TA is scrapping RTS at 13, then I'm sure the Grummans which are half the bus an RTS is, would've gotten the axe just as soon if not sooner.
[Sorry to disagree boys, but the Grummans wouldnt've lasted that long in NYC working for the TA. The Flxible
Metro-As were rickety buses and the Grummans had other problems besides the infamous A-Frame.]
Well QSC (and LI Bus) operated their 870's right into 90's (I think 1994) and they were a "me too" part of the NYCTA order. Also in reference to the GM and Flxible new looks in NYC. The GM new looks were obviously some top-notch workhorses. I'd go as far as saying that to this day they're unmatch because... They went through the 70's fiscal crisis in NYC in which deferred maintenace was the rule and still lasted for many years. We don't even have to talk about WMATA's GM new looks (some of which were on loan to NYCTA) and their proven durability. There's no doubt that RTS is a durable bus too, but the GM new looks definitely paved the way for them. Also - I'd wonder how they would've done if they had to go through years of deferred maintenance. IMHO the GM new looks are the durability champs.
Wayne
>>>They went through the 70's fiscal crisis in NYC in which deferred maintenace was the rule and still lasted for many years.<<<
You think NYC had financial troubles and deferred maintenence? Houston was a rolling scrap yard during the 70s and the New Looks were belly up by 15! FIFTEEN! That's Flxible years! The only reason they weren't scrapped in the 70s was because Metro and it's predecessors were fiancially strapped, and short on buses. How short? Rush hour pull out was about 350 buses and they always broke down. New Looks couldn't handle the deferred maintenance here and had to be rebuilt.
>>>Also - I'd wonder how they would've done if they had to go through years of deferred maintenance.<<<
From what RTS T80 206 tells me, SMART has pretty horrible maintenance. They also have a fleet of all RTS buses. Also, it's not like the New Looks in NYC lived their whole lives with horrible maintenance conditions. They probably went through five years at the most. Look at some of the NYC Private Companies, I doubt their maintenance is anything to write home about.
>>>IMHO the GM new looks are the durability champs.<<<
By default. The New Look design is 43 years old, the RTS-04 design is 20 years old. We all know there are still 20 year old RTS buses running around, I haven't seen any 40 yeard old New Looks working for any major companies lately. Given the favorable conditions the New Looks had; financially strapped TAs, bus market dominance, constant rebuilding throughout the 80s, and inferior quality foreing buses in the 80s, the RTS could last TWICE as long as the New Look. But theirs too much competition now, and the attitudes of TAs have changed along with their pocket book.
Actually, the RTS is 24 years old if you factor in the initial slopebacks of 1977. Quite an advanced bus for its time, too!
I believe in New Looks; I love their style, and I know that the better one lasted, especially when they were well maintained. Case in point: we have a 1966 GM 5303 in our museum fleet with over one million documented miles on its original engine, and it still runs well. Also, a 1959 Cleveland 5301 is still running like a top at OMOT of Ohio.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
[Also, it's not like the New Looks in NYC lived their whole lives with horrible maintenance conditions.
They probably went through five years at the most. Look at some of the NYC Private Companies, I doubt their
maintenance is anything to write home about.]
I'd have to disagree with you on how long the NYCTA new looks were neglected and/or received subpar maintenance. I don't have any knowledge of Houston's financial crisis, but New York City's was so serious that the city nearly went bankrupt and after being turned down by the Feds for assistance the Albany came to NYC's aid.
I speak about NYC new looks because although I was very young at the time I remember the buses, their assignments and more importantly, their condition very well. My opinion is that this went on well over 5 years. NYCTA last GM new looks the T6H-5309A/10A saw many years about subpar maintenance and they were delivered in 1972/73. It wasn't until soon after the Grumman crisis did the NYCTA maintenance pratices improve significantly. Of course by this time NYCTA newest GM new looks were already close to 10 years old. I can't really comment on the NYC-DOT private's new looks because - again I was very young and I grew up in The Bronx. Liberty Lines Express and New York Bus Service are the only DOT buses in the Bronx (and QSC's QBX1 route). In those days I have seen some slightly "battered" Liberty Lines buses, but overall they were usually in good condition. As far as NYBS is concerned... I don't think there has ever been a bad looking or poorly maintained bus in their fleet.
It's clear to me that when the NYCTA became serious maintenance in the early 1980's it was (1) too late for the GM new looks and most of the Flxible new looks and (2) the hundreds of RTS that arrived nearly every year were the benefactors. OK - The Blitz rebuilds enjoyed good maintenace for a few years also.
Wayne
Ok thanks I thought most them were retired with the 1st Nova order(the 2600's)
Does anyone know what moved into the Zegera Av Facility in the Bronx from other NYCT facilities & when did this facility opened.
Finally, since Ulmer Park may loose more routes, does anyone know if NYCT might look to add another Brooklyn Bus Depot by this spring.
Zerega Ave is going to be taking over for ENY as the CMF(ENY is getting this back for more depot space)and new depot is being built on the old Avis site at Grand Ave & 49th Street(even though it is located in Queens like FP it is going to be a Brooklyn depot(to be precise the long awaited XT replacement)
**For the Employees Only**
(you need an employee pass to enter the premesis)
If you want a "non-issue" TA jacket (or other related items), they will be made available and orders taken on February 16th in Brooklyn at Ulmer Park Depot in the crew between 12 noon and 5 PM. All depot and union logos are available as I understand it.
These are the blue satin jackets with the gold writing. RTS and Orion embriodery is available. If you want to call to confirm, please email me and I will send you the phone number of the salesman.
Is the Zerega Av Facility open, if so, when did this Facility opened, if this Facility didn't open, when is it scheduled to open & will it be a replacement for the ENY Bus Depot & what will happen after the CMF at ENY moves to Zegera Av.
Does anyone know if the Painting Facility at Crosstown will move to Zerega Av, if so, when will this accur & what will happen to Crosstown if the Painting Facility moves to Zerega Av, have there been talk of reopening Crosstown as a Bus Depot.
Like I said before there will be room for more buses at ENY(fewer buses parked on Jamaica Ave and the surrounding area)
the answers to his continued questions are yes ,no, and maybe.now follo stop asking the same questions over and over again.
I heard that flyers were distrubuted to South Shore residents last week.
Can you post up the flyer because I would like to know on what the flyer said.
I heard that flyers were distrubuted to South Shore residents last week.
Can you post up the flyer because I would like to know on what the flyer said.
no
It seems like whenever there is mention of newer RTS buses here, there is an underlying fear that all new RTS deliveries are or soon will be for the RTS-08 Wide Front Door model.
I'd like to set everyone straight and say that the wide front door is an option, it's not just something NovaBUS applies to new RTS's to the surprise of its customers.
I have no problem with the looks of the RTS-08 itself, but I DO have a problem with this bus being called an RTS! It is totally different! Half the beauty of an RTS is that sleek, sexy contoured front, and the RTS-08 mutilates this!
But, none of you worry, because the RTS-06 design is alive and well. Here in Detroit, we are currently taking delivery of 100 of them with roof-mounted air conditioning (this looks very strange.)
Neil
¡Qué viva el RTS!
Wow, you've been reading our minds! Praise the lord that Detroit is a smart TA and not jumping on the "let's try something new" bandwagon. We have enough of those as it is.
Wow, you've been reading our minds!
It's an RTS thing. Te thought of RTS-08's frightens me, too.
Praise the lord that Detroit is a smart TA
I would not go that far...
and not jumping on the "let's try something new" bandwagon.
Detroit has two bus systems, the city and the suburban.
Recently, the suburban system (SMART) announced that it will be replacing its entire fleet of 280 buses will (angry grunt) Gillig Low Floors. That's right, 287 piece of garbage, untested, unproved, ugly and unsightly Gillig low floors will be 100% of the SMART fleet come 2003, and not a single RTS shall remain (even though by then, SMART's oldest RTS will be a 1993 model), thus will end the RTS's 25 year reign as the standard Detroit suburban bus. (the rest of SMART's current fleet is Gillig Phantoms and Champion light-duty van-buses).
The city bus system, DDOT, is the one still buying the RTS's. I commend this commitment to buying quality, reliable, and proven buses. However, some ignorant groups have tried to criticize DDOT for this. There have been editorials in the newspaper that celebrates SMART's purchase of low floor buses and call DDOT 'stubborn and uninnovative' for still buying standard-floor buses. What these uninformed critics do not know is that introducing low floor buses involves a lot more than lowering the floor. Detroit's city streets are in horrible condition, combine that with a crush loads and DDOT's fair-at-best maintenace (which, by the way, is 100 times better than the suburban bus maintenance) and I would not give a low floor one month to survive on city routes.
All that being said, rumors are flying that DDOT might buy some Nova LFS's. Nonetheless, I applaud them for sticking to what's proven for their main fleet and being prudent and testing low floors before replacing the entire fleet with them.
Neil
>>>Recently, the suburban system (SMART) announced that it will be replacing its entire fleet of 280 buses will (angry grunt) Gillig Low Floors. That's right, 287 piece of garbage, untested, unproved, ugly and unsightly Gillig low floors will be 100% of the SMART fleet come 2003, and not a single RTS shall remain (even though by then, SMART's oldest RTS will be a 1993 model), thus will end the RTS's 25 year reign as the standard Detroit suburban bus. (the rest of SMART's current fleet is Gillig Phantoms and Champion light-duty van-buses).<<<
What uninformed fools run this operation!? I'm seeing the intelligence of my fellow man drop before my eyes!
I wish Metro-Houston had the brains DDOT has. I like D40LFs and all, but Metro is talking about building a fleet around these things. We're supposed to have 500 by 2002 or so. We have over 300 now. I'm hoping they'll buy some 2002 RTS buses to finsih off the Ikarus Fleet and some of the LNG vehicles. Sigh, one can only dream.
What uninformed fools run this operation!?
The jury's still out on that one. SMART has some people who definately know what they're doing, but I still often doubt a lot of their moves, this being one of them. What few Park and Ride customers they carry are going to hate riding uncomfortable low floor buses on freeway runs. They should hold on to a few RTS's just for these routes.
I'm seeing the intelligence of my fellow man drop before my eyes!
What is that supposed to mean?
I wish Metro-Houston had the brains DDOT has. I like D40LFs and all, but Metro is talking about building a fleet around these things.
I know you like RTS's and all, but that aside, do you honestly think that the D40LF is a suitable bus for Houston? If so, then is Metro really that stupid for buying these buses? At least they are smart enough to buy specialized buses for their express routes (4700's) rather than using urban buses there.
I'm hoping they'll buy some 2002 RTS buses to finsih off the Ikarus Fleet and some of the LNG vehicles. Sigh, one can only dream.
Hang in there. I'm no Metro prophet, but I do have a feeling that Metro and other 'Class 2' transit systems are going to buy a lot of RTS's pretty soon once they come to their senses and realize that low floors are not appropriate for all routes. And what do you have against those Ikaruses anyway? They seem like they fare pretty well in Houston.
Neil
¡Qué viva el subjuntivo!
>>>I'm seeing the intelligence of my fellow man drop before my eyes!
What is that supposed to mean?<<<
I'm referring to SMART's decison.
>>>do you honestly think that the D40LF is a suitable bus for Houston? If so, then is Metro really that stupid for buying these buses?<<<
They are doing fine for what they do. I heard that some of them are too low to be run on some of the older streets though. I think they've been raised an inch or so since then. Metro is like Houston, something big, but not something special. To make up for that, they always want to go for the latest trend or new thing. Low Floors are in.
>>>And what do you have against those Ikaruses anyway? They seem like they fare pretty well in Houston.<<<
Some do okay. Most are sub-par. They're very fast, some faster than a D40LF, a feat in itself. But they're VERY unreliable. They weren't used that much until Metro began killing off the Flxibles and RTS buses. Today during rush hour, 90% of the Ikarus fleet is in service. Four years ago it was more like 40% or less. They were weekend warriors, subbing for RTS on Saturdays and especially Sundays. They're decent for what they are.
I always knew that they still had the RTS-06. When I first saw the RTS-08 I did not realize at all that it was an RTS. That is how different it looks from the RTSs of the past. However, although I can make a few connections, like the round body and the headlights (not exactly how they stick out-just the headlights alone) I can see how it could somehow be an RTS. However, the front door is just awful. I just had to say that.
Is the RTS-08 the one with the squared-off afterthought of a front end and the flatter windshield? If so, I HATE those....they look like something I ate and dropped! I MUCH prefer the original GMC-style RTS nose any day.
-Fred
Maybe if the RTS-08 was more of an original design that wasn't based on the RTS design, maybe it would be better.
I like the original RTS design; I just hate that some of the newer ones have that ugly squared-off front end. It just ruins the bus.
-Fred
yeah, it seriously does.
The original 08, developed by TMC and used by CTA and SMART in Detroit, actually DID resemble the RTS 01-06 quite nicely. It maintained a similar large wide bumper, the higher mounted headlights, and a similar windshield/destination sign profile. Had TMC opted for a bi-parting door instead of a slide glide, they probably could have dropped the 06 without much fuss. It was the second and third iterations of the 08/WFD that have really irritated fans and operators alike.
Not a big seller, too bad, because it is the modern day version of the GMC Fishbowl Suburban, is the RTS Super Suburban. It even has under body luggage loaders, unlike the Suburbans Golden Gate Transit has. It has no rear door door whatever, not even for a wheelchair lift, as on GGT. Therefore, the wheelchair lift is the front door, and so must have that ugly Chicago front end. I don't see why they had to square off the destination sign and bumper.
I believe Centro in Syracuse has some.
Do anybody have a photo of the RTS super suburban? So like that I could see how it looks like.
Dominick Bermudez.
The Nova Bus website has a pic of it if I am not mistaken.
It does...and thankfully the bus pictured still looks like an 06, and NOT a tacky WFD.
-F.
On the Nova website, the Super Suburban is now listed as the "RTS Express". It is indeed a WFD with roof air, and they put a ridiculous 50s style hot-rod-flame paint job on it. You have to open the Acrobat pdf file to see it.
I like the idea of the flame job...just not the flaming ugly WFD front end.
-F.
I don't know whether or not it's because I've got used to it or the pain sheme made it look better, but I'm starting to like the WFD design a little bit, just like how I'm starting to like the design of the New Flyers (I used to hate the bug eyed front). I think that what Novabus was trying to do with the design is keep the big bumper look, but they had no place to put the headlights, so they just put it in the bumper. If they connected the light set and the bumper together, it would look better. Besides, I guess they call it an RTS because it is "the most durable bus" (it's in the RTS express file)
I used to think that the New Flyers were ugly too because of their headlight configuration; however, I became used to their looks at my old TA when I drove there. However, the RTS and Flxible Metros looked tons better hands down.
I still can't get over that ugly front end on the WFDs; I'd almost say that even a New Flyer looks better up front. However, the WFD's rear looks better than the NF's any day.
Could NovaBUS still redo the front end of the WFD version of the RTS with bi-parting doors, retaining the original RTS profile, if it wanted to? And if so, how much re-engineering would be involved?
Hopefully the new low-floor RTS will be faithful to the original design concept.
Hopefully the new low-floor RTS will be faithful to the original design concept.
I was hoping for the same. In fact, I had concocted a vivid image in my head of exactly what a low floor RTS would look like all the while retaining those trademark features that are so distinctly RTS. It would be very possible to keep the sleek, contoured nose AND the swing-slide parting pantograph doors with a low floor design, same goes for the back doors. Keeping in mind that the RTS's conceptual predecesor, the RTX, was a "semi" low floor, and it looked reasonably like today's RTS, the original styling should not be too hard to preserve.
Unfortunately, from what little inside information I have, I understand that the low floor RTS does not even scantly resemble the standard RTS, either the -06 model or the dreaded -08 model. If NovaBUS wants to make a new low floor bus, then they have my blessing. But if they try to pull that "Completely New Bus Design Under the RTS Name" crap again, they will lose a few points with me. They're pushin' it by passing the RTS-08 WFD off as an RTS, but a completely new design that is low floor and nothing at all like a real RTS? That just doesn't fly with me.
You New York folk should be getting a pretty good idea of what the RTS-LF looks like; I'm pretty sure that NYCMTA's demands are the only reason NovaBUS designed such a bus. And how about the Orion VII? What's up with all of these unknown low floor designs?
Neil
¡Qué viva el subjuntivo!
I was trying to get a mental picture in my head last night as I caught 6356(one of the few Orion VI's that the NYCTA has)From what I keep hearing it is suppose to be based on the NFI/NABI design of a Low Floor(front half low floor/back half high floor)At least in New York ,we will get to see this bus this spring or summer.
Nova could very easily make the RTS low floor utilizing the existing RTS styling if they chose to do so. From what I've been hearing it does sound like it's going to be something totally different from the existing RTS in terms of styling which in some ways doesn't surprise me.
I'm getting the impression from the recent offerings of Nova that they want to dump the original styling in favor of thier less attractive designs. I'm not saying this as a fact but as the impression I've received from what they did with the WFD and LFS models
RDChilds
I can see that; from the degeneration of their later styling tweaks, it looks like the RTS low floor is going to be one ugly bus and nowhere NEAR as good-looking as the original design. However, it will still be interesting to see where NovaBus goes with this idea and how it catches on in NY.
If NovaBUS does not stay true to the original RTS design with this new model, it could prove to be a major failure in the marketplace.
Any transit property placing an order for buses with the RTS model designation has the right to expect that they will look like RTS buses.
Hopefully all the rumors regarding the appearance of the final product will prove to be only rumors, and nothing more.
True. I hope the new RTS will look just as good as previous models. With the Flxible Metro gone, it's the last "new"-looking transit bus out there.
-F.
I really hope so. An RTS low floor is possible from the 06 design; hopefully NovaBus agrees with me. After all, that WFD looks like something I ate and dropped!
Nova could easily make a WFD version of the 06 - all it would require is lengthening the front module by 6 inches, and devoting all 6 to widening the existing pantograph front door (an extra three inches to each section). The driver's window would be similarly enlarged. Presto, an 06 with lift ability at either door. The original TMC 08 marketed itself on the ability to handle the full size Luminator MegaMax destination sign, so unless a wide-door 06 also lowered the split between the sign and the windshield, that would also be an issue for some operators, although NJ Transit didn't seem to think that was a problem when it began RTS deliveries in 1996.
Where can I see a picture of the original WFD RTS?
I have a few magazine shots - I'll scan them tonight when I get home from work. When you see the SMART (suburban Detroit) RTS-08, you'll wonder why they changed it from that design at all - this would have been easily accepted as a replacement for the 06 had it remained.
>>Here in Detroit, we are currently taking delivery of 100 of them with roof-mounted air conditioning (this looks very strange).<<
I've guess that you've never benn to Philly. Our (dearly departed) RTS fleet had roof-mounted A/C units (although they were retrofits).
I've guess that you've never benn to Philly. Our (dearly departed) RTS fleet had roof-mounted A/C units (although they were retrofits).
While I never did see SEPTA's slopeback a/c retrofits in person, I did know of their existance. I believe that Houston and a handful of other TA's opted for the roof-mounted retrofit rather than the more common 'cap' which did away with the slopeback.
After those retrofits in the early-mid 80's, it was not until Dallas ordered RTS-08's that roof-mounted a/c was again seen on an RTS, but that hardly counts as Dallas's 4200's are barely RTS's at all. Detroit's are the only RTS-06's I've seen with factory-installed roof-mounted air conditioning. Rightly so, DDOT loves roof-mounted a/c. Their New Flyers, Classics, and Neoplans also have it. I have yet to see any of the new DDOT RTS's in service yet; I've only seen about a dozen of them hanging out at the central maintenance facility without licence plates, radios, or fareboxes.
DDOT was having some problems with a/c on their 1995 RTS-06's, so we'll see how this new arrangement works out.
Neil
Here's a TTC Page with bus sounds including Orion, RTS Buses, Flyers and New Flyers, MCI Classics, and the much revered New Look! Here's the address...
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Lane/6262/
Once again, I am NOT this FOLLO guy, so please have some respect for me.
Hudson,
What are the changes scheduled for the new pick on April 1st.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYCBUSBLINDS
I will be posting all agenda notes ,here,,ONLY
Service Changes..new routes,,etc
Bus and Subway items
write directly to me,and join my news group
what is your E-mail address
Steve
This may have been posted before, so I apologize in advance for repeating this, but ex-Queens Surface #231 is now operated by a private South Jersey based operation and used as a private shuttle for Park Towne Place apartments in Center City Philadelphia. For the most part, the bus is still in it's QSC livery, but "Park Towne Place" has replaced "Queens Surface Corp." Interestingly enough, the lettering (font) is similar.
I also spotted the ex-NYBS fishbowl, and confirmed that the number is #1511.
As y'all may or may not know, RTS_2150 and I had this sort of "story" staring Orion-Bus and Retus-Bus. Of course, he messed up horribly on Orion-Bus's personality, making Orion-Bus look stupid rather than the reckless yet somewhat intelligent bus he is. Now, witness the true nature of Orion-Bus and Retus-Bus in the story, "Power of Orion". Oh, it's not finished by the way, this is only a preview...
Orion-Bus had a big smile on his face (yes, Busians, the living buses, had faces) as he was flying down the highway. He was finally free to travel the world on his own. He saw a sign saying "Edgemont, next exit."
Hmm, Edgemont, that sounds like an interesting place, Orion-Bus thought to himself. He too the exit, not knowing just how interesting this city would be.
Orion-Bus drove through the city, amazed by all of the stores, movie theaters, and restaurants that he passed by. Wow, this is an awesome place, Orion-Bus thought. I guess this would be the perfect place for me to live.
He turned a corner and found a dozen reporters crowded around a bus that he didn't recognize. However, it seemed oddly familiar. Anyway, Orion-bus silently coasted up towards the group of reporters and listened to one of the reports. "This bus, with it's amazing sleek design and aerodynamic design, is the best modern bus for the transit industry of today," a reporter was saying. (You've probably guessed by now that this was an RTS bus)
Orion-bus drove around the bus, making observations as he went. Well, I guess you might say it is sleek for a bus, Orion-Bus thought, but it's not something to be amazed about. When Orion-Bus saw the front of the bus, he was surprised to see that the bus had two eyes and a mouth. A Busian? Orion-Bus wondered.
The bus, taking notice of Orion-Bus, had a smirk on his face and gave Orion-Bus a look as if to say, Well, what a pathetic excuse for a bus you are. How could you ever hope to measure up to a bus like me? (Big mistake)
"Pathetic, huh?" Orion-Bus grumbled. "I'll show you pathetic."
Orion bus turned on his "theme" music at full blast (you really aught to hear it-it's awesome). "Hey, everyone, look at the Orino-Bus," he called out to the reporters.
"What the..." the reporters said in wonder as they stared at Orion-Bus.
Orion-Bus's green paint scheme changed into a full rainbow sheme with the colors cycling down his body. "Prepare to be mystified by the power of Orion," he smiled as he sped around the block.
He reappeared in front of the reporters and stopped sharply without a sound. The reporters were amazed by Orion-bus and left the other bus behind. "Wait, where are you going?" the bus cried.
Only two people heard the bus. "Hey, did that bus just talk?" one asked the other.
"Nah," the other said. "That's the talking bus over there."
They both ignored the bus and jogged over to Orion-Bus. The bus glared at Orion-Bus as he was dancing to the music. An Orion took all the glory away from me! the bus thought angrily. No bus of Orion will take the glory of RTSs, and I'll personally make sure that this doesn't happen.
The story goes on with Orion-Bus's first experience in a bar and where he meets Joe. He lives with Joe and his roomate, Brett, and Retus-Bus, the RTS bus that was in the story, is so jealous and envious of Orion-Bus that he go to all lengths to get rid of him. See, that's the personality of an RTS bus. That's why there were so many battles on Busia between RTSs and the Orions. The New-Looks weren't bad, and were friendly towards all buses, for they understood that they had their time and it was time to let the other buses take over their jobs as they can retire in peace. The New-Looks even help take care of the newborn buses and help everyone keep things in order. This story is actually a series, and when I feel like it I'll actually finish this story, and then continue the series. It combines the life of 2 college guys, Orion-Bus's crazy schemes and antics, and Retus-Bus's jealously and evil power. Just another great series created by the Basman. This series is actually based on another story, S Bus. That's how Orion-Bus was created, in that series. Well, as Orion-Bus always says, let the power of Orion mystify you. Oh, and before any Orion-haters and RTS lovers say anything, Orion-Bus is not the average bus of Orion. So, don't underestimate his power.
As y'all may or may not know, RTS_2150 and I had this sort of "story" staring Orion-Bus and Retus-Bus. Of course, he messed up horribly on Orion-Bus's personality, making Orion-Bus look stupid rather than the reckless yet somewhat intelligent bus he truly is. Now, witness the true nature of Orion-Bus and Retus-Bus in the story, "Power of Orion". Oh, it's not finished by the way, this is only a preview...
Orion-Bus had a big smile on his face (yes, Busians, the living buses, had faces) as he was flying down the highway. He was finally free to travel the world on his own. He saw a sign saying "Edgemont, next exit."
Hmm, Edgemont, that sounds like an interesting place, Orion-Bus thought to himself. He too the exit, not knowing just how interesting this city would be.
Orion-Bus drove through the city, amazed by all of the stores, movie theaters, and restaurants that he passed by. Wow, this is an awesome place, Orion-Bus thought. I guess this would be the perfect place for me to live.
He turned a corner and found a dozen reporters crowded around a bus that he didn't recognize. However, it seemed oddly familiar. Anyway, Orion-bus silently coasted up towards the group of reporters and listened to one of the reports. "This bus, with it's amazing sleek design and aerodynamic design, is the best modern bus for the transit industry of today," a reporter was saying. (You've probably guessed by now that this was an RTS bus)
Orion-bus drove around the bus, making observations as he went. Well, I guess you might say it is sleek for a bus, Orion-Bus thought, but it's not something to be amazed about. When Orion-Bus saw the front of the bus, he was surprised to see that the bus had two eyes and a mouth. A Busian? Orion-Bus wondered.
The bus, taking notice of Orion-Bus, had a smirk on his face and gave Orion-Bus a look as if to say, Well, what a pathetic excuse for a bus you are. How could you ever hope to measure up to a bus like me? (Big mistake)
"Pathetic, huh?" Orion-Bus grumbled. "I'll show you pathetic."
Orion bus turned on his "theme" music at full blast (you really aught to hear it-it's awesome). "Hey, everyone, look at the Orino-Bus," he called out to the reporters.
"What the..." the reporters said in wonder as they stared at Orion-Bus.
Orion-Bus's green paint scheme changed into a full rainbow sheme with the colors cycling down his body. "Prepare to be mystified by the power of Orion," he smiled as he sped around the block.
He reappeared in front of the reporters and stopped sharply without a sound. The reporters were amazed by Orion-bus and left the other bus behind. "Wait, where are you going?" the bus cried.
Only two people heard the bus. "Hey, did that bus just talk?" one asked the other.
"Nah," the other said. "That's the talking bus over there."
They both ignored the bus and jogged over to Orion-Bus. The bus glared at Orion-Bus as he was dancing to the music. An Orion took all the glory away from me! the bus thought angrily. No bus of Orion will take the glory of RTSs, and I'll personally make sure that this doesn't happen.
The story goes on with Orion-Bus's first experience in a bar and where he meets Joe. He lives with Joe and his roomate, Brett, and Retus-Bus, the RTS bus that was in the story, is so jealous and envious of Orion-Bus that he go to all lengths to get rid of him. See, that's the personality of an RTS bus. That's why there were so many battles on Busia between RTSs and the Orions. The New-Looks weren't bad, and were friendly towards all buses, for they understood that they had their time and it was time to let the other buses take over their jobs as they can retire in peace. The New-Looks even help take care of the newborn buses and help everyone keep things in order. This story is actually a series, and when I feel like it I'll actually finish this story, and then continue the series. It combines the life of 2 college guys, Orion-Bus's crazy schemes and antics, and Retus-Bus's jealously and evil power. Just another great series created by the Basman. This series is actually based on another story, S Bus. That's how Orion-Bus was created, in that series. Well, as Orion-Bus always says, let the power of Orion mystify you. Oh, and before any Orion-haters and RTS lovers say anything, Orion-Bus is not the average bus of Orion. So, don't underestimate his power.
I would like to know the website(s) for route and schedule information on New Jersey to Manhatten bus transportation. My current interest is Jersey City to Canal street in Manhatten. I am in South Carolina with no knowledge of the bus company names or phone numbers.
Thanks for the help.
NEW JERSEY TRANSITS WEBSITE
Peace,
ANDEE
The closest line that I'm aware of that operates between Jersey City and lower Manhattan is the 120, however that operates express between Bayonne and Wall St.
If you really need to get from Jersey City to Wall St, you can take PATH from Journal Square, Grove St, or Exchange Place; this will take you directly to the World Trade Center area.
There really isn't that much bus service to Canal St/Wall St/WTC via the Holland Tunnel due to width restrictions imposed by the Port Authority (no 102" vehicles are allowed; most NJT buses are 102" wide, however the 120 uses 96" wide Flxibles, while some of the private carriers (Coach USA/Suburban and Academy, mainly) are set to recieve custom built D4000 cruisers that are 96" wide).
[most NJT buses are 102" wide, however the 120 uses 96" wide Flxibles]
Is this true? Somehow I had the impression that all of the 5000 and 6000 series cruisers were 96 foot wide buses, not 102 inch buses, and that the first 102 inch buses NJ Transit received were the 3500 series Flxibles. I could be wrong. Anybody know for sure?
96 feet! That's a pretty big bus!
The following NJ Transit bus types are 96" wide:
3000-3200 Flxibles (3500-3600's are 102")
5000-6000 MC-9's/Eagles
9200 Volvos
The rest are all 102"
96 feet! That's a pretty big bus!
Yeah, but those don't travel through the Holland Tunnel ;)
Yes, you're correct, Sid. I hadn't even thought about the MC-9 buses. Now that you mention it, the Eagles, IIRC, were also 96" wide.
As for the Flxibles, however, most of the earlier Flxibles (ie. the ex-MABSTOA/TA rebuilds; the Metro A, and 870 series) were 102", as were the 1700-series Metro B Transits.
The only buses that go from New Jersey to Lower Manhattan operate only during the rush hours.
There are two from the Jersey City area
NJ Transit #120
Trans-Hudson #33
Otherwise, use the PATH train service for Jersey City to Lower Manhattan.
Or, you can take a bus to the Port Authority terminal at 41st & 8th (via Lincoln Tunnel).
NJT #125 goes from Journal Square.
Alternately, you can take Trans-Hudson #99S from Kennedy Blvd.
From the Port Authority, take a subway downtown (8th Avenue line - the A, C, and E trains go to Canal & 6th).
www.njtransit.com
www.redandtan.com*
*Not to be confused with www.redandtanlines.com, which has schedules for the Bergen and Rockland County buses.
For those of you keeping score, 4543 is the last and only 1986 RTS currently in service at 126th Street Depot. How long it remains at 126 is anybody's guess.
Saw 4498 and 4546 yesterday on the Q32. 4550 this morning was on the Q32. Had 4474 last week there too-another slow poke. Bring 1826 back! LMAO!
Q32#1826Gary- I hope-LOL!
Speaking of 1876 where is this bus residing Nimco, Gershow or is it in TA storage somewhere? As Follo (SI X-bus rider) would say, please post info on bustalk. :<)
I mean 1826 not 1876.
According to Mark Holmes' roster, 1826 is at Crosstown storage yard.
Just wanted to write about my trip to Philly this past weekend. I had to go there to help my grandmother move, but anyway, to the fun stuff, I had quite a few moments, where, as wrestling smarts say, I "marked out". The first being when I got to Philly (via Amtrak of course) and being 4 tracks away from a couple of parked Acela Express trains, then going into the MFL/SSL 30th Street station for my first ever ride on the M-4, and my first ride on SEPTA in about a year. The last time I had ridden the MFL was back in '97 on my babies, the Almond Joy, and although I had been in Philly a few times since then, I hadn't been able to ride the line. Mark out moments while waiting for my train include my fisrt close-up look at an M-4 going eastbound (#1008 was the lead car). I turned every which way to see the trolleys coming through and managed to catch a few in the new paint scheme, and a few in the late-80's scheme. My train finally comes, car #1143 in the lead, I'm dead set on getting the railfan seat and comparing it to the one on the PATCO cars and standing at the end door on the Almond Joy, but the railfan seat was taken (dammit!!) but that's ok, I stayed on 1143, rode to 52nd St., they seemed to accelerate a little better than the AJ's, and they whine on take-off like the AJ's only a little more subdued. Transferred to the 52 bus hoping to get a NABI, but Neoplan Transliner #3264 showed up instead, there were around 20 people on the bus plus the 40 waiting at my stop so I resigned myself to the fact I would be standing but that's ok. I get off at Spruce to catch a 42, again hoping to catch a NABI, but another Neoplan Transliner (3465) shows up, which was cool. Sunday morning it was time for me to go back to school, I catch the 42, this time NABI #5012 shows up, only my second extended ride on the 42 since the RTS days. (#8153 and Neoplan 3434 to be exact), rode all the way to 11th & chestnut, walked over to the Greyhound terminal, on the way there saw a new Neoplan Artic and a 1000-series NJT RTS. Hearing a RTS with a Cummins engine is going to take some getting used to lol. Waited at the Greyhound terminal for my bus, while there spotted NJT's new MCI D4000 #7540 on my favorite route-the 317 (I used to ride it to my great-grandmother's every summer). My bus arrives and a few more mark-out moments, pulling up next to SEPTA NABI #5176 on Market Street, where I get to see the driver's area, and going up North Broad, where I get so see quite a few of the Neoplan AN-460's, one in charter service, a few on the C, and a good number of them on the 55. The last mark out moment, arriving in Doylestown to see Silverliner II and Silverliner IV trains parked next to one another in the new paint scheme. (saw a SL-IV numbered 446, what's up with that?) Then went through the boring countryside, was half asleep, when somewhere in Carbon County (near the Lehigh Gorge) there was some kind of tourist RR, and they had the old Reading Blueliner MU cars in storage there in SEPTA paint. All in all a good time, I know some of this might seem like blah! so what, but when you go to college in a small town and live in a small city without much in going on in the transit scene, it's not that hard to get excited when I go to Philly or any other big city.
Thanks for reading,
Big "transit mark" D
Professor Putter¹s book:
METROCARD MANIA! Fun With Used MetroCards!
This beautiful paperback book includes over 30 different projects using NYC MetroCards. Games, magic tricks, toys, etc. Great for kids from 8 to adult. More info at www.professorputter.com. To order send $5 each + $3.00 (s&h) (outside USA $6.00 s&h) in US money, check or money order made out to: Michael Makman. Send order to: Professor Putter PO Box 755, Planet Station New York , NY 10024-0539
METROCARD & CARDHOLDERS COLLECTORS CATALOG
This is an 8.5 inch x 11inch 20 page booklet printed by the MTA. They later decided not to distribute it. It contains 20 glossy, color pages of actual size photos of 1997-99 commemorative MetroCards & cardholders. Full color photos of the Subway Series 97, Then and Now, Emigrant, JVC Jazz, Healthy City, Ferry Boat, Yankees 98, Subway Cool, Millennial Journeys, Mets International Week plus 63 Cardholders including the complete Great Subway series. All photos are actual size & full color! A beautiful collectors MUST HAVE. The supply is limited. When they are gone, they are gone.
Send $10.00 ea. plus $2. P & H in check or Money Order
made out to: Mike Makman, To: Prof. Putter, Po Box 755
Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
When the MTA published and distributed this book, did they sell it, or was it free of charge?
I don't know if anyone mentioned this. I know the commercial on tv that shows the chickens or roosters that destroy an RTS got mentioned, - but - there is an ad for stopping smoking in the subway - and one of the placards is a picture of an RTS bus - #2606 - with a sign (superimposed) on the side that says "Quit Yet?".
The bus only has the 2606 number - no mention of "New York City Bus" on it - the destination sign says "Not In Service" and its lights are on - It's pretty beat up and looks like its on the road.
Mark's roster lists it as being sold to BLUE WATER BUS CENTER, INC.
flx7595
How ironic; I used to drive for Blacksburg Transit at Virginia Tech, and one of the 35' Flxible Metros there was numbered 2606! (I was told it was the slowest one of the bunch.)
You're like 23 right? It must be great driving a bus so young. Anyway, Metro-Houston has a bus 2606, an Ikarus-American Model 416 LNG powered coach. Three years ago I had the pleasure of seeing this bus get a replacement engine.
Actually, 24. And yes, it is. :)
-F.
Does anyone know if there will be any bus moves when the new pick goes into effect on April 1st, if so, which bus routes will be moved from one depot to another.
Join FDNY's Yahoo E Group. He has sent you two links already.
How do you join that group?
B61 Leonard
The new agenda is due out,shortly
I will be adding here,shortly
Steve
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYCBUSBLINDS
join
corrections-=
groups.yahoo.com/group/NYCBusBlinds
My son was jumping on my lap
Steve
yES IT SAD BUT TRUE.SECOUND TIME OUT OF THE YARD.IT HAPPEN IN YONKERS.
I think at least one person on BusTalk can agree with me; the WFD is an ugly excuse for an RTS. That tacky front end looks like a horrible add-on and ruins the looks of the whole bus. I've always liked the RTS for its sleek design, but this restyling is an insult to the bus.
Here's how I see the RTS-08; guys, have you ever seen a pretty lady walking in front of you that looks really good from behind and thought, "WOW...she's really HOT"....and then she turns around, and UGH...she's got a butt-ugly face! That's pretty much how I see the WFD RTS...a hot chick with an ugly mug. It looks good from behind, and that's about it. As I have said before, it looks like something I ate and dropped!
I've come to a conclusion; there are mixed opinions about the new Flxible Metro which is still produced in China, but at least it still looks recognizable as a Flx. The first time I saw an 08, I thought it was just some cheap piece of crap and not an RTS. If anything, it looks more like a cheap knockoff of an RTS than a genuine article!
So here's what I think should happen; the General Tso's Flx should switch places with the WFD (Whatta F**king Drag) version of the RTS. Once again, we would have shiny new Flxibles at WMATA and everywhere else in the country, and that cheap Chinese knockoff-looking excuse for an American icon can go be ugly somewhere else.
If anyone agrees (or disagrees) with me, please respond. I've stated my humble opinion, so let's hear yours.
-F.
I would be happy to see new Flxibles again (especially at WMATA). The RTS - I really don't care for them.
Wayne
Wayne, although I also like the RTS, I read this with a smile as I am finishing the stripes on a custom model of a WMATA Flxible Metro, my favorite type of bus in their fleet.
-Fred
yeah, the WMATA needs those Flxibles. That's basically what makes the WMATA the WMATA.
AMEN! I really hope there would be a feasible pact with China to bring these buses to the States. I mean, come on, the MetroRail is using Breda cars made in Italy which look pretty much like they fit in there, so what's the difference? A Flxible doesn't necessarily have to be built in our backyard to look like an all-American DC bus.
OK, This I don't see, AT ALL. Now I'm not a total RTS hater, I only like the 1993-1994 TMC RTS-06s. But I've come to love the RTS WFD because its a change over. I'm a person that loves the new, and is willing to give it a fighting chance. At least RTS WFD kept about 90% of the original RTS look.
While I can't say the same for the Egg Roll Flxible. Which China kept lke 25% of the orignal design. If china did to the Flxible what TMC and NOVABUS did to the RTS, maybe I'd give it chance but now I can't. If The Beef Tyriaki On A Stick Flxible should somehow make its way over here, I'll torch that 75% and weld a "REAL" Flxible Metro body on that bus.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
...If The Beef Tyriaki On A Stick Flxible...
Teriyaki is Japanese
How about Sweet and Sour Flxible? It matches my initial reaction to the bus: "They're still making Flxes in China? SWEEEEET!!!". But then I was soured by the fact that they tweaked the design a little more than they should have. I see why Trevor is upset.
-Fred
Trevor, now you're talking. But wouldn't that leave 25% of an orignial Flx rendered useless? Better find one that's wrecked in the front. BTW, your WMATA Flx model is coming along well; I just finished the stripes and am ready to do the numbers.
-Fred
I for one would love to see NYCTA get that Metro E order it was suppose to get 5 yrs ago.
What companies (other than the WMATA) actually got the Metro E's?
WMATA, Baltimore MTA, PAT, Riverside Transit Agency (CA), Suffolk Transit (The Only Lonley 30 Footer).
That's It.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
And don't forget Cleveland RTA; they have 1995 Es. I think that Metro Dade (Miami), NJ Transit, and Tri-Met in Portland also got some unless they are "D"s; I know the above TAs have 1994 models but I'm not sure what part of the year they were built.
I remember seeing a Metro E the last time I was in miami.
That must have been it! The 94s must be early "E"s as they were made in September. I have a model of Metro-Dade Flx no. 9415 here at home.
Ironically, here in Roanoke, our TA (Valley Metro) has a 1994 Gillig Phantom numbered 9415; this is what came to mind when I received my model. And believe me, the two buses look totally different!
Actually, Miami's are late model Metro-Ds right before the E change over, Cleveland and NJ Transit's are Metro-Ds.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
No... they have Metro E's. You know, the ones with the smokestack above the actual body of the bus, no rooftop A/C. I'm certain.
Roof-mounted a/c was an option for Metro D's and Metro E's. I'm not sure why WMATA went back to rear-mounted a/c for the 4000's after roof-mounted a/c on the two previous orders (9700's-9800's.) I think one of the only differences with the E in the protruding exhaust pipe, whereas the D's exhaust pipe was integrated into the back face of the bus.
I'm a little unclear on the features which sequester a Metro E from a Metro D. I usually just refer to all of the newer (square-back, Excel windows) Flxible Metros as Metro D's. I'm also unclear on the characteristics of the Metro C as I usually don't acknowledge that model either.
Flxible Metro E's also have the straight back. I think every bus after teh D had the straight back. I'm not even sure about the C, adn I don't know of any companies that had them.
There were only a handful of Cs made; they were late 91-92 only. I believe Waco Transit has some of these, as does Tri-Met. From what I recall, they still have a slight angle to the back a la the Grumman 870 but have other differences. Someone help me here?
The D came along in 1993 and introduced the boxy, 90 degree angle back end, which in my opiniion was a step back; it took away from the sleek look but not so much that the bus is unrecognizable, which is a good thing. I'm not sure of the exact differences between D's and E's but I LOVE the twin upturned exhausts on the rear panel of WMATA's D's; what a neat look!
-F.
Metro-A = 1983-1986
Metro-B = 1987-Late 1991
Metro-C = Late 1991-1992
Metro-D = 1993-1994
Metro-E = 1995-Close of Flxible
You can not judge a D or a E because of the roof mount A/C or the Exhaust Pipe because the C had both options and the A-E had to Exhaust Options.
As For The Metro-C, Yes, not too many properties have them, off hand I can say that NJ Transit (5 CNG Versions), Baltimore MTA, Tri-Met, and Have C Version Metros. The C Series Has a distinct look because it's a cross between a B Series and D Series. The C Series kept the B Series body BUT on the interior, the C Series resembled the D Series. It a bridge between design changes. However, NJT Transit own one C Series with a D Series back and that is NGV-1 (Photographed Below).
Also the A & B resemble each other too BUT with slight changes which were the Driver's Area Window, The Rear Grills on the sides of the bus, and a design in instrumentation on the dash, other than that, the A & B Series are twins. Just like the D & E Series are twins with VERY slight difference.
METRO-A
METRO-B
METRO-C
METRO-C with D Back
METRO-D
METRO-E
Hope this helps the understanding on the Metro Series of Flxible.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
LRTA have some Metro C's. the numbers are.
LRTA Flxible Metro C Year:1992 9200-9224.
All of the Metro C's that LRTA owns are all 35 Foot buses.
Dominick Bermudez.
A slight correction on the LRTA Flxible Metro C's numbers. They are 9201-9222.
There aren't too many Flxibles in New England. Besides the LRTA, the others that I'm aware of in New England are as follows:.
Portland, Maine METRO: 1990 35 foot Metro B's (9001-9021), they also have 1, maybe more? 1988 Metro B 40 footers (I've seen 8801, haven't seen any other 40 footers though)
Berkshire Regional Transit Authority (Pittsfield MA) has some 1992 Metro C 35 footers, unsure how many, I do believe their numbers are 92xx.
Cape Ann Transit Authority (Gloucester MA) has 5 1995 Metro E's (9501-9505) 2 or 3 of those are 30 footers, the remainder 35 footers.
Mark Watson
Maybe this is due to that fact that I haven't ridden a Metro D in such a long time, and probably only once, and I haven't ridden a B in such a long time too, but what is the diffence between the interior design?
Ok the A & B Series Inteiror has the exact same interior except on the 1990-1999 B Series which has the 90 degree straight up and down back interior wall, while everything pre-1990 was that slight slanted interior back wall.
The C, D, & E Series All have the exact same interiors, except that C still carried the A & B Series Style Side Windows. The D changed over to the Excel Windows. Also The C Series started the new drivers side control panel and drivers partition.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I personally like the Excel Windows better than the first ones. I think that really makes the Flxible bus cool.
Trevor, thanks for the explanation and the great photos; let me know if you can dig up anything on the Metro "G". Ever since I discovered news of it on your site I have been a curious George!
-Fred
And Also Tri-Mets are Late Model Ds Too!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
WMATA didn't get all of theirs. The rest of the order was completed by Orion.
The CTA (Chicago) has some. I never rode one but I got pictures (http://www.orenstransitpage.com).
"The CTA (Chicago) has some."
330 of them to be exact. 6000-6229 were delivered (I believe) between March and October, 1995. 6230-6329 arrived in the Spring of '96. Both groups feature the squared backs, over-the-engine AC units, and roof-mounted vertical exhaust stacks with lids. I don't know whether they'd be classified as Metro-Ds or Metro-Es. Anybody?
-Dan Terkell
E's. E's all the way. If they are 1995 and 96s, they are definitely E's.
330 of them to be exact. 6000-6229 were delivered (I believe) between March and October, 1995. 6230-6329 arrived in the Spring of '96. Both groups feature the squared backs, over-the-engine AC units, and roof-mounted vertical exhaust stacks with lids. I don't know whether they'd be classified as Metro-Ds or Metro-Es. Anybody?
I would not call CTA's 6000's either Metro D's or Metro E's, I would call them Metro CTA-2's!
There is so much custom work done on CTA's Flxs that they are barely Flxibles at all. The taillights are unlike any I've ever seen on a Flx. CTA Flxs came with the thicker, Excel window frames as early as 1991. On the back doors, the window does not go all the way to the bottom and there is actually a window frame for the upper part of the door rather than the standard 'the window is the door' for Flx Metro back doors. And possibly the most unFlxible feature of these buses is the front doors. They are the only Flxible Metros I know of without the signature bi-fold doors. They have slide-gilde doors with three windows, not too much different looking than an RTS-08.
I have never heard anyone put a class specification on CTA's Flxs. I rarely even hear them called Metros. They are just buses Flxible custom-built for CTA.
Neil
The windows on the WMATA's Flxibles don't go all the way to the bottom of the bus. And also, what do you mean the window is the door? the WMATA had frames on the windows, or at least something surrounding the windows on the back door.
The CTA E's are 1995s, and the WMATA E's are 1996s. I think that was the last Flx order ever completed (especially since Orion had to finish out). In fact, I once drove for Blacksburg Transit (VA) who was to be next in line for new Metro Es, but Flx had already closed up, so they had to wait until 1998 for some New Flyer LFs. Pity.
If it wasn't for that, the Flxibles would still have a good name in Blacksburg as their 1986-87 B's are now regarded by everyone there as the "dogs" of the fleet because the NFs are the newest and have all kinds of fancy little gadgets, and now the Metros are the oldest buses there.
Personally, I liked driving the Flxes better than the NFs any day, and I still think they look TONS better than the new kids on the chocks.
-F.
The Port Authority in Pittsburgh ordered 150 Metro E's,but only got 100 because the company closed!Our 1993 Metro D's have Voith transmissions while our Metro E's have Allison transmissions.They both have the a/c system in the back of the bus.Recently our Flxibles are getting refurbished and receive new colors and seats.These are considered slow buses here because of all our hills.
How many does Suffolk Transit have of those 30 Foot Flxible buses?
Did any got the new paint job like the 1999 Orion5's?
Dominick Bermudez.
Suffolk Transit Flxible Metro:
Partial VIN-numbers are PD104156 to PD104182 (27 units)
Suffolk have 27 of these Metro E's.Oh I see. Do these buses run the S1?
Dominick Bermudez.
I think that ST is running Gillig's on the S-1. If you can contact EBT, Inc. (a division of Education Bus Service, on Sunrise Highway in West Babylon/Amityville) perhaps they can better answer your question.
EBT, Inc. is the contracted operator for that route.
I haven't seen any of the old equipment that operates in the Huntington Area repainted into the new livery.
While Steve Hoskins delivery lists show Suffolk Transit as the receipient of certain units, I don't know if there is a list of which contract operators received which particular units.
Then what route the Suffolk Transit Have the Flxible Metro E's running on? And I don't know EBT phone number. Hart Bus. do you live in suffolk? If you do. what Route you near by and what type of bus is used on that Route?
Dominick Bermudez.
Education Bus lists 631-842-7373, 631-842-9788 and 631-884-2102 in the Suffolk County Telephone Book.
As I have previously posted I live in Huntington and took my Screen Name from Huntington Area Rapid Transit system.
I live near the S-29 & S-54 when they run on Jericho Tpke. Also near the west terminus of the S-41 and S-58. Since the frequency of service is not great its hard to see all the equipment that being used but its the new Orions and old Gillig's.
Perhaps EBT knows which company and route operates what equipment.
Keep us posted.
Hart Bus. DO you have any photos of the buses that Suffolk Transit runs? Can you scan one to see how the new Orions and the old Gilligs.
Do you happin to have any photos of Suffolk Transit Flxible Metro's?
Can you scan one too.
Dominick Bermudez.
Orion5#9916
Hart Bus. DO you have any photos of the buses that Suffolk Transit runs? Can you scan one to see how the new Orions and the old Gillig look like.
Do you happin to have any photos of Suffolk Transit Flxible Metro's?
Can you scan one too.
Dominick Bermudez.
Orion5#9916
That should help out with my reserch.
Dominick Bermudez.
I agree; NYCTA would have benefitted from having sleek Metro "E"s rolling down their streets in 1996. Let's knock on China's door and await the future Flxible Metro "G" order to arrive at NYCTA.
I saw the RTS-08 in Chicago. I didn't even know if it was an RTS until I got home and posted on BusTalk. While it is an ugly bus, it is very practical. I do not see why the MTA has the lift in the back of the RTSs and why they ordered the Orions that way. At least they got it right with the Artics. If the RTS-08 looked a little better, it would be the perfect RTS.
Well, there isn't enough room at front for the lift on the buses, and I guess on the Orions the drivers of the RTSs are used to having the lift in the back. The original RTS-08 looked good enough, though.
Yeah. I just wish they hadn't put on that tacky-looking front end; they could have got around that. UGH.
New Flyer articulated # 5406 has left 126th Street Depot and been returned to Kingsbridge. This leaves 126 with #'s 5407 and 5506 as the only two articulateds in service. On a related note, some operators assigned to the M35 have begun to receive training on the articulated. It appears there is a good possibility that articulateds will be assigned to the M35. This would actually make sense since the M35 carries a lot of passengers and handles many wheelchairs.
My grandma saw that bus running the M15 on 1 Ave and 14 St in December 2000. I was shock to hear that from my grandma.
And I don't think 5406 is going back to the bronx anytime soon.
Dominick Bermudez.
The arrtic on the M15 are they running it strictly on the City Hall runs or is running on the trips to South Ferry as well;because I have yet to see it running down Water Street
Yesterday on my lunch break, i saw Artics #5506 running to South Ferry. I went over to South Ferry & the bus is park & took the picture of Artics #5506. By the way Artics #5406 went back to Kingsbridge Depot.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
My grandma saw it running to 125 St and 1 Ave. And It was being used on the M15 Limited. Also any more D60's comming to 126 St depot?
Dominick Bermudez.
i think they are suppose to get 1095-1109 from KB besidesthe 55/5600's from New flyer
Take them away from Quill and put them on the M35, even though I can't figure out why do that.
As long as they don't congest 79th Street, all the better. The artics on 79th and 86th was NOT a good move and I can't wait to see those buses leave. The only time you can get on an Artic on 79th that has an average speed of more than 0.00000000000000001 MPH is on Xmas and at 3 AM (I've seen the former, but I have a feeling the "city that never sleeps" takes a doze at about that time).
I happened to ride on this bus on my way to school today on the Q46-weird thing was that the interior # said 8632. I felt I was at Quill-LMAO! QV BO-what did you do?! ;) ROFLMAO!
Q46#8632Gary-oops I mean #8392Gary
Sounds like someone mixed up the decals a bit :). It's too bad no QV routes go near the "Brodaway" stop on the G; it would be perfect.
Sounds like somebody swapped the 9 and the 3 around, putting the 9 upside down to create an entirely new number, thus 8632. I hate to say it, but it was probably a bored operator on a long layover. I've seen operators cover up that inside number with metrocards, brochures and other materials. Doing these things only makes it hard for people to put in complaints since obviously they have the wrong number or no number at all. However, remember, it also backfires if somebody wants to write MTA a compliment about the operator.
BIG AL
Sounds like someone knows too much about this LOL!
Which type of exhaust fume smell better? Gas or diesel. Personally I like diesel more since it has more of a mechanical smell to it. To me
Detroid Diesel engines seem to produce a much better smell then cummins. I hate gasoline and CNG engines since they smell like crap.
OK not to rain on the parade, but sniffing Diesel fumes is not the most healthiest. Not to the extent you can tell between a DDC and a Cummins Smell.
Regards.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
WE have TOTALLY run out of things to talk about on this board, so now we are talking bout which fumes smell best?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Go smell some more, David B...
That's the exact reason why people like Q5Merrick and myself haven't been posting as much as we used to on this board.
BIG AL
Does anyone know what depot(s) will the 70 MCI buses be assigned to & how many MCI will be assigned to each depot(s).
Out of the new 1,400 MCI D4000 Cruisers, 20 of the Decamp units have arrived. Also All 7500 Series Are In, 7600-7620 & 7740-7780 are also in. As for In Service Buses are 7503-7530 and 7580. I was down to the Acceptance Lot this morning and was startled to find out that Oradell was there picking up the first of thier units along to see the Decamp Units. Below is a pic of one of the Decamp Units (#8416) and NJT Unit (#7617), all taken at the Acceptance Lot.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The drivers at Newton Av seem to be very happy with the new D4000 buses. BTW, they're pretty much dominating service on the 317 and the 409 - where the bulk of the old Eagles saw service.
I still see an occasional MC-9A running on the 419, but with that line and the 413, you can get a Flxible (Metro B or Metro D), a Nova, an MC-9A, or a D4000.
Washington Twp still has the MC-9A and MC-9Bs running on it's Philadelphia services (400-403, 406, 408, 410, 412), including some sent from Howell and other North Jersey garages.
I like that photo of that MCI D4000 8416 that Decamp have's.
Looks nicer than the NJ Transit D4000's.
I would like to know did the D4500's and the D4000/96's came in Yet?
Dominick Bermudez.
No, the D4500s won't arrive until late 2002/early 2003. The D4000/96s will show late 2001/early 2002.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Oh. The order is like this.
D4000 Late 2000/Early 2001.
D4000/96 Late 2001/Early 2002.
D4500 Late 2002/Early 2003.
Am I correct on this one?
Dominick Bermudez.
MCI D4000#7617
MCI D4000#8416
I believe you are incorrect on the following: "D4000 Late 2000/Early 2001."
There are so many D4000's in the order that they will be spread over the next few years. Thus, some of them won't arrive until later in 2001 and during 2002 and 2003.
hmmmm, this means the numbering scheme is off again.
Originally, the 102-inch D4000s were thoguht to be 7501 and 7503-8363. With the DeCamp 8416 and the apparent exercising of the option for the last 156 coaches to make the purchase the full 1400, there's obviously a re-decision there.
Maybe NJT is numbering all theirs together, regardless of model from 7501 up, then starting the private carriers at 8401...
Today. 1:40PM.
I saw a beeline Flxible #874 on Route 45 on Main St in New Rochelle.
And the rear end had LED lights near by the engene clover. It look diffent than the other Flxible's that Beeline haves.
Dominick Bermudez.
their is also a orion with the LED LIGHTS.I think it is # 447 or 441
New Flyers look good with these, as do Gilligs and Orions; but Flxibles, ugh.
-F.
Then I doubt you'll like the Baltimore Flxibles... Most of the 1994-1995 Flxs have the LED lights; I don't know whether or not they were factory installed or if Maryland MTA retrofitted them.
One of the NJT Flxible Metro B coaches fitted with the LED tail lights - 3062.
Washington DC's 1993 Flx Metro's had them for years. At least one of them did when I was living down there in 1996. I don't remember the bus number, but it was always on the C2/C4 in Maryland (University Blvd Line).
B61 Leonard
I don't know the year of WMATA's 93XX/94XX series Metro B, but nearly all of them have had the LED's since 1996. Many of them are still in WMATA's old paint scheme.
Wayne
It's good to know they are still in the old WMATA colors; I always liked those better than newer designs. BTW, the numbers are not usually matched to the year, a la Cleveland RTA; usually, they are one-offs.
Example: the 1994 Flx Metros are under 98xx, while the 1996 Metro Es are 40xx. Last year I rode a WMATA 1999 Orion which was 3900, and climbed inside a 2000 Orion which is no. 2164. Also, I almost bought a 1977 WMATA Flxible New Look a few years ago for personal use which was no. 8282. I also have an 8x10 of a WMATA 77 Flx no. 110(!) .
Our museum has a 1974 AM General from the first WMATA order which is no. 7535.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
The Flx's that were in the 100's were Suburban configuration. WMATA used to put those things on routes that had many stops and many people, instead of using them on more express-type service. I once rode one on the Q2 from Montgomery College to Silver Spring. With only a front door, it made it a big challenge to get people on and off especially when it started to get really crowded. Having the big seats was a plus, though. : )
I miss the 8200-8661 Flx's. I really miss the 8000-81xx that disappeared way too early. They were all gone by 1990 or so.
The overall numbering system is all over the place and doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it keeps you on your toes because just when you think you know where the next series starts, they go somewhere else with it. For example, i thought the new Orions would start at 4501 to follow the 4201-44xx Orions, but instead they are in the 2000's
I thought I had caught a glimpse of a WMATA Flxible suburban years ago - long before I moved to the area. If I remember correctly they were identical to the TNJ 53096-8-1 Flxibles (74XX-77XX) from New Jersey. Did the WMATA Flxible suburbans have the 8-cylinder engines? A suburban bus on the Q2 must've been interesting at the least considering the crowds riding between Wheaton and Silver Spring. I remember many times being packed into a RTS or Flxible (Transit) new look.
Wayne
Same here; I saw a 96xx Orion in DC and assumed it to be an actual 1996 bus but later found it was a 1992 or so. Same with the 98xx Flx Metros (1994 models); oh, if only there still WAS a new Flxible in 1998!
-F.
For years, I wanted nothing more than to know how WMATA numbered their buses. The numbers are very deceptive as many of them are so painfully close to the year-numbering, but beware; WMATA USES NO YEAR-NUMBERING WHATSOEVER!
I will make the claim of having posted the first complete Metrobus roster ever seen at BusTalk back in November. It was very thorough and explained my logic in cracking the numbering pattern. Here is an abbreviated version of the roster with all the numbers but less explanation:
2000-2099
2000 Orion VI
2100-2229
2000 Orion V
3701~3760
1999 Orion II
3901-3950 (we have reason to believe these may be 3900-3949)
1999 Orion V (30 ft)
4001-4104
1995 Flxible Metro E
4201-4412 (might start at 4200, I'm checking on that)
1998 Orion V
5101-5133
1983 MAN SG 310 Artic
5150-5184 (approximate)
1988 Flxible Metro B (30 ft)
5201-5245
1995 Ikarus 436 Artic
8701-8850 (This is NOT year numbering. 8700 was the next series available)
1986 Flxible Metro A
8851~8951
1987-1988 Flxible Metro A, Flxible Metro B
9001-9115
1979 GMC RTS T8W 603
9201~9254
1989 Flxible Metro B
9260~9288
1989 Flxible Metro B (96")
9301-9413
1990 Flxible Metro B
9414~9458
1990 Flxible Metro B (96")
9480~9496
1990 Flxible Metro B (35 ft)
9601-9660
1992 Orion V
9701-9785
1993 Flxible Metro
9801-9835
1994 Flxible Metro
Here's some numbering history:
Recently retired GM New Looks (about 135 of them) were in these series:
1100 1300 1400 1500 2500 3600 3800 6400 6500 6600
The dreaded AM Generals, the first buses purchased by WMATA, were:
7000-7499 (40 ft)
7500-7619 (35 ft)
Flxible New Looks, a handful of which survived until 2000, were:
8000-8144, 8201-8327, 8401-8661 (40 ft)
5551-5570 (30 ft)
1983 Neoplan AN-440-A's were:
9501-9575
I suspect that WMATA has very recently switched to a zero-rooted numbering system. So 100 buses purchased are numbered 2000-2099 rather than 2001-2100. This makes MUCH more sense. I hope that they will number future orders like this.
I encourage any dialogue about Metrobuses. It's my favorite fleet in the US!
Neil
¡Qué viva WMATA!
Oops! I already spotted an error in my own roster!
5150-5184 (approximate)
1988 Flxible Metro B (30 ft)
30 foot Metros are about 5150 to 5179 or so (some of these are at Ride On right now) and then 5180-5199 are 30 foot Gillig Phantoms.
The Metro-Bs at Ride-On are really Metrobuses painted in Ride-On colors, operating out of Montgomery with Metrobus drivers. Ride-On fares are charged but I don't know who gets the money. I know they run on the 36, among other routes. This is the reason 9221, 9222, and 9224 will be seen on Ride-On routes. Those three buses also have Ride-On signs on the front, sides, and back covering the Metrobus logo but don't have all the Ride-On signs (they can't display 36 CONNELY SCHOOL but the 30 foot Bs can). I do not know if this means some 40 foot Bs will be painted all blue and white.
[The Metro-Bs at Ride-On are really Metrobuses painted in Ride-On colors, operating out of Montgomery with Metrobus drivers. Ride-On fares are charged but I don't know who gets the money.]
If this arrangement works the same way as most contracts do (ie. SEPTA's contract with Krapf's), I believe the farebox revenue goes to contractee - in this case, Ride-On/Montgomery County. WMATA probably gets paid a portion of that from Montgomery County, but I don't know that much about contracting to be able to say for sure.
BTW, thanks to Neil's posting, I think I have found my latest challenge for my roster site which has moved to a new URL - http://ctrabs74.50megs.com ...
The all-time - or at least since public ownership - WMATA roster!
Sorry to be a PIA, but re: the GM Fishbowls... were those purchased by WMATA or were they inherited from DC Transit, et al?
Sorry to be a PIA, but re: the GM Fishbowls... were those purchased by WMATA or were they inherited from DC Transit, et al?
Do not worry. I love when someone gives me reason to talk about WMATA!
WMATA -never- purchased a single GM New Look. Their first purchase was the AM Generals, and their next big purchase was hundreds and hundreds of Flxible New Looks.
The New Looks were inherited from at least four different companies, among them DC Transit, AB&W, and perhaps WMA Transit Company. As WMATA became well-established annd began to pick up momentum in the mid 1980's, they began massive replacements of the inherited equipment. Metrobus maintenance in the late 70's-early 80's left something to be desired, so after having subjected the New Looks to that, many of them were ready to be retired. Around this time (1985 or so), WMATA chose about 250 good New Looks to rebuild.
However, until August 2000, 1990 was the last time WMATA retired a large number of GM New Looks. Almost 200 Flxibles came in in 1990, and after that point, only the 250 New Looks rehabbed in the mid 80's stayed. Bus orders between 1990 and 1998 retired primarily the last of the problematic AM Generals and most of the Flxible New Looks, although scattered GM New Looks were also retired here and there during this era.
After the 262-unit Orion order of 1998-1999 (4200-4300-4400-3900's) was complete, about 160 GM New Looks remained. These began to be pulled gradually as the 2000 Orion order (2000-2100-2200's) started to roll in, and by August, the last six GM's were retired.
Interesting to note that WMATA did not renumber any New Looks. Until their last day, they all retained their original numbers from their original owners. This made to some intense number tracking. As recently as March 2000, about 125 New Looks were spread across numbering series 1100, 1300, 1400, 1500, 2500, 3600, 3800, 6400, 6500, and 6600. In March, the oldest New Look was a 1962 TDH 5302 and the newest one was a 1971 T6H 5306A. Only a few of them were 102" wide. I know that the 6400-6500-6600 buses were DC Transits; I'm not sure about the history of the others.
They did have some minor problems, but generally, the GM's were in overall good condition until the end. The drivers liked them for their speed.
Imagine if WMATA -had- purchased GM New Looks instead of AM Generals in the 70's. There would still be hundreds of them active today!
The GM New Look in Washington DC: September 1959 to August 2000.
Thanks,
Neil
>>>Imagine if WMATA -had- purchased GM New Looks instead of AM Generals in the 70's. There would still be hundreds of them active today!<<<
Doubtfully. TAs do something I call "Evenflow Retirement." Look at NYCTA. They are retiring a range of buses built from 1982 to 1987, a five year difference. Yet, they are being retired at an almost even pace, in fact, the 1984-1985 buses have taken retirement priority over the last 1982 buses.
See, if WMATA ordered about 500 GM New Looks and they had I don't know, another 500 from the other companies, they would have had 1000 New Looks (down guys) by 1990. About 350 would have been retired and the rest would have been retired from about 1996 to this year. I'd say the newest batch would go faster than the older ones. There'd be about 100 left as of now, if that much. With Evenflow Retirements, you never really know, but they could have decimated a fleet of 1000 New Looks in 10 years. Foresight of oredering 100 buses a year would have saw to that.
With Evenflow Retirements, you never really know, but they could have decimated a fleet of 1000 New Looks in 10 years. Foresight of oredering 100 buses a year would have saw to that.
That is an interesting theory, RTS_2150, but I think it's safe to say that New York is the only TA that really practices it. It is not common among other TA's.
The reason that this happens, when it does, is that in the early-mid 80's, it was trendy for large TA's to order buses in gigantic quantities all at once. As these buses began to age rapidly (and the TA's realized how foolish it was to order that many units at once) some of them had had very different careers than their brothers, so their conditions varied widely. For that reason, it is neither easy nor is it always practical to retire that entire fleet with an entirely new megaorder. By the time several new orders come in over a few years, other bus orders immediately after the original megaorder begin to start falling apart too, so by that time, they retire whatever needs to be retired and hold on to even older buses if they can.
A good example of this is Los Angeles. In 1981, RTD took delivery of a whopping 949 RTS-04's. When it came time to start thinking about replacing these, some of the 1984 Neoplan AN-440-A's were more in need of replacement of some of the RTS's, so MTA (as it was by 1993) just retired whatever needed to be retired; age of the bus really was not the issue.
I guess I am kind of proving your point with the LA tale, but the reality is that this pattern of bus replacement is the exception, not the rule.
Neil
Nope, Houston does it too. In 1998, the 2nd mass bus retirement began. Pulled from service were 1981-83 RTS buses, 60 1985 Flxible Metros, a few 1985 Eagles, and some 1986 Neoplan AN430s. Despite th fact that the RTS buses were older, they retired some newer equipment right along with it, probably becuase it was inadequate, but still.
In Pittsburgh they always keep an orphan fleet of buses!In 1982-83 they bought 365 Neoplan buses like Septa did.These rusted out alot and started being replaced in 1994.Even with all our new buses that have came since then there's atleast two old AN440'S left.This happens here alot and is neat if your a bus fan.On another note the WMATA Neoplans rusted out also like many of the ones in Pennsylvania did!
But sometimes TA's usually will retire equipment out of turn because either the TA recently put some money into the equipment or the older equipment turned out to be superior to the newer (?) equipment. SEPTA retired their Flxibles two years before their Fishbowls. From 1985, I have never seen a Flx again and the last of The Fishbowls dissappeared in 1987. Plus SEPTA contracted the complete rebuilding of The Fishbowls (but I've forgot what was the name of the company). So The PTC/Red Arrow/SEPTA Fishbowls have not only seen the transition of ownership, they have lasted into the glory years (the 1980's, when SEPTA was at their best), and met The Neoplan AN 435/440.
Having just returned from a trip to DC - I can say that the variety of buses there - and their numbering is quite amazing. Grummans in the 9700's...Orions in the 3000's Short Orions - long Orions - one bus that looked like a taxi (On Connecticut Avenue) - and those "Hybrid" looking buses - with the ad on the top saying something like "Here is your newest looking bus" (or something like that) - reminded me of the batwings - well - kinda.
Mr. flx7595 (goes to Washington)
Those aren't Grummans sadly, just bread and water Flxibles.
That's what I thought; however, both look good to me!
-F.
What is the big thing about Grummans? Flxible Metros look pretty cool, as Flxibles do. I prefer the excel windows over the full one plate glass windows. I think those make Flxible buses extremely cool. Only the RTS looks good with those kinds of windows. Anyway, what makes a Grumman so much more exciting?
In answering this question, I must first have you understand this: The Grumman Flxible 870 series buses were possibly the WORST buses to EVER roll out onto the streets. Hundreds upon hundreds of infractions were what was found on these things. Why does everyone love these buses so much. People have pity for the weak, and the 870 was pathetic all around. How Flxible didn't go bankrupt at that time is beyond me. Being as pathetic as the design was however, people still liked it because many people root for the underdog. Everyone knew the RTS was lightyears ahead of the 870 design. Even the horrible (by RTS standards) RTS-01 and 03 series. But people loved every creak, groan, rotting frame, rattle, blam, lean, and bounce of the 870. All of these weaknesses came together to create the "best" BUSFAN bus since the New Look, but fot oppopsite reasons. The only reason I liked this garbage heap on wheels is because of that DD6v71N engine. Everything else just fell into place behind it. Had this bus had one of those sanitation truck engines alot of New Looks had, well, I'd hate this bus more than a Gillig, or an Orion V. But everything worked out for this bus and it went on to spawn a successful line up to compete with it's superior cousin the RTS and establish a cult following only something so bad, it's good can establish.
THAT is what is so good about a Grumman; it's so bad, it's good.
i actually liked the grumman 870. Living in ny, Green,Triboro,NYC,Jamaica and LI Bus had them. New York got rid of them first, and never went for the Flixible Metro. I happen to like them and miss riding on them. Command never had them and i wonder why?
Of course you like the 870! Everyone does. It's like one of those unwritten rules of being a busfan. But WHY do you like it? It's like fatty foods, you don't want to like it, but it just tastes so damn good!
I LOVE to like the Grumman 870. If anything, the RTS looks like a rolling fatty acid, as opposed to the slender Grumman. Kind of a cross between an 870 and Linda Tripp, if you will. But by golly, some of us Flx fans still respect them somehow!
I guess that's because these days it's about the closest thing you can get to a Grumman as far as sleek design.
Two things I always disliked about the 870/Metro design:
- the asymmetric body. Not just the windshield, either (for years, Flxible centered the front nameplate under the windshield post instead of the center of the actual body). The fact that the body didn't line up side-to-side either annoyed me both aesthetically and from a common-sense standpoint. Having three different sizes of main windows on the single-door suburbans is ridiculous.
- the designed downward rake. Because the front step risers are only 8 inches compared to the rear door's 10 inch steps, the body was designed on a downslope to insure that the ground-to-first-step remained at 14 inches. The front edge of the roof is 5 inches lower than the rear, even though the roof itself it completely flat. It always gave the bus an appearance of shoddy maintenance, as if the front shocks and air springs were constantly sagging (and forget it if the kneeling system didn't fully recover, or the springs really were shot).
The RTS is uniform, symmetric, level, and modern looking, even though it's now a 33-year-old design.
[- the designed downward rake. Because the front step risers are only 8 inches compared to the rear door's 10
inch steps, the body was designed on a downslope to insure that the ground-to-first-step remained at 14
inches. The front edge of the roof is 5 inches lower than the rear, even though the roof itself it completely flat. It
always gave the bus an appearance of shoddy maintenance, as if the front shocks and air springs were
constantly sagging (and forget it if the kneeling system didn't fully recover, or the springs really were shot).]
It appears and I always thought the Grumman 870/Flxible Metro simply sat (different springs) higher in the back - sort of how the Orion V back end is slightly lower than the front. I say this because if you look at one from the side you can clearly see a higher ground clearance in the back. This is also the case with New Flyer D40 (at least the one at MARTA anyway). The 870/Metro lower front end is part of why I like them.
Wayne
Amen...it's a great look!
-F.
33? Wait a minute...how can that be if the RTS came out in '77? Don't you mean 24?
As far as the downward rake goes, I love it. It adds to the look of the Grummans by enhancing their sleek design. Personally, I think the front looks funny on 870s/Metros when it's upright.
-F.
The RTS was actually designed in 1967. The first one rolled off the production line in 1977 and the world has been a better place ever since.
Really...1967? I've gotta SEE this! Where can I find pics of the prototypes? Anyone out there that can help me? I'd love to see this!
-F.
The precursor to the RTS design was the RTS; this is what everyone is speaking of a 1967 RTS.
There are a few pictures of it floating around the internet. It looks like some kind of a bad cross between a RTS-01, a spaceship, and a classic 1950's sedan. It is semi low-floor (only one step up) has three axles, a sloped back, New Look-type headlights right on the bumper, rear doors moved up one window position from the current, and some other "almost but not quite" RTS features.
The RTX scares the hell out of me. I'm glad GM modified it to the current RTS design.
Wasn't the prototype from 1974? (There is a picture of it in early 1975 on TA property)
Wasn't the prototype from 1974? (There is a picture of it in early 1975 on TA property)
Here's what happened: The RTX of 1967 was designed by GM purely for the reason of designing a new bus. Appearantly, it was not too well-liked then as New Look production was in its heydey in the mid-late 60's and continued in the US for another 9 years after the release of the RTX. In the mid 1970's, USDOT got into the business of putting together unified/low-bid specs by which all transit systems using federal money were to comply. Major players in the bus industry (Flxible, GM, and AM General at the time) were expected to design a 'Transbus' to be used as the standard for USDOT. GM blew the dust off of the RTX, made a few modifications, and submitted that design to USDOT as their concept for the Transbus. That was the bus tested in New York in the 70's, during 1975 and 1976 I believe. The Transbus project evolved into the ADB. I'm a little foggy on the details of what exactly happened to the Transbus and how Flxible suddenly inserted the 870 into the scene without a decade of prior design and research like GM's ADB.
I see that the RTS has a great amount of history in the development of the ADB; now I need to know one thing. How did the Grumman/Flxible 870 get its name?
I was told that prototypes were made as early as 1970; my assumption is that the first was made in August, or 8/70. At the same rate, this design was not first mass-produced until April, 1978. Even then, the 870 (nee Flxible Metro) STILL looked way ahead of its time, making it hard to believe that the basic shape evolved way back in 1970.
Does anyone have photos or info on how the design came to be? I'd love to know more. Please help me to learn!
-F.
Actually I think New Flyer(nee Flyer)was ahead of its time with bus designs.You look at a Flyer701(sort looks like a Canadian version of a Flexible fishbowl)from the late 60's/early70's and then the Flyer801(which aka was an AMGeneral in the US)which was basically the basis for what some people call know a shoebox on wheels.And that was about 1976.2yrs before the Grummman870/Flexible Metro design was put into production
Flyer and AM General back in the 1970's. The Flyer D800 was used as a part of a jont venture with AM General. The AM General call the bus the 40102 Model. Same with the ETB's. I know KC Metro and SEPTA still have the AM General ETB's still in service.
Dominick Bermudez.
Also the MUNI in San Fransisco has the ETBs in service. What does the KC stand for? Kansas City?
KC Means King County Metro. That's the transit Complany for Seattle,Washington. That's where the Earthcrake hit hard. BIG TIME!!
Dominick Bermudez.
There was a literal earthquake, or did something really bad happen?
Kansas City doesn't have any ETB's.
I wasnot talking about Kansas City. I was Talking about King County Metro in Seattle.
Dominick Bermudez.
Actually, the AM General model numbers were the reverse (width before length) 9635, 9640, 10235, 10240. PAT in Pittsburgh had 9635s and 10240s in their fleet deep into the 80s.
>Flyer701(sort looks like a Canadian version of a Flexible fishbowl)from the late 60's/early70's
Was this the new body that was used for old Brill trackless trolleys in Toronto and other places? Are there any preserved anywhere?
I think it was used to replace either the Brills or Peter Witt cars & their are photos of them at www.transit.toronto.on.ca/
I love the New Look-style Flyers with the slanted windows! They look SO much better than the E800 and the AM Generals. Those basically look like an early 70s New Look restyled as a prototype for the Gillig Phantom. Yuck.
-F.
Sea Shore in ME has a large collection of buses, so give their web site a try.
Mr t__:^)
I remember from reading the old (read: good) Bus World that many transit agencies didn't like the transbus and there were numerous problems with it, and rather then to continue putting money into it, the manufacturers took what they learned from the transbus and created the advanced design buses we know and love today. The article was about the changing of the guard in transit bus manufacturers over the last 20 years. I'm pretty sure the Flxible 870 did have a transbus predecessor as well.
It is definitely a monster of unique variety. I still say it looks like a cross between a slopeback RTS and the Beatles' Magical Mystery Tour bus.
And the name RTX is very fitting for a late Sixties design; it sounds like a musclecar. Plymouth GTX, American Motors AMX, GMC RTX. Now all we need to do is shove a Hemi and some Glass Packs on that baby and take it down Main Street to the burger stand.
-F.
I can just picture a souped-up RTS called "RTX." Jacked up in the rear, lakes pipes coming out the rear wheelwells, and tandem racing slicks... :) Now there's an interesting customizing job to do on the Hot Wheels slopeback!
On a similar note, Hot Wheels just(?) came out with a hot-rodded '50s school bus :).
First I'd take a Flxible Metro-B (Though I'm a big Metro-D fan). Trash the steel wheels and replace them with chrome-dipped Alcoa Wheels. Replace the existing tires with Michelin XLJ Series Tires.
Then take the paint, strip and prime the body and replace the paint with a fresh coat of "bling bling" white with navy blue skirt and a SEPTA-like Navy Blue stripe in the rear fading off into a "TransiTALK" blue at the front door. The Front door would be replaced with a Chicago-style slide glide door (dosen't look loose air pressure as quickly). Take the rear bulkhead and replace it with a METRO-D/E style bulkhead (90 degree angle). The rear lights would be replaced with long lasting Circle LED lighting! Now for the interior.
All existing seats would be ripped out and so would the existing lighting system. The new seat would be the American Seating Model 6697 Recliners with Model 6466 center facers in the front. The light would be replaced with the new Transmatic L20 lights. The Ceiling, Sidewall and Rear wall would be covered in a loop pile wool charcoal grey carpeting while the seats carried a mutli blue pattern. The RCA Rubber Transit-Flor would be replaced with the new Alco Anti-Slip black floor. The Drivers seat would be replaced with a new Recaro Luxury Air Ride Drivers seats. The windows would be replaced with Excel Tip-Style Windows (NJT Style). For Add ons, I'd install ceiling mount flat TVs that fold flat into the ceiling when not in use (made by RCI) joined up with a 10-speaker AM/FM/Cassette/CD System. The Destination sign would be replaced with the new Balios Orange-Type LED Signage.
Now for powertrain, the existing powertrain would be replaced with a 11.1L Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC Engine with a ZF Ecomat HP592 5-Speed V-Drive Transmission, the exhaust pipe would look to that off a New Flyer Style Exhaust Pipe, JUST CHROME DIPPED!!!!! The existing HVAC system would be replaced with a Thermo King Roof Mounted HVAC Unit, preferably mounted towards the rear on the ceiling.
The rear suspension would be jacked up 20% more to give the bus a bigger angle.
AMAZINGLY ALL OF THIS IS DOABLE, and could be done for cheaper than the cost of a new Nova RTS-06, yes I've done the calling around and got price figures and such and came up with a not to expensive price tag, if you have the money!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
"Oh by the way, I just gave you the layout for future planned TransiTALK Flxible"
As much as I love RTS, I'd rather have that Flxible you described. Of course it's cheaper to do that with an RTS becuase you can pick up an operating 1980 GMC RTS for around 3,000 dollars.
But you can pick up a Flxible Metro for less than that!!!
Trevor
You have to be joking!? Just imagine how much an 870 would be. With their history I'd have to say dirt cheap! I might pick me up one when I turn 21. But only if it has the original 6v71N engine. You should get that type of engine and have it turbo-charged. The 870 wasn't my favorite bus over the RTS for one year for nothing you know.
Na, my Flxible is supposed to be the 2001 Flxible METRO, if it were still going! SO Detroit Diesel Series 60 it is, even though I'm a die hard Cummins fan!
Trevor
You should come on down to Houston then. All of our D40LFs have Cummins engines. Pretty sweet. Especially the 4000-4156 buses.
I though Cummins engines were the bad engines to get on your buses.
That's what I heard as well; however, our TA is going to all Cummins because they weren't impressed with the first-year DD Series 50s on their 94 Gilligs. Guess we'll see what happens eventually.
-F.
That's what I heard as well; however, our TA is going to all Cummins because they weren't impressed with the first-year DD Series 50s on their 94 Gilligs. Guess we'll see what happens eventually.
-F.
Yeah, you can; in fact, there is a rare 1982 870/Metro hybrid for sale in upstate NY...it has a 6v92-T and everything. The guy was asking $4500 but may be willing to negotiate that as he really needs to sell it soon.
-F.
We had some hybrids here in Houston. I loved them shoddy design and all. I believe they had 6v71N engines. They were the only 100 buses kept out of the 326 870 order. Altogether, rebuilt and unrebuilt years, they made it to the age of 18. Retired in 1997.
Oh, and don't forget the gold-plated 50" rims on low-profile tires and clear taillights....something for da homies.
-F.
That would be sweet. I'd like to spell out the perfect description of this new design, but since this is a family message board, well...just refer to Samuel L. Jackson's wallet. Or for that matter, BUILD it with that wallet. He's bound to have tons of cash in there by now.
I would also suggest Euro style headlights, as seen on the MCI Renaissance. Those would give it a whole new look. And so would wraparound LEDs or top rear flank-mounted wraparounds, Volvo station wagon-style. And as for the rear roof-wount A/C, make it rounded with a rear grille retro New Look-style. That would give it a phatter caboose than Jennifer Lopez.
Kudos to your design ideas, Trevor.
-F.
I always thought an RTS would look great with MCI E-Series style headlamps.
BTW, my cousin said the RTX looks like a stretch Lexus. I don't see it, but okay.
Yeah, E-Series lamps would work on a Metro as well. Then you could throw in real burlwood and leather seats and call it a Flxus LS 870.
-F.
LOL! That reminds me, an 870 Hybrid that was sold off from our TA was at the Kappa last year. I don't know the number though because it was all black. They were giving out records I think.
Hmm...that sounds neat. We used to have an 870 painted all black here for a local rock station; it had a giant guitar painted on the side with the body over the front wheel well, along with chrome-dipped Alcoas.
God as my witness, the first time I saw it, I thought The Who was in town. It looked more like their tour bus than a regular Valley Metro.
-F.
That will be a nice bus. Looks better then the Suburban Nova RTS's that MTA runs. I call that bus. The Flxible Metro G Suburban. Just one Question. Is that bus is going to be a 1 Door model?
Dominick Bermudez.
Nope, Two door!!!
Trevor
How about a four-door Flx Metro? Shoot, move the AC to the roof and make it a hatchback. :)
-F.
I have an idea. Why don't we take two Flxible Metros (preferably 102"), take the rear end off one, the front end and front axle off the other, and turn it into one articulated Flxible Metro. We'll install a 60-Series Detroit coupled to an Allison World B-500 in a T-drive configuration. How does that sound (since despite its name, Flxible never built an articulated)?
YA HEARD ME!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I can't wait to see it...wonder if it will have all the neat stuff you planned for the T2001?
-F.
YA HEARD HIM RIGHT! WAIT TILL YOU SEE THIS PUPPY!!
That would be different; I'd like to see that. Maybe I could do a model of one...
-F.
All of that sounds cool, except for The ZF transmission. I would use an Allison instead. ZF's are known for low shift points and jerky shifts.
ZF transmissions sound cool, though, although they are jerky, like on the 3000 series SEPTA Neoplans. However, it's my favorite sounding engine.
Allison is good; only thing is the early 5-speeds gave trouble, especially when mated to the high-torque Series 50. Hence our TA's decision to Cummins power their new Gilligs when they order them. Wonder what happens from here.
-F.
Sounds like me.....I'm already at work on an RTS flip-up body over a rail dragster chassis...fatties at the rears, skinnies at the steers, and only one seat behing the mid-mounted blown Hemi engine! You should see the low rake and the chrome side pipes sticking out of the side skirts on this baby...it's gonna be sweet.
By the way, I have a few of those new (rare) 50s-style "woody" hot Wheels school buses if anyone is interested. They look like Crown coaches with 1940 Ford fenders on the sides. Very neat buses.
-F.
I don't know if GM got the design from "south of the border" but back in the mid-1970's, I found a postcard from Mexico City, and in it was a bus -- a bus that looked strangely like the GM RTS, only slightly smaller (about 32' length). I had found this postcard at least three years before the first GM RTS's were made.
There were a few of these RTS "lookalikes" floating around Tijuana as late as 1988-1989 when I was driving tour buses and went into Tijuana a couple times a week. They were built by a Mexican manufacturer (MASA, whatever that stands for), and they looked very much like what one would expect a pre-1977 RTS to look like.....the basic shape and look was there, but older. (These buses did have flourescent lighting, which was rare in Mexican built transits then....)
WOW....that's WILD! I've got to see photos of these things. Send 'em out for all to see!
-F.
I wish I had the postcard -- I did take some slides of those buses in Tijuana, but I also sold off the slide collection a few years ago. I think you would be as stunned as I was when I first saw the postcard!
Yes, 33 - the original GMC RTX was developed in 1968! Not many people realize the RTS is really a SIXTIES design, even though it looks good in the year 2001. Below is the 1968 RTX.
Someone should write a book on the history of the RTS.
That is PHAT! I have GOT to build a model of this thing...I think I can pull it off, guys. Let me know what the stripe color was on this thing and I'll get to work. WOW!!!
-F.
Another comment on the RTX: WOW. And I thought The BEATLES were ahead of their time in 1968!
On a lighter note: the three-axle design reminds me of the Magical Mystery Tour bus in the movie, which (ironically enough) was released about the same time as the RTX was built. Maybe The Beatles
inspired the RTS after all....LOL.
-F.
Command was just formed a few months before and still had Pioneer's equipment still.Ironically the Ave B & E.Bdwy order 8 Grumman 870's (96 inches wide compared to the 102 the rest of the city had purchased )but they went belly up before they could arrive and were sent to Staten Island as 553-561(I think) as Express buses.However I am not sure if they wer sent to NJtransit like the rest of them afterwards.
That's correct. Ave B - E Bway's Grumman 870 did go to SI as express buses.
Wayne
In addition, the Avenue B & E Broadway buses were 8 cylinders, as opposed to the 6 cylinders preferred by the TA/OA.
All the NYCDOT Grummans 870(along with MSBA's)were 8 cylinders
Yes you're right. Actually all of the NYC-DOT Grumman 870's had the 8V-71N engines.
Wayne
Also some Flxible New Looks too, I heard (forgot whether these came from Av B & E Bway or not).
I thought that the Ave B & E Bdwy had the Flexette's.The New Look Flexibles were assigned to GBL,CTC & JBL.
There is only one "e" in "Flxible".
Just like there is NO "C" in Amtrak. I dunno why so many people think there is.....
The "C" stands for crack. That's what they are smoking.
-F.
Amen. There is only one "e". And there is no such thing as a Flixible. Come on folks, get it right. Next thing you know, people will talk about Noo Flyers, Gillings, NUBIs, RDSes, Orians, and Grummonds, and we'll all just have to go postle and fick some shot up.
-F.
Funny. I've already seen someone who typed about "Gillings". And I know someone who insists on prounouncing Grumman as "Groo-min".
Hey, I grew up on Long Island, right next to Grumman Aircraft in Bethpage area -- it is a SHORT "U" in there, just as in crumb (that just fell off a cookie onto my keyboard).
There's a guy who lists stuff regularly nowadays as eBay -- he's selling some Road Champs Metro's. He types in all caps, but screws up when it comes to the manufacturer of the real buses. He does it...FlXABLE. For some reason (maybe intentional) he uses the small "L" in there....and considering what NYC's Grumman 870's went through, "Fixable" is a good description.
All good points. I had a roommate once who pronounced it that way. Also, later on I found out why he wasn't paying the rent...he had a drug problem. Also, he tried to kill me with his bare hands one night. Therefore, I threw him out.
For once, I'm not joking. God, I wish I was.
-F.
who is this guy and how many does he have to sell. when i go to ebay, there is nothing there
Hey, folks; good news. I have a Flx New Look model for sale on eBay; check it out. I'm easy to spot there; my eBay ID is flxible.
-F.
tried bidding on it-got outbid. does the wheels move? planning to make any avaible outside ebay? putting more on ebay soon???
Yes, yes, and yes. I may throw another one on there depending on how its twin brother does; I can sell outside eBay with no problems, options, paint schemes, and all. BTW, I'm still at work on doing a rolling version of this model, folks.
Buzz me for more info an all of the above; thanks guys!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Star City Customs
Command didn't know what they were missing. Believe me.
-F.
If they were so horrific how did NJTransit(via the NYCTA/MaBSTOA)and JBLmake them last for 20yrs(also QS had them for 15 yrs until the TMC RTS-06's arrived)
They were rebuilt perhaps, and not to their ORIGINAL standards. Basically to Metro A and B standards, both models are superior to the 870. That's how they lasted so long. BTW, NYC got rid of the Grummans in 1984. NJT didn't do anything to them until 1987. They were retired in 1999 and 2000. Plus, they were out of service in NYC for about a year in their 1980-84 stint. So in actuality, they only lasted about 16 years.
Yeah, well....it's good to see they lasted a while anyway.
-F.
YEAH, there ya go....and we also have an 870 here that's 22 years old and still running strong. CAN I get an AMEN from the congregation?
-Brother Flxible
Amen O:>)
To quote NJT: There you go.
-F.
OK, I'm assuming you didn't grow up with Grummans, much like yours truly. Since I assumed you were weaned on the RTS, I guess like I can say for myself, it's all in what you know. I like both. RTS is OK, and Flx is good. Peace.
-F.
The NYCTA Grumman 870 had the SAME DD 6V-71N engine that was in every NYCTA GM and Flxible (except 9155-9164) new look as well as the 1981 and 1983 RTS 04 (except 1288-1317, 2281-2300). Sure it sounded a bit different, but it was the same engine. Those exceptions had DD 8V-71N and DD 6V-92TA engines respectively.
Wayne
That's correct; we have a 1976 Flx New Look and a 1979 Grumman Flx in our museum with the same 6v71 but both sound completely (and wonderfully) different. Funny how a couple years' design innovation produces a whole new sound from the same engine!
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
WOW! There are still 870s alive and well in DC? That's GREAT! Wait a minute...are you sure those aren't Flx Metros? I recall (and built a model of) bus 9708 being a Flxible Metro. Somebody help me here; I want to know the real deal on the 9700s at WMATA.
-F.
No there are no Grumman 870's in DC. I've only lived here since 1996, but I don't think WMATA has ever had any Grumman 870's. I wish they did have some, but of course there plenty of Flxible Metro (to my delight).
Wayne
That is correct, there are no Grummans in DC. Baltimore used to have some, but DC never did. the 9700's are 1993 Flx's. The taxi looking buses must have been those stupid Orion II's. I've always thought the top of the Orion VI could be used as a new way to advertise and create the return of the batwings.
The Orion IIs are a poor excuse for a transit bus; they are UGLY! They look like something I ate and dropped. Why are we even calling these glorified Fisher Price mutants "buses"? It makes me sick to my stomach that a fine TA like WMATA would put their proud name on this rolling chunk of feces.
And to mine. All those beautiful Flxes make me want to LIVE there!
-F.
Absolutely not.
The 9700's are 1993 Flxible Metro D's.
WMATA never had any 870's. What's more interesting is that they did not even start to buy Flxible ADB's until 1986. For having so many of them, one would think that they would have started buying them earlier.
By the way, I found a trace of logic to the way Metrobuses are numbered. Think back to the mid 1970's when Metrobus was ready to make its first big purchase of its own, the AM Generals. Where to number? The fleets of the transit systems WMATA had inherited were numbered all over the place, a large bulk of them being year-numbered DC Transit GM New Looks in the 6000's. After adding the 1, 2, and 3 to the three-digit New Look numbers of buses from other carriers, only the higher end of the number spectrum was open. So WMATA chose the 7000's. The AM Generals were 7000-7499 and 7500-7619. With those in service, WMATA went on to make its next big purchase, this time Flxible New Looks (which had previously been almost nonexistent in Washington). A new big purchase, a completely new series. Thus, the Flxibles found themselves numbered on up from 8000 to about 8600. Come the late 70's and the RTS's hit the streets. Again, an entirely new type of bus to WMATA, so why keep the same first digit for the numbers? The RTS's were 9001-9115. After the RTS's, WMATA began to see some pitfalls of its numbering antics. Participating in the articulated bus demo of the late 70's, WMATA wanted these buses to have a numeric distinction, too. There were no series higher than 9000, so WMATA just jumped below the DC Transit numbers and threw the artics into the 5000's. Next came the Neoplans. Again, a new type of bus in styling, but not in use or purpose. However, the expiration of availability of the 'new bus, new thousand' series affected the Neoplans as well. No problem. WMATA just cut the pattern in half, and the Neoplans wore 9500 series numbers. Enter the Flxible Metro. WMATA fell in love with this bus in 1986, but there was no whole thousand series to devote to it. With hundreds of New Looks still running across dozens of numbering series and virtually every big block of continuous number occupied, WMATA had no choice but to... yes... cut into one of the previously established thousand series. Now what? There was still considerable space in the Flxible 8000's, and as these Metros were, well, Flxibles, WMATA started where it had left off eight years previously, and the first Flxible Metro was numbered 8701. This worked out great for a while, until the Metros began to climb into the mid 8900's, dangerously close to the RTS numbers. As there were large gaps in the 9000's as there had been in the 8000's, WMATA just skipped over the 9000-9100 series and kept going. The next Metros were in the 9200's. Another small bump in the road here was the 9500's. WMATA did the same thing and simply straddled the old buses with new ones. The 9400's and the 9600's are both newer batches than the 9500's. The 9600's are the 1992 Orion V's, and then the two of the last three Metro procurements are 9700 and 9800. Why no 9900 series? WMATA's final order for Metros was in 1995, an order for 104 coaches. If I had been in charge, I would have numbered these buses 9850-9953, but at this time, WMATA wanted to isolate annual bus orders to a seperate series. So the seach began for an entirely new thousand series for new buses. The little-used 4000 series was the chosen one. New Flxibles and the first batch of new Orions were all numbered here. Why WMATA chose to go down the the 2000's for more new Orions I do not know. So here's to understanding Metrobus numbering!
Neil
Wow...and I thought all the draft beer and hot chicks were puzzling enough for me. Happy Mardi Gras, everyone.
30 foot Metros are about 5150 to 5179 or so (some of these are at Ride On right now) and then 5180-5199 are 30 foot Gillig Phantoms.
I messed up again! What's wrong with me? I must be in Metrobus withdrawl; it's been almost a year since I've been to DC!
So here goes, and this time, I think this IS the right info!
The 30 foot Flxible Metros are about 5150-5184. Then the 30 foot Gillig Phantoms of 1988 are 5080-5099.
That's better.
Neil
Did WMATA have Neoplan's? If WMATA did. Do anybody have a photo of that bus?
Dominick Bermudez.
The main reason I believe WMATA went to 2000 rather than 2001 was because the Orion V number system starts in the 2100's and. Same with the 3900 30ft. Orion V. If they went above 3999, it would hit the Flx Metro 4000's.
the WMATA did actually have Neoplans, although they were gone long before I ever saw them. There is a picture of one in the book "The Story of Metro". That's how I knew they ever had Neoplans.
They had them. I never rode them but I remember seeing them on the 90s at the Duke Ellington Bridge (I used to ride the L2 alot).
I could scan a photo of one at the Lincoln Memorial but the photo may be copyrighted.
How many Neoplans did WMATA have?
(There is a picture of one in the book"The story of Metro")
Where can I find that book "The story of Metro"?
Witch model is it? Must be a AN440?
Dominick Bermudez.
It is a Neoplan AN440, I don't know how many they had (look at the fleet roster that someone posted) and I found "The story of Metro" at my local library.
Basman. I talking about where can I find "The story of Metro". Like in a book store. Not where you found it at.
Dominick Bermudez.
Are WMATA are going to replace the MAN's yet? Those MAN's that WMATA runs look like in a bad shape or something. Beeline's have ther MAN's Looking good. Some of the Beeline MAN's look like New or got a new paint on them.
Dominick Bermudez
MAN Artc#661
Here's a list of Articulated Buses That WMATA Have in service today.
#5101-#5133 1983 MAN SG320
#5201-#5245 1995 NABI 416
Will WMATA Retired #5101-#5133 any time soon?
Where can I catch #5201-5245 on what Route is it on?
Dominick Bermudez.
MAN Artc#5101
NABI416 #5201
WMATA's 70 (Georgia Ave) routes usually has lots of NABI Artics operating. In fact if you want to ride one of the NABI Artics I'd say you should start out at Silver Spring Metro. Not only is this one of the best places for bus spotting, but most of the WMATA routes that serve Silver Spring Metro Station use NABI Artics. The routes assigned to Montgomery Division also have MAN Artics, but you'll only see them during rush hours. I think the 70 routes have the most NABI's but they operate in the city and don't really get a chance to go very fast. The Q2 route (from Silver Spring to Shady Grove) is a real treat and although most of the buses on the Q2 are standard 40 footers you can find both NABI and MAN's there. The J2 (Silver Spring to Montgomery Mall) is also a good route to ride the NABI's. If you're downtown there are a lot of NABI's on the X routes also.
Happy riding!
Wayne
The MANs run on the J2 middays, I've caught them.
X2 has a mix of buses.
Best places to look are the 70s, J2/3 and X2.
Look at it this way both Westchester Cty and Chicago(including the ones from Seattle)still run their MAN's so why should DC get rid of their's
The Ikarus artics are mainstays on the 70 between DC and Silver Spring and one of the "Y" routes (I think it's Y8, but I don't recall for sure). I've spotted MANs on service out of Minnesota Av Metro station, but I can't recall which one off the top of my head.
The one that you saw from Minnesota Ave. was the X2 that runs from Minnesota Ave. to Laffayette Square, right by the White House. I've seen the Ikarus play cameo appearances on the C2 and C4 as well. I think I even saw it on the C8 on its way back from College Park one day and the C11 would use them between the Clinton Park and Ride and SW DC when it used to run all the way into town. Not sure if WMATA will fix the one that got split in half by a CSX train a few months ago.
Any Other Routes that will go near by the White House?
When is the best time to get on a NABI or a MAN on X2?
Dominick Bermudez.
MAN Artic#5105
NABI436 #5211
The other buses that go near the White House are the 30 series buses that run from Friendship Heights to SE DC. These buses are good if you want to go to Georgetown or the museums if you don't want to take the subway and run very frequently, but do not use artics. When Pennsylvania Ave. was open in front of the White House, there were many buses that went by there, now that its closed, the buses are rerouted all over the place. Other nearby routes are the 80 (Kennedy Center/Fort Totten), L2 (McPherson Square/Chevy Chase Circle) 52/54 (Bureau of Engraving/L'Enfant Plaza/Takoma). You will most likely find artics on the X2 during the rush hours most certainly and probably here and there during off peak and weekends.
I know the reason why artics on X2?
Because of Alot of people want's to see the white house and it's the best way to get to the white house.
Am I correct on this one?
Dominick Bermudez.
Actually, as many buses that go by all the tourist attractions, you'd think WMATA would try to promote them more, such as the 13A that does a loop from the Pentagon, to the Mall area, then by the Vietnam Memorial, Arlington Cemetary, then back to the Pentagon, but really, there are so many people from the NE side of town that are transit dependent and because its so much cheaper than having to take the rail, they use the bus. The X2 runs frequently, but due to volume, the artics are needed. It would be nice if more people would use it to see the White House, etc., but actually its just the locals piling on.
I going to DC this Spring. SO I might take the X2 to the White House and I doing this doing AM RUSH to see the white house. SO like that I get a chance to see the white house to alvold the Mess of people there.
Dominick Bermudez.
Whenever I go see the White House, I take the Metrorail to teh Smithsonian, walk aroudn until I arrive there. I think a closer sation is McPherson Square.
It is closer.
You can also use Farragut North if you don't want to transfer from Red to Blue/Orange or Farragut West if you don't want to ride as far on Blue/Orange.
Where would you walk from there?
Heavy passenger volume.
The three hardest routes to drive are the B2, X2, and the 30s. Out of all of those, only the 30s don't have artics but they can't unless they switch divisions because Western is too small.
How many Neoplans did WMATA have? What year did the Neoplans Retired?
(There is a picture of one in the book"The story of Metro")
Where can I find that book "The story of Metro"?
Witch model is it? Must be a AN440?
Dominick Bermudez.
How many Neoplans did WMATA have? What year did the Neoplans Retired?
(There is a picture of one in the book"The story of Metro")
Where can I find that book "The story of Metro"?
Witch model is it? Must be a AN440?
All very good questions.
WMATA had 75 1983 Neoplan AN-440-A's, 9501-9575. Most of them spent their entire careers in the Anacostia area. The bulk of them were sidelined by 1994 or so for major corrosion problems. They spent a few more years on WMATA property, and they were disposed of by 1999.
I have never actually seen a picture of one either.
The Neoplan was sort of a transitional bus for WMATA. It was the first purchase of 40 foot buses after the then-problematic 9000-series RTS's, and the last purchase before WMATA bought its first Flxible Metro in 1986 (and went on to become one of the biggest and most prominent Flxible Metro customers ever.)
If the Neoplans had not had problems at the beginning, it would have been interesting to see if WMATA would have gone on to buy Neoplans in the 80's and 90's rather than Flxibles.
I happen to really like Neoplan buses. It is too bad that so many cities have problems with them. True that they are sometimes tough to 'break in,' but usually after a year or so of service, they become problem-free workhorses. SEPTA and LACMTA can attest to that.
Neil
I happen to really like Neoplan buses too. However, I'm glad that WMATA went with the Flxibles, making it different from SEPTA buses. The WMATA and SEPTA are my "home" transit systems (I was born in DC and my father still lives in Maryland, and I grew up and still live in the SEPTA service area). No offense to some people, but when I was growing up, i always thought of SEPTA buses as the classier buses, rather than those Metrobuses, although they were good as well.
Can WMATA go back to Neoplan right now? And get new buses from there besides getting buses from Orion.
Dominick Bermudez
NeoplanAN440 #9501
WMATA had already placed its next bus order with New Flyer. I don't recall the details off the top of my head, but I believe they will be low floors.
What year is the New flyer is comming to WMATA?
Also can someone tell me where can I find this book.
"The story of Metro". I need to know so like that I could buy one.
It's a book about the buses that ran at WMATA. There's a photo of that Neoplan AN440 that WMATA used to run in that book.
Dominick Bermudez.
New Flyer D40LF#8200
Neoplan AN440#9500
It's actually not about the buses that the WMATA ran. It's more about the development of the metrorail. Anyway, I don't think that book is in print anymore
It isn't. I think the Montgomery County, MD Library system has a few copies, you could also try Amazon.com...
Neil:
What year are the Gilligs? They look like they're relatively new based on the Luminator MegaMax sign, but looks can decieve (see MTA/Long Island Bus' Gilligs - no, better yet, don't).
What year are the Gilligs? They look like they're relatively new based on the Luminator MegaMax sign, but looks can decieve (see MTA/Long Island Bus' Gilligs - no, better yet, don't).
WMATA's Gilligs are actually eligible for retirement! They are 1988 models. The Luminator sign is misleading, you're right. I think that those signs may have been the first Megamaxes WMATA purchased. This kind of sign came out in 1992, and maybe WMATA tested them on a small batch of buses before specing big orders with them, thus the Phantoms' Luminators are retrofits.
True that the WMATA Phantoms look new. They are in very good condition, and the fact that they are 12 years old and have not been repainted is amazing! This might lead someone to believe that the Phantoms are some of the last new buses to be delivered in the old paint scheme, but they are not.
I know that right now, the Phantoms are confined to the Anacostia area. Will they ever or have they ever seen service in other areas?
Thanks,
Neil
You're right on the money about 3900; it exists. I rode it here in Roanoke; this was ny first time on an Orion, and I liked it!
-Fred
See? I try to tell people, Orions are not bad, and they attack me with vicious teeth and slashing their deadly nails. Personally, I think Orions are nice buses.
I agree. When I rode 3900, the driver told me that it reminded her of our old Flxible New Looks because it "felt like a nice, heavy bus"; also, from the inside, the slanted sides and woodgrain applique remind me of the Flxible Metro. It also helps that it is a nice, quiet bus which does not rattle.
-F.
In New York ,the Orion V was like the return of the Flexible,with that slanted drivers side windshield and the seating arrangement.
Yeah...it only it was styled more like the Metro. So far the only thing close in the looks department is the NABI, especially in the Baltimore MTA scheme.
-F.
You also forgot the first batch of MAN artics:
5001-5043
1979 MAN/AM General SG220 (298)
IIRC, that batch was retired when the Ikarus buses were delivered.
As for the 52xx series, it looks as though they were built to the same specs as the first Baltimore artics (9501-9510) operating out of Northwest Division on the 91 City Hall - Sinai Hospital bus, though the rear engine cover seems to differ slightly.
RE: 1997-98 Orion V buses...
There is a 4200, as evidenced by this photo from Trevor Logan's web site taken at Anacostia Metro Station:
http://www.geocities.com/tt_0022001b/TLogan/WMATA_Orion_4200.jpg
FYI, the original posting of the WMATA roster is located at the following URL:
http://www.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/bustalk.cgi?read=21181
BTW, I think I have figured out the original owners of the WMATA fishbowls.
1xxx - Alexandria, Barcroft, & Washington (ABW), most likely the 14xx, which were TDH5304, and 15xx, which were T6H5306A. However, it looks like some Washington, Virginia, and Maryland (WVM) fishbowls were also numbered in the 1xxx series, as their last batch of fishbowls, originally purchased by the Northern Virginia Transportation Commission, were numbered 1001-1030 (T6H5306A) and 1101-1130 and 1151-1180 (T8H5307A). 1167-1180, however, were listed as delivered to WMATA in 1973.
2xxx - Generally WVM. WVM had a fleet numbering system which was very simple, at least between in 1956 and 1969 at 501-672. 641-655, BTW, were Flxible New Looks (111CD-D5-1), while the rest were GM Old Looks and Fishbowls.
3xxx - Washington, Marlboro, and Annapolis (WMA) Transit Company. The first batch of WMA fishbowls were numbered 301-323, 401-405, 501-527, then 601-635, while the final GMs were 801-840, which were delivered in 1968, five years before WMATA bought them out.
6xxx - DC Transit. Simple year numbering, however there were a few SDM5302 fishbowls on the roster #25-54, plus 5 SDM5301 coaches #20-24.
Neil is correct that it wasn't until 1974 when WMATA recieved it's first original batch of buses - the AM Generals (7000-7499 - 40 ft; and 7500-7619 - 35 ft).
This is what happens when you're writing things down at 1 in the morning. I had said that the 1000 and 1100 series fishbowls were part of the Washington, VA, and MD Coach fleet. I stand corrected. They were part of AB&W all along. However, the numbers of the 1000 and 1100 series are correct, and they were purchased by NVTC.
BTW, I have what I hope is an accurate WMATA roster from 1974 to the present. I didn't include the inherited buses from the four indy operators (ABW, WMA, WVM, and DC Transit).
http://ctrabs74.50megs.com/rosters/wmata.html
I also, in case anyone is interested, have the WVM Coach Company roster posted from 1954 to 1973.
http://ctrabs74.50megs.com/rosters/wvmc.html
I will have WMA and ABW posted soon.
Do you have pics there?
No WMATA pics yet, but probably, I'll try to get a couple of rolls next time I go down to DC. In fact, I have a lot of undeveloped film I haven't had a chance to develop, but those are mostly SEPTA and NJT pics.
Yuck.
Are the 1993 Flxible's the D's? I thought they were 1994 Flxs. I never really saw them with the LEDs before. Maybe they did since a lot of them were in the new scheme. But, basically all of the B's have the LEDs.
According to flxible.org, B's were produced from 1987 to 1991, while D's were 1993-94. E's were late 94 to 1996. I don't think LEDs were in the picture yet on Bs, so those must be a retrofit; I've also seen Grumman 870s on flxible.org with these as well, and there is no WAY LEDs were on buses between 1978 and 1982.
That is the knowledge I have been blessed with so far; if anyone has addendum(s), let me know.
-F.
yeah. the WMATA retrofitted the B's with the LED's quite recently, within the past few years or so. Before they were jsut the average Flxible lights.
Well, by 1994-95, those were pretty much commonplace, I suppose; Cleveland RTA has them on their 1995 Metro "E"s.
When I saw those on the back of RTA 9506 a few summers ago, I had assumed that Flxible ran out of money and was just tacking any old thing they could afford on the back of their later buses just to get them out the door.
Honestly, they just look so cheap and tacky on there; the flush-mounted lights look much better on these coaches.
Ugh. I can't stand those on a Flx. It ruins the sleek look and makes it look like something badly drawn in a South Park cartoon. Also, I think the taillight setup on the others such as 797 looks weird; I mean, come on...the backup lights on top? That looks SO tacky and bass ackwards. Here's what I've always been accustomed to on the back of these buses:
|R| |R| |R| |R|
|C| Grumman 870 |C| |C| Flxible Metro |C|
|R| |R| |A| |A|
I also like the following setup on the WMATA Metro "D"s and "E"s:
|R| |R|
|A| |A|
|R| |R|
(C) (C)
Anything else on these buses just looks plain tacky.
-F.
Oooh noooo! Darn - I cannot stand those LED's on a Flxible Metro. I think the square wrap-around lights are a perfect match for the bus' overall shape. I've learned to live with them as WMATA's Metro D & E are quickly getting the LED's as part of their overhauls. It won't make me dislike the Flxible Metro but they sure look much better with their squared brake & turn indicator.
Wayne
The LED lights look great on the Orions and New Flyers (and oh yeah Gilligs)but on NJ Transit's Flexible's it doesn't look right(Maybe they are trying to catch the New Look idea with those rear lights).Same with the RTS's that have LED lights it doesn't look right.
I don't know about the New Look idea; I tried to think that myself but it just doesn't wash. It seems to me that the redesign costed more money to both companies than it was worth, especially Flxible.
I agree. I can't believe WMATA would screw up their buses like that! The original lights are MUCH more suitable to their styling.
Well, looking at the bright side, perhaps those with older Metros and Grumman 870s can always use the leftover square light parts for their buses when WMATA puts these up for surplus bids.
I heard about your Transit webpage & I looked up your webpage but your webpage isn't on Yahoo anymore.
I would like to know if your webpage address change or it moved out of yahoo.
Hello.
Here's where you can find Transitalk.
www.transitalk.com/
Ok.
Dominick Bermudez.
Have you ever heard of e-mail???
Not to suggest you are Follo or anything but extra messages slow down my already slow computer even more. You have also gotten me when I am in a bad mood (again, you seem to have great luck).
BTW: I am now entering TransiTalk, it works fine. Dave never changed the link on the bus page to the new URL.
Tuesday TWU Local 100 President, Roger Toussaint, had a "rally" of a little over 1,000 for the "private" group. It wasn't a meeting because some politations were invited, e.g. Peter Vallone.
I also believe that SubTalker, The Former Transit Proffesional, was their, in his official capacity.
As a non-union observer (no I didn't go to the meeting) I don't understand the "protect the pensions" issue. Roger previously stirred up some local union folks with his interest in getting control of the pensions. On a weekly basis money is put in pension accounts controlled by third parties ... so in the worst case if Local 100 found itself de-certified, the pension money would still be secure.
Earlier in the week there was also a meeting between the nycDOT office and City Council, but this was related to the "franchizes" vs. contracts with the unions.
Mr t__:^)
It's so sad to see 8397 go down in history. I talking about 1991 TMC RTS hybird. Can MTA just put that bus in the historic bus fleet being non as "The very first Hybird bus". And put 1385 in the historic fleet.Too. And be knon as "The first weelchair bus". Now let's see what MTA going to do.
And put 1385 in the historic fleet.Too. And be knon as "The first weelchair bus".
Was it??
The Grumman Flxible 870s that were delivered in 1980, some had Wheelchair Lifts! GMC RTS-04 #1201 was the first RTS in our fleet which had the lifts and she IS in the Historic Fleet, Here Is A Shot of Her At Jackie Gleason...Current As Of Two Days Ago!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
It was the 400/500 series of Grumman 870's that had the lifts for NYCTA and 800/900's for MABSTOA.FP had them in the middle 500's plus they wer the first buses at NYCTA to have the lift in the front not New Flyers .Also I remember when 1201 was out of ENY back in the early to mid 80's
Looking at the picture of 1201, I am a little dismayed to see that Transit installed the newest style decals on her. That is not the way that bus looked when it was in actual passenger service. They should only install the original decals on her only, as that is the reason why it is called a MUSEUM BUS.
BIG AL
The reason why It's like that because. Before 1201 Retired it got new Windows. The outher window witch came on 1201 broke in peases by a gun bullet. So MTA put those windows on 1201. But 1201 was a Few of the 1981 RTS that got the new MTA logo on the bus. MTA just kept 1201 the way it is.
Dominick Bermudez.
GM RTS#1201
Are you serious? How do you know all this stuff?
Sorry Dominick, but your wrong. Take it from somebody who works for transit. I don't have a problem with the windows, but I've seen 1201 at the transit festivals like the rodeos for several years now, and it did NOT have those latest stickers and logos on it, especially the ones on the rear bumper. That only came out a few months ago.
BIG AL
I would also like to point out that ALL the the other museum buses are in their original layouts from the first day they hit the streets. Other than the Grumman Flxible 870, name one museum bus that's painted white? The new MTA logo wasn't even a thought back in 1981.
BIG AL
I couldn't agree with you more Al. It's really a shame. I can understand cleaning and painting - but the new logos? They should have at least left that alone. Now it looks like any other "clean" RTS bus. They should have left the original "M" on the back between the lights - the original number plaque with the larger "unrounded" numbers - no bumper stickers, the racks on the sides, the old logos - and the words "New York City Transit Authority".
At least they didn't replace the black piece near the back window (which is white now on most buses) that is next to the air conditioning unit. But then again, #4448 has not had its replaced - and I think one bus out of your depot also has the original black shield - Might be 4559 - I don't know - but it was on the Q17 one night last week.
BTW - Isn't #5227 Blitz paiinted white? That's not exactly its original color (or its original number, for that matter. But it was the last Blitz off the street so I guess that's why its there)
flx7595
When I saw 1201 a few years ago at the rodeo, it still had the "M" logos on it along with "New York City Transit Authority" logos on it. I don't know what Dominick is talking about. I can't understand why they would give it the current logos. It does look just like any other current RTS except for the pork chop panels.
I think you are right about 5227 being white, but that is a Blitz bus that they gave museum status to and they were only white. There are no straight original buses in the museum with any updated materials on them. They really need to straighten 1201 out. And yes, 4559 is the only 4500 we have at Jamaica with the black pork chop panels. Also, one of our 4300's still have them, I believe 4351 along with 4214, 4215 & 4217 and a couple of the 4100's and a couple of the 3000 series express buses.
BIG AL
The only JAM buses with the black pork chop window are 4214, 4215, 4217, 4352 and 4559.
Mark
[ALL the the other museum buses are in their original layouts from the first day they hit the streets.]
That is not entirely true. Mack #6259 originally had cloth seats, not the plastic seats it has today. And GM Old Look #9098 did not originally have the red stripe it has today; only 9000 and 9120 were delivered new with the red stripe. Also, I think the express seating in Fishbowl #8466 was not original, but was later substituted for the standard plastic seat layout.
Another bus that is not original with it's seating is 2151 (the GM New Look THD-5301.The first buses from 1960-1962 did not have the red & gray scheme like this one has.It had the scheme like 100 & 1059 all green hard plastic seats with that indent between them.An example of this seat still can be seen at the Williamsburg Bridge Plaza Terminal.
Also,there are these green plastic seats outside a auto glass place on Cooper ave off Cypress Hills St in Glendale.
If you want to take it a step further, the engine compartment for one of the Flxibles - 4727 I think - does not look like its the original one. It's missing the blue stripe - a common thing among the original Flxibles. As the engine compartment doors got replaced - the new doors did not have the blue stripe. In Flushing Depot, the 71xx's come to mind - with 7189, 7198 and 7199 having their engine doors replaced.
It also meant that the bus number - which used to be at the the base of the door below the ad and between the lights - was gone. (You could also sometimes tell which buses 'swapped' engine doors - I remember one bus that had engine door '7577' on the back - and 7577 was not ever at FLUshing. It was on the back of a 71xx I think. I just don't remember which one.
flx7595
True 7577 was at FP originally ,FLU stared with 7600 if I am not mistaken
FLUshing had 7590-7604 for a period of time. Then I think they went to (or came from) Jamaica. I remember 7603 wound up in the property of the USPS as a mail bus.
No kidding. I'm serious.
FLUshing also had 7645 briefly.
But the 7577 engine plate was on a 71xx - I am almost positive about that.
flx7595
FLU started with 7590...JAM started with 7600.
Mark
Didn't 7600-7604 wind up at FLUshing for a period of time after spending time at Jamaica?
flx7595
I believe 7600-7604 did wind up at FLU. I also recall 7608-7619 ending up at QV for a while.
Mark
They also need to get to the Grumman Flxible 870 (#236). Everything about this bus is orginal except it's wheels are painted white and all of the NYCTA/MABSTOA Grumman 870 had the dark blue wheels. The TA started painting the wheels white later before they were withdrawn from service.
Wayne
has the interior of 1201 been restored to its original colors and who here remembers the original 1981 colors.
The 1201 Interior Looks like any other RTS in the fleet right now, which I was disgusted by.
This is the interior I remember when these baby's were delievered:
I found a RTS with this interior still in tack, so I hopped the fence and shot this interior, because for all I know, it's the last one left standing!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
If I am not mistaken,that has to be 2486.She ran out of ENY at the very end right before the 4900/5000's came in.
I went on 2486 on Q56 one time. This was before it retired. Can someone tell me when 2486 Retired? I was thinking it retired in
July 1999. Am I right?
Dominick Bermudez.
I went on 2486 on Q56 one time.This was before it retired. Can someone tell me when 2486 Retired? I was thinking it retired in
July 1999. Am I right?
Dominick Bermudez.
I think you are cause I had her on the 56 also and she disappeared right around the time to 4900's started arriving (which would be Summer of 99)
Oh I remeber now. I went on 2486 on Q56 in June 1999.
Just before it Retired for good.
Dominick Bermudez.
GM RTS #2486
Possibly 2326 also.It was at ENY the same time 2486 was with the same interior.
That's pretty close to what they looked like when delivered except thw window pillars were white and dark tinted, non-opening windows.
Wayne
BIG AL. I did a error about 1201 haveing the New MTA logo on the bus.
I might be talking about one of the Last 1981 RTS's that was in QV.
Can anybody tell me what was the last 1981 GM RTS running out of QV?
About 1201. Just want to know did the MTA used 1201 as a tranning bus? If it did that could be the reason it got the new MTA logo's on that bus. Am I right.
Dominick Bermudez.
GM RTS #1201
The last 1981 RTS's running out of Q.V. were about 6 or 7 2200 series RTS buses which were all transferred to Jamaica depot at the same time when Q.V. started getting in their 9300's. Then the 2200's left Jamaica and went to the storage yard when Jamaica received in the 9500's. 2 or 3 of them came back to Jamaica for a very brief time when intermodal service first started. (free transfers from bus to train & vice versa) If I remember correctly 2271, which was one of the RTS's that came back for intermodal, was finally the last 1981 RTS to leave Jamaica to go to the scrap yard, so it could have been the last 1981 RTS in service in NYC transit.
1201 was never a training bus. I remember seeing it running down Jamaica ave on the Q24 or Q56 from ENY depot about 1 or 2 weeks before it was retired. It had all the old style decals on it and then I saw it in the rodeo the following year. It was repainted but still had the old style decals on it. That's why I'm miffed now as to why the new decals were installed.
BIG AL
Re:1201 with NYCT decals: Big Al - I was thinking the same thing. It does look good as it is now.
Wayne
[GMC RTS-04 #1201 was the first RTS in our fleet which had the lifts and she IS in the Historic Fleet]
I wasn't living in the NYC area at the time, but I recollect that the 2200 series of RTS's for Mabstoa commenced delivery before delivery was commenced for the 1200 series for NYCTA. Thus, even though its number is higher, 2201, rather than 1201, may have been the first RTS in the NYC fleet. Can anyone confirm for sure?
This is the original 1990 industry ad for the TMC RTS-08 (the name WFD came much later). As you can see, the headlights and bumper were intentionally styled to be very similar to the RTS 01-06. The turn signal was moved from the inboard position to the wraparound position to replace the lower side light that lined up with the bumper rub strip. SMART in Detroit left their bumpers in white, and they looked even MORE like a traditional RTS. Had they left thius front end in place, and used a pantograph front door that reached the top of the windows similar to the narrow front door, they probably could have retired the 06.
Wow. That's a really nice look. The front sorta looks like the Classic, and therefore keeps the GMC look. Maybe the bumper could have been toned down a little bit. It seems bigger than the regular RTS's bumper. They don't even need the pantograph doors-slide glide is so popular these days. Maybe the reason pantograph is so good with this bus is because of the extremely round design. However, I agree. They could've dropped the RTS-06 design, and this would be the most popular design! (and quite useful in big cities like NYC, where so many people use the front door.
Now THAT'S a lot better. I remember that front end and thought it looked funky on the CTA 96" 1991s, but it still looks a LOT better than what's on the WFD. Come to think of it, the wraparound lights have a streamlined look to them...kind of reminds me of the Grumman 870. Oh, if only they'd go back to this style on the WFD!
-F.
I have come to truly appreciate the frustration with NovaBUS' front-end redesign of this version of the RTS that is shared by so many fans out there over the past month, especially after seeing this. I almost forgot about this great ad.
I was very dissapointed with MTA/NYCT's reluctance to purchase this RTS version over the past few years. This should have been NYC's signature RTS.
No kidding. It looks a LOT better than the WFD (Whatta F**king Drag) version.
That bus look like the CTA RTS. But it don't say CTA. So that means that bus is a DEMO model. But it is a DEMO model because CTA got thers in 1991 but the AD was from 1990.
Dominick Bermudez.
because CTA got thers in 1991
Not true. In fact, CTA got their very first few RTS-08's as early as mid-1989. The lion's share of units rolled in during 1990. It was the narrow 4900-series Lake Street buses that came in in 1991.
The Lake St buses, BTW, are now in service as part of CTA's University of Chicago shuttle service. Oddly enough, the Lake St buses are not wheelchair equipped.
The Lake St buses, BTW, are now in service as part of CTA's University of Chicago shuttle service. Oddly enough, the Lake St buses are not wheelchair equipped.
Exactly. The Lake Street route (#16) was eliminated in 1997. Hopefully, the 97 cuts will be the last time that CTA has to slash that much service. It was brutal.
Between 1997 and 2000, the 4900's found work on some low-traffic circular shuttle lines (like route 64) on the fringes of the city. When CTA was asked to run University of Chicago bus routes, they immediately reassigned the 4900's to 103rd Street Garage (I believe, it might be 74th Street) to do the 170-series University routes.
These are probably the last buses in the US delivered without wheelchair access. They were ordered -after- ADA rules took effect, but CTA said that these buses would be too narrow to accommodate wheelchairs. I don't know how they got away with that, because there are lots of 96" buses that are accessible. It could have had something to do with the stopping conditions on Lake Street, though.
By the way, Lake Street needed narrower buses because most of the route was under the El structure, of which the legs are planted right into the middle of the street. So when buses passed each other, it was very tight. I wonder if it would have even been possible to use 102" buses on the 16.
Neil
"The Lake St buses, BTW, are now in service as part of CTA's University of Chicago shuttle
service. Oddly enough, the Lake St buses are not wheelchair equipped."
"Exactly. The Lake Street route (#16) was eliminated in 1997. Hopefully, the 97 cuts will be the last
time that CTA has to slash that much service. It was brutal."
Additional service cuts were made in the Fall of '98, primarily in late evening and overnight service --- just as brutal.
"Between 1997 and 2000, the 4900's found work on some low-traffic circular shuttle lines (like route
64) on the fringes of the city. When CTA was asked to run University of Chicago bus routes, they
immediately reassigned the 4900's to 103rd Street Garage (I believe, it might be 74th Street) to do
the 170-series University routes."
They were assigned to the 103rd Street Garage. Many of them operate on other routes from that depot as well. The U of C shuttle routes need only 7 or 8 of the 15 4900s, even at times of peak demand.
"These are probably the last buses in the US delivered without wheelchair access. They were ordered
-after- ADA rules took effect, but CTA said that these buses would be too narrow to accommodate
wheelchairs. I don't know how they got away with that, because there are lots of 96" buses that are
accessible. It could have had something to do with the stopping conditions on Lake Street, though. "
You're probably right. Loading and unloading wheelchair-bound passengers between the L pillars in the middle of Lake Street would have been extremely dangerous.
That's correct; the 96" RTS-08s are 1991 models. I've seen those online before. Great looking buses!
-Fred
" In fact, CTA got their very first few RTS-08's as early as mid-1989. The lion's share of
units rolled in during 1990. It was the narrow 4900-series Lake Street buses that came in in 1991."
Actually, the prototype (#4400) arrived in early 1990. The first 50 (or so) of the 475 standard-width production model RTS-08s (4401-4875) were delivered in late 1990; the rest in '91. They were followed by the 96"-wide buses (4900-4914) in June of '91, I believe.
-Dan Terkell
I guess someone has to be the oddball in the group but I personally like the RTS-08 in it's current form. In 1997 while vacationing in New Mexico I visited Roswell and had the opportunity to take a tour of the Nova Bus assembly plant. After viewing the assembly line I was shown a large storage yard where newly assembled buses were parked awaiting shipment. In that group were a significant number of RTS-08's which had been ordered by Cleveland and Chicago. Having never seen an RTS-08 I asked my guide if it was okay to check one out. With permission granted I sat in one and was immediately impressed. I found it to be much more comfortable and ergonomically superior to the RTS-01-06 series. The instument panel and placement of major controls was completely different from that of the 01-06 series and in my opinion much more driver friendly. As for the flatter front end, I didn't think it looked as hideous as some of our members seem to think. Then again I've always thought that the 01-06 series looks like a condom on wheels so my opinion is slightly biased.
You could have all of the driver comforts an RTS-08 has in an RTS-06. NYCTA most likely just chose not to shell out the extra money to get them. The sleek front end of the RTS is only slightly reduced in an RTS-08, the main problem is the ridiculously placed headlights. Most of the front module is actually unchanged from that of the RTS-06. I bet if NYCTA bought the RTS-08 in it's current form (god forbid), it'd ahve the same cramped drivers area of the previous RTS buses becuase NYC didn't want that option. If you want proof, climb aboard an NJT RTS bus. The 2000 models are said to have improved driver areas which include more room than the 1995 models.
Actually, the front module of an 08/WFD is completely different of the 01-06 - they share no metal whatsoever. The windshield abgle is completely different, as are the front pillars, door opening, and driver's window cuts. Inside, the dashboard was designed so that a farebox would fit into a cut to open up more vestibule space, and pivot into the doorway for evacuating the cash.
METRO magazine had a complete article on the R&D work that went into the 08 in its September/October 1989 issue. The 08 took 22 months to develop, and would have been offered wven if they had not won the Chicago bid. The other main redesign that TMC made was offering underfloor heating, similar to the fishbowl. TMC specifically desiged that to help get the RTS into Canada!
Well, well, well. I saw my first El Dorado in real life today. One window before the back door I think, 3 narrower windows after it. I saw it crossing 40th street on walnut st, but I didn't get a close look at it. I'm pretty sure it wasn't LUCY, but I'm don't think the 21 would be using 30ft buses during the day at around 2:30. I didn't get a great look at the sheme, but I think it was the regular scheme, but the bus basically looked entirely white from a distance. I knew the stripe would be too narrow on those buses.
Anyway, on to special thing number 2. I saw my first 400 series route in service. I don't remember where it was exactly going, I went by the destination sign way to fast, but I saw a NABI serving route 416 oparating in the city. I know these routes are limited weekday service routes, but where do they go, what do they do? The SEPTA website has absolutely NO information about these routes whatsoever, and that led me to believe that they actually didn't exist. But they do. Hmm...
Anyway, on to another special NABI. NABI # 5026 needs some help. It's destination sign, well, couldn't handle the pressure and fainted. The Luminator sign slipped backwards apparently in the bus, showing the 42 to Penns Landing destination sign to the sky. Hopefully, this will get fixed before it gets sent out.
Oh well, just to add this little thing, NABI # 5050 is in a wrap. I forgot what it was exactly, but I saw it twice today in a purple wrap thing. It is one of the few NABIs that actually have a wrap (it's more common with the Neoplans) and personally I think the Neos look better with the wrap. NABIs just don't have enough of the wrap up front in the upper parts. Even the narrow white parts at the side of the destination sign were left white. With the Neos, everything is covered.
Well, that's SEPTA for a day. Tune in next time for more SEPTA Adventures! (and I didn't even ride one bus today)
I don't know -all- that much about SEPTA and I'm far from the best qualified person here to answer your questions, but I think I can help you a little.
I saw my first 400 series route in service. I don't remember where it was exactly going, I went by the destination sign way to fast, but I saw a NABI serving route 416 oparating in the city. I know these routes are limited weekday service routes, but where do they go, what do they do?
I'm pretty sure that the elusive 400-series routes are school trippers, those which are their own routes as opposed to variations and extra trips of regular routes. I'm surprised that the destination signs are even programmed to display these routes. (Although by law, these trips must be open to the general public as well as students.)
The SEPTA website has absolutely NO information about these routes whatsoever, and that led me to believe that they actually didn't exist. But they do. Hmm...
They probably want it that way. These routes run very irregularly and they don't want anyone relying on them except students.
NABI # 5026 needs some help. It's destination sign, well, couldn't handle the pressure and fainted.
NABI #5026 is the only SEPTA vehicle I have ever been on. It was in great condition inside and out when I rode it last October. I hope they fix the problem with the sign.
Neil
The 400 seres are pretty new to SEPTA. and these are Rush hour buses. But I call them R-Bus routes. Like Montreal for example. STCUM call these routes that runs Rush hour only are call R-Bus Routes.
Also did any body saw any New Flyer D40LF's that SEPTA have?
Dominick Bermudez.
I remember seeing 400 series routes for as long as i remember, and they were around for a good while, especially the 410. I just saw my first one actually in service yesterday. I know they were just limited weekday service, but where do they go? Also, about the New Flyers, there is actually only one demo running right now, adn i saw this picture in a booklet about them. They are pretty different, with opening windows!
>>Did any body saw any New Flyer D40LF's that SEPTA have?<<
Well, Dominick, I 've seen it a couple of weeks ago. It was early morning, running on the 17 route. I like the overall design, but it's a low-floor, and I'm not too crazy about low-floors.
What is so wrong with lowfloors? I was talking to this guy who loves low floors a lot (just like he loves those Phantoms) and low floor buses are nice, even though the wheel thing isn't that great. Besides, it's nice when you are able to board it without going up all of those steps.
The New Flyer at SEPTA is apparently at Callowhill. Some of my contacts have reported to me that the pilot bus - #5401 - was in service on the 38, which has the highest amount of wheelchair and elderly passengers on the entire system. I have yet to see this bus myself, but from what I hear, it actually has a rear destination sign, almost unheard of at SEPTA since the failed experiment on Neoplan DK Suburban buses 3122-3131.
Previously, #5401 was operating out of Southern garage, seeing service exclusively on the 17. Once Callowhill is done with this bus, it's very likely that Red Arrow will get the demo bus for testing. Southern, Callowhill, and Red Arrow are the three garages which are tentatively set to recieve the New Flyers.
I was surprised that Red Arrow would be getting this batch (though, I can't wait to see them on the 104 between 69 St and West Chester), as the buses at Comly are much older and in need of replacement. However, SEPTA is supposed to have 100 buses this year, and 100 buses next year, so Comly will probably get their low floors next year.
[Well, well, well. I saw my first El Dorado in real life today. One window before the back door I think, 3 narrower windows after it. I saw it crossing 40th street on walnut st, but I didn't get a close look at it. I'm pretty sure it wasn't LUCY, but I'm don't think the 21 would be using 30ft buses during the day at around 2:30. I didn't get a great look at the sheme, but I think it was the regular scheme, but the bus basically looked entirely white from a distance. I knew the stripe would be too narrow on those buses.]
It was the LUCY service. SEPTA would never put anything except a NABI or a Neo 40-ft (or a New Flyer once they arrive) on the 21.
[Anyway, on to special thing number 2. I saw my first 400 series route in service. I don't remember where it was exactly going, I went by the destination sign way to fast, but I saw a NABI serving route 416 oparating in the city. I know these routes are limited weekday service routes, but where do they go, what do they do? The SEPTA website has absolutely NO information about these routes whatsoever, and that led me to believe that they actually didn't exist. But they do.]
The 400 series SEPTA routes are school trippers. Essentially, they are routes operated by SEPTA under contract (so to speak) to the School District of Philadelphia. Timetables for these lines are impossible to find, as they primarily connect the high schools in the city to various neighborhoods. For example, there is a line #416 which connects Roxborough High School with Center City - essentially, that's a tripper based on Route 9.
[Anyway, on to another special NABI. NABI # 5026 needs some help. It's destination sign, well, couldn't handle the pressure and fainted. The Luminator sign slipped backwards apparently in the bus, showing the 42 to Penns Landing destination sign to the sky. Hopefully, this will get fixed before it gets sent out.]
There are quite a few NABIs with tipped destination signs.
[Oh well, just to add this little thing, NABI # 5050 is in a wrap. I forgot what it was exactly, but I saw it twice today in a purple wrap thing. It is one of the few NABIs that actually have a wrap (it's more common with the Neoplans) and personally I think the Neos look better with the wrap. NABIs just don't have enough of the wrap up front in the upper parts. Even the narrow white parts at the side of the destination sign were left white. With the Neos, everything is covered.]
The ad on #5050 is for etradebank.com.
cool, the city uses public transit for their schools! That's probably where you get school tokens too.
School tokens are only obtained through the individual high schools.
I looked at Bus Rosters on The Web and noticed that three different prototypes the Grumman 870 were produced; they were called the TransBus, the High Value Bus, and the Metro Bus. Does anyone know about when these were built and if there are any pics of them out there? I have also seen the demonstrator in photos; it was still called the Rohr Flxible 870. I understand that Grumman took over around 1977 and that the first production Grumman 870 was made in April 1978. Does anyone know when the Rohr demonstrator was made?
Also, does that make the final 1977-78 New Looks Grummans as well?
I also understand there was a Flxible Metro "F" built aroudn 1996; it was a one-shot only prototype that never mare production but apparently incorporated potential improvements. Any pics or info of these would be greatly appreciated!
From Flxible.org, it was actually the Flxible Metro "G", the smart bus.
I understand there was a prototype Flxible built in 1996 called the Metro "G", or the "Smart" bus. Anyone know more about this one (i.e. where it got its name) or where I can find photos? Please help; I want to know more.
-F.
In the late 1970's the UMTA came up with the specs for their TranBus. I believe plan was that any transit agency that purchased buses with federal funding would be required to buy a TransBus. The TransBus was to have certain features that the UMTA required. I believe some of these features were low floor, wheelchair lift and 3 axles??? and I sure there were many more specs. I think the standard buses would've remained in production but would not be available to be purchased with federal funds. GMC, Rohr and AM General built prototypes. The short story is that TransBus never went into production, AMGeneral stopped building buses and GMC and Rohrs versions went on to become the RTS II-01 and Grumman Flxible 870 (The first ADB's). My understanding is that this is how the RTS got the roman numerals as part of it's designation. The GM Transbus would've been RTS III-... because it had 3 axles. Since this bus never materialized all RTS were RTS-II's (2 axles).
Fellow BusTalkers please add any info that I may be in error or left out.
Wayne
Does anyone know an e-mail address of NYCT Bus Roster or if someone has a e-mail address of there own NYCT Bus Roster including bus routes that come out of what depot, please post the e-mail address.
www.geocities.com/transitalk/Sites/Main.html
Make sure you type in capital S on the Sites and capital M on the Main, because for some weird reason, whenever I don't do that the page doesn't come up.
Wait for the page to load, and then scroll down through the photos of the week, you'll see a long list of hyperlinks. The second one on the right says, MTA-NYC Bus depot-by depot roster, click on that, and it will give you what buses are in the depot and what routes run out of it. If you click on the first on the right, the list bus roster, you'll see more specs on each model.
You could go to Transitalk.com and enter that way. Click on "Image Showroom and Roster Facility."
I'll make a deal with you: If you would post for all to see your E Mail address on BusTalk I'll send you one. P.S. Do not E mail me privately, because I want everybody to know your E-Mail address. Why? Let's say I ahve my reasons! LOL!
Does anyone know about the bus moves at Ulmer Park Depot this April & if this is going to happen or not.
April is a long time away. And the TA bus suits are notorious for making a decision about fleet assignments and changing it before the first plan was ever carried out!
I just heard from a friend who just read in today's Staten Island Advance but didn't get the hole scoop that the X21 & X22 will NOt begin until 2002.
If anyone has anything about this, please post it.
But why X21 and X22 is going to start in 2002?
I would like to know where can I find the Staten Island Advance?
Becaue I live in Queens and I rarely go to Staten Island. Can I find it in Queens too?
Dominick Bermudez.
Can someone tell me what depot is X21-X22 is going to run out from?
Dominick Bermudez.
If it is the South Shore it is going to be YUK.
staten island advance of this past saturday states x21 and x22 are expected to start running by the end of the year at the same time the private routes begin their service. in other words dont expect it until jan 2002.
Have you ever thought about making a list of all your questions and writing a letter to the TA at 130 Livingston Plaza Brooklyn NY??????
Does anyone know if WMATA still have any GMC New Look buses in service today.
If so, how many are still in service & when will they be retired.
What Are You Burnt....Not Cracking On You But, several times there has been post about the WMATA GMC New Look Retiremnets....Thus the new Orion Vs and VIs.
Sorry to sound so blunt!
Its That Flxible
Allow me to give you a less harsh response that you received from It's That Flxible Metro.
Unfortunately, WMATA no longer operates GM New Looks. They started to retire the first of the last ones beginning in June 2000, and as the last new Orions came in, the last six GM New Looks were retired on Monday.21.August.00 after the AM rush hour.
Many are fooled into thinking that GM New Looks had steadily been disappearing from Metrobus for a long time. But, the last time that a large number of GM New Looks were retired (before 2000) was back in the early 90's. The 1992 and 1993 orders killed off the last of the AM Generals, and orders between 1994 and 1998 took care of the hundreds of Flxible New Looks, although some GM's were retired too. So from about 1992 to 2000, the number of GM New Looks in service in Washington really did not change -that- much.
March 2000 was the last month the New Look was at full strength in Washington. There were about 105 of them in service then, and they were gradually retired as the Orions came in. I was lucky enough to ride 6625 and 2592 probably only weeks before their final farewell.
Not all of the GM's were sold off, though. I believe that there are still some on WMATA property. Hopefully these will be pressed into revenue service from time to time!
These were great buses. I was very, very saddened to see them go.
Neil
I wasn't. Even though they were good buses, it's about time that they modernized the fleet and brought in some new buses for everyone to enjoy (at lesat, the people who like that new bus feeling). However, they could keep some as this DC shuttle to wherever in the city, like a historic bus route.
No. There still may be some waiting to be taken away at the Fort Totten Service Lot.
I don't know if any of our Washington posters were aware of this, but there is a major renovation project which will probably affect the Pentagon Metro station bus loops.
http://metro.pentagon.mil/mef/diagrams021301.htm
I stumbled upon this because I will be heading to the Baltimore/Washington area this week on business (mostly Baltimore City), and was searching the WMATA web site for a Metro map.
Anyway, I will post details about any interesting bus trips when I return to Philadelphia (I don't know how often I will be able to check email/newsboards while I'm down there).
Since I take the express bus from Staten Island, I would like to know if Staten Island will receive the 70 MCI buses or Ulmer Park in Brooklyn.
If so, how many MCI will be assigned to either or both Castleton & Yukon & possible Ulmer Park.
I think all 70 of those Buses might go to Castleton depot in SI.
Are these buses also going to have the new NY State Plates?
Dominick Bermudez.
Well, as you may or may not know, most transit operaters have LED lights on their new buses, and may or may not be retrofitting their old buses with the LEDs. Now, let's start with the company that we all know and love (or at least used to, since the New Looks are gone), the WMATA.
The Flxibles-now they are starting to change their look with a new paint scheme and new LED lights. What do we think? Yuck, gross, disgusting! Small round lights are certainly not right for this bus, especially after seeing those big square lights that proceeded them.
The Orions-Well, they do seem a little odd at first, but they actually aren't that bad. The round lights actually fit into the indentation fairly well. And the new paint scheme was certainly made for the Orion V, although not really for the other buses, particularly the VIs and maybe not even the Flxibles.
Now, let's go to another fairly liked Transit System that serves the city of brotherly love, SEPTA.
The Neoplans-iffy iffy. After the decade of seeing them with those compressed rectangular square lights, they are not replaced with the round LED lights. Although the look may not really be styling, I prefer these over the old ones because the brake lights aren't as confusing as the old ones, and show up much more clearly.
The NABIs-well, these actually came with LEDs, so no compaints. These buses has there LED high and across, and they are styling in the LEDs. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Now, there are also other companies with other types of LEDs that stick out I think? Anyway, if or if not, let's include them, shall we?
Let's start with Ride-On. Still styling in the same old brake lights that were around since the beginning. The Vs certainly are styling in these, just like the Gilligs and Orion Is.
Hertz- not really transit, I know, but their Advantages certainly have the advantage on these lights. However, they still look pretty cool with the LEDs as I saw somewhere.
Well, I'm not sure which companies actually do this, but LEDs on the RTS is definitely not hot. Bad choice, companies, you need a time out to think about what you have done.
So, in conclusion, Orions and NABIs style in LEDs, while most other buses, well, um, don't. Orions, the most adaptable bus since the new look, these change into the new styles of today, which is unique for most buses. That's all for now, put in your inputs!
NJTs 1999-2000 RTSs and 2000-2003 MCIs are LED equipped almost everywhere except the headlights. They took a bid last month to retro the 1994 Flxibles to LED taillights, and I would imagine the 1996 RTSs will follow suit soon.
Who else but NJ Transit, the champion of redesigned buses (the MCI MC9 "Jersey" caps, the Eagle cap), could say that they have Flxibles, RTSs, AND MCI D-series coaches with round LED taillights?
I work for Orange County TA in southern California. We started using LED stuff about three years ago. Nothing has been retrofitted, burned out lamps get replaced in kind.
The 1995 D40LF's came with standard round incandescent taillamp arrays. The 1998 bunch came with LED's, as did our 2000 D60LF's, our 2001 D60LF's, and our 2001 NABI LF's.
Golden Gate Transit, up north in the San Francisco area, has been replacing burned out bulbs on thier RTS fleet with LED's that fit right into the old RTS lamp housing. They just replace the burned out one, so a bus might have an LED on one side and an incandescent
lamp on the other. Looks stupid if you want to ask me.....
San Francisco Muni has been retrofitting the rear lighting on their 1988-1989 New Flyer D40's with LED's as well, and all their news stuff has it.
Here in Norfolk, HRT (hampton Roads Transit) started backfitting their Flxible fleet w/LED NABI style lights in the last 3 years and before that since I wasn't here, they began modifying the exhaust systems on the same fleet with those ugly stainless steel jobs seen on many Flxibles across our great nation.
Do you mean putting the exhaust pipe at the top of the bus? Well, if it's the ones with the lids, that's actually rather ugly. I like the ones on the WMATA's Flxible E's, where it comes up and goes towards the back of the bus at a 90 degree angle.
Do you know if any of the old lights are laying around at HRT? We could use those. Also, one of their old Flxible New Looks (no. 621) is currently preserved by us and is part of our running fleet. At present, it is in need of a starter but is otherwise OK.
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
Roanoke, VA
I really don't know..I'll try to find out for you since they're backfitting the PennTran fleet as well....OTOH, I'm seeing more and more Gilligs running so that tells me some Flxibles are going bye-bye.
I know; I've seen their new Gillig low floors around town. There are also some Phanttoms there as well; what year are those?. I understand they are hanging on to the Metros as they are 91s; however, the New Looks are to be retired...after a whopping 24 continuous years of service! Another testimony to the lasting power of a Flxible.
-F.
Once upon a time there was a little bus named Ian Orion. He was different yet similiar to the other buses his age. His pals called him the Orion #I. The big bully Ronald Trevor Steel, RTS for short, used to taunt Ian so much that Ian swore he would get back at the RTS, maybe in his generation or by his children and grandchildren.
Anyway, Ian fell in love with a Ford Cutaway and were married. They had a child named Illusion Orion, also known as Orion #II. Everything went well with their family until arguements started to spew with Ian and his wife, and they separated, with his wife taking Illusion. After a while Ian fell in love with an Ikarus Bus, and they were married and had a child, Ingretion-Intell Orion (the Orion III for short). However, with an accident with another bus, Ingretion-Intell was killed. After a while, Ian's wife had an affair with another bus, and Ian left her. He was very sad, due to the death of his child. Finally, he found a Flxible, and they fell in love and were married.
Flxy, as his wife was called, was quite a headstrong and well organized bus. She wasn't easily swayed by Ian's romance at first, but she eventually became pregnant. She had a miscarriage, disappointing herself as well as Ian. However, when she became pregnant again, she gave birth to her new boys, Orion-Bus and Victor-Bus, also known as the V brothers.
Orion-Bus and Victor-Bus were separated at birth, never to be seen again for a long time. However, it was said that one of these buses possessed the true power of Orion. Ian died eventually, and Illusion and the V's had to carry on the Orion name. Illusion fell in love with a later Flxible, and although they weren't married, the Flxible got Illusion pregnant and they had their baby, the Orion VI Lowfloor. After running away, leaving Illusion to take care of her baby herself, she called on her half brother Orion-Bus to help her out. With the power of Orion, they forced the Toronto Transit Authority to take the Orion VIs. They even pushed the old New Looks and RTSs off of the WMATA fleet with Orion VIs and new Orion Vs, completing Ian's dream of getting back at the RTSs.
Victor-Bus, however, was having relations with a NABI bus with a low floor. Now, he got her pregnant, and they are expecting their baby anytime this year. It'll be interesting to see what it looks like, wouldn't it.
So, that's sorta the story of Orion, and how the Is, the IIs, the IIIs, the Vs, and the VIs came to be. Tune in next time for the story of Flxible.
Amusing...but you left out one teeny-tiny little act. There are still about Forty RTS-03s left on WMATA property! Ha! Dream on Ian!
Oh, don't worry, Ian's dream will come true. At least, on the WMATA fleet. But, don't forget that although they are on the property, most of them were permanentaly knocked out of service. Don't forget that the Orions moved in on the RTSs turf in NYC too.
And have yet to make a dent. There are still over 2500 RTS and only 857 Orions. By the time they do begin to retire enough RTS buses to make a difference, they'll be knocking out their own.
There will be more soon. Besides, Orion buses weren't really around as long as RTS buses.
It 's going to be 1207 Orions by the end of the yr : when the NYCTA receives an order of 350 Orion VII's.
It's the moment all of you BusTalkers have been waiting for;
The 1st Annual Mr. Liggins Best and Worst (and other stuff) Bus List!
I'm Mr. Liggins and we will look at the best of the best and the best of the worst and the worst of the worst buses that serve our great country! We shall start off with...
Most Overrated: GM New Look and ADB Flxible
Yes, that's right, I said it, overrated! Perhaps it's nostalgia and a shining durability record that give the New Look this tarnished title, but what about the ABD Flxibles? How can such problem plagued buses be overrated? Well, when you find out fax me the answer 'cause I'm stumped!
The GM New Looks are the ancestors of the RTS bus, an accomplishment in and of itself. But, they've also done a thing or two by themselves. They replaced the hideous and ugly Old Look style buses, they inspired a shabby Flxible knock off, they ran roughshod over the transit market for nearly 20 years, they have unmatched durability for THEIR age, and they've earned the love of ravenous and picky bus fans. So, why are they so overrated? Well just because a bus can last 25-35 years doesn't mean it's the fancy hard-to-pronounce rich people's food of buses now. It's looks leave alot to be desired, and it's maintenance record although impressive, can be challenged and picked apart. But, I will concede even those many of these buses sound like glorified school buses and delivery trucks, they do deserve most of their praise, just not all of it.
Now, for the Flxible post ADB designs. You can say it took a good 10 years to perfect this design, or even get it up too good standards. Most of the 80s Flxibles left alot to be desired for a bus. The shook, they rattled, but, they rolled. But for how long? The average retirement age of a Flxible is 15 years. RTS is about 18. Not a big difference you say? Usually when an UREBUILT Flxible is out out to pasture, it's dead, gone. All rattled out....over you. When you see a batch of Flxibles in the storage yard, you feel sorry for them. Shot down, early, too early for a bus. But they had given everything they could give. Now, most will be relegated to parts duty. Taken apart piece by piece to help one of their luckier cousins. Their looks are good for a bus. It has that atractive "Made in America" appeal. Also, I must concede the best sounding engines have come from the Flxible ADB Series. But does this warrant the cult like status this bus has achieved. Not in this bus fans opinion. The Flxible is like the Scotty Pippen of buses. It looks good in the presence of superiors to help out, or inferiors to look better than (coughWMATAcough) but when examined alone, phew. No need for words. So, Flxible, it's been fun, but you're no RTS, or one of those good sounding New Looks from TTC. You're overrated.
Now stay tuned for part 2...Most Underrated: The results will surprise you!
You know, not all New Looks sound like the 2 gear buses of TTC you know of. And don't put down the WMATA in such a way like that. It's a great company, although maybe more of it's emphasis is put on the rail rather than the bus. You shouldn't really judge a company like that if you never utilized it. And a lot of those old RTSs look like rather round people with double chins (no offense to people who may be round with double chins). Sure, they may be the most durable bus of today but, you know, that doesn't make it what every bus should be. However, I do agree with you that the New Looks and, although I think they look cool with the Excel windows, the Flxibles are sorta overrated.
The TTC does not run any more 2 gear (VS transmissions) in their fleet. The heavy rebuild program included a new VR731 transmission.
The WMATA and Ride-On really work together, which is amazing. the WMATA even gave Ride-On their Metro Bs, and Ride-On in turn operates some of their routes on the weekends. When did they start working together so much, and what other two transit companies share a bond like the WMATA and Ride-On?
Although not quite comparable, CT Transit operates a P route between Hartford and New Britain. During non-rush weekdays and Saturdays, 3 buses are needed on that route. CT Transit supplies two of the buses and Dattco supplies the third. A few extras are needed in the rush hours; all are supplied by CT Transit, except for one supplied by Dattco in the PM rush. Fares and transfers are the same regardless of whose bus you get. Of course, all buses are painted in CT Transit colors, but the Dattco buses are 35-foot RTS's.
I'm not really sure that Ride On and WMATA are best friends. Ride On was supposed to be a supplement to WMATA routes to provide service to areas that the big metrobuses couldn't go down. However, as WMATA costs started rising, Montgomery County and other jurisdictions in this area decided to look for cheaper alternatives. So, they decided what could be done to cut back costs, and little by little started to replace WMATA service with their own. Right now, Ride on operates the WMATA L8, Z2 and T2 on weekends, completely took over old metro route C8 from Montgomery Mall to the Aspen Hill area, split the old T6 into the 42/46 and took over the Y4, Q4, portions of the old C2 when it used to run all the way to Montgomery Mall and took over a really old Q8 route from back in the early 80's.
WMATA won a bid to operate certain Ride On routes during an open bid contract proposal. This is a way for WMATA to make money. They also won the contract for PRTC service in VA. I guess since WMATA won the Ride On bid, they had to paint their buses to look like Ride Ons. They buses are driven by WMATA drivers. PRTC provides their buses, but they are also driven by WMATA drivers. You will find some PRTC buses parked at the Four Mile Run garage in Crystal City.
Just wait unit the regional mobility panel is done assessing WMATA service. Plans for now are to reduce WMATA service by 25% leaving them with regional (county/county, or any routes that cross jurisdictions) and then letting the counties either run the inter county services themselves or award a contract to WMATA to run service which they already run anyways. Kind of conviluted. PG County's "The Bus" is going to expand significantly soon, too, so I wouldn't be surprised so see more PG County WMATA routes either being discontinued or split up between the two of them.
I can't wait for "The Bus" to expand. My father lives in PG County next to the border of Maryland and DC, and there are absolutely none of those buses anywhere near. Also, Ride On took the C6 over with it's route 10. Anyway, I still consider Ride-On and WMATA to be good freinds, or really hard competitors.
WMATA operates the Ride-On routes such as the 36. Ride-On operates Metrobus routes on weekends that Metrobus doesn't want to operate. For instance, when the T2 is discontinued (which I doubt will ever happen), Ride-On will take it over immediately and rename it as a Ride-On route.
Okay, and here is a look at the big daddys of the low floor bus industry. There are quite a few different low floor buses, and here are basically the companies that make them.
New Flyer
Neoplan
NABI
NovaBus
Orion
El Dorado/National
Gillig
Wow, at least 6 companies make low floor buses. Let's check these out.
New Flyer has the world of low floors in it's hands. It's the most popular low floor bus. Now, Philadelphia is going to get them. Can they live up to their reputation in the city of brotherly love? Let's find out...
Neoplan. Unheard of! Unfortunately, not many transit agencies have these buses. Mostly airports get them as airport shuttles. This is one of the few companies to manufactor entire low floor buses.
NABI. The fastest growing bus manufactor in the country (and they didn't even have to purchase the RTS design). Those low floors are purposely bi level for more storage space in the back. Clever huh? Miami certainly thought so.
NovaBus has the only american full sized bus with a one piece windshield, the LFS. Quite quaint on the outside, the LFS certainly packs in it's seated passengers, making good use of any available space it can.
Orion has two low floors. It has the only low floor mini bus with a front engine, the Orion II, although it is bug ugly. It also manufactors the Orion VI low floor, a spitting image of the Orion V, only lowfloor and with a more different look. The VI is the rage in NYC, but, well, they aren't that great, and people were laid off due to it's unsuccessfulness.
El Dorado/National-These buses are barely known at all, for they run in California I think. They are also small and not that great.
Gillig makes one of the nicest looking yet not well liked Low Floor buses ever. It has a row of level and even windows, although it is bi level. Hertz loves them, bus fans hate them.
Well, there you have it. The big daddies of low floors. Right now, New Flyers and NABIs are the big daddies of low floors. However, there is a new competitor stepping up to the market. The RTS low floor. For years the RTS design has tormented the most innocent of buses, and now it's coming in a low floor design. Will this torment the big daddies of low floors, or will it become a dud, like the RTS-08?
The Orion VI is a nice riding bus (great pick up on 3rd Ave on the M103 the other nite )It's drawback is that it can't seat too many people.
Let us not forget the New Flyer D40i Invero, the new NovaBUS RTS low-floor edition and the equally all-new Orion VII...the three biggest new model announcements to date. (Can't wait to see the latter two!)
Neoplan's model is quite attractive, but it has a serious low seating capacity problem.
And then there is an all-new 45-foot long version of NABI's low-floor model. THAT I've gotta see!
<<< However, there is a new competitor stepping up to the market. The RTS low floor. For years the RTS design has tormented the most innocent of buses, and now it's coming in a low floor design. Will this torment the big daddies of low floors, or will it become a dud, like the RTS-08? >>>
I'm taking a wait and see approach on the RTS low-floor. The only credit that Nova deserves for the RTS is that they've been smart enough to continue manufacturing them - until now. The RTS was designed way back in the mid-1970's, and I seriously doubt that anyone who was involved in creating its timeless design is still in Nova's employ. And what has Nova done when it has a 'clean sheet of paper' to work with? Why, the LFS bus, of course. I know that some who post messages here actually like the LFS bus, but I think it is the weirdest looking transit bus I've ever seen. I just can't get used to it, and I'm glad that none of "my" transit authorities have bought any. The LFS has also been something less than a big success commercially.
In any case, even if the RTS low-floor is a good bus, the U.S. transit bus market has become a much more competitive place. New Flyer and Orion have grown from fringe manufacturers to major players, and NABI is on the rise. I believe that the days of RTS dominance are gone.
Jim (RailBus)
In any case, even if the RTS low-floor is a good bus, the U.S. transit bus market has become a much more competitive place. New Flyer and Orion have grown from fringe manufacturers to major players, and NABI is on the rise. I believe that the days of RTS dominance are gone.
Well, you've certainly said it, Jim, there are new leaders in the transit bus market. A decade ago, it was GMC, Flxible, and American General. Now, today, those are gone, and there are new leaders of the market. Orion, New Flyer, and soon NABI. El Dorado is sorta becoming more popular, and Neoplan, well, Neoplan remains the same, except that the articulateds are becoming more popular on the east coast while the 40ft buses are becoming less popular. Oh, and about RTS dominance, if it's not gone yet, it's going to be gone within this decade.
More accurately, 25-30 years ago it was GMC, Flxible, and AMGeneral - a generation ago would be more descriptive, not a decade.
I don't think the RTS is going to disappear as quickly as others may think. Look at how quickly companies stepped up to buy the design and keep it in production when the previous builder wanted to sell out. GMC, Greyhound/TMC, Nova Quintech, now Volvo/Prevost.
Artics were always popular on the east coast - WMATA and Pittsburgh PAT were two of the original operators of the MAN artic in the late 70s when AM General imported them. NJT's Volvos are 15 years old now.
The big push now is in the express service market. NJT took the lead with the first 700 MCI MC-9s in 1982. Now you have the MCI D-series, Neoplan's Metroliner, the New Flyer D45S - all going after transit auhorites to make the express routes more attractive. Look at the Staten Island service explosion after the first MCIs were delivered. Passengers say, "Ok, NOW I am getting a vehicle worth the premium fare, not just the transit body with high-back seats." NJT, NYCT, Delaware DART, Pittsburgh PAT, WMATA, Dallas DART, Denver RTD, Houston Metro, LA MTA, AC Transit (Oakland CA), and quite a few others all have intercity coaches for express/suburban service. Look at the big deal made over the NJT/MCI purchase of 1400 coaches at one shot - no large transit authority would make that size order of regular transit buses, even on a percentage basis (for NJT, that represented 48% of the fleet).
You guy's are forgetting about the "BRITS". Both Thomas and Chance are putting British Designed Buses into the US. Thomas have at present have the ALX200 Dennis Dart. This has a bigger sister the ALX300 available on Volvo and MAN running gear---Both of these are ready made for America and are proving very popular with the travelling public on this side of the Atlantic.
Chance are using the Irish Wright bodied version for their US low-floor's and this also has bigger version's powered by Volvo B7 and Scania on both normal size and articulated buses.The Brit's are coming and this time they may just make it.
Thomas SLF 200s (aka Dennis Dart w/ALX 200 bodies) are starting to show up at TAs lately. Word has it that Valley Metro (Roanoke, VA) will order two for its new Downtown Express run. With a small ridership, the 30' buses would provide adequate seating for Downtown Roanoke employees. The rest of the new bus order will likely be 35' Gillig Phantoms, as it has been since the first 5 arrived here in 1988.
However, all of our new buses may feature Cummins engines; from what I understand, the maintenance staff at VM has been displeased with the Series 50 setup in their newest coaches (these are 1994 models, which were the first year that 4-cycle engines were mandated, hence the mechanical bugs). Oh, if only the 6v92 was still available...
-F.
I know a couple of years ago someone at WMATA told me that they were contemplating using over the road coaches on the 12 line between Centreville, VA and the Vienna Metro. However, Fairfax County had balked at the idea of spending so much money for those types of buses. Those MCI's must have been demos for them to try it out because I never saw any around here and I've lived here all my life. I only see the "OmniRide" aka PRTC MCI's and Eagle buses. They park some of them at the WMATA four mile run garage a lot of times so they can get ready for their Pentagon runs.
That's a neat idea. Some local transit buffs and I were discussing that our TA and Blacksburg Transit (at nearby Virginia Tech) should come together and have an intercity shuttle service between the two towns as many students live here in Roanoke, and lots of people travel to and from each city for work.
Basically, an OTR coach or suburban would be great for the job; in fact, used coaches could be refurbished to save cost. I think this would be a great idea here for two neighboring communities who are almost an hour away; it would reduce traffic and tieups on I-81, which has become a big issue here locally.
Besides, it would possibly give our region a great excuse to buy up some of those neat Flxible Metro Suburbans; I'd love to see one in regular service on the highways here!
-F.
Actually LA has come close twice. They ordered almost 1000 RTS-04s in 1981, and now they have an order of 1000 NABIs coming in as well. I hope there's some severe problems with these buses as I fell there will be. I think they also ordered somewhere in the range of 900 TMC RTS buses.
What kind of intercity coaches does the WMATA have? I thought they were just Orion suburbans.
WMATA only has Orion Suburbans and a few Flxible Metro Suburbans. They have no intercity coaches. Baltimore MTA contracts with several contractors that operate over the road coaches and PRTC, which is operated with metro drivers have OTR buses, but they don't own any personally.
WMATA had some MCIs a couple of years ago, right after they saw the success NYCT had with theirs. If they're gone, then they returned them.
American General? Yeah right. The RTS losing it's dominance is NovaBus's fault. Had GM decided to keep building the bus to RTS-04 and 06 specs, they'd still be dominant. If GM ever gets it's hands on the RTS design again, there will be no competition.
I can see that. NovaBus has really screwed up the RTS design. Case in point: the ugly late-model RTS-08. At least TMC kept it somewhat true to form with the early 08 models. However, the best looking RTS by far is the 04 and 06; it still retains that great GMC front end that I've always loved. Oh, if only GM would do the right thing and get their baby back....
-F.
Does GMC even want to get its RTS design back? Or for that matter, even desire to return to the bus-building game at this stage?
To be honest I'd rather see GM (both US & Canada)get the Classic back rather than the RTS.To me the Classic was a much more appealing and better looking bus
I like the Classic as well; it's so neat to know that the 1959 Fishbowl platform carried on through the end of 1997. Also, I've heard lots of good things about these buses. I have yet to ride one...
I think the RTS and Classic look good in their own different ways. The Classic design is actually a pretty nice design. Did NovaBus stop making these buses? That's terrible if they did, killing of a classic like that.
The Classic was last produced in 1996. Considering the GMC New Look was introduced in late 1959, that's a production run of 38 years - and yes, there are some body panels from the last Classic that will bolt right up to the first 1959 New Look. By the way, 2001 is the 25th year of production for the RTS.
Unfortunately, yes. 1997 was the last year. It would be great to see these rolling back out again.
[To be honest I'd rather see GM (both US & Canada)get the Classic back rather than the RTS.To me the Classic
was a much more appealing and better looking bus]
I agree - I agree. Give me a Classic any day. The RTS is a bus I'm sure I won't miss much.
Wayne
I wouldn't want to see it. GM almost killed (due to lack of investment, and putting it on the market) the Electro-Motive Division in the mid 80's-early 90's, allowing GE to become the dominant force in the Locomotive market and I believe their bus & heavy truck business would have eventually met the same fate if it wasn't for the then Greyhound Corp.(former parent of MCI & TMC) and Volvo, respectively. I don't think they even have an interest in a whole lot other than their core auto business, which is giving them all they can handle these days (the decision to kill Oldsmobile comes to mind).
<<< GM almost killed (due to lack of investment, and putting it on the market) the Electro-Motive Division in the mid 80's-early 90's, allowing GE to become the dominant force in the Locomotive market and I believe their bus & heavy truck business would have eventually met the same fate >>>
GM really took their eyes off the ball in the 1980's. Chairman Roger Smith was too fascinated with high-tech robotics, Ross Perot's EDS and Saturn, and meanwhile their market-leading auto, bus and locomotive businesses were largely ignored. If GM had followed the General Electric model and focused on product lines where they could be #1 or #2 in the market, RTS buses (or their successors) would probably still be rolling out of Pontiac (and locos out of LaGrange).
Jim D.
If I were in charge of GM, here's whhat I'd do.
-First, I'd diversify the car lines.
-2nd, Diversify the Locomotive Line-Up and provide something other than high horespoer units
-3rd, I'd buy back the RTS design, tweek it a bit with some bells and whistles like Lexus Bubbles Lights or a sloped back for the LF model and watch the dough flow in.
Of course I'm not in charge of GM and that's all just a pipe dream.
Don't forget Gillig. They have become a major player in the past 10 years or so, especially with TAs who are no longer able to order the trusty Flxibles that they relied on for years. I understand they also have a great product support team, as did Flxible. Lots of TAs, especially here in Virginia, have proven this with large orders of new Phantoms: Valley Metro (Roanoke), HRT (Hampton), GLTC (Lynchburg), and GRTC (Richmond).
Other cities with large numbers of Gilligs include Chapel Hill, NC, SCVTA (CA), LA, Tri-Met (Portland, OR), GRATA (Grand Rapids, MI), Cincinnati, Toledo, and Akron, OH. Most of these also bought Flxibles exclusively for many years.
-F.
Looks like 1740 is the contest winner all though I don't think anyone on this board thought anything like this would happen. It's hard to say how the contest will end since retired & scrapped buses have a way of going back into service, at least in S.E.Queens. 1755 still sits in Jamaica depot, stripped of everything other than the actual vehicle hardware, meaning it can be pressed back into service also on very short notice.
However one thing that has been removed that wasn't on 1740 are the license plates. (Please don't ask me if 1755 will return as nobody at the depot even knows what's going to happen from 1 day to the next)
Several of you have commented on 1740 being on the X63 & X64 again. I believe that this bus only winds up there because the operator requests it. As you know, a few operators still like driving the 1982's and I will admit 1740 is not in that bad of shape. However, if I was the yard dispatcher, I would NOT give this bus to an Express line upon a request as the people deserve better than to have to ride a 19 year old bus from borough to borough. But most of the dispatchers will always assign you an old bus if you want it as it saves arguments later down the road over who get's the newer bus. The last 2 days I have observed 1740 only operating on the Q17 & Q42. It was mainly brought back because we are short on local buses again with 4129 down again with a major problem and a few others that were in minor accidents. On a bit of good news, 9072 is back in service again looking better than ever. It has new lights installed in a used engine panel. Now this bus would have been a good candidate to receive the L.E.D light retrofit if transit was doing that on their older pre-1999 RTS's.
BIG AL
1773 was on the Q79 as recent as Thursday. I'm off Friday and Saturday. Has it been scrapped?
Probably not scrapped yet-especially if QV is short. Saw 4010 on Q46 Friday night. Looked horrible-pork chop black panels on her too.
Q46#4010Gary
Well folks, here it is again...
Mr. Liggins' Best and Worst and (and other stuff) Bus List!
I'm Mr. Liggins and we move on to our nest category...
Most Underrated: Neoplan AN460
I know what you all are thinking, "I thought he hated these buses!" Well, I lied. There are in no way my favorite buses, but they aren't my most despised either. If the driver knows what he's doing and the bus is at least average, a Neo-Artic can get you where you need to go. They can get quite speedy and most have decent acceleration. Plus I like the way some are starting to sound like Grummans. Some may look bad on the inside and they will never last as long as an RTS, but they are decent buses, good ones for artics.
I, for one thing, love The Neoplan AN 460 articulateds. This was the best move that SEPTA ever made. The only two things that I'm not too crazy about them is the redesigned rear end and driver's window (it looks more like an Ikarus in those two aspects), otherwise, they are great and there is more legroom in the passengers' seats.
Congratulations, Mr. Liggins, you are starting to respect buses other than your "RTSs" and the New Flyers. Although I'll admit that I've only ridden one Neo artic, they have a nice interior, although different from the AN440s from the 80's. Maybe it's just the transit operator's choice on interior design, because the seats looked just like the seats of the Ikarus buses on the SEPTA fleet!
The Western Transit Society is now offering Wiking bus models for sale (and soon, other brands) at their website. You may order online, and pay through PayPal.
http://www.western-transit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?
(That question mark at the end IS part of the URL).
I am NOT the one selling them. I AM a member of WTS.
Do the articulated models actually bend?
Yes they do. I have 3 of them and they do bend. You can also go to www.diecastdirect.com (shameless plug)-check under buses. They have a siku articulated bus in ho scale that also bends. i have 7 of those and they really are sharp.
Has anybody noticed lately that GBL is now making it habit of just removing the Vultron signs on it WMATA Orions instead of trying to fix it.Is this because they are going replace them with roll curtains ,Luminator(like 719-722)or Ballos signs (5503).Or is it the fact that they don't care about there customer's being that almost every rider wants the city or another company (QS prehaps) to take them over.Even the one's that looked and ran so good at QS are trash now.
Even 5501's sign was broken as of Thursday-saw her on the Q60. Only buses that have had working signs as of late are 5504 5515 5542 and 5546. The buses need new signs for sure.
Q60#5515Gary
It is no wonder that the talk and rhetoric about doing away with the DOT operators is rampant. Particularly sad for this QSC rider is to see the daily degeneration of what was Orion 701-705. Recently these fine examples of maintenance have been spotted with the typical GBL scratched windows.
Yep,you can thank the Cooper's for what is going to be the possible end of NYCDOT bus operations.This would be a shame and not particullary fair to the owner's of QS,NYBS & LL;who's operations are equal to that of the NYCTA..Hopefully the prehaps the NYCTA and QS can pick up the Coopers routes out here in Queens & Brooklyn.
Hypothetically speaking, let's say these companies do lose their franchises. Where is a new operator going to get such a large fleet of buses from in short order? Naturally, they'll have to use the same buses that are in use right now! As for the drivers, mechanics, etc., they'll use the same people with one big difference: the city will break the union and these people will lose their homes because they will have to do the same work at much less pay.
[Hopefully perhaps the NYCTA and QS can pick up the Coopers' routes out here in Queens and Brooklyn.]
Not likely. The Coopers make LOTS of money with their cost-plus contracts and guaranteed profit margins. Making money on every cent one spends (including liability settlements, campaign contributions, and "penalties" for bad service) would be difficult for anybody to give up.
I don't want to see what's presently left of the "Surface Rainbow" in NYC die. (Forgive my sentimentality; that's the Fifth Avenue/Surface Transit in me talking.)
Hopefully, something can be worked out that will preserve the present private-line structure in Queens and Brooklyn and be beneficial to all parties.
Hello all,
I have to ask you guys to stop the business about trying to figure out who might or might not have once been named "Follo". I'm not going to indicate if anyone's right or wrong, but I will say that the next time the discussion comes up everyone involved is losing their accounts. Period, the end, no more discussion. If you have a problem with someone, killfile them. That's what it's there for. I'm not looking to get involved in any legal activity over this and unfortunately that's where this is heading, fast. Let this be a word of caution: If I get *one* letter from a lawyer, or have to take one minute of my time defending this site over legal matters, IT GETS SHUT DOWN. You all lose. That's it. I'm tired of this crap. Do you all understand?
-Dave
I understand clearly ,you won't have any problems with me Dave.
You have my apologies from me for post #26597 as I may have added fuel to the fire! Please delete it.
I was one of the few who encouraged this nonsense to stop. I could care less who that fool was. You won't have a problem with me in the future.
Mark
I added a pint of gas in the end, I apologize, you won't have any problems outta me anymore!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I was reading a book today about the history of Richard Petty's racing career and found a neat photo; it was a 35' Flxible Metro painted in black, and on the side of the bus is a huge illustration of Richard Petty's no. 43 Pontiac that goes over the wheels, complete with a cartoon King Richard himself smiling out of the driver's window. Also, the bus is outfitted with what looked to be either chrome steel rims or polished Alcoas. The bus was pictured circling a racing track and was specially painted around 1992 as a publicity stunt for Petty's last year of driving in the NASCAR circuit.
Does anyone know the whereabouts of this neat-looking bus today? I'm not sure of the TA but I believe it was somewhere in Florida. My hope is that it has been preserved as-is in the Richard Petty Museum, if not somewhere else. Does anyone have any more info or pics of this coach? Let me know; it is certainly a beautiful bus!
-Fred
If it was 1992 it to be a Metro-C then if I am not mistaken.Also even though it isn't BT material what a tragedy about Dale Ernhardt yesterday,his crash didn't look as bad as the one earlier in the race.
I agree. I was not a fan of his, yet I was shocked to find out about what happened to Dale Earnhardt. A lot of people felt the same.
If anyone can help me find info on the specially painted Richard Petty Flxible Metro from 1992, let me know. Thanks!
-Fred
Fred, can you do a wrap Flixible Metro Bus?
Possibly; what do you have in mind?
id be interested in buying one with the following agreements in mind:
Numbered #584
any wrap of any company you have in mind-if you want to wrap it via your company,be my guest. Example, when i was in mobile, alabama in 1990, the buses had wrapped of blockbuster video on their buses.
If this is able to do,let me know. I couldnt write out a check until the end of month,but email me if it can be done.
I can handle that; e-mail me for further details.
-F.
i lost your email address :-(. please email it to pingu45@aol.com and we can go from there.
This would be a interesting bus to design. Especially with the loss of Dale Eardheart(#3). Any plans to design a Flixible based on the color of the car he used to drive?
Although this is slightly off your question--there is a model of a Prevost H45 in black with the white # 3. It comes up on E-bay occasionally.
Hmm...I've seen those. They kneel and talk, too!
-Fred
That's not a bad idea; I'll look into it....
-F.
BRONX DIVISION
aMSTERDAM
Bx3,Bx6,BX13,BX15,BX36,Bx42,M100,M101,M104
GUN HILL--all routes preceeded by Bx
4,5,8,12,14,16,17,22,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,34,36,39,,,40,42
KINGSBRIDGE
-all routes preceeded by BX
1,2,3,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,,16,18,20,28,31,32,35,36,39,,40,41,55
MOTHER CLARA HALE--
Bx19,bx21,Bx33,M1,m7,m30 ,m98,,Lenox Av Shuttle (SH)
MANHATTAN DIVISION
126th STREET
M15,31,35,57,66,116
MANHATTANVILLE
M2,3,4,5,18,60,96,101,103
HUDSON
m6,8 ,9,11,14,16,21,22,34,
Q32
MICHAEL J QUILL
m10,20,23,27,30,42,50,72,79,86,96,98,102,106
x 90 ,,92
BROOKLYN DIVISION
EAST NEW YORK
B7 ,8,12,14,15,17,20,25,40,42,45,60,82,83
Q24,56
JACKIE GLEASON
B9,11,16,23,35,37,43,51,61,63,65,67,68 69,70 71,75,
.77
FLATBUSH
B2 6,31,39,41,44,46,49,78
FRESH POND
B13,18,20,24,26,38,39,48,52,54,57,
Q54,55,58,59
ULMER PARK
b1,3,4,6,
b36,64,b74
x25,27,38,29
qUEENS DIVISION
cASEY sTENGEL
Q12 13,14,15,16,20A 20B 26,27 ,28 32,44,48,48
58,74,76
X51
JAMAICA
q3,4,5,17,42,77 84,85
x63,64,
QUEENS VILLAGE
q1,2,30,31,36,43,46,75,79,83,88
x32,68
STATEN ISLAND DIVISION
CASTLETON
X2,3,9 ,10,11,12,13,14,16,18 20
s40 42 44,46,48 51,52,53,54,55,56,57,59 ,60,62,66,67,,74,76,78,90,92,94,96,98
YUKON
x1,2,3,4,5,6,7 8, 8 ,9 ,15,17,19,31
s 54,55,56,59,61,74,76,78,79,91
alot of routes operate SPLIT DEPOT OPERATION
When i was looking at glenn bus roster other day & i was suprise that GMC-RTS #4195 is really origianlly GMC-RTS #3506. When this that happen & what happen to origianlly GMC-RTS #4195? I have a picture of GMC-RTS #4195 that taken back in Aug, 1999. This they renumber the bus before Aug, 1999 or after?
Peace Out
David Justiniano
www.geocities.com/justin2669/NYCTransiTrans.html
( I was suprise that GMC RTS #4195 is really origianlly #3506.)
That's not for real. 3506 was never renumber to 4195. To me that must be a typo.
Dominick Bermudez.
GM RTS#3506
GM RTS#4195
Quite frankly, I do not believe this nonsense about imposter buses. Bus 4195 IS bus 4195. Bus 3506 is a 1984 RTS and was scrapped back in 1998. Apparently, they used some parts from 3506 on 4195, inclucing the destination sign access panel above the operator's head at the front of the bus. It is on that panel where you would find the bus number, and registration ID. Another alleged imposter is 1985 RTS 4211--it has been said to be 3496, which by now is a paper weight after being scrapped in '98. Bus 4211 is running out of Hudson, and 4195 is at MV.
Mark
If possible, all one has to do is check the license plate on the bus. The issuing number is always engraved on the lower right-hand side. In the case of a reman, or renumber, there will be a second numerical engrave on the left side of the plate towards the bottom corner.
POF :-)
Why doesnt Command or Triboro use the same window desgin as the MTA does? The MTA uses a plastic sheet to cover the windows so if they get scratched, they can remove the plastic cover and put a clean one on. This would improve the looks of Command's #300 series and Triboro's #600 and #700 series. Just a thought mind you.
Even better, why not take a cue from NJTransit and utilize the same style windows as their RTS' along with the aforementioned overlay protection? It would give them a truly distinctive appearance. I get a kick out of the "fake standee windows" look.
What are standee windows? I know they were those small windows in the Nwe and old looks and PCC trollies, but what are they on today's buses?
On today's coaches, those are pretty much incorporated into the whole window. Ever since the RTS and Grumman 870 were introduced, this has been the case as from that point on, bus windows have been so large that the need for standee windows were pretty much eliminated. An exception to the rule would be the opening oval units built into the side windows 1980 NYC Grummans; those could be regared as standees of sorts due to their position. They also give a neat look to the bus.
However, they still look neat on New Looks; in fact, after growing up around Flxible New Looks that had them, I can honestly say they look naked without them! The same holds true for their rear-mounted A/C units; they just look naked without them.
Come to think of it, standee windows would give a neat look to newer coaches...you never know, somewhere down the road a retro-thinking designer just might throw them on something. After all, the New Flyer Invero has a Fishbowl look to it; all it needs is standees and slanted side windows, and it would be a neat-looking bus!
-F.
-F.
The New Look Flixibles that the NYCTA(7500-7659)and MaBSTOA(7700-7937)had were w/o standee windows and didn't look to shabby.BTW NJTransit had them the same way for there suburbans at the same with almost the same #'s.I guess here in the NYC area we got use to them.
Yeah, the NYC Flxes looked really good. The NJT New Looks were OK, but the black around the windows took away from their styling; it works on Grummans and Metros, but not on the New Looks.
-F.
[The NJT New Looks were OK, but the black around the windows took away from their styling]
I believe the Flxible new looks originally delivered in NJ did not have the black around the windows. It was only when many of them were repainted into the New Jersey Transit stripe scheme that they got the black window treatment.
Yeah...but it still takes away from the styling. NJ tried too hard to make a classic Flx look like a Grumman 870. And that's just not right. Each bus looks good in their own right, but not when one is trying to look like the other.
-F.
I don't think it was necessarily trying to make one type of bus look like another. It was probably the more common goal of operators - to have each bus in its fleet, no matter what type, wear the identical livery. If that livery includes black trim around the windows, then all buses would get that treatment. I recollect that putting black trim around the windows of new-look buses was very big in the late 1970's and early 1980's. I, for one, thought the NJ Transit new-looks looked pretty good in the NJ Transit paint scheme with the black trim around the windows.
Count me in, too. I remember those buses cruising the streets of Jersey and always thought they looked nice in the black trim.
I guess I'll have to take another look. Actually, I do recall the older colors of these and it looked pretty bland, so the newer colors were somewhat of an improvement.
Yeah, that was a big fad back then; actually, the TTC Fishbowls look great in that scheme. I guess it's all in what you're used to.
-F.
I always thought the TA had ordered those 1975 Flxibles w/o standee windows because they had intentions of putting Bus-O-Rama signs on them - but as we know only MABSTOA's 7753 had the Bus-O-Ramas installed. I thought the standee windows looked better on new look buses. These probably were my least favorite Flxibles at NYCTA. Hey - Remember the fiasco with horizontal standee poles when these buses were delivered?
Wayne
Oh yea for standee control they had pole in the middle by the rear exit and they had a metal vertical pole right down the middle of the bus .Pus they they didn't have side destination signs( like the 8000/8300's when they had the batwings removed )
Yesterday.
I saw a MTA bus on Kew Gardens Rd. As I was walking home to 83 AVE.
It was TMC RTS #4891. Now that's rare to see a MTA bus on
Kew Gardens Rd. It say on the headsign this. " Not in service". That bus was on its way to do shuttle bus between 21 ST- Queensbridge and Court Square Subway stations via Queens Plaza Subway station.
Dominick Bermudez.
TMC RTS#4891
4891 out of FP is rarity for NYCTA buses in transit seating configuration.Instead of 2x1 seating like most of the fleet.She has 2x2 seating like the suburbans and NYCDOT buses.She was probably runing on the Q54 and they pulled her off that to do the Queensbridge/Queens Plz subway shuttle.
MTA-NYCB buses in non-revenue service use different routes to get to terminals. I've seen a NYCB Orion on Parsons Boulevard in Jamaica on its way to the Q44/20A/B terminal. I've also seen a bus signed as a Q74 at Main and Roosevelt. I also saw one Orion in downtown Flushing signed as a Q32. I guess it was on its way to the Northern Boulevard terminal. Sometimes, I've seen MTA-LIB buses on Kissena Boulevard south of Sanford Avenue (like by Kissena Park).
I rode LI Bus on the late afternoon of Presidents' Day. The driver said there were morning problems at Hempstead with buses so jammed on boarding that they left passengers stranded. A minute later, an N4 or N6 driver radioed that the bus was absolutely full. My suspicion (guess) is that even though Presidents' Day was both a national and state holiday, many people had to go to work, and the holiday bus schedules weren't ready for the crush.
There was a "Field Trip" in Brooklyn on many of the El lines from about 8:30 until afternoon. We saw some folks but none packed like a rush hour ... were any of the LI folks carying packages, i.e. lots of sales going on ?
Mr t__:^)
LI Bus really needs to beef up weekend and holiday service.
Low wage workers depend on the bus, and gardeners, housekeepers, and servants don't get the day off.
And would it be such a horrible thing if LIRR let these poor people ride the train when the bus is like that. The N6 isn't that far from the LIRR Hempstead line, so it was feasable.
-----IDEA----IDEA----->>
Then again, if I was in charge of LIRR, we'd have subway style trains and a Metrocard system. It'd be a hell of alot cheaper to operate, without having to pay those Conductors, it would more than make up for the lower fare revenue. But increased ridership would also make up for that.
Yeah, I know I'm crazy. :-)
While the adv. on the back of many LI Bues that I've seen recently doesn't mention him by name, they are looking for part time staff, offer "Great Benifiets" and want John to meet their "Great People".
Good luck to all you BO wantabees, it's that time of year, so get down to your favorite depot & tell them that, here you are just the guy/gail that they have been looking for and it's their good fortune that you came in today :-)
BTW, John too bad you couldn't make our Field Trip Monday, you would have enjoyed it.
Mr t
It sounded fun, but it's just too much a trek from here with LI Bus.
A LI Bus driver?? That's probably the last bus division I'd want to work.
But I could sabotoge the Cummins L10G engines. I wish those pieces of crap would go away, to a dump. They should replace them with the DD Series 50G. Cummins doesn't even make the L10G anymore due to poor sales (I wonder why?)
Saw bus number 115 getting towed in Franklin Square, yeah another Cummins crapped out.
Had 167 stall on the N27 last week.
Ok you Metrocard Maniacs, jot this down on your calendar:
The Metrocard Collector Show
Saturday, March 3rd 2001 will be held at
Soldiers and Sailors Club
283 Lexington Ave. between 36th and 37th Sts.
New York. NY
$2.00 admission at door
Imformation # (212) 563-5889
Website www.telecardtimes.com
Can you tell everybody how to get there?
Dominick Bermudez.
"Can you tell everybody how to get there? "
Roughly 283 Lexington Ave is between 42nd and 34th Sts. Any crosstown bus on 42nd St (M42 or M104) and 34th St. (M34 or M16). Get off at Lexingtoin Ave., walk a couple of blocksto 283 Lex.
On Lexington Avenue (Lex is one way south) take M 101,102 or 103 to 37th St.
283 Lex. is in walking distance from Grand Central Station, so you can figure what subway line go there.
Bill "Newkirk"
...Ahhh, that shall be music to my ears in a years time. I just overheard yesterday that Metro plans to get rid of the Ikarus buses starting next year. The drivers out of Hiram Clarke Deopt, an Ikarus stronghold, are very displeased with these buses but seem to have nothing but praise for these 20 year old buses. The drivers are hoping they will keep a few RTS around for emergencies. Also yesterday brand new D40LFs 3278 and 3287 were spotted. This means the end for the RTS. Speaking of them, 1980 and 1985 are back in service. 2150 is MIA and I think 2151 has been scrapped. Recent MIAs 2154, 1983, and 1986 are also back.
Last week I was riding the X18 into Downtown Manhattan, and I noticed that the bus I was riding on (#168 out of Castleton) sounded different. Upon talking to the driver the next day, I found out that they put engines similar to the Orion V Transit buses purchased in 1999 (#6001-6349). The result was a faster bus as well as a quieter ride. Buses #127,149, and 157 have also recieved the new engines.
Does anyone know if the NYC Transit is planning to put these new engines in to all of their Orion Suburban Coaches?
It's my understanding that all of the 1993 Orion V's are to have their DD 6V-92TA engines replaced with the latest version of the DD Series 50.
Wayne
Great!! Those buses will fly with the new DD Series 50.
I went on a transit style 1993 Orion5 that's #193 on the M7 on saturday morning. And it sound like the 1999 Orion5's and 193 have that whatdoyou call it pipe on the top rear on 193.
Dominick Bermudez.
Orion5 #193
Yeah I saw a Orion V suburban in the 11x series with a series 50 engine. Those 6V-92's are kind of noisy and slow. Still better then a Cummins tho.
windshield---any reports of front windshields not being protective!!
we have an operator ,that the glass never spider web but broke into mini pieces and enterd his eye--vision is loss tempy. and the eye could be loss forever . all ideas welcome,
thanks
Call a lawyer.....
Well how did it shatter? Was an object thrown or was it due to street obstruction? Oh, before you call a lawyer, see a doctor.
Last Thursday, bus #167 on the X18 out of Castleton, ran over some unknown object on Bay Street between Fingerboard and School Rd. What ever it was, it hit the bus right on the fuel tank causing massive diesel leak from just before School road to the last stop on the X18 going to Manhattan. Does anyone know the status of this bus now?
I was on 42nd Street and Avenue J when i saw it. It has church bus written on its side and parked in the driveway. it looks exactly like the SEPTa buses did. anyone with a camera get down there and get a picture of this bus. it looks really cool. why didnt DOT order these?
Still chugging along in service. Last seen this afternoon on the Q-79 (Little Neck Parkway). How's 1740 doing?
Well if you shop or live in downtown Flushing, looks like you'll still
be taking that Q25 or QBx1 to Linden and Farrington to get to that
Wendy's in the Pathmark shopping center.
Wendy's is still not ready to "return" to Flushing, in a
different location.
"We still have faith and enthusiasm for the Flushing community," said Wendy’s Denny Lynch. "But opening again in the area does not appear to be possible at this time."
Sure, continue to inconvenience people in Flushing who want to have decent fast food.
So if you want a Frostee and you're in Flushing, grap the latest QS Local bus schedule and get in line for a QBx1 or Q25.
Darn, I sure wish those buses would run more often because they can be PACKED.
According to the Daily News last week, the former Wendy's at Main/Roosevelt is going to be converted into a Wok-N-Roll Chinese fast food resturant.Also I ride QS namely because they operate the best running Orion V's (both 400's and 500's)in the New York City Metropolitan area (including Nassau,Suffolk & Westchester)
Yeah those Orion V CNG's that QSC operates are great. The DD Series 50G is one smooth, fast engine. Unfortunately you can't get too much speed while taking the QBx1 or Q25 up to Pathmark, because of traffic and lights.
I like the seats in the QSC Orions the best.
My only complaint is I wish buses would be more frequent on the Q25 and QBx1. I sometimes have to wait awhile for a bus to/from Farrington when I go to Wendy's.
BTW the quote is from the Queens Tribune website (www.queenstribune.com) in their article on Wendy's.
It's a good thing Dave Thomas don't run NYC transit, because everytime there was a shooting that part of the system would be closed for at least two years. Imagine the chaos!!!
Well. If you don't want to go to that wendys on Linden and Farrington.
You can allway's go to the one in Kew Gardens. How to get there.
Take Q44 or Q20 to the Pike then take Q46 to the last stop heading westbound. Then Walk to 82 Rd and you there.
I go to the one in Kew Gardens because It's near by my house and not too many people Eat in. The bad time to go to the Wendys in
Kew Gardens is 12:00 PM-2:00PM. Because It gets PACKED. On weekends. You can go to wendys in Kew Gardens anytime you want.
Dominick Bermudez.
So there IS a Wendy's in Kew Gardens! Before I found this out, the nearest one with a subway connection nearby, to my knowledge was the one in Jamaica on Parsons and Jamaica.
>The bad time to go to the Wendys in Kew Gardens is 12:00 PM-2:00PM. Because It gets PACKED.
That's because it's lunch time for the nearby court house. When I was in jury duty in the civil court on Sutphin, there was a McDonald's under construction near the train station, another McDonald's at Parsons (across Parsons from the Wendy's), and one I found out about as I was returning the court house, just a block north. I went to the second one. It was raining a bit, but it was reasonably inhabited.
If your main means of travel to and from Flushing is the N20/21, I've got to believe there's at least one Wendy's along that route between the City Line and Flushing. To and from Nassau County, you could use a combination of LI Bus and NYC Bus to stop over at such Wendy's, rather than make a special trip on the Q25 or QBx1. Another alternative - White Castle at Bell and Northern Boulevards!
There's one in Bayside. I do usually prefer to get the N21 at Flushing since all the seats are taken by the time the bus leaves Flushing.
The bus empties out alot at Great Neck tho.
I am probably going to change my travel plans and exclude Flushing from them. I'll take LIRR from Great Neck to Manhattan, especially on weekends, avoiding Flushing altogether.
I can eat at Wendy's in NYC. I'm not gonna worry about 20 freakin cents. It's not worth the agrivation to save such a small amount of money(re Premium Wendy's)
The worst part of the N21 is in Queens anyways and I won't miss it.
Yep, and I am sure the people in Queens wont miss you.
You mean Flushing. On weekdays I can take the F to 179st, where I can get the N6,N22,22A,or N24 and connect to the N27 back home.
There's Wendy's in Elmhurst, Kew Gardens, as well as Roosevelt Field, so there are many more opportunities along the way, much more than the Flushing route. And Elmhurst is a much nicer area than Flushing, no offense.
There is a Wendy's location between downtown Flushing & City Line.It is at 220th St & Northern Bl.As for the White Castle by Bell & Northern .I would rather eat a burger at the Jackson Hole Diner on 35th & Bell.
You may just find a few employees of QSC at these places around noon.
My little group does White Castle about once a month (just to clean out the plumbing) and Wendy's at 230th & Northern & Burger King there.
A little closer in to the city is a Tacco Bell, a Mickey D's, a Kentucky Fried Chicken, and another Burger King.
The hot dog truck on Woodhaven & St John's Cem. has better bus watching (Green, Command, TA).
Mr t__:^)
Attention All: I'm gonna be having an email change due to personal reasons. This will be my last post as R142A#7215Gary. Also I'm not going to have a handle that has defunctional cars that are not even on the road. Say so long to 7215 and hello to a new name coming very soon.
R142A#7215Gary.
Are you still going to post info on the suburbans that you find on the Q46 and outher routes in Queens? Are you still going to do that?
I going to cry.
Dominick Bermudez.
Umm, I'd hate to break it to ya, BUT the R142s are not disfunctional, the reason they pulled them off the road was for speeding, not for a defect and they have been returned to the road after the speeding fiasco. SPEEDING = DRIVERS FAULT!!!!!
Can't wait to see this new name!
Trev
There's an article on page B1 of today's Wall Street Journal that television screens inside municipal buses to broadcast a package of news and weather - and lots of ads - are on the way. According to the article, one system is being tested on about a dozen Lynx buses in Orlando, Florida. The article says that similar systems are being tested in London and Singapore. Information on upcoming bus stops is also given. I don't think you can get the article from www.wsj.com unless you are a subscriber, but if you're interested in this subject, you may want to spend 75 cents on a print copy (or borrow someone else's).
I have to get that WSJ today. But can NJ Transit just have the TV screens on Buses with Restrooms. Like the buses on Route 318 from NYC to Cape May via Atlantic City.
Dominick Bermudez.
I look at the WSJ. I just finsh looking at it. I notice that it's the inside of a Suburban Gillig that LYNX owns. I know that LYNX put the TV screens in Suburban Gillig's. Did LYNX ever put TV screens on a Suburban Orion's?
Dominick Bermudez.
They tried something similar in Pittsburgh several years ago but it was didn't go over all that well and the project was abandoned.
I see the reasoning behind this, money, but I don't think it will prove as successful as they think it will be. Most people already are accustomed to mentally tuning out ads and this will be the same. Plus it's doubtful that they can use sound in the news, route info and the ton of ads due to safety concerns (distracting the driver) especially in a large system.
16 buses of the Transit Windsor system in Windsor, Ontario have two TV monitors apiece which do nothing but run ads spliced with very infrequent and inaccurate weather reports.
If I were not a transit enthusiast, I would take offense to this idea and it might even turn me off from riding the bus altogether. What kind of transit system is so revenue-starved that it must subject its customers to this kind of nonstop advertising?
I personally think that transit buses should be devoid of advertising completely. No exterior ad racks, no ad labels on front, and certainly no wrapped buses. I can tolerate interior carcards as these can be useful to the passenger as well as worthwhile for the advertiser.
I think it is very degrading to be slammed with advertisements en route, not to mention annoying. Transit Windsor has set aside certain spots on TV ad buses where supposedly the ad noise does not reach, but I sat in those seats and I could still hear some two-bit local celebrity telling me why I should drink Labatt's Blue.
Tis kind of offensive advertising is another item for anti-transit, I-want-my-car folk to add to their list of reasons to stay off transit.
I hope all of these transit TV ad projects fail.
Neil
The 16 buses that Transit Windsor Buses with TV screens mainly run the Detroit-Windsor route via Tunnel. That route is called
"Tunnel Bus". For some strange reason why call that route
"Tunnel Bus"?
Dominick Bermudez.
The 16 buses that Transit Windsor Buses with TV screens mainly run the Detroit-Windsor route via Tunnel.
That is not true at all. First of all, the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel Bus only requires about 4 buses peak. Second, the Tunnel Bus, except for a few designated accessible trips, uses older Classics and New Looks. These buses do not have the video advertising equipment.
That route is called "Tunnel Bus". For some strange reason why call that route "Tunnel Bus"?
Simple. It goes through the tunnel between Detroit and Windsor. Could you think of a better name?
I'll call any bluffs about transit in Detroit/Windsor, so don't try to pass off misinformation as the truth.
Then witch bus do have the TV Screens in them?
Dominick Bermudez.
Then witch bus do have the TV Screens in them?
Transit Windsor's newest buses are the ones with the advertising TV screens, although they were not delivered with the screens.
They are Orion VI's (412-422) and Nova LFS's (549-553). While these buses do make occasional appearances on the Tunnel Bus, by no means are they restricted to the Tunnel Bus. A good place to find these buses is on Windsor city route Transway 1C, which is a long route winding its way between many different points throughout Windsor. This route runs about every 15 minutes until past midnight. Most of the ads on the TV's are for local businesses.
The Tunnel Bus, for the most part, uses GM Classics and GM New Looks. When you add the variety of Transit Windsor's fleet to that of SMART and DDOT, there is some interesting bus watching in downtown Detroit, better than one may think.
On the topic, here is a Transit Windsor fleet roster for anyone who is interested:
401-410
1984 Orion I 40 foot
411-412
1992 Orion V
413-423
1999 Orion VI
501-548
1986-1992 GM/MCI Classic
549-553
1998 Nova LFS
901-921
1977-1982 GM T6H 5307N
plus a few scattered Orion II's. Transit Windsor used to have some used Grumman 870's, too, but these disappeared in 1999.
Vaughan Transit have 2 of ex Transit Windsor Grumman 870's the numbers are #601 and #606. Also Transit Windsor 1991 MCI classic's #543-#548 was a Methanol Bus now a diesel bus. Also some Orion2's are retired. One of them is badly beaten.
Dominick Bermudez.
Do you have any photos of those buses with TV's in them?
So the 1999 Orion6 #413-#422.And 1998 Nova LFS #549-#553 have the TV's in them. I get what are you saying.
Dominick Bermudez.
Nova LFS#550
Orion6 #420
#412 Is a 1992 Orion5. NOT a 1999 Orion6.
Dominick Bermudez.
Orion5 #412
I DONT AGREE I think that ads on subways and buses would be great. People would look at them. In NYC now elevators in some buildings have what i imagine is the same system. remember how long does an elevator take to reach a floor but they are spending money on them. It must work
Advertising is what pays the money that keeps drivers and buses on the road. I worked in radio for three years, and the same applied there. Ad spots, while sometimes annoying, kept both myself and the station on the air. Remember that when you see ads on buses and just be thankful that bus is still on the road.
-F.
It's now available on my web site's Download Center (click below. EXPRESS -> Main Line -> Download Center). It's a little different from the version that requires a QuickBasic compiler. This version doesn't.
What's your link to your website? Hey everybody I have come back to BusTalk-WHASSSSSSSUP! ;) LOL!
B61#823Gary
yeah, yeah, yeah, gimme the link as well, pleeeeeze??
OK. This is a direct link to my web site.
Click here Take the EXPRESS train to Transfer Point. Click on the Main Line then click to the Download Center. Scroll down. It's the first link under the Programs section.
How do you use this bus sign? Can you actually program it for different destinations, or is it just a look see thing?
hey, i was wondering if anyone can give me a list of all the bus sign destinations, just incase i forget what to type for a bus route. this would serve good for anyone who wants that list of bus sign destinations as well. thanx, really appreciate it!
Whoa! That download process took long. By the way, I have a new set of R110B/R131s. I made some modifications.
[By the way, I have a new set of R110B/R131s. I made some modifications.]
Great! E-mail it to me.
Bus Sign for Windows version 1.0 Patch 1 is out! It fixes some problems, and includes a font update.
If you download the full version of Bus Sign after the time stamp on this post, you don't need the patch.
OK, so I was away from the board for a week. I come back, and what do I see? A dramatic increase in stupidity. Someone's sniffing bus fumes. 'Follo'-type messages from numerous nameless people. Posts that make me cringe.
What the hell happened?
-Hank
If I was you, i'd lay off the Follo Fiasco for a while!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
THat's why it's 'several nameless people'
-Hank
Read thread: NOTE ABOUT HANDLES - PLEASE READ - from our host.
Arti
I read the thread on Subtalk, where a similar thing started happening, but the regular idiot took the prize. The heavier traffic on Subtalk also means that stupid messages get buried faster.
-Hank
Let's drop discussion of this altogether. I don't want to see anyone pull the plug on BusTalk; I enjoy this site too much and I think I speak for everyone on the message board when I say that everyone can agree with me.
No, you don't.
-Hank
I agree with Flxible 100%. If you don't enjoy the board Hank, I have an idea for you. STAY OUT OF IT!
BIG AL
Ever have a buddy with a girlfreind you couldn't stand? You hang out with them anyway, because you enjoy your buddy's company, despite your dislike of his girl. It doesn't preclude you from critisizing his choice of girls, or critisizing her.
That's what this place is like. And when someone claims to be speaking for 'everybody', when others KNOW he does not (in that they disagree), you're not speaking for them.
-Hank
Volvo in Talks to Buy Bus-Maker New Flyer, News Service Reports
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Feb. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Volvo AB, the world's second largest truck maker, has begun talks with Den Oudsten BV to buy its North American bus-making unit, New Flyer Industries Ltd., Stark's News Service reported on its Web site.
New Flyer makes more than 3,500 urban transit buses each year at its Winnipeg, Manitoba, plant and at two other sites in Minnesota, the news service said. Den Oudsten, Holland's largest maker and seller of buses, bought Flyer Industries Ltd. in 1986 and renamed it New Flyer Industries Ltd., the news service said.
The value of New Flyer was not immediately known, the news service said. A Volvo spokesman declined to comment on the talks.
Volvo Chief Executive Leif Johansson said yesterday that the company may use a $1.29 billion cash payment from Ford Motor Co. for the sale of its car-making unit to make acquisitions, the Financial Times reported.
Thanks for this update, but I'm nearly sure that Volvo sold its stake in NovaBUS two years ago.
Volvo has owned 51% of Nova since 1996 and have not sold their share. The other 49% is owned by the British firm Henley's, but Volvo controls Nova (actually they control Prevost, who own Nova).If they buy New Flyer as this reports suggests, it will sure shake things up.
Actually, Nova was bought by Volvo in 1998 (I thought it was 96), below is from the novabuses.com web site:
"In March 1998, Prévost Car Incorporated, a subsidiary of Volvo Bus
Corporation, acquired the assets of Nova BUS Corporation. Prévost Car is
owned by Volvo Buses (51 percent) and the Henlys Group (49 percent). Nova BUS will continue to manufacture and market urban transit buses under the NovaBUS name."
Hmmmm ... could the New Flyer low-floor bus be the heir to the RTS throne ???
Jim D.
Yesterday. My mom told me this that She over heard people complaning about the people waiting 2Hours. My mom heard this when my mom want to take the B38 at 12:30PM Yesterday.
She saw 20 people waiting for the B38 bus to come since 10:30AM. But my mom walked where my mom need to go. At 2:00PM. My mom saw 3 Buses on B38. So that means the 20 People that was waiting for the B38 bus had to wait almost 31/2 Hours just to wait for the bus to come.
What happin on Dekalb yesterday?
Dominick Bermudez.
OK, please explain how you are able to assume that there was no service between 10:30 and 2:00 because your mom didn't see any buses? That's about as easy to understand as an anti-transit person on another discussion board saying he only sees empty buses, but won't say where on the route he sees them empty.
-Hank
Hello.
My mommy over herd the person talking to the transit superviser at Dekalb Ave claming that there was no buses comming since 10:30AM.
My mom told me this when she came home at 5:15PM Yesterday. My mommy saw 20 people waiting for the B38 bus at 12:30PM Yesterday.My mom waited for the B38 just 10 Minutes.
Dominick Bermudez.
Hank
Leave the kid alone,,and stop being so supercritical !!
I just turn 13 years old. What a man hank is.
Dominick Bermudez.
Like I can tell from here? Like I care otherwise? Ask around, I've ripped others for less. I left your spelling and grammar alone (as promised previously to others)
But we've had other believeability problems, which is why I asked how you could assume there was such a large gap in service.
Stay in school.
-Hank
Hank.
I have no school this week because of Mid Winter resuss.
I am In 7 Grade. And My Mommy told me this on wednsday night when she came home.
Dominick Bermudez.
I didn't suggest you weren't atending at all, I was suggesting that you attend until you graduate.
-Hank
Hank, it's stuff like that;that make Dave pull the plug on our forum and I for one don't want to see that happen ok.
They have a web site
http://www.balios.com/index.htm
I also have the telephone number found on the signs
(418) 856-3318
The 418 area code is Quebec, Canada.
I looked at the Balio link. However, I have a hard time with the basics. I get the impression that newer vehicles are being delivered with LED's rather than flip-dots. For example, the new LI Bus Orions (in the 300-range) seem to have LED's. Sometimes they are bright, clear, sometimes dim. On HBLR the LED's are difficult to read except when one is standing straight in front of the sign, dangerous if you are trying to read the front sign! On the LIRR Kawasaki double-deckers, the LED's also can be read only face-on. If one is boarding the train, one can't read the new sign on an angle. Cloth signs and flip-dots could be read at an angle, but the LED's on MTA purchases (Coney Island Avenue?) look great only sometimes. Could someone explain? Thanks. Joe McMahon
Yesterday as I was riding the Q60 bus from church, I saw a GBL bus across Queens Blvd from the bus I was riding on (#605, as I was sitting next to a wet seat). T noticed the bus had those orange LED signs from the Balios signs seen on other buses. I also noticed that the side of the bus I saw had a black stripe around the level of the windows, not the wrapping that 5503 has. I tried to get a closer look at what the sign said, but except for the text "Q60," I couldn't. I then tried to find a bus number. It was 5501.
Does this mean that the rest of Green's Orions (5502, 5504-5550) will get them, too?
BTW, I'm seeing more GBL Orions with the new New York license plates.
I think I know what you're talking about.
The newer NABIs in Baltimore (99xx and 00xx series) have the Ballios destination signs. It's hard to describe how some of the destinations refresh, but suffice to say it does differ from a typical Luminator or TwinVision sign.
Some signs (eg. 35 - Downtown) don't refresh at all; quite a few (eg. 17 - Arundel Mills; 23 - US 40 & Rolling Rd) scroll across the sign; still others (eg. 120 - Downtown/Flyer/Express - I think that's what the sign says) flash across the screen without scrolling.
Another interesting feature of the newer NABIs is the "jumping" block sign. The position of the block number shifts every few seconds for whatever reason.
[Another interesting feature of the newer NABIs is the "jumping" block sign. The position of the block number shifts every few seconds for whatever reason.]
I see this on the Luminator signs. I seen this anomoly on the Q44.
This should be the theme music for 1740. Saw her this morning doing express service at Second Avenue and 37 Street, though a bit smoky on take off. Don't cash in your chips yet; I think the last surviving 1982 RTS contest just received it's second (or third at this point) wind.
Also spotted: 611 on the Q46 eastbound. It looks like QV has "Casey-itis" in placing it's express Orions on local routes. It's no wonder the seats in those things are all collapsed out on the bottom. They are also showing signs of vandalism with grafitti, scratchitti and the occasional torn seat. From what I remember, when QV received the Nova express coaches, they never did any 'hard time' on the local routes. Why the sudden shift?
well our orion suburbans at yukon are doing fine. they include 120,125-126 and 139-143. these eight buses have seen little if any service since they returned in early january.
Easy question, easy answer. QV's soft seaters are doing time on the local routes because they probably have the same problem Jamaica depot has. They are short on local buses. And since NYCT hasn't scrapped any buses lately, there is nothing to send over to S.E. Queens!
BIG AL
go to
http://community.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT/WESTCHESTERAND
Help yourself,an updated list of routes and Destinations Signs
If you need any route descriptions,,feel free to ask
Implementation June 2001
Proposed Service Revision
B7 Weekend Extensions
8 AM to 8 PM
extend to Coney Island Avenue
Proposed Route---
from Flatush ,on Kings Highway
Via
Kings Hwy ,Avenue P.East 18 streeet,Kings Hwy ,Quentin Road to stand at Coney Island Av
Return via Coney Island Av,Kings Hwy to Flatbush Av
Presently Terminates at Kings Hwy and Ryder Street on Weekends
Shades of the B-50 which, along with the B-5, formed the B-82. (If I remember correctly)!
that's right-and I'll say this: It makes sense to extend the B7 so I'm pro on the deal. But it should be like the B82, one out of every 5-6 buses should end at Flatbush or something. The fact is that with this supposed Ulmer Park transition, more routes will be served by ENY and they will need the buses for it. They should extend the B7 but that can't make it so every bus goes all the way.
I took an N72 from Levittown to Babylon this morning.
It was fast ride, a nice change from the frequent stops of the N21.
And we did manage to get one of the new buses, which did pretty well along route 109.
Also there are TWO new Wendy's along the route. One is on Hempstead turnpike in Bethpage (is almost done), and the other along Route 109, right across from the airfields.
They seem to be in an expansion mode, sadly this does not include Flushing. Wendy's probably knows something we don't.
They probably have proof that Flushing is an unsafe, high crime area.
And I'll take their word for it, since their plans more or less say that.
Also one other thing. I saw an RTS getting off Route 135 heading west on Hempstead turnpike. It had blue, yellow, and white paint on it I think, and a design that looked like a cactus.
John, what you probably saw was one of the three former Bee Line (Westchester) RTS Model II Series 3 that are now owned by Commercial Driver Training School in West Babylon. This school teaches (for a fee) how to drive buses and tractor-trailers. The fact that you saw this bus about 10 miles or so from the yard is what makes me think its Bee Line. Those three are slope-back RTS with adapter kits bolted on to the slope.
I've seen them before, once on Wantagh avenue and on Sunrise highway.
I have yet to see them on the north shore. Perhaps it's too much of a risk to drive around here with students!!
North shore is quite a challange, even for professional drivers.
Do those former Bee Line buses still have the seats?
Don't know the interior make-up of the buses. When the weather gets warmer and all this snow melts, I will get over to the yard and take some pics including with the rear door open. They are gull-wing type doors just like the Jet-Away Slope Back at Belmont. Hopefully, I will be allowed to peek inside and answer your question. I would guess there has to be some seats, otherwise where would the instructor and other students sit.
I have been updating my collection of little NJT Bus drawings to have both passenger and driver side views of the buses. Currently only the 40' Nova and the MCIs are done. Please leave your email address if you want one(Site is undergoing major repairs). I have the following models.
RTS-01
RTS-04
RTS-06(NYCT)
RTS-06(NJT 40')
RTS-06(NJT Airlink)
RTS-06(NJT 30')
Metro-B
Metro-D
870-B
870 Mobile Command
870 Airlink
870(NYCT)
102-DL3
MC-9
96/A3
Orion V
MC-9A(NJT 6100-6101)
MC-9A(all others)
MC-9B
MC-9B(Atlantic City-NYC)
Coming Soon will be
102-DL3(Lakeland)
102-DL3(Amtrak)
possibly a low-floor or artic.
Page is ready and I will be replacing the background with a wallpaper of NJT 1288 from Trevor's site. The collection is at http://www.geocities.com/njt4148/busgifs.html
Amtrak and NYCT are on the Amtrak and NYCT pages of course. and please sign the Guestbook while moving from the Buses to Amtrak or NYCT.
NJSTA. I have a problem with your website. And it says
"This site is under construction".
Can you fix that problem?
Dominick Bermudez.
I know this is probably not these best place to post this but I'm having a problem with the Bus Sign program I DLed from R-36's website. I keep getting Run Time Errors and the Side and Front Signs don't work. If anyone has any solutions, I'd appreciate the help.
I am having the same problems.
BUS SIGN seems like a really cool program which will probably be sucking hour upon hour of my time away, but it doesn't work! Even on the rare occasion that I can get a sign up, the pixels are misaligned.
Please fix this, I would love to enjoy BUS SIGN!
Thanks
Where and what is BUS SIGN?
Read this for the where
As for the what, it actually simulates a bus sign, hence the name. Unlike the real bus signs, where the operator types in a number corresponding to a message that is displayed on the sign, users of Bus Sign type in the actual text of the messages.
As for ther pixels, install the font in the videoterminal.zip file.
I had the same problem with pixel alignment... it's amazing what one can accomplish by reading a Read Me file! I was having loads of fun with it last night, anyway, despite the wavy text. Another problem I'm having, though, is that the program appears not to like non-alphanumeric characters. Specifically, I'm getting a "Run past end of file" message when trying to use an exclamation point or apostraphe. Other than that, it's great!!
Yes, I saw the post regarding the program *after* I posted my reply. Anyway I can't use that, although it would come in handy with the making of my site. I use {shudder} "WebTV" as my {{ahem}} "browser"... NO downloading.. no .exe no nuttin...
Oh well.. thanks for the link anyway.
Ugh... no computer?? If you have one but it isn't connected to the internet, the program is small enough to fit on a disk, and I could get you a copy that way.
Rob, any plans for a Java version? :D
http://developer.webtv.net
bring chips and have a few laughs on me :-)
The following is taken directly from my "Bus Signs" page. It's a little dated, but it's still valid.
PROBLEMS
I get an Input past end of file error trying to run Bus Sign.
It's most likely a problem with the font file. None of the font files has support for all 26 small letters, and some punctuation. The characters that come with the font files are displayed in the following table
I have put up a patch on my "Download Center" page for Bus Sign. But it doesn't have all the characters in the FNT files. I hope the above table is useful. I hope to do another font update soon.
Try reinstalling it.
To Dominick Bermudez and anyone else who wants to see what bus 9607 looks like and Suffolk Transits old livery was the site is
http://129.49.33.85
If you click enter you get another picture...Click on schedules you get the full listing of routes and times.
Recent posts have been made regarding the RTS, and how GM/GMC should buy the design back, and they'd make gobs of money.
Won't happen.
Buses have NEVER made gobs of money. These are BID ITEMS, folks. If you want the contract, you have to beat the other guy's price. GM sold its bus business in 1987 for two very important reasons.
1) GM had a mandatory edict to get a 15% return - the bus operations were losing money.
2) The mid 80s were the years of Reagan budget cuts. UMTA had their grant allocation SLASHED. Outside of orders from NYCTA, there were very few requests for the RTS. GMC Truck & Coach closed the line several times PER YEAR because of no sales. NJ Transit did not make a single new transit bus purchase from 1983 to 1989. The artics were planned for years, and they were able to secure money for the former NYC Flxibles because they were used buses at 65% of the new bus price.
Now, in 2001, you've got a glut of manufacturers again. Neoplan, New Flyer, NovaBUS, Gillig, NABI, Orion - all fighting for an extrememly limited market. When GM was number one, they only had to contend with Flxible and AM General, since they drove everybody else out of business. Greyhound/MCI bought the RTS and Classic in 1987, and sold it eight years later - the transit buses were draining profits from the intercity coaches. Nova Quintech bought the RTS and Classic in 1995 - three years later, they had to sell themselves to Volvo/Prevost because they were slowly headed for bankruptcy, despite the sales backlog. BUSES DON'T CREATE PROFIT. So why the heck would GM want to re-enter a business where there's too much capacity to begin with, and they can't make any money?
several of these manufacturers are now facing bankruptcy or were recently.
Does every transit operator have to buy low bid ? NYCTA bought a lot of RTS's, which are not normally the low bid producer, but MSBA/LIB had to buy junk from Orion and Gillig.
The RTS was the only bus approved by NYCT after the Grumman-870 disaster. In 1993, Orion finally slipped by, probably due to NY State politics seeing as how Orion builds its buses in New York. Orions are getting better though, well the Orion VI is anyway. I still think NYC should still buy RTS buses.
[I still think NYC should still buy RTS buses.]
I assume you know that GMC sold the "RTS" brand name to TMC, who then sold it to Nova, who is a Volvo company. We had a lot of trouble with the TMCs ... much more then with the Orions from '98 & on.
I get the feeling that the Nova RTS coaches are better then the TMC ones .... ?
Mr t__:^)
Because of its size, NYCTA has always been exempt from federal bidding procedures on buses. They are free to negotiate bus purchases, in the same way all TAs can now do, since the regs were relaxed a few years back. NJT's purchase of 1400 MCIs was a negotiated contract, not a bid.
My recollection is that, prior to the relaxation of the regs you refer to, any transit authority that utilized Federal funds in part for bus purchases had to use the low bid method. I don't think NYCTA was exempt - I think they could use a negotiated contract because they did not use Federal funds for many bus purchases. (I always wondered why that was the case!) Once the regs were changed, transit authorities could use the negotiated contract or bid method rather than pure low bid.
We're now an all Orion fleet at LIB. It's pretty boring. It sure would be nice to have some RTS's in the mix.
BTW, which LI Bus should you try to avoid riding (or driving)?
A)Diesel Orion V powered by DD 6V-92
B)CNG powered Orion V powered by Cummins L10G
C)CNG powered Orion V powered DD series 50G
If you guessed B, you're correct!
What happened to all of those Gilligs that LI Bus used to have?
They were put in storage when LIbus got the 2000 Orion V's(288-350)
Where are they stored??
Probably at the Mitchell Field depot.
Are there still the 7 Flexibles and 7 RTS's (from NYCT) mothballed on the property ?
Any suburban Fishbowls out in back in Mitchell Field ?
I believe Nassau County PD has one or two.
Yesterday, I was going to meet my mom at the train station. There were a couple of inches of snow on the ground by this point. I saw a B24 bus coming so I decided to take it. As I put my card in the box, the driver was looking at my feet like I had three of them! The driver let me off at the turn pocket at Greenpoint and 47th St. As I looked back, I saw another northbound B24 bus at the bus stop on 47th Street and Greenpoint, another northbound B24 at the 46th Street stop, and another northbound B24 at the stop at 44th Street! The two buses at the 44th and 46th Street stops had hazard lights on. As I was coming back with mom, I saw that those buses were still there, but the other two (turn pocket and 47 & Gpt bus stop) were gone.
What was going on?
Same with the B2 except nobody stared at my feet. The B2 usually runs every 8-10 minutes on the rush and I stood for an hour in the snow {No, I'm not crazy} watching them seeing if they stayed on schedule in the weather. Well, after seeing one go by, I saw two in a row go by the other way. About 7-8 minutes later, another one went by. It takes about 20 minutes for the buses to go down the way they were going and come back. The first bus that went down there didn't come back for at least 35 minutes. I figured that more buses were being sent down there from the depot {the direction they were all coming from} and the reason why was because they were all falling into a giant pit at the train station or something. But after the long 35 minute wait for that bus to come back, I went home, as it was getting increasingly windy. Oh well.
yesterdays snow and ice resulted in 17 city buses getting stuck on nelson av between hylan and amboy on staten island. even broadway and 23 street in manhattan were sheets of ice. a great job by sanitation and i can hear guiliani shouting their praises now.
...even broadway and 23 street in manhattan...
Ah, that explains why Madison Ave was completely blocked by four buses parked across it near Madison Square. I had a feeling that was the reason :).
I saw three buses idling on Main St at 78 Rd last night, the first two destination signs read "NOT IN SERVICE," and the third was "NOT IN SERVICE/LIMITED STOPS" (probably a Q20A, Q20B, and Q44, respectively); the third was blocking 78 Rd entirely. I venture to guess they were stuck, too.
<>>
Those three were actually 10 at one point. That 6138 was actaully propped against the curb of the northwest corner acting like a chock to keep it from going anywhere else. If you walked up from 77 road, it would appear as if the bus was on the sidewalk because of the overhang. There were one or two buses that ended up sliding perpendiclular to main stret at one point as well. Besides the weather they had no forward momentum up the hill b/c main is always jammed up like that anyway around that time from those who hop off the van wyck jfk bound when its jammed. Then the light at Union Tpke stays gren for main street for like 40 seconds. Ahh...traffic engineering
My trip back from work yestrday had #8137 on the B44 sliding all over the place and the engine kept gettinbg revved. The same thing with #9106 on the B36. Guess nobody had good luck. And this was at around 4pm.
Back in 1995, I was working the M-11 or M-10 (I forget the line). Anyway, I was stuck in the snow at Harrison and Hudson for about 10 hours or so.. LOL!
I'm sure you all know why buses slide in the snow upon accelleration. I was able to make 8 feet of diagonal travel in those 10 hours :-)
Okay I just checked.. it was the M-10, and it was in January, 1996. I had bus 8280.
10 hours?? I guess the engine ran out of gas eventually.
I guess TA policy is you have to stay with the bus no matter what.
They should've just let everybody out and take the subway.
it was feb 11,1982, a raging blizzard. i made the asinine mistake of trying to complete my trip on the b1. got stuck with a grumman right ih front of the oceana. it was 10:30 pm. spent the night with two other bus drivers. ta came at 10am the next morning after i told them if you dont come send an ambulance i cant take it anymore. they had the nerve to tell me if i dont come back at 4pm ill lose holiday pay. i said youre crazy. needless to say i received the holiday pay plus 22 hours for the overnighter.
That Blizzard was Feb 11th 1983,it was a Friday ;and it took me 4hrs (12-4pm)on the q44(a 5700 if I remember)and the q58(then b58 and a 300 series Grumman 870)from John Bowne(Reeves/Main)to Ridgewood(Fresh Pond/Metropolitan)
i remember that snowstorm. i was comnnig home from junior high school and caught a b3(a grumman-#200 or #400) and got home in not vbad time. the only bad thing was there was NO other buses going back towards mill basin when i got off at 23rd and U.Glad i made it home.
During that same blizzard, a MaBSTOA Grumman, # 137 I think, got stuck on the Q54 (B53) on Metro at 118 Street for a few days.
Rough. :-(
I'd rather be on the subways in the snow than buses, since buses are prone to getting stuck.
Has a blizzard ever shut down the subway system?
In 96 the blizzard shut most (if not all the el lines )down.
Back in 1977 (if I remember right) the entire system was shut down for 2-3 days. No buses, no subway, no cars for at least 2 days. I think we had over 2 feet of snow in less than 12 hours. I'll check on it and post what I find (if anything).
If you're talking abot what I think you are talking ,that storm was in Feb 78.The Bd of Ed.had to shut down the schools for week (last snow days used until the Jan 96 Storm(aside from Hurricane Gloria in 85)
Well there was no bus service. It was suspended for almost 2 days. The reason I was stranded so long was because I had to wait for a NYCTA tow truck to pull me out of the snow. Eventually the generator died, but fortunately there was a store nearby that I found comfort in. After the truck pulled the bus onto the avenue, the road truck pumped the air back up. I pulled in and they gave me the next day off with pay :-)
That wasn't the end of my day. I then had to make my way from Manhattanville depot to Bensonhurst Brooklyn. The only thing running at that time was the 1 from 125th I think.. so I made my way underground.. finally caught an N or R somewhere.... reached 4th Avenue and walked in the snow from 4th and 59th Street (nothing ran further) where I saw a lone cabby who charged me $30 to go to 18th Ave and 60th Street.
What a day!
Whew, sounds like a mess. I guess subways that are above ground can't run in heavy snow.
Well at least you were driving a bus in Manhattan. if you get stuck in Nassau with LI Bus that is real bad.
Imagine getting stranded in Roslyn or some desolate parts of the north shore. Yikes!!
Hopefully for the sake of the drivers LI Bus would suspend service before the storm hit.
Well since alot of buses go to Flushing that must've been a mess. A night in Flushing.... I shiver just thinking about it! After 10pm everything closes down. It didn't used to be that way though.
I took the 4:03pm N21 out of Flushing and was fortunate to have no problems (and a Series 50 bus). Betcha LI Buses slow Cummins did not fare well in the snow.
I heard on the scanner that Northern Blvd and PLandome road was impassible due to ice. Eastbound there is a hill right before Plandome road, and it's a steep one.
That must've really messed up N20/21 service real bad.
I had 8368 on the Q46-as usual was moving pretty well but the snow was just starting when I got on her. It was intensifying as I was waiting for the Q17. Got on 4346. Was doing ok until I reached Kissena Blvd. After Holly Ave, 4346 was slipping and sliding all over the place. Was gliding to the right each time that the driver was pulling out into traffic-(to the left). Hopped on #9557 on the 7 and went home but yesterday afternoon was a disaster just to be out.
Q46#8368Gary
Q17#4346Gary
i was thinking something was wrong with my spelling, wreaks means causes while reeks means smells of. anyway nyct told the si advance buses ran normally thursday while cancelling service on several routes and buses stuck all over. what liars.
I left York Avenue and 92nd Street at 4:10PM for a roundtrip to 54th Street and 11th Avenue. The entire roundtrip normally takes an hour and fifty minutes. I finally made it back to 92nd and York at 10:10PM. Six hours to do one roundtrip! That has to be a record. Traffic was at a complete standstill. 57th Street in spots was a complete sheet of ice. I didn't see one Sanitation truck during that entire six hour journey. It's comforting to know that NYC is so ready to handle inclement weather.
Yes, I was talking to a BO who I'm friendly with, and he told me it took him 6 hours to get from City Hall to 125th Street (M103). 3rd Avenue was a complete mess. I got on a 33rd Street and had to get off 40 minutes later at 38th Street.
He also said the pull-in line at Manhattanville was 7 blocks long!
Why did the driver stare at your feet?
Peace,
ANDEE
Because my boots were covered in snow!
Foot fetish?
-Hank :p
The Green Lines MCI Classic's are hard to find. Very Hard to find on weekends. Well today I was running for MCI classic 707 on Q10. But I miss that bus.Then I walk to Bakers Dozen on Lefferts Blvd.Ate breakfast then I went down to the Cuthbert RD bus stop on
Lefferts Blvd for the Q10 bus. Then MCI classic 705 came and the bus was very packed from the Rear to the Fount door way. I was shocked when I saw this. I let 705 go because was too many people on 705.
Then I wait 5 Minutes then 715 came and not too many people on that bus.So I went on 715 and I sat down and the Seats on 715 is Very soft.
So Just to yet everybody know that you can find MCI classic that Green lines owns on the Q10. Ok.
Dominick Bermudez.
If you can stake out a ride on the QM23 express route, you'll find either an MCI Classic or a single door Orion that was received from NYBS.
MCI buses on Green will be hard to find. THEY HAVE NO WHEELCHAIR ACCESS!! They probably operate during the week when accesibility is no needed on the route at that time. Since the buses are planning to be replaced(no wheelchair access)-get on them while the getting is goog.
"Since the buses are planning to be replaced (No wheelchair access)."
Oh relly. I did not hear anything about the Green Lines MCI Classic is going to be replace. I don't want the MCI Classic to go. I like them alot. I just might write a letter to Green Lines to tell then to keep the MCI Classic. I just don't want to see them gone for good.
Dominick Bermudez.
I don't think there are any buses on order for Green Line (although there should be). Last I heard, there was no break in the stalemate between NYCDOT wanting to buy only alternate fuel buses and Green Line not having CNG capability. As far as I know, the only hope for "new" Green Line buses would be for Queens Surface to receive more CNG buses, with the RTS's transferred to Green and the other Queens privates that need to replace old RTS's. My guess is that the Classics will stay with Green Line for awhile.
This Afternoon.
When I got out of C-Town I ran for the Q10 and It was MCI Classic #705 on Q10. Not very packed as I saw it this Morning on Q10.
Dominick Bermudez.
I was saying the same thing myself this morning as I was waiting for the Q60-I haven't rode an MCI Classic on a GBL Route in a while. I missed 5505 this morning and yet I didn't want to ride an Orion because usually I'm always on 1 Monday-Friday in the mornings to school. I had off from school this week so I was able to take the Q60 much later than usual. So today I had 271. Not too bad but Queens Blvd is such a drag-cops all over the place because of stupid jaywalkers-travelers on the Boulevard have to suffer.
Q60#271Gary
There is usually one Classic on the Q11 at about 12P at Jamaica/Woodhaven(so figure the 11:45a out off Queens Blvd.)Other than that the only real place to see Classics is Conn(actually Port Chester there is the CT transit bus to Greenwich & Stamford).
Besides Green, you can catch a MCI Classis at:
- QSC, 55 of them on various Express routes
- Command, 61
- Jamaica, 8
- Triboro, 31
- Liberty Lines (DOT service), 86
- NY Bus Service, 93
Good hunting
Mr t__:^)
Here's 701 for GBL:
And QS 919:
Enjoy!
QM18#701Gary
QM1A#919Gary
Unbroken Links-sorry bout that:
Here are they are again:
GBL 701:
QS 919:
Enjoy!
QM18#701Gary
QM1A#919Gary
Sometimes when I home in the Morning.
I allways see 701 On QM18 at 8:15AM. 702 is on QM23 at 7:30AM.
OK.
Dominick Bermudez.
MCI Classic#701
MCI Classic#702
There is only one QM23 that leaves Jamaica/102 at 7;45am and its usually Orion V 719(the former NYBS suburbans)
I was not talking about the Time it leaves Jamaica Ave And 102 St.
I was talking about the Time it leaves Woodhaven Blvd And Metropolitan Ave stop on QM23.
Dominick Bermudez.
It was probably the Q15,16 or 17,the 23 doesn't get there til 7:50 at least
It was probably the QM15,16 or 17,the 23 doesn't get there til 7:50 at least
I'd like to everyone's opinion on the following subject; am I the only one who finds chrome oil seal caps to look tacky in the center of Alcoa aluminum wheels? To those unfamiliar with this, I'm not referring to the actual rim itself, but the circular cap inside of the lug nuts. I mean, it just looks tacky!
Most newer buses look good with these weight-saving wheels, but they look best with black center hubs. It gives a nicer, heavy-duty look to the bus. I don't mind the chrome caps as much on the tandems, but on the front they just look awful, especially when they get dented up. Let me know your opinions on this matter; I'm interested to see what others think.
-F.
Chrome Wheels look sportly on City Buses. On highway buses.Makes it look like a HotRod.
Dominick Bermudez.
The wheels do look good on certain buses; however, I'm not talking about the whole wheel (rim) itself. I mean the chrome hub oil seal; the center cap of the wheel itself. It just doesn't set the wheel off very well.
Yes, I agree. I think the chrome center caps on the drive/tandem axle is a bit gaudy because of it's size/protrusion. I think the painted centers look very tasteful.
Wayne
OK- i got on RTS 4881, which is a suburban at Flatbush on local routes which seems to have been a reject by Ulmer Park, along with a few others like 3503, 3916, 3965, 3562, 4497, 4881-4889. Any of these ring a bell??? Anyway, 4881 had hanging on the celing next to the front door, "In an emergency ask the operator." And in brown with white lettering, "For your protection, this bus has a two-way radio." Is this going to be universal in the MTA buses or did I just find an oddball. It might've been on one of the walls by the front door but I remember seeing it and it was clearly visible.
The sticker that said "in an emergency, ask the operator" I have never seen before. Sounds like something that got pulled off a train car. The other sticker about the 2-way radio is old. We used to have several older RTS's (81-82's) that had those stickers on either the bottom of the fareboxes or underneath the front windshield near the fire extinguisher, but I haven't seen any of those stickers now in about 2 years. You won't be seeing that sticker much any more so I would say that now it is sort of an oddball.
BIG AL
Does CTA identify their various types of cars by a class-code or fleetname, or is it just "2600's, 4000's, 6000's", etc.
Are we talking buses or subways/els?
Subway, els. I should have posted it on Subtalk. (absent-minded, not feeling well today, sorry).
I rode that bus on the M103. It is a nice ride. It sounds and feels like an Orion VI hybrid, but with familiar high ride and comfort of an RTS. Though the battery packs on the roof are a little odd to me, the bus is O.K.! I have pictures of it on my website:
http://cleanairbus.tripod.com/thetransitpage
You can e-mail me on this if you want. Feel free to do so.
CWalNYC (8^)
P.S. Can I get a response A.S.A.P.? Maybe in a couple of minutes?
Thanx in advance!
cant connect to link
says the site doesnt exist
SORRY, GUYS!
GAVE YOU THE WRONG URL.
MY MISTAKE!
THIS IS THE CORRECT URL FOR MY SITE?:
http://cleanairbus.tripod.com
SORRY AGAIN!
SORRY
SORRY
SORRY
-CWalNYC (8^) (8^)
Dave,
Sorry about using your R143 picture as a link to this site without asking. I'll remove it as soon as I get a correspondence from you if you want it taken off.
Again, sorry
-CWalNYC (8^(
I get into the site, but for some reason, my computer seems to freeze once I get in. Can anybody post the picture here? Thanks in advance.
I really don't know how to post pictures here. Do I have to have internet access at home to do it or can I do it anywhere? How do I go about doing that? Is it easy or do I have to do a little more work?
-Feel free to let me know @:
carlwal@hotmail.com
Thanks to everyon who saw my site. Please invite others.
Many regards,
CWalNYC (8^)
carlwal@hotmail.com
Once again,
my home page is up and running, though still in construction.
The URL again, just in case you forgot, is:
http://cleanairbus.tripod.com
Sign the guestbook, guys, and contact me about it!
Dave, Bob D., "ABErm", and all the rest of ya, this means you!
Thanks,
CWalNYC a.k.a. "Cleanairbus" (8^)
That's a nice photo of that bus.
I saw 6360 in the Bronx. When it was comming back from Nova Bus last month.
Dominick Bermudez.
Nova RTS#6360.
Dominick,
can we chat about your sighting of #6360 in the Bronx alittle more? Very intriguing sighting. Let me know a little more. If you don't mind. My e-mail address is carlwal@hotmail.com.
CWalNYC
(8^)
I rode that RTS hybrid bus on the M103 northbound from City Hall to 42nd Street/3 Avenue. It is a nice ride. It sounds and feels like an Orion VI hybrid, but with familiar high ride and comfort of an RTS. Though the battery packs on the roof are a little odd to me, the bus is O.K.! I have pictures of it on my website:
http://cleanairbus.tripod.com/thetransitpage
You can e-mail me on this if you want. Feel free to do so.
CWalNYC (8^)
P.S. Can I get a response A.S.A.P.? Maybe in a couple of minutes?
Thanx in advance!
Can't see the pic Wally. May be the link to the pic? Please try again.
M103#6360Gary
does new york still have a salary tier system--is this working ok
Metrocard collectors:
For a week about a couple of weeks, there has been a Metrocard limited to only one MVM. The MVM is located at the New York City Visitor Center at 7th Ave. and 53rd St. (Manhattan).
Yes, there is an MVM at a non-NYCTA location. I bought a $3.00 card and got one yesterday, had to because the trade-in feature was removed. They still may have some left so hurry. The MVM in in the back of the Vistors Center.
"Paint The Town Red" is a NYC winter celebration geared for winter tourism during NYC's slow season.
Subway Buff didn't report this as with other new released Metrocards because no booths or other MVM's have them. Call (212)484-1222 for hours or visit them on the web at nycvisit.com.
HURRY WHILE SUPPLIES LAST !!!
Bill "Newkirk"
P.S. - The Metrocard Show is this Saturday, March 3rd at 283 Lexington Ave bet. 36th and 37th Sts.
Yesterday, while in Nassau County, I thought I saw Orion CNG Bus #358. When I thought about it after returning to NJ, I remembered that the newest order of buses for LI Bus began at #288 and went only as high as around #345 (I believe there were 58 buses in the order). I could not find any up-to-date LI Bus roster around. Does anyone know whether a number as high as 358 exists on LI Bus?
(I can't remember exactly where I saw it, but it would have been in Lynbrook or Valley Stream on the N3, N4, N25 or N31.)
The highest # of the 2000 Orions V's purchased by LIBus is 350 which is usually operating on the N20/21.
The highest number I thought was 356. I've seen 355 a few times, twice recently on the N79.
Mainly I see #314 and #317 on sundays on N25. When I went to Roosvelt Feld Mall on 12/17/2000 to do a little shopping. I got #324 on N25 then #615 on N24.Then I went shopping in Roosvelt Feld Mall.To end the day with #327 on N24 to go to 179 ST to take the F Train home.
So far I only went on 2 2000 Orion5's so far. I preetly munch like that bus.
Dominick Bermudez.
Orion5 #314
Orion5 #317
Orion5 #324
Orion5 #327
Orion5 #615
Yeah well as a LI Bus rider the 2000 Orions are so much better than the older Cummins powered Orions.
I've seen several buses in the 350's also at the 165th st. terminal in Jamaica. 358 could be the highest number. I've never seen 360 or higher.
BIG AL
359 is and will be the highest number that will be on the road for LI Bus.
N20#359Gary
STORY from CBS
Peace,
ANDEE
There's also a NY Times article today that states that they "... surrended it's operating license Feb 8th ..."
Apparently Coach USA/Greyline has acquired some of the British Leyland dbl deckers, a visitor center on 8th Ave at 48th St, and some of the staff. The new company is to be called City Sightseeing.
Mr t__:^)
I saw the new license plates on buses 5512 and 5514 this morning. 5512 was on the Q60 and 5514 was on the Q11. Looks like GBL is the 1st to get them. IDK about the other privates.
Q11#5514Gary
Q60#5512Gary
5505 and 5538(?) have them too. I haven't seen them on the RTS's though, or on the other privates.
I would assume that all buses will get them when the registrations expire just like all autos in New York State. It is supposed ot be a two year phase-in since NY Registrations run for two years.
A couple of days ago, I saw a Triboro 2800 bus with the new NY plates. Isn't it strange that they all start with a K and have the title "official" instead of "bus?"
Saw 2827 on the Q23 yesterday with the new plates. Any QS buses receive them yet? Also how would the public know officially if the DOT is on strike or not? I usually rely on the Q60 to the Q46 to get to school-will I have to rely on the E and F trains tomorrow or will the Q60 be in service? From the looks of it-looks bad.
Q23#2827Gary
Q60#647Gary
Last night I saw buses 257 and 270 on the Q60 supporting the new license plates.
Q11#270Gary
Q60#257Gary
Haven't seen any new plates on the GBL RTS's huh?
Well, I'll be the first to mention I saw GBL RTS #608 with the new plates today going along Merrick blvd.
BIG AL
Add 291 to that list. Saw her on the Q10 this morning with it.
Q10#291Gary
If the B/O and mechanics at Bee Line/Liberty Lines go out on strike it looks like a bunch of folks (mostly Bee Line riders) will be stranded. I cannot remember them ever going on strike. I do remember a Metro North strike years ago and Bee Line pitched in big time. I remember seeing lots of their MAN Artics rolling along 5th Avenue in Manhattan.
Wayne
Wayne - I even remember their Buffalos signed up for "Westchester" as their destination signs didn't allow for names like White Plains or Tarrytown.
Unfortunately, the dynamics are now different. Bus routes are flexible. But train routing is not. A strike is going to hurt lots of people who have no alternatives.
You're so right. Other than extra trains their won't be much in the way of alternatives.
Wayne
You're so right. Other than extra trains there won't be much in the way of alternatives.
Wayne
The car-less working poor will suffer the most.
These people suffer the most when there is a bus strike.
Other agencies should help these people out if there is a strike.
Oh yeah, I forgot I'm dreaming again, most people only care about themselves. :-(
Remember that Liberty Lines also serves Manhattan under service authorized by nycDOT and the other "privates" have authorized a strike too. I understand that the parties are still talking, that's good news for the travling public.
Disclaimer: I'm NOT a official spokesperson for the MTA, nycDOT or my employeer.
Mr t__:^)
Which facilities will be affected?
And, let's not forget these same Bee Line riders who travel cross county (ie. Yonkers to White Plains or New Rochelle; Tarrytown to Port Chester; Peekskill to White Plains, etc.) will be adversely affected more than those from, say, The Bronx to Westchester. Unless people are willing to take Metro North to 125 St then transfer to another line to get cross county, I don't see too many alternatives.
Speaking of contracts, SEPTA's contract with TWU operators in the City Transit Division expires in a little more than two weeks.
Didn't SEPTA just have a strike within the past year or so? I hope that doesn't mean they go on another one.
Yup. It was a 40 day strike in 1998.
40 DAYS!! Wow!! Why that long?
Dominick Bermudez.
40 days is nothing when it comes to SEPTA strikes. I think that SEPTA was out for 2 1/2 monthe during the early '70s. I was still in elementary school back then. Had to walk 10 blocks because of the strike. Not a Route 13 trolley in sight. Such fond memories.
It's a stupid union that keeps the members out for more then a few days. A smart leader goes out for one or two issues that are reasonabally obtainable. Otherwise there's no benifit in the strike, i.e. the members loose big time, maybe their jobs. The members shouldn't let the leadership hold out for something the "international" wants, but they don't care about THAT much.
A company doesn't let a strike happen unless they have a plan to survive the strike. If they are a public/government operation they go to the politations before letting the strike happen, i.e. the union is being unreasonable so the politations tell they can't strike, e.g. the Rudy mentality, or you want to bust the union, e.g. the Regan mentality. If they are making reasonable demands, get the money somehow, because the politations want to be re-elected.
Another key factor is talk ... if the two parties can't talk to each other, the members are dead meat.
Mr t__:^)
Liberty Lines has two operating arms, both of which are poised to walk out.
I don't know about LL Transit's financial arrangement with Westchester County.
However, LL Express has a cost-plus contract with NYCDOT; its profit margins are contractually guaranteed, so the more it spends, the more it makes. Thus, it should WANT to pay its drivers as much as possible, in order to maximize its profits.
BUT the City got smarter last time & found a way to make the owners pay more of the freight, that was good for Rudy's budget.
Mr t__:^)
i was just wondering if anybody has a list of all the bus destinations? this way, i can truly simulate the powers of BUS SIGN 1.0
thanx!
--jonathan
What does Bus Sign 1.0 actually do?
Good afternoon
Can anyone confirm the correct routings of the 20 and 21 in Queens---Flushing Inclusive
I know there have been numerous routing changes for the NYCT Routes in the downtown area
Thanks
Steve
It is my understanding the buses use Northern ,Sandford Av,Kissena Blvd,Main St,Roosevelt,,returning via Roosevelt,Bowne St
You are correct,LIBus never changed their routes(same with QS)within the vicinity of downtown Flushing.The NYCTA was the only ones to do so.
N20/21
Westbound: Northern Blvd then left onto Sanford, right on Kissena, onto Main street, last stop Main+Roosevelt.
Eastbound: Pickup:Roosevelt ave+Union street. Roosevelt ave east, right on Parsons, left on Sanford, then Northern.
One mistake
Eastbound N20/21 makes right on BOWNE then left on Sanford.
I take the route so many times I should know, well actually not lately I'm staying away from Flushing because it's a dump and relatively unsafe.
[I'm staying away from Flushing because it's a dump and relatively unsafe. ]
What's that much unsafe about Flushing? I've been taking the LIRR from Manhasset there few times lately. I like 7 train, and living on the East Side I save some time. It stinks and there's nothing to do there, but unsafe?
Arti
Well obviously some highly educated researchers for Wendy's have decided to stay away from Flushing awhile. Also I know quite a few people who have been robbed in Flushing. This one guy's wife whom I know from my local pharmacy has been robbed in Flushing TWICE.
I'm not saying it's the most dangerous area in the city, but it leans more toward unsafe than safe.
I do like the 7 train though. So I usually get right off the train and get the first N20/21 out of there, or vice versa but there is nothing worth hanging around there for, that's for sure.
I'm not surprised to see a Trailways bus winding around downtown Massapequa, Long Island, as a travel agent handles tickets there. However, could anyone explain to me the number 72927 that I saw on a Pine Hill Trailways Provost yesterday? Are different series of numbers assigned to the different Trailways companies? Does the five-digit number convey any more meaning than just the number of that vehicle? Thanks. Joe McMahon
Sorry, I haven't tried to figure out the Trailways numbering system. But the buses I see on Route 17 in New Jersey on Pine Hill and Adirondack Trailways routes seem to all have 5 digits.
As an aside, one of those Trailways Companies recently received some Prevost LeMirage XLII SERIES buses, which are updated versions of the old LeMirage series that now look something more like the Prevost H-Series buses. Upon seeing the LeMirage XLII Series buses a few times, I've concluded they are pretty nice looking.
I just happened to see Pine Hill Trailways bus #72925 this afternoon. It was a new Prevost LeMirage XLII SERIES bus, so I assume 72927 is the same.
Most trailways buses I've seen are 5-digit numbers. And this one in particular is a palindrome. But otherwise, I know nothing.
The first two digits of a 5- or 6-digit Trailways number represent the operating company, the three or four remaining numbers are the specific fleet numbers of the company itself. Example - 10116 represented Trailways Lines ("10") and fleet number ("116").
Yep, you read that correctly. In the Sunday edition of the Houston Chronicle, the lead story was about the 15+ Metro bus drivers that make more the 80,000 dollars a year and the other 300 plus that top 50,000. The guy at the top of the mountain was William Pierson making 110,000 dollars last year followed closely by Carl Clay at 109,000 dollars. That's pretty good for a TA with a top pay of 15.75. Of courst these guys woreked HELLA overtime. Pierson spends 18 hours a day on average behind the wheel. Since Metro is exempt from the restricitons put on other commercial drivers, this is legal. His wife told him to choose between his overtime or her. The divorce is final.
BTW, I read that Beeline drivers get paid 20.00 a year after three years and taht is LESS than NYCTA. Can someone clear this up? That's a lot of money by Houston standards.
Holy crap! Either the guy has a pain in the ass for a wife, or he really loves driving buses. 18 hours straight...that's amazing!
That man has made his proctologist a small fortune...
-Hank :)
Quite clever, Hank...I found it a funny come....uh, back. I hope I haven't made an ass....inine statement. For once, I'm proud to be the, uh, butt....of someone's jokes. LOL! :)
Your friend to the, uh...end,
-F.
I know that SEPTA operateors make up to 19.50 after an extended period of dedication by the driver. Why do TA's do this?
Unions. I would love to work for a union.
Only problem I see with this is if there is an accident where someone is seriously injured or killed after a driver has been 18 hours behind the wheel and he was clearly at fault, lawyers will eat him, the Union and the TA alive.
That was mentioned in the article as well. There are drivers with more hours than him. One driver did 21 hours 18 min. straight.
I'm getting this impression that this practice could be coming to an end soon. A tired driver is just as bad as a drunk driver. All that money is nice, but I don't know if its worth it.
I doubt it. Metro doesn't have enough drivers and they say it's cheaper to pay all of that overtime than it is to hire 200 new drivers. The overtime at Metro is unlimited so there are no mandates on what you can do. Until Metro loses its exemption, I don't see an end anytime soon.
Hi, ther. Does anyone have any info about the weekend operation of the shuttle as to which depot(s), how many runs, where in Brooklyn it leaves from (Bridge Plaza or B'way-Havemeyer to Marcy Aves.)etc.
Also ,,the routing is requested
It is going to be a short version of the B39 (they did during the Williamsburg Bridge construction 2 yrs ago)with the buses terminating at Delancey/Essex instead of Delancey/Allen(which is about 2 or 3 short blocks difference).
Thanks; Do you happen to know if the Bklyn end is Bridge Plaza or B'way/ Marcy?
It should be the Bridge Plaza. It is only a short block to the Marcy Ave station.
B46#5117MikeLTD
I believe that Transit might want to avoid customer accidents in crossing Havemeyer St. and thus load/unload along Broadway instead.
When I was comming back from New Rochelle this afternoon.
When I was looking out the window from my school bus by time it came to the Whitestone Bridge. I saw Not 1. But 2 Low floor Neoplans on the CASH lane. The numbers of these buses are #94007 and #94005.
These buses belong to Delta Airlines and the model of these buses are AN440TLF. I never saw a Low Floor Neoplan before. But just one question. Why the AN440TLF's that Delta owns don't have Headsigns on the top front part of the bus? Any reason?
Dominick Bermudez.
Neoplan AN440TLF#94005
Neoplan AN440TLF#94007
These buses probably don't run a specific "route" like a transit agency's bus does. Its probably either an employee shuttle or a shuttle from the plane to the terminal, so a headsign may not be needed.
The model of Neoplan Low Floor is a different version from the one used for transit systems. What you saw today was a full low floor bus with no steps, and are apparently used only by airlines (I believe United has a few of these AN-440TLF buses). Most Neoplan low floors (such as the ones recently acquired by Pittsburgh) are AN-440LF.
The AN440TLF and AN445TLF (True Low Floor) are offered with two front ends. A "transit" front end, similar to the normal Transliner series, and a "shuttle" front end, very similar to the Jetliber intercity coach.
http://www.neoplanusa.com/products/AN440TLF.html
This page has two (tiny) pics of the TLF's two front ends - the "shuttle" version is the United Airlines coach.
Bus Workers Gearing Up For a Walkout
By PETE DONOHUE
Daily News Staff Writer
"Workers at several private bus companies serving the city and Westchester County have taken strike-authorization votes, and the first walkout could take place as early as this week, a union lawyer said yesterday."
http://www.nydailynews.com/2001-02-27/News_and_Views/City_Beat/a-101282.asp