Hoping everybody on bustalk and subtalk have a wonderful New Year.
BIG AL
A big AMEN to on that thought to our "Rev. Al" from Hart Bus and family. Maybe we'll meet up in 2001 at the Slope-back RTS at Belmont Racetrack.
Here is the info on this bus that I promised. This bus will be repainted as PE#2700 Is there any other 4510's still around?
Served in PE red/silver thru turnover to Metro Coach, repainted 2 tone green as 6700
Transferred to LAMTA in 1958 with the merger (served in both 2 tone green schemes as 6700)
Renumbered 6808 circa 1962 shortly before retirement.
Sold to San Pedro Lines as # 36
Reaquired along with 2875 by SCRTD in 1972 when RTD took over SPTL
Renumbered 6500
Assigned to Div.3. operated as *casper*
Repainted 1975 to the SCRTD *burglar* scheme
Taken out of service as SCRTD's last old look in service in a ceramony at Div. 1 featuring LA mayor Tom Bradley and other dignitarys.
I dont have any pictures of what the Pacific Electric paint scheme even looked like. If anyone wants to help me out, I will be glad to trade any pics I have.
As I mentioned, I DO have a shot of a 4801 in the Pacific Electric color scheme. There's only one window difference, just ahead of the rear doors, on the 4510. As soon as I find that PE photo I will scan it and send it along.
Happy New Year to everyone from the staff at Regional Transit Service
http://www.geocities.com/regtransit/
Happy & Healthy New Year to ALL
On Saturday nite's episode of "That's Life", a CBS show about a 30 year old girl trying to start a new life by going to college there was a whopper of a bus error.
At one point Lydia De Luca the protaganist played by Paige Heather Kent, is walking down a street in her home town in what is supposed to be North Jersey. She comes upon a group of elderly people and they tell her that they are waiting for the bus to Atlantic City.
The bus pulls up but does not come up to the curb. Lydia climbs up to the first step and tells the driver that he "damn well better" pull up to the curb. The driver says why "have you ever worked for this company ?". She replies that "Yes I did. About 2 years ago, for nine months". She threatens to call Tommy Sullivan if he does pull in. He says "alright, I'll go around the block". This was a scene to show that Lydia is starting to stand up for herself.
Error # 1 - Are there still any Fishbowls in revenue service in North Jersey today ?
Error # 2 - Why would a transit bus (rear door clearly visible) be used on a run from North Jersey to A.C. ? Wouldn't a suburban or parlor bus be used on that distance?
Error # 3 - By going around the block isn't the driver delaying the run as well as going off route for no reason ?
Error # 4 (THE BEST ONE). The bus is in the NYCTA colors of white with a blue stripe. Totally inside the blue stripe are the words NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT AUTHORITY and right beneath in (still in the stripe) 3410 in a font that isn't used. Why would a NYC bus be doing a line run in NJ? The driver had a brown uniform on, not a blue one!
HAPPY NEW YEAR from Hart Bus and Family
1. None. At least none that I know of.
2. It wouldn't. NJ Transit operates commuter service to Atlantic City from Newark Penn Station, Journal Square, and the Port Authority ONLY, on the #319. This bus does not pick up or discharge on local streets. And they only use their MCI cruisers on that route (I guess they would use a Flxible suburban if a wheelchair passenger made a reservation).
There are several bus companies that operate a sort of charter service from various parts of North Jersey to specific AC casinos, such as Leisure Line, Saddle River Coach, etc. And they only use coach buses. Leisure Line uses MCI's and Neoplans.
3. Common sense says "Yes"
4. Unfortunately, this goes beyond the realm of explanation . . .
Also, if my eyes didn't decive me, the space wasn't even big enough for a bus that size to get up to the curb. So the driver was doing the right thing in that case.
I dont think 99.99999999999% of the people watching that show would give a hoot where the bus came from or know that AC is in south jersey or that fishbowls are non-existent in most places.
PS. The story line was great. Did you understand the story?
Mike M.
Sorry, posted under wrong person. Should have been under orginal posting.
The only one that has any weight is #4. The rest aren't really important to the plot of the show. Only people who spend their time looking for dramatic factual errors with transit equipment 90% of the country has never seen would care about any of them.
#4 is explained easily. Just as New Yorker magazine portrayed the view of New Yorkers, Hollyweird sees things the same way. AFATC, the entire state of New Jersey is one of the five boros.
-Hank
Explanation for all 4 errors: IT'S ALL FICTION.
BIG AL
I read on TT bus roster that Maspeth is supposed to open in 2001.
Comments and Questions:
1. It seems that the B43, B48, and B61 are making moves once again. Then again, most of those routes are former Crosstown depot routes.
2. Why the B15 and not the Q58 is assgned to the depot?
3. Is this a diesel/RTS depot?
4. How will TA assign buses over there?
5. How can I get there to take a look at things?
6. Is there a contest for a depot logo?
BM34x
Happy New Year to all!!
The B15 begins it run at Flushing Ave/Bdwy by Woodhull Hospital,and the Q58 geograpically speaking should be x-fered to the Maspeth Depot.Plus one other question how many buses is JG(43&61) and FP(all the rest except the 15) are going to be removed from each depot?ENY shouldn't lose too many (if none at all)cause of losing only the 15.
If thats the case the B60 and Q54 in my opinion are good canidates for Maspeth Depot as well. We will see what happens down the road.
B60#5000Mike
Q54#4212Mike
I think the Q58 belongs at FP. The starting point in Ridgewood is closer to FP and relieving drivers in front of the garage is one of the few perks of the Q58.
It also has good on time performance. That's why you need at least 15 yrs seniority to pick it. That's on the p.m. 20 yrs on the a.m.
I'm sure most of the answers to your questions are still being though about by the TA suits.......The Q59 passes right in front of the place.
Transit Talk is incorrect. Maspeth is not to a depot but a new central maintance facility to serve Brooklyn and Staten Island buses only.
When CMF leaves East New York for the Bronx the capacity for East New York Depot will be doubled. You do not need a new depot in norhtwest Brooklyn/southwest Queens unless the TA takes over the private lines.
Thank You
If that is the case,then ENY will be more than adiquate for Orions or New Flyers(artrics that is)
Just to let you know that in 2003 according to current DOB plans Flatbush Depot is to be converted to an all articulated depot. This I know as a fact.
Speculation is that the B-41 Flatbush Ave,B-44 Nostrand Ave and B-46 Utica Avenue routes will be converted to articulated buses only. It makes sense as they are the 3 heaviest routes in the Brooklyn Division. It Flatbush is big enough to hold 4 routes with articulated service which will be the 4th route. The B-6 Bay Parkway/Avenue J,TheB-49 Ocean Avenue or the B-82 Kings Highway/Flatlands Avenue come to mind.
I believe that once Flatbush is converted then the B-2 and B-31 will go to Ulmer Park and the B-49 if not converted to articulated buses will go to East New York.
THIS IS SPECULATION ON MY PART.
THANK YOU
I hope this is true!!! I hope it will finally happen...
I hope this is true!!! I hope it will finally happen...
B46M Limited
august 1979 nycta plans to buy articulated buses for flatbush av ci ave etc. well see what happens.
Before you read any further, please do not think that the title of my post reflects my opinion; I think that GM New Looks are far and away the most beautiful buses ever made.
However, several transportation historians have told me that the design of GM buses in the 1950's and 1960's was part of GM's grand (and successful) scheme to kill transit in the US. Of course, these people did not cite "GM model TDH 5301" as the bus to do this, but I combined their knowledge with mine to decipher the truth: the New Look was designed specifically to be ugly.
During the late 1950's, GM had upwards of a 90 percent market share for new transit vehicles, and of course in this era, the term 'new transit vehicle' meant the same thing as 'motor bus.' By this time, National City Lines had already been largely effective in murdering thousands of streetcars and replacing them with GM buses. NCL also set this as the precedent for other transit systems.
In just one short decade, General Motors changed the way Americans traveled. By the mid 50's, it was becoming painfully clear that transit was on a rapid downward spiral, and what little future transit had lied in the form of diesel buses.
With more streetcar lines being abandoned each day, GM realized that its buses would indeed sell in large numbers. GM was not about to quit; they wanted to put the nail in transit's coffin. The challenge was now to create a bus unattractive enough to drive even more patrons away from transit; thus was born the GM New Look.
I believe every word of this story. General Motors is an evil and heartless corporation.
When you really think about it, the styling of the New Look is pretty ridiculous. It would certainly not be easy to come up with those kinds of characteristics without the goal of creating an unsightly vehicle.
Nonetheless, GM could have never imagined that those slanted windows, hundreds of exposed rivets, and fishbowl windshields would go on to become the trademark features of one of the best transit vehicles ever produced.
I think the New Look is gorgeous, and I was just developing my interest in transit when the New Look was becoming seriously endangered. Today, I am very saddened when I hear that transit systems still operating these venerable buses are retiring them. When WMATA got rid of its last New Looks in August 2000, I shed a tear. The first ride I ever took on a transit bus was on a CTA New Look in 1993. Then, there were hundreds of them in service in Chicago. Today, there are none. Now, I alter my travel and vacation plans so as to go to places where New Looks still operate. To that end, I am thankful to live so close to Canada, where almost all transit systems operate New Looks to this day.
As a transit buff, I consider the GM New Look bus and the PCC streetcar to be equivalent vehicles in their respective modes. Both the New Look and the PCC are solid, attractive, durable, and long-lasting, not to mention they both set the standard for their competition. These vehicles were way ahead of their times. It is wonderful that the number of PCC's in active service in on the rise. Unfortunately, New Looks don't get this kind of love or recognition.
GM New Looks were and are the most widely liked buses among drivers, mechanics, most enthusiasts, and even some average passengers.
May GM New Looks operate in revenue service until buses are replaced with streetcars!
Neil
.
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P.S.- This tale makes me question what GM's intention was with the New Look's successor, the RTS. In addition to the RTS being one of the most attractive transit buses ever produced, it appears that it was actually designed to be that way.
As a bus fan who pratically grew up riding on GM NewLooks(the 5301 series right up to last New Look the 5307 or 08 made by GM-Canada),the GM New Look was bulit to last as it has shown with every transit system that has ever brought it.As for its predecessor the RTS in the states,it was an ok bus.However the real predecessor to the New Look was the Classic made by GM-Canada/MCI/NovaBus.Also I prefer the quote/unquote rolling shoeboxes in NYC called the Orion,New Flyer(and Grumman/Flexible when we had them).
>>>the GM New Look was bulit to last as it has shown with every transit system that has ever brought it.As for its predecessor the RTS in the states,it was an ok bus<<<
The average life of an RTS and a New Look are almost the same. The only thing hindering the RTS are emission controls, something that wasn't such a large problem back then. Also, there are WAY more bus manufactuers now than there were in the New Look heydey. technically speaking, the RTS has overcome more obsticals than the New Look because of the different time periods. I really hope you're speaking from a bus-fans point of view when you say the RTS is an okay bus, because logically that statement makes absolutely no sense. And yes, the RTS was the replacement of the New Look. Calling the MCI classics the replacements is a stain on the legacy on such a great bus as the New Looks.
Now, let me speak honestly for a moment. I think the New Look is a boring bus. I heard the engine one and it sounded like a truck from the 70s. It had NO personality whatsoever. The only reason I like the NLs at all is beacause they are old. That's it. But, that's really the same reason you all like it so much. When there were thousands roaming the streets, I'm sure drivers were complaining about them and people were calling them "okay" buses, longing for the days of the Old Look and wanting something new to come along in the meantime. Now, the days of the NLs are over and you want them back. This is what will eventually happen to the RTS and what is already happening to the Flxible. I can't see anyone wanting to remember the good old days of the Orion or Gillig.
The GM new looks were clearly workhorses and IMHO they're easily the best looking (and sound) next to the Grumman 870/Flxible Metro. In 80's the New Looks were clearly showing their age. From B/O's I've only heard kind words about the GM New Looks.
I found it interesting when you expressed your opinion of the New Looks, as that's always pretty much been my feeling about the RTS. I grew up riding NYCTA's new look GM's (and Flxibles) and the bad part is that we had all of these great buses, but it seems like the TA had the cycle going where they just: sent the buses out, vacuumed the fareboxes when they returned to the depot, refueled them, maybe a wash and sent the out again. I deliberately left out maintenance because they clearly didn't do much of that and the buses showed it. Then of course sometime in the mid 1980's the TA woke up and started taking care of their buses.
I never wanted to see the new look go away - but they did and I missed them. Then when I moved to the DC area 4 years ago I was lucky enough to enjoy the GM new looks (as well as Flxible new looks) until the Summer of '00 and again I was sad to see them go. The RTS however is a bus that I'm pretty certain that I'll miss very little. I definitely won't miss the Gillig, but the Orion. Well maybe just a little.
I'm already dreading the day the the Flxible Metro goes away.
It's too bad because I really gotten bored with todays Transit buses. I think the intercity coaches are much more interesting than the transit scene.
Wayne
>>>The GM new looks were clearly workhorses and IMHO they're easily the best looking (and sound) next to the Grumman 870/Flxible Metro.<<<
I agree with you on the Grummans and the first Metro A's, but after awhile they lost their unique sound. The newer 90's Flxibles all sound horrible. Especially the WMATA and NJT ones. As for the NL, I've never ridden one, but from what I've listened to, they're nothing special. Also, NL aren't invincible, ask some veterans at Metro-Houston that. The New Looks were run down here by the time they were 15. They were retired at around 30, but only because they had been extensively rehabbed and Metro didn't have enough buses during most of the 80s.
>>>I found it interesting when you expressed your opinion of the New Looks, as that's always pretty much been my feeling about the RTS.<<<
I really don't understand how you can feel the RTS is uninteresting. It's the most unique transit bus on the market right now. And with most of the good sounding Grummans and Flx Metros gone, they're really the only thing worth listening to besides D40LFs. I don't see how you can like those horrible sounding WMATA Metro Ds and not like an RTS. The last Flxible sound like someone put a diesel school bus engine inside of them, that's horrible.
>>>The RTS however is a bus that I'm pretty certain that I'll miss very little.<<<
I'm sure that's what thousands of like minded busfans said abut the New Look, and we know how that went.
>>>I'm already dreading the day the the Flxible Metro goes away.<<<
Too late. Most of the good one have gone.
>>>It's too bad because I really gotten bored with todays Transit buses. I think the intercity coaches are much more interesting than the transit scene.<<<
I find that surprising since the MCI D4000/4500 is ugly, the E-Series looks like a dressed up RTS, and the G series is really just an update of the E-Series. Prevost's H-345's are reminiscent of the Flxible except taller and the windshield doesn't slant inwards. And don't say he transit scene was much more intresting in the 70s when you only had your choice of the GM New Look and the horrendous Flxible New Look knock off.
As far as the NYCTA fleet is concerned I have to admit they were sort of boring because they were pretty slow and again - they did get good maintenance at all. Other new looks like the suburbans at Liberty Lines, and transits in Westchester county had 8-cylinder engines and they could haul pretty well. Also NJ Transit (then TNJ Transport of New Jersey) had a bunch of new looks in many flavors. They were lots of fun to ride. IMHO there has never been a slow NJ Transit bus especially in those days. Most of TNJ buses had the DD 6V-71N engine, but the most of the suburbans had manual transmissions and they were champs. The New Looks that I give top honors to are those from GMDD with the 8V-71N engines. At one point all of the NYC-DOT privates except Command and Libery Lines had them and NYBS still has theirs even though despite the fact that they're in excellent condition we all know their days are numbered.
I know many people that like the RTS, but it's just never been a favorite of mine. When the NYCTA started buying the 04 series in 1981 I really didn't like them (and the 1983 buses) especially since they were really underpowered with the DD 6V-71N engine. The did learn to tolerate the RTS and started like the few 1981 buses 1288-1317 and 2281-2300 because they had DD 6V-92TA engines and I really like their sound and good acceleration. After 1984 when all of NYCTA RTS had DD 6V-92TA engines again I was liking them, but not much. In 1994 when the TMC's with the DD Series 50 came along I had to adjust to what I though was a horrible sounding engine. I think my biggest problem with the RTS was that the NYCTA was dangerously close to having 100% RTS fleet and I was just tired of riding them. I was never an Orion fan, but when the 1993 Orion V started arriving at the NYCTA I was happy to see something different in the fleet.
Flxibles:
I agree that the Flxible Metro D's (Cummins C8.3) do not sound good at all. I really don't like the sound of the Cummins L-10 either. And the WMATA's RTS with their DD 6V-92TA engines did sound pretty good. I've gotten used to the DD series 50 in the Metro E, plus there pretty fast.
Intercity:
I do like the MCI D4000/4500 series. I'm somewhat indifferent to the G series. The like the Prevost H3-41/45 also, but I really miss Eagle.
Yes, in the 1970's we really only had GM and Flxible new looks. In terms of being diverse the 1970's bus scene was lacking but - I did find it interesting because there were many different flavors of these buses. Today there's clearly more diversity, but I find the pickings to be less than exciting.
Wayne
The Metro E's are really DD50 engines? Tehy sound completely different from the NABIs and Neo articulateds on SEPTA's fleet. Maybe it's the transmission that differentiates from the SEPTA buses.
You're right there about the transmissions changing the sound of the engines. SEPTA's RTS's, The Neoplan AN435 and both Neoplan AN440 (8000's and 3000's) shared the same engine; The DD 6V92TA. The difference in the sounds are that The RTS had an Allison V-drive transmission (which makes it sound more like the older NJ Transit Flxible Metros), the 8000 Neoplans and The AN435 have an Allison T-drive (which makes it sound more like The Greyhound and NJ Transit MCI MC9's), and the 3000 Neoplans have the ZF T-drive. Although I do not know the model number of the transmissions, I hope that clarifies it. BTW, I often wondered what the 8V92TA sounded like.
There were plenty of transit and suburban buses with DD 8V-71N engines but, I've never heard a DD 8V-92TA in anything other than an intercity (over the road) coach. I like the sound, but I do think the 8V-71N sounded better.
Wayne
You know, everyone bashes the Gillig Phantoms and Orion constantly. Well, I never really had a bad ride on either of them. I understand that I haven't driven any of them at all so I probably don't know what it's like (I plan to drive a Neoplan bus on SEPTA's fleet when I am old enough), but I rode the Phantoms and Orion Is on Ride-On, and the Orion V's on WMATA, and they all seemed nice to me, excepting maybe the engine of the 1997 or 1995 35ft phantoms where the engine reminds me of the 1990 Flxible Metro B's. In fact, when I was little, I thoguht Gillig Phantoms and Flxibles were the same bus, and that Ride-On "copied" the style of teh metro bus (I also thought that TAs made their own buses), since they both had the slanted windows. I don't remember much about the New Looks, but I remember the red seats and the back of the bus behind the door seemed dark and scary. Today, the interiors of the buses are bright, and I feel much more comfortable in these than when I would have ridden one of the old and new looks. Also, one of the reasons that I would actually miss the RTS is because I used to ride it all the time and also it had an interesting engine that sorta sounded similiar to the Flxible Metro A's but not. Also, in the post about how the later engines of the Metros sound awful, I agree with him. Even a good distance away you can hear this loud rumble of the engine of the bus as it comes upt he street! My favorite one is the later Metro B's, even though it really trembled a lot when it stood in place. Also, about the sound of the New Look engine, I never liked it when I was younger because I could never mimic it (I used to mimic sounds of engines so that if I had toys that resembled them or made a bus out of legos I could use them). Recently, I can, but I think it sounds close to the engine of a Metro A. I'd certainly miss the Orion Is of Ride-On because when I was little and they were showing them at the Wheaton Mall when they were brand new I was able to sit in the driver's seat (I even got a picture). Also, I loved the sound of the engine more than any other, and I think I have heard someone say that the sound of the engine was really bad, but I think it's the best out of all, except for the 3000 series Neoplans with the ZF transmission on SEPTA's fleet. Seriously though, the way everyone feels about the "glorious" RTS bus and the way they feel about the GM New Looks (not the Flxible "Knock offs", although I don't even know if I even rode or even seen a GM New Look because I thought those buses looked the same except when one day when I was at Silver Spring Station at the terminal I saw it-I think the Flxibles were more plentiful on the fleet), I probably feel about the Neoplans. So, I guess all of this liking of buses basically comes down to attachments. Personally, I would be saddened if all the Neo's on the SEPTA fleet were replaced by anything, but with New Flyers and other stuff coming in, will I be able to drive a Neoplan? Also, they can't be that hard to drive if two teenagers could drive one. Also, sometimes you guys have to understand that it is out with the old and in with the new, and to be a good transit agency, they have to purchase new buses, including Gilligs and Orions and NABIs (much to RTS_2150's bitter distaste). Oh, I also rode a Gillig Phantom on Palm Tran, and it was pretty comfortable to me, and it was quite cool and had a nice engine, nothing similiar to the later Metro-B, and on the number sign (at least for route 2) there was an S for southbound and an N for northbound, and that's really cool. Also, it seems like they were always sorta thinking of the place to put the rear number sign, since there was always that flat space even before Ride-On considered it. Now, if only it had rounder sides and maybe a wrap around windshield? Oh, and what does IMHO stand for?
Basman,
Even as a sworn Gillig-basher, I must admit that the Gillig Phanton can be the ideal bus for mid-sized transit operators; I'll even go as far as saying that 30 and 35 foot Phantoms are all-out great buses. For Ride-On, the Phantom is a very appropriate bus. However, Ride-On does not have the same needs for its buses as does WMATA or SEPTA or NYCTA, and the truth is that a Gillig Phantom does not hold a candle to an RTS or Orion or even Neoplan when it comes to heavy, demanding service. Evidence of this lies in the fact that only a handful pf large transit systems operate Phantoms on front line routes. Among them are AC Transit, Metro Transit (Minneapolis-St Paul), San Diego, St Louis. AC Transit, the transit operator who serves Gillig's hometown of Hayward, CA, bought its last Gillig in 1993; they have since switched to NABI's. A lot of drivers I have talked to at numerous TA's hate Phantoms, I cannot explain exactly why.
(I)n (M)y (H)onest (O)pinion, the Phantom is overall a pretty boring bus, but it does have some nice features. Phantoms have come with the rear cutout you talk about since the back of the Phantom was redesigned in 1984. Before rear route displays were popular, this area was often used to place the fleet number.
Don't even get me started on Gillig's low floor, the Advantage. This is a horrible, horrible bus in so many ways.
As for the New Looks, I disagree with your opinion completely. They might just have the brightest interiors of any bus. Lots of untinted, large windows on the sides combined that gigantic back window let light pour in. The interiors are open and bright, much moreso than an RTS.
SEPTA's Neoplan AN-440-A's will be around for a while. Even though the newest one is now ten years old, there are still Neos in service dating back to 1983. Keeping in mind that almost all of them are in good condition are there are hundreds upon hundreds of them in service, it will be a long time before the last one (3491) is retired. I too really like Neoplans and would like to see them operated in more cities.
That being said, the GM New Look has to be my all-time favorite bus, with the RTS as a close second. I still like Flxs and Orions and Phantoms, but these buses somehow lack the longevity and charisma of the GM designs.
Neil
Well, like I said before, I'm not even sure if I ever rode a GM New Look. I'm certain that I rode a flxible New Look, however, as well as every type of metro except for the metro A's. Also, I think that ctrabs said that they scrapped the 1983 models, so now the oldest are 1994 models, and then the New Flyers will be replacing some of them!
I miss the new looks, both GM and Flxible. I was always wondering why the WMATA FLxible New Looks, 8000-81xx, which were built maybe two years prior to the 8200-86xx Flxible New Looks disappeared over 10 uears before the others did. Instead of the black front and back bumpers, these had silver bumpers and had different engines. They may have been a Cummins or something similar, but it definitely didn't have the whine of the DD. Before WMATA rehabbed the GM's in the early 80's, the interiors of the buses still had the seats of the transit companies they belonged to before it all became Metrobus. Some had green/orange seats, some were black/orange and some were pastel plastic seats. Those were mainly on the 6700's. If only they never bought the AM Generals, there would have been several hundred more GM"s or Flx's running around.
I never heard any of WMATA 80XX-81XX series buses, but they could've had the DD 6V-71N like the 82XX-86XX series and the older 2-speed transmission (don't know the name of it). If this is the case then WMATA had a similar Flxible fleet like NYCTA at the time. In the 1970's all of NYCTA's Flxibles had DD 6V-71N engines (except 9155-9164 DD8V-71N), but the 1977 Flxibles (9000-9309) had the newer 3-speed transmission. These buses were pretty much identical to WMATA's 82XX-86XX series except NYCTA buses were 102 inches wide.
Before the 1977 9000-9309 series NYCTA had some 1973 Flxibles (7000-7204, 7300-7361) and 1975 Flxibles (7500-7659, 7700-7937). These buses had the same DD6V-71N engine, but they had a 2-speed tranny and they did not have the whine.
Wayne
That makes a lot of sense. I think the 80xx-81xx WMATA buses did sound very similar to the NYCT buses of the 70's. There definitely was a distinct different sound between these and the 82xx-86xx Flx that came along a couple of years later. I remember as a kid riding one the very first time and noticed the red seats inside as opposed to the old DC transit orange and green seats that were in every other bus that I had been on at the time. The older Flx's (68xx), like the ones that were shipped up to NY during the Grumman fiasco, to me sounded like a GM Fishbowl.
RE: WMATA's 68XX series Flxibles. Although I rode many of the WMATA buses while they were in NYC - I never did ride any of the 68XX Flxibles. I believe they were all assigned to Staten Island. These Flxibles were similar to the NYCTA 1969 Flxibles (4000-4202, 4600-4727) model 111C-D51. Again, the NYCTA buses had the DD 6V-71N engine and the 2-speed tranny - but they definitely sounded quite similar second & third generation fishbowls with the DD 6V-71N engine. Those early to mid 1970's Flxibles 70XX-73XX and 76XX-79XX were model 53102-6-1 and they sounded like nothing else in the fleet.
It's really interesting how the sound of one engine such as the DD6V-71 can vary so much in a different bus and different transmission. I'm sure the exhaust plays a part also as well improvements/changes to the engine throughtout it's production life.
Wayne
Okay this is new- a Flx that sounds like a Fishbowl? I thought all Flxibles sounded like vacuum cleaners.
Wondered what a AMG 6v71 sounds like? I have never heard one. What sound does that bus closely resemble.
It was a strange sounding bus, but that was the closest thing I could compare it to. Of course, I was fairly young at that time, so I could have had them mixed up. The AM Generals sounded similar to the 7000 series NYCT Flx's.
I wondered if the whine meant the bus had power steering? When did Flxible start offering three speeders in their 6v71 New Look busses? I also wondered if GM offered three speeders in American built New Looks with 6v71?
I'm pretty sure the whine was from the transmission and had nothing to do with power steering. NYCTA first buses with the 3-speed tranny was the 1977 Flxible and they did not have power steering. I could be wrong, but I didn't think any new looks from both GM or Flxible had power steering.
The hundreds of Flxibles purchased by NJDOT for Transport of New Jersey (and others) in 1975/76 had 3-speed transmissions. This was a mixed group of buses. Most were Transit 53102-8-1 and suburban 53096-8-1, but there were also some 45096-6-1 and 35096-6-1. I also remember a few of these Flxibles were basically a suburban body (one door) with a transit interior.
My understanding is that only a few GMC new looks had 3-speed transmissions. I think is was a small order (12 buses???) of 1977 T6H-4523 (with DD 6V-71N) and was perhaps the last new looks built by GMC since RTS production was starting. Of course GMDD has turned out many new looks with 3-speed trannys.
Wayne
The first Metro A's sounded like Grumman 870's. Then, the second batch started sounded like a watered down version of the old 6v71N. It was really quiet on the inside and if the driver relaxed his foot on the accelerator it was like riding in a car until the tranny jerked as was a trademark of Flxibles and many other types of buses.
Actually, GM modeled the New Look after it's line of automobiles. If you've seen any automobiles from the 50s and 60s, they'd almost certainly be ugly and unattractive. At that time, there was no way to build an attractive bus, especially without being able to build attractive cars.
As for the RTS, it was loosely based on GMs newer cars from the 70s. It had the squared headlamps of the Cadillac and carried the sleek curves of most 1970s vehicles, but really it was in a class of ut's own.
Designed to be ugly??? Surely you jest. Your transportation historians you cite sure sound as though they are presenting the rabid rail fan version of GM and not a balanced account of the story. True GM is not perfect, made mistakes, but evil? Come on, you have more sense than that. (and before the flames start, I am a rail fan as well as a bus fan but make a point to look at the whole story, not just one side)
I might suggest you read this article published originally in Transportation Quarterly back in 1997 about GM and the National City Lines. It's called General Motors and the Demise of the Streetcars and is very well balanced plus explains and debunks many of the railfan versions of what happened. Also sources of the information are made available which is something I have yet to see on any railfan version of the GM story because they have no source, just tainted beliefs.
The main problem with the railfan versions of everything is that no matter what happened to the property in question, GM and NCL are blamed regardless of any facts. I work with the Ohio Museum of Transportation and receive letters from rabid rail fans that think the Museum is funded by GM for the sole purpose of destroying the remaining light rail lines in North America. These people are so stupid that they can't comprehend GM is not the root of all evil in the world and still try and find any way possible to blame GM for any problems in the light rail world (even current problems) even though they no longer produce buses or the engines that go in them.
GM, regardless of your railfan historians' version, was not about to scrap all of transit as you indicate in your post. If GM had wanted to put the coffin nail into public transit as you say, then all they needed to do was simply make a cheap and inferior bus, with no quality in it at all. Flooding the market with cheap, poorly made buses would have done more to damage the industry than putting out a well built bus that lasts 15-20 years. GM is a business, not a devil's workshop. Companies bought the bus because of it's modern looks and quality construction. There were other manufacturers and even NCL companies bought non-GM on occaision. The other companies, granted, didn't have the money or technology to design a bus such as what GM could so of course GM was going to pull ahead. But guess what? If GM didn't do it, some other bus manufacturer eventually would and the railfans would still be pounding that company. The operating companies could have very easily gone with other manufacturers if they chose to do so.
Beleive what you want but you and your sources are wrong. GM was quite proud of the design, which was conceived at least as far back as 1956 (as I have some blue prints from GM showing original drawing dates of 6-56) but possibly as far back as 1954. It was typical 50's futurama styling for the day when it came out in 1959. Just like the RTS which is your classic 60's futurama design as it was designed as the RTX in the 60's, the new look was designed with how the designers perceived what the future would look like ten years down the road. In the eyes of many people (not myself) the GM old look was hideous looking and buses such as Mack, Twin, Brill were the dream coach design. It all depends on how you look at it. Like me, I prefer the New Look design over the RTS design any day of week and feel it was a much better bus than the RTS while you feel the opposite. Depends on how you look at it, like I said. Even in railfan circles, there are critics of the much revered PCC car that say it was an ugly design and the St Louis Car Company drove out many of the other car manufacturing companies.
RDChilds
>>>the GM old look was hideous looking and buses such as Mack, Twin, Brill were the dream coach design.<<<
There were no dream coaches back then. They were all ugly. The NL was a VAST improvement over any bus manufactured up to that time.
Not to be a pain but if your going to quote me, quote me correctly please...
I said in the post:
In the eyes of many people (not myself) the GM old look was hideous looking and buses such as Mack, Twin, Brill were the dream coach design.
I believe I DID quote you correctly. I was just stating they were all ugly and that I felt there were no dream coaches. I never said YOU had stated you felt that way. I can read and I clearly saw the (not myself included) in your post.
Before the introduction of the GM new look, the buses that operated throughout the 1950's were not very much different from one another, other than to the real rabid bus fan. The introduction of the fishbowl was clearly a major event in bus mass transit, and for the first time in many years, the average bus rider recognized that here was a vehicle that was years ahead of what she/he had previously been riding. The new look was similar to the sleek intercity buses then in existence and, thus, a world apart from the ho-hum old looks. Bus operators, both public and private, did much advertising to advise potential passengers of the arrival of new buses in their fleets during the very early years of the new looks. Whether they actually affected patronage, I don't know, but I suspect not too much. But for those of us who lived through the introduction of the GM new look, it is hard to conceive it as a vehicle designed to be ugly. Clearly, it was the opposite.
>>> True GM is not perfect, made mistakes, but evil? Come on, you have more sense than that. <<<
The difference between me and anyone else here is that I live in Detroit, GM's own backyard. From a very young age, when I was not yet even interested in transit, I have watched GM oppress the city of Detroit by destroying its neighborhoods, polluting its air and water, conduct fishy business dealings with city officials, and a whole slew of other dastardly doings.
I have many friends who work for GM, and even many of them are convinced that their employer is evil.
Later, when I developed the locationally-ironic interest of mass transit, I finally had to come to terms with the fact that my hometown Fortune 500 corporation was responsible for destroying America's great transit systems, and replacing them with a 50 year legacy of sprawl, isolation, pollution, and other malaise.
Needless to say, this on top of what I had already known about GM did not necessarily improve my image of them.
Let me ask you all something: Do the companies headquartered in your cities use their own terrain as dumping grounds? Of course not. For the most part, they locate factories in established industrial areas, not residential neighborhoods. They also see to it that they have a reputable and well-regarded name via community involvement and other programs.
In Detroit, quite the opposite is true. All of the automakers, GM especially, use the entire Southeastern Michigan region as a place to concentrate all of their undesirable institutions. Of course, being born and raised in the "rust belt," I very much value American industry and the jobs and economic benefits associated with it. However, it is not acceptable for gargantuan corporations to exploit entire metropolitan areas while giving so relatively little in return. Ask someone in metro Detroit what they think of GM, and you're just as likely to hear a negative response as a positive one.
And to RDChilds, who I believe resides in Pittsburgh, look at what happens when a city finally says to industry "No more." In the 1970's, Pittsburgh and Detroit were both plummeting rapidly. Pittsburgh learned its lesson, and arrived at the conclusion that industry and quality-of-life must meet halfway. This is a crucial piece of the success puzzle which Detroit has yet to fit in. Detroit bends over backwards for a company which claims its new factory will create a few jobs, even if it means destroying the quality-of-life for thousands of residents.
Today, Pittsburgh remains one of the most productive and industrial regions in the country, but quality-of-life has skyrocketed during the last two decades or so. Detroit's "industry only" approach has turned marginally positive results during recent years of economic prosperity, but I say with confidence to say that our quality-of-life is close to the lowest in the country.
Oh well, at least one of our transit systems is halfway decent.
Neil
If GM wanted to kill off transit, the way to do it would be to build shoddy, unreliable, smelly (diesel smoke-y) buses, not "unattractive" buses. The New Look isn't outrageous design-wise; it takes styling cues ubiquitous to '50s automobiles and stretches them.
Yours isn't a bad theory, but frankly, the automobilization of America was more or less over by the advent of the New Look, and there were certain demographics that, for one reason or another, would never buy cars. Had GM done this in the '30s -- built crappy buses that couldn't keep schedules and were extremely unpleasant to ride (not that the New Looks were) -- then I'd give some credence to it, but I don't think that (in the late '50s) it was a plot to force public-housing resident single mothers into brand-new Buicks.
Chris
Watching the opening credits tonight on TVLand I noticed one of MabBSTOA'a batwing fishbowls(the 5303's).The # though I could never make out.Was it 6834 or 24(non a/c)or was it 8634 or 24 (with the a/c).Also noticed at the end of the opening credits there seems to be what looks like one of QS's(then Queens Transit and Steinway Transit respectively)Suburban Coach Fishbowls from the early to late 60's?I know it has to be cause they were in the 260-264 class and ran like into the late 80's.(which had 1 placed in front of it when they acquired the RTS-04's in 85.However I want to be sure if I am correct.
I think they have two different opening themes. One is real long and the other is short. In the long one, I thought they had a shot of the front side of a 75,76,77 or 7800 flexible.
Couldn't be,the Odd Couple premired in the early 70's.The 7500's Flexibles came out in 75/76
I just remembered the wheels were white/blue
When the Odd Couple was done the TA not introduced the two tone blue paint scheme.
Wayne
During the opening credits, there is bus that looks like a QT or ST bus but I'm not sure if it was one of those. Odd Couple was filmed in the early 70's and QS/QT's paint scheme during that time didn't have the large stripe painted across the middle of the bus yet. During the ending credits, a MaBSTOA without AC and with batwings goes by. In the motion picture, Felix gets on a 5500 series fishbowl with batwings and no AC.
I thought only the Mabstoa 6600's had the batwings w/c.i remeber this going to Elmhurst Hospital as a child and getting them on the old 16(later to be Q89)and on the old 15 (later M then Q32).
MaBSTOA buses with batwings and no AC were 5516-5525, 6701-6900.
MaBSTOA buses with batwings and with AC were 8301-8780.
Also 3472 was the first with wings (no AC) which were add ons.
I thought only the Mabstoa 6600's had the batwings w/o a/c.I remeber this going to Elmhurst Hospital as a child and getting them on the old 16(later to be Q89)and on the old 15 (later M then Q32).
All I remember is that where in the opening credits -
1) Felix walks in the rain and the announcer goes "Deep down he knew she was right" he walks and a green NYCTA or MABSTOA bus pulls up but I cannot make out the number -
2) Where Felix takes a 'nasal shot' and the name 'Tony Randall' is shown, a bus is seen in the distance with a 'Majorska' sign on it - I think its a blue or green batwing.
By the way - off the subject - any one know why 'Majorska' does not advertise on the buses anymore - but Georgi Vodka does (every summer)?
Flx7595
Felix is standing on the sidewalk with his belongings when some guy asks if he can help. A MaBSTOA green 8600 goes by. I will have to look at some tapes I have to see the exact number which I cannot recall at this moment. BTW, one other note off bus topic, the guy who is asking if he can help isn't an actor. He was really walking by and didn't know filming was going on. Felix (Tony Randall) tells him to get lost or something like that. At least that's the story I heard.
There was a story floating around my depot that the New Flyer articulateds were pulled from service during the snowstorm this past Saturday. Does anyone know if this is true?
Yes its true. I dispatch at 79 and Broadway on Saturday 11a to 7pm and all the artics were pulled off the 79's around 11 am leaving me with only one RTS for about 2 hours!
As the day progressed however more and more rts's started coming out.
It took longer for the 86St crosstowns to be replaced and they were still pulling out artics by the early afternoon but by nighfall all the 86St crosstown was replaced by RTS's also.
Unoffically I think about 4 accidents occurred with the artics Saturday 2 on the 86 and 2 on the 79 both involving the trailer part of the bus going to the right on its own and striking fixed objects.
Mr MaBSTOA did you move from SI to Manhattan ?
Just curious.
Mr t__:^)
No, Ive always been in Manhattan as a supervisor at various locations.
Were artics also pulled from the other boroughs?
I wonder if this means that the NYCTA will not want to buy anymore considering that they can't be used in all type of weather?
how ridiculous. do you think nyct uses common sense. as a 21 year veteran of the agency i assure you they dont.
For the 3-5 times a year we have weather bad enough, I don't think so.
-Hank
Now that is what I call FISH TAILING!!
I was curious to notice RTS buses running on the M23 along with artics at various points during the day on Saturday. I wasn't aware of the total disappearance of artics at any point. My assumption was that, with ridership down, the TA was just running smaller buses, although I wondered how the artics would fare in the snow. Surely they must have been tested in all kinds of weather, and they are in use in many cities more snowy than NYC.
They ran Artics on the M79 on Xmas day. Big mistake, they weren't needed. It only gave the TA a chance to say they work on 79th Street (they don't unless no one is on them).
I don't know if that rumor is true, but I wouldn't doubt it.
I know that SEPTA has had problems running the new Neo artics on the 9 and 27 lines in Manayunk and Roxborough, since those buses have had problems getting up Ridge Av during snowstorms. The problem is that since the "drive" axle is the rear axle, rather than the center axle, traction isn't as good as they were on the Volvos.
I don't know if the NYC artics are the same way, but that would be my guess.
While talking about artrics ,We know that BeeLine didn't even run on Saturday;so we that their Man Artrics weren't out.But did NJTransit send out its Volvo's when it was running during Saturday's storm.
I heard that too and believe it. My sources reported seeing an RTS in Central Park.
Could have been a M66,M72,M96 or M106:those are the only cross park routes running RTS's
I wonder if NYCTA has thought about this or made plans for pulling the Artics during snow storms. I know for years Westchester's Bee Line would pull their MAN articulateds from service during snow storms.
Wayne
A couple of nights ago, I had a dream I was at some type of event and a giant bus pulled into the parking lot. Upon closer examination, it was an NJT Flxible, number 3567. It was the size of an MCI E Series coach and about the same length. It had the old Flxible wrap-around tail-lamps but it had an exhaust pipe on top like the New Flyer Vikings and a door like it as well. Also, the middle of the back of the bus potruded out ward and had two red lights the blinked when the breaks were pressed and had the rear dest. sign there as well. It pulled in VERY slowly because it was so big so I couldn't hear the motor.
Maybe this means that MCI will produce the Flxible after all, who knows.
I wish your dream came true. But MCI cruisers are so darn popular that they may not produce them (yet anyways).
What GM came before the Old Look? If that exists, I would like to see a picture and technical specifications.
I remember seeing production records of Old Looks and the earliest model was made in 1940. Was it the earliest date built? Obviously production ended in 1959 in which the New Look took over.
Right now I am seeing posts about New Looks was intended by GM to destroy the transit market. Hmmm...I wonder!!!! I will keep reading that thread see where it goes.
Actually, production of 40ft. Old Looks ended in the early 1960s if not 1960. The 30ft. model continued to thrive until the "Baby New Look" was introduced in 1969.
Do a search Yellow Coach for info.
Before the GM Old Looks were Yellow Coach buses of various models.
Before Yellow Coach, I think we're going for horse-drawn trollies!!!
Before the Old Look GMs were various models of Yellow Coaches, usually 30 or 35 feet long. The first 40 foot buses were GM Old Looks of 1948 vintage (Models 5101 and 5102). Examples of the pre-Old Looks were Yellow 740s (35 feet long) and Yellow 728s (32 feet long) produced in the 1935-1939 period. These were gasoline powered buses that seated 40 and 36 passengers respectively. Fifth Ave. Coach and NYC Omnibus operated large fleets of pre-Old Look Yellows. BTW, GM owned Yellow Coach from 1925 onward - in 1943 the Yellow Coach "brand" was changed to GM Coach.
Happy New Year all.
Passed by Stengel Main on the #7. Saw 3 RTS' in the depot. Too much snow to make out the number. One was in the Parking Lot by Roosevelt Avenue with all decals off. The other two looked to be whole. One was probably 4448.
Any idea which ones these are? Are they the ones from Jamaica?
flx7595
It may be some 1747, 1752 and 1844 from Jamaica :( Rumor had it that they were there. Otherwise, it may either be 3572 and/or 3865. As far as I know 4448 is still running out of CS.
Q32#4448Gary
It may be 1747, 1752 and 1844 from Jamaica :( Rumor had it that they were there. Otherwise, it may either be 3572 and/or 3865. As far as I know 4448 is still running out of CS.
Q32#4448Gary
I'll kill the rumor right now. It's none of Jamaica depot's buses. One I'm sure is 4448 but didn't Stengel have 2 other RTS's also that they just scrapped? It's probably those.
BIG AL
1 bus COULD be 4448. 1742 was in that yard before and she vanished-can't be her. 1745 could be the 2nd bus. The other I'm not sure.
PS-BIG AL are the 1700s still in Express Service?
Fear not, Gary; I saw 1747 on Queens Blvd near Union Tpke yesterday morning. I didn't catch the route #, though.
Re #8196: We have since seen this particular RTS with the vent holes on the upper left rear, but it has not as yet been DD50-repowered. Is that still in the plans for this bus?
Also, will they be DD50-repowering all remaining 6V92TA-powered RTSs or just the ones from 1992 and 1993?
And does the RTS have a future at NYCT (providing the new low-floor version is a hit)?
Thanks in advance.
of course the boys at yukon were well prepared for the first big day after the storm. all 30 of the rts buses used for school service wouldnt start being idle last week. the boys gave up and attempted to make express service. no easy task as most mci buses spent the weekend outdoors. i had to climb snowdrifts and dodge ice to get my dysfunctional bus. thence back in depot to pull out another bus 15 minutes late. how did other depots fare?
At 8am, all the lanes on Forest Hill Rd were clear of buses. I didn't pass AK, so I can't say what was going on there.
-Hank
Were all the 5000 series Artics moved from Quill to 126th in anticipation of Articulated M15 service?
Also, I rode an artic on the M79 on X-mas Day. This is the only time the artics work on 79th Street-when no one is riding. I think the MTA needs to reconsider their strategy here. M79 and M86 service is slower than it was before because there are fewer buses and longer waits. Artics belong on the M15, M101/2/3, and maybe the M104.
No the 5300 artrics were moved up to Kingsbridge in the Bronx.OTS is testing 5406 & 5407 on the M15 presently(these two are also out of KB)Furthermore The M15 should be the only route with Artrics out OTS;the M31 & M57 should also be considered ,cause those 2 routes are extremely crowded at all times.
I mean shouldn't not should.
The artics should have been instituted as a service increase. Headways should have been kept constant, with the artics used to provide greater capacity on existing headways.
Artics on the M104 wouldn't be practical. There's too much double parking and illegal parking in bus stops along Broadway -- I don't think the bus would ever be able to pull up to the curb.
Anyone know the status of the negotiations between NYC DOT, the various NYC private bus companies, and the TWU? Is there any immediate strike threat?
IDK but they were supposed to strike at the stroke of Midnight January 1, 2001. Maybe they got everything settled. Thurston would know info on this.
Well, obviously Jan 1st has come & gone ... they are still talking. The TWU had a strike vote approved by the membership (typical step for a union leadship) and they commited to provide 24 hours notice if they decide to strike should the parties reach an impass.
Disclaimer: I'm not part of the negotiations in any way & this is NOT a official notice, but just a personal comment from a employee of one of the "private" companies.
Mr t__:^)
P.S. If I were the TWU I wouldn't strike now for three reasons: One, they may feel there's still hope to get what they want; Two, it's too cold to walk a picket line; Three, the members still need a little more time to pay off those Christmas bills.
(P.S. If I were the TWU I wouldn't strike now for three reasons: One, they may feel there's still hope to get what they want;
Two, it's too cold to walk a picket line; Three, the members still need a little more time to pay off those Christmas bills.)
Four, your going to get a new City Council next year, and unless all the new folks are relatives of the old folks, it might be representative. A strike would provoke calls for greater legalizations of private vans.
What bus lines do you guys and girls recommend riding for fun?
Just lines in Queens, Manhattan and Brooklyn. I like ones with many hills and curves.
I would like to recommend a line that doesn't fit what you're looking for: the Q58. It always runs according to schedule, nice views in Corona and Flushing, lots of 1985,86 and 87 RTS buses running. The Nova junk at Fresh Pond runs on the other routes.
Well the Q58 have curves along Corona Avenue as well....
Q58#9140Mike
Well, the Q58 have curves along Corona Avenue also.
Q58#9140Mike
Q18 from TCC has lots of turns and hills from Astoria-Maspeth. The Q38 is the weirdest route from Otis Ave-62 Dr and 108 St. A 40 minutes bus rode for a 10 minute walk-worth the ride though. The Q67 AKA "The BoneYard" from QS has a variety of turns from Queens Plaza to Metropolitan Ave. The Q41 from Green Lines makes the weirdest turns down the smallest streets of South Ozone Park from Jamaica-Howard Beach. The Q17 from MTA Jamaica has some interesting turns at 188 Street from Flushing-Jamaica. Then a pretty steep hill down to Hillside Ave. But the steepest hill to go up wpuld have to be 164 St-Hillside Ave- Q65 from QS. At times people have to walk up the hill to recatch the bus because the hill is so steep. I'll try and think of some more for you. That's all for now.
Q18#2821Gary
Q38#2804Gary
Q41#611Gary
Q17#9551Gary
Q65#384Gary
The ride isn't particularly spectacular (Woodhaven and Cross Bay Blvds), but for destinations, the Q11 is it, especially if you're also a subway fan. Take it out to 99 St & 165 Ave in Howard Beach; you get a great view of Jamaica Bay from Frank M. Charles Park, and it's an excellent vantage point for pictures of the A trains to Rockaway.
The Q53 is a nice ride, too; again, boring along Woodhaven & Cross Bay Blvds, but non-stop; then you go through Broad Channel & over the Cross Bay Bridge!
The B13 & B18 look like they would be nice rides as they wind through the cemeteries in Cypress Hills, but I've never ridden them.
If it's hills and turns you're after, you need to change your criteria and spend a day riding around Staten Island :).
The B13 & B18 are fun rides along Cypress Hills Street.even though the B18 you only get half the fun due to its turning off on to Cypress Ave by the Interborough(excuse me;Jackie Robinson)Pkwy.The B13 is the far better of the 2 routes especially after Cypress Ave ,when head down hill again towards Cooper Avenue.From there boring run to Mrytle/Wycoff.
Curves? Try the M5 along Riverside Drive or any of the Central Park crosstowns (M66, M72, M79, M86, M96, M106).
Bus routes, of course, avoid hills when practical. On the M5, you'll soar above Manhattan Valley on a viaduct. If you take the M4 or M104 instead, you'll descend into the depths of the valley.
Saw 643 operating on the N24 with no front destination sign, and had cardboard up there instead.
Also saw 201 being towed down Glen Cove road. Those Cummins always crap out on the N21, the sign said N21 Flushing.
It seems most of the broken down buses I see are on the N21. That's what happens when you stick those Cummins on one of the most difficult and hilly LI Bus routes.
The N21 should get the new buses exclusively.
Heard 171 stall out while OOS in Roslyn. The light was green and cars were honking.
Next thing I'll see life in the slow lane in Newsday
Motorist asks:
"I'm stuck behind a LI Bus again. He's not picking up passengers, he broke down. So why are the buses stalling out? I mean I'm missing lights and loosing time"
Dear motorist
"Be glad you don't have to ride LI Bus. Alot of their buses use an unreliable engine, couple that with the poor maintainance record and you get breakdowns. Let that be a lesson to you!"
Why don't the LI Buses (100-245, 270-287) get repowered just like the MTA 1993 Orions are getting right now? 297 is no longer Cummins-powered-so they should do that with the LI buses since those buses are so horrible.
N24#310Gary
Well it's LI Bus, and we don't exactly get the quality of service that NYCT gets. They should re-power the L10G buses, but LI Bus is pretty strapped for cash as it is, so we have to suffer.
Unusual site today: Saw 2 Orions I haven't seen in service in months.
Orion 285 - which sat at Stengel Annex all summer and most of the fall - looked like hell outside.
Then Orion 274 - which was as clean as I have ever seen a bus - especially in this weather. Is she back from repowering? I mean, to give you an idea of how long she has been gone, the sign on the back was GEORGI VODKA, which came off all the buses this fall.
Then in the yard - Orion 290.
Then just this morning - Orion 297 on the Q15 5am run out of Main St to Powells Cove.
I guess theyre coming back?
flx7595
My apologies for the re: line. 227 should have said 290. Typo
flx7595
Was 297 repowered or not?? Could u tell?
Hope the Cummins is gone!!
Bus 297 should have a Series 50 engine. Buses 295-297, and 299-300 were shipped off to Blitz Bus & Truck in Chicago (yes, THAT "Blitz" company) to have their Cummins C8.3 engines replaced. I guess they're heading back in now.
Mark
I saw 276 back on the Q20 today. She looked repowered.
286 and 288 are back in service, but do not look to be repowered
I dont think they would LOOK repowered. Rather they will SOUND repowered.
It is very easy to tell a repowered bus. Simply look on the upper-rear left corner of the bus for a vertical exhuast pipe. If there's a pipe there, then it has been repowered. This holds true for both 1993 RTS (8401-8564) and Orion V buses.
Mark
I pass by ENY Maintenence every day. About 1-2 times a week I see an Orion come out. Half the time I can't see the #, but whenever I can, it is always a 200.
this bus which was virtually totaled in a fire on vz bridge in 9/98 has retuned from eny cmf looking brand new. however yukon has no orion suburbans so who knows what lies ahead. 127 and 128 are at castleton and ive seen both broken down recently. 120 may also be there but that bus hasnt seen service in 6 months. why these 4 remain on si while the rest are in queens is a mystery only the dob could answer.
I think these should be coming to Stengel along with the Orion Suburbans we already have. We will give them a good home.
flx7595
these are now available. contact nyct at 25 jamaica av the dept of buses to get yours. i believe the # is 1888safebus.
That number is incorrect. The nice lady in the East NY Depot said my friends should call 718-927-7499. My calendar is in the mail, how about yours ?
If it's anything like last year's you'll see scenes in and around operations ... smiling customers, happy drivers at the Dispatcher's windows, painting, tire changing, welding, etc. ... enjoy.
BTW, she didn't mind at all that I work for one of those OTHER bus companies in NYC.
Mr t__:^)
got mine yestrday-what a beauty
Put my order in yesterday. Call 888NYCTBUS
B46M Limited
according to the si advance the bus bill is now on the governors desk. he has 30 days to take action. its believed he will seek a solution that will create two nyct routes and two private routes. the private operator will get metrocard fareboxes and may be atlantic express. the two nyct routes were supposed to start in jan but were postponed by someone at jay st possibly pres reuter. reuter and 726 pres hanley have been enemies since 1987 when reuter was ta surface vp and hanley picketed his house.
This certainly qualifies under both categories:
CT Transit has about 25 Scanias still in service (#8801-8825), which were built in 1988. All of these buses operate out of the Stamford Division. There was also a 35-ft Scania running out of Stamford (#8701) which had a flip dot destination sign and was used on Commuter Connection service before the arrival of the new 30-ft low floor buses.
These are rare buses in that I know of only two other US transit systems which ever had Scanias - COAST in Portsmouth, NH and Hawaii's The Bus transit system in Honolulu.
What I think make these buses even more odd is that the front of the bus interiors had the soft seats, while the rear of the buses had "hard" seats with minimal cushioning. Has anyone else ever seen a bus interior with such a strange seating arrangement?
ctrabs74 wrote:
What I think make these buses even more odd is that the front of the bus interiors had the soft seats, while the rear of the buses had "hard" seats with minimal cushioning. Has anyone else ever seen a bus interior with such a strange seating arrangement?
Pittsburgh had 410 1983 Neoplan AN440's and an additional 60 1986 Neoplan AN440's that had the cushioned seats in the front and hard plastic in the rear behind the center door. 30 M-A-N articulated from 1983 had them as well as the 110 1980 RTS 03's that we had here among others. I thought that was a common practice as I know I've seen other systems that have this as well.
RDChilds
Yes, that is EXACTLY how our 175-bus fleet of 1980 RTS's were originally set up at Orange County Transportation Authority in southern California.
Around 1992, two of them had the soft seats between the front and rear doors replaced with some reclinging seats (which came out of a couple of MC-9's the county sheriff bought from a tour company to haul prisoners in, didn't want them being too comfortable). Those two were used on Metrolink commuter rail connection routes, and at the time were completely wrapped to look like Metrolink locomotives.
Only one bus was withdrawn from service after being in a nasty wreck when it was four years old. About half the fleet has been sold off in the past couple years. The rest are still going quite strong though they are really showing their age now.
Back in the mid-late 80's, I'd say it was either 1987 or 1988, on the BX 12 in New York, I was coming how from high school with some friends.
We got on a Fishbowl which had the typical white w/blue stripe scheme.
Inside, however, was another story. The interior was like nothing I had ever seen before. The interior was made up of the colors beige, orange, brown, and some green. The walls were of a beige or off-white color with a wallpaper-like design of brown stars. The seating arrangement on the bus was similar to the new RTS busses running at the time. The difference was that the seats were of a hard plastic. Some were orange while others were green. We ended up sitting in the back of the bus which had the seats that had the backs to the window, while the middle of the bus had seats which faced front. I was already a bus fan back then, and I couldn't help but remark the strange interior to my friends. My friends were not bus fans, but they too noticed that the bus looked different from others we used to take. My guess is that the bus belonged to a former express line.
Is it possible that the bus was acquired from another company? Like Queens Surface or even an outside municipality? Does anyone know this bus I'm talking about?
The other strange thing I once remarked on a bus was that there was one fishbowl that used to run on the BX 12 during the same time. This one had the words THE JACKIE GLEASON SPECIAL written in magic marker in the front of the bus on top of the bus ID number inside to the right of the driver. To this day I wonder if this was the work of vandals, or was it a pet name for this bus. This was around the time that The Great One passed away, so maybe this was a simple way to remember him?
Can't say anything about that strange interior.....
...but as for the grafitti, back in those days, I hate to say it, a LOT of the stuff up front was the work of bus operators themselves. I can remember seeing a lot of comments scrawled on walls about defects on certain buses. Drivers told me that if something was on the wall above the driver seat, at least the next driver knew what to expect, as writing it on a defect card was a waste of ink!!!
I also remember seeing a lot of buses with varying numbers of stars and 1/2 symbols above the windshield in red or black magix marker, and one driver I asked said that "someone in the garage gives the buses a rating like the movie critics"!!!
SEPTA operators use to do that on The PCC's during the 70's, write a comment on the performance of that particular car, and now they are doing that on the buses as well.
The fishbowl you describe certainly doesn't sound like a TA bus. My only guess would be it may have been WMATA borrowed bus during the absence of the Grumman 870's, but I'm not sure I remember any of the Washington, DC, buses running in Brooklyn. However, the colors sound like they might have been on a WMATA fishbowl.
In the coming year, FY 2001-2002, we have some CNG, Hybrid, Articulated and Cruiser orders coming in.
126th Street:
71 New Flyer D60HF Articulated buses, Bus #5510-5570. That is the plan for now but of course is subject to change.
Quill:
69 New Flyer D60HF Articulated buses, Bus #5571-5649. That is also the plan for now but of course is subject to change.
Coliseum:
10 out of the 125 Orion VII Low Floor CNG order. The rest of the depot will be RTS.
This means that the latter part of the Orion VII CNG order will go to Jackie Gleason.
Manhattanville/Mother Clara Hale:
The Orion VII Low Floor Hybrids will be split between these two depots. Also the order has been upped from 125 buses to over 200 from what I understand.
Castleton/Ulmer Park:
The next 70 MCI D4500 Cruisers will be split upon Castleton and Ulmer Park. This means more Orion V Suburban, NovaBUS RTS-06 Suburban and other Suburban bus moves. Also I understand that another 100 Cruisers have been tacked on to this order, but I haven't had that confirmed yet.
Flatbush:
From the previous post, there is a plan for another 400 New Flyer D60HF Articulated buses to be added to the NYCT fleet, so I'm guessing by that number that Flatbush will not be the only one up for more Articulated buses in the next 2-4 years.
Maspeth:
This will be a Bus Depot and a Central Maintenance Facility, closing down the ENY CMF. This garage will have Articulated and CNG capabilities. But as for fleet assignments, it remains to be known.
Any other questions feel free to e-mail me at tlogan@transitalk.com
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
When you say the plan for the articulated order for 126 and Quill is subject to change are you referring to the number of buses being allocated to each depot or is there the possibility that those two depots will not receive articulateds?
In regards to Maspeth, the December issue of The Leader, the DOB's employee newsletter, features a front page article on the new Zerega CMF. Towards the end of the article the subject of other new facilities is adressed. In regards to Maspeth the following statement is made; " Within five years, a second CMF is scheduled to open in Maspeth, Queens. Similar to the East NY complex, this facility will include a depot for the indoor parking of 210 buses." The article goes on to say that new depots for Jamaica and Mother Clara Hale along with an annex for Staten Island will be built by 2007. In addition Manhattanville will be upgraded to CNG and Castleton, Yukon and Ulmer Park will undergo extensive rehabilitation.
That is correct!!!!!! I heard the same thing!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
This is for FY 2001-2005,
As many of you know the new MCI D4000, D4000/96, and D4500 Cruiser orders have begun for NJ Transit. But there is some new information concerning this bus order and two other planned bus orders for 2003.
Here is the new Series Numbers and Garage assignments for the new MCI Cruiser orders.
MCI D4000 Cruiser: 7501, 7504-8384 (862 Coaches)
MCI D4000/96 Cruiser: 7502, 8900-8996 (97 Coaches)
MCI D4500 Cruiser: 7503, 8400-8683 (285 Coaches)
This is a option for 256 more buses but the option has not been taken. Some of the D4000 Cruisers will come with bathrooms for the 319 and 552 routes. So far they are up in the 78xx series on the manufacturing side of things. Assignments for this order will follow as:
D4000 Cruisers: Market Street, Meadowlands, Oradell, Wayne, Howell, Ironbound, Egg Harbor, Newton Avenue (Camden), Washington Township. Then some will be distributed to Privates like Red & Tan, DeCamp, Academy, Suburban, Trans-Bridge, Olympia Trails, so on and so on.
D4000/96 Cruisers: Howell (8 of them for the 134 Route), the rest will go to Suburban & Academy.
D4500 Cruises: Howell (68 of them) & Wayne (33 of them), the rest will be distributed among some of the Private Operators.
That's it for the MCI Cruiser order but theres more!
In 2003, the Volvo B-10M Suburban/Transit Fleet and the Flxible METRO-B Suburban/Transit Fleet will be replaced. The perspectives for the Articulated fleet is Neoplan Transliner AN-460 (most likely not), NABI Model 436, and the New Flyer D60HF. For the Flxible METRO-B Suburban/Transit replacementes; the perspectives are the NovaBUS RTS WFD, NABI Model 416, & the Orion V (from what I understand NABI has a greater chance than the others).
Any other questions feel free to contact me via e-mail at tlogan@transitlk.com
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
[Some of the D4000 Cruisers will come with bathrooms for the 319 and 552 routes. So far they are up in the 78xx series on the manufacturing side of things.]
I would think that most of the bathroom equipped buses will show up at Egg Harbor, since both the 319 and 552 run from there. Some of these buses will probably also end up at Meadowlands as well.
In an interesting side note, the bathroom equipped buses currently at Egg Harbor (I believe these were once assigned to Market St/Paterson) are also put into service on the other Egg Harbor-based Suburban routes (ie. 551, 553, 554, 559).
[D4000 Cruisers: Market Street, Meadowlands, Oradell, Wayne, Howell, Ironbound, Egg Harbor, Newton Avenue (Camden), Washington Township.]
Not to come across as biased towards South Jersey, but I hope Newton Av and/or Washington Twp get their new buses sooner rather than later. I know that Newton Av and Howell are the only garages that operate the AE-20s. Since the AE-20s are apparently the first batch of buses to be retired, maybe Newton Av will get the D4000s sooner (Howell already has quite a few new cruisers over the past year). But, knowing NJT's past practices relating to South Jersey, they might send down some MC-9As and 9Bs before we see new buses running the streets of Philadelphia and South Jersey.
[In 2003, the Volvo B-10M Suburban/Transit Fleet and the Flxible METRO-B Suburban/Transit Fleet will be replaced. The perspectives for the Articulated fleet is Neoplan Transliner AN-460 (most likely not), NABI Model 436, and the New Flyer D60HF.]
I guess NJT didn't like the Neos for whatever reason. If that's the case, I hope they go with the New Flyers.
[For the Flxible METRO-B Suburban/Transit replacementes; the perspectives are the NovaBUS RTS WFD, NABI Model 416, & the Orion V (from what I understand NABI has a greater chance than the others).]
Wouldn't some of these newer buses have to be 96" since the 120 Bayonne - Wall St line uses the Holland Tunnel? By my count, Greenville would need at least 8-10 96" wide buses to make the 120 line. I know that the 120 is the only transit line that operates via the Holland, but what happens to that line once the Flxible Metro B's are retired?
Egg Harbor and Meadowlands will see a even amount of the Bathroom Equipped D4000 Coaches, since these will be bathroom buses they will not be called Cruisers, they will be called D4000 Coaches.
Any garage that operates the Eagle AE-20 Cruisers will see the new MCIs dead first, then anyone with MC-9As will see thier new MCIs next, most likely Oradell will be the first Northern Garage with the D4000 Cruisers since thier garage is like 95% MCI.
From what I understand also, for Articulateds, it looks like the NABI Model 436 might be the top ranking choice, and yes 96" wide Suburban 40' will be ordered too. Once the Flxible METRO-Bs are retired, they will be up for sale like the 870-Bs. I'm purchasing one myself!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
NABIs? Yuck! At least by Neo artics, some sound like Grumman 870s. As for all these MCI coaches, why not buy something besides the D-series? The E4000 and 4500 Coaches look WAY better than the bread and butter D Cruiser.
Also, I hope they buy New Flyer buses and not NABI 40ft. models. Maybe even some buses like the Orion VIs running for WMATA would be nice. But, hey, that's just my opinion.
I don't think NJ Transit will be buying low floors, so rule out the Orion VI. By the time they are ready for some low floors in the urban areas, the Orion VI will have been discontinued and the existing ones will be well on their way to retirement.
I would like to see NJ Transit buy Neoplan buses; suburban coaches, 40 foot transits, and artics.
NABI's or Orion V's would be acceptable.
The D Series is by far a more superior coach than the E or G Series! And it's another one of my favorites.
Also we don't do the low floor thing at NJ Transit, I'm praying for NABIs for the 40' and 60' Buses.
NABIs RULE! Just like FLXIBLEs RULE!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
What routes will the D4000's out of Wayne run on?
The D4000s out of Wayne will go on any route now that operates MCIs, Waynes D4500s will see service on the heavy 192 and 190 lines.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I thought the 190 ran from Market St/Paterson. Or will that change upon arrival of the D4500s?
The 190 left Market Street approximately two years ago, when Wayne opened. Warwick closed it's doors also and sent it's 190s to Wayne too! 190 Rush Hour trippers operate out of Market Street & Meadowlands ONLY. But the home base for the 190 is Wayne!
Market Street lost all its 190s and the 161 to Wayne. Market Street operates the 171, 175, 178, 182, 702, 703, 704, 705, 707, 709, 712, 722, 742, 744, 746, 748, 758, & 770. As you can tell Madison Avenue closed it's door and gave its route to Market Street. From this also you can see that Community Coach lost the lions share of it's 700 route to Market Street too. Community Coach only has the 751, 752, 753, 755, 756, 762, 772, & 780 lines.
Hope this information helps you!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
call 1 888 NYCT BUS
I use this number all the time for information items
Got mines today. It is real nice. Got a couple pics of my favorite "new" buses.
B46M Limited
Now I remember. I recall a couple of years ago when the 190 was running out of the former Madison garage. The driver had said that there was no space to put the MCIs at the old Madison garage, so they used the Metro-B buses on the 190.
I also remember the brew-ha-ha over the ex-Community 700 (ex-P Series) lines being taken over by NJT a couple years ago. As I recall, NJT chose to take those 700s operated by Community and put it in house using part-timers from Market St. When the issue was before the NJT Board, there was a lot of displeasure from Community.
Im glad the 190 are getting new buses. The Flixibles are too small for our very very populated route. If the streets were larger some arcs might work on that route, but then that would mess things up at night.
Also the mci 9's are horrible. You sit smooched next to the person in the other seat. The Flixables are not like that.I was on one tonight and the ride was comfortable. Looking at the TRANSITALK webpage. I see the buses have armrests in the middle? That should do wonders to having your own space in the morning.
"Also the mci 9's are horrible."
I beg to differ. On the contrary, the oldest ones are almost 20 years old, but are still going strong and have a good deal of life left in them. Yes, they are outdated, look tired on worn out, and are in need of retirement from heavy-duty daily service.
But they are really sturdy and durable buses, considering that they have undergone merciless abuse almost every solitary day for the past 15-19 years and are still in respectable shape and still offer a comfortable and decent ride.
I am seriously considering purchasing one when I'm older, preferably a first-generation MC-9 (6000 series).
Not the ride really outside the fact that the drivers drive them at 50 miles and hour just the seating is very uncomfortable. My father is a bus driver i have been on 9's for years Passengers were never squeezed together. Your point is correct when u enter the bus lane and see buses broken down its always those Volvos.
Im glad the 190 are getting new buses. The Flixibles are too small for our very very populated route. If the streets were larger some arcs might work on that route, but then that would mess things up at night.
[The D4500s would be a perfect fit for the 190. Artics, on the other hand, might not see the 190 unless it was a rush hour tripper, since the only garages with suburban artics are Meadowlands and Fairview, and the 190 is out of Wayne.]
A rare older Phantom in WMATA livery was parked at Western Division this afternoon -- I saw the 30-foot ugly duckling parked between 40-foot Flxibles and Orions as I went to the sales office. I've never seen these units outside of Anacostia, so it was quite a rarity.
In other news, anyone know anything about WMATA's new SmartStudent passes? The requisite forms to buy them must be obtained from school offices, and WMATA has made them inordinately difficult to get ahold of -- although the program officially kicks off this month, no one has any forms yet!
Finally, have we all noticed the typo-laden DC Public Schools bus ad? As a DCPS student, I wasn't especially surprised, but the rest of you might get a chuckle: (all typos are DCPS's. can't believe they sent it to print like that. invest in a proofreader!):
DC PUBLIC SCHOOLS WANTS YOU !!!
COME TO CLASS - IT' A BLAST !!!
Again, all typos and omissions are their fault. Yikes!
Chris
Whoops. That subject should have read "sighted."
Slip o' the keys ...
C
The Metrobus Phantoms are pushing 13 years, so they might be getting ready to retire them.
Last time I was in DC, I went out of my way to go to Anacostia station to see these Phantoms in action. They actually looked great. Very clean, and sharp-looking in the Metrobus scheme. I get the feeling that WMATA does not like these buses too much, as they clearly have not been majorly rehabbed and there are only 20 of them. Proves our theories right that Gillig buses do not fare well at big city transit operations.
I have heard that WMATA was very close to buying a large fleet of 40-foot Phantoms some time in the early 90's, but the demo was such a POS that they canned the whole order. I don't know if the 5080's are the only buses to come of this, or if it was just a random order from Gillig rather than Flxible.
Save the 3900's, all of Metrobus's 30 foot buses are due for retirement. It shall be interesting to see what the replacements will be. Dare I recommend buying more 30-foot Phantoms for the Anacostia routes!
Neil
I think they would buy more Orions. It seems like they have as much as a commitment to orion now as they did with Flxible back then. Until I saw a list of all the buses that Metro-Bus had, I never knew that they owned Gillig Phantoms. Then, one day early in the morning when we (my family) were driving to the train station in DC to go back to Philly, I saw one in operation in the new scheme for the first time. It had thought those were new.
The Phantoms are 1988 models.
Also, Metrobus is not exactly commited to Orion. They recently announced a large procurement from New Flyer (a move long overdue in my opinion.)
From what I've heard, the Gilligs were purchased by the DC Government to be used specifically in the SE area of town. I think because at the time, SE (Anacostia, Barry Farms, etc.) had such crappy buses that these were to be used as circulators in the transit-deprived sections of town. The buses that used to operate there were notoriously the ones that had no heat, A/C and even were missing seats. Its strange that one ended up at Western. Maybe it was there for some type of maintenance. At the Arlington garage several months ago, I saw a Gillig there as well, along with a Ride-On (WMATA) Flxible Metro and several other random buses that don't normally belong there. They were off to the side longingly looking out of their cage.
It would be great to see some New Flyers floating around here. It will be good to have some new blood as the Orions are infiltrating the fleet.
The first eleven of WMATA's Gilligs are 1987 models, hence the "H" in their VIN numbers (H1081778, H10881783-81792) WMATA 5080-5090. The 5080 was actually painted in San Francisco Municipal Railway colors and used by them for a month as a demonstrator. (See how many SF Muni bought as a result? 0!)
The other nine are 1988's (5091-5099 are J1082223 and J1082215-82222).
The cancelled units of the WMATA order went to Island Transit (Coupeville/Whidbey Island, WA) -- 7 units, Bencica Transit (CA) -- 5 units, City of Eureka (CA) -- they ordered one of their own and got two of the WMAYA's), five were just not built and the serials are vacant.
The original order for these 30-foot Phantoms at WMATA was for 50 units!! After the first few were delivered, they cancelled the rest. Gillig managed to sell them off in very short order, so WMATA wasn't penalized. Some of the intended-for-WMATA units wound up with Island Transit (Whidbey Island, WA) and Benicia Transit (CA) among other places.
They DID have an order for 50 40-foot Phantoms in as well, and that was completely cancelled due to the experience with the 30-footers. The order had not been built yet, so the serial numbers were re-allotted to other Gillig customers.
Actually, I made a mistake in the figures.....the 30-foot Gillig WMAYA order was originally FORTY (40) units. Twenty-one (21) were delivered to WMATA and nineteen (19) went elsewhere after cancellation by WMATA. (I remember seeing them sit at Gillig's plant for a few months in WMATA colors and no lettering.)
I just saw a big article in the Metro section of the Washington Post about that ad on the buses with the spelling error. Apparantly, its on 75 buses and the contractor is working to get new ones out with the correct spellings. Metro said that the ad company is responsible for the placings of the ads and didn't catch the error either, but that they also may have thought that it was correct to be spelled wrong. Between that and the ads they are placing on buses and subways for legalizing Marijuana, it comes out to a good combination.
Uh oh! Could this be it? This evening 1/3, at 5:30pm I noticed 1740, 1747, 1752 and 1755 all parked in the yard not being used at all, along with 3833, a 3500 (I forgot which), 3874 and 3967. Only 1844 (my pick for the last 1982 coach in service) seemed to be on the road, all though I don't know what line it was on. It later pulled in.
Also, 9268 arrived in today and was already in service for the evening, with the Ulmer Park radio still in it which was not even working. I was shifting today and noticed that we now have 5 rows of Express buses (the normal is 3.) The foreman told me that the other 9200's should be coming in shortly and as soon as they are in, I don't have to tell you guys what will be shipping right out.
BIG AL
Bah ha ha ha! So long 1755! Your transmission will trouble you no more. As for my pick(s), PA1767 and PA1826 are still in service. They just need to get rid of pesky 1751, 1773, and 1852 and it'll be down to my two favorites.
Let me take a page from Gary here if I may...
X68-PA1767 Jason
X92-PA1826 Jason
So they're going. Like I said they g2g sometime. The buses at QV (1751 1767 1773 1852) from what I hear-just sit in the yard. They'll go out RARELY! 3807 3818 3824-wassup with them-do they do local service? Haven't seen or heard about these 3 being in service at all since the Orions came in. Jason like I said it's out with the old and in with the new. It's 2001! These buses are almost 20. They're gone once the other Novas get to Jamaica.
X64#9260Gary
Houstons RTS buses have a few months left. There's currently nothing coming in so there's nothing to replace them. I wouldn't be surprised if RTS 1903 (which I saw yesterday) made 20.
1826 was in service yesterday on the M-6 out of Hudson Depot
Thank You
Great! She'll be in service until March most likely.
M6-1826 Jason
Here is a 1st hand pic of MTA 128 with the DD50 Series Engine taken by Kevin Barsky:
This bus is residing at CAS Depot in SI. Enjoy!
X14#128Gary
www.transitworld.org
Time to bring her to Stengel along with the others. I personally like these coaches being out here.
flx7595
Guess BIG AL might know, but heard of an accident with a bus on Merrick Blvd and 107 Avenue in whch the b/o was pinned in the bus.
Any info on circumstances or condition of the operator?
What bus # was it and what line did this occur on?
Q5#5149Gary
gary,
If i knew i wouldnt be asking. I had my radio tuned to the 103 PCT and the time, and all i heard was "Central, confirmed pin, bus driver, NYC transit bus, Merrick and 107....."
Ok , here's the scoop. I want to begin by saying this is strictly what I heard, and may not be what actually happened, all though I believe it is pretty close if not on target.
At about 1am, there was a line up of buses waiting to pull in. 4353 was the last bus on the line. Each bus moved up one by one. When it was time for 4353 to move up, the operator released the ICC (parking)brake and the bus shot off. It struck 9072 in the rear, causing 9072 to hit the bus in front of it (number unknown.) That bus then hit the bus in front of it (again, number unknown) Meanwhile 4353, after hitting 9072 pinned the operator into a position where he could not hit the brake, since the dashboard and steering wheel were crushed up against his body, the bus careened off the right side of 9072, and plowed into 6 cars sitting along a fence outside the guard booth, severely damaging all the cars before the bus came to a stop. EMS had to get called for the operator to get cut out of 4353. Her steering wheel had to be cut out!
4353 is now totally demolished in the front and was scrapped. It still has to be evaluated for mechanical failure and is currently roped off.
9072 is severely damaged in the engine compartment. The engine is actually crushed in along with all the components. The entire rear and sides are wrecked. The front of 9072 suffered minor damage also with 2 broken windshields and front bumper damage. It will be out of service for a long time if it can be repaired at all since the entire engine compartment is destroyed. The other 2 unknown buses were towed out to Stengel depot. Condition of them is unknown. One is a 4000 and the other is a Nova. Condition of the operator in 4353 is unknown at this time but I should have more info on this unfolding story by tomorrow.
BIG AL
I certainly hope the driver of 4353 is OK; that sounds like it was a real mess.
4353 was too badly damaged to have its front module replaced, or was it just not considered because of its age?
Not considered strictly because of it's age. I believe only an 8000 or newer bus (1990 and up) would have a module replacement at this time with all the new buses coming in to replace the old ones.
BIG AL
Based on an E-mail from Bernie Lopez, the Bernie's Bus Depot site will be shut down by the host on 1/31/01. Don't know if it will be revived on another host. Bernie can still be reached at Bernie @ discomusic.com.
Its a shame that a great site is going bye-bye.
I know runs in the 300 and 400 series are miscellaneous runs (Qns/SI)
I believe runs like 701 and etc are 'as assigned' runs
What is a 500 series run????
I never saw it b4.
Any dispatchers have an idea???
That would be X1 on the Q46. X pieces are also known as #500 runs. Most operators usually just put the X on the run number sign but some put it in as 501 or higher depending on the X piece. It's possible the run #'s might have been hard to change. Sometimes the wheels get very stiff, so the operator just put it under a 500 since that was easier to display other than having to turn it all the way down to the "X".
BIG AL
Saw orion 274 out of casey newly repowered, painted and with LEd tailights.
And still with an old advertisement (Georgi Vodka) on the rear
Some others include 298 (old sign in front) and 285 (not a repower, but with a mail.com ad in front) because she sat so long idle.
Guess those Orion coaches are gonna go bye bye as these new repowered Orions return.
Flx7595
Greetings,
I am a reporter for my community newspaper, and I am doing a story about a transit bus that our police department has transformed into an "emergency mobile command center." We are a suburb of Memphis, Tenn., and the police bought the bus just as it went out of service with the area transit agency. I am trying to find out what type of bus it is, and hopefully even what year model it is. Not being an expert, and since no one at the police station knew, I wanted to ask you guys for some help in ID'ing it.
Anyway, I included the three photos I took of the bus. The center pic is linked to a higher-resolution image stored on my server, and hi-res versions of either other picture are available on request (my server disk quota wouldn't allow all of them to be posted).
If you have a guess at the type of bus, please help me out!
I'd really appreciate it.
--Brandon Bostian, Reporter
The Bartlett Express...Your Hometown Newspaper
bwb@midsouth.rr.com
P.S.--If David Pirman, or any other webmaster, is interested in these pix for their website, please let me know. I can resize them for your need, and would love to help out. --BWB
Sorry, I forgot to mention that the manufacturer is, I think, AM General. I saw that name on a placard on the front of the bus, hidden by the generator the police department added.
Sorry,
Brandon Bostian
The front windsheild and header panel look like it could be a GMC from the 1970's, otherwise known as a "fishbowl". But I've never seen an overhang like that on one of those buses, unless it was custom built onto the top of it. Too bad you didn't include a picture of the back. That would help us out alot also.
BIG AL
It looks like an AM General bus. These were made by American Motors in the early 70's to the late 70's. After that, New Flyer Industries of Canada took over production of the vehicle. The biggest purchaser of these vehicles was the Washington Area Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, who bought over 600 of them. I believe LA was the second largest purchaser of them.
There is a really nice description of these buses on www.omot.org.
That is definately an AM General,in the late 70's Steinway(now Queens Surface)purchased 10 of these .They were used mainly in express service.I however caught in about 82/83 on the Q101 to 2nd Ave/E59th Street.It was either 404 or 409.
New Flyer Industries of Canada did NOT "take over production" from AM General.
Flyer Industries of Winnipeg, Manitoba designed the body. They licensed American Motors to build it in the USA under the AM General brand, which also made postal vehicles, etc. in Mishawaka, Indiana. The first demonstrators were actually shells made in Winnipeg and shipped to Mishawaka. The last AM Generals were built for Southern California Rapid Transit District in Los Angeles, around 1977-1978.
Flyer continued to build buses in Winnpieg the entire time AM General was building them in Mishawaka. And in 1985, Flyer Industries (which was having financial problems) was bought by the Van Den Oudsten Group, and the "new" company was called New Flyer Industries.
I may be misunderstanding something in your post Steve but the last AMG's weren't built for the SCRTD from the info I have in front of me. Last serials were 000545 for Altoona (model 9635B), 000198 for Pittsburgh (model 10235B), 000451 for Memphis (model 9640B) and 001585 for Seattle (model 10240B). These were all built after the SCRTD order of 10240B's (serials 000711-000910) that started delivery in 6/77 with 8 orders from other properties following the SCRTD order for the 10240B model.
RDChilds
Thanks for clearing it up. At any rate, no matter who made it, it was a very ugly bus and I cringed ever time I had to take one here in DC. I wish nobody designed it.
No, it is NOT a GM "fishbowl". It is an AM General.
It's an AM General. Most likely model 9640B-8 from the serial range of 000442-000451 which were purchased by the Memphis Area Transit Authority (TN) and numbered 244-253. These were built in 1978. As you said your in a suburb of Memphis and it was bough from the local system, this would fit. You can check out the AM General production lists and a brief history of AM General on the Ohio Museum of Transportation's web site at www.omot.org
RDChilds
Today I wait for the N21 to Flushing. It's the 3:19pm bus. I waited and waited but it never came. Next bus is at 3:41pm, but it don't show till after 4pm, after waiting for about 45 minutes in the cold for the bus.
Driver said there was a breakdown, the 3:19 broke down and she had to get another bus because that broke down.
We had 184 and she was running horrible, noisy and very slow.
An N20 pulls in ahead of us at Roslyn, but after Clock tower he zoomed ahead (with his new bus) and left people at alot of the stops to wait for our bus, already late. We just kept picking up more migrants, more, and then even more. And the back door gets stuck and won't close and the riders are too stupid to know what's going on and fix it. We were SRO by Plandome road, and when we pulled into Great Neck there were two Flushing bound buses already there picking up. That ride took about 45 minutes from Sea Cliff to Great Neck. I was glad to get off that packed Cummins. The afternoon N20/21 buses were all off schedule, and lines had gotten so bad at Great Neck a supervisor was sent there by the time I was ready to leave. I asked him what the heck was going on. He said that there was only one lane in each direction on Northern Blvd in Queens due to snow removal. This was definately poor planning by the city, which could've done this late at night. But instead from what he told me Northern was a parking lot in Queens. Glad I did not go to Flushing today.
He told me that he was at the 3:19 breakdown which died near the LIE and Glen Cove Rd while OOS, he said the bus was restarted again (a diesel Orion) and put in service at Plandome.
He also said the Cummins buses are breaking down alot, and said "Detroit is a better engine" when asked about how the new buses are doing.
Combine traffic jams with a low budget bus operation and you get a nightmere. And I'm really starting to loose my patience.
It could be worse ,they still could be using Gillags.
They are? Trevor's roster doesn't list any so it might be gone. Bus 184 is some sort of Orion CNG with crappy Cummins engine.
They are not running Gillags anymore.Plus almost all of MSBA(excuse me LIBus)Orion V CNG's have Cummins in them
The newest delivery of model 2000 Orions numbered 288 and above use the Detroit Series 50 CNG version. Runs a hell of a lot better than the Cummins.
I had 319 on the N20 a week before X-mas and I thought the engine sounded like a Cummins not a DD.
Can anyone provide me with any information and pictures of New Jersey suburban bus companies (companies and routes between New York City and New Jersey communities)and routes from 1945 to the inception of New Jersey Transit? If you are unable to provide any information, could you direct me to any organization, books, magazines that could provide me with this information?
Here is a good page that will get you started,
DAVE MACKEYS PUBLIC SERVICE PAGES
Peace,
ANDEE
Yes, Dave Mackey's Site is superb for the 1945 on up years for NJ Suburban Routes.
Dave Mackey's Public Service Page
You can also check out my site for the more recent stuff.
. Do a search on the main page for what every companies you are looking for and If I have it, it should come up in your search inquery!
More Blessings!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Yes, Dave Mackey's Site is superb for the 1945 on up years for NJ Suburban Routes.
Dave Mackey's Public Service Page
You can also check out my site for the more recent stuff.
TransiTALK. Do a search on the main page for what every companies you are looking for and If I have it, it should come up in your search inquery!
More Blessings!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I had a nice surprise last night on the Q44 - RTS #4448 on the Orion-dominated route! I almost stayed on to take the rare opportunity of riding an RTS across the Whitestone, but thought better of it. BTW, is it relatively common to have an RTS run or two on an Orion route? I can't say that I've ever seen an RTS in service on the Q20 or 44.
Taking that as a sign, I decided to go '82 RTS-hunting on Hillside Avenue :). I saw what I could have sworn to be 1757 going in the opposite direction; it must have been 1752, though. I did catch 1755 on the Q17 and rode it from 182 St to 73 Ave. It stalled out at Union Turnpike, but started right up again. The pickup seemed pretty good, but lotsa rattles when it hit bumps. A small child got on and remarked to his mother, "ooh, these seats are comfy." It's always nice to see some appreciation for the old workhorses.
With apologies to Gary,
Q44#4448Mike
Q17#1755Mike
That's ok Mike-I rode those same 2 buses a few weeks ago. 1755 on the X64 which did NOT stall out ONCE-that's why I liked that bus so much. And 4448 on the Q13. I did feel out of place though-all the other buses around me were Orions. But at least you g2 ride on 1755 when you did. BTW What run was 1755 on on the Q17? Another point: since a few buses are in the hole due to that accident yesterday, Jamaica may be doing this a little more often. Expect the unexpected.
Q17#9551Gary
Sorry; I didn't get the run number. I got on at 180 St about 8:10 PM, if that helps.
So, with the damaged buses out of service, maybe the '82s (and/or the disappearing '84s-'85s) will get to "live" a little longer? And you shouldn't have felt out of place on 4448; you should feel superior!
I Went On 1755 One Time When It Was At QV On The Q46 In The Summer Of 1999 At 6:55PM. The AC Was On And The AC Was On Full Blast that the bus got a little cold at least. But good enouth to cool down from the summer's heatwave. I Got on that bus in font of Caldor(Now K-mart)In Glen Oaks. It Was Starting To Get Dark At That Time. But I Never Saw 4448 Yet. But That Tells Me About what I Saw 1745 On X32 In December 2000. Crossing The Whitestone Bridge. That Bus Look Like It Was New Or Someting.
1755 on the Q46 in the summer of 1999? I don't think so! This bus has been at Jamaica depot for the last several years, and a 1700 was never used as a swap bus for a local route. Even in the extremely slight chance that it was a swap, it could only have been with one of the lines that pull into the 165th st. terminal. The Q46, as you know, is nowhere near there. Also, if it was a swap and wound up pulling into Q.V. depot, they would never have sent it back out, especially to do service on a local route. Sorry, but you must have the bus # wrong. I can't see anyway possible how that could have been 1755 on the Q46.
BIG AL
The only possible scenerio I can come up with would be a Jamaica x63 or x64 involved in the swap, and that seems highly unlikely, since at that time, the bus would have been full of passenegers returning from Manhattan, not to mention a Jamaica X B/O having to sit with a QV bus. Something doesn't sound right about this, but it's all I can think of! Are you sure it was 1755? If you are sure, I'd love to know how it wound up making a live trip on the Pike.
QV
To Tell You This.
1755 was at QV for the summer of 1999. Then went back to JAMAICA The rest of the time. 1755 Replace a TMC 8300's seres bus that broke down on Lakeville Rd. 1755 have A QV logo on the right side and on the left side too.
To Tell You This.
1755 was at QV for the summer of 1999. Then went back to JAMAICA The rest of the time. 1755 Replace a TMC 8300's seres bus that broke down on Lakeville Rd. 1755 have A QV logo on the right side and on the left side too. And I Saw the Same bus 1755 on the X68 on A weekday in the summer of 1999.
I'm sorry, but I can't believe it was 1755. I work drill tricks regularly and have done so for the last several years, so I always have a current depot roster sheet of Jamaica depot's buses. That's how I'm always able to help out Q5Merrick with Jamaica's bus movements. The 1700s in particular were some of the buses I payed close attention to and I know for a fact that 1755 was never taken from the roster at any time. I know 4349 & 4355 left for a while and went to Jackie Gleason but came back again, but certainly not the 1700s.
BIG AL
Orion5#135 is smoking something. Bus 1755 spent ALL of its 19 years in Jamaica Depot. It is the only RTS bus in Queens to spend its entire lifespan in one depot. It never went to QV, it never went to FLU/Stengel--it just stayed in JAM. I am usually all over Queens bus movements. I would have known if 1755 was rolling around with QV logos, and it wasn't. For that matter, QV's 8300s were always there, too (ex-QV's 8340-8351, 8353-8354 were moved to MaBSTOA depots in 1993). So, I don't know what he's talking about. Heck, HE doesn't know what he's talking about!
Mark
I Don't Smoke. I Just got mix up with 1755 and one of the 1800's in QV. One of 1800's from QV on the Q46 But I Saw 1755 On Q17. Anyway.
It was Just A Joke about seeing 1755 On The Q46 And with QV Logos on 1755.
bad joke
Me 2. Myabe he had it confused with 1765 because she was on the Pike at 1 time-I remember riding 1765 there-NOT 1755! The 8300s to most are the best buses in the fleet at QV. And I usually get 1 on the Pike almost everyday. Yesterday I had 8362 and 8376 both pretty good. The day before I had 8359 and 8364. QV BO definitely knows what I'm talking about. Here's 1 of my favorite ones:
Q46#8391Gary
Other ones that are really good:
8356-not sure about her last time I rode her-she was a good one
8358 8361 8363 8368 8372 8384 8387 8390 8394 8396
Be on the lookout for these posts-lol!
QV would NOT swap for a JAM bus on the Pike. I've seen 8939 on the Q20B and Q76-you'd see a CS swap for a JAM. I remember seeing 4566 on the Q44 1 time. Also 4591 on the Q28. If QV is short on a bus on the Pike-the worst scenario will be to use a 600 Orion Coach over there. And it has been done. A few weeks ago, I saw 614 on the Q75. That same day, an Orion was on the Q46-run 030 I believe he/she had bus 617. And BIG AL posted a while back that 613 was on the Q2.
The 1700s will only go out if it's absolutely desperate. See my next post about the 1982 Suburban RTS Contest.
Q44#8939Gary
Q46#614Gary
Yesterday afternoon around 5:15, Orion #136, an express route refugee, pulled up at Main Street between 38th and 39th Avenues to begin a Q14 run. Judging from the very long line, and the fact that a crowded Q20A or B (which duplicates much of the 14) had just pulled out of the adjacent stand, the previous 14 must not have showed up. Angry testimony from people at the front of the line reinfoced this theory.
In less than a minute, every soft, padded seat was taken and the extremely narrow aisle was completely taken up with standees. The driver kept telling us to move back, and when he was informed that there was no standing room, he had to pull out, leaving ONE person. We couldn't pick up anybody at the next two stops, Main & Northern and Union & 35th, which led to much cursing from the people outside and at least one snowball.
Two people attempted to get off at Union & Bayside, but the people standing in the aisles either wouldn't or couldn't move aside to make room for them person to get to the door. More people got off at Union & 28th, but it took several minutes for them to negotiate the aisle and the people who had to move outside the door to get back in.
One senior citizen snarled "They've got no #&$*@#^$# business running these #$%@#>& express buses on local routes when it's this crowded!" The driver agreed, and said he would report this situation.
TA buses have double seaters on one side of the aisle, singles on the other, which makes for wider aisles. Funny, but Orions and Novas on DOT franchise routes have double seaters on both sides, and there's plenty of room for passengers to manuever. Does express-style seating take up that much more room than the standard plastic buckets?
If Stengel is going to continue to run Orion 100s on local routes, they'd better keep them off 'crowded' routes, which would just leave the Q74- if even that.
Yes, Express/Suburban/Coach Seats take up more room than standard transit seats.
The average transit seat is 36" wide while the suburban seats normally ranges from 39-44". The TA's seat for the express lines are 41". So yes, you do loose alot of standee room, while for the DOT privates it ranges. The Classics have 41" wide seats while the Orion Express Coaches have 39" wide seat, you can definately feel the difference.
Hope this information helps you!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Once the 1993 Orions return from repowering, what will happen to 121-124 and 129-146? Will they go back to CAS? Or will they stay at CS? I would assume that CS will keep buses 101-117 and 119. I think they should get returned because they should not be run on local lines-too crammy and uncomfortable. But at the same time, CS will be back to where they were again-short on buses. So we shall soon see what happens.
Q74#136Gary
they could aslo remove the seats and make it a hard seat bus. that way, nobody complains.
Are your express buses 96" or 102" wide? Maybe an extra 6" of width could make a little difference.
ALL NYCTs are 102
MBTA route 32 between Forest Hills and Wolcott Sq (Readville) is a lot like that, especially with school kids taking the bus to Forest Hills competing with the workers who want to get to their jobs before anyone else. In the morning and the evening, it's easier to spend $8 to take a cab home, rather than subject yourself to the eerie claustrophobia that is the 32, especially after the Orange Line lets out. But the best thing is that once the bus passes American Legion Highway, the bus is practically empty.
While I agree that its deathly crowded during rush hour (Bus #131 on the Q28 was horrible to get out from) from a passenger standpoint - it's good to have these buses in service - one of the few "perks" non express bus commuters get after a daily grind and no seat on the subway. I hope the buses stay where they are, and I hope 118,120, 125 and 128 are brought over also. I am noticing the return of the repowered buses so maybe the Orions are almost done. Who knows.
Tonight - 115 on the Q12 was a nice, rush hour, uncrowded ride.
Flx7595
They've been running the 100's on the Q76 as well. I saw two of them yesterday.
I agree with you 100%. Express buses do not belong on local routes. At 126th Street Depot we have former express coaches 3804 & 3810. These buses cause nothing but headaches to the operator to whom they are assigned. First you must constantly answer the same stupid questions over and over again: "What kind of bus is this?" "Is this a new type of bus?" "Why does it have these kind of seats?" Secondly, you have the problem of people boarding and then immediately trying to exit because they think they have gotten on the wrong bus. Last but not least you have the problem of capacity during rush hour. With it's two abreast seating and narrow aisles the bus tends to fill up quickly thus stranding many an unhappy person at the bus stop.
If the TA is not planning on using these buses in express service or converting them to hard seaters then they should just save everyone a lot of aggravation and scrap the damn things!
Amybody have info on Greyhound's schedule changes which take effect next week? The round trip Boston fare (from New Britain, CT) will be pretty steep from what I hear. Thanx! :>
i just checked on greyhound's website: www.greyhound.com.... there is a change in service beginning next week which will reduce the number of regular schedules going from new britain to boston each day... as far as fares goes, it doesn't show any difference in fare two weeks from now and right now... a round trip ticket is still $54.
Lately, there's been much talk on the older buses in service from everyone's favorite SE Queens depot, Jamaica Jamaica. Here's my take on the situation...
With 4353 gone and possibly 9072, they'll just replace them with Novas. The 4000 that was damaged will be scrapped and the Nova will be repaired. These four buses will not have a major impact on what is seen on the road.
The Ulmer Park Novas don't really spell the end of the 1982 Coaches, mainly because they're not even being used on the express lines, but instead are in local service. They've already had more than enough express buses to ship out these old horses. With the 1985-86s being scrapped like there's no tomorrow the 1700s may be running for another three weeks or so.
PA1755 needs a little help. If she had to be towed back to the depot, I doubt she'd ever see the light of day again. She may be scrapped just for the fact she stalled last night. Oh well.
Good news for 9072 and the 1700s, which should make RTS2150 a happy camper. 9072 will be repaired. They already started working on the front windshields but I don't know who's going to fix the engine compartment. The other 2 unknown buses I mentioned on 1/4 were 4561 and 4567. (One was not a Nova) They have already been repaired as they only had minor damage to the rear bumpers and engine doors. 4353 is totally destroyed and already has had her markings, radio and farebox removed. However we are still several local buses short. So the 1700's will be staying around for a while, however they are no longer to be used for express service. Mainly now for local service only. (But don't be suprised if one makes a guest appearance on an express route every now and then) I still did not find out the condition of the operator of 4353 and hopefully will know by early next week. The rest of the story I mentioned about the accident seems to be holding up. Only the type of one of the buses involved was incorrect. And it turns out they were not towed to Stengel after all.
BIG AL
Could the b/o possibly pulled up the ICC, removed his foot from the brake, then seeing 9072 move up, puts his foot accidentally on the gas thinking its the brake, pushes down the ICC and thats how they shot off into the rear of 9072??
Last week I reported here that JAM was planning to retain 1755, 3573, 3575 and 3967 for local service. This move will replace scrapped buses 4119, 4139 and 4355. Since then, bus 4129 has been teetering on the edge of "Scrapville", I think there is a major issue with 4591 (maybe BIG AL can confirm that), 4353 is now history, and 9072 will be spending most of its time in ENY Base Shop for a new engine. BIG AL is right--it appears as though ALL the 1982's will be running for quite some time. SOMEONE CALL UP NIMCO SCRAP YARD AND TELL THEM TO BRING BACK 1746!!!
Mark
Bring back 1746? I don't know about that. Granted we're in a jam right now (get it, jam for Jamaica!) but I don't think we're that desperate to have to bring back 1746. The new windshields have been installed on 9072 but the front bumper and assemblies are laying on the floor and the engine compartment has not been touched. I hear the engine block is cracked and shoved back into the bus with the chassis bent. The operator is in fair condition with glass in one eye and a swollen forehead but he should recover, however T/A is already grilling him and will be grilling him some more as N.T.S.B. found nothing wrong with the bus. Nobody seems to know exactly how the accident happened but one operator who was in service driving along Merrick and 107ave at the time of the accident claims 4353 was sitting on Merrick blvd because the line was so long. The theory among the operators is that when the line moved up, it only moved a very short way. Then 4353 whipped around the corner very fast but wasn't looking ahead, but instead had his eyes on the right side mirror because cars from an auto body shop are sitting right on the very edge of the corner, and if you are not careful, your rear R/S side of the bus will clip a car which has happened several times already. But he didn't realize that 9072 was very close in front of him, so he slammed into the back of it, pinning his legs against the steering wheel so he could not hit the brake, bounced off the right side, drove along the sidewalk by the fence hitting 1 car sitting along the fence, then slamming into 6 cars sitting by the guard booth. (As I said, that is only our theory about the mirror)
4567 is already back in service but 4561 is still sitting in the shop with it's engine door and back bumper off. It should be repaired by Monday or Tuesday. Will post more news as it comes.
BIG AL
4567 is the bus with the strange-looking windows? Thank God nothing MAJOR happened to her. 4561 should not be o/s for long. But all of this bad luck like BIG AL has said has brought some good news: the 1700s get to run longer. They should get some RTS from KB or GH-like QV got-to substitute for the buses lost at Jamaica this past week.
Q88#4175Gary
Conspiracy Theory:
Isn't it odd that not long after you all decided to scrap perhaps the best bus to ever grace NYC (yes, that's right PA1746), all these "mishaps" with the newer buses occured? Also, after 3881 and 3870 (new paint job and all) got the DECAL STRIPPING OF DOOM~ the 1985s have been floundering? I bet JAM said: "Hey, we've been able to scrap a bus that looks like it came from Michigan last week, why not go for the gold and try to scrap ALL of the 1985s!?" Their cruel, nd inhumane actions continue to this day. Meanwhile 1746 and all the ohter dearly departed 1982 RTS coaches get revenge from....BEYOND THE NIMCO SHREDDER~!
(Scary Music)
Ok ok, so I'm bored. Is that such a crime!?
I forgot to mention about 4129 and 4591 as per Mark's post.
4129 I believe has been repaired. I saw it sitting in what we call the "blue room" waiting to be cleaned up.
4591 is sitting on the defect line, behind 4119, with damage by the rear door. I heard one of the rookies was making a right turn, didn't pay enough attention and caught it on a tractor trailer. This happened a couple of weeks ago from what I heard. I saw the bus yesterday and it's bad, but not very bad. The frame where the door is, is bent and the panel over the right rear wheel is off, so it should be repaired but for some reason they are not touching it, but the bus isn't being scrapped either. Maybe they can't decide what to do, but 4591 is one of our best 4000's so I hope it is repaired.
4119 is just sitting on the decfect line also not being touched.
The last few weeks, Jamaica depot has really had some bad luck with it's buses, especially the 4000's. Hopefully 2001 will be a little better, but for now it looks like the only buses that are benifiting from all this are the 1700's which aren't going anyplace anytime soon.
BIG AL
So how long will it take to repair 9072? Is the bus that badly damaged? 4591 is a good unit-I've rode on her on the Q17 a few times.
4129 Haven't had her yet. I did have 4139 before she was scrapped-she was so-so but not good enough. 4353 was a slow unit in my opinion. 4354 is another "turtle" so in a way I'm happy 4353 is gone. Hopefully as I return to SJU this week, I hope to get 1755 on the Q17. I'll keep you posted.
Q17#1755Gary
Nothing to salivate over. Just letting anybody who's interested to know that 4119 was scrapped and shipped out today. I believe 4591 may also have been scrapped and shipped out. It is no longer in the depot but I did not see it stripped of the markings. I will verify where it went tomorrow. Also, 1844 and 1755 were both working express routes today for all you 1982 coach buffs. I don't think our "last 1982 coach in service" contest is going to end anytime soon. And since there is not much mention about Q.V. depot on bustalk, I might as well state their 1982 coaches don't seem to be shipping anyplace either.
BIG AL
BIG AL, you're right about the 1982 RTS Suburbans. I saw 1751 on run 032 on the Q46 this morning-looked pretty good. But there's also another oddity to add here. While waiting for the Q17 on 188 St and Union Tpke, I saw an Orion appear. I thought it could've been a Stengel Orion Out of Service. Its lights were on and there were passengers on board. I thought it may have been a place-in on the Q17-WRONG again. I took out my camera-thinking who the heck is this? It was 614 on the Q75. I was like OH NO!!! They're doing the same at QV as they are at CS-Express Buses on local lines! I took 2 pics of 614-front and back-(they'll be scanned within the week). I had to wait for the Q17-otherwise I would've rode on her. So 2 minutes later, my Q17 arrived-it was 4127. Had pretty good speed but it's bound to go-was very squeaky and rattling. Also, I took a trek down to Jamaica Ave where I saw 4130 awaiting service on the Q85. I hope to see 3573, 3575, 3833, 3874 or 3967 on the Q17 real soon!!!
Q17#3833Gary
Oh also add this to the Express Buses on Local Lines list:
119 129 Q32.
107 Q74
More to come tomorrow.
Q74#107Gary
Hello.
I Tell You Something All Right.
I Got On 1755 On The Q17 On One Hot Summer Weekend In July 1998. When I Was Comming Out Of KMart I Cross 188 St To Get To The Bus Stop. Then A Few Minute's Later.1755 Came I Went On It I Took It To Union Turnpike. Then I Got On 1855 When I Was Comming Home From Caldor In Glen Oaks Shopping Center In Queens. I Went On 1855 On One Summer Weekend In July 1999. Then I Saw A Orion5 #135 From CS On The Q74. I Went On It on One Cold Thursday In October 2000. First I Think That The CS Depot Orion5 With High Back Seats Run Only On X51 And X32.
Come To Think I Saw 2 More In November 2000 And 1 More In December 2000. I Think These Buses Also Run The Q32 Or Maybe Q44.
Dominick.
Is 3870 still there? If it is, why don't they just put her back in service? It seems you all need as many buses as you can get. They've probably taken some parts off of her by now. Oh well. It still wou;d've been nice to see that brand new paint job though.
3870 shipped out a while ago, a little after 1746 & 3881 left. I would have snapped a picture of 3870, but I would have to have used my flash, and I really didn't want to do that because the foreman would see it and wonder what I'm doing and probably report it to supervision upstairs and I would rather not put myself in a mess over really nothing at all. I would say that for the next few weeks, or even months, you guys will be seeing quite a few express buses doing local service as we are short of local buses right now, yet have an abundance of express buses.
BIG AL
42 st bet 5 and 9 Av
49 and 50 st bet 5 and 6 av
7 Av bet 34 and 57 st
Broadway bet 34 and 57 st
8 Av between 34 and 48 st
M6 SB
regular to 57 st,,East on 57 st,5 Av,34 st WB,to Brodaway and head SB
M7 SB South on Columbus Av,to 9 Av,to 34 St EB to Broadway and Regular
M10 SB
regular to 66 st,Columbus Av,9 Av,34 St EB,7 av,and Regualr
(releifs at 9 av and 42 )
M10 NB
regular to 34 st,10 av,50 st,8 AV NB and regualr ( Reliefs at 10 av and 42 st)
M20 NB via Regular to 34 st,10 AV,50 St EB,8 AV NB,
regular (Releifs at 10 av and 42st)
M20 SB via regular to 66 st,COlumbus,9 Av,34 st,7 Av,,regular (reliefs at 9 av and 42)
M16 WB
regualr to 8 av,,west to 10 Av,42 st EB to 9 AV and terminate
M16 EB
South on 9 Av and regular
M42 WB
regular to 5 Av,,34 st,10 av,42 st WB and reg
M42 EB reg to 9 av,34 st,Madison Av, 42 st EB and regualr
M27 WB Regualr to Madison ,57 st,,9 Av,42 S WB to take stand
(Releifs at 9 av and 42 st)
M27 EB
from Temp Stand via West on 42 st,10 av,57 st,5 av,50 st,and regular
(reliefs at 9 av and 42 st)
M50 WB
regular to Madison Av ,57 st, 9 av,to 49 st, and regualr
M50 EB
regular route to 10 av,57 st,,5 av,50 st,and regular
M104 Southbound
regular to 57 st,,5 av,42 st EB and regular
M104 NB
regular to 6 av,57 st,8 av, and regular
X1 Southbound
south on 7 Av,57 st,5 Av,,and regular
Flatbush Av bet Plaza St and Empire Blvd
Eastern Parkway bet GAP and Washington St
Vanderbilt Av bet GAP and Plaza St
B41 Cadman Plaza
via Flatbush Av,Empire Blvd,Washington Av,Prospect Place,Flatbush Av and Regualr
B41 Kings Plaza
Flatbush Av,Left on Park Pl.R on Washington Av,R on Empire BNlvd ,Left on Flatbush Av
B69 Sands St
Via 8 Av,L on Flatbush Av,R on Carlton Av,R on Park Place,,Left on Vanderbilt Av and reg
B69 19 St
via Vanderbilt av,Right on Sterling Place,,Left on 7 av,l on 9 street,,R on PPWest ,,and reg
B71 Van Brunt St
via Eastern Pwy ,R on Washington Av,L on Sterling place, l on 7 av,,R on UNion St and reg\
B71 Rogers Av
via Union st,L on 8 Av,L on Flatbush av,,R on Carlton Av,Right on Park Place,,Right ON washington Av,Left on Eastern Parkway and reg
Just be lucky that the detours lasted for a couple of hours where you're at. Down here in Philly, The "Freaks And Geeks" (excuse me, The Mummers') Parade completely tied up bus service for eight hours straight, and SEPTA cancelled holiday trolley service, which was a bummer. And my only other option of getting around was taking The Market-Frankford El, and God, I hate taking that line anymore since they got rid of The Almond Joys (more of this on Sub Talk), so Thank you Mummers' for nothing but screwing up my day. One more thing, Gangsta Rap is more like music than string band music (string band music is really annoying).
The holiday trolley only ran to december 31, not after the New Year, so that wasn't effected by the mummers parade at all.
At least SEPTA warns Philadelphians of detours. There have been times when there have been parades in West Chester, and SEPTA didn't even bother to post detour notices. The worst of these times is the annual Halloween parade, which is always held on a Thursday, and which blocks the two main east-west streets into and out of the borough - Gay St (westbound into West Chester) and Market St (eastbound out of town). Plus, High St (main N-S street in West Chester) is also blocked off. Needless to say, it's a mess. Factor in that it's the tail end of rush hour, and you have a lot of confused bus drivers.
The Fire Police (I don't know what you call them in NYC and it's suburbs - probably Auxiliary Police) don't know where to send the buses. One driver on the 119 had to make a detour down High St and onto US 202 North instead of being able to take Market St to Paoli Pk to US 202 South to PA 3 and on route to Granite Run Mall and Chester. I tried to tell this Fire Police officer of a quicker detour, but to no avail.
Then again, SEPTA usually treats Chester County like a rotten step-child when it comes to service improvements and detour announcements. When the chairman of the SEPTA board is from Bucks County, it doesn't help much either. (If you weren't aware, SEPTA just added a ton of new service to Bucks County and have been promoting it ad nasuem; meanwhile Chester County was promised a new circutlator in the Exton area about 3-4 years ago, and they're just getting around to it this spring. Not only that, there have been some changes and new routes in Chester County in the past two years which have been poorly promoted.)
What routes are in Chester County? What exactly are Fire or Auxiliary Police?
Chester County has the following routes:
R5 Paoli/Thorndale RRD Line
92 - West Chester to Exton Mall
99 - Norristown to King of Prussia, Phoenixville, Royersford, and Pottstown
104 - 69 St Terminal to West Chester
105 - 69 St Terminal to Paoli
118 - King of Prussia to Chester via Paoli
119 - West Chester to Chester via Cheyney
124 - Center City to King of Prussia Chesterbrook (limited to Chesterbrook)
133 - Exton Mall to King of Prussia (this was split from the 92 in November)
204 - Lionville to Paoli Rail Station
206 - Great Valley to Paoli Rail Station
208 - Chesterbrook to Strafford Rail Station
314 - Boothwyn to West Chester and Studio Park
The 119, 206, 208, and 314 operate weekdays only. Only recently has SEPTA extended Sunday service to Phoenixville. Up until that point, the only seven day a week service into the county was the 104; R5 trains end at Paoli on Sundays (though a couple go to Malvern). I still count the 92 and 133 as one line, even though they were foolishly split up this past November.
The point of my post is that service out here seems to be added at a slower rate than what occurs in Montgomery and Bucks Counties, since that seems to be where the power on the SEPTA Board lies.
As for Fire Police, they are members of the local volunteer fire company who are responsible for directing traffic at fire scenes or parade routes.
I was reading the Boston Herald today, and an article in there put a huge smile on my face.
Over the past few weeks, the MBTA has been negotiating for a manufacturer to get a fleet of non-diesel buses. The MBTA reached a deal with NABI to receive 124 low floor CNG buses (40LFW), which will be distributed most likely to the city garages (Bennett/Charlestown, Bartlett, Cabot) so they can send their 1986-87 RTS 04s to the suburban garages (Quincy, Lynn, Fellsway). This will spell the end of the 1984-85 RTSs. (There is a rumor that once the Arborway garage is fully rebuilt, it will be an all CNG facility, but they're also trying to bring back the E-Arborway trolleys.)
If the delivery of these buses is successful, Boston will probably get more from NABI, including a set of 60 ft artics. We're supposed to get a fleet of 358 buses, all with non-diesel fuels.
Addendum...to read the entire article, point your browser to...
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_regional/cng01052001.htm.
Are you from Boston? I am disappointed by the news, but whats done is done. Maybe you or someone can get a recording of the Boston RTS 6v71N so I can hear it. Now that 84-85 RTS are going to be gone, why are you smiling? You should be crying. LOL
Well, ever since we got rid of the Flyer D901s in 1995, we (the MBTA) has nothing but RTSs! I was extremely happy that the MBTA got a different bus manufacturer, and I wasn't wishing for their demise! And the engine is 6V71TA, while the newer buses were the 6V92TA (I will try to record it, but don't hold me to it)
The 84-85 RTSs were rebuilt in 1992, but now they're showing their age, a lot like the RTSs back in NYC that everyone talks about. When the T got their order of 400 RTSs in 1995, they sent the buses from the city garages (i.e. the buses that serve Boston and Cambridge) to the suburban garages (i.e. the buses that serve Quincy and Lynn, which are north and south of Boston) so they could retire the buses that were running since 1980! We don't have as much overturn in buses here in Boston as, say, in NYC, where NYCTA is rolling out every type of bus on the planet (I'm extremely jealous!)
What will happen is that one (or two) representative of the 84-85 RTS fleet will be send to Seashore Trolley museum as a museum bus, where there's one fishbowl and one Flyer D901. The rest will either be sent to other companies (like Paul Revere Transportation of Chelsea, which took 15 NYCTA RTSs and converted them to Red Sox shuttles) or face the scrapper's torch.
>>>Well, ever since we got rid of the Flyer D901s in 1995, we (the MBTA) has nothing but RTSs!<<<
Call me a slow, unreliable articulated bus, but I'm not understanding the problem with an all RTS fleet.
I certainly do. It's disgustingly boring. That's like having a fleet of all Neoplans or a fleet of all Flyers or Flxibles. Sure, they might be good buses, but it's nice to have a change every once in a while.
Uh oh. I knew there would be a dissenter in the ranks (laugh)
There are many buses in the MBTA fleet in "contingency" status. This is a euphemism for "ready to be scrapped." This means once the NABIs are delivered, the garages that get them will deliver their surplus buses to other garages that have the 1984-85 buses, which will then send the 1984-85 buses to Charlestown to be scrapped, hauled away, etc.
I see some of the 1984-85 RTS buses at Harvard, doing some Medford Square runs, and they look tired, almost forlorn. It's also kinda boring seeing RTSs all the time, reliable as they are, so for me, getting a new fleet of NABIs is pretty exciting.
Worcester MA RTA and Brockton MA BAT also have all RTS-fleets.
Worcester's are 1996,1997 and 1998 models if memory serves me correctly.Brockton's are 1991 and 1992 models.I haven't been to Brockton in a while so I don't know if they have anything newer.I think that SRTA in New Bedford/Fall River MA may be an all RTS fleet now.Again,haven't been down that way in a while either.Due for a visit to those areas as well as Providence,to see if I can catch any of the remaining Volvos.
Although I do like the RTS, it is nice to see transit systems with variety in the fleet. My hometown system,the Lowell Regional Transit Authority has some variety.They have 22 1992 Flxible Metro 35 footers(#9201-9222),13 1994 Gillig Phantom 30 footers (9401-9413), 2 1998 Blue Bird Trans Shuttles 25 footers (9801,9802), 3 2000 Blue Bird 30 foot CNG transit buses (0101-0103) wrapped to look like a trolley and are assigned exclusively on the Downtown Shuttle route,2 used on weekdays,1 on Saturdays.Also in the fleet is V9405, a 1994 Ford/Aerolite mini bus formerly used by the LRTA's paratransit Road Runner service.It was used on the Downtown Shuttle until the CNG Blue Birds entered service in October.It is still registered and on the LRTA's active fleet as of now,unknown what it's future status will be.
Mark Watson
I seem to remember when the Gilligs arrived in Lowell. Don't those buses have the Cummins engine?
I believe they do.I'll check with my contacts at the LRTA to confirm this.The Gilligs are holding up pretty well.A few of the Flxibles are showing a few rust spots under the rear grilles,as well as some peeling paint on the black window frames,under the large sealed windows.Lowell's Flxibles have the small round vent windows near the top of the large windows.
Also,a correction on the posting of the LRTA fleet I made last night. V9405 is an Ford/Aerolite not Aeroelite minibus.
Mark Watson
>>> Call me a slow, unreliable articulated bus, but I'm not understanding the problem with an all RTS fleet. <<<
As a fellow bus fan who grew up in Greater Boston, I too find the MBTA's all-RTS fleet very boring these days. It helps to understand where the bus situation in Boston has evolved from. The MBTA inherited a very diverse and colorful fleet from the old MTA and Eastern Mass. systems in the 1960's. On top of this, during its first two decades of existence, the MBTA bought new GMC fishbowls (2 orders), Flxibles (3 orders), AM Generals (2 orders), GM-Canada fishbowls (2 orders) and Flyer D-901's (1 order). Also in the mid-1980's, the T rebuilt a bunch of it's 1966-1970 vintage GMC's. The MBTA thus sported representatives of about 15 different bus models from 5 manufacturers when the first RTS buses rolled onto the property in 1985.
Today, the fleet consists of four different RTS models from three manufacturers (GMC, TMC and Nova). And they all wear the same exact paint scheme. BORING! I still take pictures of them when I'm back in town, but it's hard to get too excited when an 8500-series bus shows up on a Charlestwon route instead of the usual 0001-series bus. Bring on the NABI's ... or Orions ... or anything else ... just don't send the T any more RTS buses PLEASE!
>>>Bring on the NABI's ... or Orions ... or anything else ... just don't send the T any more RTS buses PLEASE!<<<
I find it funny that people like you bemoan RTS fleets but yet cream over New Looks which were the heart and soul of nearly every major bus fleet in the country back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Chicago operated a fleet of 1800 New Looks in the 70s, and NOTHING ELSE! I guess that's a bus fans dream about now, but not mine. Also, what else is so funny about your statement is that people said the same thing about New Looks in the 70s. Yes, that New Look. The GMC New Look that everybody waxes poetically about. You'll miss the RTS when they're gone and they've yet to build a bus that can ever come close to it's overall greatness.
>>> I find it funny that people like you bemoan RTS fleets <<<
It's not that I dislike the RTS bus ... not at all. It's a good-looking bus, and its ability to survive and thrive in cities such as New York and Boston has earned it a place in the pantheon of great U.S. transit buses. As a bus fan, I've photographed many RTS buses in various U.S. cities. And yes, I will miss the RTS when the last one has rolled many years from now. It's just that I find a varied bus fleet in any city much more interesting than a fleet like the MBTA's that is made up of 1,000 buses of the same type that all look the same. It's simply not as interesting as it used to be, that's all. If you grew up in Boston when I did, you'd probably feel the same way.
Jim
Yeah, I see. I mostly grew up on RTS buses and I hate to see them replaced by the crap that rolling out these days. If you're not going to replace an RTS with anohter one or a D40LF, I feel you're wasting your money.
Hey, we agree on something! I like the New Flyer low-floors, too. It is certainly the most handsome of the low-floor buses.
Jim
[The MBTA thus sported representatives of about 15 different bus models from 5 manufacturers when the first RTS buses rolled onto the property in 1985.]
If memory serves me, I believe the MBTA management made some very firm statements when the first ADB's (the RTS and Grumman 870) came out in the late 1970's that they would not buy any ADB's. Hence, all the non-ADB orders until the first RTS's came in 1985. MBTA management from that point on did a complete turnabout, ordering nothing but RTS's until now.
Hey, the the RTS is like a hot, available woman, you may SAY you don't want it, but in the end if you have the chance, you're going to want it, and you'll be hooked.
I checked the roster and you have an all RTS fleet save four busses. 5000-5001 is an Orion VI Hybrid and 6000-6001 are New Flyer Low Floor with CNG made by some company (Cummins or Detroit?). I got an engine question. How can you have turbos in your 6v71? I questioned that a while back and I was told that you can't get new 6v71 busses equipped with that. Also I looked at production records on RTS at omot.org and they did not list 6v71TA. But I admit that these records sometimes tend to be inaccurate as they rely on bus enthusiasts who record beased on what they thought they heard. Did the company add turbos during an overhaul?
You must have a transit museum since you mentioned it. Is it open to the public? Where is it located? I wish I was visiting Boston but I am short of money and I am tied up with school and other things. I would like to have a chance in the near future.
Trust me, adding a turbo to an engine is easy. Basically you're just using the exhaust to push more air into the intake. Any engine can have a turbo (even something as old as an 6/8V71N or the engine out of my '72 VW Bug, which I've installed myself). The only other thing that needs to be done to the engine is to recalibrate the fuel injection for the turbo.
That's good to know. When they first did a test on the Series 50 engines, they took 8800 and put it in. After about a year, they picked that engine to run the 1994-95 series buses, and after the test was done, 8800 got back its old 6V92TA engine.
What they're trying to do at the T is to retrofit the buses so that all that exhaust isn't spewed out, people don't cough their lungs out, etc.
:I checked the roster and you have an all RTS fleet save four busses. :5000-5001 is an Orion VI Hybrid and 6000-6001 are New Flyer Low Floor :with CNG made by some company (Cummins or Detroit?).
Forgot about those four buses. Yep, 5000/5001 and 6000/6001 are prototypes that the T uses to evaluate their next order. The Orion VIs use Lockheed HybriDrives in tandem with DDEC Series 30 engines. The ride is quiet, except for the hum and the slow takeoff. The NFI C40LFs use DDEC Series 50-IV engines, which sound a lot like the ones they use on 0001-0400 but are quieter. I think they use these buses when another one is repaired, or just to put them on a heavily used route.
:How can you have turbos in your 6v71? I questioned that a while
:back and I was told that you can't get new 6v71 busses equipped with :that. Also I looked at production records on RTS at omot.org and they :did not list 6v71TA.
My bad. The ones built before 1994 sound so alike I can't tell the difference, so my thinking is that the 6V71N could be the predecessor of the 6V92TA. I know they added exhaust stacks to the 1986-87 RTSs when they rebuilt them in 1994, but as far as I know they left the engines alone. There is a possibility of retrofitting the older RTSs with traps to filter out all the nasty stuff.
:You must have a transit museum since you mentioned it. Is it open to :the public? Where is it located?
It's the Seashore Trolley Museum, which is located in Kennebunkport, Maine. It's about 1-1/2 hours from Boston off of I-95. I've gone there twice, and it's a nice place.
Just want to correct a couple of facts about MBTA buses that have come up in this thread.
1) The order for the 124 NABI low-floor CNGs was not the result of any negotiations with multiple suppliers. It was straight low-bid. When they opened up the envelopes, whoever had the low bid would get the contract. NABI, Neoplan, and Nova bid. Interestingly, New Flyer and Orion did not bid. The plan is to assign all of the NABI buses to the new Arborway garage, which will replace Bartlett St. As construction of this CNG facility has not even started yet, the NABIs are not to be delivered before spring 2003, except for 1 prototype in 2002. Although NABI offers a stainless-steel frame as an option, because this is a low-bid contract, the order is for conventional steel bodies. With the salt air and salt treated roads in Boston, these things are going to be eaten alive. It is interesting that Orion did not bid. The 2 Orion VI hybrids that the MBTA bought are such unreliable jokes, that I think neither outfit wants to have anything to do with the other one. I don?t understand why you guys in New York are buying 100s of the things unless it has more to do with keeping jobs in upstate.
2) The MBTA will not be buying any artics from NABI, because they already have an order placed with Neoplan for 44 low-floor CNG artics (yes, that?s right, CNG artics). These things won?t arrive before late 2003, and are to be assigned to a new garage to be built at Southampton St. (next to the MBTA Police headquarters). They will be assigned to what is now Routes 39 and 49. The MBTA is also buying 28 40-foot low-floor trackless trolleys from Neoplan to replace the present fleet. These are supposed to start showing up in early 2003. Neoplan was also supposed to build 24 dual-mode diesel/electric low-floor artics for the MBTA to use on the South Boston Transitway. This part of the order has been delayed for now because local environmental groups are concerned about how much exhaust they will emit when running in the diesel mode and a committee is reviewing to find if there are any alternatives. They are supposed to come with big Mercedes-Benz engines. The Neoplan buses will not be like any model Neoplan USA has built to date, but will resemble buses Neoplan of Germany has built for Lausanne Switerland. Neoplan was the only bidder for this exotic contract and it shows in the price. $615,00 per bus for the CNG artcs, $800,000 per bus for the new trackless, and $1.65 million per bus for the dual-modes.
3) The MBTA has also placed a sole source procurement with New Flyer for 15 more CNG low-floors which will be identical to 6000-6001 and are built to New York specs except for the rear doors. These buses will be delivered in late 2001 and will be used to provide service on Washington St. (Route 49). Like 6000-6001 they will be assigned to Charlestown and repaired outdoors and will be refueled by a contractor off site. The MBTA made a promise that the Washington St. route would be run by CNG by 2001, so that is why they placed this special order. Only New Flyer was willing to open a slot in their production schedule to build this small order fast. When the Neoplan artics arrive in 2003, these New Flyers will join the NABIs at Arborway. The next MBTA garages to go CNG will be Cabot and Charlestown, but that won?t be until the next bus order. The plan is to reassign all of the RTS buses at Bartlett to other garages when Arborway opens with the CNG NABIs. This in turn will allow the retirement of the 1985 RTS buses (8400 and 8500)
4) The 8400 and 8500 series buses were all delivered in the last quarter of 1985. None were built in 1984. Many people (including MBTA capital budget writers) assumed the 8400s were delivered in 1984 because of their number series but this is not correct. The buses in this series that are in the contingency fleet are not scrap list buses. A few years ago, the Feds (FTA) told the MBTA that they owned too many buses and had to assign some to a contingency fleet. The MBTA just took a group of 1985s (8526-8565) and set them aside. They later added a few more random buses (8415, 8463, 8505, 8588, 8597, and 8598). These buses are all in working order, in no worse shape than any other 1985, and in fact do spend more time on the road than at Everett (the MBTA heavy repair shops). The MBTA?s peak vehicle requirement has gone up since the initial FTA ruling and the 1994/95s are now getting their mid-life engine/transmission overhauls, so they need more buses. During the past year, almost all of the 1985s have gone through Everett for bulkhead repairs and radius rod replacement. They are going to have to remain in service to at least spring 2003, so you don?t have to rush to get one last ride. And yes, they do have turbocharged 6V71s and they came that way. The MBTA was being very cheap back when these buses were ordered. They got 96 inch wide buses even though they had bough 102? before and since, they got them without air-conditioning, and they wanted the cheapest, most fuel efficient engine they could get. Everybody else was getting 6V92s by 1985, but the MBTA went with the unique turbocharged 6V71. The result is a drunken turtle could beat these buses going up a steep grade, but luckily there aren?t too many steep grades on the MBTA system. Despite their flaws the MBTA has sure gotten their money out of these buses. What is interesting is that the 1986/87 group (8600s-which arrived in early 87 and 8700s, which arrived in late 86) are RTS 06 series buses, and have not shown the same degree of bulkhead problems and suspension problems as the 85s have as they?ve aged. This is probably because the 06s went back to a greater use of stainless-steel and have the solid beam front suspensions instead of the A-frame independent front suspensions like the 04s.
5) As to the person who commented on the ?good old days? when the MBTA fleet was a big mix of Flxibles, AM Junkables err Generals, rehabbed GMC new-looks, non-rehabbed GMC new looks, GM of Canada New Looks, and Flyer D901s??I would say yes there was variety but there was also a much lower mean distance between failure rate, a much higher number of trips dropped due to equipment not available, and Everett shops used to be packed with buses requiring all sorts of bulkhead/frame/body/suspension work. Everett has looked a lot more like a ghost town at times since going to an all RTS fleet. I?m sure the trades unions at Everett are happy to think of the New Flyer/Neoplan/NABI future that lies ahead. More overtime for everyone!
>>>5) As to the person who commented on the ?good old days? when the MBTA fleet was a big mix of Flxibles, AM Junkables err Generals, rehabbed GMC new-looks, non-rehabbed GMC new looks, GM of Canada New Looks, and Flyer D901s??I would say yes there was variety but there was also a much lower mean distance between failure rate, a much higher number of trips dropped due to equipment not available, and Everett shops used to be packed with buses requiring all sorts of bulkhead/frame/body/suspension work. Everett has looked a lot more like a ghost town at times since going to an all RTS fleet. I?m sure the trades unions at Everett are happy to think of the New Flyer/Neoplan/NABI future that lies ahead. More overtime for everyone!<<<
I love this guy! Take that you diversity nuts! :)
But seriously, it looks like I'll be able to make a trip up to the T to ride some of the buses then. Not too shabby at all. I'm very intrested to here how a turbo-charged 6V71 sounds.
>>> As to the person who commented on the ?good old days? when the MBTA fleet was a big mix of Flxibles, AM Junkables err Generals, rehabbed GMC new-looks, non-rehabbed GMC new looks, GM of Canada New Looks, and Flyer D901s??I would say yes there was variety but there was also a much lower mean distance between failure rate, a much higher number of trips dropped due to equipment not available, and Everett shops used to be packed with buses requiring all sorts of bulkhead/frame/body/suspension work. <<<
With all due respect, please do not take my recollections about the MBTA's varied bus fleet and infer from that that I'd prefer a return to the days of rolling junk. There was a little thing called 'deferred maintenance' going on that sickened us bus fans back then. The T was in a state of perpetual financial crisis in the late 1970's and early 1980's, and lack of money had everything to do with those lines of out-of-service buses and poor failure rates. The arrival of the RTS in Boston in the mid-80's did not magically transform the system by itself. Had the MBTA ordered early RTS buses in the 1977-81 time frame and assigned them to Cabot or Arborway, you would have seen lines of dead RTS's at Everett in short order. The inner-city garages couldn't keep anything on the road. By comparison, garages like Quincy and Fellsway managed to keep their 'diverse' fleets going just fine, thank you. Things in Boston did not truly get better until Michael Dukakis was elected governor in 1982 for the second time and his administration began pouring millions (billions?) into the MBTA.
Jim
<>
The corrosion of the Flxibles and the you-name-it problems of the AMGs had a lot to do with the design of the buses too.
<< The arrival of the RTS in Boston in the mid-80's did not magically transform the system by itself. Had the MBTA ordered early RTS buses in the 1977-81 time frame and assigned them to Cabot or Arborway, you would have seen lines of dead RTS's at Everett in short order. The inner-city garages couldn't keep anything on the road. By comparison, garages like Quincy and Fellsway managed to keep their 'diverse' fleets going just fine, thank you. Things in Boston did not truly get better until Michael Dukakis was elected governor in 1982 for the second time and his administration began pouring millions (billions?) into the MBTA.>>
The MBTA has done very little body work on the RTS fleet since getting them. The rehab programs from 92 to 96 concentrated on engines and transmissions and paint jobs. The fact that corrosion and bulkhead problems didn't show up on the RTS fleet until they were 15 years old has more to do with the welded stainless-steel modular construction than any MBTA maintenance effort. The Flyer D901s began having major frame problems when they were only four years old! And that was during the time period after MBTA maintenance practices had improved. For the last few years the D901s ran, it was not unusual for each one of the buses to have to make multiple trips to Everett for emergency body repairs. MBTA maintenace practices are not what they should be, especially at the garage level. Budgets are tight and empty mechnic slots are not filled. Yet the backlog of buses at Everett for body work is low. That my friend is because of the RTS design, not any sea change at the MBTA. Everyone I know in maintenance at the T is scared s**tless about the prospects of dealing with the new buses, but these wern't the guys who got to make the decision of what to buy. I know for a fact that there was still a strong push within the MBTA to buy 200 new RTS buses to replace the 1985s, but the promise for CNG and low-floors had been made by management.
To add to his statement, Metro-Houston's bus fleet was in shambles (including the New Looks) until the RTS-04 buses came along. Bus wise, this was the turning point of our fleet. You'd be hard pressed to find someone within Metro to say this wasn't the best bus to ever roll into the city.
The first RTS buses rolled in when the RTS-01s were having A/C problems, the Grummans were falling apart on the street, and the New Looks couldn't get out of the garage. The RTS buses didn't magically make those problems buses go away (well, they made the Grummans go away in 1983), but they were in the same sad maintenence environment the other buses were in and thrived. Some may say the New Looks and even Grummans were the best buses ever made, but where were the New Looks on all those blank trips? In the garage. The RTS was the workhorse of the fleet all the way up to the summer of 2000 when the only buses fit to replace them, a fourth round of D40LFs, arrived and 100 were retired.
I don't know what these other systems do too their RTS buses, but if they gave them a fair amount of maintenence, and decent upkeep, they'd last about 30 years without rehabs.
I know many of you like diverse fleets, I do to, but in that rabid thirst for something new, you've all begun to forget that the RTS bus is not something to look down upon. Do you all really think if the RTS was an inferior product, there'd be so many all RTS fleets running around? No. They don't even make RTS like they used to so I doubt you'll ever find another bus that can even come close to the accolades the RTS have.
Also, as far as diversity goes, the only reason you all want such diverse fleets is because of different engines. If you haven't noticed, the engines in most new buses, sans RTS buses, and New Flyers sound pretty much the same. You can have a 1,000 bus fleet of RTS and have more engine diversity than what's currently on the market.
I'd rather live in a city with 3000+ RTS fleet than in a city with Orions, NABIs, and Gilligs oh my!
[I'd rather live in a city with 3000+ RTS fleet than in a city with Orions, NABIs, and Gilligs oh my!]
Delaware has - or is about to go with - two out of the three you listed: NABI and Gillig.
For the longest time, DART First State in Wilmington was strictly GM country. In the late 1980's, the DART fleet consisted of GM Fishbowls and RTS-2s (I think). A few of the DART fishbowls were sold to Nashua, N.H. to start that city's transit system in 1985 (they were retired two years later when the Orions arrived).
The remaining DART fishbowls were retired upon arrival of the Flxibles, which came in two batches between 1988 and 1990. The RTS fleet lasted until 1995, when the first batch of Gillig Phantoms - 46 40-ft, 10-8 30-ft - arrived. A second batch of about 10 Phantoms arrived a year later.
Last year, DART recieved 7 new Gillig low floors, and will recieve 20 low floor buses and 19 standard floor buses from NABI over the next two years. There is an option for an additional 25 buses. By the time this order arrives from NABI, the 200-series Flxibles will probably be retired, leaving the Flxibles (300-series), Gilligs (400-series; plus low floor coaches 101-107), NABIs, and MCI 102D3 cruisers (used on Wilmington-Dover intercounty service).
OK, RTS_2150, you've wrenched my arm...
When I rode to school in Boston, they didn't start using RTSs until around 1986-87 for regular school trips. Before then, the buses they used either didn't show up or broke down on the way, sometimes twice a week. After the RTSs were used for trippers, I can count with one hand the number of times the RTS broke down (and with two hands the times it didn't show up). The older buses also shook like crazy when they hit the potholes, while the RTSs went smoothly.
I tip my hat to rtspcc, who cleared up a lot of my misunderstandings and gave me a picture of what the MBTA plans to do with updating their fleet. Until then the RTSs will be just fine.
Yay! A convert! Now that I've gotten you to admit that the RTS buses were superior at least operation wise, you can go on loving the old days and look forward to something new! It's great to see someone admit to what an RTS can do.
>>> When I rode to school in Boston, they didn't start using RTSs until around 1986-87 for regular school trips. Before then, the buses
they used either didn't show up or broke down on the way, sometimes twice a week. After the RTSs were used for trippers, I can
count with one hand the number of times the RTS broke down (and with two hands the times it didn't show up). <<<
You must have had the misfortune of riding buses based at Cabot Garage. I rode MBTA school trippers in Quincy in those pre-RTS dinosaur years from 1976 to 1981, and never suffered a breakdown. I could probably count the number of missed trips on one hand as well.
>>> The older buses also shook like crazy when they hit the potholes, while the RTSs went smoothly. <<<
Well, of course ... the RTS buses were practically new back then. This past November, I rode an 8700-series bus and several 0001-series buses, and they all exhibited the usual Boston-bus shaking and rattling when going over potholes and bad pavement. Only the 8900-series bus I rode on the 57 Watertown-Kenmore route was absent this rattling, probably because this fleet of buses run the majority of their miles on the Mass Pike express routes.
Jim
>You must have had the misfortune of riding buses based at Cabot >Garage. I rode MBTA school
>trippers in Quincy in those pre-RTS dinosaur years from 1976 to 1981, >and never suffered a
>breakdown. I could probably count the number of missed trips on one >hand as well.
Most of my school trippers came from Arborway (and then Bartlett since 1987). I went to Latin Academy from 1984 (7th grade) to 1990 (senior), and we got nearly every Flxible, GM fishbowl and Flyer they had. The trolley tracks on Centre St and South Huntington Ave were murder, and sometimes we'd be stuck on Hyde Park Avenue with the engine gone, waiting for a bus to take us to Forest Hills.
>Only the 8900-series bus I rode on the 57
>Watertown-Kenmore route was absent this rattling, probably because >this fleet of buses run the
>majority of their miles on the Mass Pike express routes.
You better believe it. The 8900s run smoother than silk because they're almost always assigned to the Turnpike routes and the more suburban routes like the 57, 60 and 65. We never got 8900s on our route, because it ran out of Albany, but I'll bet many an Allston-Brighton tripper got one.
Here is a business story about the NABI MBTA order. NABI seems to assume the 100% option is good as gold, but I wouldn't. Also, based on the other news included in this story, I wouldn't count on seeing any 45-foot compobuses actually being built anytime soon!........
Nabi Rt., a Hungarian busmaker with plants in the U.S. and the U.K., said it won an order worth more than $80 million from a U.S. transport authority, though concerns about the company's ongoing legal action may stem investor's enthusiasm about the order, analysts said.
The Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, which serves the Boston area, will buy 124 40-foot, natural gas-powered buses in the second half of 2002 and has an option to buy another 124 buses, Nabi said. Shares traded down 0.8 percent, or 35 forint, to 4,365 forint, after rising as much as 1.6 percent earlier.
Nabi sells buses to U.S. cities such as Los Angeles and Denver and a year ago bought U.K. busmaker Optare Group Ltd. While Nabi expands and signs new contracts, a legal dispute in the U.S. over the technology for Nabi's new fiberglass unit, Compobus, seen as the main driver of future profit, overshadows earnings expectations.
``An order for 2002 is not enough to give a real boost to the share price,'' said Zoltan Kevi, stock analyst at Raiffeisen Securities in Budapest. ``There's never been any problems with the orders. Investors are more concerned about the Compobus now.''
Nabi shares fell 8 percent, or 400 forint, to 4,600 forint, a 15-month low, in December when the company said it was suing TPI Composites Inc., alleging its supplier broke a contract by failing to provide information the Budapest-based company needs to make its CompoBus.
It's nice to see folks like rtspcc and RTS_2150 who feel so passionately about the RTS bus. In a previous post of mine, I've expressed admiration for the RTS bus and its' ability to thrive in hostile big-city environments. In my brief career as a bus driver 15 years ago, I drove RTS 03 and 04 buses for a year, and for that reason alone will always have a soft spot for this bus. All that said, however, I visit these websites and post on these boards because I'm a bus fan. I like riding buses, I like photographing and watching buses. And I like seeing a diverse fleet. I think it's cool to see the same paint scheme on different types of buses. I hope that the MBTA uses its standard RTS paint scheme on its upcoming New Flyer and NABI buses, because I'd like to see how the yellow and black bands look on these buses (count me as one of those disappointed that the T didn't repaint at least some of its older GMC, Flxible and Flyer buses in the RTS paint scheme other than Flyer bus #9467). I like visiting other cities, and seeing how RTS, Orion, New Flyer buses, etc. look in a different operator's paint scheme. Does this make me a 'foamer'? I hope not, but frankly, I don't care. I don't work in mass transportation, and I don't get paid to worry about failure rates and keeping these buses on the road. Don't get me wrong ... I don't want to see some manufacturer profit by duping public transit authorities into buying a complete piece of s***, but beyond that, it doesn't bother me that there are firms competing with NovaBus to sell North American transit buses. There is a competitive marketplace out there, and if the NABI bus is a complete piece of garbage, sooner or later TA's will stop buying them no matter what the price. But on the other hand, who knows what will happen ... maybe one of these buses (the New Flyer, perhaps) will replace the RTS as the Next Great American Transit Bus? All I know is, as a bus fan, it'll be more fun to watch than if transit authority fleets became the same as UPS or the Postal Service, where the delivery trucks look almost exactly the same no matter where you travel.
Jim
Saw 162 broke down just north of Northern Blvd on Middle Neck road. Mechanic was on site trying to restart the crappy Cummins.
Had 615 (diesel Orion) this evening and it was slow as hell.
Also saw what looked to be an old MCI-type bus on the Q60. What's up with that?
Took the 175 from GWB to Garden State Plaza. Definately a bit longer than the 171, but the ride through Teaneck was nice. Didn't want to wait for the 171 along route 4 in today's inclement weather.
Bergen really looked nice in the snow, especially Teaneck.
Had Flxibles both ways on the 175 with their groaning engines (they use Cummins don't they?)
GBL has 11 of the transit type MCI Classic and JBL has 1 (well actually GBL 713-716 were originally slated for JBL:the diference is in the seating).705-712 has the seats found on most GBL buses,while 713-716 has the seats that used to be on JBL's Grumman 870's.
Today while riding to the city on DeCamp bus #88, I noticed a sticker-sign posted on a panel beneath the driver seat.
NOTICE TO PATRONS,
DUE TO THE UNCERTAINTY IN THE SPREADING OF DISEASES, WE KINDLY ASK YOU TO NOT PUT BUS TICKETS IN YOUR MOUTH.
THANK YOU.
Interesting, never noticed it before.
Also, you can forget about using your cell phone on DeCamp buses. There is a large sign on the front bulkhead that states
CELL PHONE USE PROHIBITED
Yeah, real effective. The ride back to Jersey sounded like a freaking switchboard. But that driver was nice and let the people get away with it.
However, I wouldn't plan on ignoring that policy. On the ride in, a young female received a call and started chattering and laughing loudly. The driver hollered into the mike, "THERE IS NO CELL PHONE USE ON DECAMP BUSES, THERE IS NO CELL PHONE USE ON DECAMP BUSES! THANK YOU!" while pointing to the sign.
Well that got the message across!
I kinda felt sorry for her though, I wouldn't want to be embarassed like that, and the driver didn't have to be that harsh, but the law's the law, right?
GBL 719-722 (formerly NYBS 1711-1714)has the sign about the cellphones in the front alao.
It's funny that you mention the "No Cell Phone" issue. This policy also applies with Concord Trailways (based in Concord, NH). They primarily serve Boston, Logan Airport, Portland, ME and areas of New Hampshire. They only allow your call IF it's a bonafide emergency.
DeCamp, always liked that company. 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
It's about time! People don't need to run their mouths constantly on cell phones talking about [insert topic here].
They should start spreading that to the Commuter Rail trains, where they have huge signs saying the following:
FOR THE COMFORT AND CONSIDERATION OF YOUR FELLOW PASSENGERS, WE ASK THAT ALL CELL PHONE CONVERSATIONS BE BRIEF AND THOSE TALKING AT AN UNACCEPTABLE NOISE LEVEL WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE THE TRAIN.
This won't curb the hardcore users, which will respond nicely to a conductor screaming,
WE WILL REPEAT EVERY SINGLE WORD OF THE CONVERSATION TO THE ENTIRE TRAIN IF YOU DON'T STOP TALKING!
A little embarassment never hurt anyone, does it?
BTW: It's great a bus driver told the offending passenger the rules of the bus...some don't, and you get the giggles and "what's for dinner" conversations that should remain private.
During a recent visit to the LRTA's garage, I saw this sign posted on the driver's bulletin board :
DRIVERS ARE NOT TO USE CELL PHONES WHILE OPERATING THEIR BUS.
As far as I know,the LRTA has no policy regarding passengers' use of cell phones aboard the bus.
Mark Watson
Does anybody out there actually like the combined service of Greyhound and Peter Pan? All I think this "merger" did was increase the average fare for the cash-strapped consumer. This conglomerate now wants $54 for a round trip ticket from New Britain (CT) to Boston. Up until 1998, this same schedule would cost $30 on the weekend. (New York City was $26 on the weekend. It now costs $40.) Nowadays, very few Greyhound buses come to New Britain. Bonanza Bus Lines only services Farmington (CT) and Hartford.(They're based in Providence, RI.)
it's an interesting issue... before they pooled their northeast operations, they did compete with each other and often had price wars... ticket wise it doesn't seem that the combined operations has served the consumer... i would assume the bus fare is still cheaper than amtrak... i am going to raise your question at the greyhound bus club site on yahoo... if you want to join or just read the message board here's a link:
greyhound club
I've ridden it a few times between Washington, DC and New York. Even though their fare are much lower than Amtrak - I think they've gotten a bit greedy. In 1997 I rode on Greyhound for $51 rouond-trip and recently I checked the fares and I believe it was $73 round-trip. My feeling is that the Greyhound/Peter Pan pool has not benefitted the passengers.
Wayne
Hasn't benefitted the customer? Gee, that's an understatement! I just hope that the schedule changes aren't too radical when they change this week. (e.g. The last bus from New York City to New Briain, CT right now is a 10:30 PM local which gets here at 1:40 AM. By Wednesday, it'll become an 11:30 PM express which gets here at 1:50 AM.)
Just for the reference, Berlin, CT (the New Britain area train station) to Washington, DC on Amtrak is $136 round trip. That's only the Monday to Thursday fare. It's pretty obvious that their Acela service will never be included into the "Inland Route." (There's quite a few "at-grade" crossings. After New Haven, you get quick stops in Wallingford and Meriden before you even reach Berlin.)
Yesterday a fellow driver of mine at 126th Street told me an interesting bit of news. I don't know how true it is but I'll throw it out here anyway to see if anyone else knows anything about it. While working as a shifter inside the depot this colleague of mine got into a conversation with some maintenance personnel. These maintenance personnel told him that it appears that TA management is reevaluating their decision to purchase more articulated buses. Apparently the bus's poor performance during last Saturday's snow storm has opened a lot of people's eyes. Many buses were stuck and at least ten accidents were recorded. Apparently the back end has a nasty tendency to slide out on a slippery surface.
I'd be intersted to know if this story is true or just more scuttlebutt.
I wouldn't doubt that this story is true. I know Baltimore is never purchasing anymore either. I know storms like this don't happen all that often, but its going to get expensive to have to repair all of the ones damaged.
Maybe it's time for NYCT to consider an alternative
for their high-capacity needs...like, say, a 45-foot length low-floor transit bus?
>>> Maybe it's time for NYCT to consider an alternative
for their high-capacity needs...like, say, a 45-foot length low-floor transit bus? <<<
This would not do anything to address capacity needs. The only reason anyone has considered adding that extra five feet to a low-floor bus is to make up for the capacity lost by having a low-floor bus.
First, I think that the artics were so problematic in NYC this winter because the weather was extremely severe and the artics are still relatively new phenomenon in NYC. Artics may handle differently in the snow, but that does not necessarily mean that their handling is inferior.
A lot of cold-weater cities use artics under all conditions, pusher and tractor. In the worst weather, they are sometimes pulled for a day or two
Second, even if the handling is that much worse, is it really worth it to abandon artics altogether because they might not be able to handle the weather for 5 days a year?
Maybe the TA should consider double-decker buses if both cold-weather abilities and crowds continue to be problems, but in most cities, articulated buses have proven themselves suitable in 99.9% of cases.
I would think that the trailer would jacknife more by not having the engine in the back of the bus since there would be very little weight back there. It almost seems like you need a second driver in the back to control it, sort of like a hook and ladder truck.
I've never heard of having to get a class A license for an artic. I guess they are saying that its like driving a tractor trailer truck.
No, a pusher would fishtail more, just like a rear drive car. The power would cause the rear to slide out, pinioning on the hitch.
-Hank
i would suggest getting more low floor buses. A driver from the B68 route wihich operates out of JG depot in brooklyn says the low floor were ALL pulled from service during storm last week. The buses dont run well during snow, the TA would have serious shortage problems.
Plus a 45' transit bus would mean that it would also have to have a tag axle. You wouldn't gain much seating capacity because of the tag.
I believe it was pointed out in a recent post that the only 45 foot transit bus in the U.S., which is being produced by NABI, does not have a tag axle, i.e., it is a 2-axle bus.
Tag axle is only required if the bus is over a certain weight, not length.
-Hank
It's the TA. Are those of who are working or worked for TA really surprised. They found it as a quick fix for surging ridership.
The answer to address ridership os hire more operators (or stop nit-picking on accidents and stuff so much with current ones) and add 40 footers.
I am sure people would rather have a 40 footer arriving on a 4 minute headway than a 60 footer on a 8 minute headway.
See people, this is what happens when you try to half-ass things. The large TAs seem so intent on large bus orders these days that they don't even really have a chance to observe the bus in all conditions. I hope the NYCTA pulls ALL artics during the winter, and all low floors during blizzards. Hell, the should pull all the artics anyway, they're slow and are a nuisance with that trailer and all.
As for low floors, if you get any significant amount of snow, they'll have to be pulled. Aren't all the new Orions coming in LFs? If they are, let me say this, HA! That's what happens when you try to replace buses so hastily with designs that are untested in certain areas. I hope it snows again so we can all see if the TA will do the right thing and pull the artics and LFs during inclimate weather, I'm not holding my breath.
Less artics, more 40 footers.
Why stop ordering artics because they can't run two days out of the 365 in a year? If they can't run 0.0055 percent of the year, big deal. They run the other 99.9945 percent of the time, there is no reason to stop ordering them. Now, if they stopped because they were slowing down the crosstown routes, I would understand fully.
>>>Why stop ordering artics because they can't run two days out of the 365 in a year? If they can't run 0.0055 percent of the year, big deal.<<<
Good point. But let's say that NYCTA had 500 Articulated buses. If there was a blizzard on a Wedensday that blew in during the afternoon rush and there were 360 artics on the road, and say, 75 got into accidents. Now, for that ONE day, it's going to cost the TA thousands of dollars to replace damaged artics and waste time with frivelous lawsuits that some poor, ignorant waif is going to try to file. It doesn't even have to be a blizzard, a good wind and a patch of ice could dispatch an artic. I don't think the TA is going to want to keep the buses in winter storage every year, so I say, they keep some old RTS in the artic depots and when there's some considerable winter weather, ground the artics and let the old RTS do their thing.
And let's hope the TA isn't stupid enough to buy that many. They are being put on routes like the M79 and M86 and increasing the length of those trips considerably. Perhaps, the TA will realize its mistake and move them all to the M15 before there are 500 Artics. Or to the bottom of the sea INSTEAD of the redbirds.
I thought I saw on here that the TA was purchasing a couple hundred more, which would give them close to 500. The 300 or so that they have seem to be causing enough problems. I agree that larger buses with larger headways is not a way to solve problems. They may as well put a little effort and choke it up and hire more drivers and run 40 footers at shorter headways.
well, it's not that easy hiring more drivers, especially if there aren't any available. Besides, don't forget the extra costs in running more buses. Plus, the streets would be clogged with more bus traffic, and then everyone would be annoyed. See?
>>>well, it's not that easy hiring more drivers, especially if there aren't any available.<<<
NYC has almost 20 million people, they're some available.
>>>Besides, don't forget the extra costs in running more buses.<<<
Actually, it's cheaper to run more buses than to buy artics. An artic costs about twice as much as a regular bus for one thing. Plus, it costs more to run them in service because they have special needs other buses don't. Then, the cost of reparing them after they've jack-knifed are swung out and hit something. Running RTS, New Flyers, or Orions in increased service is the better and overall cheaper alternative.
>>>Plus, the streets would be clogged with more bus traffic, and then everyone would be annoyed.<<<
Too late. People are already annoyed by the artics because they are slow and their trailers can bloack traffic if they pull too far inot a bus stop or especially if they get stuck at a turn.
>>>NYC has almost 20 million people, they're some available.<<<
Actually it's only around 7.5 million.
I includued the surrounding Metro areas. That's what they usually do for Houston (4 million) and LA (18 million).
>>> NYC has almost 20 million people, they're some available. <<<
First of all, NYC does not have 20 million people, but even if it did, being a bus operator is a very difficult job which not everyone wants. The GM of my transit system tells me that if they receive 500 job applications for jobs to drive, only about 25 of those applicants will make it behind the wheel.
>>> Actually, it's cheaper to run more buses than to buy artics. An artic costs about twice as much as a regular bus for one thing. Plus, it costs more to run them in service because they have special needs other buses don't. Then, the cost of reparing them after they've jack-knifed are swung out and hit something. Running RTS, New Flyers, or Orions in increased service is the better and overall cheaper alternative. <<<
You are wrong on so many accounts in this argument. First, an articulated bus costs between $350K and $410K, hardly twice as much as a 40-footer. True it does cost slightly more to equip garages to service them, but not -every- garage needs to be so equipped. Aside from the hydraulic hoists and a few other things, the equipment used to service artics and that used for standard buses is largely the same.
Artics do not jackknife nearly as much as they used to. Today's artics come with a feature with "stiffens" the articulation when the bus exceeds a certain speed.
It would cost a -lot- more to try and provide the capacity artics can offer with all 40-foot buses. It does cost more to purchase artics like we already established, but this is an investment which some transit systems need to make. Lines which best use artics are often the most frequent lines in a system, and if using artics means 4 minute headways rather than 3 minute headways, that it a fair compromise. Of course, I do not support chopping frequencies in half as a result of using artics, but they definately have their benefits. So running more 40-foot buses might possibly be -slightly- better, but it certainly would never be cheaper. AS far as operating costs go, paying the driver is far and away the most expensive part of running a bus.
>>> Too late. People are already annoyed by the artics because they are slow and their trailers can bloack traffic if they pull too far inot a bus stop or especially if they get stuck at a turn. <<<
Aside from certain informed transit critics like us, I don't think anyone is annoyed by the artics.
Neil
If the TA unfortunately wants to forgo any future artric order after the initial 510 .They should go w/the New Flyers still but in a C40HF model cause of the fact being that deep snow also takes the low floors out of service as well.
With all the facts stated in this thread, I would think that New Flyer's D60LF didn't sell well-both an artic AND a low floor!
As far as I know, only 2 operations have them: Missagua Transit in Ontario, and somewhere in Honolulu.
The OCTA in California has them too.
>>>You are wrong on so many accounts in this argument. First, an articulated bus costs between $350K and $410K, hardly twice as much as a 40-footer. True it does cost slightly more to equip garages to service them, but not -every- garage needs to be so equipped. Aside from the hydraulic hoists and a few other things, the equipment used to service artics and that used for standard buses is largely the same.<<<
Actually, a 40 footer costs about 200,000 to 275,000 dollars, so I'm pretty damn close.
>>>Artics do not jackknife nearly as much as they used to. Today's artics come with a feature with "stiffens" the articulation when the bus exceeds a certain speed.<<<
I'm sure the drivers of the wrecked artics in NYC would take comfort in knowing that.
>>>True it does cost slightly more to equip garages to service them, but not -every- garage needs to be so equipped.<<<
Slightly? If TAs don't have the foresight to build facilities that can handle nearly any type of bus in the first place, it may cost them thousands of dollars to retrofit a depot for artics and those hoits and other artic exclusive parts you mention don't come cheap.
>>>So running more 40-foot buses might possibly be -slightly- better, but it certainly would never be cheaper. AS far as operating costs go, paying the driver is far and away the most expensive part of running a bus.<<<
I've heard it DOES cost more to operate artics over any line with any frequency because you have to pay the driver an incentive for driving a high capacity vehicle and then it costs more to fefuel and repair them. Also, they don't usually last as ong as a forty footer and deteriorate faster. Plus, paying a few extra drivers to add service to a route is less than the 200K extra per artic bus in a 150 bus order.
>>>Aside from certain informed transit critics like us, I don't think anyone is annoyed by the artics.<<<
Believe me, there are.
>>> Actually, a 40 footer costs about 200,000 to 275,000 dollars, so I'm pretty damn close. <<<
What kind of quality 40-foot bus costs $200,000? You want NYC running Gilligs?
>>> I'm sure the drivers of the wrecked artics in NYC would take comfort in knowing that. <<<
How badly were these buses 'wrekced?'
>>> Slightly? If TAs don't have the foresight to build facilities that can handle nearly any type of bus in the first place, it may cost them thousands of dollars to retrofit a depot for artics and those hoits and other artic exclusive parts you mention don't come cheap. <<<
Intelligent TA's do just the opposite. Instead of spending money to equip every depot to operate every type of bus, they isolate certain models to only certain depots to keep costs down.
>>> I've heard it DOES cost more to operate artics over any line with any frequency because you have to pay the driver an incentive for driving a high capacity vehicle and then it costs more to fefuel and repair them. Also, they don't usually last as ong as a forty footer and deteriorate faster. Plus, paying a few extra drivers to add service to a route is less than the 200K extra per artic bus in a 150 bus order. <<<
First, not every transit system offers its drivers incentives for driving an artic. In many cities, artics are used interchangibly with 40-foot buses, so the same driver might have a rigid bus one day and an artic the next. Second, that incentive rarely exceeds 50 cents per hour, if even that. I realize that this can add up to a lot more money for operating costs, but not nearly as much as paying a second driver for another bus.
Artics do not use that much more fuel than 40-footers, and again, what little more costs that are associated with this are offset by the savings of not having to fuel -another- bus.
Artics last just as long as 40-footers. If you don't believe me, just ask Seatte, Chicago, and San Francisco. Also, they do not deteriorate faster at all. It is obvious that they do have some different maintenance needs, but when properly tended to, every part of an artic stands the test of time.
Notice that no TA has ever stopped buying 40-foot buses and started buying 60-foot buses exclusively. Let's face it: TA's are able to keep track of their ridership and overcrowding a lot better than we are, and as the last 20 years have told, articulated buses can be very successful and very useful in lots of applications.
Neil
You can just ask Westchester county. A bus purchase is a one-time expense, amortized over the life of the bus. Drivers, however, are an annual expense that only increases. Artics don't cost nearly as much to operate and maintain as two 40' buses would.
-Hank
".........you have to pay a driver an incentive for driving a high capacity vehicle........" Don't get too carried away. The TA on;y pays an extra .25 per hour! Couple this to the higher capacity of an artic, the TA is getting a bargain from TWU!
VERY GOOD POINTS!
If the TA did build depots so all buses could go to all depots, that would be nice. Also, I know a very close relative of mine who was DELIGHTED see a RTS on the M79 during the snow storm.
all agreed--in my mind every bus model is good in the way it was meant to be good--but in snow the RTS is by far the strongest current kind.
As for hiring drivers they have a 16,000 name civil service list in use right now.......THEY ARE AVAILABLE. And thats just for TA - Bklyn, Qns, SI and 126 st in manhattan.
Mabstoa does their own thing, no testing or anything - fill out a coupon in the paper and sen it in with $25. I believe they had about 5000 sign up for that. And i had a couple friends called from a random list of names that Mabstoa assembles last year.
So figure you have al least 3 sources and about 25000 names to choose from.
TA management is just afraid of hiring a few hundred more enemies - they already have 50000+ people who hate their collective guts working for them already.
According to a calcualtion done by Trevor Logan on here a couple of months ago, NYC will have about 510 artics.
Makes sense. We have 370 now, and we're getting 140 more in the fall, which is 510.
I figured as much. That's the first thing that struck me when I heard of their poor performance.
I figured the agency might have second thoughts about buying more of them in the future. There has not been a major snowstorm since they have been in NYC so this is the first time the busses really "got their feet wet".
As often as we have weather events such as this, 3-5 times a year, it doesn't make sense. Just pull the buses when necessary. It's like not buying a snow shovel, because you'd only use it 3-5 times a year.
-Hank
When I wrote the post earlier today I forgot to add this little tidbit. After my colleague informed me of what he had heard, I got into a conversation with another driver about the artics. I mentioned the fact that Westchester County's Bee Line System's MAN articulateds don't seem to have any problems handling the snow. He pointed out the fact that the MAN's aren't pusher type articluateds but rather have their engine in the front half of the bus and that the drive wheels are the second set of wheels. I then said that maybe the TA should consider buying that type of artic instead of the pusher type. He claimed that if the TA did we would all have to get class A licenses since having the engine and drive wheels located in the front half of the vehicle with a powerless trailer in the rear would put the bus in the same category as a tractor trailer. Does anybody have any idea if this is true or not?
No it is not true. It is still a class B licenses.
Finally, it seems that the 10 old RTSs that have stayed in service for Command are going. These buses are only used on the B-100, so just before this week, the B-100 had old RTS and CNG RTS making up the entire route. However, I saw two Orions on the route and have only seen 1985 RTS 368 recently w/ no other 300s. My question is: Are these '85 RTSs going, so the B-100 will join the Orion club w/the others?
The GMC RTSs are still in service. When Command has extra buses in the yard they will allow a B100 operator to take out a TMC RTS. However, if the buses are being used elsewhere (Racetrack etc.) you will find all the GMC RTS on the B100. They are in bad shape and need to be replaced real soon. Most drivers prefer a MCI Classic or Orion over both the TMC and GMC RTS. Finally to answer your question the GMC RTS are not going just yet but they will see as little service as necessary. Should Command loose the extra services they provide, Racetrack and Shea Stadium runs then I am sure the GMC RTS will be put to rest.
Kevin
transitworld.org
i thought that the orion V buses that JG has (#581-#610) were going to Command. This isnt true?
(i thought that the orion V buses that JG has (#581-#610) were going to Command. This isnt true? )
Not true. I heard that Command was to receive 3 CNG RTS buses from the TA but that move has not occurred yet. Command along with Triboro were supposed to receive additional transit version Orions but the DOT turned down the option order. I am sure the DOT will be purchasing new buses soon to replace the 1985/6 RTS buses. The question is from who.
~~Kevin
transitworld.org
Would those three CNG RTS be JG's old 8398, 8399, 8567?
Yes. the above 3 RTS CNG's are not compitable to the CNG Fueling System that Gleason now uses. The system is geared for the Orions and the New Flyers only.
BTW Command was never going to get the Gleason CNG Orions
Thank You
why didnt the DOT order the MCI express buses for their private fleets? I mean, i dont know if Jamaica or Green had room, but i think Command does. This way, the older RTS buses could be mothballed and sent the newer RTS to the b100 route.
If not, how about whatever buses Suffolk Transit gets rid of? their buses dont run om sundays r major holidays, and they must thave extras. By the way, how did Suffolk wind up with 30 foot Flexible Metro buses and LIB did not? 30-foot buses could work on DOT lines with low renenue (like the Q21 or Q67 on weekends)
I heard the DOT is considering buying MCI D4000s to replace the Classics, maybe in 2003. Also, dont forget New York Bus Service is supposed to get 5 MCI D4500s in a few weeks.
Peace,
Kevin
transitworld.org
I heard "00" in the model code means the year. The model wouldn't change to D4003?
You are right they would be D4003.
Peace,
Kevin
transitworld.org
Also, dont forget New York Bus Service is supposed to get 5 MCI D4500s in a few weeks.
Uh-oh... what implication does this have for the NYBS Fishbowls??
Fishbowls will be extinct in NYC before this year's end. 1481-1488?! Are 1981 Models while 1489-1505 are 1982 Models. Please correct me if I'm wrong with what numbers are what models. Thanks.
BXM7#1489Gary
I thought it 1481-1495 that were 1981's and 1496-1505 were 1982 buses. The newer buses have the extra turn indicator next to the rear wheel wells.
Wayne
A quick check of OMOT.org doesn't show any bus higher than 1379 a
T6H-5308A model. What is the model of these buses and were they purchased from another carrier. Of course if you can get on the bus and see the builders plate or check the registration in the window you could get the serial number and then check the website. Keep us informed. Thanx
NYBS's 1982 New Looks are T8H-5307A's from Canada.
Unless GMDD (Canada) deviated from the usual GMC/GMDD model designations... the NYBS Fishbowls would be T8H-5308A. The GMDD fishbowls that were used by the other NYC-DOT companies were T8H-5307A's but they were a bit different from NYBS buses. They were transit models and they were 102 inches wide. I often wonder why the NYBS GMDD buses did not get a suburban model designation - which for these it would've been S8H-5304A.
Wayne
Wayne your correct, I looked on the GMDD production lists and the 1982 NYBS GM fishbowls were listed as:
Serials: C3500385-C3500394
Model: T8H-5308A
Fleet #'s: 1496-1505
Company: New York Bus Service
RDChilds
They NYBS GMDD fishbowls ARE T8H5308A.
Why weren't they designated as suburbans? because they were not built as suburbans!! Suburbans had underfloor luggage bins. NYBS stuff did not.
(On a similar note, Golden Gate Transit out in California had all their T8H5305A's and T8H5307A's set up the same way as NYBS -- high-back seats on platforms, package racks, reading lights. But NO underfloor luggage bins. Makes 'em all transits.)
Thanks for the info. It seems a bit silly to me that they would build a bus loaded with suburban features but designate it a transit bus because it lacks one suburban feature. When suburbans were plentiful I'd bet the rent that the underfloor storage space was the least utilized suburban feature by a huge margin.
In my mind the true suburbans are a thing of the past unless you count the intercity buses w/o lavatories
Wayne
Very true, I'd bvet most suburbans saw little use of the luggage bins underneath.
The reason there IS a difference in models, though, is that there is a big difference in construction. Tanks, wiring, etc. all had to be installed in quite a differenct manner on a true suburban. The underbody framing to hold everything underneath is different (not that it mattered as the frame which really held a new look together was up through the roof).
As for the interior configurations, I've also seen (and driven) some true suburbans (SDM5302's and SDH5302's) that had TRANSIT SEATS, no overhead luggage racks, flourescent lighting, and no reading lamps.
There were also quite a number of suburbans built without air conditioning as well (i.e. the Gray Line operator in Alaska, and Seattle, as well as some from Illinois I've seen).
Today I was off to NJ again, this time with the 193 route to Willowbrook Mall. It was very fast, right down route 3, then 46 to the mall. Unlike the 163 we did not make stops in Union City, which really sped things up not having to deal with those annoying traffic lights. I'd take the 163 to GSP if it didn't go through Union City. All those stops there are really annoying, let UC residents find another way to GSP!
Route 3 is pretty nice though, and there seems to be a Wendy's every other mile or so! Then before I knew it we were approaching Wayne, lots of various strip malls and shopping centers. I left PABT at 11:00am, got to Willowbrook at 11:27am, which was very fast.
Wayne is a really nice area, even more shopping than Paramus, and the stores aren't too fancy. The bus stop was in a special "park and ride" lot, which is a good idea for commuters and those travling into the city. The mall entrance was a bit of a walk away.
The Willowbrook mall got busy by 2pm, pretty large place with some large department stores. And they got Sears too. Also went into a smaller mall across the way. Fortunoff was there but it wasn't as big as the Westbury store. Also the small mall (Wayne town center) was a "discount" based mall, and it appeared not to be doing too well (high vacancy). Borders was nice though.
I left Willowbrook at 4pm. The bus sign said 194 express (same as 193). Another MCI cruiser. Man those things are fast.
After a bit of traffic leaving the mall and near the eastern border of Wayne, we flied down route 3. We must've been going at least 65mph, maybe over 70mph. It seemed to even beat the LIRR express runs!
We kept on speeding through Union City on the expressway, and we were going fast because we were late due to traffic around the mall.
It was 4:30pm when we were in Union City, then arrived at PABT just 5 minutes later. Fastest trans-state ride I ever had. What do they use in those MCI's? They really are fast.
Also has PSE&G ever served Staten Island, because their power poles (subtransmission) which are on major highways look alot like those along the SIR ROW.
One things for sure, you folks in NJ are damn lucky. You don't have to go through the wasteland of Queens to get to Manhattan and you got some fast, comfy buses! Never get to NYC in a half hour (by bus) from anywhere on Long Island!
"You don't have to go through the wasteland of Queens to get to Manhattan".
What's that supposed to mean?
BIG AL
Well even though there are better parts of Queens, the LIRR (LI has no express buses) seems to be quite a depressing ride through Queens.
i agree with Big Al
steve
If the 194 is the same as the 193, why both?
I usually travel Rt. 3 every Saturday from the tunnel (although technically Rt. 3 doesn't begin until after the western leg of the turnpike) to Valley Rd, the last stop on Rt. 3. I've done that in 12 minutes.
The 193 and 194 (and 197) share the same route between New York and Willowbrook, but they split after that
193 Pompton Lakes
194 Newfoundland
197 Greenwood Lake/Warwick
The 191 and 195 buses also run between New York and Willowbrook (ends at Willowbrook). They are local, so the ride is longer, but you see some more local scenes.
The 194 and 195 run a combined schedule on Sundays. 195 Local route to Willowbrook, then continues as 194 to Newfoundland.
The bus was nice and empty too. NJT buses never seem that crowded, compared to the packed N21 ride I had to endure both ways between Flushing and Sea Cliff.
Could someone please tell me what NJT uses in their MCI's? Those engines are quiet and very fast.
6V92TA engines, though the new cruisers/coaches will have the DD60. As a general rule, cruisers are a lot quieter than transit coaches.
Wow those 6V-92's are fast! But our diesel Orions at LIB use them and they aren't fast like that. Is there local transit 6V-92 model different, or are the diesel Orions at LIB governed?
I don't know specifics, but that sounds about right.
The NJT cruisers (and for that matter, most of the Flxibles) are geared towards highway use (ie. NJ 3, Turnpike, GSP, etc), so I don't think speed governors apply. (If you thought those buses fly along NJ 3 towards Wayne, you should see these buses on the Atlantic City Expressway while running the 551 between AC and Philly.)
Then again, when I was returning from the Meadowlands arena last month, I rode back to the PABT on 3728 (Big Tree, for those scoring at home) - a Flxible Metro D Suburban - and the acceleration was just as fast, so it's not limited to the MCIs.
The Flxibles use Cummins though don't they? I can't imagine them being as good as Detroit Diesel.
The acceleration on the Metro D buses are much better than those on the Metro B. At least, that's been my experiences with the NJT Flxibles.
I was told that they are up to 2042 now. That means 22 new busses must of come in. Two more 1987 Flxibles and an 1988 has been retired.
Saw her on the q20. She's back in service
she must have been at Lodi (transitalk has pictures of her there) and her front ad was still old. She doesnt look repowered.Any idea why she was there?
flx7595
METROCARD & CARDHOLDERS COLLECTOR¹S CATALOG
This is an 8.5 inch x 11inch 20 page booklet printed by the MTA. They later decided not to distribute it. It contains 20 glossy, color pages of actual size photos of 1997-99 commemorative MetroCards & cardholders. Full color photos of the Subway Series 97, Then and Now, Emigrant, JVC Jazz, Healthy City, Ferry Boat, Yankees 98, Subway Cool, Millennial Journeys, Mets International Week plus 63 Cardholders including the complete Great Subway series. All photos are actual size & full color! A beautiful collector¹s MUST HAVE. The supply is very limited. When they are gone, they are gone.
Send $10.00 ea. plus $2. P & H in check or Money Order. Made out to: Mike Makman,
To: Prof. Putter, Po Box 755, Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
Someone at WMATA isn't thinking (like they ever do). They are keeping the full N7 route AGAIN. They just tried to discontinue it, AGAIN. Now, here are ways for everyone to be happy:
1. Start service at River and Burdette Roads. I've seen not some but pretty much every bus come off the beltway empty last year.
2. Discontinue service north of Glen Echo (old N5). The buses didn't use to make stops on River Road, people can go back to the T2.
3. Discontine the N3. Charge a surcharge for MD passengers only and make local stops in DC. This would only work if plan 2 was done as well.
When the N7 used to be the N9, it used to do really well as far as getting people to ride from Montgomery Mall to DC. Back then, the bus would take the Beltway to I believe the Clara Barton Parkway, or whatever road down there that connects to Canal Road, then it would go across the Whitehurst Frwy and hook up with K St. and continue on its current path. I don't know why anyone would want to take the bus in its current format by riding all over the place and have to crawl down Mass. Ave. and then have to pay the Express surcharge.
I'm almost thinking that the N7 should go back to the N9 route and then align the Mass. Ave. service accordingly to make up for the half dozen or so N7 trips that would be lost from there.
One good thing is that the C8 will now run direct from White Flint Station to College Park-UM station. However, the route description has the C8 taking Nicholson Ln. to Rockville Pike and then I guess making a left on Marinelli. That is a dumb idea since trying to get onto Rockville Pike is a pain in the first place and then having to shoot over to the left lane immediately seems like an accident waiting to happen. They may as well just have it take Nicholson Lane to Executive Blvd, make a right, then a right on Marinelli and up to the station.
I think the C8 is taking the same route as the 40.
The N9 and N5 were merged in 1991 (I think) because of low ridership on the two routes. Separating them would not help things at all.
On Long Island, so many bus stops are trecherous, covered with snow and ice, others blocked by mounds of plowed snow. Today I discovered just how bad the situation in Roslyn is. When I got off my N21 bus at the Clock Tower, out the back door I found myself just barely able to make it out, then I slipped and almost fell. Adding to the danger the bus started moving just several inches away from me. Anyone could have slipped and fell under the bus and got injured. After the bus left I crossed the street shook up, and had to climb over another mound of snow on the bus stop at the other side.
I assume it is the responsibility of the village of Roslyn to clear these stops, as with any village or municipality. Considering this is a transfer point, conditions are quite dangerous.
I am sick of having to climb over snow and ice, this should be cleared from ALL sidewalks.
Could somebody please explain why it's so hard for people to clear their sidewalks of snow? It seems once again as usual, on LI if you don't drive, you're screwed. And you get reminded of it with every snowfall.
Just think of the revenue villages and towns could get, from fines if people don't clear their sidewalks. It does seem on the south shore (such as Levittown or Wantagh) sidewalks were cleared, but on the wild north shore anything goes.
Maybe I should start handing out notices for those who don't clear snow, especially at major streets and bus stops.
>>>Maybe I should start handing out notices for those who don't clear snow, especially at major streets and bus stops.<<<
They'd probably laugh or curse you, that's how people are these days. Besides, I'd love to get off a bus and step into some snow. Unfortuantely, if you step off a bus in some type of wintery weather in Houston, you'll just step into a puddle, or on a bum.
Heard on the news that yet another group of NIMBY's, wants to make a B71 reroute longer than it has to be. The people on Carrol street claim that with the double parking of vehicles buses will make the situation worse. However, shouldn't they want to get rid of the double parking? I suspect their real motive is NIMBY, they just don't want the bus coming down their street. So they want the bus to reroute 12 blocks, instead of the 3, because of their selfish individualistic concerns.
They claim that if the TA does go through with the reroute, they will physically block buses from travling down their street.
Well if they do they should definately be arrested and fined for being a threat to the public transportation system.
If I was driving an RTS through that little neighborhood, I'd put the bus in neutral and gun the engine. I know it gets pretty loud and if there were some other buses, I'd get them to do the same. When the zealots broke ranks to get away from the noise I'd just run right on thru.
I'm sure the TA prohibits buses gunning their engines for no reason, but hey, I'd say I was doing it for the good of public service.
Keep the B71 off of Carroll Street because of double parking. They have really reached a new height of sillyness. They can't possibly believe that - and we know they're just saying it in an attempt to cover up the fact that their selfish.
It just never ends.
Wayne
(Keep the B71 off of Carroll Street because of double parking. They have really reached a new height of sillyness. They can't possibly believe that - and we know they're just saying it in an attempt to cover up the fact that their selfish.)
But you don't see anyone showing up to argue the other side. Everyone is against everything, no one is for anything. As I've said, all buses are losing money, and there are plenty of other places where buses and drivers could be used.
If I were the TA, I would take this opportunity to eliminate the B71, on the grounds that both the community and the city councilmember regard it as a nuisance, not a service, so that Union Street residents would also be "protected." Next thing you know, all those other folks will wake up and take the same position you just did -- and blame DiBrienza and the NIMBYs for the loss of service. What to see a Councilman pivot on a dime?
For good measure, the TA should propose creating a vehicular entrance to Prospect Park at 9th Street (eliminating the one at Third Street), and making Prospect Park West and 8th Avenue two way. This would get the B69 & B75 buses off 15th Street (the could take two way Prospect Park West to 9th Street, the way the trolley used to) and allow bus service through Prospect Park on 9th Street and Empire Boulevard, on a combined B71 and B77 route.
I could understand protesting a permanent relocation of B71 service. But a construction related temporary re-route seems hardly worth the effort, especially considering that the B71 runs with 30+ minute headways. A 9th Street park entrance makes sense. 9th Street is already a heavily traveled 4-lane road, 3rd Street is a purely residential one-way street. But buses through the park? You know that will never happen.
(A 9th Street park entrance makes sense. 9th Street is already a heavily traveled 4-lane road, 3rd Street is a purely residential one-way street. But buses through the park? You know that will never happen.)
It already HAS happened. They've got one of those fake trolley circling the park on weekends, in order to provide Brooklyn residents with access to the park facilities and adjacent institutions. And you've got a shuttle bus outside the park to bring people to the skating rink when it's open -- it enters the park near the rink. Both are infrequent.
A regular bus route through the park would provide a superior alternative. It could run more frequently on weekends than weekdays, and cross all the subway routes. One alternative would be to:
1) Start near the proposed Brooklyn Piers park at Atlantic Avenue,
2) Run down Columbia Street to the areas along the piers in Red Hook,
3) Replace the B77 out of Red Hook and up 9th Street...continue across to Crown Heights as a replacement for the B71,
4) Travel through the park entering at the new 9th Street entrance (3rd Street vehicular entrance closed -- move the statue over there), exiting at Lincoln Road (which would become two-way),
5) Run out on Empire Boulevard, then perhaps up to the Children's Museum.
This route would cross the busy B41 and just about every subway route in Brooklyn. Make Prospect Park West two-way, and you could extend the B68 to a new terminal on Grand Army Plaza, crossing the new route as well.
Also buy plenty of batteries for the upcoming summer. Thanks to NIMBY's, the NYPA can't get new generators built. So look for power shortages and blackouts.
Only in America can a rich, powerful few thrart the will of the majority since $$ rules. Meanwhile there's more power to go around in places like Singapore, Guanxi, and Quingdao than in NYC.
(Only in America can a rich, powerful few thrart the will of the majority since $$ rules.)
A rich and powerful few can thwart things anywhere in the world. The difference is that in New York, a few can always thwart things, even if they are not rich and powerful.
Isn't Carroll street in Park slope a very expensive block?
Plain and simply put, DOUBLE PARKING IS ILLEGAL-PERIOD. I don't what nieghbor hood you live in. the mayor of this city cracks down on double parkers all the time so this is pointless. so my gues is they have enough muscle to make it this way. this is selfish and ridiculous. this city could never have anything now days because eveyonce complaind that it will bring their property down or lose sleep or it won't be safe etc.etc.etc. The subway and buses that runtoday would have never been able to exsit if we have people like this out there all the time. People complian all the time there is not enough service or not enough buses and trains or whatever and when the ta wants to build more storage space every one complains. maybe the peoole on carrol don't care for the 71 but there are people who use that bus. If you want to be morons and break the law, go ahead i would love to see a couple of these people get their cars towed. If doulbe parking is illiegal across this city then that does not exclude the these nimbys either. so i dare these folks to do what the threaten to do. unbelievable
In Park Slope and many other neighborhoods residents are not ticketed for double parking only during the periods of alternate side parking restrictions. Double parking is still illegal but the NYPD is lenient about it to make life easier local auto owners. In my old Brooklyn neighborhood double-parking was permitted under the same unofficial arrangement.
Also there seems to be alot of double parking in Little Neck and Bayside. Buses often get stuck behind these cars and lose time trying to get around them.
Chalk another one for the car driving elite.
I think double parkers should be fined $500 the first time, $1000 the second time, doubling with each offense. Refusal to pay fine will result in car seizure until it is paid.
You obviously dont have a car in NYC or Westchester
Street cleaning and SNOW removal is horrible up here,,in Westchester,,you dont have a choice,,when you get home at night ,like I do
I am a NYC Fireman,,my hours are strange,,I can not get blocked in ,,either,,,
Do you have a Driveway or Private Lot,,??
Steve
Hopefully if the NIMBY protestors do block buses, they can be arrested. That'll shut 'em up! The buses will roll, and anybody in their way will be arrested.
If they do it again we'll flog 'em right in front of passing B71 buses. Wow, what an embarrasment! :-o
Saw her in service this morning on the X-64.
Thank You
GOOD!!!! Glad she's STILL doing Express Service!
X64#1755Gary
Neoplans, my favorite buses. Quite stylish, and interestingly nice. So comfortable, and just, someone I enjoy riding. However, there are plenty of people here that are against these lovable buses. There are many people here that hate this amazing design, the smart yet comfortable design. There are some people here that hate all buses other than those stuck up RTS buses, and then there are people aching for the new looks. After all, the neoplans are amazingly adorable. How could you hate those adorable Orion Is? They are so cute when they are small, and then you just hate them all. SHAME ON YOU, FOR HATING THESE ADORABLE CHILDREN, THE CUTEST THINGS IN THE TRANSIT INDUSTRY.Just love them, just like the Neoplans, the RTSs aren't cute, they are just snotty stuck up buses. Love the children, and the lovely Neoplans.
I know a lot of drivers at SEPTA who would agree with you. Most of the drivers I know at SEPTA would rather take an older Neo than one of the newer NABIs. These buses - surprisingly enough - have lasted as long, if not longer, than some of the RTS-3 buses that SEPTA owned.
Once the 200 D40LF buses arrive by the end of next year, a lot of the 8600-, 8700-, and 8800-series buses (1984-1985) will be gone. These are the buses with a 6V92TA and Allison 4-speed transmission. The 3000-series buses (1986-89) - with a 6V92TA and ZF transmission - will still be around for a few more years, possibly as late as 2004-2005.
If you've ever riden on the older D40LF buses which the PA run at the airports, the sound of those buses is similar to the sounds of a 3000-series Neo in Philly.
That's awful how they are taking away those Neoplans. They are awesome as well as very nice. I really hoped to be able to drive one of the Neos when I would grow up, but if they are retired that earlier, I might not be able to drive one! Also, about the D40LF buses, I'm glad they have an engine that sounds like the 3000 series Neos. That it my favorite engine and transmission sound, and I think it's the most interesting of engines out of all engines in buses. I hope that SEPTA keeps getting orders of buses from Neoplan if they are able to. After all, I personally think Neos are the nicest buses in the transit industry, and SEPTA deserves to have them.
Wait a minute! Are you SERIOUS? I dunno, but they are not so cracked up to be. I think the Detroit Diesel Series 50 is one of the best. They're in SEPTA's NABI 416's, the Noe artics, the TA's D60 artics, their Orion V's... They're great. MY favorite is the engine in NYCT's RTS-06's. Simply the best! Ooooooooohhhhh! Sorry. I just like it that much ever since the first ones in '93. Hey, mister, try the RTS or Orion V for a change.
I've ridden Orion Vs before, and I have ridden the NABIs extensively, adn I rode a Neo articulated. I think I rode an NYCT RTS-06, i'm not sure though. In my opinion, it sorta sounded a good bit like that RTSs that I have ridden before (SEPTA's and WMATA now exinct RTSs) yet there was a difference. Personally, i liked the engines of those RTSs better, since there was a good bit of variation) Now, I like the NABIs engines, although that "wwrrrrr" is a little bit too loud, and on the Neo artics, you could barely hear the engine over the air conditioning, so what is there to listen to? The Orion V's (at least the later ones on WMATA's fleet) sound just like the NABIs, only without that "wrrrr". I'm not saying that the ZF transmission 6v92TA engines are the best in acceleration and durablility and stuff like that, but I love listening to them, especially when the gear shift from 1st to 2nd to 3rd. However, if I had to rate my favorite engines, it would be the 6v92TA with the ZF transmition first, and then the 6v92TA with teh Allison Transimition, and then the NABI engines, the DDC Alison Transmittion?
Wait a minute! Are you SERIOUS? I dunno, but they are not so cracked up to be. I think the Detroit Diesel Series 50 is one of the best. They're in SEPTA's NABI 416's, the Neoplan artics, the TA's D60 artics, their Orion V's... They're great. MY favorite is the engine in NYCT's RTS-06's. Simply the best! Ooooooooohhhhh! Sorry. I just like it that much ever since the first ones in '93. Hey, mister, try the RTS or Orion V for a change.
The DD50 engine in some of the mid-to-late 1990's RTS buses (not just the ones in NYC) have that distinctive sound that I don't think you can hear on any other bus - except for some of the Baltimore MTA Flxibles.
I have ridden both the Orion V and the Orion I, as well as the 416s and the Neo artics, and you can barely hear the engine over the air conditioning in the artics as well as the Vs and RTSs, although it may be good for most people it's boring for me. I could barely make out the engine gear changing pattern on the one modern RTS that I rode in NY. (one that was made in the 90's. I like the engine of the 3000 series because it has an extremely unique pattern that you would never hear anywhere else, and I would be very sorry to see this nice buses leave, only to be replaced with other buses (Hopefully new Neos maybe?)
I've thought The Allison Transmissions on The 8000-series Neoplans were 5-speed.
As one who is considered a Neoplan basher based on some previous posts, I do have to say overall they are a pretty decent bus, especially the AN435/AN440 models. My main problem with Neoplan was mostly with one particular order that PAT in Pittsburgh received in 1983. Those were poorly constructed but the AN440's they received in 1986 were built well and did a lot to change my opinion around on Neoplan. Part of the 1983 order problem was I felt Neoplan overextended itself with 1,000 buses at once and rushed the production some.
I always have liked the appearance of the Neoplan AN440 design and they are solid with minimal squeeks and rattles as opposed to another well loved bus by some in this group that you need ear plugs to ride on due to the constant squeeks and rattles. Even the 83's didn't have the squeeks and rattles, just a lot of rust and other problems but as I said the 86's were put together well.
Current problems PAT has with the Neoplan low floors is mostly due to having unproven technology incorporated on them (new rear axle design not used before) but that issue was more PAT's fault than Neoplans as PAT specified the axle to be used and should have had the axle tested at the Altoona bus testing center which they didn't. Again the bus is designed nice although I liked the AN440 back end better than the back end Neoplan uses now on the low floors and AN460's.
Here as well as Philly, drivers tend to go for the older Neoplan buses over the newer offerings. Personally I enjoy seeing the remaining Neo's in service (not many left but they're out a lot).
Still though, given a choice (which I don't have anymore), I'd wait for a New Look over a Neo. It's what you were brought up with in most cases that you tend to favor the most (not always but usually) and I was brought up with the New Looks but do respect other coaches (even the RTS's) as each has some positive points.
RDChilds
I just love that high pitched whine they make in first gear. I ride one of the NEO's every time I'm in Philly just to hear that sound.
Chuck Greene
Did you actually think I could see this thread, read the favorable responses, and NOT give my two cents? I'll try not to be TOO harsh.
First of all, the 1986 AN430s Metro-Houston recieved had rust and body problems and ALWAYS squeaked, and please Basman, don't blame it on our maintenence becuase we are damn good in da dirty south. Anyway, I don't see how these rolling rust buckets made it to the age of 13 and 14. The only thing I liked about them was they had a Grumman rip-off engine. No one really buys Neoplans because they fall apart after only a few years of service, they're below average as far as looks, and they have average operating performance. The artics we have here are so woefully underpowred it's sad.
As for the RTS rattling and squeaking, you can blame that on the windows. Besides, Flxibles are 10x worse as far as rattling and squeaking goes, but no one seems to mention what bad buses Flxibles were until 1985.
You can bash the RTS, love inferior designs, and long for your New Looks all you wish, but let's get some things straight; (1) New Looks are dead design wise and are critically endangered activity wise, (2) Neoplans have been proven inferior to RTS buses as have most others, including later versions of the RTS, (3) There are very few TAs that buy anything but specialy model Neoplans. By specialty I mean 30 and 60ft. models. Only a few TAs have devoted mega orders to Neoplan for a 40ft. model. They should just stick to making suburban coaches.
Now, I'm sure some of you may respond with more RTS bashing, but unless you're a bus driver, driven an RTS, or have some type of inside info, none of you can dispute the FACTS that I have stated about the RTS. All the facts that I have compiled come to one undeniable conclusion, barring asthetic opinions and comfort opinions, the RTS is the best bus in the transit industry. As Chris Benoit says, PROVE ME WRONG!!!!!
But, not to make this thread a total bust; any transit model of Neoplans are decent to poor. Commuter Neoplans are a little above average. That's the only leeway I'll give them.
Don't worry, I was expecting you to reply. Also, I'm glad that someone finally agrees with me that the New Look is a dead design. Plus, I only said that RTSs had a stuck up look to them. It's like how NABIs seem to be incredibly happy and bright, while New Looks look sad and Flxible Metros look downright miserable (emotionally, not design-wise). Anyway, i guess our Neoplans are different, because I don't remember ever riding a SEPTA Neoplan and hearing it squeak. About the Flxible metros ( I don't rmember teh New Looks well enough) there also was a lot of rattling, and i almost thought that all buses were suppose to be this way (at this time I haven't really ridden SEPTA buses yet). What I liked about SEPTA's RTS buses now that I think of it was that wooden panel by the front door (where there would be a glass panel. Now, I guess I should say this, due to your points and such, that each company makes a bus good or bad. Now, obviously SEPTA's Neoplans and Houston's Neoplans are quite different, and I don't really care what other TA's think or what bus is better for everyone's life. I just think that Neoplan buses are the nicest, as in nice, maybe not out of this world fantastically stylish, but it's nice, and has a nicer design, at least interiorwise, than the RTS bus. To be honest, not to offend anyone else here or to make them angry, i had always thought, especially when I was growing up before I knew a lot about buses, that SEPTA had better buses than the WMATA and the SEPTA buses were "upper class" while every other company had lower class buses or buses that weren't as good as ours. However, some companies in Florida have really nice buses that are the hated Gilligs and NABIs.
>>>Plus, I only said that RTSs had a stuck up look to them.<<<
I've seen RTS that look angry, determined, and smug. Usually smug. Once, I saw an RTS that looked worried. It was bus 2060. It was June 4, 2000 and the new serivce changes had gone into effect and the first batch of 28xx and 29xx D40LFs had arrived, 2060 pulled in and looked battered. When she pulled off it seemed like it was the end. And it was, I never saw her again...until I saw her at the auction lot. She had a smiley-face painted on the windshield and still had that worried fearful look.
[Only a few TAs have devoted mega orders to Neoplan for a 40ft. model. They should just stick to making suburban coaches.]
Add San Francisco to that list. Then again, the GM at SF Muni used to work at SEPTA, not that it means anything...
[Now, I'm sure some of you may respond with more RTS bashing, but unless you're a bus driver, driven an RTS, or have some type of inside info, none of you can dispute the FACTS that I have stated about the RTS. All the facts that I have compiled come to one undeniable conclusion, barring asthetic opinions and comfort opinions, the RTS is the best bus in the transit industry. As Chris Benoit says, PROVE ME WRONG!!!!!]
I can't disagree with that post, but it seems fewer TAs are going with the RTS. Long-time RTS strongholds (NYCTA, MBTA, LACMTA) are going with other companies, so we'll see what happens.
As for Mr. Benoit, he certainly looked great this past Monday night against Chris Jericho, now didn't he... =)
[But, not to make this thread a total bust; any transit model of Neoplans are decent to poor. Commuter Neoplans are a little above average. That's the only leeway I'll give them.]
I guess that depends on what city you're in. Perhaps the Houston Neos aren't as good as the ones in Philadelphia, but LACMTA drivers have had a litany of problems with their newer CNG Neos. Part of the problem might be that the CNG model of the Neoplans are junk, while other models - ie. the 1980s Neos - aren't that bad.
Centro in Syracuse, NY just retired a fleet of Neoplan AN440s built in 1987. They were all rusted out and rattled terribly, but they were popular with Centro's drivers.
Jim (RailBus)
Wow. well, I guess you can blame the rust on the material used to built them, but I mean, SEPTA didn't even retire their 1984 AN440 models and they work just fine, and they don't even rattle.
The Syracuse Neoplans sure rattled. The worst part on some of these buses was the vibration that came up into the bus interior from the engine compartment, especially when the bus was stopped but still in gear. It was so annoying that I'd have to stop reading by book or paper, because I couldn't think!
Jim (RailBus)
Your description of the Syracus Neoplans reminds me of the 1990 Metro B's on the WMATA bus fleet. Unless the driver let up on the brake pedal, the bus would rattle a lot.
I don't have much else to say other than that I too am a Neoplan advocate. They are sharply designed; not too boxy but at the same time simple and elegant.
Neoplan tends to get a lot of bad press for horror stories involving their buses in the early 80's and more recently for the Pittsburgh ordeal with the axles. However, the rust and corrosion problems were characteristic of Neoplan's first few years on the market. They corrected the problem, and today, their buses rarely suffer from such ailments. And, as RDChilds said, the axle problem in Pittsburgh is much more PATransit's fault than that of Neoplan.
I have been impressed by Neoplan buses coast-to-coast. The "Olympic" series buses in Los Angeles (3300-3714, 1984 Transliner AN-440-A's) are still mostly in service even though they are pushing 17 years old. And as much as I love RTS's, the 3300's have held up a lot better than the 8200-series RTS's of 1981. Most of the 1984 Neoplans are still in service in LA, whereas MTA began massive block retirements of the 8200's beginning in 1995.
In Philadephia, after some initial problems which Neoplan solved, the Neoplan AN-440-A went on to become the workhorse of the SEPTA bus fleet during the 80's, 90's, and into the current decade. Like participants from Philly say, drivers always much prefer the Neoplans over the Ikarus/NABI's (although that is not to say that I don't like NABI's.) I like the New Flyer D40LF, and SEPTA made a farily good decision in choosing this bus, but I would not be incredibly surprised if SEPTA starts buying more standard-floor, 40-foot Neoplans after the New Flyer order is complete.
Even in Pittsburgh, where in the mid 80's the 3500's had major problems, in the end, they were considered sound and reliable buses.
I like all of Neoplan's standard, off-the-shelf offerings, and the fact that they are willing to work with TA's to build buses for special custom applications is admirable.
Neil
¡Qué viva el subjuntivo!
>>>And as much as I love RTS's, the 3300's have held up a lot better than the 8200-series RTS's of 1981. Most of the 1984 Neoplans are still in service in LA, whereas MTA began massive block retirements of the 8200's beginning in 1995.<<<
Which buses do you think worked the hardest, the RTS buses or the Neoplans? BTW, the last 82s were retired in 2000 at the age of 19.
Sorry it seems like I need to defend every post that even casts a shadow of a doubt that the RTS isn't a superior product, but I must. If I knew nothing about buses, I'd probably hate the RTS due to some of the things I've heard on here.
RTS_2150, notice that I concealed that minor criticism of RTS's in a complement for them. You need to stop letting a few negative words about RTS's taint your opinion of an entire post. You obviosly are very knowledgeable, but I probably speak for more than just myself by saying that I enjoy reading FEEDBACK on my posts more than encountering your canned RTS propaganda which seems to be triggered by every word.
BTW, I love the RTS too. Look at -my- frickin' handle! When you praise RTS's to me, you're preachin' to the choir. So don't worry. You don't need to convert me, I'm already singing an RTS gospel!
Anyway, I'm nearly sure that about 250 of the 8200's in LA are still in service as we speak. Outside of those still operated by MTA, about 100 have been pulled from MTA service, rehabbed, and then put back on the streets on the routes of contractors, or sold to smaller transit systems in the area. Also, MTA recently had some RTS-03's from Orange County in service. I think these are now gone.
I'll say it again, I love the RTS. But just because the RTS is a great bus does not mean that other bus models cannot be quality vehicles as well. In the case of MTA and other properties, other buses, IN ADDITION TO THE RTS, have proven their worthiness. As much as I like the RTS, I also like variety in a fleet.
You complain how some of us, myself included, mourn the downfall of the GM New Look. Your argument is that in its heyday, it was just 'another bus.' That's exactly why we like the remaining units which are still in service; they are representatives of a bygone era. Will they be around forever? Of course not, but it is cool to see a little bit of 1966 in the year 2001. If there were a fleet of 10,000 RTS's, you probably would not think very much of each one at the peak of RTS dominance in that fleet. But say that TA started to gradually replace its RTS's with Orions and Gilligs and Neoplans. Each RTS would become more and more special. By the time only a few were left to operate only in peak hours, you would go out of your way to ride them. That's the current allure of the New Look. They were once ubiquitous, but now they are rare. It's very cool.
Despite your hardball tactics defending the RTS, I often agree with the fundamentals of your arguments and value your contribution to the board.
Neil
While I cannot speak for their transit buses, I have experience with their road buses even though it is older stuff (1985 vintage).
Simply put, they were pieces of shit.
They looked pretty, but you never knew what part was going to fall off. The bodies were built like motorhomes. The wiring was a f-ing nightmare, no color code....if they ran a wire from front to back, and the wire wasn't long enough, they just tape-spliced it. The a/c systems, no matter what type used, would fail if you hit a bump the wrong way. Interior fittings would always be falling apart. And this was on BRAND NEW buses.
As I said, though, these were 1985-vintage Jetliners, Spaceliners, N117/3 Cityliners, and N122/3 double-deckers. The one thing I can say good about these buses that I drove was some of the N177/3's had air-cooled Deutz 12-cylinder engines. Those buses would FLY!!!!! The ones we had that had the Detroit 6V92's were seriously underpowered, so we kept them around town for local work. I made quite a few LA-San Fran trips in my regular Deutz-engined N177/3 in 6.5 hours (which is flying for a tour bus....) The Jetliners I drove were used on airport runs, and the baggage doors had this uncanny habit of falling off the bus. I didn't like the Spaceliner as you sat so low when driving if felt like your ass was gonna burn from pavement friction.
Wow, well, the only buses of Neoplan I have ever ridden were SEPTA's Neoplan fleet, and they always seemed pretty good enough, and they were all 1980's models. And I think they are the nicest looking buses in the US. I'm not saying that the RTS looks like crap, it looks "stylish" if you can put it, but it's not nice in my opinion. I personally think they look nicer without the sloped back than when they did.
You're basing all your ravings about Neoplans on the fact that the ONLY ones you have RIDDEN are those in Philadelphia? Geez.
If you want to compare buses, it would be a lot more credible if you drove them for a living or maintained them for a living. Then, what you say about how good or bad a bus might be believable. All the raving in the world doesn't mean a thing if all you have done is ride on them as a passenger.
Hey, if the costumer likes it, it's good. Besides, I said they were nice looking buses and comfortable enough that I could just relax and sleep in one. Also, about badly rusted bodies that Neos have in Houston the RTS_2150 mentioned, now that I really think of it, i remember seeing a Neo with this badly rusted roof at 69th Street once time. I wonder what happened to it... Also, SEPTA supposedly has (or had) the safest bus fleet in the nation after discovering how some of their buses were corroding, however, I just guessed it was those Volvos, which looked much older in my opinion than they really were. In my old opinion, I had thought they had looked a little bit like a Neoplan.
Anyway, back to you message. Even if i may not know what it's like to maintain and fix a bus firsthand, it doesn't mean I don' t know the uncomfortable feeling when you can feel the motor when you are sitting right above it, or that I don't know the sound of an engine. If I compared an MCI to a school bus and said that the MCI was much better, do I have to go around mumbling technical information about this and that to prove my point? No, I can say, well, the MCIs have much softer seats, more head and leg room, beter lighting, air conditioning, and lots of stuff like that. And another thing, if every other Neoplan is really as bad as RTS_2150 says they are, well, you can't really yell at SEPTA's maintainance crew, can you?
274 288 and 313 in service repowered out of stengel
288 < no new paint, broken right brake light, and the super small numbers on the rear
313 < no new paint
why not kill 2 birds with one stone and do the whole job?
The answer's simple. If T/A painted those repowered buses, then that means they would have to scrap them the following week, like they always do.
BIG AL
Saw 263 276 and 291 back in Service too.
Were 288 and 313 repowered? And no new paint job or lights? How sad.
flx7595
Saw 267 and 286 in Flushing today and it seemed like they did absolutely nothing to these buses. I thought the repower is supposed to be an appearance just like the 6000 Orions with an exhaust pipe on top. I'm clueless.
Q26#141Gary
They have not been repowered yet.
They were painted sometime last year b4 they started the repower program.
Yesterday, I decided to take a day trip to Washington D.C. BOY, was it worth the while!
The day started with a ride on Amtrak's Metroliner Service out of Penn Station at 7am. We arrived in DC 15 minutes ahead of schedule at 9:50am. Once detraining, I was shocked by the site of some new MARC Rail Kawasaki Double Decker Commuter Cars, these babies are awesome (They beat the LIRR Double Deckers).
After drooling over the cars for about 10 minutes, I walked outside of Union Station where several buses were standing (A Flxible Metro-D, A Y2K Orion V, A Orion VI, and a Orion II). After exploring the Orion VI. A turned tail and headed for the Metrorail station. Once on the platform, I noticed a few changes from the last time I was there, they now have signs on the platform that tell you how long the next train will be along (mines was 3 minutes). After boarding the Red line train, I proceeded to Gallery Place and transferred to the Green line train to Anacostia. After arriving at Anacostia, I snooped around there to peep some of the equipment (Gillig Phantoms, Orion VI, Orion V, Flxible Metro-D, Flxible Metro-E, Flxible Metro-B).
After about 20 minutes at Anacostia, I reboarded my Green line train and headed to L'Efant Plaza, there I transferred to the Orange line and headed out to Vienna, Virginia. After that 25 minute trek, I realized it was all in vain, there was no buses to be seen at Vienna. So I again, reboared the same Orange line train and headed back to L'Efant Plaza. There I transferred to a Yellow line train and headed to Gallery Place. There I transferred back to the Red line and headed to my favorite spot, Silver Spring Metro Station. But of course got side tracked at Fort Totten when I spotted the Auction Lot full of GMC New Looks and GMC RTS-03s (So you know I had to get off for this). At the Auction lot there was also a Old AM General Metropolitan in the distant field, I remember riding those buses when I lived in MD for a while. Those buses were death traps, horrible brakes.
After about 15 minutes at the lot I continued onto Silver Spring, when arriving at Silver Spring, I was greeted by a slew of Buses (WMATA Orions, Flxibles, NABIs, MANs and Ride On Orions and Gilligs). Photo ops were on at this stop, I must've burned at least 50 images there alone. After taking the photos, I headed to the J2 Metro stop and waited, to my surprise a Orion V Suburban pulled in as my bus, I damn near had a brain hemerage. I rode this wonderful bus to Medical Center and reboarded the Red line train and headed to Rockville. There at Rockville I was greeting by a nice surpise of new Orion V CNGs 40 footers for Ride On, WOOHOO! I rode one on the 59 line to Shady Grove, these buses are by far the best CNG buses I've ever been on (Powered by Detroit Diesel Series 50 and a Voith D863ADR). After arriving in Shady Grove, I was again greeted with a slew of buses (Ride On's Flxible Metro-B 30 Footers, Flxible Metro-D 40 Footers, Orion V CNGs and Orion Is). After drooling there for about 30 minutes, it was off to Lakeforest Mall for lunch.
After a plesant lunch and walk around the mall. I proceed back to the Lakeforest Transit Center by the mall and boarded a J8 Metro bus to Bethesda, again I was greeted by a nice Orion V Suburban, those buses are great, we averaged 70 MPH going down I-270. Arriving in Bethesda, I was going to reboard the Red line train, BUT a NABI Model 436 Articulated pulled in on the J2 to Silver Spring, so I couldn't resist. After arriving back at Silver Spring, there I reboarded the Red line train to Union Station. After arriving in Union Station, I peeked around outside for about 20 miuntes, then headed to my Amtrak train back to NYC (Depressing after this kinda day)!
I advise those who haven't been to DC or Maryland, GO!!!! The equipment there is just gorgeous!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I wish I had tagged along!!! Sounds like you had a great day down here. Now that some of the SmartMover service has been cut back, a lot of those Orion V suburbans are making their way onto local routes. They are definitely a nice surprise. I had one a few months ago when I took the 38B.
The Ride On Orions, both diesel and CNG, 40 footers, are definitely the best looking Orions I've ever seen. I haven't been on one yet, though. The 40 foot Flixble Metro D must have been one of the ex Baltimore MTA buses that they finally have up and running. I saw one to my delight one day on the 46 in Rockville.
I definitely agree that those who want to busfan down here would have a great time. If you want to ride RTS's in the area, go to the West Falls Church Metro station on the orange line and ride the Fairfax Connector. The 905 is a great ride as it takes the Dulles Toll Road. Well, most of them from WFC do, but the 905 runs 7 days a week, all day. Happy bus riding!!!
The 46 always has such interesting buses, and I never get to ride it anymore since I'm too old for Kids R Us. Anyway, what get's on my nerves is that now my father has his own method of transportation, we never take the bus, so unless I demand to take the bus and train somewhere, we never do, and I miss out on a lot of the new buses, and I haven't ridden a Flxible bus in so many years! I didn't even get to have one last ride on the RTS buses. Also, what annoys me more is that I'm really missing out on Ride on buses. Now that he moved out of Montgomery county, we never use Ride On at all, which is a little sad, and we don't even really go to Silver Spring anymore. I still remember when the 1991 Orion Is were brand new, and back then the Orion V's barely existed. I think I reallly only saw 1 or 2 in my lifetime, before the 40ft Orions came.
How old are you? If you're old enough, just catch the bus wherever you want to go by yourself. If I lived in Philly, I'd never be home until eleven. It's a paradise out there, compared to here.
Hehe, in Philly I know where I'm going, yet I don't really know Maryland extremely well, despite the fact that I had a "second home" there all my life.
Trevor,
Glad to hear you had a good time here. Did you get the feeling that you might want to move back again??? I agree that the variety of buses here is awesome. Silver Spring is my favorite spot also. Many times when I come to Silver Spring from Bethesda I will stand there for a while especially during rush hours. The Pentagon is another favorite, but I don't get over there too often.
Wayne
I go to DC every chance I get (which has only been three times in my life thus far,) and I can say that it is not only one of the coolest cities in the country, but it is also a phenomal place for transit spectators.
Last year, I had a free day in DC, and I spend TWELVE solid hours on buses and trains about the Nation's Capitol Region. Armed with an all-day bus pass, an all-day farecard, and a low-value farecard for my rail trips taking place before 9.30a, that was the most happiness $9.50 can buy! That was the best day of my life!
I have logged hour upon hour at Silver Spring; it has to be one of the greatest transitwatching spots in the entire nation. Over the course of my transit enthusiasm career, I have probably taken upwards of 300 photographs there alone. Last time I was there, and much to my chagrin, a Metrobus supervisor violently grabbed me by the shoulder, took my camera out of my hand, and very expressly told me that "Takin' pictures of Metrobuses is illegal!" She handed me camera back to me, and I attempted to pick her knowledge about the buses themselves. She would not answer any of my questions, and informed me that she would call the cops if she saw me snap another shot. I stepped off of the station's property and began to take pictures again from across Colesville Road. These pictures actually ended up being some of the best ones. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if I had been arrested! It probably would have been for the better. I would imagine that the police would have been so amused by the harmless nature of my 'crime' that they would have hooked me up with someone at Metrobus to give me free photos and the other Metrobus info which I so crave.
Surprisingly, I found the Pentagon a much friendlier place to take photos. Metrobus supervisors there just chuckled and nodded at my activity.
I also have a lot of awesome pictures of Metrobuses navigating busy DC streets. Metrobuses are beautiful; I cannot resist them.
For a while in 2000, it was looking like it was only going to be a matter of time before the entire Metrobus fleet was Orions. The New Looks were retired, the new buses were the same as models already in the fleet, it was a mess of assimilation, and I was very worried.
Now, with the New Flyer order (anyone have more details?) and more small buses and artics likely on the way, Metrobus will remain an diverse and eventful fleet. Awesome.
The two last time I was in DC, I was getting bad vibes from Ride On. Finally, on my super-day, I just had to ride. I rode a 40-series route (route 47 perhaps) from Montgomery Mall to Grosvenor. It was an Orion I. My one ride was a good experience, but I need to get a better read on Ride On. (try saying that ten times fast) When I saw my first Orion V 40-foot, I could not believe it. I believe it was bus (99)5407 on Route 12 upon approach to Silver Spring. I understand they also have some Orion VI's now. When did these 40-foot buses suddenly infiltrate the fleet? Ride On had been probably the largest transit system with -no- 40-foot buses. Interesting.
Anyway, I am envious of your journey to DC, Trevor. At least it's good to know that other people are out there appreciating the Metrobus fleet just as much as I.
Neil
47 is the Montgomery Mall to Grosvenor bus. It also goes to Rockville. On weekends, it only goes from the mall to Rockville and there is no Sunday service.
Someone actually tried to stop you from taking pictures at Silver Spring? She should have been spending more time making sure the buses were running on time rather than worrying about someone snapping photos. I don't think the CIA or KGB will be purchasing transit buses anytime soon.
Living in Ballston, my balcony overlooks North Randolph Street and then if you turn to your left, you can see the tail end of the bus bays on Stuart Street. I can usually hear the buses roaring down N. Randolph at night and early in the mornings and if I'm semi conscious, i try to figure out what bus is actually passing by. It used to be better when there were metal plates all over N. Randolph because when the buses hit them it sounded like an explosion. I feel bad for those that lived on that side!!
I think all in all, Silver Spring and the Pentagon are the tops for bus pictures. The Pentagon allows you photo ops for WMATA, Fairfax Connector, DASH and Prince William County buses.
The non CNG 40 foot Ride Ons started showing up within the last couple of years or so. The Orion VI has been around for a few years and is used in upper county routes (41-90). Since the only CNG refueling station is at the Ride On lot at Shady Grove, they just keep the buses up in that area.
Northern routes are 43 and up, not including 92.
Actually, the 92 is a Shady Grove route, proved that yesterday with the equipment ran on the route, those were Gaithersburg Garage buses!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Neil, I agree here. I had a similar mishap in nearby Richmond; after being told to go to the garage office to check first, I found that it was closed, so I said screw it and took a few snapshots. As I was ready to return to my car, another driver cornered me, interrogated the hell out of me, and finally I told him that I didn't want any trouble, handed over my freshly-purchased disposable camera, and left the area post haste since he threatened to call the police. What a welcome wagon for someone visiting from out of town.
I can see where there would be concern, but that guy went just a little too far, saying things such as he didn't know who I was and who I was working for. People who work for transit companies should be more supportive of our interest; after all, in some cases, that's what keeps their buses on the road and thus helps them keep their jobs. It's not like we're committing industrial espionage or anything. Note to all transit workers; lighten up, people...we are your customers and your friends. We're here to ensure your future.
Some bus/train operators might be more receptive than others to having pictures taken, so all you have to do is ask (nicely, of course), "May I take a picture of your (vehicle)?"
If the sign says, "No Trespassing" and you're trespassing, chances are there are going to be seriously p***ed off bus drivers wanting your hide in the back of a transit police car.
Not all bus drivers are mean ogres who look like Tony Soprano and have an attitude besides. But some bus drivers don't want to have their pictures taken, and that's probably the reason the driver gave you the third degree. On the flip side, there are bus drivers who would all but give you the keys to a bus and let you drive it around the lot, and let you take pictures until your camera blew up.
Yeah, bus drivers should respect us, but we should also respect bus drivers too.
About the 40 ft buses, I had been surprised when I heard about them. For on thing, when I was young, there were only 30ft buses. Then, in the mid 1990s, there were 35ft Gilligs and Orion V's, and now the 40ft buses. I heard that they had the Orion VIs from 1995, but they are used in the Rockville area probably (40series and up?) Here is one thing, Rockville always had different buses than Silver Spring. They had the Orion I's from 1985 while Silver Spring was running the TMCs (I called the Orion Is that were in the same scheme as the TMCs the "black bumpered" buses while the TMCs were the one with the white bumpers) Also, Metrobuses are one of the most unique buses out there, interior wise. Where else would you find buses with a "wooden" interior? I certainly haven't seen any. Also, back to Ride-On, it's a really nice company with nice clean buses, and I don't care what anyone says, I feel that Ride-On is the best small bus company in the nation.
Wow, that does sound nice, even if you didn't ride any RTS buses. I have to say WMATA does have a pretty diverse fleet, even though it killed off many of the buses that made it a busfans wet dream.
I listened to a CNG Orion today on TW, and it kind of reminded me of a Grumman engine, very little, but it was there. The Orion with the 6v92TAs sounded like old MCI motor ocahces, which isn't a bad thing. I can learn to live with that.
Also, things are looking good for WMATA becuase they have those attractive looking Orions (the 2000 series), and are getting New Flyers. I can accept the old RTS buses will have to make way for the Flyers because hey, the C40LFs are superior to RTS-03s.
BTW, have you ever ridden a C40LF? I have (we have five of them) and they're great buses. They're slightly slower than a D40LF but they're still head and shoulders above our remaining RTS acceleration wise. I have to say the D40LF is the bus of the fututre and the C40LF is the best CNG bus.
I hope to someday visit DC. I know the New Looks and RTS will be gone, but mayve, just maybe, I'll learn to love something new.
The WMATA RTS were never great to begin with. In the new fleet of Orions, they are really out of place. I am not that sad to see them go for they were helpful in a commuting way but not in a busfan's perspective.
RTS is not all bad, it is inferior to the other WMATA buses.
Cut those RTS's some slack. WMATA had RTS-03's when the design was still in its infancy. Yes, they had lots of problems with them, but nonetheless, they gave Washington 21 years of faithful service; a few of them still soldier on with no love to show for it.
These were always my least favorite Metrobuses to ride, the interiors were horrible. Still, I always thought the RTS looked good in the Metrobus paint scheme.
I would like to more RTS Metrobuses from Nova.
I wouldn't say faithful if I was you, for approximately 3 years or more, the GMC RTS-03s for WMATA were pulled out of service.
I happened to have witness the reason why, A lady feel out the back door of one of the RTSs will it was in motion, after this incident, WMATA pulled those RTSs right outta service. Sent them off to have all of the rear doors replaced.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I remember when that happened. It was about 10 years ago on the L8 going around Chevy Chase Circle. I think the bus was impounded too. It was bus 9048 and the only reason why I knew that was that I was on that bus soon after it was cleared to go back in service and the doors got stuck and all I thought of was, "For a bus that was just involved in a court case, you'd think the least Metro could do would be to fix those doors."
I'm going to be a good boy and ignore this. Anyway, they lasted 20+ years and WMATA didn't have to keep them that long. Just becuase YOU all didn't like them doesn't mean they didn't have their strong points. I'm trying to be less critical of other bus designs so I'm not going to bring up any others buses that had to be pulled from service, PERMANANTLY(sp?). Instead, I'm going to admit, as I have so many times before, the RTS-03 was an inferior design, compared to today's buses and other RTS. That's all I'm going to say. I shall bite my tongue.
Hey, when I saw this bus for the first time as a kid, I thought it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. Never seen a bus with a slopeback or doors that popped open like a space ship. Of course, once you got inside, you suffocated from lack of decent AC, but, it was my favorite in 1979.
I think they should have given the newer models a chance, though. You still have an RTS fan down here RTS_2150!!!
With the January schedule change, NJT has split the 67 line which connects the US 9 corridor in Central Jersey with Newark, Jersey City, Hoboken, and Weehawken.
Route 67 will continue to operate daily between US 9 (Lakewood/Toms River) and Newark Penn Station.
New Route 64 will operate between Lakewood and Jersey City (Exchange Place, Grove St, Journal Square, and Newport), Hoboken Terminal, and Weehawken/Lincoln Harbor.
Route 64 service is being sub-divided into 4 separate branches (all AM trips terminate at Lincoln Harbor):
64H - Lakewood to Lincoln Harbor via Grove St, Exchange Place, Pavonia-Newport, and Hoboken; selected PM trips will terminate at Aldrich Rd P&R
64J - Lakewood to Lincoln Harbor via Grove St, Exhcange Place, and Journal Square
64N - Lakewood to Lincoln Harbor via Grove St, Exchange Place, Journal Square, and Pavonia-Newport
64X - Lakewood to Lincoln Harbor via Grove St, Exchange Place, Pavonia-Newport, and Hoboken; PM trips operate express to Union Hill Rd P&R, then all local stops to Lakewood
I have route descriptions of this route and ALL NJT routes available
Steve
I noticed yesterday (1/8 Monday) around 5:30 pm, a new Suffolk Transit Orion V #9917 was on the side of the road on Vets Highway receiving operating assistance by a tow truck parked in front. By coincidence it was parked one block before Atlantic Diesel.
You'd never see a brand new RTS break down. I just wish these agencies would face it, Orions aren't good buses.
I remember when YUK got their new 6000 Orions, and seeing at least 3 broke down w/maint truck, and that was just in one day.
RTS never lets me down. But I don't even have enough fingers and toes to count how many times I've seen Orion buses crap out.
Interesting, I rode Suff Tran #9919 for 3 months and it was never out due to disability...
I have no idea how the maint. is out there so the breakdown could've just been one of a few with the new Orions.
Do you think Suffolk Transit does a better job maintaining the buses than Nassau (LI Bus)?
Well, I usually see the same buses running around. 9917 was the first I've seen receiving assistance though I have seen a few sitting at Atlantic Diesel. Their new Orions are fast. I once saw one of Suffolk's 9600's get on the LIE doing close to 75 mph. BTW, the 9600's are Gilligs. Another note, ST #9102 is at Atlantic Diesel with the new paint job.
John, that is not a fair question and is hard to answer. Suffolk Transit is a county agency that buys the buses and then gives them to private operators to operate.
I understand that the private companies (mostly school bus operators) receive a certain amount of money for each mile driven to cover salaries, supplies, parts and profit. Each company is responsible for the maintenance on the buses given them. The mechanics that service the buses work for the private companies and not the county.
Although the buses all have the same livery, if you look closely you'll see the name of the operator of the particular bus. I assume that the shops are unionized but may have several different unions in them.
Also, I don't know if certain buses are bought for certain lines and whether the companies can shift buses between routes. I don't think that the buses are shifted between companies like in NYC.
From some of your posts you believe that the engines on some LI Bus equipment isn't strong enough to climb some of the hills on the North Shore Routes. I don't think that Suffolk's hills are that steep, most of the routes are fairly flat. That may have something to do with the high MDBF numbers on our buses.
Where can I find out MDBF numbers for LI Bus?
Dunno----maybe contacting LI Bus directly or perhaps fellow poster Thurston can help out.
Saw 9917 back in service this morning.
I saw #3018 on 34th Street today-it had a big hole near the passenger side in the back top. It looks like where the vent is supposed to be. Guess Triboro maintence is lacking. If i Was DOT operator, id have sent ALL the Triboro buses to Queens Surface or Green and sent the old Queens Surface TMC RTS to Triboro.
If I was NYC DOT, I'd take all the buses in the Command Storage Yard rehab them and make a new private. But all fantasy aside, I'd do that as well, for obvious reasons.
Triboro has THE worst maintence of the privates, by a wide margin. In fact, I'm not sure if they even do maintance! It also seems to me that their bus repainting program has ceased.
LIB doesn't even clean their buses anymore. They are now all gray.
I saw the worst-looking LI Bus on the N4 today: 239. She had a gray replacement part on her left side-she looked very dirty and she had a huge hole in the right rear side of the bus and on top of that-sounded like crap. Also as far as Triboro is concerned, their buses are getting worse and worse for a reason: because they park the majority of their fleet out in the street heck they park blocks away form the depot. Why do you think 659, 695, 701, 717 and 2144 are at Jamaica Bus Lines Depot for? They simply have no room for any buses there. Triboro has to find another facility somewhere-otherwise their buses will keep getting this abuse.
Q53#3004Gary
I don't know, I just have a fetish for crappy looking and sounding buses. This is all right up my alley.
As bad as Triboro is, I betcha LI Bus has more breakdowns!!
I really think of all the transit buses in the MTA and DOT, LI Bus is the worst.
Today I was delayed by yet another breakdown (read the post Another Day, another breakdown)
There have been a tremendous amount of LI Bus breakdowns within the past two weeks. It seems almost everyday, I see or am affected by a breakdown.
John maybe a black cloud follows you around or something, as I can't say the last time I've seen a LI Bus sitting dead on the side of the road. You could be correct, it's just I have seen a dead or damaged on my way to/from work, e.g. went down Hempstead Tkp this AM saw several LI Orions, all were operating & none seemed to be needing repairs to the outside. Have seen bus stops with a lot of folks waiting, but don't know if it was because the bus was late.
Mr t__:^)
I think it's worse on the north shore, you gotta remember those Cummins engines just can't take the strain of the hills and terrible traffic we have here.
The two major factors, the Orions w/Cummins L10G engines and the bare bones bugdet are the cause for the irregular, unreliable bus service we have, especially on the north shore.
I remember a year ago i was communicating with someone who lived around Hempstead Tpke, and I always saw more breakdowns than he did.
I guess that's yet another reason to get the hell off the north shore!
[LIB doesn't even clean their buses anymore. They are now all gray.]
Washing buses when it's below freezing creates all kinds of problems, as that water gets all kinds of places, then freezes, e.g. sometimes the guy/gail who drove it thru the bus wash can't get the door open to get out :-) Here's another problem ... at night you get black ice all over the place .... ever see a bus go sideways ?
At this depot we've been doing it mid-day vs. at night ... this means less buses are getting washed, but reduces the problems.
Disclaimer: I'm NOT a official spokesperson of my employeer.
Mr t
Yeah, but LIB buses seem to be way dirtier than any of the NYCT or DOT buses, even Green and Triboro!
And then the private lines wonder why their contracts were only extended for a year? Lets hope that the TA takes the privates over via the Regional Bus Company provision.
Queens Surface is very good though. I rode on two of their Orion V CNG's tonight and they looked and ran pretty good.
QS is the exception to the rule along with NYBS and LL.It is the companies operated by the Cooper family who's buses make LIBus look like a class operation.Plus the fact that the Coopers donated alot to Guliani's campaign's in order to keep the extension of franchising going
I have to disagree ... would expect a different opinion from me :-)
The MTA/TA has grown into a huge, remote monster ... I'm not talking about the low level staff, I'm talking about the suits at the top.
Who are they accountable to ? The Governer, the Board, certainly not the public. The "privates" are much more accountable to their customers, and that's the way it should be. Now the MTA does some nice things & has a lot of economy of scale, but you get my point.
nycDOT does some things to motivate the companies to provide good service, in clean buses & on time. Some of this goes on outside my door every day. Could they do more, yes ... could more of the public show up a open meeting and yell & screem, yes.
Mr t__:^)
Alot of LIB Orions have the same problem, even saw it on one of Stengal's Orions. Orions aren't built very well are they?
Today, while sitting in traffic on Merrick Blvd while operating the Q3, upon pull in, GBL Orion 5504 was sitting next to me. I noticed under the operator's window a large compartment door with handles.
Is that some kind of escape hatch for the operator so the passengers won't notice in case the school kids start acting up? But seriously, anybody know what that's for? Thanks in advance.
BIG AL
All of GBL's (except the suburbans from NYBS)Orions have this door under the drivers window.Being that these buses were originally ordered by WMATA in DC this is probably on the rest of their Orion V's and probably VI's
I think there are wires under there because I was driving next to a WMATA Orion V recently and the door had come loose and was flapping around and I could see what looked like wires plugged into something. I couldn't see too much because I was trying not to have my car hit by that thing.
I have seen photographs of some Corgi bus models painted into the NYCTA colors of the 1960's, complete with the roofline lettering that said "New York City Transit Authority" (in white on newlooks and green on oldlooks).
WHERE can I find such lettering to do some models?????
Someone steered me to the Red Caboose model railroad shop at 23 West 45th Street. I sent them a letter, with a stamped, self-addressed envelope, MONTHS ago, and they didn't even have the courtesy to send the envelope back with a reply. (I've heard they're a bunch of a-holes to deal with anyway, from MANY people.....)
So, can anyone point me to the source for this decal lettering? I'm mainly interested in the stuff for the oldlooks, as Corgi IS definitely coming out with e TDH5301 newlook in NYCTA colors (have seen Corgi advertising with a rough looking pre-production model).
Thanks for your help everyone!!!!
I don't know where to get the lettering, but I'd check other hobby shops. I used to go to Collectors Station in White Plains, but when I drove by there in November they had either closed shop or moved. The Red Caboose are less than friendly these days. I started going there during my high schools days early-mid 1980's and they were better - I could be wrong but to me it always seemed like the person, whom I beleive is the owner was growing impatient with customer questions. I stopped there very briefly the day after X-mas and I was quickly reminded of how he doesn't even acknowledge your presence unless you stand directly in front of him.
Wayne
6500 was pulled into the shop today and will begin the restoration. The bus will be rebuilt to Pacific Electric specs including original # 2700. This bus is no beauty and this will definately take awhile.
6599 (TDH 5103 #577) was dragged into the shop last week. This bus will be repainted as original 2 tone green for Los Angeles. This bus is in much better shape and should be reapinted on the exterior by next month.
I have pics of both buses but dont know how to include on this posting.If anyone is interested, just email me.
http://www.geocities.com/regtransit/
Is this the same old faithful that SCRTD owned two times while her 500 sisters went to New York???
Wayne
Yes, same bus. It'll be looking good in no time if Scott's working on it!! I remember riding in it when it was "Casper" -- on a line in the San Fernardo Valley. I had forgotten what a spring-ride GM old look was like.....after many years of riding them in New York City.
For any of you who would like to know, express coaches #
121, 122, 123, 124 are at Mother Hale for limited service on the M1's
A couple of these buses are labeled Casey Stengal depot.
Heard there staying only for a little while.
We still have 4500 and 4494 in everyday use as well/
Hello.
I Think 121,122,123,124 Also Runs The M7 On The Weekends.
Dominick.
I saw #123 on the M1 in midtown this afternoon. Didn't catch whether it was in limited or regular service, but it was during the rush hour.
On Sat. a SubTalker & colleague I've met on a couple of "Field Trips" was looking at the NY Times on-line. The article he was reading told of NY Waterways intention to stop providing ferry service across the East River at Mid-town. In Manhattan they also intend to stop the their bus service. In Queens, Q69 is a free shuttle provided by QSC.
I read this post & ask our Transportation department if they knew about it ... they didn't. Tues. I provided our VP a copy of the post by ChuchuBob & the Times article.
Many thanks to Dave & Bob for this customer service !
Mr t__:^)
Any additional information about this? At one time in 1991 the MTA was suppose to make the following changes.
1-Reroute M-34 and Javits Center M-42 buses through the West 38th Street Pier on a loop.
2-Extend Route M-50 from West 41st Street to West 38th St Pier.
Other possibilities
1-Extend M-30 to W. 38th St Pier
2-New Rush Hour Branch of M-23 to W. 38th St Pier.
3-New Route along 12th Ave and West Street to South Ferry
4-Extend Route M-34 to E. 34th St Pier
5-Extend Route M-27 to E. 34th St Pier rush hours only
6-Selected M-104 extended to E. 34th St Pier rush hours
Any comments
Thank You
Recently ,,the B16 B43 and B48 were rerouted or extended to the Brighton Line Station at Lincoln road,Brooklyn
Can someone assist me in obtaining the NEW readings for the 3 Routes to the BMT Station
I need the Sign readings Verbatim
B41-___
_______
_______
Thank yuo
Steve
The TWU & ATU have put out "A Message to Our Passengers" about the current state of negotiations with the City & "private" bus operators.
As I'm not in either of these two unions, I better not say too much.
In short the tone seems to blame the City, "Recent actions by the City ...".
The Teachers contract ran out, now the TWU/ATU, plus some more are comming up soon, including the police who have already been running adv.
What do you think, is Rudy going to be tough his last year in office, or maybe hold them off & dump it into the lap of the next mayor ?
Mr t__:^)
>>>What do you think, is Rudy going to be tough his last year in office, or maybe hold them off & dump it into the lap of the next mayor ? <<<
Dump it in the lap of the nexr Mayor, it's Rudy's style.
PEace,
ANDEE
Service ended last Friday; ridership was 220 (110 each way) passengers per day. Broadway Bus is one block away. Story in Wednesday's Jersey Journal.
surprised not to find this mentioned at all but tuesday am rush a serious accident occurred in the bklyn battery tunnel involving yukon mci 1915 and a passenger car. from what i heard car struck bus going in the opposite direction in the couterflow tube. driver of car wound up critical with two broken legs. massive delays occurred. bus has only minor damage. of course at yukon that means it will be out of service 6 months.
LOL! You got that right! Yukon seems to be a little slow on the draw when it comes down to accident repairs. But my question is, MCI is still the contractor on these buses for 7 years for maintenance issues and such, shouldn't MCI be responsible for the repairs on the MCIs and if so, they would be a hell of a lot quicker the the TA's CMFs.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
accident repairs are done by the bma at yukon. extensive repairs go to eny. transit waits months for parts from mci. 2013 in accident in july still sits idle at eny. 1896 in minor rear end accident in sept sits idle at yukon. meanwhile the boys have stripped it of several parts.
OH DAMN!!!!! Not Good!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
DOES NOT REGARD EAST COAST TRANSIT PROPERTIES
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BACKGROUND INFORMATION
Approximately 20,000 people each day travel on buses operated by the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. Of those, I would estimate that about 5 percent of them either enjoy riding the buses or do so on their own will. U of M's passengers are by and large captive riders, students who live in dorms in the remote North Campus area, or Central Campus folk who travel to North Campus for certain classes.
As far as university-operated transit systems go, U of M is pretty good. Buses operates 363 days a year, from 6.30a to 2.00a (3.30a on Fridays and Saturdays.) and buses are scheduled to operate as frequently as every 3 minutes. Service is free of charge for all who wish to ride. There are full-time drivers and part-time positions for students.
The fleet is 37 active Flxible Metros and six Gillig Advantage low floors. In addition to these, the University owns about a dozen other buses for use on Medical Center routes.
The University definately has the potential to run a first-class transit operation, but several chronic issues plague the system:
-Route performance is very inconsistent, especially at peak times. Some days, buses will run on time within 30 seconds. More commonly, however, riders will wait for 30 minute plus for a bus, and then a single bus shows up. The other buses are at places on the route where the demand is not as high. And you thought bunching was bad...
-Buses are constantly overcrowded. It is a fairly common occurrance to be left behind by several buses because they are all too full. Loads often spill over the 'white line' and onto the stepwells, front and back.
-Many of the bus drivers have horrible attitudes, especially the full-time drivers. Since there is no fare to transact, it is understandable that drivers not greet every passenger, but even when riders go out of their way to give a driver a friendly hello, they just look the other way. I often thank drivers when I leave, and most of them don't so much as nod. Their attitude suggests "Get the f&*% off my bus."
Despite these many flaws, most people tolerate the bus system. They realize it's not going to be perfect, but the system does its job.
ENTER THE GILLIGS
In mid December, six Gillig Advantage low floor buses hit the streets. The new paint scheme turned a few heads, a few jokes were cracked about 'that new bus smell,' but passenger reaction to the new buses was overwhelmingly negative.
I have posted lengthy messages to this board in the recent past describing the many shortcomings of Gillig Advantages; I can do it again if need be.
Adding lower capacity to an overcrowded transit system is a step in the wrong direction. After learning that the University ordered TWELVE more Gilligs today, I was on the horn as soon as possible with the complaint line.
The person on the other end gave me BS arguments up the wazoo:
Me
transit supervison
Hello, I have a complaint which might turn into a question.
About what?
The new buses. People are very unhappy with them. Today on North Campus, I and about 100 other people had to wait for the fifth bus because all the new ones were to full. Also, rumor has it that you ordered even more of them today.
I don't know anything about that, but there will be more of the new ones.
They are not suited to the University's needs. (I named numerous design flaws)
Listen, the Gilligs are the only buses available in this part of the country.
Have you considered buying standard floor buses?
No one makes them anymore. Only low floors are available.
First, that's not true. Second, no transit systems which carry heavy loads like you do order Gillig buses.
Chicago just ordered 1,000 Gilligs.
No they didn't. Those are LFS's.
What's that?
It's made by NovaBUS. CTA just got 150 of them and they have options for 300 more.
We don't like NovaBUSes. They catch on fire.
--- more banter for about ten minutes ---
Our number one concern is the drivers. As far as passengers go, we just move the cattle.
.
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This continued. I was maddened at the condescending yet uninfomed tone I received, and I continue to be disheartened by the University's failure to do its research properly. Like I said and like we all know, no big city or high-intensity transit system will EVER go for Gillig buses, let alone will they replace a fleet of standard floor buses with the same number of lower-capacity low floors.
I also learned that the University's theory in transit operation is "They can wait 15 or 20 minutes." This means that it is considered satisfactory performance if someone has to wait for the sixth bus before he can leave the stop. That's also a lot of time considering most passenger's rides don't last more than 15 minutes. It also shows what low esteems in which the University holds North Campus persons.
I fear that U of M's negligent, short-sighted, anti-customer transit operation will turn people off to transit for life. Most people who ride the buses between class and the dorm say they hate buses, and they vow never to set foot on another one again after their time on North Campus.
If the University took pride in its transit operation, riding the bus just might be a pleasure. It would also alleviate the need to build hundreds of new parking spaces every year. Enjoying your trip on transit; imagine that.
Neil
We don't like NovaBUSes. They catch on fire.
Why does this sound like some imaginary "fact" this person pulled out of thin air to get you off the phone? New York's Nova RTSs aren't spontaneously combusting, nor have I heard anything about epidemic conflagrations among other transit companies' Nova buses. Maybe this person just inferred that because Nova now makes the RTS, and GM designed it around the same time it was putting side-saddle gas tanks in pickup trucks ;).
Maybe this person just inferred that because Nova now makes the RTS, and GM designed it around the same time it was putting side-saddle gas tanks in pickup trucks ;).
That is funny, but this person was so full of it that I don't think she had any idea about the history and evolution of the RTS design.
I am still extrodinarily frustrated with U of M on their misguided decision to buy Gillig buses. Any feelings on that, anyone?
The reasoning is pretty obvious:
1) They're buses
2) They're cheap
3) Whoever is making the decision has no clue, and isn't willing to listen to someone who does.
and....
4)They're stupid!!!
Reason #2 is the one.....low bidder.
This is true; Gillig does tend to have the low bid. In fact, our town ran Flxibles for many years, and when it came time to buy new buses in 1988, they were all set to purchase some Flx Metros but the bid came up high...so guess who came in with the lower bid...Gillig.
And that's how Roanoke, VA was introduced to the Gillig Phantom.
Personally, I think the Flxible Metro looked a lot better, but the Gilligs are probably the best-looking buses of today's offerings since the Metro is dearly departed. The RTS still looks nice and sleek, but some of them have that ugly new blocky front end that makes the whole bus look like something I ate and dropped. I prefer the original front end design of the RTS a lot better.
I'd love to see RTS buses run through the streets of Roanoke, but the bids may run too high, and the mechanics prefer T-drive after being spoiled by the Gilligs, so we may never see them. If only Flxible had the lower bids in '88....oh well. Just another reason to appreciate the looks of their former Grumman 870 that sits in our transit museum and still runs like a charm. 22 years later, it looks even newer than their latest Gilligs.
Gilligs may be great in smaller cities such as Roanoke....but there are only two large transit systems in the country that have bought fleets of them -- Minneapolis, and Seattle. And Seattle was a newcomer to Gillig, so time will tell how they hold up.
Having driven Gillig Phantoms, I can say they are NO pleasure for a driver. The dashboards are all made of the cheapest plastic crap known to man (or the bus industry) and the first time anything under the dash gets maintenance, that's the end of the things staying together. The whole front end leaks, around the windshield and destination sign. At the top of the windshield, bumpy roads tend to cause that panel to separate from the rest of the bus. The roofs leak down into the passenger compartments. Heat? What heat? Power steering? Yeah, if the driver has strong arms. (And after being off work on disability and having a shoulder surgery due to the sterring in a Gillig Phantom......that was the LAST Gillig I drove in my lifetime. It was NO fun.) Smooth ride? Only if you just got off a tugboat in a typhoon.
My employer got rid of their original (1983) Gilligs the day they were 12 years old. We also got rid of the 1988 Gilligs late last year, yet we keep running our 1980 RTS's -- and they are going stronger than ever.
Funny!
I've seen more Gillig buses catch fire than any other brand. I even had one burn to the ground on me while at a layover!!!!! And a second one caught fire at the very same layover, but the fire department just happened to be in the shopping center parking lot that time, so I just ran over to them and said "Uh, my bus is on fire". They politely drove their truck over and doused the flames.
And what's even funnier about THAT one....my employer sold off the buses shortly thereafter, and an agency inthe Pacific Northwest suckered into buying 31 of them. When I visited that property, their maintenance foreman said "We have one that keeps catching fire" and I asked which one....guess what!!!! Good ol' 4053!!!!!
The Lowell Regional Transit Authority had 3 TMC Citycruisers catch fire all within a years time in 1991. One of the buses in fact was a rehabbed Citycruiser purchased from the Merrimack Valley Regional Transit Authority (#276) just a few months prior.This bus caught fire in the middle of the night inside the storage garage in July 1991.The fire was discovered by the AM dispatcher and a driver reporting for work about 4:30AM. The bus was obliterated and all the other buses in the garage were covered in soot, forcing the LRTA to cancel service for the day while all the buses were steamcleaned and checked for damage.The other 2 fires occured while the buses were in service. The Citycruisers were replaced in the Spring of 1992 by Flxible Metros.
Mark Watson
Once again, Neil, I'm with you here. Universtiy transit systems should be more customer-friendly. After all, they are carting our young people between classes at a time when they are most likely to be influenced by the virtues of transit; just walk outside of your dorm, hop on, and don't worry about finding a parking spot. And you can study during the ride each way.
One of the best transit systems I have encountered so far is in nearby Blacksburg at Virginia Tech; during semesters, buses run every 15 min. some runs every 7, and you can ride all over town for just 50 cents. The agency is mostly run by students, as ar the buses themselves, and everyone there is easy-going and friendly, just as they should be. Also, they have a nice heterogeneous mix of the following 35 and 40-footers, and my favorites are listed by rank; Flxible Metro Bs, TMC RTSs, and New Flyer D40LFs.
I disagree about the RTS fire malarky; that sounds more like a general turbo problem. I heard of a New Flyer low floor catching fire, and that was due to a faulty turbine. Also, I agree about lack of room; the New Flyer is living proof of this. It looks like
Once again, Neil, I'm with you here. Universtiy transit systems should be more customer-friendly. After all, they are carting our young people between classes at a time when they are most likely to be influenced by the virtues of transit; just walk outside of your dorm, hop on, and don't worry about finding a parking spot. And you can study during the ride each way.
One of the best transit systems I have encountered so far is in nearby Blacksburg at Virginia Tech; during semesters, buses run every 15 min. some runs every 7, and you can ride all over town for just 50 cents. The agency is mostly run by students, as ar the buses themselves, and everyone there is easy-going and friendly, just as they should be. Also, they have a nice heterogeneous mix of the following 35 and 40-footers, and my favorites are listed by rank; Flxible Metro Bs, TMC RTSs, and New Flyer D40LFs.
I disagree about the RTS fire malarky; that sounds more like a general turbo problem. I heard of a New Flyer low floor catching fire, and that was due to a faulty turbine. Also, I agree about lack of room; the New Flyer is living proof of this. It looks like it has a lot less room inside than its older RTS and Flxible colleagues.
As far as the Gillig Advantages go, I can see where it would have quirks being a low floor, but that doesn't make all Gilligs shoddy. Here in Roanoke, I hated to see the Grummans and Flx New Looks go, but the Gillig Phantom has proven to be a good, solid bus, especially the older 1988 and 1991 models still trucking along here. More than likely, Roanoke will get more of these when they retire the 88s.
Say, any word on what will be happening with the U of M Flx Metro 30 footers when the Gilligs arrive....just curious.
Say, any word on what will be happening with the U of M Flx Metro 30 footers when the Gilligs arrive....just curious.
U of M does not have any 30-foot Flxibles.
Even with the new Gilligs having been in service for a few months now, not a single Flxible has been pulled.
Yesterday, as soon as I learned that the University ordered twelve more Gilligs (disheartened sigh), I consulted several resources for the inside info.
First, I caught the bus of a full-time driver who is also a transit enthusiast. He informed me that to the best of his knowledge, none of the Flxibles will be retired any time within the next few years.
Then, I called Transportation Services directly and inquired. They told me the same thing. I inquired "So at the end of next year, you will be operating 54 buses vs. the current 42?" They claimed that this will be the case. In New York or Philadelphia, adding 12 buses to the fleet is not a huge deal. If they are actually planning on doing that, though, that means the size of their fleet will increase 28 percent. Strangely, they have no sincere plans to improve the service.
While a lot of the Flxibles are dirty and have parts and panels missing due to deferred maintenance, they are in pretty good condition overall. A few replacement parts and regular washes would kick the Flxibles back into top-notch condition.
Yesterday, I forgot to include in my post that U of M Transportation Services claims that parts are no longer available for Flxible buses. OK. We all know that Flxible is out of business, but there are still more than 10,000 of their buses rolling as we speak. Do they really expect me to believe that basic parts are not available? Gimme a break!
Here's the University of Michigan transit roster:
710-711
1993 Flxible Metro D 40102-6C-0
-Accessible
-710 is ubiquitous, 711 is rarely seen in service
-My personal favorite buses in the fleet
722-727
1988 Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-0
-727 damaged by fire and is out of service
730-735
1989 Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-0
740-745
1990 Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-0
750-759, 780-781
1991 Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-0
790-795
1992 Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-0
-Accessible
-793 is dead
3000-3001
1997 Champion SoLo
-3001 caught fire and was burnt to a crisp. 3000 is inactive for fear that it will meet the same fate.
3002-3007
2000 Gillig Advantage T-40
-Cummins engines
-Air Conditioned
-Wheelchair Accessible
-Hated by all passengers
3008-3019 (on order)
2001 Gillig Advantage T-40
-Order placed on 10.January.00, to be delivered in September
-Will be just as notorious as the current Gilligs
3100-3107
1997 ElDorado Escort FE
-Small buses used on Medical Center Shuttle routes
-Occasionally spotted on "Nite Owl" routes
3108
2000 Goshen
-Used for Medical Center Shuttle routes
.
.
.
I'd be happy to answer any questions.
Neil
¡Qué viva el subjuntivo!
UofM most certainly DOES have 30-foot Flxibles. University of Maryland, that is......College Park, MD.
Yeah, I drove a bunch of those when I went to University of Maryland. They had two 40 footers as well. They got rid of their early 2980's Thomas Saf T Liners and replaced them with 1998 Thomas'. Good thing I graduated in 1994 so I didn't have to drive more than I had to with those. Between the Thomas and the Blue Bird, they both are tops for bad buses. I used to get to the garage really early on the days that I needed a forty footer so I could get a Flx.
>>711 is rarely seen in service-My personal favorite buses in the fleet<<
It seems to me that 711 is everybody's favorite in any fleet. 711 was my favorite subway car out of The Almond Joy fleet (more on this in Sub talk).
Y'know, those New Flyer artics are really super. The newer ones I like the most. Smooth ride. Fun midsection-fun to ride in. When I get on one and there is no seat in the front or back, I just stick to the middle! Anyway, what's the story on the artics for 126th and Quill? Rumor has it that #5510-5570 will be on the m15 only. Maybe on the m57 or m31. NO word on #5571-5649 yet. Maybe Quill will take #5571-5649 and move #1000-1069 to Flatbush, which will have artics by 2002, or so I hear. I also hear that NJ Transit will have NABI articulateds by 2003, to get rid of those awful foreign Volvos! (They look like they were made in Europe.) Well, that's the end of that.
**Feel free to e-mail me on this issue if you like**
--CWalNYC )8^)
Yes, the new Articulateds slated for 2001 (5510-5649) are slated for Quill and 126th Street (126th being 5510-5570 and Quill being 5571-5649). It is a good chance that 1000-1072 will be sent from Quill to Flatbush, but with the TA everything is subject to change.
As for NJ Transit, New Flyer & NABI are the two perspective contractors for the articulated replacements in 2003, but from what I understand, NABI is more than like going to be the winning bidder!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Is 126 still going to receive those 1998 D60's from Kingsbridge? I believe the numbers were 1095-1109.
Maybe, it's a chance they may stay at KB with the expansion of Articulated routes in the depot.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Can ANYONE tell me exactly WHY the KB artics were taken off the BX36? That line is a crowded route. WHY? Why not also put some from GH on the BX27? You should see that bus during rush hours.
--Carl )8^)
Well, the Bx36 articulated were a experiment it wasn't permenant, the operators on that line complained because the line has too many turns for the articulateds. I agree the Bx36 does require articulated buses!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
On Monday, the Chicago Transit Authority announced the purchase of 200 NABI artics, which will (thankfully) replace the current CTA and ex-Seattle Metro MAN artics (personal aside: if anyone thought the Volvo artics at SEPTA and NJT were bad, the MAN coaches make the Volvo artics look like an RTS). The first batch of 80 artics are due to arrive in Chicago in 2003, with the options for up to 200 to be exercised as funding becomes available.
http://www.yourcta.com/news/ctaandpress.wu?action=displayarticledetail&articleid=121506
In addition, CTA is starting to recieve the first of it's 469 Nova LFS buses into active service.
http://www.yourcta.com/news/ctaandpress.wu?action=displayarticledetail&articleid=113250
By reading this article I realized that CTA order 80 of the NABI Model 60LFW Articulated Low Floor buses.
It looks like this is NABIs first Low Floor Articulated order since the buses premier last year. Below I placed a schematic drawing of the bus.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Nice looking bus,has the NYCTA ever cosidered NABI's at all ,I know for a fact that they tested Neoplans here (caught the test bus A AN440 2x in like 1984 on the Q88 out of QV.)
Yes, NABI was given a bid when the same time the bid was given to New Flyer. But at the time NABI declined because they were going through some changed of ownership, at that time, NABI was called American Ikarus. So with all the ownership changes going on NABI didn't wanna get caught with huge orders and couldn't supply, smart move i'd say on a manufacturers part.
Though, I would love to have seen NABIs instead of New Flyers, don't get me wrong, I like the New Flyers too! But I'm more partial to the NABIs just like I am with the Flxible.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Although I know you are talking about Chicago, MAN coaches in Maryland (WMATA) never really seemed that bad.
Maybe at WMATA the MANs aren't that bad, but my experiences with MANs happened in Westchester County. The few times I have ever riden those artics in Westchester, I thought less of these buses. There was one time I was on the #40 line, and the exhaust seemed to sneak in through the middle of the bus - there was a similar problem with the Volvo artics at SEPTA a couple of years ago.
Where is triboro coach corp. depot located?
Jackson Heights
on 23 av at approx 88 to 90 st,,opposite
Laguardia Airport--College of Aeronautics--I went there
Steve
I've been inside there a couple of times ... on business. Seem to be a nice group of people.
Mr t__:^)
I agree,,they helped me with my routing materials
Just to add to FDNY and Thrustons' info. If you're on the Q-33 or M-60 they pass by the depot. From the Q-33 you can see 2 sides of the depot - many of their buses are stored outside.
Wayne
The 3:30pm N27 to Glen Cove out of Roosevelt Field never showed. Supervisor in jeep told me it broke down. I walked on over and asked, he couldn't let all of us at the bus stop know.
I was talking to riders waiting, trying to convince them to do something about this lousy service. It was wasted breath though, it seems they don't care much at all about improving bus service. One woman with her mother says "buy a car". Yeah, I have to get a job first and how am I going to do that when I can't even get around! Money doesn't grow on trees, and SSI don't pay for car insurance. Besides, I don't even want to drive. The buses should be reliable.
Another guy says "lets beat up the driver when he gets here!". I respond, the drivers have it just as bad as us, they miss breaks and gotta put up with the lousy equipment too. It's Gulotta's fault, and the fault of all the rich people in this county for not helping us out I said. Needless to say as usual, I was the lone Socialist. Everybody else can just put us with this crappy service I'm not!
I'm writing a letter to LI Bus, and telling them about all these ridiculous service problems. I'm also writing the county government, as well as news agencies. Last time no media outlet did any reporting. Freedom of press? Hah!
It's no more Mr.Nice Guy this time, I'm gonna really rip into this horrible LI Bus service.
And if Cummins were that terrible, they wouldn't be in business. One word. Maintainance. I doubt LI Bus even knows what that means.
Zerega Avenue Bronx =Opening Early 2001
Maspeth CMF==to include indoor parking for 210 Buses
Coliseum Replacement=early 2002
100 st --early 2002
Jamaica and Mother Hale and Staten Island Annex in 2007
Now its 2002 for 100 and COL to reopen -thought it suppose to be this yr-oh well HP gets a repreive for a yr
Well, I've said plenty of "controversial" things on this board and here's another one; I think WMATA has one of the most hideous paint schemes in the country. The only bus I ever liked in either Metrobus scheme was bus 6607, and we all know where she went.
You all may not like all the white and lack of color on most buses, but I think it's fine. I like simple schemes like Metr0-Houston's, NJ Transit's, and NYC's. I did like the tow tone blue and even the green scheme of the old New Looks of NYC, but that's a by-gone era.
Anyway, with all those buses, it'd be nice to have a decent looking scheme, IMO anyway.
BTW, I don't feel there's an unattractive RTS bus in the world except the hideous WFD, but WMATA sure came close by putting them in that scheme of theirs. RTS's CANNOT have a bumper a different color than the the lower half of the bus, especially if the lower half isn't white.
What's wrong with the bumpers being a different color than the rest of the bus???
WMATA had black bumpers on their RTS's years ago and the bottom was white. I actually thought it looked rather good when I lived in WOrange County (CA) had black bumpers on their RTS's until the mid-1980's, and the rest of the bus was white. (Now that they're grey, they are 14,000 shades of grey. No two buses match -- actually, no two lower panels on our RTS's seem to match any more.)
I applaud WMATA for changing their look, and although i don't think it goes as far as hideous, i do think there are soem faults with it.
For one thing, I love the blue where the black used to be. However, I loved that big flag on the side of the bus, and now it has been replaced by these two tiny flags that you can barely see, and I'm not even sure if they eve bother with them anymore.
Personally, I think Flxibles need the black stripe across the windows, and if they were going to change that, they should have left the stripe alone, letting it go as far back as it really should. In addition to that about the RTS comment, many companies have the front bumper a color other than white. Maybe it it had been blue in the scheme it would be much better, although I personally think that white is the best color for the front bumper.
Also, the metro logo on the sides of the buses near the back are way too small, and it seems like metro isn't proud of it anymore. Plus, the metrobus logo on the front only works well with the Orion Vs. With everything else, it's basically too small, especially on the Orion VIs, where there isn't even enough room to have it with the blue stripe.
What I like about the sheme over the old one that it sorta represents the flag more, making it a pretty good scheme for the the TA of the Nation's Capital, and there certainly is a lot of blue.
About mostly white buses, although I don't think they are creative, i have heard so many people complain about SEPTA's new scheme, how it was in the wrong place above the standee windows and should be below it, and I agree with them to a point. Only on the Ikarus Americans the scheme really works, and maybe on the Neo AN440. On everything else, especially the LRVs, it really is bad, since the strip is way to thin. Also, I liked the old scheme of SEPTA, but it's nice to have change every once in a while.
Anyway, about the sheme of the WMATA, personally I think the New Flyers that they are getting will not look good (at least the front) with the new scheme, since the indicators are going to be in the way.
[About mostly white buses, although I don't think they are creative, i have heard so many people complain about SEPTA's new scheme, how it was in the wrong place above the standee windows and should be below it, and I agree with them to a point. Only on the Ikarus Americans the scheme really works, and maybe on the Neo AN440. On everything else, especially the LRVs, it really is bad, since the strip is way to thin. Also, I liked the old scheme of SEPTA, but it's nice to have change every once in a while.]
SEPTA's rationale for the new livery when the NABIs arrived was for their buses to stand out better while along Center City Philadelphia streets (I read this in a newspaper article about 4 years ago). There are still a few buses that still have the old stripe below the windows (not just some of the junkers about to be retired, but some of the 3300- and 3400-series buses have the old livery).
RE:WMATA paint scheme: I prefer the old one, but I'm OK with the new one. I really don't care for the blue in the new scheme.
On RTS I did like the black bumpers. In the mid 1980's many of QSC (Then Queens/Steinway Transit) RTS 04 & 06 series buses had black bumpers. I remember at least a couple of 1984 RTS at MABSTOA's Walnut depot also sported black bumpers. I though it looked cool.
I not big on nearly all white paint schemes, but I'd rather see that than a tacky paint scheme. I think NYCTA scheme is OK, but I HATE what they do to the RTS when they're repainted.
Have you seen Montgomery County's Ride-On paint scheme. I think it's really cool. There not much white - and it's very tastefully done. Even the CNG buses with the Green/Yellow look good.
Wayne
Yeah, Ride'On's paint scheme was always pretty interesting and looked good on all of the buses they ever had. Even though there may be white at the end of the blue part, it fits into the design very well.
Then you wouldn't like the LYNX fleet in Orlando, where they pride themselves on having a different paint scheme for every single bus in the fleet.
WMATA's scheme is very soothing and peaceful. WMATA is also unique, let them be that way.
WMATA's scheme is very soothing and peaceful. WMATA is also unique, let them be that way.
Amen.
>Well, I've said plenty of "controversial" things on this board and >here's another one; I think WMATA has one of the most hideous paint >schemes in the country.
When I went down to DC, the Amtrak train pulled into New Carrollton station, and I saw an Orion V in its all-white with some color paint scheme. Not very pretty. Their red white and blue stripe was much better, and this new scheme is...ah...too spartan.
>You all may not like all the white and lack of color on most buses, >but I think it's fine. I like simple schemes like Metr0-Houston's, >NJ Transit's, and NYC's. I did like the tow tone blue and even the >green scheme of the old New Looks of NYC, but that's a by-gone era.
The MBTA had a purely hideous grey, white and yellow paint scheme in the 60s that yielded to full body, school bus yellow "Golden Sunshine" scheme from the early 70s to around the mid-80s, when they got their first order of RTSs. Now, it's just a yellow vinyl stripe around a white bus, but that's probably the reason many transit companies get wraparound bus advos.
>Anyway, with all those buses, it'd be nice to have a decent looking scheme, IMO anyway.
You never know. I think the blue is a wee bit boring for the NYCTA bus fleet, so why not tie dye? How about flourescent yellow and orange?
Seriously, if NYCTA added one more color to their buses (even a variant of blue) they'd be more interesting.
First off, I'm wondering what everyone's favorite and least favorite kind of bus windshield is, whether it be the old fishbowl, the new fishbowl, and the slanted windows. NABIs don't really have the fishbowl window, though, but Neos and New Flyers have the newer version. Slanted windows seem to be popular, but, are they really that great? I know that Gilligs windshields have no curve whatsoever, and how is that suppose to help with the reflections that much? Also, what about the passenger side glass panel? Wouldn't there be reflections of light on that side, and isn't that necessary?
I've heard good things about the slanted (inward) windshields. I've driven Grumman 870/Flxible Metro but it was either daytime or it was night but the interior lights were not on.
Wayne
Alas, I recall yet another problem with the Gillig Advantages. In designing this most inferior of buses, Gillig seems to have forgotten to consider glare during nighttime operation. The windshield has no sort of slant or other glare-reduction feature.
The answer?
Turn off most of the interior passenger lights at night, and tint them blue. Whereas most buses only have the first set of passenger interior lights off at night (except when the front door is open,) the Gillig Advantages only have three or four section of lighting ON, and the few that are illuminated are only on the left side of the bus.
Good going, Gillig.
At least I can rest assured that only second-rate transit systems would ever consider buying Gillig buses (Seattle and Minneapolis the notable exceptions.) If the day should ever come when I hear that NYC or Chicago or Philadelphia buys Gilligs, I'll throw my hands up in the air and stop caring about buses.
I knew the Gilligs were crap when I was riding on them in 1980 on Suffolk Transit. It baffles me as to why the MSBA bought those garbage cans on wheels. Look where they are now.
Last week while working the NYA RS-50, I made a stop at Gershow recycling in Medford to pick up loaded gons of scrap steel, I seen about 10 Suffolk Transit Gilligs awaiting their turn for the shredder. Who knows maybe they will end up as scrap steel on my train!
A group of us parked on Woodhaven & 67th (at cemetery) to have a stand up lunch (there's a couple of vendors who do it out of their trucks). While downing a saugage & peppers saw Command, Green, Triboro & TA coaches go by. You'll sometimes run into TA employees from the Jamaica subway yard.
Mr t__:^)
I know were you are talking ,rt across from the World Gym .If you have the time for a littel longer lunch try the East meets West Chinese Resturant next to the 7-11.Also during am rush you ususally have the QM12 & 24 's sitting over there waiting to get in service
Thanks for the tip, I'll keep it in mind.
Mr t__:^)
Just before 4PM this afternoon, a school bus rear ended an MBTA bus on the Mass Ave exit off I-93 Southbound in Boston. I saw a live news copter shot of the accident,couldn't tell the number of the T bus,but it was a wrap bus for the Boston Herald. The Blue Bird transit model school bus sustained extensive front end damage from what I saw on TV, no shot of the rear of the T bus so I can't comment on what damage it may have. The news report stated that the T bus was empty and the driver was not injured, while the school bus had several students aboard, at least 10 minor injuries from the school bus reported including the school bus driver.
Mark Watson
When did 8565 get transtered to Flatbush, I saw it today on the B41. Did 8566 also go over there.
Robert
about a month ago, JG was in a rush and got rid of many RTSs that went to other depots in Brooklyn, 8565-8566, along with their 8400 series bus, 8460, and some 4600s went there.
I was able (with David Pirman's help) set up one of Big Al's pictures of the RTS slope-back that Trevor Logan put up as Post 17600 last July.
I notice that there is a circle stamped into the black part of the slope back in the lower left hand corner. It appears to be about 18 inches in diameter. It even appears in a resin model I bought on E-bay. Anybody know what its purpose is ?
Grammatical correction. I set the picture up as the wallpaper on my desktop.
Is this circle part of an escape hatch ???
No, it's not an escape hatch. It's only 10" in diameter or so.
I'd guess it was something to do with access to component servicing. But it was on all the slant-backs I've ever seen!!!
According to the GM RTS parts book I have for the RTS 03 models, it's an A/C access panel. Something dealing with the A/C was behind that black panel on the slope backs but I can't figure out what from the manual. Whatever it was they provided access for it with that hole. What's odd though is it's labled as optional equipment and like you said Steve, I've seen it on every slope back.
That access hole was later used to allow easy access into the coach for the wiring and tubing from the back pack A/C units.
RDChilds
[... RTS 03 models, it's an A/C access panel.]
We, QSC, had some of those -03s on loan from Liberty while we were waiting for the Orions. True Slope Backs don't have A/C. It was a add on box put on top of the slope. The whole cover came off, so the 10" cover must be for something else.
BTW, Can anybody confirm that Liberty saved one of them ... if it's the one I think it is, it was here until 12/98 & left in pritty good shape.
Mr t__:^)
Thurston, IIRC all RTS slopebacks had A/C, it's just that it was really awful A/C hence the appearance of the add on units.
Peace,
ANDEE
Thurston wrote: True Slope Backs don't have A/C.
Slope backs did have A/C. The condenser coils normally located on the back end (as they are with the backpacks) were located in front of the radiator like it would be on a car. This lead to frequent engine overheating and very poor A/C performance which lead to the introduction of the backpacks for A/C. Most of the time it was rare to ride a slope back where the A/C worked although there were some that actually did work. AM Generals (B series) had a similar set up with the condensor coils located in front of the radiator.
From some more research, the black cover opened for access to the evaporator coils located at the back end of the coach (you could see the other side of this inside the coach with the grill above the rear seats). That hole seemed to allow access to a shut off valve or charging valve. The parts manual diagrams aren't that clear on this but it's definately classified as an A/C access cover.
RDChilds
[Thurston wrote: True Slope Backs don't have A/C.]
[RD Childs wote: Slope backs did have A/C.]
I'm more of a Subwaybuff then a Busbuff, so I may be totally wrong here, but I seem to remember photos that show some of the Slope Back RTS -03s w/out the A/C unit stuck on the back. All the phical units I've seen did have A/Cs.
Mr t__:^)
On the 01 and 03 model RTS's which were the slope backs, there were no backpack or rooftop units that came from GM as factory air that I am aware of. All of the backpack and roof-top A/C's on the 01 and 03 slope backs were after-market add ons from all the info I have on them.
There were some properties that did order the RTS without A/C, Erie Metropolitan Transit Authority is one operator that did order without, and from the outside you couldn't tell if the bus did or didn't have A/C as both non-A/C and A/C equipped coaches looked identical with the same sloped rear. The parts we associate with A/C (such as the condensor coils normally housed in the backpack) were hidden by mounting them on the left side of the bus directly in front of the radiator which is one reason why the backpacks came into being (because the bus usually overheated having the condensor coils located by the radiator and proved to be rather poor in cooling performance as well).
It wasn't until the the properties started adding rooftop and backpack units that it became easy to spot the A/C. Most slope back RTS's did have factory A/C however.
RDChilds
If you want to see some of the old RTS slope back buses, go by Green Bus Lines. There are about 10 of the old slop[ed back buses parked near the garage waiting for scrap. get pictures while you can.
They've all been modified, of course, you can easily tell the backpack from the original body.
Those buses, sitting with their backs against Farmers blvd by Rockaway blvd, really don't look like Slopebacks with the modifications done to them. They look more like the current RTSs. If you want to see a real slopeback, check out the pictures I sent Trevor Logan on Transitworld.org. Also, the same pictures are on this website if you check out post #17600 dated sometime in July I believe, under "Slopeback Pictures Here". This bus is owned by Jetaway company located in Brooklyn and usually this bus can be found at Belmont Park racetrack ferrying people to and from their cars to the track area. This is the only known true slopeback to still be in operation, as far as us veteran bustalkers know of, however right now it is probably stored for the winter since there are no horse races in January.
BIG AL
One more thing I forgot to add is that this slopeback bus owned by Jetaway has A/C. Some of you have been questioning if slopebacks did or didn't have A/C in them. YES, they did. The unit was in the slope but worked very poorly, propting the modifications to squareback.
BIG AL
However, if you look at post # 17600 you'll see the bus in its original white/yellow Port Authority livery. If you go to Belmont in search of the bus you'll now find it in a s*** brown / white livery. Big Al's pictures were taken late June, early July and the bus was repainted shortly thereafter.
I've got some pics in the new livery, but I took them at about 6:15 PM as the sun was setting with a bright orange glow so the color didn't come out so great. The bus is usually parked in the "blue" parking lot which is accessed by going north on the east side of the grandstand, past the track, under an overpass and then turning left into the lot.
Have not seen the rear door open. Its a gull wing type opening, not a push type that most NYC RTS's come equipped with. Perhaps in the spring with the arrival of Daylight Savings time, something can be arranged ( Big Al ? )
Actually, I have pictures of the bus with the new paint job on it that I need to get out to Trevor to post. The pictures came out very good as they were taken around the beginning of September. However, I still could not get one with the back doors open. Every time I see the bus operating, I don't have my camera. And when I finally catch it with my camera, it is parked with no driver, so I can not get a pic with the "rear elevator" type doors opened. Hopefully, I can get a shot sometime this spring. And yes, that new sh*t brown paint job does look horrible on the bus.
BIG AL
But the A/C units on the slopebacks were poorly designed. SEPTA opted for a roof mounted A/C over the flat back retrofit kit for two reasons, it would have been more expensive to modify the body and to have a standard A/C unit on every bus. Nevertheless, the A/C worked and we had the coolest (no pun intended) looking RTS fleet in the U.S. I just wish that NovaBus would bring back the slopeback.
Personally, I like the RTS buses more without the slope-back. it gives them more of a bullet appearance.
Houston had the Sutrak units mounted on the RTS-01 buses and they retained their slopes as well. They always looked nice and their windows didn't seem to have all that scrachitti. Our 152 RTS-01s were retrofitted between 1981 and 1983. Unless someone else used the roof mounted A/Cs first on the RTS-01s/03s, Houston was the first to modify their buses this way. It looked great.
I always thought about Nova bringing back the RTS-01 look. It won't happen though, even with the newest technology because TAs will forever be weary of them.
Just saw a live shot on the 5PM news of the MBTA bus accident in Boston. The T bus involved is an RTS # 0160. It appears to have suffered extensive damage as well. The rear bumper appeared pushed in somewhat, the grille on the right rear bottom of the bus is mostly on the ground,and the black grille above the engine compartment appears to have been damaged extensively. Both buses are being towed from the scene.
Mark Watson
As of now these buses are airport shuttles. It seems when the monorail reopens these buses will be sent away. My question is, where will they go, they can't be retired or scrapped, Coach USA just bought these from NJT. If anyone knows the future of these beauties please inform me.
Thanks.
Does Coach USA always buy old buses from other companies? On their fleet I have only seen MANs, 40ft and 60ft, and I never saw any newer buses, other than the MCIs.
Hey, guess what? Coach USA is based in Houston. Their depot is next to Metro's old age home for buses. I'll see if they have anything noteworthy over there. As far as their buses go, I've seen all types of newer MCIs and some Prevosts and some European buses as well. No telling what else they have.
BTW, they may have so many old buses becuase Coach USA is made up of many smaller bus companies.
It depends on their territory...
In Philadelphia, for it's PHL Airport shuttle system, CUSA uses a mix of ex-Dallas Neoplan AN-440s and brand new Nova LFS coaches.
At Red & Tan, I've spotted a few newer Orion V (probably WMATA rejects similar to Green Bus Lines 5500-series) in service at Newark Airport.
I know there are a lot of other examples, but these are the ones that come to mind.
Those belong to CUSA? I thought the airport bought them for it's own use. Also, if those Orion Vs were WMATA buses, they would have a "wooden" interior.
I thought the Orion V buses at Newark Airport might have been WMATA rejects since they have the Vultron destination sign. I have also seen these Orions in service on other CUSA operated services in NYC.
Someone awhile back asked if any of Suffolk's older buses were repainted in the new scheme. Well, this morning I saw Gillig #9647 in the new scheme, the first older bus I've seen repainted.
One of these days I'll have to try out their Orions, I have heard they are quite fast. Does anybody know if they are hard seaters?
The 8:29am N21 to Flushing was a Cummins, bus 157, which I also had yesterday and it ran horrible and was slow as hell.
The Cummins coughed and sputtered as usual, and we ran 15 minutes late into Flushing. Also you can't listen to your personal radio on the Cummins L10G powered Orions, because the engine is so loud, and creates so much interference reception is impossible (on the new Series 50 buses reception is fine).
I was on Staten Island and rode some of the buses, all Orions. They ran pretty good and were pretty fast. Sure would leave a Cummins in the dust (they use DD Series 50).
I ate in a chinese food place by the Staten Island Mall and happened to meet several employees that maintain buses at Yukon, who are from Detroit Diesel.
So I told them just how bad Cummins is. I told them about LIB's problems with the Cummins Orions, and they said LI Bus could replace them with DD Series 50G. And then I got a suprise, one of the employees gave me a cap that says Atlantic Diesel, Detroit Diesel on it! They must have been impressed with my knowledge of buses. They first thought I was a bus driver! It also didn't hurt to say "Cummins sucks!".
I also saw some RTS's at Yukon, but they weren't running on the routes I took (S59,S79). SI is lucky, they got some good buses compared to us. Even though the Orions are scratched up they ran pretty good.
Well going home from Flushing was of course, messed up. My N21 to Glen Cove was only a few minutes late, but the N20 bus before us never came, so our bus was packed until Great Neck. Fortunately we had bus 350, one of the new Series 50 buses so it ran good.
At Great Neck an N20 diesel Orion caught up to us (it was nearly empty), but the sign said "N20 Greenvale". That must've been a mistake or something, or maybe that guy was covering for the N20 bus that broke down (most likely a Cummins) and couldn't run all the way to Hicksville.
I really wish LI Bus would get the $$ to replace those horrible Cummins engines. It should help. But we really need more buses.
Now this truely takes the cake. Scrapped Mabstoa buses 3030 & 3033 have been sent to Jamaica depot to be put back in service. Bus 3030 still has BX15 on it's destination signs. Both these buses look like they just came out of hell. Both are still in their original paint schemes where you can read "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT AUTHORITY" on the sides which were scraped off when they were scrapped. I spoke to the foreman and he can't even believe or understand why they would send us those buses but the orders were to fix them and put them in service. One of the mechanics I spoke to who was working on 3033 had the engine opened up and looked like he was checking the valves and lifters. He told me he was doing a complete inspection. A check of the roster shows these buses were sent to Nimco! They do not appear to have been stripped of anything. I get the feeling somebody in charge of transfers is trying to spite somebody in the depot as any one of a number of 4000's sitting in storage could easily have been sent over. Go figure. I never thought I would hear myself say this but: SOMEBODY PLEASE BRING BACK 1746!!!!!!!!
BIG AL
Also, I forgot to mention, we still have 4355 sitting in the depot which was scrapped because of an oil leak. And 3870 had nothing wrong with her other than high miles. I'm sure that would have been a much easier fix then putting 2 old scrapped buses back in service which appear to have been unused for a very long time. The stories transit pulls off just seem to get more and more bizarre as time passes.
BIG AL
YOU BETEER NOT BE LYING TO ME!!!!! DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG I'VE DREAMED OF THIS MOMENT!!!!! AND WHO'S TO SAY 3870, 3881, AND 1746 WON'T BE ROLLING BACK IN!!!!!?????
If they're bringing back anymore buses from the dead, I'd like to make a few requests. Okay, here goes. Tell them to bring back 3009, and make sure it still has the old 6v71N inside, PA3282, PA1757, and you can throw in PA1826 from Hudson Pier, and 4191 can be brought back from Edgewater!
You know, I always try to read the post I am interested in last, but I just couldn't wait! And to think, I was going to post a question actually asking if scrapped buses could be towed back from Nimco! HA! The curse of PA1746 lives on!
This week I saw numerous RTS buses (4300s-4500s) riding on the SI Expressway (in groups of three). The buses were stripped of their MTA logos but still had their #s on them. They were being driven not towed. I guess the TA is trying to sell these buses. They must have been heading to some place in Jersey. Some of these buses should have been sent to Jamaica instead of the 3000s Big Al mentioned.
Peace,
Kevin
There are about 7 RTS' buses (4 at Stengel, 3 at Stengel Annex) that are stripped and ready for Shredding that could be brought back (one is missing an engine door - the other a side panel).
Hey - I'm all for old buses back in service.
Bring back RTS 1267!
flx 7595
Once the decals and lettering are off the bus-that's it-she's not coming back! Those buses in CS annex WILL BE SCRAPPED OR SOLD!
Actually, 4505 is sitting at Yukon, stripped, but ready to be put back in service.
Here's a weirdie I had tonight on the Q17: 3869! Yep that's not a misprint!!! Her ride was ok but loud and kinda slow when accelerating-but descent. She was on run 017 on the Q17-a coincidence in a way. And then to hear THIS- that 3030 and 3033 are back from the dead?! Another point: 4486 was on the Q32 tonight with HP Stickers on her. Why couldn't the remaining 4400-4500s from GH or KB go to Jamaica for extra service instead of crappy dawgs 3030 and 3033? Boy is Jamaica getting screwed!!!
Q17#3869Gary
Those this mean that the lovely sound of a 6V-71N will be gracing NYC streets again. Now I really will be hunting those two busses down. BIG AL let every body know how they run after you get the pleasure of driving one.
Sorry, but the only bus with that old engine is 3009 which is currenty at Maspeth Storage. With the barrage of rolling scrap hitting the streets, I wouldn't be surprised to se her in service again.
I would assume that the Cooper companies are tired of waiting for new equipment & have pushed nycDOT for permission to obtain addl. equipment any where they can. It is up to the individual operators to inspect what's available and pick what appears to be the best of the bunch. We did that several years ago & got to Liberty before the others to get the best of the bunch (16 each -03 Slope Backs). Some turned out to be big head aches, but most provide reliable service until the Orions came in.
Mr t__:^)
Hello!!! I am not talking about Jamaica Bus Lines, Cooper family or anything like that. I'm talking about Jamaica depot with the New York City Transit Authority! HELLO!!!
BIG AL
Buses 3030 and 3033 were last operated out of Flatbush Depot. They never did make it to the Bronx, and I had them incorrectly sent to Nimco on my roster. Until yesterday, there were no 1983 RTS's in service. This does take the cake!! But I have warning...it's going to get worse. Stay tuned!!
Mark
Where were they? And how worse? Worse like 1385 coming out of stroage at Edgewater or just worse like some more 3000s.
I drove 3018 out of f;atbush in July 1998.
Whole drivers console being held together by duct tape.
please tell me she's not coming back
well looks like at nyct everything old is new again. maybe they can resurrect some 1981 rts buses and paint the interiors blue again i.e drivers dash area.
Well here's some good news and bad news for you 1982 coach fans.
Good news: bus 3030 is in such bad shape that Jamaica is shipping it out to Casey Stengel storage yard to stay scrapped. 3033 is in bad shape also, but not as bad as 3033, however it may also get shipped out. No decision on that bus yet.
Bad news: buses 1747, 1752 & 1844 were scrapped today! (I lost the bet on 1844) 3573 & 3575 were also scrapped. They will be shipping tonight or tomorrow to Casey Stengel storage also along with 3030. They are just waiting for the farebox and radio to come out. Decals and logos were already pulled off. I believe this is what Q5Merrick reported would happen several weeks ago. 1740 & 1755 are the only ones left now.
If you think that's alot of juice for one day, check out my next post!
BIG AL
3033 is in bad shape also, but not as bad as 3030. (I accidently typed 3033 twice in that sentence)
BIG AL
I knew the 3000s would replace the 82s.
No, the 3000's were not sent to replace the '82s. They were sent because we are short local buses because of the scrappings and accidents etc. Sorry to disagree with you 2150, but I hope to God they do not pull more 3000's from retirement. You never drove these garbage on wheels so you really don't know. And most of the operators hate them like me. They ride extremely hard and rattle your fillings out. I remember the 3200's we had were for the most part horror stories. The interlocks worked like crap and they were slow as hell. We and QV were so happy to get rid of those damn things and now the prospect of them returning makes me want to vomit.
BTW: 9072 is in the repair shop with the whole back of the bus taken apart down to the frame. This is by far the largest repair I've seen Jamaica handle in the 5 plus years I've been there. It should be back in service in a couple of weeks. I'll keep everybody posted.
BIG AL
3804 & 3810 disappeared from the 126th Street roster this week. Maybe they're also on the way to Jamaica. Someone in TA management must have a hard on for Jamaica Depot. You're right about the 3000's. They totally sucked. What an ass backward transit agency the TA is. While everyone else in the world buys new equipment they recycle garbage.
Calm down you two, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Here's what I feel is going to happen...
3033 will be in service for about a month, then scrapped.
1740 and 1755 will be replaced by 3810 and 3804, or 4191 and 4497, but most likely it will be 4191 and 4775, both n storage.
Edgewater may pull out a few stored locals and send them over to JAM and then after their last hurrah, they will be sent back to languish and die sad, lonely deaths, together.
The new Orions will come in resulting in a number of bus changes, scrappings, and storage. SE Queens will most likely be freed of all 1982 and 1985 coaches of any type and you'll get some TMCs and you'll be estatic!
>>>Good news: bus 3030 is in such bad shape that Jamaica is shipping it out to Casey Stengel storage yard to stay scrapped.<<<
Good news?! My dream may be dying! If any one from DOB is reading this, SEND MORE 3000s. The drivers like them, they really do!
I just did a walk-thru at JAM and, yes, I found 4873 and 4875-4880 being serviced and inspected. I didn't see 3030, 3033, 3573, 3575, 1747, 1752 or 1844, as they were shipped out to College Point Yard. I am really afraid to say this but, I think JAM will be shafted again by not receiving the balance of the 1997 Nova caoaches from UP. They should have received 9260, 9262, 9265-9267 and 9269--a total of 6 buses. Instead UP sent the 7 4800's. All you can do is shake your head.
I've saved the best for last. You ready? Sitting in Jamaica Depot from Maspeth SCRAP YARD is bus 4003!! It looks like hell and still has Ulmer Park logos on it and the old paint and "M" logos. I doubt wheather that hunk of junk will see a day in service on the Q5Merrick.
I believe 3033 was still there but Q5Merrick may have missed it. It is sitting along the wall near the body shop but it is hidden by other buses on what we call the Q.C. line. 3030 was sitting outside by the guard shack and the rest were inside on the defect line or Q.C. lines. I was told they were probably shipping out tonight or early tomorrow. I know 4003 wasn't there when I left at 5:30pm so this latest movement must have happened after I left.
Everything 2150 is mentioning is really hypothetically speaking as T/A
always does the unexpected. If we were really going to receive buses from Edgewater, the 4000's that 2150 speaks of, then why bother sending us those 3000's in the first place? We all just have to wait and see what they do next. One thing that I would like to mention is does anybody think those old 3000's would ever have been sent to Staten Island? Is there anybody who would still like to argue with Q5Merrick and myself over which depot receives the worst garbage?
BIG AL
I'm glad that 3030 and 3033 are gone-but since Jamaica needs local service-why did they get rid of 1747 1752 and 1844? Use those until 9072 comes back but apparently that's not happening. I remember 1 thing that QV did a year ago. Buses 3902, 3915 and 3950 were retired at 1 time-sitting in storage at Crosstown awaiting their fate. One day I heard that all 3 buses returned to QV with new paintjobs. To this day, all 3 buses are still on the road at QV. 3915 and 3950 were doing service on the Q46 today-both looked in descent shape. Point being-why can't the MTA take a recently retired bus-like 4191 and put her in service at Jamaica? I can understand that they're sending 4800s over to Jamaica from UP but not for Express Service. 9257-9269 SHOULD be over doing Express Service for Jamaica-not the 4800s. Send the 3800s from UP over to Jamaica to do local service. Anything that's at least still in running shape-send to Jamaica. Buses like 3030 or 4003 is making SE Queens look like the doghouse. Who makes the decision what buses go where? Why did the MTA EVEN ATTEMPT reviving 3030 and 3033-beats the hell out of me. I'd rather take 1248 from Jetway and revive that. I mean look at the way Jetway buses look. They look like they went through a war. 3030 and 3033 look like that now. A bus that's dead-there's no way of reviving it.
3030, 3033 and 4003 are dead-may they rest in peace! 1747 1752 and 1844 are also dead. May they do the same.
Q17# Who Knows what will be on this route next Gary
I don't see what you're so upset about. Personally, I hope 3033 and 4003 make it into service whih is probably what will happens since 4003 didn't come with a companion, I'm assuming she's the replacement for 3030.
I don't think buses 3033 and 4003 will ever make it to service-to be honest. They're in too shoddy of shape to see a day of revenue service again. The 4800s are a replacement for the 1700s. However they need local buses. Now 139-146 are at JG-for what reason who knows but I think they should go to Jamaica for revenue service. Why can't they? They did it at CAS because they were short when their buses got repowered-why can't they do the same for Jamaica?
I guess that explains the seven or eight RTS buses I see at Stengel and Stengel annex. Some have too much snow to see the # on top - and all look like they've been stripped.
Must be the ones that Big Al mentioned.
flx7595
3030 and 3033 are ex FLA buses.
B44#3030Mike
B46#3033Mike
I read somewhere a while back that the MBTA would be adopting a new unique paint scheme for its buses serving the three 'CT' crosstown routes. Any news on when this might happen?
Jim
It already happened. 0262, 0263-0285 had teal striping and CT decals added last September. Also got bike racks and automatic stop announcement eqipment.
Thanks for the update. I was in Boston the day after Christmas, and saw an 8900 on the CT3 at Andrew, so I assumed the new scheme was still in the works. Are they running the repaints on the weekend CT3 service also?
Jim
Previous message: Thanks for the update. I was in Boston the day after Christmas, and saw an 8900 on the CT3 at Andrew, so I assumed the new scheme was still in the works. Are they running the repaints on the weekend CT3 service also?
Yes, although they are assigned to Albany St. garage, they send 4 over to Cabot garage on Friday night to handle the weekend CT3 service.
That's usually the case with Saturday/Sunday bus runs. Albany's routes (47, 57, 504, 553 and 554) have Cabot buses, while Fellsway's routes get the Charlestown buses. I've seen Crosstown RTSs at Andrew Station on Saturdays, so I agree with rtspcc in Albany sending over a few of their CTs.
As for the paint scheme for the Crosstown fleet - I don't mind it. And the huge "C" arrow near the doors really gives a huge clue to what it is...as well as the Crosstown markings all over the bus.
I have another question about the rear of RTS buses. On the newer RTS buses delivered to NYC, Boston and other properties, the top side area adjacent to the last window is all white. On other RTS buses this area would be black in an aesthetic attempt to bring the window area all the way to the back of the bus. Why was this black area eliminated on those newer buses? I assume this is either related to an optional component on these buses or is some sort of option by itself, since I've seen newer RTS buses delivered to other cities which have the black area back there.
Just curious.
Jim
I don't know for sure, but my thinking is that it became an option in 1993. In New York City the TA and the NYC-DOT privates chose to have the rear section white. Queens Surface Transit chose to stick with the black simulated window look. Jamaica Buses Inc. has a unique thing going because there is no white in their paint scheme.
Wayne
Why was this black area eliminated on those newer buses?
There were several steps of the evolution of the area immediately behind the last window. Original RTS's through mid-1993 production had the wedge back window. Depending on how an individual TA specified, the wedge window was either starkly contrasted with the rest of the white, or the remaining area was painted black to square it off.
The first RTS with no back wedge window at all was SMART #9301. After that and to this day, no RTS has been made with the wedge window. Some transit systems still paint that entire area black to create the image of the old arrangement.
Neil
I had read someplace that the reason the rears were redesigned is that so they could hold more electronic and emission control systems which would not fit on the older design because of that small window in the rear, known as the pork chop window and panel. 8401 is the first bus in NYCT to come with the new design along with a new dash panel for the operators.
BIG AL
Has anybody noticed the ridiculous rescheduling that Greyhound and Peter Pan just did this past Tuesday? If you're leaving from New Britain, CT... GOOD LUCK! Here's how bad some of it has just got:
After 7:05 AM, there isn't another direct bus to Boston again until 2:45 PM. This means I must take CT Transit's "P" bus to Hartford and walk to Union Station. It also means that I'd have to buy the round-trip ticket for Boston in Hartford.The one-way connector back to New Britain is $10.Altogether, this costs about $50. The fare from New Britain (barring a price increase) is/was $39 round-trip.
The first bus in the morning to New York City doesn't even leave until 8:20 AM. It was at 7:20 AM until Tuesday morning. This also means a day-trip to Philadelhpia is out.(1 PM is the earliest I could get there now.) It's not worth going the 210 miles in one direction and be lucky to get two hours in Center City.
Here's the worst part of it all: The last bus from New York City in the evening to New Britain is only at 6:30 PM. Why isn't there another bus at 8:30 or 9 PM? Until last Tuesday, there was a 10:30 PM local which would stop in New Britain at 1:40 AM. While there is an 11:30 PM bus available, it only gets as close as the Bonanza Bus terminal in Farmington. Who wants to call a taxi at 2 AM? No thanks!
This means anything south of New York City will require a more expensive bus/train split.
In closing, let's all e-mail www.perterpanbus.com and complain until they all get sick of us and are forced to make things better! (Ms. Frances R. Twining is their Customer Service Manager. Reach her at FRANKIE@PETERPANBUS.COM. Just watch the generic answer which she'll give to you in response. Mine was too funny! Later!
Having been a Hartford area resident for 28 years, I can't imagine that the number of passengers from New Britain to Boston or New York City is that great, so you should be thankful there is still some service. I haven't studied the latest Peter Pan/Greyhound pooled schedule from Hartford to Boston and New York, but the prior schedule leads me to believe the pooled service is better than the independent schedules of each carrier 3 or 4 year ago. As an aside, if you take the P bus from New Britain to downtown Hartford, you can get a free transfer to the A, E or F to avoid the walk to Union Station.
those buses seen on the si xway were headed for yukon. 4505 stripped with no numbers as well as 4462,4463,4455,4482,4490,4523 have arrived. it appears they have not seen service in awhile. 3909 also arrived with ads for the movie a man on the moon.
buses 130,133,134 and 136 have returned from their brief foray at local service at casey stengel. also 126 and 127 back after repowering. 120 and 125 sit idle on defect line. none of these buses in service. nyct dob appears to have no idea what they are doing.
Orion Coach 139 was sitting at Ulmer Park Yesterday. Asked the boss whether we were getting some of those busses - his response: "I Hope Not!"
123 is still at MCH saw it on the M1 at Cedar St & Bdwy .
Stengel is getting its repowered buses back and as we do - the Orion suburbans will leave.
Back from repowering is 261 (with new paint job too) and 289 (with outside summer signs "Mail.com" and "Georgi Vodka" and inside ads about 'Spring being chain snatching season'. But on the Q44 today - she had good pickup.
Stengel still has Orions 115 (Q12) and 146 (Q14) in service today (Sat). 142 was on the Q15 yesterday as was 138.
flx7595
>>>In related news, CTA plans to replace the remaining MAN Articuleted buses with about 75 low-floor articulateds within a year or two. The 4400-4875 and 4900-4914 series RTS's are going for General Overhaul, which will include installation of air conditioning. Interestingly, the 5300-5769 series Flxibles, contemporaries of the RTS's, are not going to be overhauled, but will be scrapped instead, with only 12 years of service. It does not pay to be an orphan!<<<
I got this from a Chicago bus fan site. Those Flxibles really sounded nice too. I heard one on my cousins tape from Chicago. Good sound. Oh well. Me thinks they will be replaced by the 400+ Novas that are currently coming in. Sorry Trevor, it seems like it doesn't pay to be a Flxible.
The CTA is planning to scrap its 5300-series Flxible Metros in 2003 and 2004 (assuming that funding is available for replacements). They began arriving in 1991, about six months after the first of the TMC-RTS08s hit the streets. According to former co-workers (I was a B/O from 1970 to 1976), the Flxibles have required far more maintenance than the RTSs. Many appear to have sagging suspensions and rusted body panels. Joints across the roof in the front and rear of each of these Flxibles are covered with layers of duct tape. However, in fairness to the manufacturer, these were not "off-the-shelf" buses. The CTA demanded numerous changes in the original factory specs. Could that have been a factor? I dunno.
The 469 Nova LFSs, which have just begun arriving, will replace two series of buses much older than the Flxibles: 17-year-old Flyers (9800- & 1600-series) and the bulk of the CTA's fleet of 40-foot MAN Americanas (4000-series) delivered in 1985.
-Dan Terkell
Wow, it's amazing that so many TAs are waiting years to get their first order of buses. In Houston, when Metro says something is being put out to pasture, they only have a few months at best, not years.
WHAT??? NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! This CAN'T happen; there's BOUND to be a way they can be rehabbed or bid to the right person who can fix one up. Besides, they're WAY to young to go. I am the curator of a local bus and trolley museum which owns a 1979 Grumman Flxible, basically of the same design, which is almost 22 years old and still solid as ever. How could a 91 Flxible Metro POSSIBLY be so beyond repair? Surely SOMETHING can be done.....long live the Flxibles!
The only thing that can save them is a lack of funding. Flxibles have always been hit or miss IMO, these were obviously misses. Sorry.
Design changes demanded by the CTA may have affected the reliability of these buses. (I couldn't really prove it though.) However, they were definitely not "off-the-shelf" buses.
A later series of Flxible Metros, the 6000s, delivered in '95 & '96,(also "customized") is already showing bits of rust as well. (It's not a problem with other makes of similar age.)
-Dan Terkell
For those of you who want to see the liveries first go to the Suffolk Bus Co (a private company) website
www.suffolkbus.com that has the new livery - then go to the right side of the page and click on the link to Suffolk Transit Timetables.
That will bring you to the Suffolk County site and a picture of the old livery. I e-mailed the county exec's office a while back and said that since there's new colors they should change it and put an e-mail link on their site. The response was from the office that they passed my e-mail to someone and that person said it was a good idea and they would look it to it. Yeah, right as you can see. I guess when you have to pay police 105,000 a year there ain't much for anything else.
I get a kick out of the home page photos...the big round ass of a Crown school bus!! They don't have any of them, do they? They're
considered a western bus, I don't think I EVER saw one east of New Mexico!!!
The new ST livery sure looks a lot better than the old one. That ugly light greena nd light blue just somehow should never have been put together.
The blue and yellow scheme on the ST Orion V's makes them look almost like the Orion V's at BeeLine (Liberty Lines Transit)
I moved to the Huntington part of Suffolk County in 1976. Suffolk Bus services school districts on the south part of suffolk county and is located in the Bay Shore Area. They were never hired as a contract carrier for any of the school districts in my immediate area. My travels have only taken me past their facility once about 4 years ago. If that Crown was still on the property I would have seen it since it would have looked so old compared to what they had in their current fleet.
Without contacting the company or web site designer its hard to know if that was just a picture or an actual company vehicle from long ago.
Just when we thought that TCC wasn't doing anymore repaints, I saw 2802 on the Q18 in full nudity with not only the new repaint but script numbers all around. 2802's rear number is in script on the left side-not in the middle top. To be honest, that bus numbers look better on 2802 than on her sister 2803. But let's get an Orion in the repaint-not a TMC.
Q18#2802Gary
Today Jamaica depot received in buses 4873, 4875, 4876, 4878 & 4880 from Ulmer Park, buses I thought were supposed to go either to scrap or to storage. They will replace buses 1747, 1752, 1844, 3573 & 3575.
I guess we are no longer receiving in any more Novas from U.P. These 48's are the very first TMC's to be operated out of Jamaica depot. I got on 2 of them to check out and will admit they are very clean inside with the high back soft seats installed similar to the Novas. This could however spell the end for the 1700's since there are now only 2 left. Like Q5Merrick said, stay tuned, as more bizarre transfer news should unfold very shortly.
BIG AL
These transfers are so bizarre that I think Trevor Logan is clueless on this. Trevor-can you help us out on these BIZARRE transfers? All I'm going to say is What the hell is going on?
I rode Orion 274 on the Q20B, the engine sounded like a Series 50 but the middle seat was still there.
When they put in the Series 50, what did they do this time so the middle seat stayed. All the seats in the back did appear to be higher than usual, so maybe they just raised all the seats so the engine could fit in.
I was wondering the same thing - same thing with 289.
flx7595
Tonight, MCI busses 2757 and 2758 from Yukon Depot were sitting in front of Ulmer Park. Is Yukon Depot losing their new MCI's already?
A few drivers I spoke to said that 10 MCI's came in and were going to be used on the x28. Perhaps thats why Jamaica got UP's 4800s and Yukon got their Orion Coaches back?
Seems as if the weird bus transfers are getting even weirder! Can anyone shed some light on this?
Shaun
The days of Casey Stengel operating Orion express coaches on local lines is over. They are in the process of sending buses 129-138 to Castleton and 139-146 to ULMER PARK. With 121, 123 and 124 heading to Mother Hale, CS will now be left with 101-119, for service exclusively on the X51!
Now back to everyone's favorite NYCT depot, Jamaica Depot. They just keep getting dumped on.
Um, what are they gonna do about their local lines? They seemingly don't have enough buses without resorting to express equipment.
The x51 doesn't need use all 19 of the suburban Orions and this rt.It usually ends up using a few transitsevery now and then.The local rts will still have a few 100 series runninng on them.
The x51 doesn't need use all 19 of the suburban Orions and this rt.It usually ends up using a few transits every now and then.The local routes will still have a few 100 series runninng on them.
>> The days of Casey Stengel operating Orion express coaches on local lines is over. They are in the process of sending buses 129-138 to Castleton and 139-146 to ULMER PARK <<
This is TA logic. Send Orion busses to a depot that has never seen them before and then train drivers for 7 lousy busses. Why not just send all the Orions over to Castleton and send a few more MCI's to UP, equiptment drivers are already trained on. That just makes too much sense for the MTA to do.
Yeah, but then Castleton would be like: "WTF, we want our MCIs, send them some Orions!"
129-138 going to Yukon-ok that's fine. 139-146 going to Ulmer Park? Why Ulmer Park? Send them to Jamaica!!! They need anything to be in local service-they're short!!! UP has the MCI's and some Novas to cover their Express Service. This whole week the MTA has definitely stood for Money Thrown Away!!! 4591 from Jamaica has gotten scrapped for the silliest reason-cause the MTA didn't want to fix her. Poor SE Queens!
Q32#146Gary-was on her Thursday and Friday
>>>4591 from Jamaica has gotten scrapped for the silliest reason-cause the MTA didn't want to fix her. Poor SE Queens!<<<
That's okay though! They're trying to fix three other buses instead! 3030, 3033, and 4003! You get three for the price of one! Unless they go back to storage that is.
3030 is getting scrapped as of today. 3033 and 4003 they're trying to fix but they're in such a shoddy state that they may not be saved.
Like I said if the Bronx is getting rid of their 4400s-they can send those to Jamaica to replace the buses that were scrapped. If they can send a few to QV then they can definitely send a few to Jamaica. Why is Jamaica getting cheated so much?
Orions can't come to Jamaica because they will not fit through the wash. It was already tried and they had to wind up backing the bus out. 4003 looks like it came out of World WarIII and lost! And I don't even want to mention about how 3033 looks. I'll leave that for you guys to imagine. Anybody know if Q.V. depot has been seeing any of these bizarre moves?
BIG AL
The last buses QV got from other depots are the following:
4150-from Quill
4175, 4198 from KB
4484, 4499 and 4501 from GH.
Other than that, QV has not been getting anything like Jamaica has been getting.
Q88#4150Gary
146 couldn't be heading to UP ,she was running on the q14/q15 as of 11:45pm
Well, I've come up with what I feel the DOB will do as far as local and express buses go until the Orion Hybrids arrive.
First, this drama was born in Queens, I feel, and it shall end there as you will see.
JAM depot has a shortage of local buses due to the fact that they have overzealously scrapped a number of 1985 local coaches, accidents, and maintenence of a bad crop of buses. Here is a list of the buses JAM has scrapped in the last two months: PA1746, PA1747, PA1752, PA1844, 3572, 3573, 3575, 3822, 3870, 3881, 4119, 4129, 4139, 4353, 4355, and 4591.
Now here are the list of buses sent to replace them: About 6 92xx series coaches from UP, 3030(scrap), 3033(pending scrap) and about five or six 48xx TMC coaches. Unfortunately, sending express coaches and buses that can't even make it out of the depot does nothing for the local scene and it may only get worse. I see 3804 and 3810 there by next week to kill off PA1740 and PA1755, or instead they may send 4191 and 4497 or instead 4775 which is currently at Herkimer. These buses will probably see service on the local routes since it seems no local coaches or coming out of storage, those that are have been sent to Yukon.
UP was able to send their 48xx coaches over due to the fact they recieved MCI coaches from Yukon which are in turn getting their Orions back from CAS and some stored buses from Carlton and an active bus from Manhattansville (4523). So, the question is, where does this leave CAS which was using express buses on it's local routes? Their coaches are slowly but surely returning to SI. All I can see are some locals finally being recommisioned form that vacation spot known as Edgewater to relieve the pressure in Queens. Not to worry Big Al, I think that the 3000 recommissions were a failed experiment, but I could be wrong.
In the end though, the Orion Hybrids will arrive, depots will feel the ripple affect as MaBSTOA gets their pick first and the rest of the depots get whatever buses come their way. I expect all of Queens 82 and 85 RTS coaches to be scrap, the 86 coaches in mothballs and the 87 coaches on borrowed time. PA1826 will be pulled from service and preserved, that's how I see it anyways.
What do you all think?
It has already been planned that Queens county is not getting any new buses in the long run .All the other 4 counties are getting .Queens is getting the leftovers .
As of Sunday, Yukon will have only three local routes, the S55/56, S61/91 and the S79. All other local routes will be operated out of Castleton. To facilitate this, Yukon will send Castleton 1999 Orions 6252 to 6328. This will give Castleton 187 1999 Orions (meanwhile, Jamaica received 3030, 3033 and 4003 this week....hmmmm, interesting--and ENY operates 125 1999 Nova RTS's...hmmmm, makes you wonder). Anyways, Yukon now only operates 63 local buses--42 RTS's and 21 Orions. They just received 10 ex-MaBSTOA 4300-4500 buses that were stored at Carlton Yard (at Cartlon and Atlantic Avenues in Brooklyn) awaiting scrap.
Castleton just received 10 Orions from Casey Stengel and gave 10 MCI's to Yukon, who in turn sent 10 MCI's to Ulmer Park. There will be a quiz on all this tomorrow.
Mark
ENY should have 1/3 of the 4900's -It operates a alot of long runs and it is the only depot that seems to get to hold on to its original fleet.Plus ENY was suppose to get the 8400's that ended up at 126 after they had them for a week
Why the change? Will the S79 have mainly RTS buses once again?
We know of this new bus only these facts: it will be a low-floor vehicle with a stepped rear section and a higher seating capacity. It is supposed to be, appearance/design-wise, a cross between the current Orion V and VI.
Has anyone seen any early images of this new model?
If so, is it attractive? Unattractive? Unique looking? What do you think are the chances for this unit's success in the marketplace based on what we currently know?
ALL, Orions are ugly. Boxes on wheels IMO
Peace,
ANDEE
I don't really think all Orions are ugly. The Orion I was really nice looking, quite quaint, and I sorta like the design of the Orion V, except there is too much space in the front below the windshield. The Orion VI is ugly IMO. I think that the WMATA is getting them and one person here rode one.
Are you talking about WMATAs 2000 seires Orions?! You're crazy! They're the third best looking transit bus in production behind the RTS and D40LF!
Are you talking about WMATAs 2000 seires Orions?! You're crazy! They're the third best looking transit bus in production behind the RTS and D40LF!
I don't have the time right now to challenge your opinion thoroughly, but for the time being, I will say that I could not disagree more.
If you feel that way, then I do not see how you can like WMATAs fleet anymore. All they have are Flxibles which are still pretty common, NABIs, I don't need to explain that one, and hundreds of Orions. If you do not like the Orion VI look, then you should not like any of Orion's products becuase they are absolutely hideous, from the Orion I right on down the line. The Orion VI finally broke the tradition of ugliness some 15 years strong.
Frankly, the only problem I see with WMATAs Orion VI buses is the way their headlamps look in that ugly paint scheme. It makes them look crooked. While I'm ranting, what makes WMATAs fleet so great now? All the New Looks are gone, and they're barely any RTS-03s. Frankly, these are the only buses that made the system interesting. Now what? You can ride MANs in Chi-Town or NY, and Flxibles, NABIs, and Orions are all over the place now. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but WMATA is another Metro-Houston; a variety of uninteresting buses. All we have going for us down here are 90 RTS buses, D40LFs, Vikings, and 4541, a Neoplan that sounds more like a Grumman with each ride.
WMATA has a bunch of Flxibles which would be great out here, but there are more rare Grummans in the same general area so who cares about WMATAs Flxs? They have NABIs, wow, amazing. Note the sarcasm. Some ugly, hideous Orion IIs, and a bunch of ugly Orion V models, and MANs, we don't even need to discuss those monstrosities(sp?). What's so great about that? The only real good thing I see as far as the future WMATA fleet goes, are the Orion VI buses. For anyone who was happy to see the Orion Vs roll into NYC, these buses should be a breath of fresh air.
For anyone who doesn't like the Orion VI, but likes the Orion V, I want you to take a look at the Orion V, then at the Orion VI 2000 series at WMATA. You will see a big difference. You just won't see a box on wheels any more, you'll see a stylish box on wheels.
Sorry to like dump on WMATA like that, but all that had to be said. You can find plenty of TAs with that kind of variety. While I'm at it, let's do a rundown. It'll be "Generic" NYC vs. "Diversified" WMATA.
Here's WMATAs list of bus models
Orion II
Orion V
Orion VI
RTS-03 (technically, this shouldn't be here)
NABI Artics
Flxible B
Flxible D
Flxible E
MAN Artics
Wow, a total of nine models, not bad.
NYCTA:
GMC RTS 04
GMC RTS 06
TMC RTS 06
Nova RTS 06
New Flyer C40LF
New Flyer D60HF
Orion V
Orion V HEV
Nova RTS-06 HEV
MCI D4000
Wow, NYCTA has 10 models. Who knew?
As the tally clearly shows, NYCTA is the more diversified fleet. See, what many people do is group the RTS buses all together, ignoring that they are different models and have different manufactuers. I decided to ungroup them and sort them the correct way. Now, for all to be amazed, NYCTA/MaBSTOA is more diverse than WMATA.
I don't know how I got to this point, but here are the facts and opinions in review:
1. Orions I thru V or ugly (opinion)
2. Orion VI is the best looking Orion ever produced (opinion)
3. WMATAs fleet is not as great is it once was, and could even be considered boring compared to some other TAs or even privates. (opinion)
4. WMATAs fleet is just like Houston's (opinion)
5. By Bustalk Standards (model and manufactuer), NYCTA has a more diverse fleet than WMATA (fact)
Thank you for reading, that is all.
The Orion HEV are Orion VI's not Orion V's
I like the WMATA fleet because, well, they are nice buses. Also, there is a "wooden interior" in every bus, from the flxibles to the VIs. In addition to that, they keep working with their buses, now giving the flxible LED lights, which is what you don't really see in other fleets.(Even though I don't like these on the flxibles). Also, most of the buses that you see in the suburbs are basically new, sicne they get buses almost every year. The fact that the new looks are gone don't bother me that much, they don't really make up the WMATA. That's one of teh reasons i don't think they should get RTSs again. How would a "wooden interior" look like in an RTS? I am well aware that the old ones didn't have them, instead they were offwhite. Also, about the scheme on the VIs, there is barely enough room to but the metrobus logo, and they couldn't even put on the proper blue strip across it. Also, don't forget about the new flyers the WMATA is getting, and supposedly a few Orion VIIs I think.
Houston RTS buses have wooden interiors.
Like, full wooden interiors, like walls and such? That's cool, I didn't know that, but how do they look? For some reason it's hard for me to imagine an RTS with a full wooden interior. What I think is cool about new york's RTS buses is that they have that blue strip inside the bus where the strip onthe outside would be.
They aren't full wood; they just have Formica-type faux-wood paneling in certain locations. It's not that spectacular an effect. On Orion Vs, for example, the side interior walls have woodgrain paneling, the panel behind the driver and by the doors have woodgrain, and a few other accents. Not a big deal.
C
The Orion V to me is on the hideous side. I think the Orion I and the VI is pretty damn cute and even that cute little Orion II that WMATA is running now! The Orion II beats a cutaway any day!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
No it doesn't. The Orion II is uglier than the Orion VI. I don't know who designed them, but they must have been a fan of Star Wars.
They do look like Imperial Shuttles, don't they?
I disagree that they're better than cutaways though. I ride these damn things everyday, and the seating arrangement is highly inefficient compared to a cutaway. Additionally, the screeching-brakes problem has returned (as you recall, WMATA spent a bundle to replace the brake pads on all 42 units early last year). Now they're acting up again.
They're not bad buses, but I'd vastly prefer a nice Chevrolet Express-based cutaway, or (my namesake) an E350 Aerotech Shuttle.
Cheers,
Chris
If Orion keeps making buses like the HEVs in NYC and the 2000 series that WMATA has, I'll maybe just like them. They remind me of LF Flxibles, had Flxible made any.
Any Cummins L10G powered Orion is an ugly one.
I wish they would have kept the Orion I model. Say what you will about the Orion V/VI buses, the Orion I buses are the best looking buses Orion ever made. These buses sort of remind me of a New Look for some reason. Perhaps it's the rounded look of the Orion I that makes me draw the comparison.
No, they're the ugliest bus Orion ever made, along with the Orion II and the Orion V. They look like something that fell out of the WW2 era.
I agree with you. I really think the Orion I beats any Orion design. In this little comic I drew Abdoul, the bad guy, kidnapped cruiser-bus (an Orion I) and converted him to modern standards. I think that would be cool if Orion did so.
Has anyone here seen a preview or image of the new Orion VII...anywhere?
Is anybody else disgusted with the new schedules that Peter Pan has just put out for the northeast? E-mail me and I'll tell you how mad I am!
I had a dream last night that I was coming from the rundown neighboorhood I used to live in and trying to come out to where I currently live now. The 4-Beechnut is a one-shot line and it takes me from in front of my old house, right in front of my new one about 20 odd miles off.
Anyway, I wemt to the corner of Jensen and Caplin to wait for the 4. For some odd reason, Ihad a feeling I'd betting an RTS, even though I new they didn't run on that line anymore. Well, guess what, I did! And this is the wiered part, it was 3030! It passed me up, I'm assuming for lack of breaks as you will see later. I ran after it and caught up to it and it pulled off again with me banging on the half open doors. The driver saw me so I thought he was going to stop, especially since there was another bus ahead, bu he didn't. Imstead 3030 slammed right into the back of 3033 and in turn 3033 slammed into 4003 and caused her to roll down the street and hit a cluster of parked cars. One of the cars started smoking and the residents decided to have a bar-b-que. Needless to say, I never got home in that dream.
while i cant speak for the other boroughs i can give you my theory on ststen island. nyct was supposed to institute two new routes on the south shore this pick. this was the reason for the transfer of the local routes. in 1987 hanley atu pres picketed then nyc surface head larry reuters house. as you all know he is now nyct president. i believe he vetoed the two routes and also ordered the 10 junk buses sent to yukon as payback. right now the legislation lies on patakis desk. he is expected to veto it but may order creation of 2 nyct south shore routes and 2 routes to go to a private company. perhaps big al knows what he has against jamaica depot.
if you like this bus there are two owned by private trans. used on the b110 route from borough park to williamsburg.
Here in Huntington, LI we still run 3 Orion I on the Hart Systems. Coaches 301,302 & 303.
Just a note, Hart Bus 506, which I think is a Gillig, is at Atlantic Diesel. Suffolk Transit 9102, also a Gillig, is also there in the new paint scheme.
Be sure to check out Making Score Newsmagazine (in PDF format) on the MTA Website.
--Mike
I have been trying to get a picture of #6360. This is supposedly the newsest NOVABUS to date, currently operating out of MTV depot. If someone could get a pic of this, id be thrilled.
I saw this bus Friday being moved by a MTV shifter around the depot. Its the first time I ever saw this bus.
I saw it on Friday 11/09 on the M103 going S/B at about 12:00 PM
THE NEW NEOPLAN ARCTIC WILL BE TESTING ON THE STREETS ON WESTCHESTER COUNTY BY THE END OF JANUARY! MAYBE THAT WHAT I HERE.
after reading all the posts about the recent transfer of buses between depots and scrapyards, i sat down today for about 3 hours trying to make sense of the situation... most of the time i was asleep, and that was when the following explanation came to me... things have been kind of boring in the department of buses, and several people in power decided to start moving around buses at random with the soul purpose of confusing busfans... at one point they were considering sending 8 brand new mci's to the scrapyard just to see how many posts that would generate... then another plan was to bring the museum mack 6259 to jamaica and outfit it with a modern farebox and send it out on an express bus run... then they were going to modify an articulated bus and make it double ended and have ready for a short shuttle run operations... one other idea was to interchange mabstoa buses with jamaica, triboro, and green bus lines...
You have it right. Every suit in the TA has to justify his/her job at all times. If they make plans as to what will happen 3 to 6 months from now, following that, they'll have nothing to do and fail to justify their jobs. So as to keep their jobs secure, they have to move buses around, shake things up, constantly change their minds!
As a result, buses 4207,4208,4080,3935, and 4069, currently awaiting scrap at FP, were having fareboxes installed in them tonight. They should be back in service Monday morning.
mike and bill... thanks for taking my post in the right spirit... i was afraid that bus talkers, who have become a serious group, might be annoyed at my silliness...
if you can conceive that the bus division might be just trying to move things around to justify their jobs and drive bus talkers into a frenzy of speculation, then why not reverse the tables on them with bogus reports of strange observations...
what was mci 1938 doing in local revenue service on the b 49 ocean avenue bus in brooklyn?
or report observations of buses, that are known to have been scrapped, appearing ghost like during the overnight hours...
There's a first: TA buses in passenger service being pulled by tow trucks!
They still have engines in them. In addition, all logos and numbers are still intact.However,4069 will have to have front doors installed on it from an out of service 9500 or 5000 series bus. You should've saw the long line of them waiting to get into the maintenance shop on Saturday. The line went all the way down to the depot.
I agree with you somewhat, Bill. It's one thing that alot of these ridiculous moves are done simply to know that a few months down the road, they will have to be sent someplace else again, probably to the scrap yard, thus justifying these peoples jobs in a B.S. sort of way. But it's another thing to keep sending garbage to the SAME depot all the time, and you guys know what depot I'm talking about. When there are definitely better buses sitting in storage, sending over 18 year old scrapped buses, you just can't get any lower than that!
BIG AL
If I were you, I would put in a suggestion to send any recycled buses to Fresh Pond instead of Jamaica. In return, Jamaica could get some 9100s,9500s and 5000s from FP.
Yes, do that. I'm sure the DOB is starved for a good laugh.
A bus operator put in a suggestion to management-about anything?
Mike, please tell me that was a joke.
BIG AL
Wasn't that a retired MSBA Gillig I saw running on the Q60 this morning?......LOL
yes... i think i saw that one too, even though i wasn't in queens... it looked like they tried to repaint it with cheap water colors, because most of the new paint was smearing off...
Just when you think you've heard it all about these insane bus moves concerning Jamaica depot, here comes a new twist. (Better sit down for this one) After I left yesterday at 5:30pm more moves happened. Yes, as Q5Merrick stated, the 3 1982 coaches left with 3030 and the 3500s. However, 3033 is still there. 4003 came in looking like the piece of Sh*t that it is. RTS2150 may be right that only that one came in by itself to replace 3030. Or did it really come in alone? Nope! Bus 3909 snuck in also. THIS IS A SOFT SEATER! This also used to be a Jamaica depot bus that left when the 9500's came in, which is why I made the subject line about "coming around". Now why would they send us 3909 when they are trying to get rid of those old express buses from Jamaica. With this latest move, I can only imagine that they will probably keep 3967 and the 3800's in Jamaica now. The foreman told me today that 1740 & 1755 should be leaving any day now also but with 3909 over here along with the 4800s it just shows Jamaica was once again jerked off!
BIG AL
3909 is probably there to replace 1740. Expect one more "surprise" before all of this is over. I think it'll be old 4191 for one more ride thru Queens and to finally put 1755 on the road to Nimco.
I love old buses, I wish there was more 17xx's, and 30xx's to replace the 39xx's and 40xx series buses, but that would be not fair to Jamaica. Send all those scrapped jamaica buses to fresh pond. This would help even the score between the most neglected depots in the city. 1752 R.I.P.
I love them too, but it looks like for the time being there going to finish off 3030 for good, overhaul 3033 and possibly 4003, and put 3909 back on the road. There's probably one more bus that's on it's way to replace 1755, probably a stored 3800 or something.
Here's a pic that I took in the summer of 1999 of 3030 on Tillary St in Brooklyn:
Enjoy!
But she's definitely a goner!
As far as 1755's replacement is concerned, probably 4191 will replace her-would NOT be surprised.
Q17#3909Gary
3909 as i mentioned previously was in yukon last week. when it left jamaica in 1998 it became a converted passenger backbreaker coach at yukon until our mci buses arrived. its been in a junkyard for awhile.
There is a very important underlying factor to all of this. I want you all to read this slowly: Jamaica is supposed to receive 1996-97 Novas 9260, 9262, 9263, 9265, 9266, 9267 and 9269 from Ulmer Park. Apparently, that is not going to happen. It looks like UP is going to keep those buses. What makes it worse is I believe that 9278-9281 did make it over to MJQuill last week to complete that transfer (9270-9281).
So while CAS, YUK, UP, CS, QV and MJQuill enjoy "junk free" express coaches, JAM still has to put up with the likes of 3909, 3967 and the seven abused 4800's that have apparantly replaced the seven Novas that I just mentioned. Remember, the 4800's ran on Staten Island, and racked up a staggering amount of miles before going to UP, so its only fitting that Jamaica now gets them. Oh and yes, these are the first 1987 TMC RTS's to hit Queens--13 years later!!
Mark
are the new york transit buses equipd.with audio / cameras ? can any
part be held against the operator during an arguement or physical
disturdance . please advise, how does the union feel regarding the abo
-ve? thanks
I saw cameras in the artics running on M23.
Arti
Look carefully, a lot of the artics have empty housings. No cameras inside them.
Peace,
ANDEE
Hello, there,
This is Brandon Bostian again, with the Bartlett Express newspaper. I am the one who posted the message about the police bus about a week ago asking you guys for help identifying it.
Thank you so much for your help in it. The information you guys provided gave an interesting twist to the story, and I couldn't have gotten that information anywhere but BusTalk.
I am including the text of the story below. Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner and our newspaper doesn't have a website, so all I can post is the text version of the story himself. Here it is.
REFURBISHED CITY BUS GIVES POLICE BACKUP PROTECTION
by Brandon Bostian (564 Words)
With an "emergency mobile command center" standing by, the Bartlett Police Department is ready to deal with natural disasters such as tornadoes, floods and earthquakes that may strike within the area. The department purchased an old bus from the Memphis Area Transit Authority, which runs all of the city buses in and around Memphis, and retrofitted it to serve as a mobile base of communications.
All of the emergency services in Bartlett, including fire, ambulance and police, are dispatched from the Bartlett Criminal Justice Center on Appling Road. If that building were to become unusable, all of these emergency services could be dispatched from on board the bus, according to police department inspector Paul Freeman.
The mobile command center has the ability to communicate via radio with any city vehicle--from fire trucks to the garbage trucks. Additionally, men inside the bus can also talk to everyone at once using a special radio frequency that broadcasts to every vehicle in the system.
In addition to the extensive communication facilities, the bus also contains electrical hookups for laptop computers and bathrooms and sinks for workers. The bus is wide enough to house a table for use in planning, and is equipped with heating, air conditioning and its own electric generator.
There are also about a dozen seats on board, allowing the bus to serve as a true base of operations in the event the normal police headquarters is no longer usable. Since the commmand center is a police vehicle, it does sport the traditional blue strobe lights and sirens.
The bus is manned by a minimum of three people: one to drive and two others to operate the radio dispatch equipment. Driving the vehicle requires no special license because their are no passengers on board when the bus is in motion; however, Freeman says that a driver from the fire department would probably drive the bus in an emergency.
Freeman says that the bus has not yet been used in an emergency situation ("Thankfuly," he adds). However, the police department did utilize it to centralize communication when providing security for the presidential candidate George W. Bush's campaign rally in August. Also, the command center has made a few appearances at events like the Bartlett Celebration festival.
Since the bus sits in the police lot for extended periods of time, maintenance is regularly scheduled. The engine is cranked and allowed to run for a few minutes about once a week, according to Freeman. Also, personel from the City of Bartlett maintenance shops regularly stop to inspect the bus and change fluids.
The police purchased the bus in 1997 and took six months to install all of the needed equipment and repaint the bus into the standard police markings. The project took about $20,000 to complete, which came from a law enforcement block grant. These grants are provided by the federal government to municipalities to use for anything affecting police work.
The bus was manufactured in 1978 by AM General for the Memphis Area Transit Authority, where it enjoyed more than a decade of revenue service. MATA then sold the bus under a program that has given other law enforcement agencies, such as the Memphis police and Shelby County Sherrif, busses to be converted for further use. Although AM General no longer makes buses, they do produce the Hummer military and consumer vehicle underneath the parent company LTV.
Can anyone explain why a major transit property who is currently experiencing record ridership which is filling the coffers with record amounts of cash doing recycling 15 & 16 year old buses? Money is pissed away taking buses which are slated to be scrapped and preparing them to return to service. Are the heads of DOB casualties of too much drug use in the 60's & 70's or are they just clueless? Have Moe, Larry & Curley been resurrected from the dead and returned to head the DOB? Are any other transit properties in North America this idiotic? The MTA-Going Nowhere.
There are lots of properties out there that do idiotic things. PAT in Pittsburgh for instance spent thousands on rehabbing a coach several years ago only to scrap it a few months later due to a clerical error on the paperwork. Nobody even questioned why the bus was being towed out for scrap while other older buses that were dead just sat.
Many times they overhaul the engines and then scrap the bus a few months later with the good engine and keep the old engines that need overhauled.
I just think it's just to many people involved with nobody knowing what the other people are doing that cause problems like this.
RDChilds
LI Bus is run by morons. They should replace those horrible Cummins L10G engines in Orions numbered 100-245 and 270-287, with the DD Series 50G used in buses numbered 288 and higher.
Maybe they can buy 10 more engines to replace the Cummins' in FP 9140-9149. BTW: I lamented on the day of Hoboken Festival and the Transit Museum Bus Fest about 9149 having diesel fumes inside the bus. I haven't seen that bus since!
Um, I like those buses the way they are. I hear they're fast and I know they sound good.
Anything made by Cummins is crap. Most people in the bus industry know that.
Don't get angry, I'm just stating an opinion:
It could be because since ridership is at record levels, they don't have enough operating buses at certain depots to keep up with demand. Also, they may be trying to save the millions they do get and use them for payroll and non-bus related purchases. Also, everyone is awaiting the arrival of the Orion-Hybrid buses to ease the load on the older buses.
Also, the attitude of corporate America is give to the rich, fuck the poor. Some of it is for good reason. I don't know what happens in Queens, but in our lower income areas, the drivers themselves only want to take an RTS because the people destroy them. The NYCTA DOB is probably punishing the people of Queens, justly or unjustly, just because of the low income stereotype. Why send out decent buses when you can send out (s)crap to these areas? The drivers and TA employees are being unfairly punished for the actions of a few and for the ignorant stereotype of a corporate entity. But, hey that's how the world works, I'm not even 16 yet and I know this.
Eventually, things will smooth out a bit and all the moves will make as much sense as you can expect for any TA decision to make. Hopefully, for the people of Queens' sake, there will be no more "Lazarus Buses" at JAM. But, everyone here knows that they are doing this on purpose, and we all know why. It's a sad world when demographics play into bus movements.
(Also, everyone is awaiting the arrival of the Orion-Hybrid buses to ease the load on the older buses.)
I tend to be a cynic, but here is a non-cynical explanation that makes sense. The public wants to get rid of diesel buses, but many of the alternatives are not ready for prime time, or at least not in the numbers the TA requires. Until hybrids, fuel cells, and gas buses are available in mass-produced quantities at mass produced prices, the TA will have to run diesels -- but the public doesn't want any more bought. Thus, the TA plans to keep the old ones running -- rehabs don't need public approval, purchases do.
[Until hybrids, fuel cells, and gas buses are available in mass-produced quantities at mass produced prices, the TA will have to run diesels]
In that case, why not retrofit these older buses with the newer "clean-diesel" Series 50 in the meantime, or would that be cost-prohibitive?
On another, lighter note, is there anyone here who has seen an image of the new Orion VII HEV and is willing to comment on it?
>>>In that case, why not retrofit these older buses with the newer "clean-diesel" Series 50 in the meantime, or would that be cost-prohibitive?<<<
They don't plan on keeping them that long. They're only retrofitting the 1993 RTS buses with Series 50 engines. Putting one in a bus like 3033 wouldn't help much since it'll be pulled from service soon anyway.
[In that case, why not retrofit these older buses with the newer "clean-diesel" Series 50 in the meantime, or would that be
cost-prohibitive?]
I believe the TA is replacing the 6V92TA with the DD50 on the 8000- to 8500-series RTS coaches (1990-1993) and the first batch of Orion V coaches (101-316).
If you enter the Port Authority at any given Rush Hour now, you are guarateed to see one of the new glistening new MCI D4000 Cruisers coming through there, but according to NJT's you'd think you'd be seeing one coming up on the 139 or the 137. SIKE!!!!!!
The first batch of buses have been showing up on the 190s and the 320 lines lately. What is this, the Eagles was suppose to be going fisrt. Could it be for once that Howell is finally getting jerked (I hope!).
From what I'm seeing this means that Wayne, Market Street and Meadowlands have begun receiving thier new Cruisers while, yes, the old MC-9As from these garages have been sent down to Howell for the Eagles replacement (HA HA HA HA HA HA HA, YES!!).
Eagles days are really numbered now.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
As great as it is to see Howell getting hosed (though, I always thought the CNG cruisers were technically replacing the Eagles at Howell), this doesn't seem to bode well for South Jersey. Since Newton Av is the other garage with Eagles, I guess that means they're going to be getting some more North Jersey MC-9A junk.
KINDA the 190 SECAUCUS route has the new buses but they only go to secaucus. Maybe this is because of the obvious the garage is right next to there town and in the morning and evening rush the secaucus cul de sac is its own route. No new buses in paterson clifton and passaic yet. I hope they start soon
Another new Orion LF to DC...saw it outside the Niskyauna Fire House in Schenectady - with a Georgia dealer plate!
i have seen here on the web that RIPTA gets the NYC RTS buses. Surely the same could be done to Green,Triboro and Jamaica lines. Send the RTS buses that the TA doesnt want to those lines (espcially Triboro). This way, these lines have updated buses, new paint jobs and can run replacing older RTS buses that they have. Why hasnt someone come up with this? I mean, LI bus for awahile had RTS buses and the old BLITZ buses, surely GReen, Triboro and Jamaica could get them as well.
Older second-hand RTS's would probably be more reliable than our Orion V CNG's with that crummy Cummins L10G engine.
But of course, we have to have a fleet that is 100% CNG by 2002, even though we're short buses, new or used diesel buses are totally out of the question.
Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket!
I'd like to see the old buses sold to the private van crowd.
Just a lazy Sunday afternoon, I took the Blue Line to Airport MBTA station to ride the CT3.
Massport used to have a huge RTS fleet, mostly 40'X102" buses. By 1995 or so, they retired the RTSs, and now their fleet is entirely Neoplan AN440 (I'm not sure what type of engine they use, but it is CNG powered, so I think they use either a DDEC Series 50G or a Cummins M11E or L8C engine - they take off with a throaty roar.). I like these buses...I think Massport made a great purchase. They're numbered CNG500-CNG530, although I think there are more. (Hertz now has a fleet of Gillig H2000LF low floor buses, but I did see a lone Gillig Phantom 40' bus. Avis still has the 35' RTSs and National and Budget use Eldorados and Bluebird Q-Buses, respectively.)
Well, around 4:35, the CT3 came around. It was NovaBus RTS 0272 from the Albany garage, and it pulled into Terminal A before descending into the Ted Williams Tunnel. After swinging by the Cabot garage and the World Trade Center, 0272 arrived at Andrew.
It's not a bad ride, but I think it works better if you don't need to go straight downtown (to Boston) and fight the Blue Line passengers.
Are Massport's Neoplans new buses? If so, I commend them on this purchase. How do they look? Can you post any pics?
For a long time, I was fooled into thinking that 'H2000LF' was a technical manufacturer's designation for the Gillig low floor. I'm 98% sure that it's just Hertz's own concoction to celebrate the easy access these buses afford to luggage-laden passengers. H for Hertz, 2000 for the year they were introduced, and LF for low floor. Those buses are Gillig Advantage Airporters. I hate Gillig Advantages, but I admit that this is a pretty good use for them. Too bad those wide, pantograph RTS-esque doors are not seen on transit models. I think Hertz purchased a large number of 40 foot Phantoms right before the low floors. These are nice buses which I always enjoy riding.
What's the deal with the Ted Williams Tunnel? I've been looking at it on maps for years and read about its restrictions. As I have never been to Boston, I have not seen it in operation first-hand. Can anyone describe the vehicle restrictions for the tunnel?
Thank you,
Neil
[Are Massport's Neoplans new buses? If so, I commend them on this purchase. How do they look? Can you post any pics?]
The Massport web site has a nice picture of the new Neoplan fleet with the Boston skyline in the background. It's an awesome picture:
http://www.massport.com/logan/img_skyline.html
Saw on Ch 9 news at 10pm that an unidentified man had died. What is not known yet is if he had fallen and injured himself or was hit by a B61 Orion #581.
Early article in the Times says it was a B68 and that the driver felt a bump but didn't know that he hit anybody.
I took advantage of the day off due to the Martin Luther King Day holiday to take a ride on Brockton's BAT and then to Providence to check out activity at RIPTA.
Brockton's BAT buses arrive and depart from the fairly new (opened in 1999 I believe) City Centre station, which has a waiting area with an information booth where schedues, passes,etc are available, as well as restrooms, a convenience store, donut shop and sub shop inside. Took #9106 (1991 TMC RTS 40 foot) on an outbound Rte.4 (Westgate Mall via Pleasant St). At the mall, I caught the inbound 4A bus (City Centre via N.Warren) the bus # being 9204, a 1992 TMC RTS 35 foot model.Back at City Centre, I saw several 91xx and 92 xx buses,and a couple of 96 xx buses (9602 and 9606, both 1996 RTS 35 foot) The 91xx I believe are all 40 footers, at leats the 91's I saw today.
On to Providence, I caught bus 9209, a 1992 TMC RTS 40 foot wrap bus on an outbound 99 (Pawtucket). The trip took a few extra minutes longer than scheduled, as the driver stopped to drop off a few passengers, and followed them off and went into a pizza shop, and almost 10 minutes later returned with his lunch to go.He apologized to the few remaining passengers aboard, saying if he had known it was going to have taken that long he wouldn't have stopped there. In Pawtucket, I caught 8810, a 1988 Neoplan 40 foot on an inbound 99 back to Providence. Exterior of the bus looked somewaht beat, interior looked much better than the outside.
After returning to downtown Providence, I made my way over to the RIPTA garage and yard on Elmwood Ave. Saw several of the ex-NYCTA buses parked off to the left of the yard along the fence with snow plowed alongside them. A few Neoplans, a Volvo and one of their RTS in this same row. Saw 6 Volvos parked in the yard off to the side of the wash bay garage building in that yard, one of them with the headlights on. Don't know if there were any more of them around, as the main garage across the street had all the bay doors closed, thus I couldn't get a peek inside. Also saw a 30 foot RTS in the line waiting to go through the wash bay, couldn't get a number off that bus. I did not see any ex-NYCTA RTS or Volvos in service while I was in Providence today. Does anyone know how many NYCTA RIPTA got?
What I did notice is that RIPTA has at least 2 different color schemes.The Neoplans, Volvos, and the 92xx RTS have the white with blue and gold stripe.The 98xx RTS have white with several greenish stripes. Curious as to what colors the ex-NYCTA buses will be painted.
Mark Watson
The trip took a few extra minutes longer than scheduled, as the driver stopped to drop off a few passengers, and followed them off and went into a pizza shop, and almost 10 minutes later returned with his lunch to go.
That's why you need a car in RI :).
The ex-NYCT I caught in RIPTA livery had the new paint scheme, the blue-green stripes you saw on the 98xxs. A lot of the 90xx RTSs have been repainted in that scheme. Some of the Neoplans and Volvos were also repainted in the new colors and given round LED taillights, although I haven't seen them since November; I've also only seen 90xxs in the old blue & gold. They seem to be low-numbered 90xxs, so my guess is that they were repainted before the new graphics were chosen.
Did you get the numbers off the NYCT buses in the yard? It would be interesting to see if any "disappeared" and are going to resurface in surface, or if any more have turned up.
Does anyone know where I can find a current bus roster for RIPTA?
I didn't enter the RIPTA property, so I didn't get any numbers off the ex-NYCT buses. I just rode around and looked in from the street.
I didn't see any Neoplans or Volvos in the new paint scheme in the yard or on the street. The Neoplans and Volvos in the old colors also still have the old RIPTA logo, while the new paint jobs have the new logo.
Mark Watson
[The 91xx I believe are all 40 footers, at leats the 91's I saw today.]
Yes, they are. 9101-9111 replaced the 1978 RTS-1 coaches (7701-7715). 9201-9218 (along with the 1996 Novas) replaced the 7801-7834 series 1979 RTS-3 buses.
BAT keeps their buses in almost pristine condition, putting the MBTA RTSs to shame; I have never seen a dirty BAT bus in its runs between Ashmont and Brockton, which could explain why the 77xx and 78xx slopeback buses stayed in such good shape.
If I'm not mistaken, the 77xx and 78xx buses had Detroit Diesel 8V71 engines, much like the ones they used on the MBTA Flxible 71xx and AM General 90xx, 92xx and 93xx buses; then with the new BAT orders in 1991 and 1992 they has 6V92TAs installed; and finally with the 1995-1996 order they switched to the Series 50 engine.
The 77xx coaches had the 8V71; the 78xx coaches had the 6V71.
BTW, what are the numbers for the newer BAT buses?
ctrabs74> BTW, what are the numbers for the newer BAT buses?
Orion5bjc> The 91XX (40ft) and 92XX (35ft) BAT buses were delivered in 1991 (I think they were 9101-9111 to 9201-9220), and the 95XX (40ft) and 96XX (35ft) buses were delivered in 1996 (9501-9520 to 9601-9620?)
I haven't gotten down to Brockton yet, so I don't know the fleet numbers cold. I know the 40ft buses are used for the Route 12 Brockton-Ashmont, so they must use the 35ft buses for routes within Brockton.
When I was down there this past Monday, I rode 9106, which was on the Route 4 (Westgate Mall via Pleasant St). Several years ago I rode that route and that too also had a 40 foot RTS on it, and had standdes on it that day. Must be a busy route, thus the 91xx's get assigned on that route as well as the Route 12.
Mark Watson
Yes, another Mission Monday!
The day started with a Metroliner ride to Baltimore Union Station, now in thinking that since Baltimore is a decent sized city that Union Station would be huge, SIKE, this station is like the 125th Street Metro North Station. In any case, after arriving in Baltimore, I went downstairs and boarded the Light Rail to E. Baltimore Street, and there the fun began.
After discharging at E. Baltimore Street, I was greeted by a host of Baltimore MTA equipment (NABI Model 416, NABI Model 436, Flxible METROs). After blowing a roll of film in this one spot, I was going to board the subway, but then a load sound errupted from one block away. It was Baltimore MTA's RARE Flxible Metro-E (#9522) powered by a Detroit Diesel Series 60 Engine with a Allison Transmission. WOW! The speed on this thing was amazing, I alighted the bus at E. Baltimore & President Street (A 8 block ride) and snaped some photos of the bus before the light changed. Then I walked on block back to Gay Street where a host of NABI buses were flowing. After that, I walked back to President street and boarded the METRO (Subway) and headed off to Upper Balitmore.
I detrained at Rogers Avenue and headed downstairs for a bus ride. I boarded the Route 51 (Flxible Metro-C #9248 Powered by a Tubrocharged Detroit Diesel 6L71 Engine, At Idle this bus sounded like a GMC Old Look). I rode the Route 51 to B'more MTA's largest bus facility, the Bush Division. There I was given a tour of the Annex (which had the new 00 Series NABI, Some accident buses, 1 WMATA GMC RTS, 2 B'more GMC New Looks, and a Greyhound Senicruiser), the Garage itself (mostly Flxibles with a few straggling NABIs), and the body shop.
After the tour, I boarded the Route 11 bus back into Downtown (NABI Model 416 #9818). I alighted at E. B'more St & Howard Street and walked up to Lexington Market wherein I had to by more film, I depleted my Digital Camera (87 Images) and regular film (2 24 Exposures) within my first 2 hours there! After the purchase at Lexington Market, I walked over to Howard Street & Fayette Street where I was greeted by another host of Flxibles and NABIs, blew another roll there alone!
After the standing there (I took a quick lunch) and boared the light rail for Camden Yards, after detraining at Camden Yards, I reboarded the light rail and headed for Convention Center. Detrained there, shot a few buses going by and a few light rail cars, reboarded the light rail and headed back for East B'more Street. There I boarded at NABI Model 436 Articulated (#9503) and headed for City Hall wherein I met up with a friend of mines (Adam Paul of Baltimore Transit Archives, Check out his site), who is also a bus operator on the 150 line). There I boarded his bus for a nice express ride on a NABI Model 416 #9957. WOW! These buses can move!
After the 150 ride to Long Gate Park & Ride and back to downtown, I rode in with him on his deadhead back to the Bush Division. There I shot off some more shots but a night of course. After the last blitz of pics at Bush, I headed back for Union Station and boarded my Amtrak Metroliner back up north (How depressing after that day!).
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
What happened to this bus? It seems like the lid was bashed in a little bit and the headlights were a little loose. At least, it appeared this way in it's picture on the front of the schedule for the september 3 edition of the route 14 schedule.
I hadn't heard anything about 5137. It's odd that a bus assigned to Frontier would be used on a City Division schedule, though. I can check on the schedule cover when I get home tonight.
Well, I'm not sure about the exact number, it may be 5173, but I know the first part of the number was 51.
actually, the number is 5173. Do you know what happened to that one?
No, I don't. It might have been a minor fender bender or something.
That's typical SEPTA for ya.
have the new artic arrive at the 126 st. depot
no
The only two articulated's currently in service at 126th Street Depot are 5406 & 5407. Both are used exclusively on the M15 line. The articulateds passed a major test last week when 5406 was succesfully hoisted on one of the three lifts installed for servicing them. Previous tests of the lifts had failed when it was discovered that the lifts would not hoist the bus high enough for proper maintenance to be performed. Apparently modifications were made and now the lifts are working properly. It is unclear at this time when exactly 126 will begin taking delivery of it's new articulateds. Some people have said it won't be until the Fall other's have said it will be sooner. There was a rumor going around that New Flyer Industries who manufactures the buses was experiencing financial difficulty and might have to file for bankruptcy. I have been unable to confirm if this is true or not. Has anyone else heard this?
That would be a travesty if New Flyer went out of business. That would mean Orion would be one of the remaining heavy duty bus manufacturers and they probably would have to come up with an articulated bus. I wonder why they haven't done so anyways?
If NF went belly up, their designs are assets that would be sold to satisfy creditors; therefore, Orion or anyone who buys the designs and tooling, can start building the existing design without needing to make any changes.
-Hank
Maybe MTA NYC Transit Would Change The Date Of 2001 D60HF's
From Fall 2001. When The 2001 D60HF's Plan's To Come.
To Late Spring 2001. I Hope This Will Happen.
If New Flyer Do Closed Down For Good Maybe MTA NYC Transit Maybe Go with NABI For New articulated Bus Order's.
Today, or yesterday 1/16, the last 1700s, buses 1740 and 1755 were scrapped. Decals, fareboxes and radios are already yanked out. These were the final survivors. No more 1700s at Jamaica depot. As far as I know only QV and Hudson Pier have them all though I have not seen any from Q.V. in several weeks now either. So now maybe we can determine who won the bet, if anybody.
BIG AL
That's right, 2640 just arrived in. With the latest paint job on her at that!! It's not a new paint job, but has the white pork chop panels and newest logos. This bus clearly was never scrapped, even though Mark's roster shows it as scrapped in Crosstown's storage yard. I got on it and everything is intact. So now we just recently scrapped some 1985 & 1986s and in return we're getting in 1982s! I'm totally speachless over this latest move.
BIG AL
I rode this bus on the Q17 before like 3 years ago. It's great to see a 2600 make a return especially to Jamaica-LMAO! BIG AL, is there any way I can get inside Jamaica Depot to see these buses-lol?
Q17#2640Gary
Who's next for Jamaica-a 1200, 1300, 1400, 1500, 1600, 1700, 2200, 2300, 2400, 2500 or a FISHBOWL-LOL?
Q17#XXXXGary
1230 was the best bus I ever drove. 3220 with a new engine (the week before it was scrapped) was second :-)
Drove a few 2600's out of Manhattanville back in '95... "eh"!
You know me... any 8000-8567 is what I prefer nowadays.
Gary, I'll be back Monday, maybe I'll see you then.
Al, has QV received or scrapped anything lately? I'd love to see 4198 roll out on a flatbed :-)
ME 2!!! What a dog that bus is. Cool-hope to see you then. BTW I was on your run a few days ago-4150 was kicking rear down the Pike.
Had 3970 and 8386 today on the Q46-both pretty good buses. Most of the 8300s kick rear at QV-especially 8384. 8355 is a DOG!!! LOL!
Q46#8384Gary
Actually, Queens Village BO, I was hoping you could tell us what has been going on in Q.V. I really don't know anything about what goes on over there other than what I see being operated on the road.
BIG AL
Big Al, I'd love to help out, and would if I could, however I've been on vacation since January 02, and wont return until January 22. I'll see what's going on when I get back!
QV
I started my travels early this morning. Waited at Queens Center Mall for 5502 on the Q60. Talking system has been fixed along with the destination sign but had an error or 2 in it and it was working n and off from what my friend told me. Here are 3 errors I found:
1. When opening the rear doors ONLY-the bus automatically says Welcome Aboard Green Bus Lines Q60 Destination South Jamaica.
2. 108 St 71st-Ave Continental Ave Connections to the 8th Avenue Subway-Q23, Q65 and Q65A. Q65 runs along 164 St-nowhere near Queens Blvd. Q65A yes-runs via Jewel Ave.
3. Union Tpke-connections to the Q37. ONLY THE Q37? What about the Q46 and Q74? What are they, chop suey?
While on 5502- I saw from Jamaica Depot-good ol 1755 on the X64-the ONLY 1982 seen today along with 9259, 9264, 9268, 9261, 4873 and 4880 all doing Express Service. After I got off 5502, I saw 4876 coming. I decided to ride on this bus into Manhattan. This bus was so slow-especially on the LIE-Only time it was picking up speed was on downhill approaches. 1755 was so much better than her.
Then I got back to Queens to meet a friend of mine on the E Train and got to Kew Gardens to ride on 4150 on the Q46. This bus made 4876 look like a 1979 Bus. 4150 was flying up Union Tpke. On the way home, I got on 4906 which the driver was doing about 10 mph all the way to Queens Blvd-riding on 3972's rear end-picking up passengers STILL despite being on 3972's rear end. Got to Queens Blvd and decided to get on Q60. 1148 was a bit crowded so I decided to let it go. Got 632 2 minutes later. Despite the narrow aisles-this bus had some giddy-up on her. My day ended on 360 on the Q104-Stripped of her full wrap.
Info about Jamaica Depot was told to me while riding 4876 this morning-see my next post.
Q60#632Gary
Q46#4150Gary
X64#1755Gary
Q104#360Gary
>>>I saw from Jamaica Depot-good ol 1755 on the X64-the ONLY 1982 seen today<<<
I have never seen or heard of a bus that spent it's last day in full paint and decals in service. I guess someone else has some affection for old 1755 as well. I hope he enjoyed her.
Yep, today was 1755's last day of service. She was scrapped and totally stripped of everything when I pulled my bus in today at 9:45pm
1740 was scrapped also. Could 1826 be the winner of the "Last 1982 Coach in Service" Contest?
BIG AL
1751 still does spotty local service on the Q46. She's left too. IDK wasup with 1767, 1773 or 1852. Maybe QV BO knows. So now there are 2: 1751 and 1826. Who will survive?
Q46#1751Gary
PS 2640 DOES NOT COUNT!!! LOL! :)
I heard today that 1747 was on the Q17 last night and 1752 was on the Q85-Friday night. 1844 I heard was retired and shipped out to CP Storage along with 3573 and 3575. ALSO 3822 is STILL IN THE DEPOT-possibly awaiting repairs? I'd like to swing by Jamaica depot 1 of these days to see what exactly is going on. Wassup with 3033 and 4003? BTW: I had a weird dream las night: ALL GMC Buses from 1986 and back were on the Q17. Not 1 Nova was there. I was waiting for the Q17 to go to Flushing-I missed 1740 and 1755-darn. What comes right behind her? FISHBOWL 6969! With a farebox in place and brought back from the dead. It looked like it went through a war but they said they had to do something. I asked the driver what's this? He said we need service here-so today's GMC Day on the Q17. Not 1 Nova or TMC will be here. And this fishbowl was the only fishbowl to be in service. What was told in my dream was that PA55 Grumman and 7339 were gonna come back tomorrow to Jamaica Depot. Then met my friend in Flushing which was waiting to meet me in front of 1755-he asked what I got to get there. I said wait till what u see what comes around the corner-there she was-6969. Then I woke up puzzled.
What will Jamaica get next?
Q17#1755Gary
See, I know what's going on now. They're turning JAM into a rolling museum. See, they have an old 1982 bus, 2640, an old 1983 bus, 3033, they have an old 1985 bus, 4003. See, I bet they pull a 3400 out of storage, bring back 1385, and then for the piece de resistance, they bring out 7535 from Maspeth and 2151 from Castleton!
I don't believe 1747 & 1752 are still around anymore but I'll try to verify what happened to them sometime before this week is out.
BIG AL
i have gotten word from " people not in the loop " the scoop explaining the current movement of buses into jamaica depot... the depot is to be turned into the home of the mta's museum bus fleet... all regular revenue buses will be transferrred within the next 2 weeks to a depot in tottenville, which is still in the planning stages... to avoid a lot of non revenue mileage going from queens to staten island, the department of buses will announce today a special super express bus that runs from jamaica depot non stop to tottenville, with an estimated running time of two and a half hours... the reason for this change is to push up property values is tottenville, where it is hoped that many former jamaica depot drivers will relocate in an effort to get to see more of their families once they begin to turn out inn tottenville...
From the S.I. Advance.
Sorry - forgot link in first post.
From the S.I. Advance-
http://www.silive.com/news/advance/index.ssf?0117buses17.html
Appartently thoroughly disgusted with what DOB is doing to them, Jamaica Depot (as I am typing this) is moving buses 2640, 3033, 3909 and 4003 to South Brooklyn Railway Yard located at 39th and 2nd in Brooklyn. As I was driving along Merrick Blvd., I spotted these beauties pulling out of the depot. They were smoking so much, I needed a gas mask. Ironically, they were being led by 1997 Nova 9250 which will serve as the taxi back to the depot for the 4 operators.
What is happening in Queens' smallest depot is ridiculous. They have totally gotten screwed out of getting their full compliment of express Novas, and thus far the Department of Buses has failed to replace the 4 or 5 local 1985 and 1986 RTS that were recently scrapped. How do you replace a scrapped bus with a another scrapped bus?? Buses 4119, 4139, 4353 and 4355 were allegedly replaced by the four winners that should be parked at the bottom of the East River. And just for the record, I spotted 4879 and 4880 both in express service. Meanwhile, the buses slated to head to JAM (9260, 9262-9263, 9265-9267 and 9269) are still running out of Ulmer Park. Complete BS!!!!!!!!!
Mark
Well, that was stupid. Some of them just got there. Are you sure that's where they were headed? Perhaps they were headed to crosstown to get new paint jobs.
If they are really headed for the Brooklyn Rail Yard, well all I can say is that was the stupidest fiasco I've ever read about on this board. How do you send four stored buses to to JAM to sit out of service, then send them to back into storage?!
Maybe JAM didn't want them sitting in the depot and they will see service anyway. I can't imagine why they would put a farebox and radio in 2640, only to take it out the next day!
All, I can say is that was a waste of money and man hours.
The DOB will probably have them towed back or something.
So what's next? 1283 and PA 1446? a Grumman Flx 870? Who knows? The adventure here is tuning here to find out from Big Al and Q5 Merrick.
I do feel sorry for you guys. As much as its fun to say "Cool, a 1982 RTS bus is rolling again" and "2640 is in service again - allright", it sucks for the people at Jamaica Depot who have gotten buses that would take weeks to fix - when they need the buses in service right now. And when better buses are out of service at Edgewater. Geez - 4191 looked damn good when she ran out of Stengel - and if you're gonna get scrapped buses - PA 1815 is available in Edgewater (I think). And why trash the 1700's and 1800's in house? 1740 and 1755 ran pretty well. And all you keep getting is junk.
To Al and everyone else there at Jamaica - I do hope things work out for you guys.
flx7595 (if it was still in one piece, it too would be sent to Jamaica).
Looks like it did. I guess the backlash was so strong they had to get rid of them. 2640 must have been the last straw. They'll just throw some "modern" (1985-86) garbage to the depot and tell them, "don't say we never did nothin' for you."
Saw 9267 tonight on X28. Looked really good too. Jamaica needs her and the rest of them BADLY!!!
X64#9267Gary
PS RIP to 1755! It's really funny, yesterday she was moving down Queens Blvd towards Manhattan and the VERY next day-she has her decals stripped and she awaits her burial-right next to 1746.
Spotted a convoy of 3800s headed toward Staten Island yesterday. Looks like they are finally being taken out of service. So, for you Jamaica fans, those extra 9200 express coaches will not be headed you way anytime soon. Once UP gets their extra MCI's in with that extra 70 shipment, then they will probably finally be shipped out.
Shaun
Another note on the 4800's out of JAM-Saw 4878 on the Q42 heading towards Parsons/Archer on Weds.I thought these buses were going to be strictly for the 63 and 64.If thats the case you might as well put the 9200's on the 17.
As you all know by now, 2640,3033,3909 & 4003 got the boot from Jamaica depot. The remaining scrapped 1700s left also. In my opinion, I don't believe Jamaica depot ever planned on putting these wrecks on wheels in service. They made sure to say everything was wrong with these buses to get rid of them. Obviously, somebody in the main office is trying to screw, most likely management, in Jamaica and Jamaica is kicking it right back to them. The question is, what will they try to send us next? When the 4800s came in, they were prepped for service in one day, but these old local buses just mainly sat on the defect lines doing nothing, except of 3033 which was taken apart somewhat and deemed unfit to enter service. Will we ever get the balance of the 9200s from U.P.? Only time will tell. I would like to make a side note however, that today I walked through the garage about 6pm just looking to see what was there, not in service for the rush hour. The 3800s were sitting in the yard and 1 or 2 4800s were sitting in the "blue room" waiting to be cleaned. Throughout the day, all I see running on the Q42 is nothing but 4800s and 3800s. And I also see 4800s running on the Q17 also. I appears most of the runs on the express lines are covered by the Novas anyway, so I really don't know if we even need the rest of the Novas from Ulmer Park. I'm sure alot of the 4800s will wind up just being spare buses in case something bad happens to the Novas like 9072, but in the mean time , Jamaica still needs local buses, and will just continue using the 3800s, 3967 and a couple of the 4800s.
BIG AL
You could say those buses were like waking up and finding a horses head in your bed, it's some type of warning. Maybe it's over, maybe they were just preparing you all for what's next.
My car, a 1989 Nissan Maxima with 146,000 miles on it has a cronic oil leak. Today I got so fed up with looking at oil stains on the ground, that I pulled out the radio, removed the plates and scraped off all the emblems. I then put the car in the street. Next, I went to the local junk yard where I purchased a scrapped 1982 Maxima with 216,000 miles on the odometer and the original Datsun emblems still on the body. I put 4 used tires and an old battery in the car and drove it home. It is now sitting in my driveway, where I'm waiting for a mechanic to come by and certify it as being too unsafe to ever be legally driven on the streets of New York...
BIG AL
When Sanitation removes the car, they'll simply trace the VIN, and you'll have to pay a fine.
What was the point of the 82 Maxima?
-Hank
What was the point of the 82 Maxima?
I'm guessing the VIN of the '82 Maxima is JN1HU11POCX002640
I'm glad 1 out of 3 people understood the real meaning of my post.
BIG AL
I still don't get it, unless you're following up on something I didn't previously read. What's the significance of the last 4 digits of the VIN?
-Hank
They represented bus 2640, the old, should have been scrapped already bus that seems to be like Morris the Cat and has 9 lives.
Ok guys. I'm sorry I threw so many people into a tizzy about this. That whole story I wrote about the car was just humorous fiction. I was really making up a story that was mirroring what T/A has been doing regarding Jamaica depot. I can't believe how many of you guys took me seriously. I assumed everybody's been reading the past posts the last few weeks about the old buses being sent over to Jamaica depot to replace buses that were newer, and I basically copied that story. My mistake was that I didn't realize that apparently not everybody's been reading those posts. I would never abandon a car in the street. I would just part it out as a last resort. One other note however. The police can not always trace a car back by it's vin #. Cars that have not been registered for over 2 years are deleted from the DMV computer. This is because alot of cars go out of state and the records are no longer needed. (this is a true story) My brother lost the title to a car he had with a blown motor. He had it sitting in his back yard for about 5 years, unregistered. When he asked for a duplicate title to be sent to him so he could sell the car to a junk yard, the DMV could not send him one because there was no longer a record in the computer. They told him he had to get special paper, trace the vin# and send it to them in Albany, which sounded ridiculously hard. Anyway he did that, and finally got the title and got rid of the car. But that is why you see so many abandonded cars in the street. Because most have not been registered for a long time and there is no way for the police to trace them, so sanitation gets the sad duty of hauling them off.
BIG AL
Actually, I got the joke. It was pretty funny. At first though, I thought you had atually done this and said, what was the point of that?
BTW, is your real car a 1989 Maxima? I've never even seen any of those in NYC before.
Yes, one of my cars is a 1989 Nissan Maxima. Actually it is my wife's. And it does have a cronic oil leak. (part of my story was true). We are considering replacing it with a 2001 Toyota Camry within the next 2 months. And if the Camry doesn't work out, we'll replace that with a '76 Dodge Dart! (just kidding)
BIG AL
I beleive the '89 Maxima was the first of the rounded models that was built until '94. I see many of these in NYC some still in good condition.
Wayne
Big Al - I think NYC now fines people for abandoning cars on the street. Maybe the junk yard would've given you something for the '89 Maxima.
Wayne
Nah. The DOT will ask you to put the car in service, and offer you a 1979 Le Baron as another option if the 1982 Maxima won't go.
Very funny.
flx7595
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I was in Cleveland over the weekend for the first time in a couple years and noticed that they've got some Nova low-floors. Saw several on Euclid and was reminded of New York's 995 trial. The more I see these Nova low-floors the more I like them -- much more interesting looking than the NewFlyers. Wish the TA would order some. What's their issue with the one-piece windshield? This wouldn't have to be a problem anyway since the windshield could just as easily be two pieces of glass with a gasket down the middle. Cleveland's Flxible Metros are looking a little worn and wearing lots of tacky wraps and other visuals. They should clean up these handsome buses.
The Flxibles may be nice, but there is a problem with the Nova low-floors. First, they have no step-up floor in the rear section of the bus, so that passengers have to step up higher to reach the seats. Secondly, the two seats behind the big grey box behind the driver are inappropriate and, since I sat there before on TA's #995, it feels very awkward sitting there. Also, there is no ramp for wheelchairs as in the New Flyers or the Orion VIs. Last, but not least, they appear smaller than a standard transit bus; they look more like 30-foots than 40-foots from the outside. They look like toys!
If you wanna argue some more about them, e-mail me! (These experiences are from riding the TA's 995 from Hudson Depot.)
Not an argument but 995 did have wheelchair ramps in the front and back doors and I witness these both in use on the M14C/D when it operated out of Hudson Pier. I do agree with you about the seating arangement was quite strange. I liked the Detroit Diesel Series 40E used in this bus, lots of power and torque when you need it.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Nova LFS's have a way of converting their naysayers. When I first saw the LFS, I thought it was the most ridiculous design I had ever seen. I probably would have agreed with those of you who say it looks like a 'toy bus.' In fact, I disliked them so much that when Montréal was having problems with their LFS's, I celebrated.
Windsor, Ontario (the best bus system in metro Detroit) took delivery of five LFS's in 1998. I was with a group of friends when I first saw one of Transit Windsor's LFS's in person in downtown Detroit. My friend glared in awe "What kind of bus is that Neil? It's cool." I shook my head in disgust and told them "That's no -real- bus."
When I went to Cleveland in November 1999, the only bus route I really knew was the #6 Euclid. I was less than pleased to find that the buses on that route were almost entirely LFS's, RTA's 9901-9915. Reluctantly, I stepped aboard #9915.
I was a changed man.
The Nova LFS makes the best use of interior space of any low floor in North America. Its large and plentiful windows let natural light flood in. The passenger cabin is arranged in such a way that the entire interior feels open and free (polar opposite of the Gillig LF). And say what you will about the seating arrangement, but I really like it. What's the big deal about having the back seats stepped up? Not only do I like that feature, but I also like how some of the back seats face the rear. Very European; very cool. The front doors are WIDE, the back doors are WIDE. Roof-mounted a/c is standard. And how nice is it to have a BACK WINDOW? The only thing which I dislike mildly is the corner-mounted engine, and I also prefer the square whole-body windows of the older models as opposed to the rounded, individual windows of the newer models.
More conversion testimony: I know a driver here at University of Michigan transportation services. U of M tested an LFS a little while ago, and most of the drivers had planned on not liking them before even giving them a chance. The driver I know got to drive the LFS demo and he really liked it.
So many of you complain that today's buses are nothing more than boxes on wheels. This is true of every bus -except- the LFS (and the RTS-06 too, but let's not start that argument again.) Don't get me wrong. I like the New Flyer D40LF. The NABI 40LFW is good too. I'm even a supporter of the problematic Neoplan low floor. But the Nova LFS is far and away the most charismatic bus out there. It can turn the heads of even ignorant motorists and passers-by. Can most other buses do that? I think not.
On the topic of buses in Cleveland, what exactly is their vehicle numbering pattern?
It seems like for the most part, RTA uses straight year numbering, but I recall seeing some buses in the 3000's and 4000's. For the railcars, the Red Line heavy rail trains are in the 300's and the Blue Line/Green Line LRV's are in the 800's.
Also, for the record, Transit Windsor's newest low floors are Orion VI's. I tend to think that these are not too well-liked. After the New Looks, the LFS's are the best buses in their fleet. I can post Transit Windsor roster if anyone wants...
Thanks,
Neil
¡Qué viva el subjuntivo!
ALl the buses I saw, I think, were 9900s. I never got to ride 995 in NYC, but, based on what I've observed, I agree with your positive review on the Nova LF. I've seen them in Ottawa also where they have New Flyer low floors as well.
I SECOND THAT!
I loved 995. I got to ride it at least 5 times during it duration at the TA. Too bad it was only here to test the Detroit Diesel Series 40E-275 Horsepower Engine.
Be on the look out, I was notified that the NovaBUS RTS Low Floor Demo may be on its way up here, it's completed and at NovaBUS in New Mexico right now.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I Did Not Ever Ride A Nova LFS But I like the way the font looks But I know that it's Full Low Floor Bus But It Has 39 Seat's I Would Get A Chance To Ride One This Summer When I In Hamilton. Ontario.
I Know HSR Have About Over 25 Of These buses. HSR runs buses in Hamilton. Ontario. And The Best Thing about the LFS is the font headlights. The Headlights On The Font Looks Like The VW Bettle.
But I Did Not Get A Chance To Ride 995 Because I think it was running in Queens. But I Hope This Demo One Runs In Queens.
I, for one, am looking forward to seeing how the time-honored RTS profile and design will be revised and adapted to the low-floor bus concept. If done right, it could be quite successful.
I'm interested in seeing that too. Although i don't think the RTS low floor design would look as good as the standard floor design, i'm not sure whether the design would be very successful or as successful as the articulated design of GM (if you have never heard of this design, my point has been proven) Anyway, unless they have it as a full low floor bus, rather than bi level, I can't be sure how good it'll actually look.
You guys are forgetting something - the RTS was low floor before it was high floor! The three original prototypes, RTX, RTX-II, and Transbus (RTS-I) were all three-axle low floor buses that very closely resembled the RTS-II (the high-floor production version we all know). The RTXs were from 1968, the Transbus was 1975. My guess is, Nova's low-floor may have taken some cues from those prototypes.
I uploaded these two pics (sorry about the grayscales, but you can see the buses clearly):
http://members.aol.com/kctrucker/gmc_rtx.jpg
http://members.aol.com/kctrucker/gmc_transbus.jpg
They are GM factory pictures from Bob Redden's outstanding history portfolio "The GM Coach" which he made in the mid 80s, prior to GMC leaving the business in 1987
I never knew that there had been an RTS low floor. Also, i never even knew that they had low floors back then. GMC really thought of everything that most companies are just discovering today.
Actually, it was a standard floor body mounted onto axles with smaller diameter wheels, thus the floor height would be the same as the first step on a bus with large diameter wheels. I've seen this in the "Bus World Encyclopedia Of Buses". Why this idea was not used I'll never know.
I'm assuming this setup required M.A.N. type axles, a la the New Flyer LF...
"Anyway, unless they have it as a full low floor bus, rather than bi-level, I can't be sure how good it'll actually look."
The problem is, unless it is bi-level, or "stepped," a low-floor bus, regardless of model, cannot accommodate a much higher number of seats (44+) than a full "stepless" unit (32-36), or so the manufacturers claim.
The new low-floor RTS is supposed to have a 45-50 maximum seating capacity.
A low-floor RTS would be awesome as long as the styling doesn't go to pot. A great note; the Flxible Metro is still produced in China. Included is a low-floor model that retains the same basic shape, along with a double-decker version. How neat...if only these could pass emissions and be imported to the US. I'd love to ride around in a new Flxible Metro again.
Made in Hong Kong??? Those Chinese FLX's must suck!
I don't know; I have yet to ride one as I am not in Hong Kong that often. I'm just stoked that Flxible lives on in another part of our world....
Are you guys sure that Flxible METROs are still made in China? I know there are buses made there that bear the Flxible nameplate somehow, but someone once posted a picture of one of said buses to alt.binaries.picture.vehicles and while it was branded Flxible, it certainly was NOT a Metro.
If, though, Metros are still made halfway around the world, what's stopping US transit systems from buying them?
Also, on the note of overseas buses at US TA's, what ever happened to those 75 Breda buses NYCTA was supposed to get?
Thanks,
Neil
The bus has a long drawn-out name, but still looks basically like a Metro; I will try to find a pic ASAP.
I agree; US TAs need to buy these, or at least test them out. I mean, come on, if they can rebody a Dennis Dart and remarket it as a Thomas Built Bus, why not bring back an American icon that has been a proven transit design for the past 23 years....we just may be on to something here.
What's Nova doing making a low floor version of RTS? Would this be to replace the present Nova low floor which has its own distinctive look? What is the point of Nova having 2 different low floor models?
I prefer the looks of the RTS to that funky-looking LFS any day.
A choice maybe? Sorta like how the Classic was the way for GM to get business that it otherwise wouldn't have if it just offered the RTS. It seems like that way from what I have been reading.
You must mean Canadian business. Canada wouldn't by any RTS for whatever reason so GM made a horrendous update of the New Look with the face of a Classic and the body of a New Look. This monstrosity later evolved into the classics that roam around NYC.
I seriously doubt that any US TAs with classics wouldn't have patronized GM if they weren't offered. They just would've bought RTS buses.
[A choice maybe? Sorta like how the Classic was the way for GM to get business that it otherwise wouldn't have if it just offered the RTS.]
Actually, the closer analogy is to New Flyer. Even though they have been very successful with their low-floor model for over 10 years, this year they are also offering a new low-floor model, the Integra. I guess both New Flyer and Nova feel there are customers for low-floor buses that need to be able to choose from two distinct models of low-floor buses.
Actually, that's the Invero; the Integra is an Acura for people who want a choice in Honda Accord low-floors....LOL.
I LOVE the looks of the new Invero; it has a neat retro look that reminds me a lot of the Fishbowl. And it looks a LOT better than the D40LF hands down. If anyone has any info or comments on the Invero, I want to know what this bus is like. Also, I want to know which transit agencies are operating Inveros so I'll have a good excuse to visit their city in my travels....
So far, I believe there are only two orders for Inveros; 34 for Calgary and a couple dozen or so for Edmonton.
Other than that, other TA's are still opting for the D40LF.
I have mixed feelings about the Invero. It looks kind of cool, but I have only seen that one picture on NFI's own website. There really aren't many details or close-up pictures depicting the bus's features.
I will need to see more pictures before I can decide my opinion, but to be honest, I do not see the need for the addition of this bus and I do not think it will sell very well.
Neil
..."The NovaBUS LFS is the best low floor around!"
You never know; maybe they are just seeing how one model will sell alongside the other for future product conideration. After all, in 1977, when GM released the original RTS, it was offered alongside the Fishbowl. Same with the Grumman 870; when released in 1978, it was offered alongside the Flxible New Look.
Each model superseded the older one and became the companies' sole US offerings the following year; perhaps NFI may be looking into doing that, even though I seriously doubt it, what with the currently strong success of the Dxx LF series.
Then again, when Canada rejected the RTS, GM looked at the continued success of the still-in-production New Look there and decided to offer up the Fishbowl-based Classic as an alternative in both Canada and the US, so you never know....
[So far, I believe there are only two orders for Inveros; 34 for Calgary and a couple dozen or so for Edmonton.]
To repeat a post several months back, I'm pretty sure St. Catherines, Ontario, is the launch customer for the Invero (don't know where I got Integra!). Don't know how many they ordered, but they're supposed to get them in early 2001.
I saw the demo Invero from a distance when it visited Atlantic Diesel in Lodi, NJ, last year. I thought it was a really wierd looking bus, not much like anything else on the streets today. Unfortunately, I didn't get very close to get a better view of it. I recollect Trevor may have gotten some pictures of it; haven't had time to see if they are on TransiTalk, but suspect they are.
If you write to the mfg. rep. in US. You may be able to get the CD that has a lot of nice shots on it. I got one sent to me, probally because I subscribe to a couple of bus industry trade magazines. Sorry, don't have it any more as I gave it to our Maint. VP to look at.
Mr t__:^)
Sid,
From my recollection of the Invero, the bus I rode in Orlando at the 1999 APTA convention is it was pretty noisy inside as there was a slight problem with the a/c. But it was quite cool inside, considering the October heat of Orlando. The bus accelerated well and was fairly "tight". But the pavement had a lot to do with that, i am sure.
The unit in the convention center seemed slightly darker than the unit running outside. The bus had this "chameleon" effect, making it tricky to get normal shots.
The windows were large and the view from within excellent. The tail lights seemed like "eyes", giving a retro effect, reminding me of 1950's. From the front, it put me in mind of the new look Mack.From my last inquiry, no one had confirmed an order, but I suspect that may have changed.
Joe
I just checked out the Invero pictures on the New Flyer site - nice bus!
On the page for the D45S suburban, New Flyer states, "By 2000, the New Flyer model D45S will see revenue service in cities such as Houston, TX and New York, NY." Is this just outdated information, prior to MCI getting the contract? By "cities such as... New York, NY," are they just using NYC as an example of a city?
Supposedly, there is an order with NF for the D45S, but they have not been delivered yet. There were some demos over at Atlantic Detroit Diesel in Lodi. As I understand, there were interior components in the demos that were illegal in New York, and they are (still) waiting for a redesign.
Those suburban New Flyers, the New Flyer D45S "Vikings", are no more. The MTA has found out that they can not use them in any garage comfortably. So they were at Detroit Diesel in Lodi, New Jersey for a while but now are at New Flyer in Minnesota. According to recent sources that these three buses will most likely end up on the Houston Metro property in Texas.
Below is what's left of these three buses, some photos!
Enjoy!
Have a blessed Day!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Ahhh what could have been for the riders of Southeast Queens. Weren't these coaches also being considered by NYCDOT as possible replacements for the MCI Classics?.....thanks for the memories Trevor.
Are they up for sale? Man would that make a great RV conversion.
Yeah, by New Flyer!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Bah hah hah hah! Looks like we'll be adding 4804, 4805, and 4806 to 4700-4803. Oh well. It's funny that I take these buses for granted and these are quite exciting to you all. In downtown Houston, you can see lines of 20 and 30 of these parked along Preston St.
This is the future of transit bus design in the USA. Let's hope some major agencies place orders for it.
(Are you listening, New York?)
It seems like a nice bus, but I don't like the interior too much around the windows. Is the back suppose to be slanted inside like the RTS models? The interior back, that is.
I've seen them [Nova LFS]in Ottawa also where they have New Flyer low floors as well.
Except for the D60LF's, which are just starting to be delivered, Ottawa's other low floors are Orion VI's. I think that OC Transpo was really very pleased with the LFS, but provincial regulations mandated that they buy the Ontario-made Orion VI's. Too bad. Québec is LFS country.
Neil
Other cities in New York State that have the Nova LFS include Buffalo, and Albany. Syracuse has the Nova High Floor, Wide Door bus (about 30 of them) I forget what they are called. By the way, Orion Bus Industries is laying off about 300 workers here in Oriskany. Bummer to our economy in Utica! read about it in www.uticaod.com!
>>> Other cities in New York State that have the Nova LFS include Buffalo, and Albany. Syracuse has the Nova High Floor, Wide Door bus (about 30 of them) I forget what they are called. <<<
Centro in Syracuse has eighteen NovaBus wide front door RTS buses, fleet numbers 9760-9777. They are model T802WFD, and are powered with CNG engines. Interestingly, they were originally delivered as 560-577 (numbered on top of Centro's original CNG Orion V's) but were renumbered shortly after delivery.
BTW, since you are apparently in the Utica area, I saw that Utica Transit Authority has some new Orion V's. Do you know what fleet numbers they have? Also, does UTA still have Orion I buses in service?
Jim D.
In the summer of 1999 I saw Nova low floors in addition to New Flyer and Orion low floors in Ottawa showing their OC Transpo red and white colors. I have a picture of Nova low floor 9733. Have these buses been removed from service since then? And what about the 60ft low floors you mention? I've never seen such a thing. Are there pictures?
In the summer of 1999 I saw Nova low floors in addition to New Flyer and Orion low floors in Ottawa showing their OC Transpo red and white colors.
I can assure you that OC Transpo has no 40-foot New Flyer low floors. They do, however, have 82 New Flyer STANDARD floor buses which were delivered in two distinct batches in 1990 and 1992. The 9000's have strange-looking silver window sashes and narrow front doors. The 9200's have black window sashes and roof-mounted Sütrak air conditioning. The 9200 NFI's might just be my favorite OC Transpo buses after the New Looks.
20 Nova LFS's (9721-9740) were delivered in 1997 along with 20 Orion V's (9701-9720); the Orion VI order was for 140 units delivered in 1999.
I have a picture of Nova low floor 9733. Have these buses been removed from service since then?
No, of course not. These are great buses in my opinion, and I get the feeling that OC agrees with me. If OC had had their way, the Orion VI's probably would have been LFS's. Provincial trade regulations likely interfered, hence the Ontario-made Orions.
And what about the 60ft low floors you mention? I've never seen such a thing. Are there pictures?
The first order of D60LF's is model year 2001, so I would imagine that these are just starting to be accepted. I have not been to Ottawa since 1998, so I really do not know the status of their new bus orders.
OC Transpo: The Greatest All-Bus Transit System in North America.
Neil
Que vive le subjonctif!
Thanks for the correction. I misunderstood your earlier response and, now that you mention it, I guess the only low floors in Ottawa were Nova and Orion. The only other place I've seen Orion low floors are the Hybrids in NYC.
Well, I have to admit that I was a little impartial to the novas, but now that I think of it, these buses look like they were meant to be low floors more than any other bus, except maybe the Gillig Low Floor.
Hey, guys, get this:
Yesterday, there was a NABI articulated test bus marked only by a red-striped paint scheme and "RTD" on the front. I found it a Newark Penn Station while I rode the #108 line to Broad Street. After that, I spotted it on Ferry Street while I traveled on the #1 line to Exchange Place. Maybe...maybe...NABI is just one step closer to being awarded the articulated contract from NJ Transit by 2003, to replace those AWFUL foreign Volvo B-10M's. One step closer. Let's just roll the dice and hope it is so.
--CWalNYC )8^)
Sounds like that unit is heading to Denver. They just placed their NABI artics into service, from what I understand.
I just hope NJT will stick with the Luminator signs, but that's another story...
That NABI is now at my garage, so there will be digital images of that bus soon! I have to got to work in 3 hours, so lets hope it's still there, my depot master called me to tell so I can bring my camera!
WOOOHOOOO!!! NABI BABY!!!!
Trevor Logan
lets have a discussion on bump downs-----do diff properties have their
own way of doing one----or is their a standard way.
qustion: if an operators run is not bumpd can this operator bump someone
else ,or he remains on the run he pickd.
question:if 4 operators were forced to (b) garage due to (A) garage was closd at normal pick. if less seniorty operators are hiried and the origional 4 operators want to go back to (a) garage --does these
4 runs open to the bump down ,so seniority provails to all operators
in the (b) garage or the new operators go on the xboard and bid on the 4 runs ( that were held by the departing 4 back to (a) garage).
Well, it seems we've started quite an uproar on this little board? Calling us names though, it shall get you nowhere. We're doing what makes sense, money wise and demographic wise. You all could never even begin to grasp the stress we go through arranging these bus moves, wondering if stubborn depots like Jamaica will reject the movements as they did 2640, 3030, 3033, 3909, and 4003. Well, we're going to have to replace the locals that were scrapped by your overzealous maintenence department somehow. Here's the plan for Jamaica as of today...
Scenario 1:
Jamaica Depot in Queens, NY has rejected recommissioned buses 2640, 3030, 3033, 3909, and 4003 due to their inability to return to active service. As of now, they are all in storage. Beginning tomorrow, we shall move 2640, 3030, 3033, 3909, and 4003 to ENY CMF to be checked out by their mechanics for a more "unbiased" opinion. Also, 3009 3099, PA3282, and PA3299 will be sent to ENY and prepped for recommissioning. Monday, 3009, PA3282, and PA3299 will be sent to Yukon to be tested on the SI routes. If they pass they will be sent to Jamaica Depot in Queens. If they fail, they will be sent back to ENY, repaired and then sent to Jamaica Depot. Bus 3099 will be sent to Castleton to run on the SI express routes for a week, if it passes, it will be sent to JAM to do express service. If it fails, it will be sent to Casey Stengal Depot to do local service until all of their Orions return from repowering, then it will be sent to Jamaica Depot for express service.
As for 2640, 3030, 3033, 3909, and 4003, if they are found to be fit for service, they will be sent back to Jamaica Depot and placed into service. If they are not fit for service, they will be made so and sent into service at Jamaica Depot.
As for the Nova Express coaches, Jamaica will not be getting anymore in the foreseeable future. This is because we are purging Manhattan and Brooklyn of their 3800 series express coaches. Jamaica will send Quill their current batch of Nova express coaches, Quill will send their 3800 buses to the storage yards and Jamaica will recieve PA1757, PA1760, PA1761, PA1815, and PA1826 from storage and Hudson Pier Depot respectively. Also, in the near future, Jamaica Depot will recieve PA1751, PA1767, PA1773, and PA1852 from Queens Village Depot if they have not been scrapped or stored.
That is the plan for Jamaica at this time. As I type, this plan may be discarded in favor of a different but similar arrangement. Nothing is yet set in stone. As far as Jamaica Depot geting the worst buses, look at where you are. Queens. Buses are destroyed out there. We have to look out for our money. We can't send the best equipment to an area where it's being torn apart. We have to send equipment that is not attractive to regular patrons and vandals of Queens alike. We've known this for years, but recently, we've gotten an influx of complaints about vandalized equipment running around Queens. New equipment. TA suits are putting pressure upon us to do something about it. Scenario 1 is our plan of action. When patrons of Queens are willing to treat their buses as good as the people of SI and Manhattan do theirs, then we will talk about something new. As for now, when you reduce (scrapping 1985 and 1986 buses), you reuse and recycle. You can blame the patrons for the equipment we're sending you, not us. We don't magic marker the seats and slash the cushions. We just buy them. Think about that.
Department of Buses NYCTA/MaBSTOA
Damn! It seems I've ruined my plans for this little prank before they could get off the ground. Oh well.
Sigh, you were such a good handle too.
Yuo guys have the 5000's and the 9500's out there in JA. Do you know how long UP was waiting for the 5000's. they were still running 3600s and 3700s
Earlier this morning I've spotted the first of SEPTA's new New Flyer fleet, 5401 on the 17 route today. There is just one thing wrong with the bus, it's a LOW FLOOR. I think New Flyer's standard floor buses look cool, couldn't SEPTA order standard floor New Flyers? I have never been a fan of low floors for 3 reasons:
1) a low floor is less rigid
2) reduced seating capacity, and
3) the windows are assymetrical
plus you would need a wheelchair lift anyway so why bother.
I agree with you 100%. The reason for the increased interest in Low Floor buses is because the government pays a big portion of the cost of a low floor bus compared to high floors. I think the same applies to CNG and other alternative fueled buses, but I could be wrong on that. New Flyer high floor buses are really nice and too bad MTA did not purchase C40HF's like LACMTA and some C40LF's instead of a full low floor order. Hey! I won't complain because our neighbors next door in Connecticut have some attractive D40HF's on the I-BUS service. LOL.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
The feds pay for the same percentage of a low-floor bus as for a high-floor. The reason low-floors are getting more and more popular is simple. Transit agencies don't like maintaining wheelchair lifts and people in wheelchairs don't like using wheelchair lifts. Every agency knows that the low-floors hold fewer passengers and that they are probably going to be more vulnerable to frame and corrosion problems as they age, but it seems to be a sacrifice they are willing to make to replace lifts with simple ramps.
Also too they are learning that it's a easier bus for Senior Citizens to board, but not every agency is so Low Floor enthused, New Jersey Transit & Ride On (Montgomery County, MD) are two agencies off the top of my head that are not too cool on Low Floors.
Ride On operates two 1995 Orion VI CNG Low Floors and do not like them, that's why this recent order was Orion V CNG High Floors instead of the Orion VI like originally proposed.
New Jersey Transit has 4 1998 Orion VI Hybrid Electric Low Floors (Now NYC Transit #6350-6353) and they were not also pleased with low floors nor with the Hybrid Eletric, out of the four, they only used one for a short while. BAH!
Personally I love low floor buses (especially the Nova LFS and the Orion VI, I like the NFI 40LF too but not as much), they have a nice appeal and its a break from the average everyday high floor bus. I tend to lean towards liking new technologies (EXCEPT CNG, LOVE HYBRID). I think I may be one of the very few bus buffs around that favor newer buses over older buses.
LONG LIVE LOW FLOOR (teehee!)
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I agree with you. Although I understand that many bus buffs may miss their old "friends" new technology is always interesting.
I Like Low Floor Buses Better Than High Floor Buses Because.
1. It's Easer To Get On And Off The Bus Than High Floor Bus.
2. Boading A Weelchair Is Very Easy With A Drop Of A Ramp And It Cut's Weelchair Boading Time In Half Than On A High Floor Buses.
I know that SEPTA Is Getting New Flyer D40LF's This Year. But Instead
ordering Neoplan AN460 Buses Last Year. They Could Just Buyed New Flyer D60LF's instead. That Will Be A Good Idea.
It's funny you mention the Low Floor New Flyer D60LF Articulated. The MTA is looking at that bus as a possiblilty for Articulateds for the city. If they decide to buy those, OH MAN, IT'D BE AWESOME!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
No, I totally disagree, and here's why. By the time I graduate in 2004, the Neo's will be saying bye bye to the SEPTA fleet forever, making me and quite a few other drivers sad and disappointed. SEPTA equals Neoplan, not Flyer or any other buses out there. Getting the Neoplan artics was a great idea, preserving the Neoplan look in the city. However, I've always been interested in how the New Flyer artics actually have the floor height set up. Is there a high floor section in the middle before it goes down again?
On the NFI website there is good pic of the D60LF .
First of all, why get new low floor buses if they are not needed? We already used the NABIs to replace the RTSs and some of the older Neoplans. Also, most cities are going towards low floor buses, and it's a little sad that SEPTA, the official transit authority of Philadelphia, doesn't have any. That's basically why they are getting low floor buses, and i guess New Flyer has the best. Besides, I have ridden a low floor bus myself in Miami, and they are easier to board, and you don't trip over steps while boarding. Also, the low floor buses use ramps, not wheelchair lifts, which make it easier to board for the driver and the person himself.
When it snows, who is responsible for clearing bus stops of snow? The property owner where the bus stop is in front of, the city or town where it's in, or the bus department (MTA in my case?)
Well, thanks to an error in posting by a DOB employee, we've been exposed on this forum. He was going to post using this handle but accidentally used the old RTS_2150 handle we'd been using to monitor this place. Not for troublesome reasons mind you, just to observe how the community felt about us. We had no orders to do it. The DOB just wanted to see what was up. Eventually though, we got tired of getting dumped on, so we decided that we were going to expose ourselves, but keep the old handle as well. So much for that. Looks like the old RTS_2150 handle shall be retired.
As for all the background behind the handle, we have an employee from Houston so he knew all the right things to say and when to say them. We sometimes made up banter about RTS_2150s real life and you had a legitimate disguise. It's gone now.
Anyway, if you have any questions, field them to us.
Department of Buses MaBSTOA/TA
Ok, I have 3 questions for you, mr. Department Of Buses. Just to see if you are really legit, if you are, then I'm sure you wouldn't mind answering these simple three questions EVERYBODY who is a D.O.B. worker would know.
1)Which corner of our pass card is our pass number located in?
2)What do the holograms say on the front of our card?
3)What capital letter is on the front of everybodys cards starting with the new contract?
Can't wait to see your answers.
Good Luck
BIG AL - a real D.O.B. worker.
You forgot to ask him what 4 color designations there are, and for use by whom?
:-)
>>>1)Which corner of our pass card is our pass number located in?<<<
It's on the upper right hand center corner on the left towards the bottom.
>>>2)What do the holograms say on the front of our card?<<<
It says "Mess up and your paycheck is toast"
>>>3)What capital letter is on the front of everybodys cards starting with the new contract?<<<
I have four letters on my cards. A,K,Q and J. The others are numbered from 2 to 10.
Good golly gosh....If you truly were the DOB you would have a "@nyct.com" e-mail address. You don't, try again. LOL
Peace,
ANDEE
Thank You Andee, I thought I was the only one who'd notice that when I placed the mouse of the screen name.
To: DOB
And to the screen name Department of Buses, if you are not a "REAL" NYC Transit D.O.B. employee, kill the pranks because pranks like this can "REALLY" have this board shut down by the request of the TA.
Believe it or not, the TA is fully aware of both BusTalk and SubTalk so we are being monitored whether we like it or not.
Have A Safe and blessed day!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
look... if you want to come out of the closet, fine... but this is a public forum... please don't expose yourself here... there are other websites that you can do that on...
Weee ohhhh cover the eyes of the kids ... you rascel you ... this is a serious post, but now I'm LOL.
Mr t__:^)
Someone claiming to be "Department of Buses" using an email address "mailto:mabstoa_ta@usa.net" ranted:
"Well, thanks to an error in posting by a DOB employee, we've been exposed on this forum. He was going to post using this handle but accidentally used the old RTS_2150 handle we'd been using to monitor this place. Not for troublesome reasons mind you, just to observe how the community felt about us. We had no orders to do it. The DOB just wanted to see what was up."
What I'm gathering here, and mind you, I dont visit as regularly as I'd like, it's apparent that "RTS_2150" is either a NYCDOB employee, or someone who feels the need to justify the actions of said nickname, be that employee or otherwise.
As far as "observing" the community, the DOB knows full-well how we feel about them, both as employees and customers. They do not need to infiltrate this forum nor do they need to hide behind the guise of an "insider". These are actions of children, and while the DOB has been accused of many things, internet temper tantrums are not one of them.
The TA may very well observe this forum, as they do news:nyc.transit, however "observe" is the keyword here. Never has an official NYCDOB manager posted claiming such, although I know some who lurk.
"Eventually though, we got tired of getting dumped on, so we decided that we were going to expose ourselves, but keep the old handle as well. So much for that. Looks like the old RTS_2150 handle shall be retired."
We have 3 unions that continually "dump on" managemant. If you are serious about "exposing" yourself, please state your name and official status. Or meet me at QV depot at your leisure. We can exchange passes and bus stories.
"As for all the background behind the handle, we have an employee from Houston so he knew all the right things to say and when to say them. We sometimes made up banter about RTS_2150s real life and you had a legitimate disguise. It's gone now."
So what you're saying here, is that you phoned your friend in Houston, and he relayed this information to you? Why wouldn't the fellow from Houston simply create a handle, such as "RTS_2150" and post replies himself? Or, is this friend no longer an employee in Houston, but one that is now a NYCTA employee? Strangely, "RTS_2150" knew the goings-on in Houston while working here. He must have had a friend there as well.
As far as making up "banter" about someone's real-life (LOL) all I can say is that I'm laughing harder now than I was when I saw the email address, however, even an email address isn't proof positive of anything. Many DOB employees in officail ranks use outside email addresses, however, when acting within accord of the NYCTA in official business, they are requied to use such address. Hence, you are not an official employee, nor are you acting on behalf of the NYCTA.
"Anyway, if you have any questions, field them to us.
Department of Buses MaBSTOA/TA"
I'd rather phone you and discuss them personally. Please email to me your telephone number, and I will call at your leisure.
I'm also going to contact a friend of mine who works at NetAddress. I'd love to know if you have broken any ToS there :-)
Trevor mentioned the TA having a "right" to close this forum. Not true. The TA has no legal ground whatsoever to have a forum closed. Copyright laws do not apply to municipalities. Forums such as these are guaranteed under the first ammendment to the Constitution. Only you, Trevor, have the right to ban, censor, prohibit, or close this forum. Because you own it! :-)
Big Al- Those were good questions, but here's one better-
There is only ONE box left blank on your pay stub. Which box is left blank?
Oh that's easy! It's the one that says "Net Pay".
Excellent question also. Even I had to look at my pay stub to verify which box was blank. Since none of my questions were answered, and #3 was by far the easiest, that just proves we are not dealing with a D.O.B. employee. And this RTS-2150 person or Dept Of Buses person has posted on B/T everyday up until today. Just like Follo, looks like we suceeded in chasing him away.
BIG AL
Actually, I was locked out of the house. I have an apology in the next post.
Trevor doesn't own this forum, but he sometimes thinks he does.
-Hank :)
PS-me too.
Nassau county buses aren't the only thing breaking down in Nassau county. I've seen alot of police cars being towed lately!
I'm sure they will be stripped of their orange, freshly painted, and begin serving southeast queens very soon :-)
I have seen on two for ENY buses a red sticker under the nembers on the front for the buses. The two that I have seen were 4960 & 5232. dose anyone know what it is all about.
Robert
I saw 3669 on the Q24 yesterday at Jamaica Ave and Sutphin Blvd during the p.m. rush. I didn't notice the sticker on it. 5223 had one on it. Maybe they're only putting the sticker on the new buses.
The red stickers are being placed on the front and rear of the 1999 Novas out of ENY only (4945-5024, 5205-5249).
Why?
Q56#5000Gary
With the opening of the Green line to Branch Avenue, the idea of running all those buses from Friendship Heights to Southeast DC does not make much sense anymore to me. I have been thinking and have come up with the following service plan for "even 30s" service. Please respond with comments and suggestions. All routes would operate at the current frequencies except the 30, which would inherit the frequencies that the 32-36 ran at.
30-Friendship Heights to Eastern Market with selected trips going through to Potomac Avenue. Other trips originate/terminate at Tenleytown. Via Wisconsin Avenue, M Street, Pennsylvannia Avenue, H Street, I Street, 15th Street, 7th Street, Independance Avenue, and Georgetown.
32-Georgetown University to Southern Avenue. Via Resivour Road, Wisconsin Avenue, M Street, H Street, I Street, 15th Street, Pennsylvannia Avenue, 7th Street, Independance Avenue, 23rd Street, 25th Street, Minnesota Avenue, Naylor Road, Alamama Avenue, and Southern Avenue.
34-Farragut Square to Naylor Road. Via H Street, I Street, 15th Street, Pennsylvannia Avenue, 7th Street, Independance Avenue, 23rd Street, 25th Street, Minnesota Avenue, and Naylor Road.
35-Georgetown University to Naylor Road. Via Resivour Road, Wisconsin Avenue, M Street, H Street, I Street, 15th Street, Pennsylvannia Avenue, 7th Street, Independance Avenue, Branch Avenue, Camden Street, 33rd Street, Erie Street, and Naylor Road. Operates to Naylor Road in Weekday AM, from Naylor Road Weekday PM, and all day weekends. Use 36 at other times.
36-Georgetown University to Naylor Road. Via Resivour Road, Wisconsin Avenue, M Street, H Street, I Street, 15th Street, Pennsylvannia Avenue, 7th Street, Independance Avenue, Branch Avenue, Camden Street, 33rd Street, Erie Street, Gainsville Street, 31st Street, and Naylor Road. Operates to Georgetown in Weekday AM, from Georgetown Weekday PM, and no service weekends. Use 35 at other times.
Having ridden on a few NYC DOT buses (all RTS, transit-style), I have come across three different seat color coordinations:
Green
Orange-Tan
Gray-Red
Are there any others? Does the seat colors depend on which company the bus belongs to? For example, the green seats I rode were Green Bus Lines buses. The orange-tan and gray-red were Queens Surface, which carries an orange-red stripe.
I have not been on Triboro Coach, Jamaica or Command(yet), so I don't know about them.
Also, can anyone confirm the seat colors on Los Angeles MTA buses?
BTW - Seat colors of transit buses and airplanes have always been an interest of mine . . .
I do recall that the seat colors on the ex-WMATA buses used by GBL are blue. Besides that, I can't recall too much about NYCDOT buses.
Well looks like my big joke was a big bust. Well, like so many jokes, it's intent was to be harmless. It kinda was, but still had the potential to be devestating in some form or fashion.
I don't want this board to get shut down, this is one of my most favorite places on the internet. That's kinda why I wanted to play that little joke.
See, BusTalk had experienced a couple of slow days this week and I thought if I played that little joke it'd get people talking again. Well, it did, but not in the way I intended. It was going to be short term of course becuase by Monday it'd have to end by default since none of the moves would've occured and I'd be exposecd as a fraud and all the people who hate RTS or old buses in general would breathe a collective sigh of relief.
I was going to end this yesterday after I had screwed up and posted that Scenario 1 post under this handle. Then, Caine824 posted something that seemed to make me beieve that he believed I was the DOB. I didn't know what to do so I just went along with it.
Sorry I irritated so many of you. The intention was not to do that of course, but to put a lighter spin on this whole DOB Bus X-Fers thing. I'll get people talking the way I used to, my long RTS rants, criticizing popular belief, and just long rants of bus and transportation topics in general.
Once again I'm very sorry and I hope I haven't lost to many friends here.
Yours Truly,
RTS_2150
No problem apologies accepted, but next time sign as Heypaul. that would be funny.
humor can be a wonderful way to deal with some of he craziness of life... when i read your original post, i didn't take it seriously... as far as it causing this message board harm, i don't think so... people have slammed the department of buses in a more serious way, and no one has come down on them either from the outside or from the inside here...
i have long believed that railfans and busfans take themselves and their buses and trains too seriously...
i find it funny imagining that the department of subways sends out an unusual consist and then takes bets among themselves as to how long will it take for people on subtalk to comment on it... or that the department of buses is sending buses all over to rattle bus fans as well as their own employees...
so for my money, don't be too humbled by people's responses... thanks for the screwy take on what's been going on...
heypaul...
ceo of hepaul heavy industries...
and just another nut job...
Naughty, naughty, naughty, RTS_2150! But hey, we should subject ourselves to a little harmless fun once in awhile, just to make sure we're alive.
Besides, I don't know much about DOT operations. Other than BAT, Massport and Paul Revere, we just have the T.
Well, just got home after a prolonged trek over the bus system. The last bus I rode today was Neoplan Artic 4552. Like most of the Noplan Artic Transit buses, it's falling apart after less than three years in service. The inside and outside of the bus looks as if it's gone through a small war and the engine screams like a banshe and makes this wierd "oooohing" sound. The acceleration is that of a three legged slug tortoise with dried slime nd it rattles like a Flxible when it takes bumps. This bus sees a fair amount of service, but still, that's no excuse to be in this shape. All of the neoplans that spend 85% of the week in service are in this condition incluing my third most favorite bus in the fleet, Grummanplan 4541. These buses already look as if they've aged ten years, so how are they going to make it to ten. I think these wil be those buses that a TA gets rid of the moment they turn twelve or jsut the year in which they're supposed to do so.
If all Neoplans are built like this, then they are just as bad as the oft-criticized Gilligs. D40LFs 4000-4029 have been in service for almost five years but they still run well and look good. These Neoplans are pathetic and I hope Metro finds a reason to scrap them prematurely. Like a woman who lost her dream guy, these Neoplan Artics are going to pieces. And for that, they get a bi, fat, transfers down from yours truly.
I wonder if the problem could be on Metro's end. Perhaps Neoplan didn't do that good a job with the Metro order, but I can say that the SEPTA Neo artics are - by all accounts that I have been getting about them - running pretty good.
FWIW, Pittsburgh's Port Authority Transit system has had a litany of problems with their Neoplan low floor buses, though part of it has to do with PAT's spec writing as opposed to the builder.
No, Metro has done very good maintenence on those buses, even replacing their engines after ONE YEAR in service! These were the slowest buses in the fleet and alot of them still are. The new engines are beginning to become slow on most of the buses and the buses that still have good engines are falling apart. The Neoplans were built very badly and I don't se why Metro always goes back to them. I guess it's because the Neoplan Suburbans hold up well, but that's becuase they spend 60% of their time out of service.
Replacing the engines after one year of service doesn't mean good maintenance. Actually, that's a sign of BAD maintenance if the engines only lasted that long.
Most diesel engines will last 250,000 miles or more -- and transit buses usually do between 50,000 and 80,000 miles a year. At that rate, it would be at least four years on an engine if it is maintained properly.
Actually, that's a sign of a BAD BUS with a BAD ENGINE. During the time when Metro was replacing those engines, they were also recognized as having the best maintenence in America so I doubt it's our fault the Neoplans are falling apart.
Also, a Neoplan broke down today on the Bellaire line. Not surprising. I didn't get the number, but it wasn't 4541 becuase I saw her a little later. Wouldn't be surprised if it was 4552 though.
Hehe, maybe Neoplan is plotting against Metro, lol.
Doesn't say if it was an RTS or not. 8-)
CHICKEN RIDES THE BUS
Peace,
ANDEE
A Chicken Factory?
-Hank
The driver is from 126th Street Depot and the bus was an RTS.
I have seen posted here that NYBS will take order soon on the MCI buses, but what about Triboro, Green, and Queens? (I dont mention Jamaica becasue they didnt get any of the Orion V buses to begin with-any why not anyway)?
I would love to see the new either Flyer low floor or something different to DOB. I mean, if suffolk transit can run Flixible 30' buses, surely DOB can order buses like that for their routes.
Also, if Jamaica is short buses, why doesnt DOB let Jamaica operate a route or two and give Jamaica Depot a breather.
Buses run by the NYCTA,cause if everything goes according to plan:as of 12/31/01 no more franchise extension are going to be allowed and other companies (TA included I guess can start bidding on routes).It only seems that the buses run by the Coopers are prevent this from happening .In other words by next yr only QS and TA will be running in Queens only.
[...as of 12/31/01 no more franchise extensions are going to be allowed....]
I'm not sure about that. The 1992 City Charter Revision called for competitive bidding for the DOT routes, but the companies have consistently bought extensions in order to keep their sweetheart deals. Their contracts call for "cost-plus" operation, meaning that DOT reimburses ALL costs (including executive salaries, driver and maintainer wages, liability settlements, campaign contributions, and "penalties" for lousy service) and then adds a guaranteed profit margin. Each company rakes in big bucks just by existing; the more they spend, the more they make. Who would walk away from that?
That was under the Guiliani regime,from what I understand;the current canidates for Mayor (Hevesi,Vallone,Green mainly)are for ending the "sweetheart" deals that the DOT has been getting and opening up the bidding to finally give riders of the DOT decsent service(this applies mainly to those who frequent the lines operated by the Coopers whereas LL,NYBS and QS operates on par with the TA basically).
As far as I'm concerned, the city wants those companies out just to accomplish union busting. Why is the service so lousy? Because the DOT makes the rules! Get Cooper out, then Giuliani and his cronies will change the rules, then brainwash the public into believing that the former companies themselves were indeed at fault! If the city gets new companies to operate the routes, they'll use the same buses! What else can they use? I don't want my son going to school on a bus which is being operated by some towelhead who couldn't get a job as a taxi driver yet he is responsible for more people because he is driving a bus.
Towel-Head?
Well, if NYBS is about to get some MCI cruisers (and I hope that's what you mean, not the MCI Classics), then Liberty Lines will probably be getting some soon.
If that were the case, then the Classics days in NYC may be numbered.
(The bright side is, there's always Stamford....)
I've been checking around www.geocities.com/~buslist for a good past NYCTA bus roster, and all I've gottten was a quick status of the system's buses and their numbers in 1978. A few questions:
1) Has anybody ever heard or got a picture of the following model: 1976 LEY A-N-68A-2L? These were 8 double-deckers apparently used by the TA in 1976.
2) Does anybody have a complete roster? {such as from before 1962 through 1978 all the way up to the era of the RTS, around 1981, including the 1980 Gruumans)
3) The 1978 roster doesn't list any buses delivered specifically for express service from 1962 all the way through 1970. Were the regular buses used for both local/express, or is there something I don't know about?
Any answers would be greatly appreciated.
The double deckers you speak of were eventally sent to San Francisco. I'm sure somebody has pictures. Go to the main page and maybe you can find some on this site.......TA express routes haven't been around for as long as you think. The first "express" buses were some of the 1968 fishbowls with soft seats, basically the 8900 series. You know, the model seen during the credits on "Welcome Back Kotter". Eventually, most buses from this order (8800 and 8900's) were converted to soft seaters.
1. Those oddball model numbers you quoted were the Leyland double-deckers that NYCTA experimented with in the early 1980's. They didn't last long at NYCTA and were sold to Grosvenor Bus Lines/Gray Line of San Francisco. I remember riding in them when GLOSF was running a shuttle route from downtown to Fisherman's Wharf in 1983 when the SF Muni cable car system was out of service while being completely rebuilt.
2. I did post (months ago) production records of the buses that NYCTA/MABSTOA obtained from the builders in the years you mentioned. You might want to check the archives section of Bus Talk, I don't know how far back it will go. But, I did post the bus numbers, manufacturer, serials, and dates of delivery.
3. Between 1962 and 1970, the TA didn't run any express stuff. That started in the mid to late 1970's if I remember correctly.
TA started express service around the late 60's to early 70's. The X63, X64,X68 previously called the X24,X25,X27 (correct me on any mistakes) ran the upper 6100's back in 1972.
The X63 was the X20
The X64 was the X24
The X68 was the X18
Yes they did run 6164-6180 between JAM and QV. Later on, ex-Ulmer Park 8807-8816 came over to JAM
I remember there being called a B27X
B27X now X27.
All the express buses were originally R/B/QnnX.
-Hank
Also, there are a few mistakes on that list which should read:
2001-2175 1962 TA
5601-5790 1965 TA
9000-9154 1976 TA
9155-9159 1976 TA or OA? FLX 53102-8-1
Missing from the list:
1-190 1959 TA GM TDH5301
501-805 1960 TA GM TDH5301
1001-1130 1961 TA GM TDH5301
3301-3555 1963 OA GM TDH5303
7000-7208 1957 TA GM TDH5101
9000-9120 1958 TA GM TDH5106
There were also some 3100's & 3200's from OA which were originally 5th Ave. Coach and Surface Transit buses.
9150-9154 were TA Flx 53102-8-1; 9155-9159 were MaBSTOA same model.
As for the missing coaches, it was a snapshot roster from 1978, not an all-time roster.
According to the Ohio Museum of Transportation's ( WWW.OMOT.ORG) Flxible manufacturing list is as follows:
9000-9154 53102-6-1 NYCTA
9155-9159 53102-8-1 NYCTA
9160-9164 53102-8-1 MaBSTOA
9165-9309 53102-6-1 MaBSTOA
Serial numbers 63095-63404 but not in order with TA/OA serial numbers.
Delivery date 3/77
I don't have serial number info, but the model, fleet numbers for these are correct. I remember the MABSTAOA 1977 Flxibles with the 8V-71 engines (9160-9164) well when there were delivered to COL in 1977. I was only 11 years old but I knew they were different right away. First I the different sound and they were clearly faster buses. Also these buses had "New York City Transit Authority" decals on them instead of "Mattanhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority" Even on the lower part of the tailgate where TA/OA fleet numbers were located these buses had their numbers spaced, but the others had their numbers close together.
9160-9164 spent most of their years at COL and later WF, but they disappeared well before the other 9000 series Flxibles.
Wayne
I am in the process of putting together a roster - complete with serial #s - dating from the new look era to 1993, prior to the delivery of the Orions. I only have SNs for the RTS fleet up to 1994 (the 8600s). I hope to have it up in a matter of days.
Where would it go up?
My Northeast Bus and Rail Gallery. I have already added several rosters from Mass, Pa., Delaware, and RIPTA in the past few weeks.
I just completed the Fishbowl and RTS/later generation rosters for NYC Transit/MaBSTOA. The links are as follows:
1959-1979: http://www.geocities.com/ctrabs74/rosters/nycta2.html
1980-present: http://www.geocities.com/ctrabs74/rosters/nycta3.html
I am in the process of putting together the 1940-1950 era roster up, though that might be very difficult.
These URLs have not been added to my main web site page (http://www.geocities.com/ctrabs74/), but that will be done in a day or two.
Hey guys, I'm a regular on Subtalk, but I've never followed bustalk. There was a thread on subtalk that intrigued me, but I thought it would more appropriate to ask here. How did SEPTA's route numbers (and particularly letters) come into being? Where they mostly old trolley lines (I know some of them are)? In particular, X, XH, Z... They just look strange when most routes are numbers. Thanks to anyone who can help me out.
Any route that has a letter intstead of a number designation meant that it was never a trolley route, it was always a bus route. In the PRT/PTC era, all trolley routes were numbered, and all bus routes were lettered, since therer were more trolley lines than bus lines in the past. Two bus routes; "D" and "E" were "renamed" 21 and 65. Now I offer a suggestion, since there are now more bus routes than trolley routes, I suggest that the trolleys have letter designations, e.g.:
A- City Hall Via Subway To 63rd & Malvern
B- City Hall Via Subway To Darby Borough Via Woodland Avenue
C- City Hall Via Subway To Yeadon/Darby/Mt. Moriah Via Chester Avenue
D- Richmond & Westmoreland To 63rd & Girard
E- 10th & Bigler To Germantown Avenue & Bethlehem Pike
F- City Hall Via Subway To 61st & Baltimore
G- City Hall Via Subway To Eastwick
H- Torresdale & Cottman To Midvale Via Erie Avenue
Y- 69th Street To Media
Z- 69th Street To Sharon Hill
Notice i did not include The Route 100 since I think that should be a rapid transit line instead of a trolley line.
You also included the trolleybus lines as well, or are those converted bus lines? Which of those are which letter? Is the 15 route D?
I know E is the 23, since I lived on 11th & Spruce last year.
Just in case that SEPTA decides to restore trolley service on those three lines. The trolleybus routes should have a double-letter designation.
Actually, the letters were assigned to bus routes by Phila. Transporation Co. (PTC). All of the old trolley lines that were abandoned and/or are still in service, used numbers (15, 23, 56 are technically "temporary bus operations" and have separate pickings at Callowhill (15) and Midvale (nee Luzerne - 23, 56)). Other recent trolley lines that were converted to bus include the 6, 53, and 60.
The Subway-Surface lines have always had numbers. This dates back to the days when the S-S lines operated along Market St at street level. (BTW, the 37 bus between Chester and South Philadelphia also decended from the sub-surf system.
I know a few of the letters were routes that ran to the far northeast and northwest sections of Philadelphia and into the suburban counties. I don't have the numbers/letters in front of me, but I can find out in a few days.
I do know that the A bus became portions of the 9, 27, and 32 in Manayunk/Roxborough; I believe the D became the 21 between 69 St and Center City via Chestnut/Walnut; the E is what is now known as the 65; and I think the B service along upper Roosevelt Blvd might have been what is now the 14, but don't hold me to it, prior to the opening of Oxford Valley Mall in Middletown Twp, Bucks County.
The PTC lines operated out of Chester were numbered in the 80 series before SEPTA incorporated them into the Suburban/Red Arrow division, whence they recieved the 100-110 series numbers. The Red Arrow bus lines out of 69 St were also lettered.
For example, the "W" is what is the present 104 bus to West Chester; the "X" was the Lancaster Av local - which was actually extended all the way to Exton Square Mall as late as the 1970's and served the old Autocar plant on US 30, in what is now the Whiteland Business Park - is now the 105, and operates into Paoli Hospital, which is the terminus for that line.
The P&W (Norristown) and Red Arrow trolley lines (Media/Sharon Hill) were not given number designations until the late 1980's. Even then, the roll signs on the Kawasaki LRVs still read either "Media" or "Sharon Hill" instead of "101 Media Local" or "102 Sharon Hill Local"
The only remaining lettered lines in the SEPTA system are these 7 City Divison lines:
C - Ogontz Loop/Fern Rock to City Hall/South Philadelphia
G - Overbrook to South Philadelphia Food Dist. Ctr
H/XH - Broad & Erie to Ogontz Loop
J - Germantown to Pt Richmond via Arrott Terminal
K - East Falls to Arrott Terminal via Germantown
L - Olney Terminal to Chestnut Hill/Plymouth Mtg Mall
R - Wissahickon Transfer Ctr to Frankford Terminal via lower Roosevelt Blvd
The H and XH have a common routing between Broad & Erie and Chelten Av & Walnut Ln; the H stays on Chelten and reaches Ogontz Loop via Mt Pleasant Av, Easton Rd, and Wadsworth Av, while the XH operate via Walnut Ln, Washington Ln, and 74 Av.
The D becoming the 21 is correct, I used to ride it when I was younger. These were changes made a little while ago also:
44G-->49-->121
M --->68
P --->merged into the 89
X (CTD)--->77
I received on my fire/news pager this afternoon a report of a bus rollover with fire on Route 80 in Allamuchy Township NJ. Numerous injuries reported. Does anyone have any further info on this accident? Thanks.
Mark Watson
Saw a quick item while channel surfing on one of the City stations.
Apparently it happened on Route 80. The bus appeared to be a MCI 102 DL 3 operated by Martz lines.
Fortunately the report said that there were only minor injuries, no major injuries or fatalities. The slippery roads due to the rain / freezing rain precursor to tonights snowstorm was the cause.
Watch the 10 or 11 o'clock news reports for further updates.
Most of MARTZ's Scranton-NYC commuters would rather ride this once it starts.
Midtown Direct service caused a big downsizing for Lakeland Transit. Scranton to NYC service, eventhough it is too far to commute to/fom daily, would cause the same fate for Martz.
Mainly if this service starts.
But the time would be added to by changing from the F40PHs to the HHPs or AEM7s at Dover.
By that time, the F40's will be retired. In addition, it would be labor intensive to change engines at Dover. They can easily use Genesis dual mode engines.
NJT does not like dual mode engines. They claim there is no caternary and diesel engine around that is reliable. Amtrak and Metro North use third rail and New Haven line uses Caternary and thrid rail.
AFAIK, there are NO diesel-electric/high-voltage AC locomotives in existence. And I doubt that one would ever be built, due to the need for a heavy transformer. Genesis locos would work if they extended the third rail out to at least Secaucus.
-Hank
Click here for the story in Sunday's Star-Herald
I'm not sticking my neck out too far in saying that the inexperience of the driver may have been a factor in the accident. These bus companies are having problems recruiting drivers and keeping them due to the long hours, routes which keep them away from home during off duty hours, and low pay.
Don't forget the second accident that involved a Greyhound Lucky Streak on the Garden State.
-Hank
Does anyone out there know of a site with info and pictures about different bus models, somewhere along the lines of NYCSubway.org? I'd like to know more about the buses I ride daily--something more to bore my friends with.
Dan
There is www.transit-rider.com, which has information about the bus models, although at a bare minimum. There is also transit-talk.com, where there are many links to bus sites.
You should also go to www.transitworld.org. Its a great website and has a ton of pictures.
You can also try,
TransiTALK by Trevor Logan - www.transitalk.com
NYC TransiTrans by David Justiniano - www.geocities.com/nyctransitrans/
Oren's Transit Page by Oren H. - www.orenstransitpage.com
Regards,
TLJ
www.geocities.com/transitalk/Sites/Main.html
i wonder if it would be hard to disconnect the articulated section from an articulated bus, and just send out the front half to make the buses safer to operate.. perhaps they could put a heavy blue tarp at the rear of the first section to prevent people from falling off the bus... i hope there is a set of wheels underneath the front half before the articulated joint, otherwise this probably isn't such a good idea... although if the rear were to drag in the snow, it might aid in snow removal...
LOL. Great idea except for one flaw. What do you do about the engine and transmission which both reside in the rear portion? Maybe the TA can cut holes in the floor and have everyone use foot power like the Flintstones.
heypaul almost got it right; they should run only the rear section of the bus.
So you're saying he got the wrong half half-right, right?
-Hank
That idea would work on a Volvo Articulated, since the engine and transmission is on the front portion. My question is why? Even if you can run the front half, wouldn't it get drafty with that big hole in the rear?
Then why not put a salt spreader over there. As the bus moves the spreader spits out salt.
2 more bus accidents in the news,only brief details on Yahoo news on line.Both related to the snowstorm that hit the East Coast late Saturday/early Sunday.
A Greyhound bus on a run from Atlantic City (destination city not mentioned) flipped over around 2AM Sunday on the Garden State Parkway near Tom's River,NJ.35 injuries reported, some serious.
A chartered bus w/50 passengers aboard travelling from Wilkes-Barre PA to Atlantic City collided with a PA DOT plow truck on Route 476 just below the PA Turnpike, which according to my map is just northwest oh Philadelphia.The bus then crashed into a ravine.34 passengers reported injured, the bus and plow driver reported seriously injured.
Mark Watson
I recently received a reasonable answer for DOB recommissioning storage/scrapped buses. It seems as though the repowering (engine change) of the 1993 RTS and Orions have left DOB short of buses, causing them to rely on their storage fleet. That all sounds fine and good, but if they know that they're going to be short on buses, you would think that they would send a number of buses over to ENY Base Shop to be prepped for service. Instead, they relied on the individual depots to do major work getting these buses ready for service. Thats why JAM got rid of 2640, 3030, 3033, 3909 and 4003 as fast as they got them.
Mark
that may be true but they have returned almost all the orion surburbans to yukon i.e. 120,125 and 126-143. most of these buses are not in service. also yukon received several storage buses. decals have been placed on them but none are in service. i can only think perhaps they are going to repower 8293-8317 and use these while this is done.
The 1990 RTS's (8000-8396) won't be repowered until next year
REGULAR SERVICE .BROADWAY TO E.34 STREET STATION
fARE ZONE 1---Beginning on West 1st Street at Avenue C,City of Bayonne
R On Avenue C
R on West 5th Street
L on Broadway
L on West 10th Street
R on Avenue C
R on 32nd Street
L on Avenue E
to the HBLRT station bus stop on Avenue E at 34th Street.next to the VFW parking lot,,,City of Bayonne
DESTINATION SIGN
HNBLRT SHUTTLE
REGULAR SERVICE ..E.34TH STREET STATION TO BROADWAY
FARE ZONE 1
Beginning on Avnue E at the 34 th Street HBLRT station Bus Stop ,City of Bayonne
C on Avenue E
L on 36 street
L on Avenue C
L on West 10th Street
R on Broadway
R on West 1st Street to Avenue C,City of Bayonne
This is the formal route Description for the 381 HBLRT
Hi ,I have asked this to Subtalk ,,with no response
I am looking for current rosters
---including the DATE of mfgr and Model numbers
Most rosters that i have seen ,,are missing one or both of the about items
Thank you
Steve
Here's some partial SEPTA info, I'm sure someone can correct what may be wrong.
101-188 GE Silverliner IV 1974-76 MU, Married Pair
220-229 St. Louis Silverliner III 1967 MU, Single
(aka Lateliner)
250-269 Budd Silverliner II 1964? MU, Single
(aka Silverliner)
270-303 GE Silverliner IV 1974-76 MU, Single
304-399 GE Silverliner IV 1974-76 MU, Married
400-417? GE Silverliner IV 1974-76 MU, Single, nee 9018-9035
2301-2307 EMD/ABB AEM-7 1987 Locomotive
2308 ADTranz ALP-44 1998? Locomotive
2401-2410 Bombardier JWC-3C 1987 Push-pull Cab Car
(aka Comet II?)
2501-2525 Bombardier JWC-3T 1987 Push-pull trailer
2551-? Bombardier JWC-3T 1999/2000? Push-pull trailer
[ex]9001-9017 Budd Silverliner II 1964? MU, single, renumbered to?
[2551-? Bombardier JWC-3T 1999/2000? Push-pull trailer ]
2550-2559; these were purchased originally as part of the I-95 construction project, however they often see service on the Paoli line.
[9001-9017 Budd Silverliner II 1964? MU, single, renumbered to?]
AFAIK, these coaches were never renumbered.
SEPTA renumbered single-unit Silverliner IV's 9018-9031. Originally I thought they were renumbered in the 400's, but I have also noticed married pairs were numbered in 400's as well. Would anybody know where in the number scheme is 9018-9031 is hiding?
Looks like my question has been answered.
Two words.....
THEY SUCK!!!!
Corgi really screwed the pooch on these.
1. The green they painted the body with looks more like New Haven Railroad "Hunter Green" than the really sharp looking metallic dark green that NYCTA got on their new look fleet.
2. The fleet numbers are too damn tall and too damn skinny, so they don't look at all like NYCTA. You can hardly discern what they numbered the bus unless you look REAL close! The bus is numbered "14" which is correct for the TDH5301's, and Corgi actually did put the 5301 details on the model (except the engine hatch is a 5303 type -- but I have seen many switched all around the country).
3. The headsigns. Who the heck told Corgi that the original-style headsigns on the NYCTA TDH5301's had a RED background around the lettering????????????????? The reading is....."42 Rockaway Pkwy to Belt Pkwy". If they only left a BLACK background on them, they'd be PERFECT in appearance. Also, I'm not sure that the original bunch of TDH5301's ever had side route signs just forward of the rear doors (as some later NYCTA/MABSTOA new look deliveries DID have), but Corgi put it on the model.
The bottom of my bus is marked "2173 of 2400 pieces distributed worldwide". I guess they did figure there'd be more of a demand for the NYCTA version, as the past few runs of Corgi new looks (i.e. Greyhound NYWF glasstop, Toronto, LAMTA) were done in runs of 1500 only. (Most of the other Corgi new looks were 5000-6000 lots, and about 2/3 of them wound up in merchandise liquidation outlets at very reduced prices.)
If I remember ,the 5301's had the side destination signs by the rear door.
Not in the photos I have saved on the computer -- at least the 1-190 series.
Actually I'm wrong on that one....the 1-190 series most certainly DID have the side route signs near the rear door as Woodhaven Steve posted.
The ones I was thinking of were the 3101-3220 series (FACL/STC units) that had them up front when delivered, but by 1970 or so, they were all moved to the rear position to match the rest of the NYCTA units. Joe Testagrose recently posted a bunch of this series of buses, and you can see the empty rectangular clear glass up front, and the signs are at the rear position (with some non-standard looking rubber moulding on their front and back edges).
Where are Joe Testagrose's pictures posted other than this website? I don't see the 5th Ave./Surface Transit buses that were mentioned. Also, are there any other websites with vintage NYCTA/MaBSTOA bus pictures?
Thanks.
Joe posts a lot of stuff in the newsgroups. Specifically, the alt.binaries.pictures.vehicles sites.
I don't kow where there is an archive for this particular newsgroup, you just gotta catch them as they are posted before your ISP moves them out.
Steve,
Until Corgi decides to re-cast the transits with a CORRECT rear door, I won't even bother. The accurate rear door would be narrower than the front door, and the upper windows stop at the upper belt line, not the lower belt as they have on their models. And will someone please show them what the correct marker lights look like in terms of size and proportion?
The closest model they have to perfect is the Carolina Trailways SDM5302 - only flaw there is the taillights (they used a T5307/5308-S5304 engine door). The only model they have in which the marker lights and taillights match is the Philadelphia TDH5303.
why havent they done a ho scale model like this? i mean, the 1/43 scale is cool but 1/87 is better. I still want a ORION V or a RTS in 1/87 scale. anybody know if any new models in 2001 will be in ho 1/87 scale?
Corgi bus models are not 1/43 - they are 1/50 (standard rail model scale). Corgi's American Classics line will likely not go to 1/87, although the Greyhound MCI MC8 was made that small back in the 70s.
Hot Wheels made a poor (in my opinion) RTS-03 slantback model in the early 80s that was too tiny to be interesting. I'd actually like to see Corgi do a 1/50 RTS-06 to join the MCI 102DL3 in the modern coach line.
Where to buy, where to buy? I haven't seen these Corgis anywhere. Where are you all picking them up?
Chris
I get mine now at Zion Collectibles in Illinois:
http://www.zionantiquemall.com/page8/
In addition to the NYCTA fishbowl, there is also a Coach USA MCI 102DL3 available shortly. Pictures on the site of all the current models.
Thanks for the tip. I noticed subsequently that there are also a variety of Corgis on eBay. I appreciate the help! :)
Chris
That 102DL3 is gorgeous! Oh, I want it I want it I want it!
C
I have had VERY good experiences with Die Cast Direct, have bought over their web site on a few occasions. Fast shipping and usually lower than normal retail prices, and $4.95 shipping.
http://www.diecastdirect.com
I have a couple of those MC-8's from Corgi, and they are NOT 1/87 (HO) scale. They are NOT 1/64 (S) scale either. Somewhere in between, I'm guessing 1/76 (British OO) as many of Corgi's models are made this size under their "Original Omnibus" line.
The reason they made the Yellow 743's, GM old looks and new looks to the 1/50 scale is mainly so they could be placed on Lionel toy train layouts.
The original Corgi moldmakers used plans issued by GMD for some older newlooks in Canada, hence the rear door windows being too tall. I know it looks unprototypical for us diehard bus fans, but when it's the only model around that is "somewhat" decent, we've got to be thankful for that. Funny thing is, those smaller GM newlooks that made the rounds of drug stores, etc. and came in two phony Greydog and one phony NY Bus paint schemes, have the same wrong size exit door windows. And the front ends....UGH! Headlamps too close, etc. Roof/side seams really bad. Guess the chinamen who reduced the Corgi bus didn't quite do it too well!! (I've just measured those buses, and they come out to 42.5 feet long/9.5 feet wide on HO scale ruler.
(31.5' x 7.25' on S scale). So, I assume they, too are British OO scale.
Steve, I have some of the Made in China Fishbowls that you described; they are about 1/64 scale, or S scale. In fact, you will find that they are in scale with Hot Wheels cars if you put the two side by side.
Another note is that these seem to be 35 footers rather than 40 footers...correct me if I am wrong, but that may explain your estimates of 31 and 41 feet...it could very well be that it's right in the middle.
At present, I am cutting one of these down to a 30-footer to make a model of a 3302; also, I am scratch-building an AC unit for the rear and canning those clumsy-looking generic chrome wheels for some front wheels and tandems out of a 1/72 scale Volvo crane truck that look a lot more like bus wheels once fully detailed. More on this project as it develops...
No, they are larger than "S" (1/64) scale. I am measuring them with a multi-scale model railroad ruler. None of my figured were estimated.
Using the "S" scale part of the ruler, they measure out to 7'6" width. Not right, we know they gotta be either 96" or 102".
They measure 88/64 wide (1-3/8 or 1/375 inches) and exactly 6 inches long (384/64).
If you do any sorts of math, they aren't correctly proportioned length x width. Oh well, for the price, I won't write my congressman! :-)
can you send me a picture of it when it is done? i may want to buy one if possible-my email address is pingu45@aol.com
Pingu45, I remember we had talked before about Vegas Grumman models; check back with me and I will update you on the 30' Fishbowl. Take care, and see you on the bus.
Rumor has it that American Precision Models will be releasing an HO model of the GM Fishbowl; of course, they also promised it at the early part of last year, so it will be as the crow flies.
Model companies usually delay new releases until a lot longer after they are promised. Case in point; Revell-Monogram promised to release the 1969 Dodge Dart GTS a a model kit in 1995...I finally received mine fresh from the hobby store shelves around early 1997.
You never know, maybe they're working out detail flaws to ensure a quality model of the 5300 series. In that case, it's worth the wait.
I think a now-defunct company at one time made Fishbowls in HO -- I recall reading about it in Model Railroader in the early '90s.
I don't have any HO-scale buses, unfortunately. Never seen 'em at a hobby shop. My layout's vehicles are limited to cars and semi-trailers ... wish I could add public transit to that.
C
Yes, you are correct -- there was a compnny that made HO scale fishbowl bus models. I'm not sure if they are defunct or not.
The company was Pirate Models -- of England. They make all sorts of bus models cast in white metal and for the most part, their kits are quite difficult to get fully assembled and finished. The GM fishbowls originally cost $27.50 when they were first introduced but they are still catalogued by Walthers (a major model railroad supplier) and the price nowadays is around $67.50.
Not only did they make the HO scale TxH5307A fishbowls, but also GM TD4502/4506's, GM TDH4509/4512's, Grumman 870's, GM RTS-II's (in both slant- and square-back versions), a Blue Bird "pusher" school bus, and a GM PD4903/P8M4905/H8H649 highway bus. All were about equally difficult to finish.
They also made an N-scale GM RTS-II in the slant- and square-back versions -- it was a five piece kit that went together quite easily. These started out at around $10.00 but I have seen them listing for $21.99 recently. And until recently, I didn't know it, but they made an N-scale Grumman 870. Found one on eBay, and was ablt to procure it for less than ten bucks. Same 5-piece kit method as the RTS-II in N-scale. Neither look too bad for their small size.
And one big, definite PLUS about the GM 5307 models.....they come with BATWINGS!!!!!!!!
Right you are; a quick search on Walthers.com for "gm bus" yielded the Pirate Models suite fairly quickly -- Batwings, RTSs, and all. Thanks for pointing me to that -- if they were in the last Walthers catalogue I had (a now-discarded 1998 edition), I didn't see them.
Regrettably, Walthers has them marked as "back-ordered" and notes that "reorder status is unknown" -- in other words, as you said, out of production. Hopefully they'll turn up on some dusty hobby shop shelf. It wasn't a total bust, though: American Precision Models has some pretty spiffy Old Looks in HO scale!
Cheers,
Chris
And it's really NOT even a TDH5303!!!!!
Measure the Corgi bus, and it is a 96" wide version.....a TDH5304.
And there is one other correct lamp/tailgate Corgi bus.....Riverside Transit Agency (CA) 153. Not available to the public....it's one I custom painted for my personal collection.
I notice that I often feel tired on the LI Buses, particularly the CNG Orions powered by Cummins. Today for instance, I was on the N27 and I felt like I couldn't stay awake, alot of the passengers also looked quite sleepy. I notice that the Cummins Orions have a natural gas smell, especially when sitting in the back. So this is what it's leading up to, is there a minor Carbon Monoxide leak or something? Once I was off the bus I felt awake again!
maybe it is.
Just hope someone doesnt smoke. Carbon Dioxide does make you feel sleepy cause of the lack of oxygen to your brain.
Just another reason to avoid the Cummins. Maybe that explains why sometimes (usually a Cummins) someone opens the window even if it's cold outside.
Maybe I should bring a CO detector on the bus and see what happens!
I now have my own webpage, dealing with the buses of the MBTA.
The link http://sites.netscape.net/orion5bjc/homepage will direct you right to it. All you have to do is click the shuttle bus to enter the website proper.
There are two minor things you might want to watch out for:
1) In the LINKS section, the symbols for the Lowell Regional Transit Authority (LRTA) and Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (WMATA) are missing. They will be put in ASAP, but it will direct you to the appropriate sites.
2) In the FUTURE ROSTERS section, there should be a bus picture there, and it too is missing, but clicking on it will bring it up (it's a NABI from San Francisco).
If there is any inaccurate information, send it along to orion5bjc@yahoo.com and you will get credit it for it. You can also "reciprocate" a link if you want back to your site.
Right now, it's a basic site, but I plan putting in more stuff into the site (like pictures, trips to other transit authorities) as time goes by.
Orion5bjc
Do you think it would be a good idea to give bus drivers the authority to ticket parked cars that are blocking bus routes? I don't mean any car along its route, but when the bus literally can't go on until the driver returns to his/her car. This has happened to me a lot on Philadelphia's narrow streets, and it backs up traffic behind the bus as well. The driver is just sitting there for 20 minutes with cars honking behind him, so why not give him the authority to step out, write down the tag number, and give the car a $50 fine?
I would not want to do that. These people sometimes goes crazy on the Police, what would keep them from doing the same to the buses opts.
Robert
Also, if you the guy/gail three stops down the route, would you want to wait in the cold for the driver to write a ticket ?
Mr t__:^)
That's not going to do any good - the car will still be there blocking traffic, only with a summons ticket on the windshield
Besides, aren't bus stops tow-away zones? If not, they damn well should be!
They might think twice about doing it again.
They are, but here in DC, the police is very good at being at the wrong place at the wrong time. In other words, if there is a car parked illegally, you won't find police anywhere.
I went down Mass Ave. every day for about 9 months. Every day, there were cars parked illegally in the same place. Only once, did one of them have a "TOW" sticker on them.
. . . and yet every time I try to park in a bus zone, on a Sunday morning when there is no service on the particular route, I get ticketed. There is no justice in the world! :)
Chris
Now that I think about it, maybe it should be legal to park in those zones when there is no service. But that probably means some jerk who doesn't move their car will disrupt service when it resumes.
On Staten Island, many bus stops are labeled with 'Mon to Fri'
-Hank
All of New York City is a tow away zone.
Forget idiots illegally parking in bus stops - how about illegally pakred police cars? Apprently, as part of the Queens Blvd crackdown (I hesitate to use the word "Blitz," the bus remanufacturer notwithstanding) that began yesterday, the police have commandeered bus stops to station police cars. The Q46 was boarding in the middle of the service road! What a mess.
BTW, I got #3906 on the Q46; still has the old style numbers and the "M-NEW YORK CITY SURFACE" logo. It seemed to run pretty well. #3947 was discharging at the same time, also in the old getup.
What time did you take 3906? I saw her at Main and Union going to Queens Blvd-a few behind my bus that I rode which was 8379- a dog. 3906 I bet is much better than 8379-that's for sure.
Q46#3906Gary
It was probably around 6:15 PM; I'm guessing you saw it about 10-15 minutes earlier. I think 8379 was the local that was boarding (it was an 8300, anyway). The police car that was in the stop raced out and caught someone for doing something (he wasn't going all that fast, either) while 3906 was boarding.
Q46#3906Mike
A marked RMP is NEVER illegally parked.
-Hank
Yeah - The brownies (I know they ditched the brown years ago) regulary park illegally to write tickets to other vehicles. Once a buddy of mine noticed that the NYPD regularly violate all sorts of traffic rules when they clearly are not on an emergency run. I pointed to him that this power abuse seems to be a NYPD thing because... other places I've noticed that the police will follow the rules unless their lights and siren are blaring.
Wayne
Haven't been online for the last couple of days, so I figured I would let everybody know that their favorite depot in Queens (Jamaica) scrapped 4566 last week. Decals, farebox and radio already gone. Don't know why as of now, but I think that bus did smoke alot, and I know it was a slow piece of garbage anyway. No other buses have been sent over since 4003 & 3909 arrived in and left again. Will keep everybody posted as to what happens next.
BIG AL
Dearly Beloved: We are gathered together today to mourn the losses of Old Jamaica RTS Buses 1740, 1747, 1752, 1755, 1844, 3030, 3033, 3573, 3575, 3865, 3870, 3881, 3909, 4350, 4353, 4355-4356, 4566 and 4591. They all seemed to be full of life until they arrived at Jamaica Depot. 13-19 years of life, these buses died so young and in their prime. May they be laid to their final resting spot in everlasting peace next to 1746 at Nimco. They are survived by their relatives 1751 1767 1773 1826 and 1852. Who will survive?
FOR THE LAST TIME: Q17#1755Gary ;(
RIP 1755!!!
PS 1751 was seen on the Q46 today-once again.
That was a beautiful eulogy.
Today's trip brings me to New Haven, Connecticut. The day began with a 1 hour and 32 minute ride on MTA-Metro North's New Haven Line. The ride was nice and very scenic.
After arriving in New Haven at the Railroad Station. I walked out side and had 3 choices of buses (The J, A, or M). I picked the J bus (MCI Classic #9144) which brung me into Downtown New Haven. After alighting the bus at Church and Chapel Streets, I realized that I was surrounded by nothing other than a full fleet of MCI Classics & NovaBUS Classic TDSs. I fumbled around downtown for a while blew a whole roll of Black and White film in a matter of 20 minutes. After blowing the first roll of film, I decided to take my lunch break, SO I DID!
After lunch, I decided it was time for some digital photography, so out comes the digital camera. I start flash off a few pics but finally realized I was not getting a real variety of back drops, so I picked a line to ride and off I went. The line of choice was the C1 to Wallington (MCI Classic #9116). WHOA! That was one helluva ride, 1 hour and 15 minutes to Wallington. After arrving at the Kohls (which is the last stop on the C line in Wallington), I snapped a few pics of the bus there and another bus that arrived behind us on the "B" line. After that, I reboarded the same C1 bus back into Downtown New Haven. But something was wierd, this time our sign stated C1X Downtown, so I knew I was in for something special. Sure enough, this was took I-91 back into downtown, Bus it wasn't special enough, the bus would not go over 52 MPH, EWWWWWWW!
After arriving back into downtown, I snapped some pics in front of this beautiful church. I still felt I needed another back drop, so at that point a B4 bus (NovaBUS Classic TDS #9610) pulled up and off to Bull Hill Lane I went. Arrived in Bull Hill and snapped pics of the bus there, sky was a beautiful purple. After that photo session, back on to #9610 but she was heading back as a B3 which was good, another line other than the B4 to ride. After arriving back downtown, I putzed around until my 6:52 J1 bus came for me to head back to the Railroad station. It arrived, and just so happened to be the bus I started my day on, #9144 YAY!
In Arriving back to the Railroad station, I looked at the board to see my train was leaving at 7:15pm which was cool, but below it, it stated that the Amtrak Acela train was coming at 7:18pm, so I waited around for that train to show for a photo session, it came, I did the deed and waited for my 7:59pm Metro North back to Grand Central.
End of the Day!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
It's the same deal with the DOT suburban classics .Those buses have no pick up(especially in the summer when the a/c is running)
Unfortunately, New Haven probably offers the least amount of fleet variety of the three CT Transit cities, with only Classics. I thought there may be some 1999 low-floor El Dorados in New Haven, but perhaps they are only in Hartford and Stamford.
By the way, the 9100 series of Classics in New Haven are actually from two different model years, neither of which is 1991! 9101-9144 are 1990 models, while 9145-9188 are 1992 models.
Hartford is harder to get to from NYC, but has a wider variety of equipment: 9000 series Classics; 9200 series Classics; 9300 series New Flyer DH40's; 9400 series New Flyer DH-40's; 9600 series Classics; 9900 series El Dorado low-floors; 1991 suburban seating Classics (911-915) and 1994 suburban seating New Flyer DH40's (941-960; used to have 961-965, but these are now in Stamford on I-Bus service).
Well, believe me Hartford is on my itinerary of places to visit on my Mission Mondays, so is the Stamford Division.
As you can see I'm running a serious Blitzkreig on the Northeast Corridor, so believe me there are many Mission Monday shorts coming. Some cities are up for repeat since I didn't get to cover all basis, such as D.C., Baltimore, and Connecticut.
Hartford is easy to get to, Take Bonanza!!!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Stamford is certainly worth a visit, as CT Transit will probably be replacing the 25 1988 Scania's (and the 1987 35 foot Scania) in the near future. Last I heard, they were thinking about either low-floor Flyers or NABI's as potential replacements. As you know, Scanias are very rare in the U.S.
Greyhound and Peter Pan have excellent pooled service between Port Authority and Hartford. Last time I checked, service was pretty close to once an hour.
Thanks Sid, I'll probably do Peter Pan!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I think they may have replaced the 35-ft Scania once the 30-ft low floors arrived in Stamford.
I think I stated this in a prior post a month ago, but Sid is correct about the Scanias being rare. The Bus in Hawaii, CT Transit/Stamford, and COAST in Portsmouth/Durham, NH are the only three systems in the US (that I know of) that still operate these buses.
These buses are probably even more rare than the Volvos. IIRC, RIPTA, NJT, and SEPTA were the only three systems in the US which operated the Volvos; RIPTA had the 40-ft buses, SEPTA and NJT had the artics.
SEPTA also has a 40-ft Volvo built to RIPTA specs (#8590) that was retired about two years ago, and I believe is presently being restored by the Wyoming Av shops as a historic vehicle. (The only other historic fleet vehicles that I know of at SEPTA are 1974 Flxible New Look #6569 and 35-ft RTS slopeback 4462(?). I heard rumors of a GM fishbowl being restored, but haven't confirmed that yet. Once it's retired, Neoplan #8698 is slated to be restored (8698 is still running).
Madison, Wisconsin also has at least 24 Scania CN-112's.
Maybe when you go to Stamford, you could head out from Hoboken to Suffern via NJT Pt Jervis line; take a TOR 59 bus to Spring Valley; then connect with the TZX1 to Tarrytown or White Plains; and head into Stamford via the I-Bus. When you're done in Stamford, take the K - Greenwich/Pt Chester bus to the end, and connect with the Bee-Line (again) back to NYC.
That would cover quite a few systems in one day.
Smart Idea, BUT on the "Mission Monday" it usually just one system for coverage for the day, and get to that city as fast as possible for huge coverage time. I usually pull out anywhere from 5am to 8am depending upon the city chosen for that day.
However once Mission Monday's slow down, I'll probably take you up on your advise for a multi-system coverage day!
Thanks
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
If getting there fast is important, why not just take MN?
Peace,
ANDEE
I know some time ago there was discussion here about the buses in the 1999 Nova RTS order being delivered with painted steel wheels and upper side destination signs, getting away from the lower side destination signs (1993 8401 & up) and aluminum wheels (1994 8600 & up) It was also mentioned that the TA would retrofit the TMC and Nova RTS buses with steel wheels, aesthetic advantages of the aluminum wheels not withstanding.
If this is old news I apologize, but it looks like the TA is starting to relocate the side destination signs on these buses as well. I just noticed today that MJQ 8606 and 8644, and HP 8490 have upper side destination signs now. I know there are always a few oddballs in each delivery, but I'm fairly sure they weren't delivered that way.
Add 8470 to that list also saw her on the M22 at 10:10p at Vesey/Bdwy by St Paul's Chapel.
8481 too. Heard that the high desitnation signs are better than the low signs and all buses will get the high signs too. Maybe it's a fact that in the front, you can't look out the window. Maybe that's the reason for the conversion. Yet it could also be that people bang their heads into the back of the sign-making it to malfunction. But I do expect this: Buses 9350-9699 and 4900-4987 when they go for their 3 year upgrade they will get the upper signs too. Any backup info to prove this correct would be greatly appreciated.
Q32#8481Gary
Q46#4913Gary
Driver complanded that they can't see people standing under the signs while in bus stops. I know this from exp. becouse I drove for 5 years out of UP & JG. I think that 8523 and two more out of JG have had there signs moved all ready.
Robert
The main problem is that when you are doing certain manuevers, you simply can't see either people or cars coming at you with that low sign. When I'm on the Q3, pulling out of the terminal, the bus is at an angle, so I need to turn my head to see what's coming down the street, because if I check the mirror, all I see is the terminal area. Also, in the airport, you have some merges where the cars come at you from the right side, and you really can't use your mirror to see cars coming out of a merge, so you have to turn your head, and that's where the sign get's in the way.
BIG AL
I came across a few pictures of some CTA GM New Looks, probably taken shortly before they were retired.
When I think about it, CTA's GM New Looks might just be my favorite buses of all time. The first transit bus I ever rode was a CTA New Look on the 146 route on a fateful summer day in 1993. Plus, CTA's New Looks really characterize the classic American city bus of the 20th century. CTA New Looks in the current paint scheme especially set my heart afire.
Here's what I know about CTA's GM's as far as the batches go:
100-249 - 1960 TDH 5301
300-449 - 1961 TDH 5301
800-804 - 1966 TDH 5303 (air conditioned)
1000-1524 - 1972 T8H 5307A
7400-7944 - 1974 T8H 5307A
9000-9599 - 1975 T8H 5307A
9600-9799 - 1976 T8H 5307A (9799 is the 14th to last US-made New Look)
I would very much like to know more details. Was there ever a point when ALL GM's were in service at once? This would mean 2175 GM's in service in addition to their Flxibles of the same era. I know CTA used to have more buses than they do today, but that seems like an awful lot.
Here are some specific questions:
- When were the last ones retired? This excluding the used Pace New Looks CTA used while the Green Line was closed. Were they retired in large blocks when new buses arrived, or were individual New Looks chosen to remain active while their brothers and sisters were retired?
- How many made it all the way to the end in the old paint scheme? How many were repainted? Were the repaints applied to random buses, or were there entire groups all repainted?
- How was the seating arrangement?
- Were the GM's well liked by operators and/or passengers?
- Was the a/c adequate? Also, the newer ones had V8 engines. Were they rockets?
- I've seen pictures of these buses in their early days when they sported non-openable windows. Were all CTA GM's delivered like this? Why and when was the modification made to the standard windows? (I think they look a lot better with the standard windows, but I'm just wondering.)
I would really appreciate any information and/or pictures on CTA's GM New Looks. I might also enjoy info on their Flxs, too.
Also, any info on when CTA switched to the current paint scheme and how other buses were repainted.
One more thing on the topic of CTA: Their newest buses are Nova LFS's. Are there any pics of these floating around?
Thanks all,
Neil
The two new routes will serve Tottenvile, Richmond Valley, Pleasant Plains, Woodrow and Rossville. Two private express routes are also part of the deal, no route info yet. The private routes will have Metrocard fareboxes but will not be DOT franchised. The S.I. Advance (true to form) has the routing wrong. I'm sure it should read Amboy Rd to Bloomingdale Rd to Woodrow Rd to Rossville Ave to Arthur Kill Rd to the West Shore Expwy, etc.
http://www.silive.com/news/advance/index.ssf?0123bus23.html
This means that more Express buses will be needed, meaning less new MCI's will be sent to Ulmer Park, meaning they will not be able to send the balance of the 9200 series Novas to Jamaica depot, meaning the people of S.E. Queens will still have to ride some old 3800 & 4800 buses on the expresses for a long time to come.
Unless, hell freezes over and the 38 & 4800's go to S.I. to serve on the new routes so the MCI's can keep coming to Ulmer Park and we wind up getting all the 9200's from Ulmer Park that we deserve to get. Anybody care to tell me the odds of that happening?
BIG AL
1 trillion to one. About the same odds as I have of going out with Tyra Banks.
Here's what's going to happen:
The 1700 and 1800's that just went away will mysteriously re-appear. The QV 17-1800's that no one can track down will soon sport "JA" instead of "QV" in the logo and the Orions that went to QV will return back to Castleton; in their place will be the 1979 RTS's that are sitting GBL's lot once their routes are taken over by the TA.
Yet again, Queens gets the shaft.
What's going to happen is this. A number of Jamaica's newest equipment is going to be melted down and made into deluxe bus shelters for the x21 & x22. But serously aren't there enough new MCI scheduled for delivery throughout 2001 as not to negatively impact Ulmer Park's MCIs or Jamaica's Novas?
70 mci buses are due in the second quarter of 2001. as of now they are scheduled to go to castleton and ulmer park. new routes will operate from yukon so there may be changes in these assignments. also nyct will not implement the service until may 2001.
Saw a copy of a John Deere hand out dated January 2001 ... besides the two QSC coaches:
- Atalanta, MARTA
- Calif, three cities: Palm Desert, San Bernadion & LA
Mr t__:^)
Guess QSC is not alone-and in my opinion, John Deere Buses are the best in the system. About a week ago, I got the priviledge to ride on the other John Deere Bus on the Q66: 404. What a great bus that was-despite going every 2 blocks from 114 St all the way down to 51 St-wanted to see how fast she could zip down Northern. Guess I got to wait till next time to find that out. BTW: More Q66s should be in service around 6-7 going towards 21 and 51 Streets-those trips are a torcher-buses are in the stepwell 9 times out of 10. Been on runs 129-131 on the Q66 to find that out. That's the main reason why I've been taking the Redbirds down below-especially that they've got 3 more trains added. (9536-9557) Also another point but this is on the Q104: Nobody on that route knows the code for Sunnyside. I've seen all of the buses that go via 48 St and all of them going to Queens Blvd Sunnyside either say:
Q104 11AV & 34 AV
ASTORIA
OR
Q104 11ST & 34 AV
Q104 ASTORIA
This is everyday! WASSUP with that?
Q66#404Gary
Q104#437Gary
PS If you never seen the John Deer Bus before, here are 3 pics that I've taken of bus 437. 404 will be coming soon.
IMAGE 1
IMAGE 2
IMAGE 3
ENJOY! HAVE A NICE DAY!
Gary, Nice shot of the rear ... almost a Subway Series wrap ;-)
Mr t__:^)
Thanks Thurston. Just hope for another Subway Series this year but with different results :)
METS IN 2001!
Q25#356Gary-I remember this bus had a half Met and half Yankee wrap back in '99?! Of course, I got the Met Side! :)
Re: Mets/Yanks yes I remember & one of the bosses here has examples of each on a model of an RTS ... the one also avail. form TA museum with a blue stripe.
P.S. Your thrid photo, from the rear & showing the right side ... what is that circular sticker for back of the door ? It's NOT the depot. 437 is outside my door purring like a kitten, as we speak, so that's how I know.
P.P.S. Last day before you go back to school ? My daughter goes back to Stoneybrook tomorrow.
Mr t__:^)
Nope, been back at school since January 18th. That sticker you see is the John Deere Logo. I believe the QS Logo is there too.
Q66#437Gary
Right ... they asked if they could put a couple of stickers on the two buses, we said yes.
Mr t__:^)
Sure wish I could ride one of the Deere buses. Man if they are better than series 50 they must be awesome!
Do they have a middle seat in the back?
I'm afraid that they do not. QS Buses 396-581 do not have a rear seat in the middle-reason is b/c of the DD50 Engine. 404 and 437 I believe have the DD50 and the John Deere in them too.
Q66#396Gary
Sure wish they'd test them out at LIB. My dream would be that the Cummins L10G powered Orions would get new Deere engines. Of course if they just got Series 50 from DD that would also make my day. The Cummins shall die! No more noisy, slow, jerky rides on those horrible Cummins! Sabatoge has crossed my mind! :-o
Anything to get rid of those Cummins engines. Those Cummins we have should be going, resting in a heap of garbage at the dump!
Does anyone have an up to date roster of the 3 divisions.
NE Trans does a roster,,but it is very very tiny and not updated
Thank you
Steve
I think we found a winner in the 1982 Suburban RTS Contest: The winner IS: 1751! Why do I say that she's the winner? Well, 1826 is in storage, 1767, 1773 and 1852 have NOT been seen by me or anybody since the Orion Suburbans have arrived-same goes for 3807, 3818 and 3824, AND because 1751 was on the Q46 today. I saw her going to LIJ Hospital while waiting for a Queens Blvd Q46 to arrive-got 4917. So whoever picked 1751 as the winner-congratulations. But QV Bus OP must give us the final proof that 1751 is the ONLY 1982 RTS SUBURBAN in there OPERATING in revenue service. The prize will be thought up of and will be known soon. Thanks for participating all!
Q46#1751Gary
Oh yeah? When did PA1826 go into storage? The last I heard it was at HP and was operating about two weeks ago. Besides, just because you don't see a bus doesn't mean that they're gone, even if their kind is becoming extinct. Case in point, Houston 1982 RTS buses 1976 and 1982 were MIA for months but are both still in active service. PA1767 is still at QV and probably works the Q46 as well.
That is, N20 is better than N21. Case in point, PM rush service today. While waiting in Great Neck, every N20 I saw was a new Series 50 bus, except for one, which was a 6V-92 diesel. But the N21, well that was a different story. Flushing-bound, they had the new buses. But eastbound, it was all Cummins. I despise the Cummins so much I avoid riding them, but eventually I had to, the second N21 to Glen Cove was a Cummins and 20 minutes late (N20's were on time).
Also for every N21 there are two N20s to Hicksville, the N20 runs more often than the N21.
Earlier I took an N21 to Roslyn, went to the library than got an N20 to Great Neck. The N21 was a new bus, and so was the N20 (288).
The N20 was crowded but there was a different crowd. There were actually normal people on there, versus the scruffy lowlifes that ride the N21.
The Series 50 did quite well on that hill after Community drive, even with a full load.
So I wonder why the N21 gets a different (worse) crowd and the worse buses? I guess it just goes to show you that N20 is better than N21.
Maybe when going home next time I'll take an N20 to Greenvale, then a 27 back home. I'd do it, just to avoid a long ride on the Cummins!
<<>>
Now, I've been a bus operator going on 7 years, but maybe I still don't get it. If the new buses are going to Flushing, then shouldn't these same buses wind up going east bound again? And the east bound Cummins, shouldn't they originally have been going westbound?
Also, just a side note about these so called "crappy Cummins" I keep hearing about. 3 weeks ago when I was on the Q3 in the airport, I was running with an N91, a diesel Orion with a number in the 100 series I believe. I suspect this was one of those buses with the "crappy Cummins". I had a 1996 RTS, an 8900 to be specific, the fastest RTS bus NYCT is using, in my opinion. We both left a bus stop at the same time and got on the JFK Expressway and the "crappy Cummins" totally blew me away and made me look like I was driving a slow moving trolley car!
BIG AL
Many N21's become N20's and vice-versa when they go to and then leave Flushing. I think they're called "swing runs".
As far as the Cummins 100 series LI Bus beating you, maybe your bus had a governor. Or maybe it wasn't being kept up right?
The NYC buses I've been are pretty quick, except for the 6V-92 Orions.
LI Buses don't have governors like NYC buses do, so they generally can attain higher speeds.
[Many N21's become N20's and vice versa.... I think they're called "swing runs"....]
Actually, that phenomenon is an example of "interlining"; i.e. N20 and N21 are scheduled together for efficiency. Other examples of combined schedules include N40/41, N54/55, Bx1/2, Bx25/26, Bx40/42, M34/16, M50/27, S55/56, S66/67, X1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9. A run on one of these could easily entail arriving at a terminal on one route and "changing" to the other.
An exception is the Q44/20: any bus arriving in Jamaica as a Q44 will leave as a Q44, and any bus arriving as a Q20 (A or B branch) will leave as a Q20. That minimizes the impact on Main Street local service when there are problems on the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge.
How do the M16/M34 interline if they don't have a common terminal at either end? I assume that interlining can be done only when there is a common terminal between the two routes at at least one end.
At one point the overnight M34/M16 bus operated as an M16 BUT terminated at 34th & 1st, so it was possible for that driver to become an M34. Not sure if that's still the case.
I've also seen N27 buses going to Glen Cove, become N21 buses going to Flushing, during the rush hour.
Those N27s are probably pull outs from Mitchell Field that the y schedule to go up there in service to glen cove to work the 21, in stead of deadheading there, they make them 27 trips.
I would suspect they might do that on pull in trips also. Instead of having 21's run off such a long way, put them in revenue service and make a few extra bucks for the county.
***Flushing-bound, they had the new buses. But eastbound, it was all Cummins.***
Now, I've been a bus operator going on 7 years, but maybe I still don't get it. If the new buses are going to Flushing, then shouldn't these same buses wind up going east bound again? And the east bound Cummins, shouldn't they originally have been going westbound?
Also, just a side note about these so called "crappy Cummins" I keep hearing about. 3 weeks ago when I was on the Q3 in the airport, I was running with an N91, a diesel Orion with a number in the 100 series I believe. I suspect this was one of those buses with the "crappy Cummins". I had a 1996 RTS, an 8900 to be specific, the fastest RTS bus NYCT is using, in my opinion. We both left a bus stop at the same time and got on the JFK Expressway and the "crappy Cummins" totally blew me away and made me look like I was driving a slow moving trolley car!
BIG AL
Just to add while I like RTS better than Orions, it seems Orions have the edge when it comes to speed.
While I was reading SEPTA's FYI2000 packet thing, I found some pictures of the new SEPTA low floors. They are quite different. From ctrabs's website, these buses have rear destinatation signs. Also, from the picture, the bus has windows that actually open at the top, which is very different from the past SEPTA buses in the last two decades. I also have to admit it looks beautiful in the SEPTA paint scheme, but the stripe seems to be too small. But maybe it is the right size. Also, does this bus have rooftop airconditioning or rear? I mean, in the picture, I couldn't see the rooftop airconditioning unit at all! I know this is just a picture and not an actual photo, but SEPTA isn't going to go to rear airconitioning again, is it? Also, where is the box for the diesel hybird junk?
Do the New Flyers have black trim around the windows (like the NABI's) or is it just white (like the Neoplans)? How is the door configuration?
Also, SEPTA -better- have roof-mounted air conditioning on these buses! SEPTA is the king of roof-mounted, and New Flyer offers this as a standard option. There is no reason for these buses NOT to have roof-mounted a/c!
>>Also, SEPTA -better- have roof-mounted air conditioning on these buses!<<
I agree with you right there, in fact, every bus should have roof-mounted A/C (I would like to see an MCI MC9 or a 96 or 102A3, C3, D3, DL3 with roof-mounted A/C).
Actually there is a few 96-A3s running around with Roof mount Sutrak A/C units, I had the pleasure of seeing one on the turnpike in South Jersey. It was a white bus with the Hausman MCI logo on it.
After calling down to MCI after seeing that bus, I was told that there was like 10 of the 96-A3s running like. The company that took those 10 buses, wanted roof mount HVACs on them, so Hausman did a retorfit on them
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The buses are just white like the Neoplans. Also, the door configuration is the same as all New Flyer low floors-3 windows in front, two in the back. Also, the reason why they may not have roof a/c is because they have the diesal/hybird unit on top I think. However, SEPTA still should have the roof-top ac somehow.
Okay, I just found out that only 12 low floors have the diesel/hybird technology. Hopefully, all of them will have the rooftop a/c.
These are not the 12 that will have the diesel/electric hybrid technology. That is a separate order (DE40LF) which will see those buses arrive in 2 years. This is the regular order for 200 D40LF.
I just hope that SEPTA will not turn into a New Flyer agency. I guess Neoplans and new Flyers, as well as other buses, would be a good fleet.
What's teh matter with a New Flyer agency ,I for one is glad to see the TA get New Flyers for transit service instead of RTS's .Not to knock RTS's but after 15-20 yrs it was time to make the fleet some what diverse.I mean even Boston got the message with NABI's.
Well, I guess some other foreign agency can be New Flyer, but I like Neoplans better. When I first saw a New Flyer bus, I was horrified at it's design. However, I grew accustomed to it. However, I still like the design of Neos, and don't forget variety.
The comment about the rear destination sign was what someone else reported to me via email last week. I have yet to see 5401, but hope to do so soon.
This afternoon, I made a very spontaneous trip to Lansing, Michigan. On my approach, I was pleasantly surprised to see an RTS-II (CATA #309, 1979 RTS-03 original to Lansing) in service on busy Route 1. A good sign to see a 22-year old bus doing an all-day base block on the heaviest route in the system.
I parked at a strange-looking parking structure in East Lansing, descended to street level and moseyed to a nearby bus stop. I peered east down Grand River Avenue, and I saw that several RTS's were headed my way. The first was CATA #319, an original-to-CATA RTS-04 from 1983. Then, from a distance, the next approaching RTS appeared to have a four-digit fleet number. Yes, yes it did. In fact, it was 1839. 1839? That's odd. Wait a second. That RTS also has push-out, white-framed back doors. Are those tall, blue vinyl-padded seats? IS THIS A RETIRED NEW YORK BUS?!? I did the math, and all signs pointed to YES. It even had a decommissioned Luminator-Gultan ODK.
I continued to explore the CATA system. I waited for several buses to pass on Route 1 until an eventful bus came. The same 309 I had seen before screeched to a stop and I got on. In downtown Lansing, there were several more ex-NYC buses. Some of them had the transit seating configuration, some had the suburban arrangement. Now, Lansing probably has to be one of the smallest cities in the country with buses with a 2+1 seating arrangement!
In short, my findings were these:
NYC 1697 operating as CATA 328, both fleet numbers displayed on the interior.
1835, 1836, 1839, 1840 wearing NYC fleet numbers inside and out. CATA colors on the exterior, NYC interiors, both standard transit and suburban 'soft-seat.'
There may be more. CATA has a sizable number of 40-foot RTS's numbered in the 330's and 340's which are obviously second-hand, but not all of these have NYC characteristics. I'm not sure where they are from.
Here is the CATA roster -excluding- the NYC buses. All buses original to CATA are air-conditioned and wheelchair accessible. Also, all CATA buses have cameras on the rear conntected to monitors so the driver can see behind the bus.
300-316
1979 GMC RTS T8H 203
a/c 'cap' on the rear is quite obvious
A few still have rollsigns, most have been retrofitted with Vultron Transdot signs. All-original interiors in need of some attention. Not sure how many are in service, 303 305 308 309 311 313 315 observed 23.January.01.
317-323
1983 GMC RTS T80 204
Cleaner and in better condition than their 1979 counterparts. I cannot find these on any production lists, so they might be used.
324-327
1983 GMC RTS T7J 204
In good condition.
400-409
1988 Flxible Metro B 40102-6-1
Starting to fall apart. All of these buses were in excellent condition when I was in Lansing in late 1999.
410-418
1990 Flxible Metro B 40102-6-1
450-461
1988 Flxible Metro B 30102-6-1
Cute little Flxies used on light routes.
470-473
1990 Flxible Metro B 35102-6-1
Used interchangibly with other Flxibles.
500-509
1996 New Flyer D40LF
Same destination signs as WMATA 4200's. Very comfortable seats, although interiors are discouragingly vandalized and dirty. Rear-mounted a/c.
.
.
Your Great Lakes Transit Correspondant,
Neil
The CT Transit web site states that an RFP is being issued for the purchase of 1 to 3 diesel/hybrid buses. The full specs are at the CT Transit web site:
http://www.cttransit.com/content/procurements.asp
I found this posted on bus 1066 on the M86 this morning:
It seems like yesterday this bus was the M-Seventeen,
And twenty-one years ago I met the man of my dreams.
Now it is called the M-Seventy-nine,
And for twenty years that guy has been mine.
Each year I've said thanks to the NY-MTA
And count my lucky stars he was going my way!
I love New York! Happy Anniversary!
XOXXX!
No mention of how the M79 is now one of the slowest buses on earth thanks to those Artics? I would say that has been the biggest change other than the change from M17 to M79.
Yeah, but that only gives you even more time to strike up a conversation with a member of the opposite sex, not to mention the fact that you can be all the way in the back, where the driver can't see you...
I never thought of the M79 as a chick magnet line. Hmmm....
Like the drivers cared in the first place...
"Yeah, but that only gives you even more time to strike up a conversation with a member of the opposite sex, not to mention the fact that you can be all the way in the back, where the driver can't see you..."
We see everything. From the coffee cup stuffed into the window ledge, the tissues stuffed between the seats, the "tobbaco exchanging" in the rear seating area, the mail opened and discarded, the empty metrocards inadvertantly dropped, the unfinished breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks accidentally left behind, and more :-)
Anyway, that was a beautiful tribute. Reminds me of a very old song called "Bus Stop". I wonder how many recall that song? It was from sometime during the 60's, I believe.
QV
Anyway, that was a beautiful tribute. Reminds me of a very old song called "Bus Stop". I wonder how many recall that song? It was from sometime during the 60's, I believe.
The Hollies, 1966, 13 years before I was born but hardly "very old." The same vintage, in fact, of some Flxible New Looks the MTA just bought from some South American country to replace Jamaica's 5100s ;)
I'd say the biggest change to the M79 was around 1990 or 1991 when it switched depots. A mainstay of Flxible New Looks suddenly became a mainstay of GMC New Looks. The GMC's seemed very out-of-place until they were retired a few years later. (They also made my M104-to-M79 commute quite boring, as both ran out of the same depot.)
Two announcements:
1. I have started a new mailing list to discuss transit issues and system in the Northeast (Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York City, New York State, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, and Washington, DC). The URL to sign up is:
http://www.egroups.com/group/northeastbus
2. In the past few weeks, I have added several rosters to my web site: Included are NYC Transit (1960-1979 and 1980-present; pre-1960 is ongoing); MBTA (includes serial #s); Lowell, Merrimack Valley, Brockton, and Southeastern (New Bedford/Fall River) RTAs; RIPTA; and Delaware. I am working on Connecticut DOT and Bridgeport rosters as I speak. The URL for my web site is:
http://www.geocities.com/ctrabs74
Enjoy!
Very nice work on the roster page! This will prove to be a great resource. I e-mailed RIPTA last week to get more info on the current fleet, but no response so far; I'll pass along anything I find out.
I haven't been aroud here ofr a while soi do not know if this was mention yet. I was on the B103 this morning when i saw an posting announcing new schedules for the routes. it also mention tht as of feb 4,2001 coomand would no longer make any trips the the aqueduct race track any more. I was wondering if the lagging sevie or possible bidding on these routes had anything to do with it.
CBL didn't have schedules posted for the racetrack services at its website for quite some time.
Wonder if the Belmont Fryer incident had anything to do with the decision.
I would say the fact that those routes did not take MetroCard had a lot to do with it. Command got in trouble a few years ago when MetroCard was first used on their buses. Somebody was pocketing the cash.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
transitworld.org
this service has been in effect for 40 years. who if anyone will take it over or is this another nail in the coffin of belmont aqueduct,etc.
My friend at Command said the city might take it over.
Peace,
Kevin
Which racetrack would this be? Reason I ask is because I saw Command 472 on BQE East at Broadway headed to Yonkers Raceway.
((Which racetrack would this be? Reason I ask is because I saw Command 472 on BQE East at Broadway headed to Yonkers Raceway.))
All of the routes. Also many drivers at Command are pissed because the racetrack and special runs was their overtime.
Peace,
Kevin
[...the city might take it over.]
"The city" (meaning DOT) has already been paying Command's bills for the specials. Remember that everything is cost-plus, meaning that DOT reimburses ALL costs and then adds the guaranteed profit margin. Thus, killing the specials must have been DOT's move, not Command's.
I trust that the discontinuation also applies to the BQ12 (Shea Stadium) as well as the BQ5/10/11 (Aqueduct & Belmont), BMJ1/2 (Meadowlands) and BW4 (Yonkers).
I meant New York City Transit.
Peace,
Kevin
[city takeover (NYC Transit taking over Command's racetrack specials...)]
I severely doubt it. That's a huge expense to incur for a handful of riders. By contrast, the promotional X80 and X81 routes which operate for events at Randalls Island serve a mass-mobility function and are very well used because there's so little parking near Downing Stadium.
----
BTW, as part of the MTA, NYCT is actually a STATE agency (in spite of its name).
In fact, it does state on Command's website:
"The Department of Transportation of the City of New York has notified Command Bus Company to discontinue all bus service to Aqueduct Raceway, Belmont Park, Meadowlands Raceway, Yonkers Raceway, and Shea Stadium. This will be effective with the close of Business on Sunday, February 4, 2001.
"Commend (sic) Bus Company would like to extend our appreciation to our passengers who have utilized these services and for their many years of patronage."
does anyone know the reasoning for this end to a 45 year practice. is giuliani after the race tracks now as he is the port authority.
Is this going to include Yonkers,the Meadowlands and Shea Stadium as well.
Story in the Daily Snews. "That's why most of us drive cars."
Can you say NNNN IIII MMMM BBBB YYYY ?
More like NOTSIFOMY (Not on the Street in Front of My House!)
BTW, check out The NIMBY Song at kurumi.com. :)
As long as nobody here goes BANANA's.
Oops, I just realized that my acronym assumes "house" begins with a Y, and last time I checked, it didn't... make that Not on the Street in front of my yard.
This item appeared in the December 2000 NYC Transit Committee Agenda
What a bunch of snobby-ass NIMBY's!! NYC streets are public streets and the bus can run anywhere it damn wants to!!!
Well, no... the bus can run wherever the MTA wants it to go, provided the community boards approve the route. The NOTSIFOMYs will probably win on this one.
All likelyhood not as according to the Daily News,the TA is still going ahead with the rt extension in March.Also what a bunch of hypocrits ,where were these people when the 44B(and 71 for 1 day) when it ran into that neighborhood(Malba).Or have they forgotten .
There are two ways to look at this:
1- The overwhelming "NIMBY" reply, which I tend to agree with (reasons below).
2- The "strong-arming" of the TA doing what it wants regardless of the people they claim to "service" (more below).
Firstly, I can understand the owners of $900,000 homes not wanting a bus sitting in front of their gardens. The reason these homes are so expensive is because they are secluded from the city "hustle-and-bustle", and they enjoy their peace and quiet. That's why they paid so much for their homes- to live in the city with as much "country" as possible. Buses, somehow, detract from that peaceful scenery.
Secondly, as a BO, I know full-well what some bus operators "do" at terminal locations. Especially in secluded residential areas. I'm speaking of the lack of toilet facilities. Without getting into the morality issue here, it's suffice to say, there are some very disgusting BO's around, and they will do what needs to be done, regardless of the situation. The alternative is to remove the bus from service. A point-for the community asociation trying to prevent this from happening.
Lastly, the MTA and TA is in the business of service. When implementing such service into an area that doesn't warrant it, it's no longer "providing service", but strongarming a community and holding it hostage to their own agenda under the guise of "added service". The reasons here are very clear- the bus operators face a dangerous (as written in the article, I'm not familiar with the area) turn at the current terminal or route. I'm all for a safer route, but not at the expense of a community. There must be another way.
Of course there are new "Clean Air" regulations that prohibit buses from idling. There are sanitary code laws. There are littering laws, pollution laws, and there are noise pollution laws. The reality of it all is- during winter months, most buses will idle to keep them warm. During the summer months, most buses will idle to keep them cool. The newer buses are much louder than the older buses. There are no public facilities in private residential communities. Simply, I understand the NIMBY argument here, as well as I undestand the current terminal situation. The solution is a third alternative, whatever it is.
This community does not warrant extra service. It doesn't even want the service. There are many residential communities that do indeed have a bus terminus, however those communities are serviced by demand. This community will be serviced and "be dammed".
As an aside, Queens Village Deopt was approved by the CB under certain circumstances. Two of them included:
1- All buses must be stored indoors.
2- Only the Q-2 may run-on south via 222nd Street.
If any of you are familiar with QV depot, you are fully aware of the reality of the situation.
QV
I completely agree that the TA shouldn't "strong-arm" its way into a neighborhood that doesn't want bus service, for the obvious reason that there will be no ridership. The case here, though, is the extension of an existing bus route by a few blocks to avoid a dangerous turn (I'm not familiar with the current turn, either, but I've been to the neighborhood a couple of times and don't see why 3 Ave is so much better than 7 Ave). I found protestors wearing gas masks coupled with the statement "That's why most of us drive cars" very amusing.
I didn't think about the sanitary faciliy issue...
well this reminds me of the s61 route in 1988 when it was first established on staten island. on sundays the neighborhood would all come out to make a fuss and stop the bus. they had all kinds of reasons for not wanting a bus. after several months everything calmed down when the police dept agreed to look the other way at the illegally parked cars in the stops. this still goes on to this day and these same residents now love the 61 and the x31.
The protests were rediculous. The buses were crowded with neighborhood residents from day one, and is one of the heaviest routes.
-Hank
I'm waiting for some people on Bloomingdale Road to start complaining about the x21 & x22.
Actually, I'm surprised they'll put a route on Bloomingdale, because of the intersection at Amboy Rd.
-Hank
Coming from Tottenville, Amboy Road leads into Bloomingdale Road, but most cars make the right onto Amboy. It's just one of many lousy intersections on S.I. It makes sense that the midtown-bound x21 & x22 will pass by many of the new housing developments along Bloomingdale Road & Woodrow Road. There's no choice down there but to place the routes on residential streets. I don't think there were too many complaints when the x7 & x8 were routed along Leverett Avenue. But Leverett is wider than Bloomingdale Road is in many places. But what about service to downtown from the south shore?
hopefully there will be service to downtown via gowanus and midtown via lincoln tunnel. you may remember a route called the x30. it ran through foster road. the route failed because it was a midtown route using the gowanus. hopefully these new routes will be planned properly.
Have these routes been presented to the MTA Boards
I have not seen them written up in any agenda Notes
Steve
no not yet but staten island advance published the routing last tuesday. lateset word from nyct is that routes will be operative by summer or fall picks if not before. also pataki is trying to give money to a private operator for two other routes skirting the franchise issue.
the items have to go before the Board ---when they are published ,,I will advise
I usually find this info in the Agenda of the Transit Committee --NYC Transit
Cam you semd me the articles
thanks
Steve
i will post the routing tomorrow. i can send you atricles if you tell me where to send.
Steve Lowenthal
FDNY
216 North Fulton Av
Fleetwood NY 10552
Thank you
sorry i meant articles. i think atricles are a heart muscle. my mistake.
you mean atricles or arterioles
steve
FDNY--EMT
From the SI Advance (article available at SILIVE.COM): [I added the part the Advance left out; Amboy doesn't cross Woodrow]
One of the two new MTA routes will be the X21, starting from Pleasant Plains at Bloomingdale and Amboy roads, traveling up Amboy [to Foster Rd] to Woodrow Road, then across Rossville Avenue to Arthur Kill Road to the West Shore Expressway. The other route, the X22, will run from Tottenville, starting at Craig Avenue and Amboy Road, travel up Amboy to Bloomingdale Road and then follow the X21 route.
The routes will serve Tottenville, Richmond Valley, Pleasant Plains, Rossville and Woodrow. Together, the two routes will make 36 daily trips into and out of the city via the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge and the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel. Fossella said MTA officials are now trying to decide whether the routes should be run over the Goethals Bridge to New Jersey and through the Lincoln Tunnel instead. But those details, as well as an exact schedule and Manhattan stops, are still being hammered out. Both routes will run in Midtown via the FDR Drive and will be in service only during peak periods, from 5:30 to 9 a.m. and 3 to 7:30 p.m.
Foster Road is the only routing for this that makes sense, unless the Advance REALLY screwed up, and the bus will go up Bloomingdale instead of Amboy. The Advance definately left a street out of the routing.
-Hank
Thanks ,Hank
I am looking forward to seeing the complete articles
Steve
I'm not all that familiar with bus operations, but -- if the only issue is Malba residents not wanting busses parked and idling in their neighborhood -- it would seem that among the obvious solutions would be for the busses to use the planned route through Malba only to turn around, but to lay up and idle when necessary only at the current origin/terminus points. No passengers would be carried or picked up beyond the current origin/terminus.
If the Malba residents are simply opposed to busses running on their streets at all, I'm more inclined to tell them to go pound sand.
CG
[If the Malba residents are simply opposed to buses running on their streets....]
They are. They claim to object to bus "idling" (i.e. layover), knowing* that there's NO LAYOVER scheduled at the Malba end of the route. All layover is in Flushing.
The issue at the current terminal (Clintonville Street & 7th Avenue) is a dangerously tight U-turn around a very small triangular patch of dirt in the middle of a three-way intersection.
* Courts have consistently ruled that being "in a position to know something" is equivalent to actually knowing it. In this case, the NIMBY-ists SHOULD know (by looking at the schedule for the route in question) - and thus DO know - that the layovers they're complaining about are not even there.
Two comments:
-----
[...the bus can run wherever the MTA wants it to go....]
True. Both New York City Transit and Long Island Bus - as MTA operating agencies - have authority to operate on ANY bus-capable street anywhere in the 12-county MTA district.
-----
[...provided the community boards approve the route.]
Not quite. The Community Board's role is purely ADVISORY - it can't actually approve or veto proposed bus routes, sidewalk cafes, high-rise buildings, or anything else. All it can do is endorse or oppose. The CB's recommedation is only one consideration in the decision-making process.
I rode this bus yesterday on the Q60 and boy what a dog this bus was.
This bus was not only blowing smoke but she was not going over 20 mph
and making a very funny noise accelerating-sounded like suction. Also a weird note for a GBL Orion bus was that she had white wheels instead of the aluminum wheels that she usually has. Today I had 1151-much better bus than 5540 but just her appearance was horrible looking.
Q60#1151Gary
That's just horrible. Whenever I'm in NYC and I see the GBL Orions I'm just amazed at how they look. Their 200 sisters that were lucky enough to go on to WMATA work hard but they seem to be in much better shape.
Wayne
Here's another 1 for ya: I saw 5531 last night on the Q60-supporting just the # 31 in the front. I was on 1151 today-interior # said 115. I guess they slowed 5540 down to crack on speeding because today mad tickets were given to cars and walkers on Queens Blvd today. Boy is Queens Blvd a disaster-traffic cops and NYPD cops all over the strip. I understand they want to slow the traffic down but this is a bit over the edge. The Pike-to the subway is my way to go now! BEST ADVICE: NOT IN A HURRY? TAKE QUEENS BLVD!
Q46#8387Gary
This morning the radio reported that an accident had closed the Bronx-bound Whitestone Bridge. As the Whitestone Expressway runs right behind my house, a quick look out the window beared this out: traffic completely stopped, people standing outside their vehicles, a steady stream of confused motorists coming up my block in search of alternate routes.
What happens to bus routes that go over bridges if the bridge is closed? The Q44 and QBX1 both have very heavy Queens-to-Bronx ridership in the morning. I doubt a long detour through local streets to the Throgs Neck would be implemented. True, the vast majority of QBX1s operate strictly in the Bronx as Co-op-City to Pelham Bay shuttles, so they could conceivably deadhead over the Throgs.
In my walk to the Flushing subway, I didn't see a Q44 going in either direction. There were huge lines waiting for both buses Bronx-bound at their respective stands on Main Street. No dispatchers were in sight. Fortunately, the Q20A and B duplicate the 44 to Jamaica.
You have to feel sorry for all the people who were late for work or to the two Catholic high schools on the Bronx side which draw a lot of Queens students. Furthermore, many people ride the 44 entirely within the Bronx between the subways and a large industrial area near where the bridge touches down. It really acts as the Cross-Bronx crosstown in a way.
It's a very big risk having to commute by bus between land masses. If either the Midtown Tunnel or Queensboro were closed, there's subway alternates. The Triboro and Battery really don't have viable bus alternates, but the Verrazano does have an extra level. Of course, the effects of a closure on alternate crossings would make walking the best option.
I was on the Q44 in the other direction this morning, and a woman listening to a portable radio heard the announcement and alerted the driver. I don't know what happened to the route, though.
I sure they could organize an alternative, but by time it's implemented the bridge probably would've been open again. I could see them perhaps discharging in say Flushing and deadheading some buses to the Bronx over the Throgs Neck or even the Triboro to rescue some of those stranded folks trying to get to Queens. Ideally the route between Flushing and Whitestone could be covered but, the streets probably was clogged with traffic scrambling for alternate routes.
Wayne
I believe 44s could be sent over the Throgs Neck with prior permission from MTA B and T. The Supt in the Command Center would probably make this happen.
Why deahead them to the bronx??? They are going to get stuck in the same traffic as a bus in service.. Load em up an ship em out over the Throgs.
The Throgs Neck was almost as bad as the Whitestone that morning. When I came to work that day traffic in the area streets was all messed up to.
Mr t__:^)
The Q44 was detoured via the Throgs Neck in passenger service. I heard the detour over the bus radio, but because it didn't concern my route, and because I was driving in service, I didn't pay too much attention to the details.
Subway related but I think that somehow the G should go to LGA, then to the Bronx. Then the G would be a real crosstown line!
see
http://www.egroups.com/group/NYCBUSBLINDS
join and get involved
lots of news items
Steve
FDNY
Hello everyone; I am looking to purchase a Flxible Metro, preferably an A or B model. If anyone knows of any transit agencies putting any up for bid in the near future, please contact me and let me know what the ballpark bids are, running gear type, etc. Thanks to all!
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
I am not to sure but I think NJ Transit or some of the IBOA's around northern New Jersey might be having some A's up for auction as those are the only ones that have been removed from service.
NJT's Metro-As are long gone (1300-1464) - they were 1983s (replaced by the 1996 Nova RTS order). The recently retired Flxibles were the 1980 rehabbed NYCTA 870s. NJT will retire their 1989 Flxible Metro-B models in about 2-3 years.
on route 9 in new jersey just south of 440, a few miles perhaps is an outfit with plenty of these for sale. i saw one today but it might be a grumman. anyway they have lots of old buses. if you come from n.y. its on the right side. i dont know the condition of these buses.
North County Transit District in Oceanside, California just retired some recently.
I witnessed the above-referenced bus in "Training Bus" service, traveling westbound on E.49th in Manhattan. It had the exhaust stack going through the roof and the engine sounded the same as the newest RTS buses in the 8500-9000 series. Is bus #4916 a brand new bus or has it been re-built?
4900s are the newest RTSs (1999); 8000s and 9000s are 1991-8. See roster at TransiTALK Internation.
(No charge for the plug :) ).
Good HTML in this one...
4900s are the newest RTSs (1999); 8000s and 9000s are 1991-8. See roster at TransiTALK International.
(No charge for the plug :) ).
Two 1989 Gilligs were prowling along Tuckerman Lane this morning. It is about time we got our real buses back!
Also, 5410 was on the 47, 5701 was on the 46, and I ran out of film.
You guys are glad to have Gillags back?LIbus was glad to get rid of thiers.
As of Sunday, Jan. 14, LI Bus still had a number of Gilligs stored in their rear yard at Mitchel Field though they are no longer in service. Don't know how long they will be there or if they are still there.
Compared to what was on the route before? The 37 was run by ATE/Ryder for the last 15 months and service was really bad. Also, I never have had a problem with the Gilligs.
It's great that you guys finally got to see those buses in service again. However, Ride-On has been operating those buses on the 16 for a while now. Do you know where all the 1991 Orion Is went though? I never see them anymore! Or are they all up in Rockville?
I don't know. I have never taken the 16. It goes from Silver Spring to Langley Park, right?
Yeah, and now on weekdays it goes to Tacoma. Also, the 15, 17, and 18 go from Silver Spring to Langly Park. The 18 is run by mini-buses.
I don't know. I have never taken the 16. It goes from Silver Spring to Langley Park, right?
I have ridden Orion Is on the 42. Not often though.
I used to ride the 1985 Orion Is on the 46 all the time, and then they got the 1991 Orion Is in Silver Spring.
Are the '91 Orions those with the large destination sign? I saw one of them (#5542) on route 12 last week.
Wayne
I think those are the '92 Orions. The 91 Orions are the ones that have the electric signs and a/c in the back, but don't have the big destination signs.
The Orion's with the big destination signs are on the 92, among other routes. I've also seen them on the 38, but I think most are on the northern (43-93) routes.
Yeah I know they were in upper county, but a few of them (I think approx 5539-5543) are operating in lower county. I've never ridden them but, I see them regularly when I'm in Silver Spring.
Wayne
I've never seen one in service in Silver Spring, though. I've seen just about every bus that Ride-On has except for those Flxibles (gotta be on those Rockville Routes) and Orion VIs (Rockville again). When I saw the 35ft Orion Vs, they were extrememly rare. I also never saw a CNG Ride-On bus (Rockville? I think so). I miss those TMC city cruisers. I loved that hollow sound they made with the engine. Whatever happened to them?
The Flx 40 footer I saw, 5701, is out of the Shady Grove lot. The only time I've seen it was way back in July on the 46 going south on 355. The CNG buses come out of the Shady Grove lot as well since that's where their CNG refueling facility is. I visited that lot about 4 years ago, right when they received their first batch of 35 foot CNG's. I see the Orion VI floating around up there, too.
I keep seeing random WMATA buses around my place in Arlington, too. I saw 9314, normally a Bladensburg bus, coming up Glebe Rd. Out of Service, one day last week and saw 9229, usually out of Montgomery, on a tow truck near the Ballston Station. I also saw 9278, which I thought is out of Landover laying over at the Ballston Station terminal on Saturday and 9831, which is also out of Montgomery was on the 24M heading to the Pentagon. Very odd seeing a suburban-seat style bus used on such a small route like the 24M. Maybe they're getting rotated while other buses get rehabbed.
I think WMATA is shifting buses around. I've been seeing many stray 87XX & 88XX series Flxible Metros in Montgomery Division routes. About 30 minutes ago I saw 4047 on Wilson Blvd in Rosslyn. Is 4047 assigned to Arlington Division?
Wayne
I noticed a bunch of 87xx and 88xx's too, when I was at the Glenmont station a couple of weeks ago.
I believe 4047 comes out of Four Mile Run. I saw 4049 on the 23C heading to Shirlington tonight and it had the "F" for Four Mile Run on the run number.
I am scanning photos from my NYC trip last month and I am noticing all the buses have an AOL ad on the front. Is this really true? I do have photos of other advertisers (an Orion on the M1 about 7 months ago with an ad for "Big Brother") but nothing from my last trip.
The front ads get changed often. The majority of NYCT buses recently have been carrying the AOL front ad as well as MTA LI Bus.
Front ads are being changed right now as AOL is being replaced by NY1 News. It seems as though those two have been dominant on the front of NYCT and LI buses.
Mark
If anybody remembers, ads for Mays Dept.Stores were the norm in the early 70's
And if you went to San Francisco in the 60's and 70's, you'd think the name of the transit comapny was "Pepsi". Every piece of bus and trolley coach equipment had the huge, raised Pepsi bottle cap logo on them.
LIKE THIS?
Peace,
ANDEE
Yup. 'Zackly!!! The bigbottle cap bolted to the front of the bus.
mays dept store were the first front bus ads in the 1960s when ads were placed on the first new look buses of 1959 vintage. mci cruisers do not have any front ads. ads were first placed on rts buses fronts in 1995.
NYCT RTS buses had front ads since they came into service in 1981. The front ads disappeared for a few years during the 90's. The original ads were the place-card type as used on the newlooks.
Yeah - Remember when those ad racks were also on the rear of the RTS?
Wayne
I had noticed that myself.
About a year or so ago, there were a lot of front ads for CBS 2. It seems to be in phases, I guess.
In addition to a ton of AOL front ads, ISTR seeing quite a few for NY1, which is - coincidentially - part of the AOL/Time Warner group.
When it comes to bus advertising (or streetcars in the old days), the front of the bus is "Prime Real Estate" when it comes to people visibility. I had to laugh at those CBS 2 ads on the front of NYCT buses a few years ago. They were trying to make the name and face of Stephen Clark a household name! He was a NY unknown. Now he's gone. Now if ABC 7 plastered Bill Beutels name and mug in the front to the buses, well everybody knows him, especially those 3 ex wives!
Beutel is a legend. Leave him alone! Nobody will save CBS2 news.
No argument there.
I remember for a time that when the RTS started coming into major service, front ads were not a part of the NYCTA. They were a staple of the old Flxible and GM of the 1970's - but it was not until the 1990's that ads returned in force to that front spot.
Ads also took a while to get on the back of the bus. I remember that they tried to install a "rack" (or whatever you call that metal thing that houses ads on subways and old buses) on the RTS'. In Flushing (Stengel) it was either bus PA 1527, 1528 and/or 1529 that had the rack on the bottom of the base of the black air conditioning unit (which they could do because those buses did not have the digital destination signs on them). It lasted for a short time. This was about 1984 or so. By the mid/late 1980's - back bus signs were just affixed directly to the bus. The racks on the sides of the bus were gone (which allowed some RTS' to have the long "Manhattan" signs that usually advertise Broadway plays (PA 1525 had one for Annie - currently Orion 119 has one - as does Orion 139 - for "Annie Get Your Gun").
flx7595
I remember long side "Manhattan" style ads appearing on brand new Queens 1981 RTS's 1272 (FLU), PA1551 and PA1557 (QV). However, the ads weren't for Broadway plays. They were for New Kool Ultra cigarettes, which featured a jazz sax player on it.
Currently, those long ads (which I happen to like) and the rear wraps (which I love) appear on buses out of HUD, MJQ, MV, 126 depots. Amsterdam and Mother Hale uses the long side ads for its Manhattan routes--they haen't figured out a way to wrap the rear of an Orion. Maybe they should ask LI Bus. Express buses out of QV, JAM, UP and CAS also sport the long ads. I've never seen one of these ads on one of Yukon's MCIs. Speaking of Yukon, buses 119 and 139 at Stengel had their ads placed on them by YUK. Stengel no longer uses long ads on their express buses for some reason.
Those full-length side/rear wrap "Manhattan" ads make a bus easily identifiable when it gets moved to one of the other boroughs. An example of this is, 4130 at JAM with its rear wrap placed on it by MJ Quill. The bus was moved first to FLA, who kept the ad on and now its at JAM with that same ad (featuring a huge blue butterfly) still affixed to its rear.
Mark
ABC 7 also had the front at one point, when this all started a few years ago.
Again, nothing major to salivate over. I was drilling (parking) buses this morning and looked at the mfg.tag on the 4800s we just received at Jamaica depot. These buses were built 4/88 even though they are registered as 1987. I guess when the whole shipment of 4600-4899 buses were about to come in, transit registered all of them at the same time in 1987, even though the 4800s were not built yet.
BIG AL
You have:
RTS Fleet:
The high 4500s are 1987 while the rest are 1986.
The low 8000s are 1990 while the rest are 1991.
The high 8500s are 1994 while the rest are 1993.
The high 8600s-8704 are 1995 while the rest are 1994.
8750-8752 are 1995s while 8753 on up is 1996.
9350-low 9400s and 4901 are 1997s while the rest are 1998s.
Orion Fleet:
400-401 are 1994 while 402 on up are 1995.
6000 is a 1998 while 6001-6349 are 1999.
6350-6353 are 1998, 6354 is a 1999, and 6356-6359 are 2000.
New Flyer Fleet:
1001 is a 1996 while 1000-1002 to 1069 are 1997.
801 is a 1998, while 800-802 to 856 are 1999.
5250 is a 1999 while 5251-5509 is 2000.
MCI Fleet:
1861-1863 are 1997 while 1860-1864 to 2039 are 1998.
The NYC Bus Fleet is full of mixed year buses!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
[...6350-6353 are 1998, 6354 is a 1999, and 6356-6359 are 2000.]
And remember that 6350-6353 were originally NJT buses, while the remaining 6 were bought by the TA.
All of that is true and nicely broken down. However, for purposes of conserving space while putting together my roster, I just categorize the odd-ball buses in with the rest of their fleet. For example, New Flyer D60HF 5250 is a really a 1999 model but I include it with 5251-5509 as a 2000 model. The remanufactured RTS's (7000s and 7500s) are almost impossible to keep track of, so I just call the "1996-98 Reman".
You could drive yourself crazy keeping up with those things. Basically the TA accepts a test bus 6-12 months in advance before accepting the rest of a given fleet. Bus 5250 is an example of this. So are RTS's 8750-8751, 9351, 4901; Orions 173-174 (ex93073 and 93074), 317, 400, 401, 611, and 6000.
Mark
a slight correction on the mci fleet. 1860 and 1861-1863 are 1998 models. 1861 which arrived in 2/98 is 1998 model. 1864-2039 are 1999 models. 2040- 2139 are 1999 mci. 2705 -2804 are 2001 models as will be 2805-2874. 2755 -2804 have digital mileage drivers clock and totally redigned dashboard. those buses are all at ulmer park. has anyone ever seen 2803-2804. im on gowanus daily and have yet to see these 2.
Yeah I guess so. I remember around 11/87 I saw #4755 which operated out of 146th Street depot several weeks before the others buses started arriving.
Wayne
NY1 reports thta Coach USA has purchased Apple Tours....GOOD NEWS
Peace,
ANDEE
[NY1 reports that Coach USA has purchased Apple Tours]
If that's true, my guess would be that they will merge it into their Gray Line NY operation, which is connected with Hudson/ShortLine. I believe I read recently that Gray Line ordered some new double-deckers from England.
Yes, these are Dennis Trident Double Decker Coaches. From what I understand, they are due sometime soon!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
>>NY1 reports thta Coach USA has purchaced Apple Tours...GOOD NEWS<<
Unless that you work for Apple tours and lose your job due to a takeover or a merger.
Spotted this airporter bus for sale on E-bay. Can't tell from the pics if its a slope-back or not ( I think so)
Auction # 549751794
Please note : I am in no way affiliated with the seller.
That is an RTS-03 so it was originally a slopeback, but it looks like it has been capped. Also, in the description, it says the bus has a Thermo-King a/c unit, so that probably takes care of the slopeback.
Yes, it definitely started out as a slant-back RTS. It is a model T7W603.
Checking the serial number given by the seller, it started out life as Kanahwa Valley Transit Authority #818 (Charleston, WV).
From the photo, it appears that it is owned by British Columbia Charter Buses (and the owner mentions the bus was a shuttle at YVR, which BCCB operates....) The older RTS's were never certified, and hence, never sold in Canada. Only the later "06" and "08" models were certified up there, and BCCB did buy a bunch of them with Cummins engines a few years back. Toronto Transit Commission ordered a bunch, and there have been other smaller orders here and there but the RTS has never been a big seller north of the border.
Gilligs take such a beating on this site (perhaps somewhat deservedly so), that I was pleasantly surprised when I was in San Diego a few weeks back to see a large fleet of Gilligs still going strong. I only got to ride on one, but the others I saw seemed to be in excellent physical condition and the ones I heard appeared to be running well. I suspect San Diego's maintenance may be partially responsible for its success with Gilligs. On the down side, it appeared that pretty much all of San Diego's recent bus orders were for New Flyers, not Gilligs.
Yes, San Diego Transit does have a very good maintenance department. They also have one helluva lot of spare buses to work with, so they actually have time to give the buses the care they do need. (They just recently retired the last of their GM fishbowls, #916, which was in daily service until it died!!)
They do have some crappy Gilligs -- the 1700-1713 series. But these are the only ones they bought used. They were originally Orange County Transit Authority 1983 units, and were in excellent shape when OCTA sold them off (OCTA gets rid of everything except RTS's when they reach 14 years old, the RTS's will stay forever). OCTA sold a bunch of 14 of the 105 1983 Gilligs to an outfit known as Western Transit Systems, a shuttle operator around Disneyland. The only maintenance they ever got there was fueling once in a while. They went belly-up. SDT was short of equipment when they expanded service, and was able to get three Gilligs from Sacramento and 11 of the 14 WTS units.
And, yes, all their deliveries in recent years have been New Flyer. The same thing happened at OCTA -- because Gillig's in-plant quality control sucked, and the prices rose up to where other manufacturer's could underbid Gillig.
The only other good running Gilligs that I know of in service today are in Delaware. Knock on wood, but I've never had a problem riding the Gilligs at DART. I have to agree that sometimes a maintenance department can have a huge impact on a model of bus.
No offense to RTS_2150, but that's what I've been trying to say when he said that the Neoplans were crap in Houston. Anyway, I've never had any problems with any of the Gilligs I rode (PalmTran, Ride-On), I just complain about the really flat sides and how the windshields don't fold over to the sides (in other words, they are completely flat)
Perhaps you'd be right if we actually had bad maintenence and Neoplan models hadn't been problematic all over the country. We have some of the best if not THE best maintenence in the company. Metro rehabbed New Looks and RTS-03s in a depot that was basically no more than a mud pit for crying out loud. The fact they are still running at all is a testament of how good our maintenence is.
Ride-On has a good fleet. I was on a 1989 Gillig that did fine on Friday on the 37.
I can agree; there are some good-running Gilligs out there, and we have a whole fleet of them here in Roanoke. Valley Metro, our local TA, has been buying them since 1988, and all of them are good-looking and running well. Also, it helps that VM has an outstanding facility and superior maintenance staff. Despite powertrain problems with their 1994 models (which is understandable as this was the first year for the mandated DD Series 50 and Allison 5-speed), Valley Metro has been quite pleased with Gillig's customer service and technical support. These have proven to be solid buses, especially the 1988 and 91 models with the 6V92-T engines. While the Valley Metro staff laments the passing of Flxible, the Gilligs that replaced their venerable old favorites keep their agency's reputation running strong as ever. Chances are that we just may receive 10 more this year when the 88s which turned Roanoke on to California coaches are retired, possibly to be bought by others who will enjoy their long-lasting service.
Have those new 45-foot low-floor NABIs arrived in Phoenix yet?
And if so, how are they working out?
Well.
MTA LI Bus Used To Have About 120 Gilligs Some Are 35 Foot and the rest are 40 Foot. I Went on it one time on the N22 In The Summer Of 1998. The Last Time I Ever Saw A Gillig Running where 2 35 Foot Buses At Roosevelt Field Mall One of then where out of service. I Thaut That One Was Going To Be The N24.The Other One was running the N93.
There Retired When The 70 2000 Orion5 CNG Buses Came In. It's Sad To See The LI Bus Gilligs gone. It's Sad.
Good looking running Gillig buses can be found in Las Vegas (they had 13 in service last time i was there in 1996) and Suffolk Transit as well as Huntington Area Rapid Transit. Why didnt LI bus take better care of these buses? in the wrose case, if they were in good condition, they could have sent them over to either Green or Triboro(to Triboro then they could have gotten rid of some of their older RTS buses which really look like !@#$)
To tell you the turth. the LI bus gilligs are 1988 models and the LI Bus gilligs are in good condition.I Think The LI Bus Gilligs where put into storage. I not shure if the LI Bus gilligs will be comming back into service or sell them. If they do I think Triboro will buy them because the GM RTS Are junky buses and I Hope Green Bus Lines,Command,Triboro,and Queens Surface go with gillig one day.
I Hope That Will happin.
Okay, that's quite enough! You're calling RTS buses junky yet you're praising Gilligs, one of the most despised buses to ever litter the streets of this country! When a TA wants to keep a Gillig beyond 15 years you talk to me. When a TA wants to keep a Gillig beyond the 12 year mandate you talk to me! I've been keeping quiet about RTS buses recently but my god, how dare you even suggest the RTS be replaced by a Gillig. Perhaps them replacing Flxibles is acceptable since those are somewhat marginal buses themselves. If Triboro had those horrible Gilligs they'd be out of service within five years becuase they can barely be kept up in a good maintenence environment and from what I've heard Triboro has some horrible maintenence! For the RTS to last in some of the conditions the local NYC TAs have put them through is amazing in itself and proves their durability and longevity and for you to call them junky buses in favor of a Gillig becuase they're not oh so spotless for your eyes is a slap in the face to over 20 years of RTS heritage! I mean, God! Get a grip on reality!
IIRC, the LIB Gilligs were overhauled in 1997. They were still in decent running shape when I rode one on the N27 a couple of years ago.
The Gilligs are likely being stored with the intent of retirement, since I don't believe they are ADA accessible.
You are correct the LIBus Gilligs aren't wheelchair accessible(which was strange cause when LIBus had the Flexible Metro's (the 1000's)they were wheelchair accessible.Most likely they can be x-fered to the NYCDOT were a small % of there buses aren't ADA accessible(the MCI Claasics).
I have had the misfortune of riding the old Gilligs from LIBus and msut say I am not sad to se them go. They were dirty, they smelled, they leaked when it rained making half the seat on them unusable unless you carried a roll of papertowels with you, and they broke down constantly. I have either been left stranded by them or have been forced to walk the rest of the way home.
But in their defense, Their upkeep did not seem to be a primary concern for LIBus. I feel sorry for the 70 new Orion Vs because it looks like they are in store for the same treatment.
We have some 1988 Gilligs here in Roanoke that were retrofitted with Lift-U units similar to their 1991 and 94 stablemates; they have been working just fine and you would never know it was a retrofit, so those old LI buses may have some life left in them just yet...you never know.
Effective Monday jan 22 2001 the routes 4 ,20, 21 will resume service on the Bedford park Boulevard Bridge.The new bus stop located near the entrance to the # 4 train.
Wow - it's been so long that I almost forgot that they used to discharge and layover in that spot.
Wayne
I hear that the new NEOPLAN AN460 articulated will be at 475 garage on Monday for testing.
Is that the garage in Yonkers or White Plains?
Good Move By The Beeline. Because I Don't Like The MAN. Because The MAN Are junky buses these buses make lould noses. It's Good thing that these buses are going to be gone for good. I Live In Queens And I Go To School In New Rochelle. The School Is On Main St and centre ave. and most of the time Use On The 7 Route. But why beeline keep the MAN'S That Long? Some Transit Compinys Such As KC Metro Keep These MAN'S A Long Time On Til 1999 Got Replace By D60'S From
New Flyer. Even CTA TOO. CTA Will Keep Running MAN'S
Til Some Time 2002. I Say MAN Are junky buses.
The reason why Bee Line kept these buses so long is because they rebuilt them to like new condition some years back, thus the roof mount HVAC and new Allison Transmissions. I'm not a big M*A*N fan either, BUT Bee Line has the best ones I've ever ridden and I'd expect these to go for a high resale value based on thier current condition!!!!!
Note: Bus #661 was a MTA Demo!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I have a feeling Chicago might be payint attention to the fact that the Westchester MANs are ready for retirement. The only downfall is that they don't have w/c lifts, so they may not get picked up by another US carrier.
Fortunately, CTA will be replacing the MANs sooner, rather than later, as they have already secured an order from NABI to replace those buses by 2002-03.
You forgot to mention WMATA. They also have the MAN artics.
I'm thinking that the days may be numbered for WMATA's MAN artics. These days they pretty much only operate during rush hours.
Wayne
Well today I went to the Lunar New Year festival in Flushing. Fortunately I had no Cummins on the N21 today. Going to Flushing, our bus turned on Schenk ave from N.Blvd, and into Great Neck that way. There must've been an accident or something, though I didn't see anything ahead or down Northern when we turned right onto N.Blvd after Middle neck road.
The last stop was Sanford ave and Union street in Flushing. They had all the streets around downtown shut down, Main,Roosevelt,Union, and vicinity. It must've been chaos with all those bus reroutes. And the drivers on LI Bus didn't know where their temporary bus stop was, there was no sign posted at the regular stop on Roosevelt ave, though every NYCT line had signs posted.
The parade was huge, much, much bigger than when I went two years ago.
It was crowded, and there was a mix of Korean and chinese floats. It was kind of commercialized though, with Newsday and Verizon also having floats. Then there was an indoor festival at PS 20, on Union st and Barclay ave. There was a business fair, and several shows in the auditorium. Alot of the stuff wasn't even Chinese,with Caribbean, African, and Indian music and dancing. Funny to see that stuff in a "chinese new year" celebration! The chinese dancers were good, but I was hoping to see some chinese music performed, I did not see any.
As far as the indoor part goes, I liked it better two years ago. It was in the Sheraton on Roosevelt ave. It was closer to the bus stop and had strictly chinese stuff, plus more businesses in the expo than today's event.
Tomorrow I check out the parade in Chinatown. The dancing that I saw Wednsday I enjoyed somewhat better than what I did today, only for the fact that it was strictly traditional chinese and was not too large. Knowing my tastes I'll probably enjoy tomorrow's parade in Chinatown a little better than what I did today. Still though, I did have a good time in Flushing today!
Add this bus to the Hudson Pier roster. Saw her last night operating the last run-121 on the Q32. 4483 and 4486 are also at Pier. Question is-why aren't they at Jamaica?
Q32#4476Gary
They aren't at JAM because a 1986 bus is too new to be sent there. Plain and simple!
Or because they'd scrap it. JAM has a penchant for doing that with the newer GMC equipment it seems.
Jam. has only been scrapping buses mainly because of bad engines, or serious accidents. Buses that smoke need the engines replaced but transit as a whole decided to scrap any bus thats a 1987 or older that needs an engine. Remember, I'm sure the other depots are scrapping buses as well, but not that many depots, if any, have as many old buses as Jamaica does and also, nobody reports what goes on in the other depots on bus talk as much as I report what goes on in Jamaica so it only APPEARS Jamaica scraps alot more buses than the other depots.
BIG AL
When i was looking at Glenn MTA Bus Roster & i was suprise that RTS #4195 is really ex #3506? When this bus renumber? BTW i do have a picture of RTS #4195 on my site & i took it on 1999 at Kingsbridge Depot. I know the real RTS #4195 is in Nimco Scarp Yard. Also i wonder what happen to RTS #4211 ex #3494?
Peace Out
David Justiniano
www.geocities.com/justin2669/NYCTransiTrans.html
RTS 4211 was former RTS 3496-NOT 3494. She was sent to the scrapper too.
BX12#4195/#3506Gary
While walking on Adam Clayton Powell Blvd today around 12.30pm I spotted 6360 the Hybrid RTS in service on the M2 route southbound on 125th St I didn't get a real good look at her because she was breezing by. She didn't appear too dirty so she probably hasn'\t seen much service lately
I Saw 6360 Too. On Pelham Parkway when the bus was passing by the School Bus That I Was On. It Look Very Nice. It Is The Collest RTS Bus I Ever Seen. The Bus Did Not Have The MV Depot logo on the right side. It Must Be When The Bus Was Comming Back From Nova Bus.
I saw on Friday morning on the M103 southbound. I was totally shcked to see it. What kind of bus is this?
nova hybrid. first of 5 due.
The outher Nova RTS Hybrid 6361. Is comming to the MTA NYC Transit by the end of February. It's in Altoona, Pennsylvania right now.
Dominick Bermudez.
Ooh, what does it look like?? Not your typical RTS?
I saw it (6360) on the M101 on Thursday and on the M103 on Friday. Basically, it looks EXACTLY like the RTS we all came to love, the 1999 RTS-06, except with a two-foot-tall battery tank on the roof near the rear of the bus. Its design is not too ugly, but it doesn't look too pretty at all, either. Basically, it looks like a 1999 RTS, but rides and feels like a Orion VI Hybrid-Electric. Well, if you like the RTS, you'll love this new hybrid. Four more are to be in service within the next four months. Yes, I took pictures of it. I could not miss out on that! Anyway, I feel good about getting that off my chest, since you'd be interested in that. Thanks for reading!
--CWalNYC (8^)
Thanks! I'm relieved to hear it doesn't resemble the RTS-08 :).
While walking on Adam Clayton Powell Blvd today I spotted 6360 the Hybrid Rts going southbound on the M2 route. She breezed by so I didn't good look at her but I could say this. She couldn't have been in service for more than two days. She was clean as a whistle
I went to QV yesterday and saw a strange bus sitting there with no decals on her: 4010-YES 4010! It came from 1 of the storage yards and she had a farebox inside of her. This bus looked like it went through a war-faded paint in the front and had a CD 101.9 ad on her. Black rear paint-very dirty and faded number in the rear. Also right next to her was Bus 7026 which was involved in a serious accident-the back door was pushed in and the panel under the rear window was just hanging there. Looks like she's pending scrap. She's been sitting there a while. Next to her was 1819 and 3910 stripped of their decals.
Who's betting that the Reman RTS gets the scrapper's torch while 4010 goes back into service?
Well kids, sit back as the DOB prepares for: How to Send Recycled Buses to da Hood Part 2: Queens Village.
I guess they got smart and realized sending the crap to Jamaica was getting them nowhere since we were rejecting all of them. Now they are going to see if they can get over on Q.V. Their persistance to send the worst junk to S.E. Queens just astounds me.
BIG AL
Also a few 8300s have been o/s for quite some time now. 8355-which was a dog of a bus anyways along with 8382 8393 8375 7011 612 628-629 4908 4913 4339 7016 7003 and 4499. 1751 1767 1773 and 1852 are still at QV on the dead line along with 3807 3818 and 3824. They will only go out ONLY if necessary. Otherwise-they're due to the scrapper any day now. Let's just hope that 4010 sees service at QV-LOL! :)
Q46#4010Gary-LOL! I hope!
This may be a little off the beaten path, but it is about buses. Anybody have slides, photos, printed material about White Motor Company buses, particularly those manufactured between 1945 and the end of White's bus production in 1953. I think Triboro was one of the few NYC operators to use Whites, but these old girls had lots of character and were tough as nails.
saw this bus on thursday on the m3 at madison and 25st. the bus roster shows its last depot as hudson pier. the bus was stripped of ads and mta decals and logo on the front and back. it appears it was headed for scrap and nyct changed its mind sending it to manhattanville.
There is no reason to run an old bus in that condition on a Sunday while the newer buses were resting. Guess the dispatcher who assigns the buses doesn't like that driver!
It had no decals, but was in service? Now this is getting weird; Queens getting shafted I can see, but Manhattan?
A few things I don't understand about these treads concerning 4158.
1)I don't know how a bus could be in service with no logos or anything, especially on a Sunday.
2)I don't know how this bus was not transferred to Jamaica like the rest of the garbage.
3)I don't know why somebody would type:***QUEENS GETTING SHAFTED I COULD SEE, BUT MANHATTAN?***
BIG AL
3)I don't know why somebody would type:***QUEENS GETTING SHAFTED I COULD SEE, BUT MANHATTAN?***
That was tongue-in-cheek (see your #2)
i posted on sunday but said i saw the bus a few days earlier. as mentioned front mta logo was missing,rear decals missing and it was devoid of ads so it appeared it had been saved from scrap.
The reason I wrote #2 is because I expect T/A to send all the garbage to Queens since that is what they like doing.
The reason I wrote #3 is because I don't expect people to write that it is OK to send the garbage to Queens as I interpreted your remark about "Queens Getting Shafted I Could See".
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but I did not see it as tongue in cheek. After being on the receiving end getting all the garbage after all these years, I and alot of other people on this board are somewhat sensitive as to what is said in regards to how Queens is treated in getting good quality buses.
BIG AL c/o Jam & QV depots, the dumping grounds of T/A.
"BIG AL c/o Jam & QV depots, the dumping grounds of T/A."
instead of 'the dumping ground', how about putting a positive spin on it and say it is 'the rescuers of the dammed' ??
Or the "historic bus fleet."
Big Al - sorry for the misunderstanding. As a southeast Queens resident, I'm a little frustrated seeing most of the new stuff go everywhere else, but at least I only ride them, not drive and maintain them. I'm far less surprised when I hear that Jamaica is getting buses transferred from Nimco (not that I condone it), whereas Manhattanville getting a scrap bus is like Queens getting an MCI.
Rode this bus on the Q32 tonight-naked of all her ads but in the front. Still has great pickup on her as I was flying up Roosevelt Ave. Also had HP Stickers on her.
Please don't scrap her yet but knowing the MTA-they will. :(
Q32#4158Gary
the front ad must have recently been applied as this bus has no front or rear mta logo.
It's the NY1 ad that hsa been appearing on all of the buses in the front.
Q32#4158Gary
Hey guys, --would like to find out some background on 10 MTA RTS's which showed up in the Rhode Island Public Transit Authority bus garage lot in December (complete with advertising ads) .......they are generally numbered in the 4100 series but at least one is a 4400 (#4493) which was painted in the new RIPTA color scheme, had its interior left intact, and is already in service.
Since I am from New York originally, these buses caught my eye as a very unusual sight in Providence ( I guess we can't afford any more new ones !) I was curious if anyone had a few secs to shed some light on what borough these buses came from , how old, and why RIPTA purchased them?
MANY THANKS in advance.........and I miss the Q72 bus down Junction Blvd !
Hey, you copied my screen name :). Not a problem; I'm flattered actually.
I saw these sitting in the yard about a month ago; see that thread for some info. ctrabs74's RIPTA roster lists 4034, 4136, 4170, 4186, 4361, 4365, 4366, 4368, 4384, 4386, 4388, 4389, 4405, 4473, 4493, and 4495 as being purchased by RIPTA. The 40xx and 41xx buses are 1985 GMC RTS-04, and the 43xx and 44xx are 1986 GMC RTS-06. I saw 4186 in RIPTA colors on N Main St at Smithfield Ave last month, though I didn't catch if it was on the 99 or OOS. The odd thing is, RIPTA has a schedule for new bus purchases over the next six years to replace the Neoplans, 90xx RTSs, and probably the Volvos (see above-referenced thread), so it puzzles me why they would be buying 15 year old buses that have led a harsher life than their own 10 and 12 year old buses.
Keep your eye out for more :). Have you seen any of the 99xx 30' RTSs in service?
hey Hope Tunnel!!.......greetings from your homeland as you live down there in MY homeland!.....many thanks for your info and the threads; I had no idea that the RTS's were discussed before. I pass the RIPTA bus yards everyday going back and forth to work and was surprised to see those MTA colors.
I have seen a couple of the 99's in service over the last few months.....most were held back for warranty work because the rear of these buses would shimmy dangerously so most have had extremely little service if any..........also, a few (about 5 ) of the Volvos are still in service as of Jan 27
AND lastly.....I thought it would be fun to have a similar screen name of my bus route to advertise our RIPTA system.......seriously, if you think it is too close to yours and would be confusing to the guys I will be happy to change it.........take care
Only a few of the Volvos are left? Are they being scrapped? Stored? They seemed to be going strong as of 2-3 weeks ago.
I don't have a problem with the similar screen names, as long everyone else can keep the two straight :)
I have the listing of the ex-NYC buses in service which went to RIPTA as part of my all-time RIPTA roster:
http://www.geocities.com/ctrabs74/rosters/ripta.html
I was on 7th Ave. near the upper 30's around 4:15pm today. I saw a NYCT RTS up ahead with a larger than usual sticker type rear ad. As I got up to it, I noticed the number was 1576. There was a police car behind it and it seemed to be moving very slow. On the front where the logo usually is was a mark as if it had been peeled off. Guess this was a movie bus.
NYCTA RTS #1576 was sold several years ago to Double A Transportation in Rocky Hill, Conn., and, according to that company's web site, is still owned by them. Don't know what it was doing in NY.
I think it was an imposter 1576 for movie puposes. Other than the unusually large rear ad (not a wrap) and the rear # looked a touch larger than usual, this bus looked so real it had me fooled. There was even a depot logo sticker on the side. I was in a cab with some friends so I couldn't get a good look at it.
Double A has sold the bus to company in Brooklyn that provides cars, trucks and buses for movie work.
That 1576 was in a movie i saw last week on tape with martin short playing a fairy godmother.
Before there was a post about the RTS bus in Midtown Madness. Well, at a glance it looks like an RTS, but when you look closely it has the shape of an RTS, but there are some parts, like the windshield, that is like a Flxible bus. Also, the back is half RTS, half Flxible, yet the brakelights are like neither of them. So, I guess they are from the MAN buses. So, you might call it a MlixTS. I guess the programmers were trying to put Chicago's bus fleet into one bus.
Actually, the back of the bus in Midtown Madness is the most realistic part of the whole thing. The taillight arrangement of CTA's RTS's looks just like that. Notice that on the right side of the bus, there are no doors, and while the bus displays a CTA-like scheme, it is not a WFD RTS. I have trouble telling whether the front is an 870 or a Metro. Toward the very front on the sides, there is an old-school yellow NCTD logo, and the front looks more like an NCTD Flxible than a CTA Flxible. Let's be glad none of these buses are running in real life!
I resent that. How would you like it if someone talked smack about RTSes?
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I meant 'Let's be glad that none of those weird Midtown Madness hybrid 870/Metro/RTS's are around!'
I like Flxibles, and I AM glad that they are in service!
Oops...my bad; I thought you were ranking on the Flxes. I am glad to see them still in service as well.
You have to understand what I've been through; I am currently in driver training at a local TA, and they have a mixed bag of 35 and 40 foot 1986-87 Flx Metro "B"s (my favorites of the lot), 1989 RTSes, and their latest "pride and joy", some 1998 New Flyer LFs. Everyone there is all about the NFs because they're new and loaded with gadgets, and the Flxibles get a lot of bad-mouthing probably because they are now the oldest buses in the fleet. Some drivers prefer the RTSes over the Flxes for various reasons as well.
Ever since I started there, every driver I have ever talked to has shat all over the Flxes royally, referring to them as "the dogs", "pieces of junk", and "crappy buses". Needless to say, I've had an earful. So far I feel as if I'm the only one there that calls the Flxes my favorite ride. Then I met the chief mechanic today and he reassured me that I was perfectly normal in my own right; he claims that the Flxes were great buses and he hated to see them go. It turns out that my TA was somewhat next in line for bids on Flxible buses in 1996, but unfortunately that is about when Delaware closed up shop. Therefore, they had to get in line elsewhere, hence the New Flyers two years later.
I think the RTS is great looking in its own right, and the New Flyer has some neat bells and whistles, but I've always preferred the styling of the 870/Metro to any of the above. Like the RTS, it's a simple, sleek design that still looks newer than most every new bus out there more than 20 years later. I love the styling, and the smooth, spacey hum of that 6v71 engine. This is what I grew up with; when I ride a Flxible, it makes me feel at home.
Hey, I thought that this would be the best bus. After all, it is a combination of the most favorite modern buses of all time, other than the new looks.
Good thinking; I have yet to see what Midtown Madness looks like but now I'm tempted to check it out. This Grumman/Flxible/RTS hybrid must look quite interesting! If only they made a video game version of Speed with an accurate-looking Santa Monica Fishbowl...
You can download the demo at www.downloads.com.
I was by the SBK yard over the weekend, and Jamiaca's finest, 2640, 3033, 3909, and 4009, are all still there, waiting to be scrapped, sold, or transferred to QV; 3033 is devoid of numbers. Just curious if the "Mets-Believe!" ad was put in just for Jamiaca's benefit, as in "Queens-Believe that we're giving you these buses."
Also, on Flatbush Ave near the Flatbush Depot, there's a Fire Department bus parked in a bus stop. It has a plywood wall about three seats behind the driver, and the front door has two eyes screwed into it with a padlocked chain through the eyes. Does anyone know what # the bus was, and what its use is?
that same bus was out here on staten island at the fire house on victory blvd in travis two weeks ago. i believe someone on bustalk said it was a former qsc or triboro bus.
That bus was also at several firehouses in queens - particularly both on union turnpike and one on springfield blvd.
Someone said it was 1384 or 1385??
Wasn't it 1396?
Q46#7001Gary
Bus 1384, an exFlatbush bus, is now property of NYFD. Its only fitting that it was spotted at its old garage.
Mark
I have been working on a project that will eliminate the need to downlode a QuicBasic compiler. I am in the process of making a version of Bus Sign for Windows. Just thought I'd give you a heads-up on this.
Cool! Keep us updated on your progress.
Jim (RailBus)
Hope it's a really good one! I could use one for my website.
As a huge Transit Bus enthuisiast, I am very surprised and disappointed that New York City Transit is not keeping up with preserving all of their Historical Buses. For instance, the 1963 GMC
TDH-5303 model Fishbowl Museum former Transit Authority bus #3758 has remained out of operating commission due to serious electrical defects
since late 1999. This reknown 1963 General Motors 5303 model bus 3758 could not even make it to last years N.Y.C. Transit Bus Roadeo at
South Beach for those same mechanical reasons. Therefore, how long could it really take for this 1963 GM New Look Transit Authority to finally get completely overhauled where the Classic Vehicle can start operating again so it can start being present at future NYC Transit Bus Roadeo's and Bus Fests?
Historic vehicles while nice to have are low priority with transit systems. The buses that need to serve the public daily are and should be the prime focus and the MTA obviously is doing this.
With a fleet the size of the MTA's, I'm sure they have a long line of revenue buses waiting for repairs and I personally, even though I would like to see all the historic vehicles in pristine condition, feel the revenue buses need to take priority. In general terms, passengers/customers need to come first and that means getting the revenue buses out on the road. The luxury of a historic fleet needs to come after that.
Just be happy they preserved 3758 in the first place. It could have gone to the scrapper. When the MTA has time, they'll fix it.
I know alot of you guys are probably going to slam me for what I'm about to say, but I don't even understand why they kept musuem bus 3758 in the first place. Jamaica depot has museum bus 1059 which is a year 1961 GM 5301 series bus that I believe is exactly identical to 3758, so why do they have to keep 2 of the same type of bus? Seems like a waste of valuable space in a depot which is probably overcrowded as it is. Transit should have kept a 1977 Flxible musuem bus instead as none of these were preserved at all.
BIG AL
Big Al, I have to agree with you on the 77s. I would have preferred to see at least one of these preserved; surely an outside source could have kept the other 61 5301 for historical purposes. It sounds like what needs to happen there is that someone needs to form a group and obtain a 501(c)3 to become a non-profit organization (read: separate transit museum) in order to preserve these fine coaches. That gives benefits to both sides; the MTA has the free space they need for revenue vehicles, and vintage transit buffs get to have a unique opportunity to share these vehicles with the public.
We had a similar situation here in Roanoke, VA a couple of years ago; our local transportation museum had taken on a small collection of regional buses, one of which was a 1947 Mack from Roanoke that joined their collection in the 1960s. Basically, the museum became more exclusive to trains; meanwhile, the buses just sat outside to rot like junk.
When some local transit buffs and I got word that the buses were to be disposed of, we immediately formed together, holding meetings at our local TA, who has graciously lent us board room space for our meetings. Eventually, we were granted a 501(c)3 classification, and our museum went public. Since it is a policy that the museum was to affer them to another museum before offering them for public sale (or worse, their demise), the coaches were donated to us, we found some gracoiusly donated space for storage, and we are now successfully restoring one of them to original, like-new condition. Our goal is to have a museum of rolling exhibits to help provide a free service to organizations providing that we receive donations to cover cost of fuel, etc. In fact, two of our preserved coaches, a 1976 Flxible and a 1979 Grumman, have recently been used on successful runs for various local organizations.
It is not an overnight process; it was somewhat lengthy, but we did not give up hope. We have taken things one step at a time, and now things are starting to move right along. All it takes is the dedication to know that you can make a difference. Perhaps you and your colleagues will do the same. If we can start a successful coach and trolley museum in a town where transit is barely supported, then surely one can exist in NYC, where it is a main thoroughfare and a vital backbone of the city's accessibility. And what better way to celebrate that than by sharing its history with New York locals and visiting tourists.
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
http://www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
I'm aware of a couple of musuems in the North East that have some buses:
- Sea Shore in ME has a large fleet, with a number in operating condition. Two are road worthy, i.e. insured & registered ... a 1967 GMC Fishbowl that I rode in last year and a 1962 GMC TGH-3102 old-look that is used for prades & such.
- Shoreline in CT has a small fleet, two of which they are doing a little work on: a 1955 GMC & a 1947 Brill trackless from SEPTA. It's not clear how or if they intend operate the trackless, but a little more work gets done on it almost every week-end.
Both groups would welcome some folks who are willing to get dirty, no prior experience necessary. I would be happy to put you in touch with the bus folks their (I'm a subway buff, but have agreed to help paint the GMC in CT this year).
Mr t__:^)
The problem with starting a bus museum in NYC is the scarcity of storage space and restrictions on parking and operating them on streets. Other than that, just think of what a great bus museum that would be, with all the different models in the area! Hopefully it can be done, maybe with some land in LI or New Jersey; for now, we have to appreciate what the MTA does to preserve bus history.
Congratulations on getting your museum going; it looks like you're doing a great job with those buses. Nice to see you're an AMC man, too; my parents had a '68 American and a '68 Ambassor :).
I'm sure those restrictions can be worked around; poke into it and see what you can find out. You never know; you just might be able to pull it off just yet!
-Fred
They're pretty close (TDH-5301 #1059 & TDH-5303 #3758), but not quite identical. The first generation fishbowls (5301/2, 4516/7) had square marker lights and the second generation fishbowls (5303/4, 4518/9) series had the semi rounded marker lights. They also sounded a bit different to me also.
Wayne
Plus the 5301 has larger standee windows and the 5303-on up has smaller standee windows as well.
Hey Al, I love riding 90xx Flxible & my father love that bus too when he work at Old 100th St Depot back in early 80s. BTW Al there are few 1977 Flxible Buses are at Metro-North Storage Yard is 9303-stripped, at Edgewater #9284, at Nimco Scarp Yard #9300 (NYPD #4048), @ unknown #9199 (HB #9596). Maybe u should go get it & save it in the garage for musuem.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
If its at Nimco this week ,that means JAM will have it in passenger service sometime next week:)
Believe me, I'm tempted. The 9000 series Flxibles have always been my favorite new look bus. They rode by far the smoothest out of any GM or older Flxible. When I was in H.S. Jamaica depot had 9090-9099. If I saw one coming in the distance I would wait for it and let any other bus in front of it pass me by. I could always tell a 9000 in the distance by the black bumper. I would sit in the front and stare at the dash board. I loved the way the idiot lights looked running up the corner windshield. I also loved the small reading lights built into the first poster board behind the front doors. And I will never forget the sound the air brakes made whenever the brake pedal was released. No other bus sounded that awesome. Then transit started painting them white and I really could not wait to get on one, let alone just to get a chance to see one. I used to stare at them as they would go up the street in their new colors. I always wished that one day I would get a chance to drive one, not knowing that I would become a bus operator in the future. Imagine my disappointment when I found out the last 9000 was retired (I can't bare to say the word "scrapped") the SAME WEEK I was hired for transit back in 1994. Even more of a disappointment for me was when I went to my first rodeo in 1995 and looked at all the museum buses and found out that no 9000s were preserved at all. I think that has to be one of the biggest mistakes made by whoever oversees the museum buses. They went out of their way saving the GM's like similar buses as 1059 & 3758, but couldn't preserve a 9000 Flx. I can only hope that one day I can go someplace and get a chance to drive, in my opinion, the finest New Look bus ever built.
Q4#9094 BIG AL
Wow, you've never marked out like that before. Amazing. I'm pretty sure there're some rusting away in a storage yard around NYC.
BTW, marking out is a wrestling term that means that you're showing that you like a wrestler, or in this case a bus.
Sorry about the 9000s Al. I've wasted so many years of bus riding already. When the Grummans were having their last hurrah out of West where all 33 of them were stationed, I was just riding whatever was thrown my way. It was alot easier to find a Grumman than it is to find an RTS now becuase at least 8 ran in base service and about 20 ran on the 2 line and 8 on the 65 line during rush hour and whatver was left was sent where ever. These were my favorite buses at that time and I took them for granted knowing that they would be retired. I truly regret that now.
Wow, nice story. It reminds me when I used to go home everyday from Junior High School and wait for the 3:30pm B25 heading downtown at Fulton and Nostrand. I think ENY was the only depot that had the 9xxx FLX. Also when I was in summer school in 1990, I always rode on the M15 9xxx FLX. Those are my absolute favorite buses that the MTA has had. Actually, I like all of the buses in my childhood, 70's GMC Fishbowls and FLX's, 80's RTS's and Grumman's(which I used to ride on the B54 out of Fresh Pond). I also was devisated when the 9xxx FLX's were put out of service. It was around my graduation day in '94. Are there any agencies that still have those FLX's in service?
B61 Leonard
I don't know for sure but the last of WMATA's new look Flxibles were withdrawn from service as the new Orion V & VI were being delivered. These buses were very similar to NYCTA's 1977 Flxibles 9000-9309 except they were 96 inches wide.
Wayne
well as one who has driven 9000 flxibles i cannot share your love for them. the steering was terrible. with a standing load you literally had to stand up to steer the bus. they only lasted 15 years and transit scrapped them. yukon depot has 7340 a similar museum bus. no 9000 was saved and there are none in the nyc area.
Actually, Museum NYC Transit Authority bus #7340 is a 1974 Flxible model bus. One of the differences between the 1974 Flxible 7000's and 1977 9100's, were that the 1977 Flxible Buses had black front and rear bumpers, while the 1974 7000's had the chrome bumpers.
Also, the interior lights on the '74 Flxible were on the ceiling while the 9000's had them on the walls, over the standee windows. Also, the 9000's ran alot smoother. Unfortunatly, I have to admit also, that I've heard more bad stories from other operators about the Flxibles than good stories. While I do know some operators who liked them, I would say about 7 of 10 operators did not like them because of hard steering and weird brakes. Some operators claim when you would step on the brakes with the 7600s, the bus would actually speed up for a second, then start to slow down! I also knew from my personal observations that they did tend to break down more than their GM counterparts, mainly with suspension problems. However, the 9000 series 1977 Flxibles will always be my favorite New Look bus because of the way they were designed and rode. I guess it is sort of a good thing that I never had a chance to drive one as my affection for them probably would not be as great as the one I will always have for them.
BIG AL
Amen! Go get that puppy...save it from euthanization! All power to you.
I agree it is a shame 3758 isn't running!However most of us know that transit companies care more about what's running in service.It's good to know they retained so many old buses.The Port Authority here in Pittsburgh would never keep an historic bus.At one time they had a few but decided they weren't a museum.
The Port Authority of Allegheny County is not maintaining the historic fleet, however an outside museum is.
This is the web site for the Antique Motor Coach Association of Pennsylvania:
http://trfn.clpgh.org/amcap/
Caught her tonight on the M9 at 10:20 headed towards Union Sq.Had to do a double take cause she still had her MV depot tag on and the M9 operates out of HP.Was she x-fered to HP in the last week and if so is HP becoming the JAM of MABSTOA.Namely because this bus is plain and simple a pig and a wreck.Surprising that they didn't send her to JAM to replace another 4500.
To my knowledge 3483 was never sent to a scrap yard, so that would disqualify it from coming to Queens.
Mark
The way it looked and ran ,it should be sent to Nimco.
Over the past two weeks or so I've been observing the RTS situation in Houston and it doesn't look too good. As I was heading to my cousin's house about a week ago, I glimpsed over at the West Bus Facility and spotted the usual cluster of RTS buses that sit in the B-lot. These buses do see sparatic service, namely 1982 and 1976, but this particular day, two of them were sloppily painted white covering up their stripes and numbers. I'm pretty sure one of them is 2136, a 1983 RTS bus that was previously at West about three years ago, transferred to Fallbrook, back to West, back to Fallbrook, then to Hiram Clarke, and semingly back to West even though it still had the H on the windshield. I thought it'd be in service again but looks like that won't be the case. I'm thinking the other bus is 1982 RTS bus 1985. I had seen her in the B-Lot before with the engine door wide open for some time, not a good sign.
Also, in the B-Lot are buses 1980 (hasn't been in service in months, still in Metro Colors with radio and farebox but has a pink sheet of paper taped to the windshield), 2151 (hasn't been in service since late October but still in colors with farebox and radio, she's one of my favorite buses), 1982, 1976, 2147 (had bag over the farebox), and 1983.
This morning I had a dream about seeing multiple RTS buses including RTS buses 1912, 1922, 1927, 2005, 2117, and an ex-NYC RTS bus 8723 (this bus was totally white and had brown suburban seats and the first row of seats on the right side had three seats) and various other buses of which I didn't get their numbers. Also, one RTS bus had seats on the outside with people sitting in them. I also dreamt I was riding bus 2051 and it looked absolutely horrible and I questioned why I even liked this bus.
Anyway, dreams aside, today I rode around town in search of RTS buses and I lucked out with 2075 on the 5-Kashmere line (which is still 90% RTS but incidentally the route runs in a pretty low-income, high-minority area). 2075 was running without a radio (you know what that means) and the interior numbers had been peeled off. I expect this bus to be scrapped in a week. It rattled ALOT when I sat in the front but had some GREAT acceleration. Incidentally enough about three years ago this bus was in an acceleration test against some LNG powered Ikarus buses, New Flyers, and Neoplan artics, well, 2075 came in second. How do you like that? Anyway, after saying my (final)farewells to 2075 I headed over to Travis street to wait of the 44-Acres Homes Limited, another RTS heavy route. The funny thing about Acres Homes is that the teens there call that whole area the "44" after the bus route. Who's to say we teens don't appreciate public transit? I just hope they never change the route number. Anyway, I got RTS 1927 which I hadn't rode since it broke down last October. I was almost certain it was going to be scrapped but here she was in service again. This time she hauled ass at 70mph over the HOV and was a great bus until her interlock got stuck. Since we have the swing out back doors on our RTS buses, they can be knocked out of alignment and get stuck. This is what happened, twice. The first time the problem was fixed in a matter of seconds, the second time it took about ten minutes. The driver, the training driver, another man, and myelf were kicking at the door to get it aligned so the bus could pull off. Eventualy we got it and the bus began taking off with no driver, luckily the parking break was on. This happened on bus 2122 once and the bus almost rolled driverless thru an intersection. Anyway, 1927 flew down W. Montgomery at about 50mph and I got off at the Acres Homes Transit Center. I'm not going to describe my trip back home because I didn't ride any RTS buses. But here are the RTS buses I have seen in the past week...
1927, 1954, 1975, 1976, 1979, 2005, 2051, 2052, 2075, 2092, 2094, 2103, 2117, 2123, 2128, 2133, 2145 (I thought this bus was scrapped), 2150, 2153, 2159. Of these buses, I saw all but 215 today. All of these buses except 2052 and 2150 were on the 5-Kashmere, 44-Acres Homes, and the 20 Canal lines. Not too shabby really.
I'll keep you all updated on these beauties.
I'm curious about the engines used in modern transit buses, and I'm hoping some of the mechanically-inclined who visit this board might be able to shed some light:
1. What year was Detroit Diesel's '71' engine (i.e., 6V-71, etc.) replaced by the '92' engine as the company's primary transit bus powerplant? (I'm guessing around 1988 or 1989).
2. What is the difference between the DD Series 50 engine and the 71/92 engines? What are the advanatges and disadvantages to each?
3. What gives the Series 50 engine its unique sound in transit bus applications (especially when accelerating)?
Jim (RailBus)
get involved,,
Note--all my agendas,,etc,,will appear here ONLY
--i just posted the latest info regarding the BX29
this will include changes to services,,etc
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYCBUSBLINDS
I need you to post your observations..there are 100s of Bus Routes in NYC ,,etc
---if you see a Destination sign,,this is the place to post it
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYCBUSBLINDS
thank you
Steve
Ride On Have All 4 Ex Baltimore LNG Flxible Metro D Buses.
These Buses Where Bulit In 1992 To Baltimore To Test Out How The LNG Buses work. And Baltimore Did Not Like The LNG Flxible Metro's.
But One Question Is. Are these Ex Baltimore Flxible Metro's that
ride on have still LNG? Who Know's.
No, these buses were converted from LNG to Diesel and had a total engine replacement.
Originally these buses has 10.0L Cummins L-10G CELECT Engines rated at a 240 Horsepower and coupled to a ZF Ecomat HP-590 5-Speed Transmission. Once these buses hit the Ride-On property they sat for close to half a year before receiving thier overhaul which consisted of a:
8.5L Detroit Diesel Series 50 DDEC IV, 275 Horsepower Engine
Voith D863 ADR 3-Speed Transmission
Total Body Repaint
Bike Rack Addition
and several other small add ons.
Hope this information helps you!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Do anybody have a Photo of this bus? Because I want to see how the bus look like Before and after the bus came from baltimore.
Ditto here; I've gotta see this!
The Photo of this bus Can be found on Transitalk.
Just click on Orion5#135 to go to transitalk.
The Photo of this bus Can be found on Transitalk.
The URL to transitalk Is.
www.transitalk.com/
What is LNG exactly?
Liquefied Natural Gas
Did Anybody ever rode on A MTA NYC Transit's Orion6 One Time?
I Never Been On One. My Grandma Went On It One Time On The M7.
I See It one time on The M101. But Do anybody know witch route runs the Orion6 Most of the time?I Don't know witch route runs the Orion6 Most Of The Time. Because I Want To Go On A Orion6 One Day.
You can find a MTA-NYC Bus Orion VI Hybrid on most likely the M101, M103, M2, M5, M60 lines. However from time to time they'll show up on other Manhattanville routes. But the ones metioned above are the most popular that they'll show up on.
I doubt your grandmother rode one on the M7 as the M7 is a Mother Clara Hale route and MCH does not operate Hybrid buses yet. She is probably refering to the Orion V which if you're not a bus buff, can be mistaken for the Orion VI.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
My Grandma told me this when I was at her house one time and she did saw it on the M7. And I Know buses . I Think my grandma got mess up. Maybe It Was On The M5 Showing M7 route sign. she saw it at 14 St And 6 Ave. Maybe the driver did mess up on the Head Sign.
Maybe You Are Mistaken Just As She Was When She Seed It.
-Hank /s
I caught both the version of the TA's Orion VI(the originally slated for NJ transit and the ones purchased strictly for the TA) on the M2 and M103.The seating arrangement on the TA version is much better than what NJ transit had(except NJ transit had nicer seats).
I got on one Orion 6 at the annual bus festival at NYCTM, 6356.
whats this about a witch operating the orion 6. doesnt nyct investigate its employees before hiring or was this on halloween.LOL
This "Mission Monday" brought me back to Connecticut again, but to cover another division of the CTTransit operation.
My day began with a horrible rush hour ride on NJ Transit's 159 Busway Express (Volvo B-10M Articulated #9256). After the stressful ride into the Port Authority, I dashed downstairs with 2 minutes to spare to my 9:30am Greyhound Bus (which actually ended up being a Vermont MCI 102-A3 #40112). The ride was smooth and fast, we arrived in Hartford with 10 extra minutes to spare on the schedule.
After alighting the bus, I walked up Asylum Street right into heart of downtown Hartford. WOW!!!!!! Gorgeous city, lots of buses running around including some Double A Grumman-Flxibles. After bus watching downtown for a little while, I boarded my W-3 bus (New Flyer D40HF #9312) for the CTTransit Hartford Facility. After a short 10 minute journey, we were at the facility, VERY HIGH SECURITY, the security guard came on the bus and took my information and the whole nine yards. After being raided by CTT's Secret Service, I finally arrived at the doors. I was given a lovely tour of the facility, this garage is a prime example of how ALL transit operations needs to operate, VERY COST EFFICIENT, VERY CLEAN, VERY ORGANIZED. While in the facility I snapped pics of GMC Fishbowls, MCI and NovaBUS Classics, New Flyer D40HFs, El Dorado EZ-Riders, and a MCI D4000 Police Criuser Bus.
After the wonderful tour, I boarded a W-4 bus and headed back downtown, I pitter-pattered around downtown for about an hour, snapping photos, enjoyed a nice lunch. At 2:30, I headed back for the Bus/Rail Terminal where I waited my 3pm bus back to NYC. The bus came on-time and to my surprise, it was the same operator I had going to Hartford. We had Vermont MCI MC-12 #40912 which was ex-Greyhound #1956. He was once again fast and smooth. We arrived back at the PABT 10 minutes ahead of schedule.
It was only 5:30, so I needed to do more, so I headed upstairs to see what was happening on the NJ Transit front, I took a nice ride on one of the new MCI D4000 Cruisers on the 166 line to end my day.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Trevor, glad you enjoyed your trip to Hartford. Too bad you didn't have more time to spend there. You mentioned, "While in the facility I snapped pics of GMC Fishbowls..." What type of GM fishbowls do they have there? Were these some of their 1983 suburban seating models (8301-8333)? I had thought all fishbowls were gone from CT Transit.
Apparently, from some recent photos at transitworld.org (I think it was that site), there were a few GM Fishbowls at the Stamford Garage, probably being used as a contingency fleet.
Speaking of the CT fishbowls, they are actually GM Canada T8H-5308A model buses built in 1983 (remember, GM Canada still built the fishbowls into the mid-1980s; IIRC, the last US fishbowl was built in 1977-78).
BTW, were the Double A Tours Grummans part of the ConnDOT order of 1979-80? I have 101-262 (40 ft) and 501-618 (35 ft) listed as built for ConnDOT, but it didn't indicate where they were assigned. I thought maybe they went to CT Transit, but I'm not sure. (I also have 601-603 (40 ft) and 604-613 (35 ft) built for ConnDOT bus assinged to Southeast Area Transit District (SEAT) built in the same year.)
The numbering seems to indicate - to an extent - where these buses were originally assigned. This would explain why there are some gaps in the 90xx, 92xx, and 96xx series of Classics. Then again, I don't really know all that much about how the state of Connecticut allocates it's buses to the respective agencies.
If I remember correctly, Conn. DOT/CT Transit's original Grumman 870 order was for 280 buses, 165 forty footers and 115 thrity-five footers. Out of the forty footers, 101-220 or so were assigned to Hartford, 221-265 went to New Haven. For the thirty-five footers, 501-540 went to Hartford, with 541-615 in New Haven or Stamford (I believe the highest numbers were in Stamford). The SEAT buses you mentioned came in after the CT Transit buses, because I remember seeing them at the CT Transit Hartford facility before they were delivered to SEAT. Any Grummans that Double A has were probably purchased second-hand from CT Transit. Lafayette & Greenvile and Montgomery & Westside had a few CT Transit forty foot Grummans prior to the recent RTS deliveries.
The 1983 fishbowls CT Transit had (8301-8333) were very nice buses and ran well to the end, probably because they were used only for commuter express runs until the last year or two. Some wound up in Waterbury for a while until the 1996 RTS's arrived. There were 20 buses with transit seating in the 1983 order (8351-8370), with most going to New Britain Transportation and a few to Dattco. When I was at Lafayette & Greenville a few years back, they had a few of those 1983 fishbowls, both CT Transit and New Britain versions. I understand they recently purchased some second-hand Queens Surface RTS's, so I don't know whether they still have any of the 1983 fishbowls.
One additional note about the CT Transit Grummans - they had unique, white hard plastic seats that I have never seen on any other transit bus, and were fairly uncomfortable to sit in (even compared the the NYCity hard plastic seats).
I Would Like To Know Witch Route The Nova RTS 6360. Because I Would Like To Ride On That Bus One Day. Also What Happin To 8397? Is This Bus Is In Service?
6360 will most like show up on the same routes that I mentioned in the "MTA Orion VI" post. 8397 was retired and scrapped!!!!! I have shots of her, but have not posted them yet, when it comes time to post them I will post them here first then on TransiTALK.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
What they should have done is change 8397 to a diesel operated bus and send her back to Queens(QV to be exact with the rest of the high 8300's) I mean scrapping a bus that was only 10 yrs old .I caught her many moons ago as a methanol when CS was still mainly RTS's on the Q12 and she ran nice and fast down Northern Bl.
now that is Moronic and Totally Asinine. why was that bus scrapped. it was only recently converted to a hybrid
The reason why 8397 was scrapped was because the Hybrid Drive system it used was a total flop. It was the GM/Allison Hybrid Drive System. The system was beyond repair and would've costed more to fix than what it was worth. So this bus was sent out to Detroit Diesel in Bohemia and sat for a while. I believe now that it is scrapped, but #8397 will not return to service.
While our other Hybrids, the Orion VI HEV and the NovaBUS RTS-06 HEV uses the more reliable Lockheed Martin HybriDrive System.
Hope this information helps you!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitlak.com
thanks trevor that was abeatiful looking bus while it lasted and indeed shows ideocy abounds at nyct. what is happening with 6361-6364.also ive yet to see 2803-2804. have they been delivered.
NovaBUS RTS-06 HEV #6362-6364 are completed and are sitting down at NovaBUS in Roswell, NM. #6361 is at Altoona, PA right now being FTA tested.
MCI D4500 Cruiser #2803 is sitting at Piscataway, NJ Detroit Diesel while #2804 is sitting down at Hudson Body Co (Red & Tan of Jersey City). For what reasons I have no clue, I saw 2804 in person quite a few times and she looked fine.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
2804 is now in service. i saw it yesterday. thanks for the info. i guess it will be awhile before we see6361-6364.
Do the new MCIs and Artics have the new license plates? I was wondering because anything that has been brought in after 2000 has to have the new plate.
x27#2804Gary
no the mcis were a 2000 purchase as the artics were. no new orders have arrived. first buses with new plates will be 2805-2874. i bought a car in 2000 and got plates in late december. you can imagine my disappointment whewn i got the old plates.
Do Anybody Know when 6361 comming to The MTA?
I Don't Know When IT will come. But where Is 8397?
Who Know's Where 8397 Is?
#6361 is in Altoona PA, probably before months end it'll be here. I stated in this same previous post that #8397 is out in Bohemia, SCRAPPED!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I was always interested to find out if the 1962 New York City Transit Authority General Motors Fishbowl buses in the 2001- 2174 fleet roster were exactly the same as the 1963 GM TDH-5303 TA buses in the 3301- 3950 fleet series?
The 2100 series were TDH5301's.
If you look at the factory tailgates (which ARE interchangesable), you will see the TDH5301 engine tailgate has more "styling" to it. The TDH5303 has lamp fixtures only down each side, less maintenance and less cost (and better looking as on the TDH5301's, the plastic trim pieces always got broken....)
If you look at the standee windows, they go further forward on the "first generation" buses (TDH5301/5302 and TDH4516/4517). It was quickly found after these buses went onto any sort of rough roads, the front ends would start sagging, as there was less support in the forward areas. (The main "frame" support of the new looks was through the roof and sides -- the floors were cantilevered from the upside-down "U" shaped mainframe members as I understand.)
Offhand, I can't think of any other differences, but I am sure there were numerous changes from the first to second generations that were NOT visible on the outside.
Just wanted to add that the marker lights also made it easy to tell the first and second generation GMC buses apart.
Wayne
Good point! I completely forgot about those roof markers.
It seems to be a good indication to discern between the first and second generations units....BUT between the second and third, it is NOT. San Diego Transit had an order of 50 TDH5303's (the last 5303's built) and those came with marker lights like the third/fourth generation fishbowls. And then Southern Califonria Rapid Transit District order 100 T8H5307A's in 1973, and another 200 in 1974, and those all came with chromed bullet lamps!!!
GM offered the cast aluminum housing that held the Michigan Markers, normally associated with the first series, all the way up through the end of US production (not sure about GMDD production) as an extra cost option starting in 1963. Very few ordered it but there were a few including Martucci Bus Lines out of NJ on their T6H5308N bus ordered in 1972.
Yes, I've heard about some of those TDH-5303 that had markers like the third and fourth generation. There weren't really any around NYC that I know of... except - there were a few buses at Command that at the time I thought they were T6H-5305A/6A (Can't remember if they were 96's or 102's), but despite their third/fourth generation markers the standee windows had the white rubber strips which I've always associated with first and second generation fishbowls.
I always thought that SCRTD was doing their own thing and getting those markers as a "custom" item.
Wayne
The 1962 models had 48 seats, front and rear halves in the same acqua green fiberglass color. The 1963 models had 46 seats, the front ones in grey and the rear ones in red.
Seating layout was the same unique NYCTA early 60s style layout in both, longitudinal in front, transverse in rear.
The 1963s were the first equipped new with the newer style Johnson Fare Boxex - the 1962s and earlier models had the old 1940s style fare boxes. Later on they were all equipped with the newer boxes.
Those 1963 NYCTA TDH-5303 seemed to be identical to MABSTOA's (3300-3555, 5200-5525) except MABSTOA's of course didn't have grey seats.
Anyone know why TA's TDH-5303 & T6H-5305A had grey seats while OA's TDH-5303 had green seats???
Wayne
No but it was the same deal on the 5303A's ;8001-8202 had grey seats ;while 8301-8780 had mainly green seats. (except for the ones that had the suburban seating;which #'s I haven't clue except Muesuem bus 8466 & fishbowl 8370 when it finished up it career at QV.)
Only and few of MABSTOA's TDH-5303-AC's were converted to express buses. I don't know them all but a few of them were...
8366, 8368, 8370, 8372-3, 8375-6
Wayne
Is currently in the QV paint and decal area being dressed and prepped for service. The farebox has been installed and the radio set to queens console. Should be in service by the end of the week.
QV
Are MTA getting more buses from Scarp Yard to put on service in the future? Why don't MTA remanufacturing RTS buses so they won't get any buses from Scarp Yard. BTW: that bus will last for few weeks than heading back to Scarp Yard for second time.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Better yet why doesn't the TA order some New Flyer D40HF(or D40LF's) or NABI 416's instead for the Queens Depots being that they aren't going converted for alternative fuel buses any time soon
No, remanufacturing RTS buses is cheaper and with good maintenence they can last just as long as a new bus. Of course, they'd have to replace the 6v92TAs (71s in the 1983 RTS buses) with the Series 50s.
They could remanufacture 30 of the 1983 buses, 40 of the 1984 buses, 100 of the 1985 buses, 150 of the 1986 buses, and 180 of the 1987 buses, then you'd have 500 remanufactured buses at about 75,000 dollars a bus for a total of 3.75 million dollars. Now, if you're buying 500 brand new buses at 250,000 a bus you get a total of 12.5 million dollars. You save about 9 million dollars remanufacturing a bus to good as new standards. It may cost a bit more than 75,000 dollars to reman an RTS bus, but I know it's cheaper than most new buses.
I want to know why Yukon Depot give up Orion #6250-#6328 to Castleton Depot & getting couple RTS Buses? Are Yukon Depot turning into Express Depot? I look at MTA Bus Roster from 12/99 & Yukon Depot have the total 381 buses & now total over 315 buses. What is going on?
Peace Out
David Justiniano
The same thing that's going on at ENY with the 1999 Nova's(125 to be exact)meaning they have 1/3 of that order.