A large-windowed bus with topless women inside touring Manhattan to promote a website yesterday was busted for causing a “public alarm”, presumably by getting too close to President Clinton’s motorcade. Stories in the Daily News and Times.
What would the Prez done if Monica was on that bus ?? Imagine that traffic jam
If his motorcade went past the bus he should have given it his classic thumbs up. However I think Hillary left standing orders for the seceret service to keep naked women at least 1500 feet away from her hubby.
Having listened to the stunt on WNEW all afternoon (it was an Opie and Anthony stunt) they had already gone from Carnegie Hall to the Battery, with a stop at City Hall. The general suggestion is (since WNEW hosts have been covering it on and off all day) is that the orders to stop the bus came down from the Mayor and/or chief of department. The bus was stopped on its uptown trip at 40th and 6th. Initially, O&A thought it was a prank, since they had an NYPD escort until the Midtown South Task Force cancelled the party. As of 11AM, the persons arrested included 6 girls, 2 radio station staffers, and two comedians, Lewis Black and someone Norton, are still in 'The Tombs' according to the Radio Chick. O&A usually ends at 7PM, they were still on the air at 7:45. Don and Mike are tape-delayed from DC, and I never tuned in to Ron and Fez to see if there was an update last night.
-Hank
was the person arrested ed norton. was ralph driving. hardeharharhar.
Should be Manhattan South Task Force. Midtown South is the precient, Manhattan South is the command.
I also left out that the driver was arrested as well.
-Hank
this could be a classic honeymooners episode. how would ralph explain this to alice.
Although off topic - the obvious answer to Alice would be --Hummina, Hummina, Hummina.
Opie and Anthony Rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I SAW THE BUS!! I was on BWAY and 33rd St with a cop and saw people chasing the bus. Cant believe the cops arrested the people on board. I was told they would have to stay in jail at least 24 hours before charges are pressed. afterwards, 2-3 days at most.
did this bus actually pick up passengers as it made a round trip on the m6 route. nyct may press charges for franchise infringement. were these passengers arrested for fare evasion.
For those interested, here is a different take on the subject,
NAKED WOMEN ON A BUS
Peace,
ANDEE
This person appears to be a Lynn Samuels listener! I caught her show a couple of weeks ago on a Saturday night while driving home from work. I nearly lost control of the car with her extreme LIBERAL views!
Last night on News 12, there was a report that an out-of-state bus wandered on to the Northern State Parkway in error. The driver apparently realized that the lanes were too narrow and bridges too low. He reported swerved into an adjoining lane and was rear-ended by a car.
The bus was carrying athletes from South Carolina to an event at SUNY-Stony Brook. No reports of injuries but the camera shot from a distant showed that it was an MCI Rennasiance E. Could not tell what company.
There is nothing in the Huntington edition of Newsday today and nothing on the News 12 Website, probably because of the man being struck by an LIRR train at the Syosset Station only 4 miles to the north.
A professional driver (bus or truck) should have the prescenece of mind to know that 9 times out 10, parkway clearences are not very friendly to commercial vehicles. The only PARKWAY i can think of off the top of my head that is completely "bus-friendly" is the Baltimore-Washongton Pkwy (MD state hwy 295). This is the route for most Greyhounds/Peter Pans heading to DC or bypassing DC. Trucks are allowed on the parkway only between BWI airport and downtown baltimore.
The report said that the bus was carrying students from a South Carolina University to Stony Brook. The picture was a frontal shot from about 100 - 125 away. The bus was white in front with no markings. Stupidly, I didn't try to make out the license plate, so I don't know whether it was a local company or from down South. My guess is that it is a company from SC and the got lost. Why would he be entering at South Oyster Bay Road E/B ???? He should have been on the LIE out to exit 62.
The only other thought is that perhaps the team was staying at the Comfort Inn on SOB Rd (South of Old Country near the Gruman Propetry).
Several months ago friends came up from Fla. and stayed in this particlar establishment. While they were there a team from UMASS-Lowell stayed there.
You will see trucks on the B-W Parkway south of the airport -- but ONLY the trucks of the US Postal Service. They are allowed on the road as it is part of the National Park System. The NPS Police are almost always out there somewhere working radar along the B-W Parkway.
There are parkways all over the NYC region but they're very uncommon elsewhere. In many places there are highways known as parkways that have no truck or bus restrictions at all.
I believe the NY "parkway" system was designed and implemented by our favorite son Robert Moses, who was very pro-auto but anti-commercial. However, I believe we can travel the entire length of the GCP from the city line over the Triborough. NYC buses do have parkway permits, so legalaties aren't an issue; height restrictions are. At 10'6" max height (less loaded) I believe we clear all overpasses on the GCP, but wouldn't go further than Queens Blvd without prior authorization.
Buses are allowed on the GCP? Then why hasn't the TA moved the M60 onto the GCP, at least during rush hour? When busy, those local stops make for an awful ride.
What do you know about buses and the Henry Hudson Parkway (between 79th Street and the GWB)? Wait, I take back half the question: I can assure you that they fit. But I doubt the charter bus I was on had the relevant permit for the HHP, if one exists at all. (Of course, the M79 uses the loop at the entrance to the HHP to turn around, but it doesn't get on the highway itself.
Hi David, great to see you again (well, your text anyway)!
You wrote:
"Buses are allowed on the GCP?"
Yes, the TA deadhead and run on for the Q46 is via the GCP. Also, most northernmost run-off's/run-on's are via CIP.
"Then why hasn't the TA moved the M60 onto the GCP, at least during rush hour? When busy, those local stops make for an awful ride."
Are you asking me to justify the mind-numbing logic of the TA?! David.... I'm suprised at you!! Honestly speaking though, I'm not familiar with the route. Usually a "local bus" will not utilize a highway unless absolutely necesary, however the M98 which is _technically_ a "local" bus does use the FDR.... go figure!
"What do you know about buses and the Henry Hudson Parkway (between 79th Street and the GWB)?"
I know we do have restrictions where the HH is concerned. There is (or is supposed to be) a permit affixed to the panel behind the driver. If you have a chance to view one, the HH restrictions are listed there. I don't know them offhand because I no longer drive in Manhattan. If you'd like, I'll jot down the permit and post it here.
Let me know.
"Wait, I take back half the question:"
Now he tells me..... *sigh* LOL!
"I can assure you that they fit. But I doubt the charter bus I was on had the relevant permit for the HHP, if one exists at all."
The NYSDOT issues permits for buses where parkway operation is concerned. I can't say for sure which permit (if any) the operator had. I can only offer what NYCT is allowed via permit.
"(Of course, the M79 uses the loop at the entrance to the HHP to turn around, but it doesn't get on the highway itself."
The Q2 uses the same principle at Belmont Park. The turn-around is via the CIP entrance, then Hempstead exit. It never actually operates on the parkway itself (unless we violate the rules and pull-in via Jamaica Ave, rather than Springfield Blvd.... {wink} LOL!)
A lot of the NJT buses from Central/South Jersey (ie. US 9 Corridor service and #319 Atlantic City/NYC) use the express lanes of the Garden State Pkwy between Exit 105 (where all commercial vehicles are supposed to exit) and the NJ Turnpike. Plus, one of the Wheels rts (I think 979) operates via the Pkwy as far north as Irvington Terminal.
Buses are allowed on the full length of the GSP. Only trucks are banned north of 105.
-Hank
I once saw tons of buses on the Palisades Interstate Parkway (IIRC only on the New Jersey section). Only once. Strange. Usually there are no buses at all.
Boy Scouts going to Camp Alpine, maybe.
-Hank
There were dozens of buses. Were they all going to Camp Alpine? And, assuming buses generally aren't permitted on the PIP, couldn't they use US 9W?
BUSES WITH PERMITS RIDE THE PSP TO GET TO BEAR MOUNTAIN. SCHOOL GROUPS...ETC CAN GET THEM YOU CAN GET ON AT THE GEORGE WASHINGTON BRIDGE AND RIDE UP TO BEAR MOUNT OR WEST POINT
Thanks, but that doesn't entirely answer my question. Usually I don't see a single bus on the PIP. Once I saw dozens, in both directions, and only in New Jersey. Did the entire school go (in two shifts!) or something?
Bee Line rush-hour express buses are allowed on the Sprain Parkway from Central Avenue in Yonkers all the way to the last exit before its northern terminus in Hawthorne. There are periodic signs reading "BUSES NEXT ___ MILES".
The Sprain was built in stages from 1963(?) to 1980, so it's much newer than other Westchester parkways. There's no winding curves, clustered exits, short acceleration lanes or low stone-arch overpasses; in fact it's really indistinguishable from the Thruway. This makes it very bus-friendly. The Sprain also serves as a good bypass of Central Avenue (wall-to-wall shopping centers through Yonkers and Hartsdale) for buses headed into Northern Westchester, which is generally defined as above the Cross Westchester.
But it's not a NYC parkway.
-Hank
[But it's not a NYC parkway.]
Neither is the Northern State Parkway, which is what started this thread. (The Northern State becomes the Grand Central in New York City.) New York City parkways are not the only ones that prohibit commercial vehicles.
R36 #9346, your website is currently giving a 404 error on her. I was trying to check the site out for updates when it read that the file was not found.
A NOTE TO ALL BusTalkers: PLEASE DO NOT get annoyed at this message. I know it's only addressed to a particular person but if he had his email address in check, then this message would not be necessary. This is a 1 time thing-if I got anyone mad because of this message, then I apologize!
very numerous in pages
if anyone wants a particular route,,let me know which route you need for 1122200 and or 11232000
Steve
Flx7595, I'm afraid to tell you this news, but while riding on the 7 train going homeward, I saw 1742 sitting alone with 998 alone Viking and Training bus 6179 alone in College Point Storage. I think she's retired. She's been havong problems from what I heard. Also 101-146 are replacing the 1742 and 1745 there. However, I don't see 1745 in CP Storage, so that's some good news.
Yes I can confirm that PA1742 is dead and awaiting transport to its final resting place. PA1745 is the sole-surviving 1982 coach in Stengel.
Mark
perhaps all us bustalkers should go there for a shiva/wake call.
Sweet sentiment at this holiday season. I'd be pleased if someone pours out a beer or some window washing fluid on the curb as a toast.
You mean she's going back to Jamaica?
(yes, that was low..)
Well, let me know where she goes in the end. Maybe they'll take Viking 998 and Training bus 6179 (does that bus even still work - and is that her original number?)
Thank you for the sad, but true update. I'll light a novena tomorrow. With all the Orion Express coaches (I saw at least 11 on local routes at rush hour) I am not surprised. She was a good bus, ran well on the X51 in her day.
Flx7595
saw #2771 and #2774 today. #2771 had the Ulmer Park logo while #2774 did not. both were running on the X27 line. About time Ulmer Park got new MCI buses. I heard they are starting up a new express route, the #X26 and UP is losing the b6. Is this true?
Nothing but rumors.
the following were spotted on the gowanus. 2764,2765,2767,2770-2772 and 2774. also believe i saw 2789 but not sure. passing ulmer park noted three tracks with mci buses.
Buses 101-146 are at CS due in large part to the fact that many of their 1993 Orions--23 to be exact--are in GH or 207th Street Base Shops for engine changes to Series 50 power. So as the hard-seaters make their return to NE Queens, you will likely see the excess Orions disappear.
More TA waste, by the way, as 4191 is now sitting in Edgewater Storage yard on Staten Island. This bus was in CS up until last week with no ads and looking brand spanking new.
Mark
And yet a junky-looking bus like 4448 still runs about CS. Go figure!
Thank God I got my pics of 4191 last week when I did. Now I'll have to hunt for 1745 and 4448 while they're still pushing. I also wonder-will some CS Express Orions go back to CAS? I doubt that YUK will take those Orions back. And yet since they're preferred by most of the CS Operators from what I heard, maybe they'll keep mostof them around. Reason being is that the Coaches are running on the weekends. A few days ago, the Q12 and Q26 were just about All 100 Express Suburban Coaches except for the fact of a few 6100s. I got on 6134 Wednesday on the Q26 and the other buses there were 130, 138 and 107. So far from what I see, they don't look too bad-if they're here a while then we shall see what shabby condition they're in.
Q26#139Gary
4191 didn't seem to be in bad shape at all. Sounded and looked better than 4448 - and had the soft-seats inside. 4448 (saw her yesterday) sounds like she's seen her best days behind her.
flx7595 (no, I'm not changing my handle to GMC1742)
Saw only 2 suburbans last nite running out of CS -133 on the 13 and 143 on the 48
I watched a commercial on TV this morning about a personal massage product. In the commercial the main character who is a masseuse boards and deboards ex-NYCTA RTS #2606 a couple of times. One scene features a close-up of the bus with the number and run sign (which reads XXX) clearly visible. According to TransiTalk's bus roster the bus was sold to Blue Water Bus Center Inc. along with a number of other RTS's.
I saw the same commercial and wondered if I'd ever driven that bus. Back in 1995, I was assigned to Manhattanville Depot where we had a large fleet of 2600's, so I reviewed my bus log and found that I hadn't. I did however drive 2616, among a host of other 2600's :-)
QV
Speaking of TV, if anybody watches "Sex in the city" on HBO, there is an RTS shown during the opening credits. Does anyone know the number? It looks like PA???
Some news of interest for bus buffs who may be traveling up Boston way.
Effective December 1, the MBTA is now issuing bus to bus transfers for the first time in it's history.This was brought about as a result of the fare increase that took effect in September 2000. Many riders spoke out at public hearings held regarding the rate hike, complaining that having to pay full fare on one bus and having to pay full fare again when transferring to a second bus would be a hardship to transit dependent low income riders. It was also mentioned at these hearings that most transit systems in major cities have a bus transfer policy in place.
MBTA transfers are free, good for 2 hours from time of issue, can be used on all local routes or travel on first zone of zoned routes (cash fare to be paid for difference on zoned routes) and cannot be used on express routes.
The MBTA website has a link on it's home page with complete bus to bus transfer info. the url is www.mbta.com
Mark Watson
A system the size of Boston's and you guys never had X-fer's.and i thought New york was out of the stone age finally when we got Bus-to-Subway X-fer's 2or 3 yrs ago.
The MBTA's bus fare was only 50 cents. Taking two buses there back then and now still costs less than one TA bus ride.
I thought somewhere along the line, the 50 cent fare had gone up to 60 cents. With the Sept. fare hike, I believe the fare went up to 75 cents, with the subway fare going from 85 cents up to $1.00.
The MBTA still does not offer bus to subway transfers (and vice versa) on 99.9 % of the system. There are a few bus routes that have transfers to subway available, this a result of the Orange Line's relocation south of Downtown Boston in 1987. Several stations were closed and relocated when the Orange Line "EL" was torn down.The following bus routes that run in the areas around the old Orange Line service area have transfers to subways available, as do the 3 "CT" (limited stop Crosstown) routes as noted in the following list:
Route 1 (Harvard/Dudley) Passengers may pay an additional .25 ($1 total fare) outbound from Dudley Sq. and Boston Medical Ctr.to Mass Ave.Station and receive a transfer to the Orange Line at Mass Ave Station. No fare is charged toward Dudley Sq.and Boston Medical Ctr.for subway passengers presenting the bus operator w/a transfer from the subway at Mass.Ave Station.
Route 39 (Forset Hills/Back Bay) Passengers may pay an additional .25 ($1 total fare) and receive a transfer vaild on the Orange Line at Back Bay station or the Green Line at Copley Station. Fare is free outbound for passengers boarding with a transfer from the subway at Back bay or Copley Stations.
Route 49 (Dudley/Downtown) Passengers may request a free transfer from the bus operator valid on the Orange Line at New England Medical Ctr. Station. Fare is free for passengers boarding with a transfer from the subway at New England Medical Ctr. Station or the bus stop at the Surface Artery.
CT 1 (Central/B.U.Medical Ctr.), CT 2 (Kendall/Ruggles) , and CT 3 (Beth Israel/Andrew) Passengers may pay an additional .25 ($1 total fare) and receive a transfer valid on the Blue Line at Airport Station, the Hynes/ICA and Symphony Stations on the Green Line, Ruggles,Mass Ave. and Sullivan Sq.Stations on the Orange Line, and Andrew, Central, and Kendall Stations on the Red Line.
Mark Watson
A system the size of Boston's and you guys never had X-fer's.and I thought New York was out of the stone age finally when we got Bus-to-Subway X-fer's 2or 3 yrs ago.
does anyone on this web site know delivery dates and assignments for these 70 mci buses?
These buses delivery is set for late March/Early April!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Some might goto Ulmer Park for sirvice on the X28, or all to SI with SI sending the older one coming the Ulmer Park.
Robert
Haven't been here is quite some time. Just checking in... looking for anything I might be able to assist with, but there isn't anything (basically because you all know more about buses than I do-- hey I just drive 'em!) so I figured I'd say "hi".
Oh, and Gary, if you read this, let me know when you want to tour QV. Weekends are best, as I've said.
Hope you're all doing well...
QV
Wait, there's been a contest going on for the last 1982 RTS bus in serive. So far, 1742 and 1746 have been retired, I picked 1767, how is she doing. Still in service I hope?
Welcome back. I hope you haven't been driving any of those crappy Orions. You wouldn't sell out on any of us RTS fans would you? :)
There is nothing wrong the 95 Orion Suburbans at QV.I had the transit version tonight out of CS(507) and the heater on that bus was treat compared to the 93 Orion(265)which was like an icebox(had 507 on the 20A and 265 on the 76)
"Wait, there's been a contest going on for the last 1982 RTS bus in serive. So far, 1742 and 1746 have been retired, I picked 1767, how is she doing. Still in service I hope?"
Well as far as I know, 1767 is still on the far express tracks ready and willing.... I'll take a look Monday morning and let you know.
"Welcome back. I hope you haven't been driving any of those crappy Orions. You wouldn't sell out on any of us RTS fans would you? :)"
Thanks!
The reason I went to QV rather than Flushing was because of the Orion bus. I don't like anything about that bus other than the cold AC in the summer. The only time I'm forced behind the wheel of that atrocity is on my bi-annual road evaluation (which is due this year).
As I've said earlier, my personal choice is the RTS 8000-8567 series. Remember though, many of these 8000's are nearly 10 years old now. Not quite the buses they once were, but that's due to lack of maintenence :-(
I'm at the point now where I can *almost* pick my bus for the day. What was the best "8" we had (#8385) has slowly become a "dog" as we call them... sadly.
#8355, #8357, #8369, #8374, #8379, #8380, #8383, #8385, and #8388 are all lazy starting 8's, and I avoid those if I can. I'd prefer #8384, #8387, #8389, #8390, #8395 and #8396 but usually wind up with 837x or an 836x (adequate).
Anyway, NO!!! I wouldn't drive that Orion unless I was forced to :-) Since I never pick the X, or and extra there, I won't be sitting in that boat anytime soon!
One final note regarding those 4900's we have: They are worse than any bus I have ever driven, and would rather have a "lazy 8" than a 4900/9300 series, basically because those buses can't be "dumped". If you try, they will default to neutral and you'll be there longer than you would, had you let the rear doors close automatically. The only time I have to drive them is when I pick a hawk. All hawks receive a 49/93 bus.
QV
When I was in Q.V. back in 1995, I remember 8388 being a slow turtle from back then. I guess some things just never change.
Also, Queens Villiage BO, you can find out which 1700's are still in service by checking the most accurate bus roster available on:
WWW.transitalk.org, compliments of Mark Holmes & Trevor Logan.
BIG AL
I'm sure this will make RTS 2150's day. 1746 is still sitting on the side not being dismantled or anything. In fact it still runs and drives, along with 3870 and 3881. All 3 of these buses are just sitting along the walls in Jamaica depot, fully intact minus the fareboxes and radios. 3881 had 1 front door removed but nothing else. I get the feeling it is possible that if we do not get any more new Nova coaches in any time soon and there is a service increase when the winter pick goes into effect, these buses could return to service. So far we haven't received in any express Novas from Ulmer Park. From what I've been reading, U.P. seems to have plenty of MCI's now. (3 track fulls!)
So can someone please tell me why the remaining 1700's in the fleet don't seem to be going anywhere?
BIG AL
Bwahahahahahahahahaha! I knew 1746 wouldn't go out without a fight! With greedy UP holding on to it's express Novas and MCIs it won't be long before PA1746 is tearing up the streets of Queens again!
But seriously though, I read somewhere on this board that UP is reducing the runs on the X27. This means that possibly they will get rid of some Novas and send them over to you guys. Or maybe they'll send them to Stengal to be used on local routes and the people on the X63 and X64 will be blessed with the infamous PA1746, the freshly painted 3870 and the indifferent 3881!. Ha! I crack myself up!
CS will not get any Nova RTS suburbans(despite the fact it has an RTS on its depot emblem).They will just give TLC to the suburbans Orions that YUK or CAS couldn't provide.
Welcome Back! It's always nice to have an 'insider' post here. Consider yourself lucky that you don't have the 'honor' or driving those QV Orions. They certainly aren't up to QV Standards! (at least not yet anyway)
Since QV is tops in maintenance, you may want to cast your bet on the last remaining 1982 RTS, a contest that was started in your absence. I say it's going to be a close call between 1819 and 1852.
"Welcome Back!"
Thanks Mark! Glad to see everyone again :-)
"It's always nice to have an 'insider' post here. Consider yourself lucky that you don't have the 'honor' or driving those QV Orions. They certainly aren't up to QV Standards! (at least not yet anyway)"
Actually, I consider you all the real insiders.... you all know much more about the goings-on than I do!! Like I always say, "I just drive 'em"!!
"Since QV is tops in maintenance, you may want to cast your bet on the last remaining 1982 RTS, a contest that was started in your absence. I say it's going to be a close call between 1819 and 1852."
Technically tops via statistics, yes, however, that's just the MDBF stat. There are many other ways to judge BM. Most of our jalopies are held together with epoxy and a prayer :-)
Anyway, about this contest.... I'm going to review the original post (if I can find it- is it still on the board?) then offer my HO.... but of course, I'm partial to 1767 (umm... is that an 82?¿ LOL)
What are the remaining bus numbers in service? If this has already been posted, I'll find it.
QV :-)
I was on the HBLR passing the bus scrap yard behind the car barn.
Most of the Grumman-Flxibles that have been there for several months are now gone. The only question is Where?
Also, I saw a number of Academy MC-9As (or 9Js???) parked there also. I know that Academy didn't have that many of them, so they could all be retired now.
I'm really going to miss those buses when they're all gone!
Yeah, they're pushing 20, but they still have a lot of life left in them!
Word on the street is that all the Grumman Flixible 870-b's are at Nimco Scrap Yard in Newark. But if you do look around there are still some of those babys running around, If you go to Red & Tan you will see that they have a bunch, they recently purchased EX South Orange buses 1589 1593 and 2184 and are prepping to run in there Newark airport shuttle. There are still a couple of Flixibles there but they sit all the way in the back of the lot. Laffayette and Greenville are still running 2112 and 2277, they are still in active service. Also, Academy's 2052 is still hanging around in their Hoboken facility. Academy has a bunch of MCI's there, also Suburban Eagles 5591 and 5593 are sitting at the facility as well. So I guess those buses are out as well. May they all reat in peace.
Tone
I heard on the news today that the Newark Airport Monorail repair job is running ahead of schedule and that the Monorail should be up and running by year-end. If you want those free rides on the ex-NYC Grumman 870's that Red and Tan has in service on the substitute bus service, you better get over to Newark Airport real soon.
My heading says it all. I have not seen an Orion in GBL with a working destination sign in weeks now. I have to wonder how the operators deal with the people constantly asking them "WHAT BUS IS THIS?" Now matter how many signs you plaster on your windows they will still bother you about that. Is there maintainence that bad that they don't know how to fix the signs, or just can't get parts? I see quite a few N91's pulling into JFK with no working signs also. Also, I have 2 questions about Nassau county buses maybe John or somebody can answer.
1) LI buses do not have any run # boxes in the front windshield. So how do the dispatchers know which run is which if the buses get bunched, if that ever happens?
2) I have NEVER seen one of the new Orions (#288 and up) running on the N91(JFK Flyer) Why is that? Just curious.
BIG AL
GBL does have a few Orions with working signs you just have to look carefully( they usually on the trips out of the 165 st Term.).And remember Al it LIBus your talking about;expect the unexpected.
I do look carefully at the GBL's. I've made it a point to check the Orions just to see if the signs are working. And all the ones I see are always broken. Like I said, I've noticed this for about 2 weeks now.
BIG AL
When they work, they look great! However, on the streets of NYC, I don't think delecate electronics are going to last very long. Because of the IFC system, not only do the actual signs have to be maintained, but the farebox as well. How many times have you been on a bus and watched that farebox slamming into the radio console, or sidebar? Every time a bus is "sucked", the farebox is loosened that much more. Every pothole, speedbump, etc. loosen the box.
I think the LCD signs look better than the flip-dots, but for reliability, can you beat the old scrolling signs?
Ahhhh....... progress!
What kind of buses are they using on the JFK Flyer now? Are any of the 35-foot Gilligs (500-519) left, or were they all retired along with the 40-foot Gilligs? If they are using Orion CNG's 287 and lower, it would seem strange not to see one of the newer CNG's there.
I was out on the #N91 trip on November 15 and they are NOT running any Gilligs anywhere. I was on a Thomas #705 on the n91 trip and i saw a Orion #588 going the opposite direction on the N91.
The Gillags are being with replaced with the current order of Orions
I thought the Thomas buses were already retired.
Anyway, last year, LIBus was using the cutaway minibuses on the N91 JFK Flyer (what we in Philly refer to as the "Breeze" series).
Oh they are still using those Thomas buses. I saw one at HTC last time I was there. Only LI Bus could justify running such a piece of crap. I'd rather ride a Gillig than a school, ooops, Thomas bus.
Up here in Utica, we have Thomas's on the Express runs between Utica and Rome, operated by Utica Rome Transit. The A/C never worked, heat is horrible, seats are uncomfortable, and the ride sucks. It feels like you are riding on a school bus. Rememeber when you were young and the school bus would go over a bump, everyone in the back would jump up off their seats, we lived for those big bumps. I don't like it now that I'm older, and riding those buses is not great at all. I was happy that Coach USA bought Utica-Rome and we got MCI's on those runs now!
-B61 Leonard
Most times I've seen it they are using diesel Orions (500s and 600s), this also goes for the Hub shuttle. The Gilligs are gone for good (sigh).
Even 5503 with it's bright orange Ballios sign was dark for a few days. I thought it fell victim to GBL's "maintenance". But she's back and as bright as ever!
Personally observed GBL Orions with working signs:
5501
5503
5545 {Ex QSC 700 :-(}
5550 {Ex QSC 705 :-(}
I'm sure there are at least *five* more, but these are the ones that stick in my mind since I see them almost everyday.
I was driving along Queens Boulevard yesterday, and saw one (out of about 4) Orion whose sign was working; unfortunately, I didn't catch the number. It had me fooled a little, because it still had the paper sign in the front window. I guess all GBL Orion drivers take along the paper signs as standard operating equipment!
I was on 5531 last night on the Q60. Sign was not working-what else is new. 5523 also paper sign on her.
Q60#5514Gary-paper sign.
I peeped at 6 Orions today from GBL. 4 of them had no working signs.
2 actually had working signs, #5524 & #5533. I was in total shock seeing them as it seems strange seeing any Orion from GBL with working signs.
BIG AL
Those must be WMATA ones that are having those problems. Hey, I have an idea, how about we send some Orions up there and they can "accidentally" fall into the East River, as I heard happened to one of the loaned WMATA buses back in the early 80's. My ex boss was an the head of bus opeations at WMATA then and he told me this happened.
It wasn't the East River they fell into.Those buses (the New Look Flexibles)did a gainer in to New York Harbor.The depot they were assigned to(Edgewater)was 2 coverted piers that had sustained damage due to a fire.Because of this incident Edgewater was condemed and YUK was constucted.
Are you talking about the WMATA rejects or the CNG Orions? If it's the GBL Orions that were originally destined for WMATA, then I'm not surprised. Those signs are probably the worst I have ever seen on a bus.
I was wondering the same thing. The WMATA buses, 4200-4414 and the 30' foot Orions in the 3900 series have a lot of problems with those signs. Either they don't work at all, get stuck on "Not In Service", but still have the route number, or will come up with some cryptic message. I think a lot of those problems have been worked out, but I stll seem errors every once in awhile. The mechanism to change the signs don't look like anything I've seen on any example through TranistTalk or anything else for that matter. It looks like its a small computer built into the upper left hand side of the driver compartment. I hate Orions anyways, so this may be more of me griping about the bus as a whole.
I feel sorry for any operator who has to drive these rolling toasters for a living. I'm thankful University of Maryland had mainly Flxibles when I used to drive for them in college!
As I've said a couple of times before: WMATA ran out of money on their big bus purchase order, so Orion went looking for someone else to buy the last bunch of coaches. They found a few operators. nycDOT bought 50, all of which are now at Green. Orion also has dropped the Destination sign maker of these 50 from bidding on future orders, because they too were not satisfied with their product.
BTW, these buses also have unique seats, i.e. soft, which is another problem item.
Mr t__:^)
>BTW, these buses also have unique seats, i.e. soft, which is another problem item.
Mr t__:^)
Is the problem item with the seats the very fact that they are soft and thus susceptible to vandalism or is it something else like they fall apart under tush?
I must be in the minority here in thinking these Orions were actually a good deal for the privates in that they have soft enough seats for express service, but seem durable enough for local routes. FWIW, didn't Jamaica's recently departed Grummans have soft seats also?
I'm curious as to what other BusTalkers think: Should the Orions have gone to JBL. Here's why I think so:
1) The need for a newer fleet at JBL.
2) Maintenance that kept the Grummans hummin' for 20 years.
3) Transferring among GBL, JBL and CTC would ultimately have
have each operator with a more unified fleet.
[Is the problem item with the seats the very fact that they are soft and thus susceptible to vandalism or is it something else like they fall apart under tush?]
soft/vandalism ... Mr t
I have no idea why LI Bus has no ID boxes in the front windshield. Perhaps LI Bus doesn't have tight headways on most of their routes.
As far as the N91 JFK Flyer goes, now that the Gilligs are gone I guess they use mostly diesel Orions. The N91 is a low priority route I guess, so they get the old buses.
I think there should not be any Cummins buses running on the N20/21. They can't handle the loads and the hills. LI Bus really needs to put more of a priority on the N21.
The Cummins buses can run on the south shore, but the north shore really needs those new Orions.
Yesterday I saw a caught and saw a few buses that fell into this catorgory.GBL 634 signed for the 41 to X-Bay/164th on front-35 to Nostrand Ave Sta on side,GBL 1170 front and side for Q11 back QM15.The only one I saw was LIBus184 21 to Glen Cove front and side -N22 on back
Does anyone know if the pick will be posted tomorrow, 12/4? I hear that the union is still protesting it.
Not sure about the Brooklyn Division pick, but the issues concerning the Queens pick have been resolved. As such, we will begin picking on December 11th. The pick is scheduled to take effect on Sunday, January 14th, 2000.
I know this doesn't answer your question, but it does provide relative info for Queens :-)
QV
Are there any 1982 remans that are now 7000/7500 series buses? If so, would these qualify as one of the last remaining "1982" buses?
I know that a few are 2500/2600 series buses, but don't know if any fall under the 1982 series.
Anyway, I'll go with 1767.... chances are, you'll see it chugging along the Pike somewhere long after ther rest are scrapped :-)
QV
There are several 1982 coaches that are now "remans", but for purposes of the contest, we will just go with the 1982 expresses. This week, PA1742 and PA1846 have been put to rest.
Mark
This gets to me a lot. I have seen Queens Surface and Green Lines operations local orion buses and express orion buses(they dont split them up-express buses on local routes and vice versa).
However, I have noticed that Triboro Coach buses look disgusting. The orions they have had so much scratched windows on them, probably because they were on local routes or becasue they had no room in their garage. Is Triboro expected to get newer buses to replace some of their RTS buses? I know it is the same owner that owns most of the privaste lines, but why hasnt tribro got newere buses for local service?
Another thing is alot of replacement pieces on the tail lights and it seems to be the same piece on every Orion at CTC.
I'm sure they'll get new buses eventually, but so what? They'll look like hell after a few weeks anyway! Look at their 1985/86 RTS'. The overwelming majority of them are in their original paint! They look like they've spent their whole life in some third world country.
It certainly is a sore spot to see the Orion CNG's at Triboro being used in local service. It is not uncommon to see them plying the Q18, Q23, Q29, Q38 and Q53. Adding to the problem is the lack of secure storage facilities over at Triboro. If one were to go by at night, you'll see plenty of Orions parked out on the street in rather isolated areas. Based on previous posts, I'm sure over at Yukon the same situation exists, but perhaps someone is on a look out post of some sort, as I'm sure the MCI's are *way* too valuable to be left out.
There were posts a while back that after Queens Surface finished getting the local CNG Orions that a few swaps may be in order. Until that happens, sadly, those Express Orions will continue to take a beating on local routes. Not only will you see the scratched glass, but a few coaches have recently been hit with exterior graffiti and I'm sure more than a few have slashed seats. It still amazes me that the DOT coaches have no where near the protection on the windows that the TA buses have.
I believe Queens Surface was the only NYCDOT operator to get new Orion transit buses because it is the only one with enough CNG capacity. There were posts several months back about CTC not being able to house any CNG's beyond the ones it already has. And GBL and Jamaica do not have CNG capability yet.
GBL and JBL will never be CNG capible point blank.The Coopers have no interest in upgrading the fleet they already with the exception of Command.On side note it would be nice to see the DOT invest in New Flyers(CNG's for Command and diesels for the other companies)in both Artrics and 40 ft Hi or Lo Floors both suburban and transit).
i would wonder what will happen to the Gilligs that LI bus doesnt run. couldnt they send them to Triboro for instance and ungrade them and replace the RTS buses there instead?
The Gillags have been scrapped thanks to the 2000 Orion V's
Gilig = lousy bus.........Triboro = lousy maintance........Lousy maintance + lousy bus = bus that breaks down daily which needs the amount of maintance which Triboro simply can't do.
Sid, That's pritty much correct. cTc can't store ANY of the CNGs inside because the building isn't "explosion proof" and right now they: 1. Don't have any more space outside & 2. Don't have enough CNG filling capacity.
Mr t__:^)
Everything else went smoothly today. The N21 ride into Flushing on a new Orion CNG was fast and only 50 minutes. The subways weren't crowded and I didn't have to wait long for a train. The ride home was hell compared to that. I arrived at the bus stop for the N21 to Glen Cove at 4:10pm. The bus was scheduled to leave at 4:30pm, but I got there early because I wanted to get a seat. The line built behind me quite rapidly, mostly the usual migrant crowd, some with large packages.
By 4:30pm the bus had not shown, and the line was quite long, all the way back down Roosevelt ave in Flushing to near the Ped/traffic light.
Finally came, and I should've known it would be a Cummins. I got a seat because I was early, but the bus was SRO by the time we left Flushing (4:38pm).
After more pick-ups in Queens it was packed like sardines at the Nassau line. Fortunately after Great Neck people got off and the bus had a few seats by Roslyn.
But the bus we had, 287, was running real bad. The Cummins L10G was mourmoring, and trembling. And it could barely make it up hills.
Finally home, just one more steep hill to climb. The engine shook and shuddered, going up at no more than 5mph on Glen avenue. It felt as if it would stall at any moment.
When I got off I told the driver about the engine, he more or less said Cummins is a piece of garbage.
So I ask two things of LI Bus. Sunday service should be increased, since there's almost rush hour loads during the afternoon. And all the Cummins engines should be replaced with those used in the new buses. I know money is an issue. If everyone who made over $200,000 a year (and there are many in Nassau who do) paid $100 dollars for the bus system, we wouldn't have to deal with crappy service and crappy Cummins buses. $100 is small change for a yuppie, but would be a big change for us LI Bus riders.
Just think I had 287, what a difference if it would've been 288! I would've had a new Orion with series 50G, instead of the piece of sh** Cummins L10G.
Those Cummins L10G engines must go!
At least the transmission on the LIB L10 CNG buses are Allisons, and not Voith/ZF. Then, the LIB Orions w/L10 engines would really suck.
They shouldn't have been running that garbage on a Sunday with all those newer buses resting in the depot/garage......Lateness caused by heavier traffic and extra crowds due to Christmas Season. Heaven forbid they pay overtime to get some extra drivers out there in December. MSBA is broke as it is.
They always run more Cummins buses on the weekend on the N20/21. Yesterday I saw nothing but Cummins out there, except on the N23.
Either they are in the garage, or more likely, the new Orions are on the south shore. The dispatchers at LI Bus are really stupid.
If you know anything about the LI Bus fleet you know not to stick slow Cummins on heavy load routes that serve hilly areas. I feel there should be NO Cummins buses on the N20/21 at all, especially on weekends. There are plenty of routes in flatter sections of the county, let them have the Cummins.
I also hate the small sign on the Cummins buses. Those buses really suck.
The real solution is replacing the L10G engines with those used in the new models, as well as putting in new destination signs and LED lights. But I guess I'm dreaming right? After all, this is LI Bus where talking about. :-(
One of the new Orion CNG buses was on the N25 yesterday.
The Cummins Orions are so bad I'd rather ride a 500 or 600 series diesel!
Hey, are the cummins engines the ones that were used on the late Orion Is, like the 1991-1992 models and also on the first Orion V's? If so, I love the osund of the engine, and I didn't realize they were so bad. Also, would changing the engine really improve everything with the bus, like, for the acceleration?
I think the first Orions (diesel) used the 6V-92 engine, not Cummins.
Changing the engines on our L10G Orions would make a big difference. Compare the newer buses w/DD series 50G (LIB 288 and up) and QSC's Orions with the older L10G Orions. It's impossible not to notice the difference. The Cummins buses are loud, slow, and are terrible going up hills. They also like to stall out quite a bit. The new buses with
the Series 50G from DD are much quieter and smoother, as well as faster and easier with the hills.
In my opinion the Cummins L10G engine is a piece of crap and should be banished from running on any MTA buses. Replacement of these engines with DD series 50 would improve reliability at LI Bus.
The NYCTA is replacing the 6V-92 engines in alot of their older Orions at CS with Series 50's, so why shouldn't LI Bus make improvements as well? Oh I forgot, it's not a "real" bus system!
Are there special buses assigned to the M35? If so, what are they?
M35#PA4320Mike
Yes. I believe 6 buses equipped with EZPass are designated for the M35. I don't know which ones.
The M60 also uses E-ZPass, although why does that require dedicated buses? All they require are dedicated tags.
I remember this thread once. The M60 drivers get a tag and put it in the bus when they start at the beginning of the day. The M35 has a dedicated fleet.
Why the different procedures? (I didn't think the M60 had a dedicated fleet.)
The buses assigned to the M35 are all 8000 series buses. Run # 3 though manages somehow to get a 5000 series assigned to his run. I'll try and get you the bus numbers tomorrow and post them tomorrow night.
I don't know how true that is because, 3 weeks ago, I spotted a low floor Orion (63xx) running on the M60.
We should be so lucky as to have low floor Orions at 126. Believe me they're all 8000's with the occasional 5000 thrown in the mix. In case you missed my other post regarding this subject here are the buses assigned to the M35: 8186,8188,8195,8216,8469,8471,8478,8493&8494
You missed my last post, directly following my first post. It stated "I'm so sorry. I misread your message. I thought you were talking about the M60. Please disregard my first message.
Thank you."
Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding.
I'm so sorry. I misread your message. I thought you were talking about the M60. Please disregard my first message.
Thank you.
The following buses are assigned to the M35 line: 8186,8188,8195,8216,8469,8471,8478,8493,8494. All have the EZ Pass mounted on the roof.
Thank you very much.
M35#8494Mike
I know this is a little ways off, but I was wondering if US transit systems are going to be asked to send buses to Salt Lake City for the 2002 Winter Olympics as they were for the 1996 Summer Games in Atlanta. I'm not sure if NYCT or NJT had to send buses, but I know we lost several 1994 Flxible E's here in DC to help out and some of those buses came back not looking so good. They had lots of scratches on them where the Olympic officials had put their own advertising on them. The only neat thing was that they left the interior Olympic signs on so you knew that you were on a bus that was down there. One in particular was 4050.
The only logistical problem I see is the fact that Salt Lake City isn't near a lot of other metorpolitan areas like Atlanta. I suppose they could get buses from LA, Las Vegas, Phoenix and San Francisco. It would be a shame if all the East Coast properties would have to put 6 or 7,000 miles on new buses to drive those people around.
Actually, NYCTA did not send down any buses, but instead the new buses slated to come to NYC went directly to Atlanta first from Roswell N.M. I know this very well because the 8900's we have at Jamaica depot were the very first buses in NYCT that were redirected to serve in the Olympics. Also, from what I heard, alot of the 8900 and low 9000's were quite banged up in Atlanta and needed extensive body work before they arrived to their respective depots. I suspect that is why the numbers, mainly the 9000's are so scattered around the various depots. Example: 9051-9056 in Jamaica except 9052 in ENY.
9057-9069 in ENY except 9065 in Jamaica. 9070, 9072 & 9073 in Jamaica while 9071 & 9074-9076 live in ENY. Originally ENY did not have any of those low 9000's, but the numbers were always scattered.
BIG AL
9052, 9071, 9074-9076 went to Ulmer Park after the Olympics. Thes buses went to ENY after the B8 went all to them.
Robert
That figures that the buses were already banged up upon arrival to NYCT. Your buses go through enough as it is, it would have been nice to have them before being run to the ground. Hopefully, once they were repaired, they are running pretty good. So many of the operators at the Summer Games were very inexperienced and had no business being behind the wheel of a bus from what I understand. I had a couple of friends from Shuttle-UM that went down there and drove some buses around.
I'm wondering if they would just sent any new MCI's, Orions or Novas out west before sending them East for the upcoming Games. I'm sure many of you would just like to send the Orions out west and have them never come back!
SEPTA was in the same situation.
In fact, the delivery of the Ikarus fleet was delayed until fall 1996, since Ikarus sent the SEPTA order down to Atlanta for the Olympics.
New Flyer sent some of its new buses to Atlanta as well before going to their new homes. Reading, PA (BARTA) is the most notable that I know of.
I suppose Seattle or Portland could send some of their artics as well. It will be interesting to see what the do and how they will handle if the weather is really bad. That's all we need, inexperienced drivers with new buses in the snow. Those artics would be jacknifing left and right. Although, the artics may not be used if it were snowing since the traction isn't the greatest.
Imagine driving an artic all the way to SLC!!!
Clark Palicka
CEO TrAnSiTiNfO
http://www.nyctransitinfo.com
The only artrics that SLC will see most lilkely are Las Vegas New Flyers Artrics ( they have 3 doors instead of 2 and all have survillance cameras)
Actually, the Utah Transit Authority has 12 New Flyer D60LF buses (9801-9812). Don't forget, Las Vegas also has some NABI artics as well.
Anybody know what they look like or how many are to arrive? I'm scratching my ass trying to find out about them. IF anyone knows, let me know, too.
Oh, and say hi to dpirmann and joet for me. Nice pics!
I live 15 mins from the plant in Upstate New York. As soon as I find out, I'll let you know. I'm going to take adrive by there today.
B61 Leonard
nyct will receive 125 cng and 125 hybrid orion 7 buses. they will not arrive until sept 2001.
Thanks for letting me know that. I guess I won't be seeing those up here for a while.
B61 Leonard
This morning about 10:15 AM at 42nd and Second Avenue: Artic 5406 on the M15 southbound. They have arrived!
they are test buses 5406 and 5407. soon you may see 1095-1109 arrive from kingsbridge.
In an earlier thread regarding "Northern State claims another bus", the discussion was raised about the legalities of buses on parkways. While I can't offer anything as far as privates are concerned, I do have the current parkway permit issued by the DOT Bureau of Authorized Parking & Permits to the NYCTA, and it reads as follows (with minor deletions):
Name: NYC TRANSIT AUTHORITY / SPECIAL OPERATION
date(s): 24 HOURS A DAY / 7 DAYS A WEEK - AS NEEDED
License Plate(s): FLEET BUS
Valid on the following roadways:
[x]Pelham Parkway
[x]Mosholu Parkway
[x]Richmond Parkway
[x]Grand Central Parkway
[x]Hutchinson River Parkway
[x]Cross Island Parkway
[x]Bronx River Parkway
[x]Harlem River Drive
[x]Other: Henry Hudson Parkway
[x]Belt Parkway: except between Knapp Street & Rockaway Parkway limited to vehicles under 10,000 pounds (5 tons) fully loaded.
Restrictions/Conditions: COPIES OF THIS PERMIT VALID
Dated: October 8, 1999 Expires: September 1, 2000
Purpose: TO TRANSPORT PASSENGERS
This permit is subject to revocation if the applicant does not comply with all pertinent laws, rules, and regulations, including any conditions or restrictions imposed by the Bureau of Authorized Parking & Permits.
This permit must be displayed in the vehicle window or be held in the drivers posession. Upon request, driver shall present it to a Police Officer, Traffic Enforcement Agent, or other authorized person.
The permittee will assume all risk and must comply with all Federal, State and New York City laws and safety requirements. It is incumbent upon permittee to establish the clearance of all overpasses and egress ramps.
The Department of Transportation, by issuance of this permit, is not party to any contract of the permittee. This permit may be revoked by the Commissioner of the Department of Transportation for abuse.
Copies of this permit have been sent to the following agencies:
[x]Police
[x]DOT Enforcement
[ ]Other
--------------------- RENEWAL AND ATTACHMENT --------------------
Dear Permittee:
Your permit to travel on New York City parkways has been extended through SEPTEMBER 30, 2001
In order for this extension to be valid, you must display in each vehicle a copy of your original permit, anda copy of this letter. Failure to do so invalidates this permit.
Be advised that the extension contained herein should not be construed as an indication of any action that this Agency may take in future application for renewal.
Note also that CURRENT PERMITS ARE NOT VALID ON:
[x]FDR DRIVE - Travel is governed on limited portions of the Drive by signage.
[x]OCEAN PARKWAY - Main Roadway
[x]HENRY HUDSON PARKWAY / MILLER HIGHWAY - Coaches, full-size school buses and vehicles over 10 tons (20,000 lbs) MAY NOT USE:
57th Street to 72nd Street Northbound
79th Street to 57th Street Southbound
Check your current registrations for vehicle weight. Violators will be summonsed and face possible revocation of permits. For Questions, please call (718) 555-1212
Sincerely,
Authorized Signature
cc:Deputy Chief NYPD Traffic Control
Inspector NYPD Highway District
Director NYPD Parking Enforcement
------------------------ END PERMIT ----------------------------
Then how can buses line-up E/B in evening rush hour on the main road of Eastern Parkway at Utica if its not on the permit ????????
Does Eastern Parkway have an commercial vehicle restriction on the main roadway?
-Hank
I don't think Eastern Parkway is a parkway (in the sense of traffic restrictions).
Commercial traffic is prohibited from the main roadway on Eastern Parkway. All commercial traffic must use the service road. I believe there are signs posted.
1. The service roads are too narrow.
2. The dollar vans/cabs always block the B14/B17 bus stops so these buses have no choice.
Also at the other end of Eastern Parkway, I have seen most of the B71 bus use the main roadway even though the bus stops are at the service roads.
B14#5241Mike
B17#9063Mike
B71#989Mike
Thanks!
I have vague recollections (from at least a decade ago) of buses stopping on the main Ocean Parkway roadway. Any idea if my recollections are correct? If they are, presumably there have been some changes to the permit.
The B1, B4, and B36 buses use the Ocean Parkway main roadway for a few blocks.
B1#5098Mike
That is a very good summary of highways! Thanks!!!
Ray
http://www.wai.com/Transportation/Bridges-conv/miller.html
Starting today and every Monday, a new poll question will be posted on Oren's Transit Page. This is a chance to be asked
transit related question in secret without recounts or uncounted votes. This week's poll:
Polls change every Monday afternoon. If there are any questions you wish to have asked, e-mail me.
Sincerely,
Oren H.
Webmaster of Oren's Transit Page
http://www.orenstransitpage.com/
How about a "Both and other" choice? (...and "BusTalk and other" and "SubTalk and other") I post both here and on nyc.transit.
I could do that but its too hard. What did you vote? If you only voted for one, I have ways of adding a vote to the one you didn't vote for. Remember, the poll changes every Monday!!! I did a generic question this week but just wait until next week. They will get better.
I didn't vote. You can put me down for Sub&Bus and Other, if you are so inclined. (It's not like I'm voting for president or anything.)
OK. Just giving everyone a chance to vote.
It's a novel concept these days, no?
Thanks.
It is. The only good thing about my poll is no butterfly ballots and you can't sue. What I say goes. No recounts, no court cases, no media.
BTW: I did do your vote.
Somebody told me they saw a LI Bus (couldn't tell me what type) being towed down Northern Blvd in Great Neck, with people on the bus (no driver).
Can they tow a bus w/ pax on board? And why would they? Not enough buses I guess.
One thing I can say, I'd put a few bucks on it that bus was a Cummins.
No. No. Absolutely NOT. No shot.
This would never happen. If something were to happen, then the lawyers would be asking for astronomical sums.
That is absolutely ridiculous. Why would you even believe anything like that? It's possible a couple of mechanics may have been on the bus. I've seen that with NYCTA buses being towed. But passengers?
C'mon John.
BIG AL
So far, I've read that when the farebox and the radio come off a bus, it likely means that the bus will no longer be used for passenger service.
Well, while I was leaving East New York Yard tonight, I saw these buses with the farebox/radio missing:
4467, 4477, 4485(had Gun Hill decals), 4505, 4692.
I know that ENY depot also performs "work" so maybe I could be mistaken that these buses are heading for scrap, but from what I've read here it does'nt look good.
It's a slight chance they could be getting replacements or some type of body work in or around the operatiing console and the presence of these things would hinder the process. Or, they could be heading to scrap.
*Sigh* So young.
While leaving Alabama Ave last week, I noticed 4495 with KB logos down there. I'll find out if the fareboxes go with the bus to the main shop. I believe they don't. I spotted a Fresh Pond 4700 with no farebox waiting to go to the shop recently. It was going for a new engine. I did see 4692 outside the paint shop last week sanded down. That bus was probably going for an upgrade. Fresh Pond could use those 4400s since their 5000s and 9500s break down frequently. 5068 was towed in last night.
These buses could also be transfers to ENY to be used for service for the new pick next month. When we receive buses in from other depots in Jamaica, they are also missing the radio & fareboxes as this equipment usually stays with the same depot. Every now and then however, we will get in a bus with the farebox still in it from the previous depot. 4692 was a Fresh Pond bus and 4467, 4485 & 4505 were buses stored in Carlton Storage Yard, so I don't think they are being scrapped. I don't know where 4477 came from. I don't see it on the rosters anywhere. Maybe Q5Merrick can track down where that bus came from.
BIG AL
>>>4467, 4485 & 4505 were buses stored in Carlton Storage Yard<<<
So then they probably are transfers. Why would they take buses from a storage yard to a depot to scrap them? That makes the most sense although they did have one of the 1700s there for a long time not being used(it's gone now).
Now all there is to do is find out where mystery bus 4477 came from.
Today at Friendship Heights at about 3:35, 4030 was on the northbound 30 from Potomac Avenue. I believe this is run WE40. No ads on the side so I assume it was just done. Like 4071, they moved the unit number on the back of the bus to the center and the indented spot on the back on the left is still there. These buses do NOT look good in the new colors.
I haven't really seen them up close. I saw 4095 go by one day, but it was dark and only saw it from the side. I don't understand why they are putting all the numbers in the center. The 9700 and 9800's I can see due to the exhaust pipe being there, but there is no reason to do this on the others.
It would have been kind of interesting to see what the RTS' would have looked like in the new paint scheme.
I don't really care for the new WMATA paint scheme - although it's not nearly as tacky as what NYCTA does to it's RTS when they're repainted. I've learned to tolerate the new scheme, but I hate those utilitarian truck like brake/tail/turn indicator LED lights. So - of course I'm always happy to see a Metro D/E that has not been refurbished or an older Metro that retained the original lights.
Wayne
I will adapt eventually but it is still pretty ugly. What I can't stand is the number on the Metro-E in the center. It leaves the amount of things on the back of the bus unbalanced. I actually remember in the summer seeing a bus on the G2 with the unit number in the center of the back. Unrefurbished.
Oh well.
I personally like the new paint scheme, especially the blue parts of the bus. It makes the bus look much brighter than the drab gray bottoms. The only thing that I don't really like is how the red stripes aren't all the way up to the windows, and that is pretty odd in my opinion. Also, the metro logo is much smaller.
I liked it on the Metro-B and Metro-D, but not the Metro-E. It is fine on the Orions. I heard there was a refurbished RTS once on the board, something which I doubt. I wonder what a Fishbowl or New Look would look like in the new scheme.
My brother says he saw a repainted MAN Artic. I don't believe him.
I thought I did see a RTS in the new WMATA paint scheme in Crystal City in late 1999. There is at least one MAN in the new paint scheme - it's 5119. I see it often on the Z routes.
Wayne
Anyone have pictures? I can't picture this.
Believe your brother, and do not doubt. There is at least one apiece RTS and MAN in the new scheme; I don't remember which ones. Those MAN's just keep on chuggin'. Are there any plans to replace them?
I always wanted to see a New Look in the new scheme, too.
How much can the new scheme on Metro-E's differ from the new scheme on the Metro-D's?
I really like both of the current Metrobus paint schemes, and I like how there's about a 40/60 chance of seeing both of them. I agree that the new scheme is brighter. I like the old scheme because buses sporting it look like they mean business, especially the Orions. Sadly, I would venture to say that not a single 9600 still wears the old scheme.
Does a repaint indicate that a bus is rebuilt? Do they REALLY need to be rebuilding five year old buses?
There is one MAN that I saw repainted, 5119 out of Montgomery. I saw it once coming back presumably from being used on the Redskins Shuttle because it was a Sunday evening when it was returning to the lot followed by about a dozen other random buses of various sizes. Not a typical deadhead maneuver for a regular Sunday.
The paint schemes aren't any different I don't think on the Metro B's, D's or E's, they just look different on each one due to the different shapes. For some reason the 8700-8900's that were repainted don't have the LED lights.
There are also some Flx's that I have noticed that have been refurbished but not repainted. The way that I have noticed this, the buses that used to have the advertising frames on the sides, no longer have that. The ads are pasted on the same way they are on the newer buses. Plus the seats inside seemed to shine like they do in the repainted ones.
You are also right that the 9600's are all in the new scheme. A New Look would look really good in the new paint style.
Well, personally I don't think that the New Looks would look good in the new paint scheme. The windows are way too small, as in narrow. The new sheme would look much better with the big windows. Also, I agree that in the old scheme, the buses look very serious about what they are doing.
Not all repainted buses are rebuilt or at least I hope not. Number 7 to be refurbished (a Metro B) is still in the old colors last time I saw it which was awhile ago.
I think I've seen one or two 9600's with the old scheme around. I saw one a few months ago in Bethesda.
I remember seeing one of the old Orion Vs (if that is one of the 9600's) a long time ago, probably a few months or so, in White Oak on the Z8 in the old colors.
I got on NYCTA RTS 4497 today, the only 43xx, 44xx, and 45xx to have the soft express seats. The bus was nice, and if you change the ID # along with the destination signs, the bus can almost pass for a 1997 Nova Suburban. One point to highlight is, unlike many other old RTSs, the "Stay Behind White Line" sign worked perfectly. It blinked and went out when it was supposed to. A look back to old times for me. My question is, is the TA planning on converting more of the verteran RTSs to soft seats?
How does it work perfectly? Since they never work, I don't know when they are susposed to but I believe it is when the doors are open. Am I correct?
Yes, most of today's RTSs have on the right side of the Stop Requested sign, near the door have a blue sign with white letters on paper saying Stay Behind White Line. But 5-6 years ago, the sign always was meant to blink when the doors opened. However, I always remember them as not working. Sometimes they never blinked, sometimes they never went out. All I know is, this bus, 4497 was working perfectly and for a 1986 model, it is very nice.
I remember this and have seen the paper signs. If you ask me, it should blink when the doors are closed.
This bus has the platform seating like the 1997 novas??? Or is it like the old 1982 coaches??
Shaun
I know there is a difference between the 1982 express seats and the 1997. But, yes, RTS 4497 DID have 1997 seats: the gray type with the blue-purple stripe going down the middle, not the old all blue cover seats. I read that the NYCTA was converting these veterans to suburban seating, but I thought 1982 style, not 1997, that's why this bus was a shock to me when I got on it today.
The converted soft seaters that I have seen have the "1982 style" seats, though reupholstered in the blue and grey cloth first introduced on the Orions. The 1996 Nova RTS's introduced the "recliner" on a platform; very comfy seats along with a surprisingly smooth ride for an RTS (first hand experience from the recently departed RTS's from QV, wow I'm jealous of JAM). Is this the style that you saw?
Once again, I know the difference between the 1982 express style and the newer on the current Orion and 1997 Nova Expresses. I got on the new style. I knew the TA was converting to express seats, but I thought exactly what you would think, the 1982 style, which seems to have some kind of covering on it to make it comfortable. The seats on 4497 were just like an RTS suburban on Command: the grayish seats with the blue-purple stripe going down the middle.
This bus was rebuilt practically from scratch! It caught fire while assigned to the Bronx. I remember seeing the bus sitting outside in the back of Walnut depot. This bus was burned beyond belief! Maybe since the bus was rebuilt is the reason for the 1997 style seating.
I hope you like seeing her in the storage yard because that's where she's going (thank you fat a**ed MCIs). They should put some of those Orion suburbans in storage as well. I'll be glad when the first NYC Orion is going through the shredder. I hate those career killers.
"You're blessed if you have an RTS. No RTS, your system's a mess." Jason W. Liggins, RTS Extremist
"The Orion is a great bus!" Alfred E. Neuman, moron
What was the point to these soft-seat conversions anyway? {By the way, believe it or not, I actually got on another one, 3503. Very weird, I have never been on any kind of suburban bus from the NYCTA and I find a way to get on two in one day. 3503 was in the same predicament.
I got on 626 on Monday on the X68- what a great bus she was-very fast along Queens Blvd and LIE. Also get this: 1 of the seats the top part was the regular Suburban seats that the Orions have and the bottom seat cushion was from an old RTS Suburban. I guess this is a sign meaning that the RTS still dominate QV Depot.
X68#626Gary
No one ever said the RTS's will go slowly and without a fight! Even from the grave they are making their presence known on just how shabby the Orion's are. Unfortunately for you and me Gary, we're stuck with 'em on the X68 for a while :-(
Yep, I'm afraid so. I can live with that though. I rode on all the 1982's at QV but 1852. It sure is different to look at. But I'll laugh my head off if I see an Express Orion on the Q46 1 day.
Q46#626Gary-HAHA-hopefully in the future!
Those of us who saw that bus in Walnut never thought that bus would ever turn a wheel again in service. It was THAT bad. In fact, if you did, you might say that there is no way it is the same bus! We rag on the TA for maintainance, and the RTS itself, but the shop people deserve a lot of credit for that rebuild!
No, T/A is not converting any more old RTS's into soft seaters. (Thank God!) Now, for some info on those "Stand Behind White Line" signs. The sign is really supposed to blink and have a chime when people are standing in front of the white line. That is the way it was really meant to function. This worked by way of a contact switch installed under the rubber matting in front of the line. What happened was the operators started complaining that it was very annoying because, as you know, when the bus is packed, people are always standing in front of the line and the chime would keep going off. So, the contact switch and chime was disconnected and the light rewired to blink when the doors opened with a delay timer installed after the doors closed. One of our 1700's used to have that system still working. I don't remember which one it was or if that 1700 is still around, but the last time I saw it working that way correctly was about 2 years ago, while I was drilling a bus. I was totally suprised to hear it starting to flash & chime and only when I stood in front of the line!
BIG AL
I don't remember the contact switch system ever in actual use. Did it ever make it to Manhattan?
As far as I know, the system only worked on the 1981 & 1982's. After those years, transit either disconnected them before the buses ever went into service or they had GMC build them with the system the current 3000 & 4000's have now. As I said, after about 1982 I never heard the chime again up until about 2 years ago, but in the little time it worked, I remember the operators and passengers complaining about how annoying it was. I'm sure it would have been in Manhattan also until they were shut off. I'm not suprised however that hardly anybody remembers it. But then again, anybody under the age of, say 25, wouldn't know about it or remember it.
BIG AL
Oh, I remember when the 1981's started coming in -- I was in first or second grade at the time. I even remember the chime, but I remember it as sounding while the doors were open, or perhaps just after they closed. Whatever. Thanks for the info.
I have driven 4497 many times. The seats are upholstered in the blue and grey cloth, but they are the old style low seats not the high back reclining type found on the 9000's.
Don't you find these seats extraordinarilly similar to the RTS CNGs from Command? I did.
According to a story published Monday in the Queens edition of the Daily News the Committee on Better Transit proposes a new bus route from Southeast Queens to the Leffetts Blvd A Line Station. Back in the early 70's the TA tried a route Q-80 that ran on Linden Blvd but was discontinued due to low ridership(No transfers back then) after several months.
Any proposals on how a new route should operate
Thank You
[Committee For Better Transit proposes a new bus route from Southeast Queens to the Lefferts Blvd A-line station.... Any proposals on how a new route should operate?]
My first proposal is to avoid Lefferts Blvd station, for two reasons: (1) there are no good side streets to use for turning a bus around there, and (2) only half of the A's run from there. Whatever is devised should go to Rockaway Blvd station, to connect with full A service plus a bunch of bus routes.
My proposal for a Queens bus routes are actually extentions I have mentioned in the past on BT.1 is extendeding the Q55 from it present terminal at Mrytle/Hillside to 168th St between Archer and Jamaica(were the Q24 terminates) via Hillside Ave.The other is extending the B12 and/or B14 to X-Bay /Liberty.The 12 naturally via Liberty and the 14 via Linden in to Queens then up X-Bay to Liberty.
I like your B12 idea to Liberty and X-Bay. The turnaround there shouldn't be too much of a problem either.
The B14 however, I don't like too much. You aren't serving much of a market along XBay.
Mark
How about the Q55 via Hillside to Downtown Jamaica.There is no service between Mrytle and Queens Bl.plus you eliminate the need to x-fer to the Q56 at 117th st.(especially if you have to x-fer for another bus in Jamaica.It is that or you have the same thing that you have on the b39, q79 or LIBuses;x-fer to 2 additional buses
TA willnotdo it. Too much duplication with the Q-56and the Q-54.
However extend the Q-55 to Jamaica Hospitalon Van Wyck Service Rd.
Return via Atlantic Ave and Leffetts Blvd.
Thank You
How about the b14 heading south down X-bay to 165th instead.
I saw an Orion VI, I think it was #2074, with a white-on-purple banner-decal above the windows (where the italic "metrobus" usually is). I forget the exact wording, but it said something like: "This is your new ride. It's better. Safer. And easier to enter." -- presumably a reference to the bus's low-floor configuration (which also gave rise to the banner -- the low-floor O-VIs have a good deal of white space above the windows because the seating area is so much lower). This is a similar message to that which has appeared as a standard-sized advertising poster in the 22XX-23XX Orion Vs -- in those cases, it's a black-on-yellow poster soliciting comments.
I've been seeing more and more of the 9XXX Metro-Ds at work in Northwest. Their previous domain was more or less exclusively Virginia, downtown, and some parts of Maryland. I guess as Metro is pulling the 40XX Es from service for refurbishment, they're shuffling the other ones around to pinch-hit for them.
Has anyone else noticed the increasing amount of graffiti, scratches, and dings on Metrobuses? This is why I'm against the soft seats installed in the new Orions and Metro-Ds and Es -- they're just getting cut up, especially on buses serving the school routes like the W46. I was talking to the driver of a WMATA Historic Fleet GMC Old Look a coupla months ago at taste of dc, and he said vandalism/graffiti seemed to be on the rise -- but that kids don't realise that "their parents are paying for it" in the form of higher taxes. At any rate, pretty much any bus in circulation on the 30 route (I took 8 buses on that line this past weekend) has a good deal of marker-pen scrawl and scratched Windows. The buses also seem to be getting more driver-inflicted dings.
See ya,
Chris
I saw 4030 refurbished on the 30 today without ads on the side. Also, the banner reads "Here is your new MetroBus. Safe. Reliable. And easy to board."
I got my picture of the Orion VI with the banner back. The exact wording is:
Here is your new Metrobus! Dependable. Safe. And easy to board.
I will scan this ASAP. The bus is 2005.
Those new 2000-series WMATA Orion VI's are SO ugly. They look terrible, and I cannot forgive these buses for kicking New Looks out of service. I vaguely remember hearing something like 36 out of 100 of those broke down on the short journey from the rail yard in Baltimore to the WMATA acceptance facility.
I really like the Metrobus paint scheme (both of them), but these new buses make even it look horrible. The alternate rear-door arrangement on WMATA's Orion VI's make the bus look awkward and unstable, and the relatively small amount of space between the bottom of the front windshield and the top of the bumper does not leave enough space for the paint scheme to be seen there as it should. And don't even get me started on that cheap, italic "Metrobus" which looks like an addition that WMATA just decided to slap on at the last minute. I do have to admit, though, the the back looks kind of cool. I suspect that the backs on some VI's are blue and red on others, just for variety (I'm probably wrong.)
Two things:
On which routes does WMATA plan to use these buses? Are they to be used interchangibly with other 40-foot buses? How have they been liked thus far?
Are there not plans to discontinue the Orion VI? I am surprised that WMATA even bought these at all, considering the failure of VI's in other big cities. Perhaps they have some sort of lock-in contract with Orion. I don't know whether I should dread or look forward to seeing its vaunted replacement, the Orion VII.
I do not ever forsee WMATA being big on low floor buses. Maybe low-floor artics on city routes, but so much of their service is suburban in nature that it just makes more sense to buy standard-floor buses.
I don't know why, but I always get this feeling that WMATA will soon enter into a long-term contract with NovaBUS. The RTS is a suitable bus for Virginia and Maryland suburban service, and the LFS would be great in the city. An LFS would look AWESOME in Metrobus colors!
Hopefully, this will be the last of the Orions. WMATA's fleet used to be so fun to watch, but now that those boring and ugly Orions predominate, it's lost its charm. I have no problem with the Orion V, but when this is the featured bus throughout the fleet, it makes Flxibles look great.
Neil
I've only seen them on the D6, H2, and some other route but the sign wasn't working. They will be used interchangably because unlike in NYC, buses aren't dedicated to certain routes. There are no red backs on the Orion VI.
While my friends and I were in DC for the Thanksgiving weekend, we wrode an Orion VI on the B2 and that was 2074. I have pics of them running on the V8 between Archives and Deanwood Station. I personally like them better than the Hybrid Electric versions here in NYC. These appear to be 2nd generation Orion VI's. The main difference between the 2 is that the WMATA units don't have a flat floor all the way through. In the rear past the rear exit doors you must step up to get to the rear seats, on the NYC units it is a flat floor. The WMATA units are powered with the new Y2K Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines that are extremely clean and powerful! These buses are very quick during acceleration. In my opinion they run really well and I look foward riding them again in the near future.
Peace
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Sounds as if you've described what could be a preview of the new Orion VII. How many seats are on the new DC bus?
I think there are 38 seats. The first half on the right side has all sidways facing seats. The left side is mixed. Then I belive there are a few sidways facing seats once you go up the steps in the rear of the bus. The engine compartment in the back looks like its a restroom.
I never really did like the back that much. I mean, the engine is on one side, and then there is the rear window. I really prefer the backs that the Orion Is and Vs have. That, in my opinion, makes and Orion bus an Orion bus. Also, unless Orion goes out of business like Flxible did, I don't think that the WMATA will order buses from Novabus (thank god!). No offense to Novabus, but they hardly have any original designs, and the LFS looks so dainty and, well, weak. They are nothing like the big boy Flxibles or the rough and tough girl Orions. I mean, no offense, but in a way I would sorta be disappointed if WMATA actually did use Novabus as their source for all of their buses, since, well, I don't think Novabus is a great company, and I don't like what they did to the RTS (which is basically nothing, but still...). Instead, I think they should go to NABI. I mean, NABI is becoming one of the big bus manufactors now. Just about every company I know pretty well or not so well (Miami-Dade, WMATA, and SEPTA) have used them, and I know that MUNI and AC transit, as well as a few other companies have a few of them too. Besides, I think that the NABI buses look great in the Metro paint scheme (at least, the old scheme) and the black strip is just amazing. I mean, it makes the bus look so mysterious or whatever, it just gives a statement that I can't describe. Also, in reference to a post that was posted on SubTalk about how SEPTA wasted 600 dollars to put the black stripe on their NABI buses, well, if they hadn't, I seriously don't think that they would look that great without them. I mean, in my opinion, the black stripe goes with those buses as well as the slanted window goes with Flxible buses.
The Basman has spoken...
>>>They are nothing like the big boy Flxibles or the rough and tough girl Orions.<<<
I'll give you the Flxibles, but tough girl Orions? The only thing tough about those knocked up tramps is keeping them looking good and running properly.
RTS4Life
I've ridden them on the F4/F6.
Wayne
I don't know what it is about DC, LA and other cities that have vandalism problems on the buses.
Here in Jersey, NJ Transit has cushioned seats on all buses, and they have many routes that pass through really bad areas of Newark, Irvington, East Orange, Paterson, etc., yet I've never seen torn seats or scratched windows.
The worst I've seen are marker scribbles on the seat frames but even those are fairly rare.
On a somewhat related note, the 1996 RTS are in sad shape.
They rattle even when there's no bumps, and when the bus goes over a bump, hold your ears! They're also loud on the inside, and the transmission is jerky.
The 1999-2000 Novas are a huge improvement over the other ones. The seats are softer, they run much smoother and quieter, and they don't rattle half as much.
Bah! I'd take a 1996 Nova over an Orion anyday, even with those crummy new engines!
RTS buses and 6v92TAs forever!
Little by little, I'm learning to like the Orion VI, but it will never have the same feeling that a Flxible Metro does. I see them all over Arlington, primarily on the 23A from Crystal City to Tysons Corner. I was just on 2004 on the 2B on Saturday and she was running pretty well. Its odd sitting so low, though. That's one thing I can't get used to and I still think its a lot less safe than a standard floor bus because if it gets broadsided, I think the passengers have more of a chance to be injured than on a standard size bus.
I kind of got a laugh as we were riding on the 2B and that dumb banner at the top of the bus seemed to attract a lot of attention from the other motorists. I think this could rekindle the Bus O Ramas if agency's choose to advertise up there!
On the way home Saturday, I was even happier to be on Flx Metro-E 4098. I haven't been on those in a long time. Unfortunately, the Orion V's are pretty prevelant, especially on the routes that I would take the most, 1C, 2B.
I haven't noticed too much graffiti, not anymore than usual. You would think that the soft seats would be easier to clean,but if they start getting cut up, forget it.
As long as they don't get anymore Orion II's, that's all I ask for.
Oh, I saw a nice report on Channel 5 last night about the new 5A bus. They were using 4236, which comes out of Four Mile Run. I guess they will be using VA buses for this route between L'Enfant Plaza and Dulles Airport. At the end of the report, they said that WMATA plans to run more reverse commute buses from Montgomery and PG in MD in the future.
Just saw it on the way home in Great Neck. It was on Middle Neck road right by the shopping center on an N25 to Lynbrook. People were still on the bus and a dispatcher was on scene.
Didn't look like a flat, which means something else went wrong. the bus number was 305 or 335, it was hard to tell in the dark.
Also noticed paint coming off in the rear. Saw a little bit of paint missing on my bus (309) that I had going home.
Why do Orions seem to have paint peeling problems? I never see this on RTS's. I did ride a Series 50 powered RTS today in Manhattan, they do seem alot sturdier than Orions.
So who makes a better bus, Orion or RTS?
That question answers itself. It's like asking if th world is round. Only a diehard Orion fan, a non-busfan, or an idiot would say Orion makes a better bus than the RTS.
I feel if Orion makes another crappy bus, (Orion VII) they'll lose their customers and I can't wait!
RTS Forever!
Long live the 6v92TA engine (yeah, I know some Orions have them, but it's nothing like an RTS with one)!
RTS all the way....RTS = Really Tough Series!
Seriously, on the X68 we've been 'blessed' with 1995 Orions from Castleton. They certainly aren't as smooth as the 1996 RTS's that went to Jamaica. You get the feeling that even though the entire inside is like an unfinished shed, they won't be as durable as the RTS's. Look around Manhattan at the Orions on the M104. The ones in the 400 series look like they're 15 years old. Similiarly aged RTS's just don't convey that.
Yeah alot of Stengal's Orions look sooo old. The RTS's I see on the Q17 look in alot better shape than the Orions.
Also what is it with destination signs on Orions? Would you believe some of the Orions we have at LIB have broken signs? And the rear signs never work properly. Also I can never feel comfortable on an Orion on a bumpy road. Once I got startled when the new 300 series Orion hit a bump in the road. Wham!
I never see RTS's have sign problems.
Sure the "new" Orions run alot better than the Cummins because of the Series 50G. But they clearly are not the best transit buses on the road. I think that alot of the RTS's will definately outlast the Orions.
Also what is it with destination signs on Orions? Would you believe some of the NEW Orions we have at LIB have broken signs? And the rear signs never work properly. Also I can never feel comfortable on an Orion on a bumpy road. Once I got startled when the new 300 series Orion hit a bump in the road. Wham!
I never see RTS's have sign problems.
Sure the "new" Orions run alot better than the Cummins because of the Series 50G. But they clearly are not the best transit buses on the road. I think that alot of the RTS's will definately outlast the Orions.
*forgot to add NEW
Yeah, the RTS's run much better with the 6V-92 than the Orions. I used to be an Orion fan but lately I'm sick of them, and they aren't built very well. RTS's are nice and sturdy. It was sure nice riding that RTS in Manhattan, I really felt "protected" from all the noise outside. Can't say the same for Orions.
I haven't been on an NYCTA RTS in awhile since recently, and forgot how much nicer they are than QS's. I notice that the NYCTA RTS w/series 50 power have a middle seat. It feels like the engine compartment on RTS's is larger and built stronger, there's less engine noise than on an Orion.
I also like the black stop strips. They look nicer, and don't show up dirt like the yellow ones on Orions.
Yesterday, while wating at 30th St Station for my train to Trenton, I spotted SEPTA's new ElDorado 30-ft bus (4501) on layover. The new bus, which has a bike rack, the first SEPTA bus to have one, is operating out of Germantown (Trenton-Philadelphia Coach division contract operations) and was being tested on the #316 LUCY loop (Loop through University City).
for those who are interested in or who collect roll signs, there is a club on yahoo for you... it's a small club, but there are some knowledgable people there
roll sign club
Does anyone know if there is 24 hour bus service to East Brunwick transportation center?
If not what way is there other than bus to get there?
As best as I can tell from the NJ Transit web site, the 134 and 138 provide bus service from NYC to the East Brunswick Transportation Center. From the timetable, it appears that these are pretty much rush hour routes. I doubt if any of the local "M" routes provide 24-hour service.
Suburban Transit also operates service to EBTC, both peak and off-peak, though I don't think it's 24-hour service.
There is no 24-hr service to EBTC. Coach USA/Suburban Transit operates frequent service on it's Princeton line via East Brunswick; NJT Routes 134/138 are weekday peak hour only routes; NJT M15 and M18 (NJ 18 corridor service) also serve EBTC.
Thanks for the help.
On Monday, 12/4, all the decals and logos were stripped off of 1746, 3870 & 3881. So you know what that means. RTS 2150, you can whip out your crying towel again because 1746 will not be back in service after all. Earlier I had said it looked like those buses could be going back into service for the new pick if there is a service increase, but now it looks like they are definitely shipping out very soon either to the scrap yard or someplace to be held if they are going up for sale. I will try to find out which it will be and post back.
BIG AL
Sigh, the career killers strike again. The stained steel MCIs and the Onion Vs send another perfectly fine 1982 RTS to the scrap yard with its two younger and even more serviceable siblings. The Onions will have their day though. The first of the fleet are only a couple of years from storage, then Nimco.
I know I'm a little hard on the Onions, but I hate when good buses like 4191, 4497, 3870, 3881, and 1746 are being stored and scrapped while shoddy, unreliable Onions are running wild over New York, their shoebox shape becoming as umbiguous as that of the RTS and even the New Look! I know you bus purist don't want the NYC bus legacy to be tainted by Onions after years of prosperity under the guidance of trusty New Look and RTS buses.
I hate the new series 50 crap they put in the RTS buses, but they're still better than an Onion. Bus Fleets should only be composed of RTS, New Looks (a few for nostalgic purposes), Flxibles, and New Flyers. That's it! You can buy whatever over the road coach you want, but as for tansit, can an Orion really tear up the streets of Queens? I don't think so, they don't even belong there
Well, I'm through ranting. R.I.P. 1746, 3870, and 3881. I hope the fuel of 30 Orions is shed for this. :-)
RTS4Life
1747, 1752, 1755 and 1844 are still kicking out of Jamaica. I will try and catch 1755 again next week. Otherwise 1747 will do.
X63#1747Gary
Looks like according to the lastest bus roster that all the 1982 RTS' at Ulmer Park have hit the scrap yard. So long to 1760, 1761, 1778 and 1846.
Shaun
surprised to see former yukon veteran 3830 on the gowanus today.
According to Glenns Roster of 12/9/00, the last 1983 bus, coach 3099, went to Carlton. I thought FP would have been given the honor to run it to the ground! Maybe FP will get 4742 back with its' coach seats eventually!
I rode 1760 last week
I rode 1760 last week on b3
Now she's gone :( Along with her counterparts 1761, 1778, 1846 and 3099. I heard that 3503 and 3562 are stil kicking. As of now, the news is is that the 1982s at QV run ONLY in local service. A few weeks ago, I rode 1751 on the Q46. Haven't seen her since.
Q46#1773Gary
Excellent post!
Don't forget that if it weren't for them not fitting thru the car wash becasue of their mirrors, FP would have received Orions. 173 (ex 93073) was there. Maybe FP would have turned out to be an all Orion depot!
If it turned out to be an all Orion depot, they could put my babies, the low floor buses there!
Bill from Maspeth wants Maspeth Depot to be all Orion once it opens. By that time, all the old Orions will be Series 50, which should be a big improvement. Suffice to say, since it will be in a commercial area, it may turn out to be all CNG, if the TA doesn't give up on the CNG program by then, and I hope they do since I don't see the CNG Flyers and CNG Orions living as long as a diesel bus.
Why have they planned to buy all the new CNG buses as Orions/NF's and not RTS's? I imagine on new ordered buses they could have fixed the pressure problem, no?
[Why ... buy ... new CNG ... Orions/NF's and not RTS's?]
Eye assume it was price, since the RTS CNG model was tested first & some are still seen on the streets.
Mr t__:^)
LI bus did this for awahile, they bought some of NYC old RTS buses and repainted them and put them in service in LIBUS. Why doesn't Triboro or Green Bus do that? The TA scraps a lot of the RTS and send them to Triboro. All you got to do is repaint them from the outside and put them into service. You would be able to replace those 200's series from Green and 600's series from Triboro. Why hasnt it happened yet?
Remember that LI Bus and NYC Bus have the same parent entity, the MTA. Thus, it is easier to transfer buses between NYC Bus and LI Bus. While what you suggest makes a lot of sense, the relationship between the MTA and NYCDOT is such that a transfer of buses between their respective entities is not likely to happen.
Don't knock the Orion V buses, becasue i dont think NY is getting any more RTS or NOVABUS models. The highest one i have seen is #5249 or #9699 and it seems NY is buying more ORION VII and MCI buses. Is the TA buying more NOVABUS, or they are done?
Orions at LI Bus do seem to have the most problems though. The QSC Orion CNG's seem better maintained and I rarely see broken signs.
Also most NYCT buses (Orions & RTS's) usually have working signs.
I think the poor maintainance of the LI Bus and Green Orions have led to various mechanical and cosmetic problems with them.
I wonder, what kind experience Gleason had with their Orion CNG's since they also used the Cummins L10G engine.
The only problem I had driving the Orion's out of Gleason was that they were prone to stalling if you fan the gas to fast (On-Off-On). I had one that when I was detoring on the B11 via. 13ave into one of the other side street to get around and grabage track. As I was making a left turn into I thing it was 47th street I could not make it and had to back up but the bus would not go into revice so I had to seat untill I got help. Other then that most of them had fast pick up and good brakes to.
Robert
So far, five RTS hybrids are on order for the year 2000, 6360 to 6364. 6360 was running for a time, and soon they should all be.
if anybody getws a pic of 6360 through 6364, can u post it here?
I think there are some problems with Bus Talk. I posted 2 responses a short while ago, but neither tied in with the post that they answered. I see that John's and Wayne's messages got posted without carrying over the subject line, so I assume their respective threads were broken too. It looks like some changes were made in how BusTalk works. I suspect things got a little screwed up in the process.
Yep, bustalk has some problems all right. I just went into my own message about retired buses having their decals scraped off, and instead I got somebody elses post in response to mine. But the post I read does not even show in the main listings. Also, alot of times when I try to even get into bustalk, it takes a long time to download or I just get the message: "Traffic Jam On The Internet Highway.".
BIG AL
Same here Al. By the way, great seeing you again my friend! For whatever reason, the cgi-bin directory is extremely slow for me. The other directories are fine (ie public_html, etc) and load quickly. It's the forum itself that returns a 503 or even a 404 at times.
QV
Dude, it's been extremely slow for everyone. Don't think you've been singled out.
I got that message for two months, but I'm back!
(Anyone remember me?)
I was also getting that message for about 2 months but I also have a Netscape browser so I was able to access Bustalk through that. Anyone on AOL without Netscape should download it, it's a better browser. BTW, welcome back Tevi.
Thanks :)
I once tried to download netscape, took too long.
I have Netscape 6 and AOL 6.0, and I've never had any problems with the posting of a message. Sure it's a little slow, but otherwise it's been fine.
test 1
test 12
test2
I've been receiving many 503 errors, as well as long waiting periods for the CGI-BIN accessible files such as this forum. The site (with the exception of the cgi directory) otherwise loads quickly and navigates easily. Waits of 2-3 minutes or more are the norm when attempting to access this forum, however I have no problems elsewhere.
Also, it appears that the forum is "misaligned" and the server has removed the stored cookie for page display.
QV
Also, it seems that you'll need an tag after the script that depicts the number of messages posted, just before the messages are displayed. Just a hunch?
QV
Also, it seems that you'll need an tag after the script that depicts the number of messages posted, just before the
messages are displayed. Just a hunch?
QV
You're telling the guy who 'wrote the software'
-Hank
The last few days, I have observed some Q.V. buses, like 9354 and 4911 with a small square "convexed" mirror mounted on top of the housing of the regular outside R/S mirror. Is this something one of the operators is putting on or is this a new mirror Q.V. depot is experimenting with? Has anyone else seen this mirror on any other bus in another depot? Maybe, Queens Village BO can find out the story. And BTW, QV, it's great having you back here.
BIG AL
I saw three separate QV buses with them. I remember one was 9371. Its not a bad idea.
8388 has this mirror also
It was cold today, and I noticed the LI Buses I was on (both new 300 series Orions) seemed a bit slower than usual.
Does cold weather decrease performance of buses? Or is it just CNG buses?
The ride in to Flushing on an N21 wasn't any faster than if I got a train at Great Neck. The westbound train leaves about 5 minutes after we depart Great Neck. When I got off in Flushing I just saw it coming in! Must've been late or something, but rarely can a bus keep up with a train!
Cold weather will lower the pressure in the fuel system.
-Hank
Do buses have to "warm up" before leaving the depot?
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/railsandtrains
No, and if you do run them to warm them up and EPA catches you, your wallet will weigh alot lighter for the holiday season.
BIG AL
Why I ask is everytime I ride the 7 I see a few buses at Stengal appearing to be idling. Either it's just for a short time or they are in violation.
LI Bus is not idling their buses in Flushing anymore, the EPA must have caught them!!
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/railsandtrains
Technically speaking, the law does not cover garage areas, ie, places where maintainance occurs. Therefore, a bus idling on depot property is OK.
-Hank
Technically speaking, you're wrong Hank. NYCT depots are considered city municipalities, therefore EPA CAN and DO walk on our premises anytime to issue a violation for an ideling bus. We have stricts regulations now about ideling a bus. It can not run for more than 3 minutes. I suppose if it is running in the maintainence area, one can say work is being performed on it, but then would you want to be in doors with a bus ideling for an extended period of time? The privates may be able to get away with it but NYCT is strictly regulated now by the government.
Also, something else most people probably do not know. If you are a scofflaw and owe the city money for unpaid tickets on your car, the sherrif can tow your car right out from our lot. In fact, the sherrif can even come into our lot to check license plates for scofflaws, and there is nothing we can even do about it, as it is perfectly legal.
BIG AL
Was visiting a relative at St Francis Hospital in Port Washington this afternoon. Noticed LIB 323(i think) with 4 ways on, and the white strobe light on roof blinking.
Am i to assume this blinking strobe is an indication the bus is laying down for a mechanicla problem??? I guess it's used as some kind of aid in finding a dead bus at night on darker roads.
No, I've seen the white strobes on while buses are in service. In fact, I've rode on buses with blinking roof strobes on several occasions, it stops for awhile and starts again. Since the diesel buses don't have strobes I'm assuming that they are used during the CNG fueling, and the strobe is malfunctioning due to an electrical problem(common on Orion buses).
Suprised to see that problem on one of the new buses, but then again, they have other problems. Today I saw three of the 300 series Orions with no working destination sign, and one I was on today had no working bell. Riders couldn't believe a brand new bus has a broken stop bell. The driver said "would you believe it on a new bus".
Orion's buses aren't the greatest, but I think poor maintainance plays a role. I don't see the Orion CNG's at QSC (which have same engine and signs) having the same problems.
Something tells me it's not entirely Orion's fault, but LI Bus skimping on maintainance due to a poor budget. QSC's Orions seem to run better too.
And I don't see the NYCT diesel Orions having the same problems either. Still nothing beats an RTS. I was on several 9000 series RTS's in Queens today (Q46,Q88), with the felt seats and the series 50. They seem much more solid than the Orions and have a more comfortable ride.
Even the older RTS's with the 6V-92, do much better than the older Orions with that same engine.
If 323 was down, things don't seem to be going too well with the new buses. I told you LI Bus could screw any bus up.
And perhaps CNG's are more weather sensitive. Just think our financially strapped county bought all new CNG buses, which cost more to maintain than diesel. If LIB and county government thought right, we would never have gotten CNG and stuck with diesel. Just think of all the agrivation and money we would have saved.
Nassau county had no business converting a skeleton bus sytem to CNG.
I always assumed that strobe light was the equivalent of NYCT buses "hoodlum" lights located on the sides of the front destination sign. I seriously doubt it's used as a locator if the bus breaks down. It could be for refueling purposes, maybe to indicate that the CNG tank is full all though I don't know why it would be on that night you mentioned. Next week I'll ask one of the bus operators at LI bus and post back exactly what is is used for.
BIG AL
Is she still in service anywhere in NYC, or is she history?
And why aren't there more? I think someone said it was because of the front windshield. It has to have two windows, or something like that.
I personally like them. They have them in Buffalo, got them 2 weeks after I moved from there. Bummer!
-B61 Leonard
It's not in NYC anymore; IIRC, it was a demonstrator owned by Nova. I also seem to remember reading here a few months ago that that particular bus was serving as a shuttle at Rutgers, but I could be mixing it up with something else. Foxwoods has some for employee shuttles.
and there is a little town called horseheads on route 17 about a five hour trip which has one. i always manage to see it while passing through.
I could see those NOVA LFS comning back to NY. It is the same company that makes the NOVABUS (Orignally the RTS)-since the TA isnt getting anymore NOVABUS RTS model (exccept for 6360-6364) they should get more LFS. Why no more RTS/NOVABUS models? Or is there another order for 2001?
The City's last "High Floor" RTS buses from NovaBUS will be 6360-6364. After 6360 is returned and the others are delivered, NovaBUS will immediately begin on a new Low Floor RTS design because of the TA's request for a Hybrid Eletric buses on a Low Floor platform from NovaBUS. The LFS is not designed for either CNG or Hybrid configurations, so this is NovaBUS's solution, a Low Floor RTS.
As for NovaBUS LFS #995, After her stint at Rutgers, she returned to NovaBUS/ORTECH. #995 was at the TA property not to test out the bus itself, but was here to try out the new 7.2L Detroit Diesel Series 40E, 275 Horsepower Engine. At the time that the TA wanted to look at this engine, the LFS was the only platform using it. Now you can find the Detroit Diesel Series 40E on platforms such as Orion and NABI buses. #995 utilized the Series 40E coupled to a Allison B300R World Transmission rated at 4 speeds.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I hope the new Low floor RTS is better looking than the original RTS which looks like a condom on wheels.
Har har. I still post here you know. I guess you're more partial to the shoebox Onions?
I hope the Low Floor RTS looks like the original one, except with a low floor. Nova really took a crap on the RTS legacy with that wide floor design so they better get it right this time.
Our understanding is that the new low-floor RTS will have a wide front door, plus a much higher seating capacity than the LFS.
In other words it will be a low floor RTS-06 WFD(RTS-08)
How does the 7.2L Detroit Diesel Series 40E sound compared to the Series 50? Series 60?
The Detroit Diesel Series 40E sounds something similar to the Cummins ISM (M11) Engine, very smooth.
Regards
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
If you want to get a Nova LFS fix, head down to Philadelphia International Airport. Coach USA operates several LFS buses, in addition to some ex-Dallas Neoplans in it's PHL shuttle service.
Also, Albany has some LFS buses.
Why aren't there any more limited service routes around? The Q34 could easily be turned into a limited since it parallels the Q25 for most of the way. It would make all stops from Willets Point to Sanford, then make stops at Holly Avenue, Horace Harding, Queens College, Jewel Avenue, Union Turnpike, Queens General Hospital, Hillside Avenue, and then all stops to Jamaica Avenue.
Then there's the Q101 limited to Rikers Island. Now that it doesn't parallel the Q101 up Steinway Street, why not have a new number for it, like Q105.
Don't forget about the Q60. Manhattan to South Jamaica, all local, following the entire length of Queens Boulevard, which is NY 25 from the Queens Plaza to Hillside Aveune. A big PIB if the bus stops at almost every bus stop. Maybe a Q61 limited that would stop at 2nd Avenue, Queens Plaza, 33rd Street, 40th Street, 46th Street, 58th Street, 60th Street, 65th Place, 69th Street, Grand Avenue, Woodhaven Boulevard, 63rd Drive, 67th Avenue, 71st Avenue, Ascan Avenue, 80th Road, Main Street, Sutphin Boulevard, then all stops to 109 Av & 157 Street.
Then comes the Q66, another bus route that follows another state highway (NY 25a) Maybe call it Q62 and have it run down Northern Boulevard.
Just a few of my ideas.
A Q60 Limited wouldn't happen for two reasons: people would use it instead of Queens Blvd. express buses (and pay standard fare), and it would almost exactly duplicate subway service.
Thats not a reason for not having a LTD on the Q60. I can think of a few TA lines that have LTD's that dupe a subway route--the Bx1/2(the B and D Concourse line) and the M101 (#4, 5 and 6 Lexington Avenue subway) come to mind immediately.
The Q60 is one private line that is screaming for limited service. I agree with Gary's plan for the Q6061, but I differ in one regard. The Q60 should be the limited and go all the way to Manhattan making LTD stops on Queens Blvd between Jamaica Avenue and 33 Street(Aviation HS, Queens Voc HS). The Q61 should be the local and make all stops between South Jamaica and Queens Blvd and 33 Street. The 61 would terminate at 33 Street
Mark
Do any private lines (DOT) run a LIMITED?
The only one that comes to mind is the Q101 Limited that runs to Rikers Island from Queensboro Plaza. Operated by Queens Surface
I think the Q113 run limited service.
B46M Limited
Isn't the q101 to Rikers listed as a LTD.Also the Q10A plus the Q53 is Ltd between 61st/Woodside and 63rd Dr.
Yep, the Q101 Rikers Island is LIMITED from Queens Plaza to Rikers Isl. The Q10A is also from Kew Gardens-JFK but only in AM-idk why.
Should be all day. The ride down Lefferts in the mid afternoon-early evening can be a long one. The Q53 is also a Limited EXPRESS Bus between Woodside and Rockaway. I doubt that the Q60 will EVER BE LIMITED-IT would confuse all of the SENIOR CITIZENS and blind people that use it. It would be too much of a hastle, however very convenient for riders like myself. Also, if the MTA took the Q60 over, then I guarantee that there will be a Q60A, Q60B and A LIMITED!
Q60A- terminates at 47 St-South Jamaica
Q60B- terminates at 33 St-South Jamaica
Q60 Limited Stops from Manhattan-South Jamaica
Q60#616Gary-Representing the RTS!
I don't think TA routes have letter suffixes anymore.
M14 does: M14D, M14A, M14C, depending witch avenue they take in Alphabet City.
Arti
And the Q20 is now the Q20A and Q20B. They now run via 14th and 20th Avenues, respectively.
Not officially. Unlike the Q20-A/B, which is A/B officially; The M14 is officially just the M14.
On Manhattan bus map they are separate entries/schedules for M14A and M14C/D. It's also on the route signs.
Arti
It's only on the rear signs. Also, it's not on the fornt of the map.
I think it's on all signs, I'll check next time.
Arti
Not anymore. The three branches are the M14 via Avenue A, the M14 via Avenue C, and the M14 via Avenue C.
I didn't know about the Q20A and Q20B.
On the back sign of M14 buses, the sign still says "M14A," "M14C," or "M14D."
What about the Q 20A & 20B on Main?
I though it was a regular fare.
The Q58 operated by Triboro Coach runs limited to Queens Plaza Mall and then express to Rockaway Park. The fare is 1.50 last time I check 4 months ago.
[The Q58 operated by Triboro Coach runs limited to Queens Plaza Mall and then express to Rockaway Park. The fare is 1.50 last time I check 4 months ago.]
That's the Q53. The Q58 is operated by MTA-New York City Bus and runs from Ridgewood to Flushing.
[The Q58 operated by Triboro Coach runs limited to Queens Plaza Mall and then express to Rockaway Park. The fare is 1.50 last time I check 4 months ago.]
That's the Q53. The Q58 is operated by MTA-New York City Bus and runs from Ridgewood to Flushing.
What other cities have "limited" service? Champaign-Urbana has the 21 Quad Limited, but that's simply a modified version of the 21 Quad that runs when most other campus routes (22 Illini and 26 Pack) aren't running. The route is modified to cover some parts of campus normally served by the 22 and it's cut back in other areas. Headways are 20 minutes instead of 5. But it's not a limited in the NYC sense; it stops every block, like most C-U routes.
So it's not limited stops but limited headways :-)
Arti
Austin, Tx's Capital Metro has Limited routes as well. 62 Lamar Limited, 6? Ben Hill Limited and 100 Airport Limited. The only thing is that it operates as an express route. The UT Shuttles also make limited stops thru-out Austin, but aren't called limited. Also, Syracuse's Centro: Route 4 between Downtown and Carosel Center Mall make limited stops (one stop). I guess NYC is unique with it's Limited system. I know that I will be proven wrong!
B61 Leonard
That you will my friemd. In Houston, we have the...
3-Langley Ltd.
15-Hiram Clarke Ltd.
17-Gulfton Ltd.
18-Kirby Ltd.
20-Long Point Ltd.
44-Acres Homes Ltd.
53-Westheimer Ltd.
56-Airline Ltd.
57-J.F.K. Ltd.
77-M.L.K Ltd.
85-Antione Ltd.
88-Broadway Ltd.
And there you have it, the limited routes of Houston in a nutshell.
In Los Angeles, you have the following limited routes:
302-Sunset Blvd
304-Santa Monica Blvd
305-W.Hollywood/Rosa Parks
310-Vine/Crenshaw Blvds
311-Florence Av
315-Manchester/Firestone Blvds
316-3rd St
328-Olympic Blvd
333-Venice Blvd
345-S.Broadway
354-Vermont Av
357-Western Av
362-Hawaiian Gdns/Cerritos
378-Huntington Dr/S.Arcadia
379-Huntington Dr/Arcadia/Santa Anita Park(Racetrack)
394-San Fernando Rd/Sylmar
720-Wilshire/Whittier Blvds(Metro Rapid service)
750-Ventura Blvd(Metro Rapid service)
All limited routes except the 750 serve Downtown LA.
[L.A. County Limited-Stop routes]
Oops: Left out Line 318 Whittier Blvd-Brea Mall Limited (which replaced #470 Whittier-Brea Mall Express)
-----
[All Limited routes except the 750 serve Downtown LA]
Nope; five other Limiteds don't go downtown, either:
310 (limited variant of 210)
311 (111)
315 (115)
354 (204)
357 (207)
Also, #362 has no local-stop counterpart; it replaced #462 Hawaiian Gardens Express.
-----
Notice that, in two cases, freeway expresses were replaced by Limiteds on local streets. Interesting, no?
Interesting yes. Thanx for correcting me about the downtown LA thing.
Didn't see the 318 on the mta.net website though.
There are a couple of limited stop routes on the SEPTA system:
1 - 54/City or Wissahickon Transfer Ctr to Academy/Red Lion (limited stops on Roosevelt Blvd, Hunting Park Av) - once known as Blvd Limited (runs during weekday AM/PM peak hours only, with some extra late night service from Northeast Philadelphia to Wissahickon during tax season, since the IRS bldg is on Roosevelt Blvd)
8 - Frankford Terminal to Olney Terminal express - makes only a few stops between Frankford and Olney via Pratt, Roosevelt Blvd, and Tabor Rd (runs AM/PM peak and midday hours, weekdays only)
123 - 69 St Terminal to King of Prussia via W Chester Pk and Blue Route (I-476) - selected westbound trips to KoP only pick-up passengers along West Chester Pk; selected eastbound trips to 69 St only drop off passngers along West Chester Pk; originally, this was the case with all trips all the time, now 123 is essentially a local running daily
A few other city division routes operate peak hour express or limited stop service, but there's nothing really noteworthy compared to most cities.
A few weeks ago, I saw an RTS bus parked inside the parking lot for the East 180th Street subway yard. It was #2342. I took some pictures of it. They are on my Transit Pictures 13 page. I just want some info on this bus.
I was driving by JFK when I saw new buses being used for the shuttle buses. They look to be about 35ft. I could not tell who made them, can anyone help.
Robert
They are El Dorado EZRiders from Thor Industries. The length is 30 feet.
Does anyone have a picture of the condition of this bus? I hear it was damaged in a fire.
Thanks
flx7595
The entire rear was torched. It caught fire on the VZ. I saw it from the bus on the way home over a year ago already, sorry no pics.
-Hank
The bus roster on Transit Talk lists these 3 buses at Kingsbridge? When did this happen? I could have sworn I saw 229 last week in Flushing - same with 269. Why to Kingsbridge?
Also - where is 226 right now? Is she at Stengel or Mother Hale?
Thanks everyone, and have a good weekend.
Flx7595 (Staring out the 7 train at lonely RTS 1742 all by herself in College Point)
If they are sending the Orions(especially 269) back to KB,then MCH can sent back some of CS's original 93 Orion order.Besides that after MCH gets 125 Orion 7's:where are those Orion V's going to end up at.
>>>where are those Orion V's going to end up at.<<<
With any luck Nimco or Gershow.
Those buses are at KB for prep work for the engine replacement program (aka "repower") that is taking place at the nearby 207th Street shop.
Mark
If anyone is interested in old looks I am currently restoring bus 2397 from LATL/MTA/RTD. It is the better of the 2 that I have from Los Angeles. 2363 has some major accident damage and I dont have the time to mess with it right now. They have both sat for 16 years in a field here in Riverside California and have no vandalism at all. No graffitti at all.THere last paint date was 1972!! They still have schedules in them from the day they were sold in 1980. Anyway, if anyone is interested in updates... email me and I will keep you posted. 2397 is being restored as original 2 tone green and will be renumbered to original LATL#497
UP's PA1760, PA1761, PA1778 and PA1846 have been pulled from service at UP and are awaiting scrap at Carlton Yard (a bus storage lot located in the LIRR yard at Atlantic & Carlton Avenues in Brooklyn). This means there are no 1982 RTS's running out of UP, thanks to the arrival of the MCI's.
For those who guessed that a UP bus would be the last 1982 running in service, it looks like you're going to be out of the game.
I guess you Brooklyn guys can now vote for ex-UP buses--PA1819, PA1826, PA1844 and PA1852--or ex-JG PA1773. All of which are still running in QV, JAM and MJQuill (Westside) service. My vote happens to be for JAM's PA1844. Its in great condition and runs regularly on the X63 (I believe run 002), and yes, it has been decorated for Christmas (along with 9345).
Mark
My vote would have to go to 1826. I saw it twice this past week. On Thursday evening it was in service on the M30. On Friday morning it was in service on the X92. The bus looks like it has a fairly recent paint job which probably is a sure sign that the TA will scrap it soon.
Well after you pointed that out to me earlier, I picked 1826 which is a former UP bus. 1826 is my pick.
x92#1826Mike
While UP express riders enjoy their brand-spanking new MCI coaches, things here in the 'hood remain the same. Spotted yesterday on the X63 on Merrick Blvd was hard seater 5167. This happens as UP continues to hold on to their 1997 Novas (9257-9281, 9285-9344).
Meanwhile, over on Archer Avenue Orion soft seater #132 was weaving through traffic on the Q44! Oh well, who ever said life in "bus world" was fair anyway.
(BIG AL should have a ball with this post).
Mark
Hey Mark, how about this one: 115, 116, 121, 131, 141, 143, 144 and 146 were ALL on the Q32 yesterday. And what bus do I get? 568. Go Figure! However, I did get to ride on 131 on Thursday on the Q26.
Is 1755 still running about in Jamaica? Haven't seen her. I'm gonna try and get either 1747, 1752, 1755 or 1844 on Wednesday.
Q26#131Gary
Don't worry about 1755, she's probably getting a well needed rest. As for the Onion Vs, scrap them, scrap them, scrap them! I can't stress that enough, SCRAP THEM! I fear fot the safety of my own pick, 1767. Every night sleeping in the midst of those toolsheds on wheels waiting for some cruel Onion sympathizer to strip off her logos and decals like a maniac ripping the clothes off a beautiful woman before strangling her with piano wire! DAMN YOU OMIONS! DAMN YOU TO MIMCO!
Sorry, but as DH0F hates the RTS (I don't even begin to tell you what is wrong with that), I hate the Onions, all shapes and sizes. I'm starting to hate those stained teel MCIs as well. Instead of buying a beautiful E or G series they purchase more of those ugly D series. D, for despicable, detestful, and distasteful. At least the TA could let beautiful buses send the RTS to run that X68 or X63 in the sky, but not cardboard boxes and ugly fat stained pieces of garbage.
Okay, that's my pro-RTS, anti-Onion/MCI rant for the day. Thanks for reading. :-)
I feel your pain with 5167, I hate series 50 engines, but don't wish for an Onion, you'll want your hard-seater back.
Yep, I had a ball with your post Mark. And if you think that's something, wait till you guy's check out my next post.
BIG AL
Yep, that's right. Yesterday morning Orion Express bus 613 from Q.V. was operating on the Q2. I thought I was hallucinating, but there she was. I met up with it at the intersection of Hollis and Farmers blvd while I was doing the Q3. She pulled in front of me. Those people inside looked like they were having the ride of their lives. Q.V. must have been very short on buses yesterday morning.
Also, for you people who have been looking for Jamaica's 1755. It's in the shop with the transmission out. It's been down all week I believe but it seems like they are repairing it. Why I don't know but then again, we just have to keep the oldest buses running in Jamaica. I don't believe Q.V. is using any more 1700's for their Express lines since I've seen a number of them running on the Q2 also, so Jamaica is probably the only depot left in the system that is running old buses between the boroughs.
BIG AL
HAHA! But yet look at it in this way: Maybe QV will get Orions on their local lines soon. Once 256-316 come back form their engine overhaul at CS, where are buses 101-146 gonna go? They'll probably keep up to 119 at CS. 120-146 COULD go to QV for additional local service. I think putting 613 on the Q2 was just an EXPERIMENT. Now I hope that happens to me sometime this week on the Q46.
Another point: The reason why they're short: Because they're scrapping the 3900s and 4100s. Keep them till you can get a fleet of substitutes to replace them. For example: 4600s going into FP to drive the 3900s, 4000s, 4100s and 4200s out. Something has to happen like that to QV-otherwise you're gonna see 600 Express buses on local lines which are gonna get messed up. Anybody besides QV Bus Op seen 9377? If you do, you'll know what I mean. 131 and 136 from CS already have scratchitti and interior graffiti on them.
Q46#626Gary (I'm Hoping!)
PS I'll be on the lookout to board 1755 sometime this week too!
NO, NO, NO! First off, they do not need to experiment by putting an Orion on the Q2. What's there to experiment anyways? It's a bus. It will do the same job as an RTS. Also, putting soft seat buses on local routes will never become standard practice. It is only done as a last resort. I assure you the reason why the Orion was on the Q2 is strictly because they were short, most likely because of alot of defects that morning. We at Jamaica have that problem also. Sometimes you just have bad mornings where the buses don't want to start, signals don't work or other safety problems that the operators find on their pre-trip inspection.
Also, Q.V. is not short of buses because they have been scrapping them without getting replacements first. Each depot MUST have a certain number of buses available to pull out in the morning. This is called "making score". They will only scrap them when the replacements are already in, prepped up and deemed safe to enter service.
BIG AL
I just found out that Corgi will be producing the old green NYCTA fishbowl buses, due to be out in January or February!
Wow, any with batwings?
Unfortunately, no batwings from the pic I saw. But I, too am hoping for that.
when this comes out, annouce it on bustalk. cause id love to buy it(now if we had a ho scale of a RTS bus or a Orion V though)..
I'm waiting for Corgi to come out with scale model "Almond Joy" subway cars. They seem to be producing everything else.
OK, yesterday I had to wait almost a half hour in Flushing for an N21 that was running late big time. So today I stayed local. It's 3:25pm, is it quicker to walk a few miles to Greenvale or take the bus. You can figure this out pretty easily. The walk took 50 minutes and it was almost 4:25pm when I got to Greenvale. Now there's over an hour gap in southbound N27 service on Saturdays, one at 2:54pm and the other at 4:04pm. So when the bus got to Greenvale (a few minutes late) it was packed, so I was glad I walked instead. And I got there sooner than if I had waited for the 4:04 bus!
But going home I was going to take the N20 Flushing bound, get off in Roslyn, then get the N21 home to Glen Cove. The N20 was supposed to get to Greenvale at 5:20pm, and should get me to Roslyn in plenty of time to catch the 5:49pm N21. I did this because I figured I'd take it "easy" since the N21 bus stop is only a few minutes from my home, the N27 is about a 10 minute walk.
So I waited. and waited. And I dodged in and out of a yuppie store called Anthropologie, just to stay warm (it was nice during the day, but once night fell it got cold!).
It was 5:35pm and the N20 still had not showed. 5:40pm came, still no N20. I figured I'd miss my connection, so I walked on over to the N27 bus stop, right across Glen Cove road. And my N27 was 5 minutes late. And the N20 never showed. I feel bad for those two poor souls who had to continue to stand out there for the N20. So I was waiting all in all a half hour in the freezing cold, just for a bus home.
And the N27 bus was a pretty beat up looking diesel Orion, 606. A window was stuck open so there was a chilly draft in the bus. The driver passed some guy's stop. And half the stop strips were out of order.
I need some support here, I think we should arrange a trip down to LI Bus to make ourselves heard. Some type of movement needs to be organized. I've complained myself and there's never any action.
I see people who have $$ (like those in the Roslyn/Greenvale area) drop $300,$400 on just about anything they like without worry. These snobs can surely afford to pay $100 in to the bus system every year so we can have better service.
I'd like to see all the snobs wait out in the cold for a bus that never comes!
John, what can you expect? You're depending on a fleet of Orions. That alone screams unreliability. Then, the drivers are probably so embarrassed by what they're forced to pull out with, that they don't even want the pain of having passengers look upon them and laugh at what they're forced to operate on a daily basis.
So the next time you get on an Orion bus that is very late, you say to the driver, "It's an Orion, I know this. But it's okay, you don't have to be ashamed anymore. Hold your head up high because you and I know there is better out there. There is, the RTS. And one day my friend, you will drive one, and you will have all the dignity and respect you deserve." And as the tears roll down their Orion hardened cheeks, you slip to the back for a free ride.
Yeah, these Orions are nothing but problems. They keep breaking down. And I really think CNG was a mistake. Why the heck do buses have to be CNG but gas guzzling SUV's can roam around the county as they wish.
I sure wish we had an RTS fleet. And they do sound best with the 6V-92 which is quiet and smooth, but I'm afraid I have to admit Series 50 has the 6V-92 beat when it comes to speed.
Both beat the 6V-71N. Remember those slow pieces of crap?
On NYCTA buses, the engines are governed like hell so buses
are slow.
Sulfolk county buses use Orions too. But these buses are fast. The 3D I was on, reached 64MPH on NYS 25A.
I had the same problems but on MTA Buses last night. I was waiting over a half an hour for either the M5 or M7 at 23 St and 6th Ave-which never came. So my friend and I decided to walk along 23 St from 6th Ave over to Madison Ave and up to 27 St for the M2 or M3 up to transfer to the Q32. Waited about 10 minutes then the M3 came-bus 3471. I sure hope this bus becomes a NYPD bus because this bus was zipping up Madison Ave before 42 St and after 50 St. We got off at 60 St and Madison Ave- I figure that we can walk back to 59 St to get the Q32 to get to Queens. We wound up walking up to the 2nd Ave stop-which is the last stop before it goes over the QueensBoro Br. Wasn't coming. So we walked over to the Q60- The line was very long and no Q60. So we decided to try walking back to the Q32-STILL NO SIGN OF HER! Walked back to Lexington Ave and 60 St to get the subway because 45 minutes had already elapsed and we were freezing cold-STILL NO Q32. I wound up getting to Queens no Problem with the 7. But I was going home later on in the night from Jackson Heights and A-Gain waiting for the Q32. The last bus leaves 82 St and Roosevelt Ave at 106am. I got there at 1253am-just missing the 1246. At the same time, I just missed the # 7 train above as the Q29 bus that I took pulled in at the same time as the train. I waited and waited 106 came and past STILL NO Q32! 115 came-STILL NO Q32-SO I decided to take the RedBirds overhead once again which bailed me out. I have a question. I know that the Q32 is messed up because of Rockefeller Center but they sure hell need some service. Why not have something similar on the Q60 on the Q32-Shuttles? This bus screwed me over ALL DAY YESTERDAY!
Christmas shopping and the Rockefeller Center Christmas Tree causes a tremendous amount of increased auto traffic and the accompanying double and triple parking. Since buses can't fly, the schedules are virtually out the window. 2 more weekends are left till Christmas. Once the bus shows up, notice how much longer your trip will take because of all the traffic. I wouldn't depend on any bus schedule for a while if I were you!
Let me know if you need any route info
Take Care
Steve
FDNY
I need short turn info ,,or corrections
I will be doing each company ,loook at them and let me know !!
Thanks
Steve
Q6
Hillside and Sutphin via Hillside ,Nassau Exwp,.Rockaway Blvd,Farmers Blv entrance,North Boundary Road,Eastern Rd to Bldg 77 ..Return via same Rockaway Blvd,Sutphin.88 Av ,148 St,Hillside
Q6 Jamaica Terminal via Merrick ,Jamaica Av,SutphinBlvd.Return via Sutphin ,Archer Av,168 st,89 Av,Merrick Blvd to Terminal
Baisley Park Trips end at Rockaway Blvd--turnaround unknown
I believe around the Baisley Legion Sq Counterclockwise and Sutphin Blvd
Farmers Blvd Trips via same to 147 Av ,Farmers Blvd,Rockaway Tpke
---------------------------------------------------
Q7
Pitkin Av and Euclid av via Pitkin,Euclid Av,Glenmore Av,Drew St,Pitkin Av,84 St,Sutter Av,Cross Bay Blvd Liberty Av,,Rockaway Blvd.,150 St,147 Av,147 St,150 Av148 St,terminate at 147 Av CORNELL PARK
others via 150 st,147 Av,147 st,into 148 st,,Stop at Compass Road
Return via S Cargo Road,Cargo Plaza West,150 Av,148 st,into 150 st Rockaway Blvd,,94 st,Cross Bay ,Sutter Av,84 st,Pitkin av to Euclid
some to Rockaway Blvd to NORTH CONDUIT
some from Airport to Rockaway Blvd,94 st,terminate south of Liberty Av,,U turn at Sutter Av back to Rockaway Blvd
Q8 from Terminal via Merrick blvd,Jamaica Av,Sutphin Blvd ,14st, 101 Av,LIberty Av,Grant Av,Pitkin to stand at Euclid Av,,Return via Pitkin,Euclid Av,Glenmore Av,Forbell St,,Liberty Av,76 st ,,101 Av,Waltham St,Liberty Av Sutphin Blvd ,Archer Av,168 st,89 Av,Merrick Blvd into Terminal
Q9
same as Q8 in the Jamaica Downtown Area
then via Liberty Av,Van Wyck South Service Road,Lincoln st,to stand north of Rockaway Blvd
Return via Rockaway BLvd,134 st,120 Av,Rockaway Blvd,Lincoln St,135 st,Liberty Av
Q9A
Terminal ,Merrick Blvd,Linden Blvd ,Lincoln St and same ,return same as Q9 to Linden Blvd,Merrick Blvd,168 st,89 av Merrick Blvd to Terminal
-------------------------------------------------
Q10
Kew Gardens Road,80 Road ,Austin st,Lefferts Blvd,Terminate At Rockaway Blvd,
Loop via
Rockaway Blvd,122 st,116 Av,Rockaway Blvd
or
Rockaway Blvd,118 st,115 av,Rockaway Blvd
return via Lefferts Blvd,Kew Gardens Road
Buses going to ( 3 PM to 10 PM )
Leff/Rock or 131 and Rockaway or 130 and 150 Av
via Kew Gardens Road,Queens Blvd to stand
Return via 82 Av or 83 Av,,or 82Rd to Kew Gardens Rooad,,and Lefferts Blvd
Via Rockaway Blvd via Lefferts,Rockaway Bvd,131 st,End of Line
or Via 131 st,135 Av,130 st to 150 Av End of line
or via 130 St,150 Av,149 Av,134 st,150 av,Van Wyck Expressway ,Bergen Road,Federal Circle ,130 Place to Airport
Return from Airport via Van Wyck ,Bergern Road,130 Place134 st,149 Av,150 Av,130 St,135 Av,131 and same
via Conduit Blvd
via Lefferts to 149 av av..Return via 149 av,122 st,N Condui to Lefferts Blvd
DHD from 131 and Rockaway via Van Wyck Expressway Northbound
130 st and 150 Av Turnarounds
via 150 av,131 st,South Conduit,132 st,150 Av,130 st
via 150 Av,129 st,S Conduit ,130 st
via 130 st,S Conduit ,131 st,150 av,130 st
Q10A
via Van Wyck Expressway SB Only
Q11
Woodhaven Blvd South of Queens Blvd
(NB Buses via Woodhaven ,Queens Blvd Eastbound,,Uturn under LIE Queens Blvd Westbound)
via WOodhaven Blvd,94 st,Cross Bay Blvd
Liberty Av SB Buses U Turn at Sutter Av
and NB on Cross Bay Blvd
NB Liberty Av Buses via Cross Bat ,Rockaway Blvd,94 st Cross Bay
157 Av Trips
via Cross Bay ,153 Av,155 Av,84 st,Shore PWy Underpass,84 st,157 Av end at Cross Bay ,,return via NB Cross Bay Blvd
continue via Pitkin Av,97 st,Centreville St,Eckford St,Hawtree St
Old South Road Trips terminate at S Conduit Blvd
Hawtree St,Cohancey St,155 av,101 st
to Howard Bch via 101 st,160 Av,99 st,164 av,96 st,165 av and end at 99 st
return from Hamilton Beach via 165 av,99 st,160 av,102 st,,157 av,Cohancey St,N Conduit av,ALbert Road,Centreville St,Pitkin Av Cross Bay
to Hamilton Beach via 101 st,160 av,102 st,Lenihan Bridge,102 st,Russell St,104st,south of 165 av,,uturn around the Flag Pole
Return same to 102 st,157 av,,etc
165 av Trips via SB Cross Bay,,u turn at 165 av,and Stand
----------------------------------------------------
q37
131 st and 135 av via 131 st,135 av pickup at 130 st and start via 135 av,116 st,133 av,114 st,Rockaway Blvd,
Myrtle Av,Park Lane South ,Union Tpke ,stand at Queens Blvd, ret via QUeens Blvd,80 Road,Park Lane South ,Myrtle Av,111 st,
some end at Rockaway Blvd--turnaound needed
continue via 111 st Rockaway Blvd,114 st,133 av,116 street ,135 av,130 Place,135 road,131 st end at 135 av
---------------------------------------------
Q40 from Sutphin and Hillside via Hillside ,Sutphin Blvd,Lakewood Av ,142 st,111 av,142 st,Rockaway Blvd,143 st135 av,140 and stand..return via135 av,140 st,rockaway ,,,etc etc Sutphin,88 av,148 st,Hillisde,Sutphin
Q41 from Terminal via Merrick Blvd,Jamaica Av,Sutphin Blvd,,94 av,Atlantic Av,133 st,95 av,127 st,Liverty Av,127 st,109 av,127 st,111 av,111 st,109 av,Rockaway Blvd,94 st,Cross Bay
LIBERTY AV TRIPS
Utrun at Sutter going sb
or via Cross Bay ,Rockaway ,94 st,,Cross Bay
( from 157 av and Cross ay)
Rockaway Blvd,94 st,Cross Bay ,,153 av,155 av,84 st,SHore Pwy underpass,84 st,157 av,
Buses going to Liberty av,come South Bound on Cross bay and START on 157 av thru Lindenwood
157 av,Cross Bay ,to 164 av
return via 164 av,84 st,Cross Bay ,157 av,84 st,155 av,89 st,South Conduit
Cross Bay ,Liberty A,Rockaway Blvd,109 av,111 st,111 av,130 st,109 av,128 st,Liberty av,127 st,95 av 134 st,Atlantic Av,94 av,Sutphin ,Archer ,168 st,89 av,Merrick into Terminal
--------------------------------------------
Q60
109 av at 157 st,via 109 av,Sutphin Blvd,Archer ,139 st,Jamaica Av,Queens Blvd
Some terminate at 90 st,on Queens ,then via 90 st,56 av (IS THIS CORRECT_)
Queens Blvd ,Bridge Plaza north at Northern Blvd ,Bridge,East 60 st and end at 2 av,
Return via 2 av,East 59 st,Bridge Plaza South ,Queens Blvd,amiaca Avenue,,139 st,Archer Av,Sutphin Blvd ,108 v,157 st,109 av and stand
Jamaica Av Trips via Queens Blvd,to Jamaica Av
return via Jamaica Av,Van Wyck NB Service Road,,Hillside av,Queens Blvd
33 st Trips
via WEstbound Queens Blvd,end at 33 st
return via Queens Blvd,32 st,Queens blv eastbound
QM15
159 av at 102 st via 102 st,IND STATION ,102 st,,157 av av,,157 av,84 st,155 av,89 st,South Conduit ,Cross Bay
Some putins at 157 av from SB Cross Bay
Cross Bay ,Woodhaven ,63 Drive,,Woodhaven Blvd,LIE
return via Queens Blvd,Woodhaven Blvd,Cross Bat ,153 av,155 av,84 st,157 av, 101 st,160 av,102 st to end at HOWARD BEACH IND
some from Manhattan on 157 av EB,end at Cross bay
QM18
Lefferts at 150 av via Lefferts,83 av,Queen bvld,Woodhaven LIE
return via Queens Blvd,Kew Gardens Road Lefferts,,
Does anyone know the turnaround at 150 av
QM23
Jamiaca Av and 102 st (I need turnaround routings here)
via Jamiaca Av,Woodhaven Blvd,63 Drive,Queens Blvd,Woodhaven Blvd,LIE,,Midtown Tunnel ,East 34 ,7 av,West 33 to 8 av,retu via 8 av,West 34 Tunnel ,LIEQM21 at Cross Bay and Liberty Av,via Woodhaven ,Rockawat ,94 st,Cross Bay ,,153 av,155 av,84 st,157 av ( returning via 157 ,84,155 av,151 av,89 st,South Conduit,,Cross Bay to Liberty Av)
157 av Return same to Beach 94 st,Bridge,
--------------------------------------------------
Q22
Beach 21 st Plaza via Beach 21,Mott Av,Cornaga Av,Beach 20 st,
Retrn via Seagirt ,Beach 19 st,Cornaga Av,Beach 21 st
Beach 20 st ,Seagirt Blvd,,Beach Channel Drive
some 51 st Trips
to 169 or 116 st start here
Beach Channel Drive,,Beach 73 st
Beach 56 st trips start on Edgemere av,to Beach 108 st
Beach 83 ,Rockaway Blvd (Beach )
there are trips BEACH 86 st
these go to Beach 116 st
ROckaway Beach blvd ,Beach 102 st,Rockaway Beach Blv d,,,Beach Channel Drive,Beach 169 st Roxbury
return via BEach 169 st,,left into Drive,,and on to Beach Channel Dr
some via BEach Channel Drive, Breezy Blvd State Road,,Rockaway PtBlvd,,Beach 219 st,4 av,Beach 222 and stand
Ret via 222,Breezy Pt blvd,219 st ,ROckaway PT etc
BEACH 116 st Trips
on on Rckwy Beach Blvd,,,then via Beach 116 st,and Beach Channel Drive
Put in via Beach Channel Drive,,Beach 117 st,,ROckaway Bch Blvd Eastbound
Q22A
Mott Av at Beach 21 st,via MOtt Av,Central Av,Nameoak st,Cornaga Av,Mott Av end at BEach 21 st
or Continue via Mott av,Dunbar St,Westbourne Av,Norton Dr,Bayswater Av,Mott Av to Beach 21 st
Q35
Newport av at Beach 116 st,via Newport Av,Beach 116 st,Beach Channel ,Beach 117 st, Newport av,Beach 147 st,,Beach Channel Drive,beach 169 st,,Uturn ,Beach Chanel ,,Marine Park Bridge
Return via Bridge,,Beach Channel Drive,,,etc etc etc to Newport and 116 st
Bridge ,Flatbush Av,etc
Some via Flatbush Av,Nostrand A,Glenwood Rd,Bedford Av,Av I ,,Nostrand ,to stand at Glenwood Rd
QM16
Beach 116 ,Rockaway Bch Blvd,,Beach 102 ,RBB,BEach 94 st,Cross Bay lvd
Return via Lindenwood Routing ,,157 av,Cros Bay ,Beach 95 st,RBB ,,,to beach 116 st,
Runoff via Beach 116 st and Beach Channel Driv
QM17
Beach 21 st Plaza
Q22 Routing to Bridge
Same return as Qm16 ,,and Q22 routing
MANHATTAN
QM15 16 17 18
via Tunnel ,East 34 st,,,Av of Americas 6 av,,east 57 st,end at 3 av
Return from 34 st and 3 av via East 34 st,Av of Americas ,,East 57 st,3 av or 2 av Controflow to Queensboro Bridge
q110
88 aV AT 153 VIA 88 AV,Parsons Blvd,Jamaica av,,Hempstead Av,
Cross Island Parkway NB to service Road and stand
return via Hempstead av,Jamiaca Av,,153 st,88 av and stand
some via Hempstead Av,Jamiaca Av,179 Place,stand at Hillside Av,
return via 79 Place,Hillisde Av,187 Place
212 st Turnarounds
Jamiaca Av,Hempstead Av,213 st,Jamiaca Av
QM112
Parsons Blvd south of 88 av,via Parsons ,Archer Av,NY Blvd,South Road,Waltham St,Liberty Av,100 st and stand
retun via 100 st,Rockaway B,98 st,Liberty Av,,etc etc ,,Archer av,153 st,88 av,Parsons
TERMINALS ARE ON PARSONS BLVD SOUTH OF 88
for the Q110 and 112
Q111
Parsons Blvd at Hillside via Parsons ,Archer Av,NY BLvd,147 av,Francis Lewis,,Hook Creek Blvd,Hungry Harbour Rd,Brookfield Rd,Rosedale Rd,Mill Rd,Peninsula Blvd,to Mall West of Rockaway Tpke
these are LTD Trips ---Mall Trips
137 av Trips via NY BLvd, 140 av,167 st,137 av
Farmers Blvd trips
end at NY and Farmers Bvd,,then via Farmers Blvd, 145 Road,NY Blvd
Regualr Trips to rosedale
via Franicis Lewis Blvd,into Private R O W
return via 148 av,Francis Lewis Blvd
Northbound
return to Jaaica via 153 st,Hillside Av,Parsons Blvd
Q113
same as 111 in Jamaica
NY Blvd ,,147 av,,Brookville Blvd,Broad St,,Rockaway Blvd,Rocikaway Tpke,Mott Av,,,Lawrence Av,Wanser Av,Doughtery av,Bayview Av,Sheridan Blvd
Beach Channel Drive
,Nameoake St,Central Av,Cornaga Av,Beach 9 st,SeagirtBlvd,,,u turn at beach 20
Return on Seagirt from Crest Road
Seagirt Blvd,Beach 9 st Cornaga Av,Mott Av,Beach Channel Drive
Q113 LTD
from Peninsula Blvd via Nassay Expressway Burnside Av,,Sheridan ,,and same
return same
QM21
Bedell St at 127 av,via Bedell st,176 st,137 av, N YBlvd
Linden Blvd,Van Wyck ,Queens Blvd SOME START HERE
returning via NY Blvd,Baisley Blvd,,Bedell st,176 st,137 av,NY Blvd stand at Baisley Blvd
via Midtown Tunnel routing ,east 38 st,2 av,east 23 st,Madison Av,East 57 st to 3 av
Return from east 23 st at Park av via east 23 st,Madison Av,East 57 ,3 or 2 av Contra,Bridge
B100
East 16 st bet Kings Hwy and Quentin via East 16,Quentin Road ( ret via Ocean Av and Kings Hwy and esat 16 st)
Nostrand Av,Gerritsen Av,Fillmore Av,Flatbush Av,Fillmore Av,Av T,Mill Av,Av U ,East 66 st,National Drive,Strickland Av,east 56 to Stand
Ret via east 56 st
B103
from East 94 and Flatlands Av via Flatlands Av,East 105 st,Av M,East 80,Glenwood Rd,H ,Flatbush Av,Cortleyou av,Coney Island Av,Church Av,Prospect Expressway ,Windsor Place,,4 av,Union St,3 av, Schmerhorn St,,Flatbush Av,Livingston St,Boerum Place,Adams St to stand South of Johnson St,,,ret via Adams Start IFO Supreme Court via Adams St,Boerum Pla,Livingston St,Flatbuxh Av,3 Av,etc et
Union St or President St,4 av,17 st,Expressway ,19 st,10 Av, 20 st ,McDonald Av,Church av,Coney island Av,Cortlyou rd,Flatbush Av,Av H
Glenwood rd,East 80 st,Avenye M,,East 105 St,Flatlands to east 94 st
Buses going to Starrett City via Flatlands from East 94s,,Remsen Av,Av J,Rockaway Pwy ,Flatlands Av,Louisisa Av,Seaveiw Av,Penn Av,Vandalia BM1
Est 56 st and Strickland via east 56 Drive,East 66 st,Av U,Veterens Av,east 71 st,Av U ,Mill Av,Ralph Av,Av K ,Ocean Av,Cortleyou ,Coney Island Ret same to Esat 71 ,U ,East 66 st,National Drive ,Stirckland Av,East 56 Drive
BM2
East 94 and Flatland s,,,via Flatlands ,East 105 st,Av M,East 80,Farragut ,Glenwood Rd,
BM2S
Av M,East 105 st,Flatlands ,Louisians Av,Penn Av,Seaview Av,Loop,Penn Av,Vandalia Av,Van Sicklen Av,Cozine ,Ashford
BM3
Emmons Av,west of Shore Blvd via emmons Av,Knapp St,Shore Pwkay N service Road,Batchelder St,Z,Coyle St,Y ,Knapp St,W,Batchelders ,X,Ocean Av,Cortleyou
Ret same to Batchelder ,Voorhies Av,knapp St,Emmons Av,Shore Blvd,Cass Place,,Emmons Av
AM
PM Buses via Knapp St,,Emmons Av to Shore Blvd Terminal ,,Cass Place,Shore Blvd,Emmons Av DHD
NEW
via Emmons ,Coney Island Av,Guider and Layover,,,then via GuiderAv,Emmons Av,to west of shore Blvd
BM4
Cortelyuo Rd,ocean Av,K ,Nostrand Av,Gerritsen ,,south of Lois av,Pullinto Loop
BQM 1
av M and East 80 st via Av M,east 105 st,Flatlands AvPenn Av
Starrett City
Seaview Loop
Penn Av
Vandalaia Av,,Van Sicklen St,Cozine Av,Ashford St,Linden Blvd,Counduit Av,Cross Bay Woodhaven Blvd,LIE
ret via Queens Blvd,Woodhaven >Cross Bay ,Redding St,149 Av,Conduit to East 80 Canarsie or Starrett City
BMJ1 Sheepshead Bay -Meadowlands
BMJ2 Starrett City-- Meadowlands
BQ5 Racetrack Bay Ridge
BQ10 Flatbush Nostrand to Aqueduct or Belmont
RACETRACKS
BQ11
Coney Island Stillwell Mermaid to RACETRACKS
BQ11 Kings Hwy east 14 to Racetracls
BQ12 Flatbush /Nostrand to Shea Stadium
BW4 Yonkers Racetrack Bay Ridge
or via BMJ2 Routing to Sheepshead Bay
BxM1`
261 and Riverdale Av,via Henry Hudson Av,Kappock St,Johnson Av,,230 st Broadway
Some start at Independance and 239 st,,to 237 st via Independance Av
Riverdale Super Express via Riverdale Av to 230 st
Inwood trips via Broadway ,Dyckman St
Regualr Route via 10 Av,
Harlem River Drive,,132 st,5 Av,East 96 st,Lexington ,to stand bet 34 and 33 st
Ret via Lex 30 or 32 st,,3 Av,East 127 st,Harlem River Drive
BxM2 same Bronx Terminals ,then via 230 Major Deegan Expressway ,138 st,,5 Av,
86 st,,,or ,,,79 st,Transverse to Central Park west,
west 63 st,Broadway
some via 66 st Transverse to Broadway
,7 av,to stand bet 34 and 33 st
Ret via
wests 32 st,west 33 st stand
6 av,Central Park South,,Central Park West West 96 or west 86 st,,to Madison Av,138 st to Deegan
=======================================
BxM3
Yonkers Getty Square,via Main St,Riverdale Av,Hudson St,,South Broadway Broadway ,Van Cortland Park South VN Cortland West,,,Sedgewick Av,Fordham Road,Deegan,,,
Super Express via Bailey Av,230 ,Deegan
NB via Deegan ,,179 st,,Sedgewick Av
SB via Deegan ,138 st,5 av ,east 26 to stand at Madison
NB via 26,Madison Av,et
======================================
BXM 4A
Scott Towers on Paul Av,,via SB on Paul ,205 st,Goulden Av,Bedford Park Blvd,Paul av,West Moshulu ,Dickerson st,Gun Hill ,Bainbridge av,Van Cortlandt East,Grand COnd,,138 st, and same via 5 av to 26 st
BxM 4 B
Katonah Av Van Corltnadt Park East via Katonah A,233 st,,
Super Express via Deegan to 138 st
233 st,Jerome Av,Bainbridge Av
etc
=========================================
BxM 11
241 at Wakefield Taxi ,
Uturn via 241 to Baychestr Turnaruond
via White Plains Rd,Pelham Parkway ,Bron× River Parkway ,east 177 st ,Sheridan Exp,
some via Boston Rod ,Bronxdale Parking lot of Bronx Zoo
Sheridan Expressway ,Bruckner Blvd,Exterior St,138 st, 5 Av,to 23 st
Ret via 5 av,Madison ,to stand at East 26 st,
,,then via Madison 138 st ,Exterior,Bruckner Blvd,,Bronx River Pwy
Peak Hour Buses via Triboro Bridge
2 av,106 st,5 av,,to 23,
Ret from east 26 via Madison ,106,3 av,124 st,Triboro Bridge
============================================
BxM 18
Riverdale Av at 263 st
via Riverdale Av,Henry Hudson Pwy ,Kappock st,Johnson av,230 ,Deegan expressway,138 st,5 av,,Broadway ,east 17 st,Union sq East,Broadway ,to Battery Place
Ret via Greenwich ,Triinity ,Chhurch 23 st to Madison , 138 st,,Bruckner Blvd
West Side trips Northbound via 6 av,Central Park South ,Central Park West96 st,to Madison
---------------------------------------------------
Triboro Bridge via 125,,2 ,86, 5 av,23 st to stand
Ret via 23,Madison av,72 st,3 av,124 ,Triboro Bridge
BxN 6 Trioro Bridge
Bruckner Blvd, Bronx River Av,Cross Bx Expresssway ,White Plains Rd,Westchester Av,Hugh grant Ciricle ,Metro Av,Met Oval to stand south of Unionport
Ret via Metro Av,Cx Bx Expw,Bx River Av,Bruckner ex
Alternate via Sheridan Expwy,,177 st,Cross Bx
return via Cx Bx to Sheridan Xwy
BxM 7
Dreiser Loop,Coop City Blvd,,Asch Loop,Bartow Av,Einstein Loop,Hutchinson ,Boller Av,Hunter,Esrskine Place,NE Thruway,Hutch,Bruckner Blvd
Ret via NE Thruway,exit 9,,Palmer Av and same
Super express via Conner st,New England Thruway
Bx M 7 A
Pelham Bay Station and Bx12 Bx5 loops
via Westchester Av,Crosby av,Middleton Av,Bruckner
Ret via Bruckner,Jarvis Av,Middleton Av,Crosby Westchester Av,Bruckner Bl vd
Bxm 7 B
City Island Rochelle St U turn
City Island Av,Shore Rd,Pelahm Pwy ,Bruckner Blvd
=====================================
Bx M 9
Layton Av at Vincent Av via Layton av,Dean Av,Phillip Av, Clarence Av,Randall Av,,Ellsworth ,Throggs Neck Blvd ( Ret via Ellsworth to Layton)
Allen Drive to Edgewater Park
Allen Dr,Lawton Av,Pennyfield Av,,Harding Av,Tremont Av,Randall av,Cx Bx Exyw.Bruckner Expressway
BX M 10
Eastchester and Boston Rd via Eastchester R,Morris Park ,177 st,Sheridan Epxressway
some via Morris Park ,Tremont ,White Plains Rd,Cx Bx ,Bronx river av,,Bruckner Blvd and same in return
A few minor corrections:
Q37: Rockaway Blvd, 111 St, Myrtle Ave, Park Lane South, Park Lane, Union Tpke, stand at Queens Blvd. Actual return via Kew Gardens Rd to 80 Rd.
QM18: Lefferts Blvd, Kew Gardens Rd, 83 Ave,........
q37 abd Qm18 updates,,thank you
The Q11 doesn't do the trips to Old South Rd. and it doesn't do runs via Lindenwood to X-Bay/157(by Blockbuster and New Park Pizza)
these runs are still documented to 165 or Old South rd,,,,so I included them here
Thanx for all the info, but GEEZ! How long did it take to type all this???
What, the shoppers can't take the subway and bus like the rest of us?
The city should post large warning signs this time of year and enforce them vigorously: double-parked cars are ticketed ($55) within five minutes and are towed on the third offense of the month. Triple-parked cars are towed immediately. Oh, and the bus lane is kept clear for (get this!) buses.
I don't see them doing anything about double parking in Queens, especially on Northern Blvd in Bayside and Little Neck.
Buses use the right lane and get delayed by double parkers. Some drivers are so mad they put their hand on the horn and scare the hell out of the car (or SUV) driver and they move.
Also there doesn't seem to be much enforcement of "don't block the box" in Queens and lower Manhattan.
Like I said, it's a radical idea but cars for personal use should be banned from parts of Manhattan (like Midtown and lower Manhattan) and also some parts of Queens (like downtown Flushing).
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/railsandtrains
[Like I said, it's a radical idea but cars for personal use should be banned from parts of Manhattan ]
1. If they can't enforce the rules now how could they do it when this new rule would be introduced.
2. If they were to enforce parking/stopping box blocking and jaywalking rules the situation probably would be OK for buses.
A little while ago Giuliany promised to enforce just that, I haven't noticed any improvement or enforcement whatsoever.
Arti
Perhaps the Orions (most of which are the older models with the 6V-92) keep breaking down. Stengal's routes seem to be some of the most irregular bus routes in Queens.
And it's an all Orion depot. Any coincidence?
Orion has improved in their newer models but anything 1996 and prior is crap.
What's wrong with people who have money? If they worked hard to earn it, why should that be a problem to anyone? Are you willing to pay $100 every year for better service?
If I had an income over $100,000 a year, I would pay $100. It's my obligation.
Hey, what's up with the Orions? I mean, i have heard people complain non-stop about these buses, so why are the transit companies uying them? I mean, i can understand the Orion II-it's the only low floor mini bus being produced in the US. However, the Vs and VIs. If they are so bad, why are they so popular? Are they cheaper, like the Phantoms? Well, i certainly know this-the NABIs are taking the country by storm, and everyone is getting them! Plus, I know that SEPTA always gets good buses, lol, although I'm sure that some of you will beg to differ (also, I don't consider the RTS to be a great bus anymore, no offense to those that do).
>>>Hey, what's up with the Orions? I mean, i have heard people complain non-stop about these buses,<<<
Have you ever heard of the term crap? Well, if you haven't, look it up in the dictionary and their will be a picture of an Onion V.
>>>so why are the transit companies uying them?<<<
I assume you mean buying, but that's not the point. Just because a tranit authority, or many, buys a bus, doesn't mean it's good. Does Grumman 870 or Gillig Phantom ring a bell? Also, they're looking at that oh so beautiful shoebox design (note the sarcasm). See, TAs want to look high-tech. Somewhere in their heads they have this idea that high-tech equals horrible, boring shoebox design. It doesn't as the auto industry has proven, but alas, some companies haven't decipherd that, including Houston and *cough* SEPTA *cough*.
>>>If they are so bad, why are they so popular?<<<
The Onion Vs are the Spice Girls of the bus industry. The RTS IS the bus industry. They will be forever umbiguous(sp?).
>>>Are they cheaper<<<
I'd hope so. You shouldn't have to pay top dollar for crap.
>>>Well, i certainly know this-the NABIs are taking the country by storm, and everyone is getting them!<<<
Yeah, those Grummans are amazing, I think they'll be around a loooooooong time without rehab--oh wait, wrong decade. If you want to see how your prescious NABIs will look in say, seven years come to Houston.
>>>I know that SEPTA always gets good buses<<<
Weeeeeelllll, you don't have any RTS buses, not even a series 50, you lose points on that alone. Then, if NABI still churns out crap like MTA Houston 2400-2585, and 2700-2753, then I really don't understand what you have that's so good.
>>>also, I don't consider the RTS to be a great bus anymore<<<
I'm afraid you're right about that, but it's better than an Onion. Okay, that's not saying much. The current RTS is 100 times better than an Onion, even with those horrible series 50s. But that's another story. Give it back the old 6v92TA and then my my friend, you have a good bus, no, you have a great bus.
Now that DC is becoming dominated by the Orions, I think Basman is right, they are good buses. They have a good ride, and while they aren't the most sleek looking buses on the road, they certainly do a great job. I have never seen an RTS with automated annoucements announcing stops. I have never seen an RTS that has a destination sign readible from far away. I've never seen an RTS that can load a wheelchair from the front door anywhere else than Chicago and those RTS-08 buses are UGLY!!! I'm sorry, but other than the fact RTS meant New York had a very undiverse fleet until the Orions started arriving, the golden age of the RTS is OVER. The Orions are coming and so are the NABI's and Gilligs. Here in DC, Ride-On and its Gilligs do great on the neighboorhood routes, and the Orions from both Ride-On and MetroBus do a great job. Our 1979 RTS buses are being scrapped. After all, who needs them? They have impossible to read signs, the seats are in sad shape, the only advantage to them is the fact they are softer than the seats on the Flxible Metro-B and D.
I rest my case.
I can bring this issue up on the Take One poll on Oren's Transit Page a week from Monday. Next week's question has already been decided.
YES! THAT IS RIGHT! Finally, someone else is on my side! Orions are seriously not that bad, and neither are the Gilligs, except for the sorta boxy design (and that the Gillig design hasn't really changed too much). And I have ridden those 1979 RTS buses, and seriously, they actually aren't that great, and it was the same with SEPTA's RTS buses. I just seem to remember this yellowish interior at night, not really bright or anything, and I have said only so many times, the RTS is an old design. It's an 80's design, and what I mean is that no one else uses those plug type doors anymore. However, I have nothing against the RTS, hehe.
In that case the Orion is an old 80's design as well. I've seen an Orion I and the only difference I noticed from NYC's 6000 series is that the headlights are different. Wow, big change. Those new square headlights are SOOOOO far ahead of the RTS and it's sleek, handsome curves and proven relaibilty. I guess I might as well hop on the Orion bandwagon with it's "modern" shoebox design (which car companies abandoned in the late 80s early 90s), no brighter than your average Nova dest. sign but is somehow seen that way, and utter decrepidness. Yeah, right. As always I'm...
RTS4Life
As usual I'm going to have to disagree with you. In my book the RTS sucks. I'd rather drive anything else. Thank God my depot is finally getting New Flyer articulateds and the RTS's will be on their way out the door. The few drivers in my depot who have already been trained on the New Flyer's are already raving about them. These are veterans who have driven nothing but RTS's and they can't believe how much better the New Flyers are. When I speak to drivers who work the M86 line out of Quill Depot(which is strictly an articulated line)they absolutely love the New Flyer. One guy who has 16 years on the job said he would never ever go back to an RTS. I have friends who drive out of Amsterdam Depot which is 100% Orion and they all say the Orion is superior to the RTS. Sorry RTS 2150, I don't mean to be so hard on your favorite bus but like I said previously it's one thing being a bus fan and another thing having to spend 8-10 hours behind the wheel of one of these things. I know you said the drivers in Houston like them but I'm pretty sure the driving conditions in Houston aren't as difficult as they are here in New York. Your streets have to be in better condition and I'm sure your routes aren't as short with the multitude of stops that we have here. The RTS might be a better bus to drive in Houston's enviroment but here in NYC it is a torture.
Honestly for a moment, I had nearly given up. But then I remembered, you're human. It's natural to want something new after so long of the same thing. When you get something new, whether it's REALLY better than what you had it's going to seem better, especially when it probably has more little "creature comforts" than it's 12+ counterparts. See, as a bus driver, it must be torture to be behind that wheel for so long in a bus that was just built for tough and rugged performance, not really with driver comforts in mind. But then, when you get something with a little extra padding in the drivers seat, a nice little fan, a cute little shade, and some extra speed that will not even matter when you're stuck in Manhattan traffic, it feels good, even if it is not good. So yes, I will concede, DRIVING an Orion IS superior to driving an RTS, maybe. But, the current catalog of Orions will NEEEEEEEVER be superior to any model RTS 1981-1994. Nova has really dropped the ball, but a good Nova is better than a good Orion.
The only transit bus worthy of dethronong the RTS, is the New Flyer D40LF. A bus that looks good with that shoebox design, a bus that can tear up any street, and can give cars some competition in the acceleration department. New Flyers are the future of transit, Orions are the future of Nimco.
RTS4Life
2150, you might want to put a tag at the end of RTS4LIFE so the rest of the page does not look that way.
Believe me the New Flyer articulated is really better and not just an illusion as you seem to think. I would love for you to spend some time behind the wheel of your beloved RTS. I would love to see you deal with the archaic climate control system that either freezes you out or roasts you to death. I would love to see you deal with the inane placement of switches and controls. I would love to see you find a comfortable driving position in a compartment designed for munchkins. I would love for you to experience the wonderful ride that transmits every bump straight to your spine. I would love to see you maneuver this wonderful design with it's abundance of blind spots through some of the tight spaces that we have to drive through. Oh yeah really great bus. When Moe, Larry and Curly designed this tough and rugged bus I'm so glad they thought of the poor bastards that would have to spend a good portion of their lives driving it. The best view of an RTS is when it's laying on it's side in a scrap yard. I don't care if the Orions or New Flyers don't last as long. These manufacturers at least thought of the driver when they designed these vehicles.
>>>The best view of an RTS is when it's laying on it's side in a scrap yard.<<<
No, the best view of an RTS is when it's flying by a broken down Orion.
>>>These manufacturers at least thought of the driver when they designed these vehicles.<<<
That's fine and dandy. Too bad the driver will only them for say seven years before the bus degenerates into crap. At least the manufactuers of the RTS thought of maintenence, relaibility, durabilty, longevity, and general asthetics when they designed these buses.
>>>I would love for you to spend some time behind the wheel of your beloved RTS. I would love to see you deal with the archaic climate control system that either freezes you out or roasts you to death. I would love to see you deal with the inane placement of switches and controls. I would love to see you find a comfortable driving position in a compartment designed for munchkins. I would love for you to experience the wonderful ride that transmits every bump straight to your spine. I would love to see you maneuver this wonderful design with it's abundance of blind spots through some of the tight spaces that we have to drive through.<<<
You would?! Me too! You see my e-mail below my handle, maybe we should somehow set this up. I sure would love to drive around NYC in a beautiful RTS. Hell, you can even arrange for me to drive one of the 1985 twins (4164 and 4165) out of your 126th Street Depot. I'd love to take one of them on a tour of duty on the M3, M15, M23, M86, M101, X17 (the whole two hour journey), X63, and the X68 ALL IN ONE DAY. You don't know how much I'd LOVE that. Then, after that long tour of duty on NYC's heaviest routes, I'd get off that bus, worn out yes. Then, I'd say to you, D60HF (I'd know your real name by then), you're right, I have changed my mind. The RTS isn't my favorite bus anymore, it's my ALL-TIME favorite bus, and I want to thank you for this great experience. Then, I'd turn around and give 4164 and 4165 a huge kiss right under the windshield. Oh, and one more thing...
RTS4Life
You know, I remember riding an RTS on New York's fleet a while ago. A lot of black, and, well, the destination sign isn't that big, and, well, I think it had that 6V-92 engine one it or whatever it's called. Personally, I think the best buses are the Neoplans. They look, sound, and feel great. Also, I remember about riding a new york bus (an RTS, of course) is that there was a blue strip on the interior wall, instead of just the outside wall. Also, another thing, it's sorta disgusting to kiss an RTS bus. Also, I personally think on of the annoying things about maybe driving an RTS (I personally havent' driven one) is how high the seat is. Also, the RTS design doesn't really utilize the 40ft of space that well, and also, THE FRONT DOOR IS WAY TOO SMALL! Besides, I took a look at a picture of an RTS, and the windows seemed so small and high on the bus, it just gave it a sort of ugly look. Also, in a way, you sorta can't judge Orion Vs by their age, since the oldest one ever made was made in 1992. So, you can't say that they don't last for more than a decade, because they haven't lasted a decade yet! Oh, and the best view of an Orion is when is standing next to some dingy old RTS bus.
>>>Oh, and the best view of an Orion is when is standing next to some dingy old RTS bus.<<<
Yeah, and that dingy old bus pulls out of the facility for another day of service as the Orion just sits there, looking pretty, basically all it's good for.
Basman:
I agree with you about Neoplans. They have held up very well under strenuous conditions in Los Angeles, and they have proven themsevles in other cities after a few initial problems in the 80's. I would love to see NYC and WMATA start to buy Neoplans; they are great big city buses which seem to get very little love on the East Coast of late, except SEPTA's 7100's, of course. And yes, I know WMATA had some Neoplans with which they had major corrosion problems, but I think that Neoplan has resolved this by now.
I do not wish to get too far into this hostile argument over the RTS, but I must agree with RTS_2150 that the RTS is an all-around great bus (look at my own handle!) Possibly there are some elements of design which could have been better, but any bus you find on the street today that was made before say 1984 is likely an RTS. Don't forget that GM, TMC, or NovaBUS are often not to blame for mistakes with the RTS. Granted, certain features never change, like the relatively small driver's workstation, but in the case of NJ Transit's 1000-series Novas, I have to agree that it was more NJ Transit's own fault than that of NovaBUS. They wanted these buses so fast, so look what they got! If they had waited another few months, these buses could have been built with much more solid features. Besides, who the hell orders 675 RTS's with not a single Detroit Diesel engine in any one of them?!? And you all have to admit that the RTS is a very attractive bus. For instance, my sister and her spoiled friends would never consider setting foot on public transportation, but one time I was -driving- them to the mall, and an RTS passed us, and they all said "Wow, that's a cool looking bus." I doubt that an Orion or Gillig would have turned their heads.
I will agree that the RTS is not GREAT for heavy urban service, but it is the optimal bus for suburban transit service, like many of WMATA's routes, and also systems like Pace and SMART.
Also, in reference to the Orion V, they have been available since 1989. The first ones in the US are 1989 models in Iowa City; many Canadian cities have 1989 Orion V's.
Neil Greenberg
¡Qué viva el subjuntivo!
All I have to say to you my friend is thank you. You've made an elequent argument.
General asthetics? What general asthetics? The RTS has all the asthetics of an enema bottle. As far as driving 4164 & 4165 believe me you'd rather do time in a Turkish prison then drive those two sh*tboxes. Anyway it's obvious that I can't change your view of the RTS and you can't change mine so why don't we just agree to disagree and move on to other topics.
Agreed.
Saw the New Flyer Low floor CNG's in Brooklyn today. They sound damn good!
Damn straight!
Are the drivers raving about the $.25 increase when they drive one?
No, the 25 cents an hour is an insult and something that our wonderful union is proud of having gotten for us. Shifters working inside the depot make at least 50 cents more an hour. Most drivers feel a dollar more an hour is warranted for the added responsibility of driving an articulated in Manhattan. Maybe if New Directions wins the election this will be addressed and rectified.
For all the money the TA saves with more productivity with one driver operating a longer bus (and hauling more passengers per bus), a $1.00 articulated premium is still as much as a slap in the face to the driver as the measley quarter is. And apologies in advance to those who don't want to hear about subways here, that extra $2.00 and hour for OPTO is equally insulting based on the fact the TA is saving the salary of the conductor and the entire benefits package.
If you work 8 hours a day, 20 days a months, 12 months a year, that 25¢ an hour gets you $480.00 more a year.
Yeah, before taxes and pension deductions.
You only get the 25 cents an hour extra for vehicle time. So if your run is 8 hours and the vehicle time is say 6 hours and 30 minutes you only get the quarter for those 6 hours and 30 minutes. Plus like Bill said once you deduct taxes and everything else it doesn't add up to squat.
It's okay, you could but a Playstaion 2 with the difference.
It's okay, you could buy a Playstaion 2 with the difference.
Oh, the Orions are not an 80's design. Maybe they aren't sleek and so round, but these are buses, not cars, you know. Also, curves aren't everything, ya know. You have to think interior wise, where the RTS pretty much is out of the game. Those long lever lifters are pretty much out of style, and now the red handle pull down thing is great. Plus, the Orion is much brighter, and well, they don't have enverything shake and rattle so much. Also, the cord is much more modern than those foolish push strip thingys. Plus, the destination sign can be placed much closer to the view window, rather than so far set back because of a facade that juts out in front, only to come back in and to have this oversized bumper sticking out. In case you haven't realized this, that sticking out design sorta went out with those old classic cars, and the fishbowls, as well as AM General. Well, you've got to understand, never mess with the power of Orion.
NYCT and LIB Orions use stop strips. I don't like 'em either, I like pulling the cord on the beautiful QS Orion CNG's.
Of course the new LIB Orions aren't as nice in my opinion, they have hard seats and that cheesy aqua interior.
Only the windows on them are cool.
The Orion isn't an 80's design, eh? Didn't you just say in another post that you couldn't tell the difference between an Orion I and an Orion V?! Hello, they made the Orion I in the late eighties, EIGHTIES! The Orion V is the exact same thing with a few new features and all the Orions NYC have look EXACTLY the same except the hybrids! The Orion VII is the first Orion I've heard of that will have a design different from that of the Orion V which is a clone of the Orion I built in the EIGHTIES! Not an eighties design, BS.
As for these being buses and not cars, you're right. But, GM modeled the New Look, the god of buses to you bus purists, after their cars! Oh my god, what did you say wise RTS_2150?! I said that GM modeled the New Look after their cars! Then, defeating your own argument, you go on to mention the similarities between cars and *gasp* buses! But their not the same thing right?! My god man, decide what you want to say!
And as for the power of an Orion, go ask John about that.
And if you're mad after reading this post, go outside and catch one of those slow, yet smooth riding Neoplans. It'll cheer you up sport. HA!
RTS4LIFE
You seem to be one of a kind here.
First of all, I will admit, while the Orion I isn't as boxy as the Orion V, the Orion V has alot more things the RTS doesn't have. An RTS can't have a 10 inch destination sign. They are a pain when a wheelchair wants to get on. As a customer, I don't like them. As a busfan, I don't like them either.
Just wait till next week when BusTalk makes the final decision.
Any fool who couldn't tell an Orion I and an Orion V would be a moron, and I never said that they were the same and that I couldn't tell the difference. That was actually your post that said, "The only difference between them is that they have square headlights" Also, let me tell you something. The Orion I does NOT have the slanted driver side window. The Orion V is much boxier and has a different window arrangement. Basically the only way to tell that the V and I are of the same company is because of the back, of course. Plus, there is the much larger destination sign, that little special place just for the number sign on the side, and (well, at least the 1992 models) that little sliver behind the third big window just before the front door. Come on, what is wrong with your eyes. I wear glasses, and I can still see that they are completely different. The Orion VIs and probably the Orion VII are modeled after the Orion V, they are basically alike except for the fact that they are low floor buses and the V is a high floor bus. Oh, and, I just happen to be taking one those Neoplans that are running pretty well, anyways, so, HA!
GO ORION!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm a huge fan of the Orion I and Orion VI, the Orion V is starting to grow on me. However the Orion I is not begin built anymore, it was a great bus, fast-nice ride.
NABI buses are pretty awesome too. Don't get me wrong the RTS bus is ok, BUT I have some bad news, the NJ Transit's last 650 RTS bus order is DUDS!
NJT is considering suing NovaBUS about it. We Want our Flxibles Back. Because of this suit, it's pretty much possible that NJT will not go to Nova for the Flxible METRO-B Replacements, DO I HEAR ORIONS A-COMIN'?
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Trevor, how can you call the Nova RTS buses duds when you're a huge fan of the biggest duds to ever grace the streets, the Grumman 870? Why don't they just rebuild the Novas like they did the Grummans? I'm sure they're not as bad as the 870s were.
Not to speak for anyone, but I'm pretty sure these Nova's are practically brand new.
The Grumman 870's are not duds! I am going to have to cut in on this one! The NYC Transit Authority ordered our buses with the wrong frame and because of this reason these buses were terrible due to a human misjudgement to save money. The real deal is the Grumman 870 is a success story. Here we are 20 to 21 years later and these buses are still running the streets and the majority of them will be resold. The Nova's that NJ Transit just purchased are garbage! Apperance wise they are very nice compared to NYC Transit, but mechanically they are horrible! To me they are worse than the 870's! NYC Transit till this day hates the fact that they gave up on a bus that needed minor repairs and then to have NJ Transit take up on the offer of good buses and they got their monies worth. They can't say the same for the NovaBus RTS's they currently have.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
I'd be inclined to agree if Grumman hadn't had to set up a giant remanufacturing plant to rebuil thousands of these buses. I like them too, but they were crap, plain and simple. Our Grummans were rehabbed TWO times and they were still shoddy and in their last days you were guaranteed to see one broken down on the side of the road EVERY DAY! Had ot not been for a bus shortage, Metro would've retired them in 1995 instead of late 1997.
I'm glad that your 870s have lieved to a nice old age, but any bus that is extensively rehabbed can live to a decent age. I gaven't seen any tranist company pull the Nova RTS buses out of service, but many did so with the Grumman. The 870 was a shining example of how NOT to build a bus.
OK here's the deal. I'm a NJ Transit employee and can give you the serious low down on your precious NovaBUS RTS-06s.
1) Mechanical Nightmare - Multiplex Shortouts, Destination sign blowouts, Buses dropping to kneel in motion and not going back up (and this is not with a full load).
2) Engine Cradle - Has had reports of total cradle drop outs, This is not because of the Engine itself, so it's not a Cummins deal. It's A Nova Deal!
3) Back Door - Need I Say More!!!!!
4) HVAC - Either too cold or too hot, No matter how much you adjust the thermometer.
Though NJT's 1995-96 NovaBUS RTS-06 Rattle and are noisy, they are far superior to the 1999-2000 in performance, build quality, speed, and responsiveness.
Also like my transit coleague, DaShawn, stated....The reason for the Grumman fiasco was at TA's fault. You don't order a bus to save money, it just won't work. Also too, a Bus is as good as it's maintainer. The NJT Nova's, the 1999-2000 boys, were duds from day one, DAY ONE!!!! While the TA Grummans showed signs of wearing after 3-4 years of service. I will stick by my Flxibles/Grumman Flxibles. The NovaBUS RTS-06 just needs to be let go, 20 years of RTSs, enough is enough already.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com/www.flxible.org
>>>Also too, a Bus is as good as it's maintainer.<<<
Hey, MTA Houston has great maintenence. I don't think a veteran mechanic would like to hear that. Also here's a quote from a Metro official on the Grummans.
"They were dogs."
I know you love the Grummans so it hurts you to hear me trash them this way. I like them too, like you like a girl with a great body and face but a horrid personality. It's a guilty pleasure.
You see Trevor, I was heartbroken when they retired our last 30 or so 870s. They had the best sound I had EVER heard. No bus has topped that. I loved the rattle it had that was so loud you couldn't even carry a conversation. I loved how the panels sagged and would fly open on turns. Oh, and that Grumman lean. It felt like two wheel motion! They were my favorite buses, yes, even over the glorious RTS, which was superior in every way except speed. But Trevor, I had to let go, and you should too. I suppose I should let go too, but they still make RTS buses, they don't make Grumman 870s anymore...ha...ha ha...ha ha ha...hahahahahahahahah! Sorry, about that laugh, I was being a dick.
Big Dick, but see someone like me is preserving what's left of the Flxibles, with one ex-MTA flxible already purchased, I'm saving for a NJT Metro B and will save for the Metro Ds also, I will preserve one of each series.
Veteran Mechanics are not always good mechanics!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com / www.flxible.org
Well, Trevor, I'm just trying to defend the legacy of the RTS whic is being tarnished by hearsay! HEARSAY! But you really own a bus?! It's been my dream! I've always wanted yo roll up to the local high school in an RTS on blades (expensive rims), tinted wondows, and a beautiful paint schme. Alas, it is a dream.
>>>Veteran Mechanics are not always good mechanics!<<<
True, but Metro has good mechanics and they did help save the fleet along with the RTS.
Yes I do own a bus, but I'm considering selling that bus off, SO I can focus on the Metro-B. And the Upgrade plan I have for the Metro-B is something similar to what you want to do also! You Must be a Brotha!
I understand how you feel about the RTS and it's the same with me on the Flxible.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Yep, I am a brotha, so it's hard to explain my love of buses, particularly the RTS, to my peers. They refer to them (the RTS) as the round buses, ghetto buses, those old buses, or those raggedy buses. They have a particular liking for articulated buses and they like anything that looks or smells new. Though one boy said the RTS is his alltime favorite even though he called it the circle bus.
Also, I went to the Kappa earlier this year and I saw one of our old Grummans. It was painted all black and was decked out with speakers I believe. I wanted to go insode so bad, but I didn't have the nerve. Also, at the Kappa I rode some of the shuttles that Galveston provided. They have an all Flxible fleet. I had mistaken them in 1999 for Grumman 870s because they didn't have electronic destination signs and they had the little top exhaust. I was a bit dissapointed to find they were built in 1991, but the dissapointment went away quickly after I rode one. It was a grwat ride and between the time of checking out the ladies and eating I rode around the island five times! There was some um, "stuff" going on on those buses but they were great! When I go next year I'm going to do the same thing.
Good luck on the Metro B. I hope your current Flxible gest a good home if you sale it.
Side Note: Do you notice that Flxibles always look as if they're moping? Maybe I seem more than I should.
now that i think about it, they sorta do look like they are moping. I mean, when I draw them (for a cartoon character, Felix-Bus) it actually sorta looks that way.
Have you seen the Advanced Bus Industries TSV-30. It looks like a "Mini-Me" RTS low floor clone. The RTS look seems to live on.
I've seen that one. It looks much like an LFS with a 90-degree destination sign.
What is a 90 degree destination sign.
I hear you man! Sorry to hear that about your Grumman 870s. New Jersey Transit was such in a hurry for new buses they put the flame under NovaBuses butts to get the new units delivered. The problem then became poorly built units. I hope New Jersey Transit does not try to rush an order again. NJT is now paying the price for being greedy and impatiecent. We will see as time goes on as to what happens in the Garden State with their Novas.
Peace
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Well, I have to admit, I don't particularly like the Novas. I just defend them because they carry the RTS name. They need their old 6v92TA's back and then we'll have the REAL DEAL again.
Can you fit a V8 in there? Cause if you could that would be great!
Only if it sounds like a 6v92. The magic of the old RTS buses is in it's sound. A V8 would not be the same.
Are there any pics of the Orion I?
trevor has a few on his site with the one from Command and ones from the Ride -On system in the MD.suburbs of DC
Thanks
What's wrong with the new Novas?
If anything, the 1996 order is duds, the 99-00 order is tons better!
What have you been smoking? The 1996 RTS is the best of the Nova's. The 98 and 99's are S L O W. The 98's are the worst. I dread having to drive Jamaica depots 9500 series buses. Besides being slower than a three legged turtle, the interlock is hard to work and the gas pedal is stiff which really murders your knee. The 99's are a little better but nothing to write home about. And the velvet seats on the 99's look absolutely disgusting now.
Give me a 1996 RTS any day and I know that bus is sure to get the job done. Fast and easy to operate, for an RTS anyway.
Are you a bus operator JerseyDevil? If not, then take some advice from someone who is. Unless you spend 8 hours or more behind the wheel of any bus, you can not possibly know if that bus is going to be your best friend or your worst enemy.
And RTS2150, I've been reading your comments also. While the RTS is more reliable than the Orion, it is definitely not a pleasure to have to drive all the time. I have driven Orions also and I can tell you they are much easier on the operator than the RTS. The only thing I don't like about the Orion is, it does not have a platform in the operator's compartment. So you feel like you are sitting low down, something that I really don't like too much. But if I was driving cross country, I would take the oldest Orion on the road before I would take the newest RTS.
BIG AL
Here's what I'd take cross country...
1. A Lexus GS400
2. An MCI E or G Series
3. RTS-04 1981-1987
4. TMC RTS 1987-1994
5. New Flyer D40LF
6. Nova RTS
7. Flxible Metro B
8. Orion V
9. Grumman 870
10. Rehabbed RTS 01 or 03
I was talking about NJ Transit's buses, not NYCTA.
I just rode on an NJT '96 RTS coming home from school, #2715. It was noisy, rattly, rough-riding.
I rode on #1398 this morning (a 99 RTS). It was quieter, didn't rattle as much, and rode much smoother.
You know, if a bus that is less than 4 years old would be that bad, you have to wonder about the quality of Novabus's buses, especially the RTS. I mean, there are neoplans going on 16 years old on the SEPTA fleet and, well, most of them run pretty smoothly, although they are pretty slow. That is one of the things I remember about the RTS, how they always shook and rattled.
It's the type of windows and seats that are in them. Flxibles do this as well so don't leave them out.
I've always seen the seats in the highest position possible, except this one guy who had it all the way down, I really doubt he could see out :X
Perhaps because the RTS's NJT has use unreliable Cummins engines???
Why didn't they go with DD Series 50?
>>>I have never seen an RTS with automated annoucements announcing stops. I have never seen an RTS that has a destination sign readible from far away. I've never seen an RTS that can load a wheelchair from the front door anywhere else than Chicago<<<
These things are called accessories my friend. You know, like the CD player you can get in your car. Also, if you want an RTS with a readible sing, go to any city with TMC and Nova RTS buses. Hell, even our Houston buses which are pushing 20 have good signs. Blame Metro for not fixing those signs, not a 21 year old bus.
>>>those RTS-08 buses are UGLY!!!<<<
True.
>>>I'm sorry, but other than the fact RTS meant New York had a very undiverse fleet until the Orions started arriving, the golden age of the RTS is OVER<<<
Um, no, NYC had a relaible and decent fleet of RTS and New Look buses until the Orions arrived. And if the golden age is over, then why does NYC have more RTS buses than any other type of bus in it's fleet COMBINED even if you round up the number of other types of buses? Why are there more RTS buses in serivce than any other type of transit bus in the country? Why will there be 20+ year old RTS buses operating while 10 year old Orions are being shredded? Why will Orions not even make it to 20 years unless extensively rehabbed, why are there so may RTS that have and will without rehabilitaion? Answer me these questions before you say the golden age of the RTS is over.
>>>Our 1979 RTS buses are being scrapped. After all, who needs them? They have impossible to read signs, the seats are in sad shape, the only advantage to them is the fact they are softer than the seats on the Flxible Metro-B and D.<<<
Probably because they weren't rehabbed every other year like the Flxibles are and the Orions will be.
I rest my case and RTS4Life
Well, about the amount of RTSs in the NYC bus fleet, they had kept getting RTSs until maybe 1994, '95, or 96, and then they started getting the Orions. Plus, about the reliabitly and toughness of the RTS, what makes you think Novabus will do such a good job at building those RTSs anyway? I mean, it's a known fact thta GMC made tough buses, but Novabus, well, um, probably not. I'll also have you know that in Virginia they are still running those nicer older Orion Is on the DASH? They are at least 10 years old, you know. Also, those RTSs that aren't really being rehabbed, well, they really start to sag and really look like crap, with uneven pieces and that sagging rear bumper and all of that, plus the door to the engine not entirely closed. I mean, you don't see that on my Orions, the Is or the Vs. Also, I think that Metrobus just chooses to rehabilitate their buses, rather than have it mandatory. Don't you know how much they had to do with the RTSs? You know, adding the airconditioning unit because of that air conditioning problem, replacing the back doors since they opened somehow and a girl fell out of them. Once again, I must say, that has never happened with Orions.
What do you have to say about that?
>>>Plus, about the reliabitly and toughness of the RTS, what makes you think Novabus will do such a good job at building those RTSs anyway?<<<
The NovaBus desing has been pretty satisfactory so far. I've only heard the people on here compplain about the series 50 engine they're equipped with not the overall design. As for the Orion, it's been pretty much everything.
>>>They are at least 10 years old, you know.<<<
Wow, 10, oh my. That sure beats unrehabbed 19 year old RTS #1903. Those Orions MUST be damn good to have been in serive 10 years even though the government minimum limit for retiring is 12.
>>>. Also, those RTSs that aren't really being rehabbed, well, they really start to sag and really look like crap, with uneven pieces and that sagging rear bumper and all of that, plus the door to the engine not entirely closed. I mean, you don't see that on my Orions, the Is or the Vs.<<<
I thought looks weren't everything. Wasn't that part of your argument on the Orions? We don't have sagging bumpers here in Houston, well 2016 did, but she's gone. Also, I've never seen any on the NYC RTS buses either. I do see alot of flying panels and engine doors ajar. But, you have to remember that the only reason you don't see that on an Orion is because they don't have the RTS type panels or the same type of engine door. And Orions look like crap anyway so don't go there.
>>>Also, I think that Metrobus just chooses to rehabilitate their buses, rather than have it mandatory.<<<
Why would they CHOOSE to just waste money rehabbing buses that don't even need it? Some aren't even 10 years old yet. That's like buying a car and sennding it to be totally rebuilt less than a year later when it's still in perfect operating condition. And really, does WMATA have the money to be doing this? We're talking about the same WMATA that couldn't finish paying for an order of the Orions.
>>>Don't you know how much they had to do with the RTSs? You know, adding the airconditioning unit because of that air conditioning problem, replacing the back doors since they opened somehow and a girl fell out of them.<<<
These were RTS-II-03's my friend. They were full of problems. The RTS-04 was the real workhouse and the RTS tradition is built around them. Now, didn't the WMATA RTS buses with all their problems last 21 years? I bet most Orions, which this never occured on, will be scrapped long before they reach their 16th year.
>>>What do you have to say about that?<<<
Alot obvioulsy. I don't think you really know who you're dealing with here....
RTS4Life
Think about this. You say there are more RTS than any other bus in the NYC Fleet. Maybe because there were so many of them, its gonna take awhile to replace them.
I'll bring this up on the poll a week from tomorrow. The question for tomorrow is already decided, I'm afraid. Then, BusTalk can decide which buses are better.
Hey, SEPTA used to have RTS buses, we just decided that it was time for a change to get better buses, so, we got that NABIS. Also, SEPTA NEVER went for those dumb Orions and Gilligs. We always stuck with the Neoplans and other better buses, like the NABIs and then we are getting the supposedly good New Flyers and then EL Dorados. The Neoplans aren't ugly boxy bus thingys like the more "popular" buses. Plus, the NABIs may not be like those bad things that you may have in Houston. Maybe Houston doesn't know how to make a good bus better. About the RTSs, I would like them more if Novabus did something decent with the design. I liked the GMC design much better than the "modern" design. However, Novabus could stand to do something interesting with the RTS, other than take out that last rear window, and they should try to maybe make the front door bigger and the rear door smaller? i don't know. Although, I am jsut curious about your NABIs. SEPTA's NABIs are pretty comfortable, and so are Miami-Dade's. What are Houston's NABIs like? What features do they have, and are there any pictures of them? Also, SEPTA's buses aren't boxy, except for the NABIs, but you have to admit that there arent' really any non-boxy buses out on the market these days.
>>>Maybe Houston doesn't know how to make a good bus better.<<<
We've rebuilt Grummans, RTS-II-01s and 03s, and we rebuilt the shoddy 24/25xx series when they first arrived in 1989 and 1990. We not only know how to make a good bus better, more importantly, we know how to make a bad bus great.
>>>I liked the GMC design much better than the "modern" design.<<<
They're exactly the same sans the lack of rear window.
>>>However, Novabus could stand to do something interesting with the RTS, other than take out that last rear window, and they should try to maybe make the front door bigger and the rear door smaller?<<<
Who needs bigger doors? Wheelchairs can go up the back as they always have. The RTS would look hideous with those "improvements."
As for the NABIs none of them are any good except the dual fuel fleet (2586-2645) which they don't run many of. The rest are horrible and look worse than some of the RTS without working nearly as hard or being nearly as old.
Why are the series 50's so bad. They are pretty fast. But they do idle rough, and they are noisier than the 6V-92.
Risking placing myslf in the minority(again!), I love the sound of the Series 50 engine. It is unique and distinctive. It's overall sound recalls the diesel engines used on the great Mack buses of the late 1940s and 1950s.
Personally, I believe it enhances the overall performance of the RTS unlike anything currently on the market.
This is not meant to demean the 6V92TA or those of us who like it. But I think it's nice and refreshing to hear different sounding engines on transit buses for the first time in many years.
I do like the sound of the Series 50, and I have to admit I prefer it over the 6V-92. But the 6V-92 sounds good in RTS's (not in Orions) for some reason.
The Series 50 RTS's are much faster than their 6V-92 counterparts tho. I remember riding the Q58, and the 6V-92 RTS's had alot of trouble getting up to speed on that short stretch of expressway. The Series 50 ones did much better.
Does the Series 50 even sound remotely like the 6v92TA? I once saw a TMC in Disney World with top exhaust and it sounded like a mix of a truck engine and a regular 6v92.
I was never a huge fan of Orions, but they grew on me over the years. Part of it is the NYCTA bus fleet was in danger of becoming a 100% RTS. Then when the 1993 Orion V's arrived (again - I wasn't wild about them), but I was so happy to see something else in the fleet that I liked them right away. I realize the RTS has been a workhorse, but I was never fond of them. For years I was envious of agencies like NJ Transit with all of their Flxible Metros and Grumman 870's, WMATA and especially Baltimore MTA. Once I moved to the DC area it was great to be around a diverse fleet the included a large number of Flxible Metros and a relatively small group of RTS. The RTS have pretty much disappeared from WMATA's fleet and I won't miss them too much. The Orions seem to be making a presence all over and I'm glad the RTS era seems to be going away.
Wayne
When I was younger and rode Ride-On extensively, I basically rode the TMCs, the old 30ft Gilligs, and the old Orion Is in Rockville (on the 46). The Orions, in my opinion, have always been unique somewhat, and I always thought that was pretty cool. Of course, back then I didn't really know what buses were which. The only way I could tell that the Orion Is and Orion Vs were from the same company was the back of the bus, which was always pretty interesting (at least, the air conditioning unit was). Also, about the RTSs, if you ever rode the K6, there would probably be a huge chance that you would have ridden an RTS. That is how I rode Metro's RTSs, and they weren't amazingly fantastic as RTS_2150 (or whatever the name was) claims they are. I remember once (I'm not entirely sure if this was the K6 though) riding a MAN articulated on the K6. Personally, I thought the Orion Is were great (at least, the later versions) and just loved the sound of the engine. However, nowadays, the Orion IIs, Orion Vs, and Orion VIs aren't really that amazingly good. Oh, and if you want to see a bus fleet different from the "common" ones, come to Philadelphia to see SEPTA's. There arent' any buses from any of the "popular" companies, except for maybe the NABIs. Oh, and NABIs and Orions (at least the Orion I) are great and rule.
>>>That is how I rode Metro's RTSs, and they weren't amazingly fantastic as RTS_2150 (or whatever the name was) claims they are.<<<
I nearly lost my temper when I read that post! Don't you read my posts!? I already explained that the RTS buses that Metro had were the RTS-03s. They were not a very good bus. They had numerous problems. The RTS-04's and up are the good buses. Damn! Reading is fundamental.
The RTS-03 were good buses -look at DC and GBL here in NYC.Those RTS-03 last over 20yrs while the RTS-04's lasted only 15 and theones that are still running had to be remanufactured to keep them running
RTS_2150 (and other BusTalkers), as you could probably tell I'm not big on the RTS either - and I am a big fan of the Grumman 870 and Flxible Metro. I do agree with you that the RTS II-04 series were good buses. I didn't like NYCTA's 1981 buses because most of them (and all of the 1983 buses) had the dreadful DD 6V-71N engine. The others were pretty good buses and I even liked the 06 series. I'm not a B/O nor mechanic so I really can't speak on the from the an operating and mechanical standpoint, but I think my biggest problem with RTS is that... (1) Right from the beginning with the 01 series they were never my favorite, in fact they only grew on me when the 1982 04's were delivered. (2) The TA ridiculous accusation that the Grumman 870 fiasco was all Grumman's fault when their maintenance practices at the time were at best questionable. and (3) finally... until the 1993 Orion's arrived the NYCTA was very close to being a 100% RTS fleet.
When you mentioned the sound of the 870's - you really bought back some good memories. Living in The Bronx I only got to hear the TA/OA version with their 6V-71N engines most of the time, but when I went to Queens it was lots of fun riding those privates with their 8V-71N's. It was also the first bus I ever drove.
Wayne
Wayne
I never really ever rode a grumman 870 before, so I can't really comment on that alone. I only got to ride Flxible Metros on the WMATA bus fleet, although I haven't ridden one in so many years. Also, it was an interesting discussion about the pros and cons of RTSs and Orions, two of the most popular (at least, the Orion is, I'm not so sure about RTSs) buses in the transit industry. Although I still think Neoplans and the Orion Is buses are the best ever made, I got to learn a lot about the opinions of other people on these buses, which is cool. However, don't diss SEPTA. They are better than ever, and are getting even better each day.
Can you possibly help us to understand SEPTA's attitude toward the trolley car? Do they or do they not want to continue, expand, and/or restore their existing street rail operation in Philadelphia?
Well, let's see. They are planning to restore trolley service on the 15, which was kept up to light rail standards. Besides that, they aren't really planning much with street rail service other than the ones that they already have. Plus, you have to understand, as with other people, that trolley service isn't always the best method of transportation in a city, especially when you have to deal with cars that are double-parked and stuff like that. I know one thing for sure, though, and that it that the Subway-Surface lines will be around forever, since they don't have to deal with any Center City traffic at all, and are highly utilized.
The Fairfax Connector RTS's seem pretty fast. They haul pretty good along the Dulles Toll Road. I think the problem with WMATA's purchase of the RTS's in 1979 is, just like with the AM Generals, they jumped on the bandwagon early and took buses that had no proven track record. Maybe if they had waited until the middle 80's, they would have had better luck. For that particular 115 bus order at that time, they may have been better off ordering Grumman 870's.
On a side note, a WMATA Orion V was shot at on the C29 on Saturday night in Largo, MD. Luckily, nobody was hurt. I heard two stories about where it was hit, either on the windshield, or the destination sign. I think it was bus 4285, but it was hard to make out in the picture they had.
>>>RTSs and Orions, two of the most popular (at least, the Orion is, I'm not so sure about RTSs) buses in the transit industry.<<<
Okay, I'm not going to get mad. But you must understand that until the mid 90's the RTS was the MOST popular bus in the transit industry. It was a proven workhorse that could put up with almost anything. For nearly every major system that is worth it's salt to have some says alot about the popularity of that bus. The Orion has been out for about 12 years or so and despite their design changes and added features thay still haven't sold as many as the RTS did in that same time span. The Orion is one of the most popular buses in the tranist industry now, I will concede, but the RTS is a status symbol. If a major fleet doesn't have an RTS, or Flxible for that matter, is it really worth riding? I'm sure many bus fans across the country feel that way. I also feel the Orion will NEVER, EVER pass the RTS in terms of overall popularity. The RTS never had to change its basic design since 1979 when the slope was eliminated in the rear which probably would have still been on the RTS had it not interfered with the A/C and they still sell pretty well. So to say the RTS is not one of the most popular buses ever built is like saying Micheal Jordon probably isn't/wasn't as popular as Kobe Bryant.
Regardless of which is better, is the Orion infiltration in NYC due to the fact that since Orion is built in NY, there could have been some special purchase deal so that the largest city of the state whould have something that was built in NY? I'm sure the Senator and Governor must have been getting some kind of complaint from Bus Industries of America.
Also, since the drivers are the most important part of the transit system, does the Union help out if there are complaints about buses?
For crying out loud, I meant that they aren't popular today. Geez, you are so touchy. Back a decade, they were everywhere, in Baltimore (although they were really bad), CAT in Harrisburg, SEPTA in Philadelphia, and even the CAT in Clemson has a few (and I do mean a few, like 2 or 3), as well as DC and other places. Today, they aren't really popular as more transit companies decide to broaden their horizons and go to New Flyer, NABI, and Orion, as well as others.
>>>For crying out loud, I meant that they aren't popular today.<<<
For crying out loud, I mean that you're wrong anyway! In about the last year and a half alone I'd say over 2500 Nova RTS buses have been delivered to various transit companies around the country. That estimate is probably WAY below the actual figure but that's right up there with you Orions and NABIs. So get it right, sport.
RTS4Life
I will respond to Basman's post item by item:
I used to ride 870's now and then, but back then, I could not tell the difference between an 870 and a Metro, they were all "Flexibles" to me.
Whether they like RTS's or not, every person who knows anything about buses MUST admit that the RTS was and is far more popular than the Orion. Virtually every prominent transit system in the US either has had, does have, or will have (more) RTS's. Also, this message board tends to focus almost exclusively on East Coast transit properties, and right now, two large systems in that area (NYCT and WMATA) are buying a lot of Orions, but that is not the case in most of the rest of the country. Sure, these are nice customers to the bus industry, but the orders of these two transit systems alone is hardly enough to characterize the ordering habits of every other system in the country. For instance, you guys here seldom talk about Gilligs, simply because no East Coast transit system has large fleets of them (wisely). However, Gillig sales in California, Minnesota, and other states is doing quite well.
I and probably a few others will drink to Basman's liking of Neoplans. I think these are great buses. It is said that today's buses are nothing more than boxes on wheels. Neoplan Transliners are no exception for the most part, but they somehow have more character than either Orions or Gilligs. Plus, they have a lot of options with HVAC placement, door configurations, widths, and other things.
I think that your voice is lonely in saying that the Orion I is a great bus; at least I for one disagree. It looks like Orion designed a bus in 1946, and then didn't build any until the 80's. I suppose they are decent for mid-size transit systems, especially the 30- and 35-foot models, but where have any of you seen an Orion I in true heavy urban service? OK, OK. Buffalo and Indianapolis and Pace have some, but those systems stopped buying Orion I's even when they were still available. I am fairly indifferent to the Orion V, but I must say that the Orion V is a vast improvement over the Orion I. The a/c unit looks really awkward on the back of an Orion I, and the early models (TMC City Cruiser T-30's and some Canadian Orion I's) with the single front door looks like hell.
I concur wholeheartedly about SEPTA. It's a great system and you can feel that it's really improving. They must really be serious about change.
I like every type of bus on the market*, so I am not too involved with this RTS argument.
* EXCEPT the Gillig Advantage low floor. Those things are pieces of crap and they're supremely ugly, too. I'm also not wild about the Orion VI, but I'm not complaining too much about that one because it won't be around much longer. I'm not holding my breath for the Orion VII, though.
Neil Greenberg
You know, I have my reasons for saying they are great, and I'm not exactly talking about those 80's bus models of the Orion I. I'm talking about the ones of the 1990's, (not the 1992 model, that destination sign was really odd), and particularly Ride-On's. That was the only bus where I actually got to sit in the driver's seat of, and it seemed pretty comfortable and also the engine really had a cool sound, and it wasn't that boxy or whatever. Also, I only like the look of the 30ft buses and MAYBE the 35ft version. They look nice and dainty and, well I don't know, quaint. They aren't boxy and ugly like almost every other bus out there, other than the Flxibles, RTSs, and Neoplans. In addition to that, I never really thought that the AC unit looked that bad on the Orion I. Also, the Orion VI is the ugliest low floor bus I have ever seen, and I think that the Gillig Advantage low floor bus is actually the best looking (just in looks, mind you) low floor bus there is, other than maybe the Novabus LFS. The Advantage is the only one where all the windows are one size and on one level, although I'm sure that must not be great for the people riding inside.
>>>Also, the Orion VI is the ugliest low floor bus I have ever seen, and I think that the Gillig Advantage low floor bus is actually the best looking (just in looks, mind you) low floor bus there is, other than maybe the Novabus LFS.<<<
Hvae you ssen those Orion Hybrids, they're low floor I believe. I thought those buses were beautiful, especially in the NYC scheme. There was a picture I used to see of one on the M103 and I was ready to pledge my allegiance to Orion until I made a dreadful discovery that the other 300+ 6000 series Orions were like their ugly, non-hybrid counterparts. The Hybrid reminds me of how a Flxible would've looked dropped some inches.
The D40LF actually is quite attractive too and I love the sound and the smooth, speedy ride. But that's just me.
I wouldn't really put Neoplan as one of those "unpopular" companies. Considering that Westchester County is about to get 60-70 Neo artics, the NYC area will find out what good buses these are.
As for the bulk of SEPTA's fleet being Neoplans, it was noted that at one time, SEPTA was actually Neoplan's largest customer. The original batch of Neos were part of a statewide order coordinated by PennDOT. A majority of the other transit systems in Pennsylvania (notably - Reading, Allentown, Lancaster, Stroudsburg/Monroe County, Erie, Altoona, Hazleton, Wilkes-Barre, Williamsport, New Castle, State College, Pittsburgh, among others) received Neoplans as part of the PennDOT order.
After the initial PennDOT order, SEPTA continued to purchase Neos up until 1989, which essentially ended the dominance of the GM/Flxible fishbowls in Philly.
Even during that time frame, Neoplan buses could be seen in Orlando, Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, and the San Francisco/Oakland Bay Area (AC Transit/Samtrans).
In addition to Westchester County, Pittsburgh, LA, San Francisco, and Houston have all purchased new Neoplan buses.
Anyway, in recent years, Reading, York, Altoona, Erie, and Allentown recieved various vintages of Orion I buses (different powertrains, different years); Reading, Pittsburgh, State Collge and Reading also purchased Orion V buses, though the State College and Reading Orions are CNG.
The next major bus purchase by the PennDOT systems (I don't know if they were placed in a bulk order as the Neos were) were the TMC RTS-4 (Lancaster, Harrisburg, Williamsport, Erie, Reading), Gillig Phantoms (Harrisburg, Wilkes-Barre, Stroudsburg), or New Flyer D40LF (New Castle, Reading (CNG), State College (CNG), York (CNG), Erie, and Allentown). SEPTA will also be getting 200 D40LF buses starting shortly; SEPTA has also placed an order for 20-30 DE40LF buses, with the order set to start arriving by 2002. Lancaster will also be getting 16 diesel-electric hybrids, though I don't think they piggy backed their order with SEPTA (I thought they should have).
In addition, CamTran (Cambria County Transit) in Johnstown and Altoona recently combined to purchase Gillig low floor buses.
Getting back to SEPTA for a minute, the NABI fleet is the most universally hated buses at SEPTA. A lot of the drivers would rather run a Neo 40 ft bus than a NABI. The NABIs were problem plagued for the first year or so after delivery - even more so than a typical new bus purchase. These buses replaced some of the 1982 Neos and all of the RTS-2 buses.
I wonder what was so bad about them? At first, i never really liked them because of the metallic interior, but then I realized that had been one of SEPTA's options, since I also saw the steel seats on the new Neoplans, so I grew to liking them a bit. Another thing I never really did like is that most of the NABIs I have seen have messed up destination signs that are only half lit (as in, one half was lit). Speaking of the destination signs, I love teh little icons that it could make, although the drivers don't use them anymore. Anyway, I think the NABI buses look great, and have the perfect amount of space about the standee windows for the stripe, which is the perfect size. However, I wonder what was so bad with them, and why aren't they really used on some other suburban routes, like the 105?
When the TA tested the Neoplan out of QV in the Mid 80's ,I thought it was a great bus that would have been the perfect replacement for the then recently departed Grumman 870's.As for the steel seats on the Septa Neoplans and NABI's,the TA used the same seating on its Blitz remanufacted GM fishbowls (mainly the suburbans that were redesignated for local service).
Sure, if you consider the NABIs a good bus, which many drivers - city and suburban - don't.
We are, however, supposed to get 200 low floor buses starting early next year. They will be mainly used in the city, but hopefully, a few will head out to the suburbs.
Hi, there. I heard that eff. 1/14/01, the B-39 loses one run, translating to 15 min. hdwy in AM rush (from 12), and 30 min after 9 PM. How do the customers protest this, in the age of increasing ridership?
I would assume that TA data and farebox revenue/transfers suggests that the B39 is not experiencing ridership increases, but ridership decreases. Maybe free transfers between buses & trains has decreased the ridership on the B39 since the B39 counts as a transfer even though it is such a short ride.
As many of you know, the B-39 is the Middle leg of a three leg trip. Thus, no transfer is deducted for using this line. This fact should be better publicized among the customers.
Just take the train. It's far more reliable.Also, maybe those of us in the Dept.of Subways will benefit through more jobs on the J and M next pick!
[How do customers protest this, in the age of increasing ridership?]
The system-wide ridership increases are NOT distributed uniformly. Some routes went up a lot, others went up a little, and some (e.g. M104, Bx55) actually went DOWN because people took the train instead (or a different bus to the train).
After observing a few of the NYCTA bus rosters, I have 2 Qs. First is, How come on some bus orders, the second bus in order gets delivered first, and the year before?
Ex) 1998 RTS: 4901, 1999 RTS: 4900, 4902-5249
Ex) 1996 Artic: 1001, 1997 Artic: 1000, 1002-1069
Ex) 1998 Orion: 6000, 1999 Orion: 6001-6349
This is something I find interesting that I don't understand.
I've had the same question, although with the 3rd order you showed, that isn't a question.
I've been working 21 years for the TA and I'm still trying to figure them out!
Don't ask me that question either. I only work for them.
BIG AL
Do u know why??? Because when they first order a new buses like RTS #4900, Artics #1001, Orion #6000 & Low Floor #801 went on the road for testing & it took about less a year before they order more buses. I remember seeing New Flyer Artics #1001 first went on the road on Bx12 back in 1996 & the rest deliver following year. It like R142 when they first putting in service back in July, 2000. MTA want to make sure everything work out.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
www.geocities.com/justin2669/NYCTransiTrans.html
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/20000717/press020678.html
Tomorrow, i will be attepting a LI BUS trip using these routes:
N20-Flushing to Hicksville
N49-Hicksville to Hempstead
N91-Hempstead to JFK
Q35-Rockaway to Kings Plaza
B3-Kings Plaza home
Here's hoping LI Bus, Green and TA are running well, cause imn bring a schedule check to see if these trips run on time. I'll post my findings tomorrow on Bus Talk.
And youre getting from JFK to Rockaway how????
There is only one way to get from JFK to the Rockaways;the PA's Airport shuttle w/the 91 New Flyer D40LF's to the Howard Bch Sta.
I wish you the best of luck. Be prepared for delays and breakdowns. Hopefully you will get the new Orion CNG (W/series 50) buses, they are the only ones that run decently. Brace yourself if it's a Cummins.
hi- is there anyone out there,active or retired,that can help me locate a mabstoa uniform button? there were 2 sizes. large for dispatcher's coat and small for operator's jacket. it had MABSTOA on it. all capital letters. they were replaced by the OA buttons, and then came the M buttons. i have a button collection and need this . any help would be appreciated. money even!!
I can't help you out, but you might want to check out some auction sites such as eBay or Yahoo Auctions.
According to the business section of Newsday a man was granted a patent for a buzzer to be attached to the sides of buses to warn pedestrians that the bus is about to make a wide turn.
Similar to back-up warning buzzers this one would be activated by the driver in the hopes that pedestrians will not walk into the side of the bus or have their toe-nails clipped by the rear tires of a bus.
It was only two or three paragraphs and apparently no prototypes have yet to be tested. Sounds like a great idea to insulate people from their own stupidity.
I seem to remember Flxible's in the late 70's (last of the new looks)having a right side directional beeper. It worked with the kneeler and the right directional.
Nothing can insulate people from being stupid idiots. I've seen buses failing to make a turn so they needed to back up and that loud backup beeper did nothing to stop people from walking behind the bus when it was attempting to back up. Even a driver from the following bus who was out helping the movement by attempting to keep people clear of the bus for ten seconds did no good as people just ignored him, ignored the beeper, ignored the movement of the bus going backwards.
RDChilds
So when will federal legislation make these wide-turn buzzers mandatory on buses? This sounds like a good idea, but it's a shame that we have to protect people from their own stupidity. Common sense will tell you that if one sees a bus turning, backing up, or starting to accelerate, then one should stay clear from the bus.
San Francisco Muni had right-side beepers that worked in conjuction with the turn signals waaaay back in 1969 on their GM T8H5305's. It was similar in tone to many backup beepers that come on buses nowadays.
Hmm, how could this kind of thing get a patent?
Arti
What's to patent?
And if the TA installs these, just get ready for the lawsuit when a driver forgets to activate the buzzer or it simply stops working. (Just look at the response to the recent tragedy on the Q train in Brooklyn.)
In Delaware, the audible right turn signals are automatically activated. Suffice to say, Rodney Square in Wilmington often sounds like an alarm clock factory during the rush hours.
That doesn't seem so new, but perhaps in NYC it is.
The Flxible Metro and Gillig bus fleets at DART First State (Wilmington, Delaware) have had audible signals when the buses make right hand turns for a long time now. And the Flxs date back to 1988-90, and, FWIW, still run pretty good for the most part.
Speaking of Delaware, they recently placed an order for about 50 new standard- and low-floor buses from NABI. Insert your own joke here.
San Francisio had them on their fishbowls back in the 60's
Thanks for jogging my memory...
I recall on SEPTA's RTS fleet, there wasn't a buzzer per se, but a noticable clicking sound (similar to the noise a turn signal makes in a regular car) when the turn signals were activated.
What is your favorite line? Mine is the Q53.
The Q76
Can I list more than one?
M4, M5, M79, M104.
(I guess I can.)
Also the old M103 (preferably on a Flxible New Look), especially the part incorporated into the current M57 (but it's just not as much fun on the M57).
I like the Q53,QM1A, any X run to S.I.
But my all time favorite is the Q10. You get a nice beat-up RTS(or a classic if you're very lucky) and you get to ride it to JFK.
Gotta love a bus that gets you out of this hellhole called New York.
Honorable mention--London's red single decker buses(especially the 328 Golders Green-Chelsea via Kensington). How can you not love a bus that accelerates like a car? Like paying a dollar(or a pound) for a roller coaster ride on tires! Wheeeeeeeeeee!
The Bx3, any JAM route along Merrick Blvd, BxM4C & BxM7.
Wayne
Mine's is the B61
I have a few:
Q11 Green Lines
Q66 Queens Surface
Q53 Triboro Coach
Q26 Casey Stengel
Q17 Jamaica
A split between the Q46 and Q88 for QV
Q11#5514Gary
Q66#384Gary
Q53#3032Gary
Q26#136Gary
Q17#5159Gary
Q46#8357Gary
Q88#8391Gary
What about favorite buses? Here are a few of mine
q44..u get the zoo, the bridge, and a lot of ground covered..gotta love it...
I forgot another 1 for QS: QBX1- can be a very speedy ride on the Whitestone to and fro the Bronx and Queens.
QBX1#456Gary
M98 & Q44
There is one more line I can think of the ;the BeeLine W1w(W242nd ST-White Plains via US 9)Nice view of the Palisades while traveling in a Flexible Metro B(which almost exclusively on this route)
Q58,B6,B82.
I have a few:
X27 - heading along Shore Rd, you get a pretty nice view of Staten Island, especially at sunset. Plus, I'm pretty partial to trips which have long non-stop expressway runs.
X17/X31 between SI and Midtown via New Jersey. How strange it must be to ride a NYCT bus while along a long line of NJT buses.
X25 - A hidden gem if you're downtown and trying to head to Midtown.
TA Non-express routes:
Q44, M10/20
Non TA routes:
CT Transit I-Bus (Stamford/White Plains), NJT 87 (Hoboken/Journal Square), NJT 600 (Plainsboro/Quaker Bridge/Trenton)
for me b46(grew up on it)b35,b103,44,49 at nights when the bus stops less, 60,41 and 15 to jfk
i used to like the 5 but that is no longer with us anymore.
In response to John's query yesterday before the Subtalk trip, there still is at least one Orion operating out of Gleason. We saw 317 while waiting for the B68 at Coney & J.
I don't know if Gleason is completely New Flyer yet, because back on July 30, I saw a Flyer, Orion and Nova all on the B9. Gleason probably was the only Brooklyn depot to use Orions.
I bet drivers kill each other not to have to drive the B6, 9, 11, 16 or 68 on Sundays. The double and triple-parking on 13th Avenue, Coney, J and M, all in Shomer Shabbat neighborhoods, is absolutely ridiculous. Looking south down Coney, it appeared to be solid gridlock.
People haven't yet learned to keep off the stairs while the Flyer is in motion.
Gleason still have there Orions. The Orions that Gleason have are CNG's and since Gleason is the only depot with CNG's fueling stations in the system. And driving them though the parts of Brooklyn you list is just as easy as driving any other type of buses though them. If you get stuck with an RTS's or a New Flyer's you are stuck thats that. There back end is the only thing different about the New Flyers and Orions becouse they are longer then an RTS so you just have to watch how big of an aganle when you pull around anything or out from a stop becouse if there is something right at the back end of the bus and you cut out to fast you might hit them with it.
hope this helps
Robert
Actually, I was mentioning parts of Brooklyn with narrow streets and heavy double-parking/shopping volume on given days- the kind of street no driver in his right mind would want to drive ANY model of bus on.
Once I was eavesdropping on a few dispatcher and between-run drivers at Kings Plaza, and it seemed that all the drivers were trying to palm off Sunday B9s (Avenue M), B11s (Avenue J, 49th/50 Streets) and B44s (Lee Avenue) on younger drivers.
I'm sure the M27 and 50 drivers (49th-50th Crosstown) aren't very happy having to pass Rockefeller Center these days.
I know what you ment. As I sayed if I can't move the bus I would just seat there untill I can. I alway say that I get Payed by the min.
Robert
How did 317 sound? Must've sounded like crap with that horrible Cummins L10G engine.
The ones at LI Bus are so bad they are causing buses to fall behind their schedule.
I drove 317 about 3 month ago. She ran great. Fast pickup good brakes. Deperment of Bus keeps there buses in good running order most of the time. So don't blame the buses, blame the upkeep of the for beening slow.
Robert
Well I guess due to budget problems the LI Buses aren't being maintained right. I still don't like the way Cummins engines sound tho, I like DD and John Deer better (one day I'll get to ride the Deer Orion at QSC!).
The Maint.dept at LIB is pretty bad. Alot of the buses (mainly Cummins) have holes in them. Saw 164 on the N27 with a 1 foot hole near the front door.
Yeah I guess you're right. I've heard (and seen) that the new LI Bus Orions have also been breaking down. I guess the LI Buses are suffering because of the county budget crisis.
I just feel like I wanna play Robin Hood and steal money from the rich in East Hills and Garden City so the buses can be fixed.
I think if things continue to go this way service will decline so much, that service may have to be cut anyway because they won't have enough buses that RUN!
Did you ever drive Bus # 950 at Gleason Depot?
saw #585 and #598 running on the B9 and B68,respectivaely the last 2 days, so i guess JG is still running orion V buses
Why wouldn't they? The JG roster hasn't changed in a while. They haven't gotten rid of the Orions and I don't know of any plans in the future to.
Gents,Ladies,
following a recent trip to the NYC(Manhattan) area I noticed that Westside depot has been renamed 'Michael J Quill' Depot, an event I believe which took place during July of this year.
Could any Bustalk regular contributors please provide a brief explanation on who Mr Quill was within the transit community and his
association with the Westside depot?
Thanks in advance for any reply
Regards & Happy Holidays
Rob
London UK
Michael J. Quill was a world famous labor leader who led his union, TWU Local 100, in a strike in 1966. He actually defied a judge's order to return to work. He was imprisoned and died of a heart attack a short time later. The naming of the Westside Depot was a posthumous tribute to Mr. Quill.
A Dept.of Subway facility should've been named after him instead of a bus facility!
Michael J.Quill was Mayor "Linseed's" 1st worst nightmare(that and the blizzard of 69 for us in Queens)
Well I didn't feel like going out today, knowing how annoying LI Buses have been lately. I was headed to Roslyn Library (in the park) and my N21 was right on time. Of course it was one of the new Orions (317), and ran pretty good.
Going back from the Library I was to make the 4:22pm N20 eastbound to Greenvale where I'd get chinese food at Szechuan Express (very good and cheap).
The N20 to Roslyn arrived at 4:15pm, just a few minutes late. It was a diesel Orion. Of course Roslyn was his last stop, since he had to do another run back to Flushing. Also saw an nearly empty N28 going by, the short bus route had a new Orion #288.
Well our N20 didn't arrive till 4:40pm (ironically when the next one should arrive). A few people were upset about standing in the cold saying "where's the bus". I said it's probably one of the slow older CNG buses. And I was right! There it was bus, 287. So I said to them again as we got on, see it's one of those crappy Cummins buses. The driver heard and muttered "damn right!".
And it crawled to Greenvale, almost stalling on the uphill. Fortunately I made to Greenvale without stalling.
Going home I was going to catch the 5:28pm N27 back to Glen Cove. It was 10 minutes late, and guess what, another Cummins. This one was 164
and was loud as hell, and could barely keep speed even on level ground.
They gotta get rid of the Cummins engines. Some of the Gilligs were faster than them (a diesel Orion sure is!).
It's causing buses to run late they are so slow.
When your bus is running late in Nassau county, 8 times out of 10 it's a Cummins.
Well I didn't feel like going out today, knowing how annoying LI Buses have been lately. I was headed to Roslyn Library (in the park) and my N21 was right on time. Of course it was one of the new Orions (317), and ran pretty good.
Going back from the Library I was to make the 4:22pm N20 eastbound to Greenvale where I'd get chinese food at Szechuan Express (very good and cheap).
The N20 to Roslyn arrived at 4:15pm, just a few minutes late. It was a diesel Orion. Of course Roslyn was his last stop, since he had to do another run back to Flushing. Also saw an nearly empty N28 going by, the short bus route had a new Orion #288.
Well our N20 didn't arrive till 4:40pm (ironically when the next one should arrive). A few people were upset about standing in the cold saying "where's the bus". I said it's probably one of the slow older CNG buses. And I was right! There it was bus, 287. So I said to them again as we got on, see it's one of those crappy Cummins buses. The driver heard and muttered "damn right!".
And it crawled to Greenvale, almost stalling on the uphill. Fortunately I made to Greenvale without stalling.
Going home I was going to catch the 5:28pm N27 back to Glen Cove. It was 10 minutes late, and guess what, another Cummins. This one was 164
and was loud as hell, and could barely keep speed even on level ground.
They gotta get rid of the Cummins engines. Some of the Gilligs were faster than them (a diesel Orion sure is!).
It's causing buses to run late they are so slow.
When your bus is running late in Nassau county, 8 times out of 10 it's a Cummins.
All Cummins engines should be junked!!! THEY SUCK!
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/railsandtrains
Saw HAPPY HOLIDAYS on an OOS LI Bus today (Cummins Orion CNG) on Glen Cove road. So does NYCT have holiday signs? I think QSC does.
Well, happy holidays to everyone here. On SEPTA's bus fleet, all the buses go around saying happy holidays to their riders. On the NABIs, the destination sign (the front one) has candy canes and Christmas trees around the message. I wonder why the drivers don't really use the icons (like, the bus for the "Take Next Bus" message) anymore. Also, what happened to those SEPTA logos the NABIs used to have. That was amazingly cool!
Back in the 80's the RTS's used to say "HAPPY HOLIDAYS" on it's destination sign on every major holiday! I know that QSC has "SEASONS GREETINGS" on it's MCI Classics where the destination sign would normally be.
B61 Leonard
IDK if it still says that but I remember the TMC's there saying Seasons Greetings, but some of them went on saying that into June and July. At that time, Santa is slirping on a soda while getting a tan in the hot summer sun ;)
Sorry, I did mean TMC's. However, it said "HAPPY HOLIDAY" for Memorial Day and 4th of July. Another thing is when the 1984 TMC's come into service, they also said "WHEELCHAIR BUS"
B61 Leonard
I did it. Played hooky to make the trip, so here it goes>
N20-from Flushing to Hicksville. Lv 10:25 A.M.-arriving 11:40 A.M. Got Orion V-CNG #170. He was crowded all the way to Great Neck and then emptied out. (if they ran special trips from Flushing to Great Neck during the day it would not be so bad).
N79-Hicksville to Roosevelt Field. Lv 12:00 p.m.-arriving 12:15 p.m.
Got Orion V #613. The driver was listening on the radio how the newer Orion buses were breaking down on the N20/N21 and how LI Bus was getting more. He liked the Gilligs but lack of maintence loss their service.(had hole in back of bus-small).
N15-Roosevlet Field to Hempstead. Lv 12:45 p.m.-arriving 1:05 p.m.
had ORION V-CNG #314. This was the new bus and it was a good ride. Except when i opened the window(it made such a noise i thought it would break).
N91-Hemsptead to JFK. Lv 1:25 p.m.-arriving 2:06 p.m.
got Orion V #629. Nice ride-empty though.
PA Flyer #106-Airport to Train Station. Lv 2:35 p.m.-arr 2:50 p.m.
Its a shame the Port Authority doesnt keep these buses in better condition. I guess they waiting till the Airtran goes into service.
Q21. Howard Beach-JFK to 116th St. Lv 3:10 p.m.-arr 3:35 p.m.
GOT TMC RTS #1149. Sign broken. kept flasing Q22 when it was Q21.
Q35. 116th St-to Kings Plaza. Lv 3:45 p.m.-arr 4:05 p.m.
Got RTS TMC #1151. If anybody noticed Green was late today, they were doing a drug test. Drivers could not get to buses until they did their "duty".
B2-Kings Plaza -16th St Station. Lv 4:29 p.m.-arr 4:45 p.m.
Got #3503. It seems Flatbush got UP old express buses. (did not get on #4497-but its runnig there too). Also saw #3916 and #3965. Guess Flatbush got lucky.
Not a bad trip. Next Day off i try Suffolk Transit.
GBL TMC 1151 looks like junk from the last time that I rode her on the Q60. 1149 is EX-QS 275. Bet she had a pretty good ride to her- When she was at QS, her rear sign was stuck on AR. She's had sign problems before. 3965-I remember her days at QV-great bus! I rode on 2 3900s today: 3971 Q46 and 3906 Q30. 3971 looked like 8971. Was packed even past SJU. 3906 was slow and sluggish-just pushing herself along. She'll be the next to head to scrap I bet.
On Wednesday, I'll TRY and ride a 1700 EXPRESS from Jamaica. I'll let you all know what I got and how it went.
Yep you should try Suffolk transit. The new Orions are nice and fast. The S60 hit 67 on route 97 in Stony Brook. The old buses max out a 40 last time I rode them.
If you have time ride the S58 or S62 to Riverhead from the Smitheaven
Mall. 1.50 cash or token, don't think they take Metrocards.
"N79-Hicksville to Roosevelt Field. Lv 12:00 p.m.-arriving 12:15 p.m.
Got Orion V #613. The driver was listening on the radio how the newer Orion buses were breaking down on the N20/N21
and how LI Bus was getting more. He liked the Gilligs but lack of maintence loss their service.(had hole in back of bus-small)."
Huh? They are having problems with the new Orions? That's strange because they seem to run alot better than the older Cummins.
I think this is purely a maintainance issue, Queens Surface Orions have the same engine and are not having any problems.
If you ask me, I'd tell you could give LI Bus the best bus on earth and it'll STILL break down!
"N20-from Flushing to Hicksville. Lv 10:25 A.M.-arriving 11:40 A.M. Got Orion V-CNG #170. He was crowded all the way
to Great Neck and then emptied out. (if they ran special trips from Flushing to Great Neck during the day it would not be so
bad). "
Must've been slow with that Cummins L10G. The buses are very crowded between Flushing and Great Neck, they should run more Great Neck-Flushing buses but they don't have enough buses.
"N79-Hicksville to Roosevelt Field. Lv 12:00 p.m.-arriving 12:15 p.m.
Got Orion V #613. The driver was listening on the radio how the newer Orion buses were breaking down on the N20/N21
and how LI Bus was getting more. He liked the Gilligs but lack of maintence loss their service.(had hole in back of bus-small). "
A hole in the back of the bus. It seems almost every LI Bus has one.
It's a shame the new ones are breaking down. LI Bus never should've gotten CNG since they couldn't afford to keep them up.
"N15-Roosevlet Field to Hempstead. Lv 12:45 p.m.-arriving 1:05 p.m.
had ORION V-CNG #314. This was the new bus and it was a good ride. Except when i opened the window(it made such a
noise i thought it would break). "
The new ones do have a good ride, except when they BREAK DOWN.
"N91-Hemsptead to JFK. Lv 1:25 p.m.-arriving 2:06 p.m.
got Orion V #629. Nice ride-empty though. "
The JFK flyer is a pretty fast ride down Peninsula Blvd, though it can be slow after that.
Well at least you should be lucky, you didn't have too much agrivation, or a breakdown. I fear one may be in my future though, I know the new bus will stall out on the hill by my house.
Hey LI Bus, ever heard of PREVENTATIVE MAINTAINANCE?
Here's 1 but MTA: Last Monday, I observed a hole on 3938'S right rear side. I saw her on Monday on the Q88, the hole was gone. Now if we could get that treatment at Triboro Coach and LI Bus, then we'd all be satisfied. Note: The following buses I know at TCC have holes in them-ALL Orions:
3004-looks like someone tried to take a huge bite out of the bus- left side rear, 3012-right side(I think), 3068 right side, 3070-Near tailpipe upper left side-now covered with tape. I'm sure there are plenty of others with holes in their rears or backs-once I see them, they'll be posted here.
Q53#3068Gary
Well as we know Orions don't have a very good frame and body.
make sure you are well ahead of schedule for your connections..suffolk buses regularly run 10-15 min ahead of schedule..i did a run from Greeport to Jamaica by bus a couple of years back..it took all day..good luck
Why does the Orion and RTS ride so different?
When a RTS hits a bump it fells like its falling apart. The jolt from even the slightest bump is amazing. The orions handle this much better.
There is a slight jolt if the bump is big but its not like the RTS.
It seems that the Orion has a much better ride.
How about the New Flyers?
BTW: From previous posts why is it easier to drive a Orion then a RTS? What are the differences?
The New Flyer (both artric and low floor) has a very smooth orion like ride.It must be that shoebox shape that some people hate:)
In case you all have not noticed, I like the RTS bus, no, I LOVE the RTS bus. I think it's one of the best things put on god's green earth. So, when a few people decide to trash it, I get a bit, um, on edge.
You see, the RTS has accomplished, and IS still accomplishing many things in the transit world. It's the Michael Jordon of buses and here's why.
You see Michael Jordon accomplished many things in basketball. Many believe he was one of the greatest palyers of all time, if not the greatest. The RTS was on top of the tranist world throughtout the 80's and early 90's. It's a mainstay in numerous fleets across the country and is a proven workhorse. That's why I feel it deserves some respect. Asthetics aside, you can't tell me that a moderately maintained RTS is not THE most relaible bus besides the New Look (GM of course). Now, let me relate my little analogy to some of your arguments against the RTS.
Basman and DHF60, seem to be the RTS's harshest critics, so I'll use their arguments. DHF60 is a bus driver. He drives the RTS buses. He hates them. Fair enough. Say DHF60 was a basketball coach and he coached Jordon. Let's say Jordon was a prick and was hard to work with but produced results. That's the relationship between the RTS bus and DHF60. So, I can understand his argument now and hopefully, he can understand where I'm coming from.
Basman on the other hand seems to have problesm with the asthetics of the RTS. He doesn't seem to have any gripes about the performance but never compliments it either. He just rails insults about how the RTS "looks," not how it performs. Let's say Basman thought Jordon was ugly and nitpicked such things as his hands, skin color (not racially, but tone wise), legs, feet, etc. But, Jordon was still a great player nonetheless these "shortcomings." This is basically his argument against the RTS, it an old design, windows are too small, yada yada yada. Hey, doesn't it still produce results? Doesn't Jordan till produce results? Do looks really matter that much? Yes they do, but not if that's not even the argument. I hope I've clarified a few things.
Now, my stance on the Orions. An Orion is like one of those pretty boy players. It looks nice and does an adequate job so it seems better than it really is. I nitpick about looks on an Orion as Basman does the RTS, but, I also note that it does not perform as well as an RTS an if not maticulously maintained will fall apart. YIt is easy to nitpick the little things along with the big things. I hope you all understand my analogies. I'm kind of tired of typing and my wording may be off.
So, in conclusion, if I've come off as rude, I'm sorry. But don't be so quick to forget what the RTS has done over the last 23 years when a shiny new toy comes along. Don't be so quick as to say the RTS era is over when there are still tens of thousands on the road today. This, my friends IS the golden age of the RTS. You may not want to admit it, but deep inside you do KNOW it, the RTS is at this moment in time, transit bus king.
Thank you and...
RTS4Life
Now, my stance on the Orions. An Orion is like one of those pretty boy players. It looks nice and does an adequate job so it seems better than it really is.
Run that by me again? An Orion looks nice? Since when? They're among the ugliest beasts to hit the streets of NYC.
I personally don't like the Orions myself, but, many seem to and don't mind that shoebox design. It's "modern" according to some and that's where the pretty boy reference comes from.
Being a BO, I look at buses differently than those who don't drive them. My preference is, and has always been the RTS 8000 series. I prefer that bus over any bus in the system because to me, it's the most comfortable to drive and operate. I've driven just about every RTS/TMC series, and a few of the Orions when I was at JGL. We had both CNG and deisel Orions, a CNG RTS (8567 I believe??), and a host of TMC/RTS deisel buses.
The main reason I dislike the Orion bus is because the drivers platform is woefully lower than that of the RTS platform. Being I like to sit as high as possible, this created an uncomfortable position in which to drive, since the platform on the Orion is about 6" lower than that of the RTS. To make matters worse, some seats dont rise as much as others, hence at times I would be forced to "peer over" the farebox to see the right front corner of my bus!
More reasons I prefer the RTS:
The Orion is terribly louder than an RTS.
The Orion drives "boaty" whereas the RTS is a firm handling bus.
Both the WC lifts and kneel feature of the Orion is slower than that of the RTS.
Of course the Orion does have a few advantages, as in the AC system. They are much cooler than the RTS in the summer. They accellerate better than the RTS, but the braking system is different. I like the telescoping steering of the Orion, but like the smaller wheel of the RTS better.
To me, its just a matter of preference. I prefer the RTS series bus over the Orion basically because of the personal comfort it affords me. I suppose if forced to drive an Orion, Id get used to it and possibly like it, but nothing would beat the "good old days" of driving an RTS :-)
QV
The steering wheel on the RTS's telescope also.
This is an 8.5 inch x 11 inch 20 page booklet printed by the MTA. They later decided not to distribute it. It contains 20 glossy, color pages of actual size photos of 1997-99 commemorative MetroCards & cardholders. Full color photos of the Subway Series 97, Then and Now, Emigrant, JVC Jazz, Healthy City, Ferry Boat, Yankees 98, Subway Cool, Millennial Journeys, Mets International Week plus 63 Cardholders including the complete Great Subway series. All photos are actual size & full color! A beautiful collectors MUST HAVE. The supply is very limited. When they are gone, they are gone.
Send $10.00 ea.+ $2. P & H in check or Money Order
Made out to Mike Makman.
To: Prof. Putter, Po Box 755, Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
Alright, I just can't take it anymore. So now I hear the new Orions are breaking down too. So just who are the freakin' idiots maintaining buses at LIB? Did they get their maintainance certificate in a cracker jack box? QSC uses Orions with the SAME engine as the new LI Bus Orions (Series 50G).
I can tell you that the QSC Orions are far superior to the LIB ones. The LIB ones are alot rougher, and are not as fast. They are also having electrical problems.
It's NOT Orion's fault. It's LI Bus!!
Now is the time for LI Bus to be dissolved and merged with NYCT, because I rely on these buses to get around and I just can't take it anymore!
I think I'm gonna be taking LIRR from now on!! But not before I march down to LI Bus (this Wednsday) and tell them what a piece of crap bus company they are running. I want to meet with Neil Yellin, and the "mechanics" in the shop, and ask them why they cannot do their friggin' job. I'm sick and tired of breakdowns, late buses, etc. It's obviously not Cummins, but LI Bus.
Even Homer Simpson is smarter than the folks at LI Bus. Somebody has to set them straight. I'm not gonna sit by idle and let new Orion V CNG's fall apart. Not a chance!
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/railsandtrains
[Now is the time for LI Bus to be dissolved and merged with NYCT, because I rely on these buses to get around and I just can't take it anymore! ]
That sounds very egocentric :-)
[But not before I march down to LI Bus (this Wednsday) and tell them ...]
But woudn't it make more sense to complain to your elected officials, papers, etc.
Arti
I have. There is never any response from my elected officials. Even though service hasn't been cut yet (due to the county's financial situation), in a way it has deteriorated significantly. Holes in buses, peeling paint on buses (even new ones), windows stuck open, broken signs, and breakdowns are just a few of my complaints. I just don't have the energy to stand a half an hour in the freezing cold to wait for a bus. I'm burned out.
And it really upsets me they get these nice new buses and they are just falling apart. Someone has to pay, and I can't afford it.
I will write my politicians again about it, but since mostly poor migrants, elderly, and the disabled ride LI Bus I doubt we'll see much action. The hell with it. I am not going to even bother getting around Long Island anymore. I'm too tired. I'd rather pay more $$ and walk 3/4 of a mile than ride LI Bus ever again. And why they got hard seats on the new Orions sux when all the new NYCT and DOT buses have felt seats.
I lost my Mom this year now I gotta rely on these piece of crap buses all the time. Between the loneliness, missing my Mom, and tight financial straits, and the most unreliable bus service ever I feel like I'm gonna BREAKDOWN.
I really feel for those LIRR commuters. They have it soo bad. Perhaps if they tried commuting on LI Bus they'd kiss the LIRR trains! :-o
I'm gonna move near a good LIRR station and hopefully never have to ride LI Bus again!
Didn't think you'd crack so soon.
Have I told you that I'd rather have a very large penis rammed down my throat than ride LI bus?
Do yourself a huge favor and stick to the LIRR. At least if you're delayed, then it'll be in a comfy seat and with far fewer dregs of humanity around you.
Also according to doctors: riding LI bus makes your hair fall out.
What? You'd think I'd make this stuff up?
John, let me ask you a question: How old are you? Also have you ever thought of getting your permit then your license? Right now, I have a driver's permit and I plan to learn how to drive. I know the insurance kills, that's also another reason why I'm not driving-oterwise I would be. I know the LIE is a total mess but maybe you should learn how to drive rather than putting up with LI Bus's crappy service. No matter what you're gonna have problems. I had them myself today Q88 was packed and so was the Q65. However 409-the Q65 I was on didn't have a pleasant smell inside of her and I couldn't wait to get off of her. I think it was somebody's BO. And I REALLY Get angry when the people just block your way from getting to the back. I'm not a driver but I yell at the damn people to move back. Take a ride on the Q60 and you'll see nothing but this especially with the senior citizens. All the seats in the rear of the bus are empty and the front is a sardine. Hang in there my friend, and also I apologize about losing your mom- that's VERY difficult to go through and I know how you feel.
I am 24 years old, but I have no funds for driving right now. Besides I'd rather take mass transit, if it was more reliable.
Alot of bus riders are very stubborn, especially the senior citizens (I call them the grumpy munchkins of Great Neck). They refuse to move toward the rear even when the driver tells them to, and they push other passengers and often cut in line (alot of the senior citizens from other areas aren't rude though).
And just the other day a grumpy old man ran out of a deli (all covered up, looked like some kind of odd monster) right into the middle of the road to flag down the bus. He was not at a bus stop, and when the bus didn't stop he gave the driver a nasty gesture.
John, Thanks for the kind words (about QSC). I hope you enjoyed our walk along the tracks of Brooklyn (SBR & NYCH) with the BMTman as much as I did Sunday ... was a nice turn out on a cold day.
I've been in their depot (LI Bus) at Mitchel Field ... didn't look too bad. Saw some mechanics working.
I know of at least one employee there who has seen your posts. Why not consider changing you tone toward a constructive fomat vs. the shot gun approach ?
Mr t__:^)
Well I don't blame the workers, it's merely a result of the Nassau county budget problem. In my eyes of course the solution is easy, to raise taxes on the many people who earn over $100,000 in this county. Those who can afford it should foot the bill of the shortfall.
I spoke to a senior driver today on the N21 going back home, he said the new buses are working out fine, adding that they are much better than the older "Cummins" buses. I guess it depends who you talk to.
332 was running pretty good on the way home. And about 8 minutes early for a change.
I saw that bus on the N21 in Flushing around 605pm.
Part of the problem, from what I can gather, is the lack of support (if you want to call it that) from Nassau County politicians (ie. County Exec Gullotta, Dems on NC Legislature). It doesn't help that LI Bus has been treated like the rotten stepchild of the MTA almost from its MSBA days.
Nassau County our motto
"If you don't drive, then the hell with you!"
Pretty much sums up the feelings of the Executive and the Legislature.
You are right, but unfortunately LI is set up so that if you don't have a car, you have a problem! Yes, I read in one of your previous posts that you can't afford a car right now, so it's a catch 22. You are only the second adult from LI I know who doesn't own a car. Move to eastern Queens where you have a much more extensive and better maintained bus service: the TA.
It's very hard to be poor on Long Island. At least in Queens the transit is much better, and the stores have cheap prices. And in Nassau the poor don't get much attention or sympathy. But I can't move there since I'm in supported housing and they only deal with Nassau county. I'm also used to Nassau, I lived here all my life. It could be worse, at least I live in a safe area and have access to a bus route.
Thank God I'm not in a dump like Hempstead, Roosevelt, or Freeport.
I just wish the county officials would recognize there are other people in this county besides rich SUV driving snobs.
Also LI Bus is stupid not to have special service to malls during the holidays. I noticed NJT has special holiday season runs on Saturdays(11/25/00-1/3/01) on the 175 from the GWB to the Garden State Plaza.
Something has to give in Nassau county, a start would be to not re-elect Dictator Gulotta.
NJ Transit operates additional service on several bus lines to other malls also, like the 11/28, 704, 705, 712 (Willowbrook), and 709, 756, 770, etc (Garden State Plaza) and 84/86 (Newport Center).
NJT also added a couple of late night trips on the 603 and 609 lines from Quaker Bridge and Mercer Malls to Trenton. I haven't had the chance to find out what, if any, added service they are offering from Cherry Hill, Moorestown, and other South Jersey malls, but I'm sure that they have.
SEPTA has also added later service to Exton Square, Springfield, King of Prussia, Granite Run, Plymouth Meeting, and Montgomery malls.
I saw on Mark Holmes bus roster page dated December 9th that Maspeth Bus Depot is coming in 2001 with the routes already being assigned to it.
If this is true, what month will the depot ope, how many buses will be assigned to Maspeth & will the depot go through reconstruction or will it remain the same as it is.
Perhaps Mr. Holmes can enlighten us as to the info and its source.
we all know its you follo.
Hudson, you took the words right out of my mouth. Follo-PLEASE Get OUT! STOP HARASSING THIS PAGE! YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS EVER SINCE THIS BOARD STARTED. NOW STOP IT!!! AGAIN I WILL SAY THIS-PUT OUT OR GET OUT! SITES LIKE TREVOR LOGAN'S TRANSITALK AND TRANSITWORLD HAVE ALL THE INFO THAT YOU NEED IF YOU DO NEED IT. AND THAT'S WHAT EMAILS ARE FOR TOO. DON'T KNOW SOMETHING? EMAIL IT TO THE PERSON THAT YOU WANT TO ASK. Sorry for the caps guys but I feel like doing this the shotgun approach right now! ;) PUT OUT OR GET OUT-PLEASE!!!!
There are no plans at this time to open Maspeth as a depot next year.
The facility was purchased as a maintance facility only so Brooklyn and Staten Island buses do not have to be sent to the new CMF facility in the Bronx.
Storage problems can be resolved once the CMF at East New York is relocated to the Bronx.When CMF relocates you will be able to double the capacity of East New York.
Storage will be aproblem when Flatbush is converted to an all articulated depot in 2003. The B-41,B-44 and B-46 will be converted to all articuulated buses with the possibility of either the B-49 or the B-82 being the last route.
In that case the B-2 and B-31 will go to Ulmer Park and B-49 if not converted to articulated buses can go to East New York.Since Ulmer Park has capacity problems the B-4 or X-27 can be transferred to Gleason which still has room. Since the x-27 is to have all MCI coaches a transfer to Gleason is possible,especially if the TA adds a 4th express route in Brooklyn along Bay Ridge Parkway (the old Metro Apple BM-15)
Thank You
Flatbush an artic depot in 2003? How do you know this?
The information was told to me by a Depot Manager in Brooklyn.Then again you know the MTA PLan A today Plan B tomorrow PLan C next week.
One never knows.
Thank You
The roster in Transit Talk is incorrect in stating that the Maspeth Depot is opening in 2001. Sorry about the mixup--a corrected version of the roster will be up soon.
Mark
Yesterday, I spotted LIB #625 on Kissena Blvd in Flushing, and the back of it was WRAPPED! I'd never seen that on a Long Island Bus before.
The rear wraps on LI Bus appeared about a month or two ago. They are on mostly Diesel Orions, haven't seen any on the CNG's yet. I believe they're all for Danier Leather which have shops at both Roosevelt Field and Walt Whitman Malls. If you search back, there were some previous posts here at Bustalk.
They are wrapping the rear of the diesel Orions.
Looks like someone at LI Bus woke up to the facts:
1. Lots of folks SEE the bus, even if they aren't inside
2. LI Bus gets to keep the cash from wraps, i.e. they don't have to share it with anyone in the MTA.
At this depot it reduces our subsidy, but since Nassau County is cutting off funding to LI Bus, it's found money.
Mr t__:^)
I saw something strange on the South Shore of SI on Saturday, December 9th, a saw a few NYCT MCI buses on Huguenot Av & Bloomfield & Foster Rds. There were people with clipboards timing the buses. In addition, I also saw 5 more NYCT MCI buses ayt Hylan Blvd & Sequine Av & 6 more NYCT MCI buses on Hylan Blvd & Page Av.
Does anyone have any idea on what was happening on the South Shore of SI on that day or were they testing possible new South Shore express buses.
PLEASE BARRY FOLLO, you just don't give up, do you? Maybe I'll look up the name BARRY FOLLO in the phone book, call him and leave a bunch of questions on his answering machine.
BIG AL
:::::::
Today I rode on a few RTS buses, which reminded me of just how crappy Orions are. The first bus I took was an M9 from East Broadway in Chinatown to around the WTC. I think it was a TMC, hard seater, 8000 series with a 6V-92 engine. Sounded great, and the bus just felt so solid. Also I like the way RTS's seal the sound out. Orions don't seal out sound as good.
The moment I sat down and we started moving I just felt so much more comfortable than on an Orion. And the bus didn't jerk around like Orions do.
Leaving WTC I got an M9 to nearby Park Row to get the M103. The M9 looked like a newer RTS (TMC), but it still had a 6V-92 engine.
Then I got on a brand new RTS on the M103 at Park Row. I was originally just going to take it to Bowery & Canal. But the Series 50 engine was really fast, and I just felt so comfortable I stayed on to 42nd!! It had felt seats, a bit rough at idle but still much better than an Orion.
And I like the windows on RTS's. And I like that back door on the RTS's, it's much easier to open than on the Orions.
Later on I took the subway to 71st/Contintal and got the Q65A to Main. An Orion CNG, ran pretty good and fast. Then a 6000 series Orion on the Q20A to Flushing. That Orion was very jerky and loud to say the least. Not too comfortable. Then one more Orion, the ride home on the N21 was 332, ran pretty good, and we ran early for a change.
I was on Jay Street tonight and saw Varsity Transit #793. Anybody who gets Downtown should ceck this out, this is a COOL BUS!!! It looks very nice, wide front and back doors,plus a wheelchair capacity. I think maybe DOT should invest in buying this. or Mta(definately LI bus). The company was Thomas. Is this a prottype? Also, why hasnt any of the DOT companies bought more of the MCI classics? Do they make them anymore??
These are not like the Thomas's that MSBA(cuse me LIBUS)uses .
Because it's a converted school bus.
-Hank
Varsity's Thomas CL-960 is not a converted school bus, It was a "Coach" bus from the West Point Military Facility.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
let LI bus buy these and run them on the flyer. they look much better then the Thomas buses they have now.
That thing's hideous! It makes me wanna look at an Orion! Hahahahahahahahahahaha! HA!
Trevor, Nice photo, thanks for sharing.
BTW, this Sunday the BMTman & I did a drive by of the scrap lot near Command ... I think I saw another one of these there ?
Mr t__:^)
Thurston you guys did see another one. Here it is......
.
You may have also noticed that many of Jamaica's Grumman 870s are now gone. I believe they were purchased by Private Transportation. Lastly, it looks like some if not all of Commands 1984 GMC RTS (351-356) are going to be used by Varsity since at least one of them (ex-#353) now has Varsity decals but was not renumbered. Looks brand new!
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
transitworld.org
Thanks for confirming ... we weren't sure at the time what it was, Trevor's photo brought it into focus ;-)
We did see a few Flexibles left, but not many.
Varsity is another of the "Cooper" companies. Command may own/control/operate it. There's some kind of relationship there, but I don't know exactly what it is. They used to be "IT" in the school bus business. They also do some work for another City agency ... was told once but I don't remember the agency name.
Mr t
My partner is correct, Jamaica's former Grumman 870's have been purchased by Private Transportation to be used on the B110 line. They have been driven under their own power from Command Storage to Private transportation. It is unclear if they will keep the original numbers or change them, but it is confirmed that they will be repainted. Hope that helps.
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
What's Thomas track record as a heavy duty (standing room only) transit bus? ZERO.
AFAIK, the highest profile transit system that uses Thomas buses - not counting LI Bus - is...
Greensboro, North Carolina.
Feel free to insert your own joke here...
Why not? To NC, it is a "local" supplier.
Fair enough. But, I've riden on a TL960 in the Philly suburbs, and I'm not impressed. They make Gilligs look great by comparison.
If you saw the LFS 200 it is a great looking bus. Well laid out for both driver and passengers. Wide doors, good standing room etc.
BUT it is a Thomas bus. They dont have a good record in the transit forum. Thomas and Orion are now part of the same company so I dont see them competing with each other. I doubt there will be many of them around. Especially in the New York market where buses are beat daily.
In 1994-95 (not sure exactly when), NovaBUS took over production of the Classic from MCI. I think production ceased about a year or two later. The only operator in the NYC area with Nova Classics are Conn DOT (CT Transit) in Stamford. The only other East Coast carrier that operates Nova Classics is the Port Authority Transit in Allegheny County/Pittsburgh.
IIRC, LI Bus used to have a fleet of Thomas buses (Saf-t-liners, I think) from 1985, purchased second hand from the State of New York Corrections Dept. As I recall, they were used on the N94 and N95 lines, as well as the JFK Flyer.
Anyway, #793 is a Thomas CL-960. I wouldn't recommend those buses for MTA or NYCDOT. I can tell you that Thomas is a good company for a smaller transit system, but I don't think they can cut the mustard in NYC.
I've riden on a different model of Thomas bus - the TL960 - on Krapf's Transit service between West Chester and Coatesville. Those buses constantly break down every couple of weeks.
If, and when, DOT decides to replace the Classics at Liberty Lines and NYBS (for that matter, add Westchester to the list), they might want to go with the MCI D4500, seeing as the TA went that route.
nycDOT usually does a "me too" based on what the TA does, so I don't understand what is taking them so long to decide on a MCI Clasic replacement. The new TA express coach looks just fine to me.
Disclaimer: I don't work for the MTA, TA or nycDOT & am speaking for myself not my employeer.
Mr t__:^)
If the privates do a "me too" and the TA finally decides that the New Flyer Vikings work well, how about those as a replacement for the classics? Heck, you guys at QSC are just a stone's throw from the College Point storage yard; make some calls and *someone* put that Viking in service already! :-)
Does anyone know the routing of the new BX25...it appears to follow
the BX26...more than that I'm not sure of.
According to the Bx25/26 timetable, the Bx25 operates via the Bx26 routing from Bedford Park, however the Bx25 bypasses Co-op City, operating from Bartow and Baychester, then via Bartow, Loop, Asch, Co-op City Blvd, and back to Bartow, and on route to Erskine Pl. The service opreates weekdays only; there are only 9 AM trips from Co-op City to Bedford Park, and 7 PM trips from Bedford Park to Co-op City. The Bx25 does not serve Sections 2, 3, or 4 of Co-op City.
This is the last quiz (ok, you can stop cheering now). It wasn't easy as there haven't been any real upheavals in Brooklyn bus service (unlike Queens and The Bronx), and just about all of you know the old Staten Island route numbers so I had to see if I could get a few questions to jog your memory a little bit.
Just like before, I matched up the 2000 Brooklyn Bus Map to the 1976 Brooklyn Bus Guide. For the Staten Island part, I went further back to the 1969 Staten Island Bus Map and compared that to the 2000 Staten Island Bus Map.
To make it a little interesting, this time I will NOT post the answers. I'll confirm the first poster that gets all the questions right.
*********The first person to get ALL the questions right will win a brand new "Do Not Hold Doors" sticker, just like the ones posted on the subway doors. It's brand new and has never been used. Be the first to get them all right and it's yours free!!!*********
Good luck! Here are the Brooklyn Questions:
1) There are seven lines that ran in 1976 that are totally discontinued today. The B30 is one. Name the other six, and name one of the main "via" roads that the six lines served(example: the B68 runs "via" Coney Island Av).
2) Today's B1 route operates between Shore Rd/71 St and Oriental Blvd/Mackenzie St. In 1976, two different lines covered the current route. Name them.
3) The B15 operated over the Manhattan Bridge between Canal/Baxter Sts and Ashland Pl/Hanson St(LIRR). It ran during rush hours only though service was very limited. In 1976, how many intervals ran in each direction on the AM and PM rush hours?
Here are the Staten Island questions:
4) In 1969, what two lines operated via Bay St?
5) Name the old route number used in 1969 for today's following routes: S51, S42, S52.
6) One SI route in 1969 only had one terminus as it ran in a loop in both directions. It closely followed the route of today's S55/56. What was the 1969 route number and what was it's terminus?
The following questions compare the 1969 and 1974 Brooklyn Bus Maps:
7) The B24 and B30 routes were combined into a single route in 1969. What was the 1969 route number?
8) What route served Starrett City in 1976? Before Starrett City opened, what route operated along the similar route via Flatlands Av from Canarsie to ENY? The Canarsie-ENY route number was changed when S.City service was inaugurated. Name both route numbers.
9)In 1969, three routes operated between Staten Island and Brooklyn via the Verrazano Bridge. Name them.
10) What was the old name for the Williamsburg Bridge Plaza bus terminal?
1. B88 Culture Loop
B15 via Flatbush/Manny B.
B19 via Carlton/Adelphi
B77s via Columbia Street
B33 via Hamilton/Prospect
?????
2. ???
3. 1 in each direction
4. ?
5. ??
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. RX8 Between Downtown Bklyn and Port Richmond
R7 Between Clove Road and 95 Street Station
?
10. ?
I guess I don't know as much as most of you guys do
B61 Leonard
i got a few of them.
1-b50,b5,b33,b10,b34,b21,b74ss-shoppers special.
2-b21/b34.
3-every 40 minutes.
4-S2 and S1.
5- S2=S51,S42=S5,S52=S101.
6-S6s.
Thats the best i can do.
1-B15 via Manhattan Bridge,B-19 via Carlton Ave,B-33 Hamilton Ave,B-36 Sea Gate Shuttle,B-77 Columbia Street Shuttle,B-88 Culture Loop II
2-B1-Manhattan Bridge,B21 Brighton Beach Avenue,B34 Bay Ridge Avenue.
It really is 3 routes not 2
3-50 minuates
4-R2 and R5?
5-S51(R2),S42(R101),S52(R104)
6-R115
7-B24/29
8-B50 or Starrett City Shuttle, The B-84 ran between Rkway Pkway and Ashford Street and became the B-6 Shuttle in 1970 and merged into the B-6 Feb. 1972
9-R7,R7A,R8X
10-Washington Plaza
The Brooklyn answers i am 100% sure, Staten Island i am guessing
Thank You
So far, no one has not gotten all 10 questions right.
Correction to question 1: There are seven routes to name.
Correctly guess 6 out of 7.
So please advise which answers are wrong
Thank You
By me living 15 mins away from the plant in Oriskany, we get first hand of the happenings at Orion. www.uticaod.com/news/local2.htm
B61 Leonard
Surely the cuts hurt workers, NY, and Orion Buses. That's why mergers are bad and should be limited, but in a time of rampant selfishness and capitalism, workers get hurt.
Orions aren't good buses anyway though, they seem like they are made out of plastic, compared to the sturdy RTS's.
There is a small article in todays Daily News about the state of negotations between the City, the "privates" and the unions.
The City wants a one year contract, the unions want a 3 year one plus PARITY with their brothers in local 100, i.e. at the TA.
The is the posibility that big changes could occur. Strikes have been the event in the past that resulted in new operators (management as well as union, or even non-union). Both sides need to be careful.
Mr t__:^)
When was the last time the DOTs had a strike?
Peace,
ANDEE
How long ... before my time here ... I was recalling how the TA came to be, i.e. going back to trolley as well as bus days when they were all run by private firms.
BTW, there's a story about a strike at one of the privates, NY Bus Service. They came to an impass, the owner said ... well I'm going on vacation in Fla., if you want to come back to work call me, they did.
Mr t__:^)
There were several unannounced walkouts in the mid-to-late eighties. I was living in College Point at the time, and we only had two QS (25/34, 65) and one TA route (20).
One hit in the morning. Mobs of people were waiting at bus stops all over the Point, unaware this had happened. When a dispatcher in a Queens Surface car pulled up and announced what had happened, things turned very ugly.
Several employees at my office were docked for lateness because, as management put it, the subways and (TA) buses were running fine, so therefore there WAS no strike and their tardiness would not be excused. (Typical myopia on the part of people who don't live in Queens and assume ALL bus service is provided by the TA as it is in the other boroughs- just TRY explaining the concept of 'private' bus companies!) Alternate side wasn't suspended as it would normally be during strikes, so the enforcement agents feasted on all the people who hastily drove the subways and disregarded the signs.
Several months after one such morning walkout, one person stood up at a Straphangers' Forum at Queens Borough Hall and told the representatives from Green, Triboro and Queens Surface that the unexpected lack of bus service cost him his job. The response was, "Well, it was a wildcat strike, son." The unemployed person snarled "That's why these franchised companies should be taken over- and you're not my f****n' father, a**hole!" He then stormed out to much applause.
Another hit during the day, leaving mobs of people at the bus stands on Main Street that rush hour. Since service was normal that morning, no one would believe there was no service that afternoon. Angry College Pointers tried to board an already-infrequently-running Q20. Some woman complained she had "no way to get to her class at Queens College"-apparently she never heard of the Q17, a TA route that serves upper Kissena Boulevard along with the 25 and 34.
From what the papers said the next day, TA dispatchers at garages whose routes serve areas also served by the stricken privates- mostly Flushing and Fresh Pond- refused to add any service to compensate.
Of course, the people who normally took express buses into Manhattan from the wealthier areas of eastern Queens (North Shore Towers, Bay Terrace, Union Turnpike corridor) were forced to use local TA buses and- gasp, horrors- the SUBWAY!! I can recall a couple of Yuppies (distinguished in 1988 by briefcases and Reeboks- no cellphones or laptops yet) bemoaning the indignity of having to ride with "THESE people!".
The nineties were mostly walkout-free. But when you consider that Queens' population has exploded during that time- especially in Corona, Jackson Heights, Richmond Hill, Astoria, Woodside, Maspeth, Elmhurst, and other 'private bus neighborhoods' that aren't entirely within walking distance of the subway- any job action would be disastrous.
Queens must be the only urban district that's served by four different private bus companies as well as the municipal one.
Howard, That's some memory you have ... very detailed. Hope you don't mind but I forwarded a copy to my boss here with the comment that you & I were, almost, doing some railfanning this past Sunday.
Mr t__:^)
Green Bus went on strike in 1978 for 4 months during that summer. There was talk then that if the strike had lasted any longer than it did, the TA would have stepped in.
New Flyer Artics #5406 and #5407 have benn running on the M-15. Even though they have Kingsbridge decals they are in the training phase. Also they have another atric I saw sitting out in front of 126th depot but I didin't get the number
What are New Flyer Artics?
The New Flyer D60HF "Galaxy" Articulated Bus
Hope this helps you out!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
"Photos by TLJ"
I'm giving a little quiz under post #23303(Brooklyn/Staten Island bus quiz).
If you get all 10 questions right you will win TWO prizes free!
1) A brand new, never used "Do Not Hold Doors" sticker.
2) A brand new 2000 London Underground subway map.
Test your knowledge! You've got nothing to lose!
Now I've been on alot of the 6xxx Orions at Stengal and Yukon. It's amazing how they have "aged" so much, the windows are dirty and the paint looks old.
The new RTS's which I've rode on in Manhattan and Queens still look like new. To me it's so clear how much better made RTS's are than Orions.
I'm not saying Orions are the worst buses are the road, the worst are the Gillig Phantom and the Grummans.
Clearly Orions can be fast with the right engine (series 50) but they just aren't as durable as the RTS.
Some Orions are better than others, it of course depends on the engine. The ones with the 6V-92 and Cummins engines are really slow and loud, however they do perform well with DD series 50, in both diesel and CNG.
But all in all, when you want a bus that's gonna be in good shape for years to come, and still look good than clearly the RTS should be your choice, not Orion.
Just out of curiosity, how new are the new RTSs? Also, the RTS is probably a pretty durable bus that could last for years to come, and Orion may not. However, I'm not trying to argue or anything, but, i don't know, most people like the up-to-date on the edge (I'm not talking about bus drivers, I'm talking about normal people). For instance, I took my friend on a bus for the first time when we were going into town. Now, it happened to be a Neoplan that was wrapped, I don't exactly remember the fleet number, but he was sorta dissatisfied. After all, the bus wasn't really advanced, it was an 80's style after all. However, I'm pretty sure that if he rode one of the NABIs or one of the new Neoplans or the New Flyers that are coming next year, he would have had a more enjoyable experience (although none of those buses would really ever serve the 105, hint hint). Anyway, people like cutting edge technology, so often times transit companies don't really care about how durable a bus would be a half century from now.
[Just out of curiosity, how new are the new RTSs?]
The newer generation RTS buses (TMC/Nova) are more durable than their GM counterparts. The TMC/Nova version of the RTS has less of a rattle than the GM version.
[However, I'm pretty sure that if he rode one of the NABIs or one of the new Neoplans or the New Flyers that are coming next year, he would have had a more enjoyable experience (although none of those buses would really ever serve the 105, hint hint). Anyway, people like cutting edge technology, so often times transit companies don't really care about how durable a bus would be a half century from now.]
Frankly, I think he'd be less satisfied if he took the NABIs. I personally think they're a piece of crap compared to the Neoplans. (As for seeing them on the 105, it does happen from time to time, but usually on short trips to Ardmore; spotting a NABI on the 105 west of Ardmore is about as rare as seeing a NABI - or for that matter a 40 ft Neo - on the 92/133 between West Chester, Exton, and King of Prussia.)
Your friend might have enjoyed riding the NJT Novas over to Camden better than riding a NABI on SEPTA.
I know that once in a while they substituted a Neoplan for a NABI on Radnor trips, and I saw one going to Paoli, although that is truly extremely rare, and what type of buses do they use on the 92 and 133? I always thought they used NABIs on the 92, I mean, when I went to King of Prussia last year, they had been using one that was going to Pheonixville (I think i spelled that incorrectly). Also, about how he would be less satisfied, let me tell you that before that time, he has NEVER ridden a bus in his life, other than a school bus, and I doubt he has even seen a transit bus other than a SEPTA Neoplan or the Flxibles and Orions in the city. Also, I'll have you know that when I rode bus 5322 I happened to enjoy that ride. The only thing that I didn't, and that he might not like, is that the seats are too hard, and he would be impressed by the voice announcement system. About the Nova Buses, he probably would have been slightly interested, if at all, that the buses were of a different shape. What I mean by how new the new RTSs were, I meant what model years were they that were new on the New York fleet, because I thought the newest RTSs were the 1994 Novabuses. Also, do the Nova's have the voice announcement system installed?
The Nova buses in NYCT are from years 1996-1999. The 1994 RTS is a TMC which was made from 1987-1994 for NYCT. Everything prior to 1987 is a GMC. The Nova's have a system installed called "speak easy" where the operator records the route number and destination, which is digitally saved and announced by the external speaker whenever the front doors are opened. Right now it is our option if we want to use the device. I always use it if I am doing a short trip. For instance on the Q85,the last stop is Bedell & Farmers blvd. I use it so people will be alert to the fact that I am not going all the way to Green Acres Mall or Rosedale.
BIG AL
Finally, bus #9264 arrived today at Jamaica depot and already has had our logos installed. Should be in service in another day or two. The foreman told me today that 2 more are coming in shortly. Could this finally be the beginning of the end for Jamaica's 1700's? Also, they have started taking parts off of 1746. (Sorry RTS 2150!)
Lastly, 4355 also could be permanently down for the count. Today I noticed it is sitting along the wall with the farebox removed and the third brake light in the rear was also snatched out. I"ll be shifting buses tomorrow, so I'll get more on the low down on what buses are going to be scrapped next.
BIG AL
Did it have a new coat of paint on it? I saw 9262 and another 9200 express at ENY a couple of weeks ago.
Yes, it has a fresh coat of paint installed on it. So far, all the Nova expresses we have received in from other depots have had new paint on them.
BIG AL
Cannibals...CANNIBALS!!!!! Maybe 1746 will live on, or at least parts of her. But, let me to you people at Jamaica Depot this, you're some murderers, some murdereres, SOME MUR-DIDDLY-URDLERS!!!!!
Cannibals...CANNIBALS!!!!! Maybe 1746 will live on, or at least parts of her. But, let me tell you people at Jamaica Depot this, you're some murderers, some murdereres, SOME MUR-DIDDLY-URDLERS!!!!!
Why don't you change your handle to keep the fond memory of 1746? Well, since the Novas are coming in in a fury, I better get to ride 1747, 1752, 1755 or 1844 1 last time tomorrow before they're as part of history. As of now, I'll try getting 1747. If not then I'll take 3573.
X63#1747Gary
Today, 12/19, 3 more Novas arrived directly from Ulmer Park. Buses 9257, 9258 and 9259. These buses did not come from the CMF with new paint jobs. We also have 9264 which arrived last week. So let's see which of the 1700's will be biting the bullet next. I'll keep you guys posted.
BIG AL
Yesterday I mentioned I would find out what was going to be scrapped next. Well, today bus #4139 was put out to pasture. Reason: too much smoke. All decals and logos have already been scraped off. Now for the really big news. Anybody betting on 1755 as being the last surviving bus might want to change their bet. I was told it is the next bus in line to be scrapped! I personally saw it today running on the X64, but these are for sure her final days.
BIG AL
Gary's going to be crushed. I was betting 1740 was going to be the next to go. Oh well, as long as 1767 is up and running.
They might as well have scrapped 1755 when they had her transmission out.
Looks like I'm going to have to find a new Yahoo chatroom handle...HA! I think I did predict 1755 as the next to go. She just sounds old and outdated.
X68-PA1767 Jason
Another Jamaica depot update. 9261 just arrived in also from Ulmer Park depot. Today,express bus #3572 was scrapped and stripped of all her markings. And for some more bad news for RTS2150. 1746 was finally hauled off today to the great scrap yard in the sky. (Thank God!)
It's even off today's inventory sheet already. However RTS2150 should like my next post about the remaining 1700's.
BIG AL
Looks like she'll be doing commuter service for old St. Peter....
Well, all of these buses have g2g sometime. I'm crushed that 1755 is gone, but I'm happy she was my last 1982 Express Suburban RTS Ride that I took and she was a real treat. I'll never ride another 1982 Suburban RTS again as 1755 will always be in my memory just like so:
Long live 1755-in my opinion.
X64#1755Gary
OK, here's the scoop on 4355 at Jamaica depot. It has a major oil leak in the engine someplace and transit hasn't decided if they want to fix it or scrap it. Right now it's in limbo just sitting along the wall.
Also, since the arrival of 9264, still nothing else has been scrapped. So it looks like the rest of the 1700's are living on borrowed time.
BIG AL
Just as long as 1755 is the last one out-I won't mind at all. I bet that 3572-3573, 3575, 3833, 3865, 3869, 3874 and 3967 have their days numbered too-unless 3967 goes back to QV? We shall soon see.
Q46#3967Gary-
PS I remember her days there-I rode on her. 3965 too.
3967 will never go back to Q.V. because since they already have 3900 series hard seaters, there would be to much confusion having one as a soft seater. That is why none of the buses that were converted to soft seaters went back to the depots where they originated from.
BIG AL
So I guess that there is no hope that 4742 will return to FP after UP is through abusing it!
That reminds me, how many depots has 3965 been at? I've ridden on it while it's been at JG, and I've heard it's been at UP and QV...
dont forget yukon where it arrived in 3/98 along with 3964 and 3966-68. 3963 was at castleton for a long time. all have since left for edgewater or other depots.
3965 was a stengel original in its local days
i believe they had 3901-3984
They did because ENY had 3985-4070 and FP had 4071-4150? til they ended up giving 4111-4150 to HP
FP originally had 4071-4151.
For the record the actual bus #'s were 4071-4151. Sent to Manhattan were:4113-4152.
You are right, except that 3900 was the first there.
Ur right about 3900.
The first one i actually saw in service was 3910 on a night run on the then VP. The first one i was on was 3930.
And now they're both scrapped. I remember getting 3910 and 3930 on the Q46-now they bite the dust. I bet that 3914 and 3946 are the next 2 buses to go. We should have another contest: who will be the last 1985 RTS? I sat it'll be 3967 out of Jamaica. She looked mighty fine when I saw her on Monday at 108 St and HH Expwy.
Q46#3967Gary-yep pre-Jamaica days!
It's perfectly normal to have bus dreams. I've done it all my life. Shortly after the Grumman 870s came to our town in 1979, I had dreams (sometime around 1982) that the 82 model Grummans would be much smaller and have really ugly pointed front ends and plain black wheels and they were emerging from a strange new bus station downtown. The actual 82 Grumman buses looked just the same as the 79s (and the later Flxible Metros followed suit) but what I saw in my dream later materialized (to the tee, no less) as the current Grumman mail vans used nationwide by the USPS. Also, that strange new bus station later became the Campbell Court bus station....five years later in 1987, at the same location as my dream! Talk about irony.
By the way, nothing about dreams has anything to do with determination of age; this whole freaky dream occured when I was 5 years old.
Keep dreaming, my brother; there's nothing wrong with it!
-Fred
Here's another weird bus dream for you; shortly after Valley Metro (Roanoke, VA) began slowly replacing its Flxible New Looks with Gillig Phantoms (numbered 210-214) in 1988, I began to have another strange dream. Suddenly it was mid-1989 and I saw a few weird-looking new buses rolling down Franklin Road (a main drag leadinng into Downtown) with strange looks and concluding numbers, 217 and 219. These were Silver Eagle road coaches (!) painted up in the newer Valley Metro paint scheme and they were adorned with gaudy statuesque ornaments mounted on the rear roofs. One featured a gold-plated Cherubic agnel and the other a greenish gargoyle statue. I could not believe they were replacing the Flxibles with these rolling sacks of excess!
Eventually the numbers came up later (in 1991) when the Grumman 870s were repainted and renumbered 211-223 to match the newer Gilligs. As for the gaudy Silver Eagles that supplanted the New Looks, they eventually surfaced in reality as Gillig Phantoms numbered 429-438 (in 1991) and 9401-9405 (in 1994).
This dream took place when I was 11 years old, once again disproving assumed teen maturity theories.
-Fred
Here's a recent bus dream; over the summer I dreamed I was riding downtown with a lady friend of mine on a bus in my museum that has yet to be restored, a 1976 Flxible New Look from Valley Metro (my favorite bus in the museum as I grew up in it). We were riding downtown in the back of the bus, the weather was sunny, the 6v71 was running great, but something was amiss; the girl and I were in deep conversation, and she (who is really a sweet girl and quite enjoyable company in real life) was being really apathetic and hateful, which is not like her at all. When she finally drove me to a snapping point in the dream, I was getting ready to verbally chew her out loudly and suddenly I was awake and the dream was over. i don't know what that signifies, but it goes to prove that bus dreams are normal and yes, we too dream about girls just as any other red-blooded boy that has ever breathed.
-F.
It may also have been at Casey Stengel, when it was still called Flushing Depot.
Sitting here at the comp, listening in to DOB radio freqs, appears there are some fueling problems at gleason, causing them to send buses to Command for fuel. I believe i heard something like 40 buses they are sending. At 11pm, a dispatcher at Command reported to Supt Buffone that 9 buses were waiting at command (824 was one # i heard)and they were having fuel difficulties too.
Command's facility is rather small, so if the problem persists the drivers are going to get a lot of OT waiting in line there.
Mr t__:^)
This is the reason why JG should not be ALL CNG! Every few months this is gonna happen?! And what happens if the CNG Tanks blow again? Then what-get the buses from South Brooklyn Storage to do extra service? I know that'll NEVER happen, but just to think about it. Haven;t heard Command, TCC or QS having those type of problems-why is JG having them?
Shit happens Gary ... we have to keep on top of our filling station, e.g. filters, seperators, O-rings, hoses, etc.
The TA has commited to, I think, only three CNG garages. That says to me that they should be able to round up enough old RTS, etc. coaches to provide min. service in the even of a CNG problem.
At this depot we now have too many of them, so keep your fingers crossed that shit doesn't happen here.
Mr t__:^)
And even though LIB has alot of problems, fueling isn't one of them .
Fortunately had a new 300 series Orion on the way home, ran pretty good. Also alot of the LI Buses are now saying HAPPY HOLIDAY when OOS.
They have a large high speed system with, I think, four lanes.
Mr t__:^)
I went to the Transit world website yesterday and was delighted to find some more bus sounds (thanks to Mr. Pretlow and the rest of the crew). Among them was a beautiful recording of a Grumman 870, bringing back those 1997 afternoons on MTA-Houston 1666. Most surprising however were recordings of NYC RTS buses 86xx and 9140. I was dissapointed to see the 8600 bus had a Series 50 engine and I didn't even want to hear the Cummins. But, being the RTS fanatic I am, curiosity took hold of me and I downloaded both recordings and was surprised to hear that both engines were reminiscent of the old 6v92TAs. The Series 50 in the TMC sounded like a blending of the old 6v92 and the modern "truck like" engines making a beautiful post modern sound. I was most surprised by the Cummins however, which had previously ruined the sound of the Flxible and the Novas in NJ. The Cummins sounded like a super futuristic type RTS bus which left me hungry for more. I hope DeShawn can catch 9140 on a nice fast stretch so I can hear what this engine can really do. I know that people here give the Cummins engines lots of flack but it sounded nice in that bus. Also, I listened to a recording of a 51xx Nova and zeroed into it's heritage so well hidden by that Series 50 DDEC VI engine. Now, I love ALL RTS buses equally (except those Novas in NJ, they have the look but the engine is ugh!).
I am very glad you liked the sounds and that these sounds gave you a more in depth view of the RTS and other buses as well. I am with you in terms of engines and sounds. My favorites are the old Detroit Diesels, the 6v-71 and 6v-92's. The Series 50 and 60 are not bad for the new kids on the block. I will try to get that 9140 on a good strech for everyone to hear very soon. The Cummins M11E is very nice, and for me am not a Cummins engine fan but that M11E gets my respect. LOLOLOL.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
IMHO, any engine that Detroit Diesel releases seems to me that they sound like that they have more power than The Cummins. I admit that the 6V92TA has a nice sound to it when coupled to an Allison 5-speed automatic, but are god-awful when coupled to a ZF (the main reason why I prefer the 8000-series Neoplans over the 3000-series), but even their series 50 (a 4-cylinder version of the 60) has more torque and horsepower than The Cummins 6-cylinder. Stick any DD and an Allison into the back of an RTS, and you'll have beautiful music.
AMEN! and well said!
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
If you are talking about the SEPTA Neoplans, I happen to like the sound of the 3000 series neoplans. Sure, it's not exactly the smoothest takeoff (the 8000 series dont' have the smoothest takeoff either though), but it's fun to sorta cue the gear change (it's sorta hard to describe) anyway, that's my favorite engine.
I loved the Grumman 6v71 recording. The engine sounded so beautiful that I listened to it over and over again. Aaaah, that sweet music and I wish they sell that sound track at stores- it is guaranteed to fly off the shelves LOL!!!! The Grumman however lacked the sweet sounding power steering noise/whine that RTS's have. I wonder if that is an RTS trademark that no one else can copy?
I agree that there is some of that two stroke 6v92 sound in the four stroke RTS's. Sounded nice and it is great knowing that RTS heritage is preserved even though that stupid environmental law banned two strokes on new busses. If I was president of these United States, I would repeal the law.
Now I wish that there was a recording of the RTS 6v71N in that site. Unfortunately, you guys in the city do not run it anymore.
Also I listened to MCI Classic and RTS. How come when both busses have the exact same engine and transmission, the MCI labors hard when accelerating while the RTS does the same with no sweat?
Environmental laws unfairly target buses. Buses aren't even a major source of air pollution, cars are. Yet cars (and now SUV's) are getting away with it because of the car-friendly culture of the United States.
Exactly!!! Where was Clinton (the so-called environment president) when the sales of SUV's were off the charts? How come there are no standards for them? But there are for busses, when so few of them are on the road?
SUV's should be banned, or at the least classified as trucks instead of cars, that way they won't be allowed on parkways, and not be sold as cars. Once the yuppie mother who never goes camping can't drive on the parkway, her SUV will be history. Unfortunately in America, the wealthy and powerful auto industry controls our government, not the people. Just another example of how the rich few control the destiny of many.
An example is right here in Nassau. We got CNG buses because car drivers were complaining about bus fumes. CNG buses cost almost twice as much as diesels, not to mention the costs of CNG fueling installation. We could've gotten more buses (and more service) if we stuck to diesel, but no, the rich car driving yuppie has his say, we don't!
It's true! It's true! Some of our RTS buses down here have EPA engines. RTS 2137 is one of them. Buses only spew diesel if they're old or poorly maintained, or both. Go after those ugly square box Japanese cars that spew tons of that horrilbe blue exhaust. Leave buses alone!
Just think, if Nassau county actually had a brain we wouldn't have given into all the yuppies and envirofreaks and gotten an all diesel RTS fleet!! RTS's may cost less than Orions, and they are better buses so service would've been reliable and frequent. Instead we have to suffer with the Orions, and that puts a dent in reliability!
I think RTS buses do cost less than Orions and are a better bus. People just want something that looks revolutionary. I guess people feel that a box pollutes less than a real bus, but oh well. The people complaining about the bus fumes in Nassau probably never ride the bus anyway and use their forever polluting cars, but oh well.
I'm not anti-car or anti-SUV, I just hate that environmentalists go after buses of all things after encouraging mass tranist improvements for so long.
I don't want SUVs banned however. They're not too bad down here in Texas. There are a lot of them, but not overly difficult to deal with. I might buy an SUV myself someday, but I feel it's a bit foolish to have one in NYC if you're not going to do much traveling beyond the NE Corridor. A simple Lexus or BMW would suffice if you're going to refuse to ride mass transit.
I never wanted SUV's banned. Just establish standards for them. Fortunately Ford will introduce a hybrid Escape for 2003. I use my car a lot and I have no choice since there I comute from the Keys to Miami a few days a week.
Back to busses I thought RTS would be expensive due to popularity, but now it is probably cheaper due to less popularity. I want someone to post prices on different busses now and then so I can see the price difference between busses. I am willing to bet that Gilligs are the cheapest busses out there. Or better yet, school bus based transits like Blue Bird, or Thomas.
There is no "fixed price" for any type of transit bus. You can't just walk into New Flyer with a bag of bills totalling $250K and walk away with a bus.
Cost of individual units depends on several factors:
First, the features of a bus can influence the cost greatly. While the bus companies themselves are not directly responsible for added extras like voice annunciator systems, high-end destination signs, and other components, these items are generally included in the overall cost of a bus.
Second, the type of order placed. If I were running a small transit system, I could get buses a lot less expensive and a lot quicker by taking buses with the same features of those of a larger order from a larger TA.
For these reasons, the prices of buses of the exact same model vary greatly. I have my 1999 APTA Transit Vehicle Data Book handy, and it lists costs for individual vehicles.
NYC Transit's 4900 series NovaBUSes (1999 - RTS T80 206) cost $256,994 each.
Down in Nashville, their 1999 buses of the exact same model number cost $244,326 each.
I would bet that it's safe to say that Gillig buses are usually the least expensive, but for all intents and purposes, an amount in the neighborhood of $250,000 can get you a standard-featured 40 foot bus from any of the major manufacturers.
Neil
And John, I hear all these bad things about those Cummins L10 CNG, along with bad maintenance, and no air conditioning. Wonder how LI BUS will do this winter. Wonder how CNG will do this winter.
>>>I loved the Grumman 6v71 recording. The engine sounded so beautiful that I listened to it over and over again. Aaaah, that sweet music and I wish they sell that sound track at stores- it is guaranteed to fly off the shelves LOL!!!! The Grumman however lacked the sweet sounding power steering noise/whine that RTS's have. I wonder if that is an RTS trademark that no one else can copy?<<<
Yes, it was beautiful. My fantasy is to be riding a Grumman through the suburbs of NYC with a beautiful girl and the sweet music of the Grumman to set the mood. But, my odd romantic fantasies aside, that recording brought back many memories of our old 1600 series Grumman rehabs. They were horrible buses in term of maintenence, but that engine made them my favorite buses in the fleet. Then, they were retired in the fall of 1997. I was crushed. Yes, I have noticed that noise the RTS buses have when turning. But have you noticed that deep bass groan in some of them, it can be beautiful. But the best RTS is one witn no groan, just the sweet whine of the engine.
>>>I agree that there is some of that two stroke 6v92 sound in the four stroke RTS's. Sounded nice and it is great knowing that RTS heritage is preserved even though that stupid environmental law banned two strokes on new busses. If I was president of these United States, I would repeal the law.<<<
Damn the EPA. Why go after buses first? I'd repeal it too.
>>>Now I wish that there was a recording of the RTS 6v71N in that site. Unfortunately, you guys in the city do not run it anymore.<<<
I've never heard an RTS with that engine before. It must sound interesting.
>>>Also I listened to MCI Classic and RTS. How come when both busses have the exact same engine and transmission, the MCI labors hard when accelerating while the RTS does the same with no sweat?<<<
Simple, it's an RTS. The best there was (sans the New Look), there best there is, and the best there ever will be.
You are so funny. I love your posts.
The 75xx RTS recording had a light, but noticeable bass sound at a certain engine speed. When I was in the city in spring 1999, some RTS's I heard and/or rode on sounded really deep that I thought there was an engine problem. I do not recall the fleet numbers.
As for the EPA- where was Clinton during the SUV revolution? I personally oppose SUV due to the fact it consumes more gas. Also busses are more efficent per person than SUV's no matter what engine it has.
NYC had 6v71N RTS's and they are many 1981 and all 1983's I believe. Miami-Dade used to have them, as well. I miss them!!! Also Boston may still run them, but I am not sure.
3009 was the last 1983 RTS in service with the 6v71N. It's awaiting the scrap yard now however.
Thanks for the compliments.
Houston used to run 152 RTS II-01s with the old 6v71Ns. I got on one at school back in second grade which was about 1992, their last year in service. I don't remember the fleet number but I just remember it had an elegant sloping back, the coolest thing I ever saw, and it had TVs inside. It looked huge. It smelled like mothballs though. It never went anywhere. We just watched a movie about drugs inside of it. It was a police bus. I'll check and see if they still have it.
The health of our enviroment should be more important to you than the sound of an engine. Numerous studies have shown that heavy trucks and buses are the leading cause of air pollution today. Any technical innovations which cause their engines to run cleaner and emit less pollutants is a benefit to us all. As much as I like buses I like fresh clean air even more.
But the quality of diesel fuel is getting better and better all the time.
Also I wonder if you can modify a 6v92TA to run on CNG?
I think so. Houston modified three RTS buses with that type of engine to run on LNG.
And how is that? I mean do you get the same sound and reliability as the diesel versions? Is LNG very expensive compared to diesel? What mods did the transit company make?
The three RTS buses converted were 2114-2116. 2115 sounded just like a regular RTS bus with a VERY deep engine roar over the regular whine. 2114 and 2116 like RTS 9140, you can listen to it at Transit World if you haven't yet. Anyway when accelerating they'd run regular but if the driver let up, they'd just shift gears. Sometimes they'd go through the whole cycle by 20mph. 2115 began to do this at the end of her life as well.
2115 was in service the most, 2114 spent alot of her life at Stewart and Stevenson, and you could go at least three months without seeing 2116. They spent alot of time at out of service.
They used Detroit Diesel engines, but I don't remember EXACTLY the engine but I'm almost sure it was the 6v92TA. At the end of the engine designation it said PING. I don't know what that means.
LNG was very expensive. They scrapped the program. By now, every bus was supposed to be powered by LNG. They were planning to convert all the RTS and 120 of the Flxibles. The only got three RTS and zero Flxibles. We currently have about 200 buses that are equipped to use LNG, but they use diesel. We only have 5 LNG only buses; L40LFs 4102-4103 and then 5 CNG buses; C40LFs 4097-4101.
NJT is transferring 3 bus routes (322 Meadowlands to Manhattan, 323 Holmdel to Manhattan, and 61 Monmouth Beach to Newark) to Academy on Jan 1. Story in Star-Ledger.
Those lines are already operated by Academy under the banner of NJ Transit contract lines. This just simply transfers the routing rights to Academy, so there really isn't much of a change.
IIRC, this is exactly what they did with the #300 Newark Airport - PABT line a few years ago. The service still exists, but now Coach USA/Olympia Trails operates it as a stand alone route.
Please update and make corrections--
Q25
Poppenhusen and 119 st via Poppenhursen,119 st,9 av,Clllege Point,7 Av (ret via 7 Av,College Pt,5 av ,Poppenhusen Avenue to 119 av,to stand)
7 av ,127 st,23 av,130 st,Ulmer St,28 av,Linden Place,Northern Blvd,,Main St ,Kissena Blvd,,Parsons Blvd,Jmaica Av,160 st to stand
Return via 160 ,90 Av,etc
College Blvd Trips --College Pt Blvd ,15 av,127 st,etc
Flushing Turnaround via Main,39 Av,Prince St,Roosevelt Av
Jewell Av Turnarounds via Melbourne Av 150 st,Jewell AvKissena ,Facing North or Kissena,71 av,150 st, Jewell Av,Kssena ,facing North
Q34 same South of Flushing area
Northern Blvd,Linden Place,32 av,29 Road,137 st,Whitestone South Service Road, 28 Road,28 Av,Union St,Willets Pt Blvd,Turnaround in Island East f 149 st
Return same to 28 Av,28 Road,139 st,31 Raod,138 St
QUEENSBORO BRIDGE SHUTTLE
59 st at 2 av via 59 st,Bridge,Queensboro Plaza South ,stand,,return via 28 st,40 Road,Jackson Av,Queens Blvd,Plaza North ,Bridge,,60 st,2 Av 59 st
Q65
110 St nr 15 Av via 110 st,15 Av,College Pt Blvd,Northern Blvd,Main St,,Kissena Blvd,Sanford Av,Bowne St,45 Av,Parsons Blvd,45 Av,162 st,Pidgeon Meadow Road,,164 st, Hillside Av,Parsons Blvd,Jamaica Av,160 st to stand
Return via 160 st,90 av,Hillside Av,164 st,46 Av,162 st,45 av,Parsons Blvd,45 Av,Bowne St,Sanford Av,Kissena Blvd,Main St,Northern Blvd,College Pt ,14 Road,,111 st,14 Av,110 St,,to stand
Q65A
Jewel Av at 164 st via Jewel Av,69 Road,108 St,end at 70 Road,.then Queens Blvd,,Start at 70 Road,,,then Queens Blvd,Jewel Av,Parsons Blvd,71 Av,,end at 164 st,,,,return via 164 st,,Jewel to start trips
Q66
Roosevelt and Main st via Main St,Northern Blvd
WOODSIDE TRIPS
to Broadway,51 st stand
Return via 51 st Nortern Blvd and Start via Nortern Main St,39 Av,Prince St,ROosevelt Av,Main st and Stand
Northern Blvd,35 Av,21 st ,,to 41 Av IND ..
Turnaround via 21 st,Queens Plaza South ,,23 st,Queens Plaza North 21 st to 41 Av IND
Revenue via 21 st,35 Av,42 st,,Norerthern Blvd to Flushing
Q67
Queensboro Plaza South at 27 via Q P South ,28 st,42 Road,Jackson Av,44 Drvie,21 st,49 av,27 st--
Retr via 21 st,Queensboro Plaza South to 27 st---
27 st,Borden Av55 av,58 st,,LIE ,Maurice Av,53 Drive,65 Place,Return via Metro Av,69 st,Grand Av,Hamilton Place,65 Place,53 Drive,,Maurice Av,LIE, 58 St,,Etc
Q66
Flushing Turnaround via 39 Av,Prince St,Roosevelt Av
Q69
From Ferry Terminal AM RH via Terminal West of 2 st at 54 av,,thern via 54 Av,2 st,Borden ,27 st,Hunters Pt Av,,49 av,21 st,50 Av,Jackson Av,Vernon Blvd,Borden Av,2 St into Terminal
PM RH via 54 Av,2 St,Borden Av,Vernon Blvd,Jackson Av,21 st,49 av,Hunters Pt Av,27 st,Borden Av,2 Street,into Ferry Terminal
Q101 LTD
Queensboro Plaza Turnaround
from 21 St via 21 St,Queensboro South ,,stand at 27 st,,ret via Q P South ,28 st,42 Road,23 St,Q P North ,21 st
Q101 Ltd
via 21 st,Astoria Blvd Steinway St,20 Av ,Hazen St Bridge..
Return via Bridge,,20 av,Steinway St,Hoyt Av,21 St..
alternate via 20 av,21 st
Q101 East 59 st at 2 Av via East 59 st,Bridge,Queens Plaza ,28 st,42 Road,Jackson Av,Northern Blvd,,Steinway st, 20 av,Hazen St Bridge
Return via Bridge,,20 Av,Steinway,St,Northern Blvd,Queensboro North Plaza,Bridge,60 st,2 av,59st
19 and Steinway Turnaround
Steinway ,20 av,41 st,19 av,Steinway to stand,,Return via Steinway Av to Manhattan
19 Av and Hazen St Turnaround
via Steinway ,20 av,49 st,19 av to Hazen..
Return via hazen ,20 Av,Steinway st
Q102
Astoria 4 st
via 4 st ,,Counterclockwise around Loop,,Then via Astoria Blvd,Newtown Road,,Cresent St,30 Av,31 st,Queensboro Plaza North ,21 st,41 av,Vernon Blvd,36 Av Roosevelt Island Bridge
Byrd Coller,Goldwater Hospital and Return
or
Goldwater ,Byrd Coller and Return Via Main St
Returning via Roosevelt Island Bridge,,36 Av,Vernon Blvd,41 Av,21 st,Queensboro Plaza South,,28 st,42 Road,,Jackson Av,Northern Blvd,,31 st,30 Av,,Crsent StNewton Road,Astoria Blvd,4 st,to Loop inside Projects
Q103 Hunters Pt Ferry
Vernon Blvd,Borden Av,2 St into Ferry
Return via Ferry ,54 Av,2 st,Borden Av, Vernon Blvd
Q103 Borden Av
Vernon Blvd at Borden Av,then via Borden Av,Vernon Blvd,50 Av Jct,Vernon Blvd,41 Av,21 st,40 Av,Veron Blvd,Main Avenue,8 St,Astoria Blvd,4 st Counterclockwise around Loop to stand
Q104
34 av at the 10 st Terminal via 34 av,11 st,Broadway ,48 st,Northern Blvd,48 st,to Queens Blvd North
Return Via QueenS Blvd North,,47 st,43 Av,48 st,Northern Blvd,Newtown Road,Broadway ,Vernon Blvd,34 av
QBX 1
Flushing
(Loop via 39 av,Prince St ,Roosevelt,Main ,stand ifo Wiz)
Main st,Northern Blvd,Linden Place,Whitestone Ex,Bronx Whitestone Bridge,Lafayette Av,Brush Av,Bruckner Blvd (ret via Bruckner ,Hutchinson ,Whitestone)
Bruckner Blvd,NET.
Palmer Av,Erskine Place,Earhart Lane,Hunter Av,Hutch East,Boller Av,,Bartow Av,Asch Loop Coop City Blvd Dreiser Loop DeFoe Place,Return via Terminal ,Wilkenson Av,Bruckner Blvd,NET,Baychester Av,Coop ,Dreiser Loop ,DeFoe Place,Coop City ,Asch Loop,Alcott Place,Bartow Av,Hutch East,Boller Av,Hunter Av,Earhart Lane,Erskine Place,,Bruckner Blvd
Route Pattern is
FLushing,,Pelham Bay Station ,,Coop City ,Westchester Av
Ret Westchester Av,Coop City ,back to Flushing
Shuttle Pattern is
Pelham Westchester Av,,via coop City back to Westchester Av Statio
Bellamy Loop Pattern
Coop City ,,Dreiser Loop,Coop City Blvd,Counterclockwise around Bellamy Loop
Flushing,Westchester Av Station ,Coop City ,Bellamy
and return to Flushing
Bellamy Loop Shuttles
Westchester Av Station to Bellamy
and Return
Section 5 Pelham Bay Station Route
Westchester Av ,,NET,Baychester Av,Bartow (AM)Hutchinson East,Boller,,Hunter,Earhart Lnae,Erskine,back to Westhchester Av Staton
Return back via Palmer,Erskine,Earhart ,Hunter,Boller,Hutch East,Bartow,Coop City ,Asch Loop Bartow,,Edson to Westchesr Av Station
Early AM Buses running via Baychester use Bartow,Asch,Coop City ,Bartow to Boller Hunter,,etc
Asch Loop Shuttle
Weschester Av Pelham Bay Staton ,,Baychester,Bartow,Coop City ,Asch,Alcott Place,Bartow,Edsonback to Staton
EXPRESS ROUTES QUEENS SECTIONS ONLY
The Manhattan Sections are very detailed ,,
QM1 A EXT
LIE Queens Blvd,Uniion Tpke,,Lakeville Road,Marcus Av,,Loop Around North Shore Towers Parking Lot ,Counter Clockwise
after 9 Pm ,,use far Western Gate nr Bldg 1
Return via same ,Union Tpke,Queens Blvd,,Woodhaven Blvd,LIE
QM 1
Union Tpke,188 st,69 av Loop ,188 St,64 Av Loop
FRESH MEADOWS
or
188 st,73 Av,Springfield Blvd,Horace Harding Exp,Easthampton Blvd,,West Alley Road,Douglteston Parkway ,Little Neck Pwy ,260 st,74 Av Loop,260 st,,Union Tpke ,,Sit in Island
at 258 st
Return via 79 Av,260 st
Also Buses to North Shore Towers via Little Neck P,and Union Tpke
Qm 2 Midtown
from Queensboro Bridge,Queens Blvd,Northern Blvd, 114 st Entrance to Van Wyck,,Linden Place Exit,Whitestone ,14 av,CIP,160 st,Powells Cove Blvd,166 st,14 av,Utopia Pkwy,Bell Blvd,212 st,18 av,211 st,23 av,to stand at Blvd Blvd
Loop via Bell Blvd turnaound at 202 st Northside
Return via Bell ,23 av Pickup Pt,211 ,18 av,212 Bell Blvd,Utopia ,Cross Isl ,166 st,Powells Cover,160 CIp
PM Buses via Utopia ,Bell,212 st,Bell Blvd to 23 av
Buses to City Via Van Wyck to LIE to Midtown Tunnel
QM 2A
same via Whitestone Expressway ,,then 137 st,29 Road,31 Road,139 st ,28 Road,28 Av,Union St,WIllets Pt Blvd (ret via 28 Rd,139 st,31 Rd,Linden Place,Whitestone)Utopia Pwy ,26 Av,Corp Kennedy ,23 av to Bell Blvd
turnaround via Bell ,,to 202 st
Westbound Turnarounds via Corp Kennedy ,,211 st,westobund on 23 av
QM 3
Manhattan
Norterhn Blvd,Little Neck Parkway to Nassau Blvd
turnaround via Little Neck ,Horace Harding Service ,Nassau Blvd,,Little Neck ,Northern Blvd,Van Wck,LIE
Qm 4
Manhattan ,Queen Blvd, Jewel Av,164 st,to LIE
Return via
164 st,Jewel Av,69 Road,Queens Blvd,Woodhaven ,LIE
The Manhattan Routings are very detailed,,will be omitted here
Queens Surface Corp. home 337 buses staffed by friendly & helpful drivers ... SERVICE is our middle name ;-)
For more information our web site
Was just a on-line version of our schedule, now being re-done into something more ... note hot links to the web site of the other "privates" and nycDOT.
Mr t__:^)
There is no more Queensboro bridge shuttle, north side is ped's 24/7 now.
That's right ... been about a couple of months now since it happened.
Mr t__:^)
On the Harlem River Drive today I saw Orion #6083 out of Mother Hale on the M98 Limited. I thought all M98 service went through Micheal J. Quill?
Possible it was the last bus of the day and it was closer to get a bus from Hale instead of Quill
Thank You
I saw 6000 on the M3 near Union Square. Is 6000 the first felt seated Orion to arrive for NYCTA?
had to be on either the M1 or M7 route. #6000 operates out of Mother Hale depot and the M3 is from Manhattanville depot.
Please make corrections or any notations to me
I am not doing the Manhattan Portions of the Express Routes
Q18
Main Av and 8 St via Main av,8 st,27 av,14 st,30 Av,Hobart Av,51 st Broadway 58 st,Woodside Av, 65 Place
Woodside Buses via 58 st,Woodside av,61 st to statnd at Roosevelt...Return via 61 st,Roosevelt,Woodside Av ,,58 st
Broadway ,58 st,Woodside Av,65 Place 50 av,69 st,53 Av,65 Place,Hamilton Place,Grand Av,69 st and stand be the North and southbound service Roads on 69 st..
Return via 69 st,Jay Av,65 Place,53 Av,69 st,65 Place,Woodside Av,61 st,Roosevelt Av,Woodside Av,58 st,Broadway,54 st,Hobart Av,30 Av,Main av to stand
Q19
103 st and Astoria Blvd via 103 st,31 av,101 St,,80.79 st,,Hoyt Av North ,21 St,Astoria Blvd to Stand
Return via Astoria Blvd,Newtown Av,23 st,Astoria Blvd,,103 st
Q19A
82 st and Ditmars Blvd via 82 st,Astoria Blvd,78 st,Ditmars Blvd,21 st,Bridge Plaza South ,28 st,42 Rd,Jackson Av and Stand
Return via Jackson Av,44 Drive,21 st,Ditmars Blvd,82 st
Q19B
103 St and Astoria Blvd via 103 st,31 Av,101 st,Astoria Blvd,92 st,32 Av,90 st,35 Av,73 st,37 Rd,75 st into the Victor Moore Bus Terminal
Reutrn via Broadway 74 st,35 Av,89 st,Astoria Blvd,103 st,to stand
Q23
Ditmars Blvd NW of 23 Av via Ditmars Blvd,,,Counterclockwise around the Ciricle,,23 Av,Ditmars Blvd,29 Av,102 st,,37 Av,104 st,43 Av,108 st,71 Av--Continental Av,Austin St,Yellowstone Blvd,Burnes St,69 Av,Loubet St,72 Av,Metropo Av,Woodhaven BLv,,Union Tpke,into Cutaway at Cresent Apts.
Return via Union Tpke,71 Av,Kessell St,69 Av,Burnes St,Yellowstone Blvd,Austin St,71 Av,108 st,,43 Av,102 St,National St,103 St,32 Av,101 St,Aastoria Blvd,29 Av,Ditmars Blvd to North of 23 Av
62 Drive /108 st Trips
from Metro via 108 st,63 Rd,110 St-Colonial Av,62 Dr Layover,,Return into stand via Left onto 108 st
71 Av/Metro Trips
via Loubet,72 Av,Metro Av to Stand at 71 Av,,Ret via Right on to 71 Av
Q29
83 St at Roosevelt av via 83 st,Roosevelt Av,82 st,Baxter Av (Alternate via 82 Ithaca St,Whitney Av),Hampton st,91 Place at 43 Av,Corona Av,92 St, 57 Av,Queens Blvd Hoffman Drive Woodhaven Blvd,at Alderton St --Dry Harbour Rd,80 st at Furmanville Av,80 st,,Myrtle Av,81 st to stand
Return via 81 st,78 Av,80 st,Dry Harbour Rd,Woodhaven Blvd,,Queens Blvd90 St,,Corona Av,91 Place,Hampton St 83 St to Roosevelt Av
Queens Bvd Buses from Myrtle Av
Woodhaven Blvd at, ,Queens Blvd...Return via Queens Blvd,90 st,57 Av,Queens blv,Woodhaven to Stand
or Make left onto Queens Blvd,U turn under LIE,and Left on Woodhave Blvd
Q33
Laguardia Airport..94st 23 Av,85 st24 Av,Astoria Blvd82 st,Roosevelt Blvd.75 st,,into the Victor Moore Bus Terminal
Return via Broadway ,Roosevelt Av,83 st.
AStoria Blvd Buses make left on Astoria Blvd ,82 st
Astoria Blvd,85 st,23 Av ,,94 st into Airport
23 Av Trips
85 st,23 aV,95 ST,Ditmars Blvd,left onto 23 Av to Stand
Q38
60 Av at Otis Av via 60 av,Otis Av,Horace Harding Westbound Service Road,99 St,Chrystie Av,98 st,57 av,90 st,Hoffman Dr Queens Blvd,Woodhaven Blvd,Elliot Av,Fresh Pond ,Metro Av,,69 st Juniper Valley Road,
(69 st trips end or start here on 69 st),75 Place,Furmanville Av,77 Place,Penelope Av,63 Drive at Woodhaven Blvd,63 Rd at Queens Blvd,,110 st 62 Drive to stand
Some end t 108 st
Return via 62 Drive,Queens Blvd,63 Dr,Penelope Av,78 St,Furmanville Av,75 Place,Juniper Valley Rd,Metro ,Fresh Pond Rd,Elliot Av,,Woodhaven Blvd
59 Av,92 st,57 av,98 st,Chrytstie Av,99 st,60 Av to Otis
Woohdaven Blvd frmo Metro
Buses end at Woodhaven and Queens Blvd
then make R on Queens Blvd,Uturn under LIE,Woodahen and Start
or
Woodhaven Blvd,59 av,92 st,57 av,90 st,Hoffman Drive Woodhaen Blvd (or Queens Blvd)
Q39
60 Lane and Cooper Av via 60 Lane ,75 av,Forest Av,Metro Av,Elliot Av,Fresh Pond Rd,61 st,Grand Av,Rust St,57 Place,58 st,Laurel Hilll Blvd,48 st,48 Av,Van Damm St,Thomspon Av,Jackson Av,45 Road,23 st,Queens Plaza South to 27 st,
Return via Plaza South ,28 st,42 Rd,Jackson Av to stand
Reutnr via Jackson Av,43 av,23 st,Jackson Av,Thompson Av,Van Dam St,48 av,48 st,Laurel Hill Blvd,58 st,57 Place,Rust St,Grand Av,58 Av,61 St,Fresh Pond Rd,Elliot Av,Mtro Av ,Forest Hill Av,75 av,61 st ,Cooper Av,60 Lane to Stand
EL Trips from LIC
Forest Av,Putnam Av to stand
Return via Putnum,Fairview Av,Forest Av and NB
q45
Victor Moore Bus Terminal via Broadway ,Roosevelt Av,69 st,,Calamus Av,79 st,grand Av,80 s to Elliot Av.
Return via 80st,Elliot Av,79 st,Cauldwell Av,80 st,Grand Av,79 st,Calmus Av,69 Place,51 Av,69 st,Roosevelt Av,75 st into the Termial
Q47
Marine Air Terminal .Ditmars Blvd,82 st ,24 av,Astoria Blvd,80 st,25 Av,77 st,31 av,73 st,37 Road,75 stinto Victor Moore Bus Terminal
Return via Broadway ,74 st,31 av,77 st,25 av ,80 st Astoria Blvd,82 st,Marine Air
Q53
61 st at Roosevelt Av
via 61 st,Roosevelt Av,Broadway ,Queens Blvd,63 Drive,Penelope Av,Woodhaven BlvdCross Bay Blvd ,,Beach 95 st,Rockaway Beach Blvd,Beach 102 St,Rockaway Bch ,beach 116 to stand
Return via BEach 116 st,BEach Channel Drive,Beach 108 st,Rocakway B,Beach 102 st,RBB,Beach 94 st,Cross Bat ,Woodhaven Blvd,63 Drive,Queens Blvd,Broadway 61 st to RooseveltAv
There is an alternate used on Queens Blvd/corona Av,,,anyone know it
Q72 LaGuardia Airport
94 st,Junction Blvd,
23/Ditmars Blvd Turnarouns via NB Junction Blvd,23 av ,95 st, stand at Ditmars Blvd,,,Return via ,94 st,Juction Blvd,,Horace Harding Eastbound Service Road,97 st,62 Drive,Queens Blvd,,Junctions Blvd and Stand
Return via Junction Blvd
CHECK OUT 90 st 57 AV area,,make sure it is Correct
QM10 from Queens Blvd at Woodhaven ,via Queens Bvd,63 road,110 st,62 Drive,108 st,HHE ,99 st,57 Av,90 st,Queens Blvd,LIE
Return via QUeens Blvd from City ,,63 Rd,110 st,62 Drive,108 st,HHE,99 st,57 av,90 st,Queens Blvd,Woodahaven to stand
QM11
same ,via Queens Blvd to Ascan Av Uturn START TRIPS
via Queens Blvd Qm10 Routing
Return via Queens Blvd to AScan Av,to Queens Blvd via QM10 routing now
Qm12
Cresent Apts on Union Tpke Cutaway via Union Tpke.Metro Av,Woodhaven Blvd, Yellowstone Blvd,,62 Drive,HHE,Queens Blvd Woodhaven lv,LIE
Return via Queens Blvd,HHE,Yellowstone Blvd,,Woodhaven BNlvd,,Union tpke
QM22
77 st at 31Av via 77 st,Astoria Blvd,79 st,Astoria Blvd North ,78 st,Ditmars Blvd,SteinwayStreet,21 Av 21 at,50 Av,LIE Midtown Tunnel
Return via Queensboro Bridge,,Queens Blvd,,Cresent St43 Av,21 st,21 Av,Steinway St,Ditmars Blvd,82 st,31 av ,77 st to stand
QM 24
Myrtle Av at 73 st via Murtle Av,Fresh POnd Rd,Elliot Av,Woodhaven Blvd ,,LIE
Return via Queens Blvd,Woodhaven Blvd ,Elliot Av,Fresh Pond Rd,Myrtle Av,Cooper Av,73 st,Myrtle Av
Steve
Q14 Extension to 3 Av in Whitestone Queens
Implementation March 2001
Northbound on 150 st to 3 Av,,Stand.
Return via left on 3 Av,left on 149 st,left on 5 av,right on 150 st
Presently ,via 150 st,right on 7 av,right on Clintonville St to a terminal in front of a private house.after layover,SB via left on 151 st,left on 7 av,left on 150 st to Flushing
Alernates
1,Do Nothing
2.NB via 150 st to layover near side of 3 av,.lafter layover..make left on 3 av,left on 149 Place,left on 5 av,,right on 5 av to FLushing
====149 PLACE is very narrow
Q32 Proposed Service Revision
Implementation March 2001
Span of EB be extended 1 hr from 1200 AM to 1 AM on the overnite period following weekday ad Saturday Service.Late Night SUnday span of service be extended 1 hr from 10 PM to 11 PM
.During the extended period of service,..the Q32 with operate on a 30 Min Interval
Alternative
1.continue present schedule
On the way home on a Flushing bound 7X this evening around 5:30pm we passed Willets point and noticed a good portion of the lots by and inside the depot appeared to be flooded with water. What's up with that? Was that from Tuesday's wind storm?
I think there is just a hugh water table in that area. the slighest amount of rain will cause that. The whole reason they built a new Flushing/Stengel Depot in 91 or 92 was b/c the depot they built in 1950 started to sink due in the middle due to it being in swampland and the lack of pilings throughout the building except for under the foundation.
New Directions swept the top 3 seats, now hold 37 seats out of 46 on the executive board, and now hold 5 out of 7 vice president seats.
Results:
President-
Roger Toussaint received 12,465 votes.
Eddie Melendez received 4,347 votes.
Willie James received 3,786 votes.
Secretary-Treasurer-
Ed Watt received 12,471
Joe Pajewski 4,310 (Mel)
Swainson Gill 3,541 (Jam)
Recording Secretary-
Noel Acevedo received 12,332
Julia McMillon 4,174 (Mel)
Virginia McGeagh 3,804 (Jam)
ND won the VP positions in Mtce. Of Way (Julio Rivera), Stations
(Darlyne Lawson), Car Maintenance (Neil Persaud)., RTO (Tim Schermerhorn), and TA Surface (Amin Khan).
The VP for the Private Lines will be George Jennings. The VP for
MaBSTOA will be Gil Rodriquez.(Both non-ND)
ND won the Executive Board seats in Track, Structure, Line
Equipment/Signals, Stations, Car Mtce., Conductor/Tower, Train
Operators, TA Surface Mtce, TA Surface Operators, and Westchester/NY Bus.
Bob Dowe, another board member form the "privates", died of a hart attach this month ... don't know who will replace him. He was also a QSC employee & drove for us most every day.
Mr t__:^)
Ed Watt is a bus operator at Ulmer Park depot and former depot chairman of Flatbush depot.
I seen recent posts naming these 2 bus companies. I know Varsity is in downtown Brooklyn. Where can I catch a ride with them? Also what is the B110 that Private operates. I would love to ride my old Grumman friends again. The sound of that 8v-71 is music to my ears. Any info apreciated. Thanx!
Varsity doesn't operate for the public, they care folks around for some City agency ... don't know which. They also have a fleet of school buses that are housed in Command's OLD facility.
Mr t__:^)
Actually the site always belonged to Varsity which is owned by the Cooper Family. When they took over the Pioneer routes and set up Command Bus it was moved into the Varsity terminal. At the same time the City had school contracts put out for bid and Varsity lost some work and had the space available.
Thank You
I can believe that, and knew that Pioneer was there before them, thanks for the input. Do you have any idea why it was named Command ?
Mr t__:^)
I have no idea why it was named Command Bus. Just for your information the reason that the Cooper family took over the routes was a union problem. The TA wanted the routes themselves but because the Pioneer drivers were ATU and the Brooklyn Division is TWU , it would have required a seperate depot and authority such as MABSTOA. The TA did not want to do this (the alternative was drivers and mechanics lose their jobs completely or they go to MABSTOA at the bottom but ATU was against that for reasons we all know with the routes being assigned to the TA Brooklyn Division which is also civil service.) Since Mayor Koch did not want to start a labor war with the unions he made a deal with Cooper to take over the operation. When Command started the express fare was 25 cents higher than all the other privates lines were charging at that time.
By the way in April-1980 Avenue B and East Broadway Transit went out of business with the TA taking over the operastion and drivers through MABSTOA. It was no labor problem as Avenue B were also TWU as was MABSTOA.
[By the way in April-1980 Avenue B and East Broadway Transit went out of business with the TA taking over the operastion and drivers through MABSTOA.]
Right ... was another Cooper company. We have one of there office staff upstairs in Accounts Payable.
Mr t__:^)
By the way Avenue B and East Broadway was newver owned by the Cooper family.
For your information when Salzberg owned Queens Transit they took a look at taking over the Pioneer operation . They passed.
Domenico Bus Service also took a look . Passed also
Rumor was they did not want anything to do with ATU
Thank You
As mentioned on this board in the past the B110 is operated by a company known as PRIVATE TRANSPORTATION, INC. It is operated by Orthodox Jews and runs between Boro Park and Williamsburg. I believe that the fare is $ 2.00 and since it is a NYC Franchised Route, ridership is available to any one who pays the fare. It does not operate from sundown Friday to early Sunday morning in observance of the Jewish Sabbeth. IIRC the garage is located on 2nd Ave and 9th Street in Brooklyn and also serves as the base for several other affiliated companies. Try putting the name in a search engine, they may have a website. Also try looking them up in a Brooklyn telephone directory or call information and get their #.
Varsity does a shuttle service for Hunter College. I believe you need a C.U.N.Y. ID card to ride the bus. I see the buses running up first ave and down Lexington between Hunter College and 34 Street. They use the Thomas and Blue Bird buses on this line (not the yellow school buses). Hopefully some of the 1984 RTS buses which i mentioned in a post yesterday will be used on this route also. I hope this helps you.
Happy Holidays,
Kevin Barsky
transitworld.org
Thanx all for the info. I'll try to catch a ride on the Grummans on the B110.
The following is the New Directions election platform taken off the ND website( www.newdirections.net):
1) Salaries and benefits of elected officers and appointed staff will be sharply reduced. Salaries will be lowered to $75,000/yr for President, Secretary-Treasurer, and Recording Secretary. $70,000/yr for VP and $65,000 for Staff Reps. Medical benefits, sick time, and vacations will be the same as provided in the TWU/MaBSTOA contract. We will reform the staff pension plan based on the principle of equity with the working members of Local 100.
2)The Local's financial records shall be open to all Local 100 members.
3)Division chairs and other elected officers, to be decided upon by the division committees, will be placed on the union payroll to replace appointed staff reps in divisions.
4)We need a strong union presence on the job. The Union hall will be staffed 24/7. We will build a network of stewards and safety reps, chosen by the members where possible, throughout the local. We will start a stewards council where stewards from all divisions can meet, exchange ideas, and develop strategies for dealing with management. we will exercise our right to shut down unsafe work.
5)We will work to break down barriers created by our different titles and divisions. In addition to regular monthly Division and Section meetings, we will hold local-wide membership meetings, joint division meetings, and meetings away from the union hall in communities where Local 100 members live and work.
6)Many of our members are single parents or have to look after children when their spouses work. We will explore ways to provide childcare at all union meetings to make it easier for all members to participate. we will also fight for better protection for our members who can't work, including maternity and disability benefits.
7)Full union rights for probationary and provisional workers, including in the disciplinary procedure.
8)We will fight for full Civil Service status for MaBSTOA employees. protect the MaBSTOA pension by incorporating it into NYCERS.
9)Real pension improvement. Transit workers deserve a further reduction in age and years of service needed for a pension. we will fight to restore 20/50, non-contributory, retirement plan, sacrificed in the 1970's.
10)Reject management's absolute right to set working conditions, schedules, tricks and picks. The union should be protecting and advancing seniority rights, not bargaining them away.
11)The bi-partisan support of the Taylor Law, workfare, and last December's injunctions against the free speech of transit workers show that working people need independent political voices. We should use our COPE money to organize with other unions and community groups to fight for the interests of transit workers in all political arenas and to run our own candidates who will truly, and finally, represent the interests of working people. Expand our political alternatives so that we no longer rely solely on the Democratic and Republican parties.
12)Organize a Local 100 Solidarity Committee. Our fight with management does not exist in a vaccuum. It is taking place in an increasingly anti-worker climate. The outcome of other workers struggles can have an impact on us. Declining levels of unionization, defeated strikes, and contract givebacks have weakened the position of all workers. A stronger labor movement will benefit us all.
13)We pledge to properly prepare to fight to win good contracts for all of Local 100's members. Those preparations will include:
*Strengthening the union on the job
*Organizing the membership to stop management's daily abuses and enforce our right son the job
*Building alliances with other unions, community groups, and the riding public
*Establish a Local 100 fighting fund
*Ensure that the Local will be able to function without the dues check-off
*Recognizing the possibility of a strike and preparing for that possibility
14)No union should take striking lightly. But no union can defend itself and its members if it rules out striking. Properly organized and properly prepared, transit workers can win a strike, save our jobs, stop the deterioration of our working conditions, defeat the Taylor Law, and win true pension improvement. If we are prepared and unified, a strike may not be necessary. The final decision on whether to strike or not can only be made by a vote of the Local membership. The officers' job is to make sure that the union is prepared for any eventuality.
Spotted over the last two days:
Thursday 12/14 - 1751 on the Q1, run #9.
Friday 12/15 - 1751 on the Q46 Eastbound to Springfield Blvd. apx. 8:30AM.
She still has some life in her apparently. I'm wondering if I should change my choice from 1852 to 1751 :-)
QV may still be running some 1982s in local service, but they are down one more as ex-Ulmer Park PA1819 is now out of service and pending scrap. I spotted PA1740, PA1747 and 3967 in JAM express service on 12/14.
By the way, JAM will be receiving 9261 and 9268 as soon as they leave ENY Base Shop. Ulmer Park sent them there, but they will not be returning. A bunch of other 1996-97 Novas have gone to MJQuill including 9270, 9276 and 9277. Quill now has most of its group of 9270-9281, and it looks like JAM will get 9257-9269. As a result of this, Quill has moved 3804 and 3810 to 126 Street, while 3828, 3863 and yes, PA1826 are now property of Hudson Pier.
Stay tuned...
Mark
I didn't see 1742 in the College Point Yard this evening.
Has she been sent to Nimco or Gershow?
flx7595
Both 1742 and 1745 are history at Casey Stengel--1745 is at Edgewater, and 1742 might have gone to Nimco.
That leaves 4448 as the last GMC bus assigned to Casey Stengel/Flushing Depot. Fittingly, fishbowl (GM-T6H-5305A) #4448 assigned brand new to Flushing Depot in 1970.
Mark
Edgewater!? Ha! That's like a vacation spot. Both 3822 and 4191 went back into service after being put there.
Poor 1826! Condemned to Hudson Pier which always ranks last in MDBF in Manhattan Division! They might as well put her out of her misery and push her into the Hudson River!
I thought that was a storage yard, I can't beleive she's STILL in service. She was supposed to be scrapped!
How can they scrap a bus without sending it to either Jamaica or Q.V. depot first? I thought that wasn't allowed.
BIG AL
Considering the structural condition of that depot, it just might FALL into the Hudson some day just like any other bus in the depot at that time!
you guys are missing out on #1740 from JA. Saw her on 57th Street and Park Avenue Friday Night. She running very well.
Just read in the Washington Post that WMATA will be purchasing 100 CNG New Flyer buses to be put into service in late 2001. They also are budgeted to buy 300 more buses, not sure by whom or what fuel they will be using, but from what the article said, it doesn't look like they will be diesel. They are also going to try using the "cleanest diesel fuel" available for the existing fleet.
At least they are getting something other than an Orion.
[They are also going to try using the "cleanest diesel fuel" available for the existing fleet.]
BTW, there's more to it then just buying a different brand of fuel.
P.S. We've been approached by a dealer at this depot. Don't know exactly why they didn't try to sell nycDOT, i.e. 7 companies.
Mr t__:^)
Yeah, I'm sure there is a whole lot more that's involved. The problem is the media has been really talking about air pollution in the DC area and the effects that diesel fuel is having on asthma, in particular. I realize that these buses are no where near the only cause of it, but unfortunately, people see the black smoke billowing out and immediately blame them. Now that my dad has asthma, it bothers me more to see that, but if more people would just stop driving, it would help a whole lot as well.
I fully support this procurement.
Last time when WMATA announced that they were going to buy a large amount of buses (the recently delivered 2100/2200-series Orion V's and Orion VI's) I was less than pleased. First, because I was getting pretty tired of seeing Metrobus gradually homogonize its fleet to relatively boring Orion models. Second, when the 230-bus Orion order was announced, I knew that that inevitably spelled the end for the New Looks.
Now, the Orion V has joined the ranks of the Flxible as a standard Metrobus (452 V's in service, about 770 Flxs in service) and I have had some time to get over the retirement of the New Looks. But, for the sake of fleet diversity, I would not like to see any more Orions on order.
Does anyone have more details on the New Flyers? Will they be low-floor, standard-floor, or both? If they are low-floors, I pray that they will not have that awkward misplaced rear door like NFI's in Phoenix, Orange County, and Hamilton. I also hope that they do not continue with that cheap italic Metrobus logo above the windows halfway back on the bus. This is a tasteless tarnish on the otherwise classy Metrobus paint scheme.
Who else submitted a bid on this order?
If they have decided to go low floor, I think they made the right choice. I feel that the New Flyer is one of the only low floors on the market that can rise to the challenge of WMATA's many different kinds of bus routes; it should fare a lot better than the unreliable, unproven, unsightly Orion VI, anyway.
Also, I think that although low floors are becoming more popular, WMATA will continue to order standard-floor buses for service on suburban routes where the route patterns really do not call for the use of a low floor bus. Low floors would not afford riders the same comfort of standard floor buses on high-speed, long-distance routes. I truly foresee a return to RTS's for this purpose. I know the RTS has somewhat of a bad name in DC, but the newer models are tenfold better than those unstable RTS-03's they had (9000/9100 series). Keep in mind that despite some major problems, their original RTS's did make it 21+ years! Plus, how awesome would a brand spankin' new NovaBUS RTS-06 look in Metrobus colors?! I would even settle for an RTS-08. (And LFS's for low floors, but I guess that is not going to happen.)
We also have to consider which batch is up next for retirement. With fewer than 40 RTS's remaining, a large order of new buses will really take a bite out of the current fleet of, yes, FLXIBLES!
I am not a die-hard Flxible fan like some of you out there, but the Flx Metro really is the quintessential Washington bus. My favorite Flx is the Metro-D, and these (9700/9800/4000/4100 series) will obviously be around for a while still, but to me, the Metro-B just characterizes a DC city bus, especially those in the old scheme. I will be sad to see any of these go.
So WMATA, I was a little mad at you for retiring those venerable New Looks, and your purchase of Orion VI's made me even more worried, but this order of New Flyers redeems you. How could I stay mad at a bus system as comprehensive (and confusing!) as Metrobus!
Neil Greenberg
¡Qué viva el subjuntivo!
Who said they are getting New Flyer? They don't know yet who they are buying from.
ALSO:
Metro will have all new fareboxes on all buses by 2002 (originally 2001 but that was before the delay formula was computed) that will accept the SmarTrip card. That extra bit of weight is useless on the buses. If the other area bus companies come to their senses, they will accept SmarTrip too.
The "suits" at the MTA in NYC are watching to see how the new farebox works out ... we have the same mfg. here you know.
Disclaimer: I don't actually have any knowledge that THEY are watching, but it does seem reasonable to assume.
Mr t__:^)
>>>Who said they are getting New Flyer? They don't know yet who they are buying from.<<<
>>>Just read in the Washington Post that WMATA will be purchasing 100 CNG New Flyer buses to be put into service in late 2001.<<<
>>>They also are budgeted to buy 300 more buses, not sure by whom<<<
It seems they are sure they will be purchasing the 100 New Flyers, but they don't know where the other 300 will come from. Well, frankly, I'm glad. New Flyer produces the best bus not he market now sans the RTS. The D40LF is fast, stylish (yes even with that boxy shape), and have a nice engine. I wish the Orions they have the worst.
To corroborate that, RTS, the post specifically stated that they're buying from New Flyer. check out WMATA's website too.
C
I am looking forward to seeing these New Flyers. I hope they are Low Floor, but the article didn't specify low floor or high floor. When I was at the BusFest in September in NYC, I clearly liked the New Flyer LF a whole lot better than the Orion. It looked like a good solid bus. WMATA had test driven a New Flyer artic a few years ago, after they had received the Ikarus, so I'm not sure if they were checking it out because it was a Low Floor, or what it was.
I'm not sure if anyone else was on the order with WMATA, I know the new fareboxes that they are purchasing has a clause that allows all the other systems in the DC area to purchase them as well so that they could have a seamless system.
Neil, I completely agree with your perception of the Flxibles. I will certainly shed a tear when the first Metro B's disappear. At the rate they are going, some probably will disappear soon since they are 14 years old. The rehabbed ones will probably be kicking around for several more years at least.
A return of the RTS's in DC would be nice. I'm not sure if they are nervous to purchase them because of the problems they had with the ones from 1979, but as we've heard and WMATA people should know, those were bad buses and the new ones got better. I don't know how the procurement process works. I'm sure there is some kind of under the table, return the favor deal that goes on.
[WMATA had test driven a New Flyer artic a few years ago, after they had received the Ikarus, so I'm not sure if they were checking it out because it was a Low Floor, or what it was.]
Sounds like the same New Flyer artic that was tested in Philadelphia about 3 years ago, before they decided to go with the Neoplans. IIRC, the MBTA also had this demo bus on it's property.
Speaking of artics, do they still run those god-awful MANs at WMATA?
You're probably right about the New Flyer Demo. I'm sure they sent it around to a lot of properties that were purchasing artics at that time. I never saw it when they were test running it, but I know it was used in Northern VA a lot as the WMATA website was advertising it at the time.
Yeah, they still run several MAN's. I see them mainly running on the MD suburban lines, such as the J2 and J3 and the Q2. They may still use them on the 70, but anytime I see an artic on that line its an Ikarus. One MAN, 5119, is even painted in the new livery, so I guess they plan on keeping that one around for awhile.
I agree with the fact that the WMATA is Flxible just as SEPTA is Neoplan and NYCTA is RTS. I mean, without the Flxible bus, the WMATA is Orion, and that would certainly change the perspctive of Metrobus. About the metrobus logo above the windows, I think it would be much better if they had the red stipes on the top part too. I mean, there probably isn't any room for that logo, since on the standard floor buses the logo is basically above the wheel. Also, about the RTS, although I do not wish to start this huge argument again, I would be pretty angry and lose all of my admiration for metrobus if they went for RTSs again. In my opinion (and I don't really care what you think about it's durability and junk like that) the RTS is just a cheap way for transit companies to say, "Hey, look, we are an awesome company because we have the cool round buses." I personally think that the WMATA is good enough to get that "awesome company" praise without getting RTSs. Also, although it was pretty interesting having such old buses on the fleet, it was about time for them to say goodbye. In addition to the stylish New Flyer low floor buses, well, let me just say that there isn't really any such thing as a stylish bus. It's okay, although personally I like the style of the Neoplan AN440s better. Oh, and don't forget, I don't have anything against the RTS, it's just that it's not an amazingly fantastic bus, just like every other type of bus in the world, except for maybe some European buses. They look pretty cool.
>>>I personally think that the WMATA is good enough to get that "awesome company" praise without getting RTSs.<<<
Not with all of those cheap, crappy Orions. They will be if they can get the New Flyers though. But, if they get Neoplans, down, down, down....
>>>(and I don't really care what you think about it's durability and junk like that)<<<
That's like buying car a you like even though you know it's a turd just to spite a better manufactuer with a better looking car. And what do you mean junk like that? I hope you NEVER, EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVER get into the transit business with an attitude like that. If you do I'll take extra care to avoid any company you're in. I mean, my god, those are the kind of thoughts you keep to yourself.
I had a feeling you would get annoyed with that statement. Let's see, now, I have to ask you a question. Have you personally and physically ever ridden a metro Orion bus? I have, and they are at least okay, if not pretty good. Plus, you need to stop thinking about buses when you think of a transit company. A transit company isn't just about the vehicles, it's maintanance, and care of the vehicles plus the customers, as well as the safety for everything else as well as the vehicles. Plus, it's not like I would purposely look for the worst buses in the world, but I don't really care if a bus lasts for 40 years because I wouldn't exactly keep a bus that old. I would get new ones maybe every 5 or 10 years, if not more often. Also, I personally agree with the fact that Neoplans wouldn't be a WMATA kind of bus, but those Neoplans aren't bad buses, if you have ever ridden them, and I ride Neoplans extensively on the 105 bus route on SEPTA. Also, I have ridden a 2000 model Neoplan in the city, and I still think they are quite good in terms of looks and other stuff that aren't incredibly important in most people's lives, the ones that just ride the bus instead of driving it and have no impact with transit systems at all other thn riding them. As long as a bus can get me from here to there with a comfortable ride, I'll be okay.
>>>I had a feeling you would get annoyed with that statement. Let's see, now, I have to ask you a question. Have you personally and physically ever ridden a metro Orion bus?<<<
No, but I have ridden an Orion V before and it wasn't anything to write home about.
>>>Plus, you need to stop thinking about buses when you think of a transit company. A transit company isn't just about the vehicles, it's maintanance, and care of the vehicles plus the customers, as well as the safety for everything else as well as the vehicles.<<<
Earth to Basman! Do you have a brain in there?! The vehicles are the basis of all that stuff you listed. An RTS could take less maintenence than say an Orion. They can still run decently even without proper care as MaBSTOA proved. If the riders don't feel safe LOW to the street on a bus that's already shoddy, that has to do with safety, customers, and *gasp* here it comes Basman, are you ready fot this shocker? The vehicles! I'll repeat it again, vehicles. Since you wear glasses I'll put it in caps locks, VEHICLES!!!!!!!! My god, you're sad. Do you EVER research or put ANY type of thought into the stuff you post? I mean, if you actually took the time to read what you posted, how could you not know that I would rip it to shreds like the scrapper does an Orion!? Don't you even understand the basis of the transit company os vehicles, VEHICLES! You can have all that stuff you mentioned, but really sport, are the people going to ride on the loads of safety study reports, or the wrenches, or the managements backs?! No! NO! They ride on the vehicles. Yes, those oh so not important things. I really suggest you try it sometimes.
>>>Plus, it's not like I would purposely look for the worst buses in the world, but I don't really care if a bus lasts for 40 years because I wouldn't exactly keep a bus that old. I would get new ones maybe every 5 or 10 years, if not more often.<<<
Oh no! TAs hide your money it's Basman coming to waste it! Do you READ what you post? What kind of moron retires five year old buses unless they are crap? So basically you're saying that you would buy new loads of crap every five years, either that or, nevermind I'm not trying to flame. I guess shortness of life is WAY more important to you than silly longevity. Oh my, how could I be so foolish and want a bus to last more than five years? TAs, embrace this man, we've all been fools for SOOOO long!
>>>Neoplans aren't bad buses, if you have ever ridden them,<<<
Yeah sport, I've ridden them. Houston's a customer. They had some 30ft, 1986 Neoplans that aged like 3 years per year. Then that oh so large order of 15 1986 suburban Neoplans that had some of the most asanine seating controls I've ever seen! A lever, you want me to recline my seat with a lever!? This isn't 1886 Neoplan! I'm glad those scumbucket are retired. Then, you have your 1993 Neoplans, the artics and the 45ft. suburbans. The 45ft. buses are the only real good Neoplans we have. The suburban artics from 93 and 97-99 are slow as hell, especially the 93s. I can run faster than their takeoff! Besides the 45ft. Neoplans, I only kinda like the newer transit artics. Only because two have special dest. signs (4522 a bright orange one and 4525 a loud lime green one that I call "Broadway Style"), two of them have a Grumman 870 hum (4541 and 4557), and most of them make this scream I enjoy hearing. But those are just quirks, it doesn't mean they are good buses, especially the engine scream. They're pretty much crap, CRAP! I rode 4526 once and it looked ripe for retirment, this a 3 year old bus mind you, oh yes I forgot, that's too old for you. Anyway, I was on 4526 and the seats were torn and grafittied out of this world, it was slow (surprise surprise!), the circle in the middle where the bus bends was beating against the floor LOUDLY, and it just squeaked and squealed and the breaks grinded on stops. Good buses my ass. Now, before you go and blame our maintenence, sport, we have some of the best, if not THE best maintenence in America. What does that tell you? Well, I'll tell you seeing your questionable "skills." It means that Neoplan built us 90 crappy artics and they suck, SUCK!
So Basman, as you seethe(sp?) with anger, thinking of another not very clever way to insult the RTS, I want you to know, I've won. I've proven that the RTS is an overall better bus in terms of durability, maintenence, reliabilty. My bad, those aren't too important to transit companies thanks to that relaible info you thought up in your head. But, I also proved that many people feel they look, and sound better too! Oh my, the things you care about! HA! But I can't take credit alone though. I'd like to thank anyone who backed me up in this argument or had anything useful to add, even if against the RTS, because I surmounted it anyway.
Now Basman, if you still wanna dislike the RTS, leave it to the pros. D60HF actually has valid arguments and doesn't kill himself in the argument. You know sport, the best thing are better left unsaid. In your case, anything about the RTS that isn't a pro that you've probably just learned, leave it unsaid, or this will happen again.
Thanks
RTS4Life
Gee, as I said numerous times before, I don't have anything against the RTS bus. I also probably said that I don't actually care as much as you do for buses. In addition to that, I had ended that argument about the RTSs a while ago, and you apparently had something to say about every other thing I happened to mention about anything. About the 5 or 10 year replacement, I would SELL, that's right, SELL the buses to other smaller transit companies that may not have a great budget. Oh, and I say this again and again, no bus, not even the RTS, is worth enough to actually bow down and worship, or even kiss as you have mentioned in a previous post. Oh, and I'll say this again, in bold and italics so it will stand out. I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST THE RTS AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!! Besides, some european designs are much more interesting that the design of the American buses. Oh, and I don't really care about Orion or other buses. I always did, and still do, like riding the new buses.
Hello! I hope you won't be a TA because they MUST keep the buses 12 years before a replacement unless they are crap! So it doesn't matter if you're trying to be a good samaritan because you'd be wasting money anyway selling off 5 and 10 year old buses. You wouldn't recoup the money you spent on the buses because you didn't get much use out of them, but the value of them would decrease anyway.
Who said anything about worship? If Tyra Banks or Jada Pinkett or Jennifer Lopez aren't worth worshiping, why a bus? I just said I'd kiss it. I'm sure men have kissed their cars before, why not a bus?
Yes, you do have something against the RTS. You seem to go out of your way to knock it. Or sometimes to keep up appearences you'll give it a bit of credit, than make up something about its appearence or something like that. I have something against Orions and Neoplans. They're CRAP! CRAP! CRAP! CRAP! Then, how can you say you have nothing against it when you called it dingy and old!? Come on, I don't care if you don't like the bus, I've already proved it's worth to the transit industry and I've been backed up so your opinion will really have no bearing.
As for having a problem with everything you say, why not? This is a forum. You said alot of stuff that I felt was just ridiculous, such as the Orion is more popular than the RTS or that the RTS is an 80s desing yet the Orion V and Neoplans all have desings dating to the 80s as well. Plus, I've never heard anyone besides you say a Neoplan looks or even runs good. I guess people like the 80s stuff so go slap on some Reeboks, break out the Jeri-Curl, thrown in some Cyndi Lauper and get with the program!
RTS4Life
Took an 8:29am N21 to Flushing (no Great Neck) and it was a Cummins. However #133 was running pretty good the whole way.
I went to GWB bus terminal, got there ar 10:35am, just missed the 175. Next one aint until 11:10am, so I would be taking the 171 again.
The 171, a Flxible arrives at 10:45am and we depart on time. A very fast ride, and as usual the bus was empty. Got to GS Plaza at 11:05am, and had to do the walk there first though. They don't trim weeds arounbd there, and it would be nice if they improved on pedestrian signs. I wouldn't want to cross that big overpass when there's snow on the ground.
Left at 3:25pm, another Flxible, which was even faster than the one I had going. On some portions of route 4 we must have been going 65mph!
What exactly does NJT use in their Flxibles run on the 171?
Hey, I guess the 171 still pays, even though most going to the mall take the 175, it's probably more crowded (and who wants that?).
At GWB I speed down the ramp and just make an A train, then xfer to the 7 back to Flushing. Once I arrive in Flushing anything I'm happy about seems to be replaced by disgust and anger. I wonder why. Could it be the stinky Orions from Stengal(they really do have bad exhaust)?
Could it be all the lowlifes (beggars, prostitutes, trashy asian teens)? Is it the activity (lack of good, thereof?)Usually it just gets me in a bad mood. I really do hate the place. Unfortunately I have to go there because that's where I get my bus. The N21 to Glen Cove left 10 minutes late, but actually ran a few minutes early by Roslyn. The bus was 328, and like most of brand new Orions was pretty fast.
All I know is once I see streets full of litter, slutty asian women with boots, and stinky scratched up buses I pretty much get depressed.
I just wanna find that sweet girl on the hill..
"There's a girl on a hill playing the flute with her hair up in the chinese double-loop"
John, like yourself, I did some bus riding yesterday. My day started at 830 am on GBL 5502 on the Q60- which her talking system wasn't working. It's sad to see GBL waste $4000 on a system that doesn't even work. I got off her at Union Tpke-78 Ave and decided to wait to go into Manhattan. Then came my pick for the last 1982 Suburban RTS: 1755 at 840am. A very "SPEEDY ride along the LIE-if it wasn't for the bus lane-we would be stuck in at least an hour of traffic-so we zipped right up to the toll. Most of the people got off the bus along 3rd Ave. When we turned onto 57 St, that's when I saw 3810 I believe on the X92. I decided to stay on to pass the Rockefeller Christmas Tree on 5th Ave which looked bigger and more beautiful than last year. I decided to stay on 1755 until her final stop-23 St and 1 Ave at 940am. I got off her and wanted to take an Ariculated bus back to Madison Ave. Got on 1024- her interior # said 02 and the wheelchair lift got stuck at Park Ave. I got off and decided to take an MCI Classic up to Pelham Bay in the Bronx. I got on 1713 at 10am- ex-GBL 717-EX TCC 768? The transferring of depots slowed this bus down somewhat but had a great empty ride along the Bruckner. I got to Pelham Bay at 11am and got on QS 339 on the QBX1. Not a bad ride to her but she seemed like she was struggling to pick up speed until we got over the Whitestone Br-then we were flying right to Main St. I got off at Northern Blvd where from a distance, I saw an RTS turning onto Union St. I got to 39 Ave where 4448 was picking up on the Q13 at 1130am. I was laughing so I decided to take this out of place bus up to Bell Blvd. I past 153 St and Northern where a few nights ago a fire made this building become condemned. Riding 4448 made me feel so out of place with all Orions around. Got to Bell Blvd at 1150am-where I waited 25 minutes for 9354. Right behind her was 131 Q13. Took 9354 to my final destination SJU, where I work-got there at 1230pm. At 4pm, I got out of work and rode 4937 Q46 up to Springfield Blvd-crowded and a bit uncomfortable but not bad. I waited for the Q88 which never showed, saw 4917 pass me-SLOWLY so I got on 8364 bus. The driver with 4917 was flagging and operating the bus so stupidly he was flagging stops with a seated load and also taking him 5 minutes to pull out of a stop. He also goes 10 mph all the way down Union so the driver with 8364 decided to pass him. He got to Queens Blvd after we did. Then saw 1163 Q60 so I decided to board that bus. Not only did the bus black out at 65 Pl but this strange looking lady wearing a magnifying glass like an eye patch got on the bus which made some fellow passengers die in laughter. My day ended when I rode on 363 on the Q104. I noticed between GBL 1163 and QS 363 that the interior lights look different. They're similar models- but are they different years? Got home at 530pm very tired. I still pick 1755 as the last 1982 Bus. Hopefully she'll be preserved or bought by someone-she was an awesome unit. LONG LIVE PA1755!!! I feel the same way about this bus as RTS 2150 felt like 1746 but I hope the fate isn't the same.
X64#1755Gary
I'm thinking she may live a little longer or be sold. From what Al said about her last week, it sounded like 1755 had some major work done on her with the transmission out and all. I too feel she may be the last 1982 RTS bus, but I still stick with PA1767.
This afternoon for the second half of my run,which works the M57 line,I was assigned bus # 3810 a 1985 GMC RTS soft seat express coach. This bus along with # 3804 arrived at 126th Street this week. Both buses still sport M.J.Quill logos.
126th Street Depot continues to be a dumping ground for MaBSTOA garbage. Numerous decrepit 1985-86 RTS's have made their way to 126. Besides being old theses buses have received minimal maintenance while at MaBSTOA. This has caused our MDBF(Mean Distance Between Failure) rate to plummet and we are now ranked third among the 4 Manhattan Divison Depots. In my 8 plus years at 126 I have never seen our MDBF this low.
I thought the runs where you work multiple lines only existed on the midnight tour.
Actually runs which work multiple lines pretty much exist solely in the AM. Midnight tours (known as Hawks in the TA and Night buses in MaBSTOA) work only one line. There may be some exceptions but as far as I know this is standard operating procedure.
In Fresh Pond they work multiple routes on the midnights. For example, one run on the Q58 does a trip on the 58, one on the 26,then the last one or two on the 58. Not all the lines have this set up.
Sorry, I know how you are about the RTS, especially old ones. But did 3804 and 3810 really bring down your maintenence rating that much or was it some more buses? I've heard some not so flattering things about MaBSTOA, but are they really that bad, and isn't 126th street in MaBSTOA? Anyway, things will get better, I mean they could've transferred PA1826 and you could've been assinged that.
Why don't you change depots? If you did, I'd suggest JG. They don't have too many crappy Orions and you'd get to drive some of those nice C40LFs. I'd think you'd love them, and I feel they're a nice alternative to the RTS and I wish NYCTA bought 857 of those instead of Orions buses, but oh well.
126 St is the only TA depot in Manhattan. If you transfer out of there to any other depot, you lose your seniority.
I wasn't singling out 3804 & 3810 as the reason for our MDBF falling to a new low. Actually 3810 wasn't too bad a bus. Unfortunately, in the past month we have received quite a few 1985-86 RTS's from MaBSTOA that really should be scrapped. They are all high mileage, highly abused, minimally maintained buses. In other words, typical MaBSTOA. As much as I hate the RTS I must say that I doubt any other manufacturer's buses could have taken the abuse these poor beasts have taken and still be running. Yes MaBSTOA maintenance is practically nonexistant. Not all TA depots are exactly conscientious when it comes to maintenance either. Staten Island is known for running their buses into the ground and some Brooklyn Division depots are lax when it comes to their fleets. I can't comment on Queens Division having never worked there.
Believe me I wish I could change depots. Unfortunately 126th Street is a life sentence. In what can be described as an only in New York scenario, 126th Street is the only TA depot in Manhattan which is a MaBSTOA division. Some of our supervisors are from MaBSTOA and some are from the TA. We are basically Manhattan's stepchild depot. The only reason I transfered there is because it's the only TA depot which is physically closest to the Bronx which is where I live. If I had to do it all over again I would have stayed in Brooklyn Division.If they ever allow us to transfer I'll be the first one out of the door.
What time did you have 3810? I saw her on 57 Street at about 915am yesterday. See my next post about that.
I had her between 3:07PM and 6:15PM.
>>>As much as I hate the RTS I must say that I doubt any other manufacturer's buses could have taken the abuse these poor beasts have taken and still be running.<<<
For some reason I laughed my ass off when I read that line. I just can't get the picture of sad looking RTS buses at MaBSTOA divisions out of my mind.
I can agree with you on the issue of maintainance in the MaBSTOA realm. Hudson Pier for example has better maintainance now than it did say about 3 to 5 years aga, but our shifter are known as the worst of their breed! All of our buses exterior body damage is done in house by this shiftless shifters and then they get mad when the operators right the buses up for body defects. Numerous drivers from Hudson has told me this story time and time again. But I agree with man, MaBSTOA doesn;t have the best maintainance and I hope that will change in the near future.
Seasons Greetings!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
I'm sorry about the MBDF rate at 126th Street. However, 3804 and 3810 are really misplaced YUK buses. They were totally abused out there before Quill had them. So, in fairness to MJQ the condition of those two buses aren't their fault.
Flatbush has also received some rather questionable equipment from Ulmer Park--3503, 3562, 3916, 3965 and 4497 all are in service on Flatbush local routes. QV has been running 1982's in local service and JAM had 3833 on the Q42 on Thursday.
Mark
I stand corrected. My apologies to MJQ and MaBSTOA as far as these buses go. I wonder if 3804 and 3810 will be converted to hard seaters?
Because of their seating arrangements, express coaches do not make for good local buses especially on a busy crosstown route such as the M57.
I broke in at Ulmer Park so I know how shoddy their buses can be. My condolences to Flatbush for having to take UP's rejects.
3804 & 3810 will most likely be scrapped and not converted back to hard seaters. But then again, with transit, you never know. An interesting note about 3916. This used to be a Jamaica bus. It was wrecked on day when an operator lost control in the snow on the Q84 and hit a tree. The entire front of the bus was demolished. Jamaica scrapped the bus and took off most of the parts. It sat along the wall for many months in our depot. Then one day, they changed their minds, and decided to put it back together. They put half the parts back on, then changed their minds again and left it alone. Finally, it was towed out and from what I heard, it was supposed to be going to the scrap yard. Imagine my suprise when I saw it on Ulmer Park's roster as an Express bus! I'd love to take a look at that bus now, as it looked similar to the bus that was recently wrecked at Gun Hill. (8808 I think)
BIG AL
Yep, it was 8808 out of GH that got wrecked. I bet she'll be repaired-eventually-the bus is only 4 years old. If they're repairing 8485, then they'll repair 8808.
I'm quite sure they will repair 8808. They will put an entire new front on that bus. The CMF's specialize in doing that kind of heavy work and I've seen buses more damaged and older than that repaired and put back into service.
BIG AL
Bklyn Questions:
1)There are eight lines that ran in 1976 that are totally discontinued today. The B30 is one. Name the other seven and name one of the main "via" roads that the seven lines served.
B15 Manhattan Bridge/Flatbush Av......B19 Carlton Av/Adelphi St......B21 Oriental Blvd/Brighton Beach Av/Ocean Pkwy/Av Z/Emmons Av......B33 Hamilton Av/Prospect Av......B36 Shuttle......B77 Shuttle via Columbia St......B88 Culture Loop
2)Today's B1 route operates between Shore Rd/71 St and Oriental Blvd/Mackenzie St. In 1976, two different lines covered the current route. Name them.
B1/B34
3)The B15 operated over the Manhattan Bridge between Canal/Baxter Sts and Ashland Pl/Hanson St(LIRR). It ran during rush hours only though service was very limited. In 1976, how many intervals ran in each direction on the AM and PM rush hours?
2 intervals 50 minutes apart. One bus made two round trips on each shift.
Staten Island Questions:
4)In 1969, what two lines operated via Bay St?
R2SB and R2MB.
The R2SB followed the route of today's S52 and terminated at South Beach Terminal (Sand Lane & Fr.Cappodano Blvd--back then known as Seaside Blvd).
The R2MB followed the entire route of today's S51.
5)Name the old route number for today's following routes:
S51---R2MB
S42 and S52--- both known as the R5/101 (said just like the old Q25/34).
6)One SI route only had one terminus as it ran in a loop in both directions. It closely followed the route of today's S55/56. What was the 1969 route number and what was it's terminus?
R115--Seguine Av/Johnston Terrace.
Following compared the 1969 and 1974 Bklyn bus maps:
7)The B24 and B30 routes were combined into a single route in 1969. What was the 1969 route number?
B24/29
8)What route served Starrett City in 1976? Before Starrett City opened, what route operated along the similar route via Flatlands Av from Canarsie to ENY? The CNR-ENY route number was changed when Starrett City service was inaugurated. Name both route numbers.
B50. Before S.City-B84.
9)In 1969, three routes operated between SI and Bklyn via the Verrazano Br. Name them.
R7-today's S53
R7A-Summer bus that ran to South Beach via Seaside Blvd(now Fr.Cappodano Blvd).
R8X-Express bus from Richmond Av/Richmond Terr to Adams/Joralemon Sts.
10) What was the old name for the Williamsburg Bridge plaza?
Washington Plaza.
Incorrect Answers to your quiz
1-The B-21 was replaced by 3 seperate routes and not discontinued completely.
Between Mackenzie St and Ocean Pkway/Ave Z-replaced by current B-1
Betweem Ocean Pkway/Ave Z and Sheepshead Bay Station-replaced by current B-36
Between Sheepshead Bay Station and Knapp Strett- replaced by current B-4 modified
2-The current B-1 replaced 3 routes as follows:
Between Shore Rd and 25Ave/86 St-old B-34
Between 25 Ave/86 St and Ocean Pkway/Ave X-old B-1
Between Ocean Pkway/Ave Z and Mackenzie Street-old B-21
prior to 1978 change there was no bus service on Ocean Pkway between Ave X and Ave Z.
8-The B-84 never went to Starret City. It ran between Rkway Pkway Station and Cozine/Ashford July 1968 to Dec 1970 weekdays only 6AN to approx 8 PM.
In Dec 1970 it became the B-6 Cozine Shuttle operating 6 days till midnight. The B-6 Shuttle was merged into the B-6 Feb. 1973
When i was growing up in Canarsie as a kid my neighbor was a Bus Driver in Ulmer Park and I rode all of the above routes.BTW the B-84 was assigned to East New York
Thank You
What happened to Transit Transit TV Show on LI Cablevision channel 71? It used to be on Wed. at 8 PM. Has it been rescheduled? It hasn't been on during its usual time for 2 weeks now.
[What happened to Transit Transit TV Show on LI Cablevision channel 71? ]
I noticed that too. How about you city dwellers, is Transit Transit still shown on your cable access channel ?
Bill "Newkirk"
On broadcast channel 25 on Saturday and 3:30PM it is still showing every week. I live in Brooklyn.
-Harry
www.zdeno.com
I'll have too try to catch it on Channel 25. LI Cablevision doesn't offer WNYE but I can still get it on UHF. This month should be TT's Xmas show. Each year except for last year they would go to every NYCT bus depot and would each sing a portion of "The 12 Days of Xmas."
OK,thanks again!
This months Xmas show includes someone's extensive model bus collection and also a bus company owner's (forget which company) actual bus collection which included a Triboro New Look Flx with a Q53 roll sign (shown very quickly)and also a rebuilt Fishbowl in Red & Tan livery.
Also featured on the show were employees from every NY MTA bus depot, including LI Bus this year, singing "The 12 Days Of Transit." Any of our Bustalk operators paticipate?
Happy Holidays to all!
Rich
Right after you leave Broad Channel going toward Rockaway is a lot with old buses. Maybe this is the same lot. There was a Triboro baby flexible in there the last time I was there which was about 1 yr ago.
Was over at the mini lot at the Broad Channel subway station yesterday. The swing bridge was open and trains were not going anywhere so I came out to take a look. If the bus number is 8100, then it is still there as I took a pic of it. There was another Flxible Cruiser there as well.
Q11#706Mike
You get a better view from the train. It's closer to the fence. It's a 3 digit number, 80?
I think the name of the co is Rose Tours they had a flx (ex triboro) running at one time. Also had a old look from green(ex jbl) there in service some years back. I recall the flx had roof mounted ac units like a motor homes plus a eagle from a old trailways bus on the front.
[...a bus company owner's...actual bus collection....]
That was Anthony "Tony" Autorino of Double A Transportation in East Hartford, CT. I've visited Double A several times - the vintage bus collection is AWESOME. He even has a NYC Transit RTS (#1576, I think).
[That was Anthony "Tony" Autorino of Double A Transportation in East Hartford, CT. I've visited Double A several times - the vintage bus collection is AWESOME. He even has a NYC Transit RTS (#1576, I think).]
Just a minor correction - Double A Transportation is in Rocky Hill, CT, just south of Hartford, and not in East Hartford. Perhaps you were thinking of Arrow, which is in East Hartford. And, yes, 1576 is the correct number. Those interested should check out Double A's web site, www.doublea.com; it includes a list of all of its museum buses.
I am a student at the University of Michigan, but more importantly, I am a transit enthusiast. I live in a dorm on North Campus, which is several miles from most of the class buildings. The University has its own transit system to ferry us between destinations on campus; the University buses are a convenience for Central Campus folk, a necessity for North Campus people.
Generally, the University does a less than great job in operating a transit system. In fact, I would venture to say that the bad experiences students have riding the University buses may just turn them off to mass transit for life.
Anyway, Ann Arbor has its own city bus system as well. AATA is the posterchild for low floor buses. They have the first low floor buses in the US, and of course, they are now hellbent on low floor.
Today, I was chatting with a girl in one of my classes who was trying to tell me about the "new" buses she saw on AATA. "I'm telling you," she insisted. "They're new and really cool looking, and a lot more comfortable than the other ones." She continued. "They are rounded and aerodynamic and seem to have a lot more room on the inside."
OK, my fellow bus fans. AATA has three types of buses in their fleet: New Flyer low floors, Gillig low floors, and RTS's. I gave you the characteristics she passed on to me, now you do the math.
A new bus? I don't think so, Katie. What you rode was a 1989 RTS. It's almost eligible for retirement. The company that made it is out of business. Its design is 24 years old.
Case study #2 (posted in one of my previous messages): I was shuttling my spoiled sister and her stupid friends to the mall in my gas-guzzling SUV, and an RTS passed us en route. "Wow Neil, what kind of bus is that? It looks cool." said two of the friends. I drew in a deep breath and responded with pride "That, ladies, is what we call an RTS. It might just be the finest transit bus on the road today." Of course by the time I got to describing the powertrain and destination sign, I had lost their attention, but you get the idea.
Case study #3: AATA has several rush hour routes which are mainstays for RTS's. Earlier this week, I rode one of these trips which happened to be using a Gillig low floor rather than its regular 35' RTS-04. The conversation of two other riders bent my ear. They were discussing their prefernece for the 'regular' buses. "I think this one is newer, but I like the way the other ones look better." one said. The other then expressed her dissatisfaction with the fact that she was sitting "practically on the street."
These three instances all highlight the opinions of people who really don't know an RTS from a Flxible from an Old Look from a Neoplan, let alone do they care. However, they all share a liking for those sleek contours and unique characteristics which are unmistakably RTS.
Do any of you honestly think an Orion V, Gillig Low Floor, or any other faceless shoebox bus could have turned the heads of transit-ignorant, attractive teenage girls on at least three separate occasions? I'm afraid that only our friend the RTS affords that kind of attractiveness to America's transit fleets.
Now of course, I, being educated on the ups and downs of each different kind of bus model, can say that the RTS is far from perfect. I personally like almost every type of bus out there (except for my STRONG aversion to Gillig Advantage low floors and a mild dislike for Orion VI's) and my dream fleet would contain lots of different types of buses.
However, like 'em or not, you just have to admit that RTS's are the only buses on the market that really bring character to transit. They were way ahead of their time in the 70's despite some relatively minor problems in the beginning, and, thanks to modifications by NovaBUS, their design continues to be cutting edge to this day. The only other bus that comes close in character is the LFS, so it looks like NovaBUS has the charismatic transit bus market cornered!
Neil
I don't know about head turning, but I guarantee you these transit ignorant, attractive teenage girls would be shaking their heads in disapproval if they had to drive an RTS 8-10 hours a day 5 days a week.
I think they'd do that driving any bus.
For the first time, I have to disagree with you, DHF60. If those transit ignorant attractive teenage girls had to drive an RTS, they would have quit after the first hour.
BIG AL
No, they'd think it was "cool" the first hour, then, after the second they'd quit.
If transit ignorant girls had to drive anything bigger than an SUV, they'd quit after 15 minutes, let alone an hour.
Wow. Who here believes that load?
-Hank
Are you naturally like this or is this just an act?
I'm always this cynical. I know (knew) many a teenage girl. Not one of them has EVER asked me any questions about anything on the road, with the exception of my sister seeing a Hummer directly in front of us and asking if I could buy it for her. (I said me first).
The transit-related questions I answer always involve "How do I get there?" and "What time should I leave?"
-Hank
You think I'm making that up?
I have no motivation for lying. If I want to praise the RTS, I'll come right out and do it without concocting an elaborate story in which to dress it!
Perhaps I should have mentioned, though, that all of the cited girls in my account full well knew that I am interested in transit.
Neil
¡Viva el RTS!
Sorry, I still find the story hard to believe. Everyone I know knows my interest in transit, and my knowledge of other things that may otherwise be useless. My fraternity title was 'Lord of Useless Knowledge'
-Hank
This message is posted because some people have said that 3990 is scrapped. Well, here she is on the Q88:
Enjoy!
Q88#3990Gary
Who said 3990 was scrapped? All you have to do is check the various rosters to see what buses are active and what buses are scrapped.
BIG AL
Mark Holmes had this bus listed as scrap. Glenn Rowe had it as active. Who's to believe?
3990 is listed as in service on Mark's roster. Maybe it was taking a vacation at Edgewater.
Actually, you have it backwards Gary. I have 3990 active and Glenn has it scrapped. Its been in QV since the summer. Apparently they were trying to decide whether or not to scrap it. Obviously, they decided not to.
Mark
Hey, I love your rosters. Do you work for the TA to get all of this info? Anyway, good job.
One question, do you know when the last fishbowl in NYC was pulled from service?
Thank you for the compliment and yes I do work for the TA. Its hard work compiling all that info, but thanks to help from you guys, I manage to get it done.
I'm not sure of the exact date but the last NYC Transit fishbowl to operate in service was 1970 T6H-5305A #4401, which was renumbered as 5227 when it was rebuilt by Blitz.
Mark
Anyone have a list of the Blitz rebuilt numbers with their corresponding original numbers? A partial list might even help. Thanks!
Some original Blitz numbers just stick out in my memory especially the former express coaches. For example: 5200=4487, 5130=8849, 5341=6164, 5527=6349, 5575=4503, 5576=4504. Those immediately come to mind.
The 1985 fishbowl renumberings (from the 43-4400 to 63-6400) were much easier to remember mostly because of the individual features of each bus.
I remember 5200 being at QV when it 1st returned from Blitz.Also wasn't 6349 a transit .I could have swore I caught that bus brand new at FP in the early 70's because i can vaguely rememeber that FP had 6300's with that last New Look fishbowl order
Yep, 6349 was a transit, delivered new to FP during 1973. The original order to FP was 6335-6349, replacing the retired 7000/9000 Old Looks. One odd thing about 6349 when it was first delivered was a blank plaque on the AC grill possibly for the use of the bus serial number which at that time none of the NYCT buses had numbers on the AC yet.
Some original Blitz numbers just stick out in my memory especially the former express coaches. For example: 5200=4487, 5130=8849, 5341=6164, 5527=6349, 5575=4503, 5576=4504. Those immediately come to mind.
The 1985 fishbowl renumberings (from the 43-4400 to 63-6400) were much easier to remember mostly because of the individual features of each bus.
Okay, who remembers the Blitz rebuilds with the forward-facing (hard) seats? The seats were nothing like anything I've ever seen elsewhere; they even had a little hole in the back, I assume for drainage.
I ask because about two years after they first appeared, I never saw another one. Were they converted to the usual sideways seats at that point or were they just moved out of Manhattan? (I remember them on the M104.)
As for dates, I was under the impression that the last GMC (Blitz rebuild) was retired in 1993 and the last Flxible was retired in 1991, but I may be wrong on both of those dates.
The New Look lives on in at least two old bus stop signs still posted (as of March 2000) in Manhattan. One is on Lafayette St. at the M1 stop at Houston St.; the other is at the Passenger Ship Terminal, adjacent to 12th Ave.:
The stainless steel seats with the blue plastic are used by SEPTA in Philly
5227 was the last blitz reired in february 1995 and lives on in gleason depot as a museum bus.
I take this to mean that nobody else remembers these seats in NYC. I'm sure I'm not imagining them. Come on, anybody?
Like I said I remember those seats on what were originally new look suburbans that the TA had Blitz convert to forward facing transit seating .They had great leg room too.
Aha, they were originally suburbans! That makes sense. But why did they disappear after a few years? Or did they just get moved off the routes I rode?
They finished up NYCTA service in 94/95 mainly in Brooklyn and Queens.But in Jan 96 a few days after "the storm",I caught TA Blitz rebuild running for LIBus on the N4 in rush hour service.
Quite a number of the Blitz's finished their lives running for MSBA in Long Island. Since the establishment of MSBA in the early 1970's, there were quite a number of times when retired or to-be-retired TA buses wound up running for MSBA, from very early fishbowls (MSBA numbers 571-580) to RTS's (MSBA numbers in the 4000's).
Were MSBA fishbowls 571-580 the non AC buses and what were their original TA numbers? I once saw a 1975 Newlook Flxible, the model without the standee windows, running on a MSBA route during the 80's. It was in MSBA's 800 series. I wonder if that was also a former TA bus. Also the following TA Newlook Flx's still with their original numbers ran on MSBA routes: 9032, 9052, 9054, 9055, 7596 and GM Newlook 6149.
571-580 of MSBA came not too long after MSBA took over the Nassau County private bus lines. They were TDH-5301's from NYC-TA, but I don't recollect which of the 4 series they were from. A number of years later, MSBA had some non-A/C TDH-5303's that were renumbered into the low 500's by MSBA. In the late 1980's (if I remember correctly), MSBA had a severe bus shortage and wound up with about 50 new-look Flxibles from NYC-TA that MSBA renumbered into 350-399. I believe most were from the 7000-7300's of NYC, but I recollect a few 7500+ buses without standee windows. In the 1990's, MSBA received some Blitzes which were not renumbered and the RTS's that were given a first digit of "4" instead of "1" or "2"
I remember the MSBA bus shortage in the late 80's but I don't recall the newlook Flx's having #'s in the 300's. I remember them still with the NYCT 9000/7500 series. The Blitz's not only came with the original NYCT 5000 #'s but also with all the NYC MTA/TA logos and markings. They also came with NYC advertisements on them. The only thing LI Bus did was paint lettering on the rear "LI Bus."
According to the bus rosters on the web it was 350-399 and the 9000's weren't included.It was the 7000's and 7500's.I think these were scrapped when MSBA decided to invest in the (ugh)Gillags.the only buses indentical to the 9000's at MSBA was 850-902(the last of the New Look Flexibles)
According to the bus rosters on the web it was 350-399 and the 9000's weren't included.It was the 7000's and 7500's.I think these were scrapped when MSBA decided to invest in the (ugh)Gillags.the only buses identical to the 9000's at MSBA was 850-902(the last of the New Look Flexibles)
A picture is worth a thousand words. I remember them. RIP 5107
Thank you! (The image didn't show up but you also emailed it to me. For anyone else who wants to see it, view the HTML in Engine Brake's post, find the URL for the image, and enter it manually into your browser.)
Beautiful. Now that's a real bus.
It's not quite as I remembered the Blitzed buses, though. In most of them, the center row of lights was removed and the ad bars replaced with the ones used on RTSs, which include lights. The new ones ended up essentially blocking the standee windows. I think the reason for the change was the installation of the new roof-mounted a/c system, which doesn't seem to be in place here. Maybe the buses with the forward-facing seats didn't get that treatment? No, I don't think that's right. And this is clearly post-Blitz. It even has the roof emergency exit. I'm stumped.
This picture also brings back memories of the two types of green light over the exit door. Most common was the double bulb that we're all familiar with, but some buses had a single bulb that gave off a somewhat paler green, like this one. Is there an interesting story behind the distinction?
And I guess no one knows where these buses disappeared to after a few years of service. Oh well.
Do you have any more pictures of old buses?
Sure do but I am incompetant with HTML. I'l try it again though after I upload it.
BLITZ5229
BLITZ 5107
The exact date of the retirement of the last fishbowl is March 8, 1995. Yes Mark, again you are right. It was bus #5227, operating out of Jackie Gleason depot. The approximate date the last Flxible was retired is August 8, 1994. I know this because when I went to my medical for being hired around the beginning of August '94, I was watching a 9000 Flxible operating under the window of the medical facility in Brooklyn on Jay st. However, when I started training on August 15th, I was told all the Flxibles were now off the road and I was very disappointed that I would never get a chance to drive one.
BIG AL
March of 1995, i think. The number was #5227, running out of Jackie Gleason Depot. The bus is still there, not running though
3990 has been at ENY since day 1.It seems that until now they never moved 3985(ot was it 86)-4010 while 4011-4070 was moved all over(ENY originally had an initial order of 85 85 RTS-04's to replace the large order of 1969 Flexibles they had.
Lucky me... :-)
I feel like this is Miss America Pagent. Right now the following 1982 RTS Express Suburbans are left:
1740, 1747, 1751, 1752, 1755, 1767, 1773, 1819, 1826, 1844 and 1852. Who will be Miss 1982? Stay tuned!
X63#1755Gary
Scratch off 1819. It was just scrapped.
BIG AL
It will be PA1767! The bus just screams, "Oh please, don't scrap me! My number is streamlined and look at these fabulous curves. Go to Jamaica and scrap that old hag 1755. That bus just sounds so old and she had to have her transmission repaired. Me, I'm all natural baby and I don't have to work those express lines to look sexy."
1752 is my choice. That is the last 1982 I rode on this past summer.
Not to change my vote, but of the ones left - I must support my Stengel buses (1740, 1747 and 1752 all were Stengelites at one time...1740 an original to Stengel (I don't think 1747 and 1752 were originals - but they wound up there. I don't recall ever seeing 1751 at Stengel.
Of course...1742 could miraculously be pulled back into service. Stranger things have happened...
flx7595
They'd have to pull her out of the shredder first.
Sorry Flx7595 but 1742 is dead. I know that 1755 will be gone 1 of these days but compared to us-they g2g sometime. And as I said in the last post, nothing is wrong with having them in your memory. I still remember the GMC RTS, Grummans and Flxibles at QS. I remember some of the MTA Blitzes-not all though. But I do remember the RTS the most. Here are a few buses that I remember getting all of the time when I was a kid:
Q32#PA1532-3 times in 1 day!
Q32 AND Q46 #PA3255
Q104#823
Q66#622
Q32#5340-OLD DAYS!
Q46#5278-OLD DAYS!
I also remember following 5100 on the Gowanus back in 93?! 1807 1818 and 1819 were there too. If I can recall others, I'll let you know.
Q32#2406Gary which is NOW Q88#7004Gary
The bus I think I travelled the most on was 7175 (John Bowne HS Shuttle) and 4095 (on the Q15 it would be pulled into service). Also almost all the 1500's Stengel had and PA 1717 and PA 1731 a lot.
flx7595 (no, never had the pleasure. Always got 7597 or 7598)
I always got 7204 or 5780 when used to take the 44 to Bowne,when i started getting the 88 it was usually 4430 or 4497 (when they started throwing the suburbans into local service.
5780 ran out of Stengel? I remember all the 5600's but I know someone already said 57xx's ran out of Stengel.
Like its 56xx cousins, I am sure it had no air conditioning.
All the older buses got those school runs..
It had no A/C plus it was the only one with the White on top/Blue stripe scheme
FLU had lower 5700's during the 70's. I remember seeing 5741 often either on the Q44 or the Q44VP(74). During the early 80's, FLU recieved upper 5700's I think from SI. One day I saw 5790 on the Q27 which I was supprised to see that higher number 5700. 5790 was the highest in that series.
I caught 5780 alot around 82-84( like you said early 80's)I remember this cause FP had the only white/blue batwing fishbowl in 8120 and the last of the bus in green in 8098.
Bus PA1747 was an original Flushing/Stengel bus...they had PA1734-PA1749. While PA1752 was an original Jamaica (JAM had PA1750-PA1758)bus that was loaned to Flushing for a brief period.
For the record QV had fishbowl and Grumman coaches until PA1759-PA1768 came over from Fifth Avenue Depot in 1984. I believe that was when JAM sent 1757 and 1758 over to QV and FLU sent 1746-1749 to JAM.
To follow along further, buses PA1734, PA1735, PA1748, PA1749 and PA1758 went over to Staten Island in 1993, where they would meet their untimely demise a short while later. Buses PA1753, PA1756, PA1760-1762 head over to the Island in 1996(?).
To take a page out of Gary's book, I will sign this as...
X51#PA1740Mark
X63#PA1747Mark
X64#PA1752Mark
X68#PA1767Mark
I remember riding on these RTS buses as a kid-travelling to and from school and then going to college in 1991
Bklyn
3745
3744
PA1476-when UP lost the Grummans, they got these)
1234-it had the air conditioning on the roof
1224
Staten Island
PA1616-PA1648 (they were nearing the end in Staten Island)
I also remember #6909 and #6916 on the M18 (now the M86) on weekends. I also know that #9178 was a FLixible and UP had it in service for awhile.
LOL Good one Mark :) I remember riding the following 1982 Coaches on the local lines: 1738 Q17, 1740-1742, 1744-1745 Q46, 1746 Q17, 1751 1757, 1760-1762, 1765, 1767, 1773, 1819, 1823, 1826, 1834 Q46, 1855 Q59. I remember seeing 1791 for a short time on the Q46. 1792, 1799 and 1824 were at FP before they were retired.
Q32#109Gary
1792 and 1799 were never at FP.
I think they were for a short time before they were retired. I remember seeing 1792 and 1799 on the B24.
Q32#1700Gary-was out of HP before her retirement
I thought long and hard about whether this was more suited to SubTalk or BusTalk. I decided it should go here.
Trolley manufacturer leaving a trail worldwide
Grab it quick. These tend not to stay on the Newsday site very long.
--Mike
If it runs on the street without tracks it should be considered a bus
true. ive ridden those so called trolleys in wildwood. it is nothing but a glorified bus. go to philly now and ride a pcc for a true old fashioned trolley ride.
Or even closer -Newark NJ
We call those pseudo-trolleys, and they are not cool. On the other hand, a Fishbowl with trolley poles, is cool. Too bad Toronto doesn't run them anymore.
Hello; I am writing from Roanoke, Virginia and I have a question concerning the WMATA Flxible "B"s; as much as I hate to see them leave the fleet, I am curious as to whether the 30' models will be retired. I own a small business specializing in custom diecast cars, trucks, and buses and am considering the future purchase of a 30' or 35' Flx Metro for conversion into a workshop and mobile store for car shows and the like. Does anyone know of any coming up for sale in the VA/DC area, and for about how much? Let me know; thanks in advance, and Happy Holidays!
Oh god, please don't do that. When I see people flaunt before and after pictures of transit buses made into RV's or trucks or vans, I get sick.
But, I suppose I am somewhat obliged to answer your question:
The 30096-6T-1's are 1988 models and although they are technically eligible to be retired, I think they will be around for another few years at least. Also, keep in mind that a lot of these are not even at WMATA; a handful are at Ride On.
The 35102-6C-1's are 1990 models, so these still have another two years before retirement is even possible.
All of these buses are in pretty good condition, so if they are sold, I would guess that smaller transit authorities would get first dibs.
Neil
Neil, I feel exactly the way you do on the subject; most bus conversions look like something I ate and dropped. Window and door skin-overs, etc. are tacky in my opinion and they really take away from a transit's styling. By no means do I mean to do that to a good looking coach like a Flxible Metro. Being a curator of a transit museum, it makes me sick to see someone do such things to these nice buses.
When and if I obtain one, I will leave it mostly unmolested; it will still retain its exterior looks. The only major modifications I would do to the bus would be to remove all seats except the front side-facing rows behind the driver's station and installing cabinets, spray booth, and workbenches that fold into tables for product display when I am on the road. These compartments would be lockable for safety, and I would padlock the front door for security when I am away from the bus. For ventilation I would use portable fans that are easily placed in the side windows before I begin work and then removed and put away in the cabinets when I am done.
For the outside, I would remove the transit company's markings (assuming this is not already done before the bus is placed for sale) and give the coach a simple transit-style scheme. My idea is to have one loosely based on the WMATA colors except that there would be a yellow stripe between the blue and red. I plan to do this with reflective stripe tape for looks and safety.
The modifications would pretty much be minor on the outside and the bus would retain its looks; anything done to the inside would purely be for the sake of clean functionality. Let me know your thoughts; thank you for your reply. Suggestions are welcome and appreciated.
Fred
Hello everyone; just wanted to let you know that I enjoy the discussion in this forum and have something that may interest all of you. I specialize in toy and model buses (including Flxible New Looks, 870s, and Metros, GM Fishbowls and RTS, and Gillig Phantoms), and offer custom painting to match your local livery. Included are NYC MTA and WMATA, among others; for more info, e-mail me or check out my website at members.aol.com/Fredman176. Hope to hear from you soon!
Nice job on that Gillig Phantom!!! Was that made with.....LEGO????
Steve, thank you for writing. I'm glad you like the Phantom; I had a lot of fun buliding it. It was made entirely of Legos; I also have another one of these available for sale that features Alcoa wheels and metal roof exhaust. If you or anyone else should be interested, let me know!
-Fred
send me a pic of the bus you made . if you can make it in 1/87 (ho scale), you might have a buyer. please email it to pingu45@aol.com
A friend of mine who is British and now living in New York is looking for help in tracking down the whereabouts of New York Apple Tours first generation of buses which were pulled off the streets back in the late summer. Theses buses known as Daimler Fleetlines have diappeared from NYAT's Greenpoint Brooklyn facility. If any of you encounter theses buses while photographing at any of the area scrap yards please let him know. He has a website(http://glastonwick.freeyellow.com./ixmain.html) which among other things has a section devoted to the double decker tour buses operating in New York. This section includes complete rosters, photographs and histories of each bus. In addition to the missing Fleetlines he is also on the lookout for another bus known as a Bristol Lodekka (It's the type whose picture appears on the opening page of the website under the title British Buses In Exile Around New York)which is supposedly being used by a radio station in Queens. Any information about the Lodekka and the Fleetlines would be appreciated. You can email him at the address shown on the website. Thanks.
Maybe your friend can simply call up NYAT's and ask them what happened to those buses. Or ask the operator on one of the buses still on the streets. I guarantee you somebody will know where those buses went and give him an answer.
BIG AL
My friend tried contacting NYAT but found them to be very uncooperative. Since their operating license has again been suspended by an Appeals Court there are no NYAT buses on the road and thus no drivers to ask.
My question to all of you out there is how on earth did these polluting buses ever get through U.S. customs?...Do they have different standards for used buses/trucks?...Gee, and I wanted so much to buy a brand new air-cooled VW Beetle in Mexico and bring it here, but I was told it was dead idea because of safetly and emission standards. This is why I am asking what is the difference in standards between the two.
The British-built double deckers, at least those retaining their original diesel engines and built after a certain date ('71?), are likely to be outside newly-proposed emission standards which may take effect within the next couple of years. Re- the VW story, just possibly maybe the giant American car builders and/or engine builders got an unofficial say in what can be imported as a 'new car' if it were to potentially affect their sales?
Trying to be fair to all points of view, I understand and sympathise with people who genuinely complain at 'excessive emissions'. However, I believe the UK-built double deckers have been unfairly picked upon as culprits for polluting the city; there's never been a problem in Britain or (as far as I know) the rest of Europe - in fact quite the opposite as people are always being urged to leave their cars to travel by bus... to DECREASE the amount of harmful exhaust emissions.
The press, putting 2 and 2 together and making seventeen (not helped by the often-blinkered and over-zealous views of Guiliani and Co.), fuelled by those with nothing better to campaign about than to remove any possible form of traffic from their street, I believe to be the main cause of the discontent. And how many people can honestly say they've never seen an RTS (especially the older ones without roof-level exhaust) belching out black smoke?
Let's be fair to ALL buses and their operators, and discard any unnecessary prejudice - whether double- or single-deck; US, UK, or wherever-built.
Have any of you followed the B71 Re-route controversy? The B71 is a little-used line that runs, every infrequently, along Union Street in Brooklyn. I think it is more heavily used east of Grand Army Plaza. The bus will have to be rerouted for seven months due to construction.
The "community" in Park Slope was up in arms about the bus going down people's streets. They wanted a one-mile detour on 4th Avenue and 9th Street. Eventually, the TA said it had no choice but to reroute, and has been excoriated for being "anti-community."
Most TA bus routes lose money on every ride. This one certainly does. If that's the attitude of the "community," I think the TA should have said "we have heard the community, and we are eliminating the bus in Park Slope, so those on Union Street won't have to put up with it either."
The B71 could terminate at Grand Army Plaza. Those using the bus in Crown Heights and East New York could transfer to the B41 to Downtown Brooklyn, then catch a bus to the other side of the Canal. The B71 could also be extended to Bartel Prichard Square, providing additional connections for those riding from east of GAP (B68, B75), and supplementing service on the B69 for that length. A transfer to the B75 takes you across the canal.
In summary, if the "community" is going to object to buses the TA should seize the opportunity to take them away and redeploy the workers and vehicles elsehwere. Let them beg for it back.
I didn't realize there was bus service on Eastern Parkway, east of Grand Army Plaza. Based on the headways on the timetable, I'm guessing usage of the B71 is not great. However, if the TA starts removing bus service from any streets where there is great community opposition to buses running, a good percentage of the bus service in many boroughs could be done away with. Frankly, without knowing more detail of the ridership numbers for the B71, it is hard to say whether the TA should have used the opposition as an excuse for doing away with the route altogether. There are some other routes in the city with 30 minute headways and low ridership, yet the route does come in handy for enough users that to do away with it would be unwise.
From what I have seen of the B71 ridership, there are less than a handful of people riding this route.
B71#8547Mike
As usual; more complainers than riders.
They should shut the route down, and put the vehicles and drivers on other routes. And they should do it "for the benefit of the community, and in response to their complaints."
Once the MTA establishes the face that it is prepared to pull the plug, people and pandering politicians will either be less likely to criticize the buses or riders will show up to counter-protest at these NIMBY meetings.
The B71 does not go to ENY. It goes as far as Rogers Avenue and Sterling Pl. Before that, the B71 terminated at GAP. I always felt that the B14 and B71 should be combined or at least the B71 should go to Utica Ave. Union Street is very small for a two way street, I have to ride the B71 someday.
B71#911Mike
The B71 "controversy" is vintage Park Slope nonsense. There is always some group in Park Slope papering the streetlamps with flyers protesting this or that indignity. This is a temporary construction re-route of a bus with 30 minute headways. That neighborhood is filled with people that have a need to protest something or to find an "enemy" of the moment. The B71 doesn't even run all day and you could probably make a case for eliminating it all together.
Hi
What is the temporary routing?
This is for those who are interested. I should of done this sooner. This is the current roster and more new busses should be coming in. Also this information is unofficial since I do not know everything and I do not work for Miami-Dade transit. All models are 40' x 102" except the 4000 and 5000 series, which are 60' x 102". Miami-Dade also has those Bluebird mini busses 1901-1920, which are about 25' in addition to the plethora of Ford and Dodge based mini-busses used on some routes.
7001-7129 are 1987 Flxible Metros w/Cummins L10 with Voith 3 speed
8001-8087 are 1988 Flxible Metros w/Cummins l10 with Voith 3 speed
9001-9066 are 1990 Flxible Metros w/Cummins L10 with Voith 3 speed
9067-9073 are 1990 Flxible Metros w/DD 6v92N DDEC with Voith 3 speed
9074-9094 are 1990 Flxible Metros w/Cummins L10 with ZF (speeds ?)
9201-9215 are 1992 Flxible Metros (9211-9215 w/6v92N and rest L10)
9301-9358 are 1993 Flxible Metros w/Cummins C8.3 with Voith 3 speed
9359-9373 are 1993 Flxible Metros w/DD 50 series with Voith 3 speed
9401-9425 are 1994 Flxible Metros w/DD 50 series with Voith 3 speed
9426-9430 are 1994 Flxible Metros w/Cummins M11 with Voith (?)
9701-9750 are 1998 NABI Standard Floor with DD50(tranny I don't know)
9901-9993 are 1999 NABI Low Floor with DD50 (tranny I don't know)
2001-2020 are 2000 NABI Low Floor with DD50 (tranny I don't know)
4001-4040 (ex 4011) are 1994 Am. Ikarus artics with Cummins M11 with ZF tranny
4011 is an 194 American Ikarus with DD 50 and ZF tranny
5001-5026 are 1995 American Ikarus with M11 and ZF transmission
I will post comments later. I try the best I can and thus I cannot guarantee the information that I typed above. I will try to correct mistakes as I gather correct information.
A number of 1987 and 1988 Flxible Metros are either retired, or junked. Heck even a few 1994 and 1995 American Ikarus Artics have bit the dust.
Miami-Dade also ordered about 642 NABI Low Floors to be delievered in a five year period. That 2001-2020 (originally 0001-0020 before renumbering) came in as part of that order. I do not know yet when the next shipment is scheduled to arrived although I read a rumor that four more arrived recently. All should be powered by DD50.
Bad news for Trevor: That NABI order will replace the Flxible Metros slowly, but surely. I think the 1987 and 1988 Flxible retirements are related to the NABI's arrival.
Bad news for RTS 2150: No RTS are in the current Miami-Dade fleet. Dade county ordered 260 1980 RTS series 04 of 40' x 102" back in 1980. All of them bit the dust and I wish some lived on. They were powered by 6v71N with V730 3 speed automatics. Some of the very last RTS on the road were repowered with 6v92N engines. Last RTS's were replaced by those NABI's.
Damn NABIs, damn them to Nimco.
DAMMIT!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
It's true Trevor. Some fo the Flxibles are being "junked." Some have been brought back in service from this horrible fate though.
I truly wonder whether MDTA really -needs- to retire buses after exactly twelve years in service. I would think that a bus in Miami would last a lot longer than its prescribed 12 years.
Other transit systems which operate the same type of equipment (Flxible Metros) in far harsher climates and/or much more demanding transit conditions seem to get a lot more life out of their buses somehow.
Let's take a short tour around the country of TA's with longer-lasting buses:
In New York, their RTS's last at least 15 years. As we all know, both the weather and the operating conditons in NYC ask a lot more of a transit bus than anything I've seen in Miami-Dade.
Washington, DC and environs offer up a vast array of settings for a transit bus. Again, the weather there can be quite brutal, too. But, again, WMATA does not rush to retire their buses the second they hit 12. They have hundreds active Flxibles of the same age as those being retired in Miami, and the ones in DC will soldier on for at least another few years before even the oldest ones are replaced. And don't even get me started on their miraculous New Looks, which made it almost 40 years (and could still be going, in my opinion.)
In Los Angeles, where the climate is relatively similar to Miami, MTA has kept hundreds of RTS's well past their 12 years. Some of these will remain active until they are 20 years or more. And, regarding Flxibles, most of MTA's Flxs are late 80's models, and these aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
Even here in Detroit, our city system, D-DOT (NOT to be confused with SMART of the suburbs) keeps buses for at least 15 years, and the weather here is debatably some of the worst in the country.
I could go on, but need I say more to suggest that something isn't right at MDTA? I have nothing against NABI, but that 642-bus order begins to look a little suspicious when considering that they are pulling 12 year old Flxibles in perfectly good condition out of service to make way for the NABI's.
And if a bus lasts only 12 years in the Florida sun, how did they get 20 years out of many of their RTS-04's?
Sounds like fuzzy sunbelt replacement to me. Hmm...
Neil
Transit companies are willing to keep RTS buses longer than most other types of buses. Houston got rid of some of the Metros when they were 12, 13, and 14, while RTS 1903 soildiers on in base service almost everyday at the age of 19.
Is it that they are "willing" to keep the RTS buses longer....or is it that the RTS buses were BUILT BETTER than most other types and lasted longer?
i drive 20-year-old T8H203's regularly....and they are still going strong and are expected to stay around another 2-3 years!!!! (Can't say that for those crappy Gillig Phantoms though....)
Miami-Dade did not retire every 1987 and 1988 Flxible. Just some of them. The 1987 and 1988 Flxibles do not have wheelchair lifts. Probably Miami-Dade's goal is to make the fleet accessible as fast as they can. Also they have street level exaust, while the 1990 and above have roof exausts.
As for the RTS (1980 models) I can guess they love them, but then the question becomes why did they not order more? Also RTS's were retired throughout the 1990's and not one year. The last RTS in service was in August 1999.
Houston loved it's RTS buses and never ordered more. They said they were too expensive at the time. One RTS bus in 1981 was 125,000. Maybe the Flxibles were cheaper.
Also, many of the RTS retired throughout the 90's were leased to Greyhound and came back beyond repair.
Houston also leased their RTS's to Greyhound?
I think Miami-Dade ordered Flxible throughout the late 1980's and early 1990's probably due to cost.
No, I meant Miami-Dade. Thank god we didn't seeing what happened down in Florida.
Miami-Dade did not retire every 1987 and 1988 Flxible. Just some of them. The 1987 and 1988 Flxibles do not have wheelchair lifts. Probably Miami-Dade's goal is to make the fleet accessible as fast as they can. Also they have street level exaust, while the 1990 and above have roof exausts.
As for the RTS (1980 models) I can guess they love them, but then the question becomes why did they not order more? Also RTS's were retired throughout the 1990's and not one year. The last RTS in service was in August 1999. What is interesting is that according to Geocities.com Miami-Dade roster, some units were leased to Greyhound, then junked at the end, which was the early 1990's.
You forgot about NJ Transit keeping some of it's old MABSTOA/TA re-builds in active service until late this year. Even the 1300-1400 series lasted into 1998 before the first batch of Novas arrived.
JBL which was purchased along with the 870's that became NJ Transits were retired this summer when they got some of QS's RTS-O6's
Does anyone own an transit bus RV conversion? If so give me details, please. What is it like and what are your experiences? Also, I would like to see pictures please if you got any.
There are plans in the future for me to purchace a SEPTA 8000-series Neoplan AN440 (I want an Allison do my shifting for me) upon retirement and do a conversion on it myself. There was this website that had a Flx Metro converted. The problem of a transit bus RV conversion is that the wheel wells protrude, and the floor gradually rises 2" at the rear. What I want to do is cut the body at the beltrail, and raise it 18", and use a floor section from another bus and add storage space. I know that is very involved, but i have a few friends who do metalwork. What you want is to have the chassis resemble a Greyhound-type than a transit. The good news for me is that I can get blueprints for a Neoplan AN340 Metroliner (which is the suburban version). If your plans include a Flx or an RTS, keep in mind that the side are rounded and fabricating would be tougher, but not impossible.
I was passing by the RIPTA storage yard off Elmwood Avenue in Providence this weekend and caught a glimpse of some blue and white RTSs off to the side - yup, NYCT buses! They are six of them (at least I saw six of them) - one 1985, the rest '86s; the numbers are 4034, 4368, 4388, 4405, 4473, and 4495. 4495 still has its destination sign set for the B11! I'm guessing they were purchsed for parts, since Mark Holmes' roster lists 4034 & 4405 as being scrapped. They all looked intact and had RI "Jitney" license plates; I took some photos that will hopefully come out despite the miserable weather.
Another interesting RIPTA sighting - in the West Exchange St layup yard, one of the 1985 Volvos has been converted into an office of some kind, complete with a conventional home air conditioner sticking out the side of the body.
Are any of RIPTA's 1985 Volvos still in service? Never got to ride any of them, but I did see a few of them several years ago (mid-90's) during a visit to downtown Providence.
According to the Bus World Encyclopedia of Buses, only 55 Volvo non-articulated transit buses were manufactured, all for RIPTA. This would make them quite rare in my opinion.
The only time I've had the opportunity to ride RIPTA buses,earlier this year on the 98 Pawtucket/Providence route, I had 2 different Neoplans on both trips. I forget the exact #'s but both started with 88.
Mark Watson
4034 was out of ENY originally ran she ran for the TA
Only 55? Wow! I'm in New York most of the time and in RI only some weekends, when buses are few and far between, and mosty 1998 RTSs and fake trolleys, but I'm pretty sure there are still a handful of Volvos roaming the streets. There were some in the yard with their original taillights; most of them were replaced with smaller units in the late 1980s or early 1990s. The exhaust on those Volvos turned the taillight lenses black (and the Neoplans weren't much better). All RIPTA Neoplans are 1988s (the fleet number corresponds to the year of manufacture).
[According to the Bus World Encyclopedia of Buses, only 55 Volvo non-articulated transit buses were manufactured, all for RIPTA. This would make them quite rare in my opinion.]
Almost. SEPTA had 1 Volvo B10m Transit non-artic #8590 (VIN #FA010206) which was built to RIPTA specs. I don't know the circumstances behind that bus, but my guess was that the Volvo artic order for SEPTA was delayed or something like that. #8590 operated out of Allegheny for most of it's run and saw service mainly on the 9 and 27 lines between Center City and Manayunk, Roxborough, Andorra, and Plymouth Meeting That bus was retired from revenue service last year. I have a photo of it at my web site:
http://www.geocities.com/pennbus1/gallery/septa8590.jpg
NJ Transit also tested a non-artric Volvo before they brought their artrics
I was down in Providence in October, and all I saw were the 1988 Neoplans and the 1990-1998 RTSs; although in September I did see one Volvo #8519 on Fountain Street.
Providence posters: Can you send me a complete roster of all of RIPTA's fleet? I have a Buses of Boston website and it would be nice to add a Providence roster as well. Just send it to orion5bjc@yahoo.com and I'll give you credit! Also, does RIPTA operate one garage on Elmwood St or do they also have one in Pawtucket?
Brian Colby
Unfortunately, I think I'm the only one (although there a couple lurkers in RI), and I don't have much information. I do know there are 1985 Volvos, 1988 Neoplans, and 1990, 1992, and 1998 RTSs. Until recently, there were 1978 and 1981 RTS slopebacks in service (in fact, according to the delivery lists at www.bus-rosters.com, RIPTA got the first RTSII-03s ever built).
I'm not sure where all the facilities are. I know of the yard off Elmwood Avenue (and I thought the adjacent garage was RIPTA, but all I saw were Narragansett Electric vehicles last weekend), and there's a small layup yard on West Exchange Street behind the convention center. I'm going to reallocate some "family time" this weekend to do a little more investigation, though :).
I believe RIPTA had a small garage on the outskirts of Newport, RI.
I didn't find out much this past weekend, but I did get to ride by the yard on Tuesday afternoon; it was virtually empty, save for the NYCT buses, a 1973 Fishbowl used by the fire department, and some Neos, 1992 RTSs, and a Volvo that look like they're used for parts. I think the NYC buses may have moved a bit, too. I noticed some of them were missing their route destination signs, and one sign that remained read something like "Q11?SYNGEOCY?" Also on Tuesday, I saw Volvo #8524 on Fountain St, so they're still in service. I'll post pictures when I get them developed.
BTW, the garage is on Elmwood Avenue between Longwood and Thackery Sts, across Longwood from the yard. I don't know how I missed it the first time.
Back in September, I went to Foxwoods and was waiting for the bus to go back to Boston, and 8519 went by on Fountain Street. Obviously, they still run pretty well, and I remember a trip to Newport in which I saw a Volvo run the ex-100 (now Route 60) Newport-Providence route.
I have the old Trackless Trolleys in Rhode Island book, which describes the garage on Elmwood Ave as well as a garage in Pawtucket. The state of Rhode Island then took all the older ETB operations and consolidated them to the Elmwood Ave garage (which makes sense, since Pawtucket is about 4 miles away, and all they would need to do is use North Main St to shuttle the buses back and forth).
They'll probably use the NYCTA buses as either parts or maybe as a project for RIPTA to rebuild them, which would be a huge longshot considering their condition (an otherworldly destination sign is a sure sign it's run its last legs).
Does the book say where the Pawtucket garage is (was)? I'll have to check it out.
I can't see why RIPTA would be rebuilding 14-year-old NYC buses when they have a rather large fleet of two year old buses and newly rehabbed ten year old buses, so I'm going with the theory that they're parts buses.
I just read the RI Transportation Improvement Plan 2001-2006; to quote:
"RIPTA operates a fleet of 235 buses consisting of: 15 trolley replicas, 25 small buses, and 195 standard coaches. Over the course of the two implementation years of the TIP the 1988 and 1990 series buses will have reached their useful life. RIPTA also plans to expand this fleet to 250 buses over the next six years."
It goes on to break down future bus purchases: 23 in 2001, 28 in 2002, 12 in 2003, 31 in 2004, 25 in 2005, and 7 in 2006; of the 51 purchased in 2001-2, 34 will be 40' buses, 12 26' buses, and 5 CNG "trolleys." Additionally, the 92xx RTSs will be remanufactured.
It's odd that it doesn't even mention the 1985 Volvos, but if they're considering the rehabbed 1990 RTSs and the 1988 Neos, some of which have been rehabbed, to have reached the end of their "useful lives," I'd assume the Volvos are also up for replacement.
Also in the TIP: a new building or total renovation of the Elmwood Avenue facility, an ITS network for buses, real-time arrival information at stops and automated announcements on the fake trolleys, and the introduction of a farecard.
I just looked up in my Trackless Trolleys in Rhode Island, and there were two garages (Elmwood Ave and Pawtucket) up until the mid 50s, when they decided to consolidate all operations to the Elmwood Ave garage.
Thanks! I have to get that book; I just found a copy of it for sale online :).
This weekend's observations: about eight 30' RTSs have appeared in the yard, numbered 99xx (I only caught the numbers off two; they were 9930 & 9938). I've never seen these before, and they seemed untouched by snow and dirt, so they either just arrived or have been hiding out in the garage.
Also, I saw 9001, the bus on the cover of the schedules :). Interestingly enough, 9001, 9002, and 9008 were in the old paint scheme, probably indictaing they were rehabbed before they decided on the new look. And I haven't seen any of the repainted Neos or Volvos since the summer!
I apologize if this is getting old already, but I had another interesting sighting on Saturday night: RIPTA bus #4186, at North Main St & Smithfield Ave in Providence. Since RIPTA's fleet numbers begin with the model year, this leads me to believe 4186 is another ex-NYCT bus that kept its old number, but was repainted and given a bike rack. It looked good, too!
Also, the 99xx 30-footers I saw last week have mysteriously vanished.
I finally have my pictures from the first two yard trips up, at www.geocities.com/ripta42. Note the extremely crude beginnings of a transit pictures page :).
Nice pics. Glad to see that out 1985-1986 RTS are still serving in other states besides NYC. Hope to see more real soon.
It's too bad I didn't have my camera when 4186 went by in RIPTA colors. I'm going to try to hunt it down soon.
RIPTA99#4186Mike
Very nice and interesting pictures. On bus 4034, I noticed it has a
"This Bus Uses Clean Air Technology" sticker. It looks like that sticker is on several other buses as well. I have never seen that sticker on any pre-1990 year RTS from NYCT.(before the 8000's) I wonder if that sticker was put on to make the buses appear to be a better sell, or if R.I. put those on.
BIG AL
I've never noticed the sticker on RIPTA buses, so I'm guessing NYCT put it there. It's funny that they would take a scrap bus and put a "clean air" sticker on to make it a better sell :).
I caught a glimpse of RIPTA's scrap lot behind the former Dunne Ford dealership on Elmwood Ave while passing by on Amtrak, and it looks like every one of the NYCT RTSes are in there, in various stages of disassembly (along with the increasingly-graffitied Fishbowl #767).
Dunne Ford lot (Scrap): 4034, 4170*, 4361, 4365, 4368, 4386, 4388*, 4405*, 4406, 4473, 4477*, 4485*, 4489, 4502, 4503*
(*- still in NYCT colors. 4405's front module is in RIPTA livery.)
Melrose St yard (Storage): 4136 and three others, all in RIPTA livery
(*- still in NYCT colors. 4405's front module is in RIPTA livery.)
Melrose St yard (Storage): 4136 and three others, all in RIPTA livery
By my count, that would leave 7 ex-NYCT buses on the RIPTA roster. Are these still in service? I saw four of the ex-NYCT buses when I visited Providence last November (sorry - don't have the numbers handy).
Jim D.
I don't know; I didn't see any on the road. I'm not even certain all the buses purchased by RIPTA made it up to Rhode Island; I know I've never seen 3839 on the property.
Over the past two weeks, the RTS supporters have clashed with the other BusTalkers have argued and discussed which bus is the best. Now, without a recount, while the electoral college votes for president, you can vote for the best bus.
Sincerely,
Oren H.
Webmaster of Oren's Transit Page
I can't seem to post on the SubTalk forum. Let's see if this works.
Spotted MCI 1983 on the x19 today. Nable about it is the tailamp clusters, with the exception of the corner lamps, have been replaced with LEDs.
-Hank
Are LED lights only available in the little circular style for buses? Can they be altered to maybe a more square shape or whatever?
The newest NYCTA RTS's have rectangular shaped LED lamps in the rear for turn signals and stop lamps.
An advantage of LEDs is that they can be assembled in any shape or pattern. The ones on NYCT RTS and MCI are square.
-Hank
cool. On the LTS buses, they would be rectangular, but I gues all LED lights are flat.
If that's the case, then why is SEPTA retrofitting it 3000-series Neoplans with the circular LEDs instead of the rectangular, also, NJ Transit's RTS's have the circular LED's. If one is to retrofit something new onto something old, at least try to make it look original.
Why bother? Are the round lamps larger, or smaller? In either case, they're brighter, so you need less of them for the same amout of light. They could have 'engineered' the output, or purchased something OTS.
-Hank
When will the Flxible Metro be produced again? I would love it to see production again. Didn't MCI buy the rights to the design?
Yes, I beleive so, but they've yet to do anything with it. I guess they're waiting for the influx of bus producers to die down. They probalby won't produce a Flxible again until they're only about three main buses ordered by transit companies, the D40LF, The RTS, and maybe the Orion VII or NABI.
And what makes you think that that's going to happen?
I agree that the D40LF will continue to be popular; it is already the king of low floors. I'm a little uneasy on the topic of the NFI Invero. It looks like they tried like hell to come up with an attractive bus, but I think it looks pretty stupid. Thus far, the only order for Inveros is in Calgary, where 34 are slated for delivery in March.
I don't know about the current status of the RTS as far as order logs go, but I feel that NovaBUS is wise enough to keep the RTS in production because it is a tried, tested and true standard floor bus, and mark my words, America's transit authorities will NEVER completely stop buying standard floor buses. Also, I heard straight from NovaBUS that they have a comfortable order log for LFS's. I believe that CTA will exercise its options for LFS's; hopefully they'll wise up and get Detroit Diesel engines on future orders of LFS's.
I do not foresee the Orion VII doing well at all. The VI was a fluke, and when you think about it, only a few transit systems even make widespread use of the Orion V (albeit a few very large TA's.)
Also, another bus whose sales have quietly increased drasticallty is the NABI 416 standard floor model. When I first heard that SEPTA was ordering 400 of these babies back in 96, I said "what the hell's an Ikarus?!?" Even as recently as four years ago, not that many transit systems had these in operation. Now, Miami, Baltimore, and soon Delaware have/will have sizable fleets of NABI standard floor buses. Strange to note that these are all former Flxible strongholds. Overall, I like the NABI low floor model, the 40LFW, but some transit systems order it with features that really piss me off. In LA, Phoenix, and Orange County, their 40LFW's sport rear doors moved up one window position. What's the point? Also, if anyone has a chance, try to get a look at the back of one of the new Orange County NABI's, they have some interesting characteristics. I think NABI's 60LFW looks really cool, but none of these have been ordered yet.
Possibly someone can give us insight as to what's going on with Neoplan. Right now, I know they have several major orders of articulated buses going out, but I'm not sure aside from that. I really like their buses, I wish more TA's ordered them.
As for Gillig, I think we all agree that the Phantom is a pretty mediocre bus, but it will probably be around for a while still simply for its value. I am indifferent to the Phantom. And I HATE the Gillig Advantage low floor WITH A PASSION!!! I can elaborate on why if anyone asks...
Back to Flxible...
I heard an interesting story about Flxible which I don't believe is true. A somewhat reliable source informed me that when Flxible was on its last leg in late 1995, Gillig and New Flyer joined to buy Flxible with the alterior motive of destroying the molds for the Metro.
I think it would be cool to see Flxibles produced again, but honestly, I don't see the need for this to take place.
I say if we are to revive the production of a bygone transit bus, let's start producing GM New Looks again!
Neil
Why do you hate the Gillig Advantage? I never been on one before. Broward and Palm Beach ordered loads of them.
Miami-Dade has NABI's like I said and I think their rear door is in the correct posistion. They also have pull down "stop requested" cords unlike the tapes in the Flxible in addition to nice durable fabric of an attractive design. It would be cool if they ordered the 60LFW.
BTW I think NJ Transit will destroy the RTS because of the lawsuit pending with NovaBus over their recent order of busses, which was made too quickly. Once NJ Transit wins, kiss the RTS goodbye :-(
Are Orions popular in Canada? The recent Orions low floor is a good example on how not to design a transit bus.
>>>BTW I think NJ Transit will destroy the RTS because of the lawsuit pending with NovaBus over their recent order of busses, which was made too quickly. Once NJ Transit wins, kiss the RTS goodbye :-( <<<
NJ Transit can't win if they rushed the order which is basically what they did. Anyway, Flxible didn't go out of business after that 870 fiasco. That happened fifteen years later.
Please see my previous post for a host of reasons that you, too, will dislike the Gillig low floor...
Yes, fortunately, Miami's NABI's do have the rear door in the right position. I agree that the pull cords are better than tape, but do not forget that these features are not exclusive to the type of bus on which they appear; either pull cords or tape are available on most any type of bus. Also, why did they choose to go to DDC engines after being Cummins for so long? I certainly think this was a good move, but I'm just wondering why.
I have a feeling that some 60LFW's might be in Miami-Dade's future, equipped with Detroit Diesel engines, mind you.
If Flxible survived the 870 fiasco, the RTS can conquer a suit by NJ Transit. After all, much of the woes of NJ Transit's RTS's can be blamed on the TA itself rather than NovaBUS. It also important to remember that the 870 was a new model when that case unfolded, and if it pulled through, a 24 year veteran of transit should have no difficulty in doing so.
The Orion V is Canada's answer to our ADB's. In the 80's, when sales of 870's, Metros, and RTS's were thriving in the US, Canada was still purchasing largely "unadvanced" models. The Orion V is really the first bus to come out of Canada to rival features of the RTS and Flxible. The V was released in Canada in 1989, and it was not really popular in the US until 92 or 93 (Some smaller US systems did begin purchasing Orion V's as early as 1989, though.) The Orion V is/was fairly popular in Canada, but there, the bus market is very regionalized. New bus orders in the west tend to be New Flyers, then Orions in Ontario, and NovaBUSes in Québec and points east. Interesting. I believe provincial trade regulations mandate this sort of purchasing pattern. The only reason TTC has buses from outside of its "region" is because they purchased them completely with their own funds, without provincial or federal assistance of any sort.
Neil
I do not know why Miami-Dade switched from Cummins to DD, but I will look into that as I also wonder about that.
I believe all of the 642 new buses are 40LFW. It will only be some time until the agency will look at these busses.
The Grumman/Flxible design survived and is strong as ever, but Grumman no longer made busses probably due to lawsuit. The RTS design will likely survive, but will Nova still make them, or will they sell the design?
If you are talking about all of the NABI buses on the Miami-Dade fleet, since they sorta can be considered new, there are a good bit of 416s operating. Also, what brand of destination signs do they use which has the bi level side destination sign?
Miami-Dade has exactly fifty 416's, 9701-9750, which, despite their numbers, did not hit the streets until mid 1998. They are outfitted with TwinVision destination signs.
RTS T80 206, I am able to finally answer the question about the engine choice in Miami-Dade busses. It happens I got hold of a dispatcher by the name of Joe. This is copied from South Florida Transit board. I will post the link in a later post. It is his opinion and not that of the county.
What I hear, and this is my personal opinion not the county's, is that we were very satisfied with the Cummins L10. But it was discontinued and the C8.3 and M11 was offered. They were pitted against the DD 50 in the 9300 series, 4000 series and 9400 series. The DD 50 won hands down. It seems like its a superior motor. The Cummins tend to overheat during hot days, although substantial modifications have improved reliability. Especially in the C8.3.
Fleet commonality plays a role here too. If we were to stay with the DD 50, with the Allison, there will be a time when our parts inventory will be more streamlined, thus a big cost savings.
And the DD 50 is also offered with the New Flyers, Orions, Neoplans, and Nova Buses, so we can switch supplier and keep the same powerplant.
Joe
Wow! Does this hint at the possibility that MDTA will buy buses from any of these manufacturers? That list of companies mentioned by Joe makes me particularly happy because he includes everyone but Gillig! Excellent!
How long will it take for all 642 units of the NABI order to arrive? MBTA must love low floors!
The 642 order will spread over a period of five years. So far I know 20 arrived and on the road (2001-2020), and a rumor that four more came in. I do not know yet when the next batch wil come.
I think Miami-Dade will stick to NABI low floor, at least for now.
>>>I don't know about the current status of the RTS as far as order logs go<<<
People are comparing the orders of the RTS now to the orders in the 80s when there was nothing really good on the market except Flxibles. Now transit comapnies want to try something new and there are also more manufactuers now then there were in the 80s. Alot of tranist comapnies bought the RTS in the '99-00 year and the others bought varying types of buses. I think there won't be another major order of RTS for a year or so because retirements will stop and current orders will be coming in.
>>>I do not foresee the Orion VII doing well at all. The VI was a fluke, and when you think about it, only a few transit systems even make widespread use of the Orion V (albeit a few very large TA's.)<<<
I only mentioned Orion because some people would get mad if I didn't.
>>>Also, another bus whose sales have quietly increased drasticallty is the NABI 416 standard floor model.<<<
I hate these career killers. They're what a D40LF would've looked like if the people at New Flyer hired eight year olds to design them. Whatever companies decided to buy these should've bought RTS buses or D40LFs.
>>>but I'm not sure aside from that<<<
Not much.
>>>I can elaborate on why if anyone asks...<<<
Please do.
>>>I heard an interesting story about Flxible which I don't believe is true. A somewhat reliable source informed me that when Flxible was on its last leg in late 1995, Gillig and New Flyer joined to buy Flxible with the alterior motive of destroying the molds for the Metro.<<<
That task accomplished itself.
>>>I think it would be cool to see Flxibles produced again, but honestly, I don't see the need for this to take place.<<<
Me niether, but it'd be nice.
>>>I say if we are to revive the production of a bygone transit bus, let's start producing GM New Looks again!<<<
The New Look wouldn't be the same in today's environment. It'd have to have top exhaust and one of the new engines. Besides, you know how some people feel about buses that have all the good looks of your average footlocker.
Fellows:
In regard to what Danny said, it's gonna take a lot more than a lawsuit from New Jersey Transit to send the RTS down death road. Plus, if NJT does manage to kill the RTS, there will be a hell of a lot of other transit systems pretty mad at NJT; they'll certainly be on -my- sh@t list.
>>>> People are comparing the orders of the RTS now to the orders in the 80s when there was nothing really good on the market except Flxibles. Now transit comapnies want to try something new and there are also more manufactuers now then there were in the 80s. <<<<
What are you talking about? In the mid-late 80's, there were not only more transit bus manufacturers around, but there were also more models available. Here's a list off the top of my head of transit buses available new in say 1985:
GENERAL MOTORS:
RTS-04 on its way out
RTS-06 on the horizon
D-Classic (Canada)
New Look (Canada)
VOLVO:
B10M Standard and Articulated
SAAB:
CN-112
MAN:
SG 310
Americana
NEOPLAN:
Transliner
Metroliner
FLYER:
D900 series
(production about to end, New Flyer is up and coming)
BUS INDUSTRIES OF AMERICA/ONTARIO BUS INDUSTRIES:
Orion I
Orion II
Orion III
FLXIBLE:
Metro A
870 (technically produced until 1987)
CROWN-IKARUS:
286 Artic
GILLIG:
Phantom
I'm sure I forgot some!
This and a whole lot more. Not to mention that in the mid-80's, most transit systems still had large fleets of GM and Flxible New Looks. There were also lots of AM Generals and Grumman 870's chuggin, as well as original slopeback RTS's (not just in Houston and Philadelphia either during this time period!) I was born in 1981 when this era was just getting underway; what I wouldn't give to go back and buswatch at age 4 with the knowledge I have today!
Compare this to today, where six companies and maybe a dozen fleet models represent 98 per cent of sales.
>>>>I hate these career killers. They're what a D40LF would've looked like if the people at New Flyer hired eight year olds to design them. Whatever companies decided to buy these should've bought RTS buses or D40LFs. <<<<
I disagree. The RTS and the NABI/Ikarus 416 are very different buses which serve different needs. Possibly there is an argument to have bought RTS's rather than Ikarii in Houston in the early 90's, but aside from that, most NABI's are well-suited to where they operate. The RTS is excellent for suburban transit service, where a squarer bus often fares better under high-traffic, heavy loading conditions. I love RTS's, but if I were a standee on a consistantly crowded transit system (and I am), I would much prefer the w i d e r features (doors, windows, aisles) of a NABI. Admit it 2150, your beloved Ikarii -do- have more interior space than RTS's.
My list of reasons to hate Gillig Advantages grows by the day. Where do I even begin?
First, these buses have -NO- character whatsoever. These are boxes on wheels in every sense of the term. Not only that, but have you seen the backs of these things? The taillights protrude uglily (adverb?) from the slightly rounded back, and those A/C vents are hideous! This makes the Orion V's rear end look beautiful!
I recall someone expressing a positive opinion on the even-level window design. This might look decent from the outside, but from an interior standpoint, this is very poor design. First, when you are sitting in the raised floor section in the back, it is very awkward to have the bottom of the window frame -below- the horizontal plane of the seat. You feel like you are going to fall out! Also, the windows are too low, so if you are standing in the back section, you need to cock your head down to see outside.
I also remember someone praising these buses for their "unique tri-level seating arrangement." This means that one row of seats is at an intermediate level between the low floor and raised floor sections.
What's so great about that? It does not increase capacity, and it only moves seats closer together.
Toward the front, there is some sort of weird bridge structure on the celing which parallels the front axle. It drops about 18 inches from the celing, and reduces visibility out the front window for passengers. It also makes it seem like the driver and the passengers are in two separate vehicles and creates a really closed and cramped atmosphere. This bridge also blocks visibility to the point where every Gillig Advantage I've ever seen needs to display the fleet number on the interior at least twice; once directly above the windshield for the driver, and then again a few feet back on the bridge for passengers to see.
Possibly the worst feature of Gillig Advantages, especially for transit systems with heavy loads, is the back doors. First, unless a TA opts for the "Advantage Airporter" (à la Hertz) the back doors are extremely narrow. Also, as with the Phantom, there is no option for slide-glide, the doors just open out. Second, the back doors are WAY too far to the front. They could be moved back a good five feet. This poor placement really screws up surge loading and rapid alightment.
I can't wait until I ride an Advantage again so I can discover even more horrible features and add to this list!
I challenge anyone to the following:
1) Justify any of the Advantage's stupid features
2) Try to come up with a list like that decrying any other bus (not gonna happen, the Advantage is the worst hands down)
>>> The New Look wouldn't be the same in today's environment. It'd have to have top exhaust and one of the new engines. Besides, you know how some people feel about buses that have all the good looks of your average footlocker. <<<<
Both of these adjustments could be made easily. I'm not saying we should fire up the T6H 5307A line exactly as it was left in 1986; it goes without saying that we would make the necessary adjustments to equip the New New Look with today's features. We'll call the new models T4H 5311A's. How about a low floor New Looks? (Just kidding, that's practically an oxymoron.)
Neil
¡Qué viva el subjuntivo!
[Thus far, the only order for Inveros is in Calgary, where 34 are slated for delivery in March.]
I believe the launch customer for the Invero is St. Catherines, Ontario, not far from Niagara Falls. I don't know how many they ordered, but they are due sometime in early 2001.
Me, I have yet to see what the Orion VII looks like.
I wish Orion would finally release a photo of their new bus; they're going to have to eventually.
Okey doke. I am an all-time fan of the Flx New Looks and the Metro (as I grew up with 76 New Looks and th 1979 870); these, in my opinion, are the best looking transits I have ever seen. They were both stylish and long-lasting. Despite the fact that 4-strokes are the only legal powertrains, I think the looks of these buses are still doable and far superior to anything currently produced in looks; they should be reintrodced to the market. I am curator of a museum that still runs the originals; 20 to 25 years later, they still run strong and look good. Long live the Flxible designs! Should you want further proof, look at our website; http://www.arcticboy.com/buses/savebus.html
I too liked the Flxible new look design but it had a few problems. Primary of which were severe rust problems which prematurely killed off many of them. Many of the rust problems could have been prevented by a small redesign of the coach without really effecting the appearance.
I also belong to a transit museum that has several Flxibles on the roster. Two of them, including the last Flxible new look made, had to be scrapped recently because the rust was so bad that the bus could never be restored (we'd end up building a new bus replacing all that rusted out). The others are in good shape but do have some structural and body rust problems.
The Flxible new look also was seen by many transit systems a GM wannabe especially since it resembled the GM. In fact, in later years, the bus was essentially a GM with a non-GM body. If you took the body away and compared it to the GM new look, there would be very few differences in mechanical and electrical systems. The AMG's actually had a little more respect from the industry at first because it was it had it's own design and layout. Poor quality from the early AMG's killed that respect off rather quickly though.
RDChilds
You scrapped the last New Look? You've got to be KIDDING! Surely it could have been fixed. It was a historical bus, for crying out loud!
Which other one bit the dust? I visited your museum storage in N. Olmstead back in August and liked what I saw. I really think you should do what you can to preserve these classic coaches, no matter how long it takes. I am curator of a museum here in VA and we have a 1976 New Look which is in bad shape, but we wouldn't even THINK of killing it; it has a historical place as Roanoke's first air-conditioned transit and one of the first new bus orders by the reorganized Valley Metro transit company, which still exists today.
PLEASE save those buses, no matter what it takes.
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
Curator
Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum
We had no choice. We were on rented land which we were being kicked off of for developement, the engine and transmission on 589 were blown, the body and understructure were completely rusted out to the point that the structural integrety of the bus was gone. The move from the location was abrupt and left little time for planning it out. Each coach cost several hundred dollars to tow and many were driven the 25 miles even though they should have been towed to save costs.
We looked at every alternative available to us to keep the bus but unfortunately the ruling from the board was the bus was to far gone to ever be restorable. I would have loved to see the bus kept but we have slightly different problems that your group has. We have over forty coaches, the State of Ohio has no use for museums that do not have the collection restored to pristene condition and behind velvet ropes, we've been vandalized repeatidly with little help from the local police in finding who did it, and funding is a major concern. Luckily the best of the collection is stored off site so they have been spared the damage by the vandals.
Our goal is to preserve but unfortunately things occur that are out of our control and until we can secure a permanant location for the collection, we're going to have problems in keeping parts of the collection. Unless our situation improves drastically over the next few years, we may be forced to part with 3/4 of the collection and keep only a few of the excellect condition coaches. We are trying everything we can to keep that from happening.
RDChilds
That's terrible! Surely you could have found donations; it seemed nearly impossible but a local crane and rollback operator came through for us. Believe it or not, help is out there; you'd be surprised what happens. All you have to do is explain your cause and ask for it. By no means do I condone imposing on individuals or businesses, but there is bound to be a way to preserve these vehicles. For God's sake, they're HISTORIC! Surely there are people there who can understand this; the Flxibles are part of Ohio history, for crying out loud. Do what you can to preserve them; the world has already lost its last Flxible New Look and that's a HUGE loss. We of the online community are your friends and we are worldwide; purge us and we will help as much as we can. It breaks our hearts to see such wonderful classics be killed due to lack of space.
Sincerely,
Fred Donaher
As a historical bus collector in Riverside California, please let me know what you think is not worthy of your collection and I may be able to make sure that piece of equipment is saved. My idea is that if you get rid of it, there goes that last bit of history. Email me or call me at my office. (909 684-5926, Scott I will make sure that nothing happens to them
I agree completely that if something gets scrapped so does a piece of history. If I had to make the decision of what to scrap at the time, 589 definatly would not have been scrapped, even though it was in extremely bad shape and wouldn't be restored in my lifetime nor my daughters lifetime, because of it's significance.
Unfortunately all museums at some point have had to or will have to make a decision like what the Ohio Museum of Transportation had to make. The Antique Motor Coach Assn of Pennsylvania (AMCAP) last year had to make a decision to let a Fitzjohn coach be scrapped as the body buckled and separated from the frame during the attemtped move to the museum site. Again, a hard decision that group had to make as Pittsburgh was literally the Fitzjohn capital of the country (according to Fitzjohn) and this was the only Pittsburgh Fitzjohn left.
PATransit in Pittsburgh used to have a historical fleet of approximately 10 coaches which were well cared for. All but 3 were scrapped by PAT, two went to a museum in Pittsburgh and one converted to a motor home by an employee after the administration at PAT changed over and decided PAT was to provide bus service, not be a bus museum.
I'll make sure the officers of both OMOT & AMCAP are aware of the offer if a serious situation arises and a coach needs to be disposed of.
RDChilds
There's a couple of old 6500-6600 series fishbowls in Boston the MBTA hasn't been able to get rid of. 6169 and parts bus 6069 are already up at the Seashore Trolley Museum in Kennebunkport, ME, as well as Flyer D901 9137(?)
I wished the MBTA saved the 7000 series Flxibles for museum purposes. They would have been really nice, although many of them were on their last legs anyway.
I, for one, prefer the GM design mich better. The only redeeming quality of the Flxible Fishbowl rip-off, is the rear end design, otherwise, the body and the glass panels are too square for me.
Yes, Motor Coach Industries (MCI) bought the rights to the Flxible METRO design. They also purchased thier parts department which is in full force providing parts to transit properties with Flxible's still in service.
There was talks and there still is talks of MCI bringing back the Flxible METRO, but it will not be called the "Flxible" METRO, of course it'll carry the name, MCI METRO. Also I personally don't forsee MCI bringing back the METRO until the "D Series Cruiser Craze" dies down. Everyone and thier mother is purchasing the D4000 or D4500 Cruiser Coach right now to transit properties, so MCI doesn't see a need to produce the METRO as of right now, BUT when the D Series craze dies down, I can definately see MCI producing the METRO to keep transit authorities interested in MCI as a Transit Bus Partner.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
"Long Live Flx"
www.transitalk.com / www.flxible.org
>>>Everyone and thier mother is purchasing the D4000 or D4500 Cruiser Coach right now to transit properties<<<
Call me stupid but I don't know which bus this is. Could you possibly include a hyperlink to a pic of this bus for me please?
Thanx, zman
It's the stained steel MCI buses running in NYC.
That is the D4500SS, The D4000 used to be the D3 and the D4500 used to be the DL3....
EL3 is now E45000
F3 is now F3500
G3 is now G4100
GL3 is now G4500
Regards,
Trevor Logan
MCI CRUISER
The D series is the most popular coach that MCI produces and has been for the last serveral years. You can't compare a Flxible to a D4000/4500 because they are different types of buses. Granted they are both used in commuter/express services but one is dual purpose and that is the Flxible. Flxible METRO's are considered a transit bus and MCI backed out of the "Transit" bus business in 1993 with the selling of their TMC and Greyhound Canada holdings. MCI doesn't want to be involved in the Transit Bus market anymore now than they did 8 years ago when they sold to NovaBUS. With this in mind the Flxible/MCI Metro will not make a reintroduction to the transit market anytime soon unless MCI decides to go back into the Transit Bus market. Now what might happen and this is just my opinion. MCI could sell the production rights to the Flxible METRO to NABI as an example. With MCI doing something like this is more realistic than MCI producing the METRO themselves. MCI knows that the transit bus market is booming since most of the buses purchased in the early to mid 80's are now up for replacement and are being replaced. With this in mind, MCI could have and would have reintroduced the METRO already and would have made a place for themselves once again in the Transit Bus market. But why produce a product that would cut into the success of your own top selling product? That is mindset of MCI and this is why I feel we will not see the Flxible METRO produced by the current owner ever!
Peace & Blessings!
Season's Greatings to all!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
And that's what I was saying in my comments, in my own way!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I used to live in Long Beach growing up as a teenager.
When I was there we had
1977 Flxible New Looks with 6v71 engines(high 140's and 150's I think)
1987 Gillig Phantom 35' with 6v71N engines(high 150's, low 160's)
1990 Gillig Phanton 30' with 6v92N(?) engines(low 160's to mid 160's)
early '80s RTS 35'with 6v92N(?) engines
When I was last there there were new 1996 30' Gilligs but do not know the engine.
I need updates or something and correct information. Also I need old rosters if you remember what they had in the past. I remember baby GMC New Looks of a long time ago.
1977 Flxibles were 148 - 155
The one and only RTS was 156 (sorry, unable to confirm engine type)
The 1987 Gilligs are 158-161 (model 3596TB6V71N)
The 1990 Gilligs are 162-165 (model 3096TB6V92)
The 1997 Gilligs are 166-168 (model C21A096N4 - Cummins M11 engine)
To comment on the Gilligs, the ones in Long Beach has one on the most unrefined sounding engines available on transit busses. How does Gillig take one of the best engines available on transit and make them sound like crap? That while GMC/TMC takes the same engines and make it sound so, so good is beyond me. I know it is the muffler, exaust, and stuff like that. But their engines could of sounded a lot better than they do.
The 6v71 version sounds like is is laboring hard, bellowing, whining, crying, you name it. Also, you can hear the annoying beep for the kneeling feature. How Long Beach buys it is beyond me.
The 6v92 version also sounds horrible.
Can't comment on the Cummins version, although they are the first busses with elctronic destination signs.
I would like to add that LB bought the only brand new RTS in Long Island. Too bad they only bought one. Does LI BUS have some used RTS's? I thought they bought some used from NYC.
LI Bus had a number of former NYCT RTS's but weren't used in local service, usually just for LIRR shuttle service. They were all retired/scrapped sometime early this year. I'm not sure how to set a hyperlink here but you can go to the following website to see 2 pics of RTS's in LI Bus livery: http://www.geocities.com/transit_world6/Rich_Herman/LIB_RTS_4206.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/transit_world6/Rich_Herman/LIB_RTS_4597.jpg
They did run them in regular service on the N31 and N32. I rode these buses.
They were also used on the N22A
A pilot program to equip some M4 and Q32 buses with transmitters to activate green turn arrows on traffic lights is discussed in a story in Tuesday's Daily News.
The way the article reads, it makes it sound as though this is a new thing. It's been around for a while. Pittsburgh has had the activators on it's buses from one Division since the early 90's and the testing was successful. The various municipalites along the routes that were tested fought it as they felt it would cause more of a traffic headache (like the local police can run the lights any better around here during rush hour. lol) so the project pretty much died.
It's a great idea though and I hope it succeeds in NYC.
RDChilds
Click here for a press release from the Governor's office.
The day the Orion is as dominant as the RTS is now is the day I run naked throught the streets of Hollywood.
How ironic that Orion is in New York.
[Orion Bus Industries is owned by Freightliner, LLC, a unit of Daimler Chrysler. The company employs over 800 workers in Oneida County.]
When did Freightliner buy out Orion?
Great!
Now, if we could only see a picture of this all-new Orion model...
If I'm not mistaken, the MBTA also has 2 Orion VI HEPs at the Charlestown garage. I rode the 87 Clarendon Hill, and it's a nice sweet ride, if you don't mind the whine of the engine.
I think the MBTA is about ready to purchase a whole new fleet to retire the 1984-85 RTS 03s. The manufacturer is supposedly Neoplan (I don't know this for sure!), with a fleet of AN-440s and AN-460s, but in my honest opinion, a fleet of New Flyers or a fleet of Orion Vs would fit the bill nicely.
Some of the retired RTSs from NYCTA were sent to Paul Revere Transportation, blue stripe intact, but the numbers were changed to the 94XX series.
Brian Colby
Yesterday at 108 St and HH Expwy East, I saw 3967 with Christmas Decorations on her and right behind 3967 was 9264 I believe had Jamaica Decals on her. No ads were on 9264. The end is near for the 1982-1985 Express RTS ;( They'll always live on in my opinion-just like the Flxibles and Fishbowls do :)
X64#1755Gary
Here is a memory that may strike a nerve in people. The old Blitz Express buses (the #5500's series) used to run from Yukon depot in Staten Island. They were pulled to be put to UP for local service? Want to know why? Apparently on a trip back to SI on the X17, a passanger was sitting on top of the back wheel. The bus hit a bump and the bottom came up. The pieces of the buses hit the passagener and the guy lost his eye. I thought these buses would be pulled permantly, but to UP they went
Not exactly. What happened was an axle cracked from fatigue, and went through the floor. IIRC, no one lost an eye. The buses were pulled, along with some RTS that used the same axles, from x-bus service.
-Hank
Didn't it have something to do with the regrooved tire on that axle too? Didnt that come through the floor too???
someone indeed lost an eye. also the bus driver subsequently suffered a stroke and wound up in a nursing home.
This morning while driving the M31 line heading eastbound around 9:40 AM,I spotted Staten Island MCI # 2139 heading westbound out of service sporting a BX 13 YANKEE STD destination sign.
The operator probably made a mistake while entering a code, or maybe he just felt like throwing up something different while operating out of service. It's really not that unusual since any route in the system can be displayed on any bus in the system.
BIG AL
That's nothing, compared to the bus drivers who leave "Emergency - Call T Police - 222-1212" on their destination sign (and those green flashing lights) when there's no emergency, and the drivers who put in a destination sign for 215 Quincy Center and the little old lady asks, "When's the next bus to Ashmont?"
I know I asked this already - and my apologies for the duplicate post. - but I forgot or deleted the address from my computer -
Someone told me there is a bus that goes to Edgewater Storage. Which one and what stop (cross street).
Also - My sincere wish to all at BusTalk for a healthy happy holiday season.
flx7595
s51 from st george ferry. tell the driver you want to get off at edgewater plaza. the ez pass office is located there. buses are behind and next to the building.
Either the S51 on Bay Street or the SIRT station at Clifton.
RTS 367 for Queens Service in a Best Buy rap is peeling off. Great to see it past my work yesterday with the back quarter panel (entrance side) flapping in the wind. You never guess this stuff is a wrap until they start to come off. >G<
Better get that bus some sun tan lotion to stop the peeling!!
Queens Service?? Queens Surface, it's too early I need coffee. And see all the other spelling errors I made too. UGH!!
LOL! QS 384 has her wrap peeling off along with GL 5503. It's time for those to get replaced. QS 338 and 355 are the other 2 buses with Best Buy wraps-they look ok to me. Had 350 tonight on the Q104 and she had a wrap for a long time-not any more. Same goes for 351, 354 363, 366, 372, 376-also on Q104 tonight, 379-380 and 386-387.
Q104#384Gary
I had an odd dream last night where I came on here and found out to my horror, PA1767 was being scrapped. It had been sent to Carlton Storage instead of Edgewater, so there was no chance of it coming back. Then someone described in painstakingly accurate details of how it would be dismantled into nothing more than a souless hulk! Please say it ain't so! Someone find her!
In that same dream, PA1755 was still listed as active. Bah!
I don't know, RTS2150. Anybody who would dream about a certain bus being scrapped and finding out about it on bustalk in the same dream may need some therapy. BTW, I hope I was the one who told you about how 1767 was dismantled into a souless hulk. Anyway, speaking about 1755, your favorite bus, check out my next post under: More UP Novas to Jamaica Depot.
BIG AL
>>>I don't know, RTS2150. Anybody who would dream about a certain bus being scrapped and finding out about it on bustalk in the same dream may need some therapy.<<<
I probably do. I have about ten bus dreams per week. The rest are about girls and other typical teenage issues.
>>>BTW, I hope I was the one who told you about how 1767 was dismantled into a souless hulk.<<<
It was either you or Q5Merrick.
When I was a teenager, I only dreamed about girls, girls and more girls and maybe one about cars in between.
BIG AL
here on bustalk, you talk about the 3900's getting scrapped. Why arent they going in order with the buses? I mean, the 3400's are still running in manhattan (saw #3483 running on the M3 today). Shouldnt those go first?
Also, why is there no rts number buses between 8704-8748? is there a reason it doesnt continue. I mean, there is a 8704, and i think it starts at 8748. What about in the middle?
Most of the 3400s are gone, don't jinx the rest.
There are 10 34xx running at Manhattanville Depot & the number are #3469, #3471, #3474, #3476, #3481, #3483, #3485 & #3489. By the way #3471, #3474 & #3483 was in Carlton Storage Yard back in May, 2000 for few months & i have a pictures in my NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
Peace Out
David Justiniano
[Also, why is there no rts number buses between 8704-8748? is there a reason it doesnt continue. I mean, there is a 8704, and i think it starts at 8748. What about in the middle?]
The last in one series was 8703. The next series begins at 8750. Back then, it was pretty common for the TA to begin a new series of buses at either xx00 or xx50. If the previous order was not for a number divisible by 50, that would leave a gap in the numbers. In recent years, the TA has frequently begun a new series with the very next number after the last bus in a previous series (e.g. 6360 RTS follows 6359 low-floor Orion). To be quite honest, I don't think there's often much reason behind the TA's bus numbering.
The other example is RTS-06 5249 and then New Flyer artric 5250
Sometime in the spring, I'm supposed to make a trip to NYC. Give me some of the best routes to ride and if you can what buses run on them. I prefer the RTS, but am open to anything. I plan on riding NJ Transit as well so maybe Trevor will have some info for me as well.
Also, I'd like to know the longest route the NYCTA operates in route miles and also the longest route NJ Transit operates.
Any fare info will be helpful as well. I can ride the bus all day in Houston for 80 cents. I know it's quite expensive out there for an all day tour.
Sorry, I sound like Follo, but any help will be very much appreciated.
NJT Bus Routes:
Rt. 139 - 1 1/2 Hour each way - Equipment Used: MCI D3 CNG Cruiser
Rt. 167 - 1 Hour each way - Equipment Used: Volvo Articulated or MCI MC-9
Rt. 159 - 1 Hour each way - Equipment Used: Flxible METRO-B or Volvo Articulated
Rt. 181 - 50 Minutes each way - Equipment Used: NovaBUS RTS-06 or Flxible METRO-B
(Route 159 is out of my Garage)
NJT Rail Routes:
Northeast Corridor Line - 1 Hour 15 minutes Each Way
Morris & Essex Line - 1 Hour 45 minutes Each Way
New Jersey Coast Line - 1 Hour 10 minutes Each Way
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Thanks, Trevor.
For a nice ride, try one of our Express coaches. They use the LIE & Midtown Tunnel in & Queensboro Bridge out. The QM3 goes down Northern Blvd. where you can catch a #7 "Red Bird" train back to the City. The TA & Command run some Express coaches over the Gowanus Cannal ... another nice ride. NY Bus Service & Liberty Lines run some Express coaches from the Bronx to the City, also a nice trip.
BTW, When I have a meeting in Mahattan I take my coach to/from & then finish the trip via the underground ... just for fun.
Mr t__:^)
I recommend a few express routes.
NYBS - BxM7 (Co-Op City) - MCI Classic (or GMDD Classic) - If you ride during the rush hour you may be fortunate enough to get one of their great GMDD T8H-5308A's.
Liberty Lines - BxM11 - MCI Classic
Liberty Lines (Bee Line) - BxM4C - MCI 102A2. The BxM4C is actually a Westchester-Manhattan route (no stops in the Bronx).
For local routes my favorites are still in Queens. I'd take most of JAM routes such as the Q4,Q5,Q84,Q85 and even the Q17. They have great RTS's. Some of their routes go through da hood, but I get the feeling you can hang. Also there's (Queens Surface Transit) the QBx1 from Flushing to Co-Op City.
Happy riding.
Wayne
[Also there's (Queens Surface Transit) the QBx1 from Flushing to Co-Op City.]
Oh yes, I forgot about that one ... nice ride over the Whitestone bridge. On the Queens end you can catch it from the #7 train. On the Bronx end it goes by Westchester Ave. (the end of the #6 train), and connects with several cross-Bronx buses, e.g. B26, B28, B12.
The best part of this is you can do it for $1.50, incl. free transfers. Also, going from a local to an Express will only cost you a "step-up" fare of another $1.50.
Mr t__:^)
If you want the longest NJT routes, you have:
#319 between NY Port Authority and Atlantic City: 2 hrs 35 min, express via Turnpike, Garden State Pkwy, and Atlantic City Expressway, makes only one stop at Toms River/Dover Twp P&R. A few 319 trips are extended to Wildwood, via Ocean City and Ocean Drive corridor, so that adds about 1 hr 45 min. In the summer, Wildwood trips are extended to Cape May City, so that adds on about another 25-30 minutes. If you cover the entire trip from NYC to Wildwood, it's about a 4 hr 40 min haul.
319 is probably the longest in route mileage.
Then, there's the 317, but that's between Philadelphia and Asbury Park, which takes over 3.5 hrs, and operates over a lot of local routes.
197 is also a pretty long route, as it takes about 2 hrs to get from PABT to Warwick, NY via Willowbrook Mall, Ringwood, and Wanaque in Passaic County
Those three lines are probably the longest in the NJT system.
Also try some of the Red and Tan Lines routes, like the 9A (along the Hudson River), 11A, and 20 (to Palisades Center Mall, one of the largest in this area).
For the longest MTA routes, the longest express route is the X1, running from SI to Manhattan. You get a MCI D series crusier, too. Not sure exactly where to get it, though.
You ask about fares. If you buy a Fun Pass for $4 at a newsstand, you'll be able to ride all you like on local buses (and subways) for no additional charge until 3am. You'll still have to pay for express buses.
As for routes, I'll put forth a few Manhattan suggestions. The M5 is a nice, varied route -- don't miss the Riverside Drive run. The M104 is interesting. And take one of the crosstown routes through Central Park -- the M79 and M86 run artics, and of those two the M79 (eastbound, preferably) is probably the more interesting route. The M4 is a nice ride up to the Cloisters at its far north end; you can take the A train back down from just outside Fort Tryon Park.
About the M4, it goes by the empire state building and the Grand Central station, right? I rode it when I went to the Guggenheim Museum, or when I was coming from it. It's pretty annoying how you can't use any paper bills in the machine.
Yes, assuming you rode the bus northbound.
As for dollar bills, for the vast majority of riders (including most but not all tourists) it's cheaper to pay by MetroCard. I probably wouldn't notice if they took away the coin slot.
While using Metrocard has so many advantages, I personally feel that if a transit authority charges a fare of $1.00 or more, it should have the capability of accepting dollar bills. Tourists and other out-of-towners must often find this a big annoyance when trying to use public buses in NYC. Most transit authorities I have encountered outside NYC do accept dollar bills.
NYCT uses a vacuum system to collect the coins in the fareboxes. If they accepted bills, the bills would emerge in many tiny pieces.
My experience is that if you board a bus without change or a MetroCard and you announce your predicament to your fellow riders, one of them will kindly give you four quarters for a dollar bill or even a MetroCard dip for $1.50 (even though that's probably technically illegal). Contrary to popular belief, true New Yorkers are not at all rude.
>>>Give me some of the best routes to ride<<<
The best TA routes for bus riding are without a doubt the Staten Island express runs. Especially the X17. You'll get an MCI bus on this line. The line takes over 2 hours each way. Board at the first stop (E 57 St and 3rd Av) and you'll get the first seat.
Otherwise for local runs, here are my choices in each borough:
Manhattan: My choice: M98 via Lexington and 3rd Avs.(Limited bus)... Longest runs are: M1,2,3,4 via 5th/Madison Avs....M5 via 5th/6th Avs & Riverside Drive......M15 via 1st/2nd Avs.....M101 via Lexington/3rd Avs
Brooklyn: No personal choice. Longest runs are: B44 via Nostrand Av....B46 via Utica Av....Q54 via Metropolitan Av
Queens: My choices are: Q53(Triboro Coach) Woodside to Rockaway Park, Q35(Green Bus) Rockaway Park to Flatbush, Brooklyn, Q46 via Union Turnpike. Longest runs are: Q60(Green Bus) via Queens Blvd....Q44 via Main St
Bronx: No personal choice. Longest runs are: Bx1 via Grand Concourse... Bx12 via Pelham Pkwy/Fordham Rd...Bx41 via Webster Av...Bx40/42 via Tremont Av (The Bronx is artic country)
Staten Island: My choice is any express bus. Longest runs are: S40 via Richmond Terrace...S62 via Victory Blvd...S74 via Arthur Kill/Richmond Roads....S78 via Hylan Blvd
>>>>>Any fare info will be helpful as well. I can ride the bus all day in Houston for 80 cents. I know it's quite expensive out there for an all day tour.<<<<<
Single rides :
TA local bus cash fare is $1.50 at all times.
Private lines (Green Bus, Queens Transit, Command Bus, Triboro Coach, Jamaica Buses) local fare is $1.00 during non-rush hours, $1.50 during rush hours.
All fares come with one free transfer and you can transfer between any bus company (TA,Green,Command,Qns Tr,Triboro,Jam) within 2 hours except you can't use the transfer on the same line that it was issued.
Metrocard allows you to transfer free between the bus and subway. Cash fares do not give you this transfer priviledge.
Express bus fare is $3.00 at all times.
Unlimited rides(not valid on express runs):
One day funpass: $4.00 gives you unlimited local bus & subway rides in one day.
7 day pass: $17.00
30 day pass: $63.00 (though I'm pretty sure that you won't be staying for a month)
If you love the GMC RTS (and I'm sure you do), then you'll love Green Bus lines. They run a whole bunch of them on the following lines: Q6,7,8,9,9A,10,10A,11,21,22,22A,35,37,40,41,60.
Suggested bus excursion: Q35 from Flatbush, Brooklyn to Rockaway Park and change to the Q53 to Woodside. Total cost-$1.00
I'll be driving the M31 line from 3:30PM-12:42AM Mon-Fri effective January 15th, 2001. As soon as I know my exact schedule I'll e-mail it to you. Drop by and you can ride all the giant condoms, er sorry I meant all the Really Terrible Sh*t,(oops did I say that?) I mean RTS's that you want. We can even debate the pros and cons of your favorite and my least favorite bus.
Great! I look forward to it. I'm a great debater.
Look at this way the artrics when you get them aren't only going to relagated to the 15 are they ? I know that the 31 can constitute the use of New Flyers.
As of this moment the M15 will get the majority of artics. There is also talk of assigning them to the M35 & M116. The M31 & M57 could also use them especially during the rush hour when buses on those lines are filled to capacity.
If anyone is interested in South Florida Transit, please go to
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/southfloridatransit
You might have to register with Yahoo first.
You may ask questions about Miami-Dade county transit. There is a dispacther there to answer your questions. Also go back and look at the previous posts. Some of your questions may be answered there, but if you don't have the time to look, then ask. Me and Joe will try to get your questions answered. In addition, I will rehash some posts- present and past on here.
I would of done this a lot sooner, but I always ended up convincing myself that this is NYC/LI transit board only and you may not be interested. Anyhoo, SF Transit board was practically dead and I want to revive it. This will also be good in that when you spot bus 9424 in Miami-Dade, you can say "Hey, this is a 1994 Flxible with DD50 engine."
PLEASE KEEP YOUR QUESTIONS TO MIAMI-DADE ONLY.
I started writing (or actually planning) this series called power of Orion. It's about Orion-Bus, the star, who is fighting against this quite vain Retus-Bus who wanted all the attention and needed to take Orion-Bus out because of Orion-Bus's interesting personality and ability to change from his original design and stuff like that. Power of Orion thrived from the S Bus series, which was about this school bus who was trying to find his mother. I was just wondering if any of you had written any stories or drawn any comics or anything like that about buses or transit in particular.
I plan fantasy transit systems, sometimes very extensively.
On my most thoroughly developed system, I had a gigantic system map, timetables for most of the routes, run summaries, fleet rosters, garage assignments for individual buses, a history of the system, pictures of buses present and past, plans for a light rail system, interface with some of my other fantasy systems, and yes, even a fake "conversation" between two spectators of the system, à la BusTalk. It's pretty ridiculous, but strikingly realistic. I spent most of my free time in December 1999 working on this system. And to please you all, this system has both RTS's -and- Orion V's. I will post a fleet roster of this system if anyone wants...
Usually, if I don't feel like getting that involved with my fantasy systems, I just do the fleet. To date, I have concocted about 800 of these fake fleets. I was talking about posting these rosters to the web in November, but the way I was doing it, the HTML files ended up being like 400 KB each, so until I find a better way, these fleets will remain fantasy to me exclusively! Like I said, I will give a sample roster of the system I mentioned above if anyone wants.
Neil
I have a fake fleet right here. The first column is the model, the second is the number block, the third is the model year, the fourth is the number active, the fifth are notes.
GM Old Look/PA-PA99/1955/73
GMC New Look Demos/GM100-GM104/1958/5
Orion V HEV/105-174/1998/75
New Flyer D40LF/200-499/1996-99/300/450-474 are CNG
Nova RTS Suburban/500-599/1999/100/CNG Powered
New Flyer D40LF/600-699/2000/100
Nova RTS Suburban/700-799/2000/100
Grumman 870/PA800-PA1199/1978/400
GMC RTS-04/1200-1449/1980-81/250
Neoplan 60ft. Sub./1450-1499/1993-94/Dual Fuel (LNG/Diesel)
GMC RTS-03 Sub. Rehabs/PA1500-PA1599/1978/100/Rehabbed 1999
Flxible 870 Rehabs(Metro A)/1600-1699/1979/100/Rehabbed 1983
GMC RTS-01 Sub./PA1700-PA1899/1977-78/200
GMC RTS-04/1900-2199/1981-83/300/2114-2116 LNG and 2176 Methanol
Flxible Metro A/PA2200-PA2399/1985/200
GMC RTS-04/2400-2654/1982/355/2586-2645 LNG and 2646-2654 CNG
GMC RTS-04 Sub./2700-2799/1982/100/2729, 2770-2799 LNG
MC 9A/2800-2899/1981/88
MC 9B/2900-2999/1983/97
GMC RTS-04/3000-3299/1983/300
GMC RTS-03/3300-3499/1979/200
GMC RTS-04/3500-4599/1984-85/1100/35xxs and 38xxs are Suburban
Eagle 01/4600-4649/1965/22
Eagle 05/4650-4649/1979/50
GMC RTS-04 Sub./4700-4799/1986/100
Eagle 10/4800-4974/1984-85/175
Eagle 20AE/4975-4999/1989/25
MCI E4500/5000-5099/2000/100
Prevost H-345/5100-5249/2000/150
MCI G4500/5300-5499/2000/200
New Flyer Viking/5500-5599/1999/100
Flxible New Look/5600-5779/1970/128
GMC New Look Rehabs/6000-6799/1959-76/800/Rehabbed 1996-99
Grumman 870 Sub. Rehabs/7000-7299/1978-79/300/Rehabbed 1998-99
Flxible New Look Sub. Rehabs/7300-7484/1971-75/185/Rehabbed 1995-96
GMC RTS-03 Sub. Rehabs/7500-7799/1978-79/300/Rehabbed 1999-2000
TMC RTS-06/8000-8899/1987-94/900
Flxible Metro B and C/8900-9299/1989-92/400
Flxible C, D and E Sub./9300-9599/1993-95/300/Roof Mounted A/C
Nova RTS-06 HEV/9600-9699/2000/100
Neoplan 60ft. Transit/9700-9999/1996-2000/300
Total RTS: 4,655
Total Flxibles (ADB Only): 1,700
Total New Looks (GM and Flx.): 1,118
Note: All RTS-01s and 03s have sloped backs. All RTS-01s and 03s except some 17xx and 18xx, and all the 33xx and 34xx series have roof mounted A/C.
Well, there's my roster. Let's see yours Neil.
X68-PA1767 Jason
Listed below are the fleets composing the transit network of the fantasy region I described earlier. Vehicle batches are listed in order from newest to oldest.
COUNTY TRANSIT SYSTEM
4000-4029
2001 New Flyer D40LF (On Order)
40 x 102
Detroit Diesel Series 50
Sutrak roof-mounted HVAC
427-470
2001 Neoplan AN-460-A (On Order)
60 x 102
Detroit Diesel Series 60
Sutrak roof-mounted HVAC
3528-3560
1998 Gillig Phantom WIDE REAR DOOR
40 x 102
Detroit Diesel Series 50
3448-3527
1997 Gillig Phantom WIDE REAR DOOR
40 x 102
Detroit Diesel Series 50
3400-3447
1996 Gillig Phantom WIDE REAR DOOR
40 x 102
Detroit Diesel Series 50
3900-3917
1996 Gillig Phantom WIDE REAR DOOR
35 x 96
Detroit Diesel Series 50
400-426
1995 Neoplan AN-460-A
60 x 102
Detroit Diesel 6V92TA
Sutrak roof-mounted HVAC
300-319
1994 Orion 05.501-CNG
40 x 102
Detroit Diesel 50G
Powered by Compressed Natural Gas
9401-9418
1994 Orion 05.502
35 x 96
Cummins M11
235-259
1994 TMC RTS T80 206
40 x 102
Detroit Diesel 6V92TA/M
Powered by Methanol
2500-2655
1993 Orion 05.501
40 x 102
Cummins L10
- 2598-2603 reengined to DDC Series 50
- 2548 and 2651 reengined to Cummins M11
- 2652-2655 reengined to DDC 6V92TA
900-939
1993 Neoplan AN-440-A
40 x 102
DDC 6V92TA
Sutrak roof-mounted HVAC
9201-9241
1992 Gillig Phantom
40 x 102
DDC 6L92
9242-9271
1992 Orion 01.502
30 x 96
DDC 6V71
9101-9157
1991 Gillig Phantom
40 x 102
DDC 6L92
9001-9020
1990 Gillig Phantom
40 x 102
DDC 6V92TA
Non-Accessible
200-234
1989 TMC RTS T80 206
40 x 102
DDC 6V92TA
Non-Accessible
2000-2024
1989 MCI 102B3
40 x 102
DDC 6V92TA
Non-Accessible
8901-8930
1989 Orion 05.501
40 x 102
DDC 6V92TA
Non-Accessible
8801-8822
1988 Gillig Phantom
40 x 102
DDC 6V92TA
Non-Accessible
8701-8750
1987 Gillig Phantom
40 x 102
DDC 6V92TA
Non-Accessible
825-837
1987 M-A-N SG 310
60 x 102
MAN V6
796-824
1986 M-A-N SG 310
60 x 102
MAN V6
- 796-799 Non-Accessible
- 820 reengined to DDC 6V92TA
762-795
1985 M-A-N SG 310
60 x 102
MAN V6
Non-Accessible
8201-8255
1982 Flyer D902
40 x 102
DDC 6V71
- All active except 8208, 8213-8216, 8222, 8246-8249, 8252
TOTAL: 906
Sorry about all the Phantoms; I don't know what I was thinking. I would change it, but this fleet exists so vividly in my mind that I cannot picture it with anything but Phantoms-a-plenty.
After I figured the runs and schedules, I found that that fleet only has about 25 buses to spare during peak hours, so CTS also has a reserve fleet whose buses are pulled into service during special events and also during most rush hours for trippers and whatnot. Reserve buses are left over from retired batches. All buses have been renumbered to what you see here.
CTS RESERVE
6117-6121
1979 Grumman-Flxible 870 40102-8-1
6088-6089
1975 GMC T8H 5307A
6103-6110
1974 Flxible 53102-8-1
6100-6102
1967 GMC TDH 4519
6063-6079
1976 GMC TDH 5303
6057-6062
1963 GMC TDH 5303
6040-6042
1956 GMC TDH 5105
TOTAL: 38
Also, this region features two smaller locally operated municipal systems at the extreme east and west sides of the city, here are their fleets:
EASTSIDE COMMUNITY TRANSIT
1194-1199
1995 Flxible Metro D 35102-4D-1 (CNG)
1200-1205
1995 Flxible Metro D 40102-4D-1 (CNG)
1161-1164
1993 TMC RTS T70 606
1155-1160
1989 Orion 01.508
1043-1054
1975 Flxible 45096-6-1
TOTAL: 33
----------------------------
CITY INDEPENDENT TRANSIT WEST
3701-3716
1999 NovaBUS LFS 1CW40L
4101-4103
1997 NABI 416
3901-3920
1992 Orion 05.501
0041-0047
1991 Orion 02.501
4916-4917
1985 GM Canada T6H 5307A
TOTAL: 48
There's plenty more where that came from...
My biggest fake fleet operates some 16,000 buses while the smallest has but 4.
Neil
I do that to. I developed my own fleet called Citizens Area Transit-or CAt. I have timetables,schedules as well. I collect buses so i was able to develope a fleet. Here is my roster:
15 Flixible Metro
30 NOVABUS
13 MAN Americana
7 Mini buses
4 GMC T8H-5307
4 MAN Linenbus NL-low floor models
was looking for ORION V for HO scale, guess i got a long wait for that
Can we get original?That name is already used by the public transit in Clark Cty ,NV.They have an interresting mix of New Flyers(all 3 models Hi Floor,Lo floor and Artric:the hi & lo floors have a rear window)NABI Artrics ,Flexibles and ugh Gillags.They used to have RTS's but those were replaced by the NABI's
i used to call it Metro city Transit-then to MSBA-then to CAT casue it was easier to get buses in that design. here was my orignal lineup of buses (i have been collecting buses since i was 6)
45 Palm Beach GMC Motorhome-39 retired-6 repainted
49 Setra Coach buses-all retired-made in 1971-have 2 in storage.
15 Airport Coaches-1 in sotrage.
10 Sunagon-pretened they were the orignal Grumman 870 with the defect,so i stored them.
4 Greyhound MC8-retired
22 RTS II-02 -the hot wheels design-my first wheelchair buses.
10 Corgi Jr Mercedes Buses-retired in Dec of 1999 becasue no wheelchair.
Current Fleet
30 NOVABUSES -#151-#180
9 Volvo 40-Foot-#401-#410
4 Volvo 60-Foot-#411-#417
2 Mercedes Bus-#451-#452
15 MAN Americana-#535-#549-#536 in accident and cracked(dropped it-out of service awaiting repair).
13 Flixible Metro-#577-#589
16 GMC T8H-5307-#701-#716-12 retired.
1 MCI-#1869
7 MAN Articulated-#3001-#3007
7 Palm Beach GMC Motorhome-#6340-#6346
7 Chevy Transport Buses-#9101-#9107
4 MAN Linenbus NL-#9301-#9304-(#9302 and #9303 are CNG buses, #9304 on delviery)
and the piece missing-2 Grumman 870 due in 2001.
So, there are really volvo articulated buses around, as well as man buses? Where can you get them?
Volvo buses are made by Wiking-which i bought from ebay or from www.walthers.com.
the MAN articulated buses come from Siku, and can be found by going to www.diecastdirect.com
Are the minibuses the "van-buses", like the Ford Cutaways? If so, where do you find them?
i do not know that. they are chevy transport buses, made by matchbox. any toy store like toys-r-us would have them
And how would this "Retus-Bus" look? I'm sure not as interesting as a box. Would he have the power to outlive Orion-Bus, and therefore become insanely jealous over Orion-Bus's lack of durability and despise his own supremacy in the transit industry? You're off to a great start.
Well, my own story goes like this...
I'm writing about a guy named Rapid T. Series. His handsome good looks won him alot of sexy TAs. Well a jealous dude named Borion the Fifth wanted to take him out so he can win the hearts of the TAs. Borion didn't want to be an evil guy, but after changing his looks so many times and still being as dull as Al Gore, he had no choice but to go against Mr. Series. Will Mr. Series vanquish this dull footlocker like being and take his rightful place in the TAs hearts, or will the TAs fall for Borion's PR and propaganda like silly WAMATA-Jean Johnson did? Well, we'll see, folks!!!!!
Cue cheesy music
Well, of course, Retus-Bus is an RTS. And, Orion-Bus isn't a normal bus from Orion. Maybe I'll post a bit of the story. And then you will see the true power of Orion.
Anyway, you were the one that sorta motivated me to writing this. I wanted to write an Orion-Bus series for a while, but you had helped me with the plot.
Saw NYPD Highway District #3 Vehicle 3301 also known as "Big Ken" the GMC Fishbowl T6H-5307A Serial # 0148 formerly CTC # 743 back at its home base alongside the GCP. It still has its old blue and silver livery. When I stopped there several months ago to get the serial number its driver and keeper "Sgt. Ken" said that it would soon be repainted into the new NYPD livery. It hasn't happened yet.
Happy Chanukah to all Bus Talk / Sub Talk posters. The things I have learned and the willingness of all to share their knowledge makes me proud to be a member of this fraternity.
May it continue through the holiday season and on through the years to come.
And have a merry christmas too.
from Steve Lowenthal and Family and our 4 cats
To all those who celebrate:
HAPPY CHANUKAH !!
Bill "Newkirk"
You too. Hmmm, my candle's still burning after about five hours. I wonder if it'll last a full eight days at this rate.
Let me add my voice for a wonderful Chanukah to all.
The same here-Happy Holidays to all
Happy Chanuka
Happy Chanukka
Happy Chanukah
Happy Chanukkah
Happy Hanukah
Happy Hanuka
Happy Hanukkah
Happy Hanukka
(I've never seen anyone speel it Hanuka or Hanukka, though).
Chappy Chanukah?
Good one :)
How do you speel it?............LOL. Sorry Tev, couldn't resist.(check your post).
on the subway side, we are discussing the big blackout and I have a bus question. Does NYCT or any of the privates have backup fueling methods for power failures such as a diesel operated pump or generators for the gas pumps.What about the CNG fleet- are there backup fueling mean for these buses or would they be parked uintil poswer is restored
Somebody upstairs must be answering RTS2150's prayers. Now that 6 Express Novas have arrived from Ulmer Park, there is more than enough buses to get rid of all the 1700's in Jamaica depot, right? Wrong.
It has been decided that some more of the 4000's will be scrapped also besides 4139 yesterday, so some of the 3500 & 3800 Express are being bumped over to local service. Today 3573 and 3874 were parked with the local buses in the yard and did local service. This means that the 1700's get to live a bit longer. Talk about luck. These buses have more lives than Morris the cat. (Except for 1746!)
BIG AL (or should I sign off like Gary saying)
Nimco #1746 BIG AL
(ha-ha)
Ha Ha! Don't you worry, there's another bus at JAM that's ripe with the wears of age. I'm sure they'll be another bus as "horrible" as 1746. I'm thinking 1755 and her bad transmission will cause a bit of trouble before she joins her sister in the golden highways in the sky. Meanwhile, PA1767 is still in service. I'm afraid 1826 may outlast her though seeing how instead of being shredded, she was transferred to another depot.
Oh come on 2150. Where's your sense of humor. You got to admit my new sign off tag is pretty funny. Besides, say what you want about 1755 or any 1700 for that matter. I think all the 1700's should have been scrapped a long time ago, including 1755. However, for the purposes of the bet, I will still put my money on 1844. However I still get a feeling they may all go out at the same time and nobody will win the bet.
Nimco#1746 BIG AL
Sorry BIGAL you lose--and so do I, because I picked 1844 as the sole survivor. Buses 1747, 1752 and 1844 have been hauled off to College Point Yard (Stengel's Annex) where they will apparently wait to be sold! Jamaica will scrap 4119, 4139 and 4355 because of engine problems. They are going to replaced in local service by 3573, 3575, 3869, 3967 and YES---BUS PA1755!!!!!!!!!!
So the winner of the Last 1982 RTS Contest is: PA1755!
Q85#PA1755 Mark
Impossible! They've scrapped PA1767???!!!! No one told me!!!! NO ONE TOLD ME ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why do the good get scrapped so young?
Well, I guess Gary knows his buses and that transmission tune up didn't hurt either. You go 1755! Keep sticking it to those ugly Orions!
I just realized something...
We may have lost 1742, 1745, 1746, 1747, 1752, 1757, 1760. 1761, 1778, 1819, 1844, 1846, and 1855, but no one has confirmed that 1740, 1751, 1767, 1773, and 1852 are gone. As a matter of fact, PA1826 is at Hudson Pier depot. And if 1740 is still in service, 1755 isn't even the last express bus in Jamaica, let alone Queens. Maybe the whereabouts of the buses in question can be disclosed so we can see if 1755 is the real winner.
Nope, I saw 1747 and 1844 operating yesterday on Queens Blvd. I saw 1747 in both the am and pm. I bet it's down to these 2 who's the last 1 standing? My other choice if 1755 is going or gone: 1747. 1819 is gone. 1751 1767 and 1852 are next to go. Who's after that? Stay tuned.
X63#1747Gary
X64#1755Gary
Didn't you read the news? 1755 is in local service. 1747, 1752, and 1844 are at College Point.
Don't forget the GMC-RTS #1826 running at Hudson Pier Depot & i bet u that #1826 will be the last bus heading to scrap yard in one or two months from now.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to Sub/Bus talkers
Thank you. 1826 is the one that I picked as well.
M6#1826Mike
Like I said long live 1755! I bet that 1826 doesn't even see 1 day of service when she's at HP. 1740-haven't seen or heard about her. So basically the only 1982 Suburbans that are left are 1740, 1755 and 1826-officially-and like I said it'll be 1755. Isn't there any prize for the person that successfully picks the last RTS Suburban to be in service? It's funny because on Thursday night at 710pm-while on bus 5505 on the Q60- I saw 1747. What a difference a day makes! Well, like I've said-these buses hvae to go sometime-I guess this is their time. RIP 1982 Suburban RTS! What is the next contest that we're gonna have? I may even think about changing my handle in fond memory of 1755-whenever she's sentenced to the big bus heaven in the sky. I'll think about that 1.
Q17#1755Gary
1767 IS still in service. She runs locals too you know. If 1767 goes then it will be 1826. Big Al says 1755 has too many problems while 1740 is still going strong and hardly in maintenence. 1740 was on the express runs yesterday and probably will be next week as well. The only thing that will get 1740 rerired is her number and that she is the OLDEST bus in the fleet. So, she probably will go first.
Here, the order of disposal as I see it; 1740, 1773, 1751, 1755, 1852, and PA1767 or PA1826. Besides they may never get rid of 1826. I have a feeling she's going to be pulled in the spring and preserved.
Hey that my pick & GMC-RTS #PA1826 will stay until sometime in feb or march & will be the last 1982 express bus.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Why are NYC buses called PA buses?
Alot of the older buses (Grummans 870s and 1981-86 RTS buses) were bought by the Port Authority, hence the PA. I kinda like the way it sounds in front of a number, like PA1767 or PA1826, the soon to be last 1982 RTS buses in the fleet.
Part of the Grumman 870 fleet and GMC RTS-04 fleet were purchased by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and leased to the NYCTA .The sme held fact for the MSBA(now LIBus)Grumman 870's and Flexible Metro A's as well as Westchester Bee-Lines MCI Over the Road Coaches
To add to Woodhaven Steve's post, NJ Transit also have buses bought by the PA of NY&NJ.
Sorry Mark, but let's not jump the gun here. 1740 is still running on the express routes as of today. I checked myself and it is still being parked with the other express buses. 1755 has been having her share of problems lately while 1740 is hardly ever in maintainence. I can hardly believe they would keep 1755 around for a long period of time to run on the local lines. The 3500 and 3800's I can see that. But 1740 seems to be running strong. I have a feeling this whole thing will be wrapped up by next week as my gut feeling is that transit wants to have all the 1982's of the road by 1/1/2001.
Nimco#1746 BIG AL
PS: 4355 was scrapped today. All decals have been scraped off, along with 4139, however 4119 I believe is still in service as this bus was definitely not in the building or yard as of 5pm today.
Bus 4119 has severe engine trouble. It may have gone into storage somewhere.
Today, 12/26, saw all 4 remaining 1700 & 1844 sitting in Jamaica depot yard parked with the other express buses with express bus signs in the bottom of the windshield. Nothing new has come from Ulmer Park for the last few days. Meaning the contest is still very much alive.
BIG AL
According to Mark's roster, 1747 1752 1844 3572 3833 and 3865 are in College Point Storage. I'm confused.
X64#1755Gary
On Saturday Evening, while passing by on the van wyck, College Point storage yard was EMPTY!!!!!!!!
Even the Viking was gone.............
998 was bought over by NJT and will be used by them. 996-997 as far as I know are in Lodi, NJ and await the same fate. Trevor would know more info about that than I would. Is 6179 training bus still sitting in CP Storage?
6179 was the only one there.
Didn't you read my post? What's there to be confused about? I just said I SAW THEM IN JAMAICA DEPOT'S YARD, ready for service on the express lines. Since I work out of that depot, I can give you a day by day analysis of what comes and goes. Today, 3865 was scrapped with the logos taken off. Nothing else has arrived in and nothing else has left. As much as I hate to say it, Mark's roster isn't too accurate this time concerning Jamaica depots inventory.
BTW: 3822 was towed out of the depot 2 weeks ago but I don't know where it went. Probably one of the scrap yards.
BIG AL
Pulled into the yard today at 7:30pm and guess what I saw. 1747 and 1752 still sitting with the other express buses! Haven't seen 1844 lately, but it looks like 1740, 1747, 1752 & 1755 are still going to be collecting $3.00 fares on Tuesday 12/26.
BIG AL
293 gets into a minor accident Wednsday, on the N27. It's very minor, and the car driver doesn't throw a fit and we are on our way after forms and witnesses are questioned by driver.
Today while passing Roslyn on the LIRR, see a 300 series Orion stuck at the N23 bus stop, with supervisor and police on scene. Police wouldn't respond to a breakdown, so I guess it was another accident.
I guess the combination of crazy holiday traffic and crazy drivers are leading to more accidents. Cars frequently pass buses on narrow two lane roads, which is illegal, but rarely enforced. I'm scared to think how many accidents LI Bus will have when the roads are covered with snow and ice!
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/railsandtrains
What's up with the NABI buses? I mean, why doesn't anyone like them? In my opinion, they are very nice buses, and better than the Orions and the NABIs. Neos, and NABIs, the luxury transit buses, not those little lower class Orions and RTSs and Gilligs. So, Why doesn't anyone like them? What are their problems? Why are they hated by SEPTA bus operators (yes, I know they are called drivers)?
I have no qualms with NABI buses; and the one SEPTA driver I talked to felt the same way. Aside from being a little short on character, I think NABI's are pretty solid buses.
Have you seen Baltimore's NABI's? These are as basic as buses come, paint scheme and all, but they look cool. NABI is making its mark on the east coast; I'd like to see WMATA buy more NABI artics and maybe 40 footers too.
My only experience with them are the one articulated order PATransit in Pittsburgh has. My only complaint I have on those are more PAT's fault than NABI's as they are underpowered and a more powerful engine should have been specified. They ride nice and look decent to me anyways.
RDChilds
Excuse my ignorance but what are the NABI buses and who makes them ?
Arti
The buses in question -- Ikarus American/NABI articulated 60-footers -- are a joint US/finnish(? -- I know it's a northern euro company) product. "NABI" is short for "North American Bus Industries," a minor player in the transit game. NABI builds other buses solely under its own sobriquet, but this one has the unwieldy "Ikarus American/NABI" moniker.
C
I believe it was Hungary. I remember when the first Ikarus arrived in Washington, they drove one up to the White House and the Prime Minister of Hungary got to ride in it and they gave them a police escort to the Capitol. Our tax dollars at work!!
The bodies for the newer NABI low floors in Miami-Dade were actually built in Hungary at least for the 2000 low floors.
If that's that Ikarus it's definitely a Hungarinan company. I remember those crappy 280s and 260s in Tallinn.
Here's a link with few pictures of them.
http://www.tak.ee/veerem/#tänapäev
Arti
I found the same link in English:
http://www.tak.ee/eng/rolling/today.html
Arti
I don't have any beef with the NABI's, I haven't rode on them much, so I don't qualify myself to comment that much on them. NABI has no relation to Ikarus. Ikarus USA, was the part Hungary's Ikarus, and they had facilities in Anniston, AL. Later on, (I'm not clear on the circumstances) Ikarus was going to close the plant, but NABI was formed in Hungary around 1992 with the purpose of selling buses here, and I believe that they sold buses under the American Ikarus name until 1996. NABI USA is a division of that company and they purchased the Ikarus 416 and 436 designs.
Have a safe and happy holiday!!
Big D
I didn't have the opportunity to ride a NABI artic when I was in Washington back in 1999. They are quite nice, though, and I think WMATA uses them for the heavier volume routes in Maryland and Virginia.
The MBTA could use definitely use artics, especially for urban routes. There are always complaints that the buses are always crowded, not on time, etc. Those complaints would disappear almost immediately with a nice order of artics.
That's true about WMATA. The artics are a mainstay on the 70 between Silver Spring and DC.
I do recall a few years ago when Baltimore sent one of it's NABI artics (9600) to Philadelphia when SEPTA was preparing it's order of 155 Neo artics.
What year are they? Also, they look okay, but I don't really like the engine. It's so loud and sounds like a truck.
I was in DC in '97, so my guess is that they came in '96 or '97, along with their (WMATA's) first Orion Vs.
Enginewise, I think with the 5200 series artics they either put in a DDEC Series 50-IV or a Series 60 Engine. They usually put the Series 60s in motorcoaches, but where the bus is 60ft long, they'd need a stronger engine.
Well, first of all, the WMATA's first Orion Vs came in 1992. I guess in '96 or '97 the first of the long lasting order of brand new ones started. Otherwise, thanks for the info.
First Ikarus/NABIs were in '95, I believe. WMATA's second order of O-Vs (42XX/43XX) was delivered in 1998. A '97 visit probably would have included the '92 Orions (9XXX).
Chris
All good info from Basman and Aerotech. I will add by saying that the American Ikarus 436 articulated buses do not have Detroit Diesel engines at all, they have Cummins engines, probably some sort of L10. These buses were delivered in mid 1995, there are 45 of them, 5201-5245.
As for the Orions, those first appeared in Washington in 1992, when the sixty 9600-series buses were delivered. In late 1997, the face of the Orion fleet began to change as hundreds of new Orions were delivered in the new paint scheme. Most of the 1992 models were repainted shortly thereafter. Today, only the trained eye can tell the difference between a 1992 model, a 1998 model, and a 2000 model Orion V. Interesting to note that the numbering series of these three batches is inversely related in order to the age. The oldest ones are 9600's; the "mid-aged" ones are 4200-4300-4400's; the newest ones are 2100-2200's. With the 1997-1998 order also came fifty 30-foot Orion V's numbered in the 3900's. The 9600's have DDC 6V92TA engines; all the rest have Series 50's.
Neil
(...whose favorite fleet in the US is WMATA's)
Easiest ways to tell the difference between the three O-V batches (without looking at the road numbers):
- 9600s have standard-issue plastic seats with vinyl inserts -- the same used in all Flxibles except some latter-day Metro-Ds. Their taillights are conventional-bulb, not LEDs (although this may change if they go through a second round of rehabilitation), and of course some still bear the original paint scheme. I think the sign boards were different as well, as were the wheels: I think the '92s have painted steel wheels whereas the later orders have ALCOA aluminum wheels.
- 4200/4300s have interior announcements, soft vinyl seats (as used in the MetroDs), and different signboards. As noted above, they have ALCOA aluminum wheels, and LED taillights on all but the turn signals, which remained conventional bulbs (amber LEDs were still too expensive at the time). They also have a metal hand-grab over the engine cover at the rear of the bus, bisecting the rear bench seats; the 9600s had straight-across seating for 5.
- 2100/2200s have a different fairing behind the rear window for engine exhaust, LED turn signals, and a few other running changes. I think the position of the marker lights above the signboards may have changed over the years, too.
Soliciting additions/corrections to this list ...
Chris
Great additional info on the WMATA Orions, thanks Chris.
Here's even more:
* The rehabbed 9600's had some interior changes. The large billboard panels between the windows were removed. I really don't know this batch too well. The only one I was ever on was so incredibly crowded that I only barely got on past the white line at the front. Too bad these have been mostly repainted; they look awesome in the old scheme. On the back, the 9600's have one tiny marker light on each side toward the top, near where the other, larger lights are. The most visible difference between rehabbed 9600's and other Orions is the destination sign. The 9600's have the Gultan/Luminator "Split" signs also seen on the 9300 Flxs. These are the most charasmatic Orions in the Metrobus fleet.
* Continuing with destination signs, the 4200-4300-4400's have Vultron's answer to the Luminator Megamax. These signs produce very distinctive characters, and they have a very cool-looking ODK. The Vultron signs are nice. but it seems like they malfunction frequently, if not just don't work at all.
* On the 2100-2200's, WMATA returned to Luminator Megamax destination signs, similar to the ones on the 9700's, 9800's, and 4000-4100's; only these are LED versions.
I also noticed that on the left side of the 9600's, the window at the front of the bus before the drivers window is the same width as the one on the front right before the door, but on the 4200-4400's and the 2100-2200's, the left window is very narrow. The destination signs work a whole lot better on the 9600's than the 4200's for sure!!The only thing I notice once in awhile is the back sign will display the first three letters of the destination rather than the route number on occasion on the 9600's.
oh yeah, I forgot about that. In New York though, it seems that all of their Orions don't have a little sliver of a window after the driver's window.
I just wanted to add that many (or most) aluminum wheels on WMATA buses after 1995 have been replaced with steel wheels. The new Orion V's delivered last year (2000-2200) came with steel wheels. I've noticed the the Orion II buses still have the alumimun wheels. That's the only thing I like about WMATA's Orion II.
Wayne
Wow, you people thinks an Ikarus looks nice? Wow, I guess oversized shoeboxes are the thing. These buses are by far the ugliset things to EVER grace the streets of Houston. It looks like someone went to a local Payless Shoestore, bought some shoes, discarded the shoes, kept the box, slapped on some wheels, the ugliest front I've ever seen, made an ever so stylish cut in the rear, and called it a bus! It's hideous! I'd prefer an Orion over that thing. The ones we have are fast, I'll give them that. However, they breakdown ALL THE TIME, and they look horrible after their first five years in service. But, that's just my opinion, even though I rode on a few today.
Basman, please, stop ragging on the RTS. I know you're just trying to annoy me now that I've broken you down in so many arguments. Putting it in a class with Orions and Gilligs is wrong and you know it. I might as well call SEPTA, SEPTIC (as in septic tank) for that stank set of buses you call a fleet. Do you like that? No, I didn't think you did. So, PLEASE, stop saying annoying things about the RTS and MOVE ON!!!!
Well, I have my reasons for saying it is in the "lower class" of buses, and i'm not putting it in the same class as Gilligs and Orions. RTSs are in their own class, unless you somehow put them with Flixibles because of the noticably rounded sides. I'd explain it further, but somehow you would twist the words to make it into something entirely different and you would get upset and cry and i would feel bad. No offense or anything.
Because of the same reason why train operators hate The M-4 Market-Frankford el cars; they are very cheaply constructed. The Ikaruses' (Ikari?)suspension system is already going to pot. The only cool thing about them is the panel that separates the driver from the passenger (the Neoplans should have them). So far, The Neoplan has proven to be a durable bus (and SEPTA abuses their buses so bad that they should be reported to The Bus Welfare Authorities), and SEPTA was smart to go back to Neoplan for the articulated order. Sure The Neoplan is not as stylish as the RTS, but I will trust them with my life. Kawasaki and Neoplan, if you go with them, you will have the best transit fleet in the entire nation.
My one SEPTA experience was in the form of a NABI bus, and I was blown away by that partition between the driver and passenger area. Very stylish. In fact, I liked the whole interior. The seat in which I was sitting was a little short on legroom, but it was comfortable nonetheless and the fabric pattern on the seats in attractive.
Regarding Neoplans, it seems like some cities have nothing but horror stories with Neoplans while the rest use Neoplans problemlessly. Look at Philadelphia vs. Pittsburgh. Even Pittsburgh has to admit, though, that after some initial problems, their 3500's were pretty solid buses. (Does anyone know if those buses had 6V92TA's or 6V71's?)
I am very anxious to see SEPTA's New Flyers which are on order for 2000. Does anyone know the specs of these buses?
I agree that it was a wise move on SEPTA's part to return to Neoplan for the artics. I would not be surprised if they go back to good ol' Neoplan for standard buses in the not too distant future, although this time maybe 102" widths and better interiors.
I used to dislike the interior of the SEPTA NABIs, since it seemed too metallic, but it's okay. The partition between the driver and passengers is okay, but nothing to make a big deal about. Although I like the seat design, they are still too hard, and if they ever replaced the suburban buses, they should have much softer seats, especially on the long distance routes, like the 105 (I have ridden the 105 from Villanova to 69th street on one of the 35ft BPs, and that was horrible for my bum). what I love abotu all SEPTA buses is the "carpeting" (I forgot it's real name) on the back wall. It was very stylish. Also, it's too bad you didn't get to ride a NABI in the times when they had that SEPTA logo on the back window. Why did they take it off? It was great with the buses, and I think they should put them on all of the new "big" buses they get.
Scratch-iti and people peeling the film off. It seems like SEPTA isn't putting the film on the replaced windows.
[Even Pittsburgh has to admit, though, that after some initial problems, their 3500's were pretty solid buses. (Does anyone know if those buses had 6V92TA's or 6V71's?)]
I believe the Pittsburgh Neoplans, like most of the PennDOT purchased Neos, had a 6V92TA.
[I am very anxious to see SEPTA's New Flyers which are on order for 2000. Does anyone know the specs of these buses?]
I believe it's a DD50 with a B500 transmission.
[I would not be surprised if they go back to good ol' Neoplan for standard buses in the not too distant future, although this time maybe 102" widths and better interiors.]
Neoplan is also one of the few remaining companies which still build 96" wide buses, which will almost be mandatory for SEPTA to buy, since some city and suburban lines require the narrower buses (109 between 69 St & Chester comes to mind).
It's interesting you mention how other cities have had problems with Neos. From what I understand, a lot of drivers in LA are complaining about the LACMTA Neos much the same way SEPTA drivers are complaining about the NABIs. Ironically, LACMTA is going with NABI for its future bus orders. IIRC, they have already ordered about 1000 low floors from NABI over the next few years.
>>>It's interesting you mention how other cities have had problems with Neos. From what I understand, a lot of drivers in LA are complaining about the LACMTA Neos much the same way SEPTA drivers are complaining about the NABIs. Ironically, LACMTA is going with NABI for its future bus orders. IIRC, they have already ordered about 1000 low floors from NABI over the next few years.<<<
TAs these days have to be some of the stupidest entities in operation these days. Why buy a bus that other people have had problems with and vise-versa? Buy RTS or New Flyers you morons!!!!! That's what people get for trying something new. I hope the NABIs are lemons so LA will learn not to order so many buses.
You know, RTS_2150, RTSs and New Flyers aren't everything. First of all, NABIs have huge front doors while RTSs have these narrow front doors, unless you get the WFD, which is ugly. I don't really know much about New Flyers. I just don't like the windows that seem to be tiny on the High Floor buses. Also, the TAs probalby think that the problems with the buses are merely the other TA's fault, which is why they get the buses anyway so they could say, "Ha, we are better than you at taking care of our buses." Also, about LACMTA getting NABIs, I really am surprised, since they are probably one of the biggest supporters of Neoplan other than SEPTA. Also, getting the same buses over and over again is boring, so why not try new companies. One might actually be good. In addition to that, if there weren't buses other than New Flyers and RTSs, well, frankly, the transit industry would be extremely boring, much more than it already is for some people. Besides, who are we going to bash for making crap, lol?
>>> I don't really know much about New Flyers. I just don't like the windows that seem to be tiny on the High Floor buses. <<<
I beg to differ. I, for one, think that New Flyer rigid, standard floor buses (model D40) are very underrated, and these are great buses for big city service. They have wide doors, BIG WINDOWS and spacious interiors. Even a rear window is available. The articulated version, the D60, is also nice, and I daresay that the artic is more common that the 40 footer. And please, no one try to point to Toronto's 6300's as a typical occurrance with D40's.
>>> Also, about LACMTA getting NABIs, I really am surprised, since they are probably one of the biggest supporters of Neoplan other than SEPTA. <<<
MTA is pretty much acting on any bid they receive nowadays (except NovaBUS, of course). This is a result of a court order which mandates that MTA buy several thousand new buses. NABI was just in the right place at the right time. During 1999, MTA had orders with New Flyer, NABI, and Neoplan all at the same time.
>>> Also, getting the same buses over and over again is boring, so why not try new companies. <<<
I agree as a transit buff, but for purposes of cost control, it is usually less expensive to have as few different types of buses as possible.
>>> if there weren't buses other than New Flyers and RTSs, well, frankly, the transit industry would be extremely boring <<<
Agreed once again. It takes Phantoms and Orion V's to make (some of) us appreciate our beloved RTS's and New Flyers.
>>> Besides, who are we going to bash for making crap, lol? <<<
I guess Gillig is good for something after all!
---
Neil
Well, as I said, i don't know much about new Flyers, and I've only seen them in pictures. It just seemed like the windows were lllooooooonnng but narrow, and I just love tall big windows.
>>>First of all, NABIs have huge front doors while RTSs have these narrow front doors, unless you get the WFD, which is ugly.<<<
I personally don't see what's so good about large doors. But, it's possible for an RTS to have a WFD without resorting to killing it's good looks. The current WFD RTS is THE ugliest piece of tin on the road today, bar none. Therefore, I shall call it Orion-Ikarus, because someone from one of those two companies, who are quite adept at turning out some hideous designs, must have influenced this model.
The RTS could have a WFD by inserting the intercity coach style front door on the bus. That solves all the problems right there.
hehe, you haev to admit it. Neither Orion nor Ikarus influenced it. besides, the thing about the large front door that makes it an advantage is that people could leave the bus and get on the bus at the same tiem without having to squeeze through. A large back door isn't necessary because people only exit at the back door. A large front door should be necessary because people both enter and exit at the fron door. Sure, people aren't suppose to on most transit companies, but who follows that rule? That's why I think that large front dors are important. I also agree with you on the fact that the RTS could have a WFD without changing the basic design to make it look so ugly. Couldn't they just move the front wheel back a few inches? Also, wehn you say the intercity doors, do you mean that single panel door tht swing's out? That is still too narrow. I mean having a wider doorway and stairway to board. In addition to that, isn't it easier for drivers to take wheelchair passengers by the front door rather than the rear?
Oh, I forgot about those pieces of junk WMATA had. They only ran on certain routes so I didn't see them a whole lot.
I never knew they had existed until I saw a picture of one in The Story of Metro book that I took out of the library one day. What year were they?
WMATA's Neoplans were 1983 AN-440-A models. They were numbered in the 9500's, and I think there were 75 of them. I saw a small picture of one once, I think it had roof-mounted a/c and it looked awesome. WMATA should give Neoplan another chance. Neoplan's wide variety of buses would be great for WMATA. Imagine regular buses (all lenghts), low floors, suburban coaches, and artics all from the same supplier!
Neil
..."If transit systems were girls, WMATA would be hot as hell."
--a friend of mine reminded me today that I said this
about a year ago.
Imagine regular buses (all lenghts), low floors, suburban coaches, and artics all from the same supplier!
There are advantages to all one supplier and disadvantages as well.
The main advantage is that of parts inventory. I have always, until the past ten years or so, thought as you have, systems should standardize on a manufacturer for the sole purpose of parts. Recently however I've been shifting the opposite way in favor of more diversity.
Why? Running with one manufacturer is betting your whole entire operation on that one company. If the buses of that one manufacturer start failing prematurely, guess what? Your operation is screwed royally. Fed funds won't replace those buses until they hit the magic age and if they start falling apart 6 years in on a 12 year bus with a 5 year warranty, your stuck. Sure there are legal loopholes to jump through to get around it but in the short term you can't meet service.
The advantage of a smaller parts supply doesn't out weigh the risk of betting your service on one manufacturer. After experiencing first hand (for many years now) missed trips due to coach shortages because of manufacturing defects on a series of coach that the system had as half it's fleet, I strongly favor companies running multiple manufacturers.
RDChilds
>>> I strongly favor companies running multiple manufacturers. <<<
As do I, but I was just purveying the explanation which I have heard from several transit GM's.
Well, aren't all Neoplan buses equipped with overhead air conditioning units? I've never seen one without it and having a rear a/c unit before.
>>> Well, aren't all Neoplan buses equipped with overhead air conditioning units? I've never seen one without it and having a rear a/c unit before. <<<
Neoplan offers its customers the choice between roof-mounted or rear-mounted air conditioning. There are many Neoplan AN-440-A's with rear-mounted a/c, for instance the original 3300-series Neos in Los Angeles. Scattered 35-foot Neos at smaller TA's also commonly have rear-mounted a/c.
I had thought that all Pennliners sported roof-mounted a/c, but recently, someone posted a picture of PAT 3509 to alt.binaries.pictures.vehicles. This bus did -not- have roof-mounted a/c. Seeing as 3509 is only the tenth bus in an order for 410, maybe the first few had rear-mounted a/c and the rest had roof-mounts.
I much prefer roof-mounted air conditioning. It works better, is easier to maintain, and makes the bus look more European (which I consider to be a plus.)
Roof-mounted air conditioning is also available on New Flyers, NABI's, and NovaBUSes. It is also the only a/c arrangement available for the Orion II. One batch of Orion V's in Ottawa features roof-mounted Sutrak a/c, but other than that, I have not seen roof-mounts on any other Orion V's.
Neil
I think that the roof-mounted a/c units are much more effective than the rear mounted a/c units .An example of that from the NYCTA would be when they the remanufactured GM/blitz fishbowls and presently the New Flyer Artrics .These buses are much more cooler than the RTS's or Orion's.
I believe that only the SEPTA Neoplans from the 1000 bus Pennliner order had roof mounted A/C. The rest had rear mounted. Also, the Erie Metropolitan Transit Authority had Pennliners from the 1000 bus order with no A/C (that's right, NO A/C what so ever).
RDChilds
>>> I believe that only the SEPTA Neoplans from the 1000 bus Pennliner order had roof mounted A/C. <<<
So -none- of PAT's 3500-3600-3700-3800's had/have roof-mounted a/c? I could swear that most of those buses did. How about the 1986 order (3900's)?
Kudos to SEPTA for having roof-mounted a/c on every bus in the last 20 years, RTS's too! SEPTA Neoplan AN-440-A's have Sutrak a/c, the Ikarii have Carrier units. I cannot identify the brand of a/c on the 7100-7200's.
The only buses that PAT has ever had that has roof mounted A/C are the handful of Neoplan artics they got in last year. The current crop of Neoplan low floors (5000 series) look as though they have roof mounted A/C but that cowling conceals the air tank for the starter (no room underneath to place it so Neoplan roof mounted the starter tanks).
The 3500, 3600, 3700, 3800 and 3900 Neoplans never had roof mounted A/C. The roof mounted A/C's that PAT's LRV's have on them do leak and I've heard of many other cities that have had similar problems after a few years with roof leaks when it rains.
RDChilds
They are Sutraks as well on the articulateds.
I liek the roof mounted ones. You are right under the a/c and also it seems to cool the bus faster I guess. In addition to that, you can put full sized posters, like SEPTA does now. However, I wish that SEPTA would get rear route number signs (I think they would be very good) but I guess because of previous problems with them and because of the posters, they don't use them.
RTS_2150, I sincerely hope that you do not envision an RTS with a single-panel front door; sliding, swinging, or otherwise. That would be hideous. That's also not the kind of talk I expect from a fellow RTS advocate. I have always thought that half the beauty of an RTS is the way that those outward-pantographing doors so smoothly parallel the curvaceous body contours of the bus. I think RTS's are more attractive than some women!
Really, the current WFD design is not that bad. I agree that it is ugly, but the looks of it could be majorly improved if the windshield/destination sign area were the same as it is on a regular RTS. This would be an easy adjustment to make. The first release of the RTS-08, manufacturered between 1990 and 1992 and seen only at 3 TA's, looks a lot like an RTS-06, especially from a distance. I would have to say that the ugliest is the second release.
Don't knock the RTS's rear door wheelchair access without knowing the reasons behind it. In designing the RTS, GM did not just put the lift at the back for the hell of it. The thinking was that by having the lift at the rear, it would not be damaged in front-impact accidents. Some transit systems agree, so most other buses are now also available with rear door wheelchair access, including Gillig Phantoms and Orion V's.
Also, never underestimate the importance of a wide back door; that's a lesson the US's TA's could stand to learn from their Canadian counterparts. On busy, high-traffic routes, a sizable stream of riders can really flow freely through a wide and/or double-stream back door, rather than the single-file exit technique familiar to most American transit riders.
With doors, I always say "the wider the better," especially true on city routes. With the RTS, I am willing to compromise front door width for that kind of styling.
Neil
>>>RTS_2150, I sincerely hope that you do not envision an RTS with a single-panel front door; sliding, swinging, or otherwise. That would be hideous.<<<
It would look better than the current WFD Orion-Ikarus roaming the streets. Besides, the MCI E Series coaches have them and they look like giant cousins of the RTS and their beautiful.
>>>That's also not the kind of talk I expect from a fellow RTS advocate. I have always thought that half the beauty of an RTS is the way that those outward-pantographing doors so smoothly parallel the curvaceous body contours of the bus.<<<
It's the only solution I could think of without making the doors hideously obese and ugly. I still don't see why a lift couldn't fit into the current front doors of an RTS. Houston's old Grumman's had lifts but they were taking out after remanufacturing. Wider is not better for an RTS.
>>>I think RTS's are more attractive than some women!<<<
I thought I was the only one who thought that! They sound better too!
>>>RTS_2150, I sincerely hope that you do not envision an RTS with a single-panel front door; sliding, swinging, or otherwise. That would be hideous.<<<
It would look better than the current WFD Orion-Ikarus roaming the streets. Besides, the MCI E Series coaches have them and they look like giant cousins of the RTS and their beautiful.
>>>That's also not the kind of talk I expect from a fellow RTS advocate. I have always thought that half the beauty of an RTS is the way that those outward-pantographing doors so smoothly parallel the curvaceous body contours of the bus.<<<
It's the only solution I could think of without making the doors hideously obese and ugly. I still don't see why a lift couldn't fit into the current front doors of an RTS. Houston's old Grumman's had lifts but they were taking out after remanufacturing. Wider is not better for an RTS.
>>>I think RTS's are more attractive than some women!<<<
I thought I was the only one who thought that! They sound better too!
Don't ever expect to see MTA operting a NovaBUS. I could not agree more that the RTS is a perfect bus for MTA; the ones they have right now are in good condition and are popular with the drivers and maintenance alike, but there is bad blood between MTA and NovaBUS.
At about the same time that problems with the Methanol-powered 1993 RTS's started to turn up, NovaBUS was just taking over production of the RTS, and was the new kid on the block of transit bus manufacturers. MTA turned to NovaBUS for help with replacement parts and whatnot, citing the fact that NovaBUS took over every facet of the RTS from TMC, aftermarket support included.
Stubbornly, NovaBUS refused to assist MTA with their problematic RTS's, insisting that engine problems were not their responsibility. As a result, MTA has vowed never to do business with NovaBUS.
Bad decision on the part of NovaBUS. LA had always been a major buyer of RTS's. If they maintain their grudge against NovaBUS, they'll never purchase another.
Now, MTA is stuck with those NABI low floors. I'm not so sure that the NABI 40LFW is truly the bus of which MTA -wants- to purchase almost 1000, but they had options from the 7000's on top of the fact that NABI is located closeby and these tend to be less expensive buses. What I really dislike about MTA's NABI low floors is the misplaced rear door. Why any transit system would opt for this stupid feature, pioneered in Phoenix, is beyond me.
Supposedly, MTA has an order for 200+ New Flyer C40LF's, but as far as I know, only the first one, 5300, has been delivered. Fortunately, these have the rear door in the right position, and I did catch a glimpse of 5300; it looks pretty good (would look even better with black window sashes.)
If NovaBUS is wise, they will try to make amends with MTA, whether it be by offering to help with the 1200's or by giving MTA a good deal on quality RTS's, or even LFS's. If I were running a transit bus manufacturer, I certainly would do anything possible to get off the sh@t list of the second largest bus operating authority in the USA.
For RTS fans in LA, it's still going to be a while before the last current RTS is gone. There are still almost 300 8200's active!
Neil
I still think LACMTA should still go for Neoplans, i mean, in my opinion, Neo's are LACMTA somewhat as well as Neo's are SEPTA. However, I really don't think NABIs would be great for them either. I have a question about the rear door thing. Are there seats behind the door? Also, in a way, weren't the rear doors of the New Looks and AMGs misplaced? After all, they were sorta in the middle of the bus, except for maybe the 30ft buses, although they were terribly ugly. Also, what I dont' like about all LACMTA buses is the metallic rim of the windows. Why don't they make it black like other companies?
Are you calling the Fishbowl ugly? The Fishbowl was (and still is) the most attractive bus on the face of this earth. They even still use them in movies and ads.
I'm calling teh 30ft version of the Fishbowl terribly ugly, since the windows were different sizes, and then there was only one small window behind the back door. The 40ft version and maybe the 35ft versions look great. No need to be offended so easily.
My fault. I stand corrected.
A Flxible looks better than a fishbowl. They have classic beauty, but they can't compete with RTS, Flxible, New Flyers, and HEV LF Orions.
Just out of curiosity, how wide are school buses usually?
RTS T80 206 wrote: Regarding Neoplans, it seems like some cities have nothing but horror stories with Neoplans while the rest use Neoplans problemlessly. Look at Philadelphia vs. Pittsburgh. Even Pittsburgh has to admit, though, that after some initial problems, their 3500's were pretty solid buses. (Does anyone know if those buses had 6V92TA's or 6V71's?)
Living in Pittsburgh I do admit the Neoplans were a half ways decent bus for looks, ride, etc. You can't overlook the fact however that they rusted out very quickly, even the ones Neoplan took back, rebuilt and sent us back started rusting within a year again. True this area is road salt happy in the winter but the Neoplan's should have held up.
As far as the Philadelphia and Pittsburgh comparison, at the time this was going on, Neoplan was literally living at SEPTA correcting problems while for the most part ignoring PAT. While most PA transit systems could keep after the rust to some extent, PAT had several bad orders of buses running (or not running depending on how you looked at it) that also required attention. The last of the Flxible new looks that required major body work due to rust, RTS's that had cracking bulkheads and were unsafe to operate, AMG's that had cracked rear frames. The only thing that held the system together were the older GM new looks.
Like I said, the Neoplan's look nice and ride decent but you can't just ignore the fact that buses shouldn't rust out after one or two years. That's a quality problem with the manufacturer and Neoplan should have owned up to it without having to be sued by PAT.
RDChilds
>>>RTS's that had cracking bulkheads and were unsafe to operate,<<<
Were these RTS-II-01s, 03s, or 04s?
Pittsburgh's only RTS's were TH-8203's of a 1979 vintage, numbered 2800-2870. These buses were not too popular with anyone. As far as a/c goes, I think PAT opted to "cap" the backs thus making them look like RTS-04's.
You answered your own question there about the RTS model. LOL
Yeah, PAT started to put the A/C caps on around 84 or so and installed windows that could open at the top. Prior to that, it was like riding in a sauna with unopenable windows when the A/C failed (which was frequent back in those days).
I do agree the RTS 04's on were pretty good after all the bugs of the 01's and 03's were worked out. There are a some TMC 04's running for suburban operators in the Pittsburgh area and they love them.
One more point on the Neoplan's which I forgot to mention. The 1986 order (3900's) for PAT were an excellent bus. Same model but a dramatic improvement over the 410 buses they received in 1983. Only in the last few years have the 86's really shown their age which is normal. My complaint was with the 83's which were really poorly constructed (many came without nuts to hold the steering wheel down so once the bus was in service for awhile, the steering wheel would pop off when the bus was in motion. Also doors were a constant problem until the motor units were replaced with the 86 design, the rear engine doors were to weak and would crack, not to mention the rust on the body and understructure...we didn't call them Rustoplans for nothing. LOL). One thing that did work on them consistantly however were the sanders which usually failed after a year on every other coach prior to the 83's.
RDChilds
Maybe these were the kinds of problems that the WMATA had?
I think that's right about WMATA. When they received their RTS's in 1979, they too had the windows that didn't open. In the early 80's, they put the backpack on and installed windows that opened up. Too bad WMATA never ordered the better RTS's that came out after that batch. I don't remember them buying anymore new buses, except the MAN artics, until the middle 80's when they got the Flx Metros. I guess with a huge fleet of GM and Flx New looks at the time, there wasn't much need for them.
What I meant is that those may have been the problems the WMATA had with their Neoplans.
Poor construction comes to mind. These buses have to have the worst suspension of any bus in history. Toss in some poor traction when the roads are wet, and you have the transit equivilant of a lemon.
When the Ikarus/NABI fleet arrived at SEPTA in 1996, these buses probably spent the majority of it's early months out of service. One of the running jokes around the Red Arrow shops when these buses were out of service was "This Ikarus is a Sick-arus." This was posted on the windshield of the buses instead of the customary "Hold" to indicate when a bus was out of service.
Initially, there were supposed to be 600 NABIs - 400 as part of the original order, and 200 as part of an option. SEPTA wisely declined to exercise the option on the remaining 200.
Saw an OOS LI Bus at Roosevelt Field today, one of the 300s, saying THANK YOU Dean Skelkos.
What is this about? Is this the guy who helped bail out LIB when the county couldn't pay?
I saw all over the Flatbush depot a lot of old RTS buses that have received the soft seat conversions. However, they are not all 1982 conversions. Some were 82 and some were 97. Buses 4497 and 3562 were of the 1997 seats such as those found on any MCI Cruiser. However, bus 3965 had 1982 seats such as those found on the 1700 exp series.
IIRC, they don't have the high-backed recliners that the later x-buses have, they're merely upholstered in the same fabric. Remember, every old x-bus served the SI-Manhattan routes first...including those uncomfortable montrosities.
-Hank
With Staten Island being about 10-15 miles from Midtown Manhattan, soft seats would probably be a requirement - I don't think people would be happy if they had to use hard seats!
We (i.e. Boston) has the soft seats in only 69 buses, out of a fleet of nearly 1,000 buses. People used to cut up the soft seats like no tomorrow, so in their order of 84-85 RTSs, they all went to hard seats. The 1989 suburban buses are the only ones with soft seats.
I actually remember riding on a hard-seat bus on the X1 when I was younger, about 7 or 8 (1990-91 roughly). My mother would take me on that bus to visit my grandparents in Staten Island. I didn't really think too much of it, but boy did my mother! All through the trip and after we got off, she went on and on about how her back was killing her! Now my logic would've been to wait for the next bus. This was during the afternoon rush hour, so there would've been another X1, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8 along in minutes.
More about X-bus trips with my mother:
She would shove 12 or 16 quarters (don't remember if the express fare was $3 or $4 back then, I know it was 4 for a while) in my small fist instead of buying two express bus tokens at the change booth at Chambers Street; We took the PATH to WTC and walked underground to Broadway to get the bus. Then when we got on, she would stand over me to make sure I put each coin in individually so as not to jam the slot. My mother is also person of routine. She is afraid of anything new. When the Newark Subway went POP, she freaked. When I told her that certain NYC subway trains would go OPTO, she freaked. A few days ago, I told her the tokens would be getting the boot. She freaked. Once, when returning from the city with her and getting on the Newark Subway at Penn Station, I purchased two Continuing Trip tickets for the #92 bus. She asked why I paid $1.55 instead of $1.00. As soon as I said "Continuing Trip", she freaked! I said, "Ma, all you gotta do is hold on to the ticket and give it to the bus driver - THAT'S IT!"
What can I do. I love her anyway. Ya gotta love it!
On a somewhat related note,
Last year, a friend and I took NJT #709 bus from Bloomfield to Garden State Plaza and he jammed the coin slot while trying to pay the $1.90 fare in dimes . . . this dude carried a large light-blue pencil case full of coins. You should also see him eat; he'll kick the ass of everyone at the Nathan's contest with flying color (and indigestion)!
Yes, I do enjoy people-watching. Some people like birdwatching. Some like whalewatching. I like people watching. I think humans are by far the most fascinating creatures on the face of the earth.
[Yes, I do enjoy people-watching. Some people like birdwatching. Some like whalewatching. I like people watching. I think humans are by far the most fascinating creatures on the face of the earth.]
That's part of the fun of riding buses (and subways, etc.) - you get to see so many real interesting people.
Absolutely.
People who drive everywhere can't seem to grasp the concept that some people actually enjoy interacting with others.
at that period the express bus fare was indeed 4 dollars and they would put a hard seater out if the depot was short express buses. the riders hated it. i once drove a 9000 flxible to manhattan. everyone said it wouldnt fit in battery tunnel but i had no problem. in manhattan very few riders would get on.
I am from out of town and want to take my family to Manhattan. Can I use a metrocard on express busses? It is a special type of metrocard and can I get it at a subway station?
What are the express bus fares?
For detailed info, you can go to http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us Express bus fares are $3.00 and you can use a regular, pay-per-ride, Metrocard on MTA-NYC Bus and NYCDOT/private express buses in the City. Metrocards may be purchased at subway station token booths, vending machines in many subway stations, and at many retail outlets in NYC. There may be some transfer privileges between express buses and local buses (and maybe even the subway), but I'm not very knowledgeable on this.
Welcome. Purchas a pay-per ride Metrocard w/ at least $6 per person. Then you can use it on the Ex. Bus. It will deduct $3 at a time per person and issue you a transfer (on the card) for either another express bus or local bus.
If you start you ride on an express bus with a Metrocard the X-fers are free to other express buses,local buses and subways,However if you start on a local bus or subway and x-fer to an express bus ;you pay a $1.50 stepup charge to cover the $3 fare.
Thanks. I went to the NYC transit OFFICAL web site but they only mentioned metrocard use on local buses and subways. I was afraid I would buy a metrocard and it would be unacceptable to the private bus operator who I think is New York bus service.
Nimco Scrap Yard, not too far from NYC....
Retus-Bus: So Orion-Bus, we meet again, for the last time!
Orion-Bus: Yes, and how fitting we're in a scrap yard, where you and your kind belong!
Retus-Bus: Ha ha ha ha ha! Look around you fool, what do you see?
Orion-Bus: Many a scrapped RTS bus, awaiting their turn in the shredder.
Retus-Bus: Defog your windshield and get the bugs out of your headlamps.
Orion-Bus: Okay.
Retus-Bus: Now, what do you see?
Orion-Bus: *Gasp* Orion buses! Thousands of them, but how!?
Retus-Bus: I partnered with GM and Nova Bus and we came up with a nicely priced package to rehab any existing RTS bus. The TAs were so impressed they sent all their Orions to Mr. Nimco. All the plans are in this suitcase. Ha ha ha!
Orion-Bus: Burn that suitcase! No more of you and your sleek, aerodynamic kind need to be built! Enough is enough and it's time for a change!
Retus-Bus: Change?! You've changed your appearence countless times and still look like the love child of a shoebox and a cube with all the personality of Al Gore. No one give two drops of high grade sulfur diesel fuel about you and your "change."
Orion-Bus: WAMATA gives a damn about me.
Retus-Bus: WAMATA's a whore, she'll sleep with any bus. She even slept with those hideous NABIs, they make you look like a Lexus.
Orion-Bus: She slept with your ancestors too.
Retus-Bus: And we used her like the garbage she was.
Orion-Bus: Yes, but who's in the scrapyard?
Retus Bus: Silence! I have someone for you to meet. PA1746, show yourself!
Orion-Bus: PA1746, but she was scrapped!
Retus-Bus: I rescued her and now she runs, just as good as she did out of Jamaica Depot!
Orion-Bus: You're garbage 1746! Big Al used to rag on you all the time!
PA1746: Big Al is dead!
Orion-Bus: What?!
PA1746: Well, not really. I just said that to distract you while I started the shredder! Bah ha ha ha hah! Look at your precious Orions now!
Orion-Bus: They look damn good going into that shredder. Wait, that didn't come out right. Well, it doesn't matter, I'm about to kick your bubble butted behinds!
Retus-Bus: Back off! All PA1746 has to do is whip off a panel and knock you upside your ugly square head. And I have a DD 6v92TA with a bad filter, don't think for a second that I won't smoke you to death, because I'm willing. Damn willing.
Orion-Bus: Looks like I'm going to have to use my superior accleration to overwhelm your outdated mechanics!
Retus-Bus: But, how can you do anything, if you're...melted?
Orion-Bus: What?
Retus-Bus: GRANDAPAAAAAAA!!!!!
Orion-Bus: Grandpa???
Retus-Bus: Meet my grandaddy, WMATA RTS-03 9076.
Orion-Bus: Impossible, you're should be scrapped too!
Retus-Bus: I saved him!
Orion-Bus: Well damn! Nimco's going to go out of business with you around!
Retus-Bus: Not with these thousands of Orions waiting to become the next Pepsi can.
Orion-Bus: Oh yeah, I forgot.
9076: What the hell? Since when did they put wheels on a shoebox? When did shoeboxes talk? Back in my day, the late 70's, shoeboxes were used for one thing, shoes. And furthermore--
Retus-Bus: Grandpa!
9076: Alright alright. You youngsters are always in a rush these days you and your fancy 6v92s. My old 71 could do from 0 to 40 in two minutes and that would make a young lady wet her dress!
Retus-Bus: For the love of GM, destroy him!
Orion-Bus: How's that old rustbucket going to destroy me?
Retus-Bus: He's going to turn on his woefully underpowred A/C unit and as a result it'll become so hot that you'll melt into nothing but a pile of liquid crap!
Orion-Bus: Looks like you got me there.
Retus-Bus: Damn straight. Grandpa, turn on your A/C.
9076: Alright. Ahhhh, I haven't had that on in a good ten years.
Retus-Bus: Bah ha ha hah! I bid you aduei!
PA1746: Hey, when that tramp 1755 is towed here, tell her I said I want my transmission back!
Orion-Bus: What, you were going to fast--wait a minute! I'm going to die!
Retus-Bus: Well duh! So long Onion!
Orion-Bus: That's Orion!
9076: Cool enough for you?
Orion-Bus: Of course not! Your A/C unit is horrible! Aren't you going to melt too?!
9076: After 20 plus years of this it feels like a nice steamy sauna. By the way, did I tell you about the time I almost ran over Al Gore? Well, me and 6607 were on the K6 and I sees a tree, well it turns out to be Al Gore! So I swereve into a ditch. Now, here's where the story gets long and boring. Me and 6607 began idling and idling and idling.....
Orion-Bus: *Groan*
Narrator: Will Orion-Bus escape the hot, underpowered A/C of senile old WMATA 9076, or will he be melted into a shapeless nothing therefore improving his looks? Find out next week on...
Orion Bus: The Power of an Orion!
Cue cheesy music and fade to credits...
Orion-Bus: Hey, wait a second. I've gotten out of worse jams before. If only I could use feedback from my voice announcement system, I could distract Retus-Bus and 9076 long enough to escape.
9076: ...and we kept idling and idling...
Retus-Bus: HA HA HA
Orion-Bus: All right, here goes...
A loud high pitched sound filled the scrap yard.
Retus-Bus and 9076: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
Orion-Bus: You guys should really know better than to mess with the power of Orion. Come on, everyone, we need to get out of here!
Other Orions: Where will we go?
Orion-Bus: Well, there are many companies looking for buses of Orion just like ourselves, especially this company in South Carolina. All they have are converted schoolbuses and RTSs.
Orions shudder: Ugh, they really need our help!
As the buses start to leave the Nimco scrap yard, leaving Retus-Bus and 9076 behind with their windows shattered from the feedback, Cruiser-Bus, an Orion I, and Neo-Bus, a Neoplan AN440 appeared.
Cruiser-Bus: Orion-Bus! There is this huge brigade of RTSs on their way!
Orion-Bus: What?! Where are they coming from?
Neo-Bus: Well, of course they are just NJ Transit rejects.
Orion-Bus: Oh, of course.
Cruiser-Bus: Oh no, here they come! Where is Felix-Bus and Gill-Bus when you need them?
Orion-Bus: Well, Gill-Bus might not be able to handle it. He would be pretty scared and somewhat helpless against all of these RTSs. Besides, don't worry. We have the advantage with the power of Orion.
Cruiser-Bus: Yeah, you're right, Orion-Bus.
As the fleet of RTSs came closer, Orion-Bus prepared himself for a great battle. An RTS took the lives of his parents a few years ago, and he would never let them get the satisfaction of taking the lives of his brothers, sisters, cousins, nephews, aunts, and uncles.
Orion-Bus: It's time for you RTSs to be mystified by the power of Orion.
Cruiser-Bus: That's right, Orion-Bus, let the power of Orion mystify.
The RTS finally arrived. One stepped forward, a former WMATA RTS bus. There were so many modifactions, the fact that this bus was built by GM was amazing.
The Bus: So, Orions, you think you can take us amazing godlike buses out?
Orion-Bus: Stop trying to make yourself look good. You know that beneath that rounded exterior and bulging face with that oversized bumper is absolutely nothing. Besides, why do you think Nova-Bus had changed your ugly faces into something worse if you are so "godlike"
The Bus: Oh, really? I wouldn't be so quick to judge, young bus. After all, you are but an Orion, a talking shoebox.
Orion-Bus: I may be shaped like a shoebox, but at least I don't go around acting as if I'm better than the MCIs. Face it, RTSs. You are no better than the rest of the buses in the transit industry.
The Bus: Oh, really, well I beg to differ. After all, I have lasted for 21 years, and not just because of my good looks.
Orion-Bus: Wow, that means you are way out of date. I'll have you know that not only do we Orions have voice announcment systems, we look better and act better with CNG engines.
The Bus: Alright, that's it. You think you are better than us? Do you want a piece of me?
Orion-Bus: Yeah, I do, so I can slap you across the face with it. Oh, and I will get that piece too.
All the buses in the area: Oooooooooooooooooohhhhh...
The Bus: Alright then!
Orion-Bus: It's time to let the power of Orion mystify you.
The buses went into battle. Even Retus-Bus, 9076, and PA 1746 joined the fight. This would be the biggest fight between two types of buses in the history of transit! Who would win? Well, I'm betting on the power of Orion. However, find out on the next episode of "Power of Orion."
Author's note: Any references to "ugly RTS buses" that are negative (and in some cases positive) are not true statements and should not be held to the author(s) of this series, as well as some statements about Orion buses (particularly in the first episode).
Pretty good writing and story line RTS 2150. I can't seem to forget the part about BIG AL being dead. Now, check out my eulogy to 1746. I prepared it just for you.
Nimco#1746 BIG AL
This morning I was assigned bus #8478 a 1993 RTS 80206 for the first half of my run. As I trudged out to the yard to get the beast I was surprised to see an exhaust pipe protruding from the rear roof. Wait a minute I thought. This is a '93 RTS not a '96 or '99 what gives? My answer came as the engine roared to life. A DD-50 not a 6V92TA! Okay, this must be one of the re-powered buses I've heard about. 8478 is the only one of it's type in 126th Street Depot. It's a strange bus at least from a driving standpoint in that it exhibits characteristics from different series of buses. It rides, handles and rattles like the '93 RTS 80206 that it was built as. It has an electric starter and fire suppression system mounted on the dash (albeit in a rather tacky manner) like the '97 & '99 RTS 80206. Engine vibration at idle is a cross between the '96 and '99 RTS 80206. Also it doesn't have that clack clack clack sound of the typical DD-50. Rather it's idle is more subdued and features a slight whining sound. The strangest characteristic of all however is that while accelerating at full throttle it sounds just like a 1999 Orion 05.501! Overall it performed rather well and featured brisk acceleration. Is 8478 the first re-powered RTS to go into service? Does any other depot have them?
Everything was fine until you mentioned Orion. Why would they put an Orion DD50 into an RTS?! I hope that beast isn't in service when I get there. Did it sound remotely like it's old self? You know, the RTS scream and such?
I don't believe there is such a thing as an Orion DD-50 or an RTS DD-50. Sorry to have to disappoint you but 8478 sounds nothing like it did in it's former life. You'll have to get used to this though since NYCTA is planning on re-powering all of it's 1993 RTS-80206's (nos 8401-8564) While you may not find it aesthetically pleasing keep in mind that these new engines will go a long way in helping keep our enviroment healthy.
>>>I don't believe there is such a thing as an Orion DD-50 or an RTS DD-50.<<<
An RTS DD50 sounds like a truck and an RTS put together. Wait, it sounds like an 8600 RTS. Those have the DD50. An Orion DD50 sounds just...ugh. But, maybe I'm not giving 8478 a chance.
I wish there was a way that culd reproduce the old sound in the new engines, but oh well, if it keeps me living longer, why not.
I haven't ridden an RTS DD50 probably, unless they had them on the 1994 TMC RTSs in NYC, but based on the description by RTS_2150, the engine seems to sound awful. I'm not bashing against the RTS or whatever. I happen to like the sound of the old RTS engine, it was "unique"
It's not too bad really. Go to transitworld.com and download the sound of RTS 86xx (I forget the exact number). It sounds pretty nice.
The older DD series 50 engines seem to be louder and less refined than the newer series 50 engines - At least in Orions!. I noticed this about 2 years ago when WMATA started receiving their 1998 Orions.
Wayne
They are. The MBTA's fleet of NovaBus RTSs all have Series 50-III engines, and from the outside they sound almost a roaring lion. From the inside they don't sound as bad, more like a refined 8V71 that the T used to put in their older 7100 series Flxible buses.
If I'm not mistaken, the prototype New Flyer CNG buses received Series 50-IV engines, which sound a little smoother than the RTSs and it doesn't roar as much.
I agree; our 1994 Gillig Phantoms here (in Roanoke, VA) have early Series 50s in them and they sound like clattering lawnmowers taking off from the outside. However, I rode a 1997 Gillig in Grand Rapids (MI) this summer and it sounded a lot smoother and quieter, especially from the inside. Ditto for a 1999 Orion 30' that we borrowed from WMATA for testing; nice smooth running engines nowadays. However, our fair city has decided to switch to Cummins for its next buses due to problems with the high-torque Series 50 and the Allison 5-speeds; they claim that DD no longer makes a quality engine. Any comments either way?
No offense, but your fair city wouldn't know a good engine if it slapped it in the face and ran off with the town virgins. The only good engine Cummins makes is the M11 so I hope you're buying RTS buses. If you're buying Orions, you can ask John about the Cummins engines found inside of those. Look to NJ Transit if you wanna see what happens to good buses with poor engines and rushed delivery.
You know, I STILL don't know what you guys are talking about NJ Transit's new RTS's. And I ride them ALL THE TIME! I ride them almost every day and have been riding them since September 1999 and I have had no bad experiences with them. So could somebody please clarify this mystery plague?
Well according to some posters, they are duds. My only gripe is that they don't sound ANYTHING like an RTS, but some wierd type of truck with tht Cummins motor.
What problems were they. I mean, from what I've hear here, cummins engines are the worst engines you can get.
8419 out of Flatbush Depot was the first repowered RTS to hit the streets. Gleason Depot has three--8518, 8526 and 8555.
Mark
Yes, saw her Thursday at Boro Hall on the B41.
B41#8419Mike
Make that four out of Gleason...8564 has just been done.
There are others: 8419 (Flatbush) and 8564 (JG). They will all eventually be repowered with the DD50.
Doesn't have that clack-clack sound of a typical DD50? More like a whine? Sounds more like a DD60 than a DD50. Our (SEPTA's) articulated Neoplans' engines have that same sound that you were describing, and they have DD60's in the back.
[Sounds more like a DD60 than a DD50. Our (SEPTA's) articulated Neoplans' engines have that same sound that you were describing, and they have DD60's in the back.]
Actually, the new SEPTA artics are powered by a DD50. Also, the pitch of the engine seems a little higher on the Neo artics than they do on the 8600-series RTS in NY. But, then again, that's probably just me.
Everything was jammed up this afternoon in Mineola and Garden City.
Took 30 minutes just to get from Mineola terminal to Roosevelt Field on the N22. Traffic around the mall was terrible. When I got there it didn't seem that crowded inside though.
Also yesterday it took 30 minutes to get from Great Neck to Roslyn, Northern Blvd was backed up. Is the holiday traffic this bad everywhere? I have a feeling the south shore was better.
Central and NW Nassau really need subways.
Nassau is so urbanized but everybody drives, it equals hell.
It's also called icy roads. I witnessed a guy spin around twice in the left lane of teh Meadowbrook by Old Country Rd tonight and came to a stop facing the wrong way. Being the professional bus rider u are, if you had to get someplace, wouldn't u compensate for delays which are always present by taking an earlier bus?
But i guess with LIB's 30, 45 and 60 minute headways and shoddy service it's kinda tough.
Thats the reason everybody drives.
Noticed today that Green Line MCI 706, which is parked outside Atlantic Diesel on LI, has some fire damage around the front door area. 709 and 5511 is parked next to 706 but no physical damage noticable to those two. Command Orion 4965 is also there.
Here's wishing all Bus Talk contributors and their families the happiest of holidays.
Dearly beloved,
We have gathered here today to pay our final respects to a dear friend, bus #1746...
1746 was an 18 year old bus which served most of her career in Stengel and Jamaica depots - making everybody who rode her miserable. She will not be forgotten.
Like no other bus, 1746 truly stood out from the crowd.
Whenever it rained, she dumped water on her passengers without ever complaining. She even went the extra distance and poured water right into the laps of the operators, and never made a gripe about it.
She would rattle and bang everybodys brains out with her hard suspension, and never thought of asking for anything extra in return.
Perhaps the best part of her was her climate control. Always smelling like diesel fumes, it will never be forgotten.
And the way her seats would fall apart while the passengers were sitting in them was truly a work of art.
But part of her that will be missed the most is her acceleration. No other bus had a higher acceleration time than her.
0-60 in 5 minutes was truly a feat that can not be matched.
Whenever she made her customers pay $3.00 for the fare, she always made sure her customers felt like...they were being "taken for a ride".
1746 had 1 admirer who no doubt will keep her good name alive.
His name is RTS 2150, and we will send him a memoir of this buses legacy.
In closing, I would like to read off a little poem dedicated to this very deserving bus to stay in her name for the rest of eternity.
Transit is good, Transit is great. They pulled 1746 from service - because she kept making everybody late!
Nimco she lies, on her side - next to the big shredder in the sky!
Nimco, a place of dirt and grit. Not to worry, 1746 always looked like shit!
And if you ever ride a bus that smells like funk, please remember - 1746 was a piece of junk!!!
Farewell 1746
RUST IN PEACE !
Yours truly, The Reverend BIG AL
BIG AL Sharpton you ain't(thank god)!
LOL
LOL & LMAO.
B46M Limited
Saw What Women Want tonight.Filmed in Chicago: their is one scene in the film were there are several of their RTS-08(aka as RTS-06 WFD)with the rear window.It is so strange seeing a rear window on any bus nowadays including The TA's Orion VI's.those any body know if the Orion VII is going to have the back of a V or VI(no window or a rear window)
i told my wife i wont see this film but youve now convinced me to go.
You saw it to???? The bus was beautiful.
They did a bad job editing the movie, though, as I also saw an LA bus roll by in one of the scenes supposedly in Chicago. Other than that, I wanted to shoot myself after seeing the movie. I still didn't know what women want!!! I just decided to ask my girlfriend. Luckily she didn't say a large diamond ring!!!
What scene was that?I only caught the back of that CTA RTS-08(or is a RTS-06WFD)
I honestly can't remember exactly which one, but I believe it was when Mel Gibson went to the coffee shop to ask Marisa Tomei out. I saw a yellow striped LA bus fly by. At that point of the movie, I was looking for buses only!!!
Maybe it was a suburban Chicago Pace bus.
Women want men that treat them badly and play hard to get while all of us nice guys who are sweet to them go dateless. Anyways, getting back to the important stuff...WOW...an RTS with a rear window? OK....apart from the scoping out the gorgeous Helen Hunt, I now have another reason to see the movie! LOL
>>>Women want men that treat them badly and play hard to get while all of us nice guys who are sweet to them go dateless.<<<
That's what my cousin's said too.
>>>Anyways, getting back to the important stuff...WOW...an RTS with a rear window?<<<
My interest in buses must be rubbing off on them because they noticed it too.
That's too funny! Now let's see if we can find a Flxible Metro with a rear window. And more women who look like Helen Hunt....
I would love to be able to have the power to read women's minds!!
When I was in Chicago in March, I was on a couple of RTS's with back windows. The one that I was on, you couldn't tell as much because it had an ad covering the whole back. If you ever get the video game "Midtown Madness", Chicago Edition, for your computer, you can drive an RTS through the streets of Chicago and it uses an RTS with a back window. RTS 2150 would love this game!!!
I never knew there were RTSs that could have overhead airconditioning units, since they have rear windows. Does that also mean that there is more room for passenger seating behind the rear door?
Philadelphia added rooftop air conditioning units to their slant-back 03-series RTS's.
It doesnt make any difference in the amount of passenger room, as the rear seat sits as far back on top of the engine as it possibly can.
Oh, I knew about those, but they were added because of faulty air conditioning. I never knew that any modern RTSs, like in this decade, had rear windows. I thought it was just a standard design that couldn't be altered that way.
What you see on CTA's RTS's is not common at all, let alone is at an option available to any TA.
First, at the moment, these buses (4400-4875, 4900-4914) are not air conditioned at all. The rear window is a not a result of moving the a/c to the top of the bus; it's a result of the complete lack of air conditioning. I would venture to say that upwards of 95% of RTS's ever delivered were equipped with air conditioning and
Over the last ten years, CTA has developed somewhat of a reputation for procuring buses which sport very abnormal features. I, for one, believe that the entire RTS-WFD craze was borne of CTA's desire to have wide front doors on an RTS. Their RTS's also have very strange rear doors, window configurations which I have yet to spot on another RTS, and of course, the famous rear windows.
Also, CTA operates no fewer than 800 Flxible Metros (5300-5769 from 1991, 6000-6329 from 1995) which in my books are barely Metros at all. These are the only Metros I know of anywhere without the signature folding front doors. Also, the first batch is designated as Metro B's, but save for the slightly slanted back, these more closely resemble Metro D's. The taillight arrangement is also weird on these buses.
This trend of the early 1990's is strange, as CTA's previous buses had standard features, such as their venerable New Look fleets of the mid 1970's and the Flyers and M*A*N's.
Are their new Nova LFS's in service yet? I look forward to going back to Chicago to do some more thorough research. After all, CTA was the transit system that got me interested in mass transit.
Neil
Also, I forgot to mention that CTA has plans to add roof-mounted air condition to the RTS's in the near future. I'm told that they were delivered with components which will make this a fairly easy process.
Chicago sure had an interesting array of buses. Thanks to my company, I had a great hotel room facing Lake Michigan at the Chicago Hilton in March, so I got to watch many buses go up and down Michigan Ave. I decided to venture up to the Water Tower and walk around but missed the hotel shuttle. so I took the 3 back to my hotel. That was where I got to ride the back windowed RTS. The only problem I had was the driver floored it as I was putting my money in the farebox, so I didnt really have my balance and nearly did a header into the aisle. Of the many NYC buses I've ridden, that has never happened. I also got to ride a Flx Metro on the 1 from Sears Tower to the hotel. The MAN 40-footers they were running looked awful. I hope they are ready for the scrapper because the destination signs on most were busted and the buses looked to be held together by wires and tape. But, overally, it was cool seeing the "El" and the buses there.
The CTA has actually just begun retrofitting its 10-year-old RTS-08s with air conditioning. Each unit is being installed over the engine. Once this project is finished, the unique rear windows will be just a memory. They're being replaced with plain old black louvered lids (without the rear signboxes).
The CTA's first Nova LFs hit the streets last week. Within the next two years there'll be 476 of them in service. I just caught a brief glimpse of one; it looked as if it might have actually been an "off-the-rack" product, unlike the "customized" TMC-RTSs and Flxible Metros delivered during the '90s (as Neil indicated).
Also being introduced to the CTA's rickety fleet is a group of 100 18-year-old MAN Artics from Seattle. They're replacing about 70 identical buses of the same vintage. Supposedly, the Pacific Coast transplants are in much better condition than their Chicago cousins owing to Seattle's mild climate. However, unlike the hometown Artics, the ones from the west are not air-conditioned. And, because they were designed for cool Seattle summers, the only windows that open are the narrow hopper units along the top of each sash. It's gonna be a long, hot, sticky summer (hey! fake leather seats, too!) in those rolling steambaths.
Once again, a stroke of visionary genius, courtesy of our CTA's Infallible Brain Trust!
(Please convey your deepest sympathies to the regular patrons of Route #s 6, 14, & 147, folks.)
-Dan Terkell
The original CTA artics (7100-7223, model SG 220) and the "New" old Seattle artics are similar in that they were all manufactured by M*A*N and sport the same exterior characteristics, but a major difference is that the CTA buses were only 55 feet long whereas the Seattle buses are 60 feet (model SG 310). However, CTA's very first artics was a batch of 20 60 footers delivered in 1979 (7000-7019); why they cut down to 55 feet on the big order I'll never know.
Do the Seattle buses have three sets of doors? What's going on with the destination signs? Also, if CTA is undertaking such a massive a/c retrofitting with the RTS's, why not include the M*A*N's?
I would love to see a picture of an a/c equipped CTA RTS. They look just like a regular RTS now? I can't wait! These must be good buses if they are investing this much time and money in them at 10 years old.
Where are the new LFS's used? The first batch is numbered 6400-6549, I believe.
Neil
The "new" old Seattle artics (7300-7399) have two sets of doors just like their Chicago relatives. However, the transplants are lift-equipped and also feature electronic route signs, although they're not very easy to read.
New artics will be ordered soon, with delivery scheduled in 2004. (Should it really take three years to build a bus --- even an artic? I wonder.) The Seattle MANs will then be retired, so I doubt that the CTA will install a/c in them. But, if they care about the comfort of their customers, they'll have to replace the windows with units that open.
The RTSs, (4400-4875 & 4900-4914)on the other hand, will probably operate until at least 2008. (I believe they're also receiving new engines along with the a/c.) And yep, they now look just like any other RTS, at least from the rear. In the coming months, I'll try to capture some "before and after" RTS shots.
The first of the Nova LFs (6400-6558) have been assigned to one of the South Side barns, 77th Street, which feeds several routes that run downtown. The one that I spotted, 6407, was running on Route #3 King Drive.
-Dan Terkell
[New artics will be ordered soon, with delivery scheduled in 2004. (Should it really take three years to build a bus --- even an artic? I wonder.)]
It probably doesn't take three years to build a bus, per se, but it probably takes that long from the time the order is sent out for bids until the production model is on the transit systems property. Given that there are only three North American companies that build artics for service in the US - NABI, Neoplan, and New Flyer - three years might be a generous time frame. Just hope that this "brain trust" at CTA doesn't go with NABI...
I have that game! I wish they used a 6v92TA though!
How true that is!!! Yeah women say they want sensitive guys but when a big tall hunk shows up you know who they're walking out with.
But it's mainly women in the West that think that way. Asian women seem to want sensitive and smart guys, not the brutes Western women look at.
Just an observation. Also had 287 today, the last Cummins Orion that was delivered to LI Bus, being the newst Cummins it runs the worst. Trembles while it accelerates, and had a really shaky idle.
Had my pushcart on the bus since I had 2 to laundry, and I sure wish I had an RTS's since I had to hold onto that push cart since Orions sway, they are so damn "boaty".
[They did a bad job editing the movie, though, as I also saw an LA bus roll by in one of the scenes supposedly in Chicago.]
Reminds me of a scene from the movie "Cruel Intentions" which was supposedly filmed at Penn Station in NYC, but actually filmed in an LA Metrorail station. (Okay, that's not bus related, but it's on topic somewhat...)
I haven"t got much to contribute on busses but found a book on Greyhound yesterday, lo and behold the beloved city GMC:s: except, I guess the M stands for Manual transmission where the usual H was hydraulic. TDM 4506, TDM 4507, and the ones I remember seeing TDH 5303 which were used at the World's Fair.(64-65 NYC). Actually most were a local service not actual city transit. Thought you might find it interesting from the days of dinosaurs.
If you want to see more Greyhound TDM/TDHs, buy a book called "General Motors New Look Buses." It's an excellent book, and they have a small section of Greyhound Suburbans that looked like regular transit fishbowls but had regular Greyhound seats.
You can probably get it from Amazon.com.
You can get it from www.modelbuses.com also.
Typo on the URL coding. Sorry about that. Here it is again.
www.modelbuses.com
speaking of greyhound and transit buses, here is a link to a picture of some greyhound c-49 macks that ran out west and i think also in the east...
greyhound c-49 mack
and speaking of greyhound, try this link to the "greyhoundthroughexpress" club at yahoo, complete with a photo section with many of bob redden's photos of intercity buses, as well as a message board... there are currently 168 members, consisting of retired and current drivers and supervisors, and a wide variety of bus nuts as well as just plain nuts like myself...
greyhound club
Sorry about this. Blame it on to much holiday cheer. modelbuses.com is changing it's name shortly and will have a new URL. The previous URL I posted takes you to the old site which is going away shortly.
The new url for them is www.transauthority.com. This is the new site that has the new order form up that has the GM New Look book on it as well as books on Mack, Greyhound and Trailways.
no need to apologize... it's always good to see greyhound's name on this message board
There is also a 1966 Fishbowl Suburban (formerly of Toledo) preserved by the Ohio Museum of Transportation (omot.org); I had never seen a suburban New Look before but looked it over inside and out this summer at OMOT and they are nice. I'd have loved to travel in one back then and still would like to now.
If I recall those WF Greyhound New Look 5303's became the 950 series at CTC.The only difference was the bifold rear exit doors.
I used to ride those on the Q23. Once in a while we'd get one as a schoolbus. One time a driver played with the rear door, opening and closing it quickly.
I know these buses finished up their career on the Q18 .Used to see them alot at 69th and Grand by the pizza place across from the Bingo Hall
The 950 series at Triboro were NOT ex-Greyhound buses!!
They were delivered BRAND NEW to Triboro -- they were TDH5303-5999 through TDH5303-6013, delivered as 951-965 in September, 1967.
The transit buses that Greyhound had at the World's Fair all had push-out rear doors, not the bi-fold type.
Just wanted to wish everybody a very Happy Holiday season and a healthy 2001! Also let the 1700s live past 2001-which I know will NOT Happen :(
Peace and goodwill to all. Drive safe. Remember those friends and loved ones we lost. May the year ahead bring new and wonderful experiences to all.
Murf.........
Does anybody have this bus/subway web site because it gives you a 404 error when trying to load?
Everyone have a safe and blessed Christmas Holiday!
From The TransiTALK Family
Regards,
Trevor Logan, Jr.
www.transitalk.com / www.flxible.org
hey trevor... happy holidays to you....
is that a new logo on the bus?... it looked a little like the new greyhound logo... i put up a link to your picture at the greyhound website...
Yes that is the new NJ Transit bus scheme and will be used on the entire new MCI order.
thanks for info trevor... does it look a little like the greyhound logo to you?
Sure as hell does!!!
Trevor
Just call me someone who hates change but I personally didn't see anything wrong with the old NJT scheme. Seems like in most cases every transit system that decides to come up with a new look for the buses always ends up with more and more white and less color.
To me it just doesn't have any imagination having an all white bus with a tiny bit of color accents. I prefer the days when each company had a clear cut appearance even if the paint job was bland. The bus still had some character and was more interesting to look at if it had colors other than just white.
Just my opinion.
RDChilds
As many of you are already aware, NJ Transit has a different logo, but with the same colors, on the 30-foot RTS's. I suspect the old logo just wouldn't fit and/or look very good on that short a bus. It will be interesting to see if NJ Transit sticks to the old logo as it repaints its 40-foot transit or suburban buses.
That's an intersting point. On the LTS buses, I made a change of paint scheme to the 30ft buses, which is the same as the mini bus scheme (they used to be different) but the 40ft buses still have the old sheme, since the new scheme wouldn't exactly work. With the 30ft buses, the new scheme seems to fit better than the old scheme. Also, are the RTSs the first 30ft buses NJT ever had? Recently, all of these companies that never used to have 30ft or small buses (WMATA, SEPTA) are now getting or already have 30ft buses. Also, a lot of TAs are changing their paint schemes (SEPTA, WMATA, Broward County Transit, PalmTran?, Miami-Dade). I guess it's time to NY to get a new paint scheme to keep up with the times.
[are the RTSs the first 30ft buses NJT ever had?]
If I remember correctly, the huge order in the mid-1970's for new-look Flxibles (both suburban and transit) included some 35 and 30 footers. I don't know whether NJ Transit or some of the contract operators used them - the only recollection I have is that there were a few 30 footers at Middlesex Metro.
Actually, SEPTA did own 30' Flxible Fishbowl-Rip-Offs during the mid-1970's, after that, SEPTA never did bother to order neither 30' RTS buses nor Neoplans (Neoplan did offer the AN430, but I doubt that any TA ordered any). I was surprised to see NJ Transit ordered RTS buses, but 30' at that? Anyhoo, I dig the new paint scheme as well.
>>>(Neoplan did offer the AN430, but I doubt that any TA ordered any).<<<
Ahem, Houston ordered 30 of these. They were 3000-3029. They sounded like the old Grummans, but were horrible and rusted alot. They did make it to the age of 13 though, well, about 23 of them. Seven were scrapped in early 1998.
I forgot about Houston. Thanks for the info.
[Actually, SEPTA did own 30' Flxible Fishbowl-Rip-Offs during the mid-1970's, after that, SEPTA never did bother to order neither 30' RTS buses nor Neoplans (Neoplan did offer the AN430, but I doubt that any TA ordered any).]
MSBA had a few 30-ft Neoplans, from what I understand.
SEPTA purchased 5 Flxible 35096-6-1 buses in 1976 #1157-1161, in addition to the 7 GM TDH3301A buses in 1970 (#1150-1156). These were the last 30-ft buses purchased by SEPTA prior to the recent order from ElDorado.
Most of the other non-40 ft orders were 35 ft., including 48 Flxible 45096-8-1 coaches built in 1975 (#360-407, probably allocated to Red Arrow) and 40 Flxible 45096-6-1 coaches built in 1974-75 (#1241-1270, probably allocated to City).
SEPTA also acquired 8 TDH3501 buses from the former Schuylkill Valley Lines (forerunner to today's SEPTA Frontier District) in 1976. Originally numbered as 780-788 (780-783 are ex-Burlington (Vt.) Rapid Transit built in 1964; 784-788 were built for SVL in 1967), they were renumbered 4450-4457. Four years later, the 35-ft RTS-3 buses (4458-4470) arrived at Frontier, but were out of service by 1992.
The Neoplan BP (35-ft) buses arrived in 1984. At least three were allocated to Allegheny for use on the 35 line, then sent to Midvale a few years ago when the 35 was also sent to Midvale; two were sent to Southern (used on the old 90 line, since discontinued) and three went Red Arrow; the rest were initially sent to Frontier. Most of the remaining BPs (save for the three at Midvale) are now at Red Arrow, and should be out of service within the next few months, depending on when the ElDorados arrive (which will be numbered 4501-4580).
Yes,
I agree with you. It has to be a cost cutting move. Those darn penny counters.
Wayne
I agree with you on that. In fact, the only transit company that probably has more color in their new scheme is Miami-Dade Transit. However, on the 30ft RTS buses for NJT, I like the new scheme better. After all, like you said, the bus was just white with a few color accents. However, on the MCIs, there is still the same amount of color, if not less.
Saw this bus on Eastern Parkway and Bedford. No rear sign. I guess TA will not even bother about putting one in on this bus.
B49#4627Mike
There are a few buses running around with no destination sign in the rear. A lot of the 4100s do not have rear destination signs. Here are a few that I know of off hand: 3954, 3979, 4096, 4152, 4163. 4356 HAD no rear sign but now she's scrapped.
Here's a pic I took of 3954:
There are a few DOT Buses that do not have a rear destination sign. I know for sure that QS 361 and 387 do not have the rear sign:
Let me see if I can think of a few others that have no rear sign.
Q46#3954Gary
Q65#387Gary
Add 4668 to the list.
B57#4668Mike
Here's to all the bus talkers and sub talkers. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
BIG AL & Family
A big AMEN to that Rev. Al from Hart Bus and family.
Last night HBO re-ran 2 episodes of the Sopranos from the first season. In one of the episodes a young Tony gets up late and his mother tells him to hurry or he'll miss the bus to school. The bus that he chases and misses is clearly Red & Tan Lines unit #90 It's a GMC New Look with an A/C unit on back. Couldn't tell if its a transit or a suburban model. Who owns this bus today ? A movie production supply co ?
I first thought maybe Double A Transport but checking their website they own R&T unit #74, a similar new look.
It most likely was a suburban ,namely that what Red & Tan ran mostly.I used to get those and the New Look Flexibles that ended up at Queens surface eventually on the 9A which went by the Alpine Boy Scout camp.
According to a knowledgeable friend of mine, R&T 90 is a l960 GMC SDM 5301 serial l66. It was operated by Hudson Bus Transportation Co. and was renumbered to 96 (date unknown). It was sold to Chet Furmanek (an area bus collector) who renumbered the bus back to its original number 90. Chet must have sold it. The last time my friend saw the bus it was owned by someone in NY, as it has Historic NY plates on the bus.
And don't forget blessed 'Id al-Fitr (end of Ramadhan) greetings to
all; and may you all enjoy good health throughout the coming year.
I'd just like to add my holiday greetings to all! I hope everyone has a happy and prosperous new year (including the remaining '82 RTS Suburbans).
SEASONS GREETINGS!!!!!
J. Liggins
I also wish everyone a happy holidays and happy New Year (this includes all remaining two stroke RTS's and all Flxibles) :-)
It was a sunny and very cold day today. I had to spend it by myself. i took the N21 bus at 11:17am to Flushing. There were about 5 other people on when I got on, but by Great Neck the bus was 70% full. Great Neck LIRR looked busy, while the rest of Nassau was just plain deserted.
Got to Flushing at 12:15pm, a pretty fast trip, because there were less people and little traffic.
Flushing was busy, and for the first time in awhile I had a good time there.
That could be because it was Christmas, and mostly chinese people were
walking around, no troublemakers. Fruit markets were jammed, book stores had some customers, and so was HK Plaza as well as the Flushing Center Mall. Lots of nice girls to look at. :-) Also WJ Bookstore opened up a branch in the mall.
It was bitter cold though, with a frigid wind. I did see some buses idling, probably since it was so cold. I've witnessed the CS Orions with series 50 stalling in the cold weather, but it was way too cold to watch buses today. The Orions looked horrible, all dirty and beaten up. However the RTS's on the Q17 seemed to look a lot better, I guess they are more "winterized".
I ate at Burger King, I usually don't but I knew they were open. They were busy, but I don't know why they are so popular. They are so expensive and Wendy's has better food. Noticed along the way Burger King and McDonald's were open, but Wendy's in Bayside was closed. Problem is I like Wendy's but they still think like a small fast food chain!
The 7 subway station definately wasn't busy at all. I didn't ride it, just took a walk through there. Way too cold to travel around NYC.
Well I got a pushcart for $20 in one of the stores since I need one now that I'm on my own.
Waited for the 3:32pm bus back to Glen Cove. Unfortunately the driver left us standing out in the cold until 3:30pm, being it was frigid and it was Christmas she could've picked up sooner.
While there were quite a few people on the bus, it emptied out completely after Great Neck. I was the only one on the bus (a first for the N21) from Great Neck to Roslyn, we picked up 3 at Roslyn.
Had Cummins Orions both ways (273 and 179) but they were running good. Didn't see many new Orions out today at LIB, perhaps the Series 50 can't handle the cold. (I've heard CNG buses have problems starting in cold weather, but the same could be said for diesels).
Got back at 4:20pm, that was only just over 45 minutes from leaving Flushing.
All in all not a bad day, but I'm glad I can put this lonely Christmas behind me.
Lonely Christmas!? Well, let me extend my warmest be-lated holiday wishes to you and wish you a VERY prosperous and joy filled 2001! BTW, ride some RTS buses this week! They perk me right up! :)
Hey guy, sorry to hear that you had a lonely day. Hey, look on the bright side; at least you had bus service on Christmas...we don't even have that here. LOL I hope you have a happier Christmas next year.
Unfortunately, the media makes it that in order to have a good Christmas, you have to have a million people around you in order to be happy. Well, what you did yesterday sounded really cool to me!! We here at BusTalk are always here for you and everyone else that needs some company!!!
I was definately grateful for the bus service. A 30 minute walk to the Sea Cliff station in the frigid wind would've been very difficult!
Today I had to take the N27 to go to the laundry. And the swaying of Orions really annoyed me since I had to hold onto that pushcart so it wouldn't fly across the bus everytime we made a turn.
RTS's don't tilt like Orions do, yet another reason I wish LI Bus used RTS's.
REGIONAL TRANSIT SERVICE of Riverside California has just acquired TDH 4510 serial 501. There was 501 of them made. These buses were only made for New York and this was the demonstrator. I am looking for any info on these buses as it is going into the shop for repaint this weekend. I would like to know what they looked like when they arrived in the NY area and if anyone has any ideas as to a better paint scheme than the original. I should have some pics scanned by the end of the week of this unique bus.
As I recall, they were green and silver when new. In the early 1960's, those that were still around got that darkg reen bottom/light jade green top.
I think I have some photos of them in an old book around the house.....
Sorry to be a party pooper but according to the Bus Production lists maintained at the Ohio Museum of Transportation (www.omot.org), maintained by fellow Bus-Talk Poster RDChilds as webmaster but Unit 501 was delivered as a demo to the PACIFIC ELECTRIC RAILROAD CO. in California in June of 1950. All the other 500 were delivered to NYC.
If the NYC buses had silver and green livery, perhaps you can get a picture of Corgi #54004 (from a toy or hobby seller on the net) its a NYC Omnibus 4507 which is close for your needed paint scheme
You are very correct. This bus was passed back and forth thru the Los Angeles area bus companys thru the years always ending up back at RTD. I am working on the exact history of the bus right now and will post what I find out. I have also heard it arrived out here in "fruit salad"
There is a complete photo history of the bus in one of the issues of the old Bus World magazine, I have it around here somewhere. I will copy the article and photos as soon as I find it, and forward the copies to you.
Thanks Steve. Andy and Pam may be here this weekend to check out both the 6500 and 6599 (TDH 5103) If so, we can all do lunch
I was very young when 4000-4499 were first delivered, so the accuracy of this may be in doubt. I believe the 500 buses came in two different paint schemes. Most of them were green and silver, but with a very small green stripe (about 1 inch wide) above the standee windows. The stripe curved downward to meet the bottom green paint at the very rear/side of the bus. Some of the buses had the same green and silver, but instead of a green stripe, the entire roof of the bus was painted the same green color. I remember referring to these as green tops. I think the Bingham Macks also originally came in this green top scheme. Some years later, the TA used the green and silver scheme without the stripe or green top, so many of the 4510's were repainted this way. In the mid-1950's (around the time the 6000 series Macks were delivered), the TA substituted white for the silver in the scheme. The 7000 series GM old-looks were also delivered in green and white. The 9000 series GM old-looks were delivered in the then new dark green, light green scheme, but the numbers were still silver. About a year later, the TA darkened the light green a little in its repainting jobs, and substituted numbers in the same light green color instead of in silver.
The Jackie Gleason bus (now numbered 2969, but originally 4567 or something like that) is, if I remember correctly, in the original green and silver scheme with the green stripe I refer to above. There should be a picture of it on this site with the pictures for the 1999 and/or 1998 Bus Festival.
The "Gleason" bus' original(and actual) number is 4789, and yes, it was delivered in the original silver and green colors. Its present appearance is close to the original.
An s55 bus struck a pole on Annadale Rd this morning, knocking out power to 500 people. More details when available, and if they park the damaged vehicle in the usual spot, I'll try for a pic.
-Hank
also of interest to hank and other islanders there was an accident in the arthur kill turnaround this am, bus 2124 wound up with its door knocked off and the rubber molding was hanging off the bus next to it. a busy day at clinic 5.
Icy roads?
Ice may have played a part in the Annadale crash, but I'm willing to put money on driver error combined with tight quarters in an area not designed for bus storage for the accident at AK.
-Hank
indeed ice may have played a part in causing the annadale crash involving bus 6292 which suffered a smashed windshield and other minor damage. bus 2125 my error is already in our body shop.
Ice played a part in the bus crash. Oh Lord! I know who's going to get blamed for that one.
BIG AL
he knocked out power to 500 homes. driver awaiting results of blood alcohol. his job now is to open and close the garage doors so mechanics dont get a draft.
rooki operator??
I just recieved that Arnold Joseph passed away yesterday (12/25) around noon.
For those who are not familiar, Arnold was man who attended ERA meetings and sold some books, calendars and photo's. He had an office at 1140 Broadway where he had loads of paper railroadiana, like maps, books, timetables etc for sale. If you needed something rare, you would check him to see if he had it. I often directed some of my subway calendar customers who quizzed me on rare items to write or call Arnold.
Details of the cause of death and funeral is not known at this time. Some one might come forward to report any news. Arnold was a nice guy who will be missed.
Regards,
Bill "Newkirk"
Newkirk Images
Our condolences to his family and friends. He was a very nice man.
My most sincere condolences to the Joseph family. All transportation enthusiasts in the New York metropolitan area have lost a good friend. At least a half dozen books in my transportation library were puchased from Arnold. You could always count on him to have the book that no one else did. May he rest in peace.
Arnold, I have known you since I was 13. You were one of my early railfan mentor. You will be missed.
The bus routes around Prospect Park in Brooklyn have more to do with history than good sense. Many buses have to struggle down narrow streets rather than wide ones, in part because of they way the streets are managed.
I'd like to 8th Avenue and Prospect Park West made two way streets, so the buses can use Prospect Park West in both directions rather than going down 15th Street. I'd extend the B68 up to round Grand Army Plaza, so Coney Island Avenue riders can get to the library without a transfer and get to the B41.
I'd move the vehicular entrance to the Park from one-lane 3rd Street to four-lane 9th Street. Then I'd have the B75 bus run down 9th Street, right through the park (the bus would be allowed on the outer lane even when the park was closed) and out on four lane Empire Boulevard, taking the place of a bus on that side of the park.
This combination of buses (B41 on one side of the park, B68 and B69 on the other, and B75 going straight across) would provide better access to park facilities like the bandshell and skating rink, the library, the Botanic Garden and Zoo, and Downtown Flatbush for everyone on both sides of the park, and put the buses on wide, two-way streets.
[I'd like to (see?) 8th Avenue and Prospect Park West made two-way streets....]
Isn't 8th Avenue (between 15th and Flabush) a tad narrow? Wouldn't one double-parked car on either side effecively shut down the street in both directions?
([I'd like to (see?) 8th Avenue and Prospect Park West made two-way streets....]
Isn't 8th Avenue (between 15th and Flabush) a tad narrow? Wouldn't one double-parked car on either side effecively shut
down the street in both directions?)
Because cars can get by, everyone double parks, and you effectively only have a one-lane street northbound anyway. If the minute one stopped a car behind started honking -- because it couldn't get by -- double parking would end.
No it wouldn't. Look at Avenue J.
(No it wouldn't. Look at Avenue J. )
Avenue J is a commercial street. I think double parking would be less of a problem on 8th Avenue. For example, 6th Avenue is a two-way street that is about the same width as 8th Avenue, and it doesn't get blocked. You'd get double parking by the park, but Prospect Park West is wide enough to handle it.
A two-way Prospect Park West would be a boone to bus service.
I wish LI Bus ran the N20/21 straight down Northern, left on Union, then right on Roosevelt and empty out across from Stern's and the Roosevelt Diner.
N20/21 would depart from the same location. That left turn onto Sanford (following the Q12) is slow since you have to stop at every light and the streets are narrow, plus the bottleneck at Kissena and Main.
So why doesn't LIB run straight down Northern and into Flushing? We don't pick up that many people along Sanford avenue, and they could walk a few blocks away to Northern.
It would definately save time and avoid delays.
[So why doesn't LIB run straight down Northern and into Flushing? We don't pick up that many people along Sanford avenue, and they could walk a few blocks away to Northern.
It would definately save time and avoid delays. ]
Why do city buses stop every few blocks? Get;s me but that what they do, IMHO the only service shold be limited service.
Arti
I think it's because if they turned on-let's say Union St-they would have to pick up in the same location as the Q13, Q16 and Q28. If LIB turned on Main St, then I don't think they're permitted to make a left turn onto Roosevelt Ave.-then they can't turn left onto Union St. Sanford Ave is better for LIB to run on than on Northern Blvd. Also if they turned onto Union St-if they make a right on Roosevelt-then to go back to pick up to go to LI, then they'll have to go down and around like the Q12, Q15 and Q26 do and that can be time consuming-and if LIB runs the way they do-that can be lethal. John would know a lot more about that than me.
N20#138Gary
Can you imagine the outcry if the idea of running buses through Prospect Park was ever breached?! This is Park Slope!! People don't even want vehicular traffic in the park during rush hour.
(Can you imagine the outcry if the idea of running buses through Prospect Park was ever breached?! This is Park Slope!! People don't even want vehicular traffic in the park during rush hour.)
Improving transit access to the park, and the institutions around it, ought to fit with the environmental agenda. There would be in outcry, but it would be in code, based on race and class. A cross-park service would improve access for residents of E. Flabush and Brownsville.
It is a boroughwide park, with very little parking. You don't want people driving there. There is only subway access from three lines without transfer, and given less frequent weekend service, that makes it a difficult trip. That leaves the bus.
First of all, Happy Holidays to everyone.
I have since seen this particular RTS with the vent holes on the upper left rear, but it has not as yet been repowered. Is that still in the plans for this bus?
Also, will they be DD50 repowering all remaining 6V92TA-powered RTSs or just the ones from 1992 and 1993?
And does the RTS have a future at NYCT (providing the new low-floor version is a hit)?
Bronx Division
______________
Amsterdam Depot
Gun Hill Depot
Kingsbridge Depot
Mother Clara Hale Depot
*split Depot
operations
Amsterdam Routes
BX3*,Bx6,Bx13*,Bx15,Bx36*,Bx42*,M100,M101*,M104
Gun Hill Routes
Bx4,Bx5 Bx8*,Bx12*,Bx14, Bx16*,Bx17 Bx22 Bx25 Bx26,bx27,Bx28* Bx29, Bx30 Bx31*,,,,Bx34 Bx36*,Bx39*,Bx40*,Bx42*
Kingsbridge
Bx1,Bx2,Bx3*,bx7,,Bx8*,Bx9,bx10,Bx11 ,Bx12*,Bx13*,Bx16*,Bx18,bx20,,Bx28*,bx31,bx32,bx35,
Bx36*,Bx39*,Bx40*,Bx41,Bx55
Mother Clara Hale Routes
Bx19,Bx21,Bx33,M1 ,m7,M30*,M98* ,M SH Lenox Av shuttle
---------------------------------------------------
MANHATTAN DIVISION
*Split Depot operations
Manhattanville Routes
M2,M3,M4,M5,M18,M60,M96*,M101*,M103
Hudson Routes
M6,M8,M9,M11,M14,M16,M21,M22,M34,Q32*
Michael J Quill Routes
M10,M20,m23,M27,M30*,M42,50,M72,M79,M86,M96*,M98*,
M102,M106,x90,x92
126 Street Routes
M15,M31,M35,M57,M66,M116
----------------------------------------------------
BROOKLYN DIVISION
*split Depot operations
East New York Routes
B7,B8,B12,B14,B15,B17,B20*,B25,B40,B42,B45,B60,B82,BB83,Q24,Q56
Jackie Gleason Routes
B9,B11,B16,B23,B35,B37,B43,b51,B61,B63,B65,B67,B68, B69,B70,B71,B75,B77
Flatbush Routes
B1,B6*,B39*,B31,B41,B44,B46,B49,B78
Fresh Pond Routes
B13,B18 ,B20*,B24,B26,B38,B39*,B48,B52,B54,B57,Q54,Q55,Q58*
Q59
Ulmer Park
B1,B3,B4,B6*,X25,X28,X29,B36,B64,B74
------------------------------------------------------
QUEENS DIVISION
*Split Depot Operations
Casey Stengel
Q12,Q13,Q14,Q15,Q16,Q20A,Q20B,Q26,Q27,Q28,Q32*,Q44,Q48,Q51,Q58*,Q74,Q76
Jamaica
Q3,Q4,Q5,Q17,Q42,X63.X64,Q77,Q84,Q85
Queens Village
Q1,Q2,Q30,q31,X32,Q36,Q43,Q46,X68,Q75,Q79,Q83,Q88
----------------------------------------------------
STATEN ISLAND DIVISION
*split depot operations
Castleton
x2*,X3*,X9*,X10,X11,X12,X13,X14,X16,X20,S40,S42,S44, S46,S48,S51,S52,S53,S54*,s55*,S56*,s57,s59*,s60,s67, s74*,s76*,s78*,s0,s92,s94,s96,s98
Yukon
X1,X2*,X3*,X4,X5,X6,X7,X8,X9*,X15,X17,X19,X31,s54*,S55*
When did Amsterdam join the Bronx division?
And did it grow? In the late 80's and early 90's, IINM it typically only carried three routes (always the M104 and I think the M100; for a while the M5 and later the M79).
Amsterdam became a Bronx Division depot in March of 98 when Walnut and 100 Street closed. Thats when the m79 and m116 switched to Quill and 126 St respectfully.
With the increase of routes(Bx6,Bx15,M100) lots of buses are parked in the street and a lot is leased from a warehouse where additional buses are kept.
Thanks for the info.
When was the M104 last not run out of Amsterdam?
The M104 still does run out of Amsterdam and probably is the only line that never has left since the day of trolley. However the M104 is a hard line to work. Very busy and its equally hard to be a dispatcher on the line also.
Yes, the M104 is quite busy, even late nights, and it's quite prone to bunching. Any idea why there's never been an M104 Limited? Yes, it would largely duplicate subway service, but most M104 passengers are going more than a few stops, and it's not like the subways run empty.
Its been discussed but if you make some limited that removes service from the locals so either you increase service or decrease it for limited. In these fically conscience days it takes years and maybe months to figure such things out!
Months? I rode the M104 on an essentially daily basis from 1986 to 1992. It was perpetually crowded then, and from what I've seen nothing's changed since (except that bus service citywide appears to have been slowed down). How many months does it take before someone acknowledges that the M104 needs more service, and that the best way to provide it might be as a limited? The M5 has a limited, and the M5 isn't as crowded as the M104. Even the M7 had a (trial) limited for a while!
I distinctly remember sometime around 1990 (this was shortly before a fare increase), standing on a packed rush hour M104 ("packed" meaning the front doors pressed against my back as they closed), when the driver announced towards those of us within earshot that, along with the fare increase, the TA would be cutting service on the M104. Could somebody explain that decision?
Incidentally, those packed buses were common on the RTSs but I don't think I ever found myself on a packed (to the front stairwell) New Look. At least on the busier routes, eliminating sideways seating was a big mistake. There was simply much more room for standees on the New Looks.
Its a common belief that the more service you have the more bus bunching will result. If you run a 3 to 4 minute headway which is common on the M104 it doesn't take much to have 3 to 4 buses traveling together, unless you had a dispatcher every 10 blocks which would never happen.
What I meant by months is traffic checkers are sent out data is checked then community meetings take place and so forth and so on.
Yes, bus bunching is a problem on the M104 -- although (in my experience) more often on the lines of six buses than three or four. Additional local service would only contribute to the problem, but additional limited service would help alleviate it by drawing crowds off the bunched buses and jumping ahead of them.
I don't know of any community meetings that have taken place regarding service improvements to the M104.
Usually the meetings are conducted by neighborhood groups. Recently there was ne at 86St and Broadway concerning Articulated service. These meetings are not the type advertised on the bus which take place on Madison Av. but are conducted by local neighborhood associations.
I know limited service on the 104 sounds good but I dont think it will happen anytime soon even though it has been suggested by customers like yourself and bus operator and dispatchers.
I'm sure some big wig somewhere has and could give a better reason than I can.
you missed the X27. Is it still assigned to UP and does trhis mean Amsterdam is getting more buses to accomadate the added routes?
[Is Amsterdam getting more buses to accommodate the additional service?]
Amsterdam has all the buses it needs. The Bx3, Bx13, Bx36 trips out of Amsterdam, as well as the M30 and M98 trips out of Hale, are AM extras. Both depots can fit them in with no difficulty because they're PM-heavy - that is, their fleet requirements are governed by the PM peak, not the AM peak. As a result, both have spare buses in the morning and can "help out" other depots.
What's the Q51? Is this supposed to be a TA route taking over one of the DOT routes that will never happen?
I think Steve means the X51
You are right,should have been the X51,===typo
thank you
Missed the B2 too. Will this route be going to Ulmer Park or stay at Flatbush?
B2 is going to Flatbush
I did a lot of routes..typos are bound to happen
Steve
Flatbush Depot
B2,B6*,B31,B39*,B41,B44,B46,B49,B78
Ulmer Park
B1,B3,Fresh Pond
B13,B18,B20*,B24,B26,B38,B39*,B48,B52,B54,B57,Q54,....Q55,Q58*.Q59
Flatbush Depot
B2,B6*,B31,B39*,B41,B44,B46,B49,B78
Ulmer Park
B1,B3,Fresh Pond
B13,B18,B20*,B24,B26,B38,B39*,B48,B52,B54,B57,Q54,....Q55,Q58*.Q59
Yukon
X1,X2*,X3*,X4,X5,x6,x7,x8,x9*,X15,X17,X19,X31,s54*,..S55*.S56*,S61.S74*s76*,,s78*,s79,s91
the 55 and 56 are split? That makes little sense. The route needs only 4 buses for full service!
Unless you're counting school trips...
-Hank
Hank,,this came from a formal document
Dec 11,2000 Weekdays 6 AM to 10 AM
East of Targee St, to VZ Toll Plaza
X10,X11,X12,X17,X19
The X17 exludes all trips via NJ
Unfortunately, this lane is not of much use, since it's used by so few routes and covers a section of the highway that usually moves ok.
-Hank
Nov 27 2000 to Sept 2,2001
due to Construction along 50 street between 4av and 8 Av,,EASTBOUND
Regular route via 52 st,9 Av,,left on 9 av,to 50,right on 50 st,and regular route
Effective Sunday Nov 26,.2000, to Sunday January 7 ,2001
M1,M1LTD,M4,M4LTD,Q32
---will not stop on 5Av at 49 st,
---M1 LTD and M4 LTD will stop at 52 st
M2,M2LTD,M3,M5,M5 LTD
--will not stop on 5 av at 50 st
--M2 ,M3,M5 will stop at 47 st and 53 st
--M2 LTD and M5 LTD will stop at 53 st
M6 route
---will not stop at Sixth and 50 st
---will stop at 48 st and 52 st
M5 M5 LTD,M7
---will not stop at Sixth av and 49
---M5,M7 will stop at 47 st and 51
---M5 LTD will stop at 51 st
M27 and M50
----will not stop along 49 st and 50 st between 5 and 6 avenues
----M27 and M50 will use bus stops on east side of 5 av or west side of 6 av
X51
--Will not stop on 6 av at 50
--will stop on 6 av at 51 st
Effective Sunday Nov 26,2000 to January 7,2001 Staten Island Bound Buses Near Rockefeller Center
Regular Route via 7 Av to 42 st
Left on 42 st to 5 av
Right on 5 av,
Regular Route
Effective Monday December 4,2000
Terminal Stand on Lee Av between Middleton St and Wallabout St in Williamsburg Street.No longer on Lynch Street
RANDALL SHUTTLE
X80 920AM to 0130AM
X80 from Lexington Av and East 125 st to Randall Island
Start at M35 Stop on Lexington and East 125 st,continue South on Lexington to east 124 st,Left on 124 st,Triboro Bridge ,to Randalls Island Exit,enter bus staging area between Bronx Ramp and Main Roadway under Triboro Bridge Overpass
From Randalls Island to Lex Av and east 125 st
via Exit the bus staging area and follow Roadway to bridge ramp to Manahattan ,Exit the Bridge to East 126 and turn left on Lexington Av
---------------------------------------------------
X81 Randalls Island Shuttle
Casey Stengel Depot
920 AM to 0130 Am
From 61 st and Roosevelt Av Woodside station to Randalls Island
via
Left on Roosevelt Av,Left on BQE to Grand Central Parkway to Triboro Bridge Exit at Randalls Island .Downing Staduim.Follow Roadway past Parks Dept HQ TBTA HQ....to stop at Unmarked M35 Stop facing south at Truck Restrictions Ahead Sign between Red Hydrant and Weight Limit 15 Tons Sign .Along side Elevated Hwy Pillars
From Randalls Island to 61 st Woodside Station
via
from stop at Unmarked M35 stop ,follow Randalls Island Roadway ,180 degreees to Left ,Follow Roadway Past TBTA and Parks dept HQ ,Randalls Island Roadway becomes Queens Bound Entrance to Triboro Bridge ..To Grand Central Parkway,To BQE,Broadway Exit Right on 37 Av,Left on 61 st,stand in rear of Q53 Stop ,near side of Roosevelt Av
The X80 operates out of what depot? Is it 126 or MV.
not specified on the run sheets
So is this coming up?..i.e. - are they planning premiuim fare service to Randalls Island? and for what..some new development?
nyct will provide x10 service from 57 st at midnight and 1 am and x1 service at midnight 12:30 and 1 am for staten islanders in manhattan 12/31 new years eve.
i swear big al said this bus was at jamaica so imagine my surprise seeing it on the x28. 9270-9274 are at quill along with 9276 but the rest dont appear to be going anywhere.
9264 is at Jamaica right now along with 9257-9259. I've seen 9259 in service at Jamaica on the X63. 9260-9263 just might not have beent ransiferred over to Jamaica yet. From what I heard, up to 9269 are heading to Jamaica. But yet the 1700/1800 RTS Suburbans are still chugging over here. Once 2001 comes, those 1700 & 1800s will be a part of history-you'll see.
X63#1755Gary
X64#9264Gary
9264 is at Jamaica right now along with 9257-9259. I've seen 9259 in service at Jamaica on the X63. 9260-9263 just might not have been transferred over to Jamaica yet. From what I heard, up to 9269 are heading to Jamaica. But yet the 1700/1800 RTS Suburbans are still chugging over here. Once 2001 comes, those 1700 & 1800s will be a part of history-you'll see.
X63#1755Gary
X64#9264Gary
Yes, right after I posted that message it occured to me that we do not yet have 9260, but it was too late for me to change it. So far we do have 9257, 9258, 9259, 9261 & 9264 from Ulmer Park. And all 5 1700 & 1800 buses are still running in service on the Express lines. And 3865 was scrapped today.
BIG AL
I saw 1740 running last night on the Q17 outside 188st and Horace Harding (Kmart). What a beautiful sight she was. She even had her "overhaul" sticker on the front interior panel.
Reverend "Big Al", I was truly touched by your ode to 1746 but I know you will do everything in your power to keep 1740, a Stengel original, running. She sounded good, ran well, and her customers were happy. I know you will guard that bus day and night if need be, to make sure she does not go "On The Road To Nimco", as so many of her dear brothers and sisters already have.
Thank you.
Flx7595.
Drivers from the x27 at Ulmer Park are still being trained on the MCI Busses. Training has been going very slow and since a new pick goes into effect in early January, some drivers have been reluctant to be trained. Once your trained, you;re not supposed to drive RTS Coaches. I believe that once the new pick goes into effect and all the drivers on the x27 have been trained, the rest of the busses will be transferred over.
Shaun
youre not supposed to drive rts coaches. someone better tell that to schoolroom at hudson pier. i didnt drive rts since 11/99 yet in oct 2000 they had me drive one for 19a recertification. MTA (moronic and totally asinine.)
Even I have to admit 1740 is in pretty good shape and as you all know I am not a big fan of the 1982 coaches. Jamaica maintainence seems to be more interested in scrapping the 1984-1986 coaches right now than the remaining 1982's. But once the rest of those Novas come in from Ulmer Park, it looks like their days will be numbered.
BIG AL
Sorry that this may be a little late for you, but the plans for Arnold Joseph is as follows:
Graveside services will be held at Beth Moses Cemetary in Pine Lawn, (LI) New York.
Services are at 11:00AM, Thursday December 28,2000
Cemetary info # is (631) 249-2290.
The LIRR Ronkonkoma line runs near there. This would be the Pinelawn Station. Beth Moses would be south of the tracks on Wellwood Ave. a few blocks or so on your left.
LV: Penn Sta 8:09AM / Flatbush Ave. 8:15AM AR: Pinelawn 9:10AM
LV: Penn Sta 9:16AM / Flatbush Ave. 9:03AM AR: Pinelawn 10:14AM
The next train would stop at Pinelawn at 11:14AM
LV: Pinelawn 11:34AM & 12:34PM
Southern State Pkwy Wellwood Ave. exit. Follow signs to cemetary. Beth Moses is on right before tracks.
Cause of death was reportedly due to Parkinsons Disease and cancer.
Bill "Newkirk"
This afternoon after work I drove to Haverhill MA to ride on a couple of buses of the Merrimack Valley Regional Transit Authority. I parked at the Westgate Plaza (served by 3 routes) and rode into downtown Haverhill on the 4:25 PM inbound Route 15 Hilldale Ave/Westgate, the bus on this trip was # 8715 a 1987 GMC RTS 35 foot which was rehabbed about a year and a half ago. This bus was #529 prior to the rehab.This bus is one of 19 RTS bought in 1987, among the last GMC built RTS made The MVRTA RTS were originally numbered 521-539, the rehabs are now renumbered 8701-8716. 3 of these RTS were not rehabbed.I can confirm that 533 did not get rehabbed and is no longer in the active fleet. These buses have state issued RTA license plates MVRTA 21-MVRTA 39. ( I spotted plate MVRTA 33 on a paratransit mini bus).The rehabbed RTS kept the same license plates but the new numbers do not necessarily correspond to the last digits of the plates. The bus engine sounds great the way a GMC RTS should.
The return trip was the 5:25 Route 19 Summer St/Westgate.The bus on this trip was #9904 a 1999 Gillig Phanton 35 foot, 1 of 12 1999 35 footers in the MVRTA fleet (9901-9912). The MVRTA also has 14 1996 Gillig Phanton 35 footers (9601-9614).
I did see a notice posted in 9904 that starting on Jan 2, there will be expanded weekday service on several MVRTA routes, earlier starts and later runs and that new schedules will be available tomorrow (12/28). I asked the driver if she knew any more about this and she answered that only a few routes would see more service, the route 19 not among them.Currently MVRTA service runs pretty much from 5AM-7:15PM weekdays, and 7:40AM-7:15PM Saturdays,no Sunday service.Some routes start later and end earlier (the 5:25 PM Route 19 I rode is the last trip of the day on weekdays).In the middle of afternoon rush hour, most MVRTA routes are making their last runs.The Lawrence MVRTA routes are all on a pulse system,the last Lawrence routes depart the transit station at 5:50PM weekdays.Several RTA's in Massachusetts wrap up their runs before 7PM.Only a few systems run later (MBTA,Worcester RTA,PVTA in Springfield area, Brockton BAT). I'm curious to see how much later the MVRTA will be running and how many of their routes will do so. The new schedules are not yet up on their web site www.mvrta.com
By the way, I hear the MVRTA just got some federal $$$ to aid in purchasing some new buses in 2001.My guess is that the 1987 RTS will be the ones replaced,so if anyone wants to ride or get photos of some of the last GMC built RTS buses still rolling, head up this way sometime soon.
Mark Watson
If I'm not mistaken, MVRTA also has a few 35' Orion Is operating in Newburyport, numbered 700-709. I tried to ride one last summer, but unfortunately I never got to ride one - they obviously don't run on Saturdays, even though the sked says so.
It's true: the T runs their buses as late as 1:30am. I think many of the other regional RTAs don't have as much demand for buses during the night as the larger cities, thus closing at 7pm is about right, although not for those who depend wholly on the buses. The flip side to running late is you get all the unsavory characters, bus bunching, etc.
MVRTA has a total of 6 Orion 1 35 footers. They are 1991 models, originally numbered 707-712. 3 of them have been rehabbed and renumbered, 707 is now 9101,708 is now 9102, and I believe 712 just returned to active service after being rehabbed and renumbered 9106. I will try to confirm this.709,710 and 711 were spotted in service as recently as last week. They did have 6 1989 Orion 1 30 footers 701-706 that they got rid of when the 1999 Gilligs arrived. One of those 30 footers reportedly went to Nashua NH Transit System,although I have never seen it on the road in Nashua.
MVRTA has 3 routes serving Newburyport: Route 51 Haverhill/Newburyport, Route 52 Amesbury/Newburyport and Route 53 Newburyport Commuter Rail Shuttle. The 51 & 52 run Monday- Saturday,while the 53 only runs Monday-Friday. The 51 runs every 70 minutes on Saturdays,the 52 is every 60-70 minutes on Saturdays as well.
Mark Watson
[(MVRTA) did have 6 1989 Orion 1 30 footers 701-706 that they got rid of when the 1999 Gilligs arrived. One of those 30 footers reportedly went to Nashua NH Transit System,although I have never seen it on the road in Nashua.]
Nashua started it's system with 9 ex-Delaware DART 35-ft fishbowls when the system began in 1985. In addition, there were two GM Old Looks that were on the roster, both of which were formerly owned by Hudson Bus Lines.
In 1987, Citybus purchased 7 new Orion I 30-ft buses, #200-206. Apparently, #203 was stripped for parts within recent years, so it's possible the ex-MVRTA Orion that went to Nashua was purchased for parts and not for revenue service. Also within the past couple of years, Nashua purchased to ex-Richmond (VA) 30-ft Gilligs, #8702 and #8704.
According to a good inside source, my ex-wife,who worked for Nashua Citybus for 1 week last March, she saw this ex-MVRTA Orion 1 in the Citybus garage.It was still in the old MVRTA colors,was registered,but she did not see it on the road at all the week she was there.She drove Orions that week,did not drive the Gilligs.
Speaking of the ex-Richmond Gilligs,8702 has joined 203 in the side yard outside the garage.License plates off,farebox gone,otherwise still intact as of a couple of weeks ago.8704 remains on the road as last check.I rode it a few weeks ago,it was horrendously loud,spewing smoke like crazy,looking pretty tired.The electonic destination sign was not working,route # written out by a black magic marker displayed on a piece of cardboard in the lower right corner front windshield.Most of the 200 series Orions are starting to shows signs of wear,some rust here and there.As far as I know, these buses have never been rehabbed. My ex-wife was told the week she worked there that new Gilligs had been ordered to replace the Orions, and that they were expected to arrive early 2001,which is soon. I'll try to find out when they are expected to actually arrive.
Mark Watson
First of all, Happy Holidays to everyone.
Re #8196: We have since seen this particular RTS with the vent holes on the upper left rear, but it has not as yet been repowered. Is that still in the plans for this bus?
Also, will they be DD50 repowering all remaining 6V92TA-powered RTSs or just the ones from 1992 and 1993?
And does the RTS have a future at NYCT (providing the new low-floor version is a hit)?
Thanks in advance.
I called up Cablevision Systems yesterday and was told by a nice young lady that Transit Transit will be on their Woodbury System on
MONDAYS AT 3:30 PM for the forseeable future. The Woodbury System covers most of Nassau County and Western Suffolk. TT is not on the Hauppauge System.
I guess we'll have to set our VCR's since most of us have to be at work at that time, except this coming Monday which is New Year's Day.
Looks like I had a weird transit dream last night.
It seems that I found myself on the BX 12 going to Fordham Road. The thing was the bus was a green "Fishbowl" from the 60's. Also, the bus was taking the scenic way. We found ourselves on the Hutch River Parkway North getting off to take the Cross County Parkway. Busses aren't even allowed to use these roads and the whole area is like 10 miles out of the way, but it's funny how you don't think about all of this in a dream.
We then passed another Fishbowl. This time it was one painted with the white w/blue strip scheme. The bus was in very sad condition. It was completely stripped and vandalized. In my dream, I was trying to look at the number to report this horrible thing on BUSTALK when I got back. After we passed the bus, it started to snow heavily. But the good old bus I was in handled very well. I then try to see who the driver is and it is a guy who looked a lot like Robert DeNiro. Then I woke up.
I then realized that my trip to Blockbuster Video must have stuck in my head. I saw the tape for A BRONX TALE but didn't pick it up. I also heard of Jason Robards's passing and saw the tape for QUICK CHANGE (there is a white bus driven by Phil Bosco) but I also didn't pick that tape up. And I guess the explanation for the snow is the storm the news keeps talking about. Strange, strange dreams.
Was the driver wearing an olive Surface Transit uniform or was he wearing the blue OA uniform.
He was wearing the blue uniform. And short sleeves no less.
Meanwhile it's snowing outside!
With a major snow storm on the way (provided the weathermen aren't blowing it out of proportion to boost the ratings!) I would like to remind all the operators in NYCT and other agencies that use RTS's, to try to avoid driving the Nova's and 1990 - 1994 TMC's, if at all possible. Try to request a 3 or 4000 (NYCT). Having driven the Novas in the snow, I can honestly say they are horrible. Sliding every which way you can think of and very hard to stop. Almost impossible to control. And this is only with 1-2 inches on the ground. The 3 and 4000's on the other hand are very good. Great traction and hardly no sliding at all. I believe the reason for this is due to steel chasis on the older buses while the 8000's and up have aluminum chasis.
BIG AL
What about the low floor buses? this is going to get interesting, especially if it is a major snowstorm. Picture the blizzard of 1996-with 26 inches. the weather guys say 8-16 inches. can the low floor buses maneuver in snow and how much snow would it take to shut the system down?>
Years ago, when you had the fishbowls and even before that the old "flat bottoms" you could put chains on the rear wheels for traction. You can't do that on an RTS because they destroy the wheel-well. I assume the same would hold true for the Orions and New Flyers. But if the driver can't steer the bus, it doesn't matter if they have chains or not. The TA philosophy is that ALL accidents can be avoided. Their attitude: if the accident happened when you were going 10 MPH, it is still your fault because you should have been driving at 5 MPH! The driver is guilty till proven innocent.
I just hope I don't get snowed in, in Sea Cliff. So exactly how many inches of snow could shut down LI Bus, especially here on the north shore with all the hilly and windy roads?
The north shore tends to get shut early because of the hills and the ice that occurs there. A storm like this should have the service back if it is even suspended in a few hours to a day.
I hope to move out of this horrible area next year (it's almost here already). It's murder on a single guy with no car and little income.
Where do you plan to move?
Levittown, Bellmore, Wantagh, Massapequa, Merrick and vicinity
I've been in Sea Cliff many times and I think it is very nice place to live. I hear that is also the #1 area where the police put in to work out of. Crime is almost non existent and I personally know one officer who works Sea Cliff and he says he plans to work there till he retires and wouldn't think of working anyplace else. He says most days he gets not 1 radio call! He admits sometimes he spends the entire day doing absolutely nothing at all. Ocasionally he will write a moving violation but only because of the quota system.(Yes, there is a quota they have to write for the month.)
It sounds to me, John, that you are only unhappy because of the firehorn. That is unfortunate that you live in that one hot spot that is not so desirable. I would just relocate someplace away from the fire horn. But to call the whole place horrible is completely unfair.
BIG AL
Betcha Orions will fare even worse. Anybody had an experience with Orions in the snow?
I'd like to know how Artics fared...
-Hank
From Our Family To Yours, The TransiTALK Family Wishes You A Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Years!
HAPPY 2001
www.transitalk.com
Today, I observed at least 8 Triboro Coach buses stored at Jamaica Bus depot. Because of the fence covering on 165 St. and Linden Blvd., I couldn't get all the numbers but here is what I have: RTS #'s 659,695,701,717 and 2 other unknown numbers. One methanol #2144. One repainted MCI unknown number. Any contributor here on BusTalk know why they are at Jamaica Bus and what the disposition is?
I reported that several months ago, over the summer I believe. Nobody gave me an answer. I thought those buses were going to be repainted and put into service but I saw them still siting in the same spot just last week.
BIG AL
I ASSUME-if Triboro Coach buses are at Jamaica Bus Lines Depot(DOT), then they're going to go into service for Jamaica Bus Lines. I DO NOT think that Triboro Coach will give JBL buses to repaint in the TCC new scheme and then to send back to TCC but I could be wrong. What it seems to me would be this:
These 6 RTS will go into service for JBL as buses 584-589. The highest in service now is 583 and I think that's an EX-Command. 2144 MAY become JBL 3866 or some other weird number like 3702. But otherwise, HOPEFULLY Trevor can help us out with this info because I'm clueless.
PS This is the reason why you're seeing 3000 Express Orions on local routes.
Q18#696Gary
Q111#565Gary
Don't forget that both JBL & CTC are owned by the Coopers. Maybe its a matter of storage.
OK I figured this out. Take a look at these 2 pics that I took:
First is the repaint of TCC 2817:
And Now this pic of JBL 583:
Notice that the number fonts on these 2 buses are exactly the same. Like you said, these 2 bus companies are owned by the Coopers. 659, 695, 701 and 717 are buses that still have the old scheme on them. I bet that Jamaica Bus Lines will redo these buses in the new TCC Scheme and then send them back. Also, most TCC Buses are parked in the streets. It COULD be a matter of storage-but I doubt that. What made me figure this out was that there's a TCC MCI Classic Bus with the new scheme at JBL now. It could either be 770, 786, 793 OR a bus that's being done over (764, 765, 766, 767 etc). We will see in the upcoming weeks if these buses come back to TCC or not. 2144 I bet is Jamaica Bus Lines' property now since the Methanol Buses are being put out of commission.
Q18#2817Gary
Q111#583Gary
Anybody here on BusTalk know where I can link to can get a roster of the Nassau Co. MSBA bus fleet? Please post on BusTalk or E Mail me. Thanks!
Try TransiTalk's roster at: http://www.geocities.com/transitalk/Rosters/LIBus_Roster.html
There is also one at Bus Rosters on the Web, but I don't think it's quite up to date. It is at:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9036/MSBA.html
[Try TransiTalk's roster at: http://www.geocities.com/transitalk/Rosters/LIBus_Roster.html]
This is the current snapshot roster.
[There is also one at Bus Rosters on the Web, but I don't think it's quite up to date. It is at:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9036/MSBA.html]
This is actually the all-time MSBA/LI Bus roster. The second web site hasn't been updated in at least 4 months.
Thank you Sid from NJ for the links and ctrabs 74 for your additional contribution.
To my knowledge UP has scrapped all the 1982-84 coaches, and moved 7038, 7048-7049, 9257-9259, 9261, 9264, 9270-9274, 9276 and 9277 to other depots. I know that the 4800's are still alive, but my question is where have the 1985's gone. Are the 3800's and 4168 still in service?
Mark
They may either be at Flatbush, other depots, stored at a yard somewhere or still at Ulmer Park but doing local service. And boy do they need local service in UP. Last Saturday I rode behind 9107 on the B1 on 86 St and this bus sounded like a tank. It was very loud, squeaky and annoying to be behind. My friends and I couldn't pass the bus until we got out of being under the "el." Then we got away from it until Dyker Heights then from a long block away-I heard the Beast coming. Another bus that looked junky from UP was 9093 but I saw her on the B4. Figure this 1 out: 4768 looked really good-naked of all its ads and sounded good too. Go figure.
B1#4768Gary
Some 1985s such as 3916 and 3965, along w/ some 1984s 3562 and 3503 have gone to Flatbush from Ulmer Park. These have all been converted to soft seats and Flatbush now seems to have a little of every type of RTS.
Looking thru mark's roster, i noted under castleton bus 6300 with "VIP bus' next to it.
Any ideas??
The Department of Buses uses selected buses to carry guests and dignitaries from out of town. These buses, as well as the buses used for the Roadeo are called "VIP buses". The actual buses are subject to change and are usually the newest buses in the fleet. Yukon's Orion 6300 was one such bus. I don't know what it was used for though.
Mark
Here are 2 pics that I got over the summer when I rode good ol 6300 on the S44:
Enjoy and have a Happy New Year to All from the TransitWorld Family.
S44#6300Gary
si division xmas bus it was used to take toys to st vincents hospital. these are given to kids with cancer. transp. and maint contribute toys and money so these kids can have a better xmas. we do this every year. bus is decorated with lights and stuffed animals.
Well, I'll be darned, an Orion CAN do some good. :)
What was the story on these buses I found in my collection taken at the old Walnut?
alt="http://www.geocities.com/blightliner/scrap.2.jpg">
The RTS may be 3702, which was broadsided by a fuel truck. Fortunately, the bus was on its way to it's route and the driver escaped uninjured. The Blitz/Fishbowl may be 5229 (28?) which lost its' brakes on 42nd St. and crashed into a scaffold on the side of a building.
BUZZ! I'll wait a few to see if anyone can guess. Hint, both buses were at Hudson Pier. Look at the scrapped 9000 for a time zone.
The Blitz was 5304. It went up parked next to 3293 which caught fire at Hudson Pier. Both buses are shown at Walnut.
With the impending storm, I know the Bus Command Center operates under certain rules and regs.
They are classified as red, yellow, and blue alert.
Does anyone know the parameters of each level?
first is yellow when a storm is approaching. basically all it means is if you fail to come to work you will need doctors lines if claiming illness. full service is expected. blue alert partial service. red alert. the system is virtually shut down. last red alert jan 10 1996. we may see one tomorrow if an excess of a foot of snow occurs. you will get paid as long as you show up before clearing time. you may have to walk. you can go to nearest depot when red alert called.
We don't have that in Boston. We do have Snow Routes, however, and if there's a steep hill, the bus won't run there and you have to walk (ugh) to the closest bus stop.
I know Washington has a similar thing for hot weather. Red Alert days were for hot days above 90 degrees and high smog was present. WMATA offers passengers to ditch their cars and ride the buses for free, and I did taking Orion V #4318 to downtown Alexandria. DASH was free too, and I took that back to King St station.
M100/X7: Mile-long uphill along Broadway from Dyckman to 181st. Not steep, but LONG!
M79: Steep uphill along West 79th from Riverside to Broadway- and in an Artic!
BX1: Steep hills along narrow, curving Heath and Sedgewick Avenues, also in Artic.
BX9, 12: Murderous curving hills along Fordham and Kingsbridge Roads respectively on ridges parellel to Deegan and Concourse.
BX18, 36, 40: Ridge west of and parellel to Jerome make for steep hills and curves along Macombs Road, Tremont and Burnside Avenues respectively. The topography of the West Bronx is cited as one reason the 1969 Flxibles, with their supposedly more powerful engines, were heavily assigned to that borough.
BX7: Riverdale Avenue has sharp ascent north from 230th Street, to the point where main roadway (where buses go) and service road are on separate elevations.
BX10: Johnson Avenue has even sharper ascent south from 230th Street, and runs along top of cliff overlooking much of west Bronx. This culminates in sharp hairpin onto Kappock Street.
BX28/30: Bronx River and Parkway form deep valley from which Gun Hill Road abruptly rises in both directions.
B75: Long uphill along blessedly wide and straight 9th Street from 3rd Avenue all the way to Prospect Park- six long blocks. New Flyers may prove to be top-heavy.
B11: 50th Street sharply uphill along same ridge that runs along entire Brooklyn harborfront, but much narrower and sure to be littered with abandoned or poorly parked cars.
B1/9: Similar conditions along two-way, but not much wider Bay Ridge Avenue from Shore Road up to Colonial Road.
B24: Extremely steep ascent on both sides of Kosciuszko Bridge, made worse by deterioration of paving job allowing old steel grids to re-emerge again.
B13/18: Cypress Hills Street runs over edge of glacier with extremely sharp curves, no so coincidentally through cemeteries. Probably was divided for a reason.
Q17/75: Edge of same glacier runs width of Queens below Interboro/Grand Central corridor, making for extremely steep conditions north from Hillside Avenue. The 188th Street hill is probably the worst, combined with the fact that downhill buses must wait at precarious angles for notoriously long Hillside lights.
Q30/31: Parallel Home Lawn hill somewhat milder than 188th, but downhill buses must jog sharply to right, then turn sharply left immediately before Hillside, all while going downhill.
Q65: 164th Street hill almost as bad as 188th.
Q10: Lefferts Boulevard runs uphill either direction from Metropolitan Avenue, a busy intersection with many stores, and with sharp curves to the south, followed by long straight descent towards Jamaica Avenue.
Q67: Narrow, curving 53rd Drive uphill from Maurice Avenue into fabled Maspeth plataeu.
Q15: Sharp turns on narrow, somewhat hilly residential streets in rural corner of Whitestone. Frustrated parkers are sure to ignore No Parking (due to bus turn) signs.
Q12: Normally fast, intersectionless stretch of Northern Boulevard between Cross Island and Douglaston Parkways marred by long, gradual uphills at either end, many exit ramps for CIP and perennial lane shifts and closures.
As far as Staten Island, there's too much to even think about, but Victory Boulevard, Forest Avenue, Castleton Avenue, Jersey Street, Cebra Avenue, Howard Avenue, Manor Road and Rockland Avenue are enough food for thought.
Can't wait to see what happens tomorrow!
I'm glad I'm not a bus driver!
In Nassau I'd say the N21 must be interesting to ride in a snowstorm.
With all the hills and windy roads, it would be a real challange.
Would I be crazy to attempt to catch an N21 tomorrow?
What would really be nice is the Sea Cliff fire dept rescue horn got covered in snow and wouldn't work. It's been going off for 10 minutes already, they sure do respond slowly (waiting for crew to arrive at S.C. Firehouse).
Fire dept rescue times can be up to 15 to 20 minutes (from what I hear on my scanner) and I read the F.D. has some lawsuits pending.
Gotta get out of this hellhole called Sea Cliff! I have to put up with this horn 3 to 5 times everyday at all hours. And it's about 10 times louder than the DE/DM horns.
Now I gotta go and take an ibuprofen from all this loud horn noise (and it sets off all the car alarms).
There is one near my school. What is the use of those horns? The're loud as hell.
In Sea Cliff they are used to alert volunteer ambulance crews to respond to firehouse and get orders from there. Apparently the Sea Cliff fire department cannot afford a new pager system from what I heard. They claim that signal irregularity due to topography claims the system would be unreliable.
This area is sure stuck in the stone age, using horns to alert volunteers. The result is a horrible response time, often ambulances don't depart the firehouse until 10 or 15 minutes after the horn first sounds, I oughtta know I live right by the SC Fire Dept.
Most if not all Volunteer Fire Depts on LI still use horns or sirens to alert members. (Sorry to get off topic).
travis volunteer fire dept in staten island also uses horns. its off topic but we have two volunteer cos. in staten island.
As we do in Queens with West Hamilton Beach and Broad Channel
Not at 3 in the morning! When I lived in Wantagh or Bellmore they sounded them during the day but never after 9pm.
I used to have a summer house in Long Branch, N.J. and there was a firehouse right behind our house which to this day still has the blasting horn. John is right, the only reason for the horn is to alert the volunteer people that they are needed. In NJ, we used to get blasted out of bed all hours of the night. I remember it would make a loud "W H O P" about every 3-5 seconds. Then you would hear babies crying in all the houses around your own.
BIG AL
The Q58 is always reliable when there is inclement weather.
We'll see about that next week when I'll have to ride it to Queens Blvd. I'll count how many times the Q59 will bail me out. Beginning Tueday, 8 chances to ride 4212.
I know the Q44/20 operators are happy to be using Queens Blvd full time now instead of 150 Street.
Apparently Bee Line Bus Lines isn't taking a chance to see how fun it is. According to WCBS, they are O/S for Saturday.
I'll be on Broadway and 79St tommorrow 11A-7P and hoping for the best. Hope my 79's dont get stuck!
When I was a operator the M-2 was tough going up the 155St bridge and then up Edgecombe Av. You better hope you dont have to stop on either on the up cause you wont start again without a little jiggling of the shifter between 2 and Drive.
The m-7's was tough also at Manhattan Av. and 106St. buses always slide badly in that area.
I'll be on Broadway and 79St tommorrow 11A-7P and hoping for the best. Hope my 79's dont get stuck!
When I was a operator the M-2 was tough going up the 155St bridge and then up Edgecombe Av. You better hope you dont have to stop on either on the up cause you wont start again without a little jiggling of the shifter between 2 and Drive.
The m-7's was tough also at Manhattan Av. and 106St. buses always slide badly in that area.
And dont forget the Lexington Av hill at 102 St.! Many a bus have not made that hill in the snow. Lucky I never operated there in the snow.
What's the reason for having to put this same message 3 times on the board?
BIG AL
Cause I can!
I'll be on Broadway and 79St tommorrow 11A-7P and hoping for the best. Hope my 79's dont get stuck!
When I was a operator the M-2 was tough going up the 155St bridge and then up Edgecombe Av. You better hope you dont have to stop on either on the up cause you wont start again without a little jiggling of the shifter between 2 and Drive.
The m-7's was tough also at Manhattan Av. and 106St. buses always slide badly in that area.
And dont forget the Lexington Av hill at 102 St.! Many a bus have not made that hill in the snow. Lucky I never operated there in the snow.
Any one familiar with the shortturn ,,nr the Bronx VA Hospital
I know there were shortturns in this area,,approx
Thanks
Steve
M79: Steep uphill along West 79th from Riverside to Broadway- and in an Artic!
Don't forget the hill on 81st between Amsterdam and Columbus. It's not as steep as the one further west but it's on a narrow side street, double parked cars and all.
Houston has a version of the RTS with no wheelchair lift and the back doors expand outward as the front doors instead of pushing out. Also, they have a metal pole in the middle of the stairwell so people can exit on either side. I doubt this is a WBD RTS, but still, it's kind of unique.
That sounds like the RTS-03's that Green Lines just retired this past summer
That is not necessarily an RTS of any specific release; that feature would be available on any RTS. The swing-out RTS rear doors, reminiscent of other bus models, have been an option on RTS's since 1981. Of course, every RTS in NYC is so equipped, as are all RTS's in Los Angeles except for the 8200's. I've also seen the swing-out doors on RTS's in Phoenix, and WMATA replaced the standard pantograph RTS doors with the swing-outs after some severe problems with the original doors. NovaBUS has been using the swing-outs in RTS publicity. This type of rear door coupled with a WFD arrangement at the front creates an RTS with no pantographing doors whatsoever. You call that an RTS!?!
The swing-out doors are the same width as the regular pantographing doors; they fit into that same second-to-last window position.
As for the vertical bar cited by my colleague RTS_2150, I suppose that was just an option for non-accessible RTS's with these doors.
Neil
>>>This type of rear door coupled with a WFD arrangement at the front creates an RTS with no pantographing doors whatsoever. You call that an RTS!?!<<<
I've never ridden an RTS without the swing-out doors. I thought that's how all of them were made.
>>> I've never ridden an RTS without the swing-out doors. I thought that's how all of them were made. <<<
You thought that's how all of -what- were made?
RTS-01 and RTS-03 were available with only the standard pantograph rear doors. As I said, WMATA and possibly some others retrofitted their RTS-03's with swing-out doors.
I suspect that New York really liked the RTS in the early 80's, but feared that the orignal rear door arrangement would slow things down. Wisely, GM whipped up an option for the swing-outs which consequently appeared on every NYC RTS ever delivered. As production continued, other TA's became interested, so the swing-out rear door became an option for all RTS's on the -04 and models thereafter.
Today, NovaBUS offers the RTS-06 and the RTS-08 with either standard pantograph rear doors or the swing-outs.
While I think that pantograph rear doors on an RTS might just be the coolest experience I'll ever have upon egress of a transit bus, you should try the swing-outs. The RTS's in NYC have strips which activate an air-assist, but when I'm in NYC, I like to flaunt my knowledge of the bus by just shoving the doors open manually. I've seen swing-out doors on RTS's in other cities which are operated by pushing a bar on the doors themselves. The back doors of the newer RTS's here in Detroit are operated by the driver exclusively, so average passengers enjoy a hands-free deboarding. That's a bad thing for bus fans like myself.
Neil
¡Qué viva el subjuntivo!
I can't believe I had it mixed up. I call the standard pantograph doors, swing outs, and the NYC Style doors, push outs because they remind me of the push out doors on Flxible buses.
I think the swing-out doors makes the RTS look a lot better. Before the 1999-2000 NJT Novas entered service, I was crossing my fingers, hoping they would have swing-out doors and sliding windows.
I guess not . . .
Well, what exactly is the difference between swing outs and push outs?
Swings outs are mainly driver operated (except some have a bar you touch and the door swings out(these are used by the RTS's at NJ Transit).While the push outs are your usual door that buses have been using since new look Fishbowls( except now they are air assisted by pushing the strip of yellow tape on the door)Thse have been on NYCTA RTS's since the RTS-04's ( except the yellow tapes been used since the 3000's)and now on the Orion V & VI's and New Flyer 40 and 60 foot buses .
Okay, then if "push-out" is the proper term . . .
I think that the RTS looks better with the rear doors that are straight and have to be pushed out, like the ones on the Grummans, Flxibles, Orions, etc . . .
And it was this type of rear door that I had hoped NJ Transit specified for the new Novas . . . .
I think the RTS looks better with the pantograph doors, since it holds up with the smooth design. Besides, I think the flat doors look too far inset into the body of the bus. However, with other buses, like the Orions and NABIs and Neoplans, where there isn't so much of a round design, I think it looks better. Also, the problem with the flat doors of the RTS is that the door panels are huge, so it is less attractive.
With one of the biggest, if not the biggest concern with low floor buses being seating capacity, or lack of therof, it would appear that extending the maximum length of such a bus to either 42.5 or 45 feet would be an ideal solution. Also, for those agencies desiring higher overall capacity but not wanting to go the articulated route, a similar length extension on either standard(high-floor) or low floor models would make good sense.
Thoughts and opinions, anyone?
NABI produces a 45' version of it's Low Floor CompoBUS. It's called the NABI 45C-LFW CompoBUS Low Foor.
CompoBUS utilizes a single piece structure containing the vehicle’s body and chassis elements. The material utilized in this novel, unitized structure consists of a glass-fiber reinforced, vinyl-ester resin laminate, produced using SCRIMP technology. SCRIMP (Seeman Composite Resin Infusion Molding Process) is a specialized and patented resin-transfer technique performed under high vacuum. As vacuum is applied, SCRIMP’s patented resin distribution system wets-out laminates completely and achieves complete fiber compacting.
Also to NABI is in the midst of producing a 45' Cruisre Coach to run in competition with New Flyer's D45S "Viking" Cruisre Coach. I wouldn't say it can compete with the MCI D/E/F/G Series Cruisers becuase MCI definately has the advantage!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Intriguing...would they work in New York?
Why not ,the 60 footer's work.Plus has the TA even ever considered the low floor version of New Flyer Artric.It looks like a good bus and the TA can kill 2 birds with one stone.A low floor for the heavily traveled routes in the city
I believe Phoenix (Valley Metro) ordered some of the NABI 45-foot buses. I didn't see any while I was there a few weeks ago, so I suspect they are due for delivery sometime in 2001.
I saw some longer than usual transit buses (perhaps 45 footers) in Stockholm and Copenhagen this past summer. They had two rear axles. Are the NABI buses going to be 2 or 3 axle buses?
I've seen the blueprint for the 45' Low Floor and if I remember correctly it was a two axle bus, BUT the 45' Cruiser will most likely be three axle.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
What with the snow and all and considering the fact that there were hardly any articulated busses in NYC 5 years ago, I pose this question. Is it possible for an articulated bus to "jack knife" like a tractor trailer does when it skids?
Peace,
ANDEE
It's possible. Articulated coaches have an anti-jack knife table installed at the articulation joint but that is only to help keep it from doing so. It's not a 100% guarantee of prevention. If it bends, it can jack knife in the right situation (or wrong situation depending on how you look at it).
RDChilds
An artic dowh here jack-knifed not too long ago, so it is possible.
Yeah, same here in DC. Several years ago when we had a bad snowstorm, a MAN on Colesville Rd. jacknifed. I'd be nervous driving one of those in the ice and snow. Someone with the Baltimore MTA recently told me they pull all artics off the road in the snow and probably will never purchase anymore again.
Plus there is the added factor that the rear section is the power section (the section with the engine, transmission, and differential), and may want to go it's own way. What you have here is the push-pull train concept in a bus, but there are no rails to guide it, so the bus driver must be extra skilled when driving an articulated.
Plus there is the added factor that the rear section is the power section (the section with the engine, transmission, and differential), and may want to go it's own way.
True unless your dealing with a M-A-N articulated where the trailer just tags along for the ride. Regardless of either situation, the back end of an artic can go out from the driver, especially on icy roads.
RDChilds
this should definitely be interesting. also how will their low floor new flyer fare. it looks like a red alert is a definite possibility.
I am so lucky that I go promated when I did. I would have been Run 1 on the B16, it starts at 4:17am and get on line at 4:35am. I would have had a Low Floor, I would have guest that by my second trip it would have be bad. These buses have trackion controll and ABS bakes so they might have be some what good. Just they would have been pushing the snow down as they go over it.
Robert
Wouldn't the diesels and Orions be used more extensively today instead of the C40LF's being that those particular buses have been thru this hell outside before (especially the 96 blizzard)
At Gleason, I don't think there are enough diesel buses to cover the service requirements.
That right,Gleason only have 40 or so diesels avable.
Robert
In January of '99, Chicago was walloped by a blizzard which left 18 inches in its wake. The CTA has been operating 65 New Flyer DLF40s since mid-'95. If my memory serves me, there were no major problems with them, even at the peak of the storm. However, the City of Chicago did a pretty decent job of keeping the major arteries plowed.
Wonder how many of these low floor busses got stuck in the snow in Brooklyn today. Saw one bus at Kings Plaza stuck in the snow and needed a tow truck to get out. Anyone else see something similar?
Shaun
It's got to be hard getting a bus out of Kings Plaza in this weather. The traffic down there no matter what the conditions is always bad, with the U-turn and everything. And then cars park in some of the bus stops and the buses are stuck there for another 5-10 minutes. I remember standing one bus stop from Kings Plz and I saw a bus start its left turn signal pulling out. It must've been a half hour before that bus got to my stop. The only time it is good is when they have a traffic guard there. Must have been a mess.
As of this hour all NJT bus service is cancelled as well as westchester county Bee Line
Peace,
ANDEE
i saw it on the news during the snowstorm today. the reporter said the bus was attepting to pick up passengers and got stuck. seemed like it hit the shelter. anyone hurt? is the bus in good shape?
Probably a Cummins Engined Bus. Hope it's not a 2000 Orion. Other than that-probably no injuries.
N20#329Gary
New 4 just sayed that the TA are having trouble with Artics in Brooklyn getting stuck in the snow. I geust that they might have ment the TA are having trouble with them in the Bronxs, unless the TA just started runing them in Brooklyn today.
robert
Does NYCT have cold weather plans for buses like they do for subways. Can someone post a summary
See message #24036. Re: Red,Yellow and Blue Alerts.
I was watching the 6PM news on Boston's WBZ Channel 4. They had a live report from NYC where the reporter mentioned that the NYCTA buses had a tough time today,with over 100 buses stuck on various streets.They show a brief clip of an RTS trudging along in the snow.
Up here in MA, the MBTA's buses are all running,no major problems I am aware of.The snow turned to rain in Boston and areas south of the city.Worcester Regional Transit Authority is still running as of 6PM,heavy snowfall there.Lowell Regional Transit Authority (my hometown) made it through it's service day without any problems,only 1 route (1 Christian Hill) went to a snow route diversion,and that was only for the fianl trip of the day at 5:05PM. The Merrimack Valley Regional Transit Authority put all it's routes on snow route detour at 2:30PM.No problems other than sliding and running a few minutes down on some routes.
Mark Watson
Picking a run that works the M31 in the AM's and the M57 in the PM's means spending a great deal of time on 57th Street. As most of you know 57th Street besides being a traffic nightmare is also a bus fan's paradise. You practically get to see every type of bus that the TA/OA, Private Lines, Ferry Buses and Tour Companies have to offer. In addition when doing the M31 on York Avenue I get to observe 126th Street and MaBSTOA Buses. As a way to relieve the boredom of trudging through the heavy traffic on both 57th Street and York Avenue and to keep from choking the living shit out of some of the annoying people that ride my bus, I've taken to observing and rating the condition of the buses that I encounter. These ratings are purely subjective and are based solely on my observations from behind the wheel. I've broken my ratings down into 5 categories; Excellent, Good, Fair, Marginal, and Poor. The following are my ratings:
TA SURFACE MANHATTAN DIVISION
DEPOT-126th Street BUSES OBSERVED-Various RTS and 2 New Flyer Articulateds. RATINGS: RTS-FAIR New Flyer-GOOD
My own depot which used to have some of the best maintenance has really hit the skids. An influx of decrepit Nimco ready RTS's from MaBSTOA hasn't helped matters. The articulateds are still relatively new and thus are still in good shape.
TA SURFACE STATEN ISLAND DIVISION
DEPOT-Castleton & Yukon BUSES OBSERVED-MCI Express Coaches and an occasional Orion Express Coach. RATINGS: MCI-MARGINAL Orion-FAIR
I find it a shame that the $370,000 MCI's are being slowly run into the ground. I've observed many buses with non working brake, tail and marker lights. Some have non working destination signs and body damage. The Orions are shabby at best. I don't mean to be harsh on Staten Island since I rarely go there and am not familiar with the condition of the buses that run in local service on the island. However if their express buses are any indication then they have some serious maintenance deficiencies.
TA SURFACE QUEENS DIVISION
DEPOT-Casey Stengel, Queens Village & Jamaica BUSES OBSERVED-RTS & Orion Express Coaches. RATINGS: RTS-GOOD Orion-GOOD
All of the Queens Division buses I've observed look good with no body damage and all lights and destination signs operational
TA SURFACE BROOKLYN DIVISION
DEPOT-Ulmer Park BUSES OBSERVED-RTS Express Coaches & MCI Express Coaches. RATINGS: RTS-GOOD MCI-EXCELLENT
I started my driving career at Ulmer Park and remember when they're buses were pure garbage. It seems they've improved greatly since I was there in 1990-91. The RTS's look good with no body damage and have all lights and destination signs operational. The MCI's are brand spanking new and therefore are still in excellent shape.
MaBSTOA Divison 1 (Manhattan)
DEPOT-M.J. Quill BUSES OBSERVED-Various RTS and New Flyer Articulateds. RATINGS: RTS-GOOD New Flyer-FAIR
Quills RTS's always look good and have all lights and destination signs operational. The artics which were heavily abused in the Bronx and received new paint jobs before being put into service in Manhattan are starting to look shabby again. In addition drivers on the M86 have told me that the artics are becoming troublesome and that Quill's maintenance personnel have to scramble to get enough ready to meet service.
DEPOT-Manhattanville BUSES OBSERVED-Various RTS and Orion Hybrids RATINGS: RTS-GOOD Orion Hybrids-GOOD
Manhattanville's RTS's look good and have all lights and destinantion signs operational. The Orion Hybrids still look good after two years in service.
DEPOT-Hudson Pier BUSES OBSERVED-Various RTS's RATINGS:RTS-MARGINAL
The pier has always had some of the worst maintenance in the bus system. Their RTS's continue to look really shabby with many belching thick clouds of black exhaust. Many have non-working lights and destination signs.
MaBSTOA Division 2 (Bronx) Buses observed run on routes in Manhattan
DEPOT-Amsterdam BUSES OBSERVED-ORION V's RATINGS:ORION V's-GOOD
Amsterdam's Orion's look good and have all lights and destination signs operational.
DEPOT-Mother Clara Hale BUSES OBSERVED-ORION V's RATINGS:ORION V's-GOOD
MCH's Orions look good and have all lights and destination signs operational.
PRIVATE LINES
COMPANY-Command BUSES OBSERVED-ORION V CNG, MCI Classic Suburbans, RTS CNG RATINGS:Orion V's-GOOD MCI's-FAIR RTS-GOOD
Command seems to have improved their maintenance. The Orions and RTS's look good and have all lights and destination signs operational. The MCI Suburbans look really shabby.
COMPANY-Green Bus Lines BUSES OBSERVED-Orion V's, MCI Classic Suburbans RATINGS:Orion V's-FAIR MCI's-FAIR
GBL's Orions are notorious for having non-working destination signs and lights. The MCI Suburbans look shabby.
COMPANY-Jamaica Bus Lines BUSES OBSERVED-RTS & MCI Classic Suburbans RATINGS:RTS-EXCELLENT MCI's-EXCELLENT
Jamaica Bus earns high marks for having buses that are always sparkling clean with all lights and destination signs operational.
COMPANY-Liberty Lines BUSES OBSERVED-MCI Classic Suburbans & MCI 102-A2 Cruisers(operating under Westchester Bee Line). RATINGS:MCI Classic Suburban-GOOD MCI 102-A2 Cruisers-GOOD
Liberty Lines buses look good and have all lights and destination signs operational.
COMPANY-New York Bus Service BUSES OBSERVED-MCI Classic Suburbans & GMC 5307A Suburban Fishbowls. RATINGS:MCI's-EXCELLENT Fishbowls-EXCELLENT
NYBS like Jamaica Bus earns high marks for having buses that are sparkling clean with all lights and destination signs operational. Special kudos to NYBS for keeping the classic Fishbowls in such great shape after 20 years of service.
COMPANY-Queens Surface Corporation BUSES OBSERVED-ORION V CNG, MCI Classic Suburban & RTS RATINGS:Orion V's-GOOD MCI's-FAIR RTS-FAIR
QSC's Orions look good and have all lights and destination signs operational. The MCI's and RTS's look shabby.
COMPANY-Triboro Coach Corporation BUSES OBSERVED-Orion V CNG & MCI Classic Suburbans. RATINGS:ORION V's-MARGINAL MCI's-GOOD
TCC seems bent on running their Orion V CNG's into the ground. I've observed many with non-working lights and destination signs plus body damage. In some cases where the body damage was repaired TCC didn't bother to repaint the area and just left the gray primer visible. The MCI's look good especially in the new paint scheme and have all lights and destination signs operational.
TOUR BUS COMPANIES
COMPANY-Gateway Tours/New York Double Decker Tours BUSES OBSERVED-Bristol Lodekka FLF6, Bristol VRT-SL3-6LXB & Neoplan Double-Deckers. RATINGS:Lodekka-GOOD VRT's-GOOD Neoplans-GOOD
Gateway which is the smallest of the tour bus companies does a good job of maintaining their fleet. Special kudos to them for keeping the Lodekkas in such good shape. These buses were built in 1962!
COMPANY-Gray Lines BUSES OBSERVED-Bristol VRT-SL2-6LXB & SL3-6LXB, Leyland Olympian & Various MCI Coaches. RATINGS:VRT's-FAIR Olympians-FAIR MCI's-FAIR
Gray Lines tour fleet is generally in shabby condition. Minimal maintenance is being performed on their British buses since in 2001 they will be receiving 30 brand new Dennis Trident double decker buses.
COMPANY-New York Apple Tours BUSES OBSERVED- Bristol VRT-SL3-6LXB.
RATINGS:VRT's-FAIR
Troubled NYAT has currently suspended their operations due to an order from a New York State Appeals Court. Their buses have generally been pretty shabby.
NEW JERSEY FERRY BUSES
COMPANY-New York Waterway Ferries BUSES OBSERVED-Thomas MVP SAF-T-Liners & Amtran RE's. RATINGS-Thomas-GOOD Amtran-GOOD
NYWWF generally does a good job in maintaining their fleet.
Well there you have it. I'm sure there will be a lot of disagreement and discussion but hey that's what Bus Talk is all about. Happy New Year to all Bus Talk contributors and their families.
Isn't it ironic that the suburban Orion V's that run out of QV & CS were formerly out of YUK & CAS and that those buses look and run better now than when they did at their former depots.
If you saw any Triboro Coach RTS' in Manhattan, you'd classify them as "rolling scrap". In fact, I don't think they could make it into and out of Manhattan without a tow truck.
Thats Rolling Ton of Scrap
"COMPANY-Queens Surface Corporation BUSES OBSERVED-ORION V CNG, MCI Classic Suburban & RTS RATINGS:Orion V's-GOOD MCI's-FAIR RTS-FAIR
QSC's Orions look good and have all lights and destination signs operational. The MCI's and RTS's
look shabby."
Sorry have to disagree with the latter two comments ...
- MCIs we are spending serious money on them ... they are going into the shop one at a time for a couple of weeks. Insides are torn out & in general a lot of work being done.
- RTS ... they could look a little better, but they aren't "shabby" ... at least the ones I've been on.
I still don't understand why nycDOT didn't "me too" on the TA MCI order of new coaches ... they look real nice.
Mr t__:^)
I'm glad to hear that QSC is rehabbing their MCI's. I look forward to seeing the finished product.
Buses 917 929 934 and 951 are examples of the buses that were just rehabbed. Be on the lookout for them.
QM1#929Gary
That was pretty good. I pretty much agree with you from what I remember. 57th Street is perhaps the best place for busspotting. I used to stand at 57th & 5th or 57th and Madison quite often.
Wayne
Is impossible with LI Bus today. When the snow let up around 5pm I walked on over to Glen Cove ave, and waited for an N21 there. It never came, in fact, I didn't see many buses at all. The only peculiar thing was that I saw an N27 coming straight up the hill on Glen Cove ave from Glen Cove, going to Hempstead. It was a Cummins and according the schedule, it was ON TIME! Only two people on board.
The 5:32pm N21 never came though, I waited till 6pm and just gave up. Never saw it Glen Cove bound either. Had to get chinese food locally at Bamboo Cove. Actually they appear to be under new ownership and the food was pretty good. Some new girls there too. :-)
The walk to and from Glen Cove ave was difficult, the road wasn't plowed well. There were a few cars driving by, but it seems they all ignored me (sped and of course do not offer a ride). Yup Sea Cliff ave was hard to walk down, a 10 minute walk took 20.
Never heard any LIRR DE horns, so I doubt there was any OB LIRR service.
Didn't see any buses going down Glen ave. Service must have been suspended on the N21, probably they had a few buses going between Roslyn and Flushing. Who knows?
Heard NJT buses were suspended, and the malls in NJ were probably closed. Anyone for Garden State Plaza today?
So, what did all of you do today?
Shoveled snow & went for some chinese at lunch.Didn't see to many running on the q56 ,the J train (I know its the wrong site)running at a crawl and watching a q11 get stuck in snow drift across from my house.
Went in and out of my house today. Shoveled some snow-let my dog play in the snow-wiped the foot of snow off of the car and spotted 2 QSC Buses-both on the Q104. The first bus I observed was 417. It seemed that the bus was struggling to move. The tanks were practiaclly covered with snow and the bus looked dirty. Only about 5 people on the bus-and running on time. The second bus was 464. A complete replicate of 417 except that 464 was the last Q104 bus-and surprisingly-he was on time with just 2 people aboard. Usually the driver runs 20-30 minutes late EVERY DAY! It's the 1st test for these CNG Orions in this type of weather-last year they were very lucky.
Q104#417Gary
PS Happy 2001 to ALL from the TransitWorld Staff!!!
www.transitworld.org
Heard on the Channel 2 news that buses in NYC are getting stuck alot, so LI isn't alone with their problems. So why don't they make buses with 4 wheel drive??
Looks like trains did alot better than buses in this storm.
Because it's much too expensive (build, maintain, and operate) for the amount of good it will do.
-Hank
So what buses do best in snow, which ones are the worst?
How do the Orions and RTS's fare? Saw an 8000 series RTS bus on Ch.2 news, poor thing was stuck in the snow.
Betcha the Orions were having even more problems. Boxy design and snow usually don't get along too well.
Not one Flxible in NJ failed today!!!!!!!! Need I Say More!!!!!!! NJT's buses were pulled off the road eventually but before that point, The only buses that got stuck were out NovaBUS RTSs.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
>>>The only buses that got stuck were out NovaBUS RTSs.<<<
You all must have the worst RTS buses ever built. Rushed orders and Cummins motors do not mix. I'm not surprised about the Flxibles though. Any Flx built after 1983 is almost as solid as a good RTS bus.
Do you guys think I was joking when I said "Don't Drive a Nova in the Snow". They are absolutely the worst. I'm sure the Orions are much better. I very rarely see them stuck. The older RTS's are pretty good also, but the Novas, forget it!
BIG AL
Right on Trevor! On channel 4 this morning, I saw a NJT Flxible on Route 3 in NJ-the # was 3536?! It seemed like she was doing just fine in this weather-till they shut the system down.
NJT#3536Gary
Saw the same on News Ch 4; it was NJT Flx# 3538.
I'm not sure I would blame the type of bus so much as the lack of experience most drivers have with driving in a foot of snow. Most busses I saw stuck today were in bus stops - busses pulling all the way into them and not being able to get out. New Yorkers aren't used to seeing this much snow too often. I think the last time we had this much snow at one time was the Blizzard of 1996 - and that storm shut the entire system down.
I know upstate, the CENTRO system in Syracuse uses ORIONS and they do just fine in the snow. And they get a LOT more snow than we do. Maybe the DOT just knows how to plow the roads better there?!?
Shaun
>>>Boxy design and snow usually don't get along too well.<<<
Our (SEPTA's) Neoplans run excellent in snow. When we still had the RTS's, they tend to get stuck in snow more often than The Neoplans, so that blows that theory. If anything, what drivetrain you have will determine snowworthyness (if that is a word) or not.
I was watching the 6PM news on Boston's WBZ Channel 4. They had a live report from NYC where the reporter mentioned that the NYCTA buses had a tough time today,with over 100 buses stuck on various streets.They show a brief clip of an RTS trudging along in the snow.
Up here in MA, the MBTA's buses are all running,no major problems I am aware of.The snow turned to rain in Boston and areas south of the city.Worcester Regional Transit Authority is still running as of 6PM,heavy snowfall there.Lowell Regional Transit Authority (my hometown) made it through it's service day without any problems,only 1 route (1 Christian Hill) went to a snow route diversion,and that was only for the fianl trip of the day at 5:05PM. The Merrimack Valley Regional Transit Authority put all it's routes on snow route detour at 2:30PM.No problems other than sliding and running a few minutes down on some routes.
Mark Watson
DONT ASK FOR LINKS!!!
http://www.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/subtalk.cgi?read=181393-ACELA
http://www.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/subtalk.cgi?read=181398-Boston
http://www.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/subtalk.cgi?read=181390-NYC
Pictures to be posted on OTP in the near future. I will post poll results soon, too.
Today, in Brooklyn, the B1,B4 and B68 were suspended most of the day. (even when they were not running, people were STILL WAITING).About 7pm or so, saw a B1 bus going towards bay ridge and saw another bus on 86th st. did they start running late(the bus to bay ridge was #9093 run 028)-and what plans do they have for tomorrow?
I'm upset the b68 did not run. it's a snow emergency street. Even Command route B100 was running (saw #368 on it). what gives?
When I went to the store yesterday evening, the B20 and B83 were doing fine on Penn/Granville Payne Ave.
B20#9147Mike
B83#5239Mike