Does anyone know anything about the impacts that bus "bulbs" (aka "bumpouts" aka "bus boarders" -- curbs that are extended into the street to allow buses to load and unload without merging) have on overall traffic operations?
According to the latest Transitalk bus roster, PA1767 is out of service and 1757 is scrapped. Too bad. All the Orions have arrived at QV as well it seems. 1740, 1742, and 1745 are lucky to have left.
It's funny because 1767 was just at ENY less than two weeks ago. Oh well, at least PA1746 is still aound, but I feel she only has another two weeks at the most.
On a side note, PA1826 is still in service at MJQ. How can it take so long to replace one old express bus?
TA doesn't stand for common sense in more ways than one.
I saw PA1767 yesterday on the X68. She's still in service along with 1751 and 1852. 1757 was scrapped. 1819 I still see doing very spotty Express service-unless she got scrapped too. 1740, 1746, 1747, 1752 and 1755 see Express Service out of Jamaica still but that won't be for too much longer as the Novas go into service from their new paintjobs from ENY. Also, this is my last post as R36Gary. As of later on, I will have a brand new name. This name will be retired, just like the RedBirds will be soon. Be on the lookout.
The Transitalk roster only lists, 1740, 1742, 1745, 1746, 1747, 1752, 1755, 1760, 1761, 1778, 1846(?) and 1855 in service.
Oh well, it's probably just the fortelling of things to come.
I believe that 1855 has been scrapped and I haven't seen 1778 in a long time (I think its dead). 1760, 1761 and 1846 still see very limited action at Ulmer Park in the mornings only.
Any bets on what bus will be the last 1982 running???
Shaun
Good idea...lets have a BT contest. Lets see who can guess what will be the last 1982 bus running. My guess would be JAM's 1844 which is in great condition. This bus also happens to be an ex-Ulmer Park coach.
Mark
That would be the first one to go. TA's have a thing about scrapping the good stuff.
In Houston, RTS 2028 had just been rehabbed less than two years ago and now it's on the auction block. Go figure.
I say it'll be 1746 or 1767.
I think it'll be 1755. She's been a workhorse for Jamaica Depot. She's got Bronx style numbers in the rear. I hope it's her.
X63#1755Gary
Here she is at Queens Center:
As an X68 rider, I'll hedge my bets on 1767 or 1819.
oh hell.........1746
Very True. I always loved 1834 out of UP - got that bus every day! It ran great. Always thought that would be the last bus to go but they scrapped it a few months ago.
I have to agree with Q5Merrick and go with 1844. She has always been an excellent bus, going back to its days here at Ulmer Park.
Shaun
I say 1761 which I saw the day of the Yankees Day Parade and she looked pretty damn good!
Trevor Logan
1760 and 1761 were QV Buses at 1 time. I remember getting 1760 on the Q46 a lot. She's a good unit. 1751 is in great shape too.
I'll do the last 1982 buses at each depot: QV: 1751, JAM: 1755, UP: 1760, CS: 1742. I still think the last 1 standing will be 1755 for some reason.
X63#1755Gary
I say 3099.
x27#3099Mike
You say 1982: Ill go out on a limb and say 1778.
x28#1778Mike
Being a Stengelite, I would have to vote on one of the old Stengel fleet. 1742 would be my vote. Otherwise, 1826 out of Quill.
1742 was working on the 74 today.. didnt look too bad on the outside
Go 1742!!
You still have some life in ya!
flx7595
i change my vote to 1742 or 1745.
for some reason i said 1746 the other day.
You forgot #3099. Still operating out of Ulmer Park
I think it is going to be 1742.She started many moons ago at CS(nee FLU).And she returned to CS to die(Plus they can still use her on the X32 or 51 or use her for Rush Hour extra on the local routes.
You'll probably see a few more 17&1800 RTS's out of QV. A bunch of the operators are writing up the ex-Castleton Orions for everything they can find to bring them up to "Queens Village Standards"
Yesterday, I got Orion V 2125 on the T2. The sign still read T2 FRIENDSHIP HEIGHTS but the automated announcement when the door opened saied "Welcome aboard route T2 destanation, Rockville Station." The interior sign was off. While waiting for the driver to make it so the farebox would accept my ripped, folded dollar bill, he changed the sign to ROCKVILLE STATION. How does the announcement know to change if the sign hasn't?
I've always wondered how those things are calibrated to know what stops they are coming to. It is probably done by the odometer, in that if Stop A is .25 miles away, then it knows when the bus has traveled .25 miles and makes the announcement. I'm guessing that if the bus has to detour at any time, that thing becomes useless.
In your case, I'm not sure if it is programmed to switch once it reaches the end of the line or not since the bus could go out of service once it reaches the end. I've also been on an Orion V thirty footer that said 38B Not In Service because the driver couldn't figure out how to work the sign, but the announcement would say "38B Farragut Square". I guess they are independent somehow.
Since when does the 38B use 30 footers? I've had that happen on the 34 where it said 34 NOT IN SERVICE and it did the announcements correctly when the doors opened and for the stops.
A couple of times a 30 footer popped up on there. I've been on it a few times on Saturdays and twice during the week, once going into DC in the AM rush. It didn't really get that croweded surprisingly. Normally they use a combination of 35 or 40 ft. buses.
They actually operate using the global positioning system (GPS) satellite, I think. You'll notice that if a so-equipped bus does detour, the sign either blanks (if the detoured streets' coordinates are not linked to a street name on its internal chip) or reads the correct street name from another route (if it is).
You can see how the odometer method would quickly become useless, even if the driver did stick to the adhered route: lane changes, turn radii, etc. would quickly knock the mileage count out of whack.
Chris
I just read in the NYCT Committee Agenda for October 2000 & on p.89, it explanis that the NYCDOT has asked that NYCT assist in the procurement of six MCI45-foot diesel commuter coaches to be operated by its franchisee NY Bus service & has committed to provide NYCT with $2.5 million isn state transit discreationary funds for this purpose.
Does anyone have any information on this matter & if so, please post it on bustalk.
Actually it's suppose to be 4 MCI D4500 for New York Bus Service
Trevor
Is MTA plannig to buy CNG MCIs?
Maybe a Triboro or Command CNG wouldnt that look HOT!
Blue
Nope, because MCI has decided not to make a production MCI D Series CNG Cruiser. The NJT units are custom-made units and one of a kind units. Until there is a "Real" demand for the CNG Cruiser, MCI will not have it on it's roster as a production model.
Trevor Logan
A few friends and I went out to Newark Airport to view the buses in operation with the monorail shut down for 4-6 months. There is a very interesting variety of equipment. Academy (and affiliates) and Red & Tan Tours seem to be sharing most of the Monorail Substitute operations. Red & Tan has mostly ex-NYC Grumman/Flxibles in operation (earlier posts talked about the renumbering of some of these), plus a few of the low-floor New Flyers supplied by the Port Authority (in a new Newark Airport paint scheme). Academy and Tri-City have a combination of ex-NYC RTS's, 40 foot RTS's from elsewhere (perhaps former NYCDOT buses?), 35 foot RTS's, some of which appear to be ex-Hertz buses, and 30 foot Gilligs that appear to be ex-Hertz. There were also a few of Academy's new state RTS's in the low 1000 series in service. Red & Tan also has the WMATA reject Orion V's in the 1000 and 4000 series on many of the employee shuttles and on the Lot G buses; some have a "2" in front of them, per the Coach USA numbering system. You can ride whatever you want, and it's free! (Cheapest way to the Airport from the City is the PATH train to Newark for $1.00 and the #62 bus from Penn Station to the Airport for $1.00)
Visited this system today - another place where busfans can ride a variety of equipment for free. As with my previous visit, the backbone of the fleet (operated by an affiliate of Suburban) are 1998 RTS's in the 600 series and 1999 state RTS's in the 1000 series. Route EE uses articulateds: gone are most (but not all) of the Neoplan artics, and in their place are a variety of 2nd hand MAN artics (we think some of them may be from World Transportation in Orlando). All of the 2000 series Grumman Flxibles seem to be gone, but there are a few 1989 Flxibles in the 3200 series on the Busch and Livingston campus routes. Alas, I did not see the low-floor Nova (former NYC Bus #995), which was rumored to be there.
The RTS's in the 600 series had an interesting characteristic I haven't seen much before - side destination signs on the driver's side as well as on the passenger side. Makes it easier to see what route the bus is if you're approaching it from across the street.
Or it makes it easier to see which bus you missed 'cause you were NOT at the bus stop!! :-)
I forget where else I've seen this -- oh, wait, it's San Jose, CA Valley Transit Authority. One of their Flxible Metro orders came this way, and I'm gonna guess the subsequent Gillig Phantom orders came this way too.
Hey Sid,
That "off side" route sign always seemed a sensible thing and was a
feature of Transbus for all future bus orders. Why was that idea ever droped?
The system in New Brunswick is great. I visited there again on vacation a few weeks ago and there were a few older Grumman Flx's, I assume ex NYC buses, as usual. Sorry to hear that they, too, may be gone.
Joe C
Actually, I remembered after my post that we did see one Flxible that, from a distance, looked like a 2000 series. There were also 2 Flxibles with 3 digit numbers - one was 355 and the other may have been 296. I believe 355 may have been with Community Coach at one time and may have come from somewhere on the West coast. Best regards, Joe.
Yes 995 which was the areas demo was returned to NovaBUS ORTECH a short while following the Rutgers demoing. Rutgers did not like this bus. NJT was gonna look at it too BUT will not because NJT is not pro-low floor.
995 is now the sole property of NovaBUS and will be used as a demo for modifications and upgrades. 995 when built was a NovaBUS LFS Generation I, sent to the TA, then was sent back to NovaBUS and upgraded to a Generation II. After it's stint at NYCMTA, 995 was returned to NovaBUS in Schenectady, then sent down to a lot in Sayerville, NJ which houses some Rutgers bus. 995 was given the red stripe. About two weeks later, I talked to someone at NovaBUS and they had told me that NovaBUS/ORTECH took 995 back. And it's now in Canada.
Trevor Logan
Trevor Logan
Do you have to be a Rutgers student or can anybody ride those buses?
Anyone can ride the system. I've never seen anyone checking or showing any kind of pass or i.d.
similar exists in Amherst Massachusetts
This bus is in service. Saw her on the B46 on Saturday. I mentioned this because both the TT and UTC bus rosters does not have her listed.
B46#4116MikeLimited
It appears that 130-140 are now in CS. have not seen 137, but have seen all the others. Very frequently used now on theh Q74. At least two of the 5 AM rush buses are using them.
Rode 139 Friday Q74. Had 132 Monday-Q74 saw 110 there also. Tuesday Saw 133 on Q74 in AM and Q32 in the PM. I wonder what will be there tomorrow? I'll let you all know.
The madness continues! 136 was on the Q32 this afternoon around 1PM. As if CS needed any more express coaches.
I have a picture of 136 at CS with the Yukon decals still on it!
Saw #137 Idling at 9pm on Roosevelt/Main. I believe it gets used for the Q14 route late nights. Express coaches are a favorite late night delight on the Q26 and Q14.
I've seen Suburban Orions on the Q13, Q14, Q26, Q27, Q32, Q48 and Q74.
Is CS getting anymore Orions from Yukon or is that it? I heard 118-132 were supposed to go to QV, not 611-630. But 611-630 most are in service at QV. Saw 617 this morning at 108 St and HH Expwy. And 115-117 were supposed to go to CS, no?! Where are they?
you mean these buses are being put on local lines. at yukon they were only on expresses another slap in the face of hanley who wanted these buses used for south shore services.
I've seen the Ex-Yukon express Orions in Flushing. From what it sounds like they use the older 6V-92 engine. Why do they put express buses on local lines? The high seats and layout make it more difficult to move around the bus.
Maybe there is nothing stopping the operator from taking one of these buses out on a run locally.
I've ridden 168. 170 and 172 out of Stengel on the Q13 and Q28 (One Saturday, 5 express buses were on the local route.
101, 102 105 and 113 all have been on the Q13/Q14. 104 once did duty on the Q15.
The passengers seem to enjoy the ride, even with the cramped quarters.
flx7595
They try to keep them away from school kids especially so you will never see them on the 44/20 or the 76 (except maybe saturday).
They put them on runs that are pull in/pull out so they wont be out very long if not all day as is the case on the 44/20.
When they had just 101-114, they used these on locals ONLY if they couldnt make service with hard seaters. Now they have like 25 express coaches so its obvious you will see them more on the locals.
Any chance the TA might retrofit those ORIONS with local bus seating sometime in the future?? I know from experience that it is very difficult to get down those isles in the express busses, especially with a standing load. Loading and unloading can take longer.
My question is why not send some of these busses to MJQ in the interim to provide Manhattan Express riders with newer busses finally?
i would not have said what i did if the orions had been sent to jamaica to replace 1982 buses. but sending them to cs to put on local routes is wrong and is as i said a slap in the face to islanders who need south shore service. these people commute for 2 hours daily on unreliable private carriers.
Agreed, those busses should be used to replace the old RTS Expresses first. However, do you believe that even if those busses were still on SI, the TA implement the service, This has been an ongoing discussion for years but still nothing has been done about it,
What's the latest situation - does anyone know for sure??
Shaun
Loading shouldn't be much of a problem. As you know most Queens routes are feeders to and from the subway. The Q14, Q26 and Q74 are very light lines. People get on at the subway and get off along the line. There is very little moving around of passengers along those lines.
Now the Q32 is obviously another story...
Mark
Well I have been on a "Express" Orion on a local route (Q12) only once. It was very comfortable, well those seats are heaven compared to usual hard seats.
But it took longer to pick up and drop off, and somebody was just leaving via the rear and the driver started to go, people yelled and he stopped. It's harder for the driver to see passengers in the rear doorwell because of the high seats.
it appears nyct has again changed its plans. 2747-2749 have arrived at yukon and are being prepped for service. if anyone has the latest assignment please post.
Does anyone have any information on NYCT 2001 MCI update that Hudson posted on Thursday.
i guess not follo but yukon is left with 118-120,122 and 127. these five orions are all out of service. 2753 arrived yesterday.
Where's 125? Wasn't she in a fire?
being fixed at eny cmf.
Don't you think that if someone knew, they'd have posted it under the original thread?
You don't use that toaster on your head much, huh?
-Hank
how quick the politicians forget. transit has no excuses having received 46 mci buses. but rather than service the south shore of staten island nyct sends its orion fleet to casey stengel to be used as local buses. the people of staten island should be up in arms.
What are you fussing about? Here, there's always a variety of express equipment on the local routes. I've seen the Vikings do local service and no one went to local politicians "up in arms."
Are you implying that the people of Queens should not even get these hand me down Orions of all things as a treat to spruce up some of the local lines? Even though you SI people have MCIs and such. Well, why don't you give up 20 MCIs and have them return your Orions, I'm pretty sure they would never put those buses in local service. But then, we all know why MCIs could never get to Queens, despite the fact they can't even fit into the depots there. I'm a bit young, but I kinda know how the world in general works. Look at the facts...
SI is getting a number of MCI's to add to the ones they already have while Queens is getting some second hand Orions, 20 year old rehabs, and 1985 buses to replace the 17xx and 18xx buses they have running, now and you're complaining because they sent about 20 Orions to Queens and NOT using them in express service!?
Well, you call up those politicians and you take up arms and storm Queens demanding your precious Orions be used right or not at all! How dare they even think of giving a little second hand comfort to the rift-faff who can't pay that oh so exclusive three dollar fare. My god it's a travesty!
Question: When was the last time you rode an express bus to Staten Island? If you have recently you would know that the trip can take up to 2 hours. SI x-bus ridership has increased at a much faster rate than the TA can keep up with. Every bus i take no matter what time of the day is packed. SI is getting the new coaches because they can provide more seats than an Orion coach. Its not a matter of old vs new equipment or the type of people riding the bus. You wanna talk about the exclusive 3 dollar fare? First of all what choice do most people in SI have. Take the ferry? Easier said then done. How can u get to the ferry when your local bus runs every 40 minutes MON-FRI from 530 am to 7 pm. Please!..........You dont know how good you have it. Do you know how long that trip would take by bus to the ferry (unless you live near it)? WE DONT HAVE A TRAIN TO TAKE US TO MANHATTAN LIKE EVERY OTHER BOROUGH HAS! Lastly what do you mean by "you Staten Island People"? Dont go there. Trust me the commute to NYC form Staten Island is not fun especially when you have to do it on a daily basis. I am sure the Orions can provide sufficient service for Queens passangers (at least for now). Again its not a matter of what kind of people are receiving the service. You need to stop thinking that way.
I really have to back Kevin up on this one, The residents of the inner boroughs (Bronx, Manhattan, Queens, & Brooklyn) have it really good. SI is suffering bad in the Express category. I've experience this personally too. I've ridden the X19 to Arden Heights, wherein the trip was slated for like 50 some odd minutes and took very close to 2 hours.
Explain to me why the TA cannot have a rush hour X17 without it being packed with standees, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE MCIs ARE NOT TO CARRY STANDEES. Its called poor planning. Even with this new 100 MCI D4500 Cruiser order, I bet you the ride will still "suck" due to heavy loads and service, or lack there of. It seems the more buses the TA purchase, ridership doubles that of the bus order.
Love the TA, just need to get it right and I feel eventually they will.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
It seems that the TA has this notion that since the MCI is a bigger bus, they can fit more people on it and cut service (the same attitude being taken with the artics). For example, rhe TA is going to be having counters ride the x27, x28 and x29 next week - routes slated to recieve MCI's soon. Bet you they want to know where they can cut service and just put an MCI bus in place of 2 busses. Certainly speculation, but something I can see the TA doing.
As far as Express Busses on Local Service, I don't agree with it. You pay a $3 premium fare for a reason. Busses seem to get damaged faster on local routes and suffer more wear and tear. In addition, school kids tend to destroy the material on the seats by cutting them up. Then, the next day, you'll have people paying $3 to ride the same bus.
It just dosen't seem right. Express Busses should not be on local routes in ANY BOROUGH PERIOD.
Just my opinion,
Shaun
<<STANDEES. Its called poor planning. Even with this new 100 MCI D4500 Cruiser order, I bet you the ride will still "suck" due to heavy loads and service, or lack there of. It seems the more buses the TA purchase, ridership doubles that of the bus order.>>>
It is sensless for NYCT to use express coaches on local routes. As more MCI coahes arrive on S.I. the Orion coaches are being shifted to Queens. The Orions should be assigned exclusively to Queens express routes. As others have noted here much of the current Queens express equipment are RTS coaches on their last legs. NYCT has never been know for logical actions.
Well, I'm not from New York, so I don't really know much about this, especially about express routes. The companies i am familiar with, the WMATA and SEPTA, use every bus for both locals and expresses. However, from what I've heard from you guys, suppose NYCT is using those RTSs on their last legs on express routes because they might be able to hold out longer, rather than on local routes, since buses on local routes tend to suffer more wear and tear. Also, they ight use the Orions to make the system look more attractive for those new riders that may not commute that often. Also, NYCT is probably going to get new buses in recent years to replace those RTSs. Also, you have to remember that maybe the express routes overall may not be all that popular, and once they may get a lot of new buses, people may not use the express routes as much. Plus, if NYCT has so many express routes, well, I think it's time to start building a regional rail system.
Just a thought,
The Basman
The express buses in NYC are very popular. Better and more comfortable buses will mean more passengers which of course means more revenue.
Most of the express buses go where the subway doesn't while some "supplement" subway service. They also carry a better clientele which means far less riff-raff compared to the subway.
I use the express bus(QM1/1A-Queens Surface) whenever I travel to/from the city. Why? Because I always get a seat, even during the rush hour, the buses run every 3 minutes and it's a more comfortable ride.
I'd rather pay $3 for the bus than take the subway which I ride for free.
What are you smoking? The bigger buses are NOT reducing service, at least as far as SI x-bus service is concerned. It's basically just giving seats to 10 more people on a run that's STILL SRO. They need to add buses to many routes, and their previous excuse was a lack of buses. Now it'll be a lack of drivers.
Do I have to repost my little diatribe about phony bunching?
-Hank
Lack of MCI qualified drivers.
Got to have training for that ADA lift that I never saw used in revenue service. >>G<
Trevor and Kevin, I have to go against you guys. Its all a matter of dispersing the equipment (buses) fairly--for lack of a better term. I would be the first to agree that SI express ridership has been on the upswing for years. While Queens hasn't shown nearly as sharp an increase as SI, they too, have seen ridership levels jump to levels never before seen there. This is just what BT'ers like myself and BIG AL have been talking about. Weather or not you want to admit it, Queens Division is the step-child of NYCT. They operate the most 1982 coaches, the most 1984-85 express converts, and the LEAST 1993 and higher (Orions and Novas) coaches. Now that they have recently received some Orions, people have the nerve to bitch about it? First of all, those ex-CAS and YUK Orions that are now gracing QV and CS are GARBAGE!!!! They have been written up for all kinds of defects. Why do think QV is still operating their 1982's? For nostalgic reasons? NO. They're forced to run them because 616-630 have been run into the ground at CAS. At CS, you are seeing their new arrivals in local service, as opposed to ex-YUK's that have been there a few years now (101-114).
I'll say it again, Queens Division is the step child of NYCT, but you know what? Despite the fact that they have the oldest fleet in the city, they still have the best maintained fleet in the city. That is something that CS,JAM and QV maintainers take great pride in--sticking it to the rest of the city.
Mark
" Now that they have recently received some Orions, people have the nerve to bitch about it? First of all, those ex-CAS
and YUK Orions that are now gracing QV and CS are GARBAGE!!!!"
They do use the older, slower 6V-92 engines, which are dirty and really should be completely phased out.
Have 616 to 630 really been ran into the ground or are just victims of lousy maintance? Express coaches get nowhere near the mileage as their local counterparts. Maybe a trip in the AM, one on the PM. at most. I'm sure many times some of those puppies made a half trip and rested all day at Quill and went home in the PM rush. On rare occasions, particularly when they were the newest SI coaches, sure they would occasionally run all day and on the weekends, but again, nothing like the total mileage as on the locals.
I'll be the first to admit that the express coaches sent to Queens are garbage. Hopefully the 1993 Orions sent over will perform better after they get their Series 50 engines in them. As for the 1995 Orions ther is no excuse for their defects. I am aware that Queens Village and Jamaica have great mainteance. If it was up to me everyone would have new buses. Obviously there is a lesson to be learned here. The better you are the more people take advantage of you. If QV and Jam had poor maintenance then your 1982 rts wouldnt be around today. Again I have nothing against Queens but I will not hesitate to defend SI the same way everyone else is defending Queens.
Peace on BT,
Kevin
Kevin, you hit the nail on the head with the comment about 'the better you are the more people will take advantage of you'. If a Division can keep the buses on the road even in light of defects and just being plain worn out they usually end up with the hand me down units.
Simple economics here. Why have a bus broken and unable to be fixed quickly at Division A if Division B is able to get it back on the road in a short amount of time. I've seen it done in Pittsburgh in 75 when Ross Division had the worst garbage PAT had since they could get it running while the other Divisions couldn't. They literally towed in dead buses to Ross and drove off in the best of the Ross equipment and Ross had to repair the dead buses so the drivers could make schedule. New coaches came in and Ross received none of them since they were able to keep the old equipment running and make schedule.
It's a totally rediculous that things like this go on but they do and I agree, all Divisions should get new buses when they come in.
RDChilds
Don't forget that Staten Island express busses have to put a lot more mileage on each of its busses on average compared to Brooklyn and Queens express routes. This could explain why the coaches look like they are worn out.
This has to be some of the biggest crock of sh*t I've ever read. Do you know why Queens, particularly Jam & QV has the best maintainence in the system. I'll tell you. If our buses broke down with the same rate as the rest of the city, NYCTA would launch a major federal investigation into it. Foremans would be fired, supervisors written up, the whole nine yards because Queens didn't meet there expections, while the B.S. that goes on with maintainence in the other boroughs is ignored and the supervision over there knows they can get away with murder. Remember, step children always have stricter rules than the natural born children. Does it really suprise some of you that CS and QV are getting in garbage Orions. Oh please. T/A knows there garbage. That's why there sending them to Queens in the first place. Do you think they would send the top of the line Orions or MCI's to Queens? Keep dreaming. The other depots dogged those buses out and transit didn't give a damn. Now they have to go to Queens to be fixed up by our maintainence department. And if the buses fail to perform properly, guess who will be held accountable? QUEENS DIVISION!
BIG AL
Hello reread the post! No where in that post did i put down QV or Jamaica. I said I admit that QV and Jamaica have some of the best maintenance in the system. Since you have the best maintenance that is the reason why you are getting the garbage and also the reason why you still have 1982 RTS in service. So why would you say"This has to be some of the biggest crock of sh*t I've ever read" Whats that all about?
Peace,
Kevin
Actually, I should not have put my response under your message. I never said you were insulting Queens division. My response was just in general relation to this whole topic. I can't believe some people are crying that some Orions were sent to Queens away from S.I. while others are saying only the best buses should be sent to S.I. That is the big crock of sh*t I refer to. As I and Q5Merrick know, Queens has been jerked around the worst out of any borough. We are also more scrutinized than anybody else. We get the garbage and are supposed to deal with it. If we let our buses go to hell like the other boroughs there would be a federal investigation. "If the people in Queens write less letters than anybody else, so what, let them ride in worn out buses. Who cares. They pay the fare". That has always been T/A's motto. This has to change. Saying the MCI's are going to S.I. because of heavy lines is nonsense. The MCI's are not designed for standees so what's the difference. It's probably safer packing the people into an Orion that is designed for standees. If T/A was really concerned about the crowding, they would simply increase the service. End of story. The only reason why MCI's are in S.I. is because they are nicer and more comfortable buses. They wouldn't come to Queens even if we could facilitate them. So everyone needs to get off this kick that S.I. deserves the MCI's because that is the sh*t I refer to along with why the Orions are going to Queens period when they should stay in S.I. The new buses should be dispersed evenly thoughout the city along with all the garbage buses as well. It is only fair and practical.
BIG AL
I agree with this, even though I may not be in NY. It's only logical.
You know hat I say Al, keep the 1700's in serivce, bring a few out of storage and send them to SI! Then, and only then, will they feel your pain.
Thing is, those buses served Staten Island for the last 18 years. Also, until the 93 Orions arrived, Staten Island got all the 'dung heap' buses. We had the last of the 5000 and 6000 Blitz Fishbowls, last of the 7000 and 9000 Flxibles. In fact, if you saw the buses at the bus festival, many of them had placards that said they served their last days on Staten Island (out of Castleton).
Notice lately that the newest buses (other than the MCIs) are going to Manhattan and the Bronx (Brooklyn gets a walk, since they've got the only CNGs)?
-Hank
As this Queens/Staten Island debate rages on, let me throw something out there. Today as I type this, Yukon, Castleton and now Ulmer Park are utilizing MCI's on their express routes. Jamaica Depot, on the other hand, has used up another roll of duct tape to patch the seats on 1746, 1747, and the rest of the 1982 RTS's. Queens Village, somehow has received 10 year old 1995 Orions (yes I can add...I'm making a point about the abuse that 616-630 has taken in just FIVE short years in Castleton). I won't even mention the crap that Yukon sent Casey Stengel--they're so bad, I have yet to see any of the new arrivals (130-140) on the X51. And thats just the express coaches. As for the locals....something very strange has gotten lost in all of this:
EAST NEW YORK DEPOT HAS 125 (thats one hundred twenty-five...as in the street in Harlem) 1999 NOVAS--4945-5024, 5205-5249--WHILE QV HAS THE MOST 1985 BUSES IN NYC AND JAMAICA HAS THE MOST 1986 BUSES IN THE CITY!!! Chew on that for a while.
Mark
Duct tape on seats? You're joking right?
Not only is he not kidding, but Queens maintenance does make a point to at least try to get tape that matches the cracked vinyl of the seats. This isn't just a Jamaica phenomenon, but also at Queens Village. You guys thought we were kidding when we listed the disparity between the boroughs.
Furthermore, that 10 year old 1995 Orion statement isn't so far from the truth. The Orions that were received at Queens Village from Castleton are being diligently worked on by the staff at QV to correct the (for lack of a better word) abuse they had. Interiors that are dirty and scratched up are the first thing to greet you in the morning. You also hope that this "new" Orion doesn't decide to stall out somewhere on the Long Island Expressway. If it indeed does stay on, you get to endure the harshest shifting and hunting the transmission can dole out. When you slowly get into Manhattan, you can almost read the lips of the MCI passengers saying "wow, that's who got our old P.O.S.".
The Orions do not have vinyl seats. Having ridden those buses in recent history, the windows were scratched on the exterior, which is due to a storage problem at Castleton. They were dirty, absolutely; but no more dirty than any other bus in service where the driver doesn't enforce the no eating/drinking rules. And I have never been on a bus that broke down.
-Hank
My tape patch commentary was in response to the inquiry that duct tape is used to patch up the vinyl seats of the pre-Nova RTS express coaches.
Sorry to say, but at least six (6) of the Orions I have been on have had scratched windows on the *inside*. How do I know? The finger nail test never fails! The past two mornings I've been on 617 and 619. I was on these coaches when they first arrived at QV, but now they sport the optional equipment of *roach traps*! The TA signs are right, bugs hate clean buses; that's why they're on these Orions.
Breakdowns: Personally, 616 crapped out on me the first morning it was put into service. It's amazing how much grovelling a TA driver will do on the side of the LIE to his counterparts at GBL, Triboro, Jamaica and Queens Surface to pick up the stranded 'castaways' I'll be happy if we make into Manhattan on the same bus; comfort can come later I suppose.
I've seen 130-140 on the local routes at Stengal, mainly the Q15 and the Q14. They sound horrible!!
Actually, bus assignment are made for the sole purpose of giving BusTalkers something to complain about. Seems to be working.
Unfair bus assignments and favortism as to who get's the best buses, and we all know who that is, is something worth complaining about.
BIG AL
(Not necessarily responding to your post but a few general comments): Fresh Pond has lots of old stuff too. They get rid of 1985's and get them replaced with 1987's from Gleason. Old replacing old! The CSJAMQV roster of 11/10/00 shows 26 buses from 1985 and 81 from 1987. That's a total of 107 out of 251 buses 13+ years old. If you want to add to that another 41 from 1990, that makes 148 out of 251 FP buses over 10 years old. And unlike Queens, Fresh Pond maintance is lousy!.......Look at SI. for a moment. They have virtually all new 1999 Orion local buses, which means they can be all used evenly hours of service wise since none have to be overworked because of older buses being ran, but I'm told they are rags already! Maybe Orion does manufacture a lousy bus, but SI maintance has to be able to do better. Unless of course, they spend their best efforts on the MCI's.
The Orions on S.I. are horrible. They are scratched up and run horrible. It's not Orion's fault, the 6000s in Queens seem to be in much better shape.
YUK only cares about maintaining the MCI's, local bus riders get the shaft. Much more of a LI Bus-like operation over there.
It's just such a shame to see brand new buses getting such abuse and poor maintainance. I even think LI Bus could've done a better job at keeping them up!
Except that depot maintainance forces don't do much work on the MCIs, since the lease deal the TA signed has MCI responsible for the work.
-Hank
To add, the buses on Staten Island are so slow!
No slower than buses in any other boro. Do they meet their schedules, sans traffic? Yes? Then they ain't slow.
-Hank
I agree with you. Queens divisions do get the older buses, even Stengal could've used more of the 6xxx series Orions that went to S.I.
And S.I. Maintainance is horrible, especially at YUK. Those "new" Orions they have are already in sorry shape.
It's all politics. S.I. gets new buses because they have the political (Republican) clout.
Queens really needs some new buses, especially at Jamaica depot, where alot of old, slow RTS's (with 6V-92, I've been on them and they are slow!) run on local routes. I remember riding the Q58 (Fresh Pond) and seeing how slow that RTS was. And SE Queens does get the shaft when it comes to express buses.
Bottom line. Any depot that maintains it's buses well, and has alot of old buses should get more new buses. Every depot should have it's share of new and old buses. But unfortunately the TA politicos don't feel the same way.
there is no such thing as a top of the line orion. the company builds junk buses they cant even sell in the province of ontario where they are made.
Now, if they truly built junk buses, then they wouldn't be so popular around here, you know. It's only logical.
Ding Dong. When I say top of the line, I mean buses that are in top shape, or excellent condition and well maintained. I don't mean am/fm cassette stereo, cruise control and power windows, seats & door locks.
BIG AL
Actually Flxibles were junk until about the 1987 model and they were wildly popular. Especially the problem plagued 870 model.
Well I think that Orion's older buses are junk. The buses with the 6V-92 engine are loud, slow, and have a higher breakdown rate than the newest Orion buses. The older buses also seem weaker and have a poor body.
The new Orions aren't the best buses on the road, but they are a large improvement over the older (1995 and before) ones.
I agree with you. Why do some boroughs get the luxury of brand new buses and the others get the bad ones. It should be evenly spread out!
I have to side with KB on this one too, even though I get to 'suffer' on the circa '82 RTS's on the X68 out of QV. Though the X68 is almost as long time wise and mileage wise as some of the SI routes, the loads aren't there like they are in SI.
I had the opportunity to take the X17 a few times to see friends and family on the South Shore of SI, and let me tell you it was not fun. People tell me that a 2 1/2 hour commute is not uncommon with the standee loads. Recently I went out and we were still at standee level five stops into SI. Definitely not a good thing! I was beginning to think that the TA shouldn't go for the MCI's on this route, but rather the articulated New Flyer's with some soft seats! Even after geting off the X17, I had to take a cab to get to where I was going, though by all logic there should have been an x-bus running down that porion of Hylan Boulevard.
As an X68 rider, I'm happy that some new blood is coming into the line. Admittedly though reliable, those 1982 RTS's were getting a bit past their prime. But those Castleton Orions havn't been the gift they seem. Once they are 'cleaned up', you'll see that they will be a testament to the abilities of the QV maintainers to take a sow's ear and turn it into a silk purse! They should have stayed on SI to add more South Shore service. We could have endured another year or so of the RTS's. What we could really use is better scheduling. Imagine that the last X68 leaves NYC at 5:43PM. This line serves a part of Queens where the Subway stops running a good five miles before the end of the X68 line. For anyone who works past 6PM, more common than you think, you face the possiblity of taking Queens Surface's QM1 down Union Turnpike and then transferring to a local bus to get you somewhere *near* where you wanted to go, instead of having the X68 dropping you off at where you boarded it in the morning.
Do I hear a Queens vs. Staten Island war here on BusTalk? I have no sympathy for anybody who cries about a 2 hour commute be it from Staten Island or anywhere else to/from someones residence to where they work, no matter what the mode of transportation is. Move closer to where you work in relationship to where you live! Or, knowing where you live in the first place, why do you live so far away from where you work? And then cry about it! It is your choice for such a long commute and yours alone! When my wife and I were in the market for home "ownership" 10 years ago, right from the start I made the decison that there was no way I was going to travel 2 hours to/from work! Sure, I could have gotten more house for the money somewhere else, but I refuse to have an excessive commute!
Im not crying. I am just justifying why SI should get the new equipment. I dont live in SI by choice and it doesnt really matter if you have sympathy for me or not. When i first moved to SI the commute wasnt 2 hours it was a reasonable 1 hour. As for a SI vs Queens war i wont touch on that subject. Lastly, thank you for your advice as to where i should live (even though i didnt ask you for it!). Enjoy your commute!
Peace,
Kevin
SI needs the new equipment. Over the past few years, they've had nothing but hand me downs-1700/1800s, 3800s, 4100s and 4800s. They had the oldest buses in the system. Queens has had the oldest equipment for a few years now, however, the Queens Depots have taken far better care of their buses than the other depots have and that's the reason why JAM and QV are still running 1982 and 1985 Suburban Coaches out of their Depots. Eventually, Nova Suburbans from 1997 will be dominating Jamaica Depot and Orion Suburbans at QV. Those will be as close as MCI that you're going to get and I wouldn't be complaining about the Nova Coaches-as far as I see, they look and run great. QV will take far better care of the buses than CAS did with 611-630. 1760-a former QV bus still running. 3964- a former QV Bus still running. Get the picture? Trust me, those Orions and Novas will be dominating Queens Express Service for a long time to come. Want MCI? You'll have to go either to UP in Brooklyn or to SI to get those. You'll NEVER see an MCI in Queens-they're not needed or liked here-especially at QV. I've spoken to a bus driver friend of mine and he said that the MCI was at QV. The President of QV said that the bus was "ugly" and too big for the depot. He said that he doesn't want those buses in his depot. Same was said for the Viking which 998 is still sitting in College Point Storage with no where to go. I believe 996-998 will be transferred over to NJT, they sure have a whole bunch of tall buses in service there.
I was quite sad to see the new 6xxx Orions YUK has appear to already be in such poor shape. They are scratched up and don't sound so good.
Also they have torn seats and lots of magic marker.
Stengal's 6xxx buses are in much better shape.
Now I did it, huh? Your fellow SI friend Hudson seemed to have a problem with the second hand Orions being used on local routes despite the fact that all these new MCIs were coming in. As I said before, kindly suggest to the TA that they bring the Orions back to SI, send some MCIs to Queens, and both problems will be solved. You'll be able to have standees on the express routes again, and you'll never see an MCI in local service. It's most likely not a regular thing with the Orions anyway, and if kids really wanted to, they could get on an express bus by paying three dollars and tear up the seats just the same. You don't think kids ride the express buses? They do, rather if they are on local routes or express routes.
The difference between NYC and Houston is that Manhattan is like our downtown. All serious express equipment is used for park and ride service and whatever is left, usually alot is sent out on the locals and regular express service. Your x17 or x68 is just the same as our 132 or 137, CBD (Central Business District) to neighborhood (or borough) or vice versa. The difference is is that you all actually get ALL express equipment. Up until recently, the 132 and the 137 used exclusively RTS and Flxible equipment and I don't mean the goold old surburban kind either! The rattle rattle, will we make this turn without tipping over kind.
Basically, you all are using equipment on regular express routes that should be only used for Park & Ride service in my opinion. If we had MCIs here, the P&R zone 4 fare would shoot from $4.00 (yeah, we pay four dollars to ride on suburban Ikarus buses if nothing else is available) to about $5.50. Even though some of the top express equipment here does very sparatic local duty, it's even rarer to see a Viking on the 131-Memorial Express, IMO, Houston's most exclusive express route. In fact, I've never seen it.
So IMO, if I used y'alls logic, I could say that you all don't deserve MCIs on "express routes" because they are the type of buses for intercity or P&R service. You see my point now? So really, I don't think you all should be upset that a few lucky Queens residents get to ride on an express Orion (of all things an Orion!) on the Q74.
>>> Lastly what do you mean by "you Staten Island People"?<<<
Um, that's just a simple term describing the area you live in. What, you think I'm being vulgar? Please, don't go there.
The MCI's are too big to fit into and inside the Queens depots.
1) School kids do not patronize express routes in NYC(except the X32 which is a school run).
2) NYCTA & NYCDOT private lines do not have dedicated park-n-ride routes.
3) The way I see it, as long as the express buses have soft seats, I don't see a problem as far as riding an old RTS or an Orion/MCI. Why soft seats? Ride an express bus riding over NY potholes and you'll find out. Unfortunately, Queens Surface occasionally operates regular local buses with the hard seats on the express routes. For $3, you shouldn't have to ride a local bus on an express route but since they don't have enough express coaches, if they don't run them, they'd have to cut back service so there really isn't a choice other than waiting for the next bus. I'd say that QS runs about 65% of their available fleet on the express runs alone on a typical weekday.
I guess that's why there are alot of their old RTS's running on the local routes during the rush.
[Unfortunately, Queens Surface occasionally operates regular local buses with the hard seats on the express routes]
I haven't been on them for awhile, but my recollection is that the local CNG buses (400's and a few 300's) were a little more comfortable than the express versions (500's). Although the express buses had high-back, cushioned seats, as contrasted with the local buses with plastic seats and hard cloth inserts, the legroom on the local buses seemed greater than on the express buses, which gave me a more comfortable ride overall. I guess some of the seats on the express buses do not have a legroom problem and would be more comfortable, but these would probably be the side-facing rather than the front-facing seats.
The local CNG Orions at QS seem to actually get better 'comfort feedback' than the express version. They seat the same number of people, but the local version does give you a little more legroom. The only downside is that they are usually dirtier and will have scratched up windows that show their local roots. Overall it's a trade off between cramped & clean or slightly more comfy but dirty.
The hard/soft seat issue has more to do with what's available in the yard when we're trying to "Make Service" then anything else.
BTW, Transportation has groups of buses (Orion hard seat, Orion soft seat, RTS, MCI) that will tend to be assigned to the same group of route every day, but if they run out of, for example, MCI's you might see a RTS or a hard seat Orion on that route. Another example would be bike rack equiped buses, yes some routes need them because folks tend to show up with a bike on them.
Mr t__:^)
After looking at the Houston Metro website, that 131-Memorial Express doesn't sound so exclusive to me. Neither does your 132 or 137. All three lines only have a $1.50 fare and stay in one zone. That's why you get the regular local buses on those lines, they're not FULL express routes. Especially the 132. 45 minutes out of its one hour run is dedicated to LOCAL SERVICE. If you try to compare those three routes and their equipment to the NYC express routes and equipment, then you have no idea as to what you are talking about.
Now if you want to compare the TA(especially Staten Island)buses to your Metro buses, then match up your Houston park and ride bus routes 283 and 291 to Kuykendahl--to our express runs X17 and X68(ALL of the TA's X runs are called express runs, we do not have park-n-ride routes). The 283/291 routes go the full four zones and are true Houston "express" buses(and sorry you were wrong, the fare is $3.50 not $4), but they still do not match up to the NYCTA express routes.
The 283 & 291 take on average about 1 hour and 4 minutes to complete their runs. The X68 to Queens takes 1 hour and 25 minutes and the X17 to Staten Island takes just under two hours NOT INCLUDING TRAFFIC DELAYS. And the X17(as well as all other exp runs) doesn't pick up passengers in Staten Island going towards SI on the PM rush and doesn't pick up passengers in Manhattan going towards Manhattan on the AM rush,it only drops off, yet it still takes 2 hours. And all Staten Island routes to midtown take at least 1 hour and 30 minutes.
Don't believe me, see for yourself at: www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/service/bus/bussch.htm
So when you're thinking express, you're thinking Houston express and not New York express. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS ALTOGETHER. You should compare Houston park-n-ride to NYC express. If they were to put a local bus on the 283 or 291, I'm sure there would be many upset passengers there.
So as to your prior post, in my opinion you were misinformed.
Yes bustalkers, I know the X17 runs all day.
>>>After looking at the Houston Metro website, that 131-Memorial Express doesn't sound so exclusive to me. Neither does your 132 or 137. All three lines only have a $1.50 fare and stay in one zone. That's why you get the regular local buses on those lines, they're not FULL express routes.<<<
They're not full express routes you say? Well, why don't they just call them the 131-Memorial Limited or the 132-Harwin Limited? They are express buses and just because we out here pay for a zone 1 express bus as much as you pay for a lcal in NYC makes them no less exclusive. Have you ever been down Memorial Dr. or even seen pictures of it? It's pretty exclusive. BTW, the 131 and 132 are exclusively surburbanized now, but I guess since we only pay $1.50 you'll go and fire off a letter to DeLibero demanding she raise the express rates.
>>>Especially the 132. 45 minutes out of its one hour run is dedicated to LOCAL SERVICE. If you try to compare those three routes and their equipment to the NYC express routes and equipment, then you have no idea as to what you are talking about.<<<
EXPRESS is EXPRESS my friend. The 132 is an express bus and the x17 is an express bus. Just because you pay $3.00 to ride your express makes Houston's no less exclusive or express. How can you even compare our Park & Ride service with your express runs which make many a local stop in SI. So, therefore, I guess they should send some hard-seaters to SI to do a run on the x17 as well. Also, look at the x63, it makes the exact same kind of local stops as the 132 except we don't get ripped off if we don't get on the freeway by paying the full zone 1 fare. So, by your logic, 1746 should be in the scrapper and a local hard-seater Orion could do the run just as easily because it serves the local areas of SE Queens.
>>>Now if you want to compare the TA(especially Staten Island)buses to your Metro buses, then match up your Houston park and ride bus routes 283 and 291 to Kuykendahl--to our express runs X17 and X68(ALL of the TA's X runs are called express runs, we do not have park-n-ride routes). The 283/291 routes go the full four zones and are true Houston "express" buses(and sorry you were wrong, the fare is $3.50 not $4), but they still do not match up to the NYCTA express routes.<<<
You can't compare our P&R service to your express service becuase they make NO local stops what-so-ever. Your express buses do. So the 291 and 283 aren't express buses, but Park & Ride buses. Also, the 2-Bellaire, a local, not even limited stop bus, takes 1hr. 45 minutes during the weekdays and usually over 2hrs. because of traffic on Bellaire near Sharpstown. Where are our MCI's. The 2 still uses the local 1982 RTS buses. The length of a run has no bearing on what equipment a routes gets. The 65-Bissonnet/Yale takes FOUR HOURS and they still use RTS equipment. Come on. Boo hoo, I was wrong, I'm only 15 and not a transit insider, it's amazing IMO that I know as much as I do about buese and transit in general as I do. Your express routes do match ours because they both provide local service and have a 6 or more mile jaunt on the freeway pr expressway.
>>>So when you're thinking express, you're thinking Houston express and not New York express. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS ALTOGETHER. You should compare Houston park-n-ride to NYC express. If they were to put a local bus on the 283 or 291, I'm sure there would be many upset passengers there.
So as to your prior post, in my opinion you were misinformed.<<<
No they're not. The X17 is "EXPRESS" and the 132 id the Harwin EXPRESS. The keyword being EXPRESS. You can't compare Houston Park & Ride service to NYC Express serive (NYC doesn't have P&R service). I really don't see how you could be so misinformed yourself when the schedule files had in large enough print, 131-Memorial EXPRESS, 132-Harwin EXPRESS, 137-Northshore EXPRESS, 283-Kuykendahl/Post Oak Park & Ride, and 291-Kuykendahl/ N. Shepherd/TMC Park & Ride. BTW, why didn't you look up the 202, 204, and 205. They all have pretty long trips as well, at least an hour. And really, it's not my fault that your routes take so long, so don't make it look like your service is more exclusive beccause of that and then backdoor and complain about it.
BTW, I don't take kindly to your condenscending tone on Houston Transit. We're not as closed a city as NYC and we don't have as many people. Our buses deserve to be called Express buses more so than NYCs because ours can get to a destination in an hour or less, it takes you all two hours. Maybe next time, you won't get such a sharp response from me if you come at me correctly and don't try to have that NYC attitude of we're better than you.
Disclaimer: That last paragraph in no way was a diss on NYC, I'd much rather live there than here, but, as I do live here, I will not take someone trying to look down upon my city over express service.
Do you know what? This express route and junk is too confusing. NYCT should have a local route, then express route leading from that local route like most transit companies. Then this good bus bad bus thing wouldn't be a problem, and they shouldn't make it twice the fare, anyway.
Why don't they do what NJ Transit does? NJ Transit has very few actual "Express" buses. The NJT New York buses carry local passengers too, so it's like a combination of local/commuter/express.
The only acutal "Park and Ride" routes are
320 Vince Lombardi P&R
321 Meadowlands P&R
322 North Bergen P&R
323 Garden State Arts Center P&R
Just about all the other Park & Rides are situated along the regular bus lines, like the Allwood Road P&R (191, 192, 195, 705), Willowbrook Mall P&R (75, 191, 193, 194, 195, 197) , Old Bridge P&R (139).
NJT does have some rush-hour bus lines that suppliment their main-line counterparts, such as
144 and 148, which suppliment the 164
162 which suppliments the 163
155 and 157 which suppliment the 168
These, too, carry local passengers.
NJTransit's system seems much simpler and more streamlined.
Houston's is very simple as well. Zman just made it seem complicated by comparing our P&R serivce to NYCs express service.
[The only acutal "Park and Ride" routes are
320 Vince Lombardi P&R
321 Meadowlands P&R
322 North Bergen P&R
323 Garden State Arts Center P&R]
You've got some of the numbers mixed up. The correct line-up is:
320 North Bergen P&R
321 Vince Lombardi P&R
322 Meadowlands P&R
323 Garden State Arts Center P&R
>>>Also, look at the x63, it makes the exact same kind of local stops as the 132 except we don't get ripped off if we don't get on the freeway by paying the full zone 1 fare. So, by your logic, 1746 should be in the scrapper and a local hard-seater Orion could do the run just as easily because it serves the local areas of SE Queens.....Your express routes do match ours because they both provide local service<<<
Our express buses DO NOT accept local passengers and do not provide local service. Since you do not live here you are guessing that this is the case but you are dead wrong. If you get on a X63 bus in Queens, you must go to Manhattan. The driver will not let you on if you want to get off at a stop in Queens. And vice versa, an X63 bus coming from Manhattan into Queens will bypass all passengers waiting at all Queens bus stops. The same applies to all of NYC's express routes. NONE of them offer local service in any borough at any time.
>>>Have you ever been down Memorial Dr. or even seen pictures of it?
It's pretty exclusive.<<<
I wasn't commenting on the neighborhood, just the bus service. The 576 express bus in Los Angeles serves wealthy areas like Malibu,Bel Air and Beverly Hills but the line is definitely not exclusive. Why? Because 99% of it's riders come from South Central Los Angeles(housekeepers/gardeners,etc.) and no resident from Malibu or Bel Air would be caught dead on any public bus(but that's another post altogether). By the way, I am not comparing the 131 to the 576.
>>>BTW, I don't take kindly to your condenscending tone on Houston Transit.<<<
I was not being condescending about Houston transit. I have never been to Houston so I have no right to say that Houston's service is better or worse than New York's. I was just attempting to make an innocent comparison.
>>>Maybe next time, you won't get such a sharp response from me if you come at me correctly and don't try to have that NYC attitude of we're better than you.<<<
Where in the world did you get that kind of response to my post? That's the last thing that I was doing. I just noticed the similarity between Houston's express service and Los Angeles' express service(where I lived for two years). They both offer express service then after completing that portion of their route, offer local service, so I am comparing that style of service to New York's. That's the difference between Houston/LA and New York. New York's service as I mentioned before does not carry local passengers. And as far as having a "we're better than you" attitude, you took it the wrong way. I am only comparing bus services and not cities or persons.
You are highly knowledgeable about Houston's bus service, that I readily admit. But your knowledge and comparison of New York's express service is just a little off.
He has a problem with the Orions being used on local routes. Why shouldnt he? His argument was that SI should not be sending those buses to Queens to be used for local service. Instead they should stay on SI to provide service for the South Shore which currently does not have express bus service served by NYC Transit. We do not have anything against Queens, at least i dont.
Peace,
Kevin
If it's soooo damn awful, MOVE!
Peace,
ANDEE
{If it's soooo damn awful, MOVE!}
I am! Thank you for your advice (yeah right!).
Peace,
Kevin
I think instead of just complaining here, you should just take your case to the transit headquarters, wherever that is.
I was not crying or complaining. Get off it already. I was just reporting the facts. I can easily fix the problem by taking Academy to the City.
Peace,
Kevin
I didn't mean it that way. I was just saying that if you have any ideas or suggestions on improving the transit service, you should tell the nyc headquarters so that they may consider it.
I must say, RTS_2150, that was WELL said. I couldn't agree more. Some folk are simply ingrates, thats all.
Mark
105 and 1742 were both on the Q32 yesterday. Also 1742 had it's double parked markers on at 82 St and 35 Ave becuase she was having wheelchair lift problems. As far as the coaches are concerned, at least I get to ride a Coach bus on a local line if it's the Q26, Q32 or Q74. It's additional buses on the road which CS is short. That's the reason why CS is getting Orions from SI. Since SI is getting Express MCIs, they won't need Orion Coaches anymore. Queens has to get rid of their 1982 Express Suburbans because most of them are really showing their old age. You also have 1985 Coaches around Queens which used to be on SI. They're getting replaced too. I bet most X68 riders are having a treat riding 611-630 everyday instead of their 1700/3800. At least it's more advanced. And I've traveled to SI on the X17. It took 2 and a half hours to get from 34 St and 5th Ave to Yukon Depot- and that was on a SATURDAY. I really feel for the SI Express Bus commuters. Most of the time, I bet that they run late for school or work because of the traffic. IDK because I don't live on SI but I can understand. On the other It's taken me 2 hours to get from Utopia Pkwy and Union Tpke to 42 St and 6th Ave on the QM1. We feel it here in Queens too-I've sure did. In other words-take what's given to you-no matter what it is, AT least you're getting some service!
I haveabout 17 to 20 pages of material..lots and lots of diversions
Let me know if I should post them
Steve, please post them. Thanks.
Please do. Those of us in NYC who don't know this stuff would probably appreciate it.
THERE ARE ALOT.I AM GOING TO DO THE BOROS ONE AT A TIME
BX1 SB on the Grand Concourse ,149 St,Walton Av 144 st,Grand Concourse ,,Stand at 144 St
BX15 SB on 3 av,149 St,145 St Bridge,Lenox Av,125 St and regular
Bx15 NB on 125 St,Lenox Av, 145 St,145 St Bridge,3 Av and regular
B21 SB on 3 Av,at 143 St bear left on Alexander Av,141 St,3 Av Stand at 144 St
BX33 WB on 138 St,St Anns Av,149 St,Lenox Av right on 135 St
BX33 EB on 135 st,Lenox Av,145 St,St Anns Av Left on 138 St and Regular
BX41 SB on 3 Av,at 143 St bear left onto Alexander Av,Right on 141 st,R on 3 Av ,stand on 144 St
S51 Ferry Bound via Lily Pond ,McClean ,Sand Lane.Hylan ,Fingerboard, Tompkins ylan,Bay St
S51 Lincoln Av BOund,,Bay St,Hylan Blvd,Tompkins Av Fingerboard Av,Hylan Blvd,Sand Lane ,McClean Av Lilypon Av
S53 Brooklyn Bound via McClean Lily Pond ,Fr Capadonno Blvd,in SOuth Beach Terminal
ret via same from South Beach Terminal
S79 86 St Buond via Narrows South,Lily Pond,Capodonno Blvd Sand Lane into South Beach
Ret via Same
X1 and X10 Staten Island Bound ,No Service to Staten Island until 2 PM
All Expresses returning to SI will use Lincoln Tunnel in NJTpke Exit 13 Goethels Bridge ,Into SIE,X1 Exit at Richmond Av ,,X10 exit at Bradley
M1 SB via Lenox av ,110 st,Central Park West,96 St,thru Park Transverse to 5 Av and regular
1130 AM -6 PM
M! NB via Madison Av,97 St,Thru Park ,Central Park West,116 St,Lenox Av to 148 St
12 PM to 5 PM
M2 SB Adam Clayyton Powell 7 av,,110 St,Central Park 96 St,CP Transverse to 5 Av
1130 AM to 5 PM
M2 NB 1130 A M to 5 PM
Madison ,97 St,CP RELEIFS MADE AT !!0 and CP West
M3 SB
1130 to 5 PM
Manattan Av,110 St,CP West,95 St,96 t,Transverse 5 av
M3 NB Madison ,97 st,CP Transverse,CP West,110 Manhattan Av regular
RELIEFS MADE AT 110 and CP West
M4 SB
1130 to 5 PM
Broadway ,110 st,CP West,96 st,Transverse 5 av
M4 NB
Madison ,97 st,CP Transverse,CP West,110 st,Broadway
M5 SB
12 PM to 5 PM
Columbus Av,57 st,5 AV
M5 NB
57 st,57 st .8 av,Columbs Circle,Broadway
M6 NB
12 PM to 5 PM
6 Av ,57 st,to 7 av and Stand
M6 SB
7 av frmo Temporary Stand
M7 SB
12 PM to 5 PM
Broadway ,Columbus Av,57 St,7 Av
M7 NB
6 Av,57 st,8 av,Columbus Circle ,Broadway
M10 NB
7 AM to 6 PM
8 Av,Columbus Circle,Broadway,72 st,Amsterdam Av,96 St,CP West,
M10 SB
7 Am to 6 PM
CP West,96 st,Columbus Av,57 St,Broadway
M20 NB
7 AM to 6 PM
8 A,to 57 St Terminate on 8 Av ,farside of 57 St..Take stand on Bway ,nearisde of 57 St (use 58 St east to Broadway)
M20 SB
7 Am to 6 Pm
from Temporary Stand ,,South on Brodaway
M15 NB
10 30 AM to 4 PM
1 Av .53 st,3 Av,128 st,2 av
M18 SB
12 Pmto 5 PM
Regualr route to 110 and Lenox ,,west on 110 ,Frederick Douglas Bld and terminate
M18 NB from Temp terminal ,,via 110 st,Manhattan Av and regular
m31 NB
11 AM to 4 PM
York av to 86 st ,East End ,90 st,York Av,terminate at bus stop on 88 St
RELEIFS MADE AT 88 and YORK AV
M60 NB
1230 PM to 415 PM
125 st ,Lenox Av,,142 st,Harlem River Dr ,,132 st Exit at Park A,Park Av,125 st Eastbound
M60 WB
Triboro Bridge t o126 and 2 av ,,west on 126 to 3 Av,127 st,Harlem River Drive ,155 st exit ,8 av,125 st and Westbound
M86 EB
When 1 av s closed at 1030 am ,last stop at 68 st and 2 Av
M66 WB
from temp terminal ,south on 2 a v to 67 st , and regualr
M66 RELIEFS DURING 1 AV CLOSURE WILL BE AT 68 and 2 Av
M72 EB
when 1 av is closed at 1030 AM ,,
regualr to 3 Av,79 st 2 Av to 72 st terminal
M72 WB
from temp terminal
west on 72 st
M72 EB
6 am to 6 pm
regular route to COlumbus av,65 eastbound
M72 WB
6 AM to 6 PM
CP Transverse 66 ,Broadway ,72 st,
M79 WB
79 st Madison ,86 st,CP Transvers Columbus ,79 st WEstbound
M79 EB
79 st ,Amsterdam ,86 st,Transverse ,5 Av79 st eastbound
when 1 av is closed at 1030 AM,,,79 to 2 av and terminate
to go WB ,,,south on 2 av,72 st,3 a to 79 Westbound
M86 EB
1030 Am to 4 PM
86 st to 2 Av,and take stand
M86 WB
2 av to 79 st,3 av 86 and regular
M96 EB
when 1 av is closed at 1030 AM
96 st ,4 av,97 to 2 av and stand
M96 WB via 2 av96 westbound
M106 EB
3 av,112 2 av to 106 and terminate
M106 WB
from temp terminal
via 106 st
M100 SB
125 to Lenox ,to 126 and stand
M100 NB via 126 ,Adam CLayton Powell ,125 st and regualr
M101 SB
from 193 Terminal via 125 8 av,CP West 96 st,Central Pk Transverse 96 st ,Lex and regualr
M101 NB
via 3 av,96 ,Madison av,97 st,CP Transverse CP West 8 av,to 125 st
M102 SB
frm 146 st terminal ,,South on Lenox ,110 St ,CP West,96 st,CP Transverse 96 st,Lexington
M102 NB 3 av,96 st,Madison ,97 st,CP Transverse CP West,110 st,Lenonx to regular
M116 EB
116 to Lenox ,126 st and stand
M116 Bvia 126 to Adam CLayton ,7 av,116 st and regular
Q32 NB
10 30 AM
Madison ,57 st to Queensboro Bridge UPPPER Roadway
B9
Shore R via 60st 6 Av,65,5 ,60 st,to temp stand at 5 av
to Kings Plaza via Bay Ridge Av,,Ridge Blvd 2 av,6 0st to stand at far Side of 60 st,,,ret via 3 Av to regular route
B11 This route terminates at 49 and 5 Av
Leaving Flatbush Av to 49 st and 5 Av
Return via 49 st,5 Av,50 st to temp stand ,,and continue to Flatbush Av
B16 Leaving Ocean Av
via Fort Hamiltn,Bay Ridge Av,10 Av,86 st,5 Av 88 st,Ft Hamilton to temp stand far side of 86 st
Leaving Shore Rd via reg to temp stand on 86 ,near side of 3 av
Return via 3 Av,87 st,Ridge Blvd ,86 st and to Shore Road
THE B16 is Divided into 2 Segments
ALL ABOVE ROUTES EFFECTIE at 1010 AM
B35 1020 AM
to 1 Av terminate at 39 st near side of 4 AV.return via 39 st,5 Av,36 st,Gleason Yd and Turn around....LEaving yard via 36 st,5 av,39 st and regular to Hegemen
B61 1040 AM
No Buses to LIC
Leaving Red Hook via Wythe ,Clymer,Kent,Division,Wythe ,and reg to Richard St
B63 2 Segments
1035 AM
ALL b63 Shore Road will terminate at Bay Ridge Av
1-----Shore Rd Bound ,,,reg to Bond st,Schmerhorn,3 av to temp temrinal near side Of Atlantic Av
return via 3 av,Atlantic Av and reg to COlumbia St
2-----Leaving Shore Rd
reguar to Dean ,Flatbush ,Bergen to temp stand near side of 5 Av
Ret via Bergen St,5 av,67 st,6 Av,Bay Ridge Av,5 av to termp stand ifo Movie Theatre
B65 1035 AM
Fulton St bound will terminate at temp stand at Bergen and 5 Av,near Side
St JOhns and Ralph Bound from Termp stand via 5 Av,Dean st and Regular
B67 1035 AM
Leaing McDonald and Cortelyou via Flatbush ,5 Av,Bergen ,Flatbush to term stand far side of Bergen
B43 1040 Am
NB Via Graham,,Driggs ,,termp stand is Driggs at Graham Av
Lincoln Rd Bound via Driggs,Manhattan ,Engerts ,Graham and Regalr
B41 1035 Am
2 segments
Leaving Kings Plaza ,via Flatbush ,5 ,Atlantic ,Flatbush to stand
ret via Flatbush Av
Leaving Cadman Plaza
via Nevins ,Schmerhorn,Flatbush,Livingston ,to tem stand on Livingston near Nevins
Reg route return
B44 1035 Am
Leaving Emmons via Gates,Marcy ,,Division,Roebling and regular
Emmons Av bound is regualr
B25 1035 AM
Leaving Alabama via Fulton ,Vanderblt.Greene Av,,,,last stop is Greene at Fulton ,,,ret via Fulton ,to Alabama
Leaving Furman St
Fulton ,Ashland Place.Dekabl ret to Furman St
B45 1035 AM
LEaving Ralph Av via Atlantic ,Vanderbilt,Bergen ,Flatbush ,5 a,Atlantic to Temp stand far side of 5 Av
ret via Atlantic to Ralph
Leaving Court St
via Livingston Ret to COUrt St
B8 1010 AM
All terminate at the VA Hospital from Church Av Corridor
B24 1055 AM
West st bound
Greenpoint Av,Provost st,Paidge ,McGuiness ,Ash St,Commercial ,Franklin Greenpoint a
Kent Av BOund
via West St,Kent St,Franklin St,COmmercial St,Box StMcGuiness Blvd under the bridge,Paidge Av,Proost st,Greenpint
all bus terminate at Washington Plaza
B26 1035 Av
2 Segments
Leaving Ridgewood
via Fulton St,Carlton ,Greene ,last stop near side of Fulton St....left on Fulton St and to Ridgewood
Leaving Adams St
via Fulton St,Ashland Place,Dekalb to Adams St
B48
1035 Av
Leaving Prospect Park
via Greene ,Marcy ,Lorimer ,to meeker,,Kingsland Nassau and reg
Return via Nassau,Humbolt ,Bayard st,Lorimer ,Lee to Nostrand ,,Putnam ,Franklin and regualar
B38 1040 Am
2 segments
Leaving Ridgewood
via Dekalb ,Nostrand .lafayette to Ridgewood
Leaving Cadman via Fulton ,Ashland,Dekalb to Cadman
B52 1035 Av
2 segment
Leaving Ridgewood
via Fulton ,Greene ,,last stop near side of Fulton ,,Left on Fulton ,Carlton ,Greene and to Ridgewood
Leavng Cadman Plaza
via Fulton ,Ashalnd ,,Dekalb to Cadman Plaza
B54 1040 Am
2 segments
Leaving Broadway
Myrlte.Nostrand,Wlloughby StMarcy av,Myrtle ,to Ridgewood
Leaving Jay via Myrtle ,Skillman St,Park Av,Tarafe Place,Murtle and Return to Jay
Q59 1045 Am
Queens Blvd Bound
Broadway,Berrry st ,Grand St,Bedford ,and Regular
To Bway and Kent via Grand St,Roebling St,Metro Av,Utica Av,grand st and Regualr
B57 st
Temporay st on Flushing near side of Franklin
Leaving High
via Flushing,Franklin ,Park Av,Classon ,Flushingto regular
eaving 61 st,frmo stand on flushing at Lee via Flushing ,Nostrand ,Park ,Marcy ,to Flushing and Regular
B69 1035 Am
2 segments
Leaving High via Vanderbilt to temp stand near side of Dekalb
return via Vanderbilt,Dekalb,Clermont,Myrtle Vanderbilt and reg to High
Leaving 19 st via Greene to temp stand on Greene at far side of Vnderbilt
ret via Greene ,Clermont,Fulton ,Vanderbilt,and reg to 19 st
b70 1030 AM
will terminate at 39 st ,near side of 5 av,,,
make right on 5 av,36,into yard and turnround.VA Hospital bound via reg route to 8 av and Bay Ridge Av,,then Bay Ridge Av,10 a,86 st,into 7 av,
B71 1030 am
2 segment
leaving Rogers and Sterling
to temp stand near side of 5 av
ret via Union St,5 a,1st street,6 av,Union St to rogers
Leaving Van Brunt to a temp stand near side of 3 av
retu via Union ,3 av,,3 st,Smith st,to van brunt
B75 1030 Am
2 segments
leaving 19 st to temp stand on 9 st near side of 5 av.retu via 5 a,10 st,6 av ,9 st to regualr
leavig High t
via 2 av,10 st,3 av to stand near side of 9 st
return via 3 av,9 st, to High
B77 1035 Am
terminate at 3 av and 9 st
Leaving Van Brunt via 2 av,10 t,3 av 9 st, to far side of 3 av
RELIEFS MADE AT 3 AV and 9 st
B1 1015 Am
termiante at 5 av and Bay Ridge Av
Leaving Shore Road via Bay Ridge Av,3 av,Bay Ridge Pwy ,Ridge Blvd,Bay Ridge Av and regualr
OPERATES AS A SHUTTLE
Shore Road Bound to Bay Ridge near side 5av t temp stand
McKenzie Bound from Temp stand on Bay Ridge av ,right on 5 av ,67 ,6 av,bay Ridge Av and Regualr
B64 1010 Am
terminate at 5 av and 86
Leaving Stillwell to temp stand on far side of 86 st
return via 5 av,88 st,Ft Ham .86 st,to Stillwell
B4 1015 Am
terminate at Bay Ridge Pwy at 11 av
Narrows Bound
via Bay Ridge Pwy to far side of 11 Av
return via Bay Ridge pwy ,10 av,Bay Ridge Av,11 av,Bay Ridge Pwy to Emmons
What about Queens?
There were no diversions regarding Queens and the MTA...Triboro might have had something
I guess I'm the only guy who knows how to say "Thank You" around here! People here want, want, want and are never satisfied or know how to say a simple "Thank You". Just posting all this stuff cost you lots of time and effort.
Steve
crash
if you are interested in greyhound bus, check out the greyhound club on yahoo
greyhound through express
HMMM..if i hadn't seen you today I would've thought you were the disturbed passenger.
Peace,
ANDEE
andee... yes, fortunately i was in the company of several equally disturbed railfans, who can vouch for my whereabouts...
I'm wondering alound how Salaam got back to LA....
-Hank
I would like to know if anyone has heard of news in regards to the 4 new South Shore routes for SI & if the Governor is going to sign the express bus bill.
In addition, has anyone also heard of any possible route descipition & route numbers for the 4 new South Shore routes(if the bill is signed).
Since most but not all of the Orion Surburban express buses are arriving from Yukon to Casey Stegel, is NYCT planning to take out the soft seats & replace them with hard seats & will they keep some of the soft seats for service on the X32 & X51 routes.
probably not, because casey Stangel and Queens Villiage would want to get rid of their old GMC RTS express buses
On a bus trip recently through Newark Airport, I saw the Orion V buses that are used on Green,Triboro and Queens Surface Corp. My trip took me the following route:
#1-Exchange Place to Newark-NOVABUS #1444-nice ride.
#62-Newark to South Amboy-Grumman #1845-not comfortable and loooonng.
#M17-South Amboy to Lawrence Harbor-NOVABUS #1190.
My question is. Why didn't NJ Transit ever buy Orion buses for their fleet? Was there something wrong with them, or NJ Transit was happy buying the hand-me-downs from NY(even saw ex Queens Surface #274 in Jersey City last week in the same paint color). Let me know.
First, Those ex-TA and NYCDOT buses you are seeing in NJ was not purchased by New Jersey Transit. We at NJ Transit have no bought any hand me downs since the 6800 series MCI Coaches (Them MCIs with the bathrooms used on the 319 route, NOW RETIRED). Those buses are purcased privately by thier contractors (Academy, Greenville Lafayette and so on).
Secondly, We at NJT had a order for 4 Orion VI Hybrid Electrics but cancelled the order and those for buses are now MTA's 6350-6353. We also looked at the Orion V Suburban but that was a waste of time.
Lastly, Those Orions are part of that same Orion V order that DOT recieved, those are the buses purchased originally by the WMATA but lost funding while the buses were in manufacture, so other companies picked them up, Here is the list:
NYC DOT (Green Lines & Queens Surface) (50 Buses)
Red & Tan of Jersey City (24 Buses)
Leisure Lines/Columbia University (1 Bus)
Hope this helps you out!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
[My trip took me the following route: ...#62-Newark to South Amboy]
The #62 does not go to South Amboy; it only goes as far as Perth Amboy. I suspect you caught the M17 from the #62 in Perth Amboy.
Well election day is this coming Tuesday, and I sure hope all of you go out and vote. This is an especially important election regarding transit and the City of New York.
There is a statewide ballot proposal, the Transportation Infrastructure Act of 2000. NY's aging infrastructure (roads and rail) still need alot of improvements. I sure hope this is approved, and I urge all to vote for it.
Next is the Presidential race. In my opinion, no candidate seems to care much about poor and working people, or improving mass transportation. I believe under the Clinton-Gore administration we have seen more and more foreign sweatshops because of loose "no rules" trade policies. Also most people who are low and middle class remain tight with money, while the upper class (the wealthy) have gotten most of the pie. There has been mass transit improvements, mainly here in NY, with Metrocard, safer trains, and newer buses. But the White House has had little to do with these advances, which were made by our state. Now Bush's individualist thinking scares me and I pray he does not get elected. His Republican agenda would dismantle further the already weakened safety blanket for the poor. Quoting Bush "Social security shouldn't be a federal program". I am on SSI until I get trained for a tech job so I will really be scared if Bush wins. And his interests in oil would definately discourage mass transit for car use.
So both major candidates are pretty lousy, and remember Gore's environmentalism could spawn NIMBY'ism against mass transit and commercial development. We have a Democrat mayor (Suozzi) in Glen Cove and look at what lousy shape downtown is still in.
The other candidates, Nader who will probably be so obsessed with the environment and stop new mass transit, and the racist fascist Buchanan.
Well I know what I'm doing this election day. I will vote! For the candidates that put "the people" not "the rich" first. Workers should control their companies. Mass transit problems (like the Manny B) should be solved immediately, and NIMBY's should be stripped of their
power to stop projects that are for the general good of society.
I want to see new bus and rail lines, right here on Long Island.
I want to not see anymore beggars on the subway (today I saw quite a few, homeless also seen sleeping in stations). There is plenty of wealth and food to go around no one should be homeless or hungry.
Working people should made a decent salary that can get them better than a cramped apartment, and time off.
I know this is somewhat off-topic and I apologize but this election affects us all, which in turn affects the quality of the subways and buses in NYC. More poverty means more homeless, more begging, more quality of life problems affecting the subway. The answer isn't more police but more aid and PROPER shelter for homeless, neither of the two major candidates has offered any solution to poverty.
That is why I'm voting for the SWP-Socialist workers. This is the only party that brings forth a scientific solution to alot of serious problems going on. So who will you be voting for this Tuesday?
[I am on SSI until I get trained for a tech job]
I hate to get further off topic, but you confused me. I always thought that once you start collecting Social Security, you keep collecting it until you die. Are you sure you're collecting social security and not unemployment? Are you over age 62?
S.S.I. is for people who going through a difficult time and have a minor impairment (for me that is anxiety and depression).
I am 24 years old and am eventually getting training so I can get a tech job. Unfortunately living in Sea Cliff, and with the loss of my Mom and no car, it's gonna be hard to get out of this personal mess.
The problem with S.S.I. is they cut your assistance when you start working, so a low pay job won't get you much more money. That's why I need the training.
It's a lonely life, I got no girlfriend either because I'm short 5'2 and most women don't want to have anything to do with me. Chinese women seem to date shorter guys but I gotta practice my Mandarin
I'm really scared what a Bush administration will do to people like me, even though I don't like Gore I pray Bush don't win.
With comments like "What does he think, Social Security is some kind of Federal Program" Bush represents an extreme right that will destroy what little improvements we made. And I'm sure Bush would love to dismantle Amtrak and cut mass transit funding so he can cut taxes for the rich.
He's talking about Supplemental Security Income, a state program. It's funded by employers as a form of insurance and the premiums will go up for them if they fire a lot of people.
Arti
John, while I share many of your sentiments, I think you're selling Ralph Nader short. True, he's a strong environmentalist who believes in the development of alternative energy sources. But he's also a dedicated supporter of mass transit. (Incidentally, he doesn't own a car.) How about giving the Nader campaign's website a look? It's
www.votenader.com
Take care.
-Dan
Well perhaps I am. Ralph Nader probably does have better ideas for transit than Gore and Bush.
I believe enrivonmentalism and mass transit go hand in hand, because I believe the automobile is the #1 thing harming the environment.
I would like to know is how many MCI & Orion Surburban express buses are at Yukon Bus Depot & when will the MCI be arriving at Ulmer Park Depot.
as of friday mci buses in service 2705-2740 and 2742-2745 a total of 40 2001 mci buses. awaiting prep for service 2741 and 2753. i dont know how many we are getting. orions 118-120,122 and 127 are still in the depot but are out of service. ulmer park may be getting 1998 mci buses from yukon due to the high mileage put on them here.
Posted on SubTalk at http://www.nycsubway.org/cgi-bin/subtalk.cgi?read=165465.
An article in the Metro section of Sunday’s Inkie describes how James Simon, SEPTA bus driver on Route 23 (formerly the longest trolley route in the city) saw a truck run over a woman while the truck driver was unaware. Simon alerted the truck driver, whose truck had been dragging the woman.
The woman’s brother called Simon a hero for saving his sister’s life.
On a trip today comning home on the S78, i saw RTS #4897 and #8303 running today as well. I thought yukon got rid of its RTS Buses. Why are they still running. Also, have you noticed more scratches on the Orion buses from Yukon? Is maitence a bit slow in getting these buses fixed with new windows? Maybe it is because the garage is so crowded they dont have room. Whats going on and when the new depot opening up?
I remember riding the YUK RTS's before they got the Orions, they are horrible! They rattle like hell and are slow.
Last time I was in S.I. I saw one operating on the S79. They are pieces of junk and if one comes when I'm taking the S79 I'll wait for the next bus. I'm not gonna ride on those things for an hour from Bay Ridge to S.I. Mall!
They should have kept their Express Orions and put them on local routes instead of running those horrid old RTS's.
Hey, hey, hey, John, don't blame the bus (unless it's an Orion) blame maintenence.
Well I also said in an earlier post Yukon's "new" Orions aren't in good shape either. If they can't keep a new bus in good condition at Yukon, just imagine how bad an old RTS from that depot would be!
Yukon has a total of 32 RTS's still assigned. 1987 TMC's 4892-4899 and 1990 TMC's 8293-8316, are still running out there. Yukon never got rid of its RTS's--Castleton did.
Mark
Does Jamaica Buses EVER plan to get Orion buses? I mean, i know Command is supposed to get the Orion V CNG buses from Gleason(what the number will be, and when i dont know). Maybe Triboro needes them more. Have you seen what the express Orion buses look like from Triboro? Scratches and missing pieces (in the back, the odd color is gray). Whats the deal?
Sounds like they got something in common with LI Bus. They use these gray pieces in place of broken or cracked rear corners (by the tailights) on many of the older (Cummins) Orion CNG's and even a few diesel Orions.
They must've been in accidents or something and they are too cheap to get the bus body fix properly.
Shame to hear about those lovely Orions at Triboro getting beat up. I remember what a nice fast smooth ride I had on the Q53 from the Rockaways. And they use the Series 50G, so the engine ran fine.
If Command is getting the Orion CNG's from Gleason, will they keep the old Cummins L10G engines in them?
I would say yes since Command's TMC RTS have the Cummins L10G.
Peace,
Kevin
Here's a weird site for ya:
Enjoy!
Q47#3025Gary
PS I don't think Jamaica will ever see Orions in their depot.
[Does Jamaica Buses ever plan to get Orions buses?]
The "private" carriers don't "plan" on which buses to get; they get whatever the NYC Department of Transportation gives them. DOT owns the buses, so DOT decides where they go.
[The "private" carriers don't "plan" on which buses to get; they get whatever the NYC Department of Transportation gives them. DOT owns the buses, so DOT decides where they go.]
To a large extent he is correct, i.e. the seven "private" companies have some input into what nycDOT plans for bus purcheses (they meet with them on a regular basis), but the final decision is DOT's.
Re: Orion CNG distribution: Queens Surface has a high speed CNG filling station, Command has a smaller one, Triboro's is even smaller AND they don't have any more room OUTSIDE to park CNG's (their garage isn't explosion proof). The other point is that TA-Gleason wouldn't be giving new CNGs to Jamaica for two reasons: One it would be a TA/DOT transfer; Two they don't have a filling station (they could be authorized to fill up at QSC, but that would be a hassle for them).
Mr t__:^)
Been noticing on the Q104 that some signs on their buses have corrected this error:
Q104 11AV & 34 AV
Astoria
They now say: Q104 11ST & 34 AV
Astoria
But saw 476 Q104 today-said 11Av and 34 Av Astoria.
Q104#476Gary
I also noticed one Orion on a northbound Q34 had signs saying:
149 &
Q34
WILLETS PT BL
It's nice that QS is finally fixing those signs.
Yo Gary ! Good eyes !
I saw maint. "updating" the Destination Sign module, but never got aroud to ask why .... now I know.
Mr t__:^)
Thanks Thurston. I saw 518 on the QM1 with a different looking sign but couldn't tell what it said cause it zipped by me on Union Tpke. I'll know the next time I see her. BTW: 518 was heading Eastbound heading towards Glen Oaks/Fresh Meadows.
Hello, there. Does anyone know where the M116 was based before Amsterdam Depot (prior to 3/29/98)? Was it ever in Manhattanville, or, possibly, 100th St.)
I don't remember if it is out of 126th Street now or before Amsterdam. I think it was out of 100th Street
Well it couldn't have been 126 St as it's a TA terminal and the 116 is a MABSTOA line.
transitbuff: M116 used to be in old 100th st Depot early 80s than went to Amsterdam Depot untill 1998 i think & now Manhattanville Depot. Also when the new 100th St Depot open late 2001 & M116 will go back to new 100th St Depot. It only the rumor.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
www.geocities.com/justin2669/NYCTransiTrans.html
History:
1. The M116 started its life as New York Omnibus route #20, and kept that number even after takeover by Fifth Avenue Coach (which had its own #20 on 57th Street) and creation of MABSTOA.
2. In the late 1960's or early 1970's, it became the M20 and ran out of the old 132nd Street garage until it closed in the 1980's. After that, it ran out of Amsterdam, 146th, then Amsterdam again until just a couple of years ago. It was redesignated M116 in the early 1990's as part of a "program" of mnemonic (the "m" is silent) numbers for Manhattan crosstowns.
3. The M116 is now at 126th Street - yes, it WAS swapped from OA to TA. Road reliefs are at 116th Street & Frederick Douglass Blvd; drivers use a swing room formerly used by M10 drivers.
BTW: Notice that the M116 was New York Omnibus #20, M57 was Fifth Avenue Coach #20, both bacame MABSTOA routes, and both are now TA routes.
-----
Rumors:
It's W-A-Y too soon to say whether the M116 will ever go back to MABSTOA. Anything can happen, and sometimes does....
Saw her at Queens Center Mall this morning with QV Decals on her. Looks like another GH Transfer in effect. More to come I'm assuming. She was on the Q88.
Q88#4484Gary
Add 4499 to the QV Roster also. Saw her on the Q46 Limited tonight.
Q46#4499Gary
Isn't it ironic QV had there predecessors with the same #'s(as 1968 GM New Looks fishbowls w/suburban seating
QV fishbowls had most of the lower 4400's for their local runs. I've also noticed resurrected bus numbers used at FP; 4100's for the 1969 Flx New Looks and also used on the 1985 RTS's, as one example. BTW, the 43/4400 fishbowls were 1970 models.
They also used the upper 4400's for ther locals -I still remember getting 4496 or 97 on the Q88 in June of 83 or 84 .And QV used them on the school runs in the afternoon also
Right. The same thing at Stengel (with RTS 4448 in service - and its predecessor 4448 that was in service there in the 70's).
As was JAM, with RTS 4346-4356 and predecessors 4346-4356.
Mark
Actually those were 1970 T6H-5305A's. Buses 4475(?)-4499, for the most part ran in Brooklyn and Staten Island. QV didn't receive any of these except for a couple very late in their careers. Buses 4482 and 4483 ring a bell to me.
If you want to talk predecessors QV again had 1970 fishbowls, 4324-4345 (and then some). Also, fishbowl 4429 ran out of that depot as well. There's your history for you.
Mark
It's funny that you mention 4482. I was just looking at that picture from Joe Testagrose's collection when it was running in SI on what was then the R107. 4482 spent its last days I think at FP when the Grummans were taken out of service.
It did ,caught it on the B58 afew times (I think they had 4470-4483)
Bus #4943 was involved in a bus accident today on Hillside Avenue, 15 Adults and 8 Kids Injured.
More Details Later On.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Details:
Elderly man driving car jumps the sidewalk in Hollis, just after 3pm on Hillside Avenue. Word is he lost control of the vehicle. The car plowed into the Bus stop injuring 22 people, ages ranging from years old to 20 years old. 2 people have already been released from the hospital, the other 20 remain as of this moment.
Bus #4943 was not directly involved, but showed up just after the accident and #4912 followed suit, there was also a third bus on the scene but number is unknown.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
More details in Tuesday's Times.
More details and small photo in Tuesday's Daily News.
There were no busses involved in this accident
I stated that in the detailed post. DING!
Trevor Logan
In the "detailed" post you stated that #4943 was "not directly involved in the accident", implying that it was indirectly involved.
In the subject line of the post you implied that it was involved in the accident when, in fact, it wasn't. BLING! 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
That's not what I was implying, don't put words into my mouth. Ask me what do I mean, don't imply, then try to correct me.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Hello. As you may remember, I asked all of you what your favorite currently manufactored buses were. Well, based on you interests and mine, I have made a bus roster for the magnificent system, LTS (http://www.expage.com/lts) All of these buses are 2000 models.
15 Novabus RTSs
45 Novabus LFSs
45 New Flyer D40LFs
55 Orion Vs
55 LTS specialty made (by me) Low floor mini-buses
90 30ft specialty made (by me) standard floor buses
85 40ft specialty made (by me) standard floor buses
All of these vehicles include a voice announcement, vehicle locator systems, and radios as well as clocks and the display sign announcing the stops. They have front and back doors, except for the mini-buses. The novabuses serve the city district, as well as most of the Orions. The New Flyers and most of the specialty buses operate in the suburbs. Now, do you have any suggestions to change any of this information, or where the buses should be located, or how many of each bus should be in the LTS bus fleet?
HEY, WHAT ABOUT SOME REMANED FLXIBLES!
Trevor Logan
I told you, only brand new currently manufactored buses. Besides,remaned buses aren't as good as brand new ones.
Now that's a mis-statement, In-house remaned buses suck! But when you send buses out to places like Midwest Bus and Complete Coach Works, you get back a way better bus. Prime example, the In-house 7000s are bad business, but those Midwest 7500s are the best buses in the fleet with Series 92s. They are fast, responsive, and have GREAT pick up.
I'd have a bus remaned before buying anything new, the only thing worth buying new is a New Flyer or a MCI and maybe the NABI Buses.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I'd agree with the flyers and the NABIs. The Orions and Novabuses and others aren't really that great in my opinion, no offense to people that really really like them. Also, MCIs are great, but is it really worth getting a remaned bus from another company? LTS is suppose to be about brand-new stuff, not reformed junk (I don't mean Flxibles are junk, just that they would be second hand since they aren't manufactored anymore). However, maybe Transit-Rider, the bus company that serves eastern Goodworth and the eastern suburbs would be interested, since they are only running GMC RTSs right now. Also, they might be able to use the Novabus RTSs too (they are crazy about RTSs).
It also depends on which year the bus is. Metro D's through E's would be good if they were remaned, but everything older isn't good.
I don't get it. Was there an original route layout? The text shows changes in routes? Could anyone explain what it is about? Either email me NFI857@aol.com or post on Bus Talk.
All right all BusTalkers! It is election day, and we on BusTalk must cast our ballots. On the ballot in the states of SubTalk and BusTalk, we have elections for senators and representatives in Massachussetts, Connecticut, New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and New Jersey. On the other side of the ballot, we vote for the best subway cars, buses, general managers, and systems. In the states of SubTalk and BusTalk, you merely need a handle and password to vote, so those of you unregistered voters are invited to get a handle and password today! The polls should close at 11:59 PM EST Tuesday Night. Please remember to do both sides of the ballot!
SubTalk Election 2000
Who do you want to win the Presidental Election? Choices listed Presidental Candidate/Vice Presidential Candidate.
Who do you want to win the New York Senate Seat?
and more ....
Current Results
SubTalk Election 2000 Part II
Who is the President of NE Transportation?
What current NYC car should be sent to preside in the Supreme Subway Court? This is what you would say when at the Railfan Window.
and more ....
Current Results
Can't wait until this is all over.
I dealt with the World Series, you can deal with politics. Just get in the conversation and enjoy it.
Off Topic is off Topic, if it isn't transit related I don't want to spend time opening it up, finding out I don't want to read it and moving on.
Does anyone know if there are any MTA or NJT bus lines that cross between Jersey and Staten Island?
Michalovic
There are 3 routes from Staten Island to Jersey City and Bayonne; 2 are rush hour only express runs, the third is a local run that I have to say I have never seen. All 3 are run by an NJT contract operator. The TA has two routes that go via NJ to Midtown, but do not stop in NJ.
-Hank
What are those 3 routes? I never heard of it.
B61 Leonard
I'm going strictly from memory, as I don't have time to look things up right now. I believe someone operates a route 144 from Staten Island over the Bayonne Bridge to Exchange Place, Newport and, perhaps, further north in the rush hours only. Trans-Hudson Express has a #55 route to Staten Island from Bayonne, Jersey City and the PABT, but I think there is only one round-trip in the morning rush hour. I can't remember what the 3rd route might be.
The 144 is reverse pickup down Richmond Ave (Pm towards Hylan, opposite of NYCTA).
My friend Gary just told me that he just borught this bus from NJ to Ulmer Park. So I guest that Ulmer Park are getting some 2001 MCI after all.
Robert
we have received 50 2001 mci buses at yukon 2705-2754. evidently the balance will go to ulmer park.
And Drivers have yet to be trained on these busses.
How much training did Staten Island Drivers go through before they could operate these busses.
Also, did you find it hard to go from an MCI bus one day to NOVA or ORION the next day. I know this seems like it could be a problem
Shaun
Saw auction 491643614 on E-bay. It's a window display model from one of their terminals. The seller says the man who had the item said it came from the Cleveland Bus Terminal. The seller says that the item is over 45 y/o since the terminal closed in 1955. However it looks like an MC-8, although the front is rounded not squared which didn't go into production until 1973. It's a huge item almost 2 1/2 feet long. Am I right on my ID of the bus ?????
Note : I am in no way connected to the seller.
You're absolutely right on the bus being an MC-8.
It's also one of the hollow-bottom ones, look at the mid-body warping. I've also seen some solid ones, when I worked at East Coast Parlor Car Tours there was one at their downtown D.C. office.
A friend of mine asked me if I could paint a similar model of a 102D3 in the company colors where he works. I said, "Sure, bring it over!" WOW!! The one he brought over was FOUR FEET LONG, solid urethane casting, and weighed about FIFTY POUNDS! I kid you not! (That was about the size of the one at ECPCT, by the way. Would have given my left nut to get it.)
I think it took about a quart of paint (thinned 50-50 at that...) and about four rolls of masking tape to finish. It came out really nice! (It's in the now-gone colors of California Charters of Long Beach, California....)
Anybody know if any company is making new toy buses for 2001>? I mean, Road Champs made the Flexible buses, and we all know about the RTS and the MCI buses, but is anything NEW comning out in HO scale for 2001? I'm a bus collector in HO scale and trying to find some.
All I can say is.....Lotsa Luck!
The scale bus model market is NOT a very big one, believe it or not. When something does come out, it is usually made in one run of about 100,000 pieces and that is it. I'd venture to guess 99% of the stuff is made in China nowadays.
Don't count on Road Champs to make anything new. They were bought by a company in Malibu, California. And as always, they are NOT responsive to any requests, suggestions. They NEVER answer e-mail, whether it be a question or even a compliment. Toy retailers all complain about their non-responsiveness to orders, etc. They ship what they want, when they want. But they sell enough of the 1/43 scale police cars in various agencies' paint schemes to make wheelbarrows full of profits, so I doubt if they will do any more buses.
The other thing, too, with most everything being produced in China...there are never any "announcements" that anything is coming. They produce things as they have dies available, and then shipping of toys, being a low-priority commodity in most cases, is the proverbial "slow boat". Look at how in the past year all the HO-scale GM fishbowls showed up -- no warning. All of a sudden they were there. The RTS's made by the same company didn't show up on the west coast, yet I know a lot of people on the east coast who were able to procure them.
The larger scale stuff? Look at Corgi. They were producing around 5,000 of each of the versions of the GM fishbowls when they first started marketing them in 1996. By 1998, about 3,500 of each wound up in merchandise liquidation outfits (such as Tuesday Morning stores)at approximately 40 cents on the dollar to the consumer, so wholesalers got a lot less. I bought most of my collection this way, as prices of $19.95 down to $9.95, on buses that originally listed at $50.00 upwards. (I did have an "inside source" at Tuesday Morning who told me how many of each type they bought, so that's where the 3,500 figure being liquidated comes from.) Nowadays, Corgi (who had been bought out by a Hong Kong outfit) produces only 1,500 of each version; they have dropped the retail price, and they become very hard to find in short time. Try and find an LAMTA TDH5303 or the Trailways SDH5302 in stores nowadays....get 'em when they come in or hunt and pay through the nose on eBay!
Caine824, I'm assuming you only collect USA/ Canadian stuff. We are at a deficit here. The Europeans have it all together, hands down. Those toy manufacturers over there just keep 'em coming. Mostly plastic, mostly HO. And mostly high in price.
joe c.
Can anyone help me find retail outlets that carry these things? I'm kicking myself for not buying a bunch of cheap remaindered Road Champs Flxibles at a liquidator outlet store in upstate New York about three years ago, and am still looking for a store that sells toy buses. Toys'R'Us and K-B locations that I've been to don't have them, and the only decent hobby shop in the DC area (the train store at Union Station) recently closed. Any leads on where to find buses of any description?
Thanks in advance.
Chris
FAO Schwartz sometimes carries them, but of course, they will be a little more expensive there than at KB or Toys R Us. A couple of years ago, I bought two different four packs of Road Champs at this huge Toys R Us at Fair Lakes Mall in Fairfax, VA. Not sure if they still carry them or not. It was about $15 at that time. Also, keep an eye out for train shows that come to town, you will sometimes find them there. I went to this huge show in Timonium, MD last January and they had a ton of buses. I think the show will be back again soon.
How familiar are you with the New York City area? And how much are you looking to spend?
In North White Plains, Collector's Station carries several toy buses of varying sizes, shape and material (plastic, die cast). Also, in Mineola, NY, there is Willis Hobbies. Once again, high prices, various stuff. And probably the place with the MOST bus models and the HIGHEST prices is in Manhattan. Classic Toys on Sullivan Street, I believe. That is in the west village, about two blocks east of 6th Ave. at the west 4th street subway stop. If you want lots of nice looking double decks and single decks from Europe mostly, this is the place. They do have some Roadchamp buses, as they stock the police car line as well.
Then there are the street vendors and Korean gift outlets that dot the streets of the city. Mostly all the same stuff, Chinese die casts, but you never know.
JoeC
I'm pretty familiar with New York -- thanks for the pointers. The next time I'm up there I'll definitely check out Classic Toys.
Not sure how much I'll want to spend, but I'll start with the Flxibles and work my way up!
Thanks so much for the tips. I printed out your message to save it for future reference.
Thanks also to 1C/B for the K-B Toys and train show tips. I've been meaning to go to that big one in Timonium ... sounds like an absolute treasure trove!
Chris
I know it probably doesn't matter, or it's inaccessible, you could always order some flxibles fromt the Philadelphia Transit Museum. They also have collectors edition buses.
If you go to www.septa.com, you can order a Road Champs Flxible by mail. I don't think SEPTA ever had Flxible Metros, so its kind of odd to see one with SEPTA colors.
Good luck with your search. I'm so happy they finally have buses that aren't either cheesy looking school buses or some kind of fake looking airport bus. I have a whole cabinet full of GM Fishbowls and Flxible Metros in my apartment. I may have to get a second one if it gets any larger!
If I hear anything about the train show in Timonium, I'll post it on here.
Glad to help out. I'm a collector, big time, although I'm scaling my purchases down. More descriminating collecting, I guess.
Roadchamps has started re-issuing the same Flxibles, in blister packs.
Toy shows are usually good for stuff. The Timonium show earlier this year was terrific, for all types of transit materials. I had a ball and spent a bundle. The Gathersgurg (?) show last week was not all that great, surprisingly. It was a rage last time they had it.
I was sorry to hear the shop in Union Stn (DC)closed.
Looking forward to the White Plains toy show in December; it is usually a good one.
Rgds,
Joe C.
saw #4717 on the B1 last night headed to Manhattan Beach. This was a UP orignally, then to Gleason, then back to UP. Also saw #4716 on the B64 SAturday night. Did UP lose more local buses to ge these buses, or is it temporary loan? Whats the story?
Bus 4717 was moved to UP from Gleason back in September, along with 4715 and 4716. Check out the transittalk website's bus roster.
Mark
Bus 4716 went from JG to the East New York Base Shop for engine work last month. From there it went on to Ulmer Park.
Mark
A real left-of-center question here...
I remember that Stengel (then Flushing) had a small delivery of the Grumman 870's (I think the bus numbers were in the 340-350 range).
They were pulled - once - for structural problems - then returned - then pulled permanently.
The second time they were pulled - Stengel/Flushing began getting the first RTS buses (1267-1272, 1510-1535 or so). But the first time they were pulled - I know Manhattan got some Washington DC Metro buses - but what 'old NYCTA stock' replaced the Grummans at Stengel/Flushing.
I really don't remember...
Thanks folks in advance if you know.
Flx 7595
From the top of my head, FLU (now Casey Stengel) had Grummans PA80-82, and 340-355. RTS's at Flushing were 1267-1272, 1515-1534. Around 1982 or 1983, the TA had Grumman depots and RTS depots. QV was designated as a Grumman depot and Flushing's 18 Grummans went there, along with 11 from Jamaica (PA83-85 and 356-363). I believe it went womething like this:
PA83-85, 356-363 (11) JAM to QV
1545-1559 (15) QV to JAM
1273-1275 (3) JAM to FLU
PA80-82, 340-355 (18) FLU to QV
1276-1282, 1560-1568 (16) QV to FLU
I hope that helps, if anyone can add to this or offer corrections, please let me know.
Mark
Thanks Mark. That info was greatly appreciated.
One question though - weren't these switches taking place when the Grummans returned to service after the first recall - then the switch happened and then they got pulled for good? What happened the first time.
The only thing I remember - and I'm probably wrong - is some 20xx or 71xx's... replaced the Grummans...
I think the year was 1980 or 1981 when they first were pulled.
heck i might as well ask this too - when FLU got the Grumman's the first time - what 18 buses got pulled out of service? I think it was 4442-4454 but that's a guess.. Or was it 7590-7604?
Thanks again Mark - and to anyone and everyone else.
flx 7595 (I hope it wasn't this bus that got pulled for a Grumman!)
I'm no expert on Queens, but the NYCTA started creating Grumman 870 and RTS after the Grummans were returned to service.
Flushing had 2000 (GMC TDH-5301) and 7100 (Flxible 53102-6-1) before the Grumman 870's were delivered. I think the 4400 (GMC T6H-5305A) were sent to QV before the Grumman 870's were delivered.
Wayne
Correction: Grumman and RTS depots.
Wayne
I read NYCTA ordered 1,013 Grumman 870's and the order was subsequently cancelled. But then, I heard they pulled 850 from service permantly.
Had 850 been delivered and they wanted 1,000 more or were the first 850 part of the 1,000 being delivered. Either way, that was alot of Grummans.
I always suspected the 1,013 number included both the NYCTA and DOT privates' Grumman 870's. I've heard 3 sizes. The first was 837 buses. When they were pulled from service the first time I heard that "all 637 buses were grounded". This made sense as the 870's with wheelchair lifts (TA 400-500 series, OA 810-910) had not been delivered. The lift equipped buses were delivered after the other buses returned to service. When the TA pulled the 870's the last time I heard it was 851 buses. I suspected this included the all 837 TA/OA 870's plus the extra 870's (which were model 53096-8-1) that were supposed to go to the Ave B-E. Bway Co, but were used by the TA in Staten Island express service.
Wayne
Anytime FLX 7595!! When the original 18 G'mans arrived at Flushing, I believe the remaining 1961-63 fishbowls were deep-sixed. I recall FLU having ex-Jamaica's, 2105-2107, 2111, 2113, 2137, 2145, 2147, 2151(now a Castleton museum bus), 2160-2161, as well as some ex-Brooklyn 3600's. The high numbered 4400's went to QV when the depot opened in 1974.
Jamaica got rid of some very low numbered 1961 fishbowls: 1041, 1059(kept as a museum bus and is still in JAM to this day), 1074, 1107, 1126.
By the way, I recall FLU having some low numbered 9000's from Fifth Avenue Depot (now Gleason). I think 9021-9035 if I'm not mistaken, ran there for about 6 months.
Mark
Thanks again Mark. Forgot about the 21xx's in Flushing. I know they had some 20xx's that were ready to die.
Did the 44's leave in 1974? That early? I thought it was the later 1970's.
Actually - I was on an Orion tonight (637) that sounded like she was going to die. It was going no faster than 10mph and the engine was full blast - And I was sitting in the back.
I know Jamaica had low numbered buses. I recall once seeing a green bus with 17xx or 19xx - and it had air conditioning. But I don't recall any of those numbered buses with air conditioning. Did they?
The fishbowls JAM had with air conditioning were the 1970 T6H-5305A's, 4342-4391.
Mark
I thought so. But I could have sworn - nah...
I was young then. Didn't know all my numbers :)
one's look like 4's on Green buses!
Jamaica also had some earlier air-conditioned buses: 1966 model 5303A's. I recollect the numbers were 8041-8080. These may have gone somewhere else when the 1970 buses came in, but I'm not positive.
When the 1970 models arrived at Jamaica, 8041-8080 went to Crosstown. At the same time, 8001-8040 from Flushing(CS) went to Fresh Pond.
That matches up with the picture I saw on the website of a bus on Roosevelt Avenue (#8007) from 1970 or 1971 (NY License plate were still dark blue or black). I think its the Q14 (Whitestone) line.
Was 8001-8040 originally given to flushing (CS) or did it come from somewhere else. Usually the "wing" ads were a Manhattan staple in the 1970's and early early 1980's.
flx7595
Here is what I remember of the original assignments for the wingbat buses:
5516-5525 originally in Manhattan (Mabstoa)
6701-6900 (may have been 6700-6899) originally in Manhattan (Mabstoa)
8001-8040 originally in Flushing
8041-8080 originally in Jamaica (there was no Queens Village back then)
8081-8122 originally in Flatbush
8123-8202 originally at 126th Street
8301-8375 were split 25 buses each to the three then existing Bronx depots
8376-8790 all over Manhattan (Mabstoa)
8801-89?? (the buses in the middle of this series had wingbats) were split between Ulmer Park and Staten Island.
I believe you were right the first time, 6701-6900. Also I think the highest 8700 was 8780. The 8800's with wings were 8829-8878.
Was the Q44A(Q46)Union Tpke out of Jamaica? One ad I remember used on that route was for the Merv Griffin Show moving to channel 5, "Merv's Back", with his photo.
Before the opening of Queens Village depot, the Q44A (now Q46) Union Turnpike route operated out of Flushing depot. I remember seeing the first fishbowl in the 6200 series on the Q44A. That route also frequently had bus #6948, one of the two 6900 series with transit seating.
So, the Q44A was Flushing before QV, thanks. Also, yes, FLU had the lower 6200's when they arrived. I used to see 6948 running around the FLU routes. One day I saw it running along Metropolitan Ave. I'm not sure if FP had it for a short while or it might have been used on a school run out of FLU.
what are wingbats?
Actually "Batwings" or officially called Busoramas which were roof billboard advertisments that had flourecent lighting behind the ads and illuminated at night. Check some of the pictures in Joe Testagrose's collection at this website.
These buses also had the destination signs on the driver side as well as the passenger side of the bus.(the side sign that is)
[...destination signs on the driver side as well as the passenger side...]
I seem to remember the side sign being the center portion of the curb-side advertising "wing", directly over the exit door. On some buses, those signs were removed and the panel incorporated into the advertising.
[...original assignment of wingbat buses...]
I seem to remember the following twists on the wingbat assignment:
1. 5516-5525 had standee windows, which were covered over by the wings.
2. 6700 (at 146th St Depot) had a rooftop blister and NO wings.
3. A few of the 8400s had high-bach soft seats for the X23.
4. A few of the winged 8800's were Flushing for the X51.
5. Two non-GMC fishbowls also had wings at one point: #7753 (a Flxible) and #107 (a Grumman 870).
Mabstoa's and the TA's were different. Beside the seat colors (grey vs blue-green), the side destination signs differed. Mabstoa's was more a 'route' designation ("via...), while the TA's was a destination ("to...).
In addition Mabstoa toyed with one 5303 in the 3400 series about 1964. It, too, had the standee windows covered. This was a precursor to the 5500's that came in a year later. The high Mabstoa 6000's had an interior space where the standee window should have been; the 8000's had the interior ad panels repositioned to cover that space up.
Joe C
[. Two non-GMC fishbowls also had wings at one point: #7753 (a Flxible) and #107 (a Grumman 870).]
You're correct about #7753 (a 1975 Flxible 53102-6-1), but the Grumman Flxible 870 was #631 that was originally assigned to 132nd Street depot.
6700 served most of it's years at Coliseum.
A few of the 8300's from Kingsbridge and Amsterdam were converted to express buses late in their lives and assigned to Kingsbridge for the X61. Some of them were 8370, 8372, 8373, 8375 and 8376.
Wayne
My photo of Grumman 631 appeared in an early (1979-80) issue of Bus World. Take a look-see.
Joe C
Where would that be? On line? In print?
Thanks,
Flx7595
I'm noy sure if Bus World is on-line. But you could try. They are in print, but I don't know how their archives/ back issues are. The mag just ain't what it used to be.
Joe C
Joe,
You're right. I think that since MAK Publishing bought Bus World it went way down hill.
Wayne
I can't verify this, but I heard from a friend that Bus World is now defunct. Evidently, he had not received a new issue for quite a while, and when he inquired about it, he learned they weren't publishing any more. I haven't subscribed in a few years, after it went from a bus fan magazine to another trade publication.
I had gone to their website and there was no longer a Bus World link. When Ed Stauss sold it to MAK publishing I was really disappointed. The quality articles were suddenly gone and even though they started publishing it monthly with more pages - it was filled with advertising. I agree with you - it definitely became more of a trade publication. There's only about 6 issues from the Stuass ear that I don't have, but I'll sure cherish those that I do have.
Wayne
I just flipped through that issue the other day.
It was mentioned that 8370 was coverted to soft seats is true.This bus finished up it career at QV in the mid 80's I don't think it was Blitz covert(it was used as a rush extra on the Q17A and Q31 mainly)as for the 8800's at FLU, the were also used on the Q44VP and Q44B( these were in the 8820-8830's range with the low soft seats not the high ones.
Was looking at the TransitTalk Depot list. Saw a lo out of service for Stengel:
Out of Service: 268, 273, 274, 285, 289, 301, 305, 998--all at College Point
@ Base Shop: 261(repower), 270(repower), 283(repower), 290(repower)--all @207St; 634(@ENY)
@ Atlantic Diesel: 295(repower), 296(repower), 297(repower), 299(repower), 300(repower), 303, 571, 996, 997.
Why (with the exception of 301) ar all those Orions out of service? 273 and 274 got new lights and painted not too long ago?
What does 'repower' mean? Does it mean re-paint? I just saw 290 today on the 44 - with no signs and a fresh coat of paint and new lights. The engine sounded the same.
thanks.
flx7595
Repower refers to the 6V-92TA to Series 50 IV engine conversion that the Orions are supposedly undergoing. If you saw 290 back, with the same engine, then I guess it wasn't done. You of course know that 290 and 298 are the only two in the 290-299 group to be delivered with a 6V92TA engines. The others have either Series 50 (291-294) or Cummins C8.3 engines (295-297, 299-300).
You could have seen 290 with a Series 50 and thought it always one...I'll look into it and post back.
Mark
Those Cummins engines need to go. I was on 295 a few weeks ago - and the whole thing shook at stops. The engine sounds nice, but really hurts the ride. I felt I was on an amusement park ride.
so if it gets the new engine - 290 loses the middle seat in the back, right? I always mix this up. I think the only ones without middle seats are 291-294. 290, 295-300 all have the middle seats (for now). Most 200 and 300 Orions have the middle seat.
So all these re-powered ones will lose that middle seats.
Well repower means that they are getting new engines. The buses with original 6V-92 are getting rebuilt 6V-92 engines (series 50 engines in some, but due to layout it is expensive and difficult in the older Orions). The buses with Cummins engines should all be getting either rebuilt 6V-92 or Series 50.
Glad to see there will be no more Cummins Orions out there at least!
There has been a rumor that the TA is sending 5 Orion CNG 's to Command. This is not true. The TA is sending 3 RTS that are CNG to Command because they can use the current CNG fuel station which is currently in use at Gleason.
Since Command has RTS CNG's they are being shipped there
Thank You
This is bad news for Command. On the flip slide my source at Command told me Command may receive a few transit version Orions from Queens Surface as well. Only time will tell.
Peace,
Kevin
transitworld.org
For the past two-three days, I've seen GBL 5503 a few times. Each time the eye-catching Ballios orange LED destination sign has been dark. I guess it has fallen victim to a lack maintenance or neglect.
it appears nyct will add service to the south shore effective with the pick of 1/2001. two lines will reportedly be created. in addition routes 44,59,74 and 78 will be moved to castleton. this will be the culmination of years of effort on the part of atu 726. others have complained about equipment in other boroughs. what has your union done about it. we have stood on the steps of city hall and held rallies on weekends to demand more service and better equipment. the three dollar fare came about thanks to larry hanley. so if you want improvements this is what you and your union can do.
Why will they move those routes, two of which get nowhere near CAS? Is it because of where the buses are? Because we all know that CAS doesn't have the room, either. There was a surveyor crew this morning on the ROW of the Korean War Vets Pkwy in the immediate vicinity of AK. Perhaps they are considering adding space to the lot?
-Hank
castleton has recently added space by annexing an adjacent piece of property. most likely those four routes will all be pullouts to the st george ferry terminal except for 59 which terminates near that d epot.
To Hudson,
I read in your previous post about NYCT considerning adding two new South Shore express buses possibility in January 2001. If that is true, where will these two express routes operate on the South Shore using what streets, avenues ir roads, it's express numbers that they will be using & where will they operate to in Manhattan.
Please post information on bustalk.
i will post it as soon as i know.
To Hank,
In your post, you indicated that inspectors were looking at the ROW of the Korean War Vets Pkwy at Richmond Av & Arthur Kill Rd. I would like to know if they are going to use that ROW to add buses, if so, when will this lot be ready for the buses.
Please post on bustalk.
Saw WMATA Orion II in tow on Western Ave NW this afternoon, apparently having broken down (I saw no collision damage). Those O-IIs are not really well-suited to being towed; the damage that it appeared to be sustaining from the tow apparatus was probably worse than whatever minor mechanical malady put it out of service. The front bumper was bent upwards and the entire engine cover/proboscis was pushed up by the force of the belt part of the tow linkage. Maybe Metro should invest in some new wreckers with flat-tow capacity (the wrecker being used today was a Holmes 750 winch/body on an International chassis).
Also, I saw my first refurbished 4000-series Metro-D today, 4071. I really preferred the old paint scheme; the new scheme doesn't work as well on the Metro-Ds as it does on the Metro-Bs. It looked subtly different from the repainted Northern Virginia Metro-Ds (9800s) that I've seen; did they do anything differently that anyone has noticed?
Final item: the paint scheme on the Orion IIs appears to have undergone a running change during the order's fulfillment. Next time you have a chance, take a look at the headlamp-bezel paint treatment on the higher-numbered Orion IIs (3741, the last one, is the example I noticed) and compare it with those of the low-numbered units (e.g. 3701, 3703, 3717, etc.). The low-numbers have the entire headlamp array surrounded with the blue paint, including the parking lamp, whereas the high-numbers have the parking lamp surrounded in body-color white, with the blue paint ending at the headlamps in a rounded corner. It's arcane, sure, but it does give the buses a slightly different appearance. Dunno; _I_ thought it was interesting ... ;)
Chris
I haven't seen the refurbished 4000's up close to really notice anything different. However, I have finally noticed that the 9700's that have been repainted have the one exhaust while I have noticed that the 9800's still have two exhausts as I saw on 9815 tonight. Not sure why some were changed to one while others kept two.
I am also seeing a lot of the destination signs on hte 8700 and 8800's that were repainted are looking as sad as the ones that have not been rehabbed. They are very hard to read and the flipdots seem to get stuck every now and then. I especially like seeing the buses that pull up with a destination sign that reads "###########", very nice work. Maybe they are playing a game in which each passenger guesses what is underneath the # and if they are right, they ride for free. Or, how about the ones that have one route number on the front, but the back has either a different route number, or the first three letters of the destinaton sign. Just bring back the manual signs that were on the New Looks and the Fishbowls.
4071 has been done for about a month now. I also saw it yesterday. 4097 has been refurbished/repainted also. I have gotten used to the new WMATA paint scheme although I think the Flxible Metros look better in the old scheme. One thing I don't like about the refurbished Metro D, E and many of the Metro B with the Cummins L-10 engine is the truck looking brake/tail/turning indicator lights on the engine access door. I can understand the move to LED lights, but those small round things really look very utilitarian. I think the original wrap around lights on the Flxible Metros look much better. I'm glad that WMATA hasn't removed them on the older Flxible Metro.
I'm not looking forward to seeing the NABI's in the new paint scheme either.
In other news. Yesterday during the PM rush hour there was an accident between one of Ride-On's new Orion V (5706) and a Acura TL. The bus was on route 16 and it was leaving the Silver Spring Metro and turning right onto Colesville Road. It appears that either the car tried to squeeze around the right side of the bus or the bus was attempting to pass the car. I'm guessing it was probably the latter because both Ride-On and WMATA buses are usually in the right lane as there's a bus stop immediately after they make the right turn onto Colesville Road.
Wayne
Where is Colesville road exactly? Is that by Silver Spring. Also, since when does route 16 get the new 40ft Orions? I thought they were still using the 30ft Gillig Phantoms. At least, I always see them during the day. Also, how bad was the accident anyway?
Colesville Road is in Silver Spring. It starts at 16th Street and heads in a north easterly direction. It becomes US Route 29 east of Georgia Ave. When you walk out of the metro station to the bus area Colesville Road is about 50 feet to your left. If you're familiar with the bus loading area at Silver Spring... The area where WMATA routes board/discharge passengers is parallel to Colesville Road. If you go to Yahoo and do a map search for "Colesville Road and Wayne Ave, Silver Spring, MD 20910" it'll give you an idea of how the area is layed out.
I've seen Ride-On's new 40 foot Orions on many of the lower county routes except those that use the Fords w/ the big box. The route 16 pretty much uses all of the buses that Ride-On uses in lower county. It seems that their runs cover different routes.
The accident wasn't very bad. They just sideswiped each other - the right side of the bus against the left side of the car. They stayed in the same spot so I could not see any damage, but I'm sure the car was still drivable and the bus probably got some scuff marks around the rub rail (and below) area.
Wayne
Wow. This reminds me of an accident that happened years ago when I was just a lad. When I was on the 16 and we were at Silver Spring, a car was parked and the bus stopped behind it. Well, the car backed into the bus. There wasn't really any damage, but the bus let us out where it had stopped.
Wasn't there a real bad bus accident on that traffic circle at Mass and Western Aves about 8, 10 years back?
I agree with you about the LEDs; I don't like them at all. They don't have the panache of those molded wraparound units. I like them better on the Metro-Bs, but for the Metro-Ds, it really messes things up.
Chris
I don't like them on any of them, whether they are metro B's or D's. The B's look odd with them, and out of place.
They work a little better with the B's, IMHO, because of the slant-back and the corresponding round lights therein. It looks congruent with the original. But in general, I hate the switch. Who does the overhauls, anyway? WMATA or some third party? Do they cut the holes in the existing sheetmetal or replace with a new door, replete with lamp assemblies?
Chris
I'm not sure who determined what type of tail lights go on the buses because its odd that every Flxible has the round LED lights,but the 8700-8900 Flxibles that have been rehabbed still have the original square lights on the back. I like them better.
I think Metro rehabs the buses in house at the Bladensburg lot because if you look at the right front panel near the front door, there is a little plaque on each bus showing a number it was given to have been redone. For example, 9781 might have #250 on the plaque to show that it was the 250th bus to be fixed up.
Right; I've noticed this rehabilitated bus plaque as well. I just recall hearing somewhere the phrase "Blitz refurbish," which made me wonder if a contractor did it.
Chris
Yeah, I know Blitz did a lot of refurbishing with GM Fishbowls. I remember a few years ago when I used to take the F2 from West Hyattsville to Cheverly, this one driver always had bus 3630, or if that wasn't available, one of the other Fishbowls. I never really talked to him because he always seemed to be either talking to someone else or just in some kind of zone, but I would talk to one of the other drivers that would always get a new Flxible at that time and said that he knew that some drivers preferred the Blitz GM's becuase they would haul pretty good. Personally, I preferred the Flxibles because I always sank so low in the Fishbowls, I could barely see out of the window, and I'm 5'10.
Really? I'd never noticed a difference in seat height -- I'd assumed they used the same type/height of seats. Of course, I'm 6'2" and it's been a while since I rode on one of them.
I always preferred the Fishbowls, I guess mainly for styling reasons. The Flxibles seemed like box-it-came-in clones. But that's just me.
Chris
I don't know what it was about the Fishbowl that made me feel like I sunk down so low, particularly in the seat by the square window in the middle of the bus. Maybe it was that they were on their last legs and the cushions were flat. I'm sure they probably are the same height as any of the other buses. I can still remember when they used to run around with the orange and green DC Transit seats.
The Flxibles, although like you said really boxy, for some reason looked so different when I first saw them in the mid 80's here that they instantly became my favorite. The very first one I saw was on the R12 in Greenbelt and I thought it was an AM General that had been rehabbed at first because they were still running at the time and it just kind of looked like it, only to find out it was this modern looking bus. I think the Flxible Metros are the buses that finally forced Metro to get rid of those awful AM Generals.
In their last days their acceleration didn't seem to be too impressive, but they were fast once they got going. I thought the new look Flxibles were fast also. I used to get them often on the Q2 and it was always a fun ride. Now that you mention it - the seats in the fishbowls did seem to be a bit low. I just like nearly everything about the fishbowls - especially the last generation. As the saying goes... All good things must come to an end.
Wayne
The Metrobus's 4000 Series Flxible METROs are not METRO-Ds those are METRO-Es:
Metro's METRO Fleet Info:
8700, 8800, 8900 Series are Late METRO-As & Early METRO-Bs
5100, 9200, 9300, 9400 Series are METRO-Bs
9300, 9400 Series are METRO-Ds
4000 Series are METRO-Es
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I've heard you assert that before, but to me they're still Metro-Ds. Next time I look at the build plate on one of them, I'll check it out and settle the debate. :)
Chris
I saw 4071 at Western Garage on October 1, click here for a picture.
'Evening fellows:
I've been following with great attention the developing conversation sparked by Basman's post about his fantasy Lego transit fleet (Does he actually have that entire fleet made of Legos? Last time I tried that, I only had enough bricks to build a fleet of five buses, all of which ended up resembling Phantoms and Neoplans. I even built an artic via the creative use of some hinged pieces.)
However, his fake fleet has attracted attention to what the optimal fantasy fleet would look like.
That's where I come in.
In August 1996, I obtained my first copy of APTA's Transit Vehicle Data Book. I was so inspired by the information offered therein and the format in which it was presented that I started a spreadsheet file of my own which contains an ever-growing inventory of fantasy transit fleets. Some of the fleets are potential remakes of actual transit systems, some are for fleets of fake transit systems for real areas, but the vast majority of my fantasy fleets are just that: nonexisting transit vehicles for nonexisting places. My fake systems range in size from a tiny three-bus operation to my largest fleet which has over 7800 buses. If any of you are familiar with APTA's book, my data appears in a nearly identical fashion. I also include fleet numbers of my vehicles. Since early 1997, I have made over 700 of these fake fleets contained in three very large spreadsheet files.
It is interesting to watch the evolution of my transit knowledge. In the earliest entries in Fakefleet 1.0, I had 1957 GMC T6H 5307A's. Today, I laugh at that. We all know that not only were New Looks not made until 1959, but the 5307 did not hit the streets until the early 1970's. I also enjoy watching the trends of the types of buses I used. When I started, I was still unsure about the fate of Flxible, so in the first 100 or so fleets, it is possible to see Flxs on order for model years well past 1995.
If anyone is interested, I can post some of my favorite fleet concoctions from my files, or if anyone's REALLY interested, I can email you my entire files.
Thanks,
Neil Greenberg
nagreenb@umich.edu
¡Que viva el subjuntivo!
well, you see, I don't really have enough lego pieces for about 200 buses-I really only have a 30ft specialty bus and a specialty mini-bus, as well as a trolley, high speed line car, and a van for the LTS "Night-Rider" and taxi service. However, hypothetically there would be that many buses for this system if it reallly did exist and those would be the buses I would use on my system. Also, why don't you post some of your favorite fleets (do you really have 700 fleets?).
Yes, I have somewhere between 600 and 750 fleets, probably totaling several hundred thousand vehicles. When I go home tomorrow, I will pull a few off the original two files and post them as samples.
Until then...
Also, I used to have a 40ft specialty bus and I used to have 2 25ft mini-big buses, but I took them apart in order to build the 30ft bus.
I am REALLY interested. I would like to see what your files look like. Can you e-mail them to me? As soon as I get mine onto the computer, I'll e-mail you mine.
B61 Leonard
Yeah, you guys should post these. I'd really be interested in seeing them. Are they for fictional cities?
And Basman, you should do your best to get photos of your buses online. I'll see if I have any luck sticking my Legos in the scanner ... ;)
Chris
I'll try to find a scanner. I took pictures of my newer buses, but I haven't developed the film yet, which is annoying. Anyway, I'll get them online one day. Also, jsut to warn all of you, remember how you say Orion's and Gillig's are boxy? Well, my Big bus is really a box, but hey, what can I do? These are legos that I'm builing with, you know. Also, LTS is for the western part and western suburbs of a fictional place called Goodworth (So good, it's worth it to move there)
Legos are notoriously difficult to render curved surfaces with. Luckily, buses are inherently boxy. Mine are all pretty boxy, too, but they're mostly original designs.
Looking forward to seeing your stuff!
Chris
did you model your buses after any real buses? I'm thinking about trying to build an Orion V one day.
I attempted a Metro-D, but I changed course halfway through and it became an original design. Hard to capture the proportions of the original, especially in the windows.
Chris
METROCARD & CARDHOLDERS COLLECTOR¹S CATALOG
This is an 8.5 inch x 11 inch 20 page booklet printed by the MTA. They later decided not to distribute it. It contains 20 glossy, color pages of actual size photos of 1997-99 commemorative MetroCards & cardholders. Full color photos of the Subway Series 97, Then and Now, Emigrant, JVC Jazz, Healthy City, Ferry Boat, Yankees 98, Subway Cool, Millennial Journeys, Mets International Week plus 63 Cardholders including the complete Great Subway series. All photos are actual size & full color! A beautiful collector¹s MUST HAVE. The supply is very limited. When they are gone, they are gone.
Send $10.00 ea.+ $2. P & H in check or Money Order
Made out to MICHAEL MAKMAN.
To: Prof. Putter
Po Box 755
Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
Mike, We've seen your adv. a couple of times now, those that wanted it bought it (like me) ... enough already.
Mr t__:^)
An article in Thursday's Star-Ledger discusses overcrowding on rush-hour trains and buses into Manhattan. Year ended last June 30 found 16,500 daily standees on buses and 6000 on trains on the Corridor, Coast, and Midtown Direct lines. The overcrowding is expected to get worse before improving.
Saw the Nov issue of Transit Transit last night on Public Access TV.
The "theme" this month is Subway Series. At Shea Andy is a Yankee, and Ozzi is a Met. Incl. a tailgate party in the parking lot.
Also: shots of #4 & #7 wrapped cars
- Mid Town Tunnel is 60 years old
- Virgal & Larry thank specific employees for suggestions
- 2 new bus depots & a bus maint shop under constr.
- Bus festival, incl. insides of some old buses
- Giants/Jets MetroCards
Mr t__:^)
The "trade" publication, Metro Magazine has an article in the Sept/Oct issue "10 Most Respected Transit Managers in No. Am." by Leslie Davis.
Our very own John Walsh of NYCT makes the list. He's Chief Maintenance Officier Dept. of Buses & has worked for the TA for 20 years. Here's a quote I found interesting "We are very proud of our fleet in New York. Proud of how it looks, how it operates and the equipment" ... "Appearance is absolutely important to me."
The group wasn't ranked, i.e. 1,2,3,4, etc., all I'll say is that he wasn't the first or last to be listed, if that means anything. He was the only one with a B & W photo, don't know what that means either.
Copyright Disclaimer: I've identified the publication and author and quoted less then 400 words.
Mr t__:^)
Either today or yesterday, 11/8, 1746, the bus in Jamaica depot that everybody (including myself) loves to hate, was finally yanked from service and the farebox removed. It is now waiting to have the radio removed. 1740 is still in service but my feeling is that it will be pulled from service any day now also. So, all you 1982 RTS fans better get one last ride quickly because they will all probably be retired by the end of this month. (Good riddance!)
BIG AL
P.S. Ok, I'll admit I will miss the no interlock rear doors on them.
sniff...
Well, they are ex-Flushing buses, you know. :)
I guess 1746 goes to scrap now. Haven't kept up with what made it the bus in JAM that people loved to hate. It did well in Flushing - decades ago.
So it looks like 1740 (at Jamaica) and 1742 (at Flushing) are still in the running for last 1982 RTS on the road (along with the ones at Qv, Quill and in Brooklyn.
I still think 1742 will win.
flx7595
I guess I saw 1746 AND 1747 for the last time yesterday on Queens Blvd. I wonder if the QV 1700s/1800s are gone? We shall soon see.
I bet 1760 will be the last 1 standing at UP Since 1755 is gone.
X28#1760Gary
1755 is still running out of Jamaica depot where it's been for the last couple of years now. Usually, they retire the buses going up in number order, unless there is a problem with one of the buses coming up for retirement. As I've said before, 1746 was a piece of crap and really needed to go, so I guess management knew that also which is why it went before 1740, unless there was a problem. The rest of the 1700/1800's are pretty much in the same condition in Jamaica so 1740 will probably be next. I would imagine a bus in the 1800 series will be the last 1982 pulled from service in NYCT. I guess all bets are on.
BIG AL
In memory of 1746, I posted the picture of her from Transit World onto my desktop. Why do the good die young? She was shot down in her prime (thank you MCIs and crappy Castleton Orions).
Seriously though, how could she have been so bad off if she only did like three or four trips a day her whole life? She should only be considered nine IMO because she worked about half (or less than that) than the local 1982s.
Here i rescanned 1746 specially for you:
1982 GMC RTS #1746
Who knows maybe Academy might buy it.
Peace,
Kevin
transitworld.org
Should I see about erecting a tombstone for you guys in memory of 1746? Born: 1982 Died:(put to sleep)11/8/00.
Anyway, I was shifting buses in the yard tonight and looked at a chart in the foremans office concerning all the buses currently out of service in Jamaica depot. 1746 is officially listed as SCRAP, meaning any usable parts will be taken off of it, so I doubt Academy or anyone else will be able to make a big mistake by buying it.
BIG AL
In fact Academy purchased 2 scrapped buses, but I do agree with you, I doubt they will buy them. Also, for people who do not know Academy did buy more buses over the summer. They are 1982's and they did not buy them from the TA, but they were ex-TA buses, they bought some of the ones the TA sold to Bus Sales International in California.
The buses that Academy would have bought from T/A would have to have been listed as "SALE" on the charts. "SCRAP" buses are dismantled and never sold other than to the scrap yards (if they even buy them?)
Besides, who would buy an old bus that was already stripped down?
BIG AL
ACADEMY!
Peace
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! LOL!
WOOOOOOOOOOO
Damn Str8!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The 1982 coaches will most likely be still running for at least another month or so. It is all contingent upon how fast Ulmer Park receives their new MCI's and wheather or not they choose to scrap their 1982-87 express coaches first before sending some of their 1996 Novas (possibly 9257-9271) to JAM.
I hate to shoot holes in BIG AL's numerical order theory, but JAM has removed buses 3870 and 3881 and placed them up for scrap. These are 1985 coaches! Meanwhile, spotted in service today was 1755!!
Mark
Actually, 3870 and 3881 have been sitting on the defect line for a little while with some kind of problem all though I don't know what it was. I did say that the buses were taken out of service and scrapped if a problem arose and they were soon due to be srapped. My numerical order theory was for buses that were still currently in service.
BIG AL
What, 3870 is laready about to meet the reaper?! I thought it had just arrived at JAM with a new paint job.
3870 is not going to be scrapped,I saw her at Parsons/Archer ready to pull out as a Q42(180th St bound)
3870 is not going to be scrapped,I saw her at Parsons/Archer ready to pull out as a Q42(180th St bound)last Tuesday morning
I walked onto 3870 tonight as I was leaving about 8pm. The farebox and radio have been removed, so you know what that means. When I go back to work on Tuesday, I'll try to get the scoop as to what happened. It only came in last month with the new paint job and I am sure it was not in service for more than 1 week, if that long. It mostly sat along the wall in the maintainence dept since arrival. This could go down as the biggest waste of a good new paint job in transit's history.
BIG AL
Nah. Whenever they TA stopped having graffitied subway cars, they painted a few old cars inside & out only to scrap them a few days later.
Yeh. I remember 8173 smelling fresh with the redbird paint. The side doors didn't have a chance for the dri-slide to stain the skin from the hangers when it went to NJ. The R27s were a mechanical and operating nightmare, although they looked nice without the grafitti.
What a shame! 3870, a bus that was brought over due to the accident to 3822 is only in service for a few weeks. And it had a brand new paintjob to her. I saw her working the X63 a quite a few times. The bus that I see a lot operating on the Express is 3874. Here she is at Kew Gardens Road on Queens Blvd:
Other buses still around Jamaica supposedly are 3865 and 3869. I saw 3865 Friday on Queens Blvd. I'm assuming that the 3800s at QV are also disappearing due to the Express Orions which are now operating the X68 (616-630). However, I saw 1751 and got to ride on 1773 which was a rocket on Friday and saw 1852.
Maybe your meaning of scrap is a whole lot different then mine. These buses which I got to see, had stuff missing like bumpers, windows, signs, seats etc. Wouldn't you consider that a scrap bus?
Sounds like a scrap bus to me. However, how do you know Academy is buying them from Transit? After transit strips them, they usually go to Nimco or Gershaw scrap yards. I'll bet Academy is buying them from over there. I have never seen transit sell any bus that was stripped down. They keep them whole and have them listed as "SALE". I have seen this myself in the paperwork while working downstairs. As you know, any one of us can easily walk into a junk yard and buy a stripped down car for real cheap and rebuild it. If that's what Academy is doing, and it sounds like it is, then more power to them.
BIG AL
If I had the money, I would buy a stripped-down bus, it would make a great restoration project. Hell, tell me where I can find a fishbowl (body shell only or complete, 102" wide only) and I'll consider it.
Check E-bay. Occasionally Fishbowls appear for sale. Unfortunately they're from a fellow on the left coast so getting them to NY might cost more than the bus itself.
Thanx,H.B. for the info. Actually I'm from Philly, but still it would be a long haul unless I hit that $102,000,000.00 Powerball first (LOL).
Powerball is up to $102,000,000.Time to go to Conn.
I never see it on the city buses I've been on in Queens and Staten Island, but on Long Island, especially the N21, there are guys drinking on the bus.
It is bad on weekends, some of them act drunk. Most are migrants that keep their drink (usually wine or whiskey) in a brown bag, but some openly display it. Isn't drinking illegal on a public bus and why is LI Bus doing nothing about it?
Between the drinking, playing with knives and cigarette lighters, the N21 bus is really becoming the LOWLIFE bus.
Hello:
I should have a very basic website with some of my fake fleets and even some illustrations of the fake buses up by the end of the day or possibly early tomorrow morning.
I will post again here when the website it up.
Thanks,
Neil Greenberg
nagreenb@umich.edu
¡Que viva el subjuntivo!
There is an decent article in the Sept/Oct issue of the "trade", Metro Magazine, by Cliff Henke "Can Diesel Be Bus Fuel of Both Past & Present ?"
Incl. are comments about the new "clean" diesel fleets at NJTransit (MCI Cruiser) & NYCT (New Flyers). It says that the diesel version requires: special diesel fuel (low sulfur); turbochargers; exhaust recirculation & "aftertreatments" (catalytic converters, particle traps). Another interesting point: diesels produce carbon dioxide & other carcinogens, but CNGs produce methane ... neither is very good for the enviornment. The article also knocks the qualitity of the CNG in the East.
I guess if the trend to CNG continues we'll have to put filters on cows, chickens & termintes :-)
Sometimes these articles are written by folks in the industry, i.e. this one would seem to have come from someone in the diesel engine business, BUT he's listed as a "Assoc. Publisher/Editor"
Copyright Disclaimer: I've identified the publication, author & qouted less then 400 words.
Mr t__:^)
Actually, CNG produces carbon dioxide, too. Any hydrocarbon fuel will.
Michalovic
Hybrid Eletric is cleaner than both! I'm pro Hybrid because you can easily adapt HEV buses to existing depots with minimal cost to the Authority. While with CNG, you have to either convert or build a whole new depot which is quite costly, where in the funds to convert a depot can go to another cost, like more Hybrid buses.
Trevor Logan
So why is the TA making it their 3rd choice ? Must be some other costs involved ?
And how about Fuel Cell ... Chicago was trying some of them ?
Mr t__:^)
well, the TA is pro Hybrid also but they are being pushed into CNG by politicians! Fuels Cell can be easily adapted too because Hybrid buses can easily be converted to Fuel Cell Buses!
Trevor Logan
[diesels produce carbon dioxide & other carcinogens, ]
Carbon dioxide is not a carcinogen.
Arti
See that you caught me ... I only work for a bus company & still have a lot to learn ... seriously, thanks for the correction.
Mr t__:^)
That's the beauty of a public forum.
Arti
CNG is way much cleaner than diesel. The only thing that will come out of the tailpipe is carbon dioxide and water vapor, as with diesel, soot, hydrocarbons, sulfur, and other fun stuff spew out of the tailpipe, but diesel exhaust does have a nice smell (sarcastically speaking, of course), something CNG doesn't have.
Somewhere (maybe here) I remember reading that the smaller exhaust particles of CNG are more carcinogenic than diesel exhaust.
Arti
This morning I saw a Nova 300 series on the Middle Village-bound Q67 with the sign reading FRESH POND RD instead of the expected METROPOLITAN AV or METRO EL STATION.
Has the 67 been extended down Metropolitan to Fresh Pond? When I try to check QS' official site, I get an Inactive screen. If this is so, it must be for two reasons:
-To improve connections between the 67 and the 39 and 58 (although the 67 already hooks up with the 39 and 58 in Industrial and Downtown Maspeth respectively.
-To eliminate that tight turnaround through the very narrow 65th Lane, Admiral Avenue and 65th Place. There had been complaints in recent years that 67s were forced to lay up on Mount Olivet Crescent due to narrow clearances (all those parked SUV's!!) on its official turnaround.
Given these considerations, it would be logical to have the 67 go to Fresh Pond; it must be much easier to turn around via Metro, 60th Lane, Eliot and the Pond.
Or am I spinning my wheels?
Our Transportation office confirms that the Q67 "turns" at Fresh Pond road to avoid some traffic/construction problems ... however the open question is can you get on or off there ... it's close to City Hall you know ... seriously they are going to let me know.
Hold the presses ... I got a call back, yes we stop there now.
Mr t__:^)
From what I can see, the entire local fleet on Staten Island is made up of Orion 6000s, with the 'King's Plush' seats. The last exceptions I can remember was riding Novas on the 51 and 78 (mixed with 3-digit Orions) in October '98, and seeing a 3-digit Orion leaving the Ferry for the 40 about a year ago.
Since the 6000s have the more powerful engines, they would seem a perfect fit for the Island's very hilly northeast quadrant, especially on the Victory and Van Duzer corridors. I recently rode the 74 end-to-end from the Ferry to Tottenville (about an hour midday), and it got some very good speed on the rural Greenridge, Rossville and Charleston sections. However, I felt like I had a headache from the acceleration growl.
We went to the Roadeo in June, and my wife was amazed to see long-distance type coaches with MTA logo and color scheme. Someone explained that because Staten Island essentially made Giuliani mayor, its residents were being rewarded with these big, comfortable express buses- just the way the Ferry and most of the SIR were made free.
It's hard to tell if this person was being cynical or not. Has anyone ever seen these coaches on the Brooklyn expresses? The X51, 63, 64 and 68 sure don't get them!!
Of course, for many years Staten Island got all the leftovers and retreads. The Macks ran well into the seventies- there's a few Joe Testagrossa pictures linked to this page.
Your long distance coaches are "MCI" buses. They are seated two by two with reclining seats. Overhead is a reading light and A/C vent that can be controlled by the pax just like an airplane and a bus stop signal button (one per the two seats).
They are only on Staten Island now, operators need special qual's not only on operating but also the special ADA lift they have.
Also they can't fit into the older bus depots (too tall), even though most of them are still under warrantee all maintenance is done by the vendor at the bus depot. YUK also stores them off the depot, across the street in 3/4 lanes next to the greenbelt and at the bus turnaround at the corner of Richmond Ave and Auther Kill Road.
Well alot of those felt seats are torn, and the engines at SI's 6000 series Orions seem abit rougher than the 6000s at Stengal.
They may have newer buses at S.I. but I don't think they are maintained as well as in Queens. Most of the NYCT breakdowns I've seen have been on S.I.
Also in summer, for some reason there is a fairly large percentage (30-40%) with little or no A/C.
I remember this summer going to S.I. to "cool off" when the buses i got on were warm and damp, and it wasn't comfortable sitting on those felt seats when you're sweating.
The whole S.I. operation reminded me more of Long Island Bus than NYCT.
From what I have seen at the Transitalk NYC Bus Roster web site, some MCI coaches are slated to go to Ulmer Park as they are delivered. 2763-2804 will go to Ulmer Park, while most of the older RTS Suburban coaches will be scrapped (1982), put into storage (1985-86), or moved (7000-remans and Nova RTS6).
I would now like to know is how many MCI & Orion Surburban express buses are now at Yukon Bus Depot.
I also forgot, anything about the 2 proposed South Shore express buses.
I would like to know if there are any MCI buses at Ulmer Park Depot, if so, how many have arrived there, if not, when will the MCI buses began to start arriving at Ulmer Park Depot.
DIDN'T YOU SEE THE PAST POST. 2755 IS THERE AND IN SERVICE!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Correction 2755 is NOT in service.The operators including myself have not been trained on the MCI's. BTW the MCI's will be used exclusivly on the X27.
Correction on the correction...2755 is no longer at Ulmer Park. It, along with 2756 and 2757, is in Yukon!! Thats right! In the ever changing express bus assignment, Yukon will be receiving 2705-2762--a total of 58 buses. Ulmer Park will receive 2763-2804 for a total of 42 buses. In fact, bus 2770 is in Ulmer Park...RIGHT NOW!!!!!!
Mark
Damn, ever changing!
It never stops!
Trevor
those buses have not yet arrived. we evidently have a shortage of fareboxes as 2741 and 2746-2754 sit idle awaiting them.
They can just put 1746's farebox into 2746 and a piece of PA1746 will live on forever.
I wouldn't consider the farebox a piece of 1746 as fareboxes are separate units which get transfered from bus to bus. I would consider a tire valve cover more of a sentimental piece of 1746.
RTS 2150, since you have such an emotional attachment for this bus, I'll mail you a few loose nuts and bolts from her once they begin dismantling it.
BIG AL
Yesterday, November 10th, I went to Ulmer Park Depot to have lunch with my friend who is an operator there. He took me downstairs into the maintenance area and showed me MCI #2755. The bus is brand spanking new and is still without any depot logo. The MCI builders plate identifies the bus as having been built in September 2000. I got a chance to sit behind the wheel and immediately became envious of my brethren in Staten Island. What a great bus!Even just sitting there motionless you get the feel of what a pleasure it must be to drive this beauty. It is definitely the Rolls Royce of buses. In the meantime like Big Al and everyone else at QV & JAM we at 126th St are stuck driving those hideous RTS's which just keep getting worse and worse. 126 like QV & JAM has become a dumping ground for everyone elses garbage. In our case it's those fabulous 4400's from that standard bearer of bus maintenance MaBSTOA. These buses are in such bad shape that they have to spend a week in maintenance just to get them road worthy again. Maybe things will change but I'm not holding my breath.
The fact that 2755 has no depot logo on her tells me that it will be headed over the bridge to SI and Yukon Depot sometime next week. Its probably there at Ulmer Park for training purposes. As for 126th Street being a dumping ground, well, welcome to the club!
Mark
The RTS buses are only "hideous" as you call them because of that great maintenance you can only get from NYCTA (note the sarcasm). If MABSTOA can't keep RTS buses in service for 15 years without them turning into rolling scrap, I'll hate to see how the Flyers and MCIs will look after 15 years.
The MCIs you all have aren't the Rolls-Royce of buses, they're not even the Mercedes are Cadillac, maybe Lexus. The MCI E series is the true Rolls-Royce of buses. The RTS is the Caddilac and the D40LF is the Lincoln.
Does this mean the Orion V is a Buick or Oldsmobile.:)
I'd say the more on the lines of a Chevy Lumina or the old Corsica.
Which makes a Gillig the equivalent of a Yugo
I'd rate the RTS as the Yugo of transit buses. As far as maintenance goes, NYCTA depots generally have better maintenance than MaBSTOA depots. 126th Street's MDBF is over 3100 miles which is the best in Manhattan Division. Many times MaBSTOA will transfer a decrepit RTS over and then after 126 maintenance gets it in decent shape they'll take it back.
I'd say the RTS and Orion are more along the lines of a cheap Chevy or Ford.
-Hank
No, just the Orions. The RTS are like a fully loaded Navigator. That's a ford product.
I'd say more like a full loaded Pinto. That's a Ford product too.
Really? Ford made a long lasting, great looking, beautiful sounding, durable in almost any condition version of the Ford Pinto?! My oh my, you learn something new everyday in this wonderful world.
It is now about 4:10 PM on Friday Bus and Sub-Talk poster Todd Glickman is doing the Weather live on WCBS-AM 880 on the dial. He is in the studio and not up in MA. Don't know how long he's working today.
I hear Todd Glickman all the time on 880 am doing the weather. I didn't know he was a bus & sub talker. What name does he go under?
BIG AL
No handle just Todd Glickman. He mostly posts on Sub-Talk not here. But he does drive ex-Boston MTA bus fishbowl 6169 that is preserved at Sea Shore Trolley Museum in Kennebunc, Maine. I saw the bus up there on the Tuesday after Labor Day and she looks pretty good. She was alongside former Public Service GM Old Look # K - 514
MBTA 6169 I believe ( according to something I read about it somewhere in the past) is a 1966 model that I rode several times when the MBTA provided the bus service in Lowell MA, my city of residence.6169 was assigned to the MBTA's Tewksbury garage in the early and mid 70's, and had been reassigned to another garage before the Lowell Regional Transit Authority came into existence in June 1976 and started providing service with a fleet of Flxible new looks and GMC fishbowls leased from the MBTA.
6169 has had an interesting life.It was taken out of revenue service and converted into a command vehicle for the MBTA police.In the late 80's or very early 90's it was rehabbed and converted back into it's original transit configuration and returned to revenue service until it and the rest of the fishbowls were retired from service in 1996.As 6169 was in such excellent condition inside and out, it was the perfect choice to be sent to Seashore for preservation. I believe this same article had pics of Todd Glickman with this bus when it out and about in Kennebunkport Maine on a fan fest trip out of the Seashore museum.
Mark Watson
Yes, Take a look at the SubTalk Field Trip report to Seashore. There are several shots of 6169, some of their other buses AND trolley/subway collection.
Also see the BMTman & I "assuming the position" on their "A Train".
We had a great time in July !
Mr t__:^)
MBTA #6169 is a 1967 GMC TDH-5303, one of the first 300 new buses purchased by the Authority. As noted, it had an interesting service history - how many transit buses anywhere get converted into a service vehicle, and then converted back to revenue service?!?
Two other interesting notes about this bus. First, by the time it was converted back to revenue service in the early 90's, almost all of the MBTA's remaining GMC New Look buses had been rebuilt. To my knowledge, it was one of the last two unrebuilt New Looks in service (the other was #6505, which was equipped with a wheelchair lift in the 1970's and served for years as a special-duty "handicapped" bus for charters and such). Second, #6169 was the star of a "Farewell to the Fishbowls" fantrip that a bunch of us rode in 1995.
May it run forever in Maine!
Jim (RailBus)
Todd always seems to make it for the monthly NY Division ERA meetings (third Fridays), and he lives in Boston (but grew up in NY). His bio is here somewhere.
Parade magazine interviewed him for a short item two years ago. He was the spokes person for the AMS.
Saw this bus on the QM1 tonight with a glow in the dark ad. I think Thurston mentioned this once before. I finally saw it tonight. There was another bus that supported this. Stay tuned-I'll be on the lookout.
QM1#947Gary
I saw a few Liberty and NYBS buses with those glow-in-the-dark ads.
Mark
Liberty may have been first ... were before QSC anyway. We have about 8 buses so equiped IIRC. They were NOT put on the Orions CNGs because the Orions draw a lot of power already when they are parked (for CNG stuff).
Mr t__:^)
I have a book on the fishbowls, and GM offered it as an option on the newer models (5305 and newer). My question is that did GM offer retrofit kits for the older models (5301, 5302, 5303, 5304, 4516, 4517, etc.) and did they really help improve the enviroment? I've noticed that SEPTA's Flxible fishbowl-look-a-likes had the EIP, but not the fishbowls themselves. How did they improve the enviroment? To me, it just seemed like a tailpipe relocation.
I don't know how it improved the environment either. I'm guessing that no agency had retrofitted any older GM fishbowls with the EIP. I've only seen the EIP on the fourth generation fishbowls (4523,5307 & 5308). AFAIK - NYCTA had one T6H-5305A (4300) with the EIP.
In the early 70's Flxible new look buses also relocated the exhaust pipe to the same location as EIP equipped GM fishbowls. This is also when Flxible change their model designation scheme to 53102-8-1, 45096-6-1 etc.
Wayne
Flxible's first EIP exhaust bus was built in 1969 and was an option between 1969 and 1973 before the model number change that took place 1973.
If there was a retrofit kit available from GM or Flxible, I don't know of any property that used it.
RDChilds
The GM "EIP" was also experimentally used on some of San Francisco's T8H5305's delivered in 1970.
Not all buses that had the "EIP" came with the tailpipe up high. San Diego Transit and Oceanside Transit System out here in California kept their tailpipes in the usual low position.
According to the GM Maintenance manual, the EIP exhaust utilized a catalytic muffler to reduce emissions. The engine air filtration was done with a dry element air filter instead of an oil bath filter. Also the relocated exhaust pipe was to reduce the exhaust blast on people and cars behind the bus when the engine was running.
RDChilds
Thanx for the info.
As of this week all of YUK's express service will be operated with MCI coaches. The remaining 15 Orion V's have been moved elsewhere. My question is...WHERE ARE THEY???? I know that 130-140 are in Casey Stengel (I'm the one who makes up the Transit Talk roster). What I don't know are the whereabouts of 115-129. I'm about to put out an APB on them.
Mark
They are probably in one of the CMF's getting a new paint job like the 9200 and 9300's.
BIG AL
To some people this may be a stupid question, but I don't live in SI to know this, does Yukon Depot still operate the few 4800's they have and the 82xx and 83xx TMC's or do they just sit there because they have no place to go?
Thanks,
Jay
They use them, in rush hour and school service!
You will not see a RTS in service on the weekend unless it's a extreme emergency!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
8299 and 8300 can be found in Training service on almost a daily basis!
Trevor
8293-8316 are still assigned to Yukon. Also 1987 coaches 4892-4899 are still there as well.
Mark
This past friday i saw a bunch of 82/8300s and 4800s on the S56 in a matter of 5 minutes. They were all school runs which terminate at Arthur Kill Road instead of SI MALL. Also lately on the weekends I have seen more of the TMCs in service.
Peace,
Kevin
transitworld.org
As Thanksgiving nears, thoughts of the holidays start to creep up. And if you happen to be in Queens be sure to check out Queens Village and Jamaica Depot's express coaches--now Orions and Novas--which should be decked out once again in full holiday cheer. The decorated buses have been done by the operators in Queens for years now. They usually drive the same bus everyday. In recent years, I've seen QSC and JBL buses adorned with X-mas decorations. Well be on the lookout in the coming weeks
Mark
Maybe if they decorate the 1982 RTS Express coaches, they'll make it through Christmas...:)
Actually, a little garland on the farebox and some mistletoe by the rear exit might be nice.
They could put a wreath on 1746 and have it towed through the streets of Queens on its way to Nimco.
What a bunch of LOSERS!!!
The Destination Sign has a Holiday code too.
Mr t__:^)
When I worked in Brooklyn 6 years ago, I once saw a bus that was flashing "Seasons Greetings", or something like that, with the rest of the destination messages, around the holidays. I never did find out what that code was. I'll check around the depot and see if anybody knows it, however I have never seen this message since I've been in Queens. It may not be stored in the current Luminator sign codes as the bus I saw could have been a 1981 with the thumb wheel computer. However, if anybody knows the code, please post it as I would love to have it flashing on my bus for the holidays.
BIG AL
It's not on my list either, but 4019 is very nice ;-)
How about 9985 just to see if anyone is paying attention ?
Mr t__:^)
I rode on bus 136, one of the "express" style Orions CS has gotten from YUK. The seats were comfy, but the transmission quite "jerky" to say the least. Otherwise it really didn't ride that bad, especially compared to the Cummins L10G Orions we have at LI Bus.
The 6V-92TA engine was as expected, not too good on the acceleration.
But it could still beat a Cummins L10G anyday!
If you don't like those express Orions, just send them my way, I'll gladly have them for my 1 hour 10 minute N21 ride to Flushing!
Gee - must have missed that.
Rode 291 on the Q15 tonight (no middle seat in the back).
It was noisy. Would have rather had the coach.
Does this mean 4448 is all but done in Flushing?
Flx7595
I had 294 (now with Series 50) also on the Q48 earlier in the day. Ran pretty good.
Took it past the Stengal "outcast" yard where some Cummins buses may still be lurking.
I was expecting the express Orion coaches to be horrible from what I heard here, but for the most part I enjoyed my ride on bus 136. It was a bit jerky, but alot of the 6V-92 engines are that way.
I sure wish LI Bus operated "express" style buses on long routes like the N21 (1 hour 10 minutes on average from Glen Cove-Flushing). Those hard seats (even the new 300s have kept the hard seats, not like NYCT) give me hemmorhoids, when you're sitting in them for over an hour.
But I guess since the migrant crowd pretty much trashes the buses, I guess LIB felt that felt seats would get damaged and dirty frequently (they'd have to clean soil stained seats almost daily).
As far as Xpres style seating goes, maybe when regular commuters and weekend travelers ride the bus on LI, maybe then they will add express style buses. But they wouldn't want to take a chance, especially with people playing with cigarette lighters, eating drinking on the bus,etc.
I actually enjoy riding Queens buses though, there aren't any lowlifes, the buses run fine for the most part, and they are clean.
But on LI, especially the Glen Cove-Flushing N21 line, mostly hispanic migrants ride the bus, especially on weekends, and it's packed on weekends (I'm dreading this one). It seems this particular group has no respect for the rules of the bus. The come on full of dirt and filth and made the whole bus dirty, they spit, drink alchoholic beverages (whiskey is a favorite), and eat and just make a mess.
Actually Levittown buses (like Hempstead Tpke buses) are much cleaner due to a slightly more mainstream ridership.
Seriously though, I'm not racist or anything I just wish these folks had manners, and that rules on the bus regarding eating and drinking were enforced.
I'll hopefully get a goodnight's sleep before my fun ride on a bus packed with not so well mannered migrants and screaming kids tomorrow! :-(
--------------
Newsday Page 6-Island briefs
MIGRANTS GET BURNED
Smoking and drinking can really get you in trouble. But a different kind of trouble erupted on an N21 bus going to Glen Cove
on Saturday.
Some careless hispanic migrants playing with a cigarette lighter, another drinking whiskey, got too close and there was an explosion.
All the garbage littering the floor caught fire. Several passengers, most of them could not speak english, got minor burns.
The bus, 162, had minor smoke damage. Well perhaps the only blessing would be that LI Bus is now overhauling 162 and
putting in a new Series 50G engine, which runs alot better than the slow Cummins L10G.
:-O :-O :-O
This is a joke if you don't get it by now!!
-------------
Several people from the U.N. wish to talk to you. Please take the M42 and M104 bus.
So 294 has a new Series 50. Is it missing the middle seat in the back?
Bus 294 was delivered with a Series 50 engine. 1993 Orions 291-294 all have Series 50 engines. Buses 295-297 and 299-300 were delivered with Cummins C8.3 engines. Those 5 buses are now at Blitz receiving new DD Series 50 IV engines and new Allison V731R transmissions. Buses 290 & 298 were delivered with DD6V92TA engines. Bus 290 I believe has a new Series 50.
Mark
I saw Oruins #234 at 207th street yard on Friday with a new series 50 engines in it. The bus looked like it had a fire in it. There was black fire marks all over the back. Only the engines door was new so far.
Robert
Yes, the middle seat was missing. I think I saw 293 with a series 50 also in Flushing tonight. Going in on the N21 this morning was pretty bad, had bus 199, the damn Cummins rattled like hell and could barely make it up hills without stalling. It got packed toward Great Neck, that's where I bailed for the LIRR instead.
Going back had one of the 300s, and fortunately this time, it wasn't too crowded.
294 always had a series 50
Had 132 last week on the Q74-rode pretty smooth compared to 101-114. Yesterday I saw 134, 137 and 138 on the Q74.
Q74#132Gary
Saw 131 on the Q32 this morning at 34 & Madison also you have never seen the Q12 on late Sat nite /early Sun morn.Same B/S as the described with the N20/21
Guess it could be that way since the Q12 pretty much follows the N20/21 in Queens, along Sanford and Northern.
As many of you know, the inaugural MCI Cruisers for NJ Transit's new MCI order, Bus #7501 & #7503, has been in service now for about 3 months.
But the test is over, Bus #7502 has started service this past week on the 134, but now up to Bus #7515 has been delivered so now the Eagles are definately, PEACE OUT!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I am probably going to be one of the few people who will miss the Eagles, but that's another story. Hopefully, NJT will send some of the first batch of new buses to Newton Av in Camden, since they are the only other NJT garage with Eagles. The only other cruiser buses at Newton are the MC-9As.
Speaking of Newton Av, apparently, some of the buses that were assigned to Market St/Patterson and other North Jersey shops have made their way south. I saw #1204 running on the 404 line (Cherry Hill Mall to Philadelphia) this past Sunday. Oddly enough, it still was sporting ads for a car dealer in Paramus.
A friend advised me that four 2500 series buses (RTS 30-footers) are now at Community Transportation and operating on the 752 route Oakland, Ridgewood, Hackensack (2545, 2551, 2553, 2554). These 4 buses were originally assigned to NJT Newton Ave garage. I'll bet that 1204 is one of the 4 buses that came from Community in exchange for the 30-footers.
Actually it's 12 Baby Novas are at Community Coach, #2545-2556!
But other than that those buses you are seeing down south are ex-Community Coach Novas, Market Street still has all of thier originals!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Morris County has 2569-2580.
Just recently, someone had posted bustalk that NYCT is considering adding two new South Shore express bus routes by January 2001.
If this is true & if you know about it, can you please post the information on bustalk on the route desciption of these two new South Shore express routes like where will they operate between, what strrets, avenues will they travel on in both Manhattan & Staten Island & it's route numbers that they will be using.
Do you ever come on this board and impart some knowledge? All you do is ask one question after another. Whats even more frustrating is most of your questions were answered in previous threads as is the case with this S. Shore express nonsense. Try sharing something worthwhile for a change and stop asking questions that have been answered already.
SShore service has not yet been finalized. It may happen...it may not happen--who's to say.
Mark
Hey, you just asked the same question Wednesday. I'm sick and tired of your shit. Grow up. Knock it off. The info will be posted when it is known. I'm sick, tired and fed up of your lack of manners, lacking a better word. If you keep being a pest, you'll never get the info from anybody! The WebMaster ought to kill your posting privleges, but that may be a violation of your freedom of speech, even if your speeches are stupid. As I said in SubTalk, it's about time you contributed something constructive to this board, and scan the boards' messages to find the answers so you won't have to ask so many dumb questions.
Amen!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Bill, you couldn't have said it any better. I feel the same way you do.
Quite honestly Bill, I went easy on him. You took the words right out of my mouth. The only thing is, I wish you didn't say it as a direct response to my post. :)
Mark
You are correct in that I should have made the response from his original post rather than from your reply. I stand corrected and apologise for my error.
Have anyone been of Suffolk county buses? These has to be one of the fastests transit buses I ever rode on. There Orions, all new. Fast acceleration and comfortable ride. Anyone know the engine specs? I think its a DD S-50. Or what model of Orion they are?
*All of the buses i saw there in NYC were almost scratchitti free vandalism free clean for the most part solid running etc.......
SURE AINT LIKE THAT HERE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA!!!!!!
here you cant even see your stop the windows have been scratchitti-ed
to the point on some buses to the window turning grey!!!!!!
compared to southern california your buses there were wonderful!!!
Actually, our buses have a scratchitti problem as well. The buses in Staten Island especially.
Although it will never be as bad as LA's buses. I've seen many of their buses with so much graffiti(paint & marker) on it that I thought that I was looking at a bus version of a subway car circa 1983. San Francisco's MUNI bus system was even worse.
I just spent some time in L.A., although I wish I had more time to ride the buses and rails than I did. The older the LA-MTA bus, the worse the scratchiti seemed to be (with exceptions, of course). The good news is that (1) the newer buses were pretty much scratchiti-free and (2) MTA had lots of new buses. I was very pleasantly surpised to see so many buses that weren't on the November 1998 roster that appears in Bus Rosters on the Web - the D40 New Flyers in the 5000 series, the CNG Neoplan AN440A's in the 6700 series, and the NABI low-floor CNG buses in the 7000-7100 series. I did not see very many of the 1981 RTS's (8200-9139), and the few I saw looked much worse than the 1982 RTS expresses out of Jamaica and QV. Perhaps the LA-MTA fleet is headed towards better days.
Subject says it all, 13 million to be spent on adding a fueling facility to Bladensburg Division.
Finally, Metro's changing their stubborn, arrogant, we-know-best attitude. For years they've been insisting on diesel against all odds, including serious health concerns. Bravo!
Chris
According to the Surplus Materials page of the MTA website, tomorrow (Monday 11/13) is the last day to get your bids in on 20 surplus RTS-04's and 06's. Yet the lot is described as 5 - 1985 models and 10 1986 models. No numbers given. Also we must complement the MTA on their "fuzzy math" 10 + 5 = 20 (sic)
[20 surplus RTS-04's and -06's....5 1985 models and 10 1986 models....]
Okay, so 5 + 10 = 15. To offer the benefit of the doubt:
1. Maybe the "5" or the "10" was meant as a "15."
2. Maybe the "20" was meant as a "15."
3. Maybe the "5" and "10" are correct and there are five additional buses which could be from either batch (or any other).
Maybe it is 20 buses but with all the parts stripped for scrap - it really equals 15 "complete" buses. :)
what is the lowest acceptable bid. if more than two cents its a ripoff. hahaha
I have a report that Orions from a small bus company from Rockland or Westchester Counties are now running on the above route. Can anybody confirm or deny? And if so, from where and which company did they come from? Thanks guys!
Yes, they are running Orion I or III's, I can't rememebr. It goes right past my house. They still have Flex's on their route. Can anyone ride these buses, or is it private?
B61 Leonard
If this bus is the B110 anyone are alod to ride. All you have to do is keep your head covered and pay the $2.00. If it is not the B110 then I don't know.
Robert
Also, the men & women sit seprately according to Orthodox Jewish law.
Transport of Rockland still has some old Orion I's in service (operated by Rockland Coach), so those in Brooklyn are probably not from T.O.R. I see #112-115 at the old Short Line garage in Mahwah frequently.
Check out my SubTalk message #167108. You will see who follo really is!
How in the world that one was pulled off? I thought you are only allowed to sign on to BT & ST once(unless heis using 2 different E-Mail addresses which then makes sense.
There was someone at one time who had multiple e-mail addresses. He stopped posting once Dave P. found out what was going on.
AOL, AOL, AOL I think Version 6 is no up to 8 email addresses per account. Not to meantion you could setup Juno stuff too and the likes of that. I don't think Dave is checking IP addresses.
at one time,went by the name of Sarand
Steve
AOL 6 still has only 7 to my knowledge, AOL 5 has 7, AOL 4 and 3 have 5.
Doubtful, the 2 IP addresses are different.
Peace,
ANDEE
Nice try, Bill, but I don't think thats him...We might only get to meet this fool at an event of some sort. By the way, he hasn't posted since we told him off on Saturday. Keep your fingers crossed!
Mark
That is not BMTJeff, I know who this is...This person e-mails me like 4 paragraphs worth of questions. Below is one of the life story e-mails he's sent me:
"To Trevor,
You forgot to add something to the revised MCI roster, at Castleton
Depot, there are 1993 Orion Surburban express buses, I would like to
know if those 1993 Orion Surburban express buses will remain at
Castleton Depot or not.
Next, forgot what you had said on a previos e-mail but will Maspeth Bus Depot be reconstructed or will the former AVIS Facility be torn down & will a new depot be built, if Maspeth will be reconstructed, when will the reconstruction start & when will this depot open.
Finally, how many of the R142 & R142A cars will be assigned to the #2,5 & 6 lines & what will the car assignment be like for the IRT lines when the entire R142 & R142A cars are all in service & what Redbird cars will remain in service as well."
Now if that doesn't match the wonderful style of Follo then I don't know. But if you look at that e-mail above:
1) It has the same style in question
2) It's the same damn questions we are getting asked now
ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I think i know who this is,,has done the same to me,and repeats his questions over and over again.
I am convinced that I am wrong about BMT Jeff being follo and have said so in SubTalk. Thanks to all who set me on the right course!
I saw a bus on Flushing Avenue & 61st Street. The bus had the following message:
B57 MASPETH
B57 FRESH PND RD
.
Strange, isn't it.
Back in the 80's and early 90's, the B57 actually used to say 61st Street on the destination signs. I don;t know why they have the signs say Fresh Pond Road, even though it's technically not the last stop, Grand Avenue and 64th Street is. Another question, I've noticed that buses that leave Downtown Bklyn shows via streets, except B38, B45, B61, B57 and B75. Why is that? Maybe it hard for the 61, for it turns almost every 5 mins down another street, but the 57 runs down Flushing Avenue for most of the route, as well as the 38 does Dekalb and Lafayette and 45 does St Johns Place. Just a thought.
B61 Leonard
My question is about the period after it says "B57 FRESH PND RD."
B57 MASPETH
B57 FRESH PND RD
.
Oh, maybe it's a typo.
AFAIK, the B25 is the only bus out of ENY depot that have the "via" sign.
B25#4957Mike
I don't think so.I could swear I have seen a Q24 with the Via Atlantic then the destination
that is true, I have recently seen a Q24 with "via Atlantic" on the destination sign. It blew my mind!
B61 Leonard
that is true, I have recently seen a Q24 with "via Atlantic" on the destination sign. It blew my mind! Just like the B49 now has "via Bedford, via Ocean" on the signs.
B61 Leonard
You guys are correct, the Q24 does have the via sign on it. How about that B49 via signs though? Weird, isnt it?
Q24#8671Mike
B49#5116Mike
Three new MCI's arrived at Upk today they are 2766,2770,2775.
Fortunately the posts several months back proved true - the Big Blue Bus (formerly Santa Monica Municipal Bus Lines) still has a decent number of fishbowls in service. Although I didn't get to ride one during my recent trip to L.A., it was nice seeing them, both in Santa Monica's original colors and the new "Big Blue Bus" paint scheme. I got to ride several B.B.B. lines, and have the feeling they operate a very nice system. The 50 cent base fare (with a free transfer) isn't bad either. If any BusTalker from outside the L.A. area gets there in the future, do not miss the Big Blue Bus system.
The Big Blue Bus fare is still 50 cents? Wow! That was the fare when I left LA almost 10 years ago. I still have a few bus tokens from there with the SM cut through the token in some and a solid SM token on others.
Yeah - and not only fishbowls, but GMDD fishbowls.
Wayne
Yes and not only GMDD fishbowls but 1986 models with Detroit Diesel 6v-92TA's in them!
Peace
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Oh Yeah - I forgot about those. It's a bit strange that despite the 1986 GMDD fishbowls at SMMBL having 6V-92TA they were still designated T8H-5307A's.
Wayne
>It's a bit strange that despite the 1986 GMDD fishbowls at SMMBL >having 6V-92TA they were still designated T8H-5307A's.
Actually, I believe only the first batch of SMMBL Canadian New Looks were T8H 5307A's, and these -did- have V8 engines, perhaps 8V71. These were delivered in late 1982, and in my opinion, were retired -way- too early after only about 15 years of service. We all well know that New Looks can make it well past the 20 year mark.
The buses of the 1985-1986 New Look order were appropriately designated as T6H 5307A's, and yes, these do have 6V92TA's. These are the ones still in service. I hope Big Blue will hold on to these for longer than 15 years. This order, of course, includes the last ever New Look, #5180.
Neil Greenberg
Wasn't a Santa Monica GMC New Look the star vehicle in the movie "Speed"?
Jim
Yes.
Peace,
ANDEE
Yes - It was a GMC TDH-5303.
Wayne
NO!
While the buses used for "Speed" were painted and lettered for Santa Monical "Intercity" Bus Lines (instead of Santa Monica MUNICIPAL Bus Lines....) they actually were ex-San Diego buses. The blue & gold interiors give some of it away.
I'm sure "gmartic" can tell you EXACTLY which buses they were.
They were not all SD buses. I have all the info but no time to tell right now. There was even a GM demonstragtor in the SPEED buses (T6H 5305A 087) Will be back in town tomorrow and will let anyone know that is interested all about the movie
ALL of the GMD's delivered to Santa Monica Municipla Bus Lines were designated "T8H5307A".
5101-5122 (08/82) C3500773-C3500794
5123-5153 (11/85) G3500016-G3500046
5154-5180 (03/86) G3500153-G3500179
All above groups show in the production lists to be T8H5307A model.
San Diego Transit also got 80 GMD T8H5307A's, and all had 6V92's in them. They were delivered in 1981.
San Diego 901-980 were also designated "T8H5307A' yet they had DD 6V92's in them. The logic, as I was told, is that the 6V92 put out as much (or more than) the power than the 8V71 did.
Sunday my girlfriend and I made a spur of the moment trip to Foxwoods casino in Ledyard CT.We parked in Lot 9 and boarded one of Coach USA/Arrow Line's MC-5C coaches, number 20131, that had just arrived at the shuttle pick up area.Fortunetly,the seats right behind the driver was empty,so we grabbed them,as right above our heads was the manufacturers' plate,from which I copied the following info:
Model MC-5C Serial # S14109 Unit # 7667 Date of manufacture 11/79. I have never seen any manufacturers' lists anywhere for MCI MC-5C coaches. Would anyone know if this particular bus was one of the over 200 that were made for Greyhound's Saudi Arabian operations?
Also had a chance to ride one of the Foxwoods RTS buses, number 416, on a shuttle to and from the Two Trees Inn.Got a quick glance at the manufacturers' plate above the drivers' area while boarding and again when deboarding,but since there were many folks behind us both times,couldn't stop long enought to really give it a extra good look, but this is what I was able to get off that plate:
Model RTS-II Manufactured by GMC 8/78 Remanufactured by TMC 10/93.Couldn't get the serial # unfortunetly,as I could have checked the GMC RTS manufacturers roster I have in a 1987 copy of Motor Coach Age that I picked up at Bus Bash this past May to see who originally owned this bus. This is a 35 foot bus,no wheelchair lift. The seats were all padded and comfortable.The rear slantback had the squareback AC retrofit.I think someone had mentioned in a previous post that they believed these RTS' may have been originally in Long Beach.Be curious to discover if in fact this bus was one of them.Hopefully I can get some serial numbers next time we get down there.
Mark Watson
How about the Flxibles ... did you see any ? The last time I was at Foxwoods I rode a couple ... maybe they're gone now.
Mr t__:^)
I rode one of Arrow's Grumman Flxibles the first time I went to Foxwoods back in April. I've been back twice since,in June and this past weekend,and no Flxibles to be found.
Mark Watson
RED & TAN OF JERSEY CITY aka TRANS-HUDSON
For the monorail shuttle service to serve along those ex-TA Grumman Flxibles that Trans-hudson brought off of NJ Transit.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Those MC-5C from Saudi Arabia were easy to spot because they had a roof cover about a couple of inches above to roof to absorb some of the extreme heat in Saudi Arabia. The last time I went to Foxwoods about 5 years ago Arrow had some former Queens/Steinway GMDD T8H-5307A's operating.
Wayne
The MC-5C in question (7667/S14109) was originally delivered to Greyhound Taseco Saudi Arabia Ltd. as #2218 in 1979.
It then came back to the USA and was Robinson Bus Service Inc. (IL) #117.
As for the RTS mentioned, Long Beach's all had lifts.
I had the opportunity to ride on this bus today on the Q66. This featured the John Deer Engine which in my opinion sounded very similar to the 1998 Orion V CNG'S from LI Bus only MUCH QUIETER and a VERY SMOOTH and FAST ride. 404 is the other QS Bus that features this engine. I think that the next Orion CNG Buses from TCC, GBL, Command and LI Bus should feature this engine. Is it similar to the DD50 or Cummins?
Thurston, it ran like a "DEER!" :) 2 GREAT buses there! Hopefully more to come soon!
Q66#437Gary
Wow, I had no idea.
I rode 404 home on the QM1A on Monday night leaving 36+6 at 10 pm. I thought it had a better ride and quieter engine but I thought that I was imagining things.
Gary Deer you've been greened :-)
It's just a test ... the TA isn't the only bus company in town to test out new things you know ? So far the test is going very well. We would like to have another engine mfg. We'll just have to wait and see how it goes.
Mr t__:^)
Well I think the DD Series 50G is excellent, especially compared to the Cummins L10G. I was on a lot of new 300 CNG's at LIB with the series 50G, on the N71 to Sunrise Mall and N81 to Hicksville, as well as the N20(between Hicksville and Greenvale). The buses did really well on these routes, with almost car-like acceleration. Must've done 60mph on parts of Carmans road and route 107 and 25, as well as Sunrise Highway.
These buses could probably beat some cars on the road!
Man if this Deer engine is even better I gotta check it out!
They have experience with this engine in trucks, school buses & farm equipment ... so it's not a new business for them.
Mr t__:^)
Hey everyone, SEPTA's 8698 bus is going to be restored as a museum bus. This is a 1984 Neoplan AN440 suburban bus, and it's my favorite one! However, there were a few others that I didn't know about, like the GMC RTS and Fishbowl. I already knew about the Flxible. Hopefully, one day a few years ago I would come to a SEPTA Rodeo and see it once again, my favorite bus. Anyway, when are those SEPTA Rodeos and where are they?
Usually mid-June at the Veterans Stadium parking lot. Take the Broad St Subway southbound to the end of the line (Pattison). The entrance to the parking area where the Roadeo is held is off Pattison near 11 St.
As for 8698, there are plans to enter it into the museum fleet, but as of a couple weeks ago, it's still seeing limited revenue service out of Red Arrow.
10 AM to 5 PM
M1 SB
5 Av,79 st,Lexington av,39 st, Park Av South
M2,M3,M4 SB
5 Av,79 st,Lexington av,39 st,5 av
Q32 SB
60 st,Lexington av,42 st,5 av
M66 WB
67 st Lexington Av,66 st,Transverse
M72 WB
72 st,Park Av,66 st,Transverse
M72 EB
65 st,Madison Av,72 st,
X1 7 av,42 st,5 Av
Southbound
X10 X17
southbound
57 st,Lexington,42 st,5 av
86 st is the alternate instead of 79 st
Thanks for the info Steve
I would like to know a brief route descipition on Staten Island on what streets, avenues or roads does Trans-Hudson's #122 & #144 routes operate, where do these two routes terminate in New Jersey & what times do these two routes operate.
Please post information.
Follo, I understand that you have questions that need or want to be answered about the buses and subways. But it seems to us BusTalkers that you're repeating questions over and over again. Now we do not want to lose this board. If you want to know something desperately, email someone that you would think would know the answer to the question. Quit posting the same questions on this board. Please post some info here. For example: 2775 is now at UP or QS Bus 437 has a smooth ride to her because of the John Deer Engine. Please stop posting nonsense! We are not gonna lose it because of stupidity like this. Put out or get out! It's that simple! And if I asked everyone else on this board, they would agree with me!
Some of us are of the opinion that posting 'Bus 1234 is on the F12 in Neverland' is of the same quality as follo's posts.
-Hank
Even though you are repeating yourself I won't repeat my answer about #144. Can't you just stop repeating yourself??
If you want the information ,contact me at smokiecat@webtv.net.it is on my webpage
Steve
Why don't you just call these companies or call people up at the TA to get your information like some of us do.
Sometime we don't like answering 50 million questions, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
It's just straight up aggravating.
CALL TRANS-HUDSON, THEY WILL GLADLY GIVE YOU THE ROUTES AND IF YOU WANTED A TOUR OF THE FACILITY, MY GOD!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
www.redandtan.com - schedules Hudson County interstate routes - 33, 99, 122, and 144
www.redandtanlines.com - schedules for Bergen and Rockland interstate routes - 9, 11A, 11C, 14ET/K, 20, 21, 25, 84, Commuter Express (45, 46, 47, 49), local Rockland Transit routes 59, 91, 92, 93, 95, and Tappan Zee Express.
i was wondering about some things while waiting for the b103 this morning .
1. what bus was to recieve the first limited service in the 5 bouroughs
2. is it me but when i looked at the scedule did the b6 loose service?
Limited stop service was first introduced on the M 15 route I believe in 1974.
Knowing the TA they cut service when introducing the Limited Stop service on the B-6. It's their idea of service cuts Limited Stop service needs less running time then you need less buses
Then again the TA never takes traffic conditions in their planning.
Thank You
The MCI's are coming in now at Ulmer Park. As of Today, I believe that we have six -- there all in the garage being stored for now. None have seen service on the road yet. They are supposed to be assigned exclusively to the x27.
You can tell the TA expects to pack in more people on these busses. The schedule for the next pick is due out soon and 7 runs have supposedly been cut from the route. Bottom line -- Less busses; bigger headways between busses and more people on each bus. Just how the TA likes it! So much for easing overcrowding.
Shaun
Go there and Read!
http://assembly.state.ny.us/cgi-bin/showbill?billnum=a03818
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Whoa!
Does this include the express services as well? If this is the bulk of the NYCDOT franchise system, what will happen to the rest of the system?
Does anyone know when the remaining routes will go up for bid?
I shouldn't get too excited at this point - key words are "after becoming law"
It does not appear any vote has been taken, and in the actions section it seems this bill was sent to committee in January 1999 and again in January 2000, where it appears the bill remains. From prior legislative history, it looks like this bill has been submitted every two years since 1991.
It doesn't look like MABSTOA's getting a baby brother any time soon.
If and when it is approved this is merely the first step in a long protracted process to recapture the privates or allow other companies to bid on the routes.
Peace,
ANDEE
Beautiful POST-style headline. There's been no action on this bill since 1/5/00. The '1st of January' it refers to is the year following passage of the law, not 1/1/01. And since this bill has seen no action in nearly a year, I doubt we'll see it happen this year.
-Hank
Let's be realistic: The City Charter required the DOT routes to be put up for competitive bid back in 1992. The "private" carriers haven't allowed that to happen yet, and never will as long as their profit margins are guaranteed.
I haven't been following this thread, but someone needs to do something about that subject:
The Queens' privates to become TA property Jan. 1
Um hum!
C
[Let's be realistic: The City Charter required the DOT routes to be put up for competitive bid back in 1992. The "private" carriers haven't allowed that to happen yet, and never will as long as their profit margins are guaranteed.]
The above was someone's personal opinion and doesn't actuately represent the facts, e.g. not all the "private" companies are guaranteed a profit.
Mr t__:^)
[...not all the "private" carriers are guaranteed a profit.]
My understanding (based on conversations with a former DOT Transit Bureau employee whom I consider to be reliable) comprises the following:
1. Each company's profit margin is contractually fixed at 6%.
2. Each company bills DOT for all expenses (including wages and salaries, political campaign contributions, liability settlements, and "penalties" for bad service).
3. DOT adds 6% to the total expenses and writes a check.
Thus, the companies make money merely by existing, and they have a very strong incentive to NOT provide decent service and/or to overspend in providing whatever service they do operate.
.
#1 - [fixed profit] ... not true for ALL the companies
#2 - [ALL bills sent to nycDOT] ... again not true
e.g. QSC just gave Turkeys to all employees, nycDOT didn't pay for that.
e.g. the last contract Rudy came up with a max. number he was going to kick in & said that if the owners wanted to give the union anymore it would have to come out of their pockets. The owners agreed.
service).
#3 - [DOT adds 6% to tlt expenses & writes a check] ... also not true
The "privates" report what comes in via the farebox, what they collect from other agencies, e.g. Bureau of Pupil Transportation. And requests "subsidy" to meet the rest of the expenses. Some of the companies get a "profit" amount added, while some of them just work for a salary.
#4 - [Thus, the companies make money merely by existing, and they have a very strong incentive to NOT provide decent service and/or to overspend in providing whatever service they do operate.]
Sorry, not true again .... there are a number of ways nycDOT gets the "privates" where they live, i.e. witholds money,
e.g. If we don't "make service" we loose money (it's NOT made up)
e.g. If they find the buses dirty, etc. we loose money
The point is that nycDOT DOES do a number of things to motivate the companies to provide on-time, clean buses and in general provide a good level of service. Is it the best system, no ... could it be improved, yes ... how does it compare with the NYCT system, I think the "privates" are more accountable to the public then the TA is.
Well, I hope this enlightens some of you a little about complicated relationship between the City and the "private" bus companies.
Disclaimer: I don't work for the MTA, TA or nycDOT and am only a little "suit" here, so am just speaking for myself.
Mr t__:^)
NOT SO FAST, THERE, BIG GUY!!
Its only a bill. It has to still be signed into law, and up until now, that has NEVER happened and it likely never will. Its just a formality that has been taking place every so often. Nothing ever comes of it.
Mark
Trevor- This does not address Command Bus. What would become of Command Bus? Would they be included and thus BaQSTOA would be formed?
I see problems--already NYCT is trying to merge MaBSTOA into NYCT saying the division is arbitrary-- what benefit would the creation of a new OA be? why nto just make them NYCT
The benifit of forming the separate OA formed from a comapny that is private is thus, the employees do not become civil servants. This is true of MaBSTOA it's employes are not civil servants.
Peace,
ANDEE
[...separate OA....employees do not become civil servants...]
That was not the PRIMARY reason for the formation of MaBSTOA. The non-civil-service provision was meant to protect the jobs of Fifth Avenue Coach's employees, most of whom were "ineligible" for civil service.
At an rate, MaBSTOA is a subsidiary agency, which means that the TA side can always "contract out" to the OA side when needed.
Why were the 5th ave coach employees ineligible for civil service?
Peace,
ANDEE
in nyc--whats the diff between being civil svs.vs. non.--also my understanding if the t/a takes over these private lines do they grand-father the operators.does a 20 year man go to the bottom with his file
amazing how the cycle is --10 years ago t/a cutting service and crying wolf ,now buying existing routes.---dont forget hil clinton on her way to watch over you guys.--bill taking public transportation.
The NY State Assembly person who put up the bill is from Queens & therefore cares nothing for Brooklyn or Bronx, i.e. NY Bus Serv. & Liberty Lines.
Mr t__:^)
Boy, it would be interesting if that happened.
Routes like the Q-60 could get better service, plus articulateds (greatly needed). Just think of all those Classics the TA would inherit!
Would they have to keep the old liveries for a few years, like Greyhound does when it buys up companies? They were even allowed to switch buses and run them on different routes as long as the same number bore the old liveries (yielding the Greyhound Eagles, Trailways MC-9's and 8 years ago they had some 7000 Eagles running in Florida, colored yellow from this company they bought in Texas.)
• B38 CATALPA AV •
Another thing is thing is that The TA would have to break out its curtains again(for the Classics and the 85 RTS 's the DOT has )If this were to happend ever
Could you imagin how hot that would look! Man, Classics in TA paint scheme with the blue and red curtains, it's New Look Fever All Over Again!
Trevor
www.transitalk.com
They'd probably just retrofit them w/electronic destination signs.........
Peace,
ANDEE
As much as it will make sense for the TA to take over all the private lines none of the Cooper owned companies or Queens Surfice are being taken over for the forseeable future.
There is no need to speculate on what is not going to happen
Thank You
Why not? No harm in it.
Peace,
ANDEE
It would look pretty cool wouldn't it
So any news on this? Any movement on this bill?
Incidentally, why is it that so many local routes are private in Queens? There are only like two private local routes in Brooklyn, and none in the rest of the city.
Discussion of Winter bus schedule changes
M8,`10,16.34,,,,20 27/50, 79,86,101,102,
Bx 3 ,9, 10 ,22,40/42,,
B 4,23,25,26,36,38 39,52,67,68
Q 12 ,13,30,31,46,54,58,74,85
S 44/94,,46/96,,62/92,,74,78,79,
X 1 to 9,,,X13,x27 ,x28,x29 ,31,,63,,64,,x90/92
Articulated to be introduced to the bx9,x13,,x27
Staten Island & Brooklyn (YUK & UP)are atrics on top of the MCI's,Queens is really gettings shafted now
I think he meant to say the Bx9, Bx13 and the Bx27. Not the x13 and x27.
Bx13#5296Mike
Articulated are alredy running the Bx9 since last month, the Bx27 since last year and the Bx13 has had a few artics appear over the past two weeks.
Trevor Logan
Additions and changes:
1. The B48 is now colored green on the map.
2. There are circles which indicate limited service.
Mistakes:
1. For the B14, it shows the 3 and 4 trains in red.
2. There is no mention of the Sunday Limited Service for the B41,44, and 46 buses.
That is all I can remember off the top of my head. Ill come up with any more mistakes......
B14#4971Mike
B41#4602Mike
B44#9382Mike
B46#9424Mike
B48#9574Mike
This announcement sounds different on the new LI Buses. It sounds like a recording, not a computer voice, same as in NYCT Orions.
Since I rode the Q76 from Whitestone to high school in Jamaica from 1974 through 1977, I got to see what equipment ran on routes out of all three Queens depots. This also coincided with the opening of QV, which caused tremendous upheaval throughout the borough's east central quadrant. Before I begin, a breakdown of the sign fonts:
-OLD CAPS: Predominant through 60s: 16 FORT TOTTEN VIA FRANCIS LEWIS.
-SMALL PRINTED: late 60s, common on refurbushed R-16 roll signs: 16 Fort Totten via Francis Lewis Blvd.
-CRYPTIC: Standard TA font through 70s, very large letters: Q16 Ft Totten-FLB.
-DETAILED: Introduced on 1974 Flxibles; very small printed letters: Q16 Fort Totten via Francis Lewis Boulevard.
-ULTRADETAILED: Classic two-curtain introducted on 1975 Flxibles: Divided in half; left half black background showing route number and principal streets (Q16 Bayside Avenue Francis Lewis); right half red background showing destination (Fort Totten).
Now for a trip down memory lane:
FLUSHING:
-1962 Fishbowls 2002-2075. Some repainted blue, most seats repainted blue but some left green (2063). Some higher numbers, from 2027 up had those oblong 'spoilers' (I don't know what else to call them) towards the front of the roof; these were removed late 1975. No other FLU models had them. Most signs had Old Caps, a couple had Small Printed, and a couple had Cryptic.
-1966 Flxibles 5601-5645. Some repainted blue, most seats left gray except 5631. Oldest FLU model with wrap-around format and small 'bucket' seats. Signs mostly Old Caps, a couple Cryptic.
-1970 Fishbowls 4442-4455. All expect 4451 repainted blue, all seats left gray except 4447. 'Stars' on ceiling, foam rubber interior A/C cover. Signs evenly split Old Caps and Small Printed; 4453 Cryptic.
-1973 Fishbowls 6200-6229 (my all-time favorite!!). Gorgeous blue seat color that would remain standard on all remaining local Old Look orders. First with no 'stars' on ceiling, metal interior A/C cover. Most signs Cryptic; 6214 Old Caps; 6229 Small Printed. 6948 part of fleet, identical to others except gray seats.
-1974 Flxibles 7175-7204. First 'straight back' seats. Metal interior A/C cover. Detailed font on most; 7203-7204 Old Caps; 7178 Cryptic.
-1975 Flxibles 7590-7604. Seats identical to previous, but louvered upper windows replaced with continuation of blue exterior wraparound. Ultradetailed two-curtain sign on all.
-1977 Flxibles 9081-9090(?). Identical to 74s, but with Ultradetailed signs.
Tremendous reshuffling in early 80s due to Grumman problems. 1964 Fishbowls (3700/3900 series) and 1968(?) A/C Wingbats seen on FLU routes. Many 1962 and 1973 Bowls shifted to JAM. Some 1977 Flixbles with semi-padded, brown/yellow, front-facing rear seats (!!) previously seen only on SI.
QUEENS VILLAGE: (Virtually entire fleet given Cryptic signs)
-1962 Fishbowls 2091-2175(?). Seats slightly different shape (less rounded) than in lower numbers, as are attached metal handholds (square edged instead of tubular). Some repainted blue, most seats left green. Most with 'spoilers', later removed.
-1966 Flxibles 5646-5700. Some repainted blue, most seats left gray.
-1970 Fishbowls 4392-4441. All except 4407 repainted blue. All seats left gray. All with 'spoilers'.
-1974 Flxibles 7155-7174. Virutally only model on then-new Q88 for first year or so its existence. No 'spoilers'.
-1975 Flxibles 7605-7629. All with 'spoilers'.
-1977 Flxibles. Uncertain of numbers, but first one I rode was 9108 on Q31 in November. No 'spoilers'.
Early to mid-80s, older (1970? 1973?), A/C Fishbowls renumbered to low 5000s with A/C cut out, Ultradetailed signs and new, smaller front-facing rear blue seats similar in shape to those on current lower-numbered QS Novas.
JAMAICA:
-1962 Fishbowls 2076-90. Some repainted blue, seats mostly left green, no 'spoilers', most signs Cryptic, a few Old Cap. Seats and bars same shape as those on FLU, not QV.
-1964 Fishbowls seemingly random 3700s and 3900s. First model with 'bucket' seats. Some repainted blue, all seats repainted blue; on buses left green, front center-facing seats gray, rear front-facing seats pink. Most with 'spoilers'. Signs evenly split Old Cap, Small Printed.
-1970 Fishbowls 4345-4391. All repainted blue, virtually all seats left gray. All with 'spoilers'. Signs evenly split Old Cap, Small Printed, a few Cryptic.
-1975 Flxibles 7580-7589(?). All with 'spoilers'.
-1977 Flxibles. I think numbers ran lower than those out of FLU. No 'spoilers'.
In late 70s/early 80s, major infusion of 1973 Bowls from FLU and other depots.
Whenever I saw a FP bus (usually on B58 on Flushing), I marvelled at the mixture of equipment: Fishbowls in the 1000s (!!), 3700s, 6000s; Wingbats in the 8000s, Flxibles in the early 4000s (very common in the Bronx) and 7000s. ENY had many of these models, plus Bowls in the mid-4000s.
I recall that the 'minor' Queens routes (12A, 31, 44FS and VP, 75, 76, 77) ran almost exclusively newer buses, using 60s models only for school fill-ins. For that matter, all three depots used mostly 70s models on weekends as well.
For some reason, disco music is running through my head-
That's a pretty good post (and memory).
I'd like to add a bit of info. I grew up in the Bronx, but I saw FLU buses quite often since I lived near to West Farms Square. When a was about 10 I started becoming a bit familiar with QV buses as I used to ride them to my aunts house in Queens Village.
With the 1975 Flxibles (53102-6-1) you call their destination signs "ultradetailed", which is probably a good description considering their predecessors. These were the last curtain type (mylar) sings used on NYCTA/MABSTOA buses. In your description you stated the one half was black. It was actually navy blue for the route portion and red for the destination portion.
You also used the term "Old Look" in reference to a fishbowls. The fishbowls (which began production in 1959) and Flxibles were actually considered "New look" buses. The GM RTS and Grumman Flxible 870 started the ADB era.
Again - I didn't know a whole bunch about Queens buses, but I think with the 1977 Flxibles, FLU had from 9080 (or 9081) to 9089. I believe 9090 was at JAM.
The "Spoilers" you mentioned at the blisters that housed the radio antenna. FLU buses (as well as FI, FFS, HUD and WF) had small antennas identical to those on R-32.
Memories, memories
Wayne
GREAT JOB!!!
My contribution to memory lane takes me back to my HS days on the Q5A (now Q85) and the Q43 from 1979-1983. These routes were and still are JAM and QV's, so those are the two dominant depots in my memory.
Paint scheme code:
g=green
b=blue
w=white
Well, here is my recollection of JAM and QV depots in Sept, 1979:
JAMAICA:
1961 GMC: 1041g, 1059*g, 1074g, 1107g, 1126b. (5)
1962 GMC: 2117w, 2173w. (2)
1963 GMC: 3900, 3902, 3905-3907, 3909, 3911, 3913-3914, 3916-3919, 3922-3924, 3929, 3931-3937, 3940, 3942, 3945-3949. (31)
1971 GMC: 6164-6171. (8X--all blue)
1973 GMC: 6200-6309, 6312-6314, 6316, 6319, 6321, 6323, 6326, 6328. (119)
QUEENS VILLAGE: 239 Buses
1962 GMC: 2158b, 2159g. (2)
1963 GMC: 3691b, 3804b-3805b. (3)
1965 FLX: 5646-5700. (45--all blue)
1970 GMC: 4326-4455. (130--buses 4326-4341 were exENY, 4342-4391 were exJAM, 4395-4396, 4399-4401, 4408, 4422 were painted white; 4407 stayed green until 1981)
1971 GMC: 6172-6180. (9X--all blue)
1973 FLX: 7155-7174. (20--all blue)
1975 FLX: 7600-7619(exJAM), 7635-7644. (10--all blue, except 7635 which was white)
1977 FLX: 9090-9109. (20--9090-9099 were exJAM, 9100-9103, 9105-9106, 9109 were white)
6204 was left at FLU as well as 6311,these were the only 2 GM fishbowls amongst a predominately Flexible fleet ,that and 5630 was at QV(and it was still green in the early 80's.Also 1059 was at FP along with 1070 & 1081.
I remember seeing 1059 in Jamaica during my first year at HS. I had it on the Q5A quite often along with 1041 and 1107, then I stopped seeing it. I guess thats when it went to FP. Its now back at JAM as a museum bus.
Mark
1100-1130 spent many years during the 70's at FP. I think 1118 stayed green. 1112 was the first FP bus to be painted blue that I remember seeing. That was the only blue bus I ever saw without having the bottom blue stripe painted on the doors.
Ah yes. This topic certainly brings back memorys. I rode the Q4 and Q17A (now Q30) buses also when I was in HS from 1977-1981. I can back up everything Q5Merrick wrote about the bus assignments with only one difference. He says all the Flx's were in QV and the 6000's in Jam at 9/79. However, I remember riding 9090-9099 in Jamaica until I was nearing graduation, in mid 1981. I also remember when they started painting them in 1979 I believe. 9092 was one of the first to get painted. All 10 of them were not completed until about 1 year later. Afterwards, when all 10 were painted, they continued to run out of Jamaica for a short while until finally they left and the 6000's came in, which backs up my memory that the big transfer did not happen till around late 1980 or early 1981. Also, after the 9000's left, I looked all over the place for them, but never saw them again, so I don't believe they went to Q.V. as I definitely would have saw them.
The 1977 Flxibles are my favorite buses of all time. I finally saw 9094 in the back of Walnut depot, junked, when I was first hired for transit back in 1994. It had a Manhattanville sticker on her.
BIG AL
I think the 9000 Flexibles went either to ENY or 126 after JAM
126th ST. depot would be a good bet as I would have seen the 9000's if they had gone to ENY. depot.
BIG AL
I thought JAM 9000's might have gone to XT or FI - since this was the time when new ADB's (Grumman 870, and RTS) were brand new kids on the block. I remember the 9000's going to those depots that didn't receive any of the new ABD's. I remember KB's 9285-9299 ended up at ENY in the mid 1980's.
Wayne
XT did get some lower 9000's which replaced the 8000 series batwings. When XT closed, FLU recieved some of those 9000's. I rode one on the Q27 one time and the farebox still had "XT" on it.
I think might have gotten the same bus on the Q44 a few times,there actually was a few with XT fareboxes(one of which made to ENY a few years later)And I do remember the SI 9100's at FLU for a few months in the Mid 80's .They had the seating like NJ transits 7000 local new look Flexibles.and these buses where beige instead of blue on the interior with the split curtain destination signs(ala GBL & CTC)I think they had 9140-9149 if I am not mistaken.
Those ex-XT buses that FLU had were 9026-9035 I believe. Also I remember riding 9152 on the Q44 around that time.
Mark
I didn't know about the bus depots in the 1970s and the early 1980s. Can someone please tell me what "FI" and "XT" stand for. Could you also tell me where they were located and what routes operated out of them. Thank you.
I didn't know XT either. It stood for Crosstown Depot.
fi fifth av now jackie gleason xt crosstown rts b48 lorimer st
b61 crosstown b62 graham av now part of b43 b24 greenpoint av b59 grand st now q59 b30 kingsland av now extinct b18 wyckoff av b39 wmsbgh br
6948 wasn't at FLU until the mid 80's(caught her on the Q44VP)
[6948 wasn't at FLU until the mid 80's(caught her on the Q44VP)]
Not true - 6948 was delivered new to Flushing shortly after the low 6200's arrived there. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I used to see that bus often on the Q44A (now Q46) in her early years.
Didn't realize that,Then when I caught her in the Mid 80's it was her second time around like 1742 and 1745 presently
Amazing post...
I called those 'spoilers' "things in the front". You knew a bus was not from Flushing if it had one of those...:) Some buses got them removed when they got to Flushing (and the green paint under the blue paint showed... I don't think any in Flushing had them - until 7645 came over...It also had the ad on the A/C vent...
All the buses had 4 red lights in the back. the 2000's and 5600's lit only the bottom two... the 4400's and 6200's only the top two... and the 7100's and 7500's and 9000's all 4.
The 1975 Flxible's did not have those narrow windows (lourved) - and had that middle light on them a lot lower...
I am trying to remember what buses got painted white...
I remember 7196 got painted white late in her life....and I think 7603 got painted white late too...she wound up as a 'US Mail' bus in Manhattan...
No others got painted white that I remember
I remember the fare boxes with XT on them. What did that stand for?
flx7595
5780 was painted white also(the only 56/5700 to be painted in that scheme,but still had the gray seats). And the XT stood for the old Crosstown Bus Depot(now the TA's paint shop).Which in its last yr had the strictly the 8000 fishbowls which went to FP and the 9000 Flexibles( which went to FLU and few other depots I think).
The narrow windows that was referred to are known as standee windows. On the 1975 Flxibles, they did not have them because these buses were set up for Busoramas (batwings) which were never installed(except for 7753). That is also why the middle light was lowered from the roof level. My question is why were these buses ordered this way if the batwings were never installed? Was the original plan to have all the 7500-7900's carrying Batwings?
Does anyone have a picture of 7753 with the batwings or does anyone know where one exists on the net?
Also - This is a stretch but I remember that the back of 7577 was attached onto another bus (in Stengel in it's FLU days) - Back then the bus numbers used to be at the base of the engine door - until the engine doors would get replaced. I think it was attached to a 71xx but not sure. I always remembered how odd it was to have the wrong bus # on that base.
I am also searching for a picture of 7753 and Grumman 631 both with batwings. I did finally see a picture of 7753 at this years NY Busfest in one of those calendars Joe Siatta was selling but I'm sorry I didn't get to buy one. If someone has pictures of any of these two buses, posting them here would be greatly appreciated.
Today I took NJT route 171 to and from GS Plaza in Paramus. Going I had a Flxible, which could have had better pick-up, and there was alot of congestion around the Bergen Mall area.
Going back the bus was late, and another was right behind. This time it was a TMC RTS. I've never ridden on an NJT RTS before, but I was quite impressed. The bus appeared to be alot newer than the Flx, and was much faster and smoother. The engine seemed pretty quick. What do the RTS's on the 171 use? Also I noticed a fancy climate control (digital) on the dash.
There was some more congestion on Rt.4 in Teaneck, but otherwise a pretty quick ride. I left the mall at 5:18pm, got to GWB bus terminal at 5:40pm, and an A train (an R38, made a good ride through CPW). Got to 42nd by 6:08pm, and just made the 7X out of Times Square. Got to Flushing at 6:45pm, and made the 6:54 N21. Got home at 8:05pm.
It may seem like a long time, but from Paramus to Sea Cliff in 3 hours by transit is pretty good, just the luck of making my connections right!
The RTS's on the #171 are the newest batch, delivered within the past year or so. Almost all the Flxibles on that route are the 3000 series from 1989, although once in a while you'll find one from the 1993 series (1750-19??). Also, once in a while (particularly on weekends) you can find a 6000 series cruiser on that route. It is one of NJ Transit's routes with the widest variety of equipment.
Were you talking about the engines on the NJT RTS buses? I believe they are newer generation Cummins M-11 engines with a 5-sp ZF EcoMat transmission. They are essentially the same engines as the Flx Metro D buses.
Speaking of odd variety, some of the routes out of Washington Twp get a strange mix from time to time, namely the 400, 403, and 406 lines. I've seen MC-9A (6000-series), MC-9B (5000-series), Metro B Suburban (3000-series), and 30 ft RTS (2500-series) at various points on these lines.
I would like to know on why the Orion Surburban express buses are being put in storage at Yukon Bus Depot.
#1-Stop with the inane questions,and #2 Isn't it obvious ,YUK is getting far superior over the road coaches.When you have those ,they can be stored or shipped to CS for Local and Express service.
Just as a point of information, buses 2117 and 2173 were two very interesting buses. Known for running mostly out of 126th Street Depot, they ended their careers in Jamaica Depot in the early 1980's. Both of these buses were painted white with a royal (as opposed to a navy) blue stripe. They were one of only a handful of non-air conditioned fishbowls to be painted white. Most either were painted blue or they stayed green.
Bus 2173 was the only fishbowl to test the 2x1 seating pattern that would come on future Grumman and RTS orders.
Bus 2117, I believe tested a new suspension system. As is the case with current buses, there would be an occasional gush of air that would come from underneath the bus--unlike any other fishbowl.
Both buses had blue seats and 1963/66-style rear lights, as found on 3600-3949 and on the 8000's.
Mark
FP had 1070,1060,1057,1081 with the white/ dark blue stripe. A picture of 1081 is floating around the web someplace. I think I saw one of the 1100's and a 5600 in white/blue. Also, One morning I saw an ex OA 1965 fishbowl w/o ac (5270) on the B53 in white. That was the only OA non AC fishbowl I ever saw on a TA route.
It was a hi 5700(5781 prehaps that was blue and white still had gray seats though)and I lived in Ridgewood til 1983 and I don't remember 5270 at FP.The only 5200's I remember is the Blitz's in ther last days when some of them ran out of FP.FP also had a blue and white 8000 fishbowl(8120)and the last green 8000 fishbowl(8098)
I also remember 8120 and 8098 among others. As for 5270, the non AC fishbowl, I happened to look out my window one morning around 1980 and it was just pulling out of the bus stop. I was supprised by that number. That was the only time I had ever seen it. Might have went to scrap right after that.
It seemed that OA painted many more buses tha TA did. I say this because many of OA's 6401-6700 & 6701-6900 series fishbowls did get painted white. Also by the late 70's I don't think there were any OA buses left in the green paint scheme. However, green buses did operate on OA routes again around 1981 when a few TA TDH-5301's operated out of Coliseum for a short time.
One thing that remains a mystery to me is OA's TDH-5303 (3300-3555) group. These buses didn't last very long compared to other TDH-5303 because by 1976/77 they were all gone.
Wayne
At 9:35 PM this evening heading east on Jamaica Ave & 111 St., I observed these buses being trailed by a NYCT "patrol" car. Presumably, they were headed to Queens Village, or you never know, since bus assignments are never etched in stone, headed for Jamaica.
Probablely QV.JAM doesn't have the room for Orions ,the only other Depot able to handle Orions in Queens Village .Also how soon til CS sends some of its Orions to QV for A few RTS's
611-615 were going to QV. 616-630 are there already so 611-615 will join them. Jamaica will have Novas 9250-9271 AND 9345-9349 so why would they get Orions? Also, I'm afraid that white wheels are starting to arrive at QV. Saw 621 and 623 supporting them. 623 had the silver wheels when she arrived from CAS. The end of Silver wheels has come for QV.
It appears as though the only express routes on SI that will have "small" buses will be the X16, X18 and X20 out of CAS. Castleton Depot now has only 32 Orion coaches (#'s 141-172) and they will likely be used only on their shorter or less-patronized routes. The X10, X12 and X14 are much heavier than the 16, 18 and 20 and will probably operate MCI's exclusively. All of Yukon's routes will use MCI's--they have nothing else to use.
Mark
Those are aluminum wheels made by ALCOA i believe.
If you havent seen it, 135 out of stengel has them (for now). And 266 as well.
Yep, saw both of those. 8037, 8043 out of GH and 8480 out of HP also have them.
Q32#8480Gary
For those of you who had Queens buses 1740, 1747, 1751, 1752, 1755, 1767, 1773, 1819 and 1844(my pick) you are still alive! I saw all of these buses running in both local and express service this week.
Mark
I saw 1852 yesterday on the X68. She's still kicking too. My pick, 1755 is still going.
X63#1755Gary
im taking 1742 or 1745
My picks are 1819 and 1844 as the last 1982's however, the last few may all go out at the same time, so it could be an impossible call. 9346 just came back to Jamaica yesterday with a new paint job, so I wonder what will be scrapped next? 1740 perhaps? I spoke to the foreman yesterday while I was shifting. It seems 3870 and 3881 were scrapped in Jamaica because they had too many miles on them. I can't understand why they would paint 3870, only to run it for about 1 week! I might see if I can get a picture of her as this has to be the best looking scrap bus in the world. Not a single scratch on it. Even the wheels are still bright and clean. They would be better off selling it then scrapping it. Somebody really dropped the ball concerning that 3870 bus. 1746 also still runs and drives, but was in such bad shape, they had to put it to sleep.
BIG AL
I;m still saying its going to be 1745 at CS.There will not be a need for it if and when they get 115-129 from YUK(why would They send them to UP if they never had Orions before(QV tested 568 last yr before anyone says that QV never had Orions)and that they are getting MCI's
A: QV and JAM will NOT see any MCI's until at least they're about to be retired-MAYBE.
B: 1745 has been seeing spotty service in Flu-shing. Last I saw her, she was O/S along the Q13, Q16 and Q28 on 39 Ave but supporting a X32 to the Bronx sign.
C: 129 IS IN CS DEPOT as we speak. A friend of mine went there on Friday afternoon and under the boardwalk with a Yukon Decal on her, was 129. I believe he said 127 and 128 were on their way there also. I'm assuming that 101-140 will be in CS Service. Will CS Send 225-232 to MCH? Also, I saw 4191 on the Q15-got another pic of her, will be up on TW probably during Thanksgiving Break. And 4448 was spotted on the Q32. 1742 is sitting on the Out of Service Line at CS. Her days may be numbered.
D: I still beleive 1755 will be the last to go. I'm hoping to get a last ride on any 1982 RTS before they're headed to the scrapper. I'll try that probably on Wednesday. Even a 1985 RTS will do just as good cause I never rode 1 and that will be the time to do so. I'll keep you all posted.
The 3870 fiasco is typical of the TA not knowing their ass from their elbow. We had a similar situation at 126th St a few years back when many of our 1600 series received new paint jobs and were scrapped shortly thereafter. Currently some of our 4500 series are being scrapped with paint jobs that are a year old or less. Maybe the TA has an abundance of white paint that they need to use up.
4098 at FP was painted and scapped about three months later. This was a favorite at FP. Whilr I'm on the subject of FP, buses in their original paint scheme, 4202,4212,4207 and 4075 are said to be in excellent mechanical shape from the various drivers I speak to.
They'll get resold to either NYPD or another private carrier.
Q58#4212Gary
4098 was at FP twice; as an RTS and as a new look Flx.
So, I rode 4346-4356 twice out of JAM--as a 1986 RTS and as a 1970 GMC fishbowl. This is not an uncommon thing...I can go on. 4321-4345, 4429 at QV, 4448 at CS/FLU, 5100-5124 at FLA just to name a few are "dupe numbers" at the same depot.
Mark
I rode on 4075 on the B57 one Sunday a few weeks ago. Considering they have so few 1985's left, they shouldn't be running them on the weekend. Yes, it was in great mechanical shape, but between the poor road surface on Flushing Ave. and the age of the bus, I can't say that the suspension was shot, that bus doesn't have any!
Had achance to ride 3669 on the Q56.For a 16yr old bus ,she has pretty good pick up still.I know it is highly unlikely,But this bus deserves a soft seat conversion.This bus has good highway speed(namely cause i caught her on the Q58 when she ran out of FP 5-10yrs ago)
Im going all out and saying 1846 out of UP.
x28#1846Mike
Anyone picking a UP bus is out of their minds. They are currently receiving their share of MCI D4500's. You don't think they will run run 1982 RTS's on the X27/28/29 do you? Most likely, they will run the MCI's and the 1996 Novas, all the others are cooked, in all likelihood.
Mark
ok, im going with 1826, which was a former UP bus.
x92#1826Mike
I think they will hold on to them for local service for the time being.
Mike, that's what exactly happened to me this morning on the Q46. I rode bus 1751-run 033 this morning. The bus ran pretty good but the interior looked dreary and the Artic bookmark was in the front under thew number plate. Was a treat to get a 1700 on the Q46. Last time that happened to me was 1998 when I rode 1757-which is now dead. For you 1982 Suburban Bus fans, 1752 and my pick, 1755 are still kicking full smoke oo the Jamaica Express Routes. 3833, 3865 and 3869 were the 1985's that were still kicking. I hope to get another 1700 or 3800 again-hopefully on the Q46. We shall soon see.
Q46#PA1751Gary
I remember back in November 1998 observing 1742 on the Q46. What was unusual was that it was on a Saturday afternoon!
My choice is 1747.
Saw her on the X64 on Friday.
Me 2-what time did u see her? I saw her at 78 Ave on Queens Blvd.
X63#1747Gary
I'm still sticking with 1742. She may be out of service now - but she will be back.
(I hope)
I graduated from High School in 1984. I was riding buses to/from school for most of the time I was in school. I rode buses from all 3 Bronx depots, but mostly from Kingsbridge and Coliseum.
My favorite was the 1973 T6H-5309A, 1966 TDH-5303/AC and the Grumman Flxible 870's once they arrived on the scene. My least favorite were the 1970 Flxible 111C-D51, but they started to grow on me. I never really like Flxible new look buses until the 1977 Flxibles (9000-9309) came along.
In those days many of the newer buses stayed put but the older buses moved around from depot to depot.
I can remember the Bronx depots in the late 1970's - early 1980's as:
Kingsbridge:
GM TDH-5303 6401-6514 - later 6490-6514 were sent to WF
GM TDH-5303 8301-8371 - In the early 80's these were transferred to HUD
GM T6H-5309A 4813-4832, 4860-4919
1975 Flxible 53102-6-1 7833-7852
1977 Flxible 53102-6-1 9285-9299
1980 Grumman 870 721-770, 861-890, PA141-PA159
1981 GM RTS 2253-2262, 2281-2300, PA2445-PA2528 - I always liked 2281-2300 because they had the then new 6V-92TA engine.
Coliseum:
GM TDH-5303 6583-6609, 6651-6700
GM TDH-5309A 4833-4859
lots of GM 5300-5400 series buses
1970 Flxible 111CD-51 4664-4720
1975 Flxible 53102-6-1 7853-7877
1977 Flxible 53102-8-1 9160-9164
1977 Flxible 53102-6-1 9165-9184
1980 Grumman Flxible 870 771-809, PA160-PA175, 891-910
1981 GM RTS 2263-2280, PA2529-PA2579
West Farms
GM TDH-5303 6515-6582
Flxible 111C-D51 4600-4663
Flxible 53102-6-1 7878-7917
Flxible 53102-6-1 9185-9204
West Farms was one of those depots that did not receive any Grumman 870's.
There were still many TDH-5303 5200-5500 series fishbowls around but they were spread all over. Coliseum always had lots of them. I do remember 5352 at COL, 5382 at KB and 5391 at WF in the late 70's. These stand out because they one of the few to remain in their green paint scheme, the large radio blister (it had been removed from most of the others) and back windows was still a 3 piece (2 small and the one large piece.
Now those were the days...
Wayne
My days in high school on Bronx buses.....rode the Bx1 from Fordham down to Cardinal Hayes H.S. from 1964-1966 (the other two years were done commuting from Brightwaters on the LIRR...)
It seemed like there were still a lot of TD4506's and TDH4507's still plying the Grand Concourse in those days. I specifically remember #2728, we got that bus a LOT. It was in the green and cream paint scheme, with the black stripe separating the colors in a straight line just below the windows. It was slow, noisy, and stunk really bad in that old heap!!! It dropped HUGE clouds of smoke. If we were really lucky, one of the 3301-series fishbowls would show up but that was rare -- maybe MABSTOA knew how much trouble we high schoolers could cause.
I also would take the Bx41 down Webster Avenue, and change to the 149th Street crosstown bus. The Bx41 almost always got one of the 3161-3210 series TDH5301's, but on occasion we also got some of the 3260-series TDH5106's. The 149th Street crosstown bus seemed to have some TDH5303's, I'm gonna guess they were the ones in the 8000 series as I remember air conditioning and batwings.
In the afternoon, I'd be adventurous and use the subway to go home, usually taking the #2 or #5 from 149th/Concourse over to Third Avenue, and then upstairs to the elevated. R-12/14/15/17/21/22 cars on the #2 or #5 -- and Lo-V's and WF Steinways on the elevated. And that stinky, dirty stairway to get down to the #2/5 station platforms -- must have been the FILTHIEST stairway in all of NYC. Smelled like one big urinal. (The elevator was really slow, so if we heard a train coming, we darted down the stairs.)
Your memories bring some back for myself as well.
Excepting that I grew up in the Lower East Side and my main stomping grounds were the M14, and M22. I remember the first RTS's at Hudson in 1982 and how futuristic the interior of the bus looked. Also, making friends with many of the 126 St operators on the M22 learning their lingo and runs. One operator even let me sit behind the wheel of a RTS at the FDR Drive stop and that was a treat I would never forget.
I also remember when the Grummans were pulled out of service and what a strange hodgepodge of buses were running all over the place. Hudson received many old Fishbowls that didn't even have destination signs. When you looked up at the destination sign guide above the operators head you would see one with Brooklyn routes listed!
It has been a dream fufilled for me to now be a employee of Mabstoa.
That's interesting. Does anybody know what the difference is between the 1977 53102-8-1 #9160-9164 Flxible and the 1977 53102-6-1 #9165-9184 Flxible? I thought they were all exactly the same.
BIG AL
The model numbers should give you a clue.....those with the "8" had a Detroit 8V71 engine. Those with the "6" had the "normal for NYCTA" Detroit 6V71 engine. (The "-1" at the end of the Flxible model numbers indicated an air conditioned bus.)
Wayne, Steve, et al, Your memories stirred up plenty in me, too.
I shall print al lthe Bronx Bus memories and read them on the train tonight. (I still live up there!)
My bus riding began when I started DeWitt Clinton in 1962; my grade schol years were non transit as I lived around the corner from the school and church.
But once I started getting those weekly bus passes and semi-yearly train passes, that was the key to great escapes! I even did three summer school sessions, also with a bus/ train pass. I used them to death.
In the summer of 1964 I had to "do time" in summer session at Taft, on 170th street, off the Concourse. I lived in the hub, at 150th and Courtlandt. The Bx2 stopoped around the corner at 150th and Melrose.
Running slightly late one morning, I hot footed it down the 150 st hill to Melrose, only to find the green and yellow 4507 pulling away from the stop. Being the relatively "fit" teenager, I ran along Melrose to 152 street, up the hill to Courtlandt, and just caught the bus coming into the stop. Whew!! Made the bus, and to school, on time, to find the teacher absent!
Joe C.
Joe,
That was pretty good:-). Those bus passes helped me plenty too. I often tell people here (Wash DC Metro area) about how NYC students (that live far from school) ride public transportation to/from school and it's very rare to find HS students in NYC that own cars (or even have a drivers' license).
I had bus passes from the 4th grade right up through high school. By time I started using bus passes we had the monthly passes. I do remember my older brother and cousins had the weekly passes. I think they had the price stamped on them. 50 cents???? If I remember correctly these were MABSTOA passes. During Intermediate school we didn't get the MABSTOA passes any longer - we had the passes that lasted the entire semester, but later they were montly passes. Our school at one point would give us our monthly passes for the entire semester. We were supposed to pay a nickel with these passes, but it was so rare that a B/O would ask a student to pay that we'd just flash our pass and keep moving.
Wayne
Oh yeah, I remember those 50-cent weekly bus passes!
We also had subway passes too, but you filled out a form and got one that was good for the whole school year. (And when you lost it, you were out of luck unless you had print shop in school and printed yourself new ones!!!)
I wish I had a nickel for every time I forgot to change the pass in the pass holder. I'd be showing the driver the previous week's pass instead of the new one. WHo was the bigger dummy, him or me.
I thought I saw an old pass in my collection somewhere; not sure. But I do have one from Dec.1980 issued for Ave B & East B'way, just prior to their folding. It is orange.
Joe C.
Hi
anyone have a detailed info ....the MTA makes mention only,but sans detailed routings
Thanks
Steve
someone asked me to give details from the new agenda
Proposed Schedule
weekdays
AM 10
Midday 15
PM 10
HEADWAYS IN MINUTES
a change of .04%
-------------------------------------------------
X1 to X9
weekdays
AM 1
Midday 15
PM 1
a change of .2 %
Steve
What were the proposed changes for queens?
call me tuesday morning 914 668 9218
steve
I know this question has probably come up before, but does anybody know who is selling toy NYC rts's as I would like to get my daughter one for Christmas. Nobody in the depot knows anyone who has them right now and I've seen them in the past, but none recently. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
BIG AL
BIG AL
While at the York Train Show, there was a company from Mechanicsburg,Pa selling 10-inch plastic promotional bank buses.I would check there web site at royalcoachbuses.com to see if they have the type of bus you are looking for. They did have buses for the New York Transit system.
Good Luck & Have Fun
Ron J.
Thanks for the info, big brother. I'll check them out.
BIG AL
To Big Al and everyone else:
Depends on what size RTS you're talking about. The previous poster is referring a plastic Jimson Model #737 made in China. It is striped into NYC colors by Royal Coach of Mechanicsburg PA. That bus is available thru the Transit Museum Website for $14.95 plus tax + s/h. That site can be linked thru this one. I got mine at Bus Fest '99 from the museum store. They may have them in stock at their locations.. Perhaps you can call and check it out. They also had the MCI's that are discussed here. Your only decision is what route sign you want. They have several.
There is also a 6 inch friction version of the RTS also labeled "made in China". It says NYC bus on the side and is going to Union Square (no route #) and is not totally accurate. It has a window in back for one thing. Occasionally a seller on E-bay by the name of "b.rooster" auctions them off. I think he has two or three up right now.
Also Hot Wheels #3256 and Micro Machines set # 39(by Galoob) are poor imitations of an RTS slopeback. However these are only three inches in length and could end up in a small child's mouth instead of a toy chest.
Although not RTS's there is a Road Champs Flxible Metro D in NYC colors and there is a GM Fishbowl that says NYC Bus to Central Station. The GM fishbowl is a friction toy avail thru E-bay or perhaps street vendors in NYC. Its been mentioned before on this board that sometimes the GM is available for $ 24 / dozen on Canal Street.
Please note that I am not in anyway connected with anyone mentioned above.
There were some sold at the NYC Bus Fest this year. Maybe the Transit Museum has some. There was one with Q44 painted on the destination sign; I should have bought that one.
any one have that pic of 8808 sitting smashed in front of KB a couple weeks ago?
Check TransiTalk, Trevor Logan got 2 great shots of her. And on your posts, please specify MTA 8808 or WMATA 8808 so that we do not get confused what you're talking about. Thanks.
Didn't we have this discussion a few eeks back on how unless otherwise mentioned, we're assuming NYCT?
-Hank
i just assumed when i say 8808 99.9% of us would know what i'm talking about. it's a historic bus now --- the first 96 RTS to be scrapped.
any front runners for first orion scrapped?
or MCI??
Hope this satisfy your appetite for Ms. 8808!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
WHAT HAPPENED? OH, MY GOODNESS! HOW DID THAT HAPPEN? GASP! I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS! WHO DID THIS? (Sorry, I just don't know what to say.)
Long story short, It happen to avoid another accident only to cause this one.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Even though its probably another 5-7 yrs before we start talking about the scrapping of the Orion V's.The early favorite would be 174(nee 93074)which is the 1st transit Orion
wouldn't the first transit Orion be 173 {93073}
Oh yeah it is 173(93073).My bad
I did ride a "refurbished" Orion V on the Q28 today. It was 302, the backside of the bus interior looked new, still with a 6V-92 (although it's a new 6V-92, rebuilt).
I say 125, which hasn't seen service since it caught fire over 2 years ago.
-Hank
Orion 125 is in ENY Base Shop being repaired. This talk about scrapping Orions doesn't make much sense anyway. C'mon guys, you can do better than this.
Mark
orion 120 in a severe crash in the mid 90s sits idol at yukon for at least 6 months. it was repaired about two years after the crash only to suffer constant steering problems. another waste of money as will be 125.
Rode on 133 today on the Q76. Seats were comfortable and the 6V-92 engine is quieter than local version, but the ride was EXTREMELY jerky. I found it very hard to walk from my seat to the exit on the bus because it was constantly jerking and you had to make sure you don't lose your balance. If you don't get in the "comfortable" seat, then standing will be worse than on the other buses.
You know what's odd? I rode this Neoplan articulated bus on SEPTA, the first and only one I ever rode, and the back wall was covered with a blue felt carpet. However, on the other ones I have seen, they do not have this carpet. Does anyone know of any other new Neoplan Articulateds that might have the carpet on the back wall as well as bus 7209?
The New Flyer Artrics have the felt carpeting on the back walls(5200's and up).One can suppose that the Neoplans that Westchester Bee-line is getting next yr will have it (They are going to be artrics.
The new New Flyer Artics coming in have carpeted wals (not felt, it's called 'industrial carpeting' and stands up to anything short of burning) this keeps the muckety-mucks from scratching up the walls.
-Hank
The Bee-Line artics, interestingly enough, are going to have DDC Series 60 engines. I believe these will be the first artics to sport these engines. IIRC, the pilot bus is due in Westchester sometime early next year.
Speaking of Westchester, I had heard rumors that they were going to order some 30-ft buses to replace the remaining 200-series RTS buses. Has anyone heard anything about them yet?
Most of the 7100s do not have the carpeting. I believe the carpeting started around the 7170-7180 area, but I don't know for sure.
My biggest gripe about these buses are the TwinVision destination signs. The side signs are tough to read from some angles, especially at night. Plus, they've had a lot of problems early on with the side signs displaying differently from the front signs. For all of it's faults, the Luminator signs on the NABIs never had that kind of problems.
The 30 foot buses you speak of are going to be Gillags(ugh)and also the last 29 buses of the TA's last RTS (5220-5249)are equiped with the The Twin Vision signs and you can seee the front about a good 4 blocks down.(these signs are also used on the still unused New Flyer Vikings)
Did you notice that on the NABIs the front destination signs are only half lit. I mean, one side is lit and the other isn't. At least, that is what I have sen on a number of them. Also, about the side destination signs. It's odd, because although the rotue number is in bold, the destination is in the old fip dot style, which is pretty odd, yet interesting.
UPK Mci's are to be in passenger service starting Monday Nov. 20th. on the X27. With some luck I might get one.
Starting tomorrow there will be a real treat for Brooklyn customers, some supporting weird looking faces as they adore their new buses.
Most Brooklyn rider don't want them. I know one woman who the blind and uses a dog she dose not like them becouse there is on place for her dog to sit under the seats.
Robert
i always wondered about that. where the hell would the dog sit. would he sit on a seat next to the passenger.
This has been puzzling me for some time.Why does this bus has the interior seating of a New Look GM 3600.After seeing this pic again and again it just seems curious.It should have the same exact seating as New Look 1059
Thought some of you might be interested in my recollection of where new buses delivered to the TA between 1956 and 1967 were originally assigned. In some cases, I don't remember the breakdown of the exact numbers, so I'll estimate instead:
1956 - 6000-6309 Macks - the middle numbers went to Ulmer Park and the higher numbers went to Staten Island. The lowest numbers, I believe, went to E New York and/or Fresh Pond
1957 - 7000-7207 GM Old Looks. The first 100 or so went to 126th Street, the next 50 or so went to Flushing, and the last 50 or so went to Jamaica
1958 - 9000-9120 GM Old Looks. I believe all originally went to Crosstown, although 3 or 4 of the highest numbered buses appeared at Flatbush for a while.
1959 - 1-190 GM New Looks (the first ones for the TA) - all went to Flatbush, although the first 45 or so eventually were sent to 126th Street
1960 - 501-805 GM New Looks - the first 150 or so went to Fresh Pond, the rest of the batch went to East New York. 501-530 shortly were sent to 126th Street
1961 - 1001-1130 GM New Looks - all went to Fifth Avenue (today's Jackie Gleason)
1962 - 2001-2175 GM New Looks - the first half or so went to Flushing, the rest went to Jamaica
1963 - 3601-3950 GM New Look 5303's (the earlier ones above were 5301's). 3601-3745 or so went to 126th Street. 3746-3825 or so went to Crosstown. 3826-3906 went to Ulmer Park. 3907-3950 went to Jamaica. The highest 20 or so buses at Ulmer Park were transferred to Staten Island (for the first new look buses there) when the Verazzano Bridge opened and bus service started over it via today's S-53
1964 - 5001-5165 Flxible New Looks (the TA's first) - all went to Flatbush
1965 - 5601-5790 Flxible New Looks - 5601-5700 went to East New York; 5701-5790 went to Jamaica
1966 - 8001-8202 GM New Look A/C Batwings (sorry about the wingbats on my earlier thread!) - 8001-8040 went to Flushing; 8041-8080 went to Jamaica; 8081-8122 went to Flatbush; 8123-8202 went to 126th Street
1967 - 8801-89?? GM New Look A/C (middle numbers had batwings) - the lower half went to Ulmer Park and the higher half went to Staten Island.
My recollection of the post-1967 deliveries is fuzzier, because I moved away from the NYCity area in 1969 and because new orders after that tended to be split up somewhat more than in the past among several depots. But I thought the above info might be of some historical interest.
Even if it's not totally accurate, I would say you have one hell of a good memory.
BIG AL
I recall Macks also ran on the COney Island Avenue route at least during fall 1960-spring 1961. I remeber they were 60xx and 61xx nunbers. The Line ran from Bartlettt Prithcert Square (Spelling?) to Coney Island. I used the line during my 7th rgade days.
In those days, the B68 was operated out of Ulmer Park (rather than Gleason, as today), so the Macks dominated that route until Ulmer Park received its first new-looks in 1963. Even then, I think the Macks backed up the 3800 series new-looks for at least another 4 years until the 8800's arrived at Ulmer Park.
I'm curious to find out if anyone knows what criteria the TA uses when deciding when a bus is to be scrapped. Is it based on mileage or age? Who makes the final decision? Is it done by the individual depots or does the decision come down from the Chief Maintenance Officer? Why are there still 1982 model buses in service while 1986 models are being scrapped? Case in point, at 126th St Depot bus 4550 a 1986 RTS-T-80206 which I drove on many occasions and remember as being a good bus has just been scrapped. In the meantime, buses 4164 & 4165, both 1985 RTS-T80204 and both absolutely horrid pieces of junk, are still in passenger service.
I'd also be curious to hear from contributors to Bus Talk who live outside the New York Metropolitan area to find out what their local transit systems use as a criteria to decide when a bus is to be scrapped.
I would imagine that the number of road calls for a particular bus has a lot to do with it.
I posted here a few weeks ago regarding the retirement method of one of my local transit systems.
As I am sure you all know, the federal government requires that a bus be 12 years old -OR- that it have 500,000 miles, whichever comes first.
In my mind, any decent transit bus should make it 15-18 years easy, and mileage should never be an issue so long as the bus is well-maintained.
One of my transit systems, SMART, is probably the ONLY TA in the country which retires buses based on the latter of these requirements. Mid next year, SMART will begin to retire buses which were delivered in May 1993. Are these buses technically eligible for retirement? Yes they are; but I can't think of a single other transit system anywhere which will be retiring an entire fleet of 1993 buses in 2001.
SMART attributes this to the fact that they have the longest average route length in the country; I attribute it to negligent maintenance.
What is the mileage on the few 1700's in NYC still hanging around? I'm sure there are countless buses in the country which meet BOTH retirement requirements but are still in active service.
Neil Greenberg
Well LI Bus will usually scrap anything over 12 years, from what I heard (all the Gilligs are gone).
However I wonder how much longer the Cummins Orion CNG's can make it. These buses (100-245, 270-287, 657-666) are a majority of the LI Bus fleet and are in desperate need of some overhaul. The Cummins L10G engines are so slow, that lately it seems if a bus is late, it's a Cummins. The engines are loud, and do break down frequently. Most of the breakdowns I've seen (three within the past week) have all been Orions with the Cummins L10G engine in them. The older ones (100-130, 656-666) are really slow and break down extremely often. these are now at RVC getting rest on the weekend.
The new buses (288-35?)use the DD Series 50 CNG version and perform much better than the Cummins. The buses in this order are also designed much better, with better front signs.
LI Bus really needs to think about overhauling the older CNG buses and putting DD Series 50G in them, for the sake of the overall reliability of the fleet.
Milage & age make them a canidate ... then you need to be expecting a replacement, i.e. Green, Triboro, Jamaica, etc. are holding onto there old RTS because no replacements are on order.
Then you look at the maint. records. Some recent RTS went because they weren't made as well as the GMCs. You also need to factor in a bus that was in a accident ... even if it was fixed, it may have a structural problem or something like that.
The point is that many factors go into the decision, but 500,000 miles and a mfg. date in the 80's are the main reasons.
Mr t__:^)
Whats the deal with this bus? How come it havent arrived yet?
B67#866Mike
I'm not sure about 866 but there are still a few 900's at Atlantic Diesel.
866 is now in service effective yesterday! Thier is only one New Flyer C40LF not in yet.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Now that just about all of the New Flyer C40LFs are in, is JG going to still retain their RTSs, some of them being 1986-1987? Or, are they just going to keep them and not run them, like they do currently on weekends and holidays? I think it would be nice to know that whenever you get on a JG bus it will either be a C40LF or an Orion CNG, since the C40s outnumber the Orions over 6 to 1.
Well as of the completion of the New Flyer C40LF deliveries, Jackie Gleason will still not have a enough buses to run a full CNG operation.
At any given time, Jackie Gleason needs a good 250 buses to run service at peak times, plus the extras that lay around the depot. If you put all of the CNGs to service, that's only 221 buses, JG will still be about 30 buses short for service, so expectation is that as of right now they have 70 RTS buses, they'll probably drop that number to may around 50, but no less.
We'll see in the coming month what happens to the Jackie Gleason RTS fleet.
Continually check the TransiTALK Depot by Depot roster for changes in that garage, Click Here For That Roster.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Jackie Gleason will retain all of its remaining 1993 TMC RTS's (8518-8564), and some of its 1987 RTS's (46-4700's). The next order of CNG's may bring about 70 or so to JG (with the bulk of the 2001 CNG's going to Coliseum), which would make it a 100% CNG depot.
Mark
So JG is getting the same buses that were assigned to Coliseum?
The Orion VIIs? If anyone has any info about the buses, e-mail me at carlwal@hotmail.com. I just want to know. Maybe Transit will think of something else to arouse our minds.
The Orion VII (7) is a hybrid between a Orion V, Orion VI and a New Flyer C40LF.
It has the front of a Orion VI, the rear of a Orion V and the seating layout that of a New Flyer C40LF.
As many of you know we are getting 250 of these babies. 125 of them Hybrids for Mother Clara Hale (Where the Manhattanville Hybrids will join them) and the other 125 of the for Coliseum.
If Jackie Gleason receives 70 of the 125 CNG Orion 7s then that means that Coliseum will not be a full CNG depot because 55 Orion 7s will not provide sufficient service for the Coliseum.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
This description sounds interesting. If anybody gets a picture of an Orion 7, of any company, please send to me by nfi857@aol.com
On the N21 to Flushing this morning, a guy drinking a bottle of malt liquior, then leaving the glass bottle to roll around the bus floor after he got off.
In Great Neck, man stands in doorway of bus keeping it from leaving, waiting for his friend. Guy gets off, then friend arrives. Runs after bus, pounds on it, curses driver when he doesn't re-open door (this is in the intersection of Plaza south and Middle Neck road.
Some guy who smoked (outside waiting) and had a bad smoke odor, but it didn't smell like tobacco (illegal drugs??).
Well at least the three LI Buses I was on (N21 Flushing, N21 Glen Cove to Great Neck, then another N21 Glen Cove back home) were all the new buses, no piece of crap Cummins buses today!
This is true the only piece of crap bus with a Cummins engine on the N20/21 was 208
I am trying to update my roster for Transit Talk and I need some help. It seems as though the TA has hidden 12 buses. 1993 Orions 115-117, 119-124, 127-129 are ex-Yukon coaches that have seemingly disappeared. Buses 118 and 126 are in 207th Street Shop for their Series 50 engine changes, but I can't find the others. I checked all the TA storage yards, CS, JAM and QV and still no sign of them, and NO they didn't get scrapped!!! Has anyone seen these buses?
Mark
[1993 Orions 115-117, 119-124, 127-129 are ex-Yukon coaches that have seemingly disappeared....]
I saw 117 this afternoon at West 32nd Street & 7th Avenue (Penn Station), being driven by run 017 on the Q32.
I also saw a 100-series soft-seater on the Q74 this evening - the last digit was a 4, but I couldn't discern the middle digit, so it may or may not have been 124.
OK...thanks Le...I mean Gotham. I guess I didn't check CS close enough.
Mark
That was 114 with run 7 on the 74 tonight
I saw 117 on the Q32 heading to Queens this evening around 7 PM at 32nd Street and 6th, only to see 122 shortly thereafter on the Q32 heading towards Penn at 34th & 6th. I still maintain those Orions could have stayed in SI for some much needed South Shore service.
Anyone know what the story is with this bus? It has been running around for some time with a strange "box" directly under the windshield, dead center. I'm sure that the "box" opens up. It also has a tiny MTA logo on it.
Joe C.
Here's 8269 with the same "weird box" in the middle.
I believe the box is a sensor that makes the traffic signals turn green when buses are the 1st vehicle waiting for the light.
I haven't seen the pic (it's not loading) but if you're talking about what I think, it's part of the now-defunt system for satellite tracking of buses. I used to see this bus on 5th Ave all the time.
-Hank
I could be wrong - but I thought this was the device that warns the driver when the bus is following to close to another vehicle. I know Greyhound was using this a few years back - I think their system was call VORAD.
Wayne
I always wondered what it was that box was. Bus 8280 has one of those boxes as well.
Mark
I could be wrong but it could be something as simple as EZ Pass. The buses assigned to the M-35 have a similar looking black box mounted on the roof just before the radio antenna. When I inquired about it I was told that it was EZ Pass.
The EZPass box is much smaller, and mounted on the roof inside a black housing, the same way you would mount it on your windsheild.
-Hank
your mention of vorad made me think of the department of defense norad... perhaps the box is meant to detect incoming intercontinental ballistic missiles... in this manner, customers on board would have sufficient time to get down on the floor and hide under a seat to protect themselves from the harmful effects of a thermonuclear blast...
sitting idol in yukon are 14 mci buses due to lack of fareboxes. they are not needed presently as we have a surplus of mci buses. as of now nyct has no plans for extra service.
More fareboxes were ordered. There was a delay in the entering of the order, one reason was that the Mayor's office objected to the price increase. Anyhow the "private" group will be delivered first (we expect them any day now) ... the squeaky wheel got oiled.
Meanwhile there was some shuffeling around of the existing boxes amoung the "privates", i.e. who had spares vs. who had buses parked, so most of the "private" fleet is in service.
Mr t__:^)
Now let me get this straight. Staten Island has 14 MCI buses sitting, do nothing at all, because there are no fareboxes, and there is no rush to find some because there is a surplus of MCI's in S.I. with no plans to increase the service, so it's OK for these buses to just keep sitting there collecting dust, yet the people in S.E.Queens are still riding around in 18 year old buses with torn seats and hard suspensions. Maybe it's just me, but why do I feel like the people in S.E.Queens are getting jerked off more and more as time passes.
BIG AL
2757 and 2758 have had fareboxes installed but are sitting on the defect line having yet to see service. how a new bus could be a defect i dont know. 2747,2748, 2750-2753 and 2755-2762 have no fareboxes. thats a total of 12 without fareboxes and i dont believe there are any in the system.
Was driving on Hempstead Turnpike westbound near Hofstra University this AM and saw the following added to a LI Bus Stop Sign
N90 Hempstead-Lat Nights Only
Does any one know anything about this route
Thank You
It's a new route that serves Roosevelt Field "The Hub" area, and Hempstead late nights only (after 10pm). The fare is $1.50.
see SubTalk for more info on the subway info. Here is the bus route for the 238 to 241 shuttle. All directions are based on geographic directions which may or may not be system directions.
East on Nereid
North on Baychester
West on 241
South on White Plains Road.
Bus supervisor at 238 and White Plains.
Sign info:
Code 9008 "2 train to 241st St"
Code 9009 "2 train to 238th st"
I do not have the code or signs for Gun Hill Service but the bus will run on White Plains Road.(Saturday 6am till 7pm Sunday)
IMPORTANT: This bus will run weekdays when the BX41 is not running and will run from Gun HIll on Weekends.
As of now, even the booth will be closed as will the mezzanine so buy your MetroCard at another station!
The G.O. will run 24 hours daily from 11/27/2000 till 12/20/2000.
For More info please see my SUb Talk post on this subject.
Is there anyone on this site who's familiar with or has some knowledge of a fomer NYC Omnibus route operating on the lower east side of Manhattan....it was Route 22: Pitt & Ridge Sts. I believe it ran on those streets between Houston and E. Bway(?)?
Carl M.
[...NYC Omnibus...Route #22...]
I have a 1946 Hagstrom map of Manhattan showing all routes operated by NYC Omnibus, Fifth Avenue Coach, East Side Omnibus, Comprehensive Omnibus, and Third Avenue Rail System. Route #22 is clearly there, running from Houston Street to South Street along Pitt and Ridge Streets.
Gotham....At that time, there probably was a need for a lower east side "crosstown" line. By the time the 60's rolled around many of those streets were cut off because of housing project construction. There's hardly anything left of Pitt St. as a result.
Carl M.
As I left work this evening I was startled to see two New Flyer articulated buses,Nos 5406 & 5407, parked on the apron in front of 126th Street Depot. Upon further examination I discovered that both buses were without fareboxes but still had Kingsbridge Depot logos affixed to them. The speculation among my colleagues was that the two buses were brought to the depot to be used as training vehicles. In addition one of my colleagues said that the total number of artics being assigned to 126 is 110. Upon returning home I contacted the most accurate source for bus news in the NYC metro area. That of course is Trevor Logan. Trevor confirmed that 110 articulateds are scheduled to be assigned to 126. The assignment is as follows:
1) Buses 1095-1109 will be transfered
from Kingsbridge to 126th St.
2) Buses 5510-5605 to be delivered new to 126th St.
In addition Trevor stated that Michael J. Quill Depot will receive buses 5606-5649 new from New Flyer.
It about time the M15 is getting the artics.They wer suppose to get the initial ordre 5 yrs ago after they were tested on the 15).But come to think of it ,it took the Orions 8 and 10yrs initially to get to the Depots were tested (MCH-M1 and QV-Q46)
Let us all give thanks for all blessings our families have received this year.
Thanks to David Pirman for this board.
We should all take a moment out and send our thoughts and prayers to the family of the B/O who died last Thanksgiving in a collision with a Fire Truck in Brooklyn.
An interesting observation last night: I saw RTS #4191 heading south on Main Street near 76th Road, completely devoid of advertisements. I didn't get a glimpse of the destination sign, but I'm sure it wasn't in service, as the Q20A/B and Q44 are exclusively Orions.
I also caught #111 in use as a training bus at 34th & Madison yesterday afternoon.
4191 is operating out of CS. Either it was running on the Q44/Q20 or the Q74.
Here is a pic that I recently took of 4191 on Roosevelt Ave.
Enjoy and have a Happy Thanksgiving from the TransitWorld family!
Kevin Barsky
DaShawn Pretlow
Jorge Catayi
Jason Davis
Shelley Washington
Marques Boles
Here is a pic that I recently took of 4191 on Roosevelt Ave.
Enjoy and have a Happy Thanksgiving from the TransitWorld family!
Kevin Barsky
DaShawn Pretlow
Jorge Catayi
Jason Davis
Shelley Washington
Marques Boles
Can you match up the old TA route number to the current route number? Can you identify which TA routes have been discontinued or usurped by other TA routes. See if you can by taking the following quiz! I compiled this little ditty by matching up the current 2000 Queens Bus Map with the 1975 Queens Bus Guide.
Good luck! Answers will appear in the following post. Here are the old NYCTA routes:
Q3A
Q4A
Q5A
Q5AB
Q5S
Q5AS/Q5ALS
Q12A
Q17A
Q44A
Q44B
Q44FS
Q44VP
Q89
B22
B53
Here are a few routes that either did or did not exist back in 1975.
Ran in 1975, now discontinued:
N5(MSBA) Jamaica to Grant Park via Merrick Rd
Q21A(GBL) New Lots Ave.IRT station to Far Rockaway via Pitkin Av/Cross Bay Blvd/Edgemere Av
B30 BQE/48 St.Queens to Kingsland/Meeker Avs. The weird thing about this line was it's operating hours: Weekdays from 545am-845am/ 215pm-615pm/ 945pm-1245am. Saturdays were just about the same.
Didn't exist or didn't operate in Queens in 1975:
X51, N3, N20, N31
EXTRA CREDIT!!! Can you guess what the route of the OLD Bx21 was?
Can you match up the old TA route number to the current route number? Can you identify which TA routes have been discontinued or usurped by other TA routes. See if you can by taking the following quiz! I compiled this little ditty by matching up the current 2000 Queens Bus Map with the 1975 Queens Bus Guide.
Good luck! Answers will appear in the following post. Here are the old NYCTA routes:
Q3A
Q4A
Q5A
Q5AB
Q5S
Q5AS/Q5ALS
Q12A
Q17A
Q44A
Q44B
Q44FS
Q44VP
Q89
B22
B53
Q18X
Q20X
Q24X
Here are a few routes that either did or did not exist back in 1975.
Ran in 1975, now discontinued:
N5(MSBA) Jamaica to Grant Park via Merrick Rd
Q21A(GBL) New Lots Ave.IRT station to Far Rockaway via Pitkin Av/Cross Bay Blvd/Edgemere Av
B30 BQE/48 St.Queens to Kingsland/Meeker Avs. The weird thing about this line was it's operating hours: Weekdays from 545am-845am/ 215pm-615pm/ 945pm-1245am. Saturdays were just about the same.
Didn't exist or didn't operate in Queens in 1975:
X51, N3, N20, N31
EXTRA CREDIT!!! Can you guess what the route of the OLD Bx21 was?
OK, here goes....
Q3A = Q83
Q4A = Q84
Q5A + Q5AB = Q85
Q5S = Q86 (didn't last long)
Q5AS discontinued
Q12A = Q79
Q17A = Q30
Q44A = Q46
Q44B discontinued
Q44FS = Q20
Q44VP = Q74
Q89 discontinued
B22 = Q24
B53 = Q54
Q18X = X18 = X68
Q20X = X20 = X63
Q24X = X24 = X64
The N5 was replaced by N1 extension to Hewlett.
B30 basically accomodated shift changes at the factories and warehouses in Sunnyside and Greenpoint.
Old Bx21 was originally a branch of the New York Omnibus route TB (Triboro Bridge). It ran from 138th & Jackson in the Bronx to 24th Avenue & 35th Street in Astoria, and may or may not have diverted through Wards Island.
Do I get a prize?
Damn you're good.
I was going to give you the highly coveted official SubTalk used toothpick as a wonderful grand prize for your vast knowledge!
However you said 24 St-35 Av for the Bx21 when my map that is NEVER EVER WRONG (tongue firmly planted in cheek) said 37 Avenue. Therefore after consulting with the highly biased Queens Bus Guide quiz judges, you are not eligible for the highly coveted used toothpick. You however will receive a free roll of SLIGHTLY USED Marcal Toilet Paper(retail value 35 cents)!!! E-mail me your address and your wonderful prize shall be shipped first thing Thursday via Fourth Class mail.
Congratulations Mr.Gotham!!!
By the way Gotham, I would have only gotten 7 right and would have missed the Bx21 question.
Gotta hand it to you though, you know your stuff!
Well, I would have only gotten about five or six right, but I do know that the FS in Q44FS stood for "Flushing Shuttle" and the VP in Q44VP stood for "Vleigh Place," probably the only line in the city sub-lettered based on the main thoroughfare of operation.
Was the reason for the elimination of "sub-routes" a Federal mandate -- the same Federal mandate that forced the elimination of double-lettered subway lines like the CC and GG?
How could the city have allowed such cumbersome designations like 44, 44A, 44B, 44FS, 44VP, 5, 5A, 5AB, etc. to exist in the first place, especially when many of these grouped lines have very little relation to each other?
[How could the city have allowed such cumbersome designations like 44, 44A, 44B, 44FS, 44VP, 5, 5A, 5AB, ....]
[How could the city have allowed such cumbersome designations like 44, 44A, 44B, 44FS, 44VP, 5, 5A, 5AB, ....]
Very simply: it was a way for the private companies that ran them to start up new routes by calling them "branches" of existing routes and "piggy-backing" on previous franchises.
Ploys like that, plus a little palm-greasing, can work wonders; just look at the companies running today's DOT routes.
The M14A, M14C, and M14D ran on Avenue A, Avenue C, and Avenue D, respectively.
The Q44B was renumbered as Q71, but it was almost immediately axed.
Mark
What you mean by "almost immediately axed"? Was there service for a month or less time?
Q71#522Mike
The Q71 wouldn't have been 522 -1522 most definate but not 522
The Q71 was only renumbered on paper only...it never saw the light of day in service. It was axed on the Q44B's last day of service.
Mark
[Didn't exist or didn't operate in Queens in 1975:
X51, N3, N20, N31]
Don't know why it isn't shown on the 1975 map, but the N3 had rush hour service to Jamaica in 1975 and for many years before that.
You're right Sid. After consulting my trusty 1975 MSBA Nassau County Bus Guide, it shows that the N3 DID operate to Queens back in 1975. It was listed in the map as the "Slabey Express".
Also, the N31 did operate to Queens as well. Back then the N31 was known as the N32W and the N32 was known as the N32C.
For you MSBA(LI Bus) fans, here were the routes in operation in 1975:
N1,2,3,4,5,6,14,15,16,16A,19,21,22,22A,22B,23,24,25,32C,32W,33,36,37,38A,38B,39C,39D,40,40B,45,51,51A, 51B(ran Sat.only), 52,52B,53,57,57A,57B,58,62,63(City of Long Beach),69(MSBA),72,72B,72C,72G,73,77,79,79A,80,80A,82.
Wow, I'd like to see that 1975 map. You should scan it so we can see it on nycsubway.org.
I see there was no N20 or N27. But the N21 was around, I guess the route has been the same for quite some time.
I would attempt to scan it but I have absolutely NO CLUE as to how to do it.
If someone could explain how to scan it (in the most childish words possible since I am a computer imbecile), then I'll try it as long as the scan does'nt damage the map.
Heck, I have a bunch of stuff that I would like to sell on e-bay but I don't know how to post the pics. Can anyone help me with this too? (Again in simple words please).
Thanx.
Well a scanner shouldn't damage the material it's scanning. It should be similar to a copier, except that the data is stored on your computer, not printed in paper.
I'd like to see what the routes were like though. I'm sure someone on here could give you scanning tips.
I don't have a scanner myself, so I can't really help you with this one. And I'm signing on from my new Juno account because Spec.net (now owned by Spectrum DSL) won't connect to my computer. I never had any problems getting through when they were spec.net, but now that their main customers are DSL I guess we dial-up users get the shaft and unreliable service.
Well at least I picked up a disk for free Juno and I'm here, otherwise I wouldn't be.
I thought the B30 stopped running after the p.m. rush? I remember only one run was available to pick. It was a very high seniority job. The rest of the service was covered by one or two overtime runs for the rush hours. I think they are referred to as "extras".
I can speak how the jobs worked at the end of the reign of the B30. The 2 AM jobs were acturally classified as B24 runs. Their first half was done on the B30, they would return the bus to FP, have lunch (swing), then d/h to Marcy Ave. and do one trip on the B24.......For the PM, the hours of service were longer, starting around 2 PM. For some reason, there were 4 jobs, all extras (specials). The first 2 would pull out of FP, work for 3 hours and then pull the bus into FP and clear. But before they would pull in, the later 2 extras would pull out of FP and take over for the 2 earlier extras. Saturday service was really weird. There was service ALL DAY! There were 2 runs, relieving themselves for lunch, sometimes both buses were running at the same time! Not much revenue came in on them and the TA wisely decided to eliminate them. When the B30 was eliminated, there was talk of rerouting the B24. That wouldn't work because they would have to cross the Greenpoint Ave bridge not twice, but 4 times in a round trip, and in opposite directions on the same trip. I can't explain it, I'd have to show it!......Run 002 on the B38 is really bazarre. Gotta hand it to the TA for getting productivity on this run! During the midnite hours this does trips on both the B38 & B52. Then he goes to lunch (swing), keeps the bus, does one trip on the B20, keeps the bus, then does his last trip on the B38!
Here is how the B24 would be if not crossing the BQE: Leave Greenpoint/Manhattan over the GPT Ave. bridge to Sunnyside (first time), but to leave Sunnyside it would have to cross it again in the opposite direction (second time) to access the other side of Greenpoint and get into Williamsburg. From Williamsburg, instead of turning off Kingsland Ave at Meeker, it would continue down Kingsland to Greenpoint Ave, right onto bridge (third time), another right after it onto Review Ave and continue to 48th St., around to Sunnyside and then return via Greenpoint Ave. from Sunnyside, over the GPT bridge again (fourth time) to Gpt/Manhattan. This also means that if you see a bus eastbound or westbound on the Greenpoint Ave, bridge, both buses may be going to the same termination point, or maybe to the other terminal, or maybe one to each terminal! Really confusing!
Thank you for the interesting explanation.
On the final pick for the B-30, there were two runs to pick; Run 1, with RDO; Sun-Sat; Run 2 had off Sun-Mon, with Monday covered by Work Run B on B-39. Also, Run 1 on Sat. was done by work run A on B-39.
Here are the answers:
Q3A is now Q83.
Q4A is now Q84.
The Q5A and Q5AB were combined into the current Q85 route.
Q5S was discontinued. It operated during rush hours between the Rosedale LIRR station and 148 Av-257 St via Francis Lewis Blvd.
Q5AS/Q5ALS was discontinued. It operated during rush hours between 229 St-Merrick Blvd and 147 Av-243 St via 225 St with a 45 minute headway on the AM's and 30 minutes on the PM's. It was listed as Q5ALS in the map.
Q12A is now Q79.
Q17A is now Q30.
Q44A is now Q46.
Q44B was discontinued. It operated between 14 Av-Parsons Blvd and 3 Av-Whitestone Pkwy via 147 St weekdays from 7am-7pm.
Q44FS is now Q20B.
Q44VP is now Q74.
Q89 was discontinued. It operated between 82 St-Northern Blvd and Queens Blvd-Grant Av. via Broadway. The line ran 7 days a week from 830am-5pm at 40 minute headways.
B22 is now Q24.
B53 is now Q54.
Q18X is now X68.
Q20X is now X63.
Q24X is now X64.
Extra credit: The Bx21 in 1975 operated between 24 Av-37 St Astoria and 138 St-Jackson Av in The Bronx. via the Triboro Bridge. It ran from 630am-10pm seven days a week at 40 minute intervals.
Also the Q55,56,58,59 used to have a B instead of a Q.
ALSO, the Bx21 and the M35 were once called the "TB" operating seperate branches; one from Astoria to The Bronx and the other from Astoria to Manhattan.
The Q89 was previously numbered 16 (no preceeding borough letter)operated by MaBSTOA. Along with that, the Q32 was the M32 and prior to that the #15(Fifth Ave.15).
The Q44B didn't run straight thru from 7am to 7pm if am not mistaken .It ran like the way the M30 runs now .7am -10am then from 3pm -7pm
The Q44B ran from 7:00 am to 7:22 pm Monday-Fridaywith no interruptions in service(in 1975 anyway).
It had a 20 minute interval on AM and PM rush hours and every 21 minutes during midday hours. (Why 21 mins. I don't know).
Happy Thanksgiving From The TransiTALK Family
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
NORTH-BOUND: via Adam Clayton Powell, stay right to end and bear left into Macombs Place (South-Bound);Right turn on 151 St.; Left turn on Frederick Douglas Blvd; Right turn on 145 St.;Right turn on St. Nicholas Av, bear right into St. Nicholas Place and regular route after 155 Street.
SOUTH-BOUND: via Edgecomb Av. to 155 Street; U turn Harlem River Drive service road southbound bear right into Frederick Douglas Blvd; left turn on Macombs place to end and bear right into Adam Clayton Powell Blvd and regular right.
Thank you ,,I needed this info
Steve
On this Thanksgiving Day, please remember in your prayers at the dinner table, B/O Angel Gautier of jackie Gleason Depot, who died in the line of duty last Thanksgiving Day, while operating on the B63 line. I read elsewhere of a memorial service planned for Monday the 27th at 11am at Gleason where they will present his family with a plaque and/or put one up in the crew. I'll try to find the posting (think it was on surface-united), but if i can't i'm sure someone else can follow up.
Happy T-Day everybody!!!
I have noticed from the J train, the Manhattan Bound bus on the bridge rides the center lane line (using both lanes.)
Are they too wide for just one lane
The lanes on the Williamsburg Bridge are awfully narrow. Even SUVs often straddle the line. I'd be very surprised if a bus could fit in a single lane.
Buses can fit on the Willie B in one lane but when they get to the collum the road get norrow, so bus driver are told the do this to keep from getting forst over when getting to them.
Robert
From Steve ,Trish and Family
someone posted that mci buses at up would see service this week. ive yet to see one. anyone know the story. how many are at the depot.
4 Buses are at the depot now!
Trevor Logan
More like 8 buses are in the depot.
The first one went into service Wednesday morning. One bus on one run for one trip. The union has filed a grevience claiming the bus are not safe to carry standees, no barrier bar for the operator, no foul weather gear to operate the W/C lift in inclement weather. And a couple of others. That is why you have not seen the MCI's in service.
This one should be a bit easier for most of you. I'm gonna start easy and see if I can make it a little tricky for you towards the end.
Just like before, I compared the current 2000 Manhattan Bus Map to the 1974 Manhattan Bus Guide. Good Luck! Answers will be in the following post.
1)What were the old Manhattan route numbers for the following lines?:
M13
M23
M42
M66
M79
M86
M96
M116
X92
2)In 1974, what were the route numbers for the 57 Street and 59 Street crosstown lines?
3)What NYCTA(1974) discontinued crosstown bus route operated south of Houston Street? Also what were the "via" streets?(Example: The M16 runs via 34 St).
4)What bus line ran between 125 St-Lexington Av and Wards Island in 1974?
5)What were the old numbers for the Culture Loop lines that served Manhattan in 1974? What days did they run?
6)What were the FIVE southern terminals for the M10 route?
7)In 1974, the TA used to offer the "Midtown Shopper's Bus Ticket". How much did it cost then? What were the four boundaries(known as the "grid area") that you could board the bus with this ticket?
And now the tricky question. If you get this, then you're good!
8)What two routes operated over the Manhattan Bridge?
Here are the answers to the Man. bus route quiz:
1)M13 was a goof. Sorry. I meant to put down M8. So the current M8 used to be the M13.
M23 was the M26
M42 was the M106
M66 was the M29
M79 was the M17
M86 was the M18
M96 was the M19
M116 was the M20
X92 was the M23X
2)The 57 St x-town was the M28 and the 59 St x-town was the M103. Funny thing about the M28, at both the east and west terminals, it ended at 55 Street.
3)If you said the M8(via Grand & Broome Sts.), then you are incorrect. At the time of discontinuance it was a TA line, but back in 1974 it was operated by the Avenue B & East Broadway Transit Company.
The correct answer is the M12. It operated between Watts St-6 Av and Delancey-Mangin Sts. via Prince, Spring and Delancey Streets(if you got 2 of the 3 via streets, consider yourself correct). This bus ran rush hours only at 43 minute intervals with only 3 trips in each direction on both the AM and PM rush hours.
4)The M34. It ran seven days a week between 530am-1230am.
5)The old culture loop lines that ran in Manhattan were the M41 and the B88(in my opinion, this was the easiest question). They ran on Saturdays-Sundays-Holidays only.
6)The five southern terminals for the old M10 route were:
Park Place-W.Broadway
W.Houston St
3 St-6 Av
Abingdon Sq.
Pier 40
7)The ticket cost 75 cents. The four boundaries were 59 St/32 St/3 Av/8 Av. You could get off anywhere you wish, even outside the boundaries. The ticket was valid:
Mon-Fri 930am-430pm/ Thur.eve. 630pm-10pm/ Sat 930am-630pm.
8)The two routes via the Man.Br were the B63 and the B88. The old B63 ran between Canal-Lafayette Sts and the Flatbush Av LIRR station.
On 4), isn't that the M35, not the M34?
No, it was the M34.
The M34 and M35 were two separate services that operated at the same time in 1974.
The M34 operated between Lexington Av-125 St and Wards Island via Randalls Island.
The M35 operated between Lexington Av-125 St and Astoria, Queens and bypassed Wards & Randalls Island.
I thought the old B15 ran between Manhattan and the LIRR Flatbush station......
B46M Limited
It did, but before that, it was the B63.
The 1974 map is at the following address:
http://www.nycsubway.org/bus/maps/1974man4.jpg
Things are getting a little interesting here.
Everyone has been saying that the B15 was going over the Manhattan Bridge instead of the B63. I knew myself that the B15 went over the span at one time. Well the 1974 Manhattan Bus Guide says the B63 went via the Bridge(you can see the 1974 Manhattan Bus Guide for yourself at http://www.nycsubway.org/bus/maps/1974man4.jpg ).
So I was looking for my 1974 Brooklyn Bus Guide to confirm this, but I could'nt find it. So I instead looked at my 1969 Brooklyn/Staten Island Bus Map and lo-and-behold it said B15!
What could have happened? Could the B63 have been a temporary replacement for the B15? Could they have temporarily changed the route numbers in Brooklyn? Could it have simply been a misprint in the Manhattan Bus Guide? Personally, I'm leaning toward the misprint factor.
The only way is to find the 74 Brooklyn Guide and compare it.
Stay tuned!
too bad you posted the abswers son quickly. I knew all but number 7. Another good question would have been to list the depots each route was assigned to.
Wayne
That's why I placed the answers on another post. Got 7 of 8? Very good!
As far as the depots, I wouldn't know that. I was 3 years old at the time. All I did was compare the two TA issued bus maps from 1974 and today.
This one I know is an error -it wasn't the B63 that ran over the Manhattan Bridge,it was the B15(Not the one that used to be the B10 either).The B63 always was the Atlantic/5th Avenue bus.You were rt about the terminals though.
Sorry Steve, but you're wrong. It was the B63 that ran over the Manhattan Bridge.
Check out the link and see for yourself. If the link does'nt work then just type out the address below.
http://www.nycsubway.org/bus/maps/1974man4.jpg
The B15 might have replaced the B63, but the change did not occur in 1974.
I haven't tried to look at the map, but I have to agree with Steve. The B63 never ran over the Manhattan Bridge (at least not in the 1970's). I had forgotten which route ran from the LIRR Flatbush Avenue Station (Hanson Place) along Flatbush and over the Bridge, but the B15 does ring a bell. (I recollect a B19 route, but that may have run from the same terminal near the LIRR station to somewhere else in Brooklyn.)
Back in 1974, it was the B63 that ran via the Manhattan Bridge. A couple years later, it was replaced by the B15. Here is the address to view the 1974 map:
http://www.nycsubway.org/bus/maps/1974man4.jpg
Out of curiousity, what was the southern terminal of that B63 that ran over the Manhattan Bridge back in 1974? What that B63 an extended version of today's B63?
The B-63 never ran on the Manhattaan Bridge. What happened was the B-15 may have been on one table with the B-63 (such as the current M3/M18,M16/M34,M27/M50.
The bus ran in service on the B-63 between 36th Street and Flatbush Ave.
That is why the confusion is. The B-15's terminals were
Manhattan-Canal and Baxter Streets
Brooklyn-Ashland and Hanson Place-Flatbush Ave LIRR Station. The B-15 stand was on Ashland Place and the B-19 was on Hanson Place
Thank You
I already commented that the Manhattan Bridge bus was, at one time, known as the B63s.
What happened is that there was a misprint in the 1974 Manhattan Bus Guide issued by the TA. The B63 should have been listed as the B15.
Of course I take absolutely no blame for this as I was 3 years old at the time of printing. :)
If that's the case, then I did get question #8 right (partly) on your quiz.
8)What two routes operated over the Manhattan Bridge? B15
Yup. Correctamundo.
The B19 went to the Brooklyn Navy Yard from the Flatbush LIRR station. It went via Carlton Avenue. Does anybody know what depots did the old B15 and B19 operate out of? I am assuming Gleason.....
B46M Limited
Both the old B-15 and B-19 operated out of Gleason Depot then known as 5th Avenue. Also they has beeen confusion with the B-63. I believe that the B-15 buses pulled out and ran off as B-63 in service but I am not 100% sure
Thank You
As I remember, the old B15 ran only two round trips in the AM and and two in the early PM. The timing suggests that it existed primarily to ferry students in Chinatown to Brooklyn Tech High School.
It must have been 1975 then,cause the 1976 map has it listed as the B15.Which in that case what was the 5th Avenue(Brooklyn)route # then ?
It must have been 1975 then,cause the 1976 map has it listed as the B15.Which in that case what was the 5th Avenue(Brooklyn)route # then (in 1974 that is)
posted by zman179:
1)What were the old Manhattan route numbers for the following lines?:
M13
M23
M42
M66
M79
M86
M96
M116
X92
2)In 1974, what were the route numbers for the 57 Street and 59 Street crosstown lines?
3)What NYCTA(1974) discontinued crosstown bus route operated south of Houston Street? Also what were the "via" streets?(Example: The M16 runs via 34 St).
4)What bus line ran between 125 St-Lexington Av and Wards Island in 1974?
5)What were the old numbers for the Culture Loop lines that served Manhattan in 1974? What days did they run?
6)What were the FIVE southern terminals for the M10 route?
7)In 1974, the TA used to offer the "Midtown Shopper's Bus Ticket". How much did it cost then? What were the four boundaries(known as the "grid area") that you could board the bus with this ticket?
And now the tricky question. If you get this, then you're good!
8)What two routes operated over the Manhattan Bridge?
Answers
1)-The M13 doesn't exist now, but back then it ran along 8th Street
-M23 was the M26
-M42 was the M106
-M66 was the M29
-M79 was the M17
-M86 was the M18
-M96 was the M19
-M116 was the M20
-X92 didn't exist back then but was introduced sometime in the 80's as the X23 (the earliest map I have that shows the X23 is 1982)
2)The 28 was the 57 Street Crosstown (although it only operated to 12Av/57 Street) and the 103 was the 59 Street crosstown.
3)There were two crosstown bus routes south of Houston Street that were discontinued. The M12 which operated via Spring and Prince, and the M8 which operated via Broome and Grand.
4)The M34 ran between Wards Island and 125 Street in 1974
5)There were two culture loops: the M41 and the B88
6)The M10 terminated at -Abdington Square
-West and Houston
-Spring and 6Av
-West B'way WTC
7)The Midtown Shopper's ticket was .75 cents for an unlimited day of riding, and the grid area was 59 Street to the North, Eighth Av to the West, 32 Street to the South, and Third Avenue to the East.
8)The B88(culture bus) and the B63 operated over the Manhattan Bridge.
Now here are some questions:
1)Which bus replaced the Bx29
2)How many M14 branches were there, and along what main North/South avenues did they run on.
3)Name two bus routes that operate now, that did not run back in 1974.
4)Name the bus routes that operated along 5th Avenue between 72 Street and 110 Street.
Hope you liked them
Clak Palicka
CEO TrAnSiTiNfO
http://www.nyctransitinfo.com
1)What were the old Manhattan route numbers for the following lines?:
M13
M23 M26
M42 M106
M66 M29
M79 M17
M86 M18
M96 M19
M116 M20
X92 X23
2)In 1974, what were the route numbers for the 57 Street and 59 Street crosstown lines? M28 and M103 respectively.
3)What NYCTA(1974) discontinued crosstown bus route operated south of Houston Street? Also what were the "via" streets?(Example: The M16 runs via 34 St). M12 via Prince Street.
4)What bus line ran between 125 St-Lexington Av and Wards Island in 1974? M34
5)What were the old numbers for the Culture Loop lines that served Manhattan in 1974? What days did they run? B88, M41, weekends only
6)What were the FIVE southern terminals for the M10 route? 14th St-10th Ave, Abingdon Sq., 3rd St-Hudson St., Liberty St.-World Trade Ctr.
7)In 1974, the TA used to offer the "Midtown Shopper's Bus Ticket". How much did it cost then? What were the four boundaries(known as the "grid area") that you could board the bus with this ticket? The four boundaries were 32nd St., 59th St., Madison Ave., 8th Ave.
And now the tricky question. If you get this, then you're good!
8)What two routes operated over the Manhattan Bridge? B15, B51.
To Far Rock:
Questions 6 & 8 were supposed to have the caption "in 1974". Try again.
You almost got #7. Third Av was one of the boundaries instead of Madison.
To Hudson,
I would like to know the changes in frequency on the S79, X1-9 & the X17 in early winter 2001.
One question for you: How many times have you been told about asking questions.Especially when they have answered in post months ago.Especially when they are directed at one person in particular.Don't you learn?
"J":
Don't even stress it, because he is not going to listen. We've all got on his case about it. So fellow buff, don't even waste your typing energy. Channel That Energy To Something Positive!
Happy Thanksgiving!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
"Life Is Full Of Negative Vibes & People, Abosorb The Vibe and Put It Into Something Positive"
www.transitalk.com
Thanks i will,but hey it was worth a shot.That and needed to burn off Thanksgiving calories somehow:)
.
TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO,TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLOTO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO,TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLOTO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO,TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLOTO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO,TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLOTO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO,TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLOTO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO,TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO,TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLOTO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO,TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLOTO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO,TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO, TO FOLLO.
Isn't that aggrivating. I hope he reads this and feel what we feel!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
"Life is full of negative a$$holes, Take thier negativity and turn it into something positive"
www.transitalk.com
I've come to the conclusion that the only way to handle this pest is to simply ignore his repetitive questions.
How about a giant can of Raid:)
Follo you dumb *&%$, don't use any posters name in your questions! Learn DAMMIT!
I posted this in Bus Talk ,,why are you asking this question ,,again !!!!!!
Found this article today in the Ridgewood(NY)Times(Times Newsweekly to some)It states that it will be extended from 12am to 1am (Mon-Sat)and from 10p to 11p on Sun.
Steve, the Q32 runs like that already. The last Q32 towards Penn Sta arrives at 58 St and Roosevelt Ave at 113am Monday-Saturday-1052pm on Sunday.
Q32#140Gary
I meant to say leaving Penn at the before mentioned times.I thought i clarified that
I would like to know if Yukon Bus Depot will be getting back the 115-129 Orion Surburban express buses when NYCT implements the 2 new South Shore express buses.
In addition, why was the Orion Surburbans 115-140 sent to Casey Stangel Depot or were they just transferred there until the 2 new South Shore routes were implementated.
No,YUK is not getting 115-140 back ,becuse now only YUK and UP are getting the MCI's,if you looked at Mark's Bus roster on Trevor's website and secondly on behalf of My fellow Transit-buff's enough is enough already instead of asking question ,check the archives for the answers or add some insightful input .Thank You
He just dose not learn, dose he. We just shoud just stop reading his post and mayby he would look up his topic before he ask the question.
Robert
Today I got to ride a PCC car for the first time in my life with my friends when we were goign to South Street from the reading terminal market. The trolley itself was pretty comfortable with the padded seats and holiday decorations. The streetcar also had wide doors, not those narrow doors on the Kawasaki LRVs. I remember that just for fun I rode one of the Kawasakis and when I was getting out I sorta had to slide through the door. How do "hefty" people get through this? Also, the trollies on the Historic trolley line were from PTC and red arrow, and were still painted in their original schemes. They seemed to be in pretty good condition, and if it wasn't for their lack of air conditioning and turn signals, I would certain suggest that they just be used on the 15 instead of having to get brand new LRVs (although the doorways are really narrow)
Hey everybody in Subtalk & Bustalk, Don't miss the boat (or should I say trolley). This is a rare opportunity. Don't make Basman and me a part of the lucky few. Everybody come to Philly (my hometown) and have a joyride. The PCC's are back (Thanks to SEPTA and Loews Hotel), the RTS's are back (Thanks to NJ Transit), and a fishbowl is out (Thanks to The Burlington Apartment Complex, which owns the bus). It would be perfect if we could have the Almond Joys back.
At least there are some PCC's within a 100mile radius still as Newark is extemely close too removing theirs from service.Prehaps they will end up in Philly or Boston.
Unfortunately, the Newark PCC's will not end up in Philly due to their width (they are 9' wide compared to Philly's 8'6" cars). Possibly, they may end up in San Francisco because they originally ran 9' wide cars.
What is the width of the Boston PCC's or is there last PCC's being replaced by LRV's from the Green Line
The PCCs at Boston only run on the Ashmont to Mattapan line, which is technically not part of the "Green" line. They just recently overhauled their PCCs so those few will be around for a while.
BTW, Elsewhere on this site you can SEE photos of both (old Green, new Orange)
Mr t__:^)
Boston, like the majority of PCC cars, are 8'6" wide. Chicago, Los Angeles, San Franciso, St. Louis, Illinois Terminal, Shaker Heights, and Minneapolis/St. Paul ordered 9' wide PCC's. I did not mention NJ Transit because they were purchased second-hand from Minneapolis/St. Paul, and I did not mention Red Arrow because they were not true PCC's. Hope that answers your question.
Is the fishbowl you are talkign about that blue fishbowl that drives around the city for no reason? What service does it provide. I see it a lot in Center City, particularly around City Hall. The almond joys would be nice to have back (maybe a few, not too many-I still love the M-4s) except for the summer, when it is really hot. I know that this isn't subtalk, but wasnt there suppose to be an M-4 car at the transit museum?
If it says "Burlington" on the side of it, then that's the one. Personally, I wish they would get rid of that god-awful M-4 fleet. They should have an M-3 at the museum, but their excuse is that there is no room at the museum, so out of the entire fleet, only 7 escaped the scrap yard (even 711, my favorite, is gone).
... the RTS's are back (Thanks to NJ Transit)
Does that mean what I think it does, that some the new RTS' have found their way south?
Peace,
Big D
I guess it does. Also, you might be able to see a few 30' RTSs in Philadelphia as well! At least, I saw them before, I'm not sure if NJ Transit still runs them in the city today.
Yes it does. At first, 30-footers started to appear. Now 30 and 40' RTS are down here. I rode on a 30' on Route 459 from The Echelon Mall to The PATCO Station. Except for the interior colors and engine, it's still the RTS theat grew to love.
They're already south. A few 40-ft are operating out of Newton Av on the 404, 409 (to Willingboro/Burlington), and 413. Some 30-ft have been spotted on the 400 (short trips to Audubon), 403 and 406. They are also used on most of the 450-series lines in South Jersey, the 501 and 505 in AC, and some of the Mercer routes.
NYCT RTS#5138 seen at Park Row today parked with four way flashers flashing. Left amber flasher was standard automotive bulb while right flasher had new LED.
Nothing really exciting, but an oddity to be noticed. Kinda reminds me back in the early 80's when railfanning in the Bronx. Stopped at an express station on a southbound when a northbound white graffitti scarred R-26 or 28? was closing the doors. The right hand door leaf was a standard R- 26 type while the left hand one was one from an R-15 !!
Bill "Newkirk"
I've had similar experiences, such as how on the New Flyyer C40LFs, usually the turn signals on the rear of the outside are above the brake lights, but on 859 it is the other way around! Another oddity.
Actually, I've seen that also just recently on a B15 bus from ENY depot in JFK airport. Both the turn signal and brake light were LED on one side while on the other side the lights were regular light bulbs. I'm sure the bus was probably in an accident and maintainence does not have replacement LED lights at this time. I don't recall what the bus # was but I saw it about 2 weeks ago. Another thing I see from time to time on the Green Lines older buses is one signal in the rear is red while the other side is yellow.
BIG AL
NYCB #5074 is like this, too.
I was at Jackie Gleason Depot the other day and I noticed Bus# 950 all crashed up in the front it is one on those new Natural Gas Buses, does anyone know?
Someone crashed into one of the pillars on 3rd Avenue
It was a new driver, she is now gone becouse of this and other thing. She was lucky the she was Not in Serivec when this happen. The bus was also out only on the road for five days before this happen. The bus might get fixed or a new one with the same number.
Robert
>>>She was lucky the she was Not in Serivec when this happen. <<<
She's lucky she wasn't killed.
Peace,
ANDEE
Saw Orion 225 on wednesday back in Manhattan on the m7 - again - after 2 months at Stengel.
Now, I may be wrong, but this is the 3rd time at least that this bus has been sent from Stengel back to Mother Clara Hale Depot. It started out in Stengel, went to Hale when all the Early Orions left Stengel (173-226), came back the first time with the repaint of 227-232. Left again for Hale. Came back with 223-226. Left again - and came back 2 months ago (with 226, although I never saw that in service. I rode 225 3 times in her most recent stay in Queens (on the Q15, Q13 and Q28.
I think this is a record for shuttling a bus between 2 depots in 2 boroughs exclusively.
The depot stickers must be getting thick :)
Why is this poor bus treated like Little Orphan Annie? Why the back and forth?
Let's do the right thing. Lets bring her home to Stengel where she belongs.
Join me in hoping that Orion 225 can be brought back home to Stengel for good.
Happy thanksgiving all!
flx7595
I feel that those 1993 Orion Vs need to remain at Mother Clara Hale until the Orion VII Hybrids arrive.
The 1993 Orion Vs are looking better than ever at Mother Clara Hale and run better too. Don't get me wrong, Stengel has OK maintenance BUT Mother Clara Hales has those bad boys looking real sharp!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
At least the maintainance at CS is a step up for 101-140 from YUK.Caught 117 on the Q12 last nite at she ran real good.Plus saw a lot other Orion Suburbans in local service and it like 12a.m.
116 was right in front of my Q60 last night at 12am (5546).
Q32#116Gary
Q60#5546Gary
A maintainer at Mother Hale told me when many of these Orions arrive(d) they are usually victims of some very serious deferred maintainence. Last week we had a Yukon Orion, Maybe 173 or 117 that had no engine whatsoever! It was towed out last week, dont know what the story behind that was however.
Must have been 173,Had 117 on the Q12 Friday night,and she had pretty good pick up on Northern Bl.
From Follo,
I won't bother you again on bustalk but I would like to put on one last post but please don't give me any nonsense about this post.
Since someone post on this bustalk not long ago about 2 new South Shore express buses being considered by NYCT for 2001. I would like to know if any of you busbuffs have heard of anything about this, if you have, please post it on bustalk but again, please DON'T POST ANY NONSENSE about this subject, if you haven't heard anything about the proposed 2 new South Shore routes being considered by NYCT, I would like to know if you would post this information on bustalk when this information becomes available.
Thank you.
Why do you need to know?
Arti
Follo, I have some questions for you. Why do you ask nothing but questions on this board? Since you have been posting, I have never seen you submit any information about anything. You have only asked questions which have already been answered in previous posts. Is it because you do not know how to use your computer to look at old posts?Do you live someplace other than NY or CA and can not submit any useful info to us since most of the info on this board is from people living in the 2 states I mentioned. Are you really just trying to annoy people? If you can answer my questions with a reasonable answer so that we can understand your logic, then maybe us bustalkers would not mind answering your questions. However, if you can not give me a satisfactory reply, then I would prefer you not posting here again.
BIG AL
I think that this follo guy should be reported to the head hancho of nycsubway.org-Dave Pirmann. Maybe he can BAN his access to this site since all he does is annoy the ever living hell out of all of us here on BT. And follo, like I said before Put OUT or GET OUT! It's that simple!
You missed our posters from PA & DC among others.
I got an email asking the same question, and I replied with the sentence 'I don't follo you.' Instead of assuming the typo, this person immediately defended themselves.
In any case, some ask only questions because they know nothing.
And if an answer is known, it gets posted. If not, as is the case here, some folks get impatient and ask it repeatedly.
-Hank
And IL. (But I haven't been posting much lately.)
I was aware of that but follo doesnt follo the WMATA stuff (luckily).
ROFLOLKTC
Rolling On Floor Laughing Out Loud Kickng The Cat
I forgot, that post I put on is about the South Shore of Staten Island.
No, you are wrong, you ment to ask about South Shore of New Jersey.
Arti
The following info was found on Scott Moore's New England Transportation Site (http://members.aol.com/netransit/). This site has a complete roster of MBTA buses as well as Subway,rail,and Green Line equipment.Also,there is an alltime roster of T buses on this site,for those who may be interested.
MBTA bus #0270 a 1995 Nova Bus RTS 40 foot was scrapped sometime recently.It was involved in an unusual tragic accident in 1997 in which the bus plunged off a entrance ramp onto Memorial Drive in Cambridge, through a guard rail and into the Charles River.The driver was killed,he was the only one on board,as the bus was out of service heading back to the Albany St. garage at the time.The bus was stored at the MBTA's Everett shops since.This bus is the first of the 1994/1995 Nova RTS' to be scrapped.
2 Other buses listed as stored at the T's Everett shops: 0157, also a 1995 Nova Bus RTS 40 foot assigned to the Cabot Garage, listed a stored wrecked.No further info on how long this bus has been stored or when/how it was damaged, and 8492, a 1985 GMC RTS 40 Foot assigned to the Lynn Garage, listed as stored wrecked.Again,no info on how/when it was damaged.My guess is given the age of 8492, if the damnage is severe enough,that one may end up scrapped.I'm not aware of any other MBTA RTS' that have been scrapped other than 0270.
Mark Watson
Pictures posted at http://www.quuxuum.org/~nixon/new/Buses/
-Hank
That was the 600/700 series CTC Canadian Fishbowl right.
Correct!
It appears that the bus was nicknamed Big Ken. If so its former CTC #743 that used to ply the Woodside-Rockaway Park Route. It is stored at the Highway District 3 yard alongside the W/B GCP near 188th Street. I see that the bus has yet to meet Earl Scheib for its makeover into the current NYPD colors.
743 & the rest of the late 70's GM Fishbowls used to operate exclusively on the Q53 until the early 80's when they started appearing on the other local routes .The same held true for the late 70's Canadian fishbowls (the 600's)they ran always on the QM10.QM11 &QM12 until the early to mid 80's,when they were used in local service For some reason however CTC never ran its RTS-03's in local service even though they had transit seating.These buses finally ran local when they where x-fered to GBL.in the late 80's/early 90's.
It hasn't been at that location for a few weeks. I hope those pictures aren't from Nimco.
Nope, Edwater Plaza, SI; home of the SI Detective squad, and the fictional 124th Precient from Law and Order.
-Hank
It was a TCC 700 series (I think it was #759), but Triboro's 700 series fishbowls were not from GM of Canada. The 600 series are T8H-5307A's from GMDD (GM of Canada) and the 700 series are T6H-5307A's from GMC Truck and Coach (Michigan).
Wayne
Today, I was fortunate enough to ride 1983 GMC RTS 2150 in base service on Houston's busiest line the 2-Bellaire today.
It's one inside ad was gone and the warning stickers on the rear doors were missing also. The scratchitti was pretty bad nad the seats were pretty marked up.
Pick-up was noticeably slow today, it had to get a "Neoplan Second Wind" to get going. When I got off 2150 and watched him takeoff, he wasn't smoking although the aroma of diesel fuel was quiet strong.
I hadn't seen 2150 in about three weeks. It's obvious they worked on him, particularly the motor. It had a deeper tone today and when deaccelerating it made a buzzing type noise. Also, I found the lack of smoke from 2150 odd since this bus has been a chronic smoker since 1999. I guess less pollution means less speed. The suspension was as solid as could be for a 17 year old bus.
I'm just hoping to catch 2145 now before she is retired. I saw her with Flyer (Police) lights blazing late night last Sunday. She was on a long trip crosstown on the 65 line. I'm sure she's decked out in holiday cheer (cheap wreath and Happy Holiday or Seasons Greetings flashing in the dest. sign) as is 2150 and the rest of the Metro fleet.
Well, the countdown is on in Houston as well for the older RTS buses. The only RTS buses operating out of West Facility are 1975, 1979, 1985, 1986, 2145, 2150 and 2153. I'm assuming 1976, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 2147, 2151, and 2154 are stored because they weren't on the auction roster.
Well, that's the latest on the RTS situation in Houston, back to you NYC...
The 1984 RTS's (34 to 3700 series are going faster than the 82 RTS'S(16to 1800 series)And only a third (150 out of 450 )of the 85's RTS'S(38 to 4200 series) are left
Metro's been retiring it's RTS buses since 1998. It's gonna take them all of the three years they anticipated to get rid of them. The funny thing is Metro only had 288 RTS buses and it's taken this long to retire them. Also, some still run in base and weekend service despite their age. Still, I know one day they're gonna be all gone. When I was young, I could never imagine Houston without an RTS or Flxible, but now I'll have to live with it.
Can you get a pic of RTS 2150 and email it to me? I've never seen RTS from Houston before. Also the 1983 RTS are all retired but 3099 from Ulmer Park. Some 1983 RTS are now police buses-3013, 3188, 3309-3310 just to name a few. There are 16 1982 RTS Suburbans left: 1740, 1742, 1745, 1747, 1751-1752, 1755, 1760-1761, 1767, 1773, 1778, 1819, 1826, 1844, 1846, 1852. As I said in a previous post, I had 1751 on the Q46 on Tuesday. It ran ok but she looked in shoddy condition. 3572-3573 and 3575 are still operating out of Jamaica but that will soon be a memory once 9257-9271 have arrived from UP. Same goes for the 1985 Express RTS 3800 series. I haven't seen the 3800s in service out of QV since 611-630 arrived. I do see 3833 3865 and 3869 out of Jamaica still operating but like the 3 3500 series RTS, their life is in jeopardy. Also 3967 sees spotty Express Service. Now I think we should have a new competition. Who will be the last converted Express RTS to see service? For 1982 RTS, I still think 1755 will be the final bus. For converted Express, I believe it'll be 4191 out of CS. Looks and runs pretty good from what I see, but as from what I learned with 3870, she may go at ANY TIME!
Here are 2 pics of 4191:
Enjoy!!!
Q32#4191Gary
I got a chance to ride 2150 again today. It was a bit late (about 10-15 minutes) on the 65 heading crosstown. It had good pick-up today and was surprisingly nimble. The driver turned on the Flyer lights and we were gone. He gave me a daypass even though I didn't have my student ID with me. He was in such a rush he took the dollar from my hand and gave me a pre isuued saypass that read 4:45 instead of 5:10. Oh well, it saved me a dollar.
After gliding gracefully down Bissonnet at about 55-60 mph (2150 is one of the few RTS buses that can do above 52 mph) the acceleration gave out. But over the road pickup was still quite good.
It's still in service as I type probably back on it's way towards the northside and then maybe one more trip back out here. It'll be done between 1am and 2am I think.
I do have a picture of 2150 around here somewhere. It was near my school on the 2 line heading into town last spring. I snapped some pretty good pictures of it. I'll have to find them and scan them at my cousins house. If I can't do that, I'll try to mail you one.
If I can't find them, I'll try to get another picture of it. It works seven days a week. It does afternoon trippers on the 65 on the weekdays and then on Saturdays base service on the 2, and on Sundays ususally service on the 2 for about 6 hours, stays at the garage for about 4 hours and then takes the 4:45 trip on the 65 to well after midnight.
It's great to still see RTS buses tearing it up on two of the most popular routes in Houston.
If any one knows about the 2 new proposed Staten Island Express Bus Routes can you post the route numbers and their terminals.
Thank You
We all know your still Follo under a different alias....
Damn follo! Don't you think it's time that you word your questions a little differently? Your question style screams "FOLLO" no matter what the name on the heading says.
Yo! My man, High Street is not FOLLO, I know High Street and it's two different people. FOLLO is ex-Bus/Subtalker Sarand!
High Street is someone else, chill out man!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
"People That Bring You Down or Try is Negativity, Shed Those people and live positivly"
www.transitalk.com
I think he meant Barry.
This information will be posted in the NYC Transit Committee Agendas
When it is available,I will post it,,in my monthly new Items
Steve
Thank You
Barry
Oh I wasn't talking about High Street now Trevor. I was talking about Barry.
High Street actually contributes to this board unlike follo.
FOR YOUR INFROMATION I AM NOT FOLLO.
I DO NOT KNOW WHO HE IS AND I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW.
BEFORE YOU MAKE A STATEMENT PLEASE GET THE FACTS.
THANK YOU
Follio is either Sarand,Michael and a host of other names,,,
We are now pointing fingers at the WRONG people,,someone is going to get hurt with this finger pointing excercise!!
Can we please stop this topic and get back to Bus Materials ,Again,
Thank you
Steve
Relax, people, Follo isn't Barry. Barry isn't Follo. If they were they'd both be gone since multiple handles aren't permitted (of course, they need to be brought to my attention-- I'm sure there are some cases out there where users have two handles). However, this isn't one of them.
Ok then. My apologies to Barry.
Mine as well
Yeah! You started it! : )
I don't know about that, different IP addresses.
Peace,
ANDEE
If you use ISP like AOL etc... you have a different IP address every session.
But they fit a specific range. It's still not reliable, because AOL has something like 25 million users.
-Hank
Hey Barry, why don't you ask Follo. Maybe he can help you!
Saw this bus on Church and Remsen Avenues still sporting a KB logo on the driver side.
B17#5221Mike
I was watching this movie this afternoon and saw Dan Akroyd riding SEPTA Bus 257. It appeared to be a Fishbowl. I wonder if the bus was preserved or scrapped and was this an actual bus in service?
At the time that this movie was filmed, SEPTA was still running fishbowls in thier fleet. I believe that this is a true to life SEPTA GMC "Fishbowl" New Look.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
"Misery Loves Company, So Leave Misery In The Dust!"
www.transitalk.com
I thought Dan Akroyd was riding a new look Flexible in Trading Places.Or am i thinking about Woody Harrelson in White Men Can't Jump and Indecent Proposal.
Actually, I think you're talking about "Quick Change". That one had a new look Flxible....painted to look like a NYCTA bus, but the interior was exactly like an NJT unit, and all the interior advertising was NJT stuff too.
I saw that too. But it looked like the scene where he gets off the bus is done right here in NYC.
B46M Limited
So? Maybe it WAS filmed in NYC....but the bus was definitely an ex-NJT job.
And maybe that scene was done inside a sound stage.....
That bus was a Flxible Model 53102-6-1 New Look, I saw to movie tonight! But SEPTA did run Flxible New Looks Too!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Watching UPN 9 News and there was an accident in Cliffside Park, NJ. Bus driver and 3 others were injured. Volunteer Fire fighter died in the accident. Bus involved was Flexible 3504. Condolenses go out to the firefighter's family.
I loved your Bus Sounds sections. I especially enjoyed the Fishbowl link. That 71 series engine sounded like it was laboring very hard and running at redline, which is how I like it!!!!
I would like for you to add more bus sounds if that is possible. I would like bus sounds from NYC, D.C, Boston, or any other cities. I would also like to hear more two stroke bus sounds. Also, I would like to hear RTS sounds and more [Miami-Dade transit does not have RTS :(].
Thank you!!!!
PS- I think your website is great and it was done professionally. I will also e-mail this to the webmaster.
RTS_2150:
All this talk of your beloved Houston RTS's is making me crave a thorough and complete Houston Metro bus roster.
I know they have about 1400 units of lots of different makes and models. As I have said before, this must be one of the largest "unfanned" bus fleets in the country, and the last fleet over 500 whose numbering system I don't know like the back of my hand.
Here is what little I know about their numbers:
high 1900's / low 2000's - RTS
mid 2000's - Ikarus 416
high 2000's - Brand New New Flyers
low 4000's - Older New Flyer low floors
4200's - D30LF's
4400's - Newer Neoplan Artics
4700's - New Flyer Vikings
They have a lot of crazy midibuses and other types which I can't even remember.
I would really appreciate an accurate roster from someone who knows. Also, I would like to see the "recent history" of Metro buses, like back into the days of the Flxibles and Eagles.
Thanks,
Neil Greenberg
...getting results since 1981.
It's still across the Flushing River from Casey Stengel. The strange thing is that now the front sign says:
M101 125 ST
The side and rear signs are blank, though. Strange, isn't it?
As most of you who are regulars to Bus Talk know, I am not a big fan of the RTS. Now before all you RTS lovers get bent out of shape please understand that my criticisms are based on having spent the last 10 plus years driving them anywhere from 8-10 hours a day. It's one thing being a bus fan but quite another when you spend a good portion of your life confined behind the wheel of one. While being a rugged reliable workhorse for the TA the RTS has for the most part been a cramped and uncomfortable bus for it's drivers. In speaking to drivers whose depots have converted to Orion and New Flyers the overwhelming consensus has been that those two products are far superior to the RTS in ergonomics and driver comfort.
Now having said all this it may come as a shock to you to know that there actually is an RTS model that I don't mind driving. This would be the 1988 RTS-80206, NYCTA fleet nos 4600-4872 & 4889-4899 built jointly by GMC and TMC. From what I've been led to understand the bodies of theses buses were built by GMC in Pontiac, Michigan and then shipped to TMC in Roswell, New Mexico where the chassis and drivetrain components were added on and where final assembly took place. This accounts for these buses having two builders plates on their interiors. The GMC plate being located on the fire extinguisher compartment door and the TMC builders plate being located on the overhead compartment door just to the right of the destination sign control panel. For whatever reason, in my opinion, this joint assembly produced the finest RTS on the road. These buses have a smooth ride, brisk acceleration and very nice handling. Even the drivers compartment seems to have just a bit more room than other RTS types. On the downside, there are only 279 of them in the entire fleet including 15 at my depot, so I don't often get to drive one.
I'd be curious to get input from other Bus Talk contributors, especially other bus drivers, to hear what their favorite RTS model is.
It's sort of sad to think that it took the transition of the RTS production from GMC to TMC to produce a comfortable RTS. We refer to them as TMC RTS-06 even though the bodies were built by GMC.
Wayne
The -06 designation in an RTS model number does not necessarily indicate that it was a TMC-manufactured bus. In fact, over its three manufacturers, the only major change in RTS model designation was carried out by General Motors in the late 70's, when an RTS TH8 203 became an RTS T8H 203 (or a TH7 603 became a T7H 603, you get the idea.)
There was one more slight change in the model numbers. When the 6V92TA became the norm for new RTS's, the 'H' or 'J' or 'W' indicating the type of engine was simply replaced with a zero. This change took place around mid-1980. On the -03 release and eariler, you could tell the engine type by looking at the bus model number. On the -04 and up, the zero is there instead.
Since then, the designation style has stayed the same through GMC, TMC, and NovaBUS.
The RTS-06 was unveiled by GM in late 1985, and GM did in fact manufacture RTS-06's for model years 1986 and 1987, although some 1986 orders were still for RTS-04's.
TMC inherited the RTS-06 design and made no changes, hence the same release number. TMC introduced the RTS-08 wide front door model in 1990. The wide front door RTS has since been refined twice, but maintains its RTS-08 designation. The RTS-06 and RTS-08 are currently available from NovaBUS.
As for the RTS-05, it was an experimental T-Drive model. I believe Houston Metro has some in active service.
The RTS-07 has a shorter wheelbase, requiring that the rear door be positioned one window position to the front. The only two RTS-07's in existence are 9368 and 9369 at SMART in suburban Detroit, and they have front ends of the second release of the RTS-08, but still rear door wheelchair lifts. These buses also have Cummins L10 engines.
Neil Greenberg
I have documents from TMC at home that explained TMC's new plant in Schenectady, NY which was doing REMANS of RTS's from the early 80's and late 70's. They have a picture of a SMART bus which has the plain RTS front but the newer style RTS rear with no triangular window. This plant was also responsible for final assembly of MCI Classics from Canada which carries the TMCI builders plate instead of the MCI Greyhound Canada plate. I agree that the RTS's here at NYCT from 1988 were the smoothest riding buses to date. The 06 designation for the GM RTS's also represented the change of the front suspension system that was used in the 04 series. This "improved" version of the RTS was what was given to properties that put in orders for RTS 04's. The 04 was discontinued and the 06 was given in its place. I only hope that in the very near future that the drivers area gets more comfortable.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Are SMART's RTS's really the first ones without the triangle window at the back? I thought that that was just an option. After 1993, were the triangle windows still available?
Is SMART #9301 really the first one without that window?
Wow! SMART's RTS fleet is a rolling museum of RTS's. The first RTS wide front door (#9001), the first RTS-06 without the triangle window (#9301), the only RTS-07's (#9368 and #9369) and what I have reason to believe is the last TMC (#9423).
To think that time is running out on all of these buses!
Neil Greenberg
My favorite RTS buses are the 1981-83 model RTS-04. They're all different it seems in terms of looks, sound, acceleration, and overall performance. I still fell they're the best buses in Houston right now with the 4000 series Flyers running a close second.
The drivers here actually prefer the RTS bus. It has just as much space as the Grumman Rehabs, Flxibles, or Flyers had or have. Maybe it's just NYC scrimping on driver comforts. Houston drivers call them the Cadillac of buses, something I whole-heartedly agree with.
As for the RTS-05, I don't think Houston ever had any, I could check on that though. If we did, it was most likely 2187 or 2188, the last RTS buses brought into the fleet.
Why did GMC skip from RTS-01 to RTS-03? After that, it is in numerical order including the rare experimental models. Are RTS normally V, or T drive?
I would like to know the future of RTS? I hope they continue to build it for many more years. I would like to see some environmental laws repealed so that the 6v92TA can return. I love that engine the best.
Actually, the full name of the RTs is GMC RTS-02-01, 03, 04, 05, or 06. I'm guessing the first RTS was the experimental RTX transbus model.
I'm with you on the 6v92TA engine. I listened to a NYC Nova RTS engine and was appalled by the sound. It was hideous! Bring back that classic GMC sound!
The RTS II-02 was the Experimental RTS Articulated Bus. It was VERY short lived!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
"SHED NEGATIVE, LIVE POSITIVE"
www.transitalk.com
I believe that the RTS Articulated was produced in three experimental lengths in 1980 or thereabouts.
There were three or four 60-foot RTS Artics produced; and one apiece 55-foot and 65-foot (wow!) models. I don't even think these made it to demo service!
Trevor, I would actually doubt that the artics got a release number to themselves. The last two digits in RTS models are supposed to be chronologically issued with respect to release, not length, and since the artics were turned out about in about 1979-1980, I would expect them to be the following model numbers:
55-foot RTS: RTS T11H 203
60-foot RTS: RTS T12H 203
65-foot RTS: RTS T13H 203
I devised these model numbers using the logic that the 7 or 8 in the familiar RTS model numbers reflects the number of 5-foot modules in the bus. In the case of the artics, you might want to kick my module designations down by one because the articulation probably did not count as a module. Also, the RTS artics were probably RTS-04's because the one picture I ever saw of one was not a slantback.
Also, if any of you have a copy of APTA's Transit Vehicle Data Book, look in the entry for the transit system in Gary, Indiana. They have several RTS-02's listed of model years 1992 and 1993.
I'm glad that the RTS never saw full production as an artic. I think I've had some bad dreams about that one I saw in a picture. Every time I pass that GM Truck & Bus plant on Opdyke Road in Pontiac (about 10 miles from my house), home of the Old Look, New Look, and original RTS, I kind of get the creeps. Strange how they still call it Truck & Bus although they haven't cranked out a single bus in 13 years. Also strange that the company which was singlehandedly responsible for killing transit in America produced the best transit buses ever.
Go figure.
Neil Greenberg
Didn't these get tested on the M15 once? I remember artics getting tested there...
could be wrong.
flx7595
In 1982 there was a Crown articulated bus being tested in Queens.
Mr t__:^)
MSBA had a artic they were testing on the N4 around the same time. It was from Rominia and not to well liked. Newsday had a story on it because it sat parked more than it was used.
As for those buses in Gary, Indiana being listed as "RTS-02" models, consider that it was probably some know-not-a-thing-about-buses office clerk who sent the information in to the folks putting the APTA book together. This sort of thing happens all the time.
Check out Metro Magazine sometime, when they run the "50 largest transit fleets" or "50 largest charter/private fleets". You'll see a listing for NYCDOT...and then you see listings for some of the companies who are under NYCDOT (Jamaica, Queens, Triboro, etc.) In other words, they are counted twice. Of course, whoever sends Metro that info usually doesn't know a thing about bus fleets; it's just some office secretary or public relations officer who was told to fill out the form.
I worked for a tour/charter company about 11-12 years ago, and they always got listed....I laughed the first time I saw it, as they were listed as having "170 buses". Hell, they must have counted the buses, pickup trucks, boss's and drivers' cars and the boss's camels too. We REALLY had fewer than 80 buses....
I always suspect some companies blew their figures out of proportion just to see their names mentioned....just like people who get worried in Usenet when one of their posts don't show up, they throw a tizzy 'cause they didn't see their name on the screen.
BTW -- those 1992 and 1993 buses in Gary, Indiana?? They are T70606 models. That makes them RTS-II-06's.
The only information I can dig up regarding the RTS articulated experimental bus is that it was designated an RTS-II "05" model. The original experimental T-drive was the "07" model.
"I would like to see some environmental laws repealed so that the
6v92TA can return. I love that engine the best."
I agree with. The 6V-92TA was and still is an excellent engine. The only problem is it's 2 cycle design. If it had been a 4 cycle engine, we would not be having this conversation right now. Detroit Diesel tried very hard to keep it alive. The made all kinds of "EPA" certified purifaction kits for this engine. In all fairness, this engine went out swinging! So hopefully we can enjoy this engine for a little while longer in units that still have them.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
I remember a post on here saying that your 1990 and 1993 RTS 6v92TA had some sort of exaust particulate filter that you had to replace often and it ended up being costly. How much does these filters cost and how often was that replaced?
I am not sure about the cost, but the system was a trap oxidizer. The 1990 TMC RTS's were equipped with them and the 1993 TMC RTS and 1993 Orion V's had them as well. They were made by Donaldson and they were dual carbon types, this is the reason they had dual exhaust outlets. The diesel fuel used at the time was not the best quality and this is what led to the constant clogging and changing of the trap filter elements. I think the TMC units were made by Donaldson as well but I am not 100% sure. I hope that helps you a little bit at least.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Thank you
I thought the last TMC RTS was MBTA's 0138
Correct, last one produced under TMC was Boston 0138. Serial RR830404.MBTA 0139-up were built under the auspices of Novabus.
I had always heard that Fairfax Connector had the last batch, but I guess the MBTA order came right after it.
Fairfax Connector's units were built a bit before MBTA's bunch which became the final TMC production units.
Fairfax's are RR830053 - RR830078 and RR830080 - RR830087.
The last TMC production units were RR830283 - RR830404 (MBTA 0017-0038).
In between Fairfa'x order(s) and MBTA's, there were serials listed as going to NYCTA, Taltran (Talahassee, FL), TARTA (Toledo, OH), SMART (Detroit, MI area) and Walt Disney World, as well as some small bunches for MBTA.
Thanks! I guess this mad rush of orders kept the Roswell plant going for awhile. The MBTA buses look so plain that its hard to tell the older buses from the newer ones. When I was there in August, I kept looking at the number and figured that the 01xx buses were the newer ones. I can't remember the numbers, but I think some in the 8900's had suburban seating of various materials.
I realize the 06 series RTS are not all TMC, but I mentioned the 06 series because the buses in we were discussing are 06 series RTS's.
Wayne
145 also at stengel now.
Rode her tonight on the Q12..
Also saw 121 idling at Main St, 132 on the Q15, and 135 and (I think) 142 on the Q74)
She has a good ride to her but "squelched" a lot (that squeak of air that comes from the brakes when you let them go - the Grumman 870's used to make that sound).
Does this mean now Stengel gets 101-145? 45 coaches? Gee. We've never had it so good. No wonder the 1982 RTS' are out the door!
Flx7595 (still voting for 1742)
I do not get this though: 46 Orions most of them on local lines. If 120-146 are strictly gonna be used on lines such as the Q12, Q13, Q32 and Q74,AND there's a surplus of Express buses, why don't they take the Express Coach seats out of those buses and reconvert them to local hard seats? This would prevent vandalism to the Coach seats. Also, if these buses get too crowded, you can't move in the aisle. All the people as usual are standing in the front with nowhere to go. My opinion is that if they can do it from Local to Express, they can vice versa the process.
www.transitworld.org
119 and 142 on the 74 today
4191 in the AM
107 130 138 Q26
115 Q32
117 deadheading from Q32 to Garage
140 Q76
146 Q12
Sad but true.
I don't understand why they using Express Buses running on Local lines????? How many Buses are OOS at Casey Stengal or they ran out of buses???
Peace Out
David Justiniano
www.geocities.com/justin2669/NYCTransiTrans.html
107 130 138 Q26
115 Q32
117 deadheading from Q32 to Garage
140 Q76
146 Q12
Sad but true.
I don't understand why they using Express Buses running on Local lines????? How many Buses are OOS at Casey Stengal or they ran out of buses???
Peace Out
David Justiniano
www.geocities.com/justin2669/NYCTransiTrans.html
One thing just came to mind about converting the express orions to locals: The express bus Orions have their admittedly comfy reclining seats mounted on platforms. Changing the seating plan would be feasible if this platform didn't exist, though if the platform is simply a 'false floor', then it should be attainable.
Had not just a 100 Express Coach today, but had 2 of them: 123 from Yukon which had silver wheels on the Q76 and 141 from CAS on the Q26. Saw 146 on the Q76 also. 131 Q26. 143 Q14. 142 Q15 and 137 Q74. All these buses have Stengel stickers on them. 123 was having farebox problems b/c it wasn't reading another passenger's unlimited card and my own. The front lights were half on and also the front # said 1 3. 141 was the better bus.
Q26#141Gary
Didnt see it up close and it was dark, but noted an RTS with a Series 50 engine (i could hear it) pulling out of a stop south bound on main street and 77 avenue.
My only guess is it was a swap made in jamaica for a bad orion.
4448 was on the Q15 since about 7 o'clock pm on Monday.
Maybe it was 1742 (I'm really lobbying for this bus - can't you tell?)
flx7595
Could've been a Jamaica RTS. I got this pic of 8939 on Main St and 39 Ave:
This is the MAIN REASON why we're getting 101-172: to prevent THIS from happening. 146 is at CS also. They're so short on buses. But the 4 RTS will be going going gone within the month at CS.
Q74#132Gary
www.transitworld.org
Well, here is a little something from yours truly about Houston's buses since the inception of MTA Houston back in 1979.
When Metro took over Houtran back in 1979, the fleet consisted of about 450-500 buses. They were a few Old Looks I think, 300 poorly maintained New Looks, some RTS-II-01's and 03's, all with the sloping back. Also, I read that Rapid Transit (Houtran's predecessor) had aqquired 100 new buses in 1975 although I don't know what they were. I'm thinking they were some ugly mini-buses I saw in a picture taken back in 1977 or some M.A.N buses Metro had aqquired at an unknown time.
Of these buses, only about 350 could pull out each day. Of those about half would fail on the road. To ease this problem, Metro ordered 100 Grumman 879 buses, then 226 more the same year. They set into motion a plan to rehab 180 of the decrepid 18 year old New Looks and retrofit the older model RTS buses.
Unfortunately, the Gruman buses were more of a hinderence than a help. The buses were poorly built and Metro didn't have the proper maintence facilities to keep them in shape. Metro was in a deeper hole than the one in their only bus facility, Milby barn, which was a circa 1926 trolley barn.
Due to the need for service Metro had to send the venerable 5300 GMCs out in their present shoddy condition, the Grummans were sent on the road with over 100 infractions per bus, and the RTS buses were slow, steamy, suanas. The GM equipped A/C was so bad it strained the bus motor just to have it on and it had little effect then. Windows on the old RTS buses were falling out because of frequent openings during A/C failures during the hot Houston summers. Yet, Metro still trudged on buying 55 Eagle Model 05 buses for Park & Ride service.
In 1981, Metro was still in a pit of despair. The Grummans proved to be a disaster and were garnering the worst kind of media attention possible. TV and local newspaper were filled with the latest Metro troubles. Luckily, Metro decided to give GM another chance and purchase the newer RTS-04 model. Metro recieved the first 10 RTS-04 buses in the summer of 1981 and ordered 130 more for the 1982 fiscal year.
With the purchase of the RTS Metro moved forward towards becoming a better transit system. It rehabbed the 180 New Looks it planned to and the rest were stored, one New Look, 185, is still stored at McCarty street in the old maroon Metro scheme. Also, Metro planted roof mounted Sutrak units on all the RTS-II-01's and 03's allowing them to keep their handsome streamlined slope.
Metro established the Metro Maintenence "Super Team" to rehab the whole fleet and bring them up to standards. Metro adopted it's new paint scheme in 1982 along with the arrival of the next batxh of RTS buses. The scheme which is still in use today was applied only to new RTS buses and buses that were rehabbed an put through a grueling road test. Any bus that failed was sent back to Milby or the new Kashmere and McCarty Street facilities to be re-rehabbed and if it was a Grumman 870, stored.
1983 spelled the end for the 870 in Houston. 148 new RTS buses arrived between the spring and summer of 1983 and 226 870's were sent to McCarty street and stored pending sale. The other 100 were sent back to Grumman to be remanufacutred as Grumman-Flxible Metro A's and were returned to Metro in the summer of 1983. Now that Metro had established a decent started fleet built around the RTS-04's, it could move on to expanding it.
In 1984, Metro began purchasing the next batch of Eagles. From late 1984 to early 1985, Metro recieved 100 Eagle Model 10 buses for their expanding Park & Ride service. Also, in 1985, they purchased 157 of the Flxible Metro B buses and some very ugly Crown Articulated buses, Metro's first 60 foot buses. In 1986, Metro began purchasing from Neoplan with an order of 30 minibuses and 15 40 foot suburban buses which were the first to be lift equipped.
Life was good for the fleet until 1989 when Metro decided that the New Looks which were pushing 30 and the RTS 01's and 03's which were pushing 13 had to go. Metro ordered 5 Model 416 buses from Ikarus and then ordered another 181 to be delivered between 1990-1992. in 1990, they also ordered some Micro-Buses and foolishly put them in service on local routes along with some mini-buses from Marco-Polo. In 1992, Metro took delivery of 53 suburban Ikarus buses and began the LNG era.
Metro converted RTS buses 2114-2116 to dual fuel so they could take LNG as well as Diesel fuel. It converted Marco-Polo buses 3100-3112? to LNG from CNG and began buying only dual fueled buses after the order of Ikarus Suburban buses, even converting one, 2729, to LNG and also one of the older transit models, 2579.
In late 1992, Metro recived 30 Mercedes buses and 85 more mini-buses from Ferroni which carried over into 1993. 50 0f the the Ferroni's were suburban and the other 35 were transit. All the Mercedes were suburban. Also, in 1993 Metro recieved 61 Neoplan 45 foot suburban buses, and 54 Neoplan 60 foot suburban buses, along with the last 60 Ikarus buses. All these orders were for dual fueled buses.
This buying spree effectively killed off the New Looks, the M.A.N buses, the RTS 01's and 03's, the Eagle 05's and weakened the Grumman 870 Rehab fleet.
In 1995, Metro took a break from buyin buses. They resumed in 1996 with an order of the first 30 New Flyer D40LF's. They effectively killed off about 30 or so Grummans but weren't really a threat to the veteran TRS-04's or the Metros. Metro then ordered a small test order of Neoplan artics. About 35 transit and one suburban. In 1997, after a three year break, Metro began another mass extermination of buses. In the spring and summer of 1997, Metro rid itself of the Micro-Buses, Marco-Polo mini-buses, and the Crown Articulated buses. There were now also only about 35 Grumman rehabs left. Metro took order of about 19 more Neoplan 60 foot suburban buses during the spring of 1997 and followed that up with another delivery of about 25-20 suburban buses in the fall. During the summer and fall of 1997, 67 Ne Flyer d40LF's found there way into the city and killed the last Grummans at West Facility. Also in late 1997, Metro recieved about 60 New Flyer D30LF's.
In early 1998, Metro recieved 45 Neoplan Artics and the first round of RTS and Flxible Metro retiring began along with a few Neoplan 30 foots and a few Eagles. The dissapearence of about 100 Flxible and RTS buses wasn't noticed at first, the presence of the next batch of New Flyers were. Furst to arrive were 5 C40LF's and 5 L40LF's. Then, the last 50 arrived in the late spring to early summer of 1998. The Flyes were beginning to show up on routes that were previously RTS and Flxible only. Also, this shifted the Ikarus buses onto previoulsy unchartered territory. In the fall, the last batch of New Flyer D30LF's arrived and the last Neoplan 30 foot buses were put into storage. Also, in late 1998, the last suburban Neoplan artics arrived and 9 more Neoplan artic transit style buses arrived but with the NYC style Express Seating.
In 1999, the influence of Flyer and Ikarus buses were being heavily felt on several routes. In the spring of 1999, another round of retiring took place. This time all the Neoplan 30 foot buses were retired, some more RTS buses, about 5 of the first Neoplan suburban buses, a few Eagles, some of the Ferroni's, and the Flxible fleet was destroyed with only 28 left.
In the fall and summer of 1999, Metro took delivery of 104 New Flyer Viking buses and that spelled the end of the Flxible buses which were kicked out of refuge at Hiram Clarke Facility by some transfereed RTS buses and the Vikings arrival. The Eagles of course went as well. Metro had effectively replaced all the buses it slated for replacement in a 1988 report before 2000 except the remaining 190 RTS buses.
In early 2000, Metro recieved the last 10 Neoplan artics with regular transit seating. Then, in the summer 2000 Metro recived the first order of the 28xx-29xx New Flyers. It didn't have a big impact on RTS activity until after school started back. Metro retired a whopping 100 RTS buses in the fall and the Flyers and Ikarus began running wild everywhere and here we are.
I'm so tired because this post took over an hour to type so I'll put a roster up tomorrow. I hoped you liked this little history lessom.
I enjoyed reading that thoroughly. Thank you.
I look forward to seeing your roster, and I would love to see more information or photos on Metro's old RTS slopebacks.
Thanks again,
Neil Greenberg
WOW! I think it took me almost as long to digest all of that info as it took for you to write it. We oughta nickname you the 'Trevor Logan of Houston'. Thank you for a *very very* informative post!
Interesting history - thank you.
I have 2 vague recollections about Houston buses, and wonder whether you might be able to shed some light on them. First of all, I believe that during the early Metro years you describe, with lots of bus problems, Houston "borrowed" many GM fishbowls from San Antonio. I forget exactly when this occurred or what happened to these fishbowls, i.e., were they returned to San Antonio? Secondly, I believe Houston purchased some buses from Stewart & Stevenson somewhere along the line, but don't remember much more than that.
This AM as I was ducking down into Main Street station, I glimpsed an N20 turning into Roosevelt: N20 FLUSHING
NO GREAT NECK LIRR
Didn't catch the bus number, but this is probably a new one, and a new sign message telling us the bus is continuing straight along Northern Boulevard past Middle Neck Road making the long, torturous detour in and out of Great Neck station. I always thought that's what the EXPRESS designation was for. People being people, there's sure to be some who interpret the sign as saying the bus DOES go to Great Neck LIRR, especially in an early morning stupor.
Just how many people would take a Queens-bound N20 or 21 to Great Neck to connect with the LIRR? The only real market I could see serving this purpose is for those living in the Spinney Hill projects along Community Drive just south of Northern, and that small hilly neighborhood just west of it. Anyone east of that would use the Manhasset station.
Or does an EXPRESS designation on the N20/21 mean it's a 'limited'?
[Reading: N20 FLUSHING / NO GREAT NECK LIRR....]
I've seen "N1 HEWLETT / NO V S LIRR" and "N1 JAMAICA / NO V S LIRR" along Hillside Avenue. It's interesting that a destination sign would tell where the bus DOESN'T go!
Regarding Limiteds, the N6 readings are a bit too cramped:
N6 LIMITED-JAMAICA
N6 LIMITED-HEMPSTD
Apparently, fitting everything in one line is far more important than providing readable (and thus useful) information.
That is what they are doing in DC now. On the 2100 and 2200 Orions, the sign will read 34NaylorGardens. A 4000 Orion would have done 34Naylor and then flipped to 34Gardens
The MetroDs do that, too (the stacked two lines). Interesting bit of arcana.
Incidentally, has anyone else noticed that they're starting to replace roof sheetmetal on 9XXX Metro Bs? The new stuff is made of textured, bumpy metal (aluminum?) a la '60s storm doors, and you can best make it out where a tab for the panel dips down onto the side of the bus right above the front door and again over the back window. The road numbers had to be reapplied on the front top corners, and since the metal is so bumpy, the decals look odd now.
Chris
Haven't noticed it. I am still trying to get used to the new paint scheme on 4071. I saw a Metro-E at Friendship this morning, too far away to catch unit number. The fact the new Orions have the smaller sign is more noticible since the 4000 series had the large letters. At least the number is still big.
I've also noticed that on a lot of Orion VI's in VA, they put some sort of blue sign across the very top. It used to just say "Metrobus", but now it has a banner on both sides that say something to the effect that these particular buses are easier to get on and off. On Saturday, I didn't catch the unit number, but an Orion VI also had a side advertisement on the left side. I'm not sure how they squeezed that thing on without it dragging on the ground.
I saw that on 2005 (I think) at King Street a few weeks ago.
What they could do is start advertising all sorts of things on the tops of these buses and it would look similar to the Bus-O-Ramas of the 1960's and 70's!
How do you fit "batwings" on an RTS, a Neoplan, an Orion, or any of the modern-era buses, since there is no room above the windows outside to install them?
Somehow batwings were once installed on a NYCT Grumman 870.(#631) I'm interested in seeing how this was done.
Actually, the N6 Limited readings aren't stacked at all. Even on the 16x112 MegaMax signs, "N6" is full height ("N" is 15 dots high and "6" is 16 dots), but "LIMITED-HEMPSTD" is squeezed into one 7-dot-high line. Again, a single line at all costs. Kind of defeats the purpose of the big signs, no?
From some photos I have seen from WMATA, even some of the newer Flxibles and the Ikarus artics did the same thing as the 4000-series Orions. It looks as though they finally are standardizing all the signs on the newer (1994 and later) buses.
Does anyone have a complete up to date listing of Destinations Signs
Thank you \
Steve
I saw a 300-series LI bus this morning. The sign said
N20 FLUSHING
VIA
N20NORTHERN
N20 BLVD
What's the deal with the "flying N?" Can't they just make a smaller N like NYCB has the small letters?
There are buses that do not stop at Great Neck LIRR in the AM, mostly N21's. I often take the 8:29am N21 to Flushing. Avoiding the Great Neck LIRR detour saves alot of time, and eases on the crowding. By skipping Great Neck, it shaves 10 minutes off the trip, between the extra time of the trip, and extra passengers ringing the bell and making stops in Queens.
Usually the sign on the bus says "N21 Flushing, then, No Great Neck RR" , and fortunately they have been using the new Orions.
I just wish there would be more of the buses in the PM (inbound) bypassing Great Neck.
I nowice when the front and side signs say
MTA LONG
ISLAND BUS
the back sign says
MW
What the heck is MW and what is it doing there?
I've seen that MW on the back of LI Bus 176 also.
I think any LI bus that has a rear sign has the MW when the front and side go
MTA LONG
ISLAND BUS
I saw it on one of the 300's the other day.
How about LIB change the sign so it reads
N20 FLUSHING
N20 via G. NECK
and those that bypass Great Neck have them say
N20 FLUSHING
N20 via NORTHERN
It would make more sense.
How about LIB change the sign so it reads
N20 FLUSHING
N20 via G. NECK
and those that bypass Great Neck have them say
N20 FLUSHING
N20 via NORTHERN
It would make more sense.
The winter pick will be posted on Mon. 12/4; picking will commence on 12/11.
Today for my second half pull out I was assigned RTS #7558 formerly PA1672. When I slipped into the drivers seat I was surprised to see that the steering wheel was equipped with a horn button from a Flxible bus. The horn button was white and had the Flxible logo inside an elongated oval. Both the logo and oval were white. Where maintenance got this horn button from is a mystery. While Flxible buses have long been departed from the NYCTA fleet its good to know at least a very small part of this once great bus manufacturer still roams the streets of New York.
That is very cool! Now another interesting thing about 7558 is that it is back at it's original home. PA1672 was at 126th Street before it was retired along with PA1674 which had the clear windows. So reincarnation exisits in the bus world! LOL!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Well, at least that the horn button is off another transit bus. SEPTA is (or was) replacing the steering wheels off The Neoplan AN-435 and AN-440 buses with steering wheels which resemble steering wheels that look like they came off of VOLKSWAGEN "Buses". I kid you not. But don't worry, the 6V92TA will not be replaced with an air-cooled flat-4.
This morning while working the M31 I spotted New Flyer articulated #5407 being tested on the M66 line. The bus was not carrying any passengers. Upon returning to the depot I found out that the bus had been out all day running on various 126th St Depot lines in order to see how it performed. It is doubtful that articulateds will ever see service on the M66 or M72 since the clearances of the underpasses in the 66th Street transverse are low and would require the bus to ride right down the center of the road to avoid striking them.
This evening while working the M57 I spotted MCI #2772 sporting Ulmer Park logos and running in service on run 17 of the X27 line. The bus departed from Madison and 57th Street at 5:58 PM.
I heard from a friend of mine on the Q66 that after Dec 31, 2000, the DOT Contract will be up meaning that the drivers will be without a contract meaning that they can strike. As of right now it is probable that the DOT Companies WILL strike. Also the DOT depots will be up for bid meaning that the MTA can possibly buy them over. Stay tuned as I'll find out more in the upcoming weeks.
You're listing to a militant driver.
- "after Dec 31, 2000, the DOT Contract will be up meaning that the drivers will be without a contract meaning that they can strike"
Contract negotiations are currently going on. As long as both sides are still talking it too soon to expect a strike.
- "DOT (companies) will be up for bid meaning that the MTA can possibly buy them over"
The franchies were RENEWED, and the MTA/TA was never part of the equation. A new company might be awarded the franchise(s) in the future. There also was a bill proposed at the State Assembly.
Gary, my friend, do you need to get more sleep ? You usually have the facts streighter. Maybe you need to get GREENed again ?
Mr t__:^)
Thurston, My final exams are about 3 weeks away and the classes are stressing me out. I think that's 1 of the reasons why I don't have my facts straight. When I heard the facts from my friend on the Q66 (run 129), I was shocked to hear it and the way he said it to me sounded like that it was really gonna happen. He said it's an 80% probability. Now I need to get me some sleep ;)
If they're wrong, they ain't facts.
-Hank
I hope the courses aren't liberal arts related!
Why is everybody stealing my innovation? I have to get a closeup of "5200"
running on...
I just joined in on the parade. And 7215 IS 1 of my favorite R142A cars-it was also the 1st car that I saw (R142A)
Have any of you realized your little photo signatures are bigger than your entire message?
-Hank
Yeah.
running on...
Do you know when the franchasies were renewed exactly? The reason I ask this question is because I have a friend at Jamaica Buses who is not a "militant driver", and he told me the same information on Tuesday night. I do hope that the franchaise is renewed, but I am wondering why most of the DOT buses now have "Offical" license plates, instead of the "BUS" plates that they have always carried in the past. By seeing this I have always wondered what was going to be the "fate" of the DOT companies.
Thanks in advance!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Can't put my hands on the specific article ... might have seen it on the local e-mail (one of the staff searches the Times/News/etc. for transportation articles & forwards to a group that I'm in),
anyhow the new Transportation Commis (also the wife of our Senator) said she intended to extend the franchises for two years. She planned to start a effort to re-bid them next year.
What is probally confusing folks is a "Public Hearing" December 11th "... relative to the EXTENSION of ... to January 11, 2002".
Last week the "Public Notices" were being plaster up all over the place.
Disclaimer: I'm not an official spokesperson for nycDOT or my employeer, but these are the facts as I know them.
Mr t__:^)
As part of the last contract agreeements with buses unions, a "regional" bus division was agreed to. All the unions leaders (Local 100 and 106) promised that it would take years of discussions to finalize such a plan.
But, you never know/.
Wasn't that only a NYTC/MaBSTOA thing ?
Some of the drivers at the "privates" are TWU local 100, but some are IAM.
BTW, Are you signed up to be one of Santa's helpers at that depot up North ? If so you may be working with Lou from Brooklyn who will be wearing his Yamaka under his hat ;-)
Mr t__:^)
Yes, I'll be going up there next Sunday December 10, hoping to maybe finally met you Thurston, met your buddy Lou at the Halloween special.
As I understood this, The Regional Bus Company was only agreed to as far as "discussions" are concerned, etc. The actual formation and implementation of such a company has not been approved by any unions (or if it has, please post the article).
RBC was one of the main factors in last Decembers strike talks. I read the contract, and it stated that "discussions" would be permitted, however no actual plans to implement this fiasco were agreed to. I'm going to check the contract again and will post that section here (as well as the URL) if it's still available online.
QV
I heard something called the Queens Operating Authority (like a new Mabstoa) will be created. My source told me December 12th, but i doubt that. Perhaps on 1/1/2001???I would assume this new entity would be comprised of the DOT privates.
Of course don't expect them to start mixing and matching routes with depots, since the privates fall under TWU and Queens TA falls under ATO 1056.
It's not going to happen. This bill has NOT LEFT COMMITTEE. Unless there is a dramatic change of events, there will be no strike, and the DOT private buses will remain private.
-Hank
Wednesday Nov 22 and THursday Nov 23,2000
Equiptment Setup for Parade
81 st bet Columbus Av and CPW
79 st Transverse closed Nove 22 12 PM
65/66 st Transverse closed Nove 23 8 AM
11 AM Wednesday to 3 PM Thursday
M79 EB
wast on 79 st ,Amsterdam,86 ,CP Transverse to 5 Av,Souht on 5 av to Eaast 79 EB and regular
M79 WB
west on 79 ,Madison Av,85 st,CP Transverse,Broadway,79 st st west on 79 and regular
5 PM to 10 PM Wednesday Nove 22
m7 SB
regualr to Columbus Av ,86 st,Bway,to 65 and regualr
M11 SB
Regualr to Colubus Av,86st,Bway,65 .9 Av SB and reg
M10 NB
reg to 72 st,west on 72,Amsterdam av,86 st,CPW NB and regualr
M10 SB
reg to CPW to 86 st,to Bway south on Bway to 63 st and regular
WEDNESDAY NOV 22 AND THURSDAY NOV 23
EQUIPMENT SETUP FOR PARADE
BWAY BET 34 AND 38 ST
10 PM Wednesday Nove 22 to 3 AM Thursday
m6 M&
Southbound
South on Bwy to 42 st,to 7 av to 32 st to Bway and SB and regualr
M5 SB
South on Bwy to Columbus av/9 Av,at 65 st,south on 9 av ,to 57 st ,to 5 av, and regualr
m5 NB
North on 6 av,30 st,madison av,39 st,6 av,57 st,10 av ,amsterdam av to 72 st and regular
m10 NB
Norht on 8 av,Circle ,Bway Amsterdam Av,86 st,CP West and regualr
M10 SB
South on CP west to 86 st,Columbus Av,9 av,57 st,to 7 Av,SB and regular
M20 NB
regualr to Circle to Bway ,66 st,west end av,65 st,to Bway and South to Terminal
M20
SB
regular route
!0 PM Wednesday Nove 22 ----8 AM Thursday
M72 EB
east on 72 ,Columbus Av,65 st,CP Transverse and regular
M72 WB
west on 65 st,Transverse,65 st,Bway ,to 72 st WB and regular
WEDNESDAY NOVE 22 AND THURSDAY NOVE 23
EQUIPMENT SETUP FOR PARADE
BWAY BET 34 AND 38 ST
10 PM Wednesday Nov 22 ---3 PM Thursday
M104 SB
South on Bway ,Columbus Av,9 av,42 st EB and regular
M104 NB
Regular
2 am to 8 AM before Parade -Thursday
M7 SB
South on Columbus av,9 av,57 st,5 av to 23 st, south on bway and regular
M4 SB
South on 5 AV,29 st,7 av and terminate on 7 Av bet 28 and 29 st
m4 NB
South on 7 av,to 26 st,Madison Av NB and regular
q32
Hudson Pullouts
2 AM to 3 PM
Thursday
use 23 to madison ,to 29 st,to 7 av,south on 7 to near side of 28 st
2 AM to 3 PM Before and during Parade on Thursday
Q32 SB
South on 5 av to 29 st,7 av,teminate on near side of 28 st at 7 av RELEIFS MADE HERE
Q32 NB
South on 7 av,to 26 st,Madison Av and NB
M16 M34
EB
East on 34 st,9 av,South on 9 ,30 st,Madison 34 st ,east on 34 and regualr
m16 M34 Westbound
West on 34 ,5 Av,31 st,8 Av,34 s and regular
M16 CONTINUE NORTH ON 8 AV and Regualr
M6
Hudson Pullouts
3 AM TO 3 PM
Thursday ,,runs start at 59 st
3 AM to 3 PM M6 SB
east on 57 st,5 Av,Bway ,bear left at 25 st,South on Bway and regular
M6 NB
North on 6 av,30 st,Madison Av,39 st,6 av,to 57 st and terminate
8 AM ---3 PM during parade Thursday
m7 SB
south Columbus av 9 av,65 st,9 av,30 st Bwaay SB and regular
M7 NB
noth on 6 av,30 st,Madison 39 st,6 av,57 st,8 av,circle,and regular
WEDNESDAY NOVE 22 AND THURSDAY NOVE 23
EQUIPMENT SETUP FOR PARADE
BWAY BET 34 AND 38 ST
3 AM to 3 PM Before and during parade on Thursday
M10 SB
south on CPW, 86 st,Columbus Av,9 av at 65 st,9 av ,30 st to 8 av to terminate
M10/M30 Dispatcher to move to 42 and 9 Av
reliefs made at 9 Av
M10 NB
NOrht on 8 av,Circle to Bway ,Amsterdam ,86 st,CPW,NB and regular
M20 NB
North on 8 av,57 st,9 av,and Terminate,,stand on 9 Av
M20 SB
from Stand ,south on 9 av,,30 st,7 av SB and regualr
8 AM to 3 PM during parade Thanksgiving
M27 SB
North on 8 av,57 st,5 av to 50 st EB and regualr
M27 WB
west on 49 st,6 av,57 st,9 Av,40 st,8 Av north on 8 av and terminate
WEDNESDAY NOVE 22 AND THURSDAY NOVBE 23
EQUIPMENT SETUP FOR PARADE
BWAY BET 34 AND 38 ST
8 AM ---3 PM during parade Thursday
M50 EB
East on 50 st ,8 av,57 st,5 av,50 EB and reg
m50 WB
west on 49 st ,6 av,57 st,9 av ,49 St WB and reg
M66
EB
East on 65 st ,Bwy,86 st,CP Transverse.5 av,65 st EB and reg
M66 WB
West on 67 st,Madison ,85 st,CP Transverse,Columbus Av 66 st WB and regular
M72
EB
east on 72 st ,Amsterdam ,86 st ,CP Transverse
CP Transverse,5 Av,72 EB to reg
M72
WB
West on 72 st,Madison ,85 st,,CP Transverse,Columbus Av,72 st WB and reg
THIS INFO IS FOR YOUR USE IF YOU NEED IT
CHRISTMAS WILL BE NEXT
STEVE
RE: The "Official" tags:
My guess is that NYCDOT has decided to register the buses on behalf of the City of New York, rather than have them registered under the carriers. I don't know the signifigance of it, though.
The carriers don't own the buses, NYCDOT does.Therefore they are registered to the City and carry "Official" plates.
Correct-a-menta.
BTW, Some of the coaches run by the privates are owned by them. It's usually a small number & they tend to be the oldest ones. They have a couple of rerasons for doing this. Right now all of QSC coaches are City owned.
Mr t__:^)
Easy. When a new operator is eventually chosen, the city doesn't have to do anything to the buses other than say to the companies involved 'These are for you!'
-Hank
I heard also that buses 404 and 437 have a speak easy system installed in them. This is the test for QS. TCC will be next.
Q66#437Gary
"404 and 437 have a speak easy system installed in them"
They use CNG not alchol :-) Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about, can you please being me up to speed ?
Mr t
The Speak Easy System is the PA system used by the NYCTA,5503 & 5504 at GBL and a few buses at Command.With this system the driver makes his announcement into the system by pressing one button and then plays it back by hitting another button allowing announcement be played on the internal and external speakers of the bus.Not too many drivers use it though.Opting for the regular radio near the farebox
Command Orion #4935 has the speak easy system and like mentioned in the previous post I have yet to see or hear a driver use it on that bus.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
transitworld.org
OK, I know what that is, just didn't know the name of it. LI Bus has them & I've riden one with it on ... worked pritty well. I also was surprised to see QSC Orions with those external speakers.
BTW, the two Deer powered coaches aren't leaving this depot. Not that they couldn't go to Triboro or Command OR even Green & Jamaica. But at the latter two they would have come by our depot every night for a fill up. I may have said before that one of these was going to given to another operator, but we said that Deer would get a better test with two at the same depot, i.e. more time on the road. They liked the idea, the rest is history.
P.S. Kevin, would the hairs on the back of you neck be itching by any chance ... mentioned your name in a e-mail to colleague at Branford this AM (I said you were a busbuff I've met)
Mr t__:^)
I just saw on WMATA's website and also saw a little story on News Channel 8 that starting on Monday, Dec. 4 a new route, 5A, will operate 7 days a week between L'Enfant Plaza in SW DC and Dulles Airport, making stops at Rosslyn Metro and at the Herndon/Monroe Park and Ride Lot. When I first heard about this route, I thought it was something that was supposed to get people to the airport and I figured the route would flop quicker than SmartMover. However, I see that its purpose is to get DC residents to outlying areas not served by transit, which I hope is very successful. This is a good start, but more routes like this should be designed. I was wondering why I saw a Southern Avenue bus, 4020, with what appeared to be a dozen or so bus operators on board, come through the Rosslyn Station. They were probably doing a test run. I'm not sure what buses will be used and from the looks of the schedule, it doesn't look like too many will be needed.
I saw that too. 4112 got its SmartMover markings removed awhile back. Maybe they will use that for the 5A. Will this route use the access road and then switch over to the toll road to exit at the bus only exit in Herndon?
Its possible they would use ex-SmartMover buses rather than the convential buses. I was trying to figure out if they would use the Access Road then switch over too. I'm not sure if there are ramps to go from one to the other. Maybe for buses there are. Otherwise it would get stuck with the other traffic trying to get through the toll booths. I'm not sure how the Fairfax Connector buses that run from West Falls Church to Herndon do it. Sounds like I may need to go on a field trip soon to try this route out. However, I don't know if I want to hang around Dulles for very long!
The Fairfax Connector buses use the access road and then take a exit somewhere near Herndon which is open rush hours only. There isn't anything though to prevent an ordinary driver from pulling this off at rush hour. The gates are closed all other times. Also, SmartMover buses have a Smartag for the tolls.
Oh, ok. I bet the 5A will do the same then. I'm sure they will equip these buses with the smartag so it could slip through.
4112??? I didn't know they 4100 series went that high.
Wayne
I think he meant 4412. The 4100 series ends at 4104.
I concur. The last 4100 is 4104 and most of the SmartMover buses were 4400-series suburban Orions.
Has the SmartMover ceased operation? That would be sad. I never had the chance to ride it (I almost did but a GM New Look #2592 passing on the J2 was too good to pass us) but it seems like it is well-tailored to inter-suburban commuter needs, at least during rush hours.
Neil Greenberg
SmartMover still runs bit I believe it needs less buses than before. You can easily tell this bus used to be in SmartMover service since you can see where the letters used to be. Last saw it on the J9 at Bethesda.
Yeah, the SmartMover is hanging in there, by a thread. Several months ago, all trips after 7:30PM were discontinued. I think the one time I took that bus at 9PM for whatever demented reason I did, I was probably the only one ever to have done that as the bus operator seemed surprised that I was waiting for it at Bethesda.
It really has a lot of potential, but unfortunately, it only benefits those traveling from Maryland to VA. Even though the bus goes to the heavily populated area of Tysons Corner in VA, there is no designated park and ride lot for people to use in that area to go to MD. There are a few spots at the Westpark Transit Station, but that's it. But, in Montgomery County, people can park at Lakeforest Mall, Montgomery Mall, or easily take the metro or another bus to Bethesda.
I've seen the Suburban-style Orions on the J8 and J9 as well and once in a great while, I've seen it on one of the Z's. A few of the high 4300's run around in VA too.
The reason no one likes it is because VDOT won't let it operate in the shoulder of I-495 in VA. They thought it was too dangerous. Because of this, the buses aren't moving any faster than the cars, and the only advantage is you can be a little productive. If VDOT lightened up, it would have been a success and if they change their stubborn minds, it might be.
I'll be in SmartMover range tomorrow afternoon. Weather I see one is a different matter. I see the 14A to Tysons in the morning sometimes and it only has 3-5 people on it.
Yeah, VDOT really messed them up. Except for going over the American Legion Bridge, that bus would be able to fly on the Beltway if it were allowed to ride the shoulder. Maybe some extra marketing would help, too. I think a lot of this is Fairfax County's fault too. Even though they have so many transit options, they are always looking for a way to take over Metrobus service. This is why I like Arlington so much. They are very pro transit and every 6 months or so, have free coupons for people to ride the buses. In fact, I saw some numbers recently that showed every Arlington metrobus route had an increase in ridership, some almost doubling.
I did mean 4412. Sorry.
yukon has now placed 55 mci buses of the model year 2001 in service. buses 2062-2071 of the year 2000 vintage have been transferred to castleton and they in turn have sent several express orions to casey stengel. buses 2755-2762 have a different drivers console. they have digital mileage gauges and a carrier ac/heating system. unfortunately nyct has still not opted for computerized run signs and driver shoulder belts.
Today I saw 2773 on the X-27 in passenger service. Looked great and did not have any advertisements on it yet. It was nice to see a MCI with an Ulmer Park Depot sticker.
Peace,
Kevin
transitworld.org
For more than a few months, N19 buses during the early morning hours display (as part of the message) "No Sunrise Mall"; I think it is a handy piece of information: the bus runs straight on Merrick Road rather than making the long detour to the Mall.
Just got a copy of the March, 1973 Motor Coach Age. I'll post more after I read it thoroughly, but there's a picture of a Flx with the roof hump that was recently discussed and misunderstood multiple times. It's about the size of the A/C unit on the roof of the New Flyer D60s, but it's almost directly over the first section of the roof. The caption notes the unit contains two-way radio equipment, which implies it's much more than just the antenna. I'll scan some parts if I get a chance.
-Hank
Ok. I drove you all nuts with the first two quizzes. Now I'm throwing a curve ball at you with this Bronx Bus Route quiz.
You've really gotta be a major bus nut to get this one completely correct. I did this quiz myself and you know how many I got right? ONE. YUCK.
So, here it goes. Just like before, I compared the current 2000 Bronx Bus Map with the 1974 Bronx Bus Guide. Hopefully this guide did'nt have any misprints like that B15/B63 debacle in the 74 Man.guide.
1)Here are the CURRENT route numbers listed below. Can you name the old route number? I only listed the lines which did'nt have a super major route change.
Bx3
Bx4
Bx6
Bx9
Bx13
Bx14
Bx15
Bx17
Bx21
Bx22
Bx26
Bx28
Bx31
Bx32
Bx34
2)The current Bx19 was actually covered by two different runs back in 1974. Can you name them?
3)On the OLD Bx7, what was the main thoroughfare that this line ran on?
4)Fieldston Road(by the Fieldston School) in Riverdale used to have two TA bus lines serve that area(now it has zero). In 1974, what two lines served Fieldston Road?
5)Today's Bx30 operates between 205 St. D line station and Co-op City via Gun Hill Road and Boston Road. The OLD Bx6 also started at 205 St. and followed the exact same route but did'nt go as far as the current Bx30 does. Where did the old Bx6 end?
6)In 1974, what route served Food Center Drive by the Hunts Point Food Center? What was unique about this route?
Answers posted on the next post.
OK I was waiting for this one.
Bx3 - Bx38
Bx4 - Bx42
Bx6 - Bx34
Bx9 - Bx20
Bx13 - Bx37
Bx14 - Bx22
Bx15 - Bx29
Bx17 - Bx3
Bx21 - Bx26
Bx22 - Bx13
Bx26 - Bx17
Bx28 - Bx15
Bx31 - Bx9
Bx32 - Bx25
Bx34 - Bx4
2 - The current Bx19 is a combination of the old Bx31 which operated from Bronx Botanical Gardens to 133 Street and the Bx30 was the 149th/145th Street Crosstown route. The Bx31 was a West farms route and the Bx30 was a 146th Street (now Mother Clara Hale) route.
3 - The old Bx7 ran along Boston Road. It operated out of Coliseum Depot.
4 - Fieldston Road servive was provided by the Bx24 and some Bx10 (now Bx7) buses - both of these routes operated out of Kingsbridge depot.
5 - The old Bx6 terminated at Boston Road and Corsa Ave. It operated out of Coliseum Depot.
6 - Hunts Point food Center was served by a Bx34 shuttle. The route servered only the Food Center area and it was called the Bx34A Shuttle at one point.
Wayne
Whoa! You NAILED this quiz. I give you the official "Bronx Bus Quiz PROPS!!!"
Wayne is the official zman179 "Bronx Bus King". All hail!
Thanks - I have to admit that I grew up in the Bronx, but it was fun thinking back to complete your quiz. I remember well when the re-numberings took place. It really confused a lot of people as the route numbers (and many route changes, extentions, depot assignments etc.) all took place on the same day. In the beginning to assist riders the buses had signs in the windshields with the old route number and a slash through it and the new route number next to it.
Wayne
Interesting -- in Manhattan, the route number changes have taken place bit-by-bit. Possibly the most confusing one was the initial changes on 57th Street, 59th Street, and 72nd Street: the M103 was cancelled, and the M28 was replaced by the M57 and M58. At the same time, the M30 was cut back and the M72 created. I may still have the pamphlet the TA distributed at this time -- I'll keep an eye out for it.
(What other changes have been worthy of pamphlets? On the subway, there was a pamphlet on the return of the N to the Manhattan Bridge -- little did the TA know the return would last only a few months. I may still have that one also.)
What are the route assignments when Coliseum reopens?
I'm sure it's still a mystery, but I'd guess that Coliseum won't get many of it's old routes other than the Bx40/42 - But Coliseum would likely get many of the old West Farms routes that serves the SE Bronx such as the Bx21, Bx36, Bx27 etc. Remember this is just me guessing:-).
Wayne
)Here are the CURRENT route numbers listed below. Can you name the old route number? I only listed the lines which did'nt have a super major route change.
Bx3 Bx38
Bx4 Bx42
Bx6 Bx34
Bx9 Bx20
Bx13 Bx37
Bx14 Bx22
Bx15 Bx29
Bx17 Bx3
Bx21 Bx26
Bx22 Bx13
Bx26 Bx17
Bx28 Bx15
Bx31 Bx9
Bx32 Bx25
Bx34 Bx4
2)The current Bx19 was actually covered by two different runs back in 1974. Can you name them? Bx31 (Southern Blvd) and Bx30 (149th St.)
3)On the OLD Bx7, what was the main thoroughfare that this line ran on? Boston Road.
4)Fieldston Road(by the Fieldston School) in Riverdale used to have two TA bus lines serve that area(now it has zero). In 1974, what two lines served Fieldston Road? Bx24, Bx10.
5)Today's Bx30 operates between 205 St. D line station and Co-op City via Gun Hill Road and Boston Road. The OLD Bx6 also started at 205 St. and followed the exact same route but did'nt go as far as the current Bx30 does. Where did the old Bx6 end? Gun HIll & Boston Roads
.
6)In 1974, what route served Food Center Drive by the Hunts Point Food Center? What was unique about this route? Bx34 Shuttle.
Five out of six is excellent! Only one you missed:
>>>Where did the old Bx6 end? Gun HIll & Boston Roads<<<
Almost. It ended at Boston Rd and Corsa Av one block away from Eastchester Rd and 7 blocks northeast from Gun Hill Rd.
So did ya cheat? That's the only way I would have gotten these all right.
1)Today Bx3---Old number Bx38
Bx4---old Bx42
Bx6---old Bx34
Bx9---old Bx20(the only one that I got right)
Bx13---old Bx37
Bx14---old Bx22
Bx15---old Bx29
Bx17---old Bx3
Bx21---old Bx26
Bx22---old Bx13
Bx26---old Bx17
Bx28---old Bx15
Bx31---old Bx9
Bx32---old Bx25
Bx34---old Bx4
2)Today's Bx19 route used to be covered by the old Bx30 and Bx31. The only part of the old route that today's Bx19 does not cover is along Southern Blvd. to 133rd St. & Cypress Ave.
3)The old Bx7 used to operate along Boston Road and a small portion of Bronx Park East. Today, there is no TA bus service operating along Boston Rd. between Bx.Pk.E. and Gun Hill Road. The old Bx7 served this area.
4)The Bx10 and Bx24 served Fieldston Rd.
5)The old Bx6 terminated at Boston Rd and Corsa Av one block away from Eastchester Rd. The old Bx6 route was about half of today's Bx30 route.
6)The old Bx34 Shuttle served Food Center Drive. This old shuttle had a circular route running around Food Ctr Dr and then via Randall Av, Tiffany St and Viele Av and then back around Food Ctr Dr again. The route was shaped on the map like a figure 8. It ran during rush hours only. Randall/Tiffany/Viele currently have no bus service.
i saw this in a model magazine recently. though the picture was small, it did look like a ORION V model. I guess they do make it in ho scale (though it says the size was 1/76). Anyobdy know where to find it, let me know.
New Flyer articulated bus #5407 was assigned to run 74 on the M15 today and ran in service until 8PM. The driver reported no problems and said the bus negotiated all the tight turns and narrow streets in lower Manhattan without any difficulty. Tomorrow the bus will be assigned to another run on the M15. Sister bus #5406 is being used for driver training.
Awesome! I'd really love to see Artics running on the M15.
M15#5406Gary
How do they pull in the articulateds for vacuming?
The regular pull in door?
I remember when in training out of 126 St. it was difficult pulling a RTS through that door at that angle!
artics will be assigned there but it was stated the option for buses 5510-5649 was taken but delivery would not begin until oct 2001, has there been a change in the scheduled delivery?
We are being told to expect delivery to begin sometime in 2001. In all probability the 15 buses from Kingsbridge depot will arrive first followed by the new ones.
The regular pull in door is being used. The buses are vacuumed, refueled and driven through the wash with no problems
New Jersey Transit will be replacing the 1985 Volvo B-10M Transit and 1986 Volvo B-10M Suburban Articulated buses 3-4 years from now with either NABI Model 436 Suburbans or Neoplan AN460 Transliner Articulated buses. As noted before NJ Transit did not want Neoplan buses but is now considering them as a option for Articulated replacements because of options available.
As for the Flxible METRO-B Suburbans & Transits they will be in full swing for another 5-6 years, the replacements will be NovaBUS RTS-06 WFD EXPRESS & RTS-06 WFD Transits.
The new MCI D4000 Cruisers will be coming in full swing VERY soon, the D4000/96 and D45000 Cruisers will follow sometime mid-next year.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Speaking of the MCI D4000 Cruisers, a friend of mine spotted 7503, in all white, at the Red & Tan Westwood, NJ, garage yesterday.
I thought NJ transit didn't want any RTS-06 WFD(aka RTS-08's)or was that only the Super Suburban
They want them, they just didn't want them now (i.e. as replacements for the Cruisers). But they want them as replacements for the METRO-B Suburbans
Trevor Logan
why didnt MTA get the same type of RTS buses as NJ Transit did?
They did get the same type RTS (T80-206/RTNFD82, pantograph plug doors front and rear), but they use different powertrain combinations-NJT 2600's (AFAIK) have Cummins C8.3/Voith D863 while the 1000's have Cummins ISC/ZF 5HP-592 combination. MBTA's buses have the Series 50/Allison (not sure of the model-V731 or B400?) combination. The windows are different also-NJT's have the transom tilt-in type while MBTA's have sliding sash. On another subject, admittedly, I don't like any of the iterations of the wide front door design, but I could accept it as being a necessary evil since the normal door is only 30" wide, but take a look at Nova BUS literature and you will find that they went and messed up that beautiful front end for 5 1/2 inches more door width (35 1/2"). If that was all the space they needed, why not just extend the normal front end module to accomodate a wider plug door?
Death to the WFD!! (as it is currently)
Peace,
Big D
P.S. of course I'm just kidding in my last comment, I do realize that manufacturers have to be responsive to their customers' needs and that I won't be placing an order for a few hundred RTS' anytime soon!
Actually, I think we need to thank NJ Transit for keeping the RTS-06 alive. I agree that those wide front door RTS's barely look like RTS's at all; they are downright ugly buses! Interesting to note the evolution of the WFD RTS. The first version (seen only on the 491 RTS's of CTA and SMART's 33 1990 RTS's) from afar looks almost like a regular RTS. The second version (Austin, Long Beach, Honolulu, etc) was a drastic departure from the sleek nature of the RTS. The destination sign is completely disunified from the windshield, and the headlights are purely square. Hardly RTS-like. The third and current rendition is NovaBUS's take on the WFD RTS. The way the headlights look, it looks like the bumper tried to swallow the headlights of a regular RTS. Also, the only two RTS-07's are of the second WFD style. Strange how some transit systems order WFD RTS's but still opt for the rear door wheelchair lift, such as TTC.
I'm sure the RTS will be around for a while yet, and if low floor buses really end up representing 98% of the new transit bus market like die-hard low floorists claim (I doubt that it will ever be that high) and only one standard floor bus were to survive, it would be the RTS.
I sometimes forget just how much I love RTS's. You people in NYC probably suffer from the same syndrome. Both of my local transit systems operate fleets dominated by RTS's, but when one of those systems replaces its entire fleet with (piece of crap) Gillig low floors over the next three years, I'll sure be missing those sleek curves and aerodynamic contours! It takes a system with only a few RTS's to truly make me appreciate them.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: GM destroyed transit in the US, but they sure did know how to design a bus! I think the Old Look, the New Look, and the RTS are the most attractive and durable buses ever built.
Neil Greenberg
¡Que viva el subjuntivo!
>>I sometimes forget just how much I love RTS's. You people in NYC probably suffer from the same syndrome. Both of my local transit systems operate fleets dominated by RTS's, but when one of those systems replaces its entire fleet ... I'll sure be missing those sleek curves and aerodynamic contours! ...<<
I too have to admit missing the RTS's. On my morning Express Bus route we are going through what I call the "Orion Phase-In". With this comes the end of our exposure to the RTS's and it's reknown durability. The funny thing is that with the Orion's it's the little things that add up to giving one the feeling that it's not as solid as an RTS, not to mention the feeling that you are traveling in a windowed shoe box.
None of the NJT Nova RTS-06 have Voiths in them.
The 1995-96 (#2601-2775) have Cummins C8.3s to a ZF Ecomat HP590. The 1999-2000 (#1001-1576, 2501-2508) have Cummins ISCs to a ZF Ecomat HP592.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
ARE THERE ANY GOOD LINKS TO PICS OF THESE BUSES? I WAS GETTING READY TO WRITE A POST ABOUT NJ TRANSIT AND FOUND THIS.
The MTA can really learn something from NJ Transit.
Today at my garage (Fairview), We prepped two Volvo B-10M Suburbans for a funeral service aside the normal interior quality controls we do to our buses. I was responsible for one (Bus #9241) and another maintainer was responsible for the other (Bus #9240). The speical attention payed to these buses wore me out but was worth it, these buses were given fresh paint, and as my duty, I gave this bus a full interior bath, she looked brand new.
The funeral service is for the boy killed in the accident about 3-4 days ago in Cliffside Park, NJ wherein he plowed into one of our buses (Flxible METRO-B #3504).
NJ Transit's higher ups offered the relatives two of our buses to provide transportation for the funeral goers.
Now the MTA isn't no where near as warm hearted, not that I see on the surface. Our brother Angel was killed last year in a bus accident on Thanksgiving, and finally one year later they want to put up a plaque and give a service. Not saying that isn't appreciated, but it's small compared to what NJT is doing for a family who's fatality was not even a NJT employee, can you imagin what they'd do for a NJT employee. Jackie Gleason Garage at least could've given Angel like a CNG Bus Salute or something huge.
I don't know, maybe it's me, but just a plaque is too insenstive.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Well, I see what you mean, but, well, if I had a child or a family member who was killed in a bus accident, the last thing I would want to see is a bus. So, that's my opinion personally. Besides, I think a plaque would last much longer than a prepped up bus anyway.
I agree with you. It was a nice gesture by NJ Transit. I can see it now - if someone even dared to suggest this to the MTA... they'd come up with a story about how they cannot do it. That's the MTA way.
Wayne
New York City transit buses would view providing buses to a accident victim as admitting liabilty.
NYC transit is not a family business but a gigantic bureaucracy with thousands of faceless workers you equate to just being a number.
And dont forget the equal number or lawywers as well!
>>>NYC transit is not a family business but a gigantic bureaucracy with thousands of faceless workers you equate to just being a number. <<<
The same can be said of NJ Transit
Peace,
ANDEE
Not necessarily true Andee. As a NJ Transit employee, The treat of it's workers is that 100 times better than the TA.
My garage alone, the supervision there is so family oriented it can be sickening but it's fun. There is warmth within the brass too. At least as employees we can voice a opinion to the brass and it's heeded. We maybe numbers, but at least we are heard and valuable numbers to NJ Transit higher ups!
As a employee myself, I've suggested many things, and all but one was taking under advisement and done!
So I wouldn't make that comment about NJT, and that's not because I work for them but because I've seen them in action myself.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I have met several NJT operators who now work with me at MABSTOA and tell me pretty much the same thing. Management is not as harsh at NJT as they are in OA.
The only reason for their leaving is because of more money and hours at NYC transit.
I was really making the comparison as to the 2 agencies large size. They are both large Government Bureaucracies. It is good to hear that NJT treats it's employees like adults though.
Peace,
ANDEE