Where is a good place to go to complain about bus schedules in Brooklyn? B68 is late all the time, busses missing etc. The schedule is goofy and in general a complete mess.
Missing buses make the other buses late, unevenly, and overcrowded, and they're a function of a shortage of Operators and/or buses, not a poorly designed schedule. Does the line run poorly even when all buses seem to be out there?
David
I don't know. I take the bus at about 0700 and some times it doesn't arrive and i have to wait 20 or more minutes. The scheduled time is every 14 but it can often run up to 30 mins. And this is on a weekday morning.
That's kind of early in the day for things to screw up that badly. It's possible that some of the buses on the route are, indeed, missing (though it shouldn't happen every day at the same time). If that's the case, a new schedule wouldn't help.
David
where do i go to find out what is causing the problem?
Call the NYCT Bus Customer Service Center, 888-NYCT-BUS. They can have the problem investigated. If it's a scheduling problem, they can let the scheduling people know about it. If it's a crew/vehicle shortage problem, they can let you know; that's the kind of thing that eventually irons itself out, but there's just so much that can be done until that happens.
David
I read in the SILive Transit Forum that there is a bus manufacture that is sitting at Yukon Bus Depot, does anyone have any idea on what bus is at Yukon & it's seriel number assigned to it.
In addition, in one of the post, someone mentioned that 57 buses were going to be purchased (which might be a rumor). Can anyone confirm this.
They're building buses in Yukon depot? This I have to see!
-Hank
You didn't hear about it Hank? It was in the Advance. The MTA is going to build them at Yukon and then sell them across the street at Costco.
Since these are going to Costco, are they going to be super-size, 75 foot buses?
Years ago, the B52 used to run on Quincy/Linden Sts heading towards Ridgewood and on Gates towards Dwntn Bklyn. Now it is running on Gates in both directions. Can someone tell me the reason behind this? Was it traffic patterns or community pressure? I remember seeing public hearing notices about this issue on the buses.
B52#9148Mike
From what I understand, Quincy Street underwent reconstruction and sewer work that took years to finish. Much like the Convent Avenue reconstruction that spelled doom for the M3 Convent branch. Anyway, during the construction, the 52 ran in both directions on Gates Avenue. After Quincy was finally done, community pressure made the detour permanent. I believe thats how it went down.
Mark
As I remember, it was a construction detour that proved very popular, and thus was retained.
Until about 1974, the Q15 ran in both directions along a very narrow Roosevelt Avenue between Bowne Street and 150th Street. Then that stretch of Roosevelt was dug up, so the Q15 was rerouted 'temporarily' to 41st Avenue, which parellels Roosevelt one block south, separated by the cut of the LIRR's Port Washington branch.
The Flushing-bound bus now stops directly in front of the entrance to the Murray Hill station, and it seems many Q15 riders from north Flushing and Whitestone use the LIRR rather than the '7' into Manhattan judging from how many people get off there in the morning.
With 41st Avenue being much wider than Roosevelt, this change became permanent. It is kind of strange for a bus to cross the LIRR back and forth twice within a few minutes.
There have probably been many other construction reroutes that became permanant due to popular demand.
Thanks, so it was community pressure that kept the B52 on Gates in both directions. Thanks to all those who replied......
B52#5074Mike
While riding 9356 last week on the Q46, I noticed behind the driver was an Articulated Bus Bookmark. I'd like to know where I can get 1 of these?
Q46#9371Gary
Well I got mines by going to my aunts bus depot (126th Street), SO I suggest you go to your local depot and see if they have any!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Go to 370 Jay. They have plenty on the front desk.
Go to 370 Jay. They have plenty on the front desk.
Call up 1-888-692-8287 and ask for one.
At Queens Blvd and 64 St, I've noticed a FDNY Bus. It's been there everyday. Was this a former NYCTA Bus? If it was, what nuumber was it? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.
Q60#5534Gary
I Believe that is ex-TA bus #1396.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Speaking of, I have a few twilight shots of an NYPD Highway Patrol GMC bus that I took a week or so ago. If I weren't so far behind with work...
I'll get it online as soon as I can. It only took me 4 weeks to get my scrap photos up, right?
-Hank :)
Does anyone have a shot of Liberty Lines MC9 #2041 the bus that Madonna rode in "Despratley Seeking Susan"
One of my all time fav bus sequences in a movie as it captures riding the typicall road coach from here to there so accuratley at least for me.
If so please email me at RTS21-0350@webtv.net
thanks
What on earth did the E7 bus do??? It ran up until the early 90s according to my old schedules.
I found an old WMATA MD/DC system map from 1982 and it listed the E7 as operating from Western and Oregon (knollwood) to Tenley Circle. Its always possible that towards the early 90's it only ran to Friendship Heights, but this is what I could find. Also, according to the map, it ran just during peak hours.
Looking at this map makes me realize that I also miss a lot of the old WMATA routes now operated by Ride On. For example the 1 and 11 used to be WMATA route J4 and J6, and the 35 was part of the C2 that ran from Montgomery Mall to Beltway Plaza. Such is life in the world of privatization.
I never knew about J4 and J6. My J4 is from Bethesda to Silver Spring with no stops and if you take it, you can get on the bus for free and reenter the MetroRail on the other side for free.
One more question which I meant to ask earlier. What did the D3 and D9 do?
The E7 route was likely dropped because of its redundancy. The M4 runs from Pinehurst Circle, through Tenley Circle, to Sibley Hospital. The E6 runs from Knollwood, through Pinehurst Circle, to Friendship Heights. Pinehurst, on Western Ave NW, is the E6/M4 transfer point, and running a direct bus between Knollwood and Tenleytown was really superfluous, especially in the recent era of 10-cent and, later, free bus-to-bus transfers.
Chris
That's interesting about the J4 from Bethesda to Silver Spring. I had never heard of that one. The J4 and J6 that I have here was most likely changed to Ride On routes after the Red Line was extended from Van Ness to Grosvnor.
Let's see, the D3 ran during the AM and PM peak from Sangamore Rd. to Archives, AM inbound and PM outbound and the D9 ran from Sibley Hospital to Farragut Square, also AM in and PM out.
This map is bringing back a lot of memories and has a lot of interesting routes that WMATA ran in the early 80's. If anyone has questions, feel free to ask. There is a strange route on here, T1, that ran from Friendship Heights to the Congressional Country Club 6 days a week. Who would have thought that they would allow buses on their property.
Wow I wonder who actually rode that the T1 to Congression CC. Maybe the caddies becuase I'd bet that the members would never admit to riding public transit.
Wayne
I was thinking the same thing. I can't imagine the members wanting to put up with a bus idling outside of their precious club. I wonder what type of security there was to prevent "outsiders" from joyriding into the CC?
I'm sure they do have security there. Interesting enough - when I was still learing my way around the DC area I accidentally turned into Congressional CC. I immediately knew I was somewhere that I didn't "belong" and started to make a U-turn - but the two lane access road has wood fences on both sides making it pretty tight for even my agile Honda.
Wayne
Ride On began in 1975 with just a few routes that mainly operated as neighborhood circulators. As more and more metro stations opened and the subsidies needed to pay for both rail and bus service increased, they looked into expanding Ride On, which was a lot cheaper to operate and began to take over WMATA runs, such as the T2, L8 and Z2 on weekends and other Bethesda/Rockville runs operated by WMATA. The T6 was split into two Ride On routes, 46 and 42 and the old C8 that ran from Montgomery Mall to Aspen Hill was changed to the RO 26. I'm sure they have ideas to take over more, which is why I think there are larger buses showing up in their fleet, not to mention to be able to handle the general increases in passengers they are seeing. Should we dare to dream that we may one day see a Ride On artic?
That would be amazing to see an articulated Ride-On bus. I was surprised to learn that they even had 40ft buses. The reason why they got them, though,(at least I think so) is to operate them on some of the most popular routes, like rt 17 and rt 20. At least, that is where I usually see them. Speaking of taking over routes, Route 10 used to be metro-bus route C6, so I guess you may be right in that they are taking over more WMATA routes. Does anyone know what the first buses for Ride-On were?
I can't remember what the manufacture of the first Ride On buses were, but I remember that they were blue with a couple white horizontal stripes, and they reminded me of small school buses. They were no bigger than 30 ft. Then in the late 70's they purchased the TMC 30 footers with the one hinged front door. Those were the noisiest buses I had ever heard. I was in the second grade when the TMC's came out and I remember we went on a field trip on a Ride On bus and was disappointed that we had to ride the old school bus type buses.
You're right that some of those lines, such as the 17, 20 and other Silver Spring routes were getting really crowded and needed something bigger than a 30 ft. bus. I forgot about the 10 having been the C6 at one time. The Y4 and Y6 were also eliminated in favor of Ride On routes as well.
When did the Orion Is enter the picture? Those have been around a good long time.
Chris
It depends which Orion Is you mean. The old ones that are run in the Rockville area are 1985 models, i think. The newer ones are 1991 models, and the ones with the big destination sign are 1992 models.
When did the Orion Is enter the picture? Those have been around a good long time.
Speaking of 40-foot Ride-Ons, I was going north on I-270 earlier this evening and a Ride-On Orion V entered the highway, merged across three lanes of traffic and stayed put in the HOV lane. By this time of night, the HOV restrictions were no longer in effect and the bus was slowing traffic down considerably -- I had to pass it on the right. I realize that letting buses use HOV lanes speeds things up and makes for a good "try-transit" incentive, but it sure does slow things down for motorists.
On an unrelated note, I also saw WMATA buses 4404 and 4407 (not-in-service SmartMover buses) and Ride-On 30' Flxible #5166 in-service (one of the former WMATA units), plus tons of other buses apparently returning to their yards, from the Rockville Pike mcDonald's near Twinbrook Metro. I unwittingly discovered that it's a good bus-spotting perch, at least in the evening.
Chris
Chris
I think the Orion I's (5200 series) with the rear window, came around 1980 and the ones with the electronic signs (5500s), not to be confused with the Orion V's that are in the 5500's as well, came around 1990.
Were you at the McDonald's at Rockville Pike and Marinelli? That is a perfect place to do bus watching as the entrance to the Montgomery Lot is right past the mini golf course next to the White Flint Station. A lot of bus drivers also frequent that McDonald's, so you may bump into one once in awhile.
I think that's the one -- it's across the Pike from that tall office building that's between White Flint Mall and White Flint Metro. I couldn't see the street name in the dark -- I'd stopped for supper -- but it was probably Marinelli. You're right, it's an awesome place to bus-watch!
Chris
Yeah, that is a great place to watch. My parents live in the apartments right behind the McDonald's and I can see a lot of the buses going by from their balcony. I have a pretty decent view from my balcony in Arlington too. There are about 30 routes that go through Ballston and a bunch come down North Randolph Street by my place. Late at night, I can hear them rumble by. I usually try to guess what kind of bus it is too, but don't get up to look.
Well, it was probably not unlike the E6, which goes into the private Knollwood retirement community ... you can ride the bus up the drive and through the grounds, but to get into the buildings, you need ID.
Chris
The 1 was around for like a decade now. I thought it was always in existence. When did Ride On start, anyway?
Ride-On is Metro's junior by only two years; it was established in 1975. I'm not aware of the rationale for handing over WMATA routes to Ride-On in the late '80s; perhaps a more informed BusTalker will elucidate.
Chris
Disregard that last post; I hadn't finished reading through the afternoon's messages when I posted it. 1C's excellent clarification and history of Ride-On can be found here.
Chris
Thanks! Fairfax County and Alexandria in VA are doing the same thing. They are choosing their own services ang little by little straying away from Metro. Its too bad because its important to have a regional bus system, along with some county service to help. I don't think the master plan was to have the counties take over the way that they have done. I've heard rumblings that WMATA will bid on the Reston service they lost several years ago to Fairfax Connector. At that time, Arlington and Alexandria basically were begging Farifax County to stick with Metro so that the subsidies wouldn't be severely affected, but they ignored their pleas and instead decided to spend millions of dollars on new buses and a new garage.
You are probably right with Congressional having some sort of security inside the buildings. Hopefully, NASA in Greenbelt and Andrews AFB have tight security when the buses come in as well. I think at Andrews the buses terminate right at the main gate.
At Bolling AFB - WMATA buses operate onto the base. I asked my friend who is in the AF and used to work at Bolling about the buses. My point was that while all vehicles must stop (except those with stickers of course) what's to stop an unauthorized person from getting on base by riding the bus. My friend told me that he thinks the military police will board the bus and verify that any passengers are authorized to enter the base.
Wayne
They probably do and escort the buses around. It would make sense.At Fort Myer, in Arlington, the MP just wave the buses through, so technically, anyone can get off if they wanted, but there isn't much there. I think they mainly handle Arlington Cemetery. Once in a great while, they'll step on to take a peek at who's on and then get off, or sometimes they'll ride on it as it circles the facilities.
In VA beach, I'm not sure if this bus does it anymore, but as it traveled through the Naval base, all civilians were told to get off the bus as it went through the base and were allowed to reboard on its way out. Of course, the bus was packed and instead of having my seat back, I had to stand, but hey, they are protecting the country, so they deserve a seat.
I think that is a badly planned bus route then. But do they do something like that at the pentagon, where there is a huge metro-bus terminal?
The Pentagon, ironically, allows anyone and everyone to ride up to the terminal since the subway station is right there. There is a checkpoint to actually get inside the building itself. The current bus terminal is going to be moved several hundred feet away, though, because for some reason the Defense Department is worrired of a terrorist attack. How many years has this thing been there and now they are worried? I mean the Pentagon Station was being built during the Vietnam War and was probably planned during the Korean War If nothing happened then or during the 80's when terrorism was bad, why now? In that case, the Pentagon station should never have been built and instead used Pentagon City as the main station.
You know something... I wouldn't be suprised if someone suggests closing the Pentagon Station if things (or Paranoia) got really bad.
Wayne
The routes are planned like that to provide service to people travelling to/from the base. I guess the buses could pickup/drop at the gate, but these bases are pretty big and than can be a long walk to/from the gate. At the Pentagon it's not necessary for the MP to board/check buses because they do not go into any restricted areas.
Wayne
To Hank Eisenstein,
In you previous bustalk messege, you indicated on how many of the 100 MCI buses were going to both Yukon & Ulmer Park depots & the 4 possible new South Shore express buses that the Governor hasn't sign the express bus bill.
If you have this infomation, please post it on bustalk.
Geez! How many times do we have to say, don't start new threads on old subjects! And how many times do we have to say, DON'T ADDRESS THREADS TO INDIVIDUALS!!!!!
David
No I didn't.
-Hank
If you're going to keep doing this, use e-mail.
4042: Saw her on Livonia and Snediker deadheading to ENY depot. This is bus is still in its original MTA scheme. I guess it do not make sense to repaint a soon to be scrap bus.
8565: Saw her on the B78 at Church and Ralph Avs. It have the Flatbush depot logo but no Quality Control sticker on the drivers side of the bus. (Rear)
B78#8565Mike
B82#4042Mike
Boy did I get a shock today when 5419 pulled up on my Bx36, Was a very interesting ride with those mutiple turns! We got to West Farms Square and there was two Artics on the Bx9 (1097 and 5422). Also observed Seven other artics on the Bx36 and 2 others on the Bx9.
That was like WHOA!
Trevor Logan
I wonder if those artics crawl up that hill on Kingsbridge Avenue like the older RTS buses do.
Here is the one I rode on the Bx36:
And here is the one I saw on the Bx9:
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Links are unavailable-try again!!!
BX12#5284Gary
Here is the one I rode on the Bx36:
And here is the one I saw on the Bx9:
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Got a broken link sign on the second one.
My bad! Didn't see the correction parts! Nice pics!
BX5#5355Gary
It would be interesting to see how they'd do on that hill. Also if the Bx9 still layed over on Tremont Ave near 177th St-Devoe Ave it would be pretty tight for the D60's to make that tight right turn from Tremont Ave onto Boston Road. I remember watching B/O's fight the manual steering on new look buses (when it was the Bx20) while making that turn.
Wayne
The Bx9 now terminates under the el at Boston Road & Tremont Avenue, then makes a left onto Tremont Avenue, lays over & picks up passengers (sharing a stop with the Q44), the hops in the left lane, Makes a left onto Devoe Avenue, Then another left on to 180th Street, then continues regular route.....Right on Southern Boulevard so on and so on. And yes it still makes that U-turn at 262nd Street, I witnessed it today and it did a wonderful job of it!
And sorry for the broken link, I changed the file name on the server tonight--my bad, Here is the Bx9 photo:
Trevor Logan
You apologize for a broken link in a post with a broken link? Fabulous!
-Hank :)
Didn't you see the correction post. DUH!
Trevor Logan
My view for bustalk is set to chonological. It was further up, and I didn't get to it yet. And since it wasn't a reply to the post with the error, I didn't get to see it immediately.
Sounds like the stick up your ass has a stick up its ass. :)
-Hank
Ok you know what, I don't care if you're joking or not, There is no need for such a comment "Sounds like the stick up your ass has a stick up its ass," and screw the smiley face. Did not find it funny, cute, nor histerical.
I can see me being calm and nice is slowly going out the window.
Trevor Logan
Slowly?
It was either you or Pigs who had previously mad a comment about someone with a stick up their ass having a stick up it's ass. I made (what I thought was) a humorous comment about a post apologizing for a broken link that itself contained a broken link. Your reply came off like you were more arrogant than Pigs. I simply followed up with the stick.
-Hank
I have not seen nor made a post about a stick being in someones ass, it was probably Pigs! So that only shows that you need to go back and see who made the post, and DIRECT IT TO THEM!
Trevor Logan
The Bx9 now terminates under the el at Boston Road & Tremont Avenue, then makes a left onto Tremont Avenue, lays over & picks up passengers (sharing a stop with the Q44), the hops in the left lane, Makes a left onto Devoe Avenue, Then another left on to 180th Street, then continues regular route.....Right on Southern Boulevard so on and so on. And yes it still makes that U-turn at 262nd Street, I witnessed it today and it did a wonderful job of it!
And sorry for the broken link, I changed the file name on the server tonight--my bad, Here is the Bx9 photo:
Trevor Logan
So the 9 is now using artics? How many do they have running on the 9, because everyday when I walk by Fordham Plaza and see the 9, it's never an artic.
Clark Palicka
CEO TrAnSiTiNfO
http://www.nyctransitinfo.com
The day I saw the Artics on the 9, there was 4 of them I counted off!
Trevor
Here is NJ Transit's New MCI 102-D3 (Soon to be dubbed D4000) Commuter Cruiser Coach:
Trevor Logan
So, it looks like NJT has modified its blue-purple-orange diagonal line logo. Looks nice! I wonder when it will be seen in Penn Station (NYC).
saw this bus on sunday on turnpike. it looks like some type of mci. anyone know more.
Yes, those are the new MCI G4100 (G3) Coaches, Academy and Greyhound are the first two companys to have major orders!
Trevor Logan
Could you put up a pic or two, better than the ones on the site?
I don't have any G3 pics up yet! I took some that I seen of 9918 but I have developed nor scanned them yet! So I don't know what you are talking about!
Trevor Logan
Trevor you do have some G-series pics, I think it's in the Greyhound section it's like 3 or 4 of #3200, it's labeled as an MCI 102-G3 though.
Peace,
Big D
Right I do, from a contributor...Eddie Anthony! Here are a few shots:
Trevor Logan
When I said better than the ones on the site, I meant the MCI site, and is greyhound gonna use these in schedules or charter trips? And pass. capacity?
The Greyhound ones are already in service, One of them comes to the NYC area once a week.
Trevor Logan
The following 27 (out of 190) New Flyer C40LF buses have not yet entered service, according to the official NYCT bus assignment list:
866
922, 927, 928
938
940, 941, 945
954, 955, 959
961, 966, 967, 968
973, 974, 975, 978, 979
983, 984, 985, 986, 987, 988, 989
David
That sound right. I still have not seen any of these yet. I keep a list of what is in and they are not in.
Robert
The rest are still at Atlantic Diesel on Long Island. I pass it everyday and see them there.
The 170 NYCT MCI MC102DLW3 buses that will be delivered shortly will be numbered 2705-2874. Keep in mind that the 1982 RTS order went up to 2704.
David
I actually joined Bus Talk before but I was keeping quiet. I just want to say I saw in Transitalk's roster that the numbers would go to 2309. Help me clear this.
My information is from the NYC Transit Department of Buses and was given to me today. I don't know where Transitalk's information came from, but even if it came from the Department of Buses, it's been superseded.
David
Numbering for the MCI order will be:
2705-2874.
I suppose DOB did not want to duplicate the 1981 RTS numbers, some of which are still on the property (eg. RTS 2270 is at Crosstown). Some of the 1981's are still in service, as is the case with the 7000/7500 "remans". The highest numbered 1982 RTS was 2704, and the numbered picked up again at 3001 for the 1983 order (bus 3000 was a 1974 GMC S8H-5308A operated by the Transit police). Numbers 2705-2999 were available for use.
So there you have it, and there it is!
Mark
I hate the number series 28xx and 29xx, not just because they are the series the newest batch of D40LF's which happen to be killing off the RTS are sorted in, but they are asthetically ugly and they sound ugly. 2848 isn't as streamlined as 2148, it looks better to. Ditto for 1927 and 2827.. I kno whtis is nitpicking but really, I hate that series, 49xx is pretty bad too.
Thanks for the info.....But it's no longer the 102-DLW3SS Cruiser, it's now the MCI D4500 Commuter Coach
Trevor Logan
Thanks...I had forgotten the new model designation. BTW, the Department of Buses lists them as "OTR" -- "Over The Road."
David
.....in service today on the Q74(run 4 1st half). That horrible cummins engine still murmuring.
speaking of run 4 on the 74 - thats a bingo run if i ever saw one. it's about a 13 1/2 spread. it's a good bet its the highest paying run in casey
Rode 295 on the 15 the other morning. The engine sounds horrible. On brake the whole bus vibrates!
So 295,296,297 and 300 are in service. That leaves 299 out (so far) I guess the bus I see from the #7 train that sits in Stengel Yard #2 is 285 (the top of the bus only has the 2 and the 5 on the roof.
So the Cummins buses are in service. Why haven't they gotten new engines yet?
I think I walked by 297 this evening waiting at the Q12 bus stop. A few minutes earlier I heard a loud "Not in service" bus going east on Roosevelt avenue, I think it was 297. Sounds similar from the outside to a 6V-92 but louder. I heard alot of rumbling when I walked past 297 waiting at the Q12 bus stop.
"Cummins, our engines make your head ache!"
I have used the Port Authority bus terminal at 42nd street for NJT transit buses to NJ. How is the GWB bus terminal?
Is it as clean, safe, and busy? I notice that there's a bus that's only 30 minutes from there to the Garden State mall. But isn't it a long hike from the 175th street IND to the GWB bus terminal?
Its a nice Terminal, they are reconstructed it as we speak!
The bus you are referring to is our 171 New York-Paterson & 175 New York-Ridgewood Buses. The 171 takes approximately 24 minutes from GWB to Garden State Plaza and the 175 takes 35 minutes. Equipment used on the two lines ranges from a MCI 9A Cruiser to a Flxible Metro-B to a Flxible Metro-D or a NovaBUS RTS-06.
And no it isn't a long hike because they provide a small tube from the subway station to the terminal. Total walk time is like 3 miuntes!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Ooooooohhh, aren't you smart!!!
Clark Palicka
CEO TrAnSiTiNfO
http://www.nyctransitinfo.com
3 minutes? My L-2/3 6th to 7th ave. walk only takes one minute! And from 175th-178th is shorter than 6th-7th.
It's up hill, Have you been in that tunnel?!?!?!!, I power walk and it taks me 3 minutes! That's my home station!
Trevor
Well I did check out the GWB bus terminal. That ramp from the 175th street station is very uphill. While the station was clean, it paled in comparison to 42nd street. It was not too busy either.
The NJ ticket window is closed during mid-days. The 171 does run along route 4 but DOES NOT stop at Garden State Plaza. Only the 175 goes there according to the schedules, and that's almost a 40 minute ride.
Also a bum was bothering people (I did not see this at 42nd street).
To go to the mall it don't pay to use GWB, besides the PA Bus terminal is alot more happening and uplifting.
The 171 does go there, it's just not on the schedule, believe me, the 171 is the bus I take to Garden State Plaza because it's so fast!
I don't know, I can't see sitting on a bus from the PABT for 35-40 minutes on the 163 bus.
Trevor Logan
Well I guess it depends on where you are coming from. To get to the GWB, I have to take the A from 34th street. Even though the A is my favorite train, on middays and weekends you have to wait at least 10 minutes for it.
It is a decent ride on the A up CPW, but it takes about 20 minutes to GWB with the uphill walk into the bus terminal.
So if it takes 20 minutes to get to GWB, then about a 25 minute on the 171, that's almost as long as the 163.
The 163 is a long trip though, but I do like the ride with the exception of Union City, where the traffic lights are so annoying.
But otherwise I like the 163, it's trip through the Meadowlands and Hasbrouck Heights are quite scenic.
Also more people come into and out of the mall via route 4, where there could be more traffic vs. the back way the 163 goes.
So it's almost a 50 minute ride, but that's still shorter than the N21 trip to Flushing. And the NJT bus is alot more comfortable.
Plus I know a relative (my cousin) who used to live in Rockland county and took Red and Tan lines to the 42nd street terminal, and she never used the GWB terminal. My impression is most people don't either.
However she did say that Red and Tan lines weren't too great. Their buses look pretty nice to me. She sure don't know what bad buses are! Tell her to try LI Bus!!! :-o
Didn't know it was uphill.
Excusseeeee me!
Metro is really beginning to suck right now. I've been dealing with their boring and unchanging routes for 2 years now. I'd already gone everywhere there was to go on Metro Houston in 1997 so by '98 there was nothing left. I was riding for the sheer joy of the equipment.
Well, 1999 rolled around and the Flxibles were on life support, ditto for the Eagles. They were retired in Oct. '99. It was okay, I still had the RTS buses, the sole bright spot in sea of desolation and boxes on wheels. Well it's a year later and between 40 and 75 RTS buses are sitting in McCarty Street Storage with their smart stripes covered in that ugly white primer, cannabalized daily and their road numbers pulled off. The only identification is a small hand-written road number on the windshield. Many are literally shells of their former selves. I now only have memories of their past glories and the dwindling fleet of maybe 130 that are left, most being buried.
As I looked at the buses at the yard, I felt as if a part of me was getting auctioned as well. I had grown to know some of these buses by sounds, marks, scrapes, everything. Hell, I named some of them. RTS 2150 (which is lucky enough to find regular work) is Jason Jr. Now they sit with a New Look that's been there since the early 80's (it still works as well).
I hate Metro, I hate 2800-2949, I hate those ugly Ikarus buses that are taking over the RTS lines, and I hate those stupid, fat Neoplans! Damn you Metro, why can't you be like NYC, rebuild, reuse, recycle! the only good things in the fleet are the 40xx and 41xx flyers, the Vikings, and the remaing RTS bueses, but that goes without saying.
The end is near my friends. By January they will be gone. I'll probably be done with bus riding for the hell of it then as well. It'll no longer be fun. Be thankful my friends, you all have acess to New Looks, Flxibles, Eagles, and a rare slopeback. Me, I just have high-tech shoeboxes. Don't take the RTS for granted, one day you'll be longing for one just like Fishbowls. Yes, that includes lady 1746 and 1767. Sorry, I had to throw those two in, 1746 becuase it's controversial and 1767 because the number rolls off the tongue and looks nice on paper.
I know, I'm different, but aren't we all?
--RTS 2150, making the world a better place, until January, maybe sooner.
Could it be that with the artics landing on these other routes that there is now a shortage on other lines? Saw RTS #8831 heading n/b on the G.C., Bx2 service, last evening around 5'o'clock. Interesting to see a "vintage" bus on the Concourse again. (Chuckle).
Joe C.
Could be BUT not for long with still about 40 more Articulateds that are in mid-delivery. All slated for the bronx. Manhattan will not see another Artic order until the 140 Option comes next year which will be buses #5510-5649, 126th Street Depot will recieve Buses #1095-1109 from Kingsbridge Depot plus #5510-5580 of the new order. #5581-5649 will go to Quill Depot.
Also there is plans to order another 300+ artics for Brooklyn/Queens! But don't be surprised if that changes and some go elsewhere!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Curiously, who's the largest operator of articulated buses in ther US? Seattle Metro is an educated guess.
-Hank
I was just looking through Metro Magazines Top 100 transit bus fleets and you are right that Seattle is the largest with 510 artics. If NYC gets all these new ones, though, they will be the largest. The magazine says NYCT has 260 as of now.
That's wrong, the TA is now proud owners of 370 Articulateds!
Trevor Logan
When I saw 5451 at the Busfest, I was surprised to see the nice upholstry on the walls. Considering the rough use those buses are going to get, I wonder how long it will last.
Metro Magazine needs an addendum to update their vehicle inventory list. Seattle will no longer be the King of the artics.
no it will be a tie. nyct artics 1000-1109 and 5250-5649 totals 510.
Ya sure? I got 508.
110 plus 400 equal 510.
Ah. My mistake.
According to a CTA news release, Chicago acquired about 70 Man articsfrom Seattle.
In that case, which are going to 126 St. and how soon in 200l?
Article was in today's business section in the Washington Post:
An Omnibus Proposal
By Jackie Spinner
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, October 4, 2000; Page E01
District officials and business leaders are lining up behind a proposed downtown transit system that would use trolley-style buses to shuttle tourists and office workers on giant loops through the center of the city.
The Downtown D.C. Business Improvement District (BID), a business-financed economic development group, has been working for two years on the new system, which it hopes will be in place around the time the new Washington Convention Center opens in 2003.
BID wants to use the shuttle system to make downtown more accessible and to move tourists from the Mall to the city's growing commercial district around MCI Center.
"The idea makes a lot of sense," said D.C. Council member Jack Evans (D-Ward 2). "Metro is great, but it doesn't go everywhere. . . . The idea is to get people coming to visit monumental Washington to visit other parts of the city."
A number of critical details still have to be worked out, though, including who will operate the system and who will pay the estimated $7.5 million upfront costs and $5.4 annual operating costs.
Officials also will have to find a way to placate private tour operators who see the system as competition.
For now, BID is working with the U.S. Department of Transportation, the U.S. General Services Administration, the National Capital Planning Commission, the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority and Mayor Anthony A. Williams (D) to figure out how to make the proposal a reality.
BID and District officials hope to persuade Congress to fund the start-up costs.
BID is projecting that the shuttle system would carry about 3 million riders a year. Although the majority of the projected daily ridership would be tourists--6,402 a day from the Mall--one-third would be downtown workers and visitors to the new Washington Convention Center, according to BID's proposal, which is part of a downtown development plan being prepared for the mayor by a task force of private interests and government officials.
Richard Bradley, executive director of BID, said the shuttles would supplement Metrorail.
"Metro will do its job, which is to bring people in the city," he said. "Metro's the spine. We're going to be the arms and the legs."
The north-south route of the new bus system would run through the heart of downtown, connecting the National Air and Space Museum, the FBI Building, the National Gallery of Art, MCI Center and the new convention center under construction at Mount Vernon Square.
The east-west route would serve Union Station, the Capitol, Chinatown, the old convention center, the White House and the Mall. A future third route to Georgetown is proposed.
BID estimates it would need 25 vehicles to operate the new system. Each vehicle--buses modified with low floors and large windows--would operate seven days a week from 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. under the current proposal. The fare in a study conducted for BID was 25 cents.
Other cities use similar systems to market their downtowns.
Dallas, for example, has operated a fleet of trolley-style vehicles in its downtown since August 1998. Riding the trolley costs 50 cents. It carries passengers between the convention center, hotels and the original downtown Neiman-Marcus department store. The downtown route carries an average of 350 passengers a day, according to Dallas Area Rapid Transit.
Timothy Newby, assistant vice president of service planning and scheduling for DART, said officials found that visitors didn't want to use the regular bus system.
"People were hesitant about getting on the buses because people weren't sure where it would take them," he said.
Because the shuttles in Dallas go in a circle, like the ones being proposed in Washington, it's tough for riders to get lost--they just end up where they started.
Philadelphia has had similar success with its PHLASH bus, which carries riders along a nine-mile route between Old City Philadelphia and the Museum of Art.
The six-year-old system has had increases in both ridership and revenue since its inception. In fiscal 2000, PHLASH carried 190,236 riders and collected $272,700 in revenue.
"It's been a major component of our ongoing and aggressive tourism and marketing efforts," said Christopher Zearfoss, Philadelphia's acting deputy mayor for transportation. "It's a way to encourage people who are in Philadelphia for business or a convention to get out and see the sites, to shop and to go sample our restaurants."
A downtown D.C. shuttle system is gaining support in the private sector, particularly among commercial developers and retailers who want to see more people and fewer cars downtown.
"If we don't deal with sprawl and crawl and congestion right now, it will haunt us and it will impede the office market," said Andrew J. Genova, managing director of real estate brokerage Trammell Crow Co.
Under BID's proposal, the system could be operated by Metro, a third party under contract to Metro or a private party under contract to the D.C. Department of Public Works.
But nobody has offered yet to pay for the service.
Bradley said BID will try to persuade Congress to help fund the system and thus reduce the number of federal shuttles taxpayers pay for.
A study for the House Transportation Committee's subcommittee on oversight, investigations and emergency management found that 30 federal departments and agencies currently operate 94 shuttle bus routes at a cost of more than $15 million. The subcommittee found that many of those routes overlap.
At a hearing before the subcommittee earlier this month, G. Martin Wagner, associate administrator of government-wide policy for the General Services Administration, testified that BID's proposed shuttle system could help consolidate the federal shuttles.
Wagner recommended that the federal government work with District leaders to determine whether the system would work.
City leaders also are trying to resolve a potential conflict with the National Park Service, which withdrew its support last week from a memorandum of agreement that would bring a coalition together to address transit issues.
The Park Service has a franchise agreement with D.C.-based Tourmobile Inc. to operate an interpretive shuttle service on the Mall and between national park sites around the District.
The Park Service is reviewing that agreement to determine whether it would prohibit another shuttle service from picking up and dropping off passengers on the Mall.
Tom Mack, Tourmobile's owner, did not return telephone calls seeking comment.
Earle Kittleman, spokesman for the National Park Service, said the agency will begin this month to examine its own transit system. It also will look at BID's proposal.
"It gives the Park Service a chance to reiterate the shared objectives we have with the city in serving the visitors, including making the city more livable," Kittleman said.
İ 2000 The Washington Post Company
These are the things that LOOK like a trolley, but have rubber tires & use a diesel engine for motive power ... yuck !
Mr t__:^)
Can't use the real thing, DC still prohibits overhead wires in the "Old City" part of DC, so back to conduit it would go. (rats)
I heard that within the next 6 mouths all buses that have steps will be living JG. All the RTS's will be split up to other depot and the Orions will go to Command to replace there out RTS's on the B100.
I do not know what type of low flours will replace these buses. Maybe the new modle New Flyer or the Orions 7 or that cournt New Flyers.
Robert.
P.S. I am starting train Opt. training on Monday 10/9, so wish me luck.
Why would the TA send the Orions to Command? Im sure other Orion TA depots or any other depots could use them as well.
B65#589Mike
Actually, that is not correct. These Orions are the Orion V CNG's that can only be used at JG. It would make sense to sell them to Command and they would probably be repowered to Series 50G's to blend in with the rest of the fleet.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
I have seen the Orion CNG's at Gleason. They sound like they use the Cummins L10G engine. That could be a reason why the TA wants to get rid of them.
Good luck on your new promotion. It always feels good to know that there is another person behind me. :)
5 1/2 months B division training (3 mos.A div.) with Sat/Sun/Hol off and 8-4 hours ain't too bad. Just don't expect your seniority to go up like it can in surface. One thing, when you go on yard posting and then road posting, you post all yards/lines and you work all 3 tours. Just letting you know in advance.
P.S. Hope they don't shove you into the IRT. If they do, stick it out for a little while and then transfer over.
How long it training. I been telling my wife that I think it is 4 mounths. I also would stick it out in the IRT if they put me there, but I also will be in the top of the class becouse I was put out on retricked work for my first class.
How long are you a Train Opt.?
Also we both might start to move up farster becouse of the new open test. They will start hiring soon. I was told that this is the last or next to last promation class going into training.
Robert
The chances are good you wil have a choice of divisions to choose from when the class starts. The new test has no bearing on how you move up in seniority. Those people will be behind you in seniority. The training in the B division is 90 working days, 75 in the A division. The movement in terms of seniority is slower in the T/O title than in surface as zman179 indicated. It usually takes 7-8 years to get a slice of the weekend off on the p.m tour. It usually takes 9 years to get the entire weekend off. On the a.m.tour, it takes about 9-10 yrs to get a slice of the weekend, and 11-12 yrs to get the entire weekend off. I'll have 7 yrs as a T/O in February. I'm less than 100 slots from getting a slice of the weekend off. I should have it next spring. Take this advice: choose the division according to where you live. In other words, if you live in the Bronx, pick the IRT since that is where most of the jobs come out of over there. If you live in the other boroughs or on Long Island, choose the IND/BMT. At first, you'll bounce around a lot. Later on, while you're stil road extra, they try to keep you close to home, at least in the same borough.
Because you will be in the top of the class due to your restricted duty, if a division preference is given then you will be a shoo in to pick what you want. However, sometimes they take the entire class and place them into the division that needs them most. The November 1997 class that I was in had a division preference(I was #3 in the class as I was accidentally passed up for the prior class), the T/O class after me in December all got placed into the A division as was my entire conductor's class in November 1993. You will find out right after you get to PS 248 whether a preference will be given or not.
Having been a T/O for 3 years, picking weekends off are not an option for me so I work VR to get my weekends off. As Mike said, the training is 90 working days in the B(IND/BMT) which is around 5 1/2 months. 75 working days for the A division(IRT) sounds like a bit too much, a couple of T/O's that I know said that they were in class for 3 1/2 months but if you go there, you'll find out for yourself. I will NEVER work the A division again so I won't be able to tell you whether it is or not.(Take the word never and put it in huge capital letters, underline it, highlight it and surround it in blinking neon).
Lately when you are assigned to extra extra service after training, the crew office has actually been very good as far as giving you assignments close to home. I was XX for 18 months and about 85% of my assignments were in Queens where I live and my classmates received similar treatment. You will bounce around but it's not even close to what they used to do in years past. Before, if you got a job close to home, it was an error on the crew office's part.
You'll find that it is a much easier job than B/O. No traffic, no fares and best of all, no direct interaction with the public. It's just you, the train and the signals(most of the time anyway). I was a conductor for 4 years and I can confidently say that the T/O's job is much easier than the C/R's job. And the T/O gets paid more!
Good luck on Monday and let me know where they placed you and what TSS you received as a teacher.
There's definitely less stress as a T/O than as a C/R. You got lucky being XX for only 18 months. I was XX for 3 yrs. There was slow movement from 1994-97 because of very few retirements and promotions. In addition, funding from the state was substantially cut in 1995. This resulted in close to 100 jobs cut during one pick that year.
Thank every one. I have to goto 80 Westend Ave. the thrird flour on Monday. I am look fourd not it be in direct contect with the people. Driving dose not brother. If I am late I get paid time 1/2 or get turned around on line.
Also is the traning all weekend off or do they put you to mid week off after the main training.
Robert
You'll have weekends off in training. I've noticed in the past several weeks that school car(training class) has been conducted on the p.m. tour. This is something new. Traditionally, school car has always been on the a.m. tour. When you break in at the yards and terminals on switching jobs(our version of shifter),they conduct this on all three tours. The same applies to road break in as well. Just before you graduate, a representative from the crew office visits and explains their policies and what to expect. They'll ask you to submit a couple of tour preferences and RDO preferences. You'll know on Monday which division you're going to. You'll probably be assigned to 2TSSs who teach a group of about 10 people.
Robert when I did T/O training in 1992 it was weekdays 8am-3pm. I was a bus operator when I took the promo thought I would like the isolation from the people but I actually missed it.In my opinion T/O is an easier job, but much more dangerous. I went back to B/O after 11 months as a T/O. and never looked back. Good luck and if you decide to go back do it while still in training. Once on the road you are valuable to them and they are slow with the paper work. Again good luck. Evan
Evan. I think I know you for Ulmer Park. You told me that they are slow after training. The thing that bother me the mostis walking the Ell Tracks. I am not scard of hights be being so close to the edge.
Robert
Forget the edge, worry about the ground that you walk on. The new yellow walkways are very sturdy but just having the illusion of seeing the street under your feet can give you a little case of vertigo(I know that it happens to me). The old wooden boards on the els are different. Very scary stuff, but it's part of the job.
Hint of advice: When walking the structure, look straight ahead instead of down and NEVER NEVER step on anything on the elevated structure that has a painted X on it. X=could collapse under weight/unsafe.
You guys still have wooden catwalks? Even on the Market Street El portion in Philly have steel catwalks. I would never walk on a wooden catwalk.
Wooden catwalks still exist but are slowly being replaced by fiberglass catwalks. Catwalks in general are very scary things to walk on.
P.S. Please post any new responses on this subject in subtalk. Thanx.
Why is the B division nessecairly better?
I do feel that it is a much better division to work. Of course that's only my opinion.
I mean, why? Pay, equipment...?
The constant overcrowding on the 1 and 6, the PM dispatcher on the 6 at Pelham Bay Pk treating you like dirt, the shoddy redbird equipment, the 24 hour rush hour on the 7, the walk on the el to Livonia Yard to get a put-in(many workers have been robbed by hoodlums on the street pointing a gun at them in the air telling them to drop their wallet to the street below), the homeless and lack of good paying jobs on the 1, the "politics" on the 3 at Lenox, if you're not in the "clique" then you will be worked like a dog. The frequent 25 minute lunches that I've had on all IRT lines due to heavy congestion.
Do I need to elaborate further?
I heard about that walk on the structure into Livonia Yard. One day, I was talking to a guy who worked the IRT at one time who had the pleasure of walking that structure into the yard. One day, some guys on the street got his attention pointing guns up at him. They said "Send it on down otherwise we'll end it on up". Needless to say, my man sent down a cash "donation" so that his skin could be saved....... Did you read this Dan? Is your job like this?
Ah. That sucks.
Are the narrow motorman's cabs in the Div A. trains narrower than the narrow cabs in the Div. B trains?
Yes. Noticeably. Your elbows can touch the sides while operating in an A division cab. You can't do that in a B division cab unless you have long arms.
The 31 Orion 05.501/CNG Buses (317, 581-610) will be remaining with the TA and at Jackie Gleason depot accompaning the 190 New Flyer C40LFs (800-989).
Command is receiving new Orion 05.501/CNG Buses of thier own, appromixmately 18 of them for service on the B100.
The 125 Orion 07.601/CNG Low Floor Buses order is for the Grand Re-Opening of the Coliseum Depot in the Bronx, No Orion VIIs will see service in Brooklyn.
TA looked at the New Flyer D40i Invero BUT will not commit to a order until at Hybrid or CNG Version is available and no more New Flyer C40LFs have been order nor is in the plans for ordering.
Trevor Logan
Actually, Command is not recieveing any new Orion V's. The NYCDOT did not take the option on the previous contract with Orion for additonal units therefore the 31 Orion V high floors going to Command would really help them since they are not getting new buses. This information was obtained by my collegue from an employee at Command Bus Company. The last 2 buses that came in were late because the DOT wanted to test the John Deer CNG engine, and they went to Queens Surface. It is a little premature to say if the TA is definitely "Not" or "Will" place orders for anything right now, remember the TA does not operate on a common sense principle, if they did we would not be having this conversation. All I can say is time will tell!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
404 and 437 from QS have the John Deer Engines in them. I was thinking since QS has gotten rid of some of their TMC'S (275-293), are there any more plans for more to leave their premises in the future? Don't be surprised if you see TMC's from QS at Command soon- I wouldn't. Reason- QS I think wants the majority of their fleet to be CNG based. Also, if Command does get the CNG Orions that some are expecting, then the MCI Classics will be transferred over to NYBS and LL from what I heard. And I don't see Command getting 581-610. At the same time, I've never seen an MTA Bus go to a DOT Company or vice versa. I would not be surprised if the rest of the 4700s went to FP to get rid of their 3900-4200 series and the 8500s going to QV because they have a lot of 3900 and 4100s to be replaced-try about 50 of them. I had 3933 today on the Q46 nad the bus sounded like she was huffing and puffing along. Sluggish and dirty and on top of that with black paint in the rear. It's time for these buses to go to bus heaven. I'd like to see the 8500s at QV but I doubt that will happen. Also 9359 was on the X68 today-all QV Buses have aluminum wheels-at least that's a +.... for now.
Q46#9359Gary
I would not be surprised about that, but then I would not make that a first choice for Command since they have an obligation to be more of a CNG fleet like Queens Surface. The Orion V CNG's are kind of orphans in a way. They are not standard like the other Orion V's on the property. The CNG's have ZF transimissions and Cummins L10G engines which no other Orion buses in the fleet have. With that in mind I could see the TA selling those buses off and getting more of a model that they have so that parts can be standardized and there would be some kind of uniformity amoungst components. As I mentioned earlier, I would bet that if Command were to get these Orions, They would do them just like 4932 and repower them with Detroit Diesel Series 50G's. New York City Transit and Cummins don't seem to have a very good relationship when it comes to Orion Buses, but The RTS's from Fresh Pond (9140-9149) with the Cummins M11E engines seem to do pretty well. Once again, time will tell and it should be interesting what happens in the next 6 months.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Last night I saw 9140 on the Q58 and she waws flying along the LIE.
If more RTS buses were coming in, then I'd say they should get the Cummins Engine and not the Orion. To be honest, I'm not a big fan of the Orion at all. I am a fan of the New Flyer Artic and the RTS. Even though they get a licking, they still keep on ticking. Just look at 1755. This bus looks like junk and her right side is downward-paint faded, old BX Style numbers and whatnot. And yet this bus is still out on the road- on the X63 everyday. I'll have a pic up of her on transitworld either next update or the one after. She should've been scrapped a long time ago but yet she's still going strong at Jamaica. She must run that good to still be in that depot.
X63#1755Gary
The reasoning as to why the TA and Cummins are not best friends is because of the poor support. The Cummins Onan facility up in the Zerega part of the Bronx does not provide great support. BUT if the TA sent thier Cummins equipment out to the Cummins Onan facility in Newark, NJ like they do sending their DDC equipment out to Lodi, then there would be no problem.
If NJT can have a problem free Cummins fleet, what is the TA's problem. TOTAL BULLISH!
Trevor Logan
You mean NJT uses Cummins engines????? In all their buses??
Hmmm, I always wondered why they shut off the A/C on hills!!!
Actually as a NJT bus shifter, I've never had to turn the A/C off when using a bus with a Cummins engine. I've had to do it with out Detroit Diesel Powered Units, But our Cummins Engines Kick Ass!
PRIME EXAMPLE:
I move Flxible Metro-D #3730 (powered with a Cummins C8.3) to the Newark Shops from Oradell for a new paint job, I hit 79 MPH with that bus on the Turnpike and it maintained 79 even on the uphill.
Then I brought Flxible Metro-B #1971 (powered with a DDC Series 50) to the Ironbound Depot from the Shops, TOP SPEED WAS 68 and it slowed down to 59 on a uphill.
SAD CASE, BAD DDC! GOOD CUMMINS!
Trevor
Damn, Trevor! Houston's RTS buses are lucky to even hit 55, the New Flyers can't hit 70 and the Eagles could do about 85 but they're gone. Man, Metro sucks. I can't wait till I come out to the NYC/NJ area. It's a bus fan's paradise.
Well I am mainly talking reliability. While NYCT#300 was noisy as hell, it was faster than the 6V-92 buses. I think I rode on an NJT Flxible with a Cummins engine. It shook like hell, but it was fast.
But reliability of Cummins engines is not as good as Detroit Diesel, at least that's what I hear from some people I know at LI Bus.
Even in reliability, our Cummins boys outshine the Detroit Diesel boys in a relability record. The only Detroit Diesel engine in our fleet that can keep up or surpass the Cummins boys are the Detroit Diesel Series 60 and Series 60Gs in our recent MCI Cruiser purchases!
Trevor Logan
Well I think the series 50 and 50G are some of the best damn bus engines out there. They are very fast, reliable, and quiet.
The older Detroit Diesel engines such as the 6V-92 don't perform that great, but the newer stuff from DD is great.
Plus I spoke to a few people (MTA bus div employees)at the Busfest who agree that Detroit diesel has a better record than Cummins.
yeah for the TA that is! Really, Cummins is designed for heavy highway while DDC is more geared towards urban stop and go use.
Trevor Logan
That is true to a point. Detroit Diesel engines are more common place in buses than Cummins. The reason that NJT Flxible Metro's with Cummins engines run better is because that is the common engine for that fleet, the Series 50 powered buses are only like 9 compared to 200+ units, so of course the Cummins equipped buses will run better because thats what the maintaince people at a depot know how to fix and the other units are like orphans. Any diesel engine will perform really well if it is maintained properly no matter who the manufacturer. Detroit Diesel's later engines are of 4 cycle design which allow them to run faster and cleaner than their 2 cycle predessesors, the 6V and 8V-71's and 92's. New Jersey Transit is new to the Cummins Family of engines starting in 1994. Previous to this year everything was Detroit Diesel and those buses are still running quite well. Detroit Diesel has a very strong history from the days of it being a division of the General Motors Corporation, while Cummins was always independent and not as well popular in the transit bus industry until later years. I prefer Detroit Diesel myself, they have an excellent product line. Cummins is so so, I only like their M11 series engines, which to me run pretty smooth and are quick acceleration wise.
Peace
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Yeah you have a point. NJT buses have alot less stop and go, and have quite a few long highway stretches.
I went to GS Plaza today, with the 163. Going we had traffic in the Lincoln tunnel, but the rest of the ride was fairly fast.
We had an MCI "Coach" style bus, which ran pretty good.
Going back there was a huge traffic jam leading out of the mall. The bus stop, which is more conveniently located, though, gets buses involved in the exodus traffic. Roosevelt Field's is in it's own place, so traffic does not screw up buses trying to leave.
I had a Flxible (for some reason, it's always an MCI going and a Flx going back. I think it had a Cummins engine, it was alot louder and vibrated more at idle. However it did seem to perform better than the MCI on hills, and did have pretty good pick-up on the highway strethes around the Meadowlands.
Loads of traffic around Union City. That's the one part of the trip I can't stand. We miss every darn traffic light and the lights are long. Then there's the crawl through the Lincoln tunnel. Took over an hour from GC Plaza back to the NYC terminal.
BTW, I looked at the map and stop and the mall and both indicate that 171 does NOT serve the mall and remains on rt.4. I didn't see any 171's either there. However I might still try the 175 next time I go to Garden State Plaza (that goes to the mall). The crawl through Lincoln and Union City really is frustrating. Next time I'll try the 175 for a change.
The 175 is pretty nice, I thinkg you definitely like that better. I use that route myself when I go to GS Plaza. The MCI's that you ride on the 163 are MC9A's in the 6xxx series or ocasionally an MC9B's in the 5xxx series. The MC9B's run alot better than the MC9's. The MCI's use the older 2 stroke Detroit Diesel 6V-92TA engines with the 9A's utilizing Mechincal Injection and the 9B's using electronic controls, also known as DDEC(Detroit Diesel Electonic Control). The Flxible's purchased in 1994 are Metro D's (40102-6C's), which utilize the Cummins C8.3 engine. This engine is an older design and is pretty rough on idle, but is pretty quick. These engines are 4 cycle, 6 cylnder rated at 280HP. 4 Cycle engines are known to vibrate alot compared to 2 cycle engines which are smoother but dirtier and not as fuel efficent. The newer engine which replaced the C8.3, the ISC is more powerful in terms of torque and has a DOHC(Double Over Head Cam) design, which is a smoother, cleaner engine than it's predessor. Well, I hope this is helpful and try out that 175 line, I think you might like it.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Actually the 8.3L Cummins C8.3 Engine in our (NJT) Flxible Metro-Ds (#1750-1976 & #3700-3792) & 1995 NovaBUS RTS-06 (#2601-2775) are 275 Horsepower Engines.
Cummins Incorporated did not kick over the "C" series 280 horsepower design until it was legally changed from the C8.3 to the ISC.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Actually, not all of the NJT Flxible Metro D's have C8.3's. #1968-1975 are equipped with Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines coupled to a ZF transmission. Pretty nice compared to Cummins powered units.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
www.transitworld.org
I am aware of that, Buses #1963-1975! But I was really referring to the engine really. I placed the series numbers so the chap can at least know what it is should he ride it, plus he won't see a DDC units on the 171 or 175, Market Street has 1800-1809 which are the Cummins units which ride on the 171 and 175 quite frequently as those lines need buses with quicker pick ups than the MCIs or Flxible Metro-Bs, Also the DDC powered Flxible Metro-D buses are Southern Division bound soon anyways.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Hey! Just giving needed information. This guy sounds like a traveler, and the more information he has the better. That goes for all Bus Talkers! We need acurate information, and that is why we have this forum.
DaShawn Pretlow
www.transitworld.org
Well I'm pretty happy now LI Bus has quite a few of the new series 50G powered Orions.
I've been on a few on the N21 now. They do quite well on the hills and are much faster than the Cummins buses.
I've seen 301-306, 330-335 in service. They sure are a big improvement over the other Orion CNG's LIB has.
Today while in Great Neck, I saw a driver from one of the older Cummins buses chat witha driver of one of the new Orions. It appears the driver let him shut down and re-start the bus, as some drivers still haven't gotten a chance to see the new equipment.
Somebody told me the new ones start differently. Is this true or is it just a minor difference?
I've heard them start and they make a warning beep instead of the buzz on the older ones. They still have gone with the regular bell for stops, while NYCT has chosen the beep.
I prefer the bell, you can hardly hear the beep on the new NYCT equipment.
Also, if you are a speed and bounce buff like I am, you are also better to try out the 171 line which now stops at Garden State Plaza, though the bus stop is on NJ Route 4, with the reconstruction of the Rt 4/Rt 17 Junction, they built a new overpass from the stop to the plaza (5 minute walk, if that!). Plus in complete travel time, it's only 24 minutes, compared to the 175 lines 38 minutes travel time and the 163 lines 51 minute travel times. Also the 171 runs more frequently too should you miss a bus (Weekday headway is 15 minutes, Saturday Headway is 20 minutes).
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I would say try both! Sometimes speed is not everything, function and purpose become priority. What every is best for you would be found by trying both routes out and decide for yourself. Good Luck!
Peace!
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
That's why I stated "If your a speed buff" because I know not everyone is a speed demoned like myself.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I hear you! The end result is he can decide for himself what he likes best based off of the information that you and myself and anyone else has or will give him.
DaShawn Pretlow
www.transitworld.org
Well it all depends on the weather. If it's mild I'll try the 171 and walk from the bus stop. But I'm leaning toward the 175, it may be 15 minutes longer, and while I do like speed I do like traveling through NJ's scenic neighborhoods. I imagine you don't see as much from route 4.
You see a decent amount from Route 4 also, not as much as the 175 line provides but it gives some insight to North NJ nieghborhoods.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Does route 4 have traffic lights? If not than the 171 could be fun in terms of speed.
No traffic lights on Route 4
Peace,
ANDEE
ZERO Traffic Lights! Barely anybody ringing the bell for stops.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Wow, I'll have to try this 171 bus (maybe tomorrow!)
Well I think Cummins engines are crap (sorry). They are unreliable in heavy use conditions. And the L10G is a true piece of crap.
All of our Orion CNG's at LI Bus should be repowered with series 50G's and we should be done with that Cummins crap.
Heck, a friend of mine says they knew somebody who had alot of trouble with their Cummins boat engine (they make boat engines?). Good thing Cummins don't power jet engines!!
Cummins engines just make this mourmoring sound, it was quite noticable on that bus 300 I was on the other day, she was mourmouring just like an L10G.
Cummins....crap!!!
Lots of luck on your new position, Robert. Operating a train is sure quite different than anything you've done dealing with the buses. I'll be changing postions to pretty soon. I scored an 88.5 on my dispatcher exam and am currently #50 on the new list. I should be called within the next 3-6 months at the latest. So wish me luck also everybody. BIG AL P.S. With the new pick, working overtime and personel obligations, I have not been able to get into bustalk lately. Hopefully, I will be able to start posting again regularly on this great website.
I've seen some buses that used to be out of JG are now coming out of ENY. They're the 5200's that came from KB(?). It's strange seeing them with a Q on the signs as part of the route number. So far, I've seen these buses on the Q56 and Q24. I have pictures of these buses on both of these routes. One of 5230 on the Q56 coming online today at TP13.
All of the 5200's that were originally assigned to KB are now assigned to ENY, by way of Gleason. The New Flyer C40LFs are nearly all in at JG. Only about 18 are left to be delivered
Mark
To RobertJackieGleason,
Is it true that the Orion CNG buses are leaving Jackie Gleason & if so, why isn't NYCT keeping these buses.
Finally, what depots will the remaining 5200's & 8500's series RTS buses will be transferred to & since 190 New Flyer Low Floor Buses will be the only buses staying at Jackie Gleason, will all the bus routes assigned to JG remain there, if not, which bus routes from JG will be transferred to what depot.
First of all I sayed that Jackie GLeason will get more Low Flour buses to replace the RTS's. I don't know were the RTS's are going to go. There won't be any routes moved around becouse there will be enough buses to cover the runs.
Second you could have put this post as part of the post that I have already started so other people can also leave there input. Other people already told you not the post just to one person in Bustalk.
Robert
Do you ride the short bus?
-Hank
(Hey, it's on topic!) :)
Well today I had the pleasure of getting bus 300 on the Q12 this afternoon. The Cummins sure lived up to it's shoddy reputation.
The bus sounded horrible and shook a LOT, the vibration was so loud you couldn't hear yourself think!. I could tell it was that Cummins engine, sounded sort of like a LI Bus but even worse. There seemed to be alot of rear door problems (LI Bus, does this sound familiar?) There was also a ton of smoke from this bus. Lots of funny noises from the engine around Bayside. A/C was horrible. However it was not that slow.
Also the curse word "s***" was carved into the dash. A piece of it sure was!
Not to inject my sick-minded adolescent thoughts into this generally highbrow forum, but the phrase "Cummins vibrator" just struck a wrong chord ...
Cummins vibrator...
LOL, you must be huge :()
Well some of our less than respectful young people could be led to have a little fun in the wrong way in the back of that bus!!!
I wish you hadn't gone there. A Staten Island resident who drives for Acadamey on an NJT contract route was arrested recently for photographing and fondling a 13-y-o girl who was having sex in the back of the bus with her 16-y-o boyfriend.
-Hank
Just a chord? I figured it would have hit below the belt...
-Hank :)
Here are images I did today at about 4:30pm......
Enjoy!
Trevor Logan
Wow! Those new ones are quite something. What's Academy using them for? Interesting styling... looks like a rocket-ship.
Chris
I saw posted on Dave Mackey's unofficial NJ Transit home page a few days ago that NJ Transit buses #7502 and 7503 have arrived (in addition to #7501, which Trevor has kept us informed about and provided beautiful pictures of). #7502 is allegedly a 40 foot, 96 inch bus, while #7503 is a 45 footer. Dave's site currently states, "The MCI 102DL3 demo 7503 has been sighted at Academy's recently remodeled Toms River garage on Route 9. The bus has no paint job. It's also being demonstrated at Coach USA." Thought some of you might be interested in this, and wondered if anyone had additional info, particularly about where #7502 might be. I believe the 96 inch buses were supposed to be for Holland Tunnell service.
More than likely, yes. However, I wouldn't be shocked to see a few D4000/96 models sent to South Jersey for use on Cape May/Wildwood service via Ocean Dr since those bridges in Cape May County are very narrow - it's hard for the current cruiser fleet go pass by them. I am referring to trips on the 315 (Washington/Egg Harbor), 316 (Newton/Egg Harbor), and 319 (Egg Harbor/Meadowlands). At best, maybe a couple will go to Egg Harbor, and a few to Meadowlands. Some will definitely go to Howell (134 - Monmouth/Wall St service).
The entire 96" wide fleet will be for the Northern-Central Division, for service in the Holland Tunnel. The only NJT garages that will see these 96" wide MCI D4000/96 Cruisers will be Greenville/Ironbound for the Route 120 & Howell for the Route 134. The Privates that will see these 96" wide Cruisers are Academy Bus Lines and Suburban Transit/Trails.
For the 300 routes, those will recieve the 102" wide MCI D4000 Cruiser with the bathrooms, yes there is about 75 of the Cruiser coming in with bathroom which no longer makes this bus a "Cruiser." At this point it becomes a "Coach."
Also we at NJT tested the New Flyer D45S Viking #996 from the TA on friday, We cannot use this bus also as it does not fit in the Port Authority, Bus is too tall by 4 inches however it does fit in our garages.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Today an Academy Bus operator was arrested. The cause, watching and photographing two kids on his bus have set (which was Contracted NJ Transit Year 2000 NovaBUS RTS-06 #122x).
The kids boarded his bus at a high school in Somerset County, NJ, proceeded to the back of the bus, where they began to make out. Then once realizing that they were the only ones on the bus, the proceed to have sex. The bus operator reached the end of the line, got up from his seat watched to two have sex and even took a few pics of the incident.
Then proceeded to show someone at his depot, in which that person turned him in. He was picked up at his Staten Island home and is in jail right now as this is being posted. The collected his briefcase which has two cameras and several photos including those of today's incident.
First off, How are you gonna have sex on a NJT Nova, which has no real high back seats to hide yourself, the bus is more open than Manhattan Mall for the Christmas Season! STUPID ON THE KIDS PART. BUT The bus operator was no better either!
Trevor Logan
Ya know . . . (!)
What the hell is this world coming to (think I just answered my own question . . .)
I hope the next stop for that bus is the scrapyard.
[I hope the next stop for that bus is the scrapyard.]
Why? The bus didn't do anything wrong - just the driver and the two kids. That's no reason to punish an innocent bus which had no control over the situation.
All it needs is a little cleaning (or maybe, at most, a couple of replacement seats).
Yeah, don't kill a bus just because of that. Besides, what could the kids have done on the bus anyway?
Yeah, don't kill a bus just because of that. Besides, what damage could the kids have done on the bus anyway, other than defacing it?
I know the driver personally, he is a friend of mine. I believe I know the driver who turned him in, I can find out the whole story, but I will not give out any information on it, the best I will say is if all the info is accurate or not, I am not quite sure if I will yet. Many sources say it was sex and others say it was only making out. I will defintely look into it. He is an excellent driver, well maybe you can say was depending on what the outcome will be. We all make mistakes, but don't think of him as a pervert just because even though what he did was perverted. Even, though me saying this sounds wrong, defending him, but I know him and he is a very nice person.
Yup, pedophilia bordering on date rape is certainly the hallmark of a "nice person." ... I wouldn't put money on the brother keeping his job.
Chris
As of now, he is on suspension, and he made a mistake. A terrible mistake. He did not rape her, so he can't be considered a molestor or anything. Even though he did touch her and that is somewhat consdiered sexual but is not consdiered rape. I am sure if I was you I would feel the same as you, but he is my friend and I am just trying to defend him.
Can not agree, because what if he comes back and does the same thing. It's that same principle as a Sex Offender, I definately don't want him as my bus operator.
And on a buff/NJT employee note, We just got the work order for the bus that it happend one. The work order is for a full rear cross seat replacement.
So Sorry No Scrap Yard!
Trevor Logan
Hot Damn, Those Joisey kids sure have rough sex!!!!!
[Hot Damn, Those Joisey kids sure have rough sex!!!!! ]
Just keepin' it real ...
Seriously, wouldn't a good scrub-down have been enough? They're plastic seats, after all ...
"They're plastic seats, after all . . . "
The seats are cushioned and quite comfortable, beleive it or not.
>>> Can not agree, because what if he comes back and does the same thing. <<<
Is teenagers having sex on the back seat of the busses so common that having this happen again is such a big worry?
>>> We just got the work order for the bus that it happend one. The work order is for a full rear cross seat replacement <<<
That certainly seems excessive. I would think spot remover could handle the problem. Do they go to this extreme if someone gets sick and throws up on the seats? And I am sure with the amount of usage the bus gets, some one has urinated (accidently or on purpose) on the seats. Do they get replaced then?
Tom
Why not? I wouldn't want to sit on a cushioned seat that someone had upjucked or peed on (or *squirted* on). This is why NJT should opt for plastic seats for their transit buses. The liquid is not absorbed and they are easier to clean. You can clearly see the puddle of whatever liquid and thus avoid sitting on it. Plus, try to lie down across plastic bus seats and you'll wind up in chairopractic therepy. This will discourage certain extracurricular activities from taking place in a public place.
If I were you, I'd find other freinds.
-Hank
>>> Even, though me saying this sounds wrong, defending him, but I know him and he is a very nice person <<<
I see nothing wrong with standing up for a friend in the face of a lynch mob. I do not know the driver involved nor do I have any information regarding the facts except what I have read on Bustalk, which seem to be somewhat contradictory. The best I can tell from what I read is that the driver is alleged to have take a picture (or pictures) of the two having sex, and that he fondled the girl's breasts.
If these facts are looked at in the most favorable light to the driver, it could be said that the picture was taken to document what was happening, and the "fondling" (as reported by the girl?) occurred when he attempted to break them up by pulling the girl off of the boy. Presumably the true facts will come out at a hearing on the matter.
Tom
I sure hope they wiped the seats off when they were finished!
The radio station I heard this story on also mentioned that the bus driver may have joined in the sex after he took the pictures. Can't substantiate and didn't see anything in the newspapers about this.
[The radio station I heard this story on also mentioned that the bus driver may have joined in the sex after he took the pictures. Can't substantiate and didn't see anything in the newspapers about this.]
Well, Academy is a service-oriented organization; the driver was probably just trying to be helpful and demonstrate the excellent action of the bus's built-in Cummins vibrator.
Sorry, this thread isn't bringing out the best side of me ... ;)
Chris
what is "Having set" as per the original post?
That was a typo, it was suppose to be having sex!
Trevor
this entire discussion is ridiculous
In San Francsco the Crotch USA yard I used to work for was located next to an infamous San Francisco leather bar and more than once you would go into a bus on the south side of the yard adjacent to the bar and you might see two leatherites going at it in the back.
HAnd them some paper towwels and condoms and let them finish up was the company policy.
I'm pretty sure the Novas that NJT leased to Academy had Detroit Diesel engines...
Every NovaBUS RTS at NJ Transit is powered by Cummins!
1995-96 RTS are Cummins C8.3s to a ZF Ecomatr HP590 Transmission
1999-00 RTS are Cummins ISCs to a ZF Ecomat HP592 Transmission
Trevor Logan
Which ones are the 95-96, and which 99-00? (Unit #s)
Buses #2601-2775 are our 1995-1996 RTSs
Buses #1000-1572 are our 1999-2000 40 Foot RTSs
Buses #2501-2580 are our 1999-2000 30 Foot RTSs (Nicknamed "The Baby Novas")
Bus #8089 is our 2000 RTS WFD EXPRESS Demo
Trevor Logan
Where is 8089 currently running out of, and what route(s) is it on?
#1000 belongs to the New Jersey State Police as a mobile recruiting center, similar to #1154 (the 1981 Gru-Flx version) which is a mobile command center for the NJ Transit Police.
I know that, BUT it's still a official NJ Transit Bus that we ordered. We just handed that bus over to the state when it came it, I see her all the time when I shift a bus to the Newark Shops!
Trevor Logan
i hate to get to the point but the staten island advance said that this man a staten island resident lifted up the girls blouse and fondled her. that was the extent of it.
These are the things that LOOK like a trolley, but have rubber tires & use a diesel engine for motive power ... yuck !
Mr t__:^)
Can't use the real thing, DC still prohibits overhead wires in the "Old City" part of DC, so back to conduit it would go. (rats)
Hi:
Does anybody know if NYC Transit will be getting more
MCIs. If they are, when will these arrive,
tentatively? Also, what road numbers will they carry,
please? Is it true that these things are built in
North Dakota?
Lastly, do the NY Bus Service Fishbowls still run.
I have a slide of the last ex-TA Fishbowl being lifted for
the last time (LI Bus Rockville Centre Depot) if
anybody needs this.
Have a nice weekend,
Elias
The TA is slated to being receiving 170 New MCI D4500 (DL3) Commuter Crusers shortly. They will be numbered 2705-2874. Yes, these bad boys are built in North Dakota!
The NY Bus Service Fishbowls are still kicking ass to this day!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
there not kickin that much ass. theres usually one broken down at bway and 23 st nightly.
Give them a break, they're almost 20! I'd rather ride a broken down New Look than an ugly Ikarus (now NABI) anyday.
That's not a break down, that's a Swing Bus!
Trevor Logan
http://www.silive.com/news/advance/index.ssf?1005busbill0.html
-Hank
Very interesting article. There should be a law/rule that prohibits standees on the MCI's.
x17#1977Mike
Legally, you can't stand on one.
So there is a rule, just nobody enforces it.
Just like no standees in front of line. On rush hour N20/21 buses, buses are often packed to the front door!
Well LI Bus really NEEDS more buses. Lately it's been so bad on the PM rush on the N20/21 that buses are completely off schedule. Every bus is packed going into Flushing in the PM, and with traffic and more stops they get delayed. Today I waited for a 6:02pm bus to Flushing that did not arrive till 6:35pm!!
Drivers get no layover time as soon as they get to Flushing they got to go, since they are often departing 15 to 30 minutes late between 4 and 7pm. This thus starts a chain reaction messing up service down the line, and everytime I've gotten a bus out of Glen Cove between 4 and 7pm it's 15 to 30 minutes late!!!
No, what you need is a bus that is designed for that type of service. The MCI's ,while nice busses, are not designed for the type of service the MTA is using them for. They are over the road busses. Thya should be using a transit bus with soft seats. Would save them a few bucks too!
Peace,
ANDEE
To the contrary, those buses ARE designed for that service. There just aren't enough of them.
-Hank
Maybe there aren't enough MCIs but the whole thing sounds like another ATU726 ploy to increase it's membership. Notice how a certain union leader (with his own internal union problems) loves to portray himself as a hero of Staten Islanders.
we already have 1050 members so that remark makes no sense. as an atu member i can tell you that if not for larry si riders would still be paying 4 dollars a ride. at the same time it was larry who wanted nyct to purchase these buses in the mid 90s so i dont understand some of his reasoning. he has had chances to move on in the political arena and chose to remain local 726 leader. do you ever hear willlie james taking up the riders cause?
As the head of ATU726 Larry's only real concern is for his membership, which is understandable. I just see through his 'concern' for Staten Islanders. The express fare was $4 for years before he 'fought' for it's reduction. He really wanted the $3 fare to force the private tax-paying bus companies out of business because he's terrified of competition. He won't run for office because he is just an old left-wing labor leader. As for the MCI coaches, he was among those fighting for them, I'll give him that. Everyone knows the MCIs really aren't configured for standees, neither were the Orions or any coach style bus because of the narrower aisles. The MTA is buying more MCI buses for S.I. anyway and he knows it. He has his own problems within ATU726 and needs to get his face in the Advance or on channel 1 from time to time. So that's why all of a sudden the MCI standee issue became so important for him.
You have commented on labor issues before. Are you a union member? I feel the general tone of your comments are so that you are an anti union person. If you are one of those Staten Island express riders who has to stand all the time, you would appreciate Larry trying to get more express buse service so you can have a seat. Yes, the TA is buying more MCI buses for S.I., but a certain number will allow Orions to be transfered to replace 18 year old relics. I read TA spokesman Al O'Leary's comments. Al is a P.R. guy anyway, he didn't come up thru the ranks. Didn't he have a similar job with NYPD up till a few years ago? Anyway, Al admitted that there is a lull between additional ridership and implimentation of additional service. I call that TA beauracracy at work. SOmetimes from pick to pick service adjustments are necessary, sometimes extras have to be addded as needed. OMG the TA may have to pay overtime to provide the service. Heaven forbid! On the TA's side, express service is very unproductive and labor intensive because of most everyone traveling in one direction during a very short timeframe.
I'm not anti-union but have a low opinion of government employee unions because they have the luxury of operating inefficiently in a non-competitive environment with our tax dollars.
I am a union member of TWU for 21 years. I do 4 round trips daily on the E line. I bust my ass every day in the process. Elsewhere in the main site, there is a diary of a typical motormans workday about the crap we have to put up with. I guess you think it's an easy job. And don't give me the hogwash that if I don't like it somebody else can do it because I am well trained, experienced, have a flawless operational record, average less than 2 sick days per year (despite this, the TA makes sure I'm home if I go sick, is your job like that?) A new guy has to be trained, get experience, and I'm sure your agree that there is no substitute for experience. Did you ever see the numbers of people we haul daily on the E line? Take a round trip between 3 & 8 PM. Despite that, I guess we are inefficient because there is no competition. Is that my fault? Oh, excuse me, I'm just trying to support a family.
>>>...(despite this, the TA makes sure I'm home if I go sick, is your job like that?) ...
On this point I agree 100%. The TA treats its employees like children I fail to see how this attitude, on their part, increases employee morale.
I mean really having to dring in an original death certificate when a family member dies....spare me
Peace,
ANDEE
Do anybody know the reason behind the B71 taking over the B65 western terminal?? By looking at the B65 pulling out of Fulton Mall everyday, Im thinking more passengers on the B65 used to transfer to the B41, B45, or B67 buses to head into Downtown Bklyn before the switch. Could someone help me out here?
B71#863Mike
buses 2706 and 2707 have arrived at yukon depot and are now ready for service. according to previous posts yukon will get 2705-2724, castleton 2725-2744 with 2745-2804 going to ulmer park. please post if this info has changed. supposedly 40 of these buses are at atlantic diesel in somerset new jersey. also mci may now be on strike.
Here are the changes:
Yukon 2705-2746
Castleton 2747-2785
Ulmer Park 2786-2804
Trevor Logan
Trevor Logan,
Since the new MCI buses are supposed to go to Yukon & Castleton Depots, what will happen to the Orion Surburban express buses,
115-154 at Yukon
155-172 & 611-630 at Castleton
when all the new MCI buses are in service at both depots, if the Orion Surburban express buses leave both depots or one of them, what depot(s)will they be assigned to.
Please post information on bustalk.
Ok Here is your answer, BUT PLEASE STOP DIRECTING IT TOWARDS ME ONLY SO THERE IS NO COMPLAINTS BY THE OTHER BUSTALKERS! Thank You
Yukon will send 115, 116 & 117 to Casey Stengel. 118-132 will go to Queens Village. 133-155 will operate out of Yukon. Castleton will keep 156-172 & 611-630 and gain 155.
Trevor Logan
155 will stay at Yukon!
Trevor
Trevor Logan,
When some of the new MCI buses arrive at Ulmer Park Depot, what depot(s)will the rebuilt GM, 4800's RTS Surburban & Nova Surburban express buses be assigned to along with there seriel numbers going to the depot.
ooooooooooooooooooook! Make this the last time as a direction, I will answer your questions anytime, BUT to keep the peace, stop placing my name in the Subject Title!
1996 Nova Moves:
10 will go from Ulmer Park to Quill
1 will go from Ulmer Park to Jamaica
5 will go from Queens Village to Jamaica
1987 TMC Moves:
4 will go from Ulmer Park to Quill
6 will go from Ulmer Park to Jamaica
Remans 1981/82 Moves:
6 from Ulmer Park to Quill
6 from Ulmer Park to Jamaica
Numbers of buses to moves are scattered so I cannot provide you with the bus numbers.
Trevor Logan
I would like to know if there is going to be any relief for the 5 Brooklyn Bus Depots in the forseeable future, if so, what do the NYCT DOB have in store for the 5 Brooklyn Bus Depots.
This question was asked last week and answered in detail. Instead of posting the same question over and over and over and over and over again, READ THE G-DDAMNED ANSWERS!!!!1
David
Well today I finally got a good bus on the 6:54pm N21 out of Flushing.
It was 331. It was a very fast ride, we were running ahead of schedule for a change!! Also handled the hills in Manhasset better than the Cummins buses. The series 50G even handled that little steep hill by my home with ease! I'd like to see a Cummins do that!
Does anyone out there knows what's going on with the 4 new proposed South Shore express buses for Staten Island since the Governor hasn't signed the express bus bill.
If anyone out there has the plan on where these proposed 4 new South Shore express buses are going to operate between along with it's route numbers, please post the information on bustalk.
1957 GMC Old Look #1912, part of WMATA's Historic Collection fleet, was at the Taste of DC event in downtown Washington today. It was parked at 13th and Pennsylvania and available for public inspection. I had the chance to chat with the driver; he said that although the bus is now painted in WMATA colors, its service life had been with Baltimore and later DC Transit -- he felt that WMATA should have had it restored to its DC Transit condition, with green paint. The bus looks brand new inside; because it doesn't see regular service, it's sparkling clean and graffiti free and actually looks newer than the just-received Orion Vs and Orion VIs. The Taste of DC event continues Sunday and Monday; I don't know if this bus will be there then or not. Other interesting sights for busfans -- the Prevost tour buses for the bands, a Winnebago for WPGC, etc.
Coming home on the 32 line (buses 2217 and 4346 (I stopped in G'town)), I saw Orion II #3718, which is one of the specially painted Adams Morgan-U St Link buses, in service as an N8. I guess they must have been really short of equipment at Western to send this out... most of the passengers looked confused as they were waiting to board at Friendship Heights.
Chris
Speaking of old look buses, I have a toy model old look bus that I would be willing to sell to anyone interested in those type of buses. It is 8 inches long and 1 3/4 inches wide, metal, bright red on top and bottom with white in the middle, double stream front doors that open up with the push of a button, rear door, on the left, that also opens with a button, red plastic tail and roof lights, white plastic head lights, and six rubber tires with chrome wheels. The bus # is 1083 and says on the sides, "1869 Commercials International Group." Front destination sign says "Western Castle".
I don't know if it's a Mack or an old GMC from the 50's. Also don't know what city it ran in. However, it is in mint condition.
Anybody willing to buy it can E-mail me and I'll sell it to the highest bidder. I think it is a real collector's item and like I said, anyone who is an old look bus fanatic will definitely love it.
BIG AL
The N8 doesn't go to Friendship Heights. They use the Adams-Morgan bus on the 99 in the mornings as well (from what I hear). I don't like buses painted a certain way so they can only operate on certain routes or can only operate on certain routes without confusing the passengers since most don't have enough common sense to ignore the colors on the bus and read the sign instead.
[The N8 doesn't go to Friendship Heights. They use the Adams-Morgan bus on the 99 in the mornings as well (from what I hear). I don't like buses painted a certain way so they can only operate on certain routes or can only operate on certain routes without confusing the passengers since most don't have enough common sense to ignore the colors on the bus and read the sign instead.]
I agree. What i was saying was pretty much that -- that it was probably only pressed into service on this route because they'd run out of other buses. I agree that they shouldn't paint buses exclusive to one route. I think the N8 does run into Friendship on weekends, but I might have been mistaken. It was definitely an N-bus, at any rate, and the N2 and N4 for sure terminate at Friendship.
Chris
N8 only serves the Van Ness and Tenleytown Stations. The N2 and N4 don't operate Orion IIs, only the N6 does.
Musta been the N6 then. I goofed.
Chris
Either that or the driver messed up when setting the sign. I've seen things such as "J7 FEDERAL TRIANGLE" (N7 FEDERAL TRIANGLE), "T3 ROCKVILLE STATION" (T2 ROCKVILLE STATION), and on the MetroBus operated Ride-On 36 trips, one always reads "M36 BETHESDA STATION" or "M36 CONNELLY SCHOOL". I saw the bus today in the morning but its sign wasn't working (the bus is 5175 and it hasn't been the past few days).
If anyone was wondering what it does when no route is entered, the sign reads "RT FORT TOTTEN" (I saw this on Orion 4350 when I went to get the pictures of the old buses at Fort Totten Service Lot back in September although the sign was promptly changed to "E2 FORT TOTTEN".
By the way, did you ever post those old-bus pics on your site? I didn't see them the last time I looked.
Chris
1912 was never a DC Transit coach. Here is the current information on this coach:
1912 - GM TDH-5105 (Old Look)
Bought by Baltimore Transit - 1957
Retired by Mass Transit Administration - 1975
Transferred to WMATA 1977 to be restored as a Wash. D.C. - Metrobus, as WMATA had retired all of their ex-DCTS 5105 earlier.
This Restored (Metrobus) still bears its Baltimore number
The inside of that bus still has the old advertisements for Baltimore area things as well.
The Straphangers Campaign just revamped their website. See the NY1 story here: New Website Warns Subway and Bus Commuters of Delays.
Straphangers Network
OCTOBER 04TH, 2000
Straphangers Network Website
Transit information from the NYPIRG Straphangers organization.
www.straphangers.org
Just remember - this self-appointed "advocacy" group makes its money ONLY as long as it has something to "advocate." As soon as the NYC subway and bus systems run like the Swiss railroads, it'll have no reason to exist.
That's why Straphangehrs so vigorously opposed the MTA's first Capital Program in the 1980's, and that's why its people continue to sabotage service to this day. [Ever notice how the numbers of BIE's and sick passengers increase within the four to five weeks before Straphangers issues a blistering report on subway reliability, and then subside afterward?]
I would like to know why MCI's 2706 & 2707 are at Castleton Depot & NOT Yukon Depot, was a change again in the 100 MCI bus fleet depot assignment, if so, please post the correct 100 MCI bus fleet depot.
They are touring the system right now, they will also see a couple of days at Ulmer Park too, BUT 2706 and 2707 are Yukon Units, So accept the assignments I myself and another poster posted!
Trevor Logan
trevor is right. those buses were prepped for yukon service last week. when i came in friday they were on track 5 in yukon. perhaps ulmer park drivers will break in on them.
Why couldn't the MTA Number these buses from 2140-2199 and the second series from 2705-2999? MTA makes no sense sometimes.
X17#1894Gary
Probably didn't want a numerical skip in the numbers for the same contract order.
60 plus 295 equals 355. mta only ordered 170.
I just downloaded the sound of Remans bus 7513 from Transit World and I must say it was beautiful, all 32 seconds of it. Well, I'd like to know where I could find some other bus sounds if there are any? All help would be appreciated.
And while I'm on the subject, Metro-Houston Neoplan-Artic 4541 (my favorite of this horrible fleet), was representin' on the Beechnut line and workin' that engine all the way. But, the best thing about 4541 is her scream. It sounds like tires screeching and a woman seeing a ghost all rolled up into one. Metro had fixed it for a bit and now it back better (and louder) than ever! I guess you can't keep a good bus, even if it is a Neoplan down.
I'll have to hunt it down, it's around here somewhere...but back in the very early 1970's I made a tape of a San Francisco Muni GM T8H5305. I was behind it in my car, on Haight Street. Complete with loud engine, jake brake, etc.
If I find it, I'll be able to make copies for anyone, at the cost of the cassette and mailing.
DaShawn's recording of Reman #7513 is great. We rode 7513 on the B6 a few months ago. I will be adding more of DaShawn's MP3 files later tonight (approximately 15).
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
transitworld.org
Geez, stop insulting Neoplans, first of all. Ride a SEPTA neoplan articulated, especially 7209, they are so cool and quiet and nice. Also, to get more transit sounds, you could go to transitalk.com. They have alot of sounds of buses as well as a train.
Neoplan's are cool. Especially the ones out in Los Angeles. Those LA neoplans have the most unique sound of any bus that I have ever been on. Kinda like the TA orions, you know when a Q44 is coming without even opening your eyes.
Yeah, the Neoplans SEPTA has sorta have a unique sound too.
LA's Neoplans are nowhere near as unique sounding as the 4500-4679 series Flyer's at San Francisco Municipal Railway.
And even more unique sounding that those were Muni's fleet of GM T8H5305's. Extra loud 8V71 engines, constant-drive cooling fans, jake brakes, tiny mufflers, and horns hooked up to the turn signals to boot!!!
I just returned from a week in Florida and found the latest issue of Motor Trend magazine in my stack of mail. On pages 104 & 105 Volkswagen has an ad showing a three quarters view of an NYCTA RTS with what clearly is a Castleton Depot logo. The side destination sign is somewhat visible and looks like it reads B44 BRIDGE PLZ. The bus number has been blackened out and the bus features the old MTA "M" logo surrounded by the words NEW YORK CITY SURFACE. The photograph appears to have been shot on a Brooklyn street. Does anybody know what bus this?
Yes, I've seen the same ad. It's Picture Cars Incoporated's GMC RTS-04, Ex-TA #1648!
Trevor Logan
Did they give it a repaint? I noticed the front door frames are plainted black.
And why did they tint the windows blue?
They kept 1648 in it's orginal scheme for whatever reasons, and the reason the windows are blue it because first off those are not the normal TA style windows on that buses, secondly, the window tint has not been right since the movie "The Siege" when they had a Blue Paint Bomb go off on the bus.
Trevor Logan
If you look close, the blue 'paint' in the bus interior while it's in the warehouse, you can see the shadow cast by the window frame, and the flatness of the blue section that doesn't match the curvature of the window. It's a screen.
-Hank
And 1648 is an ex FLA bus. So the destination signage was correct in some sorts. FLA had 1640-1659 in the early 90's.
B46#1642Mike
Today after hitting the Perris swapmeet which featured Mr.Pink bringing out his beautiful GM Artic 5034, me and my buddy Mr.Orange passed by Complete Coach Works a major bus sales/rebuilder and found something amazing.
By the way this is in Riverside,Ca about 60 miles from Los Angeles,Ca.
Sitting forlorn (And in a perfect spot with great lighting) was WMATA 2000 an Orion 7 PRE-PRODUCTION PROTOTYPE!!!
Its serial number was LA0000 repeat LA0000 NOT A TYPO!
It seemed to be in a state of disassembley as the interor was gone and where the rear door was there was a big weld cut across the side.
If anyone is interested in trading for a print of my photo of this bus email me at RTS21-0350@webtv.net and we can go from there.
A neat photo as it shows not only this bus but a Foothill Transit Gillig and a Las Vegas (CAT) New Flyer to show its odd location.
What a find!!!
Perhaps its bieng quietley scrapped?
Does anyone know about this very odd bus?
Blue
This is the new Orion model soon to replace the Orion 6. New York City Transit is ordering 250 of these buses, 125 Hybrids & 125 CNG Versions.
Trevor Logan
They are already going to replace teh Orion VI? Geez, that's quick. WMATA is still finishing their order of Orion VIs.
Yes, this change over is suppose to take sometime next year.
The Orion VI is being replace because of certain design issues. Mainly the issue with the drop-down rear axle. Though Orion corrected the problem with the Toronto units, they still need some that is gonna be 100% reliable on the roads, thus the Orion 7 Design which basically is a hybrid of a Orion 6 and Orion 5 all in one coach.
Trevor Logan
What on earth is a WMATA 7? We don't have any here.
Ya'll don't have it YET! It's in LA, its a demo! It'll be in the Metro Area soon!
Trevor Logan
Well folks I am glad to have given ya' all the heads up on this very odd find.
Its strange to me that it would travel from the factory in upstate NY to Los Angeles then be sent back to the buyer in Washington, D.C.
What was also odd was its state of dis-assembley.
Does anyone have any contacts at Oroin Bus Industires?
Also note it featured a slightly diffrent WMATA scheme with stripes across the roofline and a diffrent stle lettering font.
As soon as its scanned I wil post t accordingly.
Advise,
Blue
I had posted aresponse on Bustalk on Saturday in regards to the proposed 4 new South Shore express buses in which the bill hasn't been sign by the Governor.
If anyone has gotten any information from NYCT DOB or Operations Planning in regards to the South Shore express bus bill & where these 4 new buses would operate between. Please post information on Bustalk.
I appreciate it.
No one knows except those that are working on the project directly, which I don't think any of them post on this board.
Usually if you don't get a response, NO ONE KNOWS!
Trevor Logan
We know you asked that question on Saturday. You don't have to remind us, because we read the board. Did it ever occur to you that you didn't get an answer because no one knows? Get a life. Please!
These items will be posted ,,shortly ,in the agenda
When they are availalbe..the first place that they appear are in the MTA Board Minutes
Sorry for the spelling errors
As I mentioned last month, bus #3822 in NYCTA Jamaica depot will be scrapped because of heavy damage in the front from rearending a truck. The operator claimed the brakes failed but an inspection of this bus found nothing wrong other than 2 broken windshields and a demolished front header panel and dash board. The operator may be in some trouble now. Anyway, bus #3870 just arrived yesterday to take it's place. Off course, since this is S.E Queens, sending a newer bus would have been a federal crime.
BIG AL
Before everybody blasts me, actually, #3870 has been in Jamaica depot, but has been out for awhile and just came back with a new paint job. Why they would paint it I have no clue but that probably means it will not be retired any time soon.
BIG AL
I beg to differ. A new paintjob is the ticket to the scrapper. The TA repainted a few R27's over 10 years ago so that they could have a 100% graffiti free subway car fleet only to scrap them a few days later after replacements came in from the contractor doing the general overhaul of other cars. I have seen this done on FP buses as well. The TA has the best looking scrap I know of!
I think that's the TA's way. Slap some paint on 'em today scrap 'em next week.
Wayne
I was over at Disneyland this morning, and into the shuttle bus area drives a fairly decent looking RTS-II, freshly painted solid white with the black trim, and it's working for the Hilton Hotel. It has those extra lights astride the front destination sign, a blue hard-plastic-seat interior with single seats on one side, and the "Watch Your Step" and "Kneeling Bus" decals in the front stepwell were definitely NYCTA-style. And it had the flat exit doors a la NYCTA.
I'm thinking, how the heck did THAT make it out here?
Well, a quick check of the builder plate gave the answer. It NEVER was a NYCTA bus! Sure fooled me!
It was serial HR825001, which was a 1987 demo -- the first RTS completed by TMC in Roswell, and for years had been working for Imperial County Transit in El Centro, California (operated by Goodall's Charter Service, now a Coach USA company). While it was in El Centro, it had the blue NYCTA-style striping as well.
I don't know what replaced it (if anything) in El Centro, but there were two other matching buses. Will have to keep eyes open for them, I'm sure they're around somewhere.
Oink,
When were the avenues in Manhattan made one way, and how was bus service immediately affected?
Actually what I would like to know is what bus routes used what avenues back when they could come back the same way.
It was sometime after November 1965 and before 1973. Sorry that I can't narrow it down closer than that. I was in HS and stuck on the #7 platform of Grand Central waiting for a local at about 5:30 PM when the blackout hit. After several minutes the TA ordered everyone out of the station to the street. I figured to go to Fifth Avenue and wait for a (then #15, now Q32) bus to Queens. After about an hour I figured I should go to the S/B side and take it to the end of the line at 25th street and then I'll be on it for the N/B trip up Fifth. That is why I know the change had to have happened after Nov. '65. I seem to remeber going into the city as a newlywed in '73 and the one ways were in effect.
If you are an Academy fan, you may have heard that the Academy Blue Bird Bus #113 was sold, but was given back right away. She is back and is not running. They usually use an 11xx or 12xx Nova at Kean University where she the Blue Bird is suppose to be doing the campus shuttle, but she needs something on the axle fixed so she is not running at this time. As, I said before you can find one of their NJT Novas at Kean doing the shuttle.
Jay
Noted on Glenns roster they have been scrapped.
TransitTalk roster says they are being stored.
Why scrap 1990 RTS's???
They are CNG's and there tank can't handle the higher PSI's that Gleason Fuel system is fueling the buses to. The tanks on the Orions were upgraded so they can handle up to 4500PSI and the New Flyer came in that way. The RTS's can only handle 3600PSI. It would cost to much to retank 8398 and 8399 sine they were almost out for sirvice anyway.
Robert
Why not send 8398-8399 and 8567 to Triboro Coach or Command ?
Q18#2067Gary
Why not Dieselize them?
Here in LA we had an identical TMC 1273 originally Methanol then MTA converted it to CNG using a Cummins L-10 with Z-F trans, it was a true hangar queen.
The CNG tanks were placed underneath the bus.
After sonths of endless storage they finnaly converted it to Diesel using a 6V92.
At least I got to ride it with Mr.Orange at the wheel before it was Dieselized.
Blue
I remember seeing these buses on the B48 when JG had that run. There was one RTS CNG that looked like the ones Triboro, and Command use. The others had a square CNG tank on the roof. They also has a neat roof exhaust pipe. It was much longer than the ones on diesel Novas, and was curved to the left of the bus. It actually stuck out to the left by a foot. Where are these buses stored? It would be nice to see a TA CNG RTS again. Slayer.
Currently these three buses are stored at the Crosstown paint facility and are in a visible spot.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
1994 TMC RTS-06 #8567 is suppose to receive the same upgrades as the Orions and return to service. Date of that project has not been released, it's only talks as of right now.
1991 TMC RTS-06 #8398 & #8399 are possible candidates for a Hybrid upgrade like it's sister #8397. This is also talk as of right now.
Trevor Logan
That makes sense. Does 8567 have a different type of tank than 8398/8399? It seems 8567's takes up the whole bus and is rounded, and 8399 is more squared and fits between the emergency exit doors.
Yes, #8567 has a totally different system than it's cousins #8398 and #8399. BUT #8567 still has that lower capacity, but it's upgradable, the other two are not.
Trevor Logan
Does anyone knows why there are articulated buses running along the M23 Crosstown line.
I thought they weren't going to run the articulated buses on that line.
Finally, when will the M14 receive articulated buses & when it does will the M14 move to Michael J. Quill Depot & what bus will move from MIchael J. Quill Depot to Hudson Depot to replace the M14.
It was always planned for the M23 to receive New Flyer D60HF Galaxy Articulateds. Though the nieghborhoods along the M23 line tried to fight the Artic coming to the line, they failed, and miserably at that.
The original lines slated for Articulateds were the M14 (Won't Happen), M15 (Will Happen Soon), M23 (Done), M42 (Planned), M66 (Planned, BUT Probably Won't Happen), M79 (Done), M86 (Done), M102 (Planned).
The M14 on the other which needs the Articulateds badly, can not get them. Due to the turn-around at Chelsea Piers and the turn-around at the east end on the M14A, they can not apply Articulateds to this line. So No Artics for the M14 Line (For Now!).
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Since now the MTA has 260 new articulated buses being plannned for the 2000-2004 Capital Plan & when they are delivered, will the articulated buses be assigned to Brooklyn, if so, what depot(s) will they be assigned to & what routes are being considered in Brooklyn for articulated buses.
At this time, there are no plans to institute articulated bus service in Brooklyn. If and when that changes, it will likely be posted on BusTalk. Until that happens, there is no point in speculating as to which depot(s) and route(s) would/should get them.
David
I picked the "B" Division. It is closes to my house the most of the "A" Division trains. The class was 64 train Opts. 31 went to the "A" and 33 went to the "B". I was #10 in the class and #3 in the "B" Division.
Robert
Cool. Maybe myself or Bill from Maspeth will break you in when the time comes.
By the way, who are your assigned school car TSS's?
Don't know yet. We are still in class room studys. I was out of class today becouse I had to goto Mac 2 for a revisted. I was in and within 10min do to that I did not have the right paper work. I have to go back on 10/31 with the right paper work. I also won't with two TSS's who had to get our new Passes. I took them 3 hour to get the passes. So I think we fine out on Wensday or Thurday. What lines are you two on and I will keep an eye out for both of you.
Robert
Don't know yet. We are still in class room studys. I was out of class today becouse I had to goto Mac 2 for a revisted. I was in and out within 10min do to that I did not have the right paper work. I have to go back on 10/31 with the right paper work. I also won't with two TSS's who had to get our new Passes. I took them 3 hour to get the passes. So I think we fine out on Wensday or Thurday. What lines are you two on and I will keep an eye out for both of you.
Robert
I work a late AM on the E. When students break in for the road, they will work all 3 tours. When you break in on the E, you will be on your midnite week. All the midnite E jobs do 3 round trips, but you are local all the way on the first 2 trips, which increases the running time, barring any GO's which may make you express. You will get lots of work gangs (flagging) on the midnite. By the time you do your road break in, we will be into a new pick (starts 11/5). Most AM & PM jobs will be 4 round trips with some (not many) doing 3.
The subject line says it all!! Use e-mail if you wish to discuss the RTO pick process or go to SubTalk. You're wasting precious space with this rather irrevelant thread about subway matters, and most importantly, you're wasting people's time!!
Mark
DEAL WITH IT!!!
We are talking to a BUS operator who got promoted to train operator on Monday and we are just helping HIM with the beginning of his training which can be rather imposing in the beginning.
And as far as wasting precious space, what was your message about other than being mean spirited? Have a heart.
Sorry, but must go with "Q5Merrick" here. This is a PERSONAL matter involving someone who is NO LONGER a Bus Operator.
David
Either way, both you and Merrick are wrong. Bustalk is here because bus subjects were frequently discussed on Subtalk, and it was requested that a new forum be brought in. It was. RJG has, to the best of my knowledge, never posted on Subtalk. He's been here, and every week he has given us some insight into how operations are really run at JG. Subtalk tolerates discussions that are somewhat off-topic, as should Bustalk. So unless you want to go back to the days of the entire board being wiped, sit down, shut up, and watch for your stop. None of us has ever been appointed netcop for the purpose of what can or can't be discussed. It wastes just as much space as Merrick's little missive did, and the entire thread on bus sex. Deal with it. If you're not interested in the subject posted about, don't read the message.
-Hank
That hit the nail on the head, Hank. I agree wholeheartedly -- slightly OT posts should be tolerated and even encouraged. It wastes no time; if a person is not interested in the subject, he/she should simply not read them!
Don't know if I'd call the bus sex thread a "waste of time" -- it was one of the more interesting discussions in here in a while!
Trevor, did they complete the work order on that bus yet?
Chris
Thank to all for you gey for you help. I do post on subtalk sometimes but not that offen. Sometime on subtalk post get lost in the shuffle becouse there are so many people there. I know that some of the Bustalker were Train Opt. at one time and just wanted some of there input as to what to look up for and why they went back to werever they came from.
Thank again to all.
Robert (B Divison T/O)
I will also help you out if I can give you infomation when I can. For those people who don't want to read my post, then DON'T read them plain and simple.
Robert (B Division T/O)
I totaly agree.
The only reason I don't goto Subtalk is a high PPD (posts per day) rating, but I'm very interested in subway topics.
A. I'm entitled to an opinion, just as Hank or anyone else is entitled to an opinion.
B. As Robert says in a subsequent post, he occasionally DOES post on SubTalk.
C. I have posted several times on SubTalk in response to posts that are off-topic, indicating that they don't belong there.
D. With all of the topic drift going on around here (and I'm not blaming anyone; it's the nature of the beast), how am I to know whether I'll be interested in what's being said unless I read the message? There have been many occasions where a subject line had NOTHING to do with what was being talked about in the accompanying message!
E. It's true that none of us (save David Pirmann, perhaps) has been appointed netcop around here. I'll take the job if nobody else wants it and if Mr. P. is willing to give it to me :-)
I'm not going to respond to messages on this topic anymore. I think the whole thing has wasted enough of everybody's time.
David
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I agree.
But the post was not a waste of time as Q5 said. Of all the posts that have been on bustalk and subtalk, there have been far worse posts and even some very frivolous ones. If the subway matter had been brought up in the beginning then I agree, it should have been in subtalk. But it began as a bus post so I believe that some slack should be cut our way. After all, it dealt with transit matters and not with other items such as baseball or neighborhoods or the horrible infighting that has popped up on subtalk recently.
And considering the response that fellow talkers have posted, while it may be a waste of time for Q5, it is not for the majority and that's what counts.
Allow me to explain my "waste of time" comment. Sometimes one cannot tell the content of a particular post based on the subject line alone. If a subject line looks interesting, then I'll read it to see what it's about. In this case, when I opened "Division Pick", I was unpleasantly surprised to see that it contained subway content. Yes, I felt as though my time was wasted. Had I known what it was all about, I would not have opened it. Period.
I'm sorry if I offended you "zman179", but that's how I felt. I maintain that non-bus issues should not appear on Bus Talk, it's that simple.
Mark
[Allow me to explain my "waste of time" comment. Sometimes one cannot tell the content of a particular post based on the subject line alone. If a subject line looks interesting, then I'll read it to see what it's about. In this case, when I opened "Division Pick", I was unpleasantly surprised to see that it contained subway content. Yes, I felt as though my time was wasted. Had I known what it was all about, I would not have opened it. Period.
I'm sorry if I offended you "zman179", but that's how I felt. I maintain that non-bus issues should not appear on Bus Talk, it's that simple.
Mark]
I don't want to offend either party, but we've all wasted far more time in writing and reading these off-topic posts *concerning* off-topic posts than we would have wasted in four months of making the odd "unpleasant discovery." Can't we love each other? I understand why many people don't post in SubTalk; it's the same reason I usually don't: there are too many posts, mine usually gets lost in the shuffle, it's impossible and time-consuming to follow, etc. So forgive the occasional intrusion.
Chris
No offense taken Mark. I understand that you are not interested in subway manners. I think that if something should stray off a topic that it should reflect in the thread. Once in a while(such as in this case) a bus thread will stray into rail matters or any other off-topic subject. In the event that that should happen, the thread should show it so that persons such as yourself who are not interested may bypass it. I'm sure that if the thread had stated that it was a rail matter that you would have tolerated it being an off-topic subject(which is ok once in a while as long as it started as a bus thread) but you would have also bypassed it because it does not interest you and none of this would have happened.
I agree with Mark totally also. Subway banter should remain on subtalk. If you must put some subway info here on bustalk, then simply insert in the subject heading in quotations: "subtalk content". This way people like Mark and myself won't feel like we're wasting our time looking at posts that have no bus relevance what's so ever. I don't mean to sound crude, but have some consideration for us bustalkers who are not that interested in what goes on in the subways.
BIG AL
"(and I'm not blaming anyone; it's the nature of the beast)"
What?
"Nature of the beast" means basically that this is the way things are -- as Tevi's post and my response prove! We started talking about how this is a bus board and not a train board, and have drifted into talking about what the phrase "nature of the beast means," which proved my point.
David
On BusTalk & SubTalk, many times the subject of a thread tends to get off the original topic. In this case, one of our posters, a bus operator is being promoted to train operator, and so the subject drifted over to subway talk. I fully understand your point however. It's a little like Subtalk when people talk about the #7 line. And that line is synonimous with Flushing & Shea Stadium; and Shea talk becomes the Mets; and the Mets becomes baseball; and baseball talk becomes.....it goes on and on. Bus Talk is pretty good in sticking to bus matters compared to SubTalk not sticking to subway matters, but I accept your guilty as charged verdict.
The largest problem with having this thread on BusTalk, was that many SubTalkers who would have been interested in the topic did not learn of it. If someone early on had moved it to SubTalk when T/O training was first discussed, those interested in trains only and those interested in busses only would both have been much happier.
Tom
Calm down! I'm sure there are more important things to worry about.
Robert - congratulations on getting your pick and on your promotion.
Bill from Maspeth - thanks for your insights on what Robert has to look forward to during training.
I dont think Ive ever regarded the postings from either of you as a waste of my time, and certainly not this one. It's a shame to learn that server space on BusTalk has become so 'precious' that an informative digression becomes so problematic. If this exchange were conducted via e-mail, Id have missed some interesting info.
I know that no one on SubTalk would see this thread as "irrelevant" and so this rightly belongs there. But Ive seen far worse posted on this board in terms of being off topic, or in some cases outright insulting. From a BusTalk perspective more than a few of us will be interested in how Robert makes his career transition from NYCT Bus to NYCT Subways.
Robert, youve provided us with lots of info in the past I look forward to reading your posts on SubTalk
Same here. Its a shame that people cannot accept other people's hard earnings and rewards because they are wasting "precious time" on BusTalk. That post earlier by Q5 was definitely a waste of his precious time.
BM34x
I brought up the topic just to let other people that I know what is going on with me and My Pormation. I know have know some people here be I doing know there E-mail Address. I just thought putting it here was faster becouse they all would read and then move on.
Sorry of any time I have wasted from anyone.
Robert
Peep this out, this is in prep for a Series 50 Conversion:
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
As of now this bus has the 6V-92TA engine still in. The 1990 and 1993 RTS's (except for 8565 and 8566) and the 1993 Orion V's (except for 291-294) will be repowered with the Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine. The tranny will be a Allison Reliabilt V731RH ATEC which is somewhat similar to the ZF Ecomats found in TA RTS #'s 5075-5124. There are a few buses being done right now including:
8526, 8555 from JG
8496 from 126 Street
8252 from HUD
8265 from MV
8078, 8085 from GH
191, 192, 243, and 248 form MCH (234 and 255 are done)
As those are completed, more will be sent as their old engines break down.
Mark
Why are the Orion 291-294 not being done?
Flx7595
I don't get it. What am I looking at? I don't see anything different in this picture.
BIG AL
If you notice behind the triangle rear window, there is a new pork-chop plate on the bus, and it's not the normal pork-chop plate either. It has similar vents to those on the 1993 and later RTS-06 models.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
The TA is currently spending a fortune placing new S50 engines on several hundered buses. On a much smaller scale the TA repowered several 1981 and 1983 RTS's as the Detroit Diesel 6V-71 engine ceased production in the early '90s. Among the first to receive a 6V-92 were 1209 and 1222(ENY), 1495(FP), 1529(JAM), and 1573(QV). Bus 3257 was the first 1983 I recall seeing with the 6V-92 as well. That bus was running out of JAM at the time.
Mark
I used to see PA3257 and PA1529 often and I always thought their original 6V-71 might have failed or had a serious problem and they were lucky enough to get 6V-92TA engines.
Wayne
Last year NJT removed the best series buses it ever had the 870 series. These buses were the greatest. most of the series was retired to a yard in Jersey City there are a number of them there. There are only 4 left 2058, 2061 that are with Academy and 2028 and 2297 that are with comunity lines. I wanted to know if there are anymore of these to get pictures of before they all become extinct for good. May they rest in peace.
Series 1500-1619
Series 2000-2519
Tone
Those Grumman Flxbles were the best sounding buses I've ever ridden on. RIP. Now a question, I know Flxble is a bus manufacturer. Grumman never was. What parts did the Grumman corp. provide Flxble with. Would it be safe to assume that Grumman designed the body of the bus? Slayer.
I believe they did design the body of the bus and later flixible took control back of the company. I really can't recall.
Tone
The 870 Series was designed by Rohr Flxible, then ownership of the design was transferred to Grumman Flxible, which then turned the design over to the Flxible Corporation which then redesigned some aspects of the bus and renamed it the METRO.
These buses exist in a series of letters to state changes in the design, Below I'm providing you with this series lettering with the years built:
1978 to Late 1979 - Rohr Flxible 870-A
Late 1979 to 1981 - Grumman Flxible 870-B
1982 - Grumman Flxible 870-C
Late 1982 to 1987 - Flxible METRO-A
1988 to Late 1991 - Flxible METRO-B
Late 1991 to 1992 - Flxible METRO-C
1993 to Early 1995 - Flxible METRO-D
Early 1995 to Doors Closed - Flxible METRO-E
When Flxible closed thier doors there was a design in prototype called "The Common Sense Bus" which would've been noted as the METRO-F. It was that of a Low Floor design.
As for NJ Transit equipment, there is also 2 Grumman Flxible 870-Bs still in service with Bergen Avenue IBOA (Saw then about two days ago in Journal Square), my belief is that they kept those two for back up reasons. So aside from Academy's 2052, 2058 & 2061 and Community Coach's 2028 and 2297, Bergen Avenue IBOA is the only other company with 870-Bs still kicking butt.
If you wish to ride a 1983 METRO-A from NJ Transit, United Brothers purchased three of them is currently using them on the "Fake" 88 Line up Kennedy Boulevard.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Thanx for the info! Slayer.
I don't think it was just the design that was transferred. I believe the entire bus manufacturing operation went from Rohr to Grumman, and then from Grumman to Flxible. Although Rohr was involved at the very beginning, when the first production 870's rolled out (and were delivered to Atlanta, GA), they were Grumman 870's. Connecticut Transit was the 2nd operator to receive Grumman 870's, and the 1st operator to receive the 35-foot model.
I was at Newark Airport yesterday, and there is a large supply of the 2000 series 870's running in substitute monorail service for Red and Tan (in Coach USA colors). Academy is also running substitute monorail buses, but I didn't notice any 2000's. I did see some Gilligs with an Academy label, but wasn't even sure if they were 35 or 40 footers. As I said in a prior post, Newark Airport will be a great place for a visit by busfans in the next few months!
The two Rohr/Flxibles ever built under the 870 design featured two diffrent hieghts and also had a slightly diffrent interior.
Of the one demo pic I have painted in what would later become SCRTDs paint scheme the bus has the name ROHR embossed on the left hand corner of the front defroster panel below the windshied This bus also lacked center marker lights.
The third ROHR rendition was something termed as the "MetroBus" prototype but almost nothing is known about this.
Also Rohr built 3 of the ill fated Rohr/Flxible LOW FLOOR "Transbus" that featured 4 count them 4 axles!
If anyone else has more info I would be happy to hear it.
Blue
Here is one of those Rohr Flxible 870s, Picture was donated to TransiTALK (So, I did not personally take this pic):
Enjoy!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Tone Bus former NJT 2202 is in service for Jet-Away Transportation of Brooklyn NY and does service bringing people from the parking lots of Belmont Racetrack to the grandstand and back. It was at Belmont about 2 weeks ago behind my favorite bus #52 one of the few remaining RTS Slope-Backs still around. As of 2 months ago there was another 870 at Belmont for Jet-Away. Check my previous posts for the info.
I still see the 1500 etc on the route 62 at metroPark Station.(Complete witrh the center of the roof Sutrak A/C units)
I suspect that what you see on the 62 route are the 1994 Flxibles in the 1750-1976 series. Those are generally what I have seen on that route. The older Grumman 870's did not have roof A/C units.
That is true mainly 1994 Flxible Metro-D's can be found on the 62. But every once on a blue moon you will see one of their Metro-B Suburbans on that line when no Metro-D's are available. The kind of Metro-D's that can be found on that route as well as the other Ironbound Garage routes are: 1841-1861, 1864-1867, 1874-1889, 1930-1937, 1961-1975. A couple Metro-D's they have, have brand new seats on them which are very comfortable unlike the original ones which were put on them. The new ones are completely cushioned, and the other ones do not have much cushion.
Jay
I feel your pain Grumman. I was going through the same thing exactly three years ago when Metro-Houston gave their rebuilt Grumman's the boot in favor of Neoplan Artics and and New Flyer D40LF. Back then, they were my favotite buses. From 1633's chassis leaning into the street, to 1675 broken frame heard rattling 8 blocks down in rush hour traffic, tp 1685's "whoosh" to 1668's wierd and crusty exhaust pipe. They had a beautiful and loud sound on the outside, but it was amazingly quaint and quiet on the inside. Metro officials called them dogs and denied they even existed, but they the greatset Flxibles to set wheels in this town.
Why has NYCT decided to not use air starters in their new buses such as the 6xxx Orions?
During the Gunn administration in the mid-1980s, NYCT(A) started converting its bus fleet to air starters. This was done to improve starting in cold weather. However, it was found that starting did not improve in cold weather, and the air starters were noisier than the electric starters all year. Thus, the decision was made in the late 1990s to cease buying air starters on new equipment.
David
Too bad. The air starters sounded cool and futuristic.
They sounded loud and annoying to those who live by route terminals.
David
What planet are you living on? Obviously, you've never lived anywhere close to a bus terminal that had late night operations.
-Hank
Well they are loud. It just seemed air starters were a bit quicker than electric, but I guess with all the noise they produce they are just not worth it. I just thought NYCT tried air starters to prolong the life of engine parts, but I guess they found there wasn't much of an advantage.
IMO, I would rather have traditional (electric) starters over a pneumatic because if the bus stalled (as it happened a couple of times), there would be air pressure for the brakes. If the driver kept trying to start the bus, eventually, the air would run out. It takes a lot more time to recharge the air tanks than it does to recharge the battery.
Correction: I meant to say NO air pressure in my last post.
I guess air starters have too many dis-advantages to be practical.
The air supply for the stater is separate from the air brakes. Usually with a air starter you get only three passes and if the engine does not cooperate your air starter dies but you may still have full air brake tanks. To fill the air starter only takes about 3 to 4 minutes on the road with a road truck. However a battery may need a lot more charging to get the engine rolling.
At my post one night at Mother Hale a woman who lived across the street from the depot once complained to me that every time a bus was started it woke up her baby. I told her we would push the buses to 145 Street and start them there so her baby can sleep!
Two quick ones:
1) Why is the MTA putting what appears to be 'blue light' in the digital signs on the back of the Orions and RTS buses? I saw several 95xx with it on the q17 and I believe Orion 548 in Stengel as well. The blue light, as opposed to the white light in the back digital sign, makes the green digital sign harder to read than before. However, some digital signs are simply digital with no 'light' in the back other than the digital light (Orion 293 and Orion 6120-6141 as examples)
2) Why is the bell for "Stop Requested" on the Orion 6xxx so low? I barely hear it? Some of the RTS' 49xx thru 51xx have this low tone too. Its not like the old days where you could annoy the drivers with pulling the cord like crazy...only 1 stop requested per stop. So why so low?
flx7595
The blue LEDs in the signs contrast well with the reflective yellow-green of the the sign, and they show up a little better. May eventually start seeing this on side route signs. Oh, the LEDs will last a decade or so, vs a few months for the flourescent tube it replaces.
-Hank
Actually the "blue light specials" make the rear destination signs easier to see during the day, believe it or not. Most of Jamaica and Queens Village's buses have them.
Mark
I read that these have been assigned to Stengel.
What line will they run on?
anyone know.
Much thanks.
Flx7595
Well According to a roster that was effective last friday, these buses were moved back to Yukon!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I though they couldn't fit into the depot building at Yukon. They'll probably be parked outside along Forest Hill Road with the tons of MCIs aleady there.
They don't fit the bus wash at Yukon. They can't get through the door at Castleton. Most likely, they'll never be cleaned and they'll sit outside of Castleton.
-Hank
Do they fit in MJQ?
Yes, these Vikings can fit inside of the Quill Depot!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Then why don't they just send them there?
Remember what I told you at Bus Fest, Though I love the TA very much, they just don't stand for common damn sense!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
LOL.
So will these just be sold off to NJT?
Ay---
MTA-Money Tossed At innocent bystanders.
Yeah right.
Probably, New Jersey Transit was looking at these bad boys when the TA first purchased them and considered buy some of thier own, they just may take these three, either them or Academy Tours (Academy is just a speculation since they buy all the TA left overs).
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Something just hit me. Can the Vikings under the overpasses on the FDR?
Hell No!
Regards,
I'm suprised that the MCI's can even fit under.
Do these bad boys actually see revenue service or just rack up miles going between depots and/or Atlantic Diesel.
Wayne
these bad boys havent seen a day of revenue service and the amazing thing is that the media hasnt heard about this fiasco.
And I thought SEPTA held the record for stupidity. Unless these are demos that New Flyer is forcing on the MTA as part of one of the contracts (C40LF or D60HF orders), I don't understand why the TA would be testing them, since they're getting a lot of MCI D4500 buses.
Sounds like they're racking up a lot of mileage just going from depot to depot and finding out if the bus fits thru the door or not, and if it does will it fit thru the wash?
If they were to go to Stengel, the route they'd run on would be the X51, the only express route out of Stengel.
My friend was telling me yesterday that the Vikings were at QV at 1 time because the drivers had to be trained on them. What he told me was that:
A: The buses are to tall and too long to fit in QV and
B: "They're ugly" according to the QV President
I don;t think QV will never..........EVER see MCI or Vikings in their depot. And you'd think that QV would go Artic someday, well think again. That won't happen either. Too big and they don't want them there. And soon Jamaica will be sending their buses to QV because the depot is gonna get rebuilt. According to Trevor's roster QV is gonna get 118-132 and they will give up 9252-9256 to Jamaica. From what I recall, CS buses 294 and 568 were at QV for testing and they failed there because they can't fit. If that was to happen, where would 118-132 go? They can't go to QV if they can't fit. Would they go to Jamaica and QV would get 9250-9251 and 9257 along with the ones that they have (9252-9256)? And will the Viking ever be put into service just as a test? The buses have been here since February and they haven;t picked up 1 passenger yet. If it's at CAS, it should.
X68#9359Gary- (saw her there the other day on Queens and Woodhaven Blvds).
There are three Orions at QV now (620, 623 and 630) so I guess they're fitting ok.
Mark
Maybe they would run them on the Q74 with the other suburbans....LOL.
Well, here's a pic of 623 that I took when she was at CAS:
Enjoy!
X68#623Gary
The suburbans don't see much time on the 74. I'm guessing that at most there are only 4 buses in service on the route.
Although it would be interesting to see a Viking on the 74. I saw #998 in that yard across the Flushing river from CS. I wonder what it was doing there. Maybe that's where they'll put the Vikings.
I was just kidding about any Vikings on the Q74. R36 wrote:"Although it would be interesting to see a Viking on the 74." Another silly thought of mine would be that a Viking would be sitting and riding inside a Q74. Apologies for my dry sense of humor.
Today at around 3:30pm I spotted 997 snaking up Park Avenue heading Northbound at 72nd Street.
Don't know what she was doing there so don't ask, but here destinations sign was scrolling the TA Test Pattern.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Was that a viking in the College Point Yard? It looked from the 7 train like an MCI coach.
Get me my vision checked. :)
Fkx7595
Yup, Viking. #998.
NYCT #8754 was hit by a passing truck while stopped at 33rd St & Fifth Ave on the M5 about 3:00 this afternoon. It didn't look too badly damaged, just scraped up on the rear left corner. The bus was apparently taken out of service and was still sitting there as of 3:15.
I am sure most of you know that Red & Tan has Grumman 870B's, running out of Newark Airport and are numbered in the 22xx numbers. Those are not the real numbers, if anyone wants a list of the Grumman 870B's, they bought just say so.
Jay
Yeah we know, but we are talking about 870Bs that are in NJ Transit or NJ Transt Contract revenue service!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Maybe this was already mentioned maybe not. There are only about 4 of Grumman 870B's still in service and are contractors. 22 Hillside Corp (Academy) still operates 2 of them 2058 and 2061. They also have one more which sits in Lot 1 2052 which I believe is no longer in service. Supposedly Community Coach still operates 1 Grumman 870B not sure of the number though. I remember when there were only 2 NJT operated ones, I know the last one to leave out of Ironbound was 2287, she made a shock appearance on the 62 and days later she was retired. If anyone knows of more Grumman 870B's in service and are still owned by NJT let me know, I would be very interested in knowing which one.
Jay
Still in service:
2052 (Saw her on the Willow Clinton today)
2058
2061
2028
2297
21 something for Bergen Avenue IBOA
21 something for Bergen Avenue IBOA
2277 for Lafayette & Greenville
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Are these the Grummans that TA got rid of after 5 yrs because they were to damn cheap to put the proper engine with proper frame(I for one still thinks that was the best designed bus the city ever brought:next to fishbowls and the Orions)
Yes these are, I'm glad someone agrees with me, I personally believe it's the TA's fault that the Grumman Flxible 870-B's failed. Tell me why NJ Transit can take 620 of them and have them run well into the new millennium with no frame or engine problems.
It was poor TA Preventative Maintenance, if we all remember, the TA was going throught some huge maintenance issues when the wonderful Flxibles hit the streets.
www.transitalk.com
Trevor Logan
You left out JBL also -For they did the same thing.
Are any of the Grummans still at JBL? I used to see them each morning deadheading along Hillside Avenue, but can't honestly say that I've seen them in over three months.
They are all sitting in a DOT storage lot in Brooklyn. Here is one of my shots:
ENJOY!
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
transitworld.org
Looks like those babies are getting scrapped. I drove by JBL's lot last week and peeked in. I saw no Flxibles at all and haven't seen any on the rode in several months now. BTW, even though nobody agrees with me, I swear those buses pictured are ex-NYCTA buses. If you look at the picture very carefully, you can see the painted over emergency lights on both sides of the front destination sign.
BIG AL
When the the DOT first got the 870's ,they had the emergency lights on the side of the destination signs.
When I first came on the job and trained out of Ulmer Park, the oldtimers told me that the 870 was one of the best buses they ever drove. It was fast,handled great and rode like a dream. The oldtimers blamed the TA for fucking the bus totally up with improper maintenance. It's too bad. Even today the 1980 870 in the museum fleet looks more state of the art than any of the newest RTS's.
10/13/2000
I was told that a small number of NYCTA Grumman Flixibles were a narrow width originally intended for Avenue B/East Bway bus lines. Since Ave B, folded the 870's I was told entered the pool of NYCTA Grumman 870's. Is this true? Can anyone verify this?
Bill "Newkirk"
Yes, there were a few 40 feet by 96 inch wide Grumman Flxible870's in the fleet. Like all other DOT Grumman Flxible 870's they had DD 8V-71N engines with the tan interior. I don't remember the exact number of them, but I know they were numbered in the 55X-56X range. I used to see them on Staten Island express routes.
Wayne
I believe some, if not all, of the 870's that were originally destined for Avenue B & E Bway wound up being purchased by Pioneer Valley Transit Authority in Springfield/Western Mass.
However these narrow 870 did ran under NYCTA paint.
I believe that the Flixible 870-B was the best bus that ever existed they served there time here in New Jersey Transit. And a lot of those buses are still in good condition at the auction lot in Jersey City. They should just have refurbished them once more and continue using them. They never had any structrual problems in NJT. They were runners, the TA just didn't take care of them properly.Who knows if the Ta took care of those buses they could have served them up to twenty years as well. But yes indeed they did prefrom for NJT. May The Flixible 870-b Rest In Peace.
Tone
From the time of the "NYCTA Grumman 870" crisis I always was sure that the NYCTA was trying to blame Grumman for their poor maintainance practices. While the A-frame was obviously Grumman's problem - but after this was addressed and corrected the TA tried their best to make Grumman the scapegoat when the real story was their maintainance was less than acceptable. I think it was so obvious since the DOT privates and MSBA still operated theirs and as Trevor said NJT managed to operate 620 former TA/OA Grumman 870's for years after the TA declared them unfit for service. The only difference between the TA/OA Grumman 870 and DOT private/MSBA was the TA buses had DD 6V-71N engines and the MSBA/DOT privates buses had DD 8V-71N engines.
Wayne
Orion a good bus?????
The NYCTA/MaBSTOA/PA Grummans as most of the early 870s were great looking but mechanical nightmares.
Here in LA the fan favs (When MTA s running not on strike as its now day 26 of the LAMTA strike) the Flxble metros with the Cummins L10 are the hands down fav.
Blue
Since I'm not a diesel mechanic I'm in no position to comment on the Grumman 870 (or any bus) from a mechanical standpoint. However, in my earlier post my point was the the NYCTA was trying to say that the Grumman Flxible 870 was a lemon. Let's say for sake of arugment that the Grumman 870 was lemon. How is it that the DOT privates and MSBA were able to operate their 870's? Anyone in the NYC area knows well that MSBA and Queen/Steinway Transit got a whole lot out of their 870's. MSBA even had a bunch of Flxible Metros too. Also - the fact the most of the NYCTA/MABSTOA buses (620 out of a fleet of 851) went to NJTransit and I've never heard a bad word about them since.
To me this indicates that the NYCTA was trying to make Grumman the scapegoat when the fact is their maintainance was subpar.
Wayne
Connecticut Transit, which was the 2nd property to receive the Grumman 870's (after Atlanta), had considerable problems with the buses during their lives. Nevertheless, some of them did run for over 12 years. However, when CT Transit got many new buses in 1990 and 1992, the 870's were retired before many older fishbowls. Bottom line - the pre-Metro Grumman/Flxible 870's tended to have more problems than most buses. My recollection is that the NYTA problem was not so much poor maintenance by the TA, but that David Gunn hated those buses and looked to any excuse to complain about them and, eventually, stop using them.
Very true! David Gunn was not pro-Grumman at all, he was pushing for the GM RTS and this is mainly why we have so many damn RTS's now! I think this was stupid and that the TA's reputation has been greatly tarnished with the operation of the 620 ex-NYCTA/MaBSTOA 870's. To me the only good thing that came out of this fiasco was the rebuilding of the GM fishbowls. Those were some fine machines and having their lives extended was a pretty nice idea. I guess Gunn being pro-GM, was this one of the reasons why the Rohr Flxible's in the 9xxx series and others like the 77xx series were not remaned?
Peace
DaShawn Pretlow
www.transitworld.org
Plus the fact that the 7500-7900's and 900's series Flexibles were retired after only 15yrs (were as the Fishbowls were at least 20-25yrs when retired .
Plus the fact that the 7500-7900's and 9000's series Flexibles were retired after only 15yrs (were as the Fishbowls were at least 20-25yrs when retired .
Does anyone know when and/or why the following were scrapped? Bus # 8398, 8399, 8567.
they were not scrapped. they cant be fueled at gleason so nyct awaits converting them to diesal or hybrid. this question was previosly answered by trevor.
JUST GOT BACK FROM VEGAS AND LOST,BUT GOT ON THERE TRANSIT BUSES AND THESES BUSES ARE CLEAN AND TELL YOU EVERY STOP AND ALSO ONTHE MAIN ROUTES THEY RUN THE DOUBLE BUSES,THE ONES THAT ARE TOGETHER IN THE MIDDLE AND NO TAXIS CUT THEM OFF,WHAT A SYSTEM.
Just for the record, the transit operator you experienced in Las Vegas was CAT. At its web site says, "Citizens Area Transit or CAT is a service of the Regional Transportation Commission of Clark County (RTC). CAT provides public bus transportation for the Las Vegas Valley, Henderson, Boulder City, Laughlin and Mesquite." Las Vegas Transit was the private operator many years back, before CAT began operating.
I was in Las Vegas a little more than a year ago, and did find the CAT operation very good, with a nice variety of equipment, including the artics you mention. The color scheme of the buses (turquoise and rose) is very pleasing to the eyes, in my opinion. Similar in color to Valley Metro in Phoenix.
CAT is a thousand times better than Las Vegas Transit ever thought of being. LVT was actually part of Gray Line of Southern Nevada. They had crap for equipment, it was all worn out and filthy. And their drivers were the surliest, rudest, bunch of bastards I have ever dealt with (and I have been a bus driver for 27 years). They went out of their way to be rude to their passengers. They were all a bunch of old farts that were burned out driving buses. I have had my bad days myself, but I would NEVER go to the extreme rude attitudes that I saw displayed by almost every one of Gray Line/LVT's drivers. It was a refreshing thing to see CAT come around in the early 1990's.
CAT, on the other hand has decent equipment, they keep it clean, and they have quite a few more routes....as well as a darn nice staff both on and off their buses.
I have the entire list..if anyone wants.I will post them .a long list
Steve
Part of the list would have been:
B24 via 47th Avenue between 44th and 48th Street in both directions.
I got two pictures of B24 buses near IS 125. (47th Avenue between 46th and 47th Streets)
that is a school run
I thought school was closed on Columbus day!
There was a street fair on Greenpoint Avenue between 48th and 44th Streets. That's why the 24s were going via 47 Av.
oh ok,,I have the entire parade activity in Manhattan,,some interesting stuff
8479: Saw her making a left from Flatbush onto Fulton. I guess she was heading to ENY base shop. The rear route sign was removed.
9603: After watching 8479 full yellow rear ad, I hop aboard 9603 for a quick trip through Fulton Mall, this bus was shaking throughout. What's the deal with that?
4420: When I got off @ Boro Hall, I noticed that 4420 had a new paint job and a new rear sign put in. Looked good.
3009: Did not see her on the active bus roster. Is she on her way to bus heaven?
M6#8479Mike
B26#9603Mike
B45#4420Mike
B42#3009Mike
Since 9603 is a Fresh Pond bus, the shaking is to be expected.
I was on 9546 on the Q17 a few weeks ago and boy was there a whole lotta shakin goin on-LOL! 8479 is a HP Bus- if you saw her in Brooklyn, then ENY was the destination where she was headed. 4420- I guess FLA is gonna keep their 4400s around for a while. 3009-maybe on her way out or to the museum?! 9603 I haven't been on many FP Novas but from what I heard, I'm not missing anything spectacular. Speaking of FP, On Sunday night at Woodhaven Blvd and Metropolitan Ave, I saw bus 3921 on the Q54-which sounded sluggish.
See my next post about a Triboro Coach Bus that should go to the scrapper-immediately.
Q17#9536Gary
Q54#9153Gary
Yesterday, I got off 410 bus on the Q66 at 51 St and Northern Blvd. The time was 640. No Q18 Buses were in sight. Then at 647, going Astoria Bound (I was going Maspeth bound), I saw 3046, an Express Coach that's gonna get really badly messed up. I was waiting and waiting until about 705. I was about to give up when finally, a Q18 shows up. It was 711 and this is the worst piece of junk that I ever rode. First of all, the "7" in the number looks totally different than the "11." Secondly, the sign was busted. Above the sign on the side interior, is all taped up. Under the number board on the interior of the bus is also taped up-and it's badly taped. The bus wasn't too crowded-a full seated load. Then the bus took off from Northern-slow as a turtle. The best part was when we were gonna stop. I heard 5 hesitations in the engine(vrom-vroom-vroom-vroom-vroom-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee (the brakes)). When she was hesitating, she was also jolting. My question is why would a piece of "crap" like this still be on the road? Bring back 665 or even the 2100s. Speaking of the 2100s, what will happen to them? Will they get retired? It'll be kinda dum to retire a bus that's only 6 years old-reconvert them to diesel or hybrid and use them in passenger service-Triboro Coach sure hell could use it!
I have a 2nd story to tell about Triboro Coach: It was a few years ago when 648 was running on the Q53 frequently. I rode this "thing" from 116 St to Woodside and I thought we were gonna be stuck 5 times during this trip. The engine was hesitating to pick up speed then a thump when the engine got too reved up. While waiting for the lights on Cross Bay Blvd/Woodhaven Blvd the bus sounded like she was gonna die out right in the middle of the blvd. The bus had a full seated load and it took forever for this bus to get up to Woodside-about 90 minutes compared to the usual 55 minutes. My friend was praying that it wouldn't konk out, and somehow, someway, it made it to Woodside. You would think after that horrendous trip, that the driver would turn or exchange the bus- NOPE! It picked up passengers again to go back down to Rockaway. I was very shocked to see that. I only rode that bus 1 or 2 other times after that day, then she got retired-Thank God. But I'll never forget that day I rode 648 on the Q53-Ughhh! Thank God for the TMC'S and the Orions-only on the Q53. They should NOT be put on a line like the Q18 or the Q23 but I see them often over there. 1 more little info: I saw 2065 on the Q29 yesterday and when she turned onto Woodhaven Blvd from Queens Blvd, she looked like she was gonna tip over cause when she made the right turn, the whole bus seemed like she went to the left. Triboro- the new paintjobs on the buses you'd think they're improving, but I think they're getting much worse.
I don't even want to represent a TCC Bus they're such a mess!
R36Gary
I'd LOVE to ride some of the junk you all have in NYC.
Among some of the things Houston's RTS buses do...
Roar, growl, or groan at high speeds. This really sounds good when coupled with the regular RTS scream.
Hesitate, about four times, sometimes more.
Make a buzzsaw sound when de-accelerating. This was one of my favorite things.
Hesitate on pickup by the engine seeming to stall out. If the bus slowed down during this hesitation period, it'd jerk violently about six times.
Triple hesitation on pickup. RTS 2128 may have new (for this particular bus anyways, they're obviously used) aluminum rims, but the bus makes this wierd sound and hesitates on pick-up three or more times. It kinda sounds like a smurf straining to do something. That's the best way I can describe it.
But what I've been hearing from you NYC folk, you've got the bset collection of junk around. I've got to hurry out there before someone wisens up and puts them in their place (the shredder).
Just saw on the 11 o'clock news on Channel 4 that an Ikarus artic broke down right on the tracks on Randolph Rd. and Nebel Street and a CSX train plowed right into the middle of it splitting it in two. Luckily, the bus was out of service and nobody was on it. The driver had gotten off the bus and the train operator hit the emergency brakes, but couldn't stop in time. I couldn't tell what number the bus was, definitely a 5200 series, but there was a glare from the camera light. The front half of the bus looked fine, but I'm sure the back half is obliterated. I could see the crew taking pieces of the articulated part and putting it in the back of a pickup truck. It may be worth a trip over to the Rockville bus lot to see if it is out there. Such a shame, so close to the bus lot and of all things, it gets smashed by a train.
Channel 5, due to the baseball game, had a later newscast and did a better report and showed the two halves of the bus. It was bus 5237. The back is in pretty bad shape and is completely separated from the front. Unless they can work a miracle and somehow reattach the two parts, looks like one less artic on the road.
That is a shame. For those who missed the news last night, they ran a photo of the bus in the Metro section of today's Post.
I wonder how feasible it would be to build a back wall to the front part of the coach and just run it as a standard bus?
Chris
[I wonder how feasible it would be to build a back wall to the front part of the coach and just run it as a standard bus?]
That means you'd have to put an engine in the front section, too. For most artics, the engine is in the back section.
That added to the fact that when you take a 60-foot artic split in two, converting the front section to a standard bus, it'd be 30 feet long. Then you'd have to add a back door somewhere (optional). I don't think it is going to be easy or feasible.
If the engine's in the back, how does it transmit power to the drive wheels in the front part? How can there be a driveshaft on an articulated vehicle?
Chris
It doesn't drive the wheels on the front part. The drive axle is the one in the rear unit. So, normal length drive shaft.
I don't know exactly how it works, but the "joint" between the sections has an anti-jackknifing device to prevent such buses from jackknifing (bending to excess).
The older M.A.N. articulated buses (such as Westchester County's) had the engine under the floor in the front unit and those did have the drive axle in the rear of the front unit. The rear sections was basically a trailer floating in the breeze behind the power unit.
So, why are there 4 wheels in the front section of the bus if the enigine doesn't operate them?
It's a matter of holding up the weight of the rear of the front section, the articulated joint, etc. Notice on the NFI D60's there are also dual tires on the rear axle as well.
The older M.A.N. articulated buses, with the engine under the floor in the forward section, had the drive axle up front. The trailer had only single wheels on its axle (which was steerable, by the way).
I'm not sure how the GM TA60102 artic is set up -- but I am sure "gmartic" can help you firsthand on that bus.
I think the GMDD artic has the drive axle at the rear which would make it a pusher.
Wayne
Which is why I think an artic body is the absolutely perfect application for hybrid technology. You can put a pancake motor at each wheel.
-Hank
The motors in the middle of the MANs now makes sense as I do see exhaust coming from the ones here in DC, whereas the Ikarus/NABI models have it coming from the back. That's probably similar to how the articulated Tourmobiles operate here as well. I don't even know the company that makes those things, but they seem to be holding up fairly well.
Its always possible that the damaged WMATA one can be replaced. I remember taking a tour of a maintenance facility in Baltimore and they were in the process of repairing a NABI artic. The whole middle was missing at the time and there were mecanics working on welding the pieces back together. Not sure of the extent of the damage, but most likely didn't get split in half by a train.
Seeing that the middle is so vulnerable to damage, why do they put seats there? A car broadsiding the bus at that point could do a lot of damage to it as well, so why take a chance just to get a few more seats in it?
Those Tourmobile vehicles were made out here in California by Specialty Vehicle Manufacturing Corporation (Downey, CA). I remember seeing them being built a few years back -- the thing I really wonder is, how did they get them back to DC??? As SVMC's plant is on the BNSF mainline out of Los Angeles, I'd guess they were shipped via rail.
The older ones that were over at Arlington Cemetary years ago were actually former Universal Studios Hollywood trams. Those I know were trucked back to DC.
Tourmobile used to be owned by the same company that owned US-H (MCA Corporation), as when I lived inthat area in 1981-1982, I applied for work with them, and it had Tourmobile AND Universal Studios on the application!!
Thanks for that history! I didn't realize that they had another life, especially all the way in CA. They probably did ship them out here via rail, as driving those things cross country would be a BIG hassle. Although, it would be funny to see a convoy of those on the highway coming out here. They are still up and running all over DC and Arlington Cemetery. Their main competition comes from these ugly Orange and Green Old Town Trolley's that are similar to what DC wants to use as a shuttle through the CBD.
These Old Town Trolleys are made of wood and run on propane and once in a great while burst in flames. I'll stick to the Tourmobiles or just walk!
Forget the Tourmobile. Walk! As for the trolleys around the CBD, I like the idea. While in good weather, I wouldn't use it, but in cold or incliment weather or when I don't feel like walking, taking one of those trolleys would be fine with me. It works well in Bethesda with Ride-On route 92, I'm not sure how the 28 is doing and it works in other cities (Dallas and Philadelphia).
I still don't trust those propane motors. Two or three Old Town Trolleys in recent memory have caught fire, and I think two propane-powered parking-lot shuttles at National Airport also caught fire within the last five years.
The CBD trolley is a nice idea, though; it ought to work especially well for tourists, in terms of linking the Mall and downtown. I just keep wishing, however, that they'd refurbish some old PCC trolleys (SEPTA still has a few that they're auctioning off, I think), construct a two-mile or so rail loop around the CBD, and use those. Oh, well ... dream on!
Chris
Those trolley bus things would be good to get the tourists around and maybe help some of the workers downtown get around. I would definitely consider using them as well. It certainly is better than nothing. I've heard that the Phlash in Philly is very popular. With the right marketing and reliable service, it could work here too.
I'm not sure why anyone would want to operate anything, especially something made of wood, out of something so precarious as propane.
Community Transit (Snohomish County, just north of Seattle, Washington) had the same exact thing happen to a brand-new NFI D60 a few years ago. For some reason, a bus deadheading back to the yard in the area of Everett got stuck on the tracks and a BN freight train did the honors. Again, the driver was smart enough to abandon ship, but the train was moving too fast and rounding a bend, so was not ablt to stop. (It takes a freight train moving 40 miles an hour a couple miles to stop even with emergency braking. There's simply just that much weight.)
Yeah, I can imagine that it would take a long time to stop one of those guys. I never heard how long the bus was stranded before the train came by. Its too bad that there can't be some kind of signal to alert the engineer that a vehicle is on the tracks so that it can somehow react.
A few of us at work today were joking that they should do something with the front of that bus. My vote was to turn it into an open air trolley, since DC is trying to implement something like that in the CBD. I have a feeling its a total loss though.
Is the engine compartment in the tail end or is there some sort of motor in the middle as well?
First of all, the TA may of had bad maintenance back in the early 1980's, but it cannot be denied the Grumman model 870's had severe structural defects. I'll give you a brief rundown of 870 history here in Houston.
In 1979, the MTA of Harris County started operations taking over HouTran and also it's enormous and glaring problems. Besides inheriting a fleet of 18 year old New Looks and shoddy RTS-II equipment, Metro only had one maintenance facility.
Well, to ease problems, they started with the basics, buses. They put out a 326 order of Grumman-Flxible 870's. They were to be numbered 800-1125. They arrived throughout 1979 painted in Metro's old marron and white scheme. 855 burned and had to be repalced by 1126, but that's only a minor problem.
The 870's had severe structural defects and other problems I can't recall at this time. One bus was tested on a run downtown and was found to have over 100 infractions. Well, Metro trying to clean up the image of it's predecessors gave 226 of the 870's the boot. The rest were going back to be overhauled.
Two years before the mas retirement took place, Metro already put into effect a plan to replace the 870's. They ordered the first 10 RTS buses in 1981 and the last came in the summer of 1983, along with the newly rebuilt 870's.
Things went smoothly from there on. The New Looks were rehabbed and retired at the ripe old age of 30, the RTS-II's were retrofitted with roof mounted Sutrac A/C units and were retired in 1992.
Metro retired all of the 870's in 1996, but then brought about 35 back into service. They were in pretty poor shape. You could actually hear them before you saw them, motor wise and rattling wise. You could hear them rattling blocks away in rush hour traffic. The chassis leaned into the streets and they were always breaking down. At least 1 1600 per week on the side of the road with the back open. You can't attribute this to poor maintenance because Metro has some of the best mechanics in the country.
The A/C would either fail or leak, the windows would get stuck, the rattling was so loud you couldn't hold a decent conversation and the rear panels were always hanging off. Despite this, they were my favorite buses back in 1997. I guess I'm a sucker for buses past their prime.
It's pretty sad that these buses were built before I was even born and their trevails were so well documented that I could basically do a whole report on them. Hell, even my English teacher knew about the Grummans. Houston media made a big deal out of the whole fiasco.
So in closing, the 870 was pretty much a sub-par bus. It was mildly fast, but nowhere near one of our 2200 series Flxible Metros or a New Flyer. The ride was great while it lasted but they are pretty much where they belong. Of course, I'm not saying if Metro put the 870s back in service I wouldn't ride them, but really, they were dogs.
Seems that the 870's only had the frame problem in a major scale with the 40 footers. The only system in PA (Johnstown) that had 870's had 35 footers and had no structural problems with them.
As a comparison, the AMG's that PAT in Pittsburgh had had similar frame problems but only in the 40 footers. The 35 footers had minimal problems and were, in many cases, run harder than the 40 footers were.
Seems to me that they under-designed the frames for the 40 footers in both cases as the 35 footers, that use the same frame, didn't seem to have much of a problem.
RDChilds
And didn't the same sort of thing happen with the first-generation GM New Looks, the TDH5301's and TDH4517's?? Seems like you would see a LOT of the 40-footers with sagging front ends, and major cracks just behind the rear axles; I don't ever recall this being a problem on the 35-footers.
The front end sagging on the first-generation GM New Looks was attributed to the longer standee windows in the front end. Notice how on the second-generation (5303/5304 and 4518/4519) and newer, the standee windows were a bit shorter, staring over the front windows instead of going almost over the doors.
There is 2 main factors in the front end sagging on any fishbowl. When they are involved in any type of front end accident, 99 percent of any body men out there only fix what is obvious. In the right hand corner there is a brace that has 10 rivets. After an accident most of the time the rivets look OK. From repairing MANY, MANY accidents.. I know from experience that these rivets dont get replaced which allows the entire right side to start moving, even when the bus is not moving but people are getting on. The second main reason works alot in conjunction with the first. Air ride suspension is held in place with radius rods. When the bushings wear out they are a BITCH to replace so many companys just let them go till they get so bad they get loud. So with the bushings worn out all the shock of the road goes to the weakest link which is the area in the right front upper corner with the bad body work that was done. I have had buses that the rivets looked new but upon inspection time they were obviously bad from the backside.
The rear end problems on the 40' had GM trying a few different designs to fix the cracking. The worst one was the steel bulkheads in the rear as they didnt absorb as much as aluminum. They tried steel and aluminum enforcement plates between the rear axle and the engine bulkhead. That seemed to help alot. BUT>>> I believe after the engine cradle hanger mounts were changed to the current rubber filled design, that absorbed alot of the shock from the roads also. I believe the mounts were changed with the late 05's and 21's. Once again... you look closely at any fishbowl that has the tell tell signs of rear bulkhead problems and mark my words...... RADIUS ROD BUSHINGS!!! Think about all the movement that a front or rear axle sees everyday. If everything isnt working the way it was designed, something has to give. Its called the weakest link. And please... I have worked on Fishbowls almost exclusively since I was about 15, There isnt much I havent done to one.
Yep, always loved driving one with worn radius rod bushings.....step on the throttle, and it felt okay. Let go of the throttle and the rear end of the bus would swing over a few inches.
And then when you write a bus up saying the "Radius Rod Bushings are bad" the shop foremen look at you like you are from another planet. (Of course, you know well the ones we dealt with at RTA....)
I hear and understand what you're saying. However, my facts in my earlier post support the fact the the NYCTA tried to blame Grumman for their lack of care and confidence. The NYCTA buses clearly proved to be quite useful for NJ Transit, Queen City Metro and others. Grumman Flxible should've sued the TA for slander.
Wayne
YOU GO BOY!
I don't care what anyone says, the 870 and METRO ADB Bus by Rohr-Grumman-Flxible will always be #1 on my list.
The buses is graceful, comfortable, and responsive. And this is from a everyday experience of operating them.
And to date, No one has been able to copy or come near to the wonderful lean that the 870 and METRO buses do on turns.
Regards,
Trevor Logan.
www.transitalk.com
www.nyctransitfamily.net
Command's 1994 TMC RTS (CNG) buses lean more than any bus i have ever been on including any 870 or METRO. Some drivers will not drive them because they lean so much.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
transitworld.org
Yeah, but that's only because the bus is top heavy, i'm talking about natural lean without top heaviness. If you look at a regular RTS, they have almost no lean factor unless it does a extremely sharp turn at a fast speed.
No one can match the Flxible "NATURAL" lean.
Regards,
Im talking about lean, top heavy or not. The 1994 Command RTS lean more than any other bus i have ever been on. BTW I am a big Flxible METRO-B fan so you know im not trying to bring a storm on your sunny day.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
Transit World
I know man LOL! I'm just speaking in laws of physics!
Regards,
Actually, the leaning that Flxible products did/do is not so much that the buses are top-heavy, but that Flxible placed the air bags (suspension bellows) closer together from side-to-side than other manufacturers did.
Trevor, whenever you get out here to sunny Southern California........
We will send 7728 to pick you up at the airport. You will love to drives this Grumman as it is definately the FASTEST Grumman you have ever driven. The leans are incredible also! The problems with the original Grummans seem to have been corrected on the Metros.
Thanks Scott,
I hope to hit the LA area close to New Years, I hope 7728 is ready for me because I'm gonna wear that child out, her and the GMDD Articulated you got from Mississauga.
Tall Order: I want to get some real good shot in places with nice backgrounds. Also I need you to tell me how long it takes to get the San Francisco and Oakland areas because while I'm there I want to go to those two cities and tare it up!
Regards,
If you drive from the LA area to SF bay area, without speeding, you can make it in 6.5 to 7 hours.
If you fly, one hour.
If you take Greyhound, anywhere from 8 to 14 hours depending on schedule.
If you use Amtrak, just throw your watch away.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I think I'll fly!
Regards,
I enjoyed driving the Flxible Metro's at the University of Md. They handled extremely well. They were especially fun when I and one other bus had to take the entire Univ. of Md. football team from their hotel to the stadium via police escort. I thought for sure we were going to tip completely over when I had to make a hard right turn at 25mph with 40+ football players weighing way over 200 pounds. I just grabbed on to the wheel really tight and prayed that I could make that turn. Of course I couldn't keep up with the police as the bus struggled to get up this big hill on campus and the police just kept right on going, so I just blew through all the stop signs anyways. : )
7728 is Da' Bomb if you are a Grumman fan.
I think I have rode that bus under Mr.Pinks ownership many many miles than I rode the 870s post rehab in service here in LA.
It is a fun bus for an ADB and hope to see you out here when you come visit.
I have some shots for you of former RTD 870 running as LAPD "IBARS" to further entice you to come out to visit.
Blue
I beg to differ about a bus leaning on a turn, but older MCI's, until the 1981 MC-9's, did some pretty hard leaning when you cornered them. The 1982 and newer MC-9's had larger air bags in the rear so the leaning was reduced.
Having driven a Grumman 870 in my career, I give them a vote of confidence. They handled VERY well, seemed to be fast, and they are not a bad looking bus (no matter which variation, 870, Metro, etc.)
Also law of phsyics, the MC-9 leans due to top heaviness, even the 1987-88 MCI MC-9Bs we have a NJT lean pretty hard, but that's due to width and height, in which leads to that lean!
Regards,
[Grumman Flxible should've sued the TA for slander.]
I don't remember all the details, but the TA did, in fact, sue Grumman. I believe Grumman filed a counter-suit. I forget whether the case was decided in the TA's favor or whether, immediately prior to trial, the case was settled in Grumman's favor.
Whoops! I meant to say that I forget whether the case was decided in the TA's favor or whether, immediately prior to trial, the case was settled in the TA's favor. The bottom line is that the TA won and Grumman lost.
Information on TransiTalk's depot by depot bus roster shows the following due to the pending arrival of year 2000 MCI order movements:
2705-2746 (42) to YUK
2747-2785 (39) to CAS
2786-2804 (19) to UP
9285-9294 (10) UP to MJQ
9257 (1) UP to JAM
4873, 4875-4877 (4)UP to MJQ
4878-4881, 4884, 4886 (6) UP to JAM
7038-7043 (6) UP to JAM
7044-7049 (6) UP to MJQ
115-117 (3) YUK to CS
118-132 (15) YUK to QV
9252-9256 (5) QV to JAM
As you can see, after all this is said and done, nearly every depot, including QV will have nearly 100% new or late model express buses while Jamaica & MJQ depot will still only be slightly above 50%. While it is a slight improvement for S.E. Queens riders, it is nothing to brag about since half of Jamaica's 1985 express buses are being replaced by buses that are only 2 years newer and the other half are being replaced by buses that are technically older!
BIG AL
No argument here. Obviously, eastern Queens has better political influence (and community boards) than south Queens.
Not only that, but Quill depot should get 4800's & the 7000 rebuilds exclusively. Why? Because since those buses never leave Manhattan, and obviously they get super low mileage, (can tank up once a week!) it is a slap in the face to Jamaica that Quill has any 9200 series coaches at all. Of course, we all know that this town is Manhattan oriented.
I agree that the TA treats Jamaica depot as a stepchild, giving it the oldest equipment, and what not, but that is one of my favorite bus depots. I know drivers like the new stuff, but where else in the city can you see express vintage equipment? I know that the 17XX's will be gone soon, so Jamica bear with it for a little more. Us 1980's bus fans look up to you guys. Thanx for your trouble!
Those 1700s will be around in another way. Fr4esh Pond will grab the engines in a second once they are scrapped.
What makes you think Fresh Pond has first dibs on those engines? That is strictly a management decision which depot, if any should get them. They will probably go to ENY central maintainence facility to be used for any bus that comes in needing an engine. Remember, most of these engines are almost 20 years old, so unless they have had a major rebuild, they probably won't be used at all. Another point, buses older than 10 years are no longer getting engine replacements period. And the 10 and 7 year old buses are getting new engines installed in them similar to what the Nova's have right now.
BIG AL
At Fresh Pond, 4709 and 4723 are o/s with the fareboxes removed awaiting transfer to ENY for engine replacement. They are not scrapped because all logos are still on the buses. Unfortunately, 4098 is next to go to Nimco. All logos are scrapped off and ENY took the engine.
Sounds like the 4600-4899 series TMC buses are the only old buses that are still getting engine replacements when needed. Anything older (GMC) gets scrapped. And the 8000-8500 series are getting new engines & transmissions all together.
BIG AL
Thank you very much. I was thinking the same thing that Quill should really only get the 4800's and 7000's for now, but I did not want to offend any Quill fans out there so I didn't put it in my post. I don't even know why their lines are express anyway, since they don't leave Manhattan. A while back ago I made a post saying something to the effect that knowing T/A, when all those new buses arrive, they will send Jamaica the older express buses from Ulmer Park and send the Nova's someplace else. I think I said I would bet a paycheck. Looks like I would have won.
Big AL
Well, that is the arrangement for now. Of course, the asssignment is subject to change. What will NOT change is the fact that Jamaica will get shafted as usual.
Q85#8958 Mark
Not to put down Transittalk but this plan makes no sense!
Ulmer Park gains 19 MCI busses and looses 33 RTS & NOVA Coaches????
They're short busses as it is!
These numbers do not add up!!
Shaun
Hi guys.
I've been spotting a lot of New Flyers here in State College refuling at CATA'S Garage. Everytime I 've seen one I never have my camera with me. I do see them and they are coming.
Keep me imformed
Ken.
NYCT NF #955 is now at Atlantic Diesel on Long Island amongst others. Saw it there the other day. Also RTS 7514 from UP is there.
My question is that why didn't Flxible jump on the "T" drive bandwagon? As the newer manufacturers featured the "T" drive, wouldn't the "V" series transmissions be more of a maintenance headache? If I owned a of buses, I would prefer "T" drive over "V" drive. If it was possible, I would install the configuration in fishbowls.
My question is that why didn't Flxible jump on the "T" drive bandwagon? As the newer manufacturers featured the "T" drive, wouldn't the "V" series transmissions be more of a maintenance headache? If I owned a fleet of buses, I would prefer "T" drive over "V" drive. If it was possible, I would install the configuration in fishbowls.
Originally Flxible transits were T drive back in the early-mid 60's.
This is my opinion, but T drives I feel are actually harder to work on, especially the transmission.
They did install the T drive in a fishbowl design. In the Classics towards the end, Nova was using T drive in the New Look design Classic coach. PAT in Pittsburgh had and still has alot of problems with them primarily with snapping radius rods and driveshafts from the steep angle and stress from shoving a T drive in a coach designed for a V drive.
RDChilds
Well why didn't I do this sooner? I caught the A and took it for a fast trip up to 175th street, and got on the 171 bus.
The entrance is right on the bridge, so there's no bottlenecks to deal with like Lincoln tunnel.
Then we had a very fast ride down route 4. What a beautiful road. A state highway. I wish we had state highways on Long Island!!
The bus hardly made any stops. We passed two other malls. Riverside Square, while looked quite upscale. Most people got off at Bergen Mall, which looked pretty downscale.
Before I knew it GS Plaza came up, only a little more than 20 minutes from when I left the terminal.
The walk to the mall was a bit of a trek. Due to contruction there was limited sidewalks. So I had to walk a bit back to the new overpass.
This was a BIG overpass, and then once I got off I had to walk somemore because the little bridge over the creek was closed. It's about an 8 minute walk. Still though, the 171 is clearly the best way to Garden State Plaza.
Going back the bus stop was closer, because I didn't have to cross route 4. Another fast ride back. Even though one has to walk, taking the 171 is a definate advantage. It ran on time. Also, because the bus stop is not in the parking lot, it does not involved in mall traffic.
Only if the weather is poor, will I not take the 171. The 163 is too crowded, slow, and has frequent stops. Also the 171 uses the quicker Flxible buses. But you knew I'd have to make up for this great bus ride with a horrible LI Bus ride home.
Going back home I had more trouble with the N20/21. Yesterday I waited for a phantom 6:02pm bus out of Glen Cove that never came. Today more trouble.
I was leasurely walking up to the bus stop for the 6:12pm out of Flushing. It was around 6pm. All the sudden I see an N20 (5:54pm late) coming up Roosevelt. I walked fast. Real fast. And I was this close. I was at the bus as it was picking up it's last passenger (remarkably, it wasn't crowded). I was right there. Then he closed the door. I knocked but he pulled away.
I was going to Great Neck to stop off and eat something in a little chinese take-out there. So I waited to the 6:12pm. He was there but late from his coffee break. A long line of people were there.
The bus got packed, then SRO and people kept coming. It was 6:18pm already, and the driver finally decided to leave.
Then it seemed we made every freaking stop to pick up more people. SRO out of Flushing. It got to Great Neck over 10 minutes late.
Fortunately I was able to get my food fast enough to make the next N21 home which came at Great Neck at 7:25pm.
Well I had one of the new buses 329 and it ran great. The series 50G engine sounds great. Also while I was at Great Neck, I saw Orion bus (diesel) 579. It had the engine compartment extension and sounded better with the series 50.
Sometimes I think LI Bus should run express to and from Flushing, with no drop-ffs or pick-ups elsewhere in Queens. People who want other stops in Queens should transfer to the Q12.
I just can't stand the N20/21. We're stopping at every damn light and making every stop. And there seem to be more riders.
They really need to make it quicker for people going to and from Flushing-Main street by reducing the amount of stops in Queens (and perhaps Nassau)on some buses.
The N20/21 is the worst damn bus route. They really need limited stop service. Well I had the best & worst of buses today.
I'm glad NJ Transit's Route 171 Line did us proud and I'm glad you enjoyed the ride. Sometimes our Flxible Metro-Ds (18xx Series) or New NovaBUS RTS-06 (either 11xx, 12xx or 13xx Series) will show up on the 171 which makes for a really fast ride.
Regards,
I'm glad NJ Transit's Route 171 Line did us proud and I'm glad you enjoyed the ride. Sometimes our Flxible Metro-Ds (18xx Series) or New NovaBUS RTS-06 (either 11xx, 12xx or 13xx Series) will show up on the 171 which makes for a really fast ride.
Regards,
All this talk about NJ Transit's Grumman-Flxible buses got me thinking and I thought I'd share a little with you about some of my experiences.
What I liked most about those buses was the fact that almost no two buses were the same, especially 1500-1619 and 2000-2299.
2300-2518 were all the same (large destination signs, cushioned blue and tan seats).
But the others, man, some had large signs, some had small ones, some had the emergency lights, some didn't, most had the original TA seats - some with 2-1, some 2-2, some express-style and 1541-1542 had 2-2 padded seats. Some even had the padded tan seats that the original NJT Grumman-Flxibles had. It was a very diverse fleet.
When I was young, like in 1st-5th grades, my mother would occasionally take me on the #11 bus to Willowbrook Mall or the P9 (now 709) to Garden State Plaza. I remembered two "types" of buses - the ones with the hard brown seats, wooden walls, and black stop-request tapes, and the ones with the soft seats with blue walls and yellow stop-request tape. I don't remember riding any hard blue seat buses during that time.
I started riding NJ Transit buses regularly when I entered 7th grade in 1995. I had to take two buses to middle school, the 94 (now replaced on my street by the 92) and the 72 or P9 (now 709). Sure, I could've taken the school bus, but why? I could travel on a real bus like a real person!
I wasn't into checking bus fleet numbers then, but I remembered from those earlier trips the buses with the hard brown seats, but I never came across them. I hadn't realized yet that the 1994 Flxibles largely replaced them in North Jersey.
I do remember, however, one Grumman-Flxible with a roof-mounted air conditioning unit. This bus ran out of Orange Garage, as I saw it numerous times, and rode it once on the 94 in early 1996 (before the #92/94 route change and before the Novas arived). It had the cushioned tan/blue seats, and wheelchair lift. I do not remember the fleet # of it.
The first 1996 RTS I saw was on the #27 in Bloomfield Center in April of 1996. I was quite surprised when I saw it because I always associated Flxibles with NJ Transit and not the RTS. As I watched them multiplying, I couldn't wait to ride on one. It wasn't until June that I had my first ride on it (again, forgot fleet#!) on the 94 (about a week before the 92/94 change). I remember being quite impressed by it, especially by the AC - man that bus was COLD!
Before the RTS arrived, Orange Garage had a fair amount of 1994 Flxibles. I rode one on the #11 and another on the 94. Those were the only two times I rode them on Orange routes.
It wasn't until I was in 9th grade that the whole NJ Transit bus fleet became clear to me. It was then that I started observing bus fleet numbers and such. Then I became aware of the fact that the Grumman-Flxibles were quite old and would be replaced soon. Then I started joyriding on them. The first bus with TA-style express seats I rode on was 1502 on the #27 bus. I hadn't come across this type of seats before and was very curious.
In September of 1998, NJ Transit regained full control of many 700-series routes, including the 709. Many buses that were operated by Community Transit were turned over to NJT and were run out of Market Street Garage. That's when a lot of TA-seated buses started showing up on MS routes like the 72, 74, and 709. I had a ball riding them. MS didn't have any with TA express seating, but Hilton Garage did. The #27 was (is) split between Hilton and Orange and the express buses would frequently show up on the 27, which I sometimes used to visit my cousin in North Newark.
Later on, I also rode those buses on the 1, 87 and 126.
Remember the hard brown seat Gru-Flxes, the original NJT ones? I got on encore ride on #1009 on the #24 bus in July 1999 from Scotland Road & Main Street in Orange to Broad Street & Raymond Boulivard in Newark. I was on my way back from summer school at Newark Academy in Livingston on the #73, when it passed the #24 terminus and I saw a Gru-Flx with #1009 (this was after the new Novas started taking over!). I never hit the stop request tape so fast in my life. Yes, the #24 runs down Central Ave through East Orange and I stood out like a snowflake in the middle of summer , but it was worth it!
The last ex-TA Grumman-Flxible I rode on was #2449 on the 92 bus in November, 1999, on my way to AM Phys-Ed at 6:50 AM.
The first 1999 NovaBus RTS I saw was #1044 on the #44 route at Main & Day Streets in Orange around 7:10 AM in June, 1999 (while waiting for the #73 express to Livingston).
And the first one I rode was #1175 on the #72 bus.
This may have been answered - but does anyone know which NYCTA Grummans NJ got?
Flx7595
It's really scattered, the Flxibles sent over to NJT was not in numerical order, I have the list BUT it's SOOOOOOO long to even attempt to post here on Bustalk. It's a 8 page spreadsheet.
Regards,
My mother was a bus operator out of Market Street right before she transferred to rail in early 2000.
Her lines from 1998-1999 were the 702, 709 (P9), & 744, I loved riding with her because we would always get a ex-TA Grumman Flxible, every once in a while she'd get at 1994 Flxible METRO-D, I have to give it to my mother, she could drive the hell out of a Flxible.
After early 1999, she began driving the big boy routes like the 144, 171, 175, 178, 182, 712, & 770. Even in driving the New York Lines (the 100 lines), she would not take out anything less than a Metro-D on those lines, I remember clearly her taking out Metro-D #1806 on the 171 one day, and that was the first time I saw a line kept on time the entire length, WHOA! She took out a Metro-B or a MCI once in a blue (If took out a MCI it would always be #6200 or if a Metro-B it was either #3114 or #3575), as the 1999 Novas arrived she took out one almost on a daily basis but she still was a BIG Metro-D fan like myself.
Now she is with NJT Rail as a signal operator out of Hoboken Terminal. Right as I become a Bus Shifter, So I get both aspects of the NJ Transit Corporation.
Regards,
Since NYCT has 100 new MCI buses arriving now & 70 more for the spring 2001. Has anyone heard of NYCT purchasing anymore Over-the-Road coaches for 2001. If so, what bus manufacture will built these buses.
Finally, when the 70 MCI buses arrive in the spring 2001, what depot(s)will they be assigned to.
The 2001-2004 Capital Program includes 104 coaches to be ordered in 2000 and 252 to be ordered in 2003. However, no manufacturer has been selected.
Others have posted possible MCI assignments recently, and I don't know whether they're right or wrong.
David
All of this week, Hoffman Dr on the side of Queens Blvd has been closed and it has been causing a traffic nightmare in that area. Plus on top of that, 57 Ave is 1 way westbound and 59 Ave is 1 way eastbound. All of the Q29, Q38, QM10 and QM11 buses have been turning onto Queens Blvd from 57 Ave and then onto Woodhaven Blvd which is the cause of the traffic. A driver I know on the Q60 got to Grand Ave at 245pm and didn't LEAVE Woodhaven until 4pm. 75 minutes to go a matter of 6 blocks which takes 10 minutes walking.
A: What in God's name are they doing on Hoffman Dr that's causing this fiasco?
B: How long is this gonna take cause I got the Q88 at 108 St to go to Utopia Pkwy to get to SJU because of this mess? And the Q88 deals with punky school kids from Francis Lewis High and Queens College which at times can be too much to handle. I was very fortunate today though, got on a bus that started to pick up at 108 St and the whole way to Utopia there was me and 1 other passenger on the bus (3951). And the LIE Construction doesn't help the case. Anybody know when the LIE Construction is gonna be completed? It's taking forever to do that damn road over and it's a headache for commuters. LIE=PLE-Parking Lot Expwy. Not in a hurry? Take I-495 anyday of the week.
Q88#3951Gary
As usual, DOT fixes one problem and causes a pletora of others. The other day, I was coming down 57th Ave. from 80th St. and planned on making a left turn onto Queens Blvd, to drop off my wife & son at the HIP center. Now, because only 57th Ave. westbound traffic can cross Queens Blvd., I got screwed. Hoffman Dr. was closed and we had to make a right onto Queens Blvd. I had to go all the way down to the already overly congested Woodhaven/Queens Blvd. intersection to turn and go west on Queens Blvd.
All right, I don't want to start something. I got off on a tangent again and just posted something that has nothing to do with buses. If I could delete this & the previous post I would! Many apologies for wasting anyones time. But auto traffic does effect bus traffic!
Today I saw 2707 on the X17 and 2714 on the X1. I didnt notice any changes on the exterior of the buses from the previous models. I did notice that 2114 had advertisements on it already, 2707 did not.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
transitworld.org
[I did notice that 2114 had advertisements on it already, 2707 did not.]
Sorry, I meant 2714 not 2114.
Peace,
Kevin
I would just like to know is how many of the 2000 MCI buses are at Yukon Bus Depot.
There are no year 2000 MCI's at Yukon yet. However, they are expecting a total of 42, #s 2705-2746. There are 130 year 1998 MCI's
#1860-1989 and 78 1999 MCI's #2062-2079 and 2081-2139. Also, 3 year 2000 D45S type buses #996-998.
BIG AL
20 and counting
10/13/2000
Just caught a new TV commercial when watching the Yankee game tonight about 9:06PM. The ad is put out by Prinicpal Financial Group. While hearing the tune "Hi-ho,Hi-ho it's off to work we go" the camera spy's a GM classic that first looks like a Queens Surface bus with orange stripe.
Add to this front and rear doors are black. The camera goes inside and shows happy passengers whistling to the above tune and to my surprise there is a back window!! A GM classic with a rear window! Does any one have an idea what transit system this is ? The last time I saw a contemporary transit bus with a rear window was an RTS in Chicago. The interior of this bus had soft low back seats.
Bill "Newkirk"
Keep in mind this is Hollywood you are talking about. The inside shot of the bus you saw may have been a totally different bus all together from the outside shot of the bus. If they didn't like the way the inside of the bus you saw from the outside looked, they could have used a different bus but made it appear as the same. My guess is they wanted a current looking bus from the outside, but a rear window shot from the inside makes the movement of the bus more realistic. I remember watching a "21 Jump Street" episode once where they had a Black 1985 Trans Am. But the inside shot was that from a completely different car. (I owned a 1985 T/A also, so I caught it right away.)
BIG AL
Some MCI Classics have roof mounted a/c's and some have no a/c at all! Hence the rear window. I've seen this before!
Mark
I haven't been there recently, but at one time Ottawa, Ontario (Canada) had a practice of always ordering buses with rear windows. I believe they had Classics, Orion V's and New-Flyer D-40's, all with rear windows - looked a little weird. Of course, back then they never had A/C on their buses.
Seattle is the same way. They got about 400 Gillig Phantoms just a few years ago, no a/c, and with rear windows. They do look odd, as they are the only Gilligs with rear windows.
They also recently got some NFI D60's. No a/c, but with rear windows. the rear ends are actually slanted in the window portion, similar to the 01/03 series RTS's (but not quite as pronouced).
Las Vegas CAT got some NFI D40's in the early 1990's when they started up, and they came with Sutrak roof-mount a/c systems, so they were also able to get a rear window.
Having driven older Flxibles and GMC's with rear windows, I don't feel that they are much help to the drivers though they make it a little less claustrophobic for the passengers. Besides, the rear windows were always dirty, so you couldn't see well out of them anyway.
There are now 20 2000 MCI coaches in at Yukon Depot. Numbers 2705-2720 and 2722-2725 are now there as we speak (well, read). See my next post for the effects of this. I think some folks will be quite pleased!
Mark
buses 2722-2725 not at yukon yet. buses 2705-2720 have arrived. 2706-2707 and 2709-2714 are in service. 2715-2720,2705 and 2708 await dealer prep. that is a yukon sticker, a radio and most important a farebox.
Apparently the newly-minted MCIs are driven to New York City from the factory. (Somewhere in North Dakota?) I spotted one decked out in the NYCT livery eastbound on I-90 near Madison WI over the weekend. The number appeared to be either 2726 or 2736, I couldn't be sure. It caught me by surprise, but there it was!
they are driven in from pembina north dakota to detroit diesel in new jersey. from there nyct operators bring them to depots.
The TA has revised their express bus deployment as more new MCI's come in. As of now YUK has moved Orion buses 144, 154, and 155 to Castleton. Castleton in turn has moved 620, 623 and 630 to QUEENS VILLAGE!!! I saw 620 and 630 there myself being prepped for service (630 has a QV logo already). Here are the rest of the TA's plans:
1996 Novas: 9257-9269 (13) UP to JAM
9274-9281 (8) UP to MJQ
9252-9256 (5) QV to JAM
1995 Orion: 616-630 (15) CAS to QV
1993 Orion: 115-117 (3) YUK to CStengel
141-155 (15) YUK to CAS
Remans: 7038-7049 (12) UP to MJQ
ALL 1987's WILL BE RETIRED AND, BIG AL, JAMAICA WILL HAVE A 100% NOVA EXPRESS FLEET!!
Mark
Excellent assignment, yet I'm sure there will be a few revisions to this before it's all over. One question, what exactly is UP getting to replace what they are giving up and scraping? They need a lot more than 19 new MCI's. Will they be getting some used ones from S.I.?
Ulmer will be receiving new buses as well. I'm not sure of the number, but YUK and CAS will get their allotment first
Oh my goodness. There is a God after all. Now let me get over to the sofa before I pass out.
BIG AL
I guess 611-615 will stay at CAS?
X68#623Gary
What's up with the TA? Where's the common sense!? They're replacing 13-18 year old buses with 20 year olds, retiring 13 year old buses at the same times as the 18 year olds, and then rebuilding all of the 10 year old TMC buses they have! What are they gonna do, retire the 10 year old TMC's in the next three years after refitting them with new motors?!
I see why they'd want to get rid of 1746 or 1778, but a 1987 TMC? How the hell does the TA decide which buses are going to that big depot in the sky?! Closing their eyes and selecting a bus number at random!?
I'm happy for Queens that they won't have to deal with the 18 year olds anymore (even though the fleet *snicker* of 18 17xx and 18xx buses was kind of spread thinly), but retiring 13 year old buses is kind of going overboard. And yes, I'm aware that the AVERAGE lifespan of a bus is 12 years, but they have buses between 18 and 20 so they might as well just overhaul the 1987 TMC's and give them another 7 years.
I wonder when all is said and done, if in actuality those 4800 series express coaches (and former FP now at UP 4742 which has coach seats because of fire) will actually be transfered to local service......Like you, about a month ago I questioned the wisdom of rebuilding the 1990 TMC's (8000-8396). Now that 3000 to 3325 are gone, these are by far the worst RTS model in the fleet in terms of speed and air pollution. I'm told these are RTS VI models and structurally they are built much better than the older ones hence they will be rebuilt with the Series 50 engine so their life span can be virtually doubled. The 8400 to 8564 group also pollutes the air heavily. These 2 models mentioned had trap oxidisors when delivered but in reality they have been disconnected because of high maintance concerns by the budget counters. Anyone else have a spin on this?
8401 is where the series begins.
8400 was built for NY Housing Auth-PD and now lives as NYPD.
Never turned a wheel in revenue service.
Blue
NO, not all the 1983 are gone!! There is one left, PA3282 out of ENY. Im sure she will be soon, though.
BM34x
3099 an express conversion still runs out of ulmer park daily.
I thought 3099 was scrapped? I know for a fact the only 1983 RTS in operating condition is PA3282 out of ENY Depot. 3099 has been sitting in Ulmer Park for ages. Anybody have a pic of her? I wish I did.
Q56#3282Gary
I saw it about 2 weeks ago on the B1. That was a good move by the dispatcher in the depot. I also saw 4497 on the same route recently.
That can't be right. There are no 1983 Express buses in NYCT. Only 1982's then some 1984's were converted to soft seaters starting in the 3400 series.
BIG AL
According to the latest roster PA3282 is still rackin up some miles and if you listen to the rumors so is 3099.
Rumors are always just rumors. While it is possible that 3099 could still be lurking around, in service and the rosters are wrong, what is not possible is that this is an express bus. This is a local hard seater. Maybe, there is a chance a dispatcher was giving it to an operator who was doing an express and requested it, (I don't see why if that dispatcher values his or her job), however the fact remains this is not an express bus, remanufactured or anything else.
BIG AL
Sorry but 3099 was converted to an express bus. I have seen it with my own eyes. I had to double check the # the first time I saw it. I have seen it on many occasions.
Peace,
Kevin
I am going to have to back up my partner on this one. 3099 is an RTS that has been reconfigured for Express Service. I too have seen this bus on the X27,28,29 lines and I had to also take a look and be shocked that it has seats like the 7xxx series express buses remaned by ENY. So the deal is 3099 is now a converted Express Coach!
Peace
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
But is 3099 still in service as I've been hearing? It really doesn't matter. I won't be coming to NYC until next year anyway and by then all the infamous old timers will be collecting dust at Carlton Storage yard.
Anyway, does anyone know the price of tickets for Greyhound from Houston to NYC?
According to their website, $115.00 one way
GREYHOUND LINES
Peace,
ANDEE
greyhound has some discount fares if you purchase tickets a week in advance
If the trip is......The one-way price is:
Less than 501 miles..............$49.00
501-1000 miles...................$59.00
1001-1500 miles..................$69.00
1501-2000 miles..................$79.00
2001-2500 miles..................$89.00
2501-3000 miles..................$99.00
Over 3001 miles.................$109.00
Now could a driver request a local hard seater for an express route?
When the 1983's were in "prime" of their lives, 3095 to 3152 were assigned to Gun Hill. 3099 was among the first of the local buses converted to coach seats & used out of UP. Why that particular bus was selected I don't know. I'm not good at engine #'s, but did this bus get the more powerful engine or did it keep the older/slower one? UP also received a few of the others from GH because the 1983's became excess at GH when the 1996 buses came on line. GH was among the first depots to receive them. Then they stopped coming in due to Atlanta borrowing the 1996's right out of the plant for the summer Olympics. The 1983's from GH to UP were scrapped shortly after a whole load of 1996's came to UP after the games were over. In fact that whole group of 1983's from GH were among the first large lot to be scrapped from the 1983 model year. 3099, if I recall was o/s for a long period of time shortly after UP received it. I was suprised that it was re-resurrected. Even though I have never seen that bus, it has been on Glenn & Mark's roster as a soft seat coach for quite some time.
Bus 3099 did receive a 6V-92 engine at the time of its seat conversion. It also is the LAST 1983 RTS bus running--bus PA3282 was pulled from ENY service last week and is set to be scrapped. ENY Depot has recently taken possession of 1999 Novas 5230-5249 from JG, enabling them to scrap 3282, 1984 RTS 3669 and a few 1985's.
Mark
Hey Big Al 3099 is a soft seater I have driven it many times, it is still a decent bus.
From what I can see, they never converted the seats. But I personally saw 3099 operating on the x28, loaded with passengers one morning along Trinity St. about a month ago.
It has the low back soft seats. They look like hard seats from the outside.
I drive 4742 when ever it is available. The bus is still solid it is fast on the highway 60+ mph. It also has a new and comfortable operators seat.
I drive 4742 when ever it is available. The bus is still solid it is fast on the highway 60+ mph.The steering is still tight. It also has a new and comfortable operators seat.
Driving a bus 60+ mph on the highway is not the smartest thing to do. Admiting to it on this board is not the smartest thing to do either since you never know who in NYCT management may be reading it.
I know you did not give your real name, but they know somebody who drives that bus frequently is speeding on the highway which is a very big no-no in NYCT. And finding out who you are is very easy for them.
BIG AL
You all can't do 60 mph on the Expressways?! What's up with that?! Well your buses should be governed at 42 mph then.
We never said we were all doing it. However, there are a few buses that do not have working governor's and can be driven as fast as they will go. I have had a few like that in the past also, but not lately.
BIG AL
A few?
I've heard about half!
Whoo Hoo and Boo Hoo at the same time. As a suffering rider on those 1982 bad boys, it's nice to see some new blood come down to QV. I guess I better get me last rain soaking from 1767 while I can.
Bus 1767 is in ENY Base Shop for bulkhead repairs. Why? Who knows...
Mark
What are bulkhead repairs? It really doesn't matter becuase these buses juse won't die! And the funny thing is that the TA has enough express coaches to retire the 18 1982 buses it has left! Metro-Houston is doing that as well. For all the talk MTA Houston gives about an accesible fleet, hundreds of Flyers sit at West Facilty while the RTS works two of the most important lines in the system. Not that there is anything wrong with that of course, but it makes you wonder if it really pains our MTA's to get rid of the old RTS?
Here is a pic of 1767 that I took waiting on Queens Blvd at 48 St:
Enjoy!
Q46#1767Gary
This plan cannot be executed until Ulmer Park recieves their MCI's -- and they're gonna need a lot more than 19. (Atl least 35 or more). Therefore, Jamaica Depot and MJQ will not be recieving their bus transfers for quite a while.
>>> The TA has revised their express bus deployment as more new MCI's come in. As of now YUK has moved Orion buses 144, 154, and 155 to Castleton. Castleton in turn has moved 620, 623 and 630 to QUEENS VILLAGE!!! I saw 620 and 630 there myself being prepped for service (630 has a QV logo already). Here are the rest of the TA's plans:
1996 Novas: 9257-9269 (13) UP to JAM
9274-9281 (8) UP to MJQ
9252-9256 (5) QV to JAM
1995 Orion: 616-630 (15) CAS to QV
1993 Orion: 115-117 (3) YUK to CStengel
141-155 (15) YUK to CAS
Remans: 7038-7049 (12) UP to MJQ
ALL 1987's WILL BE RETIRED AND, BIG AL, JAMAICA WILL HAVE A 100% NOVA EXPRESS FLEET!! <<<<
A few days ago I saw Green Line 5504 on a flatbed heading towards Atlantic Diesel on the LIE. The next day, I saw 5504 parked there. This is the second time 5504 has been sent to Atlantic Diesel. Anyone know what's up with this bus?
Maybe a defect in the engine? I see her with a working sign some days and some days she's not working. Go figure with GBL.
Q60#5527Gary
Last night Lifetime ran this movie starring Tyne Daly as an overbearing, possesive matriarch of a family. One of the last scenes takes place in a street outside her grandson's nursery school. In the background you are looking down hill toward a body of water. While the dialogue is taking place an Orion trolley bus crosses the screen from right to left about one block away. It had red stripes similar to QSC livery. I was startled to see the trolley poles on the top of the vehicle. According to the TV listings the movie was made in 1997. Anyone know anything about where it was shot? I think the west coast but not CA since the license plates on the cars was 3 numbers, three letters and the background on the plats had a top stripe, white area for the numbers/letters, and a bottom stripe, similar to the new plates we're getting in NYS
It probably wasn't a real bus, because the Orion doesn't make trolly buses. The closest thing to a trolley bus would be the Orion VI electric buses. I remember on a tour of MGM studios, they had converted a bus to a trolley by putting on some fiberglass wheels that made it look like a trolley truck.
It may have been an electric bus. It happened so fast that by the time I reacted it was gone. It was in the background about a block beyond where the action was taking place. What caught my eye was the trolley poles and that it was boxy and modern looking
According to IMDB.com, it was filmed in Vancouver, BC, which has an extensive ETB system.
When I was in Vancouver, I saw they had a lot of Orions, but they were all diesel.
I believe the the location was in Seattle, Washington which has an extensive ETB system. I believe this because I watched this same movie and in the movie, I noticed that the license plates on all of the cars were the state of Washington.
The livery of those buses does look similar to the one operated in Seattle.
Seattle does NOT have orange-striped buses, nor do any of the surrounding systems.
Vancouver's system DOES.
And I watched the movie too -- those Washingtonplates on the cars did look rather funny to me, so perhaps the movie was intended to take place in Washington. (Gee, funny how we see a lot of NY license plates in the movies and LACMTA buses around those cars....etc., you know what I mean.)
The credits at the end of the movie also noted Vancouver, BC.
So does the Internet Movie Database.
Yes, I know just what you mean. Thanks for the information. It is appreciated.
British Columbia also has the same configuration on auto license plates that Washington does, very similar to NY, California, Oregon, nevada, and MANY other states. Three digits, a space, and three digits, on a white plate.
Sounds like you mistook a BC Transit E-Series Flyer for an Orion.
-Hank
Looking for any bus operator manuals on the flixble 870 model and the orion v.If you can help me out please email me.
I would like to know on what bus depot did the JFK Express Shuttle Bus come out of from 1978-1990, what bus manufactures were used with there seriel numbers from 1978-1990.
I rhink it was ENY depot. They used in the 1980's special RTS's buses that were equipted with lugage racks. I don't know about the buses brfore the RTS' maybe someone else might know.
Robert
The JFK Shuttle was operated out of ENY depot. For the most part, they equipped buses PA1318-PA1329 with luggage racks near, what would be, the wheelchair seat position.
Mark
Go to NYC Buses on this website then go to Joe Testagrose's Queens collection. There you will find a picture of GM fishbowl 8853 (with Bus-O-ramas) in JFK Express service.
Yesterday I rode bus #2710 on the X1, exterior looks the same, interior looks a little neater, the operator's area is a bit bigger.
Overall ride quality is that better than the earlier MCIs we recieve but that's because we broke those in already, LOL!
Regards,
My GIF of NJT's Nova RTS-06 from the 1999-2000 order. I have yet to put in the Flxibles and NYCMTA RTS buses. So the Subway Scene will look odd with a set of R44s on the El and a NJT RTS.
Wow! That was the first time I'd been to your site ... I'm truly, duly impressed! Those are some awesome scenes you've set up, and the attention to detail on your GIFs is impressive!
My only question -- are you using a standard scale? The RTS looks a bit large compared to some of the rail-transit equipment. But otherwise, great job! Awesome site!
Chris
I have added the Flxible Metro-B to my site.
i was wondering if there are any sites that offer sound and/or video clips of NYC buses, such as the sound made when a metrocard is swiped, or anything else, thanx!!
You can check out, www.transitworld.org, they have some pretty hot NYC sounds.
For Video clips, go to www.zdeno.com
Check out, www.nyctransitfamily.net for a comglomerate of sites with different styles and features to satisfy the biggest NYC Bus fan.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Everyone has been expecting to see the "new" QV Orions to be in passenger service as of today. As of right now, I saw nothing but 1982, 1985 and 1996 RTS in service:
1751, 1852, 3807, 3818, 3858, 9256 to name a few.
Does QV Still operate the X32? I remember seeing 1757 and 3818 at 188 St and Union Tpke back in June.
And speaking of 3818, she's 1 of if not then the only EXPRESS buses still in her NYCT Scheme. Here she is on Queens Blvd near Kew Gardens Rd.
Enjoy!
X68#3818Gary
Drivers have to get qualified on them first. Lots of those guys have worked exclusively at QV.
One of our express buses in Jamaica is still in the original NYCT scheme also, but I forgot which one. I believe it's one of the 3800's. When I find out, I'll post back.
BIG AL
I think it's 3858.
R36Gary
I doubt that since we don't have a 3858. I think it's 3881.
BIG AL
No 3881 has been repainted. The bus you are referring to is 3833. The last time that thing saw a fresh coat of paint had to be at least ten years ago.
Mark
It's official as of this morning! At Kew Gardens Rd, I saw Orion 630 on the X68 with QV Decals on her! I think she took the place of 3807 this morning because when I see 3874, I usually see 3807 a few minutes behind her. And today 3807 never showed up, it was 630 in her place. Be on the lookout for more Orions on the X68! For some 1982 RTS Suburban lovers, I did see 1751, 1767 and 1819 on the X68 and
1746 1747 and 1755 on the X63.
However, some 1999 Nova RTS Locals have been spotted on Express runs: I did see 5151 and 5165 this morning on the X64. Sometimes I see either a 4500 or an 8900 doing an Express run. Strange days are here for the MTA!
X68#630Gary
I was on 620 this morning on run 001 of the X68. This Ex-Castleton Orion is tired compared to RTS 9254 that used to be on run 001. The operator is already scoping out the other Orions at QV.
Bus 9254 will wind up at JAM eventually, as 9252-9256 will be moved there as QV gets their Orions
i've seen JAM 5100's doing express runs since they arrived last year
JAM has 9345, 9349 in ENY Base Shop for a 3-year upgrade and 3822 is out due to heavy accident damage, hence, the 5100's in express service.
Mark
Saw 9349 on X63 yesterday-with no advertisements on her.
X63#9349Gary
Saw a QV Orion (623???) deadheading to Manhattan on GCP about 4 pm in the area of Kew Gardens interchange
Saw an Orion on Queens Boulevard on the X68. Now it'll be a bit more difficult telling the NYCB expresses from the Q32's that run on Queens Boulevard, since the Q32, X51 and now the X68 use buses that look identical on the outside.
I think we have Orion #'s 615-640 or something like that.
Anyway, we now must be "trained" to operate these buses. Funny thing is, when we needed to take our yearly performance evaluation road test, we didn't need "training". Instead, we were told, "It's a bus". "You're a bus operator.... drive".
So, when our livlihood depends on performing, we don't need instruction operating a bus we drive only once every year (if that) because we are professionals, but now that we will be driving them daily, we need instruction.
What's wrong with the TA?ż
Doesn't much matter to me anyway. I drove them when they were new, back when I was assigned to JGL in Brooklyn. Didn't like them then (which is why I opted not to go to Flushing), and don't like them now. They are loud, boaty, and the seat platform is too low.
Oh well....
You're getting 615-630........Typical TA. They say and do whatever is advantageous to the TA.
And I thought I was the only one who didn't like Orions because of the low operator platform. Granted they may be more comfortable and operator friendly, but I like sitting tall in a bus and I always feel short every time I drive an Orion. BTW, when I took my re-evaluation test a couple of months ago, we were driving RTS's again from 126th street depot. Just a side note, we now have 9253 in Jamaica depot with a fresh new paint job. The rest of the 9200's from Q.V. are at ENY, I believe, being painted also before they come over to Jamaica.
Seems funny seeing buses being transferred to Jamaica that are not total pieces of garbage.
BIG AL
3870 has a fresh coat of paint on her-go figure!
X63#3870Gary
If I remember correctly, CS has the X32 in the mornings, QV has it in the afternoons.
As of the September 2000 pick, the X32 is operated solely out of Casey Stengel Depot. That is BOTH in the morning and the afternoon. For the most part, they use the two 1982 RTS coaches (1742 and 1745) as well as 1985 seat convert, 4191.
However, in a few short weeks, they will probably be using Orions as Yukon is scheduled to send 115-117 over to Stengel. This should spell doom for the 1982 RTS coaches (you would think that they would still use 4191--they just put the new seats in it. They wouldn't scrap it, would they????)
Mark
Saw 4191 on Saturday on Main St. It must have just been cleaned and painted. No signs.
This bus has the low soft seats, doesn't it?
It's so cool to see 4191 and 4448 on these Orion lines. I hope they hold them awhile.
Flx7595
In the morning they use 4 buses, so what do they use?
Actually, the September 2000 pick has the X32 distributed as follows:
AM -- 4 trips (1 Bayside, 2 Oakland Gardens, 1 Jamaica) out of Casey Stengel, incorporated into runs on the Q27 and Q44/20.
PM -- 3 trips (1 Bayside, 1 Oakland Gardens, 1 Jamaica) out of Queens Village, scheduled as extras.
It's possible that the PM extras might be running out of Casey - IF there's a coverage problem at QV. However, it's generally Casey that has problems covering extras.
Lately, in teh afternoon, I've seen the X32 using 2 buses from QV in the 8000's, though I don't remeber the exact numbers.
Clark Palicka
CEO TrAnSiTiNfO
http://www.nyctransitinfo.com
We all know sports bloopers are crazy plays, student bloopers are mistakes made on assignments (i.e. "Cyrus McCormick invented the mechanical raper which could do the work of 100 men." "Raper" is susposed to be "reaper). Well, today, I saw a bus driver blooper.
For those of you who don't know this, Ride-On 36 has many trips operated by MetroBus with the 30 Foot Flxibles like this one painted in Ride-On colors and charge Ride-On fares. Anyway, this afternoon, one of these buses' sign was reading
..36 BETHESDA
THANK YOU FOR
RIDING METRO
Only problem is that this isn't a MetroBus Route!
BTW, here is a picture of a county operated Ride-On bus. Click here to get it.
Sounds like a classic WMATA blooper. Sort of like the times that I see the ones that say "Not In Service" and then flip to "Welcome Aboard".
An appropriate headsign for LA dring the strike.
Blue
The only explanation I can give for this blooper to happen is a Public Relations (PR) message not removed by the driver. PR messages are messages used in addition to the one that displays the normal route and destination. They can be as simple as "EXPRESS" or be more verbose like:
THANK YOU FOR
RIDING METRO
There must be a PR message that says this. This would most likely be thecause of this. Sometimes the driver changes the sign without changing or removing the PR message (I think it would be [P/R][0][Enter] on most control boxes). Sometimes you see things like the following on New York City buses:
The Q32 bus does not have a limited stop service.
The S74 bus is not a subway shuttle. There isn't even a subway in Staten Island!
This kind of stuff happens all the time in New York.
Not to mention the B6 "Limited" signs that would flash- this was three years before there even was a limited!
I know what P/R is and how if they don't cancell it it keeps going. The point I was making is that THERE IS NO REASON TO SAY "THANK YOU FOR RIDING METRO" WHEN THE BUS IS ON A RIDE-ON ROUTE IN RIDE-ON COLORS!!!
Maybe the bus has an identity crisis. :-)
I once boarded a bus whose sign read 'SUBWAY SHUTTLE' instead of the expected 'Q27 MAIN STREET STATION'. 'SUBWAY SHUTTLE' is what you'll frequently see on buses put in service to serve a part of a line undergoing track work. The bus took its normal Q27 routing, but a lot of people at stops along the way were scratching their heads when they saw a 'subway shuttle' coming. Some let the bus go by without stopping. A lot who boarded asked in a confused tone "27?!" The driver would answer affirmatively.
When I got off at the end of the line, I asked the driver why this strange sign was displayed. She said that as long as the bus was going to the subway, and most people along the route use it as feeder service to the subway, this would constitute it as being a 'subway shuttle'.
In my (at the time) twenty-four years riding buses in Northeast Queens, I'd never heard such a convoluted explanation. Not EVERYONE riding a bus towards Flushing or Jamaica is getting on the subway afterward- are they?
The driver you spoke to misses a point. Subway shuttles are supposed to follow subway routes. It could be understood if a Q32 had "Subway Shuttle" on it since it follows the 7 line for about 90% of the Queens portion of the route, but the Q27 follows 0% of any subway routes. The driver's explanation makes no sense whatsoever.
[Not EVERYONE riding a bus towards Flushing or Jamaica is getting on the subway afterward- are they?]
Most people do. Whenever someone signals the driver to stop, it's likely that people will get off.
This probably wasn't a blooper, but definitely counts as the strangest thing I've seen on a destination sign. An express bus on Victory Blvd., on the X10 or X11, said EMERGENCY/CALL POLICE. I did, but it probably didn't help, as the idiot 911 operator didn't know where Victory Blvd., the SI Expressway, or the College of Staten Island were, but I didn't hear anything on the news about a bus being hijacked that night, either :)
Sounds about right for 911 and Staten Island. I once called for a guy hit by a car by the Golden Dove. I looked up from the payphone at the street signs, read them to the operator, and was told that they don't intersect. So I pulled the fire alarm box instead.
-HAnk
Yeah - I seen bloopers like that many times on NYCTA where the same message is displayed twice like... "Bx2 LIMITED" "LIMITED STOPS", etc.
Years ago when the DOT privates first rec'd their Grumman 870's I knew a B/O at Green Bus Lines who used to "advertise" that he was going home on the last trip of his run. I don't know if his passengers got the message, but he'd dispplay his route info. (Q60) and "GARAGE" along with it.
Wayne
"Yeah - I seen bloopers like that many times on NYCTA where the same message is displayed twice like... "Bx2 LIMITED" "LIMITED STOPS", etc."
That's supposed to be like that. "Bx2 LIMITED" is part of the regular routing sign, and "LIMITED STOPS" is a P/R sign. Many drivers do this to make it even clearer that they're a limited stops bus. This is also helpful when running to catch the bus from behind, seeing the rear sign go from "Bx2" to blank (or on TwinVision signs, to "LTD"), so you know if it's a limited or not.
[That's supposed to be like that. "Bx2 LIMITED" is part of the regular routing sign, and "LIMITED STOPS" is a
P/R sign. Many drivers do this to make it even clearer that they're a limited stops bus. This is also helpful when
running to catch the bus from behind, seeing the rear sign go from "Bx2" to blank (or on TwinVision signs, to
"LTD"), so you know if it's a limited or not.]
I realize this... It just seems unnecessary to told it's a limited twice.
Wayne
QSC Orion #449 (I think) on the Q65A looked like it was having some problems with its front destination sign last night. The route was condensed in the upper left corner of the sign and read "5AEWEL A"/"5A64 ST"; the rest of the sign said "QUEENS SURFACE" in large letters. I didn't get a look at the side sign.
This is an 8.5 inch x 11 inch 20 page booklet printed by the MTA. They later decided not to distribute it. It contains 20 glossy, color pages of actual size photos of 1997-99 commemorative MetroCards & cardholders. Full color photos of the Subway Series 97, Then and Now, Emigrant, JVC Jazz, Healthy City, Ferry Boat, Yankees 98, Subway Cool, Millennial Journeys, Mets International Week plus 63 Cardholders including the complete Great Subway series. All photos are actual size & full color! A beautiful collectorıs MUST HAVE. The supply is very limited. When they are gone, they are gone.
Send $10.00 ea.+ $2. P & H in check to
Made out to Mike Makman.
To: Prof. Putter
Po Box 755
Planet Station, NYC NY 10024
This Thanksgiving, there is a possibility I'll be going to San Antonio to see a female friend of mine. To better prepare myself for the trip, I went to the VIA's (San Antonio's transit company) website and I'll be damned if I didn't see an RTS slopeback in the bottom left corner of the screen. I don't know if they're in service or not, but I feel there is a good possibility since my friend said that they do have "round buses" down there. And anyway, what transit company uses old buses to advertise their transit service?
On a side note they also have the "career killer" NABI's as well. I feel I better hurry.
I was in San Antonio about 3-4 years back, and they still had some RTS slopebacks running. However, the backs had all been rebuilt into squarebacks. If they've gotten new buses in, such as NABI's, I suspect all the former slopebacks may now be gone.
If you find any slopebacks, still in their original form, please try to take some pictures as the only known slopeback still in existance is with Jetaway Transit running mostly around Belmont Park racetrack, ferrying people to and from their cars. If these buses have been converted and squared off in the rear, then I would say don't bother as we have some of those around here in the Metropolitan area.
BIG AL
Oh, what the hell. Take the pictures anyway, regardless of what they look like. Maybe they can be posted on TransiTalk.
BIG AL
Today while I was in Glen Cove I saw the N27 on Glen street and the back portion of the bus appeared to have wrap (an ad) on the back of the bus. This was from a distance but the bus # was 62?, one of the diesel Orions.
I wonder if LI Bus may wrap complete buses, perhaps increasing ad revenue. This would be a big change for LI Bus, which unlike NYC, has had minimal advertisements.
While riding 6122 on the Q26 to Flushing yesterday, I saw LI Bus 628 with a rear wrap on her. Forgot what the wrap had but it sure did look different.
Q26#6122Gary
Saw 593 and 625 going through Great Neck today with rear wrap.
Sure looks alot better than the plain white paint that shows up dirt!
I also saw 628 on the N78 either Wednesday or Thursday morning. The rear wrap was for Dornier Leather or something close to that.
All the rear wraps I've seen are for Danier Leather.
Saw a S-T bus (#9612 I think) operated by EBT,Inc. of Amityville on the S-1 Southbound at NY Ave and Huntington LIAR station with the same wrap Friday about 5:15PM. Nice to see the systems trying to get some badly needed funds from other than a fare box.
And we all know LI Bus could really use those funds!!
They've had a few of them like that for close to a year. I'm waiting for the new Orions from Inter county motor coach to get them.
Saw the above bus broken down N/B on 164th just south of LIE last night about 6:45PM. The tow truck was already there starting to hook-up to it. Thurston, what happened???????
Over the summer 514 was in a front end basher of a collision on the westbound LIE. I haven't seen her in service, so it prolly was 524. 524 a few nights ago on the QM1 had problems running hot.
Yes, it wasn't 514 as she's still in the yard waiting for parts.
Mr t__:^)
Saw this shrink-wrapped MCI Surburban outside Shea Stadium's Gate E last night at 11:50PM waiting to load up with happy Met Fans last night. I bet it must have been a heck of a party on board.
YEP! , it has the Best Buy Wrap!
Peace,
Kevin
Ex-Queens Surface Corp. RTS #231 is now working for the Park Towne Place apartments in Center City Philadelphia. It apparently went into service for Park Towne on Monday, 10/9/00, replacing another RTS, ex-NYC Transit #1493.
#231 is still in the QSC paint scheme, the only change being the Park Towne Apts. name in a similar logotype to the QSC name. The (roll)destination sign is set to blank, but apparently still has a curtain from QSC installed.
Need history of this bus with QSC & when they sold it. Thanks!
Michael Buglak, Collegeville, PA
Well - I don't know when it was sold but the bus itself is a 1985 GMC RTS II, 04 series (T80604). As you probably know it 40 feet long by 96 inches wide with a Detroit Diesel 6V-92TA engine.
I hope this helps...
Wayne
Is that RTS bus the one that said Philadelphia on it (the old one)? I never really heard of that service before, but I think I saw one in Center City one day. Can you tell me more about he service?
Park Towne Place Apartments & The Philadelphian Apartments are both high-rise complexes located near the Philadelphia Museum of Art in Center City Philadelphia. Both offer a private shuttle service around Center City to residents only. The routing for both is basically from 24th St. & Ben Franklin Parkway, east on the Parkway to 20th Street, south on 20th to Market St., east on Market to City Hall & around to return west on John F. Kennedy Blvd., north on 20th, & back up the Parkway to the apartment buildings. The headway seems to be about every 15 minutes for both.
The previous "Park Towne Place" RTS, ex-NYCT #1493(I believe from the first order of 1981), had been repainted in plain white with "Park Towne" in brown. The fleet numbers were all removed but you can still faintly see "1493" on the top rear if the light is good! The destination sign was usually set to a test pattern. The emergency lights next to the sign were still in place, as well as the run number box (always set to "639" for some reason!) Park Towne's shuttle is operated under contact by Wilco Tours of Pennsauken, NJ.
The "Philadelphian" bus, also an RTS, is formerly #152 of Wilmington, Delaware's DART First State system, acquired in 1997 or 1998, I believe. This RTS is a 1983 "04" model. It wears its old DART colors of blue & while (similar to the older NYCT schemes for the RTSes.) The destination signs have been removed. It is operated by Martz Lines.
I have not tried to ride either service but I believe the operators will allow one to board only upon showing a special ID card issued to residents of the complexes.
Hope this helps! Michael B.
If you are a member of the Ohio Museum of Transportation (www.omot.org) then you can get into their members only section and check out their production lists.
Or check out www.geocities.com/buslist
The latter only has series 3 RTS's not series 4. Check the builders plate inside the bus for the actual model and serial number so you can see where it was first delivered to and when. It may not have been QSC.
Also contact poster "Thurston". He works for QSC. His e-mail is clark@QSBUS.com
Kindly post the results so that we know where one of our "children" ended up.
I heard that a number of ex-QS RTS buses have gone, or will be going to, Laffayette & Greenville Corp. in Jersey City. Anybody know if they're in service yet?
Yes some is in service, some are still be repainted but 4 of the 10 QSC at L&G are in service and the 2 Triboros are too. The Command is sitting at the yard all white with no numbers.
The QSC units still wear thier original QSC numbers and number plates.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
www.flxible.org
Lafayette and Greenville had some 1983 fishbowls purchased 2nd hand from CT Transit (formerly ran in Hartford/New Haven or New Britain). Does the addition of former NYDOT RTS's to the L & G roster mean that these fishbowls are now gone?
The Fishbowls are still around, both of them!
Trevor Logan
No, the GMC fiskbowls are still in the presence of the fleet,numbered 204 and 205 they have been taken out of active service and put in a yard in the back of the company along with all of the QSC GMC RTS buses, in which are still being repainted as of late i have only seen two active on the 3 Journal Square line, I am not sure of the numbers, I believe one for sure is 273 and the other is 247, i am not sure of 247 however. There was in there shop another QSC RTS stripped of its logos and still being repainted, I did not capture a view of which one it is. they also have one flixible 870 number 236 which is only used when needed and a ex NJT Metro -A numbered 203 in which runs the local line to newport in Jersey City during rush hour or when ever it is needed.
Tone
If anybody can find out what ex-QS, and TCC buses are at L & G, I'd really apprecaite the info. I remembert getting ex-QS 273 all of the time on the Q66 and she was a pretty good unit. 247 check her interior-half of her seats are carpeted and half of them are not. I wonder if 270 is there-she was the last QS GMC RTS that I saw in service before they were retired and she was in my opinion 1 of the better units that were at QS. Is Triboro getting 1985/1986 RTS or the 1994 TMC RTS Methanol Buses? And are the Methanols getting scrapped? Wouldn't it be easier to reconvert them to diesel and give them to GBL? It'd make sense to do that. Getting rid of 6 year old buses is so stupid to do.
Q18#2144Gary
By the end of last year all the RTS GMC's were declaired surplus by us. Even a few of the worst TMCs went on the list. As the year began 275 was the lowest number, then 275 thru 293 went to Green & Jamaica.
That makes 294 the oldest RTS in our fleet. Our total of RTC, MCI & Orion now stands at 337.
Mr t__:^)
Former QSC #231 is a GMC -04 RTS and was last in service here Nov '99.
I'm glad to here she wasn't made into coke cans !
Mr t__:^)
Today I opened up a page dedicated to the Flxible New Look, 870 ADB and METRO ADB Fans!
www.flxible.org
Enjoy
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
www.nyctransitfamilynet
www.flxible.org
Wonderful page! Just one question, I noticed from the date stamp that your pics of the TA #236 was taken this year. Is this part of a museum or a private collectors piece. If in a museum, what dates does the museum take part? Thanx.
Yes, 236 is part of the TA museum fleet, they only bring her out for the Bus Rodeo and Bus Festivals held earlier in the year!
Trevor Logan
I'm talking about NJ Transit's bus fareboxes which accept the new gold dollar coin. I've tried it and it works. But do they accept silver dollar coins?
Now just the opposite is the case with NYCTA buses - they take the silver coins, but do they take the gold ones?
Thanks.
BTW - NJ Transit's fareboxes accept pennies.
Yes the NJT fareboxes take the silver dolloars and the MTA fareboxes take the gold dollars (have tried both).
Also, the TA's fareboxes take pennies too, BUT the TA is too laxy to count them so they tell you they don't take 'em, BUT many of days I've put pennies in the TA's fareboxes.
Trevor Logan
It's not that anyone's too lazy to count pennies, it's that they tend to fill up the farebox. It was more of an issue before MetroCard, but a bus with a full farebox has to go out of service.
David
Quote from the 2000 MTA edition of The Bus Operator's Guide to Customer Service...
"Just so you know: In spide of what it says on the decal, fareboxes really can take pennies. The reason we ask people not to pay with them is because it's difficult for us to count them, As for Kennedy half dollars--No, those don't fit. And of course we can't take paper bills, but fareboxes do take the Susan B. Anthony dollars and the new gold dollar."
WMATA Fareboxes take pennies and so do the farecard vendors (from what I hear). If you put them in slowly, I've heard it works.
Fareboxes do; farecards don't.
Someone I know got it to work.
Congratulations Trevor on another great site. The Flxible Tribute honors a great bus manufacturer. All you Flxible fans out there should really check it out. It is really well done.
I'd second that with one or two caveats. First, Flxible.org is a great site -- it's great to see the photos finally up. Excellent work; it's the most comprehensive history / photo trove of Flxibilia I've seen, period.
However, I'm disturbed at the trend towards background MIDI files on TL sites. Much as I like Donnell Jones & Left Eye's "U Know What's Up," I'd rather not hear the MIDI interrupt my Winamp playlist (which, to be sure, includes an MP3 version of said song). The other issue is the runtime error in the scripts on your page -- maybe it's just my machine, but every time I go to TransiTalk or Flxible.org, I get some error box about it.
Other than that, great site!
Chris
Trevor:
Great to see these classic Flxibles.
Would have liked to see 7595, but I'm picky :) 7588 is ok.
One question. Saw pics I haven't seen anywhere before (i.e 7588). They seem to be from Glenn's and Douglas' collection.
Do either of them have web sites that show more of the 'classic' buses from the 1970's and 1980's?
Thanks. And once again, great site.
flx7595
Na, Those were shots that Glenn sent to my TransiTALK Site, Some of the Doug's shot I bought off of him and some are from the NYC Subway.org Bus Archive, Some shots are by me, some shots are by close friends!
Trevor Logan
Several years ago, NYCTA changed the paint on the upper half of their buses from black to white, and thusly started repainting their buses.
What puzzles me is the following:
Why were the oldest buses (excluding the New Looks, which were already all-white) repainted first?
Why did RTS buses delivered after the change continue to be delivered in the old black-top scheme, while other buses (Orions, New Flyer) came with the new scheme?
Opinion Time: The white upper half makes the RTS buses appear ugly and sloppy, though they look fine on the Orions and New Flyers.
The RTS looks more handsome in the older scheme. If I close my eyes and picture an Orion or NF that way, I think I can say the same.
[Why were the oldest buses (excluding the New Looks, which were already all-white) repainted first?]
*Maybe I misunderstand the question, but excluding the fact that this is a government agency we're talking about, why would you repaint new buses? As the older buses come up for their scheduled maintenance, they get repainted.
I agree that an RTS looks better in the older as-delivered scheme. But I dont think that the change was an intentional esthetic change so much as a cost-saving measure.
The pre-1993 RTS had black window frames, a black triangular insert on the upper rear, and black paint on the front and rear door, which when you factor in the dark tinted glass creates a long uninterrupted black belt or insert on the upper portion of the bus. The repainted RTSes really arent all-white with a blue stripe; they continue to have black window frames which make up a substantial portion of the area I referred to. When I first saw a repainted bus, I assumed they were painting the rear triangle white to mimic the solid white rear of the 1993 TMC RTS (8400 & up). After seeing enough repainted buses, and realizing something didnt look quite right about them, I made an educated guess about what is happening.
I think that the TA was saving money when masking and painting the buses by taking black paint out of the process. I believe they just mask the windows and surrounding black frames, leaving the black frames as delivered, then mask only the glass on the doors and spray everything else white then put on the blue stripe. You still have a black belt on the upper portion of the bus, but since the black accents on the doors were eliminated you see either an all white bus or an "ugly and sloppy" looking paint job, depending on what you focus your attention on.
This is just my guess; I always speculated someone in the paint shop put this in as an employee suggestion and got a cash award out of it.
[Why did RTS buses delivered after the change continue to be delivered in the old black-top scheme, while other buses (Orions, New Flyer) came with the new scheme?]
*I wondered about that too. The black frames are peculiar to the RTS...if you see it as a cost saving measure as I've suggested, then there never was a paint scheme change from the factory's viewpoint. I thought that they were repainting the RTSes to look like the Orions, but the intact black windows frames after the buses were repainted killed that idea.
you are absolutely right. someone did receive an award for this money saving paint scheme.
Earlier this afternoon, I saw one of the Orion VI hybrids from Manhattanville headed northbound on the NY Thruway between Exits 15A and 16. I couldn't see the number real well, but think it was 6358 (it was definitely one without the black window band). I suspect it was headed to the Orion plant in Oriskany, NY, for some reason.
Possibly was 6358 because 6358 has been sitting at Lodi Atlantic Diesel for the past month or so, may Detroit Diesel couldn't help the poor thing so they shipped her off to Her Mother, The Orion Plant!
Trevor Logan
3099 is still going strong as an express coach.It only does one or two trips onto the city in the morning.It rarely goes out for the evening rush.Once in a while they use on a local if they are short of hard seaters.
OK, I guess I was wrong. I don't know why transit would convert an old bus like that to a soft seater, but then again they do alot of things I don't understand. I guess the rosters on the web should be updated to include this bus as being in active service along with 3282.
BIG AL
This 2000 MCI 102-DWA3 CNG Cruiser, 7068 today was running rt 67 toward Lakewood from Lincoln Harbor was on its way up 15th street in hoboken approaching the viaduct when a BMW apparently tried to cut off the bus while the bus was hanging a right turn up the viaduct, apparently the car did tap the bus putting a streak of green paint on the side, the car then hit a concrete barrier and the front bumper fell off. the driver were both fine and 7068 just needs to be repainted, and then it took on its route toward Lakewood, its a shame what happens when some one tries to cut off the bus.
Tone
>>>...when a BMW apparently tried to cut off the bus ...<<<
Reminds me of a joke,
What's the difference between a BMW and a porcupine???....
...
...
...
...
...
A porcupine has it's pricks on th OUTside. 8-)
Peace,
ANDEE
I couldn't have said it better myself. It seems that the worse drivers all own either BMW's, Porsches, or Mercedes. You can almost count on them being the assholes who will try and pass your bus on the right side while you're attempting a right hand turn. They're usually so self absorbed with their cell phones that they are oblivious to their surroundings. I guess you can't purchase a European luxury car unless you demonstrate that you are absolutely clueless.
As this memo is bieng written the first buses are bieng started up and a mad call for operators is on to make the OWLs.
It was fun to ride former LA and Long Beach RTS 04s on the strike feeder lines and I have once again regained my "Last RTS" ride claim.
Blue
Why can't either the L1 and L4 trips or the L2 trips terminate at Friendship Heights. Today, I took the L4 from DuPont Circle and when I got off at McKinley Street, I saw an E bus heading towards Friendship Heights which I had just missed. I walked on McKinley to Western and caught a 1 there but transfering is a pain since the schedules aren't coordinated.
Also got pics of Orion VI. I'll get them online ASAP.
It sounds like metro needs to do a better job of working on transfer coordination. That is a possible oversight on their planning department and may need to be addressed. If it happens a lot to you, I'd write to them or something. But, extending one of them to Friendship Heights is a logical idea, but I forgot, logic isn't good when it comes to scheduling. Maybe extending the L4 would be better since its such a short trip from Chevy Chase Circle to Dupont Circle. It could just bypass the turnaround there and head for the Circle and go down Western Ave. to Friendship Heights.
I was thinking turn onto McKinley Street to make the route shorter and since very few passengers go to Chevy Chase Circle, those who do can walk. I was thinking the L2 would get the extension since on weekends when there is less service, making connections is harder so it is more important for the L2 to go to Friendship. Also, the L4's main purpose is to get people to/from NW to the DuPont Circle shops and offices north of the circle. The extension of the L1 and L4 trips (the L1 is really the L4 and the L4 is the L4/) isn't as important as the extension of the L2. Reasons as to why this doesn't work for Metro is probably the E2-4 and E6 on McKinley Street, and the route is longer by about 3 minutes which may mean shorter layovers. As it is, the L4 only has a 4 minute layover at DuPont Circle. I guess the L2 and N2/4 could be paired up so the buses do a round trip on the L2 and then a round trip on the N2/4 or do one trip on the L2, go to the N2/4 terminal and do one trip on the N2/4. This pairing could work with any route that stops at Friendship Heights and works out of Western.
I can't understand it. Gillig Phantoms are one of the most popular buses around. But why? I mean, they are the boxiest buses, not really that interesting to look at. They use two flat panels of glass for the window with no wrap around whatsoever. I mean, they are boring! They never even changed the basic design since the 80's. So, why are they so popular. Are they cheaper? Why?
Yes this bus in one of the cheapest buses (for price) around, BUT These are some hot running buses. Especially Montgomery County Ride-On's in Maryland. They are fast, smooth and very responsive.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
www.flxible.org
yeah, they do provide a pretty nice ride. I used to always ride them on Ride-On. Oh, well, thanks for telling me.
You left out built like crap. You ask 100 drivers and mechanics what they think of them, and 90 of them will tell you so. The other ten will tell you that BlueBird is worse. I rode Gilligs when I was in Savannah, they were horrid.
-Hank
Well, I've only ridden four types of Gilligs and I only had one bad experience and that was with MTA-Long Island Bus Gillig Phantoms in which those suck huge balls.
Ride On Montgomery County Transit's Gilligs are by far awesome! Washington Flyer in Washington DC has some nice Suburban ones that rock and I recently rode the new Low Floor Gillig Advantage which another great bus. Bee Line is looking at a 30 foot version of that bus right now. Who knows, it may show up on the Metro North open house shuttle this saturday!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
www.flxible.org
Style, as you may have noticed, has not of late been a major purchase decision for transit authorities. Witness the ugly Orion Vs and VIs -- basically steel boxes with off-the-shelf Western Star truck parts bolted on.
Chris
Style, as you may have noticed, has not of late been a major factor in purchase decisions for transit authorities. Witness the ugly Orion Vs and VIs -- basically steel boxes with off-the-shelf Western Star truck parts bolted on.
Chris
Well, you are certainly right about the Orions, they are now pretty ugly. Oh well, I guess performance is better than appearance these days. Just look at the Ford Focus.
I'm starting to like the Orion VI's more than I used to. I guess it took some time getting used to them, but they are all over the place here in Arlington.
The only complaint from a driver I used to hear of for a Gillig was that when they would use the turn signal it used to make an annoying buzzing sound. The body of the 30 foot Gillig looks too big for the chassis, but the 35 footers look pretty good. I like the newer ones that Ride On has that have the big route numbers on them. I think those are used mainly on up county routes 43 - 91.
Gawd,t hat Ford Focus, especially the two-door couple, makes me wanna PUKE!!!
I was never crazy about Gilligs either. I think they have the ultimate utilitarian look. The only Gillig Phantoms I've ever ridden are the 30 and 35 foot models at Montgomery County Ride-On. I never got the feeling that they were great buses, but they sure are fast. Occasionally when I'm in Silver Spring I ride Ride-On's 12,13,15 & 19 routes and usually I'll pass up a Gillig for an Orion.
Wayne
Why not I passed up a Gillag for a New Flyer Artric when I was in Vegas .And the ones that LIBus (MSBA)operates are pitiful and they are only 11yrs old .
Oh - I forgot about MSBA's. I did ride MSBA's Gilligs about 8 years ago.
Wayne
You did the right thing by waiting for the New Flyer! A FAR superior bus over the Gillig Phantom. (I know, I drove Gilligs and now I get a NFI D40LF every day.)
Are New Flyer's really that good? SEPTA is suppose to be getting some low floors next year. I think, at least with the high floor buses, that the windows are too small. AT least they look that way from the pictures.
From a passenger standpoint, the NFI D40LF's do NOT have that good visibility.
From a driver's standpoint, they are a VERY good bus. With the Detroit Series 50 engine, Allison B500R transmission, there is lots of power and one hell of a good, strong retarder. They have excellent acceleration, they ride well, and they steer well; they also have good A/C systems.
Then they must have done something to improve them. I've driven many 1983, 1988, 1989 Gillig Phantoms, and they were all rough riding, they'd bounce like a tugboat in a typhoon, and they steered hard. And they were god-awful SLOW, even after re-engining them with Cummins C8.3's or Detroit Series 50's. We did have one bunch that got Cummins M11's, they were fast when they got re-engined, but they slowed down pretty soon afterwards (seems to me like ALL Cummins engines do that....)
The basic reason, though, that a LOT of agencies buy them is....MONEY!
They are CHEAP. Cheap in price and cheaply built. They rattle and squeak something fierce, and that's even as you turn left onto Clawiter Road in Hayward, California, leaving their lot when you pick up a brand new one!!
Notice how most major cities won't touch 'em with a ten-foot pole. Seattle and Minneapple-ass are about the only two major TA's that have bought them; you just don't see them in Boston, NYCTA, Chicago, Dallas, Miami, San Francisco, LACMTA. They seem to be more popular with smaller to medium transit agencies.
Well, WMATA has Gillig Phantoms, although they are just used for the city, and that is a pretty big transit agency. SEPTA never gets popular buses, anyway. Also, I'm not sure if Palm Tran in West Palm Beach is small, but they have a lot of brand new Gillig Phantoms, and they were pretty nice to ride. Also, the Ride-On 35ft Gillig Phantoms(at least the one I rode in Silver Spring) had an engine that sounded quite similiar to the Flixible Metro Bs from the early 1990's (the newer B's). Just to say that.
Washington, DC DID have a large order in for Gilligs -- however, after the first couple dozen were delivred, they found they were such pieces of crap, that they cancelled the remaining buses of the order and haven't gone near Gillig since!!!
Some of the buses from that cancelled order wound up with Island Transit, in Coupeville, Washington (Whidbey Island). Others were sold one-by-one to other small agencies inWashington 9state0 and Oregon.
PalmTran is VERY small. I just saw a roster of theirs recently, and most of what they run is cookie wagons (van conversions) and maybe four dozen full-size buses.
Recently I've noticed WMATA's SH4 route from Silver Spring to Takoma. I'm wondering if this is something new. So far I've been seeing 30 foot Orion V buses from Northern Division on this route.
Wayne
There is no such thing. No WMATA routes have 2 letters.
Don't be so fast to block that because remember you can program a WMATA buses route sign to say anything, countless times I've gotten signs to say:
"TLJ""Special" or "TLJ"Silver Spring"
All you have to do is hit route on the Sign's ODK and place in what you want the route sign to say.
You never know, Metrobus runs shuttles "off the books." When I was living in Burtonsville (Montgomery County), we had a library fair by my house and they had Montgomery Garage Metro-Ds running the fair shuttle (Buses #9830-9832) and the had the signs up as "BPL1""Special" and "BPL2""Special" meaning Burtonsville Public Library Route 1 Special and Route 2 Special. The Route 1 went from the library to Briggs Chaney Park and Ride and the Route 2 when to the Burtonsville Shopping Center.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
www.flxible.org
I did remember that. I meant no route was scheduled.
I've also seen signs like "J7 FEDERAL TRIANGLE" and "T3 ROCKVILLE STATION".
I've never heard of SH4 before. I mean, I seriously never heard of a route with two letters in it before. I guess it could be new.
Its always possible the elevators or something were not working, or one of the stations was closed and the SH meant some sort of Shuttle run between the two stations and not a regular route. Metro is always having a shuttle run from one station to another if the elevators go out so that people with special needs can get to their destination.
This (and what Trevor said) makes sense. I've seen these buses 3 times this week - as recent as Wednesday evening. It leaves Silver Spring Metro and travels east on Wayne Ave to Georgia Ave, then south on Georgia to Blair Rd, NW to Takoma Station.
Wayne
Can anyone please provide a WMATA bus roster? It is very hard to find one on the web or from WMATA itself. Thank you.
Transitalk is working on one as we speak, it should be out in about 1 week.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Trevor, I continue to enjoy your fabulous Flxible.org site. Great photos.
My question -- I understand that the evolution from the 870 to the Metro was pretty major mechanically, and I see a few differences among the letter-series Metro (Ds and Es have straight backs, generally Excel windows, and on-top tailpipes, for example) but I wondered if you (or another similarly informed BusTalker) could provide some information on differentiations and how to spot them, either in here or on the site.
Thanks!
Chris
It basically years and some minor changes like windows, engine grills, and some interior characteristics!
Trevor Logan
Which is better? Stop strips seem to be set off accidently alot, usually by somebody leaning against it and triggering the bell.
Pull cord is better in my opinion, it's also easier. Some stop strips are rather hard to press, especially on LI Bus.
Why doesn't the MTA use pull cord on their buses like QSC?
I prefer the push buttons. (Not the strips, the buttons! They're found inside the low floor CNG buses out of Gleason, and above the doors on the Triboro and QSC Orions, and on either side of the rear door on the GBL 5500's.)
We have the button above the rear door on LI Bus.
With the strips, as long as the front door isn't open, the bell can only be rang once. If I'm not mistaken, the cord can be pulled continuosly and can become a real irritant to the driver especially if he/she has picked up a load of school kids.
[If I'm not mistaken, the cord can be pulled continuosly and can become a real irritant to the driver especially if he/she has picked up a load of school kids.]
Nope. The bell can be rung once on these buses too. It's those old RTS buses on Green, Triboro, Jamaica, and Command where multiple bell rings can happen. They all have the strips and no "Stop Requested" signs, too.
It's a matter of the electrical connections that ring the bell, not the method. The origin of the pull cord was that it actually DID ring a bell. But even on the last of the fishbowls, it just pulled a switch. It's a simple matter of using a switch that doesn't reset until anoter switch is activated.
-Hank
I find any bus lacking a "STOP REQUESTED SIGN" will let you ring multiple times.
Additionally, most buses allow it to be disabled. They used to use an ancient Flxible New Look (#8652) to serve the 8:11 M4 that all the school-kids took, and frequently some joker would yank that cord multiple times. The regular drivers took to flipping the switch and disabling the bell as we climbed the hill approaching the junior and senior high schools.
Crhsi
Pull-cords are better, because, all things being equal, they require less maintenance. Push-tapes require sub-surface wiring, while the pull-cord arrangement does not. But if a cord is vandalized, a larger piece needs replacement.
Binghamton's 2000 Orion low-floors use pull cords, and the 1995 Orion Vs have both. Sacramento Regional Transit uses cords, with extensions that go down the sides, so a person with short reach can still request a stop.
Almost all Orions have the push-button over the exit doors.
Elias
The wiring is already there, is is not likely to be vandalized. The strips themselves have electrical contacts that complete the circuit when pressed. They're low maintainence in their entirety, sincethere is no mechanical component.
-Hank
>>> The strips themselves have electrical contacts that complete the circuit when pressed. They're low maintainence in their entirety, since there is no mechanical component. <<<
The biggest problem with the strips is detecting a failure. With cords there are only one or two electric switches that can be tested by pulling the cord, and the cords can be given a quick visual inspection. With touch strips each section has to be pressed to locate any failures. Because the strips are so reliable, many maintenance organizations overlook testing, and as time goes by the passengers have to hunt for a strip that works.
Tom
But when one is noted as defective, it takes only 10 minutes to replace it with a new strip.
-Hank
I don't know if Midwestern transit systems are of great interest in this forum, but if anybody would like information on Metro Bs and Ds owned by the University of Michigan, I can hook you up. Let me know.
Does anyone know why the new LI Orions have fixed windows, with subway car type swing windows on top? This arrangement sucks, because it assumes fail-safe A/C. Even then, it's nice to have windows that open. Also, how many buses are in this order? I have seen up to number 332.
Believe it or not, those tip in windows provide great area flow. We have those over at NJT Transit and the air flows throughout the bus evenly and cools down nicely.
The subway sucks because you are underground and that's stale air circulating around the cars.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
www.flxible.org
The windows on the new buses are better. They circulate cool air into the top part of the bus, allowing better circulation. They also look pretty sleek.
I had 303 going home on the N21 tonight. Those new buses are the fastest things we'd ever had.
One of the Cummins buses, 280 wasn't too lucky tonight though. Saw it on Northern Blvd just after Utopia broken down with maint. truck onsite. 280 is just a few years old, but it has one of those POS Cummins engines, thus it has the same damn problems all the other Cummins buses have. I sure wish they'd replace all the Cummins with the series 50G being used in the new CNG buses.
Last night going home I almost ran out of luck when 168 could barely make it up several hills.
"Cummins....I think I can....I think I can.....I can't!"
[Also, how many buses are in this order? I have seen up to number 332.]
I'm not 100% positive, but I recollect seeing somewhere that the new bus order was for 67 buses. As 288 is the first new one, the highest number should be 354. Again, this info is very sketchy in my memory, so don't depend on it to be very accurate.
You are right there are 67 in this order. So far approximately 56 have been received and placed into service.
A driver told me all the Gilligs are gone. :-)
What has replaced the 35 foot Gilligs on the JFK Flyer?
Then why was I running with a Gillig along Hillside ave today around 10a.m. while operating the Q3? Before you ask, No, I didn't pay attention to what route it was operating on.
BIG AL
LIB hasn't put all the new Orion's into service yet so there are still 2 or 3 Gilligs that are being used, especially during peak periods. You probably saw 536, 550 or 559 on Hillside Ave.
I've been riding alot of the new 300s on the N21 lately. I've been quite impressed with the performance, fast quiet acceleration and handles the hills pretty good, much better than the L10G buses.
And fortunately there's plenty to go around. So I guess the transition is going smoothly, as I'm suprised that LI Bus isn't having any "breaking in" problems getting adjusted to this latest order of busses. Unfortunately though, it looks like the magic marker vandals have gotten to the new buses, 354 had a cartoon scrawled on one of the rear windows.
BTW, while riding one of the Cummins buses today on the N23 I found a pad of a few defect sheets in the back of the bus. I took it and noticed all the different things they have in the checklist.
Under doors it listed a box for "no interlock". Does this mean a defective back door?
Of course I got a kick out of what it said under
Engine
x No Power
x Smokes
x Overheat
x Stalls
I'd mark all of the above for those Cummins L10G engines which do all of the above quite frequently, though NYCT bus 675 smoking condition I saw the other day tops anything I've seen at LI Bus.
I was told that Mother Hale Depot is supposed to receive Orion VII hybrid buses next year. At least 150 of them. During the last bus festival in Downtown Brooklyn, an MTA worker told me this surprising info, but he mentioned that there were no pictures yet. I'll see if I can find out what they look like. (Coliseum should get Orion VII CNG buses when that depot opens.)
From the back of the rear exit door forward, they are just like the Orion VI.
From the back fo the rear exit door backward, they are just like the Orion V.
They are very similar to the New Flyer Low Floor in that there is a step just back of the rear door.
The front windshield will have a stylish flair, in the the right hand side will slope down at the bottom so the dash is not so high.
I messed up and failed to correct the numbers and depot locations
125 Orion VII Hybrid CNG are on order and should arrive August 2001 through February 2002 and will go to Manhattanville
125 Orion VII CNG buses are on order and will most likely be placed at Mother Cara Hale or Jackie Gleason
A RFP for 175 Low Floor Hybrid buses is in the works
A RFP for 130 Low Floor CNG buses is in the works
It would have to be Jackie Gleason getting the Orion VIIs's CNG's. MH is not CNG's ready. Jackie Gleason is for what I heard before leaving are spouse to go to all low floor or you might be thinking of Coliseum is were the CNG's VII's are going next year.
Robert
if you do theres good news. mabstoa is taking applications until mid november. there is no test. they will use alottery to pick applicants. get todays ny post for an application.
why did they decide to do it by lottery?
Dats oh-tay. I'd wadder brive a dwain. Dose buses aw too stwessfoo.
you know, now I'm going to be a little bit nervous about taking a bus in new york now. Where is MABSTOA again exactly?
buses 2705-2734 have been delivered to yukon depot. at present 2705-2715,2717,2718, and 2720 are in service. orions 140-155 have been sent to castleton and 616-630 are on the way to qv. this should allow for the retirement of the 1982 queens express buses.
Saw 620, 623 and 629 on the X68 today.
X68#623Gary
Where is the Coliseum Bus Depot?
When will it reopen?
How many CNG buses will be there? Will they be parked indoors? Refueled indoors?
How many hybrid buses (if any) will be there?
[Where is the Coliseum Bus Depot?]
The site is on E. 177th Street, just off the Sheridan Expressway. The original building actually was a coliseum (or, at least, some form of sports arena), moved piece-by-piece from Philadelphia. The new building will be a bus garage, and thus might deserve a name other than "Coliseum."
-----
[When will it reopen?]
The original building was demolished, and thus will not reopen. The HOPE is that the new building can be ready for business sometime next year. Keep hoping!!
----
[How many CNG buses...? fueled indoors? ...hybrid buses?]
Transit's Department of Buses doesn't even know which buses will be assigned where next week. Anything that's even being considered now can change numerous times in the intervening months. Within the month prior to the opening date, a (somewhat) clear picture of Coliseum's fleet may develop.
It will be in the Bronx. You can see it from the 2 line between 174St and E.Tremont Ave stations.
BM34x
...and fron the Cross-Bronx Expressway. Notice there are signs hanging from the ironwork that say the following:
GO
YANKS!BEAT
THE
METS!
250 Orion VII CNG's, undetermined number of electric buses (I got
this from geocities.com, I think.
In order to access the NJT & NYCTA Bus GIFs on my site you must do the following:Click on the RTS below,then click on the RTS on the Index page,and finally click on "Buses,Other Subways,and LRV GIFs.
Trevor Logan,
I would like to know if NYCT has once again change the express bus fleet, if so, please post the latest information on bustalk.
You are dense! And there you go asking questions on the board of individuals again. If you do this, proper manners say you use E Mail. Why don't you follow the board, and scrool down looking for the info from the other posts? It is on the board! It is coming down to the point that those who can answer you won't because you are worse than a whining 4 year old brat.
Thank You Bill, Just can't stress it enough! Though I get access to alot of the fleet information, It's a bit of a hassle to post everything I recieve here. I will only post here what is major!
I post the information I get on a roster on my site at www.transitalk.com, please check out bus moves and fleet stuff there on our MTA-NYC Bus and Subway Rosters.
Thank You!
Trevor Logan
It was a long and arduous process, but I believe that I have compiled a fairly accurate roster, with fleet numbers, of WMATA buses.
It took three trips to DC (I live in Detroit) and on the third trip,
sitting on the side of Colesville Road about a block from the Silver Spring Metro Station with a clipboard and pen for about an hour and a half, but I think I got it...
First, I will give in ascending numerical order what I think is the current Metrobus fleet:
(All buses are 40 feet in length unless otherwise noted, or for Flx Metros, translate the dimensions from the model number)
------------------------------------------------------------------
2001-2100 ? : 2000 Orion VI 06.501
My last trip to WMATA territory was before these buses were in service, so this is the batch about whose numbering I am least sure.
2101-2230 : 2000 Orion V 05.501
Same as above. Judging from pictures I've seen on the web, the new Orion V's are numbered completely apart from the 1998 models. Also, these buses appear to feature Luminator destination signs rather than the Vultron equipment of the 4200's.
3700's : 1999 Orion II 02.501 26 foot
I'm not sure how many of these there are, but they sure are ugly and turn up regularly in front of Union Station on the D4 and also on the Adams-Morgan shuttles.
3901-3950 : 1998 Orion V 05.505 30 foot
Used on lighter routes in DC, also spotted at the Pentagon. Good choice in buying these instead of van-buses.
4001-4104 : 1995 Flxible Metro D 40102-4-1
I do not know enough about the Flxible Metro 'E' designation which Transitalk claims these buses are, so to me, they are Metro D's. Unlike Metrobus's other "New" Flxible Metros, this batch reverts to rear mounted air conditioning. Note that these buses have Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines, the first Flxible order entirely equipped with DDC powertrains since the 80's.
4201-4412 : 1998 Orion V 05.501
I think this order is second only to the AM Generals as the largest single procurement in WMATA's history. Hopefully these will hold up better. They sport Vultron destination signs which are nice when they work, but they seem to malfunction frequently. Some or all of the 4400's have high-back seating for use on the 14 SmartMover line between suburban Virginia and Maryland.
5080-5099 ? : 1988 Gillig Phantom 30 foot
The only Gillig buses in the fleet, used mostly on lighter duty Anacostia routes. I'm not certain about the numbers. It would be interesting to see more Phantoms in Metrobus colors.
5101-51xx : 1983 M-A-N SG 310 60 foot
These second-generation artics are still hard at work, mainly in the Maryland suburbs from my observations. I rode 5118 in 1999, it was in good condition. At least one has been repainted in the newer color scheme. There are 29 buses of this type on the roster, but I have seen fleet numbers as high as 5133, so I am not sure about how many there were to begin with.
5150-5184 ? : 1989 Flxible Metro B 30096-6T-1
Again, not sure about these numbers. In March 2000, I did not see any of these vehicles in WMATA service, but several were wearing Ride On colors operating on the "Bethesda 8" (every eight minutes) shuttle. I believe that Ride On has other WMATA 5100's for use on other routes.
5201-5245 : 1995 Ikarus 436 60 foot
In my opinion, the coolest looking buses in the current WMATA fleet. Used extensively on the Georgia Avenue Line (70/71) from the center city to Silver Spring.
8701-8850 : 1986 Flxible Metro A 40102-6T-1
With such a huge fleet of Metros, it appears that WMATA got a pretty late start purchasing them. These are the first ones, half are lift-equipped. Most are still in service in the old colors.
8851-8951 : 1987 Flxible Metro A 40102-6T-1, 40102-6C-1
More "typical" Metrobuses, some with Cummins engines this time.
9001-9115 : 1979 GMC RTS T8W 603
Most RTS's were withdrawn upon the arrival of the Orions, although I understand a few linger in active service. The RTS's are my least favorite Metrobuses to ride from an interior standpoint. The "cap" over the original slopeback is obvious on these buses. Some are in bad condition, some look pretty good.
9201-9239 : 1988 Flxible Metro B 40102-6T-1
WMATA tends to feature 9200's often in Metrobus publicity. Most of these appear to operate on routes in the city.
9240-9278 : 1988 Flxible Metro B 40096-6T-1, 40096-6C-1
Narrow, non-accessible versions of the lower 9200's. There is obviously some need for narrower buses somewhere in the system if WMATA bought 102" and 96" buses in the same year, but I'm not sure where. I suspect that some of these have suburban seating configurations.
9301-9413 : 1990 Flxible Metro B 40102-6C-1
Cummins powertrain becomes the new Flxible Metrobus standard with this order. Other than that, nothing special. Most have been repainted.
9414-9456 : 1990 Flxible Metro B 40096-6C-1
Again, narrow, non-accessible Metros. Rode 9426 and 9455 on lines which both use 102" buses interchangably, the 42 and the P6, respectively.
9480-9497 ? : 1990 Flxible Metro B 35102-6C-1
35-foot Metros used in the city on lighter routes.
9601-9660 : 1992 Orion V 05.501
A strange break in the almost entirely Flxible purchases of this era. Anyone know why? Save some 9650's, almost all 9600's have been repainted, and except for the difference in interiors, destination sign, and rear marker lights, they are almost identical to the 4200's. Too bad, I really like how these look in the old colors. Detroit Diesel 6V92TA engines.
9701-9785 : 1993 Flxible Metro D 40102-6C-1
First Metro D's, with squared back. These also have roof-mounted a/c.
Rebuilt, repainted ones have the newer style Metro tailligts. Also, first Metrobuses to have Luminator Megamax destination signs. About half were repainted as of March 2000.
9801-9835 : 1994 Flxible Metro D 40102-6C-1, 40102-4T-1
Quite similar to 9700's, some have suburban interiors. Metrobus begins to flirt with Detroit Diesel again on this order after using Cummins on hundreds of early 90's Flxs.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A bit of Metrobus numbering recent history:
Flxible New Looks (53096-8-1) were 8000-8614. Scattered 8400's and 8500's were active in March 2000. Some of these were lift equipped. Did the new Orions kill these, too?
Although Metrobus prominently operated numerous GM New Looks until August, and I like to remain optimistic that a few can still be seen active, WMATA itself never purchased a single one new. In fact, they did not even bother to renumber the ones which they inherited. As recently as March 2000, about 100 GM New Looks were on the prowl, and they occupied these series:
1300 / 1400 / 1500 / 2500 / 3600 / 3800 / 6400 / 6500 / 6600
I know that the 6400-6500-6600's came from DC Transit and were numbered for the year in which they were delivered. I'm uncertain about the sources of the other GM's. An excellent list of recently active, now-retired Metrobuses can be found on the WMATA website under surplus materials. New Look fans, be careful. I got all choked up looking at this sad list.
The infamous AM Generals were 7000-7499 (9640A-8) and 7500-7619 (9635A-6). Not a single one of these made it past 1991. The only redeeming quality of this batch was the zero-rooted fleet numbering. Imagine if those had been GM New Looks (sigh), they would still be around.
WMATA's first artics were 55-foot M-A-N SG 220's somewhere in the 5000's. These were purchased exclusively for service on Benning Road bus lines, I'm not sure if they spent their whole careers there.
There were also 75 1983 Neoplan AN-440-A's, I think these buses also wore 5000-series numbers. In my opinion, these buses should still be in service.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The "deceptive year numbering" caused me A LOT of confusion, particularly 8701-8951 because the first two digits are so close to the year the bus was made.
Here is the logic that combatted any chance of year numbering on Flxibles:
9300's are clearly Metro B's. Any Metro made in 1993 would have been a Metro D.
The 9414-9456 narrow batch are not wheelchair accessible. Any bus made in 1994 would have had to be accessible.
There are Flxibles numbered in the 9700's and 9800's. Flxible went out of business in 1995.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
My Metrobus numbering commentary:
For the 2000 Orions, why go to the 2000's? Would it have not made sense to number the V's 4413-4542? At least 4501-4630?
What happened to the 9500 series?
Why does WMATA choose to start new bus number batches at xx01 rather than xx00? I realize a lot of transit systems do this, but unless the first two digits have some specific relavance to the bus (i.e. year made or number of seats) then there is no good reason not to start at xx00. The WMATA rail fleet numbers all start at xx00. I rode car # 1000 on the Red Line, I presume that was the first ever production Metro car.
At the time of the delivery of the 30 foot Metros (5100's), was there really such a scarcity of numbers that these buses had to share a series with other buses twice their length?
------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a little mad at Metrobus right now for getting rid of the GM New Looks, but I still find their fleet very interesting. I and probably everyone else would appreciate it if anyone could add to, clarify, or correct that which I have posted here.
Thanks,
Neil Greenberg
from the city with the third worst transit system in North America
nagreenb@umich.edu
I rode car #1000 on the red line this morning and it is NOT the first car they recieved. Its mate, 1001, came first. This information is in "The Story of Metro" which is out of print. I am not sure who the author is.
They have that book at the Library. Maybe I could take it out one day with more info. Do you know which section it is in?
Sounds like you had a lot of fun tracking all of these buses down. Great job. The 9500 series were the Neoplans. They were used mainly on the Southeast routes. As far as I know, they had some kind of body defect that kept a lot of them off the road. I don't have any pictures of them, but I know for a fact they were numbered in the 9500's. Metro's numbering really doesn't have too much logic to it. The numbers never matched the year in which they were built, except maybe the GM fishbowls from 6300 to 6700, but other than that, it was pretty random. I think because they normally buy more than 100 at a time, there is no way that they could match the year in which they were made unless they went to a 5 digit numbering system.
The Flxibles in the 8900's go to 8975 and the 9200's go to at least 9288, but the rest of the roster looks pretty accurate.
I saw my first repainted Flxible Metro in the 4000's yesterday. It was 4048 operating on the 4B going to Seven Corners.
I saw 4071 a few weeks ago and got a picture of it next to 4073 which is still in the old scheme. 4071 is pretty ugly with the new scheme.
Wow, where have you been for the last few years? I'm still trying to look for Flxible Metros that were NOT repainted. Also, there is a picture of a Neoplan bus in the book "The Story of Metro" that WMATAGMOAGH mentioned before. I can't really put it online, but that's where it is, in the section of other transit companies. At least, I think so.
The book is "The story of Metro: transportation and politics in the nation's capital," by Ronald H. Deiter, (c) 1985. It's published by the Interurban Press of Glendale, Calif.
I think this volume is out of print; I got mine (a first printing) from an elderly friend who was jettisoning his transit-books collection in preparation for a move to a retirement community, but I'm sure it may turn up at used book shops, and considering its relevance to the DC area, I'm sure a number of libraries have it.
The alluded-to picture of the Neoplan is on page 23, along with that ubiquitous shot of the MAN artic (#5119) in front of the Jefferson Mem that used to be on the front of all WMATA bus schedules.
Great work on the roster; I haven't read it real closely but you might note that the '99 Orion IIs number 40 in all, fleet #'s 3701-3740, used exclusively in DC since they were purchased by the DC government. Great job!
Chris
Few comments. One of the SmartMover buses (I forget which one, look for an old post for the answer) has been stripped of its SmartMover decorations for regular service. I last saw it at Bethesda on the J8. Also, the WMATA operated Ride-On buses are not doing the 92 anymore. They are on Ride-On 36 (Bradley Blvd.) among other routes. I've seen them in the northern part of the county as well. They are in WMATA service in WMATA colors on the V1 bus in Virginia.
Orion II are on the N6, D2, 98, 99, D4, N8, E6, M4 and D8 among other routes. I have to agree, they are pretty ugly.
All Orion V and Orion VI buses except 9601-9660 have interior signs and announcements.
Ikarus Aritcs are also found on the J2/J3 (I imagine J1 as well).
I would imagine bus 9343 (Silver Bus) would have a wheelchair lift. According to your list, it doesn't.
When buses are "repainted" they are actually refurbished. Noticeable differences in refurbished buses are LED turn signals and brake lights and the ones with the AC unit on top now have one less exhaust pipe.
They choose to start at xx01 so they know how many units they actually have. For instance, if an order is numbered 1000-1099, you actually have 100 units. If you number them 1001-1100, this is easier to realize.
Adding to Oren's insightful remarks, all Orion IIs are also equipped with the Clever Logic interior LED signs and announcements.
Chris
My bad. Thanks for the addendum.
Wow, that really sounds hard to do. Anyway, I thought the RTS buses were TMC buses, since they had those flat rear doors. Oh well, maybe I'm wrong.
I'll have to take a look at the Flxible Metros 9700-9800's that have only one exhaust in them. You'd think I'd be able to tell after being cut off by 9817 coming off of Gallows Rd. onto the ramp to Arlington Blvd. Nothing like just flying through the yield as everyone else had the light and were making a left turn as he came careening around the corner and almost clipped a van. If I had my cell phone I would have reported that idiot.
The back doors of the RTS's were retrofitted several years ago after the original ones used to fly open unexpectedly. Years ago, a few kids were ejected from the bus as the L8 was going around Chevy Chase Circle and the the back doors flew open. One girl was run over by the bus, but survived. It was bus 9048, if I'm not mistaken. It was impounded and everything until the legal stuff was taken care of. I was also on a Q2 one time that had that happen, but nobody got hurt, luckily. The only good thing that happened with this bus vs. the one that threw the kids out was the interlock came on stopping us, but 9048's interlock did not work correctly, or else that girl would not have been run over. Although, it could have propelled people forward since it would have slammed to a stop.
The NEW Orions star at #2000 even!
I should now ha been init.
Just thoght you might want to know.
Blue
Can any of you WMATA fans please provide a route/vehicle assignment listing? Thanks.
WMATA's fleet is going all over the place due to the new Orions coming in as well as repainting a lot of the other ones. So, I think there is a lot of bus swapping going on as I have been seeing a lot of buses that used to be in Md. operating in VA or DC and vice versa. Back in the days of the Fishbowls and the Flx New Looks, it was easier to figure out where each bus came from since it seemed like they were sent to each garage in groups rather than a few here and a few there.
As far as a route assignment, I had something on here awhile back with what I thought was where they come from, but I don't know where it is at the moment. I also believe Trevor is going to have something on his website soon as well about the routes of WMATA.
According to an official Metrobus source, upon the arrival of new Metrobuses, they are distributed equally across the region. This actually seems to be the case. From my experience, just about any type of bus can be seen anywhere in the region. The major exceptions that I can think at the moment are that articulated buses rarely (if ever) appear in Virginia, and I believe the 20 Phantoms are confined to Anacostia routes.
However, there are some lines where it would be more likely to find a particular type of bus as opposed to another.
Orions are becoming the most present type of bus on the Pennsylvania Avenue lines (30,32,34,35,36). I recall one day where I did not see a single Flx on these lines at any point of the day (and trust me, I was paying good attention.)
The 42 Mt Pleasant line seems like the only city line on which Orions do not yet dominate. Although in 1999, I remember seeing a lot of 9600's on the 42.
I am not too familiar with the 52/53/54 lines, but I recall seeing a pretty standard mix of Orions and Flxibles here.
The 60 lines seemed almost entirely Orion.
Georgia Avenue lines 70/71 almost always use the 5200 Ikarus artics. I'm not sure if this is also the case at night and on weekends.
The 80 North Capitol Street line had a lot of 9700's at work last I remember.
As far as suburban lines go, I am still looking for routes which -require- a narrower bus and use 9250-9288 or 9414-9456.
I have lost A LOT of interest in the fleet since the departure of the New Looks. It was really fun trying to track those babies down; it seemed like they could haphazardly appear on any line during rush hour, Maryland, Virginia, or DC. If I saw a New Look passing in the distance, my heart would skip a beat and I would not be able to take my eyes off it.
Now that it's almost all Orions or Flxibles no matter when or where or which route, it's not quite as fun. I take it some routes still have certain mainstay buses just as a habit of the people who assign specific buses to specific runs (I would LOVE to have that job) but the fleet just is not as fun as it was even a few months ago.
Oh well. Maybe around 2010, when transit systems start retiring the last Flxibles, WMATA will be one of the last TA's to have Flxible Metros in service.
Neil Greenberg
nagreenb@umich.edu
ĦQue viva el subjuntivo!
I haven't seen any Orion VI's operating out of the Montgomery Lot. I drove past it the other day and only saw Orion V's, Flx Metros and the artics. Maybe they haven't all arrived yet. The only time I ever say an artic operating in Va. was when National Airport opened their new terminal and they were shuttling people from the Pentagon parking lot to the airport. I heard that originally, some of the Ikarus artics were supposed to be assigned to the 16 line in Arlington, but for one reason or another ended up in Md. and DC only.
I've seen the 9250-9288 buses on the N7, E2-4, and some of the 90's. I think the rush hour routes use whatever junk is available. 9285-9288 used to come out of Montgomery as I remember them on the Q2 once in awhile (very fun at rush hour with everyone crammed in the narrow aisles). Then, they magically appeared in the Landover division routes as I used to ride 9284 and 9286 on the F2 and F6.
Beats me what goes on there, I've given up figuring them out. WMATA even had a chance to order over the road coaches but that was denied by the board of supervisors.
You'll still see Flxs around in 2010 if metro keeps up their rehab program.
The Georgia Ave 70/71 also has many Flxible Metros. Their are older Flxible Metros on the 70/71 too, but usually I see tne Flxible Metro D (9700/9800 series).
Wayne
I saw a 4000 series Orion V on the 42 two weeks ago.
All the Orion VIs I've seen operate out of Bladensburg. None are at Montgomery or Western (Montgomery refers to the T2 and L8).
I've seen an Orion Vi operate on the F4. Also, i saw one operating in Langly Park. I'm not sure if it was in Service or not, though.
Where does the F4 operate from?
I'm not really sure where it goes, but I think it serves the PG (Prince Georges) plaza.
My guess is that it goes out of Landover.
Yeah, the F4 comes out of Landover. It operates from Silver Spring to New Carrollton, as does the F6. The other Orion VI you saw in Langley Park may well have been on the F8 that runs from Langley Park to Cheverly and also comes out of Landover.
I also spotted 4024 on the 42 coming through Dupont Circle around 10 PM tonight headed to Mt. Pleasant and it was packed to the doors. I guess a lot of people were getting off of work then or something, but that was very strange to see so late at night. Another bus on its way to Mt. Pleasant a while earlier actually stopped at a crosswalk to let people cross the street as well and he had the right of way. I thought I was in the bizarro world! I was afraid to step in front of him at first as I was expecting him to wait for us to get in front and he'd floor it.
What is expected to happen when Coliseum Depot in the Bronx opens? Last year, I was notified by an Amsterdam driver that Mother Hale, 126th Street, Amsterdam, and Hudson Pier Depots were to close, and Coliseum along with 100th Street(whenever it gets rebuilt) will open. What lines will operate out of Coliseum? No one knows yet, but I would like to know.
Amsterdam and Hudson will close when Coliseum is completed.
Who is the person who decided to run 40 foot buses on the 38 today? That person clearly doesn't think since the 38 runs through neighborhoods and has some pretty tight turns. The buses manage but don't belong there.
Also, I saw (for the first time) and rode 995410 from Rockville Pike and Montrose Road to Medical Center. This is the northern silver bus. The southern is 975409 and was on the L8 and 1 today. I saw it at Friendship Heights. I didn't have my camera with me so I was unable to take pictures of either (any shot I took of 5409 would have been pretty bad). I do have pics of 5409 on my website.
I saw a 40 foot Orion on the 35 this morning as I was going to Wheaton Plaza. Those go down some tight streets too, but I guess doable since Metro used to operate the C2 to Montgomery Mall over the same path as the 35 does now. A 40 footer on the 38 is pretty suicidal, especially when it turns off of Viers Mill Road and heads through that old neighborhood. I'm sure the Potomac people weren't too thrilled either.
I haven't taken the 38 east of White Flint. That thing is HUGE! We went up on the median at Rockville Pike and when we turned from Postoak Drive onto Victory Lane, if there was a car heading north on Victory, we would have had a hard time making that turn. The speed bumps on Poastoak weren't that bad and I got off before the ones on Gainsbourogh but Gainsborough south of Bells Mill with a 40 foot bus must be a disaster. I can't complain though since we didn't make any stops from White Flint until I wanted to get off.
I saw 5709 on the 35 heading towards Wheaton at 2:30 at Medical Center. I think I passed this bus while it was heading on the 38 to Montgomery Mall and I was on my Wheaton bound 38 on my way to the silver bus trip on the 46.
Wow, well, I guess Ride on doesn't have enough available buses to not make that a 40ft bus route.
Wow, well, I guess Ride on doesn't have enough available buses to not make that a 40ft bus route. Maybe they need to reroute the route.
Who is the person who decided to run 40 foot buses on the 38 today? That person clearly doesn't think since the 38 runs through neighborhoods and has some pretty tight turns. The buses manage but don't belong there.
Also, I saw (for the first time) and rode 995410 from Rockville Pike and Montrose Road to Medical Center. This is the northern silver bus. The southern is 975409 and was on the L8 and 1 today. I saw it at Friendship Heights. I didn't have my camera with me so I was unable to take pictures of either (any shot I took of 5409 would have been pretty bad). I do have pics of 5409 on my website.
Also took the 42 from Medical Center to get home and the driver made everyone sit (you weren't allowed to stand). This meant when 5 people got on at one stop, we couldn't move until everyone was arranged properly. This was contractor owned bus 119.
Also, my 46 silver bus driver moved into the left lane to turn into Naval Hospital, then asked "Does anyone need to go to the Naval Hospital?" No one answered so he moved back into the right lane to go to Medical Center. If anyone was waiting at the Naval Hospital, they were out of luck. We were 10 minutes late, though. The fact I was able to get one silver bus and see the other one in the same day is pretty amazing and wouldn't have happened if the 46 wasn't late.
I wonder why they had to sit down. Weren't there any rails on the bus? (That guy is really wierd probably)
No. THere is also a sign saying "FASTEN SEAT BELTS". The bus in question, 119 is operated by ATE/Ryder. I wonder what happens on that bus when there are more passengers than seats.
hmm, is ATE/Ryder a private company, or does it work with Ride-On or another big company.
ATE/Ryder operates some Ride-On routes under contract to Montgomery County, mainly on routes with shuttle-bus-type vehicles (they use Starmark, Aerotech, and some other brands, mostly on Ford E350 or E-Super Duty chassis). I'm not sure if MC or ATE/R owns these vehicles; they all have a stickers saying "Operated by ATE/Ryder Transportation Solutions" or something to that effect.
Chris
Are they painted in Ride-On colors, are in a different pain scheme?
They're painted in Ride-On colors. They're every way a Ride-On bus, save the sticker indicating their operation by ATE.
Chris
ATE Ryder also runs the Fairfax Connector routes in VA. I'm not a huge fan of contractor operated service as it takes jobs away from Metro operators. But WMATA is getting into the contracting business themselves, as seen on the Ride On routes that WMATA buses painted as Ride Ons. Also, Metro operates PRTC commuter bus service from Prince William County, VA to DC and the Pentagon. The buses are owned by PRTC, but are driven by metro employees.
OK - I guess that would explain why I once saw a PRTC MCI D3 in Four Mile Run division lot.
Wayne
I had occasion to go to Pittsburgh briefly, arriving last night around midnight and leaving today at about 2 pm (got home around 6). I was actually there to visit Carnegie Mellon University and didn't get to walk around downtown and mingle with the buses, but from what I saw, their local authority, "PaTransit" or something like that -- they have an initially-inscrutably logo that distorts the characters almost as badly as SF's muni -- operates a number of interesting buses. This morning, I saw a bunch go by my hotel, including a Flxible Metro-D, NABI (I think), and Orion V with top-vent-style windows. Their paint scheme is primarily red. Don't know much about their system other than that, though ... anyone familiar with the area?
Then coming home I got stuck behind a pair of Coach USA MCIs on the Beltway (I-495). Smelly!
Chris
PAT in Pittsburgh is a mess. I live there and witness it daily although I lost a lot interest in them several years ago and haven't kept up in the system as much as I should have.
The logo you refer to is actually rather decent compared to the "G" logo they are in the process of switching to. The paint scheme is switching from red and white to gold and pastel metallic with triangles, circles, "G"'s and squares slapped on the sides and back of the bus which look like someone took a can of that silly string and sprayed it all over the bus. I prefer the old red and white with the PATransit logo over the "Gold Standard of Service" setup.
The NABI articulateds are underpowered junk. Most operators hate them. They have Neoplan AN460 artics as well, Those aren't quite as bad but have suburban seating in them which makes it hard to use them on city runs that they usually are on.
The 40 foot Flxibles we have aren't to bad although they break down alot and are slower than the rest of the fleet. Lately I've noticed alot of corrosion on the sides of these buses around the wheel wells.
The 40 and 35 foot Orion V's are rather good compared to what NY has. They do tend to overheat in the summer. Body wise they are in shape.
The Classics are pretty good except from the maintenance standpoint as they are difficult to work on and have a T drive shoved in which the bus wasn't designed for. Rather powerful, they are pretty well liked by the operators.
We still have a few AN440 and AN435 Neoplans from 83 which are the oldest coaches in the fleet as well as 1986 AN440's. These are not wheelchair equipped and are prone to a lot of rust due to steel construction.
They also have small school bus style coaches they use on smaller routes which are International with a Wolfington body. They aren't the most attractive looking things but they work better than shoving a 40 footer on some of the routes.
Most of the service problems here relate to the fact that service is now done with a twist based on marketing and not on providing decent service. Currently unless PAT can make a buck or milk a route for positive publicity, they have no interest in servicing that route.
Currently PAT is in it's fourth "era" in service. The four being the original era from 64-72, the second and most interesting (better known as the Geissenheimer era due to the MOD multi colored paint scheme) from 73-79, the third era which recalled the original days from 80-97 and the fourth era from 98 to current which is run more by the marketing department than operations.
RDChilds
I was going through PaTransit's(Pittsburgh,Pa) website and looked at their light rail system.
Guess what they call it? The T!!! And their logo is the same as Boston's except it has a white line through the T! Talk about lack of originality, geez!
But then again, PaTransit's new "G" logo like RDChilds pointed out has got to be the most ludicrous symbol for a transit system that I have ever seen. Do you remember the snickers when the MTA(NY) came out with their new symbol that everyone called the "pac man"? That's nothing. Check out this monstrosity for yourself at:
www.portauthority.org
The T symbol is at www.portauthority.org/ride/theT.html
Either way, that G symbol has got to go. But then again, I won't be seeing Pittsburgh anytime soon.
Don't forget that the Minneapolis/St Paul transit system was even more blatent in using the Boston "T" logo including the use of many marketing slogans such as "We're getting there" which were used in Boston first. For the first several years of MTC's existance I swore they had the same management since the PR campaign was identical to Bostons of a few years before.
RDChilds
That is pretty blatant. The swoopy "G" is also pretty odd-looking; I did see a bus with that but assumed it was something other than city transit.
Thanks for all the info, RDChilds. Looks like a pretty nice fleet. My hotel was on a McKnight Rd, basically a steep cut through a hill/small mountain, and these buses were making the grade just fine!
Chris
Yeah that Minneapolis "T" is blatant also(www.metrotransit.org).
But you gotta like a transit system which advertises on its opening page that it's selling used M.A.N. bus parts. Now that's a first.
I attended the Motor Bus Society Convention in Pittsburgh this past Spring, and PAT took our group on a tour of some of its facilities that Sunday. As a bus fan, I was quite impressed with the fleet, and rather liked the new paint schemes. As mentioned months ago, the GM of PAT came from Orlando, Florida, where "different" paint schemes on buses were the rule. Your post forgot to mention the newest buses in the fleet - Neoplan low-floor buses. We rode around in 2 of them that Sunday, and they seemed to ride very well. I am surprised to hear that the system is not well regarded by its ridership.
Yeah I did forget to mention them. Slipped my mind which surprises me as overall I do like them. I just wish they had a better paint job on them.
BTW, the Neoplan low floors all have structural problems (cracking bulkheads and structural supports) that are monitored on a weekly basis currently. Neoplan is supposed to start taking the buses back to fix the problems since they started to develop before the buses were six months old.
RDChilds
That's what happened to the DC Neoplans, but they just pulled them from service in the late '80s.
Chris
Krapf's Coaches, a private carrier in suburban Philly, had two Neo low floors about 5 years ago. Those buses spent more time in the shop than on the road, and were retired about 4 years ago. Until they recieved two Thomas TL960s (absolute junk) in 1998, they used older RTS-2s (one of which, 7901, is a 1979 RTS-2 which originally was methanol powered), Amtran flatnose schoolbuses, and MCI over the road coaches. Bleah.
The 1983 Neos were part of the massive PennDOT order in which numerous transit agencies in the Commonwealth recieved new (at the time, of course) buses. SEPTA's part of the order, IIRC, was either 8285-8434 (AK) or 8435-8584 (Neo BD). I think it was the BDs, since the AKs were wheelchair accessible.
As of a year ago, LANTA in Allentown still operated their Neos, while other systems (Lancaster's Red Rose Transit, Luzerne County, and Reading's BARTA) retired their Neos in recent years.
Just got back from the Falls and it was great seeing Fishbowls still in operation there. In fact they have digital destination signs.
In Toronto I saw the red streetcars and buses. Not sure what the buses were, looked like MCI's or am Generals.
The Toronto buses can't be AMG's. Probably were Flyers.
RDChilds
Does anyone know what frequency the New York City Transit buses operate on? Does each borough have its own, or is each borough different?
The NYCTA operates on an 800 MHZ trunked system,utilizing many frequencies. If you have a trunk tracker scanner (Radio Shack and Bearcat manufacture them) you'll have a good chance of hearing the particular depot you wish to hear.You can monitor them on a regular( non-trunk tracker radio), but you'll be unable to follow a particular conversation completely.Radio Shack has a book entitled "'Police Call" which is published and updated yearly.This book has the frequencies and ID codes for NYCTA listed,so you can program what you want to hear.
I am also a scanner buff,and I do have a Radio Shack PRO-92 Trunk Tracker scanner,which I am pleased with,and I reccomend for those who wish to monitor NYCTA easily .I monitor transit and bus frequencies in addition to Police,Fire,EMS,etc.Bus frequencies do make for interesting listening.Plus,if the bus is running late or breaks down,you'll have the advance scoop.
Mark Watson
Here is the World Series R142 (Cars #6311-6320):
ENJOY!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
www.flxible.org
Cool pics. Now lets see the #7 wrapped in Mets colors.
And Let's hope they're kept after the series is over. Reminds me of the R33/36 World's Fair cars named after some of the states. Its nice to make a couple of cars distinctive.
OOOH, look, subway pics in the BUSTALK forum! Hey David, this one's off-topic too! When are you going to start bitching?
-Hank
When I was in Flushing today I saw a Stengal Orion sitting on Roosevelt with the destination sign Bx13 Yankee Stadium. What the heck was it doing there?
I guess it may have substituted for a Bx13 bus that broke down, so I guess NYCT buses can display all signs for all routes in NYC.
But not LIB, right?
All NYCT buses can display any NYCT route sign. The caveat is that they're not all updated at the same time, so some buses may not have some of the newer readings.
As to why a bus in Queens would have a "Yankee Stadium" reading, I guess the location of Casey Stengel Depot (across from Shea Stadium) doesn't matter to some Bus Operators :-) [Please, let's not go off topic and talk about the World Series. We've got enough of that garbage on SubTalk.]
David
The bus operator is a Yankee fan
Probably true. I have a slide in my collection of a FP bus outside the new maintance facility with the same BX13 reading from a few years ago. The other nite, some FP operator/Met fan had something which I never thought was in the database: Q84 Shea Stadium. The Q84 is technically a Randalls Island special MABSTOA route operating from 61 St./Roosevelt for special events.
I think you mean the x80 or x81,the q84 goes to Laurelton via Merrick Bl & 120 Ave
Yep, its the X84.
I believe the X83 displays yankee std but also has a line that
says 4/D TRAIN.
Shaun
Yes, you are correct. It was some 84 come to think of it. Probably the X84.
It is indeed. Many an express bus has been displaying either x84-Shea Stadium or Bx13-Yankee Stadium while waiting to enter the Yukon, or deadheading. I suppose it's the driver's way of showing support for their favorite teams. Only problem with the practice is that person seeing the x84 sign might assume the TA is running special service for Islanders.
-Hank
Routes X80 thru X86 are "promotional" shuttles for events at Randalls Island. They're designated "express" so that Transit can collect the $3 round-trip fare IN ADVANCE; after the event, in the interest of crowd dispersal, the buses just load and leave. (I've seen people leave those concerts without enough money for the bus.)
X80 duplicates the M35 from Lex & 125th. It's allowed for in all MaBSTOA depots, plus 126th Street and Casey Stengel.
X81 is the shuttle from Woodside LIRR. It's allowed for in all OA, plus 126, CS, and East New York.
X82 thru X86 (rarely used) are for remote parking at Yankee and Shea Stadiums plus alternate origins such as Dyckman Street, G. W. Bridge Terminal, and 145th & Broadway.
does anyone have complete bidirectional route maps or descriptions
The real bitch thing about that is that if you ever buy a ticket for a concert out there, the ticket price includes a parking fee. If you don't drive, you've paid for someone to park. But I'm sure the promoters of these events pay the TA something for the operation of the routes.
-Hank
Spotted NYCT's New Flyer Artic 5481 earlier this evening in the left lane of the Kennedy Expressway (I-94) just west of the Loop. It had evidently broken down during its eastward journey from the factory. A State of Illinois highway crew was in the process of hitching it to a heavy-duty tow truck. Here's hoping that your 5481 isn't jinxed, folks.
-Dan
Okay, let's see. As we all know, the WMATA is going to get rid of all of their RTSs and New Looks. I'm sure that we all have memories on these buses as they are about to be placed away to other companies, or to end their lives now.
For instance, I was always used to the RTSs. They were always on the K6, which was the route I basically rode the most. That was the route where I rode the MAN articulateds too. Anyway, how about you guys post at least one memory of a trip on the RTSs or the New Looks or "Fishbowls".
A while back, Montgomery County used to run all of the RTS's until they were split half and half with Va. So, while I went to Montgomery College for two years, I think I was able to ride just about ever one of the 115 RTS buses they owned. I will always remember the very first time I was even on one, which was back in 1979, on the old C2 from Beltway Plaza to Montgomery Mall. I was on it the first time I ever saw it, but don't remeber the number. The bus was equipped with solid windows that did not open and had a sloped back. I will also remeber being on bus 9110 on the old T6 when all of a sudden we got rear ended on Rockville Pike by Wintergreen Plaza. The car was really messed up but the bus just had a white strip of paint on the bumper.
I was on the New Looks and Fishbowls so much, I can't remember a specific thing about them. Getting to ride on a newly rehabbed Fishobowl, number 1413 back in 1985 was pretty cool.
I can recall some great runs on those RTS on the Q2 route. It really flies along Veirs Mill Road. The fishbowls I have far too many memories to even begin to list, including riding them when they were loaned to NYCTA in the early 80's.
Wayne
In March of this year, I was in Washington DC for a school trip to analyze the federal government, something in which I am mildly interested. We all really knew, though, that my alterior motive for going on the trip was for the transit.
Fortunately, the hotel at which we stayed was on Colesville Road, exactly one stone's throw from the Silver Spring Metro station.
The program for us students was very full, almost every minute was scheduled. For that reason, I always woke up an hour early to go observe transit at Silver Spring before any of the activities begun. The AM rush hour was nice, but I still wanted to see midday and PM action.
Finally, on a Wednesday afternoon, we had exactly ninety minutes of free time. I dashed to Silver Spring, keeping pace with an approaching GM New Look whose number I could not yet see, and then saw that it was going into service on the J3. I quickly pulled a handful of change out of my pocket, saw that the alleged New Look was 6625, and very enthusiastically stepped aboard. I could not wipe the smile off my face. I only rode halfway to Bethesda (my trip back was on 9660, could have been worse) but when I stepped off the rear doors of that New Look, I said to myself "I can now die a happy man." (As you can see, I still have a lot of livin' to do...)
The Friday of that week we had entirely to free time. We were not supposed to go off on our own, but I left the hotel at 5.30a, long before the program instructors would suspect that a teenager would voluntarily wake up. From 5.30a to 5.30p, I had some of the most intense twelve hours of transit research in the history of transit enthusiasm.
If anyone is interested, I can recap my entire itinerary. I rode dozens of vehicles and recorded every one.
But, sticking to the topic of this conversation, in those hours, I had the good forture to ride two buses which are now probably retired.
In the morning, I rode RTS 9055 up one of the 29 lines in Virginia. Honestly, while I like the way they look from the outside, the RTS's were my least favorite Metrobuses to ride (I had also been on 9067 in June 1999 on the same line.) The windows were very fogged and hard to see out of, the aisles were narrow (after all, they are RTS T8W 603's) and the seats were close together and uncomfortable. I will miss the variety the RTS's afforded the Metrobus fleet, but other than that, I am not devistated to see them go. Lest we forget that there are still several thousand RTS's at work for other transit systems, and I have a strange feeling that WMATA will buy NovaBUS RTS's in the not-too-distant future.
Later in the day, I was at Bethesda planning to take the SmartMover to Virginia. Suddenly, 2592 turned up on a westbound J2, and I could not resist.
I remember sitting on 2592, pretending that I was just on a "typical" Metrobus of which the styling would be around for many more years. I knew, though, that I was probably on that bus for one of the last months of the operation of that type of coach. Unfortunately, I was right.
At least I have my memories, and also dozens of pictures of various other New Looks I saw in service that week.
In March, the New Looks looked great, and the two I was on both had fully operational air conditioning. Metrobus ridership is skyrocketing, it's too bad that the new Orions cannot be additions rather than replacements. Even though they date back to 1962, I have faith that WMATA's venerable New Looks could soldier on for many more years.
Neil Greenberg
nagreenb@umich.edu
Okay, this happened when I was really little, so I don't really remember any of the specifics. One day we were riding the K6 to Fort Totten and we got a New Look. (I don't know which number it was, but the destination signs were certainly hard to read). Anyway, as I was riding it, I lost my first tooth when we got on it. It was one of my front teeth too, in case that matters. I'll always remember that bus trip, though. Too bad they are leaving. Also, the RTSs weren't that bad. I used to love mimicing the engine (Whenever I rode a bus I always tried to see if I could mimic the sound of the engine with my voice. As for Novabus, I highly doubt that WMATA will purchase those. No offense to those who may be proud of the RTS for some reason, but that is such a 1980's design. The modern design is boxy now, lol.
And the Orion V isn't??? I heard in NYC it was dubbed the "bubble butts". The Orion V is still a cool bus. One of the ugliest things on wheels has got to be the Orion II or as my non-railfan friends call them, the spaceships.
I still haven't had the great pleasure of riding one of those spaceships. I'm going to have to just one day force myself to Friendship Heights to ride the N6 or the E6 or go to Adams Morgan so I can ride the "Link".
WMATA is really mixing up the Flxible Metro fleet. I just spotted 8958 on the 4A to Culmore, which was originally a Northern Division route and yesterday, I saw 9351 coming out of the Montgomery Lot. That one used to be either a Virginia or a DC bus as well. I also noticed on PM rush hour last week a number of 8700 and 8800's deadheading back to the Montgomery Lot, which had yet to be repainted as well.
I think until all of the new Orions arrive, and all the other buses are repainted, there will be no way to pinpoint what buses go where as I think they are shifting them to regulate the mileages on the older ones, as well as giving replacements to others that lost buses due to being rehabbed.
First, to Neil, that account of riding the New Look really waxed poetic! Almost brought a tear to my eye when I read the bit of hyperbole about dying a happy man, but I was listening to Craig Mack and thus in a bouncy mood. But anyhow ...
I'm actually going to miss the RTSs that everyone else seems to hate, simply because I didn't get to ride them much. True, they were crappy vehicles, but they were so much different from other equipment at the time, and just rarer on the routes that I've habitually ridden over the past 7 or 8 years. I agree that NovaBus RTS are not likely to be in Metro's crystal ball; I instead forsee a future of Orion VIIs.
I'm really going to miss the New Looks and Fishbowls, but it took their loss to make me appreciate them. I used to groan when I'd see anemic Old Look Flxi 8652 cresting the hill to our bus stop, anticipating a slow, hot, crowded crawl to school. 'Course, I'd gladly trade in the Metro-B or Orion II that we usually get now to be able to ride that some more.
The buses I remember the most vividly were the 30-foot Flxible Metro Bs (5169-5174 were assigned to Western). They were so rattly, noisy, and bone-jarring to ride; I used to hate them. (It wasn't really the buses' fault but the seats and windows they were fitted with -- the later Metro Ds (4000-series)were equipped with Excel windows and the nicer padded seats that the 4200- and 2000-series Orions have, which made for a much quieter and nicer ride -- if only they'd equipped the earlier models as such. The windows in the Metro Bs were so damn noisy; it was a constant cacophony of rattling and squeaking, which got even more deafening when the bus went over a bump.
I remember these the most simply because I rode them the most -- '94-'98 when they were pulled from service -- usually from Tenleytown or Friendship Heights to go home. The 30-foot (3900) Orion Vs and 3700 Orion IIs that replaced them I haven't had such a love-hate relationship with, probably because I don't ride them as much; I drive more than take the bus these days. Those 5100s, by the way, are alive and well at Ride-On.
Anyway, keep sharin' those bus stories!
Chris
True. I saw some pretty odd things during the summer, but the assignments are a little more firmer now with the newer buses out of Western going to the 30s, and the older stuff going to the Ns and Ls. I saw Flxible Metro-Bs on the J1 and J2 a few weeks ago.
In my earlier post I failed to mention WMATA's new look Flxible 53096-6-1. Although the fishbowls are definitely my (and probably most of us) favorite old bus I was very fond of those Flxibles. In their last days I rode them a few times on the Q2, Y6 and Y8 routes.
It's interesting how my favorite new look buses were definitely the GM's and then from the start of the ADB era to this day the Grumman 870/Flxible was and continue to be my favorite - and I've learned to tolerate the RTS. When GM first came out with the 01 series RTS - I thought they were wierd looking.
Wayne
I would like to know on what Metrobus routes come out of what depot.
How many depots are there with there names.
What bus roster & how many buses come out of what depot.
Someone posted this in the past. I can't find the printout of the post so I can give you some of it.
Western-30s, Ns, D2, D5, L1, L2, L4, X3 (split with Bladensburg), E2-4, E6, 98, 99
Bladensburg-Hs, D1, D3, D4, D6, 90-97, X1-3
Montgomery-J1-3, T2, L7, L8, Zs, Ys, 70-1, Q1-2, S1, S2, S4
The other depots are Southern, Four Mile Run, Northern, Arlington, and that is all I can remember.
Sorry.
It is often a good idea to do searches before posting. You will often find the answers that way in a more complete form.
I have just received news from the DOB that the third Staten Island BUs Depot will be the Yukon Ave Annex but I didn't really find out from the DOB on where the Yukon Ave Annex will be.
If anyone out there knows on where they plan to built the Yukon Ave Annex, please post on bustalk.
How can the new depot be called the Yukon Annex, when the Yukon Annex already exist. The Yukon Annex is the lot across the street from Yukon Depot that has all the MCIs, then you have the Arthur Kill Annex which also houses other MCIs.
So that I will definately by calling DOB about!
Trevor
For those interested, here are the changes to the contract that the 34 day Los Angeles transportation strike achieved. Since the union's main goals were to prevent the 4 day 10 hour work week and the hiring of additional temporary employees, it is hard to consider this a union victory.
Tom
This definitely was a LAMTA victory. After reading the UTU/MTA agreement summary, it looks like the LAMTA got over big time.
43 days on strike and you only get a 6% raise over 3 years and the 4 day week gets implemented anyway? Bus inspection time and "bulletin board" time is decreased, part-timers are increased. And that 30 years and out pension stinks compared to 25 years/55 age for the NYCTA. I know LAMTA was losing money but this contract is a horrible loss for the UTU considering the 43 days lost.
No Service Changes or Proposals
For auction on eBay, four rare issues of Motor Coach Age covering New York City area transit systems. Auction closes on October 24: Connecticut Company, Item #471795922; Surface Transit, Manhattan and Bronx (Item #471887452); Surface Transit, Westchester (Item #471901369); and Buses and Trolleybuses of Staten Island, Item #472172274.
Hello fellow Bus Talkers!
Just wanted to tell you all about my ride on 2720 this past Friday on the X5. On the inside they look just like the previous 2 orders of MCI's that are already on the property. The acceleration is responsive and quick and the ride is excellent. The only complaint I got was from the bus operator who stated that the operators seat had been changed and it is very uncomfortable. Now I asked the driver for a pic of the interior and he said sure and he would give me the "Special Treat". Well the treat was grand! He turned the lights out and to my surprise the D4500's are equipped with L.E.D. reading lamps that give off a bluish cast. I must say it was very different compared to the others. Well hope you enjoy the new MCI's as much as I do and other information of course is welcome.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Sounds awesome, DaShawn! Let me know if you get your pictures developed and put on Transit World. I'll make a point to ride one of those next time I'm in the NYC area. The reading lamps sound like a real nice touch!
Chris
White LED's are expensive! Although this is one of their intended uses, I'm surprised it's being used here this soon.
The new MCI 102-DW3SS at NJ Transit carries White LED Reading Lamps also.
This is now the standard on all MCIs for reading lamps, if you want incadescents, it's now the optional light. White LED is no longer as expensive as they used to be now that the technology is heavily used. There is also one NovaBUS RTS-06 at Academy that adorns White LED Back-Up Lights, spotted this morning inside the Port Authority on Bus #1131 running the 125 Line.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
There is also one NovaBUS RTS-06 at Academy that adorns White LED Back-Up Lights, spotted this morning inside the Port Authority on Bus #1131 running the 125 Line.
Wow, I've got to see that.
The first white LED I saw was in a red laser car tail light shown at a tech show in Central Park one year ago. White was brand new then. In the spring I bought a pebnlight for $20. I always liked that color (as in mercury lighting). White LED bulbs and hexagonal panels still sell for hundreds of dollars on that site.
What makes white so much more expensive than other colors?
Chris
The gallium-Nitride technology (which also introduced blue). Full color is also out, and that is even more expensive.
I wonder how long it will be until somebody starts making white L.E.D. headlights. Even the red signal in the traffic lights in Queens are L.E.D. now. And in some long Island spots along Jericho trnpke. both the red & green signal are L.E.D.
BIG AL
New Jersey is also switching to the green, and at toll booths there is the amber. I asked someone who was working on a light in the city, and he said the red in Queens was not proving itself worthwhile (cost effectivenes or something), and the green for some reason wouldn't work with our lights and the yellow "they didn't like the color" (probably too amber for them). (They also considered and rejected the walk/stop symbols (someone walking, and a hand for stop, as is used elsewhere).
If white is available and cheap enough for reverse lights, headlamps should be right around the corner. They just have to get the beam bright enough (the penlight I have is pretty bright. You can't even look directly at it). So perhaps it is ready, but the problem is the cost. The color should not even be a proble as many fancy cars have switched to mercury headlamps, and this is pretty much the same color as white LED.
Another announcement. Blacklight LED's do exist, and are for sale by Nichia, the low wavelength LED inventor and manufacturer. This is what they should retrofit the older bus signs with instead of blue, except once again, the cost, since it is so new, plus these are dangerous, as they can damage your eyesight in a couple of minutes if you stare at them. (Their biggest use will probably be at stores to verify cards, bills, etc.
Check these websites out.
http://www.misty.com/~don/ledbl.html
http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/index2.htm
Haven't heard the details on the battery option -- but I was told that they would be "standard" Gillig Phantom shells exactly like the 3200-up series at King County Metro, to which the electrical gear would be refitted.
I doubt LED headlights will be approved anytime soon because Federal law has specific requirements about the intensity and spread of light; this is why most headlights have either the pattern of ridges on the lenses or a complex system of mirrors (on reflector-type lights).
To answer a previous question, LEDs can be distinguished from flipdot signs by the individual pixels' smaller, finer, brighter appearance -- the sign is lit by the individual pixels, not the retroflective covering on the dots being lit by an external lamp. Compare to the LED destination signs within the bus, as on WMATA's latest Orions.
LED traffic lights: all-LED lights (red, yellow, green) are starting to pop up in suburban New Jersey. They're quite bright! Each consists of a circular matrix of LEDs.
LEDs have been in use as third brake lights (CHMSLs) on cars for some time now; these light appreciably faster than conventional lamps and don't require bulb replacement (but are a bitch to deal with when a single unit within the array fails). Another interesting technology is neon, as in neon signs. The first (and only) vehicles to use this so far as a CHMSL (center high-mounted rear stop lamp) are recent (post-'96) Lincoln Mark VIIIs. These also light noticeably faster than the conventional lamps used in its other lights; try driving behind one at night. Neon tubing is cheap and plentiful; hopefully we'll see more of this.
Chris
We have used Red LED tail lamps at my company for more than 5 years. They have rarely failed except for some early units. They have been standard spec since 1995.
What is LED exactly and how is it different from regular light? I understand the difference between it and flip dot, but how can you tell an LED light from a normal one?
LED is light emitting diode. It is a 1-10mm solid state device with no vacuum tube or fragile filament.
It consists of electrodes with a chip made of silicon, Indium, sometimes aluminum, and gallium nitride (the newly invented blue and white), and when you run a low current (milliapms) through it, it gives you pure colored light, as opposed to taking a white emitting incandescent or flourescent tube and filtering it with color (which still is pale compared to LED. This is the biggest way to tell them, apart). You can have more than one chip in a unit, and it will change color, or you can take separate red, green and blue units and mix them to get any color in the spectrum. They are poised to replace other types of lighting, and buses seem to be one of their proving grounds, as they have replcaed flourescents in the signs, and incandescents on the red and amber signal lights. So the reading lights and reverse signals seem to be next, as white is becoming more available. I have looked to them as the holy grail of subway signage, since we have so many different route colors, but the TA is slow to adopt the higher costing blue echnology (except on rear route signs on buses that don't habe the green LED's beside the flipdot.) So it's still exciting to see them slowly take over transit vehicles.
The lights on the NYCT D4500's are more blue in color. When the florescent lights are turned out and the reading lamps are left on the bus has a blue tint similar to the blue light all the way to the rear of the bus but not that blue. In any case it is an improvement and hopefully the rest of the fleet will be retrofitted.
On another note, 1871 now has the "Blue Light Special", and is so far the first MCI 102DL3 with such an arrangement. It looks pretty nice and hopefully more will follow.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.TransitWorld.org
Well, they don't have to worry about changing those lights for a Loooooooong time.
On Saturday, I went on a field trip for my geology class. We had rode on a chartered bus, Atlantic Express #174. Our first stop was in New Jersey, in an abandoned quarry in Roseland. On the way to the Orchard Beach from there, there is a place off Interstate 80 that has a sign that says "Detroit Diesel." Is this where the buses go?
Still on the way to OB, on the I-95 portion of the Bruckner Expressway, I saw on the south/westbound service road, a bus that has the MCI logo, I didn't recognize what number it had, but it was painted white with the MCI logo on it.
like this one.
We later enter the OB parking lot. Some of the people we passed as we sought our parking space looked at AE 174 as if they never saw a bus before. On our way out, I saw the same reaction from a few more people.
Today, as I was on the Q88 to Queens College, I saw a Bee Lines slope back-modified RTS bus on the westbound service road of the Long Island Expressway. I think the number was 176, I'm not sure, but it was heading west, as the bus I was on was going east.
Strange, eh?
The place you saw on Route 80 was Atlantic Detroit Diesel of Lodi, New Jersey, and yes this where the buses go to.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Sawe 138 and 140 (both with YUK decals) on the Q74 Monday AM
Saw 139 in the yard today with Yukon Decals on her. What is CS Getting?
Q74#113Gary
Saw 139 on the Q74 today. Coaches on that route once again. I guess I should get used to seeing them there. BTW: 139 still has Yukon Stickers on her. Also on the other side of town, I saw 622 on the X68 with QV Stickers on her. The 1982 Express Suburban days are numbered. Only saw 1747, 1752 and 3572 on the Jamaica Express Lines today. 3572 has no stickers on the left side.
Q74#139Gary
Add 136 to the CS List from Yukon. Boy it gets better and better for CS!
R36Gary
UP may actually have the last 1982 RTS left left in the system with PA1760, PA1761, PA1778, and PA1846 once the bus transfers with CS & QV are done.
Saw 617, 618, 625 and 628 on the X68 today and the only 1982 Express RTS that I saw was 1751. Still saw 1740 1746-1747, 1752 and 1755 from Jamaica on the Express Lines from Jamaica. Here's a pic I took of 1752 at Union Tpke and Queens Blvd.
Enjoy!!!
X63#1752Gary
Aren't you forgetting about another NYCT depot that still has a few of the 1700's left? Ulmer Park will not be the last depot to have the 1982 RTS's. So far at least one depot hasn't received in squat yet. Let's see how many of you can guess which depot that is? The answer should not be a suprise, especially if you've been doing your homework and reading past posts on Bus Talk.
BIG AL
Saw 139 on the X51 this evening. I guess no more RTS' express' at Stengel.
Uhhh...not so fast there Mr. 9293! Something tells me that JAM will hold the distinction of having the last 1982 express coach.
I will be putting "nospam" before my email address, in order to reduce the spam problem that I am having.
BTW, 'nospam' doesn't help, because the programs that harvest addresses are a little more intelligent now, and they now stip those strings.
-Hank
Yeah, I've been having this problem on newsgroups. The way to do it now is something like this:
REMOVEctmueller@THIS.STRING.hotmail.com
Of course, in my case I use a hotmail account that I rarely check -- keeping my real e-mail box spam-free! (Or close to it; I average 25 msgs of spam a day on my "real" AOL account...I blame the chat rooms I used to frequent.)
Chris
I hate Hotmail, I use Yahoo. Very little spam there.
Hotmail, I would get spam everyday. Mainly porn and other stuff like that.
You're right; but I don't use the Hotmail account for correspondence, just as a dropbox. I go through it a few times a week to check for legitimate messages, then pitch the rest. I chose Hotmail mainly cuz I can use it with Outlook Express.
Chris
Yahoo too.
Even better, Yahoo has actual POP access.
Then I just won't post my email anymore.
I recently just heard that the Crosstown Bus Depot will be converted to a storage area for buses & that the painting facility will move to Zeraga Av in the Bronx when it opens.
I believe that Crosstown also stores buses now. What I and others want to know is if and when it will become an operating depot again.
QV Orion 616 won't be seen for a little while. It's being worked on to correct among other things, the "GBL Sign Syndrome". Perhaps 616 can be retrofitted with one of those nifty Ballios orange LED signs.
The Viking is still in the College Point Storage Yard near CS. It looks kind of 'regal' just sitting there all by it's lonesome self among the other Orions. Of course looks don't serve commuters very well, one has to wonder when if ever this beauty will see revenue service.
This was on the back of Orion #105 out of Casey Stengel, This is exactly what 6360 looks like mines the plug back doors!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Those wide right turns have been on Queens Division buses only for quite some time now.
Mark
It look more like the RTS's 8567 that ran out of Jackic Gleason. I look like it has roof monted CNG's fuel tanks.
Robert
The RTS Hybrid has similar tanks on top! but I can tell how long it is that this sticker was designed after 6360 plus 6360 has the longitudal tailights unless like other TA projects they changed their mind because 6360 went back to Roswell and was suppose to be back last week. It went back for some modifications.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
You are might be right. I did look at the back of the bus in the sticker. I also did not know that the Hybrird and that type of box on top.
robert
This is Not Pretty!!!! Bus #8808 was involved in a bad accident under the (1) Train elevated in the Bronx, Ran right into a elevated column.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Boy that bus is pretty bad & the bus is still outside the Depot???
Peace Out
David Justiniano
www.geocities.com/justin2669/NYCTransiTrans.html
i see bette escaped unscathed but her tv show may not have such luck.
I'm sure Fresh Pond could use the engine.
Sure. Put it into 4212 so it may live forever!
Real good! You'll be happy to know that two of my other favorites, 4096 and 4210 are history. 4096 was a very good bus. There was no reason to scrap it.If you hit a pothole with that bus, you hardly would know it.
Why do some of you bus talkers always feel that Fresh Pond is going to get the engines? (Even though it wasn't said exactly that way, I get the feeling this idea is being implied) 8808 is only 4 years old and I'm quite sure it will be repaired. It's just a matter of changing the front modules. Even if it were scrapped, the engine WOULD NOT go to Fresh Pond, but instead to ENY CMF to be stocked for ANY bus needing an engine.
BIG AL
Ok. What I should've said is that FP is ALWAYS in need for additional engines. The chances are good that FP will get this one if it's scrapped. My first post was based on the fact that there were three buses there from other depots which had their engines removed by FP maintenance:1834,3880,3159.
Oh no Beth got her headlights damaged, that's tragic.
Mr t__:^)
Do you really think the operator of that bus wants you to post that picture on here? Has this incident been investigated prior to you posting this on here? By posting pictures like this on the internet you may dicourage riders from using public transportation. They may feel that the driver or shifter was not trained properly. Being that you are a NJT employee you should know that transit agencies don't want pictures like that publicized. Its part the TA's fault for not covering it and part your fault for trying to show it off on here.
Have a nice day!
LOLO N.C.
Investigation was already conducted and concluded, the cause was a livery cab cut the bus off and the driver try to avoid the collision with the car and instead hit the column. Bus operator not at fault!
You have a nice day too!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
My point is that if you god forbid crashed a NJT bus you wouldnt want me or someone else to post a picture of your accident on the web where everyone could see it. The topic for discussion belongs on this board (its true), your pictures however do not. You have a wonderful website where everyone here can go to visit and see your pictures if they choose to. Since I am new to this board I dont want to start any trouble so please dont blast me back. I do however think you should consider my advice.
Have a nice day!
LO Jean
Point taken and stored, just to let you know, I'm the kinda person to take pics of my own accident!!!! :o)
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Should I, Trevor?
-Hank
[... you should know that transit agencies don't want pictures like that publicized ...] This is correct to a large extent.
[Do you really think the operator of that bus wants you to post that picture on here? ... your fault for trying to show it off on here.]
You said that you were a new BusTalker, well let me say this: This is basically a busbuff site vs. customer, employee or official site.
Busbuffs take pictures of everything related to buses, including accidents. They tend to take photos of things vs. people and do excersize some restraint, i.e. no gore or blood on the streets. I'm an employee of a local bus company & didn't have a problem with Trevor's photo.
Disclaimer: I don't work for the MTA, TA or nycDOT and am speaking for myself here.
Mr t__:^)
I am also an employee of a local bus company. As a matter of fact our company has a few buses that were destroyed in accidents. Believe me they are aware of the websites that currently have pictures of those buses on them. For the last time my point was that that the driver of 8808 most likely does not want that picture posted on here. I honestly dont mind seeing it here because i am not going to have a chance to go up to Kings Bridge Depot and see it myself. A better place for it would be on Trevor's site which is a place where people go to view transit photography. I am sure most Bus Talkers visit the local Bus Buffs Websites. I recently visited transitworld.org and they also have many pictures of the 3 Command buses destroyed in fires and accidents. (Just a reminder this is supposed to be a message board not a photo gallery). I do understand that by posting pictures it can raise good arguements for bus discussions. Lets end this thread on a good note and post your pictures on here at your own risk.
...is a place where people go to view transit photography.
In case you haven't noticed THIS site has THOUSANDS of transit pictures. Wrecked, in service, scrapped, busses, trains, on and on, look around. This site is much more than the BBS's.
Peace,
ANDEE
nycsubway.org does have many pictures. The Bus Talk Message board should not.
Let me tell you right now that's an argument you're going to lose, and I'm on your side.
-Hank
Thing is, it's public record. The wreck is parked on a public street in front of a bus depot. The driver has not been identified here, and you'd have to go to some lengths to find out who he/she was. And newspapers do such things all the time.
What do you think of the news coverage of the IRT wreck last night?
-Hank
Correct me if I am wrong but if i remember correcly (HANK) you recently posted on BT and Sub talk that you do not agree with people posting pictures on here. I see Trevor has many fans that will defend him (whether he is right or wrong) so thats all from me, FOR NOW. I guess its all a matter of opinion. I wouldnt post a bus i wrecked (and be proud of it) on here.
AMEN!
Pictures do take a while to load when you are trying to read a number of posts that have been added to a topic on either board. All of us are not blessed with High Speed Internet access like DSL or Cable Modems. I think pictures should be held off as much as possible and used sparingly on posts. The pictures should be used only when necessary and when deemed so, only use like one or two tops. When posts have 5 or more pics attached it can be a long time waiting depending on your type of connection the the information superhighway.
Question! What happened to links to the picture like when Hank for example has added pictures. In that case it makes it much more easier to see pictures of something. It also gives people the option to view pictures and they are not forced. Just a thought from the brain.
DaShawn
www.Transitworld.org
Ok, It's not about defending me, these people are making a valid point that this is a board about transit as a whole, granted I may be the only person here busting out photos on my post, but that's because I'm a audiance oriented person.
I love giving Transit fans pictures of stuff that they may not have a chance see or can't get to. I just love it. That's what I do.
I don't post every picture that I take on my site also, some things I make just exclusive for this board and Dave Pirrman's Site. Thus why I post it on BT or ST.
So please do not turn this into a vanity thing, these people that responded to you are not quote defending me, un-quote. They are just stating that this board is for this kinda thing.
Have a safe and blessed Evening!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
[I love giving Transit fans pictures of stuff that they may not have a chance see or can't get to. I just love it. That's what I do.]
That's obvious & appreciated by folks like myself who don't ride the system every day, i.e. your Yankee & Mets photos.
I've also enjoyed this debate ... which is also what Bus-SubTalk is all about ... I particularly liked the fact that no one threw any rocks or mud. Good points were made by all ... just part of the learing/hobby enjoying experience .... Thanks Dave.
I happen to agree that photos as part of a post should be the exception rather then the rule. In addition I find folks who have a logo/photo as part of the handle to be annoying as well as time consuming.
Mr t__:^)
Hell, if I wrecked something, I sure wouldn't be proud. But it's public domain. That's why 1369 is under a tarp at Concourse. The guy driving the train sure as hell ain't happy about it, but the pictures would be printed in every newspaper, the video on every TV station. It's news, and on this board, anything that involves a bus is news.
-Hank
You are over reacting to the posting of the picture. I'm a NYCTA bus driver and would have no objection to the picture of a bus I damaged being shown on this website. Who is going to know it was me anyway? Bus accidents happen all the time and are routinely covered by the media. The media doesn't hesitate to reveal the drivers identity. At least here the driver remains anonymous. The last time I looked this was a buff site for bus fans. What good is a buff site if you can't view pictures of buses?
I have a question. Why must you take pictures of dead buses? Why do you want to remember them that way? It seriously makes me depressed to see a picture of a bus that is scrapped.
I am sure it makes us all sad to see a picture of a scrapped bus or to see a bus that was involved in a major accident and could never see service again. In a way its interesting to see pictures of that kind. For, example lets say a bus got into a major accident (8808 is the perfect example), you hear about it on the news or see it in the newspaper, but no picture is shown wouldn't you be curious of what the bus looks like after the damage has been done? If the press does not release pictures, and you know one of us bus photographers knows where the bus is and can get pictures wouldn't you be in someway thank ful that he went out of his way to show the picture. From, my view point sometimes viewing those pictures can be very interesting as I said before. In, this case you know we should not make a big deal about it. After all not all of us can go to the Bronx to see the bus, so showing it on BusTalk was an excellent idea. Now, if it was a regular photo thats a different story, but showing something like that we should give an exception to.
Peace,
Jason
oh, well, I guess you are right, and I guess I agree with you. Like that articulated bus that was in the accident with the train form the WMATA, I wouldn't mind seeing that. But if it was just a picture of some old bus that is just gettin scrapped because it is old, it's a little sad.
I'm sure to you New York City bus enthusiast this will sound like a stupid question which has been answered on this message board time and again, but I am a newcomer to this board, and I do not know a lot about New York bus lore before the 1980's.
Nearly every picture I see of a NYC GM New Look, of any batch but especially present closer to the end of the New Look era, the bus has some sort of roof-mounted unit: either a taller, boxy one at the middle of the bus or a shorter, streamlined one closer to the front. Some Flxible New Looks also had it.
I had thought that maybe this was some sort of modification for air conditioning, but many of the buses sporting this mysterious feature have the standard, top-rear mounted New Look a/c units as well.
Quite honestly, I think these mystery boxes desecrate the New Look body. It almost makes me glad that the New Looks are no more at NYCT.
I doubt that you wizards of NYC transit knowledge will have any trouble entertaining this question...
Thanks,
Neil Greenberg
nagreenb@umich.edu
ĦQue viva el subjuntivo!
That box housed the radio antenna, believe it or not.
Peace,
ANDEE
Antennas. The new look buses (and Grumman Flxible 870's) used one of 2 types depending on the depot. Most depots used the huge unit, and a few depots used a much smaller unit identical to those on R-32 subway cars. West Farms, Hudson, 54th Street, Flushing, Fifth Ave (and Castleton) used the smaller unit.
Wayne
It's NOT a radio antenna. When the buses were rebuilt in the mid 80s, the A/C was removed from the engine compartment and radiator area, and a new A/C unit was installed on the roof.
The radio antennas were always directly over the drivers area, or 5' back. The older antennas were a long beam, sometimes covered with a fiberglas fairing. The newer antennas are covered with a small bubble, and is basically a smaller celluar antenna.
-Hank
HELLO????? I own 6149 and its definately a radio antenna.
I'm guessing that RTS T80 206 was asking about both the radio antenna which were on all TA/OA new look buses and Grumman Flxible 870 - and the A/C units on the (local service) GM Blitz rebuilds. I think this is what the other fellow was referring to.
Have you or are you planning to restore 6149 to it's original two-tone blue paint scheme.
Wayne
When I recieved 6149 I had never seen a bus in such a horrible condition. The bus was basically taken out of service for a bad tranny shifter. There is not a good thing aboiut this bus except that you guys dont have one and even a few years back the TA contacted me about getting it back. Every bulkhead is bad, tired engine, you have to hike to get over the hump in the rear floor area. According to the records, the bus was in service up to a week before I got there to bring it to Ca. The tranny shifter broke and it was taken out of service. If it wasnt for all the paintbrush paint holding it together, it would have fallen to pieces on the drive here. Worst bus I have ever had by far. You can also see it in John McKanes new look book. I do have some other pics of it if anyone is interested. It has appeared in a few movies but is totally unsafe and financially unrepairable at this time.
Scott, that sounds like just about every NYCTA bus I rode when I was a kid back there in the Bronx!!!
From the descriptions, he was describing both the radio antenna and the A/C unit. And he didn't make it exactly clear.
-Hank
> From the descriptions, he was describing both the radio antenna and
> the A/C unit. And he didn't make it exactly clear.
Actually, I thought I made it rather clear. Any transit buff who's anyone recognizes a standard GM New Look (or Flxible) air conditioning unit. All pictures of any a/c NYC New Look I've seen sport the standard New Look air conditioning, and it is not until pictures taken in the mid 70's/80's that I see the alleged roof-top unit.
On this message board alone, people have told me that this was a replacement for the standard New Look a/c and then I've also heard that the unit housed radio antennae. I can't imagine why NYC would relieve the rear units of their duties, as New Look standard a/c was reliable in every other city.
It's hard to believe that these mammoth units were required to house merely radio antennae; they are hideously ugly.
The Grumman 870's had these units as well?
Let's settle it once and for all.
We all know what an original GM New Look air conditioner looks like. That's the thing that hangs over the rear window, with the screenin it and a fan screen on top.
NYCTA also had a large fiberglass cover over the antennas on manybuses -- this is the "box" with ribs on its top that was always at the FRONT END of the roof (i.e. half over the door/driver area, the rest over the forward-most windows). The antenna cover had a slanted front and ribs on the top, no visible openings.
And the Blitz-rebuilds got a new air conditioning system that was mounted mid-ships, centered over the rear door. It also had screening on its top and fans.
Yes, some of the Grumman 870's had the large antenna cover on their front ends as well -- not too many of them, but they did have it.
The rebuild removed the A/C stuff from the engine compartment and overhang. There were reports of overheating problems.
-Hank
During the Green era, MaBSOA and NYCTA (in Manhattan) used a large loop antenna. This antenna was housed in a large box in the front of the bus. During the RTS era, the antenna were replaced with a fin antenna.
The long box in the middle were Blitz rebuilt which mounted a Surtrak style air condition package.
Do University of Mich / Ann Arbor still have 40' Flxible on their campus bus system?
Prior to the housed antennas and the fin type, NYCTA used short whip antennas.
Was 675 on the Q27 today, and the engine was smoking real bad.
It appeared as if it was on fire. I saw it do a few runs, then I finally spoke up. When he pulled onto Roosevelt Avenue I told the bus driver his bus was smoking. Several other drivers and passers0by also went over to the bus. Thanks to our complaints this bus was finally pulled out of service. Never seen a bus smoke so bad. Not even a LI Bus.
Also saw alot of OOS buses in Flushing with the Bx13 Yankee stadium sign, a few even bearing Yankee flags. You'd think that buses from the depot by Shea wouldn't have so many traders.
Not one sign for Shea. Hopefully this time the Mets will win, after all they deserve it. Yanks can't win all the time.
It seems that the express bus fleet keeps changing when Yukon Bus Depot keeps receiving more MCI buses.
610-630 Orion Surburban express buses are going to Queens Village
140-155 Orion Surburban express buses are going to Castleton
Some of the Orion Surburban express buses are going from Yukon to Casey Stagel.
Can someone please post the latest information in regards to NYCT express bus fleet & what will the express bus fleet be like when all the 2000 MCI buses are in service.
Take over this please, You got the hot info!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
You know, we were abusing follo (and you were joining in)for doing exactly this.
-Hank
I was simply directing it like that so that Q5 Merrick sees it, he is the top man on this site with the express information! Find something else to b!tc# about!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
OK. You use exclamation points way too much.
Oh, wait, I already did that one. :)
Besides, dontcha think he reads them all anyhow? You and I do...
-Hank :)
Here is the deal with the express bus assignments:
616-630 CAS to QV....611-615 are staying put at CAS
138-140 YUK to Stengel
141-155 YUK to CAS
9252-9256 QV to JAM...all except 9256 are already there.
Mark
135 on Q74 Friday. Still YUK decals
The latest in my series of posts on what makes Metrobus such an interesing system to spectate:
In the timetables, a lot of short turn trips appear with a slash after the route number. Naturally, this is a way to make it clear that some trips do not operate over the whole route to the user looking down the first column in the timetable. Actually, this is a really convenient feature which should be more common on other systems' timetables.
Often, these short line designations are reflected on the destination signs. But, in addition to the classic short line slash, it is not uncommon for signs to display any of several other seemingly random punctuation/typographical marks. This seems to occur most regularly on the 9300's, 9400's, and 9600's, those buses equipped with the transitional Luminator "Split" destination signs with the route number and destination on seperate displays.
There are some pretty standard displays which are commonplace, like -Y8- and ..42. Come to think of it, for the slash, I have only seen 70/. I rode a bus on the N2 whose side and rear signs displayed N2N2. Far and away the most ridiculous display of this, though, was on a Sunday morning northbound trip of the 42: It did not say 42, it did not say ..42, not even 42-, but it said -4/2. If you do the math, that should have been a bus on route Negative 2.
Do these marks have any significance? If so, then how come they only appear on 216 of Metrobus's signs?
Thanks,
Neil Greenberg
nagreenb@umich.edu
ĦQue viva el subjuntivo!
Just junk from the sign controller, I think. It seems particularly prevalent on the Vulcan units. The most common variation is the two leading dots, as in ..34. They have no other significance, but they do confuse the passenger, who assumes that the slash -- N2/ -- is similarly gibberish and not a truncated route.
Chris
Yeah, I think that's because it just covers up room on the number display sign, since there is enough room for a 3 digit route number, like the Z11 for instance. SEPTA installed some of those signs on some of their Neoplans, but they never worked. It always had 0 on the number display and then there was the route number and the destination on one side.
The SEPTA Neoplans in question were busses in the 344X group. I'm not sure if all 10 buses had it, but when they were new they were new they were used on the 76, before eventually being spread out. I think (and this was probably mentioned somewhere else beforehand) the problem was SEPTA was too lazy to fix them since at most 10 buses had such signs, but then again maybe they could have just had NJT fix them since their MC9-B's and Metro-B's had them as well. If you see any of the 344X series now in the new scheme, the right hand or "route #" part of the sign just has a SEPTA logo over it. This pic is from Creighton Rabs' Frankford Terminal page. 3443 most likely wears the new scheme by now.
The buses you are referring to - including the above - were numbered 3440-3449 and part of the Neoplan EZ (1989) series. In addition, 10 Neoplan DK (1986) suburban buses - 3122-3131 - now operating out of Red Arrow have rear destination signs, but haven't been functioning properly in at least 3-4 years. In another odd destination sign quirk, Neoplan EB #3200 operating out of Frontier has a TwinVision destination sign which was installed within the past few years (I'd guess 1997).
What is a TwinVision destination sign?
I saw a bus signed 00E2 while driving down McKinley St. earlier this afternoon.
Chris
TwinVision is a brighter version of the Lumionator LED signs currently used on the most rescent order of RTS's.While 4900-5220 are equiped with the Luminator,5221-5249 are equiped with the TwinVision signs.From my best observation,it is green version of the orange Ballos signs.It has that type of clarity.
TwinVision is a brighter version of the Lumionator LED signs currently used on the most recent order of RTS's.While 4900-5220 are equiped with the Luminator,5221-5249 are equiped with the TwinVision signs.From my best observation,it is green version of the orange Ballos signs.It has that type of clarity.
I now see a bus signed .M36 every day operating on Ride-On 36. This is a MetroBus operated Ride-On route. I also have seen over the years things such as L-2, 00T2, /34/ (it was terminating at Tenleytown), ..36 (on the Ride-On and MetroBus route), and stuff like that. I have also seen on the subway shuttles, 0 NOT IN SERVICE.
R1 Richmond Terrace (became S40)
R2 Bay Street (became S51)
R3 Castleton Avenue (became S46)
R4 Richmond Avenue (became S59)
R5 Richmond Terrace (became S42)
R6 Victory Boulevard (became S62)
R105 Victory Boulevard-Clove Road (replaced by S7 now the S53)
R109 Richmond Road-Lincoln Avenue (became S72)
R110 Manor Road (became S54)
R108 Van Duzer Street & Richmond Road (became S74)
R113/117 Van Duzer Street & Clove Road (became S53/74)
R112 Travis (became S62)
Your info is a bit out of date. They changed from R to S with the original numbers in the early 70s. They changed all the numbers in the late 80s to the current system. The s6 was the Jewett/Victory line, and is now the S66. The s112 is now the extended s62 (which was initiated as a route from the ferry to Jewett)
The s5 was combined with the s104, and is now the s52.
I have several maps dating back to the 60s, and I see no R105 on any of them. The s108 was eliminated. The s113 is now the s74, and the s109 was changed to the s72, which is now eliminated.
The s53 is the old s7, but its route is only on Clove Rd and Broadway, not Victory.
-Hank
r105 clove road until verrazano br rte r7 was started in mid 1964 when bridge opened up
The accident on the #4 line last evening sent some interesting buses to the rescue. It was strange to see artics as well as Orions running on Jerome. Even the Orions wandered onto the Concourse.
Joe C.
This flick ran on TNT Tuesday night opposite the World Series. Nicholas Cage is a cop, married to Rosie Perez. He doesn't have enough money to tip a waitress, Bridget Fonda, but tells her that if the lottery ticket hits he'll give her half the winnings.
At one point in the movie Cage and his partner climb onto a New Look Flxible numbered 7788 to deliver a baby. The bus was shown in a close-up when they climb on. The bus was white and the numbers and stripe blue, but I think its from a movie supply company because no NYC transit symbols were visible and there no interior shots. The camera is outside the bus and Cage is seen holding a baby up through a window. Also the movie was made in 1994 and is supposed to be a contemporary story. The New Looks were long gone by '94
Another scene shows Cage and his partner walking along a sidewalk on a wide commercial street. There is an RTS about six blocks down. Since the movie takes place in Astoria I think that the bus is one of Thurston's (QSC's) because I thought the striping was orange and not the red of CTC.
I need your help guys. I have a movie coming up in the middle of November and parts of it take place on the interior. I will be using 5285 as it was original # 20 for the PA I need to get a few pics of what the interiors were like or atleast some insight as to what i am dealing with here as when this bus went to Los Angeles Airport, it was retrofitted with old look seats and they need to go. I have a set of perimeter seats from a NYCTA fishbowl but I dont know what color the ones were in the Port Authority buses, Remember, 5285/20 is a glasstop T6H 5307A I am willing to trade or pay, it doesnt matter as long as I get the right info. http://www.geocities.com/regtransit/
Saw her being towed along Water Street to MCH.......
M1#214MikeLimited
--
Disclaimer: This transit-related post does NOT regard the east coast.
The suburban Detroit bus system, SMART, is run by people who really do not know much about what it takes to make a good transit system. That is a well-known fact. But, in their latest move of sheer stupidity, they have embarked upon a funding agreement with the federal government by which they will replace their entire fleet over three years, thus squeezing ten years worth of federal funding out of three years. This will prohibit the purchase of any new buses until after 2010. I can provide more specific details of this funding arrangement if anybody wants.
The first of 280 buses are slated for delivery in mid-2001, with the balance to be in service by the end of 2003.
If any of you are familiar with the SMART fleet, they do not operate a single bus which was made before 1990. They have 33 1990 RTS-08's and I will agree that these buses need to be replaced (please read NOTE 1 about this batch of buses at the end of the message).
The next oldest batch is 23 - 30 foot 1992 Gillig Phantoms and two more 40 footers. Their largest block of buses is 122 RTS T80 206's made by TMC and NovaBUS between 1993 and 1995. Until late 1998, these buses were generally in pretty decent condition. This tally does not include 9368 and 9369, which are the only known RTS T80 207's (see NOTE 2 at end of post for info on this type of bus). In late 1995, SMART took delivery of 86 piece of absolute crap Champion Centurion van-buses. Their most recent order was 19 - 1999 Blue Bird CSRE "almost" school buses which are an awkward length either a hair shorter or a trifle longer than 35 feet. These are put to work on all the wrong routes, and often carry loads that would even spill over to standees on an RTS.
Enough details. SMART claims that not a single one of its buses should still be on the road due to high mileage. Technically, the federal guidelines say that a bus may be retired with Uncle Sam's money if the bus is older than 12 or if it has more than a certain number of miles, I think 500,000.
But come on. SMART -must- be the only transit system in the country that can get away with retiring buses that are less than 10 years old due to mileage. It's not like that even matters. If buses were resold like cars and I could mosey on up to my local used bus lot and buy a used Grumman 870 with low mileage from some shyster salesman with a plaid coat, then I could understand, but I don't think there is any reason that a transit system shouldn't maintain a bus meticulously and try to get as many miles out of it as possible. If they got almost 40 years out of New Looks in Washington and 19 years out of RTS's in New York City, then I don't think it's too much to expect 12 years out of a standard-feature RTS in light-duty suburban Detroit service.
If I ran a transit system, I would keep every bus on the road until it no longer made economical sense to do so. Under my stringent maintenance policies, I would still have GM Old Looks in service!
Let's take a look at the predecessors of SMART's current fleet. As late as mid 1995, SMART operated a decent number of 1978-1979-1980 RTS-03's (and also some 1984 Flxibles which were promptly retired the moment they turned 12) which were inherited from SEMTA. Right before their retirement, most of these buses had well over a million miles on them, but aside from dirty interiors, they were still solid buses which were widely liked by the drivers.
So basically, save for the 9000's and the very lightly used 9200's, not a single existing SMART bus will break seven years of age. But by that logic, how does SMART expect their new buses to last? The earliest time that more money will be available to replace the new buses will not be until at least 2010.
In the summer of 1999, I began to notice that many of the current buses were literally falling apart at the seams. We're talkin' panels under the rubrail missing completely. Broken glass panes
not replaced but rather patched over with blue electrical tape. Corners of buses busted in. Entire bumpers missing. Countless cavities of rust decay all over the bodies. Engine compartment doors held to the rest of the bus only by hand-tied plastic wires. Myriad other problems which were telltale signs of blatantly negligent maintenence.
In late 1999, SMART did a half-ass rehab job on some RTS's, small tasks like replacing bumpers and cleaning up some body panels. A few of the buses actually look like four- and five-year old buses SHOULD look, like 9421 and 9505 for instance. But even since the rehab, a lot of buses have fallen back into disrepair.
I have no idea how SMART intends to make their new Gillig low floors (highly unreliable, or at least unsightly buses) if they plan on subjecting them to the same subpar maintenance which killed the RTS's.
It sounds to me like SMART's early replacement plan is just a cheap way of making up for years worth of negligent maintenance.
My opinion is that Gillig low floors are the worst buses on the market, but I feel sorry for the ones which are doomed spend their careers under the incompetent care of SMART.
Thanks,
Neil Greenberg dba RTS T80 206
nagreenb@umich.edu
* NOTE 1 about SMART's 1990 RTS's: (9001-9033)
They are the first ever wide front door RTS's, and they do not have a back door at all. They were first "retired" in the summer of 1995 on account of bad engines. The buses collected dust for about a year before SMART sent all 33 of them to Atlanta for its contribution to the Olympic Transport System. When they came back from Atlanta, they sat for another few months out of service. In early 1997, they started to turn up in regular service again. However, the maintenance on this particular batch of buses has been nothing short of atrocious. They are in simply horrible condition, and they will actually be old enough to be truly eligible for retirement in two years. For that reason, and since they are such problem-plagued pieces of crap, it is understandable that SMART wants to unburden themselves of these vehicles.
* NOTE 2 about 9368 and 9369
These are the only known RTS T80 207's in active transit service. This experimental model has a shorter wheelbase, resulting in the rear door being pushed forward one window position. Also, these have the second version of the wide front doors (à la Austin, Long Beach, Honolulu) but still a rear-door wheelchair lift. The interiors are very spacious, and these are the only SMART buses that have Cummins engines. These are very cool and very rare buses.
NG
-- *3832 45 1333-14
I don't really have anything against SMART for wanting to replace their buses, although maintanance could be much better. They are trying to stay on top. On my transit company, LTS, I barely let a year go by before getting a brand new bus. You just have to understand, bringing you into the future includes vehicles too.
Actually, I think buses aren't made as good as they used to be and it's sometimes necessary to do these replacements. The GMC RTS buses and maybe the Flxible Metros will be the last buses that you can get 25+ years from in one rehab.
Nowadays, as soon as a bus turns 12 or hits 500,000 miles it's out of the door. I expect all the New Flyers in Houston to be gone by 2015 at the most. I just don't see them lasting as long as the RTS or Grummans and especially the GM New Looks did here in Houston.
You what made the buses turn to crap?
FEDERAL FUNDING.
The fact that the federal Government funds many bus purchases, and say that the lifespanof the bus is to be 12 years, well, that's all the manufacturers are going to make them last for. That way a manufacturer has a chance of getting more Federal $$$ to build more buses in the near future.
When transit companies were private -- and even when they became municipal/county/state operations, but no Federal funding was available (i.e., pre-1968), the manufacturers built a bus that would last so that companies would come back to them on their own to buy new equipment down the line.
As for the GM RTS's lasting as long as they do -- I drive RTS's that are 20 years old and still going strong -- my opinion is -- GM always did build one hell of a good bus!!! Right to the end, too!
I agree that buses don't last as long. PAT in Pittsburgh used to run GM fishbowls 15-20 years commonly and when finally retired, many saw additional service elsewhere with other systems or private individuals. At the junkyard where many of the buses ended up, several were driven in directly at the end of a run with fareboxes and radios being removed at the junkyard upon arrival.
All this was going on at the time PAT was leasing buses due to coach shortages also. Makes me wonder especially since the various systems that obtained these so called junk buses had no problems operating them.
RDChilds
Looks good/rides good is NOT a consideration when scrapping a vehicle. Those buses from the 60s ran into the 80s because they had to. Are you forgetting the general lack of infrastructure funding for transit from the 50s through the 80s? Transit operators had to make do with less, and they did that by keeping things running as long as they could. You do eventually reach a point where your repair costs exceed the capital costs associated with replacement.
-Hank
Then why did WMATA operate equipment more than 30 years old? Logically a well placed order of Flxible Metros in 1990 could have spelled the end for the New Looks.
They did replace most of the New Looks and Fishbowls, over the years, with their various orders of AM Generals, Neoplans, M-A-Ns, Flxible Metros, Ikarus, and Orion buses. Almost all of the older equipment was inherited secondhand from WMATA's predecessor agencies (DC Transit, Capitol Transit, etc.); they gradually phased it out as the new equipment came through. Owing to the fact that all Neoplans and all AM Generals had to be scrapped prematurely, they kept the old stuff running, and maintained it as it was financially sound to do so, but it wasn't for the aesthetic reasons you've cited. "Good looks" and "good performance" are not reasons for buying or keeping a bus.
Chris
Metro-Houston had problems with both the RTS-02-01 model and the 870. Instead of keeping the "old Look" buses in serice, they either fixed the problem or replaced the fleet and got something else. The exceptions are the 180 New Look rehabs which were really used to expand our fleet of a 1979 high of about 400.
We really could've used the Old Looks during the dark ages, but since I really wasn't born back then, I can only read about the Metro hooro stories.
Obviously WMATA knew that the New Looks were a reliable bus and could be depended upon through tough times. And really, what stopped them from knocking them out in one crushing order of Flyers or Orions?
[Obviously WMATA knew that the New Looks were a reliable bus and could be depended upon through tough times. And really, what stopped them from knocking them out in one crushing order of Flyers or Orions? ]
(Metro has no Flyers (or Nova, TMC, what-have-you) and no plans to buy any. Looks like the O's are here to stay.)
As you pointed out, they were thirty-plus years old. While very reliable, they were on their last legs and were sorely lacking as far as amenities and creature comforts went.
Metro tends to buy a hundred or so buses at a time, every year or two. The 'crushing blow' would have been the 200-unit shipment of Orion Vs in 1998 and a similar-sized shipment of Vs this year, in addition to some 150 Orion VIs this year, and 40 Orion IIs last year.
Chris
It took all that to retire the Fishbowls and New Looks?!
Your transit company?
Chris
Hehe, it's sort of imaginary. It's the Lego Transit System (LTS). It's an organized transit system with trollies, high speed lines, and the newest buses around. Of course I basically build all of them, but it's still pretty good. You just gotta Love that Service, cause we're bringing you into the future. We are LTS. :)
Dag :)
You gotta put pictures of that online. i've made some lego buses myself, and assigned them model numbers. They're all built by my fictional consort, Trog Industries, LLC. Maybe I'll photo some of them. (I even have logos for the transit systems that I made in Illustrator.)
Chris
Cool. I even have this theme song, motto (as I said in the post before) and about 40 routes serving this imaginary city called Goodworth and the western suburbs. There is also this other imaginary transit company called Transit-Rider that just uses GMC RTS buses and serves the eastern suburbs, although I don't really do anything with that. Also, I'd post some of the pictures of some of the vehicles i have made in the past few years, but I don't have a scanner and I dont' really know how to put pictures in posts.
Also, there is a website for it that I just made explaining a little bit about the system (www.expage.com/lts).
Wow, neat page! If you ever do get a chance to post pictures online, or a Paintbrush-created route map, please do -- it'd be interesting to see your 'city.'
As for inserting pictures -- I suppose it's academic since you said you don't have a scanner -- but this board will accept any HTML markup -- that's how people do fonts, colors, marquees; etc. To add a picture, therefore, you'd do something like this:
< img src="http://www.myserver.com/filename.gif" >
(remove the extra spaces by the brackets -- i just added them so that it wouldn't actually think that it was a link and try to render it!)
Anyhow, keep us posted on LTS. Cool site!
Chris
cool thanks. That site will be updated often. As for the system map, I'll do a different one for the 4 high speed lines and I'll try to do on for the trollies. I'll try to draw the rotue maps on the computer and post it somehow.
cool thanks. That site will be updated often. As for the system map, I'll do a different one for the 4 high speed lines and I'll try to do on for the trollies. I'll try to draw the rotue maps on the computer and post it somehow.
Maybe the way they are getting around the Federal 12-year lifespan on their buses is that the older 1990-2000 buses were NOT purchased with Federal funds. They may have used local funds, state funds, or they may have entered into a financial agreement with a bank, etc., to lease the buses.
The agency where I work bought 53 1990 New Flyers without a penny of Federal funding. The county had extra money, and NFI had this bunch of buses (cancelled by MARTA, Atlanta) so a deal was worked out to obtain them. Fromt he time they decided to purchase the buses until they were on property was less than six months. Would have taken a lot longer with FTA funding.
Prior to that, they got 105 1983 Gillig Phantoms by doing some creative finance/lease dealing with one of the major fast-food chains. The food chain bought the buses, leased them to the transit agency. The fast food chain got the depreciation tax credit. After seven years the transit agency bought the buses from the fast food chain at their depreciated value. And the transit agency got rid of those pieces of shit (Gillig Phantoms) as quick as they could get replacement (Federally funded...) buses.
Gillig Phantoms-at least Ride-On's and Palm-Tran's Gilligs aren't bad. You dont' have to call them pieces of "shi-" I'm sure that the Gillig company works cery hard on their buses, even though the phantom has a poor design, they still would have their feelings hurt if they read that message. (I know this message is in contrast to that chain I started before)
I didnt seem to make myself clear on the last post. This is what i need. I need to know what the interiors of the Port Authority of NY and NJ glasstop fishbowls were like. I know they had perimeter seating and some sort of baggage rack in the middle. This bus (T6H 5307A serial# 127, bus # 20) still has red carpet behind the driver and also on the rear over the engine compartment. The flooring is original and is in the RCA rose marble color. I dont know what color the seats were and if they were hard plastic or cloth. I have to have this bus back to its original as new condition before the 22nd of November for a movie that has alot of parts aboard this bus in summer of 1975. I also have some pics of some of the other glasstop fishbowls new at PA if anyone wants to trade. Its very important to me to restore this bus as original and any help is appreciated.
The TA had a short run with double decker buses back in the very early 1980's. Does anyone have any pictures of these buses? It would be nice to see them again. Thanx.
I think they actually arrived in the late 1970's. I was fortunate enough to ride them a couple of times on the M4. I'd like to see a photo of them again too.
Wayne
Metro retired about 100 buses and they are currently on the auction block as I type. Some of these buses I've seen as little as 3 weeks ago. The 28xx-29xx Flyers are finally doing what the Ikarus, Neoplans, and the 40xx-41xx New Flyers were supposed to do, kill the RTS.
It's really sad because some of my favorites such as 2098, 2146, 2148 and 2152 are all set to be sold. My only hope is that Metro pulls some from the auction and put them back in service, yeah right.
So long RTS-04's, your last few brothers and sisters will fight the good fight until they are stripped of their stripes (and sometimes motors) and puled from service.
Side Note: Wednesday, 18 year old RTS bus 1927 broke down in the HOV lane. I heard it was out of fuel. A few maintainence trucks came and the bus was restarted and coasted down a hill and stalled going back up. It sounded as if the transmission was gone but it regained power and sped off the HOV lane at about 50 mph. Upon getting off the HOV lane the bus was pulled over and worked on. I'm certain if everyone had not abandoned the bus for the ones behind it, it would've finished it's runs. Instead it was driven under it's own power back to Fallbrook Facility. I'm interested to know if it was working today, it may be retired now for all I know.
RTS 2150:
You seem like a good source of Houston transit info. I'd venture to say that Metro's fleet is one of the largest "unfanned" transit fleets in the US.
Could you provide detailed roster info and/or photos?
Thanks,
Neil Greenberg
nagreenb@umich.edu
ĦQue viva el subjuntivo!
KYW news radio was reporting this morning that a SEPTA bus was stolen at 69th Street Thursday night. A police chase ensued, the bus rammed a police car injuring a police woman, and subsequently crashed into a wall. Two perps were arrested. Sketchy story at KYW1060.com.
The unusual thing about it is that it was the 3rd to happen this year. The buses in SEPTA have to have a bit more security. You don't hear about NYCB buses being stolen.
Because when they are, they usually are not involved in collisions that injure police officers. We all know how easy it is to start a NYCT bus.
-Hank
And I have noticed that SEPTA buses uses "Ignition Keys" and NYC does not.
To me it sugegsts that someone in Philly is getting the keys or hot wiring the buses.
For NYC: I assume our bus fleet has precautions- or do they
[This is what I have posted at my web site: http://www.geocities.com/ctrabs74/septa regarding the stolen bus incident at 69 St Terminal. Most of this info came from the Delaware County Daily Times and Philadelphia Inquirer.]
Red Arrow #8859 was involved in a rather bizarre incident in Southwest Philadelphia. Two teens simply walked onto the Victory District lot in Upper Darby at around 11:30pm on Thursday, October 26, and took off with 8859, which was in the fueling lane following that day's runs. Red Arrow operator Julius Major followed the stolen bus down Market St to 63 St, where he flagged down a Philadelphia Police officer. The chase ended at the corner of 62 and Walton Sts in West Philadelphia, when 8859 crashed into a PPD cruiser and eventually struck a building. One Philadelphia Police officer was taken to the Hospital of the Univ. of Pennsylvania for minor injuries. 8859 suffered damage to the left windshield, front bumper, side panel, and frame.
This incident brings back memories of a similar incident nearly three years ago when Allegheny (at the time) #5267 was hijacked on Lehigh Av during a 54 trip early one weekday morning. 5267 - the only NABI to be officially listed as scrapped on the SEPTA roster - crashed into the El structure at Kensington and Lehigh.
SEPTA Spokesman/Apologist Richard Maloney said that this was the third SEPTA bus to be stolen this year (the other two buses were taken from Callowhill and Midvale), and that 8859 would be out of service temporarily, however may be scrapped, as a few 8800s have been retired recently. Maloney also told the Philadelphia Inquirer, "If neccesary, we could add more security, but it would come at the expense of ease of operations." Well, it's not as though SEPTA Police were exactly doing their jobs last Thursday night, now were they?
[There was a similar incident about two years ago involving a Flxible from NJT Hilton Garage, where a driver took one of the buses all the way down the Garden State Parkway to Atlantic County and out on US 30 near Hammonton before he was finally caught. NJT made security adjustments after that incident.
The URL to the Delco Times story:
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=1016446&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18171&rfi=6]
A friend of mine who works for the Seattle/King County Metro says that Seattle's aging fleet of AM trolleybuses is going to be overhauled by Gillig. The propulsion and chassis will be retained from the 50s-era AMs, but the rest of the bus will be rebuilt from the ground up. Does anybody have more details and specifics on this? To me, a Gillig trolleybus would be sweet - it'll be High floor, and most likely resemble the Phantoms only with Trolley poles. Does anyone know if these will have a battery similar to the Vancouver, B.C. Trolleys that will enable them to go a half a mile or so without wires??
ABe
Haven't heard the details on the battery option -- but I was told that they would be "standard" Gillig Phantom shells exactly like the 3200-up series at King County Metro, to which the electrical gear would be refitted.
The propulsion and chassis will be retained from the 50s-era AMs, but the rest of the bus will be rebuilt from the ground up.
The AMG trackless were 70's era, 1979 to be more accurate.
RDChilds
The Seattle AMG ETBs are the same era as SEPTA's ETB fleet, of which there are only 66 remaining.
I have noticed (from the subway) that many E NY and Stengel buses have no roof bus number. Is this a new practice or is it not yet painted
Roof-top numbers are quickly becoming a thing of the past at all depots. As buses from the 1986 through the 1996 model years are being repainted NYCT has not been putting rooftop numbers on them. I guess that program has been deep-sixed.
Only buses purchased in 1998 or later have the rooftop numbers.
Mark
In searching street vendors for subway series T-shirts today, I found a new China die-cast toy school bus. This time it is a Crown Coach!
It is yellow, has roll-back action, an opening front door and is about 4 1/2 inches long. The bus looks a bit wider than it is high, but makes a nice addition to anyone's collection. This famous school bus was only made as a toy by Tomica in the 1970's; a newer version is a sure welcome.
Joe C.
Guess those Crown's finally made it through the Panama Canal and allt he way around to the east coast.
They were out here in California two years ago!!! Every now and then, one shows up at eBay.
Earlier this evening while at the Transit Museum shop at GCT, I was browsing through the books, among which was a book on model buses. A couple pages were dedicated to Public Service and NJ Transit models. One thing that caught my eye was that with a certain set, you'd also receive an old Jersey Cruiser promo poster from the early 80's that says, "A Breakthrough in Commuting", with a drawing of a Jersey Cruiser, much like the cover of the bus schedules.
Also of interest was a "Community Coach Rider Guide", which was featured with two CC models.
This jogged my interest a bit - does anybody know where I can get any old brochures, articles, etc., about NJ Transit in the early 80's, in particular, the bus division, including pics, maps and schedules, etc.?
Also, while riding back to Jersey, a poster was taped to the window of the bus that said, "NJ Transit, winner of the APTA Most Innovative Award", or something like that, and another that said, "Seats Are On the Way, So you won't be standing for long!"
These posters didn't elaborate, so does anybody know anything more?
NJT won the APTA's Award for Innovation due to the recent MCI CNG Cruiser order and some other things NJT has done. The seats poster is referring to the new MCI cruiser coaches which include NJT's first ever 45' coaches.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Hello.
Me and Gmartic need pics of his PA "Glasstops" ASAP for restoration.
Doent anyone over there care enough to stop worrying what turn signals they are using on the M15 enough to help this project?
Its sad to see todays busfans completley oblivious to what real busses are about.
These shit Orions and Gilligs,etc of today are nothing in comparison to the busses that made this country roll for many years.
That bieng GM particuarly the "New Look"
The rest only are a remote joke of what a bus should be.
So come on look thru those pohto albums and slide collectios and help this important project.
Again we are looking for shots of PA 20 which is a "Glasstop" 5307.
I will post a $100 reward to anyone that can produce a picture of this bus.
These now get going.
We are waiting.
Dude
Perhaps it's your attitude.
In addition to the sheer arrogance y'all two routinely exhibit -- witness the LAMTA strike -- you seem to act like such assistance is an entitlement.
It's not.
Chris
Like I said, thanks for nothing
i'd love to help, but it's a little out of my way. Also, I have one question for every single person in this post room thingy moohicky whatchamacallit room. WHAT IS SO AMAZINGLY GOOD ABOUT THE GMC NEW LOOKS???!!!!! I mean, they are okay buses, but THIS IS THE MODERN TIMES! They are being replaced with more comfortable buses that even people who aren't obbessed by transit vehicles can enjoy! Those M3 cars in Philadelphia! Do you still want them with those fans and those hot summers and squeeky turns? I like the stop announcement, cloth seats, AIR CONDITIONING! Well, I feel the same way about those "sh--" Orions and Gilligs. Sure, they may look ugly on the outside (and in some cases, the inside as well) but the modern ones are so nice and comfortable, with nice seats, stop announcements, climate control, and more! They are GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEAAAAAAAT! Also, you fail to realize that gillig has been making these buses since the 80's, and Orion has been making buses from the 80's as well as Neoplan and Flixible have (Flxible also made New Looks that were similiar to GMCs. What's wrong with them?)
So, in other words,( I don't mean to offend everyone who likes GMCs, but accept the newer buses of today) GET WITH THE ERA, OLD TIMER! There are new fantastic buses coming in, so move aside and let them in. Also, I have ridden GMC New Looks (probably, back then i didn't really know the difference between them as WMATA buses) and they aren't really that amazing in my opinion. Also, sorry about the harsh remarks, and hopefully you weren't offended too much. But it's starting to get on my nerves with everyone saying "New Looks rule, everything else sucks!" If they ruled, why aren't they really in service anymore? Well, that's a rhetorical question, don't answer that.
Oh boy..... First of all.... When the newlooks were new, do you think they were delivered with hard steering, AC that didnt work and bad brakes? A bus of any type is only as good as the maintenence department that works on them. You can take a new whatever and dont do any maintenence to it and it will surely fail. Just as would anything that is mechanical.
Second.... I am open minded to any piece of transit equipment. I just have a love for the GMC. You may have only seen a handfull of newlooks in your life but there were tons of options you could get on them from the beginning including power steering. Most companys opted for what they could afford.
Third.... I am only preserving fishbowls because that is where all my experience is at. If there are people out there that want to preserve anything else, more power to them. If there is anything I could do to help someone save a piece of transit history, I WOULD.
I'm sorry about that angry message. I mean, I'm a little young, and I havent' seen as many newlooks as everyone else, and I would love to preserve transti history, but, calling every other bus that I like crap, well, it just hurts just a litle bit. Sure, I know they weren't always what I enjoyed, but the Orion I's were the oldest buses I was really familiar with, other than SEPTA's Neoplans, so I really like the Orion Is, and calling them crap doesn't really make me feel that good. Once again, sorry for that harsh message.
YES! Another Orion I fan, there aren't many of us around, Granted I love my Flxible METROs first and formost BUT I'd take a Orion I just as quickly as I'd take a Flxible.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Orion fans?! I thought I'd never see the day.
On New Looks, I've never rode one and I heard an engine on Transitalk and it sounded boring and bland, like a truck. If I wanted to hear a truck I'd stand by the Ship Channel. If you want to hear a BUS engine, get on a GMC RTS, New Flyer, or Flxible.
BTW, I hate Nova Bus because they've ruined the RTS with that robotic engine.
And Trevor, not to hate, but those Cummins powered Flxibles sound horrible. Nothing more than a glorified truck engine. Bring back the 870 rehabs!
If I was in cgarge every bus company would have to have RTS, D40LFs, and 870s and Metros in their fleet for local service and MCI's and Prevosts for express service. And they couldn't retire them until they were 25! Mwuaaaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaa!
Okay, I'm done.
IMO, I would rather have the M-3 "Almond Joys" over the M-4's anyday because the M-4's are an accident waiting to happen. Just because something is brand new does not necessarily mean it's good. As far as buses are concerned,I miss the fishbowls too, but SEPTA made an excellent decision in going back to Neoplan (the best bus of the modern era). The only thing SEPTA had to do to the M-3's was install A/C.
And also SEPTA would have had to do something about that squeaking sound when the train turns. I know, the M-4 makes it too, but you see, it's not as bad. Plus, a 40 year old train isn't exactly amazing for people who like new comfortable trains. As for the fishbowls, I only saw one that SEPTA owned, and that was when it was a workbus and was parked at the Victory Avenue depot. Also, I agree that the Neoplans are great. The only thing I don't really like about the new buses is that the seats are hard, althought they are cloth seats.
Also, making a bus with a glass top isn't really a good idea.
DUH!
They were called "glasstop" buses not because the top was glass, but because they had window panels in the roof. Basically, they were meant for sightseeing in cities such as New York, where there was a lot to see by looking up.
oh, that's interesting
Checked my collection, I don't have any pic of the inside of any PA Newlooks. But I did find an exterior of #20 (brown&white).
Thanks for the help. That project has now been cancelled as they are going to use an ex Los Angeles TDH 4801 (2363)of mine. Unfortunately I need to make it have perimeter seating and repaint the interior as NYCTA. The glasstop will now just be redone as as standard perimeter seated bus for NYCTA. I have resceduled it into the shop for January. If anyone is interested in pics of it when its done, let me know.
NYC did have some old looks with perimeter seating. Not sure if the 7000-series TDH5106's had 'em, but the 9000's I think did.
I'm damn sure, though, that the 3020-3059 series (renumbered 3260, 3221-3259) series TDH5106's delivered to Surface Transit in the Bronx had 'em as I rode in those things a lot on the Bx12. Instead of being straight back to the rear with a straight rear seat, the seats curved around in the back of those buses. They also had flourescent lighting, a bulging destination sign box in front (to accomodate flourescent lighting behind the signs), and passenger-operated push-out exit doors.
And to top it off, they were painted in San Francisco Muni's "wings" paint scheme at delivery!!!
The 7000 and 9000 (with the exception noted below) series TA old looks had regular 2 X 2 pink plastic seats from the front to the rear door. From the rear door back, the seats had their backs against the wall (perimeter seating) and curved around in the back. The Surface Transit buses noted by you as well as the identical 2600 series Fifth Avenue Coach buses also had similar seating, although these were initially cloth seats (later changed to plastic when MABSTOA took over Fifth Avenue and Surface). The 23 lowest numbered buses in the 9000 series (9000-9022) had perimeter seating as well from the front to the rear door. When the TA received its first new look fishbowls (1-190), they had perimeter seating from the front to rear door, and standard 2 X 2 seating from the rear door back. This seating pattern continued until the TA Flxibles in the 5600-5700 series and the OA GMC's in the 5201-5525 series were delivered with all perimeter seating, and most TA and OA new looks after that continued with all perimeter seating, except for the express buses.
Just asking but was'nt the TA Fishbowls in the 4000's and 6000's re-numbered into the 5000's after GOH? The 4000/6000 series fishbowls had the perimeter seating too.
To clarify what I said, all TA and OA fishbowls after the orders of the mid-1960's had perimeter seating the full length of the bus, except for express buses. This would have included the fishbowls in the 4000's and 6000's, which I believe were delivered in the late 1960's or early 1970's. Interestingly, I recollect that when Blitz rebuilt the fishbowls into what became the 5000 series of the 1980's, some of the buses that had perimeter seating were converted to traditional forward facing, 2 X 2 seating. Other 5000's retained the perimeter seating.
One correction to my earlier post. The OA 5201-5525 order (which came at the same time as the TA Flxible 5001-5165 order) did not have full perimeter seating, just perimter seats in front of the rear door. The OA 6401-6900 order (which came at the same time as the TA Flxible 5601-5789 or 5799 order) was the first OA order with full perimeter seating.
Also the TA GM New Look order of 3600-3950 had the same seating as the TA 5000 Flexibles and OA 5200's( Gray perimeter seating from the front door to the rear door and Red forward facing seating to the back .I also remember that FP had alot of the 3600/3700's.Even the 5000's ended up at FP ,before being scrapped in the early 80's
If I remember correctly, the OA orders of that time period (3301-35xx and 5201-5525) had green perimeter seats rather than gray in front of the rear door. For some reason, gray was reserved for the TA orders, but not the OA ones. But, I believe, both TA and OA buses had the red seats in back of the rear door.
I remember riding some of those buses with the red seats in the rear when I was in H.S. Does anybody know why transit would order buses with two different color of seat back in the sixties?
BIG AL
Because it was the 60's.
Peace,
ANDEE
If I remember correctly, NYCTA buses 2001-2175 had all green seats with longitudinal seating in the front and forward facing 2x2 seats in the rear section.
The 1963 TDH-5303's (3600-3949) had the red/pink seats in the rear section and 2x2 seating in the rear, while their air conditioned counterparts (8000-8202) were the first to sport the all gray longitudinal (perimiter) seating.
Mark
8001-8202, which were 1966 GM 5303A's (the TA's first air-conditioned buses), were not the first TA buses to have the all gray longitudinal (perimiter) seating. 5601-5790, which were 1965 Flxible new looks, had such seating. The order before that, 5001-5165, were 1964 Flxibles that had the gray and red combination. All of the TA's GM 5301 orders (1-190; 501-805; 1001-1130; and 2001-2175) had the all green seating you spoke of.
That's what I remember -- green up front, and bright red in the back on the 3300's at MABSTOA. I used to ride thema lot on the Bx12 when I lived in Fordham.
I only saw 4 of those 5000 series Flx's at FP back around 1980: 5066, 5074, 5076 and 5079. Where there any others at FP anybody else had seen back then?
I thought I saw 5064 & 5075 also & I think it was more around 82/83,when the Grummans went on the shelf the 1st time( I just started High School (and use to take the B58 & Q44(John Bowne))
Thanks, Sid! I wasn't sure about the 7000's, but the 9000's, I did think I rode in some with perimeter seating up front -- and you confirmed that.
I also forgot about the 2645-2694 series at Fifth Avenue which were duplicated of the 3020-3059 up in the Bronx. Both these bunches were very sharp looking buses, among my favorite old looks!!!
Aha!
That confirms that some WERE in the brown version of the paint scheme.
As per the NYCTA DOB INSIDER'S GUIDE 2000 the following steps will be implemented to ensure that NYCTA operates the cleanest bus fleet in the world:
1) NYC Transit will use a new,cleaner diesel fuel in its entire fleet of diesel buses starting in 2001. This fuel has 90-percent less sulfur than fuel traditionally used and will result in immediate emissions reductions from every bus.
2) NYC Transit will retire all of its oldest,less clean-burning diesel engines by the end of 2003. The new technology engines will be up to 94-percent cleaner burning.
3) NYC Transit will equip all of its diesel buses with catalyzed exhaust filters by the end of 2003. The new emissions-control technology has been proven to reduce diesel-particulate emissions from new engines by up to 95-percent.
4) NYC Transit will expand its compressed-natural-gas bus program to three depots,with the new Coliseum in the Bronx and an upgraded Manhattanville joining Brooklyn's Jackie Gleason as CNG depots. Over the next five years,the fleet will add more than 300 new CNG buses--bringing the fleet total to at least 650 buses.
5) NYC Transit will expand its hybrid-electric bus program by purchasing 250 more hybrid buses in the next five years--bringing the fleet total to 390.
6) NYC Transit will work with the NY State Department of Enviromental Conservation to evaluate new "clean fuel" technologies and state-of-the-art emisssions tests.
I think Blue has a valid point. Since I am here on the west coast, these are questions I need answers to and cant get the help here. I just cant believe that all you guys are to busy to be concerned with another New York area fishbowl being restored to its original configuration.So what if the bus is in California, its still being restored. If the tables were turned and someone on the east coast needed info on a west coast bus to restore it or any other reason..... I think I would come up with something for him. I have had 2 responses (thank you guys, you know who you are) but unfortunately, there wasnt much help there. It seems to me that you guys couldnt care less about anything unless it is what bus is on the Q54 or whatever!!! Thanks for not helping at all.
P.S. this is not the first time I have asked for info on New York area buses and got the NY attitude of "who cares" Thanks alot
Perhaps its not so much an "I don't give a damn attitude" but rather the item being asked for is not in anyone's possession. As I emailed off board, I don't remember those buses only the glass-top suburbans that Gray-Line and other tour companies used.
You only asked for positive responses, not negative ones. Therefore why the shock and indignation when you don't get any positives? Would you rather have dozens of "sorry can't help" ? Would DP allow his site to be cluttered like that ????
Hart Bus
It just amazes me that those buses were there for many years and no one can even tell me anything about them. I am not being a dick... its just that if the tables were turned and there was anything I could do to help out... I would. I feel that since I am way out here that no one cares what the hell is happening. Isnt anyone atleast a little excited about having a Port Authority bus preserved?
Well, I suppose I owe you something of an apology. I don't mean to lambaste you for what's a good cause -- restoring fishbowls, but your manner was a bit brusque. However, best of luck with your search, and let us know when the movie comes out!
Chris
I'm sorry. I just dont' know anything about buses on the east coast. I would help if I knew info on anything, but I don't, I DON'T. I'm sorry, I barely know anything about New York Transit either. I just know about SEPTA and Metro (WMATA). So, sorry. I think it's cool if any bus is preserved. Also, isn't the Philadelphia tranist museum getting some buses they found soemhwere?
I agree with what HartBus says. Those Port Authority buses were not exactly in an area where the bus/transit fans would congregate. They were used at JFK Airport, and it would be a rare thing to go there to shoot pictures for anybody, due to its relative remoteness from the rest of the transit system, plus the fact that bus fans knew they weren't going to see much at the airport (except a lot of traffic and taxicabs). A lot of folks in NYC area just do NOT drive -- and to get to the airport in those days, it was a pain in the ass, using transit. It was either the subway to Howard Beach and then a shuttle bus, but I believe that shuttle service didn't start until way after the PA buses were retired and working in Everett, Washington. Or, subway to Lefferts and then a long bus ride through not-so-hot neighborhoods to the airport (the Q-10...)
I actually did have some slides of those buses that I obtained through trades. I sold off the entire transit slide collection in recent years, and hate to say it, but those PA fishbowl slides I had are in the possession of someone you deal with quite a lot, Scott. You might want to head south on I-15, if you know who I mean. I distinctly remember one shot of one of them in a yellow paint scheme, it was a left front view. There were three or four others from the PA airport fleet too.
Thanks Steve for the info. Its makes more sense now. Its weird that the explanation has to come from someone in the next city to me. I have alot of slides and pics of the glasstops when they were new. The paint scheme was horrible. The only thing I dont know is what the interiors looked like and I am running out of time. As of right now the seats will be hard plastic perimeter seats that will be dark red and the walls will be painted tan. Tan seems to be the color under the years of scum. I do notice that the wheelwells were dark red so that is why I believe the seats would drak red also. It also has remnants of airport service dark red carpet left behind. Once again, I didnt mean to offend anyone
One thing that I do remember about the interior of the PA buses, the interior was brown and at the entrance, there was one of those silver gates which swung open when the bus' front door open and vice versa to prevent you from passing "the yellow line". And the drivers handled fares.
The "long term parking" brown buses had the silver swinging gate.
The "airport connections" yellow buses had a driver operated turnstile located right on the yellow line. The fare was 25 cents then was raised in one shot around 1981 to $1. and the sign above the windshield read in capital letters "AIRLINE CONNECTIONS".
If you really have a hard time locating those photos, try contacting the PA at www.panynj.com, maybe they could help.
Mid-'60s Port Authority coaches were typically equipped with full-width waterbeds aft of the rear door, yellow-framed plaid-upholstered four-abreast seating facing backwards, and trampolines just behind the drivers' seat. Psychedelic bead curtains were strung across all entrances. Fareboxes were in fact gumball machines.
Hope this helps.
Chris
Thats what I expected, thanks for the tremendous help
Gee, that sounds like Green Tortoise out here ont he west coast....
It's not that I don't care. I just don't know. Even though I grew up in NYC the first time I rode a PA shuttle bus was in 1982 and I think the fishbowls were at that point.
I hope you are successful in restoring the bus. I can't speak for the rest of the BusTalk community but I'd like to think that they do care and would like to see the bus restored.
Wayne
Thanks for the positive input, at this point in the project I need it
When the new Maspeth Bu Depot begins, are they going to just rebuilt the facility the way is it now for a depot or are they going to tear down the building & built a brand new depot.
I am sorry if any of you felt offended by my post. I will try and explain this as easily as possible. There is not many people out there that are keeping the fishbowl memorys alive. Sometimes it takes more than just one guy to rebuild/refurbish a bus. The information I asked for is to make the bus correct as new. If no one helps out then I have to do my best with what I know. I guess all you NY area fishbowl fans just dont seem to remember this fleet of 26 specially ordered fishbowls that not only served for Port Authority, but continued in service for many years for Los Angeles International Airport and Everette washington. Once again.... I am sorry if anyone is offended but............. I am not asking for the secrets to life... just some info on what this board seems to be about. BUSES
Hey everyone. You may have heard about my similation transit company, LTS. Now, I would like to know what everyone's favorite NEW transit bus is (one that is being currently manufactored-sorry, I miss those Flxibles too, but this has to be extremely modern!). Maybe one day I can make a roster of buses for this transit company for everyone to see! Don't forget, the slogan is "Bringing you into the future," and the best way to bring passengers intot the future is with state of the art modern buses!
I hate to do it, but I throw my vote for the Orion V. Darn, I miss those Flxis, though ...
Chris
I used to say Orion V's,But since I started riding New Flyers(C40LF's &D60HF's),I have to go with New Flyer
My favorite NEW transit bus is the low-floor Nova because, in my opinion, it is the one currently manufactured bus that doesn't look like any other. While I like many of the other transit buses manufactured today, if you take each one individually, you can probably name another bus that looks something like it. I don't think anything looks like a low-floor Nova.
Nothing looks like an RTS, except the LFS. Look at it and you'll see.
My vote, 2000 Nova RTS. Give it an old 1981 RTS engine and it'd be perfect! It's still the best looking transit bus in the country.
I see. Well, no offense, but I still think the RTS is an 80's design and is sorta outdated. But, hey, I'm willing to take any bus suggestions! Besides, I've never really ridden a novabus RTS except for a 1994 model in NYC, and it was pretty nice.
Um, the RTS design is the best looking transit bus in the country. It looked modern in the 70s, 80s, and 90s and now on into the next century.
Orions are an 80s design. Remember the 80's when every car was just a box on wheels? Well for boxes on wheels partaining to buses, see Orion or Gillig.
I agree that the RTS is a good looking bus, but for some odd reason boxy buses are popular, like NABIs, and then the RTS design isn't that popular anymore. That is why I said it was an 80's design, because not many companies that I know of order brand new RTSs. However, the RTS should be a modern design that transit companies are looking for, as long as they had BIGGER WINDOWS!!!!! Their windows look too small, and that is something transit companies are looking for, at least, in my opinion.
Not many people order RTS buses anymore because Flyers and Orions are becoming popular. Also, many companies already have RTS buses in their fleets and want something a bit different.
Plus, this is the end point of a mass retirement of the last New Looks, Grummans, and late 70s to early 80s RTS buses which I feel began in 1994 and is finally just coming ot an end. Many comapanies purchased the Nova RTS buses bwtween 1995 and 1998. They feel that there is a need to try something new with Orion and New Flyer.
When the 3rd generation buses are ready for retirment in the next 2-5 years, the compnies will just be done with the deliveries of Orions and Flyers and will want the Nova design again.
Bus companies want to try new technology vehicles. Many are now interested in low floor vehicles because they are easier for people to board and that's the name of the game. Peoples comforts. Also safety as people are less likely to slip and fall with a low floor bus, which means less law suits also. Buses which run on alternative fuels are now in high demand as ways of cutting back on pollution. At Kennedy Airport, most of the buses which shuttle the people around now are low floor. I don't see anybody buying new RTS's and pretty soon I'm willing to bet nobody will be buying any more high floor Orion's as well.
BIG AL
[Also safety as people are less likely to slip and fall with a low floor bus, which means less law suits also.]
Of course, keep in mind that some of the low floor bus models, such as the New Flyers at Gleason, have steps leading to a slightly higher floor to the rear of the rear door. This may actually increase slip and fall law suits, which is why some authorities prefer buses like the low-floor Novas and Orion VI's, which have a level low-floor throughout the bus.
I'd like to see more low-floor buses purchased in the U.S., but I suspect high floor buses will continue to outsell low-floor buses during the next few years. But, eventually, you'll see low-floor bus sales become the majority.
>>> I suspect high floor buses will continue to outsell low-floor buses during the next few years <<<
This is hard to believe since handicap access is so much simpler with the low-floor design.
Tom
Yeah, but high-floor buses are cheaper than Low-floor buses, so that's probalby why they will still outsell the low floors
I like 'em better too, as do most drivers. Low-floors seem so wimpy and fragile, whereas a good ol' high-floor can be driven into the ground for years and years.
Chris
Yeah, the D40LF's out here show their VERY quickly. The 28xx-29xx already look 2 years old and many aren't even two months. I like the older ones we have better, they seem to be less fragile, cooler, and sometimes faster than the new ones.
I was always wondering how the safety of the passengers are affected in the portion of the bus that is at the same level as the car. In a high floor bus, if it was to be broadsided, a passenger would seem to have less of a chance of getting injured as they would in a low floor bus. I don't know if there have been enough incidents to compare such a thing and a bus is definitely stronger than a car. However, if I was looking eye to eye at a car coming at me vs. being above it, I would be saying a prayer.
Absolutely - I've always wondered about this too!
I see. Well, no offense, but I still think the RTS is an 80's design and is sorta outdated. But, hey, I'm willing to take any bus suggestions! Besides, I've never really ridden a novabus RTS except for a 1994 model in NYC, and it was pretty nice after all. Also, I love the sound of those 1981 RTS engines too.
My favorite bus (other than a fishbowl) is The Neoplan AN435, AN440, and the AN460 articulated. Even the oldest of SEPTA's Neoplan fleet has a superior suspension system than the Ikaruses (although I wish that Neoplan kept the old rear end and driver's window design on their new buses).
Yeah. I've never really ridden that many of those Ikarus buses though, so I wouldn't really be able to comment much about that. Also, I love the sound of the engine of the newer of the AN440 fleet of SEPTA's (3000 series?). It's really interesting. I also loved the back and the old driver's window design too. Now the rear end like sticks out or something like that (not very nice in my opinion, but not too bad either).
Today I took the 171 bus from GWB terminal to GS Plaza and back.
Going, the 11:05am bus was 5 minutes late, because the 175 bus pulled out ahead of it on the lane.
Then even though there wasn't that much traffic, the Flxible bus I had crawled (I think it was 3000 something). Couldn't get above 30 as cars flew by us.
Approaching GS Plaza, I ring the stop bell. The driver said "there's no bus stop here". I said there was, just past the new walkway and road across Rt.4. She said I should take the 175 for GS Mall. I told her I'd rather take the 171 because it is faster. She just was confused because it seems not many people use 171 for the mall.
So after being in the mall for a while I went to the Rt.4 bus stop and waited for the 171 back to NY. The 3:25pm was a few minutes late, and was going fast (it was an RTS).As it approached a waved to flag the bus. Well he just kept on going. He did not even appear to even look my way, as if there was no stop there.
So I had to wait in the windy turning colder weather out there for the next 171, at 3:45pm. That didn't show till 3:50pm, and this was a Flxible. I did not mention to the driver what had happened because I was just so tired of standing and wanted to sit down.
I gotta admit while I like NJ it still has that "gotta have a car" mentality of the suburbs. I've never had a NYC bus, or even LI Bus, whiz past like that 171. If he wasn't going so fast I would've been able to get the bus number.
The 171 bus stops for the mall are isolated and infrequently used. But it's quicker. The other buses (175 and 163) are local and roundabout.
On the way back some traffic on Rt.4, and a good amount of people at the Bergen Mall bus stop. It seems the 171 picks up and drops off more passengers at Bergen mall than GS Plaza. GS Plaza is nicer so why is Bergen Mall more popular with the bus riders? Because it's more downscale?
Also passed Riverside Square, though no one ever uses that bus stop, that is a very fancy mall right?
Riverside Square Mall is the "Upitty" mall, VERY EXPENSIVE. As for Bergen Mall, alot of people go there because it's more of an outlet mall but GSP does see more consumers than any mall in Bergen County.
Sorry about the 171 fiasco, Market Street Bus Operators are dicks (pardon my french), my mother was a operator out of there and I experienced thier bad attitudes all the time. That's why I'm glad my mother went to rail, they are much more buff friendly there!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
And going back home today more problems. I waited for the 4:30pm N21 out of Flushing for 15 minutes (late) in the snow (you heard right, SNOW in October) and cold. Finally shows up, and a nice long line of the usual hispanic migrant crowd lines up behind me. Then a few guys just cut in front of me and put the change in the farebox. Then the bus driver says to me "cmmon, what are you waiting for". Most drivers don't let people who are paying with Metrocard dip their cards when someone else is putting in change.
The bus was packed, SRO out of Flushing. It was a slow bus, 184 with the POS Cummins L10G engine. Well at least the heat was on.
Then in Manhasset after just climbing a hill the engine loses power and stalls as we go downhill. Fortunately did restart. Got home 20 minutes later than scheduled.
If NYCT had service this bad something would be done about it. But I guess since mostly spanish immigrants who don't speak english ride the bus, they don't fill out the surveys (and there's no spanish version) most people just throw them out. I got mine on the N21 this past week and I'm filling it out and sending it in tomorrow.
Riding the bus in the "car rules" suburbs just sucks!! Especially on weekends when there's less service but MORE riders.
The average shopper who is taking a bus to a mall prefers a route that gets as close to the mall as possible. Hence, you can understand why the 171 isn't used much to and from Garden State Plaza; almost all shoppers will take the 163, 175, 709, 756 or 758. I acknowledge your reasons for taking the 171, but most shoppers would take a slower route to be dropped off right on mall property.
OK those that offered an intelligent tidbit to my Q&A good show.
Thanks also for the prank emails they were hilarious to read.
Like it or not ladies we got it sweet here in LA to have Gmartic doing his most to keep his interesting fleet as close to how they were in service when and where.
If I had to live here in LA and rely on the present in service buses to keep amused I wold move. But as Mr.Pink keeps perhaps the most uniuqe of any "Historic Fleet" alive I can stand dealing with the new in service garbage until he rolls his bus out for the usual weekend jaunt.
Now I learned from the true KING OF NEW YORK that Motor Crotch Age did a story on the PA Airport busses in the 1970s.
Can anyoe pinpoint which issue it was?
Blue
My issues of MCA go back to mid-1975 and I couldn't find any such article, so you might wanna check earlier.
of these three companies (TwinVision, Luminator, Ballios), which is the best? I personally thhink the new luminators with LEDS are the best.
Balios are the best i've seen so far, you can read the destination sign from about 5 blocks away, CLEARLY! However the Twin Vision sign beats the Luminator Sign By Far!
Trevor Logan
SEPTA isn't as bad as soon many people think it is. Just think, by the year 2002 all the buses will be handicapped. Every single one. Also, they are getting New Flyer Diesel Electric Hybirds next year, and New El Dorado 30ft buses. And there are already the Ikarus Americans, and I guess some of the older Neoplans could stay. Also, for those who say that SEPTA buses are filthy and grungy, well, SEPTA is establishing a program to clean all SEPTA vehicles. There will also be better stations and such. Also, I doubt that they are goign to convert the trolley bus lines into diesel bus lines, since they are doing so much to try and bring light rail back to those lines that were originally light rail lines. It's in the plan itself, just go to the site See? Also, they are goign to extend the rt 100 line to King of Prussia Mall (yay, I won't have to transfer to the 123, 124, or 125 to get to King of Prussia)! Also, they are working on devising a new simpler fare system for first-time riders. So, you see? Septa is really serious about change.
What kind of sad fleet is that! You all used to have smart looking RTS slopebacks and now you're loving these Ikarus Americans!? They're vultures I tell you, vultures! They wait for a fleet of buses to come in and replace a fleet of older ones, then the Ikarus takes all the old fleets routes!
Plus, they're the ugliest transit bus I've seen besides the Orion 2. Who would want these pieces of junk in there fleet. They embarass me!
Now, had you said we're getting 150 GMC RTS-02-01 buses, 225 Grumman 870 A's, and 345 New Flyer D40LF's, that would have been a fleet!
Sorry to be so harsh, but Ikarus?
It's a shame that SEPTA got rid of The RTS fleet. What SEPTA should have done with the RTS's is convert them into trolley buses, and ran them on the 29, 59, 66, 75, and 79 routes. They could have done that with some of The Neoplans as well, that way, the smog producers could become planet-savers, and that is another form of recycling, and recycling works.
That would be cool, but the trolleybus routes would still be running old buses. Also, aren't the trolley buses only 1979 models and the RTSs 1981 models? Also, those RTSs were pretty interesting to see on the road, and I guess I kinda liked them. Also, to convert a diesel bus into a trolley bus, wouldn't that be both very hard and very expensive?
I just heard recently that NYCT plans to move about 100 of the 1998 model MCI buses from Yukon to Ulmer Park Depot & that Ulmer Park Depot will not receive the 2000 model MCI buses.
If you have any information in regards to this matter, please post the information on bustalk & once again if there was a change to the express bus fleet assignment, please post that information on bustalk as well.
Finally, I forgot what you had said about Maspeth Bus Depot, when Maspeth Bus Depot begins construction, will they convert the AVIS garage into a bus depot just like they did with the former Woolworth's warehouse in the South Bronx back in 1984 when it was converted into the Walnut Bus Depot or will they have to tear down the AVIS garage & built a brand new depot & how many buses will be stored at Maspeth when it opens.
I really don't mean to ask you these questions, I just wanted to make sure that me & all busbffs get the right information.
As far as I know, the express assignments for the MCI DLW3SS and D4500 Cruisers has not changed and will not change.
And as for the Maspeth Depot and CMF it will be a totally brand new building, so because of this it will be few years (at least 3) until we see a Maspeth Facility in Full Swing!
Now, I've answered both these questions countless times and so has other people on this board, please take record, write it down, if anything changes, it's usually posted here so there is no need to continually repeat the same questions! And I'm not even gonna speak on the question directing!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Yesterday while at foxwoods I saw some old 35ft RTS's with automatice rear doors. I would say they were series 4 or older. They also had alot of New Nova Low Floors just like miss 995. They were owned by Gray Line. They had Trans Dot sings. They were being used as shuttle for the emploes parking lot. I think the RTS's were being used as guest shuttle buses to get to and from the casino and the hotels. Did anyone else ever go to Foxwoods and wee them.
Robert
Supposedly some of those 35-foot RTS's came from Long Beach, California. They were actually "03" series, started out life as slope-backs, and had a Sutrak air conditioning system installed so they look like square-backs....but the Sutrak rear-mount unit is aomswhat more square than a REAL squareback RTS (the top of the grille is flatter, as are the sides).
As far as last year when i was there, Arrow Bus Lines had the contract for the employee shuttle. One lot i know of is just off the I-95 exit (Exit 92). Some 7 miles away on a one lane road.
I remember them using MC9s back then, guess they needed a switch.
BTW, did they ever rebuild that Dunkin Donuts up there on Route 2 that burned to the ground last summer?? I was stuck in that traffic for 3 hours that day. That place was a gold mine for folks leaving the casino to go home about 3 or 4 in the morning.
Yes Dunkin Donuts was reopened. It even has a driver thur.
Robert
As far as last year when i was there, Arrow Bus Lines had the contract for the employee shuttle. One lot i know of is just off the I-95 exit (Exit 92). Some 7 miles away on a one lane road.
I remember them using MC9s back then, guess they needed a switch.
BTW, did they ever rebuild that Dunkin Donuts up there on Route 2 that burned to the ground last summer?? I was stuck in that traffic for 3 hours that day.
I have been to Foxwoods a couple of times,and had the opportunity to ride a couple of the Nova Low Floors.I believe they are operated by Arrow Line of East Hartford CT, a Coach USA company.The low floors are used for the shuttle from the guest parking lot #9 to the casino entrances.Also,the last time I was there back in June,Arrow also had a couple of MCI MC-5C motor coaches on this shuttle,of which I got to ride one,as well as get a photo.This particular coach was built in 1978 if I recall correctly from the spec plate above the drivers seat,has front and rear entrance/exit doors and pull cords for stop requests.A most interesting bus indeed.Anyone have any ideas who owned these particular buses before Arrow Line?
The RTS buses are used for shuttles from the employee parking lot to the casino and hotels on site,as well as guest shuttles from the hotels to the casinoI have seen both 35 and 40 foot RTS models in service there.I don't believe they are operated by Arrow,but by Foxwoods themselves.I did not have a chance to ride any of those in my past visits,but will try to do so next time down.If I can get a peek at the spec plate in one or more of them to find out when they were made,maybe we can determine who owned them prior to Foxwoods.
Mark Watson
Yes I was on that 1978 MCI from Lot 9, it has a rear door as well.
I wonder if that could be one of the special MCIs made for Saudi, Arabia in the mid/late 70s. The only MCIs ever made with rear doors, IIRC.
Peace,
ANDEE
Yeah, those all seemed to come back to the USA after Greyhound TASECO did not get the renewal contract.
Las Vegas Transit (the old one, operated by Gray Line of Southern Nevada) picked up five of them and used them in Strip Shuttle service. Grand Airways, one of the sightseeing operators that fly you into the Grand Canyon from Vegas, also bought a couple.
Not sure how many there were or how many came back, but when they did, it seemed like they were everywhere.
I have been to Foxwoods a couple of times,and had the opportunity to ride a couple of the Nova Low Floors.I believe they are operated by Arrow Line of East Hartford CT, a Coach USA company.The low floors are used for the shuttle from the guest parking lot #9 to the casino entrances.Also,the last time I was there back in June,Arrow also had a couple of MCI MC-5C motor coaches on this shuttle,of which I got to ride one,as well as get a photo.This particular coach was built in 1978 if I recall correctly from the spec plate above the drivers seat,has front and rear entrance/exit doors and pull cords for stop requests.A most interesting bus indeed.Anyone have any ideas who owned these particular buses before Arrow Line?
The RTS buses are used for shuttles from the employee parking lot to the casino and hotels on site,as well as guest shuttles from the hotels to the casinoI have seen both 35 and 40 foot RTS models in service there.I don't believe they are operated by Arrow,but by Foxwoods themselves.I did not have a chance to ride any of those in my past visits,but will try to do so next time down.If I can get a peek at the spec plate in one or more of them to find out when they were made,maybe we can determine who owned them prior to Foxwoods.
Mark Watson
Yes I was on that 1978 MCI from Lot 9, it has a rear door as well.
I wonder if that could be one of the special MCIs made for Saudi, Arabia in the mid/late 70s. The only MCIs ever made with rear doors, IIRC.
Peace,
ANDEE
Yeah, those all seemed to come back to the USA after Greyhound TASECO did not get the renewal contract.
Las Vegas Transit (the old one, operated by Gray Line of Southern Nevada) picked up five of them and used them in Strip Shuttle service. Grand Airways, one of the sightseeing operators that fly you into the Grand Canyon from Vegas, also bought a couple.
Not sure how many there were or how many came back, but when they did, it seemed like they were everywhere.
9 AM to 4 PM
M! SB
South Ferry only ----Bwy to Canal to Centre
M1 NB
Return via North on Centre
M6 SB
Bway to Canal .to Church
M6 NB
North on Church
M9 SB
East Bway to Chatham Sq,,Worth St Centre St.Canal St,West St,and Regular
M9 NB
North on West Str,Canal St.Bowery.Chatham Sq,U turn to East BWy and North
M15 SB
Park Row
Pike ,Madison St.St James Place.Terminate on St james place/nearside of Oliver at Chatham Sq
M15 NB
Via Chatham Sq,East Bwy
M22 WB
West on Worth St,Centre St,Canal St,West St,South on West St
M22 EB
North on West St,Cancal St.Bowery ,Chatham Sq,St James Pl.Madison St and Regular
M103 SB
Regular to Bowery and WOrth
M103 NB
west on Worth St,Centre St,Canal St,Bowery
What about the B51 & the Express runs down around Bdwy and City Hall/Park Row(Both DOT & NYCTA)
They were not included on the list..my material comes frmo official sources---only
M5 SB
Broadway to Nearside of Houston St
M5 NB
via Houston St,Lafeyette St,4 Av,Union Sq East,Park Av SOuth 23 st,6 Av and regualr
M6 NB
via Church ,Canal.Hudson St,8 av 23 St,6 Av and continue
M7 NB
From UNion Sq Terminal
West
via 14 St,UNion Sq Esat,Park Av SOuth 23 St,6 Av
M8 WB
West on 9 St,South on 5 Av to terminate
M8 EB
East on 8 st and regulr
CHRISTOPHER ST BET 7 av and West will remain closed at the conclusion of the parade.Upon reopening of 6 AV
M8 WB from 9 St ,,Terminate on 6 av
M8 WB
from Temporary Stand ...cross 6 Av,to Greenwich St.* st and regular
M21 WB
Houston St,,SOuth on Bway..Broome St.West Bway ,to Houston St
M21 EB
via East on HOuston St and regualr
10 AM to 6 PM
M10 NB
North on 8 Av,Columbus Circle Bway W 72 ,Central Pk West,and Regular
M10 SB
Cntral Park West ,W 66,Columbus Av,9 Av,W 57 ,Bway and regular
M20 NB
North on 8 ,Columbus Circ.Bway ,W 66,West End Av,65 St,COlumbus Av,to stand bet 64 and 65
M20 SB
via Columbus Av,9 Av,W57 ,BWay and regualr
M104 SB
Broadway.Columbus Av,9 Av,W57 st Broadway
M104 NB
8 Av,Columbus Cir,Broadway
X27 X28 X29 X10 X17 SB
via 57 St.Lexington .42 St,5 AV
X1 X6 X7 X9 X12 X14
South on 7 Av,42 St,5 Av,
M1 SB
1030 to 6 Pm
5 Av,E 72,,Lexington,E 39 ,Park Av south
M2 M3
SB
1030 to 6 PM
5 Av,E 72,Lexington ,E 42,5 Av
M4 SB
1030 to 6
5 Av,&2,Lexington ,42 St 5 Av
Q32 WB Lexington ,42 St,5 Av
M5 Sb
Bway ,LExington Av,42 St 5 Av
M5 NB
6 Av,57 St,8 Av Columbus Circle
M6 NB
6 Av,57 st,7 Av to stand bet 56 an 57
M6 SB
regualr route
M7 SB
Columbus Av,9 Av,57 St,7 Av
M7 NB
6 Av,57 St,8 ,COlumbus Circle
HISPANIC COLUMBUS DAY PARADE
11 AM to 5 PM
5 Av bet 44 and 72 st
M1 SB
5 Av 74 st,Lexington ,39 St,Park Av
m2 m3 m4
SB
5 Av,74 ,Lexington ,39 St,5 Av
M5 SB
Central Park South ,7 Av,42 St,5 Av
Q32 SB
60 St>Lexington Av,42 St,5 Av
M66 WB
West on 67 st,Lexington ,66 St,Central Park Transverse
M72 EB
East on 65,Madison ,68 st,1 Av,72 st,
X1 SB
7 Av,42 st,5 Av
x10south
57,lex,42,5 av
Call 1 888 NYCT BUS
Is there an 800 number one could call for the Insider's Guide to Subways?
What's wrong with the 888 number FDNY gave you? As far as I know, an 888 number is toll free as well. The 800 numbers are filled up.
It is toll free although you have to be in the New York area to call. When I tried to call that number about 5 months ago from my home which isn't near NYC, I was told I couldn't make the call.
[What's wrong with the 888 number FDNY gave you?]
The 888 number FDNY gave is for the Dept. of Buses. Turnstiles asked about the Insiders Guide to Subways. (Hopefully, it's not a crime to ask a question like that on BusTalk, although the chances of the correct answer may be greater on SubTalk!) Probably the best number to call is not a toll free number - MTA New York City Transit Customer Service (718) 330-3322.
Thanks!
Hello does anybody have a operators manual for the orion v for sell please let know. feel free to email me. thanks this is one of the best sites on the web!!!!!!!:)
HAVE NEW YORK CITYBUS-MTA EVER HAD BUSES IN ALLOVER ADVERTS, APART FROM IN HOUSE STUFF LIKE METROCARD etc.
You mean a "full wrap"?
Haven't seen one. Yet.
But there are TA buses that have a full ad on the back of the bus.
Most of the seven nycDOT, i.e. "private", bus companies have full wraps on their GMC/TMC RTS. The Orions have a one side wheel to wheel wrap, plus many MCIs have the entire rear wrapped. Also a number of MCI at this depot have lighted side adv. (standard size adv, with light around the frame).
Mr t__:^)
TO VIRGINIA DIVISION BMT.
YES WRAP AROUND ADVERTS, WINDOWS COVERED OR NOT. IF SO WHAT WAS THE OCCASION
Last week, I made a rather spontaneous trip to the city of brotherly love, and naturally, there was no way I was going to leave without riding SEPTA at least once.
After two or more years of reading page upon page of SEPTA criticism, my expectations were not very high. My travel companion was a native of Philly who affectionately refered to the system as "Septic" even though he had not ridden SEPTA in years.
First, if I didn't know better, I would say that most of SEPTA's buses are articulated. The 7100's were everywhere, and they looked really good. Not only did these new buses look good, but nearly every SEPTA bus I saw was very clean (with the noticeable exception of some 8700's) and they all sounded very well maintained.
The buses were running at very regular intervals, bunching did not seem to be a problem.
Watching buses pass is one thing, but riding the system is another. It was time to put SEPTA to the test.
I went to a stop which had just been passed by two buses. Expecting to wait for a while, I saw an approaching bus a few blocks away. Total waiting time: no more than five minutes.
The bus, NABI 5026, was spotlessly clean when it screeched to a stop. I boarded, and while expected to exchange not a word with the driver, she voluntarily greeted me as I transacted my cash with the farebox. More than anything else, I was impressed with the interior of the bus. The floors and seats were reasonably clean for a big city bus, the bus was devoid of any sort of stench or odor, and I thought the actual design of the seat fabric was attractive and comfortable. I also liked the midship placement of the side destination sign.
I noticed that the automated stop announcements were driver-activated. The info display sign was well placed and gave just the right amount of information. The metal partition between the driver and the passenger cabin was an interesting feature, kind of cool looking.
I did not have a chance to use the back doors. How are they operated? But, when I left the bus, the driver thanked me.
Of course, my single trip on one bus did not even begin to give me a broad enough overview of SEPTA's operations to solidify my opinion, but my one trip was a very good experience.
There's a lot that implies that SEPTA is fresh off some hard times. But if what I saw Saturday was a symbol of things to come, then they truly must be serious about change.
Neil Greenberg
nagreenb@umich.edu
ĦQue viva el subjuntivo!
The back doors of the bus are operated by the driver (no bars). Also, you see, Septa isn't that bad! There are just a lot of critics in this room. To tell you the truth, LTS is sorta modeled after SEPTA. Anyway, you had a pretty friendly driver, though, and if you thought the bus was good, wait till you ride the El and the regional rail. They are great.
It's been about 8 years since I last rode a SEPTA bus and I didn't find them to be too bad at all. At the time SEPTA still had many RTS in service and although they showed their age they were pretty decent.
Wayne
I don't like the location of that sign. Oh well. The interior announcements are driver activated???
You know, PAT in Pittsburgh did the same thing with their Orions. Also, I think the location of that sign makes those buses unique, and in a way I think it's better since if you were farther back from the front door you can see where the bus is goign, and if you were at the front door you could just look at the front destination sign. However, I prefer the location of the signs like the New Neoplans, at the second window rather than the 3rd. Also, did you ever see those bilevel side destination signs on Miami-Dade Transit?
Never seen bilevel signs but that must be annoying. The new Orions have bilevel on the front making it hard to read from a distance since it will took something like this:
32FriendshipHeights
Never seen bilevel signs but that must be annoying. The new WMATA Orions have bilevel on the front if the reading is very long making it hard to read from a distance since it will took something like this:
32FriendshipHeights
It's actually not that bad, really. I mean, the print is in bold (At least for the NABIs) so it shouldn't really be that bad anyway.
In DC or Philly? I can't complain about the Philly signs except for the location of it and the interior sign not always showing every stop. The bold route number is OK but not if you are going beyond a certain point.
Well, now they don't even use the interior sign that much anymore, but they basically announce the main stops and route connections. Also. And the destination sign used to make all of these cool pictures like candy canes for Happy Holidays and buses for Take next bus. Also, if the SEPTA interior signs announced every stop that a route serves, it woudln't be able to show the date and time, as well as the route it is serving and such.
That is the most useless info. I don't really care about the date, time, or where the bus is going once I'm on it. Today is today, I get to my destanation when I arrive, and I wouldn't get on the bus unless it was going unless it was going where I wanted to go. All I want to know once I'm on the bus is where I am. It once didn't announce 30th Street Station on the 44 which was where I was going. Here in DC, all the interior sign tells us is our location and the lady will occasionally remind us no eating, drinking, or smoking and the front seats are priority seating.
She also politely says, "Stop Requested" when you pull the cord. Such a nice lady she is. I'm waiting for them to program it to say Good morning and Have a nice day, so the bus drivers can have as little interaction with the passengers as possible.
I can't stand that. I liked it when she only did stops. They since toned down the announcements and added that obnoxious stop requested thing. I don't mind it when the other announcements are off but when they are on, she is really irritating.
Yeah, I think the drivers turn it off after awhile. I remember talking to one bus driver who said, "ENOUGH, I know where I'm going already!!!" I know that due to ADA laws they have to have it, but pretty soon it seems like that she will just end up talking the whole way and you wont be able to have a conversation with anyone else.
Actually, I've seen fewer and fewer drivers use it since it was introduced on the 4200-series Orions in 1998. Most are, as you pointed out, royally pissed off by it (you can understand why; listening to that inanely businesslike voice say 'the front seats are priority seating for mobility-impaired and elderly passengers only' over and over and over again could drive anyone insane) so most turn off the sound.
Chris
Wow! I have never really known that Metro actually added that to their Orion voice announcement systems. Oh well. Also, I do understand how that can be annoying, so why don't they just complain to the metro headquarters. The buses should just have those little stickers that say "Yeild for elderly or handicapped"
I talked to a driver who said it annoyed him and turned it off. The only problem with that is the costumers sometimes need it so they know where they go.
Yeah, considering that ADA laws are so strict about what buses need to have to be compliant, the drivers are actually doing a disservice by turning it off. DC is too political a city to be messing around with that kind of thing and if the wrong person happens to be riding that bus and catches that happening, a nice little lawsuit could come out of it.
I remember when I used to work for Metro Access and we were late to pick up this one lady, she complained all the way up to her Senator, because the buses were late once in awhile, and Metro Access got in a lot of trouble.
As we all know, some Ride-On trips are operated by WMATA. Well, anyway, this morning on Ride-On 36, instead of the 35 foot Metro-B in Ride-On colors, there was a 40 foot Flxible Metro-B. I believe this was 9221 but I was unable to catch the unit number. The bus was in MetroBus colors with Blue Ride-On stickers on the front and back. I didn't see what the sign said though. While there probably was no problem with setting the sign to read 36 BETHESDA, I am wondering if all buses can say
36 CONNELY
36 SCHOOL
36 BRADLEY
36 BLVD
I didn't see this bus in the afternoon. All the 35 footers were on the route and both buses had their signs reading .M36 BETHESDA and .M36 CONNELY SCHOOL. Normally, one of the buses reads ..36 BETHESDA.
Maybe WMATA is planning to paint some of the 40 footers (such as the one you saw) in Ride-On colors. Also - Those (5100 series) Flxible Metro B are actually 30 feet long.
Wayne