i AM TRYING TO GET BACK ON LINE FOR bUIS tALK, SO THIS IS A TEST
pRESS YOUR cAPS lOCK KEY111
Out of curiosity I was wondering who would qualify as a "Most Extreme Busfan" that we know of.
Would someone who has a tatoo of thier favorite transit agency logo be a contender?
Any ideas are apprieciated.
Blue
That would be ME BY ALL COST. I just made an appointment to have a MTA logo tatto placed on my arm and a "Flxible" Logo on my other arm with the word's "METRO D 3700" under it!
Trevor Logan
What happens if the MTA changes its logo?
At least I'll have reminants of the this existing logo, plus I think this is the best MTA logo thus far, that old "M" sucked!
Trevor
Well I was wondering if anyone was as equally crazy as I am.
On Monday I had a Southern California Rapid Trnsit District logo applied to my left arm in Hollywierd.
My quite beloved now sadly extinct logo from kiddiehood busfanning.
By far the most amazing logo I have ever seen and I am proud as hell to have it.
Whats next embedded Token piercings?
Blue
Just like last week with GBL Bus 630 giving Bus 641 a boost, today was just as a weird scenario at 63 Ave and Queens Blvd today. 5160 was on the X63 with it's cover up and right behind her giving her a boost was 4586. I guess the older the bus, the better it is. Go figure!
Q17#4560Gary
Also, 9572 was in the Fresh Pond maintenance area two Saturdays ago without its engine! The bad news is that it's back on the road now.
Saw her on the B24 today.
Q58#9153Gary
Sign on my side of the street said it was at 62nd Ave. Of course, it took an hour to get it on the hook once the truck from CS showed up.
-Hank :)
You must have been on the North Side of Queens Blvd. The south side of Queens Blvd says 63 Ave.
Q60#5505Gary
I work in the office tower there.
-Hank
The new Orions have impacted some bus assignments. I saw 42XX running on the even 30s this morning and 4341 was running on the T2 this afternoon. There is now a 30/ trip operated by a fishbowl. It is the 7:52 AM trip on weekdays and only operates until August 11 to alleviate summer crowding. It is being operated by 3806 or 3608, I forget which. The trip doesn't appear on the printed schedule.
I saw the N3 and X3 for the first time today. Both were empty. The N3 was about to leave Friendship Heights, the X3 was at Wisconsin and Newark and about to reach the McLean Gardens Terminal.
From my summer camp, I saw 9X05 didn't have the hump on the top. Any reason why? It was running on the D6.
The Silver Bus (9343) is now running out of Bladensburg. I saw it on the H4 today and the route ID said B.
Do the remaining fishbowls get retired because of the delivery of the new Orions?
Thanks, in advance.
I'm not really sure. I mean, metro seemed to have kept their fishbowls for a long time. Most of them probably will be put in garages, or will just be used in DC, which is where they operate the older flxibles. The routes you listed are in the suburbs, like Virginia and Maryland.
Saw 15XX on the N3 this morning at Friendship Heights. These things are around, but rare. Either I missed this morning's 7:52 30 or it was operated by one of the new Orions, most likely the first. The first thing the sign said over the standee line was "WESTERN GARAGE". As soon as we pulled out, it went blank, then it changed to "WISC & WILLARD" with no announcement (that stop should be called Western), and then for "MAZZA GALLERIE" it did the announcement as it did for the rest of the line. Why would it say "WESTERN GARAGE" is my question.
Oh my gosh, now I feel really bad. Orions suck. The NABI indoor signs don't get messed up like that. My word, and to think that Orions are my favorite buses.
I don't know for sure, but I'd think that the arrival of the new Orion V & VI will permit WMATA to retire the remaining new look buses. I don't see many at all these days, but I did see GMC TDH-5304 #6428 yesterday - I believe it was operating on one of the D's.
Wayne
The bus without the hump that you may have seen could have been 9305, which is a 40' Flx and operates out of the Bladensburg lot that the D line comes out of. The ones with the air conditioning unit on top are 9701-9836.
I still see the RTS running around in VA. Saw 9040 on the 4A the other day. Also spotted 9108 and 9109 coming out of the Rockville lot getting ready to head out on a run.
I haven't seen a fishbowl in a long time and no Flx New looks in several months. I think the new Orions definitely mean the end to those old guys.
I had heard that WMATA wanted to purchase over the road coaches to use on the Chantily and Centreville runs, but Fairfax county didn't want to chip in for the funding for those types of buses, which probably also means that they would rather have Fairfax Connector do those runs rather than WMATA.
The RTS buses also serve the White Oak area in Silver Spring, like the K6. WMATA has changed their RTSs, at least the destination signs. For a while, the RTSs haven't been used, but now they are back. Also, the new Orions definitely won't be used in the city. Probably the older Orions and maybe the newer Flxibles will be used in the city. Let's just hope that they won't get rid of the New-Looks.
I see plenty of new Orion V's in the District on the G2, the 30's and S2, S4 and other routes. Now what I haven't seen operating in the District are the Orion VI's.
Wayne
I don't think that they are popular yet, since there aren't that many in the fleet. You might see them in a while, but I doubt that metro will put them in dc as soon as they get them. I mean, although the new Orions are, well, new, they aren't brand new. I think they are one or two years old now.
Yes there are 2 year old Orions (39XX,42-44XX series) but WMATA also has brand new Orions (21XX & 22XX series) in addition to the Orion VI (20XX series)
Wayne
Vs and VIs??? Unit #s would be appreciated then...
New bus (now cant say if V or VI) on P Street @ Wisc Ave this afternoon out of service.
The Orion V's in the 2100 and 2200's are only a couple of months old as are the VI's. The VI that I was on recently, 2004, had problems with the announcements as it flashed on the place that we had began at way in the middle of the trip, stuck for awhile on another street, then stuttered on another street. Bad recording. I've only seen the VI's in Va. I'm sure they'll show up in DC. Its possible the 38B that runs from Ballston to Farragut Sq. has had one assigned to it.
The 4201-44xx Orions are a couple of years old now and the 9600 Orions are about 8 years old. My personal favorite WMATA buses are any Flxible 9701-9836 and 4001-4104.
When you say Flxible 9791-9835 do you mean the newest ones or those old ones that are only used in the city? Also, I'm not sure what my favorite WMATA buses are anymore (used to be the Orions). Maybe the RTSs, they were pretty interesting.
The 9701-98xx are the Flxible Metros with the air conditioning unit on top. These are used all over the area. Mainly in DC, though. I've seen a few in Va, 9815-9821 and a few in the high 9820's. Some Orions' in the 9650s to 9661 were swapped from Bladensburg to Montgomery for the 9770s Flxs. I guess this was done to even out the mileage as those Orions were used heavily in the city and are now a little more pampered being in the suburbs. Now the Flxs that were used exclusively in the suburbs are getting beat up in the city.
I wouldn't mind the RTS if they had more power. That was the complaint I heard about the ones here from a former bus operations person that worked at metro when they arrived in 1979. They were severly underpowered and I guess that is why no more were ever ordered. WMATA seems to have the ability of buying the worst buses around, like the AM Generals in the early 70's.
Re: WMATA RTS - I don't know what engine they originally had in them. I want to guess it was the DD 6V-71 because they were definitely lacking in power and I've never heard anyone complain about the other engine, the DD 8V-71 being underpowered. It had to be one of these 2 engines because the DD 6V-92TA which WMATA's RTS were repowered with weren't offered in the RTS until the 04 series.
[WMATA seems to have the ability of
buying the worst buses around, like the AM Generals in the early 70's. ] While this may be true - let's be happy that in terms of management (and common sense) WMATA with it's somewhat limited resources seems to be light years ahead of the NYCTA.
Wayne
This is true. To be able to still run buses that are almost 40 years old and have them look just as good as the newer buses is a credit to the management and maintenance staff. They do a really good job rehabbing the buses to "like new" condition. The 1986 and 87 Flx Metros 8700-89xx that have been rehabbed appear to be running just as good as they did when they were new 15 years ago. Its hard to believe that those buses are so old.
It just seems like the RTS strains to pick up speed. I think it may be me being used to cummins engines that seem to make the bus pick up a little faster than a DD. I wish WMATA would rehab the RTS, but I have this feeling they are just going to let them die out little by little until the new Orions take over.
WMATA did some work on the destination signs on the RTSs. That's all I know they might have done, though. Also, I agree that they keep their older metrobuses pretty well, unlike SEPTA. That's why i like the WMATA so much. Also, I'm pretty sure that WMATA will save the RTSs. After all, they did save the New-Looks. Also, have you ridden an RTS in the past year? I haven't, but I know that for a while they had disappeared from the road until pretty recently.
The RTS' have been used regularly for a long time on L-bus routes out of Friendship Heights. Haven't ridden on one in ages cuz I'm never going that way. I think they'll keep them for a few more years, at least. I like their interiors, though the exteriors seem to be falling apart (has anyone ever seen an RTS WITHOUT the back engine panel hanging ajar?).
I've been out of town most of the past month and been driving more often than riding when in DC this summer, but I haven't seen any new O-VI's in the city yet. I may take a trip out to Va. just to catch a glimpse ... any good bus-watching spots where these come regularly?
I THINK I saw one of the new 22XX O-Vs within DC the other day. Are these perfectly identical to the 42XX series delivered in '98 or are there any changes?
And finally, a railfan neighbor gave me an old (1985) book on WMATA's construction, which included a photo of a Neoplan city bus in WMATA colors. Very handsome vehicle. I very much doubt if any of these are still in use, but does anyone have any information on or recollection of these units? Roster #'s, dates of service/retiring, and locations of any put-to-pasture units would be interesting.
Best,
Chris
I remember when the RTS's didn't have the backpack on them. I think they were put on in the middle 80's. The slopeback version used to have space for advertising. The one I remember was a WKYS ad that was raised. It was cool looking.
The Neoplans were in the 9500's. I think they were taken out of service because a lot developed hairline fractures to the frames. They had been stored for a time in the Southern Ave. Annex, wherever that is. I had seen them up until a few year ago used on the Southeeast routes.
The best place to see any buses would be the Pentagon during rush hour. YOu will probably see every type of WMATA bus available since so many routes operate out of there. YOu will most likely bump into fishbowls, a bunch of RTS, and there would have to be some Orion VI's running around. If you can get to the Four MIle Run Garage off Glebe rd. and Jefferson Davis Hwy. you may be able to see some stored there as well. That is about 2 miles South of the Pentagon past Crystal City. You will also see PRTC buses stored there.
Have a great time!
Too bad about the Neoplans. That wasn't a very long service life for them, though. Do any other jurisdictions have Neoplan city buses currently in use? Any pictures of them on TransiTalk or similar boards?
I will have to go to the Pentagon sometime soon and bus-watch. I think they've relocated the bus platform since the last time I was there for security reasons ... ?
Finally, what's the purpose of the "backpacks" on the RTS buses? I too recall the slope-back versions. Does the backpack conceal a retrofitted air conditioner or something?
The KYS ad must have been something. I imagine they were still using the pink "kiss" lips for their logo ... that thing's been around forever. I still have one of those freebie stickers in my car that they gave about about ten years ago, and the logo's the exact same as today!
Chris
I agree that The Pentagon is the best place to bus watch WMATA buses. You will see each type of WMATA buses except maybe the 31 foot Gilligs. The backpacks on the 01/03 series is a retrofit to A/C. The original design which permitted the slope back proved to be a bad design.
Wayne
Pentagon bus platform will be relocated but hasn't yet.
A good place in Virginia to look for WMATA buses is Alexandria, near the metro station. there are also DASH buses there too (Orion Is and Gilligs) and the Fairfax connecter. adn I don't think I have seen the engine door ajar on the K6 RTSs.
I've actually seen MORE Flxibles and fishbowls lately. Flxibles in the 9000s and 8000s are being used alot on the 30s.
yeah, as a matter of fact, I haven't seen fish bowls and flxibles in a long time, but then I saw one operating in the city. I think you just have to look deep in DC for them, and you should find at least one.
Just heard on the news that MTA Bus 8485 was involved in a serious accident on 34th street in Midtown Manhattan near 9th avenue.
34 people on the bus were injured as well as a traffic cop who was on the street, some seriously. The accident happened around 7pm.
Officials aren't sure what happened to the driver, who was also injured.
Shaun
supposedly the 25 year old b/o blacked out or something.
i was nearby (29 and 8) but chose to skip it, instead trying to get home to queens early only to have some jackass on my E train pull the cord and delay us a half hour or more.
Since no one has said it as yet, let me be the first: Take those damn things off our streets!! These buses are a menace. Next you know, they'll run down innocent actors. The smoke they belch out is terrible and the riders look right into our apartment windows.
Sound familiar?
JC
According to your philosophy, all vehicles should be eliminated from the street because they all emit noxious fumes and the older ones are worse. No way of transportation except pure NYC electricity subway which is crap because ConEd has no idea wtf they are doing. Stick with hybrids!
--Clayton Parker--
Slow down! It's a sarcastic reference to what has happened to Big Apple tours.
-Hank
Thanx, Hank. I was wondering how many would miss the mark.
Take a New Yorker to know!
Joe C
On my way into work today I spotted RTS # 3319 on the back of a flatbed truck heading northbound on the Major Deegan Expressway. According to the Depot roster located on TransiTalk, the bus was being stored in Maspeth. The truck hauling the bus belonged to a private company. Anybody have any ideas as to where the bus was heading?
Was on the #7 train this morning and saw 2 RTS buses from the Jamaica Depot in the little "Mini Parking Lot" just outside of College Point Boulevard in Flushing. I was only able to see 2 of the 5 buses there but the numbers were 3497 and 4218.
Does anyone know if they are being scrapped and are there temporarily or have they changed depots? Or are they there for repairs?
Also - another question from left field. Does anyone know why Georgi Vodka advertises during the summer on the NYCTA buses but Majorska Vodka, an advertising mainstay of NYCTA during the 70's and early 80's - does not advertise anymore? Last time I saw an ad of theirs was in 1988 on a Command Bus in the City Hall area
Thanks folks.
I'm sure they'll wind-up at QV where all buses come to die... LOL!
Today i went to Main St to snap some Orion & Dot Buses & i went to see where RTS Storage in College Point. I saw 6 RTS with #95xx & 8 Orions. All i saw is #297-298 & other i couldn't see the number. I want to know why those Orion Buses doing in College Point Storage Yard???? Something wrong with those Orion Buses???
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
David:
Is the College Point Storage Yard the one right off College Point Boulevard, between Roosevelt and 41st Avenue? If it is, that's where the Jamaica buses were.
By the way, in addition to 297 and 298, bus #295 is there.
flx7595
If memory serves, buses 295-299 have Cummins C8.3 engines. The engines have had starting problems, don't have advanced emissions controls, and are orphans at NYCT, so they are supposed to be replaced with Detroit Diesel Series 50s and new transmissions during the 6-year upgrade on the buses. Perhaps they are in the College Point yard awaiting delivery of the new engines and transmissions.
David
I never liked the way 295-299 ran. Rough idle, slow, and had a bad burning smell. I remember riding them a year or two ago.
David:
I always wondered why #298 and 299 sounded different.
#295-297 sounded like normal buses sometimes, other times they sounded like they had a different engine in them.
Actually, both 298 and 299 are on the road - and sound more - normal I guess. But bus #300 sounds like it has one of those engines you described. But it is on the road.
Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.
i know its referred to as the stengel annex. much like yukon stores some MCIs at the arthur kill turnaround, stengel stores some at the college point yard beacuse i believe they are doing some work at stengel.
at night you can upwards of 20 or 30 orions parked here. some runs pull out of here in the AM.
To may understanding,the college point yard is used mainly during the baseball season too help with the going and leaving shea,this is what a driver from the depot told me awhile back.
correction,my,not may,the eyes are a little tried tonite
Maybe these buses are used for Express Service from 61 St Woodside to Randalls Island? (X81) I remember when Jamaica Buses were stored there when JG had their CNG Problems. Hopefully, that's not happening there again.
R36Gary
I thought all old buses came to Fresh Pond to die!
New buses also go there to die!
The reason 3497 and one of the 42's is sitting in Flushing is this. Right now, Jamaica depot is having it's entire yard repaved. All buses that are not in service right now because of mechanical problems have been sent to other locations to keep the yard cleared out. About 2 weeks ago I saw 3497 sitting in the section of the yard about to get torn up, with no farebox in it. It must have a major problem but I forgot to ask the mechanics what it was. I don't know what happened to 4217 or 4218(the orig. post lists 2 different buses by mistake) I'll find out on Monday and post again. BIG AL
JAM buses in CS annex are:
3497, 4217, 4350, 4574, 4575, 4597, 8974, 9347, 9536, 5162 and 5165
Saw two NYCT buses that broke down today. One of Yukon's 6200 series Orions was at 86th street and would not start (it was dead), with repair truck on scene and rear cover up. Saw this going on while waiting for S79.
Also saw 404 on Roosevelt ave in Flushing at the S/B Q44 bus stop OOS with repair truck on scene.
And saw LI Bus 212 on the N20 having problems with brake release. Man what is up with those Orions? Had poor A/C on some S.I. buses today and some of them seemd slow. Aren't all of Yukon's 6XXX buses new and should be running faster. And all the LI Buses I was on today had no A/C (N21 both ways).
For some reason it seems Queens Surface keeps up it's buses better than MTA!? Is it Orion or maint. probs?
I guess new york just doesn't get the good orion buses, although I think orions are great, they aren't that amazing. I guess they try so much to use materials most people know and have in their garages that they don't improve the buses that much lol.
Perhaps the MTA has bad maint. And it's not just LI Bus with A/C problems, saw several NYCT buses in Queens with all windows open (no A/C?).
I guess it's the MTA. I'm up here in Utica, NY and our Orions are running pretty well. Our only problem is since we have 35 footers, whenever we put on the A/C, the bus heater comes on and makes the A/C useless. Climate control sucks. By the way, we're 10 minutes away from the Orion bus plant in Oriskany. Maybe that's why we get Orions and really good buses.
B61 Leonard
Had diesel Orion 622 on the N21 today and it kept getting stuck, not stalling. When the driver hit the accelerator it moved very slowly and took a few times to get to regular speed. The driver was on the radio with control when I got off.
I don't think the MTA as a whole takes good care of their buses. Rather I think they take money from bus service to maintain the aging subway and commuter rail lines.
Queens Surface has Orion CNG buses and they run perfectly fine.
Also Suffolk Transit is getting some and they are having no problems.
M34 ACCIDENT ON 34TH AND 8TH
Peace,
ANDEE
does anone know what nuber the bus was?
loked like a fairly new RTS.
Blue
The bus number was 8485.
That's the...
running on...
's
answers.
"The bus number was 8485."
R68 5200: You beat me by 58 second.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Haha!
That's the...
running on...
's
victory speech.
No, actually, David, you made it about 2 minutes before him. Remember, 15:59 comes before 16:01.
Mr. Blue: It was TMC-RTS #8485
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
Q32 eastbound
Queens Blvd. & 46th Street
10:02AM
02 August 2000
Hey, If you see someone running, waving, and yelling towards your bus, he most likely wants to get on! :)
That's what I was doing toward this bus, in service at the above information, but I didn't get on because the driver didn't open the doors!
Maybe the person he waited for earlier in the day didn't acknowledge the fact he waited via a simple "thank you", but rather, instered the fare, looked for a seat, and sat down?
I don't think in New York you are really suppose to let people on away from the stop. When I was in Manhatten, I ran towards a bus, waiting to get on (it was at a stop light for crying out loud) but he would let me on. I know that the WMATA has that policy. SEPTA in the suburbs has a flag policy where you can board a bus from anywhere on a route, as long as you are in a safe place and you signal the driver to stop.
Once the bus leaves the bus stop, you are not permitted to board more intending passengers. Any operator who does is risking his job. Of course, those drones at "Customer Service" will act suprised, and tell you lies. I called them once and asked a question about this issue. They told me, "Well, if you're at a red light, you might as well let them on". I asked, "Well, what if the person falls and gets injured"? He said... "Well, that's on YOU!"
Ride-On has the same policy because a 23 driver wouldn't let me on even though he was still in the station. It's pretty stupid because they lose the fares which gives them their salaries.
Yeah, but I guess safety is important, because they think the bus stops are the only safe place to board a bus, lol.
Use your judgement there. There was nothing to hit me, nothing in the driver's way, and the light to leave the bus station was red. More often than not, drivers allow passengers to board at the light that lets the buses go onto Wisconsin Circle. Only the drivers who are worried sick about their pay and loosing their job won't let you do that and those are the operators who I don't like. My opinion is that if you don't like driving the bus, quit and find a job you do like.
Only the drivers who are worried sick about their pay and loosing their job won't let you do that and those are the operators who I don't like. My opinion is that if you don't like driving the bus, quit and find a job you do like.
You're not making sense. How do you know they don't like their job? By your statement, they DO like the job; they're afraid to lose it!
It's the driver's judgement. If he decides it's unsafe, it's unsafe. Someone can come out from behind him, try to pass on the right, and you're road pizza. Someone behind him can be anticpating the bus accelerating, and rear-end it. When you eventually get a license, you'll see what I'm talking about. Just because the law says you're not supposed to do x, doesn't mean that people follow the law. Just look at the speed limit. Or the entrance ramp to the Brooklyn Bridge from the southbound FDR.
-Hank
Thanks Hank.... your perspective and approach was better than mine. It's comments such as those that I "hear" on a daily basis. I suppose an explanation would have better served the individual.... and I'm glad to see one of us had the sense to relay it :-)
It doesn't suprise me how little the general riding public knows about my job, but here... among bus enthusiasts, I expected a greater level of "inside knowledge".
QV
That's a problem here. 'Enthusiasts' who don't see the reason the bus route exists. THey want a big bus, preferably a 1963 GM New Look, to serve every stop every time.
-Hank
Hey, I don't want a New Look to be serving my routes. It's bad enough to have an 80's Neoplan AN440 serving my stop. I definitely don't want a 60's bus serving the stop. I actually prefer the new buses, like the NABIs and newer Neoplans(I still need to ride them). That's why I never understood why these "Enthusiasts" want ancient buses serving their areas. Times have changed, my friends, and the new buses are taking over. Not that I hate the older buses (I lost one of my teeth on a New look on the WMATA), but I prefer to be in nice air conditioning with clocks available and stops being announced.
I don't know what the story is down South with WAMATA, but here in NY once you pull the front of the bus away from the curb, you are not supposed to let any passengers board or alight. Now, lets forget about the accident scenario. All the person has to do if he or she gets on while the bus is not at the curb is slip. Guess who the first person is, that person is calling. It's not the doctor. It's not transit. Yup, it's the lawyer. The first thing out of that person's mouth is: "Well, he shouldn't have let me on the bus since he was away from the curb. Now I'm hurt. I want money." Even though they tried to get on the bus, the first thing they'll do is try to blame you for something. So the bottom line is :ONLY PICK UP IN THE BUS STOP. BIG AL
Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 2 19:37:26 2000, in response to Re: To the driver of NYCB #579, posted by Basman on Wed Aug 2 17:59:11 2000
Use your judgement there. There was nothing to hit me, nothing in the driver's way, and the light to leave the bus station was red. More often than not, drivers allow passengers to board at the light that lets the buses go onto Wisconsin Circle. Only the drivers who are worried sick about their pay and loosing their job won't let you do that and those are the operators who I don't like. My opinion is that if you don't like driving the bus, quit and find a job you do like.
Use your judgement there.
We use our judgement every second of every day dodging cars that cut us off, pedestrians that enjoy walking in front of our bus, navigating city traffic, and so on.
There was nothing to hit me, nothing in the driver's way, and the light to leave the bus station was red.
There are rules we must obey, just as in any job one has. One rule clearly states that once a bus leaves a bus stop, it is prohibited from boarding more passengers. Aside from that, what is to prevent you from falling while boarding the bus? The objective here is liability. The liability falls on the TA while the bus is in the bus stop. Outside the stop, liability rests with the operator. We have enough to deal with than to worry about losing our jobs just to be a "nice guy".
More often than not, drivers allow passengers to board at the light that lets the buses go onto Wisconsin Circle.
I can't comment on that. I don't know where "Wisconsin Circle" is.
Only the drivers who are worried sick about their pay and loosing their job won't let you do that and those are the operators who I don't like. My opinion is that if you don't like driving the bus, quit and find a job you do like.
Now that is the stupidist, most assinine comment I've heard while accessing and participating here in this group. Tell ya what, if you don't like the rules we live by, change them or find other means of transportation. Judging by your message, I'd say that you're a kid.... when you grow up, you'll understand what "pay and loosing a job" means.
Safety is #1 priority. NYCT bus operators are instructed by Hudson Pier School Superintendents, NOT to open the doors for any one in between bus stops. If something was to happen to a customer, it will be the bus operators fault.
We were on WMATA property. I still consider the area between the bay and Wisconsin Circle to be the stop. It is Metro's juristiction so I imagine that the liability issue is solved there. Also, falling was extremely hard to do since it was the middle of the summer on a rainy day and no ice or puddles to slip and fall in.
"also, falling was extremely hard to do since it was the middle of summer on a RAINY DAY and no ice or puddles to slip and fall in". I can't believe what I'm reading here. You've never seen anyone slip in the rain? Do you think the front steps are just as safe when they are wet as when they are dry? WMATAGMOAGH, I think you need to get out into the rain some more. BIG AL
I think Metro just has so many stops that they think it's enough to just let you on at those stops. Also, no transit agency that I know of let's you on away from the stop in the city, since it is so busy and crowded. Besides, stopping away from the stop holds up traffic.
LI Buses often do pick up people who aren't exactly at the stop, especially if the bus is stopped at a light.
LIB is suburban minded. i dont know but perhaps there is a rule allowing a paseenger to flag down a bus on its route and as long as the operator deems it safe to stop and open the doors, he can.
The popint im trying to make is that on many nassau roads, the bus is already all the way to the right as most thoroughfares dont allow parking. therefore, the operator usually doesnt have to worry about covering his right side all the time and making sure it is b4 he opens the door.
You're all missing the point. I was running towards the bus before it left the bus stop!
were you within the yellow painted curb zone?
if not then youre out of luck.
you might be a beakie looking for a little sympathy and grab an unsuspecting b/o who lets you on the middle of the street and pulled over covering 4 feet on the right.
then you write him up and start the ball rolling on his dismissal or reinstruction and blacklisting.
when they dont let you on its for good reason, even though the customer isnt going to understand.
Appx 11AM, GBL 5517 on the Q60 collided with a Lincoln Town Car at Queens Blvd and 63rd Dr. No passenger injuries. Light damage to the right front of the bus, heavy damage to the left rear of the Lincoln with HDP permits. Ambulance on the scene, but no one being treated.
-Hank
Sounds like poor judgement on the part of the BO (attempting to go around/pass the car?). He'll be found 100% at fault for this accident because it happened in front of him. Even if the car cut him off and stopped abruptly (which happens all the time).
Was on 5505 on Q60 at that time and the bus had to pick up passengers on the main road because they had the service road blocked off b/c of the accident. Driver was at fault from what it appeared.
Q60#5505Gary
GBL 5517 is now sitting at Atlantic Diesel in Bohemia, L.I. I didn't notice any damage but I will take another look on Monday. Also GBL 249 is sitting next to 5517.
Why are the articulated busses kept mainly in the Bronx?
They're at both Kingsbridge and Gun Hill.
Wayne
Heard a rumor from a CS Driver that they may be used on the Q12 and Q27 soon. Is that true?
Q26#6120Gary
Just would like too say while in Flushing yesterday i happened too see Bus Number 541 on the L.I. line was driving with almost all of the windows open,behind that was another Nassau bus,didnt get the number,but it too had almost all the windows open,with the heat we have had,who would ride these buses unless we had too.
Also as i said last week with green line buses blowing a cloud of black smoke along woodhaven blvd, I saw a few other buses in the 600 series doing the same this week,its time too retire theses buses,they have done there time here,.
Here's a small tip for those of you who find yourselves left with no choice other than to ride a bus with no air-conditioning:
COMPLAIN LOUDLY TO THE BUS DRIVER THAT YOU ARE FEELING ILL DUE TO THE EXTREME HEAT.
We are not allowed to remove a bus from service due to a lack of AC. If you complain that you're feeling ill, the situation then becomes a safety issue, and the TA will replace the bus. Believe me, I'd much rather drive a cool bus than a hot bus.
The next time you're on a bus with no AC, be sure to complain- but don't complain that it's "hot".... complain that you're feeling dizzy, nauseas, and light-headed. You'll see how fast a new ice-cold bus finds it's way to you....
I believe 541 was a Gillig. Gilligs have horrible A/C and often breakdown with the A/C on, so drivers shut it off.
The yard is located at 100-09 Glenwood Road, Brooklyn. It backs up to the Rockaway Parkway Station / Storage Yard of the L (Canarsie) Line. It is really small. Consists of one building with storage space for 4 buses on the east side and 20 or so on the west side. The signs on the side of the building indicate that in addition to Jet Away, its home to a used car dealer and it does DOT inspections.
On the street two motorcoachs (one a Van Hool) were parked. On the east side of the building a MC-9 was parked along with former NYC Bus 1393 (don't know if MTA or Mabstoa). Inside a dirty garage were two or three cars waiting for body work and another motorcoach. On the west side of the building were about 15 school bus mini-vans parked tightly together, probably being gutted out for parts. There were two or three full size school buses, one of which said Jet Away Transport. In this lot was former NYC bus 1322 along with one or two airporter type vans.
Slope Back # 52 was not there. I went into the shop and asked a mechanic who was doing body work on a van if the bus was around. He said no, that it was out at Belmont and they only bring it in for cleaning or maintenance. (Note to Big Al, maybe when you saw the bus at Springfield / Linden, the driver was taking it home with him for the night ? )
The Van Hool belongs to N. & I. Tours a Russian owned charter service that parks there. They own 2 Van Hools and l LAG. Jet Away themselves own 1 MC9, l Setra & 1 LAG, in addition to their transit & school buses.
The slopeback is always sitting up at Belmont now. You just have to know where to find it. The permit on the windshield is expired, so that's probably why they don't take it out on public streets anymore. When I saw it on the streets, it was still legal and I saw it pretty regularly. I think it was going back to Brooklyn, from what the operator was telling me. BIG AL
passed this place yesterday and saw 1393 a flatbush original and 1322 with a yukon sticker still attached. from the looks of 1393 it doesnt appear this bus will ever be on the road again. perhaps they bought these buses for parts only. you can get a good picture from glenwood road.
According to today's Newsday, Ms. Ruby Walker was killed at 5:35 AM this past Monday morning when she crashed her car into the back of a LI Bus that was stopped at Coolidge Drive and Hempstead Tpke in East Meadow.
Apparently the bus was parked since his brake lights were out and she never saw the bus. The driver, Richard Scalfani, was issued tickets for not having brake lights and because his left taillight was out.
There were no passengers since he had not started his route. Investigators didn't know why he had stopped. Coolidge Drive is opposite Eisenhower Park between the Nassau Coliseum and Nassau Medical Center... There is a Friendly's on the S/E Corner and a 24-hour, non-chain, convenience store on the S/W corner....Wonder if he stopped for coffee. No detail as to what route # or the bus # given in the article.
A bus driver is not allowed to stop for a cup of coffee? And there was a tailight out, a common problem. There are alot of LI Buses out there with faulty tailights. But of course the bus driver is scapegoated, he always is.
It's not his fault LI Bus has faulty and dangerous equipment on the road. I've seen buses that have broken down with no lights on because it was there so long the battery went dead.
If you're a bus driver for LI Bus, NYCT, or anyone else make sure the lights function properly or do not take the bus. Refuse to drive it and demand another bus!
As this case points out, the driver will be blamed for faulty equipment while the operator (LI Bus) gets away with running it.
Typical MTA and Nassau county (police) bull****. Just goes to show you 75% of the time they find the driver at fault, even though drivers usually are not.
If the Newsday report is accurate, it seems that he was parked in a bus stop with his lights off. I had a real estate broker client in the building just to the east of Friendly's on Hempstead Turnpike. IIRC there is no parking allowed on that stretch of Hempstead Turnpike, it is supposed to be a three lane road. It seems to me that the driver was PARKED in the stop not STOPPED for passengers, therefore he bears some responsibility for the accident. The fact that the deceased may have been going to fast for the foggy or fell asleep at the wheel and didn't see the bus does not exonerate her at all.
Hello, it is indeed the driver's responibility. A pre-trip check of all equipment is a LICENSING requirement for a CDL.
-Hank
M34
On 34TH Street
34 people got hurt
One witness is 34
BM34X
It took my computer 34 seconds to boot this post up. BIG AL
M34
On 34TH Street
34 people got hurt
One witness is 34
BM34x
For you training bus gurus, another i discoverd today is 533 out of stengel.
Another: 4916 out of QV.
Q46#4904Gary
Are these dedicated training buses (markings, etc)?
Wayne
Usually the training buses have a special valve under the front seats opposite the operators seat where a brake can be attached for the training supervisor to hook up a hand brake. Pretty much every depot has a couple of these buses and special instructions are given to the night shifters to place these buses close to the front doors and not to bury them so that it can go out early in the morning.
Posted by R36Gary on Thu Aug 3 00:06:40 2000, in response to Training Bus, posted by Mike M on Wed Aug 2 23:31:13 2000
Another: 4916 out of QV.
We also have bus # 8357 which is a training bus.
Here at MTA in los Angeles the Training Busses run out of Division.9 El Monte Training division and feature large decals on the side and front windshiled "TRAINING BUS NO PASSENGERS" in both English and Spanish with no real modifications mecanically.
Ryder
saturday will mark the 5th anniversary of this website, www.nycsubway.org...
i'd be interested in hearing david pirmann's recollection of how he came to create this website, and how it developed over the last 5 years... happy moments and the sad ones... visions for the next 5 years...
and then memories of the people who have used the information on this website as well as those of us who post here on subtalk and bustalk... what was your first memory of coming here?... what makes you come back here?
anything you have to say, will be a welcome form of giving thanks to david having created and maintained this very special place on the web..
FIRST - On the BusTalk side it has gotten me RESPECT from some of those TA guys in the back rooms. There have been many times that something posted here was the first I had heard of it. When I called the farebox vendor or the TA they usually admitted that what I heard was true and they were about to tell me about it "officially".
I think there have been a few times where they weren't, but did because I found out about it.
Myself and a friend at LI Bus have the reputation of being the two pains in the ass "users" ... I'm proud of that ... Thanks Dave !
SECOND - I'm a nosie kind of guy & have been so all my life. I want to touch it and find out how it works & why ... doesn't mean that I'm a BusBuff although I seem to becoming one of those too. I'm also interested in knowing what customers, BusBuffs & collegues think of the system ... service provided, frequency, scope, etc. This has been a very good place to learn all of this ... Thanks Dave !
THIRD - I've made some new friends who share my interests. I consider many here amoung them (Gary, Wayne, Trevor, DaShawn, Sid, Freddy ... although I don't see you as often as my new SubTalk friends) This has enriched my life, but not made my wife the happiest person in the World :-( ... Thanks Dave !
Mr t
First, I would like to thank Mr Dave Pirmann for making this site. It's the only opportunity to get the Inside Information about buses and subways worldwide. :)
Second, I've also met some new friends here that share my common interest and I don't feel ashamed or embarrased to talk about it. (Thurston, Kevin, DaShawn, Jason, Jorge, Trevor, Sid, Steve) I thank these talents for giving me an opportunity to join an awesome transit site about buses and subways: www.transitworld.org.
Finally, I consider myself a "D Generation X" Transit Buff (the next generation I know D Generation X is for a group of Wrestlers on the WWF but I love wrestling too) ;) I'm in the up and coming age and bigger and better things are to come everyday. Dave, I thank you very much for nycsubway.org. Keep up the great work!
R36Gary
www.transitworld.org
First, I would like to thank Mr Dave Pirmann for making this site. It's the only opportunity to get the Inside Information about buses and subways worldwide. :)
Second, I've also met some new friends here that share my common interest and I don't feel ashamed or embarrased to talk about it. (Thurston, Kevin, DaShawn, Jason, Jorge, Trevor, Mike, Sid, Steve) I thank these talents for giving me an opportunity to join an awesome transit site about buses and subways: www.transitworld.org.
Finally, I consider myself a "D Generation X" Transit Buff (the next generation I know D Generation X is for a group of Wrestlers on the WWF but I love wrestling too) ;) I'm in the up and coming age and bigger and better things are to come everyday. Dave, I thank you very much for nycsubway.org. Keep up the great work!
R36Gary
www.transitworld.org
i was thinking of transcribing the posts on this topic and putting together a booklet of them to distribute to people who join us on saturday, or send through the mail to anyone who wants it...
if you wouldn't want your post duplicated, e-mail me or note it on the post
if a lot of people think this is a stupid idea, i won't do it....
Sunday And holliday bus service Starts on August 20, This will be the first sunday bus service in the City Of Phoenix since 1967.
Euclid Avenue A Train
I have a question about these 2 buses. I know that 653 was formely known as CTC M5 and 654 was formely known as CTC M6 but according to Trevor Logan's roster it says that they're TMC Buses. According to this pic GL 653
it says that the bus is a GMC. Can anybody clarify this because I just updated transitworld and I placed the bus according to Trevor's roster as a 1988 TMC.
Q60#616Gary
www.transitworld.org
Green Lines Bus #653
Q60#616Gary
According to the official roster I received from DOT it states that this bus is a 1988 but i have my doubts also, I just got a Production list for RTSs, I'm gonna go over it and get back to you.
Trevor Logan
They are really, 1987 GMC RTS-06 Methanols now turned diesel!
DOT is such airheads!
Trevor Logan
Casey Stengal Depot will again have RTS's. This due to bus shortages, equipment failures, more runs added and Q76 extension to the Target Mall at 20th Avenue. Some of these RTS's are currently being stored at the College Point Annex yard. Stengal Maint. did not recieve any spare parts for the buses, that is why they are not in service yet.
Maybe that's why those RTS' are at the Stengel Annex Depot. Maybe those are the ones that they will put into service.
Any idea how many?
Flx7595
NY Orions are really bad, no offense. I just don't like them, but what is so fantasic about RTSs?
It will be nice once again for that part of Queens to be served by RTS's. Stengal used to be one of the best NYCT depots before they got all the Orions.
At least the depot emblem will be right finally ( but least send some new RTS's(9300's and up) CS already had the old stuff
I think Stengel should get the remaining 1985 RTS buses currently in Fresh Pond that are being replaced by RTS buses from Gleason.
The RTS buses that are parked in Casey Stengel's "annex" yard are b/o (bad order) buses from Jamaica. Buses from nearly every model year in Jamaica are represented there--ironically except for the 1982's. Most of the buses are out of service due to engine troubles. They are:
3497(exp), 4217, 4350, 4574, 4575, 4597(which has been out since early February), 8974, 9347(exp), 9536, 5162 and 5165.
Again, these buses are JAM buses with a variety of "ailments" and are NOT assigned to Casey Stengel. As far as I know, CS is remaining an all Orion depot.
Didn't I hear the washes at CS were only equipped for Orions too?
Orion bus washes would make it quite difficult for CS to become an RTS depot again. :)
Spent my lunch hour at Main Street Flushing today. Found a parking spot close that had 1/2 hour on the meter, so it only cost me 25 for the hour. Visited the subway station; K-B's, where I found a Blue Meanie and The Yellow Submarine (anybody know what I'm talking about ?); then finished up at Mickie D's all on the same block ! Returned to my convertable with 7 minutes to spare, oh what a power lunch !
Saw LI Bus Orion CGN V #191 & 144 ... both had their windows closed & seemed to be operating OK ... were they an exception or the rule ?
Mr t__:^)
Blue Meanie? Isn't he a wrestler?
No he stole that name from someone else ... a fictional little person.
Mr t__:^)
Beatle memorablia from the Yellow Submarine animated movie and album. As the other poster points out the Blue Meanie was also the name of the late wrestler Owen Hart who died on a WWF telecast when he fell out of the rafters.
Yes, but the Blue Meanie was also FIRST from The Yellow Submarine movie.
Mr t__:^)
Have there been any changes in routings in the Queens Area,Flushing or Jamaica
,especially since Flushing changed routing patterns with many of the TA Buses
Saw Orion 654 on the N24 to Jamaica at Roosevelt Field and all the windows were open.
Saw Orion CNG bus 132 getting towed down Stewart avenue in Garden city at around 5pm. There must've been another breakdown!
And man those MTA tow trucks are HUGE.
In case you haven't seen it, heypaul has orchestrated a celebration of this site's anniversity starting at his place in the early afternoon Saturday ... all are welcome ... details on "Upcoming Events".
The 3/4 Ton Crew will be acting a bouncers, so you have to be nice.
Mr t__:^)
I had just got off a Bx12 bus from Orchard Beach (I was there to photograph a cow!) at the Pelham Bay Park 6 train station to take a QBx1 bus into Flushing. A QBx1 bus pulled into a bus stop. I asked if it was going to Flushing. The driver said no. Then, a second QBx1 bus stopped in front of the first bus. Its sign said it was going to Flushing, but when I asked, the driver said no. A third QBx1 pulled up to a bus stop behind the first bus, again having a sign saying it was going to Flushing, and I said "Let me guess: this is the bus to Flushing." Yup.
If so many QBx1 buses serve only Co-op City and the Pelham Bay Park 6 train station, why are they called "QBx1" along with the QBx1 buses that do go into Queens? I think that it would be less confusing if Bronx-only QBx1 buses were called Bx60-something, and the Co-op City-Flushing bus be called QBx1. I think that would be less confusing.
I've a better idea. Eliminate the damn cut backs and send ALL buses through. There is a need for it.
[I've a better idea. Eliminate the damn cut backs and send ALL buses through. There is a need for it.]
I totally agree.
[I've a better idea. Eliminate the damn cut backs and send ALL buses through. There is a need for it.]
I totally agree.
My friend in our Transportation department can understand the trouble you had. You obviously already know that some of the buses assigned to QBX-1 stay in the Bronx. We have 18 different Destination Sign codes for this route. I'm told that our "regulars" don't have too much of a problem, so maybe it was the subtle wording that you didn't notice. Anyhow, "unofficially" we are sorry for your inconvience.
If you would like a "official" reply, write, call or e-mail us at "info@qsbus.com". All correspondence receives a writen reply.
I believe you can ask a question or complain to any of the seven "private" bus companies, however I think we're the only one with a e-mail address ... yes, yes I know our Web site isn't the best around, but we're working on that.
Disclaimer: I don't work for the MTA, TA, or nycDOT, and I am speaking for myself here.
Mr t__:^)
First off, the L4 will be restarted in September according to my driver this morning. That means you won't have to listen to me rant and rave about how the N3 is ridiculous and the L4 would have been worthwhile to revive. Buses for the L4 might come from the N3 if it is deemed to be a failure (I finally saw a passenger on that ridiculous thing at Friendship Heights).
I also found out that the 5 most nerve racking routes for WMATA drivers are the 32, 34, 36, B2, and X2. The 30 is a popular route for the pick.
Southeast division is closing for renovation (or is already closed, couldn't tell).
THere are 3 silver buses according to the B/O. I've only seen one (9343). Anyone else see some others? This is WMATA, not Ride-On. Ride-On has 2.
Also, he had the interior sign turned off because he claimed it annoyed him so much (we had Orion 4349). They can't make a rule that they have to have it on if works, can they? While often I know where I am going, some people may not and having the sign turned off is not a great thing for those passengers.
RE: Silver Anniversary Buses. I've only seen 9343 also.
Wayne
I didn't know there were 3 silver buses, and I also didn't know that Ride-On had silver buses too. Also, you know that when the Green Line is finished, more metro bus routes will be discontinued. Like the Q2 which ran from silver spring to shady grove. The C6 had been replaced with Ride-On's route 10 from Twinbrook to, um, wherever it goes. Also, what is wrong with the N3? What's so special about the L4?
How are you gonna discontinue the Q2 which is a major line in Montgomery County, first off it's the only Metrobus to run up Viers Mill Road all the way to Route 355 aka Rockville Pike to the Rockville Metro Station. Beyond that, the Q2 goes up to Shady Grove Metro Station and Montgomery College from the Silver Spring/Wheaton Area. Taking the Red Line all the way around takes you a hour or more.
Secondly, the only other buses that run up Viers Mill are the C4 which left turns at Randolph Road and Ride-On's 48 to Parkland Drive. that leaves people stranded from Parkland Drive to Rockville Metro via Viers Mill, I DON'T BELIEVE IT!
On top of that what does the Green Line have anything to do with Montgomery County, the Green doesn't even scrap Montgomery County, it does PG (Prince Georges's) County. Q2 also doesn't scrap PG county, so it makes no since!
Trevor Logan
I'm sorry, I was just giving an example. But how do you think the metrorail lines became so popular. before metrorail there were buses serving every area. But then they had to discontinue routes. Besides, they had discontinued the L4 for a while.
I'm sorry, I was just giving an example. But how do you think the metrorail lines became so popular. before metrorail there were buses serving every area. But then they had to discontinue routes. Besides, they had discontinued the L4 for a while. And wasn't there a Y bus serving Silver Spring? What happened to that? Also, I'm not talking about the Green Line affecting the Q2, I am talking about other metrobus routes, like the C buses and such that serve that area and may already be serving branch avenue and such. I already know that Q2 doesn't even touch PG county, I'm not that simple. Besides, my father was the one who told me they are disconinuing the Q2, and how long does the bus actually take to go to Shady Grove anyway?
Does your father hold a position at WMATA? Metro had on their web site the list of proposed changes and the only things that will happen is routes serving Southeast will be rerouted to new stations. There will be some new routes and some discontinued ones (91 or 93 will be gone among others).
As for the L4, when it was discontinued, Conneticut Avenue service was cut in half and the reroute to Adams-Morgan is a pain to go on and it means you can't get to places on that part of Conneticut Avenue easily (its a walk from 18th Street or transfer to the 42). Personally, I hate having no L4. The N3 is a pointless route and its mission can be solved without an additional route. Simply charge $2.00 for boarding and a 90 cent surcharge alighting the N7 in Maryland. The N7 then is local in DC and does the purpose of 2 routes in 1. Also, hardly anyone rides the N3. While the bus driver was unclear as to weather the N3's buses would create the L4, he indicated that the situation would be evaluated.
No, he doesn't, but he lives in the area and it might've been on the news. I have to admit, the only routes I know really well is the K6 and Z8, although I have ridden the 70. But if the N7 does the purpose of 2 routes, won't they have to use articulateds, or would it just be right for a 40ft bus? Also, you actually talk to the bus driver about the different routes?
I've heard that when funding becomes available, the C4 will run past midnight 7 days a week and to 2AM on Fridays and Saturdays. That would make that an almost 24hr. a day service. Also the C2 would be extended past 10 PM. I remember the days when the C's used to start around 6AM and end at 8PM with no Sunday service, so this would be great.
The N7 used to use artics when it was the old N9. Right now they used 40ft. buses because I don't think anyone really rides it. People in the Montgomery Mall area fought hard to keep that route, so Metro obliged, but I don't know what kind of ridership it gets. It used to be a faster route as the N9, going up the Whithurst Frwy from K st. then to Canal, to 495, rather than the route the N7 follows now, which offers no benefit and doesn't need an "Express" to it becuase it takes forever to get up Mass Ave. Just a money making ploy by WMATA.
I also wish more buses went from Md. or VA into DC. The subway is nice, but it would also be nice to have a bus alternative. They need some artics in VA as well. The Ikarus ones that are on the DC/MD routes were also supposed to be used on the 16 iine in VA, but they got diverted for some dumb reason.
I used to live right on the C2 and C4 routes. They ran pretty late to me, or at least maybe the C4 did, because i would be able to hear the buses go by as I was in bed. Also, why is funding need to run a bus route? All you need to do is just assign the buses available to a route, right?
The C2 and C4 only run to about 9. That's too early for those that have to work late and take the metro home to meet the bus. I think most buses should run to when the metro closes. What's the use of having a subway system that strands everyone at the stations at night? It forces people to have to arrange rides, take expensive cabs home or not use transit altogether.
Funding is always needed to cover operating expesnes incurred for running service. You need to pay for the drivers, for the fuel, everything that makes that bus run costs money. Plus, being that the bus runs between two counties, each one must pay a subsidy to cover it, which causes problems because it affects the whole region as far as who pays for what.
I used to live in Langley Park back in '96 and the C2 and C4 run OK for me to get to the train station (PG Plaza). But after 9pm, I would have to take the bus out of Tacoma Station up New hampshire Avenue (I forgot the route) or take the 15/16 Ride-On out of Silver Spring (which on went as far as Safeway) I think it's great that they are FINALLY going to extend service, even on Sundays.
Question: Does Ride-On still have those 30 foot Orions that bounce up and down whenever it goes over a bump?
B61 Leonard
Yeah, I always took the 16 from Silver Spring at night, or you can take the 15/17/18. I was right by Langly Park. The bus from Tacoma that goes up New Hampshire Ave may either be the 16 or another bus from Tacoma is the 18. Also, Ride-On still has those 30ft Orions, but they aren't being used that much anymore-that is, if you mean the ones they got in the early 90's (I sat in the drivers seat of one when they were brand new). that is good that they are extending service on the C's though.
I lived right by Langley Park too, off of University Blvd. and Riggs Road, behind he old Hechinger's store. I moved out of that area about 4 years ago. The 16 is the one that now goes up New Hampshire Ave., then makes a right on 410. I used to drive the University of Maryland Shuttle though there a lot before I graduated from Maryland six years ago. I usually drove Adelphi South, but occasionally, i would drive the Silver Spring route to maintain my eligibility to drive 40 foot buses. If you didn't drive one within a certain period, you were restricted to driving only 30 ft. buses. This is why not every Shuttle Um driver could drive the 40 footers. Half of them were so bad, I wouldn't trust them behind the wheel of a car.
Did the 16 always go to Tacoma? when I rode that route it only went to Langly Park. But I know for a fact that it never went up New Hampshire Ave to go to Tacoma a few years ago. Where did it use to go?
I don't think it used to go to Takoma, but maybe it did. When it left Langley Park, it would make a right on university, then a left on New Hampshire, then it made another left before Piney Branch Road. Then it wound its way to Piney Branch, where it made another left, crossed over University and headed up towards Flower Ave. From there it headed to Silver Spring, but I don't remember if it stopped at Takoma first.
Yeah, I know the 16 route very well, I rode it dozens of times before. I just didn't know if it ever went to Tocoma.
The reason its so slow now is that they've practically made it into a local bus. Also, I don't think an artic would be the solution since the N7 only has most seats taken as it is now, adding the N3 riders shouldn't make that big of a difference.
Since when did the Q2 get extended from Belmont Park?
Q2 METRO BUS WASHINGTON DC
NOT Q2 NYCMTA! You Got Jokes!
Trevor
I originally thought you guys were talking about the NYCTA Q2 also until I realized you guys were referring to another state. Glad I didn't leave a post. (or maybe I just did) BIG AL
That was about what the recent question was. You didn't see a answer because it's not a short answer, but this should get you started:
Way back in the days of horses & dirt roads Omnibus companies started to form to carry folk around. Then came a bunch of trolley companies.
- The biggest in Brooklyn was the BRT, which became BMT. They also tryed their skills at operating a bus company for a while.
- In Manhattan & the Bornx TARS (3rd Ave Rail Sys) immerged as #1, but is gone now except for a few trolleys preserved at museums (Shoreline at Branford and Seashore at Kennebunkport have examples).
- In Queens there were many of these trolley companies. The largest at one time was NY & Queens County Railways. That company is now the Queens Surface Corp. bus company. Jamaica Bus is another of these former trolley companies. North Shore was a trolley company that went out of business, then came back under new ownership as a bus company. When it went under it became the TA's Queens division.
The point is that it's a long story. If you want to learn more check out the following:
Command Bus Co, Inc.
Green Bus Lines, Inc.
Jamaica Buses, Inc.
Liberty Lines Express, Inc.
New York Bus Service
The MTA/TA
Queens Surface Corp.
cTc/Triboro Coach Corp.
Opps lets try the MTA site again:
The MTA
There was also Metropolitan Street Railways/NY Railways in Manhattan, which was bigger than TARS.
The BRT, NYRS and TARS were all formed by the consolidation of smaller companies. Queens didn't have such a consolidation.
In Staten Island, there was one company, but I don't know if it started as one or if it was also consolidated.
When the Mayor/City started toward "bus-substitution" of all the trolley lines he/they created "Zones" for companies to bid on. Some of the existing trolley companies were allowed to keep their trolley routes & bus-substitute them.
However, as I said before, it's a bit more complicated then that, e.g. 5th Ave Coach had a route in Queens, as did TASR.
BTW, You'll find some history on the Web sites I provided in my previous post.
Mr t__:^)
Good afternoon,
I Was just informed that there is an UPDATED listing for the NYC DOT Bus Co.
Does anyone have this listing??
Thank you
Steve
I was thinking of visiting several shopping malls in New Jersey and Westchester county.
Which malls are easiest to get to by rail or bus transit and how?
Some malls I'm interested in visiting are the Westchester, Garden State Plaza, and the Mall at Short Hills.
Have you ever been to Newport Centre? (yes, they spell it that way, the damn Anglophiles) It's right above the PATH Pavonia Avenue/Newport station and right next to the future HBLR station there.
I did some researching and Newport Centre looks pretty easy to get to, with taking PATH. All other malls require long bus trips and I'm not a fan of that. Also malls such as Short Hills and Garden State Plaza are situated by major highways but far from any transit hubs.
I take a HOB train to Pavonia Newport and the mall is around there. And it aint far from NYC, which is good.
Also I hear Short Hills and Garden State Plaza like to keep buses far from the mall, which is different from the policy of LI Malls. Roosevelt Field, Sunrise, and Walt Whitman have bus stops fairly close to a mall entrance. Now if only we could get a Nassau HUB light rail line built!
Short Hills and Garden State Plaza are accessable by Transit Buses,,that stop right outside the Mall
I have used buses,to get to Short Hills #62
[Roosevelt Field, Sunrise, and Walt Whitman have bus stops fairly close to a mall entrance....]
Roosevelt Field has moved the bus stop area several times in the past few years, each time farther from anyplace meaningful, on the theory that "if you don't bring a car, then you can't make big purchases, and thus you're not a source of profits, and thus we don't want you."
Broadway Mall even evicted the buses, claiming that bus riders were not coming to the mall itself but merely used the stop as a transfer point. After the buses were cut back to the Hicksville LIRR (about a mile away), stores started closing due to the loss of both customers and workers!!
AND we all remember the tragedy up in the Buffalo area, in which a young lady was killed crossing a busy road because her public bus was not allowed on mall grounds (even though charter buses were allowed). Let's pray that such a thing never happens here.
Well I know RF moved the bus stop (temporarily) to a empty parking field a few years ago during the renovation, which was horrible, you had to walk across Ring Road and dodge the cars.
The setup today aint great, but it not too bad. The new location is only about a 2 to 3 minute walk to the mall entrance which is in line with many of the parking spaces that you can only get on weekends (because it's crowded). Also they have a marked walkway to the bus stop and sidewalk so you don't have to walk in the middle of traffic.
Still I would've liked to have seen a bus stop right near a main entrance but as we all know on LI the car is king.
Walt Whitman mall also had the bus stop far away from a mall entrance until recently putting the bus stop right in front of the mall entrance. I hope that lasts.
What Broadway Mall did is the absolute worst though. Having no stop within the mall is surely a shame, and it has hurt the malls business.
There is a plan for Taubman Co. to build a new upscale mall in Syosset, which has very strong opposition. No bus lines go near the site of the old Cerro wire co., and if the mall does open (buses or not) I think it will be the final nail in the coffin for the embattled Broadway Mall. Yeah the movies and Ikea do well but the rest of the mall itself has little to offer and probably won't last too long when the new mall opens because mainstream clients like Gap move to a bigger, newer location in the new Syosset mall (when it happens). Also Macy's is rumored to be an anchor in the new mall, which certainly does a much bigger business than Stern's or JC Penney.
Shopping malls with today's busy anchors like Macy's and Bloomingdale's, plus designer stores like Acrocombie and Fitch, Banana Republic, Nine West, Steve Madden,etc do very well, hence the always busy Roosevelt Field shopping mall.
What about the new "Source" mall near Eisenhower Park attached to the old Fortunoff?
The only mall I've been to by bus is Roosevelt Field (in Long Island at least).
The Source has several bus stops around the center, on Old Country road, but not in the center itself.
The Source mall is much less busy than Roosevelt Field and has had many stores pull out due to the low traffic inside the mall.
Fortunoff still does well but the mall itself is not doing too well.
Easy to get to ,right nr the Train Station and you can also visit the Bloomingdales Mall area,,while you are in the area
Steve
FDNY
from Bronxville,westchester county
If you are interested in a bit of a ride and going way out into the country, Shortline has been running to Woodbury Common from PABT and Ridgewood. It may sound far away, but remember, it has been reported that people come all the way from Japan to visit it, some going straight from the airport to Woodbury Common before visiting anything alse in the NYC area.
This past week for the first time I observed express buses from all 3 TA Queens depots with large warning stickers on the rear. The sticker reads WARNING WIDE RIGHT TURNS. When were these applied? Is it a test being conducted just in Queens? Are they only affixed to express buses? Hopefully the TA will affix these stickers to all it's buses. It is a marked improvement over the barely noticeable WARNING DO NOT PASS ON RIGHT stickers that currently adorns the rest of the fleet.
I see it on the local buses also. I think all MTA Buses will use this sticker in the near future.
Q46#8357Gary
I had mailed the host of this site an invitation to receive this map, however I have not yet heard from him. Since the webmaster has updated the site since then, I assume he's not interested in this map, therefore as I said earlier, I am offering it to you now.
If you would like this map, please email me your name and address. I will send the map free of charge.
There are 3 of you who have received a package I sent, as well as one other of you who have received the operators manuals. To be fair, please don't ask for this map. Let someone else have it.
First come, first served.
QV :-)
In general, all New York City Transit subways and buses provide service only between points located within the City of New York. The one notable exception is that the Q5 and Q85 buses (according to the Sept. 1999 Queens bus map) serve the Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream, Nassau County. Did NYCT need to get permission from Nassau County or the Village of Valley Stream to do this? Did its charter (or whatever the basic document describing its purpose is called) need to be modified by the Legislature, or the MTA board, to authorize it?
The one other case I am aware of in which NYCT buses make stops that are (just barely) outside the city limits would be the eastbound Q36, which makes stops on the southern side of Jericho Turnpike/Jamaica Ave., where the city line runs down the center of that street. I guess it could also be argued that the bus is running "on" the city line and not "over" it, but really it is in Nassau.
There are no comparable situations involving Bronx buses carrying passengers into Westchester. The Bx7 does cross into Yonkers (after discharging its passengers) to turn around, but no passengers get back on until it is back within the city limits. I'm pretty sure all other Bronx buses remain within city limits at all times, though some come within a few feet of the line. Then there are the express buses from Staten Island that go to Manhattan by way of New Jersey, but they do not pick up or discharge any passengers there.
Of course, Westchester (Bee Line) and Nassau (LI Bus) buses cross into the city all the time, but that is another story.
One of the Union Turnpike busses actually run and stop in Lake Success to serve LI Jewish Medical Center via Lakeville Road.
One of the Bronx busses has its first southbound stop in the City of Mount Vernon.
Q46 and Bx16 respectively.........
B46M Limited
No, NYCT did not NEED to get permission from anybody in order to extend service to Green Acres Mall.
The "charter" you refer to is the enabling legislation that created the MTA in the 1960's. By law, all MTA operating agencies (including NYCT and L.I.Bus) are empowered to operate ANYWHERE within the 12-county MTA region, as long as the streets in question are physically able to handle bus traffic. However, as a courtesy, NYCT does seek endorsement from neighboring municipalities and has, in fact, refrained from route extensions that met with opposition from town officials.
[For example, the long-standing proposal to run the Q79 to the Floral Park LIRR station was greatly opposed by village leaders, and thus didn't happen. Another proposal several years ago to extend the Bx16/Bx34 to downtown Mount Vernon was actually endorsed by both Westchester County DOT and the mayor of Mount Vernon, but opposed by the M.V. Comptroller.]
In fact, L.I.Bus, under its official name of Metropolitan SUBURBAN Bus Authority, was originally envisioned as the transit carrier for the entire non-NYC part of the MTA region, with funding provided by each county - compare with PACE, serving suburban Chicago. However, only Nassau County bought into MSBA, and now insists on reneging on its part of the deal.
There is also a proposal someplace to extend the Q4 to go into Elmont (Nassau County). I believe the only problem is they can not find a good turn around for the bus. I believe they wanted it to run all the way up Linden blvd to where Central ave begins. BIG AL
There was also once a proposal to extend the Q46 continuing along Union Tpke into Nassau County to the Lake Success Shopping Center.
Way back when, it seemed that bus manufacturers were proud of their products and put their names prominently on the front of the vehicle. "Mack", "MAN", "GM" and "Flxible" come to mind.
Nowadays when I am on the street and see a slightly different shaped bus come into view I can look all over the outside of the vehicle without the slightest hint of what company produced it. Even on the inside there is usually only a small manufacturer's ID plate, sometimes at floor level and sometimes near the roof, which identifies the manufacturer. This seems to be true on both transit busses and tour busses.
Why have the manufacturers become so shy? When did this trend to hide the manufacturer's identity begin?
In NYCT's case, the practice of putting the manufacturer's nameplate on the front of the bus ended ca. 1981. NYCT's first RTS buses came with "GMC" emblazoned across the front. However, GM Truck & Coach charged a small fee for the lettering, and NYCT didn't want to pay, so that was the end of that. The lettering was subsequently removed from those buses and hasn't been seen since.
David
The Orion VI is marked with the Orion logo prominently in the front.
All of them? Some of the Orion VIs were originally destined for NJ Transit, but NJT changed its "mind" and NYCT got 'em.
David
That's a little bit of a different story. The bus also is marked for NY Power Authorit and a few other companies that had a hand in developing the technology for the vehicle. I'm sure fleet buyers from other cities come to NY to see the bus, with the thought of purchaseing them for their fleets.
-Hank
6350-6353 were originally NJT buses, so they came with the Orion plates.
>>> GM Truck & Coach charged a small fee for the lettering <<<
David;
Is that being penny wise and pound foolish? Good marketing practice would be to give a slight discount for having the logo on the front of the bus.
Tom
I always thought so, but I never worked for GM Truck & Coach :-)
David
I know on the MCI MC-9's it was that if you didn't want the MCI name on the front of the coach, you paid through the nose for a blank front name plate.
RDChilds
Actually, on some "rebel" bus lines in queens, they do have the manufacturer name on the front.
That's the...
running on...
's
answers.
In most cases, it isn't a matter of the manufacturer being "bashful" but rather the purchasing agency specifying that the names NOT be on the vehicles.
SEPTA, down in Philadelphia, was so adamant about this that Volvo had to remove the diagonal brace on the "grille" which was considered the Volvo trademark.
Outside the bus industry, United Parcel Service is also extremely adamant about removing vehicle manufacturers' logos from their equipment. They have a load of Ford Aerostar panel vans out here in southern California, and there is a blank spot in the indentations where the Ford logos should be. (Some, somehow, got through without having the logos removed and are floating around.) In fact, UPS is SO finicky about this logo thing, that they were upset that their Boeing 757's came with Pratt & Whitney stickers on the engine cowlings and removed them all.
I guess the feeling is that by leaving the manufacturers' logos on equipment is tantamount to providing them with free advertising.
SEPTA buses not having manufacturer logos is a City of Philadelphia ordinance, which I'm thinking is from way back in the PRT/PTC days.
Peace,
Big D
>>> SEPTA buses not having manufacturer logos is a City of Philadelphia ordinance <<<
This brings up the question of why a city would pass such an ordnance. One guess would be that if a city wanted to buy foreign busses, removing the logos might forestall complaints by the "buy American" crowd. Any better ideas regarding the reasoning of forbidding logos by local ordinance?
Tom
Some of the Neoplan SEPTA buses have Neoplan located in the back of the interior of the bus.
It's not just SEPTA buses that don't have logos (other than the Neoplan logos basman mentioned), all public service vehicles aren't supposed to have them, I don't know how close it's followed other than with SEPTA though.
Peace,
Big D
If there is a city ordinance prohibiting public transit vehicles from having manufacturer's logos on them, then why do the Kawasaki LRV's have their nameplates on them (they are located between the front door and the front truck well (so much for the "Buy American" thing).
On SEPTA's fleet of Kawasaki LRVs I never saw a Kawasaki nameplate on any of them.
Then you aren't looking. EVERY Kawasaki LRV has a cast nameplate, in fact the Suburban Kawasaki's have two, one in back of each front door.
Also, PTC had loads of GMC flatbottoms and fishbowls, every one of which had its GM emblem on the front. On the flatbottoms the GM emblem was integral with the chrome wings on each side.
Interesting. I guess next time I'm at 69th street I should look closely at the trollies there. Are the logos located near the bottom of the front door?
They're mounted on the skirt behind the front doors. It states "KAWASAKI 1981"
And the plural of trolley is trolleys. Anytime Y is preceeded by a vowel (as in trolley and day) you add the S for the plural.
Alright, thanks for the spelling lesson. and thanks for telling me where it is.
I don't know why the ordinace doesn't affect the trolleys, The whole ordinance thing is something I read a long time ago. Maybe it doesn't affect rail vehicles at all-many of the Almond Joys had "Designed and built by Budd" on the interior of the cab side end doors, and the B-IV's have Kawasaki plate on their end doors. I'm not sure if they still have them but the LRV's had Kawasaki plates in the interior as well, above the front "Stop Requested" sign.
Peace,
Big D
Ok, that just shows how much I notice on these SEPTA vehicles. I'll look for that sign if they still hve it on the M-3s when I go to the transit museum.
The mini buses on SEPTA have the Ford logo on them.
Actually when SEPTA ordered the Flxible fishbowl-lool-alikes, the "Flxible" nameplate was on the back of the bus under the exhaust stack, so Flxible was not so bashful.
The H200LF buses from Gillig that are run for Hertz have the world Gillig written on the front.
I've received quite a bit of email regarding the 1975 map, as well as those Orion Articulated "BusMarks", and the "Insiders Guides". While I had only one 1975 map, I do have the rest of the items, including a few newsletters and other misc. TA items (maps, schedules, etc).
If anyone would like a packet of those items, just email me with your name and mailing address. But please, don't inquire about the '75 map.... it's gone!
Thanks,
QV
Steve Lowenthal
216 North Fulton Av
Fleetwood NY 10552
Thank you
Steve
Um, I don't mean to be rude, but, Orion doesn't manufactor articulated buses, so why are they selling articulated bookmarks?
They're not Orion bookmarks; that was an error. They're New Flyer D60 bookmarks that were recently made by (or at least for) NYC Transit.
David
Oh, I see. Where do you get them? I would like one.
Call the Bus Customer Relations Center: 1-800-NYCT-BUS.
David
I mentioned the "Orion" as the articulated bus in error. Being that I only drive the RTS, any "square bus" looks like an Orion to me! Remember, you guys know more about these buses than I do... hey, I just drive 'em. :-)
The only time I drive an Orion is during my yearly evaluation. Just like the TA to eavluate you on your performance operating a bus you drive once a year....
Anyway, for those who've requested the items, I'll get those out to you this weekend (a few days later than anticipated).
QV
[... I only drive the RTS, any "square bus" looks like an Orion to me! ...]
Well excuse me, but I think Orion's are cool not square !
(sorry about that, I've been hanging around heypaul too long)
Mr t__:^)
I was listening to Howard Stern this morning promoiting some oddball bus with glass side panes floating thru Manhattan for some oddity of an art projec.
If anyone got some pictures of that one email me directley for a trade if you want to.
Advise please,
Ryder
I don't think it was quite an "art project" from what they were saying on Howard Stern's radio program at 4: 30 a.m. PDT this morning. From what I was hearing, they had a bunch of gals performing sex acts on that bus.....and they were making jokes that Mayour Rudy wouldn't so much care about that, but worry about how it caused traffic tieups!!
Now if I could only remember the website they mentioned. It was something like "?????bus.com" (I remember it being five letters with "bus" in it....)
its voyerbus.com and turns out to be a former GLI MC9 and even shows pics of it in Hound colors.
Ryder
Okay, thanks.....now that you mention that URL, it sounded like "Boyerbus" the way they said it on the radio. Will have to check it out.....
Due to the way the other guy mentioned it, I think it fit the description of the voeyuer bus perfectly. That's funny, having a voyeur bus driving around.
As many of you know, New York Bus Service was the last operator of GM Fishbowls in regular service in the New York Metro Area. I recall seeing one in service just two weeks ago on the Morris Park run.
I'm sorry to say that on a trip past the NYBS garage yesterday - I didn't see a single one in the lot.
Did I miss something? Was there a discussion about a planned retirement of NYBS Fishbowls? Or did this just happen over the weekend?
Well, on 2nd avenue every afternoon I see about 4 or 5 of them in service, so no, I really don't think they're gone.
This morning, I took 2217 (or that is what my brother told me because I now forget) on the 30 and you couldn't request a stop on this bus from the left side (the cord was broken) and the wheelchair lift didn't work either. Suprisingly, the interior sign did work.
Oh my gosh, that was an Orion? At first I thought you were talking about one of the New Looks or the Flxible Metros.
It was an Orion. I had it again this afternoon and the stop request worked. The lift wasn't needed for anyone.
There will be a book signing by the author of the book METROCARD MANIA, FUN WITH USED METROCARDS, on Saturday, September 23 at 1:00 at the TRANSIT MUSEUM in GRAND CENTRAL.
Command Bus Company
357-360 GMC RTS04 1985
364-365
368-369
373-374
380
421-428 MCI Classic 1988
430
432-434
436-449
451=452
454=455
458
460-465
467
469
470
472-481
499 MCI Classic 1989
4903-4917 TMC RTS 06 1994 CNG Buses
4919-4926
4928-4931
4932-4975 Orion .05.501 1998 CNG Buses
All are City Owned Buses leased from the NYCDOT
Peak Requirements 110
Average Age 7.7
GREEN BUS LINES
221-238 GMC RTS 04 1985
240-268
649-650
655-659
636-639 GMC RTS 04 1985
641-647
270-292 GMC RTS 04 1986
602-608 GMC RTS 06 1986
610-635
640
648
651-654
701-702 MCI CLASSIC 1989
705-712 MCI Classic 1989
713-716 MCI Classic 1989
1143-1182 TMC RTS 06 1994
5501-5550 Orion 05.501 1997
719-722 Orion 05.501 1999
All are City Owned Buses leased from NYCDOT
Peak Requirement 200
average Age 10.2
JAMAICA BUSES.INC
501-511 GMC RTS-04 1985
530
512-515 GMC RTS 04 1986
517-523
525-529
581-583
551-567 GMC RTS 06 1986
3701
571=580 GMC RTS 06 1986
601-607 MCI Classic 1989
608 MCI Classic 1989
3830-3865 TMC RTS06 1994
All are ............,
Peak Requirements 88
Average Fleet Age 11.1
LIBERTY LINES EXPRESS
3001=3076 MCI Classic 1988
3101-3110 MCI Classic 1989
All Are ..........,
Peak Requirements 75
Average Age 11.9
NEW YORK BUS SERVICE
1481-1505 GM OF CANADA 8H 5307A 1982
1600-1602 GM OF CANADA Classic 1984
1604-1686 MCI Classic 1988
1688-1697
1700-1709 MCI Classic 1989
1711-1716 MCI Classic 1989
All City Owned Buses.......,,
Peak Requirements 123
Average age 12.8
QUEENS SURFACE CORPORATION
900-954 MCI Classic 1988
294-389 TMC RTS 06 1994
500-516 Orion 05.501 1998 CNG
534-563
567
396-499 Orion 05.501 1999 CNG
517-533 Orion 05.501 1999 CNG
564-566
568-581
All are City Owned Buses leased from the NYCDOT
Peak Requirement 282
Average Age 4.0
TRIBORO COACH CORPORATION
640 GMC RTS 04 1985
642
644-647
649-659
661-664
666-684
685 GMC RTS 04 1986
687-691
693-715
716-723 GMC RTS 04 1986
725-740
761-763
764-767 MCI CLASSIC 1989
769-779
781-782
784-787
789
790
792-794
2050-2073 (CNG) TMC RTS 06 1994
1183=1184 TMC RTS 06 1994
2801-2829
2136 TMC RTS 06 1994 METHANOL
2140
2142
2144
2147
3000-3050 ORION 05.501 1998 CNG
3052-3057
3051 ORION 05.501 1999 CNG
3058-3071
Inactive Buses (Pending Meth to Diesel Convsersion)
2137-2139 TMC RTS 06 1994
2141
2143
2145
All are City ...........,
Peak Requirement 210
Average Age 8.4
..
Why does QSC have the youngest average fleet if everyone's equipment is owned by NYC ?
Also why is GBL's fleet in such disrepair considering they have a younger fleet than Jamaica, Liberty and NYBS
To answer the question about GBL, it's poor preventative maintenance, it's a sad case!
QSC on the other hand has great maintenance and better operators, BUT QSC wasn't always like that, at one time they had shaby maintenance too, but they bounced back. JBL & LLE has decent maintenance. BUT by far NYBS has the best maintenance in the NYCDOT fleet, their MCI Classics are the best I've seen in any fleet.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Thank you for the kind words Trevor, we'll have to keep trying harder to maintain your high impression of us.
Re: Why do we have the youngers fleet ... this is a repeat of a answer I've given before ... Triboro was scheduled to get a significant number of the buses from the Orion CNG order just completed. The problem was that their depot hadn't yet been made explosion proof (so they could be parked inside), they didn't have any more space outside to park them & their CNG filling station hadn't been upgraded yet to handle the increased fleet size. So, QSC got their buses. Why hadn't all these things been done then ... politics.
BTW, our new depot was designed for a diesel until our former President asked a question at a nycDOT meeting several years ago. As a direct result of his question the depot was re-designed. It was before the City ordered this big group of CNGs, so the City would have re-designed our depot anyway, they just got started on it a little early.
Disclaimer: I don't work for the MTA, TA or nycDOT & I'm not a official spokesperson for QSC.
Mr t__:^)
Hey, does anyone know what that Novabus RTS is called (the specific model name), the one that has a different front than the GMC and TMC RTSs?
The model you are referring to is the:
NovaBUS RTS-06 WFD (Wide Front Door) nee TMC RTS-08!
Trevor Logan
In case anyone is interested, 5034...... the Cnadian GM artic is finally in California. I will get some pics scanned and send them to whoever wants them.
Is there stil to be a Gleason depot tour on 8/12? What of #3758? I hear it will be disappearing, perhaps for repairs, and may not be there.
Today, while I was on the Q77 going along Hillside ave, I saw what looked like a new CNG Orion on L.I. bus. The number was 288. I didn't notice what line it was operating on. What grabbed my attention was that EVERY light was L.E.D. including the side amber turn signal lights. Now heres what really grabbed my attention. This bus had the red L.E.D. arrow in the driver's side mirror glass, like what you see on the SUV's. Inside, it had the same padded seats and new look lights as on the newest NYCTA RTS buses. The only thing that was weird, was that the exaust pipe wasn't chromed. It looked like it was painted white. It didn't have the chrome wheels either. Can anybody, maybe John, confirm if this was indeed a new bus or something that was redone. I don't remember hearing anything lately about L.I. getting in more new buses unless they are trying to replace the Gilligs. BIG AL
The bus you saw was the indeed the newest Orion at L.I.Bus.
Indeed it is a new Orion at LI Bus. Also, take a look at the windows. You'll notice they are different. They look like they hinge inward at the top of the window a la 4567 that runs out of Jamaica Depot.
This evening I saw an Orion on the N21 that I have never seen before.
It looked like a standard 1994 Orion except that the back where the engine is "jutts out" a bit. Like the bus is pregnant or something. It looked rather new but with a 581 number I doubt it is.
Are these new, reconditioned - or just appearing on the N21 line for the first time?
It was 587- I saw her in Flushing today. Did she look like she was repainted?
R36Gary
I have seen 581 operating out of the RVC depot on the N4 too. It sounds horrible, and last time I saw it, in June on the N32, it had all windows open.
Well I got to ride 581 today, which I never rode before (only saw). Very ironic after talking about it today. It was on the N23 to Mineola. Got on, the bus had satisfactory A/C, but shook alot at idle. But that was just a statement to the power of that bus. The engine was loud but very fast, by far the fastest of any diesel Orion at LI Bus.
This bus really flew! Also it had a bump in the middle of the rear seats like on NYCT buses.
I also saw 587 today. I thought RVC had these two buses. Did they trade them to Mitchell for more CNG's?
The engines on 581 and 587 sound totally different than the other LI Bus diesel Orions. But I peeked into the back of 581 and it had a detroit diesel engine. I guess perhaps it's a more powerful version than the others.
Also saw 626 with an exhaust pipe white, and 648 running with no A/C.
Its a DD Series 50 engine that LIBus has retrofitted in buses 579, 581 and 587. Those buses were assigned to RVC, but have been since transferred (I believe this week) to Mitchell Field in exchange for some CNG's (101-125) going to RVC.
I hope that helps...
I saw 126 on the N25 today. Saw another odditity today, Orion 588 had a part of it's rear door painted dark red.
Also saw CNG 142 and 536(Gillig) with all windows open and no A/C.
I had the fortune of riding 142 later on, after the rains came and it was cool, so fortunately we didn't need A/C than anyway.
I still can't figure out why LI Bus has so many problems running with A/C. Is it breaking down more or are they just trying to save money on gas?
I just thought the fact that the engine compartment "Sticks out" was unusual.
Thanks,
flx7595
Bus 288 is a new bus, I've seen it on several occasions (on N6, N28) but have never got to ride on one yet. It resembles the Orion CNG's QS has, with a large easy to read LED sign, and it sounds like it is now using a similar engine to the QS Orions, not the crappy Cummins L10G.
This will be the first of a new delivery of Orion CNG's to LI Bus, which will come after they finish testing the new model.
I saw 288 again today. The exaust pipe is chrome, but it doesn't look shiney like on the new Orions I've seen at G.B.L. and Q.S. Also, the bus does have the chrome rims on it. I thought it didn't. I noticed the windows looked different also, but they do not look like the ones on 4567 in Jamaica depot. Also, it looks like the bus has 2 rear amber L.E.D. turn signal lights on both sides of the bus in the back, something I have never seen before on any regular city bus. If I catch up to it at the 165th st.terminal on my layover, I'll ask the operator his/her opinion of the vehicle. BIG AL
The windows on LIBus 288 are those that are found on the Orions that Bee-Line operates(400 series)
I saw Orion diesel 626 with a white tailpipe today.
I am trying to figure out what depot Flxible #7061 was assigned to back in 1975 to win a small contest we have going in NYCT. Can anybody who knows about the NYCT buses from the 1970's help me out here? I would really appreciate it and will let you know if I win the contest also. Thanks. BIG AL
if you give me 50% of what you win, i'll tell you whatever you want to hear...
try ulmer park. buses 7070-7089 were assigned to flatbush. i know that for a fact as i drove them there. im not sure about 7061 but up sounds good. im aware of that contest in the leader.
The contest says if I win I get to dance the "Tchotchke-Cha-Cha", whatever that is. Personally, you can have it. I only want another gold apple button sent to me for winning. I've requested and received 2 of them already in addition to the other prizes for winning this contest in the past, twice..
BIG AL
First I was thinking 126th Street, but I'd guess it was at Fresh Pond. Too bad it's not a MABSTOA bus - as I'd more than likely know which depot it was assigned to.
Wayne
Wayne
7061 didn't arrive at Fresh Pond until the early 1980's, during the Grumman days. During 1975, 7061 was at another Brooklyn depot, Flatbush maybe but I'm not sure.
I can tell you it wasn't in flushing. In the 1970's Flushing only had Flxible # 7175-7204, 7590-7604 and #7645 for about 3 months or so.
At least - from what I can remember.
I do recall in the late 1970's that Fresh Pond got #7107 and #7104 but that's all I know
Are you sure Fresh Pond had 7104 and 7107? I never saw these buses running out of Fresh Pond. Perhaps they were there for only a short time. Fresh Pond had 7000-7007, 7009-7040, 7042-7098, 7102, 7112, 7120, 7123, 7134-7165, 7173, 7203, 7300-7305, 7311, 7312, 7340-7361.
B53Rich:
I'm sure about that. I believe it was May 1978 or 1979. Both buses were on the B58 (now Q58) out of Fresh Pond. I know it was May because there was an ad for Ringling Bros Barnum & Bailey Circus on it. Don't ask me why I remember that. I just do.
Didn't Flushing (now CS) have the 7203? I thought they had all the flxibles from 7175-7204? Although come to think of it, I rarely saw that bus. But I'll take your word for it. There was a lot of movement of buses during that time.
Is there a list anywhere of what buses were in what depot's from that time period? I'd love to see it (My youth, what can I say!)
I wish there were more pictures from that era too, although the ones on this site are unbelievable. I don't remember Flushing from 1971 but seeing some of the buses that ran in Flushing (including an early picture of the 4444 in green - before it was painted blue in the late 1970's really is cool).
Thanks
Flx7595
Thanks for the info Flx7595 and any more would be appreciated. I would also like to get a list of buses by depot from that era but yes there was a lot of movement during that time. What I have is from my own personal observations mostly from the B53(now Q54). Perhaps 7104 and 7107 never made it out on the B53 as probably many more. 7203 was a Flushing bus but that particular one was transferred to FP during the same time the MaBSTOA 7300's were. As for other buses that didnt make it on other routes from FP, for some reason the 8000 series winged buses never ran on the B(Q)55.
The winged 8000 series did run on the B(Q)55 in Sept 1981 I caught 8120 by Victory Field heading Ridgewood bound.
Check this out, a while ago I read somewhere that Nova BUS was using the following scheme for the different versions of the RTS:
RT_FDxx
Where RT=Rapid Transit Series
NFD=Narrow Front Door (of course WFD=Wide Front Door)
1st x=length (# of modules 8=40', 7=35' etc.)
2nd x=width (2=102" 6=96")
BUT on the Nova BUS RTS builders plates I've seen, they were still the old T_0-_06 (like T70606 or T80206). Has the new replaced the old or are they both being used?
Peace,
Big D
I have a source that sends me the "inside info" from NovaBus, i.e. the builder production lists with all the models, VIN numbers of each individual bus, completion date, delivery date, acceptance date, etc. The lists show the model numbers as what you mentioned (i.e. RTWFD82, etc. -- but the buses all show up with the plate stamped with the same model designation system as has been used since 1977 at GMC and TMC (i.e. T80206, etc.)
Some of the orders in the production lists I've received even have some strange models such as "T706N" (but the group in question there showed up -- Norwalk, California -- at T70606's.
Methinks whoever is assigning models to the production list doesn't have a sense of uniformity -- or more than one personis doing it while the regular person is on vacation!!
The newer uglier ront ends like Long Beach has are called "The Shovelnose" if anyone cares.
Ryder
Today I paced one of (Montgomery County, MD) Ride-On's new 40 foot Orion V's (#5706) southbound on I-270 at 69 MPH.
Wayne
Ride-On has always been fast, even when I was living down there for a while, I remember Ride-On being pretty light on it's feet and flying!
Trevor
www.transitalk.com
I paced Suffolk Transit's new Orion 9913 about a month ago on Vets H'way which was doing around 65 mph. Later after waiting for the traffic light at the LIE, 9913's acceleration was very quick as well.
I don't know how fast a bus is actually capable of operating, however while on the X27/X25 out of Gleason, I reached mid 60s driving the 1800s. Here at QV, some of the 3900 series buses would top 70 MPH before becoming too dangerous to handle (no governers on many of those, for whatever reason).
I'm sure the new 93's and 49's we have would top those speeds if they hadn't installed speed-governers. I had one yesterday that topped-out on the GCP at 42MPH. 42!?!?!
Impeding traffic in the name of "safety", here at the TA. A bus on an open expressway travelling at 42 MPH is a hazzard to itself, and every other vehicle attempting to pass (while offering to me their "special finger).
most of the mci buses at yukon top out at 58-60mph. yesterday i had the good fortune of driving 1868. this bus got up to 70mph with no problems. any bus doing 42 on an expressway should be reported to maintenance as defective.
That's the NYCT(A) way. If it doesn't make sense they do it.
Wayne
What is the regulation time a vehicle is allowed to idle legally?
Is this a federal reg, state reg, or a local reg?
i think NYC regs is no more than 3 minutes above 40 degrees fahrenheit.
if youre in residential area, shut it down.
commercial area, its a tossup.
No it's not a tossup, it's move it or get a ticket. 6th Ave & 35th is a bad spot for us, i.e. if the bus arrives a few minutes early so it can leave on schedule the police will make us go around & around the block until it time to start the run. Wouldn't a parked bus with the engine OFF be better ?
Mr t__:^)
Well, as far as the Federal part goes... Don't idle your engine in front od 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Some funky cops come up to you and tell you to turn it off.
That's the...
running on...
's
answers.
Vehicles are no longer allowed on Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the White House.
I've been riding on 5505 all week on the Q60 and I've heard that bus along with 5501-5504 and 5506-5508 have sensors to monitor its drivers from going off the route and timing wise. Well, today 5505's radio was broken-sensor too. Green Lines were unable to reach this bus in case of rerouting or whatnot. Why have this bus on the road if the radio is out? And haven't heard info about sensors on QSC, TCC or Command Buses. Will they be placed in those buses too?
Q60#5501Gary
Is that a Sensor,,or AVL (Auto Vehicle Locator),,???
It was something talked about here, but has more to do with is the bus in the depot somewhere or is it in service, i.e. we spend a lot of effort counting noses several times a day before the drivers get assigned.
Re: why wasn't a radio onboard ... well a radio on every bus is nice, but not required for the driver to do his/her job. Sometimes you have a lot in the shop getting fixed. BTW, I take advantage of them myself if I need to work on a bus (as a result of a customers call when they arrive at work). My shop is right where they pull in, so frequently I'll have them called to drop it off at my door ... hey if I make it easy for my guys they'll do more work ! I can also find out right away if the farebox is still acting up. Sometimes I wish I didn't ask as the driver will wish me Merry Christmas :-(
Mr t
Why doesn't Long Island have an alternative to the overcrowded LIRR?
It sure would be nice if LIB had an express bus type of service going into Manhattan.
New Jersey has Xpress buses, so does NYC and Staten Island. Why not Long Island?
In the late 70's Alert Coach (Division of Bauman Buses) tried a route that started at the Park & Ride at Exit 49 of the LIE went to the Walt Whitman Mall and then express into downtown Flushing (Main & Roosevelt)where one could take the # 7. The route was expanded to start at Exit 68 stopping at all Park & Rides and then continuing up to WWM.
It failed miserably. I happened to read a "canary carpet" and found out about it. There was little advertising. Although I didn't have to go into NYC every day, many times I was the only passenger. Part of the problem was that after arriving in Flushing you still had to get on a subway. The service was only once an hour, so if there was a slight delay on the subway you could have a long wait for the next bus. Also Alert had a funky collection of buses. 2 MCI-8's, a Prevost Bombadier, a PD 4905 and a PD 4104. Only the two MCI's had the same paint job so you never knew what bus to look for and flag down in Flushing.
At the time there was talk among the drivers that he (Bauman) could never get the "rights" to go into NYC. They claimed the LIRR was afraid of losing business. Eventually he substituted vans but that failed miserably.
Part of the problem is that many people will never get out of their cars because they value the independence and not having to live their life around a schedule. Had Alert gone all the way into NYC perhaps it would have been different. Recently Suffolk County is providing subsidized bus service (via Harran Coachways) from several park & ride lots and stopping in an industrial park in Hauppage and then proceeding down the 110 corridor. The ride costs $1.50 and brand new Prevost motorcoachs are provided and still the buses run empty.
Short of legally banning cars (ignoring the constitutional question) I doubt any sort of express bus would work
Is that the 28th amendment?
A well organized motorcade being necessary to the security of free trade, the right to drive cars shall not be infringed.
About 5 years ago the now defunct Muller Tours of Brooklyn tried operating an express commuter service between the 5 Towns and mid-town Manhattan. Even though he carried a homogenious crowd (all Orthodox Jews), and provided convenient schedules by picking up in front of synagogues at the conclusion of morning services, he failed miserably. Because of the traffic conditions, he could not compete with the speed of the LIRR.
Express bus service from Long Island into the city is not really viable as travel times in the best of circumstances would be excessive.
This situation has been tested in the past and the winner is almost always the FASTER transportation. Differences in amenities between buses and trains don't make that all much difference. Travel time is king.
For example - back in the 1960's and up through 1985, Walters Transit offered commuter express service from Brewster (Putnam County) to 41 Street & 7th Avenue with intermediate stops throughout Putnam County and into Northern Westchester with about 20 miles of non-stop service from Elmsford into midtown.
The bus service failed by 1985 for two reasons:
* Steadilly increasing highway traffic caused the bus schedule to become quite a bit slower over time and less reliable than the train.
* Electrification of the Harlem Division made the train a much faster and more dependable alternative to the bus. And so Walters failed and bailed.
The solution to Long Island's commuter problems lies not in highway travel - but in rail travel - probably new light rail combined with existing heavey rail - and all this in the future dependent on budget, funding, taxes, public pressure, etc...
Well I guess so. Long Island has worse traffic than NJ.
A good start to solving the problems would be installing light rail lines in the HUB area as well as other congested areas. The LRT line would connect to shopping areas, employment centers, and the LIRR.
Also the LIRR would go to GCT.
I'd like to see light rail here on the north shore where the traffic is terrible, but there would be a ton of opposition as most people in this area oppose everything except new housing.
A good start to solving the problems would be installing light rail lines in the HUB area as well as other congested areas. The LRT line would connect to shopping areas, employment centers, and the LIRR.
How do you expect it to help? It's just another boondoggle, worse than many other things.
If we want to turn the hub into a futuristic mall, then build a PRT system.
Spotted at Meadowland Garage today at around 11:55am, was NJ Transit's new 2000 MCI 102-D3SS (Stainless Steel).
Yes Children, Stainless Steel,
This bus is completely different from all other NJT Schemes and MCIs. This bus had stainless steel siding, just like the MTAs, A swooshing Blue-Purple-Orange Stripe instead of the normal up and down strips, NJT Transit written in HUGE letter in the center of the bus, Luminator MEGA MAX 3000 LED Destination Sign, Wheelchair Lift, Chromed out Wheels, and the number was 7501!
It has begun, the order is on it's way, GET YOUR EAGLE AE-20 Cruiser, MCI MC-9A Cruiser, MCI MC-9B Cruiser, and that one MCI 96-A3 Cruiser (if you can get it), because just like the redbirds, those buses days are seriously numbered!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Trevor, thanks for the info. I can't wait to see it or one of the others that will soon accompany it. Is the "swooshing Blue-Purple-Orange Stripe" like the one they have on the 30 foot RTS's?
No, it's a completely brand new scheme, nothing I've ever seen before on a NJT bus.
Trevor
www.transitalk.com
what routes are the Eagle long-distance coaches for NJT Transit run on???
Thanks.
You can ride the eagles on these routes
67
68
128
133
135
137
139
308
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Also, occasionally you can catch one in the morning rush hour on the 321 from Vince Lombardi Park N' Ride. (You can also catch the 7000 CNG buses there.) They must come in on the 67 or 68, and then dead-head to Vince Lombardi for a trip into the PA Bus Terminal.
I hope somebody out there smnaps a few pics of the buses.
Will be done, with me being a NJ employee, this bus will cross my depot very soon on it pilot tour.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I suspect there's a good chance this bus will show up at the Hoboken Festival on Septmeber 16th.
VERY GOOD CHANCE!!!!!! I'll keep my ears open at the depot!
Trevor
www.transitalk.com
3758 is going to be at Jackie Gleason on the 12th. I got this info from the head boss him self. So don't worry 3785 is not going any were.
Robert
Last week, I reported 3806 and 15XX in service out of Western. Today from my New Carrolton Orange Line train on I-66, I saw another Fishbowl but couldn't see if it was in service or not or the unit number. It does mean that we have 3 fishbowls in service in the DC Area.
I think there're many more than that ... reports of the model's death have been greatly exaggerated. I still see them occasionally around Western Division, although not as frequently as the more ubiquitous Flxible New Looks.
I suspect that some divisions keep them hanging around their yards for supplementary service when needed, and that they're not all earmarked for the junkyard. As recently as a year ago, they had one regularly scheduled for the E2/E3/E4 runs.
Chris
It is regularly scheduled on either the 30 or N3 thru tomorrow. I'm not sure about after that.
Last Saturday (8/5) I was visiting family in the DC metro area. Driving south on US 1, I spotted a fishbowl in the yard of the Metrobus garage in Alexandria (don't know name of that division).
That depot is Four Mile Run. I saw WMATA 6428 about 2 weeks ago. I saw one this week also but I wasn't close enough to get the fleet number.
Wayne
How many lavatory equipped buses does NJT have in their fleet ? Are any of the new buses that are on order coming through with rest rooms? I assume that they are needed on the Port Authority to Cape May run which is 180 miles.
As of right now, there is about 25 MCI MC-9B Cruisers that had lavatories added in when the MCI MC9s with lavatories were retired. Yes in this coming order about 30 are coming with bathrooms.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I'm not sure if this a WMATA coach, but I saw a picture of it in a Bus World magazine early last year. It said the bus operated in Washington DC and it was also in that Howard Stern movie "Private Parts."
Anyway, I'd like to know if this bus is still operating.
WMATA 6607 is a GM fishbowl TDH-5304
Wayne
When someone has sprinted to your bus and is knocking on the door and:
1) You're the last bus up Third Avenue for the evening. Missing you would entail a half mile walk to Sixth Avenue in humid weather. and:
2) You're still at the curb side, at the designated bus stop. and:
3) You can't pull out into traffic without reversing first because there is another bus in front of you still boarding passengers. and:
4) You have time to wave at said person who is knocking at the door. and:
5) You have time to tell said person to walk to Sixth Avenue.
It Means:
1) The person is trying to board your bus. The person knocking knows you're the last bus for the evening. and:
2) The person isn't asking you to do something unreasonable. Granted if you were in a traffic lane, you have an obligation in the name of safety to deny boarding that person. and:
3) You're not going anywhere just yet, so the thirty seconds it takes to open the doors and board that person knocking would not be a factor in getting to your desination that much sooner. and:
4) The energy you spent waving could have been more efficiently utlized opening the door. and:
5) You've created the drive in that person to go out of his way to tell you these things, since once again, the energy you've spent speaking could have been more efficiently utilized opening the door.
Given all of the above, was asking to get on the bus an unreasonable request?
Hi, It's me Mr t smiling and waving at you too :-)
Seriously why not "Express Yourself" by calling 718-445-3100 or write us (snail-mail or e-mail info@qsbus.com). All written requests receive a written reply. Since you have the bus and driver badge, if he/she was doing something wrong they'll be talked to ... althought they won't tell you that in our "official" reply.
The un-official answer is that the cops in Manhattan like to hassle the drivers for the slightest little thing, like picking someone up at other then a official bus stop (because we're effecting traffic flow and that's more important, to them, then service to the riding public)
Yesterday you may have seen that they ticket the bus that arrives early for it's scheduled trip, even if we shut the motor off, so we have to drive around the block again, and again, and again.
Thanks for riding with us & hope that your future trips are less eventful.
Mr t
does anybody know why the glenn glenn roster hasnt been updated since may 24th
he only sends out the update rosters via e-mail to certain people now. To see a up to date roster Click Here
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
5225 and 8419 operate in ENY now.
B14#5225Mike
As does 4696 and 4889 is operating out of FP
4889: probably the first 4800 to run out of FP. I'm missing alot since no update from Glenn. Thanks to Trevor's roster, I was able to find out about some of those JG 46/4700's now at FP.
Buses 4889-4891 are now in FP, as is 4659, 4661, 4682-4684, 4691, 4696, 4703-4704, 4711 and 4719. Thats just off the top of my head. There may be a couple of more but I don't have my roster handy.
Look for an update to come soon on Trevor's page.
That was so nicely done, they way everything is so categorized (year, etc). The only thing, the white on blue background(looks like selected text) is a bit harder to read)
Friday was my last day of employment as charter manager for Royal Lines. Monday, I begin work in the same capacity for FAME TOURS at a substantial increase in salary. I will be in charge of 12 vehicles consisting of 7 Prevost HP-45s, 3 Irizars, l Van Hool 2040, and l Neoplan mini-coach. Our garage is on Imlay St. near the Brooklyn side of the Battery Tunnel. Check out our website at www. fametours.com.
I wish you all the best at your new company.
Peace & Blessings and well wishing from the staff at TransiTALK
Best Regards,
Trevor Logan, Clayton Parker, Mike Fioriello, Antonio Merced, Jovan Williams, Alan Jones, Avery Carter, DaQuane Cary, Janay Key
Best of luck on your new job
This bus is different from the rest of the 8400's:
1. It looks more like a 4900 RTS than a 8400. The ehxaust pipe is on top.
2. This bus operates out of ENY. I saw earlier this week on the B83 @ Livonia and Pennsylvania. I did not know for sure if it was 8419 but then I saw it again on the B60 yesterday @ Pitkin and Rockaway. It has the ENY logo and all.
3. It look like it had some type of service done.....
B83#8419Mike
I was going to bring this up last week, but I wasn't sure how true it was.
The Department of Buses has started to replace the Detroit Deisel 6V-92 engines on its 1990 & 1993 RTS's with DDSeries 50 engines, which will include rebuilt RVR731 trannies as well. This project will cover buses 8000-8564 (buses 8565-8566 already have the Series 50, and 8567 has a Cummins CNG engine). They are also going to replace the engines on the 1993 Orion V buses. The five Stengel Orions with Cummins engines (295-297, 299-300), which have spent most of their lives out of service, will be included in this project. This could be a little more difficult on the Orions, because as many of you know, the Series 50 requires the middle rear seat to be removed. If not, then they will have to put an extension to the rear engine door, a la LI Bus's 579, 581 and 587. I'm not sure if 317 and 581-610 will have their Cummins engines replaced--I hope so.
FLA's 8419 was the first bus done and is being tested out of ENY. Bus 8425 was towed into ENY Base Shop last week and will likely be the second bus to be repowered.
That's funny. They just did all those rebuilds (7000's), and they put in 6V-92's because they didn't feel like going through the trouble of reconfiguring the system to a roof exhaust (even though the buses had been stripped down to the frames). Do they plan now to redo those too?
I'm not sure if the Remans are going to be included in the repowering. I just know of the 1990-93 TMC's and the 1993 Orions.
Q5Merrick:
Thanks for the info. I was wondering why those middle seats were missing and I figured it had something to do with the engine. And, now I know why that LI buses looked "pregnant". That e-mail explains where those Orions have been (although I have seen 300 on the Q15 a couple of mornings in the last 6 weeks or so. No sign of 295-97, or 299. 298 (which I think also had one of those bad engines) was in service on the q20 or Q44 several weeks ago.
I could be wrong, but I think another 1993 Orion out of Stengel had an engine change because it was missing the middle seat. I think its one of the 200 series (287 or 288 I believe) but I am not sure.
Bus 298 has a 6V-92 and is an odd-ball out of the 295-300 group.
Don't most of NYCT's Orions have no rear middle seat? Most of the CS buses I've been on don't have a rear middle seat.
CS has assigned to it buses 227-232, 255-316. With the exception of 291-294 which were delivered with Series 50 engines, these buses have 6V-92 engines and a center seat in the rear. Stengel buses 505-580, 631-680 and 6120-6141 have no center seat
Buses 227-232, 255-316 sound similar to LI Bus diesel Orions. They don't have a "moan" like the other CS Orions. Do LI Bus diesel Orions
have a 6V-92?
LI Bus Orion V's 579-656 (1991 and 1992 models) were delivered with Detroit Diesel 6V-92 engines. The same engines as the bulk of their 1993 TA counterparts (101-316).
However, since they were delivered, LI Bus' 579, 581 and 587 have had Series 50's installed.
Too bad LI Bus can't get the series 50 put in all their diesel Orions, and remove the center seat. I imagine the TA is getting rid of the 6V-92 engines because series 50 is more reliable and cleaner.
Had 606 on the N21 tonight, stalled out while at Great Neck, didn't start until the third try. Of course after Great Neck, there was no A/C. First time I had a diesel Orion stall out, I notice that there is bell (must be in the older models) that rings while the engine is starting instead of the buzzer.
In the morning I had 609 and that one was running much better.
This project is probably being carried out in order to conform with the tough new diesel emission standards that are about to go into effect. The 1990 & 1993 RTS's were the first buses equipped with a pollution control device. This device was known as a particulate trap oxidizer and was essentially a large filter which filtered particulate matter from the exhaust. The trouble was that this particulate trap was maintenance intensive requiring constant removal and change of the filter. After about a year of use the TA stopped using the particulate trap and has been running the buses without them. This has caused the 1990 & 1993 RTS's to be one of the heaviest polluting buses on the road. They spew more thick black exhaust then even some of the older RTS's. This engine change is long overdue and will benefit the enviroment.
I used to work out of Flatbush back in 1994 and I remember seeing 1 or 2 8400's with the exaust pipe on top. I can't recall, after all these years what the numbers were, but I have a feeling it was probably 8419 so I really don't believe this is anything new that just happened to that bus. Also, if or when they retrofit all those 1990 & 1993's, are they going to look just like the current RTS's in the rear without the corner window and pork chop panels? (referring mainly to the 1990's) Or will this just be a sloppy add on job like the way the slopebacks were retrofitted in other bus companies? BIG AL
No those were 8502 and 8503! 8419 is completely redone!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
It's 8402 and 8403, my bad!
Trevor
If you have seen 8402 and 8403 with a Series 50 engine OR the exhaust up top, it was JUST done. Those buses were not delivered like that. The only 1993 RTS's delivered with the Series 50 engine/vertical exhaust are 8565 and 8566. I've seen both 8402 and 8403 all the time (ever since 8402 was 93502) and they were delivered with 6V-92 engines and particle traps.
No, 8402 and 8403 came in ad 93052 and 93053 and both had verticle exhaust with Detroit Diesel Series 92 engines, before they even hit service they were changed to 8402 and 8403 and had the exhaust moved to the lower body by TMC.
Trevor Logan
I saw 93502 and 93503 while they were sitting in the rear lot at Flatbush depot, before they went into service. I don't recall them having a vertical exhaust though. They definitely had 6V-92 engines though.
I saw 93502 and 93503 while they were sitting in the rear lot at Flatbush depot, before they went into service. I don't recall them having a vertical exhaust though. They definitely had 6V-92 engines.
Saw 8403 today on the B41 @ Boro Hall. It have the slits on the side, but no exhaust on the top.......
B41#8403Mike
All 1993 RTS's have the slits on the right (curb) side of the bus, and none on the driver side.
8565 does have those slits @ the rear of the bus.......
BM34x
8565 was delivered, along with 8566, with the Series 50 engine.
I have a pic of 8566 but it came out kinda far. If I'm not mistaking, Trevor Logan has a pic of 8566 on TransiTalk that you can all check out.
B61#8566Gary
I saw 8565 on the B75 today. It looks like the 8600's RTS out of ENY.......
BM34x
1. Did anbody go?
2. Was it cancelled?
B35#917Mike
Maybe they postponed it to a later date due to the weather.
B61#823Gary
Nope. It happened.
(And BTW, I went).
1. When does limited service on the B6 starts?
2. Is this is a test for it to be work out on other crosstown routes or is it permanent?
B6#5084Mike
B6 Limited service starts on September 10.
Actually, it starts on September 11, the first weekday of the Fall Pick. It will run weekdays only. In answer to SubBus' other question, it's not really a "test" of cross-Brooklyn Limited service, per se. Each route is evaluated on its own.
David
The problem is that most crosstown routes are one lane each way, meaning passing is impossible. The B6 can pass along Flatlands Avenue which has five lanes, or Bay Parkway, which has four.
Yeah but there wont be any limited stops along Bay Pkwy.:( Limited stops are between CI Ave and Rock Pkwy Station.
B6M Limited
another smart idea since ave j and glenwood road are single laned and ave j is notorious for double parkers especially erev shabbos-friday.
I know, I use to take the B6 to HS. I used to get off the D train station on Ave. J. It is a mess out there.
BM34x
I know, I used to take the B6 to HS. I would get off @ the D train station on Ave. J. It is a mess out there.
BM34x
The B35 and B12 can use limited service as well but like you said, these routes travel on streets that are one lane each way..........
B12#4964Mike
The Q24 could be a prime canidate for Ltd.service.Atlantic Ave is 2 or 3 lanes each way .Service can be from Bdwy Jct to Sutphin & Archer.
Yeah, but I do not think there is enough patronage to allow that kind of service. Besides the Q24 makes about a couple of stops along Atlantic anyway. Most of the passengers are going to Jamamica and vice versa to ENY...........
Q24#3316Mike
Going next weekend, and want to know how to have the best chance to catch a fishbowl. Any particular times or certain routes out of certain garages they run out of? (Could be the last time I'll ever ride one --outside of an expensive fan trip!)
I was in D.C. last week on vacation. I saw only a couple of fishbowls. I do not know what line they were on. On Friday, I saw one on Columbia Pike, in Arlington, headed toward D.C.. The bus was at least 25 years old. There are a LOT of Grumman Flxibles still on the road. Very few GM RTS's & quite a few Orion's.
YOu will have the best chance finding the FIshbowls at the Pentagon Metro Station during the rush hours. THose come out of Four Mile Run Garage off of Jefferson Davis Hwy at Glebe Road, the Royal Division off of Royal and Pendelton St. in Alexandria and Arlington Division at Wilson and North Randolph St. You can also try Silver Spring Metro during the rush as well. Those buses come out of Montgomery DIvision off of Rockville Pike and Marinelli Road or the Northern Division on 14th St. NW in DC. I'd stick to the metro stations vs. the garages though.
The RTS' are still running strong at peak hours. If you happen to go to Four Mile Run off peak, go the back of the lot on 15th st. A whole bunch are parked face first against the fence there.
The Flxible Metro are all still running. They range from 1986 to 1994. They are used all the time any time. Flx New Looks are few and far between, though.
Unfortunately, we are inundated with Orions. Blech!
Happy bus hunting
f you ride the K6 during weekdays, you would only see RTSs on that route. The K6 runs from Fort Totten to White Oak. Pure RTSs during weekdays.
The K6 does have lots of RTS, but one evening about 2 weeks ago I saw one of the new Orions on the K6 - I think it was #2127.
Wayne
Yeah, they still run the New Orions. That's how I got to ride one. I think they run those on the weekends.
Early today i was cleaning old jerk that i have kept in the past & i was looking in the box that i found the Article from the new york post about RTS #3324 crashed the wall of Chinese Restaurant. Here is the article & pictures of GMC-RTS #3324 from Old 100th St. Depot back in July 3, 1989.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
David, can you rescan the article. Half didn't show up. Thanks.
Early today i was cleaning old jerk that i have kept in the past & i was looking in the box that i found the Article from the new york post about RTS #3324 crashed the wall of Chinese Restaurant. Here is the of GMC-RTS #3324 from Old 100th St. Depot back in July 3, 1989.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Wasn't that bus fixed -I know that bus was FP then ENY ( since retired also)
Saw the Orion 522 from Stengel and noticed that the LED lights are not green (or blue as some seem to be) but instead a bright orange/yellow. I like it. It's very clear and easy on the eyes.
Is this a test of something new or an upcoming change? Or is it just this one bus?
flx7595
Green Lines 5503 and Command 4961 have the Bailios destination signs. These 3 buses are the only ones in NYC that have this...for now. I hope more buses get these signs they're so much easier to sight.
Q60#5503Gary
I saw GBL 5503, and it appears that the two side signs both give the route. One would plainly say
Q60
and the other would say
Q60 SOUTH JAMAICA
or something like that. I'm not sure of the exact reading, but both side signs do give the route. Would GBL consider moving one of those signs to the back of the bus like NYCB 522 and Command 4961?
GBL's 5500s do not have a rear destination sign. I don't think they'll get 1 either because their front destination signs are as messed up as it is already.
Q60#5501Gary
The other day, I rode 522 on the Q74. There were signs near the controller that said the sign had to be changed manually (instead of via the farebox) and that it was a "test sign." How long is this test supposed to last, and how's it doing? I like the signs and want to see more of them on the buses, especially on those GBL Orions (5500's)whose signs don't always work properly.
Does anyone have the addresses and locations of the bus scrap yards and how to get there Such as:
Carlton Storage Yard
Edgewater Storage Yard
Gershow Scrap Yard
Nimco Scrap Yard
Greatly appreciated. Like to see some of those old buses that I used to ride and maybe snap a pic or two.
Flx7595
Words of CAUTION!
As always these scrapyards are typically not busfan nor camera friendly so watch out.
Beware of your surrondings no matter how jazzed you might be about "OHHHH THAT BUS"
Things to watch out for:
Security cameras.
Dogs.
Fluids leaking from busses. (Wear work boots)
Guns and other weapons pointed at you.
Not to seem prude just friendly warnings as I am the king of sniffing out the LA scrapyards.
Have fun and be safe!
RYDER
Carlton Storage Yard is on Carlton and Atlantic Avenues in Ft Greene/Clinton Hill section of Bklyn......
B45#9041Mike
edgewater storage yard may be reached by driving about a mile straight down bay street from the ferry terminal. make left past the sir trestle or by merit station. this is a nyct facility so no guns or dogs will be found. 3800 series buses predominate and you can get good pictures from edgewater street. s51 bus also passes the facility.
Gershow Recycling is at 71 Peconic Ave. Medford, NY 11763 631-289-6100. IIRC its around Exit 64 of the LIE
I saw a queens surface bus the other day,maybe friday, i believe it was numbered 500,i noticed it had a few seats in the back,they looked like they were hydroitic or something,could someone tell me if they were and if so, why,also i was all set to report on the nassau bus and how i noticed for the past week or so that the windows were closed until friday i saw one of them on with all the windows open,maybe a chance the the bus too cold,or not,you make the call.
The special seats in the back are probally the ones that fold out of the way so that one or two wheel chairs can be strapped in.
Mr t__:^)
Today's NY Times has an article by Randy Kernedy:
"Every Ride's a Audition for Bus Driver's Shtich"
Tony Palombella 48 has been job for 17 years and can be caught doing his routine on the M20. At first I thought heypaul wrote the article.
Mr t__:^)
hey thurston... thanks for mention... from reading the article, it seems like the bus driver often has a difficult room to play... i frequently feel that way at subtalk, where people often want to talk about subways and transit in a serious manner... the reporter, randy kennedy, was the same person who wrote the article on railfans about two weeks ago... here's a link to today's article on the bus driver...
bus driver who enjoys his job
About a month ago the Chesnut St. transit way in Philly was turned back into a public road with a special bus only lane. However people have completely ignored the bus only lane and I was wondering what effect this has had on bus service in centre city Phidelphia.
I have some old pictures that i found well cleaning last week ,i scanned them into my files , i would like to share them with everyone but i dont know how too post them here,could someone help me,Thank you.
Talk to Dave off line he'll get you up to speed.
BTW, Doug the BMT Man scanned in some of my recent photos as JPG files, I got them thru the Sneaker-Net, I've almost finished a write up to go with it (Dave wants a flat file vs. Word or Word Perfect), had the MIS guy here install WinZip so that I can reduce the size of the file, and Dave has told me how to send them to him.
It's my first time at this too, but it realy isn't too hard.
BusTalkers, incl. will be several shots of some of the old coaches at Seashore, so look for them being added to our Field Trip report.
Mr t__:^)
Whos Dave and what is is e-mail address
That's the problem, not all of the newbies know who the cast of characters are here.
Dave Pirmann is our site host. Click around this site & you'll find how to send him a private message.
The goal should be to set your stuff up so that it's easy for him to work with (check the spelling, use file formats that are compatible with his software, etc.) ... "JPG" photos & flat text files are the most generic.
Mr t__:^)
On the way to work today spotted N.Y. Bus Service Fishbowl #1501 sporting the following destination sign: TRAINING BUS NO PASSENGERS.
Logic dictates that if N.Y.B.S. is training their new operators on fishbowls they aren't planning on retiring them just yet.
Good to hear that the Fishbowls are still around. In a recent post, I mentioned that I couldn't spot any on the grounds at NYBS during the weekend. The Fishbowls were not in their usual spots near the South side of the parking lot. In fact, I didn't see a single one.
Let's blame my failing sanity (or eyesight) as the reason I couldn't find those Fishbowls.
The fishbowls are now parked near the north end of the transit bus section of the lot, or were about a month ago.
alive they may well be well is another case. i see 1491 at 23 st and bway with its engine cover up several times recently. triboro coach 722 still painted in red is seen on the gowanus almost daily used by an hasidic group.
Are you sure it's 722 cause I used to ride that "thing" on the Q18 all of the time. I say thing cause it looks beyond horrible but runs ok(the RTS). I think you're talking about 744- that bus is with the Hasidic group.
Q18#2828Gary
If we are talking about an old cTc bus it makes more sense that it is # 744. As I posted recently #743 is now part of NYPD Highway district # 3 on the GCP. Double check with www.omot.org and their production lists. I think 743 & 744 were part of an order that ran from #741 - # 760 and is a T6H-5307A
i will double check. note there are two fishbowls owned by hasidim. one has been painted black and no number visible.
Does anyone knows what happened to the New York Apple Express Buses that used to run out of Brooklyn to Manhattan and if NYCT has taken over it's routes? Thanks
B61 Leonard
NYCT has NOT restored operation
I'm not aware of any company called "New York Apple Bus" - maybe you mean one of the following:
* New York Apple Tours (the red double-decker buses): They're still in operation, with a Brooklyn route that resembles the old B88 Culture Loop route. [Apparently, unsafe buses and unlicensed drivers are no reason to shut a company down.]
* Metro-Apple Express: No, this one is firmly implanted in the history books. NYCDOT is still holding onto the franchises for MAX's routes (BM10, BM11, and BM15).
When did MAX go the way of the dinosaurs?
I saw a sign indicating a stop for one of the routes along Bay Ridge Parkway.
MAX is gone,since about 1993=4 ,if my memory serves me correctly
I'm sorry, it was Metro-Apple Express. I new that it was something- apple. The only thing I remember about them is that they used GMC Fishbowls and New Looks in their fleet. Does anyone rememer why MAX when out of service?
B61 Leonard
I think the also ran a number of Flxibles as well. I've often wondered what happend to this operation.
bankruptcy as far as i recall.
Good afternoon,
I know that M and W operates a Route Called Society Hill ,from Journal Sq
The route runs down to Danforth Av and Route 440,then somehow loops around the Project Area
I need the routing details in this area around the Housing Development.
Can Anyone assist Me
Thank You
Steve
Red and Tan ===formerly TransHudson,formerly Drogin
10 South Blvd
33 Wall St
99 Jersey City PABT
122 Staten Island Richmond Av.Hylan Blvd to Exchange Place/NewPort Mall
144 Arden Av/AKR to Exhange Place/Newport Mall
---------------------------------------
Carefree
22 Bloomfield
55 Bloomfield to PABT
----------------------------------------
Lafeyette and Greenville
Newport Mall to Journal Sq
3 Journal Sq to Merritt St
5 Weehawkin to Journal Sq Lincoln Harbour
6 Weehawkin to Journal Sq Lincoln Harbour
16 Journal Sq to Exchange Place
16 Express
Merritt St to Newport Mall
1 Local Merritt St to Exchange Place
11 Grove St to Pt Jersey Industrial Park
31 Exchange Place to River Road/Hudson St NJT
Bayonne Park and Ride Hudson Bergen LR
----------------------
Broadway
-----------------------
Bergen Av
-----------------------
Central Av
Western Slope to Journal Sq
Gates Av to Journal Sq
Liberty State Park
305 Park and Ride
Hague St to Journal Sq
Liberty State Park /Central RR of NJ
------------------------
Montgomery and Westside
Newport Mall
Exchange Place
Society Hall ---Journal Sq
440 Shopper
-----====--------------
Academy Bus
Willow/Washington Local
Willow Washington to PABT
Payne Webber Shuttle
IKEA Shuttle----NEED INFO
22 Hillside
Boulevard East
------COACH USA-------
O N E Bus
12 Part Time--
Newark Downtown Terminal to Elizabeth
24 Central Av and Park Pl to Elizabeth
44 Tremont
-------------------------------------
South Orange Av
31 Newark Market St/Commerce St to
Devor St Loop
Maplewood Loop
Livingston Mall
I am requesting any information ,corrections,updates ,,Destination Signs on This Routes
Including the NEW Electronic DOT Sign Readings
A question about these companies:
Just how "independent" are they? Don't they receive subsidies (cash and/or buses) from NJT?
I know that Academy Bus does. My brother-in-law drives Route 88 out of Journal Sq, up Kennedy Blvd in Jersey City for Academy and he says that they always use NJT equipment for that route and others as well.
B61 Leonard
Maybe this is obvious to other bus fans, but: Noting the owner & operator designations on the side of the buses is quite interesting. Some of these lines are descendants of jitneys in the 1920's when (similar to what happened on Boulevard East about ten years ago), local politicians discovered that handing out franchises piecemeal brought more support from recipients of the franchises. I can be wrong, but the local Washington Street bus in Hoboken had a group of private operators, perhaps no longer. Originally, I think, each fellow got the right to run one bus, and the starter kept peace.
I think the same is true on Broadway (Bayonne) and Bergen Avenue. In the 1920's, it was "politically correct" to attack Public Service and favor local individuals. Maybe the same spirit inhabits some New Jersey politics in 2000, although parties have changed. NJT "represents" the governor's party, the jitney companies are favored by the local politicians. When the parties are different, then the locals get particularly nasty to (in the past, the trolley PSCT) or nowadays, to NJT. As far as vehicle ownership is concerned, check that the ownership may be NJ DOT in some cases, not NJT. In all this, I stand to be corrected. Thanks.
I still need info on the Academy IKEA Route
If anyone needs Route stuff on a particular operator ,let me know
Thank you
Steve
Many thanks for assembling this excellent list of Independents.
this has been discussed before. today on the gowanus i noted two bus drivers on cell phones. one a nyct operator the other academy. driving 50 mph and talking on a cell phone is very risky. also if nyct sees this the operator will get a well diserved suspension.
Not just that driver but ANY Driver who is driving a bus shall NOT have their cell phone in use unless if they're:
A) On their break and have to make a call.
or
B) If they break down and they have no radio on the bus.
I hate cell phones as it is- if I have to make a phone call, I use the old fashioned method: a pay phone.
R36Gary
HA, try and ENFORCE that one.
In any case, the September issue of Popular Mechanics has a guy surfing the web via satellite from the dash of his car. Can't tell if he's in motion or not, but he's driving (I surf and drive, but not if I'm doing the driving!)
-Hank
Yesterday I heard on the radio that WMATA has reminded it's B/O's that using cell phones while operating their buses is not allowed - and anyone caught will be disciplined and possibly terminated.
Wayne
Just watched the news and saw that LI Bus 134 (not 100% sure of the #)
crashed into a versad of someone's house. The crash occured because the driver was suffering from a heart attack. A fellow bus passenger helped steer the bus from major harm steered it from crashing INTO the house. 20 passengers were injured but the driver died at the local hospital. Our sympathies go out to the driver's family.
R36Gary
www.transitworld.org
From one of the news channels cameras it was DEFINITELY # 154. The driver was reported as being 37 years old. Based on the age, I guess our occasional poster / historian, Joe Saitta is alive and well since I think Joe is a little older. In any event it is a tragedy for the driver and his family.
The bus was a CNG model (not mentioned by any of the reporters) and the tanks were okay. Check the 10 or 11 PM newscasts for further reports or some news websites such as News 12.com etc.
I went to the News 12 website and got the following info. The bus was on the N 54 route on Jerusalem Ave in Bellmore. A passenger Shedrick Lawrence is the hero for trying to control the bus.
The driver David Wiggins of Baldwin died.....RIP David.
If you go to www.NEWS.com. When the screen comes on click on LI. If you have Real Player you can hear the audio portion of the broadcast by reporter Trish Bergen (Billy Joel's new squeeze).
That must've been so scary. I remember hearing about a school bus driver who had a heart attack and the kids steered the bus out of harms way.
Our sympathies go out to the drivers family, and the passengers on the bus who witnessed his tragic death. I do not know many of the LI Bus drivers by name, but I do know them by appearance. If I saw a photo of that bus driver, I probably would know him. This really does hit home.
When I saw the news at 1130 on channel 4, the bus appeared to be 134. When I saw the 600 news on Channel 7, I clearly saw that the bus was 154. Sorry bout the mishap, but a very sad day at LI Bus indeed.
R36Gary
While I was in Maryland I saw the 40ft Ride-On Orions, the old GMC RTSs,every kind of Flxible the WMATA ever had, and WMATA's Orion VIs. For those of you who were looking for Orion VIs, they aren't really on any specific routes. For instance, I saw one in Langly Park on some route, maybe the F8. At PG plaza I saw one on the F4. There are also quite a few at the New Carrolton Metro station-I don't know what route they run there.
Also, I was wondering-why is it that on low floor buses like the Orion VI and the Novabus the engine is located towards the left side of the bus, rather than at the back. I noticed that on the Orions, they had a rear window and the engine was on the left side. Is there a special reason for that?
Also, when I first saw the Orion VI, I thought it looked ugly. Nut that's my opinion.
PS: Orions do have the logo smack dab in the middle of the front of the bus. I know there is this terminal in the city at a metro station-not the pentagon-and the terminal was right on the street. I think the green line serves that stop. Anyway, the last Fishbowl I saw was there.
It's coming down to the wire with the legislation that would force the MTA to operate four new express routes to the South Shore of Staten Island by the end of September. Sources close to the action have said that the Governor may turn it down.
Say you could start two routes on your own, and one of them had to have a level of service equal to the X10. Where would you put the routes and why?
Fire away!
Living on the Island, I'd basically run 3(6?) routes, all originating at AK.
1-From AK, Down Richmond Ave to Hylan Blvd; left onto Page Aveto entrance to NY 440 to the Goethals Bridge via NJ to Midtown and/or Downtown via the x19 route.
2-From AK, down Arthur Kill Rd to Rossville Ave; right on Rossville; left on Woodrow; left on Bloomingdale; right on Arthur Kill; right on South Bridge St to the entrance to NY440. Follow route 1 options.
3-From AK, down Arthur Kill Rd to Hugeunot Ave; right on Huguenot; left on Drumgoole Rd; right on Bloomingdale; left on Amboy; left on Page to NY 440. Follow route 1 options.
-Hank
it should be noted the routes have already been planned and sources at nyct say they can be implemented within a week. of course nyct claims they cant afford it while having the money to change 600 bus engines.
I think that legislation forcing the MTA to provide specific service is bad lawmaking and will eventually hurt S.I. as the other boroughs get the same idea. But that said here are my suggested express routes into -
x30 Midtown) Craig Avenue to Hylan, left on Seguine, to Foster Rd, to Rossville Ave then via WSE and Goethals via NJ to Midtown. Return same via NJ.
x33 Downtown) Craig Avenue to Hylan with last pickup at Richmond Ave, then Hylan, Midland, Capodanno to VZ, Gowanus, BBT then via Church St to Park Place. Return same.
x34 Downtown) Arthur Kill Road, Rossville Ave, to Foster Rd, to Seguine Ave, left on Hylan with last pickup at Richmond Ave, then Hylan, Capodanno, etc to park Place. Return same.
x35 Midtown) Craig Ave, Amboy Rd, Bloomingdale Rd, Winant Ave, Arthur Kill Rd to WSE, Goethals, via NJ to Midtown. Return same.
I hope that NYCT does add routes because then that will mean fewer people driving into New Dorp to catch the buses and parking their crummy old cars all day in front of my house! But adding routes on the south shore will only take buses off the othe S.I. express runs.
Having at one time been a Staten Island resident, I would like to see at least l route operate as a super-express from Tottenville to mid-town via New Jersey by going over the OUTERBRIDGE CROSSING rather than the congested Gotheals Bridge and get on the Turnpike at Exit 10.
not so. nyct has ordered 170 more mci buses with delivery to begin in october. in the meantime 3800 series buses sitting at edgewater yard can be pressed into service. the equipment is there. no routes need to be cut.
Someone had a post on here about the status of WMATA Fishbowl 6607, as they saw it in the Howard Stern movie. I just saw 6607 today on the 22B leaving Seven Corners Shopping Center and sitting at the light at Patrick Henry Dr. and Rte. 50. It was on its way to the Pentagon. It looked to be in great shape and all the windows were closed so the A/c must be working ok. I'm not sure which garage its coming out of. I couldn't see the block letters as I was on 50 at the time. It either is coming out of Four Mile Run or Arlington.
New Flyer D60 buses 5295, 5301-5303 were moved yesterday from Westside Depot to Kingsbridge Depot. The TA has decided that the entire order of 260 artics will go to The Bronx.
Go figure.
It must be those local politicians that dont want the artics on their streets.......
Bx1#5295MikeLimited
I don't think it not the local politcians & those people talk brag too much & alway complain about Artics running in manhattan. The reason is that because Bronx need more Artics. I bet that the next order for 2001 Artics will go to 126th St Depot & MCQ Depot. Remember politcians don't know nothing about buses.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
m23 was supposed to go artic but the people there were vehemently opposed. they have a lot of political clout so you will not see those buses there.
What people where were vehemently opposed to artics on the m23? And what was their objection?
The residents, businesses, and instuitions! These are the people who are constantly in contact with their political people, Community Boards and Planning Boards. In this particular area they are not thrilled with the M23 going articulated and have spoken very loudly against it. What these folks have asked for is expansion of bus service to the extreme west side which includes 12th Avenue/West Street since the old commercial spaces have been converted into apartment spaces. The M23 was to go artics months ago and when you have serious public out cry done via their Politicians and Community/Planning boards, they get shot down very quickly and quietly. I should also point out that not all cases go down in this fashion and can be the center of media bliss, like on 79th Street with the M79 drama. I agree on what was said in an earlier post about politicians not knowing anything about buses, but the people who use the system are the ones who really know what is going on. The only way that the TA is going to listen to what you like or don't like is when you go to your Community Board and Planning Board meetings and also to the MTA meetings at 347 Madison Avenue, and believe me these folks in this particular area do just that!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn - Flxible MetroD #1975
www.transitworld.org
Then I'm getting all of 79th Street to go and get rid of these artics since I hate them. They are slower than the 40 foot buses and cause tons of traffic. And if you think 79th Street is bad, walk 7 blocks north and look at 86th Street!
When i rode with my father who is a B/O working on M79 & i don't see no problem with traffic. Artics is not slower because i see people who don't take out there M/C when they got on the bus & delay the people who are waiting to get on the bus. My father don't have problem with artics & he like the bus. Only problem that cause the traffic & double park is on 81th St between Amsterdam Av & Columbus Av. I don't understand why the politcal, community board & planning board don't like the artics buses & they don't know nothing about artics & they never try to ride on the artics buses on M79 & M86. It the same bulls**t with 40th foot buses. I hope they will learn a lesson
Peace Out
David Justiniano
The deal is that the Artics are not really ideal for the M79 or the M86. Their routing is not really suited for Artics. It would have been great if the TA stuck to the plan of insituting service on the M15 and M102 lines which carry lots of people in both directions. I can tell you that the M79 and M86 ran better with 40 footers because their timing was very tight for a crosstown line. The M14 is supposed to be next on the Artic list for crosstown lines and I live on this line. The ridership is skyrocketed! I could see them on this line because on their eastern terminals they go into the Lower East Side where their is ample room for layover on the M14 C/D portion. I am concerned about the M14A segment though. The area to go back to Grand street is very tight but if they can do it, then more power to the operators! I just hope that they are putting these future Artics where they are "really" needed and not where they "think" they are needed.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn - Flxible MetroD #1975
www.transitworld.org
The new issue of Mobilizing the Region - A Weekly Bulletin from the Tri-State Transportation Campaign [Number 282 August 21, 2000] has an article titled "Accordion Buses Moving Downtown." It says "Next month, NYC Transit plans to replace all standard buses in service along 23rd Street in Manhattan with articulated buses ..." It also says "Riders and residents on other “all articulated” routes have complained the buses are slower, more difficult to get on and off, and cause traffic back-ups around turns. M23 riders are worried about the big buses’ ability to navigate the narrow 11th Ave. turn into Chelsea Piers.” The article concludes by saying "Articulated service is planned along 14th Street by the end of 2000. Due to the increased number of CNG buses in the final 2000-2004 MTA capital plan, the number of articulated buses scheduled for purchase has dropped substantially from the 400 originally planned."
www.tstc.org
MANHATTAN GOT GIPPED! LOL! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I LOVE IT!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I got a question so that mean artics #1000-#1109 will stay at MCQ Depot & the rest(2000 Artics #5295-#5309) going to the bronx right????
Peace Out
David Justiniano
After reading all of the posts on this subject, some questions:
-Will the artics remain on the M79 and M86?
-Will additional Manhattan routes get artics?
-Besides BX1/2 and BX12 which Bronx routes are articulated?
-I understand that one problem with artics is the need to lengthen bus stops, but why were the 23d St. folks opposed to artics? Can't figure it out.
Comment:
Artics ought to be tested on one important N-S Manhattan route (M15 or M103 come to mind as obvious candidates - straight routes without sharp turns except at the terminals) since the ridership on the east side is so high. Maybe use them on limited stop routes only so that only key bus stops need to be lengthened.
Bx12, 44, 41, and 55 have Artics, as do a few others.
-Hank
In the Bronx Artics run on Bx1, Bx2, Bx4, Bx5, Bx12, Bx22, Bx39, Bx40/42 & Bx55 in Manhattan M79 & M86. Artics will run in the future are M14?, M15, M23?, M42?, M72?, M96?, M98/101/102/103?. The question mark mean we don't know if the Artics buses will run or not. Also when the new 100th St Depot open in late 2001 & those depots going to be crosstown routes only but im not sure new 100th St Depot will be Artics or RTS or Orion or Hybrid Orion.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page UPDATED!!!!!!
tentatively when 100 st opens there supposed to have 133 arctics assigned to depot including routes m79 m86 m101 m102 m103
Just read the latest edition of Mobilizing the Region. They have stated that the M23 and M14 are going articulated this year! This is the TA's decision, is it the best decision? That's a whole different question and post. The drivers at Hudson have been telling me for the last 2 to 3 months that the M14 is moving to West Side now Quill. The M72, I don't see it! I could definitely see the M98/101/102/103 lines getting Artics due to the ridership. They are long overdue! Does anybody know what was the delay of placing artics on the Bx41? All I have to say is Amen! That is another line that was overdue for Artics!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn - Flxible MetroD #1975
www.transitworld.org
The M15 is the busiest and one of the straightest lines in the entire system. Can anyone explain to me why articulateds weren't assigned there from day one?
That's because 126th Street, the depot to which the M15 is assigned does not have an articulated lift. The bus can be moved, but there are two problems with this:
126th Street is a TA Depot, the only one in Manhattan, it's a political thing.
The bus terminates directly in front of the depot, making deadheads to any other depot seem all the more wasteful.
Trevor Logan of Transitalk has reported there are plans to build a 60 foot lift and bring artics to that depot.
Thanks for the response. As a driver assigned to 126th St I'm aware of the problems involved with assigning artics to the depot. The lifts are in place and are allegedly working properly. According to our union chairman the next area that needs to be renovated is the two fuel stations. Once that is done then 126th St will be ready to handle artics. My comments were made out of exasperation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you were in charge of assigning buses for a major transit system like NYCTA, wouldn't you assign your most high capacity bus to your busiest line? The M15 should have been the first line with artics and 126th St should have been renovated in anticipation of receiving them.
How many boarding per day on the M15?
Our busiest line is the 2-Bellaire with about 20,000 per day.
The M15 serves approximately 60,000 riders on an average weekday. On the next pick which will go into effect on September 10th, there will be 133 runs assigned to the line.
126th St Depot will be getting 71 Artics not 133 & i know M15 need Artics real bad because so many people riding on those line. There a rumor that someone post it about when new 100th st Depot open in late 2001 & they will be getting 133 artics for M79, M86, M101/102/103 but im not sure this is true or not because i just don't believe that people come up with the ideas who will be getting Artics Buses in Manhattan Division.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page UPDATED!!!!!
The runs a particular line has doesn't mean it will have the same amount of buses.
The 133 runs on the M15 is the most I've seen since they split the M1012 (the combined M101/102) a few years ago. I think that line had a total of about 179 runs.
YAY! My auntie is run 123 on Monday and Friday, run 122 on tuesday, run 77 on saturday and run 71 on sunday.
I've been riding alot with her lately, and what you boys in scheduling need to do is cut back the time alloted between 126th Depot and 96th Street southbound, there is too much time which forces buses drag the line or even stop and stay at a stop.
Prime example, my aunt sat at 97th Street & 2nd Avenue for 6 minutes for time to catch up and she was only maxing out at 15 mph and still was 6 minutes early getting to 96th, it's just too much time.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
One of my biggest pet peeves is trip dragging. It's prominent during morning rushes, late evenings, and Sundays. These are all times when buses should be going fast! It makes the trip cumbersome and longer than it really is, especially when an Artic does it, ugh!
BTW, I'm assuming they use the RTS on the M15?
YOu have to run on schedule. Run hot at a timepoint with a dispatcher and you got problems my man.
I noticed especially this week, alot of guys running hot because of relativlely light loads and the lack of summer school students.
Hi, Trevor. Please double check the run for each day. It is unlikely that she has the same piece for Mon & Fri, with a different piece on Tue. RDO'S are not grouped in this fashion.
Oh I have it correct as I've ridden with here each of those days!
Monday Run 123
Tuesday Run 122
Wednesday Off
Thursday Off
Friday Run 123
Saturday Run 77
Sunday Run 71
I have a copy of her paddle also that states the same.
Trevor
Hey Trevor,
Maybe you can answer this for me, why do the M15 Limited, which are suppose to go fast down 1st Avenue, go slower than the locals? That's one of my pet peeves!
B61 Leonard
Just like in my first post, just too much time alloted for certain time point and then they have to drag the line, which sucks!
Trevor
x1 on si had 138 runs this summer and i believe will have 134 ih fall.
The Q44/20 is up to about 89 runs now, and the mid-90's in the fall pick
Probably they don't want them to fail there, screwing up the busiest line and want them to be proven elsewhere.
AMEN!!! That is just plain common sense! This what I have been saying for years. The deal is the MTA lacks in common sense. The only folks who really have the knowledge of the system are the operators and the riders. The M15 and her sister lines should have been the first lines to get artics along with the Bx12, Bx40/42, Bx41, and Bx55. The M79 and M86 should have never recieved artics period! Big Ups! to you D60HF! I support you and the other bus operators out there!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn - Flxible METRO D #1975
www.transitworld.org
This comment just proves my point! I am with you on that 100% I have documents from 1994 when the 1994-1999 spending budget was done and they allocated money for the lifts to be placed in 126th Street depot. This is way overdue! Somewhere down the line the TA got stupid and decided to make the M79 and M86 the first lines in Manhattan to go artic which is rediculous! You can ask any driver or passenger and they will tell you that this decision was STUPID!!!! I still can't understand how the TA decided this. But someone stated on this board earlier or on SubTalk that the MTA board and upper management don't realate to what the operators and passengers go through everyday. The reason they don't is because they don't utilize the system, instead they have company cars and limos and silly crap like that! There issome kind of change that needs to happen, otherwise we will continue to pay for bull through our pockets! Anyway, Many props and blessings to you D60HF and to all the Bus Operators and passengers and Buffs! LOL!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn - Flxible METRO D #1975
www.transitworld.org
I know you are talking about New York's artic assignments, but down here in Philly, all of the new Neoplan Artics went to Midvale. I think some of them should have went to Victory (69th Street) because they should use the artics on routes 124 and 125 (those two routes are extremely crowded) so you are not the only city with misrouting artics.
THE HOUND NEEDS MONEY
Peace,
ANDEE
hey andee... thanks for the link to the new york times article on greyhound... i didn't know about it... i put up a post at the greyhound through express club at yahoo... i found some more information about this at greyhound's own website at www.greyhound.com... click on news... and then click on press releases... craig lentsch confirmed the reuter's information, but went on to report that greyhound showed an increase in revenues and net income compared to 1999... so the need for 3rd party financing results mainly from laidlaw's $500 million write off, and not from any serious troubles at greyhound... despite an increase in fuel costs of over $9 million, greyhound's net income improved...
what ever happened to these buses? also ive yet to see 6360. is it still in service?
6360 is in pretty random service (rode once on the M3 and saw twice deadheading down Fort Washington Avenue in Washington Heights), I called NovaBUS down in New Mexico about a week ago and the guy I spoke to said that 6361-6364 was still down there near completion. After they are completed, they will be shipped off to the Altoona Testing Center in PA, just like 6360 was, go through a 30-day test phase before 6361-6364 sees service in New York City.
I will keep this board posted on the other 4 NovaBUS RTS Hybrids as I get the information.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
this bus suffered a severe fire in sept 1998 and sat at yukon for a year and a half. i could swear it was a total loss. it is now listed as being at the cmf. is it possible this bus will return from the dead?
Orion 125 is in the process of being revived. hey, if 120 could be fixed, then anything can. If you recall 120 (then 93020) had a close encounter with a rather large tree on Midland Avenue on SI. There was no reason to believe that bus would return.
1st 4396 then 125(93025)yet another Phoenix arises from the ashes.
...or are the steps on NYCB's articulated buses higher than the steps on some other buses? I banged my left leg on the first step trying to get onto a Bx12 bus the other day.
My left leg sure is unlucky this month... first getting banged on that bus, then the ankle got sprained this past weekend at Swallow Falls (W. Maryland).
OK everyone, I need your help. 5034 (TA60102N) is near the paint shop and has to be repainted by the end of September. I was going to restore it as original 8208 from OC Transpo, but absolutely hate that scheme. Its also not appealing to the motion picture producers so it wouldnt get any work with alot of red on it. I am open minded to any scheme and it doesnt have to be a local company. Since this is the ONE and ONLY GM articulated bus in the USA, it needs to look great. Please help me with any ideas. Check out my website as it is being updated today. http://www.geocities.com/regtransit/
Might as well paint it BC Transit (Vancouver) as that's whose buses seem to show up in a lot of movies anyway (like "Rumble in the Bronx" etc.).....that would save the filmmakers a trip up north.
Paint is Red White & Blue
as in the American flag
I think that the red, white and blue motif is a great idea. You already have a New York Bus Service Bus (#1322) with the livery.
As in the colors of BC Transit...
-Hank
Why not offer it to the graphics companies for a wrap in exchange for their use of it in their advertising.
very good idea, I will check into it. Does anyone know any contacts at the graphics companys?
I say leae it in its Missasauga paint scheme or its original OC Transpo as 8208.
The wrap idea is cool and they are done fom LAMTA at South Park.
I think if you look thru Metro or Mass Transit you will find adverts for wrap companys.
Ryder
One of the companies that designs and applies the wrap jobs is at:
http://www.supergraphics.com
If you're going to paint it red, white, and blue, then paint it in the 1978-1996 SEPTA scheme.
Over the last few days, there has been some discussion of NYCT's engine conversion of the 1990 (8000's to 8300's) & 1993 (8400's & 8500's) RTS' into series 50's due to air pollution concerns (ineffective traps). While I can justify the conversion of the 1993's due to their mid life age (and they seem to be converted first), I can't justify the expense of the 1990's. Firstly, presumably the 1993's are all being done first and by the time these are done, spending the time and money on such a project on a 10+ year old bus is not justified. It would be cheaper in the long run just to retire the 1990's before their time.
Do you think the TA is doing this because the 8000 series will be rebuilt or remaned or something in those constraints to keep them running beyond their average lifespan of 12 years? I agree with you that at 10 years of age to have a brand new powerplant and transmission placed into a bus that age is not cost effective, unless you plan on running these units beyond their 12 year lifespan.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn - Flxible MetroD #1975
www.transitworld.org
I agree also that it is not worth the time and the effort to modify the 8000-8396 series buses. The most that should have been done with those buses should been to have converted them into coaches instead of wasting even more money converting the 3000's. I'm quite sure transit will run the 8000's well past their 12 year life span once the conversion process is done. I have often faulted the TA for wasting money on buses that are nearly ready to go to the scrap heap. A couple of years ago, when free intermodal transfers began, the TA, expecting a very large increase in ridership, brought back alot of the 1981 RTS's that were retired. They overhauled and repainted them and in a nut shell spent alot of money on them. That same year, the 9351-9699 series RTS's went into service and all those overhauled 1981's were put to rest. So, after all that money spent, those 1981 buses didn't even stay on the road for 1 full year! And when they were on the road, they were only used during the rush hours, like the 7000's are now in Q.V.(another wasted money project.) Now, if that's not a perfect example of money getting flushed down the toilet, I don't know what is. BIG AL
There are still 1981-82 buses on the road. Additionally, build quality has increased to some degree, as have maintainance schedules improved. 12 years is the AVERAGE lifespan. NYCTA buses seem to last quite a bit longer, with many buses going 15-19 years.
-Hank
The only 1981's on the road are the buses that were remanufactured.(7000's) The only 1982's on the road are the 1700 & 1800 coaches which are only used during the rush hours, most of the time. Those should be gone in the near future also. Most, if not all of these 15-19 year old buses that are still on the road that you are referring to have been rebuilt some time or another. BIG AL
If the TA does repower the 1990 TMC's I think they give them a serious rehab so that they can stay in service for serveral more years. They're old enough now that maybe the TA could pick out those in relative good shape (and better) and concentrate on rebuilding those along with the new engine and tranny.
Just a thought.
Wayne
Thanks for the responses for repainting 5034. I like the idea of NYBS, but the only way I sell 1322 to the studios is to tell them it is a local NY City Greyhound. I dont want to have to try and "SELL" the paint scheme to someone. I want something that will jump out and bite you on the ding ding. It needs to be something thats incredible. I also like the idea on NYCTA, but have 2 others painted that way already. ALSO... Trevor just redid my website and its excellent. Please check it out and let me and him know what you think
http://www.geocities.com/regtransit/
I didn't hear this all that clearly but I did hear this morning on WTOP that the new buses will replace all the Fishbowls. Two will be added to the antique fleet (currently the only bus in that fleet is 1912) and the rest will be scrapped.
DON'T MARK MY WORD. IT IS NOT EASY TO LISTEN TO THE RADIO WHEN GETTING UP IN THE MORNING!
Sad to say - I'd say you probably heard correctly. Those new Orion V & VI's seem to be all over the DC Metro area. I'm thinking that WMATA will keep a new look Flxible and of course a GM fishbowl. If they retain only one fishbowl - I'm thinking that it would be a TDH-5304 since WMATA had so many of them, but it would be nice if they kept one of their TDH-5302's. That's assuming all of the 5302's are not gone already.
Wayne
If that is the case, then is it possible to buy one off of WMATA? Call me crazy, but I've always wanted to own a fishbowl. And if so, can I get rid of the "V" drive configuration and install a "T" drive with a 6V92TA and an Allison automatic?
You were definitely correct with what you heard on the radio. In fact, as I just read WMATA's website for events for this week, TODAY's AM Peak was the last time the remaining 6 fishbowls were to operate. Way to go WMATA for letting people know this after the fact. I was on the website this morning and didn't see any mention of this. All 6 operated out of Four Mile Run in Arlington. As you said, 2 will be added to the antique fleet, they didn't say which ones, and the other 4 will be scrapped. Sometimes under surplus materials, WMATA sells retired buses, so if anyone is interested, keep going to www.WMATA.com to see if they do. Although, they are usally behind in updating anything.
iWENT TOO THE FLEA MARKET @ the Big A today and noticed that they were running a few jetway buses,one of them being a school bus,another being a 8-12 seater van ,and yet another being a nyct rts,didnt get the number,but on the way out,i happened too see several former ta rts setting idle in front of the entrance again not noting the numbers,but noticing one of them had the drivers side front wheel tilted, it was a sad site,looking at the way theses buses outer look looked like,they may have been better off at one of the scrape yards,. I would like too know how much does one of theses used buses cost,about,and how many years do they usually last after the t a is done with them.
The buses you saw from JETAWAY could have been exNYCT buses 1248 and 2492. Belmont racetrack hasn't been having any races lately so these buses could have been sent over there. When I last saw them a couple of weeks ago, I don't remember seeing any with a tilted front wheel. But their overall condition did look rather poor. The only bus they have that seems to be in good condition is the yellow slopeback #52. I sent some pictures last week of them to Trevor, so hopefully he can post them here any day now. Usually when transit sells these buses they go by the general condition in setting the price, so it's hard to give a ball park figure but I would guess around $10,000. I heard a dispatcher bought one in the $3,000 range. How long they will last after they are sold depends on how good they are maintained by the person who buys them. I always say, if you treat your vehicle well, it will treat you well in return. BIG AL
Your most likely right on the maintance part,but too see these things in the shape they were in how do pass a check list, if my memory is correct the bus i saw with the tilted wheel was or begings with 13,i could be wrong but maybe so, i will try to get there tomorrow or during the week to check it out.
The bus with the tilted wheel may have been either 1322 or 93,if memory serves me coorect it may have been 1393
Its probably 1393. I saw that bus at Belmont about 4 weeks ago.
Can anyone give me the history of the bus? What is the frequency of the route? How is the level of passenger service? Where does the operate from? Any more info will be helpful?
B46#5119Mike
The JFK Flyer, aka N91, operates from the Hempstead Bus Terminal, then via Peninsula Blvd., Merrick Road, Hook Creek Blvd., Sunrise Hway, Conduit Avenue, Farmers Blvd, N. Boundary Road to the JFK post office, N. Boundary Road along the Q3 route to the airport terminals.
It operates about every thirty minutes and the ridership is light to moderate at best. They usually operate those B.S. Thomas school buses, however you will occasionally spot a Gillig or an Orion on the route.
Friday about 2:15 p.m. I rode the JFK Flyer from Rockville Centre LIRR (south side of tracks near the old waiting room now under renovation) to Terminal 7. We had five passengers. Forty minutes to the airport, bouncing through every pothole from Rockville Centre through Rosedale. I believe this service is about 4 years old. A route timetable is available at JFK ground transportation desks, some Nassau County LIRR stations, some Nassau County libraries, probably Hempstead bus terminal. Note that it runs express from Hempstead to Rockville Centre, and there are some pick-up restrictions on Merrick Road. Two years ago, I was told that the drivers are paid paratransit scale, not transit scale. Nassau County senior fare begins at age 60, so for me it's a 75-cent bus to the plane. Metrocard accepted. The headway is greater than 30 minutes.
Some of the buses are the mini-buses that are used for paratransit.
B61 Leonard
Watch out, alot of the mini-buses and Thomas buses have no A/C and it's very hot in there. Then again there's alot of buses in the regular fleet with no A/C and locked windows.
My advice, don't ride LI Bus if you don't have to!!
The MTA information page has links to LI Bus & JFK Flyer, with one page of description and one page of schedules.
The original route started in Rockville Centre. The service (non-stop) between Hempstead and Rockville Centre is relatively new.
[The original route started in Rockville Centre.]
I assume this was because Rockville Centre is the last inbound express stop on the Babylon line, so LIRR riders COULD easily get there from Jamaica or the Babylon line. The rail replacement goes to Jamaica because of all these (potential) customers, at least that's what the MTA thinks/hopes. From the current volume it appears that all these customers are waiting for the rail version to be finished :-(
Mr t
"From the current volume it appears that all these customers are waiting
for the rail version to be finished :-( "
Can you blame them? LI Buses that run on the JFK Flyer are usually a Non air conditioned Thomas Built piece of crap school bus, or a slow, loud, and hot Gillig Phantom.
Perhaps when LI Bus gets it's whole fleet in order and learn how to use air conditioning maybe then people will catch it from the LIRR.
I'd rather take LIRR to Jamaica, then the E to Union turnpike, then the Q10 to JFK. Maybe abit slower, but DEFINATELY more comfortable.
I notice LI Bus has spent money on new uniforms, it's got a blue and orange logo that says MSBA, instead of the standard MTA logo.
How about fixing the damn buses?
I had a few days off last week. On drizzly, cool Friday, I rode that line as I needed to get caught up on some riding. All the way down from the Bronx via the "D" and "A", then the Q10 to JFK. That was Green's Classic 708, which I had never been on. I missed the N91 by seconds; it was an Orion anyway, so no big deal. The next bus arrived 1/2 hour later, giving me some time to shoot the Champions running for Port Authority. Nice buses. The N91 was a Thomas, which was a thrill. Talk about amusement park rides! Bouncy as heck, but with windows open, nice and cool. The bus was fast too. Got to Hempstead for 12 noon. Seeing a Gilling jockey into place for the return trip on the 91, I had to take it. Who knows how long they'll be around.
Slow, loud acceleration. Once moving, it was quite fast. At JFK, checked out the classic TWA terminal. SO 1960's!!!! Lots of memories there. The Q10 back to the train was an Orion, 5545; probably the best riding bus I rode all day.
Joe C.
What is the EXACT route,,from and to Hempstead,,Do you have that Information
THanks
Steve
http://community.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT/NJHUDSONANDESSEX
Unless someone posts it first, all I can do is post what the schedule says, tomorrow.
Joe C
Thank you
According to the map and guide LIBus gives out, the route is:
Between Lirr/ Hempstead Term Transit ctre.and Rockville Ctre LIRR, the route is vague and roads not marked, only listed as Express service (dotted liens). At Rocville, the bus takes Sunrise Hwy to Merrick into Lynbrook (5 Corners. Continues to Hook Creek Blvd Valley Stream crossing Rockaway Pkwy and Central Ave's. Hook Creek to sunrise Hwy/ Rosedale LIRRStn. Crosses Brookville Blvd and Springfield Blvd, onto North/ South Conduit to Farmers Blvd. Continues to the PostalFacility on N.Boundary Rd ( the map indicates a branch to the postal facility and Eastern Rd). From N. Boundary the bus runs on 148th ST to JFK Expressway & into the airport hitting term 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 1, 2, 3, 4W and 4E, then heads back out.
Hope that helps.
I believe that I have seen the bus on Penninsula Blvd which would make sense as the quickest way between Hempstead and RVC. Hopefully they turn left off of Penninsula (at Ocean) to Merrick so that they possibly can pick up more passengers en route.
Thank you
Can anyone verify the route in Hempstead to and from Lynbrook
Steve
I was on it just the other day, takes Peninsula Blvd, then a left on Lakeview and then N.Village to Rockville Centre LIRR, then via Merrick Road, Hook Creek Blvd, and Conduit to JFK.
Hempstead bound trips do skip Rockville Centre though.
It's pretty quick, you get to just outside JFK in a little over 30 minutes, but being the maze JFK is, the trip to the main terminal (One) takes about 50 minutes.
Fortunately I had air conditioned Orion CNG bus 133, and not a piece of crap Gillig of Thomas bus.
From Hempstead Terminal, follows the route of the N16 to South Franklin and Peninsula. Right on Peninisula to Lakeview Avenue. Left on Lakeview, then follows the route of the N15 to the RVC railroad station. From railroad station, right on Park Avenue, right on Sunrise, then bear right onto Merrick Road.
From JFK / Lynbrook, Merrick Road bear left onto Sunrise Highway. Follows Sunrise to Morris Avenue, Left on Morris, left into Commuter rail parking lot to the Rockville Centre LIRR, stopping at the northbound N15/16 stop. Follow the route of the N15 to Lakeview and Peninsula. Right on Peninsula, Left on South Franklin, Follow N16 route into Hempstead terminal.
Chuck
[The Q10 back to the train was an Orion, 5545; probably the best riding bus I rode all day.]
Joe, I believe 5545 is one of the 6 diesel Orions that came over from Queens Surface not too long ago. That might explain why it rode so well.
GBL 5545 was dearly deaparted QSC 700. I've been on those 700 Orions when they were at QSC on express bus runs...I too remember them being smooth and fast as well :-)
I remember riding on one of those QSC Orions (in the 700 series) when I was going to Queens Plaza from Roosevelt Island via Q102. The ride was OK.
A saw another one on the Q101 a while back and the sign was working!
Reminder ... the signs on the 50 diesel Orions that came from the Washington order are odd balls & Orion doesn't use that mfg anymore.
Mr t__:^)
The Green Line Orions are nice. I rode on one last year, and I was quite impressed. And on my ride on the Q10 today the Orions sounded very nice. Except for broken destinations signs they all appear to be in great shape, at least compared to LI Bus!!! Also really like the wood panels in the interior of the Green Orions, very cozy looking.
Aren't those New Flyer buses running for Port Authority? I think the NF logo was on the front of the bus.
Man if that was me just missing that Orion on the JFK Flyer I would've been pissed.
How could you like those Thomas buses? I more or less refuse to ride on them, it's like an amusement ride and there's no A/C, plus it's so loud I can't hear myself think.
The Gilligs are horrible too, and lately I've had the pleasure of riding them EVERY DAY. They are falling apart, vent grilles are loose and alot of the emergency window handles are broken off (is this a safety violation?). I guess people broke them off because the window wouldn't open when there was no A/C.
I hope those new Orion CNG's come soon because the Gilligs are finished!! Then again, LIB will probably figure out a way to mess up with new batch of Orion CNG's coming in!!
LIB has got to be the worst public bus operator in the Metropolitan area.
Hi John,
The buses I referred to are the low-floor, 30 footers that the Port runs around the airport. These look like NYCTA buses as they are white with a blue stripe. They are Champions and are catching on in different cities. I wanted to ride that Thomas because I have never been on one and they may not survive, nor the Gilligs. I've never ridden a LIBus Gillig, only Gilligs in California, the Gillig capitol of the universe. I've learned to be tolerant, even open minded, about different buses, even school buses; makes for a fun time. Last Friday's drizzle and cool climate made the ride very enjoyable.
I take a bus from the Rockville Centre LIRR everyday, so I usually see a Flyer or two. I've never seen more than 10 people on that bus at any one time, and usually there aren't more than 3 or 4. I don't know if more riders get on along Merrick Road as it heads towards JFK, though.
Chuck
Why do they lock the windows shut when there's no A/C? I've seen this on several Orions and Gilligs today while on the N22 and N21.
Looks like an allen wrench is needed to open them, I'll have to bring one next time because sometimes the bus gets hot and you have to breathe.
I heard from a driver that our new CNG Orion bus, 288, is not doing too well. It has major stalling problems. I can't understand why, QSC's Orions which look and sound identical to 288 are doing just fine.
Perhaps it's shoddy LI Bus maintainance. I said that if you give LI Bus a new bus it will STILL breakdown.
And speaking of breakdowns, I saw #109 at Great Neck broke down with the maint. truck (I call it a tinker truck) with passengers inside waiting for next bus (they had to double up). Mechanic said the bus stalled out. They did get that one started eventually and it went OOS back to RVC.
Also saw #647 (diesel Orion) on the N15 having problems leaving Roosevelt Field on Sunday. All windows were open and I heard the bus stall out while picking people up at the stop. The driver restarted it but it stalled again. Tried again a few minutes later and it finally started, after being revved up.
Loads of buses with no A/C this weekend though, fortunately the weather has been very cool so it hasn't been too bad at all, but when those windows are locked it's a pain in the a**!!!
Here's a few more for u John: 143 Hole in right side of the bus, 138 broken destination sign, 536 broken sign as well, 609- white rear and very dirty, 204- sounded beyond horrible, 652 needs a make over, and all these buses no a/c. LI Bus should be out of commission. They're a disgrace to the MTA.
R36Gary
We all know why they are still here,its Uncle George,state funding should be cut off until better service is giving.
Well tonight I had 133 going back from Flushing, it was running just fine, it didn't hesitate like the other buses on hills, only one problem. NO A/C....
That's right, once again no air conditioning and I couldn't get the damn windows open. My little wrench can't turn the nuts on the bus windows, they seemed to be stuck. And most people who are on the bus don't even seem to care that it's hot in there (Most LI Bus riders are so complacent!!).
When we got to Great Neck alot of people got off, so I was able to get to some windows. Finally I found a few that opened. Why don't these people open the damn windows? It's bad enough that there's no A/C and most of the windows are locked shut, then you got the dumb people who don't try and open the window!!
Urggghh!! I'm gonna have to start taking the train more often, because my Mom's sick in the hospital with cancer and I have to visit everyday along with my usual errands and I don't have patience or tolerance for this nonsense! Do I have to pop out an emergency window to get some air, or complain that I have a medical condition and that I need A/C or fresh air? Then all the people on the bus would probably attack me because I'm holding it up!
Do I have to go down to LI Bus HQ and report more buses? Like it'll do anything. I should demand to speak to the head jerk Neil Yellin, LI Bus president!!!
Do I have to pop out an emergency window to get some air, or complain that I have a medical condition and that I need A/C or fresh air? Then all the people on the bus would probably attack me because I'm holding it up!
It's entirely possible that the A/C was intentionally turned-off by the BO. Your first course of action would be to suggest to the driver that you're uncomfortable, and want to know if the A/C is working properly. If it is, and it's off, s/he'll turn it on. If it's not working properly (or at all), you might request that the driver open the windows (and/or roof hatches - if applicable).
Do I have to go down to LI Bus HQ and report more buses? Like it'll do anything. I should demand to speak to the head jerk Neil Yellin, LI Bus president!!!
You should always register your complaints. Better than a phone call is a written letter Cc'd to management, as well as customer service. You have a right to an air-conditioned ride if the AC system is working properly. The BO should note the defect on his/her OVCR if it isn't. If A/C is medically necessary, and you're feeling sick, alert the driver. That bus will most definitely have working AC the next time you see it. There have been times when a replacement bus was sent out due to passengers complaining about heat-related sickness/illness....
HTH
What a shame! I, too, have fantasized about buying a WMATA surplus fishbowl -- they have a page on their website where they sell surplus vehicles and parts -- but I'd have nowhere to store it. And I was out of town for the final day of service.
On a positive note, I did get to ride in a beautifully preserved fishbowl Suburban (if that's what you call it -- 40 ft with elevated seating platform, high-backed seats, and no rear door) on Saturday in Juneau, AK, where they hang on to their buses longer.
And I saw my first Orion VI in the D.C. city limits when I got back yesterday while driving down North Capitol St. yesterday. In with the new, out with the old, I guess. The end of an era.
Chris
I've noticed a new "Wide Right Turns" decal on some NYCT buses recently. It has a picture of an RTS-CNG bus with rear lights that look like something from Green Lines. Of course, it has the traditional blue stripe around the bus, and an MTA-NYCB logo at the bottom of the black part. Stranger thing is that I've seen these decals on Q32 buses from Stengel, which has no RTS's in its fleet! What's up with that?
All NYCT buses are getting these new decals. All the buses in Queens received them several weeks ago already. They only designed one decal, so they put a picture of an RTS since it is the most common bus Transit uses. Designing 5 or more different decals to match the type of bus it is on would be costly and stupid. All though there are no CNG RTS's with vertical taillights, I suppose the company who made the decal just used a general picture of an RTS and threw in some minor details to make it look like a NYC bus. The reason for the decals is because bus accidents are up and alot of them are right side accidents so they are trying to get people more aware not to pass the bus on the right side. I think the decals are much better also than the small old ones transit was using. BIG AL
http://community.webtv.net/SMOKIECAT/NJHudsonandEssex
A full expose of IBOA of the Hudson and Essex Cty Routes Operating Today
I need your cooperation and feel free to contact me if you see errors,,Rosters,Destination Signs
Thanks
Steve
914 668 9218
8 AM to Midnight
What is Coach USA and where did they come from? Their buses seem to be everywhere.
Carl M.
They're the big fish, they've eaten a number of bus companies around the nation to create a bus giant. They've been eaten by a bigger fish, Stagecoach of Britain.
Have they taken over part or all of Short Line?
Carl M.
Short Line is a Coach USA company.
Check out their Web Site, In Canada they are known as Coach Canada
Before the GMC Fishbowls with their plastic seats came along, we rode Mack buses in Brooklyn. I recall them from at least the mid fifties to around 1960.
Some had a double rear exit staircase with a rail down the center of the stairs. At the end of their run, some were fitted with passenger "push open" doors, not motorized but unlocked by the driver.
Does anyone else recall these buses?
I can't find information,photos or models on them. They were definitely MACK. Can anyone help? Thanks?
Red.
Is this the old bus Ralph Kramden drove on the Honeymooners? It had cushioned seats if I remember correctly, all facing foward like on a school bus. Double paneled window in the rear over the engine. I believe they used to run on the Q4 back in the middle and late sixties from Jamaica until the GM fishbowls started coming in. NYC Transit should still have a couple as museum buses. BIG AL
The only photo I've ever seen of Ralph Kramden in the driver's seat [which by the way is accurate for the route] was the 1949 and somewhat later GMC 44/45 passenger coach. Fits your description, that's how they all were then, nice cusshions and most seats facing forward.These were common busses on NYC Omnibus, 5th Ave, and many other properties. Not common on Surface Transit routes until some NYCO and 5th Ave. busses were transferred there in late 50's.
Surface Line s Ran Macks in Manhatten and GMC s In the Bronx, from day 1 when they took over the TARS, in 57 or later they ran some GMCS in Manhatten, but only on the M104
I remember Surface GMCs (4506s and 4507s and even some 5104s) in Manhattan on not only the M104, but on the M101, M106 (42d St), and M103 (59th St), all during the 1950s, along with the larger Mack fleet.
Ralph Cramdon Drove a GMC TDH4507
It's possible as NYC Omnibus did have them. The publicity shot showed a 4509, with the rounded corners on the windows. Thje 4507 (and 4506) had windows with square corners,
Wish I could offer the help you request but to broaden the horizons of finding photos anyway I could offer that Macks were also operated on Staten Island and were almost the exclusive type of bus on the 3rd Ave. Manhattan routes (Surface Transportation) and although in the minority were also used in the Bronx, for several years the Concourse routes were exclusively Mack. Hope this will be of some help.
In NYC, Mack buses were found on NYCTA routes in Brooklyn and Staten Island (1947 C45s, 1950 C50s, and 1956 C49s). Also the C45s and C50s ran on NYCTA Manhattan routes (1st/2nd Aves, 49/50th Sts, 65/66th Sts, York, Madison/Chambers) until 1957.
Surface Transportation (ex-3d Ave. Railway) used Macks primarily on its Manhattan routes (today's M100, M101, M104, M42, and the old M103 59th St. Xtown). Macks also ran on Bronx routes interspersed with GMC buses.
Fifth Ave. Coach had 25 1951 model C50s that ran exclusively on the #15 Jackson Heights route (today the Q32) for many years before being transferred to Surface Transportation after Fifth Ave. bought Surface in 1956.
Ave.B & E Broadway in Manhattan was a primarily Mack property for many years.
Jamaica Buses in Queens also had a large fleet of C45 Macks.
And to the poster Al (re: the Ralph Kramden bus): the posed Honeymooners shots were with GMC 4509 bues (1949 models), which indeed were the only ones used on Madison Ave. during the time of the famous TV show.
A sincere "thank you" to Andy. I really thought I was losing it there for a while! I knew they were Macks, not GMCs like Mr. Kramden drove. Why are there no pictures or other materials available on these buses? I guess Mack was a minor player in surface transportation. I think they were better looking buses than the same vintage GMCs.
Thanks for the kind words. Mack was a major player in the transit bus industry till the mid-1950s, but then went out of the bus business in 1960. After WW II it was definitely second fiddle to GM, and also had to compete with other bus manufacturers such as White, ACF Brill, and Twin Coach. The general downtrend in transit riding between 1947 and the mid-1960s definitely hurt Mack.
A book recently came out about the history of Mack buses - don't know the title, but you might want to have a look at it.
Besides the NYC firms I mentioned, Buffalo (Niagara Frontier Transit), San Francisco (Muni), and Boston (MTA) had large fleets of Mack post-WW II transit buses.
Personally I thoughtthe GMC's were better looking but appreciated the variety. A change is always nice and it's good that GM didn't corner the entire market, even if they had most of it.
The thing that stands out in my mind about Mack busses even though it's been 35 years since I've been on one is that they had to be the stiffest riding bus I ever rode.
hey ed... you wrote:
"The thing that stands out in my mind about Mack busses even though it's been 35 years since I've been on one is that they had to be the stiffest riding bus I ever rode."
i am not sure what you mean by stiffest riding bus... to me, that sounds like you're saying that it rode like a tank, meaning you felt every bump in the road... i remember the c-49 macks that were in brooklyn, as having a real floating ride... i think they had an air suspension... i can visualize one of them pulling into a bus stop in sheepshead bay and taking a few seconds to kind of settle down once it stopped... it kind of rocked laterally...
to me, the original flexibles, the 5000 series really had a stiff tank like ride to them...
at the transit museum's shops, i've seen them selling the book of photographs of mack bus production... i also have an article on mack buses from motor coach age that i would be happy to duplicate for any mack bus fans
it should be known that
C-49 Macks Rule The World
HeyPaul, et al,
The C49's rode very TIGHT, that is, very few rattles, that I can recall. And the MaBSTOA buses inherited from Surface had been pretty worn down by the mid 1960's when OA ran them in the Bronx. Bounce!!!
Enjoyed every bit of it.
Too bad you may not remember Yonkers Transit's C49 New Looks. These had to ride like clouds. Smooth and tight. Never been on a bus since that even came close except for a Los Angeles (SCRTD) AMGeneral.
Yes, long live the C49!!
Joe C
Besides Yonkers Transit, Bee Line of Rockville Centre, L.I., had 5 Mack New Looks (#620-624) and Hempstead Bus Corp. had one (402). I liked Bee Line's alot, but they didn't last as long as the company's GMC's. For example, some of the 40 foot GMC's in the 600-619 series wound up at MSBA after the 1973 takeover, but none of 620-624 made it. Also, Hempstead Bus had two buses (401 and 403) that were very much like standard Macks, but with a metal plate in the front to try to give it a newer look.
I Think Orange and Black Busses in NJ Had Macks, and so did United Traction in the Albany Area.
Didn't one or two of these "front-plated" Macks end up on Ave B?
Joe
They sure did, here's some samples:
Sad state
Peace,
ANDEE
heypaul, know anything about these beasties?
MACK RAILBUS
Peace,
ANDEE
nyct owned mack buses 5200-5549. many ran out of eny and flatbush. none were preserved. the 6000 series lasted until the late 60s running out of ulmer park.
NYCTA 5200-5299 Manhatten 5300-5449-Flatbush 5450-5599 ENY and I think Fresh Pond. 5000-5199 Manhatten The remainder in Staten Island until about 55 and then to Ulmer Pakr. 6000s Ulmer Park, During the 50s Jamaica Busses were about 90 pct Mack
andee... i never saw that railbus before... thanks...
i once posted here that i was deeply surprised one afternoon when i was passing coney island yard on macdonald ave, and saw some guys checking out the sperry inspection car, which was a mack railbus... they had the rear cover up, and there was a mack diesel engine there... i really don't know what i thought was powering the car, but i was really surprised to see the engine...
The Sperry Car (#402, I believe) that is/was a Mack Railbus was originally owned by the New Haven R.R. They had a small fleet of them, but only one ever ran for a short time. They were known as "FCD" cars, after Frank Dumaine -- the president of the New Haven, who ordered them. They were delivered shortly before the bankruptcy, and Patrick McGinnis stepped in to runt he NHRR, and that was the end of the Mack FCD Railbuses.
I understand that another survived besides the Sperry Car -- it was in Bridgeport, CT, as the Remington plant where it was used as a materials transport within the plant complex. I think it was retired ans scrapped years ago.
Hey Steve, that car (bus?) is in the Danbury Tranptn. museum.
Joe
Good! At least someone thought to save it!! It was a very unique piece of transportation history.
If anyone is interested another US Mack still exsits (One of the few)
SF MUNI 2617 still exsits in its "Copped" to 30 foot state done by MUNI for use on line 39.
One of the few few.
I also know of some foriegn Macks saved.
2 are in Sweden done by various busfan groups and one is in Argentina.
Also I know of a former Greyhound unit in a scrapyard in Richmond,Ca. A funny story is when I was going thru the greyhond unit for salvagable parts for use on the 2617 restoration I started to notice ANCIENT transfer books and schedules. As it turned out it was a collection of LA and SF streetcar transfers, etc fro the late 50's and early 60's!
Must of been some eccentric early busfans that had owned it!
Interesting busses RARE to see.
Blue
I may be wrong, but I recollect seeing a Mack in the transportation museum in Brussels, Belgium, back in 1985. It may have been built by someone else under license from Mack, but my memory is very fuzzy on this.
Also, I was in the transportation museum in Stockholm, Sweden, last month and they had one bus there that looked alot like a Mack, although I recollect the indication was it was built by someone else. Again, it may have been under a license from Mack.
I seem to have also learned that Macks may still be operating in Brussles.
In the music Video "Hey boy hey girl" I saw recentley a Brussles Mack can be seen in the background.
Blue
I still have a 35mm slide I took in the mid 70's on Fulton St. around Hemlock or Autumn when I lived in Cypress Hills. There was a Mack parked there, looked like colors were Ave. B and E.Bway; it had apparently been made into a camper. I wish I had gotten more specific info.
The Brussel's Macks were built under license by Scania Vabis. There was some agreement with the Mack design anf the Scania engine. The "C50" for Sweden was first then many orders followed patterned after the Surface Transit C45's. Scania continued to build copy Macks later on and evolved into its own bus, The Metropole. Scania still does build buses and many do still sound like Macks.
Joe C
The video is "Hey Boy Hey Girl" by the Chemical Brothers and features alot of busses.
In fact the Brussles Mack is seen thru the window of a road type bus.
Blue
I agree, I did not like the Mack Bus.as much as the GMC. Maybe because when I was a kid all the local routes were from Flatbush and Ulmer Park, and all they had were Macks. They are the only bus I ever got car sick on. I thought the car sickness I though was a childhood thing, but even rideing them into the 70s in San Francisco I still got sick
From what I remember of those buses, they rode very smooth also. And the seats were extremely comfortable. I loved the way the interior lights looked. Small square glass panels over the seats with regular light bulbs in them. I was only around 5 or 6 years old when I rode these buses, and find it funny how I still remember small details like that concerning those buses. BIG AL
Well, maybe I laid an egg. I rode the Surface Transportation Macks both in Manhattan [1600,1700's] and the Bronx [2000's] and I'd swear they didn'thave air suspension. They felt hard riding to me. Also some I rode on Staten Island. But there may have been better models.
No hurry but send me an e-mail when you're ready for copying that Mack article.
My favorite bus (transit) was the TD4506 with that neat array of vents on the roof, but otherwise similar to the -4507.
A sincere "thank you" to Andy. I really thought I was losing it there for a while! I knew they were Macks, not GMCs like Mr. Kramden drove. Why are there no pictures or other materials available on these buses? I guess Mack was a minor player in surface transportation. I think they were better looking buses than the same vintage GMCs.
Thanks for the kind words. Mack was a major player in the transit bus industry till the mid-1950s, but then went out of the bus business in 1960. After WW II it was definitely second fiddle to GM, and also had to compete with other bus manufacturers such as White, ACF Brill, and Twin Coach. The general downtrend in transit riding between 1947 and the mid-1960s definitely hurt Mack.
A book recently came out about the history of Mack buses - don't know the title, but you might want to have a look at it.
Besides the NYC firms I mentioned, Buffalo (Niagara Frontier Transit), San Francisco (Muni), and Boston (MTA) had large fleets of Mack post-WW II transit buses.
Personally I thoughtthe GMC's were better looking but appreciated the variety. A change is always nice and it's good that GM didn't corner the entire market, even if they had most of it.
The thing that stands out in my mind about Mack busses even though it's been 35 years since I've been on one is that they had to be the stiffest riding bus I ever rode.
hey ed... you wrote:
"The thing that stands out in my mind about Mack busses even though it's been 35 years since I've been on one is that they had to be the stiffest riding bus I ever rode."
i am not sure what you mean by stiffest riding bus... to me, that sounds like you're saying that it rode like a tank, meaning you felt every bump in the road... i remember the c-49 macks that were in brooklyn, as having a real floating ride... i think they had an air suspension... i can visualize one of them pulling into a bus stop in sheepshead bay and taking a few seconds to kind of settle down once it stopped... it kind of rocked laterally...
to me, the original flexibles, the 5000 series really had a stiff tank like ride to them...
at the transit museum's shops, i've seen them selling the book of photographs of mack bus production... i also have an article on mack buses from motor coach age that i would be happy to duplicate for any mack bus fans
it should be known that
C-49 Macks Rule The World
HeyPaul, et al,
The C49's rode very TIGHT, that is, very few rattles, that I can recall. And the MaBSTOA buses inherited from Surface had been pretty worn down by the mid 1960's when OA ran them in the Bronx. Bounce!!!
Enjoyed every bit of it.
Too bad you may not remember Yonkers Transit's C49 New Looks. These had to ride like clouds. Smooth and tight. Never been on a bus since that even came close except for a Los Angeles (SCRTD) AMGeneral.
Yes, long live the C49!!
Joe C
Besides Yonkers Transit, Bee Line of Rockville Centre, L.I., had 5 Mack New Looks (#620-624) and Hempstead Bus Corp. had one (402). I liked Bee Line's alot, but they didn't last as long as the company's GMC's. For example, some of the 40 foot GMC's in the 600-619 series wound up at MSBA after the 1973 takeover, but none of 620-624 made it. Also, Hempstead Bus had two buses (401 and 403) that were very much like standard Macks, but with a metal plate in the front to try to give it a newer look.
I Think Orange and Black Busses in NJ Had Macks, and so did United Traction in the Albany Area.
Didn't one or two of these "front-plated" Macks end up on Ave B?
Joe
They sure did, here's some samples:
Sad state
Peace,
ANDEE
heypaul, know anything about these beasties?
MACK RAILBUS
Peace,
ANDEE
nyct owned mack buses 5200-5549. many ran out of eny and flatbush. none were preserved. the 6000 series lasted until the late 60s running out of ulmer park.
NYCTA 5200-5299 Manhatten 5300-5449-Flatbush 5450-5599 ENY and I think Fresh Pond. 5000-5199 Manhatten The remainder in Staten Island until about 55 and then to Ulmer Pakr. 6000s Ulmer Park, During the 50s Jamaica Busses were about 90 pct Mack
andee... i never saw that railbus before... thanks...
i once posted here that i was deeply surprised one afternoon when i was passing coney island yard on macdonald ave, and saw some guys checking out the sperry inspection car, which was a mack railbus... they had the rear cover up, and there was a mack diesel engine there... i really don't know what i thought was powering the car, but i was really surprised to see the engine...
The Sperry Car (#402, I believe) that is/was a Mack Railbus was originally owned by the New Haven R.R. They had a small fleet of them, but only one ever ran for a short time. They were known as "FCD" cars, after Frank Dumaine -- the president of the New Haven, who ordered them. They were delivered shortly before the bankruptcy, and Patrick McGinnis stepped in to runt he NHRR, and that was the end of the Mack FCD Railbuses.
I understand that another survived besides the Sperry Car -- it was in Bridgeport, CT, as the Remington plant where it was used as a materials transport within the plant complex. I think it was retired ans scrapped years ago.
Hey Steve, that car (bus?) is in the Danbury Tranptn. museum.
Joe
Good! At least someone thought to save it!! It was a very unique piece of transportation history.
If anyone is interested another US Mack still exsits (One of the few)
SF MUNI 2617 still exsits in its "Copped" to 30 foot state done by MUNI for use on line 39.
One of the few few.
I also know of some foriegn Macks saved.
2 are in Sweden done by various busfan groups and one is in Argentina.
Also I know of a former Greyhound unit in a scrapyard in Richmond,Ca. A funny story is when I was going thru the greyhond unit for salvagable parts for use on the 2617 restoration I started to notice ANCIENT transfer books and schedules. As it turned out it was a collection of LA and SF streetcar transfers, etc fro the late 50's and early 60's!
Must of been some eccentric early busfans that had owned it!
Interesting busses RARE to see.
Blue
I may be wrong, but I recollect seeing a Mack in the transportation museum in Brussels, Belgium, back in 1985. It may have been built by someone else under license from Mack, but my memory is very fuzzy on this.
Also, I was in the transportation museum in Stockholm, Sweden, last month and they had one bus there that looked alot like a Mack, although I recollect the indication was it was built by someone else. Again, it may have been under a license from Mack.
I seem to have also learned that Macks may still be operating in Brussles.
In the music Video "Hey boy hey girl" I saw recentley a Brussles Mack can be seen in the background.
Blue
I still have a 35mm slide I took in the mid 70's on Fulton St. around Hemlock or Autumn when I lived in Cypress Hills. There was a Mack parked there, looked like colors were Ave. B and E.Bway; it had apparently been made into a camper. I wish I had gotten more specific info.
The Brussel's Macks were built under license by Scania Vabis. There was some agreement with the Mack design anf the Scania engine. The "C50" for Sweden was first then many orders followed patterned after the Surface Transit C45's. Scania continued to build copy Macks later on and evolved into its own bus, The Metropole. Scania still does build buses and many do still sound like Macks.
Joe C
The video is "Hey Boy Hey Girl" by the Chemical Brothers and features alot of busses.
In fact the Brussles Mack is seen thru the window of a road type bus.
Blue
I agree, I did not like the Mack Bus.as much as the GMC. Maybe because when I was a kid all the local routes were from Flatbush and Ulmer Park, and all they had were Macks. They are the only bus I ever got car sick on. I thought the car sickness I though was a childhood thing, but even rideing them into the 70s in San Francisco I still got sick
From what I remember of those buses, they rode very smooth also. And the seats were extremely comfortable. I loved the way the interior lights looked. Small square glass panels over the seats with regular light bulbs in them. I was only around 5 or 6 years old when I rode these buses, and find it funny how I still remember small details like that concerning those buses. BIG AL
Well, maybe I laid an egg. I rode the Surface Transportation Macks both in Manhattan [1600,1700's] and the Bronx [2000's] and I'd swear they didn'thave air suspension. They felt hard riding to me. Also some I rode on Staten Island. But there may have been better models.
No hurry but send me an e-mail when you're ready for copying that Mack article.
My favorite bus (transit) was the TD4506 with that neat array of vents on the roof, but otherwise similar to the -4507.
You will find my 2 photos of the TA Museum Mack 6259 at:
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk_34/SidK/MTA_Mack_6259a.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk_34/SidK/MTA_Mack_6259b.jpg
(I wish I could do the link to get you right there, but I don't know how - sorry!) The pictures are also at Transit World, but I don't have the complete address.
You are remembering the C-50 Macks from about 1950 which had wide doors and sliding windows. These disappeared from Brooklyn around 1960 as the first GM Fishbowls began their takeover and it seems that none have been preserved. Then there were the C-49 Macks from 1956 whose arrival ended the age of the PCC trolley. They ended up in Staten Island and served into the early 70's. They too had wide exit doors. There were three 1948 GMCs which also had wide exit doors. They were 4897-4899 and ran out of the Jamaica depot until their retirement. Fifth Avenue/Surface had 10 Mack C-49s from about 1957 which were originally numbered 3000-3009 and later changed to 4900-4909 when the TA took over that operation. They were the only Macks with passenger operated exit door. GM models began to have these doors in 1957 with the 7000s in Jamaica. The Macks were always my favorite buses of their day. It's too bad that Corgi doesn't do a series of Mack models like their great GM models.
Definitely in agreement about the Corgi comment!!!
I did hear a rumor, about three years ago, that the company that produced the plastic TDH4510's and Flxible Clipper bus models was going to do one of the Mack models next. Alas, they haven't brought out anything new since the TDH4510's!!
08/25/2000
[You are remembering the C-50 Macks from about 1950 which had wide doors and sliding windows.]
Were these the buses dubbed "Bingham liners" named after Sidney Bingham of the Transit Authority?
Bill "Newkirk"
I think you are right about the Bingham association. It's too bad that none of those buses was preserved. Two real gaps in the TA museum fleet are the lack all but one Mack bus, 6259, and no Twin coach. It's hard to even find pictures of NYCTA Macks and Twins.
nyct has pictures of both of these models. attend the bus festival on 9/16 and you may be able to purchase picture. they are about 8 dollars.
I have one B&W glossy of each of these models from the TA Museum: Twin 1568 and Mack 5249. Are there others I should be looking for?
The 1950 Mack C50s were indeed called "Bimgham Macks" because these 400 buses were a custom designed model, not the standard C50 (which 5th Ave. Coach ran on the #15 for many years). Sidney Bingham was chairman of the Board of Transportation in 1950 (the TA only dates from 1953). These buses were custom designed with double wide doors and interior rods and hooks to enable to buses to be easily convertible to an ambulance in case of Russian nuclear attack (yes, in those days civil defense was a big topic). The seats were also offset, not straight backed. And of course the sliding window sash was unusual for buses of that era. It is reported that Bingham received a royalty for every bus produced, but this is not documented as far as I know.
I happened to be in the yard that houses CPY/Stengel annex. The adress by the way is 40-22 College Point Blvd. You have to pass the guard, but tell him you're going to 'boston coach' and he'll direct you right to where the buses are parked.
Anyway, all i saw there on Tuesday evening were the following:
4563,3497,4217,4575,4574,4352,4356
as well as those oddball orions with the cummins engines.
4574 had a bad list to the left and the right rear panel over the tire was gone.
I saw none of the 5100s or those other JAM buses that were supposedly laid up there. paerhaps theyre back at JAM??
They finished paving the yard so alot of the buses that are drivable are coming back home to Jamaica, and the rest are probably waiting to be towed. BIG AL
Over the last two weekends, approximately 30-40 Jamaica buses were stored in our Queens Village employee parking lot (Clearly visible from the lot entrance). They were shifted by Jamaica BO's (I believe) Friday night, and returned Sunday evening.
As I understand it, our rear-lot, as well as the maintenance apron, will now permanently store and park buses to accomodate the influx of new (apparently, anyone elses old) buses for the upcoming Fall schedule (which starts Sunday, September 10, 2000).
For those of you who don't watch Survivor, or have a TV in the same room as the PC, or are in the Mountain, Pacific, Alaskan, Aleutian or Hawaiian time zones, there will be a special chat tonight, at 8PM (the usual time). If you can't make it at eight, then make it later.
I've installed brand new Java chat software which I have complete control over. This has a number of advantages:
The new version solves the problem of the user list failing to update (or at least I think it does).
No more unnamed guests, the system has a login screen where you enter a name before connecting to the room.
The text in the chat window is black, not gray, and that can be changed at will.
I can change the features at will
I am no longer at the mercy of CJB.net.
To connect, connect as you always have using Subtalklive.com. Which is the same as the link at the top of the index (that remains unchanged).
You can also connect via an IRC client as you always have, although I don't see much of a point of doing that tonight as the whole purpose of this specially scheduled chat is to test the new client.
Also, If you've bookmarked the version without the Namezero frame, you will have to change the url, the old one (chat.cjb.net/metrocard) will still work, but it won't be the new client (and I will not allow use of the old client, you will be booted, sorry).
Thanks to those who sent me the info. The Bus FAQ will be coming soon!
Among the tidbits- depots, bus fleet at each depot, lines, etc.
History of NYCT Bus
plus more tidbits
Does this mean you've received the package I sent? If there's anything else you need, and I can help, let me know :-)
I am asking for an employee of any of the private lines (we already have Queens Surface) and MaBSTOA to write a brief, non-commercialized, history of their company. Please forward to me off-site. I'll review and forward to Dave for addition to the site as part of the Bus FAQ which has now advanced from vaporware to being written!
Im not an employee of any of the privite lines,but i have a very ,very, close in with one of them,what do want written and ill see if i can get any information.
I passed by the yard on the way home from work yesterday. Since I last stopped there about 6-8 weeks ago, there have been some major changes in the equipment stored there. First, there are NO QSC buses at all, compared to 21 on my last visit. Second, there were only 3 JBL Flxible 870's, now there are 13. I guess they're being pulled---get your pics now., Third the two cTc Methanols are gone. Fourth, there is another Command RTS CNG with its back fried(near the Belmont Fryer). The Thomas CL-960 is still there. Command New Look Flxible (non-airconditioned) #793 now has both halves of its back window smashed and the back panel that covers the motor is gone exposing the engine to the elements.
Hopefully over the weekend, I'll update the inventory....I'll post when done and send it to anyone who wants it.
Please sent it too me,and which yard was this again.
I believe he is talking about Command Storage Yard. I will have to go there myself.........
B103#4961Mike
No I wasn't talking about Command.....I was talking about the DOT yard at Logan St and Flatlands Ave. Command is several blocks east at 12590 Flatlands.....Incidentally Varsity has a yard one block to the N/E of DOT and they have some former GBL and Command buses. If you are a Bus Fan and have a camera, three yards within walking distance of each other is a nice photo op.
Hart Bus
FYI, the Varsity yard is the old Command depot.
Mr t__:^)
Thurston, I guess that means that Command is now in their third location - 1. Strickland Ave, Mill Basin, when they took over Pioneer.- 2. Varsity Yard (Fountain/Wortman) and now 3. 12590 Flatlands.
There were quite a few 2** Queens Surface buses, including two 280 at Nimco Shredding about two weeks ago. They were also cutting the engine out of NYCTA 4007 and there was a 22** with a QV sticker series being fed by payloader into the baler. Truly amazing to see what they can do to a used bus.
More WMATA Orion VIs
Keep seeing those Orion VIs -- today I saw 26XX (?) on the H4 route crossing upper Connecticut Avenue.
Has anyone ridden in these yet? I guess my main question is do they have an elevated platform for the driver like the Orion II?
Also, is that an LED or flipdot sign? I didn't get close enough to see -- very tall front signboard, since the bus floor is so low.
Chris
I haven't actually noticed, but they probably do, since low floor buses are like that. I have ridden a NABI low floor bus in miami and it was like that.
Does anyone know the Platform locations for each Bus Operator ...which Bus route stops at which Platform location (B1,B3 ,,etc)
Thank you
Steve
Platform A
Bergen Avenue Bus
NJT Route 1 Newark Bound
NJT Route 80 Gates Avenue Bound
NJT Route 87 Gates Avenue Bound
Central Ave Bus, Garfield Avenue Bound
Community Van Lines
Platform B
M & W 440 Shopper
M & W Society Hill/Jo Sq. Line
L & G 5/6 Hoboken Bound
NJT Route 2 To Secaucus
NJT Route 88 To North Bergen
NJT Route 125 To New York
Platform C
NJT Route 84 To North Bergen
NJT Route 86 To North Bergen
NJT Route 319 To Toms River
NJT Route 1 To Jersey City
NJT Route 87 To Hoboken
NJT Route 80 To Exchange Place
Platform D
G & L Route 3 To City Line
G & L Route 16 To Newport Center Mall
Trans-Hudson To Bayonne
Care Free Route 22 To Bloomfield
Hope this helps you out.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Thank you
Route 88 uses NJT equipment, but it's operated by Academy Bus Lines. My brother-in-law drives that route.
B61 Leonard
I believe Central Avenue Bus, northbound, also leaves from Platform D. Also, NJT Route 1 To Jersey City on Platform C probably just terminates there; it doesn't go any further than Journal Square. A separate branch from Newark goes to Exchange Place.
Well I wanted to get to JFK airport to check out the construction, and buses there. I took the N21, then the N25, then the Q46 at LIJ to Union Turnpike. I know the Q46 can be busy, but the RTS bus was pretty empty, and nice and cool (there wasn't much A/C on the two LI buses).
The trip was pretty quick, and I got the Q10 to JFK Airport. Now everybody says how bad Green Lines are, but the Orion I got on was clean and fast, and the A/C was nice and cold. It sounds like Green Orions are using the new series 50, and boy how they fly! They seemed faster than even the 6XXX batches of Orion buses NYCT got.
The Q10 goes through some nice neighborhoods, like Kew Gardens and Woodhaven. It was pretty fast too, I made the trip to JFK in under a half-hour. I liked the vinyl seats and the bus rode very smooth.
I got off at Terminal One, which is very nice with a food court and big atruim, looks brand new.
Then I rode on the PA bus to terminal 4E (international). It was a New Flyer low floor, and it ran pretty good. Only thing is it was PACKED.
Had to squeeze on in next to some beautiful flight attendents from Hong Kong.
At 4E I could see work progressing on the new shopping mall.
I waited and waited for the JFK Flyer back to Nassau. After 20 minutes I decided waiting for a crappy Thomas bus with no A/C wasn't worth it, and I had a SLOW ride on a Q3 to Jamaica where I got the N22. It looked like one of the new RTS's, the upholstered seats were nice and comfy and the A/C was nice and cold.
I don't know why they drive so slow on there, since there weren't alot of people on the bus. I guess to keep spacing.
I took the N22 back from Jamaica and it was Gillig #530 (it seems these are unavoidable on the N22) of course windows were wide open (no A/C) and the bus crawled the whole way, and felt like it was falling apart (felt like a third world bus).
Also had another bus (Orion CNG 234 on N25) with no A/C and it made a horrible grumbling sound.
I think LI Bus is worse than the worst private bus operators in NYC!!
I actually took my stopwatch to see how long it would take to get to JFK (Terminal 9) through two different ways:
1: Q39 to M to L to A to Shuttle Bus (7/7/2000)
2: Q60 to Q10 (7/8/2000)
Route 1: 1:22:39
Q39 (50 Av to Putnam Av): 19:26
M (Forest Av to Wyckoff Av): 4:33
L (Myrtle Av to B'way Jct.): 12:12
A (B'way-ENY to Howard Beach): 25:36
Shuttle Bus (Howard Beach Station to Terminal 9): 20:50
Route 2: 1:52:19
Q60 (48 St to 80 Road): 1:05:01
Q10 (Queens Blvd to Terminal 9): 47:18
These times were initally started with payment of fare.
Sometimes, the ride is longer than it seems.
The B13 might be a shortcut to the A at Euclid, or the B-15 on Linden, but it doesn't run that often (brought
Need history on this bus, I saw Downtown with Human Administration sign on the front.
1. Is it one of the first Orion CNG?
2. Is it a former Command bus?
Any more info will be helpful.......
B46#8317Mike
i believe you are right on both counts. it is an orion 2 which command tested on their express routes at least ten years ago.they aew now used for hra employees i believe.
Actually it is an Orion 1(the Orion 2's is 700-705 at LIBus)and I also remember seeing them alot mainly on the BM1 and the BQM1
901 and 902 were first used on the B-103. After a few years Command started using them on the express routes. Many drivers did not like these buses saying they were slow and the gas petal was very hard to push down. These buses were abused once Varsity got their hands on them. I believe 901 and 902 are 1987 Orion Is.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky / transitworld.org
Congratulations to heypaul, the club he founded...greyhound through express...is now the largest club of its kind on Yahoo.
GREYHOUND THROUGH EXPRESS on YAHOO
Peace,
ANDEE
DOG gone it, he sure has. The heypaul virus/HPS is spreading/infecting other sites ... look out World !
Mr t__:^)
HPS, heypaul syndrone, is spreading rapidly throughout several transportation related internet sites...once infected, victims find heypaul's sorry excuse for humor irrestible... they usually die laughing at how stupid heypaul is...
[once infected, victims find heypaul's sorry excuse for humor irrestible... they usually die laughing at how stupid heypaul is...]
Now you know that's not exactly true ... I can think of at least one SubTalker who doesn't consider your humor "irrestible", although it appears that he recently DOES seem to be showing signs of HPS.
Mr t__:^)
This morning, MCI Bus 2080 was inside of Ulmer Park Depot. The folks at Ulmer Park will be trained over the next few weeks on the bus. According to the people at the depot, 70 MCI's will be headed there. I'm not sure of which ones will be however, or when they will start arriving.
Shaun
Meanwhile, back in the ghetto, 1746, 1747, 1752, 1755 and 1844 toil away along Merrick and Linden Blvds. What is wrong with this picture?
Lest we forget about those bogus 1984 conversions, 3572-3573 and 3575, and those B.S. 1985 coaches that were abused on Staten Island. And that's just at Jamaica depot! You don't want me to talk about QV now....they're even worse!!
Posted by Q5Merrick on Fri Aug 25 11:19:07 2000, in response to MCI Training at Ulmer Park, posted by BusMan9293 on Fri Aug 25 10:37:50 2000
"Meanwhile, back in the ghetto, 1746, 1747, 1752, 1755 and 1844 toil away along Merrick and Linden Blvds. What is wrong with this picture?"
I'm not sure. We have the same garbage 1700's floundering their way across Hillside Ave from Floral Park. Are you insinuating the TA is racist in their assignments of new buses? Remember, Jamaica received the first new RTS buses, long before we received them. I'm not sure when Flushing received their Orions... was that before or after Jamaica received the new RTS model?
The reason neither Jamaica nor QV has CNG is because of space limitations. Those buses must be fueled outdoors. We don't have the necessary room for the CNG pumps at this time. We barely have room for the fleet. As a matter of fact, our parking lot stored Jamaica buses over the last two weekends while paving was being done. Now, we've lost some of our lot due to the buses on the Bad Order line.
Still, I don't believe the MCIs can make it through the wash at JA or QV at present. At least, that's what I've heard....
(JAMAICA RECEIVED THE FIRST NEW RTS BUSES LONG BEFORE WE RECEIVED THEM) Oh come on! How long have you been on the job, Queens Village BO. The reason Jamica received the 8900's is because quite simply, WE WERE THE ONLY DEPOT IN THE ENTIRE SYSTEM THAT DID NOT HAVE ANY 8000'S PERIOD! Our newest buses were the 4500's. Everybody else was crusing in the 8000's or the Orions. They even tried to send the 8900's over to Q.V. at first, but, then shop steward Maurice Lewis started screaming, so they backed off that plan and sent them to us. But even then, they made us suffer and instead sent our 8900's down to Atlanta to help out for the Olympics. Let's face it. Jamica depot has always been treated as a step child depot. I don't have to tell you why. It's very obvious. Queens Village isn't treated much better either. SE Queens as a whole is treated like crap, along with the customers. Everybody on this web site should know why. So please don't be Naive. Jamica & Q.V. have the worst coaches in the city. Do you think that's a coincidence? Out of 17 coaches in Jamica, only 7 are new. 7 out of 17. What does that tell you? Q.V. has it even worse. Name 1 other depot that has that kind of ratio of old to new coaches. Just 1. I'll bet you can't. Why don't they send us some more 9200-9300 Nova Coaches? I'll tell you why. They don't want to upset their valuable customers in the rest of the city who are more likely to go to the polls on Election Day! BIG AL
BIG AL you said a mouthful there, and yes, the reason is very obvious. I came right out and said it earlier. JAM and QV which serve all of SE Queens are treated like they don't exist. Of JAM's 23 (not 17) Express coaches 7 are 1997 Novas, and out of QV's 20 coaches, 5 of them are 'new'. Hmmmm, I wonder why?
[JAM and QV which serve all of SE Queens are treated like they don't exist.]
I suspect emotions are hiding some of the facts. Wasn't QV the first depot to get buses from the two most recent Nova RTS orders (4900's and 9350's)? And they got a pretty big batch of the 8000's when they first came in. Compare that to the new transit buses Ulmer Park has gotten over the last decade. And other than the 6000 Orions, Staten Island usually doesn't fare well in getting new transit buses.
I know how you feel Big Al. 126th St gets a lot of MaBSTOA rejects especially from Hudson Pier which has some of the worst maintenance in the system. Being the only TA depot in an OA division we know what being a stepchild is all about. Most of our 4000's have in excess of 300,000 miles on them. It's a credit to our maintenance department that these old dogs are still in service. Probably the only reason we got the 9000's in 1996 and the 5000's in 1998 was because our 1600's and 3000's were shot. It seems that MaBSTOA and Staten Island get the newest equipment. MaBSTOA probably because of the TWU being run by mostly ex OA people. Staten Island because it's the mayors favorite borough.
For years Staten Island was last in line when it came to receiving new buses, and the S.I. fleet was the oldest. This time around we were first in line. Politics can cut both ways. The S.I. expresses are the longest routes in the city in terms of length and run time. We recieved the first express Orions in 1993 only after the Blitz rebuilds were scrapped after one nearly disintegrated on the Gowanus. Our RTS coaches were fume-filled rattletraps that could barely make it across the Verrazano without the driver shutting down the air-conditioning to give the engine more power. All that for a premium fare. The MCI coaches were ordered only after S.I. elected officials pushed for the better equipment. It wasn't like the MTA did it out of the goodness of their hearts.
Your point is well taken. The MTA never does anything out of the goodness of their hearts. It's a shame everything has to be politically motivated but it's the reality of life in NYC. Maybe the politicians in Southeast Queens will follow the politicians on Staten Island's lead and push for newer buses for their constituents.
I hate to say it, but the people in SE Queens are partially to blame also. Nobody ever complains or writes letters. They just get on, complain to the operator and deal with this crap. The Ta sends the garbage over hear because they know they can get away with it, and the politicians know that the Minorities don't "turn out the vote" the way the other ethnic groups do. I'm always pushing my friends to go vote on Election day because alot of them tell me things like, "I've got other things to do", "I don't feel like it" and so on. I was looking at Ulmer Parks roster earlier. Specifically at their coaches. They have 84 Nova coaches and about 10 old RTS coaches. Now I want to see anyone argue with me when I say race doesn't play a factor in the way new buses are assigned. Why wasn't some more of those 84 Nova coaches sent over to Jam & QV? I'm waiting for an answer. BIG AL
> They have 84 Nova coaches and about 10 old RTS coaches. Now I want to see anyone argue with me when I say race doesn't play a factor in the way new buses are assigned. Why wasn't some more of those 84 Nova coaches sent over to Jam & QV? I'm waiting for an answer.<
To correct you, Ulmer Park has 40 old RTS Coaches -- I'm including the 3800s, 4800s and 7000s. They're all garbage. Queens can have them in exchange for the 1700s. They're better.
Now, I'm not going to say that race is not a factor in the bus assignments, personally I don't think so with the amount of new busses East New York gets (97 5000s, 62 8900s & 33 8600s). However, I do believe that the amount of people the lines in the depot carry have a major part in the decisions. If you were to look at any x27 or x28 each morning, you'll see that those busses are packed to the doors and many people are left waiting at the stops toward the end of the line. Want proof? Ask any person that lives in Bay Ridge or Dyker Hts Brooklyn what they have to go through each morning. Many former subway riders now ride the express busses in SW Brooklyn since the fare decreased. Busses run every 2-3 minutes for a full hour on each line. This is a major reason, I believe, why Ulmer Park is getting these 70 MCI's first.
You don't know that the 84 NOVA coaches will not be sent your way. Nothing has happened yet. The TA changes its plans about as fast as the weather changes.
In addition, I'm a little tired of how people say that Queens Village and Jamaica have all the crap. Not so long ago, Ulmer Park was the junkyard for busses in NYC. We had the oldest coaches (1700s & 1800s - yes I know the Queens depots had them too), the oldest Local busses (all 3000s and 4000s) and all used and rundown equiptment. I don't think we've ever recieved "NEW" Equiptment. The Local 9000s were used in Atlanta for the olympics before they were sent to us (They had over 4000 miles already!) The 9200 coaches were used in Staten Island for a year before they were sent to us. The 5000s were used in the Bronx for about a year before they were sent to us. And if Trevor Logan is right, we will be getting "Used MCI's." The only "NEW" busses we've recieved in a long time is 9285-9344.
This is just my opinion - I've certainly been wrong before.
Shaun
According to my info the TA is always pissed at Ulmer Park due to the hidieous attitudes of the union reps that demand ridiculous fantasies.
This is the reason ENY recived the 5000s as opposed to UP as UP demanded the drivers all be trained on the "New Busses" which were no diffrent than the 9000s before them.
So I dont blame the TA for giving them the hand me downs.
I am not a union slammer and I am an ATU represented employee for the record.
Blue
This is all going to change if and when the Union might get voted out this year. I meet the person that is running agance him this year. If I was still at Ulmer Park I would vote for him. I think the most drivers at Ulmer Park are pissed off at him. He only dose things for people in his Click. At Jackie Gleason there are about 10 or 15
X-Ulmer Park drivers who won't go back untill the union is change hopefuly this year. I my self inclead.
Robert
P.S. MCI 2080 is sitting in Ulmer Park right won. The driver are learning the Bus Lift and other thing right won. They will started to lean to drive the them maybe next week. Also 80 are coming to Ulmer Park not 70.
You can cast the issue in racial terms if that makes you feel better. But then you'd also have to agree to the equally ridiculous premise that race played a factor during all the years that S.I. received the other boroughs cast-offs, which of course it did not. Race or ethnicity has nothing to do with what equipment S.E. Queens is receiving. S.I. elected officials and union leaders (including people who couldn't stand each other) fought together on the over-the-road equipment issue. In fact no borough would be getting over-the-road coaches if Staten Islanders hadn't shown the MTA that the equipment was appropriate for premium fare express service. The real problem is that the MTA is a dense unaccountable organization. They only understand heavy amounts of ploitical pressure, and even then they can tell you to take a hike.
I used to have a desktop wallpaper pic of bus 1855 on the X27. Obviously TA doesn't care what they put out there either.
I don't cast racial issues because it makes me feel better. I cast issues based on facts which presently exist. Even if Ulmer Park does have 40 old RTS coaches, that still leaves 66% Nova coaches. So why should they and other depots in the city have that high percent, yet Jam & QV only have about 25% Nova coaches. And I can't beleive some people are talking about the garbage Ulmer Park, Yukon and Castleton had in the past. When they had this so-called garbage, what do you think Jamaica had? Even worse garbage. I remember several years ago when Staten Island had mostly Orions. We in Jam & QV were still driving 2200's like it wasn't going out of style. So somebody please tell me what year it was that Jamaica had a higher ratio of new buses than the 3 depots I mentioned above. I'm still waiting for an answer. Big Al
Big Al, the point is that I don't think the MTA sits around and doles out buses based on the ethnic make-up of communities. As others have noted here regarding express service, passenger load has more to do with equipment assignment than anything else. In the specific case of S.I. the poulation is growing, there is no subway service into Manhattan. The near-retirement RTS express coaches were packed with standees. We have a limited road network and the MCIs (combined with the $3 express fare) have gotten people out of their cars and into the buses. And with all that even the MCIs are entering and leaving Manhattan with standees.
I beg to differ with you Dan. We had the same problem with our express runs here in Queens also, specifically on the X64. It was jammed with people and transit was getting letters to add more service(one of the few times the people wrote letters.) They added the service by supplying older buses, which is my point. If you look at Jamaica's roster, you will see 24 Express buses total. That's the most they ever had. Your point is that since the lines were heavy, that's where they put the new buses. My point is since the lines are heavy, you only need to add buses, period. New or old, it doesn't matter. They hold pretty much the same amount. I'm not faulting TA for sending MCI's to S.I. I know about the traffic problem and it probably was a good idea. The MCI's are very nice and they got alot of people off the road in S.I. My gripe is transit has a history of sending the old buses to the Queens in greater numbers than the other boroughs and I would like to know why. To put it simply, when other boroughs lines are overcrowded, they get additional buses which most likely will be newer than S.E.Queens which will get the older buses. I see no logical reason for that. With the RTS's, the ratio of new buses to old buses should be the same throughout the entire city. Everybody should have the same chance of riding decent new equipment. It's only fair and does not show any favortism. BIG AL
They should send 1 MCI to Jamaica, QV and CS just as a test to see if MCI's can fit their accomodations. If UP can do it, Queens can too.
X17#1894Gary
As I described in a previous post the MTA did not even want to go with over-the-road coaches on S.I. (or anywhere) until the issue was raised by local officials here on S.I. That's why the MCIs are at Yukon and Castleton. We specifically requested over-the-road buses for the 'x' routes here. They replaced old RTSs that were due to be retired. So maybe the folks in Queens should get a hold of their elected reps and do the same.
I broke the express assignments down for you guys last week. The fact of the matter is that UP has 85 Nova coaches (9200-9300's)out of a total of 129 express buses while JAM and QV combine for only 12 Novas out of 44 total assigned express buses. Percentage wise, UP is 66% Nova, while JAM and QV combine for 27%. If that isn't an uneven distribution, then I don't know what is. Customers in Queens pay the same fare as customers in Bay Ridge, why should they have to ride inferior equipment?
Mark
Thank you very much. I couldn't have said it better. BIG AL
I broke the express assignments down for you guys last week. Here it is again! The fact of the matter is that UP has 85 Nova coaches (9200-9300's)out of a total of 129 express buses while JAM and QV combine for only 12 Novas out of 44 total assigned express buses. Percentage wise, UP is 66% Nova, while JAM and QV combine for 27%. Conversely, 34% of UP's express fleet is 15 years of age or older, while JAM and QV have 73% of their fleet over 15 years old. The numbers are the numbers, guys. If that isn't an uneven distribution, then I don't know what is. Customers in Queens pay the same fare as customers in Bay Ridge, why should they have to ride inferior equipment?
Mark
There are 3 times as many express runs at Ulmer Park compared to Jamaica and Queens Village. The x27 and x28 rank 2nd and 3rd in the amount of service provided each day out of all the express lines at NYCT, nearly the same amount as the x1 in Staten Island. The headways are around 1-2 minutes during rush hour in the morning. The x27 and the x28 carry many many more people than the Queens lines all put together. We routinely run out of express busses all together in the morning and need to wait for pullins to continue service.
I believe (and Staten Island fans will definitely disagree with me) that Ulmer Park should have recieved a small amount of MCI's when the original shipment came in (~20). The amout of people riding the lines certainly warranted bringing in the bus.
Another point: what is the in vehicle mileage for your express runs? Do you have to make 2 trips with the busses in the morning? 3? AT UP, it is not uncommon at all for drivers to have to make 2 trips in with the bus into Manhattan in the morning and another one out in service. That's 3 trips for one rush hour not counting the afternoon trips they have to make (usually at least 1, most runs likely 2). Don't forget about the extra x25 trips that some runs need to make as well.
Jamaica and Queens Village will definitely be getting some more NOVA coaches or Orion Coaches once UP recieves some MCI's. I know, they're not brand new, but neither are the MCI's were supposed to be getting from Staten Island.
Shaun
i tried e mail to no avail. could you tell me who is giving training. it is not a b/o from si is it.
Sorry Bout the e-mail; typed the wrong address.
I'm not sure who is training yet, but I'll find out and post it when I do. For the Staten Island guys, how were you trained when the MCI's originally came in? I'm guessing that it will be the same way.
I would really laugh if it was a b/o from Staten Island. It shouldn't suprise me though.
Shaun
training was done by union favorites. management played no part. you get one hours pay to drive bus 5 blocks and have wheelchair explained which is a nightmare of moving seats. since noone at up is qualified im wondering if si union is involved here.
According to past history, what will most likely happen is this. The first buses to leave Ulmer Park will not be the Novas, but rather the old RTS coaches, since the oldest buses are always the ones to leave first. Those will come into Jam & QV to replace the 1700's and the worst 3000's we have. The Nova's will wind up going someplace else other than Queens. Come on guys. This is the way it's always been and I'm willing to bet a pay check it's going to happen again. Jam & QV will get jerked as usual. BIG AL
Hey, Busman. The new Nova expresses only seat 39. The old express buses seat something like 42. So since you have more riders and more novas, you have more standees.
Yes, but your picking up somewhere in the range of 50+ people on trips -- that's over capacity for both busses. And I thought that the Nova Expresses sat even less than 39, but I'm not sure though.
Shaun
So now explain if both JAM, QV, and UP do practically the same amount of work, why UP gets the better buses.
Well said Busman, and you are 100% correct. However, I am very much aware of the fact that the X27/28/29 carry far more customers than the X63/64/68. My only point is simply to point out the disparity regarding the UP and Queens Division express coaches.
Your point, though, is well taken.
Mark
Mark, you and Big Al have conveniently not provided us the numbers regarding transit buses (versus express buses) at Jamaica and Ulmer Park. They tell a different story. Based on the UTC 8/28/00 roster, Ulmer Park has 59 buses that are 1996 or newer (47% of fleet) and 69 buses 1990 or older (53% of fleet). In Jamaica, there are 108 buses that are 1996 or newer (66% of fleet) and 57 buses 1990 or older (34% of fleet). The fact that 25 of Ulmer's older buses are remans is clearly offset by the fact they only recently got 25 of the 1999 Novas second-hand from the Bronx. It looks to me like the TA favors Jamaica over Ulmer Park when it comes to transit buses. As you would say, "Customers in Bay Ridge pay the same fare as customers in Queens, why should they have to ride inferior equipment."
Local bus wise, I'll admit we are up to par with the other depots in terms of new local buses. All our comments have been centered on the Express buses which are extremely disproportionate in terms of the old bus to new bus ratio. Only last year Jamaica caught up with the other depots in terms of new local buses mainly because we needed buses added to our fleet because of the increase in ridership when intermodal service began. SE Queens had the largest increase in ridership in the whole city. However we also had a very high old bus ratio with many 3200's and 3900's which were pulled and replaced by the 9500's and 5100's. QV depot got jerked big time on this since they still have most of the 3900's in existance. However, they do not have many 4000's. When Ulmer Park gets in another shipment of new local buses, I'm sure the numbers will reflect in their favor again. BIG AL
When you had the 2200s, SI had the last of the 7000 and 9000 series Flxibles, and the 5000 series new looks. SI got the first orions after the drive shaft on one of the 5000s self-destructed, and shot itself through the floor of the bus on the Gowanus.
-Hank
Then how can you explain the fact that the new look 5000's(former 4300-8000's fishbowls)lasted til 1994/95 in Brooklyn and Queens.Answer better maintainance at the depots.Staten Island in a nutshell treats there buses like garbage.The perfect example is 631-680 (formerly YUK now CS).
I need to clarify. They were in LOCAL service until the 8000 series RTS came on-line. The 7000s and 9000s went out after the Orions came in in 1993. The 5000s left express service in late 1992.
-Hank
Those 5000's Blitz in Queens lasted because they were used locally. The 5000's in SI were used as ovcer the road coaches and i dont think they were reallybuilt for that - hence the accidents on the Gowanus that preceded their demise from service.
But any bus used by NYCT in express service exclusively gets much much less total mileage than a bus used for local service.
Sure, they were built for express service. The Blitz express buses were either built by GM as express buses, or converted soon after delivery.
David
Actually, the incident was detwrmined to be caused by a manufacturers defect in the axle. In fact, the same defect showed up in som of the RTS express buses in service as well.
And what part of express bus service would cause this?
-Hank
Did you think it could possibly be that there exists a problem in the way the passengers treat the equipment in those areas?
-Hank
Al - I remember when JAM 8900's arrived from Atlanta too. They were sort of beat up when they arrived but JAM has them looking good now.
Wayne
Hey, until recently, Staten Island had all the 'crap' buses in the city. And as per the US census, SI is the whitest of the outer boros.
-Hank
My fellow mates at schedules can say what they want, but ridership has been sharply increasing on the X63 and X64 routes over the last few years. Witness the increase in runs and express coach requirements at JAM. So, they cannot cite a lack of ridership for their decision not to put MCI's in Queens.
Another lame excuse is that the MCI's cannot fit in JAM. If thats the case, do whatever is necessary to make them fit. Ulmer Park wasn't exactly built to house MCI's either. If modifying JAM is too costly, then move the two routes over to QV. The pull-in/pull-out distances are about the same (if not shorter--especially for the X64), and I know that with a little modification, QV can house MCI's. As far as I'm concerned Trevor is right in calling the 102DL3's "too good for the ghetto".
You know what? I can't blame the TA for not wanting my people on their precious MCI's. We get on those buses and right away, we think its a church outing or something. There'd be fried chicken bones on the floor, and Kool-Aid stains all on the upholstery. They'd be taking up collections to tip the driver, singing gospel songs en-route and all kinds of nonsense. You know how we get dowm!! :)
Go on and keep the X63 and X64 MCI free! Sure they'd probably be the only routes in the city without MCI's when its all said and done, but who cares--the ridership is 99% black anyway! The X51 and X68 will probably go MCI soon. Even the do-nothing X90/92 and the M98 will probably get them. But they will attempt to appease SE Queens by putting the 9200-9300 RTS coaches on the X63 and X64. It'll work too because no one will complain about it.
Actually the RTS 9200 & 9300 series express coaches are very comfortable. The MTA Capital Plan indicates the purchasing of 356 more MCI-type over-the-road buses for all of the express routes. Go to the link below, then scroll down a bit. It's in the 2nd paragraph following Table 4.
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/mta/cap2000-2004-nyct.htm
Supposedly more MCI 102DL3's are already on order for Yukon & Castleton. Where is NYCT going to store them? Both depots are maxed out, with Yukon parking many outside along Forest Hill Road.
Order of operation! This is what it will look like when the smoke clears from this new 2000 MCI 102-DL3SS Cruiser Order:
Yukon:
126 of the Year 2000 MCI DL3SS Cruiser
78 of the Year 1999 MCI DL3SS Cruisers
25 of the Year 1998 MCI DL3SS Cruisers
Castleton:
44 of the Year 2000 MCI DL3SS Cruisers
22 of the Year 1999 MCI DL3SS Cruisers
6 of the Year 1998 MCI DL3SS Cruisers
Ulmer Park:
70 of the Year 1998 MCI DL3SS Cruisers
(The 1988 TMC RTS-06 "Suburban Conversions" will be converted back to transit buses)
The remaining 79 Year 1998 MCI DL3SS Cruisers will be spread evenly amung Queens Village and Jamaica. Some of those 92xx and 93xx NovaBUS RTS-06 will be moved to Quill to replace the remaining 38xx GMC RTS-04 Suburbans that they have.
Hope this information helps all!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Will the remaining Orion express buses be transferred off S.I. once Yukon & Castleton reach their full compliment of 301 MCIs. I still see a few Orions expresses running on Hylan Blvd.
We'll see about that Trevor. I hope you're right!
<>
79 MCIs split evenly through QV and JAM??? Sounds like theyre planning 4 minute headways on the 68x and run it 24 hours or something.
They only about 15 max.
or perhaps some of these 79 will go to casey for the 51x???
I just got a slighty different plan about to MCI movements.....It's only a slight change from what I previously posted:
Instead of sending 79 MCI to be distributed amung QV & JAM, The Orions from Staten Island will be moved to QV & JAM instead and the 79 MCI will stay on SI, so as of right now only UP will recieve MCI Cruisers
Sorry QV & JAM fans, you about to get some crap to replace crap!
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
I thought the plan was for UP to get an MCI/Orion mix while the 9200-9300 coaches that UP currently has will go to QV and Jamaica. It seems a little more logical, since QV and Jamaica are both 100% RTS depots now. Think about, no need to convert lifts and washes in two depots, only one. Then again, this is the TA we're talking about.
Getting crap to replace crap....does that mean there are more 3800's around that no one has told us about?
In the crap statement I was referring to the 1993 Orion V Suburbans as to crap, they aren't the best things going right now, they are damn slow, I've seen 38xx series RTS burn the hell out of the Orions on the BQE, it's a sad sight!
In any case, REMEBER, the TA does not stand for common sense!
Trevor
I agree with you there one the '93 Orions. I've been on fully loaded '82 RTS's that have put the hurt on those Orions, and that's not saying much for the Orion's, is it?
Please, please, please, someone in the infinite wisdom of the TA hierarchy send more 9200-9300 coaches to Queens.
"Actually the RTS 9200 & 9300 series express coaches are very comfortable."
I'll have to agree with you on that one.
I've ridden on those, and sat in the DL3's, and they actually seem softer!
Although, going off subject a bit, the 102A3'S were the softest of them all.
That first paragraph had me in stitches....damm that was funny.
OK...the plan is that eventually all Express Routes were to go to "Over The Road" coaches. They certainly will be a treat after riding the 1982 RTS's for so long.
One can safely assume though that they will not be newly delivered MCI's. Just look at how QV, the depot with the best maintenance record in the city fared when the 9200's came along. Exactly three coaches were assigned at last count. As a matter of fact, one would swear that they even took on a few more 1700's. And don't even get me started about those 3800's; I think at this point I'd rather be on a 1700 than one of those.
The reality is that the 9200-9300 Nova's will make their way to Jamaica and Queens Village. Someone in the TA Ivory Tower will justify it. I only hope they see to adding a few more rund on each line, since those coaches will seat 39, as opposed to 42 that the 1700/3800's hold.
Last year I had an opportunity to ride to SI to visit a friend. I marveled at the MCI's ride and accomodation. In speaking to the operator, I mentioned I lived in Queens and we still had the 1700's. His reply was: "You mean they didn't push those into the water after we were done with them?"
IF the MCIs were to ever appear at JAM, could those 45 footers make those turns on those residential streets in Rosedale at the end of the 63???
I love reading this stuff.
If only you NYC boys knew what goes on here at LAMTA.
You all would run a screaming!
Blue
Is that the reason why the TA wont extend the E train down Merrick Blvd? When it arrives @ JC, there will chicken bones all over the place??????
BM34x
They don't extend it because they'd have to build a new, expensive tunnel. And they don't want to spend that money anywhere in Queens except the LIRR, if they can't find a way out of it.
-Hank
Anybody have a listing of how many runs on each queens line for the fall pick?? (school open sked)
What is CS (the X51 to exact ) going to end up with afetr all the reallocation the SI exp coaches is completed.(If we get any thing let us get at least a few of the CAS 600 exp Orions (611-630).We have the rest of the 600's already except the JG cng's
What is CS (the X51 to exact ) going to end up with after all the reallocation the SI exp coaches is completed.(If we get any thing let us get at least a few of the CAS 600 exp Orions (611-630).We have the rest of the 600's already except the JG cng's
The mouse has no plans to do away with the buses. Asked a couple of drivers and at the hotel and they never heard of the monorail being extened or light rail taking over. Did notice what might be a ex nycta rts running for disney now (saw it one time fast) had the blue stripe and front emergency lights. Didnt see a number.
I have recently been to Disney World. While I enjoyed the RTS busses, I have not saw one with the front emergency lights. I am glad that Disney will keep the buses. I hope they will never replace the RTS buses. Monorail expansion would be cost prohibitive and the tracks would create an ugly sight.
That ex NYCTA RTS is not part of the Disney Fleet, but a shuttle from a hotel to the park.
It's nice that Disney still has the GMC RTSs, and they keep them looking new. However, once of my friends who only rides those buses other than school buses thinks that all buses are so uncomfortable, since the disney bus seats are so hard, and since they are so old. Did anyone notice that the rear bumpers sort of sag, or are all of them suppose to be like that?
The hard seats are vandal-proof, plus they won't wear out with the heavy usage that most transit buses get.
Also, most RTS rear bumpers sag -- especially after the bus has been rear-ended once or twice....
Just came back from there today. The buses are either GMC, TMC or Nova. The ones that appear to be TMC/Novas have a 6v92 engine in them just like the GMC Buses. Some Disney Buses look like QS Buses. They have Orange Stripes on the sides and rear. But yet they appear to be like Green Lines cause they have a dark green stripe on the front. BTW: All I saw at DisneyWorld were either 2700s, 4700s or 4800s. Does anybody have the rosters of the Buses at Disney?
R36Gary
PS- It's great to be back in NYC!
I've posted that roster of WDW buses on here a couple times already....you might wanna look back using the search functions.
I was in WDW back in June and I must say those old GMC RTS's are quite fast. Although the 1982/83 models sport 6V-71N engines, they had some giddyup on them. What a difference no governor makes. :)
Mark
According to GMC production records, ALL of WDW Transportation Systems RTS buses have 6V92 engines.
A diesel engines CANNOT operate without a governor. It will race itself to death -- will throw piston connecting rods, valves, etc.
Most likely, the throttle delay has been removed or modified on the buses that are fast. Buses usually come with a throttle delay to avoid both smoke and tossing passengers with jack-rabbit starts.
The throttle delay only has an effect on acceleration as the name implies.
As far as the speed you are correct that the bus needs a governor but if it is mechanical its adjustable to allow the engine to top out at a higher RPM which will equate to more road speed.
Newer vehicles use onboard computers (DDEC in 6V92's) to govern the engine speed but these too are programable
Are the Disney busses 6v92N, or 6v92TA? I thought there were 6v92TA's. Also note that some 4800's have Series 50 engines.
One more thing I have to ask. Where can I get access to production records for GMC and TMC RTS busses?
That can be gooten at www.omot.org-goto the non frames set up for bus production list
That can be gotten at www.omot.org-goto the non frames set up for bus production list
The Ohio Museum of Transportation site has some of the records listed, but not in the detail of the production records I get directly from the manufacturers through a "source".
The OMOT site is: http://www.omot.org
I have discovered that RTS production site recently. I found the list to be incomplete and not all information is accurate. For example, the production list Miami-Dade Transit was listed as a 6v92TA bus, when actually it was 6v71 according to info from a bus roster at geocities.com/motorcity..... I saw Boston's transit bus list and it was listed as 6v71TA, while production list had it at 6v71.
The information is sometimes so conflicting, that I cannot tell what the story is. Since I do not work at a transit company, or Detroit Diesel, or bus company, it is more painstacking and rough guesswork to sort out the correct from wrong information. I am a amateur bus enthusiast and I lost interest sometimes due to some incorrect information, conflicts, and lost hope. In fact, I remember a post where people were arguing which engine Grumman 870 has here in the city. Some people argued they were 8v71 (which is true for Avenue B and those buses were eventually released into the city). Others said it was 6v71 (which I believe is true because I remember riding on one back in the early 80's)
With RTS, sometimes I refer to 6v71's as 6v71TA's because 6v71's on RTS sound different than 6v71 on GM New Looks, or even Flxible New Look for that matter. Chances are I was wrong about that!!! I asked recently about early RTS's and they said it was 71N's. I remember asking last year the same question last yeat and I swore someone said 71TA. I asked again recently because I lost the post as archives can't go back to last year.
Question, when transit companies order a 6v71 RTS, can that option the bus with a turbo and aftercooler? On 6v92TA busses, can companies request naturally aspirated verions of the engine?
Again, I went to that site and I would like to thank you for your assistance. If you have a "more complete" production record Steve, can you please scan it and e-mail me at gtuniverse@aol.com, or post it on the board. You are perfectly welcome to omit the source and other info since I do not need, or want that. Thank you very much for taking the time to read this.
The problem with many bus production record "sources" is that many of them are put together by bus enthusiasts such as you and me, and the detail information, such as engine specifics, isn't really documented to begin with. I've seen some bus fans list the sort of stuff you are interested in, such as engine specifics, just by the sound they thought they heard!
While I never have seen the breakdown of the 17-digit VIN-numbers, those usually give the clue as to exactly what the engine type is; I say "usually" as some manufacturers use different codings within the VIN-numbers to denote different details. I am not sure if this is done on the RTS buses -- I do have the lists right from the builders but have never bothered to try and decipher the codings. I do know that MCI uses one single alphabetic digit within the VIN-number to specify engine type (with one other digit each to indicate bus model, air brakes, highway coach, etc.; Gillig uses two numberic digits within the VIN-numbers on their buses to denote engine types (with two alphabetic digits to denote bus length/width).
The production lists I have on the RTS buses come directly from the factory in Roswell, and the "source" specifically said they are NOT to be reproduced and distributed. They do have some owner insurance information next to each individual bus record, and I'm sure they consider this info very proprietary. I also receive such lists from a "source" at Gillig Corporation as well. While the GMC/TMC/Nova records indicate insurance info, delivery dates, etc. -- the Gillig records indicate engine/transmission/front & rear axle specifications, and projected manufactured/delivery dates of each bus (which never seem to turn out to be the actual dates for some strange reason).
"Thats Proprietary information" a phrase the GE guy at taylor yard will soon eat!
Ryder
"Question, when transit companies order a 6v71 RTS, can that option the bus with a turbo and aftercooler? On 6v92TA busses,
can companies request naturally aspirated verions of the engine?"
In that aspect, no they can't since the Detroit Diesel series ran as the following:
Normally Aspirated Engines: 6V-71N and 8V-71N
Turbo Charged/Aftercooled Engines: 6V-92TA and 8V-92TA and also later on there was a 6L-71TA.
I have obtained this information from Detroit Diesel documentation that I have here at home and they will send you information also by mail or you can view their website: www.detroitdiesel.com. The bus manufactures themselves have in their product guides which engines are available with the specs such as horsepower and other information that you are looking for.
Thanks for asking us all this question and I hope that myself and all of us for that matter have been helpful and continue to be!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
www.transitworld.org
Thank you so much for answering my question. I appreciate it and now I can sleep easy tonight. ;-)
Now that brings me to another question about 6L71TA. I never heard of this one before. I thought inlines were discontinued with the introduction of the New Look. What buses are they generally used for? It don't make sense to fit them in transits because in theory, the block is too long since it might be a inline configuration.
I will in the near future ask for brochures from DD. I will try e-mailing bus companies about past bus models. I cannot do it tonight.
I'm not too "up" on the engine specifications myself, but I, too, was quite surprised when I found out that there was an in-line version of the "92" series engine. There are some examples of these in Los Angeles MTA 2800-series Flxible Metros as well as the higher 700-series buses at North County Transit District in Oceanside, CA. Not sure of how many down there, as their 700 series came in four or five batches. There may be other agencies that specified this engine too, if I get around my Flxible production lists, as I remember, they were designated "6TL" in the engine coding of the bus models (e.g. 40102-6TL).
What drive did the RTS, and other companies two stroke used? I faintly remember reading, or hearing that New Looks had "V" drives. I am sure these special inline models had to used a special "V" drive to accomidate the long engines. Am I correct?
They're all 6V92TA's until the ones with the Detroit Series 50 engines started arriving.
I don't think we'll see too many more, if any at all, 6V92 deliveries as that particular engine cannot meet the newer particulate/emission standards as the Series 50 can.
Eye hope you rode something besides the RTS buses while you were there, or we're going to have to start worrying about you ;-)
Mr t
I didnt see any with orange or green stripes only a few with the old paint job of a brown stripe with a thin red stripe around it or all white and disney transport in big letters down the side.
I stopped by DOT yard in Brooklyn Wed. after work....Updated my inventory list of 6/7/2000. Anybody wants a copy can e-mail me. I have it on an Excel 97 worksheet. I will attach the file to an e-mail response. If you don't have the capacity to open the file, I'll make a copy and mail it to you if you give me a "snail-mail" address.
There are now B6LTD signs posted along Flatlands Ave in the Bensonhurst bound direction.......
B6#9077Mike
Can anyone supply info on the Latest extension to the VA ,,,a diagram would be appreciated .
Formerly,,the Buses Turned on Cropsey,,,pulled into the lower level of the VA,,then that was moved into a new loop area,,( West of the BiLevel Terminal)
Thanks
Steve
Just when I thought the MCI situation was the biggest joke going, here is a little more for you guys.
JAM has placed 1985 RTS 4217, and 1986 RTS's 4350, 4356, 4557 and 4574 on the scrap heap. To replace them, JAM received 5 even older and more beaten down buses from KB, with 4119 and 4127 being among them. Bus 4119 looks like it was towed to JAM!
QV fared a little better. They scrapped 1982 express coach 1741, 1983 RTS 3243, and 1985 RTS's 3820, 3913, 3934 and 3948. To replace the local buses they received 4045, 4146, and 4198 from KB. As for the two express coaches (1741 and 3820) they were replaced with...well...nothing! Of course, 4198 was on the lift in QV maintenance.
We here in Queens thank the TA for the help!!!
Isn't there a more morale boosting sight than a MaBSTOA reject bus? They're living proof that MaBSTOA Maintenance is an oxymoron. At 126th St, we recently received MaBSTOA gems 4164 & 4165. After spending about a week inside the depot the miracle workers that are our mechanics managed to get these two pieces of garbage in semi decent running condition. The life of a stepchild depot is a hard lot indeed.
Can anybody say.... Late Slip?¿ Or, what do they call it now.... a "Deviation Report". LOL!
I have to tell you..... if you've ever driven 3241 or 3249, neither of them compare to the BOMB that is 3243. That damn bus isn't allowed on the Q30. Why, you ask? Because after you pick up a swinging load at Jamaica/Homelawn-169, everyone has to get off so the bus can make it up the hill.
I think I'd rather have nothing, than have 1741!! Having 1741 is almost like having nothing anyway.
So now we're getting brand new 4100s huh? We have one.... 4115 I think... I've never driven it, but I have seen the miserable faces behind the wheel LOL!
Let's not forget, we here at QV still have that gleaming fleet of 7000 remans... ya know, old 2300 and 2600 MaBSTOA rejects that should have been scrapped (oh, thats right, they were) in the first place.
I dunno.... we are our own worst enemies. We could road call every bus if we wanted to... MDBF is probably why these pieces of shit are still on the road. There was a time a few years ago when all I got was 3200s on the Q88.... My new nickname was "Roadcall Lastname".
Does anyone know the status on the "new" Jamaica Depot? I'd heard there were plans for a site.... anyone have any info?
Someone on BusTalk said something about North Boundary Road in JFK airport. Seems a little far fetched though.
That someone was me. Last thing I heard was the plan is still on. But a date for the construction to begin is still unknown. However, since we're a step child depot, I'm sure there will be no rush. BIG AL
I personally like the old stuff, Hate those MCI's Just a opinion, I think that JAM, and QV are lucky to have some classic 17**, 18**, and 3000 series buses. I don't live in Queens, but often ride the express routes just to ride a 17**. If i see a new bus on the bus stop, I will let it go so i can see if something older is comming next. Bring back the Fishbowls, Grummans, FLx's, and 1981 RTS's. Those 7000's don't count. Only some wishfull thinking on my part.
You're going to get flamed to hell for that one. But just hearing about the soap opera that is TA just makes me want to fly to NYC to take a ride on those precious 17xx, 18xx, 3xxx, and the 40xx and 41xx craptacular gems.
"You're going to get flamed to hell for that one. But just hearing about the soap opera that is TA just makes me want to fly to NYC to take a ride on those precious 17xx, 18xx, 3xxx, and the 40xx and 41xx craptacular gems."
No rush, I'm sure we here at QV will have our usual assortment of 20 year-old buses for years to come.
Thoses 20 yrs buses wil out last the newer ones
Sorry to disagree on this one bud, but if you had to tolerate those 'well-past-their-prime' 1982 RTS's on a daily basis, you too would be crying out for something from even, say, the late 80's.
I'll give you a tip....when it's raining, try to hold out for 1767 on the X68 out of Queens Village. Sit in the front of the bus, maybe the bench that doesn't face forward, or maybe even the first forward facing set of seats. You'll not only get to ride the beloved old gal, but you'll get the soaking of our life. You won't have to travel to an amusement park for the water log ride. Guaranteed it will be an experience you'll never forget. Make sure you bring several changes of clothing, because that 'classic' is so slow, you'll have to get out and push her when she doesn't make the merge into the uphill HOV lane heading into the Midtown Tunnel.
Stengals 6xxx Orions are having problems too. I was on 6132 the other day. It was kinda warm, because the A/C wasn't staying on. Also the stop bell was malfunctioning, it wasn't lighting up, and at times it wasn't even working.
Didn't sound too good either, the new Orion (diesels) make this wierd
sound upon slowing down. Perhaps it has to do with the regenerative braking, but it sounds alot better on the CNG's.
How is NYCT doing with those new Orions? I've seen Yukon having some problems with them.
Also they don't seem much faster than the older Orions. I had a 200 series on the Q44 with the 6V-92 engine and it ran better than 6132!
The 6V-92's Stengal has sound alot better than ours at LI Bus, it's too bad they are going because they sounded like they were in good shape.
The 6000s seem to have interlock and kneeling problems the most.
Every bus I drive has kneeling problems. Sounds like nothing new to me. BIG AL p.s. Don't even get me started about the wheelchair lifts.
Al, if you're like me, you prefer the pre-8500 8000 series buses. They have the best of all worlds, and the lesser of all evils. The WC is relatively quick as opposed to the new design, yet not quite as fast as those older models on the 3200's. The kneel works well with most 8's but not as fast up and down as the 1700-3200 series. They are still "tight" for the most part, and the steering ratio seems almost as good as the older buses, although the smaller wheel allows (god forbid) one-hand turning smoother and quicker. The bus itself is quick (for the most part), and has decent AC. Of course no AC compares to the 9's and 49's, but those front door interlocks just annoy me to no end.
Just before it was scrapped, #3220 had a new engine install, and new AC modification. No interlock on either door, and she was tight. Gimme that bus over ANY bus today. If not, I request our fleet of 8300s.
You're right about these new buses not lasting long. Ive had 9000 and 4900 buses that rattle and crash louder than some 15 year olds we have lying around. Poor workmanship? Cheaper models? Bad roadways? Probably a combination of all three.
ALso, Jamaica at Boundary Road? What lines, if any, will be moved to QV when this takes place? I know Lewis (ATU President) has had his eyes on getting the Q30/Q31 for years. If they move JA there, he'll never get those lines. What would QV give up in return if this was to happen? Possibly the Q83 which is our southernmost line, but still not feasable for the new JA.
Seems like they will be adding more congestion to an already overly congested area! Imagine run-ons using the..... Van Wyck?¿ LOL!
Actually, when I worked in Flatbush depot 6 years ago, I drove the 8400's and to this day think those were the best buses I ever drove. Alot of other operators will say the 8600's are the best. I never drove one of those however late one night when I was on the B41 sitting under the Brooklyn Bridge at the last stop, I had an 8400 and an ENY operator had an 8600. We both took off at the same time in different lanes. (I won't say we were racing) The 8600 all but left me and my 8400 in the dust. When I worked at QV depot after Flatbush, I thought the 8300's were OK but remember them having very stiff accelerators. Also, the R/S electric mirror always had a lousy view no matter how you angled it. It does seem like those mirrors are more durable than the mirrors on the 8750 and newer buses as all of them are now broken off on the Jamaica 8900 series buses and replaced with regular manual mirrors. Most are gone also on the 9500's and now their disappearing on the 51's. When we move to Boundary road, I don't believe any lines are going to be switched around with other depots. I would imagine either Farmers blvd or Guy R Brewer blvd would be the regular run on/off route. BIG AL
Stengel, as mentioned a while ago, will be going RTS this fall, and has already gotten a few in College Point storage yard. I counted 7 of 'em today, and as Trevor's roster says, 3497 and 4217 are among them. Great improvement!
For the third time now, Stengel is NOT going RTS at all. Those RTS's you see are there because they do not drive and we needed them away from our yard at Jamaica depot because the lot was getting paved. BIG AL
On the roster, Glenn has those in CPY listed for scrap. 4574 has parts missing from it(like the right rear tire skirt). I will probably be over there sometime monday.
Speaking of maintenance, 4071-4152 were original Fresh Ponds.
Sounds like those replacements got sent a little too far into Queens! They should have wound up at Maspeth Storage!
Things are starting to look up guys. Check this out!
FLA to JAM: 9382-9384
KB to JAM: 9651-9652.
KEEP DREAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is what really happened:
FLA to JAM: 4128, 4130(with a rear wrap that MJQ put on), 4136
KB to JAM: 4119(which had to be towed there), 4127.
Its a good thing that FLA takes good care of their equipment. The three buses they gave JAM look pretty good on the outside, but operationally....thats a different story, I'm sure.
The two ex-KB's join the five winners that they sent there a couple years ago (4214-4218).
Mark
wait until you get our orions. 136 would only move at 15mph thus causing b/o to go out of service giving me a double headway. also they stink to high heaven since nyct took out anti pollution devices.your better off with 1700s.
Where is Maspeth Storage?
It's the old Avis auto repair facility located @ Grand Avenue & 49th Street, Maspeth, Queens
LMAO! Oh my goodness! I'm going to be riding more "junk" on the Q17 and Q46 when I return to school next week. This is gonna be a laugh and a half. Well, 4557 was junk anyways. The last time I rode her, she made me sick. 3243 will be a memory for me-The last 1983 RTS to be at QV-thought she was gonna be preserved. It's a shame though-she'll be missed. 3913 and 3934 were goodies that looked like junk. 3948 was slow-she had to go. But the oldies have to go sometime and I guess this is their time.
Q46#4323Gary
OK boys its Mr.Blue in LA with some tidbits for you.
Try the 1989 Antholigy "New York Stories" and in the "Life Lessons" episode note some NJT items including a Grumman and MCi.
In the "Life without Zoe" episode a NYCTA 7700 or 7800 Flxible new look can be seen racing around the background.
Any other good ones boys?
Blue
In this Bless This Child,There is a scene with An Orion V comming towards Kim Basinger.has anybody seen this film what Bus # was it (It wasn't a CNG)Also in this movie So Fine ( a farce about the fashion industry W/ James Bond Jwas -Richard Kiel There was a scene with a MaBSTOA 4800 Fishbowl(The TA's 6000 Fishbowls)
I also remember a 1993/94 "Red Shoe Diaries" showing a late operating Blitz.
Some Steven Segal flick done in Queens shows a pile of in service late era Blitz new looks.
However for NY busses Shaft (The oroginal and ONLY Shaft), Gloria, and Fort Apache are my favs.
The orig "Out of towners" is great as well.
Blue
There was a movie from the 70's where I believe it was Robert Duvall who plays a cop. In one part of the movie, he takes over and drives a MaBSTOA 8400 series winged fishbowl.(Don't remember the exact number) I think he gets into a struggle and then crashes the bus into a building. The bus had those blue "Go By Bus To The Coliseum" winged ads the TA used to use.
Fort Apache The Bronx is said movie.
With theclassic lne "New York Police we're takin the bus"
CLASSIC!
Blue
The Seven-Ups also had several batwings in it also a bunch of newlooks (flx and gm) in green and blue paint. also one depot in the bronx had several scenes filmed behind with a flx in the background. also a MC 7 from the hound was in it.
Also the movie "Cops and Robbers" had serveral buses from the 70s and earily 80s in it.
The name of the movie with Robert Duvall comandeering the Fishbowl is "Badge 373." In this movie, he comandeers a Batwinged Fishbowl (8000 series) - tossing the busdriver out the door after flashing his badge and takes off down what might be Flatbush Avenue towards the bridge. He rams some Chevys and they try to ram him back (laughable - ram a Fishbowl with a car - I don't think so!!)
Eventually, the bus hurtles onto what might be the Manhattan Bridge and slides sideways at the bottom trying to make a turn - eventually crashing into through a building. The Fishbowl pushes a few cars into the water during all of this.
It's the best bus chase scene you will ever see. I strongly recomend it for those who like the idea of a Fishbowl going into a turn fast enough to slide sidways.
I am i agreement I was picturing Paul Newman in Ft.Apache!
Blue
One that come to mind is the 1990 movie "QUICK CHANGE" starring Bill Murray, Randy Quaid, and Geena Davis.
A major segment towards the end of the movie takes place on a "Fishbowl" as the three would-be bank robbers are trying to make it to JFK airport on a Q9 bus driven by a "by-the-books" bus driver (Phil Bosco).
From what I learned on this board, the bus may be a former NJT that was painted in NYCTA colors (white with a blue stripe).
"A BRONX TALE" starring Robert DeNiro has him driving a couple of busses from the 50's and 60's era.
"IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU" has policeman Nicolas Cage delivering a baby in the back of a "Fishbowl".
Last Night channel surfing there was a movie on HBO with Chevy Chase and Demi Moore titled (IIRC) "Nothing But Trouble". I caught a few minutes near the end of the movie. They were running through a junkyard to escape some bad guys. Stacked on top of some cars were two Flxible New Look Fishbowls. Probably from the LA area.
The junkyard in tahat movie was a former RTD division and at that time was done up for the movie afer it was already a junk yard.
You see the sad state of some of the once SCRTD historic bus fleet in tehre.
Sad!
Blue
the bus was from california not ny. you can see from the interior it was not a nyct bus.
Was likely a Long Beach RTS 01 owned by BRAND X.
Blue
A BRONX TALE was all the more interesting since one of the central characters (DeNiro) was a bus driver. The buses of that era brought back many memories (as a boy, I used to practically live in the buses my father drove), but I always thought the shade of the colors (yellow and green) was slightly off. Just a feeling I had;it wasnt just rhe possible off-color of the TV screen on re-runs. I once saw one of those fifties-era prop buses on the street for a scene being filmed near Astor Place (for the subway entrance kiosk) for another fifties-era movies, and the colors somehow still seemed off. Couldnt quite put my finger on what the problem was.
your tv wasnt off. those were not nyct buses.they were rented from a private company. nyct buses wouldnt last for the shoot.
The quick change bus was a NYCTA Flxible.
Will have to run it to get the number.
Blue
The bus in "Quick Change" was NOT a NYCTA bus. It was painted up on the exterior as a NYCTA bus (7300 series) -- but if you look at the interior, etc., and know bus details, you'll see it was REALLY an NJT bus, with a more-standard seating layout than NYCTA's peripheral seating (plus the seats had cushions). The advertisements inside the bus were mostly for NJT too.
Does anybody out there have a list of the various support vehicles for the bus dept.? Or where one could find this imformation out such as wreckers, service trucks etc.
Here is a link to a page with photos of about 75% of the support vehicles fleet for the MTA New York City Transit. From these pictures you can get a good idea of what is in the support fleet, the only thing that is not there is the total of vehicles.
Click Here
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Nice pictures Trevor! But it would help the less knowledgeable among us if there were more description of what the vehicles were used for. For instance are the NYPD buses used to transport inmates? What is an infrastructure vehicle used for?
Tom
The NYPD is not responsible for inmates, for that there is the Department of Corrections.
hey--b53 do you work out of fresh pond road---i did at one time , give me a email or if anyone else is from fresh pond road. i also playd for the warriors -softball.
Sorry bctbear, I am not an employee of the TA. I'm just a bus fan who used to live along the B53(Q54) route a number of years ago. BTW, I picked up on your Broward handle. I head down that way myself once or twice a year.
Has anyone perfected turning a Corgi MCI 102DL3 model into a typicall MTA MCI?
I know the silversiding would have to be synthisized and the doors would have to be tolerated.
Also some MCI 102A2 models are selling on ebay with interesting MTA graphics depicting the new logo and staten island depot seal.
Does anyoe know if these decals can be purchased anywhere?
Advise,
Blue
Does anybody have a 1981 Brooklyn Bus Map? Please Respond on BusTalk!
Beside Great Britain, Ireland, Hong Kong and Singapore, can anyone tell me who uses Double Decker Busses on Local Transit Routes, No sightseeing or charter lines, just regular local bus services. LA used to
Berlin, Germany, has many. Victoria, B.C., just received about 10 or 11 for regular local service.
You forgot that MaBSTOA ran a few Double Deckers in The Mid70's
As you all know the chop top Neopan D/D's in NY are of forrmer Los Angeles heritage.
Blue
Thanks guys, but I am asking for today 2000
Also here in LA Antelope valley TA a suburban commuter service for a far off city runs Neoplan D/Ds.
Blue
Denver had one DD (Neoplan) that was used on an Express run
In a recent commercial for McDonald's new Dollar menu, it shows a person trying to board a bus with a Dollar bill. Just one problem, it looks like a NYCT bus. Where are the other fifty cents and who's making the change here?
Ifits a new look it may be one of gmartics fllet of movie busses such as NYCTA 3907 or 5288.
Blue
I believe I did a McDonalds commercial last year but havent seen it yet
I know this isn't bus but its street rail anyway. When I was in Antwerp, Belgium I saw a tramcar painted up in entirety as a rolling Mc Donalds ad! As luck would have it I had just used up the film and couldn't get a picture of it. Rats!
Thought you'd enjoy hearing about that car.
It's an RTS I believe.
Actually, it's an older RTS bus. I noticed the letters "PA" behind the door, and a blue 7 in a silver background where the depot decal is supposed to be. It also had those license plates you only see in commercials.
Saw a Geico commercial where a large creature is running through Manhattan. In the background there is a bus that supposed to look like a NYC MTA bus, either a Flx or an Orion.
[either a Flx or an Orion]
Flxible.
[either a Flx or an Orion]
Flxible.
[a large creature]
A giant walking piggy bank. A guy at the beginning of the commercial points at it and screams "PIG!"
the creature was walking down wall st. i saw him last night as i drove my x1.lol. actually they are using a toy bus which you can buy in times square for ten dollars. tourists love them along with the yellow cabs.
Yeah, one of those flxible toy buses, I think. I have one for SEPTA.
I thought it was the NYCT bus from the video to Whitney Houston's "My Love Is Your Love".
It's just saying that you usually can't ride a bus, at least in New York, for just a dollar. Lighten up, don't get too focused on the buses. It's just a commercial. Also, I don't know how that person is using a bill, since the buses only use change, which is really bad, by the way.
No, the commercial is saying "Wouldn't you rather spend that $1 at McDonalds?"
-Hank
Yeah, I would rather spend it at a place where I can actually use it!
And BTW, it looked like it had a Manhattanville logo on it.
It had a 7 covering over the logo.
It was a blue 7 in a gray circle with a thin blue outline.
Any idea what that could be?
Cover up for the depot logo.
But why a blue seven?
Because that's what they had.
-Hank
The bus in question is a 1980 grumman Flx made for SCRTD. I dont have the number on hand but I installed all the clear windows in it so I DEFINATELY know what bus it is. The bus belongs to my competetion and is used aggressively in the movie business.
Has anybody seen the movie Bless the Child? I saw the previews for this movie and there was an Orion with MTA New York City Bus written in the front. This is a very poor imitation for a movie that's supposed to be set in NYC.
R36Gary
Anyone knoe the address of the QV website??
I had it some time ago and now its lost.
Here ya go:
http://www.oe-pages.com/BIZ/Mlm/kwcarl/indexframe3.shtml
It's not much.....
PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BLAME THE BUS DRIVERS.
Of course your statement is absolutely correct. The contributors of this site are well aware of this major problem which the bus drivers face, and are sophisticated enough in their knowledge of all the other operational problems they face as well. But to the TA, the more layover time at the end of the line for the drivers, the more lost productivity time for the TA. In actuality, most lines have insufficient recovery time. Ever ride the Q58 or in the evening hours the Q59? All their recovery time is eaten up at the traffic lights on Grand Ave. & 69St./LIE Service Road. Residents at the end of a line actually complain that they don't like the buses standing for any amount of time at "their" corner, even with the engine shut down!
LI Bus layovers are often only 5 to 15 minutes, and in Flushing, bus drivers on the N20/21 barely have time to use the restroom before the next run starts.
Time is usually lost in rush hours, when the traffic delays from congestion and traffic lights take time away.
MTA should allot more layover time, there should be a minimum of 20 minutes layover time!!
I think that the MTA should plan their schedules focusing on the traffic rather than just the distance. Maybe that would prevent layover time from being taken away. Also, I think that 20 minutes is a little extreme for every time, unless the bus maybe stops at a terminal.
Posted by John on Mon Aug 28 22:53:05 2000, in response to Re: THE LATE BUSES, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Aug 28 18:21:27 2000
[snip]
"The MTA should allot more layover time, there should be a minimum of 20 minutes layover time!!"
From your mouth to Gods ears!
Currently, for the most part of my tour, I have 3 minutes on one end, and four on the other.
B6 Limited
East N Y
New Lots Sta
B6 Limited
Bensonhurst
Harway Av
B6 Limited
Rock Pky Sta
B6 Limited
Avenue J
Q76 College Pt
20 Av
via F Lewis
S48 Goethels Road N
via Forest Av
See my positing on August 28 after 1845 hrs
Steve
B6 Limited
East N Y
New Lots Sta
B6 Limited
Bensonhurst
Harway Av
B6 Limited
Rock Pky Sta
B6 Limited
Avenue J
Q76 College Pt
20 Av
via F Lewis
S48 Goethels Road N
via Forest Av
Long Term Diversion for the S40 and S48
Due to South Av Bridge Reconstruction
S40 Westbound
regular to South Av and Arlington Place, via Arlington Place ,Holland Av,Richmond Terrace,Western Av, Gulf Road,,Forest Av,Goethel Road North to stand Opposite the Goethels Road Administration Blg
S40 Eastbound via Goethel Road North ,Western Av,Richmond Terrace,Holland Av,Arlington Place,South Av,Richmond Terrace
S48 Reg to Forest av and South ,,then Forest ,Goethels Rd North to same stand
S48 Eastbound via Goethel Road North ,Western Av,Gulf Road,Forest Av,South Av and reg
B8 Shorturns and B70 now turning around in a new Turnaround loop for Buses Only
/the B70 will layover there ,also
The Q76
Nothbound via current to 14 Av,,Parsons Blvd,20 Av,131 st ,15 Av,132 St,to stand on 132 st near side of 20 Av
Southbound from 132 via left on 20 Av,Parsons Blvd,14 Av,Cross Island Pwy ,Francis Lewis Blvd
i don't know if has been covered yet but if you lookat any of the sings between brooklyn college and rockaway parkway at major transfer points on the B6 there is the limited stops signs up. Wow so Canarsie will have 2 limited buses (B103)my questions is will this be a joint operation with ulmer park and flatbush depot to provide the additional service needed to run the route or will it be so bad that the B11 will coming back. check it out the stops are there.
The service will operate the same as it does now: end-to-end trips and trips between Rockaway Parkway Station and Coney Island Avenue will be operated by Ulmer Park. Flatbush will operate rush-hour trips between Rockaway Parkway Station (pullouts only)/Ralph Avenue and Nostrand Avenue. During the hours of Limited operation, the end-to-end trips will be the Limiteds, and everything else will run local. The Limited zone is between Avenue J-E. 16th Street and Rockaway Parkway Station.
As a reminder, B6 Limited service starts Monday, September 11, 2000.
David
* Split between 2 or more depots
BRONX DIVISION
Amsterdam
3 *
6
13 *
15
36 *
42 *
100
101 *
104
Gun Hill
4
5
8*
12*
14
16 *
17
22
25
26
27
28 *
29
30
31 *
34
36 *
39 *
40 *
42 *
Kingsbridge
1
2
3 *
7
8 *
9
10
11
12 *
13 *
16 *
18
20
28 *
31 *
32
35
36 *
39 *
40 *
41
55
Mother Clara Hale
Bx 10
Bx 21
Bx 33
M1
M7
M30 *
M98 *
SH Lenox Av Shuttle
MANHATTAN DIVISION
126 Street
15
31
35
57
66
116
Manhattanville
2
3
4
5
18
60
96 *
101 *
103
Hudson
M6
8
9
11
14
16
21
22
34
Q32 *
Michael J Quill
10
20
23
27
30 *
42
50
72
79
86
96 *
98 *
102
106
X90
X92
BROOKLYN DIVISION
East New York
B7
8
12
14
15
17
20 *
25
40
42
43
60
82
83
Q24
56
Jackie Gleason
B9
11
16
23
35
37
43
51
61
63
65
67
68
69
70
71
75
77
Flatbush
B2
6 *
31
39 *
41
44
46
49
78
Fresh Pond
13
18
20 *
24
26
38
39 *
48
52
54
57
Q54
55
58 *
59
Ulmer Park
B1
3
4
6 *
X25
27
28
29
B36
64
74
QUEENS DIVISION
Q12
13
14
15
16
20A
20B
26
27
28
X32 *
Q32 *
44
48
X51
Q58 *
74
76
Jamaica
3
4
5
17
42
X63
X64
Q77
84
85
Queens Village
1
2
30
31
X32 *
Q36
43
46
X68
Q75
79
83
88
STATEN ISLAND DIVISION
Castleton
X2 *
X3 *
X9 *
X10
X11
X12
X13
X16
X18
X20
S40
42
44 *
46
48
51
52
53
54 *
56 *
57
59 *
60
62
66
67
76
78 *
90
92
96
98
Yukon
X1
X2 *
X3 *
X4
X5
X6
X7
X8
X9 *
X15
X17
X19
X31
S44 *
S54 *
S55
S56 *
S59 *
S61
74
78 *
79
91
94
I left alot of room in case you want to make notes of route names,,etc
* a route is split between 2 or more
Is the Q58 split with CS for school runs only?
I have to put that question to the group.
According to the Document ,there is no Mention of that
If you need any school run info ,,let me know that,also
i believe it is
short trips to QB and Grand only for the CS trips
Q58 run 035 from 108 and Horace Harding to Palmetto and St Nicholas.Pull out DHD via Fresh Pond ,Elliot Av, 69 St,LIE ,108 St to WB Q58 stand on side of the Fire House ..Leave to Palmetto at 225PM
SCHOOL OF ARTS AND BUSINESS
COWPERS JHS 73
Run 16
from 71 st and Grand Av to 41 rd and Main
.Pull out via Fresh Pond ,Flushing Av,Grand Av,69 st,54 Av,71 st,to stand on 71 st,nearside of Grand Av..Leaving at 235 PM ,..Next stop is Grand Av and 73 st
RUn 038 same ...Revenue at 235 PM
Run 12 same Revenue at 240PM
Run 17 same Revenue at 240 PM
Run 027 from 71 st and Grand Av to Corona and 108 st
.
Pull out Fresh pond ,Flushing Av,Grand Av,69 st,54 Av,71 st,to stand nearside of Grand Av on 71 s.Revene at 240 PM ,next stop is Grand Av and 73 st towards Corona Av av and 108 st ..DHD from 108 and Corona to Grand and 64 st at 302 PM via 108 st,Harding ,69 st,Grand Av,,64 st,then revenue to Palmetto and St Nicholas
Yes, the Q58 trips out of Casey Stengel Depot are only supplemental school* trips, not regular "line" trips.
The supplemental trips start at John Bowne High School (on Main Street at Reeves Avenue) and then proceed via Main Street, left Horace Harding Expressway, right 108th Street, left Corona Avenue, to Junction Blvd. ALL Casey Q58 trips end at Corona & Junction.
* Of course, anybody with $1.50 or a MetroCard may board those trips, but who would WANT to ride with several dozen screaming teenagers?!
-----
As an aside, notice that the X32 (Bronx H.S. of Science Express) is also split - morning trips are at CS, afternoon trips are at QV. Since it's an express, school passes are NOT accepted; each geek pays $3.00 per ride.
are all the q58 not coming out of fresh pond road??
DUH! All Q58's come out of Fresh Pond EXCEPT the PM school runs referred to in the post you replied to!
over the weekend, i heard on a florida radio station that a jackie gleason sculpture (statue ) was dedicated in the port authority bus terminal... i was surprised that no one commented on it here...
i will be arriving in port authority tomorrow around 4:10 pm on greyhound and will check it out...
It was given a publicity promo in todays New York Newsday. It is from a cable tv channel that is presently running "The Honeymooners"in is programming.
why port authority? ralph worked for the gotham bus co. it should stand at 370 jay st nyct headquarters. of course then the tourists wouldnt see it.
According to pictures in the paper, the statue is in front of the building on 8th Avenue. Joyce Randolph (Trixie) said to the Channel 11 reporter that it is a great likeness of Jackie but that she had seen him when he was "a little plumper". According to Joyce, Jackie's daughter had approved the plan and the design prior to casting.
Hi All:
Being a NJ Transit bus shifter has it's perks and now it has payed off to the ultimate.......
This morning I shifted one of our MCI MC-9As (Bus #6677) to Atantic Detroit Diesel in Lodi for engine work. After dropping off the bus in the main lot, I snapped some pics of some of the New Flyer D60HF "Galaxy" Articulated there (Buses #5445, 5448, 5443, 5453). I went inside the maintenance facility to be a little more nosy and ran into one of the technicians I know there. I asked him what ever became of the Three (3) New Flyer D45S "Viking" buses that were supposed to premier on the Staten Island routes because I heard that the TA rejected them and sent them back to New Flyer. His reply was "NOPE"! They did go back to NFI but was returned........
He walked me to some hidden part of the facility in which 996, 997, and 998 were all sitting being set up for service WITH LICENSE PLATES THIS TIME! He also told me that the reason that they did not hit service yet was because of a real petty reason, It was the driver's partition. The manufacturer's standard driver partition is "illegal" by NYCDOT & MTA standards. If you look at the picture below, you'll notice the type of partition.....
According to what this guy told me, the partitions will be replaced with legal driver partitions and placed into MTA Express Service in Late September/Early October. Looks like the MTA is not done looking for another Cruiser-type Coach as we all thought........Oh and yes I did take more photos of them so more to come soon.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Seems though that by the time the MTA makes up its mind on whether or not they wanna purchase the viking, they'll have tons of MCI's and won't need them anymore.
Personally, I think its an ugly looking bus compared to the MCI's.
Shaun
I agree with BusMan on this one. The New Flyer D45S Vikings are quite unattractive. I would much rather see the TA stick with the MCI's. Even though Queens won't see any.
The interiors look pretty much the same and that's what really counts to the passengers. If the Vikings perform well you may see them on the Queens express routes as part of the next big over-the-road bus purchase contract. Meanwhile I'll keep Queens commuters in mind as I ride into work on one of our luxurious well air-conditioned MCI coaches.
LOL....that was cruel Dan!!!
I am not much a fan of the NF Vikings but they will add a variety to the NY fleet.
Give me a cool 102DL3 any day over ANY road coach built today!
Blue
I was in Hoboken Today ,noticed the IBOA Destination Signs for the Academy 22
I am asking again,,so I can complete my project,,,Does anyone have the Complete listing.for all of the IBOA
I spoke to an operator,,,who advised that the Buses Are delivered with the Signs programed,,so I am hoping that one of the people who read Bus Talk can assist me
THank you
Steve
the local transit provider here - Pierce Transit - which I ride everyday has a fleet of buses comprising only three models:
New Flyer Low-floors that were delivered recently
Orions that all look the same outside but have been built 82-95 and interiors vary (orange plastic vs. red and gray plastic vs. red and gray fake leather)
Gillig Phantoms that I think are 79-82 or something like that. My question is this: PT usually tries to run only Orions and New Flyers because the Gilligs are famed for having bad steering. When drivers switch and it's a Gillig they make jokes like "what did i do to deserve this" and stuff. But SoundTransit, which runs our express routes, has quite a few Gilligs of its own (all deliveredin the last three years) and they steer great. So my question...
What is it about late 70s - early 80 Gilligs that makes the steering so crappy?
There are no "late 70's" Gilligs. The first ones were built in the last quarter of 1980. Pierce Transit had some 1985 models (201-239) but didn't get any others according to the Gillig production lists that I have.
The earlier Gilligs have Ross "Cam & Lever" steering...which is a pain int he ass to work with. It won't return to center without help, and lots of it.
Believe me, I know how bad Gilligs steer. I had a major shoulder surgery three years ago, and had the entire summer off (at company expense) thanks to the steering in Gillig Phantoms tearing my rotator cuff in my left shoulder apart.
I hate Gillig Phantoms with a passion. They are a genuine piece of shit.
Go gillig haters, but i'm sure that the Phantoms are better now.