Last night on the 11:00 news, I heard a story that a guy shot a 48 year old man coming home with party stuff. He was the most serious injured. Also heard that he tried to hijack bus 4383. Heard he pointed a gun at the driver. Thank God he didn't try and hijack an Artic. Anybody heard about this story?
Q46#8356Gary
This was some pretty serious stuff. Evidently a drug deal went bad and some shooting started. An innocent bystander was shot in the head and was in serious condition. When the police came, the perp ran and hijacked the bus. At some point the driver set the E-brake, scuffled with the perp and jumped off the bus. The perp couldn't figure out how to quickly release the brake and he too jumped off the bus. He then ran into the Metro North Station (Kingsbridge or Fordham ?) and on to the tracks. He hurt his ankle while being pursued by the NYPD and was captured.
Yes the bus was 4383. Don't know what route or run it was.
Beleive it was the Fordham station on Metro North........
B46M Limited
It was. I read about it on NY1.com.
And why should we "Thank God he didn't try and hijack an artic"???
I think you should say "Thank God the bus operator or passengers weren't killed by the gunman", not worry about a bus.
Really!!!
What difference would it have made if he took a artic or RTS?
What is wrong with you??
Are you a asshole with dentures??
Were you a special education student or were you born stupid!?
Glad to see that you have not ran for a political office!!!
Yup, you really DO have problems.
If you want to attack him on something, please don't do it while you are in FULL AGREEMENT, it only makes you look like a fool (although, you've pretty much solved that problem already).
No dentures here. This bus operator still has all his teeth!!
Thank you Steve. You took the words right out of my mouth, or off my keyboard. It made absolutely no sense to me either what he said about thanking God it wasn't an artic. BIG AL
Ok, I realliterate: Thank God the driver wasn't hurt but I did hear that he sprained his ankle in the process. I was thinking imagine if he hijacked an artic and how they're different length than a regular bus. Sorry I must realliterate on this board but if some people had a half a brain, they'd be dangerous.
Q46#9365Gary
I'd be dangerous if I had half a brain? So I must be real dangerous that I have a full one to say that I agree with everyone else, and even after you say the driver did get a sprained ankle...
I took a day trip to the Washington, DC area on April 22nd. I was on Stoneybrook Drive on the way to the LDS temple. I noticed there were speed bumps on the road. I also noticed that Ride-On Route #4 ran along there (from the bus stop signs). How do people on those buses handle riding over those speed bumps?
Also went sightseeing in DC. Saw cousins of the 50 Orions at Green Bus Lines. Saw a MetroBus Orion on the P6 route with a sign on the rear that poses a striking resemblence to the side route sign on the GBL buses. I noticed an articulated on MetroBus Route 70, and a small MetroBus minibus sitting outside the Dupont Circle station on the Red line (on route D-something, I forget). What I want to know is what purpose do those small buses serve that the regular-sized buses can't.
DISCLAIMER: I'm not a resident of Washington, DC, Maryland, or Virginia. I am not familiar with MetroBus's route numbering system. Maybe the D routes indicate something I'm not aware of. Someone please enlighten me on this!
I've only been on one Ride-On route that encounters speed bumps, the 38. All the driver does is slow the bus down to almost a crawl. It is not as bad as one thinks.
The 4 is operated with the smaller buses. In fact, I know a driver who gets that route sometimes but he has never told me much about it. The 38 is operated with the Gilligs.
The smaller buses create less noise than the big ones, thus you will often find them on routes that travel through neigborhoods like the E6. You saw a D2 which runs to Glover Park (near Georgetown). D indicates a bus that goes on MacArthur Boulevard and then takes the route over to Union Station before September 18, 1999. Since, the D2 and D4 have been split, and the D1, D3, and D6 have that old service. The D5 remained the same.
Does anybody remember the old GMC coaches in the 1950s known as the Jitterbug. They were 4 bangers either 30 or 35 footers. They had the rounded back with the tailfin much like the Flxible flyers. I think they were the GMC #4101. I remember Carey Transportation had a few of them. The one that I rode was owned and operated by a man named Artie Berns. It was light blue and white and had the name Sportline Tours. Artie operated 3 of them at the time and garaged somewhere on Utica Ave. in Brooklyn near Clarendon Road. He later changed the name of his company to Cambridge Charter Coach and operated some old look Green Bus & Jamaica transits.
I want to know why other Depot have mix numbers of buses? For example: Kingsbridge Depot have #8750-#8751 & Manhattanville Depot have #8752-#8806 or West Side Depot have #8192, #8198, #8200-#8214, #8214, #8218-#8225 & 126th St Depot have #8186-#8191, #8193-#8197, #8199, #8213, #8215-#8217. It doesn't make any sense to me because they mix up buses. Why should West Side Depot get from #8186-#8225 so it can make it easy. I look up Glenn's Bus Roster & almost all the Depot have mixing buses numbers expect Castleton & Yukon Depot.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
Hey Meaney, you forgot to mention Queens:
CS: 223, 227-232, 400-401, 404, 425
QV: 4304, 4429, 8352, 8355-8396
JAM: 9051, 9053-9056, 9065, 9070
HP: 8459, 8461-8465, 8467, 8470, 8473-8476, 8479-8482, 8484-8485, 8490-8492, 8495
126 ST: 8440, 8442, 8445-8446, 8451-8452, 8454, 8458, 8466, 8468-8469, 8471-8472, 8477-8478, 8483, 8486-8489,
8493-8494, 8496
Q46#8356Gary
My take on it is that - Of course it looks good on paper (and organized for a depot to have a fleet with contiguous fleet numbers. I imagine that if a (or small group needs to be shifted to another depot(s)) - it may happen with number gaps because some buses may not be available at the time. I'm sure there's more to it. If this is not the case - I admit now that I may be wrong. Just a shot in the dark.
Wayne
Does anybody have a copy of NYCTA Brooklyn Bus Map from 1981? Please Post
Last night I was riding on the J train heading to Bway Juction when i looked out a window and saw some of the Orion buses peeking out the front of the depot and some you could see through the window. My question is are they there for maintainance or are they here for good and if so what routes do they serve or going to serve?
I will make a trip over there tomorrow and post info. I also have an ENY question myself but will post later.....
B46M Limited
On the bus roster, 175 from MCH is @ ENY
B46M Limited
If you see any Orions at ENY, rest assured, they are not there for service. They are there for either repairs or overhauls at ENY Base Shop. Bus 175 is still assigned to MCH.
I was wonering one day that althoug h eveyone agrees that it is likely the B49 is the candidate for ltd service what about the B35 with a weekday extesion to Vansiclen/livoina ave? does anyone knoww trhe process the ta takes in chossinfgroutes for ltd service?
NYCT looks at several factors when deciding whether a route should have Limited service. Some are:
1. Ridership
2. Riding patterns (are boardings/alightings grouped around certain stops, are there defined attractions along the route [such as a subway station or a hospital, etc.]?)
3. Street design (can buses pass each other?)
4. Length of route
David
Once a week I am on DeKalb Ave from Broadway to Carlton (AM) and Lafayette from Adelphi to Broadway (PM). This is along a major part of the B38. I'm surprised that there is no limited skip-stop type service. I see many people waiting at some stops and then 2 or 3 buses bunched together.
If limited service is not practical because of the width of the streets why can't the the TA have some of the buses only go half way and then turn around. For instance AM have some of the buses leave Downtown and instead of going all the way to Ridgewood have some of them turn around at Bushwick Ave or Broadway and some turn around at Bedford and have a couple do the whole route. This could be repeated in the PM.
The B38 and B54 are notorious for bus bunching. It must be the area...... :):):)
B46M Limited
If a TA driver were to change depots like from Brooklyn to Staten Island, where l is TWU and the other Amalgamated, how does his seniority come in to play when it comes to pension and when it comes to picks in the new depot. Does he start all the way at the bottom or does he get credited for the time he has already put in ?
When transfering from one division to another regardless of which union is present the operator losses his or her senority.The pension is not effected,your time on the job is still the same.
I've never found out why the TA has a Grumman bus in the museum fleet (#236). I remember back in the mid 1980's (was it 1984?) when David Gunn, then head of the MTA, ordered all the Grumman's off the streets in New York. Eventually, litigation ensued and all of the Grumman's were returned to the manufacturer. Why did 236 remain with the TA?
If I remember correctly, those buses were not returned back to Grumman. They all sat on a pier in Manhattan until transit was able to sell them off to other agencies, like Jamaica Bus Lines and New Jersey Transit not including working out some financial deal with Grumman. Transit kept #236 because they were not forced to get rid of any of those buses. They got rid of what they did not want. They had to keep one bus because now it is a part of transit's history, thus giving it museum status. (please don't ask why they chose #236!!!) BIG AL
I'm quite sure the buses went back to Grumman, and that it was Grumman that sold them (after considerable work on them) to NJ Transit, Cincinnati, Springfield (MA) and a few other properties. I just wondered why, if Gunn disliked them so much, one was retained. Perhaps they needed it as evidence in the lawsuit. By the way, those that went to the privates, like Jamaica bus lines, were not from the NYCTA order.
Some were kept as evidence for the lawsuit but which ones I don't know.
The Grummans were in storage at the Brooklyn Navy Yard and then Flxible bought them and refurbished them and sold them with New Bus warranties. This is according to an article in Bus World magazine years back. I have to look at my past issues for the exact date. But this also had to do with the fact that Flxible had changed hands to GAC (General Automotive Corporation). If you look at any of the ex-NYCTA/MaBSTOA units they carried the Flxible logo and not the Grumman logo. It's soo sad that MTA gave up on those great buses. NJT is still running a few of the remaining units and this is 20 years later.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
05/02/2000
I know those stored Grummans were at the Brooklyn Army Terminal since I have slides on this, they were also stored at the Brooklyn Navy Yard?
Bill Newkirk
Tehy were stored all over; some were stored at Edgewater, many were at the Brooklyn Navy Yard (in a location where the city now stores old fire trucks) and the Brooklyn Army Terminal.
-Hank
The Flxible plate replaced the Grumman name plates after they were rebuilt.
A dead give way that it was a NYCTA bus was that the emergency beacons remained intact mostly painted over but still visible on the second handers.
Does anyone have a complet roster of which ones went where with the TA # vs re #?
M1 (The M1 and only)
NYCTA did NOT sell the buses off to NJT, Jamaica Bus, etc.
The ones at Jamaica Bus were ones originally built for Jamaica Bus.
The NYCTA fleet was most certainly returned to Grumman, put through a rehab, and sold to NJ Transit, Cincinnati, Pioneer Valley TA (Massachusetts) and San Juan (Puerto Rico).
Correct, except that the buses were sent to General Automotive, not to Grumman. By 1984, Grumman had sold the Flxible business.
David
Good point -- I thought about that AFTER I sent the post. Thanks for the correction!
Yep - Which is probably why the ex-NYCTA Grummans returned to service with Flxible logos.
Wayne
I remember riding the Grumman Bus back in early 1980 on M15 & M17 (Now M79) enjoy riding it. It was a great bus & boy i miss that bus. Grumman Buses been on the road only 4 years before they took out of service & most of Depot was short of buses. I do not understand why took out & i want to see them on the road. I haven't seen Grumman Bus #236 since they took out in 1984.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
The Grumman 870's frame was horrible. They kept cracking and the TA just got fed up with them after an Express bus from Ulmer Park caught fire on E 57th St.
I remember riding on one on the Q-60 Green Bus Line route on the Queensboro Bridge after the TA pulled them from service. I thought it was come apart on the bridge.
It was a poorly made bus for New York City
Thank You
Funny people mention it was a "poorly made bus for New York City".
Even funnier is that fleets of them ran everywhere else in the country without the continuing problems that NYCTA had -- maybe it had something to do with NYCTA's maintenance, or lack thereof, at the time? The city was going through some difficult financial times, and usually any sort of equipment/asset maintenance will be the first thing to suffer when such financial hardships arise.
Yes, the Grumman 870's had frame problems -- and once the problem was discovered, Grumman took care of it. And nobody else had continuing problems once the A-frames were replaced.
How did the TA make up for lack of buses once the Grummans were taken out of service?
The Grummans were removed from service twice - once in the early 1980's when the A-frames had major problems and secondly around 1984 when David Gunn got fed up with them. One of those times (I forget which one) the TA borrowed buses from WMATA in Washington, DC. It was great seeing the variety of 35 and 40 foot new look GM's (and, perhaps, some Flxibles) riding the streets of NYC. The TA also rented some MCI Cruisers from Greyhound for the Staten Island express routes. In due course, new RTS's replaced the missing Grummans.
Besides the GM fishbowls (and I believe a few Flxibles) from WMATA, and over 100 MC-8's from Greyhound, they also had about a dozen GM fishbowl suburbans from Metropolitan Suburban BUS Authority out on Long Island. These were also used in Staten Island express service.
The WMATA stuff stayed in WMATA colors (including a few that were still in old DC Transit turquoise), kept their original numbers, but NYCTA applied their own fleet numbers (1700-1800 series) on red stickers that were affixed to the window glass (making for easy removal when the lease was up).
The ex-Greyhound buses were numbered 5800 and 5900 series; they were in full NYCTA paint, etc. At the conclusion of the NYCTA lease of these buses, they wound up in used bus lots all aroun the USA. (I worked for a tour/charter company at the time, and we wound up with ex-NYCTA 5906. What a heap -- it was worn out when Greyhound got done with it, and NYCTA squeezed a few thousand more miles onto it.)
The ex-MSBA buses were numbered in the 100 series at MSBA, and all the ones I saw were fully painted NYCTA colors and had "01" added in front of their numbers, so they were the "01100" series.
Also to make up for the lack of buses, the TA brought back to service a number of older buses from storage that were set for retirement.
And don't forget the 350 Blitz buses!
David
I didn't know they had put buses back in service that were scheduled for retirement -- BUT, didn't the Blitz rebuilds happen a few years AFTER the "crisis" of the Grummans was over with?
The Grummans were giving the TA fits for a couple of years before David Gunn pulled them from service within a week after becoming TA President. This is why the TA had created a reserve fleet. The Actual replacement plan was as follows:
400 new RTS (#3400 to 3799)
350 Blitz Rebuilds
150 Leased Greyhounds
Believe it or not the TA ran near normal service the day after the Grummans were pulled.
Thank You
david gunn became ta president on 2/1/84 and pulled the grummans off the road on 2/7/84. at ulmer park many runs were held in due to lack of equipment for several months. i know as i was there. the trick is the runs went out late so ta could say they covered most of the work. the riders knre otherwise.
Many of them were. The Blitz buses were 1984-85.
-Hank
If those buses were rebuilt in the mid-80s, and there are still older RTS buses (1982, 83) still in service, why aren't there any Blitzes in service today?
How long will the rebuilt RTS (7000's) last?
Because Blitzes Buses doesn't have A.C. & it ran until 1987 or 1988. I been on Rebuilts Blitzes Buses many time because my father who is the B/O drove that bus ran from Old 100th St Depot back in late 80s.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
The Blitz rebuilds did indeed have A/C, however, in the end, it was non-functional. The buses had a roof-mounted A/C unit. Additionally, the buses when rebuilt were already 13-16 years old (built 1969-72). They were of older all-steel construction, which was more prone to rust. The last of them finally went in 1993, after an axle defect was discovered when an SI x-bus had an axle crack on the Gowanus. That's why the first Orions (101-172, nee 93001-93072) came to Staten Island.
-Hank
The Blitzes left express service in 1993 after the accident Hank cited. However, they ran in local service until 1995. When NYCT rebuilds a bus (or has it done by a contractor), the bus isn't considered new -- it's considered 7 years old. The Blitzes ran for almost 10 years on top of the "7" they were when they re-entered service after being rebuilt. Another reqson the Blitzes were retired was that they weren't lift-equipped (nor did they have kneelers).
As for the air conditioning, the express Blitzes had their units replaced during the rebuilding. The local buses had to wait until 1987-88. The local buses had AC that would freeze your tushie off. The expresses, not so good. In any event, when it looked like the Blitzes were about to run their last miles, the depots stopped maintaining the AC. I was on several buses on which it seemed the equipment was working, but the system had no refrigerant.
David
The last Blitz were retired from service in March of 1995.
Was it 5227 out of JG???????
B46#5375Mike
I believe so. I know it was a 5200 out of JG
I remember riding that at the festival one year, I think the year before they went out of service.
No, it was definately 1995.
Im about 90% sure it was 5227. I remember when the Daily News ran a story on it the day after it retired. I think it last ran on the B35 line??????
B46#5385(Blitz)Mike
As muh as I'm no big fan of RTS's, one thing I will say is that they have one hell of a strong frame. The frame is usually the deciding factor on how long something's going to last.
The Blitz rebuilds had a frame which was actually part of the roof, with the floor suspended from same. The old "monocoque" type construction. Plus they did not have wheelchair lifts. They were rebuilt just to prolong their life and save a little money. The rebuilds costed around $50-70K, whereas a brand nw bus was, at that time, at least double that (nowadays, they are $300K and up).
I'm not sure, but if an agency rebuilds a bus using Federal funding, I believe they must keep it running for seven years after the rebuild. (A new bus must be kept at least 12 years.)
as an aside to this the accident on the gowanus left a passenger partially blinded and the bus driver later suffered a stroke and wound up in a nursing home. nyct probably wound up with huge legal bills for allowing such equipment on the road. the bus involved was 5567 and it wound up at walnut junkyard until retirement.
"A new bus must be kept at least 12 years."
I assume this didn't apply to the Grummans... :P
Actually, that requirement is IF the equipment is purchased with Federal funding.
As I understand, the Grumman 870's were bought either by NYCTA or the Port Authority of NY/NJ and leased to NYCTA directly with no Federal funding. So the 12-year tenure would not have been required.
Oh ok, thanks!
I think you are right on both counts. The Port Authority of NY/NJ put up funds for something under 200 buses. These were the ones with the PA numbers, starting with PA1 up into the upper 100's. The buses without the PA (starting at 200 or 201) were funded with a combination of state and city moneys, if memory serves me.
Those Grumman 870 PA units were PA1-PA175.
Wayne
If I'm not mistaking, most of the PA buses are retired? I know there may be a few still running in Queens. And some buses I saw that once had the PA in front-got rid of them. Why was that?
Q46#PA3243Gary
Yes, most of the PA RTS have been retired. Many of them had the PA removed long ago. The last PA buses at NYCTA are still around, but I'm sure the PA has been removed. Those are the low 4300 series from the 1986 GM RTS-06. I don't know the exact range of numbers, but I think they were PA4301-PA4335. If I remember correctly 4300 wasn't a PA unit. These buses originally operated out of Kingsbridge depot.
Wayne
Some of the 1983 buses (3000-3325) were also PA buses.
You're right. most of them were PA units. I think from 3096??? on up to 3325 were PA units. The 1982 of course were all PA buses.
Wayne
If it helps, the production records I have show the order to be 3001-3090 and PA3091-PA3325.
Thanks Steve,
I knew I was close. I'm still struggling to recall the few PA units in the 1986 GM RTS-06 (low 4300s).
Wayne
Unfortunately, can't help on those. The production lists show themonly as one big batch, 4300-4599.
Many of the PA buses in New Jersey that are still running had the PA's removed. I forget the details, but I believe the buses bought with Port Authority funds were to be owned by the PA and leased to the operator for $1 a year for a certain number of years. After that time period was up, ownership automatically reverted from the PA to the operator. I assume that once legat title transferred from the PA to NYCTA or NJ Transit, the PA was removed.
Wouldn't that be moot if (as the situation turned out) the equipment is defective?
I certainly wouldn't expect to be forced to keep defective equipment 12 years, simply because of the way it was purchased.
-Hank
Thank you all for this info, and if anyone has any more info, there's always space.
Like many of us, (not all of us), I do miss the 870. They handled very well especially in bad weather. And were quite roomy inside. One aspect of the Grumman fiasco in which we all benefitted was the emergence of new, unusual bus builders, with many demos plying the streets as well as several production models, which probably would never have happened. Already AMGeneral was pulling out. And the marriage between Gillig and Neoplan took a messy divorce. Yes, it created a welcome to an already stagnant transit bus industry. Not saying many of these new "upstarts" were better in any way, just a bit interesting.
Joe Caronetti
I remember riding the Japanese Hino bus on the M-4 and the Renault bus on the M-100 as well in the early lives of th Grumman era. AFAIK, NYCTA lost quite a few of the WMATA buses due to fires, accidents, and a bus or 2 actually stolen and vandalized and I think one fell into the drink as well...Also, I believe the Blitzes cost roughly $88k a copy and a new RTS was around $150k. And it was rumored that you were able to make Ed Koch sick by mentioning Grumman around him....... :)
I believe that the WAMTA bus went into NY Bay from a pier on SI just prior to its return to DC
that would be edgewater depot and several buses did indeed have to be rescued from the water.
Yep. If you hit the New Dorp Public Library, they'll have pictures of the fishbowls that became fish food.
-Hank
Yes, they lost one to a wreck, for sure -- maybe more. I forget the number, but I was driving a tour bus up 6th Avenue one Sunday morning, and saw the remains of one that broadsided a garbage truck right at 42nd Street. The entire front of the bus was demolished, and a couple TA maintenance people were there hooking it up to a tow truck. The garbage truck had some major scrapes on its right side but otherwise looked drivable.
I was very upset when I went to the bus stop for the Q14, Monday morning, five minutes early mind you, to discover that they changed the schedule...now the Whitestone-bound Q14 is only running every half hour in the early morning! I was deeply troubled upon discovering this cruel twist of fate. It still is my favorite line, although I wish it ran more often.
Today I went to College Point and walked around for about an hour, and
was waiting for the Q20A/B near 123rd and 14th avenue, for quite a while. This was around 7pm. I just missed the bus as I got to the stop but had to wait almost another half-hour for the Q20B to Flushing.
I thought the buses in Queens ran fairly often in rush hours.
Also wanted to go on the Q13 from Flushing to Bayside and it didn't come for the 10 minutes I was waiting there, so I just gave up. Gee, if they run so infrequently I should always get schedules like with LI Bus! Well at least the weather was nice for waiting and waiting. BTW, NYCT should really get some more Orion CNG's like Queens Surface. I was on the Q65A and Q25 today, those buses are comfortable and very fast (much quieter than most of CS's noisy diesels). Buses were also very clean in the interior.
Unfortunately, LI Bus has not keep their "clean air" Orion CNG buses clean on the inside, there was gum, wrappers, and a pizza crust near my seat on my ride home on the N21. At least the bus I had, 139, was running pretty good, but those QSC CNG's are still faster. Anybody know HP for both LI Bus Orion CNG's and QSC's?
The Q13 runs every 15-20 minutes. And you figure with traffic on both Northern and Bell Blvd you're gonna be waiting a few extra minutes for that bus. The Q20A Q20B and Q44 most of the buses are going Bronx-Bound at that time. The ones that are going Jamaica Bound are starting at Main and Roosevelt cause of the # 7 crowds off the subway.
Every time I'm waiting for the Q66 to go to 51 St, I see a whole bunch of Q20A, Q20B and Q44's lining up to go to the Bronx and the Q66 has a difficult time picking up its passengers cause they have to stop in the Q66 stop and wait for the other buses to pull out. As far as the CNG Orions at QS are concerned, I do like their smooth ride and cleanliness but I do not prefer them. I just don't favor Orions at all. I love the seat in the middle of the bus in the very back by the vents and they don't have it. I also don't like the very front-there's no place to rest my arm unlike the TMC and Novas they have an armrest. They have excellent speed but I like the TMC and MCI much better. I talk to a lot of drivers at QS and most of them do not like the Orions at all- they prefer the TMCs. Orions have too many gadgets on it and 1 said it's like his living room. Also the mechanics say that there's a lot of problems with the Orions-cause liek I said- they are not made for city streets. Yesterday I saw 397- a brand new bus with only 1 working headlight. The doors are slow to open and close. Some of the destination signs do not work. Some still are cut off: For example:
Q104 48 ST & QUEENS BL
VIA B'
I know buses 405 425 471 472 and 480 still have this problem. I'm sure there are more.
Q66#384Gary
Orion 4410 still has problems with its sign here in DC. Trevor Logan took a picture of it at Lakefroest Mall back in November of '99 and the front sign still had the exact same pattern of lit up LEDs when I saw it on the 14M at Bethesda today as in the picture. Its back and side signs were fine, though.
Who does Orion contract for it's destination signs? Or do individual operators (like NYCT or QSC) choose a contractor for destination signs?
I have an idea it has nothing to do with Orion, but destination sign companies. If they are having problems with them, can't the operator get new signs put in from a different company?
At LI Bus, most front signs work on the Orions, except the diesel 600's, which have a different type of sign that has a lot of problems.
Who does NYCT, QSC, and LI Bus use for destination signs? Is it Luminator?
I know NYCT uses Luminator, except for 522, which uses a orange Balios sign.
QSC Orions CNG Vs are by the same mfg., the exception are the 50 diesels that were mfg. for WMATA, but picked up by ncyDOT when Wash ran out of funds at the end of the order. That firm is no longer used by Orion.
Mr t__:^)
At what time did you wait for the Q14? The HEADWAYS stayed the same from the winter pick into the spring pick, but the TRIP TIMES changed to move all the layover from Whitestone to Flushing.
The February 2000 public timetable lists morning Whitestone-bound (off-peak direction) buses at 5:00, 5:50, 6:20, 6:40, 7:00, 7:20, 7:40, 7:55, 8:10, 8:25, 8:47, 9:15, 9:45, and then every 30 minutes until 1:45PM. (Notice that first headway of 50 minutes!) For the spring, those trips should be a little later, so that they get to Whitestone at the southbound (peak direction) leave times.
I was riding #9362 on the Q88 today. I noticed that the bell sounded sick. So, I took out my microphone and minidisc recorder and recorded it. Instead of sounding like what it usually sounds like, it sounded like the first tone of an R44 (New York subway car, seen on the A and Rockaway Shuttle lines) doorbell. Listen up for those strange bus bells now!
#9362 has had that bell ever since she arrived at QV back in 1998. IDK why she's the only 1 that has it.
Q46#9365Gary
Can you possibly record the MD to a CD, put the CD in your comp, and send a file of the sound to me?
Why use the middleman?
Connect the MD to the Mic in or line in port on the sound card and record it that way.
OK. Here's the link.
Click here to hear NYCB #9362's sick bell (68.5K).
I've rode this bus many times on the Q30, Q31 and Q46. I do not think this bell is sick! It's just different than the others. Instead of the "DING" sound the 9300s usually make, it makes a "BUNG" sound.
Q46#9365Gary
Well, it is sick compared to what a normal bell sounds like, just like a sick subway doorbell being sick compared to what a normal doorbell sounds like.
It isn't sick. Most new buses do this instead. I like it more, actually.
Thanks!
That's how I did it. Who needs the middleman?
What wire could you have used?
You know the male port at the other end of a headphone cable? Get a cable with one of those at both ends.
They sell them at Radio Shack. That's where I got mine. I also use it with an adapter that has two female ends as a headphone extension cord.
Thanks to the both of ya!
But if you don't have that wire, is the only way is to use the middleman?
How would you use a middleman? Assuming you get a non-computer based CD Recorder (uncommon relative to CD-R drives), how would you connect it to the MD player?
With the same cable.
Ah, but you forgot the rare cases of boom boxes with a MD and a CD player.
But they only work the other way, from CDs to MDs.
........well .......well........well........get ready for that same sound on the ( r -142 on subtalk )....
I hear the same sounds you all post on foothill and mta ( los angeles mta ) canada made buses here !!!
Oh ok, so now you can hit me on the head :)
Scrolling doesn't bother me!
wait folks when you hear the r-142 sounds that same sick sick sound !!
I like that!!! Best use of a Sallamallah post to yours ever!!! Bravo!! Bravo!!!
children .......!!! cant you little white boys grow up ??...male sure mommy gives you permission !!
I know this is asking for too much but please please try ..............
Doesn't bather me either!
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Isn't that special?
Would you MORONS CLOSE YOUR GODDDAMNED HTML!!!!!
If you don't know how to use it, DON'T USE IT!
-Hank
Hey! We were just playing around.
If you don't want to respond to these messages, then don't.
Get a stress ball.
..........bring on the sick bells dorbells and styrofoam sounds of the bombed-out R-142 ...!!
Depends on what you've got. Most portable MD recorders have a digital in, but a regular line out and/or headphone out. If your home equipment has a digital out, you can hook it to a digital in on the MD (of course, you need to have either the optical or electrical cable, depending on your unit)
You can record from anything that has a line out, period. All you need is equipment with a line in. And even if it doesn't, like my stero at home, there are ways. If you've got a dual-deck tape recorder, get a cassette adapter (that's how my MP3 player works through my stero) and record in the second deck.
Hook it to the line in on your PC soundcard, and record to a .WAV or .MP3 format (depending on your recording software).
So long as you've got the right cables, you're golden. And a quick trip to Radio Shack will find you all the cables you need.
-Hank
Not for me.
Oh yeah. Now would ya mind whacking me on the head a few times?
Wait a sec. What type of wire could you possibly use??????
Isn't that the way all the bells sound on the '98 and newer RTS/NOVA's? That's the way they sound to me. BIG AL
The bell on 9362 has a lower pitch than all the others.
I have just finished refurbishing NYCTA bus 5285. It looks great and will have the photos scanned in a few days. I am looking for 4 division Logos from East New York. Can anyone help me out?
I see that Green Bus has new Orion Suburbans-719, etc. I wonder how long the destination signs will last??
Those are ex-New York Bus Service Orions #1711-1714! 1999 Orion V Suburbans.
R142 Boi 2K
If it wasn't for the fact that they're diesel buses, not CNG, they look somewhat like the Triboto and QS Orions, and use the same type of signs, like the ones the RTS buses use.
719-722 are 1999 models. The CNG'S at QS and CTC are late 1998-early 1999 models. The 400 locals at QS are late 1999 models. That's the reason why they look similar.
QM15#722Gary
Yesterday I spotted all 4 MCI Classics from Green Lines operating for New York Bus Service, the numbers are 1711-1714. I was a Marcus Garvey Park for about 4 hours yesterday when all 4 came through in this order:
1712 on the Co-op City Line
1714 on the Morris Park Line
1713 on the Pelham Bay Line
1711 on the Parkchester Line
Looks like they took the place of the old 1711-1714 which were the 1999 Orion V Suburbans. I knew these had to be the Classics that Green Lines sent in place of the Orions. The paint is that of the normal NYBS Classics not like buses #1688 and #1696. The paint was "Bling Blinging" in the sun.
R142 Boi 2K
Yesterday after my excursion to Marcus Garvey Park. On my way back to the A train, I saw Orion VI Hybrids #6355 and 6356 coming down Saint Nicholas Avenue. Just like the NYBS Classics, the body was "Bling Blinging" from the sun glare.
Was a beautiful day for photography!!!!!!!
R124 Boi 2K
Saw 6355 on the M5 this afternoon along 5th Ave.
-Hank
Note,,these routes originate from all depots
#1 Train to 242 st
#1 train to 215 st
#1 TRAIN TO DYCKMAN ST
#1 TRAIN TO 168 ST
#1 TRAIN TO 137 ST
#1 TRAIN TO 96 ST
#1 TRAIN TO CHAMBERS ST
#1 TRAIN TO SOUTH FERRY
#2 RTAIN TO 241 ST
#2 TRAIN TO 238 ST
#2 TRAIN TO GUN HILL R
#2 TRAIN TO E. 180 ST
#2 TRAIN TO 149 - 3 AV
#2 TRAIN TO 149 ST - CONCRSE
Q TRAIN TO QUEENS PLAZA
@2 TRAIN TO 96 ST
#2 TRAIN TO FRANKLIN AV
#2 TRAIN TO NOSTRAND - E PKY
#2 TRAIN PRESIDENT ST
@2 TRAIN TO CHURCH AV
#2 TRAIN TO FLATBUSH AV
LENOX TERM
148 POWELL L3
135- LENOX L3
#3 TRAIN TO UTICA AV
#3 TRAIN TO PENN AV
#3 TRAIN TO NEW LOTS AV
#4 TRAIN TO WOODLAWN
#4 TRAIN TO BEDFORD PK BL
#4 TRAIN TO 161 ST
#4 TRAIN TO 149 ST - CONCRSE
#4 TRAIN TO 138 ST - #6
#4 TRAIN TO 125 ST
#5 TRAIN TO DYRE AV
#5 TRAIN TO PELHAM PKY
#5 TRAIN TO PELHAM PKY - #2
#5 TRAIN TO E 180 ST
#6 TRAIN TO PELHAM BAY PK
#6 TRAIN TO WESTCHESTER SQ
#6 TRAIN TO PARKCHESTER
#6 TRAIN TO HUNTS POINT AV
#6 TRAIN TO 138 ST
#6 TRAIN TO 125 ST
#6 TRAIN TO 86 ST
#6 TRAIN TO 63 ST - Q
#6 TRAIN TO 59 ST
#6 TRAIN TO GRAND CENTRAL
#6 TRAIN TO 23 ST - R
#7 TRAIN TO VERNON JACKSON
#7 TRAIN TO QUEENSBORO PLZ
#7 TRAIN TO 33 ST
#7 TRAIN TO 61 ST
#7 TRAIN TO 65 ST
#7 TRAIN TO 74 ST - ROOSEVELT
#7 TRAIN TO WILLETS POINT
#7 TRAIN TO MAIN ST
S I R T SHUTTLE - ST GEORGE FERRY
S I R T SHUTTLE - TOTTENVILE
S I R T SHUTTLE - GREAT KILLS
#1 TRAIN TO 66 ST
#6 TRAIN TO HUNTS POINT AV
STORM ROUTE
#2 TRAIN TO 103 ST - C
#1 TRAIN TO BOWLING GREEN - #4
COASTAL STORM
EMERGENCY ROUTE
RECEPTION CTR
EVACUATION CTR
TO SUBWAY
#3 TRAIN TO 145 ST - #1
#2 TRAIN TO 125 ST - #1
#2 TRAIN TO 110 ST - #1
#2 RTAIN TO 138 ST- #4
#2 TRAIN TO 125 ST - #4
#2 TRAIN TO 116 ST - #6
#2 TRAIN TO 110 ST - #6
#2 TRAIN TO 96 ST - #6
DIV B1 AND B2 NEXT,,,,KEEP IN MIND,,THESE SIGNS ARE ON ALL DEPOT LISTINGS
IF YOU SEE SOMETHING NEW,,OR DIFFERENT ,PLZ LET ME KNOW
TO KEEP UP WITH THE NEWER ITEMS FOR YEAR 2000,,
HTTP://WWW.EGROUPS.COM/GROUP/NYCBUSNEWS
STEVE
Once, there was a shuttle replacing #1 service and if I remember right, it just said "SUBWAY SHUTTLE".
I was unamused about how they prevented people from paying. The driver just put a folded MC Transfer into the MC slot. Why can't the buses have bags in them to cover the whole top of the farebox?
IIRC, that's what they did when shuttle buses were substituting the Franklin Avenue Shuttle.
Putting a folded up MetroCard transfer is also common when the farebox doesn't work and everyone gets a free ride.
I remember, in the early 1990's, when lots of drivers used the plain "S I R T SHUTTLE" reading, thinking it meant "Subway-IRT"! They didn't like being reminded that (1) SIRT was for Staten Island and (2) the IRT was no longer a distinct private company.
Hi
Does anyone want me to continue posting these signs for the IND and BMT
Steve
Go ahead!
Q TRAIN TO QUEENS PLAZA
A TRAIN TO 207 ST
A TRAIN TO DYCKMAN ST
A TRAIN TO 175 ST
TO 168 ST
TO 145 ST
TO JAY ST
TO HOYT=SCHERMERHORN
TO UTICA AV
A TRAIN TO EUCLID AV
A TRAIN TO GRANT AV
A TRAIN TO 80 ST
A TRAIN TO ROCKAWAY BL
A TRAIN TO LEFFERTS BL
A TRAIN TO HOWARD BCH
A TRAIN TO B 98 ST
A TRAIN TO B 90 ST
A TRAIN TO B 67 ST
A TRAIN TO FAR ROCKAWAY
---------------------------------
FOLLOWING SIGNS PROCEED WITH
B TRAIN TO
B 36 ST
9 AV
60 ST
BAY PKY
B 50 ST
CONEY ISLAND
--------------------------------
C TRAIN TO
ROKCKAWAY PK
B 67 ST
B 90 ST
EUCLID AV
----------------------------------
D TRAIN TO
205 ST
BEDFORD PK BL
BEDFORD PK BL - #4
DEKALB AV
ATLANTIC AV
PROSPECT PK
KINGS HWY
BRIGHTON BCH
W 8 ST
CONEY ISLAND
-------------------------------------
E TRAIN TO UNION TPK
E/F TRAIN TO UNION TURNPIKE
-------------------------------------
F TRAIN TO
179 ST
169 ST
PARSONS BL
E/F TRAINS TO VAN WYCK BL
SECOND AV
CHURCH AV
DITMAS AV
18 AV
KINGS HWY
AV X
NEPTUNE AV
W 8 ST
CONEY ISLAND
------------------------------------
G TRAIN TO QUEENS PLZ
G TRAIN TO COURT SQ
G TRAIN TO BEDFORD -NOSTRAND
-----------------------------------
H TRAIN TO ROCKAWAY BL
-----------------------------------
S TRAIN TO
HOWARD BCH
B 98 ST
B 90 ST
B 67 ST
ROCKAWAY PK
FAR ROCKAWAY
-------------------------------------
FOLLOWING SIGNS ARE PROCEEDED WITH
J TRAIN TO
BROAD ST
CHAMBERS ST
CANAL ST
ESSEX ST
MARCY AV
MYRTLE AV
BWAY JCT
CRESCENT ST
CYPRESS HILL
JAMAICA VIA E
----------------------------------
L TRAIN TO
BEDFORD AV
LORIMER ST
MYRTLE AV
BWAY JCT
CANARSIE
------------------------------------
M TRAIN TO
METROPOLITAN AV
WYCKOFF AV
BWAY
------------------------------------
N TRAIN TO
DITMARS BL
QUEENSBORO PLZ
KINGS HWY
CONEY ISLAND
-----------------------
Q TRAIN TO
QUEENSBORO PLZ
ROOSEVELT IS
21 ST-QUEENSBRIDGE
------------------------
R TRAIN TO
95 ST
86 ST
59 ST
-------------------------
SHUTTLE TO
PROSPECT PK
SUBWAY STA
SHUTTLE TO
FULTON ST
SUBWAY STA
--------------------------
A/F TRAINS TO JAY ST
A TRAIN TO 98 ST
A TRAIN EXPRESS TO HOWARD BEACH
A TRAIN TO EUCLID AV
A TRAIN LOCAL TO HOWARD BEACH
A TRAIN LOCAL TO EUCLID AV
---------------------------------
D TRAIN TO 86 ST - N
-------------------------
E TRAIN TO QUEENS PLAZA
E TRAIN TO QNSBORO PLZ
E/F TRAIN TO ROOSEVELT AV
E TRAIN TO NORTHERN BL
E TRAIN TO 23 - ELY AV
E TRAIN TO 36 ST
F TRAIN TO JAY ST
N TRAIN TO OCEAN PKWY - D
M TRAIN TO FOREST AV
N TRAIN TO ATLANTIC AV
R TRAIN TO 36 ST
F TRAIN TO EAST BROADWAY
F TRAIN TO VAN WYCK BL
F TRAIN TO BWAY = LAFAYETTE
E/F TRAINS TO
FOREST HILLS - 71 AV
R TRAIN TO NORTHERN BL
F TRAIN TO QUEENS PLZ
E TRAIN TO 121 ST - J
F TRAIN TO 23 ELY AV
G TRAIN TO NASSAU AV
=======================================
J TRAIN TO
SPRING ST - #6
PRINCE ST- N
LORIMER ST
GRAHAM AV - L
MONTROSE AV - L
BEDFORD AV -L
LORIMER - L
UTICA AV - A
RALPH AV - A
NOSTRAND AV - A
JAY ST - A
HIGH ST - A
FLUSHING AV - A
GATES AV - A
MARCY AV - J
-------------------------------
Q TRAIN TO
59 ST - #6
LEXINGTON AV
57 ST
47-50 STS
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND,,,THESE ROUTES COME OUT OF ALL DEPOT (SIGNS)
THEY ARE POSTED HERE,,FROM THE ACTUAL ORDER ON THE SIGNS
THE FORMAT IS ALWAYS THE SAME
#1 TRAIN TO 242 ST
STEVE
Use all caps like that, you don't get anywhere. Remember, the URL's are case sensitive. A URL of
http://www.blah.com/blahblahblah
will be different from
http://www.blah.com/BlahBlahBlah.
the URL should be typed like this:
http://www.egroups.com/group/nycbusnews.
However, DOMAINS are not cap sensitive.
www.yada.com is the same as WWW.YADA.COM or www.Yada.com.
It also depends on the server software. Apache generally isn't case-sensitive, but many others are.
-Hank
Dear All,
I post my material ,here,to help you out.The sarcasm ,etc,,is really unecessary .Please note that I am not computer literate,I am a FDNY Dispatcher only ,my interest is RR and Buses,plus weather
If you people want,,I will cease posting my material ,here,,and I will stick to the NYCBUSNEWS .
If anyone does not understand this,,contact me on smokiecat@webtv.net
Steve
I wonder if they use Artics on Subway Shuttles?
M79#5300Gary
What is wrong with you. You say you are not computer literate, I try to help you by telling you about domains and such, and you decide to call me sarcastic. YOU SHOULD LEARN HOW TO COMMUNICATE WITH PEOPLE!
Or maybe you should put insensitive age limits onto your bus boards, or compain when I post an on-topic message about a Royal Island bus merger.
I talked to my friend who is a bus operator and gave me some info. Is this true???????
1. ENY is looking to get rid of the Q24 and Q56???? I do not think that make any sense.........
2. FLA sent a few 3400's to FP?????? He said that FLA is supposed to get 34 new buses(5100s???) FP always get FLA used products. First the 4700's, then 8100's, now the 3400's. Also some 1400's went to FP from FLA.........
B14#4987Mike
B46#5111Mike
B20#5059Mike
1. Depots do not "look" to acquire or divest themselves of routes. Department of Buses senior management makes decisions as to which routes run out of which depots. As far as I'm aware (and I'm in a position to know), there are no plans to move ANY Brooklyn bus routes in the near future.
2. I haven't seen any ex-Flatbush 3400s running on Fresh Pond routes or ex-Fresh Pond 5100s running on Flatbush routes (and since I work in downtown Brooklyn I'd probably see it if it happened), but anything's possible. And the 5100s aren't quite new; they're a year old.
We've covered the subject of rumors before. They are generally started because people a) want something to happen; b) DON'T want something to happen; or c) want to see how much of a rise they can get out of people by CLAIMING something's going to happen. In short, don't listen to rumors. What will happen will happen when it happens.
David
1. According to the bus roster, 3420, 3460, and 3461 is @ FP.
2. I did not say that the 5100's were coming fron FP or anywhere for that matter. I just said that FLA is to get 34 "NEW" busses. If they are a year old, I think that is still new......
Look at the title of the thread and you will know why I asked instead of stating it as a fact. Because of speculations and rumors.
BTW, I saw 5346 on the B83 yesterday.....:):):):)
B46M Limited
5346????? That's not even a bus...
5346 is a New Flyer D60 artic.
David
Not yet it ain't.
I'll bet it is. A month ago, 5340 was in service; why wouldn't 5346 be in service now?
Let's not get into a yes it is/no it isn't argument. There's no point.
David
5346 is in service. It was delivered weeks ago. The highest numbered artic is 5359 so far. In fact wasn't 5346 the bus featured in that NY Post article?
3460 and 3461 were never at Flatbush.
David
Wrong. 3460 was a regular on the B46. Ive seen 3461 on the B44 as well.......
B46#3460Mike
B44#3461Mike
The 4700s FP has came from UP. They got the 8100s when they were new. I saw 3460 on the Q58 on Monday at Wyckoff Ave.
Actually, the 4700s in Fresh Pond came from Flatbush. The 4700s (and upper 4600s) in GLEASON came from Ulmer Park. The 8100s in Fresh Pond also came from Flatbush. Fresh Pond was supposed to get all of Flatbush's 8100s when Flatbush got its 9000s (which are now gone), but that never happened.
David
Per a just completed phone call to the transit museum, I was informed that the BUS FESTIVAL 2000 is scheduled for SEPTEMBER 16, 2000.
Let's hope for a nice sunny day. I'll check back with them in a few weeks to be sure that hasn't been rescheduled.
[Let's hope for a nice sunny day.]
We hoped for one, and we got one! Pictures should be up on my site on Monday.
Can't wait to see them, site address please?
TransiTALK has just posted pics from the Festival, Both NYC and Hoboken.
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.com
Click to go to the page that will have them.
I just visited your site.
An interior shot of 5227 is bad or something like that.
I just visited your site.
An interior shot of 5227 is bad or something like that. I can only see the top part of the picture.
I saw #1148 on the Q11. I noticed that the side sign was at the bottom of the window. I also noticed that some Q88 buses run up 59th Avenue to Queens Boulevard.
What time were you there today? I saw 1147-ex QS 277 on the QM15.
1148 is former QS # 276. QS 276 had a low destination sign along with 275 which is now GBL 1149. Also notice the rear sign on GBL 1149: it says AR. Said the same thing at its days at QS. The reason why the Q88 goes on 59 Ave to Queens Blvd is because they're dropping off passengers and deadheading back to QV depot.
Q88#4900Gary
I can't remember the exact time, but it was around 3:00 pm Wednesday.
I was there at 8am.
Q46#8357Gary
While driving through Co-op City this morning I noticed a Queens Surface Orion laying over. It appeared to have a bicycle rack similar to those used in Los Angeles mounted in the front. I was'nt able to see the number of the bus. Is this something new?
I've seen those bike racks mostly on the 450 series at QS. I took a pic of 451 on the Q34 with a bike rack recently. I'll email it to you once I get the opportunity to.
Q46#8356Gary
I don't have it handy, but I recollect that the latest timetable for the QBx1 over the Whitestone Bridge provides for carrying bikes in the non-rush hours. They will only carry bikes to/from the stops closest to the Whitestone Bridge in the Bronx and in Queens. Thus, the QS buses with bike racks must be used on the QBx1.
nycDOT bought a bunch of these a couple of years ago & were installed on a number of routes without much useage. Seemed like a good idea if you only had TWO customers who wanted to use the service.
Mr t__:^)
So that's what it is!
Strange where they put it, at the front. I guess it would be quite a reach if they put the bike rack on top of the bus!, and would cause too many problems inside.
I once rode the Queensboro Bridge pedestrian/bicycle shuttle and noticed bicycles inside the bus. No bike racks like on the QBx1. I guess they didn't have enough racks for both routes.
As I had posted several months ago, all Burlington Vermont RTS's have racks in the front of their buses.
A number of transit systems around the U.S. have bike racks on some, if not all, of their buses. The largest one I know of which has bike racks on every bus is Valley Metro (including Tempe Bolt) in Phoenix, Arizona. During my one or two visits to Phoenix each year, I've noticed quite a bit of usage by bikers, at least in the Tempe area.
I have a pic of QS 451 with a bike rack. If you wish to see it, email me and I'll send it to you. Thanks. BTW: Most of the 450 series like I said in an ealier post, are on the QBX1. Tonight, I saw 459 there and I rode 452 from Pelham Bay to Flushing and they both had bike racks.
Q66#384Gary
Valley Metro And Tempe Bolt Transit Have Bike Racks On Every Local/Express/Shuttle Bus. Bicycles are free and on average have 500 bicycle bordings and a unknown number of unclaimed bikes from the bike racks by bus operators.
Valley Metro And Tempe Bolt Transit Have Bike Racks On Every Local/Express/Shuttle Bus. Bicycles are free and on average have 500 bicycle bordings per day and a unknown number of unclaimed bikes from the bike racks by bus operators.
I spotted 6356 in service today on the M103, run double-oh seven [007], at 7:41 AM at City Hall today.
See the SI Advance article.
-Hank
they now state they will build a cng depot on staten island.previously they said it would be an express bus depot.as mci does not yet produce 45 foot cng buses this depo9t seems a good six years off.
In a brilliant clarification to Sheldon Silver's earlier statement to the the press, the SI Advance printed today that the new depot would NOT be CNG, but would be convertable TO CNG in the future.
-Hank
Are any of you hguys aware of any webistes that have the entire text of Article 19A (New York)/ aka Section 509 of the NYS VTL??
Please post the link here or email me direct.
I have searched and searched but i cant find it.
MM
I will be posting, tomorrow the info on 3 new promotion cards:
two more varieties fo net2phone and another new card--stay tuned!
I got the Bd of Ed card and it is a different design.
If any of you could, please e-mail me all info you have, and any ta/company quotes on the effects/properties CNG, LNG, Diesel, Hybrids, da da da, if you can, thanks :)
Ifanybody can get more info on where the Roadeo will be, more specific than 'South Beach Broadwalk', that'd be helpful, and times/dates n stuff, that'd be good too, but mainly where exactly it is, because just 'South Beach Broadwalk' is kinda vauge, because it's 2.3 miles long.
I just finished restoring NYCTA bus # 5285. The bus looks excellent and If anyone wants pics, I will be glad to trade for other NYC area pics.
Ok... what did they do to this piece of *****?
First, they gave it the same paint job and front and side numberingas the 84-85XX,
Second, in rainy weather you can barely see the front and side signs, and
Third, it's barely ever on the streets!!!!!
Hullo...
It's always on the streets! It's seems to always run on the M6 or the M14. I have seen this bus every chance I get which is everyday. I did not see today as of yet. Second, this bus seems to be the only 98 Nova RTS that has gone through a complete repaint at Hudson. All of these buses from the first 8000 series RTS from TMC is supposed to be equipped with front destination sign glass defrosters and they never seem to work but I don't think they defog. But to answer your question 9515 is fine and she is always out and about.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
...I visited San Francisco one year ....MAN ! you should have seen that QUIET FAST trolley bus RACE-UP
those steep steep san francisco hills ........What a wonderful experence !!
any complaints or right ons out there ??...( not just san francisco ! ) ......
I've been on the #1 route in San Francisco a number of times over the years, and have marveled at the way the trolley buses are able to get up those hills. To be sure, when they are loaded with people, there is sometimes a strain, but nothing as bad as the deisel buses on the hills there. If I'm not mistaken, many of those trolley buses are slated to be replaced in the next couple of years. They are fairly old, as I recollect. By the way, the articulated trolley buses in S.F. are very nice to ride.
I was crossing Queens Blvd and I saw a bus coming up 48 Str towards Queens Blvd. From a distance it appeared to be a QS TMC. Then I thought it was a Q32 deadheading and starting up at 47 St and Queens Blvd. To my surprise, it was GBL 1178. Why would a GBL Bus be coming from Northern Blvd? Also a little note, the driver appeared to be a lost mechanic.
Q60#5503Gary
Could be a lost mechanic out on a long test drive - or perhaps testing it on Q104 route to see if it can take the hill on 48th from 43rd Ave south to Qns. Blvd.
But Queens Surface operates the Q104.
Q46#8357Gary
Ture, but maybe they were testing this bus on the route in anticipation of a transfer of equipment between companies. Or perhaps a mechanic had it out on an extended test and wanted to try a hill with it.
Maybe he came over the bridge and wound up on Northern Blvd. accidently.
Another day another thought on the subject. Since he was s/b on 48th could he have been on Bridge gotten on to Northern and was making a turnaround to contine back to the bridge to complete or start a new Q60 run ????
Like I posted, it seemed like a mechanic was driving the bus when I saw her. Why would he make a deadhead trip out to 47 St in Queens to make another trip over the Bridge WestBound on a Saturday night at 7? I think he was testing the bus out somehow for something.
Q60#1148Gary
I got a quick look of a bus accident in Flushing tonight. This was at Main and Roosevelt. There was an OOS bus that was sideswiped by a coach bus.
I forgot the bus number, I think it's a 500 Orion. Damage was not too bad, but the engine cover was bent up and there was alot of debris.
There was a large traffic jam because of the accident, blocking one lane of Roosevelt avenue.
I guess none of the buses could move. Anybody with information on what happened to the bus involved post it here.
Well with today's heat, very few of the LI Bus routes I was on had air conditioning. There was no A/C on the N21, which was diesel Orion 594.
And on bus 114, which was on the N23, there was no A/C either, and that one was crowded. I sighted many buses at Mineola with all windows open, which means most had no A/C.
All the city buses I was on today had good air conditioning, as well as the subways. On the N21 going home there was A/C on the N21 to Great Neck, then it shut off (was diesel Orion 628).
And 628 had a bad brake problem, those breaks squeeled so bad it was deafening. Why are such LI Buses in such bad condition? Why do so many not have A/C yet?
John, you must be a new poster to this board. If so, welcome!!! If you scan back over the past several months you will see postings regarding the horrendous fiscal shape Nassau County has been in under the stewardship (?) of Joseph Mondello, Tom Gulotta and the rest of the Republican idiots. The county is near bankruptcy due to their fiscal incompentence and political pork-barrelling. Because of their shortsightedness there is no money for LI BUS. Witness the recent raid by Gulotta on some of the funds Dean Skelos got out of Albany.
Its a great sight to see one Republican embarras another one. Proof that a one party rule does not work in a democracy.
He is obviously not a new poster to the board!
Next time before making your baseless assumptions, search the archives.
Well I've been here on and off. I am very aware of trouble Nassau is in, and had a feeling it's affecting the maintainance of LI Bus.
What's going on with that proposal for the MTA to take over LI Bus?
I sure hope they approved it!
Hopefully it will come to fruition. I think it is a lot of talk and politcal posturing at this point. It will depend on what kind of budget plan Modello, Gulotta and the legislature comes up with and how the bond rating agencies react by downgrading (or not) the Nassau County Bonds.
Also depends on what plan Pataki's man (Frank Zarb) comes up with and how it impacts Pataki's image.
Wonderful! Another way to screw New Yorkers to support suburbanite leeches. If Nassau County wants to be bailed out by NYC taxes, then it should pay them.
The January 1, 1899 act creating Nasty County should be repealed.
Well someone has to bail out LI Bus. Service sucks as it is. Most of you guys in NYC won't get stranded at 8 or 9pm. But that's exactly what happened today. I was in Levittown and I needed to catch the N73 to Hicksville, but since it runs down Gardeners I had to get a bus down there first. Now usually buses run every 5 or 10 minutes (N70/71/72) but the bus was royally late, no bus for 20 minutes!
Then we got to Gardeners just as the N73 was pulling away. This was the last N73 to Hicksville, and it was running a little early. But the driver didn't wait for our bus, which was stopped at a traffic light.
Then I figure I can catch another bus eastbound to catch the N81 to Hicksville. I waited another 20 or 25 minutes for that bus, this time I complained to the driver about being late and told him that I needed to make the N81 at Stewart ave in Bethpage. He said he cannot (or will not) get that bus to wait for it's connection.
I got there at the time the bus was to have been there (8:23pm) but the N81 bus was already gone, again running early and missing connecting passengers.
And I do have all the schedules and made sure the buses would make it there 10 minutes or more before the connection, but both were late!
End result is I would up having to call a friend to take me home because the bus service sucks. The excuse for the lateness, breakdowns, accoding to the bus drivers. How about this? Just get buses that actually run without stalling all the time and maybe we could have reliable buses? That's exactly why MTA needs to take over LI Bus, we need MTA running buses, not as a county agency.
All the s*** I had today definately makes me want to get a car. It seems there are plenty of people who just don't give a damn about improving bus service in Nassau county, whether it's the wealthy who don't want their taxes raised or some people in NYC upset that their funds are going to help out the poor and car-less in Nassau county.
BTW, there aren't any "suburbanites" that ride LI Bus. Most riders are servants, day laborers, and are mostly minority. I see more yuppies on city buses than I do on Long Island Bus, so just remember who these cuts effect!
Nevertheless, these are the people who allow the suburbs to work, if they did not have the bus system to use, then the suburbs would collapse into the trash heap that they are. Most people in the suburbs think the bus system is usless, but they don't realize how much of their horrid (OK, that's just an opinion) lifestyle is influenced by the people who NEED the busses. New York City residents should not bail out the shortcomings of these idiots. I pity the county that manages to drive itself into a financial hole in the middle of the LONGEST PERIOD OF PROSPERITY IN AMERICAN HISTORY. I cannot begin to think how stupid the county government there must be. Nasty County deserves to be put out of it's misery.
Slightly off topic but last night on Channel 12 News, Joseph Mondello, head of the Republican Party admitted to Scott Feldman, reporter, that he is worried about losing the State offices (assembly and State senate) elections in November. He also is livid that the County Executive (Gulotta) and Minority Leader of the Legislature(Schmitt) are publicly at each other's throats. Obviously there are some chinks in the armor. Hopefully the Democrats can capitalize on this and make some gains in November. Maybe then something can be done for the poor at LI Bus.
Yesterday, I was waiting for the Q60 in front of the Queens Center Mall, and I saw two buses on Green Lines with all the windows open, which of course, when the temperature gets up to about 80 or 90 degrees Fahrenheit, as it was yesterday, means there is no air conditioning. The first bus was #10001. I passed up ridfing that one, and waited for the next bus, assuming it had A/C. Instead, #642 pulled up to the bus stop in the same condition as #10001. Good thing I had a bottle of ice water handy. It was HOT in there! They sould make a law: whenever the forecast temperature is above 80 degrees Fahrenheit, any bus that does not have working air conditioning will not run in passenger service.
Get this: last summer, I rode 5537 with no a/c. Green Lines has a poor maintenance shop. Most of the a/c on those buses were broken or weren't working. But then again I was on a lot of 1000 series buses.
Let's just hope that the new buses they got from QS run a lot on Q60 and have a blasting a/c.
Q60#5503Gary
642 is a hand-me-down from Command (391) -no wonder why the A/C don't work. So far to my knowledge, there hasn't been too many problems with the a/c at QS cause I rode 448 on Q104 Saturday and boy was she freezing when I got in there. Triboro? I'll have to ride a few buses-maybe today to find out if they're having any problems- I predict that they do.
Q18#2828Gary
Can't wait to get on that bus! I'm melting here!
Well, there's 1 QS Bus that you don't want to ride on on a slow-moving route: I rode 341 today on the QBX1 and despite that there was no working a/c on her, it didn't bother me cause this bus was moving over the Whitestone Br. 456 on the other hand, was also moving on QBX1 but had a working a/c. I did happen to ride 1 ctc(triboro coach) bus today: 739 on Q47- the a/c did work on her. Here's a list what I rode today and if the A/C worked or not:
665 Q48-a/c worked but didn't feel it that much.
1172 Q60- a/c didn't work at all.
486 Q104 a/c worked-full blast.
QBX1#456Gary
I propose that the law be written in the official measurement system of the United States*. 26.67o C. We can round it to 25o C.
*Adopted April 5, 1893 by Mendenhall Order, and over 100 years later we still use the ridiculous system.
People use things they're used to: Fahrenheit scale, feet, inches, miles, $1 bills, etc.
People don't read laws. The laws must be written in the official systems of the United States. Should we write laws in Spanish? Although in this case, English is not an official language, SI is the official measurement system.
And people tend to be stubborn and resistant to change, one thinks that the best way to do something is the best way ONLY because they are used to it. This follows the same logic as the foolish statement: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
It's grammar clearly shows that only a fool would follow it's logic.
If it is not broken, then do not fix it.
All you're doing is rephrasing the same ridiculous statement, one which promotes stagnation and lack of progress.
Well I was lucky on Sunday, most of the buses had A/C. But today I was riding some buses on the N19 and N70 and they had no A/C. But it wasn't that bad because the south shore of Nassau was pretty cool today. Of course by the time I got home to my "hot town" on the north shore it was still near 80F!
There was such a nice breeze blowing down in Wantagh, but here it's like an oven, even at night. Anybody who's been around Long Island knows how much hotter it is on the north shore (Glen Cove,etc), and that the sea breeze can really make a hot day much more bearable in Wantagh. I used to live there, and I sure miss that sea breeze.
Of course I got loused up by missing two connections to get back home thanks to late buses missing connections. I got stranded in Levittown and a friend had to take me home. Gotta love that LI Bus!
Tuesday night, as I was sitting in comfort on the QM1A, I caught a glimpse of the poor souls on JBL 601. It sure looked like a tortured ride for those folks on that MCI Classic. I sure wouldn't want to be on that bus for any length of time, especially seeing how limited the window openings were.
When NYCTA "Restored" 236 why did they not do the lower panels and rims the gray that they were originally?
Looks like they used an RTS for the basis of the "Restoration"
Pity they did not save the "Bat Wing" 631.
What of the rumors that NYCTA did a "Bat Wing" RTS?
M1 (The M1 and only)
Grey lower panels? Only on Road Champs HO scale models. :-)
I just checked some slides I took of the NYCTA Grumman 870's when they were brand new and the lower panels and wheels were dark blue like the striping on the bus.
Must have been a faded shot I used for a basis for my inquiry.
Kind of blusih gray I almost was going to say.
M1 (The M1 and only)
Must have been faded -- or maybe it was covered with winter slop. The blue on the lower panels was the same as on the stripe under the windows -- and it was a very dark blue. Darker than the blue now used on NYCTA fleet.
Some of the photos available within the New York Subway Resources web pages even show the doors to be that dark blue, but I don't remember that, only the "standard" black doors (actually, I have seenonly ONE property that did not paint the doors black -- Pierce Transit in tacoma, WA -- they did their doors white).
Which is a faster connection from La Guardua to Grand Central. Mid day, Mid week The Q33 and 7 Subway, or the M60 and 4/5 Lines?
My vote would go to the Q33 and 7 train.. essentially whichever has the shorter bus ride assuming the rails are running ok.
It was posted earlier here that if a driver changes divisions, they will lose senority. Do they keep their current badge?
Second, if you stay in the same depot but it changes divisions (ex: AMS from Manhattan to Bronx), do you still lose senority?
Third, if your route moves from one division to another (unlikely, but the M100 could start coming out of 126th), and you stayed with your route, do you lose senority?
Badges stay the same unless you lose your badge or break it and then you get a new one.
In Mabstoa you can switch divisions and depots and retain your senority. If you go from Manhattanville to Kingsbridge you'll keep your senority for that year in your new depot.
If a line goes to another depot you can follow the line if it remains in MABSTOA. For instance the M116 was transferred to 126St depot from Amsterdam. All OA operators are out of luck and cant follow the line. However when the m60 and m2 went to MTV from Mother Hale many operators followed the line and retained their senority.
It may be a little confusing but I hope I broke it down so you may understand it.
I understnad that part now, thank you, but what happens if a driver wants to transfer from a TA to a TA, a TA to an OA, or an OA to a TA?
you go from bklyn to queens - you lose it
you go from a queens depot to another queens depot - you lose it
you stay in brooklyn for life - you keep seniority in all of brooklyn
Recently many OA operators take a TA test as well. They are given an option to go to Ta after starting at Oa but they lose their senority and they must undergo the probation peroid again.
Otherwise you cannot swtch over from Oa to Ta.
The TA drivers are considered "civil servants" positions and the MABSTOA drivers are not even though the jobs are exactly the same.
It goes back to 1962 when the TA took over the Fifth Ave Coach line routes. At that time they chose not to make the drivers "city emplyoees" so they did not have to give them the same benefits as the TA workers. The salary is the same but TA drivers have much better benefits. So if an operator moves from MABSTOA to the TA you start from scratch all over again. Since the TA job is better you do not go the other way.
Acording to the new union contract they will consider a merger between the TA and MABSTOA. Basically they are waiting for all Tier 1 drivers to retire which should happen in the newxt two years .
Hope this helps you
Thank You
as far as tier 1 drivers retiring in two years many of us may be around longer than that.
What's "Tier 1"?
Those employees who were originally employees of the Fifth Ave Coach Company.
-Hank
Oh ok.
While Ta has advantages such as more advancement opportunites and more sick days OA has advantages as well. Being able to switch from depot to depot without losing senority is great. In the years I operated I worked in Mother Hale, Amsterdam and Manhattanville depots being able to work many different lines. Also since we are not civil servants discipline is much more lax than TA. Once promoted to superindendent you can go anyway in the department from Oa to Ta to Bus maintainence to Road Control to training center!
If I had to start all over I probably would have started at TA however to get a chance at Train Operator.
"Also since we are not civil servants discipline is much more lax than TA"
In what ways? Is it in the way you described after that about getting to the level of superintendent? And what happens when you get to level of Superintendent in the TA?
For instance if you get a violation for disruption of service or uniform noncompliance in Ta the discipline is set in the civil service law, while at OA theres a lot of wheeling and dealing before any serious discipline is handed out.
No matter where a superindendent is promoted from he is TA at his new level. He can work anywhere Ta wants to put him. A Bronx Oa dispatcher promoted to Supt. can be reassigned to Queens. A Queens Disp. once promoted can be assigned to Mahhattan Road Control and so forth.
There is no picking or senority rights for management.
Thank you, you have been very helpful.
Is there any other info on this topic that you or anyone else here knows of?
When MaBSTOA was created, it wasn't to avoid giving civil service benefits to the drivers and maintainers.
Many of Fifth Avenue Coach's employees were "ineligible" for civil service status. [In the interest of maintaining the peace, I will not elaborate on such "ineligibility."] A non-civil-service entity "had" to be created to preserve jobs.
Originally, the separation was set in stone and never questioned. Today, MaBSTOA has become little more than a paper fantasy and a bookkeeping gimmick.
I was on several buses today, and fortunately LI Bus had A/C in today's blazing temps. I notice that the CNG's are slower with A/C on, but it seemed that the diesels labor even more with the A/C.
Was on one of the "newer Orions" from CS on the Q27 this afternoon,
bus 6122, very sluggish with the A/C and noisy too. The engine was hesitating real bad.
Which type of bus performs the best with A/C, which one performs the worst?
I think it's quite noticeable on any vehicle, but I always found the 1981 and 1983 GM RTS to be slow with the A/C on.
Those awesome GMDD T8H-5308A's at NYBS seem to run away from anything even with the A/C on.
Wayne
In Memphis, TN the old look buses had a separate motor for the A/C (complete with a separate exhaust pipe for those units) and they did great, however the goldfish bowls- especially their 800 series (rthe first goldsigh bowls they ordered)had such poor performance on hills that the drivers had to turn off the A/C to climb overpasses. Even some of their 900 and 100 (newest Goldfish bowls) had the same problem and their a/c had lower BTU output!
I have been told that the AC can draw as muck as 40 hp from and engine. The 6V71's only had 180 to start with
The 6V92 and 8V71's did much better. The T8H 5308A's had a nice set up because the engine was large and the new look bus is much lighter than an RTS. Most of the 8V-71's ran in the 270 HP range, but had enough low end torque to handle the AC and Acceleration of the bus.
Those 8V-71's are amazing indeed! The T8H-5308A's from NYBS rock with the AC full blast. Also to add on to your post, The current RTS's and Orion's here at NYCTA have a power reduction of 30 HP when the HVAC compressor is in use. The New Flyer Galaxy D60HF's are amazing also, to me they have the coolest AC by far and still have the gusto to get up and go!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Many operators at Mother Hale have been complaining to me that in the past few days their buses have lost a lot of power with the A/c's running. Especially the older orions like 175 and 192.
No promblem with the 6000's but I have noticed that they have slowed down a bit also.
When I operated the RTS's the worst ones affected by the A/c were the 4400's and the 8000's. Terrible going up hills and bridges.
Was on 8359 on Q88 today- it was super slow with the a/c on.
Q46#8357Gary
I have driven every year RTS made, from 1981-1999 and have noticed a major decrease in acceleration when the A/C is on. The 9500 series RTS at NYC transit is absolutely dreadful to drive in the summer. However, the problem is not only confined to buses. Not to get off the bus subject, but I drive 2 cars. One, a 1988 Crysler 2.2 turbo Lebaron that I would swear I can run faster when the A/C is going. The other car, a 1992 Lexus SC400, has no difference at all when the A/C is going full blast. That goes to show that quality in every type of motor vehicle makes a big difference. BIG AL
Those mid 600 CNG Orions at LI Bus (657-666) are slow as hell with the A/C. Had 662 on the N21 today and it was running late. The driver said that he had a slow bus. Man, did that thing crawl. It really struggled on the hills too.
"The 9500 series RTS at NYC transit is absolutely dreadful to drive in the summer."
How do you mean this exactly? In acceleration, tempature-wise...
and the other day I was riding 9507, and it was definetly going faster with the A/C on.
Good question! I would have to say that the 95xx, 96xx, and 51/52xx series RTS's out of Hudson move well with crush load and A/C running than their 82,84 and 85xx counterparts. But from a driving standpoint I would not have a clue since I am not an operator.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
All of that being said, I would rather have a slow bus with AC when needed then no AC at all.
9507 was FASTER with the A/C on? Maybe you can get some of the mechanics from that depot over to Jamica too look at our 9500's. Most of them are S-L-O-W, S-L-O-W, S-L-O-W. Many of the operators complained to management that it was a safety issue because it was hard to merge into traffic with these buses. With the A/C on they are even worse. That's what I meant when I said they are dreadful too drive in the summer. However, I will admit that the A/C works very well. The buses are quite cold. Too bad the poor acceleration takes away the pleasure to drive them. BIG AL
Wow! That does pose a dangerous situation! I do notice that the 95/96xx series RTS's at Hudson have a delay when the driver hits the accelerator. This most previlent on the 9600's. These buses will drag and then all of a sudden the power kicks in and they accelerate faster. Must have something to do with the way the electronic control system is configured. Hopefully the units at JAM will be adjusted to prevent accidents from happening.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
I just realized why some of the 9500s here are this fast (as well as 5194, good accel, excellent A/C.
On some on the buses all over the city I've heard that they get governed at a higher speed.
Al, how are the 8900's and the 5100's at JAM?
The 8900's are the best. Good acceleration and pretty good a/c. I always like driving these buses not only because of the acceleration, but because the interlocks are easy to work. The only thing that bugs me about the 8900's is that they are starting to rattle alot. On the 9500's the interlock is very hard and usually you have to stomp it two or three times to get the back doors to open. Another reason why I can't stand the 9500's. But I've heard the Q.V. operators make the same complaint about their 9300's. So I would imagine all the buses from 9350-9699 are the same way. The 5100's are better. The acceleration is better than the 9500's but still not as good as the 8900's. The interlock is easier to work also than the 9500's. BIG AL
Your 8900's are like our 90XX buses.(9029,9034,9037-9039,9042-9047,9049) For some reason these 1996 RTS-06's seem to have better acceleration (with or without the A/C on) than our other's. The interlock is easier to use and they seem to ride a bit better also. These buses were built in May 1996 and were sent to Atlanta to provide transportation for the Olympics. When they arrived at 126th St. they had about 3,000 miles on the odometer. I wonder why they are so much better than our other 1996 RTS-06's? Maybe May 1996 was a good month at the Roswell assembly plant.
Hmm, most of the time the interlocks on the 9500's at hudson seem to work ok.
The interlocks on our 9500's work ok also. I merely said they are very hard to work. Harder than all the other RTS's we have. BIG AL
I have the latest version of my Bus Sign proigram out, and I thought I'd give the BusTalkers a small quiz with my bus signs.
BTW, you can download the ZIP file at my Download Center page.
AND NOW THE QUIZ:
A small Hint: The signs below are intended to portray current services. All spellings on the signs are based as Orions running on NYCB routes (except #522) would show them.
And a NOTE: All signs depicted below (except #4) are ficticious. No bus has ever displayed these signs (once again, except #4)...at least I don't think so.
Sign #1:
Sign #2:
Sign #3:
And finally...
Sign #4:
Enjoy!
Hey RM, Please contact me. I dont know if you have the capability to reprom the signs themselves, but if you do.... I have a buttload of Luminators and Transdot signs that I need reprogrammed for my buses. Please email me and I will give you my business number and would like to talk to you.
whats wrong with sign 3?
the info is correct ----- 10 years ago!!!!!!!!
Yes, but that was 10 years ago, not today. Then again, there weren't buses with signs like that 10 years ago. The first signs like #3 came with the 1993 Orions. Before that, they were one-line signs like #1, and some were older than that. IIRC, the Q44VP was called the Q74 in 1993.
O.K. Here are the answers:
1. Ride-On #4 doesn't go to Brooklyn's Kensington, or travel down a road called 7th Avenue (That would be NYCB B67). If it did, it would be a looooooooong ride!
2. NYCB B67 does NOT go to Silver Spring (That would be Ride-On #4). Ditto.
3. Q44VP is no longer called by that name. It is now Q74.
4. "CHURCH" is spelled incorrectly.
But there was a disclaimer on the original posts that said all the signs were ficticious anyway.....
They are ficticious, but that was in respect to the fact that they never appeared in real life (except #4). I intended that they would be interpreted as if they were real.
Now my wife, son and my wife's daily driver on the Q34 (Queens Surface) are all interested in going. I haven't seen any new postings on the Board lately, but any new info would be appreciated.
From what I've read, it looks like if you head down Father Cap from the Bridge, you're bound to bump into it, but I still would rather have specific information if other people are getting involved.
Thanks a lot!
If it's June 10, I won't be there. I've got THE most valuble tickets in town for that weekend. Again, Directions will be posted around Memorial Day.
-Hank
Mets VS Yankees????????
B46M Limited
Absolutely! I have other things to miss as well. My cousin's Sweet 16, my freind's daughter's birthday party...
-Hank
Sometimes, I see a bus on the Q60, then see the same bus on the Q11 the next day, or vice versa. For example, Saturday, I rode on #5550 (Former QS #704). The next day, I saw the same bus on the Q11. What's up with that?
It's pretty simple. Specific buses are rarely assigned to the same route day after day. Nor does each bus have the same driver day after day. The driver is the one with the schedule, and he takes the next available bus. The exception being, AFAIK, Liberty Lines, where when I get the bus, it's the same bus each time, in addition to the same driver. If I get the 9:12P bus this Wednesday, and again next Thursday, and again the following Friday, it's always the same bus and driver.
-Hank
I thought they did that at GBL also. I know they used to in the early 1980's.
Wayne
Don't they also do they for the express buses at QV and JAM?
Why? They should have the same driver on each run to provide more reliable service. That way, the driver gets to know his route and passengers and can provide better service.
They DO have the same driver on each run! The DRIVER picks his/her schedule!
They don't always get the same bus, which is why you see bus 1234 on the Q10232 on Tuesday, and on the Q2314231 on Thursday.
-Hank
Wait, this needs a little clarification:
They have the same driver on the same run daily, not on every run. I.E. the driver is regularly the 8PM, 9PM, 10PM, and 11PM northbound trip weekdays, but not ALL the trips every day.
-Hank
I think R.M. meant that the bus that is on the Q60 is usually the same exact bus vehicle that is on the Q11.
I think everybody is making a mountain out of an anthill on this subject. Too keep it simple, local bus operators DO NOT get the same exact bus everyday. Whatever bus is next in the line is the one that the operator is assigned. However, the more miles that will be driven for that particular run, the newer type of bus will be given out. But the general rule is first come, first served. It is not unusual for a particular bus to be on several routes in one day if each run it does has low miles, from the time it pulls out to the time it pulls in. In Jamaica depot, only the express operators get to keep the same bus everyday, generally for the whole pick. BIG AL
I haven't checked much lately, but I know that drivers at Tri-boro Coach, Liberty Lines, NYBS and Green Bus Lines definitely had regular buses at one time.
Wayne
Triboro Coach have the same local buses out on the road all the time. Everyday, I see 722 2828 and 716 on the Q18, 2818 which was a Q18 regular is now on the Q19B along with 2810. 2809 9 times out of 10 she's on the Q72 and 2819 is on the Q29. 2817 2821 and 2825 are Q53 TMC Regulars. As far as the 3000s are concerned, I see 3003 3004 and 3068 frequently on the Q53. 2801 and 679 are always on the Q45.
Q18#2828Gary
I thought TCC drivers still had regular buses, but I'm glad you (and others) noticed too.
Wayne
Triboro Coach comes pretty close to putting the same bus each day on the same run...before the Orions came in, I used to get 764 every morning on the first QM24 3Av run of the day, and I'd get 765 each night (same run, same driver, same bus.)
When I started taking the QM24W downtown, if 3 QM24s pulled in at the same time, I knew which one was the downtown run because one of the two ex-GBL RTSs had the run every day (I don't remember if it was 1183 or 1184, but it was the same one each day.)
Now, I don't always get the same Orion each night, although 3 out of 5 times it will be the same one; however I do see 2824 each night on the same Q45 runs.
I used to think that I could look at the bus # instead of the route # to tell which QM24 branch was pulling in to the stop; If TCC's destination signs were as bad as the ones on GBL's Orion's, that would actually be helpful.
I was on the J train yesterday and noticed #522, the bus with the orange signs, in the ENY yard. I wonder what it's doing there. Maybe it's going in for a sign transplant.
I think it's there for a repaint.
Q32#522Gary
On second thought (and look at it), I think it's going in for a repaint.
A question for you regular S.I. x-bus commuters. Has the air conditioning on the MCI coaches been adequately maintained. I know last the summer there were numerous complaints of buses being sent out with weak or inoperative a/c, and since the windows are sealed, it's torture. I went into my office today on the x1 and that MCI was cool. But the x4 (#1967) on the way back was warm but bearable once we got moving. So, have the MCIs generally been nice and cool or has the TA been neglecting the a/c. Nothing worse than a hot bus.
I hat to say it, but unfortunately yes. Why unfortunately? Because someone, somewhere, hasn't figured out how to set the thermostat properly, and those buses are like meat lockers! I grabbed my brother's ski thermometer last night; the bus I got this morning on the way in was chilled to a crisp 59 degrees! You can store vegetables at that temperature!
I have yet to encounter a bus that was 'just right' or had malfunctioning A/C.
-Hank
Did NYCTA order their MCI buses without the driver controlled thermostats?
The MCI's I have driven all have a selector on the dash, usually just to the right of the steering column. The driver would set the temperature, and the a/c would usually keep it within 2-3 degrees of that (verified by a readout next to the selector).
most greyhounds (MC-12s and up) have the digital thermometer on the dash to set the temp manually. and then the fights start bewteen driver and passenger. colder the better for the driver i say. let em freeze as long as you're awake.
i heard somwhere once before that a switch on the TA MCI was located in the first left side baggage bin door to switch the climate control over to a cooler mode or something like that for the summer months.
Now that you mention a "switch" in the first baggage compartment, I remember something to do with the a/c system being in the first baggage compartments on all the MCI's I drove. I don't know if it is the same nowadays.
It wasn't a switch -- but rather a fresh-air intake for the a/c system. It was a circular grille, you rotated it to either admit or block fresh air from mixing into the a/c system. If it was open, the a/c system sucked in warmer outside air from the baggage compartment, and if it was closed, it recirculated what air was already in the system. There was such an intake on both sides of the first baggage compartment, at the top of the front bulkhead.
Kinda like the a/c and max a/c switches on automobiles -- max a/c just closes the outside air vent so the air is recicrculated only when you select max a/c.
All buses should be that cold. I'm one of those guys that cranks up the a/c in his car when it's 80º outside. But I keep the c/a/c in my house at 74º, which is comfortable and cheaper than setting it at 72º.
Does the low horsepower of a bus engine have to do with the lack of power while running with the a/c on? Im sure the units take up a lot of power. Happens in small cars. Wonder if intercity buses with 450+ hp does the same thing.
I'm pretty sure it does, however, if you have a large displacement engine with lots of horsepower and low end torque... the A/C may not be such a burden on the engine. Once I drove a MCI 102C3 with the DD 8V-92TA engine with the A/C it didn't seem to be much of a power drain on the engine. I'd bet that it would've been quite noticable if that bus had a DD 6V-92TA engine.
Wayne
Monday to cut down on taxi fare from Dover.I rode the MCM #5 to Kenvil Avenue at Corwin Street walked over to Hillside Avenue. I forgot to get a transfer from my driver on the MCM 10 bus.
If you need any help with NJ Bus Routes,,,let me know what ???
Steve
About 15 years ago a friend of mine who lived in Staten Island got a job driving for the TA. He worked out of the Coliseum Garage in the Bronx. As a sabbath observant orthodox Jew, he had a very hard time getting off Friday night & Saturday because of the seniority system. Management was willing to accommodate him but it was his own union that really busted his chops. For many years he did all the night runs in the dangerous high crime areas that the other drivers were afraid to do until he built up seniority. I understand that the situation has gotten a lot easier now and that there are more sabbath observers now driving for the TA.
I saw more breakdowns today at LI Bus. I saw 156 (Orion CNG) broke down heading toward Mineola on Old Country road, with no supervisor on scene. Also saw Gillig #533 broke down at Roosevelt Field. And it wasn't towed until hours later!
Then at night I saw Orion diesel 623 broke down on Old Northern Blvd in Roslyn. I did not see any supervisor on scene with that one either.
The tow trucks and supervisors must have been busy today, with all the breakdowns going on lately it probably takes drivers an hour or two just to get assistance.
This is just the first heatwave. How are they going to make it through the summer?
Monday afternoon, 5/8, about 4pm, I saw a LI bus broken down on Merrick blvd and 107th ave right by Jamaica depot. The bus operator was sitting in it on the radio. Finally, about 9pm, the tow truck arrived to take it away. No big deal. Just thought I would let you know about that also. BIG AL
Was this an Orion CNG, diesel Orion, or Gillig? Probably on the N4, which operates out of RVC depot during the week.
Usually there's a mix of CNG and diesel Orions on the N4.
Wow, it took 5 hours to be towed. Proof that those tow trucks were
very busy.
I feel bad for the operator, sitting in a broken down bus in this heat for hours. Hopefully he or she did not have to wait too long for a "rescue" from the downed bus.
This was a diesel Orion. He already had the "not in service" sign up when I saw him but it was probably the N4. I was suprised too when I saw how long he was sitting out there. By the time the tow truck came, the batteries were pretty much dead from the 4-way flashers going. Like you said, the tow truck must have been very busy the last few days. BIG AL
Just to add to your list, I saw LI Bus #710 (one of the JFK Flyer buses) about to be towed on Peninsula Blvd. (northbound) in Hempstead last night.
Busy times indeed for the LI Bus tow truck.
Chuck
(I preface this message with the definition of RTX=Rapid
Transit eXperimental vs RTS=Rapid Trasit Series)
A truly historic find was made by me today at a south
central LA junk vendor. Near LACMTA Division 5.
So here I am riding down the line when I see this RTS like
model for sale at a local shop. I jam out to check it out
and immediatley purchase it.
Made of solid wood it measures about a foot and a half
long and is deffinitivley an RTX not an RTS although
similar.
RTX's had round headlights as ths model depicts.
Painted in GM demo colors blue and white the model is
stamped on the bottom "RTX GMC R&D PONTIAC MICH"
Anyone have info or photos on the RTX?
NOT the RTX-Transbus which I do have a brochure for.
The nearly forgotten RTX was the prelude to the RTS as we
know it. The initial RTX prototypes were in exsistance at
least in mock-up form as early as 1968. One of the various
early configurations were a tri-axle 40' Suburban version.
Plans for the RTX program to replace the "New look"
included such mutations as RTX "Buffalo" and "Senicrusier"
fantases.
Although GMC gave up redesigning the product line after
the governments involvement in trying to redesign "The bus
of the future"
The RTS as we know it was considered a temporary model
when prodction began in LATE 1976. And here we are 23
years and two manufacturers later with the RTS bieng the most
reliant type in production at the present.
Truly amazing how now the ideals of the Transbus program
have mutated into the Low Floors as we know it.
Also those who remember compare the AMGeneral to the New
Flyer "Invetro" nearly identical designs.
M1 (The M1 and only)
I had a newspaper clipping of this bus in NYC. It too had the round headlights. It's a 2 axles bus. I would call it a pre-RTS vs the RTX as it was the GM version based on the DOT White Paper.
Round headlights means its an RTX.
M (The M1 and only)
I think your wrong on that. Round headlights were on the GM Transbus. The RTX had more rectangular lights as shown in the picture below. The info from GM on the RTX states quartz headlights also and it looks as though it had 6 total. Also the RTX didn't appear to have a destination sign from all the pictures I've seen of it. Just a black panel where the sign should be.
RDChilds
The GM RTX
The GM Transbus
I forget where, and if I find it again I will advise -- but I have seen a picutre of a "RTX" bus that had round headlights. As I recall, the picture was taken on the streets of NYC.
If I find it I will pass it along....
If you find it I would indeed be interested in seeing it. I've seen many pictures of the RTX over the years and it was always the same bus they showed in the pictures so I concluded there was only one RTX unit built.
In addition a 1973 report from the GM Technical Center in Warren Michigan on the progress in areas of public concern worded the section on transit touting the GM's development of the RTX as a major contributer to the Transbus program. It was worded in such a way that it indicated that there was only ever one RTX built and again showed a picture of the same RTX coach I pictured in an earlier post with the 6 square quartz headlights.
This is a wild thought but could the round headlight bus in question be a *post* Transbus prototype of the RTS II? GM really didn't want to pursue the Transbus at the time and favored the Advanced Design Bus concept during the mid 70's as Transbus used unproven technology.
RDChilds
From what I heard there were many varios RTX designs that never left the Pontiac plants "Area 51" including various headlight types, slope back, square back, and unknown hidden technical modifications.
As soo as I photograph it I will post the model for all to drool at.
Remember the "First" RTS-01 was serial #006 sowhat were # 1-5?
M1 (The M1 and only)
Serial numbers were as follows:
TH8601-001 Demonstrator for GM Coach Sales built 05/77. Sold to Detroit Diesel Allison Division (Indianapolis IN) on 07/81
TH8601-002 Demonstrator for GM Coach Sales built 05/77. Sold to Detroit Diesel Allison Division (Indianapolis IN) on 08/81
TH8601-003 GM Engineering delivered on 08/77
TH8601-004 GM Engineering delivered on 06/77
TH8601-005 Demonstrator for GM Coach Sales built 07/77. Sold to Detroit Diesel Allison Division (Indianapolis IN) on 08/81
Serials 001, 002, 005 definately were identical in appearance to serial 006-020 that went to Long Beach Public Transportation Company on 09-10/77. These were demos GM had plastered in ads in 1977 and sent to many properties to introduce the model.
RDChilds
Are you sure abot the production dates?
I have a AC Transit house rag from 1975 that shows one of the pre-producion demos.
Any info?
M1 (The M1 and only)
Dates should be delivered on date, not built date (my error on that). The 5 I listed in the earlier post were the true production models which you had asked about in an earlier post.
I have some trade mags from late 75 - early 76 that show one of the RTS coaches.
Still digging for info on the RTS, I found info that serial 001 or 002 was in Pittsburgh in January of 1976 as part of a public relations tour for GM. The attached articles to the PAT presentation to the public (taken from Mass Transit and Metropolitan magazines and attached to the PAT handout) state the development of the RTS in it's present form started in 1974 with the redesign of the Transbus plans and the first RTS coach was produced in 1975.
The first sales of the coach however didn't occur until 1977 when Long Beach placed the first order which was delivered 09-10/1977.
So, from the records I can find so far, 001 & 002, at least, were built around mid to late 75 but transferred to GM Coach Sales in 1977. Serials 003 & 004 were built and delivered to GM Engineering in 1977 and serial 005 was built and delivered to GM Coach Sales in 1977 as a demonstrator.
Interesting to note that the next order of 35 & 40 foot coaches PATransit purchased after the RTS II demo was in town were 1978 AM Generals which outlasted the 1980 RTS coaches.
RDChilds
Good stuff!
Thanks for the updates.
The RTS has come along way and I must agreee that for the GM models the 04 is by far the most superior.
The TMC 06 with redesigned supension was a far reaching improvement.
Although I doubt the LACMTA TMC's will see the lifespan that the 04's have seen here in LA going into thier 19th year of continious service. As the 04 was "Supposed" to have been phased out by the end of 1996 and here we are with a handful still running out more and more "Happy Miles" Thanks to various factors mainly alternate fuel disasters such as MEthanol and CNG the RTS have lasted thus far.
M1 (The M1 and only)
M1 (The M1 and only)
Interesting pictures.
I seem to think this mutation of the RTX and Transbus were the same or similar demos.
Jeez I wonder where they are now? Alledgedly one f the GM's exists in Arizona.
The builders plates would be worth a fortune! As the had the RTX logo on it.
BTW the "Headsign" on the GMC Transbus was a series of flippers like on a clock radio with pre printed readigs such as "GMC Truck & Coach" and "GMC Transbus"
M1 (The M1 and only)
...my website, that is. The new URL is http://nav.to/rmmarrero. Nothing is there yet, but soon, I'll have everything that was at http://forbin.qc.edu/wcb/students/rmarrero/files/ in here. I'll tell you when to update your links. Until then, continue to visit my current home here.
Transit Pictures 5 and Transit Pictures 6 have successfully been uploaded.
Transit Pictures 1 through 4 will be uploaded as soon as I make some file modifications, mostly reducing the file sizes and editing the HTML a little bit. Transit Pictures 1 will have a new version along with the old version. The new version will be called Transit Pictures 1a.
Subway Sounds, TransferPoint, and everything else will be uploaded next week.
See my site as it is now Go!
I will see to it that you are adjusted at The TransiTALK Links Page!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
The floodgates have been opened all the way. My site has been moved to the new server. You may now update your links. The URL is:
http://nav.to/rmmarrero.
See you there!!
Effective 5/15/00, service changes on SI x-bus routes will include:
x1-Last outbound trip 0120
x17-Earlier outbound trip, and last outbound trip 2020
x31-Earlier outbound trip
Several other changes, but I can't remember them all...
-Hank
Hank,,any routing changes???
Nothing more than the x12 detour in Arlington due to the South Ave bridge work.
-Hank
Do you have any details of the routings
Steve
Are ya sure it's not on the 21st?
It's either the 15th or the 22nd, since x-bus changes are effective Monday (there's no weekend service on any of the lines affected except the x1 and x17; and the changes only affect weekday service)
-Hank
I'd assume it's the 22nd, because here in Manhattan the pick starts on the 21st. And the X10 also runs on weekends.
But the x10 is unaffected byt the service changes.
I saw the notices again this morning, the new pick on SI is effective 5/21, with x-bus changes effective 5/22.
Other increases include 2 additional x17J trips, one earlier in the morning, one later. (First and last bus inbound via NJ are now earlier and later)
-Hank
"But the x10 is unaffected byt the service changes."
But you said The X1 and X17 are the only ones that run on the weekend.
It's either the 15th or the 22nd, since x-bus changes are effective Monday (there's no weekend service on any of the lines affected except the x1 and x17; and the changes only affect weekday service)
-Hank
That's EXACTLY what I said.
-Hank
Sorry, my mistake.
Dont the x10 run on weekends too????
x17#1877Mike
I believe that it does.
X10#2000Gary
Yes, it does. But the changes posted don't affect it. the x10 runs hourly on Sundays.
-Hank
Why are there more seats on private line buses than those run by the MTA? I've noticed that the Green Line and other private operators have four seats across.
I can understand the MTA wants fewer seats (and more room for standees) in some parts of the city. But even on Staten Island and other suburban parts of the city, MTA buses still only have three seats across.
Craig
~
Am I the only one who thinks RTS buses are the best buses there are? I live in Houston and as of now we have a dwindling supply of 81-83 GMC RTS buses. 190 or less as of now. Some look as young as 2 and some look there respective ages. But they ae reliable and durable and very mechanically sound. If you have any info on RTS buses are Houston's especially post it.
"Am I the only one who thinks RTS buses are the best buses there are?"
Probably. Recently there was a discussion pretty mch bashing out the RTS's.
"Am I the only one who thinks RTS buses are the best buses there are?"
Probably. We recently had a discussion that pretty much bashed the RTS buses.
The RTS was my favorite bus as a operator but I of course never operated anything else is passenger service. My favorite RTS's were the 4100's and 8600's when I was at Amsterdam. They were great buses and most of the 4100's were fast!
I have operated Orions 100's and 6000's and I dont like them at all. I dont feel comfortable with them. I also trained on the Hybrid Orions at Manhattanville and I really didn't like these buses. The Orions have to much overhang and are complicated to operate.
When I worked at the Port Authority I operated the New Flyers and I really liked these buses as well. Very fast and easy to learn to operate.
We have new flyers down here too. In fact, that will soon be the only bus we have. Back about 12 years ago there were about 20 different models of buses here in Houstn. What a time to be alive.
RTS are probably my fav bus in production right now as they have been the longest running line still in production today.
Here in Los Angeles the GMC RTS 04's are now the rare birds and thier days are numbered.
We have quite a few diffrent 06 models runnng around but will probably never see a new purchase for RTS at LACMTA.
Read my RTX model located info NEEDED posting for more of my RTX and RTS history.
M1 (The M1 and only)
I was surprised to see the RTS's in Houston as I thought they were all gone. The Houston METRO RTS's are very nice looking for their ages. I like the RTS also, she is very sturdy and they last forever! I am impressed with the Midwest Bus Remanufactured RTS's we have here in NYC those to me are my favorites by far. Hopefully if Houston sees this an option, they should have their RTS's remanufactured. That would be nice. I was in Houston this past November and I must say you guys have a great transit system and I hope they keep up the good work! Those HOV lanes and Transit Centers are excellent!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Here in Houston, people are blown away by the thought of something "state of the art." Metro has gone on and on about the Flyers and Neoplans they're bringing in, technology this, state-of-the-art that. But it's kind of sad when an 18 year old bus can take off faster than a 1 year old bus. I like the Flyers though, they're pretty fast.
But here's what's against the RTS:
A 500 order of D40LF's.
They're age (The youngest RTS, 2186, will be 17 in the summer)
No wheelchair lifts (They are now limited to only so many routes)
150 Flyers due in June
Maintenance is purposely neglecting RTS buses so the drivers won't like them as much
They'll be all gone by next fall. But then they were supposed to be gone in 1995 too.
Sounds just like here in LA from what you were saying.
Of the original 940 bus order of GMC RTS 04's (All w/c equipped) less than 50 remain active and around 75 are operated for LACMTA by Laidlaw and that contract is soon to end.
We also have 35 1982 GMC 35' 04's split between MTA and two contract operators.
And a handful of 40 foot narrow 04's used but are all operatd by ATE under contract.
The balance are rougly 700 TMC 06's built between 1988-92 and depending on division some are cream puffs and some real dogs.
We also had 13 used RTS 03's from Orange County that lasted less than a year thanks to bieng sent to the worst division.
The days of the LACMTA GMC RTS 04's are predicted to run not much longer than 2 months or less.
So all the LA fans are now trying to ride the last GMC's alog with the first of thier replacements that are a landslide of New Flyer C40 and NABI LF40C's.
Any more info needed?
M1 (The M1 and only)
My favorite bus (to drive) is the Novabus LFS. Unfortunately, it was roadcalled quite frequently for one reason or another. Since it was a "test bus," MTA mechanics performed little or no work on it, so it can't truly be compared to the rolling stock.
Considering that the basic design of the bus has been around for over twenty years, the RTS is probably a continent-wide transit authority favorite. The GM "New Look" buses, also in service for many years, which were removed from service because of a lack of wheelchair lifts, were probably the all around favorite of authorities, drivers and mechanics.
Took M101 to 46th Street yesterday and back from 51st Street about 2 hours later where the farebox deducted a xfer. Looks like you can xfer from anything to anything or was that a mistake?
Arti
Are you sure coming back you did not get on a M102 or an M103?
You can not transfer from the M101 to the M102 or M103. He could have gotten on an M98. For some reason, you are allowed to transfer between the M101/102/103 and M98.
I don't know what you mean. First you say you can not transfer between the M101 to the M102 or 103, then you say you can. As far as I know a transfer will work on any bus line in the entire NYCT system except for the same line it was issued on, as long as it is within 2 hours, and a few minutes given for the last minute stragler. BIG AL
For more clarification, please read the booklet on Metrocards, Dealing with transfer restrictions.
You can transfer between these busses in the same direction, but not in the opposite.
IE, transfer from the M101 uptown to the M103 uptown: LEGAL
transfer from the M101 uptown to the M103 downtown: ILLEGAL
[IE, transfer from the M101 uptown to the M103 uptown: LEGAL
transfer from the M101 uptown to the M103 downtown: ILLEGAL ]
I wouldn't call it illegal as I have no control over what the farebox does.
Arti
"Invalid" might be a better word.
Mr t__:^)
I still don't get it. Or maybe it's different in Mabstoa. In Queens, the transfer will always work no matter what direction they are going. As long as the line is different. People regularly get on the bus along Merrick blvd to go to Jamaica and ask for a trasfer. Then use the same transfer to ride a different line back along Merrick blvd in the opposite direction to go home. And as long as the farebox accepts it, I have no say in the matter. BIG AL
[In Queens, the transfer will always work no matter what direction they are going. As long as the line is different.]
There are a few odd ball rules in Queens too, e.g. try to transfer from Queens Surface (Q25/Q65) to Jamaica Bus at Archer Ave.
Mr t__:^)
You can change direction when moving between busses EXCEPT with the busses on Lexington/3, Madison/5 and the Grand Concourse
[He could have gotten on an M98]
Definitely not M98. I needed to go to 25th Street.
Arti
Did you get on one going uptown?
Nope, started from 26th street.
Arti
Hello, there. Perhaps the transfer was made from a local to a limited M-101, or visa versa. Also, there is a hidden restriction regarding the B-39 transfer: since this bus is (usually) the middle of a 3-leg, the B-39 transsfer will be accepted ONLY on intersecting routes.
The farebox's Transfer Acceptance Table allows for transfers among the M101/M102/M103 in the SAME direction, but not in OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS. Apparently, one of your buses was mis-signed.
BTW, some drivers are fond of treating the destination sign as an origin sign (e.g. using the southbound reading on a northbound trip). Unfortunately, that messes up the transfers because the signs are linked to the fareboxes. For example, a southbound M101 or M102 will allow transfer to a southbound M103 to continue past 6th Street. HOWEVER, if either southbound bus has the NORTHBOUND sign, the transfer will not be accepted.
In other words, the farebox has no sense of direction. It knows only what the driver tells it.
Is anyone aware of the B-39 transfer restriction, in that one may not use the mag. tranfer on any other routes than those specified. In other words, any non-intersectiong route., even within the 2 hour plus limit. I am told that since this tranfer is issued as the middle leg of a 3- leg, the TA is within its rights here. But, what about those who pay fare on the B-39? They are denied this transfer use, not to mention the third transfer benefit. I also believe that the Metrocard priviliges are similar for this route.
That could have been it. As I do this quite often I'll pay more attention next time.
Arti
Not 100%
Arti
You also may have used a 101 local in one direction, vs. a limited in the opposite direction. I believe that this is permissable. Check it out, please, all mavens.
[You also may have used a 101 local in one direction, vs. a limited ]
Local both ways.
Arti
You also may have used a 101 local in one direction, vs. a 101 limited in the opposite direction. I believe that this is permissable. Check it out, please, all mavens.
You also may have used a 101 local in one direction, vs. a 101 limited in the opposite direction. I believe that this is permitted. Check it out, please, all mavens.
This past weekend my girlfriend and I were downtown around abington sq. We wanted to ride the M11 uptown to get home. I know that the M11 ends it's downtown run at abington sq. We could not find where it starts it's uptown run. We asked a driver at the last stop, where the first stop was. He said he'd drive us there even though he was going off duty and back the the depot. FYI: The bus begins it's run at 14th & 10th. Not exactly in the same place where it ends.
Anyway, it was nice of him to drive us there even though he could have just told us where to go.
If you see this bus operator again, get his badge, run and route number and call the transit customer service hotline to give a compliment about him. He will get a red apple award. Sounds like he really made your day. Now you can make his. BIG AL
I suggest that he NOT do this.
This driver probably violated the rules; while he did so as a convenience and should be rewarded, the TA will not do this. If you "report" him, these acts of kindness will stop.
I had the same thought. We expressed our thanks directly to him.
The driver did violate the rules. Had he/she gotten into an accident carrying passengers while not in service he/she would have been in serious trouble. Unfortunately the TA does not look kindly upon acts of kindness.
You guys are right. I somehow overlooked the line about the operator being off duty and going back to the depot. I thought he was still on duty and going back to the first stop. A good thank-you and have a safe day would have been best. BIG AL
Why not just call up the MTA and say "oh he's a good driver he's nice and sweet" and nominate him/her for an award?
Although the driver "broke the rules," this incident would probably looked upon favorably by the MTA. I suggest you send a postcard describing it as you have here. The driver will be rewarded for "above and beyond" service. (On the M11, this happens fairly often, due to the unusual first stop stand practice.)
How come the first stop is a distance from the last stop??? (I hope I made sense here)
B46M Limited
saw on the news at 4 o'clock a Command CNG RTS went under an overpass at Belmont park. The CNG tanks made with the overpass (Hempstead Tpke) and exploded instantly according to witnesses. A shot from the news chopper showed the bus was sticking halfway out, top half completely destroyed by fire. Reports of 3 injuries.
And no, before anybody asks, the bus number was not visible. i'm sure somebody will get to that eventually.
Bus # was 4918. This bus is completely burned up. They parked the bus in the Command Storage lot right next to MCI 431 and the other TMC that caught on fire 4927. The bus is covered so i will have to wait for a windy day (when the cover blows off) to get some good photos.
Kevin
Will the driver be punished? I assume this was on the Cross Island Parkway. Buses are not allowed on parkways due to clearance problems.
But this does bring up that a strong impact on a CNG bus may have quite a serious risk, such as an explosion.
Too bad they put the tanks on the roof instead of under the floor where they belong.
Orion could not put the tanks under the floor because there is no room and they talked NY state into mandating unsafe roof mounted tanks.
The RTS system with the under floor tanks is a much better product.
Two points:
- 1st, the accident happend as the bus tryed to use the underpass between the South parking lot & Belmont, i.e. it's NOT a state/county road so the underpass height isn't standard.
- 2nd, "The RTS system with the under floor tanks is a much better product." The CNG RTS coaches that I've seen locally have roof tanks!
Question: why was the bus trying to make that move ? Was there a height sign near the underpass to warn the driver ?
Mr t__:^)
There was a height sign right on the overpass that the bus hit. I don't know how the operator could have missed that. Maybe he is new which might explain why he got lost. I hope it's not the end of his job, but he does have alot of explaining to do. BIG AL
Thank God that he and the others survived to do the explaining.
A guy that worked with a friend of mine was picking up a college sports team one night at the airport and drove straight into a wingtip of an MD-80. Almost killed the driver but totaled the bus. Why wasn't the driver paying attention and where were the airport people.
Sometimes people don't pay attention. We have a commuter rail viaduct here that is posted 12'8" and we find a Semi about once a week stuck under the bridge.
Why? seems to be a big question.
Question about the cng incident, Was there a fire or just a gas release? A gas venting gives a large white cloud of gas escaping and makes a lot of noise. If there is a fire it is usually a quick poof then more like a torche burning at the point of the leak.
Isn't an MD-80 a plane?
Of course that wasn't what he was talking about. Since when do planes have wings?
Thank you, that's EXACTLY what I was thinking. He certainly didn't drive into a SHOE an destroy a bus.
-Hank
These are divison I college teams. You can't expect them to go out the gate like real people. They brought the bus out onto the air field so the poor kids would not have to walk too far after the big game.
That's very interesting because most airports have rules that restrict veichles on ramps & runways to only certain airport EMPLOYEES. I worked at one company for 15 years, but was never authorized to drive on any ramp ... why because I might think I can get under the 747 or the wing is high enough for me to cut under it to get from point A to B, etc. Also if you aren't aware of traffic patterens you could be driving accross a taxiway and not see the plane comming ... opps.
Airport usually have guarded gates at EVERY entrance point to prevent unauthorized vehicles from getting in ... you could make a wrong turn and not know you're entering a ramp/runway/etc.
Mr t__:^)
All news reports said a fire...Based on the pictures shown on TV it was a fire since the upper half of the bus was definitely scorched and blackened along the entire roof.
Thanks
The Belmont Park expresses use Conduit Avenue, Springfield Blvd and Hempstead Avenue--at least they're supposed to. I'm not sure if they use the same turnaround as the Q2 and Q110 which would take them onto the CIP entrance/exit ramps where they do have to go beneath an overpass.
I've seen many CNG RTS's along Springfield Blvd, why did this one hit the overpass?
According to today's Newsday (Suffolk Edition) the driver had gone in wrong gate and ended up in a parking field south of Hempstead Turnpike and was attempting to get back to the grandstand. The impression from the article is that the underpass is a road completely within the Racetrack Grounds. I've never been to Belmont, only past it. Is the article correct regarding the roadways on the grounds???
"According to today's Newsday (Suffolk Edition) the driver had gone in wrong gate and ended up in a parking field south of Hempstead Turnpike and was attempting to get back to the grandstand. The impression from the article is that the underpass is a road completely within the Racetrack Grounds.
I've never been to Belmont, only past it. Is the article correct regarding the roadways on the grounds???"
The article is completely correct. I passed by last night ... from the Cross Island Parkway I could still see the Emerg. trucks at the Hempstead Turnpike end of the South parking lot. I also saw a very clear photo of the tail end of the bus hagging out in the paper.
BTW, frequently I've seen the buses hanging out on the north side of Hempstead Turnpike, on the West side near the LIRR yard. IMHO the driver should have gone back out of the lot onto the Parkway then taken the next exit which would have put him right in front of Belmount Park.
Mr t__:^)
Are the TA 45 Ft. MCI Express coaches that are used in Staten Island service equipped with baggage underloaders or overhead parcel racks like the long distance coaches ?
Yes, all of the TA's 280 MCI 102-DL3SS Cruisers have underfloor Luggage Bays and Overhead Airline-Style (as MCI calls it) Parcel Racks. Fully Euipped with Personal Reading lights and individual Air Vents.
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
The luggage bays are not used -- sealed, if memory serves.
David
To me it just makes too much sense that they should've kept them unsealed and put emergency supplies or flat-tire-fixing-stuff in them.
The "flat tire fixing stuff" on an MCI bus is, believe it or not, stored behind the front bumper under the floor.
On the older MC-types, the bumper is secured by a couple elastic straps and folds up if access to the spare tire behind it is needed. Believe me, it is NO fun to have to try and get the tire out.
And heck if I know how to get the bumper up on the newer MCI types, but the spare tire is still in there.
The jack and lug wrench are usually stored in the battery compartment. All I can say is "Lotsa Luck" trying to bust the lug nuts loose. Of course, you'd only have to change a tire if a front one went flat. If one of the duals went flat, you drive slowly to a repair shop. If the tag axle goes flat, you "chain it up" and drive to a repair shop.
In the TA's case, you pull the bus over, and make a road call. I've never seen a TA bus with a flat. Bus Drivers do not perform mechanical work, period. Union rules.
-Hank
Wow. Now that's pretty interesting.
The union would not let the driver change the tire himself. That would be taking work away from the mechanics. Also, unlike a charter operator, TA buses are never far from home base so it makes more sense to wait for a repair truck which carries all the necessary tire changing supplies anyway.
I heard a while back that the TA was planning on making a route from SI to Newark Airport. Obviously it never happened.
Kevin
One of them holds the wheelchair lift.
Those luggage bays are not sealed on all of them, the was a incident when I caught a operator opening one to let a passenger put a numerous amount of lugguage under the bus, my guess is that the person just came off of a trip and required the MTA's services to SI.
If they are sealed it's not on all MCI coaches!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Could it be that the "sealed luggage bays" were actually referring to the air locks that lock the luggage bay doors whenever the parking brake is not on?
Most, if not all, newer MCI's have had this feature. The luggage bay locks would automatically engage when the parking brake was released. To unlock them, the parking brake had to be applied, AND a very similar-looking button on the dash near the accelerator pedal had to be pushed in too.
Yes this has been the feature on the "D" series MCI coaches since the D series debut!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
The feature actually made its debut back in 1981 or 1982. The company I worked for at the time had some brand-new 1982 MC-9's and they had the baggage bay air lock system. Greyhound had it on all their new stuff at the time too.
Locked by key, not sealed. The bus has 4 luggage bays, and the same key opens them all. The first bay has the wheelchair lift, and is useless for storage. Second has the A/C equipment, third and fourth are available.
-Hank
Thanks for the information. When the first batch was ordered, I asked about the luggage bays and was told they'd be "sealed." Nobody told me what constituted being "sealed."
David
I keep seeing a yellow slope back RTS about 7:30pm driving down Springfield blvd. near Linden blvd in Queens during the week when I am on the Q4. I beleive the bus number is 5200 but I can never catch the name on the side. This is the only slope back I ever see in existance anymore. And this baby is in beautiful condition too. Anybody know anything about this? I will carry a small camera with me and try to photograph it and post for everyone to see. From previous posts, I think some of you would like to view her as well. BIG AL
I was going to get the N22 to the F train from the N21. I was on the N21, we got to Roslyn and the N23 was waiting across the street.
Proceeded to cross the street to get the N23, which was to get me to the N22. But get this, the N23 pulled away! I waved and screamed but it left. Buses are supposed to wait at Roslyn for their transfers, but I guess this bus driver just did not care. I missed it by a matter of seconds, and BTW it left Roslyn early at 12:48pm, instead of 12:50pm.
The next N23 bus wasn't for another hour, and I was quite pissed off.
The N23 bus was bus #212.
Also the Orion I had on the N21 was 611, and it had a water leak from the roof affecting a few seats in the back. Magic marker all over back of bus too. Just another day on MTA Long Island Bus!
Here in Houston, some of our RTS buses make this loud groaning sound when going fast. Sometimes it's so loud the windows and seats vibrate. The loudest buses are 2070, 2148, and 2151. But about 60% of the others make a quieter but noticeable sound like that. Do buses in New York do that and if they do what is the cause?
Very hard to answer your question. You did not tell us which type of RTS you have that's making that sound. Is it RTS-02,03,06? Is it a Nova, TMC or GMC? Here in NY we have all different types of RTS's which make different types of sounds so I would not know which bus to compare it to. I suspect your talking about a newer one as our Novas make a kind of low pitch groan when they are moving fast. Post back which type of RTS your referring and if you can record it and post, that would be better. Without a recording I can't see how anyone can possibly tell if ours sound just like yours. BIG AL
I was talking about the GMC RTS-04's. Especially the 1983 model.
Sorry 2150, But I can't help you. All of Jamaica's 1983 RTS-04's are now in the junk yard. We have 5 1982 coaches but I never drive them. I think Q.V. depot still has 2 1983's and E.N.Y. depot still has a few but most of the '83's in the whole city are pretty much gone, along with all the 81's, most '82's and '84's. BIG AL
I thought Houston was in bad shape. But we usually keep buses long past their prime.
GM 5300 Series (New Looks) 1961-1991
Grumman-Flxible 870s 1979-1997
RTS-02 1977-1992-93 (They were pretty lucky to go on that long)
RTS-04's 1981-??? We still have 190. I read that DeLibero (our CEO here) said that after the arrival of 150 buses in June that the fleet would be 90% accessible (RTS buses are the last with no lifts). The fleet consists of 1400 buses, so I assume there will be 140 RTS buses lft by this fall.
Green Bus Lines has some 1979 RTS buses that still work.
From what I know, buses 1001, 1003-1006, 1008, 1010-1015 are still running out of GBL. These are the 1979 buses. 1009 was recently sent to Command Storage- probably for scrap though cause she was in poor condition exterior-wise.
Q60#1148Gary
1005 and 1015 are now in Command Storage.
Shirley DeLibero? How is she doing these days?
She used to be NJ Transit's chair[wo]man.
She's doing fine I guess. Tom Delay has all but killed the rail plan she guranteed for us. Oh well. I had high hopes when she came. I thought she'd spare the RTS or at least buy some more. Oh well.
I think I know the groaning sound you're speaking of. I've noticed it on many NYCTA RTS at speed also. I seems to come in when the bus is about to shift into 3rd gear and it stops then the bus stops accelerating.
Wayne
Yeah, usually that's what happens here. Though some buses don't have it at all, bus 2070 starts off in 1st gear. We have one bus, 2180, that made this buzzsaw type of sound while deaccelerating. They fixed 3 others that did that (1986, 2098, and 2128) and some buses have a hard time getting out of first gear (1922, 2153, 2158)
At one point when I was a teenager riding NYCTA's early RTS I thought the groaning sound might have been the engine governor kicking in, but as we know - not all RTS made this sound. Hopefully another BusTalker know what this sound is.
Wayne
Worn Differentials will howl when under power and ae quiet when coasting.
Worn Universal joints are quiet under power but clatter when coasting.
Normal gear noise in the differntial and angle drive are there but not too annoying. More noticable on an angle drive than on a T-drive.
Give us some more hints at the sound please.
Heres what happens on a typical groaning RTS
1. Bus starts off normally
2. Around second gear the noise begins to come in gradually
3. in 3rd Gear the noise peaks (it usually sounds like a racecar mixed with bass, it's the best way I can describe it)
4. Bus changes shift to 4th, the groaning is usually all that is heard.
5. During de-acceleration the noise is not present and replaced by the typical RTS wail.
Soundsdefinitely like a worn rear end. I've driven many RTS's that do this.
I saw Orion Bus #317, a CNG bus out of Gleason Depot, on Route 17 in Northern NJ, headed south just below the intersection with Route I-287 and the New York Thruway about 8:00 a.m. this morning. Could it have been coming all the way from Orion in Oriskany?
at about 530 pm i sae a nyct cng orion heading north on route 17 in the catskills region yesterday. these buses are coming and going to oriskany for warranty repairs. they use 17 due to its lack of tolls.
Saw NYCT New Flyer Low Floor CNG # 857 arriving at Atlantic Diesel in Bohemia this morning. Also RTS 7529 is there also. BTW, how long has Atlantic Diesel been in operation and how long have they been servicing MTA/DOT buses?
Here at LI Bus, I notice older drivers and ones with seniority seem to get the diesel Orions. What is the reason for this? Or could it be
since diesels are used mostly in rush hours, senior drivers get them because they are prefferred in AM and PM rushes.
I am installing the "express lights" or "hoodlum lights" on NYCTA # 5285. The bus was originally # 20 for the PA and has 2 pedals on the floor to the left of the driver. Can someone who REALLY knows, tell me what these 2 pedals were for and where the switch is located to make this bus standard to the other NYCTA fishbowls. The switches that are on the floor now do absolutlely nothing. Also, I am looking for any pics of Port Authority of NY & NJ # 20. (T6H 5307A serial#127) either in service at the PA or when they went to Los Angeles Airport
It's been awhile since Idrove one but I think you are talking about are the turn signals. They were mounted on a rectangular metal plate at about a 40degree angle.There was one button for the highbeams if i remember correctly it was left of the steering column and a few inchws back. There was also a switch almost under the drivers seat it was an emergency switch that made the running lights flash. This is to the best of my recollection.BTW I drive at Ulmer Park. Started in 4/88 Drove the fishbowls,flexibles,blitz and still driving the RTS
This particular bus T6H 5307A #127 came with directions on the steering post. The two switches have nothing to do with the directionals, but seems one may be for the PA and the other for a emergency warning system. I was just curious before I hook it all back up again
Is one of them more of a pedal? If so, I think that that might have been for the old "floor mic". Remember, THIS IS NOT FULLY CORRECT INFO, JUST A SLIGHTLY EDUCATED GUESS.
Tevi,
M9, 5194
yes, these are pedals. I guess I could have been more informative.
I'm guessing you're restoring this bus to appear as the Blitz rebuild 5285. I'm curious about this because NYCTA (Blitz) was a T6H-5305A. I'm thinking that if your bus is a T6H-5307A then 5385 (also Blitz rebuild) would be a better number because this bus was a T6H-5309A. As you may know NYCTA never received any buses with the T6H-5307A designation. However, they did have the T6H-5309A/10A which are identical to the T6H-5307A.
Just a thought. Good luck with your restoration.
Wayne
This was originally Port Authority of NY and NJ bus #20. I went with 5285 because I was told the last Blitz was #5284. I didnt like some of the other numbers people came up with so that is what I chose. I also have bus 6149. Its an authentic NYCTA T6H 5309A.
OK - I think 5284 was the last Blitz T6H-5305A, but you may know that the Blitz T6H-5309A/10A ranged from 5300 to the high 5500 series. Have you or are you planning to restore 6149 to it's original two-tone blue paint scheme with the big radio blister?
Wayne
I have no intention of doing anything with 6149. Out of all the buses I have owned, nearly 100...... this 6149 is by far THE WORST bus I have ever seen. There is not one straight panel on the exterior, the interior has so much rolled on paint that some of the windows dont even open and the bulkhead problems in the rear are so bad that you have to put on hiking boots and get a permit from the ranger just to try and reach the upper level in the back. Its so bad its like a low floor model! I desperately want one of the "radio blisters" for 5285 so if anyone can lead me in the right direction. I will look for some pics of 6149. The bus was used last for Beautician and the Beast and hasnt been on the road since. Its really bad, thanks NYCTA
I am currently in the planning stages to repaint a fishbowl (TDH 4517 serial#1523) for a movie and it has to be repainted as a police bus. I am taking any suggestions and would love to see some pictures of other buses that have been repainted as such. I dont plan on any major body modifications, but want something that is totally the bomb! The bus will be donated to the Riverside Police Department (CA) when the movie is done, so I need something practical. The bus in question can be seen on my website at http://www.geocities.com/regtransit/ and is # 364
Orion VI Hybrid Eletric bus #6357, spotted crossing the GW Bridge yesterday towards Lodi to Atlantic Detroit Diesel. And fellow BusTalker, Clayton Parker (Mista M86) rode #6358 on the M103 also.
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Yep, that's me! It was really cool and stuff, cept Orion has gotta work on makin the standing space wider, I was almost squished to death! EEEE -|-
I took the BX39 bus today towards Clason Point and had the opportunity to ride New Flyer Articulated #5366. It was brand new. So new in fact that the depot logos had'nt been put on yet. I rode up near the driver and noticed that the odometer only had 1,560 miles on it. It's possible that today was it's first day in passenger service.
This bus have drove 1,000 miles from Minnesota to NYC. Have you read the article from NY Post last months about how the New Flyer Aritcs deliever from Minnesota to NYC? The Highest is New Flyer #5368 i saw on Bx22 three days ago.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
I remember when the C40LF buses were new. The first one I was on was a B35 I took from East 18th Street to McDonald Avenue. It had that "new bus smell," similar to that "new car smell."
Why is it that the 17X goes thru N.J. only on the morning commute and not on the evening return home ? I am sure that commuters would like to get home equally as fast as they get to work in the AM.
I would imagine they want to get home faster.
Because it's actually SLOWER in reverse. Delays at the Lincoln Tunnel entrance can often be 40 minutes or more, while unless there's an accident, they generally don't have a problem going FDR-BBT-Gowanus-VZ.
-Hank
Can anyone tell me what bus runs along Hillside Ave?
Is their a line that runs from Mytrle Ave (near
Jahn's) all the way out to at least 220th St?
Q43 is best- closest stop is at Hillside Ave. and Sutphin Blvd. next to F train stairway. Q43 starts at LIRR Jamaica Station on Archer Ave. and Sutphin - so you could also take a Q56 or Q54 from Metropolitan and Jamaica Aves. to Sutphin and pick up Q43 there. It runs along Hillside from Sutphin all the way to the City Line.
The sign should look like this:
Please disreguard the Hillside Ave. question. I'm really seeking info on the Union Tpke. bus routes. Namely, does the Q46 line run out to 211th St and can someone transer to it from the Q11 at Woodhaven Blvd? If not, whats the easiest way to get the Q46 from the Q56, which runs along Jamaica Avenue ...
The Q46 runs from Queens Blvd to LIJ Hospital at 270 st and Union Tpke
On Queens Bld ,you can transfer to the Q60 ,,on Queens Blvd,,take it to Woodhaven Blvd
(77 av and Queens bl to 59 Av and Woodhaven )
You can take the Q11 on Woodhaven to Jamaica Av and Woodhaven (Q56)
Steve
I would recommend taking the Q-56 to Lefferts Blvd., transferring to the Q-10 (which runs often) to Kew Gardens, and transferring to the Q-46. Both branches of the Q-46 go to 211th Street, although you might not be able to take a limited there in the rush hours. Other routes that connect the Q-56 to the Q-46 other than the Q-10 include the Q-37, Q-60, Q-20/44, Q-25/34, Q-65, Q-30/31 and Q-17. But my opinion is that the Q-10 is the best connector.
Q10 is the most crowded connector. If I were you, from 211 St, take the Q46 to 164 St and Union Tpke. Take the Q65 to Jamaica and Parsons then pick up the Q56 at Archer and Parsons. The Q46 does NOT stop LIMITED at 211 St. Here's a list of limited stops on the Q46 from Queens Blvd:
1. Courthouse Union Tpke
2. Main St
3. Utopia Pkwy
4. 188 St
5. Springfield Blvd
After Springfield Blvd local stops are made.
LIMITED service runs towards Queens Blvd from 6-9am and from 5-8pm from Queens Blvd. I take the Q46 everyday to and from SJU. So I know this line backwards and forwards.
Q46#8357Gary
Better and faster: take J train to Sutphin Blvd., go to upper level and take E train 2 stops to Union Tpke, go to mezzanine, and follow signs to Q46 bus stop. You'll be at the first stop on the Q46, namely Queens Blvd. and Union Tpke.
Forgot you can take any bus but a Utopia Pkwy bus: LIJ, Glen Oaks or even Springfield Blvd to get to 211 St.
Q46#8357Gary
Yeah, that's the instructions my mother got, but I was hoping there was an even faster way.
Thanks to all who responded.
to Court Square:
bus loads on Queens Plaza South at Queens Plaza Station. Turns right unto Jackson. Right unto 43rd ave right unto 23rd street right again to 44 drive to Citibank (Court Square Station.)
To Queens Plaza- I noticed two different routes.
#1:loads at 44 drive at Court Square Station. Left on Crescent, right on Hunter to 28th street to Queens Plaza South (Queens Plaza Station.)
#2:loads at 44 drive. Right on jackson to 45th road to 23rd street to Queens Plaza South to station. This route goes under the #7 station at 45rd/Courthouse Square.
Overnight they use one bus on the route. at 630am they used two buses.
Which depot operates this route?
Sorry- I do not know! I work for Stations and had to use this route 3times Saturday and Sunday on my lunch relief. I dread Memorial Day Weekend when this will also be going on for the Holiday itself .(Yes- that means I will be there 3 days that week)
What about the upcoming 3 train GO between NL and Utica?? Around the Junius St Station where ends and then start up again by the L train station????????
B46M Limited
Where does the BMJ1 run and what does the J stand for?
I think that's some Brooklyn-Meadowlands service (Giants Stadium, Continental Airlines Arena, etc). The "J" stands for "Jersey" as in New Jersey
[The "J" stands for "Jersey" as in New Jersey]
Hell yeah, baby!!!
The BMJ1 is one of two Command bus routes from Brooklyn to Meadowlands Racetrack. I'm not sure which is which, but one goes to Sheepshead Bay and the other goes to (I think) Bay Ridge.
When the TA takes delivery of new buses such as the 45 foot MCI cruiser coaches, do they send TA drivers out to Pembina, ND to pick them up or does MCI have their own drivers drive them to New York ? The charter company that I work for recently flew 2 drivers out to North Dakota to bring in 2 new Renaissance coaches and most private charter companies do the same.
I don't know for sure, but I heard that TA drivers drove the 1999 Orion V from the upstate factory. In a older copy of Bus World magazine they have a bus shot of a new Nova RTS about to be unloaded from a truck at Ulmer Park depot.
Wayne
these buses are driven to atlantic diesel in the case of mci and new flyewr artics by transporters. these men have agents who get them jobs transporting vehicles. orion buses of 1999 vintage were driven straight to the depots by transporters. 1996 novas were brought in on flatbeds. the ta will send drivers to atlantic diesel to pick up buses.
Some bus manufactures (i.e. Orion, New Flyer) use contract bus drivers to drive the buses from the plant to the transit property or holding lot. The recently delivered NYCT Orion VI's were the only buses driven by Orion employees. The New Flyer's are usually sent to Atlantic Diesel prior to their delivery, from there a NYCT bus driver picks up the bus and drives it to its new depot home. All of this is part of the contract NYCT agrees on with the manufacturer.
I must comment on New Yorks excellent bus fleet. Any fleet with 3000 RTS buses is fine by me. Plus you keep some of your older buses in pretty god shape (on the outside anyway). So I must say you all have the best bus fleet I've seen. But I have one that would be alot better, alas, it will never happen though. Especially Houston. Here it is:
500-799 Nova RTS Suburban 1998-2000
800-1199 Grumman 870 1978-1979
1200-1254 Eagle 05 1979
1255-1354 Eagle 10 1984-1985
1450-1504 Neoplan 60ft. Suburban (LNG) 1992-1993
1505-1599 GMC RTS II-01 Suburban 1977
1600-1699 Flxible Metro 1983
1700-1854 GMC RTS II-01/03's 1977-1978
1900-2199 GMC RTS II-04 (2114-2116 LNG) 1981-1983
2200-2356 Flxible Metro 1985
2400-2586 Ikarus (2579 LNG) 1989-1992
2586-2645 Ikarus (LNG) 1993-1994
2700-2753 Ikarus Suburban 1992-1993
2755-2799 Mercedes (LNG) 1992-1993
3000-3029 Neoplan 30ft. 1986
3300-3479 GMC 5300 Series (New Looks) 1961
3500-3669 Flxible New Look Suburban 1971-1973
3700-3760 Neoplan 45ft. Suburban (LNG) 1993
3800-3849 Ferroni 30ft. Suburban (LNG) 1992-1993
3900-3934 Ferroni 30ft. (LNG) 1992-1993
4000-4199 New Flyer D40LF (4097-4101 CNG, 4102-4106 LNG) 1996-2000
4200-4329 New Flyer D30LF 1997-1999
4400-4469 Neoplan 60ft. Suburban 1996-1999
4500-4599 Neoplan 60ft. 1997-2000
4700-4804 New Flyer D45HF Suburban 1999-2000
5000-5099 MCI Renaissance 2000
5100-5199 Prevost H-345 2000
I seriously doubt anyone could beat this fleet.
I agree that Houston's fleet is pretty awesome. I also like DART's fleet. I always like a diverse fleet although from a management standpoint a fleet like NYCTA is better. Since I'm not a big RTS fan, I'm glad I no longer have to see so many of them. Now I get to see lots of Flxible Metros, Orion V's, Orion II's, NABI & MAN Articulateds , a bearable amount of RTS II-03's, a few Gilligs (which I'm no fan of either) and let's not forget those remaining GM and Flxible new looks at WMATA.
Wayne
According to Glenn's roster, 1746 is scrapped. According to my observations this morning, she's operating on the X63. Long live the 1700s!!!
Q46#3243Gary
1746 may not be scrapped yet. But it sure needs to be. BIG AL
Long live asthma, wheezing, and lung cancer!
What does that mean?
You'd have to be pretty slow to not know what he means!!!
Soot, Lung Cancer, Smoke: THINGS THAT OLD BUSES BLOW OUT!
Based on the fact that I know you live in LA, you should know what that means! DUH!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
On the CTP's at school, we had to do analogies, here's one to add to the ERB's test, lung cancer is to France as pollution is to what?
A) Yo momma
B) 1981 GMC RTS 1245
C) Yo momma
D) Yo momma
Hmm, must be B!:-)
I don't live in LA. I live in Houston. The NEW king of Smog. I also had a general idea of what he was trying to sya, I just wanted to confirm it.
True! But he doesn't live in LA, he is from Houston, TX. And interestingly when I was there in November of 1999, their RTS's were pretty clean burning for them not to be the newest kids on the block. So he might not have a clue of what was stated earlier because where he lives that is not the case with any of their diesel buses. They are very clean, YES! Even the RTS's.
Peace
DaShawn
Lucky you came in November. During the summer, dirty RTS buses were running rampant. Chief among them was 1983 RTS-04 2150. In it's heydey of July it could consume cars and even the D40Lfs in it's thick black smoke. It was always worse during takeoff, but still was giving off large volumes of exhaust in 4th gear. We had others, but this one was by-far the worst.
Interesting! We have our fare share here in NYC as well. Sometimes it's broken fuel injectors, sometimes is just plaining old lack of maintainance. You made a great point about when older equipment is on the verge of being scrapped/retired the maintaince people start to have that "What Ever!" attitude.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
I don't live in LA. I live in Houston. The NEW king of Smog. I also had a general idea of what he was trying to say, I just wanted to confirm it.
Actually that is the reason why the environmental community wants to see the death of the diesel. When stupid comments like that are made it really makes it hard to make an argument for the continued use of diesel. Now the real deal is that if we keep letting these cars and oversized trucks in this place the above statement will become truth! Please check yourself before putting something silly like that up here! When you wake up tomorrow and you are fighting for the air to keep your silly xxx alive! I think you would change your statement. Just think before you write.
Peace!
DaShawn
Of course an 18 year old bus with an 18 year old engine is going to smoke!
Take it from someone who has driven this bus, more than once. Smoke isn't the big problem with this pile of junk. The engine, or transmission has no power at all. This thing is slower than a three legged turtle. And the ride. Forget it. It will bang your teeth out. Everything rattles inside and most of the seats are falling apart. It's dark and dingy inside on a bright day. Why transit keeps this piece of crap on the road I'll never understand. BIG AL
Sounds like my type of bus... to ride that is.
while you in queens continue to operate 18 year old garbage we here at yukon have a daily surplus of express buses mainly orions but some mci. there are quite a few left after service is made.
There should be a surplus of MCIs. They are still new and not too many are o/s. As they get older they will need more maintenance and the surplus buses will have to fill in for the buses being worked on. As for the 1993 Orions I still wind up riding them frequently especially on the X19. What the TA should do is get some service to the South Shore of SI with the excess buses.
KayBee
In the 2000-2004 Capitol plan, there is a slate for 365 new Over-The-Road coaches. The TA is planning to have nothing but OTR buses for the express service.
Be patient, figure by 2005, we will see nothing but MCI Cruiser Type buses on the "X" lines.
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
I'll believe that when I see it. BIG AL
The plan is now up to 447 over-the-road coaches.
David
Has the MCI Cruiser definitely been picked over the possibility of any future New Flyer Vikings?
The New Flyer D45S Viking was not accepted by the TA, so it looks like the obvious and last choice is MCI Cruiser Over-The-Road coaches unless they demo a NovaBUS RTS WFD Super Suburban and I was clearly told NO MORE RTSs by DOB!
R142 Boi 2K
Damn we wont see New Flyer D45S on the road & MTA is accept to buy more MCI Cruiser Over the Road in the future? So what next?
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Why MTA not accepted the New Flyer D45S Buses??? It there something wrong with the bus or they change their mind getting more MCI Buses?
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Right now I'm talking with New Flyer as to why the buses were not accepted by the TA and I'll gladly post there results once I get the whole story!
R142 Boi 2K
MCI offered the TA a better package. Thats the rumor i heard. Remember that MCI maintains our MCIS.
Kevin
I'm tired of asking what everything is, but what is an RTS WFD Super Suburban?
The NovaBUS RTS WFD is a totally redesigned RTS from the RTS-08 bus with a wide front door (thus the title WFD) with front door wheelchair lift. The Super Suburban was designed to be in competition with the MCI Commuter Cruiser bus. The Super Suburban has enclosed parcel racks, reclining seats, and exact ammenities as a MCI Cruiser Coach.
NJ Transit recently tested two out to see if they could buy those instead of the MCIs, apparently MCI won the competition, but in a way NovaBUS won because NJ Transit decided to pick the RTS WFD Super Suburban as a replacement for the Flxible METRO-B Suburbans in service.
Go to the NovaBUS web site at www.novabuses.com and look for the "RTS Express" all of the information is there!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Starting next week, 6 more buses will be needed to make service on the x-bus lines. They won't be sitting idle long.
-Hank
I'll second that!
Saw his bus at SJU with the little kids there today- think it was something affiliated with the Inner City Games. It was there for show I think. They had a few fire trucks there also. All I know SJU was packed with kids.
Q46#8357Gary
Hope this is not a stupid question, but what is SJU? BIG AL
SJU= St John's University in Jamaica.
Q46#8357Gary
i think he means st johns university.
Wonder why are NYC bus stops so close to each other. One of the drastic ones: on PAS one in the middle of 28th St station platform, the next one at the end. If people can walk in the subway why not on the streets. I think every 5 blocks should be enough.
Arti
I know of 2 blocks that two bus stops on them, and they are both on 48th Street in Queens.
• Northbound at 50 Av (NE corner) (B24, Q39) - 48 Av (SE corner) (B24)
• Southbound at 50 Av (SW corner) - Laurel Hill Blvd (NW corner) (B24, Q39)
JTLYK, there is no 49th Avenue at 48th Street.
The SB M5 used to stop at the corner of 72nd and Broadway before turning right, and again just after turning. One of those, I'm not sure which, has been eliminated.
The SB M5 and M7 stop on the west side of Columbus Circle, in front of the Coliseum, and then again on the east side of Columbus Circle, on CPS.
Many routes treat (or have treated in the past) Broadway and the avenue it's crossing as separate avenues. The EB M66 used to stop on both the west side and the east side of Broadway/Columbus; the WB M66 did the same for a while, and for a while it instead stopped between Broadway and Columbus and also on the west side. (Now I think it only stops once in each direction.) The M42 and NB M104 stop(ped) on both sides of Times Square. The M16 and M34 stop(ped) on both sides of Herald Square.
The WB M34 stops on 34th Street in front of the Javits Center and then proceeds all the way around the building to stop again in the bus loading zone on the lower level. Not many people stay on board unless it's raining.
I know of the 34th Street stops. The Q32 stops at the 6th Avenue stop (in front of HMV), and at Broadway (in front of Macy's). Another thing, the stop at 5th Avenue (after the Q32 makes the turn) is on the same block as the 6th Avenue stop.
The Q18 Maspeth bound has a stop on 58 Street and 39 Ave and it's corner stop is at Woodside Ave-Roosevelt Ave on the same block. The Q88 towards Rego Park between 99 St and Junction Blvd has 3 stops on the same block but that block is really long.
MTAKing823
[The Q88 towards Rego Park between 99 St and Junction Blvd has 3 stops on the same block but that block is really long.]
Those are the Lefrak City stops.
I guess before Lefrak City was built they were on 3 separate blocks.
[I guess before Lefrak City was built they were on 3 separate blocks]
Lefrak City was built long before the Q-88 ever existed! I forget when it was started, but the Q-88 is a relatively new route.
If it wasn't, they Q32(and M4) wouldn't stop at 5th and 34th. It's better that they stop after the turn, than before, since that intersection is a nightmare!
-Hank
I know. Sometimes, it's quicker to walk down 34th Street than take the bus.
Another place where the above is true is between 41st and Roosevelt Avenues in Flushing. I get off the bus there (as well as most Flushing-bound people) and walk up to Roosevelt. It's quicker than walking.
[I know. Sometimes, it's quicker to walk down 34th Street than take the bus. ]
M50 is even slower, middays you can walk faster than the bus, at least b/w 3rd and 8th Avenues.
Arti
When the M17 became the M79 and its WB stop at Broadway was moved across the street, I started getting off at Amsterdam and walking to Broadway to catch the M104. Otherwise I'd have to wait on the bus for the light at Broadway to turn green and then wait again to cross back to the east side of the street.
In Flushing, the N20/21 stops at Kissena & Main street, then again at Main and Roosevelt. These bus stops are so close to eachother, one could easily get to Main from the Kissena stop in a minute by walking.
I have a feeling they set it up this way because of the traffic jam on Main street, so people can get off at Kissena and Main and get to the subway faster by walking, then sitting in traffic on the congested Main street.
Most people however, get off at the last stop.
Also the N20/21 (westbound) stops at both east and west sides of Northern Blvd at Middle Neck road. But the bus stops may be close to eachother, but the route goes to Great Neck LIRR and comes back.
The first stop is in front of the diner, the other in front of Leonards. Again, it's only about a minute or two apart walking distance.
The M79 used to stop at Third (NW corner) and then again at Lex (NE corner).
But those stops were separated by nearly one long block, which I don't think is a big deal. Crosstown buses typically stop at each avenue (except, now, Park). At one-way avenues ideally (IMO) they should stop on the side more useful for transfers, and by that scheme buses would stop twice on the same block between 2nd and 3rd and between Columbus and Amsterdam.
But if we are concerned with two consecutive bus stops of a single route on the same block (i.e., such that it is possible to walk from one to the other without leaving the same sidewalk), there are quire a few. The following come to mind (I may be mistaken on some due to old information or plain old senility):
M5/M7: (SB) CPS/Columbus Circle (SE corner), CPS/7th (SW corner)
M72: (EB) 71/WEA (NE corner), 72/Broadway (SW corner)
M79:
(EB) 5th, Madison (until recently)
(WB) Park, Madison (until recently)
M86:
(EB) Lex, 3rd (???)
(WB) Park, Madison (until recently)
(WB) CPW, Columbus (before the Columbus Avenue construction forced the bus stop across the street)
(WB) Columbus, Amsterdam (now)
M96/M106: (WB) Columbus, Amsterdam (???; this was certainly the case when the bus ran west on 97th to Columbus and down Columbus to 96th)
(Of course, we could also add all SB M1/M2/M3/M4 stops on 5th between transverse/park drive entrances, all NB M10 stops on CPW between transverse/park drive entrances, all SB M5 stops on Riverside between HHP entrances, etc.)
I'm sure there are loads more. I could start listing examples in Champaign-Urbana, but there are loads of them around the UIUC campus.
The stops that boarder CP don't count because there are blocks on the other side of the street.
Your scheme is already in effect WB M14, 1st ave
Legally, bus stops are parking regulations, and thus fall to NYCDOT to install, remove, and/or relocate. (Enforcement is still done by NYPD, Sanitation, Parks, and numerous other agencies.)
NYCDOT policy on bus stop spacing is every 750 feet, on average, and generally on the far side of (i.e. after) an intersection. That can vary with block length and/or the presence/absence of accessible sidewalks, schools, houses of worship, curb cuts, subway entrances, stops for connecting routes, and so forth.
BTW, DOT likes far-side stops so that passengers won't try to cross the street in front of the stopped bus and get hit by a passing car. The major exception is on streets like 86th Street (Brooklyn) or numerous Bronx streets with elevated rail structures supported by mid-street columns. In those cases, DOT likes the stops at the near side so that traffic backing up behind the bus (in the ONE moving lane) won't block the intersection.
[NYCDOT policy on bus stop spacing is every 750 feet]
Why did they come up with that number? It takes an adult about 100 seconds to walk that distance, bus usually spends longer than that in a stop.
Arti
The NYCDOT policy of 500-750 feet (2-3 blocks) between bus stops was probably a compromise between the needs of bus users [no more than 1.5 blocks from a stop] and the need for metered parking [and accompanying revenue].
Besides, a bus that stops every 200 feet goes nowhere fast.
Actually I think that every 5 blocks would be OK.
Arti
So would crosstown be every 2 blocks?
[So would crosstown be every 2 blocks? ]
Not a bad idea, in that case in the middle of the block.
Arti
>>>Actually I think that every 5 blocks would be OK.<<<
You might not say that if you were an elderly person or a person with a medical condition.
Peace,
ANDEE
[You might not say that if you were an elderly person or a person with a medical condition. ]
Well an avenue block is about 4 street blocks. If you live on an avenue you'll have to walk that distance one way or another anyway.
Arti
Nobody has to walk that distance. I refer you to the proverb:
You can only walk halfway through the woods before you start walking out.
[Nobody has to walk that distance. I refer you to the proverb: ]
Avenue is one way. So if I live on an avenue theoretically one way I have to walk one avenue block, the other way nothing.
Arti
Ever been on park avenue?
[Ever been on park avenue? ]
There is only M1 running b/w 33rd and 40th streets only 7 blocks 2 or 3 stops (don't remember exactly), it's an exeption.
Arti
Actually, the one runs all the way down to Union Square.
If you're not talking about Park Avenue South, then Park Avenue begins at 32ND Street.
He di'dn't ask about PAS :-)
Arti
So then it runs 8 blocks southbound, 7 northbound. The M98 also runs on Park Avenue, southbound between 135TH and 120TH.
Also M2/3 b/w Union Square and 25th northbound.
Arti
Although the Manhattan Bus Map shows the M98 route southbound on Park Avenue between W 135 St and W 120 St, the few times I've ridden on it, the bus got off the Harlem River Drive at 5th Avenue and took it south to W 125 St, where it went east to Lexington Avenue. I'm not sure which is the real regular route!
So there are no stops on Park Avenue anyway?
Arti
It did that with me too and I was wondering about that as well.
Park Ave is unique in being the ONLY north-south throughfare without any bus service at all. Most likely, since the northbound M98 runs along the HRD from 125st, the southbound likely doesn't make any stops either, except perhaps betwen 125 and 120, where the M98 runs on Lex. Below GCT, it's ALL Park Ave South, as per the official city maps.
-Hank
What about West End Avenue? It doesn't have much service either.
You're right. 11th/West End Ave also doesn't have much in the way of bus service, excepting 54th-72ns St.
-HAnk
No, Park Avenue starts at 32ND Street.
[No, Park Avenue starts at 32ND Street. ]
Do you know why? Why not 34th?
Arti
It just does, the first section of 4TH Avenue renamed Park was between 32ND and 34TH. At the time, little here was developed and it didn't make much difference. The tunnel wasn't even covered over yet, and it was used for steam pulled heavy rail. As time went on, sections of Park were gradually extended until they got to Fordham. The question is, why didn't park begin with the beginning of the railroad alignment at 26TH?
Located my map. Date says '1924'. It's official NYC, got the seal and everything, and is from the 'Department of Water, Sewers, Gas, and Electric' and penciled under it is 'Electrical [indecipherable] Brooklyn' On this map, it's labeled '4th Ave' up to 40th Street, which is the northern edge of the map. South is 20th St, west is 5th Ave, east is East River.
-Hank
Then it is wrong. If it is not, then the city was confused about itself.
Yes, pigs here already got ya on this one, and I knew he was gonna, but hey, I've known this for a while, so this is one of the things I stress.
PARK AVENUE BEGINS ON THE NORTH CORNERS OF 32ND STREET. PARK AVENUE SOUTH BEGINS ON THE SOUTH CORNERS OF 32ND STREET.
Go over there sometime. See, on the northwest corner of 32nd street, see the big fat 1 on the canopy of the building?????
You should also stress the use of the </MARQUEE> tag.
Yes, pigs here already got ya on this one, and I knew he was gonna, but hey, I've known this for a while, so this is one of the things I stress.
PARK AVENUE BEGINS ON THE NORTH CORNERS OF 32ND STREET. PARK AVENUE SOUTH BEGINS ON THE SOUTH CORNERS OF 32ND STREET.
Go over there sometime. See, on the northwest corner of 32nd street, see the big fat 1 on the canopy of the building?????
The 1 is supposed to be on the northeast side. East is odd, west is even.
The Only One Park Avenue is in fact on the east side.
Arti
I meant addresses on the side of the avenue. East side of avenue is odd, west side is even. This is consistent north of 23rd, except for 5th Avenue near the park, CPW and Riverside, all of which have all numbers on the same side.
[I meant addresses on the side of the avenue]
That's what I said. That's how they advertise 1 Park Avenue.
Arti
North on 23rd on every avenue? On 1st avenue (near 14-20th sts), where I know that the odd numbers are on the west side, at 23rd street, does it switch?
It does on Broadway, so it would on 1st also.
Oh ok.
Pigs, are you lost ? Better look out this can be a rough group here, and they throw mud vs. wallowing in it !
Mr t__:^)
I was illustrating that one need only walk half the distance between bus stops to get a bus.
[You might not say that if you were an elderly person or a person with a medical condition. ]
If they take a subway (subway platforms 600'exit sometimes in one end...), live in outer boroughs, go from somwhere on the avenue not near major cross-streets to another avenue not near cross-streets (if they don't want to spend another fare) they'll have to walk even more.
Arti
Speaking of bus stops as parking regulations, see my Roadpic Quiz II page, part 1, (012). Yes, as of mid-March, that was still standing.
Unlike my other B24 post, where I ranted about how they should bring back the B30, this one is about the new schedules I found yesterday on that bus.
Namely, the change I immediately noticed was the fact that according to the schedule, the route now terminates at Manhattan Avenue in Greenpoint. (I noticed this via the map on the back. Thank goodness they're back!) However, I saw no notice about the route being cut back from West Street on the buses. I guess the Manhattan Av-West Street segment was totally forgotten in the cut back. They also cut the frequency to 20 minutes during rush hours, 40 minutes during evenings (every day), and ½ hour all other times.
This is the Spring 2000 schedule, and there appears to be less service on this route.
I believe that they actually added service here, eff. 5/22. In the evening , headway will be 30 minutes until 12:15 A.M.; then it goes to 35-40 for the last two trips.
I heard two more runs were added to the line.
What is the New turnaround routing at Manhattan Av,,
Steve (thanks)
THanks
Steve
I called Customer Service,,,they literally had no clue of what I asked them ,,she started reading me the Detour on Broadway
Steve
The one time I rode the B24, which was several years ago, the driver made the full loop at West Street, and then took his layover at Manhattan Avenue (facing Queens).
That seems to allow the driver to actually find a decent place for a personal relief.
The timetable probably reflects this.
anyone out in this bulletin board - work as a bus operator out of fresh pond road
bear
The Maspeth Depot and Central Maintenance Facility has been delayed yet again until the year 2003.
The depot is slated to house diesel transit buses only but has capabilities to maintain CNG, MCI, and Articulated buses. It's a huge facilities layed out for 2-3 floors, much like Kingsbridge and Westside.
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Spotted 6359 today, with a NOT IN SERVICE sign up today at Madison and 33rd street.
What is 6359?
the 635x Series is our Orion VI (6) Hybrid Eletric Buses.
Buses #6350-6353 were originally slated for NJ Transit but never got there, they are our 1998 versions! #6354 is our ONLY 1999 version, and #6355-6359 are our 2000 versions! The 1999 and 2000 versions are identical in interior and exterior, your basic TA layout. The 1998 versions have Black paint, and plush seating, more of a NJT layout.
Below are some pics:
The 1998 (NJT Style) Orion VI Hybrid
The 1999/2000 (NYCT Style) Orion VI Hybrid
The next Hybrid buses up to bat are the NovaBUS RTS-06 HEV buses due between June and July, Buses #6360-6364. The in 2001 the Orion VII Hybrids will follow, approximately 125 of those!
R124 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Great pics of the new Hybrid electrics. Keep them coming. BIG AL
See More Hybrids!
Click here for 1998 Orion VI HEV
Click here for 1999 Orion VI HEV
2000 pics coming real soon!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Excellent pictures. Keep them coming. If you can get some pics of the insides, that would be great. Otherwise, good job. BIG AL
Actually I have done interior recently, I have to develop it!
Probably within the next week because it's shots of 6355-6356 on this roll that I want to post!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Also, If you can get some pictures of the driver's area and the dash boards, I'll nominate you for #1 bustalk post person. BIG AL
I'll see what I can do for ya!
R142 Boi 2K
I originally saw the 1998 version on the M5 route. A few days later, I was looking all over the M5 route for it. I finally rode one of those buses a couple of months later on the M60 route. I rode it all the way across the bridge to 31st Street, where I got off and went for the N train. It's pretty cool, and they have a rear window, which I haven't seen since the Fishbowls.
Speaking of Fishbowls, if you look at the Classics, they kinda look like Fishbowls. (Except for the fact they have no rear window.)
The lower portion of the body (below the window-line) on GM fishbowls and Classics are identical. My understanding is that when GMDD developed the Classic it was basically an updated fishbowl.
Wayne
That is correct! The Classic is basically a fishbowl designed on the ADB (Advanced Design Bus) specifications. I love the fishbowls but its nice to see the classics also. Alot of Canadian systems have the model TC-40102N which has no A/C and a back window. The models here are TC-40102A's of course because they have A/C.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
This is a question about a box that looks something like this:
PASS PASSSTUD'TADULTSPCLXFERBYPS
What is it used for and what does each indication mean?
That box shows what each passenger pays as he or she gets on the bus. It's a indicator that let's you know what your fellow passengers are paying, OR FOR THE REAL REASON, so that Undercover cops can see whether each passenger is paying the correct fare.
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Why is it located there? It should go where the driver can see it as well.
The commuter buses in Jersey have electronic signs (black with red digits) that act as a stop-request display (only on NJT buses - they flash 'STOP REQUEST'/'WALK ALERTLY') and as a fare display, indicating the number of the passenger, the zones he is traveling, and the payment method (Cash, ticket, pass, etc.) They're pretty cool and should be on all buses!
why on earth is that cool? it just seems like more work for the maintenence department. Does anyone even remember getting on a bus, paying a simple fare and riding? Perhaps even pulling a cord, hearing a bell and getting off that bus? As the owner of a bus company, I would have to think twice about buying equipment that is not needed. Why not put that money to better use as in keeping up with the junk you got on the buses already.
When a New Jersey Transit bus is loading at the Port Authority Bus Terminal, the driver knows at all times how many seats remain vacant on the bus because of the passenger counting sign referred to earlier in this thread. Thus, it does serve a useful purpose. It's purpose declines as the bus starts on a route, because the counter does not subtract when passengers get off the bus.
I saw one on NJT Bus 3729 riding the 76L from the M&E trains to the RVL Train in Newark.
Why is that so important? I mean, who cares how many zones a person is traveling and how he/she pays, other than people who may actually be interested in that. Besides, you could use a little privacy. Also, the only thing I see that is even worth doing that is the passenger counter thing. Then people can see how many people actually use NJ transit and maybe that could be used as advertising.
That box is not there for the operator to see. We already know the status of everybody who boards by looking at the farebox. As already mentioned, it is only there so that the undercovers, or beakies as we call them see who is paying the fare and who is not and also to see if the operator is doing his job correctly by enforcing the fare and not giving anyone a free ride. BIG AL
Well I wonder what kind of business it is that everybody on the bus know how I'm paying the fare? I find those boxes on NYCT buses
look just plain stupid, and if they exist just for the cops to catch fare beaters, they are a waste of money. How long have these boxes been used for?
Well I'm glad LI Bus does not use them, and I don't think QSC does either. After all, why should everyone on the bus know whether I pay a reduced fare or not? It must be quite demeaning for those who pay reduced fare.
If there is one MAJOR thing I can compliment with LI Bus, it is the fact that they respect riders privacy, by not having these boxes.
And I'm glad QSC don't use 'em either. Plus, QSC has those nice fast CNG buses while NYCT is still pretty much using diesels, but that's a whole another story.
BTW, is NYCT the only bus operator that uses these stupid boxes?
Calm down John. In Houston, we have something like that. It's a little computer on the back of the farebox, only the driver can see it though unless the farebox is a little off center.
And what's wrong with diesel?
Well nothing is wrong with diesel if there aren't alot of buses around. But in Flushing the stench of it is horrible. You can even see clouds of diesel fumes coming out of the Orions, particularly the ones with those horrible bottom exhausts. It seems the RTS's emit less fumes, though I don't know why the Orions seem worse.
I'm not saying all of NYCT should get CNG, but places like Flushing should because there are so many buses, and I think Casey Stengal has the room for a CNG bus fueling facility. At least most QSC buses are CNG, so the pollution is a little better in Flushing. But their new buses are fast, faster than any bus I've rode on before.
Getting back to the fare indication box, it doesn't bother me if the driver sees it, but I don't think the whole bus has a right to know. I think MTA boxes do tell the driver what kind of fare the passenger is paying too, and the expiration date of unlimited cards.
Does Houston still have the original Cubic farebox from about 7 years ago ? The NYC model was patterened on it, although yours still takes bills while ours doesn't.
Mr t__:^)
I wonder what the fareboxes are like on the Long Beach city bus system are? When I was at Long Beach last time, I saw quite a bit of Long Beach buses, all of which are Gilligs.
Has anybody ever rode on the Long Beach bus system? What is the fare, and do the boxes take dollar bills? I wonder where I can get schedules. From what I saw, it's does not look like Long Beach buses accept Metrocards.
Who gives a damn about how people pay anyway? And why must all of your petty PUBLIC doings be private. If you don't want people to see you pay for a bus, don't ride one.
That attitude is why some people would rather drive than take a bus. I believe that if you make transit more comfortable and more reliable, more people would take it. Granted, you can't have as much privacy as in a car, but I think the seniors and disabled would be quite humiliated to have everyone on the bus know they pay a reduced fare. Besides, how much extra do these boxes cost? Is it really neccesary to use them?
Also when it comes to seating, why do DOT operators and LI Bus use the 2 and 2 seating and NYCT does not? I guess I can see the point of using the single seats on one side if the bus gets very crowded, and they need more standing room. The RTS's are a heck of a lot easier to stand on than the Orions though.
But as far as those display boxes are concerned, it's very hard for some seniors and disabled to go out and try to fit in with everybody else, and these display boxes just make it that much harder for them.
It may be a small thing to you, but for some people it's important.
I don't believe in categorizing people, and these display boxes do just do that. I was once on a city bus in Queens and these kids were making fun of everybody who was using a special card when it lit up, and I remember distinct words from them "Oh yeah, he's gonna sit in the front where all the r*tards sit". It's just another tool for the "different" to get humiliated in public. We've come a long way from the days when there was racial segregation on the bus, but, there are still many forms of discrimination out there, and we still have a long way to go to get to equality. I just want to let people know that the display box bothers me, as I have a tendency to feel for the "little people" in what can be a cruel and lonely world for them.
As to the box behind the driver's seat, it's been there since 1986. I would wager that very few people have noticed its presence and even fewer people care. As far as the cited kids go, they seem like the type of people who would have done what they did even without the box.
As to the seating configuration on NYCT buses vs. other operators', the riding patterns are different. NYCT has some feeder routes, especially in Queens and Staten Island, but for the most part its routes are "grid" routes, with frequent on-off activity. The 1x2/2x1 seating pattern allows for maneuvering room in the aisle. On feeder routes, most of the passengers are going to the same place (like a subway station), at least in the morning, so seating is maximized. That's why some of NYCT's 4800-series buses, which were initially assigned to Staten Island, had 2x2 seating when the rest of the order had 1x2 seating.
David
[As to the box behind the driver's seat, it's been there since 1986.]
That reminds me. When I was at Bus Fest this past Saturday, there was a Fishbowl (#5227, the one that retired in 1995) that had evidence of this box and a modern farebox.
Man, you haven't read any posts here in a long time.
I actually liked it that you caused the revival of some threads that have been dead for four months.
They've been there all the time. It's just that they haven't received any responses in the time they were dormant.
It's not officially dead until 5000 messages are posted after the final post in the thread.
As of Tue Sep 26 11:04:40 2000, on ST, the oldest message on the active board is dated Sun Sep 3 02:34:50 2000, while on BT, as of Tue Sep 26 11:05:36 2000, the oldest message is dated Sat Apr 22 22:13:44 2000. Each board displays 5000 messages.
It's dead when the discussion ends.
The thread was long dead.
John, I have a question. What exactly is the matter with you? Did you have a bad day riding a NYCT bus? Did one pass you by in error? Why should the elderly and disabled be humiliated if people see them paying half fare? Who the hell cares? They pay half fare because that is a PRIVILEGE granted to them. Not because they can't afford it. When people see them paying half fare, guess what? Those people wish they could pay half fare also. When I go to the movies, I would love to ask for a senior discount, even though I am nowhere near 65. And as for the people you say are making fun. Any mature person will tell you that THEY are the one's with the problem. You learn to ignore them. I have kids get on the bus every now and then and make fun of me. I'm sure every driver does. Do you think I care. Hell no. I just do my job. So why don't you grow up and stop worrying what other people might think. You will live alot longer and be happier than those people are. Granted it's nice you care about other people, but you have to be mature about certain matters also that do not pertain to you. And you will also find most NYCT operators are very nice if you would take the time to compliment them for the fine job they do dealing with the busiest bus system in the country. BIG AL
One thing I do that most others don't is I always thank the driver when exiting the bus. All bus drivers have it hard, in different ways, and alot of riders don't appreciate that. Most problems that I have had are not the drivers fault, but a failure of equipment (the bus) and a traffic delay that the driver had no control over.
And while NYCT drivers have it hard, LI Bus is no picnic either. Drivers run on tight schedules and often run late and cannot make up lost time, and bus breakdowns add to the agrivation. Most of the time I've rode buses in Queens they are usually on time, but LI Bus routes, especially the N20/21, usually always run late because there isn't enough time alloted in the schedule for the many traffic jam spots.
The N27 rarely runs ontime as the almsot continuous 5 to 10 minute delay at Glen Cove road and Northern Blvd is present.
And as a result, LI Bus drivers often don't get a break for many runs, and what makes it harder is some of the layover spots (like in Glen Cove,for example) don't have much of anywhere for drivers to get a quick bite to eat when on their break.
Getting back the diplay boxes, well we just have a difference of opinion. I don't like them for the reasons I've said, and they bother me. Besides, a more practical thing to go in that spot could be an automatic bus stop display to announce the stops, which is rarely done on NYCT,BTW. Isn't there some kind of law in the ADA that requires these automated systems be placed on all new buses?
Well, those people who make fun of people aren't really that smart. Anyway, I also don't really see the point of that though.
obviously they have had problems with their bus drivers doing there job. In fact nyc transit drivers are the most discoutious drivers in the city. Many have attitudes. I also ride command and green bus often and there drivers are nicer. And guess what they get paid far less. Go figure
If you were to ask people what purpose the box served, I bet you 9 out of 10 would'nt have a clue.
As a NYCTA driver, I object to you labeling all of us as being discourteous and having attitudes. While it's true that we have some malcontents the majority of us do a good job despite having to deal with horrendous traffic conditions, indifferent management, and a riding public that at times can be down right hostile. With all due respect to our brethren at Green Lines and Command Bus,we at NYCTA carry more people in one day than they probably do in one week. Let those operators deal with the things we have to on a daily basis and I guarantee that you would see a change in their dispositions.
I've had good and bad bus drivers everywhere, but the most dangerous act I saw was performed by a driver on the Q14 who went over the curb and almost ran me over.
Ah Ha! I knew there was a reason you don't like NYCT transit operators or their buses. Did it ever occur to you that this operator could have been new? Maybe that was his first day on the job by himself? I know what you're thinking. No way, right? You never know. Maybe the steering was bad on the bus? A hard to turn steering wheel that should have been roadcalled. But the operator did not want to inconvience the people, so he stayed in service. I'm quite sure he did not intend to go over the curb, not to mention running you down. Just curious. On what day of the week did this happen? And what time? It could give an indication about how long the operator has been on the job. It's not definite but say if it happened Saturday night around 11:30 pm. I can almost guarentee you, that would have been a new operator, probably just out of training. BIG AL
Nope, this was a senior, regular driver for that run. The person standing with me at the bus stop regularly takes that bus and has had the driver for many years. And this was around 5pm BTW, right smack in the middle of rush hour.
She told me to watch out for him when she saw who was driving the bus as it approached, and to step back from the curb. That advice saved me an injury!
He must've been a regular because everybody who gets on the bus knows not to mess with him.
You're wrong, I do like NYCT buses and operators, but there will always be some bad ones out there. I'll admit though I am partial to the Orion CNG's at Queens Surface, they are so much faster and more comfortable than the NYCT diesels.
I once had a driver from Stengal depot (on the Q14) almost run me down while waiting at the stop in Whitestone. He went right over the curb and almost hit me! Someone else waiting at the stop told me this driver is mean and drives like a maniac. You should've seen him take off before a poor old lady even had a chance to pay her fare. And a emergency window was flapping open making a loud sound, he did absolutely nothing.
Many NYCT drivers I've had are friendly, but I do think QSC drivers are in general more friendly and are better drivers. Perhaps alot of the NYCT drivers fit in with the "harshness" of their diesels. QSC drivers are more patient and use their horn less, and drive much smoother running CNG buses.
Of all the bad things that have happened to me on LI Bus and I've had alot, NYCT takes the cake, almost being run over by a Q14 really shook me up! I did write a letter to NYCT about that event but have gotten no response.
I'm curious though, how much less do DOT drivers get vs. NYCT, and how do LI Bus drivers compare to that?
Just read on the WMATA website that they just received new 40 foot Orion V's and VI's. Not too sure what the serial numbers will be since the last batch ended in the low 4400's. I guess they could start at 4500. The buses are coming in spurts over the next few months with an option for another 330. I live right across the street from the Arlington Division, so I may go over to see if I see any, or I'll go down to Crystal City to the Four Mile Run lot to see if any show up. I guess this is the end of the 1979 RTS (9001-9115).
Also, is it me or are the new Ride On Orion V 40 footers a lighter blue than the rest of the Ride On fleet? Plus, what's the deal with the yellow poles inside? I guess silver was too boring.
New Orions? I don't think so. Nothing new has come for a few months.
The 1979 RTSs are still running out near my place on the T2.
Also, I haven't noticed a lighter blue on the Ride-On buses but I have noticed the yellow poles. Probably easier to find them at night when the bus is dark.
Maybe you can answer this. Why do some RO buses have an "A" at the end of the unit number (ie 5110A)?
I was surprised to hear of the new buses too, but apparantly, the first couple arrived today. See www.WMATA.com and go to the news release section. They brought the new buses to the DC boys and girls club for them to paint a mural on and Orion donated $5,000 to them as well.
I see several RTS running around on the 22A and B during rush hours and a lot are used on the Pentagon/Springfield runs, they are in rough shape, though. I wish they would paint at least one with the new livery just to see what it would look like.
The A after the RO unit number, hmmm, not sure what that may be. Maybe its to separate the contract buses from the directly operated buses in case the numbering system overlaps. Just a guess though.
I haven't seen any new WMATA Orion V, but I'll be sure to watch for them. I'm sure that the remaining GM fishbowls and Flxible new looks will be the first to go. I thought there was at least one RTS in the new WMATA paint scheme. I was driving NB on Route 1/I-395 near to the Pentagon and I thought I saw one leaving the Pentagon, but it was getting dark and I couldn't take a good look as we know how traffic is in that area. There is a MAN articulated in the new paint scheme. It's number 5118. I hate to see that old buses go, but it's good to know that WMATA is getting more new buses and thankfully they're not RTS.
RE: Ride-On 40ft Orion V's. I think it's the same blue, but they look a little strange because there is more white area after the blue. I guess Ride-On has to adjust the paint scheme for a 40 foot bus, but extending the blue area because most of the bus fron the rear door back is white. I was curious about those yellow poles also. This morning I saw number 5725. Thats the highest number I've seen so far on the new 40 foot Orion V at Ride-On.
I've also noticed the "A" that's been added to the fleet numbers on some Ride-On buses. I've noticed it on the 31 foot Gilligs and 30 foot Orion I.
Wayne
New WMATA paint scheme? What does it look like?
Here is the old scheme:
Here is the new scheme:
Hope this helps!!!
R142 Boi 2K
I was noticing that too with the new Ride On 40 footers. They look a lot longer than the WMATA ones because of all that white in the back. I like the LED destination signs though. Alexandria DASH has Gillig's with that as well. I usually see the 5700's on Route 26 between Montgomery Mall and Glenmont, but once I saw it on Route 40 which was odd since I didn't think that bus gets a lot of riders just going up an down Randolph Road since there are other routes on there already. I guess they were doing that to show off their new wheels.
The one Flxible Metro that I saw that was finished with the new paint scheme, (#8865) had the front doors painted white as well instead of leaving them black as the rest of the seem to be.
I think someone has a picture of WMATA Orion's that have the new paint scheme. The one part that you can't see in the picture is the part of the back of the bus normally painted black around the air conditioner vents, are painted blue now. Also, they now have two red stripes on the sides instead of red and blue.
I will be visiting Washington DC next weekend. Can anybody tell me what routes the 1979 RTS, GM Fishbowls and New Look Flexibles operate on. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
These buses pretty much only operate during peak hours. On the weekend you can probably still find some RTS operating but not many of them. The RTS seem to be divided between VA and MD routes. You really won't find them in the district. I don't know much about VA routes, but I most often see the RTS and Fishbowls on routes the serve the Pentagon.
In MD one of the best places to catch these buses is at the Silver Spring Metro station. Some of the routes for the RTS are Q2,C7,J2 and many of the Z routes. The fishbowls also operate on these routes.
The Flxible new looks are extremely rare. I think there's less than 10 of them left. I see one regularly on the Z5.
Wayne
RTSs can be found on the T2 on weekdays but the T2 is operated by Ride-On on Weekends.
Washington DC operates those buses? I know they have 33 year old 6607 but I didn't know they still had Flxibles and RTS-03s.
BTW, 6607 was in Howard Sterns, Private Parts.
What's the difference between a GM Blitz and a regular Fishbowl?
I believe the Blitz Corporation refurbished a lot of the Fishbowls.
To add to what 1C/Ballston said...
Blitz rebuilt some NYCTA/MABSTOA GM fishbowls (I think 350 total) in 1984/85. All of the rebuilds were renumbered into the 5XXX series.
The NYCTA/MABSTOA Blitz rebuilds were 3 different models. They were:
TDH-5303AC - 50XX series
T6H-5305A - 51XX & 52XX series
T6H-5309A/10A - 53XX,54XX and 55XX series
Hope this helps...
Wayne
What's the difference between TDH-5303AC, T6H-5305A, and 5309A/10A? In general, how can I decipher those codes? I fondly remember the 52XX series.
What was the deal with air conditioning on those buses? Blitz installed new air conditioning, no? In my experience, it was rarely if ever used. (Come to think of it, didn't the buses come with air conditioning originally? That was never used either.) In their last years, I vastly preferred the Blitz rebuilds to the RTSs -- except in the summer.
Were any of the GM fishbowls not rebuilt? Of course, the Flx's weren't, but those were in pretty good shape.
The differences between these models are probably more visual than anything else. The TDH-5303AC were originally numbered from 8000-8202 (NYCTA) and 8301-8780 (MABSTOA). These were the first AC equipped buses to be ordered by the NYCTA in 1966. The originally also had the Bus-O-Rama advertising signs on them also. Only about 23 of these were Blitzed. I think they were 5000-5022. The TDH-5303 is a second generation GM fishbowl.
The NYCTA (1968) T6H-5305A came in two different flavors. Some of them had originally had Bus-O-Rama signs and were originally numbered in 883X-887X series. They were renumbered into the 51XX series. Most of the NYCTA T6H-5305A's did not have Bus-O-Ramas and had the conventional standee windows above the regular windows. These were originally numbered in 43XX,44XX,88XX and 89XX series. They were renumbered into the 51XX and 52XX series. These were third generation GM fishbowls.
The T6H-5309A/10A were pretty much identical. They also looked very similar to the T6H-5305A, but they sounded a bit different. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the difference between the 09A and 10A is the location of the exhaust pipe. Both the T6H-5309A and 10A exclusive NYCTA/MABSTOA models. They are 4th generation fishbowls and are identical to the T6H-5307A. There originally 45XX,48XX and 49XX series (MABSTOA) and 60XX-63XX at NYCTA. They were renumbered to 53XX-55XX series.
The codes are P=Parlor,S=Suburban,T=Transit for the first character. Parlor (P) was used for intercity buses. The second character originally indecated the type of engine: G=Gas, D=Diesel. This was later changed to an 6=6 cylinder diesel Detroit Diesel 6V71 engine or 8=8 cylinder Detroit Diesel 8V71 engine. The third character was for the transmission: H=Hydraulic (automatic), M=Manual. The next 2 numbers indicated the seating capacity and length of the coach : 33 (30 feet long), 45 (35 feet long) and 53 (40 feet long). The next two numbers indicated the series and in most cases the width of the coach.
On 40 foot long buses if the last number was odd the bus was 96 inches wide and if it was even the bus was 102 inches wide. On 35 foot long buses it was the opposite. First generation fishbowls used 01,02,16,17 and it indicated 40 feet-102 inches wide, 40 feet-96 inches wide, 35 feet long-102 inches wide and 35 feet long-96 inches wide respectively.
The last character was added with the third generation fishbowls as either an A=Air Conditioned or N=Non Air Conditioned.
The Blitz rebuilds did have A/C. The local buses operated with no A/C for a year when they were retrofitted with roof mounted A/C units.
There were plenty of GM fishbowls that were not "Blitzed". They were pretty easy to spot.
There are some more variations to the model designation codes for the RTS and Classic that I can post if you'd like.
Hope this helps...
Wayne
As a child i remenmber two types of buses before the grummans and the rts's appeared . One had a square back and small rectangular window and the other had a curved back and larger curved rear window. Can anyone identify these models
I'm not positive, but I think they were the "Old Looks" and the "New Looks"?
The buses with the small rectangular window and square backs were Flxible's. The one's with the curved back and larger curved rear window were GMC New Looks. They were the two prevalent types prior to the arrival of the advance design buses i.e. RTS & Grumman 870's.
Another bus that had a square back and rectangular windows were the ugly, unreliable AM Generals.
The next two numbers indicated the series and in most cases the width of the coach
Odd nubers were 102 wide even were 96" wide.
Blitz also rebuilt some RTS's too didn't they?
Model T6H-5310A, built for NYCTA and MSBA (now NYCT and LIB), was the exception to the rule. It was 102" wide.
David
The 5310's must have been a Ny only model Other final series 40' new looks wee 5308's
Where were the 5310's used and when were they built?
As for the 35 footers you are all correct.
The 2 door transit 35' new look buses were 4517, 4519. 4521. and 4523. Over time I have had the honor to drive buses in each of the series.
Madson Metro T6H-4517 #227 was my favorite new look. TDH-4512 #213 was better yet. She was a clasic.
The T6H-5310(A -- sorry I forgot the A before) was indeed a New York-only model. It was the express version of the T6H-5309A and was built only for NYCTA and MSBA. NYCTA's were built in 1972 and 1973; I believe MSBA had them coming into 1976 or so.
David
All of the T6H-5310A's were delivered in 1972 and 1973. For the production list, please go to: http://www.omot.org/roster/GMList/t6h531a.html
I knew that MSBA continued getting New Looks from GMC after NYCTA stopped. I had assumed (and we all know what happens when we ASSume) that they were 5310As.
David
105-112 was the first batch of MSBA new-look GM's, arriving not too long after MSBA took over the privates in Nassau County; they did have express seating similar to NYCTA's express new-looks. The next MSBA batch, #800-849, arrived in Sept./Oct. 1974 and were T6H5308A's, with typical transit seating. The batch after that, several years later, were Flxible new-looks.
[Odd nubers were 102 wide even were 96" wide.]
This is true of 40 foot buses only. It was just the opposite with 35 foot fishbowls. Also, suburban buses used both odd and even numbers since all of them were 96 inches wide.
I don't think Blitz rebuilt any NYCTA/MABSTOA RTS.
Wayne
Blitz don't rebuilt MTA RTS Buses & NYCT & Midwest rebuilt 1981-1982 RTS Buses from 7000-7049 & 7500-7559. Also what i hear NYCT might going to Rebuilt from 1983 to 1986 about 110 RTS buses.
PS Rebuilt Blitz #5000-#5022 was the orignally from old 100th St Depot back in 1985.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Not so...Blitz has done work on many NYCT buses over the years, including RTSs. The buses just didn't get renumbered.
David
I never heard Blitz rebuilt RTSs in NYC? but Blitz does work many NYCT buses in the past expect RTS. Rebuilt RTSs buses built by NYCT & Midwest company & renumbered.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Coach Crafers did some RTS buses in Minnesotta also
Does anyone here know what blitzes were at hudson?
What happened to 4561? I haven't seen it in months. Also, a bunch of 8900's and 9500's got rid of their aluminum rims and now have standard wheels.
Also, 1747 and 1755 look disgusting, which is very un-Jamaica like. I haven't even seen 1752.
Fresh Pond 9100 series buses are getting standard wheels now.The two that have them are 9147 and 9172.
Add 9175 to that list. I saw 1752 yesterday on X63. Also, 4561 has returned to service as of yesterday- I saw her operating on the Q17.
8942 and 8961 have steel wheels.
MTAKing823
I saw standard wheels on a FP 9500 recently. I believe it was 9569.
I haven't seen this at QV yet. All of the 7000s and 9300s still have their aluminum wheels...for now. I did see 425 recently with steel wheels on the Q27.
MTAKing823
They have a lot of new standard wheels outside the maintenance shop.
I think pretty much all 5 of our 1700's have had it now. Recently I just did a post about the condition of 1746. And Jamaica does not seem to be doing much for them any more, fueling my speculation that pretty soon it will be the big ADIOUS AMIGOS. We will probably be getting in newer RTS coaches from other depots which are being replaced by the MCI's. 4561 was out of service for a short while with problems like bad odors coming in from the engine through the climate control. I also wrote it up for steering problems about 2 weeks ago. It had a very short right turn. Also, just a quick note. 4571 has been down for a few weeks now with a blown engine. They have to have it towed to East New York depot. As for the rims. We just had a very large shipment of new white steel rims come in. I have not heard anything but they seem to be replacing the aluminum rims. I noticed also for the last two weeks now that more and more of the Nova's are getting the steel rims. Why, I don't know but I guess the aluminums have been giving problems. Next week I will ask maintainence about the story with the rims and post what I find out. BIG AL
Thanks I was just curious about 4561 because I haven't seen it in months. The 1700's are totally shot. Ironically, ex-UP bus 1844 seems to look OK on the outside, at least. I just saw Nova 8939 (which I nickname the East New Yorker, because most of the other 8930's are in ENY) with steel rims, as well as 9542.
Most of FLA's Novas (9382-9444) have steel rims, BTW.
From what I have been hearing from the other bus talkers including yourself, Q5Merrick, and from what I have been seeing, it looks like all the Nova's are heading towards the white steel rims. BIG AL
Queens Village 1700's are chugging along, and look to be doing so for some time yet. You can count on seeing 1773, 1767, 1757 and 1745 with some regularity. I have almost given up on the notion that the X68 will get anything newer before the MCI's come in to take over the X-bus routes. Since the 1700's seem desitned to see 20+ years, how about we start calling them the "Terminator's"? Who knows, if the MTA gets full control of LI Bus, maybe they can serve another useful life of 10 years for poor guys like John.
I think there was a thread a while back that the aluminum wheels were problematic in holding air pressure.
I have a two-part question:
a) Am I recreating the past in my mind, or was there a time when passengers had to pay for TA bus transfers? I seem to remember paying a quarter in the early 70's.
b) How precise are the stickers on the sides of buses indicating depot, e.g. Kingsbridge Depot, West Side depot. Trains are often interchanged without there signs being changed; what do the bus stickers indicate?
Thank you for anyone who might have answers!
Transfers: I know that on many or all TA routes you could get a "transfer" and I think it was free, but I don't think it was good on all intersecting routes. I'm not very familiar with it as I grew up in MABSTOA territory. I did use this transfer once on the Q44 to Q43 at Hillside Ave & 150th Street. In the mid/late 70's when the fare was raised to .50 you could buy an "Add-A-Ride" transfer for an additional .25 which was good for a second ride on an intersecting route. On weekends from 6 PM Saturday through 1 AM Monday half fare was in effect and the "Add-A-Ride" was .10 during the half fare hours. Later the half fare disappeared, the fare was raised and eventually all transfers between intersecting routes were free.
The NYCTA depot staff seem to be pretty good about having their buses display the proper depot logos. I've seen a few cases (which is understandable) where buses will get send to another depot and will go into service with the logo from the former depot. Also you can spot the occasional new bus with the "Quality Control Bus" decal, but the depot logo has yet to be applied.
Wayne
Those who pay with change must still pay a 25 cent transfer fee with the fare on LI Bus (10c for reduced fare).
At the M9/M20 turnaround at battery park, they're supposed to turn on West Thames street, then down South End Ave. But I've seen quite a few drivers (both the M9 and the M20) turn up Albany street, then around the corner to the terminal, and one time even made his terminal ON Albany street! And no, the drivers were not coming straight from a depot, and not coming not in service, and did not put up the new route sign before they got to the terminal, they were coming from, and going to PASSENGER SERVICE. Why do they do this, and can they?
Describe the route you witnessed??
Steve
Ok, route eye witnessed:
Vesey St. Westbound
West St. Southbound
Albany St. Westbound
Southend Ave. Northbound
Thank you
Steve
You're welcome :)
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My question is: Why can't the M9/20 wait at the corner of Thames and South End to pick up those coming from the park/Holocaust Museum, etc.? Some are disabled, who should not have to walk 3 blocks up South End Ave. to be picked up at Albany, or elsewhere.
The park also streches way up to chambers, and this stop was made before the museum.
No it doesn't. The promenade extends from the Staten Island Ferry to about 14th Street.
Wagner Park ends at 3rd Place. The park between Vesey and Chambers is Rockefeller Park.
There's still winter garden.
If you don't go indoors (which the Winter Garden is), then the plaza in front of it is called the WFC Plaza, it's linked to Rockefeller Park via the Belvedere.
I lived in this city all my life; since when does Battery Park extend to Chambers St.?
Since 1968 when the Battery Park City Authority was founded.
The first development north of Vesey Street in BPC was opened in 1992.
Oh you just said Battery PARK.
In that case, that isn't the park he's talking about. He never mentioned any park by name. Are you sure he didn't mean Central Park? All he said was "the park."
I meant the whole promenade thing. And I count winter garden & surroundings as part of some park.
Does anyone know the health effects, and other advantages and disadvantages of biodiesel? If you got your hands on it, you could put it in ANY diesel engine. ANY. So if it proves to be worth it, why not start buying it (for the buses)?
Bio-Diesel is salad oil blended with diesel fuel. It gells easily and does not work well in cold climates. When below 30 degrees it gets like crisco and does not flow well.
Put your salad oil in the fridge and see what happens then put it in the freezer. That's what goes on in the bus fuel tank too.
The price is one thing about 50 cents more a gallon. Also not too many places have it yet.For us to get any its a 5 hour round trip with out any problems.
I usually haven't seen to many buses speeding, how can they?
http://www.nydailynews.com/2000-05-19/News_and_Views/City_Beat/a-67176.asp
Oh great, as if NYCT buses aren't slow enough!
Speeding NYCTA buses. Now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
Wayne
All of the NYCT buses have been governed to, what, 35MPH? The express coaches are at about 50, or something like that. What kind of speeding are they talking about?
According to the article, they will be doing speed checks along the Gowanus and on main streets like Union Tpke, Hillside Avenue, Merrick Blvd. in Queens, and on Grand Concourse and Pelham Pkwy in The Bronx. You lead-foots in CAS, YUK, JAM, QV, KB and GH had better watch out!! :)
I think they are governed to 40 and 65?
The speed limit on the Grand Concourse is 30 MPH. A NYCT bus can go 55 on a good stretch. Its not a hard thing to do with a good set of lights annd low traffic. When I worked to M60's it was easy to take a bus 55 MPH and that it was hard to maintain a lane in that speed.
A bus going 35 MPH is much different that a auto doing the same speed.
Although, I just realized, it can depend on the bus you have.
In a late '98 nova (5035), we got from 0-40 in one and a half blocks. Even on 1st avenue on a sunday morning with all green lights going downhill this was pretty amazing. Too bad this wasn't a limited.
Usually, if I have a good bus, I can get it up to 50 MPH going along the Conduit. That's the speed where most of the governors are set. I remember having buses with no governor at all and doing 65 MPH easy, but that never happens any more. It's almost impossible to speed along Merrick blvd with all the lights, traffic and the poor condition of the road. BIG AL
Saturday will be the LACMTA roade at Santa Anita racetrack from 8am oward.
Many new busses will be on display such as New Flyer and NABI along with all the wierd non revenue equipment such as the last new look #330.
See ya all there,
M1 (The M1 and only)
and NYCTA # 5285 will be there
........just around the corner from me .......!!...... how much do they charge for admision ??
When I was riding the N21 last Wednsday going toward Flushing, and hit that bad traffic before Roslyn, I wonder do buses ever detour to avoid traffic and stay on time? In what instances does the MTA permit a detour?
The only buses I know that detour because of traffic are the express buses. They detour away from the L.I.E. when it is backed up and take the local streets. Otherwise the locals never detour because of traffic. The only time they will detour would be if there is some kind of problem or emergency on the route, like an accident or a fire, and the road is blocked. Then a dispatcher will set up a detour and it will be announced what the detour is over the radio. If a bus is running late because of traffic, then either a dispatcher will put him out of service and tell him to drive until he gets to where he should be on his schedule and then go in service or he just gets a late slip to get paid extra when he pulls the bus in. BIG AL
I don't remember any detours due to traffic either. The only times my bus detoured when was Roslyn was having their street fair which closed off the Clock Tower area, so my N21 bus had to take Northern Blvd via the Viaduct.
When the indicent with the Command CNG bus fire at Belmont happened, I remember hearing Hempstead Tpke was closed and N6 buses had to detour over the radio.
But usually detours are rare, and only happen if a road is closed.
I was once on an M104 that made an unofficial detour. We were approaching 72nd Street and there seemed to be something going wrong on the block of Broadway between 72nd and 73rd, as about four or five buses were sitting there. We instead went up Amsterdam to 73rd and then returned to Broadway. Fortunately, no one wanted to get off at 73rd.
I was also once on an M104 that was only stopping to discharge (and for red lights). I had just missed the bus at 79th, so I ran to catch it at the light at 80th and, to my surprise, the driver let me on. Then, even more to my surprise, we skipped the next three stops, even though people were waiting.
this fall I will be launching PROJECT-REDBIRD....to re tape the 2 4 5 6 7 lines or where ever a railfan window is ..!!!
I wanted to GO GREYHOUND & ""leave the driving to us"" however which sould be cheaper??
With GREYHOND ( the dog )... you have many stops for food etc 4 hours to fly & the train...i dont know............
So as an estimate only which one would you choose ??________________________________________ !!!
Whichever you want to spend the time doing. I certainly don't want to go cross-country by bus. According to Greyhound's web site, it takes 2 days, 14 hrs with 2 transfers, and that's the fastest. Slowest is 2 days, 23 hrs with 1 transfer.
-Hank
And if you take Greyhound,just think of how many exciting places to eat that they make their meal stops at. Burger King. Burger King. Burger King. Burger King. Burger King.
Then TRY and sleep on the bus.....
Sorry guys, I think I'll just fly and it'll take five hours. Even if they just serve pretzels and a can of Diet Coke.
When you factor in the cost of the psychiatric help you'll need after the bus trip, the cost of a bus x-country is really higher!
My trip of three years ago just from Cleveland to NY was an event I'll not forget!
However, with all the nonsense that the planes are mustering up these days, not to mention the accidents, near misses and volatile passengers, this frequent flier is re-thinking TRAINS!!!
Two years ago, Amtrak was just the thing in the Pacific NW: Talgo from Seattle to Portland, then a few days later, the Starlight to S.F.(actually Emeryville). Great trip. Railroading the way it OUGHT to be!
Joe Caronetti
Bus has traditionally been the cheapest but considering the differrence in levels of comfort the train is well worth the difference;BUT if you're planning a trip try to buy well in advance IF you're sure when you can leave. Amtrak policy is the price goes up as the train fills up. Stinks. I detest flying myself and only fly when there's no choice. Buut despite the high cost of flying there are residual costs to be considered..like what your time is worth, meals in transit etc. So far I've survived two bus trips from New York City to New Salem, ND; time wise equals Amtrak NYC to Chi and iif nothing else Greyhound goes almost everywhere with no change of modes and runs more than once a day. Repeat.. ALMOSTevrywhere.
You have a point there, about price, frequency of service and points served. The train is and always has been deficient in those fields, even in the heyday.If a person can put up with the extra added attractions a long distance bus will provide, then that is truly the way to go. These days, all one needs to do is slap on head phones and get totally oblivious to the interior environment, while taking in the relatively interesting passing scenery.
Joe C.
i make a yearly 25 hour trip to florida... i try to get the right front passenger seat... most drivers don't seem to mind when i take out my inflatable steering wheel and attach it to the front partition...
seriously... i don't think i could stand a 3 day trip on a bus...
there is a club at yahoo called greyhound through express for anyone here who finds the name greyhound sending chills up their spine...
greyhound club
In 1974 I went from New York to Los Angeles via Greyhound bus. The trip took three days and was torture. It's practically impossible to sleep on a Greyhound bus. Do yourself a favor and spend the money for a plane ticket.
thank you for all of the threads I admit it is a bit rough especially with some persons who ride greyhound
and even some of the drivers as well and dont forget those ""drug sniffing dogs"" cut loose on the bus
and greyhound station ( especially in oaklahoma ) .. I took the wrong route the southern route !! you all have been very helpful !!.......
...
......Well I did it all the way from downtown los angeles to the port authority in new york city ................
.......man!!!!!! what a trip and the characters you see while in transit......
I went cross country via Trailways (Eagle 01 & 05) back in the late '70's. To be kind - I wouldn't do it again under any circumstances. The food quality at rest stops was - well let's just say the food wasn't worth eating.
Dozing replaced sleep.
Intestinal maladies set in after a couple of days. You don't move around on the bus and this will cause your legs, back, arms, neck and all other parts of your body to ache as they go into stall mode.
As for the passengers - Weird and Crazy were found all too often - sitting right next to me.
So - take the train - or the plane - drive yourself - come by boat if you want.
But don't do the bus. That's just too far for that type of vehicle.
........I agree with everything you said.......the only thing I hate about flying is how they put you thru HELL.....
about your vidieo cameras still cameras radiating your film and erase-ing it all out and ihow they INSIST
that everything be CHECKED so the baggage hands can steal everything you got .......!!!!!!!!!
.
Today I rode on New Flyer Articulated #5373 on the BX 12 line to Bay Plaza. The odometer had only 1,520 miles on it. The interior of the bus was devoid of any advertisements and had that new car smell. This is the highest numbered articulated I have seen in service so far this week.
On this past Friday, 5/19 Coach USA stranded about 16 bus loads of charter groups because of a driver shortage. Most of these were school groups going for overnight trips to Washington D.C. and other places. All throughout the previous day they were calling other bus companies in the area trying to secure re-charters, but this being a busy weekend, no one could help them. One of my colleagues got a call at home at 7 PM Thursday night asking if she could supply drivers to drive Coach USA buses. Apparently the Union had given permission to bring in outside drivers. She could not help them. At 5 AM Friday morning our dispatcher at Royal Lines received a call from Canarsie High School in Brooklyn. There were 4 bus loads of kids waiting to go on a 3 day Washington D.C. trip that had been pre-paid. They wanted to know if we could supply buses because Coach USA had just informed them that their buses were not going to show up. Needless to say, we could not help them either.
sol... what would greyhound do, if the 4 bus loads of kids called up the greyhound at port authority and told greyhound that they were going to come over and take a regularly scheduled bus... does greyhound have enough drivers to cover that?... did the group really need to have the charter bus on the days that they were in washington?...
does coach usa have any liability for failing to provide transportation? also the other day in the city i saw a bus with a coach canada livery... is that their canadian division?
Hi Paul,
Let me explain the situation a little clearer. Canarsie High School did not purchase charter bus transportation alone from Coach USA. They purchased THE ENTIRE PACKAGE TOUR from Coach USA, through American Tour Connections a wholly owned subsidiary. This package included hotels, meals, guides, admission fees, and a entire planned itinerary as well as transportation for an all inclusive per person price. In order to properly perform the service, the buses must constantly stay with the group. The hotels and restaurants are usually not in DC proper but out in the suburbs where they are cheaper. I doubt whether Greyhound would be able to accommodate 220 people showing up un-announced on a single schedule. I am sure there will be a big lawsuit, but Coach USA carries an errors & omissions insurance policy to cover these damages. As far as Canadian coaches with the Coach USA livery are concerened; yes they have expanded to Canada where they are called Coach Canada. Among some of their major acquisitions are Autobus Connasiuer in Montreal and Trentway-Wagar in Toronto.
2000 New Flyer Galaxy D60HF Articulated #5400 is now at Atlantic Diesel in Lodi along with some 539x Articulated! I think she is slated for Kingsbridge. Keep a eye out!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Question: Are these buses actually called "Galaxy"??
Joe Caronetti
Checked their web site. No names are assigned to the models. Maybe someone made it up.
Phil H
Hey. Yeah, that's what I sort of thought. Nowhere in their literature or build schedules do they list names.
Thnx,
Joe C
New Flyer has always named their buses, There has been several occasions of pamphlets coming out with the buses names. I have a specification sheet where in the D60 is refeered to as the "Galaxy" and the D45S begin refeered to as the "Viking." The naming of buses are becoming more and more so with New Flyer as their new D40i is named "Invero."
Check you history books on New Flyer kiddies!!!!!! I am a avid fan on New Flyer and Flxible and known thier histories quite well!!!!!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Well I guess you told us, little guy. I should have known you were such an avid fan; your grammatical usage, spelling and punctuation is a dead giveaway. I bow to a higher authority.
Nuff said.
Joe C.
Well it wasn't a telling, we are all here to learn something!
R142 Boi 2K
I was along Skillman Ave and 51 St today and I saw a CTC bus 2825 with a Garage Sign going towards Manhattan. He stopped briefly at 53 St. Again, where was he going if he was heading towards Manhattan with a Garage sign?
MTAKing823
What is a CTC bus?
CTC is Triboro Coach Corp. Yes, it should be TCC, and yes, someone bugged him about it.
On their logo, they use a large T, and two small c's to either side of it, cTc, in a circle.
-Hank
I often see Mabstoa buses from Hudson, Manhattanville, and Westside in Greenpoint Bkln. These buses display the "training bus" sign, and often are packed with rookie drivers. Why do these depots send their new drivers to Bkly. to train. They often go down weird industrial roads where there is no bus service. Sometimes I see them on Manhattan ave. practicing stop and go's on bus stops, where people mistake these for the local B61 service.
Well i doubt they are packed - an instructor and 4 students is the practice if it hasnt changed in the last two years or so.
The whole purpose is to get on the road and drive, learning to handle the bus(keep in mind they dont all have CDLs yet). I trained out of MTV and we would come down the east side over the 59st bridge and into greenpoint, practicing parallel parking and backing up right by crosstown on box st. (hang around the small park at the end of box st and you'll see the crusty old Supt. watching from the curb. what the hell was his name again?? some irish dude.). we went all over the place in those seven days. slaloming around el pillars on westchester av was my fave. even made it out to east NY command center and downtown jamaica and up by gun hill - everywhere.
an keep in mind the students are not assigned to the depot from which they drive the training bus out of normally. they are not learning the routes at this point. after 7 days with the instructor they go to their depot they picked and do line training and learn the routes exclusive to that depot.
I believe the reason they practice in that area is because it is very secluded. Not much traffic and plenty of room to practice parking. BIG AL
Superintendent Donovan is the trainer out of MTV. One of the nicest guys out of training center. I took my shifting qualification with him.
Thats the man.
We have three at this depot just a nice ... helps our drivers smile when they open the door.
Mr t__:^)
His name is Donovan, i know this becouse he was my supt. six year ago out of MTV. I still see him every so often when he being the students to JG.
I once saw a training bus from Yukon trudging along East 149th Street past 3rd Avenue, headed toward Southern Blvd.
You should have seen the "we-sure-ain't-in-Kansas-anymore" looks on the trainees' faces!
Because the training bus was from Yukon DOES NOT mean the trainees will be working in Staten Island. BIG AL
I read in some post from a while back about the 1982 RTS Buses. While you all are still holding on to a small number of a dying breed, we have a nice fleet of a dying breed. So here is the active fleet of 1982 RTS buses in Houston.
1910 1911 1912 1913 1914
1918 1920 1921 1922 1923
1926 1927 1928 1930 1932
1933 1934 1935 1936 1937
1939 1940 1943 1944 1946
1947 1948 1949 1950 1951
1953 1954 1955 1956 1957
1958 1959 1960 1963 1964
1966 1967 1969 1970 1971
1974 1975 1976 1977 1979
1980 1982 1983 1884 1985
1986 1991 1993 1995 2005
2006 2007 2008 2011 2013
2014 2016 2017 2018 2019
2020 2021 2022 2023 2024
2025 2027 2028 2029 2030
2031 2032 2034 2036 2037
2039
That's it, for a total of 86 RTS buses. Plus we have 1981 RTS buses...
1902
1903
1904
1905
1907
1909
So if you're looking for '81 and '82 RTS buses come down to H-Town.
Oh yeah, we also have 1982 RTS bus 1924.
Good show if I get a response I will start posting the dying Los Angeles GMC RTS 04's if ya all are so inclned.
ADVISE PLEASE!
M1 (The M1 and only)
Go ahead. I'd like to see them.
Ok I will do that later on today under the header LA RTS 04 updates.
M1
I was going to ask this anyway, before i answered 'slayer's" posting.....
who has a listing of training buses and their assigned depots - that is which buses are equipped to handle the trolley brake???
The ones i know of:
MTV 8800, 4795
FP 8131, 8161
JAM 4572
YUK 8299
CAS 8328
JG 4669??
ADD 4571 and 5169 to the Jamaica list. And in Q.V. I think they have 9367 for training. BIG AL
Ulmer Park 9100,4785, and one other I think.
8454 & 8458 are the two buses assigned to 126th St Depot which are used for the training of new operators. Today while walking down Pelham Parkway I spotted bus 5134 out of MTV which was being used for training purposes.
Spoke to maintainence this morning while drilling. The aluminum wheels have been causing the lip of the tire to break. That's the section where the tire meets the rim. ALL the NYCT buses are now having their aluminum wheels replaced by the standard white wheels. I think that's too bad. I liked the way the aluminums looked. (gave the bus that souped up mag wheel look.) BIG AL
who is paying for this?
OK, are these tires leased or owned by the agency?
NYCT, like many bus operators, leases its tires.
David
I liked the way they looked also. WMATA is doing the same thing.
Wayne
There was also a problem between the steel & aluminum where the rim attached to the wheel ... the metals got stuck on each other :-)
Mr t
I'm not a diehard bus fan but passively so. Most of what's on Bustalk is quite recent and I've been gone a long time; but can volunteer some help or thoughts on Bronx busses in the 50's if anyone needs such info. Alittle bit on Manhattan but virtually blind on NYC Omnibus.
Well, I lived off Fordham Road where Kingsbridge Road intersects during the 1950's so I guess I qualify.
I remember LOTS of GM TDH5106's -- especially the bunch delivered in 1959 that had the flourescent lighting and the wraparound seats in the rear of the bus (3020-3059). They Seems to be used almost exclusively on the Bx12 on Fordham out to Pelham Bay park an City Island. There were also a few Macks also in the 3000 series from what I remember.
The Bx20 on Kingsbridge Road always seemed to get what seemed to me at th time VERY old GM old looks -- now that I know a bit better I'd say they were the TDH4506's or TDH4507's. These things could put out some smoke and fumes going up the hill on Fordham Road! I remember they all had some extra grilles on the engine access hatches; I don't recall seeing these anywhere but on Surface Transit buses.
I also remember in the summer how buses would struggle up the hill on Kingsbridge west of University Avenue. The buses would creep, it was HOT, and it always seemed like they wouldn't make it! Funny thing was, I don't remember any bus ever breaking down until the GM New Looks came along (the 6400 series in 1964 or so).
During the early 1960's I had to ride the Bx1 down the Concourse to get to high school. Most of the buses were the 3161-3210 TDH5301's plus air conditioned but somehow we always got an old TDH4507 on the ay home (somehow bus 2728 stays in my mind -- at the time, it was 17 years old, and nowadays I am driving RTS's that are older that it was!) I would occasionally use the Bx41 on Webster Avenue, and then
catch the 149th Street crosstown bus -- which got the TDH5303's with a/c (8000 series) when they were first delivered in 1967. I recall how cold it was in them the first few weeks they ran. That didn't last long; before anyone knew it, all the windows would be open.
I'm quite familiar with your old neighborhood; right near the Con Ed building. I figured I had to visit Fordham Rd. last time (March) I was in the Bronx, walked from Jerome to Webster..not bad. A lot different from last time I was there about l968. The BX20 route was a Kingsbridge route if I remember, that barn had both TDH4506 (about 8 vents on the roof, numbers ll00-ll96) and the TDH4507 with the one vent in front and one small one...ll97 thru l299 were Kingsbridge.So likely you saw both types. As much as I liked both those models I remember too often the black smoke and seeing disabled busses parked on Ogden Ave (I was a Highbridge man); Surface TRANSPORTATION System was not financially healthy. The grilles you mention..I remember them on 5th Ave models but not the Bronx ones.??? That number you had in mind 2728 must have been a transplant from Manhattan, all the TDH4507 on Surface were ll97-l599; likely you're right because byl962-63 or so many Manhattan busses were sent to the Bronx to supplement the ailing fleet, but then they were renumbered into 4000's. I'm a Taft 6l grad; guess that makes me a little older than you. Till later.
Hey there.
I'm still living there. For the last 12 years, at 206th and the G.C.
Still Kingsbridge domain, with some G.H. in the area too.
I'm a DeWitt Clinton 1966 grad and recall those early days too fondly. Taft was my summerschool for 3 years. A that time I lived in the Hub at 150th and Courtlandt Ave. The Bx2 turned north right on my corner and passed my windows. In 1967 when the winged 8000's (TDH 5303) went into service,they'd create quite a light show in the bedroom.
Riding the Bx2 to Taft in 1964-66 I got to experience some of the most deplorable, yet fun, buses of any time. They literaly pulled buses off the storage line. They had rows of seats missing. Bouncing up the cobble stone of Courtlandt Ave, I still recall the floor pulling away from the side of the bus, near the emergency door. Great entertainment before Geometry class.
Joe Caronetti
Sounds like fun! If you're not afraid it would fall apart under you.Personally I thought the fishbowls (5303's were?) one of the ugliest busses created. I like the modern ones better, but of course my childhood was spent on 4506,4507,4509,530l etc,late 40's early 50's so I'm partial to them. Gad I was in your neighborhood in March.. In riding busses to see how the Bronx looked after I hadn't seen most of the neighborhoods (including Highbridge) isince the late 70's. Rode the Allerton line (26) from whereI was staying (Eastchester near Gunhill) over to Jerome a couple of times. Good to see that the Bronx is holding up and largely restored. Sad to say I have no idea what I'm riding on busses.. the trains I followed up on.
[That number you had in mind 2728 must have been a transplant from Manhattan, all the TDH4507 on Surface were ll97-l599; likely you're right because byl962-63 or so many Manhattan busses were sent to the Bronx to supplement the ailing fleet, but then they were renumbered into 4000's.]
I recollect that there were 2 separate series of 4000's in the Bronx. Before the City takeover of Surface Transit and the birth of Mabstoa, Surface had some TDH4509's that were in the 4000 series, painted in Fifth Avenue green and yellow. I suspect these were bought second-hand, but don't know for sure. Very shortly after Mabstoa began, some 4000-4499 buses from the TA fleet in Brooklyn began appearing in Manhattan on Mabstoa routes. Initially, a "T" was placed before the number to differentiate these from Surface Transit's 4000's, but soon Surface Transit's 4000's were renumbered into the 2200's. Eventually, some of the TA 4000's found their way from Manhattan up to the Bronx, but didn't last long as more new looks came in.
Sid,
Those TA 4000's were the 500 TDH4510's. They came up in the early take over days and lasted until about 1966 or 1967, being replaced buy the increasing # of TDH5303's. There were 501 built, the odd one being in L.A., which I hope still survives.
Joe C
That reminds me there were two groups of ex-5th Ave. busses that went to the Bronx: first was TDH4506, l946 vintage if I recalllooked more like 5th Ave, I"m sure they were the 5th Ave. 2200's. The 4509's as I recall were really New York City Omnibus (a driver told me back then) hence the colors being different. Sometime in the 50's NYCO was taken over by 5th Ave; then maybe l958 (approx) 5th Ave. took over Surface . I was a bit mistaken on the transfer of Manhattan busses to the Bronx, because it happened a couple, three years before the city takeover of all those lines [that became MABSTOA].Which if memory serves me right was l962. There may have been other shifts in the fleet that I overlooked. Looking up a roster I have there were also some 4507's. We had quite akaleidoscope of colors back then didn't we!
Can anyone explain what is going on with regard to 8th Avenue bus routes. The route used to be the M10 and it used to terminate up in Harlem, around 145th Street I think. In the past couple months I've seen only M20s on 8th Avenue with destination signs reading "Lincoln Center." Then, last night I saw a bus marked "M10 59th Street." What's happening here?
Also, does anyone know when the M23 is going to get the artics which some have said are coming?
The M10 was deemed too long and was split into two routes. The M10 runs from Harlem to Penn Station. The new M20 runs from Battery Park City to Lincoln Center. I don't know how to explain the 59th Street sign you saw.
Fairly simple-short turn.
-Hank
Are there any short turns that do this?
Do they have any M20s that only run uptown of Abingdon Square like some M10s did?
Relax Eric C-49 Artics Buses going to be on M23 soon but West Side didn't have enough Artics Buses. West Side getting 28 artics buses from kingsbridge depot & 25 brand new artics total 53 artics plus 59 from west side depot total 112 artics by the end of maybe june or july.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
PS: New 100th St Depot already have the beams up & im going to take some pictures tomorrow afternoon,
"PS: New 100th St Depot already have the beams up & im going to take some pictures tomorrow afternoon"
Good thing the TA told those NIMBYs to DROP DEAD.
More than likely, the M10 you saw was signed:
M10 HARLEM
M10 159 ST
M10 via 8 AV
The M10 still makes a seemingly dangerous U-turn at 159th Street, next to the Polo Grounds Houses.
Last week, a discussion about the paint on the new 40 foot Ride-On buses was held. Here is the answer. I saw a 40 foot bus on the 1 yesterday while sitting on a T2 Ride-On at Friendship Heights. As the 1 pulled out, it curves so it runs paralell to the T2 and then cuts in front of it since we both left at the same time. The paint scheme is the same as on a 30 footer EXCEPT there is a large white space at the back of the bus.
Hmmm... a large white space, you say? I guess that's what you get when you put a 30-foot paint scheme on a 40-FOOT BUS!
Yup! That's what I was saying. I suspected that Ride-On only has one size paint scheme that's currently applied to all of their buses, which looks fine on their other buses.
Wayne
http://www.silive.com/news/advance/0522rail21.html
-Hank
Perhaps NYCT eventually plans to run it's own express buses from S.I. directly to Jersey City for the increasing numbers of Staten Islanders working there. So until NYCT figures out what it wants to do (which could take forever) they are not going to help fill up NJT's trolley cars.
While I think TA Staten Island bus service to Hudson-Bergen Light Rail is a good idea, I would think a higher priority might be TA bus service over the Goethals Bridge to Newark Airport, a high employment area. Although I would think such service would be primarily for workers, travelers from S.I. using Newark Airport would benefit, especially during the upcoming cut in the number of parking spaces and the closing of the monorail for 3 or 4 months in the Fall.
Does anyone remember the old Mohawk Coach Lines that used to advertise as the Hudson River Scenic Route. I rode it many times between midtown Manhattan and Hyde Park, NY. It took forever (over 3 hours) to make the trip, but it was well worth it. It started at the Port Authority on 41st St. and went up Broadway all the way to 181st St (GWB Terminal). It then crossed the GWB and went up 9W to Sparkhill Orangeburg Road to Route 303 north where it rejoined 9W. It stopped at Bear Mountain and West Point. It then went over the Storm King Highway up to Newburgh where it got on a ferry boat across the river to Beacon. It then continued up Route 9D through Garrison & Wappingers Falls into Poughkeepsie and finally up Route 9 to the village of Hyde Park with a detour into the gronds of the FDR Estate en-route. Most of the time the route used old GMC SD 4515s bus occasionally you would be treated to an air conditioned brand new GMC PD #4104. The color of the buses was blue & yellow.
Didn't they have some kind of association with the defunct Manhattan Lines/Westwood Lines that operated out on RT 46 in Elmwood Park,(East Paterson)N.J.?
Peace,
ANDEE
I think you are right. I have a recollection that the common denominator was Casser Tours, and all of these bus lines were Casser companies.
The companies that were part of the Casser empire were, Manhattan Transit Lines, Westwood Transportation Co. Inc., Mohawk Coach Lines, Lincoln Transit Lines, Crossroads Sightseeing Corp., Casser Tours Inc. Travelcade Tours Inc. Casser Ski Trails Inc. and Consolidated Terminal & Travel Bureau. The companies were started by Benjamin Casser and later inherited by his 2 sons, Joe & Jerome Casser. They went out of business under the management of Joe's son in law, Bill Grossman.
.....I am sorry i missed this.......did they charge for admission.......... who won ??
Me and gmrtic attended the roadeo with his NYCTA 5285 and for all the 15 minutes we spent there looking at the drooling fans we headed out to meet a driver friend who did not make the roadeo due to work schedules.
The roadeo consisted of about 5 of LACMTAs 5000-5223 seres New Flyer c40's and instuction busses 330 which is a 1963 TDH 5303 last fishbowl still owned by MTA built as 5090 and GMC RTS 04 # 21-0350 originally 8447 which is a mobile dispatch center.
Allegedly Division 7 boycotted the roadeo.
It was no big wup.
M1 (The M1 and only)
..........probably a small crowd too....!!!!!!..?.......will there be one next year ??
This Monday morning, I spotted a Nova Low-Floor Bus parked at a gas station, headed southbound on Route 17 just below where it splits off from I-287 in Mahwah, NJ. It was in MATA colors (I believe this is the Memphis, Tenn., operator) and had fleet #849. Doesn't seem like NJ would be on the direct route between Montreal and Memphis, but suspect that's where it was headed to/from.
According to NovaBus the LFS's bound for the U.S. properties are final assembled in Schenectady, NY where the Classics used to be final assembled starting in 1991 when under the MCI ownership. These units have a TMCI builders plater. The CT Transit Classics have these plates and this was the first time I have seen a Classic with a TMCI insignia on the inside. To get back to the main topic the unit you saw may have been coming from Schenectady.
Peace
DaShawn
Does anyone have a list of buses that came from WMATA to NYCTA?
An old Motor Coach Age had them listed, I may have it around here somewhere under the rubble in the hobby room.
I wanted to find out if DC Transit/WMATA bus #6342 was in service for New York City.
I used to ride them quite often on Amsterdam and 54th St depot routes, but I don't recall seeing any 6300 series buses. I do remember riding lots of 6400,6500 & 6600 series (TDH-5304) and 1300 series (TDH-5301).
Wayne
There were a few 45 passenger buses in service too. I foget the numbers; these may have been the 6300's. I need to revist my slides.
Joe C
Yeah, I do remember seeing a few 35 foor TDH-4516's. Some were at 54th Street and I once saw one on a Staten Island Express route. I think Amsterdam had all 40-footers.
There were also some new look Flxible WMATA buses on Staten Island.
Wayne
There were a few 45 passenger buses in service too. I forget the numbers; these may have been the 6300's. I need to revist my slides.
Joe C
If you could do that for me, I would appreciate it. I just want all the info I can get on this bus as it is currently being restored to the original DC Transit scheme. I know that the Riverside Transit Agency (ca) got 6 ex WMATA/DCT buses in the early 80's but dont know the other wmata numbers. 6342 was bus 162 for Riverside Transit, I bought it from a junk yard and repainted it as NYCTA 3907 for the local filming of NYPD Blue, New York Undercover and Brooklyn South. That bus has appeared in alot of NY area shoots but it is time for restoration. If anyone has any suggestions or insight as to what these babys were like when new at DCT, let me know. I am open to all suggestions
According to the MBS listing for WMATA buses to New York City, 6342 was never shipped to the Big Apple.
Buses in the 6400, 6500, 6700, and 6800 arrived in New York.
Only 6359 and 6363, from the 6300 series, operated in New York City.
#6359... GM TDH 5304 serial # 239 built 1963
MaBSTOA #1804 based at Amsterdam
#6363... GM TDH 5304 serial #243 built 1963
MaBSTOA #1804 based at Amsterdam
According to the MBS listing for WMATA buses to New York City, 6342 was never shipped to the Big Apple.
Buses in the 6400, 6500, 6700, and 6800 arrived in New York.
Only 6359 and 6363, from the 6300 series, operated in New York City.
#6359... GM TDH 5304 serial # 239 built 1963
MaBSTOA #1804 based at Amsterdam
#6363... GM TDH 5304 serial #243 built 1963
MaBSTOA #1809 based at Amsterdam
WMATA 6342 was in California before any of the other WMATA buses went to NYCTA.
Thanks for the info. I was just curious. I remember how much the RTA drivers hated those WMATA fishbowls. They had front door interlock and also if you open the emergency door enough to make the light come one, the interlock came on also. I remember the feuds with Julie Dunn over not stopping at Montgomery and Wells and I would just open the edoor handle, wait for the bus to stop and then just push the rear doors. Any info on where the other 5 went?
Sorry, I dunno where the others went.
Never really noticed the front door interlock -- maybe it was not connected when I drove for RTA, and then they reconnected it. The worst one was 159. It showed up about a month after the others; someone mentioned the tranny wentout somewhere in Alabama on the way out from NIMCO. 157 and 162 were good tight buses; 160, wasn't that the one that never turned a wheel in revenue service -- lived int he shop as a parts source?
TOUR BUS KILLS PEDESTRIAN
It wasn't the bus' fault, nor was it the direct fault of the bus owner; for that matter, it may be that the guy who was hit didn't look before going. In any case, the turn the driver was making was illegal at that location, and thus is automatically at fault. It bothers me that the driver was improperly licensed (he had a class B license, but no 'P' endorsement), and that you can blame the bus company for. You can't blame an accident such as this on the bus, or entirely on the tour company, although they are partially to blame for letting an unqualified driver behind the wheel.
And did you SEE those politicians FLOCK to the area?
-Hank
According to the report I heard on CBS radio a short while ago, the tour company has a huge number of citations from the City for various infractions. It looks like the unfortunate accident will be the catalyst that allows the City to shut them down.
You know, guys, we can speculate forever on this. But remember we are dealing with politicians, the media and very picky Manhattan people.
If they had their ways, ALL the tour bus operators (double deck) would be out. Almost from the start they did nothing but complain about buses on their precious street, people looking into 2nd floor windows. Give me a break, already. And, they've already shut down one
former operator, Manhattan DD tours, I believe. That still leaves Grey Line, NY DD Tours, Taxi DD tours ( one bus only), plus one other whose name I'll recall the second after I post this.
These companies have added a bit of flavor to the bus scene here in NY and other cities. I will miss them if they are all forced to shut.
I'm no expert on the types but we can plainly see there are different models, and paint schemes, further adding to it.
I wouldn't be too hasty to rush to judge Apple Tours based on the reports. If that is all we could go on, Flxible would not have built another bus.
Joe Caronetti
Joe,
I work down here in Manhattan every single day. This company is a menace and should have been shut down years ago. They run some of the worst looking crap I have ever seen. Run red lights constantly. Ignore traffic regs., etc, etc,. Sorry, but whatever problems Manhattan residents may have, they are right on this one. This operation gives busses a bad name.
Peace,
ANDEE
Case in point, I just this minute came back from the store and saw one of these SOBs make an illegal right from 7th ave onto w 34th st. That corner is clearly posted NO TURNS 8AM - 8PM. Too bad there wasn't a cop around.
Peace,
ANDEE
IIRC, that corner is marked No Turns 8am-8pm EXCEPT BUSES. The same situation at 5th and 42nd, but no one seems to write any tickets. I actually took a picture of a TED agent ASLEEP in her Chevy Metro blocking the bus lane on 42nd St.
-Hank
The EXCEPT BUSES proviso is only when you are travelling WB on 34th not SB on 7th. They do in fact write many tickets at this location anyway.
Peace,
ANDEE
Judging from the stories on the radio this a.m. a witch hunt is in effect. The jackals are entering for the kill. Are the police just giving out summonses to these drivers for the Hell of it? Remember, they are STILL in operation; the company was not YET shutdown. IF the drivers qualify, a big IF here, and the buses are qualified to run, nobody can stop them, legally. I'd love to know all the details.
Joe C.
Maybe what they need is a change in management. If you recall, not too long ago, NYCTA/ MABSTOA also ran some pretty deplorable "crap".
When David Gunn came along he made some fantastic changes, although we didn't always agree with him. The system today looks great.
I'd opt for that route instead because I feel it will be a matter of time before they all fall. Maybe not so much Grey Line as they are a well established company, all over the country.
The media was also looking at city bus drivers too. Poor performance is not relegated to just the double deck operators.
Everyone has the right to make a "go" of it, provided they stick to the laws. I agree. They should be given the opportunity to shape up.
All the best
Joe
you guys are forgetting a few things here. I dont live there but this is what I think. Any company is only as good as the people they employ. You employ a bunch rejects from other companys in driving, maintenence and management... you get what you pay for. I am sure things are tight for the private sector right now, but that is no reason to put your business in a situation like this. LESSON LEARNED>>>>>>>>> ONE BAD APPLE JUST MAY SPOIL THE ENTIRE BASKET! Before everyone makes a snap judgement..... The company is at fault for hiring this guy. If he didnt have a passenger endorsement then maybe the company should have put him on light duty or sent him to go get it. here in california we get "pull notices" every month on our drivers. If something happens with your commercial license or you have some attachments that are out of date, the DMV WILL notify you, and the transit agency before something like this is allowed to happen.
That is my point. I'm not for shutting the operation down unless changes, big changes, are made. And a shutdown need not be permanent. Once again I point to the conditions that once existed with the city fleet.
You don't say where in California you live but I get to the coast at least once each year. MUNI has had several problems over the last few years; drivers reportedly with guns, accidents, the whole nine yards. It happens, yet the operations continue.
Metro Apple has been a thorn in the communities' side for years. It just had to happen. I wonder what the outcome would have been if a city transit bus or a Grey Line Double Decker been involved. Personally, if I were operating one of the other double deck services in NY, I'd be damn careful now; somebody's watching!
Joe Caronetti
It just occured to me, that you don't NEED a passenger endorsement to drive an EMPTY bus. There has been, AFAIK, no mention of passengers on the bus at the time of the accident. If the driver was taking the OOS bus to the garage/GMF, then it's perfectly legal for him to drive it.
-Hank
Thanks Hank. Now it begins to make a bit more sense. The "jump on the bandwagon" mentality that the politicians & media proagate is sickening.
Joe Caronetti
The bus was not empty there was a tour guide in it. Granted, A technicality. But, the bus wasn't empty.
Peace,
ANDEE
A tour guide is an employee of the company, and not technically a 'person at liability risk', as the lawyers would say. Not an issue.
-Hank
That's something else:
The media and the politicians are constantly harping on how NYAT has gotten x number of violations. But they don't specify! Parking, moving, environmental, WHAT?
Fedex in one day recieves over 1000 summonses throughout the city, the majority of them for parking. But does the statement that they recieve that many summonses mean that they're a danger to others? NO! Again, it's the same situation you have when people complain about rude city bus drivers: the bad apple becomes the representative for the group, and that's the word that everyone repeats.
-Hank
I'm not for shutting the company down, but clearly the management needs a major shake up. That's a good point Hank brought up. If there are no passengers, then a passenger endorsement would not apply. Something I'm sure Apple will argue in court. But let's not forget something. A person was killed because the operator was careless. That's the bottom line. Because maybe he was driving legally after all does not mean it was allright to make an illegal right turn. This all goes back to management. If they had stronger disciplinary procedures, I'm sure the operator would have thought twice before doing what he did wrong. So to totally restructure this company would be a great idea. Let's eliminate all the bad apples from Red Apple. Get those bad buses replaced, if possible and start making truthful reports. But to totally stop those red double decker beauties from driving the streets of NYC would be a loss to everybody just like the death of the drive-in movie theater. BIG AL
About the bad buses, either apple or gray line dd's are getting new dd neoplans, so they've already started. And these have LEFT-SIDE driver's seats.
They are completely to blame for having an unqualified driver behind the wheel. If the company had it's act together that driver would not have have been behind the wheel and the accident may not have happened. That company should have been shut down years ago.
Peace,
ANDEE
Yesterday, I noticed on some QSC Orions that it looks a bit different. Also heard that destination signs must be programmed through a code in the farebox. I noticed the new signs on 438 and 580. I'm sure that they're others out there at QS that have this. Another note is that a lot of signs weren't working: 444, 471, 493, 509 just to name a few. QSC doesn't need their signs changed, I believe that the WMATA Orions at GBL need those signs more.
MTAKing823
I noticed #472 on the Q65 on Friday. The signs looked like this:
Front:
Side:
Strange...
I also saw #406 on the Long Island Expressway, going through the park. Its front and side signs said "NOT IN SERVICE" but the rear sign said "QM-2". That's the exact reading, with the hyphen. That must have been the only bus I've seen do that since the 1979 RTS buses that came to QS from Westchester (where I saw readings like "Q-66"). They hyphenate the route, and the route looks like it could be read as "Q negative 66" or "QM negative 2". No other bus does that, but why these?
Was probally done on purpose .... it does make the # stand out better.
I've found out that we asked for a lot of wording changes ... as long as we were going to have to make some changes anyway.
We're also impressed that you customers are actually reading the sign every morning !
Mr t__:^)
Well, that makes one...
I was on an RTS bus on the Q25QC (my name for the Q25 to Queens College) The bus had no side sign, and the front sign wasn't working. Few people got on. The driver had to tell people when the bus did stop to pick up people that it was a Queens College bus. Why couldn't they do what some other companies do when they have to send a bus whose sign isn't working into service, put a sign in the front window that says "Q25-Queens College"? I thought of doing it, but I didn't have tape or a marker that would write the letters dark enough.
They do do it some/most times ... I've seen the signs discarded when they return.
Mr t__:^)
[wording changes]
A couple of mistakes
Should be
Should be:
And there are some, like the Q104 one above, that have letters falling off the sign. Here's an example:
Here's a sign that would be used in case Queens Surface ever plans to rename the Bronx-only counterpart of the QBX1 to BX60.
And to show off a little more, here's another sign.
Thanks for the input, I'll pass it on to our maint. dept.
They may already be aware, and then they may not, but thanks just the same.
Mr t__:^)
Nothing special, just a little TAIL waging the dog at this depot, i.e. we requested a change on six "Destination Sign Codes". The farebox & sign aren't connected here, but the codes need to be the same (KISS system). That ment that we had to get the TA guys in the back room to modify the mainframe (dog) so our fareboxes (tail) could wag.
BTW, all relate to express lines, except #654 on the Q65. There may also be changes in the wording of the unchanged codes ... I'll have to ask our transportation dept.
Mr t__:^)
............last sunday there was supposed to be this ""BUS RODEO"" nothing in the monday morning papers about
this here in southern californias 3 three papers .....!!! well ??? a report somewhere else ??.............__________________
testing......!!!
probably since the roadeo was on a SATURDAY you did nt see it n the onday papers/
Spotted this morning:
D60 1020 being flat-towed behind an NYPD heavy-duty truck with 'Surface Maintainence' painted on the boom, along 42nd St between 5th and 6th. Former Surface Maintainence tow trucks are in regular use by the NYPD. I've seen at least 2, they carry NYPD TCD decals, but remain in NYCT paint otherwise. No visible NYCT markings.
-Hank
I just saw 857 and 917 enter JG. I was told that two more are coming in today. This means that all 4600's, 4700's and 4800's are leaving JG. I will keep you posted with new bus up dated.
857 was at Atlantic Diesel in Long Island last week. I had a post on this. I also had seen 914 there also. Today I had seen another two LF CNG's there but couldn't get their numbers. If I can catch any #'s I will post them here.
very strange method of numbering new buses going from 857 to 914. where are 858-913?
They are coming! But New Flyer is very known for not sending buses in numerical order! The new New Flyer Galaxy D60HF Articulated are not coming in numerical order either!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Two more are in 861 ans 864.
New Flyer LF CNG's 860 and 862 are now at Atlantic Diesel in Long Island.
At JG are 857, 861, 864 and 917. So they are coming in. This would mean the end for the 1987 and most of the 1993 RTS's. The 46-4700's are to go to ENY and FLA while some of the 8500's are slated for UP.
JG are keeping all the 8500's
Are they keeping 5230-5249 as well?????
B35#5240Mike
Yes we are keeping all the 5200's and 8500's, I was told this by one of the Superatenend at Jackie Gleason.
Triboro Coach #1183, 3064, and 2050 on the Q39.
Other Subway-related stuff.
All available at TRANSIT PICTURES 8.
Directions:
• Click here.
• Once you get to the main page, take the Express Train to Transfer Point.
• Take the Court Street Shuttle to Transit Pictures 8.
I have no pictures in this to whet your desire to see what these things look like.
Well I overheard a conversation between a driver and passenger on the bus today about the poor performance of LI Bus.
The passenger said he waited for a bus that never showed, and that lately he has had alot of buses that are very late or never show.
According to what I heard, the driver said "the buses have been breaking down like crazy". He said they are having a lot of problems with their Orion CNG's, they are running out of gas, stalling out, and breaking down when it gets hot.
So I told him how much better the QSC buses are, and he said they are nice and much better because they use Detroit Diesel CNG engines.
He said the Cummins L10G being used in LI Bus CNG Orions is a "piece of garbage".
The driver requests diesel Orions for his runs because they don't break down nearly as often as the CNG's.
He said they don't even make the engine LI Bus CNG Orions use anymore.
Also the Orion CNG's have more trouble with hills than the diesels.
Well with today's conversation, my feelings about LI Bus are confirmed. There is a major problem with the bus fleet, and it is severely impacting timeliness and reliability.
The question is, with the whole summer ahead of us how will the Orion CNG's hold up?
When and if will the engines on them be replaced with the more reliable DD ones?
One thing's for sure, if I were a LI Bus driver I'd request the diesels too. No wonder why it seems the senior drivers always get the diesel Orions.
Why don't Long Island MTA borrowed oldest NYCT Buses that kept int the storage? So they won't have to breakdown.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Before recent events in Nassau County, i.e. County Exec., Tom Gullotta deciding not to fund LI Bus, they were proud of the independance from the TA ... now they'll end up being the Far East Division ... that may not be best for Nassau customers.
Mr t__:^)
[He said they are having a lot of problems with their Orion CNG's, they are running out of gas, stalling out, and breaking down when it gets hot. So I told him how much better the QSC buses are, and he said they are nice and much better because they use Detroit Diesel CNG engines.]
I don'y think it's totally the engine ....
- CNGs don't have a gas guage so you can't leave them running for an extended time and expect the tanks to still be full. Also you need to top the tanks of every night to be on the safe side, BUT LI Bus has a big high speed filling station, so that shouldn't be a problem for them.
- We've had a couple of problems with "hot" engines. Orion took them away to see what was causing it.
- CNGs are more labor intensive then diesels, but we all know that's one of the trade offs for a cleaner environment !
- When I was given a 50 cent tour of their Garden City shop, it looks clean, neat and otherwise well organized. Maybe there's some kind of problem between management & labor ?
Mr t__:^)
The Cummins L-10G is notorious for problems. This is partly why LACMTA's 10 Flxible MetroB CNG fleet is non-exisitant. These units in particular sat inoperative for 6 months if not more unitl Cummins replaced their engines due to surging problems and other malfunctions. NJT's Flxible MetroC CNG fleet was all Cummins L-10G powered and they were out of service frequently and now after being repowered by Detroit Diesel Series 60G units they are performing quite well. Alot of 1st generation mass production CNG buses started out with the Cummins L-10G because it was the first on the market but most systems had alot of problems like the two I mentioned above. When more systems started to buy CNG buses the DD Series 50G was available and has been a much better performer. Cummins does not make the L-10G any longer and has other engines in it's lineup that operate on CNG like the B 5.9G, C 8.3G, and I think the M11G also, but not sure. The NYCDOT's Orion V CNG demonstator unit Command 4932 was L-10G powered and has since been repowered with a DD Series 50G like all of the other units purchased thus far. So I think NYCDOT knows the deal also. I hope LIBUS does something soon.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Thanks for the detail ... I didn't know all of that. Will have to ask my maint. friend, he probally does.
BTW, The couple of John Deer's haven't arrived yet.
Mr t__:^)
I saw Long Island Bus #520 OOS on Kissena Boulevard and Cherry Avenue, going south on Kissena. It was about 3:30 PM the other day when I saw it. Do OOS Long Island Buses use Kissena to get to/from Flushing and a LIB depot?
does anyone have a copy of the book on mack buses?
how is it?
Yes.
CHeck Amazon.com
Steve
The book is out. The B&W pictures are great!!. Love that picture of Ave B and E Broadway 304 at the plant.
HeyPaul,
The address for ICONOGRAFIX is:
P.O.Box 446
Hudson, Wi. 54016
Price is worth it at $29.95
I'd suggest getting it thru them so they can guage the amount of interest generated by this type of book, as did the GM Fishbowl book.
Give them the incentive to do more.
Joe C
Does it give Order and delivery listings to the carriers,,etc??
Steve
No production list. It is a collection of photos by the plant photographer, perhaps using a large format camera. Hardly any street photos, plenty of "builder's photo"
I got my copy a couple weeks ago. Good B&W pictures of buses when brand new. Sorry that the only color picture is on the cover. No pictures of buses in service. Lots of pictures were pre-WWII. I hope there will be a part II which will emphasize the buses of the late 40s and 50s and show buses in service.
This morning, I saw WMATA 9343 at Mass Avenue and Westbard Avenue waiting to start the 7:30 AM D5 trip to Farragut Square. My question is, what division is this bus running out of? It was unveiled at Northern and moved around for about 11 months so it could be on most of the routes. The last time I saw it since the anniversary special ended was at Union Station but I'm not sure what route it was on. Does anyone know where this bus's "home" is?
Thanks, in advance.
Before 9343 became the Silver bus, it used to be housed in the Bladensburg lot. I remember when they unveiled it, it was to go to all the routes in the are. I used to see it on the c4 once in a while and then I saw it on one of the other Montgomery runs. Not sure where its actual home base is now. It may be in one division for good since the promotion to ride it for a quarter is probably over. The D5 comes out of Western I think.
I've seen it most recently on the D5 also. It got around although I never saw it in VA.
Wayne
Yeah, I never personally saw it in VA either, although I remember a pamphlet had come out when they had the special promotion and it listed the different routes that it would be serving for that specific week. I think the only routes not on that list if I'm not mistaking were the Southern and Landover division routes. Don't know if that was some kind of discriminatory reason or just coincidence.
It did go to Virginia. The schedules were posted every few months or so and it hit all the routes (I think).
I have three picture of Flxible #7535, #7562 & #7754 & i need those information so i can put it on my NYCTransiTrans Site. Any body have the information??? Just post it here or email me thank you
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Flxible #7535, #7562,& #7754 are 1975 Flxible Model 53102-6-1 "New Look"
I hope this helps!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
If I remember correctly, the 7500 and 7600's were TA buses, 7700's on up were Mabstoa buses.
This is true, but they all were 1975 Model 53102-6-1 New Looks!!!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
All exact information. Just to add the full roster if needed:
7500-7659 NYCTA
7700-7937 MaBSTOA
These were later mixed among TA/OA.
Too bad you don't have a picture of 7753. This was the only Flxible with wings NYC had. I'd like to see what that looked like. BTW, these were all set up for wings but were never installed.
I guess that explains why the interior lights were so low down on the sides with the elimination of the small oval windows (I forgot their name)over the regular windows. I remember Jamaica depot had the 7600 series. My favorites were the 9000 series. I always liked those small reading lights over the first few R/S seats. Jamaica used to have 9090-9099. Does anyone have a picture of those old 9000's series Flxibles? I don't believe Transit kept one as a musuem bus. They always rode alot smoother than the other new looks of that time. BIG AL
Pictures by Glenn Rowe, donated to transitalk:
Hope this quenches your royal Flxible thirst!!!
"Obey your thirst, Drink Flx"
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Great pictures, R142. I did a print of those babies. Interesting though, picture of 9297 has a Jamaica depot logo on it, but I do not remember that bus running at Jamaica depot. Only 9090-9099 which I used to ride in High School. Could that bus have been a soft seater? I don't know if they had Express buses back in the 70's & 80's. Also, do you have any interior shots of the 9000's? Otherwise, excellent job. You really made my day. BIG AL
Just a few more questions. Do you know when and where those pictures were taken? The first one next to the Orion can't be that old. Also, how many 9000's were there all together like those pictured? Finally, do you know of any that are still in existance and if so, where? The last time I saw one was in the scrap yard at Walnut depot. Ironically, it was 9094, one of the buses I used to ride. It had a Manhattanville logo on it. I was just hired in Aug. 94 and was in training and the last of the Flxibles had just gone off the rode. I was very disappointed that I never got a chance to drive one. BIG AL
there were no 9000 series express buses. some on staten island did have a type of padded passenger seat. these were in the 9100 series. these buses had some of the hardest steering known to man and driver literally had to stand up to make a right turn with a full load on the bus. they are not missed by operators.
That Orion V was the demo that was in NYC around 1991/92.
Wayne
Flxible #9297 was originally assinged to Kingsbridge depot (9285-9299). It was a regular local bus (hard seats). Some of these ex-KB buses went to ENY after operating at 2 other MABSTOA depots.
Wayne
Wayne do u have a list of Flxible's Bus Roster assingment back in the late 70s & early 80s??? I remember Flxible 92xx to 924x aasingment at Old 100th Depot & my father love driving Flxible buses & there is only one problem that he didn't like it the Right Mirror. It hard to see the back of the bus.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
No - I don't have a list. I just remember those at many MABSTOA especially the Bronx depots.
Coliseum:
4664-4720
7853-7877
9160-9184
West Farms
4601-4663
7885-7917
9185-9204
Kingsbridge
7833-7852
9285-9299
Amsterdam
7918-7937
9300-9309
Hudson had the remaining MABSTOA 1969/70 Flxibles (4721-4727), but I don't remember exactly how the rest of the other new look Flxibles were distributed.
Wayne
I definately do not what flexibles operated out of what garage, but I remember the 5000 series on routes Q44, B41, B46; and the early 4000s (ie: 4001, 4101, 4201) on route B25, B26, B38.
Maybe someone can help with more information.
Fresh Pond originally had 4100-4152. Later 4153-4162 were added. Also a mixed amount of 4000's and upper 4100's were used. I never saw 4200-4202 running out of FP.
East New York originally had 4153-4202. They also ran 5600's prior to the 4100's.
Queens Village, Jamaica and Flushing ran 5600's. Flushing also ran 5700's.
These were some of the early flxibles that ran from some of the depots.
Thank you very much. This information is greatly appreciated.
Just curious. You mentioned that Jamaica had 5600's series Flxibles. Were these the one's with the big rear window and no a/c or the one's with a/c with the doofy looking emergency lights on the front? The reason I ask is that Jamaica never had the Flxibles with no a/c. And the one's with the doofy lights they only ran for about 1 year. I remember they got them right as they were being retired. Jamaica was never that big on Flxibles period. They never had the low 7000 series (year 1973)and only about 20-25 7600 series and 10 9000 series(9090-9099), not counting the picture of 9297 which I believe was an express bus at the time since I would remember it running on the local routes. BIG AL
I dunno if this is gonna help, but I have photographs of some 5600-series Flxibles (no a/c) on the north side of the LIRR Jamaica station on the Q43, taken in 1979-1980. One of them was still in its original green paint. None had rollsigns, just cardboard signs in the windshields; I assume they wer working the Q43 on a temporary basis or were just transferred there and signs hadn't yet been installed.
The 5600/5700's were the 1965 models w/o AC and large rear windows. I'm not 100% sure about Jamaica but I am pretty certain that they did run those. The pictures that Steve mentioned of the Q43 during 1979-1980 were running from Queens Village at that time. Perhaps the 5600's from ENY went to Jamaica for awhile prior to the opening of QV. The TA's 4000-4200's and OA's 46/4700's had AC and the emergency flasher lights.
After I logged off from my last post (and banged my head against the wall a few times) it all came back to me. From 1977-1984 I rode the Q4 & Q17A buses every day going to H.S. & College. Since one was a Jam bus & the other a Q.V. bus I know exactly what they had. Jamaica definitely did not have any 5600/5700 Flxibles. They did have the GMC's with the foward facing seats in the rear (no a/c), the 4300 series GMC's with perimeter seating (with a/c), 7600 & 9000 series Flxibles. Later on, around 1982 I think, they got in a few 4000 series Flxibles and a few 6000 series GMC's, but they did not stay for very long. Q.V. was more diversified. They had everything except the 4000 series Flxibles & 6000's GMC's. Then I believe Q.V. received some 6000's also when Jamaica received theirs. I don't know about Flushing but I remember everything right up to when the Advance Design Buses came in. BIG AL
From 1979-1983 I rode the Q5A and the Q43 to school and I can back up what BIGAL said about the 1965 Flxibles. If they ran out of Jamaica, it had to be prior to the opening of QV, because they were prominent in QV in the late '70's. The 5600/5700's were used mostly on school trips at that time. During the late 70's Jamaica and QV had their share of 1962-1963 TDH-5301 and 5303's and 1970 T6H-5305A's (4342-4391 at JAM, 4392-4455 at QV). QV had 1973 Flxibles 7155-7174, while JAM had no 1973's. JAM had 1975 Flxibles 7600-7619, and QV ran 7635-7644. The 9000's were JAM: 9090-9099 and QV: 9100-9109. JAM would later receive 9280-9300 from Brooklyn in the early 1990's, but they were local buses not expresses.
Around 1981-82 JAM received 6200-6328 from FLU, UP and CAS and sent their 4300's, 7600's and 9000's to QV. To my knowledge, JAM ran just one of the 1969 Flxibles and that was bus 4040. I distinctly remember that bus with peeling paint on the roof and a very loud "vacuum"-type sound. Also it did not have JAM a roll sign, it had a FA (Fifth Avenue, now Jackie Gleason) sign for a long time. Then came the Grummans with PA83-PA85, 356-363 at JAM and PA86-PA90, 364-380 at QV. The RTS's: JAM--1273-1275, 1535-1544; QV--1276-1282, 1545-1559. I hope that helps.
Yes, Q5Merrick, you hit the nail on the head. I agree with you 99%. You wrote the most accurate roster for Jam & Q.V. depots I have seen yet concerning the new look buses. The bus #4040 rings a bell also. The only thing I differ on is that Jamaica had several 1969 Flxibles but I'm sure no more than 5 or 6. I definitely saw at least 2 or 3 at the same time but on different routes. Also, I don't think they sent 9090-9099 to Q.V. because when they left, I looked high & low for those buses and never saw them again. I would have seen them on a Q.V. route. When I was hired in 1994 I finally saw 9094 junked in the back of Walnut depot with a Manhattanville sticker on it. BTW, let me guess, did you go to Van Buren H.S.? I'm sure we rode these buses at the same time however I went to Cardozo H.S. from 1977-1981 then Queensborough Community College from 1981- early 1984. BIG AL
I remember disticntly 5600s for a time in Flushing. I remember one breaking down by my house when i was like 5 years old. I think it was 5627 or something like that and it was in the newer paint at the time, all white top with a purplish-blue line in the middle.
I was fascinated watching them work on it.
i also remember most of these buses having really dark taillights, perhaps they were just covered with alot of grime on the inside of the lens,
And i remember a lot of 7100s in Flushing as well.
I remember sometime in the middle to late '70's I was riding a 7600 down Merrick blvd which was in extremely poor condition, as usual, when we hit a bump so big, it broke the front right air bag and the front of the bus was just laying on the ground. We had to off load and get on another bus with it laying in the middle of the street. What I find odd is that when this first happened, I never would have believed that I would still remember all this after 20 years. What's even more stranger is nobody would ever convince me that I would remember the number. That bus was 7615. BIG AL
Front right air bag?
Since when do/did buses have air bags?
We, at the dept of buses, call the units that hold up the four corners of the suspension air bags. I hope you were not thinking of a different type of air bag. Anyway, one day a few years ago, a maintainence worker in Fresh Pond depot tried to create overtime by damaging the buses.He climbed under one with a knife and slit one of the bags. But the air came out so fast, the corner of the bus fell on him and he was crushed to death. His wife then had to sue the T.A. because natually they did not want to pay benifits because the knife was laying next to his body and they concluded that he was sabotauging the buses. I don't know how the court fight turned out, but that is what I mean about the air bags. BIG AL
Thanks for correcting me also. I thought about it and I can't seem to recall any 5600's running out of Jamaica. That Jamaica and QV roster is very acurate. I remember all those. And those 4000's did have that vacuum sound.
BTW, I also went to QCC from 76-80 and again from 81-83.I used to ride the Q44A and the Q27 then later rode the B53 and the Q17A.
The 1st TA order of non-A/C Flxible new looks went to Flatbush (5001-5165). When the 2nd order came in, 5601-5700 went to East New York and 5701-5790 went to Jamaica. At this time, there was no Queens Village. I don't remember when the 5700's left Jamaica, but I'm sure they ran there for at least a few years. The next new buses Jamaica got after the 5700's were about 40 of the 8000 series batwing buses.
At this website under NYC Buses, in Joe Testagroses photos, go to Queens photos and look for Bee Line 668(pre-MSBA) taken back in the early 70's. Just behind this bus is a TA 5700 bus on Merrick Blvd. I assumed it was a Flushing bus but with Sid's information, this was one of Jamaica's Flx's. About those winged 8000 series buses, which were at Flushing and which were at Jamaica? I know Flushing had the lower 8000's that were later transfered to FP in 1971.
I do recollect that when the TA buses came in new, 8081-8122 went to Flatbush and 8123-8202 went to 126th Street. I'm a little less sure on the Jamaica/Flushing split, but I believe 8001-8040 went to Jamaica and 8041-8080 went to Flusing. It's possible that I've got those 40 buses reversed, so don't hold me to it!
I just noticed Joe Testagrose's photo on this site of #8007 out of Flushing depot in 1971, so I suspect I did have things reversed: 8001-8040 must have gone to Flushing and 8041-8080 to Jamaica.
That picture of 8007 was during the time of the tranfers when Flushing and Jamaica recieved the 43/4400's. FP received 8001-8040 from Flushing and Crosstown recieved 8041-8080 from Jamaica. Somehow I remember riding 8007 one day when she just gave up on Jamaica Ave. at Queens Blvd.
Thanks again for the info.
The first 2 to arrive at Crosstown were 8041 & 8044 in 1970. 8053 arrived shortly thereafter. It took the first pair a few weeks to enter service so as to qualify the drivers. They were the first a/c buses assigned to Crosstown. The first one I rode was 8041 on a cold winter Sunday nite on the B48 out of Empire Blvd./Flatbush Ave. Ironically, 8041 was the last one to be retired out of that entire order around 1986. It eventually operated out of Flatbush without its wings. It got re-transfered to FP after that, but FP maintance forces retired 8041 before it ever made a trip. Yes, that bus lasted 20 years, but perhaps it didn't operated for 20 years. Perhaps someone knows if 8041 was stored at the Army Terminal and resurrected when the Grummans were ordered scrapped by Gunn.
When I said "re-transfered to FP": I may have mis-spoke. Since I grew up in Greenpoint, XTown was my "home depot", now Fresh Pond would be, not only since they received most ex-XTown routes, but also since I live near it. Frankly, I don't remember where that 8041-8080 group went when XTown closed. Most likely to Fresh Pond, but I don't remember.
8041 did make it to FP at one point with wings I believe. I have it on my B53 roster. Before XT transfered out their 8000's, 8031-8040 from FP went to XT. The rest of XT's 8000's probably got split up to different depots. FP did receive some of their's later on. Also, when FP took over XT's routes, FP's 8000's were tranfered out and it wasn't until about a year later when a mixed bunch of 8000/8100's returned.
I believe that about 23 of the TA's and/or OA's 8000 series new looks were rebuilt by Blitz and became 5000-5022 or thereabouts. If this is true, then some of them lasted beyond 1986. I suspect someone can confirm whether this is the case.
Absolutely correct. 23 of the 1966 TDH-5303 ex-"batwing" buses were rebuilt by Blitz in 1984-5, and were indeed renumbered 5000-5022. They ran into the early-mid 1990s, mostly, if not entirely, out of depots in Manhattan.
David
I think those Blitz TDH-5303-AC pretty much stayed at 100 Street depot until they were retired.
Wayne
During the Grumman crisis the 8000 series TDH-5303 were still very much in service. At MABSTOA I believe it was a bunch of earlier TDH-5303 that were dragged out of storage. I'm thinking it was buses from both the 6701-6900 and 6401-6700 groups.
Wayne
I'm not sure when, but I definately know that Jamaica swapped buses, because by the summer of 1983, the Jamaica Depot had the Flexible 7500s and the GMC 6200s and 6300s where opearting in Brooklyn (maybe Flatbush or Ulmer Park).
I distinctly remember the 7500s operating on the Jamaica routes during that HOT summer of 1983 because they seemed to be the only Flexibles with working air conditioning at that time.
>>>...elimination of the small oval windows (I forgot their name)over the regular windows.<<<
These were known as standee windows.
Peace,
ANDEE
An interesting note about the FLXIBLE new looks. When MABSTOA first started getting them my father was a chassis maintainer at West Farms. The drivers were constantly asking if they were going to move the location of the "Idiot Lights". Seems the drivers did not like their location compared to the GM new looks.
Peace,
ANDEE
What are idiot lights?
The indicator lights for directional signals, oil pressure, etc., on FLXIBLE new looks they were in a box on the left windshield pillar. On GM new looks they were on the dash. Drivers feared blocked visibility which is why they wanted them moved.
Peace,
ANDEE
Having driven Flxible "new look" type buses for many years, those "fears" of blocked vision by the small "idiot light" panel on the left windshield post were totally unfounded. That panel was totally out of the way.
How does a CNG engine operate? It is same as diesel with a high compression ratio?
Are most CNGs just modified diesels?
They do produce less power and torque?
They use a gas turbine. A fan blows air through a shaft, after the fan is a flame powered by the gas burning, it is fueled by the air, and produces pressure that blows a fan at the other end to spin. The second fan rotates the first fan.
Yes on all counts. No one has yet bothered to build a pure CNG engine. Turbines are too inefficient (turbines work best at high, constant speed, which is NOT an applicable to a city bus) and engineering-wise, it's a lot cheaper. You'd probably see a 10% increase in operating efficiency if a 'pure' CNG engine were built, not derived.
-Hank
Check out auction 3404692081. Its a great picture of a Mack and several GMC old looks.
Please note that I am not the seller or in any way connected with the seller.
It's too long, that's not an eBay auction number.
I just rechecked the number it is 3-4-0-4-6-2-0-8-1
Which routes run from which depots? Can anyone post the list?
Thanks, in advance.
Here is a rough estimate from what I've figured out from looking at the run blocks on the windshields of the buses.
Note: All Arlington and Royal routes come out of Four Mile Run on the weekends. And, occasionally, some Arlington routes come out of Four Mile Run during the week as well.
Montgomery: C2,4,7,8, J1,2,3,8,9, K6 (uses some Northern buses on AM/PM peak),L7,8,Q1,2,T2,Y7,8,9,Z's,14A,B,C,D,M
Bladensburg: B2,8,9,D1,2,3,4,6,8,G2,8,H's,R1,2,3,4,5,X1,2,8,80-86,90's
Southern: A's,M6,M11,M20,P's,U's,V's,W4,6,8,9
Northern: K8,S's,50's,60's,70's
Western:D5,E's,L1,2,M4,N's,30's,42 (splits time with Bladensburg)
Landover: A11,12,15,B21-25,29,C11-14,21-29,D12,F's,H11,12,14(may sometimes use southern as well),J11-15,K12,19,P12,13,17-19,S12,T15-18,87-89M
Arlington:1's,2's,3's,4's,14T,W,22's,24's,25's,38B
Royal:10A-E,11P,Y,some 17's and 18's,21's,28A-C,some 29's
Four Mile Run:7's,8's,9's,13's,16's, some 17's,18's,23A,C,26G,H,28's,29's
I hope this helps somewhat. Some of the routes aren't exact I'm sure, but this is pretty close. Like I said, a lot of the routes split time with different divisions for a run here and there for one reason or another.
I think the 98 and 99 comes out of Western. I saw 3717 or 3718 (not sure which) at Western a few months ago.
I think you're right since they serve the Woodley Park area, that would be the closest garage to it.
Does anyone undestand WMATA's route numbering scheme? I travel to the area regularly but I can never understand the profusion of alpha-numeric, numeric-alpha, and numeric-only route designations. Anyone able to make sense out of it?
Yes. In DC and Maryland, each line has a letter and then a number follows it. If the number is odd, it is a part time route, even is full time. For instance, L2 is the Conneticut Avenue Line that runs all the time. Other DC and MD designations are as follows:
E-Military Road
N-Massachusetts Avenue
L-Conneticut Avenue
T-River Road
J-Crosstown (East-West Highway)
H-Crosstown
S-16th Street
As for the numbers like 34, 30s are Pennsylvannia Avenue Line and 4 is the same as 2 in L2. The numbers are as follows:
30s-Wisconsin/Pennsylvannia Avenue
42-Mount Pleasant Line
50s-14th Street Line
60s-13th Street Line
70s-Georgia Avenue Line
80s-North Capitol Street Line
90s-U Street Line
In Virginia, it is the reverse. The number indicates the line, the letter is the same as the number. Routes are things like 1C, 20A, 38B.
Hope this helps.
I've always wished that WMATA could adapt some sort of universal route numbering system symilar to NYCT, but since it was formed out of several smaller bus companies, they sort of had to mesh the different route schemes together. For example, all DC based routes could begin with a D, all Md based routes M, and all Va based routes V. For routes that crossed into Md, Va or DC, the route could still be identified by its home base. For example, the 38B that goes from Arlington to DC could be Vx (whatever number WMATA decides to designate it as). Of course, its too late and there are too many bus routes to totally change it to something like that.
I know it sounds a bit farfetched, but it would still be easier than what is currently being used, especially since some lines with the same letter are in two completely different areas. For example, C2 operates mainly in Montgomery and Northern PG County, while C14 operates in SE DC and Southern PG county and out of two different divisions.
Could you please possibly post which routes are out of which division?
I have a posting from the middle of May that indicated a rough estimate of what routes came from what divisions. Hope it helps somewhat. Its hard to pinpoint all of them since some of the routes split divisions for a run here and there and on weekends.
Would it be safe to assume that "A" in A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, A46 stands for Anacostia?
Also, would you know what all of the letters (A thru Z) stand for?
I was always curious about this.
Thank you.
It might although I think most of the designations are random. For my fantasy transit system, it has a similar way of designating things.
W-Wisconsin Ave
M-Mass Ave
C-COnn Ave
and so on.
I think WMATA really does need to do something to make their routes correspond to the area in which the buses serve. The current route scheme means absolutely nothing if you look at it and is just as confusing to regular riders as it is to infrequent users or newcomers to the area. Your fantasy routes are similar to the system I was thinking by just using D for DC, M for MD and V for VA. At one time I read something where they were thinking of changing the routes to correspond to the main streets, such as 14th street line would be the number 14 and so on, but I haven't heard any more about it.
That would be mighty confusing. Even if the 52 became the 14A, it means you have a conflict with the SmartMover bus from Bethesda to Tysons Corner. Also, what do you do for the named streets (like the even 30s on Pennsylvannia Avenue)?
The 14A, B, C, D, M, T, and W should get 495 as their number so people know that they are the SmartMover buses and encourage people to ride. 14 was not a great choice because if you see the bus on the beltway, 495A would attract my attention more than 14A would. Also, WMATA should try to convince VDOT to let the buses operate in the shoulder. That is why ridership on the SmartMover is so low (average of 8 people per bus).
I totally agree. Not sure how they chose 14 as the route number. One time, I spoke to an operations person and they said it was going to be C1 and C3, but I guess that was before it expanded like it did. 495 would be too easy and uses too much logic. That's not how things are worked here!!! I think if that numbering system was to be redone, your idea of W for Wisconsin would be good for the 30's or P, for Pennsylvania Ave., but this would take so much to revamp the whole system. If Metro started from scratch rather than being a combination of all those old bus companies, it may have been easier to start a uniform numbering system.
I too agree that VDOT needs to let the Smart Movers use the shoulder. I've heard rumblings that Smart Mover is close to being eliminated or severly altered. Too bad, it was a nice idea that just hasn't taken off. The main problem is no parking in the Tysons area for those that work in Md. If the malls there would allow Park and Ride, it would work, but in a car dominated society, its very hard.
Service either has been or will be reduced from 4 buses an hour to three during rush hours. I don't think eliminating it is the current plan.
4404 was part of the bus bridge between Friendship Heights and Bethesda this afternoon, obviously they have extra buses for this service.
Yeah, during the middle of the day, only a couple of buses an hour are needed to cover 14M since 14A,B,C and D only run during rush hours. I've seen some of the 4390's, which are or had been used for SmartMovers, being used on the 23A running from Tysons Corner to Crystal City on a fairly regular basis. I'm hoping the SmartMover gets another year to see what can be done to boost ridership.
14M seems to be gone. From my school bus, the bus stop signs on River Road now only read 14A N7 T2. The last time I saw a 14M was a few weeks ago. I'm going to go to wmata.com to read the 14 schedule once I'm done reading the posts here and I will give an update.
I think your idea of WMATA SmartMover buses using the shoulder is a good idea. I often see them stuck in traffic which can't be good for ridership. Do you think VDOT might change their position if the WMATA were to use 96 inch wide buses on SmartMover routes???
Wayne
I really don't think VDOT would change their position since they keep saying that they want to keep the shoulders available for emergencies. Another lame excuse they used was that if people stuck in traffic saw the buses use the shoulders, they would follow them. I thought this is why you have police enforcement? Cars use the shoulders to pass the traffic anyways, they don't need a bus to give them that idea. Even though No. VA has a lot of transit, I see a lot of anti transit sentiment coming from them. They are particularly anti Metrobus. I don't know why it seems like that, but Fairfax county, especially, would love to turn over all service to Fairfax Connector. I know they have been eyeing the Chantilly and Centreville Lines.
RE:Buses using shoulder. I agree with you. I think VDOT is just being difficult. In Silver Spring along parts of US Rt 29 WMATA buses use the shoulder during peak hours.
Wayne
Yesterday I met a long-time motorman (for Third Avenue) and bus driver (for Surface Transp. or Transit). He spoke of driving buses on Bx-29, Willis Avenue, during the 1940's that had a gasoline engine powering a generator for electric motors. Now I only vaguely recall the pre-war Surface buses, on Willis Avenue and other old Bronx bus routes such as Riverdale or Locust Point. When the postwar bustitution began, Surface bought GM's in the 1000+ series (if I recall rightly) and Macks numbered 1600+. The older stuff was used during World War II and generally was not used as replacement for TARS streetcars. Is there on the web a roster of these 1940 (or so) "hybrids." Who made them? Thanks.
That's not a Hybrid. Back before the hydraulic transmission was perfected, transit buses were equipped with gas-electric or diesel-electric drive. The engine drove a 300 volt generator that fed a motor through a standard resistance control. Think of it as a trolley coach without wires. In fact, the gas/diesel electric bus was the "spark" that got Public Service (NJ) to develop the all-service vehicle. The all-service vehicle could either operate as a trolley coach, taking 600 volt DC from trolley wires, or as a gas-electric bus.
Sounds like a hybrid to me.
Nope. A hybrid is a bus with an electric drive and a battery to power it. The difference is a small diesel engine that runs at a constant speed and keeps the battery charged.
The gas/diesel electric was as described. A standard internal combustion engine drove a generator that directly powered the electric motor. The only battery was the 6 volt one that provided the power to start the engine.
Once the hydraulic transmission was perfected, the gas/diesel electric drive was literally abandoned in the transit bus industry. It was so good, the diesel hydraulic bus destroyed the Public Service all-service vehicle system in less than two years.
Dictionary definition of hybrid:
1: An offspring of two animals or plants of different races, breeds, varietes, species, or genera.
2: A person produced by the blending of two diverse cultures or traditions.
3a: Something heterogeneous in origin or composition.
3b: A word composed of elements from different languages.
The 1946-48 GMC busses that replaced the trolleys were numbered ll00-l599; the l000's that first came out were Yellow coaches,, the first ll of them l937-39; l0ll-l060 were Yellow TD4502's that looked like the l946 model TD4506; I never saw one. In l953 numbers l090-1099 came out TDH 5104; in l954 they got TDH 5l06 numbers l060-1089.Indeed the postwar Macks began at l600; with some numbers missing here and there they ran thru 2039. The l600-l8l2 were Manhattan only, the others were Bronx. If you can locate a copy of Motor Coach Age (by the Motor Bus Society) March l970 it has the entire "Surface " roster including postwar , prewar, and transplants from 5th Ave. Or E-mail me at bigedirtmanl@msn.com.
The buses you refer to were 1940 Macks with gas-electric drive that replaced the trolleys on the BX25 Morris Ave. and BX 29 Third/Willis/125th St. routes in 1941. These vehicles were part of large bus orders Third Ave. Railway placed to begin its planned motorization of its Bronx and Manhattan rail routes, per the franchise agreement signed with NY City in 1940. WW II held up the conversion and no nore routes were changed until 1946. The buses were gas-electric drive because the automatic transmission was just being perfected then and gas/electrics did away with conventional gear shifting. As an aside, the BX29 conversion (today's BX15) was done because NY City wanted to convert the Willis and Third Ave. bridges to one way traffic, an arrangement which persist to this day.
Thanks to each of you for answering my inquiry so helpfully. One more question: What was the Surface numbering of those 1940 Macks with gas-electric drive? 600's? 900's? (I'm guessing by vague memories from childhood, as my Dad and I toured NY streetcars after 1945.) Thanks.
Yah yah ok. Most of you people here know of the big round yellow lights to either side of the dest. sign in NYC. What are thay used for????? And what are they even called??? Today I saw a driver using them for some reason. And when these lights are on, the brake lights blink faintly. Hmm... well?
what an excellent emergency feature to have. You might as well just take the bullet. I am sure NYMTA has a better system than this. Send out for Chief Wiggum to respond
Hmm, don't know if you are being sarcastic or you really don't know. Anyway, they are called emergency lights. When they flash, all the parking lights and clearance lights flash with them. The idea is to attract attention to the bus and notice the destination signs which should say "EMERGENCY-CALL POLICE" or on the back, "CALL COPS". Most of the time, they are on because the operator hit's the secret button and activates them in error. Since anyone can read these messages, I won't say where the button is. However, once activated, if the operator inputs a new destination code into the luminator, "CALL POLICE" will be replaced again by the route number but the lights will continue to flash. This is what you probably saw. On the newest Novas however, the parking lights do not flash. Only the emergency lights. BIG AL
I believe NYCity first introduced the Hoodlum Lights with the 1969-1970 Flxibles (4000 series). We all thought they'd be some sort of express or marker lights. Not in NYCity. In Boston they use green.
Joe C
Joe,
The NYCTA 4000 series Flxibles were actually the second group of buses to get the Hoodlum lights. The first NYCTA buses to get these were the 1968 T6H-5305A (4300,4400,8800 & 8900 series).
The 4000 series Flxible (111C-D51)??? were the first MABSTOA buses with Hoodlum lights.
Wayne
Oh absolutely! Having a "senior" moment again, I'm afraid I am.
Actually, in true Bronx fashion, I tended to ignore anything south or east of the "mainland" borough, except for Manhattan. To me, that's all that counted anyway.
Seriously, I did get out to see/ photo these new GMC's when they came in.
When I heard that the TA/OA would get Flxibles, the 5000/ 5600's of the TA came to mind. Strange looking, as I had never seen a Flxible prior to 1964, nor too many up to that point. I just envisioned a bunch of green buses with their bottoms all ripped open, a large rear window and a whimpy sounding engine. I was WRONG!
Joe C
Joe,
Many times I wished I was about 5 years older to have seen more of the fishbowls when they were new. When I was a youngster starting school - I attended C.S.6 which takes up most of the block bounded by Tremont Ave, Bryant Ave, Boston Road and Vyse Ave. I remember seeing Q44 buses that would layover on Bryant Ave near Boston Road. I always knew they were "different" as I was seeing the 5600 series Flxibles, the 4400 series Fishbolws which were not at MABSTOA.
Those were the days...
Wayne
Just another correction; those 4300/4400's were the third group arriving in 1970/71.
We had a system here in Los Angeles for years that when activated would make the outside marker lights flash on and off.This system was on all the newlooks and I believe it was also on all the old looks as well.The problem with this system was that when it was engaged and the bus passed in front of a building with glass you could see the lights flashing which usually escalated the incident. You have to remember this was well before the electronic sign era. As for the EPCP on the electronic signs.... I did a test for the Riverside Police Department where as I took a RTA bus and did nothing but drive around Riverside and basically southern California with the "emergency, please call police" (EPCP) flashing on the sign. Almost 14 hours later I was tired of driving and not one call to police dispatch, RTA dispatch or our own dispatch. I am sure this system works in some areas, but in So. Cal., transit is not that big of a deal so I guess people dont care.
Well, actually, that pretty much answered my question. Just to clraify, this is the same as the "cops call 911" button?
That's right. Same button. BIG AL
In the RTS's I've seen, behind the driver, right above the first sideways-facing handicapped seat on the driver's side, there's a square-rectangle box that says "FARADAY" on it, and it looks like it has vents in it. What is this? This I really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really wanna know here. Thanks! :)
Its the passenger stop bell
And back in the old days that cover would have said KEYSTONE FARADAY
and was sold by the Electric Service Supplies Corp. Who makes and sells tham now?
Wow.
This would explain the fact that the new novas with the new stop bell have a different type of box.
Those bells are now all electronic.
-Hank
Wow.
This would explain why the new novas with the new stop bell have a different-looking box.
Thanks! :)
Faraday invented the DC dynamo and the solenoid.
Tevi, if you really, really, really, really, really, really, really wanted to know what the Faraday box was so bad, why didn't you just ask one of the operators? I'm sure they would have been more than glad to tell you. I answer questions about the RTS's I drive all the time. BIG AL
"Tevi, if you really, really, really, really, really, really, really wanted to know what the Faraday box was so bad, why didn't you just ask one of the operators?"
Umm... cause I'm an imbisoul?
While i was looking at Glenn Rowe's site from TransiTalk site & this bus look familiar to me. It this bus was stole by some kids ride on the bus & crash to Subway EL Beam back in 1994 or 1995??? Boy this bus look pretty real bad. Check this pictures from Glenn Rowe's Pictures. This picture look like took place at Old Walnut Depot in the Bronx & the bus next to it is GMC-RTS #3315.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
The bus driver lost control of the bus due to inclement weather while coming off the Williamsburg bridge. I believe it happened prior to 1994.
Judgeing from the elevated railroad in the background, I'd say the scene is in northeast Queens, along the approach to the Hells Gate Bridge, which is what that line is up there, no matter the boro. I don't know if the NYCR is that high up in the Bronx. I'm also more interested in the bus behind it, 331x. Note that a majority of the right side seems to have been cut away.
-Hank
I've been thinking about people's failure to close HTML tags and other things, and I was thinking what's the easiest way to solve the problem.
I think the webmaster (when he has the time) should force any message that has HTML in it to automatically preview, regardless of the button clicked. I don't know how hard this would be to implement, but it would certainly stop those annoying scrolling response boxes.
Eliminate the ability to post in HTML is what would be easiest.
-Hank
Then it would make it impossible to create links and emphasize text and make things look easier. Like quoting using <BLOCKQUOTE> or italics. What about posting pictures? I know you're against it because your browser doesn't have a stop button.
Hey, when I surf with my laptop, I'm limited to 19.2 (via cellular) I'd like not to be forced to download sounds and such, when I don't have to. I disable the image downloads. Something else about sound downloads, you never know where you might be. If some's asleep in the same room, I turn the volume down. But just like you've got to turn the volume on the TV up when you change the channel, some sounds are louder than others.
-Hank
If you don't want to DL images, hit STOP. If it gets downloaded by the time you do so, then big deal, it was small. If not, you gain something. We shouldn't all be completely incovenienced just because you have a special situation.
Didn't I say I disable images? I was talking about the sound. If it's embedded as it was in the thread on Subtalk, there's no way to stop it from downloading. People should use common courtesy, and provide either a link to the picture or sound they want to use, or a warning in the subject line.
And those who don't know what the hell they're doing with HTML, don't use it at all.
-Hank
I agree with the second part.
If you leave a particular webpage, you automatically stop the download, if you are stopped at one and reading, the download doesn't hurt.
But you may have to wait for the download to finish before you can skip back to the previous page, or ahead to the next.
-Hank
I was at City Hall and saw a M103 limited. It had an orange and purple sign in the front and also said limited on the destination sign. Since when the M103 have limited runs??????
B46#5104Mike
I would like to know how the yellow warning lights on the back of Long Island buses and most private line buses work. Do they flash when the operator takes his foot off both the gas and the brake pedals? Is there a motion swith that activates them when the bus is braking? I can never figure out what makes them flash when I drive behind them because they always seem to come on at random intervals. BIG AL
I think those are retarder lights. They flash when the bus is moving and the driver releases the gas. The brake is not on so the brake light are off. They flash and indicate the vehicle is slowing down.
I also seen the flash when the bus is parked. Wonder why MTA doesn't use them. I guess its because the retarder is hooked to the brake pedel. Most QS CNGs have Jake brakes.
The original design was for when the driver let off the accelerator, it makes the exhaust ports open. The switch for the lights was connected to the exhaust port and when engaged wouild make the lights flash. Basically, it is only to warn people behind the bus that is was preparing to stop or at best slow down. Now.. this was a great idea, but buses have done well without them for over 90 years, why do we need this? Dont you non maintenence oriented people see all the extra work involved in this junk? Why not keep transit simple? If your maintenence department doesnt have to spend the time repairing all the things that have absolutely nothing to do with the safe operation of the vehicle.. ie. fare counters behind the driver, exhaust (slow down) lights etc., then maybe they could spend more time repairing what it takes to make the vehicle do what it was designed for.. Befoe you New Yorkers blast me out of the water.... think about it. Why add more crap to an already overloaded maintenence department?
I agree with you! No argument from me here. This is probably why when you look at the documentation produced from Bus manufacturers, the "Deceleration Lamps" are and option and not standard equipment.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
For some reason, I've seen quite a few LI Bus CNG Orions in the 100-130 series with different numbers on the bus.
As an example one bus I had said 126 in the back, but front and outside numbers indicated 105. I've seen this on several buses, I dont know what it means. Unless they are changing bus numbers or something.
I was on some slow CS Orions today, mostly 600s. Saw 638 broken down on Union street just north of Northern Blvd.
Also was on one QS CNG Orion and one QS RTS. QS buses are so much faster than NYCT's. I was quite impressed with the RTS I had, even though I know Queens Surfaces RTS's are not so new. I think the bus # was 338. The bus was refurbished on the inside with the seats like in the Orions, and was fast. In general the RTS's do hold up pretty well. Will QS hold onto a few or are they all going to go? And where?
Since there are still a few that are in pretty good shape, perhaps LI Bus could use them (LIB could really use some buses to replace the piece of junk Gilligs). The funny thing is the Orion CNG had no A/C, but the RTS did! I rode sometime in late afternoon and it wasn't bad without the A/C on the Orion, but the RTS was definately nice and chilly.
I wonder how many of these refurbished RTS's QSC has, and what will become of them. I sure hope that if they go, we could get them at LI Bus. We are constantly short on buses, and could use to add some more to our fleet. If only we got RTS's back in the 80s instead of those horrible Gilligs.
Long Island Bus Orions #106-108, 114, 118, & 120 were all renumbered 125-130 soon after delivery.
The majority of the Queens Surface fleet is slated to be disburst among the privates (i.e. Green Lines, Jamaica Bus, and Triboro). How many is unknow, Jamaica and Green already recieved some.
Hope this info helps
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
294-389 are at QS. No more than that will go...for now. 275-281 are at GBL and were renumbered as 1143-1149. JBL received buses 282-293 and will be renumbered as 3854-3865. From what I know, only 3858-3859 and 3862 have hit the streets at JBL. Anybody clarify this?
MTAKing823
Can Confirm that all are in service at JBL because I was in Jamaica Center saturday and got photos of all of them, BUT A$$ NAKED!!!!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
[294-389 are at QS. No more than that will go...]
BTW, 294, 295 & 296 just went back in service to repl. two Orions out for a couple of weeks & MCI 914 now in for one of the serious rehabs we're doing on these old reliables.
Mr t__:^)
Well if Green gets those RTS's I bet they're gonna get bad pretty quick. The "new" Orions Green has already look like they are in horrible shape.
It's too bad ex-DOT buses don't go to LI Bus, because as we all know they could use them.
[I think the bus # was 338. The bus was refurbished on the inside with the seats like in the Orions]
If I'm not mistaken, the QS RTS's with fleet #'s above something like 325 had those vandal-resistant cloth seats from the start, with the fleet #'s below that with the hard red and grey seats. Thus, I don't think #338 was refurbished.
The following QS Buses have the cloth padded seats on them:
335-340, 342-343, 345-362, 364, 366-389. All the others that are not mentioned do not have cloth padded seats. They're red and gray.
MTAKing823
Oahu Transit(The Bus) in Honolulu has announced that they rejected 9 of the 10 New Flyer Artics delivered this month, due to faulty Construction, especially around the acordian connecting the sections, and told New Flyer they may cancle the order for the remaining 35 busses, unless they do something in 30 days
Last night on the Channel 2 News at 11 they mentioned about the Big Apple Tour fatality earlier this week. They also said that there was an accident yesterday in Manhattan where a tour bus rammed the back of a postal truck. No details given but implication it was Apple again. Any one know details ????????
#9306WF
Finally saw one of the new WMATA Orion V 40 footers today. It was number 2162 on the 1B to Dunn Loring traveling on Wilson Blvd leaving the Ballston Metro Station. OF course, the destination sign was busted, as is the case for these new Orion's, and the driver had a cardboard sign taped to the windshield. I don't know where the numbering scheme started, probably 2101 since they purchaed 100 of them.
The destination signs are not broken. They just have not been programmed yet. BIG AL
Oh, ok. Thanks. I guess I was just getting used to seeing a lot of the Orions with signs either not working, stuck on "Not In Service" or having some strange date on there. I guess this is something that will be fixed in the next couple of months.
Based on reports on the 5 O'clock newscasts, the administrative law judge is not expected to rule until next week (at the earliest) about the revocation of Apple's permits.
All the channels had the obligatory 2 politicians screaming for an immediate shut-down, claiming that the DOT can pull the pick-up permits, layover permits, etc.....Regardless of how any of us feel or don't feel about the company, haven't these bozo's (most of whom are lawyers) heard about a concept called "due process" ? Or does that only apply to your friends and clients ??
The pieces also showed a female employee making an impassioned appeal not to pull the permits since she and all her co-workers would lose their jobs. Based on the co-workers with her (all wearing the same shirts), they all looked young and probably not being paid very highly.
Also shown was a John Linzner testifying before the judge. He was the tour guide on the bus. I always thought that a tour guide would be clean cut, not have long hair and a beard. Nothing against the hippie look but it doesn't look professional for a tour guide. Again may go to the type of person hired by the company.
Does anyone know if the Grumman/Flx are still in service at JBL. I would like to ride one just one more time before the last 870 leaves NYC streets. Also why did the MTA get rid of their 870's while all the private Queens carriers held on to them until 1994 besides JBL. They are not bad at all and their styling is far better than any version or the RTS I ever seen. I seen a picture of MTA 236 on another website and thought the 870 looked good in the blue/white paint. SLAYER.
I stopped at JBL's yard at Linden and Guy Brewer Blvd's in Queens in mid-November 1999. The mechanics on duty allowed me to take pictures of some of them. At that time there seemed to be about a dozen of the 870's in the yard. A mechanic told me then, that the 870's were used as replacements for breakdown's or to handle overflows, not regularly scheduled service. Perhaps, Slayer, a call to their offices or an e-mail through their website could help you.
#9306WF f/k/a Hart Bus
There are still 14 Grumman Flxible 870s in service at JBL, you can go to the depot on any given non-rush hour period and photograph away!!!!!!!
R142 Boi 2K
Is Flixible/Grumman still in the bus building business?
NOPE! Stop bus production in 1995-96!
R142 Boi 2K
Heard the design was sold to MCI, but hve never had this verified
Yes this very true. MCI has yet to verify a reproduction! But has brought back the Parts part!
R142 Boi 2K
Saw this bus on a lot in Bklyn. Can anybody give me info about this bus??????????
B46M Limited
NYCT never had a bus 6334 that had a "PA" prefix. The last NYCT(A) 6334, prior to the current Orion V, was a 1973 GMC T6H-5309A. If it had a "PA" prefix, that was either a mistake or a joke by whomever applied it.
David
OR, it could have been a commuter bus from Jersey (Jersey Cruiser), since the ones from the early 80's are numbered in the 6000's.
It was a commuter bus from Jersey. I should have stated that in my post...........
B46M Limited
Sounds like one of the 1983-1984 NJ Transit MC-9J's to me.
That would be a MCI MC-9A Cruiser not a MC-9J Cruiser. Must be a serious typo!!!!
R142 Boi 2K
No, I did type the "J" -- that's what they are listed as in the MCI Production Records I have.
Funny thing is, the second big bunch that went to NJT are indeed listed as MC-9A's (the 1987 group).
Who knows who typed up the original production records.....oh well.
Would be easier to say if you said whose livery it was in, or if you knew, what type of bus it was. If it was in TA colors, it was most likely a movie bus, since the TA never had a 'PA'6334. The TA 6334 is a 1999 Orion V.
-Hank
Yes I did forget to mention that but, some people already knew what I was talking about so it clicked in some people minds...............
B46M Limited
It just hit me as to why that bus may have been there, with the arrvial of new MCI 102-D3 and 102-DL3 Cruiser coaches, NJ Transit has already sold off some of thier MCI MC-9A Cruisers to other companies such as Liesure Lines, Red & Tan, Suburban, and Academy.
I know for a pure fact that the buses that Suburban and Academy bought are still in NJT colors. Also in the same tounge 6334 is one of the sold units. To whom exactly is unknown.
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Trevor, I didn't realize any of the new New Jersey diesel cruisers had arrived yet. I think one of your posts several months ago indicated they wouldn't start coming until the Fall. In any event, I doubt if any of the privates would "buy" any of those old cruisers from NJ Transit, unless NJ Transit is merely giving them away. The privates are slated to get new cruisers also to replace the ones they presently have.
Given them away, purchasing, in any case, the 3 of the NJT Contract Privates now has MC9A and MC9B Cruisers of thier own. And the way you will know is if you see a 5 number bus # instead of the usual 4 bus #.
Example:
Red & Tan, NJT Bus #5287 is now Red & Tan #25287
Trans-Hudson, NJT Bus #3221 is now Trans-Hudson #13221
Suburban, NJT Bus #6799 is now Suburban #16799
Academy, is the only one taking buses and not renumbering them. They recently took #6160.
Also, none of the new MCI D3 and DL3 Diesel cruisers are here yet. The first two children of the fleet will come with the last 27 CNG D3 Cruisers for pilot runs. The first 100 or so will be here by Christmas with the Eagle AE-20 Cruisers leaving the fleet dead first. This is official information passed down to me by NJ Transit & MCI.
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
Red and Tan has renumbered all of the 5000 and 6000 series cruisers they previously owned by putting a "2" in front of the number. I understand that this was a Coach USA thing. I didn't realize Trans-Hudson and Suburban were similarly putting a digit in front of a 4-digit number, but I suspect this is part of the same Coach USA directive. I don't know for sure about the companies other than Red and Tan (Rockland Coach), but in the case of R & T all of the 5-digit buses beginning with "2" are buses previously owned by Red and Tan. They even put the "2" in front of the 1100 series MCI coaches that were not from the State.
By the way, ShortLine recently got some new buses, and these all are 5-digit numbers beginning with a "7" and followed by a "0". The final 3 digits seem to retain the current ShortLine numbering system (which I can't figure out). A few of the older Shortline buses are also appearing with 5-digit numbers, such as 70853 instead of H853. These new ShortLine buses are the first to wear Coach USA colors instead of the nice-looking ShortLine color scheme.
The Coach USA numbering schematic has seen all the western region buses (California, Nevada, Arizona, etc.) get a "6" in front of their former fleet number. Some buses that were three-digit numbers are no four-digit; all the previous four-digit numbers became 6xxxx. There were some duplications, so one bunch that was 401-409 became 66401-66409 (California Charter/Van Nuys "Flyaway" 102C3's with lifts).
It's also my understanding that the Coach USA companies in Canada are having their buses lettered "Coach Canada" and they get a prefix digit of "8".
Excerpts From the Daily News-
(complete article at http://www.mostnewyork.com/today/News_and_Views/Crime_File/a-68123.asp
Taylor told investigators that he and Godineaux met at 9 p.m. on Merrick Blvd. in
Queens at a prearranged location.
"You got the tape?" Godineaux asked Taylor, referring to duct tape. Taylor replied that he did.
"You got the biscuit?" Godineaux asked, using a street term for gun.
Taylor said he did, patting his fanny pack. The two men took an E train to 74th St. and Roosevelt Ave., then transferred to a No. 7 train to Flushing.
They arrived about 11 p.m., just before closing time. There were a
few customers in the Main St. eatery. The two men went to the
counter, placed orders and then sat at separate tables.
----
Taylor said he took the gun back and put it in his fanny pack. The
duo then lugged their heavy bag of loot out of the restaurant.
Taylor took a Q58 bus home.
--------
It's scary that these guys rode on the subway carrying the weapon used for the murders. Even scarier, is that after committing the murders, he rode on a bus carrying the cash with him.
I sure bet that Q58 bus driver is grateful that the madman didn't do
anything on the bus. Just thinking of it gives me chills. I feel bad for that Q58 driver.
I'm so suprised that the killers got so far.
For me, Main street in Flushing will never be the same. I always ate in that Wendy's and recognized the 5 people that were killed.
This is a major setback for Flushing, as many people re-think how safe it is. And Wendy's will be closed for a long time, and perhaps will never re-open.
And the fact that the woman waiting at the bus stop who identified the murderers was a prostitute, alone states that Flushing can be a very scary place at night.
Not only did the Wendy's killers kill 5 innocent, hard working people and injure another 2, they have killed Main street. Never will I feel the same when I walk down there again. Main street Flushing will never be the same.
"And the fact that the woman waiting at the bus stop who identified the murderers was a prostitute, alone states that Flushing can be a very scary place at night."
Why does that alone state that Flushing can be a scary place at night?
As I had stated in a post several months ago, I and a friend attended game 4 of the Mets/Atlanta playoffs in Oct. We parked in the big municipal lot, ate (coincidentally) at Wendy's and went by #7 to the game. The game ended at 10:10PM and we got back to Main St./Roosevelt Ave about 10:35PM. I was shocked how deserted the area was, gates on all stores, and the chants of "Rocker Sucks" being able to echo off the buildings.
In the mid to late 60's, before I had a car, I would take the #7 to Main St. and take many of the buses to visit friends or go on dates. At 10:30 on a Saturday night this area used to be a hopping area, with the pizzeria's, newstands, candy stores and bars all going full bore. Now to go there at 10:30 and realize that you are in a deserted area that is prone to crime is pretty scary.
It was reported on the 6 PM news yesterday the "The Wiz" electronics store a block or so away from Wendy's was held up. While the two robberies are not connected, it indicates that there is crime on Main St.
Aside to "Pigs of Royal Island", look back at the posts of several months ago regarding the Korean Gangs and other problems of downtown Flushing (or is it Flu-Shing) to get some idea how this once nice upper middle class shopping district has gone down the tubes
#9306WF
Yes, I remember those posts and understand how the effects of gangs and such can ruin a neighborhood. But why does the presence of a prostiture "alone" state anything bad about a neighborhood.
There are prostitutes on Park Avenue. They may not hang out on the street, but they're there.
The prostitute combined with the desolation of an area can make the area seem quite scary at night compared to the day.
Flushing at night is like a totally different place. When I took the 9:50pm N21 home a few weeks ago it was only somewhat busy around Main and Roosevelt. There were more beggars around, and most of the small shops were closed except for McDonald's and Wendy's (I had a frosty that night in there).
The dark streets with closed storefronts that are covered with graffiti spooked me out. And the N21 bus stop is toward Union street, where there weren't many people around, just the few people waiting at the bus stop.
I did not feel safe there, and will not take the bus at that time there.
During the day Flushing is bustling, but come 9pm or after things start winding down quickly. The funny thing is I remember going down Main street in Flushing about 8 years ago, and remember seeing all the neon lights and storefronts (lots more asian stuff) and how busy it was, and this was at around 9pm at night. Even Northern Blvd was busy and well lit with lots of activity.
Today, the area by Main and Northern is dead, even during the day.
The prostitute only changes YOUR perception of something. Are you afraid she'll hassle you into trying to get you to accept her services?
While a single hooker is not much of a problem, its the baggage she comes with, namely the pimps and drug dealers and primarily low income level customer she attracts. If she was "off duty" and going somewhere that's one thing. The post implied that she was on duty and looking for business.
I wouldn't go by too much what the Post says. I read that she was waiting for the bus when she saw the killers run out which implies she was not working the streets at the time. As for the pimps, drug dealers and "primarily low income level customer" (whatever that means) she associates with, I would not worry about any of them. If you mind your own business, they will not bother you. BIG AL
I remember being in Flushing at 9pm about 8 years ago. Main street was filled with people all the way to Northern Blvd. Lots of neon signs in chinese and korean lined Main street, Roosevelt avenue, and Northern Blvd.
Something has got to be done to spiff up downtown Flushing and fight the increase of crime in that area.
The City always seems to be paying attention to cleaning up Manhattan, but there are 4 other boroughs in the city that they don't seem to do anything about.
I have an old 1991 downtown Flushing map, which shows Alexanders and now defunct Chinese stores like Winmark market, some banks, and fashion stores like Attractive fashions.
Also was a big Canton Chinese resteruant on Northern Blvd.
And with this latest incident at Wendy's, this is a major blow to downtown Flushing.
So does just about everyone in New York. So? Hey, the guy at the desk next to you at work MIGHT be a serial killer! You know, they DO look just like normal guys. How can you tell who is or isn't the criminal? You a mind reader? Working for the thought police?
-Hank
I wonder if Taylor rode my favorite bus on the Q58,4212. That bus is very popular at Fresh Pond depot, especially among late P.M. Q58 drivers.
On the bus roster, it states that 2611 was sold. To whom was this great bus sold to?????
B46#8456Mike Limited
Word has it that the Superintendent of Flatbush bought her!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
what is 2611?
2611 is the last 1982 T80204 non-express seated bus that was in regular service. It last operated out of Flatbush depot.
Do you know approximately when she was pulled from passenger service?
Thank you.
She was yanked from service on April 15, 2000.
R36Gary
Barring any unforeseen emergencies, restored Mid Island Transit Bus #699 (ex-Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority) will be on display at the New York City Model Transit Association show in Kendall Park, New Jersey next Friday and Saturday, June 2nd and 3rd.
At the show, thousands of professional quality 8"x10" photos of subways, elevateds, buses, trolleybuses and railroads, dating from the early 1930s to the 1970s, primarily from the New York City metropolitan area, will be available for purchase.
Can anyone tell me when Busfest 2000 is and were? Or who I can get in touch with to find out. Thank you
Check my post of several weeks back...I believe that it is Sun. Sept 18. If you can't find my post call the museum at 718-243-8601 and ask them.
The Transit Museum's 8th Annual Bus Festival is on Saturday, September 16th, from 10 a.m. until 4 p.m. on Schermerhorn Street between Boerum Place and Court Street, the usual block right by the Museum. Admission will be $5 for adults and $2 for Museum members, seniors, children and MTA employees. The price includes admission to the Museum.
Does anyone remember the now defunct Almeida Bus Lines of New Bedford, Ma. that used to run between NYC and Hyannis on Cape Cod by way of the Newport Bridge. I used to ride this line very often to Newport, RI. They had marroon colored GMC PD#4905s, with a big picture of a rabbit on the side. They were very angry at Greyhound who opposed their ICC application and made them spend a fortune in legal fees to secure this route; so much so that old man John Almeida told his drivers to always pass any Greyhound that they saw en-route and that he would pay the speeding ticket if they got one.
I remember Almeida Bus lines. Seems to me they ran up and down I-95. They must have had a fairly large fleet as I remember seeing them fairly often.
Too bad they went out of business. I was wondering what happened to them.
Did their routes get taken over by anyone else? Perhaps Bonanza or Peter Pan service their stops now? Who got their fleet? It seemed well maintained.
They were bought out by Bonanza, who took over their routes & equipment. They were a large operation with over 40 buses. John Almeida was not an American. He was from Portugal. After he sold the company to Bonanza, he returned to Portugal where he had rather substantial real estate holdings. The feature that I liked about Almeida was that you could go direct from Port Authority to Newport, RI in about 3 hours. They would exit from I-95 at Route 138 and then travel east to the Newport Bridge, stopping at University Of Rhode Island en-route. With Bonanza, you have to travel to Providence and then change buses to get to Newport which takes 4 and a half hours.
Bonanza picking up Almeida's fleet explains my long ago memories of Bonanza running PD4905s. I guess Bonanza was able to do better with the routes than Almeida as they seem to be very successful now.
I wonder if ACELA express service will cut into their piece of the pie? For that matter - ACELA might have the potential to hurt Peter Pan and Greyhound as well on the Shoreline.
I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Isn't there a New York to Newport market?
I think that there's more to see in Newport than Providence, only that Providence is along the way to Boston.
From a tourist point of view, Newport is a much more desirable destination than Providence. It has many more sights all packed into a small compact area. It can generate much traffic especially in the warm Summer months. However it dies in the Winter time. Providence on the other hand is a major metropolitan area which generates year round traffic, most of it not at all tourist related. As far as AMTRAK is concerned, the closest station to Newport is Kingston, RI where you must transfer to a local Transit bus for the 45 minute ride to Newport. Still, when all is said and done, I still think that a direct express bus from NYC to Newport would be profitable, especially during weekends in the summertime.
This past Saturday morning, I was on Green Bus Lines #5501. It was talking, but some of the things it said are not 100% correct.
Next stop 46th Street. Connection here to the #7 train, the B24 to Greenpoint, the Q32 to Jackson Heights, and the Q104 to Astoria.
It would be nice to inform folks that the B24 also goes to Williamsburg and the Q104 goes into Long Island City.
Next stop 60th Street.
Next stop 65th Place. Transfer here to the Q18.
Next stop 69th Street. Transfer here to the Q45.
These are the 3 times that what it says are 100% correct
Next stop Grand Avenue. Connection available to the 8th Avenue Subway.
What happened to the Q53, Q58, and Q59 to Williamsburg?
8th Avenue Subway? That is so old!
Next stop Woodhaven Boulevard. Connection available to the Q11, the 8th Avenue Subway, Triboro Coach Q29 and Q38, and the Q88 to Flushing.
Q88 to Flushing?!? What, Queens Village isn't good enough, so you say it goes somewhere it doesn't even touch?
See above for 8th Avenue Subway and Q53.
That's all I can speak about because I got off at that point.
Another question: How do the talking buses know where they are? Do they have a GPS system in them, or are they manually controlled by the driver? What about the buses on Long Island Bus and at JFK Airport? They announce every stop along the way. I was on an N6 bus going to Hempstead, and it announced every stop along the route, starting at the Queens/Nassau border.
I believe that on LI Bus it is controlled by the odometer. If there is a route diversion, the whole thing gets screwed up.
How about this 1:
Next stop: 71 Ave 108 St Continental- change here for the 8th Avenue Subway, the Q23, Q65 and Q65A to Flushing. The Q65 runs via 164 St not on Jewel Ave. Jewel Ave is Q65A.
Ascan Ave is after that. The it's Union Tpke change for the Q37 and Q46. Even though the Q74 doesn't run on weekends, what happened to that route? And 80 Rd change for the Q10 to JFK. That's where I get off. I rode 5501 into Manhattan once and nothing was said when we got at the last stop.
R36Gary
I can't believe this thread is still alive after 3½ months! If it were on SubTalk, it'd be gone by now!
Anyway, I was on 5501 until Jamaica Avenue, and nothing was said beyond 80th Road.
The last time I saw 5502's interior sign, it was showing the date and time.
SEPTA doesn't even use the stop announcement system anymore.
Hello,
Please check our website for updates about our show. Included are directions to the school at which the show will be held.
- http://home.att.net/~sctransit/NYCMTA1.htm - OR Straight to the directions:
- http://home.att.net/~sctransit/directions.htm
Dealers to include: Joseph P. Saitta, Royal Coach, Kurt M. Resch, MTS Imports, Q-Car Co., H&M Publications, Mark S. Feinman, Images Replicas, The Car Works, Imperial Hobby Productions, Joseph Guarino, Arnold Joseph, Rich Short, Branford Trolley Museum, and many others!
Hope to see you there!
I'm reiterating a query I had sent out some time back.
Was there a time in recent history when bus transfers on MTA buses were NOT free?
Thank you!
Not in the last 10 years.
Arti
The history of bus transfers is varied and in light of current very liberal priveleges, almost the opposite in terms of user-friendliness.
In summary, here are the privileges that existed prior to 1980 when free transfers became the norm, and after 1962 when MABSTOA was created:
Brooklyn: Free bus/bus, at specific designated locations, only with NYC Transit Brooklyn division. No transfers to Queens Division or privates (e.g., in Jamaica between B56/B53/B22 and Queens Div. or Green Bus routes).
Staten Island: Free bus/bus, at specific designated locations only.
Queens: Free bus/bus, at specific designated locations only. No transfers to Brooklyn Div., any privates, or MABSTOA (e.g., Q32 nee 15).
Manhattan Division (today's M15, M22, M27/50, M66, M31): free transfers to/from these routes only. No transfers to any MABSTOA routes.
MABSTOA (Manhattan/Bronx): No transfers, period. Two buses = two fares. Reason: 5th Ave. Coach/Surface Transit management eliminated transfers in January 1962, and MABSTOA chose to continue that policy after its March 1962 creation.
PRIVATES (Queens): Transfers only within each company's system, at specific designated locations. No transfers to NYCTA or other privates.
I recall something called "ADD-A-RIDE" what was that?
Peace,
ANDEE
I forgot about it, you're right. Add A Ride existed from Sept 75, when the base fare went to 50 cents, until July 1980, when freebies became the rule. In all instances where no free transfers existed, meaning all of MABSTOA, between MABSTOA and NYC Transit, and between NYC Transit routes that did not exchange freebies, for 25 cents extra a customer could buy an "Add A Ride" ticket (looked like a transfer and acted like a transfer). Basically, it meant that there were two classes of transfers, free and half-fare.
You left something else out:
Under the Board of Transportation, there were transfers 'sold' (similar to Add-a-Ride) that essentially made the system a one-fare zone. All the transfers that Staten Island Ferry riders now enjoy free were, before the advent of the NYCTA, available for a fee.
-Hank
You're right, but my earlier postings were about the 1962-1980 period.
The Board of Transportation transfers you correctly refer to only lasted from 1948 to 1952, during the period of the basic ten cent fare. When the subway fare went up in 1948 from a nickel to a dime, it doesn't seem like much now, but it was a 100% increase. Bus fares, however, only went to 7 cents (6 cents on certain private lines). To soften the impact the Board of Transportation created interdivisional free transfers on the subways (e.g., between IRT and BMT at Times Sq), and a system of "paid transfers" between subways/els and the entire bus system, both privately and publicly owned. A standard 12 cent fare was established for intermodal (bus or trolley/rapid)trips, so the transfers varied in cost from 2 to 6 cents depending on the system where the passenger originally boarded. Staten Island bus passengers could buy 2 cent transfers on the island that were good at South Ferry/Whitehall subway stations for a continuous trip. Ferry cost an extra nickel.
Bus to bus transfers were generally still free within the confines of the boro/private system issuing the transfer.
I am trying to locate or obtain copies of photographs of NYC Omnibus Holy Name Society Communion Breakfasts circa 1946-52, which were attended by my father (Dan Harrington, 86th Street Crosstown, 1930s-1959) and myself. I used to have two such photographs; they had great sentimental value, but unfortunately were lost over the years. Anyone out there know where such photographs might still be viewed or copies obtained? Any help or hints would be greatly appreciated.
Joseph Harrington
A couple Bus Talkers were looking for som Road Champs Flxible Metros that I have in storage.....are you guys still interested?? I'm doing some custom repaints, and I don't want to strip the paint off the ones that were being hunted for. Otherwise they're going to become SF Muni.....
If you got a Miami Dade Flx, e-mail me at Mtaboy2000@cs.com, and I wouldn't mind one of the MUNI ones either! EMAIL ME BRO!!!
R142 Boi 2K
Will contact you via e-mail. The MUNI versions will be ready in about a month or so but I do have a Miami version available.
Make sure you put wheelchair decals on them. I put them on 5 of mine.
NO, my NJT "Superdetail" bus is not for sale. It was just to make the buses look more real.