Recently, a memo was posted telling drivers to operate their buses with the headlights on at all times. I thought this was a dandy idea since it increases bus visibility. A feature of all of the new buses is DRLs (or Daytime Running Lights).
Here's where I want your opinion. Since DRLs are on all the time, do you think it's necessary to operate a bus (as most drivers do) with low beams and marker lights on 24/7? Is it sufficient to operate in the daylight hours with just the DRLs (which use only high beams)? Either way, headlights are on at all times as the memo proscribed.
THE MEMO YOU REFER TO IS AT LEAST 5 YEARS OLD IF NOT OLDER.I HAVE BEEN USING HEADLIGHTS ON FOR MANY YEARS.
That does not answer the question. It merely reveals that I have a terrible sense of time.
The Baltimore MTA has been operating all buses with the headlights on in daylight for at least 6 years. All buses, regardless of age, have had the circuits arranged for the headlights on whenever the bus is moving.
It helps distinguish the bus from other traffic, and it annoys me when someone drives their car with their headlamps on during the daytime.
On new cars the daytime lights are on all the time. Get used to them.
Study after study in numerous contries (Canada and Sweden among them) have proven that it's safer to drive with light on at all times. I've seen a few videos where they demonstrate the difference. Let's just say I have a new appreciation for headlight on tree-lined country roads.
And despite rumor to the contrary, there is no state that has a law against the use of vehicle lights in the daytime.
-Hank
Uh, why? If visibility is low (it's overcast, it's foggy, it's raining, whatever), I'd rather you confuse my car with a bus than with empty space. (Incidentally, in New York State the law now requires headlight operation whenever windshield wipers are in use.)
They tried to get that passed in Maryland, but the General Assembly killed the bill in committee, stating that that was the Fed's domain.
I think it's a good idea even in passenger cars. I keep my lights on almost all the time. It's too bad that they annoy you because most automobile manufacturers now equip their cars with DRL and on Volvos (and Saabs) all lighs come on when the car is started, however it can be disabled.
Wayne
Here in Norfolk, Virginia, most people put their headlights on in Foul weather as well....The transit buses here have theirs on 24/7...I modified my minivan to utilize DRL because of the near misses I had in the past.
75 images had been added on NYCTransiTrans's Bus Page & enjoy it. Also i will be updated my subway's page tomorrow.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Are there any color photos that exist of the old Mack & GMC Transit buses operated by Surface Transit Corp. in the Bronx before the MABSTOA takeover ? I believe that the buses were red and white in color.
KING SOLOMON
I have seen them posted, from time to time, in one of the "newsgroups".
alt.binaries.pictures.vehicles
My 1997 and 1998 editions of the Metro New York Area Bus Mega Calendars have six of the photos you're looking for. I still have a few copies of these and the 1996 edition available (each is $29.95 plus UPS, and each has 55 full-page all-color photos of New York metropolitan area buses dating back to the 1950s). If you'd like the ordering information, just e-mail me: JoePCC699@AOL.com.
In addition, I have a huge selection (10's of thousands) of old black and white 8x10 photos of buses from all over the USA, but primarily from New York and New Jersey. Most were taken from post-World War II until just after the arrival of the Fishbowls, circa 1962. My inventory will be with me at various upcoming railroadnia and transit shows, starting this weekend in Boston.
This is coming from a NY fan maroned amid all the happenings here in lovely Los Angeles. Right now I am curious as o wether Triboro is stillrunning Methanol. Here at LACMTA the last MEthanol 1259 fell on 1-31-00 and is now Deisel. Any assistance for this quest is WELL APPRIECIATED as I am contemplating a visit to NY in late April and need to know all I can as where to find the Methanols in service. THANKS AGAIN. M1
Not much Methanol around. Ttiboro's 6 buses from 1986 are either converted to diesel or scrapped; the 1995's (I think around 12 were built) are faring poorly. I think less than half are active.
2136 2138 2140-2142 2144 and 2147 are still left in service at CTC.
Q18#2144Gary
2137, M-1 and M-4 (and perhaps others) were at the old Command lot as of yesterday. I had heard rumors before that some of the newer methanol buses would be converted to diesel, but don't know how true this is.
There were others there as well (Forgot the #'s)
Thanks for the info. For the carrear that the Los Angeles RTD now MTA Methanol later Ethanol TMC RTS 06's ran at about 50% of the fleet at any given time. Where as the other half was bieng repaired. Also RTD had converted about 10 GMC RTS 04's to run on Methanol but that was a hidieous failiure. Some were re-converted some wre sold. Now a fond memory. Anyone know of any other straggling Methanols around or where I can get some pictures particularly of the Triboro's? I have lts of LA stuff for trade for those interested. Bye. M1
I frequently visit the TA's CES (Ctr Elect. Shop) in Woodside and have seen cTc Methanol's on their Q18.
Hopefully Steve, aka FDNY, will reply, as he probally knows for sure.
Mr t__:^)
According to Metro Magazine Queens Transit is one of the WORSE Managed Transit Companies in the USA in economics.
What is metromagazine's website?
[According to Metro Magazine Queens Transit is one of the WORSE Managed Transit Companies in the USA in economics.]
1st Metro Magazine is a "trade" and usually avoids rating their customers.
2nd Queens Transit W-A-S a firm that served Queens until 1982, so is the article from a very old issue ? In it's very early history as a bus company NY & Queens County (later Queens-Nassau & QT) and Steinway were trolley companies bought for scrap value and only subsequently did the owner decide to keep them in operation and replace trolleys with buses.
I've seen data in US DOT "Transit Profiles" that trys to rate the different bus companies in the US, but that would be NJ Transit vs. CT Transit vs. TA vs. nycDOT as opposed to Green vs. Jamaica vs. Queens Surface etc.
Mr t__:^)
I ride the bus and will ride the the Light Rail lines Everyday In The Phoenix, Arizona Metro Area because I cant afford to Purchace a car and all the expences that accompany a car and at 19$ a month (My Company pays the 15$ difference in Monthly Bus Passes) You cant beat that cost with a car. None of the anti-transit avoacates think about the % of Residents who have to use transit due to Age (Under 18/(21 in NYC) and our Elders (Over 6-) and also persons with disabilitys to get to work/school/shopping. All of us need public transit. Taxi rates are unaffordable for day to day needs (As Example Where I Live in metro phoenix Cab service is unreguated and the major cab companys charge 3.00 per mile and if you want to go to the airport on top of the milage charge a $10 airport fee is charged. (Only 3 taxi companys are allowed to pickup/dropoff at airport these companies are licenced by the airport)
"....due to Age (Under 18/(21 in NYC)"
What are you talking about? What age limit are you reffering to and why is it 3 years more in New York? I certainly can drive, and if I had money buy a car, and I have reached neither of those ages. As for your claim of transit as a social service, people don't like it because they don't use it, they also don't understand it's function as a social service. And, although I like busses, it is the lowest class of transport, it's slow and expensive. The middle class, except in the largest cities, would not use one. They would however use rail.
In The city limits of NYC no one under the age of 21 may drive a motor Vel. That also includes all out of state licences. From AAA New York Tour Book, New York City Section
I may look that up if I can find that book, but it is not true.
And in other parts of the country, one can drive when one is 16, sometimes even 14. In New York City and Long Island the age is 17 or 18.
Here is information from the DMV:
The minimum driving age in New York State is 16. You may not drive in New York State if you are under 16, even if you are licensed in another state. Also, drivers age 16 and 17 are subject to both the restrictions imposed in the home state and the New York restrictions for junior operators. For important information on driving restrictions for learner permits and for drivers under 18, see our brochure Learner Permits and Junior Licenses.
YOU MAY DRIVE WITH A JUNIOR LICENSE
(See DEFINITIONS above)
(All 5 Boroughs)
Long Island
(Nassau & Suffolk)
Upstate New York
(All Other Counties)
5 AM to 9 PM
5 AM to 9 PM
5 AM to 9 PM
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES
When accompanied by a licensed parent, guardian, driver
education teacher, or driving school instructor.
Not accompanied, you may drive only
directly between your home and work, a work-study program, a course at a college,
university, or registered evening high school, a driver education course**, or while
engaged in farm employment.
WITHOUT BEING ACCOMPANIED
9 PM to 5 AM
9 PM to 5 AM
9 PM to 5 AM
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES
You may drive only directly between your home and a
work-study program, a course at a college, university, or registered evening high school,
a driver education course**, or while engaged in farm employment.
When accompanied by a parent or guardian.
Not accompanied,
you may drive only directly between your home and work or school.
**ONLY On Days When Taking a Driver Education Class.
If you complete a state-approved high school or college driver education course, and you are 17 years old, you are eligible for a regular license (Class D). To receive one, bring your "blue card" (MV-285) and junior license to any motor vehicle office. You must actually convert to a class D. Otherwise, you are subject to all junior operator restrictions until you are 18, even if you carry a "blue card."
If you completed high school or college driver education in another state, and you wish to use that course to obtain an operator's license (Class D) in New York State, use the form Request for Approval of Out-of-State Secondary School Driver Education Course (MV 285.1) to apply.
That is not true. The legal age for driving in NYC is 17.
Sixteen, when driving with a licensed driving teacher (licensed as a driving teacher, not just as either a driver or a teacher) in a vehicle with a brake on the passenger side.
I have the newest edition of that book, and it's nowhere in there.
Are you sure that the "under the age of 21" restriction wasn't for driving BUSES and/or TRUCKS? Certainly it can't apply to automobiles.
Here in The Big Apple people have many choices of transportation. Automobiles (including taxicabs and other for hire vehicles) are the number one preference. Number two is getting somewhere by foot. Number three is the subway system. Number four is the bus.
Different situations have different priorities. If you're only going a few blocks, walking is the first choice, followed by the bus and then, the taxi. If you have difficulty walking, the bus is pretty much the only choice. Many people do not want to spend cab fare for a short ride.
Other parameters to consider are destination, time factor, personal health and financial consideration.
In short, your choice of transport is a deeply personal one and it is the number of venues that is the answer, not the venue itself.
As for my favorite venue? Scotty, beam me up.
I visit Phoenix at least once a year, and always rent a car, because present bus service in Phoenix is not the greatest, with one exception. Now that the recent public referendum went in favor of increased transit, thing may get better, but don't hold your breath for any light rail too soon. Phoenix is a fascinating transit study locale, in my opinion. Valley Metro and its predecessor, Phoenix Transit, has not kept up with the growth in the area. Would you believe the 6th largest city in the U.S. has no Sunday bus service. But the big exception is Tempe, sort of a Phoenix suburb. In the last few years, the increase in bus service in Tempe has been phenominal. I don't know what ridership is like, but I suspect Tempe is a rare case of service being increased much more than actual ridership. Because Tempe can't get Valley Metro to add as much service as it wants, it runs its own service (Bolt). For example, Valley Metro wouldn't run buses more than every 30 minutes through Tempe, so Tempe added a Route 40 that runs every 30 minutes in between the Red Line runs. And there is Sunday bus service in Tempe. If anyone wants to study a pro-transit municipality in the U.S., Tempe has got to be near the top of the list. I just hope the ending is a successful system that is used and appreciated by its riders!
Phoenix will start Late Bus Service Monday - Saturday and the first Sunday Service since 1968 In Late August 2000, On the day after Prop. 2000 Passed in March 2000 Phoenix mayor Skip Rimza Ordered 150 Low Floor 45 Foot NAMBI Buses all running on LNG to be delivered over the next two years. As for Tempe City Transit Service Operates 15 minute service during rush hours 30 minutes service at all other weekday times, 30/45/60 minute service On Saturday/Sunday Plus the 4 free shuttles operating every 8 to 10 Minutes 7 days A week.
As it happens there is a feature article in this month's (March/April) issue of the trade magazine "Mass Transit" on Phoenix. I haven't read it yet, but it includes a article on one of their long time "private" operators "Valley Metro" ... you guessed it I will read this one.
P.S. How many city employees does it take to run (supervise) this operation ? Just 17 suits. MTA/NYCDOT do you have your ears on ?
Mr t__:^)
Is this magazine available to the public?
"For change of address or subscription information: Phone 920-563-1747, or FAX 920-563-1702", or Editor jim.duffy@cygnuspub.com
Rates are $48/year.
If that's too steep for you, find a friend who works in the industry to sign up for it.
BTW, it and Metro have become better magazines, i.e. less fluff and more substance, however they're a industry trade magazines so don't look for a lot of critical articles about what is being done wrong.
Mr t__:^)
Yeah, that costs too much. But thanks anyways!
Valley Metro Transit is an Operating name of the Transit System (Bus/Rail/Dial A Ride/Vanpool/Light Rail) In The metro Phoenix area.
They are several Contractors All operating under contract to the citys or To the County.
Phoenix Transit Local/Express Buses (ATC/Vancom) Phoenix, Arizona
"Laidlaw" Transit Local Buses Phoenix, Arizona/Maricopa County
"Forsythe" Transit Local/Express Buses Tempe, AZ/Scottsdale, AZ/Mesa, Az/Maricopa County (3 Ind Divisons)
"ATC/Vancom" Local Buses Maricopa County, AZ
"Valley Coach" Airport Shuttle Buses Phoenix, Az
There Are 7 Dial A Ride Operating Co. 5 of these are city owned/operated, 2 are private op/city owned
All buses are owned by the city's or county operated by private co's
Before the Valley Metro Name Was Adopted In 1993 Each city in metro phoenix had its own name and fares. with all under one name one fare Metro Wide.
Thanks for your very detailed reply. Several years ago I made contact with one of these companies, but didn't know that they were just one of many there.
Mr t_:^)
Valley Metro Transit is an Operating name of the Transit System (Bus/Rail/Dial A Ride/Vanpool/Light Rail) In The metro Phoenix area.
They are several Contractors All operating under contract to the citys or To the County.
Phoenix Transit Local/Express Buses (ATC/Vancom) Phoenix, Arizona
"Laidlaw" Transit Local Buses Phoenix, Arizona/Maricopa County
"Forsythe" Transit Local/Express Buses Tempe, AZ/Scottsdale, AZ/Mesa, Az/Maricopa County (3 Ind Divisons)
"ATC/Vancom" Local Buses Maricopa County, AZ
"Valley Coach" Airport Shuttle Buses Phoenix, Az
There Are 7 Dial A Ride Operating Co. 5 of these are city owned/operated, 2 are private op/city owned
All buses are owned by the city's or county operated by private co's
Before the Valley Metro Name Was Adopted In 1993 Each city in metro phoenix had its own name and fares. Now with all transit under one name one fare Metro Wide people can commute better..
I believe the previous Valley Metro bus order also included some NABI 45-foot transit buses. Are these the first 45 foot transit buses to be produced in the U.S.? I suspect the buses running on Denver's downtown transit mall may be 45 footers, but I can't think of any others off-hand.
Sid, Have you ever had occasion to use you credit card to pay the fare on-board ? I believe once they know your account you're in the system for ever. Is it obvious that they are operated by a private company ?
Mr t__:^)
Thurston, I rember paying my fare with a credit card many years back. The current "Bus Book" doesn't seem to indicate that paying single fares by credit card is still an option.
I believe there is a small sign on the outside of the bus as to who the contract operator is. However, the buses all appear in Valley Metro colors, except for some of the Tempe buses, which are in a Bolt scheme using the same colors as Valley Metro. Is the use of a private contractor by Phoenix and Tempe any different than so many other systems use, e.g., Laidlaw and others who do significant contracting with public transit agencies? For example, some of the New Jersey services are contracted out, but the buses retain New Jersey Transit colors, as contrasted with some of the private operators who get New Jersey monetary support but operate in their own colors.
Valley metro Still Excepts Visa & Mastercard for Fare Payment However Some Of The Older "Bolt" Bus Fairboxes On Tempe Arizona Buses Do Not Take Credit Cards. But we can pay fares with a dollar bill. and pennies and also half dollar coins. (1.25 local fare/1.75 express fare) NY MTA Should think about this for cash fare passengers.
Yes,
NABI and Neoplan are the only two companies to come out with a 45' standard transit bus.
R142 Boi 2K
How many folks out there know the story of the GMC #PD4901 also known as the Golden Chariot. Only one of these was ever built and I had the privilege of riding on it.
Tell us about it please. I am not familiar with the bus at all. I have driven PD 4107, 4903 and 4905's Is a 4901 a streach 4106?? The rear roof of the buses I reered to looked just like tall 4106's. We used to refer to the as buffalo's because of the Vista Window.
What was the number for the Scenic Cruiser I know the prototype was built from 2 pd4104's and the first trial was from 2 4103's (Non AIRRIDE Straight 6-71)
The Golden Chariot was a very unique vehicle. When I saw it for the first time it looked like a stretch PD4104 but a very high one. The story begins when Greyhound first approached GMC to build a 40 foot long coach for their long distance trans-continental lines. GMC built 2 prototypes. One was the PD 4501 which Greyhound chose and is known to everyone as the now famous Scenicruiser. The other prototype which Greyhound rejected was the PD #4901 or Golden Chariot. It had the basic shape of the 4104 but unlike the Scenicruiser its entire 40 foot length including the driver's position was on a very high level, equal in height to the rear portion of the Scenicruiser. Consequently there was a very steep stairway entering the coach with 6 steps up vs. the traditional 3 for the 4104. It had a tag axle like the later model 4903 & 4905. Besides the height (11 ft. 8 inches) and 40 foot length, the only external feature that looked different from the 4104 was the door to the engine in the rear which had 2 double doors that contained a grill and swung open sideways. The bus was originally built as a 47 passenger. The rest room was in the traditional rear on the passenger side. It had a 4 speed transmission with a hydro-shift button on the gear shift to give it 3 extra in between gears. Unlike the 4104 it was not an air-ride suspension vehicle but a spring ride like the old #3701 Silverside washboards. This gave it a very hard ride in the back. When you hit a bump the people on the rear seat bounced high. Also, the air conditioning was not powerful enough to cool the vehicle sufficiently on a very hot day. These 2 factors plus the steep entrance stairway was why Greyhound rejected it in favor of the Scenicruiser. The coach saw much of its service in the New Jersey area. ARO Coaches (Villani) of Linden, NJ operated it for many years and it was painted in their red and yellow livery. Only 1 driver, Richie White, drove this coach with Villani. He was an Afro-American whose trademark was the white gloves he always wore while driving. Villani increased the seating capacity to 49. The bus was then sold to Wagner Tours of North Haledon, N.J. Wagner repainted the bus in his brown & white livery, increased the seating capacity to 51, and changed the transmission over to an electric clutch. It was at this time that I used the bus on one of my Labor Day Weekend tours to Cape Cod which I personally escorted. The last owner of the vehicle was George Bell of Glassboro, N.J. who purchased the coach from Wagner. The name of his company was Summit Town Transit Rental. He used it primarily to operate a line run for the students of Glassboro State (now Rowan) College. It ran from Glassboro to Paramus, N.J. every weekend and did charters in between. When George passed away the company died with him. The last time this bus was seen it was rusting in a junkyard somewhere in south Jersey. More information is available in a book by Larry Plachno, editor of Bus Ride Magazine available through Amazon. com.
The book you refer to is Modern Intercity Coaches by Plachno. I got it through Barnes & Noble.com. I'm sure its available thru other sellers as well. If you go to Bernie Lopez's Bus Depot (linked from this site) there is a small review of the book.
Chapter 3C (four pages) is devoted to the Chariot. It has three exterior pictures but no interior pictures. One of the pictures shows the rear grille referred to in KS's post.
One picture shows it as Unit # P5559 with no name on the side but operating that day for Pennsylvania Greyhound Lines with License Plate # PD4901. The other two pictures are in Summit Town Transit Livery and Wilson Bus Lines livery.
I did not know about Wilson Lines operating this bus. Is that the Wilson out of Templeton, Mass ? There is a beautiful 8 x 10 color picture of this coach hanging in Wagner Tours office in North Haledon, N.J. Doc Wagner does not want to let this picture out of his posession. However he did agree next time he has a bus in Rockland County to send it with a driver over to my house so I can take 2 minutes to scan it on a Zip disc. I will then be able to use Photoshop to restore the colors to their original hue (they are faded now). I will give him a new picture and share copies with anyone who is interested. As an interesting footnote, while the bus was at Wagner Tours it was known affectionately as "KING KONG". The driver who was assigned this coach on a permanent basis was Ronnie Liggerio of Yonkers, N.Y.
The chapter claims that the bus was probably built in late summer or early fall 1954, although that is conjecture and Greyhound produced a sales brochure for it. On a following page it is suggested that the bus was built in 1953 (typo or not I don't know).
Initially it operated on the NYC-Philly run for Pennsylvania Greyhound with no Greyhound markings but fleet # P 5599 as the picture indicates. It operated for several years as a demonstrator model and was not offically titled and sold until 1958.
A brief history of ownership - North Star of Michigan - 1958
Wilson Bus Lines of East Templeton
Blue Diamond Lines (NJ)
Aro Coach (NJ)
Wagner Tours, (NJ) - 1967
Summit Town Transit Rentals (NJ)
Wilson Bus Lines (again) - late 80's
King, If you'd like--E-mail privately and I'll photo the 4 pages and either snail mail or fax them to you. I don't have a scanner...Also the pictures in the whole book are black & white.
#9306WF a/k/a Hart Bus
A GM sales brochure I have on this coach indicates that it was printed in 1954. As the brochure is generic, it appears GM was trying to market this coach model to more than just Greyhound.
Most likely it was built in 1953 and after Greyhound rejected it, GM tried to find a market for the model (conjecture and not fact). It's the only reason I can see for GM producing a generic sales brochure for this coach.
RDChilds
I had heard that the 4501 prototype was built in the Chicago shops of Greyhound from two 4104's that they disected. The first one was built from two 4103's with leaf springs and a 6-71 that was under powered. The 4501's had two 4-71's with a marine hydryalic coupler that did not work very well. They were converted to 8V-71's when they became available in the 60's.
I would like to see a picture of the the 4901 can someone post one?
I think there's a photo of this bus in an old copy of Bus World - possibly the 1982 Eagle Special issue??? I'll check for it.
Wayne
Now on eBay: Item #296269104, a beautiful 8x10 photo taken in 1954 of scores of Public Service Coordinated Transport buses parked in front of the famed roller coaster at Palisades Amusement Park. Take a nostalgic look!
I need a complete set of destination sign curtains for a fishbowl. I am restoring DCTransit original 6342 and the signs are the only thing I dont have.
i saw this store in greenwich villiage yestrday. they had the followeing rts buses in these designs:
BeeLine
Triboro Coach-with sign "QM11-Wall St"
They also had MCI buses in BeeLine signs that looked good.
email me at pingu45@aol.com for address.
these are in o scale and a bus bank design..i think
This is probally the same plastic RTS that you can buy from the TA or QSC (we hand them out with a watch to our retirees).
Mr__:^)
They sound like Jimson Model #200 which are made in China. They are then "Customized" by Royal Coach at 911 Conley Drive, Mechanisburg, PA 17055-5159 Tele # 717-691-1147. They have about 60 - 70 different buses that are so treated. RTS,MCI-9,MCI-96/102A3 and others.
The ones we have say "Style 737" without a mfg name anywhere to be found, just that they are made in China.
Mr t__:^)
Those buses used to be available from Universal Coach Parts in case lots (12 to a case) and cost a whole $2.49 each ($29.88 a case). The company I worked for bought a LOAD of them and I did the layout work to have decals made for our company colors (and they turned out a LOT better than those from Pennsylvania....usually those com with side striping ONLY).
Those buses used to be available from Universal Coach Parts in case lots (12 to a case) and cost a whole $2.49 each ($29.88 a case). The company I worked for bought a LOAD of them and I did the layout work to have decals made for our company colors (and they turned out a LOT better than those from Pennsylvania....usually those come with side striping ONLY).
I have seen MC-7's and MC-8's done in the same style and packaging (a plain white box) but these aren't available any more. You might still be able to get MC-9's, 96A3's and MCI Renaissance (102EL3)'s, and I believe Orion 5's.
Are these available at any NYC stores?
As I said, Universal Coach Parts. The place where bus companies go to buy bus parts.
Thanks for the response to my question about headlights but I have not received the kind of answer I requested. I have high regard for DRLs and headlight use during inclement weather but my question, simply put is: even if the bus is equipped with DRLs, should they be operated with all of the lights on all of the time? Most bus drivers have the lights on all of the time. I prefer to use the DRLs during daylight hours and switch to headlights at dusk.
By the way, as a motorcyclist, I ride with high beams on during daylight hours as recommended by experts.
I'm not sure if this answers your question but with the insurance industry the way it is today in our sue happy society, a little check on an accident report indicating lights were on can mean the difference in a lawsuit.
Even in rear end collisions where the bus was hit from the rear, the police ask and check if the vehicle in front has the lights on and mark it off. That's one of the first questions I was asked by both police and my insurance agent in an accident I had was if my lights were on even though it was a bright sunny day. The insurance agent said it does matter.
RDChilds
Long distance charter bus drivers have been running with their headlights on during the day for as long as I can remember. I put in over 20 years on the road as a Tour Escort and all the drivers I rode with observed this practice. In the years before the CB radios came out,bus drivers going in opposite directions would use those lights to signal the presence of radar speed traps down the road. Flashing 3 times meant 3 miles down the road was a trooper.
I think running with lights on in the day is a good practice. It seems to be standard practice at New York Bus Service and Liberty Lines for as long as I can remember. There used to be a company in NYC that transported invalids called MediCab and I know it was a company rule that all drivers including those delivering medical supplies drive with lights on at all times. I also read in Bus World a few years ago the OCTA (Orange County, California) started a lights on during the daytime policy.
Wayne
In Canada it is a standard operating pratice to drive with headlights on. I wish the drivers down here drive with their lights when it rains. It is hard to see the other guy when the skies are gray.
Incidentally, I started turning on my headlights in cloudy weather after I nearly made a left turn (from a stop sign) directly into a beige car that I couldn't distinguish from the beige sidewalk. If I had hit the car it would have been my mistake, but I don't see how it can hurt to help others avoid such mistakes, especially when it's as easy as turning a lever. (Well, my car is red, so it's unlikely to be confused with the sidewalk. But still, headlights can't hurt. Unless I forget to turn them off and come back to a dead battery, as has happened to me more than once.)
The Q55 runs along Myrtle Avenue from Ridgewood but terminates at Lefferts Blvd. in Richmond Hill several miles short of Jamaica. It parks next to what used to be the Richmond Hill LIRR station, although no trains stop there anymore. In fact, if you want to go to Jamaica, you either have to walk six blocks to the J Train 121 St. Station or get on a Q56. This doesn't make much sense.
Other nearby East-West buses running through this section of Queens all go to Jamaica...the Q 54 has a longer run, going from Williamsburg along Metropolitan Av. to Jamaica...the Q 24 has a longer run, going from Bushwick along Atlantic Avenue to Jamaica...and the Q56 has a longer run going from East New York along Jamaica Av. to Jamaica. Plus the Q56 runs below the J tracks most of its run. So anyone near Jamaica Av. can either take the bus or the el to Jamaica.
But if you live near Myrtle Av. and want to go someplace else in Eastern or Southeastern Queens, you have to pay two fares. Because the Q55 terminates in Richmond Hill, you can't get to Springfield Gardens or Little Neck or Bayside or Rosedale on one fare.
Here's an idea. Let the Q55 and Q56 send ALTERNATE buses all the way to Jamiaca. If every OTHER Q55 and Q56 went to Jamaica (and the others terminate in Richmond Hill) it wouldn't cost the TA any more money, manpower or fuel. And folks who live along Jamaica Avenue couldn't complain much since they already have the J train taking them to Jamaica even faster. But if they want the Q56 bus, they'll just have to time their trip to meet the buses that go the full distance. (Overnight we can let all the buses go the full distance since those buses run every 60 minutes. And it would only take a few extra minutes to get to Jamaica since traffic is so light overnight.)
With my idea, if you live along Myrtle Av. you can time your trip so you can go all the way to Jamaica without changing buses and go to other parts of Queens without paying an extra fare.
Craig
The Q 55 seems to have similar 24 hour service as the Q24, Q54 and Q56
Instead off altinating the 55 and 56,why not have the 55 run to Jamaica-168th via Hillside Ave.Techinically there is no bus between Mrytle Ave and Queens Blvd this would be able to make up for that,plus give additional service to the 43 from Suthphin to Merrick at least.It could turn on to Merrick to Archer then from Archer to 168 and stop where the 24 stops.It then can continue back up 168 to Hillside again for the return trip to Ridgewood
I came up with this same idea 25 years ago of extending the Q55 along Hillside Ave. to Jamaica. This would provide direct service from Ridgewood to Jamaica.
The Q55 runs bet Myrtle Wyckoff and Hillside Myrtle,,since when does it terminate at Myrtle and Lefferts
Steve
Hillside Avenue and Jamaica Ave are the cross streets of Myrtle Avenue. Leffetts Blvd is approx 50/100 feet from Myrtle Ave and is the next cross street of Jamaica Ave. going east bound. Also Hillside Ave becomes 117th Street at Myrtle Avenue.
How about an extenstion of the Q-55 to Jamaica Hospital/Van Wyck Expressway returning via Atlantic Ave,Leffetts Blvd,Jamica Ave,Myrtle Ave and regular.
Hi,How are you
I know the area,,,I am a Dispatcher for Citywide and Queens
Steve
FDNY
The destination signs on the Q55 say "Lefferts Blvd." although you're right that the last stop is about a block or two short of Lefferts. I guess the TA uses Lefferts Blvd. as the destination since it runs North-South, while Myrtle Av. runs pretty much East-West...so Lefferts Blvd. is the principal cross street near the terminal. (Jamaica Av. and Hillside Av. also run East-West.)
I suppose when the route was originally set up the true destination was the Richmond Hill LIRR Station (see an older Queens Bus Map). But as I said, the station is closed and no trains stop there anymore. The Sept. '99 bus map has even erased the station names along that line, including "Richmond Hill." The LIRR had been reducing service on the line for the last few decades and ended it altogether a couple of years ago.
That's one more reason why the current destination in Richmond Hill makes no sense and the Q55 should run all the way to Jamaica Center, similar to the Q24, Q54 and Q56.
/
Ride-On's 25th Anniversary is Monday, April 10. 25 cent fares all day, 1 day pas is 1.50. Some ceremony is from 12-2 in Rockville but I'm gonna b stuck in Study Hall, Lunch (w/ assigned seating, i got a messed up school), Science, and Literature classes during all that so I am obviously not going to be there.
(I CLOSED THE TAG THIS TIME!!!)
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO RIDE ON!!!
Can anybody tell me who decides what detour route the X27 takes around the bridge construction in Bay Ridge? Tonight's ride was nothing short of chaos. The detour added 40 minutes to the trip! It could all be avoided by taking the busses out o the construction zone entirely: Have them go to the next exit on the Belt Pkwy and make dropoffs from the "high" end of Shore Road. Since the bridge construction is slated to go on for months, I'd like to see somebody take this bull by the horns.
Can you post the exact routings,,in both directions,please
Steve (thank u)
I'm sorry but I've been out of town - where exactly is this bridge construction - is it on 3rd Avenue???
Unknown to me,where the detours are
The Second Avenue/Ridge blvd bridge over the approach road to the Belt Pkwy (Lief Ericcson Drive) is closed for reconstruction. The X27 leaves the highway at Exit 1 near the Owls Head Sewage treament plant and normally comes up to the light at Wakeman Place and Ridge Blvd. This off-ramp is closed and the traffic coming off Exit one is routed up what was previously an on-ramp to the Belt Pkwy. This means the X27 makes a left on Second Ave on the North side of the closed bridge and proceeds north to 64th Street where it turns right. Thence to Third Avenue where the intersection with 64th Street has only a stop sign...no lights, no cops. (Because of this backup and one idiot driver, I saw an SUV ride the entire length of 64th Street on the sidewalk on Monday.) The bus then turns right on Third Ave and turns left and runs down a temporary "road" built to intersect the Lief Ericcson Drive between Third and Fourth Avenues. It comes up this "road" and turns left again on Third Ave, picking up its normal route. This is tedious, time consuming and unnecessary.
Adding to the picture:
Traffic from Lutheran Medical Center and Brooklyn Army Terminal complex looking to get on the Belt Pkwy on the now-reversed ramp must head for Third Ave. Traffic heading up for the northbound Gowanus must head up 65th Street towards Third. Lader 109 and Engibe 241 respond to fire alarms at the top of the temporary "road". All in all, it is a mess!
Solution: Keep busses with passengers out of the construction area entirely. X27 goes one more exit on the Belt Pkwy to Fourth Ave. Runs Fourth to Marine, left on Marine to Third, left on Third to Shore Road, right on Shore Road. Makes dropoffs in reverse of the normal order, hitting all stops and stays out of the construction zone. People get home sooner, less fuel is burned, drivers have less stress. Seems like a no-brainer.
Lots of responses to my question as to what's better, DRLs or headlights. Most seem to be in favor of headlights on at all times (for safety and insurance reasons). DRLs seem to for those idiots that seemingly never turn their headlights on.
Anybody familiar with an old Cadillac feature, the Twilight Sentinel? Headlights automatically turned on when a sensor went off. I always hoped this feature would become a universal standard. Now DRLs are becoming an industry standard which pleases me. Really! Volkswagen has eliminated the "parking lights" setting on their models and I'm also happy about that. Now if only some company comes out with models where headlights automatically come on when windshield wipers are employed, I'd be one happy camper.
My fondest wish? Fog lights that can only be activated in fog- I mean the atmospheric condition, not the condition that so many motorists seem to be in when they drive.
I believe J.C. Whitney automotive catalog in Illinois sells a module that can be installed on your car that will turn on the headlights when the wipers are activated. I would also like to see auto makers start making cars that activate the 4 way flashers when the transmission is put into reverse. Running a power wire from the back-up lights to the hazard button should not be that costly and would really make it alot more obvious when someone is trying to back into a parking space in traffic. BIG AL
On Monday night was the first time that the CNG's were fueled to 4000psi. All the newer CNG's had new tanks that are able to handle up to 4500psi. Max. This brings the range for these buses up by about 70 miles or so. The older tanks were only fueled to 3000psi. with a max of 3600psi. max. This is I guest is a good sign that the rest of the CNG's are coming. There was one glitch in this is that the new compute program that run the system is running to slow. It was taking about 15 per bus to fuel each bus. The person from the gas company was working on the problem all night. One more thing is that the three RTS's CNG's are out of serive untill they have there tanks replaced with one that can handle 4500psi.
What on comments about this topic. I though this would be good news.
What no comments about this topic. I though this would be good news.
Did they just take those 3 RTS-CNG's out of service? I thought I saw one or two of them this past Saturday. I also noticed a few New Flyer Low Floor CNG's out on Saturday. I guess they are not heeding the no-weekend-service routine, which is good to see.
Does Queens Surface distribute local bus schedules like it does with the express bus schedules? How can one obtain a QS local bus schedule through the internet or on a bus?
call them,,they have new Local and new Express schedules
or visit their web site:
WWW.QSBUS.COM
Q66#384Gary
Or e-mail us at info@qsbus.com ... Diane or Andy will give you a prompt reply.
Mr t__:^)
Problems on the site:
1. It appears they used scanned images of schedules. They can reach into the neighborhood of 2 megabytes. Why not use an text-based schedule instead, or do what the MTA did, make PDF files out of the schedules?
2. Couldn't find any shcedules for routes the Q103 or Q65A.
3. It would help if the route numbers were displayed on the home page. I don't think people would know for example that "Cavalry" meant Q67.
4. (Minor) Title Bar readings differ from the route displayed. For example, the page displaying the Q104 schedule image has a title bar that says "Union Turnpike Express." AFAIK, the Q104 is neither a Union Turnpike route, nor an express route. It should read "Q104Broadway."
I also saw this on the Q65College Point/164th Street, Q101Steinway Street Local, Q66Northern Boulevard, Q101Rikers Island Limited, and Q102Astoria/Roosevelt Island schedules.
QBx1Pelham Bay/Flushing has "New Page 1"
Q25-34Jamaica/CP/WP is OK
I still think it would be better for QS to follow suit with the other operators, and put the schedules on buses.
Well, I think QS still has tons of work to do on the web site. It just opened up a few months ago. Triboro Coach, Green Bus Lines, Command and Jamaica have theirs open for about a year now.
Q60#1148Gary
Q53#2821Gary
BM4#4961Gary
QM21#575Gary
Thank you for the constructive comments, I'll pass them on to one of the suits here. We're moving into the latest technology, maybe a little slower then some on this board think is necessary, but it is happening in ALL parts of the company, e.g. some our our maint. Work Orders are now computer generated ... these are "schedueled" facilities work. My guys do it the old fashion way then I put them into the computer after the fact.
Mr t__:^)
those that remember the RTS that was made by the same place that made the fishbowls that say New York Bus have been found!!
Found many boxes at the transit museum, along with the other rts color. They sell them for $6 but do not sell wholesale, but i dont think there is a limit on how many you can buy.
the transit museum is located in downtown brooklyn. the buses are in the gift shop. get them while you can.
Are these the ban buses or die cast?
B46#5078Mike
they are made from china, the exact company that makes those fishbowls
Where is the Greenwich Village store located? Which TM have these RTS?
BM34x
the store is located at 227 sullivan st. these are the rts designs that i saw:
Triboro Coach
BeeLine
NYC
don't know the price.
Is that by Houston St? Where is that in particular? What subway do I take to get there?
Q46#8357Gary
Do you remember the name of store and possibly the telephone number.....I may be coming into NYC for the Auto Show at the Javits and would like to know the hours that the store is open so that I may take a run down there
When's the Auto show? Last time it was there, I heard bus 8397 was there on display. Wonder if she'll be there again.
M79#5300Gary
I was there last year, and the auto show doesn't have buses. And it's April 22-30 this year.
will try to be there April 22-saturday.
Q46#8357Gary
I just saw the RTS bus @ the TM. It is ok. The New York Bus was sellig a lot quicker than the LA bus. There are new key chains for 3.50........
BM34x
i was about to go back today to the transit museum to get more of the la buses, but the weather changed my plans. guess i will try to get there this week.
I saw these busses too. I might pick up both the NY and LA busses..........
B46M Limited
RIDE ON celebrates its 25th Anniversary with a special program at the Executive Office Building located at 101 Monroe St, Rockville, on April 10, 2000, at 12:00PM to 2:30PM. Join us and Oldies' 100 WBIG. To commemorate this event, RIDE ON's regular fare will be 25˘ and the Regional Day Pass is $1.50 all day on April 10. In addition, a specially painted bus with the 25th Anniversary logo will be in service and will run many different routes for the rest of the year. Passengers boarding the 25th Anniversary Bus will pay only 25˘ for regular fare and $1.50 for Regional Day Pass for the rest of the year.
Besides the Golden Chariot, another oddball bus that I was privileged to charter and ride on was the Beck which was a 40 ft. bi-level coach that looked like the Scenicruiser. There were 3 ways to tell the difference between the 2. First of all the entrance door had 3 pieces of glass as opposed to just 1 for the Scenicruiser. Secondly, the rear window on the Beck had 2 separate pieces of glass as opposed to the 1 wraparound for the Scenicruiser. Thirdly the skylite window which is slanted slightly backward on the Scenicruiser was straight vertical on the Beck.
The book I referred to Yesterday (Modern Intercity Coaches) has a chapter (#2) enttitled "They Fell by the Wayside". It has a picture of the Scenic-cruiser knock off you refer to. Beck tried to diversify out of the bus business in the 50's by purchasing Ahrens-Fox fire engine co. but the whole thing was purchased by Mack Truck around 1956.
The chapter also has a picture of an ICOX-Brill deck and a half as well as the GM Experimental I of 1947 that reall should be named
"King Kong" as well as a chapter on the Flxible VL-100 Flxiliner.
The particular Beck that I chartered and rode on in the early 1960s was owned and operated by Richard Jaeger, a former driver for Starr Transit and later a chief mechanic for Wagner Tours. It was green and white in color. The story of how this coach met its untimely demise is particularly humorous. One weekend Richard made a rest stop on the Thruway en-route home from a charter to Niagara. He ran in to the cafeteria to grab a quick bite and told the service station attendant fo fill the tank with diesel. The attendant, not being familiar with this model coach did not know where the fuel tank was and pumped the diesel into the Rest Room holding tank instead. All this time, one of the passengers was sitting on the throne and dropped a lit cigarette between his legs into the bowl. The entire coach burnt to the ground in minutes with the unlucky passenger suffering third degree burns to his private parts. Needless to say, the lawyers made a lot of money on this one.
Last year the bus festival was held in May.
Will there be a festival this year? I have not received any information from the Transit Museum re a date.
I'm curious about both the Bus Festival and the Hoboken (Try Transit) Festival. Generally, Hoboken attracts a bigger mix of buses, but few in the way of NYCT buses. It was cancelled last year due to the renovations at Hoboken.
-Hank
I just sent an e-mail to NJT asking about Hoboken. If I get a response I'll post on Bus Talk (and sub talk)
In looking at the bus map of Queens, I have noticed fragmented service on some Major streets such as Northern Blvd, Queens Blvd, Woodhaven Blvd, etc. In case of subway outage why is there no complete length service on these streets--these streets have partial service but there are gaps. I am not a bus expert but to me it seems that such routes would be profitable.
Thurston, Mr. mabstoa could you comment
The Q60 runs the entire length of Queens Blvd. Technically, the Q11 does the same on Woodhaven Blvd., although if you count its extension to the south, Cross Bay Blvd., the Q11 does not run the entire distance. I guess Northern Blvd. is just too long to be served by one route, plus you have the Queens Surface vs. NYC TA issue.
I have the same question about Broadway. It is served my the M100 (Inwood to 168th), the M5 (GW Bus Term to 135th), the M4 (168th to 110th), the M104 (125th to 42nd), the M6 (Times Square to South Ferry), the M7 (Times Square to Union Square), the M5 (East Village to Houston Street), and the M1 (East Village to South Ferry). The M60 and M7 from Lincoln Center to Columbus Circle don't count for this. Why doesn't the MTA have a bus running the length of Broadway? Could they at least have a limited running every 15-30 minutes?
Try running a bus 221 blocks. Well, technically more, since broadway slants. And then more, about 50 more after houston.
Besides running a bus that length, assuming the driver has large kidneys, the subway provides pretty good and speedy coverage over that distance, unlike Northern Blvd that has no local service the express service (E,F) is a bypass type.
I counted 45. That was part of my plan of adopting uniform grid based addresses throughout Manhattan.
An earlier thread questioned why there are so many routes serving Broadway in Manhattan.
I think it doesn't make sense for the M100 to leave Broadway for Amsterdam Av. between 125 St. and 168 St. It joins the M101 on Amsterdam Av., another route that's going to turn East on 125 St. And the M101 then continues south to the East Village while the M100 terminates at the end of 125 St. So what do folks on Amsterdam Av. and 125 St. need the M100 for? The M101 does the same job up to 168 St.
The M100 and M5 should switch Avenues. The M100 should follow Broadway down to 125 St...so folks along Upper Broadway can go to stores and offices along 125 St. And the M5 should continue off Riverside Drive going east on 135th St. to Amsterdam. This way, bus riders on Amsterdam have one bus route (M5) that will stay on West Side (till 59 St.) and another bus route (M101) which will go down 125 St and continue on the East Side.
Bus riders on Broadway between 135 St. and 168 St. will also have one bus line (M4) which will go to the East Side (after 110 St.) and another bus route (M100) which will get them to stores, offies and nearly every Manhattan subway line along 125 St.
Craig
The reasons for these seeming irrational routings are historical. The M100 and M101 are former Surface Transit/3d Ave. Railway routes, and were the last trolley lines in Manhattan (converted to bus in 1947). That's why they follow an identical route from 3rd Ave/125 to Amsterdam and 163d - that's the route of the old trolley tracks. The M4 and M5 are old 5th Ave. Coach routes that were always motor buses - and were routed onto Broadway north of 135th Street because there was never a trolley route along Broadway between 125h and 168th Streets. While it's true that old route patterns are a bad excuse for today, it's also true that many significant route changes have been made in Upper Manhattan in past years to accommodate today's pattern - e.g., the M4 routed onto Broadway from 110th Street north instead of 135th, and the extension of the M11 to the State Park at 145th and Riverside Drive.
Thanks for that history Andy.
I guess the route numbers (M100 and M101) also show that these were routes run by the same company...in this case following trolly tracks down Amsterdam and across 125 St.
I often wondered why the Q60 was such a long route...terminating in South Jamaica and not Jamaica Center. After I saw a film of the early days of the 59th St. Br. it turns out this was also an old trolley route, from the days when the 59th St. Bridge had trolley tracks on the outer roadway. Why does it go to South Jamaica? Because that's where the old trolley barn was.
I guess to change a bus route today involves public hearings and imput from city council members...so it's just easier to keep the old routes the same way if no one is making too much of a fuss...even if they don't make sense with today's population patterns.
Craig
<
By the way, anytime someone who knows the history of mass transit in NYC wants to list what bus routes today had been trolley routes, I'd be interested in seeing that...and I'm sure other readers would be as well.
There is indeed a long, involved process for getting a route changed, but if the NYCT planners believe it's worth doing they invest the time.
David
What about limited M4 service? Would it have the same services as the old M5 route? Also, the M101 is already limited on Amsterdam so the limiteds on Amsterdam and the locals on Broadway makes very little sense.
Doesn't the M101 Limited make all stops on Amsterdam? Much to my dismay, it did the one time I rode it that far north, in the winter of 1993-4.
And Craig's proposal eliminates direct bus access from upper Broadway (135th-168th) to the West Side south of 110th.
Not anymore. It may still be on the MTAs web site under service changes.
They just started limited service on Amsterdam......
BM34x
Basically, there are now four routes that cover Broadway. The M6, between South Ferry and 42 Street. The M104, for 42nd to 110. The M4, from 110 to 168. And the M100, from 168th to 207th Street. (I'm excluding overlaps.) To ride from South Ferry to Inwood, one would transfer at the appropriate points. Travel time, including waiting for the buses, would probably be between three and four hours. Using running time as a guideline, one route, from South Ferry to Inwood would be a minimum two hour trip (closer to three). Now add the factor that the longer the bus route, the less likely it will run on time.
Do we really need this route?
Runs infrequently AND the layover at Inwood is long enough for the average late trip to start the next trip on time. Also the drivers would love it! There used to be a route here in DC from DuPont Circle to Montgomery College in Rockville which EVERY driver wanted because they didn't make many round trips.
what does amt of roundtrips have to do with it?
Some bus operators find short routes unattractive because the large number of round trips gets very monotonous very quickly.
Although the M10 was cut because drivers didn't like it...
The M10 was divided into the M10/M10 for the same reason the old M100 was divided into the M100/Bx7 over 10 years ago: The route was unwieldy, unmanageable, and otherwise W-A-Y too long for its own good.
Even where a transfer is required, it's less bad to have passengers take two buses that run semi-reasonably than one bus that's completely unreliable.
Of course, I meant M10/M20.
Sorry about that.
if they did make one, would it be split out of KB and HUD?
Don't forget the Bx7 (168th to 231st) and Bx9 (225th to 262nd). People's trips don't end at 220th Street just because the island* of Manhattan ends there! :-)
Even confined to the Island* of Manhattan, a "Broadway Limited" (Amtrak trademark problem?) would be impossible to schedule. NYCT's bus operators must begin their swings (meal periods) no later than 5 hours, 59 minutes after reporting, and must clear within 5:59 after ending their swings, AND are restricted in how many hours they can spend behind the wheel, AND are restricted in how much a run can pay.
Given all of that, such a route really couldn't exist. Even if it could, it would have to be assigned to Mother Hale, Manhattanville, Amsterdam, or West Side (i.e. with at least 1/3 of the route on one side of the relief point and at most 2/3 of the route on the other side), in order to get the drivers back within the contractual limits.
PLUS, anybody who has ever ridden or driven any vehicle in Manhattan can attest to the vagaries of Manhattan traffic. Such a Super-Route would become VERY unreliable and VERY unmanageable, very quickly.
My personal opinion: take the train for 13-mile intra-Manhattan trips.
* For the purists: Yes, I know that the Borough of Manhattan includes Marble Hill in A.C.718 and Z.C.10463. That's why I specified the Island of Manhattan.
Hi, there; Does anyone have info on the spring pick as to the changes and effective dates?
Brooklyn Spring Pick takes effect 5/21/00. No major changes; no route swaps.
David
Ooh yay that's my birthday! Does anyone know about the Manhattan Division spring pick?
Manhattan, Bronx, Staten Island and Brooklyn division picks go into effect on May 21. No depot changes or new routes, but many service increases. Queens pick goes into effect on April 30.
Do you know when they start picking for the pick? (Man BX Bkl SI)
Picking starts May 1st. Pick effective May 21
For the Brooklyn division
MTA Roster has been updated. Needs work but is viewable. This is the current operating MTA roster. Storage, scrap and o/s to come soon. It'll be completely finished either by end of this month or by 1st week of May. Please be patient, I'll update it when I can. Thanks. ENJOY!
http://www.geocities.com/smoke228/MTANYCTMABSTOA.html
(CASE SENSITIVE! type in exact way u see it!)
Q46#8357Gary
Good roster, but isn't this a carbon copy of Glenn Rowe's and Mark Holmes Roster? Looks like it!
R142 Boi 2K
It's similar but a lot of changes have and will be made! It may look the same but it's not. Everybody has a different way of doing things.
Like I said, I still have lots of work left to do on it and it is very time consuming. Right now with my Finals right around the corner, my time is very limited. And it's in different style. Blue wallpaper and white lettering. Glenn's is in black and white. And his is in different order than mine SOOOOOOOOOOOO........ Patience my friend, it will look different than all the others. Here's what it'll look like:
Active Running Roster
Description of Buses -year and models
Out of service/storage yards/ recently scrapped buses
Museum for each depot
Long time Scrap
What's to come
Q46#4933Gary
Gary, dude, what are you doing man?? 631-680 as hybrids????? Did I read that right? You can't be serious. Do your homework, man. You're giving us bus roster guys a bad name. You know who this is, dude. Just check out the e-mail address. Before you embarass yourself and post that, take your time and make sure that the stuff is accurate.
Your effort is appreciated, but it's back to the drawing board. I would be more than happy to send you a copy of my roster. Oh and by the way the TA Remans were done by 207th Street and not ENY.
OK, roster has been fixed! Sorry for the mis-information! I'm new to the roster game! And I need help so if you wish to email me your version of your roster, I'd really apprecaite it. Thanks!
Q46#8357Gary
Also forgot to aask something: 400-680 (eliminating 581-610 cause they're CNG) they ound different. What type of engine do they have? They sound like hybrids that's the reason why I put them that way.
Q26#6132Gary
Today I spotted a unmarked MCI DL3 Cruiser at 40th Street & 9th Avenue. It had a Luminator MEGA:MAX 3000 LED Head sign and no bathroom, much like the TA's cruisers. Also the bus was numbered 1965 and had a small Cummins logo on the driver's side over the rear two axles.
If anyone else has seen this bus around downtown today? Could someone tell me what this is?
R142 Boi 2K
I understand that a GM artic will be traveling thru NY soon. Anybody know anything about this?
A couple of weeks ago someone made a post about this. The person had purchased a GMDD Articulated TA60102N from one of the Canadian that used them and was driving the coach back to CA. There were 53 of these buses built in 1982. They're 60 feet long by 102 inches with Detroit Diesel 8V-71N engines. Even though they're new look buses - they introduced a new front end (to gain a wider entrance) which also is the same front end used on the Classic which was introduced a year later.
Wayne
I saw #5076 and #5078 in the last 2 days running on the B1 lnie, which is a good sign for Ulmer Park getting newer NOVABUS for their local service, but i also saw #5102 on the B49 line. I know Ulmer Park is getting 50 nova's, but what numbers are they getting, or is there list smaller?
Also, saw #4302,#4120,and #4136 on the B41 line. Guess 126th and WestSide got rid of a few buses and sent them to Brooklyn.
Ulmer Park and Flatbush are splitting the 1999 NovaBUS RTS-06 ZF Transmission buses from Gun Hill which are 5075-5124. So expect to see more the ZF RTS operating in Brooklyn between now and the next pick. Lucky idiots in Brooklyn, they better take care of these buses. These buses are a hot commodity. Just like the Cummins powered RTS & Orion V!
R142 Boi 2K
I rode one no the B64, boy did th bus buck alot. The drivers told me he dose not like them becouse od this. They also have only a three botton shift, witch meens they can not lock down into a lower gear in bad weather.
Hey!!!!!! Im glad that we are getting fast busses. In a depot where it is needed most, FLATBUSH!!!!!! The boro three busiest routes run out there and need all the help they can get........
UP needs some new buses in the depot as well......
What to the 5200's that were supposed to go to UP?
B46M Limited
I meant to say "What happened to the 5200's that were supposed to go to UP????"
B46M Limited
i just saw #5079 on the B1 today. looks good. however, riding on #3725 on the B1 reminded me on how BAD the 3700's series from Ulmer park have become. hope they get more new buses soon.
Finally, they have come to the BUSH.......
BM34x
Saw the April edition of Transit Transit on LI channel 71 last night, they moved the channels all around so 80 is now 71.
This month's theme is the enviornment, and more specifically Earth Day.
- Alternate fuled buses/enviornment:
-- Artriculated ... well their are more folks in it, but same old fuel
-- Hybrid, i.e. diesel/elect, 5 here, 10 more to come
-- Fuel Cell bus that exhausts water, report from CRT at Chicago
-- Gun Hill depot, solar pannels on the roof
-- Also a piece about a guy who makes peddle/elect cars in his garage
-- Larry Reuter comes out of his office & talks about how a subway pollutes less then a bunch of cars
- GST ... shots of their reporter sampling food from many vendors
- Cleaning underground:
-- Hosing down the stations
-- Hosing down the tracks & tunnel ... to remove steel dust
-- Vaccum Train a few shots of it sucking
- R-142 being tested on Dyre Ave line (that's a new subway car for you non-subway buffs)
- Irish from the TA, Liberty Lines & Queens Surface march on St. Pat's
It's a piece of how this newly formed group came to be.
Check the TA web site to find a station in your area to view this & enjoy the 1/2 hour.
BTW, Trainland/TrainWorld also does a monthly piece on this same Public Access channel.
Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with the prod. of Transit Transit.
Mr t__:^)
Great preview! Can't wait to see it on Saturday. (@ 3:30 PM on WNYE-25)
Ive just seen on CH. 67 BCAT. It was a good show. I want to ride the Hybrid so bad......
BM34x
I was riding the B103 today when it crossed over cortelyou rd. and east 19th where there is a command bus stop and local stop there is the B23, BM1,2,3,4,and the BM25. at first i thougt it was the BM2S route till i remenbered where that ran. So what is the BM25 where is it what happened to it who ran it and where did it run?
You are thinking of the Command Route BM 2S which runs from Starrett City to Manhattan from Starrett City via Seaview Ave,Pennsylvina Ave,Flatlands Ave ,East 80th Street then via the BM 2 Canarsie Express to Manhattan.
Hope this helps you
oh so that is what it was i saw OBTW, it was the BQM bus i got it mixed uyp with not the BM2S. I always thought there was a BM25.oh well. thanks
While we're at it, I saw a BM15 sign on Bay Ridge Parkway on the same sign as a B4 (standard blue sign with bus picture, not the new type). Is this the old Metro Apple route? When did it quit that it's still in good condition on a sign still indicating a bus stop?
At about 2:30 this afternoon, I observed Long Island Bus #244 (CNG Orion) in the Bronx. It traveled south on the Hutchinson River Parkway service road, then east on Lafayette Avenue (toward Tremont Avenue).
A few minutes earlier, a different LIB CNG Orion had come north from the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge, then west on Lafayette Avenue, following part of the Q44 route.
Does anybody have any idea as to what might have been going on?
MTA-Long Island Bus sends there Orion V/CNGs to the Cummins-Onan Dealer over in Bronx under the Cross Bronx-Bruckner Junction. At any given time you could see a MTA-LI Bus or a Command TMC-RTS-06 over there.
R142 Boi 2K
There a shop on Zerega Av can't remember the name & i seen couple LI Buses & Comm. Buses. Also couple block down the street there is a building already up & that building is for CMF for MTA.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
I just stated that 40 minutes in front of you!
R142 Boi 2K
You'll find a lot of that here!
Just like when someone asks how to get somewhere on public transit. You'll have 40 posts all saying the same exact thing!
Kinda discourages me from posting anything except for something I KNOW and then still someone else comes along to repeat it!
Visit my webpage with 400 more useless pictures added this week, also debuting this week, MTA logo toothbrushes and shoehorns for sale!
I happen to be on of the "400 useless webpage" aka TransiTALK"and it bothers me to hear that. Those of us who has the sites work hard on it for those that don't have a look into the bus part of the TA. But I'll leave that alone.
Thank you for the response.
R142 Boi 2K aka Trevor Logan Junior
Didn't say anything about any specific web sites, is your conscience bothering you or something?
BTW 11 new runs are being added to the m1 starting the next pick.
May 21, 2000
Lake Charter Service Inc. runs 2 daily commuter buses between Lakewood, NJ and Boro Park in Brooklyn. They enter Brooklyn via the VZ bridge exiting the BQE at Fort Hamilton Parkway. They then follow Fort Hamilton Parkway to 50th St; make a right turn on 50th St. making all local stops to 18th Ave. At 18th Ave. they make a left for 2 blocks to 48th St; then right on 48th St. to 19th Ave for 1 block; left on 19th Ave to 47th St. and right on 47th St to Macdonald Ave. where the run terminates. They lay over at a gas station on Macdonald Ave. between Foster & Ave. I. In the PM, the reverse route is 47th St. to 18th Ave. to 49th St. making all local stops to Fort Hamilton Parkway; left on Fort Hamilton Parkway back to the BQE entrance towards the VZ Bridge. They use 2 coaches that were purchased from Oak Tree Bus Service of Metuchen, N.J. and still have the red & yellow Oak Tree colors. One is an MC9 and the other a GMC 4905. Both are 49 Pax with Lavatory. The company is Russian owned.
Saw her yesterday on the B44. Her days are numbered. If you have a chance, take a pic or better yet, ride the bus.......
BM34x
Someone send me a email early today i think he a B/O at 126th St Depot & telling me that GMC-RTS #2611 does not have Interlock. He said that bus ride like hell after the back door close. I really want to take one more picture before GMC-RTS #2611 retired. By the way #2611 is the only 22xx to 27xx bus currently running at Flatbush Depot in Brooklyn.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
Not only 2611 is the last 2200-2700 bus running at FLA, but it's the last local 1982 RTS on the road (besides the remans). Hope she goes into a museum for preservation. Would like to see that.
Q32#2611Gary
(I remember when HP had her!)
I would love to save this bus as a historical bus for the NYCTA. If someone would like to take the time and energy to inquire about this bus and get back to me, I would appreciate it. I will be in the area in the middle of next month and would love to drive it home also with the artic from Mississaga transit
2611 is a 1982 GMC RTS that currently runs out of FLA depot in Brooklyn. I've heard she's been on the road a lot recently so I hope that you get her. She also had hard blue seats in the interior and tinted side windows. Good luck!
Q32#2611Gary
You mean it doesn't have a modified interlock.
Here in Los Angeles the GMC RTS 04's from 1981 are becoming rarer by the day. LACMTA also bought 13 used GMC RTS 03's and i saw them at the auction lot yesterday in a sad state of affairs.
Does anyone remember a commuter bus service that operated, perhaps 20 years ago for employees of the Readers Digest in Pleasantville, N.Y. There were 3 old Fishbowl transits, 35 footers with no AC on the line. The name on the buses was Community Transit. I think they went out of business sometime in the early or mid 1980s.
I need a complete set of curtains for a fishbowl from WMATA or DCTransit. I am almost finished with the restoration of 6342 (TDH 5304 serial 222) back into the DCTransit scheme when new and the destination signs are the last thing I need. I have the entire assy. but need the curtains only.
Anyone who wishes to find out information on the Los
Angeles MTA is welcome to hassle me for info as I am in
the trenches daily with a style modeled after the NYC fan
mentality of which I so adore. I also do alot of photo
trading for those interested. You can email me at
Methanol1@webtv.net for further info.I just ask for bus
fleet requests as the "Metro Rail" system is of little or
no interest of mine.THANKS!-M1
I am looking for shots of the NY MTA 9140's with the Cummins engines as I am loking for the Z-F equipped units. I have shots of LACMTA's Cummis testbed TMC RTS 06 #1422 which is the only LACMTA bus with Alcoa rims. Please email me at Methanol1@webtv.net for further info. Thanks-M1
Here are photos of 9143 and 9148.
9143
9148
R142 Boi 2K
I saw a couple of weeks ago on the B52 @ Fulton and Adams. What engine is inside of her?
B46#5102Mike
In buses #9140-9149 are 10.8L Cummins M11-280E Celect, 280 Horsepower Engines coupled to Allison ATEC VR-731, 3 Speed Automatic Transmissions.
R142 Boi 2K
And do some of them sound awful! LOL
The fine sounding and powerful Cummins M-11 powers the 9140's of NY MTA. Thank you.-M1
Yesterday:
I saw #4836 on the Q32. It was showing the Amsterdam Depot decal. Since when do Q32 buses run out of Amsterdam?
A few minutes later, I saw #7556 on the Q32. It was showing the 100th Street Depot Decal. It had a red apple in the middle with the front of a bus drawn inside the apple.
I also saw GBL #1145 running on the Q60. The front sign was stuck on
while the side sign said:
Evidence of former service on QS's Q101R route.
BTW, the rear sign was blank.
Today:
I saw 522 on the Q32.
I saw #8514 on the Q32. It had a blue rear sign. I saw the blue lights from between the ties of the #7 line tracks.
Saw #228 on the Q15. The side sign showed a typo. Instead of saying Q15 MAIN ST STA, it said Q15 MAIN STS STA.
That's all.
It's just that 277 isn't happy with her new stripes, yet, i.e 1145.
Otherwise I'm sure it was a load of happy customers :-)
Mr t
I happened to ride this bus yesterday on the Q60. 1145 is NOT former QS 277. It's former QS 279 and there's evidence inside the bus that she was that. Before 279 left QS, the 7 in the interior number was hand-drawn in what looks to be a pen. That "7" is still there on 1145 now. Rides pretty good though. I saw 1146 (EX QS 278) today on the Q11 with a QM24 rear sign. Looks like they programed the GAR off that bus. Now all they got to fix is 1149 (EX-QS 275).
Q60#1148Gary
I saw 109 a while back with a bad typo:
CHURST
That's all the front of the bus said and I believe the rear sign said Q76.
Q46#8357Gary
Saw 721 and 722 on QM18 with working signs. 1147 was in action on the Q60. Still haven't seen 1143 or 5545-5550 yet-heard they're still being worked on. And the 1000s still won't die- saw 1003 1006 1009 1012 and 1013 on the Q10/Q37. Guess GBL is that desperate for service. It's about time, they've needed more buses for a long time now-they finally got it.
Q60#1148Gary
YES GO 1979 GMC RTS-03 1000 SERIES! Goes to show you that the RTS is still a better built bus!
R142 Boi 2K
Exactly!!! But, I was on a RTS on the Q60 today that looked like she went through a war. I was on 655 (ex command 366) and there were 5 slashed seats- 3 were so severe that the material padding was coming out of the seat. Also, where the interior number is, there were lots of black spots that were on it. And the aisles are extremely narrow. Rode pretty good though, can;t complain there. Also a note from the MTA side: 9169 out of FP, number on driver side has been whited out. Be on the lookout!!!
Q60#1148Gary
Q58#9141Gary
does any-one have any greyhound bus stories to post good and bad ? Like cross country travel on the dog !
thats what i call travel on the greyhound ( the dog ! ).. !!
QUESTION AGAIN.........anyone have any greyhound cross country experences out there ??
I was on Academy's Hoboken to Port Authority route several times in the past few weeks, and was pleased that the two ex-TA buses I rode (#75 with soft seats and #84 with hard seats) seemed to be running very well. Although the windows are the same scratched up ones from the TA, the rest of each bus seemed to be in good shape and quite clean. I suspect Academy will keep running them for some time to come. So when TA #2611 finally bites the dust, come on over to Academy and ride a 1982 RTS for only $1.25 (through the Lincoln Tunnel) or $1.00 (local in Hoboken).
I was walking around Hoboken earlier today and caught a few glimpses at the Academy bus garage (I also ride the buses in that area from time to time, today was one of them). There appear to be a lot of RTSs in the lot. Most of them I guess are the ones purchased by NJ Transit (the 1000's). There are also about 20 ex-NYCTA buses which seem to be used exclusively on the HOB-PABT route.
There are also early model RTS's which I think are second-hand.
I also saw some short (35') RTS's, which I've never seen on the #22 or New York route - where are those buses used?
Academy also has a few Flxible Metro B's (from NJ Transit) and they even have at least one ex-TA 870 left - #2061, which I was on today. It has the hard blue TA seats, 2-1 config.
There are also a couple Academy MCI's sneaking around Hoboken. Are they used for local service?
Academy uses MCI Cruisers on a Hoboken - Lincoln Harbor weekday run that is available only to Paine Webber employees. I haven't seen any of those 35 foot RTS buses. Academy and/or its affiliates provide some contract service at Newark Airport so, perhaps, the 35 footers are used there. I have not seen any of the ex-TA RTS's anywhere but on the Hoboken-PABT (Red Apple) route, but I have noticed more of Academy's other buses on that route also in recent weeks, e.g., new 1000 series RTS's, Flxible 3000's, and an occasional Flxible 2000.
Something very strange happened to me while riding the bus yesterday. I was on an N70 heading toward Hempstead in late afternoon (after 4pm)
and saw that I could transfer to the N24 in Uniondale to get to Roosevelt Field on the schedule. So I saw an N24 to Jamaica (which runs from Uniondale in rush hours) waiting to make a left onto Hempstead turnpike. So I got off at the bus stop by Earle Ovington Blvd and saw the N24 bus coming. Well I flagged it down but it never stopped! The sign said the N24 stops there and I could transfer but
it never stopped! The next bus came 10 minutes later and did stop, but the transfer wouldn't work (it popped out of farebox saying wrong bus).
I told the driver what happened and he said that you can't make a transfer from the N70 to the N24, but on the schedule it says it's a valid transfer. He did let me stay on to Roosevelt Field but continued to say it was not a valid transfer even though the schedule says it is.
Anybody know what's going on?
I don't understand. In LIBus transfers only work between certain busses?
LI Bus transfers are only valid for routes that intersect and travel in the same general direction with no stopovers or round trips.
Valid transfer points and routes are listed on the bus schedule.
Do you think the same thing would happen if you use MetroCard? Except for a few similar routes, MetroCard has done away with so many of the complicated bus transfer rules we had in the past with. With MetroCard, you can get a second ride within an hour, even if the two bus lines are no where near each other.
Do many people on Long Island use MetroCard for the buses (if they're not going into Queens to catch a subway connection)?
Is your fare $1.50? If so, you'd get the same discount (a free ride when you put $15 on the card) as NYC bus and subway riders get.
It probably would happen with a Metrocard because the paper transfer has the same code on it as the code that is put on a Metrocard, isn't it(with the exception of bus to subway)? With LI Bus transfers are good for two hours for two additional bus routes. And I have seen people have been short when they've used up the remaining $1.50 on their Metrocard when the transfer bus says the card is empty and the transfer isn't accepted. At least with change you're not automatically charged another $1.50. One time I was with a group of other passengers transfering using Metrocards and I had a paper transfer and none worked. The driver had to admit then there was a problem!
Alot of people do use Metrocard. I don't because I have a special half-fare card (leisure pass) that is excepted on LI Bus so I pay 75c (10 cents transfer) instead of full fare.
Besides I have plenty of change laying around to get rid of!
I have two suggestions:
One: If the schedule says you should get a transfer & you don't, complain to the LI Bus Garden City office ... the "table" may have an erro in it.
Two: If you realy want that transfer for a special trip, buy a "Fun Pass" for $4. Last year I used one to travel from Main Street Flushing, Times Square, Far Rockaway, then two LI Bus segments, i.e. N33 and N15 all on my $4 MC.
Mr t__:^)
I dod something similar to that once.
I got off an F train in Jamaica, transferred to an N6, took it to Hempstead, transfered to an N31, took it to Far Rockaway, and took the A train from there.
Yes, but the N33 is much more scenic then the N31 ;-)
I am hopeing to do it again this year on a non-rainy day and maybe play a little volley ball at Long Beach with some Bus/SubTalkers ... or at the very least get our toes wet before the sun sets.
Mr t__:^)
The bus driver was wrong you should have been able to transfer from a N70 to a N24. It is possible that the trip code that the bus driver was using (either on the N70 bus or the N24 bus) was the wrong one. The transfer policy for paper transfers is basically the same as that for Metrocards. The Metrocards that use the last $1.50 should allow transfers just like any other Metrocard. If the Metrocard is used in "split-fare" mode(it has less than $1.50 on it) then you must pay the additional amount to equal $1.50 and $0.25 for a transfer.
Also you won't get the LAST transfer off a MetroCard ... this appears to be some kind of a design error that THEY aren't paying much attention to.
This squeaky wheel got them to admit that the fare box wants to charge the first off-peek cash customer to board one of the Queens "privates" 1.50 vs. one dollar. Our drivers have been dumping the cash as a short fare ... after all the customer knows it's off-peek ! Now we have to wait for the next software update for it to be fixed.
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by this writer don't necessarily reflect those of his employeer, nycDOT or the MTA.
Mr t__:^)
i have seen a model of this bus before ..however this museum beauty with original restored greyhound
paint and design was a real treat to see parked right along with the rest of them a 1959 geryhound bus !!
right here in the los angeles greyhound bus terminal
What was it a PD-4104??
i dont know but it reminded me of those old gm city type buses with white light screw in bulbs type lights....
( before the days of florescent lights ) ........
This model in question is probably either the "Worlsd Fair" or regular greyhound Corgi's-M1
By the time that Ave. B closed its doors, it operated 7 routes. (The company started with only 2 routes)
M7... Wall street Express
M8... Grand Street Crosstown
M9... Union Square - City Hall
M10.. Express Service
MN20.. Yonkers Race Track
MQ20.. Aqueduct Race Track
MN21.. Belmont Race Track
All were discontinued except the M9, this was kept by the MTA.
Ave. B's M-8 was never the 8th Street Crosstown route (operated by New York City Omnibus). And it is not to be confused with todays M-8.
Todays M-8 was originally route 13 of NYCO and later MaBSTOA's route 13.
Ave. B's M10 was not the same as the route of NYCO 8th Ave. or Fifth Avenue's #10 Broadway -- this was short lived route.
What about the modern M7 and M10?
Didn't the M7 at the Ave B & E.Bdwy become the X90 or x92
I don't know, but was the modern M7 called? or the modern M10 (which included the M20)?
The current M7 and M10+M20 were once New York Omnibus Corp. #7 and #10, respectively.
So there was conflict between those and AB&B routes?
Sorry, AB&EB.
It would probably resemble the X92. ......
B46M Limited
Wasn't the M8 continued by the MTA for a few years? I remember riding it once and I'm pretty sure it was after the MTA takeover. It was, shall we say, empty.
Actually, the old M8 (Grand Street) did live a little longer under NYCT/MaBSTOA operation.
As for the old M7, it became the "original" X90 (from 110th & 5th Av), which never carried a whole lot of people.
I have a Manhattan bus map from the 70's stored away someplace, and the M8 was still in operation then as the Grand Street crosstown route. I guess we all forget how so much of New York's population was downtown originally. By the 70's the M8 was only operating from morning till early evening and ran only every 30 minutes. I don't believe it ran on Sundays.
If you look at a modern Manhattan bus map, you can see there is a pretty big gap for crosstown service between the M21 (Madison/Chambers St.) and the M23 (Houston St). But I guess the original M8 had few riders at the end...and I'm sure it got caught between delays leading to the Holland Tunnel and delays leading to the Manhattan Bridge.
Logic would say there should be some sort of crosstown bus today on Canal St...with Chinatown's large population. But I'm sure with the delays leading to the Holland Tunnel and Manhattan Bridge, it would be faster to walk.
Craig
The M22 is Madison/Chambers, the M21 is Houston. AND the M23 is (obviously) 23rd Street. The modern M8 is Eighth Street (along with 9 and Christopher).
The M22 was formally M1 Madison St Chambers and is from the TA's 126 Street depot. This conflicts with the M1 Madison Ave. As you can tell the residents of Madsion Street had a new route number. The only place where the two lines met was at Foley Square (at the old Worth Street IRT Local station) and at Park Row.
The M22-Madison Street was shifted from 126th (TA) to Hudson (OA) a few years ago.
At the time the M8 Grand Street route was running, there was no M23. The 23rd Street crosstown was the M26, IIRC. Most of the crosstown routes were renumbered 10-15 years ago.
Who remembers the old M103? That used to be one of my favorites, for no particular reason.
Wasnt the old M103 the 57St crosstown???????
B46M Limited
Old M103 was 59th Street Crosstown. Old M28 was 57th Street.
But the M57 took over the M103's run up West End. Which, I suppose, was my favorite part, so I can still do it today.
I was never terribly fond of the M106.
How about the days when there were 3 Number 1 Busses in Manhatten, can anybody remember what they were?
Three #1's:
Fifth Av Coach #1: Fifth Av main line
N.Y. Omnibus Corp. #1: Fourth/Madison Avenues
Comprehensive Omnibus M1: Madison Street
Thanks for the information, but he was talking about the modern map, where these strange old rules no longer apply.
The original 23rd Street Crosstown, as operated by New York City Omnibus (NYCO), was the route 15.
When MaBSTOA came into been, it remained the route 15. Till years later when it was renumbered.
Under MaBSTOA, it ran out of the 54th Street Depot along with route 15, the Jackson Heights Line.
The old M103, also a favorite of mine along with the M106 (42nd Street Crosstown), were originally operated by Surface Transit before 1962. When MaBSTOA took over these two routes they were transferred to 54th Street Depot.
(The 103 ran west on 61st Street till Second Avenue, then on 60th Street till 5th Avenue, then on 59th Street till West End Avenue, North till 72nd Street and Broadway, around 73rd, south on West End till 59th Street, then east till York Avenue, then north till 61st Street.)
The 49th and 50th Street Crosstown was originally the M-3, operated by NYCTA and not MaBSTOA and based at their 125th Street Depot, the original depot for Eastside and Comprehensive Omnibus.
How did it get around the Coliseum? And isn't 59th one way from Columbus to West End?
At the time, 59th was 2-way west of Columbus.
The old M103 operated as follows:
West from 61st/York via 61st, left 2nd Av, right 60th, left Grand Army Plaza, right 59th, right Columbus Circle, right Broadway, left 60th, left Columbus Av, right 59th, right West End, right 72nd, left Broadway, to stand.
East from Broadway/72nd via Broadway, U-turn at 73rd, Broadway, right 72nd, left West End, left 58th, left 8th Av, right Columbus Circle, right 59th, left York, left 61st, to stand.
And there was a bus stop on the really short block of 8th Avenue between 58th and Columbus Circle, which the bus approached from a left turn. I think the SB M7 also stopped there back when it continued down Columbus south of 72nd, at least when it ran across 59th from Columbus Circle to 7th (at times it just continued across 58th; I quickly lost track of the service changes).
I made a mistake in saying "M23." You're right, the 23 St. Crosstown bus was the M26 till the 80's when nearly all the crosstown buses were renamed for the streets they travel.
I meant the M21, Houston St. Crosstown. As I was saying, the current map of crosstown buses shows the gap between the M21 and the M22 (Madison/Chambers St. Crosstown). You can see that there must have been a crosstown bus at one time in the Grand St./Canal St. area, even though what had been the M8 was discontinued some 25 years ago.
I suppose since it's been about 25 years since there was an M8, the MTA decided to discontinue what some riders must think was the unlucky M13. It was renamed the M8, even though it only travels a few blocks on Eighth Street. It spends more time on Ninth and Tenth Streets. However M8 was the only route number available since M9 and M10 are already taken.
The old M106 which had been the route number for the 42nd St. Crosstown bus has resurfaced as the crosstown bus serving East (but not West) 106 St.
Craig
]
Remember the M12? I barely remember this service as a very young boy in the early seventies. You are right that downtown bus service is woefully inadequate and perhaps a study would reveal a revival of some sort of downtown crosstown hybrid service.
Other revived route numbers (i.e., route numbers that were changed and then revived elsewhere) are M18 (the old M18 is now the M86; the current M18 is a variant of one of two branches of the former M3), M103 (now running on Lex and 3rd), and M20 (the old M20 is now the M116; the current M20 is half of the old M10).
When I was young I wondered about the missing M12 and M105. What was the M12, the Delancey Street crosstown? Was there ever an M105?
M-12 Spring-Broome and Delancey Sts X town M105-10th Ave. Still none could answer the 3 1 Lines in Manhatten
The three "1" routes were as follows:
#1-5th Avenue-operated by 5th Avenue Coach later merged into item #2
#2-Madison/Park Avenue-operated by NY Ominbus later taken over by 5th Avenue . Merged with item #1 and is the current M1 route operated by MABSTOA out of Mother Hale Depot
#3-Madison/Chambers Street-operated by East Side/Comphensive later designated M-1 after being taken over by the City. Redesignated M-22 in 1974.
Hopes this helps
Thank You
Ave B had hope for an extension of their M9 route from 15th Street and Park Ave South to 42nd Street (and ?). All the newer GM's had this reading on their roll sign.
M9 run beyond Chatham Square south to City Hall/Park Row during the business day, and had a another branch to Madison Street towards Grand Street. People would not read the roll sign and had to walk 5 blocks to Chatham Square.
I think there is 34St destination for the M9 on the RTS....
B46M Limited
The "M9 34 ST-1 AV" reading, like so very many others, is merely an allowance for something which may or may not happen.
Some others out there include the following:
Bx7 YONKERS
Bx7 LIMITED / YONKERS
Bx10 YONKERS
Bx34 MT VERNON
Now that I would like to see, a NYCT bus terminate in another city.... I know the Q113 run in LI but it does not terminate there..........
B46M Limited
As someone mentioned in a recent post, the Q5 and Q85 run into Valley Stream in Nassau County (Green Acres Shopping Center) and terminate there.
But Valley Stream is a village in the town of Hempstead. If busses were run into Mount Vernon or Yonkers, they would run into other CITIES.
I think you took SubBus's message too literally. I don't think the Q113 runs through any cities.
I will broaden your inquiry to "outside of NYC":
Bx16 (Mundy Lane branch): Last stop on Mundy Lane at Pitman Avenue, Bronx; first stop on Sandford Blvd at South 11th Avenue, Mount Vernon.
Bx16 (Ropes Avenue branch): Ropes Avenue at Boston Road, Bronx (about 50 feet from border with Pelham). [Okay, it's close, but no cigar.]
Q5, Q85: Green Acres Shopping Center (Village of Valley Stream, Town of Hempstead)
Q46: L.I.Jewish Medical Center (Village of Lake Success, Town of Hempstead) [The border cuts through one or more of the LIJ buildings. Q46 buses terminate at the parking deck just in from Lakeville Road.]
BTW: Q113 is a NYCDOT route, operated by Jamaica Buses, Inc.
Thanks for the clarification. I should have stated the question better........
B46M Limited
How many Race Track runs does Command still operate. To which tracks and what are the Route numbers for each ?
They run to Yonkers, Aqueduct, Belmont and the Meadowlands.
CommandBus.com will have more information, the homepage lists the routes and theres a guide with maps and schedules.
I think the BQ10 and BQ11 goes to Aqueduct. I saw the BQ11 at Linden and Penn returning from Aqueduct yesterday.....
B46M Limited
When I was still living in the city, I remember New York Bus Service advertising Summer bus service to Saratoga Raceway during their season. Is this service still in operation ? If the service was discontinued, when was the last time it operated ? It would be hard to imagine in this day and age people traveling that great a distance without a rest room on board, and I know that NYBS has no lavatory equipped coaches.
KING SOLOMON
When I lived in the Great Kills section of Staten Island, we were served by 2 TA express lines. One was the 13X and the other the 11X. Both started from Richmond Ave. & Arthur Kill Road. The 13X ran all day. The 11X ran on Giffords Lane which was much closer to my house, but it only ran during rush hours. Is this still the case or does the 11X also run all day now ?
A lot has changed since those days.
What you remember as the X9/X11/X13 (3 routes with 23 variations) are now nine distinct routes, numbered X1 through X9, each with its own routing. Hylan Blvd is divided into an "inner" zone (New Dorp to the Bridge) and an "outer" zone (New Dorp to Richmond Av), and some branches "bypass" lower Manhattan. X1 operates all day, every day. X2 thru X9 are rush hour, rush-direction only.
X1: 7-day service fron Arthur Kill & Richmond to Central Park South & 6th Av. All stops on Hylan Blvd and on Bway/5th/6th.
X2: Hylan inner zone, East Side bypass
X3: Hylan inner zone, downtown loop
X4: Hylan outer zone, downtown loop
X5: Hylan outer zone, East Side bypass
X6: Hylan outer zone, West Side bypass
X7: Great Kills & outer zone, West Side bypass
X8: Great Kills & outer zone, downtown via Water St
X9: Hylan inner zone, West Side bypass
X1 uses Church St and 6th Av in, 5th Av and Broadway out
X6, X7, X9 use 6th Av in, 5th Av out, West St to bypass
X2, X5 use Madison in, Lexington out, FDR Drive to bypass.
X3, X4 use one-way loop via Trinity (PM start at Rector), Church, Murray, North End, Vesey (AM end at World Financial Center), West, into tunnel.
Also, the X11 and X13 numbers have been revived:
X11: former Travis-Downtown branch of X10
X13: former Downtown (Worth St) branch of X14
Which one of these routes follows the old 11X route (Hylan Blvd. to Nelson Ave. to Amboy Road, to Giffords Lane to Arthur Kill Rd. to Richmond Ave.) on Staten Island.
The x7 and x8 follow this route, with a minor variation. Instead of taking Arthur Kill to Giffords Lane, they use Armstrong Ave to Leverett Ave to Giffords Lane. It then follows the old route.
-Hank
Does anybody know the highest bus route number in the U.S.?
The highest of which I'm aware is Maryland MTA #991.
Does anybody know the highest bus route number in the
U.S.?
The highest of which I'm aware is Maryland MTA #991.
I think the highest in NYC is the M116.
What's the highest numbered NJT route?
The highest NJ Transit route number is #989, which is a Wheels route (commuter mini-bus service) that runs between Hillsborough and Bedminster. All the 800 and 900 series are Wheels routes.
NJT's highest number for a regular bus route is the #780 between Passaic and Englewood.
Now that I think about it, I think the MTA has a 995. Double check that before you go aroud saying it.
That's a unit number, it's not a route. And there are unit numbers in the 9000s. Other agencies have 5 digit unit numbers.
It is a route number. It is the I-95 Flyer. To confirm its existance, here is the text from mtamaryland.com:
NO. 995 - I-95 FLYER
COLUMBIA TO WASHINGTON
VIA I-95 - FLYER SERVICE TO
Capitol, Farragut Square
(Monday - Friday)
On Saturday, I was on GBL #653 (Formerly Triboro #M-5) with my mom. I told my mom that the bus we were on was formerly Triboro Methanol powered bus #M-5. She then wonders where I get all this stuff [knowledge about that bus] from. If you look carefully at the front of the bus (inside), you can still see the "tan line" (I don't have a better way to describe it) of the bus's former number, M-5, where 653 is now.
This leads me to as question: Why am I seeing fewer and fewer Methanol (CH3OH) powered buses? Is it because of a problem? If it is, what's the problem?
The fuel has show to be very corrosive. So that's why everyone that used the Methanol Fuel is coverting their buses to Diesel or CNG. And on that note, CNG isn't that much more better.
PRO HYBRID, HYBRID FOREVER!
R142 Boi 2K
At Triboro Coach, there are 7 Methanol Powered Buses left running:
2136, 2138, 2140-2142, 2144 and 2147. Rest are stored at Command Storage-unknown what's gonna happen to them. I happen to ride on Jamaica Bus 3701 on Q11 last week and she used to be Ex-CTC M-3. I've noticed this about GBL 653-654 and JBL 3701: They're s l o w! They don't have good take-off at all. They changed the interior seats: They were green but now they're red and gray.
Q60#1148Gary
Correction: I rode 3701 on Q111 NOT Q11. Sorry, was a typo error!
Q46#8357Gary
Here in Los Angeles the last survivor of our one time as high as 345 Methanol and some Later Ethanol fuel (Yes there is a huge difference) TMC RTS 06 #1259 died on 1-31-00 and is already Desielized just as the rest of the fleet has been, except the handful of GMC RTS 04's that were converted to Methanol and all are looooong since retired.
But all 333 boght new Methanol RTS are on the road again.
The Methanol program was a very tubulant one here as that at any given time half the fleet would be n dead storage.
I really want to get out there to ride the last Methanols at Triboro.
If anyone wants to chat in further with me about this my email is Methanol1@webtv.net.
THANKS.-M1
Methanol was known to be corosive long before it began to be used as a fuel for city buses. The main problems are in handling and storage, as it's also highly flamable.
CNG, on the other hand, is not corosive, but it is explosive, unlike diesel fuel, which has a relatively high burn point.
If you're trying to adapt existing infrastructure to new technology, hybrid diesel is the way to go. If you're willing to put out the $$$ for the infrastructure improvement, CNG is vastly superior. Shortly, we'll be seeing 'experimental' CNG/hybrids, the best of both worlds. Decreased pollution and decreased fuel consuption. I saw 'experimental' because both concepts have been well proven seperately.
-Hank
Well there is a DUETS Consortium NovaBUS RTS-06 CNG Hybrid being tested right now, I got a pamphlet from NovaBUS about it.
R142 Boi 2K
RTS 2611 was the last bus to operate out of 126th St Depot that did'nt have a modified interlock. It was the favorite bus of one of our most senior operators and was assigned to him on a daily basis whenever possible. All buses assigned to 126th St have modified interlocks.
Cold you please explain "Modified Interlock" I have never heard that term before.
THANKS.-M1
There's an article in today's SI Advance (and a 1/2 page ad in Sunday's) for the HBLR. It's being pushed as another route for SI commuters to Manhattan, but apparantly MTA bus service into NJ is not a priority.
-Hank
I say confirmed because I saw it a couple of weeks ago, and wasn't sure (It was accelerating slightly as it passed where I was walking, and there were other buses all around). I didn't get around to posting about it, and figured I'd try to catch it again and make sure. Today I heard it clearly by itself on Church St. It is something like "Lifeline Tours" or something (I originally thought it was "Leisure Lines", but I got a better look at it today. Purple livery, white back and roof.
It is the first time I ever heard an MC-8 with a 6 cylinder engine.
I imaginr it was retrofitted.
6V-71's seemed to have begun reappearing on over the road coaches with 1981 MC-9's. 6V-92 followed a year later.
I did ride 1979 MC-9 #8296 in California in 1989 with a 6V-92. I figured it was retrofitted, but the driver said he saw no indication anywhere of that.
6 cylinder MC-5c's from Arabia began appearing on NY Airbus a decade ago, and they may still be running.
I've seen (and heard) that Lifeline Tours MC8 too. It had to be retrofitted. The 6V92 was not offered until 1981. In fact, 1978,1979 and 1980 RTS's came with either 6V71s or 8V71s. The MC5c's from Saudi Arabia came with 6V71s.
Actually, the Detroit 6V92 engines came out in mid-1980.
I drove some RTS's built in 9/80 and they came with 6V92's.
I also drove some MC-9's built in 9/80, and they, too, had 6V92's.
the 6V-92T could give as much HP as an 8V-71 with less weight. GM was looking to save weight on the RTS and used it as soon as they could.
It bolts into the same engine mounts and cradle as a 6V-71.
Yeah, as for city buses, the 1980 ex-TA Grummans had the 6V-92's as well. I rode in them Monmouth County when I went down there for a weekend the past couple of summers (wonder if they've been replaced yet. Will find out in a couple of months). I don't think these were retrofitted upon rebuilding, as #236, which the TA kept as part of its museum fleet sounds the same. I was surprised that something that old would have the 92's, as everything else I knew of from that period was either 71 or 8 cylinder. (I heard the Grummans were the first to offer 6V-92) '82 was when both Greyhound MC-9's and TA/Mabstoa RTS's first used 6V-92. '81 Greyhound MC-9's, were (like NYC RTS's) 6V-71, and everything before that was 8 cylinder.
[ the 1980 ex-TA Grummans had the 6V-92's ]
My understanding is that the NYCTA Grumman Flxible 870 had the Detroit Diesel 6V-71. Very few Grumman 870 came with the 6V-92 engine. Now when the Flxible Metros were introduced they used the 6V-92. They (The Grumman 870) definitely sounded like the 6V-71 and not the 6V-92. If they have 6V-92 now - I guess the were re-powered. You may be correct, but I've never heard of a MCI having a 6V-71 other than the late versions of the MC-5.
Yes, the 1982 RTS were the first group the NYCTA purchased with the 6V-92TA engine, but a few of those 1981 NYCTA RTS also had the 6V-92TA. They were (all non-PA buses) 1298-1317 Express buses that were assigned to Staten Island and 2281-2300 (local buses) originally assigned to MABSTOA's Kingsbridge.
Wayne
I heard that those '81 expresses were retrofitted. Some of them did have the '71 I know. As for the Grumman 870, was #236 rebuilt (like the ones that NJT picked up?)
I can't say for sure, but as far back as I can remember they (1298-1317) had 6V-92TA engines. At the time I lived near several Kingsbridge routes and I was very familiar with it's equipment and I never heard a 6V-71 in 2281-2300. These buses were originally assigned to Kingsbridge. Is it possible that they were retrofitted very soon after they were delivered or prior to entering service??? Someone at Kingsbridge depot wrote "TURBO" next to the interior fleet number on all 20 of these buses. I realize that there were a couple of SI buses with 6V-71 engines like 1308 (and 1313???). I always thought that ese buses might have had an engine failure and were unlucky enough to get repowered with a 6V-71. I remember that Flushing (later Casey Stengel) had at least 2 1982 GMC RTS that had their 6V-92 engines replaced with the 6V-71 - those buses were PA1717 and PA1743.
Wayne
All of the NYCTA/MABSTOA Grumman 870's were built with the Detroit 6V71 engines.
When they were rebuild by Flxible and resold to New Jersey operators, that's when they were changed to 6V92's.
Was #236 rebuilt also (like the ones that NJT picked)? Because 236, which I see every year at the museum festival, sounded like the ones in Monmouth.
[the 1980 ex-TA Grummans in Monmouth County - wonder if they've been replaced yet]
They were scheduled to be replaced by 1000 series RTS's. There are still a considerable number of ex-TA Grummans left in other parts of Jersey, but I don't know for sure about Monmouth County.
Wow! That must be an odd sight (sound). When I think of those older intercity coaches such as the MC-5, 6, 7 and Eagle 01 & 05 series - I just can't imagine them with anything but their 8V-71 engines. And, of course the good old days before Greyhound converted those older MCI to automatic transmissions.
Wayne
Denver RTD rebuilt all there MC-8's with 6V92TA's.
MC-8's or Mc-9's were never equipped with 6V71's. A lot of bus companies retrofitted their older MC-9's with 6V92TA engines.
Is the Grymes Hill Shuttle on Staten Island still running ? If so, what is its Route # designation ? Also, is it the shortest TA route in the city or does that honor go to the Holy Cross shuttle in Brooklyn that runs between Nostrand Ave. & Holy Cross Cemetery ?
The Grymes Hill Shuttle is the S60. It's a one-way loop from Victory & Clove to the old College of S.I. campus, then up the hill on Howard Avenue, then back to Victory & Clove.
What was the number of the route in Bklyn?????
B46M Limited
Anyone have any routing details
The Holy Cross shuttle was a branch of the Nostrand streetcar route from Nostrand Ave to the Holy Cross Cemetary gate. It was converted to bus along with the Nostrand Ave line and ran along Tilden Avenue. It last ran about 1959-1960. There was another shuttle route that ran entirely within the Seagate community at the end of Surf Avenue. This route, the B36S, last operated around 1990.
I remember B36S. Wasnt there another version of the B36??? I am not sure........
B46M Limited
Yes. From 1959 to 1961 some B-36 buses were routed via Bedford Ave and Avenue X between Bedford/Ave Z and Nostrand/Ave X. It lasted only 2 years.
Thank You
Why is there a curious lack of online info on Bus History? Look at NYCSUBWAY.ORG. Hundreds of subwya pictures. I'd love to see pictures of old bus terminals, and things like that. And learn about old bus routes.
There are those of us who possess much of that information and are only waiting for the questions to be asked. We will be more than happy to share any information we have or can dig up ? Why is the title of your post Short Line Bus Company. Do you have a specific question about that particular carrier ?
I thought I'd ask about the history of that company. I guess I forgot to type the last paragraph. I'm also interested in all bus companies that served the Sullivan County area.
Short Line also known as Hudson Transit Lines of Mahwah, N.J. has been one of the major success stories of the bus industry. It is owned by Barnett (Buzzie) Ruken. It is now part of the Coach USA system, but even before that they already owned Gray Line of NY, Colonial Coach of Philadelphia and Chenango Valley Bus Lines of Binghamton, N.Y. For a while they also owned a company called West Fordham Transportation that operated a line between the Bronx & New Haven, Connecticut which ceased operations in the 1960s. The Catskill Borscht Belt of Sullivan County with an illustrious history of its own, played a great role in the success of Short Line. When I was young my family and most others would travel to the " Mountains" as Sullivan County was called with the "Hackies". These were special operators such as Greenberg's Mountain Lines, National Mountain Lines, or Howard's Mountain Lines. They would use old Cadillac or Desoto black 9 passenger limousines with jump seats. The luggage was tied into a wide open trunk with a wooden board & huge brown tarpulin. Short Line was the first carrier to use large coaches on this run which was very lucrative due to the many resorts located in the area. Their major competition was Inter-City Transportation Co. Inc. of Maywood, N.J. owned by Theodore Richmond who also owned Orange & Black Bus Lines and Warwick Stages. Short Line purchased Inter-City's portion of the Catskill line run somewhere around 1970, and since then have really not had any serious competition in that area. There is a seasonal service that is operated in the Summer time by Jack Marmerstein of Video Tours under the name Sullivan County Transportation Co. primarily from the Jewish areas of Brooklyn. However this competition does not at all pose a serious threat to Short Line who have put their own buses into these very same areas during the busy Summer season.
Where might I find old pictures and schedules, and information on Shortline and Inter-city? My father used to go between the city and the Catskills during this period and he only remembers a little.
I personally do not have any of this memorabilia. However if you would e-mail SCEDMAN who posts regularly on this site, he is very knowledgable and might be able to help you. Also, he has a friend Steve, who presently works for Gray Line and used to be the Charter Manager at Short Line back in the 1960s. Both are active in the Bus Collector's field and I am sure they would know where to locate the old Short Line & Inter-City material.
This site was created primarily as a NY metropolitian area rapid transit site. It has grown to be a generic RT forum, but still with much discussion centered around NY subways. About the time I came onboard there was a growing amount of bus threads being generated. Dave was kind enough to create a seperate area on his site for this.
I don't think he would be opposed to storing bus photos and such, but that is totally up to you posters.
I sincerely thank Dave for this space, it's been a significant part of my learing/sharing experience.
Mr t__:^)
I second that sentiment. I learned a lot of things here and continue to learn more.
Rode the B103 this afternoon. It was Orion 4967. It was a nice ride. I only saw one bus stop sign for the B103. It stops by other bus route stops. I saw 5100 on the B41 and 5076 on the B6 at Flatbush Junction. A BM3 bus which was MCI Classic 422 blew by us on the Prosepct Expwy. It was a cool ride. I have a mini problem which is stops near subway routes except after Flatbush Jct. It is worth doing again..........
B103#4967Mike Express
B41#5100Mike Limited
B6#5076Mike
4967 runs regularly on the B-103. Interestingly, I saw 360(GMC RTS) on the BM3 and 357 on the BM 2 recently. I guess some of the drivers want to take these buses out for the last time. I have not seen a 300 series bus on the express in months. 23 new Orion transit versions are due in soon. Approximately 10 more MCI Classics will be sent to New York Bus Service upon the new Orion delivery.
Peace,
KayBee
I would love to ride the BM2 which is runs closest to my house. I might try it on a weekend.........
B46M Limited
Keep in mind that the BM 1,2 and 3 run every hour and half on Saturdays starting at 600am (first bus leaving Brooklyn) and 730am (first bus leaving Manhattan) and there is no Sunday service. Last bus is midnight leaving Manhattan.
KayBee
Thanks for the response..........
B46M Limited
anyone out there have some
stories to tell about riding the
DOG...( greyhound )..
There is present discussion in the Howard Beach area of making 99 st one way street bet 160 and 165 Av.
The alternatives are to add a shuttle service with 4 routing variations.---anyone have any feedback on this item
Roadeo 2000 to be held at South Beach Staten Island, On June 10 and 11
How do one get out there?????
B46M Limited
si ferry to st george. catch s51 bus to south beach. s53 from brooklyn transfer to s51 for three block ride.
Or the S79 to the s53 at Sand Lane. More exact directions depend on exactly which parking lot they hold it in. The s51 and s52 both travel Father Capodanno Blvd; the s52 goes only as far as Seaview Ave.
You can get either at eh SI Ferry terminal, or at Sand Lane and McLean Ave. It's a short walk to transfer from the s79, and the s53 puts you right there.
-Hank
I probably take the bus from Bklyn... The ferry doesnt run that frequent on Saturdays?????????
B46M Limited
Hank, since you live on SI could you give us the cross streets of the Roadeo site? Also directions from the VZ? I might attend (depending on family obligations) but I will have to drive... To go from Suffolk County by LIRR to Penn, #1 IRT to South Ferry, The ferry, and then a bus would take all day to go one way. This is one time where the auto is definitely faster.
Thanx
Ferry takes about 25 minutes from South Ferry to St George's. It runs every half an hour on weekends. 20 minutes during the week.
Q46#8357Gary
As I said before, it depends on which parking lot. Pretty much, South Beach runs from Sand Lane and Father Capodanno all the way to Father Capodanno and Seaview Ave. From Seaview Ave to Miller Field, the Parks Dept calls it Midland Beach, but generally the press and the TA will call them all one or the other. I expec, since the largest lots are at Midland Ave, that's where it would be. Get me the cross streets, I'll write directions for all who ask.
-Hank
Thanks Hank, because as I said before, to come from just inside Suffolk County would take a minimum of three hours by public transportation assuming I make most of the connections.
#9306WF f/k/a Hart Bus
Once you get the info I could use SIRT, MTA Train/Bus, AND, not or, but AND driving directions?
Yes.
-Hank
Thanks ya :)
:)
And does anyone know when drivers sign up for the rodeao?
That is going on right now
Ah. Do you know when it started, and when it ends?
Mr. Roboto
Monsey Trails operates regular scheduled service using primarily MC9 coaches from points in Rockland County to Manhattan and then continuing on to the Williamsburg & Boro Park sections of Brooklyn. They terminate at 49th St. & 18th Ave. at the same place that the B 110 does. On this line which is Hasidic owned, not only do the men and women sit separately but there is an opaque curtain that runs down the center aisle for the entire length of the coach so that they can not even see each other. This curtain is known as the "mechitza", which is the Hebrew word for divider.
Saw and rode on 5545 on Q60 today. Farebox was broken. It was formely known as QS 700. Also sign was broken. Be on the lookout. Also, it's official: All of the Ex-QS 275-281 are in service as I saw 1143 on Q60.
Q60#709Gary
Have a Command question for this board: Sometimes while on the Q46 to go to SJU, I see a Command bus sitting in front of CArvel on Union Tpke and 150 St. Last I saw 448 sitting there. Anybody knows why this bus is sitting there? It's nowhere in the vicinity of where it should be.
Q46#7010Gary
Could be the driver lives in the area and takes the bus home for lunch. They are not suppose to do so but the private lines supervision sometimes look the other way.
Thank You
it could be one of the BQM2-Starret city buses that hanging out there. maybe .
Ive seen him too in various places along 150 st.
The operator must live around the area of 150 and 79 avenue because i've seen the bus parked on 150th many years now.
I am pressuring the NYCDOT to allow a new all-day express service from East Flatbush to Midtown operate. I already have an operator for it. It will also offer Staten Island Ferry customers faster service from the ferry terminal to Midtown. I hope to start in the summer or in the fall. The route will be called the BM8. Pass the word to your friends.
Would this be run by you or the DOT?
Clayton Parker
Technical/Network Administrator
TransiTALK
I would assume that Command is the front runner of this route. Could you give more details......... Why would people in SI benefit?????
B46M Limited
I plan to work with two companies which have facilities in Brooklyn and would be interested in operating the service. NYCDOT informed me that they may not be able to do it because of a bus shortage, so I will get the route contracted out.
I think it would be more correct to say that there was a bus FAREBOX shortage ... they're on order BTW, but probally won't arrive until Fall.
Mr t__:^)
WILL DO!
Fernando Perez
Flunky/Surface Line Dispatcher
MABSTOA
In response to an inquiry by Mr Blue, a modified interlock is one where the brake pedal must be pushed in order to activate the interlock and open the rear door. To close the rear door and deactivate the interlock the brake pedal must be pushed again. NYCTA made this modification after a few incidents occured where passengers fell out of the bus while pushing on the rear door as the bus was in motion. Now if a passenger pushes on the door while the bus is in motion an alarm will sound and the brakes will automatically be applied bringing the bus to an immediate halt. Needless to say this system is'nt exactly a favorite of drivers. During the course of working day the brake pedal must be pressed hundred's of times which has led to many drivers complaining of sore knees and feet. In addition the automatic braking feature can be dangerous since the driver has no control over the brakes once the system applies them. Some rear doors are very sensitive and all it takes is a passenger just touching the door or a strong gust of wind to set the system off.
All buses purchased since 1986 have the modified interlock. Some 1984-85 buses were retrofitted with this system.
This all seems like overkill. The old interlock wouldn't allow the door to be unlocked while the bus was in motion, right? (I distinctly remember the repetitive beep as drivers attempted to open the door early.) And the New Looks all refused to unlock the door if someone was pushing on it.
The modified interlock slows down service significantly. There also seems to be some sort of interlock on the front door now (or is that just a change in operating procedure?). The yellow strip now keeps the door wide open until the driver flips the lever to lock the door, and then it closes slowly. (Unless my arms are full, I usually do everyone on the bus a favor by pushing the doors open the old-fashioned way, but the removal of push bars on the Orions makes that even more difficult.) And buses seem to stop more gently now, although my impression may be due merely to screechy brakes on the older buses.
Am I mistaken, or has service been slowed substantially over the past 15 years due to these changes?
OK I get it.
Here in LA we have a similar prblem if the doors are pushe
before the bus stops the doors lock and ont open.
This requires the passanger to PULL the door then push ot
after bieng yelled at by the driver or passangers who know
how to do it.
Also if the road is angled the thing may go off on its
own.
Now all new MTA rear doors are driver controld.
Enjoy.-M1
The old interlocking system for the most part would'nt allow the door to be forced open while the bus was in motion. However there were a few instances where this happened although in my opinion it must have taken a hell of a kick or shove to force the doors open.
I'm not aware of any interlock on the front door at least on the RTS.
The new buses i.e. Nova RTS's Orion V's and New Flyer DHF60 articulateds do stop smoother than the older buses. This is due to the transmission output retarder that all these buses come equipped with. When the driver presses on the brake the output retarder is activated and acts like a brake on the transmission slowing the bus down considerably. This makes for smoother stops and saves wear and tear on the brakes.
Between having to kneel the bus,picking up wheelchairs and the slower modified interlocks dwell time in the stops has increased thus slowing service down considerably.
I was on RTS 4183 (or 4381?) out of KB last night on the Bx20 and the driver was using the interlock to stop the bus. At every stop, he slowed down, then you heard loud beeping, then the sound of air being released, the bus literally went 'thunk' and came to a dead stop with the doors open.
-Hank
The beeping is caused by the front door being opened while the speed switch is off. The speed switch is activated once the bus slows down to around 1 mile an hour.
On newer RTS's you will get a beep and the door will not open till the speed switch light comes on which is almost at a dead stop.
Its very hard to stop a bus with the interlock because the jolt will be felt by the customers. The interlock can only be applied once the bus is at a dead standstill.
The extra time needed by operators to operate the modified interlock is negligible. However there are sometimes difficulties with the interlock not releasing or applying which occurs with due time but can be repaired by maintainers. Also there are many operators including myself that experience knee and ankle problems caused by the constant applying of the interlock. On a long line like the M101 you can hit the interlock 2 times for 100 stops you can imagine how hard it can be.
There are some properties that specify front door interlocks. San Francisco Municipal Railway is one of them. Seattle Metro is another.
Took the x31 into the city today. After we exited the Lincoln Tunnel at 34st, New Flyer 1005 came by, signed as an M34 to Javits Center. The lights in the bus were on, but I couldn't see if there were any passengers (I was on the wrong side of the bus to see) Are they running Artics on the M34 already, or was this a test? Are they doing this anticipating heavy load for the Auto Show next weekend?
-Hank
Might be a good idea for the show. That and possibly lessened traffic in midtown because of easter week
m34 comes out of hudson pier. artics are at westside and m42 and m23 are destined to become artic routes.
I've seen lots of "Not in Service" artic heading down 9th Ave and turning east on 23rd street in the past several months, but never any carrying passengers. Any idea when the artics will run on the 23 for real?
You will be seeing Artics on M23 soon but don't know when. Those Artics coming out from West Side Depot.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
The bus DID have the 'star' decal for Westside, but the letters are too small to read while in motion. Any other depots with a star on their logo?
-HAnk
Musta been westside. I hope they're for the auto show...
If they stay on the 34, which route is loosing them? The 79 or 86?
Aritcs can't stay on M34 because something about the narrow streets but don't know where. M34 coming out of Hudson Pier Depot but soon they will move to West Side Depot when Hudson Pier Depot close in 2001.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
Who says that Hudson closes in 2001? It all depends on the availability of 100 St. and other factors.
The most important of which is how much damage the marine borers do to the pier it sits on. We may have another Edgewater on our hands, and a bigger scale.
-Hank
like hank says that depot operates on a day to day basis and could collapse. hopefully ta bigshots will not let that happen.
HP I think will move by next year to an old UPS building on 49 Street and 11 Ave- about 7 blocks from WS. Some buses will go to WS from HP. They'll be 2 depots in 1 doing double duty. Anybody can clarify this?
M79#5301Gary
When 100th Street reopens in 2001 the plan is to close both Amsterdam and Hudson. I believe the following changes will be made but this is my opinion only:
M2 from Manhattanville to Mother Hale
M6 from Hudson to West Side
M7 from Mother Hale to West Side
M8 from Hudson to West Side
M9 from Hudson to West Side
M10 from West Side to Mother Hale
M11 from Hudson to Manhattanville
M14 from Hudson to West Side
M16/M34 from Hudson to West Side
M21 from Hudson to West Side
M22 from Hudson to West Side
M60 from Manhttanville to 126th Street(TA)
M66 from TA 126th Street to West Side
x90/x92 from West Side to 126 Street(TA)
M96/M106 from West Side to 100th Street
M98 from West Side to Manhattanville
M100 from Amsterdam to Manhattanville
M101 from Manhattanville to 100th Street
M102 from West Side to 100th Street
M103 from Manhattanville to 100th Street
M104 from Amsterdam to Manhattanville
Thank You
Hudson and Amsterdam will definitely close - each at a time which has yet to be determined by those who decide such things.
Those (future) decisions will also include route reassignments. As Barry noted, any discussion now is merely individual opinion.
(BTW, what about Hudson's part of the Q32?)
I agree with your opinion regarding line changes once 100th St. reopens. Here at 126th Depot we've been hearing of similar changes. Some of the rumors that have been floating around are as follows:
1) M66 to Westside
2) M60 to 126th St.
3) M100 either totally or partially to 126th St.
4) M96 to 126th St.
In my opinion I feel 126th St. will eventually lose both the M31 and the M57 to Westside. In regards to the reopening of 100th St. check out the article in this weeks Village Voice on page 32. Apparently there is a lot of opposition in the East Harlem community over the reopening of the depot due to the high rates of asthma present there. The article points out that the depot should open as CNG facility and that the MTA has one of the worst records in the nation for converting to CNG technology. Why are we always the last to do everything?
Cause the MTA tries to hold out and spend less money until lawsuit is thretaned.
1. Any route-assignment rumors you've heard from fellow drivers were started by (other) fellow drivers. No decisions have been made yet.
2. The CNG advocates (i.e. CNG-Profit Defense Council) like to play down the fact that CNG has a nasty habit of exploding, especially when you don't want it to. It's happened at NYCT, Los Angeles County MTA, and other agencies, more times than the advocates are willing to admit.
I hate to tell you when all issues are considered, CNG IS THE Safe. Desiel smoke is not safe. IT CAUSES CANCER and other lung disorders.
THAT IS A FACT
Let the doctors and the scientists, not the politicians and the political/neighborhood activists, tell us what is fact and what is not fact concerning the "dangers" of diesel buses.
David
scientists are the one's who has said that desiel is deadly. In fact it is the politicians who defend desiel because they get donations from the trucking industry. My environmental studies professor at Stony Brook University told the class that Desiel fumes cause severe damage to more peoples lungs than asbestos ever has or will. He conteneds that the only reason that this fact is not publicly known is that desiel is by far the cheapest fuel to use in industry. If desiel would be banned, the cost of production would rise.
FACT. CNG is safe. Inorder to have a CNG EXPLOSION it must be restricted from expanding when lit.
Then I have a question: Where does the Natural Resources Defense Council (you know, the people who think that CNG is the only non-polluting way of propelling a vehicle -- discounting electricity, fuel cells, hybrid technology, etc.) get its funding? My bet: the natural gas industry.
David
FUEL CELLS RUN ON CNG. I'VE ONLY POSTED THIS INFO a million times. Go to the web sites of any fuel cell maker and get the facts or read lasts months issue of popular science.
Fuel cells can use a number of source products. Any kind of hydrocarbon will do. This includes gasoline, diesel fuel, CNG, propane, hydrogen, methanol, ethanol, even vodka can do the trick, if you get the technicals right. Of course, the use of anything but pure hydrogen will give you emmissions other than water vapor.
-Hank
That is correct Hank. Through the use of converters hydrogen can be created from many sources. From what understand is that bus manufactures are planing to use CNG as the fuel. That would mean the MTA would have to fund the research into making the converters for Deseil to H work. Most other major transit authorities such as LA and chicargo are taking the CNG aproach. I am afraid that the MTA will face the choice of converting all there depots at once(terrible expensive) or having to buy untested technologies to convert Desiel to H(also very expensive) It just makes sense to take the middle road and make all NEW depots CNG.
FUEL CELLS RUN ON CNG. I'VE ONLY POSTED THIS INFO a million times. Go to the web sites of any fuel cell maker and get the facts or read lasts months issue of popular science.
OPEN YOUR EYES TO THE FACTS...
Fuel cells run on hydrogen. They may run on CNG as well, but they definitely run on hydrogen.
David
You are right David. Hydrogen is not readily available. The best choice of readily available fuels is CNG. Fuel Cell power plans being constructed including the one in the new CONDE NAST (excuse my spelling) in times square use cng as their fuel.
You are right David. Hydrogen is not readily available. The best choice of readily available fuels is CNG. Fuel Cell power plants being constructed including the one in the new CONDE NAST building (excuse my spelling) in times square use cng as their fuel.
Wouldn't that be too many routes at WS?
Wouldn't that be too many routes at WS? (And I'm not sure if this got posted twice, browser error).
Hey, as long as you've got enough buses, there's no such thing as too many routes at a depot.
-Hank
Yes there is. Depot capicity.
West Side Depot can hold more than 300 buses & they have 14 local & 2 express total 16 routes. By the way M34 belong to Hudson Depot & they don't carry Aritcs.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
Like I said, enough buses. Obviously, if you've got 10 routes out of a depot, you should have room for all the buses that route needs. So while there is a limit to the number of buses that can be assigned to a depot, there is no limit to the routes.
-Hank
From today's Washington Post:
Montgomery County will allow students to ride free on county-operated bus lines during after-school hours as a way of boosting transit ridership, County Executive Douglas M. Duncan announced yesterday.
Starting May 8, all students under 18 will be able to ride free on the county's Ride On bus system weekdays from 2 p.m. to 7 p.m., year round. The free fares also will apply to students at private and parochial schools in the county.
Duncan (D) said the "Kids Ride Free" program is intended to encourage mass transit use, get cars off the road to ease traffic congestion and reduce air pollution, provide an added level of convenience to parents worried about making transportation arrangements for children after school, and even increase safety by getting more kids off the county's roads.
In celebration of the 25th anniversary of the Ride On system, daily fares were lowered to 25 cents systemwide for one day yesterday. That lower fare will be available daily, for the rest of 2000, on two specially painted buses that will be randomly assigned to different routes every day. Riders on those buses also will be able to buy regional passes for $1.50.
END
Do any other systems do promotions like the thing with the students?
Also, I was unable to attend yesterdays festivities.
The special buses were said to have been sighted by people I know (I have doubts about this). One will be a regular size bus with a wheelchair lift, the other will be a small one (just guessing, but it seems logical).
The city of Tempe, Az offers a number of High School Students Monthly Passes who live 2 or more mies from school for free to offer an alt to driving alone or for the school dist to offer school buses. the youth pases for 6-18 are normally $17 a month.
We have that too, a Monthly Youth Crusier Pass. It costs 10 dollars and is good for a whole month. I meant promotions like free rides.
All New York City students living in excess of 2.4 kilometers from their place of daily incarceration (If I call it a place of learning, I would NOT be doing the word justice) are given free rides.
I haven't seen the yet, but I'll probably drive to Rockville or Silver Spring in hopes of finding these buses. Have you seen the new 40 foot Orion V's (5700 series) at Ride-On. They're on the routes that serve Silver Spring and Takoma Metro stations.
Wayne
Already saw one. This morning, it was on the 23. I didn't have my camera (I was on my way to school) and I was too slow to realize my bus drivers plan for me to get out and ride it one block (he'd have to come back to Sanagmore Road, anyway). Oh, well.
I'll get it again.
Wayne, if you find a schedule of the apperances, please post it. I might be able to get one from some one I know who drives for Ride-On.
Just saw Green Lines Orion #5546 crossing the GW Bridge back into NYC. Guess is that it was coming from Lodi Detroit Diesel, Look spanking new and my guess is that this is Ex-Queens Surface #701!
Trevor
If the tailpipe is shorter than others, then it's ex-QS 701. I'll see.
Q60#1148Gary
I sometimes see charter coaches on the West Side Highway. They are usually Trans-Classic buses whose garage is in Yonkers on Nepperhan Ave. Do they have a special permit to use this road where buses are not permitted ? I thought that only a military permit is valid here ?
I don't know, but i've seen that too and some Atlantic Express School Buses on the W Side Hwy too!
R142 Boi 2K
These busses should not be allowed on the West Side Highway. In fact, they shouldn't be allowed on ANY highway. They should use them to dispose of noxious wastes, only the bus will probably dissolve considering that it's made of 100% USDA choice crap.
Often, there are many YUK and CAS buses traveling to WS. It jams up the highway often. Kinda bites when you are trying to come back in time to do something vital:-)
Clayton Parker
Network/Technical Administrator
TransiTALK
West Side Highway is not a parkway. The street-level section is open to all traffic. Trucks and buses are banned on the elevated section above 57 st.
-Hank
I seen them also, but never on the Henry Hudson portion north of the GWB.
Wayne
There was a time until recently that NYC transit buses were forbidden on the Henry Hudson above 57 St and the NYC highway patrol were very vigourous in enforcement. However recently the DOT has given permission for NYC transit to use this portion of highway.
Also some school bus companies have permission to do so also with a special letter being displayed on the rear door window acknowledging such. I believe all NYC transit have this letter also on board all buses. I know at Mother Hale where I currently work I have seen these letters posted in the operator compartment.
I think the only line that is authorized to use the Henry Hudson by NYC is the M98 deadheading back and forth.
From Steve Andersons Site the only parkways where buses are allowed are on the Grand Central Parkway (Overpass Clearence is Ok for Buses Only) and at some locations on the FDR (For bus Turnarounds).
From Steve Andersons Site (The Roads and Crossings Of NY nyroads.com)the only parkways where buses are allowed are on the Grand Central Parkway (Overpass Clearence is Ok for Buses Only) and at some locations on the FDR (For bus Turnarounds).
According to Mr Mabstoa (me) nyc transit buses and all other buses allowed must have a letter of permission posted allowing them on the FDR and Westside highway. I have seen this letter posted in NYc transit buses and school buses.
I've seen this letter on some buses, but rarely on buses that I've ridden on the FDR, including the x5, x7, x17, and x31, which use the FDR from 23rd St to the Battery. Roll-offs from Tottenville will use the Richmond Parkway to return to richmond ave, as do drivers on the x17 and x19 on the way to/from Huguenot.
Also notably missing from the buses making the runs through NJ are the NJTP permits that allow the private (NYCT) tow, instead of the TPs authorized tow operator.
-Hank
All buses are permitted on the FDR only till 23St without any restrictions, however I do not think any special permits are issued beyond due to the weight restrictions on the elevated portions of the Drive.
Before the PABT, where was De Camp's terminal?
I think that they ran from the old Consolidated Terminal on 43rd St. bet. 7th & 8th Ave. where Casser Tours later had their offices and departures. But I am not certain of this. They have a web site that gives an extensive history of the company at www.decampbus.com.
FEAR NOT FOLKS ITS YOUR GOOD BUDDIE SLEEVE 4SKIN TO ANSWER ANY AND ALL QUESTIONS ABOUT BUSSES AND TRANSIT THAT YOU MAY NOT BE HIP ENOUGH TO DIG.
GIVE ME A POST AS SOON A POSSIBLE FOR ME TO GIVE YOU ALL THE INFO YOU NEED PLUS MORE!!!
PEACE OUT!
OK Here are a few questions:
1. What EX-NYBS Orions are at GBL and what are their numbers?
2. What Jamaica Flexibles are in service at JBL?
3. What QS GMC RTS is sitting in the rear of QS Yard?
4. What was thje whole GMC RTS fleet at QS b4 they retired?
5. What replaced the QS GMC RTS Fleet?
6. What ex QS TMCS and Orions are at GBL and what are their numbers at GBL? What are these buses replacing?
7. Why are you typing in all caps? I don't like saying this, but to other BusTalkers, it annoys them. Please use proper format! Thanks! This is your little bus quiz, sleeve4skin. If you pass, welcome aboard!
Q46#8357Gary
MM2000
[3. What QS GMC RTS is sitting in the rear of QS Yard?]
Somebody's been peeking through our fence ... hint one of them is not with the rest, i.e. they parked it in the wrong spot.
BTW, what's the prize for the BusTalker with all the right answers ?
Do I get a consolidation prize for knowing all the QSC answers B-)
Mr t
It is spelled Flxible not Flexible.
Do you you have a web site that has a lot of bus pictures biographies of its vice presidents and technical/network administrators. Also does your website sell products with MTA emblems glued on such as fanny packs and candle holders?
IF NOT BACK OFF!!
thats why i ask questions like how many of you traveled cross country on greyhound ?..........and your answer is ...._______________________....!!!__
Do you you have a web site that has a lot of bus pictures, biographies of its vice presidents and technical/network administrators. Also does your website sell products with MTA emblems glued on such as fanny packs and candle holders?
IF NOT BACK OFF!!
1) What engine & transmission are in the NovaBUS LFS Demo #995
2) Name all of the exact manufactures and bus models operated by the NYCMTA.
3) Name the Hybrid Drive Train in the Orion Hybrids the NYCMTA has.
4) What depot will the new Hybrid buses be eventually transferred to?
5) What other company(ies) has New Flyer D45S "Vikings"?
6) Exactly how many GMC New Look "Fishbowl" Buses are in the museum fleet?
Answer and let's see if you correct.
R142 Boi 2K
As many of you know I have a coin collection & belong to several coin/token assoc.
This month I received a adv. from one of the retailers that incl. a interesting photo of a bus driver badge for sale.
Trailways Bus System - Bowen Motor Coaches - (driver) #78.
I'm just curious if anyone knows where Bowen operated and what their relationship was to Trailways.
BTW, I you want to bid on this, please e-mail me privately before 4/18
Mr t__:^)
One of our former drivers at Royal Lines where I work owned a bus company in the early 1980s. It was a 2 bus operation based out of Norwich, Connecticut where he lives. One of those buses was an ex Greyhound 102 inch wide MCI-6 and the other was a Silver Eagle model #05 which he purchased from Trailways in North Carolina. His name is Jessie Bowens. As I understand it he never completely removed the Trailways logo from the coach before he put it into operation. The name of his company was Bowens Motor Coaches. But he spells it with an s in his last name. I know that he did have a uniform and badge made up with the picture of an Eagle coach on it. Although he no longer drives for us, he is still an active charter bus driver at the age of 80 and presently drives for Monroe Bus Company out of their Brooklyn garage. This might be the missing piece to your puzzle, or because of the extra s in the name it might not be.
That would have been something if it was a match ! But this employee badge has a map of the US with no eagle on it anywhere.
Thanks for the input just the same.
Mr t__:^)
The TA 126th Street Depot was not a garage of the old East Side and Comprehesive Bus Lines which the city took over in 1948.
126th Street Depot was taken over from Surfice Transit Inc when MABSTOA was created in 1962. It was later turned over to the TA Manhattan Division which consolidated its 5 routes from two small
depots on 99th Street and 108th Street which were the old East Side and Comprehsive depots
PS-I may be wrong on the street locationns of the old depots. One of them may have been on 100th Street not to be confused with the current garage being rebuilt which was a 5th Ave /NYC Omibus facility.
Thank You
Check out the schedules for the N31/32 and N33. You will need the Adobe Acrobat Reader to view these files)
On each, there is a list of MetroCard transfer connections. Since when does the F go to Far Rockaway? I have two hypotheses for this error:
1. Wishful thinking on the part of Long Island Bus
2. Confusion between these three routes and the Hillside Avenue routes (N1-2-3-6-22-22a-24-26)
JTLYK: This is was also posted on SubTalk.
Well, that's kind of a disappointment, but hey at least they finally got the schedules on line. Welcome to 1996, LI Bus.
theres a story in todays paper that details the trip of a new flyer bus from the factory in minnesota to atlantic diesel in lodi nj which many bus talkers might be interested in.
The bus that he is referring to is our 3 New Flyer D45S "Viking" Buses #996-998.
Below is a couple of photos by Trevor Logan:
R142 Boi 2K
As a near-daily (except when I spend the night at my fiance's) SI X-bus rider, I have yet to see any of these buses in service or out of the depot. I think I saw one of them in Yukon, parked in the short lane behind the front entrance.
-Hank
No, nyet, and uh-uh: the reporter specifically noted that he was riding bus 5346, which is a New Flyer D60.
Nice pictures, though.
David
Yes, nice pictures!
Visit my web site!
I have the real pictures of the Viking!
And purchase some of my MTA logo mugs and guitars!!!!!
Talking about the journey of the New Flyers is that similar to the journey that the 3 ghost Vikings took to the NY Metro Area. Has anybody seen these things at Castleton or Yukon yet?
R142 Boi 2K
I posted about this the other day. Never seen one in service yet, but may have spotted one hiding in Yukon depot.
-Hank
senator marchi is trying to have a bill passed which would mandate nyct to create 4 new south shore express routes by 9/30/00. the bill is supported by mollinari and giuliani. its only detractor is atlantic express which wants the city to give it metrocard fareboxes so they could have these routes.
That way, Rudy gets credit for adding service, without having to PAY for it.
Could somebody tell me back around 12/11/88 when the Archer Avenue Subway open what 6 southeast Qns bus routes were rerouted to serve intermodal facility at Parsons Blvd. Does anybody know what bus lines were involved in that change.
I actually have the informational flyer somewhere. I meant to scan it one of these days.
I do recall the Q17A was renamed the Q30 though.
Q3A/83 ,4A/84 ,5,5A/85,Q17A/30,and the 31,and the 42..I believe the Q44 was also part of this whole rerouting program in Jamaica
About the time they did this, they pulled 'The Great Renumbering' out in Queens on NYCT routes, similar in scope to the SI route renumbering, but for a more practical purpose. Eliminated that I vividly recall were numerous versions of the Q44 including the Q44A, Q44B, and Q44VP. Until the Q44/Q20 was rearranged recently, I think they had eliminated all the 'A-B' routes.
-Hank
The following routes were modified to serve
Parsons/Archer:
Southeast: Q4, Q5, Q42, Q83 (Q3A), Q84 (Q4A), Q85
Northeast: Q30 (Q17A), Q31; Q17 (to Merrick/Archer)
Nassau: N4
There were also some non-Archer changes:
1. Q75, Q76, Q77 extended to 165th Street Terminal
2. Several Brooklyn routes given Q-numbers.
3. All NYCT A-suffix routes renumbered.
Yes several Brooklyn routes were renumbred,B22/Q24(also extended from Parsons Bl/89th Ave to Jamaica/171stwhich has since been scaled back to 168th)B53/Q54,B55/Q55,B56/Q56,B58/Q58 and the B59/Q59
Why was the Q24 scaled back to 168St????
BM34x
Where did the Q44A, Q44B,and Q44VP went to, in what year did they eliminate these lines.
Not eliminated, renamed as follows:
Q44A = Q46
Q44B = eliminated (i think it would have been named Q71)
Q44VP = Q74
Q44FS = Q20 (stood alone until incorporated into the 44 in June of 99)
for the record:
Q3A = Q83
Q4A = Q84
Q5A = Q85
Q5S = Q86 (now eliminated)
Q12A = Q79
Q17A = Q30
what about the 225 st Crosstown
The Q5AS (Laurelton Shuttle) was killed in the late '80s due to lack of riding. It never got a Q80-series number.
Back in the late 60's before I got my "Wheels" I would take the Q44 up and down Main St. The Q 44 VP was a feeder route ( I think ). It was numbered Q 44 VP for Vleigh Place because I believe that was one terminal...Can't recall the other terminius. Does anyone remember where it started.....Also what the the FS stand for on the Q44 FS ?
Was it "Flushing Shuttle" ? Where did that route start and end?
Q44VP Main and Melbourne (Reeves) and Queens Blvd (q44)
The Q74 (was Q44VP) terminates at Kissena Blvd & Melbourne Avenue. From there, it runs along Melbourne to Main Street. It bears right onto Vleigh Place. It then makes a right turn at Union Turnpike, and another at Queens Boulevard. It terminates inb front of the Kew Gardens subway station. It then makes a U-turn to pick up passengers across Queens Boulevard. It bears right on Kew Gardens Road, then makes a left at 80th Road, another left on Queens Blvd, and a right on Union Turnpike. It then runs along Union Turnpike to 141st Street. It continues onto Vleigh Place to 75th Avenue, makes a right there, then a left on Main Street. It gors to Horace Harding Expwy, makes a right there, makes another right on Kissena Blvd, then terminates at Melbourne Avenue.
44FS Main/Roosevelt to the present day Q20 Terminal via 14 Avenue
The reason for all of the Q44 variants (Q44A, Q44B, Q44VP, Q44FS) was so that North Shore Bu Co. could piggy-back then on the Q44 franchise, even though they had litle or nothing to do with the Q44.
BTW: Before the "FS" designation, the Q44FS was designated as... Q20!!
here are a few more routes that got renumbered
Q5AB=Q99
Q49 (This route was used for the J Train Shuttle until 1989)
Correction: The old Q5AB (the "B" stood for Bedell Street) was combined with the old Q5A to form the Q85, within the last year or so prior to Archer opening.
The short-lived Q99 was the Archer-Hillside connector shuttle, which was put in to appease those who complained about the Merrick routes no longer serving Hillside. Apparently, the complainers were not bus riders.
The Q24 cutback to 168th was due to (1) the reroute from Jamaica Avenue to Archer and (2) overcrowding at 171st.
Frankly, I don't see the need for three routes to go to 171st. What's there, anyway - just a few storefronts?
There is really nothing at 171St the last time I checked.......
BM34x
If you would like to see live shots of a bus stop in downtown State College, Pennsylvania, go to "http://www.catabus.com" and click "Live view of College & Allen bus stop" If we could only get the MTA to do that at some of the busy bus stops in NYC!
Now that I don't have your attention.
I know that nobody gets as far as this sentence so the rest of the message will be laced with profanity.
BUS
When the HuBeLiRT opens in nearby Hudson County, New Jersey I intend to make it part of the FOLLOWING trip:
PATH to the X-change Place
HuBey to Z-change Place (just joking, ignore this one, move on to #3)
Hudson Bergen Glorified Trolley to Limousine Liberal Avenue
Back to Tyranny State Park
Down to the Branch of Miracles!
Special shuttle down to Baylease waterfront
Walk across Baylease Bridge to
Pick up 553 BUS (I TOLD YOU THAT WAS A FUNNY WORD!) at Port Richmond Equiangular Orthogonal Quadrilateral
Take bus across Very Zany-Widens Bridge
sU(bway) "R" syoT to Square root of 81 Street
[[[[[[CENSORED]]]]]]] to former Nation of Streets leader Avenue X.
BTW, you should appreciate this trip, this crap is going to cost me almost 3 million.
kool.
I think the Queoklyn and Broens private bus companies should merge into one company called:
Command your Green Queens through Triboro and Jamaica.
OR, a more practical name:
RIBS
Please come back when your hangover has left you.
-HAnk
No need for mudslinging (or beer slinging).
Royal Island Bus Service
Thank you
Why?
It's on topic.
Also, instead of adding your comment to the subject put it in the message or do both, it makes more sense.
ah ha... maybe the key to understanding pigs posts is to read them backwards... perhaps he is has that disorder called dysphoria...
I do not feel unhappy
THATS RITE MATEY BOYS I DRIVE FOR THE MTA-LONG ISLAND BUS SERVICE AND CAN TELL YOU ALL ABOUT OUR NEW 7200 SERIES NEW FLYER D60LF'S NOW IN SERVICE ON ROUTE 57 AND CAN BE FOUND IN A GOOD PHOTO SPOT AT THE FULLERTON TRANSIT CENTRE.
LATER DUDE'S!
Heard on the radio this AM that my State Senator, Dean Skelos, says he's found $8M to plug the hole in the LI Bus budget.
BTW, PLEASE DON'T SHOUT WE CAN HERE YOU JUST FINE in lower case !
P.S. What depot do you work out of, as I have made a few friends at the Garden City one.
Mr t__:^)
If I heard S4skin correctly there 7200 Series New Flyer D60LF Articulated ad MTA-LI Bus. I though they were getting some Orion VI CNG Low Floors?? What happened change of mind?????
R142 Boi 2K
I've heard that LI Bus was getting some new equip. too, but don't know specifics. S.4skin, if he is a driver at LI Bus, may be miss-informed. Drivers are the last to know, U NO ?
He might be heypaul or Pigs posing as a bus driver. Why should the SubTalkers be having all the fun on this site ?
Mr t__:^)
Why do you accuse me?
And another thing, this bozo isposting from WebTV, which I have denounced on numberous occasions. It can be heypaul, but heypaul doesn't do that kind of thing. Why do you think it's one of us?
You know, I tink it's YOU, and you're trying to find someone as a scapegoat. How does that make you feel?
Next time you come up with that kind of bullshit, I won't be so nice.
Those artics belong on the N20/N21, N22A and N24. Where are they? Anybody have a pic as proof? The N57 operates from where to where? And Yet the N22A and N24 can't use artics because they'd have to back up out of Jamaica Terminal Bus Stop along with the N6.
Q46#8357Gary
The N57 is the Great Neck Shuttle Loop. If this was true, why would artics be placed on a shuttle? Also notice how he calls it "Route 57" and not N57. BTW, I never seen any info about this on News12 or in Newsday.
It would appear that S.4skin is mistaken. The latest purchase IS Orion CNG 40' buses only.
On another thread, some readers were talking about the old M103, which was the 59th Street Crosstown bus. It also turned north on West End Av. as the M57 does today, serving the many high rise apartment buildings along West End Av. up to 72nd St...and using Bway/72nd St. as its terminal.
I can understand the West End Av. part of the route, with thousands of apartment dwellers using the bus to go crosstown or connect with subway stations. But why 59th Street and not 57th St? 59th is pretty quiet, for three long blocks it borders Central Park, there aren't many stores or business and on the East Side the bus must have gotten caught up in Queensboro Bridge traffic.
Of course, in those days, the M5 and M30 (which was the 72 St. Crosstown) were using 57th St. along with the M58 which was the 57th Street Crosstown bus. So maybe adding one more bus to 57th St. didn't make sense?
One more question...were the M100, 101, 102, 103, 104 and 106 all co-owned at one time? All trolley routes? Was there ever an M105?
Craig
^
The old M103 used 59th Street because it was originally a trolley route (X-59th St Crosstown)that was part of the 3d Ave. Railway System before it was converted to bus (Nov 1946). After that the M103 operated under the Surface Transportation moniker. In those days the west terminal was at 11th/West End Ave and 59th St., not a 72d and Broadway. It wasn't till after MABSTOA took over this route that it was extended to 72d St. (probably around 1963).
57th St. was a Fifth Ave. Coach bus route originally (20 - 57th St. Crosstown) that was not started until 1934. That's why the M103 bus remained on 59th St. (separate companies, although 5th Ave. and Surface did in fact merge in 1956).
Yes... the M100 through M106 were all originally Surface Transportation routes, and were formerly 3rd Ave. Railway trolleys before all were converted to bus between Nov. 1946 and June 1947. The M105 did exist - it was the old 10th Ave. trolley route, running from 72d and Broadway to 42d and 12th Ave., via Amsterdam/10th Aves. and 42d St. After 1948, when 9th and 10th Aves. were converted to one way operation and NYC Omnibus Route 11 9th/Amsterdam took over, the M105 shifted to 11th Ave., but it was a light line and did not survive the MABSTOA takeover in 1962. The M57, in fact, is almost a descendent of the M105, covering 11th/West End Aves. between 57th and 72d Sts.
The M100, M101, M104, and old M103, M106 routes were former Third Avenue Railway streetcar lines, subsequently operated by Surface Transportation. They were numbered in the 100's to avoid having FOUR #1's, etc. The M5, M30, and M57 (old M28) used 57th because they were Fifth Avenue Coach routes.
Yes, there was once an M105. It ran from 72nd/Broadway down West End and 11th Avenues to the 42nd Street Pier. I'm not sure exactly when or for how long it ran.
There was also an M107 (East 106th Street), which ran only between 5th Av and FDR Drive. It's been revived as the M106.
The M102 started its life as the M101A, taking over New York Omnibus' #4 (Lex-Lenox) route; it wasnt part of the Third Avenue Railway system.
One more point that I didn't mention in my earlier post. There was an M102 route (on paper, anyway), before MABSTOA used this number for the Third/Lex Lenox Aves. route. Before Third Avenue Railway converted the Broadway-Kingsbridge (M100) and Third-Amsterdam (M101) routes to bus in 1947, it also operated a crosstown trolley on 125th St, river to river. This route became the M102 on paper, but operated minimal trips to keep the franchise, since the M100, M101, and BX29 (now BX15) covered 125th St. anyway. By the time MABSTOA took over in 1962 the M102 did not exist.
Today's NY Daily News (KSI, Sports Final, page 40) reports that Pataki has 'vowed' to majke the MTA bus fleet the cleanest in the nation. Pataki, Senate Majority Leader Joe Bruno, and Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver announced a plan to purchase 550 additional clean-fuel buses (no fuel or power plant is specified, but it is later mentioned that they will be either CNG or diesel-electric). They would also convert 3300 diesel buses to burn low-sulfur diesel.
-HAnk
Transit Transit this month has SOME detail on this, so word has already been given to the TA suits, i.e. Larry Reuter spoke of it.
Right now QSC is King of alternate fuel operators with 186 (that's the scheduled total, a few are still at the plant). So folks in Queens are breathing a little easier these days .... applause applause ;-)
Mr t
i hope he does this because coming in to yukon this morning the pollution was deadly. orions were emitting most of it but the mci were also contributing. brooklyn at least has cng buses and manhattan a few hybrids. staten island with the dump also has the worst polluting buses.
I have yet to see any of the MCI DL3SS Cruisers and the 1999 Orion V emit black smoke, the Orion V Suburbans, yes definately.
R142 Boi 2K
I've seen a 1999 emit black smoke: 6128 out of "Stinky Stengel."
Q46#8361Gary
I've seen a 1999 Orion emit black smoke: 6128 out of "Stinky Stengel."
Q46#8361Gary
I guesss he did not read the TIMES. The times had the story on the front page. Here's the details
1. All none express or arctic bus will be alternative fuel(CNG or
HYBRID)
2. The TA will scale back the purchase or artic.
3. THE TA will retire all 2-stroke desiels by 2001
3. The remaining desiels will have advanced particle traps
installed by 2001.
4. Low sulfer desiel will be used at all depots
5. All new depots built or renovated will be converted to CNG
Low sulfer should be in use now. Federal law calls for it
high sulfer(aka red) is only for off road use. I have seen
the irs checking fuel tanks ( taxes are less on red) and
also have seen dot officers checking tanks too. If caught
using red in on road use they can impounded the vehicle
and impose large fines.
I'll be taking a trip at the end of the month out to Kearny, NJ to take some pictures of the scrap yard where they've got a few dozen NYCT RTS lying on their side. Any requests for stuff I should specifically look for?
-Hank
Anything memorabilia items you can salvage?
I don't instend to steal anything, and I doubt I can get on the property.
-Hank
I don't think anyone would want you to STEAL anything, but ASKING to take a few small minor trinkets won't hurt either assuming you get on the property. One question. Is this the Nimco yard or the Gershow scrap yard. If neither, do you or anyone else know where those yards are located? I wouldn't mind taking a ride out to look around one of those yards either with a camera. Can't wait for you to post the pictures of the scrapped buses. Good luck Hank. BIG AL
I don't knowwhose yard it is. I don't even know how to get there. But I see it every day from the turnpike, and I know where to find it. So I'll simply get off the turnpike at 15E, and find my way.
-Hank
This is an open invitation to our show. Many of you may already know about it. If so, this is just a reminder and an update about the features of the show. Please check our web page for details & photos.
http://home.att.net/~sctransit/NYCMTA1.htm
Thanks, Steve
The New York City Model Transit Association &
Saint Augustine, HSA Present -
The 2000 NYC Model Trolley & Transit Show
To take place on Saturday June 3, 2000 from 9am to 5pm
- with a setup day - Friday June 2 from 4 to 11 pm
At-
St. Augustine of Canterbury School
45 Henderson Road
Kendall Park, NJ 08824
Suburban Transit's bus from the PA bus terminal to Princeton, stops 1/2 block from the school. Buses run every 1/2 hour.
Use the Henderson Road stop.
Admission $10 (spouse & children free)
Dealers tables $30 each + admission
Several Dealers attending will have model buses for sale. As well as photos & slides, books, magazines and video tapes.
Mr. Kurt M. Resch, author of "A World of BUS Toys & Models" will be on hand selling signed copies of his book.
Also - there will be operating layouts, "how to" clinics, door prizes, and a model contest.
Contact
Steve Olsen - sctransit@worldnet.att.net
Read the subject line, figure it out.
Thanks, in advance.
Which reason do you want? (Not trying to be funny or make any kind of fun out of the question). There were many reasons for Flxible pulling out of the market. The main reason's I've heard over the years are below.
They had insufficient cash flow (not sure if they went bankrupt) for one. Another was they couldn't meet deadlines for large orders they bid on and were losing money by contracts being pulled. Also they lost money because of warranty work due to many problems from poor workmanship. I've also heard that they were underbidding to get orders (bidding less than the bus cost to make).
Bottom line, it was the financial bottom line literally that did them in.
One would think with all the orders they had towards the last years of their existence, they were doing good. Obviously they weren't.
RDChilds
1993 was the last model year for Flxible, correct?
Too bad - they were my favorite bus. I'm not too fond of the Orions (but I DO like the articulateds)
Wayne
93 sounds about right but could be 94 depending on how you look at it. I'm not 100% sure so I don't want to say for certain but I know PAT in Pittsburgh had among the last few orders of coaches and they were coming in over a three year period. I'm pretty sure they came in 92 through 94 but by then Flxible was not accepting any new orders at the very end and some systems had to sue or threaten to sue to get the buses out of them.
I do like the styling of the Flxibles and hope someone makes them again. We seem to have had better luck with the Orions than you guys in NYC. They are pretty well liked in Pittsburgh but they do have their critics here as well.
The 60 foot Ikarus articulateds we have are the most disliked bus in the fleet currently. Very much underpowered with a 6V-92TA and go through engines three times as fast as anything else in the fleet.
RDChilds
I believe Flxible went out of business in late 1994. I know this because at the time I started working for transit in the middle of '94 and NYC transit had an order in for 50 Flxibles. They were going to start testing them again for the first time since the big Flxible mess when they got rid of all of them. I also liked them better than the RTS's and the Orions. I remember riding the advance design prototype, bus #100, when I was in high school back in 1980. At the same time the prototype for the RTS's bus was in service also. (bus 200).I was wondering if anybody knows the real reason why transit had so many problems with them in the early '80s. Post your responses and I'll see how many of you get it right. I definitely know the REAL reason and it may suprise many of you. BIG AL
Many cities, not just New York, had problems with the Grumman Flxible 870 Advanced Design Bus. Among them were Houston and Atlanta. However, in early 1984, David Gunn had just taken over as NYCT(A) president and wanted to make a name for himself, so when a Grumman express bus caught fire in midtown, he used the opportunity to order them removed from service.
David
I am not old enough to really remember the Grummans in New York, but I think Gunn made a mistake. NJ Transit never had problems with their Grummans OR the ones they bought from the TA. I wonder what it would have been like if the TA kept the Grummans. Would they have purchased those instead of RTS's for many years?
I remember the RTS's from when we were living on Staten Island in the mid-80's (we moved to Jersey in 1987, when I was 4), but I don't remember the Grummans.
To this day, I associate the RTS with New York City bus, and vice-versa.
The RTS went on fire as well. 1983 RTS 3315 went on fire and was destroyed when it was virtually new. I guess Gunn had it out for Flxible. As years go by, history has a way of evaluating people. David Gunn was THE worst TA president ever. The damage he did, in particular to the TA power hierarcy, is irrepairable.
He was also the president during the great TA turnaround.
Of course he was the worst, perhaps he actually made the employees work for a living?
So that's what happened to 3315. That would explain why I have never seen it when Fresh Pond ran 3294-3325.
Just because a bus catches fire, does not mean the entire fleet is bad (with the exception of Orion-more later) There are many causes of bus fires, oil leaks, arson, overheated manifold, fuel leak, electrical short, or even sabotage.
In the case of Orion, a manufacturing defect was discovered where a wiring harness was over-tightened, and this caused the wires to chaff and short, which ignited fires, most notably in a bus at Rutgers.
Every failure must be looked at first by itself. If and when you discover similarities between failures, that's when you start to look for problems in vehicles that HAVEN'T failed (yet). If you discover a problem then, that's when you start the finger-pointing process.
-Hank
I always thought it was a mistake for NYCTA to get rid of the Grumman 870's. When NJ Transit started to buy their Flxibles the problem buses had already been retrofitted.
Wayne
The reason why Flxible went out of business is that Neoplan builds a better bus.
The later model flexis were great busses. Neoplan/Orion/New Flyer/Nabi, from a distance you can t tell them apart. You know what they are because you know what the system has
The flexibles(Grumman) went out of service because of design, structure and workmanship problems. Check the Bus insider's guide that B/O's get
O.K. here the real story about why Flxible went out of business. Too begin with, Flxible was never really a business. Flxible was the name of the buses that were built by Grumman. Grumman decided that they would rather invest their money into aviation and parts for NASA including the space shuttles. Too say that Flxible went out of business because GMC-RTS/Nova, Orion, New Flyer or Big Al's Best Built Buses were better is absurd. If you leave NYC you will find that most other bus companies are using Flxibles as a part of their fleet so quality wise that speaks for itself. True, NYC and some other cities had problems with the Flxibles, but I would be willing to bet that the other bus manufacturers gave certain cities problems also. I'm quite sure that if Grumman wanted too, Flxible could be reborn tomorrow. BIG AL
Flxible most certainly WAS the name of the bus building business. It was only in their later years that Flxible becae a subsidiary of Rohr Corporation (in 1975) and then Rohr sold the bus building division to Grumman (in 1978).
The Flxible Company was around for decades. They made, besides buses, funeral hearses and motorcycle sidecars. In fact, the "Flxible" name came from the connection between cycles and sidecars that they developed. Ibelieve that was in the 1920's.
Sorry if I confused you, however I was referring to Flxible in their later years. I should have said Flxible was a division. (sorry) However, they really were not their own company. They were strictly owned and operated by Grumman so they really did not go out of business. Like you said, they were their own company in their early years, but I was referring to them in the present. BIG AL
Grumman sold them to outside investors who resumed the Flxible name and Logo. Baltimore went nuts over them and bought nothing else (save 10 Neoplans) from 1982 to 1995. When Flible ceased (I heard the investors bailed out, and some of the employees wanted to buy the parts business, but nothing came of it.) the MTA went to Ikarus/NABI for orders. I read somewhere (maybe on BusTalk) that somebody had gotten the plans/tooling and was thinking of building Fxlible Metro's again.
At one time Flx has announced that they were willing to build a bus for ANY power plant, bet it gas, diesel electric, CNG,LNG or whatever got developed.
In the early 1990's the MTA was seriouly looking to convert 1 bus line to ETB's. Nothing came of the proposals (rumor had it the 19-Harford Road line was picked, as it was the only line with an on-line division and around 50 ETB's and 15 or so Diesels for the 2 branches and the Express runs.) and it was quietly dropped. Had it happened, we could have has Flxible ETB's running today.
According to an article I read in BusRide magazine that all the staff at the former Flxible parts unit was hired by NABI and are still in Deleware, OH. It would really be nice if Flxible comes back they are excellent buses!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Grumman sold off Flxible at one point. GAC I believe bought them but I could be wrong on that but I do know Grumman sold off Flxible.
Grumman ran the company as a true division and Flxible's name was rarely used as they called the bus a Grumman 870 and not a Flxible 870 (before the Metro design). Ads I have of the 870 period don't have the Flxible name on them at all.
In the last years of Flxible's existence, they were still a division of whoever took them over last (GAC?) but it was run as though it was a separate company.
RDChilds
Yeah, GAC seems to ring a bell. I believe it stands for General Automotive Corporation, and it is headquartered in Ireland.
When the sale of Flxible took place from Grumman to GAC, there was reference to the effect that GAC had already owned them prior to their sale to Rohr Corporation, before going to Grumman.
NYC is/was not the only city that disliked Flxible. Memphis,TN had 16 Flxible buses--700-715, with 700 being a strange bus with standard sliding fishbowl windows with an upper fixed part.
MTA (Later MATA) operators hated these buses- some to the extent of sabotaging the bus so they'd get a GMC bus. The flxibles vanished when MATA bought the AM General Bus models (thery had numbers in the 200 series.)
They were plagued by poor quality and rocked from side to side excessively to the point of the operator having to slow down to regain control. These too have been retired.
I dont know what happened to the MAN Artics (500 number series).
Those Memphis Flxibles wound up out in Los Angeles, I believe.
"Mr. Blue" would probably know, he's the LACMTA/SCRTD "expert".
The initial problem they had was the A-frames cracking. These frames are the engine cradle supports, and I recall hearing about at least one incident where the engine dropped from the bus. They were removed from service repeatedly for this problem.
-Hank
I had a Daily News clipping about the Grumman 870 that the engine fell out of... I never did know the fleet number, but it was a bus assigned to Flushing depot.
Wayne
O.K. here's the scoop on what happened to the Flxible 870's in NYC. Yes it is true that NY had more than there fair share of problems with those buses. Also, other cities had problems also. But NYC had it the worst which is why they were pulled. REASON: When these buses were being built, 2 different engines were offered, along with 2 different chassis. NYC transit ordered these buses with the bigger engine which is supposed to be coupled to the heavier chassie. However since capital funding was much less in those days and money was not as abundent as it is today, Transit decided to save money and go with the standard chassie which was not recommended by Flxible. Because NYC does not have the smoothest road in the country, the chassie could not take the strain with the larger engine and many of them cracked which caused most of the problems. This is also why that engine fell out and if I remember correctly, that was when the decision was made to pull those buses from service. I don't know what kind of deal transit worked out with Flxible but I suspect they each went 50/50 on the loss except for the money made on the sale of those buses. Transit was advised not to order those buses with the large engine on the lighter chassie but Flxible never should have filled that order. So Flxible probably gave about a 50% reimbursement to transit. You can still see these buses running on Jamaica Bus Lines and I believe I saw some down in Atlantic City a few years ago. You can tell they were NYC's because of the emergency lights on both sides of the front destination sign.(only NYC uses that as far as I know). I would sure like to know what modifications were done to these buses because they seemed to be running ok after they were sold off. BIG AL
As for those emergency lights used on NYCTA buses, Boston also uses them but theirs are green. I have no idea what they are used for in Boston though.
Houston had them on some old fishbowls -- a company I worked for bought some ex-Houston buses, and the switch to turn them on was marked "Express Lights". They flashed on and off, simultaneously, when the switch was on.
Ummm...didn't the vast majority of NYCT(A)'s Grumman 870s have the 6V-71 engine? What engine should have been coupled with the chassis that was ordered?
David
Don't know the stats on the engines. Just know it should have been the smaller engine to what was in there or the heavier chassis. BIG AL
The Grumman 870's had either a Detroit 6V71 or a Detroit 8V71.
The 8V71 would obviously be even heavier, not lighter.
You may have noticed a few strange posts the past week or so, posted by "S.4skin" -- and also by "Mr. Blue".
Both these "handles" are one and the same person, a Sean Davies, of Los Angeles, California. (Notice how the "Source Code" shows 209.240.200.xxx for both "S.4skin" and "Mr. Blue". Posting from WebTV, eh, Mr. Davies?)
Sean Davies enjoyed engaging in deviated behavior, such as the post regarding working at MTA LI Bus, etc. In truth, Sean Davies is a lazy slob who does nothing but ride LACMTA buses all day long, pestering drivers (and passengers). He does NOT work a job. He lives off his parents. In fact, he got fired from a job with a bus company in the San Francisco area.
Most of the bus fans in California detest this person, for very good reasons. Another of his deviate doings was to try and con a well-known bus fan out of some scale models and slides, claiming to be an organizer for a historical society for a transit operator. The transit operator in question was notified of this event, as were other transit operating agencies in that area. They are all aware of Sean Davies' practices now!
In closing, I urge everyone here to beware of Sean Davies, a.k.a. "S.4skin", "Mr. Blue" and "Methanol1@webtv.net" as well as "RTD1978@webtv.net" He will try and con everyone he can out of whatever they have. This hobby does NOT need people like Sean Davies of Los Angeles, California.
wow, you sure seem to know alot about this person. For someone who is so detested in the CA area, you know all his handles, his jobs, his life and whatever else. LOOK IN YOUR CLOSET BEFORE YOU SPEAK.I have dealt with Sean on many occasions and yes... he can be irritating. But he is a totally loyal friend and has always been there when I needed him, more than I can say for you... Just remember bus 156, and the lies that you told to get it back. ENOUGH SAID
Fair warning to Mr. Hoskins who is a complete and
total pathological liar. If he continues
impersonating my son to the point of using Sean's
true name attached to these insane rants, there will
be repercussions in a manner befitting such
behavior. This is about transit, not rejected
advances. I do not find this funny, amusing, or in
any way befitting adults. Slander and libel are
still prosecutable offenses. Next time, Mr. Hoskins,
don't use your own server. Employers don't
appreciate employee e-mail abuse. And on a personal
note, you rat fuck, I will ream you a new asshole if
you ever attempt to malign my son again in any way,
shape or form. Hell will be a mother's kiss compared
to my fury. Stick to transit, slick.
Listen ALL! I do NOT want Dave Pirmann to take away this board once again. It has been going along fine for the past few months since he has installed a handle and password to use Bus and Subtalk. And as far as the rules for this board are concerned, you are allowed to have 1 and ONLY 1 handle per person. If he finds out that you have more than 1 handle, he has the right to take you off of this board. So if I were you, I'd watch your step. Use 1 and only 1 handle. Thank you!
Q46#8357Gary
MM2000
FYI, the next time he has to wipe it will likely be the last time.
-Hank
Do you have anything else to do rather than talk about other people and their past?
let's imagine a first run was run A, a second run was run B, and a third one was one C, in chronological order. Now C takes A's run, B takes C's run, and A is nowhere to be found. What is this???
THE M14!!!!!!
R142 Boi 2K
LOLOL!!!
Is the Harlem River Drive legal for all buses or only those with franchises like Liberty or TA ?
All buses.
All buses with NYCDOT Parkway permits.
-Hank
I'm 99.372% sure it's all buses.
By state law, a parkway is off-limits to commercial traffic. This includes all buses, trucks, and vehicles with commercial plates (If I were home, I'd cite the VTL) Problem in NYC is that many drivers from out of the tri-state area don't understand 'No Commercial Traffic' as 'No Trucks'
Trucks are excepted only for highway service vehicles (tow trucks, pthole trucks, lamp replacement trucks) and emergency vehicles (obviously). Livery cabs with passengers are exempt, and buses of any type require a permit from the agency responsible for the road maintainence, in the case of NYC, that's NYCDOT. In the case of the NY section of the Palisades, it's NYSDOT.
-Hank
If a bus travels on the PIP in NJ and NY, does it need 2 permits?
No. Only one permit issued by the Palisades Interstate Park Commission which is a bi-state agency like the Port Authority.
WRONG TEVI, Only the TA's M98 and Liberty Line BxM1!
R142 Boi 2K
And the 10,000 motorcoaches from various companies.
In todays Newsday, 4/13/00, reports that the state will come up with $8.7M to preserve LI Bus's operation and prevent any routes from being eliminated. $4 million each from the Senate and the Assembly; $680,000 from Pataki.
I'll believe it when I see it.
wayne
Yes it appears that the State Lawmakers & Gov. Pataki are comming up with $8.7 M to plug the LI Bus budget hole, B-U-T read on to the end of the article and you'll see that looser Gulotta's responce to this is to grab another $3M this year and $7M next year out of LI Bus's budget. Can we impeach a County Exec., I think it's time !
Mr t__:^)
Where will the State get the $8 million to "save" L.I.Bus? From NYCT, of course!
It's the same old attitude at work here - the city has to send money to the 'burbs, because they're *insufficiently* oversubsidized. (In plain English, we city folk are supposed to pay everyone else's fair share on top of our own.)
Mr.Hoskins-
I do not know who you are other than your slandarous
postings against me as witnessed on this message board.
I am unaware of who you are reffering to on this letter as
this alleged S.4skin charachter of yours but this type of
behavior is tottaly unnapropriate for this type of
interest.
Yes I am Methanol1 as seen in proir postings and I find
your information and your related acts after this incident
to be an act of computer PIRACY and hope you are aware of
the implications that you may invoke upon yorself.
I further hope that the webmaster of this site acts
accordingly with your unfounded lies and acusations.
To all all serious busfan you are doing nothing more than
blighting this hobbiy and are acting such as a child would
react in a simiar situation.
M1
I suggest you research your information sir before you go
on yelling at people
Saw her on Q11 this morning with Aluminum wheels in the front and Steel wheels in the rear. Sign was supposedly working. This was ex-QS 705. Also I noticed that the windows are brand new. Why didn't they do that with the TMC buses 1143-1149? And the 1000s are still going strong at GBL...for now. Saw 1013 on the Q10.
Q60#5503Gary
TransiTALK has it's own domain now.
Please access TransiTALK via it's new URL at:
http://www.transitalk.com
Thanks
R142 Boi 2K
Saw it this morning on the 36 at Bradley & 7 Locks (this time, I had no way of getting it). It is a 97 bus, I forget the unit number. I'm not sure if it is the same bus I saw on the 23 on Wednesday.
BTW, I'm beating all of you in seeing these buses, I got 2, the rest of you haven't seen it. For the heck of it, let's see who sees it the most (DC Area Talkers, we get our own little competition).
You'll probably win. Even though I live in Montgomery County - I spend most of my time on DC and Fairfax counties.
Wayne
But we have a better chance than any other SubTalkers.
I see the 23, 29, 36, 38, and 47 routes almost daily, so far seen the bus on the 23 and 36.
You're right about that. I don't see those routes too often. I often pass through Silver Spring and I see the 2,5,12,13,14,15,16,17,19, 20, 28 and 48 pretty often.
Wayne
For those of you that are interested there is a website that will tell you the history of the english doubledecker tour buses that have become a familiar sight on the city's streets. I became interested in them after encountering them while driving my route in midtown. Here is the site and instructions on finding the correct link: http://www.busweb.co.uk/ Scroll down to Enthusiasts and click on British Buses in North America. Click on Bus links. Scroll down to New York and click British doubledecker buses in New York.
Those buses are interesting and classic, but they are representative of London and don't belong in New York.
I for one would not waste my money to spend 90 minutes on a banged up deathtrap with wobbly tires and smoke spewing pipes that don't represent classic New York-ana in any way, shape or form.
If the genious behind the DD's actually used his brain to think, he would have used refurbished Macks or GMC's (Fishbowls) painted in their classic colors. They would use the old 'TA' logo (with permission) and call themselves the Tour Authority or NYCTA - New York City Tour Authority.
That would be the ultimate New York City tour that both tourists and locals would enjoy.
***I am not attempting to insult the double-deckers. They are interesting and classic buses, but they are not New York!
THe problem is, as those tourist buses stop, no one thinks that they are transit buses. But if you start using those vintage coaches your talking about, they WILL be mistaken for transit buses. We've got enough problems with the SI Express buses where people get on, and then are shocked at the $3 fare.
Another advantage to the double deckers is the open top on most of them. With so much of tourist NY UP, this is an advantage.
Oh, while those buses are exempt at this time from emissions regulations (they're working on this), they do get the required safety inspections every 6 months.
-Hank
The easiest way to tell if a bus is equipped with a transmission output retarder is to look for the "system off" light which is located just above the headlights on the left side. On RTS's the light is red. On Orions and New Flyer articulated's the light is yellow. If the light is illuminated it means the system has been turned off. This is to be done only during inclement weather as use of the system on wet roads could cause the bus to skid. Some operators turn the system off because they don't like the way it slows the bus down. The best way to use the system is to apply gradual pressure on the brake until the retarder activates and then ease off slightly once you feel the bus begin to slow down. This system should save the TA money since it will lengthen the service life of the buses brake shoes.
What are the differences between the Orions and RTSs?
The Orions seem to slow down quicker.
I don't know of any specific differences between the RTS & the Orion V. Like any thing else mechanical each bus has it's own unique characteristics. In speaking to drivers on the BX12 I've come to learn that the newest New Flyer articulated buses have a very effective retarder. The bus begins to slow down immediately after the accelerator is released.
this system is not working. some of our mci buses retarders come on as soon as foot is lifted from accelerator. brake is not even activated. on an orion the retarder was activated until the bus reached20 mph. these retarders are just more waste of money.
Yes, it increases the life of the brake shoes, but it increases the wear on the drivetrain.
-Han
there were some injuries no deaths as two GMC type buses one fran into the side of another at an angle
yesterday !! i drove a bus before and had a lot of respect for my equipment !!!
this accident was on the news on tv all day in southern california !!
The two TMC RTS 06's involved in this incident were 2337 and 2381.
2337 was pulling out from ivision 2 and slammed into 2381 which was in sevice at the intersection of 16th-Maple.
2337 was likely pulling out to Maple Lot Terminal 17 for line 10.
M1
you called it better than i did !! driving a bus thru downtown los angeles is not easy to do !!!
The DASH incident was not too far from my house.
I forget the numbers but a Neoplan CNG 6700 workng the 204 south narrowly missed bieng the second bus to be involved in this incident and swerved out to block traffic.
The MTA operator in this incidents name was Van Horn for those interested.
M1(the M1 and only)
i heard no follow up on that dash accident jut like how there is no follow up on how bad FOOTHILL TRANSIT
abuses and misuses its bus drivers !!
..........I remember when a DASH bus ran out of control ( no brakes )........ remember that disaster ??
I don't know if it's bad luck or what, but on Thursday I was riding bus 192 on the N21 and it kept stalling out. It stalled out once in Queens and took a few minutes to restart. Then it stalled out again when turning onto Middle Neck road, blocking traffic. It would not re-start right away, but did after 6 minutes.
Then it stalled out again before Great Neck LIRR. It did take a few minutes to restart only to stall out again around the circle. It made it to the Great Neck LIRR bus stop, but not much farther as it stalled out again just as it pulled away. The driver finally gave up and radioed for another bus. It's weird the way Orion CNG's stall, because what happens is when the accelerator is pressed the bus starts to accelerate, then stops. Then we slow to a crawl and the engine stalls.
And there's annoying buzz everytime it happens.
The driver said that it was poor maintanance, when someone asked why these buses keep breaking down.
Friday I was on the N15 to Roosevelt Field on Old Country road in front of the main entrance, with bus 105. The bus started to go when the light turned green but lost power and stalled. It did restart once the bus was stopped from it's roll. Fortunately I got off that bus shortly. I saw another driver there who said that their buses have been stalling out alot too.
I wonder why this is happening, whether it's poor maintanance or the Orion CNG's themselves. I've never had a stall on the diesel Orions LI Bus has. I wonder how Queens Surface is doing with their Orion CNG's.
I rode on several and they seem to run alot better than LI Bus ones (they also use Detroit Diesel engines instead of Cummins used by LI Bus).
Also somebody on the bus that day of the N21 breakdown said the other day a bus ran out of gas. And there was a long line to board that 7:58pm N21 out of Flushing, unusual for that bus, leading me to believe that another bus broke down and didn't make it to Flushing.
Sounds like it had low CNG gas pressure. Most likely it was almost out of gas but a regulator could have been bad or a kinked line could have caused this as well.
RDChilds
John/RD Childs, I can tell you that we and others are experiencing some relatively minor problems with the Orion CNG fleet. In addition you might be interested to learn that my maint. friend was so impressed with the level of detail in your post that he mailed a copy of them to Orion ... so thanks for the input !
BTW, I'm told that if the CNG is low on gas and it stalls it WON'T start again. Another key point is that the depots need to replace the station filters regularly to keep prevent the water & dirt from getting into the bus tanks.
Mr t__:^)
What is the most common problem with Orion CNG's? With the ones we have at LI Bus, alot of them aren't functioning so great. Not only have there been more stalls and breakdowns lately, but the engines seem to really lack power, and the bus bodies have cracks and holes, mainly in the rear. In comparison, the diesel Orions (both 500s and 600s) are in better shape, their bodies are in good shape (some still sporting MSBA logo), and they are pretty reliable.
It could be poor maintanance, but wouldn't poor main. at LI Bus affect all the buses? The diesel fleet (except for the Gilligs) is in good shape, but the CNG fleet has problems.
Also the backsides of the CNG's get so hot you can see the heat rising off the bus.
I was in Flushing today and saw the QSC Orion CNG fleet, which appears to be in much better shape, but the buses are still new. I know Queens Surface uses the DD CNG engine, while LI Bus uses the Cummins L10G. Is Cummins less reliable? I found when I rode on the Orion CNG's from QSC, they had alot more power than the LI Bus Orion CNG's, even when they were new.
In general I like both Orion diesels and Orion CNG's. But I do prefer the design of the Queens Surface CNG's. Engines seem to have alot of power and are more stable, also they are quieter than the LI Bus CNG's.
Also I don't care for the front door (accordian style) on the Orion CNG's at LI Bus, I prefer the standard double door, used on QSC's.
I don't think diesel should be abandoned, but the right kind of CNG bus is a "breath of fresh air" for any bus fleet.
Cummins Engines are a problem. Look a Casey Stengel Buses 291-297 and 299-300. They were out of service for a while. IDK how 9140-9149 are doing at FP I assume they're doing better than CS is.
I don't like the LI Bus CNG'S-the way they sound but I do like the fact that they have a sensor to announce every stop inside although an everyday commuter may find that annoying. QS Orion CNG'S (396-499 LOCAL AND 500-581 EXPRESS) I've heard are doing very well. As more come in, more TMC's are being brought to other DOT companies. And they want to replace the Giligs and 600 orions they got with more CNG? That should NOT happen.
Q46#8357Gary
The automated announcements are nice, but they are often out of whack, and get screwed up when the bus stalls.
I don't care for the way LI Bus Orion CNG's sound and perform, those Cummins engines are loud as hell and are slow, and the stalling problem can be annoying and an inconvenience.
The QSC Orion CNG's are so much better, design and engines. I think LI Bus should replace the Cummins (piece of crap) with the DD engines Queens Surface is using. The LI Bus fleet of Orion CNG needs an overhaul, the bus interiors need to be redone, with the kind of seats QSC uses (not the hard plastic ones), and the bodies themselves (lots of cracks and holes) need to be overhauled too.
LI Bus riders deserve reliable buses, not buses that stall often and break down which can be a major inconvienence, especially in areas where buses don't run as often. Why hasn't LI Bus purchased the Orion CNG buses with the DD engine like Queens Surface uses? Also the standard double doors open and close alot quicker than the stupid accordian style on the LI Bus Orion CNG's.
The Gilligs aren't in great shape, and really should be retired. However the 500 and 600 diesel Orions are in fine shape (better than the CNG's!) and replacing them would be a big mistake.
Doesn't NYCT have Orion CNG's in a few depots? What I kind of engine do they use? I bet it's the DD (Detroit Diesel).
My personal opinion is the Cummins L10G is a piece of crap, and MTA would only buy buses with these engines for the "second class" riders of LI Bus.
orions use detroit diesel at nyct but transit 5000 series a certain amount may have cummmins engines.
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317 is a 1994 model of the Orion CNG. 581-610 are 1995 models of the Orion CNG. I believe they use the DD50 engine. There are NO 5000 models that use the Cummins Engine. 5075-5124 have a ZDF transmission rather than the DD50. Buses 9140-9149 out of FP Depot and 291-297, 299-300 out of CS are the only MTA Buses that use the Cummins Engine.
Q46#8357Gary
<,font color="blue">
"5075-5124 have a ZDF transmission rather than the DD50."
DD50=An engine.
ZDF Transmission=A transmission.
Besides, it's ZF, not ZDF.
David
You see, very few of NYCT's buses use a Cummins engine. Most agencies choose Detroit Diesel over Cummins, because Cummins is unreliable and a piece of crap.
I've been on those 290s Orions out CS and they run like crap. I also see them breaking down alot.
LI Bus made a big mistake using Cummins in their Orion CNG's, and now we're paying with it with unreliable buses that have frequent problems with engine stall, the most common. Of course the still troubled LI Bus keeps making costly mistakes instead of doing it right the first time (using DD which has a much better reliable record than Cummins). I believe the diesel Orions LI Bus has have DD's, as well as the Gilligs, though as somebody recently brought up, these diesel buses are going to retired to be replaced with the same style of Orion CNG that they are using currently, even though the Orion diesels are in fine shape. Even though the state pledged 8 million to keep LI Bus routes in service, Gulotta plans another 3 million dollar cut in the subsidy, and won't contribute next year either. How the hell can they even afford to buy more CNG buses and maintain the ones they have, which keep breaking down?
What can I expect from a county that keeps wasting money. I remember Gulotta "bragging" about how those whole fleet will be CNG and that all diesels will be gone by 2002 or something, last year on Cablevision. Now he could care less about LI Bus.
My opinion is they should have stuck with diesels until they could afford CNG. And when they did get CNG buses they should've gotten Orions with the reliable DD engine, not those crappy Cummins.
As a LI Bus rider, I was angered at the cuts. Now I expect a bus to run properly most of time when I ride it, not konk out and break down every week.
NYCT purchases dependable buses. Queens Surface purchases dependable buses. Doesn't Nassau county deserve the same?
317 is a 1994 model of the Orion CNG. 581-610 are 1995 models of the Orion CNG. I believe they use the DD50 engine. There are NO 5000 models that use the Cummins Engine. 5075-5124 have a ZDF transmission rather than the DD50. Buses 9140-9149 out of FP Depot and 291-297, 299-300 out of CS are the only MTA Buses that use the Cummins Engine.
Q46#8357Gary
The problem with the current generation of CNG buses is that they are deseil buses that are modified to use CNG. You will see problems with CNG buses reduced when manufactures design buses to run on CNG from the GROUND UP.
Well all of the LI Bus Orion CNG's were originally designed as CNG buses. I believe the problem is with the Cummins engines themselves, and the poor maintanance of the buses which so many of LI Bus drivers have told me.
Li Bus recieved these buses from the factory running CNG. The buses themselves and the engines were designed to be desiel buses. They were adapted by the manufacturer to run on CNG. Take a look at the RTS for example. It was designed for Deseil fuel and over the years it has been modified to use CNG, ethenol etc. If the MTA would for example tell manufactures that it would only buy CNG the manufactures would spend their R&D money on developing a bus that only ran best on CNG. Current CNG buses are like riding lawn mowers that were converted to go carts. Yes they run, but if the go gart was designed from scratch it would be would be a beter cart
What would be in a design that is optimized for CNG, as opposed to a design that originally was meant for diesel but was adapted? As far as I can tell, a bus body is a bus body is a bus body.
David
Try imagining a go-kart with the seat 5 feet off the ground.
You're right. But the suspension, engine, and roof supports need to be modified, and this adds weight. Since CNG range is already limited, making the bus lighter extends the range.
-Hank
[ ... and roof supports need to be modified ... ]
This is still evolving as our first batch had 12 tanks, while the newer ones have only 8 on the roof.
Mr t__:^)
At about 11 AM Saturday morning, there was a Queens Surface Bus pulled over in the toll Plaza located at New Rochelle on the Northbound I-95.
It appeared that the bus was stuck. There were also two NY State Trooper cars near the bus. I couldn't get the number but it was still in the Orange Livery. It still appeared to belong to the company. It was an RTS model bus.
Did anyone else see this? I wonder why would the bus be going north on the I-95?
Thanks
hi gang --anyone from fresh pond road depot---i was now operating in fla. hope to hear from someone
thanks bear
You have one or two here that either work or worked out of Fresh Pond. The depot recently got a newer facility on the site. What system are you driving with now?
Check out the auctions by kresges.
He sells a lotta good bus stuff... :)
Thank you very much sir, MR. ROBOTO!!!
WHAT THE URL TEVI-MR,M9 MAN????????
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
Whenever someone tells you the name of a site, don't you think the URL would be site-name.com? Even if it isn't, would it hurt to try?
read pig's post. it's @ www.ebay.com
Up here in Rockland County where I live there was recently a proposal to allow commuter buses to use the Palisades Interstate Parkway. It was shouted down by many of the politicaly powerful old timers. They are still under the impression that Rockland County is rural like it was 50 years ago. The truth however is that it is all about money. Charter buses going to Bear Mountain or any park in the Harriman State Park system can use the PIP as long as they purchase a $30 permit. On Saturdays & Sundays there are wall to wall charter coaches with permits on the PIP bound for these parks. Even on weekdays there are many groups from the inner city headed north on the PIP on charter coaches with permits often in large caravans of 8 to 10 coaches. The ironic thing is that these coaches are the very same ones that brought commuters into the city earlier via other routes being used for these park charters between the commuter hours. If the commuter coaches were allowed to use the PIP to the GW and then come down the West Side Highway to 57th St. it would cut 30 minutes off the present run which uses the Garden State Parkway, Route 17, Route 80 and The NJ Turnpike to the Lincoln Tunnel.
Just a quick question -- was the permit systemin effect around 1981-82 for tour/charter buses?
I don't remember having to get one, in the one trip I made from bear Mountain down to NYC when I used to work for a company out of Washington, DC.
The same permit that that is purchased to park the bus at Bear Mountain also entitles you to use the Palisades Interstate Parkway. The reason that you were not aware of it is that it is the group or organization (chartering party), that is responsible to obtain the permit, not the bus company. The bus company is not supposed to accept the charter unless they are certain that the client has obtained the permit.
Okay, thanks. I just didn't seem to remember any paperwork about the situaton -- but the company I worked for did run regular tours every week, that used PIP from Bear Mountain down to NYC.
In my opinion, if you don't have a permit, nothing will happen.
For 3 or 4 years and counting I've been taking buses (mostly motorcoaches from Shortline BEFORE it was bought by Coach USA) along the PIP, we had permits, but nowhere in view of any other vehicles, one time another bus even rode with a stalk of wheat hanging out its front door, and nobody got stopped.
The fact that you had the permits is why you were not stopped, even though they were not visible. The PIP is patrolled by their own Parkway police not by state troopers. They are notified in advance by their office that Short Line or any other carrier will have x amount of buses at Bear Mountain that day. When the chartering party applies for the permit, they must list the name of the bus company they are using. The PIP Commission then verifies this information with the carrier.
Two things:
One, I guess they know this even if the buses don't go to Bear Mountain. None of the ones I were on where went there.
Two, but what about the thing with the wheat stalk?
Permits are not only for Bear Mountain but any State Park administered by the Palisades Interstate Park Commission. As far as the wheat stalk goes they probably never noticed it.
z
Yes, that made perfect sense.
I message closer to the 100,000th message.
Could anyone tell me when and where the next Busfest is going to be? And...did I miss the Roadeo?
When and where is the next busfest? And...did I miss the roadeo?
Watching Ch 74 (Cablevision) and the NYC Council Committee on Transportaion hearing of 3/23/00 rebroadcast, and they're touching on 100st depot and fleet emissions reductions. I can't identify either of the speakers, and the city council guy is the idiot(Councilman Lopez?) I refer to. (of course, watching more of it, I see more idiots. The TA guy is Sr Vice President Dept of Buses.
He's repetedly asking about CNG and diesel buses; and he actually stated that since the TA currently has no plans for alternately fueled or hybrid artics, that the construction of 100st will preclude the TA from using alt-fuel equipment in the future! He also made statements to the effect that once you build the depot to accomodate artics, it cannot accomodate ANY other buses.
A female council member (Margarita Lopez) is now bugging out that the TA guy doesn't know how much $$$ the new facility at 126st will cost. She's also bitching about how 126st has 172 buses, and will be expanded to 180; so "not only are you going to rebuild this depot, but you are going to expand it, and [we] are supposed to be happy?"
They're also asking why they are going to convert Manhattanville to CNG, but not MCH or 126st.
Noach Dear is now putting an end to the hearing. They're also implying that $90M is 'too much' for a bus depot. ("Not for a multi-level facility in Manhattan, I think it's cheap!" and "Transit Buses cause less than 1% of the citywide particulate emmissions" says the VP; of course, the council is not looking at the 'Big Picture')
They're also saying 'How does a reduction in fleet emissions affect the asthma rates of the people of Harlem?' MORONS!
These people are idiots. Program was City Hall Today.
-Hank
I should say, part 2 of this hearing will be rebroadcast within the next few hours on ch74 (Cablevision)
-Hank
You just reaalized that the city council is filled with idiots. Term limits have just made it worst. They are right about one thing. NO NEW DESIEL DEPOTS SHOULD BE BUILT. THe MTA should use it's might with manufactures to come up with a CNG and/or HYBRID artics. Even though transit vehicles contribute only 1% of particular emmisions citywide. That 1% is a known cancer and asthma causer.
The problem with CNG is it requires a large open space for a fueling area, which is generally not available in Manhattan.
-Hank
Then why are they making Manhattanville CNG?
Manhattanville doesn't even have any outdoor parking!!
I only repeated what they said on the tube. Maybe they have some ideas, maybe, since the facility is multi-leel, they're planning a rooftop facility. Maybe the fuel station will be off-site, but within a few blocks so as not to make a difference in the range equation.
-Hank
Some facts:
1. CNG carries with it some high costs: conversion of depots (which may not even be possible in all cases), more expensive buses, lower reliability (which translates into higher maintenance costs), reduced storage capacity in the depots (which means more depots will be needed -- and depots aren't free), and so on.
2. Today's diesel engines give off only about 6% of the pollutants given off by older models and are now nearly equal to CNG engines in cleanliness -- they surpass CNG engines in some measures.
3. What is a bus doing for almost the entire time it's in the depot? It's sitting there, with the engine off! How much does it matter what fuel powers the bus when it's off?
4. East Harlem is not the only location in the city that has a bus garage, but it seems to be the only one concerned about asthma. What about New Springville (Yukon, Staten Island), Flushing (Casey Stengel, Queens), Co-Op City (Gun Hill, Bronx), or Bensonhurst (Ulmer Park, Brooklyn), for example? Why don't these areas seem to have asthma problems? I'm not saying that diesel engines aren't a contributing factor, but obviously they're not the only factor, or these neighborhoods would be screaming about asthma, too.
David
there is definitely a big asthma problem in new springville and the areas surrounding yukon depot which many blame on the dump. perhaps they should blame nyct
even if buses are idle when they are started they create tremendous amounts of pollution. visit yukon at 7am and youll be running out holding your nose. of course transit cares nothing about this not proposing a cng depot here.
Yukon Depot has been there for 20 years. How long has the dump been there?
David
80. And some genius just built several townhouses right across the street from Yukon.
-Hank
And some even bigger geniuses bought the townhouses across from Yukon, and are now complaining about the "brand new" bus garage in their back yards.
If the depot was there before you. SHAME ON YOU. you should have known what you are getting into. It is like the people who live near the airport in queens complaining about aicraft noise
Fresh Kills landfill opened in 1948, it was to be a 'temporary' facility. The townhomes on those little streets off of Platinum Avenue were sold very quickly. The houses at the far ends of these blocks are right across from the Yukon depot. Go figure. At least the real estate people weren't lying when the said the homes were near transportation.
The people who buy homes near a landfill temporary or not are the idiots. They fail to realize that the dangers of the landfill remain evean afther it closes.
And this doesn't make them idiots?
If you head closely he said they are the idiots.
If you read closely he said they are the idiots.
the homes in question were sold mainly to people from the other boroughs. the builder advertised them as being on forest hill road and gave directions to take xway to that exit. he never told them about the depot on yukon ave. you can still argue that they may have been idiots but outside of bus mavens people from brooklyn have no idea of depot locations on staten island or brooklyn.
I didn't say they were idiots, I said he said they were idiots.
Nobody reads anything here.
I wasn't saying that the originator of this thread didn't say they are idiots. I was reiterating that to the person to whom I responded (whew!).
And the people WERE idiots for not looking at the property before buying, they deserve their fate as a reward for their stupidity.
I know you werent saying that I was saying that what you were saying was related to the last thing that the other person said that you said that he was saying.
[Even though transit vehicles contrubute only 1% of partculate emissions city-wide....]
That's just it - ONLY ONE PERCENT!!! How about doing something to mitigate the other 99%, without wasting public dollars on a very expensive and volatile fuel technology that happens to be the "in" thing?
Besides, the emissions problems associated with diesel have already been largely mitigated through the use of trap oxidizers.
You are misinformed. A properly installed and operated CNG deopot SAVES PUBLIC DOLARS. In Sunday April 16, 2000 edition of the NY Times MONEY AND BUSINESS section page 4 last paragraph
"natural gas has been selling for the equialent of $0.75(retail)...for buses that use thousands of gallons a year, he said, swiching is a NO BRAINER"
FACT
1. Price of CNG is less volitile. (the MTA is expected to pay $100
million more this year on fuel because the rise in price of
desiel)
2. trap oxidizers do reduce the amount of particles, but the MTA's
own study released last month shows that a hybrid(extra $$$)
with advanced trap oxidizers not commercially available will
reduce. But the particles released from the desiel are larger
and cause cancer and asthma while the cng's particles are much
cleaner
the particula emmision to aproximitly the amount of a standard
CNG)
CNG is not the "in thing" it is the future of public transporttion.
FUEL CELLS run best on HYDROGEN which is a gas similar to CNG and the most readily available source of H is CNG. The MTA will need to convert there depots to CNG anyway. The most cost effective way to make this transiton is to have all new and renovated depots be converted to CNG. by the way I am an ACCOUNTANT and I have run the #### a thousand times. DESIEL $1.50 a gallon CNG $0.75 a gallon equivalant. * 2 million gallons a year = a savings if $1.5 million .
Question:
What is the fuel mileage of a CNG bus vs. a diesel bus?
If CNG is less expensive than diesel fuel (which it wasn't until very recently), but the fuel mileage isn't as good, then diesel fuel may still be the better deal.
David
your a smart man David. Over the last few years the price of Deseil was low because of the asian finacial crises.
What is the fuel mileage of a CNG bus vs. a diesel bus?
The main reason Deseil fuel is not banned as a toxix substance is that it gets the most miles per gallon of any fuel around.
Early CNG systems had terrible fuel milage plus could not hold a compareable amount of fuel as a deseil thus reducing range. But newer engine designs have increased fuel economy and new tank materials have increased the capasity of tanks and reduced there weight. Over the last couple of years bus manufactures have spent alot of $$$ on R&D of CNG technology thus an improved product.
STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT DESEIL EXUST IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN CIGARETTE SMOKE. THATS A FACT
PS I am a objective observer who is a huge bus fan and a accountant who believes that we should work to reduce polution in a resonable and cost effective way
I agree that pollution should be reduced in a reasonable and cost-effective way. I just don't agree that CNG is the reasonable and cost-effective way we are seeking. CNG undeniably has certain benefits, but not as many as the Natural Resources Defense Council and certain others would have us believe. Moreover, most, if not all, of the benefits of CNG are replicated by current diesel technology, at a lower cost. Further, other technologies that are more expensive than diesel at this point but might not be thus forever, such as hybrid (which can be CNG/electric as well as diesel/electric, by the way) and fuel cell, exist and have more environmental benefits than CNG. Lastly, while the Hudson-Bergen light rail line opened across the Hudson River just yesterday (and, by the way, jealous New Yorkers can see the line from lower Manhattan!), there is no movement to bring either light rail or ETB (electric trolley bus) to New York City. I have to wonder why the so-called environmentalists are ignoring these technologies, which have only been available for several decades.
My position remains firm: the costs involved in converting to CNG -- even if it only involves new depots -- far outweigh the benefits. There are other, less expensive, and potentially better ways of dealing with the pollution given off by New York City's public buses. Even beyond that, New York City's public buses represent but a small fraction of the total vehicles used in New York City on a typical day. Converting each and every bus to run on some other fuel (even water, if a way could be found to do it) wouldn't solve the problem. What it would do is force NYCT to spend millions of capital and operating dollars on CNG (depots and vehicles through capital funds, maintenance through operating funds) that would be better spent on other things, like new subway lines (which would reduce dependence on buses -- where's the NRDC on THAT?) and additional service.
David
I agree on many of your points. As we both know advocates from both sides of the argument often exagerate the bennifits of their technology. What I don't want to see happen is that, as many experts are predicting is that MTA NYC TRANSIT will be stuck in a position where it is using a technology that no one else is using thus costing them extra for the same products. Early adopters to CNG like any other new technology are forced to deal with all the bugs of the technology. I don't agree that CNG is not the answer to what we are looking for. As I stated earlier that Fuel Cells buses will most likely be designed to run on CNG. Thus the cost of conversion will be needed to be made anyway. It is true that buses operated by MTA NYC TRANSIT represent a small fraction of pollution emmited every day in NYC, but technology developed for the use on transit buses will make there way into other vehicles and provide an example to others on the merits of using alternative fuels.
ONE FACTOR YOU FAIL TO OVERLOOK is that deseil and other petrolium products are mostly foreign products in which we depend on OPEC to set the price of the fuel. The MTA is estimated to be paying $100 million more this year for desiel fuel than last year. I would love to see zere emmisions vehicles such as electric buses but the technology a practile model is years away.
BY the way according to POPULAR SCIENCE april issue the cost of cars powered by Fuel Cells is expected to be less than Cars powered by internal combustion due to the fact that there will be less parts to assemble. THAT SOUNDS LOKE GREAT NEWS
I didn't overlook that much of the diesel fuel used in the U.S. is produced in the Middle East. That's why I mentioned light rail and trolley buses! Besides, the U.S. exports a great deal of oil. To paraphrase Larry Littlefield from the SubTalk side of things: "You keep yours, we'll keep ours." But of course nobody has the political wil to make that happen.
David
That's great, but as mas transit vehicles, and additionally as state-owned and operated vehicles, they are exempt from all fuel taxes, so they're actually paying between 80 and 95 cents per gallon. Additionally, CNG fueled buses have a reduced range (about 250 vs 300 miles to the fillup) which would require either more deadheading to fuel the equipment, or more buses to replace those that need to be pulled from the road for fueling. You need 1 extra bus for every 3, simply because of the range consideration.
CNG is also more volitile than diesel. Diesel fuel, which has a high boiling point, will not explode in most circumstances. It will, however, burn.
CNG exists in a pressurized environment, as an explosive gas. in an unpressureized environment, the gas is lighter than air, (methane being the chief componant) but if a tank fails, it will fail violently (I've seen the tapes of the tests; a .22 didn't damage the tank more than cosmetically. What did break it was repeated shots from a .45, previous damage not withstanding) and it did fail violently. Pieces of the tank become shrapnel, and you get an instant fireball that sucks the oxygen from an area twice the size of the fireball. In an enclosed environment, this would result in death by asphixiation, which I'm pretty sure is an unplesant experience. As would be burning, although the actual flash fire from the CNG explosion is out in seconds, but any other flammables nearby will also ignite, including many ordinarily non-flamable objects, as the heat generated is in the 2300 to 3200 degree range.
-Hank
I agree range issues and fueling issues will have to be addressed. If MTA got serious about CNG they could use there influence on manufactures to pore money int R&D to improve these shortcomings. It took deseil technology many years to be as reliable as it currently is.
PS If you shot .45's into a deseil tank repeatedly it would explode violently also. It is those violent explosions which propell the pistons which drive the crankshaft
Saw this bus on GCP heading EASTBOUND past LIE. 433 is an AMS bus. It can't head to Atlantic Diesel cause MTA buses are forbidden to use GCP past Little Neck Pkwy. I wonder if:
A: This bus was given to us for the trade of 224-226?
B: Where this bus was going to if headed east on GCP Past LIE?
Q46#8357Gary
might be avoiding traffic and taking GCP to clearview and back to LIE
I challenge all the CNG haters to post FACTs from scientists or news reports that shows that
1. CNG IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN DESIEL
2. THE CLEANEST POSSIBLE DESIEL BUSES EMMIT LESS CANCER AND ASMA
CAUSING EMMISIONS
3. CNG IS MORE EXPENSIVE TO OPERATE THAN DESEIL.
From "Riders' Group Doubtful of Natural Gas Buses" -- New York Times, February 23, 2000, Page B3:
"After reviewing bus emissions tests and health studies, the riders' group, whose 15 members are appointed by the governor, said too many questions remained about the environmental benefits of natural gas over other alternatives to diesel fuel, which now powers most New York City Transit buses. It recommended that the city continue on its present course of investing more money in hybrid buses, which use small diesel engines to power electric motors attached to the wheels.
"Beverly J. Dolinsky, executive director of the riders' gorup, said that even the most conservative estimates of the cost of converting the city's fleet to natural gas seemed unreasonable at a time when experts have begun to cast doubt on whether natural gas will endure as the best environmental option."...
"Last week, the Northeast Alternative Vehicle Consortium, a nonprofit agency that analyzes vehicle pollution, released the results of yearlong tests of New York buses that found that new hybrid diesel buses, using certain exhaust filters and low-sulfur fuel, can run as cleanly as natural gas buses in many respects.
"The report came a month after a study by the Harvard School of Public Health that found that natural gas buses may produce more ultrafine particles of pollution than diesel. Several other studies have indicated that those ultrafine particles could pose a greater health threat than the larger particles produced by diesel buses."
The "riders' group" in question is the NYC Transit Riders Council.
I met two out of the three challenges (#2 and #3) without breaking a sweat. Anyone working at Jackie Gleason Depot can meet #1. What do I win? :-)
David
Don't count your chickens before they hatch.
I agree the entire fleet should not be converted to CNG. YOU will be junking buses and depots with plenty of life in them. A waste of taxpayers money. On the otherhand we should not be investing in dirty desiel buses. This study is flawed in many ways.
1. it assumes the city will retire all desiel buses right away.
2. It used low sulfer fuel which costs more
3. used hybrid buses which are $100,000 more than CNG and the
program used to develope the hybrid is heavily financed by NYS
4. used exhaust filters not currently on the market(they were
specially designed for this project and VERY EXPENSIVE)
ADD ALL THAT UP and the fact that Depots will need to be converted in 10 years to CNG anyway. It just makes sense to include CNG in all new depots.
A slow conversion to CNG is the way to go. As depots need to be renovated, convert them to CNG.
FACT : The rate of CANCER AND ASTHMA around dlatbus depot is 60% for people living across the street and the citywide average for people living 4 or mor blocks away - Brooklyn Skyline Jan 2000 issue
I lived two blocks from Flatbush Depot for 17 years and had no trouble breathing, nor did any of my neighbors, as far as I'm aware. By the way, what else is around Flatbush Depot? There is one gas station a short block away (Utica Avenue/Avenue S/Flatbush Avenue triangle), and until the last 5 years or so there were two on Utica Avenue at Avenue O (across from the back end of the depot). Give me a break!
David
The article I was referencing in the brooklyn Skyline(a tabloid trash paper with amature writers) had the figure. They did not disclose the source. The article was in reference to the deseil leak at flatbush depots and infered that the liquid fuel caused the cancer.
It was great debating this issie with a well informed individual and not a NO CNG because it is new character.
PS. If you have not already read it already, read the article "the chicken, the egg and the reign of gasoline" in the Money and Business section of todays NY Times.
BY the way I support requiring all new Taxis to use CNG. Now that gasoline prices are up it makes economic sense. Ford also makes a CROWN VIC CNG model from the factory reducing the headachas of conversion of the vehicle. CNG Filling Stations would pop up all over the city. There is already one on flatbush ave near atlantic ave where I fill up my NYC issued CNG CAR(poor conversion job on these cars caused problem when new)
I read the same article, but I also talked to someone in the know, who informed me that some (not all) of the leakage actually came from gas stations in the area. By the way, I wonder whether the Sanitation facility adjacent to the depot is squeaky-clean in all this.
David
But the overall cost for Hybrids is lower. CNG requires much more infrastructure improvement than a simple fueling station in an open area. First off, new vehicles will be needed. Second, high-pressure gas mains need to be installed to the depots. Then you need to train people in the operation and maintainence of all this new equipment. CNG fuel systems are pressureized all the way to the cylander, which is also more parts that can fail and cause a fire.
Additionally, you have now limited yourself to what equipment can be used where. You can't use a CNG bus at a depot that isn't equipped for CNG operations. The TA is not going to convert all the depots, and if they were to do so, it would not happen overnight. Hybrids are currently the best way to go, without a massive increase in infrastructure spending. Low-sulphur fuel can be used immediately, with immediate results.
-Hank
Does the health of children really have a dolar value. I beleive that hybrid technolgy is a good middle ground. I just wish the TA would stop buying standard deseil(except the new MCI where hybrid is not and option but CNG is available)
CNG is not even an option on the MCI's! The CNG 102D3 is an exclusive model for NJ Transit. MCI is not willing to build this model for other agencies until it can perfect the technology to this type of coach and also unitl there is a real demand for this type of unit. According to NJ Transit, they are having alot of mechanical difficulties with the CNG version of the 102D3 and because of this they have not purchased additional units within their new 1400 unit purchase from MCI. There is an interesting article in the January 2000 or December 1999 issue of Bus Ride which featured an article about NJT and there CNG 102D3's and this is where MCI responded to their reluctancy to build CNG 102D3's for other transit systems.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Can anyone tell how I could obtain a copy of Bus Ride or other industry publications
The address on the web is : www.busride.com and you can get all the information on subscriptions you need from there.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
thanks
Actually in the new MCI order for NJ Transit there is 27 more CNG 102D3 Cruisers coming, they will be the first in the order.
The Order will follow as such:
27 MCI 102-D3 CNG Cruisers
1,293 MCI 102-D3 Diesel Cruisers (Some of these will be custom made 96" wide)
80 MCI 102-DL3 Cruisers (The first 45' in the NJT fleet)
The first buses to come will be the 27 CNG Cruisers between June and July at this time the first two Diesel cruisers will come with the 27 CNG Cruisers. One will tour the Northern & Central Division, while the other tours the Southern Division. The first 365 buses will hit the NJ streets by Christmas. With the others funneling in over 2 years. The DL3 Cruisers will come at the end of the order.
The CNG Cruisers will be numbers 7051-7077 while the Diesels pick up at 4000.
R142 Boi 2K
Does the health of children really have a dolar value. I beleive that hybrid technolgy is a good middle ground. I just wish the TA would stop buying standard deseil(except the new MCI where hybrid is not and option but CNG is available)
Why does equiptment need to be moved from depot to depot. Once assigned a bus should remain at that depot until retired. The repair staff would have an intimate knoewledge of that bus and would be rewarded for a job well done by as properly maintained buses breakdown less. Look at NYBS
NYBS and the other DOT/private carriers can afford a highly agressive maintenance program because every penny they spend on it comes back to them, plus the guaranteed profit margin.
NYCT does not have profit margins, and its single guaranteed (by law) source of funds - the sales tax account - is routinely raided to pay for upstate pork barrels.
I looked at NYBS less than 3 weeks ago. Their equipment looks as if it just came off the factory floor. And each and every one of NYBS's buses operates on diesel fuel :-)
David
The problem with "CLEAN DESEIL" technologies such as the use of hybrid drive and particle filters is that when new they offer somewhat comparable #'s to CNG but over time these cleaning systems degrade over time unless maintance is up to smuff. You know as well as I that the maintance of these systems will be terrible and they will be just as dirty as current buses. I remember when the RTS's first came out there smoke was not as dark as the smoke they emmit today.
I haven't noticed any degredation on buses equipped with the Series 50 engine (8600s and up on the RTSs), but occasionally I will see smoke (sometimes gray or black) coming out of older RTSs.
David
The low 9000's at UP running on the B-3 are starting to spew gray to black smoke. The low sulfer fuels should help a bit. The sulfer clogs the emmision control systems. Sulfer is one of the causes of increased emmisions with cars as they age
I respecfully submit the following:
If CNG is so great that it should be used as a bus fuel AT ALL COSTS, then why do the CNG groupies REFUSE to push for all trucks and automobiles to be converted?????
Trucks and cars provide ONLY 99% (!!) of NYC's particulate emissions, and closer to 100% (!!!) of every other city's emissions. THAT'S where the "advocates" should start.
READ YESTERDAYS TIMES ARTICLE "the chicken, the egg and the reign of gasoline" in the money and bussiness section. It will explain everything. It is easier to begin conversion to alternative fuel when you have centralized fueling. Foralternative fuels to be used in auto's and trucks you need to rebuild the contries entire fueling infrastructure.
[For alternative fuels to be used in autos and trucks, you need to rebuild the country's entire fueling infrastructure.]
However, you're asking a public-sector agency whose vehicles contribute less than 1% of NYC's particulate emissions to rebuild ITS entire fueling infrastructure, AT ALL COSTS. If it's worth doing for <1%, it should be VERY well worth doing FIRST for the other 99%.
NO not rebuild entire infrastructure. When infrastructure need to replaced(ie tanks need fixing, new depots) the MTA need to convert to the only CLEAN FUEL that is being used in most major cities. When you are standing at a curb and the bus pores smoke in your face you are breathing 100% poison gas. If you have asthma like me you would understand where I am coming from. Standing next to an idiling command RTS desiel makes me feel sick while standing next to a Command RTS CNG at the same stop(different day of course) I can breath easy. That is why I feel this way and major transit systems nationwide agree. I DO NOT SUPPORT RETIRING GOOD BUSES AND DEPOTS AND CONVERTING THEM TO CNG I do support a gradual migration to a better technology. Listen when Computers first came on the scene 60 years ago they had some growing pains also. GIVE CNG A CHANCE
I think you hit this issue on the mark. The City has to start somewhere.
Does anyone remember how poluted the skys of NYC used to be ? I remember how bad the CT river was ... fish were dying or didn't bother to come up the river ... the ell grass was almost non-existant ... you could see the raw sewage, etc. .... that's just where I grew up.
Rail & bus service should be improved to get more folks out of their cars and make rail freight more competive. All this will help.
CNG and other alternate fuels will help, so why not ?????
Mr t__:^)
Gas power is fine if it is safe and reliable. Among the many benefits are the fact that it doesn't leak into the ground, and it comes in a pipe and not a truck. And fumes are one of the main things that makes buses uncool to ride. But there are issues.
The gas combustion buses have been less reliable. Looks like electric buses are the best solution in the long run, run either by hybrid motor/batteries or fuel cells. The latter could be powered by hydrogen converted from natural gas.
Where will all the gas come from? The New York Area has a shortage of pipeline capacity, and new gas pipelines are not popular, especially since that one blew up in NJ. And while the U.S. has more gas than oil, it is a lot easier to move oil from the Middle East than gas.
Larry, Don't disagree with anything you said. It is nice to know that the politations SEEM to want to make the air a little easier for us to breath ... if this same attitude would only effect the folks in Washington, maybe we wouldn't be just taking baby steps toward a solution.
P.S. Way not bring back light rail in Queens ... I'm "qualified", opps this is BusTalk, sorry about that.
Mr t__:^)
(gas combustion buses have been less reliable)
One of the main reason for this is that most of these buses use engines oringinaly designed for deseils. I bet that the deseil powered buses of 60 or 70 years ago faced simalar reliabilty problems. These problems will definitly need to be worked out. As more of these buses are in use, problems will be eliminated one by one. There range has been increased recently by adding new technology fuel tanks. Expect the first production Fuel cells to have problems. One problem that needs to be adressed is how to fill the tanks of these buses quicker.
I may have missed some other post relating to this, if so sorry about that.
Anyhow the 4/13 article by Randy Kennedy relates to what was agreed to in Albany and how it relates to TA buses in the Big Apple:
TA commits to 44% of all purchases to be alternate fuel, i.e. not just CNG or elect. hybrid.
TA buying 1,257 vs. 1,056 buses, B-U-T the end result will only be 100 more on the street.
TA CNG fleet will be 650 by 2005, in 3 CNG depots (two new ones)
TA hybrid fleet will be 390 by 2005
TA new diesels will be four vs. two stroke & incl a special pollution trap (... what are they talking about ? ...), they're also switching to low-sulfur diesel fuel.
Mr t__:^)
I challenge all the CNG haters to post FACTs from scientists or news reports that shows that
1. CNG IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN DESIEL
2. THE CLEANEST POSSIBLE DESIEL BUSES EMMIT LESS CANCER AND ASMA
CAUSING EMMISIONS
3. CNG IS MORE EXPENSIVE TO OPERATE THAN DESEIL.
it is not cost effective to retire buses and depots with life left in them to install CNG equiptment. But as depots need remodeling or new depots are being constructed they should be built to use CNG. CNG is the fuel of the future for transit operating agencies and power supply companies.
PS. the cost of CNG Buses will come down as the cost of developing them is spread out over more buses sold. MTA should be buying buses like ORION VI wireless troley. CHECK THERE WEBSITE
Why dont the B83 run straight on Penn Av and B20 run on Van Siclen to Wortman? To me, it make some sort of sense.....
BM34x
If the TA ran the B-83 only along Pennsylvina Ave it will duplicate the B-82 between Flatlands and Vandalia where there is little demand for service. The current B-83 routing along Vandalia and Vam Sinclen Avenues will lose all service between Wortman/Van Siclen and Pennsylvia/Vandalia Avenues if the routes are changed. By the way the current B-83 is 99% residential while Pennsylvina Ave is mostly commercial and some retail along the area in question between Flatlands and LInden Blvd.
Thank You
That is true. The only thing it would do is bring people to the Starrett City Shopping strip. The B20 and B83 are routes which main purpose is to get people to the A,C,J,L,Z,3,4,and rush hour 5 trains..........
BM34x
See this mint A+ condition beauty on eBay, Item #310808298.
I posted some pics I seem to have never bothered to upload at http://www.quuxuum.org/~nixon/new/. This includes some pics from the HBLR opening. You'll have to poke into the subdirectories, as well. A little warning, I did not resize many of the pics, which are 200-300k each.
-Hank
Saw it twice this weekend. On Saturday, I saw it on the Q60. The front sign was stuck on
Q60 ia QUEENS BL, while the side sign was properly displaying the message for a Manhattan-bound Q60.
On Sunday, I saw it again on the Q11, both signs properly displaying signs for a northbound Q11.
However, on both occasions, the rear sign said "QM24." I know that QM24 is neither a GBL or a QSC route, but is a Triboro route!
I also saw once a Triboro bus displaying the Q101R signs.
Do the NYCDOT buses share the same message codes?
I don't know about the destination sign keypad, but the farebox won't let you log-on to a non-company route, i.e. QSC = QSC routes only. There are a few generic, e.g. Merry Christmas, Not In Service ... but other then those (if the farebox is not broken) it's pritty restrictive, as it should be. DOT believes in KISS.
Mr t__:^)
My understanding is that the NYCDOT sign and farebox set-up is analogous to NYCT's.
At Transit, each BUS has readings for the entire system, but each FAREBOX is equipped with only its home depot's Transfer Acceptance Table. (A route like the Bx40/42, which is based at Gun Hill but has some service out of Kingsbridge and Amsterdam, appears in all three depots' tables.)
With respect to the private carriers, the bus signs cover the entire DOT system, to facilitate switching. Of course, a farebox needs to cover only the company that uses it.
It's fairly easy to convert the farebox from one depot to another.
The destination signs at the TA are connected to the farebox, but at the "privates" they're not.
Mr t__:^)
I was wondering which route in lenth is longer to run the seaview b17 or the east 80th b17?
Both branches have about the same mileage because the Seaview?E 80th St branch has to loop around Rockaway Parkway which is 14 extra blocks per round trip.If the E 80th St branch did not go around the Rkway Pkway Loop then the Seaview/E 108th Street branch will be longer one. BTW I grew up in Canarsie so I am familar with the street make up.
Thank You
On April 14 5108 5109 5110 5111 were sent to Flatbush depot from Ulmer park. None were transfered to UP
How long #5111 been in Ulmer Park Depot, three days???? Doesn't make any sense to me why #5111 doing in Ulmer Park Depot & 4 days ago i saw #5111 running on Bx4 at Westcheaster Av.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
Bus 5111 is in Flatbush. I saw it on the B46 on Sunday 4/16. I don't know if was ever in UP, but it is now in FLA service.
5108 5109 5110 5111 all had Kingsbridge decals on them.
Those buses never went to Kingsbridge Depot & they were originally deliever to Gun Hill Depot back in early 1999.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
I stand corrected they did have Gun Hill logos.
With the arrival of the 5100's, FLA wasted no time in pulling the fareboxes out of 1984 RTS 3558, and the last 1982 local bus running, 2611. I spotted 2611 with not only no farebox, but it's decals, logos, and numbers were removed as well. On the windshield, though, was written "Do Not Strip" and "TBF"(To Be Fueled). However, it doesn't look as though the TA will make it the next musuem bus though, as some reports had suggested. I hope you all got your shots of it in service.
On the express side, Bus 1747 (JAM) was spotted broken down on Horace Harding Expwy and 98 Street last Wednesday. Apparently it didn't quite finish its run-on trip to Manhattan. It's parked against the fence in the back of the yard in Jamaica Depot with 1752 and 1755. To my knowledge only 1746 and 1844 are running in regular express service at JAM. Hard seaters 5145 and 5166 were spotted last Friday on the X63 and X64, respectively.
1746 has been out of service for about 2 months now. It has just been sitting inside the depot on the defect line with nothing being done to it so I guess only 1844 is in service. If I find out what happened to 1746 I'll let you know. BIG AL
I saw 1755 this morning on X64. 1844 also. As far as QV is concerned, 1757, 1767, 1773, 1819 and 1852 have been sighted recently. All others are probably stored in the depot.
Q46#8357Gary
Thanks Al. Come to think of it, I haven't seen 1746 in a while now.
For approximately the past six weeks the TA has been testing the Satellite Tracking System a.k.a. Automatic Vehicle Location and Control System (AVLCS) on the M31 & M57 routes. 126th St. Depot has been chosen as the test depot for this system and the M31 & M57 were chosen as the test routes because they traverse 57th St. which is bordered by tall buildings on either side. A total of 30 buses have been fitted with the necessary hardware and software. Being assigned to the M31 I drive one of these buses practically every day. Initially the system had many bugs and was proving to be a waste of time and money. In recent weeks however the contractor, Orbital Systems, has worked many of those bugs out and the system is functioning better. The AVLCS tells the driver if he's on or off schedule,how many minutes he's either late or early and if he's on or off route. The unit which is about the size of a large hand held calculator has a keyboard for sending text messages and an accurate clock to keep track of the time. If and when all the bugs are ironed out this system should help the buses run in a more efficient and timely manner. I'll keep you posted.
Does the system have a large LED time display instead "Stop Requested". If so I took an M42 with it few days ago.
Arti
No, you rode on 9624. That was featured in some conference and they put that LED system on the bus to demo it.
Clayton Parker
What is this system supposed to do? It looks like it has some device next to the regular route display computer. Also is it eventually display that the stop was requested? (a moot point on M42 though)
Arti
When i was coming home & i got to west farms rd i saw Artics on Bx27. I was suprised they putting Artics on Bx27 & the number of the bus was #5346. #5346 was in the article in New York Post last week how the buses deliever to New York City from Minn.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
Yesterday, 4/17/00 spotted nothing but articulateds working the BX22 & BX39 on White Plains Road between Morris Park Avenue & Bronx Park East.
I spotted #5346 around after 3pm yesterday at West Farms Rd on Bx27 but i think that the only artic running on Bx27. Also i see few Artics on Bx4 & Bx5.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
04/17/2000
Now that the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail is now open, will there be any decent connector shuttle buses to LIberty State Park and Liberty Science Center?
A visit to the train show last May at Communipaw terminal featured some rickity Jersey City "school bus" which was the pits. Now with light rail and handicapped accessibility, I am sure shuttle buses of the transit nature should be in order. Anybody know for sure?
Bill Newkirk
Shuttle busses to where? Liberty State Park Station is right at the Science Center.
There is also a 305 Shuttle to various points in that area
04/20/2000
[There is also a 305 Shuttle to various points in that area ]
Is this an existing service? Because last year I had to park at the HBLR parking lot (light rail not open then) and take a "school bus" shuttle to Commumipaw for the train show. This May, I may attend this train show again, so I was wondering were there any changes since the opening of light rail.
I was thinking did NJ Transit provide a free shuttle bus to Communipaw when there are events there. Just show your valid ticket and board the bus kinda thing. What if someone wheelchair bound wants attend the train show? That "school bus" would be out of the question.
Bill Newkirk
Bill,Contact Central Av Bus ,,they do have various services in that Science Corridor
Also,,,call NJT regarding the
305 (It is operated by Lafeyette and Greenville)
----I do not have the Telephone number for NJT Bus Information .
04/20/2000
[Shuttle busses to where? Liberty State Park Station is right at the Science Center]
Shuttle bus to the old CNJ Communipaw terminal. That's a long hike.
Bill Newkirk
You mean the waterfront terminal (with the clock)?
04/20/2000
[You mean the waterfront terminal (with the clock)?]
Yep! That beautiful terminal building on the Hudson!
Bill Newkirk
obviously you've never been there. There's a really long walking time on about 30 seconds.
Huh? Care to repost that? Is it a long walk to the Science Center, or the old JC terminal? What takes 30 seconds?
-Hank
Well obviously you've never been there. There's a really long walking time of about 30 seconds.
Not between the LR station and the Science Center.
Thank You to the webmaster for removing the harrasing posts directed an me by a certian person.
In this hobby we all need to work togther and not use these message boards for a soapbox to attack others.
Keep on Tawlkin!
M1 (The M1 and only)
I see on the UTC roster that Ulmer Park has #5075-#5078, yet i saw #5083 and #5079 on the B1 line recently. What is going on? Also, saw the roster and it says that #8600-#8670 is to go at Ulmer Park. Why is Ulmer Park testing out the 5000's if they arent staying there long and will the 8600's replace the 3000's that are still running at ulmer park?
3000s are history by year's end. UP will get 5000s and 8600s to replace them.
Q46#835Gary
From what i understand, Ulmer Park was supposed to only get only 20 of the 5000s. Perhaps the extra 5000s are there to train the drivers on them. I believe that Ulmer Park and Flatbush were the only 2 depots in Brooklyn which had not recieved any new busses since the 9000s.
A dispatcher assigned to 126th St. has a website: (http://tabuses.virtualave.net/). Check it out you may find it interesting. For those of you keeping track, buses 7552,7553&7554 have recently been transfered to 126th St. They join 7557,7558&7559 as the only Midwest Bus remanufactured buses assigned to the fleet. Bus 7552, which was formally 1388, still retains the old style kneeling mechanism where the bus tilts to the right instead of dropping straight down.
This is a great site. I checked it out yesterday. A little busy on the graphics, but it's a overall tight site. It's a TransiTALK Recommendation to see this site.
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
All the 7500's and 7000's still have the old type kneeler that only drops the right side. I used to drive them out of Ulmer Park.
Saw 7552 on the M15 today........
BM34x
Its Mr Mabstoa's recommendation that you only visit MY webpage. This months bargain: visit my site and get $50 gift certificate for Rite-Aid!!
Mr Mabsota
Technical advisor/President/Web Master/Network Manager
What is wrong with you? Why do you make fun of people's websites?
If you have nothing good or useful to say, say nothing.
If you have nothing good or useful to say, but wish to say something, then get out.
Who said Im making fun of anything?
If you feel Im making fun of something maybe you have a guilty conscience!
And I think you should start with your own advice. You say nothing and get out!
whats up everybody. I know I wanna be a M/M but I know alittle about buses. My dad is a Bus Operator from the Queens Village Depot, and I have sat in the Seat of an Orion V (number 232) from Casey Stengel Depot and operated the Doors and Wheelchair lift. I know a basic knowledge of Buses and I hope to get to know more from this website
What is the route and run that your father is on, I may know him. Thanks.
Q46#8357Gary
He has a Miscellaneous on the X68, Q46, and the Q1. I belive his Run number is 17. But his name is Mr Roach, and he is tall, dark skinned and wears glasses
OH Shoot, I've ridden with your father before, that names ring one damn familiar bell. I think I rode with him on the Q46 before.
R142 Boi 2K
Rich Roach, he's on run 317 on Q46. He had 024 run in the Fall. I usually ride 032 and 035 runs on the Q46. They're my main buddies on that route. I'm a SJU Student. Do you happen to know the Queens Village Depot web site? I've heard about it but don't know the link. And as of my handle, my favorite bus there at that depot is #8357-it's a fast bus and I like the Blitz Stop Requested Sign inside.
Q46#8357Gary
Earlier this evening (around 5:30, a little after), I saw a couple of fire trucks and an ambulance, I think, sitting on the left side of 10th avenue at the NW corner of 23rd. There was a taxi and MTA bus 7038 involved, could not see any visible damage.
not to the bus but the cab took it pretty bad.
Ah. Do you know anything of what happened exactly and how?
no just pased by and saw the aftermath.nyct was taking measurements.
Be on the lookout for ctc 770-saw her on the QM12 with new paint on her. Looks beautiful. Also 723 QM10 3000 Q38 3026 Q23. Go figure!
Q46#8357Gary
Also forgot to mention that 2055 was getting towed along Queens Blvd this evening and smoke was coming out of the rear nozzle on top.
Q46#8376Gary
Rode it on the B-3 tonight. Why does it have sliding windows in the rear of the bus. This is the ffirst time I have seen this.
PS. It also has the blue light rear destination sign
Some buses that once served in the Bronx (especially Walnut) had sliding windows placed in unusual places. My theory is that the maintainers put in whatever was available.
David
During it's time in the Bronx 4191 was assigned Kingsbridge and Walnut depots. However, many buses that operated out of Coliseum had sliding windows in different locations. I suspect the many Coliseum buses were being vandalized. At one point 4505 had all but 2 windows as those that slide open. There was another with all of the windows on the drivers' side being the sliding type.
Wayne
that bus was converted to a coach in 1998 and assigned to yukon. youre wrong about the windows as i drove it here with the normal arrangement. in 1999 it left yukon probably to storage at edgewater. since it was placed back in service at ulmer park i assume a window had to be replaced.
[. youre wrong about the windows as i drove it here with the normal
arrangement.]
No - I'm not wrong.
I never said nor did I imply that the bus currently has that window arrangement. I saw and rode this bus many times on Coliseum routes which is where it was originally assigned until Coliseum closed.
When I made that statement - it was made in the PAST tense as I'm well aware of the fact that when a TA bus gets rehabbed - they also replace the windows.
Wayne
the post by flatbus indicates it now has sliding windows which it did nothave at yukon. that is sliding window in the rear. the following buses were also express 4167 4169 4194 3964 3966 67 and 68 and 3909. anyone see them lately?
3967 is at Jamaica Depot. I have a pic of it. If you'd like to see it, email me. Thanks.
Q46#8357Gary
Here's where the buses are you were looking for:3966, 3968 & 4167 are at Edgewater storage yard. 4169 is at EAST New York base shop being painted. 3909, 3964 & 4194 are at Crosstown storage yard and 3967 is in service at Jamaica depot. BIG AL
I saw 4505 at Penn and Atlantic. It was heading towards ENY depot. It had a new paint job and no depot logo was on her. She look real nice............
BM34x
When I new on the job I had bus 1234 it had all solid windows not one slider. Good thing it had a great A/C unit.
Many of the 1981 RTS's had no sliding windows at all when they were new. This was a safety measure to prevent people from sticking there arms out the windows and getting injured. However, in 1982 transit started ordering the buses with the sliding windows so that the buses could remain in service with the climate control not working. Then most of the 1981 RTS's were retrofitted with the sliders. But some were skipped over like bus 1234. I have seen quite a few 1981's especially the 2200 series with no sliding windows at all right up to when they were finally sent to bus heaven. BIG AL
It seemed as if in the Bronx Division where many more windows are damaged anything was used to replace the window. Did you ever see the front right window with the side destination sign divider all the way in the rear of the bus!? This was popular with Walnut and Mother Clara Hale buses!
Yes, I remember that bus. I think it was 4462, but that was some time ago. Speaking of windows - anyone remember 2 MABSTOA GMC RTS, a 1983 and a 1984 model that had the dark tinted windows??? PA3100 and 4168 had all dark tinted windows. I'm guessing that PA3100 is gone now, but 4168 (if it's still in service) probably still has dark tinted windows.
Wayne
4168 was converted to a coach and operates out of ulmer park. prior to that it was at yukon.
About a year and a half ago the Chicago Transit Authority cut back overnight (they call it "Owl") service on both buses and subways. Dozens of bus routes in this busy city no longer run overnight (plus there's no service on the Green subway and the Purple Evanston Shuttle).
Have Chicago riders adjusted or is there still a call to restore the owl service? Is the economy helping increase ridership?
Actually I think some of Chicago's overnight service may be too ambitious. From what I understand, the red subway line still runs every 15 minutes. All of NYC's subways run on 20 minute schedules overnight...although some lines in Manhattan and the Queens Blvd. line have ten minute service because nearly all express lines run on local tracks overnight.
And Chicago's owl buses run on 30 minute schedules. Again, most NYC overnight bus service is on a 60 minute schedule...with some lines running every 40 or 45 minutes. I believe there are fewer than five NYC bus lines that run every 30 minutes or faster overnight...even in the middle of Manhattan.
Craig
^
The only 30-or-better-overnight NYCT routes (of which I'm aware) are:
M15 - 30
M101/102/103 - 20 combined (60 each)
Bx15 - 20 (north of 149th Street, to replace Bx55)
B41 - 30 (60 to each branch)
Q44 - 30
Most Manhattan Crosstowns operate at 40 minute headways at night. The M1 and M2 operate every 60 minutes each.
these lines in staten island have overnight service as well. their headways are every 60 minutes and are timed by ferry departure:
S40,S46,S48,S51,S62,S74,S78.
This line, the S53 operates every 50 minutes but runs to brooklyn.
My Staten Island Bus Map says the S53 runs every 40 minutes...I guess to coordinate with every other R train, which runs on a 20 minute schedule.
(40 mintues, 60 minutes)
With these kinds of headways, is there any point in providing service at all? Heck, you could walk across Manhattan in 40 minutes. What is the point of running empty buses and trains?
The TA would be better off operating a smaller network with more frequent serivce.
In Queens almost no one ever gets on our "Hawks", but we get paid to provide the service, so we do.
Mr t__:^)
The B42 runs every 20 minutes overnight...same as the L train. Canarsie must have some powerful councilmembers because the MTA has never messed with the B42. Other bus lines around the city that have replaced subway lines [Bx55 (3 Av. Shuttle), B54 (Myrtle Av. Line), B35 (Culver Shuttle)] all have seen cutbacks and lost their special "free connection" status, especially after MetroCard was introduced. But the B42 still requires no extra fare or swipe of a MetroCard if you transfer at the Rockaway Pky. L station...and NO WAITING. There's always a B42 making a connection with the L train, day or night.
Also the B39 runs on a 30 min. schedule overnight. Of course, the run takes less than 10 minutes to cross the Williamsburgh Bridge.
And the Queens bus map says the Q6 (Sutphin Blvd.) runs every 35 minutes overnight...although I'm sure that's a misprint.
Also the Q44 is scaled back to every 60 minutes according to my 1999 Queens and Bronx bus maps.
Craig
'
The B42 is basically a shuttle service and is able to maintain a 20-minute overnight headway with one bus. That's why it has a 20-minute headway.
David
The Q44 went to an every 30 minute owl headway in January 2000.
I would love to know why Green Bus Line #Q60 doesnt run past 2am. You figure there must be customers who go to manahttan on the weekends that live near Queens Boulevard and would love to take this line home instead of taking the train. i know the last line from 59th st to queens is around 1am or so. Is it becasue Green guesses there is no revenue or what?
Also, here some owl routes that i know of in brooklyn that could use it but dont:
B4-ends at 3am-restarts up at 430a
b49-ends at 315a-restarts up at 430a
why dont these line run 24/7?
The reason these buses do not operate 24 hours a day the route does not justify a need to have all night service. At one time on the B-49 Route 1 was pulling out and the last run from the night before was running off at the same time.
Currently on the B-4 service on the east end of the route is utilized more than service on the western end of the route. Prior to the restructuing of the current B-4 the old B-4 ran from 5AM to 2AM and the old B-21 ran from 4:30AM to 3:00 AM. Again Run 1 was pulling out and the last run from the night before was running off at the same time.
Hope this helps you
Thank You
["Is it because Green suspects there is no revenue or what?"]
Green and the other carriers don't need to care about farebox revenue - that goes to DOT. The companies get their costs back (with few or no questions asked, and answers ignored), plus guaranteed profit margin.
The "privates" are in the SERVICE business, not the revenue business, and so is the TA for that matter. NYC is a 24/7 kind of town. It keeps some of the cars off the streets & serves some folks who have no other way to get around. The only difference is what motivates the TA vs. "privates" to do a good job.
Mr t__:^)
If you've ever seen a NYC street at night, you'll realise how there is hardly a car to take off. And I would never use the bus system at night, it's horribly lackluster and might as well not be there.
Yes, but some folks have no other way to get home from their afternoon jobs. I can remember in Boston (with out a car) I would wait at the girlfriends house of the SOUND of the last T, then run to catch it.
Mr t__:^)
The B-42 was a replacement for the Canarsie Line Subway Service which was cut back from the Canarsie Shore to Rockaway Parkway. It was replaced first witha trolley line which ran on a private right of way and was later converted to buses in 1951. For those who are not aware the B-42 bus actually enters the station area which is an outdoor ground level station. I had a friend who drove the hawk there about 25 years ago and use to make trips with him. You can do an entire round trip in 10 minuates without speeding.They give 14 minuates on the schedule.
The reason the transfer was never eliminated was simple. You have way over 1000's of people who use this service. Buses run approx 2/3 minuates and each bus is SRO in peak rush hours.
Thank You
The reason it wasn't eliminated was because the direct connection was there. The Bx55 required that the patron get a transfer, which was no longer necessary with Metrocard.
I remember when I went to take the motorman test at Canarsie HS, every B42 bus was SRO. This was a Sat afternoon.........
B46M Limited
Maybe the B42 is a good candidate for Artics
Articulated buses aren't in Brooklyn yet, but East New York Depot (which hosts the B42) is a candidate to get them.
David
Flatbush depot needs them more..... Anyway, are there plans to bring the Artics to Bklyn???????
B46#5111Mike
Up until recently, there were plans to bring artics to Brooklyn -- eventually. However, with the recent change in priorities (more CNG 40-footers and fewer diesel artics), I don't know whether this is still supposed to happen. If I find out, I'll post.
David
At this time, artics are out of the depot plan for Brooklyn. However, things change from time to time, and this could change, too.
David
The 140 Option plan for New Flyer D60HF Galaxy Articulated Buses have been put on hold until 4th Quarter 2001. The original plan was to have the 140 Option here by Christmas with 71 of them at 126th Street for the M15 and the other 69 to be assigned to Westside.
That plan is still in effect but will not happen until 4th Quarter 2001. This would have been buses #5510-5649.
The existing New Flyer D60HF order will not be completed until 4th Quarter 2000.
R142 Boi 2K
Wait a minute...remember that the B42, at that time of night, takes about 13 minutes to do a complete round trip from the station to the pier and back (including layover). At a 20 minute headway it's 1 bus. Why schedule it on a 40 or 60-minute headway if all the bus is going to do is just sit at the terminal for long periods of time? People do use the B42 pretty heavily - even in the owl period it's significant.
And the B42 is a remant of the L (the L itself used to run to Jamaica Bay a long time ago, then it was a streetcar...now it's the B42). There probably is some political power keeping it from suffering as the B35 and Bx55 did, but it would actually be more wasteful to run it less frequently (and there are no easy interlining options around there).
[Wait a minute...remember that the B42, at that time of night, takes about 13 minutes to do a complete round trip from the station to the pier and back (including layover). At a 20 minute headway it's 1 bus. Why schedule it on a 40 or 60-minute headway if all the bus is going to do is just sit at the terminal for long periods of time?]
That's a real hard one to argue !
About a year and a half ago the Chicago Transit Authority cut back overnight (they call it "Owl") service on both buses and subways. Dozens of bus routes in this busy city no longer run overnight plus there's no longer any owl service on the Green subway, a branch of the Blue subway and the Purple Evanston Shuttle. (As in the past, the Orange, Brown and Yellow trains are also idle overnight.)
Have Chicago riders adjusted or is there still a call to restore the owl service? Is the economy helping increase ridership?
Actually I think some of Chicago's overnight service may be too ambitious. From what I understand, the red subway line still runs every 15 minutes. All of NYC's subways run on 20 minute schedules overnight...although some lines in Manhattan and the Queens Blvd. line have ten minute service because nearly all express lines run on local tracks overnight.
And Chicago's owl buses run on 30 minute schedules. Again, most NYC overnight bus service is on a 60 minute schedule...with some lines running every 40 or 45 minutes. I believe there are fewer than five NYC bus lines that run every 30 minutes or faster overnight...even in the middle of Manhattan.
Craig
^
See this mornings Newsday. 4/19/00 Nassau edition cover picture of the bus with its rear fully engulfed. I think it is a Harran MCI
It was a Harran bus but it was a 1998 Prevost model H3-45.
Effective 4/18/00 all drivers on the M31 & M57 routes who have runs that work past 9:30 PM are not to be assigned satellite equipped buses. It seems that the console at the Bus Command Center responsible for the satellite equipped buses is not staffed past 9:30 PM. Any driver attempting to radio the command center in case of an emergency would be met with silence.
On an other note does anybody know what issue of last week's N.Y. Post featured the article on how the articulated buses are transported from Minnesota to New York?
Let me take this opportunity before the sun sets and we sit down with our families for the traditional Seder meal to wish King Solomon, Anon-e-mous and everyone else a Happy and Spiritual Passover Holiday
#9306WF a/k/a Hart Bus
Thank you and same to you.
Same to me.
MAKE 7
UP YOURS
Does anyone know if or where any pictures of a slope back appear on the 'net ?
There probably is, but if there isn't lemme know, I have a couple of the original RTS-01 with the slope backs, I'll be glad to scan them and e-mail or post them for you!
R142 Boi 2K
www.transitalk.com
There probably is, but if there isn't lemme know, I have a couple of the original RTS-01 with the slope backs, I'll be glad to scan them and e-mail or post them for you!
R142 Boi 2K
AOL Screen Name: MTA Boy 2000
www.transitalk.com
Aren't the 1000s at GBL Slope Backs? Does anybody have a pic of QS 177-192 when they were there? They were slope back RTS 1 models if I'm not mistaking.
Q66#384Gary
Yes but the buses were modified and the slope back was eliminated.
Thank You
the GBL in question RTS 03 models.
M1
If you want to see a slope back in a movie, Watch "ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK" with Kurt Russell. When he's being dropped off in jail near the beginning of the movie, a slope back RTS pulls up right behind him and you really get a good shot at it. BIG AL
Thanx Big Al -- I'll look for it....I'm looking for a good picture in case a woodworking client of mine would be willing and able to build one for me out of wood...He has built trucks, bulldozers, backhoes, and other cool stuff....I figure that if I can show him a picture of a slope back along with my Jimson model of a straight back maybe he can do something.....If he can I'll take a picture of it and either post it or E-mail to everyone who would one along with what the price would be.....Let's hope !!!!!!
SEPTA's RTS fleet were slope backs.
Are there any pictures out there of the SEPTA RTS'?
Hey 9306WF, make sure you check out the rear doors on the slope back. They are extra large and slide open like the front doors do. It is very important for your wood working friend to put that into the model bus he might make, and not the doors on the current RTS's. Otherwise, he might make a bus that never existed! Hope you enjoy watching "ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK" and I hope you don't watch it solely to look for the bus as this is one of the best sci-fi movies ever made. (behind Terminator 2 off course) BIG AL
virtually all other transit properties used the sliding door model and still do. for all bus operators out there that was why there was a touchbar bypass switch on the dash. the door is activated by touching grabbar by door. nyct opted for a push door afraid farebeaters woud rush in a sliding door. the bus was meant to have sliding door hence nyct paid through the nose having to install a modified interlock. thewre is also a problem with mci interlock closing door on customers.
RTD in Los Angeles introduced the NYCTA inspired doors in 1982 on the 4400 series 35' RTS 04's and we have had them on every RTS order since.
Originally the RTS style "Plug Door" would stay open until the driver put the door handle to the closed position.
After the obvious problems with farebeaters "Highballing" thru the rear door RTD modified them all to have the touchbar bypass switch that every RTS has had since.
M1 (The M1 and only)
I just dropped off Trevor's pictures, A picture (from an E-bay ) of the HW model and my Jimson Straight back. Didn't discuss anything about the bus. Don't know if he was planning to put moving doors on the model or what size it will be.... I will print out your comment and perhaps show it to him if he hasn't started on the project. Maybe we get a prototype made first and the improvements later...I post updates as soon as there is news.
That one in "Escape From New York" was a Long Beach (CA) unit that was borrowed for the filming. Those particular scenes were done at the Sepulveda Basin Dam north of Hollywood. I understand the rest of the movie was actualy done in St. Louis, MO. (Might wanna check Internet Movie Database -- http://www.us.imdb.com -- usually lists filming locations.)
The imposter movie New York RTS #3481 are Long Beach Public Transportation Co. 4702 and 4716 and were from the first RTS production run.
Also RTD 9056 was used in "Metior" as the RTS that was blown up.
Also a 35 foot 03 from Hertz is running around as 7341 with the new style MTA-NYC logos on it.
All these busses are based in LA.
Although the NY imposter to look for is the TDH5304 #222 originally DC Transit later WMATA and is lettered and numbered as NYCTA 3907.
Soon to be restored to its DC Transit origin.
M1 (The M1 and only)
Right. Green Bus Lines 1001-1015 were T8H203-938 through -952.
The only "01" series went to Long Beach (CA), Houston (TX), San Antonio (TX), Brockton (MA), Dallas (TX) and San Jose (CA) -- though the San Jose units were actually ordered by Oakland and rejected.
wee have one that has not been converted I will try to get you a scan
Joe
in february 3 of these buses arrived at atlantic diesel. they still sit there today. nyct spent over a million dollars on these buses. does anyone here know why they have not been placed in service?
Last time I talked to some one about the Vikings, they were still awaiting certification. I went past Lodi DDC about 3 days ago and they were ghost.
R142 Boi 2K
AOL Screen Name: MTA Boy 2000
www.transitalk.com
I passed by Ulmer Park dept today and i saw about 1/2 dozen 5000's series parked. i saw #5087,#5090.#5093 and a few others. One of the guys said they had 8 there, but i heard they were getting 30 of them. They still had the Gun Hill Depot sticker on them so i guess they just got them in. Is Ulmer Park getting #5079-? Or are they just getting the 8600-8670 from Westside instead?
Today, around noonish, I saw 9365 parked on 10th Avenue just north fo 30th street. Does anyone have any idea what it's doing there? I know it's not used for express... isn't this bus from the Queens division? Well I'm positive it's not from any of the Manhattan depots.
9365 is from Q.V. depot. It's possible that they were short an express bus so they decided to use that one for the day since it has the fabric covered seats. Jamaica sometimes uses the 5100 series for express when they are short also since they have the fabric seats as well. BIG AL
Jamaica sometimes uses 8900s 9500s and even 4200s and 4500s. I saw 4595 on X64 recently. Last month I saw 4215 on X64. What should happen is that QV and Jamaica should get the Express Buses from storage like 3966 3968 in order to get rid of the 1700-1800 series. And why are the 4800 Express being brought to storage, they got a few years left on them? 3800s I say have a year or 2 left in them at the very most.
Q46#4323Gary
Also today in the same exact spot as yesterday I saw a 49XX series Nova.
4215 & 4595 on the X64? I don't think so. Gary, are you sure that was not the Q4 you saw those buses running on? Where did you see those buses when you thought they were on the X64? I work out of Jamaica depot and believe me when I tell you they would never put a hard seater on the express. And even if they did, it sure wouldn't be 4215 and 4595 especially 4215. That bus is a total dog. The only buses they would put on the X64 other than a soft seater would be a 5100 because of the velour seats. And if it was a worst case scenario, and they had to use a hard seater which they never do, than they would go with a Nova, which would have to be either an 8900 or a 9500. P.S. Jamaica's 9500 series buses do not have the velour seats. BIG AL
I, like Tevi also wrote it down. On March 16, 2000, 4215 was on the X64. On February 3, 2000, 4597 was on the X64. On that same day, 9536 was on the X64 too. I don't remember what day I saw 4595 on X64 but I knew it was her. 4216 was ALSO there not that long ago. I'm positive-I saw these buses at Queens Center Mall at Woodhaven Blvd.
Q46#8357Gary
9365 on Express Run?! That's a rare site at QV. Perhaps it was on standby Express in case if the 1700 Express breaks down?! Not too sure though. Are you sure it wasn't 9265? Wish u took a pic as proof.
Q46#8357Gary
I am more than one million precent positive it was 9365. I even wrote it down...
perhaps they use it as a training bus out of QV, perhaps the instructor swung by Hudson with the student operators
The only training buses I ever see in Manhattan are 82XX series, usually from a brooklyn depot.
8299 is constatly used as a training bus out of Yukon. It was in the vicinity of Madison Square Park a few weeks ago. I don't know what keeps them from using just ANY bus for training purposes, and why they consistantly use one bus.
-Hank
The reason they use the same bus all the time is that these buses are specially set up for training purposes. They have small pipes with connectors under the first r/s seat (the rap seat) that allows the instructor to hook up a special lever that when pushed applies the brakes. This is done so if the student looses control, the instructor can instantly stop the bus. BIG AL
Is the r/s seat the one right behind the door or driver?
The first r/s seat is the one right behind the front door. In addition to 4572, buses 4571 and 5169 have these connector pipes in Jamaica depot. Also, these buses are not built with them. Transit installs them. When they scrap a bus, they unhook them from the braking system and remove the pipes, and reinstall them in a new bus. Originally Jamaica was using 4572 and 3041 for training. But when 3041 got scrapped for bulkhead problems, the system was installed in 4571. BIG AL
Thanks :)
5169????????
They train on such a new bus???
That's right Tevi, 5169 is a training bus also. The students need to learn how to operate a Nova bus as well. The dashboard and controls are quite different from the older RTS's. But the main reason is the wheelchair lift which is totally different on the new buses.
What about the lift on the 94XX-95XX-96XX buses?
The lifts on the 94 - 9600 series are different as well. I don't know when the students get to train on that kind of bus. We don't have a training bus in that series, so the students might just practice on a lift in a bus parked in the depot's yard.
Ahh eye see.
So THAT'S what those pipes and things are!
-Hank
The special brake is called a "trolley brake", because of its resemblence to a trolley's braking system. In Jamaica Depot 4572 is equipped with such a brake.
Training buses can be fitted with an auxilery brake. The training bus has air hose fittings inside the bus just under the first seat.That is why the same bus is always used.
among the training buses i've seen or been trained on are:
8131/8161 FP
4572 JAM
4857 now JG
4400 it was KB back then
8357/8370 QV
82999 YUK
8800/4795 MTV
It was probably one of the FB buses me saw with me very own glass eye.
9365 was used as a training bus on that day. You will sometimes see buses from all different depots parked on 10th ave. around lunch time. The deli in The Daily News building is a favorite among many of the instructors.
Sometimes I'd see 8441 at Woodhaven Blvd and Queens Blvd.
Q46#8357Gary
What is a misc. run anyway?
A "Miscellaneous" run (Queens, S.I.) is simply a run that works multiple routes.
For example, first half on S78 and second half on X15, or a day on the Q5 followed by one round trip on the Q84. The rule is that if there is a NON-school-related change of routes during the course of the run, the run is designated as Miscellaneous. In other words, if the other-route work is a school trip (does not operate on a school-closed schedule), the run is not assigned to Miscellaneous.
For picking purposes, Miscellaneous runs are grouped into a distinct route, MISC, with runs numbered from 301 up. However, every minute of each MISC run is charged to the routes being worked. (Swing time is charged to the route worked prior to the swing.)
In TWU depots, there are no designated Miscellaneous runs; there, a run which works multiple routes is assigned to one of the routes (e.g. a B74 run with first half on the X27), generally the one representing the greater amount of work.
i would like to talk with anyone who rides on greyhound especially cross country.....
did you hate or like it ?? etc_________________________________...!!!!
salaam--- greyhound is not a hot topic here....
check out the greyhound bus club on yahoo
i'll be happy to listen to your stories...
one of the members is going from western canada to key west florida and then up the eastern seaboard...
greyhound bus club
I would say, since you've asked 3 times already and gotten no answers, that no one here has an answer for you.
-Hank
so ?? there might still be someone out there who will log on who will .........
is that ok with you ?............................................!
This isn't subtalk. We don't see that many new messages, maybe 200 a week; so the first time you asked is still visible. Ask once, ask again in a month. Maybe someone will be here then, Sally.
-Hank
your wifes name is sally ??......... man.......... !! she is bossy - you must get her under control.......HANK ..!!..........!
by the way your greyhound story ?? ..............and your answer is _________________________________!!........??....!
OK, I was on a Greyhound bus, sitting next to an annoying waste of atomic particles resembling a human, who asked repetive questions and never met a true fact he couldn't shout down with garbage, and I pasted his face into the glass, an cut off all his hair. At the next stop, I made sure he had a comfortable ride breathing exhaust fumes in the #3 luggage compartment.
-Hank
What buses are used on the M98? I heard once here that the 86XX's and 51XX's are used... do they have the speed govenors in them... and to what speed?
I've taken the M98 only once and the number started with 51.
Since M98 is designated as a non-Express route, any hard-seater at West Side should be fair game.
Yeah, but on the Harlem River Drive the speed limit is 55, not 50.
So what do they do with the govenors on those buses?
Nope. Max speed limit on ANY highway within the city limits is 50, not 55.
-Hank
Well in that case, still, what are the buses goverend to?
I ride the M98 every weekday. I'll try to keep track of bus numbers for you.
My regular driver who would be happy to answer the governor question just when on vacation, but I can ask him when he gets back.
-Mike
Ah thanks :-)
Tevi, A.K.A. Mr. Roboto :)
Due to a family emergency, my regular commute was interrupted this week, but Monday morning I was aboard #9654.
More to follow...
--Mike
Thanks.
Ya gotta love my regular driver, Allen, who just got back from vacation today. I gave him a copy of your message on the ride home, and he scribbled the following information on it:
BUS SERIES
GOVERNOR
51XX
60 MPH
86XX
55 MPH
96XX
60 MPH
Does that answer your question?
--Mike
Yes it does, very much, THANK YOU!! :)
And how did you make that table?
Thanks, Mr. Roboto. :)
Begin with <TABLE BORDER> use <TABLE> if a border is unnecessary.
<TR> will define a row,
<TD> will open a cell (in the row), when finished with the cell, use </TD>
When finished with a row use </TR>
When finished with a table, use </TABLE>
This is how Mike Pollock's table looked:
<table border="1">
<tr>
<td><u>BUS SERIES</u></td>
<td><u>GOVERNOR</u></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>51XX</td>
<td>60 MPH</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>86XX</td>
<td>55 MPH</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>96XX</td>
<td>60 MPH</td>
</tr>
</table>
Oh, and notice how I used those slashes to terminate the cells, rows and table? USE THEM TO TERMINATE YOUR BOLD TEXT (</B>)!
Actually, I did it the easy way. I made a quick WYSIWYG table in Front Page Express and just copied the source code into my message.
--Mike
Ahh.
Thanks!
found this interesting list on egroups...
http://www.egroups.com/group/nycbuses
check it out.
You did not find it, you founded it.
BUSTED!
R142 Boi 2K
Well that one was figured out pretty quickly. :)
Guess I can't fool ya guys.
Something called Surface Dispatch sent the following information to our computer group at 126th St. Depot:" The opening of Maspeth Depot located at 49th St and Grand Avenue in Maspeth Queens has been pushed back until 2003. The original plan called for the rehabilitation and conversion of the former Avis Car Rental facility. Instead, a new modern depot and Central Maintenance Facility will be constructed on the site. The new depot will have the capability of storing 200 diesel buses and will also be equipped to repair CNG vehicles".
Two bus sightings to report from yesterday 4/20/00: 1) Spotted bus 5346 from the NY Post article of 4/12/00 on the BX12 line at the intersection of Eastchester Road and Pelham Parkway bound for Bay Plaza. 2) On the way into work spotted a 9400 series bus from Flatbush Depot being towed, with the rear end hoisted up and the engine compartment open, by a private contractor heading southbound on Bruckner Blvd near 138th St.
evidently headed to atlantic diesel for warranty repairs.
Maybe Flatbush can bring 2611 back to life.
Perhaps, Maspeth Depot could do the same.
That sounds good. They can run it on the B24 or Q59.
The new Maspeth facility is not going to be a depot but a maintance facility only. The TA DOES NOT NEED ANOTHER DEPOT in Norhten Brooklyn. Remember when the CMF leaves East New York later on this year East New York will be able to hold an additional 250/300 buses.
Its possible that the extra space can be divided into a seperate depot within the complex.
Brooklyn will get another depot only if the MTA take over the private lines and then it will be the new Command facility since the City already owns it.
Thank You
A seperate depot within the same comlex sounds nice. It could be called Bushwick or Cypress Hill depot...... Any other suggestions????????
BM34x
Cypress Hill sounds nice, isn't there some sort of Cypress tree? That could be the logo.
Is Maspeth Depot going to replace another depot or will it augment the Queens Division
Maspeth depot is actually going to augment the Brooklyn Division. BIG AL
Will it be called "Maspeth Depot", or will it have another name?
Before a lot of posts questioning the availability of Subtalk/Bustalk come up, I need to mention that the NY area (where the NYCSUBWAY.ORG servers are located) has been in a severe weather system for the past 18 hours. Storms have included hail, and severe thunderstorm watches have come and go, along with flood watches. This most likely was the reason for the inability for many of us to access Subtalk/Bustalk. Now we return to our regularly scheduled programming.
-Hank :)
Can someone point me to a web site(s) that may contain pictures of the private bus lines pre MSBA? I'm especially interested in the Bee Line and Schenk Transportation.
Your interest in Bee Line and Schenck parallels mine. Unfortunately, I have not found anyplace on the web that has pictures of Bee Line and Schenck. I sure hope somebody has and will let us know. Joe Saitta, who occasionally frequents BusTalk, has a considerable number of these pictures for sale. I haven't had a chance to see them all yet, but hope to do so in the next few months. I do have very rudimentary rosters for Bee Line and Schenck. If you (or anyone) wants copies, please e-mail me your address so I can snail-mail them to you.
Joe brought his Flxible New Look to Bus Fest '99. He displays many of his pictures on the section of the bus where the ads went. It is interesting from a historical standpoint. He occasionally displays his bus at Street Fairs on Long Island (where he resides). Hopefully he and you can both be at Bus Fest 2000 or meet up at a street fair on LI.
BTW does anyone know when Bus Fest 2000 will be?????
"BTW does anyone know when Bus Fest 2000 will be?????"
June 11?
2 pictures of Bee Line buses can be found here at NYCSUBWAY.ORG, NYC BUSES, under Joe Testagrose's pics in the Queens section. They are fishbowls 668 and 671.
Thank you. I note that Bee Line bus #696 is there also. #694-698 were acquired when Bee Line took over the former Semke Bus routes. The blue stripe along the roof was leftover from Semke.
Sid, Can you or someone else on this site remind me of the 10 companies that made up LI Bus ?
Mr t__:^)
Let's see: Jerusalem Ave, Schenck, Utility, Bee Line, Hempstead are about the only ones I remember.
J Caronetti
Was Interstate Bus out of Babylon one of them also ????
The company you are thinking about is Inter-County Motor Coach in Babylon, L.I. They are in Suffolk not Nassau. They are operating 20 Van Hool coaches (57 Pax) 45 footers. I also understand that they are now running a transit operation for the town of Babylon called Babylon Transit.
I believe Babylon Transit has been a transit subsidiary of Inter-County for many years, dating back to the days before Suffolk Transit existed. I think Inter-County also had a 2nd transit subsidiary, but I can't think of the name of it right now.
Inter-County had Babylon Transit, and from a slide I had in my collection, looks like they also had a Lindenhurst Bus Company as a subsidiary. (The bus was a GM TDH5302.)
When I first started out in the bus industry 41 years ago, only 2 carriers, Inter-County Motor Coach and Campus Coach Lines had the ICC operating authority to originate interstate charters in Nassau & Suffolk Counties.
Inter-county also operates the S-29 (Babylon Village to Walt Whitman Mall via Deer Park Ave & Jericho Turnpike) the S-54 (Walt Whitman Mall to Patchogue via Jericho Turnpike and Veteran's Memorial Highway) as a contract carrier for Suffolk County Transit...They may also operate several other routes under this arrangement.
I do know one other "Rockville Centre Bus Corp." ... LI Bus still has it's 2nd depot in that town.
Also my token catalog has three coins issued by "Freeport Bus Corp.", but no year of issue is indicated.
Thank you very much for the input so far !
Mr t__:^)
Hello Thurston, how are you? The present LI Bus Rockville Centre depot was the Bee Line depot prior to MSBA. Because Rockville Centre Bus was one of several Bee Line subsidiaries, those buses also used that depot.
As an aside, some "old-timers" may remember that another Bee Line subsidiary, Stage Coach Lines, which I believe had a depot out in Farmingdale, was formerly Checker Bus Lines. Stage Coach Lines was formed by Bee Line to take over Checker when Checker ran into financial problems. One of the more interesting things about Checker was that it used to rent buses from Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, to run some of the Jones Beach buses in the summertime. Other than in the summer months, those buses were returned to Florida.
That is ironic that a LI based bus company brought up buses from Florida for their summer line runs. Hampton Jitney so many years later is doing the very same thing today.
Hampton bought Happy Trails here in Cape Coral Fl. about 2 years ago. They are advitrising here for drivers to work in ny for 6 weeks (housing meal allowance health club are part of the deal) The reason they bought Happy Trails was the auto bus service they run ended here.
[Stage Coach Lines was formed by Bee Line to take over Checker ...
... Checker ... used to rent buses from Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, to run some of the Jones Beach buses in the summertime.]
My token book lists four token for "Jones Beach":
- "Stage (Coach) Lines 1967" at 1.50
- "Island Transit System (bus)" at 2.00 ... three issued in 1968
Mr t__:^)
Thurston, IIRC one of your predecessor companies ( Queens Transit ) also ran a summer run from Main St. Flushing to Jones Beach. IIRC, a buddy and I took it because it was cheaper than the Nassau County carrier that ran a similar route in the late 60's early 70's
Please tell me more, as one of my collegues here is writing a article for a busfan publican.
BTW, I'm the first qualified TROLLEY operator at this depot since they bus-substituted (NY & Queens County/Nassau-Queens), but then even if trolleys came back I could only be an instrutor since i'm mngt. :-(
Mr t
Thurston, unfortunately I only went once and I think it was the summer of '66,'67 or '68. I went with a buddy who lived in Flushing (I lived in Sunnyside). I seem to remember that the route started on Roosevelt south of Main (probably the corner of Prince St) and ran non-stop to Jones Beach. The fare of $1.10 each way comes to mind, but my mind ain't what it used to be. The bus was orange and white so it probably was Queens Transit, rather than Steinway Transit. I remember that it was cheaper than a Nassau bus route that left from the same spot.
Another memory about that trip that as the bus was s/b on Main St we passed the Century movie house there was a bus picking up a group of people to go to Orchard Beach. It was a GMC old look, I don't remember the livery (if it had one) but I was shocked to see a female driver. She was a husky momma. This was the first time I had ever seen a female driver. Now very common but quite unusual 30 years ago, that's why it sticks in my memory
Going now to the Auto Show at the Javits....I'll post anything bus related that I find.
#9306 WF a/k/a Hart Bus
[This was the first time I had ever seen a female driver. Now very common but quite unusual 30 years ago, that's why it sticks in my memory]
Her daughter probally works for us, as your description fits a few I can think of ... most are easy to talk to also. In any case thanks for the input I'll pass it along.
Mr t__:^)
I don't remember the Queens Transit service to Jones Beach, but I remember Schenck Transportation being the Nassau County carrier on that route. (There were several Queens to Jones Beach routes that Schenck ran.) I think at least one of Schenck's routes was quite successful (perhaps one from Jamaica) and ran for many years. It's even possible MSBA ran that route for awhile after the takeover of the privates.
I think I remember a Jones Beach bus stop sign at Utopia Pkway and Union Tpke. Might have been early MSBA that may have started its run in Flushing. Those Schenck buses may have looked similar to Queens Transit.
I suspect the $2.00 tokens were issued by Mid-Island Transit which, as an earlier post on this thread mentioned, went belly-up before the 1973 MSBA takeover. I believe Mid-Island had a route from Hicksville to Jones Beach and perhaps another one or two.
Here's "some" of them:
Schenck Transportation Company (Floral Park)
Bee Line (Rockville Centre)
Utility Lines (Massapequa)
Mid-Island Coaches (Westbury/Hicksville)
Stage Coach Inc. (I believe Glen Cove???)
Universal Auto Bus (Great Neck is where I show buses delivered to)
Hempstead Bus Corp. (Hempstead)
the others??
As for Utility Lines -- I remember them running a route along Montauk Highway from Patchogue to Freeport with mostly 35-foot GM fishbowls, but #321 was a 40-footer. They also ran a route from East Islip up to Central Islip and this always seemed to get #317, a TDH3714 old look. Somehow I thought they had a garage in Patchogue too.
On June 3, 1973, Nassau County acquired the following ten private bus lines, along with 298 of their buses, to form the Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority: Bee Line, Branch Bus Corporation, Hempstead Bus Corporation, Hendrickson Bus Company, Jerusalem Avenue Bus Line, Rockville Centre Bus Corporation (Bee Line subsidiary), Roosevelt Bus Line, Schenck Transportation Company, Stage Coach Lines (Bee Line subsidiary) and Utility Lines (Bee Line subsidiary). Mid Island Transit System had gone bankrupt in 1970 just after delivery of six 1970 Flxible model 111CD-D51 buses (out of 35 purchased by the county for used by four of the Nassau County private firms: Hempstead Bus, Mid-Island Transit, Semke Bus Lines and Universal Autobus; its routes and equipment were taken over by some of the other privates. MSBA is its legal named; the system is owned by debt-ridden Nassau County by operated under contract and included as a part of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. A few years ago, MSBA was changed to MTA Long Island Bus, but MSBA remains the legal name.
MSBA has not preserved any historic equipment; one 1974 GMCT6H-5310A #117 remains (it is used by the Nassau County Police Department and appears occasionally at the LIB shops for maintenance; a retired Metro is also used by the NCPD, although generally it is stored at the LIB facility in Garden City). There are numerous historic Nassau County buses in existence; three operate, although only one, exterior-restored 1970 Flxible #699, is licensed.
#699 is scheduled to appear locally at various times this year; please watch BusTalk for information. The car card section this year (about 100 photos) will feature the "Trolleybuses of Brooklyn." Thousands of bus, trolleybus, subway and trolley photos, plus our MegaCalendars, will be available for sale either on the bus itself or at the shows it appears at.
Numerous inquires have been received concerning the availability of our 55-photo 1996, 1997 and 1998 MegaCalendars. A few are still available by mail; each is $24.95 plus $5.00 UPS. Contact me for further information.
Joe, Thank you very much for the update on the 10 companies that became MSBA/LI Bus.
Regarding your advertizement, 699 was bought by you ? Knowing Nassau County, it couldn't be stored on your property, so where do you keep it ?
Mr t__:^)
Thanks everyone for all the responses and info. I have many a memory of riding on the Bee Line (N3 and N4 in particular)as I grew up in Valley Stream and used to travel to Jamaica. I recall Bee Lines's old look roster (600-619) and many of their new looks (627?-698?). It was interesting to note that after MSBA took over, most, if not all, of the predecessor #'s were kept. Hempstead Bus Co's 400 series Flxibles ran for many years after 1973. I can recall riding some of Bee Line's early new looks into 1982. Again, thanks everyone.
Bee Line new looks were 625-698 (694-698 were ex-Semke) for 40 footers and 565-570 for 35 footers. 625 was renumbered into Rockville Centre Bus #150 at some point; 669 was renumbered into #151 or 154 later on. I, too, grew up in Valley Stream, although probably earlier than you did, as I remember many of Bee Line's old looks. Some of them actually survived into the MSBA fleet, with #619 painted into early MSBA colors. I lived off Franklin Avenue, where both the predecessors to today's N-3 and N-25 ran. As a result, I got to know Schenck (N-25) pretty well also. If you have any more questions on Bee Line or Schenck, I very well may have the answer.
Small word isn't it. I grew up off of Emerson Pl. So I knew the N3 very well. Many a time I rode the N3 down to Rockaway Ave or Green Acres Mall. I probably rode all of Bee Lines' 35 foot new looks. I also recall riding their old look shorty, number 564, I believe.
I also have fuzzy memories of Bee Line's Macks; I recall their numbers as being 620-625 or so. Hempstead Bus Co also had Macks. They lasted longer than Bee Line's.
616 was a favorite old look I took to Jamaica as a kid. During 1981, I rode the N4 often to school. There was one driver in particular who believed stopping at red lights was optional after the city line! He
used to haul #637 to Hillside Ave like there was no tomorrow!
Somewhere in a shoe box I have a Bee Line "school ticket". I'll have to see if I can track it down.
Thanks again for the Bee Line background.
I also liked #616 as one of my Bee Line old-look favorites. I also liked 600 and 561 because of the silver trim along the belt of the bus. Bee Line had older Macks (500-519) that predated #620-624 which arrived at Bee Line about the same time NYTransit got its first fishbowls (1-190). These 40-foot Macks were the first big buses on the N-4 and served that route exclusively for many years. After that, Bee Line assigned them to the owl runs on the N-4 and N-6. (P.S. I grew up off Franklin Avenue, a block north of where Emerson Pl. and Wheler Ave. intersect with Franklin.)
[It was interesting to note that after MSBA took over, most, if not all, of the predecessor #'s were kept.]
That was true, unless there was duplication. Schenck had the most buses renumbered. Its new looks in the 400 series (410-448) were renumbered because Hempstead Bus had 404-455. (Each Schenck bus had "46" added to its fleet number.) Some of Schenck's 600 series air-conditioned new looks were renumbered because of Bee Line old looks with the same numbers.
In the early '80s I took a line run on motorcoaches from Walt Whitman Mall to Main St. / Roosevelt Ave operated by Alert Coach with their motley collection of MCI-8's, Prevost Bombadier, PD 4104's, and Flxible Old Look Suburbans.
At that time Alert operated a transit route on Route 110 from Amityville RR to Walt Whitman Mall. When Suffolk County took over they merged this route with Huntington Coach Corp's Halesite to Walt Whitman Mall and labeled it S-1.
Alert used a GMC Old Look that was a transit with a stick shift. An old driver by the name of Frank didn't want any other bus. I beleve that the number was 619. Anyone know of this bus and what happened to it. Considering that Baumann (the owner of Alert) usually purchased used equipment it could have come from anywhere..IIRC the bus was all grey with simple black lettering.
This bus was ex-Bee Line (Nassau County) #617, a 1959 GMC TDH-5106; it was not a stick shift. The bus ran until 1982; a transmission problem forced its retirement.
Frank passed away recently; the bus, however, still exists although I am not free to say anything except it is being well taken care of. Frank was fortunate enough to have seen his bus restarted prior to his passing, something he thoroughly enjoyed.
Bee Line old looks 610-619 had an interesting interior color combination: black speckled paint bottom with a flesh colored mid/top section. The cushioned seats were grey and red. I wonder whether this former Bee Line bus still has its original interior colors.
Sorry to hear about Frank's passing. Although I never met or rode with him, it was nice to hear the reverence with which all the Alert drivers spoke about Frank.. He was there ready for work, rain, snow, sleet, freezing cold weather. He knew 617 would start no matter what the weather conditions. One extremely cold day, Bauman moved some buses indoors, two or three up to East Northport Garage (indoor) so that he could provide service.
617 wasn't deemed important enough to be brought inside. Frank shows up at the Amityville yard a little early. Gets inside 617 starts her up, lets her warm up and he's off to work before most of the newer equipment was running.
RIP Frank.....
www.mybusandsubwayline.com
When was the picture of Metrobus Orion 4410 taken? Before or after SmartMover service started?
Thanks, in advance.
I took that picture of 4410 at Lakeforest Mall after the SmartMover System was implimented. Well After. That picture was taken Thanksgiving Weekend of 1999.
R142 Boi 2K
OK then, out of curiosity, why was it on the J9?
I'd have no idea why it would be on the J9. It was just there! And lucky me got it (phew!)
R142 Boi 2K
Do any of you know if the NYCMTA buses are EZ-Pass equipped? What do the SI-MANH buses do?
All the Staten Island buses are equipped with EZPass. No need to find an equipped bus for the s53 or s79, or an extra if needed for an xbus run. Also, the only way to bring a bus to SI from the rest of the city is over the VN, so it makes sense from that perspective as well.
The only buses I've seen in the other boros with EZPass are all the buses out of Casey Stengal (with the Q44 and Q32, although the Q32 doesn't usually use a toll crossing) and Queens and Brooklyn x-buses, along with many of the private buses.
Oh, Lincoln Tunnel bus lane and Battery Tunnel HOV lane require EZPass, since they lead only to EZPass toll booths.
-Hank
The M60 also has EZPass, not sure what depot it is from.
M60 runs out of Manhattanville. EZ-Passes are kept by the crew dispatcher; B/O's receive them upon reporting and return them upon clearing.
My understanding is that Q44 B/O's do the same.
The EZ pass is already mounted on the roof just in front of the roof hatch in the front of the bus. It's a good idea on the pre-trip to make sure it's there because occasionaly one gets sheared off by a branch or something and when its not there those bridge and th=unnek guys demand you fork over $11 or turn you around and possibly ticket the operator.
FYI, all Greyhounds have the same black EZ pass mounted in front of the front roof hatch. Just because its there doesnt mean anything, because if they people in dallas dont pay the bill it wont be accepted and they will make you pay on the spot or turn you around.
Actually today I saw one of the new NJT MCI's, and the EZ-Pass was DEFINETLY mounted on the windshield.
2 questions:
One, what toll plaza lanes are used for the bus lanes on the Lincoln Tunnel? I heard these lanes had a high-speed reader?
Two, and how come I can never actually see the EZ-Passes? Are they hidden inside of the engine or suttun?
EZPasses on buses are generally mounted on the roof, under a black housing. When you work in a tall building, you can look down and see them. Also, if you're far enough away, and catch just the right angle, you can spot it from the street.
-Hank
I know that all 102 inch wide body buses must use the Lincoln Tunnel and are illegal in the Holland Tunnel. Our drivers at Royal Lines are told not to use the Holland Tunnel with our Setras. However I see Academy using it every day with their HP-45 Prevosts which are 102 inches wide ? How do they get away with it ?
just a joke.... academy has one of their supervisory field cars ride alongside the 102" buses so that no other wide vehicle can pass...
Let's not forgot the illustrious M35 bus which runs from 125th and Lexington to Randall's Island and Ward's Island. Approximately 8 buses in the 126th St. Depot fleet are permanently assigned to the M35 and have the EZ Pass mounted on the roof. In the event that any of these buses is not available for service a substitute bus is assigned and the operator working the run must obtain an EZ Pass from the yard dispatcher and mount it on the front windshield.
This thought came to me while riding Gillig Phantom 547, which had a LOUD engine and seats that rattled like a California earthquake.
If I were in charge of LI Bus I'd get new DD CNG engines for the Orion CNG's, scrap all the Gilligs and replace them with diesel Orions.
Also since the current diesel Orions we have are in good shape I'd retrofit them with the automated announcement system. Also the CNG's would get the standard double doors and soft seats like QSC uses.
But one things for sure, those Gilligs have got to go!
Hey couldn't LI Bus sell them to a movie company to blow up!!
I think an even better idea was to offer LI Bus the underfunded WMATA 1997 Orions that went over to Queens Surface and Green Bus. They would have been a much needed asset to LIB's fleet. The 50 diesels are fast and smooth riding. They certianly would be a more than fitting replacement for the Gillig geldings.
I'm afraid that QS doesn't have any more 1997 Orions on their property. They were sent to Green Bus Lines and are now operating as 5545-5550. I'll have a pic up of 5550 soon.
Q60#5503Gary
What are those orange squares that I see on the back of the side mirrors of SI's express MCI's?????????
B46#5109Mike
This question comes up every few months. Those orange squares allow 102 inch wide buses to use the bus only express lane on I-495 to the Lincoln Tunnel in the morning rush hour.
It also helps to spot buses that can be used through NJ. Buses without the patch can't run there.
-Hank
When the TA transfers buses between depots, which drivers are assigned to drive these non-revenue runs ? Is it the depot that is giving up the buses or the depot that is receiving them that provides the drivers ? Also, do drivers have to sign a special pick to do these runs or are they taken off their regular routes by the dispatcher at random ?
To the best of my knowledge, bus moves are usually overtime pieces. B/O's pick these much in the same way as they do extras or X-runs. I'm not sure but I think that the depot that is giving up the buses is the one that provides the operators.
Someone double check this for me?
I have done many bus moves [transfers] to other depots.The work is assigned to the first operator to ask for open work. the operators are from the depot sending the buses.
Ok, so the orange square question has been asked again in regards to SI MTA express buses. Here's a variation on that question that I don't think has been asked or answered yet:
On Triboro MCI's and CNG Orions and perhaps the RTS's too, on the drivers side mirror is a white reflective square. It doesn't seem as though all of them have them. Does anyone know what the white square is for?
I would imagine they are reflective to warn oncoming traffic that the mirror is where it is.
M1 (The M1 and only)
Does anybody know if the transit museum is holding a bus festival on Court street this year? I thought the event last year had a big crowd; I enjoyed it.
I was at Kings Highway in Brooklyn today and saw a RTS bus with a tiny light over the headlightS on the driver's side. The light was Orangish-Red. What is that light?
I asked that question several months ago on B-T. I believe that the answer is a brake retarder (whatever that is). Go back thru my posts and find that question and then check the responses. I believe one of them answered the question.
That's what it is (or, rather, indicates), all right. Actually, the light indicates that the retarder is OFF, which is how it's supposed to be set in wet weather.
David
I've also saw this light on a few Orions on the M-100 line during my last trip to NYC
What the reason for the switch of terminals in Downtown Bklyn for the B26? I assume ridership patterns??????
BM34x
The issue was to share common terminals with 1 or 2 other lines,,,Dispatchers,,etc
This will be happening,,shortly ,with the B16 ,B43 B48
Steve
B41 B26 B38 B52
B25 Passes By also
Well, the B16 and 43 are from the same depot.
The B26,38, and B52 are from the same depot as well.....
BM34x
All 3 of these routes are going to be terminating on Lincoln Road,,bet Flatbush and Ocean Av
Does anyone remember the old Yonkers Transit Corp. that was around in the late 1960s and early 1970s. In addition to their many transit buses, they also had 5 GMC SD 5302 suburban coaches that were 53 passenger capacity. They did an awful lot of charter work with their transits as well as their coaches. The company was owned by J.J. Schreiber and their buses were green and white. I would like to know if anyone has any color pictures of their buses.
Yonkers Transit, originally had Mack c-49s when they stopped the Trolleys in the early 50s
I remember those Mack's very well. My grandfather worked for the Dept. of Parks at 242nd Street in Van Cortlandt Park, and when we'd visit him there, there were always a couple of the Yonkers Transit buses there. I remember when they got the first TDH5302's, the colors on the buses seemed to be a bit brighter than the Macks.
I began shooting the Westchester lines in the 1960's while in high school, and continued from there thru the years. Yonkers had the strangest, cleanest smelling diesel fuel I ever came across. And it was used on fishbowls and Macks alike. It was the first company I ever saw the "new look" Macks on, a study in mixed emotions for me as I liked it but loved the tough look of the standard Macks.
Many of my old slides are "super slides" and all too often photo labs won't touch them to duplicate or print up, possibly because they don't know how.
J Caronetti
That diesel exhaust -- was it that same funky smell that Bee Line buses out in Long Island emitted? I remember Bee Line using some additive, and they claimed it was supposed to make the exhaust smell like "roses".
Well, maybe old dead ones in the compost heap....
If you could have someone with a Slide Scanner on their computer scan these super slides on to a zip disc, I can print them out in Photoshop and make any necessary color corrections. My scanner only does 35 milimeter slides, but my friend on the next block, who is a professional photographer has a scanner that can deal with your slides. I assume they are either the old 620 or 127 size or maybe even the 4 x 5.
They are 127.
I'll need to do some checking around re: the scanner. Good idea, though.
JRCaronetti
Does anyone know anything about the TMC RTS 06 Methanols operating in Puerto Rico?
Anyone know of any pictures?
M1 (The M1 and only)
The only information I can find regarding TMC and Puerto Rico is five RTS's being built for them in 1992.
They were T80206's, serials NR828658 - NR828662 -- Metropolitan Bus Authority fleet numbers 92105 - 92109, delivered in 8/92. The TMC production records I have do not indicate anything about methanol, though on all the SCRTD buses the TMC prodrecs DO mention it. (The Puerto Rico buses were built in between SCRTD 1221 and 1222.)
Check out the MBA website and it has a great photo of one showing the leftside and it is a bonna fide Methanol as it has the screened panel near the rear wheel.
Tottaly identical to the RTD order.
May of been a tie in buy.
M1 (The M1 and only)
It would be nice if you posted the URL.
Anyway, if you did, maybe there would be one for an English version, assuming one exists.
Nothing big to salivate over - but anyway...
run 5 on 74(the guy with alot of long hair) went up the hill with 267 at about noon. About 1230 he was college bound with QV RTS 3906 (with a lousy right front suspension), later on he was seen with 512.
i just found it interesting. i havent seen an RTS on the 74 in like 2-3 years
see, big deal right?
I've noticed that Orions that have recently been painted seem to also be receiving LED tailights at the same time.
Notably 267 and 258.
I noticed one of the older orions from MCH (I think 255), had a front LED dest. sign.
That would be Orion 225 with the LED front sign. It had that sign installed back when it was assigned to Stengel about two years ago.
Isn't 225 still at Stengel?
224-226 were transferred to MCH.
Q46#8357Gary
Oh ok. Thanks! :)
Saw Orion diesel 624 near Roosevelt Field pulled over with engine cover up and supervisor on scene at around 6:30pm.
Then saw Orion CNG 156 being towed southbound on Glen Cove road at around 8pm.
And summer aint here yet, just wait till they run those A/C and strain the engines more.
Is there anybody here that drives for LI Bus, that could fill me in on the state of the bus fleet?
here i am visiting in phoenix arizona burning up in this
HOT DESERT !! man ........!!
the buses here - windows are SCRATCHED UP worse than los angeles
county !! how about where you live !! ??
Not to sound philosophical,
but it's amazing (and sad) how things like grafitti and scratchitti have been able to make its way across the country (and maybe the world) just like a fashion style.
And unlike fashion style, grafitti has never really gone "out of style". If you think of it, stuff like bell bottoms and platform shoes were able to go both in and out of style within the period of a few decades - but grafitti has always been around.
But then again, what is grafitti? It's simply a continuation of the drawings found by archaelogists in prehistoric caves and roman buildings.
you are right i have seen this stuff at gas stations too !!
I Live in Metro Phoenix And we Can't see out of the side windows to see the view of the "Big Brown Cloud", Valley Metro Transit Spent In 1998-1999 1.5 Million US Dollars to replace windows on buses. In Tempe a Phoenix suburb windows have yet to be scrached. (By the way Valley Metro Is working on a thin cheap sheet of disposable plastic to protect windows from scratches.
sure was not on the McDowell avenue buses that I rode there last week !!
and i thought lost angeles was bad !!! ( and it is by the way ) ....... but phoenix arizona ??
do you still live in phoenix and have you rode on any bus on McDowell avenue ??
and your answer is ___________________________________________________________________!!!!!
I was employed at Valley Metro Transit From 1993 - 1999 and a passenger from 1984 - present, as an employee I rode every local route and 2 of the 12 express bus routes. I have lived in the phoenix metro area since 1980 previous to that i lived 2 blocks from the Euclid Avenue A Train Subway station In The Great City Of Brooklyn.
the bus i robe in phoenix last week the Mcdowell bus looked worse than some MTA buses here in los angeles county !!
it was a shocker to me when i saw this !!
Mcdowell Road #17. Van Buren St #3, Buckeye Rd #13, Broadway Road #45, Southern Avenue #61 Routes Travel Thru The South and south central areas of phoenix an area with large population of gang members. the buses on these routes are hit the most with Graffiti and scrachetti. However each bus is randomly assigned on routes thouout the City of phoenix. Some of these buses are assigned to routes operating In the Town of Paradise Valley (Anti-Transit perfer personal BMW or Simular personal Vel.) and The City of Scottsdale (Only Sunday Bus service Runs down Scottsdale road at 10 min per mile(Sunday & late night service Fully funded By the City Of Tempe, Az))
.......where I whent wrong was i expected to not see what i experence everyday in los angeles county
scratchitti on every mta los angeles buses .....................didnt expect this in phoenix especially with that
durango jail and harsh in-justic system down there !! ..............thanks ........
Monday AM I got a call that a MetroCard had jammed up one of our Express runs. They "Road Called" it once the trip was complete, i.e. everyone on the run after the jam got a free ride.
The bus returned late AM and sure enough there was the MC. At lunch I swung by Main Street & scanned the card (we don't have one at this depot). The message said "see agent" :-(
At the window I said "my card didn't work in your bus this AM". The Station Agent replyed "we're going to fix you right up". The card was bad and fortunately it was a value card, so the Agent was able to move the $37.70 to a new card.
- Service, we sent the new card back the customer (both were palin on the back so the customer probally didn't notice).
- Selfish, if we had sent the old card back it would have just jammed up our farebox again.
Mr t__:^)
Can anyone tell me when the Rt. 22-Pitt & Ridge St route in Manhattan was discontinued? Also, the date that the Av. B and East Broadway routes were turned over to the City. Weren't they a profit-making company?
Carl M.
Avenue B and East Broadway Transit went out of business the end of March in 1980. The TA took over the routes on the last Sunday when a new pick was started. The company closed basically because it could not get rid of the M8 Grand Street Crosstown route which was a money loser and its fleet needed major replacement. In addition the company was about to lose its depot to an urban renewal project. Also at the time the contract with the TWU was up. It just did not pay to remain open.
Thank You
Gotta question for the bus experts: Why were the majority of buses built with a single entrance door, forcing passengers to line up to board/alight. Streetcars were built with double-stream doors ("Both sides up, please"), even back to the 1920's, and trolley buses were too, but only a tiny number of buses ever were. Why?
The purpose of the one door or "Muzzle loader" was to board at one point and alight at a far distant point.
This was typically for commuters traveling far distances on bus lines (Or routes) that only picked up for one leg expressed it to another zone where it was "Discharge Only"
M1 (The m1 and only)
So, why are the majority of transit buses built with just a single-stream front door? It's most likely inertia, (that's they way it's always been, why change?) but almost everthing streetcar has double-stream front doors, so why the bus? go back to 1930 - loads of streetcars have double-stream doors, but the "new, modern" bus only has a single stream door.
What's the reason, or did I just answer my own question?
Some bus models did come with double stream front doors:
Fifth Avenue's #2501, TDH5102
Chicago Motor Coach, TDH 5502
NYC Board of Transportation C-50 and TDH 5101
But to answer your question... I don't know.
P.S. ... aren't the Classic's front door wider than standard front doors?
I think the reasoning behind streetcars having the double-stream doors is that most streetcars in them old days were two-man cars and the driver didn't have to worry too much about fare collection as the conductor did that. Buses had only the driver, so the narrow doors kept the fare evasion down to a minimum (of course, there were always those who snuck in the back door when it was open).
What about PCC's - Double-stream doors, no conductor (exceptions, but ignored here) and very little fare evasion. Most PCC's have each door half controlled separately, but both doors can be opened together easily, and usually were. (thus - "Both sides up, please."
I don't think fare evasion was a heavy consideration, so the why still awaits an answer.
The toronto PCC cars were set up so that the front front door was an entrance door and the rear front door was an exit, both center doors were exit only exept in the subway where all doors could be used for each
Chicago loved the FLX buses with the double stream front doors. The newer low floor buses like the NOVA low floor have wide front and rear doors to speep loading and unloading.
Overal transit spends too much time dealing with fare evasion and not enough time on service and decent schedules.
Toronto PCC's also only have 1 switch for the front doors on the gang switch. Both doors open out at the same time. "Both sides up please, mind the doors."
I re-checked my pictures and the barier is to keep people from exiting at the front. Both front doors come up and are channeled into the farebox before heading down the aisle. Thanks Dan
http://www.nycsubway.org/us/pcc/kenosha/pcc/kenosha4.jpg
The new Nova-LFS I'm not sure what type of door you'd actually call it, but it's definetly wide enough for people going in and out at the same time.
It's a wider version of the old GMC Slide/glide door, like the front doors on the fishbowls. It looks different when it is not down there in the step well.
Were the old GMC doors that wide?
not even close to being that wide. They work the same way as the fishbows but the new bus has a much wider door.
They had slide-glide then?
Many Bee-Line Westchester County buses have a double door up front separated by a railing so folks can exit and enter at the same time in a crowd. Somwhow this was never a consideration for city buses.
Also, with all the effort and money spent to put in new Metrocard ready fare boxes, why are NYC buses the only ones in the country I know of which don't accept a dollar bill? I suspect the MTA is unwilling to refigure their counting machines and train employees.
In LA our M.A.N artics that RTD had operated from 1978-91 had seprate railings for entrance and alghtments.
I remember as a kid flying up the alightment side passing by the hoards of passengers waiting to board. Dont worry I had my bus pass no "Highballing" here.
I dont know if the few east cost M.A.N's had this but I would be interested.
M1 (The m1 and only)
those charm free MAN artics I got from Pittsburg had a seperate rail also to divide the entrance and exit. I just saw 3007 and 3009 the other day and they definately have the rails.
The step rails were in the Pittsburgh AMG/MAN (3000-3019) artics as well as the MAN (3050-3079) artics but they were not used as most people think they would be. These coaches have been retired by the way.
Stop downtown and you still had to fight to get off the bus because you has two rows of people trying to get on at once instead of just one. It's always been like that even in the height of the streetcar era. There never has been much passenger etiquette on the buses and streeetcars in Pittsburgh. Rather unfortunate but the steel mill mentality still rules strong here even though the mills are long gone.
RDChilds
It seems that the dual railings were standard on the eary M.A.N artics that did not have wheelchair lifts in the front doors.
As the San Francisco MUNI 6000's have a front door wheelchair lift with no railings.
M1 (The M1 and only)
A Rts 6/8 -> made By TMC and now by NOVA has a wide front door only with a wheelchair lift for rush hour commuter use only. The city of Tempe, AZ will have 2 of these buses on loan from Nova for test runs on express routes 520 and 521 to Downtown Phoenix (Operated By ATC/Vancom) In July. (Hope They Have Artic A/C)
A Rts 6/8 -> made By TMC and now by NOVA has a wide front door only with a wheelchair lift for rush hour commuter use. The city of Tempe, AZ will have 2 of these buses on loan from Nova for test runs on express routes 520 and 521 to Downtown Phoenix (Operated By ATC/Vancom) In July. (Hope They Have Artic A/C)
While riding on 5506 on Q60 today, I heard some terrible news for riders: The Queensboro Br Westbound exit ramp to 60 St will be closed for the next 3-5 months meaning headaches for Q60 operators. They pick up where the Q32 drops off. Goes to 3rd Ave makes a right. Then to 62 St makes a right. Then to 2nd Ave makes a right. Then a left to go over the Bridge. 2nd Ave in the Afternoon is a nightmare!!! Expect buses to be late if you're traveling on this line- I KNOW I will!!!
Q60#5503Gary
Please verify the section that states where the M32 drops off.what are the exact cross streets
steve
The Q60 stop is on E. 60th, far side of Second Avenue, facing west. This stop is shared with the westbound Q32 (not M32).
Thank you
Where is bus 298? The one with the 6V92TA engine. Never seen it in service. Is it still in CS depot?
Yep saw it on Q32 recently with new paint on it.
Q46#7030Gary
TA has decided that after the 5 NovaBUS RTS-06 Hybrids arrive, there will be no more RTS coaches purchased.
If anything else is purchased from NovaBUS, it would be a LFS CNG or Hybrid Low Floor Bus. As of right now NovaBUS is not manufacturing a Low Flor LFS CNG or Hybrid, but they are working on prototype models as of now.
When these models are completed and in production then the TA will consider purchasing the LFS in a CNG or Hybrid format.
R142 Boi 2K
While the RTS has been a rugged and reliable workhorse for the TA, it has become outdated with the original design dating back to the late 1970's. New Flyer, Orion and others offer much more state of the art buses. As a driver I have driven nothing but RTS's in the ten years I've been with the authority. Personally I look forward to driving other types of buses. Having said that, long live the RTS!
Wait a second, the RTS looks OUTDATED???
The Classic, Orion, and New Flyer D60 all look like shoeboxes on wheels! The RTS at least looks somewhat streamlined by comparison. Oh, and IIRC, the RTS was the pioneer of the stainless-steel tube-frame design. It has individually-replaceable lower body panels (split into 5' sections) that will NEVER rust!
Outdated my left big toe!
-Hank
When I said the design was outdated I was'nt referring to the exterior. As a driver I find the ergonomics of the bus to be atrocious. The drivers compartment is cramped, especially the 1993 & 1996 models, and the controls are illogically placed and hard to get to. The climate control system is a joke with no means of regulating the heat or AC and the drivers heat/AC control is a little valve which is useless. You either end up freezing or dying of heat stroke.
The side window provides no added ventilation and the front windshield acts like a magnifying glass intensifying the sun's rays. The mirrors are the worst you'll find on any transit bus and in many cases are useless. The 1993 & 1996 models ride like forklifts with enough shakes and rattles to loosen the fillings of your teeth. Drivers of the Orion V and New Flyer articulated I have spoken to all agree that from a drivers standpoint those buses are state of the art as far as ride, driver comfort, and placement of controls. I could care less if those buses look like shoe boxes.When you are spending 8 hours a day behind the wheel it's comfort that is most paramount.
The RTS has been a rugged workhorse for the TA but it is time to move on.
I am forced to agree with DHF60. The RTS/NOVA has probably been the most reliable bus transit has ever invested in, but from an operator's comfort point of view, they are a disaster. He mentions the 93 and 96 models, but it is actually all of them. All the new RTS's built since 93 have very cramped operator's compartments, mainly because the seats will not go back far enough. Transit tried to make modifications by drilling more holes in the seat tracks so the seat could move farther back, but it is still very cramped. I am only 5ft 8" and I have no leg room at all when the seat is pushed all the way back. I often wonder how the taller operators can deal with it. Adjusting the height of the seat is yet another challenge. When you turn the knob you can only hope the seat stops at the height you want it since it is hard to control the air flow into the seat. Often passengers tell me "that seat sure looks comfortable". Boy, looks can sure be deceiving. Many times you feel like you are sitting on broken bricks. The controls are little better to reach on the newest RTS's since all the controls to the right of the operator have been moved to the left.(thank God!) The operators window is useless in terms of ventilation because transit orders the buses without the bigger window on top of the driver's window. When it rains, forget it. The defrosters don't do anything at all. I often have to wipe the glass with my hands to see out. Many times I felt like roadcalling the bus because my vision out was so poor. And yes, that valve to adjust the temperature of the front blowers does nothing most of the time. The operators booster/blower should be 2 speeds instead of 1 because either I freeze or I roast. Adjusting the direction of the vents doesn't help much. The climate control should have a temperature adjustment on it also, by the operator because also when it rains, and the passengers get on wet, the first thing that they do is cry that it is so cold on the bus. When you turn it off to stop the crying, guess what? The windows are fogged up again. The biggest joke of them all is the a/c vent over and behind the operator's head.( on the newer RTS's) which is supposed to keep the operator cool in the summertime. I think it is really there for decoration. BIG AL
I have to agree with both of you about the RTS. It may be a good bus from the management/maintenance point of view, but they really do suck for the drivers. I'm not in perfect shape -- but then, I am not, by far, anywhere near as large as some drivers I work with -- and I have a heck of a time wiggling in/out of the driver compartment. We have had a LOT of driver back injuries in our RTS buses compared to the other makes we drive, and every driver that has been involved in such injuries (including myself) blame the way you must contort yourself to get in/out of the compartment with the farebox etc. in the way.
We have a mostly RTS Fleet, (13 GMC new looks still running) and just took delivery of 3 Nova Low floors. We evaluate them and will see how they do, prior to our next bus order. Don't be too surprised to see a RTS lowfloor prototype sometime soon.
Joe
We already had our prototype and much to a sad annoucement, she's back at NovaBUS!
R142 Boi 2K
How was it??
The NovaBus Low Floor paid a visit to Baltimore in February, it was nicely recieved, but the management and the operators both remarked that it would never survive Baltimore's pot-holed, shell shocked streets. It did make a trip on the 23 line, but the passengers weren't really sure what it was. They did like the lack of a farebox. Our only red bus is our Holiday bus.
I suspect we will stay with NABI, barring a return to the Flx Metro by another builder.
Rumor is that late this year or early next year, Nova's Roswell New Mexico plant will begin building a low-floor version of the RTS. This will be a different design from the low-floor LFS built in Quebec. The story I heard over a year ago was that the prototype low-floor RTS was being built at some facility in California, but I havenšt read or seen anything indicating that it has made a public debut yet. There was a story recently in an Albuquerque NM newspaper about Nova bus that did confirm they would start building low-floor buses in Roswell in 2001.
There was also a rumor that Nova, which is 51% owned by Volvo, was going to offer yet another low-floor design based on Volvo's European B-series model.
My thanks to Steve Hoskins and Big Al. The RTS is a torture chamber on wheels. Just last night I had bus #5031, a 1998 with less than 30K on the odometer. The bus was literally shaking itself apart while at idle. Just imagine what it will be like when it has 300K on it. Hopefully the TA is serious when they said they would ask for drivers input on all new bus purchases.
TA can ask for the employee's input as much as they want. But they will do whatever they want anyway regardless of what we advise them. BIG AL
The TA isn't the only property that does things this way. Most corporations look only at the bottom line, not what their employees think.
The TMC and Novabus RTS are creampuffs as copared to the GMC RTS models.
The revised suspension designed by GMC shortly before they sold out to TMC really smoothed things out.
The RTS can be very smooth as long as it is prperly maintaned by the owning agency.
Here in LA or MTA has about 50 of the original 940 GMC RTS 04's built between 1980/81 and they can be at times a fright to ride.
However a neighborhing agency OCTA keeps thier RTS tip top and 03 models at that.
LACMTA had bought 13 fine OCTA GMC RTS 03's and sent them to the worst division (Div.5) and they did not last a year before they sold them.
I blame that on the division they sent them to.
At least I rode a few in service.
M1 (The M1 and only)
I agree with you regarding the first TMC RTS's which were delivered to NYCTA in 1988. They are the smoothest riding and most rattle free of the entire series. It seems, at least in my opinion, that between 1993 and 1996 ride quality went steadily down hill culminating in the 1996 model which will keep chiropractors in business for years to come. The 1998 models ride better but have the nasty tendency to vibrate like mad when stopped and at idle.
The last TMC year ('94 or '95) that the MTA got (the NYCMTA) is the best riding of them all. I'm not sure if I got the years right, so I'll also note that they are the 86XX's.
This may be a factor of the engine vibrations.
All of our Los Angeles MTA TMC's are now D.D 6v92 Diesel engines except for engine testbeds on the former MEthanol 06's from 1992/93 which are units 1310 (Series 50) and 1422 (Cummins M-11) just like the NY 9140 series.
1273 was converted to CNG with a Cummins L-10 but was a flop. Now it too is Diesel and has constantly failed since bieng repowered to its third fuel type. Perhaps a record in that reguard.
Also I rode LACMTA 8674 GMC RTS 04 from 1981 saturday and was one of the smoothest runners I could remember. Relitavley no rattles.
M1 (The M1 and only)
One of the reasons for engine smoothness has to do with the previous engines used in the RTS's of GMC and TMC manufacture. 2 cycle Detroit Diesel power plants were being used. The 6v-71N & 6v-92TA. 2 cycle V-type engines run smoother but they are not as clean as the 4 cycle inline type engines being used now. Detoit Diesel knew that the 6L-71TA and 6v-92TA DDEC's could not meet the future EPA air emissions standards and so they were discontinued for use in new transit buses, thus Detroit Diesel followed the ways of Cummins and went for the 4 cycle, inline engine type. In 1993 NYCTA purchased some of the last buses in this country to be powered by the Detroit Diesel Series 92 aka 6v-92TA DDEC III, which was also the last buses purchased with Donaldson Dual Carbon Particulate Traps. The 1993 TMC RTS's along with the 1993 Orion V's were very smooth runners and still are minus their particulate traps as of current. The deal with inline engines like the Cummins C8.3, L10, and M11 along with the Detroit Diesel Series 40, 50, and 60 are they are much cleaner burning than their 2 cycle counterparts but they vibrate alot more. Well I hope that helps a little and look forward to reading more on this topic which by the way is very interesting.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
You're so right - these latest engines are not nearly as smooth as the older engines. I often wonder how much thought has gone into developing engine mounts that can absorb some of the vibration.
Wayne
V-type engines have counter-rotating balance shafts, while inline engines generally do not. This is the source of the increased vibration. Gennerally, inline engines don't NEED balance shafts, because the weight doesn't shift. So it becomes an issue of motor mounts and frame stiffness.
-Hank
Yes!!! Seriously, I realize the RTS is a good bus - but I'm glad there is now more of a chance for NYCT to have a diverse fleet. Of course one could argue that the NYCT fleet is quite diverse compared to the early 90's NYCTA fleet.
Wayne
Yeah, but look at the arguments AGAINST diversity-
Less spare parts to store, less spending on training, easily interchangable parts...
The economy of it is fantastic.
-Hank
Re: Diversity - Yes, I agree with you. My statement was merely me expressing the fact that I'm no big RTS fan. However if NYCT had a fleet like MTA (Baltimore) which is mostly Flxible Metros with the newer buses being NABI's I wouldn't complain at all.
The RTS has clearly worked well for NYCT(A) and I guess the bottom line is that's what counts.
Wayne
This will undoubtedly be a topic that quite a few of you will have something to say about, but I feel that Green Lines' Rockaway Division, which operates the Q21, Q22 and Q35 routes should be taken over by the TA. Some of you may argue that ALL of GBL should go to the TA, but for now I'd settle for the Rockaway Division. They often have the most rickety and filthiest buses on these routes. Most of the time they operate 1985 or 1986 RTS's that are in piss-poor condition. Meanwhile, the 1993 TMC's and the Orions are in service on Green's mainline service. I am quite surprised that residents of the Rockaways (especially in Rock Park) put up with this mistreatment.
With some route re-assignments in the TA's Brooklyn Division, the Q22 and Q35 could be operated out of Flatbush Depot, while the Q21 can go to either Jamaica or East New York Depots. As a matter of fact why not combine the Q22 and Q35 and operate the route from Far Rockaway to Flatbush Junction. This would eliminate the need for Q22 buses to have to pay a toll on the Marine Parkway Bridge as they deadhead to/from Flatbush Depot.
Anyway, just a thought...
Sounds good to me, but I am just an average schmo......
BM34x
Q21 runs on a 72 minute headway during middays and evening rush??? Going from 8 min to 72 is a big difference....
BM34x
How about going from 72 minutes to 8 minutes
It will be wishful thinking of the TA taking over the Green Line Rockaway routes but it will not happen because of the drivers and the maintance workers. They are ATU and the Brooklyn Division is TWU and
civil service. The TA will have to hire new drivers for the routes and what will Green do with the excess drivers.
BTW if the TA took over the Q-22 it will not have to pay a toll on the Marine Pkway Bridge because it will be all MTA
Thank You
The rockaway lines have been this way for ever i rode the Q22 regualry in the mid 70s (76-80) to and from high school and it sucked then. Rode JBL also (as the other half of the trip) and the difference was amazing. At least one braekdown a week on gbl and maybe one on jbl every 4 or 5 months.
GBL had 2 Q60's break down on Queens Blvd today. At 49 St and Queens Blvd, bus 5502 was down. At 63 St and Queens Blvd, bus 231 was down.
Boy did that hurt the bus I rode: 277-got hammered with passengers. If it wasn't for 624 going ahead of my bus it would've been a lot worse.
Q60#5503Gary
The NJT artics, numbered in the 92XX series, what make are they?
The 91xx and 92xx Series Articulated buses at New Jersey Transit are Volvo B-10M. The 91xx Series are Volvo B-10M Transit's with 3-Doors and are 102" Wide and the 92xx series are Volvo B-10M Suburbans with 2-Doors, 96" Wide, Parcel Racks and Suburban-Style Seats.
Enjoy them now because by 2002 they will be replaced with new NABI Model 436 Articulated Buses.
R142 Boi 2K
At the north end of Union Square, at 17th street, there is a police bus, and then right behind it, a bus from WS, I think 4528, with people always sitting on it. What is this?
This is probably a Swing Bus or a Supplimental bus to the Polics Bus because the same set up is a Times Square sometimes and it's always 4528!
R142 Boi 2K
I think know exactly what it is, it is an arrest bus for fare evaders I think. It's been at lexington avenue and 86th street with your average joe on the bus with police officers putting handcuffs on the evaders.
Clayton Parker
917-344-3780 ext. 9987
webmaster@claytonwebdesign.org
Are there Artics on the M34 for the Auto Show???? I plan to attend this weekend............
BM34x
M34 runs out of Hudson Pier and they have No artics-sorry :( I believe the only routes that have Artics as of right now are the M79 ands M86.
M79#5300Gary
Today along Queens Blvd, I saw 3 Jamaica MCI Classics 603-605 with MINI-wraps just like what Orion has. I saw a QS 51x with the new wrap but couldn't tell what number it was b/c I was too far away from it-but I could tell that it was a 51X bus. Maybe Thurston heard about this. I know the mini wraps are on 509 521 524 and 559.
Q46#8357Gary
Yes they've been doing those mini-wraps for a few months now. The most recent is the two piece one. This week a new full wrap was going on ... has a bus driver theme. The minis are more bucks then the big posters, but less then the full coach. I suspect it's a whole new bunch of customers. It all pays the bills.
Also I seem to remember someone reporting that Liberty did a MCI a while ago ?
Mr t__:^)
Yesterday I attended the Auto Show at the Javits Center...Nice show but nothing with buses. However, my brother-in-law, my son and I parked in a lot on 36th and 10th. While leaving the show I noticed that on 35th near 11th a Sunrise Coach was parked. From a distance it appeared to be a Prevost H3, but there looked like there was a side exit door similar to a rear door on a transit bus. Were my eyes playing tricks on me or is this a custom coach for a particular purpose. The livery was definitely the new silver and pink Sunrise Coach (out of Greenport LI). My instant reaction is maybe it is used in airports for shuttling to and from rental lots for airline crews.
Anyone have any ideas ???
join
NYC Bus News
http://www.egroups.com/group/NYCBUSNEWS
I wonder who did the work on this one? Is it Richard Broome (Guy who did Subtalk). In any case, very sharp!
SORRY! Typo, thats Brome
Amen !!!!!
Oops, sorry I guess I should have posted about it. Peggy Darlington created the logo.
-Dave
As per call to NYC Transit Museum today (718) 243 - 8601 Bus Fest will either be Sept. 9 or Sept. 16.....The date will be firmed up on Tuesday....I'll call and then leave a post.
#9306WF f/k/a Hart Bus
Hi
Does anyone have a Phamplet,etc,for the route
Presently ,it is being operated by NJT,but Broadway
Bus might start a similar more permanent operation
Thanks
Steve
This bus route is to suppliment the Light Rail. There is a schedule for it but it's not like the others. It as one page pamphlet with times on it, Not even the buses route.
R142 Boi 2K
1. When the M16 did go to the Javits Ctr, why was it the all night service and the M34 cut during late night hours???
2. Why was there and M16 at all? Why not add buses to the M34??????
BM34x
It's the Port Authority Bus Terminal Branch.
The M-16 and M-34 were at one time one route which was known as the M-16. It opearted from 1st Ave/E. 34th St to 12th Ave/W. 42nd St via 10th Ave(all times) or 12th Ave/W.34th St(except midnight hours). In the early 1970's a new West Bound branch to 12 Ave/42 St was created via 8th Ave. The 10th Ave branch was later discontinued. When Javits Center opened in 1986 the 12 Ave/34 Street branch was extended into Javits Center and redesignated the M-34. A M 16 Shuttle from 1st Ave to Waterside was started and later merged into the M-16.
In the Fall 1005 budget cuts the M 16 discontinued service between 9th Ave and 12th Ave due to a duplication of the M-42.
Hope this is helpful
Thank You
That's what my State Senator Dean Skelos is pushing as the solution to colleague Tom Gulotta's recent habbit of robbing the funds from LI Bus to fill his budget hole. Dean is on the MTA Board and is one of several politations to "officially" suggest this (so if it flys he will neither get all the blame or praise, smart politation).
There was an article about this in yesterday's NewsDay written by Liam Pleven. Interesting that the others involved in this either don't like Liam or Liam didn't try very had to reach them because:
- MTA, Exec. Dir. Marc Shaw ...could not be reached last night
- LI Bus, Pres. Neal Yellin ... did not return calls
- State Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver ... could not be reached
- County Exec. Tom Gulotta ... couldn't be reached
Is this a good thing for Nassau bus riders .... well LI Bus won't be as independant in their thinking as they have been ... and the MTA will likely modify things to best serve LIRR connections & other MTA interests. Personally I think the more accountable a public service company is the better it is. In my opinion the MTA isn't very accountable to anyone accept Gov. George P. right now. I'm also sure that our friend Larry will be quick to point out how NYC taxpayers are going to end up paying for some of the LI Bus service. That's not a good thing either !
Mr t__:^)
Sen. Skelos is not on the MTA Board. However, he is in a position to veto the MTA's capital program.
David
Correction: NYC taxpayers will end up paying for ALL of Nassau County's bus service. That's how the burbs think - "Yes, those city folk are already paying their fair share AND some of my share, but they aren't paying ENOUGH of my share."
Keep your eyes open for this bus. Not only she has an Orange Destination sign but she has full shrink-wrap on the sides and partially on the back-not covering the top part. I saw her while I was on the Q46 this morning on the Q60 I believe she's on run 6007. I'll try my best to get a pic of her real soon.
Q60#5503Gary
Is this the same sign as some of the Command Orions have?
M1 (The M1 and only)
Ballios Destination Sign is used on the Command 4961, MTA 522 and GBL 5503. All orange signs are the same.
Q60#5503Gary
Having traveled to East 45 Street, Bayonne, on the light rail yesterday, I walked north on Broadway to the Bergen Avenue IBOA garage, found Wendy's clean facility, and hopped on northbound Bergen Avenue Flxible 2085, fare $1.15. We zipped to Journal Square in 25 minutes. But what a reminder it was of Lexan windows! Almost impossible to see out the side windows. I must congratulate whoever decided to rid LI Bus and NYCT of Lexan. Does the new glass have a brand name?
Hi
Does anyone have any details on the 2 New Routes ,this message being geared towards to TA Empployees from the Depots or Operators
M2000 Columbus Circle--South Street Seaport
S2000 St George-----Ft Wadsworth
Thank you
Steve
In the latest Metro magazine, an ad for New Flyer's Invero bus caught my eyes. Any guess who will be the first operator on the east coast?
www.newflyer.com
Several months back a demo Invero spent some time at Atlantic Diesel in Lodi, NJ. I think Trevor may have gotten a picture of it. I got a picture, but it didn't come out very well - I was too far away. I recollect that the demo paid a visit to Gleason depot.
Yes I did get the photo and as soon as I get it developed I'll post it here. Also it did tour Jackie Gleason and Gun Hill.
R142 Boi 2K
Got to ride and inspect that bus at APTA in Orlando last October. Quite a unit!
JCaronetti
This morning I saw a blue and white new look Flxible on the LIE that was heading west around exit 57, s/n 606. Anyone know who this belongs to? Was this that training vehicle mentioned a while back here on Bus Talk?
Also a rare sight this afternoon, two N79's one right after the other in Plainview. Probably the cause of a traffic delay.
Probably heading back to NYC from Atlantic Diesel in Bohemia..
There's an outside chance it was Joe Saitta's restored Flxible new look. I think he last had it in blue and white colors, which may have been Mid-Island Transit's colors. This bus was MSBA #699. There should be a picture of it on this site at one of the recent Bus Fests.
Thanks Sid, that's what I was thinking but it wasn't Joe's bus. The paint scheme was a bit different and the bus that I had seen was a newer model, it had the small oval rear window. Joe's bus has the full size rear window.
Sounds like you may be speaking of an ex-Transport of New Jersey Flxible.
Wayne
Could even be an NYCT bus. They still have a few of those old buses around serving as mobile classrooms and such. NYPD still has at least 2 for community service and mobile processing centers.
-Hank
Could have been an ex-New Jersey bus. Definately wasn't an ex-NYCT bus. It didnt have the emergency flashers next to the front destination sign. If I remember correctly, the front half of the bus including the roof was blue and the rear half including the roof was white. I'm not sure if it came from Atlantic Diesel,it was already on the LIE past the entrance ramp. BTW, I pass Atlantic Diesel to and from work.
Hello All, Can anyone advise when will the TA hold it's Bus Festival, I heard it will be at the Staten Island Home Port.
Thank You ........
If you check my post of several days ago, according to the Transit Museum the Bus Fest is to be in Brooklyn on either 9/9 or 9/16. More news will be available this Tuesday. I'll call and post an update....
You may be confusing this with a Bus Roadeo scheduled for SI on 6/10, details and directions are to be posted by other B-T'ers
Again, I still need an exact location to give proper directions.
-Hank
Hey, even in The Leader it only says "South Beach Broadwalk", so I'm not sure we'll get too much closer.
Someone email me a reminder 1 week prior to. I'll post general directions to the area, and the best way to find what we're looking for.
-Hank
Thanks! :)
I was waiting for westbound M34/16 at 3rd Ave. around 4 PM for about 45 minutes. Then M16 came but the driver didn't open the front door. Had to wait for the next one (M16 again). This time people had learned their lesson and started entering through the back door.
Does anyone know what happened?
Arti
I waited 1 hr and walked from E13 to 42 st,,with no buees in sight,,Northbound
Anyone have any insight
Steve
Maybe it's the good weather :-)
Arti
My Dad, A QV B/O, (run 317 on the Q46, Richard Roach). I sat in his driver's seat while he stopped at 7-11. Man all the QV people stop there: Anyway I played around with the luminator prgramming alot of codes, like Q84, Q44, M15, BX55, S78 and X63. It was kinda unusal seeing Jamaica and Stengel numbers in a Queens Vilage bus. Anyway I got to open the front and Back doors. I wanna know one thing though, Why don't operators like to use the Touch bar Bypass?
A word of advice: It's not a good idea to go onto a message board that can be read by supervisors, as well as by bus fans, and say that one's father, whom one names and identifies by run number, lets one sit in the Operator's seat and play with destination signs and various controls. One should also be careful to avoid implying that one's father, a Bus Operator, left the bus unattended.
David
Bus operators do use the touch bar bypass from time to time, but generally there is not much reason to use it. The customers have their own button to hit on the back doors. Ocasionally, we may get a mailperson with a cart that needs to board through the rear doors or maybe a person with a large FOLDED baby carriage who would rather get on in the rear because it is easier, but that is about it. I always like when the customer exits without hitting the touch bar bypass because on some buses, the doors close real slow, and on routes where your running time is very tight, this can really add to your running behind schedule. BIG AL
One is trick to deactivate the system. I found it out though the grape vine. After starting the bus open and close the rear doors, then go back to them and hold both the tapes for about 20sen. This has to be done every time the bus is turned off. This should works on the 4900's-5300's RTS's and the 800's New Flyer's. If any one try it one any of the other buses let me know.
I routinely do not use the air assist because I really don't need it and it clearly takes up valuable time when the doors are closing. I will use the air assist if more than myself is getting off the bus.
Wayne
Here's something that should generate quite a few responses. I recently learned that the new Jamaica depot's location is going to be: drumroll please......inside JFK airport. On N.Boundary road to be exact. Seems like nobody wanted a depot in their neighborhood and this was the only area large enough to hold it. Now let's hope we don't get a 747 landing on the front apron. BIG AL
Where did you learn this,,there is no mention in any MTA Contracts
From what I understand, the decision was just made very recently, so it probably would not be on any contracts or paperwork made public just yet. I found out from another operator who spoke directly to the union. I will look into this myself and see what I find out and any more info I will post within the next few days. BIG AL
Please be aware that decisions regarding bus depots, route assignments, land acquisition, and the like are made at very high levels of management within NYC Transit and/or the MTA itself.
Such decisions are not, not, NOT made, by bus operators or by the unions.
WHERE did you read in my post that this decision was made by either the union or the bus operators? I said the information CAME from the union. The plan was very recently finalized and transit already signed the deal. Ground breaking is supposed to begin later this year or early next with completion to be in 2003 or 2004. BIG AL
It doesn't make sense to build a new depot near JFK Airport because other than the Q-3 no other routes will be near the depot. The cost for dead head time on the other Jamaica Depot lines will increase greatly. In addition where will the drivers swing and how will they get to Jamaica as the only Q-3 will be near the garage.
It just does not make sense but then again somethings the MTA does doesn't make sense any way.
Thank You
These are the Bronx Bus Routes from the past:
BX1-Grand Concourse
BX2-Grand Concourse/Melrose Avenue
BX3-Crotona Avenue/Prospect Avenue (Became the BX17)
BX4-Jerome Avenue/Bainbridge Avenue (Became the BX34)
BX5-Bruckner Boulevard/Story Avenue
BX6/40-Tremont Avenue/Throggs Neck (Became the BX40/42)
BX7-Boston Road (Not in Operation)
BX8-Bronxwood Avenue/Williamsbridge Road
BX9-Eastchester Road (Became the BX31)
BX10-Riverdale Avenue
Bx11-Claremont Parkway/170 Street Crosstown
BX12/19-Pelham Parkway/Fordham Road/207 Street Crosstown/City Island (Both lines became the BX12/City Island Line became the BX29)
BX13-Castle Hill Avenue (Became the BX22)
BX14-Edenwald Avenue
BX15-Gun Hill Road (Became the BX28)
BX16-East Gun Hill Road/Boston Road (Became the BX30)
BX17-Allerton Avenue (Became the BX26)
BX18-Macombs Road
BX20-Broadway-Kingsbridge Road (Became the BX9)
BX21/26-Morris Park Avenue/Boston Road (Both lines became the BX21)
BX22-Country Club/Westchester Avenue (Became the BX14)
BX23-Crosby Avenue/Layton Avenue (Not In Operation)
BX24-Henry Hudson Parkway/Bailey Avenue
BX25-Morris Avenue/Jerome Avenue (Became the BX32)
BX27-Westchester Avenue/Soundview Avenue
BX28/29-Willis Avenue/Third Avenue (Both lines became the BX15)
BX30/31-149 Street Crosstown/Southern Boulevard (Both lines became the BX19)
BX32/33-Saint Ann's Avenue/138 Street Crosstown (Both lines became the BX33)
BX34-163 Street Crosstown (Became the BX6)
BX35-167 Street Crosstown
BX36-180 Street Crosstown
BX37-Ogden Avenue (Became the BX13)
BX38-University Avenue (Became the BX3)
BX39-Sedgwick Avenue (Not In Operation)
BX41-Webster Avenue/White Plains Road
BX42-Westchester Avenue (Became the BX4)
BX43-Highbridge (Not In Operation)
BX52-Orchard Beach (Not In Operation)
BX54-Story Avenue/Parkchester (Not In Operation)
X61-Riverdale/Wall Street
X61? What on earth is that? It doesn't exist now.
It did years ago. I think about a decade ago........
BM34x
It ran from 261 and Riverdale av (approx ) to the Downtown Manhattan Area
It ran from 261 St and Broadway, not Riverdale Av.
The X61 ran out of Kingsbridge Depot (interlined with Bx9), and basically was what would have been the BxM3 Wall Street extension.
The official routing was as follows:
A.M. trips from Broadway & 261st via Broadway, left Van Cortlandt Park South, right Van Cortlandt Avenue West, right Sedgwick, right Fordham, left into Major Deegan Expressway, exit to and across Third Avenue Bridge, into FDR Drive, exit for Pearl St/Brooklyn Bridge, right Pearl St, left Park Row, left Broadway, into State St, into Water St, into Pearl St, to last drop-off at Peck Slip.
PM trips from City Hall via Park Row, left Broadway, into State Street, into Water Street, into Pearl Street, into FDR Drive north, exit to Willis Avenue Bridge, left 135th St, into Major Deegan Expwy, exit Fordham Road, right Fordham, left Sedgwick, left Van Cortlandt Avenue Westleft Van Cortlandt Park South, right Broadway, to 261st Street.
In its dying days, it was banned from the FDR Drive between 90th and 23rd Streets, and wound up following the X92 (non-stop, of course) via York-55th-Second southbound and First Av northbound. That added at least 30 minutes to each trip, and riders started returning to the subway.
After it was put out of its misery in the early-to-mid 1980's, NYCDOT functionally took it over by having the BxM18 (Riverdale-Wall Street) make a stop at 23rd Street to receive transfers from the BxM3 (and later the BxM4A/B and BxM11, too). I'm unsure as to how well-used the transfer is.
An important fact of the X61 was it started with brand-new Grumman 870 #100, where it ran quite regularly; before the full order for 870's was ever placed.
JCaronetti
I remember seeing Grumman 870 #100 at Union Tpke. & Queens Blvd. at one point. I'm not sure if it was on the Q74(44VP) or the Q46(44A).
Grumman 870 #100 was kept by NYCTA. After NYCTA took delivery of their Grumman 870's unit #100 was renumbered to #199 and assigned to Queens Village depot. It usually used as an express bus (since it did have cushioned seats) on the X18 (todays' X68). This bus also had an Detroit Diesel 8V-71 engine.
Wayne
Some corrections and omissions:
Bx6 - Gun Hill Road (became Bx30, extended to Co-op City)
Bx14 - Edenwald Av (absorbed into Bx16)
Bx16 - Nereid Av (branch created to absorb Bx14, Bx19)
Bx19 - Baychester Av (absorbed into Bx16)
Bx21 - Triboro Bridge (not in operation)
Bx23 - Crosby Av (combined with Bx8, extended to Locust Point)
Bx24 - H. Hudson/Bailey (not in operation)
Bx26 - Morris Park Av (became Bx21, extended to Westchester Sq)
Bx28 - White Plains Road (became Bx39, later extended to Shorehaven)
Bx29 - Willis (became Bx15)
Bx32 - St. Ann's Avenue (not in operation)
It's still with us, but everyone left out the good ol BX55. I was pretty young when the BX55 (or BX55-X as they used to identify it) started. It was great in those days as only brand new GMC T6H-5309A's from Kingsbridge depot were assigned to the BX55. It used to be a fun route to ride (if you like speed and less frequent stops) especially since it went S/B on Washington Ave and N/B on Third Avenue. I would go out of my way to ride it on my way home from school - It's a good thing I had a train pass, because the BX55 drivers rarely would permit a student to ride with a bus pass.
For those who care Bronx routes operated out of these depots
BX1 Kingsbridge
BX2 Kingsbridge
BX3 (now BX17) Kingsbridge
BX4 (now BX34) Coliseum
BX5 Coliseum
BX6 (now BX30) Coliseum
BX7 (Discontinued) Coliseum
BX8 Coliseum
BX9 (now BX31) Coliseum
BX10 (now BX7) Kingsbridge
BX11 Kingsbridge
BX12 Coliseum
BX13 (now BX22) Coliseum
BX14 (BX16 covers most of this route) Coliseum
BX15 (now BX28) Coliseum
BX16 Coliseum
BX17 (now BX26) Coliseum
BX18 Coliseum
BX19 (discontinued) Kingsbridge
BX20 (now BX9) Kingsbridge
BX21 (discontinued) never knew this one - I've always suspected that it was not handles by COL, KB or WF
BX22 (now BX14) Coliseum
BX23 (now an extention of BX8) Coliseum
BX24 (discontinued) Kingsbridge
BX25 (now BX32) West Farms
BX26 (now BX21) West Farms
BX27 West Farms
BX28 (now BX39) West Farms
BX29 (now BX15) West Farms
BX30 (now BX19) 146th Street
BX31 (now BX19) West Farms
BX32 West Farms
BX33 West Farms
BX34 (now BX6) Kingsbridge
BX35 Kingsbridge
BX36 West Farms
BX37 (now BX13) Kingsbridge
BX38 (now BX3) Kingsbridge
BX40 Coliseum
BX41 Kingsbridge
BX42 (now BX4) West Farms
BX49 (discontinued) Coliseum
BX52 (discontinued) Coliseum
BX54 Coliseum
BX55 Kingsbridge
BX56 ?????
X61 Kingsbridge
Hey Wayne and all,
Thanx for the re-fresher on the good ol' Bronx routes. I still live there and often-times I'm stumped when trying to recall the days prior to the half-assed renumberings.
With respect to the Bx41, there was a time when it was assigned to Walnut. Not sure, but did it ever come out of Worst Farms? Nice to see it back in Kingsbridge.
As I posted some time ago, when I was in high school, in the 1960's, the Bx2 started up about 5 a.m. from the hub. I lived there at the time. The early runs were always out of Coliseum, using their 5104's and 5106's. Later in the a.m. they would shift to Kingsbridge buses and those early runs would become Bx1's.
JCaronetti
Joe,
I believe the Bx41 did operate out of Walnut when the old Kingsbridge depot closed. When I was in High School I used to ride the Bx1 & 2 also - and most mornings I'd catch one of the rare Bx2's that terminated at 231 St-Rivedale Ave, then dead-headed to the depot. On the way home - most of the time it was Bx1 (via Paul Ave).
It's funny that you said "Worst Farms". During my teen years a fellow subway/bus buff and I used to also refer to West Farms depot as Worst Farms. He grew up in Brooklyn and was more familiar with NYCTA routes and depots while I was a MABSTOA. I always thought that WF, COL and OFS were MABSTOA's worst deopts and my friend thought FP, ENY and JAM had the worst buses.
Wayne
Wayne,
Somewhere in my vast collection of "junk" I have one of the first window fliers the TA/OA would tape up when a change was going to happen. It dealt with the start of Paul Ave service on the Bx2! This was 1964, I believe. I've GOT to look for that!
I still can see TDH5301's signed up and turning onto Paul Ave. I went to Clinton H.S. and saw it all from many a class room. No wonder my grades were the way they were.
By the way, Wayne, where are you living now?
Joe
Joe,
That's pretty cool. I do remember those signs. I never knew about the Bx2 Paul Ave service. How long did it last??? I used to ride the Bx1 Paul Ave route quite often and most of the time (to my delight) it was a Grumman Flxible 870. It wasn't very hard to catch a Grumman 870 on KB routes because they had so many of them. I couldn't see the buses from my classroom, but in elementary school I attend C.S.6 at E. Tremont & Vyse Ave and I used to enjoy watching the 2 & 5 trains just south of the E. Tremont/West Farms Sq. Station.
I moved to Silver Spring (now Bethesda), MD from my beloved NYC in late 1996. This means I still get to enjoy GM fishbowls and the occasional Flxible new-look.
I did come to NYC this weekend for the auto show (I'm a car enthusiast also). After the auto show we decided to take the M10 up to Dallas BBQ and our bus (1994 RTS 8661) did not sound very good at all.
Good hearing that Wayne. I too eat at BBQ; there are several around town.
By the way, will you be in Timonium Sunday? That will be the scene of a huge transit expo. I'm told, vintage buses, flea market tables, the works. I'll be driving down Sunday with friends.
And speaking of cars, there are lots of cars today that interest me, however my favorite from the last few years is/was the late Caprice.
By 1996 it was "THE" car for police fleets. (another interest of mine). Just when GM had it right, they dropped it.
Joe
Joe -
You're right - The Caprice had become a really good car, especially the awesome Impala SS or really any Caprice with the LT1 engine. I do like some GM cars, but 5 years ago I bought a Honda Accord and I'm totally sold on Honda/Acuras.
I would like to get to the expo, but I have a busy weekend and hopefully I can wiggle out of a few things. If I can maybe I could meet you all.
Wayne
For the future, and for the benefit of the rest of us Bus/SubTalkers, I ask two favors:
1. When changing the subject of a thread, please edit the "Subject" field to indicate the change. Maybe I'm missing something here, but Timonium and Caprice vs. Acura seem to have nothing to do with "Bronx Bus Lines."
2. If a posting is intended for only one person, please communicate by e-mail directly with that person instead of posting here. As a rule, if it's here for everybody to see, it's here for everybody to read.
Thanks! :-)
I don't think that that post, even though it was directed only at Joe, was not something the author did not wish to communicate with all of BusTalk.
What really irks me is when people post messages asking a specific person a question, STARTING OUT A THREAD THAT WAY!!!
Mentioning FP, seeing from my Bustalk handle, I grew up with the B53 out of FP. During the rush hours back in the 70's, they would always use the oldest buses from around the city.
Obviously, you'd never seen a bus from Staten Island at that point. Until 1993, the TA sent all of their older buses out to Staten Island to die. In fact, if you go to the Bus Festival and read the placards, the majority of them say "...served its last days out of Castleton Depot on Staten Island."
-Hank
To dig back a little earlier like the arly and mid 50's the Concourse routes were completely Mack for several years, the only Bronx routes I remember (routes that I used anyway) to be so equipped. Itwas aCentral Bronx division route then, believe it was later called Coliseum. Kingsbridge had a limited number of Macks but I don't remember any on West Farms routes.
Having gone to school at l68 and Nelson and watching busses go by my memories of the Highbridge line are that it was first route 50 and later changed to 49 for the rest of its existence, or at least for my days in Highbridge.. until l965.
If you didn't know, there's a Sub/BusTalk chat going on NOW at #metrocard on irc.cjb.net:6667. You can also access it on the WEB at chat.cjb.net/metrocard
chat.cjb.net/metrocard
When I was a kid I lived on 50th St. between 14th & 15th Ave. along the Route of the B ll in Brooklyn. I remember some kids who lived dangerously. They would hop a free ride on the exterior of the bus, standing on the rear bumper and holding on to opening of the oil fill tank. They were only able to do this on the Macks and not the old look GMCs. Occassionaly, the driver would get out and chase them off, but as soon as he got back in the bus, they would hop back on again.
I remember this being done on the fishbowls as well. This can be seen I think in the movie "A Bronx Tale" where two kids are hanging on the back of the bus.