This was a shock to see today but 4533 on Q32?! It still had WS Stickers though. Are there any plans to give 4500s to HP when Artics arrive? I know 7500s are arriving there and 8200s will soon go to WS.
7536 was on Q32 Sunday.
Q46#8357Gary
Hudson Pier Depot has received not only the 75xx Midwest rebuilds but also the TMC's from 1987-88 #4836 is now at Hudson along with 4019 and 4122. I was shocked to see 4533 on the M14 on Sunday evening and most of the Westside equipment that was transferred still have those depot stickers on them, except for 7544 which has a Hudson Sticker and white wheels.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Some weeks ago we posted about the Vegas Roadchamp Flx Metro. Nothing more has been said. However, I did get mine and it was worth it. Hope all you other collectors did likewise.
Joe C.
HOW CAN I OBTAIN ONE OF THESE FLX'S, I NEED THIS BUS TO FINISH OF MY COLLECTION, I HAVE ALL BUT THE CAT (VEGAS) and METRO-DADE Bus!!!
Trevor
I take it from your "all-caps" message that you are plenty excited about this. Relax. The CAT bus is available from CAT directly. They are $10 plus shipping. Give them a call. If you don't have luck reaching them, let me know. I should have the details around somewhere.
The Dade County bus was still available recently at Toys R not Us and toy shows.
Joe C.
CITIZENS AREA TRANSIT POB 1480 Las Vegas Nv 89125-1480(CAT)
I may have an extra Metro Dade Road Champs bus -- not sure at the moment as I am in San Diego using a friend's computer.
Drop me an e-mail and I will let you know when I get home to Tustin (90 miles north of San Diego). I know I have about ten extra RC Flxibles in the desk drawer, but not sure which ones!! If I have a Miami one, I'd be glad to hold it for you.
The CAT unit doesn't come in a fancy package or box as all the others have -- just a plain white box.
Yesterday while i was watching Ch.2 News at 5pm & they were talking about 60 Foot Articulated Buses that running on M79 are unsafe for Pedestrian. Some people says they don't belong on M79 & other says they belong there. When i was on M79 with my father who work on M79 an B/O & i seen no problem from Riverside Dr to East End Av expect at W. 81th St because the trucks or cars double park near 81th St & Amsterdam Av. So check out this nydailynews that i found today 60-Foot Buses Pedestrian Hazard
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Artics DON'T belong on 79 Street. They are big, slower, and cause much more traffic. They need to be on the M15 if anywhere at all!!!
While I have no experience driving such a bus, I do know that two campus routes of the Champaign-Urbana [IL] Mass Transit District, the 21 Quad and the 26 Pack, run artics, each with headways of five minutes for most of the day, each with many turns. The 21 runs for a few blocks on a side street no wider than 81st Street (although without the double parking problem). And the buses here date from 1981 (IIRC) and are falling apart. I know of no problems here of buses jumping the curb without the driver being aware.
Of course, pedestrians should remain aware of their surroundings as well. If a truck were veering onto the sidewalk, you'd jump back. Why wouldn't you do the same for a bus?
The Daily News article points out that when you have fewer buses you have less bunching, but on the other hand customers have longer waits. Its a real toss up.
For example, on one of my lines, the m7, you have 6 minute headways till almost 9 pm on Saturday. Yet on weekday's its 10 minutes after 6 pm. On Saturdays I have bus bunching all day while on weekdays it ends after 6 when the headway is increased.
That's a bunch of bull. I posted something here a while back about a flier I saw on the M104 against these buses. Among other things, it mentioned that the weight was 'concentrated in the rear, which makes them more prone to fishtailing'
Manhattan routes are an advantage for the artics, since the majority of the routes are straight lines, no twists or turns among them; save for the ends where the buses turn around. An they're no more a danger than a semi-trailer, which is even LONGER!
Name a single (in-service, museum buses don't count!) bus the TA owns where the weight is NOT concentrated in the rear, and I'll eat a soda can!
-Hank
Not to start a war of the boroughs or anything, but let's face it: Manhattanites are "pampered pets". They will damn you for everything you do or don't do. I'm surprised these a--holes even know what a bus is, let alone ride one!
These are the same nit-wits that complain if all the new equipment went elsewhere. Oh pity them, they need to wait one additional minute!
Spoiled rotten! They should be stuck someplace where an average wait is 15-30 minutes in rush periods, 30-60 off peak; no service on weekends & holidays. I had a friend visit from Richmond, Va recently.
When he saw the amount of service in my section of the Bronx (subway, city bus & private bus), he was dumbfounded.
Joe Caronetti
I agree. At night trains run every 20 minutes and some Manhattan bus lines run every 60 minutes. When I tell them it is 20 minutes they start cussing up a storm. I remind them of their luck- NJT does not run all night and some NJT (or NJT contract) bus lines run only during rush hours.
Nobody wants to wait anymore-- even when there is another train 1 station away they still hold doors and gripe. Even if there is asnother bus one block away they still try to squeeze on the first bus or cuss if it leaves them behind. Wlecome to New York!
Not true about NJT. I live in NJ and I have 2 buses (Route 156, 159) that run 24 hours and there is about 4 other lines that do. NJT is smart, they only run the 24 hour buses were its really needed.
Trevor
>>>...I have 2 buses (Route 156, 159) that run 24 hours...<<<
I would hardly call the 156 a 24 hour route its last inbound departure from Lincoln Park is @8:52 PM the next one isn't 'til 7:01 AM on weekdays. 10+ hour headway.
Peace,
Andee
Not Anymore, Effective January 29th, 2000, the 156 last outbound Bus from the PA is at 3am and picks up again at 5am! (I ride that bus quite frequently too when I hang in the city past midnight and I miss that 2:40am #159)
Trevor Logan
Boy, I get off the line and the complaints start rolling in! :>)
Here are the simple facts. Articulated service on short routes (i.e., M79) is a new concept. Driver training for the artics is pretty skimpy. (This is standard TA training procedure.) It's quite possible that drivers are taking longer to "get the feel" of driving the bus. However, this does not mean that drivers are not driving responsibly. The newspaper article mentions the rear wheels of buses going over the curb while turning. This happens occassionally with all buses and the artics should not be singled out. Also, when many New Yorkers are waiting to cross the street, they usually stand in the street, not on the curb. This is foolhardy behavior and curiously unique to New York City.
Artics also pose unique scheduling problems. The scheduling department is working on them but progress is slow because the guidelines may not apply. In a sense, the M79 is a test case and its customers aren't too thrilled with that.
In summation, the artics are fine buses and should be employed on any line with a high ridership.
Ever since artics have been on 79th, traffic has gotten worse and it takes twice as long to make stops. DOWN WITH THE ARTICS ON CROSSTOWN ROUTES!!!
The fact of the matter is that one driver is able to carry more people than in a standard bus. No matter what the TA says in public, it's all about budgets and employee productivity. And THAT'S the bottom line!
Ride-On's newest arrivals are pains in the you know what. Where did buses like 3101 (i think) and 5045 come from. The first has NO destanation signs, just a piece of cardboard with the destanation sign and some odd door in the back. The latter has no destanation sign and the back seat is torn and written all over. Where were these recieved from because they are in terrible shape.
These are ex-WMATA Buses. They have been taking on a lot of ex-material. They receieved mini-Flxible METRO-Bs from WMATA & Ex-Baltimore MTA Flxible METRO-D LNGs, pictured below:
Ex-WMATA Flxible METRO-B #5168
Ex-Baltimore MTA Flxible METRO-Ds 9401-9404 awaiting CNG conversion and repaint
Trevor Logan
Wrong ones. 3101 looks like 100 or 200, and 5045 isn't like any older buses. I knew about 5171 and that kind of bus. They are on the 92 and actually say Owned and operated by WMATA.
I haven't seen any 31XX, but have you seen the new Orion V 5700 series. I see 5704 and 5705 quite often. I know there is a Ride-On bus that's Green/White. I noticed that the 30-foot Flxible Metro still have DC license plates on them.
Wayne
Green and white run on compressed natural gas. I've seen them on the 46, 47, T2 (weekend), and other routes near Rockville and Shady Grove.
I know this may have already been mentioned hundreds of times before but...
Doesn't Baltimore MTA's livery appear to be very similar to NYC Transit's? I mean with the exception of the MTA logo of course. But even the letters MTA remind you of NY's own M.T.A.
Just my observations.
Trevor,
The numbers of the Ex-MTA (Baltimore) buses now at Ride-on is 9301-9303. They are the 3 LNG disasters bought in 1993 as a test.
Baltimore Gas & Electric paid for the refuling station at Northwest Division. Disasters was correct! None of 3 ever worked at the same time, and all you could get of a full tank of LNG was 3 hours of use. They only worked the 77 line, a short line in NW Baltimore City and County.
After 2 years of tests, the MTA gave up, stored the buses, BGE removed the fueling station, and that was the end. Finally, in 1999, MTA gave the 3 to Ride-on.
Yeah 93xx as original numbers, I was told by the Gaithersburg Garage that they will be renumbered as the 94xx series!!
Trevor
MTA numbers by year of purchase, therefore the 9300 numbers. They got 'em in 1993. What Ride-on does, I don't know.
I have been reliably informed that buses bought this year will be numbered in the 2000 series, which will require renumbering of some of the Mobility buses.
Very interesting information. Do you the reason for these buses being so problematic? I know with the NJT units NGV1-NGV5, they were trouble prone from the begining. The Cummins L-10G units were surging and would always give out. Then UPN 9 I-Team discovered that PSE&G has a poor quality CNG for use in Transportation applications. So with these two problems these buses were disasters! Then in 1995 NGV-5 was on display at Hoboken Festival and she was equipped with a prototype Detroit Diesel Series 60G engine and a restyled rear cap to resemble the new Metro D series. The other units were soon converted to Series 60G power and have been in reliable service ever since.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
The 93's were not CNG, they were LNG LIQUIFIED Natural Gas). BGE was hoping to corner the local market for fuel, so the 93's were the test beds. Since the group was only 3 buses it was not considered economical to strip them of the LNG equipment and dieselize. Thus the Xfer to Ride-on.
About a week ago a BusTalker and frequent QSC customer noted this bad stuff appearing on a couple of our buses.
I had occasion to speak to our maint. dept. and am happy to report that the graffiti was removed ... it might even be the same bus # that I saw it on while looking for liquadated MCs on my lunch hour. At the time I noted the bus # & passed it on to our cleaning dept.
In addition we are making an effort to find a product to remove/mask the scratchitti as opposed to replacing the windows.
If any of our TA friends already know of something I would appreciate a private e-mail.
Disclaimer: I don't work in the maint. dept. of this company, so this is an un-official reply.
Mr t__:^)
Saw the above bus at about 8:40 AM yesterday on the Q37 as I was westbound on the Interboro (oop Jackie Robinson) Parkway just west of Queens Blvd. #5500 had a bright orange front destination sign. Has GBL started to repair the signs or is this a new installation?
Are you sure it wasn't bus 5503? 5503 is the orange sign bus. Saw her o/s going down Queens Blvd. And are you sure you saw her along Q37 because I was in same spot around that time- never saw bus 5500. I saw 714 and 1003. The GL Roster starts at 5501 and she's at Atlantic Diesel right now for new brake pads.
Q46#8357Gary
Its Possible because my eyesight isn't good for far distances. Also I was on the part of the JRP that is going uphill and is very narrow. I had to concentrate on the car because there was another car next to me and one little slip and there is a collision at that spot. Not much room for error.
My eye caught the bus because of the orange sign. I thought it was 5500 but it could have been 550X. It was sharp and bright enough to see the Q37 designation and I seem to think that the corners of the sign were rounded, not like the seemingly square corners on other Orion V's.
f/k/a Hart Bus
I think that it would be appropriate to display the "NEXT BUS PLEASE" sign whenever the bus is so full, that it has to bypass stops where people are waiting.
I think that it would reduce the confusion for those waiting. Sometimes, a full bus stops (at a requested stop) to let someone off and the front doors don't open. This would cause a bit of either confustion or frustration, depending on who you ask. Although I think it's appropriate, it rarely happens. Why?
How often are buses really that crowded? Before the driver skips stops, he should first make sure that the bus really is full -- all the way to the back. Most passengers never bother making their way back there, so a bus can appear to be full when there's loads of space (sometimes even a seat!) in the back.
The last time I remember:
Q25 to Flushing out of Queens College. Sometimes it's that crowded.
Q88 to Queens Village from Rego Park, between 108 and 148 Sts
--basically, when I've seen it, this is during times when educational institutions with a lot of students cram onto the buses.
Since the Queensboro Br was so backed up this morning, bus 5502 was over 1 hour late and his bus should've had a next bus please sign, the people were standing in stepwell. The bus I was on, 5529 and right behind 5502 was empty-yet people still wanted to get on 5502-the 1st bus.
Q46#8357Gary
"How often are buses really that crowded?"
Probably 2 or 3 times a week on the M1/2/3/4 during the AM rush headed downtown.
Chuck
To clarify -- I certainly don't claim that buses don't get very crowded. I've been on many myself. But nearly every time that I manage to shove my way to the back of the bus, it's remarkably empty back there. (I shouldn't have to shove my way there! Passengers should move as far back as they can when they board.)
"(I shouldn't have to shove my way there! Passengers should move as far back as they can when they board.)"
But then you wouldn't get a seat, now would you?
Possibly not. But I'd rather be forced to stand on the bus than be forced to stand at the bus stop to wait for the next bus.
Many times the Operator is in such a rush to catch up or just plain inattentiveness of the part of the Operator. When I instruct my Operators to go special or dark I always will tell them several times to put up a NOT IN SERVICE so that our customers dont feel as if the Operator is just not stopping for them.
As far as the driver is concerned, the bus is at max cap when passengers are standing froward of the white line. At this point, it can flag (i.e., pass) stops. If the bus is that crowded, odds are there is a service problem and intending passengers will ignore the "Next Bus Please" sign when the bus stops to discharge passengers.
As an operator, all I can do is say to please take the next bus. If possible, I then close the doors and leave.
The trip that I scheduled to take on 3-7 has been CANCELLED and will be rescheduled on a Saturday at a later date. Sorry for any inconvenience (:(
Q46#8357Gary
I have a very curious mind, so once again, I have two more bus questions:
Hypothetically speaking, if drivers are needed on the B9, can a driver on the B63 (with enough senority) drive the B9 for that day, or that week, and maybe again when needed?
Also, can bus steering wheels(especially more recent models)telescope, or do they just tilt?
B63Mike
they can telescope. You have to push the lever thingy down real hard, and if you want it to telescope downward, gotta push real hard.
I noticed that the seats on the 97-98 Novas at Hudson vary. Some are the Recaro's, some the BE-GE's, and some the Isrihaugen's (found on the older TMC's and GMC's). Why did they do 3 types of seats? And they're pretty random, one bus is a Recaro, next is a BE-GE, next an Isri. Why'd they do this? I noticed most of the 96XX's at Hudson have the Isri's though.
In terms of height adjustment, lumbar support, and seat tilt, which seat (Rec, BE, or Isri) is the best in those catergories?
For height: Isri
Lumbar: Recaro
Seat Tilt: BE-GE.
What is the purpose of this route???
B46M Limited
I'm not 100% sure on the reason but I believe this route was started due to the community's request of the lack of local bus service in that vicinity of Linden Blvd. Perhaps someone else could add to this.
Yes, the Q9A does serve a stretch of Linden Blvd. not otherwise served (by local routes). However, it's one bus on a 60-minute headway, it runs middays only, and it does not serve any subway directly - mighty useless, no?
More than likely, its sole function is to prevent Jamaica Buses or NYCT from serving the same territory (in other words, a city-funded franchise-holder).
Does anyone need the exact routing
I could use it, thanks.
Jamaica Bus Terminal via Merrick Blvd,Linden Blvd,Lincoln St to Rockaway Blvd
Turnaround via Rockaway blv,,134 st,120 Av,Rockaway Blvd to Stand on Lincoln St
Return via Lincoln St,Linden Blvd Merrick Blvd,168 St,89 Av,Merrick Blvd to Terminal
Steve
thanks
Yesterday QSC sent 5 TMC RTC (282, 283, 284, 286, & 287) mgf in 1994 to Jamaica Bus ... after a little TLC to get them in tip top shape before the transfer. We wish them very good luck.
As of now it appears there will be two more batches of coaches from our fleet to make their way to members of the Cooper family, but I won't mention the details because they are subject to change before they actually happen.
BTW, has anyone seen the first seven QSC coaches now in Green stripes?
We've not heard a word one way or the other from our childern and hope they are doing well.
Disclaimer: I'm not a official spokesman of QSC or nycDOT.
Mr t__:^)
The coaches that were sent to GBL are not in service as of yet(275-281). I think they're still need to be redone- may still be in QS Scheme-not too sure. I do know that 5501 is back at GBL but not in service as she awaits a reinspection by the DOT for new brake pads. I don't think there's a #5500 Orion, I'll ask my sources on Monday. I do not work for DOT or MTA- I'm just a bus buff.
Q46#8357Gary
What about 285 is she going to JBL too?
Q46#8357Gary
Strictly speaking, isn't it NYCDOT who "adds buses to" the private carriers' fleets (whether by buying new or reassigning from one company to another)?
I left home for a walk to the train station. I saw the B24 bus coming up the street, so I ran to thge nearest bus stop to catch that bus. Anyway, as I was about to insert my MetroCard into the farebox, I see this rat looking up at me, in some kind of defensive position. I jumped back a little bit. When I saw that it was fake, I got a laugh, and inserted my card. When I sat down, I started looking at the farebox to see other people get taken by suprise due to a small plastic rat on the farebox! There's something you don't see every day!
I'm assuming the driver put it there?
Yup, the driver put it there as a joke.
69 images had been added on NYCTransiTrans Bus Page & check out my NYCTransiTrans's Page. Enjoy it!! I want to let you know that i change my URL from www.angelfire.com to www.geocities.com.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Transitalk has a new URL, please make note of it.
http://www.transitalk.outride.com
Thank you and have a blessed day!
Trevor
Ride-On's newest arrivals are pains in the you know what. Where did buses like 3099 (i saw the number clearly this time!) and 5045 come from. The first has NO destanation signs, just a piece of cardboard with the destanation sign and some odd door in the back. The latter has no destanation sign and the back seat is torn and written all over. Where were these recieved from because they are in terrible shape.
Th only way to find out where they came from would be to get the VIN-number from inside the bus, unless someone knows th heritage already.
The what?
I only see these odditieds when I take the subway to school. The 27 NEVER has what I'm describing and the 37 has 5045 occasionally. I've seen buses like 3099 on the 6 and 36 (which I never take).
It just hit me, these buses are probably either the Metrotrans Classic Model or El Dorado Areotech Cutaways operated by ATE/Ryder. I remember 5040-5049 being El Dorado Aerotech buses. Yes the Metrotrans Classic models are in the 100 and 200 series, but it would not surprise me if these are new ones.
Trevor Logan
And why does Ride-On operate them? They are in terrible conditon!
It's a contract. If you look at all of the Ride-On routes using cutaway buses, on all of those buses in the skirt panels it'll state Operated by ATE/Ryder. I hate the service they provide, they are not as pleasant as the Ride-On operators, and the buses just are a disgrace. Yes, the buses are S#!TY, they really need to be in the garbage and Ride-On just needs to maybe invest in some Orion IIs like the WMATA did and do the service themselves.
Trevor Logan
I think I did notice such a marking on 132. 130 is the only decent one from the outside (I haven't been on it). It has the route number in the back which I do like. 5044 might be the best among 5040-5049. I know someone who drives for Ride-On and he always gets them to change his assignment when he gets these rented buses.
Does anyone know the Exact end of line Turn around routing ,,for the B103 Downtown Brooklyn
I do know the Revenue Routing to and from Adams Street and Tillary
Thanks
Steve
I've noticed that some floaters (sub. drivers) are in the 8XXX (badge #) series. Why would drivers with this much seniority choose to be a floater? To take a break I guess?
You're on the right track.
Sometimes drivers just like the idea of doing something different every day, they don't want to deal with the same route, passengers, or schedule on a daily basis.
Plus, if it's anything like our "extra board" out here, it's the place you can make some overtime.
Floaters are the one that works piece of work RDO. You might be thinking of the Extra List. These are the Driver that don't know what they are work from Day to Day. Floater have set peices of work every week. They all ways have weekday RDO's. Floater also can work on one or more line during the week, but I have never seen one with more then three different line in it.
Out Robert
Oh, okay -- thought there might have been different terminology from coast to coast! Thanks or the explanation.
Our extra board sits around the yard and does fill in work for sick calls, bus breakdowns, or is assigned a day's work for for someone off on a vacation day, etc. Or they can bid a whole week's worth of work if someone is off on vacation ("hold down").
Then we have "trippers" which are bid as added overtime on top of a regular day's work (if time allows) and one keeps a tripper for an entire "bid" ("pick" in NY).
And if someone is on RDO, they can work "VCB" (Voluntary Call Back) lists; they sign up to "volunteer" to cover runs on their days off, whether it be weekend or weekday, as long as it's their regular off days. (Something I never do, I treasure my time away from driving the bus!)
Yeah, I meant extra's. Sorry.
How many of you folks remember the old Pioneer Bus Corp. located on Strickland Ave. in the Mill Basin section of Brooklyn? They actually started Brooklyn to Manhattan express service before being taken over by Command. They also operated a local transit line between the Kings Highway Brighton station and Mill Basin as well as Racetrack service to Aqueduct, Meadowlands & Yonkers.
I remember that they ran line runs from Brooklyn College to different neighborhhods in Brooklyn where there was no direct TA service, and charged the same fare as the TA. They had some of the oldest collections of buses at that time. Although their standard was the old dark green and white school buses, they had many of them with high back red cushioned coach seats, as well as an assortment of old 1940s vintage White Motor coaches, Macks, and old GMC transits, none of which were the same colors. I used to ride one of these lines from Brooklyn College to 47th St. & 14th Ave. in Boro Park. It was very convenient because at that time the B 11 terminated at 18th Ave. and it saved me having to transfer to the B 8 and walk 3 very long blocks.
I remember the yard was on the north side of Strickland Ave., west of Mill Road (?). They were between Coppola Construction ( client of the CPA firm I worked for ) and the El Caribe catering hall and down the block from Red's, a large toy store. Haven't been back there in 15 years.
hey sol--- tell me if i am imagining this--- i went to brooklyn college from 1960 - 1964--- pioneer had buses that would be parked across from midwood on bedford avenue--- i would take the bus that went down on ocean avenue toward sheepshead bay--- at least one time, they were using a bus that must have been designed for midgets--- you couldn't stand up in the bus--- there was an old geezer driving the bus--- i remember him saying that this bus pretty much drove itself---
did pioneer have a beaver tail as part of their logo, or did this driver have a beaver tail hanging in the front---
if i remember correctly, pioneer had a strike and they were either taken over by command, or they went out of business and command took them over...
i'll never forget that small bus--
Hey Paul,
I went to Brooklyn College from 1958 to 1962. The Pioneer Bus that I took parked on the same side of the street as Midwood High School because it was heading north to make a left turn on Glenwood Road. Your bus was going in the opposite direction, so he parked on the southbound side of Bedford Ave. I remember the driver you are talking about very well. They called him Popeye and the beaver tail was his own good luck charm. It had nothing to do with the company. He was only on my route twice that I can remember. The bus he drove was one of those low headroom school buses that were popular in N.J.at the time.
Pioneer did have a long strike that finally put them out of business.
At that time they were owned by Ed Vallone and the Seiken brothers, Jerry & Myron. They were then purchased by Liberty Lines when they started the Brooklyn to Manhattan Express. Their equipment consisted of old Flxible suburbans (stick shift) as well as GMC 4104s that were sent down from the Liberty fleet. They later acquired some GMC automatic fishbowls with lowback seats as well. Only 2 buses remained from the original Pioneer fleet, and these were 2 stick shift
GMC SD 5302s which were 53 passenger 1 notch recliners (highback) that used to operate on the Aqeduct Race Track line. It was after a 2nd strike against the new Liberty management that Command finally took over the operation and moved to company from Mill Basin to the present day location on Wortman Ave.
KING SOLOMON
your highness--- your remembering of popeye really blows my mind--- especially your confirming the beaver tail cap--- if i remember correctly he would really spin around the turns on campus road heading to ocean avenue--- he drove a bit like a lunatic, and seemed to enjoy himself--- i don't think i have ever been in a bus with such a low ceiling before or after that--- it was also a rather small size bus also---
it brings back a whole era of bus riding--- i think i have spent a good hunk of my life waiting for the b-49 ocean avenue bus--- i took the 49 going to madison and brooklyn college for 7 years-- i remember a driver on that line, who was one of the few afro-american drivers at the time--- he was kind of a chunky middle age man, who was really mean--- we didn't mess with this guy--- he would really snap at you if you gave him a bill to change--- those drivers then had some time of it driving, making change and keeping their mcgill coin changers loaded---
i was really in love with the old johnson coffee grinder fare boxes--- i loved the sound of the machine working--- i liked to sit behind the driver and watch the numbers on the cash counter change---
Hey Paul,
I think I only rode the B 49 route twice in my life, so I would not remember any specific drivers.
Talking about fare boxes, I also remember the fare box that preceeded the Johnson coffee grinder. One in which the driver had to manually crank the coins through the machine instead of it going automaticly.
Can you imagine today's drivers having to do that in addition to making change and putting up with all the crazies, both on the bus and on the road.
By the way, make sure you check your e-mail tonight.
KING SOLOMON
hey sol--- i think i mentioned to you that i have one of the manual johnson fare boxes here--- it is one of my treasures--- it still works---- paul
Why is it called a Coffee Grinder farebox?
i really should put a different subject heading on this--- but it is very cool to see 8 pioneer bus corp posts back to back--
let's see if i can explain--- coins that were put in would first hit a bell, and then go down a little shoot to land on a flat surface where the driver could count them--- i was just wondering how a driver could count $1.50, when i realized that the fare might have been 5 or 10 cents--- then he had a little lever, that opened the flat surface--- it was like a trap door hinged on the ends--- in the buses i road as a kid, the boxes operated electrically--- you could see the end of a round cylindrical drum rotating --- it made a click click kind of sound--- coins would be counted and then get spit out into a little compartment at the bottom where the driver could reach in and grab a handleful of coins and put them into his changer--- i think it was this revolving drum that gave it the name of coffee grinder, as well as the coins coming out into the compartment like ground coffee would in a coffee grinder--- the hand operated model i have doesn't have a visible revolving drum--- it has a crank that you turn to power it---
i seem to remember that some of the 5th ave coach buses in the city had the coins come out into a built in coin changer--- drivers would usually not very happy when you put pennies into the box
Fareboxes -
What was described was the Johnson Farebox type D. The boxes count coins/tokens by size. There's a revolving plate that has tabs to catch the coins, each tab is set to a size to hold that coin only. The gearing counts the coins and can be set to count singly or mulitple (i.e. pennies and tokens count "1", nickels count "5", dimes "10". If the box has a seperate counter for quarters, they count "1", if not, they count on the cash counter as "25". Originally, the boxes did not accept quarters, many companies using them modified them with new counters, separators and traps.
The motorized boxes were introduced about 1936 with the advent of the PCC car and modern motor coaches. All that was done was to add a motor in a new compartment on the bottom of the box. The motor was equipped with a geat timer on the motor shaft. The box ran for about 40 seconds, and stopped. The operator would press the dump lever again until all the coins were counted and ejected into the chute for retreval.
The fareboxes with the built-in coin changer was the Grant Money Meter. These boxes used a system similar to the Johnson boxes, but added a different tone to each coin. I remember them in the 1960's on the WV&M buses (Arlington, VA) The counting plate was in the side of the box facing the operator, and as it revolved, the box would bing and boop as each coin/token was counted. As the coin left the counting plate, it was deposited in a changer that was built into the farebox. The operator could either make change from that or from his own changer.
All these types of fareboxes were either replaced with vault boxes in the 1950's, or were replaced when operators stopped making change due to crime. (Change funds were a easy picking for robbers. Many systems dropped making change on transit vehicles after an operator was shot and killed for his change fund.)
hey dan--- your explanation of a flat plate revolving conflicted with my imagined cylindrical can revolving--- the box i have is indeed a type D box, whose holes on top do not allow quarters--- i have had this box at least 20 years, and in that tim have never seen the insides--- i just put the box in the sunlight, and hoped to see down the throat of it--- then i noticed a steel shaft running across the body of the box--- i slid it out and yanked at the front plate and the whole counting head came out--- it only took me 20 years and your post to motivate that exploration--- it has a nice smell of gear grease--- i am very impressed that this mechanism still works--- goes to prove something about how they built things in the old days---
dan--- how do you know so much about fareboxes?--- and many thanks for your post--- i am really intrigued with how easy it was to get out,and hope to try to figure it out--- the flat plate is angled to the horizontal.......
Your talking about fare boxes brought back some memories...
The city used the Johnson model "D" (these were very prominent on the TDH 4510s) These boxes did not accept quarters. I remember drivers telling passengers to "put the quarter on the tray" so they could make the change.
The majority of drivers had Johnson coin changers and not McGill. In fact I remember at least two drivers at Triboro who had neither but a transparent changer!
Many had a dog collar chain attached to the changers. An old driver told me that they did that in order to attached the changer to the model Ds (the chain was draped around the glass housing)
When the new looks arrived, the city switched to the Johnson K-25 fare boxes. The drivers still made change and so these boxes returned coins to the driver via a coin return drawer (this is how the Johnson brochure described it). The drawer could be pushed in for "security". These boxes accepted all coins and tokens except the half dollar and silver dollars.
When the city went to exact fare, Keene, formerly Johnson, supplied the vault pedestals. The fare box was still the K-25.
Then came the vacumn pedestals and the box was still the K-25. This is what the Museum in Brooklyn sells or sold at one time.
These were replaced by the General Farebox stainless steels found on the RTS with the vacumn bases. Then they went to the new Cubic boxes on the same vacumn pedestals.
At Green Bus Lines and Triboro, in the mid 1960s, the majority of buses had Grant fare boxes. These were great! GBL drivers would put the zone checks (on the Q60) in the plastic partition that covered the top of the changers. When the exact fares came in, Triboro had a homemade vault attached to the fare boxes. I was never able to figure out how they got the money out. Triboro drivers hated pennies! and they did not accept tokens.
(I remember one incident on the Q-38. The Grant was jammed with coins. The driver did not let anyone pay fares. At Woodhaven and Queens a Triboro maintenance truck was waiting. The mechanic got on, turned the fare box to one side and lifted it up. He threw it on the back of the pick up and took another Grant. He twisted it on to the base and the bus drove off! The Grants had a bayonet mount).
BTW, the electric cord for the Grants came up through the tubular pedestal and was attached by suction at the bottom of the fare box.
Presently, in my collection I have
a) Johnson model D... configured like the TA with money changer and tray.
b) Johnson K-25 with vacumn pedestal. This is an ex-MaBSTOA box from the 146 St. (OFS) depot. With seals and trip report.
c) Grant with money changer, under restoration
All three work!
Hey Paul,
Its good to see all the talk being generated by Pioneer Bus and the old Fare boxes. It really brings back old memories.
I received the re-print you sent me on Brooklyn TA bus operations. It's really great. It is the most thorough and scholarly work that I have neen on the subject. It will take some time to digest.
Did you ever receive the e-mail that I sent you Saturday night on Greyhound and Peter Pan buses ? I never received an answer from you. I am wondering whether it ever went through.
THANKS AGAIN
KING SOLOMON
Actually, Command is now on Flatlands Avenue near the Queens border.
yo pigs--- mentioning a school bus to you is almost as dangerous as mentioning niagara falls to me---
you should have seen the bus that pioneer had that i was talking about with king solomon
Red's is still in the neighborhood........
B46M Limited
It's Mill Avenue. And I haven't been there for -5 years. I don't remember though if the construction company is called Coppola. There is a shit^H^H^H^Hschool bus lot on what I believe was the site. Brighton Bus Service.
Actually Coppola operated several companies under different names. He was in the heavy construction business. JM Coppola, Arcus Concrete, Cobra Pile Driving to name a few. He saved several of the first trucks his dad used when starting the business. IIRC one the trucks was on the east side of the building and another one was on the second story roof.
Is the El Caribe still there as a catering hall? I remember going there on several Friday nights and trying (unsuccessfully) to meet girls.
F/K/A Hart Bus
if i remember, one of the trucks was a real old time mack truck---- is that company still there?--- i ought to take a ride over to mill basin and answer my own question--
El Caribe is still there. There's also a pool and health club.
Yesterday I was on 23rd St. in Manhattan. I saw a NYCT RTS coming towards me. It struck me that there was something sort of odd about the bus. As it got closer it noticed there were NO numbers on the bus and the sign said NOT IN SERVICE, but there were passengers in it. Then as it passed I noticed a complete film crew in the back filming. So obviously, this bus was being used to for a film but I don't think it was a regular revenue bus.
This was probably Bus #1648, which sometimes poses as bus #PA-4199 with a Castleton Sticker on it. Pictured Below
Trevor
This could have been it except there were no numbers on the front, side or back
ok cool, but that pic was taken about 5-6 months ago, so the bus may have had it's numbers removed.
Trevor
Sounds like the Movie Cars Inc. bus that's usually stored at the Homeport in Stapleton. They're filming Third Watch in the vicinity of 23rd and Park Ave South (as per Jodi), and Friday they were filming near Canal St ('Engine 57' was present).
-Hank
They just stopped near my house to do some shooting at the High School near me, 87th and West End Avenue.
Clayton Parker
TransiTALK Photographer
clayton@hlcomm.dhs.org
I saw a 1982 RTS (ex-NYCT) this afternoon parked outside Penn Station. It was wrapped in a police recruitment ad and had "911" in the run-number box.
Anybody know which bus that was (or might have been)?
The bus u saw was 1712.
Is this the same NYC-PD RTS I saw parked by the subway ramp at Shea for Game 4 (Mets-Atlanta) playoff in October???
On Nova's RTS brochure, on either page 2 or 3, they show a close-up picture of the MTA's 8634. Do they realize they took a picture of a TMC?
And I meant the NYC's MTA 8634.
That brochure's been around for awhile. I remember TMC passing it out at a display they had at a bus industry convention. When NovaBus bought the RTS production from TMC, they probably even got all the advertising materials! So, it would only be logical that they update things and put NOVA on them. Basically, it is the sae product.
You have the older book, the have a brand new book out now! Call or e-mail NovaBUS for the new one!!!! Also I recieved a CD Rom from them with the NovaBUS Specs for the LFS and the RTS on it! (ASK FOR IT)
Trevor
I have the CD, it came when I asked for the brochure about a few months ago.
But the newest brochure does't have #8643 is it!!! Not TA buses priemer in the the new brochure.
Trevor
Try this link
http://www.novabus.com/
Of Course that too! But If you'd want it in your file, have them send it to ya, plus it comes in this hot to death folder!!!! A MUST HAVE FOR BUS BUFFS!
Trevor
Thanks for the tip, I'll do that!
There was a thread a while back about movable bridges in NYC. Well, NYCDOT has put together some pages on all the currently operating movable bridges operated by the city. They look ok, and they lack some info, and there are numerous grammatical and spelling errors, but it's an interesting section.
http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/dot/html/bridges/index.html
-Hank
Gary and other Red Bird lovers should enjoy the ride on a few of our buses. As I went to lunch I saw the adv. on 324 (curb side) and 439 (street side) ... It's a Red Bird (that's a group of IRT subway cars from the late 50s & 60s for you non-subway buffs) with unique side destination signs. It makes the bus signed for either local or express depending on which side of the bus it's on and you have to look hard to appreciate what they're selling ... that's the best part.
BTW, no triva test associate with this, just thought I'ld give you shutter bugs something to look out for ... enjoy.
P.S. Went for a hot dog on Woodhaven Blvd. but didn't see anything of interest in the Command, Green & TA coaches that went by ... was nice to just stand outside in the sunshine on a NYC Spring day.
Mr t__:^)
324 and 439 have mini-wraps to them? Also where were you on Woodhaven Blvd? Near Queens Blvd? Usually in tht spot around 815-830am but was there around 1030 on 659-Q60. Will keep my eyes open for them. 659 was formely Command 362. It's Spring Break for me may go pic taking during the week since weather is so nice:)
Q46#8357Gary
[324 and 439 have mini-wraps to them?]
No, just the standard poster.
[Also where were you on Woodhaven Blvd? Near Queens Blvd?]
At St. John's cemetery just before Metropolitian. There's a hot dog guy who's been there for years in his old blue truck. Monday's he's off so we did itialian sausage. Sometimes you meet folks from the Jamaica subway yard there.
Mr t__:^)
I noticed that over at Subtalk they have a section which mentions which subway car types are assigned to what line.
Is there a section or website that serves this function for NYC City Busses?
The reason I ask is that I noticed that a few months ago I saw CNG Low Floor Busses running on the 4th Avenue route in Bay Ridge Brooklyn. I have gone back a few weeks ago and did not notice one Low Floor for the entire evening I was there. Have they switched bus assignments recently?
Thanks.
Really the only buses at the TA that receive specific route assignments are the Express Buses and the Artics. Everything else is just kinda random.
Trevor Logan
Except for the CNGs. All CNG buses come out of Jackie Gleason Depot on 5th Ave in Brooklyn.
There is no 4Av route. The bus routes are on 3 and 5Avs (B37 and B63 respectively). Both of these routes operate out of JG and JG operates the CNG low floors..........
B46M Limited
I am looking for a list of all Mack buses, their serial numbers & dates that ran in N.Y.C. Please e-mail me.
Thank you.
I may be wrong, but I think they are on the web at the Ohio Museum of Transportation's site.
That's http://www.omot.org/
Steve, nope, we don't have Mack buses up on OMOT's site. You might be thinking of the Beaver Coach listings we have up.
RDChilds
Found a website on the FTA Busway project http://brt.volpe.dot.gov/
-Hank
I remember when Pioneer was first awarded the Franchise for the line from the Kings Highway Brighton station to Mill Basin, they were only allowed to pick up on half of their line because the TA in their opposition claimed that they were in direct competition with their Flatbush-Avenue R Route. It was very difficult getting anything through the Franchise Bureau in the days of Morris Tarshis
KING SOLOMON
When was the B100 first established? What about the B3, B78 and B41 Veterans (Island) Avenue branch?
I believe it was somewhere around 1963, one year after I graduated from Brooklyn College. The other 3 Routes I am not familiar with.
KING SOLOMON
The B-100 was established around 1959/1960. The TA tried to extend the B-2 then from Flatbush Ave to Mill Basin then but Pioneer was operating the route then without a franchise applied for the franchise and got it claimming they served the area even before the TA was interested.
according to the motor coach age on brooklyn bus
b3--- 8/10/31 preceded by kings coach co in 1922--
b78 mill basin---11/20/61
extended to flatbush ave from mill ave on 12/28/70
b41 3/4/51 began as a bus route
Scene: Greenpoint Avenue & 47 Street
Time: 06 March 2000 4:24 pm
I stand at the corner across Greenpoint Avenue from the bus stop, looking in the direction Williamsburg-bound B24 buses come from (Buildings block sunlight) I was expecting a 4-minute wait (The schedule on the Guide-A-Ride box at that bus stop said the next bus should arrive at 4:28). Instead, I receive a 40-MINUTE WAIT!!! I slowly walked over to 41st Street to see if there were any buses over the hill, whose top is around 42 Street. I also went there to see if there were any Q39 buses coming (I was going to a place where the two routes ran together). At 5:07, a B24 bus arrives, 43 minutes after I started waiting! I saw no other Williamsburg-bound B24 buses while I was waiting. I saw 2 Greenpoint-bound buses, but none going the other way. As I boarded bus #5068, I said to myself, "40 minutes late, this shouldn't be." I would have walked to where I was going if I knew the wait was to be longer than 10 minutes, but if the wait's expected to be at 5 minutes or less, I wait for the bus.
If the B30 was still running, I probably would have got on a bus, and would have been where I wanted to go in under 5 minutes.
BRING BACK THE B30! FOR GOODNESS SAKES, BRING IT BACK!!!
Kosciusko Bridge traffic caused your long wait!
Q46#8357Gary
The Kosciusko Bridge comes after Greenpoint Avenue when going towards Williamsburg. How could it cause the delay?
You seem to forget something. If there is wall to wall traffic on the Kosciusko Bridge, the bus will be late for the entire trip! And it may get to the end point so late it will leave late again. And you have lots of traffic on Meeker Ave. approaching the bridge. Same goes for the Queens side. A bus may be so late in arriving at West St. or Kent Ave., in order to get back on time a bus may be dispatched to run empty along Franklin St. between the 2 end points since as the crow flies, both end points are only a couple of miles apart. Then comes lunch. If a driver is at Kent Ave, at a certain time and is supposed to be at West St at time for lunch, he will not and is not expected to surrender his lunch period. Same goes for his quitting time. A FP driver told me that during weekdays the B24 has an 18 minute layover at each end. Guess what? Those 18 minutes are usually soaked up with a late arrival due to traffic conditions. Double parked delivery trucks, double parked vehicles at auto/truck repair shops near the Greenpoint Ave. Bridge. Speaking of which, that is a drawbridge. More delays.
I hate to tell you this but that is not likely. See around the same time the B5 and 50 became the 82 they eliminated the B30 the ta claimed it had insufficient ridership,but there were some people that I went to high School with me at midwood H.S that would travel that length to get to school somehow and were very dependent on it. But when a bus starts running every 20-30 minutes (ex: 18,20,23,24) or if there are hours uring the day the bus does not run much like the b30 the ta will look for an excuse to not run the service to save money. Look I live in canarsie and when had to go to kings plaza I used the B2,9,41,46,and even the Q35 rather than the B78 which was closer why? better service. Some times you wonder if it was deliberatly done not to provide additional service. The ta knows this is a business they are in-if you do not provide the service to convince people to wait for a bus, people find other modes of transit, thus less riders and a excusss to cut off a route. it is like that movie "Field of Dreams" "If you build it, they will come." If you provide it and insure that servive we will wait. it is that simple. maybe one of thes private companies like green lines, command, or triboro.
What i meant to say was maybe one the private bus route like green lines command, or triboro should look into resurrecting the B30
The TA should consider bringing back the B-30 and also extend the route via Rooservelt Ave to the Woodside LIRR Station. It may bring
Long Island residents who work in the industrial section that the old B-30 served out of there cars and on to Mass Transit.
Just an idea.
Thank You
It also serves as a link between the 46 Street (Bliss Street) station on the 7 line to the UPS building at 48th Street & 56th Road. (It's a long walk from Queens Boulevard!) The B24 takes you halfway there, same with the Q39. The Q67 would leave you the closest, but sometimes people get off at 46th Street thinking it's a short walk from there. (There's a big surprise!) The B30 got the closest. I think there was a bus stop in front of the building.
What you say is true, no disputing of what you say. But the fact of the matter is the ridership was flat. The B30 ran from 5 AM till 10 AM and from 2 PM till 7 PM. Monday to Friday. What I could never figure out was thjis: it ran from morning till evening on Saturdays!
Peopole living in the area going to the subway?
The worst part was you got a piece of junk bus! The 4000s and few 3000s FP has should run on a route such as the B24.
3000s & 4000s had noting to do piece of junk buses!!! & it was traffic not buses.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Read my original post carefully! I stated that the worst part of the long wait was that he got on bus 5068. Those buses are junk! They should only run 4000s and the few 3000s they have on a route like the B24.
The new 5000 series buses are junk?
Hey R.M. i really like the LED sign & how did you do that?????
Peace Out
David Justiniano
I'll tell you as I told everyone how I made the signs, like those on another post of mine, which are in this post.
I created a QuickBasic (an old, but good BASIC language editor) program to generate the signs. A snag-up on this is that the word "GREENPOINT" is 7 pixels tall instead of the usual 8. Using this program, I made a screen capture in Windows (making in a window and pressing the Print Screen button). I transferred this to Paint, where I edited the screen captures of the correct and incorrect signs to what they really look like. Finally, to convert those .bmp files to .gif's, I used Microsoft Photo Editor. That's how I did it. :-)
There was another step to this one, though. I used a GIF animator program to make the GIF file you saw on my original post on this thread. I basically combined the two GIFs into one animated GIF.
There's more transit-related stuff from me on my web site. Click here to go there. You'll be directed to a page I call TransferPoint. From there, you can see transit-related pictures, ideas, and other strange and interesting things (Except for the "Main Street-Flushing" stop, which is strictly a Queens College thing). Click on the map (which kinda resembles a subway map) to go to the indicated part of the site. Yes, there are bus pictures! However, this site, as you'll see by this point, is more or less subway themed. Click on by.
BTW, this gif's file name is "4301.gif." Try to guess why.
Could you email about doing that design? Thanx.....
B46M Limited
Can you publish the program you use to make those?
I was on the east side today at 72nd and York. I had to go to the times square area. I was waiting for a cross town bus when an M30 pulls up RTS 9248, it was an express bus! You know 2x2 plush reclining seats. What a comfortable ride! I didn't want to get off. Too bad the bus driver was in such a grumpy mood, as I got on I said "Wow! An express bus, how did you get so lucky?" He didn't even turn his head in acknowledgement. Anyway, how often does this type of thing happen? First time I've ever seen it. If every NYC local bus was like this, it would make for a much happier ride.
Probably wasn't 9248. Express buses in that group run from 9250 to 9349.
David
Typo - it was 9284
This happen a few years back at Ulmer Park. They were sort local buses and they sent out the new 9300's on to the B36. For what I heard is when the bus get back to the depot all the seat were cut and had to replace them. Ulmer Park still runs the older Express's on some routes now a days to fill in if they are short buses. They only go on the B1, B4,B3 and the B64.
Actually, there have bee some occasions during the morning rush during 1999( maybe even now I am am not sure) these buses would serve the B6 as well. Some of these buses i have been on and some were great but there were a few that it seemed they were too dirty for express service, so UP put them on the B6 route.
I think somebody here explained a while ago that the M30 drivers also have runs on the X90 and X92, if I am correct.
I've been on express buses on the following routes:
Q32 (100's)
Q74 (100's)
B67 (1700's)
Q39 (3000's)
Also I've been on 1700 and 1800s on Q46, 3000s on Q18 and Q53, 500s on Q25-34, Q65A and Q104. I do see 3000s on Q19A, Q29, Q38, Q39 and Q47.
Q46#8357Gary
The Q53 is an express route anyway, so they'd have to be on that route.
I usually see run 12 on the Q30 by St Johns University around 3:30 P.M. with a 1700 series RTS.
I go to St John's University. I did see 1767 and 1773 there not too long ago. But my favorite buses at QV are the 8300s- especially 8357.
Q46#8357Gary
If you go back a few years like the early 1980's it was possible to see Express Fishbowls in local service on weekends in Manhattan. I remember more than a few "Batwing" 8000 series with forward facing cushioned seats. It seems to me that these buses were assigned longer routes - i.e. the M104.
I remember just before 100 St closed riding an express bus on the M86 on a Saturday night just before midnight, and then while waiting at 2nd Ave for a downtown M15 seeing at least 3 other express buses in service on the M86 pass by.
Several years back 100 Street depot express buses routinely operated on the M18 on weekends.
Wayne
Speaking of the M18, what on earth is its purpose?
Wayne was referring to the OLD M18 (current M86), whose purpose is obvious. :-)
The current M18 (Convent Avenue) was created in response to community complaints about lack of service on Convent Avenue. Back in the 1980's, a long-term sewer construction project forced the M3 (Convent branch) to be diverted to St. Nicholas, and the two branches were consolidated. Naturally, the riders diverted to St. Nicholas, too.
After the construction was finished, the folks living along Convent (but not CCNY) wanted their half of the M3's restored. Those trips were designated M18, to avoid confusion with the M3 on St. Nicholas. The one-for-one split was a dismal failure, because the former Convent riders chose to stay on St. Nicholas, where a headway of 16 minutes peak and 20 minutes midday just won't cut it. In its current form, St. Nicholas has the full level of service it needs, while the four people who both live on Convent and ride buses have something to keep them quiet.
This information is right on target. I used to live on W151st Street and would ride the M3 Convent and that used to run so much better than todays M18. The M18 is a joke! And you are right! The only reason why the M18 still exists is because it keeps the few people on Convent Avenue quiet. Good answer man!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Don't forget express buses also used to run on M101/102. The buses was 69xx.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
I don't recall ever seeing 6900's on the M101/102. I know that 100 Street depot had GM T6H-5310's, but I remember them being 4500-4505. Perhaps it was brief??? I just remember the 69XX series always being at TA depots (Fifth Ave and Staten Island depots). However, I realize I could be mistaken.
Wayne
Old 100th St Depot does have about 20 69xx & ran on M18 Now M86, M101/102 before they replace GMC-RTS #3880-#3899 in 1985 or 1986.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Yesterday, I saw #6123 on Queens Boulevard.
It wasn't running on the Q32, but it was running on the x51!
Does this happen often?
If a depot is short of express buses they will take the newest bus in the depot and assign it to an Express run
never seen that at Ulmer Park, they put the old 1700's and 1800 series on express lines. why arent these buses retired yet, and WHENEVER they do, what will they replace them with?
There have been occasions previously where a 51X will go down in the city (i.e. wont start at 34th and 3rd), console gets in touch with the OA dispatcher at penn station and gets one of the stengel Q32s to do the trip and adjust the 32s accordinagly.
Same thing with the QM15,16,17,18 or 23.one goes down they will (GBL)will pull one off the 60 in Manhattan or the 11 if it by Queens Bl and Woodhaven Bl(the would be the 10 or 37 if by Union Tpke)
It used to happen on Staten Island routes quite often in the 1980's and early 1990's. I do rememeber Stengel sending local buses on express runs also. When the 1993 Orions were new - one could spot the occasional 1993 Orion V from Stengel on the X51.
When new look buses were still the majority at TA/OA - If a local buses was used for an express run it was almost always a Grumman 870 or RTS.
Wayne
They are also the following situations:
When an express bus run is not covered due to a driver pulling sick at the last second or if a bus breaks down on an earlier trip a local bus and driver will be pulled to cover the express trip.
By the way Ulmer Park use to do it until the Grummans and RTS came on the property. My neighbor was an Ulmer Park driver at the time and used to drive the 29X on overtime. They deid not have an express bus for him so they gave him the newest air conditioned bus in the garage which then was the 9000's Flxibles.
Does anyone remember what year it was that the TA moved the bus stops from the end of the block to the beginning of the next block ? I remember this particularly along the B 11 & B 16 routes that I used to ride in the 1950s, but I think it was city wide. I do not recall the particular year it was done. If anyone could shed some light on this matter and provide the reason why it was done I would be greatful.
KING SOLOMON
As most BusTalkers should be aware, most carriers don't estabish bus stops - they only stop buses there.
In NYC, a bus stop is technically a parking regulation, and thus can be established or revoked only the City, through DOT. DOT happens to like stops at the "far" side of (i.e. after) an intersection, rather than at the "near" side (before). The two most frequently cited reasons are [1] to avoid having passengers cross the street in front of the bus, blind to any traffic that might be moving in the adjacent lane, and [2] to let the bus maneuver more easily into the stop.
Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, and this rule is no exception.
Another reason I've always heard for the change was to avoid accidents with other vehicles making right turns in front of a bus.
Was it also for drivers to "beat the light"?
The New Jersey Department of Transportation is another advocate of far side stops, which became more important when the Garden State started allowing right turns on red January 2, 1977. New Jersey Transit now posts bus stops for municipalities; their policy is to NOT place a sign at the corner for a far side stop, although near side and midblock stops still get two.
An amusing aside: there was an independent operator who ran a rush hour express service. The express drivers were told to stop at the opposite corner from where the posted stops for the locals were! When a new Police Director assumed office and found out, the practice was of course discontinued.
Hi All. Sorry I've been away for a while. I'm still trying to get a Jackie Gleason Decal or hat just like the buses. Any leads let me know. Someone was suppose to help me but never heard anything more on that. Take Care
Ken
Did the TA ever take over any of the Brooklyn to Manhattan express routes operated by the now defunct Metro Apple Express ? If so what are the Route designation numbers ?
KING SOLOMON
I heard that the TA might be starting up the X26, this will be flowing the same route as the olb BM10 that Motre Apple was runing. The TA will get most of the passager that now ride the pirvice that ride the line now. Some of them still charge them $4.00 for the ride.
One more thing the serive might start in System pick this Fall.
News to me -- and I know the people who do the planning!
David
Where are yuo getting this info,,I too,know people in the MTA due to my OEM Involvment.There are things in the works,however,that is not one of them
Steve
New NYCT route? The X26?
It's time for a repeat lesson on how rumors are started:
1. Somebody wonders aloud ("Wouldn't it be great/awful/interesting if they did thus and such"); somebody else overhears and passes it along. (Makes a great experiment in rumor-mongering!)
2. Somebody invents stuff and posts it to BusTalk.
3. Union leaders make requests, and then interpret management's listening as unequivocal approval and impending implementation.
The moral here: Wait for stuff to be officially announced through official channels. THAT's when it's official. All else is speculation.
The material that I post ,,is the MTA Material..new routes,,,changes,,etc
Some recent examples of new routes,,that I published before the Actual route went to the Public-----
M20 and M10
Q20A and Q20B
If you want to know about new routes,,that originate from MTA Sources,,read my Agendas
-NYC Transit Committee
Steve
It was just something that I just heard. I did not say it was true. I say I don't belive it untill I see it with anything the TA does.
I checked with one of the planners. While NYCT has received many requests to start service on the former BM15 route, and there apparently is a market for such a route, NYCT has neither the buses, the Operators, nor the physical capacity in either Ulmer Park or Jackie Gleason (the logical depots for such a service) to run on the route. It should also be remembered that express bus service is a HUGE money-loser because it is very expensive to operate, and that, unlike on Staten Island, the majority of riders in Brooklyn express bus territory (or potential express bus territory) are somewhere between a short walk and a short bus ride away from subway service. Lastly, it should be remembered that Metro-Apple, the operator of the former BM-15 route, bought elderly second-hand buses, spent next to nothing on maintaining them, and STILL didn't make any money.
David
There would be room in Ulmer Park if the new Brooklyn Depot open up as was sayed in early post. Ulmer Park would lose the B6 to ENY and the B1 & B4 to JG. JG would lose the B61 and B34 & ENY would lose the Q24, Q56 and B24 to the new depot. So if the TA would do all this then there would be room for a new Express line in Upmer Park. All they would need is the Driver to help make the seriver that the new line would take to rus.
See? As "Gotham Bus Company" said, this is what happens when people start talking to each other around the depots. NONE of this stuff is being proposed! When we're closer to having the new Brooklyn facility open (and it's not even under construction right now), decisions will be made as to what will run where. And don't believe that massive amounts of space will suddenly become available in any or all of the five current Brooklyn depots -- the new facility is going to be pretty small (150 buses or so, from what I've heard -- through OFFICIAL channels) and is intended to alleviate overcrowding, not to create substantial additional capacity in any facility or facilities.
Oh, and there isn't a B34 anymore...perhaps B43?
Now, I'll prove I'm not immune to making mistakes :-) The original posting referred to the BM10, and I answered about the BM15, which is the other route Metro-Apple operated. Nevertheless, the information I provided holds true for the BM10 as well. Even if enough capacity could be found, buses would still have to be bought (or buses scheduled for scrapping by that time would have to be retained for a while) and Operators would have to be hired. Any way it's sliced, express service is an expensive proposition, and there are no plans to serve additional areas of Brooklyn with NYCT express service.
David
BTW: In addition to BM10 and BM15, Metro-Apple also had the BM11 (65th Street) and BM12 (Ft. Hamlton Pkwy) for a while.
I've seen Command roll-signs with readings for the BM10, BM11, and BM15, so an allowance was obviously made for a take-over that never happened. Oh, well.
How does this route go?
This post contains 3 questions about lights on buses.
1. What is the purpose of those 2 lights on either side of the front sign?
2. What are those two lights on either side of the "third brake light" that sometimes blink?
3. What's with the lights that come on as the front doors open and turn off as the doors close?
1 - The yellow lights on either side of the destination sign are for emergencies. The driver can push a foot switch which activates the lights (They flash) displays "Emergency - Please Call Police" on the destination sign. All NYCTA/MABSTOA buses ordered since 1968 were equipped with the emergency lights.
2 - In the NYC area MSBA (now LI Bus) I beleive was the first to use these lights. I'm guessing that there sort of like hazard lights. The start to flash when the brakes are applied.
3 - The lights that turn on/off when the front door is opened/closed is too reduce glare during night driving.
Wayne
On the rear destination sign, it says
"CALL"
switches to
"COPS"
In addition to what R68A - 5200 said... I forgot to mention that marker, clearance and tail lights also flash with the two front emergency lights.
Wayne
Here in DC, it says the same thing but has "911" at the end of the "CALL" "COPS" message.
It does that on most of the TA buses I've seen with the signs in that mode as well.
-Hank
Actually, those 2 orange lights blink when you take your foot off the accelerator. Once the brake is applied, the brake lights come on. The orange lights indicate the vehicle is slowing down. I think it's somehow hooked to the retarder. State law prohibits any lights other than 'red warning lamps' to be lit upon application of the brake (ie, once you step on the brake, only the brake lights should be lighting...any other lights already on don't matter, they just can't come on when you step on the brake. I'll cite the relevant part of the VTL when I get home, I have the book.
-Hank
I asked a Transit Instructor and he said they're called "busy lights" and they indicate the bus is slowing after the brakes have been applied and released.
Is there any special code that Washington MetroBus routes are named like in New York? (B=Brooklyn, Bx=Bronx, M=Manhattan, Q=Queens, S=Staten Island, X=Express)
Most WMATA bus routes have a letter preceding the number(s), but it has nothing to do with the area served (like NYCTA). WMATA routes have three types of route designations.
They are...
1 - A letter preceding the number(s) example: E-4, J-2, Y-8 etc.
2 - number(s) precdeding a letter. example: 7-F, 12-A, 38-B etc.
3 - Plain old numbers... 30, 41, 52 etc.
Many WMATA routes operate between MD-DC & VA-DC, but some are lie entirely within MD, VA and DC of course.
The routes in MD-DC and DC have route designations in example #1.
The routes in VA-DC have route designations in example #2
As far as I've seen #3 are some DC only routes.
Also I've noticed that peak hour only routes between MD-DC have odd numbers example: P-7, Z11, Z29.
Wayne
Also, each letter is a route. Here are some:
S-16th Street
Z-Colesville Road
L-Conneticut Avenue
N-Massachusetts Avenue
T-River Road
1-Wilson Blvd
13-Loop (Pentagon-DC)
For the numbers
30s-Wisconsin Avenue/Pennsylvania Avenue
50s-14th Street
70s-Georgia Avenue
Even number (L2) designates all times.
Odd number (L1) designates rush hour or part time (35 runs Sunday only, combo of 34 and 36)
If you go to http://www.wmata.com and click timetables, you will notice the patterns.
Two follow-up question:
1. For DC and MD routes, how was it decided which corridors should get letter-plus-number and which should get number-only? It doesn't seem to be a strict split between DC and MD.
2. For cross-Potomac routes, what determines whether the route gets a Maryland number or a Virginia number? Specifically, P13 (MD) has most of its route miles in VA, while the 13-series and 14-series (VA) have most of their miles in DC and MD, respectively.
1. It is not a strict split. It has to do with the old designations before WMATA was founded.
2. Think it has to do with the line name.
Also on the Maryland Routes, the letters are specified to street and area served:
Y Lines - Georgia Avenue
Q Lines - Viers Mill Road
Z Lines - Colesville Road / US Route 29
C Lines - Montgomery County-PG County Crosstowns
T Lines - Western Montgomery County
so on and so on!
Trevor Logan
If you see any such notices,usuallly on the Bus Window in the Passenger Areas.--Please post the exact details
Thanks
Steve
I heard from a former TA supervisor in Staten Island that if an express bus that originated in Brooklyn or Staten Island broke down in Manhattan that the driver could not go to a TA garage in Manhattan for assistance. MABSTOA mechanics would refuse to work on a TA bus that was not in their system. Is this still the case ?
KING SOLOMON
SI Express buses usually spend their off-hours in Manhattan in either Hudson Pier or Westside Depots (mostly Westside, now)
Since all the buses belong to the NYCTA (purchased with state, city, and federal $$$, they are no longer seperately registered) and MaBSTOA is now basically a paper organization, with the MTA as the umbrella for all, I doubt it. It'd be an extremely stupid stance for the union to take, especially since their new contract suggests the merger of MaBSTOA and NYCTA, and thus elimination of the former.
-Hank
How many of you folks know about the B 110 Route operated by Private Transportation Corp. between the Williamsburg and Boro Park sections of Brooklyn. To my knowledge it was the first Express franchise ever awarded by the city and the only express line that operates solely within the Borough of Brooklyn.
KING SOLOMON
Don't forget the B103 (Command). It makes pick-ups from Canarsie through Church & W.7th a-la-BM2, then shoots to Downtown Brooklyn. Local fare.
The B103- The Canarsie limited, acomfortable express ride for the price of the local. Now only if there was more service and better hours odf service rather than quiting at around 6 pm or something. As for the B110 I think I was the first mention this almost 2 years ago, but I never saw any repsonse to it. What are it hours of service, frequency of service, is there a schedule or web site to check out and where are the bus stops?
Several months ago, I also asked some questions about Private Transportation and the B 110. I had seen a bus northbound on Carlton Ave. at De Kalb. It was a Grumman 870. The yard was somewhere off of 2nd Ave. Brooklyn. It does not on the Jewish Sabbath (Late Friday afternoon until sundown Saturday) and probably all Jewish holidays. No one knew what the fare was or stops, but since it is a city franchised route, I presume that they must stop for everyone, not just orthodox Jews. I wonder since the orthodox have strict rules about seperation of the sexes, do the women take the bus and do they sit on opposite sides from men. What would they do, if a non-orthodox (or non-jewish) male would sit on their side???
# 9306 WF f/k/a Hart Bus
I think I can shed some light on the B 110. The original franchise for Private Transportation Corp. was awarded to Marcus Perlstein, who was the first Orthodox Hasidic Jew in the bus business. I believe he started the service in 1960 with old rented 1948 GMC 4101s. Then with the help of UMTA funds he purchased 3 new TD 5302 Transit buses.
Then came an awful tragedy. His 22 year old son Izzy who was his right hand man was killed in the garage which at that time was on 39th St. & 13th Ave. He was crushed between 2 buses when the emergency brake accidentaly released. Old man Marcus never recovered from the awful tragedy and passed away the following year. The company was then taken over by Jack Marmerstein, one of his drivers.
Marmerstein was very successful and is still the owner of this line.
The bus runs every half hour. It starts at Lee Ave. & Taylor St. in Williamsburg, gets on the BQE at Wythe & Kent, then travels by way of the BQE, Gowanus and Prospect Expressways. It exits the Prospect at 10th Ave and travels down McDonald Ave to Fort Hamilton Parkway where it makes a right turn. It travels west along Fort Hamilton Parkway to 50th St. where it makes a left turn. It then stops at every block until it terminates at 18th Avenue. The return trip operates via 49th St., being that 49th & 50th Sts. are one way only. It operates every half hour and the one way fare is $2.00 It does not operate on the Jewish Sabbath which begins one hour before sundown Friday evening and terminates 72 minute after sundown on Saturday night. It also does not run on the major Jewish holidays of Passover, Rosh Hashana, Yom Kippur, Succos, Shemini Atzeres and Shavuos. As a rule,men and women voluntarily sit on opposite sides of the bus. The bus does carry non Jewish persons or non-orthodox Jews, but they usually respect the traditions of the majority and sit accordingly. If anyone is unfamiliar with the tradition, the driver would never publicly embarass the stranger, but one of the fellow passengers might discreetly inform the stranger as to what the traditional behavior was. But nobody would ever get thrown off the bus. The bus usually starts running at 6 AM and runs until 1 AM.
Mr. Marmerstein also owns and operates Video Tours which does charters & Atlantic City line runs as well as New York Airport Bus Service which is the successor to Carey Transportation. All 3 companies operate out of his facility on 2nd Ave. between 6th & 7th St. in Park Slope.
KING SOLOMON
Please confirm the Routings,,NB and SB
Thanks
Jewish rules of sex separation apply only to worship, beyond that, no such thing exists. And you should be more specific, this bus is run by Hasids, which is a particular sect of orthodox Jews. Orthodox Jews are merely those that follow Jewish law as it supposed to be followed, according to the talmud. The Hasids however, have additional beliefs and customs that go beyond that, but are not necessarily required by Jewish law.
Hey Treyf (Pigs ain't kosher), which sect of Hasids run the B-110? Is it the Lubavitch, Belz, Satmar or some other branch. There are slight differences between them, most notably their hats and coats..My guess since the route originates in Williamsburg its the Satmar sect. King Solomon, can you shed any light on this ??
Shalom on Shabbos,
#9306WF f/k/a Hart Bus
Whereas the Satmars are the prime users of the B-110, I believe that other sects, as well as non Hasidim are permitted to ride, as long as they pay their $2.00.
The route is publically authorized (official permit for NYCDOT). Therefore, if any group is not allowed to ride this bus, this bus would not last very long.
i'm not orthodox jew(or hasidic jew) and i ride the bus occasionally. As long as you wear a hat and sit opposite the driver, you are fine. Women ride in the back of the bus and if the bus is really crowded, the women MUST enter through the back door.
from Boro Park on 50 St ,Left on 18 Av,49 St,Fort Hamilton Parkway Caton Av,McDonald Av,Terrace Place ,11 Av,18 St,Prospect Expressway ,BQE,Flushing Av Exit,Classon Av,Rutledge St,Bedford Av,Taylor St to Stand at Lee Av
Ret via Lee av,Middleton St,Wallabout St,Kent Av,Williamsbrg Street West,BQE,Prospect Expressway ,10 Av,20 St,McDonald,Fort Hamilton Pway ,50 St to 18 Av
Brooklyn Deviations
NB
via McDonald Av,20 St,Prospect Park West,Bartel Pritchard Sq,15 St,8 Av,Union Street,GAP,Vanderbilt Av,Classson Av
SB via Williamburg St West ,Park Av,Washington Av,Underhill Av,St Johns Place,,or Washington Av,Atlantic Av,Vanderbilt Av,,,,then GAP,Prospect Park West,Bartel Pritchard Square,,PPW,20 St,McDonald
Someone mentioned Carlton Av,,,please verify and correct
Note--my material came from Observations and the Franchise Contracts
Steve
Steve,
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you, but a man has to work some time and can not be on line 24 hours a day.
a) The exact routing for the B 110 is exactly as you described it. The bus that was seen on Carlton Ave. is a possibility because the drivers are given wide latitude to deviate from the route to make time when the BQE is backed up. I have also frequently seen them use Hicks St. which runs parallel to the BQE, northbound to avoid traffic.
b) The turn-a-round on the Hanukov Ocean Parkway Route would be Ave. R to East 7th St. to Ave. S to East 8th St. to Ave. R back to Ocean Parkway. As far as the Hanukov Bensonhurst Route is concerned, I have never ridden it so I can not confirm where the route ends or turns around at the end of Bay Parkway. I will try to get that information for you but it may take a little time.
c) The Crown Heights Community Council Bus to Boro Park still operates over the same route that you describe.
By the way, I did get your e-mail and I just love that music.
KING SOLOMON
Thank you
For the Hicks street deviation,,,I am assuming running under the BQE from the Prospect Exwy,,,to Hicks,and entering from Atlantic Av ??
The bus entered Hicks St. from Hamilton Ave. which runs underneath the Gowanus. At that point the BQE is down in the trench and Hicks St. runs above it at street level. The buses would go to Atlantic Ave., make a left and re-enter the BQE. If traffic was still heavy they would stay on Hicks St. all the way to the end and re-enter the BQE at Cadman Plaza.
Shabbos has just ended and I am once again permitted to operate my computer after a 26 hour hiatus. I will probably have the disticntion of being the first to preach a "Rabbinical Sermon" about Jewish law on a Transit website of all places; a very strange forum indeed.
Yes, the Synagogue where prayers are conducted is where separation of the sexes is most noticeable among Orthodox Jews. However the great majority of Orthodox (non Hasidic) Jews today also have extended this practice to all public gatherings, be it weddings, funerals, charity fund-raisers, lectures, concerts etc. The rationale behind this is two-fold. The first is to avoid any physical contact with the opposite sex (other than your own wife) which is strictly prohibited. The second is to avoid seeing women who are not modestly dressed. Modest dress is defined as dresses with a high neckline, long sleeves and skirts which extend below the knees.
Public transit, especially when crowded during rush hour constitutes the greatest danger of these two being violated. That is why bus lines like the B 110 have come into existence.
The route is operated mainly for Hasidics and not by Hasidics. Jack Marmerstein who owns Private Transportation Corp. is not a Hasid. He does not have a beard nor does he wear the traditional black garb. He is however a Sabbath observing Orthodox Jew. Both Boro Park and Williamsburg are home to all the aforementioned sects of Hasidic as well as non Hasidic Orthodox Jews. The route was originally conceived to service ALL of them, and still does. Previous to the establishment of this route, the only way to travel between the 2 neighborhoods was by taking the Q line into Canal St., Manhattan and transfering to the B train. The convenience of the direct service, not the religious factor was what persuaded the city to grant the Franchise in the first place.
Someone asked be the exact route of the B 110. I am not familiar with the Williamsburg portion, but I will get that information from a friend of mine who worked as a dispatcher for the company. I will post the entire route as soon as I receive the relevant information.
KING SOLOMON
Thank you
Steve
You shouldn't post this here.
I invite BusTalk users who wish to engage in off topic conversation to join Off Subtalk (leave e-mail blank). Even though it's off SUBtalk, BusTalk users are also welcome!
Sorry Pigs, but I was only trying to answer a question posed directly to me by some one on this site.
The main point however is that this Franchise was granted by the City not for religious reasons but because of convenience and necessity. It opened up a direct one fare link between 2 points in Brooklyn, which previous to that required 2 subway trains with a change of trains in Manhattan.
KING SOLOMON
I'm just encouraging membership in Off Subtalk!
NY Bus Service had four single door Orion Express buses. Two of them were driven to Green Bus and the other two will go shortly in exchange for 4 of those old reliable MCIs. I also understand that nycDOT recently "officially" took a look at the express bus that the TA bought.
Disclaimer: This is not an official announcement.
Mr t__:^)
Here's more info about private moves:
QS 700-705 will be sent to GBL and will be renumbered as 5545-5550.
NYBS 1711-1714 will be sent to GBL and will be renumbered as 5551-5554.
QS 275-281 were sent to GBL and have been renumbered as 1143-1149.
QS 282-290 have been sent to JBL and have been renumbered as 3854-3862.
GBL MCI 703-704, 717 (former CTC 768) and 718 (former CTC 780) have left GBL and went to do service at NYBS. I do not work for Transit I'm just a bus buff.
Q46#8357Gary
wouldn't it have been easier to send the ORION V from NYBS to send them to Triboro Coach instead?
And when will the move go into affect?
It's in effect now. They're on their way to GBL now as we speak.
They'll probably be in service by 1st week of April. Triboro may get TMC's from QS. Stay tuned to find out.
Q46#8357Gary
You may recall that I previously stated that Orion was upgrading the electronics of the Destination signs on the "Vs". Yesterday we stopped 102 of the 162 Orion CNGs currently in service and only found two with bad front destination signs (the balance were out making money all day and didn't come back until late). They were also checking the side and rear signs as well as the wheelchair lifts.
Normally we depend on the driver to write up a item needing attention, so this was a one shot check to confirm what we thought, i.e. the problem had been fixed.
BTW, before you guys with the sharp pencils start asking a lot of questions ... 162 is the current operating fleet, not all the Orions CNGs have been delivered, and some others are parked because we are waiting for a late spring/early summer delivery of fareboxes or they will go in service when the last of the RTS transfers occur to our "private" friends.
Disclaimer: I'm not a official spokesman of my employeer or nycDOT.
Mr t__:^)
On the newer Orion buses, there is this area where the fifth (middle) seat in the back row is located on older buses. On the new QSC buses, there's a label that says "NOT TO BE USED AS A SEAT." Why was this seat eliminated and what is the purpose of what now exists on the newer buses? Probably something under it.
Part of the drive train. New buses are 'T' drive as opposed to 'V' drive, a slightly more efficient design, and a requirement with all the fancy plumbing they have to put in the buses so they meet emissions standards.
-Hank
Hank is correct and also the engines being used in the buses have alot to do with the middle seat being missing. The Orion CNG's at NYCT have Cummins L10G's in a T drive setting and the 5th seat is present. But when the Detroit Diesel Series 50 started being used the 5th seat was removed due to the engines components. But an interesting note is the New Flyers use T drive but retain the 5th seat. But one will notice that their feet will not touch the ground all the way depending on height. The rear bench has been raised and the 5th seat remains in these models.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
The word of a new Bus Depot in Queens is true, BUT It's not Maspeth, Maspeth will be a Central Maintenance Facility to replace East New York. The East New York CMF will become a full Bus Depot operation. The new queens depot will be located in Long Island City, and the first bus route worded to go there is the B61.
This is the reason why the last pick was wierd, the next pick will not happen until this depot is ready for full operation. Which is very soon.
Trevor Logan
What will the depot be called, QueensBridge?
Q46#8357Gary
No name has been chosen yet, nor amount of buses, only info availble was that its in LIC and that the B61 is one of the route going there. Slated to open by next pick. I guess the TA pulled a serious wall of quietness on this one.
Trevor
Any word as to which divsion this depot will belong to. My first guess would probably be Brooklyn if the B61 is possibly headed there.
Shaun
Confirmed? By Whom? In which newspaper(s) did the official announceent appear?
Please note,,it did not appear in the NYC Transit committee Agenda ,under new projects or Bids,,where did you see this ??
The only mention was of the Coliseum and 100 St Depots,and the Maspeth Maintenance Facility .
This information was pass down to me by a Jackie Gleason Depot employee and a Dept. of Buses Employess. This is probably that new depot that everyone was debating on BT a little while back.
Trevor Logan
Sorry to disappoint everyone but a new depot in Long Island City is a rumor which is not true.
There is no need for a Brooklyn Division depot in that part of Queens for the following reasons
1-If required the TA can reopen Crosstown Depot in Greenpoint
2-With the CMF moving from East New York to the Bronx later this year,East New York capacity can be doubled. When space is available the TA can transfer the B-43 and B-65 from Gleason to East New York. Both routes were ex-East New York lines and possibly the B-6 from Ulmer Park(which will be a bad move by the way) and possibly the B-20 and B-48 from Fresh Pond .With the extra space in East New York this should relieve the space problem in Brooklyn Division depots.
If any new depot is built in Queens it will be a replacement for the existing Jamaica Depot. If that happens then speculation for a new Jamaica Depot to be built if the TA takes over the private lines.
Thank You
Thank You for the correct info.
The lessons to be learned are as follows:
1. No matter how far "inside" one's source may be, absolutely NOTHING is "confirmed" until it is OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED, through OFFICIAL CHANNELS, by a DESIGNATED OFFICIAL.
2. As I mentioned in an earlier post, "thinking out loud" is a great way to experiment in rumor-mongering. The idea is to deliberately put out false information, then see whether and how far it spreads as well as how strangely it gets twisted. I've been involved in various organizations which have done that, in order to ferret out a traitor or a "loose tongue."
This may be all well in true! At least I can honestly say, when I do get my info, I am nice enought to share it as I get it. Be it whomever TA source I get it from. As past post may show, I'm not the only one that is hearing about this. We will all see. That's all I can say to that. But one thing I have learned from this is, keep whatever information I may receive to myself. And I will do so from here on out! If anyone has any direct questions, e-mail me, the address is at the top of this post.
Trevor Logan
Problem is, the people in the depots who hear about stuff like this hear it from...EACH OTHER!!!! This stuff starts with one person who (a) wishes it would happen, (b) wishes it wouldn't happen, (c) overheard part of a conversation and misinterpreted it, or (d) made it up to sound important.
If something happens, some SubTalker or BusTalker will find out about it and report it (we're EVERYwhere ). Until then, there's no point in speculating.
David
Allow me to add the following to my earlier post:
3. I myself have access to a few "insiders" at NYCT; some are directly involved in developing plans and making decisions, while others are not. Some items of discussion are near implementation, others are being developed, still others are ideas in two peoples' heads - AND I don't always know which items fall into which category, and which have been "fed" to me as disinformation. The safest approach, of course, is to remain silent on all of it, an wait for official word regarding community outreach, public hearings, or implementation.
OBVIOUSLY, there is no implicit harm in suggesting, theorizing, or making educated guesses. In fact, I've said before that, with the combined knowledge and experience represented in the Talks, this group's suggestions, theories, and guesses may well prove superior to the planners' plans. The key is that any "What-If" discussion should be kept IN THAT CONTEXT. Once a decision is made and announced (be it Manhattan Bridge and 63rd Street service plans or Queens Surface sending buses to Green), then it can be discussed as fact.
My friend from FLA did tell me about this depot and that there will be some moves in the fall pick.......... B61 is going there huh???????
B46M Limited
i too have been hearing the rumor for so long, and i always thought the depot was Crosstown. Will be interesting to see it open.
Yesterday me & my father were talking about CDL Test that im going to take it very soon. But after we finish talking than he also told me that All B/O from five boroughs must take CDL Test starting this summer & there are 20 questions. If any B/O fail the test than they will give you 5 day w/o pay & take the test again fellow week. If the B/O fail second time than they will give you another 5 day w/o pay or send you another assignmment in Depot & B/O can't drive the bus unless the B/O pass the test. So what do you think, do you agree or disagree?
Peace Out
David Justiniano
CDL is a federal requirement that all commercial drivers be properly trained. It's administered in each state to the same federal standard. To drive a city bus, you need at least a CDL-Class C with no air brake restriction and a passneger endorsement. The minimum age in NY is 21 to have this license (fed requirement is 18, 21 to drive interstate) I believe you need to re-take the written test, and are subject to a physical, when your license comes due for renewal.
-Hank
New York State is the only state in the US with the additional requirement of 19A law which all operators of passenger vehicles (buses, paratransit vans, school buses) are subject to. In a addition to having to take a road test bi-annually , bus operators must be observed in passenger service, be given bi-annual physicals and must take a written test annually at the time of their birthdays.
The test up to this year was a very easy written exam of 6 questions picked out of 20. This year that has been changed to 20 out of 100. If a operator fails this test, like David said, its 5 days suspension mandated by NY 19a Law.
Other provisions of 19a include employees must notify there company if they are arrested, change their address or recieve a conviction on their license, speeding and the like with similiar penalties if they fail to do so.
CDL license carriers are not subjected to these requirements (truck drivers). There is no retesting for CDL drivers licenses, and you need a B license to drive a bus.
In NYC transit all 19a matters are handled by the 19A dispatcher in every depot and at Hudson depot which currently is the home to the Training center soon to be moved to Zerega Av.
I think 19a is to vigourous in its attempt to control bus operators in NY State. Many small bus companies rarely follow it but because NYC transit is a government entity its followed to the letter. 19A law was created because of a fireman who was moonlighting as a school bus operator in Upstate NY having a very bad accident and killing the child of a Senator.
I tend to agree that he state beauracracy would tend to keep an eye on the larger operators rather than the smaller ones. The smaller ones can get lost in the shuffle so to speak. I think the TA can adequately police itself in this matter and in fact would have tougher procedeures than the 19A law mandates........While it is unfortunate that the child of an upstate senator was killed thereby prompting this law in that childs memory (probably no law would have never proposed/passed if it was the child of a taxpayer), what comes to mind a LIRR grade crossing elimination project on Herricks Road on the main line was pushed through promptly after the daughter of the state senator was killed in a grade crossing accident. Again, if it happened to a taxpayer, that grade crossing probably would still be there. Hate to sound cold about this, but things happen only after tragedy hits close to home (fellow politicians who control laws and financial allocations).
Let me try to clear up something about the 19A law in NY State.
There are 2 types of 19A drivers. All bus companies who's vehicles are registerd in NY State must now have their drivers 19A tested, and road tested. That is the regular 19A. The second and more stringent category is 19A SCHOOL QUALIFIED. These drivers in addition to all the other requirements must be FINGERPRINTED as well. This was done primarily in response to Meagan's Law, to make surse you do not have a pedophile driving school children. The 19A SCHOOL QUALIFIED is not only for those driving school buses, but applies to charter coach operators who take school trips to Washington DC or anywhere else for that matter. Charter coach companies who's vehicles are registered in states other than NY must also have their drivers 19A SCHOOL CERTIFIED by NY STATE DMV, if they are carrying school children. Also, the statement that the 19A law is only enforced by large companies or the TA is absolutely false. I know first hand about this because I am the "charter manager" for a coach company in Brooklyn with only 26 buses. We keep a full time person on staff to deal with just 19A. DMV comes in to check are records unannounced at least twice a year. In the course of my job I talk daily with owners of much smaller fleets and even those with 1 or 2 buses get audited routinely for 19A. The NYC schools are not that strict, but when you do business with individual school districts in the suburbs (LI & Upstate), they keep a current roster of all your 19A school qualified drivers on file, and every time you do a charter move for them the driver's latest DMV abstract must be presented or they will not allow the coach to move.
Before working for NYC transit I worked for a paratransit company and a private bus company. In both jobs we were told about being 19A certified and "given tests" and all the procedures, but nothing in reality was done. This was in 1993 and 1994 and perhaps the law was not as seriously enforced as now so I recant what I said about private companies not following 19A law.
New York State is the only state in the US with the additional requirement of 19A law which all operators of passenger vehicles (buses, paratransit vans, school buses) are subject to. In a addition to having to take a road test bi-annually , bus operators must be observed in passenger service, be given bi-annual physicals and must take a written test annually at the time of their birthdays.
The test up to this year was a very easy written exam of 6 questions picked out of 20. This year that has been changed to 20 out of 100. If a operator fails this test, like David said, its 5 days suspension mandated by NY 19a Law.
Other provisions of 19a include employees must notify there company if they are arrested, change their address or recieve a conviction on their license, speeding and the like with similiar penalties if they fail to do so.
CDL license carriers are not subjected to these requirements (truck drivers). There is no retesting for CDL drivers licenses, and you need a B license to drive a bus.
In NYC transit all 19a matters are handled by the 19A dispatcher in every depot and at Hudson depot which currently is the home to the Training center soon to be moved to Zerega Av.
I think 19a is too vigourous in its attempt to control bus operators in NY State. Many small bus companies rarely follow it but because NYC transit is a government entity its followed to the letter. 19A law was created because of a fireman who was moonlighting as a school bus operator in Upstate NY having a very bad accident and killing the child of a Senator.
B65: Saw two b65 back to back during my lunch break. How cold there be back to back buses when there is a 15-20 minute headway?
B103: Saw it for the first time today. Dropped somebody off at Fulton and Adams. However there is no bus top at that corner.(Bklyn Br bound). Does this bus have designated stops? I know it s a limited........
B46M Limited
B103 has designated stops, but some drivers play "Request-A-Stop" when they feel like it.
The first pick-up eastbound is on Adams, in front of Supreme Court (about 100 feet behind where the B25/B38/B41/B52 load). Second stop is at Boerum & Joralemon (with B65). Then pick-ups along Livingston.
Bus "bunching": when buses are close together. It could be from a number of possibilities:
1. double-parked vehicle on a narrow street
2. heavy traffic on part of its route
3. many passengers on one bus, few people on the next bus... this leads to two buses coming close together, and "trade off" the lead... the less-crowded passes the more-crowded bus, the less-crowded bus makes stops to pick up people waiting at the bus stop, the more-crowded bus passes the less-crowded bus, etc.
That's all I can think of now.
May also be because there are 2 buses scheduled at this time. Many routes have multiple buses scheduled around the time school lets out. 4 s55 leave at the same time from Luten and Eyelandt around 1445 on school days.
-Hank
True, but not on the B65. There are no "spotted trips" (as they're called) on this route.
David
That could be it since the B65 is one way street route.....
B46M Limited
Today I saw a Suffolk Transit bus with a different paint scheme than the usual color blue. The serial number was 9917. I didn't notice the bus model. Anyone know if this is part of an order of new buses with a new paint scheme? Also on another note, Green Line 5528 was at Atlantic Diesel in Bohemia for the last few days. Today it looked like it was ready to be sent back to Queens.
The only new buses in Suffolk that I've seen are from HART. They're about 30 ft long with digital signs on the front and side. I believe I've seen some 9900 series buses in the usual blue paint scheme.
Erin Tours Inc. used to operate and express bus from Breezy Point in the Rockaways to 57th St. in Midtown Manhattan by way of the Marine Parkway Bridge through Brooklyn. Does anyone know whether Green Bus took over this route after Erin stopped running it and if so what is the Route designation number?
This route is no longer running,,or operated by any carrier
It seems that the 30 foot Flxible Metros being used by Montgomery County (MD), Ride-On are still property of WMATA. I originally thought this was the case because they retained their WMATA fleet numbers and Washington DC license plates. Last night I passed one in Silver Spring and I noticed on the lower left near to the front wheel it said something like "Owned by WMATA" or "Property of WMATA".
Also - I saw and rode a WMATA 1997 Orion V with a non-working destination sign. It was #4268 on the F-6 route.
Wayne
And the trend continues of non working destination signs on these buses.
I guess so - but the point I was making was that it's possible that those buses (50) that went to NYC-DOT are not being maintained as well as those at WMATA. I don't recall seeing any other 1997 Orion V at WMATA with malfunctioning signs.
Wayne
I mentioned this before. On the 92, the buses all say this. In fact, the 92 is operated by WMATA!
CONFIRMED! I was at Bethesda about 50 minutes ago and saw 5166 on the 92. On the left side, it said "Owned and operated by WMATA"
Help; Does anyone know for sure whether the blue& white bus transfers are no longer accepted for any (local) bus at any location, as long as one uses a different bus route in under 2 hrs. 18 min(approx)? For instance, a timely B39 transfer is NO GOOD on many ENY routes. I will try other combos when I get a chance. Can someone please tell us the new transfer acceptance rules? Thanks.
To my knowledge the "rules" haven't changed, i.e. if you're going North you can transfer East or West, etc., but can't get off, have a cup of coffee, and get back on the same line. Some places this doesn't seem to work this way, e.g. Q65/Q25 folks can't transfer to Q110/111/112 ... I don't know why. And sometimes you have to caugh up some extra coins, e.g. if you're comming from a local & want to catch an Express, it's a $1.50 "Step Up Fare" to meet the $3.00 standard fare.
Mr t__:^)
Any transfers to/from an express bus are METROCARD ONLY.
Your responses are welcome, but you missed the point. That is: for Local bus routes within two hours, is there, or is there not universal acceptance of transfers?
["...for Local bus routes within two hours, is there, or is there not universal acceptance of transfers?]
The short answer: NO!
The long answers:
1. The "window of opportunity" for transfer connections is 2.3 hours (2:18). The additional 18 minutes is a "lateness allowance."
2. SPECIFIC transfer privileges are governed by a "Transfer Acceptance Table," which is a matrix specifying all allowable transfer priviges for EACH DESTINATION SIGN READING at EACH DEPOT. (That's why, when a bus is moved from one depot to another, its farebox MUST be reprogramed for its new home.) Thus, a southbound Q44 signed for Jamaica will give a transfer to the Q5 in Jamaica, while a southbound Q44 signed for Flushing WON'T. Also, a southbound Q44 CARRYING A NORTHBOUND SIGN will also not transfer to the Q5. That's why I get annoyed when B/O's use wrong readings, deliberately or otherwise - they're forcing passengers who transfer to pay a second fare.
I've been on Orion V that are express buses on the Q53. The 2 reasons i got from drivers why these buses were on this line were the following:
1-the line is a express route.
2-they have 72 of them. they have to run them somewhere.
Oviously, Triboro has way too many express buses and not enough local buses. Why did Triboro not get local Orion buses as Green and Queens surface did?
i just thought i'd let people know that the daily news did a follow up article on railfans ( after the story about the guy who broke into the subway control tower )... the article came out in today's paper... it has a nice picture of me standing in front of my r9 motorman's cab... unfortunately they did not publish me sitting behind the wheel of my c-49 mack bus that i also have in my apartment (just kidding)... david pirmann was also interviewed in the article... my thanks to david for this website...
i would like to take exception to the opening sentence of the article:
Paul Kronenberg is a normal guy with an odd fixation.
It should read:
Paul Kronenberg is an odd guy with a normal fixation. :>)
Is there a way to obtain the arcticle on the internet?
here's a link to the daily news article
daily news article
thanks!
9156: Saw this bus at the B57 terminal(Boerum and Schermerhorn). The bottom rear was lifted and a surface maintenance truck was right behind it........
9041: Bus is out of ENY depot. People were complaiing aout this bus a couple of weeks ago. From the outside, there is nothing wrong with it
3175: Was on Flatbush Ave. as "NOT IN SERVICE" This bus would fail the emissions test. Nothing but black smoke was spewing from the rear of the bus........
B46M Limited
9156: at the terminal? If so probably didn't start. That's a FP bus and that place is not known for high quality maintance. Those 9100's are just 4 years old and already have been "ran into the ground"......9041: I thought they were complaining about 9040 a couple of weeks ago..... 3175: what do you expect out of a 17 year old bus. Scrap it!
Be aware of GBL 610. This fails emissions test by a longshot. Smoke comes out so much that you can barely see the rear of the bus itself. Saw her on Q60 on Thursday. And also I think they're a whole bunch of other GMC RTS at GBL that do the same thing- 279, 614, 649 just to name a few.
Q46#8357Gary
if this is true with these buses, why doesnt GBL replace them and get others buses. don't they pose a safety hazzard?
No, 9156 did not start. 3319 was next to her to pick passengers up.........
3175: The black smoke was filling up in my car as I drove behind it............
B46M Limited
Wonderful! A 3300 series to the rescue of a lousy 9100 series!
I take it that you are not a fan of the NOVA RTS......
B46M Limited
You are 100% correct!
Where is my million dollars??????:):)
B46M Limited
This morning, between 11:30 and 12 Noon, I was riding the M23 eastbound from Chelsea Piers and had what can only be described as an excellent bus driver. I don't know if it was because the windows were fogging up, and it became difficult to see, but she announced not only every stop, but also every connection at the stop. She also warned passengers to be careful exiting, and was generally more pleasant and helpful than I have ever experienced. Not that I needed her help myself, or that I had to, but I did thank her as I disembarked and told her she was very helpful. She said she appreciated my mentioning it, and we went on our ways. This sort of service deserves mention somewhere, so I thought of here. If I had had time to get her name or number, I would have, so I could write to the MTA commending her.
It may still be possible to identify the Bus Operator. Call 1-800-NYCT-BUS during the week and provide as much information as can be remembered. The fact that the Bus Operator was female should help the Department of Buses identify her. If she was that impressive, her bosses should find out!
David
If you wanna to identify the Bus Driver? Just look at the badge number & run number & what route he/she work on also what date he/she work.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
The authority can ID the driver by the bus number alone and the time of day.
Call the MTA to nominate for an apple award. You just need the unit number and time of day.
What is the engine and transmission powerteam on this Mack Bus?
Trevor Logan
I can't answer your question about the Mack powertrain, but thanks for posting the picture of 6259, my favorite TA museum bus. It hasn't been to the last few bus festivals and I never saw a picture of it anywhere. Do you have more pictures of 6259 or other TA Macks that you would be willing to post or e-mail to me? Do you have any pictures which show the bus from the rear?
The first time I ever visited the Transit Museum I remember seeing a piture (poster?) of a Surface C-49, mayber 3000, in its original livery. It was a posed picture, probably when the bus was brand new, and it was taken on Riverside Drive with Grant's Tomb in the background. I have never seen that picture since, much to my regret, and in all the web pages with TA buses past and present that I have visited there are very few pictures of Macks. There have to be some good pictures of these great buses out there somewhere.
hey eric--- i happy to find another fan of the c-49 macks--- i use to post on bus talk as paul c-49 mack-- i have several close-up shots of the front brow and windshield of 6259, as well as some shots of the rear of the bus--- i also have some shots of the dashboard from behind the wheel--- these shots were taken the last time i saw the mack at a bus festival---
if you are interested in the history and pictures of mack buses, i have the mar/apr 1974 issue of motor coach age which devoted over 40 pages to mack bus--
i can xerox it for you--- e-mail me if you'd like that and some prints of 6259 front and rear and dashboard--- are you old enough to have ridden in the macks?
until recently, i did not know that mack built its first bus in brooklyn on atlantic avenue in 1902--- it was a sightseeing open tourer that seated 13 people---
i can answer some of trevor's questions:
the engine in the c-49 was an END-673---- 6 cycle--- 672 cubic inch--- which developed 170 hp--- with a turbocharger it was boosted to 205 hp
the only notes on the transmission was that it was turbocharged
Wait until May. There will be a dynamite photo book released all about Mack buses, 1900-1960. From the people that brought us the GM Fishbowl
pictorial. About $29.95
Joe C
I'm no mechanical genius, but I don't think you can turbocharge a transmission. Engine, yes -- but NOT a transmission.
While the Mack buses in New York may have been slightly different, the ones at San Francisco Municipal Railway has the Mack ENDT673 turbocharged diesel engine which was designed in Sweden.
Not sure if anyone knows, but there were a LOT of Mack buses made for Sweden, with right hand driver positions (left side doors).
According to the book "Inside Muni" (co-authored by John McKane, who also did the GM New Look pictorial book that Joe C. mentioned....)
there were "two different types of Spicer transmissions" but no specifics are given.
Hello, I was just wondering how many New Looks this company has in service and when they are expected to be retired.
Thanks alot.
Brad
New Looks range from 1481-1505. They're 1981-1982 models in excellent shape. Give or take the most 2 years before they're retired.
Q46#8357Gary
Just thought you people might be interested.
Hamilton Street Railway (Hamilton Ontario) and OC Transpo (Ottawa)Pare the only two cities in the world to use 'fishbowl' articulated buses in service. Unfortunatly the Hamilton Street Railway will be retiring their GMC articulated soon, to say good bye there's a upcoming fan trip in the beautiful city of Hamilton. It's held on Saturday May 20, 11:00 am - 5:00. Further Details (As well as details about other farewell fan trips in the Toronto area) are available at http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/gtabus/charters.html .
I thought TTC also had a few GMDD articulated fishbowls (TA60102N).
Wayne
If I'm not mistaken, those originally in Toronto eventually wound up in Hamilton.
Actually, the buses that previously ran with TTC ended up next door at Mississauga Transit (suburb of Toronto).
Someone was also asking for the URL again, it's
http://members.xoom.com/gtabus/ (click events page)
Hamilton and Ottawa are NOT the "only two cities in the world to use 'fishbowl' articulated buses".
Mississauga Transit had some too.
C5200001-C5200014 (MT 5001-5014)
OC Transpo:
C5200015-C5200035 (OCT 8201-8221)
Hamilton Street Railway
C5200036-C5200041 (HSR 8201-8205)
Toronto Transit Commission:
C5200042-C5200053 (TTC 8500-8511)
Actually, all these buses may have had the sides of "fishbowls" but they had the "Classic" front ends.
Exactly how many LFS did NYC MTA buy?
We've only got one for testing purposes here in Toronto and the TTC decided against buying more of them. We've got CNG Orion VIs and the New Flyer D-40LFs.
I wonder if the New Flyer Inveros will start showing up on the east coast anytime soon.
-Brad
The TA only has one on the property. NovaBUS LFS #999 (Ex #995). She's is operating out of the Hudson Pier Depot in Manhattan and is moving to the Bronx sometime soon. I was told the only reason the LFS is here is to test the 7.2L Detroit Diesel Series 40E Engine that is in the bus, not being tested for the bus.
Our other low floor buses are our Orion VI HEV Hybrid Electric (5 Here, 5 More Coming) and New Flyer C40LF CNG (56 Here, 134 More Coming). We also have on order 125 Orion VII HEV Hybrid Electrics and 125 Orion VII CNGs.
The New Flyer D40i Invero visited our Jackie Gleason property recently, so my guess is that the NYCMTA is looking at the bus. But due to the push for "Clean Air" buses, I don't think we'll see any until a Hybrid or CNG version is developed, and the same can be said for the NovaBUS LFS.
Trevor Logan
Could someone give me a list of all of the bus depot that are close and eliminated.
depots Closed:
Brooklyn:
Crosstown-piant rebulder for buses only
Manhattan:
100th St-due to reopen in 2001
Staten Island:
Edgewater-eliminated
Queens
n/a
Bronx:
West Farms-Eliminated
Some More:
54th Street Depot - Eliminated
Coliseum Depot - Reopening as CNG in 2001
Walnut Depot - Eliminated
Hudson Depot - Soon to Be Eliminated (joking)
Renames:
146th Street to Mother Clara Hale
5th Avenue to Jackie Gleason
Trevor
Another rename:
Flushing to Casey Stengel
saw this while riding the B9 bus today back from Kings Plaza at Nostrand Avenue and Ave L stop. This is what the Bus Stop sign said:
B1
B9
The b1 doesnt even come down this way. was htis a sign from bay ridge that someone moved here? unless the b1 is moving and nobody said a word.
This is not a unusual anomaly with the DOB! I was at 39th St & 5th Avenue waiting for my aunt's B70 bus. At the bus stop I was at the B70 and B35 stop there, just for curiosity I looked up at the sign to my surprise I seen it saying B35 and B63. Now the B63 does run up 5th Avenue, BUT on 5th Avenue NOT on 39th Street. DOB or whoever the person that puts up these signs don't realize what they are doing or there is just some really dumb people up there!.
This is happening all over the city.
Trevor
I think it is just a mistake. All over Brooklyn, you will see signs that indicates two bus routes stop but one of them is usually taped over.
B46M Limited
Yep this was the case, I just got adventurous and climbed the pole and untaped the sign to see what mistake was made. Was fun!!!
Trevor
It's quite a bit of both. When they started putting up the new signs, many of them were either put where they didn't belong, the route numbers were wrong, the destinations were wrong, and on some of them, they were installed at the right intersection, but the location sign was VERY off.
On SI, signs for the s44 indicated that it went to the St. George Ferry, IN BOTH DIRECTIONS! on the s55, a sign indicating Arden Ave and Annadale Rd was installed at Annadale and Rye. And the s44 and s94 (the 94 being the limited version of the s44) had destinations of 'Yukon' and 'Staten Island Mall' alternately at different stops! Most bus riders have no idea what 'Yukon' is! (Mall-bound buses always have Yukon Ave / SI Mall as a destination.)
-Hank
And I've seen a sign for the M10 on Bway between Chambers and Warren or Warren and Murray. I'd think it was a typo for the M1, except, it said Battery Park City.
Several years ago when the older type of signs where installed, a group of signs along Metropolitan Ave. in Queens read S54 which was later corrected to Q54.
I remember bus 3960 had a sign that said B46 instead of Q46. A 4300 said S46 instead of Q46 also.
Q46#8357Gary
4159(?) says M15--CHELSEA PIERS
Bus stops, NOT Bus Destination sign. That is a whole another TA/DOT stupidity error!
Trevor
I can go you one better:
At Richmond Ave and Richmond Hill Rd, the destinatin for the s79 was posted as 'Bat Park City'
-Hank
Does it board the ferry to get there? :)
Actully the s79 connects with the R train at 86th st and 4th ave pass near Battery Park City when the same line stops at the Cortland St station
Rector Street is closer to BPC.
Now that's just... uh... I don't... uh...
Within NYC, a bus stop is legally a parking regulation, and thus falls under NYCDOT - in other words, blame Rudy!!
DOT's contractor has made errors like those, and worse, city-wide. Some signs have the right route(s) with wrong destination(s); others have correct destination(s) with erroneous route(s). Others are just plain crazy.
At Parsons & Willets Point Boulevards in Flushing, a sign lists the Q36. The Q36 runs from Jamaica to Floral Park and doesn't come within seven miles of this intersection.
At Hollis Court Boulevard & 192nd Street in Flushing, a high 'lollipop' sign dutifully lists the Q26 to Flushing, Q27 to Flushing and Q31 to Bayside. Problem is, it's the wrong side of the street, hence the opposite direction for all three lines!
I discovered this about two years ago, and have contacted the DOT and the local planning board ad nauseum. It's still there.
At Edgerton Boulevard & Wexford Terrace in Jamaica Estates, there's a "Bus Stop-No Standing" sign (no routes listed) pointing directly at a parking meter. No bus routes pass this corner, although it is a block away from the 179th Street subway/bus complex. At any given time, an enforcement agent can be seen ticketing any car parked at this meter for parking in a bus stop.
On Lexington Avenue, the M102 is marked as a limited but on 3rd, it isn't. The M98 is also marked local on Lex and 3rd (in theory it is because it only makes the "limited" stops like 79th and 86th and there is never a time it makes stops like 77th).
When did they eliminated the X61 bus route and I don't remember from what place it ran.
I believe it ran fro the BX..........
B46M Limited
The X61 was killed off during the late 1980's, due to insufficient riding. Until then, it operated out of Kingsbridge Depot, and was interlined with the Bx9.
In the Bronx, it paralleled the BxM3 from Broadway & 262nd Street via Broadway, Van Cortlandt Park South, Van Cortlandt Avenue West, Sedgwick Avenue, Fordham Road, and into the Deegan. In Manhattan, it (officially) used the FDR to lower Manhattan, then followed a counter-clockwise loop via Pearl, Park Row, Broadway, State, Water, Pearl.
In its last year or so, buses were banned from the FDR, so the X61 had to detour on First and Second Avenues - that added at least 30 minutes in each direction, which discouraged many riders.
Its function has been taken over by the BxM3 (Sedgwick-Midtown) and BxM18 (Riverdale-Downtown), with timed transfers at 23rd Street. The timed transfers are a neat way of effectively extending the BxM3, BxM4A, and BxM11 without actually sending more buses below 23rd Street.
Grumman 870 #100 made its debut on this line in Sep. 1978. It ran almost exclusively there in the beginning.
Joe C.
There is a local bus service that operates between the Boro Park and Midwood neighborhoods of Brooklyn operated by a Russian company. I don't know if they have a franchise from the city, but they have been in operation close to 20 years now. They have 25 passenger mini-buses with the name J. Hanukov Bus Service on the side. They charge the same fare as the TA and unlike the B 110 men and women do sit together. The route begins at Miamonides Medical Center on 49th St. and 10th Ave. It travels along 50th St. to 18th Ave. where it makes a left turn. It then travels east on 18th Ave. to Ocean Parkway where it makes a right turn on to the service road and travels south all the way to Avenue R., where it terminates. It is very convenient for those folks living on Ocean Parkway and saves them a walk to Coney Island Ave. or Macdonald Ave. The return route goes by way of the northbound service road of Ocean Parkway back to 18th Ave. and then via 49th St. back to 10th Ave.
there is another route that follows this way:
50th st to 18th av
18th av to 65th st
65th st to bay parkway
bay parkway to ceasers bay
return:
bay parkway to 65th st
65th st to 18th av
18th av to 49th st
49th st to mammoidies hospital
same company.
Yes, that is the Bensonhurst route operated by the same company.
KING SOLOMON
from 49 st ,,what is the route to Maimonides Hospital ,,is it 49 to 10 ,or Ft Hamilton,,and then back along 50
and is it Bay Parkway to Shore Parkway to 26 Av to Cropsey Av,,Please explain
I also need the B110 Route in DETAIL
Thanks
Steve
Does it U-turn at Avenue R,,or other,,please explain in detail
Thanks
Steve
When the Hanukov Bus reaches Ocean Parkway and Avenue R it makes a left turn on Ave. R, crosses Ocean Parkway and discharges the last of its passengers on the far side. It then turns around empty on one of the side streets and parks on the north side of Ave. R (cor. of Ocean Parkway) alongside the Mirrer Yeshiva. After a brief layover it makes a right turn on to the Ocean Parkway northbound service road and begins its run back to Miamonides Medical Center. It goes on 49th St. to 10th Avenue where it makes a left and terminates across the street from the main entrance to the hospital on 10th Avenue.
Do you know what side street it uses to turn around ,near r and Ocean parkway
Thank you
Steve
This i found interesting and i saw it on tonight's news. Protesters were outside the old 100th street depot complaining that the TA plans to expand it and put diesel buses into it.
I know the TA plans to rebulid the depot there, but are they putting diesel buses there? A driver told me that Electric buses would be at Manhattanville and Jackie Gleason is CNG. Whats the story with 100th St?
I'm in uproar AT the uproarers.
Get the point already people! THE NEW DIESEL PRODUCES THE SAME AMOUNT OF PARCTICLES AS CNG!!!!!
but the desiel particles are known carcenagenics(cause cancer) and the CNG particles are smaller and less toxic. Also the study that cited that the particular dischare was about equal was critically flawed
1. It was based on using emmisions equiptment not currently
available.
2. It was based on using a special designer desiel fuel that is
ALSO not currently available and will be VERY EXPENSIVE
Ahhhhhhhhh...... Thanks!
Smaller particles are worse, they can get into more places.
And it's carcinogenic.
These people think that the bus fumes are at the root of their problems, when it's their filthy and squalid living conditions.
Theyve only had diesel buses for how many up there prior to the closing??? What the hell are they complaining about??
The fact that the site had been a depot for decades (and therefore zoned "manufacturing") is irrelevant. As far as the community is concerned, there is NO DEPOT AT THIS PRESENT MINUTE, so any proposed depot constitutes a TOTALLY NEW land use - and thus is subject to the city's Uniform Land Use Review Procedure.
The same objection arose when 132nd Street/Manhattanville was being rebuilt.
Which is why the TA should never have left that site lie. As soon as the depot closed and all the busses were evacuated, they should have immediately brought in the work crews for demolition and immediate building.
i dont know whythey stalling to work on it, unless they not going to work on it. i mean, isn't it supposed to open in 2001? They better start soon.
If the site is zoned for manufacturing, then it can be used for anything EXCEPT residences, without any further review of anything at all. For that matter, a smelter could be built on the site, all they need is the proper environmental permits for what they'll be doing on-site (FDNY, EPA, and NYS/NYC DEP). These people are protesting that the depot will be able to handle more buses than the old depot.
The other issue, that of CNG buses, can't be done there, because the depot is too close to nearby buildings and has no open space. CNG is lighter than air, and can explode, as has been demonstrated several times (and for our purposes, noted from the situation at JG Depot) The 'best' option for these folks is NO depot, and that ain't gonna happen. So the remaining best (practical) option would be hybrid buses.
Oh, 100st was originally a trolleybarn.
-Hank
I heard that 100th Street was suppose to become CNG.
It was also worded to me that Manhattanvile, Jackie Gleason, and the New Coliseum would be the TA's CNG garages, while Mother Clara Hale becomes that TA's Hybrid Electric Depot.
What the Dilly?!?!?!?
Trevor
Perhaps some of you Queens people can help me with this one. Whenever I travel out to the Elmont area of Long Island, I frequently see TA buses using a section of the Cross Island Parkway near Hempstead Turnpike. I don't think that they are carrying passengers, but they might be deadheading either to or from their depot. I know that buses are not allowed on the Cross Island Parkway. Does the TA have special permission to use it ?
Run on and Run off from the QueensVillage Depot
The same arrangement does exist with the Belt Parkway and Ulmer Park Garage in Brooklyn
I believe NYCT buses are allowed on parkways. I also see them on the Cross Island near QV depot....I also see them on ther GCP. It is all for the cause of PRODUCTIVITY. I believe they are the Q46 Union Tpke. buses. They pick up passengers in the peak directiiion, then in the opposite direction they travel the GCP to the peak starting point. With no traffic, it takes less than 15 minutes to go to/from the Nassau Co. border.
Q46 Shuttles to Springfield Bl deadhead on the GCP back to Queens Blvd and also to Utopia Pkwy by SJU (my school) to pick up passengers to go to Queens Blvd in AM RUSH. Also, I see Jamaica Express Buses use the GCP and CIP to deadhead back home. QV also use the Cross Island Pkwy to deadhead back to QV Depot which is on 222St and 97 Ave.
Q46#8357Gary
NYC Transit has a permit to use the Cross Island and Grand Central Parkways.
That was a response to community complainers who didn't want empty buses on their streets. (Some didn't want ANY buses, others wanted all buses to be in service.)
BTW, the NYCDOT-issued parkway permit naturally ends at the City Line.
Q46's pulling out to the Long Island Jewish Hospital must exit at Little Neck Parkway and use the service road (into Marcus Avenue) to Lakeville Road. If they stay on the GCP into the Northern State, they risk being ticketed by the state police.
If anyone wants the Run on and Run offs via the CIP ,I have the Face Sheets,,,Here they are
===
Q30 Utopia and Horace Harding
Run on to Nassau Blvd via 97 av,222 st,Jamiaca Av,Enter NB CIP to Cit 30E to Horace Harding,Little Neck ,Nassau Blvd to stand at the Horace Harding Expwy
Run on from Nassau Blvd via Nassau Blv,HHE,enter Long IslanEx at 252 st to Exit 30 South CIP ,to Eixt 27West ,use service Road to Jamaica Av,222 st ,to Depot
Run on to Merrick and Archer via 97 Av,222 Jamaica ,Merrick Blvd,to stand at Archer
Run off from Archer via 168 st,Jamaica Av,222 to Depot
Run on to Horace Harding and Springfield via 97 av,222,Jamaica Av,Springfield Blv,to stand on H Harding
Run off from Horace Harding and Springfield via Springfield ,Jamaica 222 to Depot
--------------------------------------------------
Q43 Hillside Avenue
Run on to City Line via 97 Av,222 st,Jamiaca Av,enter Northbound CIP to Exit 28A,use service road to Hillside Av,E Willeston Av268 st,,to Stand on Hillside Av
Run off from CIty Line via Hillside Av,South on CIP to Exit 27W,use service Road to Jamaica Av,and 222 st
---------------------------------------------------
Q46 Union Turnpike
Run on Trips to 260 St and Little Neck Parkway via 97 Av,222 st,Jamaica Av,enter Northbound CIP ,use exit 28B ,244 st,80 Road,Commonwealth Blvd,Union Tpke Little Neck Pkw to stand at 260 St
Run on to LIJ Hospital
via 97 Av,222 St,Jamaica Av,Enter NB CIP ,use exit 28B,244 st,80 Road,COmmonwealth Blvd,Union TPke ,Lakeville Rd,LIJ Roadway around traffic circle to stand
Run On to Springfield Blvd via 97 Av,222 Jamaaica Av,Springfield Blvd ,Stronghurst Av,Union Tpke to Springfield Blvd
Run on to Kew Gardens via same as above to Springfeidl,then regular route
Run off Trips
from 260 and Little Neck via 260 st,Union Tpke,,Southbound CIP service Road,,CIP to exit 27 West,Cip Service Road ,Jamaica Av,222 st,to depot
from LIJ from Roadway,Lakeville Road,Union TPke and same as Above
From Springfield Blvd use Springfield Blvd,Jamaica Av,222 st to Depot
from Kew Gardens via Queens Blvd,Union Tpke,Springfield ,222 to Depot
The Q46 DHD Trips
from Springfield to Kew Gardens via Union Tpke,Grand Central Pwy,Service Road,GCP,to Queens Bvd Exit,to stand at Station
from Kew Gardens to 260 st
via Queens Blv,77 Av,Queens Blvd,South Service road, Grand Central Pwy,Exit Little Neck Pw to stand at 260 st
From Kew Gardens Station to LIJ Hospital via same as Above ,then 260 st,Union Tpke,regular route to LIJ Hospital Entrance
---------------------------------------------------
X68 Hillside Av to Manhattan Express
Run on to Hillsdie Av City Line
via 97 Av 222 St Jamaica Av,NB CIP to exit 28 A,Cross Island Pwy Service Road to Hillside Av,East willestin Av268 st,Stand on Hillside Av
Run on to 23 st and 1 Av via 97 Av,222,Jamaica Av,212 St,CLearview Expressway ,LIE,QUeens Tunnel,34 st,FDR Service Road,23 st,to 1 Av
Run off frmo City Line via Hillside Av,SB CIP Servcie Road about 200 ft,use Entrance to CIP ,eixt 27 W,CIP Service Road,Jamiaca Av,222 to Depot
Run off frmo 1 Av and 23 st via 1 Av,34 st,Tunnel ,LIEDHD from 57 and 3 Av via 3 Av,59 St,Bridge,Van Dam St,LIEDHD from 1 Av and 23 St via 1 Av,Tunnel ,LIE---------------------------------------------------
These are ALL OF the Authorized Trips,,VerBatim from the Face Sheets
These are the only Routes actually authorized to use the CIP ---NYC Transit Routes
There is a picture (black and white) of Greyhound bus #3201 in Friday's USA Today at page 4D in connection with Greyhound's $109 round trip to anywhere fare during March, April and May. The bus looks like a Renaissance coach, with the front modified somewhat. Could be the new G series that has been posted here earlier.
From Maimonides via 10 Av,50 s,16 Av,Dahill Road,Cortelyou Rd,Ocean Av ( or Ocean Pwy,Parkside Av) Empire Blvd,NY Av,Montgomery St,Kingston to Stan d at the Community Council before Crown St,
Return via Crown St,Brooklyn Av,Empire Blvd,same to 16 Av,49 St,10 Av 50 to Stand
Yes it is. I occassionally see ex TA RTS 3614 running.It has a yellow stripe on the side. They have a 3700 series also.
My old neighborhood. I will have to check it out one day...
b46M Limited
Someone asked some info about Erin Tours,,recently .
3 Routes
BP Beach 219 st to Manhattan
BK Av u and Flatbush to Manhattan
RB B73 St and Rockaway Bch Blvd to Manhattan
All routes use Flatbush Av,U ,Nostrand Av,Kings Hwy,Ocean Avenue,Cortelyou,Coney Island Av,Church Av,and similar Brooklyn routings as Command.
I do understand,,these routes no longer operate.
Sometimes, I'd see a sign like this one on a bus:
The route doesn't make limited stops, but the sign says otherwise. What's up with this?
I saw on a web site where the following buses are set for limited service, yet i believe they changed their minds about running limited service on the following routes(Note: all routes are from brooklyn)
B6
B49-though this should be limited during rush hrs
B68
same with the Q32. There was probably a decision to do this for the line, but the Ta changed their minds when it became apparent that the Q32 would not make time going limited(it still gets stuck on the bridge)
What website was this?
B46#8456Mike Limited
The B6 would be good for limited only on Bay Pkwy or Flatlands Av........
B68 and B49 I do not see anything wrong with those routes.....
B46M Limited
On NYC transit buses you can set two signs on a bus. The second sign is called a PR sign and only includes such signs as not in service, limited stops, next bus please, subway shuttle, promotional bus. A operator may not realize that he has set his sign on a normal route and also have a PR sign saying next bus please or limited stops.
There are route codes that have a limited sign included in the route description, such as the m1, m2, m101 limited signs.
Isn't "EXPRESS" one of those, too? I've seen buses display
NOT IN SERVICE
EXPRESS
(Sorry I don't have the sign now, I haven't made the GIF yet, this will have to do!)
I've also seen an S74 display "SUBWAY SHUTTLE." The only thing close to a subway on Staten Island is the SIRT!
How do you create the destination sign gifs? Would like to know.
Trevor Logan
Here are the signs I talked about.
I will put up a page on my web site describing how I made these and the other signs I've put on BusTalk soon. Once I do that, I'll post a link here on BusTalk.
I've seen a button on the sign control console that says "P/R." Does that activate these signs?
Also, What does it stand for? It definitely doesn't mean "Puerto Rico." Imagine if it did! One push of that button, and the bus and everyone in it is transported to Puerto Rico! A nice escape from the cold New York winters.
P/R="Public Relations"
David
On the M15, "LIMITED" is incorporated into thr M15 sign, but many drivers put up the P/R limited stops too. Why?
Best answer I can give is, "Because they do." It's not required.
David
I use to this when I drove the M101 limited and the M2 limited. Its just to make sure the public knows. And you know what? They still ask you "do you stop on 86St? is this bus express?"
BTW, when I was going in to the house I would put up NOT IN SERVICE and then pr NEXT BUS PLEASE.
The people would still wave for you to stop and knock on your door at red lights and run into the bus stops as I passed them
Oh well............
Take those GBL buses with the non-working signs and bring them to Manhattan...
It goes to show you how much people actually read the sign on the bus!
I've seen passengers get on an express bus before, dip their metrocard, don't even realize that they just paid $3, ring the bell and get off a few stops later! Talk about an expensive ride!
How did you create that sign. E-mail me: mtaboy2000@cs.com
Trevor
How did I do it? Click here to find out!
I have alot of info on the GM artics of Canada as I have bought the last one from Mississaga Transit, bus 5034. I will be driving it home to Southern california sometime next month and will be spending the night in Buffalo. This is a great chance for fellow fans to see one of these very unique buses in the USA. As you all must know, there never was any made for the US. Check out my website for pics of 5034 and my other buses.
What is the URL for your website?
Thanks.
website address of http://www.geocities.com/regtransit/
I can't fine this buses. Can you put a dirrect link to the bus so I can fine it.
Thank You.
Robert
go to http:www.geocities.com/regtransit/ and go to "buses you can rent" then go to where it says..............."FOR PICTURES OF EACH BUS" I have tons of pics of each bus so if there is any you like, let me know and I will trade you.
Thank it looks different. It dose not have an AC unit on it. I geust they don't need an AC unit up north.
Link to Previous charter of GM Artics.
This is a report of a fan trip held in June 1998. Many people missed this charter and requested that another one be held, so that's why this is being done, again.
Here's some photographs of these buses :
http://members.xoom.com/tts3/tts/hsrcharter.html
Contact gtabus@yahoo.com if you're interested in attending.
i saw #6065 on the M104 going to the UN this afternoon with a Mother Clara Hale sticker on it. I know this bus used to belong to that depot. did Amsterdam get a few orions from MCH, or is MCh giving up the Orions(at least the new ones, cause i have been seeing a lot of the old ones #186 and #241 for example running).
Whats the story?
Now Real Story, MCH and Amsterdam swapped one Orion MCH got 6066 while Amsterdam took 6065, why the change I don't know, its a stupid one. Also MCH took over most of Stengels 100 and 200 series Orions to replace the remaining RTSs at MCH to make MCH a all Orion Depot. But this may not last for long as MCH is slated to become the TA's ALL HYBRID DEPOT!
Trevor
if MCH got the 100 and 200 series CS, what is CS getting to cover the loss of missing buses?
New buses, I guess. All I ever see out of CS are Orions. I don't think they even have RTS's anymore there. Is this assumption correct?
the following depots within the 5 boroughs do not operate RTS buses anymore:
Staten Island:
Castleton
Yukon(has a few, but doesnt run them that often..less than 10)
Bklyn:
Jackie Gleason(operating #581-#610 ONLY) along with New Flyer,RTS still running.
Queens:
Casey Stangel
Manhattan/Bronx:
Amsterdam
Mother Clara Hale
Stengel runs the high number 200 series, 300 series, some 500 seriers and 600 series. NO RTSs are at Stengel.
Trevor Logan
#515-579 are at CS
505-580 ARE AT CS.
Q46#8357Gary
I know that road champs came out with flixible buses for differnt cities(and even a few that you have to be living in the city to get), but does anyone know if road champs will make buses for the yr 2000 lineup? I tried doing the website for it, but could not find it. If anyone knows what buses (if any) they are making (especially a Orion V or a RTS bus), let me know.
NY1 WWW Site reporting state of bus report was released today. It isnt on the Straphangers web site yet.
Straphangers' hench-reporter at Channel 7 just finished (6:15PM) his segment on the bus bunching study.
Rather than merely complain about bus bunching, Straphangers should push for enforcement of bus stops, priority lanes, and double-parking rules; more (or extended) bus priority lanes; increased road supervision; and other congestion mitigation measures.
Of course, Straphangers is never willing to be happy. This is the same group that, back in the 1980's, vigorously fought to stop the MTA's First Capital Program on the grounds that actually making improvements to the transit system would put their vital advocacy organization out of business.
Oh, well.
I noticed a few days ago while driving down the West Side Highway that the bus loading area below the Intrepid parking garage (alongside the SB side of the highway in the 40's) has a series of old bus stop signs. IIRC, these signs were phased out around the city in the early 1980's with the advent of the RTS (the image on the sign is of a New Look); I seem to remember them coexisting with the predecessor to the latest sign at some point around then. But they're still up by the Intrepid.
Yesterday I tried driving through the area to get some photos, but cars are shunted to the parking/loading area upstairs (which has the uncanny resemblance to an airport roadway) so I couldn't get to them. (The view from the highway itself is blocked by a wire mesh fence mounted to the Jersey barrier.) I'll try to find an excuse to get there by foot, but I'm only in NYC for another week so I might not get a chance. If anyone else reading this happens to find themselves in that neck of the woods, take a picture and post it on the web for posterity!
I shlepped over there today and snapped a picture. I'll put it up on my web page eventually. (Is there a preponderance of wheelchair passengers out there today? I had to wait for one to board on each of the two buses I rode. The first held everyone up to go just one stop; the second forced me to get off one stop early to avoid waiting for her to get off.)
I noticed two months ago that on 34 Street and 2nd Avenue, going crosstown westbound, there is an old bus sign. It is just past the bus shelter attached to a lamp post. I assume it is still there.
Clark Palicka
CEO TrAnSiTiNfO
CEO Clark's Place
I saw old bus stop signs in Queens.
• On 30th Avenue at 31st Street (Westbound Q18)* **
• On 31st Street at 30th Avenue (Northbound Q102)**
• On 31st Street at 30th Road (Northbound Q102)*
* I took a picture of this one
** Fishbowl sign
command bus use to have old signs(wth fishbowl on it) when signs were up on Filmore Ave. I think there is still one on Filmore Ave, 2 blocks from Flatbush Avenue near a school, though i do not know what school it is.
I am currently restoring bus 6342 from DC Transit and I need some close up photos to make sure I get the scheme right. If anyone has any pics of this bus particulary, I would love to see them. I also need the curtain signs for a GM from Wmata or DCT. I have the original assy., but need the curtains. The main things I need to know about the paint scheme is the style of the numbers when it was new and a close up of the stickers on the exterior including the red DCTransit decal. Will be glad to trade pics for any DCTransit buses
corgi makes a gm bus that has the original design from dc transit. you can see a pci of it at the following address:
www.diecastdirect.com
I have the corgi but the colors are not exactly correct. Thats why I needed the pics to compare. There is still some areas of the bus that you can peel the Riverside Transit Agency and NYCTA colors off and the original colors are still there but are faded.
2 topics:
First Metro Apple Express - All their equipment was in the Red & Tan livery. Was that a subsidiary of R&T? I seem to remeber that they had NJ and not NY plates. IIRC they had a contracted route in Downtown Bklyn that ran from Court St. to Main Street (near the base of the Manhattan Bridge) The cardboard sign in the window said Dept. of Labor and was to shuttle employees and claimants from Downtown to the Unemployment office.
Second Domenico Buses. In the mid 70's I worked in Midtown with a fellow that lived on Staten Island. He used to take Domenico Bus on an express route that went over the Goethals Bridge, up the Tpke and thru the Lincoln tunnel in the AM and reverse in PM. The drivers were freelancers looking for extra money. The bus was never late. It was either on time, or didn't show for lack of a driver. Is this route still in existence? If not, when did it end? Was Domenico taken over by Academy? If not, what became of it?
f/k/a Hart Bus
Metro Apple Express was originally started as a subsidiary of Red & Tan , utilizing that carrier's excess equipment that was retired from the NJ lines. The line was then purchased from the Capitani family, owners of Red & Tan by the partnership of W.J. (Pat) Condren and John Gibbons, owner of Erin Tours. The 2 partners split up shortly before the demise of the company.
Domenico Bus Service was originally started in Bayonne, N.J. Thomas
DiDomenico former Mayor of Bayonne and Herman (Hymie) Drogin were partners in Boulevard Transit Lines Inc. Both partners ran individual charter operations, Drogin Bus Co. and Domenico Bus Service. When Thomas retired from the business his son Anthony (Sonny) Domenico built up Domenico Bus Service into a lucrative charter business. This became even more profitable when his brother, Vincent DiDomenico started Domenico Tours with regularly scheduled tours to Miami Beach. Two years before the opening of the VZ Bridge, Sonny Domenico applied to the I.C.C. and was granted authority to run a line from the Port Authority to Staten Island Via N.J. The line was very profitable for many years. Then family feuds started to take over. Vincent decided to by his own buses under the Domenico Tours name. Sonny went into the hospital for bypass surgery and during that time his brother in law Bobby Greaves who was married to his sister Claire Di Domenico took control of Domenico Bus Service and voted Sonny out of the company. When Sonny came out of the hospital he opened a new company called Carol Coach (named for his wife), and started to compete with his brother in law. The lines of both companies were eventually taken over by Academy. Vincent went
bankrupt during that time and his buses were also taken over by Academy. Sonny retired and Bobby Greaves now works for Academy.
Domenico for a time did business as 'Staten Island Commuter'. The buses were siezed by the city marshall one morning for non-payment of taxes, and the company vanished overnight.
-Hank
Yes, that is true. It occurred under the stewardship of Bobby Greaves when the company was already starting to go down hill. They were never able to qualify for the subsidy buses operated by other companies, because they did not want to give up the charters. The equipment was getting old and they could not afford to replace it. They also were facing increasing competition from all the new Van & gypsy bus services that were running over their routes, as well as from Academy who were using the subsidized buses.
Academy routes (in fact, no private routes) are subsidized on Staten Island. Academy buses, however, may have been purchased by NJT or the Port Authority, but not specifically for use on Staten Island. The last subsidized routes ended in 1980 (I'm too young to recall)
-Hank
There is another regularly scheduled mini-bus Russian owned transit operation in Brooklyn that has been in existance for at least the past 7 years that I know of. It is the Natan B Transportation Co. and operates between Boro Park and Canarsie. It is not a religious line like the B 110 but more like the Hanukov Bus where men and women do sit together. It too begins at Miamonides Medical Center on 49th St. and 10th Ave. and follows the exact route of the B 11 to and along Avenue J. From there it follows the route of the B 6 along Flatlands Ave. I believe that it terminates at Pennsylvania Ave. near Starett City but I am not certain of that. It operates on a 30 minute schedule and charges the same fare as the TA.
Can anyone verify the Penn Av Terminal ,etc
Thanks
Steve
If you go down the command bus line B-100 and BM3 line, there are no signs to say where the bus stops. This is also true for part of the X29 line on Coney Island Av. Does the TA not put bus stops up for this lne, or do they assume that customers know where it stops?
NYCDOT is responsible for bus stop signs in all five boroughs, on all routes, no matter who operates them.
David
Domenico had a very unusual bus on its route. It used to operate on the Arden Ave. route. It was a GMC SD# 5302 49 passenger recliner. What was odd about the bus was the front entry door. Instead of the air operated double doors standard for that model, it had a manual operated single door like the GMC PD#4903. I later found out that that particular coach was purchased from Voyageur Provincial of Quebec
where it ran regular service in the late 1960s between Montreal and Ste. Agathe des Monts in the Laurentian Mountains. Those particular models wre only built for the Canadian and not the USA market.
That wasn't the only such bus at Domenico. There were a bunch of Domenico pictures posted at alt.binaries.pictures.vehicles last week and Domenico bus 513 was another.
That "sedan" style door was operated by a handle and connecting rod, exactly like on a parlor-type coach. As another poster mentioned, it was only put on buses built in Canada, and it was a special order. Another company that had a bunchof them was Canada Coach Company; most of their units were SDM4501/4502 models (35-footers).
It sure is a "shock" to see one for the first time -- especially if the door fits nice and flush, makes you wonder how people get in and out!!
I am not at all familiar with that web site that you mentioned where the bus pictures are displayed. Please give me the exact address starting with the www so I can visit it for myself THANK YOU
KING SOLOMON
The buses in question were numbered 509 to 514 and were 1968 S8M5303A's 020-025. They were purchased in 1975 from Walters Transit Corp where they were numbered 832 to 837. If anyone has a delivery list they can confirm if they were new with Walters Transit or if they came from Canada. I can confirm that they all had sedan doors.
Mike, Do you remember 2 buses in the Domenico fleet B-18 & B-19. They were 35 foot GMC Fishbowls (45 Pax) with no A/C and low back non reclining seats. They had automatic transmissions and could not go over 50 MPH. Sonny once stuck me with B-18 for one of my one day tours to Washington DC. It took forever to get there and the people were furious. He also tried to send B-19 on a ski trip to Mt. Snow, Vermont and the driver refused to take it.
B-18 and B-19 were SDH4502s and were bought for the Domenico portion of Boulevard Transit Lines. Later on, when the Drogin/Domenico partnership broke up, they went into the Domenico fleet as 76 and 77.
According to the GM production lists, they were originally delivered to Carey Transportation at JFK Airport in 3/68, where they were numbered 805-810.
S8M5303A 006 and 007 were delivered to Walters as 830 and 831 in 4/68.
Looks like Walters got the ones above from Carey, fleet numbers are consecutive.
That's not a web site. It's a Usenet group. You can access them through your ISPs news server with Outlook Express or Netscape Composer?; alternately you can see them on the web at Deja.com. Be warned that Deja cuts some binary files, and that you may need a decodeing program to see any of the files.
-Hank
When I was at Smith Haven Mall today I noticed what looked like a brand new Orion bus operating for Suffolk transit. Couldn't catch
the number, but it did look like an Orion.
Is Suffolk Transit replacing it's mostly Gillig and Flxible fleet with Orion buses?
This is what I've been seeing for the past few days on Vets Highway in the Bohemia area. These are new Orions with a new paint scheme. I've seen 9917 and 9919 so far. Look for the Orion emblem on the front of the bus.
if u can get a picture of this bus, please send it to me.
I spotted 9922 passing through Suffolk County Community College today.
Saw one of the NYBS Orions which were transferred to Green Bus this morning heading east on Sunrise Highway in Lynbrook. It was still painted in the NYBS colors but had OPERATER GREEN BUS LINES. Could not see a bus number. Guess it was going to Atlantic?
There will be a total of 4 1-door Suburban Orions that are coming to GBL. I believe 3 are at GBL now as we speak. 4 MCI Classics have left GBL to go to NYBS: 703-704, 717-718. Anybody been to NYBS to see how these buses are coming about? The bus Barry saw was definitely going to Atlantic Diesel, where else could it go if it was heading EAST on Sunrise Hwy? Like I said in an ealrier post, I think the numbers will range from 5551-5554 because I think the 6 Orions from QS are gonna go over to GBL and will be numbered from 5545-5550. BTW: I've asked my sources if there was ever a bus# 5500 bus at GBL. He said NO. The roster starts at 5501. Oh speaking of 5501, I rode on her yesterday on the Q60 and her talking system was disabled. The only thing that was working was the inner display. The destination signs were busted. Also, heard there's a manual to make the bus say other messages such as do not talk to operator while bus is in operation, please step to the rear of the bus and no smoking. 5502 doesn't talk either only date and time are displayed on the inside. Was on 5521 also and boy does is this bus a lunk of junk?! 4 seats were slashed 1 severely the blue material was literlaay off all you saw was the inner cushion. It's in the right rear of the bus if anybody wants to board it just for the heck of it. Also she makes an annoying knocking sound when she's moving. And of course, how could we forget this ongoing problem at GBL: the destination sign was busted. My question is: What happened to these buses? 1 more thing about GBL: Bus 5504 will soon have a voice recorderm device for drivers to record and play back and forth their stops as they go to and from their destinations. Don't think this will last on the GBL buses for too long. I do not work for MTA/DOT, I'm just your normal everyday passsenger who is a bus buff ;)
Q46#8357Gary
PS They brought 5501 to AD and it has been there for quite some time- couldn't they fix the destination sign there also? And last I knew you couldn't see a thing out of her left rear window. Wasn't in back to see if that's still there now.
No, The destination sign is a totally different contract.
Trevor
{The destination signs were busted ...]
They're NOT Luminator like the rest of the Orions
[4 seats were slashed ...]
Some seats in the six QSC sent to Green had been slashed, it's going to be a problem for them until they're replaced.
Mr t__:^)
The times I have to "Ride the Green Lines", I always find it a depressing experience. Buses so dirty that you are hesitant to touch anything or sit anywhere with a unique GBL smell, surly drivers, overcrowding, and the inability to reach someone to voice your concerns makes me wonder why and how they continue to operate. If these conditions are really out of the hands of the operators to correct and it really comes back to DOT, then shouldn't we as taxpayers, and ultimately the poor chaps who fund the service, ask for a better return on our investment? I find it amazing how quickly something new arrives at the GBL property and how quickly they go to pot. I would be hard pressed to name 10 of the WMATA Orions at GBL that are in passable shape, i.e., working destination signs, clean interiors, nothing shuddering, etc. If they were TA buses, you know they would be in far better shape. Perhaps their 3-year make over should have been done in 1998 :-)
Are the one door Orions going to make the rounds to other DOT operators, or are they staying at GBL? In the TA spirit, wouldn't it make sense to have one operator on one type of coach, in the sense that Queens Surface seems to be migrating to Orions, so wouldn't those one door Orions make sense at QSC, since they also run a fair amount of express bus service? For that matter, what about the runt of the DOT services, Jamaica Buses? Isn't it about time those Grumman's, albeit in great shape, get replaced?
i can name only one of the orions at GBL that work, #5540 which i saw in the city tuesday. this should be the roster at the 4 divisions:
GBL-RTS
QS-ORIONS/MCI
Triboro-GMC RTS/ORION
Jamaica-GMC RTS/Grumman
Command-NOVABUS/ORION
they should have sended the 4 orion one door buses to command instead because command keeps the buses in better condition. Why doesnt Triboro keep their orions in better condition(scrthces on windows, orions on local lines).
Also, if Green is so bad on buses, why keep running buses from 1979 that are antique(#300 and #1000 series). QS and Jamaica are much better buses then any of them.
5502-5503, 5506, 5509, 5513, 5520, 5529-5531, 5538, 5542 have signs that work also.
Q46#8357Gary
[In the TA spirit, wouldn't it make sense to have one operator on one type of coach, in the sense that Queens Surface seems to be migrating to Orions, so wouldn't those one door Orions make sense at QSC, since they also run a fair amount of express bus service?]
The MCIs are doing just fine here, thank you ... seriously I think we would prefer some of the fine express coaches that the TA has when/if the MCI ever get worn out. And since DOT is now considering buying some, we'll just have to wait.
Disclaimer: This is not an official comment, just a personal opinion.
Mr t__:^)
I agree that the TA method of one model per garage makes sense, so to my mind these moves actually have a form of logic. NYBS seems to be predominantly MCI Classic suburban, so the MCI transfers make sense on that score. QSC is heavily Orion CNG, while GBL is Orion diesel. I believe the NYBS Orions are also diesel, not CNG, and the six QSC Orions are from the same litter as the 44 GBL Orions, so combining all the diesel Orions at GBL is probably closer in practice to what you suggest. Taking your suggestion one step further (and as a longtime TCC QM24W rider I never thought I'd suggest this) why not take the Orion CNG suburbans away from TCC, and replace them with a 70/30 split of QSC MCIs & TMC RTS-06(gray cloth seat models) and let TCC use the RTS' in express service and local service, and not waste the Orion suburbans on local runs where they're getting vandalized. Downside to this suggestion...QSC will be so heavily CNG that any fueling problems like Jackie Gleason's would have an extremely adverse service impact.
"Are the one door Orions going to make the rounds to other DOT operators, or are they staying at GBL? In the TA spirit, wouldn't it make sense to have one operator on one type of coach, in the sense that Queens Surface seems to be migrating to Orions, so wouldn't those one door Orions make sense at QSC, since they also run a fair amount of express bus service?"
Has anyone ever noticed that some bus stop signs have numbers that cover up older numbers? I remember seeing one sign on Parsons Boulevard that indicates that the Q25 and the Q39 stop there! The Q39 doesn't even come close to stopping there! What's up with these signs?
the people who makes these sign obviously do not live anywhere where they are putting up the signs. if they did, there would not be as many mistakes as we have been posting. how do they fiugure out what number to put on it, pick a number out of random??
As indicated earlie, bus stops are the regulatory responsiblity of NYCDOT, which hires a contractor to do the installation.
Some mistakes are careless, like misreading/miswriting a "4" as a "9"; others take some effort, such as:
* "QM24 Riverdale" (right route, wrong destination)
* "M100 East Midtown" and "Bx7 Upper West Side" at Broadway & 110th (right destinations, routes are M104 and M60)
A couple of bus stop signs I've seen:
Northbound Parsons & 77 Av
Q25
Q34
Q65A
Northbound Parsons & 79 Av
B25
439
How many of you remember the days when Jamaica Bus used to be in the charter business. I am going back 30 years or more. A women by the name of Florence Fitzgibbon ran the charter department. At that time Jamaica ran 2 GMC PD4104s (45 Pax no Lav), and 5 GMC SD 5302 Suburbans (49 Pax recliners).. They later acquired the first stick shift Flxible Suburbans. Besides their coaches they used to push out a large amount of 53 Pax GMC New Look Transit buses on weekends as far as Washington DC. Many people preferred these transit buses to the older coaches because they had good air conditioners,& picture windows. They did not mind the transit type seats or having to pile the luggage on the back seats.
KING SOLOMON
I remember taking JBL charters for Jewish Youth Group Excursions and once waiting at Queens Blvd / Woodhaven on a Sun. Morning and the bus showed up 45 late. I was to young to be involved with the actual chartering since I wasn't old enough to sign contracts.
I seem to remeber that CTC also did charter work for schools.
What do the letters CTC stand for ? Perhaps you mean Queens Transit Corp. which is now Queens Surface. They had 2 GMC PD 4104s in their fleet, but they would charter mostly Transits. Their charter manager was Tom Golia.
Mapleton Bus Company was the ICC carrier that provided the rights to go out of state for Jamaica Bus Company. The Flxibles and the SDM 5302s carried that name on their legal lettering. Also, Jamaica Buses had some TDM5108s in their fleet for race track and charter service, later sold to Super Service Bus Co/Blue and Grey Transit for their own 4th Ave/Atlantic Ave - Roosevelt Raceway/Yonkers Raceway service.
Yes Mike I remember that very well. Also the Mapleton ICC rights were very limited. They did not include NY to NY via New Jersey. According to ICC law you could only enter Canada if you had ICC rights to one of the states bordering on it. Consequently when groups chartered Jamaica buses to Montreal the drivers had to detour into Vermont (which Mapleton had the rights into) before crossing the border into Canada. That would add over an hour to the trip. Jamaica never told the customers about this before the charter. I remember having a 5 bus move to Montreal one Labor Day weekend. I had 3 DeCamp buses and 2 Jamaica buses on the move. The Jamaica drivers refused to follow the Decamp drivers who were in the lead across the border from NY. They woke up Ronnie O'Toole who was the charter manager for Decamp in the middle of the night and he offered to cover the Jamaica buses under his ICC rights. However when the Jamaica drivers called Florence Fitzgibbon (their charter manager) she refused O'Toole's offer and made her drivers go through Vermont. Decamp would not let their drivers go through Vermont because they did not want to add extra mileage to the trip. As a result the group was split up with 98 people arriving in Montreal 90 minutes late. Needless to say I lost that account.
CTC is actually TCC - Triboro Coach Corporation. I don't know why people refer to is as CTC because it's not Coach Triboro Corporation. It's Triboro Coach Corporation, TCC DARN IT!
Trevor
Rhetorical FYI:
I think the cTc refernce is from their logo on the front of the buses that have them. The 'T' is prominently in the middle, and I too have wondered why it isn't commonly referred to as TCC.
You are correct. Look at Triboro's website for their logo The "T" is larger and between the 2 c's.
I believe their website is www.triboro.com or triborocoach.com. You can also link to it from Green Bus Lines and Command.
He's using CTC for Triboro Coach Co. On their logo, they have a large 'T' with the smaller 'c's to each side.
-Hank
I remember this well. I was pretty young, but I lived near to the Bronx Zoo and I used to see those awesome Flxibles (111C-D51) quite often. I also saw them out of state pretty often too.
Wayne
Also Great Adventure in NJ was a heavy weekend dest. About 1982 i called JBL and asked about a charter to Rhode Island and was told they dont go that far.
That was because their Mapleton Bus ICC rights did not cover Rhode Island. They could only go to points in NJ, VT. MASS. CONN., PA. DC & VA. They could also go to points in New York State but not by way of Route 17 NJ. They had to go up the Major Deegan to the Thruway and acrooss the Tappan Zee. They could go to points in Canada only through border crossings in Vermont. They could take you to Niagara Falls but only the New York side. They could not cross the Rainbow Bridge to the Canadian side.
Back during the 1970's I saw a whole convoy of Jamaica Buses and Queens Transit Buses heading upstate on Route 17. I can't recall the reason why they were chartered but I do remember I did hear about it on the news.
That probably would have been the funeral of the Old Satmar Rebbe, head of the famous Hasidic dynasty. The time frame seems about right.
This took place during the very early 70's. Somehow an outing for inner city kids comes to mind though I still might be wrong.
You can still charter a bus from most of the "privates" and if you hurry it might be one of the Flxibles. Queens Surface doesn't have any right now, our last group was some former Bridgeports.
Mr t__:^)
Back around 1970, I was in Washington DC as a kid and saw a Jamaica Flexible cruise right past me. It looked so odd to see their equipment in a city so far away.
But late in the day, I happened on a parking lot full of buses from New York including Pelham Parkway Express, New York Bus Service, Intercounty Transit, Mid Island Coach, De Camp, Riverdale Transit and Liberty Lines.
This was back in the time of Nixon and all the massive demonstrations he spawned. For bus watchers - you were as likely as not to see buses from your own home town in Washington DC. Jamaica bus was often well represented in the parking lots.
FWIW - it seemed back then that SDM Fishbowls were the most common buses in use for trips to Washington. It seemed like there were thousands of them around whenever the protests were on.
The was also a group of coaches from NYC that visited the World's Fair in Atlanta in 1996. They ran them and ran them and ran them. They limped back home and needed a lot of TLC before we could put them back in service :-(
Mr t
Yes, I remember those 1996 NYCT(A) Nova RTS in Atlanta for the Olympics during the summer of 1996. Those (brand new) buses went from the factory to Atlanta. I'm pretty sure that's a move that only NYCT would make. Several of those at JAM depot servered in Atlanta and were missing fleet numbers/NYCT logos for a long time. Buses from many agencies went to Atlanta, but they seemed to always be using those new NYCT buses.
Wayne
Many DOT buses went as well. I remember seeing some Queens Surface coaches with gold plaques affixed near the front door mentioning the 'Olympic Transportation System' or something like that. I've also seen NYCT buses lined up at Yukon with 'Olympic/Village' on the destination signs.
-Hank
While i was driving on Morris Park Av & i got to White Plain Av, i saw New Flyer Articulated #5256 on Bx22 waiting for light & other day i saw #5254 on Bx5 at West Farms Rd. I never thought they going to put Articulated Buses on Bx22 & Bx5. So are they going to put only Articulated Buses on Bx22 & Bx5 soon?
Peace Out
David Justiniano
They've been running artics on those lines spuradically. I've also ridden artics on the Bx39 and the Bx40/42. And once on the Bx28!
Trevor
I know of three ways to signal the driver to stop:
1. push-button (different styles)
2. push-tape
3. pull-cord
Which is the best way to signal the driver? I would like answers from two perspectives: the rider and the operators/maintainers of the bus.
To this day, I've only seen the tapes.
JG CNGLFs have push buttons on the handles........
B46M Limited
What handles?
I think he's talking about the vertical poles that run from the horizontal pole to the seat. There are pushbuttons on those. Look at any MTA local bus timetable dated Fall 1999 or later, and you'll see 2 of them in the picture of the bus. They're attached to the poles.
Thats exactly what I am talking about............
B46M Limited
I believe the new CNG Orion transit buses with Queens Surface (400's and a few 300's) have pull cords. I don't remember whether the express CNG's (500's) do also.
They do.
In the New York City area (Local routes, excluding Jamaica & Command. I haven't been on any of those routes):
Tapes:
NYCT: All RTS and Orions
Triboro: RTS 600's-700's
Green: RTS 200's, 600's, 1000's
QSC: none
Cords:
NYCT: none
Triboro: 1100's, 2000's, 2100's, 2800's, 3000's
Green: 700's, 1100's, 5500's
QSC: All
Buttons:
NYCT: 800's (on vertical poles)
Triboro: 3000's (Above rear door)
Green: 5000's (on either side of rear door)
QSC: Orion 300's, 400's, 500's (Above rear door), 700's (on either side of rear door)
Those are all I know of. Feel free to make corrections & additions.
Lessee...All the MCI classics I've ever been on, and the few new DOT Orions, have pull-cords. NYCT's MCIs have push-buttons on the overhead consoles at each seat, and a touch-tape on the lift door. All other NYCT buses, with the exception of the C40LFs, have touch-tapes only.
-Hank
995: Cords & Buttons
I haven't been on that bus. Seen it on the Q32, but never been on it.
It's in the bronx now, isn't it?
MTA 995= CORDS/BUTTONS
Now that everything else I had to say was said:
Command: Only the RTS from the mid 80s have tapes, everthing else is cords, even the new Orions.
As a rider, I find pull cords most natural. Unfortuantely, pull cords are often out of reach to standees and sometimes to sitees as well. The low-floors on the Champaign-Urbana Mass Transit District have an interesting solution to the second problem, where in the front of the bus the cord is too high for sitting passengers to reach: additional cords are attached to the main cords and strung down the vertical spaces between windows. There's also a single button by the back door (on a pole, not above the door as on Fishbowls).
Out here in San Jose, CA, all VTA buses use horizontal pull-cords with vertical pull-cords between windows. It took me by surprise when I first moved here from NYC, and half the time I end up asking for a transfer forgetting that it's either a single ride or day pass...
ian
This reminds me of something that I overheard on a Q25 (Orion CNG #403) to Jamaica today. These two girls wer getting ready to get off. One girl tells the other sitting by the window to pull the cord. She hesitated. Just as she was raising her hand to pull the cord, fingers barely reaching it, someone else pulls another cord to signal the driver. They then start talking about what happened to the "strips [tapes]." I would have told them that QS doesn't run buses with tapes anymore, (24-274 had them, but they retired) but they got off before I could say anything.
While going to and from school along Union Tpke, I've seen the following MCI Classics with "SPECIAL" signs in front:
902 907 916 926 943 947 949 951 953 954
Why is this?
Q46#8357Gary
Years ago, before the UMTA restrictions, many operators sent their Transit buses over the road. These included Jamaica, Schenck, Queens Transit and Bee Line of Nassau County which was later taken over by the MTA. They were very good on runs like Washington DC where the road is mostly flat and there are no hills. However, when you ran them up to the Catskills on the Route 17 Quickway you were asking for trouble. They could not pull the Wurtsboro hills without turning off the air conditioner and even then just barely. Also, you could not turn the AC back on while the bus was in motion or you would snap the shaft. You had to pull over to the side of the road and come to a complete stop before turning the AC back on.
It is really amazing how all that has changed. As observers we could see some interesting equipment running in the strangest places. WMATA was a good one for sending GM's & Flx's out on the road. During the NY World's Fair, it was interesting to see the mix of over the road, suburban and transit vehicles side by side. Same was true about many beaches and other attractions. Once about 1965, in Bear Mountain, NY, in the bus lot, was a Mack C45GT, from NJ. It stands out so distinctly
as I recall it having a GM builder's plate on front. Of course, my camera was home.
Joe Caronetti
Joe, In those days you could send out any type of bus on a charter and get away with it. The late Frank Tedesco, founder of Academy was famous for this. He had a brand new Transit bus (GMC new look 53 passenger) in 1967 that operated a transit route on the #22 line from Hoboken to Palisades Park, N.J. I remember it was Bus #242 and was painted in the light green NJT livery. Every weekend from Memorial Day thru Labor Day that bus would run from Corona, Queens to Niagara Falls, Canada for a Spanish tour operator. The bus was governed down and could not do more than 40 MPH with the acclerator all the way to the floor. It took 12 hours to run the entire lengh of the Thruway. The bus left Corona every Friday night at 7 PM with a full load and was crossing the Rainbow Bridge at 7 AM Saturday morning. But it made $1,500 for him every weekend and in those days that was good money especially for a Transit bus.
That rule prohiting charters is stupid. It would be great if you could rent a transit bus for charter within the city. Good source of OT and tips for drivers as well.
I agree. As charter manager for a coach company in Brooklyn with a fleet of 30 buses, I am often overbooked by at least 20 buses on busy Saturdays & Sundays especially in the summer. I have often had to bring in out of town buses from as far away as Quebec to fill my needs. It would make my job so much easier if I could go to the nearest TA garage and use all those express coaches that are sitting idle on weekends.
KING SOLOMON
Transit agencies can charter if they are subcontracted to add cappacity to a private operator or if no private operator is willing and able to do the work.
That might be the case in other areas of the country, but not in the NYC metropolitan area. I am the charter manager for a 30 coach operation based in Brooklyn. I have tried upon numerous ocassions to obtain buses from the TA, private DOT operators, and NJT when I am overbooked. The answer is always the same. We do not do charters.
THere was a 'legal notice' in the paper a few months ago about this. Apparently, they will only provide a bus if an accessible vehicle is needed and unavailable privately.
-Hak
do you know why he kept the bus governed to 40 mph?... didn't the people complain on the trips?... wasn't the bus moving at such a slow speed on the thruway subject to getting a ticket for going too slow?....
The gear ratio on the rear end was designed for city street use, not for highway speeds. The MINIMUM speed limit on the Thruway is 40MPH. The tour operator Excursiones Panamericanos was happy to get 53 passengers to Niagara Falls in a brand new picture window bus with a cold air conditioner for the cheapest price possible. The fact that it was a slow ride and that the passengers had to sit on un-padded transit seats (some facing sideways) was not his major concern. These were poor immigrant Hispanic people, and the buses that they were used to riding on in their native countries were probably 20 year old school buses with no air conditioning. To them this was luxury. Also, not being familiar with U.S. geography they probably had no idea of how long the trip was supposed to take.
I have read the state of the buses report and now have a better reason to say the artics don't belong where the MTA is running them in Manhattan. The M86 is the most on-time route. WHY DOES IT NEED ARTICS??? The M101 is the had the greatest decline in on-time performance. They belong there. The M66 is the most regular route. The M15 had the biggest decline AND is the most used route in the city. I don't see any 60 foot buses coming along 1st or 2nd Avenue. Do you?
ARTICS BELONG ON NORTH-SOUTH ROUTES, NOT CROSSTOWNS. THE STRAPHANGERS CAMPAIGN HAS ACTUALLY MADE A GOOD FINDING (who cares about pay phones in subway stations. I never use them in NYC)!
I could not agree with you more! I find the Artics on the M86 a real problem. I took this route last week and I missed on M86 on my way down Lexington Avenue and then another one arrived and because there was no one at the stop that one pulled off and left an elderly woman there. 5 minutes passed and 2 M86 buses came at the same time, of which they were both Artics(1021 & 1068). The elderly woman said that there were 3 buses in front of these 2 which were all Artics and none of them really stoped at Lexington to even wait to try to make time! They all left at the same time. This line does not need artics! I would love for the M15 and M101/102 to have them. The only Crosstown line that could really use them is the M14 which has a very heavy ridership level and declining service. Supposedly the M15 is getting Artic service when the rest of the D60 order for 2000 comes in, we will see.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
I don't understand what your complaint has to do with artics.
I don't think artics are a good idea on north-south Manhattan routes, much as they'd be useful. How often do you find yourself on a north-south bus that contributes to gridlock by sticking out into the cross street because some idiot (or another bus) is blocking the bus stop? The problem would be much worse with artics. This isn't as much of a problem on crosstown routes as east-west blocks are long and many crosstown bus stops are on the near side of the intersection.
As for the M79 and M86, indeed they're generally quite reliable (although I distinctly recall a rush hour half-hour wait for the M79 -- granted, I only waited twenty minutes, but there was already a large mob waiting when I got there), but they also get more than their share of overcrowding. (There aren't even any decent alternate routes -- parallel routes are 7-10 blocks away and the subway isn't an option unless you prefer going down to 42nd Street or up to the Bronx just to get across town.) More service on the standard buses would be ideal, but artics are a way to bring improved service without increasing labor costs.
My complaint is that the M79/86 are fine with 40 foot coaches. The current schedule they are on now the bus bunching seems to be worse than before and when I look at the way these buses come together and the number of people that are on each bus it tells me that the Artics don't need to be on these lines. The schedule on the M86 for example does not seem to be different now that the artics are running on this line. It doesn't make sense to a bus of that size on the same time schedule of a bus 20 feet shorter. Now as for the North & South lines, only the M15, M101/102, and The M4/5 lines should have the Artics, not all of the lines that run North & South. I understand what you are saying about the gridlock and the blocked Bus Stop situation, but take a look at 86th Street when 2 or 3 artics pull up to a stop and what kind of traffic congestion that causes.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
The articulated buses entered service on the M86 between picks, so the schedule currently in place is designed for 40-footers. The Spring Pick will reflect the presence of the artics.
David
I was going to said the same thing like David said & they are currently using 40-foots schedule. The next pick will be Mid-April i think & they will be using 60-foots schedule on M79 & M86. Also Articulated Buses can't used for Express Line. I believe Articulated buses only used for crowding line like M15,M23,M79,M86 & M101/102/103. Another day i saw Articulated Buses on Bx5 & Bx22 because i know these line alway crowding on rush hour.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
David thank you for your answer as well. Any particular reason why the Artics can't be used on Express lines? Besides the obvious reason of the seats. Thanks in advance.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Try putting a 60-foot bus on the FDR.
Artics are not ideally suited for high-speed expressway trips (yes, I know they're used that way in Chicago). The MCI 45-footers seat 57 passengers and are working out well in express service.
David
That explains why the M86 runs the way it does! Thank you for that answer, it clarified what I was thinking.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
The M4 and 5? The M4 gets low floor hybrids to encourage travel to Penn Station. I never take the M4 to/from there because how do you get a suitcase on to the bus?
On the afternoon Monday February 21, Washington's Birthday, I waited a half-hour from 12:30 to 1:00 for a westbound M79 at Lexington Avenue. During that time, not a single M79 passed by eastbound. Turns out it was packed with people going to the new Planetarium which I figured would be closed on a Monday. Nonetheless, most of the passengers bailed out at CPW. When we turned left on Columbus, I could see FOUR other Artics bumper-to-bumper behind us.
At the risk of offending some Uptowners, it seems that a lot of people will ride a crosstown bus between Broadway and Columbus, Madison and Lexington, or Lexington and 2nd!! These are invariably the people who complain loudest about waiting a long time for a bus, when in fact they could have walked faster!
My personal observation record of sheer gall was a woman who held up an M14 for several minutes at 2nd Avenue boarding with an unfolded stroller and shopping cart.
She got off at 1st Avenue.
here is where the articulated buses should go in manhattan. this is based on street size and maneuverbility:
M14
M23
M42
M79
M86
M96
M104(only if they move to another depot, because amsterdam cant hanlde them)
routes such as M1-M5 would not work based on the fact the buses are empty further uptown and only crowded btwn 86-23rd st. they could work on the m10 for expample, but can they do the turn at 159th st?
send the articualted buses to these routes where the service is justified:
Express;
X1
Bklyn:
B41
B44
B46
Bronx:
Bx1,Bx2,Bx55,Bx12(all buses be articulated)
Queens:
Q46
thank you.
When the articulated buses were first proposed in Manhattan they were to run on the following routes:
M15
M27/M50
M42
M101
M102
M103
Now they are on the M79 and the M86 and proposed on the M23. Yes these routes are busy but what happened to the original concept.
In regards to the Q-46 to have buses for one route in a depot does not make sense and there are some turns that will be very difficult for an articulated bus.
In regards to the Staten Island express route the ridership justifies it but they have the express coaches which are a better operational fit.
Thank You
Well, the Q46 can run artics but only to Glen Oaks 260 ST. When they turn off Union Tpke onto 260 St, the turns are not too bad except for 1: 73 Ave and 255 St- very sharp turn for a normal 40 footer. Well, they could refrain Union Tpke E'Bound buses from turning at 260 St and turn on Little Neck Pkwy and THEN terminate at 260 St. Wouldn't seem fit though. There's a reason why I say only to 260 St. Ever been to LIJ Hosp? Well, once inside the hospital, the bus must go around a tight counter-clockwise U-Turn circle to go pick up to go back to Queens Blvd. THAT Turn is IMPOSSIBLE for an Artic- it's difficult for a 40 foot RTS to make it-imagine with a 60 foot artic? Also, at Queens Blvd, the Queens Blvd turn is a bit tight-but I think that turn can be made. The U-Turn from Queens Blvd at 77 Ave- I think that turn can also be made with an artic. Ok, since I know much about Queens, here are some lines that I could see Artics on:
Q43 via Hillside pretty much straight run except for when it reaches Jamaica. Again, Sutphin and Archer is a tight turn from the left side though. Jamaica and Sutphin is another.
Q20A Q20B Q44. That's 1 line I can see it. That line is as busy as it is-I can see Artics there via Main St. Turns on that route are pretty good-Sutphin and Hillside may be a problem though. Main and Northern may be another 1.
Q12- Boy, could this line use them. Only catches: Roosevelt Ave and Bowne Street and the turn around to go to Little Neck Pkwy and vice versa in Little Neck to go back to Flushing.
Q17: I think Artics could be used here- 188 St and HH Expwy turn may be tough.
Q32: Could but turns in Jackson Heights can be a real toughie to make.
81 and 82 Streets and Rooselelt Ave and Northern onto 82 St also.
Q88: Turn from HH Expwy onto 94 St will NOT MAKE IT!!!! Could though.
DOT:
Q60: Everybody I know says that GANG Green should get Artics. The Q60 could but only for the stretch of Queens Blvd. QueensBoro Br Exit in Manhattan NO WAY WILL IT MAKE THAT!!! And also in Jamaica Archer Ave-Sutphin Blvd-kinda tough.
Q11: Could but only to Liberty Ave. Howard and Hamilton Beach artics would get stuck-the streets are too narrow.
Q66: I could see Artics here: Turns are not too bad. However, 2 turns will be too tough:
1. 42 St and 35 Ave- would have to get rerouted back to Steinway St then onto Northern Blvd for that- and the Steinway turn is a tough left to make.
2. At last stop: Main St and 39 Ave- double parked cars and a tight turn for a regular 40 foot bus- OHH NO! Won't go there.
Q53- Only for summer use!!! But should turn at Woodhaven instead of 63 Dr and Artics are not suited for speed.
So, to summarize what I'm saying here, Artics COULD be used on some routes but we can't have them cause of turns and congestion. I do not think that Queens need artics- Only Route I could see them on would be the Q20-Q44.
Sorry for the long post but this is summarizing Queens for Artics!!!
Q46#8357Gary
Artics on the 46 may only be used for the Springfield Blvd short trips so as not to worry about the turnarounds.
The 44/20 shouldnt be a problem. Main and Northern shouldnt be a big deal since you get over to the left on the turn anyway. The turn at Hillside/Sutphin may take a little extra caution.
The 12 I cant see making the turn from pembroke onto Glenwood, unless they removed all the cars. Neighbors wont go for that.
I was thinking the 58, but then i thought of that mess of turns in Ridgewoood. Otherwise it would be an excellent line for them.
Forgot about the Super sharp turns on Corona Ave. This is a NO NO for Artics.
Q46#8357Gary
Why do people think the artics have trouble on turns? The pieces are SHORTER! They should have an EASIER TIME turning.
They're in 2 30' pieces. About the only turns they CAN'T make are hairpins. As long os no standing rules are enfored at the curbs of the streets where they're turning, there shouldn't be a problem. Any 90 degree turn onto a 24' wide street is a piece of cake. Of course, you wouldn't want to be zig-zaging, so too many turns on the route is a turn-off for the artics.
-Hank
No Pun Intended, but it's still funny...
Actually, they're a 35' front and a 25' back.
David
Where they SHOULD go on Staten Island, the most bus-dependant boro, is the s48, s61/91, s62/92, s53, s78, and s79. All of these routes are SRO for most of the day, especially the Victory Blvd and Brooklyn routes. They're not neccesary on the x1, as the new coaches, combined with a 10 minute rush hour headway (30 minutes midday) and the additional x routes that cover the same territory (x2,3,9) usually don't make it an issue.
-Hank
(B41,B44,B46)
Well FLA were to get the artics but plans changed so they are going elsewhere.........
B46M Limited
Excellent Response! I could not agree with you more! The only thing though is that the M4 & M5 carry a standing load past 82nd street during the PM rush. For the M4 you can get a seat after 110th Street and then it picks up again when you get in to the Columbia University area till about 125 to 168 and even 178th GWBBS. But as you said any other time of the day they are not crowded beyond 86 or 96th Street. I hope someone in the upper ranks of the TA read these posts and hopefully put some of the great ideas like the one above in to effect.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Because of traffic congestion, illegal parking at bus stops, people fumbling for change in front of the farebox, passengers insisting on exiting from the front door, customers putting MetroCards with no money on them into the fare boxes (this stops loading completely) all contribute to the lateness of buses. In addition, with all due respect to the wheelchair user, the lift operation delays the bus, puts it off schedule and may cause the follower to catch up. If the lift has to be used multiple times in the course of a trip (more than one person getting on and off), the bus will be delayed further This causes bus bunching.
I was in Phoenix, Arizona, last week and was reminded that Valley Metro's bus paint scheme is somewhat unique, in that the paint scheme on the right side of the bus is different from the left. While the 2 colors are the same on each side, they are reversed. The "V" on the left is the same color as the bottom stripe on the right; the "V" on the right is the same color as the bottom stripe on the left. (For an example, you can go to my picture index at www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Highway/2087/Sid.html
and compare Phoenix Valley Metro #6135 (right side) with #3729 (left side). Is anyone aware of any other U.S. paint scheme where the right side and the left side are not the same?
Anybody been noticing more maintainance problems and breakdowns at LI Bus?
Some people I've spoken to say they've gotten stuck on buses alot recently. I got stuck (for the first time) on the N25 last week when bus 241 an Orion CNG lost acceleration in Lake Success and we had to squeeze like sardines onto the next bus.
There are alot of broken destination signs and plastic placards too, especially with 600 series diesel Orions.
Today there was a stall out (another Orion CNG) on the N21. Service has been reliable up till the past few weeks. Loads of late buses, not to mention they are very dirty inside too. Do they ever get around to cleaning the rear door?
Then comedically I saw a "quality control" sticker on an Orion CNG bus
that said "Norman Levy Bus depot quality assurance" today. The symbol was an Orion CNG bus painted in the LI Bus scheme. Well LI Bus sure needs some quality control lately, since 2 out of of 5 buses have malfunctioning or no destination signs. Also saw lots of broken emergency glass covered by cardboard (above the rear door) on some buses. And I've been seeing graffitti on bus exteriors and interiors.
LI Buses look so bad lately the Stengal buses look pretty good.
Is this declining service quality because of the impending cuts, which are now listed at the LI Bus website?
I'm sure a lot of the woes have to do with the morale of the workers. How would you feel as an employee of MSBA that budget cuts may cause you to get the pink slip and the only place where you get any information at all is in the media?
Yeah, it seems morale of the operators and maintanance workers at LI Bus is pretty low. I'm suprised they haven't had a job action yet.
But from what I can tell by riding the buses, they have been late and are in poor condition. And it's only going to get worse.
I have a feeling that standing room only and more breakdowns are in the future of LI Bus riders. Maintanance has really gone down the tubes lately.
There has been some talk by NY State rep.s about getting Albany to make up the shortfall ... now the question, if LI Bus is 100% funded by MTA or MTA/NY State how will their operation change ?
They, from Pres. down, have acted as if they were NOT part of the MTA ... that was a good thing for Nassau County customers, so what will the future hold ?
Mr t__:^)
While waiting for the Q18 bus to Woodside at Northern Blvd and Broadway, I saw MSBA Bus 537 coming from what it appears to be Manhattan. There was a sign in hte window think it said West Side Bank?! Couldn't really point it out. There were a few people in uniform on the bus-maybe fire department? Can anybody clarify this?
Q46#8357Gary
If it was late on Friday, I'd hazard a guess that some firefighters or whoever was on the bus may have chartered the bus to go the parade.
Back in January 4 NYBS Orion Buses had pull off the road & haven't seen any Orion Buses since January. Now i heard 4 Orion Buses have been transfer to private line in Queens exchange for 4 MCI Buses. I want to know why MYBS give up 4 Orion Buses????
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Because they did not perform up to NYBS standards. Mr. Aragoni is very particular!
I have a Daily News article (somewhere at my mothers' house) in which Ed Arrigoni was interviewed and he stated how he intended to get 25 years of service out of his buses. At the time he had a 1960-62 GMC SDH-5301 parked next to a then new 1982 GMDD T8H-5308A. The reporter stated that the two buses that appeared to be identical to anyone not familiar with buses had 20 years between them. I remember NYBS older fishbowls (and H6H-649's) well and NYBS has always had their buses excellent shape. Like some of us BusTalkers I'd bet that Arrigoni does not care too much for todays' buses.
Wayne
My understanding is that Mr. Aragoni also does not like the way DOT programed the electronic destination signs.
Specifically, the Orions display the route numbers, which he refuses to use at all costs (because route numbers are too low-class for his customers).
In the pictures, they displayed "MANH" and "COOP" on the rear sign. Is this what you mean by route numbers?
No, on the front and side, it showed, "BxM7 CO-OP CITY" while on the rear is stated "COOP"
Trevor
Hmmm... That could be true. Anyone remember that Queens/Steinway Transit use to do similar thing like NYBS with their express routes. Going into Manhattan most Queens/Steinway bus destination signs would read "EXPRESS 6TH AVE". Queens-bound it was "EXPRESS JEWEL AVE", "EXPRESS FRESH MEADOWS" etc. The Queens/Steinway Transit Grumman 870 (with the electronic dot matrix signs) also did not display route numbers for the express routes.
Wayne
I have heard the Orions in question are shorter, 35 vs. 40 feet and have musch less seating capicity due to two rows of facing seats. Since he doesn't do local service & loves the MCIs it was a good trade for both companies involved.
Mr t__:^)
This is totally wrong, those buses were 40' long x 102" wide, BUT did have about 6 less seats than the MCI Classics.
Trevor
Being a SubwayBuff & just an employee at a bus company I sometimes get things a little wrong, so sorry about that. I knew it was related to less seats & thought that the person who told me also said the buses size was different. The second point is that all the express buses in the City will need to be handycap accessable some day, so it's a matter of DOT selecting one that seems to meet all the needs of the operators & customers. At this depot the Orion V soft seats give us the flexibility of using them in local as well as express service, but we would like to have some of the same model that the TA has. It looks like that may happen. At least DOT is seriously thinking about buying some.
Disclaimer: I'm not a official spokesman of nycDOT or my employeer.
Mr t__:^)
Those seats are lost with the WC accomodations. Lift-equipped Classics are also several seats short.
-Hank
Primarily Customer Complaints about the buses
1)Seats were too small
2)Not enough privacy (No Tinted windows)
NYBS takes there customer complaints seriously and pulled the buses off the road. I had a chance to ride it and at the end of the ride. I asked to operate how does he like it, he had no complaints. But like I just stated, NYBS takes customers seriously.
Honestly, I think I see MCI Cruiser Coaches in the future for NYBS and Liberty Lines Express or maybe New Flyer D45S Vikings, who knows!?!?!
Trevor Logan
If NYCDOT buys over-the-road coaches for the "private" operators, then that's what the "private" operators will run. Until then, they'll run whatever NYCDOT gives them.
David
Yeah, but Arigoni ain't having it. He will down every bus that the DOT brings him until he is happy. And based on what I see going on at NYBS. The MCI Cruiser or New Flyer D45S Viking is more NYBSs style. Also I have noticed the Liberty Lines Epxress follows NYBSs suit.
We'll see!
Trevor
Not enough privacy? That's the absolutly most rediculous thing I've ever heard about a bus ride. You're on a CITY BUS, for chissake. There's 39 other people ON THE BUS besides you! What the hell are you concerned about privacy for?
-Hank
That's what the customers want. If you notice, all of the MCI Classics for DOT have substantial tints on them, if the customers become use to that then that's what they expect out of the company. It isn't NYBS's fault that they carry snobby customers. But that was one of the complaints by the customers about the Orion V Suburbans that NYBS had. What may be rediculous thing to you, may not be to others. I kinda agree. With the tinted windows on the MCI Classics, when I ride, I feel like a sense of secluded-ness and comfort on those buses. It's kinda comforting after a hard days work.
Trevor
Hi folks, Shabbos just ended, so I am back on line again. Up here where I live in Rockland County, we have the TOR (Transport Of Rockland) system. You may have seen some of their green and white buses on the road. They used to have RTS buses when I first moved here, but now they run Gilligs (40 footers). They operate 5 local routes plus the Tappan Zee Express which goes over the bridge into Westchester. They have a very convenient system for signalling the driver. In addition to the tape running on top of the windows as on other buses, they also have the tape extending down between the windows so that the passengers can also signal from the sitting position as well. This is very convenient for the frail & elderly who can not stand up while the bus is moving.
KING SOLOMON
That's standard on an RTS with push-tape, as well.
David
I remember when Jamaica's Charter Department used to send the contract to the customer, it was always accompanied by a beautiful post card showing a color photograph of the actual vehicle the customer was getting. The color photograph was on one side, and when you turned it over it gave a description of the vehicle along with its features such as air conditioning, tinted picture windows, luggage capability, seating capacity, and reclining seats. The post cards were put out by Dexter Press. They had one for the Transit Bus, one for the Cruiser Coach and one for the Suburban Coach. If anyone knows where I can get my hands on some of these I would be very greatful. I think they will be collectors items some day.
KING SOLOMON
Only thought that comes to mind is one of the online Auction houses such as E-Bay. Otherwise try the model train shows. The ones put on semi-annually by Greenberg at both Hofstra and SUNY-Stony Brook have one or two vendors selling magazines, photos and other media items.
Now that I finally got myself a Trunktracker II, would anyone care to check out the NYC Surface Transit Trunked Radio System info on the following pages and critique their accuracy?
http://www.n2nov.net/transit2.htm
http://www.trunktracker.com/states/ny.html
http://www.bearcat1.com/fleetny.htm
Thanks,
--Mike
I just came back from Hong Kong, where the majority(about 85%) of the busses used are DoubleDeckers, including one hugh one made by Neoplan. Traffic there is just about as bad as in NYC, and most of the streets are as narrow as in Manhatten. The busses are mfg by 5 different companies and imported. Mostly there are British Made(Leyland) German(Man and Mercedes, and Neoplan) Volvo and one other British Company whivh I forgot the name. There are now 3 Companies but eventually they will be one. City Bus, Kowloon Motor Bus Company and Ferry Bus Lines. The fares are real cheap(1USD=7.8HKD and fares run from $3.00HKD and Up except on a couple shuttle busses which are $2.00HKD.) They also have a 1922 Set of Double Decker Tram(Trolley lines) that the ,longest route is 13 miles 88 Minutes on a schedule if you are lucky and cost$2.00HK What are you guys feeling why North American Cities do not use DoubleDeckers,?
The Interstate Highway System. Too many low bridges. Too many possibilities for a lawsuit if one fell on the stairs. Lack of disabled access.
-Hank
Also too many low hanging traffic lights in Manhattan and too many low hanging telephone and electric wires in the outer Boroughs. I was told this by Tom Harrison, General Manager of Leisure Line who run Neoplan double deckers strictly on their Atlantic City line runs from North Jersey only, where the route has been throughly researched in advance.
KING SOLOMON
Triboro doesn't let any CNG buses into the Terminal near Roosevelt Av & Broadway. They're too tall. Double-deckers are about as tall if not taller. (13 feet?) Anything low-hanging would be trouble for a double-decker.
The Tridents are about 13' 5" to 13' 8" depending on their exact build.
Unfortunately I live about 300 miles away from the Dennis factory, so I have not been able to get any photos of the BC buses, but I am hoping to get them from another source.
My source in BC, who has contacts with Dennis had this to say recently:
>The first three Tridents are at the Guildford Dennis plant now
>They caused quite a stir being left hand drive and roaring up
>the motorway in an unusual color scheme driven by Portuguese drivers
>who got off them exclaiming "so fast so fast" with their bigger
>engines compared to the Hong King destined models they have been
>driving from Caetanos in Portugal. There is a problem with the
>dashboard layout, a German consultant blew it and drivers from
>BCT Victoria noticed the problems and Dennis is rebuilding the
>dashboards. Hence a delay, It is now thought it will be April 20
>before they get on a boat headed for the Panama Canal and onto
>Tacoma Washington. The whole plant at Dennis came out to see the
>coaches as they arrived, calls have been flooding into to Dennis,
>un-announced groups from USA operators have arrived at Dennis to
>see them , drive them and deal for them. So we dont think they
>will be here in BC until the last week in may or first of June.
You may be wondering why they went to Portugal to have their bodies built - good question ....
Their bodies are made by Duple Metsec who only produce bodies in kit form. They were to have been built up in the UK before shipment, but the company who was to do it fell out with Dennis, so Caetano in Portugal got the job (they have built up most of the Duple Metsec bodies found on Dennis Dragons and Tridents in Hong Kong with Citybus)
The height problem is what is stopping most of mainland Europe getting double deckers - mind you they have managed to get really low deckers in Berlin 4m / 13ft high, and fully accessable downstairs to disabled passengers.
As for the problems of people sueing for falling down the stairs, not all countries economies revolve around lawyers !!! (it is virtually unheard of in the UK for people to fall down stairs, let alone sue for it).
Richard
The name of the other UK manufacturer is Dennis - the same people who are supplying double deck "Trident 3" buses to Victoria, BC
Citybus is now owned by Stagecoach (owner of Coach USA)
The third operator is "New World First Bus", partially owned by First Group of the UK (who own a number of companies in the US these days, including the former Ryder / ATE operations). NWFB have also recently taken over some of the HK Ferry operations, and are running these under the New World Ferry name
Whilst Double Deckers are unlikely to be seen widespread over the US (except as tourist buses), the odd new one may appear over the next few years. The Dennis Trident deckers due for Victoria, BC are currently at the Dennis factory in Guildford, England and apparently a number of US operators have been over to look at these impressive machines, and take them for a test drive etc. No further details are known at the moment though. The first Tridents should arrive in BC around May / June time, ready to enter service in the Fall.
Richard Stedall
Buses Worldwide US/Canada subeditor
www.busesworldwide.org
Thanks Richard, I forgot the name of the mfg until about 3 this AM, The Dennis busses are impressive, and they are the most comfortable busses I have ever rode it, soft cushen(spelling) seats, Yes an New World First Bus who run the ferries, except the Star Ferry. I did not know Stagecoach owned City Bus, They are still running some of the older busses formallyt owned by China Motor Bus. The people then called the CMB The Blue Busses and the KMB the Red Busses. I took a full length video of the Route to Stanley from Central on the 6, and return via the bus to Kowloon. The paint jobs on these busses are great, as much as four different colors in layers. As for the answer of the handicapped, these busses do provide seats for the Handicapped, just behind the driver and entrance, they have seating for 4-8 depending on the size of the bus. Also 2 of the seats can be raised for wheel chairs.
North American cities have rarely used double deckers. The only big users in years past were NY (Fifth Avenue Coach, last ran 1953), Chicago (Chicago Motor Coach, last ran 1950), and Philadelphia (Philadelphia Rapid Transit and successor PTC, last ran around 1945). Most bus routes did not have the ridership to justify a two floor bus, and most required a two man operation (driver and conductor). The New York and Chicago routes were marketed as scenic trips (along Fifth Avenue, Riverside Drive, and Lake Michigan in the Windy City).
After 1946 Fifth Avenue Coach did convert its remaining double decks to one man operation, but replaced the buses in 1951-1953 due to their age. Yellow Coach/GM did not build double deckers after 1938, so the replacements buses in New York and Chicago in the early 50s were GMs that were 40 feet long and had 50 seats.
MABSTOA did experiment with 8 British Leyland DDs from 1976 to about 1980, but the experiment apparently was not successful. As other posts noted, overhanging trees and traffic signal posts were problems, as well as the potential liability due to the stairs to the upper level. And the more recent development of artics will pretty much eliminate double deckers as an option.
I vividly remember the 1976-1980 double deckers running on the M5. I'm told they were only run on the M5 because there were no low hanging traffic signals on its route.
Now, how about double-decker artics? (But not on the M79 or M86 -- they wouldn't make it through the park.)
I remember the M-4 running the double deckers buses and having to turn down 181st ST in Washington Heights because they were too high to clear the GW Bridge Bus Terminal underpass and resuming it's normal route at 135th ST
i remember being on the buses when they ran on the M1 line( i even rode on it from 8th St-4th Av to 86th St-Madison Ave).
I'm trying to look for pictures of these buses and anyone knows of where to get pictures of these buses, please let me know.
There are a few pictures on this site; if you look around, you'll find them.
-Hank
The other day on the M14 from above I saw 9517, on the backplate. But on top of the bus, it was 9518. So 1), why and how did this happen, and 2), is this 9517 or 9518?
1. Someone screwed up.
2. Probably 9517.
3 (bonus). Someone brought this up here a few months ago. Guess nobody's fixed it.
David
after hearing complaints about Li bus for so long, i took a trip on li bus on friday to see how bad things were. here are my finidings:
LIBUS
#119-ORION V CNG-route N22A
clean, somewhat crowded but in good condition.
#523-Gillig-Route N23
Muffler sounded like it needed work(so said driver) and it had tape on it to hold it together. clean interior, but maker graffit on passenger side outside of bus when i got off at Roslyn.
#557-Gillig-Route N20
excellinent condtion. a bit crowded though, but in perfect shape.
this afternoon i saw #5078 on the B6 today. This is a NOVABUS and i want to know how many did ULP get and what did they get to replace them?
Also, heard a rumor from a driver about routes from Ulmer Park. let me know if this is true or false:
B6 to ENY
B2 and B31 to ULP
X26 to ULP(new express route)
the b2 and B31 are a bad idea to send to ulp. it runs closer to flatbush depot. These are the lines that i think they should operate out of ulmer park:
B1
B3
B4
B36
B64
B68
B74
X25,X27,X28 and X29.
Let me know about the rumor and the #5000's series to ULP
Ulmer Park Depot might be gettiing TMC-RTS #86xx from West Side Depot because Ulmer Park Depot already have TMC-RTS #8601 also they will be getting Novabus-RTS #5205-#5229 from Kingsbridge Depot soon.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
I heard that UP may get 5075-5124 from KB. Is that true?
Also, I think UP will get 8600s from WS since more Artics are arriving.
Q46#8357Gary
i saw 5078 and i dont know about the 8600 series..
Much has been said here about where 5075-5124 are going which seems to change often. BTW-Those buses are at Gun Hill depot. I would like to see them stay at Gun Hill.
Wayne
I work at UPK 5077 is there it is being used to break in the operators on the 5000 series buses.
OOPS! My error! Anyways, 5075-5124 have EZ Transmission so drivers have to be trained on those. Others have Detroit Allison Transmission.
Q46#8357Gary
ZF transmissions, not EZ.
David
maybe that explains why #5078 was running, its from KB. If i see any more of the 5000's running(cause i live by the B1 line, which is a ulp route), i will let you know here on bustalk.
Rumors:
B6 to East New York -- false;
B2 and B31 to Ulmer Park -- false, at least until artics come to Flatbush (several years from now, if ever), then maybe;
X26 -- FALSE!!!!!!! No new NYCT express routes in Brooklyn.
David
5075-5124 are suppposed to go to FLA. B6 uses FLA buses for rush hour runs between the L and 2,5 trains. What time did you see this bus????????
B46#5124Mike
Ulmer Park is getting 5000's with the FZ Tran. I was in 5077 this moring while the other driver were traning on it. The FZ tran's only has three botton on it. D-N-R
So what is Flatbush is getting then?????
B46M Limited
a little bit before 12pm on sunday 3/19/00
Ulmer Park is getting 20 NOVA 50xx series busses in the next few weeks from Kingsbridge Depot. This is straight from management at Ulmer Park.
Drivers are currently being trained on Bus 5078 while the other busses arrive. 5076 or 5077 arrived yesterday and was on the B6.
is ULP planning to replace any of its buses once the 5000's come in from kingsbridge and if so, which ones?
They might get ride of the remaning 3000's that they have.
I remember living on Staten Island the year that the TA took all the Grumans out of service. Besides borrowing Metro Buses from Washington DC, they also borrowed a fleet of MCI-8 cruiser coaches from Greyhound for express service to and from Manhattan. These were 47 passenger automatic transmission coaches with high back full reclining seats and were repainted in the white & blue MTA livery. They also had LAVATORIES, but they always kept them locked and nobody could use them. I think at the time it was a very foolish decision because the MTA was losing ridership to Academy and other private charter operators who were putting out all their new equipment on commuter routes which all had open usable lavatories. Maybe years ago when traffic was not so bad they were not necessary. But today it is not unusual to encounter delays where the trip between Staten Island and Manhattan can take close to 2 hours. It is at those times that a lavatory becomes a necessity rather than a luxury. I am in favor of lavatories on all express routes where the normal running time is 1 hour or more.
KING SOLOMON
The express MCIs do not have lavatories. The MTA would be unable to maintain them in a sanitary fashion.
I remember when NYCTA used those Greyhound MC-8's on SI Express routes. At that time I believe Greyhound buses still had 43 seats - but more importantly, I bet the TA kept the lavatories locked because they didn't want to maintain them. Also, in fairness to the TA... Even though they do (and have done) lots of things that make no sense - they may not have had the necessary supplies/facilities for handling the lavatories.
Wayne
It's not that they didn't WANT to maintain them, they did not have the facilities to do it. Those MC-8's from Greyhound were a temporary, emergency measure. If there were more transit buses available, NYCTA would never have gone near those MC-8's, believe me. They were all stored by Greyhound when NYCTA leased them, and as soon as NYCTA finished using them, most showed up at every used bus lot in California!! The company I worked for at the time wound up with NYCTA 5906, and it was totally shot. It hardly ever ran, and we got rid of it within six months. It was a 1973 bus, and this was in 1988. The company that bought it from us got it running for a few months, and to this day it still sits in a junkyard in Long Beach (CA).
But that's a lesson to be learned -- NEVER buy a bus from Greyhound and expect it to be in tip-top shape. Once the skinny dog decides that a bus will be retired/replaced, they stop taking care of it, and run the miles off of it. When you buy a used bus from the 'Hound, you get a VERY USED bus. They make sure they got their money's worth out of them.
I saw #374 on the B-100 line on sunday and this bus looks terrible. I know that command is keeping 10 of these in service for the line, but isnt command getting at least a FEW new buses for thatline at least? I mean, its windows are all scratched out, and i do remember being in it and it looked messey. At least when command was running #351-#355 it looked better(so did #404,and i don't see it anymore). Where is #404 and will command get new buses for that line, or is B100 riders stuck to riding in slop buses?
#404 is now known as Green Bus #651. Oh speaking of Ex's: I have a surprise for everybody at BusTalk. I went down to Merrick Blvd today and to my surprise, I saw GBL 1146(Ex-QS #278) on the Q9 Today. I took about 3 or 4 pics of her. Will probably have them in my possession by tomorrow. The front and side signs said Green Bus Lines. The rear said GAR- The same sign that was on QS 278 when it was theirs. I have a complete roster of what Ex-Commands are that are now at GBL. If you'd like the roster, email me and let me know I'll send it to you. Thanks.
Q46#8357Gary
email me the roster of the following:
Green
Command
Queens
triboro
Jamaica
thanks
but this is my true email address:
pingu45@aol.com
saw #7535 on Madison Ave this afternoon on the M3 line. Did manhattanville get some of the 7500's from westside or is westside just getting rid of a lot of their buses to make room for articulateds? And if they are, what buses are leaving to be scrapped/retired/or sent to other depots?
Do fareboxes accept $1 coins and count them at full value? Would they accept the new $1 coins?
most farboxes dont acccept $1 bills ever since the metrocard came out. do not know if libery or NYBS still accepts dollar bills.
I know that the TA doesnt accept pennies or half dollars, probably not dollar coins either.
They do accept dollar coins.
The new coin weighs the same, and has the same electric properties as the old, so it is automatically accepted.
The best is when the Farebox counts a Quarter as a SBA, and when someone put in six of them and it counts to as $6.00.
One more thing is that some of the MVM's are now giving them out in Manhaton.
All of them are. That is if you need more than $1 in change.
And they're not just in Manhattan. They're in all FIVE (yes, five) boroughs.
Ya! I now that. I ment that so far only the one in Manhattan have the new coins so far that I heard.
Oh you were talking about the NEW coins.
AFAIK, FNO (from now on) all the machines will have the new coins. I'm sure the government will encourage the SBA to be removed from circulation now that the new coin is in. In addition, someone spending one of the new coins in the machine will cause it to be used as change.
The Goverment will not take the SBA's out cirulation. They just made the 1999 SBA's becouse of a shortage of older SBA's. They did this becouse the Gold $ coins were not ready to be produced.
The SBA was a failure, I'm sure the government will want to quickly make all dollar coin reserves into the new, supposedly better coin to encourage use.
The old coins will gradually be withdrawn, just like the old Mecury Dimes and Buffalo Nickels. You won't notice the SBAs missing for at least 10 years, though. Too many of them.
-Hank
To make the new $1.00 coin work the $1.00 bill will need to go away.
The dollar bill will likely be gone before you see the last SBA. The loonie in Canada has worked well and when the $1.00 went away they came out with a $2.00 coin, but fareboxes and cash machines in the USA are not ready for a US $2.00 coin.
There's an expensive ride!
I'd assume that they would. Thurston is our man to ask about that.
Q46#8357Gary
The pre-MetroCard fareboxes accepted Susan B. Anthony dollars; I can only assume the current fareboxes do as well. (The new dollar coins should be indistinguishable from the old ones to a machine.) And, incidentally, the pre-MetroCard fareboxes accepted pennies as well even though the sign claimed they didn't.
(Why do people still pay cash on NYCT buses? Buy a $15 MetroCard and take the 10% bonus.)
Well, there is that off-peak $1 fare on the private routes. If you pay in coins. With MC, it's $1.50.
Ah, but at the last moment before posting I realized that and modified my question to "Why do people still pay cash on NYCT buses?"
Maybe they can't get a MetroCard FSSR. Maybe that's the only type of payment they have.
There are always going to be folks who travel across the bridges or by bus or subway who want to pay in cash for many reasons. At this depot we still get thousands of tokens in our fareboxes, so go figure.
BTW, the useage of $1 coins is on the RISE at this depot too.
Mr t_:^)
I would also have assumed that the new "gold" dollars would be interchangeable with SBA's, from a machine's point of view, but apparently not. Just this morning, noticed for the first time stickers on PATH Quickard venmding machines: "This machine does NOT accept the new dollar coin." Yet, they do accept SBA's. Go figure.
The fare boxes in the City (MTA & nycDOT) don't mind the new gold $1 coins. Also dollar bills are accepted at NY Bus Serv & Liberty.
Mr t__:^)
The new boxes still accept pennies. I actually payed full-fare in pennies for a week when the fare went to $1.50. My own little protest.
-Hank
I have had that happen to me onec on the B74 and then on the B82. I just told the person that it most count all of them or they will have to make up the differents.
Hank and his frinds must travel our line in Queens as we get more then $25 in pennies everyday :-(
Mr t
Here are rosters that I've done for QS, CTC and GBL. Enjoy!
http://www.geocities.com/smoke228/QueensSurface.html
http://www.geocities.com/smoke228/TriboroCoach.html
http://www.geocities.com/smoke228/GreenLines.html
Q46#8357Gary
could u get the command bus rosterand Jamaica bus roster as well?
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B43 b48 Southern Terminal Routings
Bx26 Bx28 West Terminal Changes
New Route Bx25
X10 Staten Island
x1 X10 X17 Manhattan
100 St Depot Awarded Contracts for Articulated Buses
Spring Scheduling Changes
Im surpise New 100th St Depot is getting New Flyer Articlated but i though they won't fix in new 100th St Depot because they will be 400x200 with four level.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
M4 changes? What is going on?
Effective in Mid 200-
The M4 will be routed via Ft Washington ,135 and Broadway ,,In Both Directions
Where? It already goes on Broadway, 135th, and Ft. Washington (and takes forever, too). I heard it used to go on Riverside Drive. That was probably better than Broadway since there is less traffic.
Both directions
What are you talking about? Ft. Washington ENDS at 159/Bway. Give me a better explanation, please.
NB via Broadway ,L on West 165,Right on Ft washington Av
SB via Ft Washington Av,,L on W165 st,Right on Broadway
I can not make it any clearer for you
All notices will be posted,ONLY on
http://www.egroups.com/lists/NYCBUSNEWS
I heard that the TA now has a Staten Island to Manhattan express route that operates through New Jersey. Can anyone either confirm or deny this ?
KING SOLOMON
some trips on the X17 and the X31 in the AM rush hours hours(in fact, ALL of the AM trips on the X31) operate via Nj to manhattan. However, pm rush hours, all trips on the X17 and X31 operate via manhattan and brooklyn battery tunnel and regular route(like all other express buses from staten island).
Why do they do this? I have seen TA buses from the Metroliner in NJ and I did wonder why on earth is this here?
Faster to midtown by 15-25 minutes, depending on the traffic. Bus operates regular route until they get to the SIE, then they go WEST instead of east (before they were re-routed, these routes went east on the SIE to the VZ) over the Goethals Bridge, then they take the NJTP to the Lincoln Tunnel, 34st to Madison, left up Madison to 57 and 3. Previously, these buse would take the SIE/VZ/Gowanus/BBT to West St, right on 23st, and a left on Madison. When x31 started running in this manner, the driver gave out MC that were for transfers to the subway to get to stops no longer serviced by the route. This was pre-encoded transfer days. Now, all x-bus transfers require MC.
-Hank
This is a fine idea, and its about time. I had heard that NYC buses were not allowed to travel out of the city, but I guess that is not true.
Perhaps some Staten Island Coach buses could terminate in teh Port Authority Bus Terminal someday.
Even before sending X17's and X31's through New Jersey, NYCT operated bus service outside the city limits:
Q5 and Q85 actually cross into Valley Stream and continue about a mile down Sunrise Highway to Green Acres.
Q46 crosses into Lake Success to serve the Long Island Jewish Medical Center.
Portions of Bx16 and Q36 use streets which serve as the city line. Buses are in NYC on one side of the street (Mundy Lane and Jamaica Avenue, respectively) and Mount Vernon (South 11th Avenue) and Bellerose or Floral Park (Jericho Turnpike) on the other side of the street.
Q2 crosses into Elmont turns around on a short stretch of the Cross Island Parkway.
Even though it's not NYCTA and it's DOT the Q113(JBL)cuts thru 5 Towns and Lawrence to get to Far Rockaway
I am familiar with the 17X Route. However the 31X was probably started after I moved from Staten Island. What part of the Island does it service ? I am also curious as to whether the TA is required to purchase State of New Jersey fuel stickers to put on their buses that run these routes like the private operators are required to do.
KING SOLOMON
I'm not too sure about the NJ Fuel Stickers, however the TA busses do have a special orange decal place on the right hand side exterior
mirror which allow them to use the special bus lane on the route 495
approach to the Lincoln Tunnel.
Also I've seen some flyers posted behind the driver's seat which authorize the MTA to conduct emergency road service to disabled busses
on the NJ Turnpike.
x31 operates from si mall to midtown. it follows the s61/s91 route to the hwy
Actually, it runs from AK to the mall, and then follows the s61 to the highway. It was extended about 3 years ago.
-Hank
As vehicles owned and operated by a government authority (that being the State of New York) they are exempt. As transit vehicles, they are also exempt from most fuel taxes.
-Hank
Saw two Command buses with BM10-Special destinations signs at Linden and Penn Av. They were coming from Queens. Both buses had people on them. Where was it coming from?
B46#5095Mike Limited
The BQ10 operates between Aqueduct Race Track and Flatbush Avenue.
I went out to Green Bus Line last night. I spotted 1148 and 1149 outside the depot. In the storage lot across the street were a few 1000s. 1014, 1008, and another 1000 were in the lot. Also, 630-1, the bus that was in a lot across from the Far Rockaway depot, was with the 1000s.However, this bus was freshly painted, with a brown stripe along the front and side.You could still see 630-1 on the back of the bus.
does that mean the 1000's are FINALLY being replaced?????? And if anyonec an get a pic of the new green orion one door buses,please send
I got bus 1146 coming soon. When I see any 1 doors, I'll let you know.
Q46#8357Gary
Saw 1013 in service today on the Q10.
Q46#8357Gary
I spotted 1149 in service on the Q37 around 9:30 AM Monday 3/20/00 at Jamaica Ave/111 St.
Here are the ex-QS that are now at GBL:
275-1143
276-1144
277-1145
278-1146
279-1147
280-1148
281-1149
Q46#8357Gary
Here are the ex-QS that are now at GBL:
275-1143
276-1144
277-1145
278-1146
279-1147
280-1148
281-1149
Q46#8357Gary
is there pics of thes buses yet and what of the one door orions?
Tonight, I'll have a few pics of 1146 coming out and a few other goodies that I took on Merrick Blvd on Monday. I have pics of 276 and 277(now GBL 1144 and 1145) when they served at QS. I'll try to dig them up, rescan them and email them to you. Also I should tell you BusTalkers now to be aware of 1143 and 1144 because they will have low destination signs. 1145 and up will have high signs. Also another little note about QS 277-now GBL 1145: She has a new frame in her because a few years back, she was involved in an accident and the whole front was pushed in. This happened I beliueve in 96 on the Q25 College Point run.
Q46#8357Gary
send the pics to this address..its my email address
pingu45@aol.com
simon is my name
New frame? That's rediculous! You can't replace the frame, and still have the same bus. The bus is built on the frame. If it's a new fram, it's a new bus. You can't replace the frame without DESTROYING the body.
-Hank
Interesting! But isn't the RTS built in 8 5 foot sections? And if that is the case the front section for instance can be replaced if severly damaged. This supposedly happened to an RTS in Boston if I am not mistaken. This is one of the strengths of the RTS that make it tough and sturdy. TSI of Calafornia has taken 10 feet off of 40 foot RTS's to make them shorter, So I can see what you mean Hank.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
I couldn't find any info about this on the LIRR site, and I wasn't sure where else to look, so I posted here:
Is there an easy way to transfer from the Ronkonkoma LIRR station to the airport there, and vice versa? If not, what (if any) is the best way to get from Islip to NYC by public transportation?
Thanks,
Steve L.
(BTW, if I don't get any info from this board, I'll cross-post to Subtalk. I just figured that if there WAS a transfer, it would involve a bus.)
This subject has come up a lot lately. "Islip" airport is actually nearest to Ronkonkoma. Many folks have suggested taking a taxi from Islip Airport to Ronkonkoma LIRR station, which costs $8-10. The use LIRR into the city. The train takes about an hour, not sure of the fare.
Zone 1 To or from Zone 10One Way (double for round trip) TicketsPeak$9.50Peak-1/2 Fare (child)$4.75Senior Citizens
People with Disabilities$4.75OffPeak$6.50Off-Peak 1/2 Fare (child)$3.25Multiple Ride TicketsMonthly$200.00Weekly$62.00 Off-Peak Ten Trip$58.50 Group FaresAdults$6.00Youth$4.00
Originally when the LIRR electrified to Ronkonkoma, the hope was that Mac Arthur would move the terminal to the north side of the field and either shuttle buses or a people mover would take passengers to and from the airport/station. That never occured. Instead the main terminal has been greatly expanded to coincide with the arrival of Southwest Airlines.
The moving of the terminal was another great idea not listened to by politicians. Since Islip is a town owned (not airport authortiy) the local residents yield a lot of power through the ballot box.
Does anyone have information of old bus routes that ran in the New York City area .
I have seen PA 1761 at Hudson Pier Depot with a Ulmer Park Depot sticker. Is this bus being used in service or is it being retired/scraped?
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
This bus probably broke down while in express service in Manhattan. Whenever an express bus from YUK CAS or UP craps out in Manhattan they are either taken to HUD or WS
Indeed, I saw the bus broken down in Manhattan one morning this week and it was taken to Hudson. It now looks like they are stripping the bus.
"Another One Bites the Dust"
Where are the bus yards located for the MTA?
Thanks,
Dave
You mean Bus Storage Yards??
Peace Out
David Justiniano
NYCTransiTrans Gallery Page
yes, the storage yards. I'm working on a BAHN simulation of the bus lines
I think you mean the bus depots, where the buses come in and out of every day.
And when you're done, can you e-mail me the simulation? Thanks, Tevi.
yeah, sure. but first I gotta know where to put the busses at night.
Obviously because Bahn is a rail program, I took some liberties....
dave
day and night, it's the same,
I remember when living on Staten Island that the TA operated the shortest route in the Borough. It ran from the entrance to Great Kills Park on Hylan Boulevard to the interior parking lot near the beach. It operated on Summer weekends only on 1 hour headways. The round trip running time was only 3 minutes. The driver stayed on the beach with his family during the Saturdays & Sundays when it ran and spent 3 minutes out of every hour driving. Does this shuttle still run and if so what is its route designation number ? Also, which depot does it come out of: Yukon or Castleton ?
According to S.I. Bus Maps, it no longer runs...although that is a very long walk from Hylan Blvd. to the beach. So you'd think the TA would continue that shuttle. I always thought it would have made more sense to run the shuttle from the SIR (either Bay Terrace or Oakland Hts. Stations) instead of just from Hylan Blvd.
The route designation number was S103S. The first "S" stood for Staten Island and the final "S" stood for shuttle. The S78 is today what the S103 was before all the route numbers were changed in the early 90's on Staten Island, to conform to the part of the island they served.
Maybe if the TA doesn't want to pay a driver just to sit there for all but six minutes per hour, they should extend some of the S54s or S78s to the beach from their New Dorp terminals in the summer. Both buses terminate about 10 blocks from the park entrance. If the TA sends every M11 into Riverside Park almost all day, it would make sense to send some Staten Island buses into the park during warm weather.
The S103 (Hylan Blvd. main route) became the S78 (Tottenville branch) and S79 (S.I.Mall branch) in the late 1980's or early 1990's.
If the S103S had survived, it would have become S77.
BTW, the S78 does not terminate "10 blocks from the park entrance" - it ends in Tottenville, which is several MILES from the park entrance. Perhaps you meant the S57, S59, or S76?
Another seasonal service which was killed way back was the Bx12 shuttle between Pelham Bay station and the Pelham Golf Course.
You forgot the Riis Park Runs on the
B9
B46
I have seen these mobile classrooms parked in front of various parochial schools in Brooklyn with the name & logo of New York Bus Service on them. Does anyone know how much a day Arrigoni gets paid by the Board of Ed for one of these vehicles ? Also are the drivers who drive them getting paid according to the Transit union wage scale or the lesser scale paid to the school bus drivers ?
I'd also like to know. I know Arrigoni has used them for years and I'm sure it's a lucrative contract has in addition to the Board of Ed (for school bus service).
Wayne
Apparently the need for these types of vehicles arose due to another messed up legal decision by the judges (nee lawyers) that help govern us. I understand that the City is required to provide certain services and subjects to students who attend private and parochial schools. There was a ruling that if the city supplied instructors went into a parochial school that would be a violation of the "seperation of church and state" doctrine. Therefore the solution was to park some of these portable/mobile classrooms outside the school. The students had to get up, leave their seats, bundle up in the winter to leave the building and enter the bus.
Is that why these mobile classroom are a permanent fixture outside many parochial schools. I've been curious about it for years.
Wayne
Apparently so, unless the judges and politicians come to their senses and see what a waste of money it is. While I'm a strong believer in the seperation of church and state, I don't see how a teacher entering the school portion (not the sanctuary portion) of a building violates this rule. If a teacher has strong religious beliefs and he/she would feel uncomfortable going into a school of a different faith, I could see making an accomodation by assigning that instructor to a private school or a parochial of his/her faith.
Also has anyone figured out how many colds the children get being bundled up to leave the building to enter the bus and vice versa?
I agree with you. It does seem to be a waste. Why not just have an area of the school building set aside for this purpose.
Wayne
The whole point is that, because it's a parochial (religious) school, the Board of Education may not physically enter it.
Actually, one court did rule a few years ago that is WOULD be permissible for BOE staff to enter parochial schools. However, other courts have since disagreed.
Also, Arragoni supposedly has a clause in his contract requiring BOE to give TWO YEARS' notice prior to canceling the mobile classrooms.
Sorry, but people don't get colds from the cold.
Is Arrigoni the name of the owner of New York Bus Service?
That's MISTER Arrigoni (sp?) to us mere mortals.
one of the old nybs orion buses was spotted by yours truely today on 34th st. It's new number was #719(the sign did not work though). It looked very good,one door and neat. Can't wait to see what the other 4 look like. And i am still waiting for pics of the green line buses that were formerly queens surface.
I though the orions from nybs would be #5551-#5554. Is this to be the local buses from QS thatare Orion that will be that number?
#719?! Hmmm, maybe the new numbers will be from 719-722 instead of 5551-5554. What route was the bus on? This is NOT from QS. QS has 6 just like the 5500s that are running at GBL. They'll come over later after they get spruced up at QS. They're getting ready right now for transferring. They're only 3 others. NYBS had 1711-1714. As far as the ex-QS TMC's are concerned, I have the pics on me now of 1146. They came out pretty good, however I didn't get the opportunity to scan them. Don't worry I will find the time to do it over the weekend. I was over by Kew Gardens Rd this morning and I saw the following buses there: 251, 618, 716, 1003, 1005, 1146, 1148, 5501, 5516, 5541. 1006 Q37- 1000 still going strong!!! Speaking of 1148: I have to make a correction: 1148 was ex-QS 276. She has a low destination sign on her. I've updated the roster if you'd wish to check it out.
http://www.geocities.com/smoke228/GreenLines.html
Sorry about the mistake!!! I will update later or tomorrow about #719.
Q46#8357Gary
it was on a express route. I think it was on the QM15 route, but the sign wasn't working. I saw it on 34th st near Madison Avenue around 8:15 A.m.
I saw #719 on Queens Boulevard yesterday. It was running on the QM15. Looked real nice. Using the paper sign like most of the other GBL Orions because the signs don't work.
The signs do work, it's just that they need reprograming for green lines routes. So hopefully soon they will be reprogramed and running.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
I saw 720 on Queens Blvd yesterday and again the sign wasn't working. Looks nice though. Also, 1149 was operating on Q10 but the signs were working.
Q46#8357Gary
Saw #719 yesterday. The signs said "EXPRESS." Didn't get a good look at it because it was moving along Queens Boulevard, and I was on a B24 bus stopped at the 47th Street stop. I did notice that unlike the other GBL Orions, the route sign is in the back where it should be. It said "EXP."
Saw 722 this morning on QM18 and her signs were working fine. When I got a pic of her on Tuesday, her signs weren't working. What a difference 2 days make!
QM18#722Gary
i'm still waiting on the Orion buses that used to be Queens Surface #700-#705. I heard here they were #5545-#5550. Anyone got a picture of these?
They're not on the road as of yet!
Q46#8357Gary
Yesterday at about 8:45 AM I passed ENY Depot on the Jamaica Ave side. There was a large flatbed at the curb blocking about four entrances. It was a private contract and was the type used to transport large construction vehicles, such as bulldozers, front-end loaders, cranes, etc from place to place. Probably was transporting a bus. Anyone know what bus # ????
Also on the Broadway side I noticed several old RTS's parked in a small area. From the faded light-blue stripe they appeared to be old ones.
At about 5:30 PM I was E/B on Bushwick Ave and about to turn onto Highland to get to the JRP. I saw an RTS E/B in the west bound lane with a board the size of the old stick-ball strike zone on the back. The board had a boarder of blinking lights and was hung on the lowere part of the bus between the turn/stop signals. No number on the bus. I thought initially that it had lost its brakes and almost crashed into the Sunoco station. It was blocking one of the two turn lanes from Bushwick onto Highland. As I passed it the bus was on a tow truck and I guess the driver was settting up to make a wide turn into the depot's entrance on Bushwick. The bus was one of the RTS's that had the faded stripes. All markings were removed so I'm guessing that it was being pulled in for a final cannibalization prior to being sent to the razor blade factory.
Anybody know anything about this?
#9306WF a/k/a Hart Bus
If you see an old bus with all the markings removed, usually it means that transit sold the old bus to someone. I work out of Jamaica depot and last year they sold a few of the 3900 series to someone and maintainence sanded off all the transit logos. When transit scraps a bus they usually leave the logos on because it makes no difference.
How long does it take before a bus has to be refueled and is this time period longer or shorter for a CNG bus?
It takes about 5min per bus for both types of buses.
The miles operated for both types of buses on a fuel fill is comparable but there are options for the size of diesel fuel tanks and also options for how many tanks and the operating preasure for CNG tanks, so the answer is it depends.
The Orion CNG's that I have seen operate at 3000 PSI for a level fill and the RTS CNG's that we have are full at 3600 PSI. The Orions had larger tanks at lower PSI to achieve comparable milage ranges.
Common Diesel tanks are 90, 110 and 125 Gallons. Intercity buses are more like 135 to 140 gallons, I think.
Jackie Gleason Fuel are of the CNG's to 3000's PSI. One day they might start fueling them to 3600's PSI. Eather way it take about 5 min. to feul the buses.
I remember riding some old look GMC and Mack transit buses in the 1950s. I do not remember which lines or even which Borough. However I do remember the rear door opening automaticly when the passenger stepped down to get off. Does anyone remember the specific model buses that had this feature and where they operated ?
I remember some of those as well on the GM's. Somehow I think some were used on the 1957 TDH 5106's in the 7000 series yet many of those did have passenger operated rear doors. I posed this question a few months back. Can anyone else add to this?
The treadle operated rear doors were a VERY common feature on most GMC old looks as well as buses from other manufacturers.
If I remember correctly, the treadle was activated whenever the driver opened the front door -- or it could be activated all by itself.
The old looks at SCRTD in Los Angeles had the rear door treadles, but the control handle at the driver seat would operate ONLY the front door. To activate the treadle, the driver would press a button next to the front door air handle. Then the treadle would open the rear doors IF someone was standing on it. The rear doors would close after a few seconds, and the only way to reopen them was for the driver to press the button again IF there was a passenger standing on the treadle.
When "motorization" or "bustitution" took place in late 1940's, most of New York's new buses had step treadles on the rear doors, just as treadles had been added to the exit doors of most TARS streetcars when they were changed from two-man to one-man. In my memory, the door closed as soon as you removed your foot from the step. Agility was important. About 1952, I visited Montreal and was surprised to find that the rear door on buses was paddle-operated. A paddle obstructed the top of the steps. When the bus stopped, one shoved the paddle, and, by holding the paddle, one could keep the door open until safely on the pavement. Ten years later, I recall a death on Staten Island when the passenger exited a treadle-equipped Mack and slipped on ice. The door closed, and the rear tire ran over him. The present ability to hold the door open by a handle until one is safely on flat ground is a good safety measure.
Most PCC Street cars have Treadle rear doors also.
On the buses that I drove with Treadles the rear position on the door control activated the treadle, much like the position now activates the touch bars or touch tapes on the doors.
I have NEVER been to Montreal (or for that matter, ridden ANY transt in Canada except Vancouver's "Skytrain") but I have seen that "Paddle-Operated" rear door somewhere here in the United States. The ONLY places I have used trasit in the USA are the NYC, Boston, Philly, DC, areas plus California systems.
Anyone know where that could have been? Did someone in the NYC area experiment with it?
The MAN Artics here in DC have this feature. Not sure how it works.
Speaking of back doors, on some SEPTA buses, you touch a bar to the side of the door and the door opens. How does this work?
What does the bar look like?
NYCT buses have this feature, when it works. Basically, it uses the same pnumatic system that opens and holds the doors for lift operation to open them at a touch. It's a simple momentary contact switch.
-Hank
Treadle operated rear doors were a standard feature on Mack transit buses of post WW II vintage. I clearly remember Surface Transit C45s, C47s, and C50s on the M104 with this feature. On trips to San Francisco in the 1960's, I remember Muni's Mack C49s, as well as Twin and Marmon trolley coaches, with similar rear door treadles. And yes, I noted in another posting the paddle operated doors in Montreal. I remember that from a visit to Montreal in 1973 - a large fleet of GM New Looks - all with double width paddle operated rear doors.
AT the start of the AT&T commerical with Paul Riser (the one with the hot dog stand) it look like the back of the New Flyer FL. It looks like it is in MTA colors and have an MTA logo on it. If someone has this commerical on tape try to stop it to if it is.
Thank
Two suggestions for improving M-15 Service.
1. Start some busses at 79th St. during the 8AM-9AM period, and run them limited to help thin out passenger loads at 79th and 72nd Sts.
2. Extend limited service below Houston St.
I have a question about the Q53. I understand it's a local from Jackson Hts. to Rego Park. Then from Queens Blvd. to the Jamaica Wildlife Center it's an express. Then from Howard Beach to Rockaway Pk. it's a local again.
How does the driver keep track of this? How does he know what to charge someone who gets on along Broadway in Jackson Hts. Does everyone have to get off and reenter the bus in Rego Pk.? Does he have to adjust his fare box?
I was walking to Macy's during the afternoon rush hour and it seemed like a Q53 came along Queens Blvd. every 10 minutes (even though the Queens bus map says 20) and had lots of passengers. Who knows who's a local passenger and who's an express passenger?
Why not just have the Q53 run between Queens Blvd. and Rockaway Pk.? Extend the Q19B (run by the same private bus company) down Broadway and Queens Blvd. to Rego Park where the Q53 becomes an Express. After all, the Q19B is a very short run. And how many people taking the Q53 Express up from the Rockaways also want to go to Jackson Hts.?
Craig
.
The Q53 is a Limited Stop from Woodside to Rego Park 63 Drive.Runs Express with few stops along Cross Bay and in Rockaway Beach to Beach 116 st.I took the Bus for Many Years
Simple solution :eliminate the 21 (80 minute headways) and change the 53 from a express from to a limited ( between 63/Queens Bl to B116th).Stops could be same as QM15 (except 81st ave and Woodhaven and stop at Myrtle instead of Forest Park Drive).
i normally ride the Q53 on occasion. here is how the passenger idea works:
you can get on at woodside and get off at rego park
no stops are btwn Queens bld-63rd dr to broad channel.
fare is normal like a regular route
passengers in broad channel could get on the Q53 or Q21 to Rockaway.
basic buses on the Q53 are now Orion V CNG buses.
thanks.
craig--- you asked how does the driver know what to charge people---even though the q-53 runs express on part of its route, it charges a regular fare for all passengers--- i found that out the first time i rode it about a year ago--- you can ride it with a funpass without a problem---
Actually, it (and the B103) differs from the other private routes in that there is no off-peak coin fare discount. In addition, reduced fare patrons must pay full fare during peak, 75 cents off-peak.
Triboro Q53 (and Green Bus Lines's Brooklyn Manor Express)were created in the mid-50's after the LIRR eliminated its service from Penn and Woodside to the Rockaway Beach Branch (Parkside, Brooklyn Manor, Ozone Park, Woodhaven, Howard Beach, Broad Channel, Rockaway Park). For this reason each one is unique compared to other NYC local or express routes. If you look at a street map you will see how the Q53 parallels the old LIRR service in its entirety.
If this is the cae , then it should make the stops that the Rockaway Branch of the LIRR use to make.
In other words, a bus should be restricted to certain stops now just because a train made those stops 50+ years ago. By the same theory, the Q53 should NOT stop at Broadway/Roosevelt, Broadway/QBL, Queens Center, 63rd Drive/QBL, or the Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge, because the LIRR never stopped at those locations.
Such an argument explicitly assumes away even the possibility that ridership patterns (or even the riders themselves) might actually change over time. Most people would disagree, at least slightly, with such an assumption.
My own preference would be to make it a true "Limited" with additional stops at Metropolitan, Myrtle, Jamaica, Atlantic, 101st, Liberty, Pitkin, 157th, and 164th Avenues. That way, it would completely replace the (useless) Q21 and the Liberty Avenue short trips on the Q11. The non-stop element could be retained as a "Super-Limited" for supplemental beach-season service.
The Q53 takes 50 minutes to get from end to end. If you eliminated the Q21 and made the Q53 pick up instead, then you have double the people going to and from the beach and also it would take double time for it to get to and from its destination. I like the Q53 the way it is now. It's a nice comfortable ride down Woodhaven then to Cross Bay Blvd. However, if you would like to add stops on the Q53's trip to and from Rockaway, why don't Triboro add these 2 stops:
Jamaica Ave and Liberty Ave to serve the subway. Otherwise, leave this bus alone the way it is. Instead of running 1 bus on the Q21, run 4 or 5. It'll make sense.
Q46#8357Gary
i saw this bus on the M6 this morning on 34th St and 6th av. I noticed it has a amsterdam depot sticker on it. did this bus orignally come from amsterdam or westside? And if from WestSide, what other buses are WEstside losing once the articulated buses come over and what depots are the buses going to(i know that #8601 is at Ulmer Park, but have not seen it running).
Once upon a year, 4836 was at Amsterdam. Apparently, nobody ever got around to changing the sticker.
From previous posts we have seen that NYC Transit buses do indeed operate on roadways which are outside city limits. Indeed other municipal transit sytems such as Washington DC or Boston routinely operate into the suburbs on routes that are at least partially in the city. However here in Rockland County where I live, we have a transit route operated by the City of Spring Valley, N.Y. that operates totally from beginning to end outside the city limits and does not at all enter Spring Valley during the course of its run. It is known as Monsey Shopper's bus Route #2 which runs from Pathmark on Route 59 in Monsey to Bates and Horton Drive in Suffern making 7 in between stops on a 30 minute schedule. The service is operated by Spring Valley Jitney which is the municipal transit system of Spring Valley. I wonder if there are any other city transit systems in the USA that operate totally remote routes such as this one.
Washington, DC's transit system encompasses the entire metro area. WMATA is Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority. If NYCT were set up this way, routes would serve parts of Westchester and New Jersey.
-Hank
Actually, both NYC Transit and Long Island Bus are operating agencies of the MTA (a state agency), and thus can (legally) operate on any bus-capable street ANYWHERE within the 12-county MTA district.
In the interest of completeness, the 12 counties are as follows:
Bronx
Dutchess
Kings (Brooklyn)
Nassau
New York (Manhattan)
Orange
Putnam
Queens
Richmond (Staten Island)
Rockland
Suffolk
Westchester
In other words, LEGALLY, a new route from Orient Point to Port Jervis could be created, and operate out of Yukon and Mitchel Field garages. As a Practical Matter, that would never happen (I hope!).
Note, however, that the new NYCT-TWU contract contains references to a "regional bus company." Since the MTA itself is regional in scope (by its enabling legislation), it seems to be a reasonable allowance.
I would like to know why transit keeps spending money changing old 15 and 16 year old buses into coaches when I read that they are buying a few hundred more MCI's. Also, wouldn't they be better off changing the 8000-8399 series since these are newer and still have some life left in them?
THose buses were converted in 1992-93 when an axle defect was discovered on the Blitz Rebuilds in x-bus service.
-Hank
I beg to differ with you Hank. The buses I am referring to were just converted within the last year. I know because I drove them in Queens. When the 4900-5299 series started coming in, Jamaica and Q.V. depots sent alot of the 3900 series buses to Crosstown to be converted to soft seaters. Most of these same buses were then transfered to Staten Island to replace their 1982 soft seat RTS's. Now that Staten Island is getting more brand new MCI's, these 3900 series buses are now starting to make their way back to Queens. Also transit kept boasting they would be converting 1985 RTS's into coaches in their monthly transit newsletter that circulates into the depots. About 2 weeks ago Jamaica received 3967 which had a Yukon decal on it. But this same bus was originally at Q.V. as a hard seater up to a year ago. BIG AL
staten island has no more of the rts express buses. a bulk of them(in fact all of them) were sent either to Westside or Ulmer Park. Ulmer park is running 9200's,9300's,4800's,and some 3800's on the express lines. I even saw some 1800's still running. What will Ulmer park get to replace the 1700's and 1800's buses?
I've seen those 1700s running on the Queens routes. THey line up at 23rd and the FDR...
-Hank
Just today I saw 1761 sitting in the outside Hudson yard with a UP sticker on it.
As more new MCI's are delivered to the depots, they will replace the 3400-3900,4800 and 9000 series buses that certain depots are using. These buses will then be sent to depots to replace the 1700 and 1800 series which can finally be put out to pasture. My guess is that Ulmer Park will get the 9000 series buses. I would still like to know why transit spent money in the first place changing the 3400-3900 buses to coaches. With all the MCI's coming in, the 3400-3900 series can be retired also. BIG AL
ulmer park has the following series in express form:
3099
3800's
1700's
1800's
4800's
9261-9344
they do have the bulk of the 9000's, but dont know if they plan to get the MCI or Orion express buses.
No depot "plans" to receive or lose any buses. Fleet decisions are made well above the depot level.
This is a one time notice letting people know that TransiTALK has been reconstructed and includes a new URL address:
www.transitalk.outride.com
Please visit the new 2000 Version of TransiTALK.
Trevor Logan
Is the M106 interlined with the 96?
Sometime ago, someone posted a few routes would be switiching depots with the new pick in April or later on.
can someone repeat those?
Much of what's posted on this site, with reference to route swaps, turns out to be unfounded rumors. That's what happened this time -- no Manhattan routes are being swapped in April. Route swaps happen when required by operational needs (depot capacity, opening/closing of a facility, etc.). If routes don't need to be swapped, they don't get swapped.
David
All M106 trips are operated by M96 runs, but charged to the M106 budget line.
By the same token (MetroCard), all M18 trips are operated by M3 runs, but charged to the M18 budget line.
I have a question about these buses. I noticed when I rode 1013 on the Q37 that the engines in these buses sound very similar to the ones that were on the Grummans. Is this the reason why these buses have been around for so long? And the reason I do not include 1012 here is because I believe she has a 6v92 engine in her- similar to the ones on the 200-600 series.
Q46#8357Gary
Those old RTS's are still around? Wow. Goes to show how strong an RTS is built. They have the Detroit 8V71 engine in them, but it's surprising that they still have them and haven't all been re-engined with the 6V92.
I drive 1980 RTS's that have had so many modifications that they are just about like brand new ones now. They had the Thermo-King square-back a/c system put on, they were re-engined with 6V92's, and more recently the electrical systems were upgraded to the newset style with the Allen-Bradley PLC computer systems. The engines have been upgraded to DDEC-4 specifications and power modules. Oh, these RTS's rattle a bit, but most of them have a million miles and are still going strong. (We still have 130 out of 175 originals, one was totalled in a wreck when it was four years old and the other 44 were sold off as surplus.)
Were do you work. NYC Transit are getting rid of the 17 year old RTS's. Only a hand full of Express RTS's-03 are still around.
Robert, I think they are talking about the RTS's from GBL which is GREEN BUS LINES. You are right though. Most old RTS's from 1982 and 1983 are no longer in service. In Jamaica depot, we still have 5 or 6 1700 series buses, but I think they will be gone in the near future. BIG AL
I found a photo on a website depicting O scale subway modelling and under the elevated in a photo were a couple Corgi buses. One was a TDH4507 and the other a TDH5301. The thing was, they were both painted and lettered for "New York City Transit Authority".
Does anyone know who makes those decals for that "script" style lettering (along the roofline)? It was dark green on the old look, and light green on the new look. I'd really be interested in obtaining sets of this lettering as I do custom painting of Corgi's for my collection.
If anyone knows of the source, please let me know. I'd be willing to buy some from anyone who has them. (Or if you could get some and mail them to me, I'll even pay your subway or bus fare to get them!)
THANKS!
Iconografix is publishing a new book entitled, "Mack Buses: 1900-1960 Photo Archive".
It will contain 132 b&w photos in 128 pages.
The ISBN #1-58388-020-8
It is available as of May 1, 2000
Price will be $29.95
I sincerely hope that this book will encompass a wide variety of bus photos and not just from one given area or operator.
This is the problem with the GM New Look Bus photo archive book.
Thanks Jorge,I just ordered it!!!!
Where did you order it from? On line?
Amazon.com
I have been off line for a week, could you give me info on the Mack Bus Book?
I have not seen it ,,as of yet
Steve
from what jorge said, you won't be seeing the book until the beginning of may---
i am working on another reappearance of 25 c-49 6000 series macks on the b-68 during the morning rush hour on the day of the book's publishing--- i have had several conversations my friend edgar crazy, internationally known psychotic--- stay tuned to your crystal radio decoder rings....
We had a couple of EX-Twin Cities Macks at one place I worked. They were out of service by the time I got there but the green velour seats still looked pretty good considering they were 20 years old at the time.
Pittsburgh Railways had some 1959 Macks. They only lasted until 1965 when PAT (took over operations in 64) decided to make it's fleet uniform (ie. all GM). These buses were in excellent shape when they were unfortunately scrapped. I saw a few of them in a junk yard about 12 years ago and they still looked good even with the broken windows and sitting in waist-high weeds.
The PAT administration at the time claimed that the Macks all of a sudden developed a serious steering problem and had to be retired immediately for public safety (I'm still laughing at that poor excuse). The truth was they didn't want any non-GM on the property as they kept and continued to operate GM's that were from the 40's and in very poor shape.
I really wish one of those PRCo Macks were saved. They were a pretty good bus from all I've heard about them from the drivers that operated them.
RDChilds
I remember back in the late '60s & early '70s when Gray Line was still owned by Walters Transit, they operated express buses from Manhattan to Jones Beach, Captree, & Robert Moses State Parks under the name Recreation Lines Inc. When the Engelhart family sold Gray Line to Short Line this service was discontinued. I think that Metro Apple Express purchased this line and tried to operate it one summer but it failed like their other transit operations. Does anyone know if this service is still in operation and if so by whom ?
KING SOLOMON
Anyone know if CS Orion 295 uses a Cummins 8.3 engine. It sounded like it.
Yep, buses 291-297 and 299-300 have them.
Q46#8357Gary
Hey Gary!
PICK A COLOR!!! AGGGGGHHHHH!!!! It's burning my eyes!!!!
And remember to close your HTML.
-Hank :)
(No Offense Intended)
No offense taken.
Q46#8357Gary
LETS GO METS!!!
All the way this year!My problem? Getting enough sleep Monday in order to catch a game with a 5AM start! (I work Noon to 9, and with a 1.5-2 hour bus ride each way....)
-Hank
Burning my eyes, too. But it's nto random.
Blue=NYCMTA.
Green=GBL.
Red=Triboro.
And what engine does 298 have?
298 have a standard 9.2L Detroit Diesel Series 92 (6V92-TA) DDEC II, 277 Horsepower Engine coupled to a Allison HTB-748 ATEC Transmission.
Trevor
Thanks!
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! GARY WRONG, DEAD WRONG!
291-294 Have Detroit Diesel Series 50 DDEC III, 275 Horsepower Engines coupled to a Allison HTB-748 ATEC Transmission.
295-297, 299-300 Have 8.3L Cummins C8.3, 275 Horsepower Engines coupled to a Allision HTB-748 ATEC Transmission.
Trevor Logan
The transmission used on Orion's #291-297,299-300 is a ZF590 model (maybe the exact ZF model is wrong, I have to look at my DOB spec's), NOT a Allison HTB-748. If you look at the operators area, you will notice that the transmission selector is a ZF push button selector which is different from the other Orion's that have Allison transmissions.
Please be easy on the fella next time.
With the Detroit Diesel Series 50, its a Allison World B400R, with the Cummins it's at ZF Ecomat HP-590! I went back too! Just never corrected it!
Trevor
Those Orion's (291-294) with the Series 50 engine have a ZF-590 transmission also. This was a test that DOB did to try out the Series 50 engine with the ZF transmission combination. Like I said, the drivers console is different from the other Orion's that have Allison transmission's. If you hear these buses on the road they sound very different.
All the CNG's Orions that Jackie Gleason have the ZF push botton Transmission's as well.
I don't know which transmissions 291-294 have, but I agree with you that despite having the Series 50 engine - they sound different from the other Series 50 equipped Orions. I remember when I first rode 292 on the Q44 in 1994 and I originally thought I was hearing a Cummins engine until I heard 295-297, 299&300.
Wayne
Does MTA have any Detriot Series 40 engines. They are much like the cummins 8.3 but quieter.
Yes, the TA has one bus with the Detroit Diesel Series 40E Engine in it.
It's the 1999 NovaBUS LFS Low Floor Diesel Demo that ran out of East New York and Hudson Pier, and is now on it's way up to the bronx.
It has a 7.2L Detroit Diesel Series 40E, 275 Horsepower coupled to a Allison B400R World, 5 Speed Automatic Transmission.
Other features of that bus is a Carrier Transicold GR60 Apex Roof Mount HVAC, American Seating Metrolite 86 Model with VR-50 Cut Resistant inserts, etc.
R142 Boi 2K
I've decided to do more rosters than what I have. NYBS has just been posted as of today. Check it out.
www.geocities.com/smoke228/NewYorkBusService/index.html
Soon to come:
Jamaica Bus Lines and yes MTA.
Q46#8357Gary
oh yeah?
Trevor
I got a 404 trying to access the page.
i got that the roster doesnt exist
A 404 means "file not found." If it's not found, then it probably doesn't exist. Maybe the URL in the original post was typed incorrectly.
Anyone who wants to see bus rosters can do the following. 1) At the top left of the message index of bus talk you will see "MORE BUS PAGES". Click on that. 2) Now scroll down and click on "BUS ROSTERS ON THE WEB" 3)Scroll and click on "STATES & PROVINCES N - Z". 4)Finally click on "MTA-NYCT BUS ROSTER", assuming you want to look at NEW York City's roster. You can look at any roster you want. Have fun people. BIG AL
Here are links to rosters at TransiTALK!
MTA-New York City Bus
MTA-New York City Subway
Command Bus Company
Liberty Lines Express
New York Bus Service
Queens Surface
Green Lines
Triboro Coach
Bee-Line System
Jamaica Bus Lines
New Jersey Transit Roster
Trevor Logan
www.transitalk.outride.com
QS transferred 282-284, 286-293 to JBL, NOT 271!!! 271 I believe was sent to the scrapper. And there are 50 GBL Orions now, not 44.
Q46#8357Gary
the move from 44 to 50 Orions was effective this morning. not last night. my rosters are done by the moment not for the future!
Trevor
Also that was a typo, I know what went to JBL and GBL!! If you note also that I sated 275-2xx went to other DOT privates, not naming GBL or JBL.
Trevor
Hey Gary, worry about your rosters, TransiTALK does theirs as it is given to them and for the present, not future. Thanks for the update anyways!
Clayton Parker
Head of Technical Administration
claytonparker@mac.com
The subject line is half non-related.
Today (sunday) I saw quite a few '98 Novas, about 10 of them, parked in Hudson's outside yard. Why weren't these buses being used? And 4165 just pulled out as I went by...
Either 1 of 2 reasons why the Nova's weren't being used. 1) maintainence needed them to do some work. 2)They were being used by bus operator's who were keeping them on their swing. BIG AL P.S. I don't understand your subject line at all.
What's a swing again?
Swing is a bus operator's meal break. BIG AL
Isn't the bus given to another run during that time?
I think it was during the 1970s that I remember seeing in the newspaper a bus that was tested jointly by the city and Carey Transportation between NYC & JFK. It ran on regular rubber tires from Manhattan into Queens. Somewhere in Long Island City, the rubber tires retracted and the bus entered the LIRR tracks which took it somewhere in proximity to the Airport. It then left the LIRR tracks and travelled the remaining 2 or 3 miles into JFK on its usual rubber tires. Does anyone remember this experimental coach and if so what ever became of the prototype ?
I don't think the experiment went quite that far as described above.
Maybe I'm wrong and there WAS another experiment that I didn't know of....but I do remember one in the 1960's.
There WAS an experiment with a former Carey bus, a GM PD4106 model, that took place on the old LIRR Creedmoor Spur before the rails were torn up in the 1960's. The rail wheelsets on the bus retracted into the bus's baggage compartments. The bus didn't get used in any regular service; rather it was an experiment for the rail wheels under a bus. There were photos in either Newsday or theold Long Island Press (I forget which one we were receiving at the time....)
Yes Steve, it was a Carey GMC 4106. I saw it in the New York Times on page one of the Metro section.
Do you mean you saw it recently or when it happened?
When it happened back in the 1960s.
Then you saw it in the Metropolitan Report.
YES
No, us old farts saw it back in the 1960's when it happened.
Hartford, Conn., had a similar experimental bus, that was owned by Connecticut Company, predecessor to Connecticut Transit. It was a mid-1960's model 5303, fleet number 1712, and it had retractable wheels. It was tested for use on the rail line out of Hartford's Union Station to Bloomfield and Windsor Locks to the northwest. That rail line comes near Bradley Airport. It never got past the experimental stage. I believe one of the obstacles was the rail union. In the late 1980's and early 1990's, that same rail line was supposed to be the site of Hartford's light rail line, which was eventually killed-off. Hartford is now planning a busway between Union Station and Newington and New Britain to the southwest.
By the way, I have a recollection that the bus #1712 is now at one of the Conn. trolley museums.
In australia and in europe they use guided buses. When they are on a guideway they are steered by a center pipe by side guides. When they come off the guideway the driver stees them normaly.
I took a ride over to Gun Hill yesterday. While there I convinced one of the maintenance personnel to open up the case of one of the RTSs with the blue light filliment to the back of it. Much to my surprise and will be to yours that this was not a flourescent light with a blue sheathing over it. This was a strip row of Blue LED lights. A while back when the Blue lights first appeared, NovaBUS RTS 8813 out of Kingsbridge, sported around a full BLUE LED Destination Sign system on the bus for a while.
So to clear the mystery, this is not just blue sheathing over the regular lights, this is a totally new Blue LED light strip back there on these buses.
Trevor Logan
Oh Yeah?!
Q46#8357Gary
Yeah!
Trevor
I remember that the first TA express bus line from Staten Island was not to Manhattan. It ran from Port Richmond Square to Adams St. in downtown Brooklyn. I forgot what the route number designation was. When I moved from the Island 14 years ago it was cut back to only one run a day in either direction during rush hour. Is that route still running today or was it discontinued altogether ?
It was route #R8X - don't believe it runs anymore.
That was the old X8 (not to be confused with today's X8). It was put out of its misery quite a few years ago.
Since then, several companies have attempted to operate S.I.-to-MetroTech services, none successfully.
I assume those idiots at the TA killed the old X8 before Metrotech opened?
Yes, it was "killed" before Metrotech opened, but as Gotham Bus Co. said, several private attempts to resurrect the service have been made, and none have been successful. Apparently there isn't a sufficient market for it. The X8 ended up being a TA employee shuttle...almost nobody else rode it, and the TA people rode for free even though their passes were officially not good on express buses.
David
The old X8 or the new X8?
The old X8.
David
Was on Rt 106-107 today and saw a Harran Fishbowl. No numbers were on it. Anybody knows how many fishbowls Harran has? Said it was Chartered.Anybody know info about this?
Q46#8357Gary
I don't think they have many fishbowls. Mostly Prevost's and Eagles since they do all charter work and some airline work. Speaking to a driver last summer he told me that they had one fishbowl with a toggle switch for the ignition instead of a button. When he first went to work for Harran (then based in Nassau County) he was told to take a fishbowl for a run. He had to come back into the yard and sheepishly ask a mechanic how to start the bus.
BTW Harran is now in West Babylon off on Edison Avenue on Mahan Street near the cemeteries and Commercial Driver Training Institute.
f/k/a Hart Bus
What's "f/k/a" stand for?
F/K/A is a business abbreviation (pre-internet) that stands for "FORMERLY KNOWN AS" (like "the artist f/k/a prince"). Since we can't have two screen names (one for BT and one for ST) this is how I try to ID myself.
Oh I see thank you!
HEY! We don't need that kind of language here :-)
LOL! :P
Harran was being used as LIRR shuttle service between Hicksville and Huntington while track work was being done.
i just wanted to invite anyone with an interest in greyhound bus lines to check out a club i just started at yahoo... i have long been interested in greyhound, as a rider and as an observer of the equipment and the operations... so if you have any stories to tell or knowledge to share, please drop over to clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/greyhoundthroughexpress
or via through express
greyhoundthroughexpress
that is how i traveled to new york last fall cross country !! man what a trip !!!
salaam--- i think that is how i first came to speak with you--- you mentioned that you had been on the bus for 3 days... that's more than i could stand...
you enjoyed that trip so much, that you drove up and back this time...
Just returned from 4 days of "hopping" between Mickey's four worlds and noticed that Disney uses RTS coaches almost exclusively ... even saw some GMCs still in Disney colors.
Mr t__:^)
Thurston - I hope you had a good time at Disney. I was there too last year. Mickey is also a big MCI fan. I saw lot's of 102A3/C3/D3) while I was there.
Wayne
According to production records I have from GMC/TMC/Nova, they have approximately (off the top of my head...) 170 RTS buses, plus half a dozen fishbowls. Almost all the RTS's are 40-footers, though in the first bunch delivered, 10 or 12 were 35-footers.
They also had some MCI 10D3's, five of them started that portion of the fleet in 1995, so I assume it has grown somewhat since then.
That's something I never saw... A Disney fishbowl bus.
The fishbowls that were down at WDW were second-hand, I believe. I can't recall seeing them on any production lists. But I do remember seeing them in person in 1982, when they had less than three dozen RTS's, a small handful of fishbowls, and they even had one of those Highway Products (out of Kent, OH) "TwinCoach" TC-31 boxes on wheels.
I remember the Twin Coaches when Disney first got into bus operations. They were used as shuttles for the hotels in Lake Buena Vista, on Disney property.
I also have a vague recollection that at one point Disney operated one or two super buses, those truck-like vehicles that operate in Orange County commuter service to LA. I don't know whether Disney still has any, but I think they were the only U.S. operator of a super bus other than O.C.T.D.
They had at least one super bus this past sept. They also
had a couple of BlueBird Citibird Tranists at one time.
The RTS have been retro fitted with electronic signs on
the older ones (they had roll signs) the cyclops brake
light and now high exhaust If i recall right the TMCs were the first ones that had non roll signs
Walt Disney World Transportation System has at least a dozen of those "Superbuses"; I heard 12 mentioned, and I also heard 28 mentioned but nobody seems to come up with concrete information.
Orange County Transportation Authority ended the use of their "Superbuses" awhile back. They first sold three of them to the "Inland Empire Connection" which is a service connecting Riverside and Orange County. It is funded by Riverside Transit Agency, but operated by Laidlaw Transit.
Then OCTA sold three more to Sunbus, the transit agency down in Palm Springs, CA. Another one was converted to a mobile maintenance training classroom. Then, Sunbus bought three more. There are still two stored at th OCTA Garden Grove base awaiting disposition.
There are other operators of the "Superbus" vehicles, but they are not transit agencies. One is Minneapolis-St. Paul Airport; the other is the Los Angeles County Sheriff. Yes, Jail Superbuses. The MSP units are the original demonstrators; the LASD units have conventional (engine-in-front-of-cab) tractors.
Pictures? I've never seen one of these.
-Hank
I forget which issue, but an some OCTD units are in an old copy of Bus World. If no one has them I can dig up a copy (next time I visit my parents) and scan the page. It's basically a tractor-trailer unit with less than 18 wheels. I believe they truck had 2 axles and the trailer had one axle and huge windows.
Wayne
Someone sent me some picks that were taken by Ari. Odd-looking creatures, I assume they had 2-man crews. I can see those things in SI x-bus service, however.
-Hank
Actually, the ones at OCTA had one-man crew. There was a farebox at the forward door, as well as cameras and two-way speakers. The driver stayed in the cab the whole time, except to load/unload wheelchairs. That was done by use of a portable ramp.
Due to "problems" (which everyone here can well imagine), the "Superbuses" were NOT used very long in regular transit service. There was talk of using "light-duty" drivers as conductors but that never came to fruition.
The "Superbuses" ended up their days on an Orange County - Los Angeles commuter route, which had one load point in O.C. and about a dozen or so stops in L.A. Fares would be collected when the bus loaded or unloaded at the Park-N-Ride facility in O.C. Just about all the passengers had monthly commuter passes anyway, so the driver didn't really have to do much oter than jump out of the cab and "guard" the front door while at Fullerton Park-N-Ride.
[... 170 RTS buses, plus half a dozen fishbowls. Almost all the RTS's are 40-footers ...]
Didn't see ANY Fishbowls either. The 40 foot RTS were ferring folks between the parks ... every one was in fine shape, while the MCIs were going other places, e.g. hotels, ships.
Also rode the monorail between Magic Kingdom & Epcot. At MGM they had a old horse car with a trolley pole ... it was a retail stand that had rubber tires added but got it's power overhead ... reminded me of a "kit-bashed" model.
Mr t__:^)
http://www.geocities.com/smoke228/NewYorkBusService.html
There's no index.html. Try again.
Q46#8357Gary
I would just like to know the turnaround routings
for certain terminals on the following routes (I have tried to get this info from the transit authority
in the past, but it is difficult and annoying, so I
hope that you guys can help me out on this):
B35-brownsville(confused on turnaround and stand point)
B39-both terminals
B63-cobble hill
B46,B44-williamsburg
B41-bergen beach
B43-both terminals
B67-kensington
B82-both terminals
M1-south ferry
Bx19-both terminals
M23-chelsea
M57-upper west side
M79-riverside drive(confused on turnaround and stand point)
Thanks, I appreciate it
B63Mike
call me 914 668 9218
Steve
B35 McDonald Avenue buses, after leaving McDonald Avenue proceed west on Church Avenue to 35th Street, turn left, and wait in a triangle formed by 35th Street, 14th Avenue, and Church Avenue. They then proceed east on Church to McDonald Avenue to begin service eastbound.
Sometimes they stop at the stop in front of 3403 & 3409 14th Avenue to pick people up.
This is impossible,3400 blocks would be between 34 and 35 st,,,please correct or explain
FDNY
The 3400 block of 14th Avenue is located between 35th Street and Church Avenue, where 14th Avenue ends. The row of apartment buildings on this block has addresses on Church Avenue and 14th Avenue. From Dahill Road, the addresses go 76 (restaurant? at corner of Dahill and Church), 64, 58, 3403 14th Av, 3409,... I know this because I have family on this block, and occasionally visit there.
You are right,,I apologize
It is part of the regular routing
Eastbound Direction
Steve
The M1, M6 and M15 all terminate at So. Ferry on a closed-off section of street in front of the ferry terminal building. The street is wide enough that they just make a U-turn to get back to State Street (M1 & M6) or Water Street (M15).
The M57 uses the width of Broadway at 73rd St. to turn around. Usually only buses are allowed on Northbound Broadway at 72nd St. The M57 parks there and the M104 uses it as part of its northbound route. When it goes back into service, the M57 makes a u-turn around the island in the middle of Broadway by making a sharp left at 73rd St. It picks up its first passengers after turning right from Broadway onto 72nd St.
The M79 uses a circle below the West Side Highway (at the Boat Basin) to turn around. (Now it must turn around articulated buses.) The circle used to be illustrated on the Manhattan bus map. But since passengers aren't allowed on the M79 west of Riverside Drive, the TA doesn't illustrate the turn-around anymore.
Craig
.
Everything you wrote is (AFAIK) correct, except that the block of Broadway that the M57 used to use to turn around on is now closed. I'm not sure what route it uses now. The M104 runs up Amsterdam to 73rd, left on 73rd, right on Broadway; the bus stop is just north of 73rd.
can someone out there check this out ,,for Buses terminating there
M104
M57
The M104 ,at one time ,ran on Broadway ,Amsterdam,Made left on 72 st,,then right on Broadway
The M57 made Left on to Bwy,to Stand there,returning via Broadway,Left on West 73,,Left on Broadway ,Right on to W 72 st,Westbound
I'm pretty sure the situation on Broadway north of 72nd St. is temporary while road work is done. So for now, the M57 makes its turnaround by making the usual sharp left on Broadway at 73rd St. But its layover is the bus stop on the NW corner of 72nd St. at Broadway.
It gets complicated because this is also a bus stop for the M5 and M72.
I thought the M57 was supposed to be detoured (because of
the construction) via West End, 70th, Amsterdam, 72nd, to
far side of Broadway.
Someone out there who can confirm this ,,which Detour is used??
Steve
Craig,,Hi ,,was this verified??
The M57 can't make the left turn onto Broadway at 72nd as that block of Broadway is closed. I'm 850 miles away now so I can't verify a thing, but two weeks ago I rode the M104 past this point.
I have them all ,including NYC Transit and DOT Routes,again,,call me,,,
914 668 9218
Steve
FDNY
I have the route descriptions from NYCT and DOT/NYC
and Westchester Bee Line,NJT Buses,LI Bus,I t h i n k I can help you
There is a small loop (for the Chelsea Piers comples) at the M23 terminal in Chelsea that it turns around at.
IF anyone needs any help with routings ,,turnarounds,,let me know ,,I will help you
and BTW
The B43 and B48 are changing their SB Turnarounds at Prospect Park BMT Station
B35: Runs down Hegeman to MG. Make a left on MG. Then another left on New Lots. New Lots runs into Hegeman. Returns to normal route.
B44: Runs up Taylor and Roebling Sts to Bway. Make a right into the Bridge Plaza.
B46: Runs up Bway to the Bridge Plaza. Make 2 rights to the stand.
B82: I believe there is a loop at Starrett City.
B43: Prospect Park. Empire left on Washington, right on Lincoln. Right on FLatbush. Right on Empire.
Greenpoint: UP Manhattan Av, left on Commercial St. Turns on a triangle at Commercial and Box Sts.
M1: Turnaround similar to KP on the B2,9,41,46 buses......
This is to the best of my knowledge.........
B46M Limited
The M79 stops at Riverside, crosses Riverside, and circles the circle under the Henry Hudson Parkway. It then comes back up 79th Street. The turnaround is depicted on the map.
How do the M3 and M101 turn around at their northern terminals (Ft. George)? This has always been a question in my mind.
The Buses run via Saint Nicholas Northbound to 193 st,drop off
Proceeed On a Northern and then East Direction on Ft
George av to a off street turnaround--whereas they make a left into this area,,around an island counterclockwise,,and a right on to Ft George Avenue
They now proceed Westerly and Southbound on Ft George Av,,will pickup at W193 st,,then via Saint Nicholas AvSouthbound W 170 st WB,SB on Broaway,,,EB on W 166 st,SB on St Nicholas Av,,etc
Steve
When the TA issues uniforms to bus drivers, how many changes of shirts and pants do they get ? Also are there special light weight Summer uniforms and heavier weight ones for the Winter ? Also, what year was it that the TA stopped requiring the drivers to wear caps as part of the uniform ?
I believe that there is. My first "real job" was as a delivery boy for a uniform manufacturer during the last part of my senior year at Stuyvesant HS (Spring '67). That was the year that the MTA changed all drivers from the drab olive green uniforms to the blue ones still in use today. At the time they were issued both lightweight and winter-weight uniforms.
At the time the MTA awarded the contract to Montgomery Ward, who sub-contracted with several uniform houses. There was a stipulation that those chosen could not manufacturer any other uniforms during this time. Although my employer was not chosen for the job, he got the fallout from the other houses not being able to make Police, Fire, etc.
Typical of government, they were late in letting out the contract so of course, drivers were getting the winter stuff during the summer of '67
#9306WF (formerly known on BT as Hart Bus)
i think its 6 long sleeve 6 short sleeve
2 wool pants 2 cotton pants
4 ties
4 ball caps with depot logo
short jacket
commando sweater
sweater vest
and maybe im forgetting something
i would like to see a turtleneck replace the need for a tie in the winter like they have in Subways
You can get ether 5 winter or 5 summer pants if you don't want to get a mixeds of them. And you also can get ether 2 vest or 2 sweater if you don't want one of eaach.
I remember in the late 1960s when I used to take the LIRR excursions to Mystic, Sunrise Coach Lines used to meet the train at Greenport and shuttle the passengers to the Orient Point Ferry. One of the buses that they operated was a brown and cream colored GMC Fishbowl with reclining coach seats. However it had a unique feature. It had a walk in rear luggage compartment that was accessed from the interior of the coach through a door from the center aisle. In my entire 41 years in the bus industry I never saw a setup such as this.
Also the exterior rear of the coach had a somewhat rounded shape unlike the square shape of the usual Fishbowl, and no rear window. It must have been a custom job.
Sunrise Coach Lines of Greenport operated a line from Greenport to Southhampton via Shelter Island ferries for many years, going at least into the 1970s and maybe beyond. They owned one or two SDM5301s with rear luggage compartments that were built new that way. They also converted one or two TDM4512s to rear luggage compartment configuration.
I don't think that they run that route anymore. Suffolk Transit has a route from Greenport to the Hamptons via Riverhead. When I stayed at a B&B in Southhold 2 years ago, I passed the Sunrise Yard on Main Road. Appeared that they had the Prevosts that are used on the Greenport /NYC run and charter work as well as school bus mini-vans.
Mike, Do you know how many of these Fishbowls GM built and which other carriers besides Sunrise Coach purchased them ? Were they all built the same year ?
KING SOLOMON
I'm not sure any other fishbowls were built with rear luggage compartments. I do know that the sunrise buses were 5301s, making them 1960 to 1962 models. Maybe a bus roster expert on this board could look them up on the delivery list. BTW -- they were non-airconditioned.
Sorry tosay, but the deliery lists do not go into detail as to buses built with those rear luggage compartments. Nor do they indicate which buses were, or were not, air conditioned until the 5305/5306 transit models or the 5303 suburban models (when the "A" suffix was added to the models).
Sorry I ouldn'thlp with all the production records I have, but it was surely intersting to learn of this variation on the theme with those rear baggage compartments. (And it's just one more thing not mentioned in that recently published GM New Look book.....which I will not buy, as it is too localized to just a couple systems that the author was familiar with.)
There were in the 1970s some Fishbowls around that had lavatories installed on them. These were not factory installed but were done by the individual operators themselves. One that comes to mind was an SD #5302 operated by Wagner Tours of North Haledon, N.J. The bus was originally a 53 Pax 1 notch recliner and became a 49 Pax 1 notch recliner after the lav was put in.
Sacramento Gray Line out in California actually had some fishbowls with restrooms. They added the restroom in the rear door well of a transit!! The waste tank was down where the steps were, and the business compartment at floor level.
Only problem with this setup was, people on the right side of the bus behind the doorwell (or crapper-well....) couldn't see forward. But then, that's the way it was on Scenicruisers' left side, too.
The Fishbowl that Wagner Tours had was not a transit but an original SD #5302 coach which he purchased new without the rest room. He installed the rest room in the usual rear of the coach on the passenger side, so no views were obstructed. That same year Wagner had purchased 2 brand new 51 passenger Prevost Champions with Lav as well as the Golden Chariot GMC #4901. The latter was a 47 passenger with Lav which he acquired from ARO Coaches (Villani) of Linden, N.J. and converted to a 51 Pax. Since he wanted to advertise an all lavatory equipped fleet, he installed a rest room in his Fishbowl as well.
well steve, I am sure he will not miss your money anyway. considering that there is NOTHING else out there that compares right now, I and alot of others think the book is great. maybe someone could come up with something else?
Thanks to everyone (including some Q53 riders) who responded to my questions regarding the Q53.
Even though the Queens bus map DOESN'T say it, I understand the Q53 runs as a Limited from the Woodside LIRR station, down Broadway in Jackson Hts. and Elmhurst, then on Queens Blvd to 63rd Drive in Rego Park. That's where it becomes a non-stop express to the Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge in Broad Channel. Then it becomse a limited again to the Rockaway Park Subway Station.
The reason for this unusual routing and restrictions was because it replaced a LIRR line to the Rockaways. Since that rail line made only a few stops en route to the beach, today's Q53 should do the same...even in winter when the passengers are simply commuters who live in the Rockaways or Broad Channel and need a way to get across Queens.
Now please answer this question. Does the fare change? The Queens bus map says in two places (at 63rd Drive and at Broad Channel) that the Q53 charges a "Premium Fare." The line is listed on the back of the bus map with the express buses, not the locals and limiteds. Does the driver change the fare box at those two locations. If you get on in Woodside and get off at Macy's in Rego Park, you're only charged the regular private bus line fare ($1 off-peak)? But how does the driver charge you a premium fare if you go all the way to the Rockaways? How does he remember who's who?
Craig
.
No one answered this question yet. Thanks.
If you go onto Triboro's web site (www.triborocoach.com) you will find the answers to your questions. The Q53 is listed as a limited stop route charging a regular $1.50 fare (used to be $2, I believe). Only difference now is that the $1.00 off peak cash fare does not apply.
Does anyone know if the regular Metrocards and Fun Passes are good on the Q53?
most of the time i rode the q 53 has been with a fun
pass--- i have always gone from rockaway to
woodside--- never in the reverse direction--- i
guess you could also call triboro on the phone and
ask for more info--- 718-335-1000 as of my sep 98
queens bus map
The Q53 is a $1.50 at all times during the day. Also, if you pay in coins, no transfers will be issued. Only with a pay per ride MetroCard or Unlimited Ride MetroCard will you have that opportunity to transfer.
Q53#2821Gary
Any unlimited card will work. School student passes also work.
["Since that rail line made only a few stops en route to the beach, today's Q53 should do the same."]
So the bus should make the same stops that the train did 50+ years ago, and ONLY those stops, BECAUSE the train made those stops? If it were still a train, I might see some sense in that. However, it's not a train, it's a bus.
As I said before, it's not realistic to assume that ridership patterns NEVER change over time.
The people who are going to the beach in 2000 are not the same people who went to the beach in 1950. They are different people, coming from different places, and riding the bus for different reasons. The great advantage of buses over trains is that bus routes can evolve to meet changing needs.
Under the "follow-the-old-LIRR-line-at-all-costs" scheme, the Q53 should not make any pick-ups in Jackson Heights, Elmhurst, or Rego Park, nor should it stop at the Wildlife Refuge, because THE TRAIN NEVER STOPPED IN THOSE PLACES.
That's just plain silly. The bus should serve the people, not vice versa.
Ummm, it would stop at ReGo Park, the LIRR did.
Two more batches of buses have left QSC, last week, as follows:
- To Jamaica RTS's: 288, 89, 90, 91, 92, & 93. 285 will go as soon as we replace the engine.
- To Green Orion V diesels: 700, 01, 02, 03, 04 & 05
It is our sincere hope that they give their new operators many years of good service.
BTW, that's it from our roster as we're down to our "authorized" fleet size, I won't say the number because I don't think it's 100% official yet, but will say that we have 325 coaches in service plus a few more that just need fareboxes.
Disclaimer: I'm not a official spokesperson of QSC or nycDOT.
Mr t__:^)
do u plan to replace the MCI buses assigned to QSC that have no wheelchair accesibility?
[do u plan to replace the MCI buses assigned to QSC that have no wheelchair accesibility?]
nycDOT has made that commitment, as well as replaceing buses that are retired with a non-diesel version, i.e. not exclusively CNG.
To that end four single door MCIs were purchased & they are looking at others. Meanwhile we are spending serious money on existing MCIs to add a few more years of life to them. Also, you probally know that we have 82 Orion V CNGs currently in Express service. Our transportation makes every effort to put them on routes where we have regulars who need the wheel chair lift.
Disclaimer: I'm not an official spokesperson of QSC or nycDOT.
Mr t__:^)
Thanks Thurston! I just wanted to say that I really feel for the Orion V's that are going to GBL. I've ridden a couple of them and those nice comfortable seats were damaged and the buses were quite dirty inside. I ride their sisters often (those that actually went to WMATA) and both the exteriors and interiors and in excellent condition.
Wayne
this is something i do not understand. how is it that NYBS can have MCI buses that have accesibility to the handicapped(wheelchair at the front door) but Jamaica, Command, Triboro, Green and Queens Surface do not have any wheelchair acesibilty on their MCI.
I am not handicapped that would require me to use a wheelchair, but id be upset that these buses do not if i did have to use it. What buses are comning to replace these buses at those DOT lines?
I understand, but only a few NYBS (1700 series and 3100 series at Liberty Lines Express) have wheelchair lifts. At NYBS and LLE you can request a lift equipped bus by calling them in advance (at least 24hrs, I believe), but I was guessing that NYC-DOT did not think it was necessary for all of the suburban coaches to have lifts. Unlike NYBS and LLE the other NYC-DOT companies use transit buses (with lifts) on express routes as well as the MCI Classic suburban.
Wayne
The liftless busses will be replaced with Orion V suburbans, which are just transit busses with soft seats. They suck! There are much too many sideways facing seats, many of which have nothing to do with being a convertible wheelchair seat. This kills seating capacity in a bus which ostensibly should be for sitting only (if I were to stand, I'd save my money and take the subway and local bus). Only forward facing seats have high backs. In addition, the luggage racks and individual reading lamps are gone. The TA took the private express coach model, improved upon it and adopted it as it's own (at least on S.I). The privates took the old TA model, WORSENED upon it and adopted it as it's own. TA RTS and Orion coaches don't have as many sideways seats.
While not exactly related, the dick^H^H^H^Hprivates replaced the touch strips for stop request with pull cords, forcing many to stand up, making it harder for people in the aisle to reach and making it harder for many seated people to reach. At least they put in the "air assist" feature on the rear doors and installed stop requested lamps (prevents people from playing with the bell).
"Only forward facing seats have high backs."
Not true, Washington DC's WMATA is a firm believer in the sideway high back seat which is on 5 of their Flxible METRO-Ds, 2 1992 Orion Vs and there recent aquisition of Orion V Suburbans. I was down in DC where they use Suburban ORION V Suburbans with highback front and side seats, BELOW IS THE PHOTO:
Also the Wheelchair lift equipped MCIs at Liberty Lines Express and New York Bus Service has sideway sitters with High Backs!
Trevor Logan
Here is WMATA's Flxible METRO-D with High Back Sideway sitters:
Trevor
He didn't say none, he's talking about the NYCDOT buses. What I really hate about the Classics is the immovable armrests. If you're slightly large, or seated next to someone who is, it digs right into you. At least on the TA suburbans (Orions and Novas) the armrests are movable.
The TA Orion and Nova suburbans have a 3" platform over the floor to allow mostly forward-facing seats. The only sideways seats are the wheelchair seats, and the seats directly in front of the rear door on the right side.
-Hank
"The only sideways seats are the wheelchair seats, and the seats directly in front of the rear door on the right side."
Not on the new novas!
No, not on the Novas, but yes on the Orion coaches.
-Hank
When you say the Classics, do you mean the DOT MCI Classics? These coaches do not have armrests on the seats. The seats in those are also on the platform, though I don't think it is as high up as the MTA Orions & RTS's, since sitting where the wheels are happens to be an uncomfortable affair.
Just out of curiosity, for anyone who has rode on the older MTA RTS express buses and the newer DOT Orion express buses: The seats look to be the same frame, layout, etc., but on the DOT's, do the seats seem just a bit narrower or is it just my imagination?
Liberty Lines Classics do indeed have armrests on the aisle.
-Hank
Yes,
The seats on the older GMC RTS Suburbans and the NYCDOT Orion V Suburbans are the same model seat,
The American Seating Model 6566/6567/6570 Seat
American Seating offers this seat in three different sizes, thus the different numbers, but for looks, styles and optional features it's essentially the same seat.
Explaintion:
6566/6570 is 36 7/32" Wide
6567 is 35 7/32" Wide
6567 & 6570 has the armrest feature, while the 6566 does not.
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK has a new URL address,
http://street.to/transitalk
Please take note.
Have very blessed day!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
I saw #574 twice. Once on the Q44, and most recently on the Q20B
Did anyone notice the rear sign? Combination LED and flipdot, in a different arrangement than the newer buses.
I think bus 558 has it also.
Q46#8357Gary
What transit should do is replace all the buses with those new bright yellow signs that are on some of the Green Lines Orions. I saw 1 or 2 Orions from CASEY Stengel depot with them. They look great and you can read the sign from half a mile away. BIG AL
5503 on GBL has the signs, although the route appears twice on the side, once in the long, narrow sign that would say
Q60 MANHATTAN
and again on the sign that just displays the route. Wouldn't this sign be better at the back of the bus?
522 out of CS has this type of sign.
4961 out of Command has the signs too.
5503 on GBL has the signs, although the route appears twice on the side, once in the long, narrow sign that would say
Q60 MANHATTAN
and again on the sign that just displays the route. Wouldn't this sign be better at the back of the bus?
522 out of CS has this type of sign.
4961 out of Command has the signs too.
I agree. They do look nice.
I just read the new rosters for command that they are getting 18 Orion V buses in service. Are these buses replacing the RTS buses that they have(the 300's) or are they only going to express routes and what are the numbers? Please let me know.
thank you.
I believe that these are locals replacing the remaining GMC RTS-04/06 300 series at Command, If I counted correctly there is 10 or so left.
Trevor
The 18 buses are supposed to be transit versions. They should be in service by mid april. The remaining GMC RTS are in bad shape as Command has to use their TMC RTS, MCIs, and Orions on the B-100 to meet service requirements. I would expect some of these new buses to run on the B-103 and you know eventually you will spot one in express service. I was not given the #s these buses are supposed to be. Probably 4976-4993 but thats just a guess.
Kevin
i am currently looking around for RTS in ho scale(and not the type you have to put togehter). If anybody knows if road champs, for example is comning out with buses in RTS designs,let me know. i would be interested in buying a few for ho scale.
I too am on a search for the "holy grail". I still believe that Road Champs did some in RTS slope back but probably did not do very many. One website I e-mailed with that question told me that I did recall correctly but few are around. I have not seen them on E-bay although I check daily. I guess our best hope is to hit every garage sale and hope one comes up from the bottom of a toy chest.
Another suggestion is to hit liquidation stores that might sell older merchandise or hope that a train and hobby store (or dealers at shows) have them..I know for a fact that Ashville Diecast in N.C. does not have them anymore. Good luck on your search.
#9306WF f/k/a Hart Bus
If ANYONE comes across ho scale road champs in the RTS design,please email me at the following address. WILL PAY for these models if you are able to guess
pingu45@aol.com
really looking..only have grummans. love to see a pic or get a few rts buses,so if anoyne has them,or knows any store to cehck,please let me know.
I e-mailed Road Champs awhile back and they swear they never made them.
Nowadays it's a feat in itself just to get a reply from Road Champs, never mind some useful informaton.
There were some RTS's made that were very similar size (1/76 size, English OO scale) to the currently available GM fishbowls that have been showing up in chain drug stores on the west coast. They were painted EXACTLY like the fishbowl -- all white with a light blue stripe and "New York Bus" lettering. Some also came with red stripes and said "Metro Transit Authority". The RTS's got away before I could nail any; I have a truckload of the fishbowls though!
The slope back (RTS02) were imported from China via HOTWHEELS.
My Pirate Model RTS-04 kit is one the most expensive kit I ever bought.
the rts II-02 i have(30 in fact)plus i have the RTS bus that says(new york city bus)-10 of them. Currently i am getting the orange color of the rts bus that has a "M" on it.
It is so hard to find ho scale buses that are worth buying. model kits are cool,but they are hard to put together. If anyone knows of new buses in ho scale(like gmc new looks, for instance) please let me know.
thank you
Yes, Mattel "Hotwheels" made a sort-of-HO scale RTS, but it was NOT proportioned very well.
They came in SCRTD colors, and a yellow plastic "School Bus" as well as a "psychedelic" paint scheme. They haven't been imported in ages.
Pirate Models (from England) made two versions of the RTS -- a slope-back, and the square-back. I bought mine when they were $27.95 each, but I understand nowadays they are around $65-70 each!!! They are NOT easy to assemble and get looking right.
Then there's those "nameless" brand RTS's that showed up a coupoe years ago in 1/76 scale (close to HO but no cigar....)
Did I read your right? Some of the fishbowls came in red with Metro Transit Authority? These are the same Chinese toys seen around? I know of the blue one and the silver one, plus the white NYCBus version, all still available in the city.
Joe Caronetti
i knew of a place that had them in orange and had "m" on them. I would love metro transit authority ones,though.
No, it was the RTS that came with the red/orange stripes and the "M" on them -- depicting LACMTA.
I remember seeing an RTS bus (somewhere in the 300s or 400s) with a sign similar to what the MTA 3000 series has. Anyone know what the number(s) are for these buses?
#341-#356 had this. dont know if they are still running or not.
351-356 are not running they are currently parked at Varsity's yard and have had their Command logos removed. They are 1984 GMC RTS-04. They had dark tinted windows and suburban style seating. They were not wheel chair equppied.
Kevin
Actually, the seats were low backed throughout the bus (as opposed to high backed for forward), and they were vinyl, not fabric like on a real express coach.
The sign looked like this:
B100 MILL
BASIN TO
KINGS HIGHWAY (Separately)
The sign looked damaged (bad dots), there were no side signs or rear signs. The TMC RTS-06 CNG Suburban and Orion V CNG Suburbans have front and side signs and a rear sign. The GMC RTS-04 (it's 04, right?) has front and side rollsigns but no rear signs, the two roll signs are cranked separately.
The seats were suburban style green low back seats without armrests. Next time i'll be more specific.
Why did Queens Surface RTS's (24-274) never have side rollsigns. Is it just too much of a bother, changing the sign on the front then going across and change the side sign, that they never had the signs? Is there any way to make the rollsigns change at the same time?
I'm pretty sure those Queens/Steinway Transit RTS 04, 06 did have side destination signs. The just stopped using them and it appeared that they painted over the display window. I guess they didn't want to use them. The same sort of thing happened years ago with the NYCTA/MABSTOA 9000 series Flxibles. I remember that some TA depots (especially) Flushing and Queens Village were really good about using the side destination sign. Over at MABSTOA this sign was often not used. It was usually at the end of the roll. In fact when they went to different depots they didn't even replace the side signs.
Wayne
I wonder what will become of them...
How many of you attended the public hearing about LI Bus cuts at Nassau County Medical Center today?
Well when I got there were crowds of people outside. Apparently, MTA Long Island Bus intentionally or unintentionally picked a very small conference room to hold the hearing. I never got in to hear any of the speakers.
There was a heavy police presence. They told people, even disabled people to wait outside in the windy conditions.
This was totally unacceptable. Not only did more people not get in to hear the speakers than did, there was no way to even hear this so called "public" hearing. They could've put speakers outside at least to broadcast audio from inside.
Didn't the MTA know this would bring alot of people? Did they pick such a small place to hold the hearing on purpose?
These cuts are crazy enough. I waited for a few hours to get in to no avail. There was a lot of news media there, like channel 2,4, and News
12. I heard on the news the hearing is running very late, and was still going as of 10pm.
It is such a shame more people couldn't get in to hear what the speakers had to say. But the crowd there showed that people were quite angry over the proposed LI Bus cuts, and that the MTA should do anything in it's power to stop them. Everybody thinks only NYC deserves frequent bus service and a mass transit system. But the MTA has forgotten that plenty of people who live and work in Nassau county don't have a car and depend on the bus system. And those people deserve better than the kind of reception the MTA gave them today.
Keep in mind that MTA, through Long Island Bus, is merely a contract carrier for the County.
As a result, it adds service when/if the County chooses to pay, cuts service when the County chooses to hold back, and holds its hearings (not "listenings") where the County says to.
The funding brakedown may shed a little light on their mindset:
Fed. 5%; MTA 26%; County 28%; farebox 41%
I my deals with them (colleague to colleague) they seem to savor their independence from the MTA & recently I think they've done a fine job of turning the company around (maint., new coaches, etc.). If these cutbacks go thru it will take them a very long time to recover from them, i.e. lost customers who won't come back, etc. Some Nassau County & State Legislators want the MTA to make up the difference, but then the MTA will turn LI Bus into a LIRR feeder system which won't be good for many folks that use LI Bus to get to and from spots within Nassau.
BTW, Newsday had a small fluff article about this in Tuesday's paper.
Mr t__:^)
Why would MTA want to make LI Bus a LIRR feeder system? Most riders don't use it for that purpose, this would only discourage ridership.
The MTA needs to think of Nassau county being more like Queens with bus routes, not like some isolated suburb.
Why do LI Bus workers favor being independent from the MTA? I think NYCT maintanance of buses on average is better than LI Bus. On the NYCT buses I've been on they are cleaner and in general in better shape. And the air conditioning is always on in summer and heat in winter. On LI Bus it's not always on, and often locked windows can make the buses uncomfortable in summer.
Also I've seen more breakdowns with LI Bus than with NYCT. In general, NYCT buses seem more reliable.
This is just what I observed by riding the different buses. In NYC they take transit seriously, in Nassau county, they don't. Many people use LI Bus routes, many of the busy ones like the N20/21 and N6 are just as busy as NYCT routes. In rush hours, often reverse commuters, the N20/21 is more crowded than the Q12. Nassau county is more like Queens now and cannot afford to have it's buses cut back. There's alot of working poor living and working in Nassau, who depend on transit just like in Queens.
With over 100,000 riders daily, LI Bus needs to be looked upon as a neccesity just like the city buses are, not some county operation that is effected by the whims of the budget.
why dont they do the same thing for suffolk transit as well? that system doesnt run on sundays,after 7(on some lines during the week) and on major holidays. that's pretty annoying. why dont they run some lines on sunday,like the S1 for example that runs via route 110? they could sent it to Sunrise Mall on Sundays to connect with N71,N19 and N55 lines.
Saw 1176 on Q60 tonight and even though signs weren't working, you can clearly see the blue lights on the rear sign of this bus. Be on the lookout!!!
Q60#1149Gary
Since someone asked about several turnarounds around the city, I've always thought the Northern turnaround for the Bx9 was dangerous. The driver basically is making a U-turn in the middle of the block on Broadway, just before the Yonkers border.
If I remember right, there's no parking on either side of the street and I believe the sidewalk on the Eastern side of Broadway has been adjusted to give the buses more turning room. But the driver is still making a U-turn without the aid of a traffic light. If someone's parked where he shouldn't, the driver sometimes has to back up to complete the U-turn.
Isn't this dangerous? Maybe a violation of TA policy and bad for insurance rates?
The M57 also makes a U-turn on Broadway at its Northern terminus but at least on the Upper West Side, Broadway has a traffic island in the middle and a traffic light at 73rd St. so there's nothing illegal about this U-turn.
Are there any other places in the city where a bus has to make a U-turn in the middle of the street to change its route direction?
Craig
.
Yes, just a few blocks away on Riverdale Avenue, the Bx7 and Bx10 also make a middle-of-the-treet U-turn.
Try the B63 on Atlantic Av,west of Furman St
I also Believe the B25 pulls someone similar nr Jewe Square at Alabama Av
The M1 M6 and M15 are pulling this move now,,
on State ,the stop IFO the Ferry terminal,,,and then U Turn on State,,,at South Street,,Proceeding up Westbound on State,,,The M15 makes that first Right turn ,,the M1 and M6 continue
The B31 at Gerritsen Av nr Lois Av
The Bx4042 on Harding Av at Balcom
The Bx29 City Island Terminal
M10 at 159 st
The Q74 and Q46 make U-turns on Queens Boulevard.
New York City Omnibus' route 6 Broadway made a u-turn at 7th Avenue and 59th St.(Central Park South).
The February 1969 issue of Motor Coach Age has a great cover photo showing Yellow Coach model 718 fleet number 203 doing the u-turn.
Bx1 Riverdale av at 230 st
Bx2 Sedgeick Av Av at Ft Indeplendnce and Facing North again
Bx7 Riverdale Av Stand facing NB ,,,make U-Turn at W263 and head SB
Bx9 Broadway NB ,,make a U turn at W263 ,,And Stand,,then proceed SB on Broadway
Bx10 Riverdale av NB,pass Ellsworth Av,make U turn ,pass Ellsworth Av,and Stand SB Riverdale
Bx15 LaSalle Trips
,,WB 125 st,,SB on Bwy ,U turn at LaSalle<,NB Bwy and Stand
Bx18 E 170 ,,U turn at Sheridan Av head WB on E170
Bx19 Broadway Trips,U turn at W 147 st
Bx19 u turn South of Fordham Road
Bx20 Henry Hudson NB Stand,,,U turn at 246 St
Bx22 past Norton Av,L into off road area,onto Zerega av,off road again,,make right onto Castle Hill Av
BX39 on White Plains NB ,,,,then proceed U tuyrn at W 212
Bx27 Soundview Av,last stop,,,proceed,past Cornell Av,,Left into Off road termianl Area,,,make right onto soundview and return,,stop Before Cornell Av
Bx39 ,,,same
BX40 on Pennyfield Av,past the gate,Left into Lay over area,,stop,,,,counterclockwise loop
BX42 Harding Av,,U turn at Balcom Av
Bx55 White Plains,,U turn at 212 st from Gun hill area
B1 and B49 Manhattan BEach
Oriental Blvd,,make right into off road area,,and stop,,,then make a left onto Oriental
B2 B9 B49 B41 B78 Flatbush U turn at Av v
B7 Flatbush Av ,Kings Hwy
,WB,,,U turn at Ryder St,And head EB on Kings Hwy
B13 U turn ,,South of Vandalia Av,,Counterclcokwise,,off road Loop
B14 U turn on Eastern Pwy ,,at Schenectady ,,and Stand at Utica,on Eastern Pwy
B17 Seaview Av,,,end at 108,,,before 108,turn left into a off road loop.and right onto Seaview Av
B25 on ENY at Alabama Av,,,stnd,,,then U turn at ALabama Av,Wb on ENY
B31 Geritsen Av,,after Lois Av,make a left into an off road loop
B35 on 39 St,Make R on to off road Loop ,,,,left onto 39 st ,,and Stand there
B70 samd
B39 on Allen st,,,U turn at Rivington St,,and Stand at Delancey st
B42 Canarsie Loop,,stand N of the Belt
B48 -not on Maps
via Nassau Av,Varick AvB51 Park Row,,U Turn before Broadway
B63 Atlantic Av,,proceed past Furman St,U turn ,and Stand there
B67 McDonald av,,stnd at Cortelyou,,U turn and no NB
B82 Seaview Av,,stand before entering Hornell Loop,,,then make Left,counter clockwise around the loop,and r on Seaview AV
B83 same
Q59 Queens Blvd Main Road,,make U turn at 63 Drive,,stand AFTER Junction Blvd
M1 State St,,to Ferry Terminal
make a U turn at South St,and proceed back on State
M6 Same
M3 and M101
Ft George from the 193 St terminal ,,proceed NB and EB,,,ane make a Left counterclockwise loop into off road loop area,,,make r on Ft George,,and head back to 193
M7 7 av NB to stnd at IR T station ,,,then Uturn at W149,heading SB on 7 Av
M8 around the Jacob Riis Circle,,,,terminal in both directions
EB,before Av D
WB after D Av
M10 Fred Douglas Blvd,,,terminal ,,,buses U-turn nr exit of NB FDR at W159
M15 Park Row,,U turn before Bwy ,,before Beekman St
M15 South Ferry,via Water St,State St,to Ferry ,,,stand,,,U turn via State,,South St,State,,and make R on to Water St,,1 block from U turn
M79 W79 to stand before West side Hwy ,,then around the loop after West Side Drive Entance
M103 Park Row,U turn before BWy ,,stop and stand before Beekman St
Q13 and Q16 Ft Totten
after CIP ,,stand on 212 St,,then make a counterclockwise loop off road,,make a right on 212,,and pick up
Q42 please verify,,
via Sayres Av,179 Place,110 Av,180 st
or
Sayre av,L on to 180 st,,,backup past Sayres Av,,and make a left onto Sayres
Q46 QUeens Blvd
pickup,,then make a u Turn at 77 Av
Q74 make a u turn at 76 Av,and pcik up passengers
Q76 Springfield Blvd,make a u Turn bet 145 road and 145 Av,,and stand there
Q85 via 243 to Huxley ,,,,stop before Huxley st,then via 147 Av,Edgewood Av,Brookville Blvd,,147 Av,,stand after Huxley St
Bx28 Valentine Av,U turn at 192 St
Bx29 Rochelle St,,past Belden St,make a U turn ,,some do it past Rochelle St
Bx34 via Katonah Av,at 242,head into the Van COrtland East Park Entance,,,left into off road loop
40===Western Av,Left into Howland Hook ,to gate,,U trn and stand before Western Av,,then R on to Western Av
46 South Av,U turn into Shopping Area,,stay ifo Caldors,,,make a fast Left,and fast right on to South Av
52 Seaview Av,Right onto mason Av , then make a fast right ,then a left,,to stand ifo North Wing Ambulatory clinic,,,then ,,l and l again onto Mason Av
54 Breille Av,make a left into the Gate of Seaview Hop ,then remain on Selkoff Lane ,,and Ornstein Lane to Stay at the Robitzek Bldg,,then U turn back to ORnstein Lane,,Selkoff Lane ,and Breille Av
57 same
S62 St COllege,,From Victory Blvd,pull in,make a uturn ifo Guard Shack and pull out
S62 Victory Blvd,past Wild Av,and Con Ed,make a left counterclcokwise loop around off street property,,,and r ono Victory
Hylan Blvd and richmond avLoop is on Hylan Blvd,West of Richmond Av,,on the NB Side of Hylan Blvd,,or Ferry Bound Side of the street
effecting S54 and s79
The loop on Hylan at Richmond (an old trolley loop!) is for short-turn s78, s59, and s54. Not really a u-turn like what the Bx29 does.
The s62/92 uses the loop at the entrance to CSI in front of the guard shack. Also not really a u-turn.
The s46 turns into the parking lot at the soon-to-be Bradlees. The section of the lot it uses is only for the bus.
The s54 and s57 use the large turnaround area in front of the Robitzek building. They used to go to the old EMS HQ there as well, going around the building.
-Hank
At South Ferry, there is an island on State St. I think he is talking about streets that do not have an island in the middle...........
B46#5085Mike
I listed everything,,Off road turnarounds,,u-Turns,,to incorporate a few inquiries that people have been making about the Bus Routes and thier terminals
Steve
Then you missed the M57 (before the construction began) west/north terminal and the M60 west/south terminal.
The M60 isn't a u-turn. The bus goes south on West End to 106th, left on 106th, and left on Bway. In my opinion, that is circling a block, not a U-Turn.
That is what I said,,that is why I DID NOT Include this in my list
BTW
BTW.I have the Face sheets
Listing the Routings and Run and Run Offs,,and Relief points for the Drivers.Operators
Steve
Can you put them up on BT, or e-mail/scan them to me?
That is incorrect. I had thought the M60 turned as you describe until I first rode it on November 22, 1999. At that time, the M60 line on the bus stop sign on EB 106th on the near side of Broadway was taped over with masking tape (or something that looked like masking tape). In fact, much to my surprise (as I was expecting the turnaround you describe) the bus stopped on Broadway between 107th and 106th. The buses line up along that block of Broadway, and when they're ready to begin the trip back to La Guardia, they u-turn and stop at the shared bus stop with the NB M104 on the other side of Broadway.
When I again rode the M60 from La Guardia in March, I transferred to the M104 at 116th instead of 106th to avoid having to walk across 106th with my luggage to make the transfer. I can't say for sure where my bus would have stopped but there were one or two buses lined up on that block of Broadway.
So -- in November 1999 the M60 did u-turn on Broadway at 106th, and I think in March 2000 it did the same. I suppose it's possible that the route has since reverted to going around the triangle, but I doubt it.
As for the M57, it used to make a similar u-turn on Broadway at 73rd. It no longer does, as NB Broadway is closed between 72nd and 73rd.
I did not know that ,,at 106 ,the U turn arrangement
Also ,,the M57 uses 70,,Amsterdam,,and 72,to stay at the Far side of Broadway ,on 72
Thanks for the M60 INfo
There was a time when the M60 used the triangle at Broadway and 106 St. as its turnaround, the same as the M116. But I guess the northern side of 106 St. between West End Av. and Broadway became too crowded with both bus routes. So back to parking the M60 buses on the Southbound side of Broadway before 106 St. and having the M60 turn around using the island in the middle of Broadway at 106 St.
The M60 uses streets to turn around,,does not us an island,or off the road loops ,,etc
The M57 uses (or had used,) the Island,or u-turn,,or off the road Loops,,I did include this one,,and I was incorrect,,due to contrcution issues
Steve
That turn for the Bx9 can be dangerous. The good part is that there are traffic lights 1 block north and south. The problem is that the one to the south is a Bronx intersection and the other is a Yonkers intersection which mean these lights are no at all in sync with each other. If they were in sync - they are close enough to the intersection that the Bx9 would be able to make it's turn safely while those lights were red for Broadway traffic.
On Riverdale Ave the RTS and Grumman 870 (when NYCTA still had them) can make turn without reversing depending on the driver of course, but I've never seen an Orion V make turn without backing up.
Other turn arounds like this one are:
Bx1 North
Bx2 North
Bx3 North
Bx12 at Sedgewick Ave
Bx13 South
Bx19 North
Just to name a few...
Wayne
BTW-The Bx9 used to do a U-turn at W Farms Square when the layover area was on E. Tremont Ave near DeVoe Ave/177th Street.
The turnaround from the stop is via Fordham,,Left onto Webb Av,,,fast left onto Sedgwick av,and left on Fordham Road
Right on to Webb Av,,then left onto Sedgwick Av---correction
After crossing University Heights Bridge, Bus travels up 207th St. to Broadway. Right on B'way (terminal) right on Isham St. Right on Sherman Ave. Left on 207th St.
many of the buses reverse at Sedgwick Av via Webb Av
The Bx12 pattern is as follows:
Short Trips - Pelham Bay to Sedgwick
Long Trips - Bay Plaza to Broadway (Limited on weekdays)
One of the trades I get is Metro Magazine. In the January issue is an article by Lenny Levine about a new kind of bus service that is supose to be cheeper and more flexible then building a Light Rail system. It's called BRT, Bus Rapid Transit .... hmmmmm I seem to have heard that term before and it didn't have much to do about buses ????
Lets see now .... oh I know BRT has someting to do with Brooklyn and TROLLEYS !
Mr t__:^) ... and I'm not even the BRT, errr BMT man of SubTalk fame.
The Ausies are big into guided buses. A bus steered like a slot car until the ROW ends then you just drive it.
i have seen this bus for the last 2 days. today, i got a closer look. It was all white,with a apple in the front of the bus. The sign said MANHATTAN-ALL STOPS. The Number on the bus was #104. It was going uptown on Madison Avenue. It had a 718 and a 914 number on the back of it,but did not get the number.
I would like to know what route this is. Is it from bklyn? I dont think its a religious bus, cause i swear i saw women sitting in front. if anyone knows,let me know.
p.s. i saw the bus on madison Av near 34th st around 8-8:10 A.M.
I'm guessing that it may have been former #104 from Red Apple in Hoboken. I believe that when Academy took over the Red Apple Hoboken-PABT route, some of the former Red Apple Flxibles wound up at Private Transportation in Brooklyn. That, of course, doesn't explain how the bus wound up in Manhattan, unless Private has a route there or another operator wound up with #104. Red Apple obtained most of its buses second-hand, which might explain the other numbers you mention.
It is indeed ex Red Apple 104 and probably was at Private Trails. Franny Tours of Brooklyn now owns it and is operating it on their own one bus line from the 3rd Ave/65th St area of Brooklyn to Manhattan. Franny Tours is operated by one of the partners in the old Fiesta Coach Co which I believe had the BM15 express bus franchise before selling out to Metro Apple express.
I saw #4567 yesterday on the Q17 route. The windows on that bus looked strange. The bottom half of each window (except for the first and last on the bus) had openable portions. Anyone else see it? Any other buses like this? Why is this being done?
this is the ONLY bus that i have seen within ny that has this. When I was in Chicago last year, all the NOVABUS RTS buses had this. Don't know why only #4567 did it,maybe it cause the numbers are in order.
I don't think 123 has it, or 8901 (8, 9, 10, 11).
4567 was retrofitted with the "Chicago-style" windows in the early 1990s. Former NYCT President Alan Kiepper had it done.
David
Could somebody tell me why did the Bx30 was remained to Bx19 and the Bx34 to Bx6 in what year was it changed.
The change was made in the spring of 1984 when Bronx service was revisied. At that time West Farms Depot was closed and Walnut was opened to replace it.
Why was Walnut closed so soon? Where was it?
What now defunct depots had logos and what did they look like?
Walnut Depot was located at 900 East 132nd Street (at Walnut Avenue). It closed because of a political deal...
Gov. Pataki made a deal to sell/give the site to Rupert Murdoch for use as a printing facility for the N.Y. Post. At the time, it was forseen that the new Coliseum would be completed to replace Walnut.
However, Murdoch soon got impatient, so NYCT was basically ordered to give the building to Murdoch, with or without a replacement.
What you said was true Walnut was closed due to a political deal between the State and the New York Post. Before the Post decicded to buy the building Walnut was supposed to have been the new CMF facility for the DOB upon the reopening of Colisueam .
The current Bx19 was created from the former Bx30 and Bx31.
The old Bx30 (149th Street Crosstown) ran from 149th/Bruckner to 145th/Broadway. The old Bx31 (Southern Blvd) ran from the Botanic Gardens to 133rd/St. Ann's. The restructuring of 1984 attached the crosstwn component to the busier section of Southern Blvd above 149th Street.
The lower section of the old Bx31 was attached to the old Bx3 to form what is now the Bx17.
Could somebody tell me about these bus routes from what depot they came out in the 1980's and early 1990's:
Bx19
M5
Bx6
M2
M3
Bx7
M100-I am not pretty sure if the M100 came out of the Walnut depot back in those days because i seen stickers of Walnut depot on the M100.
The M-100 originated at Amsterdam then was switched to Kingsbridge in the early 80's, then switched to Walnut after Kingsbridge closed. I'm in the military stationed in Norfolk, VA and haven't rode the M-100 since 1992, but, I believe they're back at Amsterdam.
The Bx7 used to run out of Kingsbridge, then went out of Colosseum, now they're out of Kingsbridge.
As far as my memory will take me....
Bx19: Created in 1984. Walnut, then Coliseum, then Walnut, now Mother Hale.
M5: 132nd Street, then Kingsbridge, then Amsterdam, briefly Amst/Hudson, then Manhattanville.
Bx6: KB or Coliseum (pre-Walnut, when it was called Bx34), then Amsterdam, then Walnut, then Coliseum, then Walnut, now Amsteredam.
M2: Mother Hale as far back as I can remember, now Manhattanville
M3: 132nd Street, then briefly 146th Street, then Amsterdam, now Manhattanville.
Bx7: Kingsbridge, then Coliseum, now Kingsbridge (some school trips from Amsterdam).
M100: Amsterdam, then Kingsbridge, then Walnut, then Kingsbridge, now Amsterdam.
How many old Mack coach buses did Avenue B & East Broadway Bus Co. have in their fleet. I am referring to those buses with the high back coach seats and the strip of metal silver-siding under the windows. I believe they were the 500 series in the fleet. Of these how many were single door only and how many had rear doors as well ?
sol--- it's funny your posting about ave b & east broadway--- after we spoke yesterday, i remembered another one of the mack stomping grounds and wanted to ask you about ave. b--- motor coach today in the april-june 1998 issue had a 3 page article on the final years in ave b, mostly photos, with some fleet history--- they mention the suburban macks as well as the city macks, but did not give any numbers--- david pirmann has several shots on the site here of ave b macks--- motor coach age of october 1968 and march 1980 had articles on the history and demise of ave b--- i don't have the issues, but if you know anyone who is a member of the motor bus society, maybe they do--- i don't think i ever rode an ave. b mack, but i always looked for them parked under the fdr, as the brighton went over the manhattan bridge... do you know much about the ownership of ave. b? paul
Hi Paul, I do not know the name of the owners of Ave B. I used to charter their buses and I dealt with the Operations Manager whose name was Henry Satinskas. When the company went out of business, Henry later moved on to become head of oerations for the Port Authority shuttle bus system in JFK Airport. I think he once told me that the owner of Ave. B was Greenberg but I am not sure of it.
Avenue B and E Broadway was owned by the Jacob Greenberg family. The ownership went back to the 1920s, and at one time there was some relationship with Green Bus Lines. As for the suburban type macks, there were four of them; all Model C49DM two with the silver strip ex Schenectady Transportation Co and two that were ex demos and had operated for Public Service in New Jersey.
How many of them had rear doors ? I saw some pictures on this website of l with a rear door and one with a single front door ?
There were two more buses in the 500 series (which represented the 40 foot Macks). They were C49DT's from the Cleveland Transit System. They would be the ones with the silver strip and the rear doors.
Ave B had 10C41 Macks #s301-310 Delivered between 1954 1nd 1956. Prior to those they used to run pre WWII Macks. I used to sit and watch them from my Grand Uncle s Optometrist Store at 207 E 14, just east of 3rd Ave, Them and the old pre WWII Yellow Coaches on the 14 line
Funny this should come up. I use to hang out at their garage at Cherry and Ruger Street after school and after work. Very friendly staff.
what was the shop like? i really liked the ave b macks.. they seemed a well worn fleet... did the shop just try to keep the buses running, or were they well maintained?--- did they have bus lifts or a pit to do work on the buses?--- were the drivers an easy going bunch of people?--- do you have any interesting stories about ave b?
There is a regularly scheduled bus that runs from the Boro Park section of Brooklyn to Sea Gate at the extreme western end of Coney Island. I believe that it is run by a Hasidic Jew. I do not know the name of the operator or the exacct route. I saw it once on 60th St. & 14th Ave. and it was a white and green Ford 25 passenger mini-bus.
Newsday Wednesday has a 3/4 page article by Lauren Terrazzano about the hearing which provides a little more detail about what serveral politations in Nassau County are doing to try & stop or limit the reduction in service:
- Part of the LIPA Clean Energy Fund $20M payment should be used to plug the hole in the LI Bus budget ... however Tom Gulotta wants it all used to plug his budget hole.
- State may caugh up another $2.3M + $680K
- MTA may be persuaded to caugh up some more cash
One of the senior State Sen., Dean Skelos, made a profound statement,
"... we should be talking about expanding existing services, ...". He is also attributed with the comment about the State maybe comming up with some additional cash.
Mr t__:^)
Yesterday morning at 7:30 AM I saw bus #9915 Westbound on Jericho Tpke at Old Country Road, Dix Hills. It has a new livery of white with dark blue strips and a ST on the sides. The bus was a 30-ft probably running on the S-54 (Patchogue - WW Mall). It really looked sharp and a great departure from the old livery. Also the route sign was larger.
Several moments later when I was about 300 yards east of Wolf Hill Road I saw a bus southbound on Wolf Hill. It appeared (from a distance) to also be primarily white, but larger. Probably operating on the (WW Mall to Wyandanch and on to Babylon, I think).
Great color scheme somewhat similar in appearance to the Bee-Line, Westchester and Community Coach liveries.
#9306WF a/k/a Hart Bus
if u can get a pic of the new orions running in suffolk transit, please post them here or email them to me:
pingu45@aol.com
I saw some of the 99xx Suffolk Transit buses out in Babylon a few weeks back. They all looked like 35 foot Orions and had slightly higher numbers than 9915. Perhaps there are some 30 footers also. I did take a few pictures, but will probably not have the film developed until later next week. If you send me an e-mail, I'll be glad to send you a copy of the couple of pictures I took.
When Avenue B finally got rid of the Macks and replaced them with the GMC new looks and Flxibles, did any of these new buses have the coach type seats in them ? I imagine they would have needed them on the uptown express run and on their Race Track lines.
All of Avenue B's fishbowls and flxibles were transits with low back transit seats. The last 5 were 40 feet and 8 cylinders, but with transit seats. The rest were 35 feet. The 40 footers went on the race track and express runs.
I noticed that the M1 limited doesn't stop at 13th/14th. Why not? It's a main street (14th), AND a transfer point to the M14 AND the M9 terminal. Why doesn't the limited stop here??? It's annoying to run back from 15th street to just miss an empty M9 '99 Nova.
Probably because of the confusing intersection. Does the regular M1 stop there? If so, then I don't know.
I dont know bt the M2 also stop at 15St.......
B46M Limited
I suspect the TA wanted the M1 Limited to stop at the same stop as the M2 Limited, which is 15th Street. I guess the M2 Limited could stop at 13th Street, but that is technically not part of the M2 route and the M2 local would not stop there. So 15th Street is the logical choice for the M1 local and Limited plus the M2 local and Limited plus the M3.
Umm... is it illegal to have 2 limited stops in a row?
Not illegal, but too many of them kind of defeats the purposes of a limited.
Yeah, it stops there.
Here's the buses that WDWTS has had over the years:
3 Minibus MB701's
3 GMC TDH5302's bought from White House Sightseeing (DC)
4 GMC TDH5302's bought from WMATA
2 GMC TDH5304's bought from WMATA
1 GMC TDH4517 bought from WMATA
5 Highway Products TC-25
14 Highway Products TC-31
I'd assume most of the above stuff is gone. There didn't seem to be any rhyme nor reason as to the fleet numbers, but then, we're dealing with Mickey Mouse. (They bought new trams for Disneyland in Caifornia two years ago -- there are front trailers, middle trailers, and rear trailers for each tramset. There is NO logic to the numbering of the trailers, though somehow they did the tractors all in order in one consecutive number bunch!)
Here's what they bought new down in Orlando:
2701-2707 GMC T80204
2708-2717 GMC T70204
2718-2719 GMC T80604
2720-2722 GMC T70604
2723-2736 GMC T8W604
2737-2741 GMC T8W606
4701-4814 TMC T80606
8001-8005 MCI 102D3
Plus a undetermined number os "Superbus" tractor-trailer buses.
Many of you may know that the first wheel chair lifts in the RTS buses didn't work that well. At a retirement party last night I was talking to a maint. friend & he said Disney folks had reached out to him for our experience in getting the lifts to work.
I guess I shouldn't be suprised that Disney is treated like one of the public transportation companies, i.e. they have various ways they talk to each other (forums, conferences, trade shows, direct conversations, etc.)
Mr t__:^)
I was at Disney's Carribean Beach Resort last August with my family. The various groups of 2700's vary greatly in age. I forget which group is from which year, but some are from 1983, while others are MidWest Rebuilds. relatively new arrivals. Us TA bus fans/employees cuss the 83's out for being so slow because of their engines, but there they are fast, even with the air conditioning on. And I don't remember one a/c failure on any bus. If the a/c fails. the bus is out of service. Period. Expected anyway since we were paying for it all in the "package". I can say we never rode a lousy, slow, rough riding (or any other negative adjective!) bus. My only complaint was the overcrowding on some peak runs when the parks open early on the AM or after fireworks/closing times on the PM.
How many large buses and how many mini-buses comprise the fleet of N.Y. Waterways for their ferry shuttle services in Manhattan ? When they leave the ferry terminal, what are the fixed routes that they operate on ? Were they required to obtain a city franchise to operate these routes ?
Also, what types of buses do they use? I think the big ones are Am-Trans and the small ones are Ford Mini Cutaways.