Just wishing everybody a happy and safe Y2K. So far nothing has gone wrong!!!
M79 "articulated" aka. Clark Palicka
TrAnSiTiNfO
I updated yesterday!!!! Check it out, happy new year, www.angelfire.com/ny3/nycbuspage
Peace Out
-Clayton
Happy New Year to you to Clayton, It's good to have you back! Much luck to you in the new Millenium and your site is great!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn aka "Flxible Metro D"
Photographer/Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
This may have been discussed, but since I spend most of my time on SubTalk, I haven't seen it. Why is the M-15 now routed on Madison St. instead of East Broadway?
Streamlining of the route in the Chatham Sq Area ,,for buses going to South Ferry
Also ,part of the M1 M22 M15 permanent reroutes in the Area of the Federal Bldgs ,on Worth Street,for Security Reasons
Steve
FDNY
Rudy must be watching to many Die Hard Movies on TV. Security ha
Rudy is scare of terrorer also he is 1-22 in court & he just waste a lot of $$$$$ for nothing. He trying to be a tough mayor in city but he not a tought mayor & he a sure loser hahahahahahaha.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
This is a State and Federal Issue,not a City issue,,,---Please note
Steve
Foley Square Service Revisions,Page 195 to page 202
Implemented Early 1999
--------------------------------------------
M1 Northbound via North on CHurch Street,East on Worth St,,North on Centre Street
M15 City Hall Branch via Park Row between Chatham Square and CIty Hall
M15 South Ferry Branch via Southbound Allen Street,South on Pike St,South on Madison St,South on St James St,South o Pearl St,
M15 South Ferry Northbound via Pearl St,St James Place,Madison St,Pike St Northbounnd,,Allen St Northbound
Madison St M15 is LESS Congested than East Broadway,,also eliminates Turns at Chatham Square
=============================================
M22 Southbound Westbound via West on Madison St,North on Pike Street,,Southwest on East Broadway,,West on Worth St,,South on Lafeyette St
Pearl st mbet Centre and Lafeyette has been closed Permantly
Thanks
I would just like to know if any news is to report on the reopening of Crosstown Bus Depot as a bus depot.
There are no plans to reopen Crosstown as a bus depot. NYCT does, however, plan to open a new facility in Maspeth, just over the Grand Avenue Bridge.
And, with all due respect to Trevor (who often has good information), he's not the only one around here who might know something, so it's VERY rude to address questions on a public forum to one person. Moreover, Trevor lists his e-mail address when he posts, so anybody who has a question that is intended ONLY for his eyes should send it directly to him.
David
[I would just like to know if any news is to report on the reopening of Crosstown Bus Depot as a bus depot.]
Messages like this (the one you're responding to) should be promptly deleted, along with anything that might form downthread.
Crosstown talks are in mid process, for the hundreth time, NOTHING IS CARVED IN STONE, its just talks, no contingent plan yet! They might need more space and Crosstown may open up until the Maspeth Facility is completed!
Trevor
I think we've all had enough of the 'when is Crosstown reopening' crap. Lets start the century off without the same nonsense.
Speaking of nonsense, another problem is the addressing of a specific person for an answer.
Happy New Year to all. On December 31, i was able to go to Triboro Coach Corp and get some cool pictures and see their fleet. Got some nice pics of a Orion(#3002) a RTS (#2808 with the new paint) and even got inside the garage to take a pic of the GMC New Looks they have(they still have 2, but dont know if they still run). Triboro does need a new garage, becaue they park there buses on the street, no wonder some of them look old. Also saw some Orions runnig on the Q19A. I know this is a local run, but why have these buses runnig on this line if the Orions are express buses.
thanks
The New Looks are no longer used in revenue service and the reason that cTc uses suburbans on its local runs ,is that the Coopers(the controlling family for cTc,GBL,JBL and Command) screwed up with DOT some how and and isn't getting a single Orion for local service.This is reason that almost everyone is calling for TA control of said companies(or the Queens county service to be taken over by QS)
Join
http://www.egroups.com/list/NYCBUSNEWS
I will be posting the Agenda Items ,,shortly ,for January ,,,at that location,,only
Steve
FDNY
Has anyone noticed how disgusting Casey Stengal buses are?
They are dirty, and have the most scratchiti than any other NYC bus depot. The backside of these CS Orions are also quite dirty.
Also what's up with Flushing? There's alot of asian teen gangs there
and declining foot traffic (shoppers).
Don't see as many chinese people there, and the pizza/bakery near the SW entrance of the 7 train on Roosevelt avenue has closed permanently.
I remember when Casey Stengal depot was one of the best bus depots in NYC, what happened? I guess it has to do with the bad element that is now coming to Flushing I guess.
How often have you ridden Brooklyn buses?
Saw a few Brooklyn buses when I was in Sunset Park and Coney Island.
Looked better than Stinky Stengals.
NO NO NO
Stinky Stengel is not a cool name
If you want to use puns, then Casey STINKEL is the name you're looking for.
Can we PLEASE not disparage one of baseball's greats? How about :The toilet buses from the depot formerly known as 'Flushing'?
-Hank-Die-Hard Mets fan!
(How else do you explain spending $500 on tickets the day they tell you your 'services are no longer required' at work?)
How ironic is it that an RTS still graces the logo of CS. Recently, there have been numerous posts on here killing Orions, both DOT and TA. For all you RTS haters, those buses don't look so bad now do they? I agree, I am sick of seeing them, too, but their solid reliability cannot be disputed. Let's hope that New Flyer succeeds where Orion has thus far failed.
By the way, other all Orion depots--AMS, MCH and CAS--don't seem to be doing so bad. How about them?
(Yes, I know CAS operates MCI's also, so they are not 100% Orion).
CAS is all-Orion for local service. X-bus service is still Orions and MCIs. All the RTS on SI now operate out of Yukon.
-Hank
I see "Stinky Stengel" buses all of the time. And yes I've seen the terrible condition that they're in. They'll come right out of the paint shop and they'll go back in the same shape that they went into the shop in. 1 time I was on 309 on Q27 and I saw a kid scratching the window up. I was gonna say something but why bother? Most of the Orions there except for the 6100s are in horrid shape. I hope they'll go back to the RTS Series there. Those buses were the best there. This is the thanks that we get for getting them new buses?! We shouldn't give them anything new again. As far as Flu-shing is concerned, I see all type of kids hanging around the Burger King area on Main St. And it's their fault that CS is "stinky!"
MM2000
At one time Queens Division's depots were 1, 2 and 3 in maintenance. Now QV and JAM are still 1 and 2, respectively, but FLA was #3. CS dropped to the middle of the pack. I think Mother Hale even surpassed them. From time to time, I see ex-CS Orions in Hale service, and they look abosolutely great. I have seen CS buses with blown tail-lamps/headlights, broken clearance lights, and extremely scratched up windows. It should be noted that a lot of their scratched window buses came from the king of scratchity Yukon depot (631-680).
The Yukon arrivals didn't help. I try to avoid riding 631-680, they ride like hell and break down alot. What buses did these replace?
I thought Casey Stengal got more 6000's but it seems I'm seeing more old ones again.
I hate those old ones, their windows are scratched up real bad, so are the seats.
I used to think LI Bus Orion CNG's were messy, they had some garbage and gum. But Stinky Stengal's Orions beat them by a long shot.
Not only do you have scratched up windows, and garbage all over the place, the buses smell horrible (worst bus fumes) and ride rough.
Then you have all these Flushing kids, who litter the buses more.
These "kids" have contributed to the Stinky Stengal phenomenon, and as long as Flushing is the dirt-hole it is now, Casey Stengal depot buses will show for it.
I'd much rather ride a LI Bus than a Casey Stengal one. Actually, some NYCT riders who take the Q12 try to get on an N20/21 out of Flushing and then try to get off in Queens. They are promptly reminded by the driver that eastbound LI Bus routes "do not drop off customers in Queens". Usually these crazy asian kids over there do this all the time, and it gets annoying.
One CS bus, I think it may be 258, has small letters and NO destination sign. Alot have broken rear signs too.
It's not Orion's fault, all the others I've seen look and ride fine, only the CS buses stink. And why do the Casey Stengal buses smell like urine in the back. Do people "pee" back there?
258 also has a peeling paint problem on the right side roof
Also 258 has very bad scratchitti on windows and seats. This is the worst bus that I ever saw running. It's embarrassing to CS.
MM2000
Has anyone noticed how disgusting Casey Stengal buses are?
They are dirty, and have the most scratchiti than any other NYC bus depot. The backside of these CS Orions are also quite dirty.
There's food wrappers all over the bus floors and the bus smells like urine. Even seats have trash on them.
Also what's up with Flushing? There's alot of asian teen gangs there
and declining foot traffic (shoppers).
Don't see as many chinese people there, and the pizza/bakery near the SW entrance of the 7 train on Roosevelt avenue has closed permanently.
I remember when Casey Stengal depot was one of the best bus depots in NYC, what happened? I guess it has to do with the bad element that is now coming to Flushing I guess.
Does anybody know how much it costs(fuel) to operate one bus model vs. another model. RTS vs. ORION vs NEW FLYER vs MCI, CNG vs. DESEIL. Does the hybrid bus's represent a signifant reduction in fuel cost( they cost 25% more than RTS)I know hoda is coming out with a hybrid car capable of acheiving 70 mpg
Well, most of the Orions and RTS have the same engines. I don't have any real numbers, but they're of similar sizes and weights, so they'd be about equal. If anything, the RTS would have a slight advantage because it's more 'streamlined'.
The New Flyer D60s and MCIs are very likely fuel hogs. These buses are so different from the rest of the fleet, it would have to be low.
CNG is relatively cheap (about 90c comparable to $1.30 of Diesel, as per the figures I have from 1997)
Hybrid propulsion should realize significant fuel savings, as the electric motor(s) does the majority of the work. I don't know the exact hybrid system the current buses use (diesel-electric, like a locomotive, or a setup similar to the new Honda Prius, which puts the electric motor between the engine and tranny)
-Hank
thanks for the info
I just read the New York Times and they have an article about the diesel buses. What they don't tell you to shed some GOOD light on the subject is that the MTA ordered 125 Orion Hybrids and Colusium (i know spelling) will have CNG's in it (if i'm not mistaking). Stop critizing the MTA, they are helping the situation!
Peace Out
-Clayton
In the article the mta representative made a idiotic statement. HE said one of the reasons they have not upgrade more depots for CNG is that they are awaiting the arival of Fuel Cells in the next decade. If i am not mistaken the prefered fuel for Fuel cell buses is CNG. The TA is going to need to upgrade all depots at this time anyway. What the ta should do is upgrade one depot a year. Purchace only CNG or CNG hybrids. Rebuild current deseil fleet so that they can be replaced by the cng. The cost saving of rebuild vs new will help offset the cost of CNG upgrades to depots.
Mr. Reuter does NOT say they are awaiting the fuel cell; he says they HOPE to convert the hybrids to fuel cells.
Additionally, the preferred 'source' for fuel cells is Hydrogen (electrolyzing with oxygen, the only thing out the tailpipe is water; I'm having trouble remebering my science class in intermediate school. I'll find the article in my magazine archives.)
-Hank
Clayton, did you read the entire article, or did you only read the column on page A27 (Page 1 of Metro)?
The article continues on Page A29 (page 3 of Metro). In the third paragraph, the article clearly mentions the TA is '...focusing its anti-pollution efforts on an experimental hybrid engine that runs on both diesel and electricity.'
There is further info on the hybrid, like its development in consortion with Lockheed-Martin, and the purchase of 125 buses powered by the hybrid powerpack without going through the competitive bid process as there is only one company manufactures them, although there is no mention of which body the bus will have. It does say they are installed in buses built by Orion Bus Industries of Oriskany, NY and Nova Bus of Schenectady. They expand further on the hybrid concept with the mention of eventual conversion of the hybrid buses to fuel cell propulsion in eight years; talk about your unproven technologies! They mention the difficulty of converting depots to serve CNG buses. There is also brief mention of the problems at Jackie Gleason.
Not that the article DOESN'T have a good bit of misinformation.
It mentions that '...diesel engines were the only proven technology available to power the new express coaches and articulated buses.'
While the expres coach issue is debunked later in the article (NJT's purchase of 50 CNG powered MCIs) it's mentioned that they are smaller, which they're not. And I would most definately call CNG a proven technology, as Gene Russianoff is quoted later; New Flyer does manufacture an artic that is CNG powered. It fails to mention the TA is in the process of recieving over 150 new CNG powered buses (it mentions a total of only 89). There is also no mention of how the majority of new buses the city DOT has purchased for the private-subsidized carriers have been CNG fueled. Oh, I can't forget to mention the completely screwed up explanation of how the hybrid and fuel cell work.
-Hank
Just to correct you on something. The NJT MCI's are smaller than the ones here in NYC, actually by 5 feet. The reason that we don't have CNG powered MCI's is because of the extra 5 feet required by NYCT for express service. MCI is only building the CNG MCI D3's for NJT first off, and secondly they are not building this particular model in the DL3 series. CNG is a serious option in Transit style buses but not coaches, NJT's units are the first and only of it's kind in the world and MCI is not really ready to build these units as an off the shelf model just yet. You can also check out the article on these units in the November issue of BusRide magazine.
Peace
DaShawn
How many seats are there on a D3? NYCT's DL3's seat 57. I can't imagine 5 feet less (certainly not a requirement!) eliminating more than 4-5 seats (I figure one row of seats)
The thing with those coaches is that they lose one baggage compartment for the lift, and with a CNG fuel system, you lose all of them. This severely limits their use, as a private company won't buy a bus it can use only for commuter run, and not the long-distance charters that make their real money. This leaves only transit agencies as potential purchasers; so you can see why MCI doesn't want to make these on their assembly line.
On the plus side, the majority of the parts needed to manufacture a CNG fueled bus are not available 'off-the-shelf'. The MCIs don't need additional framing for roff support, as the tanks go right underneath. The fuel piping is now standard (it does need to be twisted the right way for each application); and all that's left is an engine, and the majority of internal combustion engines require a minimum of conversion to use CNG, and diesel engines are better for it than gasoline.
-Hank
Sorry bout that, I realize that they did say that but I'm not sure if its a rumor or if its true, Coliseum is supposed to have all new CNG's there, they might not work properly but the least the NYT could do was to state that the MTA was considering or placed the order.
P.S.- I don't remember everything I read, sorry!
Peace Out
-Clayton
I totally agree with you Hank, The D3 has 49 seats and uses the last two luggage compartments to the rear on each side for CNG tanks. The floor to the rear had to be raised to accomodate the Series 60G's extra components. The front luggage compartment of course is used for the Wheelchair lift. The TA did look into getting the DL3 in the same configuration but MCI had to go into a "Development" of a prototype first and the TA just can't wait for that. I personally think that if the TA were to be persistant the way NJT was, then MCI would have been more willing to come up with a DL3 CNG unit. I should also mention that the NJT D3's also accomodate standees, I think it's 5 of them.
Peace
DaShawn
Who would want to stand going 65 mph?
The answer to that question is no one at any speed! But the reality is that on a bus it is sometimes necessary to stand regardless of the type of bus. We are not supposed to have standees on the DL3's here in NY but guess what? We do! People have to go and so if you can stand for a part of the trip you can do that or wait for the next bus. The choice is yours.
Peace
DaShawn Pretlow
Co-Webmaster/Photographer
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
Now that I realize that the L in DL3 stands for lengthened, what does the D stand for? Doesn't seem to be diesel. And am I right in that the 3 is the number of axles?
D. means the series letter, the was a A, B, C, D, and now E, F, and soon G series.
Follows as:
96-A2/102-A2
96-A3/102-A3
96-B3
102-B3 now the 102-D3
102-C3
102-DL3
102-EL3
F3
G3
Note: the 96/102-A2, 96/102-A3, and 96-B3, basically look alike with a few small differences in features. The 102-B3 was the inital design for the now ever so popular 102-D3. The 102-D3 is the exact same as the 102-B3/D3 just with a slopping back. We all know the DL3. The EL3 is the Renaissance Coach. The F3 is a new Motorhome ONLY shell produced by MCI. The G3 is the new coach soon to be produced by MCI, the first production models of the G3 will go to Greyhound first.
Hope this has helped!
Trevor
"The G3 is the new coach soon to be produced by MCI, the first production models of the G3 will go to Greyhound first."
I'm suprised Mac didn't sue them.
You mean Apple? They can't. That's why Intel stopped numbering their processors (to the public; they're still numbered to Intel). It was ruled just prior to the introduction of the Pentium that number and letter series could not be trademarked. Goes back to 'Flxible'. They purposely spelled it that way so it could be trademarked. Oddly, Boeing never bothered, and continues to number their aircraft models 7x7.
But then there's the issue of trademarked names being adopted as general words, like Band-Aid (Johnson & Johnson), Xerox (Xerox), and Frigidare (?). Now, while the companies that make the 'other' brands don't call them that, the general public does. When's the last time you had a cut and looked for an 'adhesive guaze bandage'?
-Hank
To Trevor,
I would just like to know if you happen to have pictures of the NEW FLYER "VIKING" Over-the-Road coach pictures yet & if so, when will you post the picture.
Sincerely,
Jerry
A suggestion:
Don't ANYBODY answer this post or any other that is addressed to a particular BusTalker (or SubTalker). Maybe if these people are ignored, they'll either go away or stop posting questions to individuals on a message board that is open to all.
David
[To Trevor,
I would just like to know if you happen to have pictures of the NEW FLYER "VIKING" Over-the-Road coach pictures yet & if so, when will you post the picture.
Sincerely,
Jerry]
Please stop bracketing on the bottom of your posts. I understand that you're responding to somebody but it says that on the top with the post who you are responding to. Thank you.
MM2000
Jerry, speaking for Trevor (cause I'm also a member of the TransiTalk family), we do not have any pics of the Viking as of yet. She's a tough cookie to get as far as I know of. When we have taken a pic of her, we will let everybody know here on BT. Just have to be a bit patient for now.
MM2000
Well, as a newly unemployed person, I have plenty of time to waste in the afternoons, I'll see if I can get any. At least I'm in the neighborhood.
-Hank
If you get the pic, I'll be happy to put it up on the People's Page at TransiTalk.
MM2000
Thank your for answering on the behalf of me, BUT DON'T, I WILL ANSWER MY OWN QUESTIONS. First off, NO TransiTALK does not have any pictures of the Viking as she IS a hard bus to catch. Secondly, You can not just post anything on the People's Page of TransiTALK without concent of the person responsible for it which is Kevin Barsky.
Viking #997 is in service but is a hard bus to catch so if you get it, take as many pics as possible as it maybe a hard bus to catch. ALSO TransiTALK was quite able to get pics of Hybrid RTS 8397 at Manhattanville yesterday so it'll be posted soon for those that haven't seen this bus yet!
Trevor Logan
Founder/Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk
I think we all know who the post is from as it lists your name as the poster. No need to put it in the description as well...
Wow, you beat me to it....
-Hank
WOW, I did that because some one answered for me and I did not like that so really before you jump and bite peoples heads off , ask why the its done before you get another posting like this and it will not be pleasant!
Trevor
While walking my dog, I saw this bus on the Q104 today with a broken sign. Do not tell me that they're gonna be doing the same as CTC but they have RTS 275-389, 400 series and 6 700 series buses. If the driver likes this in particular bus, that's 1 thing but for a 500 Express Bus to be on a local line, that's very strange, especially for QS.
MM2000
Sorry for the e-mail mistake, but my address is
correct now:
Why is it that Jackie Gl never runs CNG's #8567 and
#8399?
I would also like to know:
About three weeks ago, I saw a 95, non-CNG Orion
running along 8th avenue for B70 service. I thought
it was from amsterdam, but it had a Jackie Gleason
Depot Patch instead. What is the deal with this
bus?
Haven't seen or heard about 8398 either.
MM2000
The last time i was at Gleason 8399 had to get some light transmission work. I think both buses are back in service now.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
TransiTALK WebMaster/Photographer
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
I saw 8567 on the B37 this morning.
David
I recently saw the new buses going to Morris County Metro. I got the # of one bus. It was bus #2576
Those are New Jersey Transit's Novas. I have a picture if you'll email me for it but it isn't the MCM bus.
I have a picture if anyone wants it. Email me.
i do..send it
I saw 3 of the new buses at the Pabco garage/lot last week - I think they were #'s 2569, 2570 & 2571, but am not 100% sure. For those who may not know, these are 30 foot Novas (which, I believe, is a fairly new model). The first of the 2500 series went to Atlantic City. There are 30 footers in a few other Jersey areas, perhaps the Trenton area operation. They are part of the same order for the 40 foot Novas in the 1000 series, most of which have recently been delivered around the State to replace all (or most) of the former NYC Flxibles. The 40 footers have the standard NJ Transit colors, except those with some of the private operators. The 30 footers have a new paint scheme, most likely because of their short lenghth - the NJ colors in a partially wavy stripe the goes around the bus from front to back. I took some pictures, but haven't had the film developed yet. When I get them developed, I'll get them on TransiTALK's Contributors page and will let you BusTalkers know.
In October, one of these buses, #2500, was on exhibit in Orland, for the APTA meeting. I took pictures, however no one could verify if this
would be the new pain scheme. Thanx for the update.
Joe C.
One private operator which I wont name has had the Flxibles returned! The first day they got the new buses, one operator became too friendly with a traffic sign and damaged the new bus. They got some of the same numbers and some different numbers but they are all Flxibles.
I suspect some of the private operators will keep a few of the Flxibles around awhile, which will be nice. Lafayette & Greenville had a few of the original NJT order of Flxibles (the low 1000's) as of a few months ago, so I suspect they'll have some of the 2000's for a few more years.
This private operator got new Nova Buses and had them taken away after the wreck on day one!
The operator got too friendly with a traffic sign and wrecked the door- and the door could not be closed.
I recently rode one of CS buses on New Year's Eve(#562 on the Q48) and told the driver about what has been said about the buses at his depot. He told me that #252 is no longer in service and that they do repaint jobs on buses that occasionally go to Mother Hale Depot.
As far as them getting RTS Buses, it is not happening. He told me that the washewrs at the garage are now set up to accept Orions only. They dont have plans to recieve any more buses in the near future, but i cannot understand when the new Orions came out(the 6000's) why CS only got 20 while Staten Island's Yukon Depot got 110.
Probably because they wouldn't want to see 110 brand new 6000 buses get ruined in revenue service in Flushing.
Why did they "sentence" Orions 6120-6141 to Stengel. Casey Stinkel (I like that!) had enough Orions beforehand and really didn't need any of the new 6000's.
If only Casey STENGEL could see how his name has been butchered in these posts. Then again he might be embarrassed at how poorly they take care of some of his buses as well.
Hey, Stengel managed the '62 Mets. As long as you don't screw up his name, I would think he's used to stinking.
-Hank
Bus 252 was lucky enough to go to Mother Clara Hale, along with 253-255. Fifty Casey Stengel Orions were "rescued" last year when 173-232 went over to MCHale. Those buses look fantastic, and ride great. Many of them went to ENY Base Shop for painting, but that hasn't helped over in Casey Stengel. Even though CS won't be getting any RTS's, it is not out of the ordinary to see one on a CS route. Last week I spotted Jamaica's 4217 on the Q44. Usually, QV and JAM keep a number of "swing" buses at 165 Street Terminal or at Archer/Parsons and are used as needed (similar to St. George's Terminal). I guess an Orion crapped out in Jamaica, so they used one of the extra RTS's they had available.
Correction: 173-222 went to MCH. 223-232 are still being abused in Flushing.
249-253 were in Flu-shing briefly. Then when JG borrowed 254-255, they were returned to MCH, not CS. BTW: When is CS gonna give AMS their 400S? Also when is CS gonna give CAS 505-515? Will we get others if we get rid of 505-515? Also, Another note to mention about CS: 100 Coaches are being used on local routes, A few weeks ago, I rode 108 on Q74 and she had little scratchitti on the windows, but not a whole lot like the other buses have. And 1 of the 100-109 buses that I've been on I remember had missing seats but I forgot the # b/c it didn't have an interior #.
MM2000
How about this for a little help for Casey Stengel:
223-232 (10) CS to MCH
6000-6009 (10) MCH to CS
400-401, 404, 425, 452-458 (11) CS to AMS;
6109-6119 (11) AMS to CS
505-511 (7) CS to CAS
6142-6148 (7) CAS to CS
This gives Casey 50 of the 1998-99 Orion V's, and gives a more even distribution of these buses. It also eliminates the oddities in their assignment as the 400's go to their rightful place, and the now oddball low 200's go to MCH where they belong. Now all this will prove to be no help if CS doesn't maintain the 6000's.
Mistake in my suggestions:
400-401, 404, 425, 452-456 (9) CS to AMS
6111-6119 (9) AMS to CS
505-513 (9) CS to CAS
6142-6150 (9) CAS to CS
No way!!!! Do not want to see more 6100s getting destroyed by graffiti or scratchitti. 6111-6119 have made their home at AMS. If you really want more 6100s to come here, this would sound reasonable:
505-515 CS-CAS
6142-6159 CAS-CS
MM2000
I remember reading somewhere that a Stengel maintainer frequently appears in and places high in maintenance rodeos.
But then of course, this is only one person.
Alot of it has to do with the riders. CS buses are probably the abused by the riders.
Just how are they abused by riders? You would have to be a moron or on some power trip if you make eyes at some guy scartching the windows and bring the matter to his attention. Me thinks you would be outnumbered seriously. How else are they abused?
I would rather they scratch the windows than me or you.
Bring the matter to the attention of the NYPD Transit Division Surface Division or whatever they call it.
It's their responsibility.
Go up front to a B/O and tell him that students are scratching up windows. What would expect him to do???? Play Lone Ranger???
I'm sure he would value his health more than a piece of glass.
There are alot of rowdy teens in Flushing now than they were a year ago. The neighborhood has gone downhill. And the buses have gone downhill. And these kids ride the buses, and scratch up windows and seats too. That is considered "abuse" by the riders in my opinion. Also why is Flushing full of so much litter. I don't see many other places in NYC where there's so much garbage on the streets. How can I not think that the same people who create this litter also ride the bus. There's so much litter in those stinky Stengal Orions, from gum, newspapers, soda cans, candy wrappers, the list goes on and on. It has to do with the people in Flushing, especially these kids who don't give a damn about keeping their community in good shape and appealing to shoppers. LI Bus takes litter very seriously, I remember not so long ago a LI Bus driver made a passanger get back on the bus and pick up his not so empty soda can, and the passanger did because the driver refused to move the bus until the passnger got his soda can. At least he let the guy drink, eating and drinking is not really allowed on the bus.
And they will keep vandalizing the Stengal buses and giving them a "stinky" reputation until the MTA and the police do something. We can't let these kids ruin perfectly good buses, and the streets of Flushing. I remember when Stengal buses were so much more appealing, they were clean and gave a good ride. And this was only about 12 months ago. Now they are in such bad shape, and so is Flushing. This only attests to how fast Flushing is "going down the toilet".
I have nothing more to say on CS's Orions, except that JAM, ENY, FLA, KB and MCH serve far worse neighborhoods than Flushing, such as South Jamaica, Brownsville, Bed-Stuy, East New York, Harlem, and The South Bronx. Despite that, their buses look way better than CS's. In fact, JAM, FLA and MCH are top maintenance depots (along with QV). So, to make a direct correlation between the appearance of a bus, and the neighborhoods it serves is somewhat unfair to the neighborhood. As far as I am concerned, CS's maintenance is solely responsible for its decline.
Nuff said!!
AMEN!!! Like I said earlier I wish you were in charge of maintainace at CS, They could use you!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
Co-Webmaster/Photographer
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
Thanks DaShawn. I was guilty of linking neighborhoods to bus appearance also, but I saw the light.
Today, I had the chance to ride four buses--2 from CS, two from JAM. CS buses were 579 and 271, while 8956 and 8944 (both fresh from the paint shop) were the JAM buses. Both CS buses, along with EVERY other Orion I observed had badly scratched windows. Bus 579 had scratched seats as well. Mechanically, both buses looked OK, they were just victims of vandalism. I noticed absolutely no JAM buses with vandalized windows--even their 4500's. JAM has come a long way since the days of the 7500 Flxibles and the 1981/83 RTS's. Ever since CS wnet 100% Orion, things have gone downhill--fast!
Many times I have school trippers. And when these HS deliquent's get out of school and on my bus they start to destroy it instanly. They put their wounderful graffiti tags, break the emergency glass, steal the rear mirrors, open up the roof hatches completly, scratch the windows, pop out the windows, break the wheel chair straps, take out the yellow touch tape, ect ect ect. One thing these kids need to learn is RESPECT other peoples property. Good military schools will do. Also, TA should have MORE under cover police riding these buses and catching these kids in their acts.
I will agree that sometimes you do get the HS delinquent that completely destroys the bus. But you also have to realize that not all of us are like that. Many of us have respect for the TA's materiel b/c they let us ride for free.
Clark Palicka
TrAnSiTiNfO
I respect the MTA material not because I ride for free, I would respect it if I had to pay full fare! These delinquents who give people my age a bad name should be banned from riding transit, if caught, they could suffer consequences, REAL ones, not just silly detention or whatever they do at the common local school. They should do the same to litterbugs. I once heard a group discussing the disposal of a glass bottle. The group was split on whether to discard the bottle properly or to merely leave it on the floor. For those who wish to do the latter, I say the bottom of the bottle be shattered against their heads, and the know jagged sharp edge be rammed into their faces as Blanche attempted to do to Stanley in the penultimate scene of a Streetcar Named Desire.
AMEN! The punishment these kids receive for defacing TA property by the public schools is a joke! Detentions and suspensions aren't nothing to these kids, Detention is like catching up on your day with you buds that are there and suspension is like a holiday in which they do not go to school, end back up on a bus defacing more property. If more harsh punishments were enforeced, i.e. Real Fines like the cost of replacing the window or the seat, or even a day cleaning buses, now I believe that would teach them a serious lesson about defacing the buses we have all come to know, love, and enjoy!
Trevor
Or possibly community service.
Mabye even being forced to actually THINK about something- anything- for once.
:)
Defy Reason--- you suggested smashing a discarded bottle over the heads of people who litter in a bus, and then disfiguring the people with the broken end of the bottle. I hope you are being overly dramatic--- because the violence of your punishment is infinitely more offensive than the actions of kids who leave soda bottles in buses. If you are serious about that punishment, then you are living up to your name.
Oh no, it was just a manifestation of my anger towards those who don't care the slightest bit about public property. They don't really have to be punished like that. Assuming they did, what would you do with those who accidentally left something?
I'm not sure if you were talking about these kids leaving a bottle on the floor of the bus or on the street. It doesn't matter. They're manifesting their lack of concern for other people and for the law. So give them a ticket for littering.
Hey look, I was on the subway today, and a mother was with a little kid, and the kid was taking the paper off a straw and just throwing it on the ground. It annoyed me, because they didn't care. I wasn't brought up that way. Usually if I drop something, I pick it up. The mother didn't care, it was the subway, who gives a crap?
I assume you feel that getting a ticket for littering is not enough?
Do you really want this world to be perfect?
What I think is more important is to look at why you had such a strong reaction to this incident? Sometimes these situations happen as much to teach us where we are coming from.
I had a very strong reaction to some of hostility that was being expressed on this message board just a couple of days ago. What can I do? Try to change people? Point out to them that their anger is a force that will hurt them more than they will ever know?
I don't think earth is meant to be heaven. We are all flawed, and our flaws impact on others, and maybe that's the way things are supposed to be. If we can only see how our flaws impact on our own lives, there might be a chance for us all.
No, a ticket for littering is OK. Multiple offenses, then you have to do some cleaning.
You are right. While CS may have poor maintainance, these school kids (and there seems to be more of them all the time around Flushing) destroy the buses. They scratch, they open emergency windows. Sometime we get 'em coming from St.Francis (a private school) in Manhasset on the N21 to Flushing and they fool around with emergency exits and throw garbage and food around. I feel like I'm on a school bus when they are around. Fortunately, usually these kids get what they deserve, LI Bus arranges two Gillig Phantom buses bound for Flushing when they get out at 2:35pm, so they can ride on a school bus with a rear door! After all if they are going to wreck a bus give them a junky bus like a Gillig Phantom.
Oh, I just remembered another reason I despised the school bus before ultimately being rid of it's hell in 1995. It was so uncivilized, even the younger kids were wild, they had preoccupations about sitting with noöne but their friends, and they had more people there than could fit two to a seat, but no standee bars. Plus no air conditioning, with the awful vinyl seats having the effect of a deep fryer not to mention the scroching hot bare metal wall. I guess since it seems most younger persons are incapable of conducting themselves in a civilized manner, then a school bus is a great vehicle. Farm animals are also uncivilized and they only ride in cattle cars one step abovbelow school busses.
As long as drivers like you continue to let the kids wreck the bus without any interference, there's no way they'll ever learn any respect or stop destroying public property. Surely, there's some solution you can come up with other than continuing to let the thugs get away with whatever they want every day. Bring a policeman with you if things are as bad as you describe them. Or have central control get a policeman to meet the bus.
I agree with what you said. But still anyway their buses are complete pieces of junk. I guess they mix together since they are disgusting as well as most of their buses run like sh**.
You're right; there's nothing that says kids from poor and/or minority neighborhoods are all vandals, and kids from wealthier and/or all-white or Asian neighborhoods are all angels. I recently rode an S78 just as I.S. 2, 7, 24 and Tottenville High School in turn emptied out. These 'good' kids from safe, suburban South Shore Staten Island were smoking, drinking beer, scratchitti-ing, throwing stuff out doors and windows and harrassing anyone they saw.
I've heard similar horror stories about the Q30, which serves I.S. 67 and Cardoza High School in the 'peaceful' sections of Little Neck and Bayside respectively.
Anyone who thinks rich or middle class kids don't cause trouble, do the names Robert Chambers and Amy Fisher come to mind?
I agree. Look at the condition of Staten Island's Orion 6000 Series busses. Not even one year old - most have scratchiti on the windows, gum on the new soft seats, graffitti on the rear of forward facing seats. The busses, especially from Castleton Depot are always dirty. On another subject of cleaning- when is the bus washer at Castleton going to work properly? The busses come out without a proper rinse and the windows left with a soapy residue. When this dries, the busses look just as dirty as not being washed! Yukon depot does a great job washing their busses. Now, if we can get the slobs not to mess up the busses- we would be in great shape. Just how many undercover cops are assigned to the bus fleet? An increase in undercover police would pay for itself in a year or two with vandals getting caught and less damage to the bus fleet- Wake up Transit Authority!
Buses out of Yukon aren't this bad. I've yet to see gum or grafitti on them, and they have the mylar window coating that is peeled off and replaced to fight the scatchitti.
On the other hand, I'm getting sick and tired of getting on x-buses that have spilled coffee and newspapers on the floor, empty coffee cups on the seats and in the parcel racks, and gum inside the air vents. Tell me, what high-school kids ride the x-bus that they're all like this?
-Hank
I agree Hank! There are a lot of slobs riding the X buses. The coffee cups and newspapers are left behind everyday. I also find MetroCards and gum wrappers stuck in the vents along the bottom of the windows. But the buses are usually clean when you first get on in the morning.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
TransiTALK President/Co-WebMaster
TransitTALK Platinum 2000
The name Robert Chambers doesn't come to mind.
Damn, you're young :) He was convicted of murdering a girl in Central Park. His defense was that it was 'rough sex'. Jury didn't buy it. Commonly refered to as the 'preppie killing' as both convict and victim were prep school students who appeared to have it all. My memory's nearly fried on this one. I think this was 1987 or 88.
-Hank
Why? What's the point? Why do the 200s 'belong' at MCH? Hell, the way those buses from that depot in Flushing get treated, I'd give them only the buses that are on their last legs. 3000 series RTS sound good. But if it's gotta be Orions, let THEM have the 200s. Whether the bus is new or not has no effect on how clean they're kept, it's how lazy are the people responsible for cleaning them, and how disgusting the passengers who ride them are.
All the complaints I've read here center on the poor appearance of the buses, not that they've got mechanical problems.
-Hank
Don't be so rough Hank.
Maybe they should swap maintainers then. :-) I made that point in my posting that getting the 6000's wouldn't be worth a hill of beans if they are not maintained. The 200's to MCH would simply afford CS to get 10 6000's, that's all.
I think it's still a bad idea! No one till this day can figure out why CS received the 61xx series buses that they did. They did not need them at all! From what I have read here and also have riden in the last year from CS the maintainance has gone straight down hill. I agree with Hank, if this is the case they should get the 200 and 300 series Orions and swap the 500 and 600 series buses for 3000 series and 4000 series RTS's. But at the same time it's not only the maintainance people, lets look at the drivers! That urine smell in the rear stairwell is from the the male drivers not the passengers! I have seen it done on numerous lines and places. If a bus looks like crap, how do you expect the riding public to keep the buses in a neat and orderly fashion! It's a damn shame! The other thing should be more strict enforcement of things like scratchitti and all this other crap that makes our buses and trains look terrible and more strict policies on the maintaince people and drivers who don't perform accordingly. We as the riding public has to do much more also. If you see somebody scratching up a window, say something! Our money pays for these buses and trains. Now don't go and try to be the next Bernard Ghetz and put your self in a situation that might get you and someone else hurt, but just do your part.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Photographer/Co-Webmaster
TransiTalk Platinum 2000
Personally I agree with DaShawn! Stengel should not have received any of the 61xx series they have now, and Yukon should not have received half of the 6xxx series they received. First off, with MCH receiving Orions for the first time and was the pilot depot for the 6000 series they should have been the garage to recieve nothing but 6000 series and no rejects/transfers from anywhere. Amsterdam on the other hand should have received the 200 and 100 series that MCH have received. Yukon should have kept what they had and received maybe 50 of the new Orions if that. Castleton should received a decent amount of 6xxx series Orions. Stengel on the other hand should have kept what ever Orions they had origianally and not have received any 6xxx series Orions in the first place, that was a stupid move by Dept of Buses in my opinion. What Stengel should have received should have been the 38xx and 4xxx series RTS's from Staten Island. The 600 series Orions should have all been placed at Castleton to deal with the remaining RTS's. Thus leaving any of the Orions that are left to be gap fillers for any depot that has an equipment shortage. Stengel maintainance and operators are just as bad as the maintainance at Ulmer Park and Gun Hill depots and should be dealt with accordingly by not receiving any new buses.
Trevor Logan
Founder/Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
Well, Q5AHuxley, looks like your idea bombed, pal(nice name though).
However, I do not think anyone will be seeing RTS's back in CS anytime soon, as their bus washes are fitted to accept Orions only. Besides I shudder to think of JAM's 4500's (which have been there since 1986) getting destroyed in Flushing. In fact, whenever I see a JAM RTS on the Q17 I just hope that they make it back in one piece from Flu-Shing. I've lived near Merrick Blvd. for 20 years now, and JAM has come a long way. Back when they had the 1972 T6H-5309A's and the Flxible 7500's they sucked. Now, VERY few Jamaica Depot buses have scratched windows, or blown lights or busted destination signs, which is a testimony to their maintenance, especially when you consider the neighborhoods that its routes serve.
Thanks Alan. The way some of these jokers react you would think that I just cursed their families or something. Take it easy guys, it was just a suggestion. If I were to respond to all the silly posts I encounter here I'd be online indefinitely!! It's only buses guys (well, Hank) don't take it too seriously.
Alan, its good to know that you are from "around the way". Peace out neighbor.
Yo, thats all you gotta do, just take it with a grain of salt! Much Respect to your Huxley!
Trevor
Exactly! No hard feelings Huxley! It just sucks that Stengel has poor maintainance. Maybe if you were in charge of Maintainance it would be a better day at that depot.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
Co-Webmaster/Photographer
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
A RTS can go throught the bus wash at CS. When we had 4585 at the depot I ran it through the wash.
Excuse me man, who are you to put down maintenance and operators at CS. What do bus operators have to do with the conditon of the buses? Your statement is irrelevant to the topic. Our superiors (at CS)gives us a bus and we operate them. No matter how shitty or junky they look. Blame some of the damn dirty people in Flushing for the condition of the buses. When I pull out a bus, it looks and smells like Mr. Clean clean. But when I pull in it looks like shit. No one cares. Maintenance in the other hand works around the clock repairing those buses day in and day out. Orion is not the best bus in the market. Also we need to maintain service, so there is not enought time to clean the buses. Once a bus comes into the depot it comes right back out. The TA should start a terminal clearning program.
By the way Trevor, you should get out of your chair and away from the computer and operate a bus and see if you like that coment you wrote. Because, I sir, take alot of pride in the job I do.
Well Listen here BUDDY! I have driven a bus more than 20 times, OK! Get the facts before you jump my gun OK! Secondly if Casey Stengels maintenance was so damn good, why have I ridden a bus fresh out the damn yard looking like someone took a crap on it.
DONT YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFETIME, COME OUT YOUR FACE TO ME AGAIN LIKE THAT, Clear, I've driven more than enough buses to tell you about them!
Trevor
NOW EVERYONE HERE. CALM DOWN. I DON'T CARE "HE SAID THIS" "SHE SAID THIS" EVERYONE CALM DOWN!"
ALSO I have MUCH MORE PRIDE IN THE MTA, PROBABLY THAN ANY OF THE EMPLOYEES, and I've taken up much flack for my pride, so ALSO LETS NOT GET GUN-HO! I've seen more Bus operators pissing in the step than I can count between my fingers and toes! Look at TransiTALK and you'd see how much pride I have for the TA! AGAIN, DON'T JUMP THE GUN ON GETTING ON MY CASE EVER AGAIN UNTIL YOU KNOW ME WELL ENOUGHT TO DO SO, OK!
Trevor
It does always smell like urine in those "Stinky" Stengal buses but it could be from passengers too.
Just today I was on a 7 train, it was in extremely bad condition, severely scratched up windows, broken signs, and people spitting on the train floor, and several smelly "bums" who smelled like pee.
I've seen the condition of the Redbirds go from good to bad, and the Casey Stengal Orions used to be in very good shape, now they aren't.
Flushing is becoming a neighborhood full of people who think nothing of littering and defacing TA property. Just look at how much garbage is on the ground at Main and Roosevelt!
The CS depot probably wasn't used to dealing with all these problems and is now overwhelmed by the increase of vandalism of their buses.
Now though, CS depot and Corona Yard will have to increase train and bus cleaning since there's a ton of vandalism in the Flushing area.
As far as the streets are concerned, they'll have to get snowplows next year for all the garbage on Flushing's streets.
OH POOR BABY, SORRY you took things sooo personally. Remember what the site says 'No harrasing'. I will send you a bib for you can stop crying. Anyhow, you were the one with negative views on things. Futhermore, as you might know, bus operators are human, like u and more me. New York City Transit Authority does not supply us with portable bathrooms at terminals, so therfore we need to use the cup BUDDY. Some lines hardly have recovery time. You know what happens when you drink water right? If there was a McDonalds at all the terminals, maybe you will see less of that. But probabaly you get a hard on for watching bus operators pee in the cup.
Lets not ACT like such a big guy on the computer BUDDY. Instead of insulting operating members of the TA, listen and understand us for a change.
Sounds like you are the one who is harrising people! You need to take this to the personal e-mail arena. Now the deal is I have also seen drivers piss right out the back door even on the coldest of days and not because I wanted to see something like that! Of course it is easier to blame the riders for alot of the things that go on and that is true to a certain extent. This is not about being a baby about things and yes drivers should get more amenities and more time for things like that but at the same time you get a personal which you are allowed to take so to a point there is not excuse for this bull! You should be an adult about this situation and try to set an example but instead you want to be "Big Willie" and try to show how much of a great bus operator you are. I don't know you so I would not know how much of a great or poor bus operator you are, but to act like this here is not cool and to insult people is not accepted well here either. I stand behind Trevor and everyone else here how have an opinion and respect it weather it's good or bad. It is called freedom of speech. So it sounds like instead of Trevor getting a bib you need to get a gripp and control your self and act like a human being not a lower life form of which I will not bother to mention. If you want to take this on further I suggest you talk to yourself because this conversation is over! Before I go, Where do you get off talking to people like that and not expect them to take it personally when you decide to make a post to a certain persons attn:! You must be mad! Now this has nothing to do with me but I post here on the regular and I will not allow you to just talk to somebody/anybody including Hank they way you feel like it and then expect the people of BT to take it with a grain of salt! If you can't take this heat stay out of the Kitchen!
Now what!?
Hah, I love it. I never seen your name here either, NEW JACK. Take whom-ever side you want, I dont care. I been on this site since it started, I just never posted anything. It is amuzing to read how many people, in this site, are self exclaimed experts. No names mentioned, I might hurt their feelings. By the way, I can take any heat BUDDY, I drive the Q44.
Mr Casey,,Can you keep this garbage off the E-Mail and Bus Talk ..this insulting thing that you seem to enjoy is inappropriate for this type of group
If you have something constructive to offer,that is great,,,,but please,keep it off the Bus Talk
Steve
AMEN!!!
DaShawn
Mr Casey: If u hate buses so much, then why are you operating on Q44?
And I hate CS Orions I sure do wish RTS return. But if you do not have anything nice to say here, then get out. I agree with everybody here. If you had to pee so much then go in a cup and throw it out the window or down a drain. WHY GO IN REAR OF BUS?! No wonder why Casey STINKS!!! Please- GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE!
Q66#384Gary
You also sound like a idiot because you say "When I pull out a bus, it looks and smells like Mr. Clean clean. But when I pull in it looks like shit." Then you say "Also we need to maintain service, so there is not enought time to clean the buses." Thats about as backwards as two left shoes on a cow in the middle of the meadow!
Trevor
Hey Trevor, Thank You for quoting me.
First of all, GROW UP LITTLE BOY. Dont take things so personally.
Excuse me for the typos, you make a lot of them yourself BUDDY. My statement "MR. Clean clean" means that the bus smells like the product. Do you go shopping? Nah, probabaly your house looks like a CS Orion when I pull it in. And yes Casey Stengal needs to maintain service for you customers, that is why there is not enough time to clean the buses. A bus gets pulled in and at that second, it gets pulled out. You must be the idot for not understanding that.
Enough of this man, you sound like the type that must prove your point. Keep on attacking me till your heart is content. I'll read it and just laugh because your statements sound stupid. Just enjoy this site like it is meant to be enjoyed. Dont critize people or things until you find out the facts.
Pardon me BT, BUT ITS ON!
First of all who the fuck do you think you are talking to, I will light your ass up if I ever ride your freakin' bus! I you we're freakin' man enough, you'd leave your fucking route and run number so you can say this to my face instead of on-line, and so I can bust that ass! LITTLE BOY, HA! Someone done told you wrong! We'll see if you pop all this damn ying yang to my face, a TransiTALK field trip is coming up too! Show up to that and you won't be able to return to CS to drive the POS Orions. I have said All I have to say. Take heed, Leave your route and run number and test me if i won't bust that ass in front of your passengers!
TRY ME! JUST FUCKING TRY ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BYE
And I'll be at this Saturdays UTC meeting be there too and Be there and I'll freakin' throw you from the 19th floor!
Trevor
YO TREVOR......STOP ACTING LIKE SUCH A TOUGH GUY.......GRANTED YOU TAKE NICE PICTURES BUT YOUR ARE NOT EXACTLY A PEOPLES PERSON.......LETS JUST SAY A LITTLE BIRDIE TOLD ME THAT.......RELAX YOUR NERVES!!!!!!I HOPE YOU CAN BACK UP YOUR THREATS LITTLE MAN!
OH i back up everything I do and NO I'm a people person, I only take care of those close to me (Kevin Barsky, Gary Chatterton, DaShawn Pretlow, Clayton Parker, Jason Davis, Jason Benedetto, David Justiniano, Q5AHuxley, Glenn Rowe, just to name a few that I regard close)
Trevor
OH, another thing, if we were real peoples here, we'd use our real name like I do, I have nothing to hide when I tell someone about themselves!
Homes is my name are u making fun of me? Do not go there little man!!!!
Homes Richards
No I am not making fun of you, it was a general statement, primarly of for Mr. Casey! I have nothing against you, but i will respond if i feel comments are made about me are made in error!
And Little man, you'll need to quite that, I don't take lightly to that!
Trevor
CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, everyone just shut up!
YO CS Driver,
I think you should shut your mouth. You don't mess with Trevor because then that means you are messing with us. So, what I am telling you is to shut your god damn mouth and driver your POS Orion Bus before someone sticks it up your a**. I am just alerting you that you will regret it if you mess with Trevor.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!
Most of us here on BT have Trevors back including myself. Mr Casey just leave your run # and im sure business will be taken care of; no no I GUARANTEE TREVOR WILL TAKES CARE OF BUSINESS!!!!Oh you have been on BT from the beginning right? and you never had anything to contribute til now? Please man.I can see you are a trouble maker. You wanted trouble well now you got it!!!!! And you call trevor a baby and want to give him a bib.......well u seem more like a baby; one that cant hold his pis in so he pees on the back door. thats just nasty. I wish all the TA buses had cameras in them.
Keep on people. I Love it. My kidneys are hurting from laughing. Enough with the comments, before we ruin BT. No one here should threaten one another, it can get very serious. Lets continue with Bus topics, not people topics.
What you think I'm not serious, Back to the Buses!
Trevor
Casey or whatever your name is,
We all could go back to buses if we didn't have smart guys like you start trouble. So what I am saying is I think you should get the hell out of hear and there wouldn't be any problems.
You see, you guys are continuing with your nonsense. I'm not going to get the hell out of here. I'll continue reading BT and if it is necessary, i'll make comments. Really we should stop staying STUCK in the same old topic, it is not going any where. We all, including myself, are acting like children. Lets put a stop to it.
This is soo interesting! First off yes you do act like a child and that serves you right because now people are all fired up including me! This is that bull****! The wrong move was to talk all that trash to Trevor, I too back him up and there is no excuse for pissin in the back of the bus. If you got to use the cup well throw it in the garbage or better yet a storm drain. Just because some folks here decided to tell the truth about both maintainance and the drivers it sparked you to now be the new millenium man of truth for the drivers. Your actions have just started a big mess here on BT that we don't take well at all. Please don't mess with my li'bro Trevor because like posted earlier you are messing with all of us at TransiTALK and alot of people on BusTALK.
DaShawn Pretlow
Co-Webmaster/Photographer
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
The first comment I said about Trevor was not a insult, he toke it the wrong way. If you note, he was the one the one that responded with tremendous anger. I understand, every one here is Trevor's friend, but the discussion was not intended to exculate to this. There is no reason, for you guys, to continue kissing his ass. He and I have every right to say how we feel about a certain subject. I have my opinions and he has his. If you guys want to act like you are in a gang , well continue to do so. Your threats doesn't do me a single thing. Oh, by the way, I did not write that apology, somebody else did.
Also, I do not piss in a cup or on the steps in the back of the bus. Everyone was talking about any other bus operator in general. My defense was that bus operators are human, at some terminals there is not a place to take a leak, so, a BO has to use a cup. We dont drive Grayhound buses or work in a office, so there isnt any restrooms quickly available. If you drink water, as you know, eventually you will have to go to the bathroom. Many BO's drink alot of water because when they drive a long line, their mouth gets very dry. This practice has been going on since Yellow coaches. Almost all BO's throw their urine in the garbage or out the window. So, I dont know where you are coming with these false accusations. Just get over it. LETS END EVERYTHING! AND REALLY GET BACK TO TALKING ABOUT BUSES. IF WE CONTINUE WITH THIS NONSENSE, WE WILL CONTINUE GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES.
When I lived in Queens as youth I took the Q-60 from 2nd Ave and 60th
street on occasions. This was done so that I could get on at the first stop and get a seat instead of gambling on the old #15 (now M-32) seat availability.
Many times the bus would come down the ramp from the QB bridge. The bus would discharge its passengers and the driver would run into the back door of Eduardo's restaurant. I always thought that was a nice courtesy by the owners of a nice upscale establishment. I wonder how drivers came back as customers?
I am, so, so, sorry for what I have done. It was wrong. I should never, ever, have done that. I can not belive I have done that. My rightfulness has taken over me and I now state that we all hail Trevor, my good man.
I bet your kidneys will be hurting tomorrow when Trevor kicks u in them! I can laugh and this shiznit too! You say back to buses but you keep responding to the posts. Now back to buses----->
Last week I rode on a 600 series Orion in Queens and I actually thought the bus ran good. I also noticed many Queens Surface Suburban Orions running on local routes last Sunday.
Hey Lou, enough of the dreaming insults. Back2Buses........
The 600's are actually good buses, they have better pick up than the 500's. There is something strange there, huh?
THE 600S ARE MISSED ON STATEN ISLAND (AT LEAST BY ME). I WISH THEY KEPT SOME AT YUKON.
Mr Casey who ever you are please stop doing this & i know you a B/O at Casey Stergel Depot. Any way you need to claim down & stop bullshit with other people on bustalk. You need to show a respect with other bus buffs. Im not a member of MTA but some of my family are memeber of MTA & my father also B/O at West Side Depot. So what is your problem? I don't need to excuse about your bullshit. So chill out & enjoy with Bus & Sub Talk.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
PS: I know you going to said something about me after you read this so CHILL OUT MR. CASEY.
LOL. LOL
ROTFL, It is amazing how words hurt you. Dont threaten me BUDDY. Just simmer down. Oh yeah, I got a life so there is no need for me to go on any trip or UTC meeting. I dont even know what UTC is. So just fight yourself and your computer because this is strickly nonsense. By the way, I am not going to risk my 21 year at transit to lynch your ass. So dont talk all that BULL. You dont know who you are talking to. Back to the bus topics.......Did anyone see the ex SEPTA slant back in the Rocakaways from the A train?
HA!
I am tired of people ripping CS.As a passenger frequents the buses out of that depot,that there is a quite noticable diffrence in the condition of the CS 500's and the 600's they got from YUK.The 600's arrived in a condition far worse than any bus from CS.So for those who feel that CS should not gotten any 6000's is utterly ridiculous.The 6100's at CS are still in excellent shape.If there is any depot that should not have received any new Orions it should have been YUK .Those buses will be in far worse shape before CS buses.The only buses out of YUK if any are the MCI's (that are in good shape)CS should have gotten more than 20 buses with that last order.If anything YUK should gotten CS's 500's.
If Yukon is so bad, the YUK is an excellent abbreviation!
At least the Yukon buses get cleaned!
-Hank
Stengel has gotten rather lax with their maintainence. This seems to have happended recently because up to the mid 1990's their buses always looked good to me. In fact I always noticed how good their 1982 RTS (1700 series) looked until they started getting transferred. In the old day as FLU it's buses always looked very good. In the 1980's I found JAM to be not-so-good, but that seemed to change for the better later. When JAM had 3600's they seemed to be maintained well too and it's been a long time since 3600's were at JAM.
Instead of assigning new buses to the good depots and old battered buses to depots with bad or questionable maintainance - I think someone needs to crack down and make these people do their jobs. I think the person in charge of the depot should be held responsible. They need to identify the problem. Is it that these depots do not have the employees necessary to keep the buses in good condition and clean? If the depot has the necessary manpower, then someone is not doing their job and it needs to be handle in the appropriate manner.
Wayne
Get out of here man, leave the 200's and 300's in Casey Stengal. These buses are meant for fast surburban type routes, not slow city traffic. They are the most powerful buses in CS. When we had the Rockaway Shuttle last month, I operated 288 at 65 mph on the Cross Bay Blvd. I know, call me crazy, but i tell you something, the customers told me they got to their destinations faster than the A train. Furthermore, some of the 400's and 5oo's are dog's. They take for ever to get to 30 mph. Some of these buses sound like screamer fishbowl's. The 600's in the other hand are faster buses. I could live without the 6000's. Yes they are smoother, better pick up, but give me a 100-300 Orion any day!
I rode 579 and 271 today and I must say that 271 ran very nicely scratched windows and all.
Here at LI Bus our older Orion CNG's (100-130) are faster than the 200s, and the 500 series diesel Orions are faster than the 600s.
I think Orion used to make a better product than they make now.
The 400s/500s at Casey Stengal are aweful. Their windows are so scratched up, seats scratched, and those buses moan as they try to accelerate. I nickname those the "moaners" for moaning sound while accelerating.
Only 200 bus I can't stand is 258. This bus is a disgrace. I think it may have no rear route sign either.
Just learned recently that CTA (Chicago) is about to receive 150 Nova Low Floors. They already operate New Flyer Low Floors as well as a variety of RTS, Flxibles, Mans, New Flyers & maybe other models as well. Saw NYC's demo 995 a few days before Christmas on the M23 and wondered how she was doing. Does anyone know if NYC going to get more of these and/or when? Seems this test is pretty serious.
According to what I was told by the Dept of Buses our Demo is surpassing all qualifications set by the MTA. This bus is being looked into as a future purchase, but with this push for clean air buses the MTA requested to NovaBus that a CNG version of the LFS be built. NovaBus to this request into consideration and is now in the research and development stages of building a NovaBUS LFS generation 3 CNG version. This R & D is schedueled to be completed by Winters end. A production demo is schedueled for this summer. 9 times out of 10 since the MTA made the request for the CNG LFS, they will 9 times out of 10 recieve the demo. According to my correspondants at NovaBus they hope to have a large production order for the TA by the year 2001.
For those Hybrid fans the 5 production NovaBUS Hybrid 06 has been rumored to be NovaBUS RTS-06 WFD Hybrids "RTS-08", this is a rumor handed over to me from the Canadian office of NovaBUS. I will contact the Roswell, NM office to see if this is true. I will BT know the exact truth when I am done contacting the Roswell, NM office.
Trevor Logan
Founder/Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
Rode a few of these new buses on New Years eve and New Years day on Pelham Pkwy. Quick obesrvation was that bus 5250 still has the standard blue paneling below the windows (interior), while 5265 and 5267 have blue upholstery on the wall in the same location.
Other than that, not too much different. Yawn!!!
Joe C
Very true. The other differences are more mechanical. The front right destination sign has been respostioned to the upper portion of the window. The Series 50 engine has been increased from 315HP to 320HP, and of course the wheels are steel and not aluminum. Besides that you are right nothing really different.
PEace
DaShawn Pretlow
Photographer/Co-Webmaster
TransitTalk Platinum 2000
Yeah. Some of the buses on the Bx12 have the new artic's. I actually rode inside of one to 207 Street in Manhattan. I just have two questions.
1) Were these buses ordered in order to have enough artic's for the M79-86?
2) If so, why didn't the new artic's end up on the M79-86?
Clark Palicka
TrAnSiTiNfO
There have been 2 reasons discussed here, the first (and most implausible one) is that New Flyer would not honor their warranty if the new buses were placed into service in Manhattan. The second, and more reasonable explanation, is that the new buses have a ton of anti-vandal innovations, and since buses are more likely to be vandalized in the outer boros than in Manhattan, the new buses go there.
-Hank
would like general info on retarders///also on yellow exterior indication light under drivers windshield (newer busses)thanks
Change your prefences so you can see the last 2 months posts. All the info you'll ever want about retarders is in there.
-Hank
The short answer is that the Retarder is the use of the transmission to slow down the bus and thus save ware on the brakes. Some operators have them on, some off. Most turn them partially or totally off in inclement weather. Thanks to fellow colleagues Hank, Fernando & others for providing us insite in this area previously.
Mr t__:^)
Another thing you might want to do is go to www.howstuffworks.com and look up 'Jake Brake', 'Diesel Engine', and 'Internal Combustion'.
-Hank
Yesterday, on a TransiTALK outing, Bus 8397 was photographed on the pit at Manhattanville, so for those that haven't seen this bus before prepare to see it by this sunday on TransiTALK!
Trevor Logan
Founder & Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
TransiTALK
Today i just added some of Bus Pictures & check out NovaBus L/F #995. GO check my Bus's Page. More Bus pictures will add soon.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Good work! I am heartened to see that all the GM and Flxible New Look models depicted on the web page have the split (four-piece) rear window arrangement on the tail end which I prefer.
In addition, the bus numbered 2969 which was Old Look was actually a TDH-4509 manufactured around November-December, 1950. This was the bus made famous by Jackie Gleason, Audrey Meadows, Art Carney and Joyce Randolph posing in and around the bus for publicity photos in August of 1955 for the then-to-be-filmed Classic 39 Honeymooners episodes.
The TDH-4509 Bus #2969 has long since gone. It was originally New York Omnibus, later Fifth Avenue Coach. The TA Museum Bus #2969 was originally a TA bus in the 4500-4899 series (I believe it was #4567, but am not 100% sure). Somewhere along the line they renumbered it to #2969, but it retained its original TA paint scheme.
it was 4789 and was repainted to match original paint scheme.
Today i just added some of Bus Pictures & go check my NYCTransiTrans's Page & soon i will add MCI's Page.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
What an original name for you website .....i like it!. Are you related to TransiTalk? What does TransiTrans mean anyway...just curious.
Lou: My original website was NYCT-MTA & im part of TransiTalk. NYCTransiTrans is only i take pictures in NYCT Bus & Subway but im not interested taking pictures of Private line, Metro North, Long Island bus & subway & other not on my page.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
PS: Are you taking a test for T/O this saturday?
IM NOT TAKING THE T/O TEST ON SATURDAY. I AM CURRENTLY A NYPD TRANSIT COP IN MANHATTAN. BTW I REALLY ENJOYED YOUR WEBSITE!!
LOU STERN
Thank P.O. Stern & i alway want to be a cop but i have a hearing problem on my right ear. So thank you for visit my page & come back again!!!! More pictures to come over this weekend.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Have all the GM buses in DC been retired. I thought they had, but when I went to the Western Depot, I saw 3806, a GM, sitting there.
Also, why were the buses turned on with their doors open? A few had their destanation signs saying "NOT IN SERVICE" (one was signed for the L2) and some of the doors were open. The gates to the depot were open as well, so if there was a key in the ignition, the bus could be driven off, or at least vandalized. I also saw a bus at Friendship Heights saying "EMERGENCY CALL POLICE." Apparently, the driver had made the bus start its emergency mode. How easy is it for them to do this?
Yes there is still GMs Operating in DC! OH and its Quite easy to sum that second question up!
Trevor
There is also a Flxible (53096-6-1) still operating too. I usually saw it yesterday (8597) and it's usually on the Z5.
Wayne
I am assuming you live in the DC area because you seem to be seeing the same bus over and over. Am I correct?
Yes, you're right. I am a NYC native, but I moved to the DC area nearly 3 years ago.
Wayne
You mention buses "turned on with their doors opened" -- do you mean the ENGINE door, or the passenger doors? If the engine doors were opened, perhaps maintenance department was doing some sort of a check.
To tell you the truth, in my experience, MOST transit agencies seem to leave their doors/gates open at yards.
And -- transit buses, as far as I have seen in 26 years of driving buses, NEVER have ignition keys! Most tour/charter buses don't either, but I did drive for one company that had ignition keys for their MCI buses (and funny thing, they were FORD keys!)
As for the "EMERGENCY" sign reading -- a few different things could have happened to cause that 'phenomenon'. The bus may have been involved in a real emergency the day before and pulled into the yard with the sign reading. Or, the service workers might have accidentally pushed the alarm button to cause it. Or, as I have seen in our agency, some wise-ass driver walking through the yard did that! (Yes, I've seen it done....) In any event, if the sign was reading "EMERGENCY" during the night in the yard, it would keep that reading when fired up in the morning, until the driver reset the signs. (Hopefully the driver saw it and did reset it, so no problems occured when they hit the streets!)
Does anyone have Fleet Rosters or Route Assignments for WMATA?
.
As the M34 is moving to Hudson, i assume the M16 is as well?
Nope.
What other route moves are there for 1/16 for MABSTOA?
Which routes in Manhattan are currently using articulateds, and how many articulateds on each route?
Articulated buses currently running on M79 but West Side Depot only have 20 so far & 65 more coming soon. 126th St Depot will be getting only 15 Articulated. Soon Articulated buses will be running on M86, M102, M15 & maybe M23.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
They are running on the M86, just testing though, only one run a day, in fact I rode on 1014 yesterday on the M86. Looked like the driver knew what he was doing.
Peace Out
-Clayton
The plan isto have the M79, M86 and(possibly) the M23 completely articulated by this summer. But, with the articulateds running they are going to cut down service on these routes. Now, what is the point of running longer buses with more passenger room and seats,if they are going to cut the service? It does not really make any sense.
It does. Simply, if there were 30 RTSs, they only need 20 Artics. The other 10 can go on a route that needs them.
There will be no service cut & they need articulated because it increase more passenger on the bus. Two weeks ago i got on the bus with my father who is a B/O on M79 & he rode articulated #1003 when he left at 11:50am from East Side to Broadway it draw more passenger on his bus & it was crowned. Don't forget MTA can't cut the services because in new york city have a been increase passenger over couple years now. The average weekday passenger is 2,040,000 went up 15 percent last year while weekend went up almost 20 percent.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
They are going to cut the service! It was on NY1 today and has been talked about for a very long time. It makes no sense to run a 60 foot bus line the same way you would run a bus line with 40 foot buses. It is a waste of resources. Imagine having to 2 artics at a bus stop side by side or behind each other. This is a nightmare and just makes no sense. The service on the crosstown lines with full artic service would only be cut by a third and the former buses used would be sent to other lines that need those extra buses.
Peace
DaShawn Pretlow
Co-Webmaster/Photographer
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
I don't believe this & this is bull****. It don't make any sense to me & why MTA want to cut some service? Come on MTA wake up city is increase more people coming from somewhere & they should stay the way they are now. I hope MTA better built Second Aveune Line before more people coming to New York in the Future.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
You're right Dave, it is BS. No service cuts are in store, but I will double check.
Remeber what I said a few months back about what appeared to be bus bunching? On heavily crowded routes, you sometimes have 2 or even 3 buses running on schedules that are identical, or a minute apart. So now with artics, instead of running 2 40' buses on the same schedule, they run 1 artic. That's TECHNICALLY a service cut, but it's not one the passengers will see. It IS possible to have more crowded buses, even with artic s, because those buses on the same schedule may not leave from the same location (ie, an M15 from 126st at 4:00 stops at 96st at 4:15, and another M15 leaves 96st at 4:15. Now you have 2 buses on the same schedule, one empty, one already carrying passengers. To the layman, it looks like bunching, to the TA, that's a spot where a bus with doule the capacity would be cost-effective.)
-Hank
The problem is that 2 artics are much slower than 3 40 footers in operation. They take much more time to load and unload. Also, if they run 1/3 less often than 40' buses, passenger service will be less efficient. I waited FOREVER at 5th Avenue for the M79 a few weeks ago, and when it finally came, it took another FOREVER to load passengers -- many changes of traffic light! Then FINALLY, it took off across the park where, it didn't have to stop for 3 whole blocks -- the best part of the ride. Then, on the west side it was back to mostly sitting in one place. I don't know if this is typical artic operation, but if it is, it is not going to be popular with riders. People don't want to wait excessive time for huge buses that don't move. I thoguht that the artics were coming to move more people more efficiently. I still hope that is so.
I agree with you guys! This is why the M79 is being done as an experiement. Check out the latest informatin on the TransiTALK roster that was received from DOB today, and the posting on BT from Trevor.
Peace
DaShawn Pretlow
Co-Webmaster/Photographer
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
They board just as quickly. 20 people boarding a bus is still 20 people boarding a bus. It's the people that slow them down. The number of times I've had to wait while some dope fumbles counting their change, or trying to figureout which metrocard has the money on it. Thank goodness we don't have bill accpetors on any but NYBS and Liberty Lines. Waiting for these people to open their wallets (think of the objections to using the MC!), smooth out their bills, stick them in correctly, all while you are standing in the rain.
-Hank
Yes, 20 people is 20 people. But if it's an artic, we may be talking about 30 people vs. 20 people. 30 takes longer than 20. This is an issue if the frequency of service is adjusted downward because of the increased capacity of the artics. My experiences on M79 artics is that they seem to spend much more time at stops than in motion. Friends of mine in Chicago have also observed that the artics there seem slower in operation than 40 foot buses.
Is is a question of dollars and cents. If the TA can get 3 bus loads of people into 2 by running articulated buses on a crosstown route they will do it! It saves on salary and benefits of one driver and the cost of running a bus. There are lots of people employed by the TA/MTA in executive positions employed in fiscal matters like this. Like it or not!
I heard this from a friend of mine the other day:
Is it true that if a driver is running on a certain route monday thru friday, can he or she run a different route (at the same depot) on a weekend or even a holiday?
Probably. I imagine this is true because of different schedules and some routes not operating. For example, and operator on the M98 weekday afternoons will not be on the M98 on a Sunday afternoon. He/she would be on a different route from the same depot.
Yes it is true. If a driver pick what is call in the OA, Reguel Day Off floater (RDO Floater) or in the TA an, Work Run. These peaces work the day off of runs that out driver work. Exp. Run 10 on the B16 has Thursday & Friday. One Work Run will have both of these days on this run. There may be work Run may go on other lines to fill out other line day off. So Work Run can be on different lines on different days inclouding week days. So I hope this helps.
Robert
Hey Robert,maybe take a spelling lesson .Whats your problem,DYSLEXIA. BEEN SHIFTING LATELY,,,,,,,DID YOU LOOSE WEIGHT YET.......WE MISS YOU AT UP YEAH RIGHT,,,,,,,
Does anyone have details of Short Turns in these Boros,including the streets used for these said Turnarounds
Thanks
Steve
The following New York City metropolitan area related items are currently being offered on eBay:
227208605 (Subway Brooklyn Rockaway Canarsie), 227675456 (Articulated Subway Cars), 227692688 (Third Avenue Railway System), 228466741 (Brooklyn PCC Cars), 228475918 (Pennsylvania Railroad Hudson and East River Tunnels - an extremely rare book), 230248814 (IRT 1913 Employee Magazine), 230999720 (Long Island Railroad Employee Magazine), 229915263 (IRT 70th Anniversary) and 229915676 (IRT 1939 World’s Fair Cars).
On the second weekend in February, TransiTALK is planning a photography field trip, detail are being ironed our as we speak. This is your opportunity to meet the faces behind the page.
If interested, e-mail us at transitalk@yahoo.com or MTABoy2000@cs.com and you will be given deeper details.
Trevor Logan
Founder & Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
Email me all the info........
B46M Limited
I'm interested. E-mail me the info.
Clark Palicka
I have created a webring for the TrAnSiTiNfO page. Click to the link below to join!!!!
Clark Palicka
JOIN TrAnSiTiNfO's WEBRING
Go to TrAnSiTiNfO's homepage
AGAIN. I have added a webring to my site!!! 3 ppl have already joined in one day. If you would like to become apart of this webring, 1)you must have a webpage 2) it must be about transit.
If you're interested click Here.
Clark Palicka
TrAnSiTiNfO's homepage
AGAIN. I have added a webring to my site!!! 3 ppl have already joined in one day. If you would like to become apart of this webring, 1)you must have a webpage
2) it must be about transit.
If you're interested click Here.
Clark Palicka
TrAnSiTiNfO's homepage
I have added a webring to my site!!! 3 ppl have already joined in one day. If you would like to become apart of this webring, 1)you must have a webpage
2) it must be about transit.
If you're interested click Here.
Clark Palicka
TrAnSiTiNfO's homepage
Whats Up everyone? Im looking for PIRATE MODELS of HO Fishbowls, Grummans and RTS's. Does any Bus Talk reader have any surplus PIRATE model buses they will like to sell?
I have over 150 model buses in my collection, this includes Fishbowls, Flxible Metros and a few RTS's. I am currently looking to expand this fleet. Lets make a deal, post what you have in this site and I'll get back to you.
I still have an unassembled T8H5307A. I also have a Grumman 870 and RTS that are assembled and painted NYC colors but are missing their mirrors. And I have a P8M4905A painted for a company I used to work for but I never got around to lettering the sides of it. It was a real pain in the butt to assemble properly!! Of course, Pirate Models didn't make anyof their kits easy to assemble.
I've got about 40 different Corgi fishbowls, and old looks -- some of which I disassembled and custom painted (NYCTA, LIRR, SF Muni, SCRTD, etc.)
if you can find a way for me to buy the ho scale of grumman870,gmcrts or new look buses, please let me know.
TransiTALK has just updated it NYC Bus with most current information as of TODAY at 2:00pm! Includes new bus totals! Check it out Bus Roster
Also the Facility Information goes as such:
Crosstown WILL remain a shop! Maspeth and Zerega Avenue to become new CMF Shops!
Mother Clara to become Hybird Depot when the next 125 Hybrids arrive!
Manhattanville to become a CNG Depot! 100th Street will NOT be a CNG depot and will NOT receive any artics when it opens back up!
126th WILL NOT RECEIVE ANY ARTICS, this has be postponed until the next order of artics come in which is the 140 option from the current order, in which then 126th will receive 70 artics! Westside artics are slated for the M86, M14, M23, M102. They WILL NOT STAY ON THE M79! The M79 IS ONLY A PILOT TEST ROUTE!
New Flyer C40LF buses to continue deliveries in April!
NovaBUS LFS to move to the Bronx in March or April!
30 of the 1999 New Flyer D60 Articulated has been delivered!
125 CNG Orion 7s and 125 Hybrid Orion 7s have been ordered, the Orion 7 is a totally redesigned version of the Orion 6 and we will be the first to have it!
Breda order has not changed, 75 are due in 2001!
All New MCIs are in!
Hope that this is helpful!
Trevor Logan
Founder & Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
I doubt the Artics leave the M79. Why weren't they tested on the M86 if it is slated to get them? They wouldn't be tested where they won't run for a while.
The artics are on the M79 for driver's to get used to them, when all of the Artics arrive in the Bronx, Artic assignments will go as I stated before!!!! M79 will not stay a artic line past next fall!
Trevor
Now Im confused with this information & the information doesn't make any sense to me.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
PS: I have change from NYCT-MTA to NYCTransiTrans Bus & Subway's Page.
Its not that hard to understand. E-mail me with your confusions and I'll really get deep and clarify it for ya!
Trevor
Timeframe on articulated going to 126st
send e mail respons please. may be a week or two before I surf. But receive e-mail on palm5 daily.
The 126th Street Artics are due when the 140 bus option is taken which is set to happend for the 3rd or 4th quarter of 2000!
Trevor
"The 126 Street Artics are due when the 140 bus option is taken"
Trevor is correct...DOB has reveised the artic assignment. Westside will be receiving some new artics. Now this will make your head spin, but here it goes:
5250-5284 (35)GH
5285-5294 (10)KB
5295-5309 (15)WS
5310-5379 (70)GH
5380-5444 (65)KB
5445-5459 (15)WS
5460-5485 (26)GH
5486-5499 (14)KB
5500-5509 (10)WS
In total that's 131 for GH, 89 for KB, 40 for WS = 260. WS will still get 1000's from the Bronx, but I am not clear as to the quantity.
Now im getting real confused with those new assignment.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Nothing to get confused about, the TA just changed their minds on lot of this for the FY2000! Thats all!
Trevor
New Flyer D45S "Viking" #997 has returned to New Flyer but will return with the other 2 in about a week or two. So be patient she will be back
Trevor
Former Fresh Pond bus 4742 arrived in Ulmer Park this week with fresh
paint and express coach seating.I wonder if there might be more of
these on the way????????????????
ANDY/UP
Wasn't that the fire-damaged bus that was sitting in Herkimer Yard for months?
David
Yes.
It is a tribute to the base shop forces who restored that bus. A couple of years ago, an operator called in a smell of smoke on that bus. It was checked out at Fresh Pond: no defect found. It went back out on the Q54 and burnt up. This was shortly after a mechanical upgrade! That bus was virtually destroyed. I know since I walked inside the bus. You could see the ground thru the floor! I have pictures. Once I can dig them out and get our new scanner set up, I'll see what I can do. I showed the pictures at UTC. One downside: it is an old bus (1987). Was it really cost effective to rebuild this bus? In addition, it won't get too much total mileage on it being in express service till the time it's retired.
I drove this bus the first day it was put out into service on the x28. It still smells like it is burning up. Although the outside paint job looks great, the inside looks very bad (probably took spare parts from other busses when they rebuilt it). The mirror arm was broken along with the destination sign and the speedometer. Paper was still covering the back windows, the seats were not installed correctly and the bus was filthy. It seemed as if they just wanted to get this bus in service as soon as possible.
The bus did ride nice though.
As far as it not getting too much mileage on express service - Its in Ulmer Park! You can be sure it will be used on both express and local runs for a long time to come.
Well,like i always say,nothing but the best for ULMER PARK!!!!!!!!!!!
By the way,i am hitting the road this pick,late nights on the B4.
Andy
Sorry about the loss of the b82 come 1/16/00. maybe in the next pick, you guys either get back the B68 or you get another route, but at least you guys get the X27 back. 1 out of 2 isnt bad.
Wasn't this bus assigned to Fresh Pond recently?
Yes, then it had a fire on Q54 a while back, then was brought back from the scrap yard into regular Express Passenger service at UP.
MM2000
Anyone know exactly where on the Q54 route 4742 had the fire?
As I stated earlier, I rode the Q44/20 today and what a joke this arrangement is. Firstly, the Q44LTD makes too many damn stops along Main Street. After Union Tpke, the 44 makes unnecessary stops at both 73 Avenue, and Melbourne Avenue, for connections to the Q74 which no one rides. It also stops at Bowne HS, Elder Avenue (Botanic Gardens) and Flushing HS. With the 44 making all these stops there is absolutely no difference between the local and the limited.
Case and point, I was on the Q20B (bus 579). The Q44 Limited (bus 400) left Merrick right after us and caught up at Sutphin and Hillside. Bus 400 did not pass us until Main and 75th Ave. We passed it again a few blocks later, and it in turn, didn't pass us until 59 Avenue. From that point on we ran together to Main and Roosevelt. The trip back was the same crap with the LTD barely outrunning the local. The only real limiteds in NYC are, any of the Manhattan LTD's, the Bx12, Bx55, B41, B44, B46 and Q46. I am not sure how the S91, 92, 94, 96 and 98 are on Staten Island, so I won't comment on them.
The Q44/20 is bogus unless they remove some of those useless stops.
I ride the Bx1/2 Limiteds and they make good time also. They are a bit slow at times, but usually they run away from the locals.
Wayne
The reason why nobody is on the 74 these days is because Queens College is out till February.
The B46 Limited is pretty useless north of Empire Blvd, because Utica/Malcolm X is down to one traffic lane. Since all the stops have parked cars in them, it is usually impossible for the Limited to pass up the local.
I agree to a certain point on that aspect......
B46M Limited
Not only that, but the drivers frequently do not enforce the limitedness of the stops. Almost every time I ride the Q44 there's a passenger, usually a tearful, doe-eyed teenaged girl or young woman who asks the driver to stop at a stop that is NOT designated as "Limited".
The driver, especially if male, complies every time.
I don't know if this is the case on other Limiteds.
I have never seen a case like that on the B46Limited or the B41Limited........
B46M Limited
My limited experience on the Limiteds in Manhattan is similar - it's extremely rare to find a driver who will stop a Limited at anything other than a Limited Stop. I guess they figure (correctly) that they've been around so long in Manhattan that most riders should know by now they do not stop at every bus stop.
If, in your opinion, there are too many stops on a LTD route, complain to the TA. Normally, LTDs have stops at transfer points and major customer destinations. Perhaps the Q44 has so many of these places along its route, providing LTD service is a moot point.
Yesterday the last GMC RTS at Queens Surface Corp. was retired. We now have just TMC RTS, MCIs & Orions in our fleet of over 325. The exact number is still in flux as new Orions keep showing up.
BTW, the lowest Orion will be #396 ... 397 & 398 can be seen in service already.
Mr t__:^)
Were they scrapped, transferred to another DOT co. or bought by another operator?
[Were they scrapped, transferred to another DOT co. or bought by another operator?]
A & C, B may still happen, but not yet.
Mr t__:^)
Those ancient pieces of garbage are still in use on Command. PRIMARY use. Your company should buy all the other privates, or those privates should pass into TA hands.
They are not in primary use at Command. If you ever take the B100 you will see MCI Classics and the TMC CNG buses operating on the line. There are 10 GMC RTS left and the drivers will pull out something else if they can.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
TransiTALK V.P.
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
ssometimes you may see a orion on the b100 too, but its rare
So, how many GMC-RTSes were there and how many are needed for B100 service?
Command had 1984 GMC RTS 351-356 and 1985 GMC RTS 357-381. I believe they need 10-15 buses per day for the B100. There is an extra bus used to transport students to and from South Shore High School.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
TransiTALK President
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
send the old rts 04 to command. the ones they have have scratched windows,scratched seats and messy.
Too late;Command is already sending them (the RTS-04)to GBL.
623-652, 655-659 are EX-Commands in service at GBL. 653-654, 717-718 are EX-Triboro Coaches.
MM2000
As long as DOT continues to provide buses, garages, and guaranteed profit margins (plus coverage of ALL expenses, including campaign contributions and "penalties" for bad service), with only minimal oversight and no audits, none of the private carriers will ever sell (or allow the City Charter-mandated competitive bidding process).
First, let me thank many of you here for the kind words about QSC.
Second, It was our President who asked a question of DOT a few years back when the city was in the final design stages of our new building.
That resulted in a major modification to add CNG fueling capability. Command was also the benificiary of this DOT awakeing (although I'm not positive which CNG job was decided on first, so QSC won't take all the credit).
Third, modified/new CNG fueling is comming for the other "privates" it's just a little more complicated at those company vs. DOT owned garages. CNG is comming to many more TA depots too, but the TA is still looking at other alternates.
Disclaimer: I'm not a official spokesman for DOT or QSC
Mr t__:^)
From what I hear China bought them. I am not sure if they bought them all, but I do know that China bought them.
China the COUNTRY?
At this moment in time the the storage lot is full, so we can't send anymore there (Brooklyn). I don't think they ALL were bought by any one entity, and I do know that some were cut up.
P.S. Many are in pritty good shape, at least the ones that left our facility.
Mr t__:^)
That's the title of an article in yesterday's DailyNews artile by Maki Becker.
Customer said: "They're sort of dirty"
Queens Boro Pres. Shulman replyed: "One thing that has improved is the cleanliness"
Customer said: "Some of the drivers are discourteous ..."
--> Would that be more so then the TA drivers ?
Customer said: (they need) "more buses"
--> That's a reasonable request. A significant number has been added city wide, i.e. it isn't like DOT was ignorring the problem.
Trivia test: Article claims 91 routes in Queens & Brooklyn served by the "privates", is Maki Becker correct ?
Article also talks about campain contributions & the issues of who should best oversee the operations (planning/mngt, i.e. do we need more routes or change their routing) OR run them, i.e. could the TA do a better job. However, this is a short article so don't look for more them thumb nail detail on these issues.
P.S. Nice photo of cTc GMC RTS #650.
Mr t__:^)
for a long time, i have always seen buses that ran from Ulmer Park with scratched windows. Recently, i have seen the 7500's and the 9000's that used to have scratched windows on them clean! Congradualtions to the maitence guys for keeping these buses in good shape. I do however see the 4700's from Amsterdam and the 3600's and 3700's look bad, but i assume the 3600's and 3700's are leaving ulmer park when they get new buses, though i wonder what they will get. If anyone knows what Ulmer Park is supposed to get to replace those 3000's series, let me know.
8200s from Hudson..........
8200 from hud going to WS.
get a life !!!!!!!
I couldn't believe the BS I just read. It sounded like a bunch of 4th graders going at each other. Well, I guess it will be up to me the JAM-man himself, Q5A, to restore sanity to BT.
OK, no more CS discussions, as that depot only creates trouble. Let's stay in Queens and see if we can piss off any JAM operators. I spoke about Q44 LTD, today I will attack all of JAM's Limiteds. The Q4, 5 and 85 are three of the most useless pieces of crap I have ever seen. In fact, the Q85 Limited is not even scheduled to pass the local at any time. Check it out on the recaps. I can't attack JAM's maintenance though. They have the best looking buses in the city, bar none.
As I've said here before, just because the phone rings doesn't mean you have to answer it ... I didn't read ANY of that thread !
Mr t__:^)
I thought for a long time, that the TA's C-49 Mack was the only surviving Mack of its type. Recently RD Childs told me that he knows of two in museums in the East. I lost that information, and would appreciate the location of those two. Then the Pacific Bus Museum has one, but I don't have the details of that either. Joe C. from here just told me about a friend who has one of his own C-49's.
Anybody know of any other Macks of that era still surviving? I almost forgot about the MTA's Sperry Car, which I think is of that noble lineage.
While I am at it, does anyone know of Mack clones that were built in Canada in the 50's by a Canadian company under license from Mack? I remember seeing them when I was in Montreal in the 1960's, and was surprised to see them without the Mack logo under the windshield.
Thanks for any info. paul
Mack buses were also exported to P.R., Brasil, and even built under license in Sweden.
Another friend in Richmond, Va owns two Macks, both C45 or C47's. One is a "fishbowl" type built about 1958.
The Ohio museum near Cleveland has a C50. I think I read recently in Motor Coach Age or Motor Coach Today that there is a C50 in another museum. Pacific Bus has the 'hound C49.
Another Sperry car (ex Mack C49) is at the Danbury R'way museum.
There are others; I can't recall them offhand.
The Canada buses I think were built by Mack, perhaps in Canada. I saw somein 1971 and they had the emblems. In fact Toronto had 10 C50's. The picture I have shows one and it had the familiar bulldog in the round frame on the front.
Joe C
I recollect back in the mid-1980's, during a visit to Brussels, seeing a bus of Mack design in the trolley museum in that city. I assume it may have been built in Sweden as you mentioned.
The Swedes, at least, had good sense and forsight to keep a unique vehicle around. Mack contracted with Scania Vabis to build the C50 as designed for NY. They even copied Surface's paint scheme. Small destination sign, though. Room enough for a route # only. And left-handed operation. Scania later built C47 type buses and enhanced the side windows. Later on they hit off on their own.
A friend in Richmond has a nice C47 "fishbowl". Sure wish Yonkers Transit saved one of these. They were powerful, road like clouds, didn't have that typical "brutish" look of the older Macks. When they were given up, one or two went to NJ for use on the old Blue & White route #97, in Journal Sq. Short lived.
Joe C
I was a fan of the five C-49's that Bee Line (the original Bee Line, from Rockville Centre, Long Island, NY) bought in July 1959. They originally had heavy gold trim on the front end. When they were re-painted in the 60's, the gold trim became white, making the buses look even better. I believe Yonkers Transit got their last C-49's about the same time that Bee Line did. Again, too bad that none of them were preserved!
When I moved up to Mt Vernon in late 1968, and for the few years I lived there, Westchester Surface Ways had a great collection of old look GM's and Macks, one or two of which had the exact scheme as Hempstead Buses did. What stuff I found in those days. Would love to
turn up some of these things somwhere, but my feeling is it is all memory now.
Joe C.
I also remember the Bee Line C-49s with the more modern front and single full-width rear window. There were only 5 of them as I recall. When they were repainted, the original front bumpers were replaced with bumpers that looked like they came from GM new look buses. These must have been some of the last ones built.
Those Macks were #620-624 in Bee Line's fleet. They were the first 40 foot buses Bee Line used on the Merrick Road run (now the N-4). #600-619, Bee Line's 40 foot GM old-looks, were used on Hempstead Turnpike (now the N-6) exclusively until Bee Line got its first 10 40-foot new-look buses. The Macks were gone by the time MSBA took over the Nassau County privates around 1973, even though some of the GM old-looks were still around.
The Ohio Museum of Transportation (Kent OH) has a 1951 C50DT (ex-Cleveland) saved but it does need some work done on it to make it operational.
The Antique Motor Coach Assn of Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh PA) has a 1947 Mack preserved. I'm not exactly sure of the model but it's either a C50 or C-49 but was a gasoline bus originally and converted over to diesel. We think this bus came from St Louis originally but not sure yet. This bus also needs some work done on it to make it operational.
RDChilds
'Tis a real shame that a unique C50 from Board of Transportation (NY) was never saved, that we know of. Nor a 5th Ave coach C50.
Re: C49's: Surface and 5th Ave had a unique fleet, absorbed into the MaBSTOA fleet. The lowest 10 had air suspension, originally 3000-3009.
The middle series were 2900's with air suspension. The last in MaBSTOA fleet, 2990 to 2999 were spring supsension, blt in 1954. They bacame 4990-4999. The 5th ave buses had flourescent lights and parlor seats in the rear (ran around the back of the bus). A dark day for bus transit & fans in NY when they were retired. None saved.
Joe C
Not sure if anyone saw this. Westchester Cty is ordering for 2001 delivery 68 new artics to replace 61 built in 1983/ 1984. Per the NY Times, they will feature lifts and will use Detroit Diesel Ser 60 engine. Of course, they will run on Bee Line's heaviest routes in lower Westchester into the Bronx.
Grab your MAN artics shots while you can.
Joe C.
Can you post the article,please
Steve
Steve, other than writing the article word for word, I have no way to scan it. It came from the Sunday NY Times, Westchester Section, Dec19 or Dec 26th. I need to recheck.
Rgds,
Joe C
Please let me know,thank you
Steve
Can you at least tell me the author or page number so I can look it up in Proquest Direct?
Forget it, I just found it, for a copy, e-mail me.
Yes this is true here is the total scoop!
These are gonna be 68 Neoplan Transliner AN460 Articulateds, YES NEOPLAN!!!! Featuring a DDC Series 60 Engine at a 330 Horsepower Rating, Allison World B500R 6 Speed Transmission (Just so happens the same combination as our MCI Cruisers), Sutrak Dual Roof Mount A/C, and a load of the normal Bee Line Features, these will also include a new passenger annunciation system too!
Trevor
Where are these artics based? On which routes are they operated? Can one easily obtain any assignment sheet from Bee Lines?
Well, the Neoplan AN460 Articulateds have not even arrived yet. These buses are slated to begin deliveries in late 2000-early 2001! So hold your horses, they will be coming, BUT NOT RIGHT NOW. These buses when they come, they will operate Bee Line's 7, 20, 21, 40, 60-61-62 lines. So Be Patient, I've seen a demo of this bus and its worth the wait.
Trevor
Is this a brand new model for Neoplan, or is it the same artic Neoplan has been producing for a number of years? If the latter, BusTalkers can get a sneak preview of what it looks like by heading down to New Brunswick, NJ, and riding the Rutgers University Route F (it's free!). Also, if the latter, I'll send a photo to TransiTALK to see if it can be posted on my Contributor's Page.
This is the same bus produced by Neoplan just some major improvments to the structure, and the design.
Trevor
Neoplan has done some homework. The updated model is a joy to ride. The new artics in Pittsburgh are terrific. About time Neoplan got SOMETHING in the NY area. (Philly doesn't count).
I would hope to see a MAN or two saved, especially #661, the x-TA demo.
Joe C
Thanks
Steve
These are going to be the Neoplan Transliner AN460 Articulated, NO BUS#s ASSIGNED YET!
Trevor Logan
CEO & President
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
THank you
Does anyone know what the designations mean? I know the "60" means 6o feet. WHat about the "AN4"? I suppose I should digup my Neoplan material, but I'm just too lazy.
Joe C
AN4 is a series number assigned to the Transit Sytle neoplans, AN3 is assigned to the Suburban Cruiser types, and AN1 is assigned to the Coaches!
Trevor
Hey, thanks Trevor.
Joe C
Unless a person has connections at BeeLine, there is usually no hope of getting "assignment sheets" or any fan-minded material. It is a lucky thing to get an updated map or schedule from these folks. And this was APTA's award winner for 1993. Don't get me started on that!
Anyway, the MAN artics now in service have served quite well since 1983 or so. Still holding strong even when many other MAN/AMG artics of the period (mostly in California) have fallen. They run the heaviest routes White Plains & south, and into the Bronx. The main route would be the W20 from Bedford Pk, Bronx to White Plains, via Yonkers, Cross County shopping ctre & Central Ave. Buses 600-660 are the originals; 661 is an ex-NYCTA demo that Bee Line picked up some years ago.
Joe C
Hey I got Connections at Bee-Line, thats how I'm able to maintain my roster on TransiTALK!
Yes the main route is the 20, but these new artics will also appear on the 60-61-62-20-7-40 lines! That's why they ordered more than the M*A*Ns!
Trevor
What is the transit talk web address; I'd like to view that.
I forgot about the 7. Actually I have never seen an artic on that line. What tickles me is when the actually run an artic on the 54 Creek line. Including the driver, they must carry 4 people.
Joe C
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk/NYCTransit.html
Trevor
I see Artics on 7 -40==41 etc,,all the time
The 40, 41 etc, I see too. And can somewhat understand why. But the 7?
And the 54? Why such large buses on small, lightly patronized lines?
That tickles me.
Joe C
The 7 is not light patronized ,,I live on its route ,,(off Fulton Av,nr Cross Westchester expressway)
I've seen them use an artic on the route 4 once in the early 1990's. Those McLean Ave hills were giving it a real workout.
Wayne
I have Route Descriptions for the Bee Line Routes
==if anyone needs info ,let me know
Steve
I am a Subway Conductor that often has to ride busses to get to my train route. Has anyone else noticed that many new Orion busses in the 6000 series leak every time it rains? This has happened 7 out of 10 times I rode the bus on a rainy day. Rain water dripping down into the bus from the roof area- not from the windows. Once the water gets into the electrical systems and computer systems- we've got problems! Didn't anyone from transit inspect these busses before signing off on them? All new busses should go through the bus wash with inspectors inside of them to check for this problem before they are accepted! I see the potential for many problems down the road in the future. Another grumman type of headache should many of these busses have to be pulled from service due to electrical problems. Rain water was dripping from the edge of the light and air conditioning vents areas. Was some inspectors in quality control sleeping when these busses arrived?
Well, the lower number Orions which Mother Clara Hale and Amsterdam received are not really having that problem, more or less its the Stengel-Yukon-Castleton bunch that are really causing problems, and this is because the MTA put the pressure on Orion to get the 6000 series out to them. Buses #6000-6119 rarely, that i've seen, have a real problems (i.e. leaks, suspension banging, etc.) but when I ride bus #6120-6349 I find a lot of problems. And like I stated before, because the MTA put the pressure on Orion, Orion basically rushed in buses #6120-6349 and did not put the same care into buses #6000-6119 which in book are doing great!
Trevor
Because I don't know if you have a at home e-mail, I'm writing this post because Me and Three of my TransiTALK staff members are coming to Queens Surface, MONDAY MORNING AT 11AM! It'll be a total of 4 of us! If you should see this message before monday, drop me a line at my e-mail at MTABoy2000@cs.com!
Everyone Chill out, this is only because I don't know Thurston's e-mail!
Trevor
"this is only because I don't know Thurston's e-mail!"
clark@qsbus.com
As a general rule bus depots don't do field trips, especially for large groups of buffs/customers because it can be rather disruptive to operations. Sometimes the "company" does host conferences of colleagues who are members of a bus owners/operators associations.
That said, I happy to discuss this issue off-line.
P.S. Typically I scan this site Mon - Fri for an hour or so in the AM.
Mr t__:^)
What is the average starting (yearly) salary for a bus driver?
I am not a bus driver but what they tell me it can range from many different pays. Like Academy most runs you don't get payed by the hour but by the assignment they do. The TA on the other hand from what I hear is that when they first start out with them, they get about $14 an hour, as for a longer bus driver at the TA I hear that they get about $21 an hour.
Jason
Transit's top hourly for drivers is about $21; new hires
start at 70% (about $14) for the first year, then 80% the
second, then 90% the third.
The number of hours paid per day varies by assignment,
from a minimum of 8 to a maximum of 12:59. This includes
time in the vehicle, of course, PLUS reporting/clearing
(varies by TA-OA); travel to/from reliefs; time-and-a-half for excess over 8 hours of non-swing time; and swings (all or part, depending on length). Depending on seniority and TA/OA, there may be opportunities to work an extra or a day off.
$78,000 a year God Bless America
Yeah, God Bless America. How much of that money do you think they actually bring home! At least they are working! Not sitting on their butts all day pushing papers around!
Did I actually scoop you guys??? I was coming from the Transit Museum and heading to the Jay Street Subway Stop this afternoon at 3. The A service is suspended from Jay Street to Utica, because of track work, I think. Anyway, they're running a shuttle bus service from Jay St. to Utica-- and I noticed bus 1065 on the east side of the street. To make sure it was actually in service, I checked the destination sign in front and it said To JAY STREET.
Most of the shuttle buses were regular RTS's, and I saw a couple of 6000 Orions. I would rather have seen a couple of 6000 Macks--- but that's another story.
I haven't been keeping up with artics particularly. Have articulateds been running in Brooklyn?
No, there aren't any artics running in Brooklyn - yet. The bus you saw was evidence of MABSTOA participation in a Brooklyn shuttle.
I really didn't look at where the bus was assigned. Was that unusual for a MABSTOA bus to be part of a Brooklyn Shuttle operation? Did it have a MABSTOA driver?
If it's an OA bus, it has an OA driver. So far, all of the artics are at West Side, Kingsbridge, and Gun Hill (all of which are OA depots).
As a rule, 126th Street Depot (TA) has always participated in both OA and TA-Bklyn shuttles. Apparently, OA depots have started helping with TA-Bklyn shuttles.
What's next - Staten Island operating a Queens shuttle? TA plus OA plus L.I.Bus doing a LIRR shuttle from Patchogue to Montauk?
OA buses working TA shuttle work is a management union busting effort
1. The union agreed to it.
2. The OA and Brooklyn TA are in the same union!
David
Let me get this straight: You approve of TA (126th) working an OA shuttle, but not OA working a TA shuttle? What am I missing?
As an aside, there are no more buses labeled MABSTOA, and nobody other than TA/OA employees and fans like us will ever know, or care, about a distinction which has become nothing more than a paper fantasy.
OA should not work any subway shuttles.The subways are run by the TA. Therefore only TA depots Brooklyn Queens StatenIsland should get that work. Only my opinon as TA bus operator.
Interesting you say that! The last time the A train shuttle between Utica and Jay was run in November to December of 1999 the only buses on this line were JG, UP, FP, and ENY RTS's. This is interesting that now there are OA Artics from the Bronx and Manhattan running on this same line 1 1/2 months later. Is this part of the new contract agreement?
Peace
DaShawn Pretlow
Vice President/Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
All the buses are registered to the New York City Transit Authority, 25 Jamacia Ave, Brooklyn, NY 112(36?) There is only distiction now of the status of the workers, NOT the buses. All the buses are TA buses.
-Hank
11207
The General Order called for the pouring of concrete on the A and F lines north of Jay St.There were 2 different shuttles in operation. Shuttle #1 made all stops(subway) between Utica Ave and Jay St. Shuttle #2 ran express stopping at Jay St, Hoyt St, and Utica Ave.I will have further details tomorrow. This arrangement may be the reason why an articulated bus was on the shuttle.
I saw 5270, 5272, 1034, 1037, 1027 and I'm told there were more. (5270 & 5272 are less than two months old) I was told by someone that this was done for two reasons. First, most Brookyn drivers were tkg the TO exam. Second, It was a way for the to "test" artics in Brooklyn.
Hi, all,
The January 8, 2000 episode of "The Pretender" had Mr. Parker (Miss Parker's father) hiding out in a Flxible New Look in a junkyard. The bus appeared to be a 40-foot/102 incher from the late 1970s and had sealed windows. It also had nearly white (soft) bucket seats, from what I could tell (the seats weren't shown for more than a second or two). The indicator light for the rear door appeared to be missing, but it looked like a single light had been there. The interior lighting consisted of backlighting fixtures (like NYCT's 9000s had). The exterior was seen only very briefly, not long enough for me to see a paint scheme, number, or logo.
My guess is the bus was ex-SCRTD. Anyone else?
Definitely an ex-SCRTD 7300 or 7400 series bus, with that style seating and the sealed windows.
The seats were dark brown with brown plaid inner sections on the 7300's and solid dark brown vinyl on the 7400's, but it looked as though they were recolored on this particular bus.
Does anybody have ainfo on books, websites, maps, etc related to pre-TA bus operations in Queens from the 1930s to the 1950s, and TA-consolidated operations in the 50s and 60s? Such as any publications on companies like North Shore Bus Company, stuff like that.
I'm interested in how the routes we know and love today (well most of us) came into being.
There is a bus buff's orgn. that publishes a news letter "Motor Coach Age" that has contained many fine articles of this type. Maybe a member will tell you how to join & obtain back issues. I've seen some thanks to a BusTalk member in Fla.
Mr t__:^)
Also contact Joe Saitta (a B-T) contributor. He sells a lot of photos, books etc about the old bus and railway companies.
His E-mail is JoePcc699 @ aol.com. He also uses that full name as the seller on E-bay.
Motor Bus Society (P. O. Box 251, Paramus, NJ) is the one that publishes Motor Coach Age.
They did do some articles back in the 1970's that outlined the history of the bus routes, etc., in Queens. One issue was devoted tot he TA routes, and another I remember was on North Shore Bus Company, which I believe is a predecessor of Queens Transit Inc. (today's Queens Surface Lines routes).
They also did a recent issue (within the past two years) on Triboro Coaches.
Why does the TA play that very anoying message whaen a bus starts up?The privites don't do that. I only heard them on the Orions. The message do get very anoying for the drivers I assume.
The automated announcement plays on RTS's as well. It's not that annoying to me. In fact, I kind of like it. The message is also played when someone leans against the rear-door.
You might think the drivers get annoyed at hearing that, but as a driver myself, I can tell you that we tune out a lot of the noise we hear inside a bus when we are on duty (like screaming brats, whining yentas, automated announcement systems, etc.)
Me and TransiTALK staff member Gary Chatterton was honored by riding on the only 1996 New Flyer D60 in the MTA system today on the M79. Exterior and Mechanics wise this bus was great, BUT there was a few kinks and wierd things that happened while on this bus:
1) The Stop Requested bell sounded like something out of a Nintendo game.
2) There was numerous rips and tares in the Articulated Accordion.
3) Even though the paint was nice and beautiful, the numbers were place on sloppy.
You can say that Westside tried there hardest at revive this bus after the abuse of the Bronx streets. Much Props to Westside on the effort, just make sure you catch the accordion problems before we have a bus split apart in mid route!
Trevor
Just hope that the new 5250-5509 series Artics don't go through the same fate as 1001 did.
MM2000
What runs did you got on M79? Any way most of 1996, 1997 & 1998 New Flyer Articlated will get new paint & replace numbers because #1015 & #1021 got a new paint & replace old number label into new number label.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
David, just what do you mean by this? New paint? Assuming the same paint scheme as before. New numbers? What, new stye numerals, like 5250 originally had and then were replaced by the tiny numerals?
Please eloborate on what you saw.
Thanks,
Joe C.
Yes Joe.C they did replace not tiny numbers & new paint scheme not all. Because i saw #1015 & #1021 with new paint scheme & replace by tiny numbers also no ads too. Do you know West Side Depot have paint shop???
Peace Out
David Justiniano
I guess it would make sense to clean up the buses somewhat, especially if they are being transferred to Manhattan, the "holy city". If those Manhattanites only knew the buses have been running in the Bronx for a few years, they'd have a fit!!
Would be nice to see larger numbers on the buses. We need telescopes to see them from across the street. When I saw 5250 on the Bx1, it was fresh & clean, with a large "5250" on the side (in the stripe). They changed that pretty fast.
Joe C
1009 was on run 027. Trevor will elaborate on what run 1001 was on.
MM2000
It was Run 12 that 1001 was on! Asian guy was driving, He was good! But the bus (1001) still could've used a better Quality Control level.
Trevor
The 'accordian' is purely cosmetic. There's no danger of the vehicle pulling apart, however, the rain, snow, wind, whatever will enter the bus, which isn't good at all.
-Hank
That was a joke, I know it won't pull apart!
Trevor
Yeah, but that's just the kind of thing that fed that wacky anti-artic flier I posted about. Remeber, 'The weight is concentrated in the rear, which makes them more prone to fishtailing'? Like every other rear-engined bus on the planet!
-Hank
I had the man who has the copies of the GM final delivery records on microfilm for our Museum check the FACCo order on the TD4506's which were in question a few weeks ago here. I only listed the part of the order that was in question but per the GM final delivery record it goes as follows:
Serial Property Fleet # Date
0359-0383 Fifth Avenue Coach Co (New York City NY) 2218-2242 04/46
0384 Northland Greyhound Lines (Minneapolis MN) N665 04/46
0385 Fifth Avenue Coach Co (New York City NY) 2244 04/46
0386 Northland Greyhound Lines (Minneapolis MN) N666 04/46
0387 Fifth Avenue Coach Co (New York City NY) 2246 04/46
0388 Northland Greyhound Lines (Minneapolis MN) N667 04/46
0389 Fifth Avenue Coach Co (New York City NY) 2248 04/46
0390 Northland Greyhound Lines (Minneapolis MN) N668 04/46
0391 Fifth Avenue Coach Co (New York City NY) 2250 04/46
0392 Northland Greyhound Lines (Minneapolis MN) N669 04/46
0393-0394 Fifth Avenue Coach Co (New York City NY) 2252-2253 04/46
0395 Northland Greyhound Lines (Minneapolis MN) N670 04/46
0396-0400 Fifth Avenue Coach Co (New York City NY) 2255-2259 04/46
Why the order was split up like this I don't know. I just know what was told to me. The microfilm copier was down so he had to handwrite the info out but he told me that there was no reason given for the split. I asked if he could get copies of the records above when it was fixed (as I know there will be some who will disagree with the above) and once I get them (in a week or so), I'll scan them in and post the link to the scans here.
RDChilds
Thanks for your efforts (and those of your associate).
That's the same exact info I have, as well as what OTOM has.
What threw me off was that I've seen a photo of FACCo 2245 (which should be where NGL N666 is....) and further down the list are duplicate NGL numbers.
Strange situation, I think.
Is there a possibility of some form of common ownership by chance with Northland Greyhound?
There's another coincidence on the list pertaining to NY and Northland that makes me think there is. In June of 46, shortly after the earlier order involving FACCo, Northland received some additional TD4506's mixed in with a very large order for Chicago Motor Coach, various Greyhound operators and NYCOCo.
0954-0959 Chicago Motor Coach Co (Chicago IL) 1357-1362 08/46
0960-0962 Teche Greyhound Lines (New Orleans LA) - 06/46
0963-0965 Northland Greyhound Lines (Minneapolis MN) N661-N663 06/46
0966 Eastern Canadian Greyhound Lines (Windsor ON) G1751 06/46
0967 Northland Greyhound Lines (Minneapolis MN) N664 06/46
0968-0969 Chicago Motor Coach Co (Chicago IL) 1315-1316 08/46
0970 New York City Omnibus Corp (New York City NY) 1783 07/46
0971-0978 Chicago Motor Coach Co (Chicago IL) 1317-1324 08/46
0979 New York City Omnibus Corp (New York City NY) 1784 07/46
0980-0983 Chicago Motor Coach Co (Chicago IL) 1325-1328 08/46
0984 New York City Omnibus Corp (New York City NY) 1785 07/46
0985-0989 Chicago Motor Coach Co (Chicago IL) 1329-1333 08/46
and it goes on from there. See the TD4506 production list for the complete list.
The order of TDH4008's Northland had (in 47) which had the same fleet numbers as the TD4506's is what throws the monkey wrench into this for me.
RDChilds
I was thinking that perhaps there was a common ownership myself. I know that FACCO was somehow affiliated with the Chicago transit operation, not sure of Northland Greyhound or Teche Greyhound. I do remembe there was a Motor Coach Age issue about Teche, so I'll scan through my back issues up on the shelf.
I did mention that the NGL 4506 numbers were duplicated later in the file--as R.D.C. points out, I was slightly mistaken, and it was in the TD4008 production that they were repeated.
Here's an idea: If QS is getting this CNG Order as 396-499, why don't they renumber the 700 Orions as follows:
700-390
701-391
702-392
703-393
704-394
705-395
It'd make more sense to do this rather than have 700-705 in their own seperate class.
MM2000
Well first off, the order for the CNG Orions are olny #s 396-498 (NO 499). Secondly, Those diesel Orion's, The Washington DC Metrobus rejects, maybe leaving QSC's property for Command or Triboro and even some of the CNG Orions maybe heading to Triboro. So it'd make no sense to renumber them as they maybe moving soon.
Trevor
I for one would be sad to see those 700 Orion's leave QSC. The few times they run them on their express bus runs, they have been a treat. They're smooth riding and pleasantly quick. They never seem to have a problem climbing the upper level of the Queensboro Bridge.
I'll remind everyone again the the diesel Orion V's that Green & QSC have aren't "rejects" from Washington DC. They were the last 50 on their order & at that time they had run out of funds. WMATA/Orion were looking for someone to buy them ... it was a bargin price that NYCDOT and the folks in Queens were the beneficary of.
Mr t__:^) ... note my "simlie" indicates that I'm not mad about Trevor's statement, just want to set the record streight.
Does anyone know just what a bargain DOT got in WMATA's lack of funds? I could imagine if each coach was under $200K, they we really came out ahead.
I'm not in a position to know what the purchase price was, but form what I've heard DOT was very pleased with the offer & therefore did a little bit of scrambling to come up with the cash so they could take advantage of the deal. You may recall at that time the DOT fleet had a lot of very old equip. still in daily service, e.g. QSC had borrowed a bunch of Slope Backs for Liberty Lines to increase it's fleet size to try & meet the increrased demand (extra customers) resulting from the MTA's new free transfer policy. We grabed the first batch from Liberty, some amoung our group needed to stay retired, but a few gave us good service while they were here.
Mr t__:^)
It would make even more sense to send them to Green Line since they have some of the oldest equipment in the DOT. Also, all the 1997 diesel Orions would be in one company.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
TransiTALK President/WebMaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
True Here's another possible rundown QS-GL:
700-5500
701-5545
702-5546
703-5547
704-5548
705-5549
This makes more sense.
MM2000
It would not be in the best interest of the riding public in Queens for QSC to become a CNG only operations. We like the diesels Orions well enough and wouldn't mind keeping them. These combined with the TMC RTS coaches gives us a modern fleet. Maybe it would make more since for DOT to buy some more coaches ?
DIsclaimer: Just a personal opinion here.
Mr t__:^)
I like the TMC's at QS. Hope they don't go anytime soon. They're more reliable than the CNG Orions. Most of the signs on the new CNG'S are messed up too. Here's an example:
Q104 48 ST &
QUEENS BLVD
Q104 VIA B
I know that some of the buses have been fixing this problem but I do see it often. Last night bus 490 had this problem. Another note about 490: Only the high beams worked. This is really sad for a new bus to have this type of problem and I see it occur often. I'm not blaming QS cause they do a good job maintaining their buses, I'm blaming Orion Company for making buses so cheaply! All Orions are to me are a bunch of Grumann rejects. And if they're kept being made this way, so cheap, they'll have the same fate as Grummans: EXTINCT!
Yet I do have to say that they did make improvements on the 6000 Orion series and the hybrid series. They do look fantastic. All the other Orions- simply put- cheaply made.
MM2000
It would be valuable to get input for operators who have had their Orion's a bit longer than we. Yesterday, at LI Bus, the fleet of Orion's looked to still be in good shape, however I didn't ask how much work was required on the part of Maint. to keep them that way.
Mr t__:^)
Those who are critical of Orion's buses should keep in mind that Orion has been in the market for almost two decades. Many transit operators have gone back to Orion again and again for new bus orders. Granted, I'm sure there are incentives for operators in Ontario and New York State to 'buy local', but still, if the Orions were the pieces of junk that critics claim they are, I'm sure that transit operators would get tired of maintainance headaches and stop buying sooner or later.
Cities like New York are brutal operating environments for transit buses. The RTS bus have proven itself in big cities, but the days of new RTS buses are numbered with the ongoing development of the low-floor bus. People with disabilities are very well organized politically, and it's only a matter of time before they insist that governments who pay for new buses only order low-floor buses, which will doom high-floor transit buses like the RTS. (To be fair, ask yourself: if I was in a wheelchair, would I rather board the bus on a lift at the back door or roll onto the bus at the front door like everyone else. I think most of us would choose the latter.) NovaBus has their 'LFS' low-floor bus, but the jury is still out as to how well this model will perform in a big city environment like New York.
Personally, I'm rooting for the New Flyer and Orion low-floor buses to succeed - those Nova LFS buses are just too darned ugly!
- Jim (RailBus)
Jim, Thoughtful comments, thanks for the input.
Mr t__:^)
Here is a point that i should make. On a recent trip to the Windy
city of Chicago, they were running RTS-08 series, with the wheelchari situated in the front door. I happen to like these buse(except for the
the scratches on the windows, but what can you do). I dont understand why new york never decided to buy the RTS-08 series for front
door wheelchair accesibility. I love the Orion V and the low floor
from New Flyer and i miss the Grumans from ny, but if someone can tell me why no RTS-08 series with front door wheelchair runs for MTa-let me know.
p.s. these buses in chicago have a back window, where is the air-conditioning?
From what I read on BT,Trevor mentioned inin one of his posting that the NYCTA's order of Nova Hybrids are going to be RTS-06 WFD(these from what I understand were formerly known as the RTS-08)so in a sense the next order of Nova's we get are going to be the RTS-08.
Chicago's RTS-8s have no air-conditioning. They were the last non-air-conditioned buses CTA purchased.
David
Centro in Syracuse, NY has a small group of CNG-powered RTS-08's in their fleet. These buses are equipped with air conditioning, so they have a standard RTS back end. They have the flat '08' front and the front-door lift, but the rest of the bus is identical to a standard RTS-06. They even have the same rear door configuration as NYCTA RTS buses.
- Jim (RailBus)
The CTA is planning to extensively rehab its 9-year-old fleet of RTS-08 buses during the next several months. They'll be retrofitted with air conditioning as part of the plan. I'd imagine that these coaches will be expected to run for another 8 or 9 years. In contrast , according to their latest capital budget plan, the CTA expects to retire its Flxible Metros (which were ALSO delivered in 1991) by the end of 2004 owing to serious ongoing maintenance problems. (Unlike the RTS buses, the Metros were factory-equipped with AC.)
Just thought that some of you Flxible Metro fans out there might find some solace by realizing that you're not missing much with a "Flxible-less" MTA.
Why were the busses purchased without A/C?
Some TMCs will be transferred from QS to other operators. The oldest operating DOT buses will be the 1985 GMC RTS. Yes this means NYBS will retire their Fishbowls and Jamaica their Flxibles. The only company owned buses that will still be operated will be NYBS's GMC Classics. There are still about 11 Methanol RTS waiting to be converted to diesel sitting in Command Storage yard right now.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
TransiTALK President
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
DOES THAT MEAN THE BUSES STORED AT COMMAND TO CHANGE TO DIESEL WILL BECOME COMMAND BUSES? THEY COULD BE USED TO REPLACE THE OLDER RTS BUSES ASSIGNED TO THE B-100 LINE, OR THEY COULD GO TO GREEN BUS LINES.
You shouldn't demean the Grumman rejects so quickly. I'm sure you know most of them, after some rebuilding, wound up with NJ Transit and the NJ privates, and are only now being replaced after giving many years of excellent service. In hindsight, David Gunn was probably too quick on the draw in getting rid of them. Grumman sold the bus business to Flxible, who did a pretty good job of building lots of buses for many transit operators. Strangely, it was only when they finally landed a NYC TA order for 50 buses that Flexible's bus business went belly-up.
Wait a second... Who built the Flxibles before the TA ordered them? I was under the impression that Grumman bought Flxible, then sold them to another company (which took the name Flxible Bus Co) after the episode with the NYCTA.
-Hank
General Automotive bought Flxible from Grumman, circa 1982.
David
More quirky QS Orion destination readings:
Q65A 164 ST (centered)
Q65A via J (right-justified)
Q65A KISSENA (centered)
Q65A via J (right-justified)
Certainly QS can afford to reprogam them, since DOT would
reimburse and add the 6% guaranteed profit margin).
How about this one with LI Bus-
N21 GLEN CLOVE
Somebody put an extra L in Cove!
I would love for the DOT to buy some coach buses. But the closest thing to a coach bus they will probably buy will be the Orion V without a back door (the ones NYBS are testing now). Command is supposed to get ten more CNG Orions but all the new arrivals so far have gone to QS. Lets keep our fingers crossed for some MCI coaches.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
TransiTALK President
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
have you kept up to date on the bus roster for nybs? the orions were removed from service. do not know why though
Yes TransiTALK has kept up to date on NYBS. They were removed because NYBS takes passenger feed back seriously. Two known complaints I was told about from a NYBS Official were the seats were too small and the passengers were lacking privacy due to the fact that the windows were not tinted. From a drivers standpoint, two drivers I spoke to enjoyed driving the Orion. Personally, I rode one and I enjoyed the ride. Expect them to return with some alterations.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
TransiTALK President
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
The NYBS Orions were very fast, I had the pleasure of making that trip with Kevin, and its a very good bus except for the stuff that my president, Kevin, noted in his last posting. These buses will probably return with tinted windows and wider seats. Otherwise the Orions that NYBS have on their property are the best i've riden in the entire city.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK CEO & Founder
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
Privacy????? You're on a bus with 49 other people, for gosh sake! What the hell are they complaining about?
-Hank
With the low cut seats the driver can see the passangers better. So i would imagine they cannot get away with eating on the bus. Like i said before I actually enjoyed riding bus 1711. The NYBS passengers should be happy their buses came with reading lights and luggage racks.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
TransiTALK President/WebMaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
Join TrAnSiTiNfO's webring!!! 5 sites have already joined. This webring is open to anyone who has a site about Transit. To join click Here!!!!!
Sincerely,
Clark Palicka
TrAnSiTiNfO
Stop posting announcements about your STUPID, REDUNDANT WEBRING!!!
Just saw 4742 this morning on the X28 on Madison Avenue near 42nd Street. I was able to see inside and the seats looked like the ones on the 7000's express buses(which i was on #7045 on the X29 today). Is there any plans to do the rest of the 4740's and make them express? If so, these can replace the 1700's and 1800's at UP(which by the way, if you ever see #1834,, the windows are totally scratched up, yet why didnt they redo the winodws on these?)
I wish they would fix the entire interior of 1834. It is a better bus to drive than the 38xx and 48xx series coaches and even 70xx series remanufactured coaches. I try getting this bus every day but it is already gone (a lot of times on Local Routes which explains why the interior looks bad). With the 4800's coming in from Staten Island, I certainly hope this bus finally does not hit the scrap yard - It's worth saving!
It should be saved for the simple fact that it has Bronx style numbers in the back.
so u guys are getting the 4800's?
I wish they would fix the entire interior of 1834. It is a better bus to drive than the 38xx and 48xx series coaches and even 70xx series remanufactured coaches. I try getting this bus every day on the express but it is already gone (a lot of times on Local Routes which explains why the interior looks bad). With the 4800's coming in from Staten Island, I certainly hope this bus finally does not hit the scrap yard - It's worth saving!
It seems only about 1/4 of the buses on the M79 and M86 are articulated. Will both routes eventually be all articulated?
Are they working out? There are some tough turns on both routes. Are drivers coping?
Originally the M15 was supposed to be the first Manhattan route to get artics. Why were they not put on M15, the north-south route that's farthest from a subway line. On the M15, you don't get many turns or narrow streets till you get to Chinatown and the Lower East Side.
The M79 will be completely articulated on Sunday. The M15 will be one of the first routes to be articulated that runs north-south. The M102 will be one of the first as well.
Today i had added 27 bus pictures & check out the NYCTransiTrans's page. Someone had post it last month that the bus that still parked in from of Easten Parkway/Broaway station & that bus is for NYPD. I have the picture & it on GMC's Page.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Does anyone remember the old Twin Coaches that ran mostly out of Ulmer Park in the Later 40s early 50s. I remember there were 2 sizes 41 pax and 44 pax. Does anyone have the roster numbers of those busses
My recollection is that the bus numbers were in the 1000 series. Unfortunately, that's about all I remember about them, other than a few of them had the green top-paint scheme (like the Bingham Macks), while most of them had the then-standard silver and green scheme.
I seem to remember them on the B-8 as I went to St. Jerome's which was at Newkirk & Nostrand. They wee replaced by the 6000 series Macks in 1956 as I remember, that was about my second year in school!
They operated out of Ulmer Park on the B3-4-5-6-8-9-34-37 and I fotgot the number of the 7th Ave Bus. Ulmer Pk also had some older Macks too that were brought in from Staten Island, As I stated they had 2 sizes 41 pax and 44 pax The 6000 Macks replaced them, I think they were the most short lived busses the TA ever had 1948-56
I remember seeing the Twins on Fulton Street in downtown Brooklyn in the early 50s. Then they vanished suddenly, I guess, when the new Macks came in 56 (by which time I was living in Queens). Twins seemed to be a mainstay of the CTA (Chicago) well into the 70s, running alongside new look GMs and Flxibles. Why were they so shortlived in NYC?
twins also survived in atlantic city new jersey till the late 1960s.
LA had a few into the late 50s early 60s, but to tell you the truth, they were junk.
Does anyone have a roster list of all the flexible New Look Busses that ran in NYC, Those on the NYCTA amd Private Companies. Include the 870s and Later. (1959-198?)
Here's what I came up with:
FT-35-D 50342 - Demo to Surface Transportation Corp 6000 ?/56
F2D6V401-1 51900-51914 - Triboro Coach Co 801-815 ?/64
F2D6V401-1 51900-51914 - Triboro Coach Co 801-815 ?/64
F2D6V401-1 51990-51999 - Triboro Coach Co 820-829 ?/64
F2D6V401 52087-52251 - NYC Transit Authority 5001-5165 ?/64
F2D6V401-1 52617-52806 - NYC Transit Authority 5601-5790 ?/66
111CC-D5-1 54068-54167 - NYC Transit Authority 4009-4099 12/69-01/70
111CC-D5-1 54168-54217 - NYC Transit Authority 4153-4202 12/69-01/70
111CC-D5-1 54218-54270 - NYC Transit Authority 4100-4152 12/69-01/70
111CC-D5-1 54271-54398 - MaBSTOA 4600-4727 12/69-01/70
111CC-D5-1 54680-54694 - Triboro Coach Co 830-844 ?/70
111CC-D5-1 54877-54891 - Triboro Coach Co 845-859 ?/71
111CC-D5-1 54992-55001 - Green Bus Lines Inc 201-210 ?/71
111CC-D5-1 55010-55024 - Jamaica Buses Inc 201-215 ?/71
111CC-D05-1 56052-56061 - Green Bus Lines Inc 211-220 ?/72
111CC-D05-1 56171-56180 - Triboro Coach Co 860-869 ?/72
111CC-D05-1 56181-56185 - Jamaica Buses Inc 216-220 ?/72
53102-6-1 57933-58138 - NYC Transit Authority 7000-7204 ?/73-?/74
53102-6-1 58138-58199 - MaBSTOA 7300-7361 ?/74
53102-6-1 60640-60799 - NYC Transit Authority 7500-7659 ?/75
53102-6-1 60800-61037 - MaBSTOA 7700-7937 ?/75
53102-6-1 63095-63100 - NYCTA 9000-9002,9055-9057 ?/77
53102-6-1 63101-63105 - NYCTA 9070-9072,9085,9086 ?/77
53102-6-1 63106-63109 - NYCTA 9095,9096,9105,9106 ?/77
53102-6-1 63110-63112 - NYCTA 9115-9117 ?/77
53102-6-1 63113-63118 - MaBSTOA 9165,9185-9189 ?/77
53102-6-1 63119-63129 - MaBSTOA 9205-9210,9225-9229 ?/77
53102-6-1 63130-63134 - MaBSTOA 9245-9247,9260,9261 ?/77
53102-6-1 63135-63140 - MaBSTOA 9270-9272,9285-9287 ?/77
53102-6-1 63141-63142 - MaBSTOA 9300,9301 ?/77
53102-6-1 63143-63147 - NYCTA 9003-9005,9058,9059 ?/77
53102-6-1 63148-63153 - NYCTA 9073-9076,9087,9088 ?/77
53102-6-1 63154-63158 - NYCTA 9097-9099,9107,9108 ?/77
53102-6-1 63159-63161 - NYCTA 9118-9120 ?/77
53102-6-1 63162-63172 - MaBSTOA 9166-9171,9190-9194 ?/77
53102-6-1 63173-63181 - MaBSTOA 9211-9215,9230-9233 ?/77
53102-6-1 63182-63186 - MaBSTOA 9248-9250,9262,9263 ?/77
53102-6-1 63187-63193 - MaBSTOA 9273-9275,9288-9291 ?/77
53102-6-1 63194-63196 - MaBSTOA 9302-9304 ?/77
53102-6-1 63197-63201 - NYCTA 9006-9008,9060,9061 ?/77
53102-6-1 63202-63208 - NYCTA 9077-9080,9089-9091 ?/77
53102-6-1 63209-63212 - NYCTA 9100,9101,9109,9110 ?/77
53102-6-1 63213-63215 - NYCTA 9121-9123 ?/77
53102-6-1 63216-63227 - MaBSTOA 9172-9178,9195-9199 ?/77
53102-6-1 63228-63236 - MaBSTOA 9216-9220,9234-9237 ?/77
53102-6-1 63237-63241 - MaBSTOA 9251-9253,9264,9265 ?/77
53102-6-1 63242-63247 - MaBSTOA 9276-9278,9292-9294 ?/77
53102-6-1 63248-63250 - MaBSTOA 9305-9307 ?/77
53102-6-1 63251-63257 - NYCTA 9009-9011,9062-9065 ?/77
53102-6-1 63258-63264 - NYCTA 9081-9084,9092-9094 ?/77
53102-6-1 63265-63269 - NYCTA 9102-9104,9111,9112 ?/77
53102-6-1 63270-63272 - NYCTA 9124-9126 ?/77
53102-6-1 63273-63283 - MaBSTOA 9179-9184,9200-9204 ?/77
53102-6-1 63284-63290 - MaBSTOA 9221-9224,9238-9240 ?/77
53102-6-1 63291-63295 - MaBSTOA 9254-9256,9266,9267 ?/77
53102-6-1 63296-63300 - MaBSTOA 9279-9281,9295,9296 ?/77
53102-6-1 63301-63302 - MaBSTOA 9308,9309 ?/77
53102-6-1 63303-63309 - NYCTA 9012-9014,9066-9069 ?/77
53102-6-1 63310-63314 - NYCTA 9113,9114,9127-9129 ?/77
53102-6-1 63315-63321 - MaBSTOA 9241-9244,9257-9259 ?/77
53102-6-1 63322-63326 - MaBSTOA 9268,9269,9282-9284 ?/77
53102-6-1 63327-63329 - MaBSTOA 9297-9299 ?/77
53102-6-1 63330-63335 - NYCTA 9027-9029,9015-9017 ?/77
53102-6-1 63336-63342 - NYCTA 9030-9032,9040-9043 ?/77
53102-6-1 63343-63348 - NYCTA 9018-9020,9033-9035 ?/77
53102-6-1 63349-63354 - NYCTA 9044-9046,9021-9023 ?/77
53102-6-1 63355-63360 - NYCTA 9036,9037,9047-9050 ?/77
53102-6-1 63361-63365 - NYCTA 9024-9026,9038,9039 ?/77
53102-6-1 63366-63394 7 NYCTA 9051-9054,9130-9154 ?/77
53102-8-1 63395-63399 - MaBSTOA 9160,9164,9161-9163 ?/77
53102-8-1 63400-63404 - NYCTA 9155,9157-9159,9156 ?/77
I'm not sure if these are NYC but I'll post them anyway:
FD6V-401-7-UL-AC 35014 - Jamaica Buses Inc/Mapleton Bus Co 111 ?
FD6V-401-7-UL-AC 35018-35020 - Jamaica Buses Inc/Mapleton Bus Co 112-114 ?
FD6V-401-7-UL-AC 35021 - Bee Line Inc 700 ?
FD6V-401-7-UL-AC 35023 - Mount Carmel Bus Lines (Bronx NY) ? ?
53096-8-1 63759-63811 - Metro Suburban Bus Authority 850-900 ?/78
You can look at the Ohio Museum of Transportation's site for the Flxible new look lists. These are for all new looks however and not just the New York units. They've just been put up recently and I'm still sorting out some details on them.
RDChilds
That is terrific. Thanks for that info.
But, guys, we know better. There is no "e" before the "x" in Flxible.
(Like adding a "c" in AmtraCk). Those boners are for the general public and the media.
Joe C
Well, I was gonna get around to posting the Flxible list, but R.D.C. saved me a lot of trouble!! Thanks!!
Jamaica buses would be in NYC (Mapleton might have been a legal ownership name). Mount Carmel Buses was a suburban operator, they ran out of the bus terminal on the west side of Jerome Ave around 170th (Joe??) up to Westchester & Putnam Counties. I think they also had some old Silversides, as our family used to go up to Putnam County a lot and that seems to be what we rode in.
Bee Line was the transit operator in Rockville Centre (Nassau County; it was absorbed into MSBA in 1973 or so.
Hey Steve, now that is a real memory, the 170th/Jerome AVe bus terminal. Right about Mt Carmel. Remember the bus terminal @ 168th & B'way. Can still see Whites pulling away.
Joe
The following Flxibles must be added to the New York City Flxible list...
FD6V-35-1-1 75003-75007 - Ave. B & East Broadway Transit #s 601-605
After checking the Ohio Museum of Transportion's list, I noticed that these buses are NOT listed!
Therefore, their lists are not complete.
In 1961 Fifth Avenue Coach had as a demo Flxible F2D6V-401-1 and numbered 100. It was painted in CTA colors and had those strange CTA windows. It was part of the first Flxible order for Chicago.
Also, NYCTA had a Flxible numbered 200 (during July 1964) as a demo. This particular bus had an emergency door, something not seeing in MaBSTOA/NYCTA "New Looks" since the Fifth Avenue TDH 5301's!
Those Flxibles weren’t the only New Look buses had by Avenue B & East Broadway that weren’t on any production lists seen in OMOT’s web site; some 1959-62 GM New Looks which were also part of the AB&EB fleet (around the 500 series by their fleet) likewise were not accounted for.
Give me serials and I'll have the GM microfilm verified for the GM's.
RDChilds
Thank you for the list of the Flexibles, Do you have the numbers of the Grumman Flexibles, and later Flexi(870s) Also is there a list of all the RTS and other busses that come up to date. I am almost finished compiling my NYC All Time Post WWII Roster. Too bad nobody has the numbers for the Twin Coaches. I also do remember some later Old Look GMCs from the late 40s early 50s that ran in Queens that were later models then the 4506s and 07s. Once again Thank you
The Twin Coaches were in the 1000 series, but I don't remember the exact numbers or amount of buses. Ditto for the old GM old-looks in Queens, which were in the 2000 series.
Some of the older GMC 2000s were 4506 And 4507s but I remember there were high numbers and new models of the old look GMCs in Queens that were not the 4000s(both models)
Around 1957, the 7000 series old-looks made their debut, first in Manhattan (126 Street), but then in Flushing and Jamaica. The higher numbers in the 7000 series remained in Queens until the 2000 series new-looks came along around 1962.
The GM 1959-62 New Look models used by Avenue B & East Broadway were numbered in the range from 508 to 514 – but as someone else noted in one of these threads, they may have been second-hand.
Some of the 40-foot GM's that Ave. B & East Broadway got, as I understand, came second-hand. So, they wouldn't show on the GM production lists at OMOT, except listed for their original owner.
Likewise for that batch of Flxibles with the 75000 series serial numbers. Those were the "oddball" Flxibles, such as a bunch of ten that also went to Cleveland; three to Hawaii, a couple to private owners, and 56 units to SCRTD in Los Angeles (as well as four to Pomona, CA, which eventually joined the SCRTD fleet).
The 75000 series units were built at Evergreen, Alabama -- not at Loudonville. They came out of Evergreen from 1963 to 1966.
There were also 16 "76000" series units, ver similar to the big bunch for SCRTD and Pomona, that went to San Bernardino, CA -- however, these wre built in Loudonville in 1967.
Steve, thanks.
We only have the Loudonville records, not the Evergreen records. We are missing from the Loudonville records the 76000 serials though (didn't know about them till you mentioned them). I was wondering why we couldn't locate the 1200 series for CTS but I was told that they were classed as Flxettes by CTS and built in Evergreen so that explained that.
Just to note, the Evergreen units only had two headlights and not quad headlamps as the Loudonville units had from what I've seen and been told about.
I did seem to think the AB&EB GM units in question may have been second hand. I'll take your response as a yes to that.
I'll make a notation regarding the Evergreen Flxibles and not having info available for them on the site so that this question can be put to rest.
RDChilds
Will send you the Evergreen production (as I have it) via e-mail.
Yes, the large single headlights seemed to be the "order of the day" on Evergreen production. I rode manyof the SCRTD and San Bernardino buses; I also worked for a tour/charter company in Los Angeles that somehow wound up with one of the ex-Cleveland buses; it had an odd window arrangement, and single headlamps.
In regards to the items you indicate we are missing:
FD6V-35-1-1 75003-75007 - Ave. B & East Broadway Transit #s 601-605
I'm somewhat confused as to this as the serial numbers you list are out of the range for the Flxible new looks. They ended at serial 64097 in 1978 (for the new looks) and you indicate serials for a model built in the early 60's with a serial much higher than those built in 78 (Flxible numbered consecutively from 1953-1978 regardless of model with one exception which were the FD6V-401-7-UL suburbans which were in the 35000 range).
Can you tell me what year these were built? There are a few small groups that show indicated as not built (21, 10 and 1 number gap in the years the FD's were built) and I was wondering if maybe some of them actually were made but mis-labled on the listing we were given.
RDChilds
Got myself & a few colleagues invited to LI Bus yesterday (sorry Dave & Trevor it was a "official" trip so I didn't bring a camera).
We went to exchange farebox experiences, but before we setteled down to that topic our host gave us a 50 cent tour of the Mitchel Field/Garden City depot.
-Reception has been modified as if it was the FBI or Fort Knox (Receptionist behind a blast door) seemed a little over kill.
- LI Bus formed 1973 from a group of Nassau County "privates"
- Depot since 1988 has shops & bays to store 150 or so buses in 26 lanes (maybe 5 coaches per lane)
- CNG, they have a high speed station with four lanes & pumps, PLUS they kept their old/orig. station that's on the other side of the yard as a fall back (SMART THINKING)
- Buses arrive at Probe station (three lanes), two proceed to bus wash area (incl. vacuum cleaning similar to QSC), one goes right to parking.
- Rockville Centre has just come online with CNG ( We were told 10 Orions were transfered their)
- Coaches, LI Bus continues to have a variety: Orion V diesel & CNG, Orion II CNG, Thomas, Phantom, Ford (van w/big box on the back), & Int'l (didn't see any of these).
- Yard, they have one in back of building so from the street it's hard to tell it's a bus depot. I'm saying this so my BusTalk friends won't get disapointed when they try to take pictures near LI Bus.
It was a very productive day, so I would like to publically thanks our host for putting up with us for 1/2 a day (he sometimes reads BusTalk posts).
Mr t__:^)
Did you see any Flexibles left there? Also, bus 202 should be sitting there cause it was involved in a fire not too long ago. TransiTalk was gonna go there 1 day to check out the depot and since we can't get around there to take pics, we may go to 1 spot in particular to get LI Bus pics. Thurston, I Thank you for the warning in advance.
MM2000
[Did you see any Flexibles left there?] ... not a one, but I forgot to ask, sorry.
[Also, bus 202 ...] we didn't go into the yard, just a quick walk through the building, i.e. only active buses in garage & didn't see any bus under maint. that looked like it was wacked or in a fire.
(showing up to take photos) [Thank you for the warning in advance.]
Most depots & subway yards aren't "open to the public", that's why it's such a treat when you can get inside (I talked our host into a 50 cent tour, because initially we were going to go right to his shop. Since I know he's proud of his company it didn't take much arm twisting to let us has a quick tour. I think the others from NY Bus & Liberty also enjoyed it.)
Mr t__:^)
LI Bus also has a few former NYCTA/OA GMC RTS's as well. I saw 4375 and 4537 parked off the street on Saturday. 4375 was TA 1375 & 4537 was 1537.
Could very well be ... as I said we didn't get into the back lot & our host only had a general knowledge of their fleet because it's not his area. I was happy for what we were allowed to see & didn't push to see more ... the visit did have another purpose after all.
Mr t__:^)
Queens Surface is accepting applications for new bus operators. Our minimum requirements include CDL (B/P endorsements prefered), five year commercial driving experience, clean MVR, ability to pass 19(a) physical, and good work experience. We will be hiring 30 to 40 people. There is no written test. Our training program lasts one month. If you or someone you know are interested in applying, please call 718/445-3100 x905 for instructions.
This message may be forwarded to other lists.
As of 1/16/00, where will the M10/M20 be operating out of? If there is a split route, how many runs will be from each location?
DOT Privates, LI Bus and PATH Rosters have been updated on TransiTALK. Check it out at TransiTALK.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Founder & CEO
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
Does anyone know anything about a "new" toy bus in the market?
It is a GMC "New Look" (I hate the term fishbowl! - besides, New look was the official GM terminology!) in the 1/64 scale, about 6 inches long. It is painted white with NYC MTA blue stripe and a destination sign reading: CENTRAL STATION.
It has a pull back friction motor.
Manufacturer??
(someone is offering it for auction on e-bay. Item # 230351782)
You can buy that at many souvenire or gift outlets in the city; no more than $5.00 should be right. FYI, it comes in 3 versions, two of which have greyhound-like dogs on the side. Magnificent toy! Made by Sunnyside of China.
Joe C
I OWN ABOUT 14 OF THOSE AND THEY LOOK REAL NICE. THEY ALSO HAD GMc
rts ON SALE FOR AWAHILE. iM WAITING FOR THEM TO COME OU T WITH GRUMAN 870 OR ORION. IF YOU HAPPEN TO SEE THEM OR KNOW APLACE TO BUY THEM,PLEASE LET ME KNOW CAUSE ID BUY THEM IN BULK.
Thanks for the info. Not living in New York City was not aware they were available as souvenirs.
The asking price on ebay was $20.00!!
I saw one such bus at one time at the Transit Museum (I think it was the Suburban variation of the New Look). Unfortunately, it was rigged up in the three-piece rear window arrangement on the tail end instead of the split (four-piece) rear windows . . . but I guess that could’ve been fixed by painting a small stripe down the middle. . . .
Simple solution if you want a "split" rear window:
Go to a art/graphics store, and get some 2-point matte black tape made by "Geotape". If you do a Corgi (1/50 scale) bus, use the 4-point tape. I've done this on quite a few custom repaintings on Corgi's, and everyone is quite satisfied.
There is a new book out dealing with the GM New Look. Its called "The General Motors New Look Bus" and is a black & white photo archive.
Its is authored by my good friend John McKane. HAs 128 pages, 164 fotos. Sells for $29.95 and can be gotten at many hobby/ book stores or thru publisher Iconografix (800)289-3504.
Joe C
I believe Steve Hoskins mentioned this awhile back - think he may have contributed to it. I bought it - haven't had a chance to read it, but it looks worthwhile from thumbing through it and looking at the pictures.
While I didn't "contribute" to it, I did assist John with getting the manuscript onto the computer as at the time, John didn't have access to a computer. I just talked with John Tuesday night, and he's doing really well!
Does the book cover EACH Model present on the East Coast ,,I heard it was heavy into West Coast ,,only
Steve
When i look up Glenn's Bus Roster when he update every week & i look up list of Storage Yard. I found one list had say Unknown Storage Yard & almost half of buses that came from diffirent Storage Yard into Unknown Storage Yard. Why they put Unknown Storage Yard? Because MTA doesn't want Bus Buffs to know where is the Storage Yard? or didn't want Bus Buffs to take some pictures? I don't know what it is. I need some answer.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Glenn Rowe puts them in unknown storage because he doesn't know where they are. It has nothing to do with the TA. Usually it is not until he sees my roster, or someone here on BT notifies him the buses will stay there.
Has anyone seen the speedometer on 8462 recently? It's amazingly weird!
Form of needle movement as bus accelarates:
0-5 normally, then jumps to 15, 15-25 normal, then from 25-40 fast, then jumps at the speed of light BACK down to 25, then goes up normally. And this happens while slowing down, too!
Sticky speedometer cable.....
Or maybe dirt on the contacts somewhere if it was an electronic job.
It could also be a bad sender unit or the speedometer itself. I've seen all 4 situations over the years.
I remember when a working speedometer was a luxury in a lot of transit systems (years ago, some used to order buses without them as they were so undependable).
RDChilds
Thanks to both of ya.
I took an overdue trip to Queens on my day-off today and thought I'd make a few brief observations. (1) The new Queens Surface transit Orion CNG's (#418) are very nice. The seats are comfortable with much knee-room; it appeared that the QS bus had one less row of seats than the LI Bus Orions I was on later. (2) Although most of the buses I saw on the Q25/34 and Q65 were RTS's, I did spot a few 400's on the Q25/34. (3) I rode the Q44 Limited from Flushing to Jamaica. While there may be too many Limited stops, the trip on the Limited did seem a little faster than the local trips I remember. The bus I was on (#544) was cleaner than I expected, based on the recent thread here. In observing the buses coming in the other direction, to my distant eye they looked in decent shape on the outside for the most part, and, other than one former Yukon bus, the windows were not that scratched up (at least compared to the subway). (4) I rode on a few LI Bus buses, and they seemed to be in quite decent shape. The automatic stop announcements and signs in the CNG's are very nice. (5) The TA buses from Jamaica Depot that I observed all looked in excellent shape on the outside.
Can anyone help me out with this area,--each route needed in Detail
Thanks
Steve
I note on the Q25/34 signs that after the first sign showing the destination, when it flips to the second sign where i think it should say "VIA PARSONS" it says " VIA PA", with VIA being halfway across the sign.
I'm sure QSC/Thurston knows about it.
Now lets not start this defective sign thread again.
Eye find this site also provides me a barometer of how NYC transit (TA , privates, NJ Transit, etc.) are doing. It also is a teaching tool for me ... not that a lot of the stuff I've learned has anything to do with my job, but I've always been inquisitive about how & why things work. Many times I'll pass on to others here what seems to be something I think they might be interested in.
In that regard I was talking to a friend in maint. yesterday and have a trivia question for you: How many different shades of WHITE paint has Orion been useing on it's recent shipments to NYC ?
(because it's more then one our maint. shop has to pay attention to it if we want the bus to look nice if we need to do a little touch up)
Mr t__:^)
im still waiting for the day QS decides to do Wrap aRound Advertisingo
on the Orion Buses. I will hold avaible pics in my camera to see
this.
I just looked at the bus roster and it says that #5205-#5229 are going
from Kingsbridge to Ulmer Park. Is this true? And what buses are they
replacing to get these, or is this just added buses?
I can't understand it. 5246 & 5249 have been spotted in Bklyn. Please leave the Kingsbridge buses alone. Why take THESE buses away? Take some of the older stuff if they have to. How about some low-floors to replace 'em?
Joe C
5230-5249 are already in JG...and 5205-5229 will follow to UP. At GH, 5075-5124 are bound for FLA. This will happen once all the artics are in.
Did I misunderstand? I thought Gleason was to be an all low-floor CNG depot. What happened?
Joe C
JG is to be a low floor depot. but they ordered 190 buses and they all
are not here yet. to replace the older buses they lost, they got
the 5200's from kingsbridge. Kingsbridge got some of JG 4600's
series. I assume that once Kingsbridge recieves the full order
of the artics they will replace the 4600's. I think the 5200's
that are at JG are here to stay, even when the low floor buses
arrive. Besides, #8398 and #8399 are at JG, and they are RTS
buses.
JG is NOT going to be a 100% low floor depot. They ordered 190 LFCNG's and they currently have over 340 buses assigned there. So lets do the math--190 LF's + 31 Orions + 3 RTS = 224 CNG buses. They still need about 120-125 standard diesel buses.
if you look at the roster from jg, a few of the rts are from different depots, and not ALL of them are staying. those assigned to JG that come from WEstside and Flatbush are only there temporarly until the low floor buses arrive.
just ot of curiousity, if JG lost the B68 and returned it to UP, how many buses would it need and why doesnt UP get the B68 back? They just lost the B82 come 1/16. I know they get the X27 back but let them get the b68 back too.
I thought JG was going to be an all-CNG depot?
Oh please,please let it be true.UP is starving for new buses and I,m
going on the road next pick.
I believe that 5075-5124 should go to HP not to FLA. I think HP should replace their 4100s with these buses. I wouldn't want to see buses 5075-5124 running around in Brooklyn. But yet here's an even better swap:
trade 4900-4944 at QV-FLA for 5075-5124 FLA-QV
I would rather see QV get 5075-5124 because there are more open strips on the QV routes than in Brooklyn. I just don't think Brooklyn deserves any good equipment. Queens need them more. And from what I heard, Queens will not get any more NEW buses for a while.
Why does Brooklyn always get the new stuff?
MM2000
I for one, WANT Flatbush to get these buses. Flatbush have the three most busiest routes in the borough. Im still waiting to see if we get the artics. It do not look like it is going to happen. Looks like BX, Manh, and SI gets the new stuff. The depots in Bklyn get the Bx and Manhattan hand me downs. (Even though there are a few original buses here.....)
B46M Limited representin Flatbush Depot to the fullest....
AMEN!!! Brooklyn has a lot more people and a lot more busses than all those other silly boroughs.
The only thing silly is your name!!!!!!!!!!!
Because your beloved Bklyn may have more people, and perhaps even more buses, doesn't amount to a hill of beans and doesn't justify new buses. Consider that besides areas of Queens, Broken-lyn has the highest usage of those stupid vans!! Where is the logic here folks. We now have unlimited use Metrocards, cards in all $$ denominations, yet those deadbrains across the river insist on using vans. Do they need new buses? Hardly. Ask them why they use vans; they'll say bus service sucks. Sure, give these jerks more new buses. Many wouldn't know a new bus from an old one anyway.
Joe C
very harsh respone. As a rider on Ulmer Park routes, their buses
are the oldest in the fleet. the 3000's series are scratched beyond belief and they are falling apart. The routes that this depot serves do not get vans nor cabs competing with it, but it would be nice for the depot to get new buses. they do need it. they get new buses for express buses, let them ge the 5200's as well(which i know they are getting, but havent seen them runnig yet).
Ulmer Park routes:
B1,B3,B4,B6,B36,B64,B74,X25,X27,X28,X29
Simon, you sound like a reasonable person. The response was hash, true, because someone said the other boroughs were silly and did not need the new buses. I have ALWAYS beena proponent of sahring the wealth. Now, I do agree with policy of keeping depots segregated by types for economical and maintenance reasons, I'd love for everyone to have a bit of everything, like the "old" days".
Each boro has its share of idiots that refuse to stop taking vans and cabs; we have cabs up the kazoo in the Bronx, too. But there are plenty of people that wouldn't be caught dead in a van. And with the Metrocard why spend a fortune on cabfare? You think the TA doesn't notice these things? They sure DO see it. So, when politicos fight for new buses, the TA can simply point to these instances.
And, yes, the Bronx, does get its share of hand-me-down buses. Come up & see. I see Brooklyn every day; I work in Metotech.
Joe C
Let's not forget the bus operators!!I drove 3691 last night on the
B4,till 3:00 am.We should be able to put better buses out at night.
ANDY?UP
JG does. I took #X29 this morning(run #004-Number 9311) and i saw a B68 New Flyer Low Floor #829 run 001 heading the other way.
Andy, how can u guys pick new buses if you have so few new buses to choose from?
I don't get to pick my bus.My bus is already on the road from the
morning.I make a relief at 6:33 in the evening and that's my bus
until 3:08am.
ANDY?UP
if you pick in the morning, like a hawk trip or those that start later, like 5am or so, do you have a choice of buses or you get what you get? I was told by a driver at UP that on express buses, you get whats at the front of the line. A triboro Coach driver gets the same bus each day. How do u choose who gets what?
The buses are parked every night in no set order(except for the
express buses being parked by themselves).All buses are given out
in the order in which they are parked the night before,which is
randomly.
ANDY
"The buses are parked every night in no set order(except for the
express buses being parked by themselves).All buses are given out
in the order in which they are parked the night before,which is
randomly."
I was told by one hudson driver that the buses are given out in orger of newness. They give out the 51XX's in the middle of the night, then go with the 94-95-96XXs, then the 84/85, then the 82, then the 41.
As far as how the express coaches are given out here at Ulmer Park, it is usually up to how the dispatcher wants to. Some dispatchers give out all the new (92xx & 93xx) coaches first, then give out the old coaches (7038-7049, 48xx, 38xx, 18xx). When this happens, some guys show up 1/2 early just to get a new bus!
Other dispatchers will assign the new busses to runs that have to make 2 or more trips into the city. The older busses will go to the drivers making short (downtown) trips or just one trip in.
About 125 coaches are needed each morning for the x27, x28, x29 and there are only 88 new coaches on the best day. (Not counting those being inspected, fixed, painted, ect.)
Of course, if you have the right connections, you'll usually get a new bus too!
As far as how the express coaches are given out here at Ulmer Park, it is usually up to how the dispatcher wants to. Some dispatchers give out all the new (92xx & 93xx) coaches first, then give out the old coaches (7038-7049, 48xx, 38xx, 18xx). When this happens, some guys show up 1/2 early just to get a new bus!
Other dispatchers will assign the new busses to runs that have to make 2 or more trips into the city. The older busses will go to the drivers making short (downtown) trips or just one trip in.
Hmmm... when I used to take the X25, we usually got a 92XX, but occasinally a 39XX or a 18XX. Hmm.
If I was a driver, I would want a 4100 regardless of what time I started.
If I was a driver, I would want a 4100 regardless of what time I started.
Why do so many people like the old buses?
It looks like you have a high paying run.
9 hours 4 minutes
not considered a big run by si standards. with 12 years on job one can easily pick 12 hour runs.
Hey, if ya really want a high paying run, M9 run 1. ELEVEN HOURS, either 14 or 41 minutes. Almost the max.
Maximum pay is 12 hours 59 minutes.
David
oohhhh.
Max paying Express Run at UP: 11 Hours and 31 Minutes on the x28
Simon, you sound like a reasonable person. The response was hash, true, because someone said the other boroughs were silly and did not need the new buses. I have ALWAYS been a proponent of sahring the wealth. Now, I do agree with policy of keeping depots segregated by types for economical and maintenance reasons, I'd love for everyone to have a bit of everything, like the "old" days".
Each boro has its share of idiots that refuse to stop taking vans and cabs; we have cabs up the kazoo in the Bronx, too. But there are plenty of people that wouldn't be caught dead in a van. And with the Metrocard why spend a fortune on cabfare? You think the TA doesn't notice these things? They sure DO see it. So, when politicos fight for new buses, the TA can simply point to these instances.
And, yes, the Bronx, does get its share of hand-me-down buses. Come up & see. I see Brooklyn every day; I work in Metotech.
Joe C
being a bus fan for many years(and currently a collector of ho scale buses) i nuderstand how choices of buses go.
I used to travel between bklyn and Staten Island to go to college and saw the buses the Yukon had(the 1200's,1600's) and how badly scratched they were and wondering when were they getting new buses. Imagine my surprise them getting new Orions after my graduation.
Bronx always gets old buses, because of the newghborhoods they go through(maybe thats why the 5000's are moving to JG and UP).
Queens does get new buses as does Brooklyn. The reason i was told why Ulmer Park doesnt get new buses for local routes is because there was a pay problem(supposedly paying drivers to test the new buses), yet i always believed that each RTS or NoVA BUS was the same.
I do hope each depot gets new buses. At the moment, Ulmer park has a lot of old buses(local and express), heres hoping new local buses come soon.
One thing I wish The Bronx had is Express buses too. I always liked the idea of having two types of fleets in a depost. Makes things very interesting. Many lines in the Bronx are not getting anything new, now that the 5200's are leaving. Kingsbridge keeps the artics on 2 or 3 routes. GH did have some fun with their first artics. When they were transferred from KB, GH put them on all different routes, including Coop City. Never lucky enough to photo these. I suppose I could count the Clara Hale & Amsterdam Orions, although these, too, are placed on limited lines in the Bronx; I consider them mostly Manhattan buses.
I agree; let's hope we all get some goodies.
By the way, I, too, collect toy buses, all scales.
Joe C
Oh yes, you are getting new buses in the Bronx: The 5250-5509 series artics. The DOT owns the Express lines to the Bronx- Liberty Lines and NYBS. But you should be happy that NYBS has Fishbowl Buses on the Express Runs. Any other company, they would be retired already but the clean great shape that NYBS keeps their buses in, that's why they're still there operating. Look at QS: They have CNG Orions running around. All their GMC'S are extinct from service (1985-1986 RTS) and the only non CNG equipment they have are the TMC'S and MCI'S and not to forget 6 Orions from 1997 non CNG. I hope to ride a fishbowl up to the Bronx one day before they're all retired for good.
MM2000
"I hope to ride a fishbowl up to the Bronx one day before they're all retired for good. "
Better do it fast. Our luck is running out.
True the 5250-5509 series is arriving. I saw 5287 yesterday and today on the Bx1. But, these are not for all lines. KB runs about 3 lines with them; GH the same, although they have had some fun with theirs. But this means people not fortunate(?) enough to use an "artic" route are damned to ride the junk. Yea, the 9500 & 9600 series are still there. But look in Bklyn; standing at Williamsburg Plza, I see all vinatge buses there. 4900's, 5000's. Low floors in the downtown area, too. I can't buy the reasoning.
Joe C
you are too picky on "fourtanate" people to get articulateds on their routes. Articulateds are only used on lines that can navigate turns through the route(for example, in brooklyn, you wouldnt see a articulated operate on the b82(for it turns) and in manhattan, soem streets are too hard for any articulated to naviage on. Long routes which have minor tours can be done(the M6 is one). These lines in the 5 boroughs i wish could get it. let me know why these i put with a star don't:
Brooklyn-B15,B41,B44,B46.
Queens-Q12,Q44,Q54,Q5,Q56,Q58*
Staten Island-S61/s91(had atriculated there once),S62/S92,S79*,X1,X3.
Bronx-Bx1,Bx2,Bx41,Bx55.Bx12.
Manhattan-M14*,M15,M16,M23,M34,M42,M27/M50*,M57*,N72,N79,M86,M104(this
route i assume doesnt have it because of the depto it is assigned to doesnt have room for them).
Can't help you with these, Simon. I know the reasons why artics run where they do. But like I was saying, or INTENDED to say, riders shouldn't be "punished" and not get new buses because they ride non-artic lines. But let's face it, every NEW bus becomes an OLD bus.
If all the 5200's were placed in one depot and the next series came out and was placed in another, we'd still complain, right? It's human nature. Remember when the 3000 series RTS's came in? They went to certain lines immediately. Some politcos complained that their areas were being discriminated against by not getting these new buses. The TA reassigned them and guess what. They were (and still are)the worst of the RTS buses. Ride like hell.
Joe C
politics play a part in it. This is a list of where the 4900's-5200's went to:
Bklyn:-East New York,Jackie Gleason,Fresh Pond,Ulmer Park.
Queens-Queens Villiage.
Manhattan-126th,Manhattanville,Hudson,
why did they leave the bronx to begin with?
politics play a part in it. This is a list of where the 4900's-5200's went to:
Bklyn:-East New York,Jackie Gleason,Fresh Pond,Ulmer Park.
Queens-Queens Villiage,Jamaica.
Manhattan-126th,Manhattanville,Hudson,
why did they leave the bronx to begin with?
I really wish I knew why they were taken out. Actually, G.H. still runs them. I live at the end of the Concourse and see the Bx 1&2 ,the 10 and the Bx 26 & 28. It hurts to see that KB's were taken away. If there is logic to it, what was the logic the TA used in taking certain 1000's out of KB, sending them to GH. They picked and choosed! Years ago, you could tell a bus assignment from its number and roster sheet.
No use of depot stickers. The artics were assigned very crazily. 1000 in one depot, 1002 in another, etc. Nonsense.
Joe C
Well the GH units are not going to be there much longer either. They will be going to FLA soon.
Peace
DaShawn Pretlow
Vice Presient/Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
As someone who doesn't live in the city, I've found this ongoing discussion about NYCTA bus assignments (and the lack of reassignments) fascinating. I can understand ANDY/ULMER PARK's frustration at having to drive a 15-year old bus at 3:00 am, and frankly I don't understand why NYCTA doesn't have a mix of buses assigned to its different facilities.
In Boston, for example, each garage has a group of newer buses which operate most off-peak runs, and the older buses are generally used weekdays only. In 1994-96, the MBTA received 400 new RTS-06's (series 0001-0400) which were assigned to the 'big three' garages that handle most of the city runs. In turn, the next newer group of 06's (series 8800-8899, built in 1989) were reassigned from the city garages to the suburban garages. The 1986-87 RTS-06's are assigned to various city and suburban garages, while the older 1985-86 RTS-04's are mostly assigned to the suburbs.
I would also assume that a depot which must operate 15-year old buses at all hours of the day also experiences higher maintenance costs, more frequent breakdowns on the road, etc.
Regarding the 'training pay' issue (if it's true) - I'm sure the union is trying to do right by its members by insisting on the training pay ... but ... it appears to be ultimately hurting their members at Ulmer Park by forcing them to have to drive a fleet of 15-year old junkers every day. I can understand training drivers how to operate an Orion, an artic or a CNG bus, but I don't understand the insistance that veteran GMC RTS drivers need to be trained how to operate a TMC or Nova RTS. Aren't they all the same, relatively speaking?
- Jim (RailBus)
i kind of like the idea of riding differnt type of buses throughot the nyc fleet. Never understood why MTA never bought Gillig Buses in services or the Hino and Renault they tested.
p.s. if you know places to get gmc new look in ho scale that u dont have to put together, let me know
Did you ever get those white & blue Chinese diecast buses, with the "roll-back" action?
They are all over the place.
Joe C
got them. but looking for Grumman design instead..and not the road champs ones
The "pay problem" with new buses at Ulmer Park, and only Ulmer Park, is this:
The depot's union leadership insists that all drivers be trained (with pay) on all new buses, even those that are identical to the old buses.
Yes, it's silly, but it ensures that the absolutely oldest buses stay at Ulmer.
heyjoe---- You were really on a roll bashing
Brooklynites about an hour ago. For that offense I
had my friend froggy the gremlin cause you to send
the same post twice. The kids in Andy's audience
are having a big laugh over that one. ( this is all
inside jokes folks, so stop scratching your heads.)
Seriously though Joe, you fail to recognize that
convenience plays a big role in people choosing a
van or even worse a private car. I have a friend
who is frequently running late in the morning, and
who has a 5 block walk to the bus, which takes her
to the subway. When one of the private cars would
pass by her as she was walking, it was an easy
choice for her, even though it cost her extra. When
people are waiting for a bus in the cold, and a van
comes by which will probably get them to Kings Plaza
or the IRT up at Utica, well that's faster and more
convenient too.
To my eyes Brooklyn bus service seems more frequent
since Metrocard. I usually get around on a
tricycle, (joke ) but in the really cold weather
I'll use the bus to reach the people I tutor (
although if I had any brains, I would let them run
around in the cold and come to my house so that I
could have more time to irritate people at this
website.) I don't mind seeing the older equipment,
and had been secretly hoping that the Flatbush depot
would have been filled with C-49 Macks, instead of
the lone surviving TA Mack having to share space
with GM's, TMC, Novas, and their ilk. I'd clear all
the current equipment out of the inside of Flatbush,
and let the Mack roam freely about inside.
Maybe turn the depot into a big tourist attraction.
Filling a depot with C49's is a step I'd like to see taken. Even a pudgy little TDH 4510. They last ran for OA.
I get what you are saying,Paul, but that was my point. The good folks at the TA also notice people running for a "convenient" van or cab; that hurts all of us, commuters and buffs alike. I saw it happen many moons ago on the old Bx14 (Edenwald Ave). The service really sucked so some enterprising person started a cab service, with multicolored Checkers!! Sorry, no pix of these, the fool that I was. (I did get some, actually).Later he graduated to bigger cars, vans and now minibuses. The Bx14 died many moons ago, the TA did not beef up service, but rather gave up the ghost. Imagine that scenario happening
on a grander scale, right here in Bklyn. If people gave up those freakin vans, fares could be counted more resonably and "fairly" (pun) and perhaps more new buses would be pressed into service, on ALL lines.
Joe
PS Sorry about Bklyn bashing. I actually like do the boro. Liked it even morein the '50's and '60's, but that's another issue.
Joe
I believe that 5075-5124 should go to HP not to FLA. I think HP should replace their 4100s with these buses. I wouldn't want to see buses 5075-5124 running around in Brooklyn. But yet here's an even better swap:
trade 4900-4944 at QV-FLA for 5075-5124 FLA-QV
I would rather see QV get 5075-5124 because there are more open strips on the QV routes than in Brooklyn. I just don't think Brooklyn deserves any good equipment. Queens need them more. And from what I heard, Queens will not get any more NEW buses for a while.
All Brooklyn depots except for UP always get the new stuff. WHY?
MM2000
ulmer park is working with garbage curently. the only new buses that they have are 900's from 1996. the only newer buses they recieved are the 9300's that are used primarily on express routes. the older buses are still being used on local routes(3200's,3000's,3600's and 3700's). Ulmer Park didnt get any of the new buses that east New York recieved, nor ar there any plans for them to either be a orion depot or new flyer, so send te new buses to ulmer park, they deserve them as wel as the next depot.
Could it be because Brooklyn has the most people in the city? I dont think the MTA assigns buses based on "open strips". Anyway look at what FLA has to work with now 3000 series, 3400's, those crappy 4400s from the Bronx, crappy 8300s from Staten Island etc. If and when FLA recieves 5075-5124 it will be a reward for being # 3 in maintenance in the city. SI riders will soon have the best fleet in the city, Bronx Riders will have brand new artics, Queens is good for now having recieved 4900's, 9300's, 9500's and 6000s (QV should get ENYs 4900's ENY doesnt deserve them and Jam should get MCIs for all the queens exp routes) Manhattan local bus service (except xtown routes) is useless (because of the subway) and only adds to congestion in the city. Brooklyn's bus service is needed and used by the most people so therefore they should get the most (usually new) buses.
I agree with this statement. Like I said before, Fla has the three busiest routes in the borough (B41,44,46). Except for the 9300's and maybe the 8400's, the rest of the fleet is old or remanufactured. Bring the new buses to the BK.........
B46M Limited
Manhattan local bus service (except xtown routes) is useless (because of the subway) and only adds to congestion in the city. Brooklyn's bus service is needed and used by the most people so therefore they should get the most (usually new) buses.
What the f*? Manhattan bus service useless? Handicapped, young kids, eldery, subway-phobics. And imagine the CROWDING on the subways! I think you're just a little too home-pride-ridden-not-giving-a-shit-about-anyone-else.
Yes, you're right. I do have a lot of pride for the borough of Brooklyn. Perhaps I was at fault for not making myself clear. Many Manhattan routes duplicate subway service therefore buses that ply lets say 6th ave (M5,6 & 7) could be put into better use on routes in queens and brooklyn (Try waiting for the westbound B8 or B6 during the morning rush). You have a good point stating that the elderly & handicapped people need the buses. Subway-phobics? Please, if you're scared get a dog!
PS. Next time please PLEASE DONT CURSE!!
dogs not allowed on subway.
dogs not allowed on subway.
Even if there were, what if you were a caynine-phobic? I personaly am.
Dogs are allowed in the subway. Heard of blind people?
The specific policy is that any registered service animal (usually a dog; also cats and some birds) accompanying an authorized user (usually blind; also limited-vision, deaf, or limited-hearing) is permitted on board any NYCT conveyance. I'm not sure of DOT's or other carriers' policies.
By the way, this extends to personal care attendants, who ride fare-free when accompanying a qualified disabled passenger. As with the service animal, the attendant is present ONLY to facilitate mobility, and thus is considered equivalent to a walker or a wheelchair. (Yes, it sounds terribly cold and impersonal, but that's the rule.) For obvious reasons, both the disabled passenger and the attendant must be registered, and they must travel together.
The DOTs HAVE to have the same rule. It's federal law I believe.
A person with a registered service animal is entitled to bring that animal with them ANYWHERE a person who does not need a registered service animal can go. It's federal law, and was so long before the 1993 ADA.
-Hank
ADA was passed in 1990.
Yes, I realized this late this afternoon when reading some other posts.
-Hank
"subway-phobics"
The other three groups mentioned have valid reasons for avoiding the subway, these do not. The only reason the TA still sells tokens is because of technophobes. It must end now.
My image of a subway phobic is someone who is fearful of being trapped underground in a subway train. I think it is a very real problem for people who have this fear. The city doesn't have to run a bus system just for them. I've gone through smoke conditions in the subway twice, and it gives you pause to think about safety. Being out on a bus is a lot less confining.
I guess fear of crime also plays a role. I've seen a few nasty things happen in the subways.
I agree 100%. Send HP 4100s to Fresh Pond!
The 4100's were originally from FP!
I know. They can send the additional ones over, 4152 and up.
50 new buses to FLA. Yes!!!!!!!! And we get the B78 back!!!!!!!
B46M Limited
Does anyone know ALL of the routes that are being moved to different depots as of 1/16/00 (besides the M34 & M23)?And what is the depot assignment of the M20?
m20-westside
x27-from jackie gleason back to ulmer park
x25-all runs from ulmer park
b82-all runs from East New York(no more from Ulemr park)
B78-from East New York to Flatbush
thats all i know of.
westside
If the following are on NASDAQ or the NYSE, what are their symbols?
Rohr
Breda
Bombardier
Kawaski
Orion
Any other subway car/bus manufacturer
Thanks, in advance.
Orion Bus is owned by a Canadian company, Western Star Truck Holdings. Their stock symbol is 'WSH' on the American Stock Exchange and 'WS' on the Toronto and Montreal stock exchanges. They also have a website at www.westernstarholdings.com.
- Jim (RailBus)
Aren't they also now a subsidiary of Volvo?
-Hank
Isn't Volvo supposed to merge with Ford?
I believe their auto division is, but not their bus and truck division.
-Hank
Anyone notice how LI Buses seem to have poor heating?
Last week I was on quite a few buses with little or no heat (2 diesel Orions, 2 CNG Orions). This was on the N21 and N23 routes.
There were a lot of passangers who sounded quite sick, and because there was no air circulation I came down with a nasty virus that brought me into Emergency, because of my sensitive immune system.
My question is, where is the best spot to sit on a bus without catching everyone else's germs?
I usually sit near the window on a forward facing seat, but unfortunately when you've got a "sick crowd" sitting by you you're stuck. (Had quite a few sick people sitting by me the prior week)
Are you any better off sitting near the back of the bus, and/or sideways seats? Man, that was scary, I almost thought that virus was going to kill me. I have to make an effort not to catch anymore germs on the bus. Will I have to use a mask?
I would say, if the AC/heat system has a large intake grille in the back of the bus (as on RTS's) sit in the FRONT. That way, you're farthest away from the point where all the foul bus interor air is passing through at its greatest volume.
I don't know what to say about buses that have a rooftop (i.e. Sutrak) system, as I don't know where the air intakes are.
In any event, stay as far away from the point the air enters the climate control system, as that's where it sucks in all the bad air.
I know the Orions have a huge vent in the back, but I always thought that was the blower, where all the air blew from back to front.
However there are also side vents by the windows, and I always thought that they draw in air.
In the summertime the back of the bus was always colder than the front. In the winter it seems the best heat is also in the rear.
In the very front of the Orions, the drivers have a seperate control for heat and A/C with vents there.
NYCT always has the blowers on with their Orions, even Stengal's.
LI Bus though has a habit of not having the blower on, which basically means there's no ventilation on the bus (windows are locked shut).
It feels like the blower blows from the back of the bus when it's on, so I'm assuming that big vent in back blows out air and the vents along the windows suck it in. Also heat comes from floor vents in winter. A circ system switched on usually has the blower switching on and off to keep the bus comfortable.
The Orions probably have a way different air circ system than Gilligs. Whenever I ride in a Gillig, I usually sweat in summer and freeze in winter, since the blower is not nearly as powerful or as effective as in the Orions. Another reason I'm awaiting the day when LI Bus scraps all it's Gilligs.
The Orions have an intake grill in the back. Its smaller on the 6000 series. The driver system is totally seperate then the passenger system. They can control their own heat, a/c and fresh air. The windshield defroster has to be on for the driver system to work. As for the passenger system, 20% of the air is fresh air. The outside intake is located on the curb side. Next time take a look. The small grill is the air intake I think. The large grill on the street side is the engine air intake. I personally like the a/c on the Orions better.
The HVAC on the older RTS seems useless.
Does anyone know if delivery list info is available on the web for more recent bus models - i.e., the TMC/Nova RTS buses, Orion I/V/VI models, etc.? There is a lot of good info out there for GMC 'Old Look'/"New Look' buses, Flxibles, AM Generals, older RTS buses, etc., but precious little on newer buses, even those built in the 1980's.
- Jim (RailBus)
I have 'em all -- BUT, they are not totally to date (about a year behind). The other problem is, they are in Paradox database format.
Is this info available? I'm interested in the lists in general, but specifically I'm trying to locate info on buses purchased by CNY Centro in Syracuse, NY.
- Jim (RailBus)
I'll try and sendyou the CNY Centro info over the weekend.
Thank you!
These are the Twin Coach models, POST WAR, that the New York City, Board of Transportation (later NYCTA) bought:
Delivered 1947
1400-1524
model:41-S
serial #s:164-203,380-439,826-850
Delivered 1947-48
1525-1575
model:44-S
serial #s:56-106
Delivered 1948
1700-1829
model:44-S
serial #s:218-347
the following were used in Queens
Delivered on 1947
160-199
model:41-S
serial #s: 339-378
(originally ordered by North Shore but delivered to NYCBOT)
Thank you, but I do not ever remember them in Queens only in Brooklyn out of Ulmer Park
These are the GM buses used in Queens by the NYCTA
300-319
model: TDH 4507
serial #s: 1100-1119
delivered 1947
originally ordered by North Shore Bus Company
2000-2129
model: TDH 4507
serial #s: 1851-1900, 2073-2099, 2231-2253, 2366-2395
delivered 1948
2039
model: TDH 4507
serial #: 2396
delivered 1948
replacement for the original 2039
2200-2261
model: TDH 4507
serial #s: 2660-2714, 2754-2760
delivered 1948
320-322
model: TD 4506
serial #s: 704-706
delivered 1946
acquired by Eastside Omnibus (#s 301-303) in Manhattan; acquired in 1948 by NYCBOT.
701-703
model: TD 4506
serial #s: 707-709
delivered 1946
acquired by Comprehensive Omnibus (same fleet numbers) in Manhattan; acquired in 1948 by NYCBOT
{when NYCBOT purchased Eastside Omnibus and Comprehensive Omnibus these routes became the Manhattan Bus Division of NYCBOT/NYCTA}
4500-4899
model: TDH 5101
serial #s: 001-400
delivered 1948-49
some of these buses also operated in Brooklyn and Staten Island
7000-7208
model: TDH 5106
serial #s: 1117-1325 (not in sequence)
delivered 1957
I have a few notes to mention abouyt my journies yesterday:
1. GL 5508: The driver had a Jamaica Depot hat on. Wonder if he was an ex-MTA driver.
2. GL 5519: This bus not only smelled like smoke and was putting me to sleep but also, you can see right through the destination sign because there's no Stop Requested sign on her.
3. QS 482: This bus has a protective covering behind the driver in where QS is located. Smart idea, protect from vandals.
4. HP 4125?!: Saw this bus on the Q32 with MHV stickers on her. When did this transfer take place?
5. And most popular: THE CS Orions: Ok, we have put them down within the past few weeks, especially me, but I DO have to say this: I recently rode on 4 CS buses in 2 days (454 and 558 Q32, 642 Q26, 660 Q27) and even though these buses look like junk, they sure have a nice ride. All were pretty fast. Also another note to say: 558 interior was CLEAN!!! Not 1 piece of garbage was on it! And it was out on that run for a while. OK, all buses are gonna have scratchitti on them- that's normal in NYC, BUT the interior garbage and graffiti has to stop and you have to blame that on CS Depot.
6. TCC 721: redone was on Q39 yesterday.
MM2000
Could someone please tell me the location of the Jackie Gleason Operating Division? Thank you.
36 and 5 av,Brooklyn ,on South East Corner
871 5th avenue Brooklyn,New York 112??
I know GMC New look buses are still running at NYBS, and i have seen
them at Triboro, but i also see one during the day comning from brooklyn. The bus is black colored and must be private, but im not sure. Is there any garage within the NYC area that still has GMC New Looks in the garage besides Triboro and are they still running(i was in Triboro New years eve, saw the buses, took pictures, but didn't ask if they were still operating or not)
Jamaica Bus still has one....It is in a "suburban" configuration....used when a large group of employees have to go somewhere at the same time (such as a funeral). From what a mechanic told me it is owned personally by Cooper....It is in the current livery of Jamaica bus.... It is parked in the southeast corner of the south parking lot...
the bus in question is a former triboro coach which until recently sported its original livery colors. it comes from borough park and returns there around 630 pm.
In addition, on occasion you can see running along Madison Avenue a GM New Look bus operated by New York Bus Service.
It must be the B110 bus route from Boro Park to Williamsburg......
B46M Limited
as a matter of fact it is not. they use old grumman buses. this bus runs from borough park to midtown daily. it is exclusively for orthodox jews .
Perhaps those are the only people who find utility in the routing, but nothing prevents others from riding.
The new map for 2000 is here. Just picked it up at the Transit Museum in Grand Central Terminal. Biggest change that i can see is they put the change of the M10 and M20 add to it. Also the rerouting of the M7 by Union Square. Glad they are up to date. Hope they start putting this into buses soon.
Thank you
Steve
"Hope they start putting this into buses soon."
I usually see a bunch every day on my bus.
Almost every weekday, around 7:50 AM, going north on Church at barclay, I see this dark-green fishbowl. Does anyone know what this is? I think it might have had 2 shades of green.
It might be from Williamsburg Brooklyn headed to the diamond district. The orthodox jews run quite a few buses into the midtown area. Was a mixed bag from what i recall new looks both gm and flex, decks, and mci plus schoolbuses. They were parked so you could see them from the bqe.
I would like to thank you guys who gave me the information on the rosters of the old Twin Coach Busses and Flexis. I looked on the web and found a NYCTA/MaBSOTA current roster, but it does not tell mr the year the were mfg, Does anyone know where I can get the following information. All MTA Busses since the first RTS s were delivered. The Roster number and the year delivered. I really do not need the serial number. In advance Thank you Bob
I'll give that RTS roster a try;
1201-1658 GM RTS-04 1981
2201-2579 GM RTS-04 1981
1659-1858 GM RTS-04 1982
2580-2704 GM RTS-04 1982
3001-3325 GM RTS-O4 1983
3400-3799 GM RTS-04 1984
3800-4218 GM RTS-04 1985
4300-4599 GM RTS-06 1986
4600-4899 GM RTS-06 1987
8000-8399 TMC RTS-06 1990
8401-8567 TMC RTS-06 1993
8600-8703 TMC RTS-06 1994
8750-9349 NVA RTS-06 1996
9350-9699 NVA RTS-06 1998
4900-5299 NVA RTS-06 1999
ANDY/UP
all correct except last bus is 5249 rather than 5299.
Thanks for the correction.I had to guess on that because my depot
(ulmer park) never gets any new buses!
ANDY
Thank You Andy, now I just need the Artics, Orions and whatever else is on the system Bob
What's the difference between the RTS-04 and RTS-06? and why are there no odd numbered RTS?
The RTS-6 has all stainless steel framing and a different front axle. The RTS-6 has also changed over the years since it was introduced in the mid-1980s.
As to why there are no odd-numbered RTS series, actually, there are, but NYCT never bought any of them. RTS-1 and -3 buses can still be found here and there. I've never heard of a -5 or a -7, though.
David
Regarding odd-numbered RTS series:
The RTS-05 (articulated) series consisted of exactly one demo unit, which was 40+20 instead of 35+25. I wonder why there were no takers?!?!
There's a photo of the 05 demo in an old Bus World; I'm not sure of the date.
GM thought that there was no market for a artic version of the RTS and dropped it after building the one. It was called the Mega RTS.
9350-9699 NVA RTS-06 1998
Nope. Some of those were MFD 1997.
you missed one..and i will help add to it
7000-7574 Remanufactured GMC RTS 1996-98
[you missed one..and i will help add to it
7000-7574 Remanufactured GMC RTS 1996-98]
It not #7000-#7574, it (1996 Remanufactured) #7000-#7049 from NYCTA & (1997 Remanufactured) #7500-#7559 from Midwest some of buses are from 1981 & 1982 GMC-RTS. I heard MTA will build 100 more Remanufactured buses soon.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
"I heard MTA will build 100 more Remanufactured buses soon."
Do you know how these buses will be numberd?
I don't think they'll be any more REMANS! All others will be sold or scrapped.
MM2000
Were these busses originally purchased by the MTA or were the from anotherr authority and what year were they originally mfg,
The remans were original ta rts buses from 1981/1982.Most were
original numbers 1200s,1300s,1400s,1500s,1600s,2000s.
ANDY/UP
The UTC bus roster gives the original bus number for each remanufactured bus. Go to:
http://hometown.aol.com/glenn6398/nycbusroster.html
Why renumber busses? Wouldn t it be simpler just to keep the same numbers?
When NYCT remanufactured the buses, it didn't remanufacture all the buses in a given series -- it picked and chose from among hundreds of 1981 and 1982 RTS buses. The rest were scrapped over time (except for a few 1982s that are still running -- I believe these are only from the express group). Therefore, it made sense to renumber them, rather than have large groups of number blocks unavailable while only a few buses were using them.
David
Hallo everybody out there,
I'm searching for informations about the use of articulated busses all over the world, but especially in asia, south america or africa. I need details about length of lines, number and statistics of fleets and so on. I'm writing a study concerning the global market of public transit vehicles for my university and have much problems to find some information about articulated busses. Can somebody help me with adresses or even facts ?
Bye and thanks to all Volker
How long before a driver switches to another route?
At NYC Transit Operators usually "pick" assignments four times a year, corresponding roughly to the change of seasons. "Picks" are also when the new schedules take effect. At those times, either by choice or because someone with greater seniority has taken a run that's currently occupied by someone else, an Operator has an opportunity to change routes -- within a depot. At least one "pick" a year is a "system pick," where Operators have more freedom to transfer between depots. I believe the "system pick" works somewhat differently from borough to borough.
David
You're right about the system in each borough. In Brooklyn an operator can pick among the five depots,SI between Yukon and Castleon.In Queens an operator is in his or her depot most of there career, they don't have a system pick.I don't know about MABSTOA I work in Ulmer Park, just picked back in on the X27.
MABSTOA picks just like Brooklyn. 4 picks a year one is a system pick.System picks are held when lines switch depots or depots open or close
In Queens, there is no system pick. Once you're in a depot, you stay there.
Of course, if your route is shifted to another Queens Division depot (e.g. when Q44 was consolidated from C.Stengel/Jamaica to C.Stengel only), you're allowed to follow it.
Queens Divison Bus Operators stay at their depots until retirement,
Jamaica and Casey Stengel depots split the Q44 down the middle 50/50
but Jamaica could not handle the work so it all went back to Casey Stengel. there was NO line pick at all!
I was wondering about the length of Mack C-49s and C-50s. From memories and pictures I have, it seems to me that these buses were usually full length or 40 feet. Is this right? But were the Fifth Avenue C-50s, of which I have two pictures, longer than the NYCTA Bingham Macks. The one picture I have of the NYCTA buses shows only five windows between the front and center doors grouped as 3 and 2. The 5th Avenue buses had 6, 2 groups of 3 each. This would suggest that these were longer. Did C-50s come in different lengths?
The NYCTA Binghams had a very wide front and rear door, as opposed to the standard sized front door on the 5th Ave. C50s. Both were 40 foot buses. The 5th Ave. C50s were a standard Mack design. The NYCTA Binghams were a custom design for NYC(and named for the Board of Transportation Chairman, Sidney Bingham) with sliding window sash and curved transverse seats. More important, the Binghams were designed to be easily converted into an ambulance (large size doors, hooks inside to hold stretchers) in case of a nuclear attack (a widely pervasive fear in the 1950s).
Thanks for your clarification. I was a child when the Bingham Macks passed on without a trace as the Fishbowls began to arrive. I used to see them mainly at the Jamaica end of the Brooklyn-Queens Jamaica Avenue and Atlantic Avenue routes. So the details about them are a little sketchy. Too bad not one of them survives! I remember the 5th Ave C-50 running on Surface routes across 125th Street before the takeover of 5th Ave/Surface and the creation of MABSTOA. Suddenly these disappeared too, although MABSTOA seemed to retain many older Macks. Very few, other than several C-49s and a few of a shorter model of similar vintage, ever were painted TA green. 3000-3009 were my favorites. I wish one of these beauties had been saved.
For those interested, there is one photo of a Rutgers Bus Service Neoplan Articulated and two photos of the new 30-foot Novas with Morris County Metro (NJ) in the People's Photo Section of TransiTALK. Direct your browser to http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Highway/2087/Sid.html
for my photo index page. While you're there, treat yourself to a trip through the rest of TransiTALK if you haven't visited it yet.
21 Bus pictures had been updates on TransiTrans bus's page & enjoy it.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Meaney,
I have sent countless e-mails, please adjust the TransiTALK Webring Fragment on your site to the most recent one!
Thanks
Trevor
Why does Green keep most of its Orion destination signs non-functional? Certainly Green can afford to program or repair them (and then charge to DOT and get reimbursed for the costs plus the 6% guaranteed profit margin).
Is the M79 completely articulated now that it is 9:52 AM on January 16? What about the other changes? Does the M20 say something more informative than BAT PK CTY on its way downtown from Lincoln Center? It could say M20 BATTERY, then say M20 PARK CITY. It is better than BAT PK CTY to me.
Actually, I was on it last week (they put the sign on this particluar bus a week early, don't rmemeber which one it was), and they added an "I" in CTY. What I want to know is when they'll add "ALBANY ST" "VIA 7 AVE"
I was in Manhattan this past Wednesday and spotted two buses headed south on 7th Avenue in the Times Square area with M20 on the rear destination sign. Guess they were practicing!
Either that or actually doing things on time for once. I noticed the bus stop signs for the M20 as much as 3 weeks early.
I spent quite a bit of time on 79th Street on Saturday. Only saw articulateds running, so perhaps they are now 100% articulated.
Chuck
All the busesthat came from WS to JG had there signs reprogramd to have the M20 sign in them, and also the new short tremael sign for the M10. So I geust thay had to put up the M20 so they could go down the Battry Park.
All the Buses have all signs programed by Code Numbers
Example
Code 72191
M39 Newark Train Station
Chicago Av
via Deleware St
If you enter the codes ,,you should be able to see the differents signs
The Codes are not given out for obvious Reasons
I gave a list of the New M10 and M20 Signs
I am very sorry but I CANNOT honor individual requests for Builder Production Records, or Rosters. Yes, I do have almost every builder since WWII. If I choose to post in here, this will be the ONLY place, and NO REPEAT POSTINGS. In other words, catch 'em while they're hot.
The lists I have are in Paradox database format -- and an OLD version (2.0 for DOS) at that. Sure, I know, I should go out and spend a hundred bucks on the latest version so EVERYONE can use the lists. But I simply don't have a need to do so as it works just fine for me at my end.
Typing up e-mails to fulfill individual requests is a LOT of work. I have been inundated with requests from individuals saying "Send me the production records for all NYCTA buses" or something like that. No "Please", no offer of someting in return, no nothing. Sorry, but I am NOT going to be able to send such lists out. That takes a LOT of work and time, which I do not have. (I have a family, as well as a full-time job driving transit buses.)
I have posted production records in the past for subjects everyone might be interested in, here in this forum. Believe me, it was a HUGE amount of work to do so. R. D. Childs has also done so, and his efforts are appreciated. (I was going to post what R. D. did, he sure saved me a lot of work!!! Thanks!) The production records I have NOT POSTED (i.e. GM "old looks") are all available on the web.
So, due to the amount of listings, and the way buses got numbered out-of-order, etc., it would be a lot of work to post the GM "oldlooks" here.
They are available by model at:
http://www.omot.org/
PLEASE -- do not send requests for rosters, production lists to me. In the past couple days I have been inundated with e-mails requesting such, and I'm sorry, I just do not have the time to fulfill these requests. I feel compelled to remove my e-mail access from the headers, with the amount of e-mail I have gotten. Sorry.
Ulmer Park not only got the 9200s back from Gleason,but also a
whole bunch of old coaches from Yukon(4800s & 3800s).I suspect
you will be seeing some of these on local lines.Also spotted in
Ulmer Park by me last night 4168(with soft seats) and a damaged
4121 bearing a Westside decal.
ANDY/UP
as of tommorow UP will need 128 coaches to make service on the x27,28,29.
How come the B50 was diverted to Ave.K between Flatlands and Kings Hwy in the early 90's? I believe t was because of the Flatbush Ave turn. How come it was put back on Flatlands pre B82????
B46M Limited
The B50 was diverted via Avenue K because it made for a more direct, less heavily trafficked routing. However, the people in the neighborhood were against it, so it went back soon after.
David
AS of today January 16, I went by the Yukon Bus Depot & noticed that there weren't anymore Orion surburban express buses there, I would like to know what depot did these buses go to.
Please post information on bustalk.
Sincerely,
Michael
i find this hard to believe, because if you look at the bus roster for all depots, Orion #115-#157 are still at Yukon Depot(and these are express buses). I know some of the 4800's expresses went to UP, but the Orions SHOULD still be there
they were probably all parked inside due to the brutal cold.
What happened on each of these dates
1- 2/5/1980
2- 2/22/1922- what avenue
3- 3/19/1962
4- 3/8/1995
5- 7/13/1907- between which two areas (in Manhattan)
6- 9/14/1976- On which Avenue in Manhattan. Since When? How long did this last? What route(s)?
7-11/3/1965
8-11/15/1987- what route, and to where
(based on official transit public informationm)
i got a few answers. let me know if i am right:
1-?
2-?
3-MABSTOA is introduced(called Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority).
4-the last GMC Blitz operates #5000's series)
5-?
6-limited stop service begins on the M15
7-The express route, R-8x begins service, from Staten Island to Bklyn.
8-Q3 begins service to JFK Aitrport and Q5 to Green Acres Mall.
here is 2 for you?
when did the B33 stop running?
When did B1,b3 and b4 change serivces and what lines did these replace?>
you got # 3,7, and 8 correct
1- 2/5/1980: Stumped
2- 2/22/1922- what avenue: Stumped
3- 3/19/1962: Stumped:
4- 3/8/1995:Fleet becomes 100% accessible (last new-look taken out of service)
5- 7/13/1907- between which two areas (in Manhattan): I'm not sure between whhich two areas, but I know it was that the first gas-powered motorbus operates.
6- 9/14/1976- On which Avenue in Manhattan. Since When? How long did this last? What route(s)? 1st+2nd. Since 1976. Lasted foreva. M15.
7-11/3/1965: Cit's first express service begins, operating between Sataen Island and brooklyn (RX-8)
8-11/15/1987- what route, and to where: Q3 to JFK
Nice going! of those you answered you only missed #6. One hint : It was a special type of bus.You also got the route(s) and Avenue(s) wrong.
"Nice going!"
Thanks!
WAIT! I GOT THE ANSWER TO #6! (I hope)
Bus: Double deck.
Aves: Madison. Church. Trinity. Lenox. Broadway. 7th. 5th. 4th. Laffyette. wait, Laffyette is a street.
Routes: M1, M4.
HOLD ON WAIIIT FORGET ME LAST ANSWAH!
Bus:Double deck.
Routes: m4, m5.
Aves: 6th.5th.riverside drive. boradway.madison.7th.port washington.
Good!! now when did they go out of service again. When the the last time before this date when double deckers ran
"Good!! now when did they go out of service again. When the the last time before this date when double deckers ran"
I/have/no/idea?
4- 3/8/1995 - First Metrocard use on busses
Buzz! wrong answer
As I understand it, the RTS Model 08 operates in CHI-TOWN. I only heard of the 04 and 06 models, nor have I seen any photos of them. Could someone please fill me in on the speces of this bus?
The "08" series of RTS buses also operates in El Paso, Texas and Long Beach, California.
Not sure of OFFICIAL specifications, but I think the "08" includes a front-door wheelchair lift. Both properties above have it, as well as Chicago.
As far as I know, the only distinctive feature of the RTS-08 is the location of the lift: at the front door. I could be wrong though.
As to why Chicago's -08s were purchased without AC? Your guess is as good as mine, DefyReason. The CTA management has never been renowned for logical reasoning --- or concern for the comfort of its riders. During the early 1980s, they had horrific problems with the AC in their 1972-76 Fishbowls resulting from the CTA's customized specs. (Earlier models were airless.) They ultimately disconnected the air in the Fishbowls and once again placed orders, throughout the 1980s, for airless coaches (except for a small group of MAN artics used for express routes). Incidentally, the 1991 RTS-08s were the first CTA buses to be wheelchair-accessible; only because it was federally mandated by the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Don't the RTS-08 also have wider, slide-glide doors?
Yes, you are correct. The front door is wider to accomodate the wheelchair lift.
Chicago's have a different rear end, owing to the fact that they are not air conditioned. They have a rear window. But, the engine tailgate is totally different. The ones in Long Beach, California, have the standard RTS-type tailgates. Haven't been hrough El Paso or Toronto in ages, so I don't know what tailgates they have.
I never seen or heard about RTS Model 08 but in New York City MTA have RTS Model 04 to 06 from 1981 to 1999. Check out the NYCT-MTA Bus Roster .
Peace Out
David Justiniano
For a few photos of the RTS-08's that operate in Toronto, go to
http://members.xoom.com/busgal/ttc.html
and look for the 5 photos of buses 7241, 7242 and 7228 in the index.
From that picture of 7242, it looks like the lift is at the rear door.
-HAnk
They also have them in Cleveland. Looks like a morphed 04 or 06.
Yeah, that's how the 1992's look in Long Beach, California. They have a "morphed" (as you put it...) front end, but they have a rear door lift and everything else is "normal".
Yet their 1993's came with the same front end as Chicago (and now Golden Gate Transit out in San Francisco) with front door lifts.
Here is the history on the RTS-08 (Originally Designed by TMC):
The RTS-08 was designed by the Transportation Manufacturing Corporation (TMC) to provide a Front-Door-Lift on the RTS model. Quite a few transit authorities have the in which many of you have posted in past messages (i.e. Chicago, Hawaii, Long Beach Transit, etc.). Right before the RTS model was transferred to the ownership of the NovaBUS Corporation, the RTS-08 was discontinued.
When NovaBUS picked up the RTS designed it continued on with the regular RTS-06 model while producing new models of the RTS-06 CNG, RTS-06 DUETS (CNG-Hybrid), and the RTS-06 HEV (Diesel-Hybrid). The need for a front door RTS came about again, NovaBUS heeded the call. The redesigning the RTS-08 BUT naming it the RTS-06 WFD, standing for Wide Front Door. These are now the buses operating in Toronto and various cities that has the RTS-06 WFD since 1998. New Jersey Transit is demonstrating an RTS-06 WFD Super Suburban which looks like your ordinary RTS-06 WFD on the outside, but has the interior of a MCI. I have ridden this bus and if the NJT or TA decides to purchase this bus, everyone is in for a treat.
History provided by Trevor Logan!
Trevor
thank you.
Centro in Syracuse, NY also operates the Bus Formerly Known as RTS 08. And to answer an earlier question, yes the RTS 08/RTS 06 WFD has slide-glide front doors.
- Jim (RailBus)
Thanks, Trevor, for probably the BEST explanation of it all.
To track who has the "08" series, I checked the production list printouts I have that came straight from TMC and Novabus.
Here's the properties that have them (at least according to TMC and Nova in early 1999):
NOVABUS:
Dallas Area Rapid Transit (TX)
Toronto Transit Commission (ON)
Golden Gate Bridge, Highway & Transportation District (CA)
Western Reserve Transit Authority (Youngstown, OH)
Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority (OH)
Georgetown University (Washington, DC)
TMC:
Charter Bus Lines of British Columbia (Victoria, BC)
(the above order even came with Cummins C8.3 engines!)
University of Georgia (Athens, GA)
Spokane Transit Authority (WA)
Memphis Area Transit Authority (TN)
Oaho Transit Services (Honolulu, HI)
Capital Metro (Austin, TX)
Long Beach Transit (CA)
Birmingham-Jefferson County Transit Authority (AL)
Muncie Indiana Transit System (IN)
Sun Metro (El PASO< TX)
Chicago Transit Authority (IL)
City of Phoenix Transit System (AZ)
Believe it or not, according to he TMC records, Chicago's were NOT the first; they were pre-dated by Phoenix's order by 11 months! (The CTA order was 5/91 -- Phoenix was 4/90.)
And while going through the lists, someone asked about "07" series, and I found what that was. There wre TWO "07" RTS's built. Serials NR828850 and NR828851 were "T-Drive Test Buses". The first one went to SMART in Detroit, MI; no notations on the second one. For those not familiar with the terminology, the "T-drive" would be one in which the engine sits facing forward/backward instead of sideways.
Steve, CNY Centro in Syracuse also has a group of NovaBus RTS's with the '08' front and wide front doors. They were delivered in late 1997 and have CNG engines. Are these on your delivery list - if so, as what model?
- Jim (RailBus)
The CENTRO models are the NovaBUS RTS-06 WFD CNG Model! Not 08s!
Trevor
Around noon-time today, I saw two Low-Floor Novas heading south (towards New York City) on the New York Thruway (I-87) between Harriman and Suffern, NY (Exits 16 and 15). Both were in all white, with no apparent livery or operator identification. One of the destination signs said, "Test Pattern". While I would hope they were headed somewhere in the NYC Metropolitan Area, I suspect that routing would apply to almost anywhere along the Atlantic Coast. Anybody have any idea to what city they may have been heading?
perhaps nyct which has ordered 5 nova low floors hybrids.
6360-6364, what depots are they assigned to, MHV?
MM2000
The 5 Nova HEV-Hybrid Electric Vehicles are not the Low Floor LFS model. The 5 Nova Hybrids we are recieving in February will be NovaBUS RTS-06 HEVs. The buses, 6360-6364 will be assigned to Manhattanville until the 125 Orion VII Hybrids arrive in 2001, then all Hybrids will be transferred to Mother Clara Hale.
Trevor
This past Friday, I went to D.C. to observe and photograph the bus and rail activities. To my surprise, WAMATA was still running 1962-68 GM fishbowls. The following were the models that were seen:
4 1962 TDH-5302's at the Pentagon
About 7 0r 8 T6H-5306's
About 6 T6H-5304's
I rode fishbowl #6685, a T6H-5304, from Silver Spring to Federal Triangle. This bus rode good and sounded great.
It looks like all the Flxible 'New Looks' were retired.
It is surly amazing that WAMATA is still operating 38 year old buses in immaculate condition. Many of you bus fans that love fishbowls should take a 5 hour bus ride to DC for a childhood experience.
I now live in the DC area and I'm happy to see the new looks still operating. I believe their still at least 50 of them operating. Their is still at least one Flxible 53096-6-1 which is 8597. 8597 has dot matrix signs and it's usually on the Z5 route. I usually see it on route 29 or at the Silver Spring Metro station.
Wayne
I'm sure most of you know the rear-light configuration on NYCTA buses (rectangluar lights, in a row). On other buses (CTA RTS-08's, Most private Orions and RTS's, etc) have circular lights in a column. Why is this?
Everyone specs their buses differently, this is TA standard, everyone has their own standards for taillights.
Trevor
Actually, most other RTS's have the "standard" RTS taillamp configuration as does NYCTA. There are only two places I have seen different ones: Chicago's RTS-08's, and about half a dozen RTS's where I drive (Orange County, California). We have the small circular lamps on those buses, but the tailgates are made of plastic instead of the heavy metal; but, it's only on about half a dozen of our 130 RTS's.
The circular tail lights on RTS's are more plentiful back in the NYC Metro Area. All of New Jersey Transit's (and the privates' buses from the State) RTS's have them (both orders - 26/2700 and 1000's), as do Green Bus Lines' 1100 series and at least one Jamaica Bus Lines 3800 series. The 35 foot RTS's Connecticut bought for Waterbury and New Britain have them also.
One reason for the circular lights on some orders may be cost as they are more standardized since trucks use them as well. Cleveland replaced just about all of the RTS-03 rectangular lights with round ones back in the 80's to save costs during rehab.
Flxible eliminated the unique tail lamps they used to use (ala the 870's) with the small round lamps for cost savings.
A mechanic I know for PAT in Pittsburgh told me the square lights cost them about $8-12 a peice as opposed to the round lights that cost $3-5 a peice. Big savings in a large fleet.
The new thing around here in Pittsburgh are the LED tail/brake/turn lights. Both small and large sizes. They cost a little more than the standard round lights but they last much longer and are a lot brighter than the older lights.
RDChilds
All the recent NYCT buses have LED light setups. All exterior lights except the headlights, backup lights, and front turn signals are LED. The exception to that is the MCIs, which have all standard lights.
-Hank
We have one RTS (08 series) at Georgetown University. This is also a fuel cell powered bus and it is the quickest bus I've ever ridden. We have another at Roswell now that's close to completion.
Wayne
I think I have finally discovered what the hell you're talking about. Saw 4192 on the Bx7 this weekend. Besides the fact that this is the first unrepainted RTS I've seen in a while, it still has all of it's original MTA logos, (it has Authority!) the numbers were a combo of different number styles, but the rear end had '4192' in the old syle on the lower left side, opposite the route number sign.
-Hank
You know why? Because early 90s someone stole about at least 30 RTS number plates from 4100s. That is why we call Bronx-Style Numbers & i still see couple in the bronx. It sound crazy & why do someone want number plates for?
Peace Out
David Justiniano
I would say more than 30 plates were stolen. For a while there it seemed as though every-other Bronx bus had number plates missing. Ex-KB bus 4212 had its 'Bronx-style' numbers still on long after it was moved to FP.
Once I've seen the rear number plate removed by someone riding on the back of the bus. He was standing on the bumper and reached up, snatched the number plate off and threw it on the ground. At one point OA depots started adding the number plate to their 1981 RTS in Manhattan when they mounted the ad rack.
Wayne
In the July 1940 issue of Fortune Magazine, there is a 6 page article on the Omnibus Corporation which was a holding company that owned Fifth Avenue Coach. It is a very interesting article on Fifth Avenue and Chicago Motor Coach, which was also owned by Omnibus.
What is really fascinating is the detailing of a round trip run of Bus 31, Run 265, Route 1 which went from Park Row to West 135th Street and back a distance of 8.2 miles each way. It has a route map of both legs of the trip, showing passengers getting on and off at each stop, fares collected, the time at various points on the route. They calculated the cost of the driver's pay, fuel, repairs, depreciation, provisions for injuries, taxes, garaging, and overhead. Can you guess what the breakeven point is each way?
I have made some copies of the article and will be happy to send it to anyone who is interested. Just e-mail me your name and address. It's free. If you have something you'd care to copy about Mack buses, Greyhound, or a photo of anything unusual in transit, I'd be happy to receive it. Anyways, I'd be happy to see this article get into the hands of people who would enjoy it.
Please E-mail me the 7/40 Fortune magazine article!! Thanks-Steve
Hey Paul,
That sounds very interesting.I've always been interested in the
day to day operation of 5 ave coach,the pre-mabstoa company
I've emailed you my name and address so you can send me a copy
of this story.Thank you very much.
ANDY/UP
Bronx stole Amsterdam.
Queens stole the Q32, and half of its runs.
What next, uh, something else?
Well, isn't the Q32 supposed to go to Queens?
As for the Amsterdam thing, I think it's stupid.
"Well, isn't the Q32 supposed to go to Queens?"
The Q32 originally was the M32 and only came out of Hudson.
"As for the Amsterdam thing, I think it's stupid."
Me too.
Actually. the M32 operated out of 54th Street depot.
Wayne
"Actually. the M32 operated out of 54th Street depot."
Well yeah, but it ONLY came from there.
"Actually. the M32 operated out of 54th Street depot."
Well yeah, but it ONLY came from there. Manhattan Division.
Hey Tevi, guess what. Several 4100's from WS have been spotted in Brooklyn service. Each depot has a few. I dont have all the numbers just yet, but 4125, 4130 and 4137 are among them. Oh and Tevi guess what else. Those 4100's were originally out of FP--BROOKLYN Division.
Manhattan Division no longer has the last two 1982 local buses either. Bus 2611 was moved to FLA--Brooklyn's in the house, again!! It was spotted on the B41. Manhattan really can't lay claim to 2611 either, as that bus was more known for operating out the old Coliseum Depot and then 146 St/MCHale--BRONX DIVISION.
The moral of the story, my man, is this:
BUILD A BRIDGE, AND GET OVER IT!!
I have spotted some of 4100s in Brooklyn & Carlton Storage Yard last week. That mean oldest buses will go to Brooklyn Division until retires? 1982 GMC-RTS #2611 is the only bus still running & rest of other buses retires expect couples 1700s still running in the Queens & Brooklyn Division. Why Queens & Brooklyn getting oldest buses from the Bronx & Manhattan Division?
Peace Out
David Justiniano
2611 and 1700 are the only two 1982 GMC-RTS's still running. There are still several (about 21 or 22) express coaches still in service at JAM, QV and UP. You're right David, as MABSTOA gets new buses and aritcs Bklyn and Queens keep getting old stuff. So, I hope Tevi stops his crying.
Sorry, I meant that 1700 and 2611 were the only two LOCALS still running.
See my posts from 5200's to UP. I have been saying this for the longest........
B46M Limited
I saw 4125 on the B41 tonight at Utica and Avenue N. It was heaing towards Downtown Bklyn........
B46M Limited
1. Bronx "stole" Amsterdam? For the purposes of MABSTOA subdivisions, Amsterdam's drivers have always been grouped with the Bronx drivers. It makes sense that the depot should get the same classification as its drivers. And the passengers don't care about such minutiae anyway.
2. Q32 is, by definition, a Queens route serving a Queens-based market. It makes sense for some of the work to be based in Queens. The passengers don't care as long as the bus arrives.
--
Aside: "Stole" is a rather strong word to use in this context. Should Manhattan Division "press charges" against Bronx and Queens? Since all divisions report to NYCT upper management, who would prosecute and who would defend (and who would judge)? Talk about a house divided against itself.
Aside #2: A bus route is a bus route. Anything else is merely a "name" thing, and (to paraphrase Lewis Carroll) one should never confuse the name of the thing with what the thing is called. Nobody's hourly rate is effected by division to which someone else's depot or route may be assigned.
Aside #3: NYCT is Public-Benefit Corporation, according to its enabling legislation. It exists for the benefit of the Riding Public. Truth be told, the only members of the public who care about any of this are the ones in this group, plus one lady on East 79th Street who has never seen the inside of a bus in her life, but still doesn't like East Side routes running out of the West Side Depot.
Shouldn't they change the design on the front on their sticker to an Orion?
CS logo is same way ALL Orion depot but has an RTS on the sticker.
MM2000
Anything over a RTS!
Wayne
for all die hard bus fans..her's 2 hard questions for you.
1- when did the first articulated bus come to ny and to which borough was it assigned to(local and express route for extra points).
2-which depot had the famous double decker buses that ran on the M1?
3-New york city transit authority had test buses running on the m4 and m32. can you name the 2 companies that brought test buses over?
4-why did the MTA never buy the famous MCI classic(used on private lines only).
let me know your answers.
1. 1974 - it was a Neoplan that ran in Manhattan, if memory serves
2. 132nd Street
3. Hino and Renault
4. The story I got was that MCI had a good thing going in selling RTSs to NYCT and wouldn't even submit a Classic for testing. Additionally, at the time NYCT had a policy against front door wheelchair lifts, and MCI wouldn't modify the Classic to provide a rear door lift.
David
4. GM was making the RTS in the US at the time that GM Canada was making the Classic in Canada, TMC was making the RTS in the US at the time that MCI was making the Classic in Canada, and Novabus took over the Classic line from MCI after it took over the RTS design from TMC.
Actually NovaBus bought the Classic design from MCI before it took over the RTS design from TMC. The first "NovaBus" Classic was purchased by the STCUM system of Montreal, the year was 1995 first quarter. Then in late 1995 the first "NovaBus" RTS was built and delivered to MBTA in Boston. These RTS orders were originally placed with TMC and continued by NovaBus.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
Vice President & Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
The first Nova RTS was delivered to MBTA Boston in January 1995 (MBTA #0139), the last TMC RTS (MBTA #0138) was delivered in December 1994. I think Nova bought the Quebec plant from MCI in late 93 or early 94. The first Nova low-floor test bus was displayed at the APTA convention in Boston in September 1994.
Yes! Thanks for that. I had to remember about the dates really quickly to respond while the thought was with me. I also have an article from a back issue of Bus World where they talked about the NovaBus era beginning.
Thanks Again
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
Vice President/Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
Regarding Question #2 (infamous double-deckers):
They were initially assigned to M4, M5 (at 132nd Street), because those were perceived to be the most touristy routes.
However, and with No Disrespect Intended, the Irish-born maintainers at 132nd Street refused to touch the British-made buses. As a result, the buses were moved to 146th Street for use on the M1.
What ultimately happened to them, anyway?
They ended up toiling for Gray Lines in San Francisco. Last I heard, they were still running, but they'd be almost 25 years old now.
David
you got 2 and 3 right
In regards to 1. I did some more thinking. The 1974 artic experiment was with a M.A.N., not a Neoplan. I've seen pictures.
David
the offical answers(well as far as i know from Bus World)
1-Mid 1980's..circa 1983..it was a Neoplan and was tested on the
X13 bus line from Yukon.
2-correct..132nd St and then moved to 146th st.
3-Hino and Renult. saw pics of these buse on the M4 and M42. The
Renualt was #962 and the Hino was #961.
4-The reason that i found out was that both buses(The RTS and the
MCI Classic) were both made by the same companies and they did
not want to be in competition with each other, so the buses were
bought by private companies instead.
Here's an answer to 1. that supports what I said earlier:
1. From the Metropolitan Transportation Authority 1974 Annual Report, page 8, section 2 (entitled "Articulated Bus"):
"An articulated bus, which has two connecting passenger sections and swivels trailer-like in the middle, was introduced to New York in June, 1974 for a two-week test on City streets.
"The German-made bus, which is nearly one-third longer and has greater seating capacity than the conventional city bus, was tested in New York as part of a demonstration of high capacity vehicles being conducted by a consortium of eight cities acrossthe U.S. this summer. Estimated cost of this bus is $85,000."
'Nuff said.
A correction: Hino was #951 and Renault was #961. Check out the photos of these 2 buses at NYC Bus Photo Album II on this web site. Also back during that time around 1981, I had seen Renault 961 being tested one day on the B53 (Q54). I had just missed a chance to ride it. While I was waiting for the bus, it went the opposite way.
I remember when living in Ridgewood that 961 (the Hino demo)was used alot on the B26 saw it alot at Mrytle/Wycoff.
Remember there were 3 Hinos: 950,951,961. The first two were identical, only one of them had a/c. The 961 was a larger model. There were 2 Renaults.
Artics were tested on the SI X-lines - one from Volvo and one from MAN...mid 80's I believe.
Chip
I would like to know if anyone has pictures of Crosstown Bus Depot from the 1970's ONLY. I would appreciate it.
If so, please post on bustalk.
Sincerely,
Michael
Can anyone tell me if Westchester County Bee Line Busses have a Web site and if so what it is. Thank you
Here 'ya go.
http://www.co.westchester.ny.us/trans/beeline.htm
Peace,
Andee
Thank you Andee
what do you need??
I remember going up to the Galleria in White Plains when it was first built in 1980 using the Bee Line.
The line from the Bronx to White Plains consisted of Fishbowls and RTS's.
I'm curious - does anyone know when the last of those two models were retired? Thanks.
The Bee Line actually didn't come into being until late in the 1980's.
You probably rode one of the last major independents the county had, like Westchester Street Transportation. They were incorporated under the "W" logo sometime in the mid-to-late-1970's. The RTS buses were retired when the Flx Metros came in, but the 35 foot models still run to this day for the smaller companies in the county. Same for the fishbowls, of which there were many types and batches, some of the latest being from Dallas.
JOe C
Yes that's right. It was not known as Bee Line back then.
The busses were in the present-day white with gold/orange and blue stripes livery, but they did go under a different name.
In fact, I believe some of them may have been run by the same company that runs Domenico tours, but I'm not 100% sure.
As far as I know, it was and still is run by Barranaccia Brothers.
Not clear on the spelling. Know how those Italian names are!
The stylized "W" that was started then and still used was referred to as the "3 bananas" by us bus fans.
Just a bit of trivia.
Joe C
Say, PBLG,
Do you still ride the #6? Are you a Bronxite? Ride Bee Line often?
Joe C
Yes I ride the #6 and #5 trains. I no longer work in Manhattan so when I do it's more for pleasure than for business.
I used to ride the Westchester Bus more often in the past before. I used to ride the bus in the 80's until about 1988. After that, I got my first car and started driving to places like the Galleria.
I lost touch with the Westchester busses for a while. I remember fondly riding in the "new" M.A.N. articulated busses to the Galleria and the RTS's to Cross County Shopping Center. I can't believe the time has already come to replace them. I remember the Fishbowls, but I recall only riding them once or twice.
How about yourself? Are you also a rider of the Westchester busses?
I currently ride the "D" to work, and just about everything else. My "home" station is Bedford Pk. I take the #4 train once in a while.
As a bus photographer I get around alot, mostly by bus or train; I have no car.
One of Bee Lines' best assets is the county, especially north of W.P.
They really don't promote or encourage riding like they should, and did years ago. Service could be better than it is. In fact, looking over old maps & schedules it is quite plain to see how much service is lacking. Heaven forbid a person misses a connection; one could be stranded all night or weekend.
I guess you read on these posts that the MAN's will be history in about a year. To be replaced by Neoplan Artics. Should be fun, as no operator in the area ever got Neo's.
Are you an active fan? Bus, rail, both? Do you attend group trips?
There are some swell organizations for buffs.
Stay in touch,
Joe C
I currently ride the "D" to work, and just about everything else. My "home" station is Bedford Pk. I take the #4 train once in a while.
As a bus photographer I get around alot, mostly by bus or train; I have no car.
One of Bee Lines' best assets is the county, especially north of W.P.
They really don't promote or encourage riding like they should, and did years ago. Service could be better than it is. In fact, looking over old maps & schedules it is quite plain to see how much service is lacking. Heaven forbid a person misses a connection; one could be stranded all night or weekend.
I guess you read on these posts that the MAN's will be history in about a year. To be replaced by Neoplan Artics. Should be fun, as no operator in the area ever got Neo's.
Are you an active fan? Bus, rail, both? Do you attend group trips?
There are some swell organizations for buffs.
Stay in touch,
Joe C
Joe -
I am an active fan of busses (and trains). I have been fascinated by busses since I was a kid.
It all started with the fishbowls in the seventies. I was really young back then, but I remember being fascinated by the way not all the fishbowls looked alike. I noticed even back then that the windshields were different and the exhaust pipe was located in different spots. The colors on the busses went from green to two-tone blue and then to white and blue.
The fascination magnified when I first saw a Grumman 870. I was only 10 at the time. I used to draw busses all the time in my past time. I would also take pictures with a cheap camera I had won at the school bazaar. I even collected newspaper clippings about the articles that ran everyday about the Grummans and RTS's. At the time, there was the whole Grumman A-frame issue, and how the RTS's were the rivals of the Grumman. I even have the articles that ran about the Hino and the Renault and the M.A.N. which NYC tested out at the time.
As the years went on, as I took the busses to school and then to work, I was always paying attention to the type of bus I rode. After I learned how to drive, I took the bus less, but I still followed the news on busses. I remember seeing an Orion in the City for the first time back in '93 which would signal the start of a new generation of busses for the city's fleet.
Here I am 30 years old, and my interests has been intensified like I was 10 again. With the New Flyer Artics, Low Floors, CNGs, and Orions, there is a whole new generation of busses to find out about.
At the time, I didn't think of asking anyone about busses. I found out what I could through books and newspapers. I didn't know anyone in the NYCTA, and I didn't want to talk to the bus drivers because I felt that they would not want to be bothered by some questions from some high school kid. But I am sure glad that we now have the internet where we can all share bus stories and find out more about our common interest.
I would like to find out more about any bus groups out there and when there are any planned fan trips/events like Bus Fest. Thank you for your time and I look forward to speaking with you and everyone again.
John
PBLG,
I know you were corresponding with Joe. I just wanted to tell you that I became fascinated with buses (and the subway) much like you did. I am 34 years old - so we were seeing fishbowls and learning about them around the same time. I remember well when they started painting the buses two tone blue and then the blue/white scheme. I just immediately liked fishbowls and when the T6H-5309A's along I was immediately attached to them. I always lived in the Bronx and Kingsbridge was always my favorite depot - probably because it always had my favorite buses includind lot's of Tdh-5303 with A/C and Kingsbridge also had lot's of Grumman 870's. I also was a big fan of the Grumman 870. I thought it was clearly the best looking bus built. I was sad when the Grumman crisis came up. I was thrilled when they returned to service and sad again when the NYCTA got rid of the Grumman 870. I too, didn't ask questions about buses because I didn't think the drivers wanted to be bothered. I learned a vast majority of info. by riding a lot, reading Bus World and I met 2 other bus enthusiasts on the Nostalgia train. One had connections at Green Bus Lines which is where I drove a bus for the first time at the age of 15. One way I was able to stay "in touch" is that I was riding the bus to school from the 4th grade 'til High School graduation - so I always had a bus pass and I used it plenty for rides other than to/from school. In high school many times I'd ride for a couple of hours after school and I'd ride lot's of Coliseum routes because it eventually became a Grumman 870 depot. I also had to ride Kingsbridge routes especially my all time favorite the old Bx38. I always had favorites and it was usually because their were parts of the route where they were able to move fast like the Bx12, Bx38, Bx55 (when it went SB on Washington Ave/NB on Third Ave), Q1, Q76 and any route that went down Merrick Blvd, B57, B58 and others. I would venture into Manhattan from time to time, but I didn't like it too much because Manhattan buses didn't move too fast. I always lived around MABSTOA buses, but one of my bus buddies grew up in SE Queens and Brooklyn and he was quite knowledgeable about TA routes. That was good because we both taught each other. I did know a bit about Flushing depot because I lived near to the Q44 route for a number of years. I started riding TA routes later when I old enough to roam throughout the city.
Happy Trails,
Wayne
Wayne & PBLG,
Love hearing your recollections. Imagine what I experienced in 1959 seeing the first green & yellow TDH 5301 rounding the corner at 150th Street and Courtlandt Ave where I lived. I swear, it was like a visitor from space. A welcome visitor at that!
Yeah, I'm a bit older than you guys. My fav depot was & is KB. My uncle worked there in the '60's. And his worked for 3rd Ave R'ways.
In those highschool days, I'd commute by the "Woodlawn-Jerome", on cozy Lo-V's until 1963 than R-types after that. I would also spring for a bus pass. A good friend of mine at that time, whose dad was an IRT motorman, did the same and we'd spend HOURS riding all over on those passes. And what exotic equipment too!
As I mentioned I live on the #2 line, a KB route. However, during the time I needed to be in school early, I noticed the first runs of the day, about 5a.m were handled by TDH 5104 and 5106's from Coliseum. Never knew why. Those same buses always ended up on the Bx1 later in the day.
If no one beats me to it, I'll try to post an address or two of some clubs that have trips, etc. You may even find that info at the E.R.A.meetings or in the pages of Bus World. Let me know.
By the way, I currently don't have internet at home; this is all from my office,and can write when I get some slow time to squeeze.
More reminiscing later.
Joe C.
Joe-
It is a shame that I never saw those busses in revenue service. I have looked at the pictures in Bustalk, and I see that some of these busses still were around in the early seventies.
I do have a faint recollection of seeing the "Jackie Gleason" type busses. On our trips into the city, I remember hearing and seeing these busses about twice. I remember they were rather noisy. Their motor sounded a lot like a school bus. Their shape and color were a stark contrast to the Fishbowls. What I never uderstood was why were there gates against the windows. You could hardly see inside. My dad tried explaining this to me, but I was a little to young to understand. It seems that these busses were retired at some point and were handed over to the department of corrections. They were used to transport prisoners from Rikers.
It would be nice to see some of the older busses used on nostalgic runs or used on anniversary celebrations like they do with the subways. The only chance you get to see them is at a parade (I have seen all the museum busses out at the Labor Day Parade)or at an event like Bus Fest. But I guess they want to keep these busses preserved and do not want to put a strain on the motors.
Until next time,
John
PBLG,
So, you have a name?? John. Fine. We are progressing.
I will definitely need to get you involved in the Metro NY Bus Assn. We are a growing group, that has been around since the '80's, I guess. We have trips, about 5 a year. Usually the first one, somewhere from March to April, is in the NY area, often using "vitage" or rare buses.
We travel around the city making stops and visiting bus companies. In August, we generally travel on a 3-4 day overnight outing; this year it will be Toronto.
I don't know where you are residing. Are you able to do Saturday trips? Does that appeal to you? We have a real good time; the guys are fun, off the wall, but that makes it all the better.
Joe
I agree with the memories as well.
Growing up, i used to love the Grumman 870's. I used to wait by Ulmer Park depot(where the buses came from) and wait for one to go into service so i could ride it. Sometimes, i would walk to the last stop of the B-3 route to get on it home. I rode on it during the blizzard of 1982 and it handled well. I was upset when they left service.
I did ride the occasional buses that NYC got from Washington. they wernt bad,but i missed the Grummans.
I never rode the hino or renault, and the RTS isnt bad but i also miss the GMC New Looks. In their heyday, GMC New looks used to run on weekends on the M86 route. The ones they used were the 6900's series, with express seats. They NEVER got scrathced while they were on this line.
Now all we got is memories. But i am wondering,why didnt MTA buy Gillig buses? LI bus has them, as well as HART BUS and Suffolk Transit.
Hi Simon,Glad you could join in. It is so good to see the 870 has a good following. The Metro Bus scenario was the best thing to ever happen to bus fans. Seeing all those GMC & Flx New Looks, some in DC Transit green. Yes, thanks to the Grumman problem, we ALL enjoyed something unusual. And when the 870's returned, it was awe-inspiring. They were beauties! Did you know one had rooftop ad wings?
Are you a member of MNYBA? see my post to PBLG.
Talk to you soon.
Joe C
the Grumman 870 with ad-wings i have seen in a article of Bus World Magazine.
I remember when the Grummans came out, they didnt have any graffiti on them(excpet for marker graffiti, but that was washed off right away). The last place i remember riding on themm was in Long Island. When i was in Chicago last year, they had Flexible Metro. Not the same of the grumman 870 but just as nice.
My memory now of the Grumman lives in my memories, and of Road Champs They make Grumman buses in ho scale, though they look like Flexible Metros. If anyone knows ho to buy a Grumman in ho scale(that doesnt have to be assembled) i would appreciate it.
By the way, if Flexible went out of business, how did Suffolk Transit get 30-ft versions of this model, and thet look so new?
Simon,
The Metros that Suffolk got are a few years old now and were built prior to Flxible's going out of business. They are 30 foot versions, by the way.
Living where I do, it is still nice to see & ride the Metros on Bee Line. Catch them where & while you can in NJ, or anywhere else.
Flxible had to have the best looking of all the new breed of buses. Smoothe clean lines that flowed the lenghth of the bus body, modern handrails, ceiling, no rivets, the first with a large destination sign, suspended seats. The Flx did it all, while all the others just copied.
Joe
I love the Gilligs that i see on LI Bus and Suffolk Transit(when it was called MSBA and i was taking bus excursions in Llong Island, i always loved getting a gillig. The Grummans that MSBA had were old(and if they had no air conditioning...wow..hot boxes). Why didn't the TA buy Gllig buses?
The same question can asked about the Neoplan.I remember around 84 or 85 that the city was testing it out of QV on the q88.I thought that was a nice bus:besides the Flexible Metro the DOT was testing arond the same time
Wayne -
It's good to hear about more memories of busses that are no longer with us.
The busses that pass in my neighborhood used to come out of Coliseum. Then in 1989, they opened up the Gun Hill Depot. I still would pass by the Coliseum depot to see the busses come in and out of there. From certain views, you could see the busses parked in the back side by side. When the fleet was more diverse as it is now, you could see Grummans, RTS's, and Fishbowls parked side-by-side. I have lived to regret not taking a picture of the old Coliseum before they tore it down.
If you could believe this, there were other bus enthusiasts in my class. This was about 5th/6th grade. We used to have "heated" discussions about which bus looked and ran better - the Grummans or the RTS's. I sided with the Grummans. Of course, our side had egg on our face when they were all pulled from service. A bunch of 10 year olds talking about busses! Strange, huh? I guess we couldn't talk about baseball and video games all the time, right?
If anyone has any memories of these busses and others, please join the discussion. Thanks.
PBLG & Wayne,
The 870's were the best! It was and is still the classiest looking city bus ever built. See how Gillig, Flyer and Orion have copied it? I believe the city acted harshly and irresponsibly when pulling the 870's out when one caught fire. That certainly was not the first bus to catch fire. My sources told me that GM was pissed at not getting the 1000 bus order and RTS sales were drooping already. Strange, eh, that shortly after the 870's were yanked RTS's were there! HAve you ever seen a bus order filled so fast?
Also odd was that that the private operators kept their 870's going many years after that. When GAC rebuilt and resold them they went everywhere; NJT got great use out of them.
Joe
Joe -
I am an active fan of busses (and trains). I have been fascinated by busses since I was a kid.
It all started with the fishbowls in the seventies. I was really young back then, but I remember being fascinated by the way not all the fishbowls looked alike. I noticed even back then that the windshields were different and the exhaust pipe was located in different spots. The colors on the busses went from green to two-tone blue and then to white and blue.
The fascination magnified when I first saw a Grumman 870. I was only 10 at the time. I used to draw busses all the time in my past time. I would also take pictures with a cheap camera I had won at the school bazaar. I even collected newspaper clippings about the articles that ran everyday about the Grummans and RTS's. At the time, there was the whole Grumman A-frame issue, and how the RTS's were the rivals of the Grumman. I even have the articles that ran about the Hino and the Renault and the M.A.N. which NYC tested out at the time.
As the years went on, as I took the busses to school and then to work, I was always paying attention to the type of bus I rode. After I learned how to drive, I took the bus less, but I still followed the news on busses. I remember seeing an Orion in the City for the
Yes, those were the good old days of Club Transportation, Westchester Street Transit, Libery Lines/Riverdale Transit etc. Their fishbowls were great (and fast), especially those T8H-5306/5308A's. Later they rec'd some second hand TDH-5303's.
Wayne
Heres the roster for Avenue B and East Broadway Transit Company's New Look GMs
year: 1967
number: 606-610
model: TDH 4519
serial #: 1364-1368
year: 1968
number: 611-615
model: T6H 4521A
serial #: 074-078
year: 1970
number: 616-620
model: T6H 4521A
serial #: 540-544
year: 1971
number: 621-625
model: T6H 4521A
serial #: 809-813
year: 1972
number: 626-630
model: T8H 5308A
serial #: 046-050
year: 1976
number: 631-635
model: T8H 5308A
serial #: 335-339
year: 1960 (acquired in 1969)
number: 507-510
model: TDH 5301
serial #: 929-932
ex Green Bus Lines
year: 1960 (acquired in 1976)
number: 511-519
model: TDH 5302
serial #: 273, 286, 291, 293, 299, 279, 280, 282, 294
ex Rochester RTA
Heres the roster for Avenue B and East Broadway Transit Company's New Look GMs
year: 1967
number: 606-610
model: TDH 4519
serial #: 1364-1368
year: 1968
number: 611-615
model: T6H 4521A
serial #: 074-078
year: 1970
number: 616-620
model: T6H 4521A
serial #: 540-544
year: 1971
number: 621-625
model: T6H 4521A
serial #: 809-813
year: 1972
number: 626-630
model: T8H 5308A
serial #: 046-050
year: 1976
number: 631-635
model: T8H 5308A
serial #: 335-339
year: 1960 (acquired in 1969)
number: 507-510
model: TDH 5301
serial #: 929-932
ex Green Bus Lines
year: 1960 (acquired in 1976)
number: 511-519
model: TDH 5302
serial #: 273, 286, 291, 293, 299, 279, 280, 282, 294
ex Rochester RTA
Does anyone have routing Details---complete details of the M7 M8 M9===original routings
The M 7 if I remember correctly was not a Ave B Bus. The M-9 if I remember ran from it s present terminal at Union Square, the same as now but terminated at Chatham Sq. The 8 Was A Crosstown on Grand St from The East River to West Broadway. But that was a whie back and maybe wrong
What other routes did AB&EB run?
How long ago was the old M8 eliminated to make way for the new M8?
Ave B had just 2 routes the M 8 and 9. Most likely the M 8-8 th St Xtown used to be the 13(No M juist 13,) before the big re numbering back in the 70s. A few bus lines were eliminated back in the 70s on the lower East Side, The 12 Spring & Delancy X Crosstown, The Ridge and Pitt line under the Willy B. The Grand St X Town Also there was a Former Surface Bus I don t remember the number, but it started at the W 42nds St Pier, went 42nd to 11th Ave, Up 11th and terminated either at 72nd or 96th St Stations IRT.
The Ave B did have a M7 which is similiar to todays X90 X92 before it was changed from the 110St-5Av terminus. The M8 and M9 were acquired in 1980 just before the strike. The M8 was discontinued about 1984 and the M14 Av A bus was extended to Grand and FDR Drive.
As a boy I remember some M14 Av A taking Pitt St from Grand to Delancey and then turning right on Clinton St. A also barely remember the M12 taking recovery time on Delancey and Columbia St.
The M-8 Grand Street Crosstown was discontinued by the TA in the spring of 1987 which was a mistake.
Besides the M7 express route,the M8 Grand Street route and the M9 East Broadway route Avenue B also had routes that served the Race Tracks from the Lower East Side. After Ave B went out of business in 1980 these routes were taken over by Walters Transit Corp which also went out of business in the mid-80's (Not Sure of theDate)
When the M8 was dropped in the 80's West Side ridership was low and the two buses on the line would be stuck together in traffic at the Holland tunnel area.
However the area of the Lower East Side and West of it have seen a increase in business and people and perhaps a second look should be taken at creating a hybrid Grand St/Delancey St crosstown. Or even looking into creating a true Houstan Street crosstown bus.
The x90 route was also owned by ABEB.
While this may be a little off this thread's topic, I remember that AB&EB used to have a route that ran to Yonkers Raceway in the late 60's. I seem to remeber that they ran Mack's on this run. Since I was too young to go to the track I never rode those buses and don't know if they were in a "Suburban Configuration" or were simple line buses. I remember the route signs saying simply "Yonkers".
Don't know if they ran to Roosevelt Raceway when that track was in session alternating with Yonkers.
Probably charters or specials
I am curious if anyone knows when the Grumman 870 buses arrived and
where each bus was assugned to. In my memory, i remember seeing 200's
and some 400's at Ulmer Park, but i'm not sure. Also saw some PA
series runnig there too. If u can post a list of what depots had them
and the bus numbers they had,id appreciate it.
When the Grumman 870's arrived they originally assigned to nearly all depots. Those left out were FI, XT, OHS and WF. Sometime in 1982 they started making Grumman 870 and RTS depots. Yes, these were the first "PA" buses at NYCTA. They were numbered from PA1-PA175. The high 400/500 and most 800/900 had wheelchair lifts.
Unfortunately, I don't know which depots had which buses. I was pretty young and I lived in OA territory, but I do remember the Bronx 870's. Other depots I remember partial 870 assignments.
KB 721-770, PA140-PA159, 869-890
COL 771-809, PA160-PA175, 891-910
Wayne
Speaking of the PA numbered busses, I remember seeing those numbers and the blurb that ran underneath the number when I was young. It read something like "This bus was bought by the Port Authority and leased to NYC TA" or something like that.
Why were busses leased/purchased this way? Was it due to a financial crisis at the time? I am curious because all busses that have been purchased for the last 10-15 years don't seem to labeled that way anymore. Thanks.
QUESTION. What happened to the TA 870 busses and are there any more leased equipment around?[like the GMC/RTS].
The Grumman 870s were removed from service in February 1984 and were stored for a while at the Brooklyn Army Terminal. General Automotive (which had purchased Flxible from Grumman around 1982) bought the buses back from NYC Transit and sold them. Most went to NJ Transit. Some of the others went to Pioneer Valley TA in Massachusetts. NYC Transit Grumman 236 is still on NYCT property, as a museum bus.
David
Some also went to Cincinnati.
The NJ Grummans are still around, although the majority of them are in the process of being replaced by new RTS buses.
The last "PA" buses in the NYCTA fleet are part of the 1986 GM RTS-06 group. PA4300 to Approx PA4333 were originally assinged to Kingsbridge depot.
Wayne
The 870's for PVTA were intended for Ave B, but that operation folded. These were 96 inches wide. A number of OA/TA 870's went to Puerto Rico too.
Joe C
They did the same thing in the 70s in LA at the old RTD. The sign on the bottom of the bus said. This bus is owned by Whatever Bank, and leased to the Southern Calif, Rapid Transit District. Probably cheaper to lease the bus then buy it back then.
up had pa1-pa50 also 256-321/ nycta was having a financial crisis and pa helped them out.
Fresh Pond's original order of Grumman 870's were 322-342 and then PA 71 -PA77. I have the whole list of Grummans that were assigned to FP from start to finish.
Does anyone know if the TA has decided to buy any of the new models[METRO-BUS]any time soon in the future?
As in Flxible Metro? NYCT ordered 50 in 1995, but Flxible went belly-up before they could be delivered. The order was shifted to BIA, which delivered 50 Orion Vs (631-680) in 1996.
David
Flxible is out of business.
-Hank
In the late 1940s early 1950s NYCBOT(NYCTA) operated a series of demos before placing large orders.
They had the following in their fleet for evaluations:
builder: ACF
model: C-48
year: 1948-1950
fleet number: 2
(went to Chicago and repowered to propane)
builder: Twin Coach
model: 50S
year: 1948
fleet number: 3
builder: Twin Coach
model: ?
year: 1950
fleet number: 400
this was an articulated bus!!
builder: Mack
model: C50
year: ?
fleet number: 1?
builder: Yellow Coach/GMC
year: 1947-1948
model: TD 5401
fleet number: 2500
(this bus was borrowed from Fifth Avenue Coach after it was rebuilt one window shorter making it 40 feet long this let to the 400 bus order from GM for the model TDH 5101, unique to New York City)
In the 1970s, NYCTA operated a small fleet, very small, of Minibuses (powered by Dodge) in Manhattan.
These buses had destination signs that read "Garment Center" and billboard ads on the side that said: "Buyers Bus Loop"
The buses were painted two tone blue.
Their life span was very short. I heard they wound up at Con Edison for crew transportation.
Does anyone know the fleet numbers assigned to these buses? As well as their model numbers?
Page 15 of the 1974 MTA Annual Report has a picture of one. It has no number, and its builder's plate reads, "Minibus."
David
http://www.egroups.com/lists/NYCBUSNEWS
Due to poor response and people not getting involved,,I am bringing this site down
All postings will return back to Bus Talk and Subtalk
Finally
This silly arrangement comes to an end.
GOOD
and Leave your address please
______@_______
Thank you
Steve
Proposed Service Revision
Express Bus Routes X27 X28 X29
Battery Loop Elimination
All Buses will Exit the Tunnel and then proceed Northbound via Trinity Place
Planned Implementation
January 2000
----------------------------------------------------
Proposed Service Revision
Q48 Flushing Terminus Reroute
LaGuardia Bound Buses via Northbound on Main St frmo the Roosevelt Avenue Stand,,,Left on 39 Av,Left on Janet Place,and right on Roosevelt Avenue
Planned Implementation
January 2000
===================================================
Proposed Service Revision
M2 Sunday Limited
Increased Service to include Sundays ,,to a 7 day limited Service
--bet 10 AM and 6 PM
Planned Implementation
Sping 2000 ,when a re scheduling of the Fifth A/Madison Av corridor Bus Service is Implented
This afternoon, I was walking along 34th street when I noticed a M 34 pass by. I looked at it, and saw that the depot assignment was for the Hudson Pier, not WS. I thought that maybe this was a bus where the sticker was either ripped off, or never got pasted. But then a M16 came by with the Hudson Pier Logo. What's up? Is this b/c of the articulateds going to the M79-86. Which bus routes have been changed to Hudson Pier???
Thanks,
Clark Palicka
TrAnSiTiNfO
Chris: M34/16 went to Hudson Pier for M23 to West Side Depot because West Side can use Artiuclated for M23 in the future.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
RTS 4742 which was restored and made an express coach after being in a fire on a Fresh Pond line is now sitting in the dead yard here at Ulmer Park. It has a dead engine and is on its way back to East New York for repairs. I wonder if it'll ever come back?
In addition, 3160 (1st 4cyl. diesel with aluminum wheels I believe) is slowly being stripped. It is basically a spare parts bus now. On the outside, it is missing several panels on both sides of the bus as well as the engine door. Inside, several parts have been ripped out and there are a lot of wires hanging out of the drivers seat area and the back door. I took a few pictures of what is left of it and will post them when I get the film developed.
3160- I'm sad to hear that, wish I could've got pics of her when she was in service. Email those pics to me when you have the film developed, I'd like to see them.
4742- I think she'll ber back in service if she has coach seats on her. Her engine is probably acting up on her yet again. Probably smoking up- that's how she disappeared from service when she was at FP.
MM2000
are they planning to update the 1700's and 1800's express buses at
Ulmer Park, or they are staying in serivce? I see 1834 a lot and it
has scratches all over its windows. (AND THIS RUNS ON X28). Let me know if there are any plans to scrap or update the windows or the buses.
Probably not. Although these busses are still used a lot, don't count on having the windows fixed or replaced. It's not worth it anymore.
The problem is that these busses are used on the express one day, then thrown onto a local run the next. People usually destroy these busses on the local lines (Scratching windows and ripping up seats). Then, they're put back on to the express the next day. This happens with the 3800's, 4800's and 7038-7049.
Security is another problem. 4742 which had all new windows is now dead in the yard. All of a sudden it now has scratched windows in the back. This happens to the 92xx & 93xx. Some of them have ripped up seats and scratched windows. I was on 9278 last night and all the seats in the back were ripped. Its like that with other coaches as well. People can sneak into the bus during the night and wreck them. After all, the busses are parked in the street!
I wonder if this happens at YUK in Staten Island with the MCI's. If I remember right, their busses are parked in the street too.
what amazes me is that upon entering the city during the morning rush, you cans ee the express buses from Yukon looking clean while the ones from Ulmer Park look like they havent been washed in days. is this maitence fault? I mean, at least Ulmer Park has room to park their buses within the garage, while Yukkon has to park them in the street.This will sure be interesting if we get a snowstorm. what is the plan then for yukon buses?
fun fun fun as the beachboys used to sing for nyct has no plans should this occur. buses would be snowed in. as for security there is none at forest hill road but nyct is able to lock down engines. there is a guard at a kill rd. there has been little vandalism at either site.
The Busses at UP have not been washed in almost a week in a half due to the cold temperatures. Washing them and then parking them outside all night with temperatures in the single digits would freeze the windows up. Most of the express coaches are parked outside.
Its also nice to know that Staten Island makes sure that there is security watching over the MCI's. At least they won't be destroyed as fast as the RTS Coaches have been.
The Busses at UP have not been washed in almost a week in a half due to the cold temperatures. Washing them and then parking them outside all night with temperatures in the single digits would freeze the windows up. Most of the express coaches are parked outside.
Its also nice to know that Staten Island makes sure that there is security watching over the MCI's. At least they won't be destroyed as fast as the RTS Coaches have been.
Dear friends, does anyone know if the M 10 & or M20 are operated from split depots, or is all the work from Westside depot?
The M10 and M20 both operate out of westside.
Looked at the M-20 schedule at Penn Station. It seems service HAS BEEN
REDUCED from the old M-10 schedule south of Penn Station.
Typical MTA CUTS SERVICE when ridership increases
One thing I have NEVER figured out was the color-coded marker lights on the front of the MCI coaches running the BxM4C. I don't think the county ever published a guide for it. Anyone?
Joe C
I never figured them out either, but it and NYBS' Co-Op City route are my favorite express routes. BTW-There was once a BxM4D that went to Tarrytown.
Wayne
I was in Staten Island and rode on the S79,S59,S74 routes. All brand new 6000 series Orions with padded seats. The buses ran great and were in supurb condition.
How come Yukon got so many new buses? I guess since those routes aren't as hard on the buses as elsewhere in the city.
I guess all of Yukon's old ones are now at Stengal, and they look at lot worse than when I saw them at Yukon last year.
At Yukon, the only older Orions there are the 115-154 series. Castleton has 155-172 and 471-504. My question is when is 505-515 from CS leaving to go to CAS?
MM2000
Are these really padded or just upholstered?
Just upholstered. The idea being they can't be scratched. The pad is basically a 1' square of industrial carpeting.
-Hank
All nine ex-NYCTA RTS buses have been officially retired, fareboxes removed and declared scrap. Some have already been taken to the Zahn's Graveyard, a few others remain at the Mitchel Field Depot while fluids are removed and scrap tires installed prior to their being towed to Zahn's. Theses buses formed the reserve fleet, but were very undependable and were used only on rare occasions. New CNG high-floor Orions are scheduled to start arriving later this year.
Where is Zahn's?
Attention All Bustalkers: Due to schooling, I will be leaving TransiTalk as of tomorrow, 1-20-Y2K. Feel free to email me.
MM2000
Due to the leaving of two staff members, Gary Chatterton (For whatever reasons) and Jason Benedetto (Which is moving to become a cop), pictures by these two will be droped immediately.
Trevor
I bet it had something to do with your stank attitude. Just look at some of your posts here on bus talk. I wouldnt be surprised if you will be running TransiTalk by yourself soon. I hope the remaining staff finally wakes up and sees the real Trevor Logan. DaShawn, Kevin and Jason need to open their eyes and leave!!!! I hope this post burns you.
To be perfectly honest with you. It doesn't! I had TransiTALK by myself when it first began. So you just wasted you time trying to piss me off.
God Loves you too!
Trevor
Trying to get me started is a waste of post and a waste of yours and my time, you got something personally to say:
My phone# is 201-313-0332
Me e-mail is MTABoy200@cs.com or surface__transit@hotmail.com
I work at 888 7th Avenue 25th Floor
My Address is 270 Knox Avenue, 2nd Floor, Cliffside Park, NJ
contact me via one of those. Otherwise, get over it becuase there was no need for that.
Peace and Blessings
Trevor Logan
You are not as well liked as you may think you are. Dont wish to hard cause it may actually come true. I have a deal for your remaining staff that they will not be able to refuse. Test me LITLLE MAN!!!!!!!........Remember that one?..now your burning..
No I'm not burning. Keep trying though!
Trevor
Im not one to give up.. So little man, what new bus did you see or ride today that nobody has seen before? I found out the viking was never in service like you posted once on here before. You are full of crap. Nothing but a bs story teller. Need i say more?? Are you burning??? Ill really blow up your spot LITTLE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually, NO! Your still not making me mad! No you didn't blow up my spot because not only can I tell you I saw the viking I can give you details about it so that when you see it, you can be like..........well anyways. Keep posting because I have nothing more to say to you! I better than that to feed into your mess
Trevor
Little Man this is all i have to say:
We dont like you here. Sure there is a bunch on here that kisses your ass but i for one will not. You are a liar and a story teller. That stuff is gonna get you in trouble one day!!! Believe that!!!!!
Ok Whatever!
Trevor
Listen up real close "Homes". I have known Trevor and I've met him at one of the UTC meetings. He is a really really nice guy and basically buses are a good part of his life. He doesn't have an attitude at all. He is excited when new stuff comes on the way and he doesn't lie at all, in fact I asked my friend on the M7 and he said that he couldn't wait for the hybrids to come to MCH. So there, take that as a pie in your face!
Peace Out
-Clayton
Why don't you go screw yourself. I've personally never met Trevor but he seems like a very nice guy. It seems that his posts inform us about what's happening, and I've never personally remember him lying about a specific thing. I think your just trying to get something started with him. Enough with the comments. Let's talk about what we came to talk about which is buses
Clark
Boys! boys! boys! Enough of this fighting now. Come on in and sit with Opie and Andy, and I'll bake some pies.
[Seriously, Trevor's grammar may not be the best but he enjoys what he is doing here, which is what any hobby or interest is about. So 'Homes', no pie for you. And cool off a bit, you are the one who looks foolish here, not Trevor}
Yeah.....You announced at the UTC that you SAW & RODE the R-110B on the Canarsie line. WELL THE R 110B NEVER LEFT 207TH STREET YARD HAT WEEK. (From the yardmaster, ME) I didn't say anything there to embarass you. But, STOP LYING
Come on children grow up!!!! Theres a place for these kinds of posts. He gave you his phone # etc so call him if your a real man or woman. We dont need to be reading this mess on Bus Talk. Im sure the rest of the viewers will agree.
Thank You Kevin. Back to Buses!
Trevor
Not a Bus Post. BUT I did get 10 photos of the R-142As being delivered tonight in New Jersey!
"You are not as well liked as you may think you are."
Homes, mabye he's not like by YOU.
Although, I think I should take your little phrase and reverse it. Only one person like you. YOU.
Trevor, payback is a b*tch!!!!
Please take this diatribe to e-mail. It adds nothing to the appreciation the rest of us have for buses.
Thank you.
David
As you may notice below, Mr. Homes has taken shots at me.
Basically I don't have to time nor patients to deal with it. I am better that to feed into that mess.
Its better that I stated as my post title, "If you like me, you like me. If you don't, you don't!" I'm not here to be the top man of BT. I'm here to post bus information that I see and get straight from the TA and no other source.
Whether you belive me or not, its your own decision.
Have a blessed evening.
Trevor Logan
When you say patients, do you mean those under your care?
No, I mean have patients to feed into the garbage that Holmes and Mr. Casey tried to start today.
I always have patients, just not for bullcrap.
Trevor
Um, since I didn't start this, I'm just going to but in. You're not saying you feed patients garbage, you're saying you have no patience for garbage, right?
-Hank
(No Offense Intended, Trevor.)
Correct Hank! Thanks
Trevor--- I have had major problems with the style
in which things have been said and done here. There
have been a couple of really disturbing flaming
incidents here that really angered me.
When I scanned the board this morning and saw the
string of posts, I said here we go again. I was
very pleasantly surprised when you did not rise to
the taunting you received You stayed cool, and that
was very cool. In that way, you honored your love
of transit and your hard work in sharing that love
with others. You walked and talked in God's good
graces last night. May we all continue to do so.
People,
can we stop this bickering,,,before we loose Bus Talk and Subtalk ---totally
Thanks
Steve
I couldn't agree with you more, FDNY! I have left TransiTalk, if this bickering continues, I'm gonna leave from here also and right now I don't want that to happen. SO OTHERS, TREVOR, MR CASEY, HOMES: THIS MESSAGE IS FOR YOU: EITHER STOP PUTTING THESE STUPID ANNOYING ARGUMENTIVE POSTS OR I WILL LEAVE THIS SITE FOR GOOD AND I BELIEVE I Have support of others right berhind me. AND BY THE WAY, GROW UP! YOU GUYS ACT LIKE CHILDREN IN GRAMMAR SCHOOL!
MM2000
I am chartering a Fishbowl for a day (5-8 hours) of riding a classic new look in the spring. Any suggestions on photo stops or places to go?? I have three buses in mind. E-Mail me for info.
Have you any particular favorite spots? One good place in Manhattan is near Grant's tomb. A ride on Moshulu Pkwy is worth the effort, as would be Pelham Pkwy & Pelham Bay.
Keep us informed; I'm interested.
Joe C
Mine is Queens Blvd at Rush Hour in both AM and PM hours. If you go by Queens Center, you see just about everything from Queens there, QS, CTC, GL, COMMAND, JBL, MTA-JAM, MTA-QV, MTA-FP and even once in a while a MTA from CS Shows up around there.
MM2000
Just want to say that despite one or two folks on here claiming to know everything and everyone, you do have folks in here that work for NYC transit department of buses like myself, and others who know more.
Cut the crap and lets have fun on this BBS before we lose it.
Ring Ring Ring ....
Fernando my friend I haven't been answering "crank's" call (post).
Mr t__:^)
STOP PUTTING ANNOYING POSTS HERE Otherwise, I'll leave here too.
MM2000
so many people got a answer, but didn't get it. Here is the answer
i was looking for:
The articulated bus was a Neoplan. It operated in 1983-1984. It was
tested on the X13 route(now the X1) and operated out of Yukon Depot
in Staten Island. It wasnt around long.
The next articulated came also from Neoplan, and was tested on the
M15 at 126th Street and the S61 in Staten Island(alwyas saw it, never rode on it).
Thanks to everyone here who answered my questions.
This roster is from 1982
NYCTA DEPOTS
126 ST
PA1-PA5
PA92-PA96
381-392
546-552
FRESH POND
PA6-PA23
PA70-PA85
209-229
322-342
ULMER PARK
PA24-PA31
256-321
401-435
453-502
542-552
CASTLETON
PA32-PA69
201-208
436-452
553-565
QUEENS VILLAGE
199*
PA86-PA91
230-255
343-380
393-400
*= originally numbered 100 when used as a demo built in 1978
all buses are model 53102-6-1 built by Grumman Flxible in 1980
numbers 553-565 are model 53096-8-1 purchased originally for Avenue B and East Broadway Transit Company
What happend to ENY and FLU they had a fair amount of Grummans also
Please note that these rosters are from 1982!!
Both the TA and OA move their buses around quite a bit!!
Also if I remember corrctly FP had some of the w/c lift Grummans as well (the 500's)
This roster is from 1982
54 STREET
PA97-PA130
546-552*
601-692
811-832
COLISEUM
PA138-PA175
710-810
870-910
AMSTERDAM
693-709
833-869
all buses were model 53102-6-1 built by Grumman Flxible in 1980
#631 had bat wings
#sPA131-137 were loaned to NYCTA and assigned to Fresh Pond
*were loaned to MaBSTOA by NYCTA
I'LL BE BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MM2000
Trevor, it didn't take you very long to report my dismissal from TransiTalk. I thought that you WEREN'T gonna update for a few weeks? Hmmmm?! What's up with that?
MM2000
These are the serial numbers for the 870s that NYCTA and MaBSTOA operated. . .
year: 1978
model: 53102-6-1 "870"
builder: Grumman Flxible
fleet #: 199*
serial #: 91179
originally numbered 100 when operated as a demo by NYCTA/MaBSTOA
year: 1980
model: 53102-6-1 "870"
builder: Grumman Flxible
fleet #: 201-452
serial #: 91857-92108
fleet #: 601-810
serial #: 92109-92318
#631 was the only 870 with bat wings
fleet #: PA1-PA175
serial #: 92319-92493
fleet #: 453-552
serial #: 92494-92593
fleet #: 811-910
serial #: 92594-92693
year: 1980
model: 53096-8-1 "870"
builder: Grumman Flxible
fleet #: 553-565
serial #: 92857-92869
this group was originally purchased for Avenue B and East Broadway Transit Company but delievered to NYCTA (NOT MaBSTOA!)
Okay All,
I think it's about time BusTalk got housecleaned.
I realize some legit posts are now gone but I think everyone should reflect on the situation and keep in mind that personal attacks and flamage just makes the place inhospitable to all.
If you feel the urge to get out of hand, just sit back and relax, reconsider, and maybe get one of those hand excersize things to play with instead. :-)
Please, lets keep this board civil. If it gets out of hand again, posting will be suspended.
Thanks,
Dave
Let me be the first to post a new message.
Welcome back, folks
JOe
Welcome back. Let me reask the question from earlier. see if you can answer it.
Gillig buses operate within Long Island and Suffolk County. On my bus trips to Long Island, i always wish to ride a Gillig(i miss the Grummans though, but if nmot air conditioning, they had no windows to open).
I want to know whay didnt MTA order Gillig buses? They run well in Long Island and i was on one in Las Vegas, and the wheelchair is in the front door. Was it money, or they didn't offer a test model here? please help me.
The best I can answer is by using the OLD saying: "One man's meat is another's poison". For one thing, MSBA always seemed to hit off on its own. The bcity gets opening windows on the 870's, MSBA does not. The city gets RTS's, MSBA does not. MSBA gets jack-knife doors on the Orions, the city gets standard plug doors. Another reason I think is Gillig could not gear up for such large orders. Another is thatMSBA wasn't 100% happy with Gilligs. They have already been rebuilt. I also believe Gillig didn't wish to commit to a bus that may not have held up on the NYC streets, as opposed to Nassau. Realize too that Gillig didn't supply too many buses in this part of the country, period!
Joe C
thanks for the help. maybe when MTA-LI Bus gets the low floor Orion's this year, they will look somewhat like the flyer we got now. any ideas what buses thee will replace once the low floor arrive at LI bus?
The LI Bus Gilligs are the oldest buses they have, so it's likely those will be the first to go when new equipment arrives. I've seen info indicating that LI Bus is getting low-floor Orions, but Joe Saita (who drives for LI Bus) indicated in a now-gone post yesterday that LI Bus was getting HIGH FLOOR Orions later this year. Perhaps they are getting some of each?
The Gillig Phantom is a genuine piece of garbage. As a rider, the bus rides like a school bus, has lousy acceleration and a very loud engine. And in the summer it's hot in there because the A/C is poor and always shuts down on long trips.
On some of the hills we have on the N21, whenever we have a Gillig we can barely make it up the hill.
I can't wait till all the Gilligs are gone and replaced by Orions.
I do feel LI Bus should hold onto it's diesel Orions, they are still in good shape and run great.
John, I have some bad news and some good news. Talking to a colleague at LI Bus yesterday he confirmed that they are in fact getting some new equipment, but it's being added to the current fleet, so you'll have to put up with the Phantoms a while longer.
Mr t__:^)
Most of the LI Gilligs were recently rebuilt with CATERPILLAR engines because the original 6V92TA's were soooo worn out.
No wonder those things sound like trucks!
I think the reason you don't see Gillig buses with NY MTA isthe same reason you don't see them in Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, or many other large cities. Basically, the only large city with Gilligs that can think of is Seattle.
The reason? I think the cities see that the Gillig buses will NOT stand up to the extremely heavy loads that most cities put their buses through.
I drive transit buses, and among our fleet is a good number of Gilligs. They just do NOT seem to be built as strong as the GM/TMC/Nova RTS's or the Flxible Metro buses. We are running 20 year old RTS's that are still as strong as ever. Yet all of our 1983 Gilligs were retired and sold off the moment they hit 14 years old back in 1997!
Steve,
Imagine how Gillig must have felt when the lost several Bay Area orders, like to New Flyer and Neoplan?? Oooo, that smarts!!
Joe C
yeah Gillig lost AC Transit in Oakland,CA a major customer of theres to North American Bus Industries. Which BTW there buses suck. they
are not even a year old and the brakes are failing left and right
almost half of the richmond division's NABI's were road called this
month
A minor nit: By your own observation, the MTA DID order Gilligs. Don't forget that Long Island Bus is part of MTA, whether Nassau County wants it to be or not. (Actually, Nassau County is responsible for the service. MTA, through LIB, is merely a contract carrier.)
Therefore, NYCT and LIB order buses individually. One would presume that each prefers specific makes and models for its own reasons.
LI Bus has always been independent of MTA/TA influence in ordering buses. When the TA was having its initial problems with the Grumman 870's, MSBA went full speed ahead with its order for 125 of them (750-799 and 925-999). Even when Gunn and the TA swore off the 870's and grounded them for good, MSBA went ahead and ordered around 35 Flexible Metro's (1001-103?). And, of course, MSBA never ordered RTS's when that was all that the TA was ordering for so many years.
LI Bus had 33 Flxible Metro's: 1001-1033.
According to Flxible Corporation production records, they had 34 of them.
PA1000 - PA1032 (that's 33 right there) were serials
ED095878 through ED095910.
And along came PA1033 with a serial of ED096115.
All built 1984 according to the production list.
Why is the message counter up around 11000? Shouldn't it have gone back to 1?
-Hank
My guess is that Dave erased all the posts that were up here. He deleted a few on SubTalk because someone claimed they were Jack Leary, Jr., GM of SEPTA, and the MFL collasped. That and every reply was deleted, but the numbers didn't change.
Just a guess, Dave may have a better one.
Well, the board has a limit of 5000 messages, once that limit is reached then the oldest post is deleted with each new post. The numbers all stay the same anyway.
Actually, Dave has explained to me what goes on.
-Hank
If anybody knows where is bus #9900. It was at Manhattanville. A driver there said it went to LIC for some repairs a couple a months ago and he said he hasn't seen it since. Also 9101 was totaled. Does anyone have info of where the aciident happened and how
#9101 was assigned to Ulmer Park and i read on the UTC roster that it is beyond repairs(though i cant understand what happened).
as with #9900, i never saw it in serivce, though i wish i did.
I did see it leave the Manhattanville depot months backs with the M3 destination sign but i never saw it actually in passenger service
I saw 9900 leave the Manhatttanville depot months back with the M3 destination sign but not actually in passenger service
I saw 9900 leave the Manhatttanville depot months back with the M3 destination sign but not actually in passenger service. Also I never knew the fix buses in LIC
I saw 9900 leave the Manhatttanville depot months back with the M3 destination sign but not actually in passenger service. Also I never knew the fix buses in LIC
WOW!Sorry to hear about 9101.I just drove that bus tuesday night
on the B4.What happened and when and where?
ANDY/UP
must have been recently. i do remember 9101 being out of service and seeing it say on the utc roster it was scrapped. apparently i was mistaken.
by the way: love the paint job on #9333. looks really good.
p.p.s I see on the roster you guy have #4630,#4643,#4710 and #4865. Are these all dead buses or are they going in service?
Here is the real deal on 9101 and 9900. Bus 9101 was in an accident last spring, but was repaired and returned to service by the end of the summer. It was not totaled.
Bus 9900 was returned to NovaBus last summer. It has since gone to another transit operator. I am not sure where though.
9900 was returned to NovaBus as you said and I think it went to Boston for testing. Not sure but I remember hearing it somewhere.
Peace Out
-CLayton
Alas,
the memories I wrote about are gone.
But I do have a new piece of nostalgia. And it fits in with the snow falling outside as I write this.
In the early to mid seventies, I recall that the "Fishbowls" that ran in the Bronx had chains put on the rear tires during a snow storm.
Since then, I have never seen them put on anymore busses. Is it because busses have an improved traction system? Or is it because chains wear the road asphalt out?
And on a similar subject. Do the NYC Transit busses come with enhanced traction control, four wheel drive, or anti-lock brakes? They seem to perform rather well in the snow.
Thanks
John
I hope the snow is not as bad as it was 4 years ago(remember the blizzard of 96?) And how do they prepare buses for night time when streets turn to ice. I havent seen buses with chains in a long time. How do the buses still run in icy streets.
Good luck to all drivers working today. I'm at owrk and don't have to drive in this at all.
On the console, I heard the dispatcher or someone saying br careful when you open front doors, kids are throwing snowballs in.
NYCTA BUSES ARE NOT EQUIPPED WITH FOUR WHEEL DRIVE OR ANTI LOCK BRAKES.DRIVING ON ICE IS DIFFICULT, BUSES DON'T LIKE TO STOP THEY LIKE TO SLIDE TO THE RIGHT TOWARDS PARKED CARS AND PEOPLE STANDING IN THE STREET.
They used to use chains around here in Pgh also. They phased that out in this area when the sanders on the buses became more dependable but I don't know if NYC buses have sanders on them.
We've had sanders since before PAT took over in 64 but they usually stopped working within a year of the bus going in service. They work pretty good now and don't require near as much maintenance. I do think they still have a few that they chain up at the start of winter and they sit till needed for the real hilly routes.
RDChilds
nyct mci buses are equipped with antilock brakes and i believe some other newer model buses may also have this feature.(perhaps someone here knows about the new flyers.) however they still skid on ice and are only as good as the drivers who operate them.
The big thing to be concerned with is driving the artics. As I understand it, the joint is 'active' in that it can lock up to prevent fishtailing. The engine and drive axle are in the tail section.
On Staten Island, they will usually shut down the s60 (Grymes Hill Shuttle) and reroute the s42 due to the conditions on the steep hills they run on.
-Hank
Yes the New Flyer Galaxy D60's on the 99/2000(52xx-54xx) order are equipped with ABS as well as the 98/99 (93xx,94xx,95xx,96xx,49xx,50xx,51xx,52xx) series RTS's. You can tell the buses equipped with ABS during the "Engine Start" process. There is an Air pumping sound that is heard for example 4 times on an RTS and 6 times on a New Flyer D60. Also air start is no longer used on the newer units, it has been replaced with electric start. Hope this helps.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Is air start that high pitched wizzing sound (like an air compressor sound) that the bus makes before when it is being started up?
Yep.
After having to deal with some rather stubborn starting buses, air starters became a favorite of mine. Most times they fire over first shot even on extremely cold days.
RDChilds
The 9300's express coaches I drive do not have ABS brakes.
would u know how many of the 3800's and 4800's you guys recieved from Yukon and Castleton and willl these buses get you to remove the 1700's and 1800's off the express line?
I believe we got 12 of the 4800s and around 10 of the 3800s and about 15 of the Local Busses made into coaches. There are 8 1700/1800 busses left and as far as them being removed, I don't see it unless more 4800s come in.
The 1700s/1800s are much better to drive and seem more reliable than the 3800s. Every day, I see one broken down. They may look somewhat better, but looks are decieving.
1846 1815 1855 are pretty decent buses
1855 I thought was in shot shape when I rode her on Q59 when she was there at FP. The seats were falling apart and there was graffiti all over the place. The back doors were stuck when I was trying to get out and the Stop Requested sugn barely lit up. She was slow, however, she looked good exterior wise.
MM2000
From my point of view the operator,It was not a bad driving bus. I don't want to drive it every day but once in a while is OK
I grew up in Boston, and remember that the MBTA would always put chains on the older buses (at the time, these were GMC TDH-5301/5302/5303's from the early 1960's). The explanation given to me at the time by a driver was that these buses had old tires that were pretty worn, since the buses were only operated during rush hours, and that the chains were necessary to give the buses traction in the snow. I guess the MBTA now keeps better tires on its fleet, because I haven't seen tire chains used there in many years.
Re: Hank's note regarding the s60 and s42 being re-routed in bad weather - both the MBTA in Boston and Centro in Syracuse, NY have designated 'snow routes', which indicate any reroutes that will take place on hilly routes or those which travel down narrow streets when there is a lot of snow and/or ice. Centro prints this information in public timetables, and local radio stations also broadcast when snow routes are in effect. I'm sure similar winter reroutes take place in most northeastern cities.
- Jim (RailBus)
This is incredible! I've counted 14 responses to the original posting, all having absolutely nothing to do with the original question! This happens too often in both BusTalk & SubTalk..... The RTS and its' similar cousins of the late 1900's are all a hunk of fiberglass and plastic. If you put chains on the rear wheels the fiberglass and plastic will crack. I remember back in 1/96, Fresh Pond had a few Fishbowl Blitz buses on their last legs. They were used non-stop after the January storm since they were able to tolerate chains. The drivers begged for them! They handled well in the snow. In fact most of the fishbowls (except the 8000 wing-buses) handled well in the ice and snow. Same with the old looks from the 50's. Todays newer RTS buses, I'm told, slide quite easily. The older RTS handle better in the ice & snow. But nothing like the old "tanks".
Its not surprising about the fishbowls with the tire chains, that bus can take a beating and keep going!
MTA Hybrid Man aka Trevor Logan
Does MaBSTOA still exist? I remember that at one time they had their own 'OA' uniform emblems and seemed to exist as a somewhat separate entity from the TA. When did this change?
I don't know when the change over took place from the OA. But MaBSTOA is still around and kicking strong
I don't know the exact date either, but all new buses since 1984 (until 1994) have had the New York City Transit Authority decals on them (including those at MABSTOA). I think the OA uniform patches (as well as the OA logo on some of the buses) have been gone longer than that.
Wayne
MaBSTOA been since March 14, 1962 & some of them still using old uniform with M logo. I heard some driver don't like new uniform & some of them like old uniform. Some of oldest buses still have originally M logo with new logo & some subway cars too. I have a pictures of GMC-RTS #3189 have originally M logo with new MTA logo. Any way i don't like new MTA logo but i like originally M logo.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
What happened to the logo they had with a simple M in a blue circle, which was used briefly until the 1993 change?
I was referring to the "OA" logos not the blue/light blue M which later appeared on all TA/OA buses (and uniforms) until this newfangled MTA-NYCT thing started. I remember many of the TDH-5303's with Bus-O-Ramas had a "OA" logo. I believe the O was red and the A was blue or vice versa. I beleive these were replaced with the MTA's "M" logo when these buses received the two tone blue paint scheme. I vaguely remember the B/O also had the "OA" patch on their uniform too.
Wayne
I got a question for you Wayne when this "M" logo replace "OA" logo? I know "M" logo start around 1970 replace "OA" logo until 1995 or 1996 replace with "MTA" logo but i still see "M" logo on the buses & some driver still wearing old uniform. My father don't like new "MTA" logo because it doesn't look good & he like the "M" logo. Last week i saw some R62A still have "M" logo & i thought all subway cars have "MTA" logo.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
I think you're right. I think they started replacing the "OA" logo with the "M" sometime around 1970 - and I suspect that a few buses managed to keep the "OA" logo a bit longer. I only remember seeing the "OA" logo in TDH-5303 with Bus-O-Rama signs. I don't know for sure, but I beleive they started replacing the "OA" logos with "M" logos when the buses rec'd the two-tone blue paint job scheme.
I also don't like this new MTA logo. I could still get used to the logo, but those new agency names sound ridiculous to me.
Wayne
Let me apologize in advance for any ruffled feathers.
In the beginning, MABSTOA had some semblance of reality. It had been created as a Non-Civil-Service subsidiary of TA (for the benefit of Fifth Avenue Coach employees who would have been ineligible to work under civil service rules), in the hope that it might eventually be sold. Thus, a bus or a box of paper could not be moved from TA to OA or vice versa without controversy.
These days, MABSTOA has degenerated into nothing more than a legal fiction - a bookkeeping fantasy, if you will. No buyer will ever be found (or sought). Buses (all of which are registered to TA) get moved around right and left. Non-operating employees mix and match in a single office, and sometimes switch authorities.
In regards to TA/OA buses moving around - I fully agree with you. Prior to the 1980 buses simply did not cross the TA/OA line. Sometime around 1980 Coliseum depot had rec'd a bunch of TA TDH-5301's and that seemed to be the beginning of a new era in which TA buses transfer to OA depots and vice versa.
Wayne
OK, let me see if I've got this straight - city bus service in the five boroughs of NYC is organized as follows (I know this is a gross oversimplification, but bear with me on this):
* MaBSTOA is an affiliate of the MTA and operates most routes in Manhattan and the Bronx, using buses painted 'MTA New York City Bus'.
* NYCTA is also an affiliate of the MTA and operates the bus routes in Brooklyn and Staten Island, and some routes in Queens, Manhattan and the Bronx, also with buses painted as 'MTA New York City Bus'.
* Remaining Queens bus routes are operated by various independent bus companies (Quuens Transit, Green Bus, Triboro, etc.) under subsidy of the city Department of Transportation, using buses painted for each operating company which are financed by the city/state.
All routes are considered 'MTA New York City Bus' routes and appear on MTA's bus maps, regardless of who operates the service. Each of the above entities employs its own drivers and maintenance personnel, who work for it and do not cross over to any other operator (i.e., MaBSTOA drivers do not bid on TA routes, etc.). However, some office personnel (and managers?) may cross over between MaBSTOA and TA.
Is this correct?
- Jim (RailBus)
I'll take a crack at it. You're on the right track.
MABSTOA is a NYCTA (now MTA-NYCT) subsidiary and it provides bus service in The Bronx and most of Manhattan. NYCTA provides bus service in the other boroughs plus one depot in Manhattan.
MABSTOA is only used internally (and by bus buffs) so it's correct to identify all TA/OA routes as MTA-NYCT. I guess you could say the personnel are either TA or OA employees, but the buses are simply MTA-NYCT vehicles because they are transferred between TA and OA depots.
MTA-NYCT as well MTA-LIRR, MTA-MNRR, MTA-B & T , MTA-SIR and MTA-LI Bus are under the MTA which is a state agency.
NYCDOT - privates provide a large portion of bus service in Queens, some in Brooklyn and express routes in the Bronx.
I hope this helps.
Wayne
Can a driver or mechanic who works at a MaBSTOA depot transfer to a TA depot?
I don't know personnel rules, but my understanding is that it's an involved process and you lose seniority and so on. It sounds (to me) like a person resigning one job and moving to a new company. Someone has explained it in the past - I believe it was Fernando Perez.
Wayne
ta and oa mechanics work side by side at the central maintenance facility.
Many bus operators transfer from OA to Ta regularly. However as Wayne mentioned you lose your OA senority and you must start probation again no matter how much time you have put in at OA. Operators do this because they may live closer in Brooklyn or Queens and have a shorter commute.
I know of a Operator who came in with me and transfered to Brooklyn and as soon as he had enough senority he came back to Manhattan to 126 St depot. He hated Brooklyn very much and missed working in Manhattan.
ThMaBSTOA was formed when the 5th Ave Coach Lines (NYC Omnibus, Surface etc) was taken over by the city in the early 60s.
5 AVE COACH became MaBstoa as a result of their poor labor
relations with TWU and their problems with making good on
pension obligations to their retirees in 1962.TWU struck 5 AV
on March 1,1962.The strike lasted 22 days and when it was over,
5 AV COACH was out of business and a "temporary" agency was
created to provide bus service for Manhatten and the Bronx.
MaBstoa is still with us today,38 years later and their pension
system still runs inn the red!!!
ANDY/UP
Actually, MaBSTOA is under the MTA, not the NYCTA. AFAIK, all the various sub-groups come under the MTA umbrella.
-Hank
Baically, In a nut shell!
Trevor
Just saw in Sunday's Newsday in the classified section, MaBSTOA took out an ad to hire bus operators.
Seen the same ad. I will fill it out and send it in......
B46M Limited
Actually, all routes within the City of New York are considered NYCDOT routes and, technically, are farmed out on a franchise basis.
In reality, both NYC Transit and L.I.Bus have the LEGAL authority, as MTA operating agencies, to provide service anywhere within the 12-county MTA District (i.e. on any street that can physically accommodate a bus). In theory, NYCT could start a route tomorrow between Riverhead and Port Jervis. As a practical and political matter, such a thing would never happen (I hope!).
As far as the NYCDOT private carriers are concerned, they are not truly independent. DOT provides each company with almost everything - buses, garages, recovery of expenses (including campaign contributions), and guaranteed profit margins. Each company needs only to hire bodies, and each makes money just by existing.
NYCT and LIB bus maps, and the MTA Regional Map, include other carriers' services (and vice versa) because those services are there; complete information facilitates regional mobility, which is MTA's legislated purpose.
Relative to your comment, "Prior to the 1980 buses simply did not cross the TA/OA line," this is not totally true. Shortly after the formation of Mabstoa, the TA realized the former Fifth Avenue/Surface fleet was in bad shape and shipped many old looks in the 4000-4499 series from TA to Mabstoa. When they arrived at Mabstoa, OA put a "T" right before the number so that they would not be confused with some Surface buses that were also numbered in the 4000's. Also, as past posts have indicated, some of the last old looks for Mabstoa (2600's and 3200's) wound up running on some TA routes together with the 7000's and/or 9000's before the old looks disappeared altogether. Even in the early 1980's, TA and OA buses were kept separate for the most part. It wasn't until later in the '80's, when some of the Mabstoa 1981/82 RTS's started showing up in Queens, that you had the beginnings of frequent transfers of buses between the two entities.
Yes, I know there were some exceptions. My intention was to point out that it was not a regular practice for TA buses to transfer to OA depots and vice versa. Also - even before OA RTS went to TA - Kingsbridge had 1982 RTS that were used on the X61. KB had 1854-1858 may a couple more. I know this was necessary because MABSTOA did not receive any 1981, 1982 RTS or Grumman 870 express buses.
Wayne
At the risk of starting a war- the current MTA/NYCT/TWU contract calls for the "exploration" of creating a "Regional Bus Company" to eliminate "the artificial separation between the two agencies [NYCT and MaBSTOA]."
the contract goes on to state that if favorable, legislation would be requested to accomplish the change.
Fernando Perez can elaborate but sick days, discipline and pensions are among the differences that would have to be settled.
This regional Bus Company study is a hot topic right now and could
hold up our contract ratifacation for some time.Many of us,myself
included,believe this is a step towards privite operation of our
bus routes.The TA is looking to get rid of us civil service bus
operators and our union(whats left of it).We can't let this happen.
ANDY/UP
I am updating my NJT Route Descriptions,,if anyone needs any assistance,,let me know.From what I understand,there are changes to about 25 to 30 routes.
This material should be available in about 2 weeks..Please let me know.
Steve
In the last couple of days, i understand becasue of the cold weathr, washing a bus is a bad idea because it will look bad. last weekend, i was on a Orion from Castleton depot with grime all over it, but when i see the MCI buses, they look new and neat. If these buses sit outside(only because there is no room in the depot), how are maintence abole to keep these buses so neat with no grime to them?
p.s. have all the old express buses from yukon went to Ulmer Park and if so, which #'s went?
4800 series left. as far as i know mci washed everyday.
At this "private" company we have a "Service Building". Every night the fleet gets: fueled, probed, vacuumed (air hose is draged in & we blow the stuff forward to the full door width sucker) & washed via three lanes for our 300 plus fleet.
Mid-day we have a crew of cleaners that do light cleaning, basically picking up coffee cups & newspapers.
Mr t__:^)
At Yukon on Staten Island, returning buses line up outside the depot. They are brought to the door by the bus driver where a (for a better railroad term) hostler brings the bus into the garage through the bus wash. I don't know when/how they do the inside though. The hostler then parks the bus or takes it to an outside parking area. (Fuel is done just before the wash).
I know they ferry the hostlers back and forth from the Richmond Ave/Aurther Kill Road remote parking area and some jump on a terminating express bus or local to get back to the depot.
I think most bus depots use about the same procedure.
BTW, the Service Bldg. crew are called Cleaner/Shifters
P.S. at LI Bus the driver stays with the bus until it's parked inside the bldg. Mid-day they use the third lane which bypasses the two wash lanes. I was impressed that they put in four CNG fueling lanes to avoid everything getting backed up their.
Mr t__:^)
Ulmer Park has seperate procedures for Express and Local Busses. Locals usually just pull in the bus when they are done.
The Express is complicated. Busses which do not stay in westside are pulled into the garage by the bus driver. The shifters fuel, vacumn and (usually) wash the bus, then park it. At night, they are just parked by the driver, not fueled or vacumned except for the busses that stay in Westside for the day. This is beacuse of the amount of busses that return at once and the lack of space to line them up in the neighborhood to enter the garage. Also so the TA dosent have to pay out overtime!
BTW, UP has 2 fueling stations - is this the same in all the other depots??
that is strange indeed. you mean nyct leaves the buses parked at night with money in farebox? at yukon we have three fuel stations and transit pays out as much ot as needed to get all busses probed at pm pullin.
This is part true. Express buses do get fueled in the morning, but they also get vacumn at night. There is a special lane that is used just to get the money out of them. The depot dose not like to leave money in any bus over night in the yard.
Well, most express bus passengers pay by METROCARD now, so there is usually not much money in the farebox.
you are correct about the hustler? but interior cleaning is only done on some buses. due to union rules cleaners only have to sweep a certain amount of buses each day. in addition some buses receive an interior wash in the middle of the day.
The TA discontinues service on this route either in 1987 or 1988 due to extreme low ridership especially after the M-14 was extended via Grand Street from Essexx Street to the FDR Drive. With the growth of the lower East Side and SoHo they should bring this route back, ot create a true crosstown route on Houston Street.
The TA is now proposing a revision of the M-21 and M-22 routes with the M-22 being extended via the M-21 route to E.34 St/1 Ave. You may check this out on the MTA Web Site on the East Side(2nd Ave Subway Study) under Surfice Transit Options
If they do this, they should increase service on the M22 and make it more reliable.
Didn't the M8 used to be operated by the old AV B/E.BROADWAY
company until 1980?
ANDY/UP
it did. i remember being on it when the ta ran it. i can understand why it didnt last. not only low ridership, but because you could walk part of the legnth of the route on Grand St from Broadway-Essex Street and beat the bus because of the traffic. There is no reason to bring it back becasue it wont run on time, especially with the traffic.
If i wanted to bring a bus route back, bring back the B-33. Prospect Avenue in Brooklyn.
send me the link to check this out
M15 VIA EAST 14 ST,.AVENUE D, ,COLUMBIA ST,HOUSTON ST,FDR DRIVE,DELANCEY ST, COLUMBIA ST TO AV C
M22 VIA NORMAL ROUTING,,THEN LEFT ON GRAND AV,RIGHT ON COLUMBIA ST,,LEFT ON DELANCEY ST,,,RIGHT ON AVENUE C, TO 34 ST
M21 VIA HOUSTON ST,FDR DRIVE, GRAND AV,,RET FROM FDR VIA GRAND AV, COLUMBIA ST AND HOUSTON ST
M21 VIA HOUSTON ST, RIGHT ON CHRYSTIE ST,LEFT ON GRAND AV,TO FDR DRIVE,,TO PRESENT M22 TERMINAL
RETURN VIA FDR,,CHERRY ,,ETC,GRAND AV,RIGHT ON CHYRSTIE ST,LEFT ON HOUSTON
Did you mean the M 14 not the M 15 which is 1st and 2nd Aves?
That's M15, not M14.
The idea is to link the Lower East Side with East Midtown and the Upper East Side by introducing a third M15 branch (which would probably get a new number).
This would eliminate the need to transfer at 14th & First, which is an enormously heavy transfer point.
Interesting that this has been brought up. Yesterday I rode on 4165 on the M14 and the sign read the following:
M15 Chelsea Piers
M15 West St
M15 Crosstown
M15 Via Ave D
Back Sign: M15
I wonder if this is the start of something in the near future or just a programming error. Time will tell.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Those signs look like a programming error,considering the M15 does not go to Chelsea Piers
Thanks FDNY! I knew you would have the right answer.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
The M 15 should stay the way it does. The 14 should be split until different numbers like the 16/34 101/102/103 etc. Any new routing should be a seperate route number
Hi; I totally agree, although for different reasons. That is, a different route code would allow transferring between all branches of one particular route, without lockout/add'l fare.
I think that the new revised route should also, instead of taking Av. C to 23rd St, then up 1st, go up 14th. This would be a very helpful route from BPC to Stuy Town, and a suppliment for the M9.
The M9 would disappear under this proposal.
It would be replaced by the M22 extension via Avenue C to Bellevue or 34th, AND by the M15 (third branch) via First/Second, 14th, Av D, loop around Baruch Houses.
This offers the following:
1. Lower East Side to East Midtown on one bus (no transfer).
2. Peter Cooper Village/Stuyvesant Town/Lower East Side to City Hall/WTC on one local bus (no transfers, no $3 for the X25).
As a resident of Lilian Wald houses on the LES, that is not a bad idea. The more options for travel without the second ave subway the better especially at the eastern end of Houston street where at times seems like the end of the world in a transportation sense.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
If I remember correctly the old M-8 Grand Street never ran more then 4 busses on the entire route including rush hours
The old M8 (not to be confused with current M8) appears as an MTA-run route on the 1987 Manhattan bus map, but by the 1989 map the service had been eliminated. In 1987 it appears to have had 15-minute headway in the a.m. rush, and 22-minute headways in the p.m. rush, indicating low ridership by that point.
M8 route (1987 map) -
Eastbound - Varick St., Grand St., Lewis St., Delancey St., end at FDR Drive.
Westbound - FDR Dr., Grand St., Chrystie St., Broome St., end at Varick St.
The long-gone M12 is on the 1976 Manhattan map, but not the 1980 map. It only ran weekday a.m. and p.m. rush hours with 43-minute headways which works out to 4 runs per day indicating minimal ridership.
M12 route (1976 map)-
Eastbound - 6th Ave., Spring St., Bowery, Delancey St., end at Mangin St.
Westbound - Mangin St., Delancey St., Bowery, Prince St., West Broadway, Watts St., end at 6th Avenue.
Any new SoHo bus service should run between the 'Silicon Alley' area only as far north as 23rd Street and south to the Battery/Ferry area serving the financial district. The demographics of this area could support either a local route or premium fare express-coach route.
Proposed "M11" or "X91" route-
Northbound - Battery Park/Ferry terminal to State St., Battery Place, Church St., 6th Ave., Spring St., Lafayette St., Astor Pl., 4th Ave., Park Ave. South, end at E 23 St.
Southbound - 3 Ave., Bowery, Broome St., Varick St., West Broadway, Vesey St., Broadway, end at Battery Park/Ferry terminal.
Correction, make that proposed route the "M17".
why run a bus, when it almost duplicates the 4/5 lines IRT
A surface alternative which runs east-west through SoHo would benefit residents. Manhattan routes in many cases duplicate subway services.
That would work, but which block could it run up. it can't run up on grand st, because you could walk the length of the route and you would beat the bus because of the traffic. Houston Street direct, river to river could work, but the TA may run less buses on it and not often enough, figuring there is not a renenue.
Why dont they put articulated buses on the M14, especially on the Ave A route. The turns are easy, and when hudson had the low floor, it ran up ave A with no problems.
I agree with you about putting artics on the M14. The 14A would not be the only one that can use them. The TA tested 1098 on the M14 when it was first delivered in 1998 and it performed extremley well on the M14C/D line as well as the 14A. I would really like to see the artics on the 14 because this line is carrying alot more people than it did just 2 years ago as an example. Just an additional note, this bus opearated in revenue service not just test service. This test was very short, no more than a week tops.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn Pretlow
Vice President/Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
Didn't the TA have this bus on order a few years ago? what happened to the order? and are they like the newer models run buy NJ TRANSIT.
Flxible went belly-up before production could be started. The 50 buses the TA ordered from them wound up being built by Orion.
-Hank
Besides the very marginal Ave.B&E.Bway Transit's Grand St.Crosstown(#8),the N.Y.C. Omnibus Corp.ran a very close neighbor,(#12),the Spring&Delancey Sts. Crosstown.This line ran from "Mangin St."(east) to "West Broadway"(west)---these were the only two destination signs I ever saw on this snailpace line(Willy B.Bridge traffic didn't help).It ran out of the 12th St.Garage(along with the #13-8th St.and #14-14th St.crosstown lines).These three lines were covered until the late '50's by mid '30's Yellow Coaches---see Bus Album #1,bus #14 for an exact shot of how these buses looked in the '50's(this one's on the 14 St.line).One more thing---does anyone know for certain when the Omnibuses'Pitt&Ridge Sts.line(#22) ceased operations? I got into buses sometime around '54 and never saw any evidence of it(on the streets,at the garage,on roll signs,on transfers,etc.).Thanks!!!
Sorry,Hank that my posting wasnot related to your topic---my mistake!But it's good N.Y.C.bus history anyway.
Also they're two different models. The first was the Grumman Flxible 870 that went out of production in the early 80's and was replaced by the Flxible Metro.
Wayne
Recall that about 4 Metros wound up on the Queens Privates. Rumor was that they were cancelled NYCTA buses; never confirmed. Green had two , I think. Beautiful buses.
Joe C
i remember seeing Grumman buses in service at Queens, Triboro and Green Lines. I know there are still grummans at Jamaica and still running. The question i have is, how come they are still runnig at jamaica and not at the other depots and if they were pulled at Green Lines, why?
p.s. why hasn't Jamaica Bus Lines gotten Orion V buses yet?
Green pulled them and used the same reason the city did. Plus they filed a lawsuit against Grumman claiming almost the same word for word as the city. Never heard the outcome of the suit.
My recollection is that Green ran its 870's about as long as Queens Transit, Steinway and Triboro ran theirs. (Only Jamaica kept its much longer.) In addition, Green got some 870's 2nd hand from Houston and, as posted elsewhere on this thread, Green had a few Flxible Metros for awhile. I don't remember any lawsuit filed by Green against Grumman or Flxible.
The GBL Grummans 870/Flexible Metro's were as followed:545-549 were 2nd hand from Houston,550-589 was the original purchase and 590-591 was the Flexible Metros.Of all these the Grumman's from Houston was a good bus as was the Metro's .The one thing of the Metro's though was the seating was exactly like the TA's 870's and same color seats(blue)while the the 870's had the seating that GBL has on 601 -606 and JBL has on its 500 series RTS's (beige/brown)The Houston Grummans had the seats basically what the GBL Orions have now (blue vinyl cusions)As far as I'm concerned the the Grumman's was a much bus to ride than the RTS-4 in the early to mid 80's.Hopefully MCI being that they have the plans now for the Metro's. That they will start production of that model once again and that the TA will them besides the suburbans.MCI did do a good job with the original Canadian GM Classic.
Didn t Grumman sell their Bus Division to the Flexible Corp after the 870 and before the Metro, To A Company called the Feelxible Corp, and that corp went bankrupt?
Well. Here is a short history about the Flxible ownership transfers!
Of course when flxible first began back in 1917 it was just The Flxible Corporation. In the mid-70s, due to low finances, The Grumman Corporation bought out The Flxible Corporation, thus the name Grumman-Flxible. Around like 1983 when the Metro-A came into play, Grumman-Flxible sold the Flxible rights to the General Automotive Corporation (GAC). GAC did not want to attach there name to the Flxible name, so Grumman Flxible became the Flxible Corporation. And the rest is history.
Trevor
A couple more notes about Flxible, they did not start building transit buses 'till about 1952-53 when they bought the rights to takeover and produce the Twin Coach product line of transit buses.Flxible only built intercity coaches before buying Twin Coach(they gave up intercity production around 1968 or so). Most of Flxible's transit bus production through the 1950s were propane powered old-look buses for Chicago CTA. In 1961 Flxible introduced a new-look design to compete with GMC's, by that time Mack was out of the transit bus business and GMC and Flxible were the only U.S. builders of heavy-duty transit buses.
Flxible still used the "Twin Coach" name for their transit buses up through the first few years of new-look production.
Before being sold to Grumman, Flxible was also owned by the Rohr corporation, the same company that bult subway cars for BART and Washington, and Turboliners for Amtrak. I think design work for the 870 began under Rohr ownership, but went into production under Grumman.
My 2 cents! The Flxible version of the UMTA Transbus was also referred to as the Rohr Transbus.
Wayne
Wasn t Twin Coach also called Falgo-Twin Coach in the late 40s?
I'm not sure of the exact time frame here but on the name plates then they were called Fageol-Twin Coach. The Fageol name was in reference to the engine as far as the plates went. They were just called Twins for the most part.
The later model Twin Coaches between 51-53 were "FL" models which were called Fageoliners and then Flxible acquired the rights to the Twin Coach name in 53. A few "FL's" were built under Flxible but the model changed to "FT" for models after that.
The "modern" Twin Coach design was incorporated into the later Fageoliners (the first few looked like moving vans) but they could be identified easily by the visible frame rail going around the bus.
RDChilds
Regarding the use of the "Twin Coach" name on the buses built by Flxible.....Los Angeles Metropolitan Transit Authority (NOT the present day L.A. COUNTY Metropolitan TRANSPORTATION Authority) bought both 1963 and 1964 Flxible transit buses. The 5800's of 1963 came with "Twin Coach" ovals attached to the "Flxible" plate on the front of the bus; the 5900's of 1964 did NOT have them.
So....guess it's safe to say they stopped using "Twin Coach" around late 1963 or early 1964???
Flxible had a ten year agreement to use the Twin Coach name from 53-63.
RDChilds
The name ROHR was on the the last batch of flxible new looks that the TA bought (the 9000's)
B/c Jamaica keeps their buses in great shape. A few weeks ago, I saw Grummans outside Jamaica Bus Line Yard and they looked like they were in great condition. I have pics of them if you'd like to see them, please email me and I'll be happy to send them to you.
MM2000
email me the pics
Joe,
You're correct. There were a few Flxible Metros at Queens Transit and Green Bus Lines. They were 53102-6-1 and Queens Transit had 860 and 861 and I beleive Green Bus Lines had 590 & 591. I never did ride them but I saw QT's often. Unfortunately they disappeared.
Wayne
LAMTA still has quite a few, and many other agencies have the Metros Great Busses.
The ones green had went out to msba. I recall seeing them running for msba with the green stripe and lettered for msba.
On Wednesday there was a post about the "3 bananas" of the Bee Line.
A colleague who worked for the Bernacchia (correct spelling) brothers confirmed that they were indeed affectionaly refered to as the 3 bananas.
Mr t__:^)
Yes, I did mention that this week. In 1977 at a slide show in Toronto, I was showing shots of W'county. I referred to the logo as the "3 bananas" which got many laughs from the attendees.
Joe C
i guess the only place Ny will see Grumman buses is in ho scale by road champs. if anyone owns this(i own 31), they look nice, with the air conditioning on top and the M42 sign on it along with MTA-New York City bus on side and back,,plus advertising. sells or about $6 or so.
At least we have our memories on when they were here
where can I get one of these models?
www.diecastdirect.com
they on sale for about $4 or so
and they got NJ Transit,AC Transit and Houston Metro.
They are made by Road Champs (of Caldwell, NJ). They originally listed at $8.95, but I don't think I ever saw them at that price.
They used to be sold individually at Toys-R-Us, but the individual ones are no longer available. Nowadays they are sold in a 4-pack, and one of the four will be a Greyhound Eagle.
The Flxible Metros come in:
New York MTA (never had them, only had 870's)
Chicago CTA (this one I believe is actually correct!)
Minneapolis MTC (numbered for a Gillig....)
AC Transit, Oakland California (who never had them)
Atlanta MARTA (not sure, but they may be correct)
Miami-Dade TA (correct)
Dallas DART (correct)
Houston Metro (may be correct)
NJ Transit (correct)
I've stripped a few down and repainted them in other cities' schemes, notably San Francisco Muni (they had 870's not Metro's), Orange County California (also 870's but no Metro's and North County Transit, Oceanside Californa (perfect match for their 900's).
Thank, you, I will try them later
Want to see these wonderful model buses, Click Here
MTA Hybrid Man
is there any chance you could paint one for me with the MSBA paint job. i would pay if possible. please let me know via email if it can be done.
Steve,
I have a few of the Road Champs buses that I've bought to repaint. I've never painted a die cast model before - what did you use to strip the old paint off? Also, any special paint that can be used, or will standard model paint (Floquil, for example) work?
Would appreciate any advice. Thanks!
- Jim D.
The Road Champs Flxible Metro buses are slightly tricky to disassemble. Two screws hold the whole thing together, and once those are out, you can pull out the underframe and interior, as well as the chromed headlight piece. The trick is getting the window piece out. Be careful that the taillamp (clear red plastic) pieces don't fly, you'll never be able to replace them. But, to remove the window piece, I found that inserting a very small screwdriver at the very top of the driver's top window will help it out. Once you get it about 1/8" down, then you can pry it the rest of the way from the front.
To strip the body shell, get a plastic container (a Tupperware one works fine for me) and fill it about 2" deep with PINE-SOL!!! Yes, that's what I said, Pine-Sol. Do NOT use imitation brands, use the REAL THING. Let it sit overnight and the paint job will come off easily. You may have to coax a few tough spots off with an old toothbrush, or pick at them with a pointy X-Acto knife. (I'm finding now that the Road Champs buses have sat for a few years, the paint gets harder to remove....)
Painting them up? I airbrush them first with Floquil grey primer. I then stick the body shell in the oven for about 20 minutes at 250 degrees and it bakes the primer on well.
For the rest of the paint schemes, I use Testor's gloss enamels, but I thin them 50-50 with LACQUER thinner. This gives a VERY durable, glossy finish that looks more like a bus paint job. As above with the primer, after each coat, the body gets baked in the oven.
The oven baking hardens the paint and makes it stay on better. To handle the shell, I have a painting jig -- a piece of extruded aluminum with two adjustable upright bars that hold the shell fromt h inside. I forget where I bought it, but it is readly available through hobby stores.
If there's any other help I can give anyone for painting bus models, feel free to get in touch.
On some Orions make hiss sounds when the driver slows down. These are mainly CS depot buses. The bus slows down but the driver doesn't seem to be braking. It sounds like hiss hiss hiss hiss and seems to be comming from the engine capartment. I dont recall any NYC buses with jake brakes.
Some newer buses actually have retarders on them that are air actuated. The retarders activate whe the driver releases pressure from the accelerator pedal.
I drive some 1999 New Flyer low floors that have this feature. The retarder can bring the bus down to about 8 miles an hour and then you must be using the brake pedal to completely stop the bus. This is assuming that you have the distance for the retarder to do so; in shorter distances, you use the brakes all the way, but the retarder is there as well.
As buses have gotten heavier over the years, the retarders have become (more or less) necessary to keep the brakes from wearing out prematurely. The old GM New Looks (as well as Flxible New Look types) weight around 21,000 pounds; the RTS's nowadays are around 28,600 pounds. (Many people think they weigh a lot more, but that is due to the GAWR listings on the stickers in the bus -- those are the weights the vehicles go up to maximum WITH a load.)
I was wondering about that myself. I've noticed the hissing noise on a few of the newer buses I've seen. I was thinking it was the air compressor governor unloading valve but that's more of a buzz noise it makes. It's really obnoxious on the older Neoplans we have in Pgh.
Another strange noise we have on some of our Orions in Pgh is a loud whistling noise while under acceleration. It sounds like someone blowing air over a couple bottles at once. I've heard 2 theories on that noise. First had to do with the air compressor and the other had to do with air being blown out of the cooling system when it's a little low on fluid. I'm not sure what makes the noise but both seem like likely suspects.
RDChilds
That whistling noise when accelerating is also on many NABI buses, and also on New Flyer's. The common denominator, as I've noticed, is the Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine.
I think (and my be wrong...) that the engine just puts out so much compression that it is "whistling" through bends in the exhaust piping, as that is exactly what it seems to be doing on our NFI D40LF's, and even on our D60LF's that we just got. A friend who is a supervisor with Miami-Dade TA in Florida says their NABI's all do it, and they have Series 50 engines too.
Has anyone noticed it on the D40LF's at NYCTA?
In this case, the whistle is on the 6V-92TA's in the first order of Orions. I haven't heard it on anything else in the fleet. I know the whistle your talking about on the Series 50 engines but the one I'm talking about is very loud (can be heard a few blocks away) and it's only on some of the 2000's and occaisionally on the 2100's. We only have 5 series 50 powered Orions - 2295-2299 (that I know of) and they don't make this noise. It comes and goes as some days they do it and some days they don't.
If your at the MBS convention in Pittsburgh this Spring, you'll probably hear what I'm talking about. A very distinctive whistle like a bunch of kids on slide whistles or blowing over a bunch of bottles, only much louder and deeper in tone.
RDChilds
NYCT doesn't have D40LFs. We've got D60s, and C40LFs.
-Hank
The Orions have a Air Dryer which is supposed to dry air that is used by the air brake system. I dont the mechanical details but this is what was told to me by a bus maintainer at Kingsbridge depot.
is this the same as a jake brake. if not what is a jake brake.
A retarder and a "Jake Brake" are two different things, though they do the same basic job -- they slow a vehicle down.
A retarder is usually a device in the transmission or on the drive shaft. The way I was explained (by a representative of Voith, they make transmissions) is that the in-transmission retarder basically routes the fluids "backwards" int he transmission so that back compression is provided, thereby slowing the vehicle down. Retarders on the drive shafts, such as the Telma Retarder, are activated in an electromagnetic way. Part of this retarder is on the driveshaft (I believe it is called the "stator") and the electromagnets, when activated (by use of the brake pedal) "grab" the stator and slow the rotation of the drive shaft.
A "Jake Brake" (made by Jacobsen Engine Brake Co.) is a device that is basically "inside" a diesel engine. When activated, either by a manual switch or by a switch connected to an accelerator pedal (so when the accelerator is released, it activates), the "Jake Brake" mechanism holds the exhaust valves of the diesel engine closed. This builds up back pressure within the diesel engine and thereby slows the vehicle.
"Jake Brakes" are not too common on city transit buses, but a lot of over-the-road type buses do have them, and most highway trucks do as well. San Francisco Municipal Railway equipped all their 1969-1970 GM T8H5305's with them, as did Seattle Metro. Dallas Transit System had some TDH5303's equipped with Jake Brakes, and Norwalk Transit System in California had their six Gillig Phantoms equipped with them too.
thanks. some of our mci coaches which have reached 35000 miles are now having the retarder activate when pressure is taken off accelerator. originally retartder only activated when brake was depressed.
That sounds like maintenance made a modification, or the types of retarders was changed.
I was happy to ride this bus this morning on Q59 and I noticed 2 strange things on her:
1. 2nd set of wheelchair seats in rear of bus, there's no armrest- usually there is.
2. A weird looking stop requested sign- smaller than usual and never lit up- anybody knows about this bus and it's sign?
MM2000
That was a good route to run it on. It really should've ran on the 58. Is that the sign that some of the Blitz buses had? 3294 had the same one.
Yes that is! Whenever a bus's Stop Requested sign goes down, the TA goes to the reserves and dig up what they could find. Yes the do have a crap load of ex-Blitz Stop Requested signs on reserve, so don't be surprised if this becomes the regular as more signs go out of commission.
MTA Hybrid Man
That Stop Requested sign is on a bunch of 1983 RTS's (3249-3325). They got the signs while they were assigned to Hudson Pier Depot, which also was a big Blitz depot, with several 5200's and 5300's running out of there.
Those RTS's were later moved to FP, UP, ENY, JAM and CS in 1991 and again in 1993(?). I am pretty sure of the year, because that is when JAM lost 3577-3609 in exchange for 3249-3278--what a horrible trade that was for JAM.
There's also a bus from WS which has a digital stop requested sign. It displays the time, and when somebody presses the stop request button, it reads out stop requested. Are these the signs of the future???
Clark
I hope so, it sounds pretty cool.
Just hope they don't start trying to sell ads on them. They experimented here in Pgh with a similar sign on a few buses several years ago but tried to use it as a revenue source as well. It didn't go over very well.
Using it for time, service changes, and other route/system messages would be a good idea though but just not ads. There's enough of those as it is.
RDChilds
That's 9624, with the Passenger Information System, more commonly known as igotaPIS.
Hope they NEVER run it on the B24. It couldn't climb the grade of the Kosciusco (never mind the spelling!) Bridge!
If they run it on the late P.M on the B24, it'll make the bridge. There are only a few people that ride the line late at night.
How do we retrieve posts made prior to 1/20/00, please?
You can't. When Dave reset the board, all messages prior to 1/20/00 were deleted. This very extreme step was taken by the Webmaster due to constant "flame wars" that were overunning the board.
So...keep it clean and keep the fire extinguishers handy.
BusTalk is cool, keep it cool!!
Most of us would agree that the 1983 RTS's were the TA's worst fleet. Could it be that the 1982's are the best?
I noticed a couple of postings talking about 1815, 1846 and 1855. The fact that these buses are still alive speaks volumes about the 1982 RTS. Don't forget about the two locals still running--1700 and 2611--or the ex-TA buses running for Academy.
The place to see 1982 RTS's is Queens. They are running there more than in Brooklyn. I see 1745, 1746, 1757, 1844 and 1852 regularly, and I must say that JAM and QV have them looking great. In fact, 1852 has clear tint as opposed to the darker tinted windows found on the rest of the 1981-82 RTS's.
Get your cameras ready for 2611, because I don't think FLA will run it too much longer (yes--2611 was moved from MV to FLA last week),
Lucky i got a picture of GMC-RTS #2611 three weeks ago at 5th Ave. Also i heard #1700 already retires & scrap at Hudson Pier Depot. Now Kingsbridge Depot got most of oldest buses from Brooklyn, Queens, & some from Manhattan, early today i spotted GMC-RTS #4124 on Bx9 & that bus came from West Side Depot. This is why im taking pictures of GMC-RTS Buses first before they retired.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
the 1700's are still alive.if you go to Ulmer Park, you can find 1760,1771 and a few others there. there are some 1800's running too
The following 1982 GMs are now running out of Ulmer Park;
1761,1778,1815,1834,1846,1855.Also,museum buses 8928,3758,1201
have been moved back to gleason.
ANDY/UP
Queens has 15 1982's still running...
JAM: 1746, 1747, 1752, 1755 and 1844
QV: 1740-1741, 1742, 1745, 1751, 1757, 1767, 1773, 1819 and 1852
UP has only seven...
I would agree that the 1982's were probably the best GMC RTS Model. I have connections at Academy and they love them. You can find those buses on The old Red Apple Transit Line going from Hoboken Terminal to the Port Authority Bus Terminal. If anybody wants pics just email me Jmdoct11@aol.com. Most have of those buses have been painted in Academy Colors. I have pics of them both in Academy Colors and when they still had NYC Transit Colorson them. I believe that all of them have been painted in Academy Colors now. If not here is a few of the number which still have NYC Painting on them:81, 82, 87. As I said if anyone is interested please let me know or email me.
Jason AKA Mr. Academy
82 used to be 1710. The next time you see it up close, you can see the number on the passenger side. I rode that one last year and it was a very fast bus.
I spotted at least 2 Academy buses still in the former NYC paint scheme at the Port Authority Bus Terminal this past Tuesday. I also saw one at Newark Airport the next day. Didn't remember the numbers, although I'm pretty sure one of the buses was #81.
As an aside, I have yet to see a new Academy RTS (1000 series) in service on the former Red Apple Hoboken - PABT route. Is Academy prohibited from using those buses there? (The good news is that, if you take that route, you'll probably get a NYC 1981/82 RTS or, sometimes, an older Academy RTS!)
Academy is not prohibited from using those on the Red Apple Hoboken to PABT Line. If it was one with NJT Colors on it, it would most likely be another story. Academy's other Garage in Perth Amboy has new Novas in NJT Colors and they do use them for the NYC Marathon. All buses in the 75 range and in the 80's range are all ex NYCT Buses. I am going to look into finding out some of the old NYCT #'S. The only one I know of is 82 was 1710. The other buses you would see on the Red Apple Line during rush hour are 1989 Flxible Suburbans, one painted completely white 3275 and 3278-3280 in the blue in white scheme. Not to get off the subject, but the 126 which is the ssmae thing as the Red Apple Line just operated by NJT has the NYCT rejects Flxibles. The ones I see over there 1522-1527, 1529-1530 and 1532 have the old NYCT Express Suburban seats in them. You can find those buses either on the 126 during rush hour or the 87 line during rush hour.
I've seen some of Academy's RTS's that used to run on the 22 Line on the PABT route - they are numbered in the 50's and 60's. I know they bought them second-hand, but I do not know from where. Some of them look like they were originally slant-backs. As for the ex-NYC RTS's, as you may know, the UTC NYC bus roster (http://hometown.aol.com/glenn6398/nycbusroster.html) indicates which 1981/82 RTS's were sold to Academy, but other than #82, doesn't match them to Academy's numbers. I think I've seen a match list somewhere, but can't remember where.
What I don't understand is how are these buses profitable for Academy lines to run and to NYCT they are JUNK. NYCT should not be buying more dirty stadard deisel buses. They should continue to operate them and use the cost savings to convert another depot to CNG. With the rising prices of crude oil this move would be both environmentally and economically benneficial
Because the cost of repairing them is outpacing the writeoff for the purchase of new equipment. It takes a few years to convert a depot to fuel CNG buses. Some can't be done, as CNG fueling must be done outdoors.
Any diesel engine built today will run 90% cleaner than an engine built in 1981. Of course, we know they rebuild these engines regularly, but they still lack the improved emmissions controls, and are still not as efficent as a new 'clean diesel'. As for the rising diesel prices, diesel fuel used for mass transit is tax-exempt, so the cost is initially lower than one would pay to fill a private vehicle. And the price of crude oil has always been flexible; it goes up and down as politics demand it. The only reason that the used buses are cost-effective for other companies to run is because they buy them for $4000-$10000, compared to $200,000+ for a new bus. If it costs them $10,000 a year to maintain a bus they bought for $10,000, and that bus lasts them another 5 years, they actually save money. I doubt that the used bus will last more than 5-7 years.
On the other hand, a new $200,000 bus will last a good 15-20 years in NYCT service (your average transit bus lasts 12 years in service) Maintainence costs increase over time as the value of he vehicle decreases.
-Hank
If you folks get tired of "blue striped" RTS there are still many with green, red, & tan, i.e. Jamaica Bus, Green Bus, etc. But none with orange stripes. At this depot we've even started taking some of the TMC vs. GMC RTS out of service since the Orion CNGs are still comming here.
Mr t__:^)
is you take th TMC RTs's out of service, are you seding them to other depots(like Triboro, Green or Command ?) or are they heading to storage
They arent coming to Command. Most likely some will go to Jamaica to replace the Flxibles.
Which TMC buses will be sent elsewhere? I hope it's not my 384 bus.
That's my favorite bus. I love the TMC'S at QS better than the Orion CNG. I remember riding 327 on QBX1 over the summer and I never realized how quickly they pick up speed. But if more CNG'S are coming in, I agree that the # should range from 390-499 and NOT 396-498.
Q66#384Gary
We're starting with #275 and working our way up the list in sequence.
None has left the property for any of the other "privates" ... yet.
When it becomes official & we start getting them ready to leave I'll be happy to tell you all where they are going.
Mr t__:^)
Here's a possible rundown:
275-289 QS-JAMAICA renumbered as 3855-3869.
290-309 QS-GL renumbered as 1130-1149.
310-319 QS-CTC renumbered as 2830-2839.
In return, CTC should give 1183-1184 back to GL. Reason being is b/c GL can get rid of some of their ancient 1979 1000 series and maybe some 1985-1986 RTS for example: 222-238.
QS should keep some TMC's around b/c otherwise, they'll run short. So they should keep buses 320-389. But why don't they get rid of the MCI'S instead of TMC'S. Aren't the MCI's from 1988-1989 and TMC'S 1993-1994?
MM2000
maybe the reason they dont get rid of the mci's is becasue they are express buses, with one door. they can't move this to local lines thorughout queens becasue they only have one door and it wouldnt work. They should send the RTC TMC's throughuot queens and send some to command to replace the 300's series running on the b100 line.
True. But Command has only about 10 GMC RTS still in service.
Jamaica is gonna get them to replace the Grummans. CTC needs more TMC's to use on LOCAL lines and leave the 3000s STRICTLY for the Express and the Q53. Reason why I can see it on Q53 is b/c it's a long route and it is Express even though it's only from Woodside-Rockaway. I do see 2821 every morning on Q53 though.
MM2000
i recently saw #3015 on a express run from CTC. It allready has scratched windows on it, so i guess they weren't going to stay neat for long though.
Guys please stick to the subject of the posting. If not, please re-name the posting. I opened this up expecting to read about 1982 RTS buses, and I get private bus moves, which is fine, but just change to 'subject'.
Peace
Finally the TA has chosen to use those re-painted RTS's that have been sitting in Crosstown for almost a year. This week ex-JAMs 3918, 3919, 3936 and 3942 were spotted in FP service. Funny thing, Wednesday, as I was going home, I spotted 3942 on the B45 with ENY logos, and no ads. The VERY NEXT morning I saw the same bus on the B26 with FP logos.
Has anyone else spotted any more of these forgotten buses in service?
3916 is in service at Ulmer Park as an express coach with
soft seats.
ANDY/UP
3916 was not a Crosstown bus.
Do you know where it came from?
A/UP
3916 was in a minor front-end accident at JAM. When it went to ENY Base Shop for repair, it got soft seats and was reassigned to UP.
3902, 3924 and 3950 were former X-town buses that are now in service at QV. Have a pic of 3950 on Q46.
MM2000
The trolleys on the B-68 were replaced in late 1955. The Mack C-49s that ran so long and so famously on that route did not begin to arrive until the second half of 1956. So which model bus ran on the route until the arrival of the Macks?
My guess would be TWIN COACHES.
ANDY/UP
NOPE TDH4510s out of Coney Island replaced the Trolleys on CI Line and TDH4510s out of 5th Ave(Gleason) replaced the Church Ave Line. When C.I Garage closed whatever Ulmer Park Used until the 68 was transfered to Gleason.
The GMs I mention ran on B 68 until the 60s. maybe when CI was closed as I stated then the Macks ran on the 68
Thanks for the info. I remember in 1962 there were only Macks on the B-68.
A lot has been said here on BT about UP's fleet, and how they have been screwed with not getting new buses.
Well according to the official DOB bus assignment, UP has the oldest fleet in the system with an average age of their fleet 8.2 years. That's only due to 85 1997 Nova express coaches being assigned there (9257-9281, 9285-9344). The fact that UP has the oldest fleet is no surprise. The surprise is who is second--QV at 8.1 years. QV has the most 1982 and 1985 RTS's assigned in the city. Also, they have the most 7000's assigned as well, and we all know that those buses are complete junk. So why is it that QV is number 1 in maintenance and close to last in average age of fleet?
The newest fleet belongs to CAS at 1.85 years. YUK is 2.0 years. The average age of the entire fleet is 5.7 years old.
Huxley, can you send me the list of all the depots and average bus age? My e-mail is supplied above in the heading/header.
Of course QV has new buses now, but prior to receiving their 1998 Novas (9350-9381) QV newest buses were their 1990 TMC RTS. QV did get the 7000 rebuilds but they had a pretty old fleet that included lots of 1981, 1983 GM RTS and their buses still looked rather decent.
Wayne
I've heard that the next batch of articulateds will be assigned to West Side, Kingsbridge, and Gun Hill depots. Does anyone have info. about which routes will get them beyond the M79 and M86? Thanks.
M42 and M23
Interesting, I thought they would make more sense on the north-south routes instead of the crosstowns (except perhaps for the M14).
Some of the NYCTA Orion 5 buses have Hyperactive Fuel Gauges.
They would fly up and down the scale. I don't think that they even use them because they look very undependable. I seen this problem on many Orions. The needles go from Empty to Full in less then a second. Anyone know what causes this problem? Faulty electronics?
Could some one please post for me the roster of all NON-RTS busses on the MTA All I need if The Mfg, Model number, and year delivered. Hopefully I will be able to complete my MTA and NYTA Rosters since 1945 by next month. Also any future deliveries expected this year. Thank you
The best site for that would be the Ohio Muesum of Transportation website at www.omot.org it has the bus production list for every bus mamnufactured til 1980 (pre RTS and 870)Even has for NYC privates
Thanks I already have what I need
Will your list show which models were used on which routes--for example, will it show that Mack C-49s were used on B-8 and that TDH4510s were used on B-49?
No, because busses moved around too much. ust the Mfg Model Roster number and years delivered.
3203: Rode this bus on the B15 last night. It is alive and well. Still had the PA signs on both the exterior and interior.
4125: Saw this bus on the B41 Wednesday night at Utica and Avenue N. It had the FLA logo on. Heading towards Dontown Bklyn.
4130: Saw it on the B49 at Bedford and Fulton. It had painting on the back. Did not check for the depot logo.....
B46M Limited
I just added 61 images on NYCTransiTrans Gallery Bus & Subway'Page & enjoy it my site.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
I see on the map that the M2 Bus has 2 different routings departing from East Village. One is via University Pl and one via 4 Av. There is no indication on how the split is made. Is it:
Alterning buses for each
Limited on 4 Av and Reg. on University Pl
Something else
When its Limited it goes straight up 4 Av making its next stop at 15 St Union Square East. After limited hours its goes up University place.
Then why don't they just put the local routing if there are no stops on 4th Avenue? I've always wondered about this as well.
Although I know that Gleason has 9000's on loan until they get the new low floor buses, I saw on the B68 a 9000 series RTS that had the Gleason logo on it. I also saw another bus like this on the B70 with the Gleason logo on it too (I even saw this situation on the B9, only it was an older manhattan RTS that had he Gleason logo). Is Gleason keeping some of the 9000's and other loan buses, while returning the others?
I spotted 9435 on the B41. This was one of the borrowed 9000's at Gleason. I haven't seen any of the other 9000 loaners lately. I thought they were all returned.
I was on the B68 tonight hoping to get a low floor(got a 5000 series nova- bright destenation diplays), he told me the CNG's don't run on weekends. Does anybody know why
I sae low floor 805 on the B9 Saturday. It was making the turn from Flatbush to Avenue L
B46M Limited
As of next weekend no CNG are going out. This is on orders from the AGM Mr. Livingston. I don't know why this is but let me tell you that there is going to be a shortage of buses on the weekend exp. on Saturday.
One more thing all 9000's went back to there own depots.
i find that hard to believe that they are not letting cng buses running. just this morning, i saw #802 and #826 running on the B68 line. I know they held on to 9000's from other depots until the rest of the nw flyers show up? Is JG keeping the 4600's and 8500's when the rest of the flyer's show up, or are they being moved to another depot?
What I ment to say is that the CNG's are not going out on the weekend as of this coming up weekend. Sorry for the miss under standing.
I spent my summers on Marine Ave in Brooklyn during the early 1960's to early 1970's, at which time there were (I think) two New York City Transit routes that I used to take -- the B37 Third Avenue, that actually ran down Marine Ave before making a right turn on 4th Ave to terminate at Shore Road -- and the B52 Fifth Avenue bus that would depart Shore Road and proceed down 4th Avenue toward downtown Bklyn.
It's been a lot of years since I moved to the West Coast and my memory isn't what it used to be when recalling the good 'ol days. I am trying to model a couple of vintage busses to reflect that era and those two routes.
I'd appreciate it very much if someone could get back to me confirming the correct bus route designations and destinations -- both ends of the route (to and from Shore Road).
Also, the correct wording, abbreviations and colors used on the route ID sign above the front windshield and right side adjacent to passenger entry door.
Finally, what are the routes using the Shore Road "terminal" these days?
Many thanks,
Rick Lalor
Currently:
B16 13th Avenue (Flatbush Avenue & Empire Boulevard, Fourth Avenue & Shore Road)
B37 3rd Avenue (Livingston & Court Streets, Fourth Avenue & Shore Road)
B63 5th Avenue (Atlantic Avenue & Columbia Street, Fourth Avenue & Shore Road)
X27 Bay Ridge-Manhattan Express (E. 57th Street & Madison Avenue, Fourth Avenue & Shore Road -- weekdays only)
and up Shore Road a bit...
B9 60th Street (Shore Road & Mackay Place, Kings Plaza (Flatbush Avenue & Avenue U))
Hope this helps.
David
Many thanks for the information and the quick reply.
Fifth Avenue was B-63, not B-52. On the old GM buses (TDH4510, numbered from 4000 to 4499) that ran until 1961-62, the route designation read "63-5 AV." On the new look GM buses that replaced them then (numbered 1001-1130), the sign read "63 FIFTH to FURMAN" and "63 FIFTH TO SHORE RD." The Ocean Avenue bus (B-49) also had Shore Road destination signs, although this was to Shore Road in Sheepshead Bay. The old look GM buses that ran on that route until the early 60s read "49-OCEAN" on the black route sign and "SHORE ROAD" on the red destination sign. In the other direction, the destination sign read "BERGEN ST.", with a few reading "ST.MARKS AVE." Hope this helps bring back memories
How About the Old B-4 Bay Ridge Pkwy to Shore Road, and B 34(1) Bay Ridge Ave to Shore Road.
Thanks for your help!
b49 ocean terminated at shore blvd in sheepshead bay not shore road. another interesting note is that rogers av was two ways in the 60s so the bus did not use bedford ave. also mack 5000 series began with 5200 and ended with 5599.
Nevertheless, the destination signs on the old GM buses read Shore Road, not boulevard.
Thanks for the extensive info and for correcting my memory regarding the B-63 Fifth Ave route.... Can you forward me the same data for the B-37 Third Ave route?
The GM Old Look 4510s had route signs reading "37-3 AV." I remember one of these old buses having a red destination sign reading "NAVY YARD". The GM New Look buses (those numbered 1001-1130) had signs reading "37 THIRD TO SHORE RD." in one direction and "37 THIRD TO CONCORD ST." in the other.
It's a pleasure to share this info and these memories with you.
I remember prior to the 4510s on 3rd Ave they ran the Macks and Twin Coaches out of Ulmer Park(40s-50s) Back then the 5 and 7th Ave Lines always ran out of Ulmer Park(Or is it the 8th Ave)
The Macks you refer to as having run on on B-37 must have been before the famous C-50s numbered from 5300 to 5599 in Brooklyn. By the way, since you mention 8th Avenue (B-70), can you tell me what model of bus ran on that route betwseen 1956 and 1963? I'm trying to compile a list for all Brooklyn bus routes for that period from childhood memory.
Childhood Memories:
I grew up near 8th Ave in the years you mention. The B70 and B11 were among my first transit experiences.
IIRC,the B70 ran a combination of 6000 series Macks and 4500 series GM old looks at that time. New Looks appeared around 1961. Since they came from the same depot,the B11 had a similar assortment.
What happening to Originally GMC-RTS #4211? I know that bus was Ex #3496 renumber to #4211. Originally #4211 had a accident or couldn't fix it? Any body know about this please post it here. Thank You. By the way i finally got a pictures of #4211 on Bx11 today.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Sounds like some kind of cover-up to me!
3460: Saw this bus in my old neighborhood of Crown Heights on the B46. Seems like FLA is still getting those Manhattan and Bx hand me downs.
4042: Saw this bus on the B12 @ Atlantic and Penn. I see that the 4000 are returning home.........
B46M Limited
steve,
read your email on how you paint the road champs grummans. is there any way you can paint 1 or 2 with the old LI bus design(MSBA) i would pay for them if possible. please let me know if this can be done.
Road Champs makes Grummans? I have serveral Flxible Metro D's from Road Champs. The reason you can tell they are Metro's are due to the design which has redisigned rear cap and the roof mounted HVAC unit. It would be great if they did make an 870 model which would really be excellent to have in a collection.
Peace
DaShawn Pretlow
Vice President/Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
I don't have any extras to paint unfortunately, as Road Champs has NOT made any for two years. Not sure of what the MSBA paint scheme looked like -- if it has any peculiar lettering, etc., not able to do that unless it is readily available from (for instance) a model railroad decal manufacturer, or "instant lettering" (rub-on stuff).
To All BusTalk Members;
Update at TransiTALK (Not pics wise, that’s not until this Friday) but staff wise.
TransiTALK is now 9 members strong. With the return of Gary Chatterton, and the Additions of Clayton Parker, Tevi, My Brother-Avery Carter and DaShawn's nephew-Brian Wardy.
Many good things to come in this coming year from all. Have a Blessed Evening!
Regards,
Trevor Logan aka MTA Hybrid Man
Founder
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
Complete sets of ERA Headlights in mint condition are being offered on eBay. The closing date is January 25:
1975: No reserve, minimum bid applies. ERA Headlights for the year 1975. Monthly publication of Electric Railroaders' Association, glossy stock, many photos, some months combined. Traction history for mostly 1975, primarily from USA, Canada and Mexico, with some international content. September-November issue contains large story, with many photos, on the history of the BMT's Brooklyn rapid transit lines. Condition A+. eBay Item #241013682.
1976: No reserve, minimum bid applies. ERA Headlights for year 1976. Monthly publication of Electric Railroaders' Association, glossy stock, many photos, some months combined. Traction history for mostly 1976, primarily from USA, Canada and Mexico, with some international content. Condition A+. eBay Item #241008592.
the following changes occured in 1982, but i can'r rember what date did it happen. please let me know when it did:
b1-Oriental Blvd-Mackenzie St to 25th Av-86th St(old)
b1-Oriental Blvd-Mackenzie St to Bay Ridge Av-Shore Road(new)
B3-e 71st st or e 74th st/av x to 86th St-25th ave(old)
b3-3 71st st ot E 74th st/av x to 25th av-harway av(new)
b4-25th Av-harway av to 77th st-narrows av(old)
b4-Voorhies av/Knapp st to 77th St-Narrows Av(New)
b21-Oriental Blvd-Mackenzie St to Voories Av-Knapp St(discontiuned)
B34-Bay Ridge Av-Shore Road to 25th Av-Harway Av(discontiuned)
Simon,
The changes indicated above took place effective October 31,1978.
At the same time the B-11 was extended from 18 Ave/50 St to Rockaway Parkway Station and the B-50 was extended from Rockaway Parkway Station to Coney Island Avenue and the B-74 hours were cut back and the B-36 was extended to 24 hours a day and rerouted in Coney Island.
2 more questions in route changes:
1-when did the b-33 stop running?
2-when the b-11 get rerouted from Rockaway pky to Flatbush(i would have termintated the bus At Utica Avenue instead, if it was up to me)
The B-33 was discontinued the same time the B-10 was extended to JFK Airport and redesignated the B-15 in the early 90's on a Spring pick.
The B-11 was cut back to Flatbush Ave from Rockaway Parkway Station to Flatbush Ave in the early 1980's. I don't remember when but it was after I moved from Canarsie in June of 1981.
The reason it was cut back to Flatbush Ave instead of Utica Ave were two reasons:
1-Continued duplication of the B-6
2-Very hard to turn around at the Utica Ave/Kings Highway area at Glenwood Road. It would have been very dangerous their. I know as i grew up in the Canarsie section of Brooklyn and rode the B-6 alot.
Also the B-11 extenstion to Rockaway Parkway was an afterthought.
The Boro Park residents wanted the B-11 extended to Coney Island Ave/Ave J the TA wanted Ave J/E 16 St Station. The residents on E 16 St/E 15 St said objected and next thing it was extended to Canarsie. were it just duplicated the B-6 and was not needed at all so it was cut back to Flatbush Ave/Nostrand Ave Junction.
Well considering things now it would be a good idea for the ta to look into a rush hour /weekday service to relive the six and allow more b6 buses run to new lots the full route.
wouldnt it make sense to send the b11 to terminate at Ralph Ave at least during rush hours? I mean, the b6 has a lot of runs from Ulmer Park doing the line, plus at least 3 or 4 extra buses from Flatbush doing the line. If the B11 ran from Raplh avenue during am ruh hrs and to ralph av during evening rush hours that could work. How hard is it for the B11 to turn at Raplh Avenue, the b6 used to end there occasionally.
The B11 was cut back to Flatbush Avenue because traffic congestion on 49th & 50th Streets made the line almost inoperable. The buses were always getting short-turned before getting to Rockaway Parkway because they were late! Of course, congestion on 49th & 50th Streets has gotten even worse since then.
David
David, Having lived in Canarsie at the time the B-11 was extended their and active in local transit groups the B-11 was never wanted
. At the time the B-11 was extended the B-6 service was cut. The B-6 was a better operated route then the B-11 because of the traffic congestion you mentioned on 49th/50th Streets. The B-11 was cut back for one reason. It just was not needed .
True, the route was cut back at a time when NYCT was looking for money, but the unreliability of the service and the inability to make it run better (for reasons that would start a whole new thread and probably get me killed for saying ) were the driving forces (if you will) behind the cutback.
David
David,
You are not 100% correct. You are 1000% Correct
Simon,There is really no need for the B-11 to go past Flatbush Avenue. The B-6 has sufficent service east of Flatbush Avenue with the rush hour extras between Nostrand Avenue and New Lots or Rockaway Parkway. As I said before the B-11 was never needed east of Fltabush Avenue.
If anything the B-11 should be extended to the Georgetown section of Brooklyn which has no service except for the B-78 Ralph Ave route. The B-11 should run via Flatbush Ave,Avenue K,Ralph Ave,Ave L to E.74 St/Ave M. To run the B-11 on the B-6 route is a waste of TA resources which can go to better use on my Georgetown extenstion to an area which has no service what so ever
Ah, the Georgetown idea is TOPS. And the Flatbush Terminal is better than Sutter on the 3.
I really enjoy reading about the old times bus service changes. Any more of them? There should be webpages compiling the data. For each number, it will tell you the routes that have used it, their history, predecessor companies, lines combined into it, lines combined into, lines split into. There's comprehensive subway data, there should be comprehensive bus data too!
How could I forget depots assigned to and equipment used. Those are the two things (the latter more so) that I have learned about most extensively since joining BusTalk.
Excellent idea!!!
From reading the posts on changes to different routes, maybe some of you would be interested in a 40 page issue of Motor Coach Age from June-July 1975. It is written by Bernard Linder, who is the esteemed historical writer of the ERA. It has loads of information on the history of each bus route, loads of pictures of buses, ridership figures, average headways, and history of the ownership of the operations. If anyone would be interested in a copy I can xerox it and mail it to you. The xeroxing and mailing comes to about $3.50. E-mail me with your address if you're interested.
There is a similar sized history by the same author of the Queens Bus Division, that I also have.
Does anyone have a list of all of the designated relief intersections(besides terminals) for all of the Jackie Gleason Depot routes? I would really aappreciate it,
Thank You
Here is the List from JG. The only one i don't know of is the B23.
B9-5th Av-60th St.
B11-49th/50th St-5th Av.
B16-14th Av-37th St.
B23-?
B35-Church av-mcDonald Av.(some change at 5th Av-39th St)
B37-3rd Av-39th St.
B43-Empire Blvd-Flatbush Av.
B51-Fulton Mall.
B61-Jay St-Willoughby St.
B63-39th St-5th Av.
B67-McDonald Avenue-Church Avenue.
B68-Prospect Park W-Bartel Prithcard Sq.
B69-19th St-Prospect PArk W.
B71-4th Av-Union St
B70-5th Av-39th Street.
B75-9th St-4th Av.
B77-9th Street-4th Av.
The B-23 I believe swings at New Utrecht Ave and 62nd Street . They travel via the B or M lines to 36 St Station and walk to the depot.
The B-43 i believe Pulls Out and Pulls In for all reliefs but I am not sure of this.
Thank You
Simon's list is mostly correct, except:
B16: Flatbush Avenue & Empire Boulevard
B23: New Utrecht Avenue Station (as Barry said in a subsequent post)
B61: Jay & Willoughby Streets is correct in one direction; it's Jay & Fulton Streets in the other
B69: Bartel Pritchard Square
B77: 10th Street & Fourth Avenue
Also:
B65: Fulton Mall
Since people like the list of ULP and JG of where bus drivers change drivers, time for the next one in brooklyn, Flatbush. List is below:
b2-Avenue S-Flatbush Avenue.
B31-Geritsen Av-Ave u(they may actually change drivers with the buses as well, but not sure about this).
B41-Flatbush Av-Avenue N.
B44-Flatbush Avenue-Nostrand Avenue.
B46-Utica Avenue-Filmore Avenue(and if bus is late, driver may pick bus from garage).
B49-Ocean Avenue-Avenue U.
B78-Kings Plaza/Ave U-e 54th St.
Again, Simon's list is mostly correct, except:
B31: Avenue R & Nostrand Avenue
B41: Flatbush Avenue & Avenue P (moved from Avenue N recently)
Another List for drivers and where they change. Hoepfully these are exact. if i am worng, please let me know.
Yukon:
S44/s94-Yukon Av-SI Mall.
S55/S56-Change of drivers instead of changing them on the buses.
S61/S91-Yukon Av-SI Mall.
S74-Richmond Avenue-Arthur Kill Road.
S78-Richmond Av-Hylan Boulevard.
S79-Yukon Bus Depot.
Castleton:
S40/S90-Richmond Terrace-Port Richmond Av.
S42-?
S46-Castleton Av-Jewett Avenue.
S48-Forest Avenue-Richomnd Avenue.
S51-Ferry.
S52-Ferry.
S53-Castleton Avenue-Jewett Avenue.
S54-Manor Rd-Castleton Ave.
S57-Port Richmond Terr-Richmond Avenue.
S60-change of bus instead of drivers.
S62/S92-Vctory Boulevard-Richmond Avenue.
S66-Jewett Avenue-Castleton Avenue.
S67-(Rush Hours only).
S76-Saint George Ferry.
The s59, s79, and s44 all change drivers at the depot on Yukon Ave, not at their terminal. s79 changes on trips to the Mall only.
The s55/56 change at Yukon Ave and Richmond Av.
-Hank
I hear the TA getting new buss from overseas. How true is it?
Yep MTA are getting 75 Breda Buses & will arrive in 2001. Ask Trevor Logan he know about Breda buses.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
is there any pics availble of the new breda buses yet?
Ask Trevor Logan he might have the picture of Breda Bus.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
see my posting
what about a pic of the new bus? do you have one of those yet?
here's a idea that on paper might have worked, but didn't. The B5(from Ulmer Park) and the B50(ENY) merged to become the B82. Runs were split between the 2 depots and finally ENY got the full route. I think they should combine depots but run it this way:
ULP-
B82-to Flatbush Av,
B82-to Starret City.
send ULP trips to Flatbush av and all eny trips to starrett city.
why didn't they just extend the B5 where the b7 runs instead. make it a full kings highway route.
The B5 and B50 were more similar in riding levels than the B5 and B7 were (or than the B7 and B82 are now), plus the peak direction on the B5 (eastbound) was the off-peak direction on the B50, meaning that a combined B5/B50 (called B82) would have full buses in both directions, over at least part of the route, during rush hours. This is much more efficient than the previous arrangement. Has it worked out? So-so, but neither route (B5 nor B50) was exactly a star performer when it ran by itself.
David
That was the original plan. To combine th B5 and B7. To Remsen Av and then the B78 was supposed to go to Bway-Halsey.......
B46M Limited
Before the (B5 & B50) were combined into the B82 among the ideas that were floated was a (B5-B7) combo but the ridership did not match. At one time there was talk of combining the (B78 And B40) into a thru Ralph Ave line. I don't no what ever happened to that idea. Also everyone is fogettng the B43 once the (B47 & B62).
Trust me on this; when the ta combines 2 lines into one it seldom
works as well as the 2 seprate lines did. As a bus operator 17
years,I have seen and worked these lines over the years and I can
tell you from first hand experience that some of these lines are
too long to work effectivly.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
here is another worse idea,combines with the b5 and b50 merge(having one depot doing it would have worked,,2 was silly).
Anyone remember when they combined the B8 with ULP and ENY. And again, to the ta's smart move, sent this line to ENY. Anyone know why? and why did they send the whole B82 route to ULP?
p.s. the only other combo line of depots they did i remember was the Q44 (CS and JA), but someone must have thought to put it at one depot, so all runs comes from CS. Why couldn't they do this in bklyn,make B82 0r b8 from one depot.
The B8 was sent to East New York in its entirety because of capacity problems at Ulmer Park. The B82 was sent in its entirety to East New York (not Ulmer Park) for the same reason.
David
is this the same reason that the B68 went from ulp to jg? i mean, it ran much better when ulmer park did it then now. the only good thing about it is the flyers we get to see.
Yes. The B68 was transferred from Ulmer Park to Jackie Gleason because of space limitations in Ulmer Park.
David
That's something I don't quite understand. Only on Staten Island and in Manhattan can you take a bus the lenth of a street. In Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx, going from one end of town to the other on the same road requires a change of buses. Granted, the Staten Island setup is one of neccesity, as most bus riders on SI are going to or from the SI Ferry.
-Hank
Brooklyn, Queens and The Bronx have several routes that travel the full lengths of their assigned streets:
B3 Avenue U
B17 Remsen
B25 Fulton
B26 Halsey
B35 Church
B37 3 Ave
B38 DeKalb
B44 Nostrand
B46 Utica/Malcom X
B48 Franklin
B57 Flushing
B60 Rockaway Ave
B63 5 Ave
B68 Coney Island Ave
Q3 Farmers Blvd
Q10 Lefferts Blvd
Q44 Main Street
Q46 Union Tpke
Q59 Grand
Q60 Queens Blvd
Bx1 Concourse
Bx12 Pelham/Fordham
Bx15 3 Ave
Bx33 138 St
That's all I can think of off hand.
staten island routes that travel the full route:
S40-Richmond Terrace
S62/S92-Victory Boulevard
S78-Hylan Boulevard
Manhattan:
M14-14th St
M23-23rd St
M34-34th St
M42-42nd st
M79-79th St
m86-86th st
m96-96th st
staten island routes that travel the full route:
S40-Richmond Terrace
S62/S92-Victory Boulevard
S78-Hylan Boulevard
Manhattan:
M14-14th St
M23-23rd St
M34-34th St
M42-42nd st
M79-79th St
m86-86th st
m96-96th st
also missed the following routes:
b35-Church Avenue
Bx41-Webster Avenue
W20-Westchester Avenue
Don't forget the B41, which does most, but not all, of Flatbush.
B38 Dekalb
B37 3Av
B57 Flushing Av
B63 5Av
B46M Limited
do you have a picture of the new Breda buses ny is supposed to get? if you do, please send or the link to see them
thanks
I had a picture, but it got lost in the TransiTALK Merger about 4 months back, I will try to dig it up and repost it!
Trevor
I saved the pic! It's on my other computer, so email me reminding m to give it to you.
Buses are being built,,,75 of them ,,,in Scotia--Glenville,,,in Schenectady Cty ,Steve
Here is the right information on all Academy RTS'S. All 50 and 60 series are 1983 RTS'S except 50-52. 50 is a 1978 RTS and 51-52 are 1979 RTS'S. None of the 50 and 60 series were previous NYCT Buses. As for the buses that Academy has from NYCT are 70 and 80 series buses. For the people who thought that any are 1981's, you are wrong. All are 1982's. Most of them are Transit Style, but they do have a few Suburbans. Here are NYCT Buses they have for the record: 1668, 1671, 1676, 1683-1684, 1701, 1708, 1710, 1715-1718, 1721, 1730, 1783, 1790, 1802, 1806 and 1851. You may have noticed as well Academy has Novas 1003-1026. For the people who don't know, those are used for the 22 Line, which are owned by NJ Transit. Academy does not own their own Novas at this time, maybe they will in the future. Some people may think they are owned by Academy because sometimes they can be found on lines that the buses were not assigned for. Those buses are only meant for the 22 Line and Boulevard East Line. Sometimes, they can be found on the Red Apple Line though even though its not what they are meant for.
Peace,
Jason
I can confirm that Jason's Academy information is correct based on the fact that Academy's 22 and Blvd Line runs past my house with the NJ Leased 1999 NovaBUS RTSs #1003-1026 and the 50-80 series RTSs. His inforamation on the 50-60 series bus is correct. Except for 53 which is a ex-MTA 1981 GMC RTS-04. Otherwise his information is concrete and correct.
Trevor Logan
They are now using new buses on their MetroPark Loop Service ( except for one driver who sitll has to use a flxible.)they are in ther 12xx series The buses ahev operated by Academy Express on their aside and are painted in NJT white and tri=color stripe.
Hows it Going,
Metropark is my hang out, and I am there all the time. Well for Metropark and Plainfield Contract, they do have the 1200's which are 1217-1226. The Flxible's they still have running are 1539, 1576,and 2251. Those Flxibles have barely any heat in them and barely run. How often are you down at Metropark? You might know who I am. I am a true bus buff and if you come down to Metropark, you defintely can't miss me and you would know who I am because I have my camera out quite often. If you don't mind me asking, were you a guy at Metropark one night taking a picture of bus 1225?
Peace,
Jason
Somehow, I doubt it...
BTW, if you're sending a private message, send it via email. No excuse for you, as the email address IS the handle...
-Hank
Hank,
I had nothing to hide so thats why I didn't send it via email. My reason being is that Metropark Station is my spot where I hang and I am seeing who is trying to take all my knowledge. Other reason being for anyone else who has been at Metropark can share their information and most of the time they would be wrong. My reason being is to correct them or to give additional information. I don't know why you would post a stupid message like you did. Its not even bus related. I am making this message public so everyone can view my thoughts and what I think of you. All, I really have to tell you if you are going to do such nonsense, do it somewhere else. I have read quite alot of the stuff you write, its plain STUPID or Garbage. Do you have to always critize someone over every little thing. I am sure most of the people here would love for you to get out. So what I am telling you, is for you to get the HELL out of here you god damn stupid moron. One more thing, you are no true bus buff, all you are is STUPID, LOUSY LOSER.
Jason
Agreed upon here!
Clayton Parker
Member of TransiTEENS
Division of TransiTALK
Agreed upon here too, David just reset BusTalk onto a new fresh start. Hank on the real, I have no beef with you, but if you have beef with what someone is doing and want to call cards, and THAT persons e-mail is there, address them that way. Try to keep BusTalk as clean as possible. Lately I have had to bite my tounge on a lot of things, I hope you can do the same!
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK Founder
I've been biting my tongue for months now. You know I used to be really down on the horrid spelling and grammar. And we all know I'm not the only one who dislikes those wondurous 'To:' 'From:' posts. As to people who can't form complete sentences calling others a 'lousy loser', well, we've been through that.
As for my 'I don't think so...' line, I happen to know some things about some of the people on these boards, and his scenario is impossible.
-Hank
My Home Station is MetroPark-- therefore every work day I pass through the station and see the Academy Express Buses (when I pass through there on my RDOs- regular Days Off.) I work overnight so I pass through the station late at night or mid morning ( I get off work at 1030am weekdays and 1215am weekends) and then I take PATH to Newark for NJT to MetroPark. I am in uniform.
What is interesting is many passengers at the station stop me and ask for NJT, Amtrak and even SEPTA info! I have also wound up being platform announcer for many a train where people unauthorized (wrong tickets) try to board- especially NJT riders trying to use Amtrak or Amtrak passengers tyrying to take NJT.
I did not find your message objectionable, but would prefer (to keep some of the others from getting upset) if you had a personal question that you use e-mail. Thanks! to all Bus Talkers- please cut the flame--I can feel the snow melting already!
Academy # 50-52 are 1978/79 RTS's that came from SEMTA in Michigan. #53 is ex NYCTA PA1591. The 1983 RTS's were originally from DART (Delaware Area Rapid Transit).
Academy also operates buses that are numbered in the 40 series, these buses can be seen at Newark International Airport operating under contract for Continental Airlines. Most of them are painted in Continental Airlines paint scheme.
those are the 35ft version. As well as they have a letter right next to the number. O49 is one. Z59, G60 and those are a few to mention. The way you can tell they go to the airport as well, is you have to look at the light on the roof of the bus. Those buses can be found running sometimes on the runway at Newark Airport.
Peace,
Jason
Does Academy run the Air Link (Route 302). SOmetimes I have seen RTS type (Nova Bus) vehicles on the market Street [21/22??] bridge as the train rolls past- and yes the Nova Air Link vehicles do have the AIr Link color Scheme- standard NJT plus the words Air Link
AirLink is run by New Jersey Transit.
NJT put it up for contract. They used to run it themselves but it is now under contract to a private operator
The Airlink run was operated by Academy, then it went to Red & Tan. So now Red & Tan operates the 302 Airlink from Newark Penn Station. Yes this run is done with new 1999 NovaBUS RTS-06 from NJT with the word "AIRLINK" Circling the bus.
Here is a photo of it by me.
Trevor
Thanks. When it was a Flxible type bus, they had luggage racks. DO they still have overhead luggage racks.
Had Floor Luggage Racks
Trevor
According to the Sept. 1999 timetable, Airlink (Route 302) is operated by O.N.E. Bus, Inc., a Coach-USA company. I recollect that Red & Tan may have operated it at one time, but it looks like ONE Bus does now.
Nope, Its Red & Tan, was there recently and all of the buses say on the bottom:
Owner: New Jersey Transit Bus Operations, Inc.
Operator: Red & Tan Tours, Inc.
So ONE does not operate the 302 AIRLINK. The only ONE bus that comes into Newark Penn Station is the 44 which has the New NovaBUS RTS-06 in the Coach USA Paint Scheme. Pictures of 302 and 44 Below
302 AIRLINK By Red & Tan
44 TREMONT By ONE Bus/Coach USA
This is very recent!
(Pictures by Trevor Logan)
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK
if these are supposedly newer NOVA's, how come MTA isn't runnig these types in service(on the private lines) or why no RTS-08 buses anywhere like they have in chicago?
Because with NovaBUS, you have a option. There is no more RTS-08, it is now the RTS-06 WFD (Wide Front Door). You can purchase the WFD at your own option. These buses, bought by NJT and contracted out are only about 7 months old and many are still being delivered. Still about 78 more to be delivered. Ordering buses are to each transit authority's descretion, whatever options the TA or NJT chooses makes there buses. TA like uniformity and so does NJT.
I live in NJ!
Trevor
I just realized that 53 is a ex NYCT Bus. My appologies, its a 1981. At one time they were changing numbers back and forth so, it did get confusing. I remembered right now that 53 was a 1981.
Peace,
Jason
I have been repainting an ex Port Authority GM 5307A *glasstop* as a nycta bus # 5285. Its almost dont and I need a complete set of exterior stickers for it. I would like the newer style. If anyone can help me out or hook me up with someone who would know, please email me. I will have pics scanned soon. As you may know, this is the ONLY Port Authority of NY & NJ glasstop left. I have 2 others but they are wrecked
Well yes, if I drive it because I tend to stop off at Katz's or Yonah Schimmel's. But seriously, the M21 is a reasonably crosstown route. It has bigger headways because of low usage. If ridership increases, TA will increase service- eventually.
The M12 Spring Street crosstown was discontinued because of low ridership. Despite neighborhood gentrification, it's doubtful that Spring Street service will be available. As for a route that runs from Battery Park and turning right on Spring Street, I foresee little, if any interest. (What might be interesting would be to have the M1 terminate at Houston Street instead of 8 Street and terminate the M6 at Houston Street, with the M5 picking up the slack. But , this won't happen.)
to all drivers today, be careful. My graditude to a driver on the X29(run #003-bus #9294) who let me on even though my card was invalid instead of letting my freeze in the snow. Fast trip. took about 1 hour-15 minutes from my stop to midtown.
In a snow related question,, how do drivers clear off the front sign on a RTS bus during the snow? I know this is because of a slopped foward sign that makes the snow there, and this doesn't happen on a
Orion,New Flyer or MCI. Did the TA know this when they ordered the bus?
Also, did Yukon have a problem getting the express buses out this morning? I don't know what time the snow started, but i know some of Yukon's express buses are stored outside during the night. If there was a ny trouble or occurence, or if anyone can answer these questions, let me know.
Many runs were annulled today, and the buses were far from full. There were about 10 buses at AK this morning when I got there, all running. Some were being sent (presumably) back to the depot.
-Hank
What's AK? The only thing I can think of is Alaska.
Arthur Kill Rd and Richmond Ave on Staten Island. It's the originating terminal for the x1,4,5,6,7,8,15, and 31. It's a stop for the x17, and the s74 uses it to turn around on trips to Richmond Ave. Lately the TA has been parking the MCIs there overnight.
-Hank
To answer Simon's question about Snow on the Front Destination Sign...
When the RTS coaches were ordered, the glass that covers the destination sign was heated like the rear window of a car is. When the heat would be turned on, it would defrost the snow.
The original glass was destroyed on almost every coach when they would return to UP at night on the x27. The chains hanging down from the clearance bar pole at the entrance to the Belt Parkway @ Fort Hamilton were hanging too low and almost every bus hit it. The city DOT took months to fix it. I'm not sure if it still happens.
I saw #3590 yestrday on the M5. Assigned to Manhattanville depot and still said on the side New york city transit authority and on the other side, same thing, with the MTA label on the drivers side and the M label on the passanger side. hope somone can get a picture of this bus soon before they decide to remove it from service.
I have a pic of her at 43 St and Madison Ave on the M2. It's a rear pic though- reason being is because I was waiting for Q32 to Queens and I couldn't get across 43 St to get the front or side of her and also because it was at night. By Friday, she'll be up on TransiTalk.
MM2000
does anyone know how they change runs for bus lines in Queens for Triboro,jamaica,Green,Queens Surface and Command? do they get the same bus for the whole day or do they change drivers midday. if anyone knows, would love to know.
I don't know about today but I remember as a youngster taking the
Q-60 to Jamaica station quite often. When the bus pulled into the stop on Queens Blvd between Hillside and Jamaica (a narrow 2-way street for one block) the drivers would change and hang out at the candy store waiting for their next bus. Probably also used the facilities. (That's in response to a post about 10 days ago.)
Would I kid you guys ?
Sometimes this job is ALMOST fun ... I got a call that our farebox had eaten a customer's MetroCard (it doesn't usually, it typically it ends up in the "Capture Bin" (that's where the used Transfers go) if it doesn't come back out the top of the fare box). The bus was back from it's AM run, my guys took a look see & came up with two MCs, so I had to visit the Main Street subway station at lunch on this sunny day to see if one of the cards had any money on it. One of them had $12.00 so I brought it up stairs. I was given the business card, left with our driver, for Charles & Jerry Chan. His MC is now in the mail after a little bit of detective work on our part :-)
Mr t
Good work white man!
I am looking for the Following info ====
Most of the 12 24 44 Buses terminate in the Bus Station.Railroad Station on Raymond Blvd
Does anyone know if Buses terminate N of Raymond Blvd,Nr Mulberry St,,I need the EXACT Routing
Thanks
Steve
The Route #44 goes to Penn Station Bus Station. I don't think there is a Route #12 any more; perhaps it was merged into the #24. The Route #24 does not go to Penn Station. Rather, it is a through route in Newark, coming from Orange (in the West) to Elizabeth (in the South). Orange, Newark, Elizabeth - hence, the name O.N.E. Bus. I'll e-mail you some additional info.
Thank you
Does anyone have detailed info on the 22 and Blvd East routes
Thanks
Steve
Route 22 from Hoboken to Cliffside Park
Start at Hoboken Transit Terminal
Exit out to Hudson Street and makes a right on to Hudson Street then..
R Hudson Place
L River Street
R Frank Sinatra Drive
R Hudson Street
L 14th Street
L 14th Street Viaduct
R Paterson Plank Road
R Palisades Avenue
L 16th Street
R New York Avenue
L 47th Street
R Bergenline Avenue which turns into Anderson Ave at the Hudson/Bergen Border.
R Columbia Avenue (Fort Lee)
L Palisades Avenue
L Winston Drive
R Norman Drive
R Palisades Avenue
Ends at NJ Transit Winston Towers Terminal in Cliffside Park
Boulevard East Line
Start at Hoboken Transit Terminal
Exit out to Hudson Street and makes a right on to Hudson Street then..
R Hudson Place
L River Street
R Frank Sinatra Drive
R Hudson Street
L 14th Street
R Park Avenue
R Lincoln Harbor
R Port Imperial Drive
L 48th Street Viaduct
R Boulevard East
Ends at Boulevard East & Fairview Avenue at the Hudson-Bergen Border.
Hope this has helped.
Trevor Logan
Thank you
Do you have return routings,,,and the Turnaround on the Blvd East Bus ,,at the North End of the Line
Steve
Route 22 Returning
Starts at Palisades Avenue at Winston Towers
Continues Northbound on Palisades Avenue
L Columbia Avenue
L Anderson Avenue which turns into Bergenline Avenue
L 15th Street
R Palisades Avenue
L Paterson Plank Road
L 14th Street Viaduct
R 14th Street
R Hudson Street
L Frank Sinatra
L River Street
R 1 Street
L Hudson Street
L Into Hoboken Terminal
Boulevard East to Hoboken
Begins at Woodcliff Avenue & Bergenline Avenue
Continue East on Woodcliff Avenue
R Palisade Avenue, enter into Hudson Park
L Boulevard East
L 48th Street Viaduct
R Port Imperial Drive
L Lincoln Harbor
L Park Avenue
L 14th Street
R Hudson Street
L Frank Sinatra
L River Street
R 1 Street
L Hudson Street
L Into Hoboken Terminal
There you go!
Trevor
Thanks
Hank,
Before I say Anything I am quite sorry if anyone might be offended by the language I might use. ASSHOLE all I have to say is that in the last message I made a typo. I don't want to hear any bull shit from you about typos.
Jason
I would have to say that's pretty uncalled for and rather childish.
-Hank
Today on my way to work, I had the pleasure of riding 8397 on the M5. She performed like a champ in the snow, fast-smooth-and graceful.
She has the Dark Greystone panels in the front like the 1998-99 Novas, the Luminator MINI MEGA MAX Sign, Very clean interior.
Who ever else gets a opportunity to ride this bus is in for a treat.
Trevor Logan
8397 is the former Methanol bus that was overhauled as a hybrid, right? I'm back at work on 5th Ave, but I have't seen any of the Orion hybrids I used to see.
The big question is, how did the artics and LF buses do in today's mess? Anyone ride them?
The MCIs worked pretty well, although the one I rode into Manhattan this morning (OK, yesterday at this point) spun its wheels going uphill in slush on Richmond Ave and on Stuben St. Oddly, the expected 'jerk' when the tires finally bit never appeared.
-Hank
only had one problem on tuesday morning with my ride. i took the X29 in, and besides for the snow, it handeled well, except comnig into stops in midtown. but the dfriver came to the curb and it helped.
was on NOVA Bus #9294, handled well.
If capacity is the problem for Ulmer Park to handle the B8,B68 and B82, can they handle the B2 and B31? I kept hearing rumors for the last year or so that ULP will get either both or at least one of those lines in the next system pick. Is this rumor true an is Ulmer Park to lose anymore lines(The other rumor i heard was they wanted to turn Ulmer Park into a all express depot and lines would move to these places:)
B1-JG
B3-FLA
B4-JG
B6-ENY
B36-FLA
B64-JG
B74-FLA
though i could be wrong.
Ulmer Park will only receive the B-2 and B-31 if Flatbush goes 100% articulated. Since no one knows if or when this is going to happen is anyones guess.
The idea of turning Ulmer Park into an 100% Express depot is not going to happen. Ulmer Park is a Brooklyn Depot and hence is a TWU Depot. Lets say it is done the only routes that can be transferred are from Staten Island which is ATU.
Again this WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!
The B-2 and B-31 need arcs during the evening rush. some people have to watch two buses go by befeore they can get on one
So does the M14. I've seen the same thing happen, the bus just bypasses the stop (this is a stop during morning rush where many people want to get on, but nobody get's off.
WELL THIS HAPPENS AT THE KINGS HIGHWAY TERMINAL. sTART OUT with empty bus. Pull out full bus. I am not disputing the need for arcs on other line. I'm just trying to point out that the b2 and b31 do not need to be moved from flatbus if it goes all arcs. In fact it does not make sense. The b2 runs within 2 blocks of flatbush depot. If moved to ulmer park. The bus would have to travel a distance further than its entire route until it crosses it route
If Flatbush were to get artics, it would be ALL-artic. Even though it would cost something to move the B2 and B31 to Ulmer Park (because of all the dead mileage involved in pullouts and pullins, and the long travel time for road reliefs if there were any), it would still be done to get the last 40-footers out of Flatbush. The savings from artics would be so great as to make it worth doing anyway.
Of course, this all depends on Flatbush getting artics, which, as has been said several times, is not in stone.
David
is there any plans in the next system pick to move the b68 back to ulmer park, or is running better at JG now than it did at ulp? i can't be sure on that, because last night, i saw 3 IN A row running to to Bartel Pritchard Square(one of them was the flyer).
It wold be nice to bring back the B68 to ULP. The depot could use the run, at least if they have the room. do they have the room for the b68, or what's at ulp is all there is(until the 5200's series arrives from Gun Hill to relieve the older 3000's series).
p.s. saw #1760 on the B1 last night. looked okay from what i could see.
#1760 is a good bus. Remember riding her a lot on Q46 when she was at QV.
MM2000
There are no plans at this time to move any Brooklyn routes around.
David
Moving the B2 and B31 to ulmer park isn't as crazy as you think.
Reliefs for both lines could be made at E16 st/kings hwy.Travel
time to the relief point would be about 2o minutes on the B82.
Run ons and run offs would take about 10 minutes.They could even
use run ons and run offs to supplement service on the B82 between
Cropsey Av and E16 St.
ANDY/UP
I never said moving the B2 and/or B31 would be "crazy." I just said it would be expensive, but that the savings from having Flatbush be all-artic would offset the cost.
David
What really need to be done is to have flatbus be converted to CNG and then buy arcs for it. The residents living around flatbush are getting sick from the combination of diesil exhust and the thousands of gallons of deisil fuel that has leeked from broken tanks under flatbus depot. The TA has known about the problem since 1989 and has done nothing to correct it untill it hit the papers recently.
Hey, do you know anything about the new bus depot bring built in Queens, and where it's located?
There's one proposed for an old Avis facility in Maspeth. It will be in the Brooklyn Division.
Why is it that when I try to change my name, it never registers the first time. The name change for the first post is successful, but for in order to keep it, I have to remember to retype it the next time. I don't need this hassle, from now on I'm going to write a blank message to change my name, unless I find a topic. I will post this to SubTalk.
COOKIES!
I was told it was already built. If it does happen, what lines would go their?
I think it would be routes from Fresh Pond. And FP could get routes from ENY and so on.
I know. What I hearing is that all the Queens out of ENY and FP would go their. I also know that JG would loose the B43 and B61. Another question, will their be a system pick ia April? Thanks
that will be a central maintenance facility not a depot.
Actually, the Maspeth facility (if it happens) will be a depot, not a central maintenance facility. The new CMF will be adjacent to Gun Hill Depot in the Bronx.
David
Is the rumor true that during the next system pick,the B1 & B64 will go to Jackie Gleason?
probably not. the last time they moved the b4 to JG, it ran terribly and it got resent to ULP. If they lose the b1 and B4, what will they get in return?
The rumors at up have the B6 going to eny.There are also rumors
of a new express route for up that will run down Bay Ridge Pkwy,
a former Metro Apple route.
ANDY/UP
the old metro apple route on bay ridge parkway was called the BM15. if you lose the B6(as you say, rumor to eny) and the b1 and b4 to jg(another rumor) then i guess ulp will become a all express depot and they will close it on weekends.
what would happen to the B3,B36,B64 and B74 if this happens?
Where do all these rumors come from?!?! I'll tell you:
1. A "wish" list. Somebody wonders, "Wouldn't it be nice if...."; someone else believes it and passes it along. [The union leadership at Casey Stengel is notorious for this - they make a request, and the fact that management SAT THERE AND LISTENED is construed as agreement.]
2. A "fear" list. Somebody wonders, "Wouldn't it be terrible if...."; somebody else believes it and passes it along. [Everybody does this.]
3. An experiment. Somebody creates a rumor just to see how far it will travel and how much it will be twisted.
Enough with the rumors. Stuff will happen when it happens, period.
Does anyone know a website where I can get the list of all the stops for any bus route within the city?
I don't think one exists. It'd be a huge undertaking, that's for sure.
-Hank
You might want to contact the Boro President's Office in each Boro,or City Planning in reference to this typ e of information.They would definitly have that type of information.
Due to the amount of Bus Routes in NYC,and the fact that each route,or so,,stops about every 2 blocks ,,you are talking about a very large amount of information
Steve
Avenue B operated four routes: the M-7, M-8, M-9, and M-10. The 8 (Grand Street crosstown) 9 (Union Square/14th Street) were the original company routes.
[The M-8 is NOT to be confused with todays M-8. The 8th Strreet Crosstown route was originally the route 13 operated by New York City Omnibus and later MaBSTOA.]
They also operated race track service using Mack C-49s. The service was operated to: Yonkers, Aquaduct, and Roosevelt.
These Macks were number 501-504 (C-49DM) and 505-506 (C-49DT). They were in suburban configuration. Air conditioning equipment from Thermo (NOT ThermoKing!) Equipment Company were added later. These buses were eventually replaced by used New Looks.
What was the M-10 route operated by Avenue B?
The M-7 was an express route from 110 St/5 Ave to Wall Street area.
This was later merged into the M23X when it was taken over by MABSTOA and is now the x-90.
The M-8 was the Grand Street Crosstown which was discontinued by the TA later and the M-9 is the East Broadway/Avenue B route is still around as well as the Race Track routes.
The M-10 operated by the TA was a Fifth Avenue/NYC Omibus route.
Please advise.
Thank You
Good Day,'
I am looking for Destination Sign Readings for Independant Carriers in these areas.
O N E Bus 12 24 44
(12 is a PT Variation of the 24)
S Orange Av Bus 31
Central Av
Bergen Av
Broadway
Carefree
Red and Tan Local Services
DeCamp Local Service
TransHudson 10 33 99 99S
124 144
Thanks
Steve
Yesterday on the M14 I spotted 3928 with no depot sticker. Is this a temp. fill-in?
It's from X-Town- guess it's a fill in out of HP. Used to be a JAM bus. 3902, 3919, 3924, 3936, 3942 and 3950 are among former buses at X-Town that are operating again.
MM2000
3924 was on Q46 today- a former X-Town Bus.
mm2000
Saw this bus on the B8 laid up at Brookdale Hosp. The back sign had a blue green light. I think that it was mentioned in the past. Can I get some more info on this???????? Thanks
B46M Limited
Most of the buses out of Kingsbridge have these, if they don't have LED signs. I've yet to see an explanation.
-Hank
I've seen a few buses with these blue and green lights in the rear. Here are just a few:
From QV: 4343. There are 8300s like that also but can't remember which ones off the top of my head.
From CS: 575, 660.
That's all I can remember right now. I know there are plenty more. Explanation why they chose these type of signs is unknown.
MM2000
Just saw on the news that NJT bus (looked like) 2736, a Nova, was completely destroyed by a person playing with matches in the rear of the bus.
I'm trying to find some info on some Steinway Transit Fishbowls. There's a pic on TransitTalk showing 357 & 360. I like to find out the manufactured year and model of these two.(Possibly Canadian built). I've been to Bus Rosters on the Web and Ohio Museum of Transportation web sites and cannot find these there. Also on this web site on Joe Testagrose's collection, there is a pic of Steinway 115. I cannot find that bus either. Any info will be appreciated.
No promises, but I'll see if I can find an old file with this info. I'll make the effort the next time I have a reason to go to the other building here.
Mr t__:^)
Thanks, really appreciate your time.
I remember these (high 300 series) fishbowls at Steinway. I always thought they were second hand buses and I'm pretty sure they weren't Canadian fishbowls. Steinways' other 300 series buses were largely GMC T6H-5306A. Steinway's Canadians (T8H-5307A) were #'s 3 thru 23 or 24???. Some of you may remember that some of Steinways Canadian fishbowls originally had a somewhat wild paint scheme. They had the usualy black window treatment, but they were yellow with thin stripes (I think red and green). They also had "Air Ride" on the passenger side just above the bumper. Now those were some real buses with awesome power and good looks too. Now we have todays new buses - How depressing!
Wayne
The Steinway fishbowls you referred to with the wild, yellow paint scheme (I think there were about 8 of them, maybe #3-10) were buses that were produced for a different operator, who didn't take them. I suspect Steinway got a good deal buying them in the paint scheme of the non-accepting operator. I forget who that operator was, but recollect it was somewhere in central or western Canada. I thought they were quite good-looking in that scheme. I believe they had rather comfortable padded seats also, perhaps blue in color and slightly molded.
Thanks for the info. I was thinking that Steinway might have been experimenting with a new color scheme. Does anyone remember a somewhat "special" GM/Canada fishbowl in Queens Transits' fleet? I believe it was #799 and it had what sounded like a 6V-92TA engine instead of the 8V-71N.
I learned Saturday night that those yellow Steinway new looks were originally headed for a suburb of Minneapolis, Minn., and not somewhere in Canada. I forget the exact operator, but it still has buses in that color scheme.
It might be Rochester City Lines (Transit ??? maybe) in MN. They use yellow buses and usually buy second/third hand equipment.
RDChilds
I believe the owner of Rochester City Lines has a transit operation very nearby, and that is where the Steinway fishbowls were originally headed. Both operations may use the same paint scheme.
I don't know specifics about Steinway's GMC New Look buses, but if you want to research delivery lists for New Look buses built by GMDD of Canada, links can be found at the 'Bus Rosters on the Web' site. The address is :
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9036/index.html
- Jim (RailBus)
i was on a Steinway Fishbowl(or i think it was). It ran on the Q101 and was a 35 ft bus. the number was #198 and it looked like what the old 5000's series were fro nycta(not the upodated blitz ones). If anyone can tell me if this was a fishbowl or a different model, let me know. because i remember seeing these models at Command Bus(at the time they were called Pioneer).
The bus that you described was a Flxible New look. Queen/Steinway Transit had several of these second hand 35 foot (non air-conditioned) Flxibles. They were White and Blue, but several of them had the Queens /Steinway Transit Orange/Cream and name applied to the front end. The term new look is used for both GM and Flxible buses. The fishbowl term is a nickname given to GM new look buses. Steinway Tranist used to have one 35 foot GM/Canada fishbowl (T6H-4523N) which was #323.
Wayne
Anybody remember these 35 footers out of Steinway Transit/Queens Surface back in 1993:
306-308, 310-311 were converted to 1306-1308, 1310-1311, 720, 723, 726-727, 442, 483-485, 492, 495-499? 1306-1308, 1310-1311 had blue seats on her- very similar to the MTA seats except 2 were on each side.
40 footers: 600-606, 1362-1366 Were used for Express Service
Local: 616, 618, 620, 622, 624-625, 628, 1488, 1492, 1496?
How about Grummans at Steinway/QS:
410-420, 422-424, 426-429, 800-808, 812-813, 815, 818, 820-823, 826-828, 830-831, 834, 836-840.
I remember this was the only time I rode QS RTS 235- back in 1993.
I also remember a few of the CTC Grummans: 101-136?! They had 107 and 111 there at CTC with GL scheme on it.
As far as Fishbowls were concerned, all I remember are 621, 624, 744, 746-748, 751-752, 755, 760.
GL I only saw 2 fishbowls: 609-1 I think was a 35 footer and 975-1 which was a 40-footer that was in Jamaica Bus Lines scheme.
MM2000
GBL operated a few Jamaica Buses fishbowls (T8H-5307A not Canadian). GBL's newest fishbowls didn't seem to last long at all. 301-315??? (T6H-5307A) and 355-364 (GM/Canada T8H-5307A).
QS had some formaer Bee-Line fishbows as well as former NYBS suburban fishbowls, GM deck and a halfs.
Wayne
GBL also had some GMC New looks that were aquired from Jamaica Bus Lines. I remember being on these, because they were running on th Q22 or the Q35 line. they were painted in green but under it said, leased by Jamaica Bus Corp. Why did Jamaica do this? becasue green was short? If they are that short, let the got to Command's storage yard and get some of the RTS that Command are not using(#351-#370)
and how short of buses is green and triboro and when are newer buses expected?
Simon,It was done for tax reasons. Green showed it as an expense and Jamica showed it as income and a write off.
Thank You
BTW the model # T6H-4523N tells you most of what you need to know about the bus
T = transit body P= Parlor (Intercity) S= Suburban
6 = 6 cyl. engine 8= 8 cyl.
H = hydralic of automatic transmission vs M for manual or stick shift
45 = 45 seats in the most common configuration of a 35' bus 53=40'bus
23 = is the model number. New look 35' models were 17, 19, 21, and 23
The 40' model numbers were different and reflected if they were 96" or 102" wide A 5308 was the 4th series 40'96" wide bus I think the 5309 was the 102" counterpart. Someone else may have beter info about the 40' model ##s
4517 were 1959 to 1962 4519 63-66 4521 67-71 4523 1972 to 1977
The first 4523 went to Madison Wis the last went to Wausau Wis and the 12 Wausau buses were the only US built 4523's or the only US built new looks with V730 trans.
The 40' X 102" buses were indeed odd numbered (5301-5309), however they strayed a bit at the end of production as NYCTA has some T6H-5310A which were also 102 inches wide.
Also there is:
A - A/C equipped
N - Non A/C
Wayne
You are right by the time I go to the end of my post I had forgotten about the A and N designation The new buses do not have the same coding system and are more difficult to know what kind of bus they are
The RTS numbers are not that easy to decode but somewhere there is a table that identifies the meaning of the serial numbers.
Yes, I've seen it in my GMC RTS II-04 operators' manual. Now - if I could only remember where I had stored the manual.
Wayne
I used to live over on Roosevelt Island and can remember the 400 series fishbowls and the 500 series, neither of which had a/c. I believe the 400 series were shorties.
Been there at Bus Rosters on the Web. I couldn't find any of those there. Perhaps they were aquired second hand. Thanks again!
Yesterday while on Broadway and DeKalb Avenues I saw some RTS's that had a small orange light above the headlights on only the driver's side. Most of them were illuminated. Not all RTS's had them, I remember #8421, 48XX, 49XX and 50XX.
What is it for?
When it's on I believe it indicates that the brake retarder system is deactivated. This is standard practice during rainy (and snow) weather.
Wayne
We have it on the Ride-On buses here in suburban DC and I've always wondered what it is for. It is on the right of the destanation signs and under the sign in the back on some of the Gillig buses (not sure what year).
Yes, I've ridden those Gilligs several times. It's on the '95 through '97 buses. I'm pretty sure Ride-On's 1997 Orion V's also have this feature. BTW Ride-On has a brand new '00 (or '99) Orion V's. They are numbered in the 5700 series and so far I've seen them on the 12 and 15 routes.
Wayne
no retarder on 4800 series. its on all buses since 1993.
did the rts buses that ulp get from yukon get a overhaul or a paint job? i saw #4880 on the X27 last night and it looks like it got repainted. did this happen to the ones from yukon only, cause i also saw it on #9333 on tuesday.
4880 was oh and painted and returned to yukon where it stayed idol until its transfer to up. 4888 was involved in a crash and was oh and repainted in nov. buses 9250-9349 are 1997 models and are getting their scheduled overhauls in 2000. nyct jumped the gun and started in1999.
does ulp plan to overhaul and repaint the 4700's that came from amsterdam(some ot them have paint peeling on the room and mixed-matched sliding windows and scratched). or are they going to be scrapped?
I also know they plan to retire the 3000's at ulp. do u know when they will be gone as well?
Not all buses from 1993 have a retarders. The 1996 90## that are at MV, UP, FP, 126 and were ever else DON'T have them for some reson.
Reduced Price per unit for each bus. The 1996 RTS purchase was for 600 units. In order to buy 600 units in one shot, retarderless transmissions made the price for each bus cheaper and therefore we were also able to add on extra suburban units to follow in 1997. Does the 97 suburban RTS's have retarders?
Peace & Blessings!
DaShawn Pretlow
Indeed they do.
-Hank
Does any body here think the TA will buy the METRO BUS??
Only by using a WABAC machine or by buying used buses. Flxible's out of business.
David
What's a WABAC machine?
It's spelled Wayback.
At the risk of going off topic: It's spelled "WABAC," as I spelled it, but it's pronounced "Wayback." It was a time machine invented by Mr. Peabody (he of "and his boy Sherman" fame), one of the "Adventures of Rocky & Bullwinkle" characters. And, as I said, it's the only way anyone's going to see NYCT order new Flxibles.
David
From what I understand Flexible went out of business in 1996/97just as the TA put an order in for 50 Metro's (which would have been the TA 's 1st Flexible order in 16yrs)Alas they went belly up and Orion picked up the order(631-680)They were slated for YUK(which has since been X-fered to CS).MCI however has from what I heard picked the rights and design for the Metro.Can it do what it did for the Classic after GM-Canada dropped it and will the TA purchase it from MCI like it doing with the suburbans now.I for one would love to see MCI start manufacturing the Metro and seeing the TA start purchasing it.
According to Flxible production lists I have, those 50 buses ordered but never built were actually assigned serial numbers AND they actually had NYCTA numbers assigned to them.
They were supposed to be serials SD106373 to SD106422, and the NYCTA numbers were going to be 1900-1949. According to Flxible, delivery was supposed to have been in 12/95, but as we all know, it did not happen.
This is information is current as of 5pm today from NYC Bus's Department of Buses:
New Flyer D45S Viking #996 is at Ronkonkomo. Will see service as soon as next week Wednesday. Other two will follow in about 3 days.
39 of the new New Flyer D60HF have been delivered, 2 of which are at Westside.
140 Option from the existing New Flyer D60 order has been taken. 71 of them will go to 126th Street and the others to Westside.
1st RTS Hybrid from NovaBUS is due in the second week of Febraury.
Have a blessed day.
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK
please try to get a pic of the new bus #996..if you can.
WILL DO!
Trevor
It looks like Flatbush is not getting any artics anytime soon.........
B46M Limited
nope they are not! Plans serious had changed for artic assignments!
Trevor
That a good news & the bad news is just i told you people couple months ago that Flatbush Depot is not getting Artics.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Thanks to a screen name "MEWANTABANANA", i finally got a picture of the breda bus being ordered by the TA. I am not sure how to put the picture from my email to here, so if anyone wants this picture, please email me to get it.
That is not the same model that we are recieving, he sent me the pic already, the model is similar but its gonna be more "Americanized"!
Trevor
More "americainized"? Do you just mean putting the doors on the right and the steering wheel on the left, or more than that?
Although I doubt that's it, because in the pic the door is on the right already. Excuse me, doors.
The design is gonna be slightly different, not so much European-like.
Trevor
MEWANTABANANA is Tevi. To post it, simply type in <'s img src=filename.gif or .jpg>.
Of course, it needs to be on the net already, otherwise you get nothing.
-Hank
And not <'s img, just <img in the tag.
Also, you have to put in the whole URL in the filename area, the one you would have to type in the address bar. It would be on a different server.
While i was watching the news on Ch 7 & saying the bus Orion #6342 from SI got into accident with the car on the wet road. I didn't get enough information about the accident so watch the news later tonight.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Saw that too. A young girl and maybe her mother were injured. I don't think it's that serious, hopefully. A speedy recovery for them!
The car driver backed out of her Tompkins Ave driveway either without looking, or she slid on the ice when she tried to stop. Her car hit the bus, the bus then hit a parked car, according to a driver I spoke to today.
-Hank
The bus had to be a 6000 series. Damn
Hope they get better.
More Americanized? More conservative looking?
I like Euro-style buses like Neoplan, Vanhool, Dina and Setra.
They look high class. I hope the rear seats are on a elevated deck.
I hope in the future transit buses with have a full dash, Euro-style rocker switches and a higher deck for passengers.
Whats your favorite transit, intercity bus?
My Favorite Transit Bus is a tie between any Flxible METRO & New Flyer D60!
Trevor
I saw Orion 245 with a Mother Hale sticker operating the M100 route and a 6000 series number I can't remember. I know the M100 doesn't run out of Mother Hale . Does anyone know if they are tranfering buses?
There maybe "Tripper" runs from Hale effective the new pick. Really don't know don't quote me. But I have seen Amsterdam Orions on the Bx36 latley too!
Trevor
As many of you may know from my past postings, Viking 996 was a Ronkonkomo after delivery! But as of 4pm today, My brother spotted her out at Atlantic Detroit Diesel in Lodi, NJ. Since I live close by it, I will attempt a photo shoot tomorrow morning, expect a picture by Monday or Tuesday of next week on TransiTALK and here on BT, IF I'M LUCKY ENOUGH TO GET IT WITH OUT GETTIN BUSTED BY SECURITY AT DETROIT DIESEL!
Otherwise this bus may see its home at Yukon as quickly as Wednesday of next week!
997 and 998 to follow in a few days. 997 was here before but went back to New Flyer!
Trevor
Why would a bus be moved from Ronkonkoma, LI (actually Bohemia) to Lodi, NJ a distance of 60 or 70 miles, if its the same company repairing the bus? Was it for a road test? If not, I hope it was towed rather than putting unnecessary mileage on a new vehicle.
I Believe that every Detroit Diesel that NYCT deals with have to check out the bus.
Trevor
Probably because it'll be SI based, and DD is still working on it. Most SI buses that need that kind of major work go to NJ, while the rest seem to go to LI.
-Hank
While it would be very nice to see a photo of 996, I am disturbed by the idea of trespassing on private property to obtain such photo.
BusTalk seems to consist of reasonable people, and I'm sure most members would share my willingness to wait a day or two for a picture taken legally.
Ulmer Park rts 4016 was riding around with a broken farebox. I picked up the bus at the Ave U D,Q station around 9 PM
So if the farebox is broken can you ride for free?
Yes you can ride free if the farebox is broken & when the driver finish his trip than the bus will go out of service & call the depot about the farebox is broken.
Was in Atlantic city last night and I saw these very short RTS's from NJ transit on the 505 route. Anyone have any info on these short RTS's?
Novabus has been cataloguing a 30-footer for about four years now. I believe the model is T60606 for a narrow bus.
Complete Coach Works of Riverside, California, also "makes" a 30-foot RTS. Their version is a remanufactured, usually -04 series, bus that has had one frame module removed. Their original "demonstrator" was formerly Southern California Rapid Transit District #8626, a 1982 T80204. CCW (under their Transit Sales International division) buys a LOT of used fleets up, so has a good supply of decent RTS's to work from, though I do not know of any orders for their 30-footer yet. (Much of TSI's stuff winds up being sold to Tijuana, Mexico and other cities south of the border....with no rebuilding or even repainting. Once th stuff gets down there, they get out their paintbrushes and paint blue over the former owners' paint jobs, so if one is "up" on the paint schemes, it's easy to determine a bus's heritage.)
the demo bus actually began life as a 40'er so two modules were removed to make the 30'er
Yeah, you're right. I'm getting so old I am forgetting how to count.
They say memory is the second thing to go.....
Those were 30-footers that you saw. Along with the current order of about 600 40-foot Nova RTS's to replace the Grumman Flxibles, NJ Transit ordered about 80 of the 30-footers. I believe they have been distributed to Atlantic City, Camden and Morris (County) Metro. My pictures of #2570 and 2571 utilized by Morris Metro can be found on my Contributor's page at TransiTALK; the address is:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Highway/2087/Sid.html
As I mentioned before, the "modified" NJ Transit paint scheme is probably due to the fact that the "normal" NJ Transit paint scheme wouldn't look great on a 30-foot bus.
The are really good looking buses and I would love a chance to operate one.
Is the reason for these buses running on these lines because of low ridership or for a safer enviroment crime wise?
I don't know the answer for Atlantic City and Camden, but to the best of my knowledge, ridership on Morris Metro routes never warrants a 40 foot bus. I suspect a 30 footer is enough for all Morris Metro runs.
By the way, a friend of mine mentioned that the engines in the 30 footers are the same as those in the 1000 series 40 footers, so I'll bet those 30 footers really move!
Try and not do a wheelie when taking off The front ends must be very light
I got a great question for transit buffs. There are NYCTA New Flyer buses with the paint sceheme already to hit the road coming from State College, PA to New York City. They are simliar to the 800 series coming out of Jackie Gleason. Anyone know why these buses are making the 300 mile trip from State College to NYC. Also there are buses in Jackie Gleason From the Bronx like the Bus #5297, the ones with those vandal proof seats. Are those being sent to make room for those 60ft acurltered modles. Try to turn one of those down a narrow street. I seem to like those new buses Jackie Gleason is getting some nice modles in now. Can anyone get me a sticker or hat from Jackie Gleason or a tour of the place that would be so cool.
Great Messasge Board.
All right. I'll said it once, I'll say it again.
THE ARTICS DO NOT HAVE A TIGHTER TURNING RADIUS!!! THEIR HINGE MAKES IT EASIER TO TURN.
Whoa... calm down.
This is the first time I've seen this guy on the board, he might not have known.
New Flyer buses are "finished" in Clarkston, Minnesota. I don't think it is unreasonable for them to travel through Pennsylvania on their way to New York City.
You mention that they are fully striped, etc. -- could it be that there is a contractor in that area that does the graphics finishing? I know when the agencies out here in California (including the one I drive for) have buses come from New Flyer, they are always basic white with one other color (that's what you get for free from the bus builders, anything more costs more $$$). Our buses are finished off at Complete Coach Works in Riverside, CA. Many of the other agencies in the southwest USA also have their buses "finished" at CCW. (By finishing, they are striped with the decals, fareboxes and radios installed, and any modifications needed are done by them too.)
The NYCity Bus paint scheme is a fairly simple blue stripe on white, so I suspect the blue stripe is put on at the Flyer factory as the freebee. A number of years ago when I was in a group that visited the Orion factory in upstate NY, Orion V's headed for NYC already had the blue stripe. I've seen some new 60-foot artics arrive at Atlantic Diesel in Lodi, NJ, already sporting the blue stripe.
Probably radios. Motorola has a facility in central PA.
-Hank
I noticed that the TA put a route map on this schedule.Is this feature going to be returned to all future schedules.
I sure hope so. Deleting the route maps from the timetables was a big mistake, in my opinion. I'm glad to hear there's some hope this will be corrected.
Route maps were deleted from timetables because MTA Marketing insists on seeing/approving EVERYTHING NYCT puts out that has graphics on it (besides the MTA logo, I guess ). Rather than have the timetables sitting on someone's desk on Madison Avenue (or at 2 Broadway) while people wondered where they (and the buses) were, NYCT decided to issue the timetables without the maps. Since the M20 was a planning initiative rather than just a schedule change, apparently there was enough lead time to get MTA Marketing to approve the map that goes on the timetable.
I noticed today that the M20 does not have many runs. Yesterday around 3PM at Chambers and West, I got on run 18. I noticed on the schedule, it was the first trip.
Thanks guys for trying to answer my question. It was just curious why they were coming from State College to NYC. Heres another thought too. CATA the city bus system in state college has orion and New Flyer in there fleet. These modles are natural gas I would say they have about 50 combined Orion and New Flyer so maybe they are getting retrofitted with CNG systems down there. CATA also has fishbowls from the 70's as well if anyone is interested and they are still going strong. The reason I'm coming on now is I'm a bus Buff but, didn't know there was a message board on this site. I was trying to find Transt talk again because my hard drive failed ans natually I lost everything. I think NYC buses are cool. Get back to me if you get a chance.
Ken,
Two posts and you still havent spelled "models' correctly.
Go PSU!!!!!
:>
Hi dude.
My spelling is bad sometimes
But I know what I'm talking about when it comes to buses.
See Ya
Ken
State college is looking for CNG buses maybe they traded NYC for some in exchange for some diesels.
Nope, I think CATA wants to stick to CNG, The only diesels they have are Fishbowl GMC's from the 70's and I don't think NYC wants those things. They run fine but have seen better days. CATA has about 100 buses in its feet about 60 are Orion or New Flyer 13 fishbowls from 70's and some small buses too those 15-passenger jobs. Feel free to check out there site www.catabus.com
See Ya
Ken
The New Flyer buses seen in State College PA are from the order of 190 low-floor CNG buses headed for Jackie Gleason Depot (of which 56 are in service at this time). They were in State College to get refueled at CATA.
Thanks for answering this question I hope its correct there was a lot of speculation on it. One question how far can a bus on CNG go meaning miles traveled before refueling and why State College as a refueling point. Aren't there sites closer than that for getting CNG what about the Jackie Gleason Depot its self. Well thanks for the info. David are you a bus driver how do u know this information.
The buses are on their way to the city from New Flyer. I am sure they have to pick and choose specific points between Canada or whereever they are coming from to NYC to refuel. It is not the most readily available fuel in the world, particularly in remote areas of Pennsylavania. I would guess they had to stop another one or two times before NYC.
I heard something about they could only do about 112 miles or something on a full tank.
I'm not a bus driver, but I work for NYCT.
David
In surfing the net found pictures of above at www.gmbus.com. It the website of Dreamliner Leasing. Go to Fun Fleet section for the pictures. They also have two old NYBS fishbowls as well as NJT besides buses with other liveries. A little slow downloading.
If I've messed up the URL go to Motor Bus Society Homepage--Links section--New links. That's how I found it.
The URL you posted is correct.
The place is in Perris, California. Very difficult to find, as they do NOT list their street address for privacy reasons.
If you look at their site there is a crudely drawn map under the "About Us" section. Their yard is on a road known as Califorina State Road 74
No it is NOT on California Road 74. It's "near" it, but not on it. It's actually about two miles off of it. Been there already, and it is NOT easy to find.
Tomorrow i will be heading to Statan Island to take some pictures at Edgewater Storage Yard but i want to know if there any guards in Edgewater Storage Yard? Also i might be heading to Yukon & Castleton Depot to see if there any RTS buses stores. Any body who work at Both Depot know where is RTS buses parked? Just post it & thank you
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Edgewater was difficult spot to take pics. Trees and a fence were in the way. It's in the back of a parking lot. I believe you have to pass a booth with a guard but when I went- they never said anything.
I'm not sure about YUK OR CAS, either Trolleybus or Kevin can help you out. Sorry I wasn't much help.
MM2000
At last look, YUK has 1724 and 2685 still parked inside the depot without decals or numbers. The only RTS's left at YUK are 1990 TMC's 8293-8316, with the last bus of that series (8316) being out of service. You should also see Orion coach 125 toasted due to a fire. It is parked in the rear of the depot (main floor)
that toasted bus cannot be seen from the street. it is parked on track 19. i assume transit has a pending lawsuit regarding that bus and that is why it was not disposed of. you will see 3840 and 1724 from street. 3840 says scrap on windshield but someone has erased the s.
David- Most of the busses parked at Castleton Depot are parked in an outside lot next to the indoor depot. At Yukon, most of the busses are parked inside the depot, however many of the MCI Express busses are parked in a outside parking area across the street from the indoor depot on Forest Hill Road. Sometimes, Orion busses are parked in the street around the depot, especially when busses are being serviced and room is needed inside the depot. Remember, it's Sunday and alot of busses are not running, so you should see many busses parked at the depots.
There has been much discussion about improper posting on both boards. and our Webmaster has already flushed BusTalk's board due to out-of- control posting.
Two other message boards on other sites, one on www.trolleycars.com and one on a local Baltimore Soccer site have been shut down due to nasty, insulting and general out-of control posting having nothing to do with the general subject of the boards. The Webmasters of both boards got tired of constantly dealing with the idiots and eliminated their message boards.
DON'T LET THAT HAPPEN HERE!!!!!
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OOPS!! Hit the post button too fast.
Last line of post should have read: (This message also posted to SubTalk.
The messages were flushed because of personal attacks and insults. Not general off-topic posting.
When is the next [system] pick?
The next pick i think it March & pick are every three months.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Command Bus Co. picks today (Sunday).
Queens Division pick is effective on Feb. 13th.
Different boroughs have different pick dates?
As I understand, management wants to have the system pick effective at the same time. MABSTOA, Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island Divisions held there picks at different times.
System picks generally are held once a year where you can change depots. Once your pick into the depot you are locked in that depot for a year (OA, TA Brooklyn, Staten Island NOT Queens) but there are still three more depot picks where you can change you work assignment only in the depot.
Sometimes if depots are closed down or a massive amount of runs are being changed on a line a system pick is held, such as March of 98 when Walnut and 100 St were closed down.
Westside depot currently has a situation that may warrant a system pick concerning the 96 St crosstown. Many runs were added in expectation of work being down on the 96 St tranverse and a 110St detour and then the DOT cancelled the work. So now a special depot pick has to be held because the crosstown will be cut down to the normal amount of runs. The Union may call for a general pick because of this and the fact that DOT may want to the work in the summer and the extra runs will added back on.
Recently, I had the pleasure of riding one of the ZF transmission RTS's, 5085, on the Bx28. I loved the ride. Too bad they are only 50 of them. 5075-5124 are scheduled to go to FLA as more artics are delivered. That should be a real treat for you Brooklyn bus-fans.
I couldn't tell while I was riding them, but are those ZF buses 4 or 5-speeds?
The Transmission on those are the
ZF Ecomat HP592, 5-Speed Automatic
Trevor
What is the highest that a New York City Bus Driver can get paid in one year?
I think the average salary is 54-56 thousand dollars a year. Please don't hold me to that. That is a ball-park figure.
At NYC Transit, the most that a driver can be regularly scheduled to earn is 52 weeks of 65 hours per week at the top rate of about $21 per hour, which comes to 52 x 65 x 21 = $70,980. However, unless you have tons of seniority, don't count on making that much. It's pretty good money, given the conditions which drivers must face plus the cost of living in the NY Metro Area.
I'm not sure how additional work (e.g. extras, RDO's) would be handled. Also, headway allowance, when applicable, is paid separately from the schedule.
the answer to this question is basically as much as he /she wants. although nyct comes up with so called earning caps they drop them when conditions warrant. driver may have a 13 hour run with split work split and both days off. he/she will make plenty of money but have no life off the bus.
After three years you are at top pay as of now $20.35 per hour. Our union contract guarantees us 40 hours a week everything else is gravy.Most of the runs now pay between 8-9 hours a day plus night diff.
The Maryland MTA's winter schedule change has effectively killed off a major part of one of Baltimore's venerable bus routes.
Until the mid-Seventies, we had a massive bus route known as the #6, which served three far-flung parts of the city.
The southern branches (several of them) served the industrial and working-class areas of South Baltimore; the eastern section went past Johns Hopkins Hospital to similar east-side neighborhoods; and the northern portion covered the upscale settlements along Calvert/St Paul Sts, University Pkwy, and Roland Ave. Imagine the confusion if all the NYC 6th avenue subway routes were served only by the "B" train!!
The very complicated route was broken up, probably right after MTA took over the Balto. & Annapolis Transit Co. which served Anne Arundel County. The #6 was split into four routes as follows:
#61 - Inner Harbor to Lake Ave. (northern terminal; briefly extended to the Falls Rd. light rail station in the mid-'90s)
#62 - Inner Harbor to Armistead Gardens/Hollander Ridge
(eastern)
#63 - North Ave. to Riviera Beach (former B&A route), also serving the #6's Davison Chemical/Coast Guard
#64 - North Ave. to the many southern termini: Brooklyn Homes, Curtis Bay, Fairfield, Wagner's Point, etc.
The #6 designation was retired until the late 1990s when it was given to a short-lived route in southeastern Balto. County.
During the 1980s the MTA combined several of the #64 lines into one route that served (in order) B'klyn Homes, Curtis Bay, Fairfield, and Wagner's. It took the new route forever to cover all these areas. (There was still limited service to the original B'klyn Homes and Md. Drydock ends.) As a result, service on Patapsco Ave. between 10th St. & Pennington Ave. has been poor (the rare #22, itself a monster, or a shuttle) or non-existant.
In the mid-'90s the #63 was discontinued and selected rush-hour #64 buses went to Riviera Beach. At least the Riviera bus still has a "6" in its numeral!
Also in the 1970s, MTA acquired Dundalk Bus Lines and its east-county routes. One of these was the #35, serving Pulaski Hwy. & Phila. Rd. and running mostly parallel to the #62. The #35 was originally a two-headed beast: express buses (middays, nights and weekends too!) to Franklin Sq. Hospital via Phila. Rd; rush-hour locals to Oliver Beach. Few #35s were local in the city, so the #62 was safe. But in 1992 the MTA ended weekend service on the #35, briefly contracting Eatman Bus Co. to cover the route...poorly. (Weekday service was expanded further east on Phila. Rd., while the Oliver Beach branch was transfered to rush-hour expresses on the #23, which was more logical.)
With the new schedule change, MTA has decided to kill the #62 and transfer its routes to the #35, as a result dramatically expanding that line's service. The new #35 will have numerous local buses through the city, some operating via Armistead Gardens. (The locals thankfully will bypass the annoying Hazelwood Ave. loop.) There will still be expresses on the line, mostly weekday rush (and most via Hazelwood). The White Marsh Mall area now gets drastically increased service, especially on the locals, and weekend service has been restored.
But I wish MTA had kept the #62 designation, for the sake of tradition. There will be a LOT of confused people in East Baltimore looking for the #62!!
Can you please supply the MTA fleet and route assignments by garage?
According to an article in Sunday's Newsday LI Bus will be cutting services due to the cutback in funding from Nassau. According to the article LI Bus had asked for $26 million. The 2000 budget approved $20 million. Nassau County Executive Thomas "What me Worry" Gulotta wants to trim an addition $7 million from the $20 million approved.
He needs the money to fund all the jobs (with raises) he gave his cronies after laying them off in late Dec. This is the same economic genius who lets the jail spent $250,000 on cookies and crackers for the staff (none for the prisoners) while cutting 10,000 from a food pantry so that they almost closed up and left poor people without food. Quite shocking when some people have to decide whether to eat or heat their house due to the rapid increase in oil prices.
Somebody had shown me a proposal for bus cuts in Nassau County, which included eliminating many routes (granted, the ridership on some is not great) and reducing service on all others. Given the ridership gains of the past few years, the plan is crazy. For example, reducing service on the N6, where the buses are usually overcrowded as it is. But if no-one steps up with some more money, it is just likely to happen. The political reality is that the bus riding public in Nassau County does not make up a great percentage of total voters. And each party will try blaming the other for the harm done.
The Newsday article by Hugo Kugiya also mentions a couple of other important points:
- Cuts won't occur until "early spring", so there's hope that some or all of the money will be found.
- Cuts will effect "Able-Ride", i.e. disabled. These folks are the least able to find alternate forms of transportation.
- Ridership has been 100K per day. That's about what we do at this depot (we also have about the same fleet size), so if you subtract the Able-Ride fleet that means some of their runs are realy full, i.e. almost profitable. (some of ours are realy full too, that's why our fleet is going up again)
No matter how you look at it, this will be a big step backward if they have to cut service.
Disclaimer: I don't work for any part of the MTA or NYC-DOT. My comments are my own & don't necessarily reflect those of my employeer.
Mr t__:^)
Tell me,are there anymore RTS BUSSES running in S.I.? I've only seen ORIONS and MCI DL'S out from the depots and S.I.MALL.
Yukon Depot has 32 RTS buses still in regular service
1990 TMC RTS06's 8293-8316, and 1987 TMC RTS-06's 4892-4899.
RTS 4892-4899 are the double seats per aile, right?
Yes, 4892-4899 have 2x2 seating.
Is there any particular reason why 4892 - 4899 have 2x2 seating?
They're not prone to the crush conditions other bus routes in the city are. So they sacrifice standee space for seats. The overall capacity is less, but the extra capacity is unnecessary.
Way off. It was an experiment. It failed. The biggest complain was that there weren't enough seats, so they added 5. Except those 5 seas reduced the crush load capacity. Now, only NYCT X-bus routes have double rows.
-Hank
A few contributors have mentioned finding some sort-of-HO-scale GM fishbowl models made in China recently. Was wondering how much these cost -- as I found a LOAD of them in a toy disposal outlet out here in Southern California for $1.99 each today. Of course, I bought 'em all up, gonna strip them and repaint them to look better. (They weren't even in boxes or packaging.....)
are these the one that say new york bus on them? becasue if they are, i got 15 of them, and have attempted to put METROPOLITAN SUBURBAN bus AUTHORITY on them. let me know if these are it. and if not, send a pic
I'll take a pic too.
CAT system in Vegas is selling Die Cast Models of their New Flyer Busses at their downtown Transit System for $10.00 each. By the looks also they seem to be the low floor model. I was also in San Francisco yesterday. United Airlines is using 3 AM General Busses at the Airport to ferry employees between the airport, parking lot and the maintance center.
how do you buy the flyers from las vegas?
are you sure these are not grumman flexible like the ones they made from road champs, but new flyer low floor buses?
They are Road Champs Flxible Metro's, not NFI low-floors. Just saw them this weekend when up in Las Vegas.
SEPTA (Philadelphia) also has som Road Champs Metro's done up, they sell them for eight bucks apiece through their Transit Museum.
United Airlines has had those three AM Generals for about ten years now, believe it or not. They also have four Neoplan low floor transit out on the field, used to shuttle passengers between the main terminal and the United Express commuter terminal.
The Neoplans were brand new in 1996. The AMG's are ex-Samtrans.
Down here in LA they have school buses for crews.
They are the same scale model buses, they come in a blue strip, white body or blue body, all with NEW YORK BUS on the side. Canal Street was selling them for two to four dollars. My friend purchased a whole box of twenty four for $24. They all have a spring back motor.
You can easily remove the colors with nail polish, the paint on the sides of the bus comes right off. I currently have about 6 buses that I painted into the real NYCTA colors and various NYC private paint schemes.
There are two other versions: all silver with greyhound type dog on side; light blue with same dog. Both have destination signs, although I forget what they say.
they both say Central station, except the grey one says downtown on it. I like the RTS one better, i have 14 of those. Im going to try to order the flyer's that Las Vegas has. But im want to know, do the flyers they are selling really flyers, or are they like the flexiblie metro that has ny, NJ, CTA,Minneapolis and Miami?
Did you know there are TWO RTS versions?
Joe C
there is one that says nyc bus and the other is a orange color that has a m on it and says downtown, right?
i own the nyc version(14)
The orange one is Los Angeles. Both were sold here. Additionally, there are six old look GM's, like Corgis in scale,but different in many ways. They are Chinese diecast with roll-back (spring) motors. They have unusual European markings and are quite colorful.
Joe c
the corgi buses i like, but i like the 1:87 scale than the 1:50 scale. Any word on the flyers that they are supposedly selling in diecast form in las vegas is a flyer, or is a flexible?
Can't find an e-mail or website for them. May have to call for details. This is news to me.
i will try to call DTC in las vegas to see about ordering 3 of them. if they are new flyer low floor, and not flexible, i will get more.
Are the RTS model buses still available? I haven't seen those before.
- Jim (RailBus)
no :-(. I stopped seeing them around a few months ago when the GMC classic city buses came out. So if you have them now, you got them. if you want to buy them, go to www.collectorscorner.com
Are you sure about that Internet address???
best thing to do..go to the bus pages, click on transittalk,then go to shopping mall. there you will find the store collectors corner. it will lead you to the bus
am expecting to get the flyers(i hope) from las vegas with 2 weeks(i hope). According to what CAT in vegas told me, the buses have the same color as theirs do, and says #301-Strip on the sign. Normally they are around for prompotional. if anyone can get me one of these buses before they are removed, i would be greatly appreciated.
They are Flxible Metro's. At least they were over the weekend when i was in Las Vegas.
Hey Steve, what kind of model is Vegas selling?
Joe
supposedly, steve replied and sid it was a road champs bus witht eh design fo a las vegas bus. i have a friend in vegas who s buying me 4 of them. when i have them, i will descrbe them on bustalk.
I called them last evening. The cost is $10.00, plus shipping. They could not determine what type of bus it is.
Joe C
i got a friend in vegas getting them for me. can't wait to have them. when i do, i will know what they are.
From reading Steve's posts, he said they were Flxible Metros.
RDChilds
flexi metros with the ac on the roof. I have one, I thought at first it looked like the new Neoplans/or New Flyers, but looking at the windows it is a Metro.
They had Flxible Metro's, Road Champs. They also had some of the GM fishbowls that I bought for $1.99 in a chain drug store, but they were selling them for six bucks, and they were just the generic dog-buses (the dog looks more like a pregnant doberman than a greyhound).
Joe -- you mentioned that there are SIX versions of the Corgi-size old looks. Out here, we're only seeing four. A blue one, a red/white one, a green one, and a tan/brown one. Could you elaborate on the other two versions?
I've seen boxed sets of six, but they duplicate two of the buses in the sets.
Thanks!
Steve, there are orange ones and yellow too. I was lucky to get the box of six different colors. Same with the fishbowls, they were boxed. Searching through boxes produced 3 mixed versions, mostly with/blue NYC buses, and the two dog versions.
there is a plan white fishbowl, with a blue streak with the dog on it. i have seen it on the box of the buses, yet haven't seen it. these are the only ones tht i have seen:
White and blue-saying new york bus
grey
silver
Thanks for elaborating on those "other" GM old looks. I've never seen the two you mention.
As for the sort-of-HO scale GM T8H5305's, the ones we're seeing out here are loose. No box, no packaging, no manufacturer labeling, no nothing. They are usually being sold in chain drug stores in a big "Clearance Bin" with all sorts of other toy vehicles for $1.98 each.
I got a dozen of them in two different Dogbus schemes and "New York Bus". I'll probably keep one of each original and paint the rest to look more prototypical. Already did one for San Francisco Muni and it sure improves the looks of the things. Only problem is, when you strip the paint from the metal body, there are some hellacious molding seams; five minutes' work with the Dremel Moto-Tool smoothed out most of them.
Steve did you do any in OCTA colors?
Nope, we never had any and I am NOT going to do any in OCTA colors.
I actually did some Rod Champs Flxible Metros in old OCTD solid orange stripe scheme, and some of the large RTS bus banks in OCTA colors.
How come you won t do a OCTA, that is who you work for isn t it. Next time in Vegas, go to Beltz Mall, just So of the Airport on L>V> Blvd. I picked up a Santa Monica TDH5301 and a SF Muni TD4506 at less then 20 bucks each(Corgi)
I won't do one because we never had 'em. That's why. I don't paint buses up in OCTA colors just because I work there. I prefer to keep things "somewhat" prototypical. Really, the ONLY non-prototypical one in my collection is the San Francisco Muni Flxible Metro -- but they did have Grumman 870's.
And I have had those two Corgi's for over a year now, at the same price. Believe me, the moment I hear some place has Corgi's at those low prices, I check the place out. I have 32 Corgi fishbowls and 18 old looks, and I paid full price for only ONE. The rest were at $19.95 or less.
For those looking for them at reduced prices, a couple of the nationwide chains that have them at low prices are KB Toy Loiquidators, and Tuesday Morning stores.
Just got me Corgi Santa Monica New Look 7 Pico and a old Look SF bus at the Beltz Mall just south of the Strip in Vegas for $15.98 each.
You must have gone to KB Toy Liquidators. They have the same at the one by the Tijuana/San Ysidro border and also at the "Citadel" outlets in the City of Commerce near LA. (They also had St. Louis PCC's at $19.98 in Commerce....)
I went to a K&B Liqudators in Woodbury Commons, upstate NY, and I got myself a Corgi Yellowcoach 743 painted in the Lionel City Transit colors for 30 bucks. Although one rear tailight was not there.
Thirty bucks? Geez, they're going for HALF that ($14.95) out here in California.
And they even let us look at the models before we buy them so we can determine if they are broken or missing parts.
Mine were in Perfect Condition. In Oct I picked up a St Louis and SF Muni PCC. and K B Liq near Flint Mich for about $20.00 each. Woodbury is ripping you off.
I wouldn't go so far as to say a place is "ripping you off". They are charging less that LIST price, and list price is what we saw for many months on the Corgi stuff.
The reason we have found it a lot cheaper elsewhere is that Corgi made HUGE runs of each item, and found they weren't selling (through retailers) at their list prices. Retailers sold their non-moving stock off to liquidators for their cost or less, so basically we got lucky.
As the old saying goes....it pays to shop around.
For the umpteenth time, they are Road Champs Metro's, NOT NFI low-floors.
The CAT (Las vegas) buses are actually Flxible Metro, from Road Champs. SEPTA Transit Museum sells SEPTA versions at eight bucks. Apparently Raod Champs is doing special runs for transit agencies nowadays.
Are the Depot Decals available to bus buffs or any other stuff like hats and shirts. I like the Jackie Gleason Decal a lot but can't get one leagly. I was also wonder if tours of the depots are available.
I've purchased depot and "Quality Control Bus" decals at the Transit Museum a few years back.
Wayne
i got a few stickers from a few depots.t hese are what i have:
Ulmer Park
54th Street(Transit Museum)
Flatbush
146th Street(Transit Museum-now called Mother Clara Hale)
Yukon-had it,lost it
Walnut-Transit Museum.
I guess if you go tot the depots and ask someone, i suppose you can get the stickers.
The New York Transit Museum regularly sells decals at their stores,
however, they do not have a regular supply and if you are looking for a particular one I would call first..
Peace,
Andee
The TA mususem sells some old ones that nobody wants anymore I got a few there myself but are looking for specfic ones. At the depot that is questionalbe I guess if you talk to the right person they are not hard to come by.
Well if you know people you can get them. I got one from my classmate who's mother works at FP.
Yea I know about that thanks for the info
No problemo.