why would a good morning sign
appear on a los angeles mta #435
but it is 9 nine P.M.??
ever see this in other states ??
Which Bus is the 435, Is it the Ventura Blvd Bus?
The same reason that in the middle of July you see buses running around with "Seasons Greetings" on the destination sign or a "Sorry Bus Full" reading at 1 in the morning when 3 people are on the bus...
The operator punched the code in wrong, the sign is acting up or the operator just wants to be different.
RDChilds
...or it could have been the morning operator put it up there, and the relief driver in the afternoon never even noticed it there and didn't clear it.
The "Good Morning" message as well as other similar ones, are controlled by using the "PR" button (Public Relations). The routes are controlled by "DEST A" or "DEST B".
I once boarded the Bx15 to Fordham Plaza at Kings Highway and West 8 Street in Brooklyn.
How long was the ride, and which Bridge took you to the Bx, seriously did you tell the driver?
I do not if it is still going on, but is there a B40 that goes northbound on Flatbush to Downtown Bklyn??????
B46M Limited
Isn't that the B41?
I know but some of the buses would say B40: Downtown Bklyn-Cadman Plz.
I know it is the B41 run on Flatbush..... :):)
B46M Limited
Plenty of times. What makes the sign do this? Is it automatic, or is there operator input?
The driver inputs a code into the sign for each end of the route. The sequence would be to press "DEST A", then dial the four-digit number for the desired destination, then press "ENTER". Same for the other end of the route except one would normally use the "DEST B" button.
For the add-on messages, the driver would press "PR", dial in the appropriate code, then press "ENTER". The "Public Relations" message will display in addition to Destination A or Destination B.
To clear the Public Relations message, the driver needs to press "PR", dial "0000" and then press "ENTER".
On some newer models of signs, instead of dialing in the four-digit code, the driver just has to press the numbers in on a keypad, and on such models, the leading zeroes do not need to be put in.
I have 3 questions to ask, going back some years for the old timers 1-What year did MTA switch from Green to Blue? 2-What year did the last Fishbowls and Flexibles Run, what lines and the year the ywere mfg. 3-Wher did the last Old Look Busses Run, what year and the numbers (I am assuming they were in the 9000s from 1959.) Any help will be appreciated
From what I can remember the TA switched from Green to Blue in the early 70's( the 6000's fishbowls came already painted in the new scheme)The last fishbowl ran in 92/93 (when the city statred getting the Orions)The last flexibles ran in 90/91(I remember getting 7084 on the Q56 with my girlfriend in May 1990)
Actually, I distinctly remember the blue color scheme first kicking in around 1971-72. Not all buses were repainted immediately, however, I still saw some green-colored buses moving around as late as 1978.
Insofar as the back of both GM and Flxible “New Look” buses are concerned, I always preferred the ones with four windowpanes on them as opposed to the ones with only three windowpanes. I guess the ones with four windowpanes had more of a “centered” look to them. (Don’t ask about those 1974-77 make Flxible buses with a very small window in the back, I have no opinion thereof.)
Also, I seemed to notice that the ’60’s Flxible “New Looks” were more prevalent in all other boroughs except Manhattan, where GM “New Looks” reigned. I wonder why that was?
blue buses were ordered in 1972. they were the 6000 series 6000-6199 and the last 35-40 were coaches in ulmer park and possibly edgewater.staten island again had the dubious distinction of retiring the last flxibles series 9000-9309. they were retired about 1991and were the first buses not to even complete 15 years of service.
Besides scrapping, what did the city do with the buses they retired?
Are any still around?
I don't mean like the Museum fleet samples
Not sure of the bus numbers, but there is a bus fan in Perris, California (about 70 miles east of Los Angeles) who somehow got a T6H5309A and a T6H5310A. He has at least one of every model fishbowl that GM ever made.
The old RTD in LA used to sell their busses to the public. I have a friend who bought a 1960 TDH5301 for $5000.00 and spent 4 years fixing it up as a motor home.
I remember a old Flexy operating out of KB in the early 1990's on the M100 and BX1. It was in pretty bad shape with no destination sign and looking rather sad.
Didn't Red Apple express purchase several of these buses?
Red Apple did have a few of the GM Blitz rebuilds (T6H-5309/10A) at red Apple Express. The Flxibles were 53102-8-1 and 530096-8-1 from Transport of New Jersey (Today's New Jersey Transit)
Wayne
I believe that most of Red Apple Express's buses came from Red and Tan Lines in New Jersey. Red Apple Express was somehow affiliated with Red and Tan.
Ignore my previous post. I think I got Red Apple Express and Metro Apple Express mixed up!
Some of the coaches in the high 6100's ran on the Queens express routes. I don't believe Queens Village was open then, so they ran out of Jamaica depot.
Before QV opened in 1974 Jamaica had #'s 6165-6180 for servic on the 18X, 20X, and 24X routes. When QV opened, I believe 6172-6180 went over there for 18X service. Please double check my numbers guys.
Peace
Most of you will not remember the old Twin Coaches that the Board of Transportation bought in 1948, they ran mostly out of Ulmer Park and a dozen out of W 5th St Coney Island. The only made it to 1958, before they were scrapped. The RTD in LA they made it until 1960, and only CTA in Chicago knows how long they lasted
i remember one that sat stationary at cadman plaza and was used by the starter as an office and bo swing room. also i remember them in atlantic city buses301-340 ran for the ac tran co till the mid 60s. rear door was released by driver and passengers foot on treadle opened it. who remembers what was next to the coney island depot?
Nothing, Coney Island was built in the mid 60s as Apt Houses I have family living there(Brightwater Towers) and I found out numerous people on Sub Talk have family there too
actually something you dont see in ny anymore. a pay toilet concession existed right next to the old trolley terminus and later bus depot. when you got off you could pay 5 cents to relieve yourself.
Green TA buses were still around up until 1982. Queens Division had a ton of them. Most of them were 1965 Flxibles and 1961-1963 GMC's.
126th Street also had #8144. I wonder if this bus was ever painted anything other than green.
Wayne
Can anyone tell me what color the busses in Brooklyn were before Green? I have a picture of a pre war Yellow on the B 2 Route Somewhere in the house
In 1984 I caught 8098 on the Q(thenB)58 and it was still in its original Green color
In 1984 8750 was running on the B53(Q54) out of Fresh Pond in all white. This was one of a few MaBSTOA fishbowls to run in FP. This bus was running without the ad wings at this time.Too Bad. Also spotted one morning around 1980 MaBSTOA fishbowl 5270(1964 GMC no AC-not to be confused with Blitz). 8005 was also running around without the ad wings from Ulmer Park.
i remember driving 8000's out of flatbush in 1984-85.when the
grummans were taken out of srevice for the last time in feb.1984,depots that had rts buses had to share them with the depots
that had lost their grummans.i remember flatbush sending rts buses
to ulmer park (1390-1414).to replace them,we got retired 8000's
from castleton.i can still tell you the #s(i even have a picture
of myself driving 8138 on the B7)! (with wings);8016,8131,8195
(without wings);8015,8024,8026,8075,8075,8126,8137,8138,8170,8179,
8195,& 8762.i got a kick out of driving them because i knew they
were supposed to already be retired,(they were 17 years old) and
the passengers hated them!!!!they were for the most part reliable
and fast,even in their old age.i don't remember one ever breaking
down on me.they were retired in 1986 when we begann getting the
blitz buses.(some 8000's were remanned into blitzs themselves)!!!
ANDY/ULMER PR
Up in MaBSTOA territory - I rememeber many Kingsbridge (8301-8372, 8374) being the backbone and pulling late night runs too.
Wayne
The Old Looks from the 1950's series 7000/7100's and the 9000/9100's were retired in 1973 with the arrival of the 6200/6300 Fishbowls. The very last Old Look I saw was 7030 and was running on the B53 out of Fresh Pond. The next day 6336 made it's debut. Also 126 St. was another of the last depots to run the Old Looks.
Was in our 701 yesterday. She has a front and side sign (both were working and looked in good shape), but none on the rear.
Mr t__:^)
The Green WMATA Orions don't have rear signs either. How are the front and side signs holding up? Are any of them scrambled like the Green Orions?
Those 700 Orions are a stand out in the QSC fleet. They are also sort of a rare bird, I never really see them and I think it's been over a year since I rode one on an express route.
Rode 5531 this morning on Q60- broken signs- nothing new.
About the QS 700 Orions: 700 was on the Q104 on Sunday and her sign was not working. 702 and 704 I believe are not working either. The odd 700s are working well. 703 I saw yesterday on Q65A. 705 was on Q66 last week. 701 I also saw last week on Q25-34. I rode all of these Orions and the best one out of this bunch has to be 703. Good pickup, and looks like she's brand new despite a few scratches on the windows here and there. The reason you rarely see them is because they only have 6 of these buses (700-705). Keep your eye out for 700 it's different than all the others.
Q66#703Gary
I've been inside 700 & 701. I was happy to see no one sliced the seats yet (knock, knock on wood). The signs on 701 looked fine. They were intact, physically & display was readable. Outside the body seems to be holding togather too.
Mr t__:^)
I rode GBL's 5506 and after being spoilt by those that WMATA kept I was somewhat grossed out. I haven't noticed any malfunctioning signs on WMATA Orions. WMATA is in the process of rehabing their 1992 Orion V's and they're looking good.
Wayne
While riding the Q60 to my school last week, I saw 487 parked on 108 St Continental Ave in what looked like to be a new paintjob. 553 has a partial strip on the back right stop lights. Is this gonna happen to all of the CNG Orions?
Q65A#487Gary
Could be 487 has only been in service a couple of weeks. If I hear anything I'll pass it on.
P.S. It was never going to be a Triboro, so that's not the reason.
Mr t__:^)
Haven't seen 487 but have seen a 500 with orange stripe on front & back ... is that what you're talking about ?
P.S. Saw a couple of brand new Orions, e.g. 470, on my way out the door yesterday ... couldn't see anything different in the paint.
Mr t__:^)
I saw and took a front pic of 487 today on the Q65A at Queens Blvd.
She has only a front and side paint on her. The rear is naked (all white). The pic will be up on TransiTalk before Christmas. Also spotted 470 and she looks like the other 400s. It's unfortunate to see all of the GMC RTS Buses leaving cause I used to get on 1 of these everyday on the Q66 to and from school. But it's time to letr out the old and let in the new.
MM2000
Today was 470s first day making money for us, yesterday was 247s last.
Mr t__:^)
I saw and took a front pic of 487 today on the Q65A at Queens Blvd.
She has only a front and side paint on her. The rear is naked (all white). The pic will be up on TransiTalk before Christmas. Also spotted 470 and she looks like the other 400s. It's unfortunate to see all of the GMC RTS Buses leaving cause I used to get on 1 of these everyday on the Q66 to and from school. But it's time to let out the old and let in the new.
MM2000
Yesterday, while waiting for my Q60 to go to school, I saw on the QM15 Buses 229 and 289. Q60 ran 5531 and 5540. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around? I also saw 280 on the QM15 last week. GO FIGURE! Last night along Queens Blvd on the QM1 and QM4 routes, I see local buses doing Express Runs (284, 291, 300, 315, 321, 334, 452, 476, 492, 497 and what was a shock to me: 258). 2 months ago, I did see 216 and 232 on the QM4. Long Live the GMC RTS!!!
MM2000
5503 is back in service but not on her usual run. She was on the Q60 I believe run 6001. She was shining as bright as The Rockefeller Christas Tree will be tonight at Queens Center Mall around 810 this morning.
Q60#5503Gary
While going through my collection I came upon three interesting photos...
one is of a Neoplan double decker in SCRTD colors that operated in Manhattan for a short period. The two tone "M" logo was placed on the bus while in N.Y.This was sponsored by UMTA the year before the Leylands arrived.
the second is of a MAN articulated, beige in color with a red stripe and bumper. It is parked outside a city garage.
the third photo is of Grumman 870 #199. Nothing unusual except it has two fare boxes side by side. Why??
Re: Grumman 870 - i have no idea why it would have two farboxes. 199 was originally 100 and it was renumbered (to 199) when the NYCTA bought the bus. It then operated as an express bus out of Queens Village depot.
Wayne
Two fare boxes can collect and hold more money than one . . .
$1.50 for one farebox and another $1.50 for the other.
Did 100/199 have blue hard seats or soft express high back seats?? where they 2 by 2 or 2 by 1??
Thanks.
It had blue soft seats that were not highbacked and in 2 X 2 configuration. It also had an 8-cylinder (8V-71N) engine.
Wayne
As a big Transit Bus Enthuisiast I hope that when New York City Transit plans for their 2000 Bus Roadeo late next Spring, I hope that the agency decides to hold the Annual Bus gathering at either the
Casey Stangel Bus Depot in Flushing Queens, or at Steeple Chase Park in Coney Island. I was not too thrilled with the recent Bus Roadeo from this past June which was held at Randels Island near Manhatan.
First of all, the property was much smaller compared to the parking lot on the grounds of the Casey Stangel Depot. In addition, I noticed that there were fewer Vintage New York City Transit Authority Buses.
For example, I noticed that there were only the 1956 GMC Old Look Bus (3100) and the green body 1969 Flxible New Look Transit Bus #4727 that were present at the 1999 Bus Roadeo. I hope that next year N.Y.C. Transit brings out a bigger variety of their Museum Bus Fleet including the 1963 General Motors TDH-5303 model New Look green body bus (fleet #3758) with the famous script New York City Transit Authority logo on top. When growing up as a young child during the early and mid 1970's, I could remember riding with my Mom on these 1963 GMC Fisbowl Transit Buses on Staten Island. I think that the early GMC New Look TDH-5303 buses without the airconditioning were the most reknown bus fleet in the New York Transit system. That is why I would like NYC Transit to include their early GM Fish Bowl buses (ranging from the 1959 TDH-5301 bus #100 to the 1963 TDH-5303 bus #3758) at the future 2000 Transit Bus Roadeo.
I'm posting this message to both SubTalk and BusTalk because the Newark subway is somewhat a cross between a bus and subway.
I rode the Subway today for the first time since pantographs came into use. I have a few questions about Fares, Branch Brook Park Station and the new LRVs.
1. What's the difference between a ticket with transfer and ticket with continuing trip? The NJT site says the machine was supposed to say something about that, but I didn't read the machine.
2. How are transfers administered now with the POP system?
3. Are the monthly passes rolling date (like Metrocard) or calendar month (like the railroads)?
4. How do you stamp a 10 trip ticket? Or is it just 10 different tickets?
Will Branch Brook Park station be used by the PCCs? Will the LRVs ever use Heller Parkway or Franklin Avenue station? Basically, in what order will the station be opened, the other stations closed, the extension opened, and the cars replaced? Will the PCC ever coöperate with the LRVs?
Will the subway go to CBTC?
And finally, will the new LRVs floor be exactly at platform level obviating the need for ramps, or will ramps be installed like on LF busses?
P.S. I'll be changing my name on BusTalk back to B100
check out the nj transit webiste to keep up to date on newark city subway.
Everything that I asked in my post is not available there. Would I otherwise ask?
"Would I otherwise ask?"
Eugenius--- You'll find the answer to your last question also on that website.
Sorry, I couldn't resist that joke. It was sort of a Lily Tomlin playing a phone company operator joke.
One ringy-dingy.....
-Hank :)
But nobody's answered any of my original questions!
There's a reason. Nobody knows. I checked the New Jersey Transit website, and from what I looked at, I didn't get any answers to what you asked.
Look--- what I am going to suggest goes against my basic nature. I don't know if there were any supervisory people around when you rode the subway, but the last time I was there there were. It was a week before the ticket thing started. I don't generally ask questions to live humans. But my advice to you is to ask any of the supervisory people there if you go again. Or call up Jersey Transit, and ask for someone who knows about the city subway.
I'm sure that there are a couple of people here or maybe on the SubTalk side who are very knowledgable about the Bergen Light Rail and the Newark Subway.
Look I just realized that I have a whole bunch of ERA monthly bulletins, and I just found one from April 1999 with a couple of pages on the Hudson Bergen Line. In it, they mentioned that the for a few months the PCC's might run over the extension.
For everyone's benefit, I thought I'd post a list of the builder serial numbers for the entire fleet of RTS's. These come from official factory printouts that I have obtained through "sources" which I will NOT name.
Please note: I did NOT note which ones had the "PA" prefix on the fleet number, nor did I note which ones were delivered as MABSTOA buses. I'm sure everyone knows that trivia.
If anyone has any additonal fleet numbers that I may have missed, let me know so I can post the builder serials.
These are the BUILDER serial numbers matched to NYCTA FLEET numbers.
All buses actually have a 17-digit VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) which contains the following as the last eight digits. I do NOT have the ocmplete VIN's.
1201-1240 GMC 1981 BV811843-BV811882
1241-1287 GMC 1981 BV811923-BV811969
1288-1317 GMC 1981 BV812250-BV812279
1318-1357 GMC 1981 BV812010-BV812049
1358-1397 GMC 1981 BV812090-BV812129
1397-1460 GMC 1981 BV812167-BV812229
1461-1500 GMC 1981 BV812548-BV812587
1501-1540 GMC 1981 BV812628-BV812667
1541-1580 GMC 1981 BV812708-BV812747
1541-1658 GMC 1981 BV812790-BV812867
2201-2240 GMC 1981 BV811803-BV811842
2241-2280 GMC 1981 BV811183-BV811922
2281-2300 GMC 1981 BV812230-BV812249
2301-2340 GMC 1981 BV811970-BV812009
2341-2380 GMC 1981 BV812050-BV812089
2381-2417 GMC 1981 BV812130-BV812166
2418-2457 GMC 1981 BV812508-BV812547
2458-2497 GMC 1981 BV812588-BV812627
2498-2537 GMC 1981 BV812668-BV812707
2538-2579 GMC 1981 BV812748-BV812789
3001-3325 GMC 1983 DV821944-DV822268
3400-3799 GMC 1984 EV822555-EV822956
3800-4218 GMC 1985 FV823267-FV823685
4300-4599 GMC 1986 GV824122-GV824421
4600-4899 TMC 1988 HR825003-HR825302
4902-4950 NOVA 1998 WR833327-WR833375
4951-5037 NOVA 1998 WR833377-WR833464
5038-5074 NOVA 1998 WR833466-WR833502
5075-5080 NOVA 1998 WR833643-WR833648
5081-5104 NOVA 1998 WR833651-WR833674
5105-5124 NOVA 1999 XR833675-XR833694
5125-5161 NOVA 1999 XR833697-XR833733
5162-5249 NOVA 1999 XR833376-XR833823
(Note: Nova shows XR833734 and XR833734 to NYCTA but no
numbers assigned. Could these have been 4900-4901? Those
are notlisted anywhere.)
8000 TMC 1991 LR828176
8001 TMC 1991 LR827678
8002-8252 TMC 1991 LR827776-LR828026
8253-8330 TMC 1991 LR828028-LR828105
8331-8348 TMC 1991 LR828107-LR828124
8349-8398 TMC 1991 LR828126-LR828175
93502 TMC 1993 PR829309 (were these renumbered to 8400's????)
93503 TMC 1993 PR829394
8405-8407 TMC 1993 PR829395-PR829397
8408-8421 TMC 1993 PR829399-PR829412
8422-8478 TMC 1993 PR829414-PR829470
8479-8501 TMC 1993 PR829503-PR829524
8502-8521 TMC 1994 PR829526-PR829545
8522-8564 TMC 1994 PR829547-PR829589
8565-8566 TMC 1994 PR829735-PR829736
8567 TMC 1994 PR829953
8600-8601 TMC 1994 PR829951-PR829952
8603-8632 TMC 1994 RR830098-RR820127
8633-8682 TMC 1994 RR830154-RR830203
8683-8703 TMC 1994 RR830219-RR830239
8750 NOVA 1995 SR830582
8751 NOVA 1995 SR830519
8752 NOVA 1995 SR830783
8753-8976 NOVA 1996 TR831131-TR831354
8977-8979 NOVA 1996 TR831356-TR831358
8980-8983 NOVA 1996 TR831360-TR831363
8984-9090 NOVA 1996 TR831365-TR831471
9091-9149 NOVA 1996 TR831473-TR831531
9150-9199 NOVA 1996 TR831591-TR831640
9200-9249 NOVA 1996 TR831642-TR831691
9250-9294 NOVA 1996 TR831903-TR831946
9295-9349 NOVA 1996 TR831948-TR832002
9350-9351 NOVA 1997 VR832243-VR832244
9352 NOVA 1997 VR822559
9353-9369 NOVA 1997 VR832636-VR832652
9370-9501 NOVA 1997 VR832654-VR832785
9502-9524 NOVA 1997 VR832787-VR832809
9525-9558 NOVA 1998 WR832845-WR832879
9559-9593 NOVA 1998 WR832845-WR832879
9594-9602 NOVA 1998 WR832881-WR832889
9603-9689 NOVA 1998 WR832891-WR832977
9690-9699 NOVA 1998 WR832979-WR832988
Steve, thanks for the info. I think you may be missing the 1982 RTS's, which are numbered: 1659-1858 (TA) and 2580-2704 (Mabstoa)
Thanks for pointint out the omission, Sid! Pages must have clung together in the binder, I'm out here in southern California and we've bee having very high wind which causes a LOT of static electricity!
Here they are:
1659-1733 1982 GMC CV820458-CV820532
1734-1858 1982 GMC CV820658-CV820782
2580-2704 1982 GMC CV820533-CV820657
If my memory serves me correctly, in 1980, GMC TDH5301 2173 was not only one of the few of this model to be painted white, it also tested the 2x1 seating arrangement that would become standard for the TA. This bus ran out of Jamaica Depot, which had another white 1962 GMC, #2117. Both of these buses sported rear tail lights similar to the 1963 TDH5303's (3601-3950).
My next topic of curiosity deals with 4300/6350?? Was this bus a prototype for the vertical exhaust system that was used on the 1971 T6H5309A's. I know for sure that this bus had the same operator's window (which opened only halfway) as the rest of the 1970 T6H5305A's, but were the seats blue or gray? I am sorry that this bus did not go to Blitz (would they have renumbered it in the 5200 or the 53-5400 series?) or was saved for the musuem.
I believe all of the (local) T6H-5305A's had grey seats. Had 4300 gone to Blitz I think it would've been one of the 5200's.
Wayne
Bus 4300 with the vertical tailpipe had the gray seats when operated at ENY in 80-81 and it was 5200 when it was remamnufactured by Blitz
4300 was NOT sent to Blitz. It was renumbered 6350 during the fall of 1985.
No one knows anything about 2173, huh?
I do remember seeing 4300 a few times. The first time I saw it I thought to myself; Something is not right about this picture. Then I realized I was seeing what appeared to be a T6H-5309A, but sounded like a T6H-5305A.
Wayne
Actually, as I recall, 4300 sounded like the 6000's.
Well, I'll admit that QV has the coolest website. I don't know the MDBF stats for the depots but they probably reflect the depot roster more than maintenance (no offense, maintainers!). Apart from QV getting most of the accolades, I'm still in the dark as to what makes a depot "the best."
Fernando likes 146 St for sentimental reasons (as I'm sure do many Amsterdam ops). The BusTalkers seem to favor newer buildings. I've always picked depots for their equipment (i.e., 54 St, for the Grummans, Hudson, for the latest model RTSs and, as of the 1/00, Westside, for the DF60s).
TA drivers seem to favor Yukon and Castlton. MaBSTOA drivers tend to pick a route they like (like me with the Q32) and stay with it.
I don't want to beat this subject to death but could I have a few more replies with reasons?
Okay, 995 is a definite lady but the DF60 doesn't have that much charm.
It rides quite nicely, thank you and I have no problems with turns. The view from the inside mirror is really something- I feel like it must be a long distance call to talk to or even see someone in the rear of the bus.
As for reversing, yes, it is a chore and I can understand now why shifters (or drillers) aren't big fans.
The instrument panel looks and feels like a pinball game, what with all the buzzing and pinging and flashing lights.
On the whole, I'm pretty psyched about the bus and look forward to my run on the 79. But I'm gonna miss Miss 995.
Welcome to my going home from school route Alan!!I take this bus everyday to go home! I look forward to riding your bus!
Peace Out
-Clayton
You RTS fans will probally enjoy this short story.
Over the past couple of days we had been trying to catch RTS -06 #247 to remove it's farebox & re-install in a new Orion. Yesterday about noon I had the radio desk contact the drive & ask him to drop it off at Farebox Repair when he came in. He complained, but acknowledged the request. About 2:30 he arrived and questioned the farebox mechanics as to why the company should want to take HIS bus out of service. It starts right up every morning, motor purrs like a kitten, the driver's seat is comfortable, heat and A/C work, farebox works ... what else could they ask of a bus ?
BTW, typically the same driver will be on the same run every day and frequently gets the same bus. Some insist on it, well they ask the Dispatcher nicely.
I asked the machanics if the driver offered them any green stuff to keep HIS bus. We probally could have let him keep it until the end of the year :-) I wonder if he'll come by this afternoon and complain about his new Orion CNG ... then maybe he called in sick ?
Mr t__:^)
He probably won't complain when he hits the brakes! Word of mouth is that the Orions brake better and are a little smoother than their RTS bretheren.
Come next June of 2000, I would like to see MTA New York City Transit bring out more of their Museum Buses to the next Bus Roadeo. For example, at this past years event held in Randals Island, I only noticed that there were the Yellow 1956 GMC Old Look Bus (#3100), and the 1969 Flxible New Look Transit bus (#4727) painted in green on hand at the bus competion. As for the future 2000 Bus Roadeo, I would like to see more Vintage Transit Authority Buses like the green body 1963 General Motors TDH-5303 model New Look Bus (#3758) with the original script New York City Transit Authority logo on top. I think that the early GMC New Look Fishbowl Buses were the most reknown fleet of the New York Transit System.
Send this letter to NYCTA at Jay Street and cross your fingers.
The current M10 operates between W. 159th St and Battery Park City or Abingdon Square.
The new M-10 will operate between W. 159th St and Penn Station
The new M-20 will operate between W. 66th St and Battery Park City
What will replace M-10 service to Abingdon Square?
The MTA Cuts Srevice Again
No, if needed the 20 will terminate at the Square. The only reason why the is currently service is because the level of riding north of the Square is much heavier than south.
Abingdon Sq. is North of Battery Park City, isn't it?
Right now it's essentially a turnback to provide shortline service North of 14th St., which is assumedly the heavier portion of the route.
Unless the M20 service North of 14th st. is less compared to what it is presently on the M10, how is it a service cut?
Abington Sq is just South of W 14th St, it is the Southern Term of the M11
Since there is no scheduled service to Abingdon Sq., riders will have to switch to the M14 to get there. (There is also the "secret switch" to the M11 at 63 St.)
"(There is also the "secret switch" to the M11 at 63 St.)"
What secret switch? Where the M10 goes over to colombus for half a millisecond?
Yes, the M10 goes to Broadway.
When does this all start?
M10 and M20 starting in 2000
I posted the signs on Sunday
Steve
As I promised, here's the GM New Look bus serial numbers taken from GM production lists. I'll get to the GM Old Looks before long.
I have NOT differentiated between NYCTA and MABSTOA.
I HAVE separated buses by GM model, so the fleet number series are
NOT in order.
COMING SOON: Flxibles and GM Old Looks.
If I have omitted any series, please advise (I am aware thee were GM New Looks in te 5000 series, but these were rebuilds of others that ARE listed below.)
1-190 TDH5301 -187 to -376 (11/59)
501-805 TDH5301 -942 to -1246 (8/60)
1001-1030 TDH5301 -2502 to -2631 (7/61)
2001-2175 TDH5301 -3199 to -3373 (8/62)
3101-3110 TDH5301 -714 to -723 (01/60) [Fifth Avenue Coach Lines]
3111-3160 TDH5301 -1294 to -1343 (10/60) [Fifth Avenue Coach Lines]
3161-3210 TDH5301 -1344 to -1393 (10/60) [Surface Transit Inc.]
3211-3220 TDH5301 -724 to -733 (01/60) [Fifth Avenue Coach Lines 1-10]
(These last ten were the ONLY air conditioned TDH5301's.)
3301-3555 TDH5303 -480 to -734 (6/63)
3601-3661 TDH5303 -818 to -878 (6/63)
3662-3744 TDH5303 -958 to -1040 (7/63)
3745-3823 TDH5303 -879 to -957 (6/63)
3824-3906 TDH5303 -735 to -817 (5/63)
3907-3950 TDH5303 -1041 to -1084 (7/63)
5201-5525 TDH5303 - 2432 to -2756 (12/64 to 3/65)
6401-6900 TDH5303 -3534 to -4033 (10/65 to 2/66)
8001-8202 TDH5303 -5571 to -5772 (2/67)
8300-8779 TDH5303 -5091 to -5570 (12/66 to 2/67)
(Beginning with 8001 and up, TDH5303's were air conditioned.)
(All buses from T6H5305A on are air conditioned.)
4300-4309 T6H5305A -517 to -526 (2/71)
4310-4319 T6H5305A -561 to -570 (2/71)
4320-4329 T6H5305A -603 to -612 (2/71)
4330-4339 T6H5305A -645 to -654 (2/71)
4340-4349 T6H5305A -686 to -695 (3/71)
4350-4361 T6H5305A -527 to -538 (3/71)
4362-4373 T6H5305A -549 to -560 (3/71)
4374-4385 T6H5305A -581 to -592 (3/71)
4386-4396 T6H5305A -613 to -623 (3/71)
4397-4407 T6H5305A -634 to -644 (3/71)
4408-4418 T6H5305A -665 to -675 (4/71)
4419-4429 T6H5305A -696 to -706 (4/71)
4430-4439 T6H5305A -539 to -548 (3/71)
4440-4449 T6H5305A -571 to -580 (3/71)
4450-4459 T6H5305A -624 to -633 (3/71)
4460-4469 T6H5305A -655 to -664 (3/71)
4470-4479 T6H5305A -593 to -602 (3/71)
4480-4483 T6H5305A -676 to -679 (4/71)
4484-4499 T6H5305A -707 to -722 (4/71)
8801-8828 T6H5305A -274 to -301 (11/68)
8829-8878 T6H5305A -224 to -273 (12/68)
8879-8933 T6H5305A -302 to -356 (12/68)
4800-4859 T6H5309A -165 to -224 (12/72)
4860-4919 T6H5309A -375 to -434 (8/73)
6000-6024 T6H5309A -001 to -025 (2/72)
6025-6029 T6H5309A -038 to -042 (2/72)
6030-6044 T6H5309A -055 to -069 (3/72)
6045-6059 T6H5309A -083 to -097 (3/72)
6060-6074 T6H5309A -110 to -124 (4/72)
6075-6089 T6H5309A -137 to -151 (4/72)
6090-6101 T6H5309A -026 to -037 (2/72)
6102-6114 T6H5309A -070 to -082 (3/72)
6115-6126 T6H5309A -125 to -136 (4/72)
6127-6139 T6H5309A -152 to -164 (5/72)
6140-6151 T6H5309A -043 to -054 (3/72)
6152-6163 T6H5309A -098 to -109 (3/72)
6200-6349 T6H5309A -225 to -374 (2/73) SERIALS OUT OF NUMBER ORDER
(Sorry I do not have the breakdown of which serials are which bus
numbers on that last bunch.)
NYCTA/MABSTOA got entire GM production of T6H5309A's.)
4500-4505 T6H5310A -037 to -042 (3/72)
6164-6199 T6H5310A -001 to -036 (3/72)
6901-6920 T6H5310A -043 to -062 (1/73)
6921-6939 T6H5310A -080 to -098 (1/73)
6940 T6H5310A -079 (1/73)
6941-6956 T6H5310A -063 to -078 (1/73)
(The only other T6H5310A's went to MSBA.)
This info reminded me of bus #'s 6901-6956 delivered in Jan. 1973 (T6H5310A). If memeory serves me, practically all of these were express buses. But I remember #6948 had transit seating and operated out of Flushing depot along with the initial 6200's. Was 6948 the only bus in the 6900's that had transit rather than express seating?
I am curious: Which of these “New Look” buses had the “bat wing” advertisement placements on the top sides of the buses? And also, which ones had four window panes on the backs of the buses, and which had only three window panes?
Not sure of which ones had the "batwings" -- but I think there were some of the TDH5303's in the 5500 series, more in the 6700 series and another bunch in the 8000's. Also some of the T8H5305A's in the 8800 series had them too.
I think the only ones delivered with the three-piece rear windows were the 1-190, 501-805, and 1001-1130 groups. I knowthe 2001-2175 had the split rear windows and I assume everything after that did as well.
There was a posting on Bus Talk on March 11,1999 (#1260) listing all NYC buses with bat wings which I printed out. The persons name who listed this didn't print out. I tried to do a search on bus talk but cannot go back that far. Maybe some of you others can but anyway here's the basic list:
3472 First with wings(placed over standee windows)
5516-5525 Placed over standee windows
6701-6900
8001-8202
8301-8780
8829-8878
7753 Only Flxible with wings
631 Only Grumman with wings
Based on the wording I believe it was me who posted the bus numbers regarding the "bat wing" buses. The series 8001-8202 and 8301-8780 were my favorite NYCTA/MaBSTOA buses next to the TDH 4510s
BTW, this series of "bat wing" buses had the most ad racks. One in the front, one on the back and one long one on either side. Plus two small racks in front and behind the rear wheels.
Don't forget the buses 6701 to 6900 plus the last group of 5500 series
TDH5303's (5511-5525).
Joe C
Wing buses were my favorites also. Thanks J.L. for the info. Also,Joe mentioned that the 5500 series wings started at 5511 but J.L.'s list started at 5516. Did wings start at 5511 on this series?
Will recheck my files for the correct numbers. But I'm sure it started at 5516 to 5525.
5516 is the correct number. There were 10 batwing buses in that initial order, probably somewhat of an experiment. It must have worked, as the next order contained 200 batwing buses and the order after had all 692 buses with batwings. There were 50 in the following order, but that was the end of batwings (except for one new look Flxible and one Grumman).
The reason for the end of "batwings"??? Metro Transit Advertising went belly up and the new company, Transit Displays Inc. (TDI) did NOT want to pay the added fees for advertising up there.
Besides NYCTA, "batwings" appeared in Miami, Los Angeles, Kansas City, and possibly one or two other operations. The ones in Kansas City has the front-most triangular panel reversed, so the overall shape of their "batwings" did not match the window pattern.
Kinda like /\ at the ends instread of // or \\
Other transit agencies that used batwings were Transport of N J, New Orleans,Richmond VA, Broward County Florida, West Palm Beach Florida and Grey Lines in Miami(in addition to Miami TA). I once saw a picture either in the NY Post or Daily News back in the late 70's or early 80's with batwings added to a GMC Old Look that was used for a Senior community in Florida. Sorry I didn't save the picture.
Thanks for the additional info. Now that I think of it, I have seen pictures of Transport of New Jersey with them.
And I, too, remember seeing a GM old look with SORT OF "batwings". They wren't the "real thing" but they were pretty close looking. I don't think the ones I'm thinking of were illuminated, but I surely remembe seeing a shorty old look with them.
You can see 2 pics of TNJ's wing buses at Joe Testagrose's collection here at NYCSUBWAY.ORG plus a number of NYCTA buses.
The first New York City bus with bat-wings was 3472.
This was a MaBSTOA bus. However, the wing logo was that of the TA!
It had no destination/route sign as part of the wings.
(Was this the first bus in the U. S. with wings??)
Also, the tips of the "wings" were straight, pointed and sharp not rounded like the future wing orders.
Also, the 5516-5525 series, had a white sticker with green letters placed above the door and driver's window. The sticker simply said: MaBSTOA (the "a" in "and" was a lower case letter). This did not last long and it was replaced by the OA logos and later the two-tone blue "M".
BTW, the 8301-8780 series and the corresponding TA series with bat wings did not have the chrome strip with the GM logo (between the headlights) on the front of the bus. After all it would be covered with the front ad rack.
Great info. After over 30 years of first noticing winged buses, I'm still learning something. Having BUS TALK is a great asset so that's why we must keep the topics just for Buses. I'm glad to share my info.
RE: Wings/Batwings/Kitty ears/Busoramas:
With all of these low-floors coming out--wouldn't it be great if the "wing things" made a comeback? A modern design would fit nicely above the windows and wouldn't obstruct anyone's view. I always thought that illuminated wing advertising gave the busses a very neat "urban-metro" look--especially in NYC !!
Oh, anybody know where I can find pictures of winged buses on this here internet?
Thanks for your answer. But I thought some TDH5303’s also had what you call “three-piece rear windows”, although the majority had the “split rear windows”.
2 corrections:
You listed 1001 to 1030, which you meant to type 1001 to 1130.
Also you listed 8300 to 8779 which should have been 8301 to 8780.
Thanks for the corrections. First one was a simple typo. Easy to do when typing in that many numbers and trying to read the original lists that are in very small print!
The second one is exactly the way General Motors listed it. But what you say makes sense, as the TA bunch started at 8001, and it's almost a definite they would have followed suit within te same orders..
this evening in manhattan, i saw MCI #2102 on WEst Street on the X15. Congradulations to Yukon on getting new express buses. But if they have new buses, then why are they running the old RTS buses still on express buses? Send them To Ulmer Park.
we have received 2105-2115. they await fareboxes. 2103-2104 in service. as they arrive the old buses are being removed from service.the 3800 are much older than 9200 series and will finally be scrapped. if anything orions and 4800 series may go to queens or westside which still use 1700 and 3800 series express buses.
Aren't the express 9200 series buses all in Brooklyn now? With all the additional MCI equipment on S.I. are there any plans for additional express routes?
Nope, don't forget about WS!!!!! 9282-9284 they have. BTW, I saw 3807 going to make first trip on X90.
Peace Out
-Clayton
3807 was on X68 yesterday. And most of the 3800s there are getting repainted and put into service here in Queens.
Q66#384Gary
3807 is out of QV running on the X68...I usually ride this bus every morning. How could it be on the X90?
There are still a few 1700's running out of QV and JAM.
Sorry, my bad, 3804, to my knowlege, I think 1826 is still at WS somewhere.
Peace Out
-Clayton
nyct continues to refuse to service the south shore. local 726 alleges this is due to molinari and his pals at the private bus companies.we have been campaigning for new routes and a third depot for years. these$ 371,000 buses are parked outside all night and until recently were parked on public streets.
I noticed bus 9607 (at hudson) has a small sign. Well, it has the same size sign as the Novas, but the type is in the upper-passengerside corner and it's really small. Anyone know why?
7035 out of QV has the same sign.
Q66#384Gary
It is a defective sign.
How did it become defective, and why?
Also, will it be fixed?
When I was a kid in the 50s there used to be a bus that ran from Pt of Authority, South on 7th Ave, thru the Holland Tunnel, to Jersey City, then South on Hudson Blvd(JFK Blvd) thru Jersey City and Bayonne over the Bayonne Bridge to Staten Island. I think the company then was the Blvd Transit Lines. Is that company still around and or does anyone run that route anymore?
I wish something like that existed today!
Trans-Hudson Express (Red & Tan Lines) has two buses from Jersey City to Staten Island - #122 and 144, weekday rush hours only.
The same company also runs the #99S, along South Hudson/JFK Boulivard from Bayonne to the Port Authority and a local route #10 parrallel t0 the 99S from Bayonne to Journal Square, both lines operating regularly every day.
NJ Transit runs the #120 from Bayonne and Jersey City to Lower Manhattan, weekday rush hours.
Does the TA still run some Staten Island Express Buses through Jersey and back into Manhattan through the Lincoln Tunnel? This isn't what Bob was asking about, but I was wondering about this. In fact, did they also run an afternoon reverse run from Manhattan via Lincoln Tunnel to Staten Island?
The X-17 and X-31 buses operate via the Goethals Bridge, Jersey Turnpike, and Lincoln Tunnel. This is only done in the morning, from Staten Island to Manhattan, and not during the afternoon and evening.
All PM trips to Staten Island go the standard Gowanus/Verrezanno route.
IMHO, I think that all X-17 and 19 trips should be rerouted through Jersey. Especially the 19, which goes express from the VZ Bridge all the way to the West Shore Expressway, then down to Arden Heights. The 31, I don't know which is better, but for the 17 and 19, going through Jersey may be better off.
The x19 is a downtown-only service, going through NJ would actually lengthen the trip. The 31 (all trips) and the midtown 17 (all trip between 6 and 8am) run through NJ. No PM trips do. Oddly, the 17, until recently, ran all the way downtown via 5th and B'way. Now, trips from around 330pm until just before 6 run to 23st, and then via the FDR. x31 PM trips also run to 23st.
-Hank
I have a Route 99S timetable (Trans-Hudson Express) from Dec. 1996 that also shows a Route 55, with one round-trip per day between Staten Island, via Bayonne and Jersey City to Port Authority. The bus left Staten Island (doesn't say where) at 6:30 a.m. and left the Port Authority at 7:50 a.m. I don't know whether it still runs.
I've heard of such a bus and seen evidence of it (signs at the Trans-Hudson bus lane at the PABT), but I think it's been discontinued.
Routes are
33
55
99S
99
This was a local service, but only picked up in Manhatten,outbound. As I said it was the Blvd Transit Lines. I am assuming from FDNY it is still running
the transhudson lines you talk about was the south hudson boulevard bus company. this line ran the 55 between bayonne and staten island from new york city. the 99 which went to jersey city and the 99s went to bayonne only. years ago the 99s went through staten island on its way to keansburg, this service was only during the summer.
I watched a report on channel 11 tonight about how the MTA is gonna get rid of bus fumes. It said that all Diesel Equipment will be extinct by the year 2020. All of the depots are gonna be required either to have hybrids or CNG'S. By 2004, Li Bus/MSBA will all br CNG. (Gilligs and 600 Orions are next to go there) There was mention that 125 Nova Hybrids are coming next year. If they looked at what's going on at JG, then they'll see that the diesel buses are doing a better job than the CNG. And CNG'S have broke down a lot. Every night, there are CNG'S getting towed back into the Garages. I can see Hybrids but not CNG. CNG are too much of a problem. Did anybody catch these news reports?
Q66#384Gary
Every night there are diesels towed back as well. The only difference between a CNG engine and a Diesel engine is the fuel delivery system. And all one needs to do to keep it running (all that is different from a diesel) is maintain the fuel system properly.
Hybrids are NOT diesel-free. They still have a pollution problem, albiet a significantly smaller one. Better maintaince could eliminate 99% of all mechanical failures, no matter the powerplant. In fact, Hybrids have a more complicated drivetrain, since computers do most of the work. The problems at JG stem from a poorly-constructed fueling system, not from unreliable buses. And with the TA buying more diesels in the current capital plan, and 20-year-old buses STILL on the road, I expect that unless a law banning the use of 'pure' diesel power is passed, (the state legislature is considering a law that would only fund clean-air public transit) diesel buses will be around for the next 25 years or more. Better to focus on the non-franchise privates and tour operators, as their maintainence practices are not nearly as extensive as public transit is (ie, more things are regularly maintained such as particulate traps).
-Hank
Something else to consider is the tour operators who innundate the city around this time of year with their drivers who are apparently ignorant of our maximum idle time regulations.
From what i have heard is that the boys in washington are going to pass a law requring the use of alterantive fuels ( cng etc) in large fleets. The new thing with diesel is bio-diesel made with a vegatable base, cleaner burning and if spilled does not cause any major problems except price it costs more than regular diesel. I work for a fuel co. now and this is what has come down the line to us. When we hear more i will pass it on.
Well I prefer CNG's over diesels. It may seem CNG's break down more, but I've been riding the Orion CNG since LI Bus had them and not once did I have a breakdown. On the otherhand, the diesel Gilligs have broken down a few times. And whenever I'm in busy Flushing, I'm seeing NYCT having a breakdown with one of their smelly, dirty diesel Orions.
Diesel buses are so much slower compared to CNG's, they also pollute the air with horrible bus fumes.
I've been riding the Q66 and those Orion CNG's run great and are really fast, they sure leave those old RTS's in the dust.
And when it comes to reliability, CNG is just as reliable of diesel.
Also even when they get old they don't look as dirty as diesels.
I'm glad to see NYCT is finally going to get rid of their diesels, they give me headaches and are slow. Casey Stengal should've been converting to CNG by now.
Sure the 6000 Orions may run nice now, but give 'em a year and they will start sounding like some of those old ones Casey Stengal has.
CNG Orions last longer, and are preferred by most passengers and drivers (at least with LI Bus).
If anything, CNG buses are slower than diesels, due to the extra weight. Otherwise, everything about them is identical, except for the fuel delivery systems. The only thing in your post that is irrefutably true is that the pollution from the CNGs are significantly less.
-Hank
From this riders perspective:
I'm not entirely sure that the diesel Orions are slower than the CNG ones. I was on QSC 704 late Friday night on the QM1, and this bus was haulin'! It was a packed bus too, all 43 seats were taken up, though no standees. Yet this supposedly slow diesel Orion had no problems climbing the Queensboro bridge. Perhaps it was quick because it was an ex-WMATA Orion? I also was delighted at how smooth it felt, without any of the wastegate noise of the CNG's.
Just my 2 cents.
Boy how quickly we forget the 6V-71 engine. What do you guys want a rocket??? The diesel Orions using the DDS-50IV engine are VERY quick. Just stand and observe the Green Line and the TA's 6000 Orions if you need proof. If you listen closely to the DOT diesel Orions you can barely hear the shift from first to second gear, and before you know it you're in third. But that's trannies and we aren't talking about that here are we? Meanwhile the TA's 1995 fleet which uses an older version of the Series 50 is MUCH noisier than the new S50 and in my humble opinion, slower than its 1997-1999 bretheren. However nothing is louder than the Cummins CNG. The CNG S50 engine is the pretty much the same as the diesel isn't it (at least it sounds the same)?
Well I'll admit the 6000 Orions are pretty quick, and the one time I rode on a Green Line Orion it was pretty fast.
I do like the engines in the newer 6000 series Orion diesels NYCT has, and on the Green Line (diesel) Orions as well, they accelerate quicker and are more CNG-like.
However I still don't care for the engines in the older (NYCT)Orions. LI Bus diesel Orions aren't as slow as the older NYCT ones, though there are a few slow ones in the 600s. Funny though, it seems the older LI Bus diesel Orions (500s) seem quicker than the 600 ones. Any reason why?
Also do they still have air starters on their new Orions? I heard a new 6000 series Orion start up the other day without that rocket ship noise, but a regular start.
No air starters anymore. All of the buses purchased/leased since 1998 have been electric start. This is in response to idle time laws, which require the engines to be shut down; and neighborhood complaints of noise from bus starters.
-Hank
i thought some of you might be interested in this. the bus is built in manitoba british columbia and then driven to pembina north dakota for final assembly. from there it is driven to atlantic diesel for final preparation. there si bus operators pick up bus and drive to depot. the process from pembina to nyct takes about a month.
"the bus is built in manitoba british columbia"
You mean it's built in both Manitoba and British Columbia, or are you confusing cities for provinces? I think it's built in Manitoba as that borders North Dakota. Winnipeg is the only city I know of in the pronvince.
sorry i was never good on canadian geography. its actually a canadian product like all the rest. what a pity there are no american transit bus manufacturers
Wasn't TMC the last one?
they had a plant in roswell n.m. still used by nova who builds buses in st eustache canada.
Isn't Gillig an American bus manufacturer?
By the way, Gillig low floor models can be found at many Hertz locations, as well as with Palm Tran in Florida. Don't know where else you can find them.
Gillig Is American!
Trevor
You can find Gilligs in San Francisco Bay Area in SamTrans, LA Foothill Transit, LADOT and Culver City Has them, and Seattle has just bought a bunch of them. Also Honolulu has quite a few of them. I am trying to think of other places. They are made in the SF Bay Area
You can now find Gilligs running with the newly merged Hampton Roads Transit over in Hampton-Newport News, VA and Gillig Lo-Floors making the run between Hampton and Norfolk-Virginia Beach.
i saw them in florida at sea world. i heard they were not that great and remind me of grumman and orion. nyct never considers buying them.
They are made in Hayward, California -- right off SR92, at the east end of the San Mateo Bridge.
Virtually every transit agency in California, Oregon, and Washington has them -- with the exception of LACMTA, SF Muni, NCTD, Long Beach Transit in California. Almost every city in the other two states has a fleet of Gilligs.
There are over 200 cities/operations that have Gillig buses from coast to coast. The furthest north/east I know of are in Connecticut, though Hertz has some at Logan Airport in Boston. And there has been only ONE delivered to a Canadian operator -- an airline in Toronto has one Phantom. Otherwise they are everywhere.
Just go out to Suffolk County! They have quite a few different vintages. I believe their very early ones -- 1981 units -- are all gone.
A long time ago(around 1990) when I was a young boy, I was going somewhere in San Mateo County with my parents on highway 92 and I turned my head left and spotted some parked buses that looked like Gillig phantoms. They were not in AC Transit's logo or colors nor
Samtrans' ones, but some other company logo and colors. That is all I know period!
I have a question Steve, do you know if the Gillig people will let
me take some pictures of the parked buses or coaches that are being build?
Arthur
Mark
It's my understanding a couple of bus fans were caught sneaking around the property on the railroad right-of-way a few years ago, and that's what set Gillig off against bus fans.
Even if you're a licensed bus driver, the guards won't let
you in to photograph buses for the some reasons?
By law, you know we can't do or have certains things without a license
certificate, degree, or being of age(18, 21, or 25)?
Arthur
Being a licensed bus driver makes NO difference regarding photographing the buses. They are on PRIVATE PROPERTY and if the property owner does not wish to have you on their property, you don't go on their property. The people at Gillig do not take too kindly to bus fans -- even when they were less aggressive, they still wouldn't allow people to visit just to take pictures. You either grabbed the photos out in theparking lot where you could drive in, or you didn't.
Middletown CT Transit System (not connected with CT Transit) has/had
some, don't know how many or what year. Got a pic of one back in 1995 or 96, it was a 35 footer.
2 TA's in MA have Gillig Phantoms: Lowell has 13 1994 30 footers, they are about to receive 2.7 million dollars over 3 years to replace the entire LRTA fleet, rumor has it it will be Gilligs, unknown if it will be Phantoms or Advantages. Merrimack Valley (Haverhill) has 44 35 foot Phantoms, 14 from 1996, 12 from 1999, and 18 2004's that just entered service over the last few weeks.
3 TA's in NH have Gilligs: Nashua Transit has 7 30 foot 2003 Advantages, and before the arrival of the Advantages they had 2 ex-Lynchburg VA 1987 30 foot Phantoms. COAST (Portsmouth) has some 2002 30 foot Advantages, plus they have a few 1987 40 foot Phantoms that they bought used a few years ago, unknown from where, they use them for trippers/spares. Manchester Transit has 2 35 foot Phantoms, one 1998 and one 2000.
One system in Maine has Gilligs: South Portland Bus Service has at least 1 (that I've seen anyway) 30 foot Phantom, unknown what year or how many. They only use 4 buses in peak service, 2 in evenings & on Saturdays. They also have an Orion V and a couple of Thomas SLF 200's that I've seen.
Mark
People you don't realize we have Gillgags in our backyard.MSBA(excuse me LI Bus) has about 60 of them both 40 and 35 footers
Actually, they had 62 of them. The 35-footers were 500-519 (Gillig serials J1082061-J1082080) and the 40 footers were 520-556 (serials J1082081-J1082117) and 557-561 (J1082227-J1082231.
They were delivered in late 1987 and early 1988, s they should be prime candidates for retirement in the next couple years.
Suffolk Transit has shitloads of them. As I understand, the county buys the buses and distributes them among a bunch of small contract operators in each area.
In 1982, they got 31 units.
In 1986, they got 31 units.
In 1987, they got 3 units -- supposedly replacements for fire
damaged buses at Suffolk Bus Company in Bay Shore
In 1991, they got 25 units.
In 1996, they got 40 units.
In 1997, they got 15 units.
Suffolk County has bought, almost exclusively, Gillig Phantoms since 1982. There was ONE order of 30-foot Flxible Metro's -- I don't know why Gillig didn't get that order as they DID have their 30-foot Phantom available way before then.
Long Beach replaced the 30 foot flxibles with 30 foot Gilligs somewhere about 1987-1990 (just cant recall when exactly) They also had one RTS there. The biggest problem there was the garage it was so tight that once in a while someone would clip a pole or bus when moving around. It also was the garage for the trucks and cars for the city.
Oh yeah, forgot about Long Beach (NY) having Gilligs, too. And they had the one and only RTS in Nassau County for the longest while, but I understand MTA LI Bus got some NYCTA hand-me-downs.
The Long Beach (NY) Gilligs delivered in 1987 AND 1990 and they also got more in 1997.
Here's what I show on the Gillig Phantom production lists:
158-161 3596TB6V71N H1081799-H1081802 1987
162-165 3096TB6V92 L1083545-L1083548 1990
166-168 C20A096N4 V1087489-V1087491 1997
That last bunch has a completely different model number. Gillig changed the model numbering system in late 1996, but they are basically the same as the middle bunch except they have Series 50 engines (the "20" in the model number denotes a Series 50).
Just for information's sake, here's the entire breakdown of that new model system at Gillig:
C-High Floor Bus
G-Low Floor Bus
S-School Bus
12-Cummins L10 engine
15-Detroit 6V71 engine
18-Cummins C8.3 engine
20-Detroit Series 50 engine
21-Cummins M11 engine
22-Detroit Series 40 engine
A-30 foot
B-35 foot
C-37 foot (school buses only use this)
D-40 foot
E-28 foot
096-96 inches wide
102-102 inches wide
N4-four airbag rear suspension
I think Culver City has retired their Gillig Phantoms (they were built in 1983 after all), but I'm not 100% sure about that.
Gilligs seem to be awfully school bus like. I don't like them at all. I think the good days of US built buses has passed.
Wayne
Funny you should mention that!
We still have 136 Phantoms at the agency where I work, all 1988 and 1989 models. And that's just what all my fellow drives and I think of them -- school buses with exit doors.
They ride like shit, they steer like tanks, and every damn thing in them rattles, shakes, squeaks. And they did that the day they left the factory!!
Gillig is definitely American (though the name itself is Danish, I believe). The company was founded by two brothers in the late 1800's, and their specialty then was funeral wagons and later hearses! They then went on to produce school buses, the early models of which looked very much like very early Crowns. As the school bus market is NOT a big one -- the buses don't get replaced too often -- in 1980 they decided to go into transit buses, which they still make today. In 1985, they modified the design of their Phantom transit bus to a school bus design, and a few hundred were made mainly fr California school districts. Very few of the Phantom school buses are made nowadays, but the Phantom high-floor transit bus and the H2000LF low-floor transit bus are in daily production. (They don't run a 24-hour, 7-day production line, though, current production is about twelve buses a week.)
Where else can you find their low-floor buses besides Hertz (who has ordered over 200 of them)? Here's the places I know of:
Ann Arbor Transporation Authority, MI
Ben Franklin Transit, WA (Richland)
Broward County Mass Transit District, FL (Fort Lauderdale)
Cambria County Transit Authority, PA (Johnstown)
Capital Metropolitan Transit Authority, TX (Austin)
Central Pinellas Transit Authority, FL (Clearwater)
Cyride, IA (Ames)
DFW Airport (Texas)
Duluth Transit Authority, MN
Fresno Area Express, CA
Hillsborough Area Regional Transit, FL (Tampa)
Indiana University (Bloomington, IN)
Intercity Transit, WA (Olympia)
Kansas City Area Transportation Authority, MO
Lane Transit District, OR (Eugene)
Montebello Municipal Bus Lines, CA
New Castle Area Transit Authority, PA
Norwalk Transit System, CA
Oakland Airport, CA
Palmtran, FL (West Palm Beach)
Pentran, VA (Hampton Roads)
Rochester Transit Company, MN
Skagit County Transit, WA (Mount Vernon)
The Bus, HI (Honolulu)
Tidewater Regional Transit Authority, VA (Norfolk)
Toledo Area Regional Transit Authority, OH
Transit Authority of River City, KY (Louisville)
Utah Transit Authority, UT (Salt Lake City)
Valley Transit Authority, CA (San Jose)
TARC in Louisville, KY, has them as the main bus of the fleet as well.
The American and Canadian manufacturing industries (especially the automotive industry) have been interlinked for years. Even the 'Parts Content' law considers Canadian and US vehicles one and the same (if you read the contents sticker, there's "North American" content, "Mexico"...)
For tariff purposes, Canadian built vehicles are NOT considered imports, but vehicles built in Mexico are.
-Hank
mci is owned by dina which is run by a mexican consortium. so therefore its not an american product.unfortunately no us companies build over the road buses.
If anybody planning a bus pic or bus fanning trip around the middle of the month let me know. I would love to join and get to know some of the people on BusTalk...........
B46M Limited via Utica/Malcolm X/Bway
TransiTALK is the process of planning another field trip for January!
Contact me via e-mail, and I'll give you details!
Trevor
Abyone know about the following series of RTS? The 4000 series are rebuilt? They look the same inside and out. They also have a 6V-92TA
but with DDEC. Were this series rebuilt? The 8000 and 9000 series are new. What year where they built or ordered?
The 4000 series RTS have receive a Quality Control Level II process which included at small rebuilding of components in need of repair plus the repaint. The ONLY TRUE rebuilt RTS in the TAs fleet are the 7000 series (Rebuilt by the NYCT's Central Maintenance Facility) and the 7500 series (Rebuilt by the Midwest Bus Corporation). Other buses that look like the've gotten rebuild, more than likely had just gotten a repaint.
The 8000 and 9000 are being subject to the new repainting scheme too. But those are some of the most recent buses in the system
8000-8399 are 1990-91s (8398 being Dual Fuel, 8399 CNG, 8397 Hybrid)
8400-8567 are 1993s (8567 being CNG)
8600-8703 are 1994s
8750-9249 are 1996s
9250-9349 are 1997s
9350-9699 & 4900-5074 are 1998s
5075-5249 are 1999s
I know many of you may already know this, but this is just a recap.
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Founder/Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk/
As you probably know, March 1, 2000, is the tentative date for the start of Light Rail Service on Hudson Bergen Light Rail between Bayonne and Exchange Place (Jersey City). Does anyone know of any plans to have bus service between the southernmost station of HBLR in Bayonne and Staten Island? It would seem to make some sense, but I suspect there is nothing in the works right now. For some Staten Islanders, a combination bus-HBLR-PATH run may not be a bad way to get to Manhattan despite the 2 transfers. Plus, there must be a number of Staten Islanders working in Jersey City.
Earlier today I saw LI Bus Orion #621 along Merrick Road in Lynbrook with a sign that read, "N91 JFK Flyer". Is N91 the official route number for the JFK Flyer Route? Never having seen it before, is the N91 designation used frequently?
That sign N91 is displayed on the Giligs and any other regular bus that runs on that route. N92 is the sign for the Nassau Shuttle I believe when that route runs regular buses also.
Y'know those stickers that they have around (in a circle around) the bus depot stickers on buses sometimes that say "quality control"? What are they, and what does it mean?
Nothing, anymore. They're on every bus.
-Hank
Every depot has it's own sticker with a unique design except
Flatbush which just shows a bus front with no design.
The NYC Transit museum is selling two old designs of stickers
1) 146st street depot Bronx division(now renamed Mother Clara Hale)
2) walnut depot (closed)
.
I think the command centre and some other maintenance facilities
may also have their own designs.
Do any bustalkers have any of these stickers availble to trade??
Regards
Rob :^)
London UK
I can sell a CLIPBOARD with Kingsbridge and Castleton on it, its round with Castleton on top and Depot on bottom with regular design. Same with Kingsbridge. I'll sell it for...hmm....5 bucks, 1 for the board, 1.50 for each sticker and 1 for profit :-)
Peace Out
-Clayton
"Nothing, anymore. They're on every bus."
Well what did they used to mean?
Quality control stickers noted: affixd to vehicles:
East NY Depot: ENY logo with side view of bus
Flatbush : Bus front end!
Fresh Pond : pond with rushes and wildlife
Jackie Gleason: logo as from TV show style
Ulmer Park :linking hands logo
Amsterdam : windmill,tulips bus side
Gun Hill : Eagle logo
Kingsbridge : bridge and bus logo
M C Hale :feeding baby (hale house childrens org)
126th Street : roman numerals 1 2 6
Hudson Pier : pier logo over water
Manhattanville: city skyline with MV
Westside : Compass face with W estside
Casey Stenngel: bus 3/4 view with C
Jamaica : J A Logo
Queens Village: Q V Logo
Castleton: castle
Yukon : Y with "moose" head
.
Command Centre also has a logo with
radio antenna and bus with dispatchers car.
.
Any more to add to the above!>>>??
.
Here in London similar district quality control
logos have been used but very few buses now carry them
and the stickers themselves are "hot" property! fetching
quite a price at bus buff events and depot opendays.
Regards
Rob ;^)
Nveremind the best depot to wirk in, who has the best logo??
I vote for Yukon
I have to vote for Kingsbridge Depot in The Bronx/Upper Manhattan for the Best Depot logo. Winding up the top 3 are:
2.Yukon
3.Casey Stengel
If I had to pick # 4 it'd be Castleton.
Q66#384Gary
I VOTE ULMER PARK AS HAVING THE WORST LOGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANDY/ULMER PK
"I VOTE ULMER PARK AS HAVING THE WORST LOGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Flatbush is worse! At least Ulmer Park is proud of their hard work and teamwork, but Flatbush is only acknowledging themselves as a Bus Depot. Southern Brooklyn has the crappiest logos, that's for sure.
I agree that a lack of creativity causes a depot to have the worst logo. True FLA might suck, but what about Jamaica? Is "JA" all they can come up with??? What about some palm trees and a beach (as in the island of Jamaica), with some tropical colors, maybe a map of Queens with a bus coming out of it, or SOMETHING. "JA"--no way!!! Jamaica is my vote for worst, while Casey Stengel leads the pack for the best (I'm a Mets fan, so I may be a bit biased)
What about QV? Those letters don't even interlock.
At least in those they use their initials, in Flatbush, and even Ulmer Park, it might as well be the logo for any depot in the city.
Best depot logos...
1. Fresh Pond
2. Yukon
3. Kingsbridge
and I agree - Ulmer Park leads the pack for worst...
My personal favorite is Fresh Pond. The design and colors.
B46M Limited
I agree with B46Mike on Fresh Pond for the same reasons.
Fresh Pond is my 4th favorite. My favorite is Kingsbrigde, followed by Jackie Gleason, and Hudson Pier (I think that last one is biased).
For worst: Amsterdam, Westside, Ulmer Park, and Flastbush.
How can you NOT put Casey Stengel and Amsterdam as numbers 1 and 2.
Maybe if they slapped an Orion on the diamond instead of an RTS which Stengel has not had for like 3 years i would vote for Stengel.
Worst logo: Flatbush, how plain
Worse than worse: West Side
Well, at least I hear that Westside wants to change it's logo perhaps becasue it was designed in haste for the depot's opening. Flatbush has always had that dumb logo and does not want to change it.
Before the Arrival of the Orions,People forget that Stengal(nee Flushing)had a large Fleet of 1500's,1700's and 3900's
Best depot logo is Jackie Gleason.
Actually, in addition to the bus for Stengel, it has a baseball diamond (is that similar to a cricket field?).
Visit NYC-MTA-BUSSES Page 2 run by BusTalk's own "Meaney." It includes stories about all of the current depots (and some closed ones) and all of their logos in black and white.
You have all the logos correct except the "C" in the Stengel logo is actually an outline of the Shea Stadium grandstands and field.
If memory serves me, at about the time the subway fleet was full of graffiti, the bus fleet was terrible also. Each depot started a program of cleaning up each bus and not letting it out if it had any graffiti on it or if the A/C or heat didn't work, etc. As each bus was put into such a program, a quality control sticker was added. Eventually, every bus was part of the program (and still is, I guess).
At THIS depot they still mean Quality Control. It's a recent program here & buses get added to the group after a extensive PM. They then become a "Pride of the Fleet" bus. We ask the drivers to take special pride in that bus & make sure that any condition that detracts from it being one of the best in the fleet be written up. Maint. then is charged with correcting the problem, vs. letting it go because it doesn't prevent it from operating in revenue service.
At the TA facilities it's more a take pride in our depot thing.
Mr t__:^)
357-360 GMC RTS04 1985
365
368-369
373-374
380
421=428 MCI Classic 1988
430
432-434
436-449
451-452
454=455
458
460-465
467
469-470
472-481
499 MCI Classic 1989
4903-4926 TMC RTS 06 1994 CNG
4932-4975 ORION 5.501 1998 CNG
1001 GMC RTS 02 1979
1003-1015
=========================
221-228 GMC RTS04 1985
240-268
649-650
655-658
636-639 GMC RTS04 1985
641-647
270-292 GMC RTS 04 1986
602-608 GMC RTS 06 1986
610-635
640
648
651=654
701-704 MCI Classic 1989 53seats
705-712 50
717-718 50
713-716 46
-----------------------------------------
1150-1182 TMC RTS06 1994
5501-5544 Orion 5.501 1997
531 GMC RTS 04 1980
401-402 FLX *70 1981
404-408
411
413
416
418
420-421 FLX 870 1981
423
501-511 GMC RTS 04 1985
530
512-515 GMC RTS 04 1986
517-523
525-529
551-567 GMC RTS04 1986
571-580 GMC RTS 06 1986
601-607 MCI CLassic 1989 53 seater
608 46
3701 TMC RTS 06 1986
3830-3853 TMC RTS 06 1994
3001-3076 MC Classsic 1988 53 seat
3101-3110 MCI Classic 1989 45 seat
1481-1505 GMC oF Canada T8H 5307A 1982
1600-1602 GMC of Canada Classic 1984
1604-1686 MCI Classic 1988 53 seat
1688-1697
1700-1709 MCI Classic 1989 45 seat
1711-1714 Orion 5.501 1999
Steve,
Thanks for the rosters. Just wanted to let you know that the 1982 GM/Canada Fishbowls are 96 inches wide which makes their model designation T8H-5308A. Also it's rarely used but Classics' model designation is TC40102A (or TC40102N for non A/C buses). Only one other GM bus used this model designation scheme and those were the 53 articulated fishbowls built by GM/Canada in 1983 - They are TA60102N (none of them have A/C).
Wayne
27 GMC RTS 04 1985
29
32
33
35-36
40
207
209-210
212-213
215-216
220-221
225
231-232
234
236
240-241
43 GMC RTS 06 1986
46=54
244-247
250-258
270-274
900-954 MCI Classic 1988
275-389 TMC RTS 06 1994
700-705 Orion 5.501 1997
500-581 Orion 5.501 1998-1999
Steve, et. al.,
GMC RTS left: 43, 48, 52, 53, 209, 216, 225, 234, 245, 250, 251,
254 - 258, 272
Orion: lowest 400 = 407, highest 498, total just over 50 & growing.
Mr t__:^)
This is a long posting,and the last
640 GMC RTS 04 1985
642
644-647
649-659
661-664
666-684
685 GMC RTS 04 1986
687-691
693-715
716-723 GMC RTS 06 1986
725-740
761-763
764-767 MCI Classic 1989 53 seats
769-779
781-787
789-794
2050-2073 TMC RTS 06 1994 CNG
2801-2829 TMC RTS 06 1994
--------------------------------------
1183-1184 TMC RTS 06 1994
---------------------------------------
3000-3071 Orion 5.501 1998 CNG
Inactive Buses (including diesel conversions and Transfer to other operator)
M1 and M4 GMC RTS 06 1988
2136-2145 TMC RT 06 1994
2147 Methanol (11)
These are Revisions ONLY
B1 Manhtn Bch
Kngsboro CC
(UP)
B7 Midwood
Coney Is Av (ENY)
B49 Bed=Stuy
Fulton St
via Ocean Av
Via Rogers Av (FLA)
B49 Manhatn bch
Kngsboro CC
via Bedford Av
via Ocean Av (FLA)
X13 Downtown
Worth St (Yukon)
X13 PT RICHMOND
(YUKON)
X14 W.MIDTOWN
VIA WATER ST
VIA F.D.R DR (YUKON)
X27 MIDTOWN
57 ST
VIA CHURCH
VIA MADISON (UP AND JG)
X28 MIDTOWN
57 ST
VIA CHURCH
VIA MADISON (UP AND JG)
X28 CHELSEA
23 ST (U P AND JG)
X29 MIDTOWN
57 ST
VIA CHURCH
VIA MADISON
(UP AND JG DEPOTS)
X29 CONEY ISLAND
W 37 ST REMOVE
(UP)
X29 CONEY ISLAND
STILWELL AV
VIA C.I. AV (UP AND JG)
---------------------------------------------------
M1 PARK PL (HALE)
M9 UNION SQ (HUD)
M10 MIDTOWN
PENN STA
VIA CNTRL PK W
VIA 7 AV (WEST)
M10 WEST VILLAGE
ABINGDON SQ REMOVE
(WEST)
M10 HOUSTON ST REMOVE
(WESTSIDE)
M20 LINCOLN CTR
66 ST
VIA 8 AV (WS AND HUDSON)
M20 BAT PK CITY
VIA 7 AV (WS AND HUDSON)
M72 EAST SIDE
YORK AV
CROSSTOWN (WS)
M72 WEST SIDE
FREEDOM PL
CROSSTOWN (WESTSDIDE)
M96 EAST SIDE
1 AV
CROSSTOWN (WS)
M96 RIVERSIDE DR
CROSSTOWN (WS REMOVE
M100 E HARLEM
2 AV --125 ST
VIA BWAY
VIA AMSTRDM (KING)
M100 INWOOD
220 ST
VIA AMSTRDM
VIA BWAY (KING)
M104 50 ST
VIA 8 AV (AMS)
M106 WEST SIDE
WEST END AV
CROSSTOWN (WS)
M106 RIVERSIDE DR REMOVE
BX1 LIMITED
165 ST (KING)
BX26 CO-OP CITY
EARHART LA
VIA ALLERTN (GH)
BX26 BEDFORD PK
LEHMAN COLL
VIA ALLERTN (GH)
BX26 CO-OP CITY
EARHART LA
VIA GUN HILL (GH)
BX26 FORDHM CTR
192 ST
VIA GUN HILL (GH)
BX41 MOTT HAVEN
136 ST
VIA WEBSTER (KING)
BX41 233 ST (KING)
BX41 LIMITED
MOTT HAVEN
136 ST
VIA WEBSTER (KING0
B9 KINGS PLZ
VIA 60 ST
VIA AVENUE M (JG)
B9 BAY RIDGE
SHORE ROAD
VIA AVENUE M
VIA 60 ST (JG)
S53 BAY RIDGE
95 ST CASTLETON -REMOVE
X14 DOWTOWN
LOOP CASTLETON REMOVE
X17 EAST MIDTOWN
VIA WEST ST
VIA MADISN (YUKON) REMOVE
L3 LENOX TERM
148-POWELL (HALE) REMOVE
L3 135-LENOX (HALE) REMOVE
FS SHUTTLE TO
PROSPECT PK
SUBWAY STA (JG) REMOVE
FS SHUTTLE TO
FULOTN ST
SUBWAY STA (JG) REMOVE
RECEPTION CTR (ALL) REMOVE
E/F TRAINS TO
FOREST HILLS-71 AV (ALL)
#3 TRAIN TO
PENN AV (ALL)
You are current up to Spring 2000
looking at the revisions,,you should be able to figure out HOW the signs changed
Please do not ask if I have any type of codes,,unless you want FDNY or NYPD codes,,
I will give you Radio Ten Codes ONLY
10-4 acknowledgment
Read the M20 and M10 signs
Since when does the M104 go to 50th Street??? Last time I cheked, it went to 42/1st.
This is a slated NORTHBOUND Short Turn ,,This is New
Steve
I see. I guess you can't get a bus from 50th to 42nd on New Years.
Please note,,most Manhattan route s have short turns ,,as well as many other routes in NYC
This is not reflecting New Years Eve
Read the rest of the Destination Sign Readings for NYC Transit and DOT
Steve
B1 Manhatan Bch
Oriental Blvd Ulmer Pk Depot
B7 E 16 St
Kings Hwy St E N Y
B49 Bed-Stuy
Fulton St Flatbush
B49 Manhattan Bch
Oriental Blvd Flatbush
X14 West Midtown
Via CHurch
Via Madison Av Yukon
X27 Midtown
via Madison
=Ulmer Pk and Gleason
X28 Midtown
via Madison
Ulmer Pk and Gleason
Note--x27 x28 x29 Signs for Ulmer Pk and Jackie Gleason Depots
x29 Midtown
via Chrch
via Madisn
X29 COney Island
w 37 st
x29 Coney Island
Stillwell Av
X27 28 29 signs are same for Ulmer Pk and Jackie GLeason Signs
--------------------------------------
January 2000 Deletions
M9 Union Sq
15 st Hudson Depot
N10 Bat Pk City
M10 West Village
Abingdon Sq
M20 is coming out of West Side and Hudson
M72 York Av
Crosstown
M72 West End Av
Crosstown
M72 comes out of West Side
M96 1 Av
Crosstown
M96 Riverside Dr
Crosstown
M96 comes out of West Side Depot
M100 E Harlem
2 av
via Bway / 125 st
M100 Inwood
220 st
M100 comes out of Kingsbridge depot
M106 West End Av
Crosstown
M106 Riverside Dr
M106 comes out of West Side
Bx 26 Co-op City
Earhart La
Bx26 Paul ----205
via Allertn
Bx26 C0-op City
Earhart La
Bx26 Fordhm Ctr
192 st
Bx26 comes out of Gun Hill Depot
Bx41 Mott haven
133 st
Via Webster
comes out of Kingsbridge depot
-------------------------------
Bx41 Murdock av
Bx41 Limited
Mott Haven
133 st
via Webster
B9 Kings Plaza
B9 Bay Ridge
Shore Rd
B9 comes out of Gleason
S53 Bay Ridge
95 st Sta
X14 Downtown
Loop
X17 East Midtown
Via West St
Via Madisn
The 3 about readings come out of Castleton Depot
L3 Lenox Term
145-Powell
L3 135--Lenox
L3 comes out of mother Hale Depot
FS Shuttle to
Prospect Pk
Subway Sta
FS SHuttle
Fulton St
Subway Sta
FS route came out of GLeason Depot
Reception Ctr
E/F Trains to
71--Continental
#3 trains to
Penn Av
the last 3 readings are on all Buses
Update your files,,current to Jan 2000
Read the Signs,might answer some of your questions
Are you sure about the B9? I took it on saturday, and it said "B9 KINGS PLAZA".
These are proposed or future changes for January 2000
does anyone out there know what depots were the last to run those
old look gm's? i've seen pictures of the 7000's(1957 gm) showing
them on the M15 as late as sept 1972 and 9000's(1958 gm) in
staten island,also in sept 1972.i've also seen a picture of 7015
on the B46 dated jun 1970 and 7014 on the B54 dated sept 1972.
did these buses finish their careers in flatbush & fresh pond?
ANDY/ULMER PARK
I posted something about this on Wed Dec 1 (post#8906) under title "Old Busses on the MTA/NYCTA". You can search back for this. If not, 126 St.,Fresh Pond and Flatbush were the last to run Old Looks that I know of. They were retired in 1973 with the arrival of the 6200/6300 fishbowls. 7030 was the last one I ever saw running on the B53(now Q54).
i do remember that ulmer park had the last 9000 running(around 1993) number #9178
You didn't read the question.
9178 is a new look Flxible, not an old look GM. You're about 20 years too late!
In Port Newark, New Jersey, ex NYCTA TDH-5303 # 8199, is actively being used as a cafeteria. This bus is still painted in two tone blue, but very faded. There are two smoke stacks for the grills that were built inside the bus. The exterior is pretty much intact but the interior is "shot up". I dont think this bus could run but I could be wrong.
Does anyone know if this bus is the same one that was in Staten Island?
this should be a landmark. exactly where does one find it. 8199 would have been a 1967 gm. when was it on staten island.
Take Route 1/9 to Port Newark Exit. Follow signs for Port Newark, the bus is located on Marlin Street.
thanks have you tried the food?
I live in So. Ca and am the proud owner of NYCTA 6149. This bus is used in alotof movies out here. I also have 3 of the glasstop T6H 5307 A's from the Port Authority of NY & NJ. I am a big GM fan and have many more buses. Looking to trade pics also
Gun Hill depot has started taking delivery of their new articulated buses. 5252-5259 were delivered last week. Does anyone know the assignment of these new buses?
Also, Yukon has over 400 buses on its property as 2104-2115 were spotted there by me today. What is going on over there. Most of the 3800's and 4800's and Orions still appreared to be in service? Does anyone know where these older buses will be going?? Before anyone says it, CASEY STENGEL DOES NOT NEED ANY MORE ORION COACHES!! They have 14 for the one route they have! Maybe QV can run them (QV tested #294 in service back in 1995, and from what I gather, the tests went ok).
QV could use a few of those coaches...the 1700's and 3800's are probably on their way to the retirement depot.
QV had 568 as a test a few months back. However, my friend over at QV said that there's no way that they will get Orion Coaches. They have no room for them. The reason why 568 was there is because all drivers must be trained with each type of bus. Soon, an SI MCI will be at the Queens Depots. Also LF buses, Artics, etc.
Q46#8357Gary
Thats right I did see 568 over there but I thought nothing of it. I figured it was a Q27 operator on a personal. If they retire the 1700's and 3800's and move the 9200's to JAM, why couldn't they house the Orion coaches? Is there a structural problem with the depot?
BTW, 8357 is a pretty fast bus. I rode it recently on the Q83. QV's 1990's are pretty good overall
And 8357 has a surprise in it. It's STOP REQUESTED sign came from a blitz bus.
Q46#8357Gary
I know I saw 8357 working as a training bus sometime last year.
Wierd how they let a fast bus be used as a training bus.
3902 and 3950 are back and are operating out of JG depot?! Also heard that bus 4141 is operating out of QV?! IS this true? And also 3243 and 3258 are retired.
Q19A
3243 is still alive and kicking out of QV...saw her this morning on Hillside Ave.
the following 83 rts' (ex-oa) are still active out of ulmer park;
3299,3298,3297,3295,3285,3282.also 3321 & 3059.
82 rts exp coaches being used on locals;1760,1761,1834.
laying dead in the yard;4706,4710,3160,4865,4006.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
1815 spotted on gowanus today.
I think the lifts can't take the Orions at QV. QV has 9252-9256 and only 1 Main Express Route: X68.(X32 only run on school days.) CS has 101-114 and only 1 Express Route too: X51. 15 buses are plenty to run on such a route. And it's a little help that coaches run on local routes.
Q46#8357Gary
That doesn't make sense. Think about this:
Your company is trying to sell a product to me. I own 1000 of a competitors product, and all of my expensive, heavy-duty maintainance equipment is set up for this product. Now your product is comparable in almost every way (size, weight, capacity..), but you can sell me yours cheaper, and they'll last a little longer. Will I buy your product?
Most likely.
Now, a different guy comes along, has all the same specs as above, except I'm gonna make you buy all-new heavy maintainance equipment, because my product is just a little different. Will I buy it?
No.
Of course, I can already see someone applying this to the purchase of New Flyer D60s, but those are of a significantly different design (being 20' longer) and a comparison can't be made (and that's why the artics can only go to certain depots, because they need to have a lift capable of lifting a 60' bus)
-Hank
First, JAM was picked as the worst depot by a few of you, now it CSJAMQV (a Queens Division name if I ever saw one) says it has the worst logo. Well, all I can say is if a depot can maintain, perhaps the best fleet in the city, it can't be all that bad. JAM has always ranked in the top 3 in maintenance. I'm not sure how they did this year, but their oldest buses (the 1700 and 1800's) look better than most other depots newest buses.
Oh and yes, the Q5A (now the Q85) is a JAM route.
I think the bashing was more because of their facility. A friend of mine works out of JA, amenity wise he wished he picked QV.
Hey I was just being objective. I'm no homer. I call it as I see it. Jamaica Depot's building absolutely SUCKS. Only West Farms before it was completely torn down was worse. And its logo...at least Flatbush uses more than two colors. Jamaica has been crapped on for a long time now. Only UP gets treated worse than JAM when it comes to new buses. Until 1996, JAM's newest buses were 10 years old!! I will admit that they do an excellent job on their fleet.
QV has to be 1 of the best maintained fleet in Queens. And especially if they're having 3900 and 7000 remans running around. I see 1852 every morning on Queens Blvd and she looks and runs great.
And if most of the drivers at QV prefer 8300s rather than 4900 or 9300 series buses, then they must take good care of their buses. For example: I rode 8357 the other day and she flew like a bird and didn't hear a squeak when her brakes were applied. As far as Jamaica Depot is concerned, they're next on the list under QV. They're well maintained, but when they had their 3900s, they were mad slow. And some of the 4500s are the same way too: slow. Yet I have to say, their 8900, 9000, 9500 and 5100 series run with pride at Jamaica Depot.
Q46#8357Gary
I always thought that the Queens Depots took good care of their buses. Casey Stengel doesn't seem to be quite as good as they were in the 70/80's. In those days many buses looked not so good, but Flushing buses always looked good had all lights working etc.
Wayne
Casey Stengel has the poorest quality when it comes to buses. They appear to be dirty and marked up especially the windows. And the 1993 Models jolt when they speed up. No wonder why there are always out of service.
Q46#8357Gary
Saw this movie today and while this bus is supposed to be shot in NY, I saw a 422X bus. Also a kid is hit by an unknown bus #. All it had was the MTA decal.
Mr MTA
Can't say I'm sorry to see too many RTS's leave active service, but one I wish the TA would have saved was MaBSTOA's #2201. Not only was it one of the first to arrive on the property, it was unique in that it had 4 roof hatches, while all others have two. Of course, the powers that be are almost always in favor of the TA over MABSTOA.
Joe C
well let me tell you it served its last days right here at yukon depot along with 2202. i remember its uniqueness. of course the ac never worked so those four hatches came in handy. 1201 was saved and restored. hopefully it will make an appearance at year 2000 bus festival.
I thought I had seen a bus with 4 hatches. No wonder.
-Hank
about a month ago nyct repainted 3860 and probably gave it a minor overhaul. today the bus sits under depot i assume awaiting scrap along with 3840,3851,3880,1722 1749 1722 and surprise 4875.
sorry last bus 1771
Wasn't 1771 at UP?
mm2000
1771 was not at u.p.
ANDY/UP
Repainting buses just to scrap them soon after. Ripping off logos/fleet numbers and applying new ones - also to buses that are about to be disposed of. Why do they do these things??? I'm convinced that their purpose is to waste resources. I'd be ashamed to be in a management position at the NYCTA because it's grossly mismanaged.
Wayne
well i was a dispatcher in 1988 for a brief time. couldnt believe you couldnt even find an accident form then to complete, heard its the same way now. totally insane management.
Here are the stickers from best to worst:
1.KB
2.YUK
3.CS
4.CAS
5.FP
6.QV
7.JG
8.MHV
9.MCH
10.GH
11 126 ST
12 WS
13.AMS
14.HP
15 ENY
16.FLA
17.UP
Brooklyn is the worst except for JG!!! The reason their logos are the worst is because they have the worst buses. Go figure!
MM2000
Anyone know about the greyhound coaches? I need info on the MC-9s.
What are the torque and horsepower ratings?
The newer buses I know have DD Series60 engines.
The MC9s seems slow going uphill.
I don't know it's torque & horsepower figures but remember MC-9's came with both the DD 8V-71N and DD 6V-92TA. It's been many years since I've seen a 'Hound MC-9 with an 8V-71N engine.
Wayne
I think the switchover from 8V-71N's to 6V-92TA's occurred between 1982-1984.
The last 8V-71N powered Greyhound MC-9 I can recall was about four years ago (broken down at a rest stop on the PA Turnpike with the engine doors open so there was no doubt what engine was in it). The driver said it was a 1982 model when I asked. Looked like it was dragged out of mothballs and pressed into service with faded and chipped paint and lots of body dings.
RDChilds
asking for more routes isnt happening, because i know UP lost the B82 and is getting the X27 in January. But here is what i think they should get:
Local:4753-4792
4601-4722(from JG)
8340-8350
9077-9110
Express:
9281-9344
some 3800's and some 4800's from Yukon.
Retire:
The 3000's series and the 1800's series casue they allready needed to be retired.
Actually all 1983-85 (3000-Low 4000 series) is scheduled for retirement once all new buses are here and its said and done. So in actuallity when it is all said and done the lowest number RTSs will be the 4300s!
Trevor
thats cool. but what new buses are ulmer park to get and when are they expected to arrive, cause it seems that ulmer park is the last depot to get new buses
Its gonna be like that for a while because Ulmer park is not the best place to send new buses right now, if you get my drift (MAINTENANCE SUCKS, JUST LIKE GUN HILL AND THE OLD WALNUT!)
Trevor
saw Orion #607 and a New Flyer Low Floor runnig today on the b68. Did JG get the fuel tanks fixed? it's hard to tell because i saw #4350 on the B68 comning home from work and i know that bus is from Jamaica.
They cant get rid of all the borrowed buses in one mighty swoop ya know....give em a few days
There are several CNG's running on a limited basis at JG. Most of the borrowed buses are STILL there. Spotted on Mon. 12/6 were, 468(AMS), 648(CS), 3455(MV), 4130(WS), 4190(KB), 4573(JAM), 6201(CAS) and 6338(YUK). They won't be returned until those fuel tanks are completely repaired. I don't think they will take the chance.
Saw 820 tonight on the 61 at Tillary and Flatbush Ext.
They are still probably being fueled at Command. I saw both Orions and New Flyers being fueled there last week over night.
If you look at the website which lists where each RTS bus is, they listed a few 3900's at JG and they saw they are from XTN. Does XTN mean Crosstown. If JG is short buses, why not run the B61 and B43 from XTN depot and save JG hassle until the fuel tank can be repaired?
We all ready talk about this before & Im going to say this again CROSSTOWN WILL NOT OPEN FOR SERVICE & is for paint shop for MTA buses.
Millennium Man 2000
Actually, there is a study right now out to re-open Crosstown, even thoughts of making it CNG. So, Hate to burst that bubble, But It's a possibility.
Trevor
All I can say is never say never! The previous statement just makes sense in a time of crisis. If these buses are stored there just siting then why not use them while this "crisis" is going on and it just saves money!
Peace
DaShawn
I totally agree i mean this is ridiculous I willing to be that Brooklyn brings in the majority of Bus ridership in the city(or at least 2nd)and has the the most ridiculous fleet for the ta. With that other depot opening later on, opening up crosstown would be a great investment for future projects or expanding the fleet or say if the ta decides to create some other routes (Ha!)at least we won't have what happend with routs being put in different depots every second(B7, 78,68, 8 examples) At least looking into a wise investment plan would be wise for the ta. As i have said befor the crosstown can either be a depot with some routes, a depot with the the Brooklyn express routes and/or 2queens exp routes or addsupplemental service to other routes, or all together a supplemental depot where the busses are assigened to brooklyn routes to allevaite the overcrowding all the time. It is alot better than nothing at all which seems to be the ta motto(even to there workers it seems)
THe new Timetables for the DOT are now out to the Public,-----New Format
Much clearer and more detailed---better maps
Steve
Do they have route maps on them?
I still can't believe the TA eliminated the route maps on their new form of timetable! Very stupid, in my opinion.
Queens,Jamaica---Maps and schedules,better graphics and more information
Steve
are you talking about the schedules that Green, Triboro and Command have? They look great. I hope the others follow suit.
New schedules
I would like to know on how you found out about the reopening of Crosstown Bus Depot & who did you find out this information from. If this is true, when will this study be completed & when will this depot reopen & will you keep us up-to-date on the reopening of Crosstown.
I heard that Crosstown was going to stay as a painting facility & that NYCT is considerning of building a new Brooklyn Bus DEpot.
I can not give my sources, but I will keep BusTalk posted!
Trevor
When will the three New Flyer "VIKING" Over-the-Road Coaches will start arriving at Yukon Bus Depot & when will you update your bus information page.
Vikings are close by, keep a close look out as they may appear suddenly. HINT HINT!
My roster will be updated on Friday with the hottest information available!
Trevor
Please stop the To:________ type text
Thank you
Kill it!
Its gonna happen, no one can stop anyone from doing that. Even if we try so let it go!
Trevor
Just like the bad grammar and horrid spelling, huh?
-Hank
But are you surprised at the spelling and grammar deficiencies? I'm not. There aren't too many scholars posting here, and it's only going to get worse.
So what are you trying to say we are all stupid????? You can go somewhere!!!!
Not stoopid, just illiterate a-holes with access to $500 computers. But good a-holes none the less! And I say give us more of your lousy spellin and grammer, it's verry entirtaining you know.
"And I say give us more of your lousy spellin and grammer, it's verry entirtaining you know."
The correct way to say that: And I say give us more of your lousy spelling and grammar it's very entertaining you know.
"'And I say give us more of your lousy spellin and grammer, it's verry entirtaining you know.'
The correct way to say that: And I say give us more of your lousy spelling and grammar it's very entertaining you know."
NO NO NO, the correct way REALLY is: I say give us more of your lousy spelling and grammar, it's very entertaining you know.
Just a heads up (before mine gets bitten off) I'm NOT the Phantom.
-Hank
its not i say, its i said give us more of your lousy spelling and grammar it"s very entertaining. now enough foolishness get back to the topic which is buses not the educational background of any who post here.
HANK and all you other Jabronies,
KNOW YOUR ROLES AND SHUT YOUR MOUTHS!!!
THE PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO SAY WHATEVER THEY PLEASE!! AND JUST BECAUSE SOME OF US ARE NOT AS "SMART AND INTELLIGENT" AS YOU ARE DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU ( YOU RUDI~POO CANDY A**) CAN RAG ON THE PEOPLE ON BUSTALK!! ( WHICH YOU DO A LOT!)
DO YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE BETTER THAN THE REST OF US...ESPECIALLY THE GREAT ONE? WELL, FRANKLY IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!!!
AND IF YOUR NOT DOWN WITH THAT, THEN I GOT TWO WORDS FOR YOU.....
SUCK IT!!!!!!
MOREOVER, HANK ----- FRANKLY SPEAKING I THINK YOU NEED A PIECE OF PU~TANG PIE!!!
First off dooshboy, it Jabonies. It's not a matter of intelligence, although I don't see a Pulitzer Prize in YOUR future, it's a matter of education, or in the many cases here - lack of education. So back to your apartment in the projects. We just have reached our absolute limit with the terrible abuse of the english language. You actually can't understand what some here are trying to get across, not to mention the repetitive "when is such-and-such equipment arriving" posts.
Buon Natale, figli di animali.
Listen GIVE IT UP, LET IT GO, GET A LIFE, BT is not for discussing someones grammar nor spelling, LET IT GO! We are here for transit posting, NONE OTHER! THIS BULL-MANUER (A FRIG IT IF I SPELLED IT WRONG), BUT EVERYONE NEEDS TO GROW UP HERE, HANK: QUIT BREAKING ON PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THEIR GRAMMAR OR SPELLING, NO ONE IS PERFECT and THE LAST TIME I CHECKED, YOUR ROOM WASN'T ALL THAT UP TO PAR FROM A PICTURE THAT I SAW! BAM!
EVERYONE ELSE: BACK TO BUS TALK PLEASE.
Peace and Blessings
Regards,
Trevor Logan aka LORD MTA
TransiTALK Founder and Co-Webmaster
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk?
I wdidn't say anything about his grammer or spelling, I was bothered by his attitude and the 'know your role' garbage. You know as well as I do that our webmaster has a great dislike for foul language on his boards, and has in the past deleted threads as such.
As to the subject of my bedroom, that photo (and story) are 6 years old. Eventually, I'll post a photo of it's current condition, (considerably improved, especially since my mother has threatened to kick me out if it appeared in that condition again :) and, for a point of comparison the room of a freind's 34-y-o sister-in-law, whose name will not be mention lest I get into some serious legal problems.
I haven't said a THING about spelling and grammer since the last long thread with my name in the subject line that wasn't in jest. In fact, my response to 'The Rock' didn't even HAVE the words spelling or grammer in it. It mentioned only the reasons not to post 'to:' and 'from:' and the foul language used.
Oh, and just for the next time, no offense intended, it's manure. :)
-Hank
ALSO, Phantom, You Just Played Yourself, 'Cause what do you mean by that Porjects comment, I used to live and there and now I'm a successfull person with a great paying job and one very popular web site. So Screw that D#*! Project comment. DO NOT PLAY YOURSELF!
Back to Buses
Trevor
No you played yourself. You think you are the "Lord" (give me a break). Also, the last time i visited your website there was about 4 other people involved. I think they are the ones making it popular. You have your head stuck up your ass. Besides half the time you update here about NYC Transit your info is wrong. And you call yourself the "Lord".
I usually try to steer clear of these fights, but I can't help but to be offended by your "projects" comment. I never lived in the projects, but grew up some poor Bronx neighborhoods, however I concentrated on my studies and now I have a great job and I live in Bethesda, MD which is a well-to-do area. I wish society would realize that the impovershed folks in the inner city are just as good as the next person regardless of their education level and income.
This stuff as well as the condescending attitudes needs to stop.
Wayne
Ring Ring Ring ... CRANK is calling again, no need to pick it up.
WILL EVERYBODY RELAX AND CHILL THIS NON-SENSE OUT!!!!WE ARE ALL ADULTS[I THINK]SO STICK WITH BUSS TOPICS.DON'T MAKE THIS INTO A PERSONAL DIS-RESPECT FORUM PEOPLE.LOVE EACH OTHER .RESPECT EACH OTHER.GOD-WILL BLESS YOU FOR IT.
I realize that there are a few children on this Page,,,I terminated a One List because of a few pre teen and early teeenager imaturities.
There was more concern of why I specified an age of people postings,,over the concern of transportation issues.
Can we please get back to Transit issues,,and for the young kids out there ,Hank being an example,,the more you address them,,the more they will show certain personality (negetive) issues.
I have tried to add things to this Bus Talk to make things interesting for you people
Agendas---from Official Sources
Rosters--all from OFficial Sources
Destination Sign Readings
Let us try to enjoy and learn from each other's knowledge and experiences
..
Steve
I am completely sick of your condescension towards those younger than you. You claim that "terminated a One List because of a few pre teen and early teeenager imaturities," and that this was because people were more concerned with the age limit. WHAT KIND OF IDIOT sets up an age 17 limit on a bus group? I never knew that busses were adult issues. I was person to start a complaint against your policy, and I am neither a "pre teen" nor "early teeenager." Even though you consider me a menace for pointing out your fault in placing an age on the list that is only placed on those created to discuss pornography, you still managed to approve my membership to the new eGroups list, as if moving the board really solves your deficiencies. Consider that membership withdrawn, I do not wish to participate in any discussion with an ageist, too narrow minded to accept that the "few children" can engage in worthy discourse.
You may consider people like Hank Eisenstein (who happens to be an adult) to be self-righteous and condescending, but it's people like YOU, lacking respect for other members of society, that should reexamine their ways.
HEY HANK!!!!!! SCREW YOU. YOU STARTED SHIT IN SUBTALK AND NOW BRING IT HERE. WHY CAN'T YOU TAKE A HINT AND GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE SO EVERYONE ELSE CAN ENJOY BUSTALK. HEY HANK ANY MISSPELLINGS YET???????? I'M TRYING EXTRA HARD NOT TO BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE TO POINT THEM OUT. AS FOR EVERYONE ELSE, IGNORE THE ASSHOLES. THEY WILL GO AWAY.
BTW I EXPECT FOR ME AND MANY OTHERS HERE TO GET BLASTED FOR I POST ON WEBTV
Please stop telling us how to post on a message board. Thanks, you do this everytime and maybe it just doesn't work...
Peace Out
-Clayton
Cough Cough *ENY* Cough Cough, lol
Peace Out
-Clayton
When will the new Breda buses start arriving & what depot will they be assigned to.
I do have information, but since you directed that to someone else in particular, I will not answer it.
You get what ya pay for!
Well guess what, your about to become very rich, in response to Tevi!
Jerry and everyone, the Breda will begin arrivin the the city in the year 2001, a pilot bus will probably show up by this summer. Some of the Breda will be assigned to Hudson while others a scattered.
75 are to come.
Hope this has helped.
Trevor
What are they like? Are they the articulated buses, low floor or both??
The Breda rail car project in Boston is not going well from what I have heard.
These are low floor 40's NOT artics!
No one knows these will be the first of their kind in America!
Trevor
I saw 3924 today on the Q46 with a new paintjob and QV decals. This bus I beleive was originally gonna get scrapped. Are any other 3900s gonna "come back from the dead?"
Q46#8357Gary
3924 and a whole slew of other 1985 RTS's were sent to Crosstown storage yard from Jamaica Depot when the 5100's were delivered earlier this year. They (the '85's) were overhauled and painted and have been sitting in XT for literally months now. They should have gone to JG, but it'll be just as good to see them remain in Queens.
The 3900s were better off at CS rather than these Orions. Has anybody rode on 258? All this bus needs are roaches, this bus was so messy. She had garbage all over the place- scratchitti all over the windows- front and back graffiti all over the seats and the exterior was very dirty. And on tiop of that, I had to wait 20 minutes for it.
578 has very dirty wheels and 270 made garbage truck noises. From now on, I'm gonna call this depot "Stinky Stengel" cause these buses look like bombs hit them.
MM2000
I can definately agree to that. Rode on a few Stengal Orions yesterday. I boarded the Q13 eastbound bus # 284 with schedules all over the seats, as well as some bit of potato chips.
Got off at Francis Lewis and waited for a Flushing bound Q12 or Q13 for about 20 minutes (this was around 8:15pm) before giving up and getting a Q12 heading eastbound to the Little Neck, where I caught the N21 back to Nassau county.
Also the bus # are not on the inside of the bus anymore at Stengal, at least of the older Orions. And the backside of alot of the older Orions Stengal has are full of soot, and the buses sound disgusting.
Also been seeing alot of breakdowns too with the buses lately.
The new 6000 Orions though are in better shape, but the old ones are so depressing to ride, because they have such a dirty appearance. Didn't Stengal used to be the best bus depot? What happened?
Rode this bus yesterday on the Q66 and she sounded like a hybrid MTA 500 bus. Was there any change in the engine cause she didn't sound like the other 700s?
Q66#703Gary
these buses and reconditioned 4000s have all been removed from service on staten island. mci and orion are the only coaches in service. i do not know what they are doing with 4873-4888. we still await 21 mci buses and new flyer suburban demos.
Does anyone remember old bus rosters from the ta/oa depots?
I'll start by giving the flatbush depot roster from late 1983.
69flex 4202
72gm 6000-6099
81rts 1201-1239
1380-1429
83rts 3023-3067
that's as far back as i can go.can anyone recall depot rosters from
the 70's or 60's?
ANDY/ULMER PARK
When the first order of new looks came to the TA, Flatbush initially got them all - 1-190. I forget whether Flatbush kept some of the Macks in the 5200-5500 series at that time, but within a few years the Macks were replaced by GMC's in the 4000-4499 series. When Queens got the 2000 series new looks, many of the 7000 GM old-looks went to Flatbush. When the TA got the first new-look Flxibles, they all initially went to Flatbush (5001-5165). Don't remember much after that, other than Flatubush got 40 of the first air-conditioned buses (8081-8120, batwings).
As far as I can remember, the 4400-4499s supplemented the New Looks on B-41, B-44 and B-46 after the replacement of the Mack C-50s.
That would be correct in the mid 1960's.later on,around 1970,gm's
7000's would bbe found there.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
I can remember MABSTOA Bronx depots well.
Kingsbridge
GM T6H-5309/10A 4813-4832, 4860-4919, 4500-4505
GM TDH-5303 Various low 5200's, 6401-6514, 8301-8371
Flxible 53102-6-1 7833-7852
Flxible 53102-6-1 9285-9299
Grumman 870 721-770, 870-890, PA140-PA159
RTS II-04 2253-2262, 2281-2300, PA2443-PA2528
Coliseum
GM T6H-5309A 4833-4859
GM TDH-5303 Various 5200-5400, 6580-6607, 6655-6700, Various 6700's
Flxibles 4664-4720
Flxible 53102-6-1 7853-7877
Flxible 53102-8-1 9160-9164
Flxible 53102-6-1 9165-9184
Grumman 870 771-809, 891-910, PA160-PA175
RTS II-04 2263-2280, PA2529-PA2579
West Farms
GM TDH-5303 Various 5300, 6515-6579, 6879-6900
Flxible 4600-4663
Flxible 53102-6-1 7878-7917
Flxible 53102-6-1 9185-9204
West Farms did not receive any Grumman 870 or RTS.
I know partial rosters from other OA and most TA depots.
Wayne
That was great,wayne!!Gimme all you got.I'm putting together a scrap
book on all the old depots and these rosters will be very helpfull.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
Amsterdam
GM TDH-5303 low 6600's, 8372-low 8400's
Flxible 53102-6-1 7918-7937
Flxible 53102-6-1 9300-9309
Grumman 870 Approx 700-720, 856-869, PA130-PA139
RTS II-04 2244-2252, PA2420-PA2442
Wayne
Wayne: It this is 1983 bus roster? Do you have old 100st Depot or 54st Depot old rosters?
Millennium Man 2000
How about rosters from the NYCTA, well the 50s. when there was such a diverse amount of equipment, Macks, Twin Coaches, Whites, so many models of old look GMCs. Now that would be historical
That would be very interesting. By the way, when did the Twin Coaches run in Brooklyn, and on which routes, if anyone remembers? I saw a photo in a book of a Twin Coach running on the B-5 line with the destination sign saying "Broadway". Did the B-5 go from Cropsey Ave. to Broadway at one time? Was the B-7 only a later addition?
The Twin Coaches ran out of Ulmer Park. I remember them on the B-4, 5,6,8,9,34,37,11, B,3. I think they also ran out of Flatbush before the 51 Macks came in. Maybe the 2 or 7. They also ran occassionally on the 49 Ocean Ave, but again mostly out of Ulmer Park until 1956. I think they were ran the shortest amount of time of any bus that the TA had.
It pretty much covers the period between 1976 to the early 1980's. I'm don't have exact figures because I'm did most of it from memory. I know the MABSTOA (especially Bronx) bus info. well because I grew up in the Bronx and I've ridden buses to school every year after the 3rd grade.
In 1983 100 Street had just received their 1983 GM RTS. These were the first ADB's to be assigned to 100 Street. In the months leading up to the delivery of the 1983 buses 100 Street had received a few 1982 RTS from 126th Street and Hudson. I'm guessing this was done to get the 100 Street B/O familiar with the RTS.
Before the RTS arrived 100 Street had most of the MABSTOA 1977 New Look Flxibles and a few of those that were Staten Island Expresses. The rest of them were at West Farms.
100 Street (early 1980's)
GM TDH-5303 8451-8512 (Approx)
Flxible 53102-6-1 9230-9309, 9125-9144 (Approx)
Flxible 53102-6-1 7760-7785 (Approx)
Wayne
100 Street
Wayne: Early 1983 they have RTS #2694, #2695, & #2696 before RTS #3200s delivery to 100st Depot. I don't remember when the MTA put up the logo Depot. Also they have 6900s express buses too & 8600s GM Batwing.
Peace Out
David Meaney
I believe the depot logos first made their appearance in 1984. The 1984 GM-RTS fleet were the first to receive them, if I recall correctly. I remember Jamaica's blue and red "JA" logo on their 3500 and 3600 series buses. It was part of the Quality Control Program, where Level I QC had just the logo, and Level II QC had the logo and the Quality Control banner over it.
Here is the roster for 54th Street Depot and 132nd St. Depot
Time period is 1970
54 St. Depot
5246-5352 TDH 5303
5523-5525 TDH 5303
6401-6403 TDH 5303
6736-6777 TDH 5303
8546-8620 TDH 5303
assigned to the following routes:
6 Broadway
13 8th Street Crosstown
15 Jackson Heights
15 23rd Street crosstown
16 Elmhurst Crosstown
16 34th Street Crosstown
20 57th Street crosstown
21 Houston Street and Ave. C
103 59th street Crosstown
106 42nd Street Crosstown
132nd Street Depot
3301-3351 TDH 5303
3462-3472 TDH 5303
5516-5522 TDH 5303
6642-6652 TDH 5303
6796-6830 TDH 5303
8621-8695 TDH 5303
assigned to the following routes:
3 Fifth and Convent/St. Nicholas
4 Fifth & Fort Washington Avenues
5 Fifth Avenue & Riverside Drive
11 Ninth and Amsterdam Avenues
More to follow . . .
I want to know if (1972) GMC #6901-#6956 from renumber to #5001-#5056 in 1984 rebuild GM-Blitz? I have a pictures with my father on the bus GM-Blitz #5002 in 1985 after rebuilt.
Peace Out
David Meaney
i'm pretty sure those blitz remans were from the early 8000 series
(old bat-wings).whenever the ta rebuilds and renumbers a bus,you can
tell the original number by looking at the licsence plate(they use
the same one and the original bus # is emmbedded on it).
ANDY/ULMER PARK
The 6900 series were GM T6H-5309/10A's. If any were Bl;itzed they would've been numbered in the 5300-5500 series. The Blitz 5000 series were originally the 8000 series (8000-8202, 8301-8780). I believe they were 5000-5022.
THANKS TO WAYNE,J.L.,AND EVERYONE ELSE FOR YOUR OA ROSTERS.
anyone else out there; i'm looking for old rosters for flatbush,
ulmer park,eny,fresh pond,5 av,edgewater,castleton,flushing,jamaca,
xtown.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
Yes, how far back to you go???
i like to go back to the 60,s & 70,s with those ta rosters.
ANDY/UP
I have been taking Fresh Pond rosters since 1972 but unfortunately no longer have 1972-1980 though I do remember most of the regulars. I can provide FP info. There was so much over the years.
650-705 1960 GMC TDH 5301 (with a few missing)
1100-1130 1961 GMC TDH 5301
3660-3699 1963 GMC TDH 5303
4100-4152 1969 Flx 111cc-D51
8001-8040 1967 GMC TDH 5305A
Just to name a few!
You know the signs that say "^Route Number Above
Number for TA Control Use ->"
Are they there beacuse people confused the two numbers together or what? It seams pretty obvious to me which ones which.
Gents,
if you look at the 1993 issue of DORLING KINDERSLEY "Eyewitness Travel Guide: New York" on page 372 "survival guide to New York-
getting around New York"...............
under the Bus heading is shown bus fleet No. 8081
the guide book points to the lower number in the windscreen..
oops windshield! and says in the text it is the ROUTE NUMBER!
.
Now imagine how many copies of this book have been sold in various languages worldwide! lol lol.
I think the reason for this is that the photo shows the bus with no
display in the destination box perhaps due to the bus being switched off whilst the photo work was done!.
So is this bus still in use?? if so what Division and garage??
Regards
Rob :^)
London UK
an Englishman in New York, with his D K Travel guide lol lol...
NYCTA started applying that decal in the mid 1980's. I think it was necessary on MABSTOA buses because until this point MABSTOA bus operators routinely used the run number box to display the route number.
Wayne
I always thought the reason for the little sticker being put up in the mid 80's was because more and more RTS's started filling the streets and the run number box of the RTS's was much more larger and visible then the older new look boxes which by the way are very much like the Orion boxes.
Fernando,
I was thinking that you may be correct, but it would've been a delayed action on the NYCTA's part since the Grumman Flxible 870's also had the same large run number box. I just remember that MABSTOA buses had been using it to display the route number until those decals were applied.
Wayne
Early today i was going to Big-Kmart at Bay Plaza & i pass the Gun Hill Depot & i saw TMC-RTS #4821 line up with other buses. It 4800s assignment to Gun Hill Depot?? Thoses bus came from 126st Depot. Any body know about this?
Millennium Man 2000
126th Street does not have anymore 4800 series anymore, the unit you aer talking about came from Westside. When Westside opened those units got transfered. Those buses are up at gunhill for repair not for service. There is a mini-base shop "Annex" at Gunhill Depot.
Peace
DaShawn
I don't think that bus is waiting for repair & it was standing in front of Gun Hill Depot. That mean those bus was assignment from other depot. There was about 4 buses standing in front of depot. If the bus need repair than they can't be standing in front of depot & must be inside not outside. So let wait & see what happen next. The bus is from 126st Depot not West Side Depot. Here is the list who have 4800s buses, Manhattanville 4800-4812, West Side 4827-4853, 126st 4813-4826, Jackie Gleason 4854-4855, 4857-4864, 4866-4872, 4889-4891, Ulmer Park 4865, & Yukon 4873-4888, 4892-4899. Some of them are scarp or repair, ENY Shop 4888, Atlantic Diesel 4880, & Gershow Scarp Yard 4856. That 97 buses are in service, 2 are in shop & one is scarp.
Millennium Man 2000
PS I saw some of 4300s got new paint scheme with no depot logo
Right now 4300 is out of Jackie Gleason. It is one of the buses that was lent to JG from I think 126's Depot. It is going bak as soon as the CNG fueling station is back online.
PS. Most of the SI Orian went back to there dopot over the last few days. I hate to see them go. They are the best Orian that I have drivin since I we got from the other depot in the system.
Thanks for the information, but there are no 48xx series left at 126th street, they were transferred when the 5000 series came in. 1999 RTS's of course. My brother in law works for Gun Hill and sometimes they put those buses out front with the others that are going in to service like the others but they don't they wait there for a time and they get picked to up to go to their respective depots or next assignment which could be anywhere since JG needs buses.
Peace
DaShawn
If they stopped getting rid of the 3000 series for the time being, then JG wouldn't be so short on buses. I'd really like to see 5075-5124 go to Pier. Once the 4100s make their departure, then they'd be extremely short. If I had another choice, they should go to MHV. They could replace the 3400s. WS is covered if they're getting artics. They're gonna get 8200s from Pier to back them up and they're a good bunch of buses.
MM2000
5075-5124 ARE going to hudson!
And that is a great thing!!!!!
Peace
DaShawn
Not exactly saw 4818 tonight on the m15 at 52nd and 1st at 10:50pm
126th Street does have 4800's including the one in question--4821. They have 4813-4826 in service there. You are correct that bus is in for repair/overhaul at the Gun Hill annex.
Thanks!
A message from Dashawn's Source!
Trevor
Thanks, I just have not seen those units in such a long time at 126th street. I ride there buses everyday since I work on the M31/M57 line at always ride the M15 and M116 lines as well.
Peace
DaShawn
When they build (IF), and the proposed plan is to build a subway down avenue B, will the M9 go to Ave. C or Ave. A?
You are too premature for this info,,contact me in about the summer for this info ,,,accurate info only
STEVE
I would like to know on what is going to happen with the bus schedule pick on January 16, 2000 in regards to:
1)Bus route moves from one depot to another or splits between two depots.
2)Bus moves from one depot to another, for example: the 1997 Articulated buses going from Gun Hill to West Side.
3)And other changes.
I don't know much about route changes other than M23 goes to WS and M34 goes to HUD. 7535-7559 WS to HUD, HUD's 82xx's to WS. 1000-1109 GH and KB to WS. 5075-5124 GH to Manhattan Division possibly WS. M79 to be all artic by January and M86 to be all artic by Spring. Anything else I would be pleased to know. Thanks, I hope this helps.
Peace Out
-Clayton
Check my Bus Route Destination signs for the m9 M10 and M20,M72 ,,this will give you the Info you need,,,
Also check the Agendas for Oct and Nov 1999 for these routes
Steve
"5075-5124 GH to Manhattan Division possibly WS."
Ha ha NOPE! 5075-5124 to HUD. I know this for a fact.
how about sending the 7500's to ulmer park they have 7511-7534
It probably costs less to send them to Hudson, less of a drive.
Typical MTA style, cheapos!
Peace Out
-Clayton
What is a bus schedule pick? I have never heard of it (I don't know a lot on buses).
A Bus Pick is when the Bus Drivers get to Pick What Route,Tour, and Days off they want to work.
yes the stupid school buses and the bus drivers forced to wear american flags on thier uniforms FOOTHILL TRANSIT WHICH SAYS THAT THEY ARE THE MOST OUTSTANDING BUS TRANSIT SYSTEM IN THE USA????
what a joke that is ever waited for a foothill bus ???
AND THE WAYU THEY TREAT THIER DRIVERS IS A SHAME !!!
You think it's bad forcing people to wear American flags on their uniforms?
Oh yes, Foothill Transit also sucks because they don't have the BUSFAN WINDOWS!!!
looks like cheap security guards to me and i never saw flags on even geryhound right ?????
Whaddya expect when you have nothing but $7.00 an hour bus drivers?
Of course, it is run by Laidlaw!!
totally agree i tried to work for them i did work when i lived in atlanta for the MAYFLOWER CONTRACT SERVICES knew how laidlaw
operates!!! BUT IT WAS LIKE THAT FOOTHILL TRANSIT THE WORST BUS
COMPANY TRANSIT COMPANY IN AMERICA it was like that before laidlaw!!
thank you i agree with you 1000% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Earlier in the year, the L.F.Nova, #999, was assigned to one route in Brooklyn, the B15. Naturally the day I go to shoot it, it was out of service.
Later it was assigned to Manhattan. However, everyone is seeing 995, like 999 doesn't exist. Last week I saw 999 as I was on the D train stepping off the Manhattan bridge just near Chinatown. The # was quite prominent on the roof. So, we then have 2 Nove L.F.s'?
Joe C
999 was transformed into 995. The number 999 is still on the roof.
It's operating out of Hudson Pier. However, I haven't seen her in a month. Anybody here know her whereabouts?
Q32#995Gary
I saw her about a week and a half ago on the M9, a day before that on the M22.
Has anyone ridden it? How do you like it and how does it compare to they flyer low floor?
I haven't ridden the NewFlyer LF40 yer, but 995 is purtie good.
New Flyer designates their buses with the propulsion first (D or C for Diesel or CNG) length next (35/40/45/60) and then an 'LF' if it's a low floor. Based upon this terminology, we can guess that the D45S are Diesel, 45', Suburban.
RIOC has D40LFs (or are they CNGs? been a while since I was out there) and I've never ridden an LF bus. Every time I take my lunch break, I see one on 5th Ave. I wish one would be 'going my way' when I have a chance to ride it.
-Hank
The RIOC LF is the only New Flyer LF that I've ridden, I've seen the ones running out from Gleason many times, but I never have the time to chase after them. Also, New Flyer has an E60, Trolleybus. I do not know if they have any electric trolley busses of other lengths.
I've ridden 995 (with Alan driving) many months back, and was recently on a JG New Flyer low floor (831, I believe). From a passenger's standpoint, both models ride quite nicely. The big difference I noticed was the step on the New Flyers towards the rear, while the Nova floor has no step. In my opeinion, the TA (and many transit agencies in the US)are missing the boat by not ordering more low floor buses. Given the number of elderly riders and others who find low floor a distinct benefit, ALL new buses should be ordered with low floors.
"JG New Flyer low floor (831, I believe)."
I saw that bus today at city hall.
"ALL new buses should be ordered with low floors"
Except the express busses, I just love those MCIs!
The MTA has taken a step up, higher than where the privates once where and the privates have stepped down, to even lower than where the TA was. This is in reference to the express service.
I agree! But the thing with low floor buses is that there are space constrants and for a system like ours you can't just buy a fleet low floor buses and think that it's ok! Just imagine low floors on the X1 or on a majority of the crosstown buses here in Manhattan. I like the way the TA is handling the situation. Placing the low floor units in the appropriate routes and areas. I'm wondering at the same time, why the NYDOT is getting "No Frills" with their new fleet of buses. Are they like strapped for cash?
Peace
DaShawn
Space constraints? If you're talking about artics, then there are low floor artics! If you're talking about something else, then please tell.
I suspect DaShawn is referring to the fact that low-floor buses hold and seat fewer passengers than standard buses. In theory, if you replace your standard fleet with all low-floor buses, you have to add some buses to have the same number of seats per hour. As a bus fan, I like a varied fleet (i.e., low floor and standard, mixed). But after being in a few European cities with mostly low floor buses (Berlin and Hamburg, Germany) and in Phoenix, Arizona, which has a very large low floor fleet, I can see how much easier it is for many passengers to get on and off low floor versus standard buses. And I agree that the MCI's are much more suitable for express routes than low floor buses would be.
Thanks Sid! That is how I feel as well, I love a mixed fleet also. I like low-floor buses also for the fact that they are much more efficent as far as loading and unloading passengers and the use of ramps instead of wheelchair lifts. The seat and overall passenger capacity is my only concern.
Peace
DaShawn
This may seem like a stupid question, but why aren't low-floor busses designed so that they can hold as many passengers as a standard? It is it due to design constraints or how much weight the but can support?
I can't explain why they're not DESIGNED to hold as many passengers as standard-floor buses, but I can explain why they DON'T:
North American low-floor models (at least those NYCT has tested) feature standard-size tires, while European low-floor buses have low-profile tires. Accommodating the standard-size tires requires standard-size wheel wells. On a regular bus, seats can go over the wheel wells; on a low-floor bus, they can't because the top of the wheel well sits way too high for a seat to go on top. Additionally, on some of the low-floor models (New Flyer's D40LF/C40LF comes to mind), the bus is only low-floor in the front. There's a step to reach the (higher) rear section, and, of course, it would be unsafe for anyone to stand on or near that step.
David
[This may seem like a stupid question, but why aren't low-floor busses designed so that they can hold as many passengers as a standard? It is it due to design constraints or how much weight the but can support?]
Its because the wheel wells protrued into the pass area taking away space for seats.and some models have steps leading up to the rear seats also.
I am saddened to continue to report that TA still has no plans of ordering Novabus LFs. I have not been on a New Flyer yet but judging on the basis of driving their artic (yes, I know, "apples and oranges"), it's probably a nice bus to drive and unpleasant to maintain.
The local so called tranist agency here in Ft Myers Fl has
a group of the new flyers low floors.(they think one bus a
hour is sufficent except for the one route they got state
funding to run every 20 min. seven days a week 5am to
10pm) Talking to
one driver i was told that the new flyer is the best bus
that is made today.After questioning i found out that this
driver went from driving a school bus to driving a new
flyer and never drove anything else. Never heard of
RTS,Flxible,Gillig,etc.So thats the feeling at Lee
Tran.I know they had ac problems with them in the
first month of service everyone.
I saw her two days ago on the M21 in the afternoon.
There is only one Novabus LF #995. Couple months ago i was at south ferry & i saw LF #995 coming to last stop. I took four pictures & what i saw is on top of Novabus & saw #999. Now i haven't seen it but i heard Novabus LF #995 heading to Bronx Division & i don't know which depot LF #995 heading to.
Peace Out
David Meaney
Nova LFS 995 (Ex-999) rides like a dream and sounds beautiful, if you want to see her stay in Manhattan at 14th Stret and Below as thats where it is seen the most on the M14, M21, M9 and even the M6 routes most of the time, Other spot it may appear is on the Q32 and the M23!
The next stop for the LFS is the Bronx Division at either Mother Clara Hale or Kingsbridge! I was the one that spotted her in the Bronx on the Bx36!
Trevor
My experience with these Novas has been good, but only in Cleveland.
The RTA runs only 15 of them, on one line only, Euclid Ave. These buses are peppy!! Drivers handle them like sports cars, zipping right along.
The biggest complain seems to be unanimous: lack of room and seating.
Joe C
I saw 1826 going to X90 first run, its supposed to be retired. All photographers be on the lookout!
Peace Out
-Clayton
Saw CtC Bus 674 on the Q18 today with a new look. 414 on Q104 with paint in the front. 307 on Q32 with its number written in white on back left window.
MM2000
And you better hurry, because the MCI's are almost all in at Yukon. This of course marks the end of the road for QV, JAM, JG and UP's 1982 and possibly their 1983-85 converts as well.
Saw this bus yesterday in Flushing with a Pride of the Fleet sticker.
Mostly TMC, MCI'S and Orions have this sticker- not GMC's. Also add 471 to the active roster. Here is a list of GMC'S to be on the look out for:
43 48 51-53 209 216 225 234 240-241 245-246 250-258 270-272 274
This is what's left operating as of right now cause I saw most of these last night. GET YOUR PICS NOW!!!
MM2000
Trolleybus, I saw on the roster that 1771 is at UP. Do you have an email address so I can mail u the proof? Thanks!
AND IF ANYBODY SAYS THE STOP THE TO AND FROM ROODY POO CANDY ASS JUNK, ALL I GOT TO SAY TO YOU IS TO KNOW YOUR ROLE AND SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!!! I GOT TO FIND OUT SOME INFO ABOUT THE GREAT ONE AT YUKON!
IF YOU SMELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL WHAT THE ROCK
IS COOKING?!
Kindly keep the WWF garbage out of here. Fact is, it's a public board. If you want to ask an individual a question, then send them an email. If their email isn't posted, they obviously don't want to be bothered with questions outside of the board. Anything posted on the board is fare (sic) game for anyone to read and answer. Posting all this 'to:' and 'from:' crap just makes the subject lines exceedingly long and useless, as the real information on what the post is about slips off some peoples screens. It also leads, when someone comes up with an answer that the 'to' poster didn't like, to messages such as "I wasn't talking to you!" and is gennereally followed by "This is a public board, so deal with it [insert colorful adjective here]"
Additionally, the one thing that is absolutely NOT tolerated around here, it's foul language, and that will result in (as it has in the past) your posts being deleted, and access to the board from ANYONE who uses the same ISP as you do being denied access to post. Right WebTV-ers?
-Hank
well the bus lays under yukon depot and has for a few months. it rests with 1722 1749 and 3840 but since you do not believe my eyes there is no way i can prove it. take s79 to depot go walk on forest hill road and peek underneath and you will see.
I may have missed this on earlier posts, but I wonder what the reason is for sending brand-new artics (5250 and up) to the Bronx and having the Bronx send the slightly older ones (1000-1109) to Westside. Wouldn't it have made more sense (and cost less money) to send 5250 and up directly to Westside and leave 1000-1109 where they were?
To answer that question, WS does not deserve the new buses because they are putting them where they are NOT NEEDED!. The artics really need to go on the M15, M14s, M102 and even the M16/M34 at times. So i think WS got what they deserved!
Trevor
The artics will be on the M15 eventually as 126th Street is scheduled to receive 1095-1109, while WS gets 1000-1094 for the M42, M1634, M23, M14 and the M102. So those routes you mentioned ARE going to be artic.
Where the hell you get that information from??? Also your post doens't make any sense to me. Don't forget West Side don't have M14 & they going to give M34 to Hudson Depot & they get M23. By the way i never heard 126st Depot going to receice #1095-#1109 because 126st Depot doesn't have the Articlated Lift. So you sound like you making up your story. Articlated buses going for M42, M79, M86, M102,& maybe M23.
I don't make up stories "Shifty". After I put the post up I realized that I was incorrect about the WS routes going artic. The correct lines are the M79, M86, M42 and M23. Also #'s 1095-1109 are slated to go to 126th Street Depot for M15 service. The rest of the New Flyer artic delivery will be as follows:
5250-5286 (37) to GH *5254 is on loan to KB
5287-5319 (33) to KB
5320-5402 (83) to GH
5403-5509 (107) to KB
While these deliveries are taking place, 1000-1094 will go to WS, while 1095-1109 go to 126. Also, 5075-5124 (the RTS's with the ZF transmissions) will go to HUD. I am not sure about the other RTS moves from the Bronx. So, "Shifty" there's your story...DON'T EVER ACCUSE ME OF MAKING UP ANYTHING AGAIN. I would never do that to anyone, and I don't expect it done to me! I do make mistakes and this was just one of those cases.
AMEN!!!!! I got you on that one Q5AHuxley! I am glad that someone at the TA has noticed that 126th Street needs those buses desperately on the M15 and I like the idea of having those RTS's at Hudson. I also don't like that idea of telling someone that they are making the story up! Get REAL!!! Respect other peoples ideas and if you disagree do so in a respectable manor SHIFTY!!!!
PEACE!
DaShawn!
Thanks for the kind words DaShawn. It's been a rough day in "posting land" for me.
Where the hell you get that information from??? Also your post doens't make any sense to me. Don't forget West Side don't have M14 & they going to give M34 to Hudson Depot & West Side get M23. By the way i never heard 126st Depot going to receice #1095-#1109 because 126st Depot doesn't have the Articlated Lift & West Side have 8 Articlated Lift. So you sound like you making up your story buddy. Articlated buses going for M42, M79, M86, M102,& maybe M23.
Hey "Shifty" learn how not to send duplicate posts, too. You're taking up valuable space!
Hey buddy i think you know my father is a B/O at West Side Depot & boy you nut!!!!! but i agree with you shifter. So Busbuffs fan you should wait & see what happen next SO CHILL OUT.
Peace Out
David Meaney
Boy you guys are making this really hard. Once again, if I make references to the Department of Buses in ENY, you could pretty much take it to the bank! Why all this abuse? Are you all pissed off because you didn't hear it first? I was good enough to post the artic assignment, and the subsequent moves that will take place. I would appreciate it if someone from buses would let me know what is going on. And by the way, since when does anything the TA does make sense? You guys need to get a grip! Peace to DaShawn and MM2000.
Oh and 1015, 1023 and 1037 went to WS this week. If anyone wants to dispute that call WS maintenance yourselves, otherwise drop dead!
I wonder what up with you people. Because i think you people are a bunch of idiot that know any thing about buses. I can get a information about what buses are going to diffirent depot & my job is a shifter to park a buses inside the depot after B/O finish the shift & sometime i assignment some of buses to diffirent depot or take them to ENY Shop. I see some of people who doens't work for MTA & some of them are B/O in this bus talk. So don't be a Die Hard Bus Fan & don't go crazy. I never trust you people in this bus talk because some of you are a bunch of liar & start bullshit about which buses should go to. What i know Flatbush Depot will not get Articlated buses & MTA don't trust Flatbush Depot because of unsafe. Look like Flatbush Depot won't get Articlated buses & next 140 buses might go to new 100st Depot when they open in late 2001 or early 2002. That all i know & have a nice day. Grow Up & don't be a idiot.
This website is not for idiots!I'm a shifter at ulmer park and i also
take an intrest in these subjects.sometimes i can answer a question
for someone and sometimes someone can answer a question for me.
what's wrong with that?leave the bus buffs alone and don't call
them idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANDY/ULMER PARK
LEARN HOW TO SPELL ASSHOLE. HOW DID YOU PASS THE FUCKIN TEST WITH THAT GRAMMAR
PS
I AM NOT HANK
And how do you keep your job, talking like this?
Let's keep things civil, shall we?
David
{LEARN HOW TO SPELL ASSHOLE. HOW DID YOU PASS THE F---IN TEST WITH THAT GRAMMAR} (dashes mine -- David)
Here we go again!!!
Peace Out
David Meaney
BUS BUFFS ARE NOT IDIOTS. We are some of if not the best people around, AT LEAST WERE NOT JACKA$$ES THAT POST "BUS BUFFS ARE IDIOTS," YOU'D HAVE TO BE A IDIOT TO EVEN WASTE YOUR TIME IN POSTING SOMETHING LIKE THAT! THEN YOU WANT TO CALL PEOPLE A$$HOLES. DONT PLAY YOURSELF, AND I FREAKIN' DARE YOU TO POST AFTER ME BECUASE THEN YOUR IN FOR A REAL GOOD FIGHT!!!!!
TRY BUSTALK, AND YOU'LL BE SORRY! ESPECIALLY ON MY PART!
Trevor
ALSO, Since you are so damn bold why don't you post your name, PUNK!
Trevor
You can kiss mines, because my info I hand out here is straight from the TA's Dept of Buses office, Mr. Joel Brill to be exact, So If that isn't close to true info, then you just look like the biggest a$$ for making that posting!
TRUST, Ha you wouldn't know it from a RTS or a Orion!
Trevor
I'll SEE YOUR A$$ AT THE STRIKE, B!TC#!
Trevor
Enough is Enough & you people should ignored his post. I think this guy (the Shifter)is jealous because of us. Couple week ago someone post me in my bus's page said "where the f*** you get that pictures from? So it doesn't bother when someone said something bad about my bus page & i just ignored it & i delete it. Any way Trevor Logan is the man who know anything about MTA & he get information from Dept. of Buses. So just chill out & enjoy it with other people from Bus talk & Sub talk. Any way have a good night & STAY OUT OF TROUBLE.
Peace Out
David Meaney
PS I been a Sub & Bus Buff since i was 4 years old & Trevor fix your URL some of your page didn't come out
problem fixed Meaney!
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk/NYCTransit.html
Harry is right, we should not let this get to us even though to some it already has, me included. Lets of course, Get back to buses!
Thanks,
Trevor
Hell Yeah!!!! Trevor & other Transtalk members, im down with you & i will watch your back. Any way Trevor did you get the pictures of TMC-GMC#4662 accident on Thankgiving Day???
Peace Out
David Meaney :)
PS: Trevor, Some of you took a pictures a night & come out little dark but my idea that it better to take pictures at day time because the pictures will come out great. Also i will be starting taking pictures & update next month. I been cleaning up my Bus & Subway Page.
After having had a run-in with this clown just last Thursday over the artic assignment, you all have to simply ignore him. He apparently is a miserable person who doesn't respect our hobby. There are some very knowledgeable people here in BusTalk, from whom you can learn a lot. I haven't been on BusTalk for very long, but there are some very sharp customers here who share my love of buses. It is a lot of fun being here and sharing thoughts with all of you (even though some of you abused me for the 1095-1109 to 126 St thing--which, by the way, is going to happen in the spring). So ignore Shiter's (oops, did i forget the "f"?) posts, for he has nothing positive to offer to any of us.
Peace to all, and pray for this guy.
Hey Mista Shitee, don't call us stupid, we are very knowlegable in the subject. Just because you work FOR THE MTA at an MTA DEPOT doesn't mean you can just fuckin flip at us and say we're idiots. If you think we're idiots, I think you don't belong working as a shifter for the MTA, you've gotta take pride in your job!!!!! No wonder the MTA is so horrible, people like YOU don't take pride in their job. I hope you have the brains not to post again...
Peace Out (but no peace to Mista Shitee)
-Clayton
P.S.: If you don't take pride in your job Shitee, QUIT!!
Im not exactly a bus buff but I respect the hobby of which may bring enjoyment to some who do. There are too many people falling prey to the culprit, of whom I complained to the Webmaster. We have had this discussion before and I only ask that you don't have to inject anger into an article that is YOUR HOBBY. Ignore the guy. He is laughing his socks off and I don't see a response since his first posting. Inserting curses into flamaging posts will result in more internet harrassment by the government. There was a new law passed early this year making it illegal to place harassing posts on the internet directed at another party. I'd hate to see Mr. Pirman have to close shop because there are ones out there that cannot control their anger.
Im not exactly a bus buff but I respect the hobby of which may bring enjoyment to some who do. There are too many people falling prey to the culprit, of whom I complained to the Webmaster. We have had this discussion before and I only ask that you don't have to inject anger into an article that is YOUR HOBBY. Ignore the guy. He is laughing his socks off and I don't see a response since his first posting. Inserting curses into flamaging posts will result in more internet harrassment by the government. There was a new law passed early this year making it illegal to place harassing posts on the internet directed at another party. I'd hate to see Mr. Pirman have to close shop because there are ones out there that cannot control their anger.
By the way, I reposted this for a reason. Read the subject above.
Hey shifter, if you don't like what is said turn away. You seem to know alot so why would you even bother looking here? This is a place a exchanging information, now granted some of it is false, but that is why there are peolpe who are here to gladly help out and correct that false info. Speaking of corrections maybe the "F" in your name woulb be exchanged with a "T" get it. Oh yeah by the way you call us idiots but as I look at your posting you have the grammar of a retarded monkey(Bus Buffs are idiot singular or plural anyone?). So please when you settle down,grow up and get off your high chairand realize this site was created for transit buffs so it you don't like it don't come here anymore, you miseduecated wise ass. Thank You.
I have no reason to doubt what you are reporting. But 1095 to 1109 to 126 St? 15 buses for the M15? They need a lot more buses than that for full service. And when you consider buses out for maintance & defects, less than the 15 running at any one time. I don't understand the logic. Finally, to my knowledge, 126 St. does not have the special large lifts needed for the Artics.
You are right 126 St does not have lifts for artics--yet!! Remember there are 260 new buses to be delivered. By the time those 15 buses get to 126th Street, it should be around late spring or so. You're right 15 artics aren't NEARLY enough buses for the M15, but the artics are coming to 126th according the TA's Department of Buses. I will double check the route for you (it could be the 57th or 66th Street x-towns). At least you came at me with more class than my buddy "Shifty".
Get with the times...the Q5A is dead and bus 7585 is a paperweight on some kid's desk! Try riding my fave 8941. Anyway, you must be smoking something if you think 126th Street is going to get 1095-1109--my guess is FLA, and not just 15 buses either. What is anyone going to do with just 15? And what's this thing with GH and KB taking turns with the artics? According to you, they both alternate taking delivery of the D60's. Will someone please tell me what is really going to happen with the artics? Shifter was right, because this guy is nuts!
It's called space! It's better than having none at all! Flatbush won't see artics anytime soon so get over that idea! The additonal order for the 140 units that were destined for FLA are on hold for now! The reason for the split in delivery is something called need. Since the units are being transferred down to WS that means there are buses missing and so they are being slpit up and also that is the way the Dept of Buses wants to do it so if you want to know the real deal write a letter or send an e-mail and see what answer you get and stop with the disrespect! This is rediculous and tired!
Peace
DaShawn
"but the artics are coming to 126th according the TA's Department of Buses."
How'd you get info from TA's Department of Buses?
i heard from a driver a while back at 126th street artics will not go there because of the turn at 126th street from 1st av to the garage, not enough room.
Many have tried to put out this myth before, but somehow it doesn't work.
THE ARTIC DOES NOT HAVE A WIDER TURNING RADIUS!
AMEN!!! The turning radius of the D60 New Flyers are 41 feet!
Peace
DaShawn
Maybe he/she works there; maybe someone he/she is close to works there. Maybe he's Larry Reuter in disguise. :)
-Hank
"Maybe he's Larry Reuter in disguise. :)"
Could be...
Naw. He makes too much sense too be Larry Reuter :Þ
I can't believe I am getting so much grief over this artic posting. As far as how I got info from DOB, how do you think I got the info? I WORK THERE. I will say no more about the artics, or give you guys info that I feel would be too much for you guys to handle.
And as far as my old fashioned name, I grew up taking the Q5A to school (along with the Q43) when they had 3900's, 4300's, 6200's, and finally 7500's. I chose 7585 because it was the last bus new-look that I rode with working a/c (until the Blitzes came along of course). This 8941 guy is clearly a rookie.
I figure that they won't bother with Artic lifts at 126st until the depot gets a complete rebuild. Any maintainance that would require a lift would probably require bringing the bus to Westside or Kingsbridge, the latter being more likely since it's closer.
-Hank
I haven't heard anything about articlated buses going to 126st Depot but 126st Depot doen't have a large articlated lift. Any way i don't know where you get the information from & couple months ago New Flyer Articlated buses was going to 126st Depot but somebody in MTA change there mind & send it to West Side Depot because they have about 8 or 10 large articlated lifts. Only person get the whole information about buses it Trevor Logan. All i know that #1001-#1109 are going to West Side Depot if this is true. So don't argument each other about bulls***.
Peace Out
David Meaney
new flyer told transit thy will void warrenty if buses are sent to manhattan. this was discussed months ago and shows they have little faith in their bus performing on manhattan streets.
That certainly sounds like a possibility, but somehow, I can't see a company doing that, and expect to make sales of this nature.
-Hank
This makes no sense! The Bronx have streets in alot of places that are in worse condition than the streets in Manhattan. I would really like to hear from someone in Dept of Buses that could confirm that statement. Why would you sell someone a product and then tell the customer where they could operate this vehicle. During the contract negotiations I am sure if the TA knew that aspect they would not have approved the contract!
Peace
DaShawn.
This does not sound right because the Bronx street aare 100x worse than Manhattan streets! If New Flyer wants to void warranties, Void them on sending brand new buses out to Brooklyn!!!!!!!
Trevor
.....WITH HIGHLY EXPLOSIVE "FAST FILL" NATURAL SYSTEMS INSTALLED BY MORONS THAT COULD MAINTAIN A BUS FROM THEIR OWN BODY! I'D VOID MY WARRANTY IN NO TIME FLAT, But not for Manhattan!
Trevor
About three months ago, here on BusTalk, there was a rather disturbing bit of cross fire over spelling and grammar, which really got very unpleasant to see. If a person has an attitude then it really doesn't matter how he/she spells--- it's the attitude that people respond to. If a person is here to share, and learn, and maybe even have some fun--- well again it doesn't really matter how he/she spells or puts together sentences. There are people here who do spell poorly, but post in a spirit of sharing knowledge for whom I really respect. There are other people who may spell and write beautifully but project an attitude of superiority, which can be irritating. You may find what I am saying now to be a lot of crap, and maybe it is. But some of the anger that I hear going back and forth is very upsetting.
We all try to sound and act like we possess knowledge and wisdom -- and we hope that we will get respect from others. But when it really comes down to it, what the hell does anyone really know? If we're lucky we may understand some of the truths of our own lives. If others are lucky, we may use these truths to deal with others in a compassionate way.
Ok I feel what your saying, but some of us do have a inside track to information over some others and, well i don't know about anyone else, But my sources of information that I hand out here happens to be straight from the horses mouth, the TA's Dept of Buses. Thats why I feel confident in what i share here, plus my own personal observations, the eyes never lie. Thats my justifaction. I cant speak for everyone else. But i just wanted to put that out there.
I am guilty of flaring up when this kinda crap goes down, but its rediculous and how many time are we gonna go through this, thats what my main flare up is!
Trevor
Trevor--- You put a lot of effort and enthusiasm into transit. I've got a copy of your TA fleet list dated Sep 2, 1999 that I downloaded off your site a couple of months and find very helpful. I realize it took a lot of time and effort to organize and maintain this information. You enjoy buses, so it's fun, and you enjoy sharing it with others. And I appreciate that.
Sometimes people know things that others don't and they kind of tease others about their knowledge. Kids do this with secrets-- like I know something, but I am not going to tell you, unless you're nice to me. This is normal stuff.
To be very honest with you, there are times when I am put off with some of the titles and fanfares that you use. Lord MTA is one of them. I am not Christian, but I could see where use of the word Lord might put some people off. You could be using it like a British Lord, but then there is the other sense of the word when we lord it over other people.
Again it is just a word, and this is my feelings. Again what counts is your enthusiasm and the time and effort that you put into your work and website.
And now to the really ugly issue of racism and prejudice that has crept onto the board. It hurts, it stinks, but it's a reality in this society. And I am not saying that you or anyone on the receiving end of it should put on a crap eating grin and put up with it. Maybe a smile of recognition-- of here we go again, or hey this crap is still out there buzzing around in people's heads. And it sure as hell is. I can quite honestly say that I am full of prejudices and intolerances that cut cross color, religious, national origin lines and social class lines. And I'm not just saying this to show off my high level of awareness. I'm saying this because frequently I lump groups of people together and just write whole groups off. I usually keep these thoughts to myself, frankly because it is better for my physical health. But it's there.
So back to BusTalk. I am still checking into the issue of whether Greyhound is using Prevost buses. This may be insulting ---- but are you sure that the bus you saw wasn't the new MCI Renaissance? I am no expert on new buses, and I must admit to my own prejudice about the new European styling. To me they all look alike. I know that Greyhound has the Renaissance out there, I haven't seen one, nor do I have any desire to. You also mentioned that Greyhound Canada has had Prevost for a couple of years. I recently asked one of my spies in Canada who is really gung ho Greyhound about this. He said that Greyhound Canada bought out I think Voyageur a couple of years ago, and may have acquired some Prevosts in the process. But he was surprised at the thought of Greyhound of Canada buying any, since I think that they actually still own part or all of MCI. So watch your back, I'm out there trying to catch you on this Prevost thing. And if you get a picture of a Greyhound Prevost, I will reluctantly put on a crap eating smile and eat it.
why is it in atlanta georgias MARTAS bus system they require you to
SWIPE THIS CHEAP TOILET PAPER TRANSCARD TOWARD YOU ON A NARROW SLOT
then you have to wait for the slowest computer to BEEP???
then if your tissue transcard fails you are imediately accused
by the bus operator of counterfiting your MARTA TRANSITCARD ??!!
even in the POURING DOWN GEORGIA RAIN people waiting as everybody
tries in vain to make this total failure to fail not work???
how about that MARTA RIDERS is used to live in atlanta i know !!!
why do all foothill drivers wear american flags on their uniforms??
do you have to prove your patriotism first in order to be a bus driver?? I DID NOT EVEN SEE GREYHOUND STOOP SO LOW !!!
I am very angered at the lack of attention by the media of a possible TA strike effects on passengers and riders who use the system.
The people who run the trains and buses deserve much more for what they do, but, if they walk out, not only will it hurt the economy, it will seriously disrupt millions of peoples lives. That is why a TA strike is illegal, and it should be, for good reason.
Both MTA and TWU should get this straightened out, or in my opinion, there should be Federal Police intervention if they threaten to strike.
Many garment and resteruant workers who make LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE work in NYC. Just stop by Grand street sometime and see all the Chinese women boarding trains to/from garment factories, or all the men on their way to work in the resteruants. They work all day, all night, for a measly 3-5 dollars pay an hour, barely enough to feed themselves.
The N20/21 brings alot of poor hispanic immigrants from Queens to Nassau to work as servants and busboys. What are they going to do without that bus? Or that train. Poor people don't have the option of a car to get them to work. And they cannot afford to "strike" like the TA workers can.
The immigrants moved from third world countries so they wouldn't have to walk 5 miles to work, but thanks to a possible TA strike, they'd be forced to endure it again.
I know that if I were a TA worker, no matter how tough it would be, I'd never have the nerve to walk out, or stop my N20/21 from going to
Flushing, no matter how strong the resistance is. Egg my bus, throw rocks at me, I'M GOING PAST THE CITY LINE. My passengers come first. That's what public service is about.
There are other ways to make the MTA hurt, like refusing to collect fares. Or just strike on holidays. But a full fledged strike by even 25% of workers should be stopped immediately and negotiations forced, by the Federal government, police, army,etc.
I am against a strike, because, it hurts the poor people who need transit to live, for improving working conditions. Try working as a resteraunt busboy who lives with 10 other people in a small apartment, for 15 hours a day, or a seamstress in a garment factory, which has downright dangerous conditions like locked exits, not even allowed to go to the bathroom, all for less than minimum wage. Now make them walk to work on top of that! That's what a TA strike will do, and I sure hope that a stop is put to it, a police action if neccesary!
No, I'm not a supporter of Guiliani and his attacks against the homeless (overuse of police), but when it comes to things like Fire, Police, Transit, Medical, and public services of the like, they must function properly, and at all times, and it must be strictly enforced, with force if neccesary, in order to have a stable state.
I agree with you, but the one thing that we need to understand is that the TA now gets the bulk on their money in advance since they introduced the Metrocard and it's in high demand. The other thing is that the TA is now telling everyone who works for them that they do not have a surplus and that there is no funds available for the type of increase they want. Yes! All of us will be affected by a possible strike but I for one am in full support of my fellow bus operators and train conductors and motormen. If your lovely mayor and the city council can give them selves a 27% raise in one shot then why not the people who are responsible for the movement of about 6 million people per day on the Subway and Bus system. I am not in agreement of using the police to enforce the TA employees who wish to strike to make them go back to work. If the TA and the other powers that be can afford to get resources to pull a campaign like that then they can also do the same on getting these ladies and gentlemen a fair contract! Also put yourself in the TA employees shoes and then you would probably have a different opinion on this whole situation. The majority of poeple who use the transit system are poor people and I am part of that group, I know that if push comes to shove I will walk to get to work. These people you speak of will be walking as well to make a living and this would be an interim situation, not permanent! Another thing would be that if both the TA and the Unions would get rid of the folks who get paid very large salaries that do nothing and have company cars and have no idea of how the system they represent works, then we would be having a completely different conversation. Once again, I do agree with you on the majority of what you have posted here, but there are somethings that should be looked at from the operators point of view.
Peace
DaShawn
I'm not saying the TA and the city aren't screwed up, because in reality, the city, and the MTA, are extremely corrupt and in my opinion, in contempt of the people.
The TA says they have all this extra money and give themselves (city execs, MTA top brass get a big raise), meanwhile very little of that remains to be seen by TA workers and passengers.
Many subway stations are in terrible shape, bus service is terrible (waiting 20 minutes for a bus in peak PM on Northern Blvd at Francis Lewis), crowding at rush hour is downright dangerous on the westside IRT, I can think of many other examples.
Problem is there needs to be more public control over the TA, such as possible election by workers or passengers of who's in charge of the TA. And yes, working conditions and wages for the TA workers are quite inadequate. It would be great if all workers could show their solidarity against crony management. Unfortunately though, the most oppressed (the sweatshop workers) don't know how to speak up, or are intimdated, by management. I don't support using force against workers, but rather forcing negotations between workers and management, and forcing management (the MTA) to meet the workers halfway. I know striking is sometimes the only way for workers to speak out against horrible conditions, but there are times it has gone too far. It would be nice to see the TWU (the Union) spend more time trying to get people into public office who cared about workers, instead of threatening war. A strike will not displace the Mayor, City Council, Governor, or the MTA board. The only way to do that is to get the voting public's attention on what has become one-party politics (there's only really one party, they all support corrupt rich people) War does not solve anything, but convincing the public to change the system and get rid of rich upper class cronies who steal our money, well then we'd be talking some big change. If only workers could bind together to REALLY change the system for everyone, then we'd be on a better road than the one we're on today.
Until MTA management changes, we'll continue having the same problems down the road, for years to come.
Now it's time for you to hear from an actual mta bus operator.
you don't know the half of it!after 17 years of driving city buses,
my body is aching all over(and i'm only 39 years old)!!!!!!!!!!!
i'm almost never off on holidays and when i call in sick i had
better be home in case a ta investigator comes to my home.
twice a year,i have to attend refresher classes to keep my licence.
these classes are at 7a.m. and i work till 2a.m. the night before.
if for some reason i'm late for work,i will be sent home(no excuses)
i've only been late once(i think it was in 1989)i was sent home,
with no pay.anyway,as far as i,m concerned,we should be making
twice the amount they are paying us.i am fed up and ready to strike,
public be danmmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANDY/ULMER PARK
Yes, I have over 200 sick days in the bank after working for them for 20 years. As you can see, I use my sick time prudently. But that doesn't make any difference to the TA! Some superintendent just called on the phone checking up on me to make sure I as home! And he told me there is a squad out there making home visits as well! I am out sick today due to virus everybody in my household has experienced. If I had an easy job, I probably would have been able to drag myself to work, but the passengers wouldn't be too happy if I had to use the toilet mid-run during one of my 4 round trips on the E line. Not to mention Control Center when my train couldn't move and the rest of the railroad is backed up behind me while I'm taking care of personal business!
Incoming Bad Pun...
We certainly wouldn't want ANYONE to be backed up! Espescially behind!
End of bad pun.
-Hank :)
Perhaps they should have restrooms right in station for workers who need them badly. Trouble is, with tight headways, trains would get delayed. However, on the BMT Broadway Line, there's ample time between trains to use a bathroom!
John! I could not agree with you more! The TA does need more public control and they are not doing a great job at making this system what it sould be. Ok, so we have new buses and new subway cars coming in but the service is horrible! Just today I waited 25 minutes for a M14 crosstown bus this afternoon when I usually wait 5 min max. While waiting for this bus I also witnessed today a bus operator falling asleep at the light on Avenue D and East Houston street today! What the hell is going on! We as the people who have made this system what it is need to be more responsive in the operations of it! I am really not impressed with the operations of the current MTA system. Thanks for your response and I am very happy to have an excellent conversation with you and others.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
The scary thought is, places like Hong Kong, Singapore, Taipei and Shanghai have such a rapidly growing transit system that may surpass the MTA in 10 to 20 years.
These cities also real protection in case of a strike, I believe they are banned in Taiwan and China.
If the MTA drivers get what they want, a raise, then it'll hurt the passenger's pocket also. I have a bad feeling that the fare would go up to a possible $1.80. I feel both ways about this possible strike: Drivers do have to get what they want and if they haven't gotten a raise, then they got to do what they got to do: STRIKE!!! And how are the millions and millions of people who use the system everyday get to work? If this strike does happen, do you know that cars that have only 1 or 2 people will be banned lower than 96 St and along the LIE?!
This is not right! People would have to carpool in order to get to work. What about the people who commute by themselves everyday? They're screwed! What about the schools? Do they have a backup plan for them in case if this strike happens? I've asked the students around SJU if they heard of the possible strike and they haven't heard a thing. I'm an everyday commuter. I take the Q60-Q46. But the Q60 will get slaughtered if the strike happens- (it does when the subway breaks down) so I'll be using my 2 feet to get here. Tevi or Clayton could help us out here. Have you guys heard any alternate plans if the strike does occur? Manhattan is a bit more difficult to get around w/out subways and buses than Queens is. All we got to hope for is the best!
MM2000
PS Hey guys! I'm thinking that maybe we at BusTalk should try and help out the MTA workers settle their issues. Myabe we should send our petitions to MTA and see what happens. Maybe we could prevent the strike from actually happening.
I was in school for the 1965 strike. The schools people made a rule that if you could not get to your regular school then go to the nearest school. In my physics class, we had several Brooklyn Tech kids and that strike ran awhile. If I recall- the people jumpoed when the system came back up and that they closed pedestrian underpasses that shared/used the subway.
That Was 1966 And 1980
"Tevi or Clayton could help us out here. Have you guys heard any alternate plans if the strike does occur?"
Sadly, I haven't [heard any alternate plans]. First, I hope this doesn't happen. If it does, :::battle cry::: CLOSE THE SCHOOLS! Heh. But they might have to do that. I guess we'll just have to see.
Do most people go to school in their neighborhoods or not? If yes, then the strike might not be such an inconvenience for them, but my school is about 15 kilometers from my house.
I'm not sure exactly how far my school is from the house, but I live north of the East Village and my school's in BPC.
You can enter the address data into Mapquest interactive Atlas Driving Directions. Remember to select Door to Door, open the options and uncheck Ferry Lanes, Limited Access Highways and Toll Roads. The route it calculated for me would be the route I would use if I were to walk to school (Flatbush Avenue-Brooklyn Bridge). And I was close, 16.4 kilometers from Mill Basin to Battery Park City (BTW, which school do you go to?).
CORRECTION: Check those three options.
I'm not giving away my school, but which one do you go to?
I'm about 2.9 Miles from my house to school. I think it said 5.8 KM.
There are only two schools in Battery Park City.
I could just guess.
I also discussed my age before, that should make it clear.
If you would like to continue, do so by E-mail.
Any MTA/TA "surplus" does not belong to the TWU just because it is there. If it belongs to anyone, it's the fare-payers using the system and the taxpayers supporting the system. Some of the surplus should be put away for bad economic times and the rest put back into the system for the benefit of the public through new equipment purchases, station upgrades, etc.
There you go again with your anti-union venom! TWU does not want the surplus, they just want a portion of it. TWU members bought this system back from the dead and they are fed up with getting sub par contracts. Let me refresh your memory: a few years ago the TA cried poverty and TWU reopened the contract and gave up a raise. After it was finalised, the TA came up with a $300 million surplus. We want that raise back! The TA has enough money to give out free rides with free bus to subway transfers and $4.00 all day cards, unlimited passes and the like, but when it comes to give the workers their due, they offer crumbs. 9% over 4 years? They can keep it. This is an insult. How much of that 9% does the worker keep after taxes?
Hardly venom, just a little criticism. Whatever the many labor-management issues may be, the TWU is the entity talking up the "surplus" like it was just there to be doled out like candy.
I spoke to my father who is B/O at West Side Depot & i ask him if there is going to be strike next week & he said "we are going to strike or not". So we have to wait next week & see it they going to strike or not?
Peace Out
David Meaney
So Dan,
don't us twu workers pay taxes too? Who really makes the system run?
who's been handling all the extra ridership created by fare
discounts? did you ever think the ta would get rid of 2 fare zones?
this is great for the public,but does me no good because i already
ride for free.i want some of the things the ta took away from me
over the years when they were broke.the ta and the public take us
for granted because we are always around for them.well,guess what;
current odds for a strike are 50/50.twu e-board is currently split
down the middle.one vote may decide it.
I WISH THAT VOTE WAS MINE..........................................
ANDY/ULMER PARK
Hello! The money we pay also goes toward the paying of employees not just the riding public! The deal is the TA has already earmarked money for new equipment, that is what their 5 year capital plans are for! The deal is the TA need to learn common sense and also learn to prioritize projects and other things that are of major importance! The unions have worked out a deal the last time and they have dealt with a lack of a raise and now they are supposed to deal with that again! That is completely mad!
Peace
DaShawn
I strongly agree with John, This strike could kill us, and if any of you Bus Operators or TA workers on BT have a heart to us other fellow bus fans who have to get to work, Please at least think before you make the final step!
Trevor
If MSBA specifically tells you to terminate your bus at the city line, are you going to defy your bosses and drive to Flushing? You'll be out of a job! Haven't you guys gone out on strike at least once since 1980, and isn't it true you guys are not covered by the Taylor Law. Refresh my memory.
Why would MSBA want me to terminate at city line when it is the Union calling for a strike? What the MTA wants is to get all the workers past the picket lines as they can, and I would intend to do so, not for the MTA, but for my passengers. But that is "if I was a bus driver". In reality, I'm a rider, and I'd be screwed if they terminate at the city line, no way to Flushing, and into the city.
I ride the N20/21 bus to Flushing and know alot of the poor immigrants who really work for slave labor who live in Queens and work in Nassau.
For them, a bus that does not go into Flushing means they'd have to walk 4 to 5 miles to the bus stop at the city line.
Cmmon, what kind of person would leave them stranded? I'm not that kind of jerk.
Saw 274 on the QM1 this morning. I also noticed why the 400s have been giving drivers so many problems. The 400s have 2 fueling tanks while the 500 Expresses have 3. The 2000S and 3000s at Triboro also have 3 tanks.
MM2000
What are you talking about?
Please feel free to talk about NYC Bus Routes and Destination Signs
NO Discussion of Members ages and membership requirements,,,etc,,this terminated my last One List
New Routes
Route Changes
Detours
School Runs
Subway Shuttles
NYC Transit,MABSTOA<,DOT,,LI Bus,NJT,BEE LINE,etc
http://www.egroups.com.group.NYCBUSNEWS
or
write to
NYCBUSNEWS@egoups.com
Steve
Steve - is the sige up and working yet? I couldn't access it.
Steve - is the site up and working yet? I couldn't access it.
http://www.egroups.com/list/NYCBUSNEWS
sorry for the typo ,
Steve
I will be posting agendas,,etc,,at this site
This avoids posting to NYC.transit..Bus Talk and Sub talk
Steve
Please join and check todays News
Steve
Only members can Post or have their messages read by all members,,
Please join if you want to get involved
Well, looks like Queens Division is at it again. This morning I spotted 9346 fully decked out with holiday decoations throughout its interior. Usually JAM and QV do this every year (oddly enough, CS doesn't). Are there any other depots that decorate their buses for Christmas? How did this "tradition" in Queens start anyway?
I've know that QV and JAM has been doing it for years on their express buses. I vaguely remember seeing Command Buses with decorations too. It seems to happen at depots where the operator has a regular bus. Years ago all TA/OA buses would have a "Seasons Greetings" sign in the first window behind the front door.
Wayne
Command Orion #4967 has X-MAS decorations. Thats the only one i noticed so far.
Peace,
KayBee
Triboro Coach 3055 has decorations. Also MTA buses 1852 9253 1747 1755 3820 and 3869 have them.
MM2000
Assuming the MTA Board approves the purchase at its December meeting (the NYCT Committee met today), NYCT will order 250 low-floor buses from Orion. 125 are hybrid diesel-electrics (like the 6350s at Manhattanville) and will probably go to Manhattanville). The other 125 are CNG and will go to Coliseum when it opens. Delivery will take place in 2001-2002.
David
Wha? Low-floor orion? Are you aure you don't mean low floor new flyer?
Yes, I rode one of these on the M103 a few weeks ago, it's the Orion VI. Like the Nova LFS (995), the bus has a full length low floor aisle and a rear window.
And it can be fitted with the Hybrid propulsion system. It takes up more room, though. I think Hybrid is the perfect solution to the problems of artic power. Think: A diesel (or CNG) generator providing electricity for sandwich motors at each wheel, for 6-wheel drive. No worry about propulsion, no driveshafts, no fishtailing on ice, as a traction control computer will handle all the acceleration. Just mash the pedal, you go.
(Of course, this is a very rough description of the setup, but I'm sure you see my point.)
-Hank
Damn i wish they (MTA) should order New Flyer LF not Orion LF.
Peace Out
David Meaney
PS: Now on i will be using Millennium Man 2000
Why? The Orion VI is COOL! I think it's better than the D40LF.
Get Gillig Advantage LowFloors there better than the rest....
I like the Gillig that they have running out in Long Ilsnad, but they do not have any wheelchair accesibility. do they still run them?
Yes LI Bus still runs its Gilligs along with the City of Long Beach .They just had a major overhaul including chaning the signs from 1/4-3/4 split curtains to the Luminators currently used in the city and LI Bus Orion fleet
I've got some pics of Gilligs in Suffolk County....I'll make them available shortly.
-Hank
when you do,s send me the link and if you can get a bus roster of suffolk county buse and huntington area rapid transit buses, send it to me as well.
When I put them up, I'll post the link here, so we can all see...
-Hank
Being a fan of buses, yet never actually drive one, i am a commuter who has to take buses and or tains to work and would be seriously affected by the strike. Bus Drivers never thought of these 3 things before you go out:
1-for every day you dont work, you lose 2 days pay.
2-i heard that bus drivers who struck in 1980 and strike this time are fired.
3-in the new york times, it states that MANPOWER is the biggest hiring force in the city( a temp agency, mind you).
If you went on stirke, customers would have to find another way to get to work, or be forced to lose pay because they cant get to work(like me). But its not the end of the world. If you go on strike, but then return to work, the riders would be there as they would be if they raised the fare. The TA(union and managers) dont know this, but they have the city locked. Commuters have to ride buses and trains, no matter what you do, strike or not. Think about your actions on 12/15 if you do strike. Remember what is was like to be a commuter and see how that feels. I hope you do not, because , i am a temp and dont want to lose my job over this.
Addition to simon's post... "oh, won't somebody please thing of the children!"
That point is very true! But the deal is the drivers did not take a pay raise the last contract and think what that would feel like when the Mayor and City Council give themselves a pay raise of the same percentage and you work for a company that tells the world about the great surplus they have to then be told we have no surplus and we can't give you the money you want. The drivers are being short changed and they mayor has alot of nerve saying that the TA is giving them a fair raise of 9% over 4 years, that is not acceptable and for me and alot of people they can find other alternatives to get to work or if fortunate go to other locations for work, or even work from home if applicable. I am for the drivers and motormen on this one! And remeber that they just can't go and get temps just like that. You have to have experience and the appropriate license to operate a motorbus aka CDL.
Peace
DaShawn
e
These poeple think that driving a bus in service is so easy. I would like to see one of them drive any city route During any part of the day. Then they will see that dealing with the costers is no day in the park. Between having to deal with the old people and complain about everthing to the school kids trying always to put one over on you thinking that you are very dumb. Or driving and having cars cutting you off or stopping right in front of you and then telling you off when you hit the horn to get them to move. The best is when you can't get into the bus stop and the kneeler does not work and the people tell you have fixed it before you took it out of the depot. These are just a few thing that have to deal with while drive a bus in NYC or other place around the world.
Some people even tell me that I make to much as is and that we sould get less not more. They say the the fare will go up if we get a rase.
The best is when they start to complen as when they are waiting of a bus for what seem like days to them and then they expect you to get them right anwser of to why the buses are late or missing. I tell them to call the TA and then they give me a even bigger augment as to why. My favert saying is that I am on time and I don't know about any other buses but my own and they don't pay me the big money to even care about it.
So I wish someday than just for one day that you just ride the hole day with the same drive and see what we have to put up the and then tell me if we sould get a bigger rase or not.
Thank you for your time.
I have driven and know what the drill is. The pay is OK for what we do but we need to keep pace. I do not believe there will be a strike.
The hollidays are a poor time to be at home with no income comming in.
Good luck to all of you. The main disadvantage is that it is an election year. If there is a strike then Rudy will be unemployed and Hillary get to go back to DC. Cool huh? What will Bill do with the big house on the island with buddy and socks while the Ms. is on the Senate floor?
Clinton still won't win. Giuliani will take a heavy handed approach against the union, winning approval from the citizenry.
P.S. They're house is not on an island.
I thought it was on LONG island not Manhattan, the island
It's in Westchester, on the North American mainland.
OK, I was supposed to have said THEIR, but sometimes you screw up.
but sometimes you screw up.
yes I do. Hope you all sort this strike thing out.
Again good luck
no offense, you sound like a teacher. your job is dealing with the public. if this was a problem, why go into the field in the first place? Every job has its drawbacks. Nothing is perfect unless you work for yourself. Would you agree that teachers should go on strike if they have financial agrievances at the end of the school term when all the final exams are being taken and college entrances are being decided? Would you feel right if the students are getting screwed?
Your anger should be directed againt Virgil Conway, and not the working stiffs of this city.
The working stiffs of this city are often the ones who give us the
most grief.Now it's time for us to give that grief right back!!!!!!!
Every union has the right to strike except civil servants.I believe
this is unconstitutoinal and the law should be defied in this case,
reguardless of the cost.Our dignity as valuable proffessionals is
at stake.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
It's not unconstitutional. It's also legal for the government to outlaw all strikes. The Taylor Law was created so the government could punish it's employees for strking. Would it be unconstitutional if a private employer were to dock two days pay for any day that it's employees strike?
I think that a YEARS pay should be docked for a strike, all of the union leaders imprisoned, and those who quit in order to avoid having to work for free, have to pay a fine equal to a year of their pay or face jail.
You are nuts. We shoud have every right to stike and not to lose any money. Yes I can not realy aford of pay back two day pay for each day but I will if I have too. I have a baby on the way. It is do in Feruary os this is a bad time to lose my health coverage with my wife going to the doctor every other weeks. But if I have to then I will to get all these working stiff who work for the MTA a fair deal that we sould get.
Here is your post, translated into english. (What route are you on, I want to make sure I won't be on your bus. And God help your kid with a parent as illiterate as you)
You are nuts. We should have every right to strike and not to lose any money. Yes I can not really afford of pay back two day pay
for each day but I will if I have too. I have a baby on the way. It is due in February as this is a bad time to lose my health coverage
with my wife going to the doctor every other weeks. But if I have to then I will to get all these working stiff who work for the
MTA a fair deal that we should get.
I have Dyslexia I try my damn best to get my point across. I am not illterate. God help my kids no god help you A__ H___. My kid might have Dyslexia to, it can be pasted to my children. Dyslexia dose not have anything to do with my drive infact in the five year that I have been driving I have NOT had accdent in this time. Who are you to tell me, are you an eglish teacher or just someone who like to start trouble me people. So get of my danm back OK. I did not want other drivers to know who posted the last massage becouse I know other people who read board and I did not want them to know how I was. But I have to give my name so when you see any of my post you don't have to read them.
P.S. I am on the B16 during this pick, know you have a chance not to get on my bus.
Thank you.
Robert
What have the chinese resteruant and garment workers done to you? They ride your bus and pay their fare, read the paper, and go to work for less than minimum wage.
These minorities with low wage occupations are most of what you transport, I see them on the N20/21, 7 train station at Flushing, and Grand street in Manhattan. They really work hard, and compared to their occupation, any MTA job is a pleasure. How about working for 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, all for $20-$40 a day, living in a tiny apartment with 8 other people, with barely enough food to eat? That is what the life of many is who live in this city.
What have they done to deserve being stranded and starving? Don't take your anger out on innocent people. You are causing a Holdup, literally, if you walk out!
wo mie fan cuo!
gonggong qiche he huoche zai nali?
>>>>How about working for 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, all for $20-$40 a day, living in a tiny apartment with 8 other people, with barely enough food to eat? That is what the life of many is who live in this city.<<<<
Then maybe they shouldn't have come to the US in the first place.
strunzo, figlio di putana nera!
What John just wrote about is more important than this strike and whether the middle and upper class of the city are inconvenienced. I have often wondered who is paying for all the millions and billions of dollars that have been made by people in the stock market? John spoke of the lives of many people who work 7 days a week 18 hours a day to give the majority of us the sense of an affordable life.
People get unhinged over the exploitation of workers in foreign countries by sneaker makers or electronic companies. Check out what this man is telling us about what goes on right in front of our noses. His words shouldn't shame just the unions --- it should shame everyone of us who benefit from the exploitation of these people. I wonder as this year and this century draw to a close, whether we will all be remembered for our greed and lack of concern for its consequences?
I was watching Ch.7 News at 11pm & they said the meeting don't look good & look like MTA going on strike this wednesday morning at 12:01am. I don't understand what is going on here. Look like people are suck going to work & i heard if you going to manhattan below 96st than you need 3 or more people in the cars if you drive alone than the cops see you than they will tell you go back home.
Peace Out
David Meaney
PS: If they go on strike this wednesday than it will last two days.
I thought it was you can't enter manhattan below 96th street, not drive in it.
okay, it was me who heard of crosstown opening as a depot, but hear is what i read from a magazine called "THE LEADER" given out to bus employees.
Two new depots are to open, but they are not to be bus garages. They are to be Central Maintence Facility, located at Zerega Avenue in the Bronx and the Avis Buliding in Maspeth By the time the start of the year 2000 rolls around, the TA will hopefully have completed negotiantions of the property.
I too wish for another depot in brooklyn, but what about Queens, where i read that Jamaica Depot is in repair and a new depot is needed or Staten Island, where they dont have enough room to house the buses?
Instead of everybody yelling here of typo errors, bad language and what not, complain to the TA and ask them why arent there new bus garages in these boroughs?
Simon: I been reading "The Leader" for while & it help me what the MTA going to get in the future. Well the Magazine is pretty good but it only have about 8 or 10 pages. Any way i haven't been on bus talk for while & i see there is a lot of argument in the post for couples week now about buses assignment to diffirent depot. Central Maintence Facility is building now at Zearge Ave.
Peace Out
David Meaney
Amen, Simon. Jamaica is not only in bad shape, they have no room for their 190 buses. What's worse is their fleet will increase to nearly 200 next year. Where are they going to park them? On Merrick Blvd? If they want to see those buses again, they better not.
KILL IT, STOP IT, END IT, Lets act like responsible freakin' adults here!!!!!
First off, My new name "Lord MTA" is not used in the terms of not being over anyone. The name was a joke, done by some friends of mine becuase of my extensive expertise and sources. So please do not take offense to this name, Lord MTA. I have plenty of nicknames that swap with (i.e. MTA Boy 2000, Flxible Boi 9742, Mr. MTA).
Secondly, This bull$#!t really need to come to a halt. Hank, kill the grammar blasting of others, NO ONE IS PERFECT, NOT EVEN YOU! Q5A, go on and post your info, i understand you work with the TA Dept of Buses, well your might know my source, e-mail me and we'll discuss this! Everyone, LETS GO BACK TO THE BUSES, and PUT THIS UGLY past 2 days behind us because its really sickening and disturbing. I am guilty of flipping but I flip when it starts to get personal (i.e. Projects and Racial comments), because I am a young african-american who just happened to have some project background but came out great. SO LET CUT THE CRAP!
Last off, BACK TO THE BUSES!
Trevor
Lllllllllllllllllllet Get Ready To Rumbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbble
Peace Out
David Meaney
Thank You DAVID, I'm fellin' Ya!
Trevor
Let see someone in this bus talk acting like a little kids & some of them acting like a adults. Im happen to be 30 years old & i enjoy reading Subtalk & Bustalk. So some of you think you are perfect but we not perfect but im sick of tired that some one talk bulls*** about grammer, spelling, buses assignment, which buses not going or which buses going to. So please respect everybody in this bustalk or subtalk. SO Hank i don't know who you are & trying to tell someone you the best?????? Just i said NOBODY IS PERFECT HERE & GROW UP. Just like Trevor said. I haven't been writing in the post for while because everybody start talking bulls*** each other about buses or other. So let it go & let talk about buses not bulls***. So have a sweet dream & be safe. We have 21 more days for Millennium 2000.
Peace Out
David Meaney
Actually, it's 387 days to the new millenium. But hey, it's just numbers (and of course, it depends on who you ask).
And for the second time in two days, I find I must defend myself against false accusations that I have been flaming people based on their spelling and grammar. I have not. I've bit my tongue (and have the mark to prove it) while reading some posts, and I promised certain people I would stop criticizing the grammar and spelling in everyone's posts. I have kept that promise, 100%. I'm not going to bother posting a third reiteration of what I said to 'The Rock', as you can all go and read it yourselves. Your responses have been totally off the mark. Aditionally, I don't care where you live, what species you are, or even if you like smokey BBQ Doritos. This is the second time I have been accused of being racist (although NOT in the specific post I am replying to) and yet you all forget, I have no idea who ANY of you are (with one exception), where you live, what you look like, or your nationalities, nor do I care. I only care about collecting and distributing information on just about everything under the sun. My only complaints have been about posts that were just one line ('I saw xxx on the xxx today') which have stopped, as I wasn't the only one to complain; and the grammar, which is the only thing that continues to bother me. After the last time we went through this (September?) I stopped. I haven't criticized anyones spelling or grammar on this board since, nor will I. Like I said, I promised. And I keep my promises.
-Hank
I want to know how do i get a job for Shifter? Do i have to take a test for Shifter or get promotion from diffirent MTA title? Could the MTA Traffic Checker, B/O, T/O, Cleaner, Station Agent or C/R can promotion to Shifter? I just want to know & any body who work for MTA just tell how to get a job for Shifter. Thank You
Shifters are Bus Operators by title. They have picked jobs as Shifters. You would have to become a Bus Operator (by taking and passing a Civil Service exam, getting a CDL [a special driver's licese], and getting through training), then pick shifting work at whatever depot you're assigned to/pick into. Bus Operators on this site can tell you whether shifting "tricks" usually go to senior Operators; I think they do.
David
[I want to know how do i get a job for Shifter? Do i have to take a test for Shifter or get promotion from diffirent MTA title? Could the MTA Traffic Checker, B/O, T/O, Cleaner, Station Agent or C/R can promotion to Shifter? I just want to know & any body who work for MTA just tell how to get a job for Shifter. Thank You]
Become a B/O then wait 20 years!!
That strange because my father was a shifter couple time back at old 100st Depot & he been a B/O for since 1983. Some time supervise told him to come to work for shifter like in the weekend. Any way he don't like to work for shifter & haven't been a shifter since early 90.
Peace Out
David Meaney
You have to then take a special call to get shifter traning. The class is only one day on your day off. You get payed 8 hours for the class. After this every time you shift ether an extra or a regual trick you get an extra $0.50 an hour you work. It is also not ture that you need to have 20 years on the job. I know one person the has 5 or 6 years on the job and has a ragual trick at JG.
If the TA does strike next week, would the Private/DOT lines (QS, Triboro, et al) shut down also, or would they continue to operate?
heard this on the news..all private lines would run, but they would be crowded.
Schools will be closed the first day of the strike, and schools will open 2 hours late from day 2 on of the strike.
Where did you hear this?
I heard about the delayed openings on the 11 O'clock news on Ch.4
CHannel 4, 11:00 news.
Why? Because the kids who use public transport need alternative transport???
Those kids in NYCPS will be in school in July if that happens.
"Those kids in NYCPS will be in school in July if that happens."
That won't happen
In 1968, when the teachers struck for 6 weeks, school was extended to 3:45, no school was held in July, it can't because it would interfere with the summer semester.
During the smaller strike in 1967, no change in school time occured.
I may have gotten the years confused (it could have been 66/67).
New Flyer has a new model low-floor bus called the Invero. It is not clear from their Web Site whether the Invero will replace the traditional low-floor models, as those are still available per the Web Site. If you want to see the new model, try going to:
http://www.newflyer.com/flmo/fmlf40di.htm
I saw the new Invero. It is a nice looking bus. It is to bay that the TA won't get them. The TA is trying to gat each depot to have no more the two types of buses in them. (Exp. CAS&YOC=Orian&MCI or GH&KB New Flyer & RTS or JG all CNG mostly Old New Flyers FL) For this reason the that it is easy for the depot ot stock only parts for one or two diffent type of buses.
We all know the NYCTA is screwed up. They MTA board have profited from
the workers, while rewarding them little. Just like a lot of private companies as well, where the people at the top make alot, while the workers make little. But leaving the whole city of New York stranded, anger will be directed toward the workers and strikers, not the people at the top.
Most of the TA workers here have expressed they are planning on striking, and in my opinion, it is a terrorist act that will jam city streets with traffic, get people fired from their jobs, and make the most needy (sweatshop workers, busboys) walk to work, possibly not getting sleep because they must work in order to survive.
The TA workers make very valid points, but by striking, you hold the innocent people of New York hostage.
And the end result would be that the way the MTA is run will never change. By treating your riders like garbage and stranding them, you will not get their support. Thus the MTA will continue the bloated way it is. Perhaps if you didn't strike, and instead convince riders of the way you are treated, perhaps than you'd get the people of New York behind you. I support changing the MTA, and trimming the salaries at the top, and spending more on neccesary improvements, better benefits and salaries for workers, and keeping the fare from going up. But, you'll alienate all your support, including mine, if you leave me and millions of others stranded.
Just remember if you don't move the people of New York, you hold them hostage. Thus I have to support blocking of a strike, with a court injunction backed with force if neccesary. Terrorism will not be tolerated, and stopping the buses and subways equals terrorism. Don't hold innocent people hostage for your cause, no matter how true or important it is.
I just was talking to a very reliable source (he doesn't want to be named or anything, no i'm not making it up) and he says when I asked is it official that the MTA is buying 125 buses from Orion "Well not officially yet, but we will get the official notice soon. They will be low floor Hybrid buses and then they are going to order 125 high floor CNG buses too. Pretty good huh?"
Peace Out
-Clayton
I DID say it was pending MTA Board approval, didn't I? :-)
David
[I just was talking to a very reliable source (he doesn't want to be named or anything, no i'm not making it up) and he says when I asked is it official that the MTA is buying 125 buses from Orion "Well not officially yet, but we will get the official notice soon. They will be low floor Hybrid buses and then they are going to order 125 high floor CNG buses too. Pretty good huh?"]
Its not high floor, its low floor, 125 Hybrids and 125 CNGs!
Trevor
Sibce alot of buses will be moved from one depot to another (for instance: the 1997 Articulated buses will be moved from Gun Hill to West Side depot on January 16, 2000.) What other buses will be moved from one depot to another on January 16, 2000 in all five boroughs & what buses will be stored or retired as well.
I posted this info before but I will (FDNY lookee here) post it again
Manhattan: 5075-5124 GH to HUD
7535-7559 WS to HUD
8226-825somethin HUD to WS
1000-1109 GH to WS
That is all I know, anything else I would be glad to know.
Peace Out
-Clayton
isnt it smarter to send the 7500's to Ulmer Park where they have 7511-7534?
Not nessecarily, it'll cost less to send em to Hudson, less of a drive. And I said this before.
Clayton, TMC-GMC-#8226-#8259 are going to West Side Depot for Reman #7535-#7559 expect #7555-accident. I read some post saying #1095-#1109 are going to 126th Street Depot??? That depot doesn't have articlated lift & where they going to park?? The depot is very small & most of buses park right outside in front of depot, across the street & 129st old school bus depot. So we should wait & see what happen next month. You should been checking Glenn Bus Roster every week & the last update was Dec 7. So have a good night.
Peace Out
David Meaney
126 Street will be fitted with artic lifts during the first quarter of 2000. Buses 1095-1109 are slated to go there by the spring.
Also, as far as Glenn's roster goes, he gets a lot of his info from your's truly, and vice versa.
The offical Bus Assignment for January 16, 2000 has NOT yet been finalized. All of the artics will not be moved on 1/16/00. They will be moved as the new buses arrive at GH and KB. The bus assignment for 1/16 reflects changes to the bus route requirements as put out by Surface Schedules. Don't confuse that with the bus moves that will take place as a result of new bus deliveries, because since new bus deliveries take place over a extended period of time. Look at how long it is taking the 190 New Flyer D40LFs to come in. There is an assignment for the 4000's and 4600's and JG to move elsewhere, but it is NOT part of the 1/16/00 bus assignment.
I hope that makes things a little clearer.
are they planning to move the 4600's to ulmer park and remove the 3000s?
Glenn's Bus Roster had been Updates & there are new assignment for New Flyer & Novabus.
Peace Out
Dave Meaney
PS: Some of Transit Workers are not happy about the new deal & there is some of slowdown early today.
This question is really for all drivers, so fans please do not answer it if you are not a Bus Driver or transit employee ny profession. Ok in your personal/professional opinion what is the best bus made in the past 10-15 years. going back to GMC and Flexible 850s. I am very curious. This should be from lets say 1985-present. Thank you
If you only want to go back as far as as 1985,i submit for your
approval the 5000 to 5500 blitz buses.They were fast,strong,and
held the road well.The air conditioning was ice cold and the heat
was hot.Sure,it had no power steering,but it was a man,s bus.It was
the best remanufactured bus i have seen before or since.
ANDY/ULMER PARK(ta bus operator 17 years)
Andy: #5000-#5500 Blitz buses are great & my father who is the B/O love those buses because they fast & run well but didn't have the power steering. He used to pullout the GM Blitz almost everyday until GM Blitz buses retired in 1985 at old 100th street Depot.
Peace Out
Dave Meaney
My favorite bus was the 2600 series RTS. Fast bus, low ride to the ground and no interlock.
Second favorite was the 4100 series RTS same thing but with the interlock.
Of course I think 995 is the best thing to come down the pike but since the TA has no plans to order some Nova LFS, I'd have to say the Blitz remans are my favorite.
I really enjoyed driving the Blitz busses
When I came on the job in 1984 Flatbush had a few 1600's.I remember them being very fast and handled well with no modified interlock. When I went to Ulmer Park they had (and still have a few) 1800 series coaches. I later found out that 1600's had the same engine but with hard seats.Those were kickass buses.
The 1600s that Flatbush had later went to Staten Island. They did NOT have the same engines as Ulmer Park's 1800-series buses. The 1600s had 6V-71s (non-turbocharged), while the 1800s had/have 6V-92s (turbocharged).
David
[When I came on the job in 1984 Flatbush had a few 1600's.I remember them being very fast and handled well with no modified interlock. When I went to Ulmer Park they had (and still have a few) 1800 series coaches. I later found out that 1600's had the same engine but with hard seats.Those were kickass buses.]
On the M9 today, something sort of like a slowdown happened today, but not really. At 7:22 this morning, an M9 came, run 4, at 7:22. My bus, the M9 run 1, usually gets there at 7:25 or 7:26. I figure, might as well get on. Double the people got on that usually do. Then at one of the turns, I see my usual bus behind us. Go figure.
The 9.75 Percent the MTA is offering is peanuts. They are comparing the TA to the LIRR and Metro North when their base salarys are 8,000.00 more than the salaries of the TA. Local 100 opened up a contract that they did not have to and accepted a zero percent raise and give backs. When the times are good the MTA should make good and reward it's dedicated workers with a decent pay raise for the years of insufficient pay increments. If Guiliani breaks the treasury of Local 100 let the TWU disolve and bring in the Teamsters.
Your 100% right pal bring on the TEAMSTERS just look what they got for sanitation with a local of 8,000 members not 33,0000 like the t.w.u. A heart bill, 20 year pension, daily annuities, line of duty pension, when they lost the third man on the truck they got a hefty raise not like the t.w.u. when you drive a 20 foot longer bus and take away a Operator's salary you get a Quater extra a hour,
A Sanitation worker makes 53,000 for 40 hour week a Bus Operator makes 43,000 for a 40 hour week !
Let me know when you have to lift 25lb Garbage Cans 2000 times a day. Then make a comparison. Not that parity isn't deserved, but a sanitationman's job is much harder than a bus driver's, and a fair comparison isn't feasable.
-Hank
You are right that a comparison to a sanitantion department employee is unfair. Their jobs require physical exertion with few responsibilities while the transit titles (Operators, mechanics, etc.) have the responsibilities of transporting millions of people each day in a safe and efficient manner.
The initial contract request by the TWU is unrealistic and only served to fire up the membership. However, at a minimum the employees deserve a substantial salary increase that does not meet the annual CPI, but one that is deserving of the difficult times of recent with the HUGE increases in passenger volume.
Sonny Hall was tremendous at the rally last week, stating that Mayor Giuliani wants to build an eighty million dollar stadium in Staten Island, but does not want to become an active particpant in achieving suitable salary raises for the transit workers of New York City.
As for the battle cries of bringing in the teamsters, TWU has done very well for its members. However, it is time that Willie James is removed and replaced with an effective leader reminiscent of the great Mike Quill or Sonny Hall.
Happy Holidays to all and lets hope for a speedy agreement to all of this.
Im sorry but i must disagree. NEW DIRECTIONS is the driving force behind the scenes of getting a contract that the membership deserve. They are the ones pushing Mabstoas james to a strong stance against the MTA. They are the ones that will not settle for a 9.25 4yr. contract. As an irishmen myself, I know MIKE QUILL (THE BEST) would haved embraced NEW DIRECTIONS with open arms. I for one, this time will vote N/D and encourage all my fellow bus operators to do the same. FRESH POND.
A sanitation man's garbage doesn't talk back to him!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANDY/ULMER PARK
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO WWW.ONELIST.COM/COMMUNITY/NYCMETROAREABUSES, THE MESSEGE SAYS:
THE COMMUNITY SAYS IT DOESN'T EXIST.
PLEASE POST ANY INFORMATION YOU MIGHT HAVE ON THIS MATTER ON BUSTALK & IF YOU HAAPEN TO HAVE THE DECEMBER 1999 NYCT AGENDA, PLEASE POST IT ON BUSTALK.
SINCERELY,
MICHAEL
Can anyone post the new bus roster for Yukon Bus Depot for January 16, 2000.
Could anyone post the Hudson roster for Jan 16, 2000? Thanks!
Patience, patience, patience. The dept. of buses makes equipment decisons day to day. I doubt if they even know right now. After all, it is a month away! Glenn's UTC roster will have the changes when they happen.
Let's hope the Transport Workers Union Comes out of these contract negotiations with a fair and just contract for all it's union workers The problem is the workers are divided and not together you have 33,000 workers in T.W.U. and inner bickering between the t.w.u. and new directions this is not helping things, unite we climb divided we fall then you have 5,000 members in the AMALGAMATED TRANSIT UNION in Staten Island and Queens, Staten Island's contract is up 12/15/99 but Queens is Up 02/15/00 and Queens members will be working in the event of a strike but will not cross t.w.u. lines, WE need ONE Union in numbers there is strength. join M.A.B.S.O.A. and T.A. As ONE
I want to know if the MTA go on strike this Wednesday & that mean the MTA Workers will loss two days pay?
Peace Out
David Meaney
Yes,david sadly it's possible and very likely.However,it could be
avoided if we refuse to go back to work until the city promises not
to fine us.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
"However,it could be
avoided if we refuse to go back to work until the city promises not
to fine us."
It won't happen, the law is solid.
they can lose 2 days pay for every day they are out of work.
Absolutely. The NYS Taylor Law prohibits public employees (teachers, cops, firemen, sanitation, etc...) from striking. It's been upheld in the courts several times. There are fines for the union and a penalty for employees who strike.
-Hank
Attention all Bus Enthusiast!
The TransiTALK Platinum 2000 site has been updated, its been 3 weeks since the last update, SO you know that this one is huge, Several New Section, Roster Updates, close to 250 new photos all together
Come check it out!
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk/NYCTransit.html
Trevor
Good information Trevor & MCI buses are completed. So what next Trevor?? MTA going to get 125 Orion VII Hybrids buses to Manhattanville Depot & 125 Orion VII LF CNG buses going to New Coliseum Depot in late 2000 or early 2001. I heard Dept. of Buses want two types of bus each Depot not three or more diffirent types of bus. For Example: Yukon Depot MCI & Orion, Gun Hill Depot New Flyer & RTS, West Side Depot RTS & MCI. In 1991 they have only one type of bus that is RTS & now we have four diffirent type of buses. I know MTA will purchased 1,050 buses between 2000 & 2004 but i don't know it going to MCI, New Flyer LF or CNG, Orion LF or CNG & maybe RTS.
Peace Out
David Meaney
PS: The MTA & Union are getting worse & i don't want to see them go on strike tomorrow night at 12:01am Wednesday morning.
What you posted is totally correct Meaney, Thanks for supporting TransiTALK and leaving feedback, your like the one in a million that do!
Peace and Blessings
Regards
Trevor
Let's just posts about buses here please?! I don't want to come on here and look at a long pose that says bus buffs are idiots. If you don't like talking about buses here, then don't post here. Simply put, put out or get out! Also I don't want to hear about Hank being a racist or improper grammmar from Meaney or especially these to and from messages. We have an idea what they're saying but if they don't put an email address, this is a way to get in contact with the person, putting these to and from messages. Otherwise, if we have a question for that person (for example Q25-34) then how are we gonna ask them a question if we have 1 for them. Let's have peace on BusTalk PLEASE?! For once!!! Thank you!
Peace Out!
MM2000
PS Bus Buffs are cool. To me this is a hobby.
I hear you and I feel the exact same way, I take buses as a hobby. People like airplanes, they are almost the same as buses. So let there be peace on BusTalk!
Peace Out
-Clayton
That's right! And the king of the road is the MCI coach bus whisking happy commuters in great comfort from Manhattan to the far reached of Staten Island. If anyone thinks busfans are weird, that let them start there own damn webpage. But I bet once they are seduced by the MCI coach, they too will worship it as it passes by the mall.
WORD!!!!
BUS BUFFS ARE THE BEST! BUS BUFFS ARE OFF DA HOOK (Pardon the slang!)! BUS BUFFS ARE SOME IF NOT THE BEST PEOPLE AROUND!!!!
Trevor
HAPPY commuters?
-Hank
Compared to the RTS (RaT buS) we are the happiest commuters! The MCI is the best ever, bring on more, trash the RTSs!!
Absolutely right about the MCI'S BUT Those "RAT" buses are in Queens. I see 3807 3818 3820 3822 3869 3874 and 3881 opersting along Queens Blvd. But if this strike happens, then I won't see them.
MM2000
Absolutely right about the MCI'S BUT Those "RAT" buses are in Queens. I see 3807 3818 3820 3822 3869 3874 and 3881 operating along Queens Blvd. But if this strike happens, then I won't see them.
MM2000
Check out eBay Item #215157511 for a hard-to-find history book on the Newark City Subway. Auction closes tomorrow.
Are the New Coliseum Depot going to be half CNG & half Diesel Depot? Well all i know New Coliseum Depot can hold about 300 or more buses. I got a "The Leader" from November & MTA will purchased 1,050 new buses between 2000 & 2004 replace older buses & provide additional passenger capacity.
Peace Out
David Meaney
PS: Are the MTA going to buy more New Flyer buses in the future????????
The new Coliseum is planned as a ALL CNG Depot, but for the beginning it'll have some diesel content until more CNGs are purchased! 140 New Flyer Articulateds are in the plan for Brooklyn in the near feature, decisions about the Brooklyn artics will be made after the new Bronx artics fully come in. The 140 buses is a option order from the existing 260 New Flyer D60 order. Also too, your looking at 125 More Orion VI Hybrids (to be called Orion VII Hybrids), 125 Orion VI CNGs (to be called Orion VII CNGs), 75 Breda Low Floors, 5 NovaBUS RTS Hybrids, so far. More will probably pop up on the plan within the next few months.
Regards,
Trevor aka Mr. MTA-Going Your Way!
How do you get a "leader" magazine w/o being assocsaited with the MTA?
Tevi-MR.M9 Man: I got the "The Leader" Magazine from my father who is a B/O since 1983 & he get it every months. I have Aug & Oct "The Leader" Magazine.
Peace Out
David Meaney
I get copies of the leader too! When I go to the Dept of Buses Headquarters I always pick one up!
Not hard to obtain!
Trevor
Is there a way to get them if you don't work for the MTA and don't usually go to the Dept. of buses?
Depends on the Garage I got, I know people from Kingsbridge, Gun Hill, Jackie Gleason, East New York, Yukon, Manhattanville, Mother Clara Hale, and Jamaica. So those i really don't need permission to go to. I just go to the people I know there. For the other depots, i talk to my connect over at Dept of Buses.
Trevor
I understand that the ATU's (the union that represents Queens and Staten Island b/o's) contract does not expire on Dec. 15. This raises an interesting question: in the event of a TWU strike, what would happen to ATU employees? Would they report to their depots (CS, JAM, QV, CAS or YUK) and not pull out any buses? What would be most likely to take place?
The Amalgamated Transit Union Local 726 Staten Island Division's contract expires 12/15/99. The Queens Division's A.T.U Local 1056's contract expires 02/15/99 In the event of a strike Local 1056 would not cross T.W.U. lines, But would bring customers to the L.I.R.R. and or the 59th street Bridge, Therefore avoiding the Taylor Law.
CORRECTION: The AMALGAMATED TRANSIT UNION LOCAL 1056 CONTRACT EXPIRES ON 02/15/00
Sorry about that !
Thanks very much for the info.
A LI Bus driver told me they are not going into Queens and stopping their buses before the city line.
Will the Q12 be running from the city line to Flushing, or not? And is that rumor true about LI Bus not going to Queens?
Q12 IS an MTA bus out of Casey Stengel Depot. It will not be operating.
MM2000
All A.T.U Local 1056 Buses From The Queens Divison Will be running we have a contract in place to 2/15/00 Where and how they will run is not known yet. however we will be looking out for the health and safety of our members and will not cross T.W.U. lines.
Here are two more depot rosters circa 1970. (LONG POST)
KINGSBRIDGE DEPOT
3137-3210 TDH 5301 Ex Fifth Avenue Coach
3447-3461 TDH 5303
6404-6513 TDH 5303
8308-8375 TDH 5303
ASSIGNED TO ROUTES:
1 CONCOURSE 138 ST
2 CONCOURSE HUB
3 PROSPECT AVENUE
4 JEROME & BAINBRIDGE AVENUES
10 RIVERDALE AVENUE
11 170 STREET CROSSTOWN
20 BRONX & VAN CORTLANDT PARKS
24 BAILEY AVENUE
34 163 STREET CROSSTOWN
35 167 STREET CROSSTOWN
37 OGDEN AVENUE
38 UNIVERSITY AVENUE
41 WEBSTER AVENUE WHITE PALINS ROAD
WEST FARMS DEPOT
4600-4663 111CC-D51 Flxible
6514-6619 TDH 5303
6876-6897 TDH 5303
8301-8303 TDH 5303
ASSIGNED TO ROUTES:
25 MORRIS AVENUE
26 BOSTON ROAD & MORRIS PARK AVENUE
27 CLASON POINT
28 WILLIAMSBRIDGE
29 WILLIS AVENUE
31 SOUTHERN AVENUE
32 ST. ANN'S AVENUE
33 138 STREET CROSSTOWN
36 180TH STREET CROSSTOWN
42 WESTCHESTER AVENUE
More to come...
Thanks for the early rosters. I never knew that the old Bx4 had operated out of Kingsbridge. For as long as i could remember (mid 70's) it was operating out of Coliseum.
Wayne
Here are two more depot rosters from 1970...
12 Street Depot
3488-3555 TDH 5303
assigned to the following routes:
12 Spring and Delancey Streets
14A 14 St. Crosstown via Avenue A
14D 14 St. Crosstown via Avenue D
146 Street Depot
5201-5245 TDH 5303
5453-5515 TDH 5303
6701-6735 TDH 5303
8696-8780 TDH 5303
assigned to the following routes:
1 Fourth & Madison Avenues
2A FIFTH-Madison & Seventh Avenues
7 Broadway-Columbus & Lenox Avenues
10 Eighth Avenue
20 116 Street Crosstown
TB Triborough Bridge
Enjoy!
Heres another posting...
COLISEUM DEPOT
3352-3356 TDH 5303
3358-3433 TDH 5303
4664-4727 111CC-D51
6653-6700 TDH 5303
6778-6795 TDH 5303
6898-6900 TDH 5303
8304-8307 TDH 5303
assigned to the following routes:
5 Bruckner Blvd. (and 5A)
7 Boston Road
8 Williamsbridge Road
9 Eastchester Road
12 Fordham-City Island (and 12A, 12B)
13 Castle Hill Avenue
14 Edenwald Avenue (and 14A)
15 Gun Hill Road
15A Hillside Homes (and 15B)
16 Webster Avenue
17 Allerton Avenue
18 Macomb's Road
22 Country Club
23 Crosby-Layton
40 Tremont Avenue
49 Highbridge
AMSTERDAM DEPOT
3434-3446 TDH 5303
6620-6641 TDH 5303
8376-8470 TDH 5303
assigned to the following routes:
30 149 Street Crosstown
100 Broadway Kingsbridge
104 Broadway
Thanks for all the old oa rosters.I need to know two things;
What year were the following buses manufactured?;
TDH 5303 #5000'S
TDH 5303 #3000'S(EX-5 AV COACH)
ANDY/ULMER PARK
I don't know for sure, but I'd guess the TDH-5303 (5000 units) were built in 1963 (or 1964).
My understanding that the ex Fifth Ave Coach fishbowls were TDH-5301's. I thought that the TDH-5303 (3300-3500) were purchased new for MABSTOA.
Wayne
The first 5303s came off the GMC Line in Dec 1962, who they went to I do not know, but anytime after that.
TDH 5303 5201-5525 1964
TDH 5303 3301-3555 1963 (Purchased by MaBSTOA)
TDH 5301 3100/3200's 1959/60 (EX 5 Av./ Surface Transit)
Here is the final depot roster for MaBSTOA during February 15, 1970
100 Street Depot
3473-3487 TDH 5303
5353-5452 TDH 5303
6831-6875 TDH 5303
8471-8545 TDH 5303
assigned to the following routes:
6 72 Street Crosstown
17 79 Street Crosstown
18 86 Street Crosstown
19 96 Street Crosstown
101 Third-Lexington & Amsterdam Avenues
101A Third-Lexington & Lenox Avenues
107 106 Street Crosstown
as i sit and wait with everyone here on a potential strike, i plan not to be trying to get to work if there is one. Id be afraid of riding private bus lines for fears of something happening while on the bus or taking 2 hours or more trying to get to work and then repeating it comning home. It's not worth the hassle. Id be upset losing pay for days not working(as the ta would, though i do not lose 2 days for each day you dont work), but my life is more important. I hope you guys dont strike, but i think it will come down to the wire on tuesday night if there is one.
p.s. anyone ride buses and trians and notice them going slooower then usual today?
"p.s. anyone ride buses and trians and notice them going slooower then usual today?"
Hmm... mine went faster today.
We've all argued on here, and I've called the TA workers strike certain words that perhaps are a bit extreme, such as the word terrorism. If the strike only lasts one to two days, hopefully, the damage shouldn't be that large. Because I realize that weather can cause interruptions of our transit system (such as snow, ice, and flood). I still don't want a strike to happen, but the strike is a result of what is happening to blue collar workers in this city.
Salary does not keep up with the cost of living, which has rose astronomically in the past few years as NYC "boomed".
The problem is, that our MTA subway and bus workers have not gotten most of the money from our boom. Also left out are many other blue collar, middle income workers across the city, and the many low wage
workers, many of whom are immigrants who work in the most horrible conditions.
The richest people, those at the top income brackets, like our city and MTA leaders are making 30% more, which is alot more because of their huge salary. It is not unfair that TA workers get a raise of near that amount, since it is only fair workers share in the wealth of the MTA.
The media does not mention exactly why TA workers are angry, trying to dodge the real issues. Why? Because the same issues that affect the TA workers affect alot of us. Most jobs don't give that much more to most workers to compensate for the high cost of living here. Instead all our money winds up with wealthy politicians, cronies, and corporate banks. That ridiculous fee to withdraw money from ATM's is a good example of that.
While I don't support shutting down the city's transit system, I am beginning to understand why so many workers are angry. Driving a bus and operating a train require alot of responsibility, and are full of stress. Considering the importance of the job, the workers deserve much more than what they get.
But when other people who make much more than you take credit, then add 30% to their already bloated salary, that would get me very angry.
While so many people of this city suffer, our mayor's wife goes shopping at Roosevelt Field with a 10 car security force, buying fancy goods at stores like Nordstrom.
The wealthy gain more while everyone else gets less (after expenses), and I for one am sick of it. And unfortunately with so much anger, striking is forced in a large part by the arrogance of the MTA, and the unwillingness of the media to listen to how the workers feel.
Lets just hope that a strike is averted for the many working people in this city (including transit workers), and if it comes to a strike, that it will be brief but get the message across to the MTA.
Good luck to everyone, and pray that the city keeps moving......
I have to admit, this is a bit selfish, but I want the TWU to strike because of two words: school closings. If you were a kid, you'd aggree with me.
"I have to admit, this is a bit selfish, but I want the TWU to strike because of two words: school closings."
I feel the same way. I was upset when the mayor announced the next day was going to be normal. However, I only wanted a one day strike because beyond that, even with the two hour delay, I would have to pay $1.50 to get stuck on the Gowanus Expressway.
The 400s due in fact have two gas tanks on top vs. the 500s having three slightly smaller ones, BUT we're not having any problem with the gas delivery system on the bus despite what a driver may have told you.
The only thing we're working on is a low battery problem. The CNGs have a LOT of safety equip. that draws power & must be left on all the time, so if the bus sits for a few days it may give us a problem. We are working on a work-around & expect to solve this problem soon.
Mr t__:^)
Does this explain the differing capacities of the 400 and 500 CNG b uses? I noticed the 400's can seat 43 and have 22 standees; the 500's can seat 43 and stand 12.
[Does this explain the differing capacities of the 400 and 500 CNG b uses? I noticed the 400's can seat 43 and have 22 standees; the 500's can seat 43 and stand 12.]
You guys are just too smart ... yep, that's the reason !
BTW, Thanks for bringing up the question, so that I now know this !
Mr t_:^)
where was the old coliseum depot before it closed and where is the new one going to be?????
The old depot was right off of Tremont Avenue below the Cross Bronx Expressway. The New Depot is gonna be in the same spot!
To get there take a Q44, Bx21, Bx40/42, Bx36, Bx9 Bus or the 2 & 5 train to the E. Tremont Ave/West Farms Station.
Trevor
Go to item number 210982796 in E-Bay to find an interesting view.
It is an iterior shot of bus number 1505. This is a New York City Omnibus Yellow Coach model 731.
Please remember that E-Bay keeps the photo available for a short period of time after the auction has ended, so if you are interested you better do it like now!
Also, notice the asking price and the lack of buyers!
I usually take the N21 to Flushing. Will Long Island Bus still run buses into Queens? Will Queens buses out of Casey Stengal run?
I hear that Queens MTA buses are under a different contract, as well as LI Bus. Will they go out on strike?
I'll need to get to Flushing, Queens Thursday or Friday, if there's a strike will LI Bus terminate before the city line like a driver told me? Then I guess I'd have to catch the train at Great Neck or Port Washington, but not at rush hour since Flushing LIRR trains won't stop there.
WCBS 880: "No deal. We were very close but management backed off. We have no deal." Willie James.
CBS also quoted the mayor as believing a strike is now very likely.
We'll just wait till 12:01 and see. I'm afraid that there will be one.
MM2000
At 12:30am MTA is still runnings. Member of MTA & Union are talking thought all night until in the morning. So what next???
Peace Out
Dave Meaney
It is official. Around 2 am (I was not up) they reached a deal. Either 5,3,and 4 or 5.4,and 4
Why was strike call off. I would like to know what facts or issuses ,you use to even try to strike.
This morning along Queens Blvd, I saw bus 5503 with broken signs. The bus was dark in the front and on the side. I really hope that they're not taking the sign off of this bus. PLEASE remove the signs on these buses! They're horrible.
MM2000
This may have been mentioned before, but there's a 1995 Orion V #448 on Westchester County's Bee-Line System with LEDs for a front destination sign (yellow-green, not orange.) So far as I've noticed, it's the only one with LEDs on the Bee-Line. I saw it on the 25 line at Yonkers RR station for the first time this morning. I doubt if the sign is new because more than a few of the individual LEDs looked to be non-functional.
To Trevor,
I am very much interested in the Department of Buses & I know that you get your resources from them but the reason that I am posting this messege to you is because I'm so tired of people on this bustalk talking about the possibility of Crosstown Bus Depot reopening as a bus depot. I mean, what is going on, is Crosstown going to reopen or what because I don't want busbuffs to keep talking about this subject so many times on bustalk.
I would like to know if you can bring us all up-to-date about the possibility of Crosstown Bus Depot reopening, is there a study going on & when do you expect to have an answer from the Department of Buses on Crosstown reopening & if it does reopen, where will the painting facility be relocated to.
Sincerely,
Michael
The only thing slated to open in the Immediate future is the Maspeth Facility and probably the Coliseum Depot (BX)
I saw the Postings in the MTA Board Notes
Like I stated before, there is talks about Crosstown reopening, Nothing is carved in stone or written in a plan yet!!!!
There is just talks, so as of right now, Crosstown will remain a Re-Paint Shop until further notice of my sources out at D-of-B!
I WILL keep this board posted on this subject as information is given to me!
Trevor
I will be in NYC from the evening of the 19th until midday on the 23rd. I will be on the M79, M4, M104 and M10.
When should I expect to see artics on the M79 during that time?
Thanks.
Artics are running on the M79, to my knowledge, like wildcats, SO press your luck, believe, YOU'LL GET LUCKY!
Trevor
How about a nice ride on the QM2 or QM2A from 6th Ave, over the Queensboro Bridge, and out Northern Blvd. to Linden & Whitestone Expressway where you can change to the Q25 which will take you the Main Street. There you can switch to a steel tired Red Bird and a lovely ride back to Times Square ????
Mr t__:^)
You probably shouldn't have to wait more than 10 or 15minutes during mid-day for an artic on the M79. There are about 3 or 4 covering the route on any given day.
Enjoy your visit,
Chuck
just got in the mail a 2000 year MTA-NYC Bus Calender. Didnt know i was on a mailing list, but this i like. it lists every incident that happened with buses, including dates of opening and closing of depots. also shows 12 great pictures, including the wheelchair activation on the MCI. Anyone knows how to buy one of this let me know and how i got this is still a mystery to me
I would like to know where I can get one too
signed ,,Steve
I would like to know where to get a few of these calenders also. Please leave me email with a number or contact person
I would like this calendar also. Please email me the details how to get it. Thank you.
MM2000
You can get this from the same persons who do the Insiders Guide
1---888==692 8287
Steve
Has anybody ever driven or ridden the turn the M9 makes at Rugters and East Broadway? First, in the right lane on Rugters Street (lane bus stop is in), there's just this barrier at the end of the lane there so you have to go around it. Then, on East Boradway, there's a one-lane road both directions for about two yards, so you gotta make a tight turn. If you didn't know the route, you'd probably think the driver was gonna make a left turn.
According to a prevision in the tenitive contract, states that the TA will study a takeover of the private (DOT) bus lines. With the help of the state ond the city I guess. What do you all thike about this. If you want to read the contract it's available at 1010win.com
The way I read that provision, the study is about combining TA and MaBSTOA, not about integrating DOT buses into the NYCT system.
David
[According to a prevision in the tenitive contract, states that the TA will study a takeover of the private (DOT) bus lines. With the help of the state ond the city I guess. What do you all thike about this. If you want to read the contract it's available at 1010win.com]
The contract stupliates that a study be held that will merge the TA Bus Division(Brooklyn,Queens,Staten Island and 126th St-Manhattan) and the Manhattan and Bronx Surfice Transit Operating Authority into one unit. This has been rumored for several years with the target date was when all Tier I drivers and maintance staff have retired which should be very shortly.
It has nothing to do with the private companies.
I'm sorry I must of misunderstood the stipulation. Thank you for the correct interpetations.
They have been talking about that since the bankrupcity of 5th Ave Lines in the 60s
Somebody please clear something up for me if they would. Is the TA and MaBSTOA two sperate bus divisions? I thought there was just one dept. of buses in the NYC Transit Authority? Could somebody clear this up for me?
There is one NYC Transit Department of Buses, which oversees all TA and MaBSTOA bus service. For purposes of labor agreements, pensions, etc., however, TA and MaBSTOA are separate corporate entities.
David
[Somebody please clear something up for me if they would. Is the TA and MaBSTOA two sperate bus divisions? I thought there was just one dept. of buses in the NYC Transit Authority? Could somebody clear this up for me?]
The TA came out of the old Board of Transportation the MAbsota Cane out of the Fifth Ave Coach Lines, which was the Old private Companies of the 5th Ave, NYC Omnibus, Surface(3rd Ave Railway) which was Bankrupted from a Strike in the Early to Mid 60s. So the contracts and Unions were different
There are two agency in new york city. One is MaBSTOA (Manhattan & Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority) expect 126th street Depot & other is TA (Transit Authority). There is only one Dept. of Buses & the office is in ENY Depot. Ohh i forget MaBSTOA is a private agency.
Peace Out
Dave Meaney
Dave, you mean it is Private Agency, not owned by any Govt like Green Bus Lines, Triboro etc, ? Or did you meant it is a seperate agency from the TA, but still controlled by the MTA?
The second one. MaBSTOA is a part of the MTA, but NOT part of the NYCTA, as far as 'paper' goes. Presently, MaBSTOA is d/b/a MTA-NYC Bus. It's all complicated, legal crap.
-Hank
That's very interesting ... the MTA & mayor just had a gun to their head and are willing to consider making the seperate divisions within the TA more unified. Sounds like they should fall on their sword !
Mr t__:^)
Well, hasn't Rudy shown us how 'bad' he is? All he has to do is slap them with some million dollar injunction if they don't like it. He'll probably say "What'cha gonna do about it?"
Actually isn t the MTA a State Agency, not a city one, and Rudy has only a minority say in it. The people can always say. You want to be Senator, ha, ha, ha, not with our votes
That is true & George hand picked Virgial Conway for the job. Mr t__:^)
Here are the rosters for two NYCTA depots. Circa 1980...
FLATBUSH DEPOT:
8071-8099 TDH 5303
8110-8120 TDH 5303
6000-6021 T6H 5309A
7500-7586 53102-6-1
126 STREET DEPOT:
8001-8013 TDH 5303
8100-8109 TDH 5303
8121-8202 TDH 5303
9095-9099 53102-6-1
9110-9129 53102-6-1
EDGEWATER DEPOT:
8801-8805 T6H 5305A
6107-6170 T6H 5310A
6181-6199 T6H 5310A
5329-6349 T6H 5309A
6901-6932 T6H 5310A
6948 T6H 5310A
FLUSHING DEPOT:
4484-4496 T6H 5305A
7099-7154 53102-6-1
7175-7204 53102-6-1
FRESH POND DEPOT:
6022-6106 T6H 5309A
7587-7634 53102-6-1
7645-7659 53102-6-1
Flatbush still had one or two 5000 Flxibles through that year.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the following never made it to Fresh Pond:
7596,7601,7638,7656-7659.
6024,6026,6057-6059,6061-6063,6065,6067,6069-6072,6074-6075,6077,6084-6085,6087-6088,6090,6107.(6108 was there maybe later than 1980)
The following were also at Fresh Pond around 1980 (Among others):
1963 TDH 5303: 3721,3788,3777,3895,3602,3844,3877
1961 TDH 5301: 1057,1060,1070,1081
1964 TDH 5303: 5270 (MaBSTOA) saw this only once
Based on the vauge memories i have of that time period,i would tend
to agree with your fresh pond roster.i was a frequent rider of the
B58 at the time and remember seeing 3000's,8000's,7000's,6000's,etc
i remember a real mixed bag of buses running down corona av at that
time.i'm also pretty sure that 6000-6099 were always in flatbush
(i began working as an operator there in 1982)
ANDY/ULMER PARK
If I remember correctly also FLU had a large fleet of 5600/5700 Flexibles also around the same time.I remember this by taking them on the Q44 to JHS218(now queens College Law School).That and they had 6204 also
Also 6311 and 7600/9000's flexibles-Flu was a large flexible gararge before the Grumman/RTS arrivals
A few things before I post more rosters.
My roster for 1980 shows 59 Flxibles, series 5001-5165, based at Flatbush. However, no actual numbers are given.
To Andy/Ulmer Park... you gave agreat answer to Jesse James.
I was going to answer the question about the Fifth Aveneu Coach TDH 5301s but thanks to B53 Rich for answering the question
BTW, Andy, do you have an e-mail address? Let me know (email me, don't post it.)
Regarding the 1980 rosters. Please remember that many buses were moved during the 12 months of the year 1980. So, perhaps some buses were based at a given depot for a short period while others, listed, never made it to that depot.
ULMER PARK DEPOT
4300-4325 T6H 5305A
4346,4364,
4366,4386,
4388-4391 T6H 5305A
4456-4483 T6H 5305A
8845-8850 T6H 5305A
8858-8871 T6H 5305A
8879-8893 T6H 5305A
FIFTH AVENUE DEPOT
4000-4115 111CC-D51
6933-6947 T6H 5310A
6949-6956 T6H 5310A
9043-9094 53102-6-1
CROSSTOWN DEPOT
8014-8070 TDH 5303
9022-9042 53102-6-1
EAST NEW YORK
4116-4202 111CC-D51
9000-9021 53102-6-1
Sorry, but my NYCTA roster does not include the route assignments.
I agree;there had to be some flexes there at that time.I was dating
my wife in 1981(she lived in canarsie)and i remember seeing 5000's
on rockaway parkway(B42).Alas,they were all gone when i got to
flatbush in november 1982.I did,however,get to drive their close
cousins,the 4000's(69 flex).flatbush used them in 1985-86 while
their 6000's were being rebuilt into blitz buses.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
Here are the rosters for two more NYCTA depots
JAMAICA
8806-8814 T6H 5305A
6200-6328 T6H 5309A
QUEENSVILLAGE
4326-4345 T6H 5305A
4347-4363 T6H 5305A
4365 T6H 5305A
4367-4385 T6H 5305A
4387 T6H 5305A
4392-4455 T6H 5305A
6172-6180 T6H 5310A
7155-7174 53102-6-1
7635-7644 53102-6-1
9100-9109 53102-6-1
I believe FLU had GM T6H-5309A 6200-6229.
Wayne
Yes 6200-6229 were at FLU, but they were moved to JAM (along with most of the other 6200 and 6300's from SI) in 1980. I forgot the exact month, but it was 1980.
I know that you have a good memory what ran back in 1980, but why would we want a roster of what ran then? Sure, you guys remember riding on the fishbowls and they were a great batch of buses, but they were sent to the scrapper a while ago. Buses that were JUST sent to storage and remembering seeing them on a certain line or route everyday, now that's a different story. But this is almost 20 years ago. Time to get used to the new stuff cause the old is getting to be extinct. Ex: GMC'S at QS. 30 are left running. All will be gone once the rest of the local CNG'S arrive.
MTA: All GMC'S below #4218 (except for a few but will be reitred from MTA service) will be gone.
Want old equipment: GL has 1979 RTS still running and the MTA has retired everything from 1981. They only have from 1982 and up but they're next to be extinct (the 1982 group).
Peace to All!
JJ
Pardon us old bus operators;we like to remember the old days when
there was such a wide variety of ta and oa buses.It was and is a
part of our lives and it gives us a sense of history.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
Saw an article in Tuesday Newsday by Sylvia Adcock that states that one of the ways County Exec. Tom Gulotta plans to close his budget gap is to provide less money to LI Bus (they get money from NYS, MTA, Nassau County & farebox). LI Bus Pres, Neil Yellin said this would result in reduced service (increased gaps between buses) as well as route eliminations. The farebox contributes about 40 % of the cost.
Yellin wants to put Tom on the hot seat by stating that Tom should decide where the cuts should occur at LI Bus.
BTW, these weren't the only cuts is services that Tom proposed.
Mr t__:^)
Are you kidding? The service sucks as it is, with one hour headways on most routes! Boy, LI Bus really does treat it's customers like garbage. Perhaps if there are cuts, LI Bus drivers should STRIKE!
BUT just look at the area they cover with a fleet that is just under the size of Queens Surface ! AND many of the coaches in their fleet are specials, i.e. Access-A-Ride.
I think there is a lot of potential for improving bus service in Nassau County and this action doesn't help. Case in point, I was shopping on Old Country Road last night, just past Roosevelt Field. The parking lots were filled to the brim. Looked to me like they could have used a few more buses.
Mr t__:^)
A bus driver I spoke to yesterday said that there's no way they can cut service, since LI Bus ridership is up 10% within the last year.
If they cut service, there will be severe crowding on some routes.
Personally, I don't know how or even if they can get away with cutting service. They will have to get the money from somewhere, possibly by increasing the fare, or from the state. To be fair, how about having a transit tax for everybody who drives to Roosevelt Field?
Since there is so much $$ spent in that mall, I don't see a problem with a small percent of it going toward better transit in the county.
Unfortunately though, all the yuppies who shop and drive there, as well as our stupid county government, probably won't see it that way and make LI Bus riders inconvieninced at least, and worse for the drivers, I presume alot would lose their jobs if there were cuts.
Well if there are cuts the drivers should go out on strike. They don't have a contract, and the working conditions are bad. The geniuses at scheduling allow a lay-over time of 5 to 10 minutes on most routes, and if you're driving the N21 or N27, which are always late, guess what, there goes you're break!
They don't have enough buses. The N20/21 route is a nightmere weekday and mornings and afternoons, buses run late and then get more load, and run even later. It's very crowded, making all stops, and the traffic is terrible. And in summertime when there are alot of breakdowns they run out of buses, I've even seen a few times this year their GMC RTS in revenue service, as well as a Flxible Flyer and Thomas Bus.
If they do cuts, riding LI Bus is gonna be hell, and I just might have to find another way of getting around.
[Personally, I don't know how or even if they can get away with cutting service ...]
[If they do cuts, riding LI Bus is gonna be hell, and I just might have to find another way of getting
around ...]
John, I don't disagree with any of what you said. That's probally why LIBus Pres. Neil Yellin wants the politicians to decide which routes to cut service on or eliminate. Besides the $7M cut at LI Bus Gulotta also proposed $9.8M to other agencies. Somehow Nassau has to come up with $115M to fill the hole. The Democrats don't want to raise taxes to fix the problem, because the Republicans will use that issue to get right back into power.
Mr t__:^)
Its known as balancing the budget on the back of the city. Nassau is probably hoping that the MTA will divert money from the city to cover LI Bus. And they probably have a good shot.
Let's face it, aside from bus to subway routes and subway to bus routes out to the suburbs, the buses just aren't as central to the economy as the trains, in the city or suburbs. Most Nassau residents have cars -- the buses just take elderly and teens to the mall. Tom probably figures that the real losers will be city residents commuting to suburban jobs, so why not have the city pay for it?
I have a better idea. Why not have the businesses (and their taxes) move to the city, where city residents can have a shorter commute?
lightrale sucks butty cheeks
[Let's face it, aside from bus to subway routes and subway to bus routes out to the suburbs, the buses just aren't as central to
the economy as the trains, in the city or suburbs. Most Nassau residents have cars -- the buses just take elderly and teens to
the mall. ]
Elderly and teens are not what is common on my crowded bus routes like the N21,N23,and N27. What is common is low wage resteruant workers and servants, usually hispanic and coming from Queens, Glen Cove, or Hempstead. This is the population that will suffer real bad if LI Bus cuts service, because they don't have any other way around.
Most Nassau residents do have (and prefer) cars, and that is exactly the problem because many congested areas like the HUB (area around Roosevelt Field-Garden City, Mineola and Hempstead) have gridlock conditions on weekday rush hours and during Saturdays.
The non-caring attitude about mass transit and those who need it contributes to why these cuts happen, and why the plight of LI Bus riders is ignored.
If they cut LI Bus routes, I may be considering a move to Queens in the near future. Nassau is one screwed up county, and if people don't want to fix it, you won't see me sitting in this traffic jam of a county a few years from now. I already sit in it around Roosevelt Field and Great Neck, and when I'm on that westbound N21, we actually make better speed once we get out of the Great Neck gridlock and into Queens, where there seems to be LESS traffic than in Nassau. I am running out of patience with the horrible traffic in this county!
[Elderly and teens are not what is common on my crowded bus routes like the N21,N23,and N27. What is common is low wage resteruant workers and servants ...]
John, I agree with you, but don't let Larry get your goat. He just loves to start a debate. He has lots of details at his disposal, so exchanging with him can become quite informative. But look out because once he sets the hook he'll reel you in
Mr t__:^)
Yes its true that, in addition to elderly and teens you have low wage restaurant workers. Perhaps that's the majority now. And that's exactly why Gullotta want to cut them, especially if the low-wage workers come from Queens.
Perhaps the city could agree to have NYCTA buses run express from the Nassau border to employment centers like Roosevelt Field. It would be funny if working class people from Hempstead and Roosevelt lost their jobs because of such a cut, and were replaced by people from Queens.
Typical. Who do the suburbs stick it to? Businesses and the poor.
[Yes its true that (typical LI Bus riders are) ... elderly ... teens ... low wage restaurant workers ... And that's exactly why Gullotta want to cut them, especially if the low-wage workers come from Queens.]
Larry my friend, I think you're taking this out of context. The proposed $7M cut is about 8% of their $84M budget. What is interesting is that Neil Yellin (LI Bus Pres.) orig. got $20.7 of the $26M he requested in subsidy. Also on the news today is Golotta's demanad of employees about give backs.
My point is that the county is trying to fix the budget hole, and it's not going to come only out of money given to LI Bus.
Mr t__:^)
This is a sore point.
New York City is expected to kick in local tax money for the TA, but suburban counties don't contribute a dime to the commuter railroads.
The answer I've gotten from the MTA, and its a fair answer as far as it goes, is that the rail lines are paid for by the state, and local governments help with the more deeply subsidized bus lines. So (if they were separate) the city has to subsidize the bus, and so do Nassau and Westchester.
Nassau is knocking out 1/3 of its contribution. That's a lot.
[New York City is expected to kick in local tax money for the TA, but suburban counties don't contribute a dime to the commuter railroads.]
Larry, I got you again ... back in April Tom & Virgial inked an agreement for Nassau to get a loan from the MTA for the portion of the money Nassau owed toward the new LIRR cars ... $140M ... remember ?
Mr t__:^)
(LIRR Cars)
I thought that money was for buses, but perhaps I was wrong. Bottom line is, there have got to be more places to cut than the transit system. They should start with the relatives.
BTW -- I'll be shocked if that money is ever paid back. It will be paid back when the state elects to give NYC the $1 billion in school aid it decided not to pay back in the recession.
I saved a copy of the April 27th article ...
"In return for a one-time cash payment of $70M from the MTA, the county would borrow $140M for the agency to purchase 25 new electric passenger cars or 3 dual-mode engines & 30 dbl-decker coach cars ... 25 year bonds ... add about $100M to total cost ... untimately cost Nassau $240M ...
[Bottom line is, there have got to be more places to cut than the transit system. They should start with the relatives.]
I was pleased to see all those high ranking staff/friends of Golotta leave office ... was like rats deserting a sinking ship, but was too little too late. Guess Tom thought he'ld be able to continue to apply band-aids to the county problem & still keep spending and spending.
Mr t__:^)
New Flyer Artic now running on the Bx1. Bus #5254, seen Tuesday night.
Lookin good, with its blue interior back wall ( above rear seats ).
J C
Some of older Articulated have blue interior back wall too & MTA replace it early this year. Before it used to have a Black. Kingsbridge Depot is borrowing New Flyer Articulated #5254 for while. Gun Hill Depot getting #5250-#5286 & #5320-#5402. Kingsbridge Depot getting #5287-#5319 & #5403-#5509.
Peace Out
Dave Meaney
That 'blue' is actually industrial carpeting, which acts as an iunsulator, and a scratchitti deterrent. Of course, it's only a matter of time before it gets covered in soda and gum. And let's hope it won't melt if someone decides to put a lighter too it, like the plexiglass windows on the SIRT cars used to.
-Hank
As a Bronx boy, I appreciate this info on the new Artics. Best get that 5254 in Kingsbridge while we can.
Thanx, Dave Meaney.
I'm from the UK and during my time here in NY I've noticed a difference in bus etiquette from that in the UK that quite amuses me. I always thought that New Yorkers were always in a hurry but some of the etiquette contrast below actually tend to slow things down. For those who are interested here are some noticable cultural contrasts in bus etiquette between the UK and NY:
1. Many passengers prefer to stand in the aisles even when there are sufficient seats towards the rear of the bus? This strikes me as odd - in the UK people normally scramble for any available seats and prefer not to stand when possible.
2. When a bus is approaching a bus stop at which no one is alighting, passengers who want the bus to stop don't usually indicate to the bus driver - sorry bus opertaor! - through a gesture of some kind that they actually want the bus to stop. It amuses me that people will stand expressionless and seemingly dissinterested when their bus approaches. This means that the driver can not easily distinguish between those wanting to board the bus and those that don't thereby necessitating the bus to stop unnecessarily in many cases . In the UK passengers always use a hand gesture or body language to let the driver know our intentions thereby preventing needless and time wasting false stops.
3. In NY many people exit through the front doors and not the back thereby often prolonging time spent by the bus at bus stops as passengers are slowed down in boarding. In the UK people mainly use the rear doors for exiting where there is a rear door that is but in any case the front doors are usually wide enough to permit passengers to exit and board the bus at the same time.
Any comments would be welcome
I think the reason why so many people exit through the front door is that they don't know about the air-assist feature of the rear door, in which the passenger presses the yellow tape on the rear door that opens the door pnuamatically (sp?) and holds it open. I often see people manually pushing open the doors, which are heavy and cumbersome, and slam shut. If only they paid attention to the yellow tape right in front of them, that would solve a lot of frustration. All buses from 1983 to the present have air assist doors.
Before that, the doors simply unlocked and the passenger had to push it open manually ("Passenger Operated Safety Exit Door"). Thing is, the doors on the old Flixbles, GMC's and Grummans were light and could be pushed open effortlessly. The rear doors on the RTS are a bitch to push open, and the 1981 and 1982 models didn't have air assist doors. Why they weren't retrofitted with them later on is beyond me.
I remember those and I hated them. I haven's seen them around for a while now, though. It took so long to open them and held everyone up. Often had to get help.
Yeah I hate it when someone in front of you pushes the doors open - even when they MUST realise that the doors are air assisted - and then the doors slam into the person exiting behind them. Its a pretty stupid thing to do ( unless it substitutes for going to the gym that day)and is similar to the phenomonen where people think that by push an elevator call button more than once will make the elevator arrive more quickly - as I said stupid!
To solve this, the doors are to be made HEAVIER
I think that in most cities in the US, passengers use the front door for both boarding and departing especially in the suburban areas (outside of city limits). I'm sure I'll be corrected however. LOL.
I know in Pittsburgh, where I'm from, the passengers board and exit from both the center and front doors at the same time in the downtown area (from first morning run to 7pm). It can be confusing if your not used to the routine. It's a hold over from the days of the streetcars when the trolleys had wide front and center doors and could easily accomodate this type of situation.
The most structured and organized city I've personally experienced for passenger boarding and departing is up in Toronto and second place was Dayton.
RDChilds
Mention of this really prompted me to write, to me it’s staggering how in such a big city with so many people that people don’t follow certain etiquettes that make it so much easier to get around, such as:
-The mentioned getting out of the rear door,
-Walking up the “right” side of stairs and footpaths (Right depends on which country you are from)
-Waiting until other people have exited the bus or train before trying to barge you way in
-Getting your metro card, change, token out before the bus comes
Any comments on why New Yorkers can’t get it together to make life easier for each other?
"-Getting your metro card, change, token out before the bus comes"
If there are little or no other people on the bus, especailly at a teminal, it's not too nessecary.
Interesting observations, all of which I agree with.
From my own experience, I rarely sit down on a bus. I'm a 33 year old man who sits most of the day at the office. If I were sitting down on a crowded bus and a person boarded who I felt needed the seat more than I did (and just about everyone fits that category) I would give it up. Since most bus lines I ride are usually fairly crowded, I pretty much assume that the bus will be full soon. So I don't even bother sitting down since I expect to be standing again soon.
One reason that you may notice New York bus riders not falling into the New Yorker in a hurry stereotype is that the demographics of bus riders (higher concentrations of the elderly, school children, women who are afraid to ride the subway -- note this applies more to Manhattan than the boroughs) conspire to slow things down. It becomes inevitable that bus rides are slow. Simply put, we don't expect our buses to be fast -- so we don't worry that we're slowing them down.
Chuck
Hi. I was wondering if you guys knew any info about any new or old buses. If so, could you please give me that info, and describe that bus intricate as possible (in great detail?) I am writing a term paper and i need to show how the modern buses compare to the older buses and how the modern buses are more advanced and what technological features they each have? Also, if you have the website to New Yorks public transit authority, Please email it to me. Just click on my name.I would be extremely grateful. Thanks. Bye, now!
www.mta.nyc.ny.us
the nyc transit authority main web page
Does anyone have a list of the various support vehicles used by the MTA? Such as wreckers, service trucks etc. Also is it true that although the MTA maintains there bus fleet that as far as small vehicles goes that they contract that part of it out?
I need the 1980 bus rosters with the routes asssigned to Ulmer Park, Fifth Av & Crosstown Bus Depots in Brooklyn.
Queens Surface Corporation now has a Web Page. Woopie !
Now don't get too excited because you'll only find our Express schedule there right now. The Local version will be added in the next couple of days, then who know maybe other goodies.
We're happy to join NY Bus Service, Green Bus, Jamaica Bus, Triboro Coach & Command on the internet ! If you haven't taken a look at Green, Jamaica, & Triboro recently let me tell you that they each added some history text to some fine photos of their equipment.
We have one item they don't ... a hot link to our e-mail address. So if you want to contact us call 718-445-3100 or e-mail (business related questions please) at info@qsbus.com.
This is an unofficial anouncement from a employee of same.
Mr t__:^)
All that effort to post an announcement about having a web page.....
.....and NO URL fr the web page. So, guess they won't get any hits
from BusTalk people!
Did you try the obvious www.qsbus.com? It's the domain name on the email address, which is always a good place to start when trying to find a corporate website.
-Hank
That's it. I've been there & sent a test e-mail via hot link.
It's a starting place for QSC to build on (I hope).
Mr t__:^)
I am looking for a set of busoramas for a NYCTA bus that I am restoring here in CA. I have searched most of the areas here and cannot find anything or many people that even remember what they were. I would appreciate any info that any of you guys may have. I will definately make it worth the effort to locate a set. Please Email me or you can call my office at (909) 684-5926
Scott,
One place you could try is Yankee Trails in the Albany, NY area. They had a bunch of GM & Flx buses using ad wings( busoramas) but that was sometime ago. Just a hunch, though.
Joe C
Does anyone have any pics of the following buses in my historic fleet?
AC Transit 708, Riverside Transit Agency (ca) 111, NYCTA 6149, NYBS 1322, Port Authority of NY&NJ 124, Everette Transit (ws) 2455, SCRTD 7728, LAMTA 5507, 2367, 2397, SCRTD 3008, Stockton Muni Ready Transit (ca) 1728, Dallas 120, OCTD 1010, OCTD 1910, Omni Trans (ca) 1014, Overlake Transit (wa) 40 and Peerless Stage Lines (ca) 364. All these buses are GM Fishbowls except 7728 (Grumman) 2363 & 2397 (gm old looks) and 1910 & 1014 are Flx new looks
Well, uh, I *HAD* photos of many of those buses. Thephoto collection migrated 80 miles south to Escondido, CA.
On my way to get some food, I saw the following buses on Penn Av and Linden Blvd. 802, 812, 821, 823, and 839. They were heading towards the Belt Pkwy. The leader of the group was making sure that he did not lose the other four buses. Where are these buses going? I think that they were going to the Command facility to refuel.
BTW, I am back in NYC.
B46M Limited
They were going to Command to get fueled. Jackie Gleason has been doing this for the last three weeks. The Fuel system at JG was closed after a leek was found in it. Command takes there buses in first to be fueled and when there is room in the station then they take a TA bus. Last night one of Command fuels station went down so the TA buses sat untill 3:00am befor they got fueled. One driver I know told me he waited 7 1/2 hours before they got to his bus. In total he got 9 1/2 hours Overtime for doing this.
Another HOT TO DEATH update at TransiTALK!
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk/NYCTransit.html
Have a blessed one!
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Founder/Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
I would like to know what bus rosters did the JFK Express shuttle bus used between 1978 until 1990, how many buses were used & what depot did the JFK Express shuttle bus come out of.
Sincerely,
Michael
When I rode the shuttle in 1979, the buses were in a bunch around 8850-8859. These were T6H5305A's with batwings.
After those 8800's went away, I remember RTS 1318 on into the 1320 series used on that service. All assigned to ENY. I believe they took out the first row of seats behind the driver for luggage space. When the service was discontinued, the buses had those seats replaced and the equipment transfered to local ENY service.
It was a split. ENY had half and i cant think of the other depot.At the end it was all RTS with a new look once in a while.
I think that these buses had lugage rack put in them so lugage would not take up flour space. Also I think ENY was the only depot that ran the JFK shuttle.
Out
Robert
I remember the dedicated RTS's from ENY. I never knew of this route being split with another depot. I do remember that the old Q49 was split between ENY and JAM.
Wayne
I was told by a driver out of eny that it was a spilt on it. It may be wrong.
The JFK Express Shuttle Bus first used 1968 GMC 8800 number buses that were convereted from Local service with racks for luggage. They remained on the route until the orginal 1981 RTS came on the property. The route was always a Brooklyn Division Route assigned to East New York Depot only
I need the early 1981 bus roster for all Brooklyn depots including Crosstown & Castleton depot on SI including the WMATA buses assigned to which of these depots & how many did each WMATA buses go to what depot.
Sincerely,
Michael
When diesels shutdown, a loud sound could usually heard. It sounds like a metal dropping sound. I heard this on transit buses. The 6V92TA and DD Series 50 also makes this noise prior to shutdown. Sounds like a counterweight of some sort.
Starting this week all Manhattan Road Control dispatchers have received new radios. The features included with these radios include the ability to call buses and dispatchers privately. Those of you with trunk scanners will notice the new ID numbers.
Today on the M102 I noticed RTS #4122 or 4163 I forget with the words New York City Police on the front fenders and NYPD on the rear A/C panel. Anyone know why?
Also, does anyone know if the over the road coaches will be used on the M98'a out of Westside depot?
Doubt it, but there is always a possibility. When brand NEW buses come into WS (not artics) they will probably be on the M98 phasing out 86xx's on the M98. Currently, 86xx's, 96xx's and 51xx's run on the M98. Any other bus would break down on Harlem River Drive, lol.
Peace Out
-Clayton
By 'over-the-road' coaches, do you mean the MCIs?
-Hank
I do remember once seeing an NYPD officer at the wheel of 4122. It's probably a bust bus of some sort and not in regular service.
I miss riding the 6000s buses. does anyone know where to go to buy a ho scale of this bus? I know where to go for a O scale of it, which includes the famous "bat wings" on it. If anyone knows, please send me the web address.
An HO scale version was made years ago, in England, by a company called "Pirate Models". When they first came out, they sold for $27.50. Nowadays, you may still be able to get one through the "Walthers" catalog in a model railroad store; the last time I looked, they were selling for nearly $70.00!!!!!
The kits are fairly decent -- they would depict the 6000 series GM New Looks very well, and DO include "batwings". The downside? The kits ARE difficult to paint and assemble. Someone with little or no modelling experience would be well-warned to avoid them.
There are also 1/50 scale (close to O scale, 1/48) available, but NO batwings. These would be the Corgi GM New Looks. They never painted them in NYCTA paint schemes, though I've done a few custom repaints myself.
I have seen a few of the new artics (5000 # series) running out of Gun Hill.
I noticed that they are sporting painted rims (as found on the older RTS's) instead of the shiny ones found on the older artic busses.
Is there a reason why they appear to have gone back to the original type of rims?
Heard that aluminum wheels are difficult to get off if the tire has to be replaced. They stick to it. This is why the 4900-5249 order got steel wheels. And I see some buses that should have aluminum wheels getting steel wheels: For Example: 7000, 7508 and 9600. Yet I see it the other way around too: 266, 8037, 8043.
MM2000
I HATE THE BLOODY THINGS!!!!!!!! (no i'm not english, my friend alex farrell from australia got me sayin it)
ENY's 8102, 8116(?) and 8127 have aluminum wheels, while many FLA 9300's and 9400's have the standard ones.
Aluminum wheels heat up faster than steel ones, and in the heavy stop-and-go that is the life of a city bus, it was discovered that the heat caused the wheels to expand (not new science) which resulted in the tires losing air, which in turn altered the perfomance of the bus under heavy braking.
-Hank
Saw her operating along Grand Ave with a new paintjob today. I can't figure this one out: 4089 was involved in an accident a few months ago. 4588 was in an accident a month ago. They keep a GMC over a TMC?! Go figure!
MM2000
Guess it's gonna get scrapped soon!
On the contrary. That bus is very popular in FP.I hope it was running on the Q58 when it was seen with 4212 not far behind!
4588 is a GMC as well...1986 was the last year for the GMC RTS, but the first for the RTS-06
I heard that within the 1st few months of 2000, QS and cTc will merge. All diesel buses will be out of cTc garage and anything CNG will operate out of QS. Actually, cTc will fold and it'll all become QS. Anybody can clarify this?
MM2000
If cTc is contemplating any kind of merger into QS, it seems silly that they've been repainting so many RTS's into the new cTc color scheme, which would disappear. However, short of a merger, it might make sense to make QS all CNG if cTc has very limited capacity for CNG buses.
Merger ... I realy dought it. Green, cTc, & Jamaica have old fleets that DOT has to do something about. So spin on that is probally what you've heard.
Mr t__:^)
I doubt that Queens Surfice and Triboro Coach will merege. If anything Queens Surfice will be taken over by the MTA
A couple of weeks ago I questioned Trevor about his seeing a Greyhound Van Hool. I just received the Dec 99 issue of Bus World, in which there was a 4 page article on Greyhound. In it Craig Lentzsch, President and CEO said that they run a few Van Hools in Vermont. I don't know who paid him off to say this so as to prove that I was wrong. I'd be curious to know if they run under Greyhound's colors or Vermont Transit's colors. This is the first time in my life that I am wrong. With a crud eating grin, I admit my error.
About time American bus riders got some European coaches. They are better in my sense because the passengers get a nice view of the road since they sit a level higher then the driver. Nice warm green nightlight too. Dash is more updated then MCI with seperate gauges for tag, front and drive axle pressure and a turbo boost gauge too.
Don't worry about making an error, you're only human.
Greyhound had some Van Hools out here on the west coast a year ago
during the busy season. They were leased buses, but a few did wear
the Greyhound color scheme as on their MC-12's and 102DL3's. Easy to apply and easy to remove, it's only decals.
They also ran some Dina Viaggio's (7000 series) and some leased 102DL3's (6000's, NOT the same ones they bought earlier this year).
Most of the leased buses come from R. & J. McMynn Leasing in Vancouver, British Columbia, which seems to be leasing to everyone out here in the west, too.
To Trevor,
I just recently read in the MTA 2000-2004 Capital Plan that there are plans to expand bus depot parking at four depots. I would like to know which four depots will have bus parking expansions & how many buses are planned to be parked at these depots.
Finally, in the MTA 2000-2004 Capital Plan, there are also plans to buy 104 Over-the-Road coaches, will the order be MCI or another bus builder & where will these buses be assigned to.
Sincerely,
Michael
Yes, expansions are planned for Yukon, Jamaica, Ulmer Park, and I believe Flatbush, Yukon through Ulmer is a definate, i don't know about Flatbush.
Well right now, one of the New Flyer D45S Vikings are here, I seen it in front of Transit Headquarter. So once the other 2 come in and the demostration is done, a decision will be made as to whether they will be MCI 102-DL3 Commuter Coaches or New Flyer D45S Coaches. 9 times out of 10 they will go to other Express Depots (i.e. Ulmer Park, Jackie Gleason, West Side).
Trevor
"9 times out of 10 they will go to other Express Depots (i.e. Ulmer Park, Jackie Gleason, West Side)."
Ughhh you just made me mad that I don't take the X25 anymore.
They won't go to Gleason. As of the Winter 2000 Pick (effective January 16, 2000 unless things change), the X27 goes back to Ulmer Park (along with the X27's piece of the X25 -- let's not get into THAT again).
David
[Well right now, one of the New Flyer D45S Vikings are here, I seen it in front of Transit Headquarter. So once the other 2 come in and the demostration is done, a decision will be made as to whether they will be MCI 102-DL3 Commuter Coaches or New Flyer D45S Coaches. 9 times out of 10 they will go to other Express Depots (i.e. Ulmer Park, Jackie Gleason, West Side).]
To Mr. Gutiorrez,
Can you post the early 1981 bus roster for all Brooklyn Bus Depots & Castleton Depot plus the routes that were assigned to each depot.
Sincerely,
Michael
Michael,
Will search through my files to come up with this information.
Please be patient.
Thanks
I saw Orion 522 on the Q12 in Flushing yesterday with Orange front and rear destination signs.
The Orange signs are much easier to see from a distance, especially during the day. The TA should put these signs on all their buses.
Also the yellow/green ones on the new 6000 Orions aren't bad either, though the Orange is still the best.
I happen to read the messege that was just posted in regards to bus parking expansion & that Yukon was one of them.
Since Yukon Bus Depot is in need for bus parking expansion, when will NYCT start constructing this expansion, where will this bus parking expansion be located at, how many buses will be stored at this expansion & when will construction be completed & is Yukon going to be receiving more buses as part of this parking expansion.
Finally, since you heard about it first about Crosstown Bus Depot that might be reopen as a operating depot, now words that a new Brooklyn Bus Depot is in the 2000-2004 Capital Plan, is this new Brooklyn Bus Depot now going to be Crosstown reopening or a brand new depot, if new depot, where are sites being looked at for this new depot or will they now built a third Staten Island bus depot instead of building a new Brooklyn Bus Depot.
I have explained this before,,,the only things happening in the immediate future are
Coiseum
100 street
Maspeth Facility
I am involved with City affairs ,,you can take my word for this
And please post under your own name
Steve
This is not the Spanish Inquisition. If these questions had been addressed to me, I would have felt as if I were on the witness stand. Anyone who wants detailed information of this nature should write to NYC Transit and ask for it. The address is: 370 Jay Street, Brooklyn NY 11201.
David
[I happen to read the messege that was just posted in regards to bus parking expansion & that Yukon was one of them.
Since Yukon Bus Depot is in need for bus parking expansion, when will NYCT start constructing this expansion, where will this bus parking expansion be located at, how many buses will be stored at this expansion & when will construction be completed & is Yukon going to be receiving more buses as part of this parking expansion.
Finally, since you heard about it first about Crosstown Bus Depot that might be reopen as a operating depot, now words that a new Brooklyn Bus Depot is in the 2000-2004 Capital Plan, is this new Brooklyn Bus Depot now going to be Crosstown reopening or a brand new depot, if new depot, where are sites being looked at for this new depot or will they now built a third Staten Island bus depot instead of building a new Brooklyn Bus Depot.]
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
-Hank :)
They did expand the parking at Yukon, sort of. What SI really needs is a new depot. They added space for about 45 buses on an unbuilt portion of a mapped street (Forest Hill Rd., which is mapped much wider than is actually built) and approximately 25 buses at the AK turnaround facility on Arthur Kill Rd and Richmond Ave.
-Hank
Explain to me HOW the TA built the extra parking at Yukon??
Where they built it is all protected Wetlands, part of the Federal Gateway Park System. It amazes me that the resident of the community just up the block from Yukon asked to build a parking lot in the same area and were turned down because of the above reason (rightful so). But when big governement comes around all rules are off.
Don't get me wrong, Yukon needs expansion but not into wet land. Use some of the dump, since it is closing, for parking.
the section of LaTourette Park that abuts Richmond Hill Rd is part of the mapped route of the Richmond Parkway, and is NOT part of Gateway. It is city Parks Department, and that section is not wetlands. If the highway had actually been built, part of it would be in this area. Since the parkway has not be demapped, the land is usable for certain other non-permenant structures, until the highway is demapped or built, the latter being a rather large impossibility.
-Hank
The parkway was demapped and the land tuned over to wetland. It was in the Advance 3 or so years ago but not longer than that.
The Richmond Parkway has not yet been demapped, nor has the Willowbrook; they are still on the officeial city maps, but they're long-removed from my Hagstroms. They won't demap it until they find adequate alternatives. In any case, the area in question is not wetlands. It's only wet if it rains, there is no standing water. There is a stream about 100 yards in, though. One of these days, I'll follow it. I ride my bike in that are all the time....
-Hank
The section of LaTourette Park that abuts Richmond Hill Rd (and was paved for use as a bus parking area) is part of the mapped route of the Richmond Parkway, and is NOT part of Gateway. It is city Parks Department, and that section is not wetlands. If the highway had actually been built, part of it would be in this area. Since the parkway has not be demapped, the land is usable for certain other non-permenant structures, until the highway is demapped or built, the latter being a rather large impossibility.
-Hank
According to an NYCT Employee Publication, the MTA Capital Plan for 2000-2004 has been approved by the MTA board. Here is how the Dept. of buses will be effected. 1,056 buses will be ordered. 400 articulated, 356 high capacity express coaches & 300 clean-fueled standard size buses. I'm sure depot assignments have not been chosen yet, nor does anyone inside the TA know yet, nor will they decide till the buses are ready for service!
I am curious,,I get the Leader,is this the employee publication ,that you refer to ??
No. The publication is called "At Your Service", the MTA NYC Transit Employee Newsletter, November 1999.
How does one get a copy or get on the Mailing List,THanks
Steve
You can pick up a copy of the "AT YOUR SERVICE" newsletter at any given bus depot, department of buses office, or transit headquarters as I do!
Trevor
Hi
I have been receiviing the LEADER ,,from the Dept of Buses for a few years.----I wonder how these 2 newsletters ,are different
Steve
Anything special planned for the big New Year's Even bash at Grand Army Plaza in Brooklyn? The Plaza and all the streets will be closed. Where will the B69 run? One is scheduled to depart Union and Prospect Park West at 12:20, just in time to get my cranky kids home after the fireworks, but there is no way it can get there from Vanerbilt. What's the plan?
Does anyone have an available Bus Roster
Fleet Numbers
Model Number.type
Mgfr
Date
Operating company (IE---5 av coach,etc)
Thanks
Steve
I will be posting all that stuff, by manufacturer, in the near future. Please be patient.
It's a busy time of year. I have a full-time job. I have a family. When I get around to it, I wll post all the serials/models/owners/fleet numbers.
I already posted the GM New Looks and RTS's for NYCTA. It's not an easy thing to post them here, so as I said, be patient and I will get around to the others eventually.
I am really looking forward to reading your rosters, especially prior to 1959. I hope you will have the Manhatten/Bronx Companies on it too(5th Ave, TARS/Surface, NYOmnibus and Ave B/E Bdwy. I remember as a kid when I went to my Father s Uncle s shop on 14th St just east or 3rd Ave, watching all the pre WWII Buses on the M 9 and 14
Lately On the Bx12 Ive been seening new 5200's MutiAcrt Buses Starting at 5250 to about 5265 so far
are there any other Bus Route for the Bx1,2,12 and 55 that run these type of buses?
And are we going to get the 6350 series in the Bronx?
AceGales
Speaking of Artics, on my way to the Polo Grounds walk on Sunday, I was on 1108? on the Bx1. The diaphram on the joint was seperating at the ceiling, and it was wide enough for the driver to put his hand through, before he attempted a quick-fix (pressing it back into the moulding) which failed as we went over Kingsbridge Rd. Got a pic of the light coming through the gap.
-Hank
Yes those artic you seen on the Bx12 are fresh and new so fare up to 5280 has been delivered. 5254 is on loan to Kingsbidge:
Here is the order of operation for that delivery:
5250-5286, 5320-5402 (120) to Gun Hill
5287-5319, 5403-5509 (140) to Kingsbridge
As of right now, the Bx1, Bx2, Bx55, and some Bx41 have articulated on them but they are the 1997 and 1998 versions. As there as still some 1997 versions on the Bx12 still. Some of the 1997 New Flyer D60 Articulateds have been shuttled down to Westside for operation on the M79 & M86 (Which in my book don't even need theses buses). Also 1998 New Flyer D60 Articulateds #1095-1109 will go to the 126th Street Depot for operation on the M15 (Which needs the Artics very much). Also there is a option order 140 more behind the 260 being delivered which have has been taken, BUT I was told that eventually it will be exercised for a depot in Brooklyn!
NONE of the 6350 Series Orion VI Hybrids or the 6360 Series NovaBUS RTS Hybrid will ever see service outside of Manhattan except on the M60 which goes into Queens. As you may know 6350-6354 have already been delivered and that 6350-6353 are ex-NJ Transit Hybrids, leaving 6354 as our own "Fresh from the Factory" Hybrid. 6355 and 6356 from what I was told was/is due by years end. 6357-6359 will come at a later date as Orion VII Hybrids, probably in front of the new 125 Orion VII Hybrids and 125 Orion VII CNGs. All Hybrids will be for Manhattanville, the 125 CNG Orion VII will be for the Grand Re-Opening of Coliseum.
Hope this has helped you out!
Trevor
I recently was introduced to a really good webpage on transit which was created by our very own Trevor Logan and a few of his friends. If you haven't checked it out, you should. We need to give our young transit fans some props. Check it out: www.geocities.com/transitalk/
Big up to Trevor and Mark W.
Thanks BX55,
This means a great deal that I have fans out there!
Come back to TransiTALK frequently as its updated weekly if not bi-weekly!
Have a Blessed Holiday Season
Trevor
Hi, Trevor. How are you? I'm surprised you don't know who I am! Yeah, I especially liked the Redbird photos and now, I know some of you will kill me for saying this, but I liked the R62 photos as well. Yeah! If you haven't checked it out, check it out and pay some respect to these young railfans...I'm out.
Thanks! Much respect to you to!
Trevor and all of us at TransiTALK!
I spotted New Flyer D45S Viking #997 in front of the Madison Avenue MTA Headquarters on Thursday. Then as DaShawn Pretlow, Kevin Barsky, and myself were out doing pictures last night at East New York, we spotted one sitting in the back of the depot!
Be on the look out, This bus is very huge, very pretty, and can't be mistaken for anything else but a....................VIKING!
Trevor
Thanx for the info. Bus #997??? What is going on? How many types of buses is the TA assigning to that # series? It was my belief that the
low floor Novas were in that series, if & when they do decide to show up.
Joe C
the upper 900 numbers (990-999) are used as demo numbers, 995 being the NovaBUS LFS and 996-998 used as the New Flyer Viking #s!
When and if there is a actual LFS order it will be assigned a 4-digit number, which will stand for the same for the Vikings!
Trevor
Do you have a picture of this god? If so, send it to me ASAP!
Nope no pics yet, but I'm now keeping a camera with me at all times just in case
Trevor
when you do gfet the pic, email it to me..cant wait to see it either.
I will post the pic at my site and give the link as soon as I do!
Trevor
This weekend I passed Triboro's Jackson Heights yard and saw 1988 MCI Classic #786 and 1994 TMC RTS-06 CNG #2067 in the new paint scheme. These are the first of each type I've seen with the new graphics. One new item on these that I hadn't noticed on the repainted RTS buses...an American flag (about 12"x24"?) under the driver's window.
657, 674, 726, 761, 2808-2809, 2815, 2820-2821, 2824 and 2828 are among the ones with the new paint. On TransiTalk, there are 2 pics of 786 b4 the paint over. Check them out. 2067 was involved in an accident I beleive in the Spring this year. The front bumper was pushed in- moderate-heavy damage on her. Glad to see these new paintjobs on these buses especially the MCI'S. I bet that the reason why 3033, 3049, 3053, 3068-3069 and 3071 were not painted is because they are next to receive in what I like to call "The Futuristic Scheme of cTc!"
MM2000
My bad, I forgot that 739 has the new paint too.
Could somebody send me a pic of a cTc w/an old paint scheme, and one with a new paint scheme, so I can see the difference? Thanks.
I have a recent picture of bus #2820 in the new paint scheme, and it does have an American flag under the driver's window. I'll try to get the picture on to TransiTALK's Contributors Page shortly.
I just got a great pic of bus 739 with a training sign on it. I'll try to scan it and have it up with TransiTalk's next update along with a few other great pics. BTW: I saw MCI 786 but from windows up because I was on the Q60 at that time by the mall and the wall was in my way of seeing the whole bus. My advice to Pic takers: Stand at Queens Blvd and Woodhaven between 8-9am and you'll be bound to see it.
Also, a Green update: 5503 has been on the QM18. Usually it arrives at Woodhaven between 830-9am. If anybody want pics, that's the best spot to go to.
MM2000
As a Transit Bus Enthuisiast, I would like to find out if New York City Transit's Department Of Buses at the East New York Headquarters keeps any color photographs on file of the Museum Transit Authority buses? In particular, I am looking for a photo of the 1963 GMC TDH-5303 New Look bus #3758 painted in green with the original script
New York City Transit Authority logo on top. I remember riding these similar 1963 GM Fish Bowl Transits on Staten Island during the early and mid 1970's in the 3600 fleet roster. I have been trying so desperately to get a clear picture of the former Transit Authority 1963 Bus #3758. That is why I would like to find out if there is anybody who knows any of the main N.Y.C. Transit officials who can find me a picture of the 1963 GMC Fishbowl Transit Bus? Thank you.
Novabus RTS #5230-#5249 from Kingsbridge Depot is heading to Jackie Gleason Depot for TMC-RTS #4611 & #4615. Look like Kingsbridge Depot is getting TMC-RTS #4600s.
As I had noted in previous messages, my preference vis-a-vis GM New Look buses regarding the back side leans toward those with what someone called the “split” rear-window arrangement (that is, four rear windows), as shown below:
I thought these TDH-5303's origianlly had the non-split (3 piece) rear window. They were built before I was born, but I remember some of the MABSTOA 5200-5500 TDH-5303's with the non-split window. In the early 1980's MABSTOA's #6686 sported a non-split rear window. I prefer this window to the split version.
Wayne
The earliest I ever saw a split rear (4-piece) window was on the 1965 models as delivered. I know the full rear (3-piece) was an option available to the end of production but most companies went with the split rear window due to it being easier and less expensive to replace when needed.
As far as back ends on GM New Looks, it's got to be the one the TDH4517 and TDH5302 had. The wide body New Looks just didn't look right to me using the fancy back end. It seemed to fit nice on the narrow body coaches though.
RDChilds
Backend or heck... all around my favorite has always been the T6H/T8H-5307A/08A/09A/10A and T6H-4523A. I think they looked the best and I also liked the sound of their engines.
Wayne
Wayne, I'm with you on the appearance of certain models; the "fourth" generation of New Looks were my favorites, especially the 40-footers with the 8V71 engine in them and air conditioning.
I would have like to drive one aleast one time since I used to ride them with my farther driving, but I started 6 mounth to late with the
TA. The last few that were in Ulmer Park just left as I got off line traning in ENY. My brother told me that the New Looks and the flexes were the best buses that he drove.
Over and Out
Robert
The best part of a newlook was the drivers compartment. I found that bus to be the most comfortable bus I had driven in that era. I had the pleasure of driving one everyday until we retired them in 1992. We preserved one TDH5307A for posterity to know what a real bus was like.
Were do you work.
Although I favor the TDH4517 model for appearance as I said earlier, I like the looks of all the various models of GM New Looks. My all time personal favorite however, were the TDH5303's that ran when I was growing up. That's the main reason I lean towards the 6V-71's also. I guess it's what you grew up with for the most part that leans you to a particular model.
Growing up in Pittsburgh, there were lots of hills and I literally grew up listening to them screaming up steep hills all of 5-15 miles an hour. Given the terrain around the area, the lower exhaust pipe would usually end up partially crushed at the end which would make the engine sound more like a rocket engine than a bus engine. The A/C had long died on them but occaisionally you would get one that still worked which made them even louder. You could hear them before you could see them sometimes.
You could always tell a bus that had recently had it's engine/transmission worked on as the rocket sound was missing and it would pull the hills with a crush load at between 30-50 miles per hour (depending on if it had to stop or not at the bottom of a hill). PAT had about 350 of the 5303's total (with 6V-71's) and the oldest in service lasted from 64 through 84 and was only retired because of government regulations. It was a real good runner and in revenue service daily. Between 84 and 85 they got rid of most the pre-70 equipment (around 100 or so buses) they had left running with the exception of some rebuilt TDH4519's and a few original TDH4519's which were 66 models and needed for certain routes.
The T8H5307A's we got in 71 were a good bus also. Very powerful and modern looking compared to the earlier models. I enjoyed riding on them as well.
It's amazing that just putting a different style of lighting on the same basic body could change the appearance so much.
RDChilds
You're correct about the original TDH5303's having the 3-piece rear window. The 3300's (which went up to the 3900's) were delivered with them, but many were changed in later years as needed, to the 4-piece windows. Not only were some of them replaced with 4-piece, but I remember at least one of the air conditoned 3211-3220 series TDH5301's had a 4-piece setup (I seem to think it was 3214...) They used to run a lot on the Bx41 when I was going to high school in the mid-1960's.
The first 4-piece windows I remember in NYC were the 6400 series MABSTOA TDH5303's.
Last night I was watching an old episode of SNL on Comedy central withEddie murphy riding on 9210 on 6th ave.In 1984 what depot and would have been out of and would be running on the M5,M6 or M7
I believe it was originally assigned to 146th Street, then it went to West Farms. In 1984 I don't remember where 9210 was, but the M4, M5 & M6 operated out of 132 Street, 54th Street and 146th Street depots respectively.
Wayne
Wayne: After West Farms Depot close in 1984 Flexible #9210 went to Old 100th Street Depot until retired in 1990 or 1991.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Early today i saw GMC-RTS #3162 running on Bx11 from Kingsbridge Depot & the bus came from Jackie Gleason Depot.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
3824 Was on the Q46 run 033 today. 4159 has returned home to Pier but has a JG sticker still on her.
MM2000
The other day, around 7:20 I think, when I got to the bus stop at 14th and A (eastbound), there was an M14 sitting there, sign off, no passengers. It had run 3 in the run # box. The driver was talking to a dispatcher. Then, he turned down avenue A. 2 minutes later, I see the bus coming west on 14th. What was this?
Some of B/O sometime running late or dispatcher told B/O finish your shift than turn around start running. For example im a B/O running late & i have to be in 6st & 3rd Ave at 4:30pm but the time is 4:40pm than dispatcher look in his book that im late & he will tell me dischange your passengers & i will start again at 5:00pm going uptown. All the B/O fellow there schedules & be on time.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
PS: if you don't understand this than i will explain again if you post again
"6st & 3rd Ave at 4:30pm but the time is 4:40pm than dispatcher look in his book that im late & he will tell me dischange your passengers & i will start again at 5:00pm going uptown."
That part I don't understand. You're supposed to leave at 4:30, you get there at 4:40, you leave at 5:00?
Ok for example
23st 4:20 4:50
14st 4:25 4:45
6st 4:30 4:40
If im running & the time is 4:40 already at 6st & dispatcher will tell B/O start at 14st. Now you got it?
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Yup.
Today, at South End and Albany street, (M9, M10 terminal), an M10 was waiting there. Run 050, bus #9530. It was still there around 3:10, when my bus pulled out. Mich later, around 5:20, on 14th street, somewhere between 3rd and 6th avenues, I saw that same bus, lights off, "next bus please" sign, going eastbound. Any ideas?
Heading back to Depot after finish shift or there something wrong with the bus. Most of B/O finish there shift at the end of terminal & my father who is the B/O finish his shift at Riverside Drive at 5:00pm on M79 than heading back to Depot.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
If it was going to the depot, it would NOT have been going east.
B/O maybe came from Depot heading to start his/her shift at FDR or something.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
9530 is a WS bus.
Novabus-RTS #9530 is from Hudson Pier Depot not West Side Depot.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Oh I meant 9630.
9530 is a HP bus not WS. I know cause I rode 9531 recently on Q32. Pier has up to 9534.
MM2000
I meant 9630.
Ok Ok! Nobody's perfect here.
MM2000
To Logan,
You had posted on your webpage before about the surburban NYCT Orion buses being transferred to Queens & Brooklyn along with the completion of the entire MCI order for Staten Island.
I would like to know if the surburban NYCT Orion buses are going to Queens & Brooklyn soon, if so, what depots will they be assigned to & how many each depot will receive along with the seriel numbers.
Sincerely,
Michael
As of right now, that has been changed, for now most of the Orion V Suburbans assigned to SI will stay there until further notice, but when they are moved, most likely they will see service at Jackie Gleason and probably Ulmer Park (Not to enthused with the possibility of the Orions ending up at UP).
I will keep BT posted as information is passed on to me from the Department of Buses!
Trevor
WHY SEND THE ORION SUBURBAN TO JG IF THEY WILL NOT HAVE A EXPRESS ROUTE S OF JANUARY OF 2000?
Exactly! How many times do I (and now Simon) have to say this?
David
P.S.: Another thing that shouldn't have to be said 200,000 times: If you want a specific person to answer a specific question, and that person supplies an e-mail address (as Trevor does), don't post the question to the Board, especially in the form of a memo! It's EXTREMELY rude!
[WHY SEND THE ORION SUBURBAN TO JG IF THEY WILL NOT HAVE A EXPRESS ROUTE S OF JANUARY OF 2000?]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I only go by what is told to me by Department of Buses!
Trevor
[P.S.: Another thing that shouldn't have to be said 200,000 times: If you want a specific person to answer a specific question, and that person supplies an e-mail address (as Trevor does), don't post
the question to the Board, especially in the form of a memo! It's EXTREMELY rude!]
FYI, I do this ... was doing it yesterday with a colleague in the TA bus div. I find it a way we "employees" can help each other in a very unofficial way. Also between customers & buffs I might be a little more candid off-line then in public for all the world to see. And final point, I've made some dear friends who I regularly talk to off line ... five of us went to New Haven (Shoreline @ Branford) and had a fun day getting dirty in a Red Bird (that a subway car for you bus buffs only). At the end of the day mngt. let us take her out for a spin.
Mr t__:^)
Trevor is correct. The 1993 Orions are staying put--for now. They may be introduced to Brooklyn (UP) during the year, but for now SI will continue to be their home.
From what I heard, most city buses are 275 horsepower diesels. Some 4x4s and cars have more power. 275 seems on the low side for a bus.
Intercity buses have at least 400. Would opting for a more powerful unit be better?
Diesels are usually lower horsepower than their gasoline powered brethren. Check out the stats for the New Beetle TDI, for example.
To add to Alan's response: For diesels the important figure is the torque. Diesels routinely develop more torque than gasoline engines of the same displacement. A good amount of torque is what gives a vehicle good acceleration and hill climbing ability with loads. Diesels also reach their peak low in the RPM range which is a good thing. This is part of the reason any vehicle that's used for towing will usually have a diesel engine.
Some of the diesels in buses have peak torque rating over 1000lbs. ft and an incredibly low 1200-1700 RPM's. I don't have exact figures handy, but I'm sure those are in the ballpark. You should go to the Cummins or Detroit Diesel websites.
Wayne
Here is the horsepower ratings (For those that don't know) and some surprises for you (Cylinder-wise)!
1982-1985 RTS - Detroit Diesel Series 71 or Series 92 at 253 Horspower
6 Cylinders
1986-1993 RTS - Deroit Diesel Series 92 at 277 Horsepower
6 Cylinders
1994-1999 RTS - Detroit Diesel Series 50 DDEC III & IV at 275 Hp
4 Cylinders
RTS #9140-9149 - Cummins M11 at 280 Horsepower
6 Cylinders
1993 Orion V - Detroit Diesel Series 92 at 277 Horsepower
6 Cylinders
CNG Orion V - Cummins L10G at 260 Horsepower
6 Cylinders
1994-1999 Orion V - Detroit Diesel Series 50 at 275 Horsepower
4 Cylinders
Orion VI Hybrids - Detroit Diesel Series 30 at 210 Horsepower back by
the Lockheed-Martin HybriDrive System
1996-1998 New Flyer D60 - Detroit Diesel Series 50 at 315 Horspower
4 Cylinders
1999 New Flyer D60 - Detroit Diesel Series 50 at 320 Horsepower
4 Cylinders
1999 New Flyer C40LF - Detroit Diesel Series 50G at 275 Horspower
4 Cylinders
MCI Commuter Coaches - Detroit Diesel Series 60 at 330/350 Horsepower
8 Cylinders
LFS Demo - Detroit Diesel Series 40E at 275 Horspower
6 Cylinders
Hope that this chat clears up any mis-understanding on HP and Cylider ratings in the fleet!
Trevor
Trevor,
Thanks for those horsepower figures. I'm in the process of getting the complete peak (RPM) HP/Torque ratings. One thing - you listed the DD Series 60 as a 8-cylinder engine. My understanding is that the DD Series 60 is a 6-cylinder engine and the last 8-cylinder engine produced by Detroit Diesel was the 8V-92TA. In fact heard that it's basically a bored out version of the DD Series 50 w/ the extra cylinders of course.
Wayne
No Problem Wayne,
Actually its the other way around, the Series 50 is the child to the Series 60, and the Series 60 is produced as 6 and 8 cylinder versions!
Trevor
Buses 5230-5249 are now officially ex-KB buses as they are assigned to JG. In return KB has received the following: 3036, 3162, 4601, 4603, 4606-4615, 4617.
There are some new loaners at JG. The 20 Brooklyn Division buses that were sent there Monday are:
9032, 9048, 9066, 9075, 9076(ENY); 9181-9185(FP); 9393, 9403, 9415, 9432, 9438(FLA); 9087, 9094, 9103, 9105, 9108(UP).
As a side note, GH's 5075-5124, originally to be reassigned to HUD, will now be assigned to FLA, as more new artics come in. This is great news for Bklyn bus buffs, as these buses have ZF trannies which make for a great sounding bus.
Darn - KB certainly got the short end of that deal.
Wayne
Did they fix the CNG Tank Fuel at Jackie Gleason Depot? Other day i saw GMC-RTS #3162 running on Bx11.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
"As a side note, GH's 5075-5124, originally to be reassigned to HUD, will now be assigned to FLA"
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Hey shut up! GO ARTICS FOR THE B41!!! You Manhattan people already have artics on the M79 and M86 and will have them on the M15, what else do you want?
"Hey shut up! GO ARTICS FOR THE B41!!! You Manhattan people already have artics on the M79 and M86 and will have them on the M15, what else do you want?"
Uhh... I was saying NOOOOO to the ZF Ecomat's not going to HUD, I never said anythign about artcis.
Well, we wan't nice sounding busses too! You have 995 and nearby depots with the Orion VI. You have better busses, it's time to give BROOKLYN the best busses. Brooklyn is the fourth largest city in the country, if consolidation hadn't happened, then Brooklyn would be third (after LA and Chicago, NY would have been sixth or something).
"Brooklyn is the fourth largest city in the country"
Brooklyn isn't a city.
NEVERTHELESS, Brooklyn is larger than every city except for New York (with our without counting Brooklyn), Los Angeles and Chicago.
Brooklyn
1834-1898
Correction:
CITY OF Brooklyn
1834-1898
what else do we want...hmm..3 simple things:
1-peace
2-health and hapiness for all who respond here.
3-new buses for Ulmer PArk within the new year. not fair that the 5200
s from kingsbridge are going to jg. send the 7000's from flatbush to ulmer..send 8500's to ulmer park. give them a break.
I forgot to say yesterday, that KB's 5205-5229 will wind up in UP eventually, once nearly all the artics are in.
It is truly unfair that UP has to put up with ricketty old 32, 36 & 3700's that they have to piece together with duct-tape. In fact, I spotted 3059 on the B6 on Ashford and Linden Blvd on Monday. I feel sorry for UP bus fans. The Midwest rebuilds are garbage, the 1987 RTS-06's used to run in The Bronx--nuff said on that one-- and the 9000's are being run into the ground because its the only decent local bus they have, AND 5 OF THEM ARE CURRENTLY ON LOAN TO JG (9103 and 9108 were spotted in JG service so far). It just keeps getting worse for UP.
Buck up, friend. Sooner or later (probably later), UP will have all new coaches.
the buses they recieved are not ALL from the bronx:
#4753-#4792 are from Amsterdam orignally.
#8340-#8350 are from Mother Clara Hale.
I thought UP was supposed to get #8319-#8339 but they went to Flatbush, can't understand why. Also i found out that UP is losing the B82 come 1/16/00. if they keep losing local buses, they will never get new buses fro local service because they wont have any.
UP Bus Roster of routes-B1,B3,B4,B6(split FLA),B36,B64,B74,X25,X27,X28,X29.[this is to begin 1/16/00]
Bring back the B68 to Ulmer Park.
passed by UP at around 9AM the outdoor lot had nearly 20 buses sitting in it during the morning rush
WHY?
You probably saw our extra express coaches(7ooo's)and our dead buses
(rear of yard).
ANDY
The B82 needs to be at UP because the terminal is closer. They don't have to pay as much homage to the Grateful Dead.
Please call 888-692 8287
Have a nice day
====join my group
Steve
What is the number for, I must have missed it in a previous posting
I called this AM. "Customer Service" answers. He thought I worked for the TA, I didn't correct him, so when he asked if I wanted the calendar sent to my house, I said yes & thank you.
Mr t__:^)
There ya go !!!
Steve
888 692 8287 Dept of Buses
Do you know if they will send the out of State??
Today I had a sub driver for my bus (my usual driver too the day off), and we talked for a while, and I got this info: He's a floater, first year working, and get this: SIX APPLE AWARDS! Can you bleive that? And he said on monday if this run is still available he'd pick it.
Vince Mashburn on the M86 (my homeline!) has been working for like 5 years, more than 30 apples and more than 10 gold apples. So ha! hehe
Peace Out
-Clayton
I don't know how many years Mr. Mashburn has, but it's a lot more than 5. When I was in Customer Services (I left 7 years ago) I used to get at least one of his commendations a week!
David
[Vince Mashburn on the M86 (my homeline!) has been working for like 5 years, more than 30 apples and more than 10 gold apples. So ha! hehe
Peace Out
-Clayton]
Mister Ashburne also was caught sleeping in his bus off route. Beware of those with all the comendations, they give out cards with their names and phone numbers to call.
You must have something against him if you're going to post something like that.
This 1 guy I know out of QV (badge 48442 - I knew this cause he made the people on the bus say his badge number cause he wanted them to tell his boss a fabulous job that he's doing.) Anyway, he has been operating on the Q46 run 314. This guy is loaded with Apple Awards- at least 50- no joke. One side of his jacket are nothing but Red Apple Pins. Now here's a guy who really loves his job.
MM2000
Not to sling mud on Mr. Mashburn and other Apple winners, at least half of the bus operators in NY (if not the entire world) do their job with quiet competency and the utmost of professionalism. I extend holiday greetings and a hearty well done to all.
(Boy, I sure go patriotic after watching Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, huh?)
Many of the operators who receive many apples are good operators but many are dishonest and have friends and family call in for them. Those that don't make sure the customers know who they are by giving out cards and information on who to call.
It may be mud slinging on my part, but the truth never feels good!
Ask the top Operator at 126St. who gets hundreds of apples a year!@
There's nothing wrong with a bus operator promoting herself or himself to get apple nominations from patrons. Most riders won't bother sending in the nomination unless they think the driver actually deserves it. While there may be some illegal votes by relatives, I suspect this doesn't happen often. But I do agree with Alan. Many, many operators do an excellent job but, because of lack of self-promotion or riders who don't make an effort to get an apple nomination sent, don't receive proper recognition. Based on my personal experience, a large majority of NYC operators do a very good job. If they enjoy the work, that is the best reward they can receive (although a decent salary helps also!).
Happy Christmas and a Merry New Year to you and your families
Steve
From the production lists I have, the companies in NYC did not buy many Yellow Coach buses until the 45-passenger models were made!
From photos I have seen, manyother manufacturers sold their buses to the various transit operators in NYC.
Some of the following may NOT have been to a NYCTA predecessor, but they were listed as being IN New York City. These are the ONLY ones listed in the entire Yellow Coach production lists of all models.
Info listed:
Model
Serial number (-xxx)
Property delivered to
Fleet number
Date of delivery to owner
Model TD4502
-173 to -175 New York Omnibus Corp. 800-802 (05/41)
-236 to -287 New York Omnibus Corp. 803-854 (05/41)
-315 to -317 Surface Transportation Corp. 1021-1023 (07/41)
-318 to -320 Surface Transportation Corp. 1031,1027,1024 (07/41)
-321 to -323 Surface Transportation Corp. 1028,1025,1032 (07/41)
-324 to -326 Surface Transportation Corp. 1029,1033,1026 (07/41)
-327 to -329 Surface Transportation Corp. 1030,1034,1048 (07/41)
-330 to -339 Surface Transportation Corp. 1035-1044 (07/41)
-340 to -342 Surface Transportation Corp. 1050-1051,1049 (07/41)
-343 to -345 Surface Transportation Corp. 1052-1054 (07/41)
-346 to -347 Surface Transportation Corp. 1045-1046 (07/41)
-348 to -352 Surface Transportation Corp. 1055-1059 (07/41)
-353 to -354 Surface Transportation Corp. 1047-1060 (07/41)
MODEL TD4505
-278 to -302 Eighth Avenue Coach Company 855-879 (05/42)
-309 to -311 Eighth Avenue Coach Company 886-888 (05/42)
-313 to -318 Eighth Avenue Coach Company 890-895 (05/42)
-408 to -417 Eighth Avenue Coach Company 905-914 (05/42)
-418 to -419 Eighth Avenue Coach Company 916,915 (05/42)
(NOTE: Numbers 880-885, 889, 896-904 show to be delivered to
Lang Motor Bus Company (Long Beach, CA) with same numbers.
Was Lang connected with any NYC company?)
MODEL TD4506
-341 to -343 Fifth Avenue Coach Company 2200-2202 (11/45)
-344 to -400 Fifth Avenue Coach Company 2203-2259 (04/46)
-401 to -425 Madison Avenue Coach Company 1700-1724 (04/46)
-426 to -440 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1725-1739 (04/46)
-441 to -458 Eighth Avenue Coach Company 1740-1757 (04/46)
-459 to -483 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1758-1782 (04/46)
-704 to -706 Comprehensive Omnibus Corp. 701-703 (06/46)
-707 to -709 East Side Omnibus Corp. 301-303 (06/46)
-710 to -734 Green Bus Lines 901-925 (05/46)
-970 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1783 (07/46)
-979 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1784 (07/46)
-984 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1785 (07/46)
-990 to -991 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1786-1787 (07/46)
-1000 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1788 (07/46)
-1008 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1789 (07/46)
-1032 to -1033 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1790-1791 (09/46)
-1038 Madison Avenue Coach Company 1830 (09/46)
-1039 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1792 (09/46)
-1048 to -1051 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1794-1797 (09/46)
-1053 to -1058 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1798-1802 (09/46)
-1059 to -1060 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1809,1808 (09/46)
-1061 to -1064 New York City Omnibus Corp. 1803-1807 (09/46)
-1067 Madison Avenue Coach Company 1831 (09/46)
-1080 to -1082 Madison Avenue Coach Company 1820,1810-1811 (09/46)
-1083 to -1085 Madison Avenue Coach Company 1832,1812-1813 (09/46)
-1086 to -1088 Madison Avenue Coach Company 1821,1814-1815 (09/46)
-1089 to -1091 Madison Avenue Coach Company 1822,1833,1823 (09/46)
-1092 to -1094 Madison Avenue Coach Company 1816,1834,1824 (09/46)
-1095 to -1097 Madison Avenue Coach Company 1817,1825,1818 (09/46)
-1098 to -1100 Madison Avenue Coach Company 1826,1825,1819 (09/46)
-1101 to -1103 Madison Avenue Coach Company 1827-1829 (09/46)
-1104 to -1200 Surface Transportation Corp. 1100-1196 (11/46)
The production list shows a dozen or so of the FACCo 2203 series as being delivered to "Northland Greyhound Lines" in Minneapolis. I
think somehow the production lists may contain this as an error. I
have listed them as one block going to FACCo, unless someone can confirm POSITIVELY otherwise.
To those waiting patiently (I hope...) for other such lists, I am presently working on the following (correcting/etc.):
GM old look buses 1947-1959
Flxible new look buses 1952-1976
Grumman Flxible ADB buses 1977-1995
As I get the lists updated, corrected, etc., I will post them here by individual subject. I will post ONLY the information pertinent to New York City.
Steve I remember in the mid-late 50s, when My aunt lived in Rego Park, that Triboro had some 1938 Yellow Coaches running on a couple of lines (Q 38, 45) Do you know anything about it. Also about Pre War Macks on the old BMT Busses. Where did you getb this production list. I am really facisinated about these rosters, because I remember seeing them as a kid, before I move to LA in 58. Also did 8th Ave & Madison Ave Become NYC Omnibus or 5th Ave. I know in the late 50s all Bronx and Manhatten Busses started wearing 5th Ave Livery except AveB/EBDWY. Also are you going to go into the 50s? Thanks Bob
Sorry I don't have info on anything prioer to late 1939, early 1940.
First, kudos for your really comprehensive list. Nice job.
But what about those Yellow models 718, 728, and 740 that were sold to NYC Omnibus and Fifth Ave. Coach between 1935 and 1940? There were probably 700 such buses - majority of which were used to convert the former NY Railways lines in 1935-36.
Also - don't forget the famous fleet of 160 Yellow 720 and 735 double deckers that were sold to Fifth Ave. Coach in 1936-38.
That sounds good too
Sorry I do not have any source for the information on models earlier than the TD/TG series.
I've had a couple people ask me over the years if I ever saw such lists for the buses such as the double-deckers.
One complete model slipped by when I was posting those lists!
The lists I have do not show anything earlier than late 1939.
Sorry!
Actually, it was a grand total of ONE bus in the entire production run of this model, but it was indeed a very unique bus.
MODEL TD5401 -- serial EXP204 -- Fifth Avenue Coach Company 2500, built in 1940 (no month specified).
This was Yellow Coach's first 40-foot transit bus. It later went to Chicago Motor Coach (same owners as FACCo) as their #2500.
****The production list shows a dozen or so of the FACCo 2203 series as being delivered to "Northland Greyhound Lines" in Minneapolis. I think somehow the production lists may contain this as an error. I have listed them as one block going to FACCo, unless someone can confirm POSITIVELY otherwise.****
The Museum I belong to has complete GM production lists on microfilm. I'll ask the person in our group who has has them to look this information up on the FACCo 2203 series. It may take a few weeks with the holidays.
Also if anyone is interested, our Museum has complete GM Old Look and New Look lists posted but they are in model order and not in city order.
http://www.omot.org/
I just went to that site...nice work on the production lists there. The lists there seem to be almost the same exact ones I have -- and they show that same "quirk" about every other 2203-series FACCo bus going to Northland Greyhound Lines.
Another source of the same list does NOT show them as being originally delivered there, but FACCo sold them to NGL in the late 1950's!
Well as I said in my response, I am going to have the person verify that order on the GM microfilm. He said probably sometime next week. I know a list from the same source as you have is not sufficient but we will verify the list off the microfilm, have the order in question copied and I'll scan it in and post it so you can check it out.
RDChilds
Do you have anything on other Pre War Busses in NYC regardless of mfg, saying back to 1934? I do remember some old Macks on the AveB/EBdwy well into the 50s, and even Whites in Staten Island, and I think Macks, who ran on Kings Hwy prior to the Twin Coaches. I am hopeing to build up a roster of early NYC Transit busses and the 5 Ave Busses. I even remember some old Macks on the Green Bus Lines since they went buy my great aunts house on the Q35, and some prewar Yellows from Triboro on the Q38 as late as 1958
I don't think we do. I have to ask the keeper of the GM microfilm for our group if they include the pre-1939 Yellow Coaches. I'm not sure if that info is there or not. I know we don't have anything in the way of production records for other manufacturers dating back that far although we get new things in all the time. If we run across anything, I'll let you know.
RDChilds
Green Bus had a large pre-WW II Mack bus fleet, that generally operated the Rockaway routes (e.g., Q35) well into the 1950's, after which Green became an all GM property. The Triboro prewar Yellows on the Q38 were ex-Fifth Ave.Coach vehicles, because they were unique - rebuilt with diesel engines and indented windshields by 5th Ave in the mid 1950's. They ran on crosstown lines on 8th, 14th, 57th, and 72d Sts. till as late as 1961. I remeber these buses on Triboro routes as well - Q38 and others - until the early 1960's as well.
I remember the old Macks that Green Used to run on the Q35, they were a darker Green. Didnt Ave B/E.BDWY have Pre war Macks also. I also think the BMT ran Macks before the Twin Coaches on the Busses in Southern Brooklyn like the B2,3,4,5,6,9 Ulmer Park Lines
You also forgot the 12 Spring-Delancy Sts and the Ridge-Pitt line under the Willie Bridge
Triboro only had eight pre-war Yellow Coaches. These were not ex-Fifth Avenue! They were purchased new by Triboro. In fact Triboro never had any ex-Fifth Ave. buses.
They did have one White 788 that was ex-New York City Omnibus and one TD 4506 that was ex-Surface Transit. Technically these were not Fifth Avenue buses, even though FACCO did own the companies.
Triboro did have a large number of ex-NYCTA old look GMs: TDH 4507s. As well as some TDH 4510s, TDH 5101s.
As to the rebuilding with indented windshields, etc. This seems to have been a practice in New York. In fact Triboro rebuilt some of the ACF's 45-S with indented windshields, GM thermo matic grills, bumbers, and even GM builders plate on the front along with the chrome wings.
In what year did the Madison Ave and Eighth Ave Omnibus Lines merge with the NYC Omnibus or 5th Ave Coach Lines???
In 1951, Madison Ave. Coach and 8th Ave. Coach legally merged into NYC Omnibus, but it was essentially a paper merger - to the public there was no difference before or after, since the buses (except for some original 1935 models) usually were lettered "NYC Omnibus". In 1956, Fifth Ave. and NYC Omnibus merged, resulting in the former Omnibus coaches being relettered for 5th Ave. Coach. Also, in 1956, Fifth Ave. Coach bought Surface Transportation (became Surface Transit, Inc.) but kept the operation separate, although many former Fifth Ave. GMs and Macks were reassigned to Surface Transit afterward.
Andy, I knew 5th Ave owned NYC Omnibus Lines and remember the lettering change over. Do you know when Surface took over Fordham and the othe Bronx Bus Lines?
It's really the other way around. 5th Ave. Coach took over Surface in Dec. 1956 but kept it a totally separate operation (garages, routes, transfers, and union agreements). For example, there were no transfer privileges between the M104 Broadway (Surface Transit) the 5th Ave. Coach crosstown routes on 79th, 86th, and 96th Streets. When MABOSTOA was formed in 1962 it acquired all 5th Ave. and Surface routes in the Bronx and Manhattan.
Surface was originally the Third Ave. Railway, and included routes in southern Westchester in its network that were not affected by the MABSTOA takeover. These routes continued to be operated by 5th Ave. Coach's owners after 1962, and were known as the Westchester Street Transportation Co. The "Fordham" you refer to is most likely West Fordham Transportation, which operated some Bronx to Westchester routes. Around 1970 Westchester Street acquired West Fordham's routes. These routes are now part of Westchester's Bee Line network.
So West Fordham Bus Lines did not run local service within the BX. I remember the Yonkers Railway and then Bus Lines connecting with the 1 and 4 Lines to Yonkers
Early today i saw #1002 & #1003 on M79. Also i was riding on #1003 with my father who is a B/O & i spent time with him on break in TMC-RTS #8608 standing at 79st & Broadway. I ask him a question about Articulated & he enjoy driving bus.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
I've seen 1000, 1002, 1015, and a few others during my trip to NY which I got back from about 30 minutes ago. More in my post entitled "Back From NYC".
I went to WS yesterday and it was really cold so I only got two pics and I remember seeing about 50 MCI buses on the roof of WS. I noticed 1021 and 1045 on the roof. I was going to go to 41st to get some pics of the other side but it was freezing so I chickened out. MY SITE IS BACK! I will scan my pics next week. I got 9007, 4963 Command CNG orion, 6123, 1861 (MCI), 8354, 2062, and 8653!
Peace Out
-Clayton
Welcome back Clayton!!!! I guess this is considered a Christmas present for us bustalkers! Glad that you're back in business.
MM2000
I got a roll back yesterday too, I got 8228 and 7555.
Peace Out
-Clayton
Got back from NYC about 30 minutes ago. I got articulated 1002 on the M79 on Monday, 1000 on Wednesday. I also saw 1010, 1015, and a few others (I can't remember the unit numbers). They take up a lot of space and there seemed to be more traffic on 79th Street this visit than in prior ones. Also, Tuesday night at Lincoln Center on Broadway, there were M7 and M104 (mostly the latter) every minute or so heading south. Heading to Harlem, the 2 routes came every 10 minutes with 2 104s and a 7 all at once. Also, Wednesday on the M1-4, there was an M1, 2 M3s, and an M4 (I was on the 4) all at once. The frequencies on the back of the map say that buses running on the same street come at different frequencies. This is maybe why we have bunching. Lastly, what do the low floor hybrids from Manhattanville Depot run on? Gas or electricity? I saw them on the M101 and M3.
I spotted Orion 202 outside of the NYPL with the new LED-type signs. Are they going to retrofit the whole fleet, or are these replacements fro broken signs only?
-Hank
225 out of CS has the same signs too front and back. It's probably for buses that have illegible signs. Some of the signs on those buses are faded out. Put those signs on QS's 700 series and GL's 5500 series. Then they'll work and be readible.
MM2000
Orion 225 has had LED signs for about a year now. It might have been a pilot bus for the 6000's and their LED signs.
I've seen the hybrids a LOT on the M103. Earlier this week, I saw 6352 and 6351 on the M103.
I've seen the hybrids a LOT on the M103. Earlier this week, I saw 6352 and 6351 on the M103.
(On the same day)
Saw 2 from where I was staying today on Lex. Not sure as to what route. I also saw one on the M3 on Wednesday at 5 Ave/110 St heading to the village.
just saw #6351 today on the M103 today. looked real snazzy. cant wait to see what #6355-#6359 looks like.
6355-6359 will look like 6354. Any word when they'll be in service?
MM2000
Saw GL 659 on Q11 last night. The question is how high will they go?
MM2000
If there was a people connection chat on AOL for public transport fans, would you go to it? I'll check back Saturday morning.
Me being an AOL'er myself, I might. I'd have to try it out, because sometimes chats on AOL stay on topic, and sometimes they turn spam.
As for my response read this.
How do the destination sign on city buses work? It seems like the thing consider of small green dots that flip over to turn black when its not on and flip over to turn green when its on.
You are right, they are powered by magnets, so when power is applied to them, the flip to black, when power isn't they flip to green. That's why you see buses with messed up destination signs with green showing when its not supposed to, because the magnet power isn't getting to that dot.
Peace Out
-Clayton
can someone explain them to me...I questioned the exterior yellow
light under the drivers windshield///seen on newer busses
The light you are talking about goes on when you shut the retarder off(so management knows if you have it on or not).The retarder downshifts the transmission when you hit the brake or lift off the accelerator.
Can't say for sure, but I've observed, as well as friends in Queens, that the new 400 series Orions appear to run mostly on ex-Steinway lines. Any truth to this and what is the reason?
Joe C
Maybe because they're better to sit in traffic than the other buses.
They also been running on Q65A and Q66 a lot. I rarely see 1 on Q25-34 and I think once I saw 461 on Q65- reason being: go to 164 St and Hillside Ave and you'll know the reason. (For those who don't know that area, I'll tell you: There's a huge hill!!!) Shouldn't have a bus running along this hill- it's that bad. I heard that they had to let people off the bus cause it was sluggish going up and the people had to walk up the hill to recatch it. Why go up this block if the hill is this steep?
MM2000
QSC Orion 477 was spotted today on the Q67, I too, have rarely seen Orions on their two major local lines: Q25/34 and the Q65. That kind of puzzles me. I see the five 700's on those lines, as well as the Q65A and the Q66.
The other day I rode this bus on the Q26 and I noticed on the farebox that it said Hudson Pier on it. Can anybody clarify this? Thanks.
MM2000
I've seen similar things, like Amsterdam fareboxes on WS buses.
Some driver like my brother used to put the depot name on the fare box for some reason. My brother used to work at Amsterdam as a driver and know a Dispter. The buses that are now at WS were at Amsterdam before WS open. Buses 264 must have had a new put in Fare Box that was from Hus. the old FB was sent in to be fixed.
Over & Out
Robert
Way back when the TA used to have the depot names on the fareboxes, they would have to be removed when the bus was moved to another depot. Now, during moves all attachments (i.e. radios, fareboxes) stay with the bus. Therefore, it is now possible that fareboxes could bounce all around the city. How a HUD farebox wound up in CS is anyone's guess. I wouldn't pay much attention to this.
Merry Christmas to all of our Bus Buffs on BusTalk.
MM2000
12/25/99
Merry Christmas and have a safe a holiday from :
Bill Newkirk
I have an idea for a logo for Ulmer Park. It should be a picture of it's mascot, Ulmer Fedd
I have just recently heard that Triboro Coach and Queens surface are going to merge together.
1. Does anybody know when?
2. What will the company be called?
3. What color paint will they have?
This is NOT happening!!! I asked Thurston about a week ago, and he also posted a response to my message on BT a week ago.
MM2000
(1) Who told you that?
Which one would all of you say you like better, RTS or Orion, and why?
I'd have to go with the Orions. First, I'd take slide-glide doors over pantograph any day. Second, you can see the speedometor no matter what posiiton the driver's seat is in. Third, they're faster (well the new ones are, anyway).
Orions are better. They are more comfortable than the RTSs. They just need to announce the stops automatically and they would be perfect. I hate having to look out for the impossible to see street signs to know where to get off. The only routes I know are the M66, M79, and M86 crosstowns.
72nd Street for the M5, M7, M11, M57, and M72 Crosstown.
Welcome aboard the M104. Destanation: 129 Street, West Harlem.
For me its the RTS.I like the look a lot better than the orion which reminds me of a shoebox on wheels.(and it looks cheaply built) I never have driven an orion but have the RTS so i cant compare them that way.
I like the New Flyer LF. They are not as boxes as an Orion and not as comand as an RTS. They are the right blend of both.
"I like the New Flyer LF. They are not as boxes as an Orion and not as comand as an RTS. They are the right blend of both."
I might veer that way too, but I'm wondering people's opinions JUST on Orions and RTS's.
BTW, what do you mean comand?
I like the RTS far better than the Orion. I just think that the Orions are made too cheaply especially the DOT's. On Q104, I'd rather see a TMC RTS than a Orion CNG cause the RTS at least they can wrap the bus and fuel wise, they're better. Orion signs are broken more than RTS, a few weeks into delivery, Orions have holes in them.
And the Orions do look like shoeboxes on wheels- CNG roof is the cover on the box. From most of the drivers I know at QS, they rather have an RTS than an Orion. Better speed and more reliable.
MM2000
First things first, what does a destination sign have to do with the type of bus. If the signs dont work on the Orions that is not Orion's fault. Its the fault of the company who produces the signs. The Orions are not a cheap bus either. I think the Orions have a nicer appearance. I know you are only expressing your opinion but you know what they say about opinions. "Opinions are like a$$holes; everyone has one and most of them stink" Have A MERRY X-MAS.
THAT WASN'T VERY NICE!!! YOU SHOULD RESPECT PEOPLE AND THEIR OPIONS.YOUR LIFE WILL IMPROVE GREATLY.PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO USE FOUL LANGUAGE DO SO 'CAUSE THEY ARTICULATE THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE.
Here we go again!!!!!!
MM2000
Don't look at me....
-Hank
Hey Hank, this time it's not your fault!
MM2000
Thanks for the tip!
Personally I like the Orion IIs in Washington DC. Also, the Orions Vs were much faster than the ones in NYC cause they werent governed. Honestly if i had to choose between a RTS and an Orion I would pick a MCI :)~
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
TransitTALK WebMaster/Photographer
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
I've never liked the RTS too much. I'm not crazy about the Orion V, but when NYCTA started receiving them in 1993 - I was just happy to see something other than an RTS jioning the fleet. Before I moved out of NYC I always lived near KB routes and I'd routinely pass up a RTS for an Orion V. My preference is the Orion V.
Wayne
I also prefer the Orions, they give a smoother ride and are faster. Also they have much better heat and AC than RTS's.
And fortunately, routes like the Q66 are now enjoying beautiful and fast Orion CNG's.
The only reason the Orion's are faster are because they have 5 speed World transmissions (B-400R) instead of the 3 speed (VR-731RH) in the RTS. The main problem with the TA buses are they are governed to the max. I really enjoyed the buses in the DC Metro area, they fly and that is because they are not governed to the same level as the buses here in NY. A few of our buses have kick both Orion and RTS and then some of them are slow! The 50 RTS's at Gun Hill are by far the fastest of them all and would give an Orion a run for it's money. Personally I perfer the Flxible Metro D & E series and the New Flyer D series both High Floor and Low Floor.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Well not even so much as that, the RTS gain speed quicker than the Orions. So it really has nothing to do with the speed of the Transimisson. I have ridden RTSs that will kick a Orion's behind without a sweat. YES, Washington (DC) Metrobus is DUMB FAST! They cut their buses out at 75 MPH, ALL OF THEM!
And I am defiantely a BIG Flxible METRO-D Fan too!
Trevor
Me three!!!!! How come NYCT doesnot order these buses?????
B46M Limited
Maybe it's because Flxible's out of business. NYCT did order 50 Flxible Metros in 1995, but the company went under before the buses could be built. The order was transferred to Orion and became the upper 600s.
David
[Me three!!!!! How come NYCT doesnot order these buses?????
B46M Limited]
That I did not know, thanks.......
B46M Limited
Do you pronounce Flxible "Flexible"?
Correct Tevi, even though its spelled "Flxible" you pronouce it Flexible!
Trevor
Ohhh. I thought it was somethig more like "Flixible"
Same here, I also thought for the past 30 years it was pronounced "Flixible".
Spelled that way so that it could be copyrighted/trademarked (like 'Peterbilt')
-Hank
If your emergency break on a bus fails, and you need to use it, could you use the rear door interlock?
No such thing as an Emergency Brake. I still don't know why it used to be called that. It's now the parking brake. It will not fail (when properly maintained), simply because it is actually (on a vehicle with air brakes), a 'spring brake'. It applys when air is released from the system, and the springs apply the brakes.
-Hank
Or you could simply use all your strength to open the back doors when they are closed, I did that once on an AMST bus, i used two fingers to open rear doors closed, there was something wrong with the bus cuz the doors just opened, the bus jolted to a stop, hehe. By accident of course
Peace Out
-Clayton
"Or you could simply use all your strength to open the back doors when they are closed, I did that once on an AMST bus, i used two fingers to open rear doors closed, there was something wrong with the bus cuz the doors just opened, the bus jolted to a stop, hehe. By accident of course."
ROFLAMO!
Was this an orion or a RTS? Do you remember which bus it was?
On some buses (both RTS and Orion), I've seen stickers that say "ATTENTION! THIS BUS HAS BREAK INTERLOCK. Apply break to interlock. Apply break to relase"
What is this?
The sticker actually says "modified interlock installed apply brake to activate apply brake to release".Before the modified interlock was installed all we had to do was move the handle into the proper position to open the doors. To open the rear door we now have to put the handle in thee proper position and apply the brake. What this does is force us to always be on the brake when stoped.With the old system that wasn't always the case.Its a safety thing.The modified started to be installed in 1988.A few buses still do not have it.
I was just looking through the December issue of Bus World, which actually arrived in December. On page 18, there is a photo of a really weird 1940's style bus called the Futureliner, which was taken in L.A. in June 1999. It has a very deco 40's look, with what appears to be the driver's windshield and rear view mirrors maybe 10 feet off the ground. Anybody know anything about this bus? Was it related to the GM 1939 World's Fair Futurama?
I think there were three of four of them. They were traveling displays or technology buses for GM. There was an article in one of the bus trade publications within the last two years about someone that has one and was restoring it. They were pretty cool looking.
If you should come across the article, please let me know about it. It's a real far-out looking bus, with the operator's position very high up. I don't know how that thing would handle in city traffic. Thanks for the info, and glad to hear that you liked the look of it also.
From a photocopy article a friend sent me from 11/91 out of a car club magazine article titled "Old Car News". I don't know if the one was restored in 92 as the article said and I can't find any reference to the auto collection in question. I think it was in California though.
I'm not sure what car club this article was from but here's the text and a photo of one long after they had stopped being used below:
******************************************************
Bortz Auto Collection takes the "future bus" to the past
In 1940, the GMC Truck & Coach Division of General Motors custom built 12 33-foot long buses to act as traveling display cases for GM cars and new products. Sixteen-foot doors opened on the sides of the buses so that putting on a show for the public was as easy as stopping in a parking lot.
In 1953, the dozen buses were brought back to GMC for refurbishing, where they became "Futurliners" - traveling displays in GM's "Parade of Progress", a big educational road show consisting of 44 vehicles in all that dramatized the vital role of science in American life.
The rebuilding entailed 302-cid in-line six-cylinder GMC motors, Hydra-Matic transmissions, power steering, dual front and rear wheels (with differential hubs permitting one wheel to rotate independtly of the other), air conditioning and special paint schemes. The Futureliners contained some two dozen exhibits, including "Miracles of Heat and Cold" about refrigeration and insulation; and "Power for the Air Age", which taught the history of jet engines.
The 12 Futurliners toured the country for several years afterward and were no doubt responsible for turning a few high schoolers towards careers in science. After their retirement, little was seen of the buses and many assumed that they were gone for good until the Bortz Auto Collection recently announced the acquisition of nine Futurliners.
According to Joe Bortz, curator for the collection, all nine are complete but non-running. The buses will be restored in a warehouse purchased especially for the project and at least one will be outfitted to transport one of the collection's 24 dream cars. Current plans are to have the first Futurliner, with the '54 Pontiac Bonneville Special or other appropriate concept car, parked at the GM design center by June 1992.
*****************************************************
Thank you very much for the great article on the Futureliner. The picture in Bus World Dec 99, which was taken in Los Angeles in June 99 looks even snazzier than the picture in the article. If I had a scanner I would send you a copy of it. I'm going to ask a friend to e-mail you a copy. Again thanks very much. paul
That is one ugly duckling. Must've been like driving a tugboat from way up there!
-Hank
Like making a strafing run in an airplane I imagine from that height
but considering the time I think it's cool looking that is the bus I was talking about I will look for the article if I can find it.
Zeek
hey zeek. Over night, I found a site on the web that had some information about the Futureliner and the remaining one. I don't have my html down so here's the whole address
www.hgtv.com/library/LGAL/features/features.html
Whew!! Then click on RV Restoration.
It is a neat looking kind of deco, kind of like an airplane height cockpit.
Also RDChilds overnight e-mailed me another picture of a whole bunch of Futureliners lined up at a curb. That was really neat. It looked like the whole fleet was hanging out together. If you want to see a copy, either e-mail me or e-mail him or maybe I'll figure out how to put the link up here. Don't hold your breath on that one. paul
HI,
F.Y.I., The history channel has a program called "AUTOMOBILES" which they run periodically. The programs that they run involving G. M. products have frequently shown video of these "FUTURAMA" coaches you speak of.
peace,
ANDEE
Thanks for the information. I no longer have cable since I got on the Internet. You have me curious. Did they show the Futureliners in motion? Or just stills? I had never seen the bus up until the picture in Bus World. From certain angles it is a very intriguing looking vehicle. From other angles it is a very clumsy looking bus. Do you remember how much time they spent on the bus? Thanks paul
I've talked to a freind who went on a Bus History Assn convention earlier this year up in Canada and he said up in Montreal there is one of these Futurliners that's been restored. He has some pics of it which I want to get copies of.
It wasn't the one that was in the web site article regarding the one that was converted to a RV in CA so there is at least two still around. I still haven't found any info regarding the Bortz Collection that is supposed to have 9 of them according to the article I posted a while back but I'm still looking.
RDChilds
Could somebody PLEASE explain to me why the M10 is not at Manhattanville, AMsterdam, or MCH?
And the Q32 should NOT be split wuth HUD, it should be split with WS.
Any comments?
I'm sure there are examples in some of the other boroughs to show that route assignments per depot do not always have goegraphical logic. Other factors, such as bus capacity at a depot, determine which routes are assigned to which depots. I recollect that M10 was once either at Manhattanville or, more likely, MCH. And I don't think it's all that recent that the Q32 went to Stengel at all - it used to be solely in Manhattan. The M11 could easily be at Manhattanville (as it once was) or Amsterdam.
In Brooklyn,
B9 could be at Flatbush.
B65 could be at ENY
B39 could be at ENY
B3 could be at Flatbush
B46M Limited
Q58 should be split with Stengel.
this is what i think ulmer park should get:
B1
B3
B4
B6
B36
B64
B68
B74
B82-full
X25
X28
X29
The TA wants to keep all the Express routes in one depot so the x27 has to be assigned to Ulmer Park. However Ulmer Park does not have enough room for all of these lines. The B-82 should be split with East New York but shoud be managed by Ulmer Park and most of the runs should be Ulmer Park as most of the heavy ridership is the old B-5 part between Flatbush Ave and Canal Ave.
The B-3 at one time was a Flatbush route but since it now terminates at 25/Harway Ave which is at Ulmer Park Depot it makes sense to have it at the depot(no travel time for drivers on their swings).
If the B-40 and B-78 are ever merged you will see the B-65 sent back to East New York with the B-45 going to Gleason(again space problems)
The B-9 is agood fit for Flatbush but again space problems when Flatbush gets articulated buses.
The Q-58 being split with Stengel again you have space problems as well as union problems. The TWU Brooklyn Union will never let it happen. The TA tried to have the Q-56 transferred to Jamaica Depot and the union killed it. That is why the old Q-49 was split between Jamaica and East New York since it replaced TWU conductors jobs.
The reason the Q-32 was split. It was a MABSTOA route and not a TA route. At the same time the M-22 became a MABSTOA ROUTE from the TA 126 St Depot. It was payback when the M-58(MABSTOA) was merged into the M-31(TA route) in the early 90's.
The B82 goes to East New York in its entirety on January 16, 2000, the first day of the Winter 2000 Pick. The X27 goes to Ulmer Park the next day (first weekday of the Pick). As to which depot "manages" which route, once the bus is on the street Road Control manages it. The depots are only responsible for getting the buses out on the road.
The B3 has one minute travel time, BTW.
As to the B65 being swapped for the B45, under any circumstances it's unlikely. The routes are of similar character (carrying people primarily westbound in the morning and eastbound in the evening, and starting in the same place and ending within three blocks of each other) and aren't too far apart as to bus requirements. Ideally, the B65 would operate out of East New York, simply for efficiency,
but there just isn't room in the depot.
David
[The TA wants to keep all the Express routes in one depot so the x27 has to be assigned to Ulmer Park. However Ulmer Park does not have enough room for all of these lines. The B-82 should be split with East New York but shoud be managed by Ulmer Park and most of the runs should be Ulmer Park as most of the heavy ridership is the old B-5 part between Flatbush Ave and Canal Ave.
The B-3 at one time was a Flatbush route but since it now terminates at 25/Harway Ave which is at Ulmer Park Depot it makes sense to have it at the depot(no travel time for drivers on their swings).
If the B-40 and B-78 are ever merged you will see the B-65 sent back to East New York with the B-45 going to Gleason(again space problems)]
These are the bus lines i figure each depot should have. forgive me if i miss a few lines, but its what i remembering:
FLA-2,7,9,41,44,46,49,78.
UP- 1,3,4,6,31,36,64,68,74,x25,x27,x28,x29.
JG-9,11,16,23,35,37,51,61,63,65,67,69,70,71,75,77.
ENY-8,12,14,15,17,25,40,42,45,60,82,83.
FP-26,38,39,52,Q54,Q55,57,Q58,Q59.
XTN-18,24,43,48,61.
i feel bad up losing the b82. hope they get the b68 back next pick.
Why? What difference does (or should) it make to anyone outside of NYCT's Department of Buses and Division of Operations Planning what routes run out of what depots?
David
[i feel bad up losing the b82. hope they get the b68 back next pick. ]
"Why? What difference does (or should) it make to anyone outside of NYCT's Department of Buses and Division of Operations Planning what routes run out of what depots?"
It's called depot pride, crazy boy.
Depot pride does not (or at least should not) depend on which routes operate where. Gleason's people (for example) can be just as proud of the B68 as Ulmer Park's people ever were. In fact, when a route changes depots, the operators usually (if not always) have a chance to change depots and pick back onto that route. And let's not get into name-calling, OK? Look on SubTalk to see what happens when people start calling each other names.
David
[It's called depot pride, crazy boy.]
Depot pride?!?!?!? Please...Any depot can be proud of any line. I can understand that you may miss certain routes being operated by a given depot, but depot pride? Get serious.
Why not return the B-39 to XTN, from which it last emanated?
When was the B65 at ENY?
B46M Limited
The B65 was in ENY back in the early '90's for a brief spell.
It has come to my attention that the B65 was not in ENY in the early '90's. While it definitely was there, I do not recall the dates. Can someone help out?
The B-65 was moved to Jackie Gleason in 1988, together w/ the B-20 to Fresh Pond, to make room (in ENY) for the B-17 & B-42.
The B-65 was at East New York from July,1960 when the line was convereted from electric coach operation until transferred to Jackie Gleason in 1987 due to the Flatbush and Ulmer Park rehabs when many Brooklyn routes were shifted
Thanks for the B65 info, Barry.
I know the B17 was at Flatbush, but was the B42 there also?????
B46M Limited
It sure was. The B17 and B42 went to East NY together.
David
[I know the B17 was at Flatbush, but was the B42 there also?????]
I guess it made sense for both busses to go to ENY. Wise decision.......
B46M Limited
Congratulations on posting message #10,000.
You've just won a lifetime subscription to BUSTALK MAGAZINE.
Rats! Now I'll have to learn how to read!
David
[Congratulations on posting message #10,000.
You've just won a lifetime subscription to BUSTALK MAGAZINE.]
Oh don't worry. Each edition of BUSTALK MAGAZINE comes with a free copy of Hooked on Whole Book Method. You won't be able to read anything else, but you'll be able to read BUSTALK MAGAZINE.
Are there any websites dealing with the CAT system in Las Vegas?
Nope. I asked a friend of mine who works next door to their Term Downtown. They don t even have a fax machine
Ha, how primitive. but are there any busfan sites about the system?
http://www.rtc.co.clark.nv.us/cat/cat.htm
all skeds in PDFs
I have a limited amount of CAT pics from the last time i visited Vegas. I will add them to TransiTALK shortly.
Peace,
Kevin Barsky
TransiTALK WebMaster/Photographer
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
I have bought myself a new computer and have lost the following web site. I have the Ohio Museum, but does not have what I am missing. It is the production List of Busses. I remember it had Macks etc. Can anyone let me know who has it and their URL Thanks
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9036/index.html. Bus Rosters on the Web.
Thank you
What bus styling do you like the most? I like the Neoplan and VanHool. I love european styling. The MCIs seem to be way too conservative.
Why does MCI make their buses with so conservative styling? The older MCIs all look the same.
The MCI I like is the 102EL3 and the DINA viaggio. Please share your thoughs.
I'd either have to go with the Dina Viaggio, or the bus with the sliding front door (I think it's the Van Hool, but it might be the Neoplan).
I like the MC-9 styling, which I suppose is a very
conservative looking bus. Most of my experiences
with these buses are on my trips down to Florida on Greyhound. There just seems to be something
familiar and reliable about the older style bus.
The newer style MCI G coach that will go into
service on Greyhound looks too stylish to my eyes.
The MC-9's on Greyhound with their varied series of
numbers just seem to be old, experienced friends.
From MCI I like the 102D3. I was also very fond of the Eagle 05. My all time favorite is the Grumman 870/Flxible Metro. GM's fishbowls (especially the last generation) are a close second place.
Wayne
For me, Prevost's H-series is tops--all others are imitators. MCI's E-series Rennaisance is a poor attempt to compete with the H3-45. Harran has a couple with fantastic paint schemes, along with the standard red with the NYC skyline/Montauk lighthouse. It's H3-40/45/60 all the way for me.
Saw 5243 on the B67 today at 370 Jay St. It had a JG sticker. Saw the same bus on the same route in front of the same place on Thursday. Saw 5230 at the B65 bus stop at Fulton and Adams. It had a KB sticker on it. Saw 9432 on the B63 at Atlantic and Flatbush. 9432 is out of Flatbush depot. Does JG still have transfer buses?????
B46M Limited
9432 was a transfer bus but 5243 you saw was theirs, they are getting some 52xx buses to keep. I think KB is getting some 37xx's and 46xx's in exchange. Bad deal. It looks like KB=UP(no offense Ulmer Park workers)
Peace Out
-Clayton
KB takes care of their buses as opposed to UP.
They won't stay long since KB is getting new ARTIC's so they will probably be sent to the scrap/storage line in a few months. Check out TransiTALK for some new pics just added from JG taken by me and my family. http://www.geocities.com/transitalk.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Co-Webmaster/Photographer
TransiTALK Platinum Y2K
JG has 20 borrowed buses from the four other Brooklyn Division depots (5 each). The 5200's from KB are permenantly assigned and are NOT going back. In fact, I spotted 4610 on the Bx36 w/KB logos on X-mas Eve. I don't have the complete borrowed list in front of me. I'll post it tomorrow.
I was wondering if school districts weren't so niggardly, if they could use busses like MCIs to transport children to school. School busses must be BANNED and sold to a third world country. Better yet, they should all be destroyed.
If there was a tuition for public schools maybe they would get MCI's. I know school buses are very very unsafe. At least public schools get transportation.
Peace Out
-Clayton
"I know school buses are very very unsafe."
Unsafe? UNSAFE?!? School buses are proven to be the SAFEST vehicles on the road!
Depends on the accident. A school bus is just a box bolted to a frame, just like a Ryder truck. A rollover will destroy the vehicle and do serious damage to the occupants. If hit hard enough by an SUV, the body can detach from the frame.
A transit bus, on the other hand, is built like a unibody, the frame is part of the vehicle. Most of the body is solidly attached to the frame. It, to, will not do too well in a rollover, but a more 'standard' impact will not cause the body to detach.
-Hank
Good points, Hank.
Transit buses up to the late 1970's had a "frame" which was actually part of the roof and sides, and the flooring was suspended from the
side frame members by cross-pieces. The GM fishbowls would show stress damage in the area just above the front doors, and the front door area would start sagging -- particularly on the first series (4516/4517/5301/5302) where the standee windows went further to the front (and afforded less body strength as a result).
The GM RTS is a stainless-steel, modular box-frame consctruction, with five-foot modules welded together. The other manufacturers use more of a standard frame-under-the-floor construction nowadays, but as Hank mentions, it is more of a "unibody" construction so the body will not break loose in a major collision.
You're school age and you actually LIKE school busses? Isn't 995 better? Or even an RTS?
"You're school age and you actually LIKE school busses? Isn't 995 better? Or even an RTS?"
I never said I liked them, I just said that they're proven safer. Like them? Never!
If the bus is safer, then the body can be used, and the inside of the bus can be improved, if only air conditioning is added and nothing else, then that would be great.
Only until the sixth grade. After that you have to ride the good busses.
Depends on where you live. Most students on Staten Island take the cheese bus until High School. Until the s74 was rerouted recently, some HS students took a cheese bus 'shuttle' to get to the city bus that got them to school.
-Hank
"Depends on where you live."
And also where you go to school, they're not always in the same area. Or borough for that matter.
What would be the point in replacing yellow school buses with MCI's? If you were to use the MCI buses the MTA bought, that's $376,000 probably without the video system that you would want to play MTV or rapid transit videos for the young people's entertainment? Is your suggestion based on appearance considerations, that a MCI looks classier than an ordinary school bus? As far as the school boards being cheap, well the bus is just a means to get from home to school. Do the kids need over head luggage racks, airconditioning, and adjustable seats, Considering that the buses are not utilized a lot during the day and when school is not in session, is this a good investment for the money?
Do you have statistics that show that school buses are safety hazards and should be destroyed? If you do, then perhaps you have an issue that really would challenge the priorities of this country. Americans are quick to talk about protecting young children, but can you prove to them that they are sending their children to school in death traps?
"Do the kids need over head luggage racks, airconditioning, and adjustable seats"
YES, Air conditioning is needed, EVERYBODY needs air conditioning. Luggage racks are great for placing backpacks, which all students in elementary school have and adjustable seats add a level of comfort. After all, the express bus is just a means to get from home to work. Why should the grown ups going to work on Wall Street get the plush stuff? If I had children, I'd GLADLY pay an extra $6 a day in property taxes so my children wouldn't be subjected to riding in something worse than the Indian National Railway. The parallel branch of this thread includes discussion of bus safety.
On 6011 (Orion) the other day, I noticed it had a Novabus steering wheel (the one with the horn beeing the Novabus logo, I think this is also seen on the 9000-9200's). Any ideas why it's there, and is it on any other buses?
Having never seen an Orion 5 steering wheel, I am going to assume that they are the same ones that seem to be in almost every other type of transit bus.
I drive New Flyers regularly, and they use the same exact steering wheel as Flxible Metro buses -- with the exception that the little logo in the hub of the wheel. That little logo is a self-adhesive piece of plastic.
Is this what you are referring to?
Somewhat. How can plastic be self-adhesive?
Heck, I dunno. But they stick to everything, those little buttons in the steering wheels. Peel the backing off, and they stick. I tried to remove one once with a picketknife, and broke the blade of the knife!
The plastic isn't self adhesive, but the sticker is! The sticker = plastic and glue.
I was on 418 this afternoon. It has a Nova Bus steering wheel too. From what I remember from my early teens, I heard that the steering wheels were a standard part when I was equally as inquisitive and asked why a GMC steering wheel would be on a Grumman Flxible.
Why the heck are there the bus number on top of the bus?
They are there so that police can identify a bus from the air, i.e. if they are using a helicopter or airplane, in case of a problem.
Oh, thanks :)
It also helps the dispatchers when the buses are pulling in. Ferinstance, they can watch from the office at Yukon when someone loses something on the bus, they can ID the bus before it gets put into the haystack that the depot becomes.
-Hank
In the newer orions, the back-center seat isn't there, but there's a weird box that says "DO NOT SIT HERE". Does anyone know why that box is there?
The center seat is missing on those Orion V's with the Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine. My thoughts were that it was some sort of clearance problem.
Wayne
They have it on the Orions here in DC with their numbers in the 4000s (not the 3000s).
Now that's interesting. It's possible that the WMATA 30 foot Orion V's may have a smaller displacement engine??? I've ridden penty of the the 4200-4400's, but I haven't ridden any of the 3900's.
Wayne
I Haven't ridden them and couldn't say. They were on the E6 and N6 (on weekends) near my house, but now, those routes are run with the low floor hybrids.
Sortof. As I understand it, instead of a 'V-drive' system, where te driveshaft from the tranny comes to the differential from the side at an angle, these buses have a 'T-drive' system, where the driveshaft comes from the tranny into the top rear of the differential.
-Hank
Hello:
If you know of a private owner of any NYC fishbowls or old look busses, could you please e-mail the info to my e-mail address. Thanks would really appreciate it..
All the best
Bill
Get up to Connecticut and check out Double A bus. In the Hartford area. It is run by a real bus enthusiast and he maintains quite a collection of vehicles, both active and museum.
Joe C
You can also check out Double A's web site at:
http://www.doublea.com/main.htm
They have bus #1576, an ex-TA 1981 RTS. I don't think they've got any other ex-TA buses, but there are many others in an extensive collection. There is a list on the web site.
I checked out a couple bus rosters on the Web, mainly Ohio Transit Museau and GEO Cities. Under GMC Old Look both are missing 2 NYCTA busses. Couuld someone give the then Numbers of the 1958 9000 series, and does anyone know the model numbers of GMC between TDH4512 to the first new look. I also would like to know is there a roster on the old Trolley busses in Brookln. Thank you
Between the TDH4512 and New Look tpes:
TDH4512 TDM4512
TDH4515 TDM4515
TDH4801 TDM4801
TDH5101
TDH5102
TDH5103 TDM5204
TDH5104 TDM5104
TDH5105 TDM5105
TDH5106 TDM5106
TDH5107 TDM5107
TDH5108 TDM5108
TDH5502
No models 4513 or 4514.
For some strange reason, the dates I have for the 5107's are much earlier than those of the 5103/5104's. I always thought they did things in order, but this seems to be a variation.
NYCTA 9000 series:
9000 to 9021 were TDH5106-1569 through -1590 (8/58)
9022 to 9120 were TDH5106-1470 through -1568 (9/58)
Thanks Steve, I found the same thing too. I am now looking for Rosters of all New Look Flexibles or any other mfg on the city busses except GMC between 1959-1975. Does anyone have a list.
Bus Rosters on the Web has a 1978 snapshot roster of the NYC TA buses, which should give you the info you want. To get to it, go:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9036/NYCTA78.html
A roster for nyc trolley buses can be found in the joe testagrossa
collection.He has a whole section on them complete with pictures.
This would be found in the bus section of nycsubwayorg
ANDY
Thanks Andy i found it
As promised here is a list of JG's borrowed buses:
9181-9185 (FP)
9032, 9048, 9066, 9075, 9076. (ENY)
9087, 9094, 9103, 9105, 9108. (UP)
9393, 9403, 9415, 9432, 9434. (FLA)
5230-5249 are permenantly (which isn't too long in TA vernacular) assigned to JG. In return, KB has received, 3036, 3162, 3657, 3693, 3717 (seen Xmas Day on Bx3), 4034, 4045, 4056, 4601, 4603, 4606-4615, 4617-4619. Bus 4610 was spotted on W.181 Street with KB logos.
So there you have it.
I was on bus 3036 on the B51 a few weeks back and noticed that the passenger side had a Flatbush depot sticker. I was guessing that it was on loan from Flatbush, but I guess not. I wonder what depot sticker it has on now that it is in Kingsbridge.
3036 used to be with Flatbush
B46M Limited
Also FP.
MM2000
The 9000's Are hear to say. I spook to the AGM of Jackie Gleason and he sayed there hear untill the CGN all come in.
who you calling a spook!!!
is SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA the only place where the transit buses
are all scratched up ALL THE WINDOWS until you cant even see
anymore where your next stop is ??
the buses in new york and new jersey were clean and scratch window free !!!!!!
i mean you cant even see where your next stop is !!!
and the service is the worst and slowest in the u s a !!
i mean it is so bad you cant see out ?? this happening anywhere else ??
Casey Stengel buses here in Queens have to be the worst in that category. Inside and outside graffiti. All u need are roaches. 258 there has to be the worst, peeling paint, dirty appearance, in and out graffiti, broken sign, broken lights, the list goes on.
MM2000
Yep, those stinky Stengal Orions sure add to Flushing's already stellar appearance.
It's a coin toss between GBL's buses and Stinky Stengel's....
WHatis a good score for the exam? How soon do they call you?????
B46M Limited
The highest score you get than they will call you in 6 or 12 months from now. Depend on what score & number of waiting list. For example: if i have 95% on the test & my number list is 100 than i should be call in 6 months or later.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
A friend of mine just got his notification in the mail from the may 1999 test. He's in the 400's and scored a 96.25.
According to the Chief, the list is 16,000 names long. There is also a 130 name promotion list (from what??) to be used before the open competitive list.
The chief also states the old list (6022 from may 1997) will be active till January 2001.
When is the next bus operator exam?
MM2000
THE LAST TEST WAS MADE OPEN TO CLEANERS AND HELPERS AS A PROMOTION THEY GET THE FIRST OPENINGS.
For a long time I have noticed the roll signs on the DOT RTS buses are grossly inaccurate. For example, I rode Green RTS #607 on the Q6 today. The front sign read: "Q6 FARMERS BLVD". The Q6 at one time DID actually terminate at Farmers and Rockaway Blvds, but the route was extended to the JFK Airport Post Office years ago (1985 maybe??). This has been a pet-peeve of mine for a long time now. TCC's Jackson Heights lines read "74 STREET IND-BMT-IRT". Maybe that's nit-picking a little but I feel that those signs are in grave need of an update.
Comments??
I am curious,,,
There are updated signs
example
Q6 SUTPHIN
JFK Airport- POST OFFICE
Q6 SUPTPHIN
ROCKAWAY BL--BAISLEY PARK
Q33 82 ST
ROOSEVELT AV-JACKSON HTS
SUBWAYS TO MANHATTAN
Q45 73 ST
ROOSEVELT AV-JACKSHON HTS
SUBWAYS TO MANHATTAN
ETC
You dont see these in your area???
I have seen a couple of the new TCC roll signs, but not GBL's. Its just the same old garbage there. I also spotted the Q66 21 STREET sign, however, all the othe QSC signs are status-quo.
I am truly disappointed with GBL, and I feel that the TA should takeover some of its routes--especially the Rockaway Division. Green should only operate such lines as the Q10, Q11, Q37 and Q60, where their better equipment seems to always show up, as well as its express routes. In my fantasy world, Q22 and Q35 would be operated by FLA, perhaps even merging the two routes or have the Q22 pull-in and pull-out (no relief point). The Q21 could be a toss-up between JAM, FP and ENY. The Q6, 9, 40, and 41 could go to JAM (where there is absolutely no space, though) and the Q7 and 8 to ENY after maybe being extended to Bway Jct. I know this is far-fetched, but anything would be better than the filthy, smoky, clouded windowed RTS's with inaccurate signs. Speaking of signs that BS with the Orions is inexcusable.
GBL SUX.
Comments
They could take the Rockaway Depot of Green and rebuild it from the ground up.
They could eliminate the Q 35, Extend the B-2 Ave R to Reis Park, I am sure people would be happier with Express Connectionms from the D/Q then local service on the IRT.
An extension of the B2 to Rockaway Park would be a pretty good idea, however, wouldn't the people lose direct express connections to the East Side IRT via the #5 train? I must say though, your idea is a pretty shrewd one.
Actually the 5 is in Rush Hours, it connects to the 2. But it is a shorter distance from Kings Plaza to the D/Q then to Nostrand. And faster service into the city. They could always change to the 41 at Kings Plaza to get to Nostrand. Station.
And they would have to pay a double fare to take two busses to the train.
Thats what Metro Cards are for. You buy a unlimited weekly or monthly pass so you do not have to pay double or triple fares
Unless you ride an additional 3 times over riding EVERY weekday twice INCLUDING HOLIDAYS, then you would be spending more money anyway.
In the event Green Lines is taken over by the TA the Q-35 will be left alone.
The only change that will ever happen to the B-2 will be a consolidation with the B-100 if Command is taken over by the TA.
The idea of the B-2 going to the Rockaways is dead.
Well, dead or not (the B2 idea), the guy at least showed some creativity. Give him credit for that.
I have informed some of the BusTalkers (you know who you are) that on 12/9, I was "dismissed." According to the wonderful world of TA/TWU, this is not the same as being fired, although for most intents and purposes, it is.
After being dismissed, I went to Seattle for a week (paid vacation- missed all the pre-strike tension).
When I returned from vacation, I was "off" on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday while the TWU made arrangements to get me back on the job. On Friday, I was reinstated and assigned the last run on the 23 Street crosstown line. And I was assigned "Millenium" duty and thereby getting Saturday, Sunday and Monday off. On 12/28, I return to my regular run, 109/32.
My co-workers are jealous.
YOU GO BOY!!!!
Trevor
Its another super-hyped Update at Transit with plenty of new surprises. Check it out!
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk/NYCTransit.html
Regards,
Trevor Logan
Founder/Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK
Thought I would pass this on to anyone trying to get the 2000 bus caldenders. I called bus customer relations and was told they are out of the calenders. However she told me that there will be NYC Transit calenders very shortly. Have a happy and healthy New Years!
Eye asked for one a couple of weeks ago and received same.
FYI, Not too much re photos of buses ... various shots of staff doing work, e.g. welding, painting, wheel cleaning, dispatcher at TV.
Mr t__:^)
Just returned from a 10 day stay with friends in Coconut Creek section of Broward County.
Some interesting observations.... Broward County Transit Authority is white with an orange and a blue stripe, very similar to LI Bus. Some Orions and New Flyer Low Floors but believe it or not a good % of their operating fleet is Flxible 870's in great condition.
At Ft. Lauderdale Airport - Hertz uses New Flyer Low Floors, Avis is still using RTS's and Alamo uses a mix of Blue Bird, Gilligs and Orions.
As for BCMTD using almost the same as MTA LI Bus striping, I believe Long Island had it first.
The agency where I drive out here in California uses the same exact striping as MTA LI Bus did in 1989 -- though wer started using it about six years ago. Another place I have seen it, is up in Ontario, Canada -- I thing is is Burlington, ON that has it.
I believe they have Gilligs, not Orions. You can see a photo of one of their Low-Floor New Flyers on my photo page at TransiTALK. You can find it at:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Highway/2087/Sid.html
This is the 9,996th post on BT. Three more posts 'till we reach the big 10-thousad-oh!
This is bustalk's 9,996th post! Just 3 more posts 'till we reach the big 10-thousand-oh!
Saw this bus across the street from my job on Water St. What is weird is that no Command buses run on Water St. Only Qm11 and Qm1 which is part of Queens Surface. Also the X14,15,18,and 20 busses from SI.........
B46M Limited
Maybe the Operator got to Manhattan early and put the bus on Water Street to keep it out of the way until it was time to get to the first time.
David
[Saw this bus across the street from my job on Water St. What is weird is that no Command buses run on Water St. Only Qm11 and Qm1 which is part of Queens Surface. Also the X14,15,18,and 20 busses from SI.........
B46M Limited]
Oops...meant first STOP, not first TIME, at the end there :-)
David
Which 4956 are you talking about: At Command or the MTA? There are 2 4956 buses.
MM2000
I did state in m post that it was Command..........
B46M Limited
Yes, it was parked nicely on the street and no one was inside.......
B46M Limited
I saw this bus on the Bx10 yesterday on my way to Hunter Mountain, it was on the service road. They're coming in fast.
Peace Out
-Clayton
Does anyone know if Jackie Gl is running any of
their 99 orions? Also: Next year will Jackie Gl be
getting new orion natural gas buses-and if so, when?
EVERYTHING IS RUNNING AT JG THE CNG FUEL STATION IS BACK ONLINE.
First of all Jackie Gleason only has 37 Orions CNG and 57 New Flyer LF CNG. Jackie Gleason will be getting the rest of the 190 New Flyer LF in, in 2000.
The 1999 Orions (6000-6349) that JG had were not their's. They were borrowed from Yukon and Castleton Depots during the CNG tank fiasco, and have since been returned.
Gleason currently operates 31 Orions--one 1993 CNG Orion V (#317), and 30 1995 CNG Orion V's (#'s 581-610). It has not been determined if any more CNG Orions V's or VI's will go there in the future.
In the past week I have been on 2 NYC artics for the first. Both times it was 1002 and both times on the M79. I am sure that these buses will be a good thing as their numbers increase on NYC streets. But I noticed that they take FOREVER to load. With significantly increased capacity and the same two doors that would be found on a standard 40 footer, they are bound to be much slower in service. They move great when in motion, but they seem to be stopped most of the time. I have noticed that many other artic operating cities in the US and Europe use buses with three doors: front, center and rear. Why did NYC get the 2-door version?
Yesterday, before catching 1002 on the M79 in the late afternoon, I saw the same bus running westbound on 23rd Street, heading across 9th Ave toward 10th. It didn't appear to be in passenger service. I've seen lots of empty artics heading down 9th Ave and turning east on 23rd Street recently. Why all these training buses in Chelsea? Are we going to see any in passenger service down here any time soon?
The Artics are training on M23 w/o passenger because by middle of next month Artics buses will be running on M23. M23 is from Hudson Depot is going to West Side Depot for M34 starting on Jan 16, 2000. You will see Artics buses running on M23, M42, M79, M86 & maybe M102 also M15.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
I thought they could only run on crosstown routes north of 42nd Street. When I said they should be on the M1-3, M15, and M101-103, I was told that wasn't possible. Why is it going to happen now? I also heard they would be on the M96/106 soon.
Why don't they move the M14 to WS and put artics on THAT? That would be a lot more useful!
Patience, friend...patience :-)
David
[Why don't they move the M14 to WS and put artics on THAT? That would be a lot more useful!]
I agree with you David! I think the day will come soon. I will be patient and await the day!
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Co-Webmaster/Photographer
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
I was away for the past 2 weeks so I don't know if this was posted but I passed Atlantic Deisel in Bohemia and 1007 is sitting there which looks like it had some engine fire.
Bohemia is in Long Island or New Jersey?
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Long Island, Suffolk County.
I saw it on Thursday.
At Atlantic Diesel? I saw it sitting there off the street on Dec. 21 on my way to MacArthur Airport and was still sitting there when I was returning on the 31st. I also had seen an RTS there on the 21st. but don't remember the full number (306?).
Happy New Year to all!
Rich
It was in the same exact spot. The only other bus outside was a Suffolk Transit 96???
Click here. Sorry it is addressed to SubTalk and subway rides.
As Smokey Robinson sings " I second that emotion ". To David P. thanx for all your time and effort in this labor of love....
To all other Bus-Talkers....thanx for all your comments to my posts and the goodwill and spirit it was done in....I have learned alot about buses...thanx for the education. G-d willing, I will be at Bus Fest 2000 and any Roadeo's that take place in 2000.
Does anyoe know what routes were assigned to 54th and walnut depots before they closed?
Walnut
Bx4,Bx5,Bx11,Bx15,Bx17,Bx19,Bx21,Bx27,Bx32,Bx33,Bx35,Bx36,Bx54
54th Street
M6,M17,M28,M30,M32,M106. I may have left out some but I think that's at least close to all of them.
Wayne
Where was the 54st depot?
9th av 53rd 54th streets
54th Street! (and Ninth Avenue)
David
[Where was the 54st depot?]
54th Street Depot is on 54st & 9 Ave & now they are building Command Center for MTA.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
When was it closed? What depot replaced it?
54th Street Depot close around early 1980 & there were no Depot replaced.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
It closed in the late 1980s or around 1990.
54th Street closed when the rebuilt 132 Street Depot now known as Manhattanville Reopened in late 1992 or early 1993
54th Street had the following lines before the depot closed.
The M10,M11,M23,M28,M30,M79(M17) and M 103.
As the depot closed the M28 became the M-57 and the M-103 which was the 59th Street Crosstown was discontinued)
The M-6,Q-32(M32) and M42(M106) were transferred from 54th Street to Hudson in the Fall of 1986 after the forced closing of 132nd Street in June of that year and the reorgainzation of Manhatan MABSTOA ROUTES. The Old W.132 St depot was closed for usage but the depot was open for drivers and dispatchers from June to October with the buses parked in different depots M-3 to 146 th St,M-4 to Hudson and M-5 to the old KIngsbridge.
The M5 in KB was quite a sight. I recall the old 2500-series RTS's, and the newer 4300's running on 5th Avenue and Broadway. Boy, did they look out of place. Which reminds me of other routes which took a particular depot's buses WAY out of their territory. Can anyone recall the wierdest ones? The M5 at KB is a classic.
I always though it was odd that the M22 in lower Manhattan and M27 in midtown operated out of 126th Street. It would've made sense for the be be assigned to Hudson and 54th Street (when it was still open).
I also thought the old Bx34 which operated out of KB probably should've operated out of WF.
Wayne
The M22 and M27 were TA lines out of 126th Street before Mabstoa took over 5th Avenue Coach and Surface Transit. It is only fairly recently that they were taken out of 126th Street and assigned to Mabstoa Depots (Hudson Pier and Westside, respectively).
I was thinking of this during the time that MABSTOA existed.
Wayne
The q89 also ran out of FFS if I am not mistaken correct
[The q89 also ran out of FFS if I am not mistaken correct]
Yes, you're correct - The Q89 did operate out of FFS. I beleive I also left out the M103.
[The q89 also ran out of FFS if I am not mistaken correct]
Yes, you're correct - The Q89 did operate out of FFS. I beleive I also left out the M103.
Wayne
"I beleive I also left out the M103."
The M103 didn't start till a couple of years ago.
[The M103 didn't start till a couple of years ago.]
Yes the current M103 is a relatively new route, but years ago their was an old M103. It was the 59th Street Crosstown route.
Wayne
Ohhhh the M103!
Good Evening,
Does anyone have routing details of these 2 routes (bidirectionalroutings )
Thank you
Steve
if memory serves me right B80 Washington Plaza-Worlds Fair B81 Flatbush-Nostrand Avs=WF
I also remember they introduced the 25cent fare and were the first "limited stop" buses. They had new fare boxes (since replaced by MetroCard Fareboxes)that could take quarters. I knew the fare was going up on regular buses when I started seeing new fareboxes on regular bus routes.
The WF bus lines were packed--usually by the time they got to the stop nearest me they were full and did not stop (meaning we had to use the subway many times :-) rather than the bus.)
Does anyone have the Routing Details
Steve (thank you)
Can someone advise of what streets Buses enter each depot and exit each depot
Example,,Flatbush Buses enter and exit their routes on Fillmore Av ( I think??).
Thanks
Steve
The only entry to Yukon Depot is on Yukon Ave. However, they do line the buses up for pull-in along Richmond Hill Rd.
-Hank
Let me take a shot at this:
Queens
CS--Enter/exit: 126 Street
JA--Enter/exit: 107 Avenue
QV--Enter: 222 Street Exit: 97 Avenue
Brooklyn
EN--Enter: Jamaica Avenue AND Georgia Avenue. Exit: Jamaica Avenue
FP--Enter/exit: ???? Right of Way
FLA--Enter/exit: Fillmore Avenue
JG--Enter/exit: 36 Street
UP--Enter/exit: Harway Avenue
Manhattan
WS--???
MV--Enter: 12 Avenue Exit: 132/133 Streets
HUD--Enter/exit: W. 15 Street
126--Enter: 126 Street Exit: 2 Avenue or E.128 Street or E. 127 Street (three different parking areas)
Bronx
AMS--Enter: W. 128 Street Exit: Amsterdam Avenue
MCH--Enter/exit: Lenox Avenue
GH--Enter: Ely Avenue Exit: Ely Avenue or Edson Avenue
KB--Enter/exit: 9th Avenue
Staten Island
CAS--Enter: (the street in the back whose name escapes me) Exit: Castelton Avenue
YUK--Enter/exit: Yukon Avenue
Manhattanville,they can exit on 132 AND 133 Street ??
Please verify
Thank you
Does anyone know WestSide
Steve
westside
43rd st and 11th av
westside...enter or exit on either 41st or 40th street
West Side Depot enter at 41st & exit 40st going east & 41st going west.
Peace Out
David Justininao
"HUD--Enter/exit: W. 15 Street"
15th Street and West Street.
"UP--Enter/exit: Harway Avenue"
I think I recall the entrance on 25th Avenue.
No the UP entrance is on Harway. There is nothing on 25th.
There is a exit door on 25th Avenue used for busses coming out of the bus wash and being parked in the Bay 38 St yard. It is used mostly in the late morning and evening when the Express Coaches return from the city and sometimes by local busses.
Does anyone have the exact routings,I saw some discrepancies on the NEW schedule's Maps
Thanks
Steve
May all of you wonderful transit buffs have a blessed and peaceful New Years.
Regards,
Trevor Logan, Kevin Barsky, DaShawn Pretlow, Gary Chatterton, Jason Benedetto, Avery Carter, Brian Cruz-Wardy
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk/
You too!
Same to you!!!! Hoping to meet the whole staff!!!!!!
B46M Limited
Happy new year to everybody out there!!! Keep up the good work in 2000 TransiTalk!!!!
M79 "articulated" aka. Clark Palicka
To TransiTALK Staffs: I got a question for you what kind of camera do you use for taking pictures of Buses & Subways? Just post is here.
We use professional Zoom cameras made by Fuji, Vivtar and Olympus! We also use the highest quality films, 800-1600-and even 3200 speed films!
Trevor
I use it ,,all the time ,for references
Thanks much appreciated!
Regards
Trevor Logan
TransiTALK
Founder & Co-Webmaster
I noticed when the drivers on the M14 switch, they do it on 15th between 9th and 10th, not at 18th and West (and the sign said to chelsea piers) can anyone please tell me why they do this?
Even before they did the extention to Chelsea Piers, that was always the driver change point. This is the closest point to Hudson Pier Depot and then from there they proceed to Piers. Plus at night the ramp line for Hudson winds up that far over also. Hope that helps.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Co-Webmaster/Photographer
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
Is it true Flxible is gonna be taken over my MCI?
There is no Flxible to be taken over by anyone. It's gone. The parts business was sold off, I believe to MCI.
David
[Is it true Flxible is gonna be taken over my MCI?]
The Flxible METRO Design and Flxible Parts has been bought by MCI! back in 1996 this took place, since then there has been talks of bring back the METRO design bus, BUT it has only been talks, nothing has been carved in stone yet. BUT IT IS TRUE, MCI DID BY THE Flxible METRO Design and the Flxible Parts Divison.
Trevor
Flible is like a Phoenix, how may times over the years has it come back under new ownership, going back to the Fago Twin Coach Days?
For the past week, there's been a Jackie Gleason Bus (GMC/RTS or Nova) parked on Van Sinderen Ave., just outside of the entrance to the A/C/J/L Broadway/East New York station. It's stayed in the same spot all this time - it doesn't look like it's moved. There are no JG routes that come through there, to my knowledge. Does anyone know why it's there?
Its a scrap bus, Your talking bout the 3000 series GMC RTS-04 parked outside the station, I have a pick of this bus, if you look inside of her, she has keep parts missing already!
Trevor
While i was looking at TransiTALK's Bus Page & i saw a picture of RTS-06 Hybird #9900. I never knew they made that bus in the past & when did they ran? What Depot that bus went to? The Exit door are diffirent. Please just post this.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
PS: Trevor you need to fix your page because some of your pictures didn't come out.
This bus was operated out of Manhttanville depot in mid to late 1998 and a small portion of 1999 and then was sent back. This bus ran on the M60, and the M5 also, but was always hard to catch and spot. A similar situation with 8397 which was spoted by Trevor yesterday afternoon on the M5. She has been modified to look like the current RTS with LED destination signs and marker lights and still retains the aluminum wheels.
Peace & Blessings
DaShawn
Co-Webmaster/Photographer
TransiTALK Platinum 2000
I saw 8397 on Tues.at 14th Street and 3rd Avenue heading S/B on the M101.Looks far better now than it at Stengal way back when
That was the bus I shot last Dec. It was marching across 125th on the
"60" to LaGuardia. It was in perfect view too. I noticed the pod on the roof as the bus headed toward me on 125th near the T.A.bus garage.
Then I noticed the rear door.
Wow.
Joe C
I never liked the "standard" RTS rear door.
I always thought the type the TA has is more attractive.
I think some LAMTA RTS buses also have that type of door.
What other transit agencies have the "TA"-type on their RTS's?*
Washington DC Metrobus, Miami METRO-DADE, and a few others have that "TA" type door (which the specification name for that door is the Swing-Type Rear Door, the RTS standard rear door is called the Plug-Type Rear Door).
Trevor
What's the difference?
The Plug Doors open up like the front door (NJT and Bee Line uses this kinda off door). The Swing out is the TA standard rear door!
Trevor
NYU also uses plug-type doors on the RTS's they have. (Some of their fleet is Blue-Bird.)
Those buses are owned by some arm of CoachUSA, AKA Octobus Inc.
-Hank
Those NYU Buses are owned by Coach USA's Grey Line and Red & Tan!
Trevor
It's a 1983 GM RTS and is garaged at CoachUSA/Red & Tan in Jersey City
Long Bech Transit in California also has the same type of door as NYCTA.
please send me the pic of #9900 if you can.
thank u
To see a picture of 9900 go to the TransiTALK main page, the picture is by our own Jason Benedetto!
at TransiTALK or
To see it on TransiTALK by itself.
Trevor
To see a picture of 9900 go to the TransiTALK main page, the picture is by our own Jason Benedetto!
at TransiTALK or
To see it on TransiTALK by itself.
Trevor
If and when Green Lines is taken over by the Transit Authority the following will happen.
The Green Line depot on Rockaway Blvd will be taken over by the TA.
The Rockaway Depot will be closed.
Because Green Lines drivers are ATU and not TWU the Routes will be taken over by the Queens Division which is also ATU. Since the drivers can not work for the Queens Division because of Civil Service rules I believe they will be placed in MABSTOA or be required to take a New test. That is a legal question I can't answer.
The Green Line routes will be assigned to its depot with the exception of the Q-8 which will go to Jamaica and the TA Q-3 going to the Green Line Depot.
The Rockaway Q-21 and Q-22 will also go to Green Line Depot.
The Q-35 however will go to Flatbush Depot in Brooklyn because they will work out a deal for the jobs.
That sounds pretty good. Anything would be better than the dreck that is operated by GBL now. I suppose the Q22 would run on/off via Rockaway Blvd, Rockaway Tpke, and the Nassau Expwy to Far Rockaway.
The other stuff sounds feasible, but what about the express routes: QM15, 16, 17, 18 and 23? They would of course be renumbered into the X-series if the TA gets them. Otherwise, I guess TCC, JBL or even Command could take them over.
Yesterday, I took a ride on one of the newer (5000 series) Artic busses. I noticed that the seats and walls were lined by a cloth-like velvet material.
Is this standard on all of the newer busses? I couldn't seem to catch a return ride on another one - only 1000 series busses seemed to arrive.
Not to sound pessimistic, but aren't cloth seats an open inivitation to being vandalized? It's a shame to say that, especially since other city busses/subways can have those features and more but anyway....
Thanks.
I've never ridden one of the new artics (or an artic at all, for that matter), but are they like the padded seats on the Novas? If so, they're supposed to be Vandal resistant.
They are exactly like the padded seats on the novas. The 99 model orions and new flyer low-floors have them as well (I've ridden on them many times)
They're not padded seats, they're just upholstered. The only padded seats are on the express busses (MCI or Orion V) and the Orion VI.
"The only padded seats are on the express busses (MCI or Orion V)"
Don't forget the express Nova's.
It's a kind of industrial carpeting, made to take some serious abuse. It's on the walls of the buses the keep them from getting scratched up. It's been retrofitted to several of the 1000 series D60s as well.
-Hank
Is the TA planning on ordering any regular diesel Novas or Orions anywhere in the near future? If so, what depots will they go to?
The November 1999 issue of At Your Service has an article on the $17.5 Billion Capital Budget Plan, which includes the planned purchase of 1,056 new buses. They are broken down to 400 new articulated buses, 356 high-capacity express coaches and 300 standard buses to be powered by clean-fuel.
What types of buses will the CNG's be, and where will they go?
Same for arctic and exp coaches.
Is there any list acessible on the web that says what runs/routes drivers have?
Last night, I saw this bus along Northern Blvd and the ad on the passenger side glew in the dark. I think it was for something Y2K related but I didn't get to read the whole ad- (it might have been for some type of sneakers). Can anybody clarify this? Also, I saw 509 in the same spot as I saw 516 with Q34 signs.
MM2000
The November 1999 issue of At Your Service has an article on the $17.5 Billion Capital Budget Plan, which includes the planned purchase of 1,056 new buses. This includes 356 high-capacity express coaches. I just reviewed the UTC NYCTA Bus Roster and counted the number of existing express buses in service that are 1993 Orions or older, and the sum is approximately 159. Why does the TA need 356 additional express coaches in the next 5 years? Do they see that much of an expansion of express service? Will the 20 1995 Orion and 100 1997 Nova express buses be converted to transit use? Any thoughts?
they need they extra buses, especially in brooklyn, manhattan and queens, where they continue to operate older GMC RTS's(1700's,1800's and 3800's). The Orions may go to Ulmer Park to help relieve express service(one can hope). But if anyone knows what Ulmer Park will get to replace the older RTS's express buses, let me know.
The implication in the MTA capital plan is that by 2004 all express routes will be served by MCI coaches or equivalent coach style equipment. The MCI coaches only serve the S.I.express routes at this time.
My point is that even if all present express buses from the 1993 Orions and older are replaced by 2004, that still leaves almost 200 extra MCI coaches (assuming that's all they get) on the NYCTA roster by the end of 2004 (and the 72 1993 Orions aren't really old enough to be retired by then, meaning about 269 extra express coaches). Unless my math is wrong, I can't figure out why the TA needs that many express coaches.
The MTA must be considering increased service on existing x-bus routes, plus Additional routes on Staten Island and in eastern Queens. That's a lot of expensive equipment to just have laying around.
I count 279 40 foot express coaches on the roster, including the newer orions and rts's. Total conversion to MCI style high capacity coaches would replace the 279 with 356 coaches. With the way express ridership has been growing, it is easy to see the need for 67 additional express coaches for growth by 2004. The 20 orions and 100 rts's could easily be converted to local seating for local use on their midlife upgrade.
I'm not sure, but I think that the MTA leased the current MCI's for seven years. If that is correct, then the lease for the 180 1998 Model MCI's would expire in 2004. At that time, I think they are supposed to be returned to MCI. Perhaps the 356 planned to be ordered will replace the 180 in 2004??
Happy New Year to everyone on Bustalk!!!
after looking at the UTC bus roster for the city, it says that #997 is assigned to Yukon Depot in Staten Island. I havent seen the bus yet, nor been on it. If anyone has the pic, please send it to me.
I was the one that told UTC that 997 was in. I saw her 3 times, the first time in front of MTA headquarters on Madison Ave, again at E NY and then two days ago on the X17! I did not state however that it was at Yukon! I still think they park her at E NY! But I have seen her on 3 separate occasions! NO Pic taken, SORRY!
Trevor
Does anyone have any information or pics of these buses? I am restoring PO bus # 20, T6H 5307A 127 and need some details
Can anybody give me the best depot in Bklyn as far as quality, service, attitude among the staff and employees? Especially FP?
B46M Limited
I think its a cross between East New York & Flatbush!
Trevor
Well ENY is literally up the street from me...........
B46M Limited
I have heard that Queens Surface and Triboro Coach are planning to merge. Does anybody know when and what logo the company will use?
Thanks
Clark Palicka
The merger is on a hold. from my source at queens surface. it just may not happen
Trevor
Thanks. Another thing, what's up with the new paint job on some of the new Triboro Coaches?
IT'S THERE NEW SCHEME!
TREVOR
Will all buses be painted like that. I personally like the old one better!!!
Clark
If it does happen, what name would they use? I think they should do a name merge. For example: Triboro Surface. Or Queens Coach. Even TriSurf or QueCoach.
How about back to Queensboro Surface Lines.
The acceptance of metrocard by private non-franchised express bus operators on Staten Island is being proposed. The MTA would be getting some needed competition which would keep up the pressure on them to maintain adequate service levels. The MTA would end up selling more Metrocards and would get a cut of the revenues. And we know how the MTA loves to get a cut of anyone's money.
From the Staten Island Advance -
http://www.silive.com/news/advance/1230bus29.html