On Saturday and Sunday, Queens Village depot had a bus at 179st and Hillside ave.This bus had a cannister on it, apparently containing cleaning supplies.There were personnel present to clean the front and side of any T.A. bus that passed by(Southbound direction only. The side being the first window) This was done because of Halloween. I was wondering if anybody knows if this was done anywhere else? BTW, bus#3906 was there on Saturday, 3947 on Sunday. Correction, the cannister contained cleaning solution.
Once those eggs get dry and hard it takes months for it to come off. So the stragedy is to get the eggs as soon as they get on. In Manhattan several points were set up at the end of lines to clean the buses. Including 147 St and Lenox and 6St and 3Av.
Hey Fernando, where do you hang out these days?
My post is just outside of Mother Hale depot at 146 St and Lenox Av. Im in charge of the M1,M7 and M102. Still working 3 to 11 Pm Tue Wed RDO's.
Hows everything Charles?
Not bad. Hoping you were in midtown. Still doing the commuting thing. In its 8th month now...
We have to meet for lunch again one of these days....
-Hank
From January to June I was in midtown in several locations including Penn Station and 12 Av and 42 St. I decided to go uptown since its closer to my home.
You have any old bus maps your willing to trade?
I will bring in most of what I have next week. I'll let you know what is there. Still always looking for signs and decals, number stickers, etc.
Couldn't read the numbers, but in passing by Triboro's garage last night around 1130pm on the Q33, I noticed that a couple of their RTS's had a new paint scheme.
Hello everyone,
I am new to manhattan and I seem to be having a problem finding the correct bus route from my home to my new job. I live right near the GW Bridge, next to the GW Bus Port authority (177 and Ft. Washington Heights) and I am trying to get to College Point Queens. Currently I have to take the A train, transfer to the 7 train, catch the Q25 at Main St, Flushing, then get off in College Point.
I am wondering, is there a better way to commute? Is there a bus that goes from Manhattan, over the Whitestone, and into where I have to get to?? I appreciate any and all wise advice!
Carlos
Carlos,
Believe it or not the route you're using now is probably the best. There is no direct bus service from Washington Heights to Queens. An alternate using buses only is to take the BX36 near the GWB Bus Station to West Farms Square (East Tremont Ave & Boston Road) in the Bronx, transfer to the Q-44, ride the Q-44 to Main Street & Northern Blvd. where you can then catch the Q25. Be aware that this will likely take longer and it's 2 fares in each direction.
Wayne
How about the a up to 207th street ,then the Bx12 over to Pelham Bay Pk then x-fering to the Qbx1-Doesn't that go near College Pt.
About the QBX-1 Going to College point, it depends on what you consider college point. The QBX-1 terminates at Main ST at 139th Avenue in Flushing.
Please proofread your message before posting. You mean Main St and
39th Ave. Main Street ends several miles south of 39th Ave when it becomes the Service Road of the Van Wyck Expy. 139th Avenue would be near JFK airport, not downtown Flushing. Your spot would be near where Green Bus Lines Q60 sign had their bus going into Jamaica Bay. See a post several days ago to see what I mean
Well SORRY mor making a typo. Everyone does it once on a while, even you. I know that's hard to belive.
Agreed, taking 3 busses is much longer and slower, use the subway the way you have been doing this and buy a weekly or monthly card and save money
Depending on exactly where in College Point you need to get to you might want to consider the "B" down to 34th then catch a Queens Surface Express bus QM-2 or QM-2A. After 57th & 3rd in Manhattan the next stop is College Point & Whitestone Expressway. Since you'll be doing a "reverse commute" there should be lots of seats. The Q25 stops at the same corner and goes further into College Point.
Cost, an unlimited local would be NG since it will cost a 1.50 "Step Up" fare, i.e. the express is $3.00. Therefore use a "value" MetroCard.
Mr t__:^)
P.S. I realized on the way home that this route could be an expensive one, i.e. $3.00 to get to College Point plus another 1.50 if you have to take the Q25.
So the only reason to take this route would be time & fewer changes, i.e. one train to 34th, one or two buses to final destination. The only way around this would be a unlimited monthly express MC at $120.
Mr t__:^)
The B does not operate to Washington Heights anymore. And when it did, it only operated to 168St...........
B46M Limited
Thanks for the input ! I now have a very good reason to take down my March 1997 subway map :-(
For our new in-town friend that would mean a C or A and a switch to B or D to get him onto 6th Ave.
Mr t__:^)
And the subway map has been redesigned too! In fact, the new map doesn't need yellow highlight for Metrocard stations and lines for free transfer busses.
I went to Command storage and saw that 431 has been scrapped. The engine was taken out of it. This bus was in a bad accident a few months ago. Last week i noticed a MCI Classic that was painted all white ( like the 1999 Orion V CNGs). I was wondering if this was possibly an ex-Triboro MCI Classic. I was unable to catch the # of it. This is the first Command MCI Classic that has been repainted with out the black paint trim around the windows. I would appreciate any info on this bus. Thanks!
KayBee
Today I noticed an Orion (Diesel-coty type) with a yellow LED above the unlit high beam headlight, about midway in the white area. It was steady and not flashing. I looked at other Orions (diesel- city type) and they ahd the light also but not lit. What does this light mean
THat light indicates the statuus of the retarder(Jake Brake)If it's on, the light is out, if it's off, the light is on. It's supposed to be off in bad weather.
-Hank
THat light indicates the statuus of the retarder(Jake Brake)If it's on, the light is out, if it's off, the light is on. It's supposed to be off in bad weather. And all the recent buses have it, MCIs, Novas, not sure about the Flyers, though.
-Hank
going into atlantic city on route 30 it says do not use jake brake before 9 am. does anyone know the reasoning for this.
Theres a lot of stuff you cant do with a bus in Atlantic City. You have to use particular streets t oenter and exit casinos and you cant even stop at Dunkin Donuts on Atlanic Avenue or you will be ticketed. The police have nothing better to do down there.
If they dont want all the noise and stuff from buses, then stop building the damn casinos.
All they want is the money and not the people,buses, noise or casinos.Plus you cant wait at the pickup at the casino more than 1 minute if somone is late getting back to the bus. And dont go around the block either. Also the casinos dont want any bus thats over 5 years old providing service.
Saw Jamaica Bus 601 on Queens Blvd today with a full wrap on sides and back. Welcome!!!
MM2000
Rode this bus this morning on the Q60 and it sounds like a rattlesnake. It hissed then rattled for a minute then stoped for 10 seconds and then started constantly repeating this process over and over till I got off. Could it be needing a new fan belt?
MM2000
Saw this bus today on the Q60 with green bumpers on the back and front and all around the bottom of the sides. Guess they're getting a new look and it looks nice. But yet Triboro is getting same scheme with red on front and rear bumpers and bottom of the sides.
MM2000
Saw this bus on X64 this morning. Are the Queens Depots getting 3800s to replace the 1700-1800 series? If they are, how long will be there, cause they're up for replacement and they look like they were just repainted?
FR
this is a surplus castleton bus. they have been repainted at eny. 100 more mci are now arriving in si so expect more 3800s to be transferred to queens to replace 1700s. also orions 115-172 and 611-630 will most likely go to casey stengel.
As a Transit Bus Enthuisiast I do not understand why City Tax Payers like myself (who also happens to be the Brother of N.Y.C. Transit's Staten Island bus operator Eric Updale) are forbidden to visit the many Vintage Transit Buses at various bus garages? In particular, I've been aiming at attempting to visit a 1963 General Motors TDH-5303 New Look former Transit Authority bus #3758 which is housed either at the Jackie Gleason or Ulmer Park Bus Depot. Sometime ago on the Transit Bus Board someone told me that I can get arrested just for entering a bus depot just to photograph a Museum Transit Bus. Even if I were to be forbidden from entering Transit property, if I really did get arrested by police, could I face severe punishment over a ridulous little violation just for visiting the 1963 GMC Transit Bus #3758? Also, even if I did just go to jail only for entering New York City Transit Property, chances are that I would get bailed out very easily.
The city should do something for the Mueseum fleet of buses,like it has for the Subway Cars instead of just having the Busfest once a year.As for 3758 I remember when that bus was at Fresh Pond in the 70's.Always liked those (along with the 2000's new looks, the 5000's new look Flexibles)Managed to ride those in early 80's(82-84)
Bus 3758 operated from Fifth Avenue garage (now Gleason)when it
was new in 1963.
Tresspassing is unsafe and a security risk for people working on the propery. Don't try to sneak into a terminal or shop.
Try going to the office, tell them what you want to do and ask permission. (don't be a pest, staff hates pests.)
Try calling the terminal manager to make an appontment. Can't hurt all they can do is say no.
If you get permission, go and take your pictues, thank them and leave. Remember they have work to do so the buses will run tomorow. The staff that worked on and preserved the bus understand your request because they are proud of it. Not everyone will. It all depends on who you get to talk to. (Knowing someone that works there helps too)
Don't be offended if they think you are a pest. They are unenlightened. To some people transit is just a job and transit history is beyond understanding.
I was wondering, did the city ever save any of the 5600-5700's Flexibles(No a/c-Longitudal gray seats)I remember CS(then Flu) had alot of them the same time they had the 7100 Flexibles
None of the 5600-series Flexible buses were saved. Some operated
their last miles out of Flatbush garage; the high 5700's ran in
Staten Island. Only 5117 was preserved.
In addition, no 2000-series GM TDH-4507's, 4000-series GM
TDH-4510's, and 5200-series "Bingham Mack" c-50's were preserved.
Neither were the 5000-series Mack C-49's, which ran in Manhattan.
Also, no postwar St. Louis trolleybuses were saved, and the postwar
Twin Coach buses were long gone.
I think Orange Empire Museum in Perris Calif have a Post War Twin Coach on it s property, but if I remember correctly it was a Trolley Coach from the SF Muni Railway, there were a couple other Trolley Busses and I think even I 5th Ave Yellow Double Deck Bus
for the last 2-3 days or so, i have seen the new MCI buses. Specifically, numbers #2043,#2055,#2049 and #2063. If these are 1999 buses, i cant see a difference between these and the other ones that they have. is there a difference?
Sometimes the only difference is one little letter in the 17-digit VIN-number. The 1998's have "W" whereas the 1999's would have "X".
as i stated befire 1860-2039 are 1999 model year and 2040-2139 are 2000 model year and there probably are no real differences.
I remember Kaybee's webpage that lists where every bus is and at which depot. i hope he changed it, because a lot of the 3800's are no longer at castleton, i think some of them moved to Ulmer Park and Jackie Gleason. I saw #3804 with the Westside sticker on it, and i do know that used to be a Yukon bus. If Kaybee reads this, please send me the link to see the full lists of where each bus is.
thank you
Sorry you got the wrong person. I never had a webpage that listed buses and depots. I only had pictures. BTW now I am a part of TransiTALK. Today i saw 3875 and 3880 with Yukon stickers. Im sure its only temporary. I rode 3875 on the X19 on Monday and she still has some life left in her. Unfortunately the interior was digusting; a seat pad or two was missing.
I rode 3965 from JG on Friday, it was in pretty good condition.
But JG still has the tip-top novas! And some of those novas came from yukon a few years back.
the novas were from yukon, but after that they were at ulmer park depot. some of them still have the ulmer park sticker on them, even though the bus is not runnig from that depot
Yesterday I was on the M11 going southbound when we crossed the light at 63 street. When the bus got to the bus stop, a woman came on to the bus and started yelling at the bus driver that he almost ran her over while she was JAYWALKING on 63st. She wouldn't stop talking. I could tell that she wanted to hold up every one on the bus just so she could get her word in. She even started making fun of the way that the bus driver was speaking. (The bus driver was an middle aged Irish man) That went on for about 10 min. Then the other bus came. The driver on the other bus got off and started talking to the driver and to the woman. Then our driver but our bus out of service. We all had to move to the other bus. And we waited there for another 10 min. untill we started moving. If the lady ever read this i just hope you know that you caused all the people on the bus to be late. I hope your happy with yourself
Good point. The customer should have written down the bus number & called or written the company (TA or other). At this "private" company we answer EVERY letter ! If the company concludes that the driver did something wrong he/she will at least be talked to (might have a good explaination, like the stupid woman walked out between a couple of parked vans). In some cases the driver will be written up.
Our business is service, sometimes we do it right, sometimes shit happens, and sometimes we don't do so good.
Disclaimer: This is not a official statement by anyone in the TA, DOT or private company.
Mr t__:^)
This woman should be flogged or caned for doing that.
You know I'm a big fan of corporal punishment.
That is exactly why Singapore is such a nice place to live with a clean, friendly transit system.
The transit system might be clean, but it isn't friendly, nor is the country a nice place to live. While I'm a fan of heavier punishment, the destruction of personal liberties in Singapore makes up for it.
And don't EVEN think about chewing gum!! In Singapore it is illegal to chew gum in public, with a stiff punishment if caught. We Americans who are used to immense personal freedom can't even imagine what it's like.
Well with LI Bus we get these cars and Jeeps that cut in front of the bus and drop somebody off at stop, often right in front of us so we have to stop short.
It also delays us. This phenomonon of "pop and drop" is quite annoying.
It's usually all the yuppies we have around here dropping off their servants and housekeepers, often right before the bus arrives at the bus stop.
One time on the N21 a jeep pulled out in front of us right before the city line and honked and waved at our bus, driver was practically at the city line stop but the jeep blocked us in and let off the housekeeper. There was no escape so we had to pick them up in the middle of the street or there would've been a fight with the woman driving the jeep and the bus driver.
This is for Bustalk as well as sub talk, I am tired ot transit trying to screw riders out of their money and a ride has anyone seen the trains service or bus service in brooklyn since the free tranfers were instituted? ridiculous there are not enough buses the schedules are not accurate even at late night when there is less trafic,why is there even talk now of a 30 cent hike? this is ridiculous they have cut back service a few years ago well bring it back then we'll talk fare hikes!!! Extend some bus routes ex; b35 to penn ave or junius during week days; extend the 40 to kp eliminates the 78 extend the 45 to broadway junction consider bus routs in outer regions of canarsie; Bring back the 11 at rockaway parkway weekdays please!!!;71 to utica;23 to newkirk; get some of those buses you guys were going to get rid of in sunset park, atlantic ave,and even buy those sittin near command bus co. back and do something before a fare hike. I am former bus rider of the B50 so I may seem extremly upsset by this but the whole idea of " give us your money for the same service pus more does not work for me this is insane right now at this time. Hey transit tell that to some one who uses the B6 to new lots or the 17 to utica who then has to cram their way on to the Lex line to pay 30 cent extra. HA!!!!
This 30 cents additional is a joke, because it's for the Capital Improvement. They need it because Pataki won't caugh up the money. It's he who already withheld some of the money from the transit system. In the past Capital Improvements didn't get paid for out of the farebox !
I think that they have some nerve trying get the farebox to pay for even more. Remember Virgial Conway is George's man ! If we don't shoot down this trial balloon it's going to happen.
Mr t__:^)
It isn't like Pataki can just go to a big vault somewhere and hand over more billions to transit. The additional money will have come from somewhere, either through cuts in other areas, or more likely through increased fares, tolls and taxes. Any ideas out there? My bet is that dspite all the screaming, the subway fare and bridge/tunnel tolls will go up. This is another reason why the MTA has implemented MetroCard and E-Z pass technologies. They make it easier and 'less painful' to raise fares and tolls.
Also cheaper. They don't have to spend any time recovering the costs of the upgrade.
[It isn't like Pataki can just go to a big vault somewhere and hand over more billions to transit. The additional money will have come from somewhere, either through cuts in other areas, or more likely through increased fares, tolls and taxes.]
This is true, but it's not a new issue. The State takes in all this money then has to decide what projects/programs to fund/not fund to increase/decrease. The point was that historically the mind set was that mass transit capital projects were funded by Fed. & State. Sometimes a bond issue was floated. When Pataki came into office he decided first to withold already commited funding & instructed Virgial to increase the % that the farebox had to meet of the operating cost.
Now here comes a couple of projects (access to Grand Central & 2nd Ave Stubway) that everyone agrees is very important to do, but George has told Virgial that the State isn't going to kick in any money.
Mr t__:^)
I agree with this totally,the people in the southwestern portion of Brooklyn(carnarsie,eny and city line)and the connecting part of Queens,don 't get there fare(play on words) share of the service.The J train was alledged to be finished a month ahead of schedule( beginning of Sept as compared to beginning of October yet what they do.The middle of October they decide to shut the Willy B down again for the track work they reputed to finish at thebeginning of Sept.If you are going to do the job -do it right at least .The Mrytle/Jamaica-Bdwy(brklyn)-Nassau st line has been under reconstruction for the 15-20 yrs -Mean while the more important lines (the flushing line et.al has been done and complete for the past 5-10yrs and that job started after the J reconstruction was started.As for buses extend the B12 from it's present term at sheridan down Liberty to X-Bay at least and extend the B14 from Drew Street either up to X-bay and Liberty or down X-bay to 164th Ave (and not thru Lindenwood).Also have B15 exit at x-bay and Conduit to make stop at X-bay blvd.
When was the last time a Republican Govenor gave a damn for Public Transit in the city anyway?
your right but it wasn't like it wa any better under a democrat either. I guess maybe pataki feels he got enough constituants to get him reelected and considering it seems that he is more focused on the LIRR and Metro North it seems to me he is more concerned with suburbanites the us city dwellers. i mean look at how much mony was set aside for the subways and city buses as opposed to rail lines and suburban buses. Now I kinda of see why a few years ago the was an accusation if racism going on ( 62% of the poulation in the 5 bouroughsare people of color ) Now i don't know what it is with this situation but it seems to get worse and worse. I have now idea what is going on. Maybe most of the money that city riders give goes to other projects outside of the city( i hope not) that is kind of like my college (Brooklyn -LIU)where the tuition keeps going up to pay for the other campuses in longIsland. I mean I am always the same guy demanding the 11 to return to canarsie Because i was forced to take the 6 or the 82 or at the time ,East New york depot's Laughing stock to transit riders the B50. i have older maps of the B11 to canarsie and i guess back in the days when the area was alot different this would not be a problem but mow this is a joke bring it back !! do something ! I don'care as long as it is benificial and the fare is not hiked up now!!!
[I guess maybe pataki feels he got enough constituants to get him reelected and considering it seems that he is more focused on the LIRR and Metro North it seems to me he is more concerned with
suburbanites the us city dwellers.]
I think he's not going to rock the boat at all for a while in the hopes that George Bush asks him to be his #2. George is #2 for that matter.
Mr t__:^)
I always said to extend the B14 along Sutter Av to the Rocakway Blvd subway station............
B46M Limited
How bout the same for the B12
The B12, to me should be extended in the other direction through Parkside to Prosepect Park Circle...........
I think I will put up my Brooklyn Bus Route Suggestions again between today and tomorrow..........
B46M Limited
I think (and I'm going to take a lot of heat for this) a fare hike is about due. Costs are increasing, wages are increasing, the fare must go up as well. It's the same thing with the 'nickel fare' Costs and wages rose, but no one wanted a fare increase. It's inevitable. They're only saying 30 cents so that when the real hike turns out to be 10 cents, everyone will be happy. Just like the $1.15 that was supposed to be $1.25, the $1.25 that was supposed to be $1.35, and the $1.50 that was going to be $1.75.
-Hank
I can handle up a dime:as long as they keep the Metrocard discounts
What I find interesting is the surplus! Now that TWU and NYCT are starting to bargain, the surplus has disappeared and they are saying concesssions are needed plus fare increases. We have given concessions and are still giving. For the new Station Agent Pick to start 1/16/2000, many assist jobs were abolished in stations such as 42nd Street, 34th Street, 59th St/Columbus Circle- meaning longer lines and plus we still have to do the required paperwork while keeping the window open and doing paperwork and our deposit between customers.
And how much are those unlimited cards going to cost after the increase? Service keeps getting worse, it seems I have to wait longer for a city bus than a year ago. It seems there's a problem with the subway everyday. The delays and problems with LI Bus, not to mention poor service. No way I'm paying an extra 30 cents, I'll put it towards getting my own car and not dealing with the ripoff the MTA is.
You go to other countries, and cities like Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, San Francisco and their service is cheap, reliable, and clean. NYC on the other hand is dirty, slow, and getting more expensive.
The result is even more cars on the streets of NYC and here in Nassau county, not to mention the higher cost of commuting. It might make some people and companies think of working elsewhere besides NYC.
$1.50 a ride is expensive enough. Not to mention crappy LIRR service that costs even more.
A fare increase will be a major setback to the subway and bus system, and should NOT be instituted. The money should come from the pockets of those who have, not the commuters who have not.
With today's thinking, it's amazing we even have a subway and bus system in NYC. In 20 years Shanghai, China will have a better transit system than NYC does, if we don't act soon.
But then again, mass transit in the USA is standing still compared to what countries like China are doing.
Sorry, those foreign rides are NOT cheaper. In fact, NYC is nearly alone in NOT charging a distance-based fare. I'm not sure, but I believe Boston has zones, and Chicago has zones on its buses (I don't think it's on their trains) Singapore, Hong Kong, and Taiwan also use distance-based fares.
-Hank
Boston doesn't really have zones on the trains, except on inbound Green trains where a higher fare is charged farther from downtown. outbound, and in both directions on all other trains the fare is EIGHTY-FIVE CENTS!
But then again, mass transit in the USA is standing still compared to what countries like China are doing.
If Standing Still means that our government doesn't persecute us for our beliefs and we have the right to engage in Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Property (or Happiness if by Jefferson), then we must NEVER BEGIN TO MOVE! If you enjoy a nice totalitarian dictatorship, don't try to implement one here.
SERVICE PROPOSALS AND CHANGES
M72
West 72 st,South on West End Av,West on West 66 st,North on Freedom Place,to east curb at the near side of west 70 to stand on Freedom Place
Return via Freedom Place,West 70 st Eastbound ,North on West End Av ,,,East on West 72 street
Alternative Discussed in April 1998 ,,West on 70 st,South on Riverside Drive,,east on W 68 st,North on Freedom Place, and East on 70 St,,
Implement the Fall of 1999
M7 Terminal at Union Square,,
Implement in the Fall of 1999
via Broadway ,East on East 17 st,,South on Park Av South Union Square East,,,West on E 14 st to Stand west of Union Square West on East 14 st,,
Return via East 14 ,West 14 st and North on 6 Av
Alternatives Discussed for Terminal Options ,,14 st bet 3 and Irving Place
or
4 Av Northbound bet 13 and 14 st
M10 and M20
M10 via F Douglas from W 159 st,,Central Park West,W 63 st,Broadway,Columbus Circle,Broadway ,7 Av West 31 st to Stand,,
Ret M10 via West 31 st,,8 Av,,Columbus Circle ,Central Park West,,F Douglas Blvd to West 159 st U Turn
M20 from the World Trade M10 Terminal (Former M10 routing) ,,then via West St,,HARRISON STREET,Hudson St,,8 Av,Columbus CIrcle ,Central Park West ,,,West 66 street,Broadway ,to Layover location on Broaday,,just north of 63 street
M20 Return via Broadway ,Columbus Circle,Broadway,,7 Avenue,,Varick StWest Broadway ,and present M10 routing,,will now be called the M20 in the area
ALternatives Discussed
Terminate the North Route at Columbus Circle (M20)
Extend the M20 to West 81 street
ALso discussion of bringing back the M10LTD,from 1995
The agenda also discussed the Public Meeting held regariding the M10 M20 ,,April 14,1999 at the MTA Board Room 347 Madison Avenue
Steve
FDNY 84
First off, the M10 M20 has to be the stupidest thing ever. On the notice they posted, it was "to reduce transfers". REDUCE? HA! More transfers, probably. This is still just a proposal, right? And they'll need a LOTTA more drivers. And about the M10 limited (and mabye, M20 limited), would that be for the whole route, or just above 14th? In my opinion, below 14th wouldn't be nessecary. But if they do it, I'm 100% fine with it, since I'd probably be getting on at a limited stop, and definetly be getting of at a limited stop. And would they have to make headways of 15 or 20 mins before they get enough drivers? If they do, I'll have to take a cab every week.
wHY HAVE lIMITED sERVICE, yOU HAVE THE SUBWAY UNDER THE STREET
Well look at the M101, the subway runs right below that bus route.....
B46M Limited
Hey tevi, MTA is calling people who took the test in the past & they having problem hiring someone who doesnt' have a CDL or bad driver record. MTA call me last june for bus driver & i was #7,000. The guy who work at MTA tell us two months before there were calling people from #3,000. They said they having problem hiring people.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
Oh so then no problemo for me.
Will they keep the drivers on the current M10 route on the new M10, or move them to the 20 and get new people for the 10? Also, is this actually gonna happen, or still proposed?
Please read this,,,
This are going into effect
M10
M20
M72
Steve
http://www.onelist.com/community/NYCMETROAREABUSES
Are any RTS-1's (the slope backs) in operation anywhere in the metro area???? They ran at the airports for the rental companies for a while. Would love to get pictures of them.
All of them had the ac upgrade to look like the later models except the ones used at the airports jfk and lag. Hudson General ran the long term parking and connection bus service for the port and never did the upgrade on them. Dont know what happened to them after the new flyers went in to service.
you can find a few at Green lines. look for any buses with 1000's series running. there used to be some in philidelphia, but this is the best place that i know of seeing them
GBL changed the slope backs -when they did the A/C upgrade to look like the other RTS's of that time (mid 80's).
The ac upgrade was more than cosmetic. The condesors used to to infron of the radiators on the slopes so when you turned the AC on the bus overheated.
The upgrade put the condesor and the fan on the rear or the bus.
I think the RTS I was the prototype or the trans-bus All of the production models were RTS II's
RTS-II model 03's were slope backed (We have 5 upgraded 03's and one slope. All have been rebuilt)
RTS-II model 04's were the square backed buses
RTS-II Model 06's are the solid front axle (not independant A-Frame)
RTS-II Model 08's has the wheelchair lift in the front door and the
front windshield stads up straighter
I will get a picture of the slope back and try to get it posted.
The first production RTS was actually the RTS II-01 series. The 03 model is pretty much identical to the 01. I don't think many 01's were built. Long Beach Transit purchased the first 15 RTS in 1977(4701-4715) and these were 01 models. I'm sure there were other 01 models, but I don't know who had them. I think the roman numeral was intended to indicate the number of axles, which would've made the UMTA Transbus a RTS III. Since the Transbus never went into production the roman numerals were no longer necessary but GM did not drop them. I last RTS's I've seen were those that were at SEPTA. They retained their slopback because they were retrofitted with roof mounted A/C units. I believe all of the SEPTA RTS's have been withdrawn from service and they (like the WMATA RTS's) were repowered with DD 6V-92TA engines. Yes, the WMATA RTS's are still operating. They don't look too good, but they certainly can move fast.
Wayne
Did nova put the Transbus front end on the latest NYC RTS's? Thats the way they are pictured in the literature now.
Head lights in the bumpers and all.
I have not seen a production bus with the new front end. Just pictures.
I have to take a look at the GM Transbus. It's been a long time since I looked at those buses. The only other front end I've seen on an RTS is the 08 model. Of course the NYCTA would never buy 08's because the wheelchair lift location (front door) is too logical.
Wayne
i have been on the 08 models in chicago. they are kinda cool, and although they hav scratches on the windows, they do look real different, especially with teh back window on them
Why would it be too logical for the city to buy buses with the W/C lift in front when they did about 17yrs ago.The 2nd order of Grumman 870's the TA bought (I think 500-900 series) had the W/C lifts in them in the front door
Why would it be too logical for the city to buy buses with the W/C lift in front when they did about 17yrs ago.The 2nd order of
Grumman 870's the TA bought (I think 500-900 series) had the W/C lifts in them in the front door
... and they did it recently too with the New Flyer D-60, but I'm sure that happened because they probably couldn't get NF to install it in the rear door. Re: Grumman 870's - The NYCTA only placed one order. Those lift equipped Grumman 870's (400-500 TA, 800-900 OA) still had not been delivered when the Grumman crisis occured - so they were retrofitted and delivered after the first group which had already been delivered. My guess is that at this time no one was thinking of putting a wheelchair lift in the rear door. Remember the 04 RTS were not in production at the time and GM put in in the rear when they probably should've redesigned the front end at that time. They definitely could've done it because GM of Canada was able to do it for those 100 1982 Articulated fishbowls that are operating Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton (and one other Canadian city) - and it was done for the purpose of putting the w/c lift in the front. Of course that same front end was used on the Classic when it was introduced about a year later.
Wayne
One thing i heard was that the wc lift in the rear door is a better spot because of it not being exposed to road debris being kicked up and damaging the lift. This was the logic(?) of the ta. I know li bus has a mix of front or rear door lifts.
most of li buses work like this..as far as i know:
orion V-the ones #585-#650. these have wheelchair in the back.
#661-#666 front door.
#100's-#300's. Orion-front door.
Gillig-no wheelchair.
Anyone remember the TA's demo RTS slopeback? I believe it was S/N 200.
All of our lifts are in the rear door. Systems that I know that run both report slightly higher problems with the front door lifts due to pulling into high curbs, hitting snow banks and front end accidents.
It is not a great differance but a consideration Especially curb dammage.
That's the LFS you're looking at. It looks like Dopey (from Frozen Water From The Sky of All Colors of Light and the 7 Vertically Challenged Persons), like the original Doge Neon.
-Hank :)
Hows that for PC?
The UMTA 3 axle prototype was not the RTSIII, but the RTX. The RTS II was the actual production model and the II was used to show that these units were 2 axle and not 3 like the RTX Transbus prototype. This information is in a book called A survey of Public Transit Buses, I picked it up at the Transit Museum gift shop.
Peace
DaShawn
From information I have from a GM publicity manual from the late 60's and an UMTA publication from the early 70's, both state that the RTX, although later used as a design prototype for Transbus, was actually a concept vehicle and not designed as a prototype for Transbus. Since GM already had a basic design from the RTX it had developed it just carried it over to the Transbus design.
Most likely GM would have come out with a RTS style bus to replace the New Look even if Transbus wouldn't have pushed the issue but I wonder how much different it would have been than the RTS II that was eventually produced.
RDChilds
The model 8 was a special order for calif. i think la if i remeber right.Also Chicago has a group with no ac and a rear window.
I could be wrong, but I think all RTS's purchased by LAMTA (and former SCRTD) were 04 and 06 models.
Wayne
Liberty Lines may still have a few in operations. I had heard they were even going to save one ... they worked some routes in Queens for Queens Surface for a while last year before our Orion Vs started comming in. We returned the last to them before 1/1/99.
Mr t__:^)
Did QSC retire their slope back converted RTS's? I believe 201 is an example of those.
We have been retiring our older RTS coaches, e.g. -03, -04 (all the -03 are gone now, but 198 was still earning her keep last month). Recently a few -06 are going because of all the new (Triboro) Orions. However we still have all the TMC RTS fleet. We may end up with a little less then 1/2 RTS/MCI and a little over 1/2 CNG. The 6 diesel Orions are still here too.
Mr t__:^)
When browsing through the 1999 MTA New York City Transit Department Of Buses "Insiders Guide", I noticed that many of the photos whether at the Bus Depots or of the Transit Buses themselves were taken by a photographer by the name of Michael Spano. For true Transit Bus buffs like myself who not only ride todays NYC Transit Buses but also enjoy viewing the early Vintage Transit Bus equipment, I would please like to find out if there are any commercial photographers like Mr. Spano that shoot for New York Transit who can also take actual photographs of New York City Transit's Museum Buses? In particular, I would like to find out if there are any Transit photographers who can take a color photo of the 1963 General Motors TDH-5303 New Look model bus #3758 from which I understand is housed at the Jackie Gleason Bus Depot? I would like the photo to show a full front/side view of this green body 1963 Fish Bowl. Having a photograph of this 1963 GMC New Look Transit Bus would bring back so many childhood memories of when I was growing up during the early 1970's on Staten Island.
I agree that there should be a color photo catalogue of the NYCTA-MABSTOA museum fleet with pictures showing both sides, front and back. I would especially like to see some good pictures of the 1956 Mack C-49. All pictures of C-49s are from the front. You never see the back of these buses with their distinctively shaped rear windows.
just saw #1760 on the B1 route today. from the inside, i know this is a express bus. Is Ulmer Park truely short buses that they have to put a express bus out there? i hope when the TA orders more buses, Ulmer Park gets some. Any idea what is new comnig to Brooklyn in terms of buses, or the same type of bus is comning.
Wish #995 came to Ulmer Park
This is the not the 1st time its been done on that bus.15 yrs when I was Going to John Bowne H.S,I caught that exact # on the Q88 When it used to terminate at Hillside instead of Jamaica.
I remember that because it was the first time I caught a suburban (aside From the JBL Grumman 870's which have Suburban seating)
ulmer park is not really short of buses.old express coaches
sometimes end up on local runs because of the way they are parked
the night before.we try to park the express coaches by themselves
(the 9300's have their own yard),but the older ones tend to get
mixed in with the hard seaters.the yard dispatcher books them out
the next morning in the order in which he finds them in the yard.
morning pullout is so hectic that there is no time to weed out old
express coaches,so they are just used like any other bus.you may
at times see the following buses on ulmer park local lines;
1760 1761 1834 7038-7047
ANDY/ULMERPARK
that part i can understand. what disappoints me is that the old express buses wind up with scratches on windows, ripped seats and then wind up runnig ona express line. (example-1834) if there was a way to keep up on the scrathces at ulmer park(beacaue i my opinion, they really do look bad at your depot, especially with the 4700's that you have). just a opinion. if there is anything u guys can do, it would be nice.
1761 on the b36 last night at 9:30 pm at corner of nostrand and ave z
I hope those Bronx style numbers are still on the back of 1834.
they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the confirmation.
I remember back in 1997 I rode this bus on Q46 a lot. She runs good.
Wish I could've got a pic of her.
MM2000
i just saw #1761 on the B36 this morning. guess they have more than one express bus runnig on local lines.
I post this because Crowns are so much like "old look" transit buses, and they are the only ones that I have any interest in. This site is by a cartoon fan I see in the cartoon newsgroups I visit after I leave here.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/shire/9844/index.html
I don;t know how anyone can say Crown buses are like old look transit buses. The only resemblance I can see is the pair of rear windows, and on a Crown they are much smaller.
Crowns were built (mainly) to be school buses. They always have their engines underneath mid-ships. That compartment in the rear under those paired windows is a storage compartment (i.e. a "trunk").
Very few were built as tourist type buses, most of those went to operations in Hawaii but were replaced in later years by MCI buses and the Crowns returned to the mainland.
Crown also built fire apparatus under the name "Crown Firecoach". The front of such equipment was the very same front used on the buses, so there is a very distinct family resemblance.
Crown is no longer in business.
I meant the general shape, especially the rounded back. I wasn't trying to say it was an exact likeness.
I saw bus #995 on the M21 yesterday. They redid the back of the bus. They moved the rear signs and put the center brake light from the rear window to the center of the engen compent. It good to see it back again.
I believe if I remembered correctly that there was a prototype RTS-I that came out before the transbus (The RTS with the low floor and 3 axles). It had similar bumpers and headlights as the Transbus. I saw drawings of it in numerous Mass Transit magazines from the early 1970's.
Back in the middle 70s the TA ran 10 Leyland double-decker coaches in Manhattan for a few years. I remember seeing them on Riverside Drive and upper Broadway (M4, M5), although I never rode one. They were removed from service after a rather short time. Where did they go? Why did they not work out? The old Fifth Avenue Coach Corp. had run double deckers years earlier, and one is preserved in the museum collection. And double deckers continue to run standard transit routes throughout Great Britain and elsewhere. Why were they rejected in NYC. I have always suspected that the Leylands were sacked by the TA because of security concerns about the upper deck and fear of law suits brought by people falling on the stairs. Could this have been the problem?
There was a post(s) here recently about them. Most of all ended up on the West Coast - I think Gray Line Sightseeing. I though there were 8 of them D1-D8. I was fortunate enough to ride 3 of them.
Wayne
I seem to remember reading or speaking to someone at the time who said that the heaters were not strong enough for the winters we have here in the northeast. Also the streetlights and traffic lights had to be moved or changed so that the buses could fit under them or pull up to a curb. This would have been quite an expense to renovate the whole city so that they could service every route. Don't forget that this was at a time just after the Fiscal Crisis of the 70's and money was tight. Also I believe that only one depot had doors tall enough to accomodate the buses. Let's not forget that parts would have been imported from England since I doubt there would be much of any inventory over here.
Correct! They had heating/cooling system problems and they were numbered DD1-DD8.
They wound up with GrayLine/American Sightseeing in San Francisco, and some went to GrayLine in Victoria BC. I was told a couple relocated back to NYC had the roofs taken off, and now run on Big Apple Tours.
The SCRTD had also bought some in the mid 70s, I think they were Mans but I am not sure and ran them on the El Monte Busway east of LA for Freeway Service, and they were also pulled off. I guess European Double Deck Transit Busses do not make it in the USA
the depot that was running them was Mother Hale(orignally called 146th Street Depot). I remember riding on one of them on the M1 from 8th st-4th Av to 86th st-madison av. I remember sitting on the upper level underneath the driver(i was young and was stoping my foot a lot,the driver gave me a look when i got off the bus). I do miss them. Anyone that has a picture of theses buses would be greatly appreciated.
After seeing on the news what happened to the driver on the B75 line, i as a customer if i were a driver would have let him on the bus. I believe it is better to let at least one person go then be attacked on the bus. i have seen drivers let customers go if the metrocard doesnt work. I guess they think as well as i, that their life means more than a arguement with a passenger on the bus. I hope the driver is okay. And, are there any safety systems set up that if a driver is being hassled or attacked thet they have help..let me know.
I just read the article in the DN. Most bus drivers would problably let the person go and pay the fare themselves..........
B46M Limited
In a perfect world, this could happen. But just let me know if this idea could work for the 2000-2001 pick for brooklyn.
Flatbush-B2,B31,B41,B44,B46,B49.
Ulmer Park-B1,B3,B4,B6,B36,B64,B68,B74,B82(split ENY),X25,X28,X29.
Jackie Gleason-B9,B11,B16,B23,B35,B37,B51,B63,B65,B67,B69,B70,B71,B75,B77,X27.
East New York-B7,B12,B14,B15,B17,B20,B25,B40,B45,Q56,B60,B82(UP Split),B83.
Crosstown-B18,B13,B24,B43,B48,B61,Q59.
Fresh Pond-B20,B26,B38,B39,Q54,Q55,Q58.
if i missed anything,let me know. Crosstown could work if they ever open it, and Ulmer Park could run the B68 again(now that JG has it, it doesnt run well, though seeing the low-floor buses are good).
How do you know Crosstown Bus Depot is going to reopen, is it true that Crosstown will reopen.
Please post on Bustalk.
You are missing the B52, B54, B57. If Crosstown were to reopen, I say the B18,B24,B39,B40,B43,B48,B60,B61,Q54,Q59 buses should operate from there..........
B46M Limited
Unless they're planning on condemning a lot of surrounding property, I don't see how Crosstown can take many routes - it's not a large depot. I absolutely can't see the B40,B60,Q54; the Q54 passes only about 10 blocks from Fresh Pond. Even the B18 and Q59 are a lot closer to FP than to Xtown. I vaguely remember the B53 (now Q54) and/or B57 running out of Crosstown in the very early sixties, but Fresh Pond makes more sense for them.
This is how I'd realign the two depots...
Crosstown-B18,B24,B39,B43,B48,B61
Fresh Pond-B13,B20,B26,B38,B52,Q54,Q55,B57,Q58,Q59
Did the B53 really run out of Crosstown once. When did it switch to FP?
Yes, the B-53 operated from Crosstown from 1955 to 1960. However,
the B-57 ran from Crosstown as a trolleybus route, not a bus route,
then was transferred to Bergen Street, then to Fresh Pond after
trolleybus service ended on July 27, 1960.
Those lines may pass near FP, but they end over towards Crosstown, so it may be more convenient to run them from there (less deadheading or shortturned garage runs.)
Besides, isn't there alot of open or at least unused industrial space in the area if they nneded to expand?
I believe that the block is empty............
B46M Limited
Why not put the B 9 into Flatbush, since it terminates about 1 mile away, also the B 7 back to Flatbush, you forgot the B-42
I think that there are trying to get rid of these bus routes so that whenever the artics come, they will be for the B41,B44,B46, and B49......
B46M Limited
In response to a message posted earlier by yours truely, i listed depots in brooklyn and which routes should go to them. I put Crosstown as one of them becasue i hear through people here on bustalk that a new depot is opening in the year 2000 in Long Island City. Since I believe that Crosstown is the one they are talking about, i'm assuming that is the one. Unless there is a brand new one opening up. If anyone knows, please let me know.
I think that this new depot supposed to be in Maspeth, Queens......
B46M Limited
I'd read here that the new depot was to be a (former) UPS facility...I can't figure out where UPS has surplus space in Maspeth.
There's the big facility on 48th St but that is really right on top of Fresh Pond and I don't see UPS selling. I believe UPS just closed a garage on Hunters Point Ave around 27th Street. That would be Long Island City, not Maspeth. It's not that far from the old Crosstown depot, but everything except the 24 and 61 (i.e. B39, 43, 48) would have to cross the Newtown Creek via the Pulaski or Greenpoint Av. bridges to get there. Also traffic on Hunters Point and Borden Ave is often at a standstill in rush hours with Midtown tunnel bound traffic going around the LIE. I can hardly wait to see a bus depot added to that mix. The only other site in Maspeth that could handle a depot would be Phelps-Dodge under the Kosciusko bridge, and that's passed through the hands of USPS and UPS, and I think it's a superfund site because of the Phelps Dodge operation.
I would like to know an official date & year on when Crosstown Bus Depot will reopen as a operating depot & who did you find from about this.
Post information on bustalk.
Sincerely,
Mike
crosstown will not be opening as a revenue depot any time soon!
the ta considers it to small to serve todays surface transit needs.
it would also need too much work from what i hear to make it
functional again(the floors are reputed to be in bad shape).
the ta is content to continue to use it as a paint shop.
look for a new brooklyn depot in lic or maspeth,target year around
2001-2002.
ANNDY/ULMER PK
As a straphanger myself on Staten Island who frquently travels by New York City Transit buses, during the midday hours on weekdays between
9:00AM and 2:00PM I don't understand the logoic of NYC Transit operating the S53 Bus Route every 15 minutes with every other bus completing its full trip in Port Richmond, while the alternate trips only terminate at Clove Road off Victory Blvd? I can understand that it does make a great deal of sense to have the S53 shorten some of its trips at Clove Road during the morning rush hour between 6:00AM and 9:00AM to better serve the students traveling to the College Of Staten Island. When N.Y.C. Transit plans future schedules in the future, I hope that Operations Planning considers making some of the
non-PR. S53 trips terminate at Broadway off Forest Ave.
Saw 1757, 1819 and 3858 on the Cross Bronx around Throggs Neck heading west this afternoon. According to the latest roster,they were with QV.Where are they going?
Today i was heading to blockbuster & i saw #8131 with #4181 both of buses are from Fresh Pond Depot heading to Whitestone or Throggs Neck bridge on Bruckner Expressway. I wonder why buses doing in the bronx?
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
4181 is at KB Depot. You may mean either 4101, 4111 or 8141?
1757, 1819 and 3858 were in the Bronx on the X32.
MM2000
Or it could have been 4081
8131----> I know this is the Fresh Pond training bus. They were probably going up to Westchester Avenue around Metcalf Avenue doing the 'el' pillar slalom.
4181 ----> probably a KB training bus
These may also have been the two buses going out to the road test area around Lafayette Av and Havemeyer(?).
I would like to purchase a toy model RTS-1. A post several weeks back said that Pirate Models in England makes one that you put together and its up to you to decide whether you want Slope back or Straight Back...I wrote them for a catalogue and haven't heard from them and the PO didn't return my letter. Any leads on other mfg's or how to get in touch with them...Several search engines have come up blank so I guess they're not on the Net.
I don't know how much help this information will be, but a couple of years ago I picked up a sloped back RTS model at a flea market in Manhattan. It was used, and is currently missing both front wheels. It is strange. It's longer than the toy bank models of Greyhound bus or regular RTS bus. The toy banks are about 10" long and 2" wide, while the sloped back is shy of 12" and almost 2.5" long. It is either made out of fiberglass or a heavy plastic. It's white with 3 varying blue stripes below the
window line and its only id. is RTS printed in this striped band. The front has GMC under the windshield and DOWNTOWN on its destination strip. The license plate has a red background with plate number HR-117. There are no markings that I can find identifying the manufacturer. Anybody know about this?
My opinion on where the articulated buses should run. The 79 and 86 do NOT need them. Here we go:
M15 South Ferry, M15 125th Street
Until the 2nd Ave Subway, it needs all the space it can get.
M101 8th Street, M102 8th Street, M103 City Hall, M101 Ft. George, M102 Harlem, M103 125th Street
We just have to have more people on the bus and not the 4, 5, and 6. M103 becomes limited during rush hours.
M1 South Ferry, M1 East Village, M2 East Village, M3 East Village, M1 Harlem, M2 168th Street, M3 Ft. George
Relieve the crowding on the 4, 5, and 6.
M87 Lexington Avenue, M87 BroadwayNEW route that goes from Lexington Avenue and 86th Street to Broadway and 96th Street making stops at 86th and Lex, 86th and CPW, 86th and B'way, and 96th and B'way. This bus would be free for passengers with a subway->bus transfer From this bus, you could re-enter the subway at the 4 stations it stops at for free.
M125 Lexington Avenue, M125 BroadwayNEW. Goes along 125th Street stoping at 125th and Lex, 125th and Lenox, 125th and 8th Ave, and 125th and Broadway. Same transfer rules as M87.
Other assignments:M4 Penn Station, M4 191st Street, M4 Cloisters, M60 LaGuardia Airprot, M60 116th Street, B15 JFK Airport, Q32 Penn Station, Q32 Jackson Heights, Q48 LaGuardia Airport, Q48 Flushing, Any route serving a transportation centerThese would all be served by Low-Floor Hybrids. This would make it easier to get baggage on board the bus.
M79 East End Ave, M79 Riverside Drive, M86 92nd Street, M86 West End AvenueOrions. It is in between the Articulateds and RTSs.
These are my thoughts. I would like to hear your comments.
Not on the M60 and Q48 because there is not enouph service to warrent. The Q32 may be if ridership increases. If there woud be an M125 I aqree with you bot thats never going to happen because of the Bx15 which is accually the 125th Street crosstown. Other then that I agree with you on The M15, M101/102/103, M1/2/3/4.
As for the M87 thats never going to happen.
By the way what about The M14, M16/34, and the M42?
Nevermind the artics, but why not extend the Q32 to LaGuardia anyway?
Good idea and eliminate the Q 33 when the city takes over, also extend the Q72, and the Q 23 so there are more connections to different subway lines/stations oh also the 19A
Q32 to Lagurdia, I gotta say, is a wondeful idea. And mabye have a route from Grand Central to LGA? Or have some Q32's terminate at Grand Central.
The Q32 runs relatively near Grand Central Terminal. It would be a good idea.
Yeah. Are there any depots close to LGA? And I really can't see why the Q32 is split out of Hudson Pier and not Westside. So alos switch the M10 back to Hudson.
Low floor buses would be on the M4, M60 and Q48, not the Artics. The reason for this is to encourage ridership to and from transportation centers. They would run on any route serving LaGuardia, JFK, or Penn Station.
The crosstown routes would be like subway lines going from the Esat Side IRT to the west side IRT and IND. They would come every 5-15 minutes and only stop at subway stations. You would be allowed to go subway>bus and back to subway if you took these buses. The other alternative is to have the M86 turn up Broadway and terminate at Bway/96th and be allowed to go from a subway line on to the M86 or Bx15 for free, and re-enter a different line in 20 minutes from the time of boarding the bus for no extra charge. These routes would get articulated buses. The only minus about this is that there would be no buses on 86th Street west of Broadway. They could run RTSs on buses to West End, and then Artics to 96th Street. The reason the 86 would go up to 96th, is to have a way to get from the express stop at 86th, to the express stop at 96th.
If you want people to read what you wrote, kindly refrain from using blinking or scrolling words. It's hard to read full paragraphs, and then have to wait for a sentence that scolls by after EACH ONE so that one can see what you are talking about.
-Hank
I've found that cars cut off buses when they're going fast, just to annoy them. For example, you know the brooklyn bridge-park row underpass speed pocket going northbound/uptown? My M9 driver usually gets up to speed there, but then there's the place on the right where cars get on. By that point, we're almost at 40, and I've seen cars do this a lot: they get to the entrance in plenty of time to get in front of the bus with out the bus slowing down, then they cut right in front of the bus so it (it being the bus) has to slam on its brakes, almost giving whiplash. Any ideas why they do this?
If your "regular" M9 operator tears ass through there at 40 every time, then why doesnt he realize that those cars will always be there to cut him off all the time too? He ain't getting the big picture. Especially if he's a regular man on the route he should get to know all these litle tidbits of his route.
A bus is a target for any other driver in any other vehicle. What they dont understand is that there are people standing on the bus and those that are sitting are not restrained.
But even then, when your 'regular' M9 operator has a "1-2" with injuries at the front end he is going to be the one going on a fitness, and answering 20 questions from System Safety, not the jackass livery cab that cuts him off. The reason being is that he is supposed to anticipate the actions of others.
(Well at leats that's what they tell you)
I'm just saying when it does happen. It doesn't happen too much. But the main point was the cars waiting for the buses to get really close before entering.
While walking down 5th ave tonight around 7:30, a friend and myself came upon several police cars, An ESU truck, Several TA vehicles. When we approached the area, 1933 was sitting with severe damage behind the right rear wheels. What happend was when 1933 passed over a grating it collapsed under the weight of the rear right wheel. The wheel dropped in the open hole and got caught. The wheel pulled back and ripped the side behind the wheel open. The wheel became stuck sideways under the bus (Call a tow truck) A lady was taken to the hospital for trauma. Well....I guess it will be OOS for a while.
I think I saw 1933 today around 4-430 on X1 at B'Way and Park Row.
MM2000
and you can bet nyct will try and hang the bus operator for this unpreventable accident
Well....When I was there I spoke to the driver. He said they knew it wasn't his fault. He was not sent for required drug testing. But.....With the TA, you never know.
It was still there at 9:30 when I got on the x10. I thought it looked funny, since the left tag was at about a 60 degree angle. All the sand and wetness on the street made me think that he bleww the engine, until I saw that wheel skewd.
-Hank
So the only Bridgeport left in service at QS now is 198? I thought that they were keeping only 2 of them (195 and 198). Any more RTS that were just recently retired? Saw 452 and 469 tonight.
MM2000
They're all gone. With the exta CNGs that we're getting in we can retire some RTS that still have some life in them. It's now up to DOT to decide what to do with them.
For our customers the on-time preformance should get better, because for our Maint. shop it's getting easier to "make service".
Mr t__:^)
None of the 12 ex-Bridgeport buses Queens Surface operated are still in service. We presently still have three on the property ... 195, 198, and 204. Their final disposition has not been decided. These ar e the only buses in our fleet that were NOT obtained with Federal $.
Do you still have any of the Flxible New Look "Shorties" that you had a few years back. The Town of Huntington and (I think) Long Beach got rid of theirs....I'd like to know if any are still around the metro NY area for me to photograph
The only types still in our yard are:
- RTS = GMC & TMC (No Novas)
- MCI Classics
- Orion V, diesel & CNG
Mr t__:^)
I saw one artic on M79, 1045 to be exact. WS is to get 1000-1108. My question is when should they start to come into WS?? BTW, Glenn told me that 5251 is in GH now at this moment.
Peace Out
-Clayton
I'm not sure when the first ones will get there, but I'm pretty sure they'll all be there by Spring 2000
Clayton: West Side Depot is getting Artics #1000-#1109 from Gun Hill & Kingsbridge Depot end of this month or next month when the new Artics arrives at Gun Hill & Kingsbridge Depot. My father will be practice driving Artic right after Thankgiving on M79.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
I heard a rumor through my friend who operates out of QV that more 7000s and 7500s are coming. It would probably consist of more of the 1000, 2000 and even the 3000 series. If this IS true, when would this happen? Maybe they're the buses that are stored in an unknown location located on Glenn's roster?! Anybody knows about this, either feel free to put on BT or email me. Thanks.
MM2000
If more buses are to be remanufactured, I would think they would be 1985 series and up.
I forgot to mention that for a New NovaBus it costs $265,000 each.
To Remanufacture it, it's $125,000. It saves the city $140,000 per bus. Can reman 2 buses and it's not even the price for 1 NovaBus.
MM2000
After hearing a lot from people here saying that staten Island is short room for buses, here is a suggestion in mind:reopen Edgewater Depot. What lines should go where? Here is my pick:
Yukon-S44/S94,S55/S56,S59,S61/S91,S74,S78,S79,X1,X2,X3,X4,X5,X6,X7,X8,X9,X15,X17,X19.
Castleton-S40,S42,S46/S96,S48/S98,S53,S54,S57,S62/S92,S66,S67,X10,X11,X12.
Edgewater-S51,S52,S76,X13,X14,X16,X18,X20.
unless there could be a depot closer to Yukon, in which case, moves some of the express routes there, cause they are supposed to eventually start up new routes for the South Shore.
A new staten island garage is in the plans to be called "West Shore"! I will attempt to keep BT posted on it!
Trevor
Where will this new depot on Staten Island be built at, when will construction start & when will this depot open.
Also, what's going on with a new Brooklyn Depot, I heard that a new depot is planned to be built in Maspeth, Queens & another is reopening Crosstown as as operating depot in 2000 or 2001. If a new Brooklyn depot is in the planning stages, where will it be built, if Crosstown reopens, what year will it be reopen as a operating depot.
Finally, what is BT.
Please post on bustalk.
Sincerely,
Mike
I know this is off subject kinda, but it was asked, so I'll answer.
BT is an abbrevation of bustalk.
There have been too spots that the TA has identified to build a new depot; both are on the south shore. The city owns one parcel, and would like to sell it to a private delveloper for a retail center and a school.
Money for a third depot was in the last capital plan, but removed. It's not even IN this plan. So unless there's a special expenditure, SI won't get a new depot for another 5 years, even though it was needed 10 years ago, and is desperately needed now.
-Hank
While it's a good idea on the surface, Edgewater is not a viable option. It's underwater (Pun intended). Currently, it's just a lot that is being used for RTS storage, about 30 of them.
Edgewater was closed in 1985, after Yukon opened, because of structural deficiencies, namely, it collapsed into the harbor, turning firhbowls into....
-Hank
Instead of needing a new depot, why not store some Express buses in manhattan??? I can't see why they don't store them at WS.
They store some ther in the midday hours. But what is the feasibility of having B/Os report to a Manhattan depot at 5AM to deadhead to SI knowing that anywhere at anytime traffic would be such a mess that these buses can't get out of Manhattan? Thus no buses at all in SI.
Thank you. I did not realize that. But, for buses like the X1 and X10 which also run with passengers to SI during morning rush hour I see nothing wrong with.
Those buses start their runs on SI. The first outbound bus does not come back until well after the first inbound has finished its route.
-HAnk
Thanks for the response.
N1
Hewlett
Green Acres
Valley Stream
Elmont
Jamaica via Hempstead Tpke
Jamaica
---------------------------------
N2
Green Acres
Valley Stream
N.Valley Stream
Floral Park
Elmont
Jamiaca via Hempstead Tpke
Jamaica
=================================
n3
Green Acres
Valley Stream
Malverne
Franklin Square
Jamaica via Hempstead Tpke
Jamaica
Franklin Sq via Hempstead Tpke
---------------------------------
N4
Freeport via Merrick Road
Freepport
Rockville Centre via Merrick
Valley Stream
Jamaica
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
N6
Hempstead via Hempstead Tpke
Hempstead
Jamaica via Hempstead Tpke
Jamaica
---------------------------------
N15 Roosevelt FIeld
Hempstead
Rockville Centre
Long Beach
---------------------------------
N16 Roosevelt Field
Nassau Comm College
Hempstead
Rockville Centre
Baldwin ---Silver Lake
---------------------------------
N17 Hempstead
N17 Rockville Centre
=================================
N19 Babylon via Merrick Rd
Sunrise Mall via Merrick Rd
Sunrise Mall
Freeeport via Montauk Hwy/ Merrick Rd
----------------------------------------
N20 Hicksville via Northern Blvd
Hicksville
Greenvale
Roslyn via Nothern Blvd
Roslyn
Great NEck via Northern BLvd
Great Neck
Flushing
Flushing via Northern Blvdd
-------------------------------
---------
N21 Glen cove via NOrthern Blvd
Glen COve
Roslyn via Northern Blvd
Roslyn
Great Neck via Northern Blvd
Great Neck
Flushing via Northern Blvd
Flushing
Please let me know if you see anything missing,,incorrect,etc
Steve
N22
Hicksville via Hillside Av
Hicksville
Roosevelt Field via Hillside Av
Roosevelt Field
Mineola via Hillside Av
Mineola
Williston Park via Hillside Av
Jamaica via Hillside Av
Jamaica
------------------------------------------
N22A
Roosevelt Field via Hillside Av
Rooosevelt Field
Carle Place via Hillside Av
WIlliston Park via Hillside
Jamaica VIa Hillside Av
Jamaica
==========================================
N23
Manorhaven
Port Washington
Roslyn
Mineola
------------------------------------------
N24
East Meadow via Jericho
Roosevelt FIeld via Jericho
Roosevelt FIeld
Mineola via Jericho Tpke
Jamaica via Jericho Tpke
Jamaica
5 Corners------Lynbrook
Denton Av---East Rockaway
Nassau Road -- Roosevelt
------------------------------------------
N25 Great NEck
New Hyde Park
Lynbrook
Franklyn Square
===========================================
N26
Great Neck
Manhasset
Jamaica via Hillside Av
------------------------------------------
N27
Glen Cove
Roslyn
Rooselt Field
Hempstead
------------------------------------------
N28 Roslyn
N31 Hempstead via W.Broadway/Hempstead Av
Hempstead
Malverne
Lynbrook via W.Broadway
Lynbrook
Far Rockaway via Hempstead Av/ W Broadway
N32 Hempstead via Central Av/Hempstead Av
Hempstead
Malverne
Lynbrook via Central Av
Lynbrook
Far Rockaway via Hempstead Av.Central Av
Emory Road--Mineola
Cathedral Av--Hempstead
Admiral Lane---Uniondale
________________________________________
N33 Long Beach
N33 Far Rockaway
==========================================
N35
Westbury
Nasssau Comm College
Roosevelt Field
Hempstead
------------------------------------------
N36
Freeport via Atlantic Av
Lynbrook via Atlantic Av
Emory Road ---Mineola
Cathedral --Hempstead
Admiral Lane--Uniondale
------------------------------------------
N37
Hempstead
Baldwin
------------------------------------------
N40
Mineola via N.Main St/N franklin Av
Mineola
Hempstead
Freeport via N Franklin Av/N Main st
Freeport
Admiral Lane--Uniondale
Stewart Av---Hicksville
------------------------------------------
N41
Mineola via Babylon Tpke / N.Franklin Av
Mineola
Hempstead
Freeport via N.Franklin Av / Babylon Tpke
Freeport
I am missing the JFK FLYER
N45
Roosevelt Field
Nassau Community COllege
Bellmore
------------------------------------------
N46
Bellmore
East Meadow via Front St
Hempstead via Front St
Hempstead
------------------------------------------
n47
east Meadow via Front St
Hempstead via Front St
Hempstead
-------------------------------------------
N48 Jericho via Front St/Carmen Av
Hicksville via Front St/Carmen
Hempstead via Carmen Av
Hempstead
------------------------------------------
n49
Jericho via Front St/ Newbridge
Hicksville via Front St / Newbridge Rd
Hempstead vvia Newbridge Rd/ Front St
HEmpstead via Front St
Nassau Road ---Roosevelt
-----------------------------------------
N50
Hicksville
Bellmore
==================================
N51 Roosevelt Field
Nassau Community College
Merick
==================================
N54 Amityville ---via Jerusalem Av
Sunrise Mall via Jerusalem Av
Massapequa
Hempstead via Jerusalem Av
=================================
N55 Sunrise Mall via Jerusalem Av
Massapequa
Hempstead via JErusalem Av
=================================
N57 Great NEck Loop
-----------------------------------
N58 Kings Point via Middle Neck Rd
Academy via Middle Neck Road
Great NEck via Middle Neck RRd
==================================
N62 Freeport
South Freeport Loop
===================================
N70 Melville
Farmingdale via Hempstead Tpke
Hempstead via Hempstead Tpke
====================================
N71 Sunrise Mall via Hempstead Tpke
Levitown via Hempstead Tpke
Hempstead via Hempstead Tpke
------------------------------
N72 Babylon via Hempstead TPke
Farmingdale via Hempstead TPke
Hempstead via Hempstead TPke
------------------------------
N73 Hicksville
Wantagh
Levittown
--------------------------------
N74 Hicksville
Wantagh
===================================
N78 Plainview via Old Country Road
Mineola via Old Country Road
-------------------------------------
N79 S.Huntington via Old COuntry
Hicksville via Old COuntry Rd
Roosevelt Field via Old COuntry Road
Mineola
-----------------------------------------
N80
Hicksville
Massapequa
Sunrside Mall
-------------------------
N81
Hicksville
Massapequa
Sunrise Mall
----------------------------
JB 24 Jones Beach
JB 50 Jones Beach
JB 50 Wantagh
JB 24 Jamaica
JB 62 Jones Beach --
JB 62 Jones Beach via Freeport
JB 62 Freeport
JB 62 Freeport via Wantagh
N98 LIRR Express Melville
N98 LIRR Express Farmingdale
NOT IN SERVICE
PLEASE NOTE,,I AM MISSING THE JFK FLYER---HELP !!
STEVE
I don't think they have a sign listing for there Orions/Gillags-they use strictly Thomas liners on that run(schoolbus type sign that says JFK Flyer)
Just to add something for N79 but not 100% sure of the exact reading, there is a reading for Plainview during evening service. It might read "N79 Via Plainview" or " N79 Plainview."
Can you check it out ,,thanks
Steve
Add the following to N79 destination sign reading:
N79 PLAINVIEW
hers what lines i think these buses should go.
Bklyn-B41,(not to e 71st),B44,B46,B68.
Manhattan-M103,M15,M31,M42,M23,M79,M86,M96,Q32,X90/X92.
Staten Island-X1,X2,X3,X4,X17,X19,X31.
Queens-Q32,Q60,Q11(to Liberty Av only),
Bronx-Bx1,Bx2,Bx12,Bx41.
this is which lines i believe should have articulateds lines.
Don't forget the Bx5 because a lot of people that live in soundview take the bus to Hunt Point Station in the morning & in the afternoon. Yesterday afternoon i saw Artic #1037 ran on Bx5. Alos don't forget the M101 & M102 in Manhattan & Express bus don't need Articulated buses.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
In Queens,,you listed a few Green Bus Line Routes,,unless I am wrong,,there are no Artics ,,as of yet
Not on the M79, M86, or M96 until the MTA puts my idea for the M87 and M125 into place. These are like subway lines and you can exit the subway, board the bus for free, and re-enter the subway at the following stops. They only make the following stops:
M87: 86th/Lex (4, 5, 6), 86th/CPW (B, C), 86th/Bway (1, 9), Bway/96th (1, 2, 3, 9)
M125: 125th/Lex (4, 5, 6), 125th/Lenox (2, 3), 125th/8th (A, B, C, D), 125th/Bway (1, 9).
The Expresses have those tour buses, they don't need artics.
Q32, M4, M60, Q48, B15, any other bus serving LGA, JFK, or Penn Station gets the low-floor hybrids.
M79, M86, M96 keep the RTSs.
How about the Q44, which runs from the Bronx to Flushing and
Jamaica via the Whitestone Bridge and Main Street. This important
bus line serves the following subway stations:
East Tremont Avenue-Boston Road (West Farms Square)-2/5
Castle Hill Avenue-6
Main Street, Flushing-7
179th Street, Jamaica-F
Jamaica Center-Parsons & Archer-E/J/Z
The only place for artics in Queens would be perhaps the 46. The 44 runs at a 10 minute headway and that's just fine for now. Then over the course of the day with the reliefs and all the bus itself may flip flop with the 20A or B. 123 Street from what I see in Colleg Point is not very turn friendly.
Also the left onto Westchester Av from Pugsley just before Hugh Grant Circle West Farms-bound might not be too pretty either.
The Q44 doesn't go to 179 ST on the F line.
The Q44 passes by the Parkchester station on the 6. It does not stop at CH Ave. Also in Queens I believe it stop by the Sutphin Blvd stop on the F..........
B46M Limited
The Q44 now also passes by the Van Wyke/Briarwood Sta. E & F lines.
Since when did the M4 serve any airport??. I've seen this error in a few postings.
It never has. The posts say Penn Station or any major transportstion center. I would prefer taking an M4 Limited instead of the E and 6 to the upper east side if I could get a suitcase on board the bus. Same thing with the M60. If I know I will be taking the bus to LaGuardia, I travel really light and don't bring a suitcase, or else I would never get it in and out of the bus. The M4, M60, Q48, Q3, B15, and Q32 would get the low floor hybrids.
In the Bronx I believe they definitely should stay on the BX55.
Wayne
Never been on a Staten Island bus, huh? The x-buses are just fine as-is. Especially with the peak service and the new MCIs. The issue with the x-bus is that everyone wants a seat, and a dependable bus. With the MCIs, this is what they get. The only routes that could use artics on Staten Island are the s61/91, s62/92, s48, s78, and s79. All are long-distance routes that are frequently overcrowded. The s79 goes between 86st in Brooklyn, and the SI Mall, both major shopping areas; and travels on Hylan Blvd, the #3 heaviest corridor on the island (Victory Blvd and Forest Ave being 1-2)
-Hank
How about the M14?
I thought the Bx41 had already been chosen to have them next year. I missed some posts in Sept. and October; which routes are actually getting articulateds in 1999-2000?
The B2 and B31 need them during the evening rush. It is not uncommon to wait in line at Kings Highway D Q and have two buses come and go before geting on one.
Thats an easy left turn to make with an artic!!!!!!!!!!!
Just on where this new Brooklyn Bus Depot will be built (exact location) & will it open as a operating depot in 2001 or 2002 & how many buses would operate from this new depot & how did you find out about where this new Brooklyn Bus Depot would be built & the year it would open.
Finally, if Crosstown had reopen as a operating depot, how many buses would operate from Crosstown.
Please feel free to post any information on bustalk.
Sincerely,
Mike
If Crosstown bus garage had to be bebuilt and reopened, the fol-
lowing routes would be transferred there:
B18, B24, B39, B43, B48, Q59
Thus, Fresh Pond would get the following routes:
B13, B14, B20, B26, B38, B52, B54, Q54, Q55, B57, Q58, plus Flat-
bush's share of B6
Flatbush would then get the B9, and the B45 moves to Gleason, while
the B11 moves to Ulmer Park
Why would the B6 and B14 go to FP? I think that the B61 should go to Crosstown. The B45 to Gleason??????????
mike,i am a bus operator at ulmer park depot.the info that
i have been posting here comes from many sources at my job.
monthly newsletters,and talking with supervisors and formen.
what i have heard is that the ta is "looking into " a new depot
using a building currently owned by UPS in maspeth.i do not know
the exact location,nor do i know what lines would go there.
it would make sense that anything operating in the long is city/
greenpoint area would go there(B48,B61,B43,etc)
rest assured,it takes the ta a long time to set up a new depot.
trust me,i've seen them in action these 17 years i've worked for
them.concerning crosstown,it will remain a paint shop.i know people
that work there and they assure me of that.the last ta newsletter
i read proclaimed 2001-2002 as the approximate opening "if" they
can aquire the site.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
Yes, I announced that 995 was being transferred to the Bronx and so it was. But Novabus (the vendor) said, "Put it back!" So 995 is back at Hudson. Of course, I still haven't driven it in a while and one of our boys had a little scrape with her (right rear). TA is "discussing" the transfer with Novabus at this time.
995 was running today on the Q32.
I rode on 995 on Q32 run 116 tonight. Everybody was shocked to see it and passerbys were looking in the bus while it was parked along Northern Blvd. I hope she does not leave Pier.
MM2000
When I got on it on the M14, nobody really cared (well ofcourse I did), mabye because it was evening rush-hour and they wanted to get home. Did it always have pull-cords?
Yes!
Where can I catch the 995? I once saw it out of service on Chambers Street.
995 operates out of Hudson Pier Depot. Can catch it anywhere. Lately she's been on the Q32.
You folks have been taking those recreational drugs again, right? The route is just too narrow in too many places to allow artics. End of story.
As for the other suggestions, yes, it would be nice to have artics on the the north/south eastside Manhattan routes but expediency has to win out here. There just aren't enough artics and the TA wants routes to be 100% artics or none at all for Manhattan. There is also a storage problem in that none of the depots in Manhattan can store that many artics. So, bottom line, artics in Manhattan will be restricted to crosstown routes above 14 Street.
Restricted to crosstown eoutes avobe 14th... does that include 14th itself?
The Q32 will not be extended to LaGuardia. The Q33 does that trip very nicely, thank you very much. However, and this should put a scare into you Q32 riders, there is a plan on the back burner to eliminate the turn on 81 Street and extend the Q32 to Main Street in Flushing. Not only will this add to traffic delays (I mean, you wouldn't drive on Roosevelt Avenue, would you?) but it would mean Stengel Depot having all the runs on the line. You 40 or so people that ride Queensbound Q32s before 7 am wouldn't mind switching to the train, would you?
Oh yes that shoulld fun. Add another line to the 23 alraedy there. Ayt least there will be some redundancy with the 7 for the whole length of Roosevelt whenever that happens.
Running the Q 32o LaGuardia was only a suggestion if the city took over the Franchise Busses in Queens
In my insiders guide, it says that the X25, X27, X28, and X29 come out of Ulmer Depot. My X25 100% of the time is from Jackie Gleason Depot. Any ideas why? And why isin't the X25 stored at WS?
The x25 is not a line of it's own it is interlined with both the X27 and x29. Essentially the X25 was created to fill out half because most times it's inpossible to do 2 full line trips on on half because running time is to long.
I really don't see how the X25 is interlined with the X27 and X29. And why does it also come out of JG if it says it doesn't?
As a operator on the X27 I do a X25 trip in the evening. The X25 was always interlined with the X27&29 even before the X27 was transfered to Ulmer Park
First, can you please tell me HOW the X25 is interlined with the X27,28,29? And why does my X25 come out of JG?
the 25x is just a uptown and downtown express running in manhattan the transit authority gets the bus drivers on the 27,28,29 to do a trip on their way back to brooklyn or in the evening to make a trip uptown when they would normaly be going empty,so they get their moneys worth of the operator for the days pay. your 25x comes out of jg because thats the bus you catch. the next bus behind him might come out of ulmer park.
Ether way this wound be a problem when the X27 goes back to Ulmer Park. It is just amatter of time when the repairs at UP are completed sometime next year.
That didn't answer my question at all. The X25 and the X27,28,29 do not follow the same route anywhere. And if in the insiders guide it says all X25's come out of Ulmer Park, how come mine doesn't?
The guide was probably printed before they switched the 27X to JG. Whats the big deal????
That doesn't answer my X25 question.
There seems to be enough in the responses to answer your questions, which were similar what I was wondering.
"In my insiders guide, it says that the X25, X27, X28, and X29 come out of Ulmer Depot."
The X27 moved to JG in September...I received the Guide around the same time so it was already at the printer before the x27 (along with some x25 runs) moved to JG from Ulmer Park.
"My X25 100% of the time is from Jackie Gleason Depot."
Most of the evening runs that I see are JG buses (5:35, 6:00, 6:30)...in the morning the 7:40 seems to be a JG bus, the 8:05 seems to be UP. I think the 10:00 is JG...as for what's in between, my boss isn't that willing to indulge my curiosity to that degree.
"Any ideas why?"
He seems to have this endearingly naive belief I should be working...oh, I'm sorry, you meant why are the buses from Gleason. Instead of running some expresses back to Brooklyn empty, they carry passengers on the X25 from midtown to the Battery before returning to Brooklyn. Likewise, come the evening, instead of leaving the Battery tunnel and running empty to Midtown, some X27s out of JG run as X25s before making the magical transformation to the X27 and returning to Brooklyn with weary commuters.
"And why isin't the X25 stored at WS?"
This is the frightening part, and the one which causes me to doubt the explanation...by using JG buses and not WS, the TA seems to be maximizing productivity and generating revenue with buses that would otherwise be running empty. After all, the X25 would have to deadhead back to WS from the Battery in the AM, while the X27 would at the same time be deadheading to Bklyn. So, the X25 runs actually make sense, which on the surface would tend to incline one to dismiss it as an explanation.
Thanks :-)
Does anybody really think an artic is going to fit on Roosevelt Avenue weaving in and out of livery cabs for the whole length let alone struggling up 82nd Street on its way to LGA???
I'm not a bus driver nor am I familiar with some of those streets, but I've always been impressed with Bee Lines articulateds out of Bedford Park when they run under the Bronx el on Jerome Ave, I think that's the street, where they really seem to work in tight quarters.
Ok... NOBODY EVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT Q32 AND ARCTICULATEDS! It was said to put the low-floor hybrids on that route, not arctics!
While everyone is on the artic and route creation trip here on this board.....
let me offer...
1. A new local line in Queens running from Woodhaven and Queens Blvd to Horace harding and Little Neck Pkwy. That is to say as it set up now to ride from point A to point B now would require a two seat ride. Why not make it one? Keep the 30 and 88 as they are and add this additional line say at rush hours at first and give it a try, maybe even Limited.
2. To serve the areas of Northern Queens in the overnight hours when the 14, 15, 16 and 76 arent running, run a shuttle loop from main and Roosevelt like the 14, up 149 St, across the Cross island Service Rd, hang a right on Willets Point like the 16 (heading back Flushing bound now), down Franny Lew and 29 Avenue back to Flushing. Run a similar service in reverse. It would only run three to four hours a night. Three buses one way, three buses the other.
They used to do that when they had the 14 and 15 combined at late nites
I still can't understand why the Q14 runs on 149 Street and the Q15 runs on 150 Street. Both services should run on 150th Street at all times. If you live in that neighborhood, want to get to Flushing quickly and don't have the bus schedule memorized, do you stand on 149th Street or 150th Street?
I'm sure plenty of people decide to stand on one street and watch the bus go down the other street. Both lines should be combined on 150th Street going into Whitestone, then making a right turn around 10 Av. and continue toward the Q15's usual terminal. Service could be increased, including overnight, and I'm sure Q15 passengers wouldn't mind going a few blocks out of their way.
I'm surprised the Q15 doesn't have 24 hour service. There's no 24 hour service anywhere nearby except Q44 on Parsons Blvd. and Q28, also many blocks away.
I'd also get rid of the Willets Point Blvd. branch of the Q16 and simply extend the Q34 about 20 blocks further on Willets Point Blvd. Once again, on weekends or evenings, if you don't have the Q16 schedule memorized, you might be standing on Willets Point Blvd. or Francis Lewis Blvd. and watch the Q16 bus going down the other branch, only a few blocks away.
Reggie
nh153@mail.com
Early today i was looking at Glenn MTA Bus Roster & i was really suprise that Gun Hill Depot getting 80 Artics & Kingsbridge getting 180 Artics. I wonder why Kingsbrige Depot getting more Artics than Gun Hill Depot? Also Gun Hill Depot giving up Novabus #5075-#5124 to Manhattan Divison. Artics #1000-1109 going to West Side Depot.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
You answered your own question! The used Nova's & Artics would be transfered to Manhattan and new Artics asigned to the Bronx. It must be concluded that ridership data dictate the amounts assigned.
Which manhattan depot is getting 5075-5124?
126th street depot has them and those numbers are NOVA RTS
So does it still have the ones up to 5074?
the NOVA RTS go up to 5249. that one is at kingsbridge
Huh? What you said made no sense.
I am confused. 126th Street does not have 5074-5124. Gun Hill still has these units. Now are they being transferred to 126th street and if so where are they going to put them, becacuse they have no room for anything else now! Does this also mean that if 5074-5124 go to 126th Street, that a like number of units will be transferred to another depot? Thanks in advance!
DaShawn
I want to know which depot get Orions buses from Orion #173-316 in 1993 Also what assignment from Orion #101-#172 went to??
Could be LI Bus ????
Mr t__:^)
When they were first delivered their assignments were:
101-172 (ex 93001-93072) - Staten Island Express
173-232, 291-297, 299-300 - Casel Stengel
233-290, 298, 301-316 - Kingsbridge
317 (CNG) - Jackie Gleason
The Staten Island buses were at Castleton and Yukon, but I don't know how they were split. I'm sure someone like Hank can tell us exactly which buses were at Castleton and Yukon.
Wayne
101-150 yukon,151-172 castleton in 1993. currently 115-154 yukon. 155-172 castleton. 101-114 are at casey stengel.
I have saw Orion 157 with Yukon stickers recently.
I saw Orion 157 with Yukon stickers recently. (Just wanted to correct my grammer before I get attacked by the Killer Bees on Bus Talk)
Peace,
KayBee
from what i hear theyll all be going to stengel soon as soon as mci shipment complete.
Nope, Hank doesn't know THAT much.
-Hank
So that mean Orion #173-#232 been there at Casey Stengel since 1993 until mid-summer of this year & went to Mother Hale Depot. How long Orion #233-#290, #298 & #301-#316 stay in Kingsbridge Depot until they transfers to other Depot?? I remember seeing Orion buses ran on M100 & Bx9 until 1995 or 1996.
When the 1993 Orion V were delivered they stayed at their respective depots until 1996 when Kingsbridge lost all of their 1993 Orions. The first few (233 to approx 250) went to Staten Island. The rest of them went to Casel Stengel making it nearly all Orion. There were still a couple of 3900's and most of the 1700 remained at Casey Stengel. Kingsbridge was then left it's 50 1995 Orions (402-451).
Wayne
I want to know which depot get Orions buses from Orion #173-316 in 1993 Also what assignment from Orion #173-#316 went to??
Let me know what you need,,I will help you
Steve
You can also include DOT ,Roosevelt Island,and Private Co of Boro Park
In the future I foresee possibly seven depots opeating artics. Starting in brooklyn East New York the line could be The B12,17,42,82,83 which are assigned there already and two line shifts the B6 from Ulmer Park, and the B35 from Gleason.
In Manhatan West side which is starting recieve them as we speek the route of operation would be the M14,16/34,42,79,and 86. 100 Street when it reopens M79,86,101,102,103. And Eventally 126 Street M15,31/57. The Bronx Kingsbridge Bx1/2,3,7,9,36,41,55. Gun hill Bx5,12,40/42.
In Queens if they decide to Q4,5,17,46,83,85 this would have to be a new depot.
I would also like to see the M104 get artics but if that happends It would have to move to West Side and the PO/PI would be very expensivee because of the ridersip patterns Downtown in AM
Uptown in PM.
Also in Brooklyn I would like to see Flatbush get Artic but the Depot has to to be modified and currently the TA is is dispute with the commumitee over a gas spill asnd has delayed teh modification tioll at least 2002 at east.
GET OF THE IDEA OF ARTICS ON THE M79 AND M86!!! Despite what the TA thinks, I have ridden the line at every time you could imagine and have never seen the bus 100% full. Everyone has managed to get on and there is still room for a few more people. The 50% extra space is NOT needed on the 79 and 86. Please, put the extra space where it is needed, on the north-south routes on the east side of Manhattan (M1-3, M15, M101-3).
I totally agree with you! The North-South lines of the East Side of Manhattan really need those buses. The M101,102,103 are perfect for that type of bus and the M1,2,4,5 are excellent for these types of buses as well. I think the reason that these buses are going to these crosstown lines are because of political reasons and the customers that these lines serve. This is terrible and I really feel that these buses should be placed where they are really needed.
Peace
DaShawn
The M14 does not come out of West Side, it comes out of Hudson Pier.
And the arctics on the M79 and M86 is ridiculous.
Tevi: Why you said it ridiculous to have artics on M79 & M86. Do you know why?? because more people get on the buses go west side & east side. My father work on M79 in the morning & it a pass in the ass because it was so crowded on the bus. So why don't you go check out M79 & M86 in the morning or evening after 4pm & you will understand.
Peace Out
David Justiniano
Here's an idea, David.
One day, during rush hour, get on an M15 somewhere along-mid route. Or an M14 around 5:30 PM. Relatively, it's not worth it.
I been on M15 many time & it a good idea to have the Artics but MTA will not giving Artics to 126st Depot it is up to MTA not us. Any way Hudson Depot will close down in 2001 & M14 will go to West Side Depot & maybe you will find Artics on M14 in the future. Trust me Tevi.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
PS I know West Side & maybe new 100st Depot will have Artics in 2001 after Hudson Depot close.
My point wasn't giving arctics to 126th, it was it needs them.
Yeah but certain depots can not handle the Artics!!! The M15 operates out of 126St depot. Right now the 126St depot cannot handle the Artics space so that is the reason why the M15 does not have them........
B46M Limited
If they REALLY wanted to run Artics on the M15, they'd just move the route to another depot.
-Hank
I was thinking about that. Why dont they bring the M15 to West Side?
B46M Limited
I doubt the TA side of TWU would be willing to surrender 120+ runs to OA. They already took the 27/50 when WS opened.
From the looks of things Hudson will be around much longer than 2001, with the NIMBY situation going on in East Harlem 100 street will not be opening on time. The M79 & M86 are lines that carry a type of customer that gets what they want because they have close connections to their politicians and when you have that kind of power on your side alot of things happen that don't necessarly happen in other places. So when you say that "WE" don't have any say that to me is Bull! This is our money being spent and people all over the city have to learn how to speak up when it's time and get what is needed. Now all the buses in Manhattan have big surges in ridership but to me the M79/86 are not so exclusive to this problem that they should get Artic service 1st, there are lot of other lines like Tevi said The M14/M15 which carry way more people than the 79 & 86. If the MTA really wanted to, they could move the M15 to West Side and debut Artic service on that line!
Peace
DaShawn
The M15 is crowded at 4AM on a Saturday when one gets on at 12st. It could use artics, but my understanding is that they intend to use a locating system to better schedule and dispatch the route.
I would expect, however, if the 126st Depot is ever rebuilt, the TA will be forced to make it a CNG depot. Thus, we may eventually see New Flyers C60s on the route. Probably won't see LF buses, though.
-Hank
I agree with Tevi. As i've said in prior posts, I have taken the M79 at every time possible except morning rush hour (sleeping late is virtually the only thing that has priority over riding buses and trains, lol) and late at night. I have never seen the bus crowded enough for the need of artics on the route. Meanwhile, on the M1, M2, M3, M15, M101, M102, and M103, they need the extra space. Besides, if the buses had more space and came more frequently, people would take the bus and not the overcrowded 4, 5, and 6 trains. Yes, I agree the bus is crowded, but, no one is getting left behind at any stops because there is no room and there are better places for the artics to run.
I passed by Ulmer Park today, and in the back at Bay37th i saw these buses sitting there:
4643
4684
4702
4710
the above buses had the Jackie Gleason Sticker on them. Are these buses here permantly or temporary? Also saw #4865(Castleton Sticker)parked with the word "Heads" in white on it. What does that mean? Also saw #3160 still there. Guess it not leaving. If anyone knows anything of these items, let me know.
all those buses parked in the yard on bay 37th street are dead buses.the word heads means it needs new heads for the engine.as far as depot stickers go they almost mean nothing now buses are moved from one depot to another so often they dont have the time or bother to change them like the coaches in jg that came from ulmer park so have been changed and others still say ulmer park.
Here's a fluke in the 1999 insider guide to buses noone noticed before. It said in its history that there used to be 3 differnt M15 routes, that were discountined in the late 70's. But this is not true. this is the list of M15 routes:
South Ferry to 126th St-LTD
South Ferry to 96th St-LTD
South Ferry to 126th St
South Ferry to 96th St
City Hall to 96th St-LTD
City Hall to 126th St-LTD
City Hall to 96th St
City Hall to 126th St
126th St To Houston St
Houston St to 126th St
if there was a differnt route other then the m15 on 1st and 2nd ave in the 70's, i dontremember it.
The Q32 was previously the M32 and previous to that it was once called the 15.(Not sure if "M" was used preceding the route number).
The M-15 always has been the 1st Ave Line. Prior to the 60s you could ride on 3 different busses in Manhatten numbered 15 M-15 1ST-2ND AVES NYCTA 15- 23RD sTREET CROSSTOWN NYC OMNIBUS 15- 5TH AVE-JACKSON HTS QUEENS 5TH AVE COACH
Sorry I pressed the wrong button. even after NYC Omnibus and 5th Ave became one, the company still ran 2 busses number 15 The busses that ran with a M- were the NYCTA, Ave B and East Bdwy, and Surface Lines had M before the numbers. I think the present number system in Manhatten came about around 1967 or 68.
the Q32 used to be 15 JACKSON HTS=5 AV.the M23 used to be Number 15
That's not what they mean. All those you list are variations on a theme, that being the route that runs from South Ferry to Harlem. Some buses run only a partial route (to 96st northbound, to City Hall or Houston St. southbound.)
There used to be 3 different routes in Manhattan that used the number 15. I remember reading previously the M32/Q32, and I'm sure someone else has listed the other.
-Hank
There also were at least 2 #6 buses. The 6th Ave. Line betw. CPS and South Ferry and another line which became the M30. Also 2 different #3's, with the one that changed now existing as the M27/M50.
As I said, there were a lot of duplications in numbers in Manhatten until the late 60s, and even some triplicates
The reason was that NYC Omnibus and 5th Ave. Coach had duplicate route #s without an M prefix, while NYC Transit, Surface Transit, and Ave. B all used an M-prefix. Some other duplicates (original TA routes listed first):
1 Madison-Chambers Sts (now M22) and 4th/Madison Aves.
7: 65th/66th Sts Xtown (now M66) and Broadway-Columbus-Lenox
11: York Ave (now M31) and Columbus-Amsterdam Aves.
The most confusing situation was when two of the routes would intersect (for example, the #15 23d St xtown crossed the #15 Jackson Heights routes at 5th Ave; and the #15 1st/2nd Aves. further east).
The renumbering to elimniate duplicate #s took place in the summer of 1974. Since then additional Manhattan route # changes have occurred, most notably the use of street numbers for xtown routes (e.g., 42d St is now M42; was originally M106).
That had to be the most sensible route number change in HISTORY.
-Hank
Actually the 15-5th Avenue Southern Terminal was 25th St, just outside the old Gilbert Hall of Science across from Madison Sq Park, it never made it to 23rd St
For those interested parties
Route 1T
Tarrytown
1C
Westchester Community College
1W
White Plains
Southbound on Broadway ,,U Turn at 242 to Stand ,,facing Northbound
Route 2 Tudor Woods
same as the number 1
------------------------------
Route 3 White Plains Express
same as the number 1
-------------------------------
Route 4 Getty Square and Bedford Park
SB via McClean Av, Central Av, I-87 Jerome av,to stand between 204 and Bedford Park Blvd Car Wash
NB via Bedford Park Blvd Ramp to Jerome ,Bear Right up theRamp ,,,Left on Grand Concourse,Light ,stay in Center Lane ,,,,Left on Van Cortland Avenue East
,,Right on Jerome Av,McClean Av,,,,,,,,
------------------------------------------
Route 8 Tuckahoe Station and Mt St Vincents
SB via Riverdale Av,,make U-Turn at Ellsworth Av by Mobil Gas
NB contine on Riverale Av
------------------------------------
Route 20 White Plains
and Bedford Park
Start Jerome Av
Left Bedford Pk ,P/u at Coffee Shop ,,Do not layover
Bear Right on Ramp
Left on Grand Concourse Middle Lane only
Left Van Cortland Avenue ,,flag stops
right Jerome Av
Cenral Av
SB via Central Av
Jerome Av to 240 st ,before Car Wash
This bus goes to Cross County Mall,Yonkers
-----------
20X Express
Route 21 Fordham Road to Bedford Park
Start Valentine Av and Fordham Rd
Left on Fordham
Left on East Kingsbridge Rd
Bear Left ,proceed UNDER Grand Concourse
Kingsbridge Road
Right on Jerome
Right on Bedford Park Blvd
SB from Jerome Av
Left on Kingsbridge Rd
Go Under Grand Concourse TUNNEL
Right on Valentine Av,,,last stop at Fordham Road
-------------------------------------------
Route 25 Yonkers Railroad Station
Cross County Mall,Yonkers,
Kimball A
Sterling Av
Woodlawn Road
McClean Av
Nereid Av
to White Plains Road
Turn around via
Left on Wickham Av
Barnes Av
Nereid Av
Return via Nereid at White Plains Rd
Nereid Av
McClean Av
Woodlawn Rd
Sterling Av
Kimball Av
Cross Cty Mall,Yonkers,,,
----------------------------
Route 26 Bronxville Station
Cross Cty Mall,Yonkers
Kumball Av
Midland A
Bronx River Road
238 st to far side of White Plains Rd
Turnaround via Nereid and Wickham
Barnes Av
Nereid to whitePlains Rd
Return via Neried
Bronx River Road
Midland Av
Kimball Av
Cross Cty Mall,Yonkers
---------------------------------
Route 40 Mount Vernon
White Plains Road
bet 241 and St Ouen St
Proceed via White Plains Rd,
first St
5 Av
Stevens Av
Ret via
SB Prospect Av
N 5 Avenue
1 St
White Plains Road
LAst stop North Side of 241 st
Route 41 Express
----------------------------------------
Route 42 New Rochelle Station
SB via Fulton Av,,
E THird St
S Fifth Av
West 1 st
White Plains Road
to 233 street
Ret via White Plains Rd
E233 st
Byron Av
E 236 st
White Plains
S 5 Av
E 3 Av
S Fulton Av
Turnaround at 241 and White Plains Road
SB on White Plains Rd
Left on 241 st
U Turn at 241 .Baychester Av Hoxie St Intersection
241 St westbound now
White Plains Rd Northbound
---------------------------------------
Route 45 New Rochelle
Franklin Av
Pelham Rd
Shore Road
Rte 95 south
Westchestr Av Exit 8A
Bruckner Blvd to Pelham Bay IRT
Ret via Bruckner
Wilkenson
Bruckner
Orchard Bch City Isl signs
Shore Rd North
Franklin Av
---------------------
52 Bronxville
Prspect Av ,Mt Vernon
N 5 Av
Dyre Av
Boston Post Rd
Bivona st st
TUrnaround at Reeds Mill La
U Turn
Ret via
Bivona St
Boston Post Rd
Dyre Av
S 5 Av
Stevens Av
--------------------------------
Route 55 Cross County Mall
Dyre ant Light St IRT
via Dyre Av
E 233 st
Provost Av
S 3 Av rte 22
ret via
S 3 av av
Provost Av
Light st
--------------------------------
60--62----90 Series
Boston Post Road SB
R Fordham Road
R Bronx Zoo Service Road
L Fordham Rd
R Kingsbridge Rd
L 192 St
L Valentine AV
Ret from E Fordham Rd and Tiebout Av
R at green sign from Bronx Zoo servie Road
L on Fordahm Rd
now Pelham Pkwy
L Boston Road
The new CNG Orions are arriving at QS. Saw 424, 452 and 469 within the past 3 days along Queens Blvd.
MM2000
B1: Combine with B64 for B86.
B2: Combine with B100 for crosstown route. Or the Q35 for Rockaway route.
B11: Extend to Rockaway Pkwy station(L)
B12: Extend along Parkside Ave to Prospect Park Circle.
B13: Combine with B18
B14: Extend to GAP on the westbound end. Extend to Rockaway Blvd Sta(A) on the eastbound end.
B15: More frequent service to JFK
B18: See B13. Extend to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza.
B23: Extend along Beverly Rd to Kings Hwy.
B25: Extend along Fulton St to City Line.
B35: Extend along NL to Van Siclen or New Lots Station(3)
B36: Everybody knows about that one!!!!
B39: Extend to Bway Jct. Could be used for substitution of J sevice. Then future possible combination with the Q56 for 3 boro bus route...
B41: Limited service rename B21.
B42: Extend to Bway Jct via Rockaway Av and Eastern Pkwy.
B43: Extend to Prospect Park Circle.
B44: Rename Limited service B34.
B45: Extend to Bway Jct via Eastern Pkwy.
B46: Limited sevice rename B47.
B49: Get Limited Service
B54: combine with Q55.
That is all for now, will continue later..........
B46M Limited
If I remember correctly the 11 did at one time to to Rockaway Pky Station The Q56 already serves Jamaica Ave from Bdwy Junction, so no need to extend B25. As to Limited Service, do what they did in Los Angeles, Add a 2 or 3 to the front of numbers so B41 Ltd would be the 241 or 341, or add the letter L after number B41L to denote it is a Ltd.
Yes the B11 did go to Rock Pkwy Sta about a decade ago. Extend the B25 along Fulton St. Maybe that could work with the Limited
B46M Limited
95 pct of the B 25 is duplicated by the subway, so I doubt they will do more to it
Plus the the Q24 is only a block away...........
B46M Limited
Just simply change the limited route sequence to the 90seris simular to Statan Island.
Acualarly I woulld like to see the B71 be exstented to Utica Ave and Eastern Parkway rather than the B14 being exteded to Grand Army Plaza. I disagree with the B11 exstension to Rockerway Parkway because it would make the line to long.
In answer to B46M Limited suggestions here are my comments
1-B1 and B-64 switch terminals. B1 to operate from Mackenzie St to Shore Rd/86th St and B-64 to operate from Stillwell Terminal to Shore Rd/Bay Ridge Ave.
2-B2 to be combined with Command B-100 to operate from E.16th St Sta to 56 Dr/Strickland Ave
3-B-4 extend from Knapp/Voohries to Knapp St/Ave X
4-B-8 to be discontinue service between 95 St and VA Hospital(See B-16 route below)
5-B-11 Leave alone . Service to Rkway Pkway Station needless duplication of B-6 service
6-B-13 extend To Metropolitan Ave via Fresh Pond Rd. Extend B-52 from Myrtle/Wyckoff to Fresh Pond Rd instead of B-13
7-B-14 No Changes. Dulicates IRT subway service to GAP. Service to Rockway Blvd covered by Green Lines Q-7 route.
8-B-16 rerouted to Ft Hamilton Pkway between Dahill Rd and 56/57 St.
New route to be created between 20St/PPW and VA Hospital or 95st Sta
via 13/14 Aves along current B-67,B-16,B-1 and B-8 routes
9-B-18 extend To Williamsburg Bridge Plaza
B10-B-23 extend to Tilden/New York Ave and Beverly Rd/Nostrand Sta.
11-B-25 No changes. Duplicated by Q-24 and Q-56
12-B-35 No changes. Proposed change is duplication of B-15 service
13-B-39 extend to Bowery/Delancey St only.
14-B-40 extend to Kings Plaza via current B-78. Extend B-65 from Ralph Ave to Pennsylvina Ave.. The B-45 can't be extended. Look at the current configuations of both routes
15-B-42 Forget that change. Having taken the B-42/L Line for a good 12 years daily it just will not happen.
16-B-43 Extend to Park Circle
17-B-36 Extend to Kings Plaza
18-B-54/Q-55 combination. Been talked about for over 20 years. Just will not work. Traffic and length will destroy both routes. See current B-82
19-B-68 extend to Stillwell Terminal
20-B-74 extend to Mackenzie Street via Neptune Ave-Brigthon Beach Ave
This does duplicate the B-1 but two different ridership areas
Please note that I grew up next to a TA Bus driver and did work in Operations Planning for a short time 20 years ago. I know how the TA looks at changes with a cost savings when route changes are proposed.
How about splitting the 83 or is it the 82 to the 50 and 5 Again, and extend the Western Route to Coney Island
Along the X90 route, the X90 bypasses the 23rd and 20th street stops that the X25 has, right next to them on the highway. I think the X90 should be re-routed to get off the highway at 23rd, do the 23rd and 20th street stops, and get back on the highway. A lot of people, including myself, get on the X25 at the un-offical but very used 18th street stop right before the highway entrance, and for a lot of us would rather take the X90, but it goes on the highway. It'll take an extra two minutes at the very most. Why not? And also, for the X25 (and the X90 if the re-routing ever effects), make 18th street an offical stop. I don't see why not, many people get on there.
The problem is, there are few easy access points to the FDR. The point of the x90 is to bring York Ave residents to Midtown and Downtown Manhattan. The x25 goes from GCT to the Wall St. area. The nearest entrance to the FDR to 23st is around 20st area. The next may or may not be in the 14st area, and there is no direct way to get there. It would take significantly more than 2 minutes.
BTW, according to the map, all 3 Manhattan x-routes take Second Ave south to 23st, and then get on the FDR at 20st.
-Hank
I live right there. There is a place to get off the FDR at 23rd, and on it at 18th. It would definetly take no more than three minutes.
Okay, here's my two cents. Articulateds can be best situated on the Lex/Third Av and First Av/Second Av lines. East Side subway service is woefully inadequate.
In Queens, the Q44 and possibly the Q17 would be my top choices. (The Q60 would be my ideal choice except for its current method of exiting the 59th Street Bridge Manhattan bound.)
In Brooklyn, the B44 wins out over the B41 since Downtown Brooklyn's streets are a bit too restrictive for artics. Ditto for the B82 between Canal Av and Ocean Av.
The Bronx is pretty much a done deal.
Staten Island? I have limited knowledge of the routes but any of the partially circumferential routes (e.g., Hylan Blvd) would be fine candidates.
What annoys me about the artics is the TA's dictum that the lines must be 100% artics. I think artics would provide better crosstown service if they were employed on more crosstown routes at peak hours rather than one or two routes all day long. This could be easily achieved with the TA's intermodal runs which are sent to a depot's various lines, as needed.
I agree concerning the TA making a route either 100% articulated or 0% articulated. At MARTA (Atlanta) and WMATA they mix articulated and 40 footers on some routes. In Washington Route 70 which is quite busy (with frequent service) operates from downtown Washington to the Silver Spring, MD Metro station via Georgia Ave with a solid fleet of NABI articulated. However, during rush hours Flxible Metro (and the occasional GM fishbowl) operate on the 70 also. Also late at night al 70 service is provided with Flxible Metros. In Westchester during peak hours again the route 20, 20X which is usually 100% articulated will have some Flxible Metro and Orion V's also.
Wayne
In San Franciso the Muni uses Artics on one of its major East West Router the 36 Geary, and during rush hours they run two type of Limited Expresses on that route. Also if any of you have been to SF and know the Geary, The Downtown Section of the Route until it gets to Van Ness is quite Narrow, as well as Hilly. So the 14 would be a good place for the artics as well as the 34 and 42
has any one seen RTS 3162 (first to use4cyl highcompression detroit diesel,REVENUE VEHICLE,N.Y.C.T.A.-A refurbished 3000 from 1983/84-GMC-/put into experimental service with new 4cyl diesel in 1993/94)A very odd sight and sound to a trained eye and ear indeed/it ran out of ULMER DEPOT at that time.A quick weight specification question for all of you gentleman out there/the GMC/TMC-RTS is truly the last of the heavyweights/ though its skin consists of composite/resin panels/underneath it has six massive steel boxes welded together/on top of massive I beam members/unlike the Grumann-Flx-model 870 which utililized an A frame with extruded aluminum walls that actually supported the floor like a bridge QUESTION what was the weight diff/HINT RTS UNLD WT 27000+ have an outstanding dayfrom*BLUEKNIGHT/N.Y.C.T.A CONDUCTOR-CALLLETTERS TWELVEohTHREE FLATBUSH-BUS OPERATOR BROTHERS/SISTERS respond! civilians also!!
I believe that 1983 GM RTS was #3160. That last I heard it appeared to headed for scrap or resale.
Wayne
Busbuffs: GMC-RTS 1983 #3160 is still in Umler Park but is out of service. Im not sure #3160 is heading to scrap yard.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
Wayne. On Sun Nov 7 16:23 Simon Miller reported that 3160 was still sitting outside at Ulmer Park. If I am not mistaken 3160 was the bus that first had the aluminum wheels and definitely sounded different from anything running at the time. I remember seeing it around Kingsboro and a driver was telling another driver that it had a lot of power, but there really wasn't any place to really open it up.
Blue Knight asked about 3162, which I don't think was the special bus. I think I've seen that very recently on the streets in service.
About a month ago there was a whole thread on 3160 and whether it could be saved from scrapping since it did have a special history.
Hey Blue Knight, if you're an operator, keep an eye out for some skinny dopey looking guy on a bike. That's me. Most of the operators are really good about watching for us suicidal folks on bikes. A word of thanks to all of you. Now if I could only get some concern from people who open driver's doors in my face.
Bus 3160 was indeed the first four-cycle (not four cylinder) DDS50 engine, and also the first with aluminum rims.
Bus 3162 is still in service with a DD6V92TA (turbo) engine. All of the 1983 RTS's and MOST of the 1981's were delivered with DD6V71 engines. Since their delivery several 1983 RTS's (and 1981's) received 6V92 engines. Off the top of my head, 3065, 3076, 3257 and 3316 have the more powerful engine.
DUH!!!!!
Trevor
ALSO IT WAS 4 CYCLE AND 4 CYLINDER!!!!!!!
Trevor
I didn't know of any 1981 RTS's being re-powered with DD6V-92TA engines. A few were delivered with the 6V-92TA (1298-1317, 2281-2300), but I'm pretty sure that's the extent of it.
Wayne
Several 1981 RTS's were re-powered with 6V-92TA engines. Off the top of my head some of them were 1209, 1495(the first one done), 1529, 1573, and 2257.
Speaking of engines, three 1982 RTS's were "de"-powered with 6V-71N engines. Two of them--1717 and 1721--did wind up with 6V-92's eventually. The third, 1743, had the weak 6V71 until it was retired last year. All three of these buses ran out of Flushing/Casey Stengel Depot.
Another 1982 oddity, 1670 and 1725 joined 2580-2585 in having V-731 trannies.
Okay what I am about to say here is my opinion based on what I've read as well as living in Brooklyn all my life so pardon me if I seem unrealistic. For most of these Bus rout that were mentioned, nothing is going anywhere. Maybe many of you are just looking at a bus mapa nd saying " this would look nice" or " this would not be cause it overlaps other routes" Well belive me some of these routes are validated and some are not.
LIMITED Bus ROUTES: Number Change -not gonna happen sorry
B1 will probably remain the same although there were talks a few year ago to restructure the route
B2 extend or combine with the 100 looks possible
B6 -see B11
B11 Extend YES, Extend the 11 at LEAST DURING RUSH HOURS to Rockaway Parkway allowing more service to go to and from east ny onthe B6 This can also validate some sort of limited for the B6 to east New york( trust me if you live anywhere along the 6 between nostrand Ave and eny it is a long wait for a extrmly over crowded bus TRUST ME)
B13 - combine with the 18 is a good idea but an extension to Starret City is my personal recomendation and more likey to happen
B14- this is mixed i like the idea of have it extended to the A line But I would bet my money it will only be pusehd to the Mail Facilty or if theB13 is extended to Starret City and combined with the B18, the B 14 will be going to Spring Creek,replcing the B13 there Stinks huh?
B15- Add more service and see B35
B17 at least look in to service to rockway pkwy during off hourwhen the East 80th 17 is not up and running. Lookinto weekend service in east 80th since command is the only trhing running back there(no B103 on weekends)
B18- see B13
B25- leave it alone
B35 EXTEND along New lots ave. to VAN SICLEN/livonia During the Weekdays or Rush Hours
B36 -sound good but traffic will be an issue and some would arge isdthere enough ridership with the B3 there already to justify it. I Know so, the ta will see otherwise
B39 Yes indead an extension is LOwer manhattan is likley
B40- YOU all out there have heard this one before COMBINE the B78 and the B40 In to a true Via Ralph ave bus while th 45 is extended to BWY JUNY. since the 45 could start up right near their depot.
B42- nothing 's changing forget it it crowded enough since that line is really part of the L ine to Begin with
B45 -see B40
B49 -limited service already
B51 extend into Broolyn would help Jump ridersip
B65 -leave alone
B71 extend to Utica
B78-see B45
Like i sais before Brooklyn need more service and this is a real as it might get i apologize if you don't agree but that how it will be.
Well those are your opinions. Everybody will have their own opinon on something. It is good that we help each other out in a NICE AND PLEASANT manner..... BTW, I will finish my section of Brooklyn Bus Routes Suggestion later on..........
B46M Limited
Mabye for the B51 it should also be extended to battery park city via barclay and vesey street, terminate at Albany St. and South End Avenue with the M9 and M10. In other words, from city hall southwards, follow the M9 route. And coming back, too.
I got a few pictures this morning at AK of some drivers getting trained in operating the WC lift on the MCIs. If one of you would like to have them for your site, email me and I'll get them to you.
-Hank
The manhole that ate 1933's tag axle on Thursday? still has not been repaired, as my x1 had to dodge it last night. The hole is one of those ConEd junction boxes, of the same type that electrocuted a horse earlier this year. The cover was skewed pretty badly, and it had a HUGE dent in it, I would guess from 1933 trying to fight it off.
In other MCI developments, 2043 was on the x17 this morning.
-Hank
where exactly is this pothole as i remember a pothole on 5th between 32 and 33 that could have broke my back several months ago. 2043 is assigned to castleton so must have been taking the place of a yukon bus.
Sorry, I mentioned it because it was one of the new batch; the correct number is 2063. I don't know exactly where it is. It's NOT a pothole, it's a ConEd junction box cover. I can't see the street signs at night from in the bus, too far away to focus while in motion.
-Hank
It is on the west side of 5th ave. bet. 39th & 40th
Maybe if one of us spots 995 in service, they could post the line that it's on so that others would have an idea where to go looking.
I just thought of a really screwy idea. I think the MTA is in the process of installing a satellite bus locator system . It would be nice to wire 995 up and be able to check on a special display for buffs what it's current location is. Although I wonder if it would be fair to the operator having some many of us aboard. Maybe they could work out a bus buff trip or two exclusively for us and we could watch with glee as 995 passes all the regular customers.
That'd be fun!
But we'd have to make sure the bus operator doesn't cover the speedometor with anything. On the M14, it was covered with the driver's schedule.
Are any of the Series 1200 still in service? Those are with the dreadful 6v71 engines. I got to ask why would GMC put such small output engines in such buses? What was the ratings? 185 horsepower I believe? How much torque did they produce? Just a couple more questions, I saw 18XX running on the X32 last night. How old are those? I ask because I haven't seen many RTS that low in a long time.
I assume it has a 6V-92TA.
Second, does any RTS running out of QV have a Cummins engine? I saw a bus running on the Q58 two weeks ago and it had a Cummins sounding engine?
What are the Orions with the Cummins engines? At only 250 hp, they must be pretty slow.
1800 series buses are 1982 gmc.we run a few out of ulmer park.
ANDY
All of the 1981 GM RTS have been withdrawn from service. A few of them did have 6V-92TA engines. They were SI express buses (1298-1317) and local buses (2281-2300) that originally went to Kingsbridge. I don't know why the NYCTA chose the 6V-71 engine. What's even more interesting is that with the 1982 buses they went to the 6V-92TA and then the went with 6V-71N again with the 1983 (3001-3325) order.
The Q58 runs operates out of Fresh Pond depot and yes they do have 10 1996 Nova RTS with the Cummins M11 - they are 9140 - 9149.
Wayne
there is only one ealry rts runnig..#1700 from 126th st depot
Simon: GMC-RTS #1700 is running from Hudson Depot not 126st Depot & there is couple 1700s & 1800s running in Brooklyn.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
That's true but those (1660-1858, 2580-2704) are 1982 RTS. The 1981's are 1201-1658 NYCTA and 2201-2579 MABSTOA.
Wayne
There are 4 1982 local buses running in SI: 1706, 1713, 1722, 1724
Manhattan has 1700(HUD), 2611(126) and 1826(WS)
The 1800 on the X32 had to have been 1852 out of QV
Actually the SI RTSs are no longer, PEACE OUT BYE BYE! Just the 1990-91 RTSs are in SI!
Trevor
QV and Jamaica still have 1700s and 1800s still running around.
QV: 1740-1742, 1745, 1757, 1767, 1773, 1819, 1852
JAM: 1746-1747, 1752, 1755, 1844
Q66#384Gary
I believe there is some split service on the Q58 between CS and FP....
B46M Limited
CS has a few school specials that operate as far as Horace Harding Expressway from Main St.
There is no split service on the Q58. One or two school tripper Q58 buses come out of CS that serve John Bownwe High School and terminate at Junction Blvd., from there the buses dead head back to CS Depot.
Since its conversion from trolley to bus in 1949, the Q58 (formerly
B58) operated from Maspeth, East New York, and Crosstown until it
was moved to Fresh Pond on July 27, 1960, the same day trolleybus
service ended.
A lot of 1700 and 1800 series buses operate out of QV and Jamaica.
Just to name a few: 1740-1742, 1745-1747, 1751-1752, 1755, 1757, 1767, 1773, 1819, 1844, 1852
MM2000
Don't forget GMC-RTS #1826 at West Side Depot
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
HOW ARE YOU TODAY SIR/PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT BLUEKNIGHT 12OH3 FLAT UPON COMPLETION OF PM TOUR/DEPT OF SUB, WENT TOPSIDE AND SAW 1983 RTS NO.3003 WITH ORIGINAL FRESH POND DEPOT MARKING NOW IN REVENUE SERVICE WITH JACKIE GLEASON DEPOT/ON B75/B69/ I AM SURE THAT YOU WERE ALREADY AWARE OF THAT/ BUT I WANTED TO GET ON THE HORN AND LET IT BE KNOWN JUST IN CASE/THANKS AGAIN FOR INFO RE 1983RTS3160 AT ULMER/STILL HIGHLY UPSET THAT THIS BEAUTY AWAITS THE INEVITABLE FATE OF ALL OLD SOLDIERS.CURRENTLY SEARCHING FOR PICTURE AND INFO ON RTX LOW FLOOR 3 AXLE/LYCOMING GAS TURBINE/NYLON SAFETY GAS TANK/THE ORIGINAL RTSCIR1975/THE REASON RTS IS CALLED RTS2,BECAUSE RTX HAD THREE AXLES/RTS AS WE KNOW HAS TWO.TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND HAVE AN OUTSTANDING DAY/BLUEKNIGHT CR NYCTA TWELVE OH THREE FLAT/COPYTHAT?
I don't want to say this, but do not use all caps when writing your posts. PLEASE! Thank you
Sorry about using all caps onlast message fellows,
OL'BLUEKNIGHT is a novice with computer protocol/be
advised /wont happen again.BLUEKNIGHT/CR/NYCTA/12-
OH-3 FLAT
While riding CNG 491 on the Q66 today, I saw Suburban QS CNG 556 with an ad in the front?! (similar to the MTA Buses). Anybody knows about this?
Q66#384G
ps 510 is back in service- was on the QM1 last night.
Good eyes, Gary. We did put a "headlight" ad on two of our CNG Orions but that was only for a photo-shoot for the advertiser. The ads have been taken down. We don't use the headlight ads because we think it makes it too confusing for our customers who may be looking for the "Queens Surface" bus.
Peter Greenberg
Queens Surface Corp.
Saw 2 weird sites today on Queens Blvd:
1. 4510 Morst Diesel Bus from Florida.
2. Fishbowl that looked like it was an ex-Command but was Chartered and it didn't have gold and green colors on it. Just dark black/blue on top and silver on bottom.
3309 from FP was o.s on Woodhaven Blvd.
Peace Out!!!
Q66#384G
PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT I SAW 1983RTSNO.3003 OUT OF FRESH POND NOW OUT OF JACKIE GLEASON DEPOT IN REVENUE SERVICE ON B69/B75 ROUTES/STILL HAS ORIGINAL M SYMBOL ON LEFT SIDE IN ADDITION TO NEW TYPE MTA MARKINGS.HAVE AN OUTSTANDING DAY/BLUEKNIGHT CR NYCTA TWELVE OH THREE FLAT
The truth must come out: Frank Rizzo was aka as MCIMAN2000.
He will be no more. A new alias will be made along w/MM2000.
This name will be Q66#384Gary. 384 is a good bus that operates out of QS. I like it cause the rear sign is stuck on Q66. Look for these 2 names here on BT.
MM2000/Q66#384G
Just use ONE name. Why would you need 2? Granted, I use two, but I can't leave a cookie on the shared computer at work. Why be phony?
-Hank
I always have 2 names. I like it that way better. I have 2 email addresses: @AOL and @yahoo.
Q66#384G
So does this mean you're now going to have arguments with yourself, ala 'heypaul'?
-Hank
He's coming out of the closet. Maybe he was ashamed to be MM2000 cause on the former website KayBees Page I noticed MM2000 didnt take very good pictures. However I did enjoy the pictures from KayBee and their new website now on Transit Talk. Either that or he uses a second name as a hidden identity to fight with people on bus talk without being exposed.
I'm glad that Gary is now Gary. All these name changes are getting confusing ! I'm going to stay Mr (small) t.
B64: See B1
B68: Combine with B69. Every third or fourth bus go to Downtown Bklyn.
B69: See B68
B71: Extend to Utica Ave.
B100: See B2
Q24: Extend to Dekalb and Malcom X for direct transfer to B38 and B46.
B46M Limited
The B 69 at one time was the Combo of McDonald B-50 and Vanderbilt B-69 back in the Trolley Days, The B68 was the Coney Island Ave-Smith Street Line at the same time, or visa versa, I have my Brooklyn Trolley Book in another room where my Mother In Law is sleeping, but back then there was thru Trolley From Coney Island to Downtown Bklyn via C.I. Ave, Smith st, McDonald and Vanderbilt Aves
I just thought of a couple more......
B49: Run in both directions along Bedford Ave.
B51: Extend into Red Hook/Cobble Hill Area via Columbia St. Both of the terminus of the B51 is in areas that have little residence.......
Actually the 49 did at one time run down bedford ave, well, at least the section over flatbush going toward Midwood h.s and Brooklyn College. If you take either the B8, 41, or 49 to about Bedford and Foster Aves., walk down the block about 3 or four houses ther was or still is an old metal bus map that is nailed to a pole with the old b49 route towars Manhattan beach. From what I heard (mearly what I heard )the people in the nieghborhord really did not care too much about the line and the street is kind of narrow at some points so it was put onto Ocean Ave. As for the other parts of bedford it maysound like a good idea up until it hit fulton street with the 44 and then the 61 takes over bedford after the 44.As for the 51, totally absolutly agree with you maybe extend it to somewhere around Clinton/Washignton /Fulton/Atlanticac Aves Area Kind of like iin the area where the old B19 route used to run. same on Manhattan
What I was saying about the B49 is that maybe it should run in both directions along Bedford Ave. I did not mean for it to run the whole length of Bedford Ave...........
B46M Limited
What I really meant to say is that the B49 should run in both directions along its portion of Bedford Ave. I know that three or four buses run along Bedford Ave......
B46M Limited
Maybe the 49 Should run its whole route on Ocean Ave between Man Beach and Prospect Park and run another bus on Bedford and Rogers down to the College.
I think a message I posted here got lost in the web. How about instead of the B51 terminating at City Hall, extending it to Battery Park City along the M9 route?
The idea of the B2 and the B100 is an idea that gets mixed opinions. It sounds good on paper but it all depend who will run the route? the ta or command? or both? If the command gets it the bus will not run all times and will quit earlier than the 2 did since the 2 discontinued its late night service( Bring it Back please)but there will at least be a guarantee that the buses will make the effort run close to thier schedules also i v's noticed that many people who ridse the Command lines tend to be personal and friendly with thier drivers. I the ta ran it better hours but probably less or reduced service which will turn off many riders and will force the ta in to a corner to return the service and that is a waste of time to begin with. I would in this case only prefer that Command have this route if it is extended.
The idea of the B2 and the B100 is an idea that gets mixed opinions. It sounds good on paper but it all depend who will run the route? the ta or command? or both? If the command gets it the bus will not run all times and will quit earlier than the 2 did since the 2 discontinued its late night service( Bring it Back please)but there will at least be a guarantee that the buses will make the effort run close to thier schedules also I've noticed that many people who ridse the Command lines tend to be personal and friendly with thier drivers. I the ta ran it better hours but probably less or reduced service which will turn off many riders and will force the ta in to a corner to return the service and that is a waste of time to begin with. I would in this case only prefer that Command have this route if it is extended.
Wewere talking if all franchises were taken over by the City. The 2 would still better off if combined with the Q35.The 100 would probably combined with another route, for not I have no idea
While I was waiting for the M101 or 102 Limited (I got the 102) at 14th & 3rd I saw an old metal sign hanging on a pole for the #101, the sign was labelled with the full name of MaBSTOA. The route was the same as now.
The M102 have limited service?
B46M Limited
Yes, so does the 101, but NOT the 103.
I know the M101 have as well as the M98 but I did not know the M102 have it also. Maybe because it is not on the latest bus map that I own.........
B46M Limited
I got the pictures I took today downloaded, and uploaded. They're available
I got the pictures I took today downloaded, and uploaded. They're available here, along with several others. PLEASE don't add them to your web pages without asking me, via email.
-Hank
Nice work
Steve
Thanks! Honestly, I'm a little disappointed with how those pics of the Command Orion came out. You can't even tell it has the new orange LED sign. But I'm told it's overall not bad for a digital camera.
-Hank
-All Digital, All the Time!
The space to where the lift operates, that's where the WC passenger will sit? Is there a fold up seat there or no seat?
There are fold up seats on both sides of the bus. Plus the seats are on a track so they can be moved forward and backward in addition to being folded up.
All of the seats, or just those?
I think two or three rows near the hatch that opens on the side of the bus. If you have a chance to ride the bus you will notice the wheel chair seats do not have seperate cushions ; it is one cushion for two seats. The rest of the bus has seperate cushions at all seats. For anyone who hasnt been on one of these buses all the seats are forward facing.
The two rows in front of the WC position roll forward, and the seats fold. The row at the WC position folds. The second WC position (on the left side) has one row that folds and rolls, and one row that folds.
-Hank
I'm sorry for starting this up again after long enough, but I rode the MCI today and I'm wondering how they would use the seat on the left side if the right side is occupied? How would they fit the second person?
And the yellow strip at the wheelchair area is in case you can't reach the STOP button, right?
THey would move the person over to the left side. Oddly, there is no touch tape on the left side, and it is there because the ceiling in that area requires anyone to stand up and hit the button.
-Hank
Are you for real!
Get over yourself, many would be honored if someone use someone pics! MAN PLEASE!
Trevor
That reminds me; did the New York Times give you permission to post that scan of their Metro section?
-Hank
Actually, YES THEY DID!!!!
Trevor
Are you for real!
Plus TransiTALK has had them before you by Kevin Barsky!
Trevor
I don't care if someone else had them first. I'm just saying I would like to be ASKED before someone decides to use my pics somewhere. I don't want to flip to some paid webpage one day, and see pics I took generating revenue for someone who is not me. I deserve, as the person who created the 'artwork', a portion of the proceeds. It's also common courtesy. I sure as hell won't use other peoples pictures on my site without asking them. Hell, I even emailed NS for permission to use that locomotive that's dead center. Although I have sold only 1 picture so far in my life, I like to 'think of the possibilities'
Anyone who DOESN'T ask permission before using some elses work on their site deserves to be sued (which they eventually will be)
Ask Jason DeCesare, if he ever resurfaces. His pics, which were posted on this site, were taken by Septa, and used on theirs.
-Hank
Here are the Hudson routes and the odds (mine) of seeing 995 on them.
M6 28 to 1.
M8 100 to 1. High seniority line. Veteran operators shun 995.
M9 40 to 1. Real longshot.
M11 10 to 1. One or two operators love 995 but they have early morning pull-outs and 995 is frequently "buried" in the back of the depot.
M14 2 to 1. 28 run grabs 995 with preferential frequency. Also, M14 has the most runs which lowers the odds considerably.
M21 100 to 1. Same reason as the M8, plus the odds are that the Relief won't want her. (M8 operators usually keep their buses for the day.)
M22 50 to 1. Narrow streets make operators uncomfortable with 995 (not an opinion shared with me).
M23 10 to 1. If it's not on the M14, this is a pretty good bet.
Q32 5 to 1. Midday runs (those that report after 12) favor 995 because it's so quick and maneuverable. When 995 is released from "Hold," it usually winds up here. (995 is frequently on "Hold" because drivers constantly and mistakenly write her up for long brakes.) And, of course, I'm on the 32 and constantly on the prowl for my favorite bus.
Some drivers on the M9 (unfortunatley including mine) don't like 995. My driver didn't give much of a reason, but I'm assuming for much of the same reason as the M22. And having early-morning pull-outs makes it MORE likely to get the bus you want. Early morning equals lots of buses available, an early morning (if it's early enough) equals non-assigned buses. That's how my M9 always gets '98 or '99 Novas.
Are drivers ever assigned to the 995?
Occasionally, drivers that do not want to drive 995 are assigned the bus when there are no other buses available.
On Roosevelt Avenue, there are two places that still feature the old "15" bus stop signs (with the route map). At the southeast corner of 72 Street and at the 80 Street eastbound bus stop.
At the 10 Avenue eastbound bus stop, there is still a sign for the "15."
There are other old signs scattered around but these are the only pre-Mabstoa signs I know.
Anybody want a pic?
Staten Island has a lot of old telephone pole signs, which are just a piece of yellow-painted rubber, with 'Bus Stop' printed on it in black. There are also some badly damaged express service signs from the mid 70s, and at the Sand Lane turnaround, an 'R2' sign.
-Hank
There is one on 25th Ave. and 86th Street in the bus stop were the B3 makes the left into. I think it is the old B1 that ran fron Harway Ave. to Shore road. There is also one on Empire Blvd. and Ocean Ave on the conrer were the B4 makes the right onto Ocean Ave. I think it is the 34 the ran from Kpapp St ot KCC in Manhatton Beach.
the street you describe sounds like emmons ave. the b21 ran there until nov12,1978. in the late 60s you could catch a mack 6000 to take you to kingsborough cc.
Did you read my message about the old 101 sign?
Frequently, dispatchers on routes that offer (or have offered) limited service, attempt to put buses back into their scheduled place by making them limited. A pleasant surprise for many passengers, an unpleasant side effect is that some people will wait for the "next" limited when the surprise arrives.
On Saturday the 6th I walked from the Beach 116th Street terminal all the way to the loop at Beach 169th Street where the Gil Hodges Bridge touches land on the peninsula. I was HOPING to get the Q22 or 35 back to Beach 116th. Well, here's what happened-
In the many times I've ridden the Q35 from Brooklyn to Rockaway, it's always ducked off the bridge and gone into the loop before continuing to 116th. In this instance, after two 35s bound for Brooklyn passed through and stopped in the loop, one 35 bound for Rockaway came over the bridge and right through the underpass heading through Riis Park without going into the loop. I asked the driver of the next Brooklyn-bound 35 if Rockaway-bound busses stop in the loop. The answer was no.
Now, why would a bus make a stop served by a large, remote area (Fort Tilden, Breezy Point) only in ONE direction but not the other? It seems you can go from Beach 169th Street to Brooklyn, but not the reverse. The next time the Rockaway-bound Q35 would stop is all the way at the east end of the park at Beach 149th. You would have to change to a Q22 back in the direction you just came in to get to a point the Q35 you were on just passed.
I posed these questions to Green Bus Lines. No one could answer these questions, or even agree on whether the bus is supposed to stop there or not. They couldn't tell me why, in the whole hour this episode took, no Q22 bound for Far Rockaway came either.
A little consistency would be nice.
This sounds like a normal thing for green lines.
There is a stop,,when the Bus comes off the Bridge,,,after the road that leads to the Breezy Pt or Rockaway Pt Area,,,before it ducks under that litte bridge WB to Riis Park
I took this bus for many years,from 1964 ,,I lived at 8400 Shore Frt and on Beach 134 ,,and also used the Rockaway Pk Express and the Q53,,and the old 21A
Steve
Which Depot first delivered GMC-RTS #1201-1297, #1318-#1658, #2201-#2579 & Express buses #1298-#1317 in 1981. I remember seeing #1500s & #1600s at 126 Street Depot.
Fresh Pond's originals were 1257-1266. 1261 wasn't in service until 1400/1500's arrived.The very first RTS I saw to run on the B53/Q54 line was 1264.
Now this group is a bit tough especially those at NYCTA. I do remember that ENY had the first buses (1201-...). During the late 70's and early 80's ENY always got the first buses from each order. ENY also had some of the low 1300 (after 1317). The 1400 were pretty much n Bklyn. Flatbush had the high 1300 and low 1400. 1500 were in Queen with the first of them at Jamaica, Queen Village and Flushing. 126th Street had the high 1500 up to about 1604. Queens Village also had the last of the 1600's. At MABSTOA the first of the 2200 were at Hudson, 54th Street, 132 Street, 146th Street and Amsterdam up to 2252
2253-2262 Kingsbridge
2263-2280 Coliseum
2281-2300 Kingsbridge (6V-92TA engines)
2300's were at Hudson, 54th Street, 132nd Street and 146th Street had the last 2300 and first few 2400. Amsterdam had 2400 up to 2442.
2443-2528 Kingsbridge
2529-2579 Coliseum
Most of the 1981 RTS were PA units: They were PA1318-PA1658 and PA2301-PA2579
At this time Crosstown (XT), Fifth Ave (FI), West Farms (WF) and 100 Street (OHS) did not have any new buses (RTS or 1980 Grumman 870). The 1977 Flxibles (9000-9309) were transferred to those depots that did not get new buses.
Sorry - I was unable to be more detailed.
Wayne
What was a PA bus?
These buses were purchased by the Port Authority of NY/NJ and leased to the agency. There have been PA buses at NYCTA/MABSTOA, NJ Transit and NJDOT Companies and Westchester County Bee-Line.
These are buses that had a "PA" as part of the fleet number example: NYCTA's PA4306 was a 1986 GMC RTS-06 Series.
In addition to the PA next to the fleet number - they also had decals that read "Purchased by Port Authority of New York & New Jersey Leased to The Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority". In the 1980's there were lot's of PA buses in the NYC Metro area. If any are left they are hard to find because most PA decals have been removed and/or the buses are no longer in service.
NYCTA/OA PA buses
PA1-175 - 1980 Grumman Flxible 870
PA1318-PA1658, PA2301-PA2579 - 1981 GMC RTS II-04
PA1659-PA1858, PA2580-PA2704 - 1982 GMC RTS II-04
PA3096-PA3325 - 1983 GMC RTS II-04
PA4300-PA4333???
NJ Transit has many Flxible Metros that are PA units and the MCI MC-9A & B (Jersey Cruisers) were PA units.
At Bee-Line some of the MAN Articulated (PA600-PA609 I think) and MCI 102A2's were PA units.
Wayne
Also libus had flxs that were pa. Carey at jfk had MC 9s that were pa also.
ulmer park had 1981 rts buses 1239-1256 and pa1430-1480. pa 1380-1429 went to fltbush depot. yukon and castleton had pa1608-1658. also 1280-1297 were yukon hard seaters while 1298-1317 were so called suburbans.
PA1481-1516 went to Fresh Pond.
Fresh Pond also had 1430-1480.
These were recieved later on to replace the Grummans that were removed from service.Also had 1560-1562,1564-1571 from 126 Street I believe. Never saw 1561.
Correction,Sorry, never saw 1563.
I remember in Flushing/Stengel while I was a wee little tyke:
** few 1200's like 1204-1205, 1277
**1510-1559 (local)
**1705-1733(local)
**1734-1749(exp)
**a stray 1600 or two (1606,1607,1667)
**a 2200 or two (2279)
**a couple of 2500s (2573,2583) I remember either run 1 or 2 on the 44VP(now 74) had 2583 everyday, the other of these two runs had 1706 everyday.
**later in life 3900-3984
** then i remember a whole hodge podge of numbers 1400s , 2300s, high 1500s, 2400s prior to the 1995 Orions arriving.
and then all the RTSs were gone.
I did see 1382 and 83 for some time also. Those were the only 1300s I remenber seeing there. Around 1994 or 95, Fresh Pond had 2409 and 2416.One of them ran with the Walnut depot logo on the driver side. I remember seeing a low 1200 at FP in the same time period.
Which Depot get 1983 RTS #3001-3325?? I know #3001-#3020 at 126 Street Depot. Also done any one have a list of bus roster in 1997?
Yes,1382 and 1383 were at FP as well as 1384. FP also recieved from Flushing 1267-1284.As far as low 1200's, I saw 1202, 1235, 1248 at one point. The 2000's they had 2220,2222,2224,2225,2257,2287-2290,2351,2561,2564,2676,2678. Was 2221 or 2223 ever at FP?
Those 2200s that you mention must've been there in the 80s some time.I don't remember seeing them there.1202 was the one I was thinking of.I do remember seeing 2409 and 2416 on the Q58 a few times.
Yes, I forgot to mention those MSBA Flxible Metros and those Carey MC-9's are a distant memory also now. Has anyone seen any of those MC-9's lately. The last time I saw one it was pretty battered.
Wayne
Old 100st Depot didn't get new RTS buses until 1983 when they got #3150 to #3170 & #3199 to #3250. Also at the same time they have 1977 Flxible from high #9100s to low #9200s & some of #9300s.
100 St also had the high 9200 that came from 132 street and Kingsbridge. The 9300's came from Amsterdam.
Wayne
I remember seeing them on the B-67 pretty early, before Flatbush even got them, and that is a 5th Av route.
From what I can recall the Queens assignment was as follows:
1267-1272,1515-1534 Flushing
1273-1275,1535-1544 Jamaica
1276-1282,1545-1559,1635-1658 Queens Village
1515 and 1516 were originally assigned to Fresh Pond. The rest seems correct. 1283 and 1284 that were transferred to FP years later I believe came from 126St.
Can remember being in the yard at Flushing and standing in #1206 when it was brand new.
On the Q18, I've seen 2821 and 2828 with new paintjobs.
Q66#384G
I heard recently that NYCT plans to add a sixth Brooklyn Bus Depot around 2000 or 2001. If this is true, where will this new depot be located at in Brooklyn or is Crosstown going to reopen as a depot & if that is true, when will Crosstown reopen in what year & how many buses would be assigned to Crosstown.
Thanks,
Jerry
Go back a couple of posts. You will fid all the info you need about this subject/topic...........
B46M Limited
As a young Philadelphia boy in the 1950's, I remembered 2 PTC bus
lines which ran through Fairmount Park.
Bus route 85, which began on September 9, 1946, replaced the old
Fairmount Park trolley and operated from 48-Parkside to 33-Dauphin
via the old City Line Avenue bridge. On August 3, 1952, it was
rerouted via Ford Road and the Strawberry Mansion bridge. In May,
1993, Route 85 was discontinued and service to Wynnefield was
replaced by an extension of bus route 40-Lombard and South.
Bus route XB, which began on November 4, 1951, started new, running
from Broad and Spruce Streets to the Presidential Apartments, City
Line Avenue and Neill Drive, via Belmont Avenue. This route was
discontinued in 1960 and replaced by an extension of bus route 38,
a former subway-surface car line.
Check out the New Flyer D45S "Viking" that i found in www.newflyer.com If MTA like this "Viking"? are they going to buy more D45S "Viking"?
supposedly they ar ordering 3 of them..dont know what they look like, they are not here yet
Yes 3 of them are coming here, 996-997-and 998! Due here within the next week or so!
AND I DO KNOW WHAT OURS WILL LOOK LIKE! I ALREADY SEEN ONE!!
Trevor
Is it like the picture or do we have to wait and see?????
B46M Limited
Today, due to the water main breaks on Wisconsin Avenue at Dorset and Willard Avenues, all service was crazy. This was on top of the Saturday schedule for Veterans Day. The 42 couldn't get on northbound Wisconsin Avenue (don't know the detour), the 23 was over 30 minutes late (plus more, I never saw it), a southbound 42 became a 29 to Glen Echo, there were 30-40 people waiting at the E2, E4 stop, and the L8 to Aspen Hill was jammed to its capacity. WHEN THIS HAPPENS AND THERE IS A SATURDAY SCHEDULE, WHY DON'T THEY GET EXTRA DRIVERS AND BUSES OUT AND PUT IN MORE SERVICE??? I got off the T2 at its second stop it was so slow and walked.
I want to know why MCI Buses is running in Staten Island Depot?? Why don't MCI Buses running in Manhattan or Brooklyn or Queen Depot? How come Bronx Depot didn't get express line???? I would love to see MCI Buses running in New 100st, Manhattanville, Gun Hill, & Kingsbridge Depot. Are there any plan to build more MCI after they delivered all the MCI buses from #2040-#2139.
My opinion is that SI express routes are the logical routes to operate the MCI's. I guess an argument could be made for Brooklyn and Queens express routes. The NYCTA does not have any express routes Between The Bronx and Manhattan. All Bronx-Manhattan express service is provided by Liberty Lines and New York Bus Service. In the late 70's and 80's there was one NYCTA express route between The Bronx and Manhattan. It was the X61 (it operated out of Kingsbridge) and it had very limited service between 262nd Street-Broadway and Wall Street. It never did have very high patronage, probably because it duplicated Liberty Lines' BXM3 route in the Bronx. I also believe the RTS on the Manhattan express routes are adequate for the job.
Wayne
You folks might be interested to know that the idea of Express bus service didn't originate at the TA !
In 1964 Green Bus Lines started one, Queens Transit (now Queens Surface) followed shortly, THEN in 1971 the TA me-tooed the idea in Queens and in 1972 started them in Brooklyn. It is also interesting that the "privates" run these Express buses to areas served locally by the TA in Queens, Brooklyn & Bronx.
To be perfectly honest Green didn't invent the idea in '64 as "Limited Stop"/express bus service began much earlier, e.g. Fifth Ave Coach from Queens.
Mr t__:^)
Thanks for the info. Thurston. RE:NYCTA - I've always heard the TA's first express route was between Staten Island and downtown Brooklyn. The route desingation was the R-8X (which later became the X8). I belive this route operated til at least the mid/late 1980's.
I always wondered why they call them expresses. To me express implies that there's local service along the same route like the subway or a limted stop route.
Wayne
The MTA does plan to purchase MCI or MCI-type coach buses for the express routes in all boroughs. It's in the 2000-2004 capital plan at-
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/mta/cap2000-2004-nyct.htm#pp
Because outside of the SI runs, there are very few routes thatrequire 2+ hours on the bus.
-Hank
First of alll Statan Island nedded higher compasity Express busses beccause of high ridership and storage problems that's way the MCI's were ordered. They carry 57 people vs 49 witch both Orions and RTS's carry. I think down the road you will see them in brooklyn for the same reason. On the other hand Queens and Manhattan most likely will never get because ridership is not high enouph to warrent them.
As for the privates I could see Liberty and New York Bus getting them
since they are not getting new orions like Command, Green, Triboro , Jamaica, and Queens serface.
I say Manhattan needa them more than Brooklyn. On routes like the X27, 28, and 29, people usually get a seat. On the X90, I've seen it get pretty crowded.
The new express Orions on the Command routes SUCK! LONG LIVE THE MCIS!!!!!!
They may suck but not more than Command's TMC CNG RTS. BTW they did a nice job repainting 441! I agree long live the Classics.
Peace,
Kevin
The RTSs are better, their seating pattern is more agreeable.
I agree with you. I don't really care for the Orions too much. They're made too cheap. Just look at the 1993 models. But I also like the MCI CLASSICS. They're a great group of buses. Saw QS 415 on ther QM1 this morning with a broken destination sign. This is why I think they're just too cheap. Most of the signs on the Orions are broken. I rode 5515 on the Q60 this morning and I guess they were trying to fix the sign this weekend cause the side destination cover fell. The sign is still broken and has been for a while now.
MM2000
From a drivers perspective the Orions are a better bus.
How?
Have you ever been on a 1993 TMC CNG RTS?
Note i am referring to the 1993 TMC CNG RTS from Command only.
1) They are very slow
2) They have poor suspensions
3) They tilt too much on turns
4) They break down often (NOT RELIABLE)
5) They always give off a burning odor
Do you remember when Command first got these buses? Well if you dont they sat in the garage for many months until Command figured out how to fix them. They would stall out whenever the bus came to a stop. Also note Command paid a lot of money to get these buses towed back to Command whenever they broke down cause Command doesnt own a tow truck. Bottom line: They are unreliable.
You may feel these are great buses ; you are entitled to your own opinion.
I didn't know they had so many mechanical problems, I was only reffering to the passenger amenities.
I agree with you ; the TMC CNG RTS are more passenger friendly.
Just in case you see a couple of NY Apple Tour dbl deckers in our yard their pressents doesn't mean we're branching out.
In fact Georgetown Univ. got a contract from the city to explore ways to make diesel buses polute less.
Mr t__:^)
So I take it they are playing with CNG, huh?
-Hank
No I think they're playing with the Bitish Leland diesel engine. They are just using a piece of our yard ... as does NYPD.
Mr t__:^)
Hi; how does one obtain a listing of bus Dest. Codes as entered into the farebox? Who is the contact at Transit? Thanks For your help.
I know of a couple of guys that have something to do with maintaining the "table", but they don't talk to the general public. They work in one of those "back offices" at 130 Livingston Plaza. In fact "officially" I have to deal through NYC-DOT.
The many of the numbers resemble the route numbers as the new buses have the ability to sign on once to light the sign & boot the farebox. Example the Q24 is 24x (241 thru 249). Sometimes the number isn't the same, i.e. Q65A is an off the wall number. Why would you need to know this?
Mr t__:^)
Do you know if they modified the priviliges on the M14 to allow for transferring between the branches with Pay/per ride, as well as w/Unlimited?
No that kind of detail, i.e. system table updates, they don't publish.
It is very possible that a change was made. I suggest you call the Customer Service office and push them for an answer, 718-330-3322 or write 370 Jay Street.
It's the kind of question that somebody in the TA should be able to answer. If it was a Q25 vs. Q110 or Q44 (Jamaica Bus vs. TA) we would give you an answer !
You may recall that this tail of the dog asked the TA & LI Bus to allow free Transfers from N4 to Q25/Q65.
Mr t__:^)
If you need the Destination Readings..I can help you,,
Steve
BusTalkers --
Just thought I'd let you know that I spotted an articulated (#1010) late this morning on the M79. I had heard that they were coming, but this is the first one I've seen. Sorry I don't know more about buses to let you know more about the particulars of this bus.
Chuck
1045, with a Westside sticker, is testing on 42st as we speak. It's signed up as a 'Training Bus', and is carring just 2 people.
-Hank
Speaking of, Wednwsday night I was on the M42, and there was a letter that wasn't very nice about the Artics. Some Highlights: (are my thoughts)
Titled: Unsafe Bus!
They are reducing service 30%
(are they?)
They will have longer boarding times because there will be more people getting on fewer buses.
(ok, I can understand that, if the part about fewer buses is true)
Stops will be eliminated.
(yes.)
Remaining stops will be extended to accomodate the largest bus in the fleet, and we will lose valuble parking space!
(uhm, yes, and yes)
"These ungainly giants will have an adverse effect on already heavily congested streets."
(ungainly? A Ford Excursion is ungainly)
The weight is concentrated at the rear, which results in a tendency to fishtail in wet, icy and snowy conditions.
(Well, don't ALL city buses concentrate the weight in the rear? They've been running for 2 years in the Bronx (same bus) and even longer in Westchester County (different model), and I don't recall hearing anything about these buses doing anything that they shouldn't do. This type of bus also runs in Seattle, the rainiest place in the US. The only accident I know of with an artic there involves a guy shooting the driver, who then drove the bus off a bridge. Only 1 person was killed (I believe the driver), which seems to indicate the bus is safe, unless driven by someone who has been shot.)
(and the kicker statement:)
"Do you want your loved ones traveling in a vehicle with that potential for disaster?"
(gotta love it. sounds like a FOX promo!)
-Hank
From the notices I've seen while riding the M79, I haven't seen any indication that they are reducing service intervals.
What I have seen over the past three years is that the advent of free Metrocard bus-subway transfers has made for a big change in many peoples commuting patterns. Many east-siders now avoid the crowded Lexington Ave. line by taking the 79 or 86 across and catching a 6th or 8th Ave. train along CPW. In addition, many from uptown and the bronx are getting off stations along CPW and commuting to jobs on the east side by bus.
This has created an explosion in the ridership on these lines. I'd love to see the ridership #'s. My understanding for putting the artics on the 79 and 86 was to carry more people with the same number of runs.
Chuck
I saw this bus too on my way home, a lot of people were on it, and they all had seats too!! The bus I was on was JAM packed and if we were on an artic at that time, everybody would shut up about getting seats and we would be happy. I haven't seen any on the M86 testing. Hmmmmm...Till Next Time...
Peace Out
-Clayton
Person who I stay with in NY saw an artic too. He didn't get me a unit number or anything, just said that because of its size, it was blocking the crosswalk at Lex (westobund bus).
I'm assuming the Park Avenue stop has been eliminated?
Yes -- the Park Ave. stops have been eliminated on the M79 (and I believe also the M86). Also the stops at Madison and Lexington have been moved to the side of the street closer to Park.
Chuck
Soon of later you will spot New Flyer Articlated on M42, M79, M86, maybe M96, M102 in couple months.
M79 will become all articulated by Winter of this year, M86 will become all artic by Spring of 2000. Where the extras will go I have no idea...
Peace Out
-Clayton
My father said there is about 4 or 5 Artics buses already in West Side Depot & he going to practice driving Artics for two hours next tuesday or after Thankgiving. Each routes will get one artics so the driver can practice driving artics. The line will be M42, M79, M86, M102 & maybe M96 im not sure about that.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
I guess I'll have to start using 3rd Avenue instead of Lex. I used Lex so I would have more time to catch a westbound bus if it was between 2nd and 3rd, but now, from the apartment where I stay (which is at the corner of 79th and 3rd), I have to cross 79th AND Lex to get the bus to Riverside Drive. If I remember correctly, the Madison Avenue stop on the M79 is already on the Park Avenue side of Madison. Am I correct in saying this???
You are very correct! I go to school rite near there and I can't wait to see the artics pouring in on the M79!!!
Peace Out
-Clayton
I can't wait either, but I don't like the idea of having to get to the NW corner of 79th and Lex to get the M79. I guess you have to take the bad (moving the bus stop) in with the good (getting artics on the route right in front of where u stay in NYC).
Technically, they didn't need to move the stops anywhere, they could have just put "No Parking Signs" at the end of the bus stop pointing to the curb to create more room. I might be wrong but I might be right. Later
Peace Out
-Clayton
The Westbound M79 stop was already on the Park Avenue side of Madison. The Eastbound stop was on the Fifth Avenue side, but they moved it to the Park Ave side about a month ago.
Chuck
Today I spotted a Triboro MCI classic #78? in Command's new Facility. Does anyone know if Command is going to be using this bus? BTW many of the ex Queens Surface RTS that were parked in Command Storage look like they are on their way to RTS heaven. They have been removed from the storage lot and are now parked in the street in front of Varsity's Garage.
Peace,
KayBee
I hope you saw it through the fence. I would hate to have to get security on you.
TCC #788 will become CBC #499. It is a replacement to CBC #431 that was rendered unrepairable due to an accident.
I saw it through the fence. I also have a few friends that drive for Command. Why would you want to get security on me anyway?
Any reviews from anyone ,here??
I just got a flyer in the mail
Steve
The book is new but the manuscript is not. I assisted Mr. McKane with it about five or six years ago. Since then, many specification tables were dropped, as well as the appendices.
Most of the photos are GM publicity photos, and most of the text deals with the details of buses at either Chicago or San Francisco Municipal Railway, with only an extremely light mention of NYCTA.
Why?
Mr. McKane is originally from Chicago-land and worked for a number of years for SF Muni.
I would like to have seen more details as to the differences among the various models -- the only "difference" mentioned about the T6H5309A and T6H5310A buses in the NYC area is that..."the differences were electrical". I would like to have learned some specifics about that situation myself.
I do have complete production lists of all the GM fishbowls, and originally Mr. McKane wanted to include them as an appendix to the book. However, he was having difficulty (five years' worth) in trying to get a publisher to print the work.
A while ago in Washington I saw a "bus" that is supposedly compatible with running on rubber tires and as a boat in water. Does anyone know anything about this, and whether these vehicles could be used as legetimate transit vehicles.
In the early 60's BMW (I think) build a vehicle known as the Amphicar. It had a sealed bottom and had two propellers where tailpipes go. I saw this car on display at Gast's Classic Car Museum in the Amish Country in Pa in 1986. Obviously thie technology is there, but is it commercially viable????
There was a small fleet of the "Amphicar" at the 1964-1965 New York World's Fair, at the south end adjacent to the lake. For a buck, visitors would be taken for a ride/cruise in one of them out in the lake.
You never know -- something like that might go over for express ferry service to Manhattan. You wouldn't need to transfer to a feryy.
Yep, they're 'Ducks'
-Hank
Has any bus been created that can run OPO but still board both at street level and onto a platform that is the same height as the doors of the bus?
New Flyer D40LF's!!! The floor is same height as the curb.
TransiTALK Webmasters, Trevor Logan, Dashawn Pretlow, and Kevin Barsky, will be attending a feild trip to Washington DC on the 26th new pictures to add to transitalk!
So be on the look out in December for new WMATA pictures!
For existing TransiTALK DC pictures go to:
http://geocities.com/transitalk/TransiOther.html and click on Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority for existing WMATA Bus and Rail Photos
Regards
Trevor Logan
Co-Webmaster/Ringmaster
TransiTALK
In 1957, the Atlantic City Transportation Company started a "Ride
Home Free" campaign from Garwood Mills, a discount shopping center
next to the bus garage (the old trolley barn and shops) at the
Inlet, and from various stores along Atlantic Avenue from Virginia
Avenue to Arkansas Avenue. This campaign was mainly for bus
passengers along the Atlantic Avenue and Longport route, which
replaced the trolley line late in 1955, and on the Atlantic Avenue-
Chelsea Heights bus route. GM TDH-4512 diesel bus 3916 carried
an advertisement for the "Ride Home Free" campaign and bus 3903
carried an advertisement for Elfman's Shoes.
I just heard this off a driver on the B82(Run #113) who heard this from his union chief.
Bus System pivk goes into effect In April, to coincide with the opening of a NEW DEPOT. The depot will be located in Maspeth Queens where the old AVIS Buliding used to be. The following routes are planned to be assigned there:
B18,B24,B43,B48,B57,Q54,Q55,Q59.
Anyone who can confirm this better than i can, please let em know.
Did you know that if you say something enough, it automatically becomes true? This rumor's been floating around for months. It is true that Brooklyn's depots are at or over capacity. However, even if a site could be found for a new depot, it would take months/years and millions of dollars to either renovate the facility on the site or knock down whatever's there and build a new depot. Remember that West Side, which was a Greyhound facility, did not open as a MaBSTOA depot immediately upon being acquired; it had to be renovated first.
David
[I just heard this off a driver on the B82(Run #113) who heard this from his union chief.
Bus System pivk goes into effect In April, to coincide with the opening of a NEW DEPOT. The depot will be located in Maspeth Queens where the old AVIS Buliding used to be. The following routes are planned to be assigned there:
B18,B24,B43,B48,B57,Q54,Q55,Q59.
Anyone who can confirm this better than i can, please let em know.]
Will the AVIS building in LIC or Maspeth, Queens be rebuilt & converted to a bus depot & where is this AVIS building located at.
Finally, since the new Central Maintainence Facility will open in the Bronx next year to replace the ENY Facility. Will there be a painting facility at the next Bronx location, if it is true, are there plans to move the painting facility from Crosstown to the new facility in the Bronx if there is going to be one there & reopening Crosstown as a bus depot instead of using the AVIS building in Queens for the new Brooklyn Depot. Also, what work need to be done at Crosstown before they reopen it as a bus depot & how many buses were assigned to Crosstown before it closed in late 1981.
The Avis building is located on Grand Ave. near the Grand Ave. swing bridge (don't get it confused with the bridge which goes up & down at Metrop'n & Grand Ave's.) The facility has been vacant for a few years. The site would be an excellent location for a bus depot. It is located in a fully industrial area, but God help a driver who can't drive his/her car to work for whatever reason: the Q59 does not run 24/7 and does not have frequent service when it does run.
I'd like to hear some good news for a change but in my case it would mean actually closing a bus service center. Does anyone know if or when the overhaul shop tracks inside 207 Street yard in Washington Heights will cease to exist for the purpose of rebuilding and painting buses? The buses have knocked over third rails and damaged employee's cars inside the yard. There is little room for a bus to be maneuvering into the yard from the property protection shack into the facility on 15-17 tracks. It is becoming a safety hazard and RTO has little say so in the matter. By the way, are these guys contractors or base shop employees?
as far as i know,bus painting is still done in-house by
base shop employees.
ANDY/UP
If this is true, well, my name ain't Bill from Maspeth!!!!!! This is the first time I am hearing of this!!!!!!! This is NOT true!
Yes it is true. It is all over Jackie Gleason, Ulmer Park and other Brooklyn Depot. The system pick will be in late Febuary early March. The builduing is already being set up for uses as depot. The rest of the work will be done with it open. All the TA needs in it is a place for the driver to report ot the dispature and F/B Vack, Fuel Station.
Where will this new depot be located and what lines will be assigned there.Is the property being rented or did the TA buy it.
Also any other depot or route changes being planned at the same time
Thank You
In 1957, the Atlantic City Transportation Company began its "Ride
Home Free" campaign from Garwood Mills, a discount shopping center
next to the bus garage, which both replaced the old trolley barn
and shops, at the Inlet, and from various stores on Atlantic Avenue
from Virginia Avenue to Arkansas Avenue. This campaign was mainly
used on the Atlantic Avenue and Longport bus route which replaced
the trolley line late in 1955, and also the Atlantic Avenue to
Chelsea Heights bus route. GM TDH-4512 diesel bus 3916 carried an
advertisement for the "Ride Home Free" campaign. Bus 3903 carried
and advertisement for Elfman's Shoes and 3910 for The Famous Shop,
a women's clothing store.
I would like to know if this is true about the new Brooklyn Bus Depot, they haven't built any new depot yet, are you sure, if it is, this must be reopening Crosstown as a bus depot, if it is a new depot, where is the AVIS Building in Maspeth, Queens located at & is the new depot or Crosstown going to open in April 2000.
Please post any information you might have on Bustalk.
Sincerely,
Mike
Crosstown Depot will not going to reopen in 2001 & they will stay a paint shop also i heard MTA going to build or lease some depots somewhere in Maspeth, Queens & Brooklyn also in Staten Island. Why don't you sit back & wait OK!!!
What routes when new 100th Street Depot open in late 2001??? My pick will be M79, M86, M96/106, M98, M101, M102, M103, X90, X92. The Depot will have New Flyer Articlated, 1993 Orion buses & MCI.
M79 Articlated
M86 Articlated
M96/106 Orion
M98 Orion
M101,102,103 Articlated
X90,92 MCI
100th will not receive any artics, Artics are to stay at West Side!
Trevor
Yep i heard they going to put Artics in New 100st Depot in the first place but they change it to i think it will be New Flyer D40 or hybrid buses or Standard like RTS or Orion buses. Am im correct Trevor??? Old 100st Depot was to torn down this month or next month & look like it going to be delay.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
100 street will probably come up as a CNG garage for Manhattan SO. Be on the look out. I will call my source at the TA and get exact info!
Trevor
Manhattanville will get CNG capacity, so will Coliseum.
I heard that 100th street will get mostly Hybrids and new low floors from a company I am not allowed to announce.
You're not allowed? What if you tell us and then kill us instead? There are only a few bus companies around anyway.
100 STREET WILL NOT BE A HYBRID DEPOT! THE HYBRID DEPOT IS MANHATTANVILLE! The next Year 1999 order of 5 and Year 2000 Order of 125 Orion VI Hybrids and 5 NovaBUS RTS Hybrids are going to Manhattanville. 100 St is being looked at as a possible CNG Depot. Bus have not been order for that depot yet. The Next major CNG order will go to Coliseum and they will be either New Flyer C40LFs or Orion VI CNGs to be delivered sometime by next after the 190 NEW FLYER C40LFs!
So there is nothing to hide, I get all of my info from the TA straight and there is not restriction on me sharing the info. Kill me if you want!!!!
Trevor
New Coliseum Depot will open sometime in middle of summer in 2000. The routes should be Bx4,5,17,22,27,35,36,39,40,42. Depot should be New Flyer LF40, Novabus, & Hybrid buses.
Actually this is gonna be a straight CNG garage, NO HYBRIDS, Manhattanville will be a straight Hybrid garage by 2001 with the order of 125 more Orion VI Hybrids to make for a grand total of 142 Hybrids in the Fleet.
Trevor
I pass by this past week & it already up but no wall. Look like the Colisum Depot will be ready sometime in early or late 2000. I know that depot going to be CNG & look like it going to have about over 200 buses in Coliseum Depot. When the Coliseum Depot in 2000 & which Depot are going to close??? Mother Hale or Amsterdam Depot? All i heard it Mother Hale going to Close first when New Coliseum Depot open.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
PS Who the hell is Die Hard MTA Fun????? This guy must be crazy about buses.
Actually, Amesterdam will close first, then MCH!
Trevor
Where will the buses (by this I mean the routes AND the buses) go when AMS and MCH close?
Also, is Hudson or West Side going to become any particular kind of depot? For example, Coliseum is all CNG, manhattanville is all Hybrid.
Hudson will eventually close and West Side will remain regular diesel and articulated. The extra capacity afforded by the opening of Coliseum will allow another depot to close.
I just finished a 35 picture update at my webpage. New sections and new pics. It's awesome. Don't forget to sign the guestbook. Click Here for it
Peace Out
-Clayton
One of my favorite rules of thumb is that busdrivers are afraid changes to lines or new equipment or new depots. When the artics start on the M79 in mid-January, many of the runs will be covered by lower seniority operators. With my 17+ years, it should be a snap to pick exactly what I want on the line. So it is with a heavy heart that I will bid farewell to the Q32 and change depots this coming pick. (I also considered picking a run on the "new" M20, but, unfortunately, there are none that meet my parameters.)
Will the schedule for the new M20 be the same as it was for the M10? (I mean, like, will buses still be on the same headway, leave the terminals at the same times as they did on the M10, or will it all be changed around?
The prints for the M20 are quite similar to the M10. As for the headways, busdrivers are not given this info except in the most general way, i.e. 7 am to 8 am, 12 minutes.
New photos come to TransiTALK and New Sections from Peter Pan, Short Line/Gray Line, PATH, and Trans Bridge. Plus we now are 5 Webmasters Strong!
Trevor Logan, Kevin Barsky, DaShawn Pretlow, Jason Davis, & Gary Chatterton!
Check out this hot update, you will not be let down!
http://geocities.com/transitalk/NYCTransit.html
Regards,
Trevor
I would just like to know exact locations on where the MTA is going to built or lease some depots in Maspeth, Queens, Brooklyn & Staten Island.
Please post information on bustalk.
Sincerely,
Mike
Didnt you just post this question a while back????????
B46M Limited
Hello busfans, Sorry i havn't been on bustalk for while because i ran out of my hard drive & i don't have enough space to put my pictures into my pages. Any way it good to back in bustalk & guys like trevor, MCIMAN2000, Kevin, Jason, paddleperson6000 i heard he change his name & other are great bustalk. Soon of later i will add my bus & subway pictures right after Thankgiving & i have couple of NovaBus LF #995. So catch you later bustalk.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
Is the MTA ordering year 2000 Nova RTS's?
If so, when will they come?
And where will they go?
Please, No more RTS's!
RTSs are fine, although I think that there are so many of them it's overkill. We don't need any more.
The 5 NovaBUS RTS Hybrids will be Year 2000 models!!!
Trevor
My e-mail address was mistyped in the last few messages so I posted this to change it. And to warn you in the off event you decide to e-mail me.
I was just wondering if there is any input required from the driver to keep the system operating? Do you have to keep an eye on any gauges, or is it all automatically controlled? I thought it might be more engaging if you had to adjust the idle speed or something like that. I rode it several months ago when it was running to Park Row, whatever route that was. I don't remember the driver doing much. paul
No, you don't have to do a thing. You just turn the master control knob on, push the start toggle, and when it starts, it starts. No need to pump the throttle, etc.
While there really aren't many guages to watch, particularly on RTS's, you do have to watch the air pressure guage. Though it usually has a low-pressure warning buzzer connected, it is a good idea to periodically check the guage to see if air pressure is cycling at a decent speed, that the bus is not leaking somewhere, and that the pressure doesn't go too high. Generally, it should cycle between 90-125 psi (controlled by a device on the compressor known as the "air governor'); it should NOT go over 130 psi. Low air warning device should activate when the pressure drops to between 55-75 psi, and if it goes lower the parking brake should automatically apply and not release until air pressure builds back up to over 90 psi.
Steve-- Thanks for your answer. I messed up the wording of my original question. But I have a question for you about the air pressure. Is it possible for there to be a loss of air pressure due to a break in the air lines? Have you ever heard of a driver losing all his air pressure rapidly? If it happened would the emergency brakes apply and could that cause trouble if you were on a highway?
Many many moons ago, I worked for Railway Express in the garage department, shifting tractors and regular panel trucks from the garage to the terminals. Anyway, when you first started most tractors, you would have to get the pressure up to either 60 or 90 before the emergency brakes could be released. Once I started up an old International that had a mechanical handbrake, one that you would pull a lever up to apply. Well I was daydreaming, and released the handbrake even though I had no air pressure built up,and made a soft landing on one of the garage pillars. It was a sickening feeling going for the brakes, and realizing that I had screwed up big time. Fortunately no one was hurt.
Yes, nowadays, if there was a sudden air loss (such as a hose breaking), the air pressure would drop towards zero psi and the
emergency brakes would apply.
All the more reason for a driver to periodically check the air pressure guage -- I've never really see, nor heard of, a hose "suddenly" breaking. They usually wear (most of the time due to rubbing against something) of a fitting starts toloosen (vibration
is a chief cause). If a hose were rubbing and wore to a point that air was escaping, it would definitely show on the air pressure guage.
If one of the brake diaphragms wore to a point where it breaks inside the chamber, when the brakes are applied, there would be a major air loss -- sometimes enough to set the low air warning devices, and if large enough, the emergency brakes would set. Again, checking the air guage often would give warning that something in the system is amiss.
What will happen if the air pressure goes over 130 PSI?
Well you don't want the air pressure to keep building up and up, because in the worst case scenario you could have an explosion or just blow lines that weren't designed for high pressure. Probably you wouldn't want to have very high pressure going to the brake cylinders.
Normally, the compressor has a setting which tells it to come on when the pressure drops below 90 and to cut out when it reaches about 120. If the high pressure cut out on the compressor doesn't work, then I think the air tanks have high pressure relief valves, which will blow off air if the pressure gets too high. Sometimes you hear on a garbage truck or other truck with air brakes, a frequent discharge of air. I've always thought that that was the high pressure valve dumping air when the compressor was running without stop.
All of what I just said will probably be corrected, but it's just my limited sense of air compressors.
That air discharge sound is the air dryer. It cleans the dirt and moisture from the compressed air before it goes into the tanks.
Moisture can cause rust and frost build up in winter. The unit then discharges the waste when the compressor stops running. Sometimes you hear a dunp truck constantly releasing air non-stop. That is the sound of a compressor govenor malfunction. The overload value is releaseing the excess air in the tanks.
No, you would NOT have an explosion if the air pressure kept going about 130 psi.
There is yet another safety device on air brake systems, known as the "high pressure safety valve" which opens when the pressure gets to about 140 psi or more, and it dumps the air very quickly. You very rarely hear this device working, but it is VERY loud. It is a lot louder than the normal air venting when the bus reaches around 120 psi to blow off any moisture that may have built up during compression and settled in the bottom of the tank.
The dangers in running the air pressure over 130 psi? Air lines made of synthetic materials might not be able to stand up to the pressure. Nor can the brake diaphragms inside the brake chambers. So,the high pressure safety valve takes care of any problems with the air governor which is supposed to keep the air between (approximately) 90 and 125 psi.
Really... once on a 1997 Nova-RTS-06 Suburban the PSI was up around 140 or 150. Mabye the arrow was broken.
The safety valves usually blow off at 150 psi. Maybe it just didn't quite hit that far!
I messed up the original post.
I was wondering about 995 which is running in
Manhattan, is any special attention required of the
driver in the operation of the hybrid
diesel-electric system?
995 is not a Hybrid.
Why does everyone think that EVERY LF bus is a Hybrid???
-Hank
I really have messed this question up from the
beginning. The bus I meant to ask a question about
was the 6350 series diesel-electric which had the
New York State Power Authority Signs on it. I liked
that bus. Where is that running now? I think I
should just take a ride on it, and forget asking
questions for a while.
6350 and four other Orion Hybrid (With five more on the way) and one RTS Hybrid are running out of Manhattonville Depot. They are a very nice running bus. The only thing I don't like is there is alot less seats in them then a regual bus. The Low Flours that run out of Jackie Gleason have two steps in the back so more seat can go over the rear axle. This is comming from a view cine I drive out of JG and road the Hybrids out of MV more then once.
Thanks Robert. Do you know what lines the 6350's might be running on? I'm not familiar with Manhattanville Depot.
The following routes operate out of Manhattanville: M-2, M-3, M-4 (split-Hale), M-5, M-18, M-60, M-101, M-103. I don't know whether the Hybrids are found more often on any one of those routes.
I've seen the 6350's a lot on the M3.
The Hybrids primary lines are the M3, M5, M60, M101, M103
Trevor
Yeah, but this is a function of the low floor design, NOT the hybrid propulsion. This is the mistake everyone is making with these buses. They assume that either 'Hybrids suck because there are less seats' and 'All LF buses are Hybrids'
-Hank
I was looking at the bus pics and saw a pic of x84 with a destination Shea Stadium. I think the bus # is 3965. Is this a special express bus? What depot does it operate out of? Any info will be greatly appreciated..............
B46M Limited
The x84 is a 'Special' that runs from Shea Stadium to Randalls Island. There's als the x80, x81, x82, and x83, which all run from different areas to Randalls Island.
-Hank
X80 Randall Is
X80 E Harlem
125-Lex
#4/5/ 6 Train
Metro North
X81 Randall Is
X81 Woodside
#7 Train
LIRR
X82 Inwood
Dyckman St
X83 Yankee Std
#4 Train
X83 Randall Is
X84 Shea Std
X84 Randall Is
X85 G W Bridge
A Train
X85 Randall Is
X86 Randall Is
X86 Bway===145 st
X90 Downtown
Trade Ctr
X90 Yorkville
York --92 st
X92 Yorkville
York---92 st
x92 Downtown
Water==Broad
x92 Yorkville
Lex--96 St
Via York Av
I added the last few as an extra
Thanks. Any info on headways???????
B46M Limited
sorry,,,no info
Steve
The TA just have these sing in the codes. I know they don't run these routs yet. They could be used when something is going on at the statum on the Island. Me and the other driver that were bring buses New Low Flours from Long Istand had the X83 Yankees Statum up while on the LIE about three week ago.
A couple of weeks ago, it was the day of the yankee parade, I rode 3965 on the X25, from Jackie Gleason.
As a huge Transit bus buff, I have been trying desperately to get a real clear photo of the 1963 General Motors TDH-5303 New Look model New York City Transit Museum Bus #3758 from which I understand is currently housed at the Ulmer Park Bus Depot. From growing up as a young child during the early 1970's on Staten Island, I can still remember the script New York City Transit Authority logo on top of the green body 1963 GMC 5303 buses which were assigned to the Castleton Depot in the 3601 - 3630 fleet roster. When speaking to Mr. Bruce Levy, Special Events Coordinator from NYC Transit's Department Of Buses; he told me for some ridiculous reason that outsiders are not allowed to visit and photograph the Vintage Transit Buses. However, my question is if there are any NYC Transit bus operators or employees who can take a full front side view picture of this Classic 1963 GM Fish Bowl Bus #3758 showing the script Transit Authority logo? I would have absolutely no problem paying for the photography and reproducing. I do understand that there was a NYC Transit photographer by the name of Mike Spano (from the 1999 Bus Insiders Guide). Other than that, even if it is prohibited to visit Vintage Transit Bus (1963 TDH-5303) #3758 at Ulmer Park, I am more and willing to challenge the law just to take a photo myself of that vehicle. While you can get arrested for entering Transit property, there would still be no way I can get sent to Prison just for viewing an antique transit bus. I am willing to live dangerously.
Don't live dangerously. I live a few blocks from UP. If I show up in uniform, I can simply walk in and take the pics. Bad news is I have no free time to do this until Saturday.
i have color photos of the following ta museum buses;
1959 gm#100 1961 gm#1059 1962 gm#2151 1963 gm#3758
1972 gm#6313 1968 gm#8928 1972 flx#7340 1964 flx#5117
1969 flx#4727 1980 flx#236(grummen) 1956 mack#6259
old look gm #'s 2969,4789,7144,9098 1966 gm#8466
i work in ulmer pk depot 6pm to 2am(except tu/we)
ANDY
Any chance of you getting a pic of 3160 b4 it is taken away? I took some pics of it but they are through a double fence.
3160 is currently parked between two dead buses and is probably
also dead.i would not be able to get a good picture at this time.
you might be intrested to know that i drove that bus in service
about 5 years ago on the B8.i drove it about 6 times and found
it to be a crummy bus.the gas pedal was as hard as a rock for
some reason and the pick up was slow coming out of the bus stop.
it would also stall if you left it running at the end of the line.
the road truck had to come and get this bus quite often!
if they ever move the buses around it,i'll let you know.you can
stroll into our yard any afternoon(don't say i said so),nobody
will stop you.
ANDY
Thanks i would appreciate that.
could this be the reason why most of the 4700's you guys have and the 7500's have so much scratchitti? no securtiy means kids can get in and damage them. what are UP maitnence doing about the windows? do they update them like the 9000's are?
the 4700's came to us from mabstoa in that condition by way of
amsterdam depot.we had a hell of a time just getting the roaches
out of them.the body men here just replace broken windows.
one strange thing i noticed;you know how most rts buses have 2
sets of windows on each side that open? have you noticed that
some of these 4700's have as many as 6 or 8 of these windows?
it seems that mabstoa likes using these for window replacement.
the 7500's came to us from eny.they also were full of roaches,
though not as bad as the oa buses.
ANDY/UP
Maybe if UP had some of their own buses, they wouldn't have so many problems. The only buses that were originally theirs were the 3600-3700's, the 7000 expresses and the 1996 locals.
Thank you Andy for that reply regarding the New York City Transit Vintage Buses. My Brother Eric Updale is employed to N.Y.C. Transit himself as a bus operator on Staten Island out of the Yukon Bus Depot.
For Eric, this is his third year driving New York City Transit buses.
Eric actually first started his Transit job back in 1997 working in Brooklyn driving Transit bus routes from the Ulmer Park Depot.
In any case, with regards to the color photos you have of the former
New York City Transit Authority 1963 General Motors TDH-5303 New Look model bus #3758; does this picture show a full overall front/side view
of the bus along with a clear view of the original script New York City Transit Authority logo on top? The script Transit Authority logo is one of my most favorate features about this 1963 TDH-5303 Fish Bowl Transit bus. If this color photo you have of 1963 GMC bus #3758 has all these features, would it be possible to please send me an actual glossy photo duplictaion of this bus image. Remember, I would have absolutely no problem paying you money towards the duplications and processing. Thanks again for taking the time in sharing my interests of keeping the Vintage Transit Bus Heritage alive.
PS: You can contact me at my following Postal Address...
Mr. Anders J. Updale Jr.
104 Duer Ave.
Staten Island, N.Y. 10305
sorry,the photo i have of 3758 does not show the logo.it is a
front and right side veiw taken mainly from the front.
have you ever seen the joe tesstagrossa collection of vintage
bus photos? you can veiw them thru www.nycsubway.org/car/.
would you be interested in any of the other photos i have?
i cannot show them over the web because i don't have a scanner.
ANDY
Would Long Island Bus be included if there was a TA strike? I hear that MTA LI Bus drivers do not have a contract, and that
if there is an NYCT strike LI Bus operators will not run routes like the N4,N6,N22,N24 to Jamaica and N20/N21 to Flushing.
Bus routes will terminate at the city line.
I wonder what alternatives do all the riders on these most heavily used routes have? Will they take LIRR to get into Queens,
and will the LIRR be so crowded that tickets will not be collected, or they will go around collecting change?
I have a feeling alot of people will be taking the LIRR between Great Neck and Flushing if the strike goes through. Wonder if
LIRR has enough extra trains for the load? If LIRR gets away with charging displaced bus/subway riders full fare, the MTA still
makes money even if there's a strike. Either way you look at it, MTA wins. Perhaps if LIRR joined in on the strike, the MTA
would really be crippled. It's high time the people of NYC and Long Island respect the workers who drive the buses and
operate the trains, and if there is a strike, we should be mad at the MTA top brass for not giving what the MTA workers asked
for.
I had to be in Queens yesterday and saw these 3 items of interest to B-T'ers.
1 - I was westbound on the LIE at about 8:45 AM around Shelter Rock Road and saw a QS RTS being towed by a truck Eastbound. Could not pick up the number. My guess that it was in tow to Atlantic Diesel out in Bohemia. Thurston, am I correct????
2 - Noticed MTA bus 523 on Q 32 headed toward Manhattan. Its an Orion that has Orange Signs, not Yellow. They stand out because they are of a brighter intensity than the yellow and can be read from a further distance away.
3 - Saw a cTc on 69th Street going north over Queens Blvd. with its new paint scheme. It looks really sharp. Congrats to cTc for using some creativity in the new design. It looks clean and sharp from a distance.
I'm sending pics of 522 and 8490 featuring the orange destination sign to MCIMAN2000 along with a pic of Triboro's new paint scheme. Also being sent is a pic of what looks like an accident at 57 Street and 5 Avenue.
1.Did the QS Bus have a the regular scheme (2 strips) or did it have 1 dolid orange strip? (ex: One strip #207)
2. 522 has the orange signs, not 523.
3. 2808, 2815, 2821, 2824 and 2828 have the new paint scheme.
MM2000
1.Did the QS Bus have a the regular scheme (2 strips) or did it have 1 Solid orange strip? (ex: One strip #207)
2. 522 has the orange signs, not 523.
3. 2808, 2815, 2821, 2824 and 2828 have the new paint scheme.
MM2000
From a quick glance it had 2 strips not one solid
A friend of mine that works for Command said that Command will be taking over the X27, 28, and 29 in Februaury. Can anyone confirm this?
Peace,
Kevin
If they do, do they also take over the X25?
Will they become the BM7, BM8 and BM9?
No way. The TA has no plans to give up these routes. If anything the TA is looking to start a new express route replacing the old BM15 which was operated by the defunt Metro Apple Express along Bay Ridge Parkway and Stillwell Ave.
Besides where will Command store the buses.
They also will have to double their fleet
Command has plenty of room to store the buses. Remember they can still use their old facility and they can also use the storage yard two blocks away from their current facility. Believe me I dont want Command to take over those routes I just wanted to make everyone aware that my friend from Command was told that Command will be taking over the X27, 28, and 29. Time will tell.
Your friend that works at Command needs to do something better with his or her free time. There are no plans for Command to take over the X27, X28, or the X29.
Thanks ; thats why i called it a "rumor". I found it hard to believe.
Peace,
KayBee
If anything Command and all the other Company will be taking over be the TA. DOT want ot get out of the bus servers. They will become another MABSTO. They will all have to meat TA starders in serivec and keep there buses in good running condiction.
I wish Command would be taken over bt the TA. Service is horrible. They need to add buses especially on the BM2 where there has been a large increase in ridership. The problem is they dont care. They need to be more like NYBS and Liberty Lines.
THAT'S TRUE! They (you'll notice that they run my bus) often skip busses, which makes the next bus so crowded that people get skipped (missing two busses and it's not their fault). They frequently leave early to "even out" the schedule, refuse to run additional service to Madison High School, in fact, they didn't even put it on the map. Their old RTSs are in worse condition than comparable aged RTSs at the TA, their new expresses are a step DOWN. They had busses of 102DL3 quality years ago, but now they go down to the express Orions that the TA has replaced with the 102DL3s, that has a WORSE seating arrangement than the local hard seaters (RTS). Their rear doors do not have those auto strips on all busses. There is no STOP REQUESTED light, which IS important and not because drivers forget, because they dont. Although this is more of a frivolous comment, the TA decor is more appealing.
NYCT-Spring Creek Depot B100 of Royal Island (although the bus might move to Flatbush because it goes RIGHT BY IT and has relatively close terminals, unless FB becomes all artic).
The metro apple express i am not too familair with. Do you know where this BM15 ran or was there any other service this company provided? where they located and why did they fold?
I once saw a bus driver rolling the sign, I was outside, and I noticed a lot of cool signage, I remember there was a sign that said simply STATEN ISLAND and another that said BMX Coney Island, where X is a number I cannot recall. Does anybody know what all the signs on the roll are and what BM busses are now defunct. Was there ever an SM, SBM or RM/RBM (older) private bus?
At one time the old Pioneer Bus and possibly Command operated Bus Service from Staten Island to Shea Stadium.The BMX could possible be for a route which never happened.
I do now that at one time Domenico Bus Service operated 3 express routes from Staten Island to Manhattan. I believe that these routes are operated today by Academy.
Metro Apple ran out of bay ridge. They had two routes when i worked there (about 12 years ago) One was fifth ave in bay ridge and i can not think of the other right now. They dropped of on 6 ave in and picked up on 5 out. They were owened by a co.in nj never found out who. Then Erin tours got involed with them two. When i worked there they had mostly flxible subrabans and a couple of fishbowels. Also no fareboxes we had to handle money.
Metro Apple Express had 3 0r 4 routes
BM 10 Bay Ridge via 3rd/4th Ave
BM 11 via 65th Street
BM 12 Boro Park
BM 15 via Bay Ridge Parkway/Stillwell Ave
They were owned by Red and Tan Bus Lines before Erin took them over
I would like to know on just where NYCT plans to built this new Brooklyn Bus Depot, I heard that it would be the former AVIS facility in Maspeth, Queens or the UPS facility on 27 St & Hunts Point Av in LIC, Queens, which is it, can you find out from NYCT Department of Buses which one of thses facilities will get a new Brooklyn Bus Depot or will they look at another location, if so, what sight is being looked at.
Please post information on bustalk.
I really don't know about the new Brooklyn garage yet, But I will get some info for you soon?!?!
Trevor
In my neighborhood on the B1 route, the bus stop sign fell over the weekend. now i have no sign there. who do i have to call to get a new bus stop sign there? please post number if anyone knows
Report it to the NYC DOT at 718-225-5368.
thanks
Early today i was talking to my father about the Strike & they looking for 13% raise in three years. He told me they might go on Strike on Christmas Day. My father doesn't want to go on strike because he need money to pay bills & support his family. Any way i hope the union will give a new contact by Dec 25 or else but i don't want MTA to go on strike.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
Subways wants a strike. MABSTOA better not ruin it!
Christmas Day Strike?
The last time I tried to use mass transit on Christmas Day (1988), it took me hours to get anywhere, because so many drivers failed to show up. On the B67 at 9th Street, the driver got out and walked away, but a replacement did not show up for 40 minutes. I'd have walked home, but I was on crutches from an ankle sprain at the time. And I had to go to the bathroom. And my wife had a cold. We bought a car soon after -- that was the last holiday fare we ever paid.
So if you have to strike, I think Christmas Day is a good time to do it. Few people will be worse off than they would have been anyway.
A strike on Xmas Day would not be a very good idea as it is traditionally a low ridership day. If there is to be a strike (and I still doubt it), it will be the week before Xmas. Coincidentally, I'll be on vacation that week in Seattle.
Why would Coomand get these Bus routes and not some others? How will ths affect the service on the other routes? Do those buses that have bee hanging out On Flatlands avenue have naything to do with it or are they just srcap? Now I have on a personal side of me felt that if the Ta would open up a new depot ( which is what they are doing) and reopen Crosstown as well some of theses problems about overcrowding would be solved. You see, i thought that what you could do with Crosstown was take the existing brooklyn express routes and maybe 3 expresses from queens and additional service to a staten Island express route maybe this would loosen up the space that is so needed for the other depots. This way you would have 5 (soon 6 ) depots providing local and limited service while crosstown would house the expresses. I know it is far fetched and that these routes don't even run near this depots, but in drastic times calls for drastic measures ( B8 to bay ridge, as an example) But it could help what do you out there think?
Oh yeah! by the way does anyone out there think that anyone from the ta would at least look here for some sugestions to improve service and hear something from the riding public? We are creative and very innovative!
I wouldn't be a bit surprised to learn that a number of TA folks DO in fact read post to this site. Many have e-mail & some of the suits have Web access too.
Mr t__:^)
I would hope they would at least see that we the riding public have a great deal of sugesstions they could look into at least and since they will do nothing to help out (except for the new Depots -and God help them if they screw that up too!!!) the situation
MTA NYCT Cummins Orions 295-297, 299 and 300 have been out of service for sometime now. Buses 295-297 are parked in the College Point Blvd. storage yard (visible from the Flushing IRT structure). Bus 299 is under the foot bridge at Casey Stengel Depot, and 300 is in ENY Base Shop. Bus 300 was the only one of this group that was running up until October. The other have been laid out for a while now.
Does anyone know what theor mechanical history has been? They seem to be very troublesome buses. Is the Cummins L10 that bad?!?!?
Actually those buses are in service, i've seen 297 on the Q44 in the psat week! also THAT IS A CUMMINS C8.3!
NOT A L10
SORRY TO BURST THAT BUBBLE!
Trevor
Your not bursting any bubbles...I was told it was a Cummins L10. In any case these 5 buses are complete BS. They sound horrible and the are out of service more than they are in service.
295 and 296 were out of service up to last week when I saw them myself.
They're not Cummins L-10's. The L-10 sounds completely different. In the NYC area the only buses (that I know of) with the Cummins L-10 are a few of Westchester County Bee Line Flxible Metros in the high 800 series.
Wayne
295-297, 299-300 ARE CUMMINS C8.3's
THANKS, TREVOR & WAYNE
Mark
The Cummins C8.3 is a genuine piece of crap!
We had some of our Gillig Phantoms re-engined with them (they replaced L-10's) and in the re-engined buses, the moment the outside temperature hit 82 degrees, the engines overheated. They also had no power after about three weeks of service. Our maintenance department says they are a "nightmare".
On the other hand, we have had verygood luck with the M-11's. They are powerful, don't seem to fade, and stay running on the hottest days.
What about buses 291-294, don't they have the Cummings engine too? I've seen bus 294 in service a lot lately on Q14, Q15, Q27, Q32, and Q44. These buses are due for an upgrade soon too. Maybe that's why 300 is at ENY right now. I think bus 298 used to have the Cummings Engine in it, but now it has the regular engine like the other 1993 Orions- dd50?!
Q66#384Gary
NYCTA Orions 291-294 have DD Series 50 engines. 298 has always had a DD 6V-92TA like the other 1993 Orions. This "special" group has always been at CS while 298 was originally at Kingsbridge and came over to CS with the rest of Kingsbridges' 1993 Orions in 1996.
NYCTA Orions 291-294 have DD Series 50 engines. 298 has always had a DD 6V-92TA like the other 1993 Orions. This "special" group has always been at CS while 298 was originally at Kingsbridge and came over to CS with the rest of Kingsbridges' 1993 Orions in 1996.
Wayne
There are numerous problems with with the Cummins C8.3 and ZF transmissions. The engines seem to overheat much quickly. I operated 297 one day and it wouldn't go faster than 20 mph, it then started to spew white smoke from the engine.
Casey Stengal has many other ORION's out of service on the BO line due to mechanical problems with them (i.e. wheelchair lift, transmission, gear problems, fare box, mirror wires, ect.). It is very hard at times to maintain service. Yard dispatchers sometimes have to put express 'COACHES' (Orion)in service on local lines due to shortage of equipment. Recently, RTS #4591, was borrowed from Jamaica Depot as a spare bus for CS. For the record it was used yesterday (11/16) on the Q28.
I saw that bus yesterday going onto the Q28 on Main St. What about 4352, that bus is sitting in College Point Storage, why can't they use that bus at CS?
MM2000
Will someone please scrap these things!!! I saw buses 1747 and 1844 pulling out from Jamaica Depot today, and they have never looked worse. I would imagine that Gleason and Ulmer Park's are being pieced together for service as well. People have to pay $3 to ride on these pieces of crap. Meanwhile, SI is getting new MCI's delivered as we speak. Where's the help guys? QV somehow manages to operate ten 1982's on the X68.
Speculation has it that 15 1993 Orions will be moved from Yukon to Gleason, and the 1987 RTS express-converts (4873-4888) will go to Queens. Can anyone confirm this??
I'd hate to burst this bubble too, but its the TAs fault that these look like bull@#$!. I live in NJ were the academy purchased ones are doing great as a matter of fact they are running like brand new. SO, the apperance and performance is TA responsiblity because if your rode the ones that Academy have, you'd have a whole different perspective of the 1982/1981 GMC RTS-04s!
Trevor
Agreed...but then again tell me something about the TA that I don't know.
Queens Division has been known for its great maintenance of older buses. It was simply a surprise to see them looking so badly. For example, I saw 1983 RTS 3258 (a QV bus) today and it looked almost brand new. It just seems as though they have given up on the 1982 expresses.
They are not going to waste anymore money on these buses. They will do the minimum to keep them in service til they can be replaced.
KayBee
The 1700's though still around are slowly starting to be phased out. I used to have 1767 religously on the X68. Now 3807 does that run.
the 1800's are still running. Ulmer Park has a few,so does Yukon and WEstside
I see 3807 every morning at Kew Garens Rd and Queens Blvd. Saw it this morning in the same spot.
MM2000
You mean the same exact bus every day on the same run? I've never seen that happen.
On the Q46, run 020 gets bus 3979 everyday.
MM2000
QV and JAM are the only two depots where operators get the same bus for their express runs. In fact some of the the guys even put plaques that say "John's Bus" or "Fred's Bus" by the inside number. These guys even have been known to hang air fresheners throughout their buses.
Since the holidays are coming up be on the look out for buses with Christmas/Chanukah decorations in them. JAM and QV run annual contests for the operator who has the best Holiday decorations. They really get creative.
According to the few Liberty Lines drivers I've spoken to, the drivers are assigned to a specific bus, and are responsible for that bus, period. If it needs cleaning, maintainence, if the air pressure in the inside right-rear tire is low, it is entirely their responsibility to let the maintainence force know. They call it 'Pride of the Fleet' or something like that. I think of it the same way that I rode the EXACT SAME cheesebus to school for 9 years (76D from Pioneer Bus, a Wayne/International) Before that, it was 976, a Wayne/GMC (gas)
-Hank
Note: this is about the MCI to Yukon, 15 Yukon Orions to Gleason.
Do you know which orion's? And when will this happen?
I believe the Orions to JG will be 115-129. As a result the following moves are to made by JG:
1846, 1855, 3099 and 4 1985's to SCRAP
9292-9299 to UP.
UP will then scrap their 1982 coaches and their 1984 converts
Cool :-)
How come if 1846 and 1855 are going to scrap and 1815 isin't?
1815 is in UP isn't it???
1815 has a UP sticker, but I rode 1815 the other day on my X25 which comes out of JG.
[1815 is in UP isn't it???]
1815 is listed in JG according to Glenn's bus roster. Brian
And you depend on Glenn's roster???????
[1815 is listed in JG according to Glenn's bus roster. Brian
The X25 is interlined with the X27 and X28 routes. Thus the X25 is split between UP and JG. Therefore, 1815 is a UP bus.
That made absolutley no sense at all. Please explain?
[The X25 is interlined with the X27 and X28 routes. Thus the X25 is split between UP and JG. Therefore, 1815 is a UP bus.]
I'll type slowly so that you can understand. The X25 is basically built into the schedule of the X27 (JG) and the X29(UP). Therefore, it is operated by the two depots. The X25 is NOT solely operated by JG, so just because you saw 1815 on the line it does not mean that it is a JG bus. Given that rationale, if you would've seen 9340, for example, on the X25 would you assume that is a JG bus as well?
Jambus, do you speak english?
I KNOW that the X25 comes out of both JG and UP, but the X25 that leaves GCP at 7:40 AM operates out of JG. READ IT. J A C K I E G L E A S O N. That is the run I saw 1815 on. If I saw 9340 on the X25, I would not assume it was a bus from JG unless it left GCP at 7:40 AM, on the X25 route.
Well anyway Trevor Logan who posts here (aka MTA BOY) is going to JG today, he'll take a look.
Whats the difference where the damn bus comes out of as long as it shows up????
The term INTERLINE means that the line doesnt have specifically cut runs for that route, rather it is intertwined/combined (whatever) with another route. Management probably would call it a moneysaver. Instead of all these buses deadheading around. When a 27 or 29 is deadheading uptown to 57 Street, instead of going all the way up empty, it makes the TA some money by doing a 25 trip from downtown to uptown.
Mike M., I agree 100% with you and this is what I have been trying to explain to this guy.
No, you've been trying to say "1815 IS OUT OF UP! UP! UP! IT'S OUT OF UP! UP! UP! UP! UP! UP!" That's what you've been saying.
[Mike M., I agree 100% with you and this is what I have been trying to explain to this guy.]
And also, I rode 1815 on my X25 which comes out of JACKIE GLEASON DEPOT.
[The X25 is interlined with the X27 and X28 routes. Thus the X25 is split between UP and JG. Therefore, 1815 is a UP bus.]
The X25 is interlined with the X27 and the X29, not the X28
THE X-25 IS OPERATED BY BOTH JG AND UP.
PA 1815 IS A UP BUS!!!!!!!!!!!
I know the X25 operates out of UP and JG, but MINE COMES OUT OF JG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1815 IS A JG BUS!
[THE X-25 IS OPERATED BY BOTH JG AND UP.PA 1815 IS A UP BUS!!!!!!!!!!!]
Because it may be in better physical shape than the others. Why do you think the rebuilds were done at random? They chose the buses that were in the best condition and would need the least amount of work.
-Hank
why would JG get Orion express if supposedly the X27 is going back to Ulmer Park?
It wouldn't. JG would have gotten Orion expresses if the X27 had stayed there.
David
[why would JG get Orion express if supposedly the X27 is going back to Ulmer Park?]
Well, the X25 is still split at JG.
The X25 is at JG because the X27 is at JG. When the X27 leaves JG in January, the X25 will go with it.
David
[Well, the X25 is still split at JG.]
What's CS getting then 130 and up or 611 to 630
So then why are Orions going to JG if there aren't gonna be any express routes there?
[The X25 is at JG because the X27 is at JG. When the X27 leaves JG in January, the X25 will go with it.]
Again...who said Orions are going to Gleason? BTW, Orion CNG local buses have been running out of Gleason for several years. There's no operational reason why Orions couldn't run out of Gleason.
David
[So then why are Orions going to JG if there aren't gonna be any express routes there?]
JG also ran standard Orions...remember 452-458? Granted if the X25/27 goes to UP, then one can surmise that some YUK Orions will show up there.
Being informed of the lackluster maintenance of busses at Yukon depot, I would find your abbreviation fitting for these Orions, unless I am mistaken as to their condition.
when the x27 goes back to ulmer park the x25 will also go back
ulmer park depot cannot accomodate orion buses as it couldnt accomodate grumman buses in the 1980s. it is strictly an rts depot. si orions could only be sent to casey stengel or perhaps westside to replace 3800 series express buses.
up was able to accodamte grumman buses. they used to run grumman buses out of the depot. they can run orions, but not the cng because of ceiling size
Ulmer park will not get Orion Express buses. It is strickly a RTS depot
Casey doesn't need any more express buses. I THINK QV can handle Orions. It is a former Grumman depot, and Orion 294 was assigned to QV for a couple of months in 1994 for driver training
Ulmer Park HAD Grummans.
David
[ulmer park depot cannot accomodate orion buses as it couldnt accomodate grumman buses in the 1980s. it is strictly an rts depot. si orions could only be sent to casey stengel or perhaps westside to replace 3800 series express buses.]
Oh, and when will this happen?
The Orions will go to UP, instead of JG. But, can UP handle Orions?
Can someone explain to me why is it that with all of the new express buses that the MTA has acquired, within the past six years (Orions, NovaBuses, MCIs), why on earth is that the Southeast Queens express routes have to be stuck with either the oldest express bus equipment in the system or old local buses, converted to express buses.
I feel that is really disgusting.
Of all the new express buses that the MTA has purchased, QV and JAM have received a total of 5 (that's right 5) buses. In 1997, JAM received 9345-9349. In 1998, these two depots, received a whopping 7 more buses from the stellar maintenance folks at Yukon (9250-9256). The others as you have said have been practically the oldest buses in the system, or local converts. Incidentally, if you are over 6-feet tall, don't try to sit in any of the forward facing seats of the local-to-express conversion buses (3497, 3572, 3573 or 3575 for example).
QV doesn't have any local to express converts yet, but I can't imagine how the seating could be any worse than the DOT CNG Orions.
i think this could have something to do with politics. when the blitz buses arrived in staten islandm after the accident it had on the bridge, staten island got priority on new buses for express lines.Queens bus lines dont get much revenue and therefore dont get new express buses(though i know #9345-#9349 is at Jamaica depot and they are express)
RE Broken down old stuff - I saw an edxample of what happens when you put it out on the road today. I believe it was 1762 (17XX anyway) ont he Northbound Bronx River Pkwy at around 8:40AM this morning - broken down in the right lane just north of the subway yard.
Imagine how many smiling faces we would have had if it had broken down in the Southbound lanes. It surely would have "enhanced" my drive to work.
Seriously - I'm surprised they let a bus that age out on the road to service an express route on a heavilly travelled road that can back up traffic for miles over the slightest hickup.
That's all ,,folks
Steve
I was wondering what year was the B51 started. I have an early bus map before it and Iam not sure when service started for it.
b51 started in 1985 after ex b15 manhattan br was elimanated
Wait a second the B15 that was the B10 years ago went into manhattan? Or was this a different B15 bus alll together? How come my map from 1985 has no mention of it? I don't get it.
My Mistake I did not realize this when I typed it but it was olny logical and I apologize. I forgot that if it was 1985 then the B10 was Still the b10 and the B15 at that time had to ahve been a completly different route at the time. So it was not until later that the B10 became the B15 and that was long after the old B15 ended and the 51 came around. My question should ask- where did the old B15 run between?
The old B15 ran from Hanson Place (near the Williamsburg Savings Bank building) at the LIRR station, to Canal Street and Bowery in Manhattan. I am not too sure of the Manhattan terminus. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
The B15 also connected with the old B19 at Hanson Place. The B19 ran from the LIRR terminal to the Brooklyn Navy Yard via Adelphi Street.
manhattan terminal was canal/baxter sts
Which of the engines is more powerful? The Cummins 8.3 or DD Series 50?
From what I head the C8.3 are less powerful but I know that the Cummins company usually produces more torque. The engines are the same size? The cummins 8.3 is a 6 cylinder?
The Cummins L-10 was used in some older tour buses. Now most cummins in intercity buses are M-11s 400hp. How powerful was the L-10.
The Cummins L-10 was also used in a lot of Gillig Phantoms, especially out west. Apparently, the L-10 cannot meet the current emissions standards; Cummins actually paid for our Phantoms to be reengined. Twenty-two of them got C8.3's and our agency is NOT satisfied with them. Thirty got M-11's, and everyone loves the M-11.
The next order of Gillig Phantoms we had also came with L-10's, but our agency paid to have them re-engined as well. They got Detroit Series 50's. No problems with them. In fact, they liked the DD S50 so much that all our New Fklyer low-floors and artic low-floors came with the S50. Powerful but very loud.
Saw this CNG Orion express with scratchitti'd windows this morning on 2nd Avenue. Anyone know if the seats were cut/slashed yet? This bus hasn't even been painted with the Triboro livery yet.
The reason why this bus was vandalized is probably because it was used in local service. I spotted 3057 on the Q23 in Forest Hills last Friday. I had to do a double take!
I have seen Triboro Orion CNG express buses during the evening hours on the Q23, Q38 and Q39. Perhaps the drivers start their work day in the PM rush on an express route and Triboro allows them to keep the same bus as the driver finishes his work day on a local route.
OK, granted this may happen, but what happens when the driver had an MCI Classic.
While i was driving passing the Bronx Zoo & i saw Orion #522 on Q44 with Orange Destination Sign. This is my first time i see MTA have Orange Destination Sign & it cool. I like Orange because it can see clear & it better than green destination sign.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
PS I want to know why paddleperson6000 no longer with Transitalk?? Well he a good kid & his bus page are cool.
This bus was on Q-32 Saturday. I saw it at 44th & Queens Blvd (City Bound). The sign is not only "cool" but can be seen from a further distance than the yellows.
Green Line Orion 5503 has such a sign as does a Command Orion, whose number escapes me at the moment.
4961 Command has that sign.
MM2000
PaddedPerson6000 became Mista M86 out of WS. He's still with us.
He just won't be putting up any new pics. His site is still there. He may still update the buses ridden since Oct 21 section.
MM2000
Lets take a survey...
Who prefers the electronic destination signs?
Who prefers the mylar (old fashion) signs?
I personally like the mylar, overall they are better. Sure they get dirty or ripped but that adds character to the bus.
But when a yellow dot is missing it looks horrible.
Besides, mylar are easier to collect.
I always like them both, but I can see why an agency would want the electronic signs - especially the NYCTA with buses transferring to different depots often, new routes added, current routes altered etc.
Wayne
I'll vote for the green LEDs like they have on the MCI DL3 SI express buses and the late '98 to '99 Nova RTS-06s. (I've seen the orange LEDs on the two GBL and Command Orions, I just like the green LEDs better - haven't actually seen the TA bus from CS w/orange LEDs though.)
From a passenger standpoint, you can actually read the route & destination to determine if it's your bus well before the bus has to pull into the stop.
I am always impressed by the visibility of the LEDs, particularly when I'm driving and see a bus w/the LEDs in the oncoming traffic lane; visually, it's almost an unfair comparison with the older electronic destination signs.
I perfer the Electronic Signs, perfrebaly on the 1999 Novas. Two reasons: One, their high visbility, and two, they can be very funny. Once I saw a NOT from a NOT IN SERVICE sign stuck on an M14 sign, and it wound up saying:
NOT CROSSTOWN
NOT VIA 14TH ST
NOT CHELSEA PIERS
I prefer the orange signs for their visibility. Curiously (and adversely), the mylar signs seem more legible when read in the bus stop.
Hey Busbuffs: What the diffirent between Green or Orange Destination Sign & tell me why you like it better????
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
I like orange better. It's a color thing, nothing else.
Same here -The orange sign is much better -Easier to see from a distance
busconversions.com shows an ad for various 1979 RTS buses with rebuilt engines and Luminator signs. Listed is a 914 area code
http://www.busconversions.com/classifieds.html
Service Changes
Implementation early 2000
Bx03
--- New Terminal
East curb of Broadway bet 178 and 179
via West 179 Westbound,,Southbound on Wadsworth Av,,Westbound on West 177 st,,North on Broadway
Ret via North on Broadway and Eastbound on West 179 St
Alternative to Bx35 Terminal on 179 at nearside of
Broadway
_______________________
Bx36 Route CHange
Implementation Early 2000
Elimination of Hugh Grant Circle Portion of this Route,Westbound Direction ----does not service this area on Eastbound Trips
via E 174,,Cross Bronx Servce Roads and White Plains Road
--------------------------------
Bx13 Route Change ,,Immediate
via Ogden Av,Jerome Av,,E 162 st,,River Av,to Stand
Return via River ,,E161 Street ,JErome Av and Ogden Av
Steve
I read your messege recently & that it was true & that it was all the Brooklyn Bus Depot that a building is already being set up for uses as a depot & the rest of the work will be done with it open. I would like to know where this new Brooklyn Depot will be located at that you are talking about & will it open as iy said in your messege in February or March 2000.
I just heard that there will be two system pick withing three month of each other. The first will be to bring back the X27 to Ulmer Park and send the B82 all over to East New York. Someone just posted that the B78 will also go back to Flatbush in this one. This pick will take effect on 1/16/00. The other one is the one were the new depot will open on. The new depot going to be near the Brooklyn, Queens border on the Queens side. I think the area is called Masthbish(sorry about speeling) or Long Island City. The line that will go there are the line that run from Brooklyn to Queens (exp Q24, Q56, B61). I also heard that other line are going to move around also like the B6 to East New York, The B68 back to Ulmer Park and so on. This pick might take effect in Apr 2000.
This is all that I hear from my Union and other drivers in ths system. So this might not be 100% upto date so don't go saying that I am wrong if this is not the correct infomation. It is just what I have been Hearing.
Robert Out.
Please read my posting as of approx 1805
Steve
FDNY
At 57th & 2d this evening, I spied #7046 going westbound on 57th. The destination sign said "X28 CROSPEY AVE"
Is that a reading that has permeated the Ulmer Park Express fleet?
If it's in one bus, it is probably in all of them.
When the programming is done, it is usually in a "MTU" unit -- Mobile Transfer Unit, made by the headsign manufacturer. That MTU is then plugged into each bus being reprogrammed, and the transfer process takes about 20 seconds per bus.
Don't feel bad -- I've even worked for two companies out here that had mis-spellings on the old roll signs. One was an airport bus operation, and one of the readings said "LONG BEACH AIRPROT". It was only one of six different airport readings on the roll, so someone had their head up their tailpipe when they spelled that one out. I also worked for Gray Line of Los Angeles for awhile, and one order of buses came with "DINSEYLAND" readings. Y'all know what it SHOULD have been, I'm sure!
In a somewhat similar vein, Triboro Coach came out with what I guess were replacement roll signs for some of the RTSs about ten years back...I remember seeing 642 signed for the Q18 to 69 St & Maspeth Avenue.
I keep looking for a swath of demolished buildings between 64 St and 69 St as NYC extends Maspeth Ave to it's new end, but so far nothing...
Ulmer Park has also suffered with the sign "B6 Easy New York" which actually was entered that way. Me? I want the M14 sign to read "Columbia-Delancy." That "FDR-Delancey" sign is years out of date.
some of the Ulmer park buses get the front sign right, while in the back its wrong. and i cant understand why inside, the bus sign looks correct, but in a outer appearence, it doesnt
Also, the signs for the M9, M10, and M22. For their downtown signs (or westbound for the M22), all they say is "BAT PK CITY". They should really say more, like for the M9 and M10, line one should say "SOUTH END AVE" and line two should say "ALBANY ST" ane line three should say "BAT PK CITY". For the M22, line one should be "VESEY ST" and line two should be "BAT PK CITY".
I'd prefer the route to be added
M22 Bat Pk City
M22 via Madison
M22 via Chambers
M9 Bat Pk City
M9 via Avenue B
M9 via E Bway
M10 Bat Pk City
M10 via 7 Ave
M10 via Varick
You don't have TWO "via" signs on a route. I've never seen it. It's usually either ONE "via", ONE general area (like BAT PK CITY), and ONE terminal street, like Vesey St. But sometimes it's NO "via"'s, ONE general area, and TWO terminal streets (like South End Avenue and Albany St).
I've seen two VIAs, I don't recall where. FDNY may be able to corroborate.
I seen two vias in the bronx & manhattan. You might seen two via on New Flyer Articulated because it had two line & sometime on RTS. The reason way because the LED only have 15 letters box.
For Example
Bx12 Bay Plaza
via Pelham Pkwy
via Fordham RD
M101 Ft George
via 125st
via Amsterdam Av
Tough Guy 3:16
You don't get to the outer boros much, do you? It's very common to see buses with a 3-set route sign. x1s run with 'West Midtown/via Church/via 6th Ave' all the time. x17 run with 'East Midtown/via New Jersey/via Madison Ave' as well.
-Hank
I remember those signs as I waited for a B6 at Utica and H.......
B46M Limited
450 was on Q104 today.
MM2000
I'm surprised nobody on BusTalk's mentioned any of this yet, seeing as some of you either are Bus Operators or talk to them, but here's what's happening in Brooklyn with the January 2000 Pick.
1. Pick is to take effect 1/16/00, instead of originally planned 1/9/00.
2. B78 East New York --> Flatbush (welcome home)
3. B82 East New York/Ulmer Park --> East New York (the whole is greater than the sum of its parts?)
4. X27 Jackie Gleason --> Ulmer Park (Musical Routes)
So the B78 is going back home??? I think the B82 would have been better serve by UP?????????
B46M Limited
the B82 is a disaster.they should dismantle it into the B5
and B50 with 30 runs on each line!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANDY/UP
now im really depressed. i just saw here UP loses the B82 in the jan 2000 pick and gets the X27. how about getting the b68 back instead. give Ulmer Park some work at least
I agree but I gues the aruement will be that UP is geting an express route and that may leave them understaffed to handle the flow. There was talk about the years ago to extend it to stillwell or something. I can only hope next time.
Have you ever used the B50??? believe me it sucked big time. I don't want it back ever.
the very message of that route's name brings back bad memories(like the time it snowed less than an inch when i was in high school and all of the B50 buses were going up to CIA and none came back down for 2 hour and 26 minutes -I timed it since had nothing to do but freeze there.) Even with additional trips there has to be alot of supervision on these trips and to shorten that route when many people have actually ( and shockingly) grown to like the B82. It also allows people who live in SC a chance to commute to and from thier homes if they have a late night job 9 although I have seen on many occacions at night th B82 empty or one passenger while the B6 is "full" for the late night service.
Another thing, with all this talk of revision, why is there no change in the push for the B49 limited at all? I am concerned it is never going to happen.
Finally the 78 is returnig to it's birthplace i always belived this would happen and i always felt that the KP buses should be run by flatbush. As for the B82, ohhhhhh brother!!!!!! PREPARE FOR A CASE OF B50ITUS, where buses show up off schedule late or in packs and no one to see this or correct it beyond the canarsie/eastny/SC area. Man Ulmer park did this route justice and take it from me the majority of the buses that ran late were out of ENY be it Rush midday evening and late nights. Oh well I guess 1 out of 2 is nice now if only the 7 return to flatbush with its newly revised weekday service.
Finally the 78 is returnig to it's birthplace i always belived this would happen and i always felt that the KP buses should be run by flatbush. As for the B82, ohhhhhh brother!!!!!! PREPARE FOR A CASE OF B50ITUS, where buses show up off schedule late or in packs and no one to see this or correct it beyond the canarsie/eastny/SC area. Man Ulmer park did this route justice and take it from me the majority of the buses that ran late were out of ENY be it Rush midday evening and late nights. Oh well I guess 1 out of 2 is nice now if only the 7 return to flatbush with its newly revised weekday service. Hmmm wishful thinking.
Is this confirmed and final ,,??
I can confirm these to be true. B78 FLA, B82 ENY, X27 UP.
AND DON'T LOOK FOR A 6th DEPOT IN THE SPRING--MAYBE FALL 2000 OR SPRING 2001.
SO now that the X27 is back at UP, the only express at Jackie Gleason is a split X25?
Unlikely, since the X25 doesn't exist as a route on its own. X25 trips are done by runs on the X27 and X29 routes.
David
[SO now that the X27 is back at UP, the only express at Jackie Gleason is a split X25?]
So why are 15 Suburban Orions going to JG?
[Unlikely, since the X25 doesn't exist as a route on its own. X25 trips are done by runs on the X27 and X29 routes.]
And who said they are?
David
[So why are 15 Suburban Orions going to JG?]
Read the thread titled "Orions to JG. Was: 1982 Express RTS)"
[And who said they are?]
When the x27 goes to ulmer park JG will have NO express at all
Then why is JG getting 15 Suburban Orions?!?
[And who said they are?]
OOps, I meant this
--------------------------------
Then why is JG getting 15 Suburban Orions?!?
[When the x27 goes to ulmer park JG will have NO express at all]
The X25 goes back to UP also. All the X25 is a deadhead trip on the X27/28/29 lines from their downtown terminals to their uptown terminals.
How did you get this info?
I should tell YOU???? :-)
Seriously, I use this handle because I don't want anyone to know who I am. If I told you where I got this information, you might be able to figure out who I am. However, you should note that the information has been confirmed on this board by Robert of Jackie Gleason Depot.
[How did you get this info?]
When do you expect this new Brooklyn Bus Depot will open in the next pick & what routes will be assigned there & what will the name of this depot be called.
I just told Jerry early Today what I heard about the New Depot. So please look it up so I don't have to type it again. OK.
There are NO new Depots,,,,100 St is closing,,woodside Maintenance Facility is Opening
--MTA Board Minutes
November 1999
Steve
I was spotting along Woodhaven Blvd today and to my amazement most of the 5500s that I saw except 5503, 5520, 5529 and 5544 had broken destination signs. Will they be fixed? I've put a post in the past about the specific Green Buses that have broken signs. Well, you can add 5504, 5507-5512, 5515-5517, 5522-5525, 5527, 5538 and 5543 to that list. Also 5520 is painted back in regular white scheme (when they first came out) from the back door to the rear right tail light. Probably was involved in an accident. Also, I rode 1155 on the Q60 rode like a turtle and the bell rung multiple times. 618 was smoking pretty bad. MCI 707 had what looked like a back door problem cause it was sticking out. On Saturday I rode 264 and it was making a bad grinding sound. 248 looked shot to tears- broken destination signs, a replacement door, back doors sticking out and smoking up. What is going on with this operation? They're a mess!!! And Triboro I don't think is much better either. For 3 reasons:
1. putting the 3000 EXPRESS coaches on the local routes- retiring some of the GMC RTS was a mistake if they're short on the local routes.
2. Saw 2060 with exterior graffiti on it. Hope the new painted buses don't receive this fate.
3. Anybody knows if 2136-2147 will return to Triboro after their conversion to diesel fuel? Cause right now 2137, 2139, 2143, 2145-2146 are o/s and are in Commmands Yard in Brooklyn. It'd be dum to get rid of 1994 buses.
BUT I do admit that Triboro is trying to improve, Green Lines is not even close to improvement. I hope the City buys Green Lines and then you'd see some improvements being made.
Q66#384Gary
The only express busses that Triboro,Green and Jamica Have are the classics with the single door. The rest are used as needed in local or express. Depends on the pullout time and the drivers prefrence. I have seen a bus used on a qm in the morning and on a local in the afternoon. It makes more sense to have buses that can be used as needed and not limited to just one type of service. So much for my 2 cents.
The only Queens private operator worth its weight is Jamaica Bus Lines. JBL has a very sharp looking fleet and tries to innovate its services (ex: Q113 Limited). Their 1985 and 1986 RTS's look to be in great condition, and they always seem to paint them every so often. Just today I saw a freshly painted RTS #532 with automatic rear doors as opposed to the NY-style rear doors. Their Grummans look tremendous, and are operated throughout the day and evening--not just on trippers. A couple even have roll signs. Great job by JBL.
--Mark
JBL always had a grat upkeep on there buses. They had a group of old looks they used at times and sent them to green just before the first rts (300s) came into service. They also had up to 1995 a couple of flxible new looks running(200s- 1971 models) As for green lines they are what one of there drivers call a welfare co. I rode the Q22 for four years and it was called the rolling junkyard by there mechaincs.If anybody did a takeover of green it could only improve it. Or bring down the co that takes it over. Tim
I am in total agreement with a NYCT takeover of Green Lines. To put it simply, THEY SUCK. They have sucked for years and as far as I am concerned they will always suck. It is a shame that people have to put up with such shoddy service. One question I have is WHY IS THERE NOT LIMITED SERVICE ON THE Q60???? Anyway, a TA takeover would be great with the former Green routes being split among JAM, CS, FP, ENY and FLA (for the Q21, Q22 and Q35). The TA should tear down their existing depot and rebuild a new one on the same site.
Didn,t I already say that(see past posting about GBL)
It seems that there is some type of manufacturing defect with the front destination signs on all recently delivered Orions. NYCT Orions also have destination signs that have failed. I believe it was mentioned somewhere that this is do to a poorly designed clamp or support for the sign.
-Hank
[It seems that there is some type of manufacturing defect with the front destination signs on all recently delivered Orions.]
I think "the problem" just applies to the 50 diesel Orion Vs that DOT took instead of MARTA (MARTA didn't have the cash for these last 50 on their order). Orion now uses a different Destination Sign mfg.
BTW, I understand that Green doesn't like their Orions. At this depot they don't seem to be much different then our CNGs.
Mr t__:^)
Thurston, I assume you mean WMATA (Washington, DC's operating authority) and not MARTA (which is Atlanta's).
I believe there have been previous posts on this, but I'm quite sure that WMATA rejected more than just the 50 Orions that wound up at Green Bus and Queens Surface. Red and Tan's operations at Newark Airport have quite a few in service as employee shuttles and Lot G/H shuttles. The operator of bus shuttles at Phoenix Airport (Arizona) has some.
[I assume you mean WMATA (Washington, DC's operating authority) and not MARTA (which is Atlanta's).]
Thanks for the correction my friend ! I sometimes get caught when I type first without FIRST verifing which one of the ...MTA... is Washington DC, Atalanta, Houston, etc.
BTW, at this depot we don't have a bad opinion about the Orion diesels, so .... if Green doesn't want them we would be glad to swap for some of our RTS fleet.
Mr t__:^)
Perhaps those decently good shaped RTS's that are about to go bye bye from QSC can be swapped to Green for their Orion's. I'm pretty sure QSC can resurrect them. BTW: Stand up job on the MCI overhauls!
The re-habs remind me of my days at Pan Am. A plane would come in, get torn all apart & magically get put back togather in a couple of weeks & look like new when she came out of the barn.
I'll pass your comments on to my maint. friend as I'm sure he'll appreciate the good words.
Mr t__:^)
What makes you think that Green doesn't like their Orions - have you spoken to any GBL employees? A bus is a bus. There are no manufacturers that make their own bus, they assemble bus systems made by other more specialized manufacturers into their bus body. GMC is the last manufacturer in the US to build their own transit coach.
BTW, don't speak for anyone but yourselves. Everyone is entiltled to an opinion, but don't spread rumors, it is destructive to all.
It's unfortunate that you didn't identify yourself. It would be valuable to know if you are a customer, or MTA/Green employee (suit/driver). I would guess you're a suit and won't comment further on how/why I said what I said.
If you're new to this site or one who views but almost never contributes, I encourage you to contribute. I've found it an educational experience ... more so because I'm willing to TALK to folks here that are customers as well as colleagues. I for one want to know "how are we doing" and am not afraid to take a chance and have a exchange with BusTalkers. You may have gathered that I like my job, I think it shows. I also like subways better then buses, but that's another matter.
Mr t__:^)
You guessed correctly, I do work for NYCT in a managerial capacity (central maintenance facility). I too find this site informational, however, I find it disturbing that people from within the transit family cast stones at one another. Although the private bus operators have disparities when comparing the individual operations (some are strong while others are weak), there is no need to insinuate that the managers at any one company are not doing their jobs. All operators have done and continue to do a tremendous job coping with the nearly unbearable conditions that have been brought on with the new fare structure.
I can appreciate the zestful enthusiasm that you have for your job and transit as a whole; take that energy and focus it into making our organizations better.
I hope that my comments above and those in the earlier posting are not viewed as hostile, we all have a difficult job and are doing our best to make the system to work.
I wish you, your family and all other members of this group a very happy holiday season.
[I too find this site informational, however, I find it disturbing that people from within the transit family cast stones at one another.]
I think some of this just "goes with the territory", i.e.
- Some here are customers who have had bad experiences. I have a dear SubTalk friend who likes to complain to me about our Q65A.
- Some here are buffs who know an awful lot of detail and want the equipment to look & run in factory new shape ... Would be nice.
- Some here are TWU members who have problems with the union, working conditions or their boss. I amoung others are quick to ask them to turn down the flame when they get out of hand, HOWEVER a civil debate on some of these issues can be very informative ... hopefully to a few "suits" who think they know everything about every thing ... I'm talking about those guys at Jay on the 13th floor.
- Some folks just like to debate issues. On SubTalk there are a handful who do it daily(Larry & Peter come to mind). I frequently read their comments.
I try to be factual/correct when I say something, whether it's about fare policy or what I've heard about a subject. I try NOT to throw stones, but don't see any harm in openly discussing political, contraversal, technical issues. Some times I'll not respond to a very specific question. Sometimes I don't think it's realy anyones business, sometimes I may pass a comment on to someone else within this company or DOT or TA and reply several days later IF I get a reply.
Botton line: this site is a place for give and take. If I don't give once in a while I can't expect to be given information I want. The learning has been good for me and the company. Sometimes the company gets their moneys' worth for this link that I use for a hour or so in the AM. The story I like to tell is: One day I received a FAX, the sect. thought it was official business & made copies for a couple of VPs here. Little did they know it was from a Token Booth Station Agent.
So fellow "suit" (I'm a small suit) I encourage you or anyone else who would like to talk to me off-line to do so. I cherish the "company" friends I've made at Jay Street, SI, etc. and would love to make a few more !
Mr t__:^)
Today I noticed RTS #4590 parked in front of Jamaica Depot with a curious sign: "BX51 FLUSHING/MAIN ST STA". Are there any plans for a new Bronx to Queens route or is the TA going to actually go through with a purchase of QS's QBx1 route.
I am curious,I know there is a Q50 Flushing Main St Station
Steve
The other destination on the Q50 is "PELHAM BAY". Looks QBx1-ish to me... There is no Co-op City sign though for the Q50. Maybe its the Bx51's other destination.
I agree with you
Q50 Pelham Bay to Flushing Main St
At this moment, in front of MTA HQ on Madison Ave, there is a massive union protest. Every time a TA bus goes buy, the chant of 'Shut it down' starts. That's a wonderful way to win public support, have a protest on a busy midtown street in the middle of the evening rush.
-Hank
Was the fat Larry Hanley out there eating twinkies in support of his sullen membership?
How long will it go on???!?!?!?!?!??
as an assistant steward in casey stengel maintanence, i am obviously in favor of anything
that will work to benifit the cause of the unions. i am a member of local 1056 atu. i've also survived the strike of 1980. i think a strike now is not in the best interest of labor. at this time we can bring management to their knees. all we have to do is follow the rule book that the ta gave us.
if we do that, nothing should role out of the depots. remember, safety first. all safety sensitive
defects should keep the buses in the house.
your opinions are welcome. i look forward to chating with all of you .
Its no different than any other group who protest during rush hours in New York, including the Sharptons, the gays, those protesting other nations civil rights etc, etc.
It always brings attention to the cause because now a lot more people are aware of the coming crisis.
No, it isn't any different, but consider how popular those groups are with the general public.
More people may now be aware of the situation, but how many new friends did the union make with that protest? How many new enemies?
Chuck
Just about the same amount my friend! If you took a poll I'll bet you that the same amount of folks would respond postively to any of the topics I listed and then some!
I am not a member of Local 100 but a SUPERVISOR of the majority in this LOCAL and I feel that not only them but ALL transit employees desrve a raise due to the large amount of CAVONS and CaCazots who ride the NYC transit now!!!!
Sure the union has a right to state its views. But you guys should have voted for the media campaign. As it is, if I was in charge of the TWU I'd have off duty personnel handing out flyers at the station entrances and bus stops, stating the union's case.
I would just like to know on where Woodside Maintainence Facility is located at.
Jerry, the Woodside Maintenance Facility is located on 54 St just south of Northern Blvd. Take either the G/R Train to Northern Blvd and walk down 54 St and right past the Amtrak El, it'll be on the left side.
Also the Q18 (from Triboro) and Q66 (from Queens Surface) Buses run right by there.
Q66#384Gary
What is happening on the Bronx artics? At least some of the ones spotted in Kingsbridge have the rear route displays flashing and some appear as bluish-green.
Additionally, why have some been retrofitted on the back interior wall with grey fabric instead of the standard black metal?
Sorry if these may have been answered; I'm new to this board.
JRC
The carpet can't be scratched by vandals, as the painted metal or fiberglas could. As for the blue-gree destination sign, it's on just about every bus out of Kingsbridge, and it looks very odd.
-Hank
Blue rear route signs have shown up on RTS's as well. I asw RTS#8038 with this blue rear sign. Maybe its a Bronx thing, like their rear numbers of most of their RTS having to be pasted on their rears because the number plates were being swiped.
Just heard from a friend in Queens who saw the same thing on the rear of an Orion. (green-blue sign, that is.)
There is also at least one Kingsbridge Artic with an interior camera. There are signs posted inside the bus, near the articulation, stating that "you may be on camera..."
JRC
I have a big question or favor to ask I was looking at a photo of the B27X route. i never heard of this route in my life until then. I have 3 VERY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS to ask:
1) b41 -is the civic center the equivilant of furman st. or cadman plaza
2)where did the KP buses other than the (except the 9) termiante before the mall opened?
3) the big one can anyone please list the former rout numbers that were used in brooklyn bus routes and where they operated to and between. I am incomplete without this info. thanks alot.
i can answer 2 of 3 right now.the B41 terminal "civic center"
is cadman plaza(by the post office&courts).
prior to kings plaza,here are the former route terminals that
date back to the days of street cars;
B41-FLATBUSH AV/AV U
B46-UTICA AV/AV N
B9--FLATBUSH AV/AV L
as far as i can tell,prior to 1968,there was no B2 or B78.it seems
that those lines were created to serve kings plaza.in my next
message,i'll try to give you bus and trolly routes dating back
to the 1930's.i think i have a listing in one of my books.
stand by!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANDY/UP
Andy the B2 has been around a very long time. I have family who live inthe marine park area since the late 1940's. the B2 was there even then.
The B 2 Has been around since before WWII. It always terminated at The E 16th St Brighton Line, the old Terminal was at Ave U and Flatbush, but during Rush Hours some only went as far as Ave S and Flatbush.
based on the street car map i have from the 1930's,the B2 did
not exist before ww2.it most likely began service somewhere between
1947-1951.that is when flatbush depot started converting their
street car routes to bus routes.
ANDY/UP
I remember the B 2 Ave R back in 47. It was always a Bus Route
According to the Brooklyn Bus History that was in the Motor Coach Magazine the B-2 was taken over by Brooklyn Bus from an independent company in 1931. It opearted only between Flatbush/Avenue U and the old Rockaway Ferry at the end of Flatbush Ave . In 1936 the route was extended to the Kings Highway/E. 16th St BMT Station and designated Flatbush Ave-Ave R.
This can be the reason that the route did not appear on a Brooklyn Street Map of the 1930 era
thanks for clearing that up,barry.i felt kind of foolish when all
the responses came back about the B2.having worked at flatbush depot
and worked the B2,i should have been better versed in the lines
history.and yes,i am using the book "BROOKLYN TROLLEYS" as reference.
ANDY/UP
this is to andy at ulmer park:
I found a list at GCT of the old route signs. it shows what routes used to come from UP. It only shows local routes, but i dont know the year. I'll list the routes and let me know what year its from:
B1
B4
B5
B6
B8
B9
B21-discontinued
B34-discontinued
B36
B64
B68
B74
Believe it or not back in the 50s when Ulmer Park had the Mack 6000 series. the B 11 and 37 Also ran from that Depot, but the 68 36 and 64s ran out of Coney Island (West 5th and Surf Ave) because they ran old look GMCs 4000 series. And the B 5 kept switching back and forth to Flatbush
there was a garage at coney island? where was it? when did it open/close?
The Garage at Coney Island, was at West 5th and SeaView ave, which runs between Surf Ave, and Brighton Beach Ave. It is where the Coney Island and Mc Donald Ave Trolleys Turned around. It closed in the early or mid 60s and it is now occupied by Brightwater Tower Apts and Condos . It was not too big. The following routes ran out of it, even after the trolleys were gone. B21, 36, 68, 64, 74, and 49. All used 4000 GMC 1949 Old Looks. I think they were TDH 4509 or 10s
i believe they were numbered 4000-4499. they also ran out of 5th ave as i rode them on the b16. they probably ran in other boroughs too.they were much smaller than gms in the 4600 series that ran out of eny along with mack 5000 series.
The 4000-4499 were 43 passenger busses 4509 or 10 the 4500-4599 were 510? and help 49 seats. Both were built in 1949. Coney Island, 5th Ave and Crosstown had the 45 series busses. East NY had most of the 5105s(I am not sure of the model) somewhere else had them too, because they used to run on the B39 line. I think some ran in Staten Island along with some older C47 Macks. My memory is vague we are talking about over 40 years ago
There were 400 buses in the larger series, 4500-4899. I believe most of them originally ran in Queens.
Old Look GMC in Queens at that Time were in the 2000 series, all 4000s were in Brooklyn and Staten Island
Does any body remember Bx54 in the early 80s & why the route discontinued???
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
I have an old bus map. I think it ran with the Bx5. I do not know why it was discontinued..............
B46M Limited
Purdy and Castle Hill to Story and White Plains
looks like the mid 1970's.i have a map from 1974.in my next
response,i'll give you the headways.
ANDY/UP
those up lines are from my 1974 brooklyn bus map.here are the
headways(weekday) that are on the back of the map;
B1-86 ST/25 AV 8AM-20 12N-20 5PM-20 9PM-30 2AM-60
ORIENTAL BL
B4-HARWAY/25 AV 8AM-14 12N-18 5PM-14 9PM-20 2AM-N/S
NARROWS AV
B5-CANAL AV 8AM-4 12N-6 5PM-6 9PM-14 2AM-60
FLATBUSH AV
B6-BAY 38 ST 8AM-4 12N-6 5PM-4 9PM-10 2AM-60
COZINE AV
B8-VA HOSPITAL 8AM-7 12N-8 5PM-7 9PM-12 2AM-55
E83/FOSTER AV
B9-SHORE RD 8AM-9 12N-11 5PM-9 9PM-18 2AM-NN/S
FLATBUSH AV
B21-ORIENTAL BL 8AM-15 12N-16 5PM-15 9PM-16 2AM-30
KNAPP ST
B34-HARWAY/25 AV 8AM-5 12N-10 5PM-5 9PM-10 2AM-60
SHORE RD
B36-SURF/W37 ST 8AM-4 12N-8 5PM-3 9PM-15 2AM-25
NOSTRAND AV
B36S-SEAGATE 8AM-12 12N-15 5PM-12 9PM-15 2AM-25
B64-STILLWELL AV 8AM-8 12N-13 5PM-8 9PM-15 2AM-60
86 ST/4 AV
B68-SURF/W5 ST 8AM-5 12N-7 5PM-5 9PM-10 2AM-60
PROSPECT PK
B74-CANAL/W37 ST 8AM-6 12N-8 5PM-6 9PM-12 2AM-20
STILLWELL AV
coming soon; since there seems to be so much intrest about
crosstown,i will post it's lines and headways from 1974.
ANDY/UP
I Hate Busses. They suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then don t ride them and don t use this web
I'll take the B27X question. The B27X is designated the X27 today. In the NYCTA's early days of express bus service it's routes had the borough prefix (like local routes) and an "X" suffix that indicated it was an express route. Later all express routes lost the lost the borough prefix and was replaced by the "X' prefix. I think the X prefix (X28) is a good idea to identify express buses, but I think the old designation (S13X) is more informative.
Wayne
The B78 was started in 1962 or 1963. I went to Meyer Levin JHS and remember the excitement when we saw the "Ralph Avenue Bus". I do not know the terminals but the sign said "B78 Mill Avenue" in the front windshield.
The B-78 ran from Mill Ave/Ralph Ave to Sutter Ave Station. It was later extended to Kings Plaza in the early 70's
when i used to live in mill basin(1974-1978) the b78 didnt run on sundays or holidays and ran infrequently during the week and saturdays. i think it was 1989 that it began runnig on sundays.
i stand corrected on the subject of the B78 and B2.i should not
have used kings plaza as a reference point.anyway,here's something
everyone will find interesting.it is a listing of the "original"
brooklyn surface routes and their respective depots.don't ask for
too many details as this stuff dates back to the 1930's(street cars).
some routes will be familar,some will not.many of the depots were
closed in the 1940's.
RIDGEWOOD DEPOT
-------------------
52-GATES AV 54-MYRTLE AV(B'KLN) 55-MYRTLE AV(QNS) 56-UNION AV
EAST NEW YORK DEPOT
--------------------
24-BROADWAY 25-FULTON ST 27-JAMACA AV 39-WILLAMSBURG BRIDGE
CANARSIE DEPOT
---------------
8-CHURCH AV 9-ROCKAWAY PKWY 10-ROCKAWAY AV 11-RALPH AV 14-WILSON
MASPETH DEPOT
--------------
53-METROPOLITAN AV 57-FLUSHING AV 59-GRAND ST
FRANKLIN AV DEPOT
-----------------
47-FRANKLIN AV 48-LORIMER ST
FLATBUSH DEPOT
--------------
41-FLATBUSH AV 41B-AV N 44-NOSTRAND AV 46-UTICA AV 49-OCEAN AV
9 AVE DEPOT
-----------
13-CHURCH AV 36-SURF AV 38-WEST END 63-CONEY IS AV 67-7 AV
71-UNION ST 72-SMITH ST 73-NORTONS PT 77-15 ST
58 ST DEPOT
-----------
28-ERIE BASIN 30-8 AV 31-86 ST 32-5 AV 33-HAMILTON AV
34-BAY RIDGE AV 37-3 AV
CROSSTOWN DEPOT
----------------
15-CROSSTOWN 16-GRAHAM AV 19-NASSAU AV
HALSEY ST DEPOT
---------------
26-PUTNAM AV
BERGEN ST DEPOT
---------------
2-BERGEN ST 3-SUMNER AV 5-ST JOHNS PL 7-TOMKINS AV 29-MEEKER AV
FRESH POND DEPOT
----------------
50-BUSHWICK 58-FLUSHING/RIDGEWOOD
that should keep bustalk busy for awhile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANDY/UP
Great job!!! I'm looking forward to reading the reminiscences about the closed depots (so many of them,) and the changes in route # as well as those routes that have disappeared or been combined.
The Book Brooklyn Trolleys is a great reference, it also has a old trolley map and line roster in the back
Saw this RTS on the Bx2 last night, heading in service, southbound, near Bedford Pk. What I like about this order of RTS's is the unique (to NYCTA/ MABSTOA) light fixtures; look like early subway car fixtures. Also, they give off a very soft "pinkish" glow, instead of the harsh white of typical flourescent lights.
I found out that at least two buses from this series are now in Kingsbridge. Great! I like these.
What a sad commentary on the bus scene when we can get excited over an RTS interior lights!
JC
I like those fixtures also. 8751 also has those light fixtures as well as the 1994 RTS's (8600-8703). I 've also been seeing the occasional RTS on the Bx-1/2.
Wayne
From what I understand the old two stroke DD engines has a very narrow torque band. Do drivers have to downshift the transmission when going up hill or starting up? How about the new DDs? I sure that they have pretty much flat torque curve. I really like to see a DD 6V-71 climb a hill while full of passengers.
Until the 1977 Flxible 53102-6-1 came along NYCTA buses' gear selector had only 3 positions: Drive, neutral and reverse. I've seen with the 1977 Flxibles (9000-9309) select a lower gear very few times. Those buses with the 6V-71's were pretty slow at climbing hills and even worse with passengers. I remember them well.
Wayne
Plenty of the old DD 6V71's climbed hills. I remember the oneon the old BX20 on Kingsbridge Road west of University Avenue in the old fishbowls. It was slow, but they made it.
In those days, you couldn't downshift transmissions. You could only put them in forward, neutral, or reverse. So it was just scream up the hill with the transmission in "forward" and it would stay in first gear (fluid drive) until it hit around 26 m.p.h. then it went to second (direct drive).
Yes they did, but again they weren't too swift. I know the hill you speak of on the BX20 (now BX9). I used to ride the BX20 to school and when the bus was crowded it took a long time to make it up that hill.
Wayne
I think the 6V-71's main problem was more the transmission and axle ratio as well as govenors than the engine itself. I've seen 40 foot buses with 6V-71's that were quite powerful and others that a crawling baby could pass.
A few mechanics I know have told me that if the engine has good compression and it doesn't seem to move the bus well more than likely it's a transmission governor problem with the settings. Some axle ratio's can also slow the bus down as well.
I'm not 100% sure but that's what a few mechanics I know have told me.
RDChilds
That does make sense because NYCTA seemed to be incredibly slow, but others were quite fast. NJT (TNJ) had plenty of GM fishbowls with the 6V-71N (manual transmissions) and they were quite fast - but then again - I've never been a a NJ Transit bus that wasn't fast. Also recently I paced a WMATA Flxible 530096-6-1 at 57 MPH. And of course let's not forget about those awesome (with 6V-71N engines) 1971 Flxibles that were at Jamaica Buses as well as the suburban fishbowls at NYBS and Liberty Lines. Most of NYBS' had the 6V-71 engine.
Wayne
I once drove a T6H4521A that had a 6V71 and two-speed (VS9) transmission -- the mechanic at our agency was always palying around with this bus, and he said they "advanced the engine timing" on it. That thing could beat cars across an intersection when a light turned green. Fastest one I've ever driven.
A friend in San Diego owns a T6H5307N with the 6V71 and two-speed and says it will do 64 mph tops. It originally came from Oakland, CA; perhaps they used different rear-end gearing to achieve this top speed.
I was looking at the photo gallary of buses and there is apic on the 9 at riis. i was wondering is there any evidence like bus stops signs or any thing around to say it was around. and here is my big question considering that in the summer alot of people go to the beach - why did the ta cut BOTH the 46 and 9 service to the beach -is there any info to see if there is a fight to get something like a 41 or 2 or anything to returnto the beach ( Q 35 can't cut it alone-sorry)
i had a run on the B46 in the summer of 1985 that went to riis.
i remember low ridership to riis pk.i think this was the last year
the ta ran that service.i don't see it coming back.
ANDY/UP
It seems everywhere i turn on bustalk, ulmer park keeps losing routes and gets nothing back in return. is this politics, or that bklyn diviosn thinks ulmer park cant do the work. look at what ulmer park has now and what they are losing:
Now-B1,B3,B4,B6(split with Flatbush),B36,B64,B74,B82(split ENY),X28,X29.
1/00 pick-B1,B3,B4,B6,B36,B64,B74,X25,X27,X28,X29.
my choice for ulmer park:B1,B3,B4,B6,B31,B36,B64,B68,B74,X25,X27,X28,X29.
if asomeone can give me a reason why ulmer park isnt getting the b68 back or any local runs, i would appreciate it. Getting new buses to the depot is a loong shot anyway.
have nay of you crossed the country in a greyhound bus????
what are your likes dislikes of this ????
i rode from california to new york !!!!!!
both bad and good stories to tell what are yours ???
How many times times did your driver almost fall asleep because of ridiculous employee scheduling???
This is one of my favorite topics. I've never gone
cross country on Greyhound. That would be beyond my
ability to endure. I've made about 15 or 20 trips
from NYC to Florida, which is a 26 hour ride. I've
been fascinated by Greyhound for a long time, which
makes the ride easier. I try to sit up front, and
enjoy watching the road and the driver. The run
from NYC to Florida is like an old friend. I know
the stops and stations that they make.
But to go cross country, which I imagine is 3 days
or so, is overwhelming. I'd be curious about your
experience doing it. Did you make the return trip
also? Are you interested in Greyhound? There is a
club on yahoo that is starting up slowly about
Greyhound. clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/greyhoundbuslines
Were you on a thru express, one that went straight through without having to change buses? Having to make connections along the way is one of the horrors of riding Greyhound for me. How do you feel about Greyhound now, after having made the trip?
Back in 1975, I went cross country by Trailways. I was a colleg kid going to visit my Brother in Los Angeles. I left from New York City.
The experience can't be that all far off from what it would be like today other than that I was mostly on Eagle 05 equipment rather than MCI.
The adventure started with boarding at Port Authority in NYC and finding my fellow passengers were soldiers on leave. I was a freshman college student on winter break. We shared quite a bit of drink and that was probably the high point of the trip.
Next morning the soldires got off some place in Ohio and I continued on to LA via Dallas. The ride through Mosouri wasn't so bad but by the time we were passing through Tyler TX, I was wondering if I could stand the rest of the ride. There aint much place to go in a bus and only so much reading you can do or looking out the window before you've had just about enough.
Two days and part of two nights later - were in Dallas. Midpoijnt of the trip. I remember getting some of the most tasteless fruit I had ever eaten in the bus terminal and wishing I could get some decent food in me. But - I had a 45 minute layover and departure was on time.
I was in for a lesson on the size of Texas. It's really big. It took hours to reach Dallas from Tyler. And then leaving Dallas, we were headed for El Paso. We drove through the night and into the next day
on Interstate 10 passing signes indicating things like 178 miles to next gas or 75 miles to next rest stop.
I cold see the Rockies approaching - for hours and hours. It seemed like we'd never get there. At one point, I walked forward to stretch my legs and to get away from the drone of the maxed out Detroit Diesel 8V71 in the back and I glanced up front at the drivers speedo - which was pegged at 85MPH. It had been apparently for hours.
In something beyond forever, we reached Needles California - having passed through New Mexico and Arizona in the night. But there was still a half day to go before we got into LA. Needles was a 15 minute rest stop with still more rotten food.
I arrived needing ruffage (sitting four days and three nights does interesting things to the digestive system) and with severe back pain.
I shortened the return trip by taking a more Northerly route.
So if you do go cross country - figure on bringing some food of your own. Bus stoip food is in my experience - typically rancid.
If possible - break up your trip so you never spend more than a day at a time on the bus. My trip was painful due to the lengthy time of riding without much of a way to excercise.
Dont count on seeing much of the countryside. Cross country buses take the interstates and it's not like travelling route 66 these days.
Here's one for you, Salaamallah: Two years ago I attended the Motor Bus Society convention, held that October in Cincinnati. I decided to 'hound it both ways. Going down was a joy. Great driver, night bus to sleep on, enjoyable stops for food, rests, etc. Arrived at the destination in good time. (Local bus to my motel was fun, too. Another story!)
Now, coming back was something else. This is long so here goes.
After the convention ended Sunday afternoon, I was scheduled to leave on a bus that originated somewhere else, due in somewhat later. I was early enough to catch an earlier bus, but as it came in from somplace else, I forget where,it was already crowded. Fine. It was filled, but bearable. Now, it seems, all those buses had to stop in Cleveland, giving us a slight lay-over. When we returned to the bus, several people ahd joined the line for this bus. I seemed to remember that if a bus is crowded G'hound will pull out another. I was ALMOST right.
As I was one of the last people getting on, I decided to wait to see if another section would come around. When nothing appeared, I adked the driver about it. He said that because one or two seats still were vacant, he could not ask for the back up. But another scheduled bus was leaving in about an hour. Then he said I'd have just a few seconds to make up my mind about waiting. Me, the smart ass, decided to wait. That bus left at around 9 p.m.
Sure enough, the net bus appeared, packed. It came from Detroit. I asked the driver if there was room on his bus and if he could issue me a continuation ticket, as per the previous driver's instructions. No was, he said. He was fully packed. Now, this time another bus was put into service and was due to leave almost immediately after this crowded one. Some people jumped off, too. I forgot what time the bus left, but the back up did not arrive until midnight. Reason: no driver could be found to take it. I remember seeing the terminal manager, a very sweet youn lady, debating with drivers, to no avail.
After a long time, she was on the phone with someone. Later, she announced that a driver would be along soon. Again, another eternity seemed to pass before this female driver arrived, obviously very "peed" off.
Now, as she is prepping the bus, several times she got off and marched across the terminal to discuss whatever with other drivers and the terminal manager. Looked like arguing!
She returns to the bus to find some very frustrated and tire passengers. One guy begins to swear. This escalated into a shouting match, with the driver refusing to take the bus. She will NOT be sweared at, and we could all wait for the next scheduled bus at 7 a.m. Then she gathers her bag and goes stroming off, only to be cut off by a secirity guard and terminal manager. After much persuasion,
she comes bach and demands that the swearer be removed. He's with a young woman, who is very pregnant. No matter. They had to be removed and placed on a local bus to NY via Pittsburg.
Finally, it seemed we were going on our way. The driver looks in her manual and says I can't take this bus out; its defective. She shows the manual to the terminal manager and points out the problem: the seat was not adjustable or something. At that the manager orders her to get a bus from out back and continue. This took about another 15 minutes. Final departure 3 a.m.
During the trip, whenever she had to announce something, like rest or dinner stop, the driver would mumble things that were not clear.
n spite of that, she did a great job handling that MCI coach and got us in to PABT less than the 9 hours allotted.
Sorry for the long story; hope that helps you.
JRC
I would just like to know on how many 1999 MCI buses have arrive along with there seriel numbers.
In addition, when are the 3 New Flyer Viking Over-the-Road Coaches will start arriving at Yukon.
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If you never got around to taking a photo of one of Queens Surface GMC RTS buses better make a note to yourself. Currently there are only 28 left on the active roster (incl. some -04 & -06 models). This will mean that our oldest local started life in Queens in November of 1993 (MCIs date back to 1988). The new Orions CNGs are continuing to arrive (about a dozen are in the yard getting fluid changes, thorough inspection by our staff & DOT, and application of our logo). So it won't be long before our fleet will consist of just TMC-RTS, MCI Classics & Orion Vs.
Numbers to look for:
-04 = 27, 33, 209, 216, 225, 234, 240 & 241
-06 = 43, 46, 47, 48, 51, 52, 53, 245 thru 274
Mr t__:^)
Thurston,
It was also be the first time (that I know of) the entire QS fleet will be 102 inch wide buses.
Wayne
Now you're realy getting technical :-)
Mr t
I was just wondering why did Queens Surface paint over or remove the side roller curtain signs???
Thanks.
If anything, instead of scrapping them, Queens Surface should give their 96 inch RTS's to Green Lines since the Queens Surface RTS"s are in better condition then the ones from Green Lines. Did Queens Surface by the way ever have 102 inch wide RTS's from the 1980's???
All of their RTS were 96 inch wide models until the 1994 Novas were delivered. Some people may remmeber that Queens Transit and Steinway Transit used to have 1 each of the (slopeback) RTS II-03's years ago. I think they were numbered 1 & 2. These are not to be confused with those that were borrowed from Liberty Lines a couple of years ago. Maybe Thurston can get some info on them.
Wayne
The 16 Slope Backs we borrowed from Liberty Lines were mfg as -03 in 1979. I think they were called RTS IIs vs. -02. The s/n we had on them were 177 thru 192. A few were still making money for us last Christmas.
The OTHER Slope Backs had nothing on the back, ours had an add-on A/C unit, but the sloping back was very much in evidence. Inside were hard plastic blue seats. 177 was one of the last here & she was still in rather good shape. I heard Liberty was going to save her.
Mr t__:^)
I used to see the Queens Transit and Steinway Transit RTS-II -03's on the express runs I believe. What types of seats did they have and where did they end up because I believe that Queens Transit and Steinway transit got rid of them rather quickly. Who had bus no.1 and who had bus no. 2?????
Yes, I suspect that numbers 1 & 2 left a long time ago. I only saw them on express runs. Steinway had #1 and Queens Transit had #2. I never did ride them, but I'd guess that had cushioned seats like every other Steinway/Queens Transit bus at that time.
Wayne
QS MCI 918 is back in service from it's overhaul. Also saw new additions 418-419 today on the QM1. I'm sad to see that the GMC RTS will go. I think they should keep buses 270-274 around because thses buses still in good operating condition. But it's time to let out the old and let in the new.
Q66#384Gary
Please understand that the quantity of buses that we're allowed to have is set by DOT. It shouldn't surprise anyone to know that we need to get the new ones in service as soon as they arrive, just in case of a warranty problem. This forces us to "retire" RTS coaches that granted still have a lot of miles left in them. Will some of them end up a Green or Triboro ... wouldn't be a bit surprised.
Mr t__:^)
Hello,
Can anyone help with providing information on current fleet rosters for the Coach USA companies running in the New York area (including vehicles used on Transit type work)??
Thanks in advance
Richard Stedall
Buses Worldwide US & Canada sub-editor
www.busesworldwide.org
Me too.
Please let me know what you see,,write it down,,,I need to know the EXACT Reading---verbatim
Route Number First Line
Second line
3rd Line
Thanks
Steve
914 668 9218
You should see these ,shortly ,,please feel free to call me ,,,COLLECT ,,if you see them (the signs)
Thank you
Steve
FDNY
saw #2611 on the M103 this afternoon with Manhattanville sticker on it. I know the bus used to come from 126th. when did they get rid of it? looks too new to be reomved
Having read previous posts that Jamaica Bus Lines still had some Flxible 870's in their fleet, I figured that I better get over there and take a few pictures before the buses are disposed of. I parked at the edge of the property and walked into the garage very slowly and cautiously. I had read from other B-T er's that NYC Transit could arrest you for tresspassing. A mechanic asked if he could help me. I explained that I wanted to take some pictures and he said "sure, just be careful"..The mechanics I shmoozed with couldn't have been nicer. One said that if they weren't busy they would have moved some equipment for me. I explained that I'm a bus fan and not a professional photographer. They have about 10 870's in the yard and several MCI Classics. Most of the equipment is RTS. They are so well kept that a casual person couldn't tell the new stuff from the old.
They have a GMC Fishbowl in a suburban configuration. Its parked in a different section of the property. Its in the area where the drivers park their cars. He explained that the bus is owned by Mr. Cooper and is used when many of the drivers have to attend an event such a funeral. He claimed that DOT gets bent out of shape if you use one of their buses for other than revenue service.
I told him that I had seen GBL #5507 this AM on Q-60 with a non-functioning destination sign. He said that its not unusual because of the design. Apparently the wiring shorts out. He also said that at one time GBL was one of the top companies in the nation as far as maintenance, but doesn't know what happened. He said that JBL mechanics are covered by a different union.
i was told that by a driver from triboro that while most of the private lines are run by mr. cooper, it is operated by a different union. this could be why certain runs are covered by different depots. did you ask why JBL didnt get orions or if they are ever getting newere buses? please respond.
Simon, unfortunately the thought didn't enter my mind since I two more stops to make. The mechanics were very pleasant and I'm sure if you stop by when its not busy maybe they can provide an answer.
Meaney's bus page (I can't find the link!) lists the locations and stories of all the TA and OA bus depots. Does anybody know of, or can post a similar list?
Thank you
I would like to know on when the 3 New Flyer "VIKING" Over-the-Road cosches will start arriving at Yukon Bus Depot.
They are supposed to be arriving sometime around thanksgiving (like now!!!)
Peace Out
-Clayton
actually according to past posts they were due as early as 8/16/99. they still have not arrived. as i work in yukon ill let everyone know as soon as they do arrive.
Do any of my fellow Operators know the likely fate of 1933. I saw this bus late last week at Westside, and the frame seemed to be intact. The engine had bottomed out, and apparently the drive and tag axles were cracked.
Signed
22***
1933 struck a broken manhole cover (a ConEd juction box cover, of the type responsible for killing a horse last winter) which resulted in serious damage to the drive and tag axles (both bent) I assume it will eventually be sent out for serious repair work. I also think that ConEd should be covering the repair. Just to make a note, this occured a few eeks ago on a Friday. The following Tuesday, the cover was still not fixed.
-Hank
I would like to know on how many buses served Crosstown Bus Depot before it closed in late 1981 & why did Croostown ceased as a operating depot.
All this talk about Crosstown!!!! We need a special Crosstown FAQ in a conspicuous location. Why doesn't anybody talk about West Farms as much?
I don't know how many buses were at Crosstown when it closed, but in the late 1950's, when the last old look series arrived at the TA (9000-9120), just about all of them were assigned to Crosstown and Crosstown had no other buses. Thus, the answer then was 121, or slightly less. I recollect that for awhile, a few of the highest numbered in that series (9120 and a few below that) were at Flatbush depot, but I believe all 121 eventually wound up at Crosstown until replaced by 1963 new look GM's in the 3700's and low 3800's (plus about 40 old look buses numbered 4500 to approx. 4539).
The last buses I remember at X-town were the 9000 series Flexibles and the 8000 series Fishbowls(with the Bus-a-ramas on the side)
Any of the SI'ers out there know how many runs there are on the 1X and 10X Saturday and Sunday???
I noticed an MCI in Manhattan late Saturday afternoon showing run 84 on the 1X and later another working run 116 on the 1X. Now I think we all know that there is nowhere close to the weekday level of service on the SI X lines. I figure maybe there are 10-15 runs on each line each day and some trips covered by Miscellaneous runs (3XX). So whats the reason for the high run numbers??
The run numbers match te weekday runs like the OA.
The MTA website finally has the x1 and x10 schedules online in pdf format, so go to -
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/bus/schedule/pdf/x001.pdf
and-
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/bus/schedule/pdf/x010.pdf
Even though the Queens bus map lists 24 hour service on both branches, when I was recently on Braddock Avenue, the Guide-A-Ride sign showed NO 24 hour service. In fact, Sunday morning service doesn't begin till after 9AM.
The Queens bus map shows a loop during off-hours, with the Q1 going only in one direction: East on Braddock Avenue, West on Jamaica Ave. and North on Springfield Blvd.
It makes sense to follow that loop nights and weekends when service is spotty. But the Guide-A-Ride doesn't say anything about loop service, or that riders who want to go in either direction should stand at bus stops on the south side of Braddock Av.
Who's right...the Queens bus map or the Guide-A-Ride?
By the way, does anyone have any story about why this relatively insignificant route become the "Q1"?
Reggie
nh153@mail.com
According to the Route sheets,,there is a Loop service ,,so I guess the Queens Map is correct
Steve
A couple of questions...
Is the run number the number in the box in the lower right hand part of the windshield?
And does the driver change the run number every time he/she gets to it's terminal?
Yes the run number is in the lower right corner of the windshield but it is only changed when the operator gets relieved.
So you're saying for the whole day it stays the same?
The run number is unique to the operator...
You may see the same guy all day with the same number in the window for the entire day.
There is actually another number(s).
- Route number, e.g. Q25
- Destination Sign Code Number, there are several per route, basically they relate to N/S or E/W (the farebox & sign CAN use the same number)
- Run number, e.g. for Q25 it might be 201
- Trip number, each time the driver reaches the end of his/her run the number changes from odd to even.
Clear as mud ? Aren't you glad you asked ?
Mr t__:^)
For those who may be interested, the Rockland Coach (Red and Tan) timetables are the only ones I know of in the New York metropolitan area that show the run numbers on them. Most of the runs are on the same route all day, although some of them do change from one route to another. If you want their timetables, you can call them at (201) 384-2400.
This is how is work,
For Example Run #5/42 Report 5:44am Pull Out 5:54am
First half he made 10 trips until 11:30pm & second half he start at 1:40 & made 4 trips until 3:47 than pull into depot at 4:00 than clear at 4:10pm. he took 2 hour break between 11:30 to 1:30
Now do you got it???????
Each individual driver on a given bus route has a run #. That driver is responsible to have the number in the signbox. When that driver goes to lunch (gets relieved), the next driver puts his run # into the box. When the original driver relieves someone else after his lunch, he once again inserts his run number into his new bus. In most cases in the TA, the higher the run #, the more jobs that line has, excluding the split depot services.
My 2 cents worth. For years (until the early 1980's) MABSTOA buses used this box to display the route number. Since it only has 3 places the The Bronx buses would use X and the number. Ex: BX38 was displayed as X38.
Wayne
The box is still used if the main sign is not functioning.
-Hank
It makes sense to do so, but a malfunctioning sign seems to be rare these days.
Wayne
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Just about every new Orion I see has a malfunctioning sign. I believe this is a manufacturing defect.
-Hank
Another thing is that the NYCTA definitely was more serious about the run number box than MABSTOA because - They actually installed them in older buses that were delivered without the boxes. MABSTOA did not install the run number boxes in their older buses.
Wayne
To Trolleybus,
Since you work at Yukon Bus Depot, I heard that Yukon was going to be an all Orion & MCI bus depot, if that is true, what depot will the remaining 1987 & 1991 RTS buses at Yukon be going to like.
1)4873-4888 Express bus fleet, 2)4892-4899 Local bus fleet &
3)8293-8316 & 8318 Local bus fleet.
I would like to know if you happen to have the updated desination reading signs for Yukon Bus Depot for local & express routes along with future readings. If so, can you post it on bustalk.
Jerry,Jerome,Sarand,Michael,Mike,,I have POSTED these signs numerous and recently
Please read the Bustalk -CAREFULLY
You keep posting under various names,,however,,your writing style is Identical,,,We spoke of this before
Steve
Do you know that MTA buses have three or more diffirent Height??? Here is the height for Standard buses for RTS & Orion is 10 feet, Articulated buses is 11 feet, & MCI buses is 11 feet, 5 inches. I want to know what height is New Flyer C40LF CNG?? because without CNG i believe is 11 feet & with CNG i believe is maybe 12 feet. If the MTA put New Flyer C40LF or Orion CNG buses in the Bronx & don't forget the EL because most of EL in the bronx are low clear. Most of EL have 11 feet or more. I don't think MTA should not put CNG buses in the bronx because of low height of EL. So what do you think?
I was in Queens on Saturday for the first time in quite awhile, and noticed the sign on Triboro Coach's terminal near Broadway and Roosevelt Avenue in Jackson Heights warning that no CNG buses could enter the terminal because of the low clearance. I wonder whether this is a factor at all in the current shipment of potential Triboro CNG transit buses being diverted to Queens Surface.
I believe there's been a post or two speculating that Coliseum may be built as a CNG depot. I suspect someone will check all the el clearances before Bronx routes are assigned to Coliseum.
No, it has more to do with explosion proofing the building & upgrading the filling station, i.e. capacity.
Mr t__:^)
To FDNY,
I don't know what you are talking about, I AM NOT JEROME, SARAND, MIKE or MICHAEL. This is the first time that I started to post messages on bustalk & I didn't know that you had this problem before with these names so please don't excuse me of those names because I am not any of those people.
Jerry
What signs do you need,,,I had alot of problems with these guys ,posting on the same name,and your writing style was identical
If you look under previous postings,,,I have the entire thing that you need,,posted
Steve
Rode this bus this morning on the Q60 and I found out that it's ex-Command 381. Well, they should've used another bus in Command Yard as 658 cause this bus is junk. The back door interlock would not work and when the master switch was ignited, then both the front and back doors didn't work so people had to push the front doors in order to get off. And on top of that, the bus was "bouncing" when it was riding. And what amazes me is that they have buses that are 20 years old still in service.
MM2000
Can anyone advise of exact routing details in the Financial District ,,,from Water St heading Westbound to Rector St,,,and and Back to Water
Thanks for your assistance,again
Steve
This is the South Route---Note
I think there's info on the NYU website.
Very vague info,on the site
Thanks
Steve
I rode the nes local CNG Orions from QS this morning on the Q-65a. They are so much better than their express counterpart since there is plenty of leg room. Your knees are not pressed up against the seat in fromt of you and it is easy to move around. The express Orions are the biggest insult to the riders of Queens: less forward facing seats then the other busses which unfortunately are super uncomortable and cheap seats to begin with. Wheelchair accessibility is not an issue since Liberty Lines and New York Bus Service both run nice MCI classis which have all the best passenger amenities plus wheelchair lifts. The NYCDOT was being cheap and bought cheap pieces of shit for the express riders of Queens.
Yeah, and the TA also runs Orions in express service, with wheelchail lifts and the most comfortable seats imaginable for a city express bus.
And they moved on up to new MCIs, while the DOT moved down from the MCIs.
Having plenty of experience riding those *wonderful* CNG Orion DOT Express buses, I can say you can indeed get comfortable if you find the right seats and if and only if the bus isn't full, otherwise, as we New Yorkers say, fuggeddaboudit.
Hints: If you're over 5'9" and 160#:
1-Forget about the forward facing seats except for the set right before the rear exit door. The left side forward facing seats aren't too bad.
2-Pick your seat mate carefully...big person and small person next to you will be a much happier commute for both of you.
3-Rear forward facing seats over the motor: fuggeddaboudit.
4-Side seats:forget about the front "senior" seats. Go for the ones on the left side after the wheelchair sets. The first one after the wheelchair set can be comfortable if you resign yourself to having only one thigh on the cushion.
How sad is it that I can actually recount this....
I've ridden our Orion CNGs a few times to the city & also caught a MCI a time or two. The ride was OK and I was able to get caught up on some "trade" magazine reading too.
If I had to do it on a daily basis maybe I wouldn't be so complementary.
Mr t__:^)
If anybody has what EX-Commands that GBL buses 623-658 are, please email it to me. All I know is that 641 uses to be command 393 and 658 used to be 381. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
MM2000
Someone please helpme on this one. On the MTA bus roster, where it lists what buses are at what depots, it saiys #4602 is at Ulmer Park. I know that bus is from Gleason, but do not know if this is a "dead" bus in for repair(as #3160 is) or its there because Ulmer Park is getting the 4600's and removing the #3600's and #3700's. Please let me know.
yes,4602 is at ulmer park along with 4710,4643,and 4630.they
are all dead except 4643.we just got 4027 and 4052 last night
from gleason.both in running condition.i think they will be going
right into service out of ulmer.
ANDY/UP
I just from a friend not long ago but didn't get the whole information that NYCT was looking at a third bus route between Brooklyn & Staten Island but it would have operated between the College of Staten Island to Bay Ridge.
If anyone has any information regarding this new bus route that might be considered in the future, please post on bustalk.
THere was talk of this route to the College,a variation of the S78,,sort of
At this time,,there are no immediate plans,,,in the new future,at least until 2001 or 2002
Steve
1969 Brooklyn-Staten Island (This may not come too cheaply)
1976 Brooklyn
4/15/90 Queens
11/1993 Queens
1976 Manhattan
1980 Manhattan
Sept. 1991 Manhattan
Nov. 1993 Manhattan
Aug. 1994 Manhattan
Feb. 1996 Manhattan
Same as on the subway side. First come, first serve. Old friends get some consideration. The 1969 map is a real rarity. Send me your name and e-mail address and some honorarium for postage, etc.
Look forward to hearing from you.
e-mail aindellica--------the 1969 map...i will pay top dollar.
name your price.
ANDY@ULMER PK
1976 manhatten also
ANDY@UP
still waiting for a response about your maps.will pay well for
69-bk & 76 man.please respond.
ANDY/UP
Bus Talk and Subtalk
Steve
Both of them was down from early this morning until 6:30pm & i couldn't get into aol around 4pm until 6:30pm. Thank god they back!!!!!!!
David "Meaney" Justiniano
[This is a repost of an article I posted earlier today to nyc.transit.]
I flew into LaGuardia yesterday (after an unscheduled stop in Newburgh to refuel). Since I was headed to the Upper West Side (88th and Broadway), I figured the M60 would be an easy trip.
I boarded a bus at the airport at about 5:35pm. Already most of the seats were taken; I ended up sitting across from the rear door with my three bags blocking most of the aisle (since there wasn't anywhere else I could put them). After one more airport stop at the Marine Air Terminal, I figured it would be a quick, if crowded, ride into Manhattan.
What I didn't realize is how many people use this bus from the intermediate stops in Queens and Manhattan, including quite a few farebeaters. Over a dozen people boarded through the back door at two stops; one even insisted I move my bags (I politely responded that we were on a bus from the airport so luggage was to be expected, and besides, I paid my fare).
But at least the bus was making limited stops on Astoria Blvd. In Manhattan, the bus made every single stop across 125th St., and got heavy usage as a local crosstown bus. Why do people crowd themselves onto a packed M60 when the Bx15 and M100 will do the job just as well but probably with room to spare?
Once on Broadway, the trip was quick, as the bus again began making limited stops only. My only complaint there is that the M104 stop at 106th St. should be moved across the street so transferrers don't need to run across the street to catch the bus.
Total trip time: 85 minutes, including a ten-minute wait at LGA.
The problem with this route is that it primarily serves two disjoint markets: airport to Manhattan south of 125th St., and Astoria to Harlem. Its headways of 15 to 20 minutes are not sufficient to serve these two markets together; the airport crowd alone was uncomfortably tight. The route should be split into two: the M60 should run from the airport and make discharge stops only unless the bus is nearly empty and is ahead of schedule. The Q19, taking over the Astoria-to-Harlem role, should be extended across 125th St. and should pick up passengers at all stops. (In the opposite direction, the M60 would not stop to discharge passengers until reaching the airport.) Service on both routes should be improved to eliminate overcrowding. And anyone who tries to board through the rear door should be shot.
Comments?
Yeah, a little off topic but where you needed to go, I live a block away. Anyways, this might not work but I think that it should be a drop off only only bus from LGA-106bway. I mean you can only board the bus at LGA but eliminate stops in Queens and then when the bus comes into Manhattan, people can only get off the bus. When going from 106bway-LGA, board only bus in Manhattan, eliminate stops in Queens and go to LGA. This will make people not to use the M60 as a crosstown but rather as an airport shuttle. I think I made myself clear here. Later
Peace Out
-Clayton
Isn't that exactly what I suggested? I think we're in complete agreement here.
I'd add one drop-off location in Queens at the N station (Astoria Blvd) just before getting on the bridge.
Chuck
And for the M60 (and all routes serving a transportation center, ie. Penn Station, Grand Central, LGA, JFK, etc.) put low-floors on those routes.
I'm with u on that! I would be inclined to use the bus more often if you could get a suitcase on wheels on them
I did not know that M60 made limited stops??????
B46M Limited
In Queens and along Broadway in Manhattan, it makes limited stops. (This was a recent change, at least in Manhattan -- the skipped stops list the M60 on the sign but it's crossed out.) Along 125th St., it makes every single stop.
I was on that bus when it was pretty crowded. My idea:
Eastbound (to LGA):
Boarding only from 106/B'way to 125/1st
Boarding and alighting at Astoria Station
Alighting only at LGA
Westbound (to Manhattan)
Boarding only at LGA
Boarding and alighting at Astoria Station
Alighting only from 125/1st to 106/B'way
M35 extended to Astoria (as it did before the M60)
Route created along Astoria Boulevard from Flushing or LGA to Astoria making local stops
That last sugestion should be an extension of the Q48.Have it extend out to the Astoria Blvd.El Station instead of terminating at LGA.
Any route along Astoria Boulevard from LGA to the el and then the extension of the M35 to the el station in Queens. Why was the M35 cut back to Randalls Island? Was it so that only one bus would go from Manhattan to Queens on the Triboro. We need the M35 to Queens NOW!
M35 cut back because not to many people go on the bus to Queens or going to Manhattan. More people go to work on Randalls Island. So do you have the $$$$$ to put on the route to Queens?
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
Did I spell probablillities wrong? Well anyway, remember when someone here did a thing for the odds on getting 995 on a route out of Hudson? Could they do that again, except for 1998/1999 Nova RTS's? Thanks.
I read your message on bustalk & it talk about a similar route of the S78 but you posted the S65. If there are plans for the S65 route, which would probably be the third Brooklyn to Staten Island bus route, where will this route operate between, will it operate to the College of Staten Island & possible be a branch off the S53 route & are there readings for the S65
For now,,,the s65 or similar is a DEAD project,,at least for now
There is more concentration in the other Boros on new projects.new markets,,etc
Steve
I'd like to wish everyone at BusTalk a very happy Thanksgiving. Also, I picked yesterday and next year, I'll be working 19 run on the M79 out of Westside Depot. It's a midday run from about 12 to 9 and I invite everyone to ride along with me, take photos, etc.
(To Clayton: We can still tour Hudson even though I won't be there. When I'm familiar with Westside, we can do that too.)
I would like to stray off topic a bit and wish all the Bus-Talk family a Happy Thanksgiving to them and their individual families. I feel grateful and fortunate to have found this site on the web. The kindness and enthusiasm for the topic is wonderful. The willingness to answer any questions I have posted is something that is wonderful. I went to Bus Fest '99 and it rekindled my love of buses. Living out here in Suffolk County public transit is an afterthought.
Again --- HAPPY THANKSGIVING to one and all.
Alan
To all Busbuffs,
I recently found out from MTA Capital Planning about the new Brooklyn Bus Depot for the 2000-2004 Capital Plan & I was told that a site has not been selected for the new depot, I would like to know on where you busbuffs found out about this new Brooklyn Bus Depot, yesterday, I visited the AVIS facility in Maspeth, Queens where the building & parking area was up for sale, they can't add a new depot there & the other one which was at the UPS facility on Hunts Point Av & 27 St in LIC, Queens, the UPS facility is still there.
So I would like to know on where you busbuffs found out about this new Brooklyn Bus Depot since the MTA Capital Planning hasn't selected a site for the new depot.
The Maspeth Facility was chosen by the MTA Board
I was just wonderning on how you found out about this new S65 (forseeable route) & if you happen to have information in regards to this S65 route, can you please post up a descripition of the route & where it was supposed to operate between.
It was proposed back in 1994, just before CSI opened the new campus in Willowbrook. It's been proposed as the 's63' as well. The only reasoning for this route is that the s53 served to old Sunnyside campus, and it was a 2-fare zone. It's still a 2-fare zone, since the trip to the new campus requires anyon not coming directly from Bay Ridge take the s53 and change to the s61 or s62.
-Hank
Can you take bus directly to the ferry? Then it means it's a one fare zone.
It's not the ferry that's the issue. Many CSI students come from Brooklyn, and need to take a bus to Bay Ridge to get the s53. That's all she wrote. It's another fare to take the s61/s62 from Clove and Victory to CSI.
-Hank
SEE NEXT REPLY
yukon has now retired all 1982 express buses. several are awaitng scrap while 1771 remains in storage under the depot. mci 2060-2088 are now in service and 2089-2092 await fareboxes. all told 80 new mcis will probably replace all older express buses.
Ulmer Park still has 1982 express buses running. when are they retiring, and if they do, what buses will they get to replace them?
JAM and QV are still running 1982's. In fact, QV now has the most 1982 expresses in NYC.
1771 is a great bus. There was a period in 1997 that I drove that bus out of Amsterdam depot on the m79 crosstown. I dont think however that it was good enough for express service.
it served as an express bus here from 1997-1999. it now sits under yukon depot with 1749 awaiting its fate.
http://www.oe-pages.com/BIZ/Mlm/kwcarl/
THE BEST DEPOT IN THE SYSTEM {THE COUNTRY CLUB}
Best best depot in NYC???
The last two letters of my name!!
The best Depot is West Side, Gun Hill, Kingsbridge, & Jackie Gleason Depot.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
Signed Steve and my son ,Chris and my 2 cats Spike and Mikie
I'm into Greyhound, and I was checking out Greyhound this afternoon at the Port Authority. The day before Thanksgiving is their busiest travel day. I was there last year, but in the morning. Today I went at 4PM, and was astounded by what was going on. Usually the New York to Boston run loads at Gate 84. When I got there, I noticed several Greyhounds and several leased buses loading the Boston run out on 41st between 8th and 9th Ave. The police had the street barricaded, and were not allowing any traffic down the 41st St. There was a steady stream of people filling the buses. They had many supervisors out on the street as well as baggage handlers. They loaded several private buses that were operating for Greyhound as well as for Peter Pan. Then right where the buses come up the ramp from the terminal between 9th and 10th, the police were allowing buses to make a left turn and basically wrong railing it to the tunnel entrance. Then I was surprised to find that they had about 30 buses stashed in a lot near 10th Ave around 40th Street, a lot that I have never seen Greyhounds parked. The main lot near 12th Ave and 29th St was loaded with buses. I was surprised, because I expected to see the lot empty.
Does anyone here know about the behind the scenes operation during a busy period like Thanksgiving?
Why do they use so many leased buses, if they have loads of their own sitting around? Is it because they need more drivers than they have?
From what i heard they leased extra buses to add service, Added service requires more buses, so you probally saw a bunch of em que'd up wating for their turn to start loading. between that and extra's incase of overload's or mechanical problems requireing a bus change that is probally why you saw so many coaches sitting there.
I read your message on bustalk & I would just like to know if the Maspeth Facility will be the former AVIS Facility on Grand Av in Maspeth, Queens that I mentioned eariler on a bustalk message because when I spoke to Capital Planning at the MTA, the new Brooklyn Bus Depot site wasn't selected.
Since you got this information, when will the NYCT start building this new depot & what year will this new depot be open as a operating depot or will this depot open earlier when the new depot is being rebuilt, if so, what year wil it be open.
When all the 1999 80 new MCI buses are all in service at Yukon, what will happen to the 1993 Orion Surburban express buses at Yukon, will they stay at Yukon or be transferred to another depot, if transferred to another depot, what depot will they be assigned to & how many will the depot that they are assigned to received the 1993 Orion Surburban express buses.
Finally, have the New Flyer "VIKING" Over-the_road Coaches arrived at Yukon, if not, when will Yukon finally receive them.
When all the 1999 80 new MCI buses are all in service at Yukon, what will happen to the 1993 Orion Surburban express buses at Yukon, will they stay at Yukon or be transferred to another depot, if transferred to another depot, what depot will they be assigned to & how many will the depot that they are assigned to received the 1993 Orion Surburban express buses.
Finally, have the New Flyer "VIKING" Over-the-Road Coaches will start arriving at Yukon, if they haven't arrived yet, then when will Yukon finally receive them.
This is a bulletin board for all to see and use. The whole idea is to put a question or comment up for ALL to see and maybe answer. if I had the answer to a question that you specifically asked another person, wouldn't you like to know what the answer is?? If you have a question or comment for a specific person send him/her an e-mail. That's why their username is highlighted in blue on their posts.
Which is another thing, notice I have to post this message to you on the bustalk board because you dont post your personal e-mail address. Otherwise I would have sent this to you personally instead of berating you in public.
Much like someone else who began all his posts with "TO so and so..." and finished with the phrase ".....please post on bustalk.", and never had his e-mail address available for everybody else.
I believe someone made mention of this last week........
I've berated people for worse, don't feel bad.
-Hank
I would like to know a brief describtion about this S63 route that was proposed back in 1994, what streets, avenues, blvd or roads would this new route would have taken & do you have any idea on when this new route might ever begin.
It may never happen. Basically it would have followed the s53 route to Victory Blvd, and then gone down Victory Blvd. and terminated at either the college, or Richmond Ave. Another option for it put the bus on the service roads to I278 until it reached Little Clove Rd, and then Little Clove to Victory.
-Hank
I just noticed that QS #496 has the LED/flipdot signs and the new interior lighting like the TA's 6000's. I've never seen a DOT Orion like this. Is this a brand new order or something?
(The new interior lighting creates an atmosphere reminiscent of the original Grumman indirect lighting, so it's nice to see this on the Queens privates.)
The QS CNG Orions in the 400 series are very new, just arriving over the past few weeks. Many more are coming. They are transit buses, unlike the order that arrived earlier this year in the 500 series of express buses.
Yeah, got a closer look at a another 400 last night. It has the carpet seats like the TA, only with more color.
Are the other DOT companies going to get those too?
TransiTalk is in Washington DC this weekend taking pics of their buses. I'm the only person representing TransiTalk here this weekend. Couldn't make the trip- personal reasons. Anyway, QS is getting what Triboro was supposed to be getting. I believe QS were only supposed to get buses as low as 426. The lowest I've seen is 415. Command is next on the list to get the local CNG'S. Green has a long way to go in order for them to get their CNG'S, probably by either fall 2000 or spring 2001. Does anybody know if Triboro is supposed to get this order of CNG'S? The reason I ask is because I see buses like 3027 on the Q29 and Q53 often.
MM2000
co- TT Webmaster
TransiTALK would like to wish everyone on Bus Talk a Happy Thanksgiving!!!!
Sincerely,
TransiTALK WebMasters and Photographers
Trevor Logan
Kevin Barsky
DaShawn Pretlow
Gary Chatterton
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you at TransiTALK. Keep up the good work!
Here we go again!
Please stop posting "To:" messages. If you want an answer from a particular person, e-mail that person. Most, if not all, of the people to whom recent "To:" postings have been addressed, have their e-mail addresses posted. Moreover, people other than the ones who are named in the "To:" postings might have the answer!
Thank you.
David
I saw on the 11 PM news that a NYC bus slid and hit a tree causing injuries to the passengers. I was half - asleep at the time and didn't catch too many of the details....I believe it was in South Eastern Queens....It was an RTS and the number was either 4855 or 4885. Any B-t'ers know more ?????
P.S. Happy Thanksgiving to one and all !!!!!
It is on page 86 of the Daily News .It is 4588,run 12 on the Q84 at 120th Ave and Nashville Blvd.According to the caption the driver had a seizure.
There was a bus accident at 65 St. & 5 av.,Brooklyn on the B63 which involved a fire truck. Think it was 4562. Sorry to report that the bus driver died.
my condolensces go to the drivers family and those who got hurt on the bus
According to the report the driver was ejected and the bus was draged 100 feet. That must be a big hit for something like that to happen.
What kind of bus was that? How much does a city bus usually weight?
sorry to hear of today's tragic bus accident on 5 av.condolences to
the operator's family and co workers.
ANDY/UP
That is truly terrible news...heartfelt condolenses to that driver's family.
(totally unimportant in this circumstance, but JG has no 4500's it must have been 4652 or something like that....godspeed)
My sincere sympathy to the family of the Operator of this vehice
Steve
You know,,the sad thing,,a Man lost his life
today,,,a some of you are more concerned about the
Bus Model and the Garage vehicles
Today's post has a picture of the mangaled bus. Bus number looks to have been 4662. The article has the bus weighing 12 tons, and the Seagrave Ladder 20 tons.
The picture makes it look like the bus wan't broadsided, but the FD truck seems to have clipped the right front.
It also notes previous fatal accidents involving emergency vehicles. One of those noted, which occured on Staten Island, fails to mention the driver of the car stuck by Ladder 83 (identical truck to Ladder 109, which was involved in Brooklyn) went around stopped traffic and entered the intersection.
Bottom line? Yeild to Emergency Vehicles and wear your seatbelt!
-Hank
The Bus Driver was ejected thru the front windshield,,,and fell under the front of the vehicle,
I was involved ,,directly in this assignment
,,,in Radio Operations ,for FDNY
Steve
FDNY
I just saw the news & they said fire truck run the red light than hit the bus is TMC-RTS #4662 on B63 lost control but the street was wet & the driver was not wearing seat belt than thrown thought the window. The bus come from Jackie Gleason Depot & #4662 in the front is heavy damger. So God bless to the driver & it a sad day.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
Any day is a terrible day for this kind of thing to happen, but more so today, a day in which we are thankful for what we have in this life. I'm sure he had plans to be with his friends or loved ones after he finished his shift. May he rest in peace.
I think the DN said that he was to meet his family for dinner in NJ.......
B46M Limited
Emergency vehicles with lights and sirens do not run red lights. They are required (and it is noted that this one did) to slow or stop before entering the intection, and checking to see if the ROW is clear. Unfortunately, someone in this case did not do the right thing. It is the failure of civilian vehicles to yeild the right of way that cause this type of accident.
-Hank
Hank,
an Emerg vehicle is supposed to come to a Full stop at Red Lights!!!
I do work for FDNY ,this whole thing was a shame
Steve
By all the accounts that I have seen so far, L109 followed procedure.
-Hank
Dont read everything that you read in the papers or hear on TV,,I am privey to alot more,,beleive me
And to certain others,,I dont think that you can weigh a 57 yr old Man's death,,who has 3 kids,,with a model of a New Bus being destroyed,,not too bright of a statement
I don't think it has to do with it being a new bus, but with "What if it was a CNG bus?"
Honestly, putting everything else about the incident aside, it WOULD have been interesting to see what would have happened if it were. IT would, for once and for all, prove or disprove the safety of these vehicles.
Additionally, depending on where it was hit, a low-floor bus. Picture where the bumper of the truck would be in relation to the passengers vertical position inside the bus.
-Hank
I have not been in any NYCT CNG Bus, but MARTA has a master gas kill switch on the dashboard and a sensor system to shut off the gas in the event of a gas leak. MARTA's CNG fleet are low floor models
I was given a tour of San Diego transit's facilities and they have a small fleet of CNG C40LF's. The person who gave the tour mentioned that there are a couple dozen sensors everywhere in the bus, and even the slightest concentration of gas will set off the sensors. He said that if the concentration goes about 3/1000's of a percent, the driver will get a warning, have 30 seconds to stop the bus, and once it stops it will not move again until maintenance comes out to check and rest if necessary. And, both doors will open automatically when the bus stops.
The sensors will actually sense 1/1000 of a percent concentration of gas and at that time will just turn a warning light on until the gas concentration gets any stronger. One SDT driver said "Yeah, when someone cuts a nasty fart in the bus, the warning light comes on too!"
There have been several incidents with buses operated by NYCDOT bus operators. Command Bus had three of these (one when the tanks were installed underneath the bus (901 or 902???). Also, 4927 and 4930 were involved in fires and the tanks held their own (4927 was totaled - for a look, go to Command's storage yard).
Finally, Triboro had an incident where, I believe, the driver forgot that he was operating a CNG bus and pulled into the 74th Street bus terminal knocking the tanks off their roof mounts.
It is safe to say that CNG is a "safe" fuel.
Thanks.
I'm new to this website and appreciate you allowing me to say my piece.
Q25/34: I know that you're new to the site, but if people have a question for you, you should leave your email address posted. Are you a daily customer to the Q25-34 Route?
Q66#384Gary
Welcom Aboard!!!!!
Next Stop : Oakwood and Pulaski Roads
The bus accident that happened today involved RTS #4662 and occurred on Third Avenue, Brooklyn, beneath the Gowanus Expressway. The bus was involved in a collision with a Fire Engine on call. The driver of the bus was ejected and fatally injured.
My condolences go out to the families of all involved in this unfortunate accident.
Wayne
I stand corrected regarding the accident location - it was 65th Street and 5th Avenue, where the Gowanus heads east.
Very sad news on what should be a day of joy and happiness. My heart goes out to all involved.
Wayne
My condolences go out to the family of bus driver 4662. May he rest in peace. 4588 will also join 4662 in it's final resting place: the scrap yard. RIP 4588, 4662 and Bus Driver of 4662.
MM2000
Yes, the B63 runs on 5Av. The B37 runs on 3Av..............
B46M Limited
Does anyone have a list of bus numbers that have been wrecked (asnd reused or retired.) Such a list alerady exists on the subway side.
Suggestion to Wayne: Why not start a bus list when you see a bus! You could add a heading" company" (Queens Surface, NYCT, etc.) and of course type of bus "Orion", "Nova' "RTS" and a column fuel "Diesel". "CNG", "Hybrid", etc.
My condolensces to the families involved. Brian
TransiTALK's Webmaster would like send out out a "Deep Heart-Felt" condolence to the Family of the Bus Operator and Passengers on the ill-fated 4662.
Its a Very Sad Day when we lose one of our own!!!!!
Regards,
Trevor Logan Kevin Barsky DaShawn Pretlow Gary Chatterton
TransiTALK Webmasters
Let me add "Amen" to those sentiments
Same here,my heart felt condolences to the family of the driver of bus 4662 .How tragic it is for a life to be lost on day when one should be celebrating at home with loved ones.
The only thing the fearless leader Reuter could say on Channel 4 at 5 o'clock was "Well usually when you hear sirens and horns you pull over to the side until you see where its coming from. "
Thanks for that info Larry. Always the wealth of information from 370.
I was sick when I heard him say that. Someone should remind Mr. Reuter that an RTS cannot move out of the way as quickly as a car. My heart goes out to the family.
He's a stupid s@#$##head who doesn't want to give a decent raise to the people who run this system.
we at yukon depot offer our sincere codolences to the family and coworkers at gleason depot
Larry said that because he was pissed that his day off was interrupted.
Apparently this operator swapped runs (3/63) with another operator just so he could get home early for the holiday. That's the worst thing. But some seem more relieved that it was not a CNG flyer and only a 4600 rts.
You know the TA! If this swap wasn't done in accordance with "established procedeures" rather than being done "on the q.t", then others will hang at Gleason. I heard the location involved is a bad corner with lots of blind spots. The roadway was wet. Maybe the driver heard the siren but couldn't ascertain where it was coming from. Maybe he tried to stop and the bus skidded. There would be no skid marks due to the rain. Whatever, in the eyes of the TA, the man is guilty because a dead man can't defend himself.......Larry's comments should be proof enough to the people of New York of the disdain which management has toward the front line workers of the TA....I call on Larry Reuter to RESIGN immediately. If not, the MTA Board should FIRE him immediately for this uncalled rush to judgement.
Bill, I AM ANGERED AT THE DISRESPECT OF ROTO REUTER!!! Did anyone tape the news including his cold calice remarks? I need a sound or video file including sound. I as a steward and safety rep WILL fulfil my sworn duties of the TWU, the respect of TA and OA employees and the deceased by submitting a copy of his cold hearted remark and cover sheet to Gov George Pataki and the lawyer of the driver whos name has been identified on the radio. I hope everyone reading Subtalk and Bustalk will now stop crying over a plastic bus and pay full respect to the driver. My heart goes out to the family of Angel Godier.
As per Channel 4 web site, contact their Video Monitoring Service at 212-736-2010 if you want to hear Larry boy's comments right from the horses mouth. The full report was only shown at 5pm, it was just a mere video clip and Chuck Scarborough voice over at 11 pm.
http://www.newschannel4.com/tvsd/features/help.shtml
then go down about three paragraphs
I say we ask Hank Eisenstein to resign as well for his stupid remarks about "bottom line if a emergency vehicle is heard pull over." Unless Hank was there I ask that he not grace us with his stupid ass anymore with his TWU hating ASS! Hank if you hate transit workers so much stay the hell out of this bulletin board!
If you're going to bite my head off for something, at least get it right.
I said:
"It also notes previous fatal accidents involving emergency vehicles. One of those noted, which occured on Staten Island, fails to mention the driver of the car stuck by Ladder 83 (identical truck to Ladder 109, which was involved in Brooklyn) went around stopped traffic and entered the intersection.
Bottom line? Yeild to Emergency Vehicles and wear your seatbelt!"
I also said:
"Emergency vehicles with lights and sirens do not run red lights. They are required (and it is noted that this one did) to slow or stop before entering the intection, and checking to see if the ROW is clear. Unfortunately, someone in this case did not do the right thing. It is [usually] the failure of civilian vehicles to yeild the right of way that cause this type of accident. "
I left the word 'usually' out of the above statment originally, as it is NOT the case that it is always the fault of the civilian driver (as would be implied by my statement). There are several instances of EmV accidents in which the driver of the EmV is obviously at fault (The ambulance in Brooklyn that killed those kids, my mother's car being broadsided by an ambulance as well)
I never placed blame, and I only repeated facts that were previously posted (I admit using the NY Post as a source is a possible mistake. For all we know, they taped it for a Fox special)
I never said 'it's the bus driver's fault. I never said I hated transit workers, I never said I hated bus drivers. I'll admit to hating the TWU, but only because I hate all unions; as my experience with unions has been horrible when they were supposedly representing me. I've got no problems with any transit workers whatsoever, at least the ones who do their jobs right.
-Hank
If you're going to bite my head off for something, at least get it right.
I said:
"It also notes previous fatal accidents involving emergency vehicles. One of those noted, which occured on Staten Island, fails to mention the driver of the car stuck by Ladder 83 (identical truck to Ladder 109, which was involved in Brooklyn) went around stopped traffic and entered the intersection.
Bottom line? Yeild to Emergency Vehicles and wear your seatbelt!"
I also said:
"Emergency vehicles with lights and sirens do not run red lights. They are required (and it is noted that this one did) to slow or stop before entering the intection, and checking to see if the ROW is clear. Unfortunately, someone in this case did not do the right thing. It is [usually] the failure of civilian vehicles to yeild the right of way that cause this type of accident. "
I left the word 'usually' out of the above statment originally, as it is NOT the case that it is always the fault of the civilian driver (as would be implied by my statement). There are several instances of EmV accidents in which the driver of the EmV is obviously at fault (The ambulance in Brooklyn that killed those kids, my mother's car being broadsided by an ambulance as well)
I never placed blame, and I only repeated facts that were previously posted (I admit using the NY Post as a source is a possible mistake. For all we know, they taped it for a Fox special)
I never said 'it's the bus driver's fault. I never said I hated transit workers, I never said I hated bus drivers. I'll admit to hating the TWU, but only because I hate all unions; as my experience with unions has been horrible when they were supposedly representing me. I've got no problems with any transit workers whatsoever, at least the ones who do their jobs right.
-Hank
I work for the Fire Dept and have worked Engines and Truck Companies in the past.
You are supposed to come to a Stop,and you have to assume that the civilian DID NOT Hear you
This is termed----Due Regard
Anyone who is familiar with the intersection in question ,,it is a bad blind spot with the BQE overhead and EL pillers
FDNY
One thing that has NOT been mentioned in the discussion of this unfortunate accident....
Reports I've heard was that the streets were wet (i.e. raining? I dunno, I am on the west coast.) I assume if it WAS raining, or everything was wet from a very recent rain, that the bus driver had to use the defrosters to keep his windshields clear.
The GM RTS buses have VERY LOUD defroster blowers -- and I've been thinking that possible this contributed to the situation -- by making so much noise that the driver did NOT hear the approaching emergency vehicle.
The DN said that he usually do the B51 route. He also was in the TA for 20 years so he could have easily taken the day off.......... A dedicated worker. RIP, Mr. Gautier.........
B46M Limited
RIP to Driver who was killed in the Bus Accident & my heart go to his family. It been a sad day on Thankgiving Day.
MY FELLOW BUS OPERATOR JUST LOST HIS LIFE AND THE TA IS ALREADY PLACING THE BLAME ON HIM.LARRY REUTER MAY YOU ROT IN HELL.RIP ANGEL
There used to be a Bx23 line about 10 years ago...
Was it a part of the current Bx8 (I assume the Bx8 absorbed this route)? I do know that it did stop at Buhre Av on the Lex-Pelham #6.
Did a Bx25 ever exist at all, and if so what were the details of the life on that route?
Nick
Yes, The Bx23 operated from the Buhre Ave Station (Middletown Rd & Westchester Ave) to Schley Ave. It was was extended at both ends of the line and became an extention of the Bx8. The Bx8 used to terminate at Westchester Square before being extended. They operated out of the old Coliseum depot and today the Bx8 is a Gun Hill route.
The Bx25 was renumbered to Bx32 in the early 1980's when many Bronx bus routes played a game of musical numbers. The route has not changed from it's Bx25 days.
The routes listed below were involved in the early 1980's route re-numbering of Bronx route. I remember at the time the NYCTA said the change would reduce confusion. I fail to see how.
old new
Bx3 Bx17 - Extended to 132 St-Walnut Ave
Bx4 Bx34
Bx6 Bx30 - Extended to Co-Op City
Bx7 discontinued
Bx8 Merged with Bx23
Bx9 Bx31
Bx10 Bx7
Bx13 Bx22
Bx14 Discontinued - part of route taken over by Bx16
Bx15 Bx28
Bx16 Extended to Ropes Ave-City Line
Bx17 Bx26
Bx19 discontinued
Bx20 Bx9
Bx22 Bx14
Bx23 Merged with Bx8
Bx25 Bx32
Bx26 Bx21
Bx28 Bx39
Bx29 Bx15
Bx30 Bx19 Merged with Bx31
Bx31 Bx19 Merged with Bx30
Bx34 Bx6
Bx37 Bx13
Bx38 Bx3
Bx42 Bx4
Wayne
Could you possibly tell me where the discontiued routes went???????????
B46M Limited
I do remember the old BX19 - it was "207th St. Crosstown". Began at 207 & Broadway (Manhattan), over the University Hts. Bridge to Fordham Road, then on Fordham Road to Southern Blvd. It was merged/combined with BX12 in 1969 - a very obvious combination, since the BX12 began at Sedgwick Ave/Fordham Road and went east from there.
The reason for the two separate, overlapping routes on Fordham Road was historical. The BX19 was the old Third Ave. Railway streetcar route (X-207 St.Crosstown), converted to bus in 1948; the BX12 was always a bus route. They were operated from separate garages prior to merging (BX 19 from Kingsbridge; BX12 from Coliseum).
Many thanks to Andy for explaining the old BX19. This one is actually before my time. I did know about the BX19 because it was on the side (route sign on MABSTOA buses) as "19 207th Street Crosstown".
The the exact route of the Bx7 escapes me. I know it operated along Boston Road and it's north terminal was at Boston Road & Ropes Ave (City Line). The Bx14 operated between Boston Road & Ropes Ave to White Plains Road and 233rd Street (or was it 225th Street???). Both routes operated out of Coliseum depot.
Wayne
There's an old bus stop sign on 14th & 3rd uptown that shows the 101 coming from City Hall, when was it cut back? and why does the TA run the shorter, local route to City Hall, as opposed to the longer quicker routes?
Because the route was long & same go to M102. From City Hall to Ft George is one hour & half. So they cut the time & add M103 on the route from 125st to City Hall.
Millennium Man 2000
The M101 was the and probably still is the longest route in Manhattan. I think the second longest in Manhattan is about to be cut in half.(M10)
B46M Limited
Did the M102 ever go down to City Hall?
Yes M102 used to go down to City Hall full time & sometime 6 Street.
Millennium Man 2000
Correct but that changed after a while and the M101 always went to City Hall with a few trips ending at 6th Street and the M102 always went to 6th Street no longer serving City Hall. I don't know exactly when that particular change took effect.
Peace
DaShawn
What is going to happen to the M10? Does anyone have more details than it is going to be split?
The M10 will be be the northern half, and will terminate at Madison Square Garbage. The southern half will be the M20 and will run to Lincoln Center.
I only remember that a good number of bus routes were changed/converted during that time...
For example, old B58 became Q58 and I believe that old B53 became Q54, B55 became Q55 and B56 became Q56 at the same time.
Does anyone have a full list of the 1985/86 changes?
Nick
B22 = Q24
B53 = Q54
b55 = Q55
B56 = Q56
B58 = Q58
B59 = Q59
All these chnges were made do to politics. all these routes mainly operate in Queens so they had to have Q desinations.
I thought tha these changes was done around the time Jamaica Ctr station opened, which was around 1988-1989???????
B46M Limited
December 11, 1988
Back in 96 or 97, the driver of 8346 suffered a seizure and damage was done to the bus. Last night, 4588 went through the same fate but 4588 may be headed to scrap. 8346 is back in service in Brooklyn. These drivers should be checked for medical every year so that accidents like this don't occur on a periodic basis.
MM2000
The operators are screened very carefully now and have always been but more since the M4 crash. Currently dozens of operators are on restricted duty or have been transfered to Property Protection Agent positions.
M4 crash? Was that one on 5Av at around 23St a couple of years ago??
B46M Limited
My bad, I realized that the M4 terminate at Penn Station...........
B46M Limited
Checking drivers' medical conditions annually will still not stop heart attacks, seizures, etc. from happening. Sometimes a condition will not show up in an annual physical.
And driving a bus can be very stressful, and can "catch up" with a person without warning.
I had my annual physical in May of 1997 and everything showed up perfect. Yet in October, 1997, I was in surgery for removal of a tumor which was colon cancer. Fortunately, all is well nowadays after the surgery, recuperation, and six months of chemotherapy. None of the cancer showed up in the annual physical.
MANY medical situations will NOT show up in annual physicals. Sometimes a condition can "appear" all of a sudden due to just a minor injury such as a fall, bump, etc.
Here are some old bus lines that i remember being on, i remember the depots but dont remember when they ended.if anyone knows, let me know:
B21-Ulmer Park.
B30-Fresh Pond.
B33-Jackie Gleason.
B34-Ulmer Park.
M41-?
B88-Jackie Gleason.
R.I.P. to the old B5 and B50 split
B 21 before that ran out of Coney Island (W 5th and Surf)
B30 was discontinued 5 or 6 years ago.
I remember seeing a B30 with a JG sticker on it..............
B46M Limited
According to Thursday'ss Daily News: Due to two explosions at Jackie Gleason, all of ther Boorklyn CNGs have been parked. Any info? What above privates (Queens Surface, et.al.) using CNG ? How will this impact service on NYCT Brooklyn CNG Lines
I had heard that the CNG tank at Gleason blew up twice this past week, and that the Orion and New Flyer LF CNG buses would be put in storage until the tanks are repaired. There was some talk about Gleason getting some diesel Orions from Staten Island in the interim.
Good thing that they only stored so many of those old RTS, instead of shipping them right to the scrapper. They're gonna be seeing some use.
-Hank
are the private lines such as command and queens surface also having this problem?
[Are the private lines such as command and queens surface also having this problem?]
Knock, knock on wood ... I don't know of any problem at this depot.
P.S. Initially we had some fittings that need to be replaced, but none resulted in a explosion.
Mr t__:^)
Perhaps as a way of expressing all B-T 'ers condolences to the family of Angel Godier, perhaps David Pirmann could print all of the sincere messages we have posted and put them into a folder / binder and present it to them. I am willing to sent him a few bucks to defray the cost of his time and materials. I'm sure that our friends at JG would see that it is delivered.
I would request that my post be withheld from any folders as there is a lot of anger directed at NYCTA boss Larry Reuter and I don't want any free publicity for his behalf or my post to seem like it is politicizing an issue. Id suppose that I can write something a little more responsible or maybe drop by the next time I'm at 36 Street Yard and pay condolances. I do however appreciate your thought on the matter as the internet was a popular way for many on an IND line last month to pay respects to a passing motorman. By the way, I mispelled Angel's last name so if anyone read the paper, please repost so I can stand corrected.
Having attended the Creation 'Star Trek' convention in downtown Brooklyn yesterday, there is a makeshift memorial in front of the old Schraft's Brewery, at the end of the B63 line.
-Hank
if jackie gleason is short buses due to the cng explosion, instead of getting buses from other depots to cover, why dont thay tke buses that are parked in storage, like in edgewater and in south brooklyn(at the end of the b35 and b70 route at 39th st and 2nd av). that way, there wont be a shortage of buses. I dont see this effecting cng buses privatly cause i saw #494 from Queens Surface on the Q65A last night and their regular #500 series on express routes last night, so i assume its olny brooklyn that is being effected. will theye ver fix this by the new year?
yukon sent buses 6337-6343 and 6345. this doesnt happen at the privates because they dont operate like nyct. transit employed non union contractors to install these tanks. they evidently didnt know what they were doing. cng buses have run in nyc for years without these types of problems.
The B63 had Orions from Yukon and Kingsbridge depots running, and RTS from 126st, Fresh Pond and Jamacia depots. That's just what I saw. Not knowing for sure what depots routes make it to downtown Brooklyn that come from JG (except the B63), I'm assuming it's normal to se Ulmer Park, Flatbush, and ENY RTS there.
-Hank
UP does not have any routes that take them to down town Brooklyn
Simon, you have a great point!! NYCT has freshly painted RTS's that have been sitting in storage at Crosstown for MONTHS!! Most of them are former Queens Division 3900's (so you know they are in decent shape). Just recently, some Staten Island 1985 coaches have made their way there. WHY THE HELL AREN'T THOSE BUSES PRESSED INTO SERVICE IN THE WAKE OF THIS JG FIASCO? Does anyone have any idea what is going on with them?
Because they will look nice when they are scrapped!!! LOL
and dont laugh because thats probably just what nyct will do, waste money on them while failing to build a third depot on staten island.
It just boggles the mind how they can have a lot full of "storage" buses to be used in an emergency, and not use them in an emergency. Instead, they waste tons of man hours ($$$$) to move buses from as far as Gun Hill to Gleason. It just makes you shake your head.
2611, which I had assumed was retired along with the rest of the 81s and 82s, was in service along Madison Ave this morning.
-Hank
Back during the 70's, NYCTA & Queens Transit Corp. had an early type of full bus ad similar to the wraps of nowadays. The TA had a WBLS ad and full ads were used on QT's AM Generals. Anyone remember these and have more info on this.
This may be overly technical, but I believe the AM Generals were Steinway Transit buses, not Queens Transit buses. In those days, there was no mixing between Steinway and QT. I don't remember the ads, but do think that those AM Generals did not last with Steinway very long.
Thanks Sid, you are correct with that info on Steinway buses yet I did see those odd square looking buses running on Parsons Blvd. (Q25/34) back before the Grumman/RTS days. (Mid 70's)
I remember the WBLS ads on MABSTOA buses in Manhattan.
Wayne
The WBLS ad (with the "W" sideways) also showed up on a TA bus as well. 1962 GMC #2137 out of Jamaica Depot also had that ad. It may have been put there by 126 Street.
Yes, your right. i think the "L" was higher than the rest of the letters and it used the space between the windows.
Wayne
Speaking of ads...
The 9160-9309 series Flxible new looks had an ad rack placed on the a/c condenser unit. This was held out by brackets away from the condenser grill.
7753 had this as well as billboards, the only Flixble new look with billboards.
Flxible new looks 7000 to around 7020? also had the AC mounted ad racks as well as 7645 - 7659 which were from 126 St. then transfered to other depots later on. Anyone have a pic of 7753 with the Batwing ads? I would really like to see that. Also Grumman 631 had them as well.
I rememember 7645 -7659 having the ad rack on back(passing 126th on the way to Jersey)and when they were x-fered to Fresh Pond.
When 7645 was at Fresh Pond, the ad rack was later removed. It might have been damaged. 7656-7659 never made it to Fresh Pond;these were at Jamaica Depot.
to update yukon has not received these buses yet. we have 40 2000 mci buses in service. buses 2090-2102 have been delivered and awaiting dealer prep? we still have all our old orions and nyct has even painted some stored rts and placed them in service. we also received the rest of castletons express rts.
u guys stil have room? and when you get the remainder of the MCI buses, what will happen to the RTS express buses?
5 to 2 they are going to QV
What scrap yard will these 2 buses go to: Nimco or Gershow?
MM2000
CO-Webmaster representing TransiTalk
Once of the buses will not go to Nimco or Gershow Scrap Yard unless the buses is in good shape. I would say #4662 will be heading to Storage Yard because of heavy damage in front of #4662.
Millenium Man 2000
They'll be held for NYPD until the investigations (and possible lawsuits) are finalized. After that, stripped for parts, and disposed of (if they even DO strip the parts. Using parts from vehicles involved in wrecks has an element of liability to it)
-Hank
THe correct investigators for any incident involving a City vehicle are DOI and OEM
---not NYCPD,,unless Criminal investigation is warranted..AIS Performs on scene summaries
---only
In a fire incident,,the primary investigation is performed by Fire Marshalls
Steve
FDNY
Better explanation given
Knowing the MTA, they will reman both buses and do a horrible job on them.
Peace Out
-Clayton
I wouldnt take a bus out knowing that an operator died in it.
Memphis (TN) had a bus- number 117, where the operator was shot for his change. This resulted in the exact change policy and supervision met buses on the road and took the change from the operator on the day of the policy's effective date at 12 noon. The bus was repainted inside(they used a different interior paint color) and given a new number. Bus operators knew what happened and it was not long before warnings were scratched in the paint about "Russell Sing" (The name of the bus driver who was killed.) Many of the smarter veteran operators would refuse that bus or claim mechanical problems and be given a different bus.
That incident also was involved in the decision to put two way radios in all MATA Buses.
For the last couple of weeks now, the M72 has been terminating in front of Donald Trump's two new residential towers on Freedom Place.
Originally the M72 went south on Freedom Place and back north to 72nd Street from its terminal at the northeast corner of West End Av. at 66 Street. About five years ago, work began underneath Freedom Place to shore it up and heavy vehicles including buses were banned from the street. So M72's turned around by going east on 65th St., south on Amsterdam Av. and west on 66th St.
Now most of the work has been finished to facilitate Donald Trump developing the waterfront on the Hudson between 72nd and 59th Streets. But the original Freedom Place loop for the M72 buses has been reversed...so the buses can idle in front of Trump's buildings.
Now when the M72's head south on West End Av., they turn west on 66th St., north on Freedom Place, then begin their eastbound service by turning east on 70th Street, north on West End Av. and east again on 72nd St.
The destination signs have not changed yet. They still say "West End Av."
Living in this neighborhood, I have seen Trump's project take away dozens of parking spaces. Trump had the city widen sidewalks on Freedom Place and put up "No Standing" signs on both sides of the street in front of his properties. Now the M72nd terminal bus stop has also removed another five spaces from Freedom Place. Instead of putting the bus stop in the "No Standing" area, the TA or DOT put it in one of the few remaining places where cars can park on the street. Does anyone know who decided to put the M72 bus stop in a parking zone instead of directly in front of Trump's buildings, which would be a "No Standing" zone?
Reggie
nh153@mail.com
I posted this information in my Monthly Agenda Notes for the NYC TA Transit Committee
Steve
FDNY
I used to think that rear route signs automatically followed whatever route was listed on the front of the bus.
But now I realize drivers sometimes forget to change the rear route sign. I've seen an M86 say "M15" on its rear route sign and a few other mistakes. Why isn't it automatic that changing the front (and side) sign also changes the rear route number?
Reggie
nh153@mail.com
The rear route # is supposed to coincide with the front one. If that does not happen, it is a mechanical defect, something which the operator has no control over.
Remmember the bus/bomb clip....what route was that bus?????
Could be any that went to Willy B Plaza in Bklyn
The explosion appeared to take place facing northbound on Bedford Avenue, so I would guess, looking at a Brooklyn bus map, that it was the B61.
I was wonderning if Yukon will become an all Orion & MCI bus depot including the 3 New Flyer "VIKING" Over-the-Road coaches when all the 1999 MCI buses are in service. If so, what bus depot will the 1987 local & express RTS 4800 series buses & the 1991 local RTS 8000 series
buses be going to.
the local 8000 rts series have allready been sent to Flatbush depot(8318-8339).
8328 is in storage at Castleton. Brian
8293-8315 remain in service at yukon. we just received 6344 and 6346-6349. 100 1999 orions now in service. 6337-6343 and 6345 on loan to gleason.
8316 is at YUK also, isn't it? I also understand that the 4800 express coaches will replace the 1982's in Queens. What will happen with the 1987 locals (4892-4899).
8316 out of service temporarily. 4873-88 still being used as expresses here. several 4800 both local and express are also temporarily sidelined.
And what will happen to the Suburban Orions?
The suburban Orions will probably go to JG and CS
When the M10 splits into two services starting in January 2000, will both the M10 & the M20 stay out of West Side or will they be assigned to another depot, if so, what depots will the M10 & M20 be assigned to.
M10 & M20 will be stay in West Side Depot.
Millennium Man 2000
I still need Destination Signs for the M10 and M20 ,,if anyone sees them please let me know,,thanks
Steve
First off, it's not Hudson Pier (although Hudson qualifies for the "Unique Location" prize).
Second, what does make a depot the best in NYC? For bus operators it seems to be location. What works for BusTalkers?
I think Westside Depot is the best depot because it serves most of the major Manhattan routes.
Peace Out
-Clayton
How about MDBF per bus? Does that make a depot the best? I think this is how QV might be the best.
How does Hudson Pier just get something saying "Ok, it ain't Hudson Pier"?
Alan works at Hudson so he didn't want to favor his own depot as the original poster, I think I'm right.
Peace Out
-Clayton
Since I am big on bus appearance, my vote for best depot goes to Queens Village. They have always ranked at or close to the top in terms of depot MDBF.
Its neighbor to the west, Jamaica Depot, gets the nod for the worst depot, and not because of maintenance (they actually do an excellent job on their buses and have a similar record to QV). It's due to the actual building which is cramped and is falling apart, literally. There is barely enough space there to accomodate its assigned 190 or so buses. The worst part is, the TA won't build them a new depot. There is an empty lot directly across the street. What gives???
I think I past Jamaica depot while driving along Merrick Blvd into Jamaica. If that's the depot, then you are right. They need a bigger space over to accomodate those buses..........
B46M Limited
Let see who is the best Bus Depot in NYC? Here is the list that i pick for best Bus Depot in NYC.
Bronx=========>Gun Hill & Kingsbridge Depot
Manhattan=====>West Side & Manhattanville Depot
Queens========>Casey Stengel Depot
Brooklyn======>Jackie Gleason Depot
Staten Island=>Castleton & Yukon Depot
If new Depot open by now is New 100st Depot & Coliseum Depot
Millennium Man 2000
Ah. What's Alan's e-mail address?
As a rookie operator I started at Mother Clara Hale and now I am a supervisor at this depot. It may be just that it has sentimental value or that Mother Hale is a very close family like depot but there is a expression that goes:
"You have Ta and Oa and then Mother Hale!"
Consolidated Fleet
overall fleet size increased to 1265 ,Peak requirements increased to 1073
Command Bus
--22 RTS04 retired ,1 RTS06 destroyed by fire.22 CNG Orions added,,,fleet now 133
Green Bus Lines
---Fleet increased by 6 ,,Peak incrased by 2
Jamaica----fleet still at 103
Liberty Lines
----no changes
NY Bus Service
----4 Orion 5.501 delivered
Queens Surface
----18 CNG Orions added ,21 RTS removed,,Fleet now 309 .Peak fleet now 276
Triboro Coach
----29 CNG added Orions 5.501,,,Fleet is 264 Total.Peak now increased to 201
Oct 1999 Changes and Notes----Only
Command Bus
4932 -4975 CNG Orion 5.501 1998
Green Bus
5501-5544 Orion 1997
New York Bus
1711-1714 Orion 5.501 1999
Queens Surface
500-581 Orion 5.501 1998 to 1999
700-705 Orion 5.501 1997
Triboro Coach
3000-3071 CNG Orion 5.501 1998
Inactive buses,pending Diesel Conversion and Transfer to unspecified Company
M1 ,M4 GMC RTS 06 1988
2136=2145
2147 TMC RTS 06 1994
Not all of Command's Orion Vs are 1998 models. 4932-4950,4961 and 4975 are 1998 models.
KayBee
Help me out,,,pass this around to your friends please.
http://www.onelist.com/community/NYCMETROAREABUSES.
Thanks for your future assistance
Steve
As of now,,,those interested in Reading the NYC Transit Committee Agendas and Destination Sign Readings,,,etc,,,will find this info on the One List Site
Effective Dec 1,1999
Please open the site with News Items and Observations
Steve
Join the group,,it is now archived
More info to follow
Steve
i saw #3188 a few weeks ago on Stillwell avenue in brooklyn. it was not having any ta labels on it, but can see the number. it looks in good position and it always seems to be by a police station. Is this bus used by police, or is it a extra bus that noone needs. I bet a depot could use it or send it to ENY to be repainted. please let me know what this bus is used for.
It's a police bus.
5 Routes
Steve
FDNY
E Route (East)
IFO 25 Union Sq West via Union Sq West,14 St ,3 avenue,Bowery ,East 3 ,Laguardia Place West 4 Street Stand
IFO 50 W 4
Return via W 4 St,Bowery,3 Av,E 14 ,Union Square East,E 17 St,,Union Sq West to stand
_-----------------------------------------------
N Route (North )
from NYU Main entrace 1 av and E 31 via 1 Ave ,East 34,FDR Drive,e 25 st,2 avenue,east 14 st,5 av,west 8 st,Broadway,east 3 to end of line nr Mercer St,return via 6 av,west 8 st,3 av,East 26 ,1 av to stand
teminal on 3 street bet Bopkin lane and Mercer,,after 6 PM ,IFO 100 Washington Square East via LaGuardia Place and West 4 St Eastbound
------------------------------------------------
West Route
9 Av at 34 st via 9 Av,14 st,Washington St,Morton St,Greenwich St,10 St,Mercer,or Broadway ,Houston St,Greewich ,,10 St,Hudson ,8 avenue,W 23,CHelsea Piers,West Side Hwy ,11 Av,23 st,1o Av,34 St ,,
not all Buses service Chelsea Piers,,,routing would be via 8 av,23 st,10 av ,34 st
----------------------------------------
80 route
via
IFO 80 Lafeyette to W 3 St Shimkin Hall
via w 3 ,,West BroadwaySpring,Lafeyette,Worth St,Centre,Lafeyette,West 3 St
after 8 PM IFO 40 W 4 St
----------------------------
South Route to follow,,presently being revised
I made what has become an infrequent trip into Manhattan yesterday and was disappointed with the only bus trip I took (with my wife and daughter). We were waiting at the Union Square terminal for a northbound M7 about 3:00 pm yesterday afternoon. When we got to the stop, there were 2 M7's waiting but closed and a number of people who had been waiting for the M7. A 3rd M7 came, but couldn't pull to the curb, so he turned west on East 14th Street and laid up at the M14 bus stop there. It seemed like we waited 10 to 15 minutes. The driver of the 1st bus came by a few times, but said he wasn't leaving yet. (Had to smoke his cigarette and chat with the other driver!) Finally, about 2 more M7's came down Union Square West and were blocking the street. The driver of the first bus finally got in and opened his bus, telling us the driver in back was also going to leave. We got in this 2nd bus, which left right after the 1st. A 3rd bus right in back of the 2nd also left at the same time. The 3 buses leap-frogged all the way up 6th Avenue, honking every time one passed one of the other two. I got the feeling that the 3 buses leaving at once and leap-frogging was a game the drivers were used to playing. Never mind that those waiting for the M7 had to endure a wait up to 3 times the normal wait. It was disheartening to see such unprofessional conduct and goes to show that the bunching complaints often heard are sometimes the drivers' own faults. I only hope that these drivers are the exception rather than the rule.
The driver probably lost his swing and took 20 minutes at the end of the line. They probably got sorted out later.
It ain't gonna get any better for the next month or so. That is even if they are running after the 15th!!
It unfortunate but NYC transit does not have the resources to have a supervisor everywhere. Im a dispatcher on the M7's but at the other end of the line at 146 St. I was just speaking to my supervisor about placing a dispatcher on the Union Square part of the line. But the usual response is that bus operators are trained and should know better than play these games. The plan is if there is a free mobile unit patrol car this supervisor would go down to Union Square to ensure all buses departed on time or would be placed on schedule. At the very least the dispatcher on 6 Av and 14 St should break them all apart.
Please accept my apologies as a supervisor of the M7's.
Hey buddy
just try to keep a your time point in manhattan. Hard thing to do. I start at 125 and go to south ferry and have 1 hour and 20min to do it. By the time a leave my first stop I'm late bye 3 min. People don't have the fare ready or metro card. Then there the Wheel chair. OK Now I'm at 116 st and I meet my leader (bus in front of me.) He's pickup a wheelchair. now my follow is behind me. You have 3 buses back to back. 96 st There two cab in the bus stop and only one bus can fit the other two bus must wait now my follow follow is behind me. That is 4 buses. I get to 57st and Con ED is working. now there a train of buses that mean that somewhere on this line there is no buses on the line became we are back up at 57st. Now I get to the ferry 20min late and my boss look funny at me and sent me dark uptown. as I pass bus stop full of people and my bus is emptey, Guess what? I see you stand in the cold wailing for 20 min for a bus.As I pass you, you tell me I'm number one with your middle figure as I drive by an 25mph. I make my first stop and Get crused out by everone because I'm 20 min late. I is not in A driver control.
Running Hot on the M15. Yea right. Move your $#% to the rear of the bus
That's exactly my point. At least the dispatcher at South Ferry is trying something. And if a dispatcher on 2 Av see's 4 M15's stuck together and lets you all keep on rolling he should be hung up on a rope. No one's saying you should be on schedule, just that supervisors should do their job and not just stand around writing numbers all day. On the same hand Operators at the end of the line without a supervisor should do their jobs and leave on time or least not all wait around till their leader goes first.
Fernando said: "On the same hand Operators at the end of the line without a supervisor should do their jobs and leave on time or least not all wait around till their leader goes first." I think that's the point I was trying to make.
With traffic in Manhattan worse than most places in the U.S., it is no surprise that buses have trouble keeping on schedule. The experience I had on the M7 last Saturday was somewhat different - at least 3 buses were at the starting point, but none of them left for a good 10-15 minutes. When one finally left, two others left at the exact same time. That shouldn't happen, and I will continue to believe that most of the time that doesn't happen. Fortunately, my wife and daughter did NOT give me their usual "We told you we should have taken the subway instead" speech after the long wait!
Your right, normally it does not happen. However, sometimes during a pick some operators will not like their follower or leader and then figure he going to screw him by not leaving or passing or whatever he feels will get him even with his enemy. The one who pays of course if the customers who have no idea of what the problem is.
And then ultimately we pay at NYCT with loss of ridership and a poorer public image.
I understand the union boss is demanding no less then 30% over a 3 year contract. If this union boss does not pull through, will bus operators follow him out on a strike? Also will the subway's new directions leaders follow? I was reading and watching these events for the past week or so, and i got to say that Mr. james does not seem to be the brightest star in the sky. He talks and acts like idiot from the streets. I hope that you guys get what you want. Because he will not be dealing with other idiot's across the table. Good Luck (T.A. workers) you will need it!!!
Today from the NJT train between Newark Penn Station And the new airport station, I saw what appeared to be a new Greyhound Road Bus which looked like an OTR version of the RTS. (Of course, it looked liek it was on steroids.) Is this a new bus? The bus was heading South on NJ Route 21 (presumably having left Newark[ their bus station is
at Penn]
Interesting! I know that Greyhound now has in their fleet some Prevost H3-45's. They seem to be following Greyhound Canada which has had this model in their fleet now for about 3 years. Now I am not sure about Greyhound but NJT now has a NovaBus SuperSuburban WFD (Wide Front Door
) #1401B which is an OTR version of the RTS which has no back door and no side destination sign along with roof mounted HVAC unit and shiny aluminum exhaust pipe. This bus also includes underfloor storage also if I remember correctly, but it does have interior parcel racks. It would be intersting if Greyhound was testing an RTS SuperSuburban but would it be cost effective for their needs?
Peace
DaShawn
No, Greyhound is NOT testing the RTS Super Suburban. Don't get your hopes up.
They DO have a couple demonstrator MCI 102EL3 "Renaissance" units out there, plus they have been taking delivery of MANY 102DL3's int he 6000 number series.
I have heard that the MCI Renaissance Coach is not permitted to operate in the Port Authority Bus Terminal because of its height. I had seen a Renaissance Coach on Short Lines once in a while many months back, but not recently. Does anyone on BusTalk know whether or not they are allowed in Port Authority?
These bus have a feature that allow the driver to lower the riding height to I think 4-6 inches. This allows the bus to pass under a low underpass or clearence. This restriction may be true for the lower levels but not for the upper levels. Olympia Trails to Newark Airport use high deck Neoplanes. Those buses are very high if you every saw one. Its the Cityliner model. If those can fit the MCI can fit.
Anything is possible! So it is not about getting hopes up at all. By the way Peter Pan has 2 EL3's in their fleet as we speak and my partner Trevor Logan has ridden one of the 2 units.
Peace
DaShawn
DaShawn-- Where did you hear that Greyhound has Prevost buses? I was aware that they had some of new model MCI Renaissance. I know that they have a couple of hundred 6000 series buses--- well into the 6300's. paul
Trevor Logan has just given me this information:
Quote: "The highest number DL3 from Greyhound is 6525 and their is a pic of it on TransiTalk." Also "I have spoted the H3-45 in service several times in the last 4 months". I hope this helps!
Peace
DaShawn
DaShawn-- Thanks for the information about the Prevost. When you saw it, was it in Greyhound livery? Do you think it was a demonstrator? Did you see in New York? If it was in Greyhound livery, did you catch the number of the coach? The reason I am so surprised is that Greyhound has been MCI for many years, with the exception of the Eagles that they got when they bought out Trailways. I think the Eagles leases are up soon, and they are going to be gone. Having an all MCI fleet, currently less than 200 MC-9's and between 1000 and 2000 MC 12 has made it easier to keep a parts inventory. I appreciate your help. paul
Greyhound in the past few years has been leasing a lot of extra buses for the busy holiday seasons. Generally, they lease equipment through the manufacturers, and last year a lot of it came from
"R. & J. McMynn Leasing" of Vancouver, British Columbia. Among the buses they got from McMynn last year (according to some lists sent by a Canadian bus fan) were some 102DL3's, Prevost H3-40's, and Dina Viaggios. (Or is that Viaggioes, dunno, gonna have to ask Dan Quayle.) Although most stayed solid white with just legallettering applied, a few were painted.
This could be the situation this year with the Prevost H3-45's, though as others have pointed out The 102DL3's thathave been purchased are all in the 6000 series -- but then, so were the leased buses last year and those have been documented as going elsewhere at the end of the busy holiday season. I believe the Dina's were being numbered in the 7000 series at the time.
Steve---- From what you describe of Greyhound leasing buses, I would guess that Greyhound drivers operate the buses. Is that so? From what you see do they seem short of their own equipment?
As I have observed in New York City, the buses used are from other carriers and they come with their own drivers. Greyhound people collect the tickets and keep them. Some of the private carriers have on their roll signs a sign saying In Service to Greyhound. I don't think I have ever seen a Greyhound driver operating one of these coaches. Or sometimes I have seen a white card put in the windshield saying something like Greyhound Lines.
The leased buses I was mentioning (i.e. from R. & J. McMynn) were operated by Greyhound. They came without drivers, just strictly equipment-only lessors. Many tour companies up in Canada lease from this outfit too.
I'd say it was just to have extra equipment for the busy holiday periods out here in the west.
In years gone by, they DID lease buses from other companies and those came WITH drivers. As I understand, those companies sometimes required their drivers to have a Greyhound uniform, plus the buses would carry placards indicating their operation in service for Greyhound. One such company I remember doing so was Antelope Valley Bus Lines in Lancaster, CA (now just another Coach USA operator...)
Actually it was I that saw the Prevost H3-45 and it was more that one that I saw, about a good 10 of them at random times not together. I called Prevost myself and inquired about the buses, these are not leased nor are they the Canadian-Versions of Greyhound Buses.
DaShawn received his information from me. Based on the fact we are close in contact on a daily basis. So direct question to me from DaShawns post cause more or less his info is from me!
Also, I rode on NJ Transit's NABI 436 Articulated and NovaBUS RTS-06 WFD Super Suburban. Real nice buses. You are in for a treat should you ride the WFD Super Suburban. The NABI demo has been returned to NABI!
Trevor Logan
Co-Webmaster
TransiTALK Platinum Y2K
http://www.geocities.com/transitalk/
Greyhound used to operate suburban fishbowls years ago on the west coast. Could they be getting some of those routes again which would require a suburban coach. I saw a Greyhound MCI (either 103D3 or 102DL3) on the NJ Turnpike with new paint scheme.
Wayne
This bus (RTS look alike) was all white with the stripes and a big grehound on the front under the windshield. The rear "windshield" is white. I did not get a bus number- I was on the train going home from work.
I learned something about a Greyhound operation of a transit system on the West Coast in California that surprised me. They were providing local transit services in the mid 50's through the 60's with Mack C-49 buses. I found this out on a yahoo club that has been starting up slowly about Greyhound. It is clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/greyhoundbuslines The son of a driver from back then posted the information. I would love to get a picture of the C-49's in Greyhound livery, although I just realized it might be in a local livery colors and marked operated by Greyhound.
Yes, you're 100% correct! They DID have Mack C49's on their west coast commuter/local services. Prior to those, they had, I believe GM/Yellow Coach "old looks".
I believe the Pacific Bus Museum may have one of the old Greyhound Mack's in its collection, however it is not in running condition. Last I saw it (aout 15 years ago) it was in not-so-good shape, needed a paint job really bad then, and I doubt if it has been done since.)
Along with the Mack C-49's, they did have GM TDM4801's which were a California-only model (along with the automatic transmission, transit version, the TDH4801).
In later years, some GM TDM5303's (newlooks) joined the Macks and TDH4801's in the bay area services; the Santa-Monica-Long Beach route and the San Diego-San Ysidro border route were entirely TDM5303's by 1968. Some of the TDM5303's on the border service actually had a GREEN stripe in place of the blue (Mexico's colors are red, white, and green) in the late 1970's Greyhound paint scheme.
More REALLY wishful thinking, Wayne. It simply ain't gonna ever happen. Greyhound isn't about to toss $$$ away trying to take over any of these services. Besides, they'd have to charge MUCH higher fares just to break even, and the patrons are already balking about the high fares charged by public transit agencies.
Greyhound ran local routes from San Francisco to Marin County until 1972 when Golden Gate Bridge, Highway & Transportation District (aka "Golden Gate Transit") took everything over there. (Greyhound was actually the contract operator when GGT started, supplying drivers, maintenance, dispatching).
Greyhound also ran local commuter service to Walnut Creek and Concord. Guess what? BART rapid transit (rail) covers that now, and tere are local transit districts doing all the local stuff out in those neighborhoods.
Then there was the Santa Monica-Long Beach route. That was taken over by Southern California Rapid Transit District in 1975 as their route 175. It subsequently was renumbered to 232. I'm not sure what it is today; I avoid going into Los Angeles County as much as possible.
Let's go to San Diego -- Greyhound ran service from downtown San Diego to the Mexican border at San Ysidro/Tijuana. In case nobody knows, San Diego Trolley has been running THAT one as a rail route since 1981.
There is just NO WAY Greyhound would even THINK of trying to run these services again.
I didn't think so either - I was just wondering why Greyhound would be interested in a suburban coach.
Wayne
From Trevor Logan:
A) The reason for looking at a coach like the SuperSuburan WFD is for possible short intercity service. ie: NYC-Philly, NYC-Conn.
B) Quit the cockiness!
This is for information, not saying that Greyhound already has a RTS SuperSuburban Demo. This is SPECULATION.
DaShawn Pretlow - TransiTalk Co-Webmaster
for Trevor Logan - TransiTalk Co-Webmaster
Since the signs on these buses are defective (all except for GL 5503)
why can't they reman or send these buses back to Orion and get in return the new led destination sign like what are on the CNG'S?
If the MTA can do that with the 7000s (from mini to large signs), they can do this with the DOT buses.
MM2000
Co-Webmaster TransiTalk
TransitTalk just returned from DC where those Orions came from and every destination sign was working on the 1997 Orions. I guess its a problem with the DOT just not knowing how to fix them.
Kevin
TransiTALK
I think the problem may be at GBL because the rest of them (212) at WMATA seem to be fine.
Wayne
The WMATA buses at Queens Surface also have inoperative signs. Could this be the result of the harsh environment? Are their any other operators in the immediate tri-state area that use Vultron signs?
I'm concerned about the CNG's that are arriving at QS, CTC and Command. What if the problem at JG occurs at 1 of these 3 depots? We have to have standbys. And if these depots are getting rid of the RTS-04s, then they'll be extremely short on buses.
MM2000
CO-Webmaster TransiTalk
Refresh my memory what was the problem at JG?? Why should the cng's not function as well?
The CNG fueling station at JG is non-functional, it leaks and has had small explosions in the pressurized piping.
-Hank
Thanks. Fueling stations are the most critical part of a CNG bus program The bues are not too bad to deal with but the stations are quirky at best.
The NYC fire department made them install extra things on the stations in the city too. Thats why LI BUS had the CNG's running first.
The vendor that installed ours is not doing business in the midwest anymore. I think they also insalled JG. One of the techs that worked on ours worked out there after ous was running.
QSC has a fair number of TMC RTS's and the ever faithful MCI Classics that are getting overhauled. This is not to say that the sidelining of CNG's will not affect things.
Does anyone know if NYCT will have more new buses for 2000, if so, what manufacture will built these buses, how many buses will be ordered & what depots will they be assigned to.
Post information on bustalk.
Sincerely,
Michael
Saw 4099 on the Q54 the other night. It was the first time I saw an NYCT RTS with two red directionals in the rear in a long time. If I remember the very early RTS's had red directionals factory-installed. There also appeared to be a problem with them as the left would blink like 5 times, stop, then the right ones would flash three and repeat. I just happened to follow it about a mile down Met and it did the same thing the whole time. Either a malfunction or its a new b/o just not being able to figure out where to put his left foot.
It's an FP bus...enough said!
Hey was this one of the RTS out of FP with "Bronx Style" numbers?....I saw her on the Q-54 as well up in Queens where I'm from
Ex-Kingsbridge 4212 was the one with the Bx-style rear number. They removed it in favor of the MTA logo. It now has no rear number at all.
4212 is now with Fresh Pond right?????
B46M Limited
Yes, it is. It has moved around much in it's career
Wayne
Some of buses in the bronx still have Bx-Style rear number & some of i seen is Kingsbridge Depot. Some of 4100series have Bx-Style.
Millennium Man 2000
I believe 4186 is the only one left. That's in JG now.
What is a Bronx Style rear number? Are those the ones that are sort of in a script-type form?
Back around 1990-91, several Bronx buses had their rear number plates stolen by vandals. The faster Bronx depots replaced them, the faster they were removed again. Eventually, Bronx Division got wise to these guys and used number stickers on the lower left hand corner or the rear of an RTS (the "black" portion just below the a/c blowers). Since this style of bus numbering was exclusive to only the Bronx, the term Bronx-style rear numbers started. It looked kinda cool to see an ex-Bronx bus in other boroughs with Bronx-style rear numbers. A slew of old 1981 2500's from KB ran in Fresh Pond and Flatbush service during the early 1990's, most of which had Bx-style numbers.
1834 out of JG has 2 numbers on it.
Q66#384Gary
Everyone talks about Bronx-style numbers but for those of us who remember when the first order of NYCTA RTS's arrived, that was the original style of numbering on all TA & MaBSTOA buses.
What IS Bronx Style numbering and what makes it unique?
That is true about the 1981 and 1982 RTS's. In fact the '82's came in with the full "PA1757" number while the 81's did not have the "PA". The first order with number plates was the 1983's.
The 1981 GMC RTS originally had the fleet number on the left (drivers' side) of the engine access door. They started adding the lett numbers above a bit later. I think the 1982 did also in addition to the larger numbers above them. MABSTOA depots in Manhattan started adding the number plates at the rear when they had the advertisement racks mounted on the engine door. These ads would block most of the fleet number in the "Bronx-Style" location which is probably why they started mounted the number plates centered high up. Does anyone remember those rear mounted ad racks??? They didn't last very long.
Wayne
I remember those rear ad racks and they did block the bus serial number when installed. Fresh Pond had them but I think QV never did get around to install them. They didn't last too long. They were replaced by the sticker type ads like they have now. Some of those early rear sticker ads were much larger and took up half the rear of the bus.
I took a pic of 4099 today at Queens Center Mall but it's a front-passenger side view. I also have a rear pic of her on the last stop of the B20 but she came out a bit far. That's why it's not up on TransiTalk. If anybody wants to see the pic anyway, I'll have it scanned and emailed to you by Saturday. Just email me and let me know that you want it. Thanks!
MM2000
The "Bronx style #'s have been used since the TA since the TA switched from the all blue scheme on its old new look flexibles and fishbowls to the current Blue /white scheme (only exception was the Grummans which had the smaller #'s(at least the white #'s)
Actually sometime around 1980 NYCTA/MABSTOA started placing the numbers on the top of the rear window (right side) of new look GM and Flxibles. At this time they had a problem with the nubers peeling off easily on the re-painted buses. Many Bronx RTS had the number on the right side, but newer RTS that had their number plates replaced with decals had their numbers on the left side because the rear mounted route sign was on the right side.
Another topic - does anyone remeber that small group of MABSTOA Flxible new looks (1969 and 1975) that had a slightly different paint scheme? I remember a couple of them - 4670, 7909. In the early 80's they were operating out of Kingsbridge depot and and the fron of the bus the blue stripe went up and over the roof (like the old TNJ Flxible paint scheme)- instead of around the front end.
Wayne
You have some memory Wayne. I remember the rear mounted ads on the 1981 and 1982's as well as the small engine door number on the '81's.
Here is something for you. Do you recall that the first of the full length ads for the RTS was a long black ad for "New Kool Ultra" cigarettes? I remember that ad vividly on buses PA1551 and PA1557 out of QV. I am sure they were much more of those long full-length ads on MaBSTOA RTS's.
Yes, they were big on that in Manhattan.
Wayne
Im not sure if anyone may have posted the following and I apologize if they did.
The M20 will have 25 Runs and will run between 63St and Broadway and Battery Park city.
The M10 will have 49 Runs and will run between 31St and 159St.
The M23 will be going to Westside depot and the M34 will be going to Hudson depot.
Also my apology's to Hank for flying off the handle. The operator involved in the Brooklyn fatality was a friend of my as a child.
I was just wonderning if the M23 was going to be getting articulated buses in January 2000 when it goes to WEst Side Depot.
Please post on bustalk.
Sincerely,
Michael
Look like M23 is going to have New Flyer Articlated soon & West Side Depot is getting 110 Articlated buses from the Gun Hill & Kingsbrige Depot.
Millenium Man 200
The M14 needs arctics a LOT more.
Well wait in two years because Hudson Depot will be close in 2001 when new 100st Depot open & rest of routes will go to West Side Depot.
Millennium Man 2000
"The M14 needs arctics a LOT more."
Are these the busses with the industrial strength air conditioners?
"Are these the busses with the industrial strength air conditioners?"
No, they are buses that are extra long, articulated. We used arctics as shorthand/abbrevation.
In actuallity they do have industrial strength AC and Heating! They are quite a pleasure to ride on a really hot summer day!
Peace
DaShawn
P.S.
Trevor Logan saw 5256-5260 heading toward GWB probably on it's way to GunHill depot and they were quite fast!
4342 was on the Q46 this morning "naked" of it's ads. Is 4115 at JG?
Haven't seen her in a while.
MM2000
"No, they are buses that are extra long, articulated. We used arctics as shorthand/abbrevation."
Short for what? Antarctic?
" 'No, they are buses that are extra long, articulated. We used arctics as shorthand/abbrevation.'
Short for what? Antarctic?"
No, I just said short for arcticulated.
Sorry, that's ARTiculated, art like in MOMA or the Met, or Whitney. So it's ARTIC. Only one C.
Will the M20 still run the same times? (I mean, like, on the same schedule as it used to when it was the M10.
A few years ago, a couple of busses used to be seen in the NYC area which have never been seen again.
One of them appeared to be a sight seeing/charter bus. The bus looked like the newer busses seen on Greyhound and Academy bus. The strange thing about this bus was that it was articulated, much like the New Flyers. I assumed a few charter companies purchased this bus as a test or prototype. I had seen these busses in revenue service, but they no longer appear to be around.
Another bus that was seen in the Manhattan and surrounding areas was a bus that appeared to be European in appearance. It looked like a double decker, but there was only half of the second floor present. It looked like some kind of touring bus. It was red and had European plates.
If anyone knows anything about these busses, please post. Thanks.
Articulated - There haven't been many articulated intercity coaches, but Prevost builds one (model H5-60). Hampton Jitney uses them in Long Island to Manhattan service. I don't know of any other articulated intercity operating in or around the NYC area.
The double-decked bus was probably one of the Leyland or Neoplans that are operated by then sightseeing companies. Many of them are former London Transport buses and I heard that some of the Neoplans are former SCRTD (now LAMTA inLos Angeles) buses.
Wayne
I haven't seen ANY H5-60's in Hampton Jitney service recently. All I have spotted along the LIE have been H3-41's and 45's. By the way, Harran has some beautiful paint schemes on a couple of their H3-45's.
Speaking of unusual sightings, here is a partial list of the JG 'imposter' buses used for their CNG replacement:
468,470(AMS);3900,3937,3944(GH);173(MCH);4152,4156,4159,4162(HUD); 3460,3483(MV);4130(WS);632(CS);4349,4573,4583,4585(JAM);3910,3946(QV); 6196,6198,6201,6211,6234(CAS); 6337-6343,6345(YUK). 33 borrowed buses.
The roofless "double deck" buses I've seen are definitely Neoplan N117/3's that ame from SCRTD (LACMTA, not LAMTA -- LAMTA died in 1965). Chicago Sightseeing Comapny also got a few and did the same thing.
I imagine they aren't worth a shit for a tour if it's raining....
When the 3000's RTS came out they had the same electronic display as the 1200-1500's only brighter. Soon after the 4300-4800's came out the electronic displays on the 3000's were changed to the same thing as the 4600 and 4700's. Why???????
B46M Limited
Actually they were not changed only the rear was changed to the same style as the units you just described. The controller for the signs were the same as the 1200-25xx series but the charcter size was larger and the 3000 series introduced the use of the rear destination signs for NYCT RTS's. I remember that after a while alot of the rear destination signs stopped functioning and a few units had the rear sign removed. 3222 was a pefect example when she was at 100 street. The Gultan ODK controller used on the 4300 series and above had more memory for storage of destination information and therefore the 3000 series followed suit to keep uniformity with the current fleet. Hope that helps as I to remember those times.
Peace
DaShawn
The original buses (1200-15xx and 2200-25xx) employed “TransDot” electronic signs (manufactured by Transign). Then some buses in the 15xx series utilized signs manufactured by Gulton which was similar to those of the ill-fated Grumman buses, but different from that what was to be used on the 15xx-1855 and 2580-2704 series buses. The 3000-42xx buses originally used TransDot signs (by this time manufactured by Vultron, Inc.) and then were retrofitted with Gulton / Luminator signs, as you said, after the 4300-48xx series arrived on the scene. Personally, I preferred the Gulton series typesetting over TransDot’s.
Thanks for the info guys!!!!!!!!!
B46M Limited
Transdot signs were used on all 1981 buses (1201-1658, 2201-2579) including the 6V-92 and express coaches. The same sign was also used on the 1983-1985 RTS-04's (3000-3325, 3400-4218) until they were retrofitted with Luminator signs about 1993 or so. Just as a side note, 1984 RTS's 3600-3605 and 3612-3614 were the first to be retrofitted in 1989 while in Jamaica Depot. Their signs were EXACT identicals to those used on the 1986-1987 RTS's. The rest of the 1983-1985 fleet joined them about 4-5 years later.
Actually, I vaguely remember Luminator signs (NOT the variation used on 1659-1855 and 2580-2704, but rather a variation somewhere between that used on the ill-fated Grummans and the aforementioned RTS numbers) being utilized on the last few RTS buses in the series up to 1658. But thanks for the info anyway.
While i was driving & i saw GMC-RTS #3220 on Bruckner Expressway heading south. I thought GMC-RTS #3220 was scrap & stored at Hudson Pier Depot. There is about 5 driver in the bus & i took a close look at the sign & say "Training Bus". I wonder why the bus doing in the Bronx? Where is the road test at the Bronx for buses??? Look like the bus just came back from the dead.
Millennium Man 2000
I have a pic of this bus, www.fortunecity.com/marina/tributary/327/3220gmc.jpg
Peace Out
-Clayton
3220 is a training bus at hudson pier.
have any of you rode the bus here in los nageles ??
the graffiti coated monsters that are never on time always late etc ??
On the dash of the new Orion 6000 series there is a small strip to the
right of the steering wheel. On the bottom there is a red button. O the top of the strip there is a small light that saids "Power On" I think. ANyone know what that thing is for?
Well, it says POWER ON. Maybe it's lit when the power is off.
Sorry for the sarcasm, I'm getting very crabby this time of day.
The 6000 series are hybrids and use batteries charged by a generator attached to the diesel engine.
It is not a batteries charder light. It is for the fire system. There are two different veresion of this system one that is told about and one that is above the drives head that looks like a box with a small circle on it. I do not know how the same type bus can have two different system. Also the new RTS's also ether of these system.
The buses that have the strip don't have the square with the circle, and vice versa.
The buses that have the strip don't have the square with the circle, and vice versa. Also, I've seen the ones with the square&circle onm the dashbards of some RTS's.
Not all the 6000 series are hybrids. There are currently only 4 (or 5) in service, 6350-6354, and several more are on order. The rest of the 6000 series are your standard straight diesels.
-Hank
On Monday afternoon at 415, no less than 31!!!!!!!!! operators who should have been working on the road were sitting in Gleason waiting for buses.
This included: 5 runs on the 9, 1 on the 11, 4 on the 16, 1 on the 23, 3 on the 35, 3 on the 43, 2 on the 51, 1 on the 61, 3 on the 63, 4 on the 67, 3 on the 68 and 1 on the 69.
I believe a few of these guys pulled in mechanical defects and had to wait for another bus to pull out.
THAT IS TRULY UNBELIEVABLE THAT THE TA CAN ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN. ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE 30 FRESHLY PAINTED OVERHAULED BUSES SITTING IN X-TOWN FOR AN EMERGENCY. WHAT A CROCK!!!!
That is not unbelievable. What is unbelievable is the NYCTA didn't write up 31 B/Os for goofing off. The TA was angrier that they had to pay them then they were for the loss of buses. Do you realize what you are asking of the NYCTA and it's associated politicians? JG serves South Brooklyn for pete's sake. That is why Hudson Pier has thirty extra buses. The funny thing is really only a month ago, thirty buses were sold on the South Brooklyn Railway lot at CostCos at auction to a outfit in Mass and drove up there on their own wheels. They were selling the wheels BEFORE they bought the tires.
Back in the early '70s, GMC 5301 models, WITH A/C, were running on the M104 line. After checking several production lists, I can not find these buses. All I can find is that Fifth Avenue Coach Lines purchased 10 TDH 5301 models and numbered them 1-10. Around the same time NYCTA purchased 190 TDH 5301 models and numbered them 1-190. Were these TDH 5301 buses, with A/C, renumbered to 3211-3220? Were they the only A/C 5301s?
Yes, these TDH-5301's came from Fifth Ave Coach and went to MABSTOA where they were renumbered. I was too young to remember their fleet numbers, but some were at Kingsbridge depot also. I could see them on the BX20 route from our window. Because I was very young -obviously I didn't know model designations, fleet numbers etc., but I do remember seeing them and I knew they were "different" because of the A/C unit. NYCTA/MABSTOA had lots of TDH-5301's but they did not have A/C.
Wayne
These TDH 5301's were airconditioned, 5 running in the Bronx, 5 in anhattan. Original #'s 1-5; 6-10. When absorbed into the new MABSTOA fleet, they got the "32"-hundred designation, as did many TDH 5106's,
which were originally "10"-hundreds and "30"-hundreds. What an exciting time that was!
Joe C
The renumbering wasn't quite as simple as just adding "32" to the front of the numbers. There were a few, shall we say, quirks, to the renumbering due to other series buses being around.
Here's the breakdown I have:
3101-3210 TDH5301 remained 3101-3210
1-10 TDH5301 (a/c) became 3211-3220
3020 TDH5106 became 3260
3021-3059 TDH5106 became 3221-3259
The Surface TDH5106's as delivered, were 3020-3059. Rather than have to change all four digits, 3020 got the only such renumbering, and the rest just had the "0" covered with a "2". I remember these well; the new "2" was a slightly different typeface/size so it stuck out like a sore thumb! The 3020/3260 seemed to have gotten a complete repaint around the time of the renumbering, to the two-tone NYCTA-style green. I used to see it on the Bx12 all the time when I lived just off Fordham Road.
Originally the fishbowls were assigned as follows:
Fith Avenue Coach . . . 1 - 5 (a/c)
3101 - 3160 (no a/c)
Surface Transit . . . 6 - 10 (a/c)
3161 - 3260 (no a/c)
and as stated, 1-10 were renumbered 3211-3220 (in 1962) but kept their original colors. Later they were repainted into the dark green scheme and recieved the roof-top radio blisters. Originally the driver's stanchion (horizontal) as ordered by Fifth Ave. were curved at the fare box, MaBSTOA replaced these with the standard straight stanchion.
These 10 were the second set of a/c buses in New York City (this does not include buses used for intercity and suburban runs, etc.)
(Actually the first a/c buses in NYC were 3100(TDH 5106 and bought by Fifth Ave. and now part of the Museum fleet) and 3200 (TDH 5105, a demo)
The first a/c buses bought by MaBSTOA/NYCTA were the TDH 5303s with billboard signs that came in 1967 and numbered 8001-8202 (TA) and 8301-8780 (OA) -- to me, these were the best buses the city ever bought!
The first Flxibles with a/c were 4000-4202 and 4600-4727 that came in 1969-1970.
I believe 3211-3219 were sent to the scrapper? Are buses 3222 and 3248 still used fro training or will these be replaced too?
Q66#384Gary
Re: TDH-5303 A/C - I agree - I think these were the best buses purchased by NYCTA also. The seemed to be the backbone of the fleet for many, many years. On those late night runs in the Bronx (Kingsbridge routes) you could count on getting one. I was also very fond of the T6H-5309A's.
Wayne
The low 8000's series Fishbowls were the most durable (even after the Blitz remanufacturing -when they were renumbered in the 5000's) they last until 1992 a good 25 -26 yrs
In the film, Sunday In New York, Jane Fonda meets Rod Taylor on board number 3117. The bus is painted in green with an old Johnson coffee grinder fare box. The driver appears to be in the old dark gray Fifth Avenue uniform. Listen to the drivers announcements.
Later Fonda boards another fishbowl, however, the number is obscured. But this bus is still in the Fifth Avenue green/yellow color scheme. When they get off through the back door, you can partially see the Manhattan and Bronx . . . script along the roof.
I think 3215 had the same thing in the rear. The "2" was a different style than the other numbers on the bus. I remember cause I rode this bus when it was out of QV on the Q88.
Q66#384Gary
But you're talking about RTS's, aren't you?
Sorry if I may have omitted bus models, but the ones I was posting about were some 1959 GM Old Looks. Those 3200 series numbers were used a second time around, on some RTS's delivered in the 1980's.
You answered my answer! True, it was not that simple, but I never stated that. I said the 32-hundred designation (aka 4 digits, ie 3211, etc)was adapted. Sorry I was not more specific; thought it was understood.
True about that "2", though. But don't forget the 5106's in the "10" hundreds (ie 1080) that became 3200's (ie 3280). And the TDH5104's that were 1090 thru 1099 and became 2590 to 2599. Pure joys to see & ride. I remember them all on the Coliseum routes, Kingsbridge routes and later West Farms. Some eventually made it to the TA to replace their own 5106's.
Joe C
According to the GM production lists I have, those TDH5106's were originally 1060-1089.
As I mentioned (and even had a photo of) 3260 being the former 3020, with the bulging destination sign box -- wonder what happened to 1060, as I do remember (as Joe points out) the bunch being renumbered into 3200's also.
I emember them on those same routes Joe mentions -- I wonder if we ever crossed paths while I lived in the Bronx during those years!
Are you guys talking about RTS 3211-3220?
Q66#384Gary
No - This is about old MaBSTOA (GMC TDH-5301) buses.
Wayne
Steve,
Not sure if we did, although I ran into many fans during my h.s.days of the 1960's. However, we did have dinner one night with either McKane or Allen Fong a few years ago, probably at an MBS convention time. We sure did talk about the Bronx, too.
Joe
Steve,
Not sure if we did, although I ran into many fans during my h.s.days of the 1960's. However, we did have dinner one night with either McKane or Allen Fong a few years ago, probably at an MBS convention time. We sure did talk about the Bronx, too.
BTW, Barnes & Noble has a new book called "The Bronx, Lost, Found & Remembered", which has a good section devoted to Surface Transit and also about el trains. Lots of good b&w shots there.
Santa, are you listening??
Joe C
Yes, I remember when you were out here in southern California. You'd never recognize the area where you stayed around Disneyland!! That hotel is completely gone (it's nowpart of DL's driveways....)
Thanks for the advice on that book, will look for it!
Too bad about that! The hotel was good, and not too expensive.
BTW, I hope Hansa House Smorgasbord is still there!!
Joe C
Still is, just as good as ever though the $$ went up.