Hank, I must apologize for being so rude a few days ago. I saw the posts and I just flipped out. But just don't be so perfect cause nobody is. We are bound to make spelling errors, but if we make a major mistake, we should be corrected but in a proper and polite way. This room is strictly for bustalk and not for any negative or racial remarks. Back to the buses! Are buses 495 and 497 at QS in service yet?
FR
Not quite ... both have fareboxes & (I think) both were on a lift.
Now we invite DOT to slap a sticker on them, THEN they're ready.
BTW, they also need some orange paint ... don't know exactly why Orion doesn't do that anymore.
Mr t__:^)
Just saw yesterday Command Orion #4961. Instead of the usul green flipdots, it hs a brilliant orange LED display, as is used on some road work signs. It is so bright it is visible from far away in the daytime, and this with pure LED's, no flipdots like the new TA/NJT green LED signs.
Green Bus #5503 has the same sign(with out the sign in the back)That is a great sign not only that you see it ,but that it works .About a 1/4 to 1/2 of GBL's Orions are out.A change to this sign would help them greatly.(the signs are out is what i mean)
A number of TA Orions also have non-functional signs. My guess is that the connectors weren't properly secured when tyhey left the factory, and they are rattling loose.
-Hank
i saw it months ago and it is definitely what nyct should be using. is this still experimetal though?
This morning I was on QS 530, a CNG Orion express bus and noted that one of the windows has fallen victim to scratchiti. Knowing that Triboro sometimes uses the CNG soft seaters on the Q53, has anyone else seen windows or any other parts of the coach (e.g., cut seats) vandalized? Did QS, CTC or Command take some of the steps that NYCT has to protect the windows?
Was saying hello to one of our drivers this AM, who happens to be the the chairman of the local TWU. Apparently one of our VPs took his bus to Wall Street for a meeting, probally at DOT ... that's nice.
I'm looking forward to my trip later this month, but I'll include some subway rides too.
Mr t__:^)
Received my Sept/Oct issue of trade publ. Metro, it caught my eye right away because the words "The 10 Best Small No. Am. Transit Ageicies" is plastered right accross TA #6354. Who ever decided the layout gets my vote & must have took Marketing 101 at college.
In case you're interested & don't have access to this publ., top ten are: Blacksburg, VA; Juneau, AL; Fairfax, VA; Culver City, CA; Kentville, NS; Martha's Vineyard; Muncie, IN; Huntington, VA; Pompano Beach, FL; & Waco, TX.
Why was TA on the cover ... largest fleet ... a survey of 100 bus operations they do once or twice a year.
You probally can buy a subscription, e-mail me off-line for their address if you're interested.
Mr t__:^)
I GOT MY ISSUE!!!! YEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!
I got 2 of them for some reason though!
Trevor
Hi; What is the official policy for issuing (or not issuing) cont. transfers on a bus not going all the way? It is one of Transit's more perplexing situations. My experience with this is that it varies from B/O to B/O. Can someone clarify whether these can be issued, e.g. on the M1 sb at B'way & 8th St? I was told that I must initially get on a South Ferry bd bus, if I intend to travel to Canal St., for instance. I could cite many other examples. Can someone perhaps quote an official bulletin?
The paper/mag Transfer is only issued on the bus (except SI) when you pay in cash. Physically the driver can pop one out anytime. This depot has reverted bcak to those long paper ones for our cutomers who want to transfer between O-U-R buses (we have a couple of Express routes where they want to do that). "Continuating" trasfer wouldn't be required on the same route after 18 minutes. On our Q101 we get a few folks that realize they want to continue to Rikers. We give them a paper/mag and the other driver lets them board.
Mr t__:^)
From the Staten Island Advance 9/30/99 www.silive.com
Posted with assumed permission, as they allow you to email their articles.
Bus depot money still a little hazy
There's $25 million for Staten Island bus depot expansion in the MTA's 5-year plan, but it's not clear if that money will go for additions or for a new garage
September 30, 1999
By MICHAEL WAGNER
ADVANCE STAFF WRITER
A third bus depot could be in the works for Staten Island following yesterday's last-minute negotiations between transit officials and borough representatives.
The Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) approved its $17.5 billion five-year plan -- which now goes to the state Legislature for a vote -- with a $25 million chunk scheduled for Staten Island bus depot expansion.
But exactly what that money will fund, whether it's additions to the Island's two existing depots or an entirely new facility, is still not clear, even though Borough President Guy Molinari said he got a verbal agreement from the board's chairman, Virgil Conway, to build the Island a much-needed third depot.
"At this point, I don't know what that entails," said Tom Kelly, spokesman for the MTA board. "But the borough president talked with the chairman and he said he would be agreeable to such a thing if it could be worked out."
Jim Simpson, the Island representative on the board, said he and Molinari hammered out the verbal agreement for the new depot, as well as a few million dollars for a new train station at the soon-to-be-built minor league baseball stadium in St. George, after the board approved the five-year plan.
"There are a lot of things in the plan," Simpson said. "And there's room to add and delete things. The chairman used his powers as chairman to see that we get money for the two things."
Molinari said Conway would fund the project, currently outlined at around $50 million, even if it exceeds the $25 million laid out for it. But Simpson said he thinks it can be built for far less than the projected cost.
"I would like to see us bring it in for a lot less," he said. "We don't want to build it to be nuclear-proof. We can cut the construction time and the costs together. I'd rather see the money go to new buses rather than new bus garages."
Still, the details about where the money scheduled for the Island will go remain cloudy, and some say the agreement will hold no water, considering how volatile the contentious third depot's 30-year history has been.
"(The MTA) has regularly included a third depot in their five-year plans," said Larry Hanley, president of the Amalgamated Transit Union, Local 726, which represents Island bus drivers and mechanics. "Frankly, it's a day late and a dollar short."
A third garage on the Island, one that would presumably be built on the South Shore, now seems more important than ever. With nearly $10 million worth of buses parked on side streets around the Yukon and Castleton Avenue facilities and more than 100 new buses set to arrive on Staten Island by November, the time is ripe to build these buses a new home.
"I think we need one -- absolutely, positively, no doubt about it," said Simpson.
Molinari noted that the 230 new express buses the Island has acquired over the last few years take up more room because they are about five feet longer than the ones they replaced. He said a new garage is needed to accommodate the growing fleet and bigger buses.
Simpson agreed, but said part of the reason the money for the depot has been so difficult to secure is simply a matter of priorities.
"The question really comes down to, do we get increased service or a third depot?" Simpson said. "We need the depot now that we have the buses. They go hand in hand. But it's like a car. You don't have a garage, so do you get the car? The point is, you need the service right away.
"I'm pretty happy with what Staten Island has been getting," he added. "But that doesn't mean we shouldn't get that third depot."
The board's five-year plan will also pave the way for the purchase of more than 1,000 new buses citywide, the addition of MetroCard vending machines in the St. George ferry terminal, renovations at two Staten Island Railway stations (Nassau and Atlantic), and the beginning of a Second Avenue subway line in Manhattan, which has created the most significant pull on the MTA's resources.
But Hanley said the disparity in city funding to Staten Islanders compared with riders in other boroughs is atrocious. He said the city is essentially ignoring the needs of more than 100,000 Island commuters.
"The impact of this goes far beyond 2004," he said. "Our population is going to boom between now and then and the lack of planning now is only going to make it worse. We're going to need roller skates to get to work."
According to a 1997 study by the Institute for Transportation and Development Policy, each Island transit rider receives 39 cents per ride in annual capital investments, compared with the citywide average of 87 cents. Hanley said the ratio has improved only slightly in recent years.
"For them to say they're not going to invest money in Staten Island is an outrage," he said. "Think about the insult in that."
Hanley said he does not think the depot will be built soon, considering this latest agreement is just that -- an agreement -- and one that has been broken by several administrations many times before.
In the meantime, millions of dollars' worth of city buses continue to sit on already-congested roads and clog neighborhood thoroughfares around both the Castleton and Yukon depots. Bus fumes, oil leaks and traffic around these facilities infringe on the lives of residents who live near them.
Transit is parking buses wherever it can find the space. On Forest Hill Road, across from the Yukon facility, the agency is constructing two additional lanes for bus parking. And at the Arthur Kill Road/Richmond Avenue turnaround in Eltingville, buses sleep overnight out in the elements, awaiting their morning runs.
In 1988, the MTA acquired the property adjacent to the Castleton Avenue depot to store buses until the third depot was to be built. The buses are still there.
"Now they have problems in two communities [around Castleton and Yukon]," Hanley said. "These buses cost half a million dollars and they're just leaving them on the streets."
Hanley suggested that a viable alternative to a new garage would be to renovate the depot behind Edgewater Plaza off Bay Street in Clifton, a facility which closed in 1985 and one the MTA already owns. Today it serves as a lot for old, broken-down buses.
"They could store 150 to 180 buses there," he said. "It would take a little bit of work, but it's a facility that they own."
Melissa Farley, a spokeswoman for New York City Transit, said the problem with Edgewater is that the buses that need the additional space are ones that serve the South Shore and it would be impractical to store them on the North Shore, only to run them south each morning.
The third depot has been a hot-button issue since the mid-1970s, when the Yukon depot was just in the planning phase. In a letter dated June 3, 1974, from Richard Irwin, executive vice president of the Staten Island Chamber of Commerce, to then-borough president Robert Connor, Irwin wrote: "Long-range needs will require additional facilities. Sound planning suggests identifying future requirements and earmarking sites for future facilities."
One potential site that has been mentioned more than once over the years sits on a 120-acre swath of land at the intersection of Arthur Kill Road and Englewood Avenue in Charleston, one of the last remaining large plots of city-owned land still undeveloped on the Island.
Developers have talked about building superstores there, like Home Depot or Target, but the plot could also share a bus depot, like the Yukon facility, which sits next to large shopping plazas.
But residents in the area are afraid they, too, could suffer the same fate as neighborhoods near the Yukon and Castleton garages.
"I think for them to build a bus depot on the spot they're talking about, they'd have to be out of their minds," said Owen Reiter, founder of the Charleston Civic Association. "As it is now, Arthur Kill Road is a two-lane, narrow, winding, dangerous road. To try to put an entire fleet of buses out there doesn't make sense."
Reiter said buses from the Yukon garage can easily make it down to Charleston or Tottenville in a matter of minutes, whereas areas like New Dorp and South Beach are much less convenient to the two existing garages.
"From either of [the Yukon or Castleton] spots, it would take much more time to get to Dongan Hills or New Dorp than it takes to get from Yukon to the South Shore," Reiter said.
"Looking at the overall picture of terrain and logistics, it would serve the city much better to put a bus depot on the east shore or somewhere further out on Hylan Boulevard, where the road is much wider and equipped to handle that kind of traffic."
another case of not in my backyard. it seems they want south shore service but dont want the buses serviced there. they cant possibly continue with two depots. they plan to park 90 buses on forest hill road soon.
another case of not in my backyard. it seems they want south shore service but dont want the buses serviced there. they cant possibly continue with two depots. they plan to park 90 buses on forest hill road soon.
Today I saw about 15 TA busses with Massachusetts Licen plates on them. The busses were pulling out of the lot at 2 Ave and 39 street in Brooklyn. I pulled over and ask one of the drivers what companey was buying them. He told me the Paul Revare (One if by land Person (Sorry about the speeling)). I got most of the bus number and depot there from. Here they are.
Ulmer Park- 3656,3701,3715,3717,3723,3724,3739
West Side- 4126,4133,4131,4161
The depot sticker were still on them with the NYCT Bus And MTA logo sticker. I also thought I saw other busses but I got kicked out of the lot buy A MTS supervicer even though I as in my full unform.
One again Sorry About My spelling I do try my best to look up the words to help me
Probably the guy who kicked you out was a Property Protection Agent. Most of those guys aren't too friendy toward their fellow TA workers. They forget they are just another pass # like you and me. Maybe a cop wannabe who couldn't pass the psychological!.......I have my doubts about all 15 making it up to Masachusetts under their own power, especially since their last home was Ulmer Park! Anybody have a tow truck?
They way you guys talk aboul Ulmer Park being so bad. I heard that same gripe back in the 50s when I was a kid. Back then they always got the old Junk, until the 6000 Macks came in, and ruined them
I just remenber that the person who kicked me out was the AMG or something like that at Ulmer Park about 2 year ago. I also has to help one of the driver to release the interlock on the one of the busses. One of the other had one of the side windows smached in like someone though a big rock at it. The company did have a road truck to follow the line. I hope thay all make it to Massachusetts without anything bad happening to them.
And almost 50 years later, and Ulmer Park hasn't changed much! You know the saying "The more things change, the more they remain the same."
the person who kicked you out was just a frustrated mta supervisor and that was pretty low of him. its nice to see those buses finding a new home as the ones at yukon are all being sold for scrap.
Today i added GMC-RTS Bus pictures on Meaney Bus Page & more bus pictures will add during this week. Go check out my Bus Page. Also i will add subway pictures in two weeks.
Peace Out
Meaney
Novabus, New Flyer & Orion's bus pictures had been added on NYCT-MTA-Bus's Page & enjoy it.
Peace Out
Meaney
Oh, well, this isn't about Macks, but the subject is much the same. Can anyone tell me what routes in Brooklyn used the GM Old Look 9000-9120 series when they were delivered? I remember them as running on B-29, B-39, B-48, B-59, B-61 and B-62. Also, can anyone tell me what older bus models they replaced? I know that on the B-48 and B-62 they replaced the electric buses, but I would appreciate knowing what models they replaced on heh other routes. Thanks.
Fianlly The Rock HAS COME BACK TO BUSTALK! Listen you jabronis: The Rock is getting a bit tired of seeing posts here about Mack buses. The Rock says this: These buses are from the prehistoric dinosaur age.
They don't run in service anymore. Do me a favor: Hang a left on Know your Role Blvd and see if you see any Macks in service. IF YOU SMELL WHAT THE ROCK IS COOKING???????
Welcome back. I don't know if you were in Brooklyn on Monday, but on Monday morning I posted an alert to everyone that I had been told by well known psychotic Edgar Crazy, that all evening rush hour service on the B68 would be provided by C49 Mack Buses. One of the buffs, Luna C , reported seeing them during this period, and described how at 7:15PM they all converged on Bartel Pritchard Square, and executed many interesting formations. At about 7:21PM, they all headed into the park and were not seen from again. You may not believe this actually happened, but their appearance last Monday was meant to herald the rebirth of the New York City Transit System on 1-1-2000. At that time, all Brooklyn surface transit service will be provided by Mack trolley buses and PCC cars. Subway service will be provided by a remanufactured fleet of low V's, R1/9's, BMT Standards and Triplexes. The dinosaurs once ruled the earth, and effective 1-1-2000 they will once again rule the streets and rails of Gotham. Take pictures of the modern equipment now, as some of the people are doing today, because this equipment will be a thing of the past. This has all been prophesized in the Book of Marvin.
Didn[t they realso replace some of the older GMCs in Queens, and older Macks from 1947 also in S.I. (1700 series)
This entire group of GMs ran out of Crosstown depot when delivered, and stayed there until at least the mid-60s. You're right about the routes - but add the B24 Greenpoint Ave. as well, before it was merged into the B29.
They replaced some of the Bingham (C50) Macks, which went to Staten Island, and some of the earlier C45 Macks as well.
Andy is correct about Crosstown depot. When 9000-9120 arrived, they were the only buses Crosstown had. They were replaced around 1965 by new looks in the high 3700's and low 3800's, plus about 40 40-foot old looks from Jamaica that were numbered in the low 4500's. At that point, all of 9000-9120 went to what is now Jackie Gleason to replace 35-foot old looks in the 4000-4499 series, many of which then went to Mabstoa, which was still trying to get rid of pre-1950 equipment inherited from Fifth Avenue Coach and Surface Transit.
you forgot 9121. this bus was different in that it had a red stripe around it separating the two shades of green paint. at christmastime ta would decorats one of these buses as the santa bus.
I'm pretty sure there were only 121 buses, 9120 being the last one. 9120 definitely had the red stripe. 9000 also had a red stripe. The first 23 or so of this series were a little different in that they had all longitudenal seating (i.e., all seats had their backs to the side of the bus), whereas the buses above 9022 had forward facing seats forward of the rear door. Of course the 9000 series were the only GM old looks of the TA that had sliding windows. I was quite fond of the 9000 series when they first appeared, but the new looks came along within the next year or two, making the 9000's look old pretty fast.
I disliked the pink seats tho. Too girly.
According to GMC Truck & Coach Division production records, there were ONLY 121 buses.
9000-9021 were TDH5106-1569 through -1590 delivered in 9/58.
9022-9120 were TDH5106-1470 through -1568 delivered in 8/58.
I can't figure why delivery was done that way, it just was -- according to the records!
(The buses immediately BEFORE this bunch went to Fifth Avenue Coach Lines [2605-2644] and the buses immediately following the TA group were Queens Transit 861-863. Most of the TDH5106's from late 1957 until the end of production went to operators in and around N.Y.C.)
I suspect the reverse delivery schedule was because 9000-9021 had the all longitude seating - may have known those seats would be installed last. Just a guess.
There was one other interesting feature with tho all longitudinal seating buses--the rear seats were in a horsehoe arrangement
Actually, the horseshoe seating in the rear was not that rare back then. The 7000 series old-looks had it, as did the Fifth Avenue 2600's and the Surface Transit 3000's (which later became Mabstoa 3200's).
Didn t some of the early New Looks have the Longitude Seating also?
The earliest new looks (e.g., #1-190) had longitudenal seating forward of the rear door, with forward facing seating behind the rear door (except for over the rear wheel well). This seating arrangement continued until the 2nd combined TA-Mabstoa order, where #5601-5790 Flxibles and #6401-6900 GM's had all longitudenal seating. The all-longitudenal seating continued with the rest of the new look orders, except for express buses. The Grumman 870's and the RTS's went back to forward facing seating forward of the rear door in the current 2 and 1 set-up.
Why did the TA/OA do away with the longitudinal seating, especially in front of the rear door? I do recall they had metal "armrests" between every two bucket seats.
I hated the longitudinal seating.I for one like seating the seating on the buses now and from the first GM new looks(the 2000 and 3600;s)and new look flexibles(5000-5100's)
I agree that the all-longitudenal seating is not good. I prefer facing forward than facing sideways. Much easier to look out the window to watch buses coming in the opposite direction! I recollect the TA may have done a passenger survey of some sort before ordering the Grumman 870's with forward facing seats instead of all-longitudenal seating.
Thanks. So, did B-24, B-29, B-39, B-59 and B-61 use Mack C-50s previously? And where was the Crosstown depot? From the fact that all the routes using the 9000s terminated in the Greenpoint/Williamsburgh area, it must have been in nort Brooklyn.
As Far as I remember the Macks in Brooklyn were out of Flatbush, Ulmer Park and some from East New York. This was up to Dec 58, after that I don t know
I don't remember Macks operating out of Crosstown depot. I'm pretty sure the 9000's replaced 35-footers in the 4000-4499 series on the B61.
I don't think any 4000-4499s were replaced until at least 1961.
Can anyone confirm if Fresh Pond ran any Macks at one point or another? I vaguly remember something different than a GM old look around the mid 60's. If they did which serial numbers were used. I remember this bus had some sort of bulging thing on the roof edge near the door.
If I remember correctly the Corona Ave B-58 that ran from Ridgewood to Flushing used 5500s in the 50's
I've seen a picture of some very low numbered 6000 series Macks on what is now the Q55, so I suspect Fresh Pond got some of these Macks back in 1956.
You mean the old B-55 Richmond Hill route?
The B55 Richmond Hill bus route was one of the last Brooklyn trolley
routes to run in Queens. It became a bus route in the spring of
1950 and operated from the East New York garage until July 27,
1960, when the route was transferred to the new Fresh Pond garage.
The transfer of the B55 to Fresh Pond took place on the same date
when the trolleybuses were retired.
Fresh Pond garage actually opened in 1960 and the 5200-5599 series
Bingham Macks, not the 6000-series Macks, ran off their last miles
out of that garage on the B55-Richmond Hill bus route.
As the picture I saw was taken on 7/17/56 (the August 9-15 page of the 1998 Metro New York Area Bus Mega Calendar), based on your other post on this thread, the low 6000 Macks, when new, evidently operated out of East New York. The bus pictured is 6001, with 6018 to the rear.
The original assignment of the NYCTA's 6000-series Mack buses
were 6000-79 to East New York, 6080-6237 to Ulmer Park, and
6238-6317 to Staten Island
The last Mack buses bought by Public Service in 1941 were 4550-77
to the Barrington garage and 4578-99 to the Passaic garage. All
were retired by 1956. Barrington garage closed on February 15,
1963; Passaic garage closed on June 23,1972.
The last Mack buses bought by PTC were 1611-40 and 1964-93 in
1948. All were originally assigned to Haverford garage and used
on Route D on Chestnut and Walnut Streets from Washington Square,
7th and Locust, to 69th Street Terminal or Wycombe. These Macks
later worked on Routes G, J. K, S, V, and 30.
The last Mack buses I rode on in Philadelphia operated on Route 90,
the Locust and Spruce Streets line. The Macks also ran off their
last miles on Route H-1, the Washington Lane route from Germantown
and Chelten Avenues to Gimbels at Cheltenham and Ogontz Avenues or
the Lynnewood Gardens Apartments and Shopping Center, 19th, Penrose,
and Cheltenham Avenues.
So which routes out of East New York used these Macks and which out of Ulmer Park?
Replaced doesn't mean sent to scrap. The 4000 series buses that were replaced by the 9000's no doubt went someplace else to replace something older, with the latter scrapped. Many of the 4000-4499 buses wound up going over to Mabstoa after the takeover of Fifth Avenue Coach and Surface Transit around 1963.
xtown depot was and still is located on box st in greenpoint.
it is currently used by the ta as a paint shop.prior to 1980,
the following lines operated out of xtown;
B18 B24/29 B30 B39 B48 B61 B62
Thanks. What was B-30?
The one only time I saw a B30 bus, it had JG sticker on it? I asked the question how come it operated out of there????
B46M Limited
During the last week of October, 1953, Philadelphia bus routes XF
and 83 were put out of misery. Route XF, the 34th Street-Curie
Avenue shuttle bus from 30th Street Station to the Civic Center, was
abandoned on October 30, but Route 83, the ferry shuttle bus from
Franklin Square, 6th and Race Streets, to Delaware Avenue and South
Street, lingered on until November 1 when it also was abandoned.
Don't forget the B59 also operated out of Xtown.
For the last five months of 1960, the B72 Junction Boulevard bus
route, operated from the Queens Bus Division out of the Flushing
(now Casey Stengel)garage until New Year's Day, 1961, when the
route was sold to Triboro Bus Company.
How come it was called the B72 if it operated only in Queens?????
B46M Limited
The B72 was operated by the Brooklyn Bus Division, because it originally was a BMT streetcar route that branched from the Corona Ave. route (which became B58, now Q58 bus route). Hence the "B" prefix.
During the fall of 1953, Public Service rerouted bus route 107, the
Irvington-New York Express, via the New Jersey Turnpike, and began
express service on Cuthbert Road on Route 5, the Haddonfield-Phila-
delphia line.
In the early 60s I used to collect paper transfers from Brooklyn bus routes. Can anyone suggest a resource where I might be able to obtain copies or facsimiles of transfers (in both directions) from all the routes as of about 1962? Could someone possibly post such copies on a website? Or, at least, would it be possible to obtain listings of what routes each transfer was valid for. Thanks.
I was wondering what engines they have in the orion V's I know the ones we have out here north of the bay area have a series 60 DD
and the ones we have in our state capitol in Sacramento have
a Cummins L10 CNG powered so I was wondering what NYCTA was using
DD series 50 4 cylinder 300 turbo diesel. Not bad. Only 300 horses and it can push a bus.
That is not correct. They 275 horsepower, not 300. The Orion V's from 1993 have 277hp 6v-92TA's with DDECII Electronic Controls. The 1994-1996 Orion V's have Detroit Diesel Series 50's with 275HP and DDEC III electronic controls. The 1999 Orion V's have Detroit Diesel Series 50's with DDEC IV electronic controls and wastegated turbochargers. In 1993 series there are a couple of units which use DD Series 50's and Cummins C8.3's for testing.
Peace
DaShawn
The info that DaShawn speaks is very true! I know cause he got this info from me and I did the research, the DDC Series 50 300 Hp is only available in the Articulated and Coach market!
Trevor
As an 8 or 9 year old I remember FAC had some GMC old looks on the #15 Jackson Heights line that had a square box that stuck out over the front of the bus for the route signs and that the buses were painted gold with blue (instead of green with yellow) in honor of some anniversary. Anybody out there remember if I am right and what they were for? Also what happened to those buses and are any of them still in existence?
I recollect at least one bus painted gold with blue, although I'm not sure it had the square-box destination sign like the 2600's did. I believe the bus was in the low 2500's, which would have made it a little older than the 2600's. Fifth Avenue Coach had a number of 2500's that often ran on the 15 route, with most of them painted in the standard FAC paint scheme. I think the highest number was around 2555.
The buses with the bulging destination sign box were 2645-2694. These were 1959 GM TDH5106's. There was an identical bunch in the
Bronx at Surface Transit, numbered 3020-3059.
The reason for the bulging destination sign box is that the destination signs were illuminated with flourescent tubes, unlike all earlier buses than these which had small 12-volt incandescent bulbs which took up hardly any room. These two groups of buses also had flourescent interior lighting.
I'm not sure if anyone else got this option -- according to the GM production lists I have, the 1959 buses delivered just previous to the above two orders were:
Schenck Transportation 400-405
Green Bus Lines 151-160
Club Transportation 401-410
Queens Transit 865-870
Charlesbourg (Quebec) 82-83
Bee Line 615-619
Queens Transit 871, 864
West Fordham Transportation 159,259,359
Did any of these possibly have the bulging destination sign?? I know the West Fordham bunch did NOT.
The TDH 5106s that went to Green Bus Lines, Club Transportation, and Queens Transit did not have the bulging destination sign box.
I can also attest that the old looks at Queens Transit had a side sign box high in the side window right by the entry door. I did not realize that there were so few of those things.
The Schenck and Bee Line buses did not have the bulging destination signs.
Okay, so I guess we have narrowed it down to just the Fifth Avenue Coach Lines bunch and the Surface Transit bunch that DID have the bulging (flourescent-lit) destination signs.
Thanks for taking the time to look it up!
Fifth Avenue Coach received the TDH 5106s with the bulging destination sign box in 1958 and 1959.
Numbers 2605-2644* serial numbers 1430-1469 arrived in August 1958
Numbers 2545-2694 serial numbers 1678-1727 arrived in July 1959
(These were the last TDH 5106s ever built)
Surface Transit had numbers 3020-3059 serial numbers 1638-1677 and they also arrived in July 1959
*= Numbers 2600-2604 were White model 1150s. These were used solely on route 15.
Thanks for the comment regarding the FACL 2600-2604 -- I saw a picture of one of them once and couldn't figure WHAT the heck it was.
The Fifth Avenue Coach bus painted in gold was number 2502. This was a TDH 5104. Identical to a TDH 5106 but with spring suspension.
The group were numbered 2502-2551. They had wide rear doors and were painted in standard green and cream scheme. They did not have the bulging destination sign box. About 25 of these were assigned to the 15 Jackson Heights Line along with #2500 (TD 5401) and #2501 (TDH 5102). The 15 would always wind up with all the odd balls that FACO purchased.
Check out the section: Around New York in this website. Go to New York City Buses. Then to New York City Bus Photo Album 1. Scroll until you see a few FACO buses. You will see a picture of #2502 in front of the Main Library.
Unfortunately it is in black and white.
Speaking of Fifth Avenue colors... they had some buses painted in the elaborate streamline scheme but not in green but rather brown/gold hue. I have one slide of a route 15 bus, a TDH 4509, that clearly shows this scheme.
can you find a way to post it?
While traveling thru Brooklyn today, a thought occurred to me. The Brooklyn depots get everyone elses hand-me-downs. The Brooklyn division had lots of 1981's thru 1985's. Most of these are either scrapped or will be scrapped within the next year or two. Sure, the Brooklyn division has gotten some new buses (9000's and 4900/5000's and LF Flyers coming), but I see what has replaced lots of the old stuff. While Staten Island gets all brand new Orion local buses (eventhough there are maintance problems with them), and 2 MABSTOA depots get all new and slightly used Orions as well, look at what Brooklyn is getting. 4400's; 4700's from Amsterdam; 8000's from Mother Clara Hale; 8300's from Staten Island. You will see 4800's as well. The list goes on. Brooklyn is surely the stepchild of the bus division.
Brooklyn wasn't always the place to get hand-me-downs.
Consider this: when the first GM newlooks (1-165) were delivered in 1959, the firstones went to Flatbush garage and worked the B41.
When the Flxibles of the mid-1960's arrived, they, too, went to Flatbush.
I used to live up in the Bronx, and believe me, THAT is where the hand-me-downs used to wind up. If it weren't for the dirt, I don't know what would have held the stuff together up in the Bronx in the 1960's!!!
I fully agree. But the tide has turned in the '90's.
Although it seems that Brooklyn is receiving everyone's "old" buses, the average fleet age is pretty similar and will improve over the next two years. The only exception is Staten Island. The saying "the squeaky wheel gets the oil" is very appropriate. They have very poor maintenance practices that eventually brings the entire fleet to such a implorable state of repair that the quick fix is to move all buses to other boroughs and assign new buses.
Let's hope that the employees of the Staten Island Division clean up there act and allow the entire system to benefit from the delivery of new buses.
I am employee of NYCT that is personally disgusted with the drain of resources to support Staten Island.
I agree with your assessment of the S.I. bus fleet. The problem lies squarely with the lazy and uncooperative members of ATU local 726 and their grandstanding leader Larry Hanley. He blames everybody in the world except his useless membership for the fleet's problems. I wonder how long the MCIs will last with these slugs working on them.
[Note - TWU does not represent TA bus workers on S.I. because ATU goes back to the days of private buses that the city took over in the 1950s. ATU is descended from the union that represented trolley car workers on S.I. earlier in the century.]
Brooklyn is not the only county that gets the hand me downs.With the exception of Casey Stengal,the Queens Village and Jamaica Depots get alot of old RTS's also.Granted we did get part of the high 9300's order and the QV got the 1st batch of 4900's ,they have alot of RTS's from the mid to late 80's still
The MCIs are on a 7-year lease, and are maintained by MCI personnel, rather than TA employees. The way the contract was made up, maintainence costs can be taken from the capital budgetr, rather than operations (a bit of voodoo accounting)
Until recently, the Staten Island division was the last stop for all buses. If you went to the bus festival, most of the buses there had "...finished its working carreer on Staten Island routes." as the last line on the placard.
Now, they send the newest buses to SI (the last of the 6000s, the MCIs) and people in the 'remembered' boros are complaining.
-Hank
Right, and routes like the s76 and s52 often got the last of the last. Not to mention the GM/Blitz express buses that were yanked out of service only after one nearly broke apart on the Gowanus in 1993. A lot of it is politics and right now politics favors S.I.
They weren't yanked out of service. They were swapped for local buses. The Blitz buses remained in local service until late 1993 (when the first order of Orions arrived) They actually out-lasted the 9000 and 7000 series Flxibles.
-Hank
Hi, Mr. Intentionally Left Blank. I see you like buses like me. You and I crossed over from Subtalk.
I've been here from the beggining. I'm also known as 'Hank Eisenstein' Intentionally left blank is for work, where I don't want to leave a personal cookie on the shared machine.
-Hank
I am also on both. One feature of MARTA that I really like is the free transfer to many bus lines INSIDE the fare controls at many stations (andf even bus to bus without the need for a transfer-just change at the train station). NYC has only one such case-- Rockaway parkway on the Canarsie Line (L Train)and it is only one bus line.
How true. I saw a few 1700 and 1800 series RTS busses (literally clinging to life) working the S61 and S79 routes up until the tail end of last summer. Likewise until the MCI's came online during last spring/summer there were still 1000 series RTS soft seaters on the Express runs which I'm glad to say are gone.(Too many bad memories of being stuck in traffic and stuck to the vinyl seats on the X-17 during hot weather..the A/C never worked of course.)
Of course I still miss the old 9000-series Flxibles (some still sporting MaBSTOA decals) that worked the s53(S7) and other assorted lines out on the Isle until the early 1990s.
1853 was on the X17 Saturday morning while all the MCIs and Orions sat in Yukon, in the streets around Yukon and at the Arthur Kill Road turnaround. I saw 3456 on a flatbed today on Richmond Ave. It was stripped of its MTA logos and #s. It finished its MTA life at Yukon.
KayBee
1700's and 1800's still live on at Queens Village and Jamaica. Personally I think they may have at least another year or so to them.
over in brooklyn this monday,we had 1834 on the B64 and 1778
on the B36.1834 was out all day and pulled into the garage at
about 1230a.m.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
Rode 1771 the other day on the x17. Nice cold bus. didn't make too much noise. I expect that a select few of the 1981/82 buses will hang around for quite a while. As long as the frame is in good shape, it pays to continue repairing them.
-Hank
from what i hear from mike our roadtruck man these buses are really shot and its amazing they still are in service. they pulled 3785 and 3787 out to ready for scrap. also 3832 looks like its getting ready for nimco.
That has Bronx style numbers on the back of it.
i saw #1744 running on the X2 today, so i guess the old express buses are stil running.
the following are still running as express buses 1744, 1749,1770,1771,
and 1853.all run from yukon. the 1700s you speak of are resting comfortably under depot.
I see 1755 on X63 and 1767 on X68 every morning.
Sometimes I see 1819, 1844 and 1852 too.
3243 and 3258 are still going strong at QV.
MM2000
With the exception of real basic stuff, the MCI's are maintained by the contractor. TA personnel are still under training by the contractor and all repair responsibility I think is still with the contractor not TA.
Today, around 4 PM, I spotted two of NJT's new RTS buses (#1081 and 1087) with red IBOA stripes on them. They were on 6th Avenue between 55th and 56th Sts., just standing on the east side of the street.
Anybody know what they were doing there?
Thanks.
I recently road the hybrid on the m3. It seemed to accelerate quickly. The interior was small and cramped. It reminded me of the school bus I rode to school on. Who manufacturers this bus and is there any chance we will see more of these buses or see a different hybrid desighn in the future
Once again, the problem is that it is a low-floor bus, not that it's a hybrid. People have been complaining they don't like the hybrid bus because of the seating arrangements or interior when in fact it is a low-floor design they are complaining about. If they were on the converted RTS, they'd never know it's a hybrid.
-Hank
To finally answer this question!
The bus is manufactured by Orion Bus Industries, the Model name is the Orion VI Hybrid Electric. 5 are already in service 6350-6354. 6350 through 6353 are Ex-NJT hybrids that were rejected by NJT cause they were not ready for the technology! 6354 is the first of the actual NYC Bus order. 6355-6359 will join us within a month or two! The TA is now in talks with Orion to purchase 9 more by year end of 2000.
5 NovaBUS RTS-06 Hybrid Electrics are due between December 1999 and February 2000. There is already one RTS hybrid in service, that is bus #8397. This bus was manufactured by TMC and used to be powered by Methanol, but because the fuel was very corrosive, the TA had this bus converted to Hybrid. To most this is a "ghost" bus because it is rarely seen. I have had the pleasure of seeing and riding this bus.
I hope you have been fully informed, any questions, feel free to ask more!!!!!
Trevor
I to had the pleasure of riding 8397 ,when it was methanol powered and running out of CS on the Q12(Flushing-City Line via Nothrern Bl.)
Classic Motorbooks is advertising a new book -- General Motors New Look Bus Photo Archive -- by John McKane (ISBN # 1583880070). It is 128 pages with 120 b&w illustrations.
"... developments, improvements, engineering advances and styling improvements, and discover details about a possible GM monopoly..."
Classic Motorbooks has it for $29.99. Their phone number is 1-800-826-6600 and the book order number is 1290999AE. Available October 15, 1999
AMAZON.COM has it for $23.96.
The book is to be published in October 1999
Last night I was watching the new NYPD/FDNY/EMS show, Third Watch.
The cop name "Bosco" (to any New Yorker from the late '50s early '60s this was a chocolate syrup not a cop!) and who behaves more like a BOZO! had his squad car stolen.
Bosco and his partner comandeered an NYCTA bus to chase the car. It is an RTS. The exterior views show this to be #1263.
The interior views show an RTS NYCTA but with a Keene K-25 farebox!!
[My NYCTA/MABSTOA roster dated May 16, 1999 shows #1263 at Gershow Scrap Yard]
Anyone knows who bought this bus?
It was purchased by a SI-Based company that supplies cars to movie production companies.
-Hank
that is indeed probably where it went. picture cars limited bought bus 1648 for use on movie and tv sets. they usually number it pa4199 but do use other numbers.1648 spent its last days at the castleton depot.
Found the website for ohio transit museum (www.omot.org) They have pictures of some of their equipment. Notably #623 from Ave B and East Broadway ( Joe T"S collection), soon to be covered as an Ohio system #817 and a picture of an AM General from an Ohio Fleet ( an AMG picture is a rarity).
Today I spotted TA bus #8490 from Hudson with orange LED destination signs. DaShawn spotted this bus this past weekend on the M6. It looks nice and I hope these signs pass the MTA's test. Does anyone know if this is the only bus the MTA is testing these signs on. They would look really nice on a MCI.
~~KayBee
I had reported Command Orion 4961 last week, and today I saw that Green Lines Orion 5503 hs this also.
I took a few pics of 5503. Kev did of 4961. Check them out.
www.angelfire.com/ny/kaybeespage/index.html
MM2000
There is bus on rail cars trucks in Coney Island Yard. Where did the bus come from and what is it's purpose? You bus types must know the answer.
It's an inspection car. Not exactly a bus, I believe the body is a former PCC. There's photos of another inspection car in the illustrated roster somewhere...
-Hank
If it's the car I'm thinking of, it's F116, a former bus body (Mack, if memory serves).
David
[It's an inspection car. Not exactly a bus, I believe the body is a former PCC. There's photos of another inspection car in the illustrated roster somewhere...
-Hank]
From the looks of the picture I've seen, it looks to be the body of a GM oldlook bus.
The one with the Mack body -- there IS a Sperry Railcar (I believe #402) which was made from one of the former New Haven Railroad Mack "FCD" railbuses, and Sperry uses it mostly to do rail checking services on light rail and subway systems.
That's interesting Steve. I always assumed the TA took one of their Mack Bus shells, and put it over the car. Why they would have picked a Mack Bus Shell never occurred to me, since I am fond of the Macks. But you say it was originally a New Haven Mack Railbus, puts a whole different spin on it. So it was an existing rail-bus with the interior converted... Hmmm. Either way, I still like seeing a surviving Mack visage..
The TA is not the one who has the ex-New Haven Mack FCD railbus. That is Sperry Rail Service. Read the post more carefully.
I did not say that the TA used the ex-New Haven railbus. You need to re-read my post a bit more carefully.
It was Sperry Rail Service that used the ex-New Haven railbus. There was also an ex-New Haven railbus at the Remington Arms Company in Connecticut being used as a material transport around their plant at one time.
The TA's track inspection car is definitely a former GM bus shell on a flatcar. It was a TD4506 or TD4507, from the window arrangement that is visible in the photo. I have seen another photo of this particular track inspection car, a left side view, and it was painted yellow.
The photo of the right side (in black) is at:
http://www.nycsubway.org/slides/work/trinsp.jpg
Is that car still around??
Some buses in the past mainly intercity buses used the DD 12V-71s diesel engines. How much power did they produced?
How much torque. I ask because I heard they were pretty quick.
How did they manange to fit such a big machine into a engine carpartment which is almost the same size as a oldre MCIs?
Now what would happen if it was a 12V92TA? :)
A 12V-92TA with DDEC IV now that probably would be awesome. During the 1960/70's most intercity buses used DD 8V-71's. MCI had built 100 MC-6's for Greyhound which was an experimental 102inch wide bus with 12V-71 engines. 85 of them were in the US and the remaining 15 were at Greyhound of Canada. In the mid 70's Greyhound (US) started replacing the manual transmissions in the older buses (MC-5,6 and 7's) with automatics. They also repowered the MC-6's with conventional 8V-71's. I heard the Greyhound of Canada MC-6's retained their 12V-71/manual transmission combination. I don't know of any other buses to get the 12V-71. I never rode a MC-6, but I do remember seeing a couple of them when I was very young.
Wayne
Aside from the Greyhound MC-6's which Wayne mentioned, the only other application of the 12V71 engines that I know of were for the Head End Power (HEP) in GMD F59 diesel locomotives at Metrolink (southern California) and GO Transit (Toronto, Canada). The Metrolink engines have been re-engined (the HEP engine) with Cummins engines in the past couple years, and I understand GO Transit's newer deliveries also came with the Cummins engine (as did all the other recent F59PHI deliveries to rail commuter agencies).
Wait a minute -- I had my head screwed on wrong.
The locomotives I mentioned did NOT have a 12V71 engine. I was thinking of Amtrak's General Electric P30CH engines (700-729) that were built in the early 1970's and have already been scrapped.
The Metrolink, GO Transit, et al -- they has a 12V149 engine when built. Now THAT's one hell of an engine, even if it was driving just the HEP generators!
I have been in a couple of MC-6's but never out on the road. They were pretty awsome looking though.
A had a freind that drove for hound when they were being built and they were deadheading them into service from the factory into Chicago. (they were not legal for revnue service in Wis or Min.)
He said they used to load them down with parts from the factory to send to the Chicago and east coast shops but they still had lots of guts. A the time the Greyhound fleet out here was 4104's 4106's, scenics and MC-5's. The 6 did not have the class of a Scenic but was not as bland as the MC-7 that was built when they could not change the federal regs to allow them to be operated everywhere.
What routes did they work on most of the time? I had heard they worked a lot on the Miami to NYC routes, Chicago to NYC for a bit and ran out most of their life in commuter service in California.
I remember seeing them once or twice at Port Authority in the mid 70's. Of course I didn't know model numbers then as I was about 7 yrs, but I was used to seeing MC-5, MC-7, Eagle 01 and 05's - so I thought the MC-6 was rather strange looking. I never saw them again, but I read in an early issue of Bus World that the ended their careers on the west coast as well as them being converted to 8V-71/Automatic transmission. I heard the the 15 MC6's at Greyhound of Canada retained their 12V-71/manual transmissions.
Wayne
When the Greyhound MC-6's were in California, they didn't do much commuter service. They seemed to run the locals between San Francisco and Los Angeles via US101, and occasionally would see runs from Los Angeles to San Diego.
The commuter services in the San Francisco area were usually run with TDM4801's, TDM5303's, and some of the PD4501 "Scenicruisers".
Did the photo shoot go as planned last Saturday, and did they cover all the places that they said they would? Any unusual sightings? Any Mack Buses by chance? Paul
The trip went very well for a small group (Attendance: DaShawn, Trevor, Kevin, MCIMAN2000 [Gary]). The trip did take another turn and we took a MCI ride out to SI after the 34th Street stop and also got a very exciting and quick ride on Orion #6335! Those of you that didn't come, MISSED OUT! We saw a lot of buses, got some really great shots!
As of now, no more field trips will be publicly planned!!!!!
Trevor
P.S. No Mack Buses!
Today I read a brochure on a M102 about Articulateds running on the M79 and M86. The Park Av stop will be closed to help the buses run quicker.
I was just about to post a message on that! Anyway I got it this morn and here is what it said, it says the following "Introducing Articulated Buses" "We're going to great lengths to improve service on the M79 and M86" all of the mechanical stuff then "By January 2000, all of the buses on the M79 route will be articulated and by the spring, so will the buses on the M86 route" its a good but very final decision!
Just received my Sept/Oct issue of trade magazine "Mass Transit". Was pleased to see a two page adv. by Orion featuring QSC #510 vs. one of those same old blue jobs ;-)
The graphics on the photo is suppose to show our coach speeding down Sixth avenue, but they forgot to add a driver :-( The wheel is also turned to the right, so maybe he/she is going to speed across the street INTO the deli for lunch ? .... otherwise a nice shot.
Mr t__:^)
Three words to answer the WHY's of the photo:
CUT AND PASTE
Check out the new Artwork, Private Transportation of Brooklyn Pics, Red Apple Transit Pics, and tons of new stuff at TransiTALK!
Plus we remodeled!
http://geocities.com/transitalk/NYCTransit.html
Trevor Logan
Does tha MTA have its vehicle spec sheets or fleet roster sheet?
Thank you
Not available to the public, But I am aware of every mechanical aspect of each order that has come or is coming to the TA. SO if you need specs on a certain model, Ask Me!
Trevor
I messed up the first time.
I going to try again.
I would like to know if anyone can get me some used empty CTA Trainsit Cards. I collect New York City Transit Metrocards that have special promotion or company logo on them. I know that CTA dose the same thing on there Transit Card. I would like to get some of them to add to my collection. If anyone can mail me some of them to me let me know by E-Mail and I will give my address. If anyone would like to I also can mail some of ours to you. Thank You.
Robert. There's a guy over on SubTalk named David Cole who has been on a lot. He is from Chicago, and you could click on his name in blue, send him an e-mail and ask him if he would be interested.
Robert, I live in Chicago (only on weekends) and I would be happy to send you what I can find. I recently had ones with advertising from Old Navy and Altoids.
Today i went to pick up a application for Train Operator & damn it is mad pack at 18 Washington St to pick up for Train Operator. Any way after i pick up application & i walk to South Ferry on second floor so i can take pictures at the view. Last mintues before i get into ferry & i saw Novabus LF #995 coming into last stop. So i took four pictures of Novabus LF rightfront, back, twice left side & i look at the top of the bus & i see #999. I was suprise that there is only one Novabus LF not two buses. So it a cool bus & the driver was a blad fat guy talking to dispatcher about Novabus LF & he enjoy it riding the bus. Any way the run it #13 on M6.
Peace Out
Meaney
PS i went to Staten Island Ferry took about 12 Orion buses pictures & i haven't see single RTS buses.
There are maybe 50 RTS left on the Island.
-Hank
We still have 4800s local and express along with 82 and 8300s. I see them everday. I still get a RTS express often on the X19. (3800s 1700s 1853 etc.)
#995 was running on the 23rd St crosstown on 10/1. It seems to get around.
Dear Bus Talk:
As a resident of Staten Island who relies on commuting around this borough with todays modern MTA New York City Transit bus system
riding on the modern Orion V model buses, I still enjoy those Classic General Motors New Look Fish Bowl Transit Buses that I remember boarding with my Mom as a child growing up during the 1970's. In particular, I can still remember when as a young child riding those green body 1962-63 GMC New Look 5303 model buses with the script New York City Transit Authority logo on top during the early and mid 1970's. When assigned to Staten Island at the Castleton Bus Depot, these 1962 GMC New Looks were in the 3601-3625 fleet roster series.
As a huge transit bus enthuisiast and one who enjoys collecting different kinds of automobilia, I would like to find out if there is anybody out there who has any color photos showing a full front/side view of a dark green 1963 GMC New Look bus also showing the entrance and exit door? Can anyone also tell me where I can obtain New York City Transit Authority Press Kits showing 1962-63 GMC New Look Buses with the script Transit Authority logo?
There are plenty of them as well as other GM fishbowl models on this site. just click on "other bus pages". I have fond memories of them too. I grew up in The Bronx - The MABSTOA eqivalent would've been the 3300-3500 and 5200-5500 series. I was very young at the time, My favorite fishbowls were the 1966 TDH-5303/AC, T6H-5309A/10A and the awesome GM/Canada T8H-5307A/8A.
Wayne
Just to touch base, I understand that there is a New York City Transit Museum Bus #3758 (1962 TDH-5303 New Look) that is presumed to be housed at the Jackie Gleason Bus Depot. Back in September when I requested to visit this green former Transit Authority bus at the Fifth Avenue Bus Garage to take a photo of it, unfortunately I was unable to get a good view because the vintage bus was blocked and surrounded by other equipment. I only wish that the Maintenance Division at Gleason could keep this 1962 New Look classic Bus #3758
parked in a area where there is much more space without being surrounded by the more modern buses. In any event, I would please like to find out if there are any members from the NYC Transit Bus Headquarters in East New York who have any color photos showing a full front/side view of a 1962-63 GMC New Look Bus in the 3300-3997
roster series?
Yes, it's likely that it would be blocked by other vehicles as it basically in storage until an event comes up. I've seen it at a NYCTA/OA Bus Rodeo and at the Bus Exhibit outside the Transit Museum last Spring. I don't remember the all of the photos which are at the site, but I do know that there are photos of NYCTA TDH-5303's in the Blue and original green paint scheme. Some of the other regular Bustalkers like Trevor Logan and Meaney may have some of them at their websites. Take a look!.
Wayne
I'm pretty sure I took a picture of Museum bus #3758 at BusFest 1999 earlier this year. I tried getting on to the Busfest 1999 section of this site, but couldn't get the pictures - I don't know whether there was a problem with my computer or the site page. In any event, I'm pretty sure there's a picture of 3758 there.
museum bus #3758 is now housed in ulmer pk depot along with
#8928(1968 express coach)
ANDY/ULMER PK
GFI has lost another customer, this time at Vancouver.
A couple of suits from their were in town & visited this depot to see a big operation. I fished a little for why they made the switch but they either didn't know or weren't telling.
Told them about this great site and all the friends they can meet who also have Cubic, e.g. Chicago, Washington DC, Atlanta, Miami, Houston, London, Hong Kong. etc., etc.
Their business cards have e-mail accounts, so maybe we'll soon have some new friends to chat with.
Mr t__:^)
Does anybody know a site where I could find bus logos ? I need them for my theater production class .
Email me at mallet_boy@hotmail.com
Thanx .
You might need to go to Meaney's page. www.angelfire.com/nj2/nyctmtabus
Peace Out
-Clayton
If you need manufacturer's logos go to my page at
http://geocities.com/transitalk/NYCBus.html
Trevor
I was somewhere in Queens today (for confidential reasons I will not
disclose bus number, TA ID, or street here)and saw something rather innapropriate for a NYCT bus.
It was parked and off duty, with lights and engine off. I looked in and noticed what appeared to be the driver, with a female, making out! They had their arms around eachother and were kissing, and were sitting in the seat just in front of the rear doorwell.
Isn't sexual relations with a bus driver who's taking a break on his bus against TA policy? I have the bus number, TA ID, time and street. Should I report this and how would I go about it? I feel sorry for anyone who sits in that seat when the bus goes on duty (yuck).
I don't think you want to tattle on them do you?
Peace Out
-Clayton
No, I don't but I just figured it was against TA policy. I guess this "making out off duty" thing is a lot more common than I thought.
I wish.
Well it was just a strange thing to do on a bus, but I guess (from what it sounds like) since this happens on alot of off duty buses the TA should not be told.
I'm not trying to cause trouble for someone else, just making sure drivers observe TA rules. Off duty "necking" should not be allowed and there should be cameras rolling on the buses to make sure this and more importantly, vandalism, is caught on tape. It is possible some of that sctatchiti may be from drivers isn't it?
Well, there are survaillance cameras on some New Flyers, I cannot remember which ones (Trevor, you come into play here). I've never seen making-out on a bus when a bus driver is the one doing it.
here in staten island a bus driver was caught going all the way at the worth street express bus terminal when transit videotaped him from an office building. he was suspended for awhile. while it is inappropriate behavior i wuold mind my own business. remember the ones who videotape it will be getting their jollies while they watch and many were guilty of the same thing.
It's not like the bus was moving. As long as its not detrimental to safety, mind your own business.
And why wouldnt you sit in the seat?? You said they were making out. Not doing anything more physical or messy. Are you anal retentive or something? Do you wipe down the subway seats and grab rails with disinfectant b4 you sit or hold on??
Get over it.
Wednesday and Thursday AM rush on the Q67. One day spotted 498, next day 495 operating in service on different driver runs. Also, Wednesday nite 9 PM, soft seat CNG Orion #3037 operating on Triboro Q38. Hope the seats didn't get vandalized!
Actually you have four chances to catch one of these new CNGs: 493; 495; 496; & 498.
Re: Other questions:
- Scratching of windows ... not a big problem for us, fortunately
- Orion Hard Seat Patch removal: two screws & two clips, that's it.
- MCI new bus in for heavy service is 918.
Mr t__:^)
I rode on buses 493 and 495 today on Q104. I like the seats. Just like the 500 Express CNG Orions except they're hard. I thought 497 was in service too. Didn't it arrive with 495?
MM2000
When attending the New York Transit Museum Bus Festival back in May,
I had noticed that a vendor was selling 1997 and 98 Bus Calendars featuring photos of NYC Transit Authority Buses taken during the 1960's and 70's. I noticed that these calendars featured photos of
1963-65 General Motors 5303 model New Look Transit Authority buses.
At the time the cost of these Transit Bus Calendars were $50.00. Because this was a price range that did'nt meet my budget, I passed on purphasing the bus publications. However, I would please like to find out the person who compiled these comemorative Transit Bus Calendars? Also, would anybody know where I might still be able to buy these Transit Authority Bus Calendars featuring the now Vintage Buses?
There is a man who post on SubTalk who publishes Subway Calenders. Bill Newkirk. I don't know if he has them, but he might know who does. You can e-mail him at newkirkimages@msn.com Hope it's helpful. Paul
The "Metro New York Area Bus Mega Calendar" W-A-S published by a completely different enity.
Try MegaCalndr@AOL.com or Traction Yearbook - PO Box 123 - Merrick NY 11566. He has a habit of being slow to reply, so if you have a little patience he may still have some '98, '97 & '96 left at about $25 a piece. I've also seen him post to this board so he may answer you directly.
P.S. I happen to have all three & for a bus nut they're worth the wait because you get about 50 or 60 photos per, so wishing you good luck.
Mr t__:^)
Thurston is correct, for which I thank him. The calendars are $25.00 plus $5.00 each UPS ($29.95 per calendar) ,
and there are still a few left of all years. Each calendar has 55 full-page photos of New York City metropolitan area buses. Due to greatly increased printing costs from our printer in Hong Kong, it will not be possible to currently continue production of this item. Our mailing address is Mega-Calendar, P.O. Box 123, Merrick NY 11566. E-mail: JoePCC699@AOL.com. We also have thousands of professional quality 8"x10" black and white photos available - including many Macks! And, if you check eBay on a regular basis under Seller Search using "JoePCC699@AOL.com" you may find quite a number of items of interest being offered for auction.
1989 MCI Classic #788 from Triboro is now parked in Command Storage Yard. There are a totoal of 3 MCI Classics from Triboro now stored there. Is something wrong with these buses or is it thatTriboro doesnt need them anymore with all the CNG Orions? It would be nice to see NY Bus Service fix them up and use them.
The 1988 vintage MCIs have a lot of miles on them. Some have fared better then others. This is a time when maint. is asked to ID those in the best shape & let the rest be retired in favor of a brand new Orion CNG. Some of them along with a few "GM" RTS will be around for a few more years.
Mr t__:^)
A question: What are these 2 buses doing at College Point Yard?
4354 was just repainted with the white scheme. Are they headed elsewhere or are they on standby just in case if a Jamaica Bus breaks down and they won't have to use an Orion bus from Stengel on the Q17?
MM2000
One of the 1981 RTS buses, 1493, is seen running around in
Philadelphia, but not for SEPTA. 1493 now operates for the Park
Towne Place apartment complex as a shuttle bus via Market Street
to Independence Hall. It is painted all tan outside with brown
lettering.
i saw academy bus 82 the other day by lincoln tunnel. it still had nyct paint scheme and you could see the number pa1710 rubbed off, one of our 1982 hard seaters.they must be in financial difficulties to have to buy these 17 year old junks.
What are you talking about. They're excellent buses.
Saw 4351 and 4352 on the BQE at 5:45PM heaading towards either towards JG,YUK or CAS they were heading south (west)by the Manhattan Bridge exit.Also I use to get 1710 alot and most off the other 1700's (except the suburbans) out of CS(then FLU).They were good buses
I agree. I always had a smooth ride on the Q44 when I worked in the IRT.
Are there any more 1200 series RTS left?
Are those the one with the 6V71 engines that took 5 hours to get from 0-60? What were the horsepower and torque ratings for those?
There are no more 1200 in service, However there is 1201 as part of the museum fleet that is parked at Jackie Gleason!
The 1981-85 RTS originally received engines rating at a 253 Horsepower then in 1986 they upgraded to 277 Horsepower!
Referrence:
1981-85 RTS - 253 Horsepower
1986-93 RTS - 277 Horsepower BUT Governed Like Hell
1994-99 RTS - 275 Horsepower
1993 Orions - 277 Horsepower BUT Again Governed
1993 with Cummins C8.3 - 250 Horsepower
1993 with DDC Series 50 - 250 Horsepower
1994-99 Orions - 275 Horsepower
1995 Orion CNGs - 260 Horsepower
1998-99 Orion Hybrids - 195 Horsepower
New Flyer Artics - 315 Horsepower
New Flyer LF CNGs - 275 Horsepower
LFS - 275 Horsepower
MCI Coaches - 330/350 Horspower (Its a combo power engine)
I hope this has helped you!
Trevor
SEPTA's only RTS bus fleet arrived in 1980 and their original
assignment was 8000-8109 to Callowhill depot, 8110-8209 to
Allegheny depot 8210-59 to Germantown depot, and 8260-99 to
Victory Avenue garage.
Yeah but I guess a private company took some from us too!
Trevor
trevor,museum bus #1201 is now parked in ulmer park depot
along side 3758&8928.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
OH they moved it cool!
Trevor
Isn't 1291 a MetroCard Bus?
MM2000
Correct!!! 1291 is MetroCard Bus #MC-1
Trevor
It is in Ulmer Park becouse there is no room for them in Jackie Gleason.
In the 1981 order a few did have the 6V-92TA. They were those SI express buses 1298-1317 and Kingsbridge had 2281-2300. At the time Kingsbridge also had 2253-2262, PA2443-PA2528 - and someone (I'm guessing a KB worker) had written "TURBO" next to the fleet number in the 6V-92TA equipped buses. The 1983 GM RTS also had the dreadful 6V-71.
Wayne
But it was still a 253 Hp Engine!
Trevor
That may be true, but horsepower is only part of the story. The question is: Where (in the rev range) does the horsepower peak. Also the same for the torque. I don't have the figures, but since the 6V-92TA had a larger displacement it 253 horses would be available sooner than the 6V-71. Torque is almost always higher and peaks earlier in a larger displacement engine which effective gives the vehicle quicker acceleration and possibly top speed depending on the gearing. I've driven a few and my experience has been that those RTS with 6V-92TA's would run away from one with the 6V-71N. I don't know if anyone here follows the automobile industry - but a good example of engines of a larger displacement out performing smaller engines with the same horsepower was done by BMW. BMW had a 1.8 4-cylinder, 2.5 6-cylinder and a 4.0 8-cylinder with 138, 189 and 282HP respectively. BMW wanted the cars to accelerate quicker so the engines were bored out to 1.9, 2.8 and 4.4 liters respectively. The 2.8 gained 1 horsepower, but the 1.9 and 4.4 horsepower rating did not increase. However each of the engines reached it's horsepower peak sooner and torque increased and also peaked sooner - resulting in significantly quicker cars.
Wayne
I woke up this morning thinking that it was January
1, 2000. I immediately went to Coney Island Avenue
expecting to see my C49 Mack Buses providing all
service on the B68. After about 3 hours of waiting
in vain, I bumped into a friend of mine and wished
him a Happy New Year. He told me it wasn't January
1st. You can't tell how relieved I was. I thought
that my prophecy that on 1-1-2000 all surface routes
in Brooklyn would be provided by Mack trolley buses
and PCC cars was wrong. 1-1-2000 is still 84 days away.
I thought that on New Year's Day, January 1, 2000, Philadelphia's
first 20 PCC cars (2001-20)and the three Brilliners (2021-23)
would still be running on Route 53, the Wayne Avenue trolley line.
Who wants Neoplan buses on this route?
Dennis. I hadn't even thought of spreading the Return to the Past on 1-1-2000 to cities beyond New York. By all means, bring back the PCC's in Philadelphia. And certainly bring back the old Broad Street cars and let the tunnels fill with a joyous roar. And certainly the Bullets on the Norristown line.
Yes we need to extend this movement to all the cities across the land. I wonder if we could interest any of the Presidential candidates in this issue. No, the hell with contaminating the idea with politicians. We need a grass roots movement.
What's new at the MVM WORLD?
This will be the LAST update of the site on Crosswinds, it will move to Earthlink. Crosswinds sucks.
Updated MVM tutorial, part of the new FEATURES section.
MRM description added to the features section.
Two new stations added to the bottom of the list, I'm still looking for date data for the last group.
Please visit today.
Updates have been made and therefore, MVM World has moved to: http://home.earthlink.net/~onlyjoex. Now we have some new data and the FIRST non subway MVMs. Also, I have combined all the route data from the two SI Ferry stations and the 5 Dyre Line stations into one cell. Check it out and tell me what you think.
It might be a better idea to sort the list of stations by name, not by date.
Also, where are the MVMs in the St. George Ferry Terminal? If they're on the SIRT level, they should be indicated as such.
-Hank
I have no idea where they are. According to the list that the ERA put out, the line is listed as SI Ferry and no control booth is listed, like the entry for Whitehall. Although it might be that the SIR booth doesn't have a number like in the subway. If someone can tell me if they are on the SIR level or the Ferry level, that would be appreciated.
QUESTION IS THERE NO BUS AND OR RAIL SERVICE TO MONCLAIR NEW JERSEY ???
THE REASON WHY I ASKED IS BECAUSE I COULDNT FIND IT ON ANY OF THE NEW JERSEY TRANSIT INFORMATION PAGES ETC....
SO IF ANY OF YOU WHO READ THIS CAN GIVE ME SOME TRANSIT INFORMATION ON MONCLAIR NEW JERSEY THANK YOU !!!
Please stop posting in all caps, it's annoying.
There are two bus route that operate from the Port Authority Bus Terminal to Montclair, NJ on a full time basis, but they are not operated by NJ Transit.
They are operated by DeCamp Bus Lines. Their route numbers are #33, and #66. The #33 tends to run more frequently than the #66 (approximately every half hour to one hour on weekends) and terminates on Bloomfield Ave in the heart of Montclair.
The #66 pretty much goes throughout Montclair and also makes a stop at Park Place and Bloomfield Ave. in Montclair.
Your best bet is the go to the DeCamp Lines ticket window on the street level of the PA's south building. They can give you all the information on which bus servce which parts of Montclair.
my question is this:
is there no weekend bus or rail service in MONCLAIR
NEW JERSEY ???
i cant seem to get any information even from the NJ
transit page etc
WOULD APPRECIATE ANY INFORMATION ANYONE HAS
thank you salamallah
Read it again. While there is no train service on the Montclair Branch on weekends, several NJT bus routes serve the town:
11
28
29
34
97
705 (Saturdays only)
David
Plus, the bus service from NYC Port Authority is provided by DeCamp. I'm not exactly sure which routes serve Montclair, but you should be able to find it on DeCamp's web site.
DeCamp #33 and #66 routes both serve Montclair. #33 goes on Bloomfield Avenue through Montclair Center, while the #66 serves Montclair Hts, Upper Montclair, and Montclair Center.
Check out the schedules at www.decamp.com --
the schedules on the website are not indicated by number, for whatever reason;
#33 bus is "W. Caldwell-New York/New York-W. Caldwell"
#66 bus is "W. Orange-New York/New York-W. Orange"
There are two bus route that operate from the Port Authority Bus Terminal to Montclair, NJ on a full time basis, but they are not operated by NJ Transit.
They are operated by DeCamp Bus Lines. Their route numbers are #33, and #66. The #33 tends to run more frequently than the #66 (approximately every half hour to
one hour on weekends) and terminates on Bloomfield Ave in the heart of Montclair.
The #66 pretty much goes throughout Montclair and also makes a stop at Park Place and Bloomfield Ave. in Montclair.
Your best bet is the go to the DeCamp Lines ticket window on the street level of the PA's south building. They can give you all the information on which bus servce
which parts of Montclair.
Also, you can get to Montclair from Newark, NJ by way of NJ Transit's #11, 28, 29, 34. All buses leave from Newark Penn Station. The #34 leaves Penn Sta to Montclair all day, but is the slowest route. The #11, 28, 29, you have to watch out for, there are some parts of the day when these three lines don't service Penn Station and you would have to take the Newark City Subway to Bloomfield Ave. and then transfer to them. So you would definitely have to consult a timetable for them. But when they operate from Penn Station, they get to Montclair much quicker than the #34.
i assume coaches with the prefix PA means they can use the Port Authority owned tunnels and bridges?
You assume correctly only in the sense that any vehicle can use PA-owned tunnels and bridges. The "PA" prefix means that the Port Authority paid for the vehicle. A $120 million bond issue circa 1980 paid for many NYCT and NJT buses - the PA bought the buses and leased them to the operating agencies for a nominal fee ($1 comes to mind).
David
[i assume coaches with the prefix PA means they can use the Port Authority owned tunnels and bridges?]
Were these coaches orderd to Port Authority Specs or to the specs of the operators of the coaches?
The "PA" buses wee the same specs as the non "PA" buses. NYCTA/MABSTOA first "PA" buses were PA1-175 with the 1980 Grumman Flxible 870. The NYCTA orders between 1980 and 1986 had "PA" buses except the 1984 (3400-3799) and 1985 (3800-4218) orders. In addition to NYCTA and NJT - Westchester County's Bee-Line also has "PA" buses in it's MAN articulated and MCI102-A2 orders.
Wayne
I remember riding on buses like PA1435, PA1532, PA1773, PA2585, PA2603, PA3243, PA3258, PA3312. I don't recall any bus over 3400 with the PA in front. Some had the PA in front then were taken away.
For example: 1767 Interior and exterior- no PA in number.
MM2000
You're right - there were no "PA" buses in the 3400 series. After the 1983 RTS 04 (3001-PA3325) there were no more until the 1986 GM RTS 06 (4300-4599). There were only a few of them (PA buses)and they were all at Kingsbridge originally. I forget the exact number, but Kingsbridge had PA4300-4358 and I believe the PA's went from PA4300 to approx PA4329. I'm pretty sure the PA's in this group didn't go any higher than 4334.
Wayne
4304 at QV never had a PA in front. I rode all 4300s at QV and I don't see any PA in front of the number. 4318 I don't think has the PA either.
MM2000
Yeah - they don't have it now, but they did have it until about the early 1990's. The 4300's at Jamaica, 126 st and Queens Village came from Kingsbridge and I believe the PA was gone by time they were transferred.
Wayne
1700 and 3011 don't have it either. Anybody knows a 4300 that still has the PA in front?
MM2000
With the 1983 RTS then PA's started around PA3096 - I think. If I remember correctly with this group the PA buses originally went to MABSTOA (and Queens Village) depots and the others were at NYCTA depots. With the 1982 RTS all of them were "PA" buses. The 4300 (4300-4358) were originally at KB, but the PA was removed years ago. I think it was removed before the 4300's were transferred out of KB.
Wayne
our 1700 series buses still have the pa on the interior.yukon has about 5 of them.and dont forget 1853.
THey also had a sticker that read
"Purchased by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey"
"Leased to the New York City Transit Authority"
above the bus number, where non-PA buses had "New York City Transit Authority"
-Hank
On Sunday evening I saw a WMATA 1998 Orion V on the Capital Beltway (I-495) going very fast. I paced the bus at 67 MPH on level ground and slight inclines. I wasn't at all suprised as I've never been on a slow WMATA bus.
Wayne
Was on the Q32 today run 107.
MM2000
Does anyone know if the proposed split of the M10 into 2 routes(the M-10 and new M-20) was approved at the last TA Committee Meeting and what was the agenda of the meeting.
Thank You
I don't know how true this is, but a friend of mine told me this new proposed split of the M10 into 2 routes was not approved by the TA.
Why do you often post empty messages?
I think he do that because the post subject/title speaks for itself........
B46M Limited
My sentiments ,,exactly!!!
Steve
Oh, that reminds me of Stormy on nyc.transit, except that you post useful things that contribute to the discussion.
was reading a article yestrday in newsday that said that Queens was getting articulated buses. what lines are getting them? i hope Green line gets some for the Q60. It's a straight trip and they could work on that line.
Put them on the Q-60 (lease or add to Green Lines) and put them on the Q-46 at Union Turnpike
QV has no room for any articulated equipment. Q46 does need artics on that route especially going towards Queens Blvd. All buses get "dogged!" 188 St-Utopia-SJU-164-Parsons-Main are the stops that pick up the most people. (Queens Blvd e'bound). As far as the Q60 is concerned: All they need is more frequent service and to run buses near or close to each other. When dispatchers are not on street, they run good- every 5-10 minutes near each other. When they are out, they run 15-20 minutes far apart. When they're 2 buses 1 behind the other, they stop 1 bus for 10 minutes then let it go. I PERSONALLY HATE THIS! They ran better when 7 buses ran 1 behind the other and they never stopped the drivers.
MM2000
If any thing they would go to new jamaica depot (if ever built) for use on the Merrick corridor lines Q4,5,84,85. And maybe Stsngel for use Main Street Q44/20. butt thats dooubtfull because off peak service doesn't warrent it. If the privates should get artics only routes that should get are:
Green Q10 Lefferts B'lvd, Q11 Woodhaven B'lvd, Q60 Queens b'lvd.
Jamaica Q111,112,113local Guy R Brewer. B'lvd.
Queens Serface Q65A Jewel Ave.
Triboro Q25 Parsons B'lvd, Q33 82nd, 83rd Streets. Of couse in all these cases as is on the Merrick Corridor these is not enouph off peak service to warrent articts so Queens will probably never get atrics.
In the 80's we have Artric here for an evual. ... a Crown ... one week 1982 Nov - Dec., also 1984 a 60' Volvo.
Mr t__:^)
I would like to know who own bus 995, Nova Bus or New York City Transit
Thanks.
This bus is a demonstration unit so it would seem that 995 is owned by NovaBus and Leased to MTA-NYCT for 1 year. Trevor would be able to tell you that this is information is totally correct.
Peace
DaShawn
DASHAWN IS CORRECT!!!!
Trevor
Hi Sir
I came to New York last two weeks, now I want to enter New York city by bus. Would you tell me how to get bus. I live in Suburb at Orangeburg, 10962.
Thank you very much.
Yifan
Metro-North would be your best bet.
MM2000
The only bus service to New York City from Orangeburg that I am aware of is Rockland Coach (Red and Tan) Route 20T. I don't know where in Orangeburg you live, but the time point on the timetable for the 20 is Orangeburg Road and Western Highway in Orangeburg. Other than in rush hours (when service is a little more frequent), the 20T runs about once an hour. For precise schedule information or to get a timetable, call Rockland Coach at (201) 384-2400
The TA as of Monday all Orion CNG are out of serive and the Low Flyer are on a limited uses bases do to a fuel leak in the pumps. This all started when the old CNG fuel station has a explosing in one of the compressor on Friday. The new fuel station now have a leak. The TA was told to close down the new station by Brooklyn Union Gas and NYFD. The new Station was found to have a leak somewere in the system. TWU is backing this move 100%. They don't want anying the happen to the drivers and the riding costermer. The New Flyer will now be taking to Command for fueling. This might be done by drives on there Day off (Good over time of us). This will take anything from 1 week to who knows when.
One more thing. Jackie Gleason have gotten 45 busses from all over the city. These including some 6200's and 6300's Orians from SI (About 6), 400's Orians from Manhatton ( About 6) and RTS from all over the City. I don't think these busses will have the sticker cover from the other depot becouse they will be going back as soon as this problem is fixed right.
That's why I don't agree with the MTA getting rid of the 3900-4218 series. What will happen if JG has this problem again? Then some depots will be extremely short of buses. Some ok, but not all.
MM2000
Mother Hale depot has sent 254 and 255 to Gleason, Yesterday they were delivered and 8pm and 11pm.
ulmer pk has sent 3 9000 series nova buses to jg mon. nite.
ANDY/ULMER PK
TWU doesn't want anything to happen to the drivers because that means less "yes" votes for the contract!
What are the specs of the DD series 50 and 60 engines?
Weight, length and heights?
Series 50 Specifications:
Length: 42.9 in (1090 mm)
Width: 34.7in (883 mm)
Height: 51.2 in (1300mm)
Weight (dry): 2250lbs. (1021 kg.)
Series 60 Specifications:
Length: 57.2 in (1453 mm)
Width: 34.3 in (871 mm)
Height: 50.1 in (1273 mm)
Weight (Dry): 2510 lbs. (1139 kg.)
Horsepower for the Series 50 & 60 engines range from 250 to 500 HP.
Can someone list all the stops for the B103 limited?
B46M Limited
I know this probably not answer your question, but If you go to the security guard at Command, he'll give you a Map of the B103 as well as the BM 1,2,3,4,BQM1 Starret City Express and the B100. It is located at Flatlands ave. you can't miss it .
Flatlands and what?
B46M Limited
B103 West Bound to DT Brooklyn
Start E 94 and Flatlands
E 102 and ave J
E105 and Ave k,l,m
Ave M and E 102st,Rockaway Pkwy,E 93,Remsen,E 85
East 80 street and Ave L,K,J,Flatlands
Glennwood Road and E80,Ralph Ave
Ave H and E56, Utica, Schenectady, E38, New York Ave
Flatbush and Nostrand,Rogers,Foster
Cortelyou and Ocean,E19, E16,Stafford
Coney Island Ave and Beverly Road
Church and E7 (check point)
then the bus takes Prospect Expressway to 4 Ave to Union and then 3 avenue
Down Town Stops are
Flatbush and State
Livingston and Bond,Hoyt and Smith
Boerum and Fulton, Adams
Last stop is Adams and Tillary
I hope this is what you wanted
~~KayBee
Why even bother posting this when you can go to Command Bus Inc.
You see what happens when you try to do something nice for someone. Sorry I took the time to try to help someone out. Bus Talk has changed over the last month. There are a lot of nasty people posting on here.
HEY! I wasn't trying to be nasty, it's nice that some people will still take time out to help others. I was just pointing out the website with the data on the stops in case somebody wanted to look up the other routes.
I appreciate yours and everybody posting to all of my questions. Thank you all!!!!!!!!!
B46M Limited
Maybe to get the information from someone who really rides the system, and give better information than some standard web program. Also to open up possible future dialogue and future topics of discussion on Bus Talk. Some people also go here first than to Command or any other place because we are bus buffs and fans who like giving information. I will also have to agree with Kevin, things have changed here on BT, but we must remember to respect each other and their ideas!
Peace
DaShawn
OK, read my new response to Kevin's message. I did not mean to be nasty, I just pointed out the Command website because it's there and is also useful.
Ok so then I apologize. I took the post the wrong way.
~~KayBee
Thank you very much for this info. It is greatly appreciated.......
B46M Limited
It located on Fountain Ave and Flatlands. If you have the patience to wait a while you can take the B13 bus around the area. the rest of the mass transit terminates at the amil facility or Drew st.(B14,15and 20).If you go by car, take flatlands north past starret city pass the B83 all the way to an area filled with buses from varius depots( school buses, command, Varsity, triboroand maybe jamaica).you'll see a stop sign and the B13 bus stops go past this stop sign to the next street. Command is located right there main entrance is on Flatlands ave.
That's not too far from me.......Thanks a lot for your info and time.......
B46M Limited
You can get the timetable at Command's web site at:
http://www.commandbus.com/routeb103/routeb103ew.htm
but it doesn't list all of the stops.
But the maps at http://www.triborocoach.com/maps/b103w.pdf and http://www.triborocoach.com/maps/b103e.pdf do.
i recently saw a list of buses that said #8319-#8339 were going to Ulmer Park. Instead, i see these buses running out of flatbush while #8340-#8350 is running from Ulmer Park. is this a temparary thing or a permant shift of the 8300's? let me know.
speaking with maitinence forman earlier this year,i was told
ulmer park was to receive a fleet of 8300 series buses from
mother hale depot to replace our aging 3000 fleet.we ended up
getting 4755 thru 4791 from amsterdam and 8341 thru 8350 from
mother hale.the 4700's are in worse shape than our 3000's!!!!
the 8300's are as slow as they come.
ANDY/ULMER PK
the 4700's dodnt look that bad, because i remember ulmer park had #4683-#4719 orignally. if maitencce can keep the scratches off these buses, they look really good.
If the 8300's are so slow (and that whole group is) why do you want them? Since Ulmer Park always gets the worst buses in Brooklyn, they'll replace the 4700's at UP when they are scrapped!
Where are the 8500s from Jackie Gleason going when the New Flyer Order is complete? Whatever the next order of new local buses is going to be i strongly feel Ulmer Park should get the bulk of it. If and when the artics come to Flatbush, UP should get their 9300 and 9400s. I know its a union issue but what did UP do to get screwed like this?
~~KayBee
your right,it is a union issue.the offical reason given to us
is that our express coachs (9300's) bring the average fleet age
of our buses up to par with that of the brooklyn divison.this is
the way it is in ulmer park.if you are an express bus operator,
you drive a newer bus.it is not even a seniority thing.many
oldtimers don't like working express lines,myself included,but
we end up driving the old buses because we pick local lines.
some of us have been driving the same buses for 15 years!
you should also know that ulmer park was supposed to get part
of the new bus order that went to eny (4900's/5000's),but the
brooklyn divison bosses told our union that we didn't deserve
them because we take to many sick days and don't cover all of
our work.instead,we got from eny 7500's & 4000's.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
the rumor i heard why ulmper park didnt get local new buses is supposedly it costs money to train drivers on the 4900's-5200's series, and they were not going to pay ulmer park the money.
looks like ulmer park gets shafted again
As an enthuised bus buff, I am trying to obtain an actual photograph of New York City Transit's Museum Bus #3758 (1962-63 GMC New Look TDH-5303). When visiting the N.Y. Transit Museum back in 1993, I purchased an actual photograph of a 1966 GM TDH-5303AC New Look Coach #8466 at the Museum Store. Can anybody also tell me if N.Y.C. Transit's Department Of Buses at 25 Jamaica Avenue happens to keep any color photographs of 1963 Transit Museum bus #3758 in their database? If so, I would like to see the Transit Museum Store sell 8X10 glossy photograph duplicates of Museum Bus #3758.
that bus is in storage at ulmer park along with a 1200 rts also an 8800 bus that used to be an express coach they used to be stored in jackie gleason but where moved to ulmer park when the 27x was sent there, they had no room to store them.
This 1962-63 GMC 5303-TDH model former Transit Authority bus #3758 might be housed at the Ulmer Park Bus Depot for storage. The only problem is that if I were to take a full photograph of this Vintage bus, this particular bus is probably blocked by other buses. If I were to schedule a visit to the Ulmer Park Depot, could anybody from the Maintenance staff temporarily move the equipment away from this 1963 green bus so I can get an overall full view photograph of that bus? Or might it be possible for N.Y.C. Transit's Photographer
Mike Spano to take a full front/side view picture of former T.A. bus 3758?
As a big bus buff, why does 1962-63 GMC New Look TDH-5303 New Look N.Y.C. Transit Authority Museum Bus #3758 have to be parked so close and be blocked by more modern Transit buses and other equipment at the Ulmer Park Bus Depot? When visiting the Jackie Gleason Bus Depot back in 1996, I had noticed that a 1947 GMC Old Look New York Transportation bus was parked in a viewable location with ample space.
Therefore, why can't the maintenance workers at Ulmer Park also have the former green body 1962-63 New York City Transit Authority bus #3758 parked in a location that is far more viewable for photographing
without being blocked by the other equipment?
ulmer park is a small garage and the museum buses in our
care need to be protected from accident damage.last month,
someone backed into rts#1201 and broke the drivers window and
mirror.i also take pictures of the old buses.the best places
for pictures is at the bus rodeos and bus fests.also a hint;
if you come here around 3:30-4:00,you may not have anything in
your way.
ANDY/ULMER PARK
i used to work in ulmer park. are these buses still on track one.id like to see 1201. has the interior been restored to its original colors?
actually nyct rules forbid photography on the property without authorization and one could be arrested for same. having said this i too am a buff as well as an operator and hope you get your desired pictures.1201 has never been showcased by transit at a festival. i do have some pictures of 3758 somewhere in my house.
Still while it may be forbidden to photograph any Vintage New York City Transit Authority buses on the grounds of N.Y.C. Transit's Ulmer Park Depot, could you also tell me if the NYC Transit's Department Of Buses main headquarters at 25 Jamaica Avenue in East New York happens to keep any color photographs of 1962-63 GMC TDH-5303 New Look Bus #3758?
If you people want the photograph of 1962-63 GMC TDH-5303 New Look Bus #3758?? Well go to My BusFest's Page & you will find New Look Bus #3758.
Peace Out
Meaney
First of all, I waited at least 20 minutes for a Q60 at Queens Center at 830am this morning and 1 bus showed up. I let it go cause it was far too crowded (Bus was 621). Then about 10-15 minutes later, I saw 3 buses 1 behind the other 1151, 5520 and 1173. In that order they took off from Queens Center. I got on 1173 and the driver was saying why i got on this bus rather than the other 2 and I said they were too crowded. Little that I knew that they would let all the people off 1173 to get on 5520 at 63 Dr. 1151 took off. 5520 was being held up till 1173 pulled in then he took off FULL seated load. I think this is the reason why the Q60 is a disaster. It's the dispatchers, NOT THE DRIVERS! I want to know why Green Lines constantly does this with their Q60 buses, just let the buses go help each other out. They let 2-3-4 buses run near each other at 5-6pm, why not during 8-9am?
FR
In the ayem, buses are still pulling out. In the peeyem, (ideally) all buses are in service.
If you would ride the entire line from end to end a few times, you will realize that schedule adherence is impossible due to traffic conditions. 1173 may have been held back because the dispatcher was told via radio that another long delay was looming, and so as not to have another long gap in service, 1173 was being held back.
One word for GBL,atriculated buses on the 10,11 and 60(maybe the 8,35 and 41 also)
Originally the Q60 was a trolly line running over the 59th St. Bridge, under the #7 train through part of Queens and to a trolly barn in almost the middle of nowhere in South Jamaica while plenty of Queens was still undeveloped.
Why the Q60 bus route in the year 2000 should continue to duplicate the trolley line is just a matter of tradition. The Q60 should be broken, perhaps one line going from 2nd Av. Manhattan to the Shopping Centers in Rego Park and another line going from Rego Park to the middle of Jamaica. Early morning, late nights and Sundays one bus could probably handle both halves but not during busy rush hours. If there's a tie up on the 59th Street Bridge, commuters going from South Jamaica to Forest Hills have to suffer...miles from the original problem.
It's silly how bus routes are divided up in Queens where there are so few subway lines for the large population. If you live along the Q19B line, your bus never gets caught in traffic getting you to the subway. The line is only 30 blocks long. But if you need the Q60 to get around, you get more delays than you do reliable service using a line that stretches from Midtown to South Jamaica...on the busiest street in the borough...twelve lanes wide in some places.
Reggie
According to fairly reliable sources, Westside Depot is scheduled to be razed in the next couple of years. 100th Street Depot is still having fights with Mt. Sinai Hospital so reconstruction will be delayed, possibly by years. When Westside is demolished, they will move up to the current United Parcel Service location at W. 43rd Street. Hudson Pier Depot, scheduled to move to Westside, will not have a Westside to move to, and therefore will remain at its current location. Oh yes, one more minor note: WS may not be demolished. That decision rests in the hands of the powers that be in NYC government and the Javits Center.
Who owns Westside depot anyway? I thought the plan was once Coliseum and 100st depots were reconstructed, Amsterdam and Hudson Pier would be torn down. Oh well, I like Amsterdam and Hudson.The longer they're around, the better.
Hudson and Amsterdam will close after Mother Hale is torn down and rebuilt in apporx 5 years. Hudson maybe sooner after 100th Street reopens since it may fall in the Hudson River.
West Side Depot is owned by the TA
Right, the Depot is owned by the TA but who owns the land that the depot sits on? With the current talks by the grand wizard at City Hall that area is a real hot spot for his grand plans, and if he gets his way Westside is going bye-bye! As for Hudson, Hudson was scheduled to close in 2001 but with all the things going on now that may be postponed a little longer than originally planned. With Mt.Sinai they always have their noses stuck in something that really does not concern them. The depot is up on Lexington Avenue and elevated were as Mt. Sinai is further down on the opposite side of the MNCR El. This kind of thing is just ridiculus and this is why alot of projects get done and some don't.
Peace
DaShawn
I thought the words "razed" and "demolish" has the same meaning!....Hudson won' t last too much longer because it is deteriorating into the river!...Closing West Side? Another example of Money Thrown Away, if it is true, taking into account all the money spent into making it into a TA/MABSTOA facility.
I was reading a few post about the fates of Hudson Pier and the "new" WestSide facility. I was wondering hiw much did the city pay to convert the old Greyhoud facility to WestSide Depot and how much did it cost to build a new depot from scratch?
As many people may know ther is a bus route privatly owned that runs through Willamsburg and Bourough Park. Now I know they operate some rout known as the B110, but I have also noticed that they uses paste on labes for this route. Si maybe it is just my eyes or the paste wore off, but some of the se routes are labled B11. I wasa suprised to see this beacause this was not the B11 that I was familiar with.Does Ta or even jackie G.depot know of this or is this a plian accidental mistake??????????
The B110 is a privet company. It run from Sunday-Friday afternoon. The line is road by the Jewish People of the area.
It is operated by the Hassidic Jewish population
----bet 18 av 49 Boro Park,,,and Taylor St Williamsburg
I believe that the company name is Private Transportation, Inc.
I sometimes see one of their buses northbound on Carlton Avenue in Fort Greene, crossing DeKalb Ave. Probably headed to Park Ave (Brooklyn) where it probably makes a right and goes to Kent Ave. Interestly the bus I always see is ---------- a real live Grumman Flxible 870. Anybody know the history of the vehicle? Do they have more than one bus in their fleet?
Also, what is the fare? Since the route is operated by extremely orthodox Jews, how do they handle the seperation of men and women??
Is there a wall down the middle of the coach (known in Hebrew as a "Mehitza" I think), or are there seperate runs for each sex? Also can "outsiders" such as you and me ride??
I am not joking about the seperation of the sexes. Watch a movie called "Stranger Among Us" starring Melanie Griffith. It is about a murder in the orthodox community and the NYPD have to get a detective into that cloistered world (Griffith) in order to solve the crime. It will give you an idea of how the Orhodox Jews live in Williamsburg. It appears on TV occasionally and might even be out on video.
They have several buses in their fleet.I don't know the name of the street, but if you take a northbound F train from 4 ave, you can see the buses on some side street.There are several tour bus companies in the area.
They have about 6 maybe 8 bussses. I see five days a week becouse I am on the B16. They have old Command fare Boxes in them so they can take dollor bills but I do not know what the fare is. The man and woman seat mixed in the busses for what I can see. I also think the atleast 2 of the busses are old MTA Grummin busses.
They run from 18 Ave between 49th and 50th Strees. They flower the B11 route up to Fort Hamelton Ave up to McDonal Ave. From there I do not know the rest of the route.
I hope this help alittle bit.
One more thing I know that one of the busses have Two Fare boxes in it with one of them cover up.
i know the full route and information about the serivce:
starts at 18th av and 49th street
down 49th street to Fort Hamilton PArkway
Fort Hamilton Parkway to McDonald Avenue
McDonald Avenue to via 10th Street to Prospect Expressway via Brooklyn
Queens Expressway
turns off BQE at Bedford/Flushing Avenue
down Bedford Avenue to Ross street
right on Ross street to Nostrand Avenue
return:
down Nostrand Avenue to Wallabout Street
Wallabout Street to Flushing Avenue
Flushing Avenue to BQE/Gowanus Expressway
McDonald Avenue to Fort Hamilton Parkway
Fort Hamilton Parkway to 50th Street
50th street to 18th Avenue
Service normally operates Sunday-Friday( service ends earlier on Friday due to Jewish Holidays). There is no service on Saturdays and or major holidays of Jewish tradition.
Fare i believe is $2.00 and accepts dollar bills.
company is Private Transportation Corp. I believe their garage is on 2nd Avenue near 7th Street.
street is 2nd avenue near 7th street
i've been on the bus. the men sit in the front, women in back. if bus is real crowded, the women get on in the back. men always have choice seats, no men stand, women do.
I am not Hasadic(reform jew), and as long as your wear something on your head, you can get on. i've been on the bus, not bad grumman
this is very similar to nyct
I have asked myself this question for a while why did the transit remove the B41 from Furman st.??????? I mean it good that the 25 now runs 24/7 but but connecting that area with area that 41 already runs through helps this idea. How many people in Borrklyn hieghts are going to Broadway junction by bus when there is the A and C lines running there. was it because of traffic or what I would like to know.
The B41 was removed from Furman Street ("Fulton Landing") because there is VERY little riding into and out of the area. Of the two routes serving the area at the time (B41 and B25), the B41 has much more service, is much more complicated to schedule and operate, and is much more expensive to run.
David
[I have asked myself this question for a while why did the transit remove the B41 from Furman st.??????? I mean it good that the 25 now runs 24/7 but but connecting that area with area that 41 already runs through helps this idea. How many people in Borrklyn hieghts are going to Broadway junction by bus when there is the A and C lines running there. was it because of traffic or what I would like to know.]
they orignally moved the b41 from furman street because Flatbush Depot(they run the B41) was supposed to get articulated buses. apparently, there isnt enough room to turnaround the buses, so they cut it back.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Flatbush isn't getting articulated buses for YEARS!!!!!! The artics that will go to Flatbush haven't been ordered yet! Furthermore, articulated buses are EASIER to turn than standard 40' buses (look in the archives; we covered this a couple of months ago, class!) because they're not 60' long -- they're 35' + 25' long.
The B41 was cut back for financial reasons, and financial reasons ONLY. It just wasn't worth the time, money, or effort to send buses to a place very few people wanted to go.
David
[they orignally moved the b41 from furman street because Flatbush Depot(they run the B41) was supposed to get articulated buses. apparently, there isnt enough room to turnaround the buses, so they cut it back.]
I don't know where you have received that information, but the artics for Flatbush has been ordered already and has been posted here on Bus Talk! The 140 option on the current New Flyer order is due to be delivered in 2000, alot of those units from this option order are going to Flatbush! Another person who can confirm this is Trevor who gets his information from the MTA directly every week! Now one of the reasons is financial, but that is not the only reason. And if you check your math that is 60 feet! The New Flyer has the smallest turning radius in the industry for a 60 foot artic! 41 feet according to their documentation.
Peace
DaShawn
1. My job function requires that I know who's getting articulated buses, and when, at least in Brooklyn. I won't go beyond that.
2. The current New Flyer artic order (260+140 option) is not for Flatbush. The next order (140 to be purchased in 2000 and 260 to be purchased in 2001 -- see Page 2 of the blue section of the MTA 2000-2004 Capital Program) will include buses for Flatbush.
3. I know that 35+25=60. I was simply trying to point out that an artic isn't 60 solid feet of bus; it's really two short buses joined together. The short turning radius you cited counteracts the argument that a route would be truncated because articulated buses couldn't turn around on it.
David
[I don't know where you have received that information, but the artics for Flatbush has been ordered already and has been posted here on Bus Talk! The 140 option on the current New Flyer order is due to be delivered in 2000, alot of those units from this option order are going to Flatbush! Another person who can confirm this is Trevor who gets his information from the MTA directly every week! Now one of the reasons is financial, but that is not the only reason. And if you check your math that is 60 feet! The New Flyer has the smallest turning radius in the industry for a 60 foot artic! 41 feet according to their documentation.
Peace
DaShawn]
I understand what you are saying but there has been some chages since the capital plan that you speak of has been put out. According to the New Procurement Department and Tevor Logan who also passes that information to me from New Procurement, The 260 order for the New Flyer D60 is for 1999 to 2000 not 2001. Delveries start next month. The 140 option slated for 2000 will not be excercised at that current time and pushed further along since there are some more units coming in and from other manufacturers, including New Flyer for more low floor CNG units for the Bronx. This information is as current as of yesterday prior to my posting. This information that I posted is coming straight from the "Horses Mouth" so to speak. This is not to argue with you, but just get out the information and to also learn for yourself and others.
Peace
DaShawn
1. The capital plan I speak of is dated October 1999. We are still in October 1999. What's more recent than that?
2. The 260 New Flyer D60s you cited are from the order that was placed in 1998. These buses start with 5250 and are coming in now. They will be followed by 140, from the option to the order that was placed in 1998. The 260+140 I referenced from the MTA Capital Program have not been ordered yet -- they are scheduled to be ordered in 2000-2001, as I previously stated.
3. Neither the September nor the October NYCT Committee Agenda had a request for approval of a bus order, whether it be 125 Orion VIs or New Flyer D40LFs or whatever you can come up with. The Board has to approve any purchase.
DaShawn and Trevor may very well turn out to be right. But what I have presented is the latest information that is in print, in the public domain, from MTA, plus information that has been given to my office (which office, I will not say) from the Department of Buses.
David
[I understand what you are saying but there has been some chages since the capital plan that you speak of has been put out. According to the New Procurement Department and Tevor Logan who also passes that information to me from New Procurement, The 260 order for the New Flyer D60 is for 1999 to 2000 not 2001. Delveries start next month. The 140 option slated for 2000 will not be excercised at that current time and pushed further along since there are some more units coming in and from other manufacturers, including New Flyer for more low floor CNG units for the Bronx. This information is as current as of yesterday prior to my posting. This information that I posted is coming straight from the "Horses Mouth" so to speak. This is not to argue with you, but just get out the information and to also learn for yourself and others.]
Someone should have gone back in time 48 years ago when the
"Bingham Macks" were used to motorize the B41-Flatbush Avenue
trolley route on March 7, 1951. These Macks were better buses.
I rode #3048 from Triboro Coach on the Q53 today (orion V) and was talking to the driver. he told me a lot of rumors. can anyone confirm these?
1-Queens Surface is getting all of Triboro's Orions.
2-Triboro is to recieve all of commands old buses.
3-Triboro is in serious need of a second garage, yet noone know why this hasnt happened yet.
4-Triboro's MCI fleet is to be scrapped.
please help with any information if you can.
Triboro is one of the "Cooper" companies within the NYC-DOT group of "privates". They own the garage where most of their fleet can be parked inside. At QSC we have no such facility, so use a outside parking lot.
The Cooper companies frequently swap equip. based on their individual needs, i.e. moves from Command to Triboro.
Re. QSC getting their new Orions ... haven't heard it myself here. The only reason would relate to explosion proofing their garage and upgrading their CNG filling station (their's is slow, we have a brand new high speed station with three pumps). I'll leave it to others to answer these points as I don't know.
Personally I hope DOT doesn't make us a CNG only depot, as it could really give us a problem should something go wrong with the filling station. (we could go to Triboro, Command, or Con Ed for a fill up, but it would be very time consumming)
BTW, Our MCIs are staying so at least 55 coaches will still take diesel fuel.
Mr t__:^)
The TA knows about trouble with CNG. With the two thing that happen at Jackie Gleason this past week. One the old station having blown up during its removel. Two the new fueling station depoveping leeks and having it out of service along with all the CNG busses. This cause the TA to have other depot give us busses. Well yesterday the old station was completley removed and the new station was open again and all the CNG busses are back in sevice.
Why do the orion 6000 series have a small grate on the curb side engine acess door? The older orion sdon't have that.
What is the difference between a "wastegated" turbocharger and a regular turbo?
NIMBYs, aren't they always fun? NIMBYs are even in the new version of Sim City (3000). I just saw on channel 11 how E. Harlem NIMBYs are complaining about the new 100 Street Depot (wasn't it there before too?) and are crying racism (the cry of those with no case) because most depots are north of 96th Street. This just proves one thing: When building a new depot, never EVER close the one being replaced.
The article is in the Daily News as well. It seems that they are mostly complaining about the fumes. I believe that Harlem have a high asthma rate. I still beleive that they should continue with the rebuilding process........
B46M Limited
Hey B46, Old 100st Depot are going to torn down & will build a new 100st Depot open in 2001. I saw the article but those people never understand what is going on & had no idea what next. Well i grow up in East Harlem for 23 years & i have no health problem. I don't believe fumes that make everybody get asthma & East Harlem doesn't not have the high asthma rate. Don't even think this is your idea ok!!!!
Peace Out
Meaney
Oh i forget something people that live around the old 100st Depot want depot to reopen & last month someone got stabbed in front of old 100st depot. There a guys who protest the depot want it not to reopen because of fumes than give people asthma but i don't believe fumes give people a asthma. This guy is looking for troblem & i don't know what his name. Any way im tired of people protest for nothing & never understand what is going on. Just like Rev. Al Sharpton looking for troblem too.
Peace Out
Meaney
This is not my idea. It was what I read in the newspaper........
B46M Limited
I looks like the asthma problem is caused by cockroaches and/or the poison used to kill them. But people use it as an excuse to complain.
But the newspapers are to blame, too, for giving these people a forum. What share of the people of East Harlem do you think are selfish, stupid, NIMBY nuts? One percent? Two percent? But they are ones in the newspaper. All you hear is NIMBY, NIMBY, NIMBY.
saw this story on ny1 news. nyct has plans to send 140 articulated buses there when and if it opens in 2001. it seems they are giving up on flatbush as an artic depot.
But the 41 and the 46 NEED Artics (maybe the 44 too, I don't know).
Yes, the B44 need the artics as well....... B41,44, and 46 need the artics. These buses are always crowded all day. The B49 is the bus that I do not think need the artics. I could be wrong........
B46M Limited
The original Plan was to make Flatbush all artics. And probably only three line would stay 41, 44, 46, because off space requirements. but because of the gas leak the modification may not be done. BVecaue teh community wants to TA to leave the premisis because they don't trust them.
Does anyone know what the acronym CELECT stand for? Its the engine control system for Cummins. Is it pronounced Cel-lit, Cel-lect or
Ca-lit? Thanks a lot.
I'm just guessing but, Cummins ELectronic Engine ConTrol. That assumes that it's electronic of course. and remember, I'M JUST GUESSING.
It most likely is electronic. It's really the only way to meet emissions regulations.
-Hank
For a complete description and information on these beautiful historic photos to be sold at auction, and for a thumbnail JPEG of each of the bus types, check out eBay Items #181956439 (GMC Model TDH-5101) and #181969034 (Bingham Mack Model C-50) . Auction closes 10-21-99.
What is the exact www. for ebay? Could someone please post it
http://www.ebay.com
It's that simple.
Once you get there, then the going gets rough if you're not familiar with the place.
I found that part, but what about the stuff we like on transit any ideas?
You, yourself, will have to go to eBay and find out. They DO have a search feature.
I have too many other things to do besides look up each and every item for other people, sorry.
I'll probably be construed as being nasty again, but: whenever you know something's name and not it's URL, you can bet the URL is name.com or www.name.com. If that doesn't work, then you can search or ask (or try .net, .org, .gov, .mil whatever extensions).
Check out Transitalk at
http://geocities.com/transitalk
for the juiciest news about the MTA-NYC Bus Fleet and new pictures!!!
Thie weeks news is one of epic proportions! Just click on the MTA-New York City Bus Roster and you will be in the know!
Trevor
Besides the Coliseum order. What depots are these buses going to? Are there any info on this??????/
B46M Limited
The CNG Low Floor "NEXT" order will all go to Coliseum,
The Hybrid Order will all go to Manhattanville. This is the correct information as of today!!!!!!!!!
After Coliseum recieves their order, THEN other garages will recieve consideration for CNG upgrades!
Trevor
You mean after they actually finish Coliseum. You can't put buses in a non-existant depot! :)
On Staten Island, the call is for a entirely new third depot, with CNG fueled buses. Since there are current nothing but whispers about a much-needed new depot on SI, our brand-new nearly 300-bus x-bus fleet are all diesels, and these are really the buses that need the space, since there are height restrictions in the existing depots (they can't get as many of them in there as they'd like, because there are low-overhead sections)
-Hank
I found out today from a driver from Yukon, 50 new MCI's to be delivered to Yukon in the next month and another 50 in January. Out go the old RTS's. Brian
Well the Order is more like this the first 80 are going to Yukon, while the other 20 go to Castleton, the MCI order will be completed by Mid-December NOT January! While the 50/50 deal may be all well and true but the Order will be completed before the end of 1999.
Trevor
given the fact they annexed forest hill road they can still not fit 80 buses there. do they have plans to park buses in the staten island mall too?
I figure they'll start using the unused overpasses over Richmond Ave and Arthur Kill Rd. I think we now show a critical need for additional depot space. Maybe they can use the parking lot at the mostly abandoned West Shore Plaza shopping center.
-Hank
the perfect site for a third depot,there is noone around to bother. do you know how many stores are left there?
Last time I was there, it was just Modell's and a Bally's. Heck, just turn one of the empty stores into an office/crew room, and you can start using the large, empty parking lot as a depot immediately. You're right next to the West Shore Xway (which can get you to the area of Castleton Depot quickly), and only about 3 miles from Yukon (South Ave to Travis Ave to Richmond Ave, and you're there!) so you can put any route there.
-Hank
has anyone suggested this to nyct. i wonder if the owner would agree to this. perhaps larry hanley should be informed of this idea.
I'm sure the property owner would agree, since vacant property generates no income. Of course, the buses would still need to be serviced at Yukon or Castleton, but they can be rolled right out in the morning.
-Hank
While the New York Transit Museum sponsors the Anual Bus Festivals outside the former subway station in Downtown Brooklyn every Spring, there are also many of us bus buffs who want to see those early New York City Transit Authority buses that we grew up riding on during our childhood years. For nearly a quarter of a century there has been an indoor Transit Museum that is only capable of storing Antique Subway Cars and visual transit artifacts. I am aware that if you join as a member to the N.Y. Transit Museum, you can give payment donations of up to $500.00. Would'nt also be great if the Transit Museum started collecting donations towards having an actual indoor Bus Museum constructed to store the former Transit Authority buses?
Also, would'nt it be terriffic if people could actually visit the Museum Buses on a regular basis without having to wait for either the Bus Festival or Bus Roadeo? You realize that in Ohio there is a Museum dedicated to displaying their Vintage Transit Bus. Now it is time for Transit Bus Enthuisiasts including myself to encourage the MTA and members of the Transit Museum to start collecting funds for building a Bus Garage just for storing only Transit Museum Buses.
Do you know the name of the museum, its location, and if it has a web site? Thanks.
It's the Ohio Museum of Transportation located in Kent, OH.
The web address is www.omot.org
If there's a museum, it has to be in an old depot? How about this Crosstown I hear about? What about Hudson Pier when it closes?
Ohio Transit Museum, there is a way to access it from NY Transit but I forgot how
Great idea, however you must realize that you would need a lot of room to store and display the equipment, hopefully in a place that is easily accesible by all views. Since that type of real estate is hardly to find in the NYC area, it would be very expensive if a site could be found. Using an old depot is a possibility (without assessing the costs to make the facility comply with the Americans with Disabilites Act. However the politicians might argue that the citizenry would be better served by selling the site to a developer and putting it back on the tax rolls.
I just got it in the mail today and was just wondering if there was on for the subways.
I got mine too today, they did a little guide on subways called Facts and Figures in like 1995, they haven't done one since I think. Maybe you can obtain one, I doubt it though.
I just added 6 new pictures to my webpage at www.angelfire.com/ny3/nycbuspage.
Peace Out
-Clayton
Read on the MTA's www site the M79 and 86 will only be served by articulated buses in January and in the spring respectively. Will there be many on the 79 in late December?
Being that my Brother Eric Updale is employed as a bus operator on Staten Island at the Yukon Bus Depot for New York City Transit under Amagumated Transport Union Local 726, is'nt there a way he can get conscent to visit Transit Museum 1962-63 GM Bus #3758 at the Ulmer Park Bus Depot?
Since JG is to recieve 190 of the low floor buses, how about sending the 8500's to Ulmer Park? Ulmer Park does need new buses, and the 8500
s are the best they can get..at least for now.
That if Jackie Gleason get all the low flows. The fuel station was closed down again today(Sunday). I think that it will be open tomorrow(Monday). Jackie Gleason still has mose of the londed busses from other depot. The only ones that went back are the ones from SI>
i saw #473 on the b35 today, and i know that number is from castleton depor, so i guess they all didnt go back to staten island.
p.s. saw #3491 on Brighton Beach Avenue today with manhattanville depot. must be running on b68,unless ulmer park got them.
Last night while I was on Northern Blvd and 96 St, I saw cTc bus 784 parked outside and the sign said CHARTER. Is this bus gonna be sold to the church in front on 96 St? Otherwise, what's it doing there?
MM2000
While going through some papers the other day I came across a roster of NYCT buses from sometime in 1988. It is not of the same format of Glenn Rowe's roster. It just shows the makes ,models, years and numbers of buses.
So here it goes:
MAKE MODEL NUMBERS YEAR BUILT
GMC 5303AC 5000-5222 1966*
GMC 5303A 5100-5159 1968**
GMC 5305A 5200-5284 1970**
GMC 5309A 5300-5340,5365-5404 1972**
GMC 5310A 5341-5364 1972**
GMC 5309A 5500-5527 1972**
GMC 5310A 5528-5576 1973**
FLXIBLE 53102-6-1 9000-9309 1977-78
GMC RTS04 1201-1658,2201-2579 1981
GMC RTS04 1659-1858,2580-2704 1982
GMC RTS04 3001-3325 1983
GMC RTS04 3400-3799 1984
GMC RTS04 3800-4218 1985
GMC RTS04 4300-4599 1986
GMC RTS04 4600-4899 1987
* rehabbed by BLITZ 1984-85
**Rehabbed by BLITZ 1984-85. 58 non-rehabbed buses of these models are also in service.
If anybody has anything to add or anything similar from years gone by I think it would be intersting for evrybody on here.
mike m
Just a couple of things: The 1966 TDH-5303AC Blitz rebuilds were 5000-5022. The 1968 GMC were model T6H-5305A. The 1986 GM RTS were 06 models and the 1987 RTS (06 model) were built by TMC.
Wayne
In 1988, there were still 7000 series flxibles and 6000 series GM Fishbowls running; where are they on this roster? I remember 7000 and 9000 series Flxs until the 8000 series RTS came in, on Staten Island at least. 5000 and 6000 GM/Blitz Fishbowls until 93 when the first of the Orions arrived (101-172, nee 93001-93072)
-Hank
Go back 40 years before that when the 2000-series GM TDH-4507s
began operating in Queens and Brooklyn while the 3000-series St.
Louis trolleybuses entered service on St. John's Place, Bergen
Street, and Tompkins Avenue, and when Maspeth bus garage reopened.
It was actually 50 years, not 40, when Maspeth garage opened, the
2000's were in service, and the new trolleybuses were being
delivered and already in service.
they also ran on lorimer st, flushing ave, graham av and cortelyou road. does anyone remember what yards they were housed at?
Hey, I was at 106th street and broadway crossing the street and I saw an M60 driver honk and wave at me, bus drivers don't just do that because they feel like it. I think that driver knew me! I was wearing a white Quiksilver t-shirt with cargo pants and an old Canon camera. If that driver was you please respond.
Peace Out
-Clayton
I was lucky enough to attend Game 4 of the NLCS. Very exciting game. I parked in the muni lot in Flushing and took the subway. Best way to go to avoid the parking lot crush at the end of the game. Someone called WFAN on a cell phone at 11:19PM. She was still trying to get out while I and my friend were already on the NSP at Shelter Rock Road.
Anyway two bus items regarding the game. Parked by the subway stairs and back fence -- NYCPD GMC RTS II - Mobile Command Center. It really looks sharp....Nice Livery.
On the way back to Main Street I saw from the train that the old Tastee Bakery factory lot is now an overflow lot for Stengel Depot. I noticed (from the rear) a fishbowl. It was dark and hard to see but it did not appear to have any colors on it. The tag attached to the a/c unit did not appear to have any number. What's the story with this bus????
I didn't know about any fishbowls at Stengel but I have seen a 1975 Flxible New look 53102-6-1 (#7552) there. Maybe the fishbowl is a leftover Blitz rebuild.
Wayne
They have a 7000 series Flx at Casey Stengal that, last I saw, was labeled 'Chemical Safety Training Program'
-Hank
When I went to the US Open, CS does have a fishbowl for NYPD use. I have proof on my site, look at Yard Pictures and you will see a little cut out of a Fishbowl in one of the pics.
Peace Out
-Clayton
Speaking of fishbowls, do the express line riders of NY Bus Service realize how fortunate they are to be able to ride on those suburban fishbowls? I was walking to my company's apartment at 40th and 2d and two of those red-white-and blue beauties zipped south on 2d. OOOOOHHH!!
Yeah - Those Canadian fishbowls (T8H-5308A) are awesome. I ride them every chance I get. They are rarely on the streets during off peak hours. I always wished that NYBS had purchased more than 25. I'll always remember when they were the new you'd see four or five them together zooming up Madison Ave. I like the Classics too, but again those fishbowls are great. Give me them any day over the RTS, but then again... I'd choose most buses over the RTS - I'm glad NYBS and Liberty Lines Express didn't get stuck the RTS.
Wayne
Who could believe this? It was 40 years ago that the NYCTA's
first new green fishbowl buses (1-190) operated from Flatbush
garage.
It this was you talking about Ex #5320 GM?
Peace Out
Meaney
Could have been. I was talking to my friend while standing (for one stop) outside of the motorman/conductor booth, looking out of the door window through the space between the cars. Seeing the new look was a surprise + the lot was not well lit + being 30 or 40 ft up in the air and its at night did not make for a great ID. Thanx for answering so quickly
Meaney, that was what I was talking about! Thanks for pointing that out.
Peace Out
-Clayton
It was 6179. You can't see the number board too well.
Since many people are naming themselves after bus routes here, I decided to follow. Over on SubTalk I use the D train, (well, I should use the Q to be more accurate) and I've decided to use my bus route here.
If there are any objections, you could e-mail me and I'll discuss it.
Next Stop Fillmore Rd and Marine Pkwy. Change here for a walk to Joe Torre s childhood home
TransiTALK had its complete update today, Including Brand New Pictures from the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (Metrobus) in Washington DC.
Check out the Hot Pics along with Fresh new pics from NYCMTA, NYCDOT, NJT, and others!
http://geocities.com/transitalk/NYCTransit.html
Trevor
Looks good! Do you plan to add pics of the other buses in WMATA's active fleet??? GM TDH-5301, 5304, T6H-5305A, 5306A, Flxible 530096-6-1 and the Gillig Phantom (30 feet long).
Wayne
Oops - and how could I forget those venerable GM RTS II 03 series. WMATA has recently placed Orion II buses in service. I've seen them on routes that normally have 30 foot buses and some late night runs.
Wayne
Acutallly I'm planning a field trip to DC just for more of pics of what I missed, I already have pics of some GMC RTSs and GMC New Looks but I'm holding out to post them for the next update!!!!!
Trevor
Hey Trevor, i really like the Washington DC Metro & i never been on the Metro buses almost 20 years now but i seen alot of buses on Rt 7 near Tyson Cornor mall & Washington DC area. I been on Metrorail once that was in 1985 & the Metrorail cars are clean & smooth. Any way im glad you got a pictures of DC buses & rail & hope you will add more soon. By the way im planing to go to washington dc next month or december because my sister is moving back to virgina again.
Peace Out
Meaney
while in brooklyn today saw several gleason buses but not one new flyer. is there a problem besides what happened 2 weeks ago and if so how is nyct managing to keep it quiet.
I saw several New Flyer low-floors on "downtown" lines today.
David
[while in brooklyn today saw several gleason buses but not one new flyer. is there a problem besides what happened 2 weeks ago and if so how is nyct managing to keep it quiet.]
They are running. We only have 45 of them so it hard to fined one.
Why are there just 45? Weren't all of them supposed to be delivered last summer? Are the new NF Artics origainlly scheduled to come late this year goind to be delayed as well?
The rest of the FL New Flyers are going to be delived next year. There was a delay in deliveing becouse of the TA have problums with the new Fuel station. The new Flyer 60 are not going to be held up becouse they are built on different line at the factory.
i heard 55 were supposed to be delivered in 99. the roster currently lists 45. will the other 10 still arrive in 99?
I heard that 15 busses are still sitting in New Jeresy at the prep sit.
On November 4, 1951, PTC started new bus route XB, running from
Broad and Spruce to City Line Avenue and Neill Drive. This new
bus route, which runs through Fairmount Park, operated from the
Haverford bus garage and used postwar Twins and Macks. In 1960
route XB was combined with Route 38, a former subway-suface car
line, and was rerouted via either Powelton Village/Mantua or the
Schuylkill Expressway.
During 1960, Public Service received all 120 of its first air-
conditioned GM fishbowl buses in the P700-819 series. Their
original assignments were:
P700-46 Bergen County (Routes 122, 124, 165, 166, 167, and 168)
P747-57 Union City (Route 118 Newark-New York Express)
P758-63 16th Avenue, Newark (Routes 130 and 133)
P764-71 Market Street, Paterson (Routes 191 and 192)
P772-99 Central Division (Routes 62, 107, 119, 119A, 134, 135, 139)
P800-19 Southern Division and Race Street, Philadelphia
(Routes 27, 47, 51, 61, 101, 103, 105, 107, 111, 113, 115)
On many bus poles in Philadelphia, you will find a sign with the routes that stop there.
On a number of those signs, you will see routes numbered 400+.
They aren't in use now, so what were they for?
Doesn't NJT use 400 series for service to/from SOuth Jersey?
Bob W care to help!
Actually, New Jersey Transit Bus Operations, Southern Division,
the 400-series route numbers are used on local routes to and from
Philadelphia.
It was 30 years ago when Public Service's last group of deluxe
buses and only the second group to be air-conditioned (500-39A)
entered service with 500-09A to Maple Shade, 510-29A to Riverside
and Turnersville, and 530-39A to Montgomery Street, Jersey City.
Duriing the fall of 1947, PTC started the new 87 bus from a new
veterans' housing project called Northeast Village to the PRR's
Torresdale station, This new bus route connects with the Somerton
and Langhorne divisions of bus route B-Roosevelt Boulevard and
trolley route 66-upper Frankford Avenue.
In 1959, new bus route 4 began operation from Broad and Snyder to
the new Food Distribution Center, operating only from 7:30 PM
Sunday to 4:30 PM Friday.
For most of the history of NYC buses, the side destination sign was located just to the left of the front door near the roof.
Then a few years ago, they decided to but the sign lower, at the bottom of the first side window. Even though that obstructed the view for people inside the bus it was better for passengers on the street who could see the signs closer to their eyes.
Now a bunch of new Orions with cushioned seats have hit the M104 bus on Broadway in Manhattan. And their side destination signs are back near the roof.
Any explainations? Any official words on the switch back to destination signs near the roof? I believe the new no-step-up buses are also going with side destination signs near the roof.
Reggie
nh153@mail.com
Multiple problems, really. The view of the driver was obstructed somewhat, people would bang their heads on them, and most of all, idiots would stuff their garbage between the sign and the window.
-Hank
I think you also must look back to the fishbowls, where there was a side destination sign adjacent to the rear door. It was up above the main window. Then there were the "bat wing" buses, where side signs were huge and mounted outside the bus body.
I remember, when the 9000 series Flxibles arrived, they had a full width curtain destination sign in the location you describe. I also remember that the drivers never paid much attention to these signs and when spares were needed for the front signs, the side ones were pulled, never to be replaced.
I might have missed something. Why are buses from other depots running there? I have seen UP,QV,Westside,Jamaica. Why are CNG buses being fuled at Command?
CNG tank blew up there, a lot of their buses are CNG so they need some extra buses.
Peace Out
-Clayton
CNG tank blew up????? Jackie Gleason Depot have problem with CNG because of leaks & i never heard CNG tank blew up. Most of CNG Orion buses were out of service. Ask Rober@Gleason he know what is going on at Jackie Gleason Depot.
old cng station was being dismantled by non union labor when a minor explosion occurred. they also had problems with leaks at the new fuel station per operator on b63. the former occurred as a result of nyct trying to save money.
Thanks for the post ! The filling station for this depot is right outside my door, fortunately I have a second exit to the street.
So you can assume correctly that my interest in these kinds of incidents is personal as well as professional.
Mr t__:^)
the operator that told me this said a major explosion there would level 10 blocks of sunset park. since you work for a dot co i assume they are smarter than nyct in dealing with cng.
An explosion would NOT level 10 blocks of Sunset Park. It would definately break windows for a few miles around, and anything within about 500' would be destroyed. But as long as there's a safety valve in the system that cuts off the gas flow in case of a rapid loss of pressure, there's not much to worry about.
-HAnk
The system here is "state of the art", at least that's what they've told us. We been for a lot of training on it's operation. There is a special alarm system, when it goes off I'm out the door (that's only happened once & it was a test that they forgot to tell everyone about)
I don't feel too nervious about it being right outside, but I'm ready to bolt out the door just the same.
Explosions on a bus I think is a very remote event. There too a lot of traning & extra safety checks occur as part of regular maint.
Mr t__:^)
Thank you for thinking of me. The store is that the compresser from the old fueling station compresser blow up. There was no CNG exploded. The old tank was not full of CNG at the time this happen. The new station does not have tanks hooked up to them. They all come right off Brooklyn Union Gas Mains. BU has someone there at all time when the station is being used so they can watch the system for now. The station are only on from 6PM to all the busses are in and fuel. This will change when it is OK to do so. Two out of three of the new station are open.The other still has a leak in it and they might have to be torn up and replace the line to it. The Orian CNG are still mostly out of serive and are at a yard on 4th ave Brooklyn. There are also about 15 New Flyer are still sitting in New Jerey untill the problem is salved. Time will only tell the rest. I Hope this help out.
what id like to know is how nyct has managed to keep this out of the news all this time?
Two Words "Pay Off"
Have obtained a little more input from a maint. friend on this:
Apparently, "explosion" is not the issue at all. They were working on the old compressor trying to increase it's output as a temporary mesure until the new facility is brought on line. Somehow the heads got too much pressure while they were doing a test. The system shut down with NO injuyies or property damage.
I get the feeling that CNG is thought of in a similar manner as Nucular power, i.e. anything that happens immediately makes some of you folks think the world is comming to an end. From what I've read and been told CNG isn't any more explosive then deisel ! Now, that doesn't mean that this employee isn't curious about every "incident" that I become aware of, but so far each one has turned out to be a non event, e.g. the one at LI Bus was in a CNG, but had nothing to do with the CNG system & the on-board fire extinguishers put out the fire automatically ... as they're designed to do.
Disclaimer: I'm not a official spokesperson for the CNG industry, NYCDOT or even my company, just a subway buff who works for a bus co.
Mr t__:^)
Are the low floor buses still going to Command for fueling? Or are the two bays enough for them? Are the CNG Orions still out of service?.........Mark
In the trolley era, the B69 ran along Prospect Park in both directions, on its own ROW. In the bus era, it runs up 8th Avenue and down Prospect Park West. This discourages people from using it to/from the park, and forces buses (and other vehicles) down narrow 15th Street and backed-up Union Street. I think Prospect Park West and 8th Avenue should be made two-way streets.
Are there any other routes where one-way streets really mess up bus service?
The B11 that runs on 49th and 50th street. Both are one way with one passable lane. This is the only line that I know that you don't have to call in a detore. The people one this line do not care were they double park there cars. I do not want to be on this line behind a garbage truck of school bus.
I remember years ago in the Bronx after the Third Ave El service was discontinued - Third Ave became one-way (northbound) and Washington Ave (2 blocks west) was already one-way (southbound). The (then new) BX-55X service made express stops (now called Limiteds of course) and the BX-29 (now BX-15) made all stops along Third and Washington Aves. They seemed to have excellent running times until Third Ave went back to being a two-way street and southbound BX-55 and BX-15 buses were rerouted to Third Ave.
Those were the good days when the new BX-55X service used a solid fleet of brand new GM T6H-5309A's.
Wayne
It was 33 years ago that Fifth and Madison Avenues were converted
into one-way streets to relieve traffic congestion in midtown
Manhattan (Fifth south, Madison north). As a result, bus routes
M1, M2, M2A, M3, M4, M5, and M15 (now Q32) now used Fifth Avenue
south and Madison Avenue north, although the M5 used Sixth Avenue
north instead of Madison.
During the fall of 1950, PTC bus route H, operating from Broad and
Erie to Temple Stadium via Greene Street and Washington Lane, was
rerouted via McCallum Street, Mt. Pleasant and Wadsworth Avenues,
and was extended to Cheltenham and Ogontz Avenues to connect with
PCC Route 6 and bus Route C. In addition, bus route H-1, running
from Germantown to West Oak Lane via Washington Lane and 74th Ave.,
was extended via Penrose Avenue and Ashbourne Road to the Elkins
Park Station of the Reading Railroad to connect with bus routes
55 and XA. That extension required suburban zone fares, but it
ended on July 4, 1953 because of low ridership. Also, bus route 78
was extended via Lansdowne and Yeadon to 52nd Street and Baltimore
Ave. to connect with trolley routes 34, 46, and 70, and bus route G.
Separate ROW make transit more effective. Can they use the trolley ROW for bus ways or did they use it make places for more cars to sit in traffic?
When Philadelphia placed buses on Chestnut and Walnut Streets in
1956, the buses were restricted to the right-hand traffic lanes.
However, these lanes had been blocked by delivery trucks, taxicabs,
and automobiles making right turn lanes. The City of Brotherly
Love considered moving the buses to Market Street, which is wider,
and considered restoration of Route 42 to rail operation, with
bus route D and the proposed Mid-City Loop bus using Chestnut-
Walnut. PCC route 13 should remain in the trolley subway. Route
42 PCC's will use Market Street and a new trolley route, presumably
Route 49, will begin operation.
did anyone see the story on Channel 4 of oil and fuel leaks contaminating the ground water at depots? comments?
It was for Jamaica Depot. A similiar situation happened at Flatbush a while ago.
Leaks from vehicles are usually small and not a problem. Storage tanks can cause a problem if they leak a long time
NY does not use ground water for drinking water though do they? It thought it all came from upstate
Where in my post did i say the leaks were from the bus. Of course it leaked from the storage tanks which have been or are being replaced in every depot. Im sure there are plenty of law suits against the MTA.
All the posts said was leaks. It was not specific and I did not see the story on Ch 4
The Clean Water Act also covers runoff from bus leaks, fuel spills on the surface, anifreeze and steam cleaning run off. I was not sure what the source was.
Airports and transportation facilities need to have a run off plan.
Saw 739 this morning on the LIE approaching the tunnel, running on the QM12. It's been painted in the new style 'lighting' scheme with Jamaica Bus/Liberty Lines type numbers. Is this Triboro's new livery?
657 is like that too. Buses 719 and 738 have returned to cTc from Command Yard in Brooklyn.
MM2000
I'm suprised thowe old ones are getting the paintjob. I figured they would be scrapped when replacements come in. After all they are almost 14 years old.
I never been on an express bus but are passengers allowed to stand on an express bus? Especially the ones that go to SI?
B46M Limited
According to a TA Employee quoted in the SI Advance, yes, as long as none are standing forward of the white line. Thing is, there isn't much room to stand on the bus anyway, and there isn't much of a handhold.
-Hank
according to nyct insiders guide no standees. this is according to 1998 and 1999 editions. nyct flouts this everyday by ordering bus drivers to stop even if bus has no seats. as hank says there is no grabrails on buses and they were not meant for standees. in an accident nyct would hace hell to pay.
If I pay my fare and there are no seats left, then will I get a special ticket to board another bus or I just have to deal with the consequences??
B46M Limited
No tickets, not even a transfer. The x-bus fareboxes are not set up to issue transfers (the feature is disabled when the farebox is set to accept the $3 fare)
-Hank
I guess I would have to stand for a couple of hours......
B46M Limited
Since this is the case. Why does it say on the bus maps that you can transfer between routes downtown at the stop right before you hit the tunnel? Is this a MetroCard only xfer?
Thanks in advance & Peace!
DaShawn
All X-bus transfers (involving TA buses, at least) are metrocard-only. They don't accept magstripe transfers, either.
-Hank
Hank, Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the "Transfer" you're talking about (via MetroCard) are "Step-Ups", i.e. you'll pay 1.50 to transfer from a local to an express. The reverse is free since you've already paid the 3.00.
Mr t__:^)
Yes. I've also done the SI x-bus to Liberty Lines x-fer with a pay card. Of course, now I have an X-bus unlimited....which expires tomorrow. BRB, gotta run to GCT.
-Hank
At least on our lines the drivers carry some of those old long paper Transfers. Their purpose is to permit folks to transfer between our bus lines (they meet at several points then go their seperate ways).
So, I guess as a standee you could ask the driver for one then exit & wait for the next bus. I would suggest you ask the driver about this because you'll have less problems with the next bus if you do it at a stop that it typically occurs at (i.e. you don't want to have to convince the next driver that you're really NOT trying to get a free ride).
Disclaimer: I don't work in the Transportation department, so this isn't an OFFICIAL announcement.
Mr t__:^)
Saw 464 and 483 on Q104 today. Also I noticed on MCI 954 under the decalsin the front a small black box. Is that box like the one on MTA bus 8292?
Re: 464, that was quick, I only put the farebox in her on Tuesday !
Mr t__:^)
Today, I saw 430 on Q104. Anybody knows what the local CNG roster is gonna consist of? (390-499)?
MM2000
#430 was orig. headed for Triboro. The series for QSC was going to be #453 thru 499. How many others are we going to get ... that's not decided yet. I think you can understand that the "Cooper" companies want & need some new equipment too. Meanwhile the new coaches are rolling off the assembly line & we can put them into service (you've got to do that because the waranty clock is running).
Mr t__:^)
For the past couple of months I have been playing with a idea of combineing various Manhatten Bus routes to fit more into a Grid System, somethging like LA did in the mid 70s, so most busses will go north and south, and east and west. As I see it now, the route structure of most of the bus lines originated back in the 30s and 40s when we had various different companies in Manhatten, ex NYCOmnibus. FAC, NYTA, 3rd Ave/Surface etc. So every couple of days I am going to throw out a change to see what you folks think.
M1-5 No changes, except the M5 should continue on Riverside from 135thg to 145th. Here is the big one, Combine the 6, 104 and 100 into one line, as follows, From South Ferry regular route to 59th, then 59th, Broadway all the way up to the Marble Hill Station. Return regular Rt to 59th, 59th to 7th, then regular route. Eliminate 100 entirely, add more busses on Amsterdam north of 125th(another project)Also eliminate 104. Ad new 42nd St Route Via 42nd St, 7th Ave, to 33rd St, Ret via 33rd, 8th, 42nd to Terminal Maybe #43. Finally Penn Station and Grand Central can have a one bus connection.
Let me know what you think. I have about 4-5 more changes that I will bring up in a couple of days
The proposals you make are good on paper but you are creating very long runs and they will not opearate that way.
Look at the M100 which was made shorter due to the opearting problems when the route ran from 125 th Street to the City Line,
You currently have the problem with the M-10 which is too long and in Brooklyn with the B-82 (The old B5 and B 50 Combined route.) Longer
does not necessary mean better)
The TA even acknowledged that when it created the M-103 from the M-101 and M-102 lines.
When a route is too long congestion at one end can destroy the routes service at the other end.
Some Possible route changes:
M1 between W. 147th Street and E. 8th St and a new route between Grand Central and South Ferry replacing the current M1 South Ferry service.
I forgot to add, that only the portion of the route that operates 24 hours a day is the 104, that the busses run a shorten route between Times Square and 125th St. Not all busses will run the entire route, I noticed weekdays the 6 and 100 headway is 10 minutes, and the 104 is 5, some will run between Times Sq and 125th St.
Another situation in Manhattan is to combine bus routes M15 and
M21 into a through route from 126th Street to Van Dam and Varick,
with service to Park Row replaced by an extension of the M5 and
service to South Ferry replaced by an extension of the M14 Avenue
A route. The M14 should also be extended to Javits Center.
the object of my changes is to run busses in a grid service, North and South and east and west. with most places only 1 transfer at most. The next change would be the M 11, to extend it all the way to 193rd St, replacing the 101 in that portion. Now for the 3rd and Lex 101-103 lines. 102-Same Routeing Lower Terminal moved to Park Row renumbered M-12 103-Same Routing Just renumber M-13 101-Combine with M-18 via 116th St 57-Eliminate service on West End Ave. New Service on 11th and 12th Aves between 72nd St & Bdwy to 1`4th St & 8th Ave Stations to Service Javits Center(M-17) BX-7 Cut back Southern Terminal to 207th St & Bdwy due to Thru M-6 Service. M60-Run on 125th St to Bdway rather then Amsterdam, then Bdwy to 105th St BX 15- Terminate at Metro North Station
while visiting nathans coney island today on stillwell ave i noticed former transit bus 3188 sitting on the street in what looked to be an abandoned condition. anybody have any info on this?
I believe it now belongs to NYPD.
David
[while visiting nathans coney island today on stillwell ave i noticed former transit bus 3188 sitting on the street in what looked to be an abandoned condition. anybody have any info on this?]
it may but the least they could do is paint it.
On October 5, 1958, Philadelphia Transportation Company closed
Cumberland as a bus garage and converted it to a truck garage.
Bus route C was divided between Luzerne and Southern Deports,
Route 54 was transferred to Allegheny, and Routes 6 (bus), H,
and XH were transferred to Germantown. Yet Luzerne was still
jammed with buses.
On November 3, 1958, Public Service started bus route 9A, which
operated express from Trenton to Philadelphia via US 130 and a
new residential community of Levittown, New Jersey (renamed
Willingboro in 1964).
On December 13, 1958, Public Service rerouted bus route 130-
Newark to Asbury Park via Holmdel and Lincroft.
What is the procedure in which buses are removed from service?
Are they sent to the scrapyard after sitting in the depot for a while?
Are they sent directly to the scrapyard after finishing their final passenger run?
How is it decided (from a group of buses that are being replace, like the 1982, and 1983 buses) which exact buses will be removed and which will stay in service, or (in the case of 1981 and 82 buses) which ones will be overhauled?
Thanks.
I would guess they start with maintenance records as a way of deciding what stays and waht goes
But you have to remember that the 3100-series fishbowl buses bought
by Fifth Avenue Coach and Surface Transit in 1960 were the very
first new-look buses ever to be retired by the NYCTA in 1973. None
were saved.
Avenue B and East Broadway continued to operate with Mack buses
until 1976, when new fishbowl buses replaced them. In 1952, that
company had once planned to take over the Manhattan bus routes
from the old Board of Transportation.
what ever happened to av b / e bwy's buses after they went
out of business in 1980? did ta or oa get them? if so,how were
they numbered?
ANDY/ULMER PK
I have some information about the disposition of the Ave B's fleet in 1980. It comes from an article in Motor Coach Today, April-June 1998. According to the article the last fishbowls purchased by Ave B were numbered 606-625, were 35 footers and they were sold Miami Valley Regional Transit (Dayton Ohio). The 40 footers #626-635 were sold to ATE ( I don't know what that stands for ). Then it says that all remaining Flxibles and used buses still on the roster were scrapped.
I sort of remember that when the line was taken over by the city, they had some buses there that seemed different from the regular TA fleet.
Anyway, the article further mentioned that right before Ave. B when bankrupt, MABSTOA ordered 13 Flxible 40 ft buses that they were going to lease to Ave B. Ave B went bankrupt before they arrrived, and the buses were absorbed into MABSTOA fleet.
According to the article Motor Coach Age covered the history and ending of Ave B in their Oct 68 and March 80 issues. These issues are no longer available from the Motor Bus Society. Does anyone have a copy of them out there??
ATE is a managment companay based in Cincinnati, Ohio- They run many transit systems for the local company under contract. One example is Memphis, Tennessee. Thery run others but I dont know how many others they run.
Their gain is profit and the city (or agency) gets a piece of the pie!
ps- check out my memphis-transit forum on Deja.com
The Grumman Flxible 870's (53096-8-1) were assigned to the SI for express service.
Wayne
That's about right. You also look at the milage, so the oldest coach with the highest milage would be the first canidate, BUT sometimes a newer coach has more maint. problems, so it might be first to go.
Where do they go ... "DOT" trys to sell them first. In the current environment (lots for buyers to choose from) a lot will get scrapped.
Mr t__:^)
nyct sells a lot for junk to a place called nimco scredding in newark new jersey. they are towed there by an outfit known as rts. maybe they will be called orion towing soon. at nimco the buses are scredded just like the watergate tapes.
I remember Nimco Bus scrapping a bunch of Green Lines, Steinway and QTC buses, Jamaica, etc. QTC used to run some suburban fishbowls, that drove with a stick shift. Got some decent signs out of that lot.
This would have been 1987. They were scrapping 7000-series Flxibles by then, but the TA always pulled out the signs first.
For the first time in like a year they actually have bus schedules in PDF format on the NYCT website.
It's just a limited number of routes for each borough now. I imagine more will be added.
Another thing i noticed is that the new printed schedules with the low floor bus on front have no route maps in them\. Whats the point of that???
at yukon several bus drivers have been pulled out of service in the middle of trips with passengers on board by supts riding under the guise of paying customers. they have been charged with speeding running red lights discharging pass. not in bus stops. i do not condone reckless driving but know these drivers and they claim innocence. is this system wide? i would appreciate replies on this.
Of course the drivers are going to claim innocence. No matter what they get written up for, regardless of what transit property they work for, they claim the supervisors are harassing them for writing them up for work rule/safety violations. It happens out here on the west coast where I work all the time. Drivers will be dead wrong and still say the supervisor picked on them.
Trouble is, the supervisors know who the driver are that are going to make the most noise when they are written up, so of course THEY are the ones who are watched. They never bother the drivers that admit to making a mistake and violating a work rule and accepting the writeup like an adult.
I guess it is just human nature to deny responsibility for ones' actions. Very few people nowadays will ever say "Yeah, I screwed up, so I'll take the punishment/pay the penalty"
On October 23, 1975, a suspicious fire, apparently caused by human
failure, destroyed 60 SEPTA trolleys and the oldest part of Woodland
Depot, Southwest Philadelphia.
In June, 1950, a Chicago court, investigating the crash involving
PCC trolley 7078 with a gas truck, ruled that the PCC cars were
declared unsafe and that operating rules involving motorman and
conductor should be revised. The motorman had several accidents,
of which some weren't his fault. Chicago city officials ordered
gasoline deliveries during busy daytime periods should be stopped.
A flooded underpass on State Street south of 63rd and a poor sewage
system were blamed for the cause of the crash. At the same time,
Philadelphia lost its first PCC car, 2603, to retirement after it
was burned inside bay 5 at Callowhill Depot.
In October, 1979, 4 SEPTA Media Local trains collided with each
other in West Philadelphia, sending 442 commuters to hosptals.
The first train suffered brake trouble, but the 3 following trains
keyed by red signals leading to the collision. At the same time,
SEPTA was forced to lease 50 surplus buses from Washington to
relieve a shortage of bus equipment. The leased DC buses did not
run in center city and operated instead from Germantown garage.
these two posts do not address the issue of taking an operator out of service with passengers on board for alleged safety violations. this is being done on express buses and commuters are not appreciating being put off. if quill was alive you can bet nothing would move if they tried this.
While I agree that it may be an inconvience to put customers out of their way for certain violations I know of two that were warranted. One occassion a Operator was observed taking a dollar bill as payment from a out of towner and a operator who picked up her cell phone while operating in customer service. The other stuff like red lights and speeding should wait till the end of the line.
It is contract time.
In 1950, PTC bus route S, which originally ran from the Broad and
Olney subway terminus to Mt. Pleasant Avenue and McCallum Street in
Mt. Airy, was rerouted east of Chew Avenue at Phil-Elena Street and
was extended through Stenton, West Oak Lane, and Cedarbrook to a
new terminus at Cheltenham and Willow Grove Avenues. In 1959, the
route was extended west to Fraser Road and Harston Lane, Paper Mill
Glen, after Cheltenham Avenue was widened. In 1960, the route was
further extended east to Rising Sun Avenue and Knorr Street, Lawn-
dale, and eventually to Fox Chase. The route was redesignated
Route 18 on June 16, 1985.
I don't condone reckless driving at all. But is this just another dose of intimidation by mang't? Are drivers who report more defects than others being ridden more often? If the sup't has the guts to take an operator out of service in mid trip, than that same sup't ought to take over the operation of that bus to get those customers to their destination. While he's at it, he ought to do the balance of that operators' run that day. This way, he can get first hand knowledge of working conditions and keep to mostly unattainable schedules due to heavy traffic conditions thru-out the city. Too many TA sup'ts forget where they came from, and many didn't even come from there in the first place!
there was a near mutiny out here when a driver was taken out of service in mid trip. express customers develop a friendship and reliability on drivers they see every day. some of these drivers may rush to get these customers to work. i am waiting to see local 726 response to this.
To All Brothers & Sisters of 726-1056 and Local 100. It is our time to play the TA game. Slow down take your time. Our passengers are not looking for our jerk superintendents or dispatchers but for us the operators. The morons who are superintendents do not have a clue as to what is going on. They cowtow to their bosses who are bigger jerks then they are. Let the people break their balls. Remember the TA needs us to make their business happen. Understand we are the best. It is about time we pass the bullcrap back to our supervisors. It is time we watch out for one another instead of just caring about ourselves
Good Afternoon,,
Just received it,today ,Same Format,,Updated
Steve
FDNY
Why does the new Orions have a grate on the curb side engine access panel? The older orions don't have that? Also what is a wastegated turbocharger and what is the difference between that and a regular turbo? How does it make the engine sound different?
When the B5 and the B50 were combined to form the B82 service quality decreased enough to have the Daily News rate it the worst route in Brooklyn.
When the M101 and the M102 southern terminus was changed to 6th Street and the "new" M103 was created to cover the old route to City Hall, three bad bus routes replaced two.
When the M10 split route proposal was voted down recently, the idea of splitting routes was shot down, although the only poor planning was where the new split M10 would terminate.
When I was a rookie in Amsterdam many, many moons ago, someone told me about the plan to combine the M6 and M7 routes. Upon seeing my horrified reaction, he said, "Don't worry, they've been planning this since 1947."
Since the original planning of these bus routes over half a century ago, the daily city population, people and vehicles, has more than doubled.
Since this forum is composed of passengers that like buses and transit workers that like buses, I post this question:
What would make buses run more effectively?
A- More buses.
B- Completely different routing.
C- Same routing but with more scheduled short turns.
D- Increased supervision.
E- A small nuclear device.
F- Other (your solution).
to make the b82 run better, i would suggest it this way:
have all runs come from ulmer park depot (it works well with the b6)
have special trips operate during am and pm rush hours from Starret City to the Rockaway Parkway train station.
have extra buses start at South Shore high school during afternoon school trips.
the trips to the train station and from South Shore should come from ENY.
the ta never knows when to leave well enough alone.
i drove the B5 10 years ago with a 6 minute headway.the B50
had an 8 to 10 minute headway.i think things ran just fine then.
the ta has a nasty little habit of making ulmer park lines longer.
( does anyone out there remember the B21,B34,and the old,shorter
routes for the B1 and B4? these 4 lines were combined about 20
years ago,creating 2 very messy lines with so many turns and
obstacles that it's a miracle any bus makes it to the end of the
line during the day.i've been operating a bus for some 17 years
and it has been my experience that shorter lines work better in
most cases.for some reason,the ta seems to think otherwise.
ANDY/ULMER PK
the change occured in 1982. i remember how it ran:
b1-25th avenue/86th street to Oriental blvd-mackenzie st (UP)
B3-25th Avenue/86th Street to e 74th St/Av X or E 71st/Av u or Flatbush Avenue-Kings plaza. (FLA)
B4-25th Avenue/Harway Avenue to 77th Street/Narrows Avenue(UP)
B21-Voorhies Avenue/Knapp Street to Oriental Blvd/Mackenzie St(UP)
B34-25th Avenue/Harway Avenue to Bay Ridge Avenue/Shore Road.
And heres a rumor i heard
b1-from Oriental Blvd/Mackenzie Street to 86th Street-3rd Avenue.
b64-Coney Island/Stillwell Avenue to Bay Ridge Avenue-Shore Road.
the new B1 line would be called b86, i do remember seeing a sign like that once.
why didnt it happen?
to be exact the change occurred nov 12 1978. b34 and 21 were discontinued and b1 b4 and b36 lines were rerouted. and i still remember riding mack 6000s to kingsborough cc on b1 and 21.
the idea for thru service on 86 st (B86),seems to have been
put on a self for now.i remember participating in a mail-in survey
in 1992 from operations planning.a number of rerouting plans for
southwest brooklyn lines were proposed at the time,but nothing
really came of it.i made a number of proposals myself.here are
some of them;
bring back the old B4--25 av to narrows av via bay ridge pkwy
make the B74 a real bus line--run it from seagate via neptune av,
loop thru stillwell station,back to neptune right thru emmons av,
loop thru sheepshead bay station,shore pkwy to knapp st and
finally on to a terminal at ave u/gerritson. pretty efficent
line,wouldn't you say?
i would have combined the B5 with the B7 in this way;
start at cropsey/canal via kings hwy to e98 st/rutland rd station
reroute the B78 to pick up the saratoga/hopkinson portion of the B7
i would have left the B50 alone,but with a shorter headway
ANDY/ULMER PK
The B5 and B7 combo was part of the SW Bklyn study except that the new bus line was supposed to terminate at Remsen Av and Kings Hwy. The B78 was going to take over the B7 route to Bed-Stuy........
B46M Limited
The B-1 and B-64 change was held up because of the 1995 Budget Cuts.The TA never got around to making the change.This was told to me
by a high TA planner who still works for them.
The proposed B5-B7-B78 change was to have been as follows:
B5-From Canal/Cropsey to Sutter Ave Station via B5-B7-B78
B7-From Kings Plaza via existing B-78 to Kings Highway/Remsen Ave then via B-7 route to Halsey St/Broadway Station.
A rumor I here is that the B-40 and B-78 are to be combined into one route running from Kings Plaza to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza with the B-45 replacing the B-40 to Pennsylvina/Liberty Ave.
Its a good idea except that I will do the B-65 instead.
The B-82 i here is a horror and that the TA may have to split the routes into 2 again(The B-5 and B-50)
More recovery time at the end of a route. A given bus on a given route may leave its' starting point on time, yet have heavy traffic conditions enroute which would cause it to have a late arrival at the opposite terminal. All well and good. But the return trip leaves late because the bus arrived AFTER the time it was scheduled to make its' return trip! Naturally, the driver wants a breather, a time to stretch his/her legs after the stress filled trip. The bus may never get back onto schedule unless a dispatcher gives it an unscheduled short turn. Lots of routes have a less than 5 minute recovery time. Insufficient. But as far as the schedule makers are concerned, more recovery time = less productivity. But more recovery time will allow the route to have dependable on time performance which will translate into customer satisfaction with the service. Additional recovery time, in the eyes of the TA, will make the operators work day longer since it will require more time (and pay) for the driver for the same amount of work, or cause him/her to do one less trip causing the TA to hire more drivers to do the same amount of work.
Adding recovery works only when buses run late, which they don't always do (really!) When the buses run on time, there can be a goodly number of buses at the terminus waiting their time. TA doesn't like this. The problem is intensified when drivers show up strong. TA really doesn't like this. Thanks for your input!
The TA could add more run time in routs during the AM, middays and PM rush hours. One exp. would be on the B6 from Rockway Station to Gleanwood Rd. and Ralph Ave. They give the B82 12-15 min to get to Flatlands and Ralph but they give the B6 the same time and it has to fight two more turn and one more light to get to the above time point. This is about a two block different in routs but they give the same time dose this make sence to you. Another thing is the running time from CIA on the B6 into the Jouction. They give about 15 min to get though Ave J and then two load up a bus full of cousters at the Jouction. And if by the grace of G-d you can hit the Jouction two min hot the dispature get mad at you for running hot. But by time you live there you could be 5 min late and have coustemer packed in canned fish and the bus leaning on the front rims. The TA sometime put taffic cheeker eather at stop to count heads and bus time or on the bus to do the same thing. I don't even think that they even look at this information to work out the running times.
Out Robert
i remember being on double decker buses in manhattan that ran on the M1 line. I loved being on them, yet i wished i had a picture of those buses. if anyone has one, please send them to me. i would appreciate it very much.
You Can still see them on GrayLine of SF and Grayline of Victoria BC. By the way does the LACMTA still have the Double Decker Busses in ElMonte for the Bus way? and if not when did they get rid of them?
I like those NYCTA double deckers also and was lucky enough to ride them a few times. I heard that they ran on the M1, but I never saw them there. I always found them on the M4 or M5, both of which operated out of the 132nd Street depot. I think I rode D1, D7 and D8.
Wayne
All four of the Leyland double-deckers that NYCTA used went to Grosvenor Bus Lines, the San Francisco Gray Line franchisee. None are still in service in San Francisco except the one that is a mobile ticket office parked at Union Square (Geary & Powell). When they were in service with GLOSF, they still had the two-tone blue interiors and had the "D1" through "D4" fleet number decals on the interiors though GLOSF numbered them 601-604.
The Neoplan N117/3 double deckers at SCRTD haven't been used in fifteen years now. They were stored serviceable, then some went through a rebuild and used for a very short time around 1987-1988. Once their "life expectancy" was up in the early 1990's, they were sold off. Four burned iun an SCRTD yard fire; the other 18 sold. At least three of them went to Chicago Sightseeing Company, where the roofs were removed, making the upper deck open-air; they were running around with the SCRTD striping about three years ago in Chicago.
I Guess Double Decker Busses in the USA just do not make it like they do in Europe and Asia
About 5 of the ex SCRTD/LACMTA NEOPLAN DOUBLE DECKERS now run for Grayline Tours of NEw York and 2 went to NEW YORK APPLE TOURS. One can see them running around in Manhattan. The roofs were removed and engines were retrofitted with DD 6V92 replacing the original Cummins engine.
One of them even has part of its electronic sign still displayed, a 400-series route number, I believe.
The 400 Series numbers of the SCRTD/LACMTA Means it is a Freeway Express Bus that runs into Downtown LA. May maybe a local out of the City which usually they are. 1-99 Local Busses in Downtown LA 100-199 Local Busses run east and west in Los Angeles 200-299 Local Busses North and South 300-399 Limited Stop Bus Lines 400-499 Freeway Busses into Central LA 500-599 Freeway Busses that do not run to Downtown )There is one line that is marked in 500 that runs to Downtown LA) 600-Special Service Busses (Ex Dodger Stadium, Race Track, Hollywood Bowl Service.
Line 495 I believe. El Monte Freeway???
wayne
Sounds right, the double deckers were used on the San Bernardino Busway running East from LA to El Monte Term, then they ran local, except a few got back on the freeway and went as far East east as Pomona, and San Bernardino and Riverside at the time
On Friday night (10/22) near the Pelham Bay Subway station in the Bronx a brand new New York Bus Service bus was spotted.
This new bus looks similar to the older MCI bus, but with a few changes.
The overall shape of the bus appears to have changed. The window frames are also different. The bus was out of service so no lights were on in the passenger section, but the windows also seem to be tinted much darker.
The biggest difference of all was that this bus has front and back digital destination signs. They are the of the new kind, similar to what is found on the New Flyer Articulateds. For some reason, this bus was flashing the "CALL POLICE/CALL 911" sign. It didn't appear to be in any kind of trouble.
I believe that the bus number was 1711. I'm not too sure, since I was driving along side it for less than a minute. It was definitely in the 1700 range.
Maybe it was one those Orion V's. I prefer classics, but I'm pretty much praying that their (and Liberty Lines Express) fleets never get cursed with RTS's.
Wayne
I prefer the Classic also, but I would rather see an RTS rather than an Orion V.
Peace
DaShawn
The call police button is fairly easy for the driver to hit by accident & since there is no indication that it's on INSIDE the bus it's something that the driver has to be mindfull of.
Mr t__:^)
#1711's windows aren't tinted at all from what I seen. It's the Orion V. The same bus that you see on Command, Triboro and Queens Surface except for the fact that it is not CNG. Also, it has no back door, NYBS uses the same blue and red plastic seat coverings, it has a luggage rack and reading lights.
Well boys me and kevin had the pleasure of riding on tonight on the Co-op City Line (#1711) plus we got numerous pics of 1712 and 1713 and a interior shot. This bus was well built, is very fast, and very smooth riding, NO TINTED WINDOWS ON NONE OF THESE. These first four, 1711-1714 are test buses, when the actuals all come there will probably be some NYBS-type changes to them. The only grip I heard from passengers that the seats are too small otherwise the riding public likes these buses!!!
Trevor
I was talking with a suit from NYBS yesterday. I've got the impression that the seats in the back are 2x2, with just a few in the front along to wall so that they can be folded up for a wheel chair ?
Mr t__:^)
The seats near the back wheel wells are not 2x2 because the floor is not raised like in the MCI Classics. There are more forward facing seats on these Orions than in the CNG Orions. Also, a little correction there are 4 Orions at NYBS and 3 are currently in service. 1711-1713. 1714 is getting the fairbox put in and will be in service shortly.
Just saw 1713 outon 5th Ave (and I do mean 'just') on the BxM7A. I thought that ugly vinyl seats were gone for good. I hope to never have to ride that bus when the A/C is out in the summer. Ick.
Anyhow, I say 161? (MCI Classic) earlier today, and it has an ad for 'Cop Shot' on the ROOF. Another little detail I noticed is that NYBS buses have a solid piece of bodywork on the 'wedge' over the rear, where all the other Classics I have observed (Command, Liberty Lines) have a grille. In fact, most of the buses that passed by seemed to have a grille over the top rear of the bus, except for NYBS Classics. What're they covering up?
Easy to see the tops of buses from the boss' window over 5th Ave.
-Hank
-Hank
An ad for Cop Shot on the roof... mabye it used to be a side wall, they reamnufactured or overhauled it, took the wall off the side, didn't take the ad off, and covered the windows and used it as a roof mabye?
Much too rediculous a scenario. Most likely, they realized that many office workers look down from their windows at the street, and capitalized on the idea.
-Hank
I agree the seats can be torture at first when the A/C is on especially if you're wearing shorts. This is the only thing I'd change about NYBS buses. I always enjoy riding their buses and I think their fleet (and Liberty Lines express) are easily the most well-maintained buses in the city. The solid bodywork that you're speaking of may be the "cap" for the A/C unit similar to the one they put on the fishbowls.
Wayne
New York Bus Service,s new buses are Orion buses numbered in the
1700-series. I saw 1712 on Madison Avenue while I was riding the
Q32 earlier tonight.
With the arrival of new equipment, it seems like the handwriting is on the wall for those great old Fishbowls at NYBS.
Does anyone know what NYBS plans to do with their Fishbowls? How long will they hold on to them?
Yeah - I think you may be right though I wish it wasn't so. I just don't think there's any bus worthy of replacing those GM of Canada fishbowls. However I am breathing a bit easier since it looks like they won't get any RTS's.
Wayne
The last ones were sold to anybody and for top dollar. I am surprised that they are not getting more classics in.
The reason for that is because the Classic is no longer produced by NovaBus. It is a shame though, It is a great bus. I guess due to older technology being used for that unit and the newer LFS becoming more popular they stopped producing the Classic to focus on the LFS. The last new Classics were delivered to PATransit in Pittsburgh, also RTR Transit upstate New York. Maybe if their is a greater demand for the Classic it would still be in production or reintroduced.
Peace
DaShawn
I spoke to the driver of 1711 last week and he said the fishbowls arent going anywhere just yet. NYBS is testing the 4 new Orions. They may or may not get more Orions. He also said the fishbowls are running great. I would love to buy one of them when NYBS decides to sell them.
Saw 3044 on the QM24 today but she looks pretty bad. She had her left front side replaced (near left front tire)and scratchitti on the windows. 3003 has a replacement part under the driver.
To be honest, I think this is what the cTc orions are gonna get for putting them on the local lines. I rode 3023 on Q18 on Friday and 1 window is scratched in the right rear.
MM2000
Regarding putting express buses into local service, does DOT regulate this in anyway? I wonder why their customers don't voice any concerns when they are on circa 1986 RTS's for express bus runs. I suppose this is part of being part of the Cooper family, since you won't find a GBL coach without some sort of scratchitti/grafitti.
DOT decided not to buy the same type of coach that the TA bought for it's express routes.
Mr t__:^)
The only Green Buses without any scratchitti are MCI'S 701-704 and 717-718. All the other buses that are used on the Express Routes have some type of scratchitti on them. But how weird was this: On Friday morning, I saw QS bus 216 on the QM4?! That bus has a lot of scratchitti cause it has been around since 1985.
MM2000
Actually, scatchitti is a relatively recent phenomenon, (say, late 1991 or so). Don't imply that the windows were never replaced since 1985!
-Hank
To be perfectly honest, I think the companies buying Orion equipment was a huge mistake by the DOT. I was on the Q60 this morning and the 2 drivers that usually have 5500s had 1153 and 631. My friend told me that many of the 5500s were still in the shop for maintenance. But for you Orion and orange destination sign fans, I did see 5503 on the QM15. And most of the destiantion signs on the 5500s do not work. Here are just a few that I could name:
5501(but talking system works), 5504, 5506, 5509, 5511-5512, 5514, 5516-5517, 5519, 5521, 5523, 5535-5537, 5539, 5543
To continue, the Orions are getting "holes" in them. Before 662 came to CS, it had a crater-sized hole on the right side. QS 550 is getting a hole in the left rear. GL 5505 tailpipe looks depressed. It is pointed downward instead of up. QS 701 has no tailpipe. The only Orions that I can say that are going to hold up pretty well is the MTA 6000-6349 series, but then again they're not even a year old yet. Wait a year or 2 and these buses will be in the same fate as the others.
MM2000
you are right. theses buses are built rather shabbily. as far as nyct these orions just went into service. cracks and holes are the norm for orions. however pataki pushes this bus probably due to political reasons.
I was too young to remember the Grumman 870 debacle, but was that purchase also motivated by political pressure? Cry all you want RTS detractors, but you do have to admit that RTS could very well stand for Really Tough Series, though my understanding is that the Orions do stop better.
HEY HEY HEY!!! DO NOT PUT DOWN ORIONS! ORIONS ARE VERY GOOD BUSES FROM A DRIVERS POINT OF VIEW. I DRIVE THEM EVERY DAY AND THEY HANDLE VERY WELL. ORIONS HAVE MANY SAFETY FEATURES THAT IS NECESSARY FOR NEW YORK CITY'S CRAZY STREETS.
Don't SHOUT we can here you just fine if you talk in a normal voice.
Mr t__:^)
But they are not built very sturdy! These buses are not the best and a perfect example is the 1993 Orions. CRAPY! The chasis on these units had to be reinforced once they go through their 3 year upgrade and this is why they are always up at 207 Street shops. The following units after that are built a little better, but they are not ideal for New York City streets. The RTS and New Flyers as well as the MCI's and GM Fishbowls are a far superior buses compared to the Orion.
Peace
DaShawn
Can anyone speak to the experience that LI Bus is having, i.e. they had Orions for a few years now ?
Maybe Orion is making a better product now, lets all hope.
Mr t__:^)
Thurston, I got on a Q102 last night at the subway stop on Roosevelt Island. Forgot to catch the number, but this thing was brand-spanking new. Driver said that it was a CNG bus, too.
Found a great gimmick. Used my Metrocard and was able to take the short ride up Main Street to my mom's building for free. The New Flyers they have running over there charge $.25.
It was probally one of the 400s, i.e. hard seat version. Mr t__:^)
Im going to take a ride on the NYBS Orion tonight and leave feedback on how she performs. I do feel that the Orion is making a better product now but not a great product. BTW does anyone know why the DOT Orions were not ordered with LED destination signs? Also, not to start any arguements but i read a post that the DOT was testing orange LED destination signs on Command Orion 4961. According to a few of my Command sources this was an error in their mass production of buses. Command was going to send it back. But thats not an official statement and i dont care to argue about it so i'll leave it at that. Thanks!
Peace,
KayBee
What about Green Bus 5503? Is that an error too or is that a test bus for the DOT? Saw QS Buses 422 and 453 today on the Q104. The 400 local series has the new led destination signs but I don't think the 500 express do.
About the Orions in General: I'mn not saying that all the Orions are "junk" some are. But like Dashawn said, the 1993 series are junky. Every bus that I'm on in that series, when the bus accelerates, it jolts before it goes faster. This is not good for the transmission.
And so far, I like the NEW CNG'S at QS- especially the seats. The 700 orions there are holding up pretty well, but I can't say the same for the 5500 series at GL. Most of their buses have broken destination signs and seats are slashed severely.
The best series has to be the MCI series. I rode 713 on the Q60 today and that bus runs very good despite the fact that that bus also has severely slashed seats. And about 3 bus seats were on the floor.
I never rode A slow MCI. And the MTA MCI's are awesome too, but like what Kevin said, I'd like to see 1 bus with orange signs. That'd look nice!
MM2000
I was on 464 two night's ago on the QM1. It looks like QSC may have another batch of winner's on their hands. Overall, I have to say the MCI's are quite good. The MCI classics are always a treat to ride on, though finally having ridden 1962 in the TA fleet has spoiled me.
First time I've heard that the Orions are that bad. We have them here in Pittsburgh and they are holding up pretty well. The only griping I've heard from the mechanics are about the wheelchair lifts, some suspension items and the license plate holder that allows the licence plate to rust out. Other than that they seem to like them and they still look pretty decent and they're over five years old now.
But maybe they learned how to do body work after having the 1983 Neoplans we had here that were called Rustoplans by many people and the 1975 Fixables that started to have to be pulled out of service after only a few years due to major rust.
I'm going to look them over a little better my next time out to see if the body has been patched up on them.
RDChilds
Maybe Orion has got it right now because we aren't having near the amount of trouble we use to have with the RTS wheel chair lifts.
Mr t__:^)
Saw this bus on the X68 today with a new paintjob?! I thought that these buses were up for replacement? Also saw 3869 and 3874 with new paintjobs too. Arer these buses gonna be staying around the Queens Depots replacing the 1700 and 1800 series?
MM2000
just over at Crosstown Depot today, saw #9090(looked new, and i know thats from ulmper park) and #4567(love the window design). Will these buses go back in serivce?
Also, i know drivers complain that brooklyn could use another depot. I believe they should use crosstown for these lines. it could help:
B24
B43
B48
B61
4 lines should help plenty(amsterdam only has 4 lines) if this could happen, why doesnt it?
Should have seen my post a few weeks back. I stated that these buses should run out of Crosstown:
B18, B24, B39, B40, B43, B43, B48, B60, B61, Q54, and Q59.
I stated the B40 and B60 because these buses can start their trip at the Bridge and relieve ENY depot. I doubt that Crosstown will open up anytime soon.........
B46M Limited
the cental maintenance facility will be moved to zerega ave sometime in 2000. this will give eny plenty of room for buses. crosstown is a bus painting facility.
There is a new depot open in late Feb early March. The will be somewere on Long Island City part of Brooklyn. The routs that well go there will be must of the Queens routs that run out of Brooklyn Depot. (Exp. Q24, Q56 out of ENY). Also the B61 and B43 might go there.
If Crosstown reopens as a bus depot the following routes will be assigned there:
B18,B24,B39,B43,B48,Q59,B61
These were the routes assigned when Crosstown was closed in 1981.The B-43 replaced the B-62 and the Q-59 was then called the B-59
Yesterday four new busses came into JG. The new bus # are 832,837,847 and 855 (I drove this one from Long Island) . These busses are great on the LIE. I had mind up to about 65mph with out reliving it. I had to get it back down to 55mph so I would not get in trouble with the bus. So I guest that the TA got the new Station up and running the right way.
i spoke to a transporter who brought an orion to yukon. he said the bus was governed at 55mph and that was top speed from oriskany ny. probably transit mechanics will slow your flyers down. beware of transit supts. read my posts on safety and harassment.
The New Flyer D60's are governed to 40MPH but a few actually do 55 and 60 MPH.
Peace
DaShawn
if this is so and the cng fuel station is up and running, why did i see #9102 running on the b61 route yestrday with ulmer park sticker on it?
We did not give back all the busses from other depots. The Orions CNG did not come out of mothball yet. I heard that we might not get them back. They might be sold to Command for uses on the B100 so they can get rid of the rest of there old RTS's. I just heard this so don't quite me on this.
FYI, CNG Orions 595 & 596 are running in JG. I have not heard anything about the TA going to sell any Orions to Command.
I keep track of what is running where on my bus roster. If you have MS Works, and would like a current compy, feel free to e-mail me at the above e-mail address, or check out http://members.aol.com/glenn6398/nycbusroster.html
The web roster is updated periodically.
FYI, CNG Orions 595 & 596 are running in JG. I have not heard anything about the TA going to sell any Orions to Command.
I keep track of what is running where on my bus roster. If you have MS Works, and would like a current compy, feel free to e-mail me at the above e-mail address, or check out http://members.aol.com/glenn6398/nycbusroster.html
The web roster is updated periodically.
also saw #4162 and #4165(from Hudson) running on the b9 and b68(respectively)
4352 is back at College Point storage yard. Dunno if 4351 and 4355 are still at JG.
MM2000
saw 4355 on b11 yesterday ditto for 3933
Heard this one today while riding back from rockaway-116th street. It seems that DOT was at the last stop of the Q35 at Flatbush-Nostrand Avenue checking each bus out and writing them up if they didnt have wheelchair accesibility, working signs or broken parts( i was on bus #248 and the back panel was falling off and the wheelchair didnt work, the driver was complaing the front sign didnt work either and had gotten written up for this).
I always thought Green Bus lines had good buses, what happened? is this because of maitnence of Penninsula where the Q35 comes from or is this all Green line buses?
See the post about the Green Orions and what buses have broken signs.
I know that buses 649, 701-718, 1001, 1003-1006 and 1008-1015 do not have a wheelchair lift. As far as maintenance is concerned, Green Lines gets a poor rating. Over the summer, most of the buses I rode had no a/c including bus 5537. Right now, 5501-5502 are out of service, dunno why. 5501's left rear window you can't look out of. Maybe they're at Atlantic Diesel?! But recently I saw 638 with a new paintjob and she looked nice. 248 is due for a paintjob.
MM2000
NOt only IS the Q35 A HEADACHE, All OF green lines is a headache!!!!
THe Q 35, was a headache goingway back to the 40s Never ran on time, always long waits. Used to take it all the time to go to Reiss Park,
Well if the Ta didn't come up with the bright idea to eliminate bith the B46 and B9 summer service, many of the problems would seem less troublesome .Ai least keep one of them up there Maybe people in the rockaways may have evenually petitioned The Ta to keep it going all year long .
If people remember, there once was a B 32. I think it was, called the Marine Pkwy line that ran from Ave U to the Marine Pkwy Bridge, and to Reiss Pk in the summer, that had some pretty good service. It was mainly meant to service Floyd Bennett Field when it was active
When was this service in operation?
B46M Limited
The entire 50s. I remember it now it was the B-32 MARINE PKWY and ran out of Flatbush. There were 2 busses assigned to the line
The Green Bus Lines Routes (Q21, Q22, Q22A, Q35), which operated out of the Peninsula Garage in the Rockaways, always received the worst buses that the Green Lines had. This has been going on for years. I used to hear people say that the Green Line Buses were in good shape, and I used to wonder what buses they were riding, until I found out about the the GBL's Jamaica Depot. That's is where the "Good" buses are usually stored (recently, some of those "good" buses have been stored at the Peninsula garage, I believe due to modernization of the Jamaica Depot for CNG maintenance. The bulk of those "good" buses are sent from Rockaway right back to the other routes (i.e., Q11, Q10, Q60, etc.).
If anyone has paid close attention, over the years, just about every time the GBL receives new buses, they would keep them at the Jamaica Depot and the Peninsula Depot bus routes would not see these buses for years.
For example, when the first RTS-02 appeared on the scene in 1979, Rockaway did not receive them until 1986.
The GBL acquired their NovaBuses in 1994. Rockaway did not see these buses until this year, five years later.
The only bus routes in Rockaway that would see new buses when the GBL first receives them are the express routes (QM16 and QM17).
It makes entirely no sense that the GBL can have buses for 4 or 5 years before they send it to the Rockaway routes.
With approximately 40 Orions and 35 NovaBuses operated by the GBL, I challenge anyone to go to Rockaway on any day and see how many of these buses you will see in regular services on the Rockaway local runs.
Over the summer, I saw 5517, 5521, 5535 and 5539 parked on B49 Street in Rockaway. Also there were mostly 200s and 600s there:
224, 230, 232, 238, 241, 250-251, 253, 260-262, 264, 266, 282, 284, 602, 611-612, 620, 630-1 (no longer in revenue service) 638, 703, 1163, 1168, 1177, 10001. The very next day, bus 260 was on the Q60. Guess they move buses daily to and from the Rockaway Depot.
FR
according to what i heard by a bus driver (and this is just ar muor by the way), the reason they dont put newer buses on Q21,Q22A,Q22 or Q35 is they would get vandalised. i recently saw 2 green buses on a school trip going into far rockaway with kids opening windows and the windows flying in the air(they didnt fall out, but they looked like they could).
I occasionally see a orion or a novabus on the Q35. I applaud Jamacia bus lines for keeping their buses in mint condition. dont understand why they havent gotten any orions yet. wish Jamaica would run the Q35 line, at least the buses would be in better shape.
Either that or have the TA take over the Q35(run it out of FLA).Jamaica should have the buses out of Jamaica Term(6,9,9a,40,41 and 60)The 7 and 8 and should be x-fered to the TA(run out of ENY)Have the 10 run by Jamaica Bus and the 11 transfered to the city and run out of Fresh Pond as for the other lines 22 and 22a merge run out of Jamaica bus.discontinue the 21 ( just merge it with the 53 already)Have every other 53 run thru Lindenwood .Asfor the Express routes the QM15 and QM23 run out of Jam(ta) they have the buses already.The 16, 17 and 18 run out of Jamaica Bus.I hope these ideas are sound.Thanks Steve
nice idea. her is mine of which depots should get what lines(a driver told me that "Mr. cooper" owns most of these depots, so changing them around might be hard:
Command-BM1,BM2,BM3,BM4,BQM1,B100,Q35.
Green-Q10,Q11,Q21,Q22/Q22A,Q37,Q40,Q41,Q60(add a limited route too)
Triboro-Q18,Q19,Q19A,Q19B,Q23,Q33,Q38,Q45,Q47,Q67,Q69,Q101,Q102,Q103,Q104.
Jamaica-Q6,Q8,Q9,Q53,Q110,Q111,Q112,Q113.
Queens Surface-Q25/Q34,Q65,Q65A,Q66.
Command would run the Q35 better, and Q53 can come from Jamaica. The routes from QS to Triboro would work cause the depot is closer(this would also assume Triboro gets a new depot, but that's another story).
You forgot the Q-72 Junction Blvd Line, which believe it or not back in the 50 s was a TA Route
Also the Q10a and the QBx1 where left out
As well as the Q39.
That's probably true, but isn't there vandalism in all parts of the city. Also if that's the case, maybe they should just have a special set of buses for the school kids, seeing that they have a special set of buses for all of Rockaway. After all, they do run special "School Bus" routes for kids only.
I also agree with you 100% on the idea of Jamaica Buses, Inc. taking over the Q35. In my opinion, the Jamaica Buses are in the best condition of all the private buses Queens.
If not the Jamaica Buses, Inc. taking over the Q35, then the MTA should take over all of the Rockaway routes since Green Bus Lines are so afraid to run their precious new buses out there.
And I was surprised that it was an Orion from CS. Bus is #522-front side and rear- can see it from blocks away. It was on the Q32 today.
MM2000
One of Command's CNG Orions also has the orange signs, though I don't remember the number of it.
4961 command also 8490 nyct
8490 doesn't have the sign anymore. It went back to its original green sign.
MM2000
They probably took the sign from 8490 and put it in this bus. 8490 now has a regular flip dot sign on it. Maybe the TA will test it on an MCI next.
Peace,
KayBee
Command's 4961 and Green's 5503 are test units from a new manufacturer. The test results to date have been very favorable.
The controller on 5503 says: Ballios (or something sounding like that), I guess they are the new manufacturer.
Bailous signs are used a lot in canada, the NYC use is the first time i have heard of them being used in the US.
This bus, just now on the Crosstown M50 had an RTS/GM builder plate on the wall down by the front stepwell, but a TMC builder plate on the front destoination sign bulkhead. The TMC plate said date of manufacture was April 1988--the registration card said the bus was a 1987.
Not being an expert on bus manufacture, this all seemed mixed up. Any RTS mavens out there aqvailable to help out?
Not an expert, but #4833 is part of the first batch of TMC RTS 06 delivered to the NYCTA - and they do have GM on that panel even though TMC is the manufacturer. I guess it was early 1988 by time 4833 came along. I remember around Nov 1987 #4755 was delivered to 146th street and it ran for some weeks before the others (4756-4790) came in.
Wayne
The RTS that came right after the TMC purchase always had the GMC model plate. It's of no consequence, since that piece of plastic bore little information other than 'GM'. On the TMC buses, there were usually TMC stickers over the GM insignia. Eventually, they fell off.
-Hank
MABxSTOA's last fishbowl buses, delivered in March and April, 1973,
were also numbered in the 4800-series. Their original assignments
were as follows:
4800-19 Hudson Garage, lower Manhattan
4820-39, 4860-4919 Kingsbridge Garage, upper Manhattan and Bronx
4840-59 Coliseum Garage, Bronx
In actuality, fishbowl 4833 was part of the Kingsbridge group
which began the Bx55 express bus route that replaced the remaining
portion of the Third Avenue El in the Bronx. In 1979, fishbowls
4823 and 4824 were seen operating out of Ulmer Park Garage,
Brooklyn. Most were eventually sent to various Manhattan garages
in later years.
Yes, you're right I remember them well and they along with the 1966 TDH-5303AC (8000-8202, 8301-8780) were my favorite GM fishbowls - until GM of Canada started producing all those wonderful T8H-5307A, 5308A's.
I was very young when the T6H-5309A's arrived, but I some of the 4800 moved around in the early days and eventually it was:
4800-4812 - Hudson
4813-4832 - Kingsbridge
4833-4859 - Coliseum
4860-4919 - Kingsbridge
Those were some good days when the BX55-X route used only T6H-5309A's. They stayed for years until approx 1983/4. The low 4800's went to West Farms/Walnut and the remaining 4800's and 4900 went to 132nd St and 146th St depots.
Wayne
This group in it`s later days was scattered all around the city
especially in Brooklyn [ Jackie Gleason, Ulmer Park, Flatbush].
Only one member of this group was Blitzed and it was 4800 which became 5511. Sad to say but none from this group were saved.
The first TMC RTS's were delivered to the MTA and they are the only units that were co-produced with GMC and TMC. The shells were trucked from the GM plant in Pontiac, MI to the new plant in Rosewell, NM where TMC did the final assembly. These 300 RTS's were the only ones built that way. The other units after that were fully produced by TMC. This is why these units carry the GMC plaque where the fire extinguisher is kept. An interesting note to add is that with the NovaBus RTS's these buses carry the TMC logo in the same place but the manufacturers plaque above the driver is pure NovaBus. The reason for this is NovaBus purchased the TMC logo along with the purchase of the company.
Peace
DaShawn
yes the 2000 mci bus has arrived at nyct. bus 2042 seen on gowanus. it is operating out of castleton so they should get the first 20.
NYBS has received 5 ORION V diesel buses 1711-1715. 1711 is already in service on the Co-op City line. NYBS will test 1 Orion on each line. One noticeable difference is there is no back door so the wheelchair lift is obviosly in the front of the bus. The seats are red and blue but not as wide as the MCI Classics. The windows are not tinted. However, 1711 has reading lights and luggage racks starting from the first forward facing seat all the way to the back. The exterior of the bus looks beautiful and is painted in the regular read white and blue NYBS paint scheme. Trevor and I will be posting our pictures of 1711 soon on TransiTALK .
Peace,
KayBee
1712 went into service today. DaShawn got a pic today!
TransiTALK has merged together with Kevin & Gary (Kaybee & MCIMAN2000) and DaShawn Pretlow to make one super site!
Check it out, all of our pics are together, close to 500!
http://geocities.com/transitalk/NYCTransit.html
Trevor
Will be posting it,,in a few days
FDNY
It's been a bad couple of weeks for riders on these bus routes in the 7:50 to 8:10 period, leaving from Windsor Terrace. Buses are laying over too long, and showing up 5-10 minutes late two stops into the route. We've had two or three B69s in a row after none for half an hour for a couple of weeks now. The first one is ten minutes late, but with no one to pick up, the second one gets ahead of schedule. And with "Guide a Ride" the schedule is up there for all to see.
You should hear the cursing at the bus stop. People are getting really mad. Today, one B69 didn't show and the second was ten minutes late. The third got ahead of schedule. Where I go off I saw a guy in a suit chasing after two B69s (and not catching them) cursing at the top of his lungs.
Both the B69 and the B75 were PCC trolley routes (the former being
McDonald-Vanderbilt and the latter being Smith-Coney Island). PCC
service 50 years ago was very much better than bus service today.
The B69 went bus on August 12, 1950; the B75 lingered on until
February 7, 1951. The PCC's then went to McDonald and Church
Avenues. Both routes ended service on Halloween, 1956.
The B69 is one of the slowest buses in Bklyn as far as scheduling wise.... A bus being late on that route is like throwing gas into the fire......
The B69 is one of the slowest buses in Bklyn as far as scheduling wise.... A bus being late on that route is like throwing gas into the fire......
B46M Limited
About a week ago, I saw a couple of Westchester Bee Line RTS Westbound on Route 80 in New Jersey vicinity of Whippany. I couldn't quite make out the numbers (was going in opposite direction) but I think both were in the 100 series (139 might have been one of them.) These buses were clearly 40 feet.
They seemed to have some of their markings removed. So I'm guessing they have been retired from Bee Line service.
Does anyone know if all the Bee Line RTS have been retired?
If the two forty footers I saw were bought up by some one else or another agency - does anyone know the new owner?
Today saw #522 on the Q76 line in queens. It had a large orange LED destination sign on the front and side. Does any other units come with this or should I assume that it was installed after the delivery?
I received my copy from Amazon.com. It's pretty good with lots of photos, but not too many from NYCTA (and NYCDOT) unfortunately.
Wayne
The author is a very good friend of mine. The GM bus book has been in the works for a few years now; he was having trouble finding a publisher that would work with him.
I also did some editing of the text a couple years ago in one of its slightly earlier versions. My feelings at the time was that the author leaned heavily on west coast and Chicago properties, and did not even begin to cover any of the east coast stuff or other oddities. The author was born and raised in Chicago, and then spent many years on the west coast. He was employed by San Francisco Municipal Railway for a number of years. He now lives in the S.F. bay area and is a very active member of the Pacific Bus Museum.
Fifty years ago, the Chicago Transit Authority had a big assortment
of buses from all 6 builders. Their assignments were GM's on the
South Side, Twins on the North Side, ACF-Brills on the West Side,
plus handfuls of Macks, Fords, and Whites.
You're absolutely right about the large assortment of buses on the Chicago Transit Authority roster in the early '50s. However, buses of each make were pretty well scattered throughout the system. (The only exceptions: There were few, if any, Twins on the South Side. The Macks, of which there were only about 20, operated out of a West Side barn.)
Before Chicago received additional trolleybuses for the Irving Park
and Belmont lines in 1948, its trolleybus assignments had St.Louis
coaches on Montrose and ACF-Brills on 51st-55th Streets.
If anyone lives near a outlet mall that has a KB Toy Outlet, check and see if they are clearing out any Corgi Busses or Trolleys. I was in one near Saginaw/Flint Mich, Las Vegas and Ontario Calif, and they were selling St Louis PCC and some various old look busses under $20.00. I cleaned up
they are also sold at woodbury common near monroe ny . the problem is they only have one or two models but the price is right. go to toy liquidators.
I have one I got at Woodbury Commons.
Corgi Yellowcoach 743.
One good place to purchase Corgi PCC cars and buses is at Trainland
at Lynbrook, Long Island.
I was a suit for a day yesterday & represented my firm at a meeting with DOT & CES (Central Elect. Shop = folks that maintain all the turnstiles & TA fareboxes).
I arrived just in time to catch a MCI at College Point. It was one of our refirbushed ones, they did a nice job, the engine purred, my only complaint was that my reading light was out. The sun was tinting the Manhattan skyline orange as we rode up the big hill on the LIE. We wisked by all those bumper to bumper guys & gails in our special lane, and after only a short delay at the tolls booth were on our way again.
At 6th Ave I made my way to the N/R. The first train in was a hippo, it was big, it was scarey so I let it go without me. My reward was a Slant 40, which I enjoyed to Canal St. where I was forced to take a R hippo to Whitehall. Our meeting was at the DOTs office there. Since I arrived a little early (the parking garage that the others normally use was closed, so they were all late :-) I was able to sit where I could view the ferry comming and going. It was a long two hour meeting, but it is always nice to have a chance to talk with my colleagues from the other "privates".
When it was over I headed for the Lex & caught a #4 R-62 to Grand Central. The ride was pleasent enough accept it being a full width cab there was not rail buff window :-( At Grand Central I spent part of my lunch hour at the TA Museum store, then after a quick bite at Micky Ds it was back to the Lex. I did the 2 for 1 MC deal at the MVM (put in your expired MC & get it plus a new one back). I caught a #6 R-46 to 59th then walked to 57th & 3rd to catch our bus. At 59th & 3rd there is still a nice Apple adv. that's been there several months now, it fratures Lucy & Dessi (Lucy's on the West wall, Dessi's on the South one ... if you stand in the right spot you can see them kissing).
Within minutes a Orion V QM-2 arrived. The driver was a little horny, i.e. he liked to tap the horn a lot. This didn't effect a lovely ride over the 59th Street bridge down Norther Blvd. to College Point. Since no Q25 was comming down Linden I briskly walked the last 4 blocks back to the office. The cool sunny afternoon was just right for such a walk.
P.S. I hope my boss doesn't see this because you're not supose to enjoy a business trip !
Mr t__:^)
6 trains are R62A's...... R46 are on the E,F,G,R lines.......
B46M Limited
if you noticed i changed my name to the bus that runs in my area like every one else-that and to avoid confusion with steve in L.A.To be honest there are not that many R-62A's on the 6 any more -it is mostly R-33's and the R-36's that aren't on the Flushing line(cars 9490-9560)as for the E train -they only use one R-46 on there -it is mostly R-32's
I did notice a lot of Red Birds on the Lex, but I got a Bombardier #6 so that would make it a R62A. The R was a R-68, I think, as I have trouble figuring out the different hippos, probally because I don't care much for them, vs. R32/R38. The 62A was also a full width cab which I thought was only the case for the Kawaskis (R-62). Is the key that one has a front window on the left vs. a wall ?
Mr t__:^)
The 75 foot cars ARE NOT ALL Hippos. Some of them are good cars. The crap is the R-68 (and the R-44, but that's not a Hippo). The car on the R was the R-46, built by Pullman Standard and has a beige/woodgrain interior with LCD displays, so does the R-44. The R-68 has a silver interior with rollsigns.
R-44: St. Louis Car, rebuilt by NYCTA 207 St & Coney Island 1989-1991
R-46: Pullman Standard, rebuilt by Morrison Knudsen of Hornell, NY 1989-1991
R-68: Westinghouse Amrail Corporation (Jeumont-Schneider or Alsthom, Westinghouse and another company)
R-68A: Kawasaki (1988-89)
RUE4the train.
R-68 on the R??? Thurston, are you sure it wasn't a R-46??? Maybe that's something new because most R-68 are on the D line (Concourse yard) and the rest are at Coney Island yards while Jamaica yard has R-32 and all 752 R-46's.
Wayne
Well the B46 does not run in the neighborhood that I live in now....
I used to live in Crown Heights from birth till about 1 and a 1/2 years ago when I moved to ENY. When I first used BusTalk I was known as B14#4987Mike. But since I will always call Crown Heights my home, I used B46#8456Mike. I could a couple of names like:
B14#4987Mike
B15#4988Mike
B20#9169Mike
B20#4986Mike
B83#4985Mike
You get the point............
B46M Limited
I see from several posts that GBL is part of the "Cooper Companies". About 20 years ago I was working for a CPA firm and was assigned to check the return of an individual. He had listed among his dividends received an amount from Green Bus Lines, Inc. When questioned how he obtained the stock, he told me that his dad was one of the origingal jitney drivers that had helped organize the company in the 30's. Is GBL still independent? If not, when was it taken over?
I have always thought (perhaps incorrectly) that Jamaica Buses were a subsidiary of GBL. Am I or was I ever correct ???
The Cooper family owns the franchise to serveral of the 7 "privates":
Green, Command, Jamaica, Triboro. There are presidents at each of the companies, and a Cooper office at one of the two Green depots. The main Cooper was Burt who died at 77 in 1997. His brother Jerry is at Jamaica. Burt was a lawyer by trade and involved in politics in Westchester.
The origin of Green Bus Lines goes back to the 30's when Green turned over seven cross-town Manhattan routes to Fifth Ave. Coach/New York Omnibus. It was granted Zone C in Queens (Southwest/Rockaways). One of the brothers of a principal of Green also operated the Ave. B & East Broadway line until 1980 when it was taken over by TA, but not MaBSTOA !
Thnaks to various BusTalkers for making me so knowledgeable on this.
Mr t__:^)
Wasn't there a William Cooper also??? Also - in addition to those privates I believe they own Varsity too.
Wayne
They do own Varsity-and as GBL it's self ,in Janurary when the franchise meetings come up -They should be dissolved and either taking over by the city or maybe QS would like those routes -At least Queens Surface is close to par with the city in running buses in Queens
Varsity used to be very big in the school bus business.
William Cooper, don't know, might have been Burt's father. That would be in the 80s, so maybe someone else can clarify.
I also don't know how/when the Cooper's got control of the five companies. I'ld be happy to receive a private e-mail if you don't want to discuss it here.
Mr t__:^)
In my teen years a close friend (also a bus/rail fan) used to ride Green Bus Lines quite often. He knew nearly every driver there. That's when I also drove a bus for the first time - which was a brand new Grumman 870 - what a blast that was. They used to always speak of a Mr. Cooper and once during a strike the media mentioned a William Cooper.
Thanks Thurston!
Wayne
William Cooper was the father of Burt Cooper. He passed away several years ago. The Cooper Family are the Majority Owners Of Green Bus Lines Inc. Green Bus Lines Inc is the parent company of Command Bus Company Inc. The Cooper Family are the Majority Owners of Triboro Coach Corp. and Jamaica Buses Inc. with differernt partners in each company.
I believe the Coopers are the sole owners of Varsity Coach Corporation which is the school bus company.
I also believe but I am not sure they owned Schenck Transportaion prior to the creation of MSBA which is now Long Island Bus
Maybe the best thing is if the MTA took over all the Privates in Queens
Maybe or maybe not. However, in 1952 the Board of Transportation
once planned to sell its Manhattan bus routes to Surface Transit or
Avenue B and East Broadway, its Flushing routes to Queens-Nassau
Transit, its Jamaica routes to Jamaica Bus Lines, and all Brooklyn
routes (including the 3 remaining PCC routes and all 7 trolleybus
routes) to Green Bus Lines. Therefore, the Board would retain
only the Staten Island bus routes.
Where did you hear this?
I have found the information from a Headway Recorder magazine
from either November or December, 1952.
From the 1st Annual Report - New York City Transit Authority (1953-54), page 2:
"The Authority is also required, not later than July 1, 1955, to prepare a plan for the sale and transfer of omnibus facilities under its jurisdiction to private ownership, the proceeds of such sale or transfer to be paid to the City."
When the Mill Basin community was built up, the new Pioneer Bus
Company (now Command Bus) started the B-100 bus route from the
new communtiy to the Kings Highway station of the BMT Brighton
Line. In addition, Command Bus Lines' current BM-2 Canarsie and
BM-3 Kings Bay express bus routes were originally bid for by the
NYCTA as the B-30X and B-32X express bus routes respectively when
they went to Pioneer in 1972.
Do you have any more of Command's history?
Command & Pioneer are not the same company. Oct. 1972 Command took over the franchised routes of Pioneer Bus Co. When the Copper family got involved I don't know.
Mr t__:^)
Pioneer Bus Company gave up their franchise in June 1979. Command Bus Company was formed in Oct. 1979. The MTA could not take over the routes because the Brooklyn Division was TWU and Pioneer drivers were
ATU.
I know the city tried to have Queens/Steinway Transit and Domenico Bus take over the routes but they turned them down because of the union.
I'm sorry I did know it was Oct. 1979, guess I got distracted with the post about B-30x & B-32x award in 1972.
There's a lot of QSC history I'm not up on yet, but it is true that QSC has Local 100 TWU, so probally didn't want ATU folks. Not that that by itself is a insurmontable obstacle, i.e. one local would just have to swap equal numbers of members with the other & AFL/CIO would OK it ... I've seen it done before. This is more friendly then a raid where you have to get everyone to vote to switch. As an old Teamster I know something about that too.
Mr t__:^)
NYCMTA taking over all the private companies in queens would be a good idea expect for one thing: they'd either have to get rid of a few routes, or order new buses. Remember, the 1988 MCI Classics aren't accessible to wheelchairs, and NYCMTA has 100% ADA-COMPLIANT buses.
They could combine routes also like Q 21/53. Eliminated Q 35 and others
Q35 is a very convinient route. If it is to be eliminated, another route that goes to KP will have to be extended. Like the B41.
That has been suggested quite often. They could extend the B 2 over to Rockaway, which would give a faster connection to the city on the Brighton, rather then then the IRT
WOW! That was just what I was about to say, because the B2 connects to a subway, and is short enough to prevent problems with route length. I only mentioned the 41 because I thought I could maintain the IRT connection.
I agree. A # of people use that route to get KP or to the IRT instead of taking the S to the A and going around the boro......
B46M Limited
Maybe this bus can run out of Command as was previously suggested? The new B101
B46M Limited.........
B135 would prevent confusion with the new number.
You think? I thought that B101 or even B99 would be bettter.........
B46M Limited
If we combine the B-2 and the Q-35, they can call it the RI-235. RI=Royal Island.
There are so many opinions on the Q 35. This show in fact that people do indead care about this route. As I have mention way back the TA should consider extending service on the either the 41,9,or 46 Now in case anyone out there did not know the 9 and 46n used to serve in the same area as the Q35 during the summer only. Ths 9 would terminate at flatbush/alton place other times until it was later on extended to KP. I f the ta does get involved which is highly unlikely since the Ta is not too willing to take too many risks, this most they might do is have some tpe of rush hour only service to and from the rockaways. this time around the likely candidate is the B41 Limited. Maybe the 9 or 0r 46 but that is doubtful. The 2 would be as well but this would not allow that irt connection that many rockaway riders truly rely on. I guess this is my opinion since i live in canarsie and if you live any where between avenue k /e108th and beyond your best bet is a command bus and although they are convient and comfortable, it ain't worth wiating in the cold weather for one.
They would renumber the 2 to the 32 which ran the Marine Park Route in the 50s. People who ride it from Glenwood Road to Kings Plaza will transfer, and there is more frequent service on the 41. And as someone stated it is a faster connection to the city on the D/Q from Kings Highway to the city then the IRT
If and when the MTA will take over the Q-35 they would leave the route alone with only two possible changes:
Renumber to B-32 the old route
Allow the buses to pick up and discharge passengers between Ave U and Nostrand Ave instead of the current close door policy
To combine it with the B-2 will not be feasible if the MTA also takes over the B-100 from Command as the B2 and the B100 will be combined into one route.
The B-9 extenstion is a poor subway connection and the B-41 is too long already.
Who says that the MTA will take over my route?
It was suggested that the MTA take over the DOT routes of Command,Green,Jamaica and Triboro.
It could happen depending on the TWU/TA Labor contract. If the privates can not afford the increases in labor costs then go out of business then the MTA will have to take them over
Having the city take over the routes has been talked about for at least 15 years.At one time the city was talking about building a central garage to mantain all the private compaine buses. In a way with the city dot buying buses and giving them to the co they have taken over the routes. Personaly i dont think the city will do much of anything more than take the routes that no one wants after the bidding next year, if that much.
heard through a driver at Triboro Coach last week that Coach USA was interested in taking over Triboro's lines if the contract falls through. That would be interesting, cause ive seen Gruman,RTS and MCI buses on Coach USA lines with their label on them.
I have seen man artics and neoplan tranists also in coach usa colors. In fl at disney world.
I hope Coach USA is not allowed to take over. I have a very close friend who works for one of the sightseeing companies, which I will not name, that was taken over by Coach USA. Coach USA/Canada aim is to get as many companies in the charter bus operations and have a Monolopy, and have higher rates. As to the local transit and regular bus lines they have taken over, they are the last now to get any advertising money or new busses. Coach USA will take advantage of the NYDOT to buy them new busses, which they could afford, if not, they will run the old ones into the ground, cut service etc. The city should take over the Private companies, as some one said, since the city pays for the new busses anyway
Coach USA took over a company which I won't name, which was the company my camp used for transportation. So they had to switch companies.
Oh God Forbid.
As many riders that use the Q35, why eliminate it?
Please don't say to combine it with either the B41 or B46. If that was done, with all of the traffic jams and heavy passenger traffic that those two route have to endure, the service to Rockaway would be far worse than it is now.
At least with the current route, it doesn't half to deal with a lot of thick street traffic.
Better idea. Combine the Q35 bus route with the B9, which both
run to Kings Plaza. This would provide direct service from Bay
Ridge to the Rockaways.
This would be a nightmarishly long route. Better to merge the B2 and Q35.
I think that is a good idea. Besides, I feel that the "D" and the "Q" trains will get you to Manhattan a lot faster than the "2" and the "5" trains.
I suggested they combine it with the B-2 AVE R and run service to the Brighton Line, since most of their traffic is South of Ave U
Maybe I'm just speaking from a very personal prespective, but I think it's good for the City NOT to have all it's eggs in one basket. In the business World competition is always better then a monopoly.
Granted sometimes it becomes politics with the Mayor vs. the MTA Board, but if the goal is service to the public why not maintain a structure that encourges inovation, efficiency & in general I can do it better/cheeper then you ?
Mr t__:^)
What happened to the remanents of SB after the transit routes were taken over by the MTA. They had a charter bus operation in the early 80's using Eagles. What happened to the equipment??? Didn't they also have a school bus operation???
A buddy who worked in the area, tells me that the yard on Jericho Turnpike is still vacant after a lot of years. Probably enviromental problems that built up over the years make it a hard property to sell.
When MSBA took over the Nassau County privates in the 1970's, Schenck retained its newest air-conditioned fishbowls for some reason. I believe they were numbered in the 700's. I suspect they used them for charters for awhile. I don't believe they lasted more than about 5 years.
In February of 1980 I went on a JHS class trip to the state capital, and it was Schenck tours (that's what I remember the name from). It was a GM-4509, [or what ever the later over-the-road version of the fishbowl model# was].
The airport work was taken over by Clausen bus now NY Airbus owned by Harran. Major fuel leaks at there old yard making it hard to sell. Also heard some roumors of other problems at the end.
During the spring of 1949, the Board of Transportation tried to
purchase Jamaica Bus Lines, but Green Bus Lines bought that company
instead.
If Green Bus Lines and Jamaica Bus are tghe same ownership, why don t they combine them as one company, the same as the others like Steinway and Queens Surface did etc?
And they also own my company!*
* I do not work, nor am in any way affiliated with any transit company.
Steinway & Queens Transit combined staff/operations out of one depot, so becomming one company was a natural event.
Mr t__:^)
Green Bus Lines did not purchase Jamaica Bus. The Cooper family purchased control of Jamaica Bus. The Cooper Family at that time were the majority owners of Green.
The only bus company that Green Bus Lines controls is Command Bus
which it owns.
The Cooper family owns the companys with different partners in both Triboro and Jamica
What is a little funny is that many meetings that I attend this guy shows up, sometimes alone, sometimes with representitives from the other four, but you get the feeling that HE represents the four. Not in everything, just on the topic I'm involved with.
This reminds me of a SubTalk conversation about DBA, i.e. Doing Business As. Just when you think the TA is now NYCT, with out the "A" you find that they're still the same company just DBA NYCT.
I don't think I want to get any more confused about Cooper vs. the four "privates" that they have something to do with. I think it was me who started this in the first place ... sorry about that.
Mr t__:^)
Its possible that the person may represent all 4 companies even though the ownership is sepearate.
Many years ago I worked for a company which had several major partners. Of the 3 partners 1 only owned my company,the second one had an interest in my company and part of another company. The third person had a majority ownership in both companies and owned still a third company.
This happens a lot in business in small private operations and yes
Green,Command,Triboro and Jamacica are considered small compared to a GM or Ford.
There seems to be a group of folks that live in a "Green" depot that do things for all of the four. We've also seen them swap equipment between them, so there seems to be a close relationship there.
Mr t__:^)
To Mr. T and other Bus-Talkers. A quick primer about accounting and IRS terminology.
When a corporation owns more than 50% of another corporation then they are known as "Parent / Subsidiary Corporation or Corporations" Since a corporation can own more than one subsidiary.
If an individual or group of individuals own 50% or more of several corporations (and the corporations do not own each other) then there is a "Brother / Sister Corporation or Corporations".
It appears from previous posts that GBL is the "parent" of Command and is a "Brother / Sister" to TCC and Jamaica because of the "common control" of the Coopers.
I found a QM07 transfer this AM, was issued at 6:25 by bus 382.
First that would be an Express bus that can't issue a Transfer, second I don't see any QM-7 listed in "Express Bus Map".
So, is it an error ? .... Just curious ...
Mr t__:^)
I believe the QM7 is one of the QM1/1A variations.
It was probally the driver getting the "Destination Sign Code" number confused with the Route #, i.e. QM-1A Ext vs. 6071.
Mr t__:^)
It is a variation of the QM1A North Shore Towers Run
Steve
I was in Flushing today and saw a Queens Surface Bus northbound leaving the bus stop at Kissena Blvd and Main street, with a practically unreadable front destination sign, and on the side sign the sign said "Emergency, please contact police immediately".
it was one of their old RTS's. I could only make out a destination of Flushing.
Was there an emergency on the bus (there were no cops around the bus at all, no one seemed to notice)?
If it was not an emergency, this sign defect could cause a major false alarm! It was only the side sign that gave the "emergency" message.
The rear sign was not functioning at all.
I noticed the same John, but on a MTA bus in Manhattan.
When the bus stopped to change operator, the forward operator was late so the bus was shut down and we all had to get off.When the new operator appeared as soon as he started the engine the destination displayed "EMEERGENCY CALL POLICE" before the operator keyed in the correct destination and route number.
Maybe this emergency sign is used incase a bus is stolen or the operator has an onboard problem and needs help discreetly.
Here in London England all London buses have two way radios and an emergency alarm which flashes all lights and sounds a warning alarm.
(we still use roller blinds! so no dot matrix).
Can any other bustalkers expand on this EMERGENCY" display!
Regards
Rob :^)
(and well done NY Yankees)
The RTSs dating back to the 1980s had an emergency switch that was easily tripped. Of course, after many false alarms, NYPD simply ignored the message. The switch was also dificult to reset. Newer buses have switches that are difficult to trip inadvertantly and are easier to reset. We also have the "Help, My Bus Is Being Held By Terrorists" button, which is preferable to the emergency switch.
Will Denzell Washington and Bruce Willis come to try to rescue the hostages if they use the terrorist switch?
About the "Help, my bus is being stolen by terrorisits", is that a joke??
I once saw a NYCMTA bus at a terminal just waiting around, and the sign had the "emergency, call 911" or whatever it says, and on the back it said "COPS" (and then it flashed) "911" (then back to COPS, etc etc)
This week, 995 left Hudson and went to an unnamed depot in The Bronx. I am, of course, depressed.
Did you ever get to drive the bus? I remember about 2 months ago, you said you really liked that bus. Was there a special emergency switch for Driver is Hijacking this Bus until his demand to permanently assigned to 995 is met?
Is this depot in the Bronx owned by the MTA? If not, who is it owned by?
995 is either at GH or KB.
MM2000
Kingsbridge may be in the Bronx division, but it isn't in the Bronx! (and obviously not in Kingsbridge, therefore). Amsterdam and Hale are also in Manhattan, while being in the Bronx division.
I bet you Novabus #995 went to Gun Hill or Kingsbridge Depot ethier one of them. Im from the bronx & i will find out this week if i see Novabus #995 on the road. Don't forget Amsterdam & Mother Hale Depot are Bronx Division not Manhattan Division.
Peace Out
David "Meaney" Justiniano
I had the distinct pleasure of riding on 995 on the M14 with Alan driving during his last week on the M14 before he switched to the M32. (We met DaShawn for a few seconds on one of the runs.) I don't think Alan was as successful getting Miss 995 on the M32 as he had been on the M14.
There is no M32.
Sorry about that - I meant the Q32.
NUHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
::Breaks down crying::
I'm disappointed that I won't be seeing 995 on the M11, M14 or M23 anymore. I had hoped to ride on it while it was in my neighborhood. I keep hoping that this demo bus will result in an order before long. Maybe there will be Nova low floors in Chelsea after all at some future time!
995 Won't go to Amterdam or Mother Hale becouse they are both 100% Orion busses. They will go to eather KB or GH.
Just because the depots are all Orions doesn't mean a test bus won't go there. It's a test, they try it in a variety of areas. I remember when they tested the Orion on Staten Island (92000 I believe was the number) I saw it the following week in Manhattan.
-Hank
nyct test buses . the orion was 81990 originally 1990 when it debuted in eny on the b25. neoplan artic 81992 and neoplan suburban 81993. mci 81994. the last three tested in yukon. 81992 also tested at 126 st. neoplan rejected for political reasons. the number indicated the model year of the bus.
995 was at KB only on Monday cause it was on BX36. Today, Nov 2, 995 was spotted back home operating out of Pier on the Q32. Why did 995 go up to KB just for 1 day?
MM2000
I saw it on the M11 today out of Hudson, and my subject line was going to be EXACTLY THE SAME. Creepy.